Yeah, not peacemaker. Yeah. Yeah, was there a third one though? Feels like we've covered loads of her and it's just been to how about it Crazy, you know, it's just us. That's that's how she does it She gets in your head and you're like I need to know more of Grace's opinions We can like grace and Ben Shapiro in the same stream. We had those two tell us about media.  Oh god. What do you say about that shit? So all he did essentially was he went over the movie very very briefly but all but throughout most of the video he complained that it got a Golden globe and he was saying the golden globes always suck Therefore this movie is bad and then toward the end of the video. He finally just He talked mostly about the golden globes and then at the end he said so in summary you have to accept lesbians across the multiverse That's the whole movie Not all the multiverse just your universe that'd be fine We'll be good And then he just moves on away from that film. I don't know. Yeah, that was his takeaway Was beans and remember he's kind of like a really hard conservative So as soon as like there's a lesbian in the movie that takes some sort of presence It kind of goes down like five activates the neural programming. Yeah, I Mean, you know lesbians. We're in it. So there's also sausage fingers rocks. There's a bunch of stuff. Yeah Recoons that's true Yeah, that's right. Oh, what a what a fun movie that was It was great I'm sure there'll be plenty more to come Not for now though.  Maybe they could team up kill people or something Indiana Jones ride a mermaid through the ocean with people. I don't know the flash is coming out real soon. Oh, yeah, the flash Everybody says it's so great man. Warner Brothers insists. It's such a great Everyone's insisting. It's a very good film. They really are it's just strange. It's so weird reviews insist They got to save that movie at all costs I'm sure they will gonna be something to Behold Hopefully some good stuff in the mix. Hopefully across the spider versus cool. I hope mission possible dead reckoning and fast X Yeah, that's that's out now. Yeah Exciting I've seen plenty of people say I loved it. So Is that I? Think it's gonna be an authentically Petrol fuels The trailer what's his name?  It's not that it's not insane really no Normal The one before it they drive off of a cliff like towards like a collapsing bridge hook the car To like the hook that's on the bridge and then use it to slingshot across like a chasm to the other cliff You're under space in a car in one of them.  I guess. Yeah Like you haven't actually jumped a day cool They need to jump a shark. Why haven't they done that they should just throw that in yeah Funny and it just misses the the tires as it goes over like bites.  It's a high budget shark and a do at this point why not So yeah, hello everybody we are we are live and look look at this wonderful set of guests We've got a whole bunch of people who've been here before but I don't think I've ever been here together a question mark Who hasn't met each other here say hi Hi, hello. Hello. Hi We did it everyone's introduced now Yeah, that was easy. Ah nice nice One thing that I believe unifies a lot of us is is the concept of Criticism, would you not agree? Would you guys not agree with that? We kind of all do it? I Wouldn't worry about that. I would or not not a I would not not agree Well, I mean you're not gonna get away with it CJ because you've got reviews in your name. Oh Oh Snappy got me. Yeah, I was gonna say I didn't want to point out beast and a call like you got a bit of poop on your dress I'm like, it's right there, man So many hold on never mind So I would say that it's about time that we check out a point of view that kind of goes against that Entire concept wouldn't you say? Or at least yeah kind of comes across like it might I'm not gonna say that's exactly what the video has say, but It might have something along those lines to talk about. I've linked the watch together. We've got I think everyone's in No one person's missing This video is called film criticism should not be negative No, that's that's quite a That's quite a claim ain't it one could call it incendiary as a title Quit an ambitious statement. Yeah, there are some people that would say like fighting game characters should never be nerfed only buffed And it's like, huh, I don't know what to think of that. I don't think it's that loads here God What if the film is really really bad Well, so this is a thing I think the most normal interpretation of that which is why I think a lot of people clicked the video was Wow, so only positive forms of like analysis and criticism, huh? Or neutral, I guess right if you're not allowed to be negative or they shouldn't be negative Then all you have left is you know neutral and what is a video that is exclusively neutral? criticism look like it might oh Oh Neutral criticism you dip into the negative when you like point out pieces of information that are irreconcilable Is it like Michael Douglas stars in this film? Is that neutral? You know those you know those channels that are just like oh, here's the movie This is a recap of the movie. This is what happens in it. Do you those channels like popping off lately? It's really weird. Yeah, that's the thing though like They are just brought up is it is it is it neutral if you do it in a totally flat voice and you just present two pieces of contradictory information, maybe leave like five second Jim's early made a video on exactly this topic actually. I'm pretty sure that we I'm pretty sure that's something that we covered We've even covered all you tend to cover it or something but what it was it was I think it would have been like it was just relaying information and it was presented as this is Like the only means by which you can like relay objective information about like any piece of art I think that was what the goal of that one was Maybe that's like an example of what would be to be totally and utterly neutral But then there's a problem of like any decision you make about what you choose to talk about Versus what you don't choose to talk about could in and of itself be said to be yeah You know positive or negative, right? Well, if you only talk about the writing and order, you know Or if you only talk about the acting if you only talk about the soundtrack, it's just things like You choose to talk about to me as important as like what do you say about them? But uh, we've we here at EFAP have covered videos that are exclusively negative and exclusively positive We did cinema wins and sins we've done back and forth even though I think cinema sins will often have like a You know, it'll it'll point out something that's clearly good in a jokey way or something and then be like ha ha Sins is that's their way of trying to complement cinema wins. I'm trying to think of if cinema wins has ever done a criticism I think they they tend to avoid it entirely I'm pretty sure that our cinema wins will just like I'm pretty sure he didn't like I'm pretty sure that with Logan He compliments it a lot, but he kind of didn't like it and Clear, I think so. Yeah, that might be that might be an instance I'm pretty sure that there are occasionally criticisms Wow People who like take channels like cinema sins like too seriously and not as in terms of like entertainment value It's mostly in turn. It's for entertainment, right? Yeah, he would definitely claim that okay channel and if you take it too seriously It's basically your problem and if you get triggered by it and it's negativity Well, so what people do with cinema sins, they're like you destroyed a generation Well, I always get put off by the concept even with their proof They're like look at movies now They'll focus on like explaining things and the plot being like tighter instead of character It's like what movies you watch in where these movies.  It's like what movie would you guys suggest is that kind of movie? I mean look at the MCU. It's piss. It's clearly not the product of like Actually, this is how that works even though Honest trailers and I think cinema sins influence the Russo's when making Winter Soldier and Civil War They wanted to make them I think they described when they were making Winter Soldier and they talked about it on screen junkies They said they wanted to make it honest trailers proof or something like that Cinema sins proofs and which is a funny thing to say because it's impossible. Yeah, that's pretty impossible. Yeah I guess you mean like the whole format is that it doesn't matter how good you Yeah, I'm pretty sure that cinema sins has done like cinema sins things for like just Well regarded like good things like just widely pull up and stuff I was just there's a bit of irony there Isn't there that if they were like they try to do that with Winter Soldier and Winter Soldier was one of the most popular MCU movies ever and it's like damn you with your interest in what trying to remain Uncriticizable. It's just strange. I'm all for Artists, you know not building things To please critics or whatever we get some really weird results when they do that But the idea that cinema sins is somehow horribly influenced the film industry. It's like no People feel a certain way about criticism and I believe it should be time I mean, you know because I imagine everyone here has just the the normal neutral position of Go nuts be negative be positive be be neutral whatever just make your video. Hopefully it's accurate and you're passionate Yeah, you're correct. That's the big thing So I guess we can start this up. We'll see What gets said All right, I'm excited see about the how long it takes to start it up.  Yeah, worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life Little mermaids I think that the problem is this video came out like five months ago.  Yeah, it's hard. I'm tired Avatar the way of water that isn't even out yet and it's easily the most overrated and over height movie of the entire gear Yeah, it's pretty overrated. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think it was very good Something is overhyped before it's out Like you can say like a crazy and wacky voice, but like yeah, that film is pretty overrated. We've come across this before We're uh, you take like whatever is considered the greatest, you know, if it's medium of all time It's probably gonna be overrated.  Is like the third fourth highest grossing film that no one third fourth highest grossing film of all time nominated for an academy award over other obviously better films So, you know, like I think it's fine, but it's fine. I think it's bad Well, we never did coverage on it. Unfortunately We did this is forge episode You have to say their name you can't just describe them Challenge level 1000 Don't worry if you can't I don't know if anybody can My favorite is I've I actually legit I forgot Jake there you go And then Remember quarks.    So I guess this makes me a real film critic now, right? Wrong If you spend time in the youtube, I don't even know what who who are you straw man? Who does this? Dosa slash That that tattoo is a bold choice a woman in the woods and it's like huge and it's colored and everything Is that is that the witch? Oh I think that's the witch. Yeah. Yeah Imagine he had The film title audit ad like produced by at all the credits of the bar Like the movie poster. Yeah It's an interesting choice. I'll give him that As I said, I guess he really likes that movie. That is a that's a powerful tattoo You know what? He can commit to a big tattoo. So, you know, I guess he's putting his Ink where his think is nice Wrong If you've spent time in the youtube video essay slash film criticism space You've probably seen your fair share of negatively slanted videos You know the ones with the thumbnails with the person who's like crying or screaming or both And it has like a big chunk of text next to it. This is something like trash or Failure or pain pp dudu. In fact, I know that you're not totally immune. I've seen the pp dudu ones. Yeah They're my favorite. No, maybe fair pp dudu is pretty good. That's pretty good. Yeah, I do click those It's a valid criticism But you know, you cannot like contextualize in terms of like negativeness because Those kinds of videos exist on the positive side too. Like there's so many People that throw around the word masterpiece the best made perfect. Yeah Those looking like shocked out of their mind masterpiece in bold letters across the top of the thumbnail The little mermaid changed my life from here Yeah, it's like in sincerity not only just like negativity, you know, yeah, everyone's trying to over exaggeration Yeah, and dramaticness. That's the problem with that It goes into these kinds of videos because they're likely the only reason you're seeing this video right now Yes, I am a hypocrite every human being is I'm very aware of it. Where do you think I got the idea for this video? All right, I guess Simply accepting that What why do that? Well, and the thing is to draw it.  He's just like, all right He seems to title to me Yeah, continue Oh shit He seems to be Painting like trying to maximize engagement through the algorithm in that way as necessarily bad, which I don't think I agree with That's what we are. Welcome to youtube makes me roll my eyes, but Yeah, I'm trying to think of it bad I think it really makes me roll my eyes if I don't feel like Um, the promise came through like if someone says like this fucking weird thing and then they spend the video being like Well, you know, I just didn't really like that But if they spend it actually like angry ranting it's like, well, whatever that's what the thumbnail said That's what they promised This isn't some pull the rug out from under you moment Where I reveal that all of these videos were part of a villainous scheme to I never I why even I didn't think that Nobody would It's like, come on put your hand up if you thought that it's like one guy like I know we just started but I think I'm starting to put a finger on the style of comedy that this guy's going for great Yes, that's pretty funny. I've had to mute multiple times because it's really funny I didn't want to bug anyone with my laughter.  I am mostly. Oh, well, so then they're not like exaggerated then Yeah What's wrong with it?   That's not them over exaggerating. They just feel that way and the same goes in the reverse. I think No, I wonder if the people who feel extremes might be the ones who feel incentivized to go out and make videos on things I don't know. Yeah This thing is just sort of okay Yeah I give this a Okay out of 10 six out of 10 ish I'm probably very proud of them and I'm very Sincerely happy that people are engaging with them in any way, but I can't help but look at the absolute bat 1.2 million views on the Dahmer video and think like How did we get here? Like, I mean we as in all of us here I mean I don't know about the video. I mean receiving a lot of criticism. Like I don't think it's On I don't think it's unfair that that you say is bad that his video got that engagement. It's like, but why Yeah, oh no Yeah, he seems upset that like a negative video did well or the Is it even negative? I don't know. I guess who is Dahmer even made for sounds critical of Dahmer. I would say Um, but I don't know. I mean, maybe the video is good It might be a good video That could be why people have watched it and spread it around. I don't know actively on youtube How did we get here? How did negative criticism of media become just as much of a spectacle? Um, I find this Find this to be like a weirdly it's a weird thing to be like a new revelation of people tend to like Uh, like receiving more negative information than positive information or people are more receptive to Negative information than positive information. It's like that's a pretty it's pretty normal, right? Well, you see there's definitely there's definitely a few things behind it. Like I also think that negative criticism stuff has the potential to be a lot funnier than positive criticism and there is definitely more and certainly that Well, he's saying like when did it become a spectacle and I'm just thinking about meme, right? It's like it always has been it always has been. Yeah Yeah The first cave scrolls that were made fun of by I mean the first the first big like reviewers on youtube were People like the angry video game nerd and nostalgia craig, but this is one This is where I mean it feels weird because it's like where you've been Um, because that would be another thing. It's like pinpoint to me where it all went wrong And I don't think you'll be able to I don't see how you know People in chat are saying even Siskel and Abert were um critical back in like the 70s.  