Boom, what's up fam Anthony and dream John's dinner today co-founder and CEO of the red man group founder 21 studios 21 convention 22 convention 21 university and 10,000 of the things today. I've on with me the show Well, first of all it's episode 134 the red man group Surviving the new woke order and I'll be joined today by alumni speakers of the 21 convention and returning guests to the red man group Piero San Giorgio when saying that correctly and Mr. Jack Donovan and most likely, but we'll see Richard Grannon From Spartan life coach. So without further ado, please. Let me welcome back to the show. Mr. Piero and Jack Donovan. What's up boys? Hello Thanks for coming back on the show appreciate both your opportunities and time today attention Were you both based out of right now? What's going on in the world geographically for you both? In Switzerland right now.  Yeah Cool, cool. When are they sad about here in Utah? Nice. Yeah, we're talking about it. It's like Florida. Yeah. Yeah, one of the last free states. Yeah Yeah, so what's been going on? What's new for both of you? Well, actually before we get into what's new for both of you So the not everyone in the show is gonna know you guys Number one is Jack Donovan is a prolific manager author with the manager classic the way of men Becoming a barbarian all available on Amazon by the way more complete beast which is also a 21 convention speech Very similar to the book. Check it out. And Of course is all new book fire in the dark men and gods. I just got this very excited to start reading it I did actually read a couple chapters so far. I skipped right to George Washington, which I'm also on the George Washington kick Piero is also a prolific author. He's the number one survivalist Type or a genre author in all of Europe. I think one of his first books has survived economic collapse It's a very big book very thick. I've had this since 2019 when I met Piero and he spoke at 21 convention He's also the author of several other books Including CBRN which focuses and details the coronavirus other types of collapses outside of economic collapse and Many of the books here a lot of which have been translated Piero also translates through one of its businesses books like Jack Donovan's And how the language is like French and they can Italian and many of the many other things So make sure to check that out on Amazon all their books. They're very rich and detailed and full of knowledge So now that the author super duper author introduction and being an author is hard men I'm really respected both you do that at such at such depth to and length these books are massive These are like tomes especially put together What have you both been up to now in the new year of 2021 our new woke order that we're entering Piero to start with you. Well, as you know when you when you talk about economic collapse You have to take into account the social collapse and social collapse starts with Fundamental decadence on Everything that you are supposed to believe politics even science Certainly morals everything collapses in dying empires and we are living the death of the American Empire today and Not surprisingly just like in Byzantium before just like in Rome The last years or decades see a massive collapse of everything that holds Society together except the economy which is the last thing that eventually falls down like a like a castle of cards So I'm not surprised to see this in fact I didn't have to predict it but I mentioned it in my in all my books for the last decade that We would eventually see collapsing structures Which paradoxally will try to strengthen themselves through some sort of dictatorial tendencies which which is also quite funny in a way because dictatorial tendency in a woke world and With much weak and much weaker military and police Than what Rome could do for example Well makes it for a very strange paradox in the sense that you have military veterans For example in America being mostly conservative Facing a dictatorship of woke pink-haired Progressive people and I'm not really sure if the latter are really figuring out or understanding the the kind of Catastrophe they are going through towards Nonetheless the question remains for people like like you and me and most of our audience is what can you do and and I think that People like Jack Donovan indeed and many others have a very important parts and I hope myself as well I have important parts of the puzzle which is not just about You know beans bullets and gold and all that Classical survivalist thing that you want to have to gain autonomy to gain resilience to have This ability to withstand the collapse of Government of the economy and so on There is a very important part which is inside your head how you think about yourself how you Believe that because your freedom is inside your head. It's not outside the real freedom is inside And this is where the progressives are frustrated because they can't get in your head Or at least they try but if you are strong, there's no way you can get in unless you're sent to a reeducation camps I was going to say that it's really interesting. You mentioned that because that's what it feels like They're always trying to get in your head and control how you think by controlling how you speak Controlling what access of information you have and knowledge Banning books like we're seeing burning books digitally Movie again like gone with the wind was you know modified by HBO all kinds of really weird orwellian You know brave new world type stuff, but the end of it. It's all a method of controlling how you think, right? Yes, that's because that's what utilitarian regimes want indeed. You mentioned Orwell 1984 the the name of the game is to enter in your head and control how you think and obviously you would do it through language changes through cultural changes and You know the the reality of the world is that no one has ever managed to change how Mormons Think and and you have religions for example in Jack's new books I'm eager to read it But certainly he shows how religions a religious thought is so important to keep a culture look at how Jewish culture survived through 2,000 years of Exodus and fine and diaspora and finally managed to recreate its country through many means of influence and physical action and and funding and you know, we have to take a lot of Learning from from all of these examples through history But indeed the end of the end game of these sick people who want to control others Because probably they have inability to control their own Pulsations and thoughts and and and Whoever whatever motivates them to be who they are probably they have a psychological problem I'm sure Richard Brandon can tell us a lot about that when you join us But certainly this this willingness is very important, but the good news is that There's only one thing that protects you and it's a very easy thing that protects you from People trying to enter your mind and it's one simple word which is no Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately and how in America in particular as well throughout the West one of Maybe the core things we've lost is the ability to say no At every level like it, you know in the monastery talk about this with women You know if you don't know how to say no You're gonna have problems with women and on top of that if you learn how to say no women really really love that It drives them wild.  It's not just one thing It's not just like politics. It's not just culture. It's not just language. It's not just movies It's not just TV. It's it feels like everything is under attack Masculinity femininity women men at least women who want to be women and enjoy being women You know things like that gender is under attack. It feels like there's almost nothing not under attack That's important in the West. Do you agree with that and can you expand on like the totality of what we're seeing the comprehensiveness? Yes, it is everything as you mentioned is under attack and it's under attack worldwide obviously in some More traditional cultures like in the Muslim world For example, it would be longer for this attack to enter, but it is nonetheless going on even there it is taking longer in Civilizations like China or perhaps in Russia, but it is still this attack is ongoing The the reason I called my first book it survived the economic collapse and not just survive Something else is that all these sorts of attacks on reality because there is a biological reality about being a man being a woman There is a biological reality about how you are performant how you are Efficient in a company for example or in business when you destroy that reality you you don't replace it with something else that is efficient or profitable or Productive you destroy What enables the wealth of the world that itself makes possible that sort of weird Non-productive thought patterns and decadence Therefore they are destroying the whole the what makes themselves possible. And of course, this is a system that when it collapses Auto eliminates all these work Progressive and and all this goes away. I can believe me. There were not progressive people in Rome after it fell There were no progressive people after Constantinople's after it fell There were not many work and progressive people after Soviet Union collapse or when Yugoslavia fell into civil war You don't have time for such things. You have to survive every day because This is the way of you know, some American authors wrote about the forced turning and there are Fundamental laws, maybe they're not laws of physics, but there are laws of sociology of anthropology Which in fact Dr. Lohan speaks very well in the way of man What makes a society function is strong Man united in a tribe And of course they will bring women along because women eventually want to be around people men who are successful who provide comfort and who provide the civilization and Well, when the rest is but is barbarian and I say this in the in the way Romans would would say barbarians in the sense that In the more colloquial sense of the term when you have barbaric practices collapsing in a collapsing society All the smart and all the smart people they will just drop All the all these nonsense and will go back to where you can create something So I in fact, I'm very hopeful. In fact, I'm extremely enthusiastic In a in a paradoxical way of the world we're entering because it was Inevitable that it would happen. It's inevitable now that it will collapse for sure. There's no way out It may not collapse everywhere, of course I don't see russia collapsing unless there's a nuclear war. I don't see more traditional societies collapse They will probably just revert back to a more primitive state, but it won't change much for them I do however see western europe and north america On the brink of a massive massive collapse and massive depopulation. This is this is inevitable inevitable consequence And so This is why we need to prepare ourselves physically, of course, and this is not new, you know Prepping movement the survivalists Have done this for years. I didn't bring anything new in that regard However, preparing yourself mentally preparing yourself with a strategy Preparing yourself with a group of people around you and indeed way of the way of man and jack donovan's work Is is paramount to read on this on how you create a tribe or at least You get yourself in the process of doing that as soon as you can how you create a community of man Because this is what is going to to survive This is what is going to withstand all civilizations growth go through these cycles of creation destruction And what remains is strong group of men and whether they are born by friendship and and skills or whether they're born bound by Powerful beliefs even if we may consider some religious beliefs backward doesn't matter If it's a plus for your survival in an evolutionary sense, it's good. So I'm I'm in fact quite hopeful that evolution is back And it's going to kick us in the ass pretty strong And it will be tough for the weekend for the not unprepared But what can I tell you this has been the way of mankind or womankind? I don't know what's the political term now. We have a woman a woman, brother Well, uh, it's gonna go back to normal very very quickly The only thing is that it's not going to be super super nice going to be painful, but It's through pain that we learn it's through hardships that we grow and It's inevitable. So we we just need to get prepared at least that's my point of view Yeah, it's uh, it's a dark prophecy, but I I can't disagree in this. These are my exact same Not only thoughts but things I've been thinking about in terms of probability and possibilities and I don't think you're wrong Um, you could be I guess there's a slim chance, but I don't think so. I think this is where things are heading Um, I hope I'm hoping for the best, you know for America, um, my country I love it very much, but I'm also preparing for the worst because I think that's a very real possibility In fact, it's probably the most likely at this point Um, we've been talking with pierre here for a while jack. Let's move on to you a little bit We've heard a lot about you from pierre.  Yeah, I'm thinking about all kinds of quotes from your books as he's talking Like Darth Vader wasn't a pussy, you know, no And also too, you know when the riots hit last year, uh, I immediately thought well, especially when covid hit But then again when the riots hit, I mean, I'm always thinking like way of men tribes Even just very simple racial divisions how people group up by just physical appearances and racial backgrounds You saw the uh, the italians kind of getting together in their in their neighborhoods To defend their neighborhoods with guns and you know baseball bats, whatever You saw that with the porto rican's are, you know, you see this in the news and shit when it was going down I'm like, wow jack jack was not only right. You're seeing it in real time Like on cnn and fox and all these, you know, mainstream news just These people are grouping up in their suburban neighborhood. These people are grouping up in their italian restaurant neighborhood Um, anyway, though, let's let's take a step back and house 2021 treating jack donovan where your thoughts at um, let's just Opening opening statements. Yeah.  It's uh Obviously those people have a you know, you and the italians get together and the neighborhoods get together It's like they have some kind of structure already they they have some kind of affinity together and uh what's interest is that part of this whole idea of what they're doing with the woke culture and uh, just general disorientation redefining words and so forth is to take away all your pillars of meaning Like all the all the central points the the access monday like this is what we actually believe this is truth And if they take away all the pillars like taking away the foundation of a house There's nothing there It won't stand and so that's what they're doing And it doesn't matter that they're arguing a lot of people get caught up in people's arguments like Well, that doesn't make any sense It doesn't have to and that's that's the great thing so many of these things It's like it's obvious that it doesn't make any sense and I think that they know that they're lying Uh, you know with so many issues whether it's about, you know, the virus or whether it's about the uh, uh, you know You know, I read like the acou said the other day like They're Myth like men men and women are not a binary thing every day like like they don't have special characteristics attached to them That is a myth Well, no, that's a lie and they know that it's a lie Like that's do you think that's the that's the exact point in some cases that they're deliberately just trying to screw it Going to head over. Yeah. Yeah.   