Hello. Hello. How are you doing? Good. Good. Hi. Hello. How you did? Hello. Do you know if Lance is going to join us today? I'm gonna ping him. He should. So we didn't response. Yeah. Here he is. Nice. Hi, Lance. Hey, sorry, folks. I have a bunch of workers at the house and well, let's just say nothing's going right with it. And yeah, I knew I had a meeting and then I forgot as they were telling me all my horror stories. All right. It's great to see you. Sorry for the delay. Okay. Let's see. Are we recording? I'll record, I guess. Hey, Judith. It's already recording. Already recording. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So let's see. Two things that I just added to the spreadsheet are just the PRs from the two different projects. So there's the big one for AFJ. Aries did come be to share my screen. Not that not that I'm showing you anything fantastic here, but it's always good to revisit the spreadsheet. Okay. So let's see. I had it there, but really, I'm changing. This interoperability page is going to have to change a bunch eventually, but under projects, I added these related PRs. So in Hakan and Judith, they're doing the Akapai stuff for issue credential and present proof v3. And then there's in the ongoing massive integration one PR for did company two in AFJ. And then they have also a PR related to like the mediator functionality in AFJ. So I added those to the spreadsheet. I guess I'll just post the link to this again, just in case for posterity. Yeah. Can you share this spreadsheet with us as well? I'm not sure if I was in the list. Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, I could put you in the share and then also post the link. Let's see, do I have you? I might not have you or email. Let me post the link. Anyone with the link can can view it. All right. And comment. And if you end up wanting to be an editor, I can, if you just send me your email. Sorry, I just have to figure out how there we go. My chat always disappears as soon as I become the host here or go full screen. Okay. Yep. So there's the there's the sheet. Again, the idea just real quick is that we want to essentially document projects within Aries that have ongoing did come stuff. We want to track the implementations that are out there that could be related or could be used. So like we've even added Varamo, which nobody's using in Aries that I know of, but right, it could be something interesting and useful. And certainly we would want to eventually know kind of interoperability with those so that this page, the interoperability page should hopefully, you know, be refactored and kind of take into account the projects, the implementations. I added did methods just because without the corresponding did methods, we can't do like did peer together and things like that. This is the Aries agent test harness tests that are somewhat related. I'm still going through that stuff, although I've had to pause on it recently. And then obviously protocols that that that could be supported crypto issues references has the JFF stuff in it right now any other links that we want to add that that might give us some good information. And then I've forgotten about this questions one interrupt profiles, do we need lightweight alternative to like you did go that was something that that we had wanted to consider. So anyways, yeah, feel free, we can add more sheets or whatever, and then eventually come up with a nice interoperability tab. Yeah, that sounds very good. So I think during our last call, I also mentioned we would come up with a, yeah, a draft of any kind of an interoperability profile, the things that we will need to either include from the previous areas into our profiles or yeah, upgrade update from them basically. So yeah, yeah, I did that I didn't know that I mean, I knew that there was a spreadsheet, but I didn't know that we want to put the profile here as well. So I put it on a different sheet. If you guys want to review it or like have a conversation about it. Yeah, we can do so. And I'm, I'm 100% open to we could do it as a spreadsheet, we could do it as this document. Doesn't matter. I'm flexible if people have preferences of how best to track this. I think your spreadsheet is pretty good so far. So I guess we can put them in the spreadsheet. Okay. And then, yeah, let's go through this together. You can kind of guide us through it. So if you can go to the very bottom of the, yeah, so this is where it starts, basically, can you scroll up a bit further? A bit more, a little bit more. And that's a bit more. Yeah, perfect. So this is where it starts. So basically, I'm pretty sure you also came up with the areas into our profile page on, I think it's one of the features. I left a link there. Yeah, it's a concept 302 areas into our profile. So, well, I didn't put a lot of new things. I just put took the one that we had from the areas in top of the profile 2.0 and started commenting on them and like saying, like, are there going to be any necessities to change anything that are existing or are we going to need new protocols? Because this is exactly what happened with the upgrade from areas into our profile 1.0 to 2.0. So they basically took the list from 1.0, extended with the 2.0 stuff and took a look if they needed to change something, if they wanted to drop it, if they wanted to, yeah, update it basically. And yeah, so if you go down a bit lower, you will see the same structure, basically, so tutorials, sub-targets, no, no, no. Yeah, so this is where it starts. So basically, we have the AIPV1 and those were the sets of RFCs that were meant to be a part of it. So this made the Intel profile 1.0. And then what happened is basically they made an upgrade to it. So they said, okay, these were the ones coming from AIPV1.0 and basically the same features have been taken and taken into consideration how to, what are they going to be discontinued, upgraded or used as it were before, basically. And that comes a bit lower, that list. Yeah, so this is exactly it. So yeah, there are some notes that basically reformatted, minimally updated, updated, etc. So taking basically things that were a part of AIP1.0 came with a couple of upgrades, basically, and then added new stuff, like see, for example, GoalCode is new, DidExchange is new, DidConfile and MIME types are new, etc., etc. So I think it's more or less a visible step from what was AIP1.0, what is AIP2.0, then there are some other things like the mediators and encryption envelopes that have been added as well. So I just took basically this list and started to go through it one by one to see whether we're going to use them, update them or just drop them for AIP3.0. And that is the one that is visible in that Word document, Google Sheets basically. Yeah, so the question is whether it's going to call it AIP3.0 or not, but this is I think something that is going to, yeah, we can think about it. It seems to have strong support from Steven and Sam, so the currents that are unrelated, but yeah, I mean, you know, this is one of those things like, at what point do we just say, yes, we're doing AIP3.0. I would vote that we just go ahead at this point and say AIP3.0 is happening. I mean, this is fantastic, what you're doing. And then they seem to support that idea. It seems to be kind of like, well, what do you want to do? But I think at this point that would be because of the legacy and how much people know about it. And we've kind of floated the idea past our customers. And I just think that the community can really rally around the concept of a new AIP that's DidCom V2 related because anyone who's kind of thought like, oh, AIP2.0, does that include DidCom and they start digging or DidCom V2 and they start digging into it and then they're like, it's not really. And yeah, so I feel like this would be like some solid ground for the community to just say, yes, that's the point. AIP3.0, DidCom V2. Yeah. My question is if we support, for example, if we support AIP3.0, should we support the 2.0? So if we are in 3.0, do we need to support DidCom V1? That wasn't the case with AIP2.0 to 1.0, right? Because of the interdependency frameworks, such as Go, for example, before the Indie SDK binding of Go, they did not support anything related to Indie. That's why I don't think it's a necessity to support 1.0. But if there is a need of backwards compatibility, or if you're just moving on with, for example, Acapai or framework JavaScript, then in that case, it's just going to be an addition. And yeah, not necessarily. Yeah. So in that list, DidCom version 1 is not there, right? Or it is? Not in this one. That's why, for example, if you look at the feature, 0019 encryption envelope, I just noted that it is not required for AIP3.0, because that is the old encryption envelope used for DidCom V1. Okay, got it. And I really like that concept. I'm so glad you brought that up, Roto, because that is the problem with legacy, right? If you always have to carry all of the legacy into the new AIP, then I don't think it'll ever get done, right? Because it just becomes such a burden. And people are already complaining that DidCom V2 has quite a wide scope, and it takes a lot in order to implement it. So yeah, my preference is, honestly, I was not familiar with this process. How can I'm so glad that you kind of listed this out the way that you have? It's excellent. But yeah, my inclination is that if we can make AIP3 as light as possible, and then with people having the option to go support AIP2.0 if they want, that would be a major advantage for us. Yeah, because you can't support any. Because I think they accept message, you put AIP1, AIP2, AIP3, etc, right? Yeah, good, good. Got it. I have a quick question, guys. So I'm looking at the different proposals and the different RFCs in there. And I'm seeing that there are technical RFCs, as well as application-related RFCs, as well as sub-protocol RFCs. So I'm trying to figure out what's the purpose of a profile in this case? Because there's JSON-LD support, static peer-dids, presentation exchange, or if you support a specific context, the attachment. So I'm trying to figure out how can we scope this. So yeah, because I'm trying to figure out exactly what are we trying to put in a profile. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, go ahead. It makes sense. No, no, it's so I think you ask a legitimate question, because the thing is, we have Discom V2, and Discom V2 is basically for agents to communicate with each other. There is an encryption envelope. So in the most basic, we need to be able to do a did exchange. We need to be able to use the same encryption envelope, or key exchange with Diffie Herrmann, use the same message structure. But for example, things like, for example, the JSON-LD attachments, or BBS Plus, or NONCRES, or whatever. So this is something that we will have to talk about as well, because those are actually payloads in the did.com V2 message, and not necessarily related to did.com V2 as a protocol. Right, and you get to exchange that information and the presentation exchange. You can see what credentials you support, and all of that gets done at a different level than an interrupt profile. Yeah, but this is exactly what we will have to think about, because this has actually been solved with Vaki, right? They extended it more than to did.com V2. They said, okay, we're going to use it as the basic, but then on top of it, we're going to use BBS Plus as credentials, or instead of using the Diff Presentation Exchange protocol attachment type for present proof V3 that they also specified. So maybe the way forward is to call this Vaki profile. It's also possible, because just having the bare minimum is not going to cover, because we will need to find out whether we support the JSON-LD, whether we support NONCRES in these. Probably not. It's really on the air, basically. So this is the part that we will also come up with as well, I think. Got it, got it. Yeah, I guess something I was curious about. Right now, I see that we're using agents only for issue credential and presenting credential. So I was hoping that maybe with Diff.com V2 protocols, we can have more application-related protocols at the same issue present proof credential. And we can have group chat or chat messages and stuff