He says this all goes back to the 80s. That's where it all went wrong We get here how did negative criticism of media become just as much of a spectacle as media itself I will say Also going we'll just quick the the media has gotten I would rather watch CJ's review of velma than velma like easily That's where we're at, you know No, that's not a compliment my man That's how fucking frustrated is to watch some of the stuff that's new that comes out You'd rather watch someone tell a story about that story than watch that story to speak, um So, you know, this doesn't surprise me at all and and if you were like, oh so bad media never existed before I was like, no, no, it always has you always has and you couldn't be making these videos But people have been really noticing as of late And is that because films have gotten worse? Well, it's because criticism has been easier than ever to create and put out there and access It's not just a thing that's relegated to people in newspapers who make columns or who have syndicated tv shows or Bits on news channels It's a very democratized kind of art form now and skill And I wasn't watching CJ's video for him to watch and be negative. I needed to see that scuba-doo onesie. That was That was on my bucket list and now I've ticked it off People people seem to like that onesie. Yeah How did negative criticism of media become just as much of a spectacle as media itself Media is the word and criticism got better also. I find it weird that we've said this like it's a bad thing Yeah, what's so wrong? That's how good media analysis has gotten that it's a by its own form of entertainment and artwork Well, I was going to mention like mystery science theater as well Like has been around for a very long time and that you know was pretty Pretty predominantly negative But that was the whole point of the spectacle, right? Well, they weren't really like Negative it was just a bad movie, but they didn't like say all this movie.    No, I don't recall like a lot of the time it was just making fun of the movie There would be a lot of jokes about trying to like escape the movie and get away or can we do literally anything else? All right, I mean the whole premise of the show is that um They're stuck on a on a satellite and evil people are sending them the worst movies I could ever find So if it's on the show, it's already baked into the premise of the show that it's a terrible movie Yeah, but they'll use like offhanded funny comments like some gal with like some massive hair and she looks irritated They'll say like this perms my hair. You know something funny like so what'll happen a movie comment Uh, especially if their format matches Along with a lot of other Older creators of any kind that matches as people say no, but they were funny though. No, they were insightful though Now it's gotten to be blah blah blah blah Yeah, it's a problem.  I think why am I scared to mention but um I can't remember who else much of a spectacle as media itself Why is the word criticism Broadly seen as an inherently negative term and what purpose does any of this serve Well, because uh, I think that is just a reality if when people think criticism I'd say they think like 80 20, you know negative positive That's one use of the word I think the question constructive criticism is often like a word that is surrounding right the word constructive because criticism is often viewed negatively I mean, I think the question like what's the what the what point does this serve is so stupid in this case because like It's obvious. What purpose does it serve? Like, um, we have audience for a reason, right? I mean people watch it For a purpose. I'm trying to think if you want to move your pain, right What are like the ultimate uh things to boil it down to be like informative and entertaining would be the two main ones I think right Um, so you find out information you didn't have previously that you're interested in and you are given feelings of fun That those are the Main things that are happening in the videos of people I think watch and depending on which creator you're watching you'll get a different mix of uh, you know funny slash informative Yeah, and like fun And the thing is I hate when people like pretend as if you don't have a choice on social media to not click on anything Like if you don't like it, just don't click on it I don't see it We encourage individual action. Yeah Yeah, you can see The thumbnail says dumber is terrible and you can go He is it was like a serial killer. Maybe you even tell the algorithm to stop sending you It's the hot take But yes, you you could even do that. You could say, uh, what is it not interested or something and it'll move it away mm-hmm I'm going to attempt to answer all of those questions, but before I do, please keep in mind This is all just my own perspective You want to have that moment where a guy's watching and he goes what I thought this was my perspective. Okay Fine. Well negative criticism is our perspective. So I thought you were gonna tell us Alien perspective that'd be interesting. See what they think it really is just to leave me alone like button, right? Don't be mad. Yes. Um, it's my opinion.  It's like, all right Did you what did what was it? What did you think we thought it was? mm-hmm, and even if it's just your opinion like What does that mean? It's like what does that make relative statements as your opinion exactly critical of your opinions in a certain way Can't be critical of my opinion. It's my opinion What else is it gonna be man? Of course And also don't you don't have to say it's just your opinion. You have to devalue it right from the game It's just yes. It's all you could be revolutionary with your opinion. You could change the world Don't let your memes be dreams However, it is just my opinion We need the president whoever it is that every single speech begin it with that. This is just my opinion Now remember guys It's just what I think no need to get your panties in old not or ever anything.  What is that? I so my assumption was that I think that's up there so that you can put images on without it looking More weird, but I don't know because he's got that black sheet there as well Well, if he's if he's looking to do that, I think you would want green screen, wouldn't he? No, not like well, it's not just like good luck wall. He just puts it there. So it's like, yeah, yeah That could be his good luck. Well. Yeah, it makes no sense.  It just looks like a portion. He's got his Everyone has their walls Robots from interstellar And this is like his I don't think this looks anything like those robots. It kind of does In that they are both rectangles, right? They're both Yeah, sure, but like in this one do the run, you know where it spins Probably I think it's highly probable This is all just my own perspective and try not to take it too personally I'm not gonna you just did I wasn't gonna but now I'm now I'm thinking I'm feeling pretty personally offended It really it really sounds like you took that very personally to you I'm too nervous Why are you doing this?  Because the claim film criticism should not be negative It's like a lot of people could take that personally. I mean it's in my name. I'm gonna have to take it personally. I'm sorry What if it's my opinion that I want to take it personally? You can't stop me now Actually, yeah Just my perspective Oh, it's done with the golden stuff right at the beginning. Good luck.  That's really really. It's probably everybody uses it ruined now. It's ruined. You know, I was uh I was playing um, I was playing Uh tears of the kingdom and I was I think uh breath of the wall has some songs that a lot of people will uh use as well But not as much as this one. Sorry. I don't know where I was going with that. I was just a brain thought I thought I had a point but now it's gone I do really like this track though. It's neat. Um persona five soundtrack is fantastic What I hear it's a good soundtrack with an okay game attached to it pretty neat That's about right. So before we really get into where we're at currently online I do need to talk about criticism as a word, you know, what what does it mean? What function does criticism serve back to us stuff? Do you we're gonna dive into our history, right? I'm really curious what What would you feel you need to cover for this section? You know, I wonder I don't know what he's gonna say It could be like that miller light ad that they're trying to hide women were among the first involved in criticism Ha women women weren't around. We would not have criticism Obviously, I can't give a full history of criticism. You could coward you could a history of criticism It all began me like, oh god in this video because we'd be going all the way back to 300 What's this image? Oh This reminds me of Why do we have plato on screen No, man, not this again. What? We have to go back to Look, I think this is good. That's right, man. He's going. He's covered all the bases I think you guys are shitting on this too early. This is gonna be insightful. I think I'm gonna give him a wide berth I can't wait for this. I can't give a full history of criticism in this video Be going all the way back to 300 He's not going all the way back Okay, we end up repeating a lot of what John Dryden had to say about criticism. Oh, man. Yeah, john Because you just make me skeptical about whether or not you've read Theo to be fair, all of us we're going to talk about Richard Rynan Labor Fnisen the german philosophy like we were going to talk about all that but really everybody's too familiar at this point I'd say I would be less suspicious of his education if he had said nothing about these people whatsoever But just name dropping them only to move on now. I'm like the dj I've never heard I like how the dog and the portrait is like, please mr. Dryden. Can you please stop criticizing things? I'm really hungry. I want to go. I want to go on a walk and I'm really hungry. Can you please stop criticizing? Yeah, all those books. Those are his critiques Then they could then you just start circling critiqued his own books because he's just that keeps going man You see with Aristotle if not earlier And I basically end up repeating a lot of what John Dryden had to say about criticism back in 1677 In the first place I must take leave to tell them that they wholly mistake the nature of criticism who think its business is principally defined fault Criticism as it was first instituted by Aristotle was meant a standard of judging well I said John Dryden. Oh, it doesn't really need to mention it because we're all very familiar Yes, we all know this is just for those in the audience who didn't read uh, John Dryden's Preface to state of innocence from 1677, which is 77 edition is the best one. I'm required reading for e-fap So if you haven't read that there will be a test. Uh, just so we're clear pick it up So, um, yeah standard of judging well, you're not supposed to just be looking for things to hate. You're supposed to be judging well Yeah solid Because time is a flat circle for the sake of the video and my own sanity I'm gonna try and keep things relatively focused around like the last couple of decades at most And currently criticism is not really seen in the best light as I alluded to earlier And I think that's not what did you just say that it's not seen in the best light. So he's that would concept And and doesn't this get confusing in terms of like this is just my perspective You just made a claim about everyone's perspective, didn't you? It's not seen in the best light It's like That it's not seen in the best light. That's that's right. I remember it's just as uh, the way I see it Is that everyone sees something bad in the way that criticism is but that's just the way I see it Yeah, I wouldn't want you to kick that personally The steel man is like, I guess he's associating The term criticism with like the legion of youtube people who are making very similar videos that maybe are Somewhat surface level on the subject With that is that we're dealing with thousands of creators at this point that I'd be like which ones And it couldn't possibly be all of them, right?  I don't know The other day I uh, I saw a video by someone. I don't know. I clicked on it. Uh, It was named titled like, uh Guardians of the galaxy volume three is like total garbage or something and I read like Okay, okay, it's honestly I was like I really disliked that video but not because it was negative But because how out of bs it was, you know, and everyone picked up on it, right? It's it's made for algorithm It's made to be dramatic It's made to be over exaggerated and it's made for that and I think this guy is criticizing those exact people But the problem is not with negativity It's about how stupidly exaggerated it is Technically cinema wins and sins openly admit that that is their goal that they're gonna be making videos that either celebrate or rip down a film Just for the sake of that not for the sake of like, I don't know representing it as best as they can Or for as he put it from that quote judging well They're just trying to because like uh, this is this is more of a fundamental thing that kind of sucks is the uh The vast majority of audiences when watching reviews aren't necessarily looking for a brand new change of Point of view on a film. They're more still looking for affirmation, which happens with a lot of content You know, it's not just criticism. It's just everything You want to hear your own perspective said back to you and even you know, maybe even better support than you had it previously But that doesn't mean that people aren't out there to also hear things that are new change their mind stuff like that Um, so yeah, I guess I think I'm with you with the whole like the problem is not negative or positive It's insensitivity People often people often hear that people You say that some people are often looking for confirmation bias out of videos like that and people often take that to mean that If they hear something that doesn't line up with their opinions, they'll click away Which I don't think is very true. I think people are pretty willing to stick around and hear someone out So we certainly are lately objectionable straight off the bat Yeah, we hear objectionable things immediately and we continue right to the end Well, it feels like an accuracy Yeah, if you say something and I think is really dumb or wrong or whatever and I don't like Because it's inaccurate. Well, it's because it's inaccurate.  