It's total mind control Like we're if we take away every pillar of meaning that you have Well, if if everything I believe might not be right, what is right? Who will tell me the government will You know, and that's that's what they're doing. I mean it so it doesn't matter It's like the arguments don't matter anything that they're putting out there doesn't matter because it's not sincere It's not honest. I mean you could see that now and it's really gross and really weird and naked In the way that it's coming out in the press and all that like that thing with time magazine I'm sure you saw just put out of like they're admitting that there was a cabal of people to fortify the fortify the election to fortify democracy that are so that Americans didn't actually elect the person that they wanted to elect They wanted to make sure that that didn't happen by fortifying democracy, you know, like so they're gonna change everything that you believe in and I think that And I saw I've seen another thing the another idea that they're like Here's the article that you're referring to on time magazine. This is a real thing. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that was that was pretty amazing. That was pretty ballsy like Yeah, everything is to say call everybody a conspiracy theorist right now And then they're just admitting that there's a conspiracy like which is pretty pretty amazing Uh, and I think one of the other things that I've seen is you know, like there's a move obviously to bring in more immigrants as fast as possible and whatever Um And that's you saw that happen in europe as well I mean that that has been a thing in europe for a long time And it's not that immigrants are bad or good or people from other places are bad or good Uh, but you have a whole group of people that are really deeply invested in the american identity And that's a problem You know, like that's a problem for people who aren't which is apparently the people who are running the country Uh, and obviously technology and so forth.  I expect to be able to own guns guns all my life That's that's something that I've always as a cornerstone of what america is And I like well, I guess we'll just bring a whole bunch of people who don't have those expectations And like screw the votes off and whatever and it so it's Anything that you it becomes a core belief That is a constant in your life is something that they want to take away And so yeah, you know, then then once they've taken that away then Who's to say everything is relative and they can keep changing the rules and moving the goalposts and doing whatever they want You know like 15 days six months two years Yeah, you know like whatever it just becomes whatever they say at that point and that seems to be what what's going on right now and uh In it's always been going on but it's just going on at a really fast pace in a really obvious way Yeah, it almost feels like the pace is so rapid. It's almost like a I don't know how to describe it, but a uh as a Uh descriptor, but it's like blitzkrieg It it reminds me of the Germans did and in their war the beginning of world war two against france and this other You know belgium holland, you know shit like that They just absolutely, you know, they engaged in war at a pace that had never been seen before And this is one of the reasons they were so victorious so massively at the beginning of world war two They just took everyone by shock even major nations like france Just ran right up fucking over them And that's what it feels like and uh culturally and politically and in every way that's non kinetic or non physical In some ways, it's physical obviously with the lockdowns and the masks, but You know as of yet, uh, you know, there's not open There's not open genocide and gulags just just yet, you know, however close we are to that it's It's no and I wonder if they'll keep they'll keep like Working the throttle on that because because they can't go too much too fast On certain things because yeah Like they only had so long to do the lockdowns in america They can they can mess with the uk for as long as they want because what are they going to do?  Everybody's done.   Got a good run, uh, but uh, no, I mean So I think in america, I think they had to really they have to be a little bit careful without before they push and also There is as as pierra mentioned in america. You do have 20 years worth of uh armed veterans Who are generally conservative and do believe in the founding principles and right now About half of them are like This is not okay. And about half of them are like I still believe in the flag. I still believe in america And they're like you're trying to talk themselves back into it. I watched a couple guys who I thought I knew Flip the second the election happened. I mean the inauguration happened like all right president biden I'm like really And uh, but it's taking guys all different levels of How many how many buttons you're gonna push on them before they're like this is no longer america so The you know and then that's when the government runs into a problem because those are the guys that they have to worry about And so as long as those guys are still bought in At least on some level like hey, we can work this out Yep, um They're good, but uh If they push it too far too fast They they're you know, like I said they as much as they're threatening it like If you try to disarm america forcibly tomorrow You're looking at like afghanistan Like that that's not gonna happen. You know That's not real You know like that's So they they're saying it but they're just gonna do a whole lot of little measures like different like little Registrations and making things more expensive and doing all kinds of things like that because they they can't just go to door and be like Hey bud, give me your guns because a lot of police officers are gonna get shot like that Do they're gonna do it they're pushing in that direction there for sure I mean we've never seen this level of aggression Like at the end of the day obama never really did much with guns and he even expanded gun rights ironically in very limited ways like in national parks Uh, but the whole gun scare with that never happened with uh, you know President select biden This seems to be a real thing uh that they're pushing very super aggressively in a way that we've never really seen Not even the 90s with the the assault weapon ban thing even that Even that had an expiration on it and it went away in 2004 permanently, right? And that's like not what we're seeing are we seeing like You know a third time of obama and steroids Uh, like a lot of steroids So yeah, well, it's like, you know, I have kind of said to a whole bunch of people It's like they've just spent the entire last year calling you a pussy Basically, like that's that's what they're doing is they're looking at american dudes be like we think you're pussy we don't think you're gonna do it and uh And uh, they're they're they're daring they're daring them at this point You know, it's like they need to have a reason And obviously another thing that they're shutting down to you know, and this is getting subversive But um, another another thing they're doing is Is they're shutting down all the ways of communication So you can't really trust any kind of communication so you can't organize in any way that's Feasible. Yeah, so that's an actual that's a really big block on that because i'm telling guys I think that's gonna be my newsletter this week because Dude still think their little telegram groups are like secure and they can go in and run their mouths about whatever thing I'm like, that's not real You know, like that's You know, like which one of you how well do you know all the guys in your telegram group was one of them work for the government?  Anthony because I'm gonna keep your eye on thing There was something about the nevada trying to introduce a law that say technology companies can create state like many states Yeah, local they can create local governments. Yeah, it's Yeah, yeah, it's cyberpunk, you know, like it's it's extremely creepy to say at least Yeah, yeah, yeah at a scale that we've never really seen before not that I mean, I guess in the old days you had kind of what mining towns that kind of owned There was a big but that was a long time ago and we're seeing now a resurgence though that Uh, well, I mean that is what they do they go to a place and they create a whole campus And you know and then they they have to have housing for all the tech people They want to import and so they have to build that anyway So they they're they're basically doing community building to start with so that they can make their company work But yeah to have them like then create their own governments like housed by the company Is is is really weird and corrupt company store kind of stuff.  I mean facebook is talking about this for a while. So they're gonna own where you live They're gonna own literally the local government. They're gonna own the currency.    Don't leave your own. That's okay. I like video games, you know Like that's I like video games. Can my cheetos be delivered?  Yeah, you can just keep doing that Yeah, it was actually a movie that came out too. Uh, just recently songbird. I found it It was like a major production. I'm surprised I missed it And it's all about kind of like you pair. I was talking about both, you know, the lockdowns They basically the whole movie is based on covet never ending It just keeps mutating getting more lethal more aggressive more, you know, spreading and stuff And so they're on like week, uh Week 200 and something of lockdown Like and it's all based in la and california. It's really it seems pretty well done Martial laws are very realistic. Yeah, it does unfortunately Yeah, it sounds it sounds realistic except that there's no like major pushback, which doesn't seem that part doesn't seem realistic, but Right, we'll we'll see. I mean based on what we've seen And of course for those for those read my book on on pandemics You know, there's a big part in cb in cbrn, which is about that We meant, you know, we discussed that last time mutations usually never go Actually never not just usually they never go for more deadly because it makes no sense Um mutations go to least less deadly perhaps more more contagious but much less deadly in fact What we're seeing today Is is that all of this? One year long crisis Is basically a crisis that has been either manufactured or Um Bumbled to bigger proportion by incompetence. I'm I'm can't say which because I don't have proof but certainly certainly This death rate that we now can calculate after one year. Remember we we had a we had a chat Exactly almost a month a year ago in march where we were not sure what would be the death rate and hence this is why We were kind of accepting that we would need to be isolated and and and and cautious Because the data from china was like 20 death rate and that was like shocking Now after a year we we have data for one year So one year is 0.05 on average in western countries where people mingle together a lot in in in public Um transports and in in uh in Cramped areas at work and so on which is not the case in say in africa or or or in tropical countries for example So we are the worst Case scenarios and the death rate has been officially 0.05 roughly on average which you have to reduce because obviously they countered as death from this uh chinese monkey thing I we cannot even say the word otherwise we get shut down but yeah, yeah, yeah you know the mother of a friend died from a heart attack two weeks ago and uh They were upset because they put covet on the death certificates and they asked why and they say oh the rule is that If you are if you have been positive from in the last months Whatever you die for gets treated as covet and so we have Increased the number of deaths artificially by probably a factor of what five ten and yet it's still super low So this is nothing and we're we should be happy that it wasn't The black death fortunately and it makes sense that it wasn't so we have to we have to keep in mind Even a month a year ago we were discussing about not being stressed and not be fearful about this We were we have to be cautious and try to understand but now the the the ball is into a different Game and this game is how many of our freedoms and how many of our Rights are we going to lose and my answer is It doesn't matter Because the thing is going to collapse anyway and and again You are not living and I'm sure unfortunately we can regret that yes But unfortunately, we don't live As americans as europeans as french as swiss we are kind Our own people with our families and our friends The the reality of our lives is much smaller in reality than it was when you were feeling part like in After pearl harbor, let's say you were part of a big country at war with uh against an aggression Now you just feel you your your lover your your your your family your group of friends and that's what matters And because everything else you have no control on so we have to learn to be we are really this is very serious we have to learn um to be stoics and to To really understand that we should Care only of the things that matter to us directly and not not spend too much time because the machine That is trying to get a hold on all these superficial things Is doomed anyway, and it's going to crash bringing it down with with it So many other people who will be emotionally attached to either the new system Which is going to die or the old system which is already dead So we have to take care of ourselves of our caring group of people not not more at least I know it sounds defeatist for many, but I think it's very optimistic in fact Well, I to to bounce off that I you know, I take to gold pill that a little bit One of the things that I've been talking about because that that all may happen I think what's important though is because that's been the tendency at least for american men I can't speak for men more worldwide But that has been the tendency for american men is to just Actually, they let their women take over In many cases and I saw that when I was you know, I worked on the recall campaign in Oregon I was just I got to do something And and I saw everybody was who was really running the and this is republicans Everybody was really running things for women They were doing all the legwork and the dudes were just sitting at home grumbling about stuff being mad And and that that's where I think american men failed and maybe men around the world I I can't really speak to that but that's is that They needed to step up and manage their communities and they let the worst people do it Instead they let the hear it take the worst people you can possibly Imagine and let them run things for you and then see how that's going to work out And we we've seen how it's going to work out And I think that it's time whether or not, you know, this government falls or this collapses or that I think It would be really what I hope to see is a lot more of these men who are waking up and realizing that Man, they've been asleep at the wheel For a long time to to step up and and take leadership roles in their communities Not not like okay, everybody's not going to go out and run for senator and be you know, like whatever But in their communities, I think is where that matters anyway Um, you know your your local governments and so forth. It's like We could use a lot more men who have the right kind of views and have the the best attitudes Involved in the government in some way. So when it starts to fall apart They have access to all those things or whatever, you know, it's like we don't have to go full mad max You know, there's there's a lot of different things and who knows Parts of the system that could be saved You know, they could be involved in managing those and there's so many guys who have the capabilities to do that And I see guys, I mean, I don't have that. I'm a weirdo. I don't have the right pieces of that puzzle to get elected to anything but There are guys who do I and and a lot of their guys who are watching this who do right now and then they are guys who have families they have Pretty reasonable sustainably like Solid lifestyles they've been successful and maybe that's time for them to like get involved and You know, just run for town council or get into the system of power And then then you know all the cops and then you you have some kind of Attachment to all this kind of thing rather than just sitting at your home on your couch watching the news Grumbling and polishing your guns because that's a lot of dudes and those dudes need to step up and take leadership roles I think right now All right, you know, uh, did they quit uh, I missed a lot of that my internet cut out for some reason And I'm glad the show carried on I'm back They sound like it ended with local government But I want to take a step back because I both of you have been kind of hitting on it Especially pure I mentioned he talked about fear and stress and uh, you know, psychologically, uh, winning So I wanted to introduce to the show mr. Richard granon I think I'd be an expert on fear and stress Hello chap. Good to see you all good to see you all. Um, I I heard what pierro said Um, uh, as it as it relates to the fear and stress element, but also what jack was saying with the abrogation of responsibility where there are Effectively fewer men in the room and fewer adults in the room not that they're not physically present But they're not mentally and emotionally present and there does seem to be a correlation there with um The psychological attitude that somebody else is going to do this and this is a I believe this is modern Because as I'm looking more and more American history and French history and the revolutions are sort of think I'm looking at the history and what people didn't I'm thinking who the bloody hell did these people think they were? well They thought that they were Living life. They didn't see their lives as being Uh, oh history is done.  