like that. I'm interested in how we can communicate about exchanging those protocols as well. I think it would be something useful to do in the IP3. That's also a legit part. We do have the basic messaging, I think, if you scroll down a bit further. But I mean, you probably saw it anyway. So we will need to probably update it according to the... Yeah, and then I think routing is also almost big thing in Diff.com V2 as well. So maybe we can get rid of those. Yeah, thank you so much for all the work. I still need to look. Yeah, of course. I mean, it also needs a lot of discussions like what we want to include and what we don't want to include. For example, I did realize that I made a mistake with including indie attachments because do we really want the indie dependency coming into AIP 3.0 or not? I don't know. We need to be careful maybe about making that statement. If we can avoid it, I would love to. Yeah, because the way that you can... I think that we used to use the profile as incremental like IP1, IP2, and the latest is the best. But I think we can compose, like having a minimum or Diff.com V2 like this one, basic stuff. And then if you want to support indie or other, it can be another profile, right? And you can compose with several profiles. That's just... That could be a possibility to extend it. This is such an interesting moment because these AIPs have been the goal that these agents can just interop. But the variety of ways to interop is becoming so great that it's hard to imagine AIP 3 being all-encompassing, especially now that the ARIs world is untying itself from indie. Yeah. And yeah, so exactly what Hakan's saying, Roto's saying, Alex is saying, like, what is it that composes this thing? Because that's such a hard question to answer. I like what Hakan's saying about maybe calling it AIP wacky. But then I would just love to talk a little bit about that in terms of thoughts of then what is the AIP providing that the kind of wacky specification isn't providing? And does that kind of give us a hint at our scope thoughts? So my thought is wacky is a work that has been done in a collaboration between Diff and Hyperlegia, and the result was basically wacky as a specification. However, we need clear concepts and features that needs to be implemented by the ARIs frameworks to be compatible with wacky as a profile. And I think our goal in here is if we choose to go wacky. I mean, this is also still like on the air. But if we do so, and I think it looks very similar, but then we have to align with the credential type, which is BBS Plus, because it's a part of wacky. But if you say, yes, okay, this is the way forward. In that case, I think this working group can be a part of defining the features and concepts RFCs that are required to fulfill wacky as a spec. So how is wacky only tied to BBS Plus? I think it's support. Yeah, only tied. It is a part. Like in wacky, I'm going to check this again, but I remember in the in the attachment, you have three versions like Indy. Well, you can do Indy as well. Okay. I thought it was bound to the BBS Plus. I thought this is what they aligned on when choosing. I think you can use different like credential types. Yeah, I think Indy, yeah, Shazen LD and the other one was JWT. JWT. Okay. In that case, the LD, BP is LD, JWT is. Yeah. But then again, it's very important distinction because like Indy has one implementation. If you take Indy, you have to take the libraries that come with it. Yeah. I was going to say that in my opinion, like the wacky profile, like it's an extremely like complex like AIP, like, and there's a lot of things to implement at that level, like, like having tried to do that and having to support like all the different like message types, all the different like contacts of different credentials. It's like a piece of work in and of itself. And like they define like a lot of things on how to exchange credentials like in that specification. So I guess what I'm trying to figure out like with an AIP, like do we want to have similar protocols like that that you can exchange like other type of information like messages, group messages, or do we just want it to be focused on like credential exchange and like everything that's related with all of that? Or do we leave that at the wacky level? Because like, yeah, like, I think like even like the outcome interoperability with Brian and Diwala and Snor, like we try to like even do like a subset of all the features that were in there just because like there are so many. And we weren't like really using wacky, like we're using like a minimal viable like wacky, just because like everything was so cumbersome to implement from scratch. Okay. And I tried to bring that point up with Sam. And I don't think I did a good job with it. That is there some kind of simpler form?  Is there some simpler form of wacky? Like, I don't, I wasn't there when they were defining wacky, right? So I don't know the discussions that they had in terms of, okay, we're going to define this back. And yes, it's going to have lots of steps to it and be complicated. But this is kind of this full implementation that covers as much as we can imagine that is needed. But yeah, is there this shortcut that can be developed that's more like, hey, you know, you want to get started in this, this did come world and you want to, you want to pass credentials, you don't need all of wacky. And yeah, I can't even say what his answer was. You know, I mean, it sounds like, yeah, like I said, I don't think I asked the question well enough to get a straight answer for that. I don't know, any thoughts on what Alex is saying in terms of the complexity of wacky? Okay, please go ahead. No, when someone say I'm supporting wacky, do you need to support all the spec or just because if you're supporting maybe Indy, why do you should care about the, the JSON and the VBS plus is how you define that in when you say I'm supporting wacky, I don't know that how it works or should work. Yeah, I think wacky just like specify the messages like within the wacky messages, like you define the credential types and everything like within the messages. So as long as like you support like exchanging those messages, right, you support the wacky spec like in my mind, but then like, do you implement like, do you have like an LD processor like for processing LD credentials, like do you have that's like the backend question though? Yeah. Okay, but if you support these proposals of request issue flow, are you okay? Because that's maybe simpler, right? I think that the complex part is when you read the credential, the presentation, all the stuff. Yeah, the thing is like, if you like, do you have like, do you have to support like the requesting of credential like in the like in the issuing of credential, all of that kind of stuff. So yeah. And then in some ways, does this dovetail with the discovery protocol? Because I mean, at least that's the way that at a high level, they talk about did come v2 is like, Oh, you know, well, at the very least, you know, you have this messaging layer that you can at least approach another agent and say, you know, hi, right, like you try to get started with each other and then you can discover what that that agent or mediator supports in order to figure out, you know, at what level you can do business, right? So but like, do you is is is the features of wacky would that fit within that discovery protocol? Or is that a different level or layer because, you know, a lot of times we've talked about the discovery protocol just in terms of like what application protocols do you support? But like, can you dive deep enough to say, I do wacky, but I don't do bbs plus? Yeah, it's not a testifier. So you can do whatever you want, but most parties should know what you're telling. Yeah, it's not that the protocol is flexible enough to do whatever you want to also extend that to other things. But I think we need this, this RFC to be included and really tell what what means for that. Anyway, because I guess my sense is, you know, I think we're saying like really important things here. My sense is that this scope is is widening or is wide enough. And even at the just the wacky level that yeah, there needs to be this negotiation that basically says like, there's a lot that we could all be supporting. This is what I support and and at least being able to transfer that amount of information so that two agents could know what they can do. Yeah, but I think that's the part of the profiles that are defined also in the DITCOM spec, right? We do have these three profiles right now, the DITCOM v1 or four in total. AIP1, AIP2 with encryption envelope old, AIP2 with encryption envelope new and DITCOM v2 basically. So I guess there would be a chance to actually increase the amount of profiles that that I've supported. Like I don't see why that would be a problem. Like I guess, for example, yeah, yes, sorry. I guess I'm worried that we are discovering that having a profile that's like, okay, this is the set of things that I support and I'm going to give it a label, right? It's sounding to me like that may not scale like that's not possible anymore that there's so many different elements that it's more like, how do I present to you everything that I can do and you can present to me everything you can do and then we can decide how we are going to interrupt, right? Like, you know, if you only speak indie and indie credentials, let's say, and I don't do that, then we know we can't get started. But maybe we find out, you know, I support indie and bbs plus and you support jsonld and bbs plus and now we can we can we can go ahead and negotiate to use bbs plus or something like that. Like if I'm talking crazy, you know, but I'm starting to get this sense that it's yeah, just this labeling of an AIP might be difficult. So then that the new AIP should be something more of like how do we discover how to interrupt with each other? But yeah, I might be getting too meta just just thoughts. Yeah, I think it's it's very, very like quite quite meta. Yeah. And which which I kind of hate by the way, but you know, the bottom line is I don't see a clear path yet, because you guys are bringing up such good nuanced questions. I mean, I think that JFF activity was so important to kind of expose the variety that that can occur. And so they chose this shortest path, right? And I guess, in my opinion, I see kind of like what you were saying is like you're trying to figure like what signatures you support, right? Like, hey, do we support the signature types? The same like low level cryptography. But in my experience, the low level cryptography like depends on a like use case basis like at the application level. And I don't think like you can exchange cryptography at maybe like an agent basis. Maybe you can because the agent but the question is like, now does the agent have to support like all the lower level cryptography? Like, can that be delegated to other parties? Right? Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that some some issuer like in the issue credential flow, they might support JWT, but they might not. So like walkie defined that's defined that format exchange, like whatever like signatures you support, like within the messages within walkie. So I think it's I'm not sure that we can exchange keys at the at the agent level, like key format, because you would exchange it at like a application, like use case level. Like another agent doesn't care what your agent does with key management. That's the way I think about it. Like whatever like your agent does with key management, what keys it supports, like an internal thing. And then you want to expose that at the application level. Hey, for this use case, this credential was signed with this key. Does that make sense? I'm not sure I can I'm wording it properly. To some degree, it makes sense to me having not implemented at the level that you have. I just basically take your word for it. But so so well, I guess what? Yeah, I'm still going back to based on what you're saying, I'm still going back to this concept of a discovery protocol. And if that's discovering application level protocols that you support, are you saying that there could be richer information, more detail about that application protocol, and some of the nuance of things that you would have to support within it? Right, exactly.  