You'd be like, well, no, but he was Tom Hanks wasn't Finch Not my Finch. Not my Finch. Some people out there will hear that and be like, what is he talking about Tom Hanks? He's Finch. It's like it's a real film. Google it. Tom Hanks is Finch and you can't stop him You can't take that away from him In the best light as I alluded to earlier And I think that's reflected by its first definition on google powered by oxford languages Which is the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes Yeah, I think this is one sense of the word. Mm-hmm. So it's commonly used Sort of broadly what's being implied when most people say the word criticism. I think this is what they mean It's like it has this inherently negative intent I mean people usually if you're looking for the neutral vision a lot of people say analysis That's what The like when you use that word you're like, oh, so it's going to be a breakdown. It could be negative positive or both When you say criticism most people assume negative And this depends on the linguistic context more than anything else Like who you're talking to the setting you're talking in what specifically you're saying determines how the specific word Like which of the two senses it's taken in I don't think people just default to thinking they hear the term criticism And they default to it being like a scathing critique of something on a on every level and seeing like it's terrible or whatever That depends on the context of what's being said and when It could be said that we've gotten to a point where it's just assumed that it will be negative I don't think that's too much of a stretch or anything. It's just that uh As far as i'm aware the core definition of the word means to just open up for positive and negative, right? It's what freeman was mentioning earlier that most people say constructive criticism as if to imply that Without constructive it will be negative Which um, yeah, yeah, maybe that's not the way that it should be perceived Maybe it should just be perceived as like a neutral term for a process And I'm sure you can find a lot of examples of me using the word in that way across videos on this channel Again, I am a hypocrite. I like some lars Trier and harmony kareem. It's a perfectly valid sense. It's okay. Yeah If um one of the meanings of it if there were 10 times for me to be able to use it And two of them would be referring to positive and eight negative I wouldn't make me hypocritical on the word when I think it should be neutral in terms of positive negative I just feel like it's all right words. Don't necessarily just mean one thing in every context Yeah, well, yeah, this is the thing this and they change Quite quickly depending on culture because we're all a bit with that language stuff Word in that way across videos on this channel again. That's someone just pointed out. Yeah constructive criticism can be negative as well That is true But the idea is supposed to be that it doesn't just you know rip you down I guess I am a hypocrite I like some lars von Trier and harmony kareem films and I still call out american horror story for being tasteless and exploitative We can do this all day if you want. However, I think that the second definition of criticism listed on Is more reflective of what criticism means to me that being the analysis and judgment of the merits and fault I'm sorry. I'm gonna be so annoying about this. It doesn't mean one or the other to you It means both of these things depending on when and how it is said that is true You don't just pick what like words aren't you don't pick your talent tree in the word You don't just pick one and you know, the other one's gone forever Yeah, that's why google shows multiple definitions for different contexts And they're often um Ordered by how often they'll be used to mean the thing, right? That's usually how it goes How long without you they specifically have archaic definitions tagged as archaic definitions I'm not sure how this is helping, but we'll get there. I think Alts of a literary or artistic work I've never personally subscribed to the idea that it is a critic's job to Tower themselves above a piece of art and scour it for every flaw like they're the f***ing eye of sauron or something Who is this who said who is who are you talking about? I don't know Sometimes you just want to wipe out, you know an extreme just in case just in case it's like I don't think criticism should be a dinosaur eating someone Okay But like it's allowed to be right someone could be the eye of sauron looking down on the media, yeah You think to yourself at first your first reaction is like I didn't say or think anything like that And then you're like wait, but what is wrong with thinking that what is wrong with Is there anything wrong because the implication is that it's wrong I think he's confusing us with that food critic guy from that rat movie But the thing is I like that people like that exist. That's fine, you know That prerogative dude It's um, well, it is what we were talking about earlier as long as they're sincere as long as they they're accurate Those are the main thing if he's only ever negative. That's still fine or at least it can be fine pens Let's go imagine it. He only ate from really bad restaurants. You just got really unlucky, you know He's trying to tell you the truth feel like oh, he's so negative And I've also never really liked the idea of a critic groveling to a piece of art either like waning guards You start this video being like oh, this is just my opinion guys That's that's basically what that is like I can do this too. They want yeah, I was going to say this is actually okay, too You find a piece of media that you genuinely just adore on every level And you have the highest respect for the craft. What's wrong with going and like giving it this sort of positive attention Need to be repetitive, but As long as they're sincere As long as they believe in this stuff as long as they really really feel that and they just They're not doing it just because they're like if I do this a lot of people click it and give me views Which is hard to know Um, you can kind of grasp it sometimes when they just feel fake or whatever, but Yeah, go out there and praise the fuck out of things you love. I don't care To me criticism encompasses everything much like the yin yang or the yin yang The sheer frustration Uh, why man? It just kept talking listen the reviews don't have to encompass everything That was just in case you thought that they did You know like the things you like the things you dislike the things you like about the things you dislike and vice versa That's an interesting interpretation of that Where it is okay engage with it on its own level. What does that ever mean really? I know people say all the time on its own level. That's one of them intuitive statements engage with our on its on its merits On its own level. Oh, is that what people mean when they say? Oh, it's like it's meant for kids or something Don't criticize it. It's been Engaged with it on its own level I really feel like if everyone who ever said it was to detail what they mean that we'd have a bunch of different answers Yeah, that's a lot of things that a lot of people a lot of video essayists say When you do a video like this feels like you should have less of those and more of the details, right? Piece of art where it is at you engage with it on its own level You create your own interpretation and then you express your perspective as best as you can That's it That's quite a lot that there's quite a lot in that I mean I have many questions, but it's fine. We'll just be like, all right That is criticism. It feels like Whichever way you slice it positive or negative animal crossing music. What's what's this from? It's got that vibe It does have that vibe Does anybody in chat know what this is from? I'm just curious I do not know Criticism is really about Validating art. It's about a critic saying I see what an artist is doing and I am taking it Seriously the art form is important to me. So what the artist does with it is equally important to me But let's be honest. All right. That was a lot there I don't know what to do with it.  You need to just express yourself Don't worry about how the art was made or who made it and how What if in their heart though, you know, what if that's all they've got? Oh, you know well I'll subscribe. How does being negative takes away from that from seriousness and taking it seriously and You know knowing what artists is doing. Maybe he doesn't maybe he doesn't believe that maybe uh Maybe he believes that the negativity is also baked into that as well as positivity That is not how most of us see criticism Especially not on youtube whether it be the commenters or the creators We just seem to flock to negativity and cynicism here on youtube, you know, obviously there are some Here on youtube.  Yeah, like I'm pretty sure that this is just like true, right? Humans are more receptive to negative information because it's often beneficial to be more receptive to negative information Like if you're receptive to negative information, you will counter potential threats to you, which is just a good That's just a good strategy, right? Like dealing with problems seeking out problems and solving them is better than just being like nice and chill Like and always looking for More positive information. I could be wrong on that but well and and to be fair You're not saying that it's definitive that to focus on a negative is to uh be beneficial or whatever It's just that that's probably more complicated than that or possibly how it would have developed Well, it's just why why is there more bad news than good news, you know A lot of the time why is the stuff that people pay most attention to and headline something that's bad Well, yeah, why isn't a headline all of the pipes are currently working? Yeah, yeah exactly Otherwise like something that's going wrong or something that's contentious that people disagree with Uh like, you know incendiary or yeah, just stressful concerning That's the 10 that that's the kind of information that often gets uh disseminating gets a lot of attention Exceptions people do like positive commentary everyone I fucking hate this as if as if this positive commentary on movies throughout youtube, it's everywhere Like yeah, I don't even know where to begin like yeah But these channels they're mainly positive or even exclusively positive. It's like, okay Is that bad then like by your own metric my biggest personal pet peeve is when Again when people throw around the word like masterpiece and perfect and like a lot of people might you know Disagree with this or find this offensive, but when I say the last of us, okay I haven't seen the show at that point But it was like one or three episodes in and there were a bunch of like video essays and criticism or not criticism video essays Popping up in my feet saying that it was perfect. It was the best like in in its genre and stuff like that This show was three episodes in how can you make such ambitious statements based on three episodes? Like it does not matter if those three episodes are perfect. You're saying the show Is perfect and it's the best. How can you make that judgment based on like the third of Its first season and that's so blowing out of proportion in my opinion I mean in fairness people also did that with velma after the first two episodes were out Well, that it's the worst show in the history of shows. You're like, how could you know you've already seen two episodes? Yeah, it gets really better from here guys What's kind of funny about that to me is that the velma one feels more reasonable because it's harder to maintain quality than it is To maintain disaster, right? It's just like, yeah Just kind of how it works The first two episodes catastrophically and that is a sign for the rest of it Wait, did you say you think something? Oh, I just uh, I'd yeah, I mean air in that case I think velma was actually So catastrophical and so bad. I think it was not, you know, that hard to make that judgment But the last of us could have turned turned out. Anyway, you know, it was good from the get-go You know, we can argue how good it was, you know, whether it was perfect or whatnot, but You know, well, we were changed it could have gone Either way, we weren't willing to say anything about the show as a whole really until the last credits of the last episode played Like, all right. Now we can talk about the season as a whole Uh, with with this though, like he's already set out at least it seems to me that like too much focus on negativity It's like though there are people who engage with channels who uh, you know, much more positive and like it's only You know, he's got rip these channels It's seen as a a negative that they're not producing content as much or not at all anymore I'm just saying you're like, well, wouldn't this just be the problem in reverse if they were exclusively positive? Or are we okay with exclusively positive? I am assuming we are that seems to be the position A lot of these people kind of take is on a map that position It's like it shouldn't just be negative and it's like shouldn't just be positive either, right? And then they'd be like, well, no, that's okay.  Yeah Get out of here It still exists. It's not gone anywhere. No, it's that We would be seen as probably an exclusively negative podcast or something and say god We got so many like explicitly hyper positive episodes breaking things down But I'm sure many people don't even know or who you know, don't watch the show And that goes the same for so many different channels There'll be channels that I imagine drinkers seem probably as exclusively negative when he's not Makes loads of positive coverage, but oh, well cynicism here It's kind of like Highlighting the negativity bias not only explains why the content's created Maybe with a bias to negativity, but it also seems why it's perceived that way The bias would work that side of it too, right? Like if a creator puts out, you know, five positive and two negative But no, sorry five negative and two positive a person might come away with saying like god, you're always just always negative Like no, there was positive stuff there. You just didn't really remember it Yeah, people are very quick to typecast both content and the opinions of people just out and about yeah Here on youtube, you know, obviously there are some notable exceptions People do like positive commentary every once in a while and of course there are other correlations like just a general popularity of what's being reviewed You know if your favorite creator makes it so hard for me to take this seriously when it's been known Forever that the sort of shill side of youtube, right? Like the the newest marvel film coming out everyone raves about it Says the most amazing thing ever that's that's a very profitable side of youtube It's a very engaged with side of youtube. It's not just marvel. Of course.  Like uh, what was it? Where atman came out. It was like atman is the best mc movie since was it Wakanda forever? Yeah, the last one Okay I can't wait for the flash Yeah, which will what's that's going to be? Oh, it's going to be amazing And you will get every opinion on that you'll have people saying it's the worst movie ever people saying it's the best movie ever We've already got people saying it's uh What kind of amazing which how the hell does that motherfucker? Still have a job. I don't know I don't know it baffles the mind First there are other correlations like just the general popularity of what's being reviewed You know if your favorite creator makes a review of a star wars movie or a marvel movie You can problem Why did you say favorite creator and then put up chris duckman?  