There's nobody's coming. There's no hyper intelligent alien race zooming across the universe now That's gonna go. Oh, we see you're struggling here guys. We're gonna. No, it's just us I thought the government was coming to save us.  There's special qualities that can help us DNN is coming to help us all they're gonna tell us the real news They're gonna tell us the real information And you just have to obey obey obey obey and all will be well get onto the cattle car There's good things at the other end of this ride So I think I think the systemic Issues that pierro talks about a lot and what jack was just referring to there They tie in together many humans across the chain of communication and across the chains of interaction Have to sort of go hands off in order for us to end it end up in this mess We're so wealthy. We're so well educated. We're so informed and look at what we're doing with it.  You would think I would bang that drum. It's actually codependency. It's the It's the um the put we are the abusers. So we're just waiting for the next shitty things to unfold. It's uh It's it's lamentable. It's it's you know, there's really no excuse for this now I saw some of our other speakers actually you mentioned abuse jack murphy one of the author of democrat the deplorable tweeting yesterday in a big county as that You know, especially with a time magazine article and then just basically rubbing the abuse in our face I feel like we're in an abusive relationship and this is the exact language of an abuser If it was a bpd chick or if you were a chick with a you know abuse of husband This is the exact language and methodology and gaslighting and this covert Uh gaslighting and that uh all the pressure flips and everything that's all yeah Yeah, I love you. I love you. It's okay.  I love you, baby It's for your own good. It's for your own good, you know 500 years ago Precisely 500 years ago. There was a french humanist called la brisee He wrote a small book which i'm sure is translated in english and everyone should read it's very small Very easy to read. It's called this course on if I translated literally transverse on the voluntary Which is not snm. It's about why populations Agree to be submitted to Absolute power which at the time was obviously the teams and it is true that There is a codependency relationship because First of all, you feel moral to be submissed submitted because you are the little guy so There is a there is a plus in your in your Value system, especially today There is what niche would call, you know, the slave mentality element where you want to say well after all I feel I feel Ennobled to be The poor the poor person the poor submissive man But there is also the fact that being submitted is easy because you forfeit your responsibility to do anything And therefore you lead you let the leaders the state usually the governments the kings whatever To work out your life for you and it's super easy It's much easier to live as a slave than to be a responsible free man This is very common in it in the world in the world the romans knew that and wrote extensively about it The greeks knew that and even other society where freedom is Individual freedom is frowned upon like in asia or or in the middle east Well They realize and they write about the fact that being free and independent is a tough job It's difficult and then there is also the fact that you know, you have this bliss of Today technology allows you to be in your house to have porn to have a food delivered to you You have a little check every month but You know, eventually the the the difference is that The modern slave in the world where you have ai and robotics is actually not needed So the the question is how long will it be tolerated for this codependency to exist because the power trip of the Powerful people who run the world and it's not a conspiracy. It's just obvious Well, eventually we will run down And there is always the risk that they Twist to the more bloodthirsty trip which happened In history a lot when you look at how Stalinist russia Soviet union in fact emerged how nazi germany emerged. There is a point where suddenly You'd go from i like people to be under my thumb to How about i kill as many as i can and there is this this this tendency which is worrisome And we're seeing that in america right now. We're seeing uh, you know Conservatives trump supporters, you know, whatever everybody's being labeled now a domestic terrorist There is a news anchor on msnbc just yesterday or the day before a major news anchor I've seen a thousand times and she was actually discussing using drone strikes to kill americans On american soil for alleged domestic terrorism Well, what's the Very shortly what you have to watch for is the moment the They dehumanize you by treating you by comparing you like an animal the day they say that you're an infidel a pig A rat They are The new york times did that they compared republicans to rats It was very similar to german propaganda and they did this like a month ago And be worried Yeah, I am i'm i'm definitely prepping and worried man. I've been prepping harder I've been into prepping and survivalism, especially thanks to dmitri orlov one of your friends A great author since about 2010 2011 And i'm really glad i got into it then because it's now especially since last year it's really Everything i learned other every preparation i did put me in a good position And then i was able to double down on all that and triple down on that As things keep getting it's worse and worse and worse Into our new woke order of hell Yeah, woke order. That's good. I like that. That's the title of the episode actually is reviving the new woke order These woke progressive people they're not red guards. They're not often as physically and mentally As I said in the very beginning Just saying no Might do a lot Yeah, i'm all about it man. I really been like I mentioned earlier in the show I've really been thinking about that because the mana sphere is my first major introduction to No as a concept in a tool I never really heard that before and then obviously studying psychology, especially personality disorders and richard granin's work It all clicked together like no no no no It's almost like the more you can say no in your personal life the better it's going to get And the more that a culture can say no the better it's going to get to Yeah, I honestly this has been a big thing for me this past year because I'm very libertarian in nature generally I'm like live and let live.    I'm like, I'll hang out with whatever group of people. I don't care what they believe Whatever and uh, this is the year that I was like no No, they'd like no, like if it In america, I mean, obviously europe is the political system is very different, but america was very it was very specifically like I lived in a democrat state. We were locked down for a really long time It was a really bad thing as far as I'm concerned if you're democrat you are actually Voting to enslave me Now like and I'm not cool with that like like I'm not cool with that like you are actually working to enslave me and enabling that system and you're complicit it and And like I've made a joke.  So that's fine. But like that's beyond that There's no one in my circle that I'm gonna support or hang out with or whatever I don't have time to be democrats. They'll be at my house You know like what's interesting too is as you're mentioning this jack is that there is legitimate conflict in the democratic party Just like those in the republican party in the republican party in america You see the maga people the patriots versus these rhinos these neoconservatives You see that same phenomenon the democrats, but it's like Completely in the opposite direction. They're internal conflict is between neoliberals like biden and these super wokes super aggressive communists So it's like they have their own legitimate conflict the bernie sanders But it's like veering towards mal whereas on the right you see it veering towards trump in 1776 George washington thompson jefferson founding fathers So it's like It's kind of cool to see that they have their own conflict, but then it's like super negative Whereas on the right you have a much healthier conflict going on Uh for but you know, it's not perfect right now, but this kind of came to mind as you're mentioning that Because democrats are not all the same some of them are extremely fucked up Yeah, yeah I like I like where you went with that Over really fucked up, but uh, yeah, I mean it's just I do think that's the thing is uh The I guess conservatives or whatever. I don't even like that word really, but uh in in america Uh, they're they've had nice guy syndrome Where they're like, you know like oh well they moved in they have nice restaurants, you know like whatever And I like they changed our town a little bit that's cool And like and they just keep kind of you're like being like that's okay Let's be we'll just be nice And they don't want to say anything that's going to be aggressive because they generally they're well adjusted decent people A lot of them like you go to small towns and whatever they just want to be friendly They don't want to have to fight with you or whatever but now it's veered off to like oh my wife's beating me. That's okay Like oh, yeah It's time to say no like it's time to say like, yeah, no That I went through restaurants and I'm like if you did like made certain Most ever was making at a certain time and I was like, yeah, I'm not going to that restaurant Yeah, I'm not going to that restaurant But you know, I've started doing that like I'm not I mean obviously there's things I have to support because I can't I have no choice I mean I I use apple products, you know, like I there's things that I can't get away from but uh you know other things if if I can if I can make a choice To to not support a business or a person or whatever who's affiliated in that way. I'm not going to do it And I'm not going to apologize about it And yeah, I'll be like, yeah, sorry Not cool. Yeah, I've loved it. Jack. I've watched your newsletter and your blog for a while now I just I do that for almost every speaker that I can And then just you know luck with the draw I sometimes see more of one guy than another But I really love the way even you're thinking and your your assertiveness and you're even uh philosophic aggression to write and be pronounced and assertive It's awesome More men need to do that and more authors and you're really you're leading the way in that in that sense in many ways with writing Especially guys like Richard I don't want to do that video and you know peros kind of a mix Richard, let's go back to you.  Yeah, uh, don't some psychologists view narcissism as a form of codependency or what's What's the connection between those two? um, yeah, technically Technically speaking, narcissism is codependency. So it's kind of a we have this misnomer where we say The victim is a codependent and the narcissist is is therefore not but narcissism is codependency Narcists and codependents function so well together because their pathologies mirror one another. So they work hand in glove It's why it's very difficult to leave A narcissistic abuse of relationship and even if you weren't a codependent before you started the relationship you will be by the end of it and then To that extent we we have the same functions the codependents have the same Functions as narcissists we operate from a false self the way narcissists do we live a false narrative and it is explained perfectly by Nietzsche's Concept that you mentioned earlier of the the slave morality, which is We view our supplication and our submission as In sort of righteous spiritual terms like this is the right thing to do To bring it back to politics But not really because what I would claim is what we're seeing now. These are not political issues You can't say anymore. It's left versus right democrat versus republican. This is more like a cult Wokeism is a cult. It's a mind virus. I speak as somebody who's who's on the left. I'm left of center. I'm libertare Libertarian leaning leftist and I just say no, this is this is insanity. This and it's a kind of codependent narcissism that's playing out and how does that function? It's boundaryless because they have no ego. They have no Discrete ego that keeps anything out and they have no discrete ego that keeps anything in Which is why they'll never say no to others and they never say no to themselves now as jack said before That's cool.  