Like I don't I don't request for credential to issue a credential or like something like that for some whatever reason, right? Or hey, in this group chat, like I don't support having like an admin in my group chat protocol. But yeah, then like it becomes like, how do you define protocols? So yeah, it's so maybe one way to define this, how to work with this to cover discover features protocol, because I think it's generic and body form for this AIP three, we can define, okay, in discovery, you need to support at least this support with roles you you you can handle with protocols or some specific protocols on the way you should specify if there are nuances within each protocol, like the walkie SK, I support walkie or issue credential three in this format, something like that. And we specify how should be state on the on the discovery protocol. That can be one way. Yeah. I guess something that I saw like in the ACAPI meeting, they had like handshake protocols in the message for like showing, what's it called, working with the opener, the opener, not open API. Open Connect, which one? Yeah, open AD Connect. Yeah, like I saw that they had some like handshake protocols like in there. I wasn't sure like, what was their thought behind that. But yeah, something similar. Okay. But now you don't want to have like a new field. Okay. So on the on the table, how can you add them? Okay, this is the V2 protocol. I see that this is exchanged. Do we need that in this one? Did exchange? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think so because I think it came from AIP 2.0 for did conv2 conformity. So we're exchanging, we're moving from connections protocol to did exchange protocol. And if it's a public did, it can be resolved via the did exchange. And if we are going for a, going for a period, for example, in that case, it can be done with using an out of band protocol, which which also is a part of, well, it's seen as a part of did exchange. But yeah, for my understanding, did exchange is how Aries deals with, I think threats from, from did conv2 specification. Okay, I need to check that. Yeah, that's part of Aries, the exchange. Yeah. So those are a bit old comments. I will need to go through this document again too. Yeah, I'm going to recheck what is in there in the did exchange because I normally use it, did it exchange with did it key? Sorry. So base to solve the did it key URL. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're going to use did it key, you need did it exchange. But if you use did it peer, you basically don't need it. It's just that we play back to the URL that is in the service endpoint. I'm not sure if I understood you. Sorry. Because I think if you are using did it peer, you can create an out of band. Yes. And just the other party can resolve the did it peer that's inside the out of band and we play back to you because in the did it peer, you're going to have the service endpoint and you're going to have the URL, how to communicate back. So you don't need the protocol to understand the did it, the DIDs from the two parties, right? The one who receives the out of band know the, which is the did it peer from the creator of the out of band.  So yes, so it can create a connection. Exactly. But you still need the exchange because all of this stuff is based on protocols like basically defining how an agent should behave when something comes to them. And I think that's why whether it is like a peer did or a key did key or a public did, you still need the did exchange protocol to go through. First of all, what's it again? The first one is exchange requests that can be with the out of band. If it's, for example, should be broadcasted. The second thing is exchange response, how the counterparty is responding to it.  And all agents needs to go through this to get, create like internally in areas, clients a connection ID and the connection situation that are also established or completed. Okay, okay, well, yeah, that's, that's because, yeah, in the areas are probably on the frameworks to implement that way. So it's fine. But maybe we need to, to refine a little bit based on what did it come be to can provide if you are using like did the peer. Yeah, and you are not using areas, are you? Or I know we, we build like framework without, without Akapai, without, and we test it against Akapai. So we are playing with both, right? So, and that the way is when we, because we started, we did it come between playing the computer. So in that case, we didn't need the, the exchange protocol, because it's just one message. So it's easy in a way doing it, did it, did it exchange, but it's just so plain, we didn't come between that we, we don't need a protocol, right? But if you, but we are right, because if you are using Akapai, you need this concept of connection and somehow to write it and establish that connection when you receive the message. So yeah, it's fine. So I guess how do we want to end all the concept of connections in did come be to write, because then I feel like this is like one of the biggest, biggest like breaking changes between V1 and V2 is this concept of like, there's no connection concept. And like this is like whole key agreement, Akapai is happening like on each message right now. And in my opinion, I think in the company three is going to change again, because you can scale encryption on each message if you want to do like group things with lots of people. So yeah, like we want to tackle it, or maybe just keep having this concept of connections and try to have the company to use the connection concept somehow, like using their like your rotation processes and maybe we can make a protocol that way. So from what I understood at least the time that I was Sam Sankern and Stephen Coran was in the call is that we want to keep connection ID as a as an abstract construct as a construct to keep these informations related to a connection. Yeah, I don't think so far the plan wasn't to make it disappear basically, but to work with it. Yeah, like I think like a person like makes sense like it makes like development a lot easier to have this like obstruction layers of like a connection concept to like keep track of like messages and like, like having like a thread and whatnot. So yeah, like I'm all for it. Like, like I myself haven't like figured out a way to resolve messages like if it changes and like the rotation like I haven't had to deal with all that. So yeah. Yeah. But speaking of this multi messaging, I think this is one of the parts that you are interested in if I understood you correctly because you mentioned a couple of times. We might need to extend the basic message protocol and like or create something like a multi messaging concept or as a feature as an RFC if you want to have it in the dit.com v2 profile basically. Yeah, I mean like I'm not yeah like I'm personally interested in like having like creating like a group chat app out of dit.com v2 like I think that's just like the like the like the like an easy thing like a low level lift in terms of like application that can be developed because right now I feel like a lot of interactions are one-to-ones like I'm interested into like one-to-many interaction just to see like what complexity it brings mainly in group like a group chat is the easiest implementation of that. Yeah. But I see dit.com as just being like a peer-to-peer protocol like in of its nature which is yeah like it's not one-to-many right. Yeah. But it can be extended as you said so. Yeah yeah yeah definitely definitely like I'm interested in like trying to do that work as well yeah. I'm just trying to fill in our meeting page real quick. I created it and posted a link for anybody who wants to put themselves on although I think we already have Pacen, Rodolfo, Alex. So I think we have everybody who's on Confluence on there and I'm just adding some of our notes. You don't have Hyperledger access right? So the Hyperledger foundation? Okay. Okay. So do we just want to maybe let's do a quick update on just people's dit.com v2 activities as well. It's always nice to keep up with each other and we haven't heard yeah from each person just what they're up to. So yeah for me what am I up to other than yeah this stuff specifically. Yeah I don't have any active dit.com v2 activities going. How about you? Anybody? I think this one is the main one. Yeah fair enough. Interrupt yeah. So for ACAPA there's an open pool request for issue credential and present proof protocols for dit.com version two and now there's like the question how to handle connections and then you get to get the information from connections and which message format is used and then to adapt the encryption but also then maybe to when you have the information about which dit.com version is used you can actually reuse some of dit.com of the like AIP one and two also but yeah the connection is the big issue also to continue. How's the level of support for that activity for you Judith is it basically that Hakan and then whatever meetings you guys attend in terms of like ACAPA or whatever is that is that where you're getting the most support or is there or like the currents supporting you or anybody else Daniel Hardman or I guess the the diff user group I'm just interested in terms of you know like are we it or is there more? I mean I got a feedback today for the pool request but also like yeah then there's this meeting and this is the V2 meeting and yeah like there's the other meeting for ACAPA which I cannot attend on Tuesdays because I'm not free on those days but yeah so Hakan attends that and then yeah and they have meetings with Hakan. So in terms of support I think we have a lot of I mean ideas and like for example there was some T-Board Glaster I made also a couple of comments on Judith's pool request. Oh good. So we are getting feedback but like in terms of muscle it's very limited and it's basically Judith so far for the Dipton V2 in ACAPA implementation. Yeah fair yeah yeah okay so so in terms of like talking about connections what is what are some ideas for how we can accelerate that conversation well in my opinion like one important step would be maybe to make out of band working for the message structure of Dipton V2 as well and then there would be a way to establish like Hakan already said like there would be a way to establish a Dipton V2 connection by having an out of band protocol working for Dipton V2 message structure and then yeah from there you would have the information okay we are using Dipton V2 and then you can basically use the protocols from Dipton V2 as well that would be one approach for example. Yeah and due to the limited site that we have because it's like a master's thesis as well like we will need to come up with some results like by end of February middle of March or something like that so that's why I personally would like to go for a more pragmatic approach of defining a profile saying that this is what it's supported and yeah tackle how we can just make it happen basically with Dipton V2 encryption envelope plus message structure for basic messaging, issuing credentials and presenting proofs and of course establishment of Aries connections. Okay yeah it's I guess well one thing that well whenever we get to kind of this place where you know we have some meta discussions and then you know we also have these actual implementations going on I think that's really good and it helps to constrain us we do have a customer you know not only RootsID itself doing Dipton V2 but we have customers who are interested in customers who are actually implementing Dipton V2 as well so hopefully we can use the intersection of these implementations to define to you know come to terms with you know being grounded not being so meta you know that's partly why I kind of started building the spreadsheet I wish that I was more you know a lot of times when I do these kinds of things like I have a very clear vision that I really want to drive on and in this case there's just more information to together so what am I trying to say I'm trying to say that I want to capture the actual details of these implementations in the spreadsheet so that we can properly discuss