Wow rags That's cruel just because chris duckman is cruel and boring. You know boring and what was the other thing? No, I wouldn't be cruel cruel is like an emotion or some sort of uh, it's a little flavor in life He's just very there Very neutral videos that exist He's made some of the videos is one of the movie reviewers of all time one of well. Yeah I do not not like him. I don't know I don't like him Well, I'll say I don't like his work. I I'm fine with him. Yeah. Yeah We guarantee that's gonna get more views than some random indie film. No one's ever heard of but that's that's very That's just normal Yeah, I guess he's saying that though. Is he just saying like, yeah, that's how that's also like this is a caveat, right? I guess so but like what is this um It seems like it's like beyond I guess Yeah, is it meant to I think he's saying like, um You know, there's like exceptions, right if people would just be interested in popular stuff anyway regardless of whether it's positive or negative I think Yeah But I mean that's kind of like popular stuff is more popular, right? Like it's a little bit Well, that's what I mean is sorry was this was the this fruitful as I didn't know. We'll just keep going in general I'm I'm generalizing here. There is something that we just love about watching a creator Absolutely dunk on a film or tv show. It's You guys ever watch Someone who's very talented do the opposite like explain why something is really really really good And how enjoyable that can be. I just feel like there's um There's not as many people who are ready to do that or know how to do that. Well, it's just it's interesting, right? Because he had the example of uh Every frame of painting. Yeah, that was a really popular channel Like those those videos got a lot they get spread around and posted everywhere obviously, you know, like negativity is like a thing that people will uh It's a thing that gets around but like positivity also gets around too Like I mean I mean you see it like on twitter sometimes right when like a particular portion of a film or like a film in particular Like it just gets everybody excited and happy about it And then they'll start talking about all of the things that they liked about it Sharing art for it. Like there's definitely like a positive feedback cycle as well that exists It's just that um, it might be something that you you gotta You don't even need to look for it sometimes Well, because it's like it's just there it's super interesting You just said it that way because that's not even considered I doubt he considers like a huge community on any forum sharing their passion about um a movie or a tv show to be Positive criticism or anything. He probably doesn't even associate it at all. Even though that's huge and that's all part of it Which I guess is also odd though, even though he has like the definition that he prefers for criticism that are just like neutral Like I guess it's almost like why isn't it reflecting in like the kinds of things that he's able to find or that he pursues or that just make his way to him and then he Notices and pays attention to you know I made that kind of video about mega mind and I was like this video is not going to do well Like nobody's going to watch it. Nobody will care. Well, like people loved it people did watch it and I mean I talked about it very very positively and people people watched it and It It gets views positivity. I mean exists on this platform and there are quite a lot of positive People and content creators But people you know guys like this don't want to admit that We have people when mentioning when arcane came out I could not look at my youtube feed for like a day without seeing three or four video essays from channels I've never heard of and never seen again Just talking about why something to do with arcane is really good. Yeah Almost exclusively positive coverage of arcane If anything all that does is really highlight that um, it maybe maybe the broader umbrella for what people are looking for is something that's like Exciting whether that be like hyper positive or hyper negative something that's like as opposed to just you know This film was pretty mediocre, you know five out of ten and it's like all right on to the next Discussion about a film that's like really mediocre and lame and not interesting Right, it's like maybe maybe there's a broader umbrella. There's that and the reaffirmation thing Um arcane was loved by people so people are seeking out videos that celebrate it Um, yeah, maybe you find out new reasons to like it, you know Quantamania comes down everyone's like what the hell was that they want to watch videos tear get apart Yeah, I personally enjoyed many reviews. Sorry go ahead Yeah In terms of arcane I had so many like requests in the comments like everyone was begging for me to make a video about it But the reason I didn't make it is because I I just felt like I could not say anything more because there was so much positive coverage I I felt like I didn't have anything to add to the conversation There were so many things being said and all of them were positive So I'm glad for that Yeah, like I I like looking at reviews for uh Pussin boots too. It's a super great movie and I enjoy watching positive coverage on that movie So many positive things about that film reached me long before I ever saw it. Just yeah, same feedback glutes Yeah, I had friends telling me to see it immediately. There's no what where's the video movie, huh?  We need more understanding of the art form We need to meet the art where it is instead of just celebrating it exclusively just for the hell You know, it's like nobody's ever gonna make that video nobody And maybe you should examine that and why why is it that we uh We consider it exclusively positive stuff to just be a given a pass and work that way Twofold, you know, we either want to see a critic just absolutely tear of film to shreds Or we want to be in the bloodbath of a comment section Just going at the critic for daring to criticize something that we personally love. It's like I don't really know.  There are a lot of factors So nothing new people like to talk about things Nothing new Just I can't get over the fact that this is like why is this about the recent years of youtube? Just this is just all time A person is enthused one way or the other about something or another they feel the need to tell someone I almost feel like you need a meme of just two Very early on humans one of them just eats a berry and says man. Do I love these berries and the other one just looks at him of frowns Those ones suck taste and berry He's was better There's a play as to how we got into this storm But before we talk about any of that there is a very important series of videos that Absolutely need to be brought up Oh This is one of the most annoying talking points on the internet. Oh I think it ruined it Yeah, well, we'll see what he has to say about it The plinket reviews will always be brought up in any conversation about online criticism and that's for good reason You know it obviously there are other pioneers like lindsay ellis or other people Not like No, uh, no, I'm sorry not not not the same as plinket. YMS should be mentioned before lindsay ellis Channel awesome including even the nostalgia critic No, you got that backwards Nostalgia critic and maybe This is so pandery It's almost like a A reformatic of history like yeah nostalgia critic was hyper influential not lindsay ellis She came she copied him man. Yeah. She used to work for him. She was the nostalgic chick She she created videos in the same vein. She's talked about how she didn't even like having to do it I'm pretty sure anyway This this is silly Nobody likes to acknowledge it But yeah, uh dug had a huge influence on how people reviewed media that is true same with plinket The same with a lot of the early creators lindsay ellis, um, I would say her like More so like she became much more popular way later Again there are other adjacent channels like cinemasins that we could talk about that are playing a hand in how we see criticism today nitpicking is not criticism Except it literally is it is that's exactly literally is The way you have to trans is something that isn't criticism to translate this to I assume someone like him.  And he's like, yeah And you'd be like and you mean a thing that shouldn't be mentioned because it doesn't mean anything, right? He probably like, uh, yeah, sure Be like, why can't I mention it? Why can't it be indicative of a grander problem?  It's uh, if you mean stuff being said that doesn't mean shit Just say that nitpicking should be saved for just small criticisms that are valid I think the problem is that nitpicking is such it's like a it's it's just It's a doomed word really like it's uh, it's so laden with a baggage Well, it's um, the only problem with like because I get I'm on board with the idea if we kind of just don't use it But every time they use it, it's like well, what do you mean? And it's like cinemasins exclusively nitpicking. It's like, well, no, cinemasins does bring up some valid stuff a lot Is that they like they have inaccurate like they're just inaccurate a lot of the time And then often that's what the problem is like but it means it's comedy or something like they have a lot of weird It's like some of them are apparently deliberately false Some of them are meant to be jokes But like it's hard to tell and so it's hard to understand like what you're meant to be pulling from those videos It's not that they're nitpicking when you know like If you spot like a boom mic in The room or something like that and then he's like that's nitpicking. It's like, okay Well, what am I not allowed to point that out? That's pretty funny It's a frustrating habit of beating around the bush in terms of the critical sphere where people are desperate for anything Other than just talking about the actual points because you can talk about proportionality if you want Say, you know, this point doesn't matter that much. It's not that damaging overall Like I don't know. There's a boom mic in this shot, but like that's not good I don't think anyone would say that's good, but it's not exactly a film destroying issue You can say that really easily but for some reason there's this compulsion to go No, that's a nitpick. Therefore it's invalid.  Doesn't it get incredibly funny though? That was a nitpick. It's your nitpicking If over let's say half an hour someone makes a hundred points And 80 of them are substantive and 20 of them are nitpicks and then a person watches that and says you're just nitpicking What have they done to that work? They've just nitpicked it Oh the cycle it continues And then you start to realize wait a minute. Was it just humans all along? It's like, yeah, that's what we do That's just our thing About that are playing a hand in how we see critical. Yeah, I Uh, there's no way that we would ever disagree with the idea that cinema sins has had a hand in, you know Influencing other creators and possibly even moviemaking, but I've always hated the the doom version of it Which is like cinema sins destroyed the film industry And just shut up shut up what you find directors and writers promoting if ever videos They usually promote the video essay types the 20 minute ones to talk about a particular subject Never see a director saying like cinema sins made an incredible video on my film and I will forever be you know Like I will do better The only what I could think of is the guy who made Kong skull island.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure he shed on him. I remember um, Anthony Hawkins shared Video essay, but it was about his acting in westwild. It wasn't like It was positive. It was exclusive positive. I'm trying to think of every time I've ever seen Mike Flanagan shared video essays that are exclusively positive about, you know, haunting of hill house and black manor On youtube like I just I never see a director saying like Oh that cinema sins. He's he's got his finger on the pulse of film He knows what's going on Cinema sins mastered the algorithm and people are pissed about it Yeah, um, yeah It appeals to a common denominator with people enjoy like I've said this before I think it was one of uh, it's a stream We did on jay's channel, but I never really liked cinema sins and it was mainly because I was like, but that's not right That's not right and someone would have said like, you know, you're not uh, you're not consuming it the right way This is supposed to just be for fun He's just trying to find things to comment on things to poke at and just to have some fun And I'm pretty sure the creator would even say that but that for me that wasn't enough I was just like, yeah, but it's the jokes aren't funny to me because they're inaccurate So it doesn't work. I'm not I'm not having fun. And then obviously the criticism doesn't work at that point either um There's plenty of people who loved it for that It should be like I'm watching the movie again in a quick format and he's pointing out some stuff It's kind of like on trailers. They just make jokes I'd say pitch meeting is now probably the greatest version of that format of running through a thing again and pointing out the main uh, I guess I saw all points of praise does pitch me and do praise What does he only do criticism? Well negative I don't actually know um Someone in chat will though, but uh, because I only have a know it in a context of negative Criticism today nitpicking is not criticism and even cinema sense would not argue with me on that but I don't care. Let's just not kid ourselves at all. Let's not even pretend to find it Like the plinket reviews are not the template that we are all working with and I'm just going to go ahead and say it I love the plinket reviews. Do I think that some aspects of them have aged poorly? Yes, do I think that they sometimes function? What was the title of this part? What was it? What's the title of this plinket ruined everything? So it's not going to be plinket spot, right?  If not funnier. I'm sorry.  Yes, do I think that they sometimes function better as comedy than criticism? Also, yes, but do I also think that they are some of the best videos on youtube and that they're often Hilarious and insightful and that we as a platform. Oh a ton to these videos 100% but they ruined everything But I think that the plinket reviews have given us a very limited and warped perspective on what criticism can be Is it what what can it be? But like if anyone watching some plinket review and goes, ah, this is criticism. This is what it is There are no other ways to do the thing. I found it in the test. You've distilled down. This is pure criticism The I think he just wanted to find a nice way of saying he ruined everything. He's trying to keep to the The the chapter I just wish I was never born Don't necessarily think is the fault of mike staclasa or anyone at red letter media I consider it more of an unintended consequence just like how when mike said in the star trek 2009 plinket review that JJ abrams would be really good at directing star wars movies I don't think he thought for a second that would ever manifest itself into reality Or that it would come in the form of something like the rise of skywalker Just he said all of this so Yeah, he did say that he couldn't believe years ago.  That's like, oh, isn't that a joke in community for you. We've talked about it before but Jeff's like political thing where he's He points out people in the audience names them and talks about their story But everyone he points to is always just like Well, it's just he's pointing vaguely at the crowd, but nobody knows who he's talking about. Yeah, he's not talking about anybody He's making them up Option of online criticism No, really the plinket reviews first and foremost function as catharsis. What kind of I guess that's all reviews That's just yeah people are looking for someone to share their opinion or someone's looking to share their opinion and get it off their chest And then you go even more fundamental We like it when we meet someone else and they go, hey, I think thing is thing and you go. Oh, I think thing is thing Yeah, this is the good chemical We should we should form a tribe Inspired you to start doing these reviews. Well, the the very first review is generations Yeah, I I was a huge next generation fan as a kid, you know growing up and whatnot And when I saw that look at how young Mike is in full life full of life You know, it's it's so weird to look at him when he's before the dark times and Before the alcohol and the best of the words started to kick in Movie in the theaters. I just I hated it. Yeah, so I had a lot of free time and I just said, you know I'm gonna make a video Detailing all the points about why I don't like this movie or why I thought it didn't work Yeah, and and so I made that and I just made it for the intention of just for myself Just just to do it. Yeah, and so I put it on youtube and it started to get Yeah, it started to get momentum and people liked it. I was like, okay But when the copycats naturally emerged they didn't name them Name them you fool do it. I'm curious if any bigger names you would consider a copycat Really take away his genuineness or his authenticity Something Mike himself mentioned in plinkets the star was awakens review.  