Welcome to the EDUCAUSE Rising Voices podcast, where we amplify the voices of young professionals in higher education. My name is Sarah Buska, and I'm joined by West Johnson. We are part of the EDUCAUSE Young Professionals Advisory Committee, or WAPAC, and we are the hosts of this podcast. Welcome. How are you doing today, Wes? I am doing good. The holidays are about to come up. We were talking earlier before the show about the need for recharge. I'm very much looking forward to forgetting about work for a little period of time and getting the shock of coming back. How about yourself? As well, I'm feeling very similarly. I'm also thrilled to introduce John O'Brien and Chris Bradney to the show. Hi, John. Hi, Chris. How are you? Hello. We're also looking forward to some recharge time as well. You too, Chris. I assume. Yeah, love it. Yes. Well, the problem is it takes it takes three days or two days just to for your heart rate to settle. And so it's really just like three days, you know, so. But hell, I'll take them however I can because it's exactly. Yeah, they're ruining it with the data. Exactly. Well, we are so thrilled to have you both here joining us today for this really important topic to talk about strategic planning. And I don't think we could be joined by better folks to discuss this topic with us and young professionals. But before we dive in, one thing we really love doing on the show is asking folks to introduce yourself, share your name, your position, the institution and what your superpower is. So, John, we'd like to start with you. Would you be willing to introduce yourself to our audience? John O'Brien, I'm the president and CEO of EDUCAUSE. Superpower. You know, I'm somewhat joking, but my family would say my superpower is worrying, which isn't always a healthy, you know. So when we talk as a community about wellness, I know what that looks like, and you can call it worry or anxiety or whatever. But it is a superpower. I mean, for me, worrying is this sometimes unfortunate ability or tendency to look ahead.  I had free access to a pool table and a friend who was better than I at pool. And billions are great because if you're playing, you're always thinking, not, am I going to make this shot? But it's, what about the next shot and what about the next shot? And, you know, we're going to talk about strategic planning. And that's what strategic planning is. For me, personally, it also can convey itself. Something happened with your microphone. Just it just is randomly switching. So I'll switch back now. The other mic isn't even available. Let's see. Computers are weird. Yeah, nothing like a good windows update to reshuffle everything like we didn't touch a button.  Now we can't hear you at all. We can't hear you at all. Nope, nothing. Nope. Here we go. No, and now it is right? There you go. There you go. Yep. All right. So I'll try to pick it up where I left off. So like a good in a good game of billiards, you're thinking about not just the shot I'm going for, but the one after and the one after. And we're going to talk about strategic planning where that's maybe the definition of strategic planning is thinking beyond the next shot. But but for me personally, you know, I do that maybe too much. Sometimes it's it's, you know, I don't enjoy the present moment enough because I'm thinking about what could what's next and and scenarios in my head about what could happen next. So, you know, it's a it's a superpower, except for when it's not, if that makes sense. I could have a better answer, but that's what's on my mind today. Chris, what about you? I'm just talking about vacation. Yeah, we were talking about. There you go. Yes. Well, hello, everyone. Chris Bradney, I currently serving as the director of strategic technology initiatives at California State University, San Bernardino. Been here for about five years. I'm going on six years now. My superpower, I'm going to I'm going to change it up, not what Sarah is expecting. I'm going to say tenacity and it's for a specific reason. John and I have something in common in that we both recently hit 1000 days consecutive on Duolingo. So that takes, you know, a lot of tenacity to keep that that streak up. So really, really excited that yesterday, actually. So congratulations. A lot of fun, a lot of fun getting there. That is great. What language were you studying? I'm studying Japanese right now. Oh, and I'm studying French. Wow. Well, maybe your next vacations will bring you there and you can actually practice when you're on vacation. I started studying French and Duolingo in 2020 just before our big vacation to Paris. That didn't happen. Thanks, COVID. Yeah. Yeah. I want to make it real quick for for the audience, if you don't mind, I know a little add on for Chris is that that tenacity also plays a big role in this show you have here today. Chris is part of our editorial team and he plays a big role in helping us set up these pockets.  