individual pieces and so I'm open to ideas and energy and thoughts you know I want to to help capture these things but it's hard right because I'm not doing the implementation other people are doing the implementation and there's multiple of them ongoing so I just want everyone to know that I'm trying to grapple with like how do we use this so valuable information of these implementations going on and I think it's honestly the Acapai work is unique at least from my point of view because like like Roto said you know we just started with Dipton V2 so we we kind of don't have that Dipton V1 constraint yeah the the back issue or the legacy of it as much weighing on us and our customer doesn't either and but that's why the Acapai stuff so valuable because there are going there you know these important implementations are do do have this legacy so yeah I said a lot of words yeah I think like even like bringing the Veramo guys that are like outside the hyperledger ecosystem they might have like a different total views on how to handle this and like how we can like interrupt with them as well and like they might have like an interesting thoughts to to say like how we can leverage different like profiles and from that perspective so yeah so maybe I I will take that as a a task or if if Alex you feel like you want to reach out to them and try to figure out how we can get them either in this meeting or at least capture their work yeah yeah go ahead I think like yeah maybe Nick can get here because like he's like on the east coast is like he's in New York so yeah I'll let him know about this although he has been attending the diff ones yeah he comes lately and and and by the way this meeting having this before the diff meeting I think is helping in terms of right capturing that audience as well so yeah maybe you can bring it up that all right okay yeah okay we have two minutes left so so a little update from my side um I will or we will talk of in the next akapai implementation group akapag about which encryption envelope to go for or like see whether yeah because there are so many different ones including like a native implementation of it on akapai the question comes to which one do we want to use and I think that would be also play a role in yeah what Alex was mentioning about like how to deal with key exchange and all those things around that encryption envelope level basically of this common implementation so yeah I will update you next time but I think we'll see each other next Monday anyway before that call that call happens on Tuesdays yeah fair any other thoughts I think I do I this is the first time that I'm thinking towards like a more detailed form of discovery it just seems to me to be so valuable if there really is a way to for agents to tell each other these are all the things that I support you know with much more detail than maybe what we've kind of thought of in the discovery protocol in the past I mean that's for me a big takeaway from this like is there a more detailed way for agents to you know talk about their encryption envelope and things like that so yeah any other thoughts I think it's really good okay all right we did it sorry that I was late I'll do better next time these contractor cabinet folks are killing me that's my that's my personal problem thank you all it's always great to see you I really appreciate this meeting yeah see you all my oh bye bye thank you thank you


So then I had a verified Tesla Twitter account that literally looked exactly like Tesla. It had the blue check, everything. Got all over the news, international. I mean, like it was crazy.  Then it was like, all right, what's this guy doing? What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brand Man Sean. And I'm Kory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Thursday on Spotify, Apple Music. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, here at the intersection of creativity and currency, the No Labels way, man. Look at the people who are doing stuff different. And today we got a special guest for sure. A guy, we actually had the combo. So we're put, and we got to edit them together because we had a great combo. And we were like, no, but this needs to be a whole podcast. So today you are going to learn and get the inside scoop on a professional troll, how to get attention on the internet. If you want to figure out how to hack this attention troll and end up on the news within seven hours, this is the guy, because that's what he did. Check out this talk we had with Connor Masura. All right, guys. We actually got to have a quick segment for you guys introducing one of the most interesting guys that I've seen on the internet recently. He's making waves with some great marketing tactics, some interesting troll tactics, and knowing how to get attention, period. Y'all want to take some game. I'm sure he's going to tell y'all something that that's going to stick with you because I'm here like looking to learn, man. This is Connor Masura. He's an artist. Do you consider yourself anything beyond like just a musical artist?  I don't know. Well, y'all have seen some of these people do these AI covers and things like that, right? But he's had one of those covers that's popped in. We actually talked about it on the podcast where he did a drape cover of his own song, which is an interesting marketing tactic, right? The AI we know is trending. Go back to just your videos in general, how they're positioned. Like we're looking at the one this morning where you, I'll go to this one actually. I'm going to say the other one, the Tesla situation. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's a whole other thing. Yeah. Oh, my God, explain the viral Tesla account that got banned, right? Yeah. Well, well, I guess or before I get into the Tesla thing, I'll just say in a more like general terms, like my mindset when it comes to a marketing is just accepting and understanding that most people don't care. They're not going to care who you are. They don't know. They don't know who I am already. It doesn't. It's just understanding that you have to win them over with something that's at least interesting enough to keep them from scrolling away. So I'm going in there knowing that I'm on enemy turf. I'm on like I'm playing in a way game like every single time I post, I know that people are just betting against against me because they probably don't know who I am. So they're like, who's this guy? Why should I care? So I think it's just that that mindset of like instead of I think for a long time, I had the mindset of, I mean, like like many people, you're kind of posting for the people, you know, you're in your circle and it's almost like it's like if you had an inside joke with your friends, like if you post the inside joke, only your friends are going to get that. You have to be able to be interesting to other people. Anyway, that's just my my general mindset is I just do stuff. I try things and I don't know. It's it's all kind of like I'm just trying to have fun. So that leads me down to doing crazy stuff like the Tesla thing, which was from when Elon made the like you could pay eight dollars for a blue check. I went and I paid eight dollars on one of my burner accounts and changed it to look exactly like the Tesla Twitter account. So then I had a verified Tesla Twitter account that literally looked exactly like Tesla had the blue check everything. And then I just started posting insanity for like seven hours. And it was like the craziest day of my life. It was like got all over the news, international.  Like John Oliver read one of the tweets on air. Like I got interviewed by Newsweek. Like it was insane. Well, all of those posts was only a seven hour span. Yes. That's crazy. I thought it was a couple of days. Yo, I was literally seven hours. Did you write these posts out before you created the car? Was this just you like in your bag, just sitting there tweeting in real time? So this is how it went out. So the so the night before it happened, I was DJing and I remember I was I was telling my girlfriend like, yo, like Elon made the eight dollar blue checks thing like I've been seeing a couple of people like before that somebody did the Nintendo one where they had Mario given everybody the finger, which was really funny. And I think there was like one other one. And then most people were like they were doing fake Elon accounts, which was funny. But I was trying to think of one that nobody had done yet. And I just yeah, I was like I was with my girlfriend. I was like, I got it. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I think I'm going to do a fake account tomorrow. And then the next morning I was like, oh, no one's done a Tesla account. And then I was like, all right, let me just set it up. I did it. I I I got like probably 30 like draft tweets ready to go. Just like because I knew my time was going to be limited. I knew they were going to ban me for sure. So so I had like 30 of them in the chamber and then. And then I also texted a couple of my friends that are comedians that I do like I did a comedy podcast a couple of years ago with them. I work closely with them. My my boys Victor Trevino and Demetri Blarnelli. And then Demetri was actually so the most viral tweet of all of them was the one about the World Trade Center, which was kind of crazy. But that was actually Demetri, my friend Demetri's idea. So he like ghost wrote that tweet for me, actually. But that was the biggest one. But there was like it was it was probably. So I had like 30 of them. Uh, Demetri gave me the World Trade Center joke one. And then I just went for it. And at first I was like. I really didn't know. I mean, I thought maybe like my friends would see it and maybe think it's funny. Like I didn't know what it was going to become. And then, uh, and then like 20 minutes later, I. So I had the idea to go and and start liking tweets from that account. So I would go to people that that follow Elon or are talking about Tesla or Elon. And I would start liking their tweets from that account so people would start seeing the account. And it wasn't really getting any traction. But then there's this journalist named named Ken Clippenstein, Ken Clippenstein. Uh, who he makes fun of Elon a lot.  And then next thing I knew, he retweeted it. He has like half a million followers. And then it was just bananas for the rest of the day. It was just insane. It was on the front page of Reddit. Like it was it was the craziest thing. Yeah, that's crazy. So even if I hear some of the strategy, obviously you get an account.  A lot of tweets in the chamber ahead of time, right? We start going empty in the clip. Yeah, this liking strategy seemed like it worked. You just you got to figure out who's the right person to like it. So eventually they see the profile and they can blow it up. Yeah, I mean, but honestly, like I was just doing this because I thought it would be funny. I didn't think it was like a marketing strategy for me, per se, because I also wasn't sure. Like if I would, I thought like I'm like, it's dude. I don't know what's going on. Like, I don't know, but I just thought it was funny. So, uh, so I just did it. I didn't think it would like help my music career or anything. But it once it started going viral and and so I guess fast forward, like Elon was tweeting, like at the same time that I was tweeting, like and he changed the parody rules, basically. So that was when he changed it. So you had to have parody, like in the display name. So it would have to say Tesla parody or else it's banned. But the only thing is he also banned people from changing their display name in the first place. So I was just I was just stuck. I was like, all right, we're just going to rise till the brakes fall off. And I just kept on going. It was crazy. Anyway, I got banned and then I was like, all right, like, what do I what do I do now? Should I tell people it's me?  And I did I did a couple of videos in a row that night explaining it. And to both of those of those videos did insane numbers immediately, like two million to like back to back to three billion. It was crazy in in a day. It was insane. Um, and then, yeah, I just kept on going all the like then I started getting the the news outlets reaching out. It was it was crazy. But, uh, so that's that's kind of like that's the story of it.  