That's like a whole other thing So the implication that um, he's downstream of of it is just like And I'm happy by the way to concede I'd be happy to concede the influence like if yms I'm sure yms thinks plinket has made great videos and was influenced by it But like let's not let's not do it this way is everyone influenced by rogery But is that where everyone comes from for criticism? Is that the core or did he get influenced by someone too? And it and then everyone can get drawn back to like we said aug judging that berry And the thing is I mean, I don't like the fact that we're criticizing people for content creators For you know mimicking like not mimicking but like being influenced by others because I mean I'm not that you know, I'm pretty new to youtube and I mean, it's it's much easier and it's the only way you can do this thing from the beginning, right? You just start, you know doing what you know and what you've seen other people do and you Slowly start to you know find yourself with this you start start to find your voice and the way you speak and the way you edit And it's only natural that you are being influenced by what you've seen even if you don't intentionally do it I've noticed that with my older videos Like when I look back in my first video, I can't even recognize myself. I can't recognize the way. I'm speaking my voice Like it's so obvious that I'm being influenced by other creators that I've been watching years before Interesting you say that because as a couple people have pointed out there is if you go back to the earliest yms videos Uh, they're like plinkets or at least he's his goal is to try and um create similar Uh format sort of stuff and um, I believe Uh, they've been influences like that with a lot of different people. We've had on Uh, on even on this podcast that they'll start out Um, primarily influenced by one person and then what happens like it did like that lasted what like a year at most with yms For a decade. He's had such a unique, uh, Is his his format at this point like what he does Plinkets is his and you know and so on I've I've said before like uh, Tall biscuit is one of my bigger influences and you'd be like how and it's like well, that's a great point It's at this point my combinations of different influences have changed into its own video. That's just what happens Um, it's advice given in pretty much every creative field That's definitely how I started out as well influenced by other people like my my early videos were Very very similar to I hate everything's stuff And then that's how it was for a while But then you develop your own voice and you kind of make your own style and kind of branch off from that Well, at least most people do well and you eventually realize you're just describing. Oh, that's just how it always works That's always how it works And yeah, what's kind of gross here is that we formatted this to say all of these people Copied plinket but don't have the sincerity or the the um sort of comedic value. It's like, oh wow Okay That seems a little bit harsh Urge they didn't really take away his genuineness or his authenticity And it seems like what they took away was that catharsis is not simply a function of criticism But that it is criticism in its entirety the plinket.  You got me.  How does anything develop if everyone just only ever sticks with what is currently the thing? Well, I'd love to ask in him like what are your boundaries doing new things It's so funny that he credited Lindsay Alice is one of the most influential and like major contributors when she like She was a branch of nostalgia critic Yeah, that's just factually wrong. I mean she started her like When she picked up as a single youtuber. It was much much later. Yeah Yeah, she became her own she because this is the thing I've seen plenty of videos from her that I thought were very good Uh, I think her hobbit videos are very good, but You know like the idea that She's she's a some kind of trailblazer that wasn't you know a direct literal copycat This is like, I don't know man feels like we're picking and choosing who we like and don't like You know because I don't like cinema sins. None of us We've ever covered him thought that the videos are really good But I don't like the idea of locking out the idea that there's nothing sincere or insightful about his videos ever Yeah, his videos are bad But I would never discount the idea of like the good version of his videos That are out there that he just doesn't do Um, I would never discount those or I wouldn't want to discourage people from doing those I mean that's film criticism It's really frustrating to me because it's like he's legitimately just trying to invalidate people's feelings Well, does it not come across that he has a selection of approved critics a selection of disproved ones And he's like, you know, the problem is those ones the disapproved ones. They're ruining everything You're like, oh It's an interesting video. Tell me about it.  Everyone is no one considers that controversial That's safe. It's safe to do that now. It's okay You know this template of just shitting on a film for the entertainment of the audience. What's wrong with that? Yeah, because it's funny, which is fun It's just fun, man.  Because he's becoming a filmmaker and he doesn't want people to do what he did to other filmmakers. That's why Because he doesn't want to talk bad about other people in the industry Which is another good point too. And that's actually not exactly unwise To get away from being like Again, I hate this director and then they're like Yeah, that guy has an agent that is working with this and they connected to that producing this this and they just don't like you at This point because of that.  He's trying to get into the industry. Of course. He's gonna stop Randomly ranting about movies. That's not gonna help you get into hollywood, is it? Uh It's um this video turned slowly into why are people having fun?  Why are they being so negative? I don't get it chris is gonna make his video the Something oaks elby oaks.  It was in focus. There you go. I could hear the actors City reviews where he just tears apart and laughs at the failures of filmmakers good for him I wish you'd go back to doing that a bit more seems like look at that thumbnail on the top right there. That is an emotion He's feeling something usually you get the top left one where it's like. Oh that that's That's something he's feeling something That's not even a face that you put on if you're trying to display no emotion. That's just actually not having an emotion It looks very default Uh, but I had no emotion or a thousand yards stare and I'm not sure which We we I think we had a look at some of his thumbnails before and some of the expressions he makes are hilarious You have no idea what he's feeling. He's just like It's that sound but in thumbnail form It's why do you think he bowed out of the negativity rat race entirely or you can look at other like I said because he's making his own films But also that doesn't that doesn't even seem to follow right? Why would he why do you think he bowed out? Like look at how popular his negative videos were. Why do you think he bowed out of making negative videos? Like I think you know what I mean? He wants us to connect the chris realized the negativity Cells and thus he's adding to the negative atmosphere and environments. We needed to stop No, that no it is exactly what's been said It's because it's more beneficial if he wants to break into like the film industry to not be Critical of other people's work Yeah combined with the fact that he's not looking forward to people saying your movie was shit And here's my hilariousity review of your movie People will do it There's a filmmakers Why do you think he bowed out of the negativity rat race entirely?  I'm not throwing any shade.  That is just my opinion.  It's like what?   So it's it's not reflected like basically the point being they make positive and negative but negative is bad Like I feel like this is so awkward to to understand that he even realizes it Don't human humans I'm kind of just lost as to what he's even going after at this point guys getting very rambly I'm not throwing any shade their way at all But even if it's not reflective of every piece of criticism they've ever given The names alone kind of tell you where their headspace was at. Oh my god. Now you're nitpicking What is this like wow That I'm not throwing shade, but their very identity is reflective of like their uh of an attitude that I don't like Yeah, that's good So can't be tongue-in-cheek. It can't be fun. It has to be indicative of this wider cultural issue that we need to stamp out Oh fun, please My profile picture or whatever it is called like it's baby yota, right? And it's not because my headspace was it was at some point where I was like worshiping mandalorian or baby yota It was a complete accident When it became a meme I just like made it a picture, you know and uh Yeah, and then I never changed it. So it's stuck But sometimes those kinds of accidents happen, you know, they don't have to mean anything, you know And now, you know, I don't know what to change it to so it's it's still here So I think that can also be a factor. It does not have to mean so much, you know I think that's really put a lot of stock in exactly what they call their channel and how they present themselves on youtube necessarily Well, why am I supposed to tell if you said wait adam You have videos that are positive even though your channel is called your movie sucks and it's described as I'll tell you Why your movie sucks you'd be like, uh-huh You're like, but that doesn't make sense at all I don't understand.  We're descendants of descendants. So we probably won't get mentioned Hope it won't be long enough when you join the platform, right? Like again, it's catharsis It's like when yms makes a video about the lion king 2019 As someone who has absolutely no nostalgia or investment in the lion king at all when i'm watching that video I am right there with him.  Does he gonna is he gonna talk about it? But like After i'm done watching the video. I kind of just sit there and think Is this really all there is he didn't mention it. So what else does yms do in that video?  What is also this like is this all there is what a really well made analysis of uh It's just it's just annoying to me like uh He's done the thing he's accusing everyone off He watched a video that had praise and criticism in it and he's come away with Oh, it's so just criss negative so negative Like the negativity is just all there is when it's literally not all there is no Have you considered that the negativity comes from the positivity of something that he loves that it's taping? It's like come on now People do this in the positive sense too. You see memes fly around all the time If like sitting down to watch a seven hour video on a game You've never played or whatever, you know and just being engaged the whole time Just because hearing people talk about things they care about positively or negatively is engaging and it's cathartic in some sense When he says like the voice acting is fucked up in the new one You'll then play a clip from the old one and explain why that's really good Then it's like, oh the the hit remember when he talks about like how they had to create new technology in order to Simulate the hoods in the the hood sequence in the original.  It's like what do you mean? Why are you being so negative? That's all there is That's that's the that's the vibe. So let's see what he what else he says Like is this all criticism can be on the platform? I really hate that he used the lion king video as an example. It's one of the best videos for criticism. It is one of the Best videos. It's worse part two man. I gotta have part two It's so extensive using all the unlike its goal as a video is to yes tear down the 2019 disaster But to prop up the original to be like this fucker There's a reason why everyone loved it It's like, oh, is this all Also, there's one guy one video from one guy creators who could be right off to do something completely different The fuck of course, this isn't all criticism is criticism can take all sorts I really don't think it's fair to have to compare YMS's liking video to Chris Stockman's Stockman's anything It really it really is not fair to compare them. No, it's not Is well the idea that Chris stuck but did the correct thing and stopped doing criticism It's like what you want us to not have any more Lion King videos from YMS really Is that the better thing to do now? This what we're stuck with forever And again, I want to make this as clear as possible that I am not here to just point fingers at all these people and say You're doing it wrong What are you saying? Did he not just say they're doing it wrong? Well, that is the question. What were you saying for the last couple minutes? Maybe all there is which is, you know implicitly belittling what they're doing Yeah Well, the implication was that Chris Stockman made the correct decision by not doing it anymore. So I lost the plot of this video so long ago. I just take it word by word Sentence by sentence. I'm like, I don't I don't know what's going on This is the stand by anything You've been very negative right now Every single thing you say is a choice to mitigate and like run back a little bit the platform because These are all people whom I love in respect without red letter media without yms. There is no me and as I keep saying I don't even is that even a good argument like I'm gonna shit on them And but then I want to say no we're buddies and friends. I like them Don't they come across a strange argument though to be like I'm not shitting on them because without them there is no me Like we'll That's kind of irrelevant, right? Maybe you're part of the problem, you know Like if you subscribe to the claims that you're making There's plenty of negative things that can happen events and people in your life that can lead to you being you Does that make them positive now or neutral? I'm doing it too and I'm trying to understand why all the chance It's really not that complicated Yeah um, I feel like uh You just you just saw too many in a row that you thought Were really mean to things you liked maybe and it just seems to be maybe what will happen I don't know channels I mentioned and what they create are just cogs in this big Negativity machine which speaking of machines. We have to talk about Transformers the algorithm Here we go And negative that's right. We're going to talk about that nebulous thing called the algorithm that every video uploaded to this platform Is filtered through the thing that you've probably heard a ton of creators talk about already and and yet none of us are really sure Exactly how it works like at this point. I'm not even fully convinced that youtube knows exactly how it works But if there's one thing that I know for certain is that the algorithm loves Why do you think that might