I love it. It brings me such joy. We can tell him we're thrilled you're here. Thank you. So with that, we've been kind of swirling around the topic of strategic planning. And I just want to start off and maybe I'll ask John and then Chris, of course, we welcome you to chime in. Why is strategic planning crucial for higher education institutions today? Well, well, I think it's crucial because I think you would not plan a vacation that involved travel without some map and some sense of where you are going. You know, I think you could be overly regimented about a plan and and that, you know, you can do it badly. Well, you know, you can do anything badly, but when it's done well, when a strategic plan is done well, it sets a framework of how you're thinking about the future, brings people together. It's one of those things that, you know, the old saw about strategic planning is that it's the end product is less important than the process that got you there. It's it's by virtue of having people come together and talk about what's matters to them and what's important to them and that that is always good. You know, I was on I was a provost of a large system and we went to do an HLC accreditation visit and we were there in Chicago meeting with the accreditor people. And we looked around in the room and said, we've never met on campus before. Like strategic planning and the travel to another city is what it took to get these key people together to talk about the future. So, you know, you there are different opinions about how valuable strategic planning as an end product is. But as a process, I think it's absolutely crucial. And I will say from my part as an end product, it has been incredibly valuable. When I worked at the system as a deputy CIO, I was responsible for so overseeing strategic plans, technology strategic plans at all of our 30 plus campuses. And so I got to see the whole gamut plans that were you could tell were really important and meaningful and consequential and you could see right away plans that were meant to immediately go up on a shelf, gather dust and be nothing other than check the box that, yes, we did a strategic plan. So I think it's valuable. I think the process is invaluable. Yeah, I love what you said, right? There's there's so much value there in in having the conversations and really making it not the we've checked the box, we've done the work. I like to I like to think of strategic plans and higher education institutions like ships, right? Like a large cargo ship is going to take a long time to turn a long time to stop a long time to pivot. And strategic planning is really just that looking ahead and saying, OK, well, where are we trying to get to? And now what are we're not going to prescribe every moment? We're going to change whatever. But just our intention is we're going in this direction. We've got to start, you know, moving the ship in this in this direction. And I'll go ahead, please. So the other thing I think that is really valuable for strategic planning is that it's really it's really easy and fun to say yes to everything. But a good strategic plan is that filter, which you put, you know, decisions through to say, is this in line with where we're trying to go? Or is it not? And it's really that filter to be able to say no to what you need to say no to so you can actually get to something meaningful and valuable. And, and, you know, we're. Probably well, I'm thinking because we just did one of an of an institutional strategic plan like we like we did for for Educos, but, you know, any area can also have a strategic plan. I remember I used to work in a large state system, you know, and it was super regulated, regimented. And so I was in a higher someone from another campus as a chief student affairs officer. And but, you know, the way it works, you can't give them more money for the same job. So it's sort of like, well, I really want you to come. I can't give you any more money. And his answer endeared me to him for all of time. He said, well, I'm not interested in that. What I'm interested in is whether you'll let me do strategic enrollment management. And I said, well, hmm, OK, I can look at that. And in just that process of enrollment management strategic plan, the thing about that that really was unforgettable was it keeps you from overreacting and oversteering in a way to when you have a plan. And like if you do strategic enrollment management, you say, oh, my gosh, enrollments down, we're going to have to do this and this and this and this. Or you can say, yeah, and it's down because we know the demographics and in the long term in three years, it's going to be up. And we can sort of have a little more perspective. And it can I do think higher education has a certain propensity for oversteering at times, oversteering and being responsive versus strategic oversteering. Sometimes as we all know in I.T. better than anybody hype, somebody went to a conference and then next thing you know, everybody's jumping on some bandwagon or another being strategic is sort of an antidote to oversteering and maybe a little bit of an antidote to hype as well. That's a really great point and something that I heard Chris say as well along the same lines, John, is applying some type of a filter when thinking about strategic planning. And I'm curious, maybe this is questions for you, Chris. If you could talk more about what that filter actually is, what's under the hood? What does that look like? Because I think for many young professionals and folks just coming into higher education, we may not realize what the filter looks like first of all, but also how to calibrate that to make it fit our environment. So what would you say, Chris? I think it's a complicated answer. But let me let me tackle it in this way. There's a couple of things that I'm thinking about in terms of this filter. One is, you know, a strategic plan when you're planning, there's going to be some very definite steps, action items that you're going to take immediately. But down the road into the future, right? It's not a crystal ball that you're going to be able to be able to 100 percent predict where, you know, where the future holds. And so a good strategic plan will really lay out what is the outcome we're trying to achieve? What's what, you know, what is the change we're trying to make? And as you get further away from the end of that strategic planning process and into that unknown future, that filter becomes, OK, well, we know the direction that we're trying to go and there's reasons for it, right? There's there's evidence behind it. And now we're encountering situations and being able to say, OK, does this decision, does this direction align with this bigger move that we're trying to make?  