I don't know. It's I just thought it was funny, but, uh, that was really when what was funny is like pretty much everybody was mostly on my side when I was doing the Tesla thing, like they're like, all right, that's fine.  Then it was like, all right, what's this guy doing? But let me take a quick second to tell you about forever fan, because many of you know that my agency is responsible for helping multiple artists blow up tens of billions of views and billions of streams. But I want to specifically talk about a strategy that we've used to help artists get millions of streams on their very first song. And as a matter of fact, in the last 12 months, an artist got signed to a major label using this specific strategy, and you'll never guess what it is. Pre-saves, yeah, that's right. Pre-saves, they're extremely powerful when you do them correctly, but most people don't understand how to do it. See, the problem becomes we've been all this effort for this pre-save campaign, and then the song finally comes out. And then what happens after that? Nothing, you're starting from ground zero again, because you're not about to ask people to pre-save every single time you drop a song. So I'm here to put you on to our solution for that, which is forever fan, a platform that removes this massive pain for artists by making it so when a fan pre-saves one of your songs, they automatically pre-save every single song that you drop after that. So your work doesn't just create a one time fan of a single song. It creates a forever fan and you can take advantage of this same solution.  For everfanmusic.com, check it out now. One question I wasn't actually just like, well, why would you do something like this in general? And you kind of just say, hey, I just thought it was funny, which is, which is great. It was like a passion project. I guess you can call it in its own way. But then when you relate it to what actually did happen, the video was going up on TikTok. Yeah, yeah. Before you even get to the song, what impact did that have on your profile in terms of the type of people that it drew? Did it have any relation to your music in terms of conversion? Or at least maybe you seem like a guy who has a, you know, a pretty like just fun, loving affect, right? You just like, you like to laugh.  Do you see anybody that you feel like it's going to stick around for the long run potentially? Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, of course, there were people who were turned on to my music because of it. I think it's a weird, we're in a weird space with TikTok that I'm still trying to understand, too, is when I go viral for things that aren't directly related to my music, it is a little bit weird. Because you'll get followers like I had. I had another video a few months, like a month or so before the Tesla thing where it was just me reviewing like some really expensive cookies. I just randomly did that. I didn't think that was going to do numbers. I just like cookies. I've got a sweet tooth and and that did that still does number. That's just like over six million right now. But that no one that none of the followers. I got or an engagement off of that are going to care about my music. They just don't care about my music. So that's also like it's great on one hand. Of course, it's great that it went viral. But also those people aren't there for my music. They've then all those people were like, oh, we need another cookie review. And I'm like, I'm not going to be the cookie guy. Like that's not me. So I don't know. But but back to the Tesla thing, like. I think it did. I think it's still tied in a little bit for sure, because it's still like it's still enough of my personality attached to it. It definitely drove some people to my music, at least. And also the fact that like a lot of the the articles of like Newsweek interviewing me or whatever, like they were talking about me, the fact that I'm a musician. So that was helpful. But it's also like I'm going into this all of these knowing that it's it's only going to be a really small percentage of people that actually care enough to learn more about me, let alone go listen to my music.  It's a lot less. I don't know. There's for me, at least it's a lot less like mental pressure on it. If I can just create and do whatever and have fun, whatever I feel like doing and know that some of it's going to come back to me back to my music, then whatever, it's all it's all gravy, you know. I like that just from the standpoint of a lot of creators do speak under pressure and don't like the pressure of having to fit into a specific type of box or create content in general. But I feel like a lot of stuff that people don't like when it comes to content is them feeling I have to do a content that creates a specific formula and speaks in a certain way. Right. But if you're just doing stuff that you like and put it out there and it comes back to you, that sounds like an empowering and again, also like peaceful situation to be in. Yeah. The music is not. Like playful in that way that I've heard thus far, right? You're not like Will Al-Yankovitch or anything like that. Weird. Like you're you're comedic and all this other stuff you do. Like that's just you having fun. But your music is like just legit, just serious.  Yeah, yeah, yeah.  But I'm definitely not a comedic artist. I'm trying to make actual music that people are trying to listen to and connect with. But just me as a person, I am definitely like a goofball.  But that, yeah, that's that helps tying it in.  The more people can connect to you as a person. The more long term their their relationship with you will be.  They people who follow you like you and they would want to be around you and hang out with you because of the personality and the humor in it.  Like how you. Oh, yeah. I mean, we got to play that because we can play those videos or whatever. Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious, man. And yeah, I don't know, man. I think you definitely have fans. The fans of your music. I don't know what that number is, but you definitely have fans for you. Can you think of a comparison for him? Because again, he's not weird, Al. But he's also not like a little Nas X. I honestly, I think that really I honestly think his model is a little bit. I'm I'm kind of similar to that where, yeah, it's like his music is not a joke. But he the way that he conducts himself on the Internet is usually he's trolling in some way. And I definitely have I've talked about him as as like a as a reference for sure. Yeah, I I love the way that he's able to just grab people's attention in a way that's like it just feels natural to him.  So it's like I think it might be my nose. It might be probably be good. They're probably like one and two. Yeah. Oh, I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned, too, man. You mentioned your your friends in the comedy space. Like, do you have a comedy background? Is that the world you kind of came from or were in before music? I wouldn't necessarily say I have a background in it. But I just love I love comedy and I have I just have some friends who are in it and who do stand up and and and stuff. But I just I just love it. I did do a comedy podcast with them years ago. We did it was called 24 hour panic attack. And we and we podcasted for 24 hours straight and just like lost our minds. It was ridiculous. But no, I don't I don't I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a comedian per se, but I like doing funny stuff. I did try stand up one time, though, because because my friend Victor, who's a comedian, he basically called my bluff. It was like I was like, oh, yeah, maybe I would do stand up someday. He was like, all right, Ben, I'm signing you up right now. Like, he signed me up for an open mic and I had to go that night and just go. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually did it. I did it. I went 10 minutes, which is super long for especially for your first time. But it was I mean, it was like it was literally they had a the stand up comedian light. I don't know how anybody does that mentally, but yeah, they had this like open mic thing in like the back of a giant like moving truck, they had like a. They had like a stage inside it with chairs inside the truck. It was bizarre. It was so weird. But yeah, it was literally like I did it in front of like four or five of my friends and then like three comedians. It was like not a big crowd at all. But it was still nerve wracking, though. It's like I'm used to being on stage for music, but that's a whole other level of stress, just like that silence.  Like it's better to be funny. And I know you talked about too many. You weren't really thinking about how you were going to tie your music into the big Tesla moment, but kind of seeing what what happened with that. Like, are you planning to kind of do? Are you planning to incorporate these, I guess, mass scale trolls into your music promotion? I do you feel like you saw a line in a way that you could have tied that back to your music that you can move forward with? Yeah, I think just like we were saying, as long as people can identify with the with the personality aspect of it, as long as people, if they find me through the Tesla thing and they're they like me, I think that obviously there's a way that I can convert them into a listener. I think now I'm starting to I'm starting to think about just easy, simple things like maybe I'll do some merch that's related to the Tesla thing. Maybe I'll do I'm going to do some or when's this coming out? We don't know. So OK, but it'll probably well, actually it'll it'll be out by then.  But it'll just be funny. Um, just like tying doing more of that and tying it back to my music. Um, yeah, I don't I don't know. It's hard for me to I feel like a lot of a lot of times like before I started really, I guess, figuring out how to navigate social media for me. I always saw music marketing as something you have to have or the way that other people are doing is like this really long, like linear, like planned out thing that you have for you got like your whole like six months planned out. And I think that's great if you can do that. But for me personally, I have to kind of do it like piece by piece. And like I'll have I mean, if I have like an EP or something, like I definitely have stuff planned out for that. I've got all the dates lined up in the all right, I'm going to do promo videos around that. But because of the fact that I never know what is going to go viral, I feel like I have to just take it like piece by piece and just do kind of whatever I want and then and not think about it too much so that whenever I have these random things that do numbers, then I'm like, oh, OK, let me work with that and build the rest of it out. Like the Drake, I think even like I didn't know that anybody was going to care about that. It's like I don't I don't know. Like I just do these things and see what see what happens, you know. Yeah, if that makes me question, is there. Is trolling an art or science? I think it's a little bit of both because you have to it's like. When I'm when I'm doing stuff in that realm. It's a science in that I know or I'm taking pieces of things that I that I know people will react to. So it's like a science of piecing together. Those it's like a chemical reaction of like, OK, this will get this reaction. You put these together, people respond in this way. So you're trying to put together a reaction almost. But it's an art just in the way that you express it in your personality or whatever it is that you're you're doing, you know.  How would you? Well, I think it's all I think this ties into just being an artist in general or being or being somebody that makes things. You need to have a genuine perspective.  That's how you get, you know, the people who do. I always think of people who kind of they'll do like prank content, stuff like that, stuff that's like kind of mean spirited, stuff like that, just for attention and there's no real like. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's coming from anywhere except getting attention. If there is like something that is behind it, where like the Tesla thing is like I legitimately don't like Elon. So it's like it's not like of course, it's just a dumb, funny thing. But behind it is like there's real like there's a perspective behind it. You get what I mean? Um, and I think. I think a lot of artists and I think myself, I would struggle with this as I make music now even. But I think for a really long time, like, uh, it was hard for me to. I feel like your music has to have that, too. It's like why why should people care? It's like we all have the same tools. We all have really nice microphones and can get good quality beats, even if you don't produce or producers have really good quality equipment. Now everybody has the same tools now and we all have TikTok. We have the ability. Everybody has the ability to market themselves. Now it just becomes what's your perspective? What's your what's your taste? What do you like? What do you don't like? How do you express what you like versus what you don't like? That's the only thing that's going to separate us at this point. I think that's ultimately a good thing. Um, but but I think now it's less about like I'm I'm not quite as worried about like the exact techniques or doing things right. Or, uh, I don't know. I'm just trying to follow my like, uh, or I guess follow the feeling, you know, follow the the the way it makes me feel. What do I like? What do I not like? Anyway, that I could ramble about this forever. But that's my thoughts. No, man, I think you said a mouthful there in terms of just a value of perspective because we talk about that a lot. Like you said, as it relates to artists and when you look at comedy, right, these tweets that you put out, if people laugh at the same thing, now it's like, oh, he thinks this is funny. So now we can relate. We bond over being able to laugh at the same thing. So that's immediately a perspective, right? Yes, I'm going to tell a joke and I like that joke means I kind of like them, right? I like their perspective. He's funny. So now I want to see more from it. And by just reading the tweets, that's the crazy thing about it. You don't even have to hear the around it or hear the person talking. It's just like, yo, who's thinking these things? I like that. Right. Um, and just here to the hearing the tweets, man, uh, yeah, we'll probably like play the clip or something around it.  And one of the favorite ones was the world trace and it definitely because it just, yeah, the certainty of it, right? Yeah, yeah. And, and to add on to that. If you, if you think of like comedy is like a shared experience that's, uh, you know, you both think one thing is funny.  Music is a shared experience of like you. You can both share this, this, this feeling or this emotion at the same time, because this music is giving it to you. So there is a similarity there where it's all just about the human connection of the, of all this is like giving people something to attach themselves to and, and, and, and relate to. So some artists and managers are just waiting for lucky moments when the ones who are killing it have systems to consistently take artists to another level over and over again. And if you want to see what that looks like, we just did a collab where we not only show the system that we use that's resulted in Billboard hit some of the biggest viral moments on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. But also we got J.R. McKee to break down how he took an artist from zero to one of the biggest hit songs of 2022 and getting a Grammy in January of 2023. This is recent stuff. Not old tactics. If you want to check it out, go to www.brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy. Don't forget the www or it won't work because J.R. gets into the details of looking at the data decisions that got made, how much content got created and how they adjusted the content over time for different parts of the campaign. This is real behind the curtains type of stuff. So again, go to www.brandmannetwork.com slash Grammy. If you want to check this out and apply it to yourself. Back to the video. Have you ever thought about that mindfully when you create music? Or how do I create a shared experience or what am I really trying to emote? Yes, the creation process for me is kind of a difficult balance between those things because I'm trying not to overthink it, but then I'm also trying to be aware of those things too. So it's a little bit difficult sometimes to balance that, you know, and I think every anybody that creates art is going to is going to struggle with that a little bit. But yeah, I'm definitely aware of it. I guess I would say I start by. Just like any of any of these marketing things, I start by just doing throwing an idea out whatever it is. Doesn't matter what it is.  It can be funny. It can be sad. Whatever it is, whatever the first thing that comes. And then maybe I'll take some of this, this understanding or experience of like, OK, so how are people going to respond to this? Then I can start honing it. And and actually tying back to I said, like ideas, my whole series of giving out. So the way that I went viral for the first time on Tick Tock was this series that I do called Steel, this idea where I give out samples for people to flip. So I'll it's like, here's an idea, do something with it. And then I'm playing a synthesizer for 15 seconds. And then people sample that or I'm playing whatever instrument that was actually what. Grew my audience in the first place. And that I think the fact that that was like a shared experience and it was just. Here's an idea. Do something with it. Take it and do whatever you want that I think was.  Just do whatever you want with it. And I think in music marketing and I'm I'm sure you guys have talked a lot about this is like you don't want to come out the gate trying to sell people something. You don't want to come out the gate. Like trying to convince people to go to your Spotify immediately, like they got to like you for they got to even care that you exist first. You have to make them care first.  It's like.  If that's the first time I've heard of you like maybe I like what you did. That's that's great. But I might not go to your go listen to your discography.  But then I hear them again somewhere else.  Let me go check him out. You know, it takes a minute to for people to warm up to you. No, that's a fact. That's a fact. So I guess. Let's do it. Let's leave. Yeah, my bad. I go on all these tangents, but no man. I can tell that you really stay in that creative process and many people, all of us struggle, right? In terms of. The creation and then the commercialization of the creation and they require two different mental spaces. Yeah, flu. Right. Yeah. It sounds like you found not necessarily a balance, but you definitely found a way to stay in that creative bag and then use the algorithm life. Fortunately, the content. Algorithms at the moment. Allow you to scale. You know, the visibility of it without you having to do much other marketing activities at the moment. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's still. It's still important to have like the core, like, OK, if you're planning around a release or something, you got to do the normal. Basic things of. Telling people that you have music out. But everything around it is just. Pure, whatever, whatever you want to do, I think that's the best way to approach it. And when we're, you were talking earlier about people being worried about being stuck in a box with their content, stuff like that. I think I'm a perfect example of. Sticking to exactly the same thing is not always the best move. I'm a person who. I mean, so my social media journey, I would say. Really grew from the. So I did a song a day for an entire year. I literally I posted. Like.  And it was me producing it, writing it, recording a video, editing it every single day for an entire year. I was building that up. Once I finished that, and that, you know, I grew a bit for sure from that. And definitely personally grew, but, but my social media grew from that, but not crazy. But at the end of that, I, I was seeing that as like my box because that, because the people that discovered me from that were like, Oh, that's the guy that does the song a day. So then I was like, if people know me from that, then what do I do? I don't know. I'm stuck. So I was, I was really worried. But then a few weeks later, after I finished that, that was when I started randomly the steal this idea series. I didn't know that anybody was going to care about that. I just randomly did a video and then all of a sudden that blew up. And then now that's the thing where, oh, people discovered me from that. That's the steal this idea guy. So then I'm like, Oh, do I have to stick with this? Oh no, like am I stuck with this? But then, but the reality is you can always redirect. And especially like we've been saying this whole time, especially if people can attach to you and your personality, you can hop around to different things. And maybe they'll wish that you'll every once in awhile go do your format from before, but they're still going to like you regardless. It's not, they discover you for you, you know. So I try to, I still struggle with this all the time is, is like, Oh, should I be doing like the stuff that has been proven to work for me? Or should I keep trying stuff to, to go even harder?  I just randomly did that. My manager was like the night before I did that, he was like, yo, or actually it was all in one, a few hours. It was like, he texted me. He was like, yo, I just got this like one of the, one of the AI like site. It wasn't even one of the sites. It was like this Google drive thing. It was weird. It's like not even, I don't know where he found it. He was like, do you want me to put one of your songs through it? I was like, yeah, whatever. I don't know. So I gave him the acapella. He sent it back to me. We were laughing about it. He was like, oh, what if I put, what if I do one of those videos where it's like the somebody playing a video game under it? And then it just as a joke, like I, I've been seeing people do that, but I didn't think, I never really think that people are going to care because I'm just doing something. I think it's funny. But then, yeah, did numbers. But it actually, sorry, this is a whole other tangent, but it's really weird to see what goes super hard on Instagram versus TikTok and vice versa. Like my, the Drake AI thing is at like almost 400 K on on Instagram, but it's only at like 20 K or something on TikTok. It's like, what do, I don't know. And then some things I have that are like millions on TikTok and then it's like 10,000 on Instagram. Like, I don't know what it is, but. Yeah. Not at all.     I mean, they're weird across platforms. Yeah. We would think it all works, but it doesn't. And I think partially is the algorithmic differences, but part of it is even just the culture and space that people are in, when they're in all those different platforms has to have something to do with it. But yeah. It's cool to hear you break down that process of getting into one box and breaking out of another. And when you really put them together Steps of getting to know you and a career, people are going to know many individual things about you or associate you with many individual things, so you can't be afraid of getting associated with anything or else you'll never be associated with nothing, which means we just don't know you. We just don't care. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, hey man, it's been really dope talking to you. Do you have like a big plan or scheme that you want to reveal right now or, you know, perhaps until you take over the world? Man, for now, I'll just say everybody just follow me at Conor Massara. Learn how to spell that and pronounce that. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to drop an EP this summer.  Hey man, it'll be really interesting to see you like hone in a lot of these tactics and approaches that you do for your human just to your music and see what that comes out and see like a full scale marketing campaign, but either way it goes. Yeah. As she said, y'all follow and as always, this is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcast. I'm Brandon Manchin and I'm Conor, we out.