I don't hate crime That's when uh, you know, you would start prepping because The only answer to that. Um, and I don't want to say anything insightful, but being a realist Only violence can come next you're you're in my domain Telling me how I have to operate. I have to say certain words. I have to address a certain way I I'm they're even trying I've I've even been told who I have to find sexually attractive now I've had people tell me like they're trying to tell me I uh The ethnicities I have to find attractive. They're telling me I have to find transgender people attract I'm not saying that to you homie why you leave me alone. Why do you care? That's private This is uh, this is really interesting, uh, richard. I've never thought about it that way I'm assuming you've said this before in your videos, but I missed it because there's like thousands which I love Flood the internet like the sound of my own voice Yeah, fuck. Yeah But basically what you're saying is that since they're kind of egoless or they're they're boundaryless internally that it's spreading externally Yes, so so further and further into culture and even to your own physical even to another person's mind and their personal boundaries People don't even know they're strangers, right? This this this particular interpretation of of marxism communism I'll do the air quotes thing because these people have never read marx They don't understand marx and they don't really understand but let's leave that But if you take the flavor of marxism that the t-shirt you wear the shake of our t-shirt And you take the the style You think that's what he said and you think that's what communism is It's flattened everything. It's all hierarchy is bad all structure is bad So flatten everything and everything will be okay Which is a hysterical Pathological worldview. That's why it ends in such terrible violence every time because nobody Passes the purity test you create an orthodoxy that looks like that Everybody passes the sorry fails the purity test. That's what happened with the kameer rouge. You could argue That's what happened in in stylings camp. You you could argue that everywhere. This is played out practically I was gonna say its own tale Piero was mentioning this earlier, uh, the soviet union and not only the fall But I was thinking about the rise and in my understanding of history. Maybe someone can speak on it if they're more educated on it Uh, the hardcore communists from early on the leninus and whatever they were eventually executed They had the true believers in leninism and communism and marxism. They were one of the first ones to go that the true believers dead Uh, can you guys is that uh, accurate and do you see a parallels? Piero, is that right? Sure for sure when you have um ideology being used to seize power is that people who are only in it for the power eventually get rid of the The people who are in for the ideology because they are threat to their own total control This is why you always have very powerful people. In fact, the the bolshevik revolution of 1917 What they call october revolution, which is which is in november in fact because of the the canada thing They to seize power. They had to use criminality They had to use stugs of which stalin was the most powerful Able to organize They used because obviously the the proficient of professional military was for the the tar for the emperor And and and therefore didn't want to to part to participate into that. So they used the masses Uh on cadre to be to be organized by by stugs by pure violent people out of the jail Out of prisons not unlike some movement with three letters, which I'm not even mentioning Uh, that is that has happened over the last year in the u.s. But it's like california And and so and so basically they use the thugs the pure powerful and you can imagine that these people have no ideologies They just want a very short term advantages And eventually the people who consolidate so then then it splits into two possibilities Historically, even you go with the ideologues the s.a for nazi germany the command rouge The red guards in in maoist china Or the people who want to keep power they eliminate the ideologues nazi germany hitler eliminated the heads of the s.a mao Well, actually the the followers of mao the successors of mao takes you he he controlled and and and disbanded the red guards the styling eventually destroyed the bolshevik trot skits That pushed for worldwide revolution because he thought it was much better to keep one country under his his boot And under his control and do what he wanted with it. So pragmatic power always trumps ideology And usually does this in the process with millions and millions of bodies And and this is what if possible we would like to avoid but Again, is it in under our power? I think we we think which is under our power is to control ourselves And if there's many of us to do it. Yes, then we do change things, but it has to start with you I don't believe so much into evangelizing about I mean you you do that mr. President you do that you you go into But this is by example, this is by teaching not forcing people Yeah, I actually wanted to ask jack a question here on this Because I think I know what you're referring to pierre. I remember you I really appreciate it till you watched I think my entire speech in poland The man's sphere which is kind of outlining what the man's sphere is where it's been where it's going And I mentioned that I think only masculinity can save the world Certainly masculinity is primarily I think what built america and it's what built the west So jack can masculinity save america? Can it rebuild america? Can it rebuild the west? What are your thoughts on masculinity as a as a driving fundamental force? Well, I mean obviously it could because it's it's it's it's built and destroyed everything that thus far I mean, that's that's really the only thing we have You know like med one group of men sweep in one other group prevent sweep out It's just about different changing power structures and But yeah, I mean, I think I think you posted maybe in a couple other people Like the chinese are trying to make them men more masculine now. Oh, yeah You know, which is probably just a pr thing whatever, you know, like who cares who knows if that's real but because it came from china, but You know, I mean obviously If there's going to be hard times Then you're going to need to rely on men because all those as pierro would agree I'm sure all the all this progressive woke ism and and the feminism and everything they go away and uh, you know everything's like blowjobs for beans and you know, like It's you know, like that You know anymore, you know, and so like yeah, I mean you need men who realize that they need to become that guy and uh take steps To do that and obviously that's why there's such a hard push on Making men more passive and we've seen this for decades, you know, like make men cry more make them more passive make Like don't work. That was a couple days ago from the un what men need to do. They need to cry more than you to Yeah, that's why the rest of the thing it's like No, we want you to be as weak as possible because if you're not that's going to be problematic And so masculinity really is the only thing that can stand against this Well, I want to move on to richard in a second, but before I do jack. What is the relation between masculinity and totalitarian regimes? Uh, so like communism nazism marxism all this perhaps. What is the basic connection that men should understand about that?  I get to protect my community I get to do these things and that's very much ingrained in the american personality And that and has been what men have fought for me. What would men fight for they fight for self-determination Um, you know, like to say like hey, you guys aren't ruling us the way we want to run ourselves I mean, and that's what a lot of wars are really about, you know, at least ideologically Like we want to we want to control our own destiny And so I think that that's that's one of the things that men have to watch out for like, what are they telling you? Are they selling you?   I'm like, this is not you're just going to be trailer trash This is not the way to go but uh, this is not it like there's no there's no there there And uh, and then someone sent me a screenshot from a telegram group, which is another reason why they're not secure And I was like we've had this discussion. I can't be friends with you if you're going to go that way I had to cut ties from him completely.  You know Like I can have that and and so like Guys like that. I mean they're scared. They see like a lot of like, uh, things happening in the world right now. They're like, uh, they feel Like the world's closing in on them And yeah, they're looking for a scapegoat. They're looking for a way out They're looking where like they're looking for the light at the end tunnel and who's going to take how we're going to get there And so but if that's not the light and that's not the way And and so there are a lot of people that are a lot of guys are going to get sucked into that. I mean this All the anti-racist stuff last year created more racism than than existed previously And I mean that's that that's hard to deny Uh, I mean I watched some of their newsletters and because I'm still on some mailing lists And I'm like, oh they raised $150,000 this year. They're having a great year You know, like, yeah, I mean that there are a lot of these, you know Like organizations that we're dying that are now like, you know, because you're seeing videos of, you know racial violence in the streets and if you if you don't have a way to filter that if you're if you're filtering it through Telegram groups of dudes posting memes and shit, you know, like then you get in a situation where you start to That starts to become your only reality And uh, you know, but that's I just don't think that's a viable reality. And so it's it's unfortunate But that yeah, there's going to be a traction to that that that's that's rising It seems like natural media wants Which and I'm like, that's what pisses me off.  Well, it's multi. It's really multi racial whiteness. So, you know, yeah, I know Yeah, the Chinese you're white now the Asians are considered white. I mean, that's that's crazy And that's a total friendship, right? That's like you're black. You're white if you do disagree with us You're really white even though you're black, you know, like that's what they're doing A quick one Yeah, just quickly what's what's one of the strategies of power is to you know, divide and conquer is Putting conflict in a horizontal way. Let's have poor people fight each other So that you can keep controlling the means of production if I use a Marxist term But certainly certainly this is a common strategy as well of whoever Holds power to make sure that it can hold it a bit a little bit longer, especially when everyone knows that The the the long-term prospects are not very good And usually this happens when the elites that run the show Eventually plan and escape Trying to take the loot with them to some other countries they will lose in the future But or at least they hope so it's going to be hard in china I think but certainly in the west the the looting as is going on the corruption is just Obvious and so you instead of wanting vertical conflict, which is what revolutionary Conflicts are about You want to make sure you do horizontal horizontal horizontalized therefore you have to put men against women different races against each other different groups and whatever and and the more this conflict goes on and Even better if it's online rather than in the streets This is this is good for the power Now it's still not going to change the bottom line and at the end results in my opinion But it is clearly as jack just said completely organized and manipulated and Yeah, it's part of the it's part of the game. We don't want to be playing and we don't want to be in Yeah I want to take a quick commercial break based on a comment. Someone left us a minute ago First of all, oh is that set up? Well, here we go. Let's do this This show is sponsored by 21 university the richard granon cptsd masterclass healing from complex trauma as a man It's an amazing course available at 21 university Filmed by 21 studios, but owned by richard granon We offer here at the the university. It's our first premium course It's not included with the regular membership, but it is super badass It's got nine modules all of which feature richard granon And then some of them at the end. He includes certain guests like jack donovan Sean smith george bruno and alexander aj cortez That's an amazing class. It's on sale right now for 199 down from 299 You should check it out at 21 university.com. You can just go there and support Both the red man group 21 studios and richard granon by clicking new course with a little light bulb on it It's super awesome And also someone asked that richard granon had a youtube channel.  He has another channel as well. It's richard granon philosophy. I think and he's also on instagram and So make sure you check them out And commercial break and we'll continue richard granon So richard, uh, you know, you didn't give out my only fans. Yeah, really. That's where the money. That's where the money's I was gonna make that joke. I stopped myself I was gonna do it Back from our Hey, I mean but all pictures for seven dollars a month's a profitable business ask American women It's capitalism comedy. What do you want? Yeah, yeah, exactly There's a point that jack made and a point the piano made. Um, I didn't drink enough coffee today I'm just going to try and address them both real real quick. Um, whilst before they slip away like fish Um, the thing of saying there's no there there Thank you for saying that I am going to borrow that I will credit you. Um, we are in the midst of I really do see this as like a psychological virus a mental virus God sad, I believe is writing or has written a book About this our memes actually infecting people's minds and this utopianism And I think this is called uh, just interject the book is called the parasitic mind I think is what you're referring to perfect name perfect name for it It's coming from all sides of of the political spectrum because we are panicking We're watching something to disintegrate and it's creating a panic And just to tag that on to what pierro said, I just sat here reflecting and thinking god, isn't it strange for a You know a sort of a proto marxist revolution how little vertical Uh discourse there is we're not going after the elites here. It's all working class versus working class civilian versus cop black versus white man versus woman And I just had that thought who's running this mainly bourgeoisie level educated White people that are the motor behind wokeism in the majority if we're talking numbers And I'm thinking you're not the heroes of the mark You'd be the strangest heroes of a marxist revolution ever if it turned out to be you guys And you're you know, these these are the ones complaining about their oppression You're educators and you live in the richest country in the world What where is your oppression? And I'd never actually thought about it until you mentioned the horizontal revolution versus but the vertical revolution There really is a huge glaring effort here to keep it horizontal. It is so evil It's so deceptive and it's such a i'm not going to defend marxism But it's it's a complete misuse of the ideology itself Which is which is why I would say there's really isn't politics. This is kind of a mass hysteria That has more to do with the psychology of the witch hunts Which I've been spending more time reviewing recently and those witch hunts They they absolutely correlated with shitty times Bad crops disease pandemics things not going well Somebody must be to blame it's it's the darkest elements of the Jungian shadow That have not been processed that are coming out as a collective That are possessing people and it doesn't matter whether you view that spiritually or psychologically possession is possession. They they cease to People are not talking anymore and they're not talking about other humans as humans. We're already there. We're already there at the point of as pierro said the danger moment is When we dehumanize one another, I think we just passed that I think I was watching america the american media and I was like Okay, about two months ago. We passed that rubicon. Yeah, I don't see I'm not optimistic now that there won't be very serious violence in america because The dehumanization process has already become and this already is a witch hunt I'll just I'll stop here a friend of mine sent me an instagram video where A young social media influencer was being Badged by people and the video was post online where they were saying admit that you're a republican Say that you're a republican just confess that you're a republican and I'm like It's all kids. It's all like Student age kids and I'm like, do you guys not know about the witch trials? Do you not know that you sound like the spanish inquisition?  