be? Does it even why do you think it might be a lot of positive stuff? It's probably the first is uh, is the first question worth it It just I like the idea that it's like, I hate that thing that was derived directly from human nature Well, that is the complicated discussion right of like whether or not Um, the way that a social media platform works enables behavior or if it's like more of like a feedback loop, you know Like kind of a self-fulfilling Probably yeah, it's like how can I recommend it sucks so bad like well I mean, I'm more broadly of like how does social media influence human behavior or and how does that human behavior influence What the platform feeds to you and then how does that then further influence behavior, right? Like what are the What are the effects of social media right on like the broad psychology of humanity? Has it changed like the human psychology or is social media a reflection of human psychology? You know, like it's it's that kind of question. It's probably both That just just makes sense to me They both feed into each other And it becomes a huge thing Well, that's what raises a question right the algorithm Uh promotes negativity. It's like Does the algorithm promote anything or does the algorithm just reflect people's interests? Uh, yeah, well, I gotta say how does any algorithm start? It's probably going to be the most simple version ever of 10 videos go out Video three and eight. I've been watched a lot. All right, put them in recommended That was probably the first algorithm Which which was watched a lot but that one in people's recommendations. They're more likely to watch through like that Yeah, there was of course the question of the objective of basically any social media company with ads as their principle business model is to Improve retention. Yeah, they want you there as long as possible. It's the reason why YouTube has skewed over the years towards longer stuff longer stuff means more ads means more retention Uh human beings seem to like doing what they're currently doing and the longer that you can keep them engaged And so it's like then there's a question of how The algorithm influences the kind of stuff that people will be incentivized to make based on what people You know want to watch the point being is really complicated I don't think you could talk about it meaningfully and however much time we have left in this video presuming that The rest of the video is about this topic Um, I feel like we're only going to get pretty simplistic claims Or incomplete claims as we go forward This isn't unique to youtube either I've used this clip of frances haugen the facebook whistleblower before but I think that the clip bears repeating here and one of the consequences of how facebook is picking out that content today Is it is optimizing for content that gets engagement or reaction? But its own research is showing That content that is hateful that is divisive that is polarizing It's easier to inspire people to anger than it is to other emotions you make videos talking positively about movies So hasn't he just stumbled across it not being film related at all? Well, that's that's the thing that's sort of been mentioned already right negativity bias in people It's not like it's some because he mentioned there are we mentioned that We'd mentioned it. I don't really even talk about it. He's been very focused specifically on youtube film criticism Which is such a like I mean, obviously it's a big sort of part of like youtube but like comparative to just all the things in the world that people watch Yeah, it's very it's niche Um, yeah, it's niche And that um, I love how I love how like, um, he manages to say like Well, uh, people click a lot on negative stuff So his fix for that and solution is to just not be negative Just stop being negative because people click on it Yeah, like what is the solution wrong the answer? I think is that there is no problem This is people being negative When they don't mean it and they're just doing it for clicks. That's the problem It'd be like insincerity is the problem as we talked about before Yeah, where's the section that explains why this needs to change and why this isn't delving into now on this is like negativity just It's uh, kind of like complicated what negativity means and where it comes from right Negativity can come from a place of like admiration for the medium Somebody could be really mad at a film because I don't know what's a sequel to a story that they loved And then it did damage to that and um, and so it's like what What uh, what motivates negativity if you want to define it all as like one word I mean that's probably worth delving into right as like a part of how people should be negative You know, there's not just like it should not be negative prime examples Is the lion king video from yms, which is just like damn dude that why do you think he made that video? Because he loves the original How do you muster that level of passion that like uh for to to like delve into explaining why you know Something is really really bad Like how do you muster that?  And like yeah, but it's negative.  It's just that's not that's not helpful positive and negative It's like what does that even mean? You know when we talk about the definition of criticism We want to get it like what is the what about the degrees of negativity? What's the difference between like light criticism versus like absolute vitriol? Or the motivations are like what you focus on specifically like as part of a negative critique if you want to call it that What does it even mean for something to be negative? Is it something that has 100 negative criticisms 90 percent 80 percent? Like when do we cross the threshold into negative criticism? Or is it just the points that are being made? So in which case we shouldn't be looking at like the thumbnail or the title of the video as reflective of the totality of the video's point Well, he's starting to wonder if it's all just Presentational to him if it's all in the presentation of negativity If you say if you say criticism in an upbeat voice it'd be okay. It's like this is really bad No Tone seems to heavily influence the way that people will read something even like the order in which you say something can influence Um, because like some people are just more receptive to tone than they are to like what is literally being said or like body language or something, you know So, yeah, I wonder if you sat in a peppy upbeat voice like why something is absolutely terrible if it almost like slides under the radar Or like you said CJ compliments sandwich Well, I mean you have Why am I sorry on why this video online king was filled with compliments to the film, but you didn't mention it What if you just really dry in your appraisal like I don't know say mathematosis or something Oh, dude, you probably didn't even realize I don't even know if he knows what that is because he's he's clearly consumed by film review Well, I saw some video game Some video game cases on the on that shelf there.  That's true It's easier to inspire people to anger and it is to other emotions you make videos talking positively about movies Nobody panics But you make one little video about Jeffrey Dahmer and put the joker in the thumbnail and Everyone loses their minds Did they lose their minds or did they just like it? What do you mean again the difference is that the show was out and it was I think Topical at that time and a lot of people wanted to hear about it and many people had like a lot a lot of people didn't like that And probably wanted to hear somebody explain why it was bad So I don't understand really why he's surprised by this This this it feels like a misuse of the meme too.  I'm gonna praise love and thunder and it actually made more than every other one I don't know what's going on Well, I guess that's uh, yeah You'd be like everyone lost their minds Everyone's shouting me for saying that love and thunder was good because that's off script Like that would make way more sense The positivity is when everybody loses their minds What am I doing and of course it takes to detango, right? Like the algorithm would not be pushing these negative videos onto people If people stopped clicking on them, but That's not gonna happen because of a little thing called negativity bias. Oh my goodness. Maybe you should have started with this Yeah, this is a pretty poorly structured, but you're implicitly invalidating them again. Stop it Wait invalidating people clicking or the people making the videos the people making them He's saying these things shouldn't be like recommended around so much Even though yeah, but and it's so nuts because I would probably have cited the lying king video by yms It's like I wonder if he would include that.  It's like no Not to go white knighting, but you're being like really rude to these creators right now Well, remember they are blink it without the sincerity and the humor I love how he's invalidating other people for being negative while also being very severely negative Towards so many things in his own video including the title Well, this is a I I'm sure it's a you know the phenomena of like You say something negative why you saw opinionated you say something that's positive Hey, good for you.  Where is the positivity bias video? Where's the positivity, you know conversation? So annoying that I can be as straight.   So like the But like marvel for example, like if anybody goes out there thoroughly praising Any of like like take the like MOM or I mean people did praise Like when it came out that was because again the hype cycle of people getting themselves super amped up and excited for something is like It's part of the discussion. I think should be So it's like it's it's all over the place, but like people are seen as much worse for having Criticized rather than praised Hmm That being a cognitive bias that makes our negative experiences and feelings affect us more significantly than our positive ones and When you design your algorithm to prioritize engagement, it is going to utilize negativity bias I might want to be careful. Um, I believe this sound this track is copyrighted Oh Yeah, I want to be careful with that one Well rip dream I guess I'll pause a lot and talk a lot if you guys can manage to do Uh, I feel like it was it would be worthwhile for him to talk a little bit about why People have a negativity bias and maybe like the reasons like the positive, you know The advantages from negativity bias like or why it would have arisen Or how, you know, how much of a link is there between the psychology of you know, how we remember and filter our positive and negative experiences to Film criticisms being negative or positive to movies because film criticism. That's negative doesn't give me a negative feeling It's not a it is a positive experience for me to watch a Video that is negative about Eggs because I mean think about like storytelling conflict, right conflict is negative in a sense Like or like, you know, when you watch a film that makes you cry because it's sad It's like you're seeking out Quite and quite negative feelings, but like for overall broadly, you know positive experience of consuming art Yeah, if something bad happens to you the death of a loved one or a traumatic event that happens to you Yes, it will shape you very impactfully But that's different than watching a video that you enjoy Being critical of something in a negative way. That's a positive experience for you The Algorithm is obviously not a human being it does not care what emotion it elicits out of you in order to create engagement It only cares about Engagement and when anger and negativity are the easiest ways to do that That is what it is going to do and over time As the algorithm continues to prey upon your cognitive biases This creates a culture that essentially attempts at every moment to negate the user's impulse control. I swear Uh, I see a title that is shitting over something And I think it'll be fun. I click on it. I'm I'm not like I'm I'm not on autopilot, you know, give me a little bit of credit here I also I don't know. Um, isn't the ultimate solution here then to be like We can't allow the algorithm to prey Upon our impulse to like enjoy things that have an bias toward negativity. Therefore If we let it run wild and just give us the things that we want We will not benefit.   I'm like, hmm All right, maybe I'll give it a shot and then I list the video it being negative doesn't just automatically get a win from me Like this doesn't happen. I don't I don't buy this Um, it's oftentimes movies you've never watched movies you feel relatively bad or neutral on or movies You kind of hate that these videos do the best with And then you start to wonder Well, when would that make sense? It's like I guess if there was a plethora of bad movies If there's a lot of bad movies, there's probably gonna be a higher chance of there being a lot of criticism of those movies out there Well, that's certainly not happening. So No, not these days. No, this is good stuff So, yeah, because obviously he wouldn't be highlighting this if it wasn't like a bad thing that's happened as a result of Human nature and algorithm if it was to do with film being really shit And everyone's getting very tired of it.  They don't even think about it It's just autopilot. They click on the video.  What is This is a different topic This guy is just pissed that people have negative sort of feelings and anger I think he's just going through some kind of crisis But he could he cannot just take a human nature, which is you know It's human nature's part is Uh To be negative It's just a part of who we are and it's okay to be that way. I don't know why it has to be such a big deal for him Yeah, it's like i'm sorry. We don't make the rules here.  Why can't you put positive? Yeah, exactly. Why why if you don't like it don't watch it like that's so weird because As we said, this is this feels like a completely different thing that if anything could go against his whole series of points so far Yes, the people who are desperate things to be positive shit all over the people who are being negative about a film When it's like well, they're just being negative about a film now. You're being negative about them as people Yeah, isn't that worse? Neuron activation in this way yet they don't I have never met an individual who like they see something That has an objectionable opinion in it like they see a thumbnail or whatever or a title and then they go and click on it They go and dislike it. They go and write a comment and then they leave I've never met any individual operates in anything approaching this sort of way These are what we call theoretical people. He's highlighting this this scenario We're just some hateful goblin person is on the internet. They see this video It's like Dahmer is poopy and then they're like, ah And what is it? What does he think that he's learned from this like see that's negativity bias like what do you mean? It's like well, he sees a negative video and then he Gets negative and so he adds negativity to the video negativity bad and it's like couldn't you argue that all that came from him liking the show That would make those videos do worse I guess he's saying that the engagement of someone clicking on it to hate it is is good to or like that adds to the problem But I just don't get it at this point. We're practically advocating to stop being honest about what we think of things No, I guess I'm just thinking about something now like Would he like negativity bias would would we say that that reflects in like the kinds of movies that people go to watch? like when they go to the theater Or like actually not at all like broaden it out to everything Actively go out to well, I guess people actively seek out things that they think they're going to enjoy, right?  