Talk about distorting institutions and, you know, so labor unions been going on a strike in America for well over 100 years, maybe it's 150 years. And labor unions have, for most of that period, or maybe all of that period have been affiliated and associated with the Democratic Party. But presidents in the past have really made an effort to not get involved. I mean, they might comment on unions, but really somewhat of a distance, primarily because there is an understanding in the American system that government has somewhat of, not completely unfortunately, but somewhat of an arms-length relationship to business and the economy. And the idea was, even if I support the labor unions, they need to work this out with management. They go on strike, and there's a negotiation, and they work it out. Now, certainly the Obama administration completely disrupted dad in a horrifying manner. One of the worst things any president has ever done was what happened with the auto industry in, I think it was 2010, when the Obama administration came in and kind of enforced, as part of a bailout, enforced settlements that restructured General Motors, and I think Chrysler as well, and basically screwed the bondholders and involved government intervention in ways that are new and very bad for the long-term prospects for America. But what President Biden did yesterday is really unprecedented. It's a president who's never done this. President Biden yesterday actually went to the picket line, where the UAW is picketing the auto companies and actually participated on the picket line. Now, this is disgusting, and an American, and another step in the direction of the presidents have been making for 100 years of greater and greater involvement of the government in our economy, in the very nature of employment, and the government already does a lot. But this is symbolically, it's not, nothing really happened, but it's symbolic. Here's the president of the United States taking sides, actually physically taking sides in a case where I think the auto unions for the most part are wrong because of, this is an inflection point in auto, in the industry, and they're going to put US auto companies, really put them in a place of real issues and problems and challenges given where the auto industry is heading. Anyway, he was on the picket line yesterday. Now we all know why he did it. He's trying to show up support for his campaign for president. He's trying to get the unions to support him. The unions are not happy with him particularly because of all the support for electric cars, which they know is going to hurt them. The fact that the Inflation Reduction Act, which supports batteries and electric cars and all of that, didn't include requirements that all these plants have labor union unions. So we know that he has to show up support from the union. We know he's in trouble with the polls. We know that he is very unpopular as a president. And in the latest poll, depending on which one you believe, he's either losing to Trump by eight points or in a dead heat with Trump. But in any case, he's not doing well. So he goes and he, I think compromises his position as president of the United States by taking a position and going and standing on a picket line. Disgraceful, disgraceful, disgraceful, disgraceful. And a sad point in what we are as a country and where the presidency today is.


Dear diary, today is Wednesday and it's my birthday and I'm 14 years old. Can you believe I found my diary from 1968? I always knew that I had a diary and that I kept it. I haven't looked at it and of course I lost the key so jimming it open was pretty easy But dear diary Today is Wednesday, February 14th 2018 and I am 64 years old. I Cannot believe I'm 64 years old and I know some of my passages in here that I wrote 50 years ago couldn't envision 64 I certainly couldn't at all. I'm also wearing a pair of my vintage earrings I think I probably got these in the 70s sometime So I thought they were pretty close to being in that era, but this video is totally inspired by Mary Ellen after 60 when she did her birthday video I thought it was the most wonderful thing that she did I loved listening to her story and I said to myself I have to do something similar and So I did and so this is my dear diary video and when I look at this and I opened to the very first entry of this diary It was written on my birthday and it says Wednesday Today is my birthday And I am 14 years old I got some shoes five dollars a coat some underwear and also it's Valentine's Day And I got some cards If I could go back to that 14 year old girl after reading this diary, there were some things I would definitely want to tell her June 5th The world has ended somebody killed Bobby Kennedy The world is over as much as That day was a dark day in your life It was not the end of the world You would go on to face many other dark days and face losses that you couldn't even imagine at 14 and while Bobby Kennedy's death was devastating to the young girl that you were you locked yourself in your room for four days You wouldn't eat you wouldn't talk You couldn't deal with the pain of that loss You will learn quickly That through all the darkness that can happen in your life That you can make a choice and you learned it so young You can make a choice a choice to grab the sun to see it the sunshine to feel it and To take and grab a hold of happiness and bring it within your heart because no matter how dark it is You learn that there's always another day and the sun will shine again and you'll face new trials and new issues But you'll always go forward with that attitude. The sun will always shine no matter what So dear diary life lessons my message to the young girl that I was 1969 oh my gosh You absolutely hated the fact and you thought it was some sort of wild Conspiracy that your father actually put jealousy windows in the new house You thought he did it on purpose so you couldn't sneak out at night And you certainly couldn't sneak out to go to Woodstock when all your other friends did But you know what Woodstock wouldn't have been a good place for you to be at that point in your life 15 year old girl you were young you were developed you were you know, you looked older You were idealistic you easily hurt and maybe easily led Woodstock wouldn't have been the place for you So it was a good thing your dad did put those jealousy windows in because if you didn't you probably would have gone And it's too bad that you didn't do the same thing when your kids were growing up and my mom She's so mean She says the most hurtful things to me.  If you say to her, do you like these pants on me?   You tried really hard to have a decent pout You worked on that pout you looked in the mirror when you pouted you took pictures with a pout because you just didn't like your smile and One thing that you did learn is over the course of time that your smile.  They're not your world You gave birth to them you tried to shape them and now you've got to let them fly and when you let them fly Thinking to make their own mistakes make their own decisions and as much as you want to stop that from happening as Much as you want to stop them from making those mistakes. You simply can't So yeah, you ran away. You got married. You had your babies.   I'm kind of afraid to open them up Not because of what they'll say, but because they're so fragile. This is 50 years ago But all of the I love Joe. I love Dickey.  I was the mom of two boys It was like a lot of fun But as you can see in this picture pretty scary Why didn't anyone ever tell me back then when I was young? To take care of my own health To use sunblock to think about skin care. I never thought about that Back when I was young. I was using baby oil to take off my makeup coconut oil mineral oil I was slavering that on my face to remove my makeup and also Baby oil to grow on the sunbake in the summer. I was definitely a son baby And then when I got married we always lived on a shoestring. We didn't have something called health insurance So while I had two boys and I had to take care of those two boys We always made sure they got the medical treatment. They needed their shots. They were checked up But we did not take care of our own health I cannot tell you in a ten-year period that I ever went to a doctor I certainly never had any kind of a pap smear or pelvic examinations or you know anything at all like that for a Long long time. So your health, you know, it's it's it's something you take for granted when you're young You don't ever think about it But you really need to think about it.  It's sad. It's ups and downs. It's been a good life Had I taken care of myself physically my health things would be better Absolutely health is number one But the one thing you will grow up to learn is to always have a kind heart To and sometimes it's just simply smiling at a stranger and sometimes it's more than that Sometimes it's actually going out of your way to do something for a stranger or for somebody but a Kind heart will take you far in life And that's a lesson you did learn early on and I'm so glad of that So yeah one day when you're 64 you will look back and you will reflect and you'll find the diary You wrote and you'll sit and read it and you'll go. Oh my gosh. I Really felt that way. I really thought that way So here I am 64. Happy birthday to me. Happy Valentine's Day to everyone Thank you for watching this video. Please give me a thumbs up. Please leave a comment I would truly truly appreciate it and hug someone and smile at someone and Have have make a choice every day No matter what make a choice every day to be the best possible you you can be The best possible you you can be that's a choice No matter what circumstances no matter what I have doc moments in here very very doc moments in here To the point when I've read them I cried But every single doc moment that I've had in here helped shape me into the person I ultimately became So how many of you have your diary? Do you still have your diary? I was like I Was like wow, I'm diary So thanks so much for humoring me on my birthday Hope you all have a happy Valentine's Day and just have a great great great day and be happy Bye guys


Hello, I'm Mark Reep. I've been in the chemistry department for 30 years and one thing that I like about Nebraska is that Combining research teaching and service. It really works here and everybody is Focused on the same goal. Let me tell you about three coincidences So Nebraska the symbol is any well, there's an element neon the symbol any number two that UNL is a member of the Big Ten Academic Alliance and Neon is the 10th element Three if you put neon in a tube and you electrify it it close big red Hello, my name is Chico de Bioma Associate Professor of Creative Writing in English at the University of Lincoln and Nebraska Lincoln so doing being a researcher at the University has been Really a thing of joy. So I find that the quietness of the place the Lack of you know major crowd has been good for me as a writer So and I have a very supportive Department the English Department My colleagues are very wonderful people and the society they at large they you know I've been to a lot of events where people read my book whether I appreciate My writing so it's been it's been a wonderful Hi, I'm Amy Goodburn a professor of English and Dean of undergraduate education I've been at UNL for 26 years and have founded a great place to pursue the intersections of teaching Research and community engagement Currently I'm working with several other faculty in the departments of computer science and mathematics on an NSF STEM scholars grant We are collaborating with one another and two community colleges to build programs for undergraduates from rural low-income and unrepresented minority communities Throughout my career, Nebraska has given me opportunities to partner with educators and researchers across the state as we work to close equity Gaps and ensure that all students have the resources and support they need to succeed Hi, I must sit back night I came to Nebraska soon after the Nebraska Center for virology was established I was particularly impressed with this unique