Sorry, mate. I don't even know if you had a chance to ask me a question No, I don't care. It's pure Just a comment on what you on what you said is that first of all When people had more culture, let's say a century ago when school were better It was much harder to manipulate people. It was still possible Germany was the most educated country in the world and they got into the mess. We we we learned so well at school but the The other so so the more we deseducate people the least the less we have historical perspective and knowledge The more we get we get scammed The second point is that usually when you have that kind of conflict that is starting and sometimes goes into a real conflict with with war with civil war with with ethnic cleansing and things like that which is also pretty common in history The ancient hebrus and as it's actually told in the in Leviticus in the bible They had this concept of the sacrificial. Is it not the sacrificial? It's goat. They used to have the scapegoat the scapegoat that's the word in English and French philosopher and scientist renais jirard has Fantastic books, which I'm sure in English as well That theorize how society is basically put all the blame all the problems that they have indeed in different difficult times on Some group it can be a witch. It can be a religious minority. It can be something And that group gets held from from from the whole society and this is a way for society To cleanse itself from all the bad things they did one another and to do it Through to one through expulsion Remember how the Indians the Asians were expelled from Uganda in 1972 for example How obviously the French were expelled from Algeria in 1962 how Jews were expelled from every country they were in because they are the usual suspects for whatever That time that happens, you know, they get the blame And and and it doesn't it doesn't matter if it's true. It's not true. It does happen And what is strange today is that they're trying there the system seems to be in the government However, you call it seems to put the blame on the majority of people And and this for me is a fundamental mistake from their side in the sense that You cannot have a minority or an alliance of small minorities ruling over or Cleansing the majority Agreed. That's really too much. Yeah, the majority is mostly male and with testosterone and weapons And this is a recipe of of of disaster of of of incredible proportions For the minorities who are playing in this game. Okay, and I tell As whoever wants to listen, you know, be careful with playing the race card because you are 10% of the people be careful playing the sex card when you have 100% of the testosterone Be careful playing the the the the the the lgbt alphabet card when you're not exactly Super fit and healthy and and more and more able Be very careful what you wish for because you may get it and it's not going to play the way you think it's going to play this is not a video game and It may be part that's the first time I live through the death of a civilization myself. So I don't know It could well be that this is the first in history Yeah, it's been that's a really interesting point that you make up here on the majority and how they're being persecuted in America and stuff Men and especially masculine men and you know, white people in general now that consider the devil Uh in America, which is extremely bizarre Uh for 10,000 different reasons that it's just stupid Uh, what does also come to mind those that I've been, you know, I'll be like you guys looking at history Even more as of late In particular, you know, communist revolutions always have a basically they come right after during a civil war So russia china vietnam civil war civil war civil war communism In america, we have something like that occurring. I think I think it's maybe more of a hybrid That's like a debatable point between the rise of nazi germany and the rise of communism And none of these people are even educated in the shit, right? It's all just like I was actually I wanted to mention too You know, uh, richard was mentioning education earlier I discovered a couple days ago. Maybe a week or two ago now not not too long ago In america a lot of children are no longer taught how to write cursive So that that was I mean this is clown worlds. That's not that surprising I guess, but it's still like a wait what So I grew up in the 90s learning how to write, you know, print and cursive english language letters and words and sentences Children are now so dumbed down. They don't even know how to write their own language And one of the styles and that was just shocking to me I even heard some boomer. Uh, this guy used to know growing up I was just happened to be visiting in my hometown and he was kind of rationalizing that oh They had to make room for digital stuff blah blah blah.  My last three girlfriends were all from Ex-communist countries. I stayed in those it's it's a lived reality for me I can see by the locks on people's faces what it did For you living by the way, what country I'm in check. I'm in Czech Republic now And I was in Romania and before that was in Bosnia So what Bosnia wasn't wasn't communist, but it was it was uh No, it was it was it was it was communist for a while, right? Yugoslavia was kind of Yugoslavian-styled communism Right, so they did their own they did their own they were pretty they were cool communists Yeah, and so I've also been to Albania multiple places like that and it's not a theory for me It's not an idea. I didn't live through it But I can see these countries where you see beautiful culture music history food language and then it's cut It's traumatically cut and people freeze the whole nation freezes and they get this kind of this soulless frightened look because Even if they weren't raised in an area where if you said the wrong word you you and your family could be imprisoned Their parents and their grandparents were and so the patterns of behavior and speech come down So for example in the Czech Republic Czech people speak very quietly and they do not talk about their private lives because In generations they can point to over there who are still alive There are people who they know who said the wrong things and them and their whole families were imprisoned So does this theory issue as pierrot said, you know, it's not a video game The the utopianism can only survive When people are dumb and immature because when you grow up and you've seen the world you're like well, okay That's a load of horseshit the story I've been fed about how the world works or could work is nonsense But you don't get that without real world experience and I think this is being Moted by people who just don't have any real world experience.  There's still some truth to it though And I think there's a lot there with old school masculinity, obviously and these things are very good I'm literally wearing a hat that says a hundred percent toxic masculinity But I know that the people saying that shit to me they have They haven't traveled the world. They haven't even traveled to a single other country And who's I think I have something to be delivered if you guys hear any money in the background Some probiotics I bought off amazon. Sorry guys.   I've traveled to you know, poland and stuff. I've traveled like 25 26 countries Throughout my 20s and 30s and like I know what that there's other parts of the world I've been to sweden. I've been to the uk. I've been to germany.  You're not even You don't even have a beginning of awareness of it.   I can see the world's turning for jack here It is that is a little bit of a function of americans. I think a little bit because Well that but I mean just generally a bit with not traveling I mean because uh, I mean our country's so big Yeah, you know and like for you know, if you live in europe going to the next country is like me going to nevada You know, like that's you know, like we were traveling but like in the same distance You know, but uh, but it does create some isolation and that's what I said like the friend that I cut off one of the things that Yeah, me when we were discussing this guy We're like, man, I wish he had left his hometown a little just a few times He needed to have a few other experiences with other kind of people and he wouldn't be so easily swayed with With what he's reading, you know, because he's just reading and that's all he gets and he's stuck in this And he's in this small town, which is pretty nice But like, you know, it's And he's just not getting a lot of other information and I think that that's that is true you're getting a lot of people like you said who just haven't They haven't had enough experience with other people to realize I mean like, you know, I imagine it's the same You have people who are in san francisco who? You know hate everyone in the middle of the country and they've never been there Yep, you know like those people are very nice generally and like I said too nice and that's the problem But the the thing is that they they hate those people Based on this external information, but they don't really have an experience with it You know and the same thing there's like country people were like new york city You know and and they've never been anywhere and and so yeah, I think I've been I've traveled around I've lived in a bunch of places in america And so yeah, I feel like I benefit from having that experience Of giving in different places and seeing how things really are versus how you think they are You know that's I never liked traveling that much because I was like I'd rather move somewhere Um because you know, it's like I think a lot of americans the because the ones who have had travel And you know who are wealthy and a lot of the you know Wealthy progressives are you know are very well traveled and they would go to they could go to all these countries That's because they're going to Saudi Arabia getting uh, you know the sheiks are taking shits on them for money Well, there's that that's probably just strippers, but like the uh I mean the uh, the uh That's called being a model today. That's being the models Well, probably yeah, but I mean like those flows people But yeah, you know, okay, you go to switzerland a week for a week to resort town and it's wonderful Everything there was what must be wonderful and the same thing, you know, you're going to go to a resort You're going to even they go to london or something like that and you have this great experience When they go to all the fashionable stores they go to fashionable restaurants and they have this experience They're like things are so much better there, you know, but they don't have a real perception of what's happening in the country as a whole You know, they're just like, uh, you know, they went and had a nice time and a nice vacation And therefore they think that that's a wonderful place, you know, and they don't they don't see the underbelly of anything or what's going on This is an infant This is I think to paraphrase. I think richard handline You know a man has to be many things has to be a poet a warrior a lover Uh a scholar a monk We have to be to be complete so many things and this is hard work And the school system doesn't one doesn't push for that the the rulers want, you know, um, I could paraphrase one of your fantastic Humorist of the 70s The name escapes me who said, you know, you want trained you want to train people just enough so that they can operate the machine But not too much so that they can start to question And the system and think by then sense you must Think by yourself and this is what um This is what you you need to astrive in life and usually you get to that point around 40 around 50 hence putting the the voting The voting age should be probably 40 45 not not But and I think society would With a voting age to be 45, but roughly It takes effort and and this is what I believe we guy we all of us and many others who watch us we astrive We we want to teach our children and our peers But not our enemies not not people we don't care about we want to keep, you know, our tribes educated Uh well trained for everything and Yeah, it's hard. Life has never and and today's world is so easy We have the power of gods we can travel we can have Warm water heating in winter Cool in the summer. I mean we have lives that Come terrible.  Look at us right now, Piero. We're a four different man across the world talking instantly It's almost zero problems. It's amazing And it's hard because the fundamentals are hard and where Alexander the grade was immense compared to us Was that through his childhood and through his education and with aristo as a teacher and has a Bastard the shit father who pushed him to to be to be a nasol and and and which was tough And and they had to fight and they had to tame horses and they had to wrestle and they probably got Worst things done to them by some of their peers but The guys learned and they became incredible men incredible people and and We have everything to find the right balance And yet we we keep inventing new mistakes. We keep doing new new errors and um Yeah, so this is still hard with life is still hard and as it should be as it is Yeah, our battles are difficult. Yeah, I mean look at what just went down in america I think, you know, the only two things I've seen really positive in the past 10 years of american politics are ron paul running for office in 2008 and 2012 hardcore and then donald trump, which I think was an evolution of that outside of that it's been extremely negative But these were fights these were hard fights and ron paul did not win his fights He didn't have enough relationships and power and money and whatever Trump won his fight in 2016, but in 2020 he was not able to win this fight But these are the fights of our lives and losing these is putting us like you're saying on a track for inevitable collapse of a war major clashes afghanistan style or whatever And it's not going to be fun. You know, it's going to be sad Uh, and maybe the outcome will be positive in the end. Maybe it will be beneficial, but We both together Yeah, jesus Yeah, I mean watching some of it go down at the end here like wall street bets Trying to bankrupt these hedge fund billionaires. That was pretty amusing. That was awesome A bunch of that bunch of they call themselves apes and just retards and stuff and they they loved it and I think they did real damage Yeah, it was pretty great Can I just tag on to what pierra said there that uh, one of the things that makes life now Hard and this is back to the psychological elements of it is There's so much data that we have to process So much data.  There's one book. It's the bible and you don't even have it.  So we're exposed a lot and that's that's enormously stressful And I think just tying together a point that jack made earlier With what pierra has just said it's easy. It's a fall into ideological possession and that's what it is It's a fall. It's a collapse. You go. This is hard. I have to do this have to do this I know I'll go the white room.  You now have What's the question? What's the answer? Do you have a tribe that backs you up? Do you have a way of uh, of refuting enemy accusations? Yes, it's boiling the bag solution.   It's hard. It's a pressure. You have to think you have to study history You have to study culture stay in the fight. Don't give up. Don't just uh, I'll pick this team.  