You know the the catharsis of like tearing into something that they dislike That that in and of itself is a kind of enjoyment similar to you know go and watch a film or play a video game But it's it's almost like film criticism isn't treated as like consumable in that kind of way as like a No, I'm trying to figure out in my head. So it's kind of I feel like that was uh Moving around negative movies people see movies that are like they give you they they're uncomfortable Or maybe they have bad endings or they're full of We're very like yeah, like what is horror if not pursuing the feeling of being terrified What is uh playing a really difficult game that makes you mad when you keep? Yeah, like these would be considered negative experiences.  Oh, no, he didn't go that far back.  That's why he makes it Where he was gonna go. I need to argue.  It's really weird that he's A yms review can only come from a place of like sincerity and passion and you could see that in it and Absolutely. Yeah, to treat it as anything less than that is it's it's kind of it's kind of it is insulting We even got a bad for why is lindsay ellis here for what are you? Like chris stuck my making a hilariously review of the cat's movies like yeah That's probably because that's just the thing to do sure If you told me that that was entirely done for the clicks like I could believe that I could also believe chris wanted to give Is a perspective on a movie Most of the time they they come across as all the same, but I don't get why the other two videos are here. I really don't yeah If you watch lindsay ellis's review of the hobbit, it's extensive The idea that she did it for clicks to be negative and stuff. It's like yeah And then if he said And if he said well, no, i'm not saying that i'm simply saying that when they created it They knew that the negativity would be something that would sort of you know motivate they were motivated They were influenced to make something negative because they knew people would click it. It's like, okay.  Whereas if your audience is used to Sort of lengthy in-depth analysis of good Stuff they will watch it and it will get promoted by the algorithm. They're really unfortunately. There is no like One perfect way to go about doing things Lindsay ellis has plenty of videos that praise shit that has millions of views as well Loads of creators do I just I find this blame Like they're incentivized to be negative like also positive also just making stuff People are incentivized to do to create things Dopamine head of watching number go up and up and up almost feel sad for him. It's like you can do that with praise you can You can Because in this case it's like you see talking about you, right? You're something like yourself Yeah, yeah because he experienced the fact that his negative video on dama As a show got so much engagement that he's now incentivized to keep making negative videos on things Mr monkey brain I've seen channels the With like fairly low sub counts or view accounts And then they make a specific video praising something that's outside of their usual wheelhouse in terms of topic And it pops off in the algorithm gets orders of magnitude more and literally change the trajectory of a channel I was my thing was long form breakdowns of video games until it wasn't It's this yugioh channel that's the one i'm specifically talking about who averages like 250,000 maybe viewers per video then you made an ultra kill video and it went to 1.3 million Damn Yeah, uh, you can have channels that uh go Hyper algorithm with two completely different videos like completely different genres and formats and just like well That's how it happened this idea that it's like well now I'm forced to make another I got to make another video about another tv show in a negative way It's like that's up to you, man. If that's what you take from this you go ahead I imagine that it's not just you being negative about the dama series I'm gonna go ahead and say it that video is probably good Or make some really good points in there. Who knows? And and then maybe they're accurate according to the tv show and that maybe you felt passionate because you felt Some way about that show and that's okay It's okay that people agreed with you and found it interesting or maybe we're just engaged by it Because it was an interesting perspective. Why does it have to be? It's negative and therefore that's why it happened It's like he's um ashamed of himself or something Kind of like this this is mea culpa video for oh, I'm not really like this. I know my video did well, but I'm so sorry I've never I've never seen a youtuber beat this upset about doing well Well Yeah, well, yeah, that's a whole thing That is a whole thing items recently did a new content cop on items crazy And let me just be honest with you here for a second I'm sitting here thinking Why am I wasting my time making this video? About a subject that I'm clearly very passionate about and invested in that a video that I'm putting a lot of love and care into That I think is important that probably not a lot of people will watch when I could just make eight or nine more videos about why american horror story sucks um Because like different people are motivated by different things. I assume you know by more than making money It's because young man you see in life Sometimes the things that make us the most amount of money are not necessarily the things that we want to do the most And so which way will you go?  Well, doesn't it feel like an intro video to youtube? It's like you can make something and then it can get high engagement and praise and view counts and therefore Monetization, but it could be something you don't want to make You go Incredible so I could make something that like does well, but that isn't something i'm passionate about You know, it's like you can you can like do whatever you want, man There's what else can you say to it?  I couldn't make it work or whatever. No, it's fine It's fine people quit jobs and leave jobs and get new jobs all the time. It's normal You haven't lost anything. They're people a shameful thing Like here's here's the thing as well though. It's perfectly fine To keep making negative videos and make a living making negative videos as long as The negativity is at least somewhat like justified. It's sincere and justified. I mean that's totally Like the idea that he's like what do I do just keep making videos about hating above one It's like well. Do you think that this show is bad american horror story? Do you think it's bad? He says well, yeah, and they go okay. Are your points accurate in these videos? Well, yeah, it's like what is the problem? Don't you think that you are contributing positively uh positively to like film You know films in general in the industry if you make accurate criticisms about things that are bad Yeah, don't you want things to like, you know learn and grow and you want it for the best I mean don't you can't you be negative out of love for something? You know don't want it to do better. I'd want to flip it I'd be like so let's picture a world hypothetically where it was the most monetarily beneficial to just be positive And everyone's being positive about everything everything that comes out everyone's just super positive everyone clicks it Any criticism is shut down ignored or given like the kind of like look at that gross channel ban And it's like would this be a disaster as well? And if so it's like so it's not really about positive or negative is it? What is it really about? Think about it actually That's like my biggest problem with this like entire concept of like film criticism should not be negative because At this point if you are you know, you are making a statement And we can go down this rabbit hole and talk about it for hours and for like ages About this and circle around it, right? But like the point is to you know get to the point right at some point We have to stop this discussion and put a period on it But we you know draw a conclusion And to get to that conclusion we need a solution and there's no solution for this like how can you? Like fix negativity you just can't it just part of this shouldn't be fixed There's no solution. I think this very concept of this entire video and this title is just Pointless it's meaningless because there could there could not be any solution because you are you were basically Telling, you know, you are suggesting a utopia where there's no negativeness What is negativity without positive what is positivity without negativity? Yeah I mean again, why is the negativity necessarily bad? It's like people aren't realizing the the catharsis of the negativity in a large part As well as confirmation bias will also be hearing someone talk passionately about something people like that generally I just it's been a fundamental for me for a while of just I do want to like have a one-to-one with people like this sometimes just to be like so You know give me a bit of praise and then what is the flip reverse of that? And then eventually we get to a point where I'm sure you degree like yeah Negativity is important. It's uh, if that's how we format it or categorize it Maybe like and so what about a video that or what about a film that's almost exclusive to that? And you'd probably like well, that's not possible.  I probably pick Just uh go through until you Basically figure out that it is possible To get to a point where the majority of the things you say are negative about a thing And that you genuinely feel it and that you feel it's important to get out there for overall like discussion or whatever And when he eventually concedes fully that video is fine. It should exist. It's sincere. It's even maybe funny Uh, whatever and it's like, okay So now what if there's like five of those now 10 now 15 now 20 when does it get to the point where you're like? Oh, no culture's been destroyed I just don't see it And uh, it's really hard to buy when we've got so many positive videos out there to the point where you know people Highlighted as a problem as well Right like it feels like we're only looking at one half of the uh the equation And maybe be able to pay my rent or crawl my way out of debt now Um, I'm I don't know man like you're you're your financial decisions are your to weigh up and measure and Try to avoid being in debt. I don't know. Right.  And I go listen. Okay. It's not really like I need to make a living. There are bounties out there There are hitmen opportunities Dark web stuff and I need to put food on the table, man You know like Oh What like I nearly went a month without killed someone and I was I was having ramen noodles.  When do we decide that that's the only option into society? I feel like It's it's this combination of your dream job, but there's only one way you can do your dream job and it's not the dream Way of the dream job, you know what I mean?  I guess just learn how the world works I suppose sorry that the things you want to do the most or not the things that get you the most amount of money Because we're not talking about money versus no money. We're talking about different amounts of money that you get So it's not an element of you know, it's all or nothing I just uh, I've heard this a lot and um I just want them to admit the You I'm willing to be sympathetic to some degree. All right. Like you really want to make this job work That's like the thing you want, but you know You could make one of five videos and all five of them are things you kind of care about But one of them is the most negative and you're like, well, I guess I gotta make that one because if I want to make the most money That's a smart decision to do the next week.  That's negative and again again and Yeah, like I understand it but to some degree I'm just like man, you're making these decisions. Okay I I think that's uh something that's worth emphasizing is like when it comes to because of course to talk about Oh, the algorithm incentivizes this it's like there's a lot of things that you are There are a lot of things that you could do that could get you more views and make you more money But I mean you're not making all of those decisions because ultimately at some point, right? That's what you want to do will be more important than how much money you want to make Like at some point you reach that and this is worth sort of reflecting on right? Like if you if it really upsets you like to do negative criticism like if it actually makes you like deeply like um, unhappy to uh To like do that kind of thing um You can always just you know, you could always what's more positive Like you can skew it towards the things that make you happier even if it means less viewership But I mean that's the trade-off right like you might make less money, but I mean I mean Like what is the proposed solution to this problem because it says film criticism should not be negative But I'm pretty sure he said it a couple of times in this video like oh well. Yeah, but I mean nothing's gonna change So what's the point then you know like what what what is the what's the takeaway then? What is the individualist message that you can pull away from the video? But he still hasn't made a single good argument for why Negativity is itself a bad thing. Yeah in the first place The closest he got was that it's like a self-fulfilling cycle that the more negative We are the more it shows us negativity the more we like Almost convinced that negativity is the only thing that's there and then we more we search it out It's like, okay. We still haven't gotten to the core problem though. Have we Negativity is bad, right? It's like, I mean it depends on what we mean by negativity Right, we're exactly yeah, and it's like, oh, what do you mean? Like why do we need to define those terms? But it means like it might be worthwhile because like bad and negative They're broad and as we've talked about already, right people will seek out Seemingly negative experiences from the art that they consume be it like frustration sadness melancholy like Conflict Maybe like attention because it's not fun to feel but in the context of Storytelling the characters are dealing with something difficult or even as simple as two people who are breaking up as a relationship And you're like, oh, I don't like this, but you do like it Oh, I mean even you know exercise, right? That's strain. That's like putting strain on the body Um, but that's like a that's like a broadly positive thing exercise Um, even though it comes with like effort and challenge and difficulty Um If it was like that we need to be factoring that into the discussion too of like defining clearly what we mean by negative And differentiating between negativity that is valuable and useful and negativity that is just totally and utterly destructive Yeah, it's not even as if negativity is some Faustian bargain with the devil that will guarantee you more engagement No, you're right. It's not there are loads of channels that die when they're trying to be exclusively negative They're like, I don't get it. Why isn't it working? It's What can you say a channel I mentioned effort channel the ultra kill video was nothing but praise He just heaped praise upon the game for like an hour or so And again, uh, the ugeo channel I mentioned earlier Okay You just like He just went off just praising the game because he sincerely loved everything about it And that was that was the video and it was by far the most engaged thing he ever made I was going to say yeah And it's like I feel like people could feel your passion enough to just be interested whether or not your video is negative or not People love it when people talk about things passionately Right, it's exciting interesting Engaging and engaging can can be positive or negative And passion can be negative as well. Yeah, we're really really sensitive huge spectrum here And yeah, so because somebody don't buy right Is the the point could be made eventually the well Whether or not you agree that negativity is is a thing and honestly like categorically It being the only thing available Would that not be considered a bit of a problem? Like that could be something that we may agree with but it's just like but there's no way you can convince me that that's the case Well, you it's it just isn't it's it's not. Yeah, it was also negative. I mean it is someone I was thinking about, right? Check this out. You got H bomber guy his video, which I thought was bloody brilliant on uh, Sherlock Pretty sure that's like hyper engaged with this guy. I'm trying to find it. Where is it?  