opportunity to be associated with a group of researchers Having diverse areas of expertise in human animal and plant viruses I established collaboration with a faculty working on a swine virus That is economically important to the state of Nebraska and the USA through our research and collaborative efforts We have developed a vaccine against this virus Currently, we're attempting to develop vaccines against the pandemic coronavirus with a rapid response grant from the office of research and economic development Thank you Hi, I'm Wendy Smith, and I'm a mathematics education researcher in UNL Center for science math and computer education Research I do spans preschool teachers all the way through college math instructors and everything in between I focus a lot on teaching and learning and institutional change The goal for all of this is how do we improve mathematics and more broadly STEM teaching and learning? How do we broaden participation and close the opportunity gaps mostly through to teacher professional development and changing the culture? So that actively engaging students is the norm Nebraska is an ideal place to work school districts and educational service units are our partners and people really care and want to be able to improve teaching and learning to keep our students in our state for their college and careers Hello, my name is James Cheko, and I am an assistant professor in the Department of Chemistry My laboratory studies the molecular mechanisms by which cells communicate in living systems with the long-term goal of identifying novel therapeutic targets To combat disease Nebraska is the perfect place for my research because UNL fosters an environment which values basic science Supports interdisciplinary work and embraces diversity in many forms here I am surrounded by students and colleagues who care and who work hard to accomplish our mutual goals This makes every day exciting and rewarding, and I am proud to have the opportunity to work with this community Hello, everyone. This is professor should if the dictionary I'm an assistant professor in chemical and biomolecular engineering at University of Nebraska, Lincoln Nebraska has given me the resource Infrastructure and support that has been critical for my success and my research aims to benefit My community state and beyond by offering innovative solutions to achieve energy sustainability and biosustainability So thank you, Nebraska for being my support system. Go be great


All right, so we're gonna start off by sectioning out the mannequin now preparation is so important If you find yourself struggling with speed in the salon a lot of it has to do with the thought process prior to the Execution so work through it plan out your sectioning for me today I work and I try to figure out where that curve of the head is right in the fringe area And then I draw a triangle on each side So we create two triangles in the front fringe section And then we're going to find that crown area in the back And I'm going to draw a line over to that recession point this video is sponsored by the new FSE hair cutting system Available at shop FSE comm this system was designed for individual stylists salons and schools Included in the FSE hair cutting system You get a digital hair cutting book printable head sheets for each haircut eight step-by-step videos Terminology 101 video also a completion certificate that you can hang in your salon or school to download your copy of the FSE hair cutting system Go to shop FSE comm can't wait for you guys to see it. Thank you so much for the support All right So now that we've got the top sectioned out basically what I do is I find that center crown point and I draw a line Slight diagonal forward just to directly behind the ear And I scoop everything up with a giant comb and I clipper it all off at once now The key thing there is to make sure you got a nice elevation Which creates a little bit of extra over direction and length towards the bottom of the section And I just keep working those diagonal forward Partings and clippering everything off that gives me that kind of forward Closed feel to the haircut as we work through now We can mimic the exact same thing on the opposite side now key thing here Notice that my clipper is still moving towards the face I do that the same on both sides because my goal is to make sure that I'm always pushing that weight in the same direction Now I blow dry that whole outer perimeter Through it check the weight distribution make sure the texture is where I want it to be And then I start working through the top sections now. I'm going to use a brand new tool From free salon education. This is the tri razor. It's a three-sided razor It's got a hundred percent cutting side and then two texturizing sides one cuts 25 percent the other cuts 50 percent I'm going to use the 50 cutting side to work my line now. The reason I use the 50 side Is because I want to Slowly remove the weight which will soften the edge and create more texture now look How I condense that entire section together cut it all at the same point and it just creates this really fun Nice lightweight feel and then I take that front triangle.  So now you can see already it looks like a cool haircut But we're just going to style it up with a little palm. It's all invisible wear memory Shaper this is a nice lightweight product, but it's got a really good control to it When you want to create a nice polished look. So I blow dry the sides Using just my hands and the air from the blow dryer and then I work through the top round brushing it off the face And then just kind of working it back. That's going to give me volume And that nice smooth shine polish to it The other question you guys might have is you might really like the hair color I use the rose gold Flash toner flash finish from Paul Mitchell as well left that on for 20 minutes on blonde hair And I got this beautiful rose gold Effect now I'm just going through and just lightening up My shape with the tri razor at the hundred percent side and just softly going in and cutting it You'll see how that creates kind of some negative space within that weight Which will make the haircut nice and lightweight add a little bit of texture to it help keep some of that volume up This is great for medium hair Fine hair thick hair. It really works on everyone. You just kind of Change up that technique just a little bit. See how I go in just nice soft effect Key tip with the tri razor just make sure you keep it at about 45 degree angle as you go into the hair You'll get a nice soft feel so now a little bit of hair spray. I like a dry hair spray on medium to fine hair This is a super cool haircut guys. I know you're going to be able to use it right away in the salon Just pick apart these techniques and see which one fits you the best If you're looking for a tri razor go to shop fse.com And if you really want to up your haircutting game download the fse digital haircutting system by clicking the link in the description below Thanks for watching There's a few things that you have to understand about haircutting before you can really jump into doing haircuts These are all things that i'm going to teach you guys in the next eight haircuts Truly understanding the why behind what you're doing in hair cutting can make hair cutting So much more fun and make you way more successful behind the chair


How do you know what commands to use from the terminal those you know those defaults write commands that you use to change some of those settings that don't appear anywhere else? Somebody was asking like how do you find what those commands are? And Serab was like oh I use macOS-defaults.com. This website is like it's just got so many things and they are organized by category you've got ones for the finder ones for the desktop the trackpad mission control I like and then there's miscellaneous of course but just so many different things and you click on it and it'll tell you all these defaults write commands it's amazing I like so yeah I found out I was like oh wait a minute and then actually other listeners are like Dave Dave did you see this you got to include this on the show it's like yeah I agree


Hi, my name is Fernando and I'm the Technical Marketing Manager here at GitLab. And today I'm going to go over some of the newly released security features of GitLab 14.10. The first feature I want to go over is Compliance Report Individual Violation Reporting. The Compliance Report now reports every individual merger cost violation for the projects within a group, which is a huge improvement over the previous version, which only showed the latest MR that had one or more violations. Now let's take a look at this more in depth. In order to access the Compliance Report from our group, we go to Security and Compliance and click on Compliance Report. Here we are provided with the Compliance Report page, which has been newly updated. You can see and sort by severity, compliance violation, the merge request which violates compliance. When clicking on an item, you're provided with additional information, which highlights who made changes, who reviewed, who approved, as well as who the merge request was actually merged by. This provides us with a more in depth compliance overview of our compliance violations. The next feature I want to go over is the user interface for streaming audit events. Now in the past release videos, I showed how to set up streaming audit events using the GitLab GraphQL API. But now you can create streaming audit events via the UI, making it a lot easier to add and remove streaming audit event destinations, as well as see the list of locations where streaming audit events are being sent to. This can be done in your group by going to the Security and Compliance tab and clicking on audit events. You can then click on the Streams tab. This is an active event stream, which I am sending my events to. I can click the plus button to add a new destination to send my audit events, which makes it easy to configure. We've also added improvements to our SAS scanners, specifically making Java scanning easier. SAS scanning now uses SEMgrep to scan Java code, which runs significantly faster, up to seven times faster in our testing than the existing analyzer, which was based off of spot bugs. And along with the Java improvements, we've also updated other static analysis analyzers. By scrolling down, we can see the updates along with the change logs for each specific analyzer. This is part of an ongoing effort to maintain our open source tools, as well as our internal tools, and continue to update them as new releases are provided. And last, I'd like to show that you can now manually create a vulnerability record. In the past, this could have been handled via the API, where we can create a vulnerability by sending a request to the GitLab GraphQL API. But since then, we've added a way to actually create vulnerability records using the UI. This enables the security team to be able to actually create a vulnerability that has not been detected by our scanners, or something that is not normally a vulnerability, but it does affect our system. Now let's take a look at how this works. Within our project, we can go to the security and compliance tab and click on the vulnerability report. Within our vulnerability report, we can see a new button at the top right, which says submit vulnerability. Upon clicking on it, we're provided with an input field, which allows us to provide a name, description, severity, status, as well as list identifiers, which are associated with the CVE or CWE of the vulnerability. We can also add a solution for reference. Once we click on submit vulnerability, a new vulnerability entry will be added to the vulnerability report. When going back to the vulnerability report, when sorting by tool, we'll now have manually added vulnerabilities. And here we see ours. And again, thanks for watching, and I hope you enjoyed this video. To keep up to date with the new GitLab security releases and other features, which are released every 22nd of the month, please click on that subscribe button and be sure to read the links in the description. Thanks again.