You you think that you've joined Um a particular group in the battle, but you haven't you just checked out the only battle Is it on the front line is figuring this out and we're using history As much as we can to learn but I think we will ensure it that this Thing that we're facing is truly novel This is a novel threat and it's gonna we're gonna need a new solution to this or We will be looking at what will become Uh imminently the descent of the species and I don't think it's too much to say that I don't think it's hyperbole to say that Yeah, a collapse basically a collapse into worldwide communism that results in you know depopulation genocide gulags Endless high-tech tyranny the next dark ages That I think is a real possibility. Yeah Yeah, you mentioned psychological collapse and I was thinking about that richard when uh, pierrot was talking But so in your view is the rise of totalitarianism in any nation or any geography Is that a form of psychological collapse to this kind of uh, ideology and I think we can track it like um as we said before there's usually like a civil war or a pandemic or massive amounts of of of hunger and and oppression that goes on for decades things have to be bad and then With what we talk as though we're very complicated creatures, but we're not we just want a solution Just give me a way out and look the average person Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.   That's how lazy the average person is so I have I have sympathy for that. I have a kind of compassion for the fact that Yeah, most people just can't cope with the stress And they really just want a leader to follow so We talk about history like oh naziism was terrible Stalinism was terrible And we're all hiding from this dark truth that we want leadership.   So I sympathize I sympathize, but it is it is inexcusable. Um, antsy. I have to let a girl in I'm gonna go off for a second and I'll be back. Okay. That's cool I got no problem with that dude. I didn't think you would Can I bounce off of I'm gonna play devil's advocate for just a second.  Someone needs to lead these fools Like they're ridiculous You know, I mean I I could see the psychology there for someone Because you know you're dealing with dudes who are that like genius level IQ and whatever and you're just watching Like look at these people They can't run themselves I've thought about you actually and it I agree with you there and it maybe it's related to absolute power corrupts Absolutely that old saying Because I've thought about like someone like bill gates, for example There's another guy like zuckerberg bill gates is obviously not dumb. He's intelligent.  He's psycho but It's like you're saying though like he sees at a very high level with very whatever, you know access to information that he has Which I'm sure is huge On level with the with the state leader, uh, you know of a major nation You know, I think he just wants to kill everyone and from his perspective that that probably makes a lot of sense Like these genocidal maniacs that get in positions of power They they yeah, it's because we see the frustration almost horizontally our fellow middle middle classy and so to speak What's left of them and it's frustrating and we think they're we did they're dumb and they are dumb and lazy a lot of the time I don't want them to die.  Piero That's quite true. And in fact what you what you see is how much land They are buying to to you know, the big gates has bought a lot of land in north america to produce Because he probably knows that this is where the power is going to be. There is however a big flow in that plan of theirs is that Where's the mob the organized crime has power is in the faithfulness and the fidelity of their own if you're the mafia boss or if you're the The people who are running for you are your brothers your cousins your your closed childhood friends, perhaps Not strangers and this power Might not enable you to run and build a big software company or or to run a social network And have billions of dollars or hundreds of billions of dollars But your brother and your cousin is probably not going to betray you easily. However Some of those billionaires in times of crisis I don't know if they are really realizing that Everything they own and everything they have is at the mercy of their bodyguards Yeah, I've thought about that a massive flow in their plan and if you if you allow can I shamelessly plug My recent novel my recent book. I wrote a book set in italy in the 1920s 30s and in germany In the 1940s. It's kind of a novelized story of my grandfather who ended up In a prison camp in germany And to make a very long story short what i'm trying to show philosophically in the book Uh, if you read through the between the lines and the book is translated in english It's available in in in english called giuseppe, which was his name is that You you you do end up sometimes into The the the crunching of history Taking little people little workers He was working in mines in the in the in the mines of north of italy And he was doing his life, you know going to the you know seducing girls on the weekends dancing and all that stuff and then suddenly you get caught by the fascist rise of the fascist regime the wars that italy participated in in in you know, there was uh in african spain and then of course world war two and eventually And explain how he ended up in camps in germany with uh, just a long british and american and french other prisoners of war and the The suffering mental and physical that these guys at those in those times had to go through Uh, and he he mingles with russians and polish and the the kind of uh Oppression is we we still don't have that fortunately But what i try to show is that at some point In your mind you have to again you have to say no you have to say okay I will not die. I will not be A slave. I will revolt. I will run away. I will go back home to what is important family friends I will go through war through civil war through bombed cities through Working he walked uh by foot from north germany to italy. What back that was this is his He was proud of that and um and the the the difficult times of those of those area If we take the chance to learn if we take the chance to read Uh Have a lot of value for for our generation and the younger people that listen to us Because it shows the fortitude the resiliency that is in all of us. We all have this potential We need training. We need to be aware. We need to to learn about it And it is part of our duty as as humans as as human beings for our self-respect To not be slaves first of all of our own Instinct bad instincts, you know laziness watching tv eating bad food And we all to some extent fall into that one once in a while and sometimes often Uh, I love food. I eat too much. I need to control myself. This is my main problem but Other people is cigarette other people is drugs other people is too much sex if if that thing can can be a reality I'm not sure but but things like that, uh, or it can be um, you know, narcissism narcissism, you know Who for money sure the the the buds on the internet for the whole world Could there be a problem after a few years doing that? Well They will find out so All of this again, we are trying to again reinvent things that wisdom and tradition Have had consolidated over hundreds of thousands of years of culture And and now we have thrown everything away and we are kind of improvising No, this is going to be a disaster and we have to learn from the history and it's not far In this case, it's my grandfather. It's not far or far in the past We are and as richard said and I I I traveled and worked a lot in eastern europe They remember very vividly how it was 30 years ago Uh, if you say something wrong, you could have in some cases jail or or big problems or simply disappear And in some milder cases you would not get the jobs or promotions Or you would not get the apartment you requested to the government They had ways to punish you even in a Peaceful way for the least severe regimes But they remember and so we need to learn and keep remembering Look at the jewish community how they keep remembering and hammering at every holiday every dinner every Time that about the pogroms the holocaust whatever Real or imagined or exaggerated doesn't matter They remember that it's hard and it's tough and they have to be On their toes and and and and and be nimble and be able to move away Okay, that's an interesting approach and we all need to do that as well That was my round book No, it really inspires an idea that I it's not the first time I've had it But it brings it back to mind maybe richard can comment on this So we've been talking about and hammering on laziness and sloth and uh psychological collapse narcissism these things The one thing we haven't really talked about is arrogance And when you mention the abandonment of tradition that we see so brazenly today That was condensed and compressed and has its own momentum for thousands of years It even reminds me and I thought about this in my personal life people that You know people from my childhood and high school and college and whatnot that watch my instagram these normies so to speak They see me post these things bashing feminism and you know promoting masculinity toxic masculinity 100 toxic All these things there's they're sometimes shocked which is not that surprising What is stunning to me though and it's linked I think to their ignorance like the travel and this and that and all that As the arrogance they have that you know For the first time in history, they're abandoning gender roles at like lightning speed And for the previous couple hundred thousand years of our species these things are not abandoned They were like very very normal They look at me like i'm nuts for saying that you know women should you know prioritize being a mother They should be in the home You know most of them most of the time right this is I don't even think this is a controversial statement But to them it's like absolutely radical And it's like no you're it's the reality is the opposite like everything else today.  It's like they're all just diving into a pool. It's two feet deep and they're breaking their necks And they're like you're crazy just dive right in bro.  Um What you just mentioned there is is is classic from young Ian psychology It's anima possession and animus possession the men generally speaking are possessed by And a non-noble version of their own femininity that they've actually they're actually in denial of they've actually lost connection with The women are possessed by a non-noble toxic Version of their own masculinity that they've lost Contact with they've disavowed and so yeah, you see these things play out when it comes to Arrogance if we're going to bring it to the realm of of narcissism and personality disorders We think of narcissists as having very strong egos and being very ego driven It's not true. They actually have a very strong super ego, but no ego boundaries whatsoever And when you see narcissism playing out not just in an individual but in a collective That's why you get this Everybody everything all the time attitude. There's never a no Which is why what jack was saying earlier the cure to this is no and no is a boundary What they're doing is boundarylessness and there is this it's it's beyond arrogance. It's um It's magical thinking we can do anything whenever we want just by saying that that's what we are and that's what we can do And it's like no fuckface. You can't you can't fly you can try if you like, but you'll only get one go I can be a woman today. I have a penis, but I'm a woman, you know, right? So, you know, you can just declare yourself And it's everybody everything all the time no boundaries No limits And it's I always look at this and I'm like this isn't If there's anything noble about revolutions or anything that's vaguely marxist It's the people who are oppressed by elites and are raped and tortured and used and enslaved Should rise up and overthrow those elites. That's the potentially noble side of a revolution This is not that this is just pure privilege This is boundaryless privilege And and people who are spoiled Into insanity where they think they can have everything Nobody gets everything and and then when they don't They're really angry and they want to find somebody to blame. I'm sorry, but this is the mentality of a three-year-old I I have compassion To a degree with where they're coming from but when we get into this And I want what I want and if I'm not getting it Somebody needs to die or somebody needs their business ruining or somebody needs to be Cancelled and silenced forever I'm afraid I don't have of any time for that. It's evil. I'll put a moral spin on it Which psychologists aren't supposed to it's evil plain and simple and they should be stopped And why are we as a collective allowing this these people always existed?  And it It it what I don't understand is when people spout this stuff Oh, they don't see that they're digging their own graves.  It's only a matter of time. It's probably like neo neo marxist It's just new age marxist. Yeah. Yeah, it's and it's Is it is it even really marxist? I'll leave that for the marxist. It's a debate over Um, it it probably isn't whatever it is though this sort of wokest thing Um, it it is a snake eating its own tail. It dooms itself So even as you take a step in that direction, you're dooming yourself What was biden's one of his first statements was that he was going to help businesses But he mentioned every ethnicity except for white businesses Oh, yeah, all the women businesses and all the minority businesses, but no no men and no white men, especially no white people It's lunacy I don't even think it's legal. It's it's illegal. Not that that matters anymore, but at that point I just have to say okay, we're we're in we're in a really dangerous situation here because um When you are picking out Members of the population if he if he said if he picked out members of the population he said well, I'll be helping a white man first We would all be jumping up and down and screaming rightly so You should just help businesses mate.   It's it's got nothing to do with anybody What what your genetic heritage is Is nothing to do what you what meat plumbing you have as a business owner is totally Irrelevant and making it relevant is purile. It's pure. It's immature.  It's nothing to do with him Nothing at all. They're they're american citizens and they're business owners end of story That's who you should be helping and to divide them up like that is a is a disgrace That wasn't a very psychological point. I made that was a bit I think I think a lot of psychologists are moving the better ones are moving in your direction because Things are escalating out of control. It's psychology psychology is being abused at the moment They're using psychological language to further their nonsense agenda. That's why I'm pulling back from it mate I'm like, I'm not talking psychology. I'll talk philosophy because at any point in philosophy I can put it back on you back on the listener back on the person asking me a question And I'll say well, let's use the Socratic method. What do you think about that psychology presents itself as this It's this medicalized solution to things and it's it's easy to misuse psychology It's not so easy to misuse real philosophy. You can misuse ideology, but you can't really use philosophy You can't it's not so easy to misuse philosophy as a weapon to be people over the head with So, yeah, I think I think we will see more psychologists wanting to push away from that and be like hang on That's you're misusing these terms Well, I think what's happening is we're seeing and this has been going on for my entire time as an entrepreneur I'm in my 15th year now being a business owner And I think we're seeing what psychologists and etc etc as we're seeing people, especially men Basically forced through the escalation that is ever increasing and exponential They're being forced out of their profession Like I started as not even an entrepreneur like kind of just a hobby organizer of events Because I wanted to basically get better with women and be improved myself I wanted to then bang more women and a bunch of other young guys were like, hey, that sounds like a great thing That of course is escalated and snowballed into a million different Very positive things from my life and for the man of sphere and for millions of men that watch our speeches and videos But it's also like I didn't start out wanting to fight a culture war I know you started out with the most primitive of drives that actually is the drive that makes the world go around Yeah, exactly. I just want to yeah, I wanted to get laid I wanted to improve my social skills and dating skills sexual skills And a lot of that just you know focused on pretty basic stuff like You know organizing physical events for men selling tickets and then editing videos and stuff and publishing them So it wasn't you know, it didn't have anything really to do with like, let's fight a culture war and save the west and the world's collapsing It was like, let's get laid like and then it just keeps escalating out of control Well, this was this was the thing that Yuri Besmanov says wasn't it?  