Because if there's anything I've learned in higher ed, is that there's opportunities everywhere, right, that you could go do good work in a thousand different directions. But the real challenge is finding the one or not the one, but the handful of right directions and right decisions to make that carry you in that strategic direction. Because ultimately, if we're all running around in different directions and trying to accomplish different things and not in a coordinated, synergized way, we're we're going to have an impact, but maybe not as great of an impact if we were to bring those that that effort and that work together across disciplines, across areas on campus that we're really focusing in on. How do we drive the outcomes and the impacts we're trying to have? So I hope that answers the question. It does. And I'll keep I'll keep asking questions. So, West, you have to jump in and hold me back. I'm passionate about this topic. I got you. One more question for you, Chris. I heard you say right past. And I think for so many of us, especially as young professionals coming into higher education, it can seem like every path is the right path, right? And depending upon one lens you look at at it through, it might be. So how do you recommend and how do you lead your teams to towards identifying what these right paths are? And do you have any advice or how to identify them? And that question also goes to John, too. Oh, so I'm actually making a pitch this afternoon right after this recording for your warm up. How do we how do we assess the work ahead of us? Assess multiple different types of requests, multiple different opportunities and say, OK, of these many, you know, we could get I'm going to make up numbers here.  They can all be, you know, have a lot of merit to them. But which of these is feasible for us to actually take in and accomplish? And then which of these are going to create the most value in alignment with the direction of other departments on campus and other teams in a way that, you know, we're saying, yeah, there's many good things, there's many right things. But but for us to be strategic, we have to select the the handful of things we can realistically accomplish, get those things done rather than, you know, yeah, we had a hundred great ideas and we're working on all of them. All of them are in flight, but none of them are actually getting done. We're not actually seeing the benefit of any of them. So it's it's really a way to, like I said, be able to say no to really good ideas because they're not right for the right time. Right. Well, everything's a priority. Nothing is. Yeah, there's Stanley Fish had you had a great cynical response to the, you know, the old standby about how there's no such thing as a as a bad as a bad question. He said there's no such thing as a bad question, but some are better than others.  And I'll just say it based on lots of experience that, you know, your strategic plan is authentic and and powerful and strong when everybody tries to follow all over themselves, saying that their initiative that they're requesting money for is is aligned with the strategic plan when they don't do that. You know, you don't have a plan that's that's being seen as serious. But when you do, people will say, yeah, but I need money for this thing because it's going to advance the strategic prayers along those lines. I just feel super strongly about this one thing I'll say now. And that is that go into a strategic planning process with everything aligned around having just a handful of priorities. And that's a tough one for higher ed because, you know, to our to our credit, we're all about inclusion in everything. You know, we want everybody to feel valued and our campuses do do so much, you know. So how are you going to have a plan that prioritizes just three, four, maybe five things? It's hard to do. I've been on campuses and we said at the very beginning, we are going to only have six priorities, because if we have more than that, then everything's a priority. And so we said, we're only going to have six. We get to the end of the process and we've got 12. And, you know, and and and there was an English major on the on the on the group who said, hey, I can combine them with semicolons. And now we're only have six. If, you know, if you have the sort of a Frankensteinian stitching together of then again, if you can come up with just a few. And really, I and to full disclosure, I couldn't do it.  How can you not have something about students? How can you not have something about diversity and inclusion? How can you not have something about, you know, and then pretty soon, the real estate's all used up. And then then it's a question of what are you going to say isn't a priority? And that's that's hard. But I was at EDUCAS. We did our first strategic plan after I arrived in 2017, 16. And then rolled it out in 2017. And we had only three priorities. And it was amazing what you can do when you just have three. And and this is our strategic plan for this next three to five years. It fits on a laminated page. And so we can bring it out and show it to people. And it only has three priorities. And that just so pleased about that doesn't mean that all the other stuff that has to happen, that's operational, that's important, that's ongoing, doesn't happen. It just means that for the next three to five years, these these three things are our areas of focus. So for what it's worth, maybe people listening are smarter and better than I am and are going to figure a way to do it on a campus. It's a challenge, though. So, John, if I may, I actually have a question. I had an opportunity to read through. I believe there was an article that you offered that kind of