What else we got in his uh, his listing and it's like, well, he shits all over um uh Well, he's uh Ruby I forget what it is. It's like an anime made by is it rooster tea rooster teeth anime. I think yeah So 5.4 million you're like, okay, you know, it's still really really solid It's just not as engaged as the you should look one It's like maybe he needed to be more negative all out new vegas is genius and here's why 8.5 million.  He probably shouldn't play it He should look at that someone explain it 8 million views So what's happening? How do we explain that and I guarantee you he'd be like, well, you know, there's exceptions like, uh, uh Well, it is interesting to think about right because I it was something that was mentioned before about uh By him about popular subjects But I mean there are some creators who can transcend like the popularity of a given Like it's just people are interested in what they have to say about anything Yeah, it's a good personality that is insightful. You know every time I watch this video And I'll learn something or I'll be entertained by this guy I've never heard of it, but I'll be interested because you're talking about it and and that you know That's uh, that's a place that people can get to as our creators. That's probably the place you want to get to really Yeah, just because Well, yeah, I mean I because I would say that this channel strikes me as very much fitting into the mold of the uh the video essay kind of like um I don't know not maybe stereotype but mold I guess um, yeah It feels familiar and it also feels like you watch too many Marvel reviews in a row that were negative And was like, okay Well, what inspired this was probably there was something that he it's it was enough That it actually it's probably yeah It's probably more likely that actually than what I was thinking of like one too many negative reviews on on things that he enjoyed Well, it could be it could be all of it. It could be that that and the fact that his video is uh His negative video has done well, which spells doom It's like it's like what's what's doom for the entire world, you know, like what happened? How did we get here where people are receptive to negativity? Oh, no, it's uh, we got to stop it. We got to do what we can even though it's unstoppable and part of human nature Yeah, and ultimately okay It sucks and maybe be able to pay my rent or crawl my way out of debt I don't like these appeals either of like appealing to your own personal like, you know I've gotta be negative in order to pay the bill What if everyone felt like this then I guess we'd have to accept the negative culture That's like, uh, that's a thing that we talk about right now debt student loans. Yeah Like that's how it feels to me I mean, yeah, I just not here for the petty party. I have plenty of respect for people who admit like hey Um, couldn't make the youtube thing work couldn't make it work I went I'm doing a different job now. It's like that's all good But people who are like I couldn't make it work. So I had to appeal to the algorithm Make videos but I didn't even really care for the algorithm.  Well, maybe it's like uh, because now I'm just gonna squeeze the simpsons reference in you remember the big giant golden homer Yeah, remember when hunger was like coated in gold and then it's just That's the algorithm each of the jewels of our video my I bring into a reskin of the south park episode the economy ones, you know, oh, yeah Around the economy Yes, it's pretty good like a real entity like the economy isn't just made up of people It's like he's a an actual person you could appeal to Make sacrifices to get its benefit It's just I guess it makes you feel better if you say it's not my fault. It's the algorithm the algorithm Like the economy is our shepherd We shall not once It was Randy Randy is so funny I love Randy It's an interesting evolution where like south park had an initial slate of obviously main characters who've stayed consistent But also secondary characters and longer. It's gone on the secondary characters just got replaced with Like tertiary or like even non-speaking characters who just ended up being more interesting and funny and fit into the dynamic better You remember like how um, it was it was uh stands uncle Uncle Jimbo like yeah used to be like a really prominent character But like you never see him anymore now. It's randy. Do you understand grandpa? He used to pop up He did pop up and of course butters like became essentially almost like a main like one of the main character I mean he basically is a main character at this point Yeah, I don't mean spoke to like the first three seasons, but you had other characters like um other other characters, uh That were just more prominent, but then they weren't as Uh, interesting or funny It's south park is an interesting evolution over the course of like what 25 years at this point If everything is still good, it's gotta be like studied as like a holy fuck What an anomaly to have been that good for that long Yeah, the south park has managed remain consistently entertaining for a very long time. Um, and it looks like yeah, you know what through negativity Oh, yeah through negative through negativity often end with you know what I learned something today and then the piano music I will stand would talk about the lesson that they learned Also, I think I'm I now I'm not going to assign too much Um Motive you know behind anything, but I did go to the go to his channel I took a lit it took a little look here because I was curious and I had a hunch I wonder if this plays into one of the reasons um Behind this or or or maybe this is part of a trend. I don't know. It's now a lot of this is made after this video though, I think that You know, it's maybe before this Yeah, in fact, let me go back before well No, I I guess looking at looking at this rags in terms of the list of videos the fatal floor of glass onion It's like well that sounds negative, but that didn't very well Was uh, HBO is the last of us really necessary. It's like excuse a little bit negative Um, and that's 43, you know a thousand views. So that's a lot less Um, so I guess that's that's interesting dude. He's gonna be called the empire strikes back is not star wars What does that mean? What does that mean? Is it gonna be is it gonna be literal like the first one was called star wars the empire strikes back is called the empire strikes back If you Before this video was done and yeah, he's got a he's got a couple That did well, but it seems like the vast majority of the videos here are just not really getting that many You know getting the most it's real and consistent is what we see here Like some of them are only less than 10k.  Okay, and why does american horror story asylum even exist like those two did well then much much better than the rest and then you got the big hit with a dumber video, but everything else is pretty low to Mis reviews I think it's a hell the the algorithm as kind of has been implied in this video is much more complicated than negative wins Yes, it is The reality is like it's kind of it's kind of hard to wrap our heads around how these things work like They're complicated. I mean, they're exceedingly complicated I You got a you got a gave me no choice.  Uh, no way. No There'd be people who are doing it if they knew how to do it I guess mr. Beast tends to like always the thing with mr. Beast though Is probably an understanding of the algorithm combined with he does things.  So that's true. It's incredibly positive And you gotta remember like how many people can do what he does There's like it's so hard to replace what mr. Beast can do, you know Nobody in the bedroom is gonna copy that like I'm gonna go and kill a thousand people's blindness Yeah, I'm gonna recreate the squid game set and send a hundred people through who else can do that Mom could I use the basement for squid game? So, yeah, no, that's actually really interesting to think about because uh That starts to tap into what is it truly that like when when super positive stories about big events are really popular And it's just like maybe it's just you know, interesting crazy amazing things And you're like, well, maybe it's and then you just label every experience across the board Of what people enjoy You're like, oh, so it's it's not just negativity And then he'd be like, well, no, but it kind of skews that way and it's like, okay So now what? What have we learned I can't I can't wait to get to the conclusion part of this video. I just wanted to know what he says Yeah, we'll get ahead of him for him to answer that get to the title. It should be negative Why we're running out of time. What else do we got to do then? What's the alternative? Able to pay my rent or crawl my way out of debt now I want you to be honest with yourself Wait, is this like a piano rendition of uh, is this a piano rendition? This is pokemon music I saw someone say um The health station thing. I forget what's called. Yeah, I think it sounds like uh, it sounds like the pokemon center Is that that one? Wait, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like it. It's or is it a town. It's one of the towns, isn't it like uh New bog towns almost said which color is it from uh, I this this is which color town I I'm trying to yeah, it sounds like it's uh, it's pokemon, but it's piano, which is uh Yeah, it's off. Piano remember fragile insensitive always little work town. Uh, that was from uh, that was from, uh sapphire and Ruby, right That's what has been mentioned I think yeah, I I just noticed What an interesting selection of music I wonder how he went about curating the music for this video songs.  I was never never into it. I just oh, we never played it.  I just you know, it's just super cool collectors items, right?  I could play all that but no one knew how to play pokemon What is uh, what is what is everybody's favorite starter pokemon? Squirtle Kenny Oh, hey, I'm so glad you said squirtle He's the best lad Oh, that's tough to say He's an adorable little design and among the three he actually counters them both if you give blastoise ice beam Oh Even though objectively Bulbasaur is the best. No, I kind of like them all They all have they're all They're all aesthetically different and they seem to have their own like sort of personalities going uh, but Oh, I don't know. I might go with Bulbasaur just because I think he doesn't get as much attention and he definitely doesn't Everything is the other way Yeah, squirtle and shaman listen. Okay. Venusaur tenses.  Well, the other two look badass I like Venus though, but yeah, I know what you mean Venusaur is not the two list of the three Charizard is like the classic fire dragon Then you have the the turtle massive turtle with literal cannons out of its shell Yep And then Venusaur is you know, he's neat, but he's like a big toad with this big flower on his back And you're like, you know, that's that's neat, you know, there there is a man Remember when pokemon evolutions like made sense No, I see much it's been too long. Well, man, remember the adventure we went on at looking at all of the Watching the deteriorate because I mean, you know, turn it all syndical like they're really cool. I like them I like mudkip I had the arc. I think it was pokemon black and white era That was that's when I dipped my toe back in and I was like, oh god the ice cream the chandelier and the keys That's when I was like, I think I'm done I think that was uh, that was the one that I that was when I stopped playing I like skipped that one. That was one of our lost interest It was first two three generations of pokemon looked really good particularly the first two generations Um, and we're not biased toward it because it's the era that we played. No, sir We're not biased for it because it's the nest or anything Clarity and the designs that they had for the earlier generations the longer it went on the harder It was to sort of because you've used up a lot of our really good base designs Yeah, and it got to the point where the The numbers got really high. I remember seeing this meme It's like gen one pokemon is like collect all the pokemon and then like nearest jan is like And now it's like six hundred and seven hundred and people are asking collect all the pokemon You know, do I have to oh my Jesus? It's a thousand now. Did you guys uh, did you guys see the the one thousandth pokemon? Posted do it on the index. Yeah. Oh, I think we we talked about it.  So this is all beyond me. Oh, no Doing the keychain one That's uh, that's that's the number one That's the thousands pokemon.  It looks like a slut macaroni What's it called uh gold engar. Oh, it's even called gold digger I Like how that belt is just a suggestion. It's not really anything else I don't get it. Why would it be like some epic like crazy?   You kind of want to see him in motion now, don't you? maybe Oh, what were we talking about criticism? um Take it away film christensons. There's nothing negative Self if you were in my position if you were sitting in this seat right now What would you do all of this I make the videos I want to make the videos you want to make Yeah, make the videos you want to make. Yep, son And if someone says like yeah, that's all well and good for you, but I want to make money It's like then make those videos That pays money No, I would go further rags.  What's it like? What what's the problem? It's like, but I don't want to it's like then don't Sorry, welcome to the nature of jobs. I don't know what to say It's so tiring Make the video. I don't want to work in the the you know retail thing. I hate it. It's like, oh shucks Doesn't that suck? Do you think you have more joy and freedom and what you want to do at your retail job or making the youtube videos you want to make?  Maybe youtube isn't your thing and if you hate it so much Maybe that retail job is better. Maybe you'll find another job. The world is full of jobs that you can do I wonder if he did just make a negative review of all tv shows that it would just skyrocket his channel to a billion subscribers He should do it in his experiment. See if it works. I don't think it would It's affecting me mentally much more than it probably should like every time I go to the grocery store right there And I'm standing at the checkout line and I glance over at the tabloids. I see them and I just think These are just youtube thumbnails. Oh my god. No, you've got it backwards No backwards break the conditioning. What is going on in the beginning there was youtube When there was supermarket tabloids Like if he was gonna say like no, I know they came first. I just mean that it's just like youtube. It's like, oh my god. Yes no way Like these look like a lot of my thumbnails. Oh That doesn't look the same as those tabloids.  Okay. That's different. I don't want you to know These these two things are very different I feel like that is very newsworthy.  Yes, they're well, they're more clear America that packaging is very different from Kit Kat's in Australia. He's different. Really? What do they look like in yours? Let me see if I can find just Those are an American thing Reese's looks the same And here she's here and k