I barely remember it because everything is politics now You you can't everything you touch comes back sticky with with some political Conitation or other is it a I've noticed that in America anyone who's apolitical that segment of the population has been dwindling Because everyone's getting polarized. They're swinging to submission and psychological collapse with the left Or they're swinging towards anything pro america and you know pro freedom Which is I think it's ultimately a good thing even if it's going to have conflict One thing that also comes to mind I was mentioning earlier is we're talking about civil wars that precede communism Which is very consistent china rush of vietnam. I'm sure there's even more examples What's interesting is in america, I think we're seeing that happen and people have been discussing this for years Especially last year. It was a big year that it was discussed on twitter and the internet and all that But it's like they keep pushing and pushing and pushing and eventually I think there will be pushback You know a big big no And that so if this what's interesting is if you look at vietnam china and russia You didn't have a well armed You know, especially with a founding myth like jack talks about here in his books You know, we have a well armed middle class population. That's the most well armed group of people in the world I think ever switzerland is close, but it's much much more No, if there was a civil war in america, may I think I said this during an interview last year would be very short I'm very decisive Yeah, I hope it wouldn't be a long running thing There's one side out numbers is outtrained is outskilled. I mean look at how many vets you have just living in your country But it's uh, so that's that's kind of what i'm saying those who knows how it'll go And if it does happen i'm not not advocating i'm all for peace peaceful protesting But uh, whatever happens happens. I don't have any control over this, right? And i'm definitely not going to start it I'm not going to be that we can encourage people to try and meet in the middle and to try and see each other as human beings And to try and get talking, but that may be a They're not going to maybe a defunct effort at this point Yeah, like voting like voting was a way voting is a method like there's actually a book in a movie Obviously to focus on the starship troopers That's actually a great great book and even the movie they focus they talk about voting and what it really is Which is political force You want when you vote you want someone to manage the courts the judges and the men with guns To physically act different in real life and do different things So when you vote you want a man with a gun to come do things differently To me and my neighbors and my community like collect more taxes Like i don't have a choice in that and if i don't pay them they're going to arrest me at gunpoint And if i don't want to get arrested they're going to kill me Even if it goes down waco style and it just gets the way it's out of control But now they're shutting that off. It's like they're shutting off free speech They're shutting off every valve that you can resolve things peacefully and it seems to be on purpose But well my main point here though is that if things do escalate to civil war in america before a communist revolution This is a big big difference that was not available in russia and it was not available in china and it was not available in vietnam We have the history of our our founding myth so to speak our founding ethos Was literally shooting sorry richard, but british people How dare you sir i'm still hurt you We're ready to take it back.  I think that's how things would go, but there's no certainty There's no guarantee with that But if things do go differently, maybe uh, that'll be how they go different the civil war will kick off The communists will try to make their move as they have been increasingly And then it is backfires and blows up in their face. That would be nice And that's something again that that wasn't really possible. I think in russia and china and vietnam They didn't have a george washington looked to they didn't have 1776 and they had half a billion guns There's also another big difference from russia in 1917 or or the any other country in the past and now One is supply chains We have 99 of the people living in cities depending on one percent of people producing the food This has never happened before So the supply chains You have two weeks to live At best Before before you you you have bad water no electricity Uh, no food anymore and the supply chains are easy to cut You just need truck the people driving the trucks not wanting to go in the city infested infested by crazy people I'm sure this almost happened in portland. Uh, I don't know jack. What was your feedback? But at some point, you don't want to Drive your truck to to deliver a supermarket if crazy people Uh assault you and and and because of because patriarchy And and and things like that although the other big difference is the quality of human beings I'm I'm taking mentally and physically Uh, we know when when you look at a college students university students of 1914 In the trenches in europe or in in the in the fields of europe you have incredibly physically fit Students of course, uh intellectually fit as well, but you have people who are Well fed well well and and i'm really meaning well not not in the negative sense They were they were fit. They had they walked every day to back and forth. They they had Extremely fit and the mind i mean to stay four years in the trenches and and what these our our grandfathers used to go through Today, you know people people get uh have microaggressions In terms of of mental of mental strengths. It's extremely weak And I and I'm not talking about everyone. Of course, there are veterans from from the from You know many wars who show that they're still strong people around but it's not the majority anymore and um This is this is what happened with comfortable civilization and and of course The the the people who fear microaggressions and get offended Because they mispronounce their the the gender or name I don't think they're going to fear psychologically well in difficult times and to take To go back to today's situation after one year of this chinese cat thing With that wish we cannot even name um I'm sure richard can confirm that but you start to have warnings from Psychiatrists and psychological psychologists across the world for sure. I've read some reports here in switzerland about teenage suicides doubling for last year and Nervous breakdowns increasing dramatically. I think was plus 40 percent on the workplace people people just have nervous breakdown Because they can't meet people anymore because they can't stand being alone and you have violence We are in countries where we don't have a lot of violence And suddenly we have random violence with gun people going into some government office and shooting people This has never happened or very seldom happened and we've had two last months in january in france, for example so this mental instability Because of a small crisis compared to world war two or world war one Is at the beginning phase and this is probably why you will see probably government saying it's over. There's no more no more Sanitary crisis everyone go back to normal because they went too far And they start to see some some Some results, but it's it's not the point of the discussion. I know but The point is that we are seeing much weaker people physically and mentally Which is everything we stand against by the way in these communities We want our friends our peers and family to be stronger mentally and physically not to go to war But just because this is the way to be a man and I presume a woman as well in their own way And and we want good for them for for us and for our our peoples in general From all religions all races we want the best for everyone sure, but We are not in that trend in the society. We are getting weaker and weaker and Again, remember the discussion we had at the very beginning natural selection is not kind of the week Well, but and you know speaking of weakness and strength, you know You mentioned women in their own way and I agree with that strongly I was thinking just the other day even yesterday about it just something that's on twitter And uh, basically, you know for a woman today to be a slut is the easiest thing in the world It's an exact sign of a weak woman because it's fitting into the crowd and behaving like everyone else The other 90 percent of women a strong woman today is the opposite of that someone who resists this The generate fucked up lifestyle that has become so normal for them And the weakness though is being this massive slut, which is like this new It's the new thing for them say weak to be weak is to be a slot today for women and to be strong is to be to be Chast and say one more thing and then I have to go because I have my four kids who are starving and I need to feed them You mentioned about about a woman being being a slut Now throughout history Women's didn't did not want to be perceived as slots at all because it's a very bad Reproductive strategy because obviously no no one wants to stay with you if you have children if you have a reputation of a slut Today, of course government can help you to be to survive Through money and through the divorce laws and so on and so on but you have to remember that in the big cities of the world Before the 19th century, let's say before the middle of the 19th century cities like London Dublin Naples where we have data Half of the woman population were prostitutes Wow And this is because life was so tough And it was so difficult to live especially in the cities where you didn't you don't produce food That most women who didn't rely on strong men to protect them and provide for them So that they could take care of the children on their own So the evil the evil patriarch the evil toxic mass puninity When it was not around they had to revert to go back To the basic means of survival for women, which is trading sex for food That sounds exactly like today And interestingly, right? So anyway, I want you to save the role. I have to go Thanks I really appreciate your time. Hang on before you go. I have one specific question. I wanted to ask you Sorry to interrupt you Then I'll let you go. I swear Your book got me thinking about debt national debt massive amounts of debt obviously it's about economic collapse But I've been looking for a figure and I can't find it And it's the real total debt for america and the real total debt for the west And the real total debt for the world These are numbers that you just can't find when you include unfunded liabilities Like I think in america, for example, it's between 200 and 300 trillion But what about the west and what about the world? Is it over a quadrillion? These are crazy numbers, right? You probably can add them up if you but you have to add You have to dig a little bit. What is the in the in the Balance sheet of banks that is considered toxic and they put it in a different balance sheet because they can do whatever they want Now, you know accounting rule who cares? But the debt is still there the month the liability is still there If you add the companies the banks the credit cards the student debts the the government the local governments The state the the states you end up with numbers that are so huge That they defy the mind and they certainly defy the reason of ever being able to be reimbursed So the name of the game is not Planning to have gross to reimburse the The money this is all one of the reason why they have zero or negative interest rates because it's the only way if you As soon as you go back to any positive interest rates, the whole system explodes the This numbers become infinite and means nothing anymore However, they are still Based on one reality is that we need food. We need energy to move stuff around which is oil and and stuff We need electricity. We need and that is not limitless. That cannot be expanded forever just with magic So sooner or later, and I believe sooner and I believe we are right at the time This is going to happen. We're going to have structural fallings on these Fundamentals, which is food production food delivery or based on energy mostly oil So be careful when that happened because when that happened the whole houses of cards falls down and collapses And then then you're back to basics Doesn't mean it's everywhere at the same time. It doesn't mean it's brutal everywhere at the same time Some cultures react good. Look at japan some cultures react less good, so Be careful, but um, it's cannot last forever. It's just physics Infinite dead as a finite timeline sounds like Piero, I think if you're a time appreciate the answer and uh being on the show Everyone make sure you pick up his book survive the economic collapse Here's other books available on amazon and probably bookstores. You can check it out awesome book So what it's it's being reprinted. So wait a few weeks knows But I'm around take care. Thank you. Piero. Cheers. Yeah Love that guy.  It's somewhere between 500 trillion and a quadrillion I think it could be more but it's it's really insane And it's it's amazing.  It's 200 to 300 trillion. It's somewhere on that range, which is crazy I wanted to know specifically what america owed china just china and I couldn't I couldn't get a sensible It's it's trillions. Yeah, it's honestly small though compared to what uh as big as and threatening as it sounds like The unfunded liabilities are the major thing the 27 trillion is all that's all nonsense.  