discussed gave us a little context to the EDUCAS plan. And in the section on, I think it was risk and resiliency. Somewhere within there, there was a section where we spoke and said that the innovation definitely plays a role in setting direction of strategic planning, often the risk and resiliency of a particular institution plays a great role. It didn't say greater, but I kind of read from it that it could play a greater role. I say in my own personal experience, the risk appetite of a particular institution generally played an even bigger role than coming with innovative ideas. But connecting it to a recent episode, the last episode we did for this podcast when we were debunking myths for young professionals, one of the things that came up was that, you know, young professionals, we tend to feel like we get brought to the table when folks want new and different and refreshing ideas. So we get limited experience in understanding the risk and resilience of a particular institution. So I'll get to the question now. What would be so we haven't even been to the question yet? Yeah, we haven't even got to the question. I was always I was already saying, I don't know if I can remember this question. I'm glad this isn't a job interview. So the question with that. How do you want to write the question is, are the things that either one of you have learned over this, whether through this process or throughout your career that you want to pass on to young professionals of how to build up that understanding of the resilience piece that seems to play a big role in planning and how they can come to the table with a more holistic view, because there's a hunger out there for young professionals to be a little bit more involved with strategic planning. So I pose that you want me to start, Chris, or do you want to start? Well, I heard a couple of things and both both I really want to talk about and one is sort of you the strategic priority. Let me check strategic priority number two.  Strategic priority number two is build institutional capabilities to manage risk and build resilience in an era of systemic change. And what I love about that is if there was ever in an area where we tend to be reactive and not strategic, it's risk. We I mean, the part of risk management that can be very strategic is if you have a risk register, you know, edge of course has a risk register template we can share with you. But you know, then you're starting to get ahead of the risk as opposed to responding to it when it when it happens and that and both are necessary. But but this focus that we have for the next three to five years on on resilience sort of becomes the strategic framework to approach risk. I mean, if yes, managing risk is important, managing, managing, managing strategic approach to risk is say, how do we change our institutions? How do we transform our institutions to be more resilient to be able to proactively prevent a bad thing from happening? And then when the inevitable bad thing happens, how do we stay strong? How do we how do we deal with it in a competent way? And that that's why I really love yelping those two together. Your other question and you used a word that I was going to get back to, which is the table, right? That's like the that must be the one of the most persistent questions, frustrations, lamentations of young professionals.  Who wouldn't want to be at the table? But how do you get to the table and how do you behave when you're at the table? And strategic planning is a particularly tricky one because it tends to be senior people, which demographically is going to rule out people and not, you know, not maliciously, but it's going to if you're not a seasoned leader, if you've if you've only been there, you know, a certain number of years. So that's a really tricky thing. But what what you can do, first of all, is remember, I talk about strategic planning throughout an organization. So you may not be at the table for the for the college or university plan. But you could be the person who says to the CIO at the organization, hey, I noticed we don't have a technology plan. I'd love to work on that. I'd love to, you know, I'd love to put together a group and help with that. Nothing more powerful to get at a table than to than to, as my wife used to always say to the kids, make yourself indispensable, make yourself indispensable. Volunteer for stuff that's important.  Maybe, you know, maybe you get noticed as a person on campus who is passionate, competent and willing to do the work on this. You're going to get people's attention for that. But I do think, you know, the the infusion of strategic thinking is also valuable, whether or not it's directly you personally are directly involved in the planning process. So that's Chris, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to I was going to jump in on that, you know, the conversation around the table as well. And if there's one thing I really want to impart to higher education, you know, institutions, you know, IT, maybe specifically is there's there's a really a great need to avoid the echo chamber, right? Of the same people always having the same conversations, always moving in the same direction. There's there's there's a lot that can be lost there.  