The communists will deal with that. They'll eradicate money completely and then that'll solve That'll solve the problem. And I also have to go soon, mate. Sorry about that Now it's been over two hours. I think we should probably wrap up It's so much fun talking to you guys. I just wanted to go on like the debt forever Jack if we can close at richard, thank you for your time everyone check out his uh his channel And of course his course at 21 university. It's it's super awesome. It's the best course in the world for anything As well as psychology and healing as a man from trauma very useful stuff and his speech at 21 convention. Check it out Thank you guys. Thank you gentlemen. It was a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you richard Jack now, it's just me and you one on one if we can close out I want to hear about your new book. What is going on with this and how does it fit in the larger context the universe of Jack Donovan Jack kind of an universe. That's like a comic book universe, right? But uh, uh, yeah Uh, well the fire in the dark it actually uh, everyone will see that and then try and go buy it on amazon and can't Because it's not out yet. Uh, that was a pre press copy Uh And so it'll be out or probably early march I had a lot of order hard hardcover pre-orders and uh, when I ship those Then then I'll release the rest of the book and the audiobook and every I'm still gonna I'm about halfway through recording the audiobook, which is super Yeah, so I'm working on that and you know, I wanted to be all available at the same time because everybody listens to audiobooks now That's the kind of the thing but uh, but yeah, so it's uh, basically I consider it kind of going back to my roots with the way of men and talking about like a solution for like finding out what's always masculine, but in a different way like when I went to look at uh Masculinity and answer what the what is masculinity? I'm like, what is it always and everywhere and what doesn't change? What's eternal? and with this book I started out looking at spirituality from a A a Germanic pagan perspective, but then it quickly got bigger than that And so I really it's almost a in this sense of like king warrior magician lover Uh, where you're talking about archetypes. I look at uh, really the archetypes of gods that men have had Throughout history and what's always the same and why and you know, it's like They're always sure is a skyfather in every system ever And why is that you know, it would it actually be a patriarch technically?  So, you know, it's like a father And uh striker, which is always the warrior. There's always a thundering warrior god with lightning and the whole deal a storm god and that's the god of war and and and all that and then there's always a Pastoral god that has to do a little bit more with fertility and and uh the crops and and all that kind of stuff These are three things that men have always had to carry about and I brought them back and rooted them In the idea of a fire and I introduced this I think a little bit in a speech at the 21 convention Because I was sketching out the book as I've done a couple times with the 21 convention and so Um You know The idea of a fire is is the simplest thing in the world and we can all relate to it and men have done it all around the world If they need they go to a new place and what's the first the sun goes down they build a fire and they create What does the fire do It makes the world around them intelligible It creates order of its own, you know, because once the sun goes down the sun is the you know, the solar thing that they makes light on the world makes us understand things or whatever, but uh, the fire is a Substitute for the sun In many ways and so it becomes the the substitute thing It's how we make our world intelligible and create order within it and you have to defend the order which is Uh, what the warrior does and what I talked about the fire creates a boundary too, right? It creates a perimeter and therefore Yeah, it creates its own perimeter It's it's a natural thing like where where the light ends. That's where chaos begins Like and that and then so we you know nations need boundaries to exist because then it's not that nation anymore It's something else, you know all the we and we're talking about boundaries earlier We that's what men do they create boundaries and order and draw lines And uh, that's why I like and like I said we brought up washington You said he was in the book and he's kind of the perfect example are really that If you really go and look at his biography Uh, he was all these things. He was father of nation, which is a conceptual thing Uh, because he didn't have children, which is also interesting Uh, but he was really literally like the father of a concept and Oversaw the creation of its rules and its guidelines and all these other things But he got there because he's an ascended warrior Uh, he was a warrior who you know fought his way through that and then basically it's like all the old mythological stories like You he killed the evil king and overcame the evil empire and then started his own order I mean, it's it's it's mythic And uh, and then but in real life a lot of times he was like Can I just go be a farmer now? Yeah, like he was done with it. He wanted to go back to mount Vernon and just Uh work on his farm a lot of times and they they they sucked him into being president because he was like he was the guy You know and so it he's just a really good example that pulls all these ideas together and so I just think it's interesting because when it's a King warrior magician lover a lot of the guys have read that book and and so forth and it's and it's good And there's a lot of good stuff in it But uh, it was written by from a very feminist pacifist perspective And you can see a lot of that in it and I think that for men who are interested in masculinity Maybe we need to look at it a little bit of a different way It's interesting you mentioned that because I remember reading even books that I think are still pretty good Like the way the superior man by david data I read that at like 17 years old is very popular in the pickup artist Wing of the man a sphere back in the 2000s And I like some of it But there's another part of it that I couldn't quite articulate at you know 17 18 years old and it's that it's very like too soft and pacifist almost and it's not Like a warrior is someone who fucking fights is how I see whether it's Where's make war? And I think yeah, I've also read too the king warrior magician lover and it's got the same similar feel to it It's too soft and it doesn't mean the ideas are all wrong It just means it's like There's a certain attitude or theme to it that i'm not down with and they they they missed and your books don't have that Your books have the opposite I think they're intellectually striking you're a striker as a writer You're striking with your keyboard and your keys and you're in your pen. It's awesome But yeah, yeah, it's exactly we guys who are on our page in the I think needed something of Else something a little bit of different perspective. And so this is my attempt to bring that to the table I'm all about it, man I love your writing love your work an absolutely underrated author in the manister actually the acting secretary of masculinity for the manister I love that. I got that I didn't even know it But and uh, you know, we just we've had a little uh Yeah discussion about on the sidebar But I mean obviously I'll plan to speak about this in broader things when I speak at the 21 convention this year Fuck yeah, looking forward to man having you back once again 21 summit Multiple conferences actually going on but you're speaking at the main legendary event the 21 convention There'd also be a fatherhood event and of course the event for the women to get them back in the kitchen make them great again Last question for you jack and then we'll close out You've had this concept of the gold pill that came out in your newsletter recently Everyone who's not a newsletter should go join it jack dash donovan.com Yep, talk to me. What is the gold pill because we got the blue pill We got the red pill. We got the purple pill. We got the god pill.   Talk to me about the gold pill. What is the gold pill? Yeah, I just you know, it's just kind of the ongoing discussion I've been having with throughout my newsletters and that I've been putting out recently um, because that's how I'm writing for guys now because you know, who knows One instagram is going to be not real for any of us and that kind of thing so I can write a little bit more directly to my audience and The gold pill, you know, I I got the idea because people are always talking about these golden ages of times when things were better and That this we're in some bad time in some dark age and whatever and and uh, this kind of black pill mentality And the gold pill is that it's our job to become the men of the golden age Uh, the at some point, you know, like During the american revolution great example You know, were we in the dark ages were at a dark time? I mean people were obviously pissed off enough that they fought a long war to change the world and They had to step up and become the men that now we look back on and be like wow, that was awesome. Yeah and So the gold pill is just about like yeah, this is our job To go become these guys who other men in future generations will be like I can't believe those guys did that That that that's what needed to be done and they did it and they stepped up and and got it done And so it's our job to become those guys not just be cry about hell It's not the golden age anymore because that's what I see so much online and it's so You know, it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, like make the golden age Yeah, that's that's your job. So these are the things I think about but I don't articulate them In the way that you do and I love hearing it because the feeling if that's a thing in this sense Like I feel these things, but I don't quite I'm not I'm not a author like you I'm not thinking about them at the level and the rigor that you are constantly So I love seeing it and hearing it because that is how I feel and how I think it's like the mean, you know Strong, you know hard times create strong men strong men create Good times good times create weak men It's a cycle that everyone talks about and it's not Totally inaccurate, but I have a certain frustration with it and it's like It's like staying on the cycle is its own black pill Like why if you can observe the cycle you have the ability to change it And I think the founding the founding fathers and the whole founding generation The men who fought in the war and the men and the women and the men who supported them They changed history. You're right.  They said no to the cycle and we're gonna up the cycle to a new level And now it doesn't mean the cycle is completely gone But they did something about it And I I get the sense that you're of the same opinion about that meme or similar opinion Like I don't I have frustrations with that meme basically Yeah, I mean they come from a poem because I had to look it up to make sure what I was referencing is as I do and uh and yeah, I mean it's It's a reality and that is how things work in societies obviously things get too easy It also reminds me there's one of my favorite books that I've referenced for years and years and years is uh One of those dystopian authors. I'm blanking on the name right now, but Uh, what? No, no, no, it was a book that uh, it was called the uh, Now I'm blanking on the whole thing now. I lost the brave new world No, no, no. No, no, it's it's a it's a less known one Oh, it's called the wanting seed Okay, it's by anthony burges the guy who wrote clockwork orange Okay, and and it basically was a society where they were moving towards outward population And so they decided to masculine the men and basically make they had a slogans that were like It's sapiens to be homo and like, you know, basically like have all the guys became really effeminate to fit in with the government because that's what they wanted because they didn't want them to reproduce And uh, you know dudes would have like, you know sex with women on the side because that's what they really wanted to do and uh, but then they'd have a child and it would be like bad because they weren't allowed to have it and uh But then that can't last that long And so society falls apart it goes in this crazy fascist state and then that can't last either and so it goes into a next thing And I won't spoil the end of the book, but it's an interesting solution that they come up with but uh In that they have a similar idea like it's he takes it about the catholic catholic philosophers a there's like the pelagian system and the The pale phase and the gust phase that they're august and phase and basically it's like in in one phase humanity thinks we're all really our natures are really good And that we should all we all be will be kind together if we just let allow it and the other side thinks humanity is naturally evil And we need to like keep tight control of them because they'll get out of control And in reality neither of those are actually 100 through and we're always somewhere in the middle People are mostly good, but sometimes they're evil You know like and but there there goes through a balance He has the same thing like it goes through a cycle of phases Like we think that people are naturally good so that we're super nice and we're kind of in that right now and then You know that's breaking down and then there's going to be tight ortho authoritarian control because people are going to get super violent And then once that's controlled that it'll go too too nice and it'll go around the circle again And so there's a lot of cycles like that and all of them have some use to talk about but And and the one I always talk about because a lot of my readers is like like the kaliyuga. It's like an ancient hindu thing Which really doesn't reference our society at all But that there are ages of man and this we're in it.   It's not an american attitude either It's not what we were taught by our founding fathers and our founding generation. It's the opposite It's not a masculine attitude and it it absolves them of agency Because if if you can't do anything about it Then you don't have to Yeah, and honestly, I think that that's what happened with a lot of uh, society right now is that, um We're seeing that we're ruled by bad people We're seeing where I mean, I that's obvious. I think if you are okay about looking at it I mean, I I if you would ask me five years ago I'd be like no half these guys mean well, you know, like I you know, they're mean well, but they're wrong Has that gone for you?  I don't know but like right now No, that's it's clear like they don't actually want to make people healthier They don't actually want to make the nation stronger. They don't Sort of Yeah, yeah, I mean that is no longer a realistic thing to say But you watch people and they're having cognitive dissonance with it because and I think Because if they admit that there's something wrong Like very wrong and that they're in one of these bad times that we read about like, you know, russian revolution or the If we're in one of these bad Times in history Then they have to act on it But if they can sit and say no, no, they mean well, they're just wrong I think what you're You're mentioning The where to go I heard is So you're mentioning a cognitive dissonance and I think that's accurate But much on a much broader scale thing what we're witnessing is normalcy bias And if they pop the cognitive dissonance bubble They also pop at the same time by necessity The bubble of normalcy bias that we've been living in that the government doesn't want to kill you And doesn't want to enslave you and it's like actually that's no longer true They want to put you on a house arrest for it looks like almost a year straight now in some places Yeah, which is absolute tyranny. Like this is not funny. This is totalitarianism. Yeah, that's not tyranny.  I think it's kind of It's a very scary thing to say.  I'm a neighbor's harm. I'm a family harm And that's a big step to take for I'm I'm long past there But for the average person going to walmart, like they don't want to acknowledge this. It's it's very scary I think yeah, because then what do you do that that implies that demands action because that if Because it's masculinity is what it demands. Yeah, it demands masculinity and it's like if I'm a man and I Now admit to myself if you're living in california I mean if you can rationalize the Gavin Newsom is not a horrible human being Like I mean that's just obvious in plain but But even looks like a villain. He looks like Well, I think I wrote in that piece like all these people look like I mean, it's a perfect setup but But but yeah, I mean if if you accept the fact that this guy is trying to hurt The pe