Last time we went through strategic planning, the perspective that they brought was, well, no, these are the lived experiences of our customers. Here's the here's what they're going through. And so then then it's almost becomes a risk to not address these things, right? To to answer that question or like my least favorite phrase I hear on campus all the time is, well, this is the way we've always done this, right? It's it's leveraging that the talent of the young professionals to question those things and say, well, why is that the case? Here's the, you know, here's the harm that this is causing our institution by carrying these legacy decisions that have been, you know, been made a decade or more ago into the future. Like we got to drop those things and we've got to do it in a way that builds, you know, risk, risk tolerance and resilience and all, you know, all these other things for the institution. But sometimes it's the risky thing to do is to continue doing the same thing. So that's, that's, you know, really where, you know, I've seen young professionals really excel is, is coming at things with fresh eyes and those questions. And, you know, you, sir, I think maybe before we started recording or I heard somebody make some comment about, you know, young professionals are called on when they need a fresh perspective and a fresh voice. Like that's the, that's the collective superpower of young professionals. All true.  So I just think, I think always and to Chris, what you said about, you know, the opposite of the young, of the sort of collective young professional voice, which is new, new, new is that we've always done it this way, old, old, old. And, you know, I would encourage young professionals not to fall into a binary that there are things about the way we've always done things that are really, really good. There are things that are new that are really, really good. And, you know, this is the era of two, two letter acronyms, you know, we're all running around falling all over ourselves talking about AI. There's another AI that people who are old professionals like me, remember, and it's an initiative, I guess, or a movement a while back called appreciative inquiry. And if you don't know, if you've never heard that, look it up. It's such a powerful way of approaching problems that I think it would be great if young professionals embraced because it, it doesn't say there's bad and good. It appreciative inquiry says there's a problem. Can we find one place on campus that has solved it?  But is there one department, one unit who has figured out how to do it better? And let's lift, let's find a way as a culture to lift those up. And I would say that's the voice for the young professional, not just new, new, new, new, new, old is bad, bad, bad, bad. But let's think differently about, about that. And let's find things that are new within our own organization. I mean, we have the answers. These issues about enrollment and blah, blah, blah and workforce retention. We know the answers are within us. But what department isn't suffering a retention problem? Let's, let's dig into that who's not. And it changes the conversation. It makes things positive. And boy, wouldn't it be great if you were the person who steered the conversation in that direction? And I just, I'd encourage people to, to think about that. The last thing, and then I'll be quiet for at least a little bit, is I have to share and I can't remember who said it. It's probably attributed to everybody from Winston Churchill to Maya Angelou, but it's, it's some amazing person said, I'm not, I'm not looking for a place at the table. I want to change the table. And I love that. I love that because that is fundamentally what needs to happen. We need to change how we bring people together, how we make decisions. We just, we shouldn't be leaving out major voices like young professionals and others. So we need to, and that would be a fantastic conversation to be a part of. Well, I think we have an opportunity for it. And I'm actually one of my questions, you know, channeling this appreciative inquiry lens is, how would you recommend that folks get started on that, John? How can we flip the script, change the table, so to speak, and bring more of those maybe disparate groups together in new ways? You know, you can really think about I used to work in an offer in a department of academic affairs as a provost. And every month, I think it was, this is back when everything was on campus. Every month, the academic affairs department would take another department out to lunch. And it was as a thank you. And it was, it was just a way to thank a department. So, you know, after, I think we did it every other month or something. So after a, after a year, you took six departments out to lunch and built relationships and built connections. And can you think of anything more powerful than that? You remember that whole, people don't remember what you said, but they remember how you made them feel.  How did you make them feel? Are you sprinkling throughout, you know, these, where you are the one reaching out to connect with people? Because when people are setting a table, they're looking for people who they want at the table, who are gracious and who are thoughtful and courteous.   What are they going to say about you when you leave? Oh, Wes, he was so thoughtful. He used to do this and he used to do that. I mean, that, those kinds of things.  You know, just, just do everything perfectly is all. And then, and then you're good. No pressure. Yeah, no pressure. Where we at on the G. If I may, I want to double down just a bit on what you just shared, John, because probably one of the most impactful things that happened in my career. So I used to report to amazing CIOs named Timothy Chester works at the University of Georgia. And when he first got there, when he first got there, we, IT had just become kind of a central department. So there was a lot of trust that we were rebuilding. They had done a lot of great work. One of the seemingly minor at the time things he did that I think really played a big role and where what he's been able to accomplish up to now is similar to what you just said. He set up quarterly meetings with the deans. He would invite multiple IT folks, depending on the topic. And then he would open the invite to whoever the dean wanted to invite to the meeting. And we were literally just meet to share what we've been working on at a high level and ask them what their technology needs are. And it would just be a quick 45 minute meeting. But those were his same allies when we started getting to the big hard meetings that we had to have. And we really had to start saying no to this or saying yes to that. And I copied that same methodology in my own career and was able to see success. Just on doing that, I've never been much of an innovative person. I try to get to the simplest solution possible. But it made it a lot easier because I'd already built that rapport and kind of followed that similar model. So I just wanted to put that out there into the universe.  And I'll bet every single instance of that was EQ in leaders. But you need EQ all over the map. You need EQ as a young professional, maybe more than anybody because you're navigating some tricky waters trying to, what's my place? What's my lane? What's my voice? I think we should be doing EQ training, emotional intelligence training for young professionals, not just wait till you're a leader. And then, if you haven't figured out EQ by the time you're a leader, you're probably in trouble. And these gestures, like I said, and like you just said, this is such a strange thing to say, but I could tell you every single person at work who came to my mom or dad's funeral. I can tell you each and every one, I could tell you where they sat in the church because it was so powerful to me that they took time to come.  It was just because of the relationships that they cared enough to come and just think about stuff like that. And again, you don't wait to be a leader to do it. And I'll say everybody who came were seasoned people who I worked, would have blown my mind if somebody who had only worked at the campus for three or four years showed up. That would have really given me something to think about. Anyway, that may not be apropos of nothing. Jerry will just edit it out probably, but... Not going to edit that one out. Not going to edit that one out. That was a great point. Jerry likes us to do this live, so... He's quiet, but he's making notes. You know, we've been talking about emotional intelligence and I just think that is such a great example of a skill that is necessary for strategic thinking. And my question to Chris and John, really, is we've been talking about emotional intelligence as necessary still. But strategic thinking, you know, when I think about it, it can be so many things. And how might you describe strategic thinking and what are those underlying skill sets that you would recommend young professionals can start honing or prioritizing as they start building their careers and moving towards these executive leadership roles? Thank you. Good question. First, I'm feeling a little thinking over what I said because I also want to acknowledge, I mean, lifting up emotional intelligence and EQ is not going to surprise anybody because it sometimes, maybe especially, lately feels like a skill that society is lacking. But I'll also just acknowledge neurodiversity is a thing.  So, I mean, it takes everybody. And the collective strategic voice should include all these other voices as well. And I tend to value the emotional intelligence part, but I don't want to say that that's the only thing that matters. And I think the second part of your question was how do young professionals... Yeah, you're on it. So, really, my question is pretty broad, but we've been talking about emotional intelligence, of course, is this necessary help? Oh, how do you prepare for it? Yeah. So, how can young professionals really, you know, what other skills can they be honing and thinking about as we grow and progress in our roles towards those senior leadership positions? Well, I think Chris needs to get a word in here edge-wise. So, I'll just say one thing and then hand the mic to him. And to me, it's probably project management. You know, and that's been a long journey in higher ed. You know, I used to say that the best you could hope for in higher ed was project management light. But, you know, you can't sit and talk about float and things like that in higher ed. And I actually had a terrible experience with project management that didn't go well because it was made to be highly bureaucratic. And everything now, project management meant taking three times as long to do everything you want to do because you have to do a charter and you have to do this, you know, as opposed to picking up the phone and calling somebody. So, I think learning project management, learning some of the fundamentals of project management, because that's not strategic, but it's tactically, it's the structure on which you build the execution of a strategic plan. And having some familiarity with that, I think can be really helpful. But Chris, what do you think? So, that's actually what got me invited to plan and build our strategic planning process was expertise in project management. So, I'll just score that completely. I'm going to quote Michael Berman, former CIO of the California State University System. Former EDUCAUSE board member. Yeah, former EDUCAUSE. He told me strategic planning in its most fundamental state is an exercise in deep listening. And so, that's really stuck with me. And I've said it this way, strategic planning has to start with empathy. If you don't start with empathy, having empathy for your customers, what are their pain points, what are their experiences, what are they going through or what challenges are ahead of them that they need IT's assistance, scaling a mountain that's ahead of them. If you don't start there, if you start with IT folks in the room saying, well, what should we be doing? And we're sitting here talking about AI for AI's sake, there has to be a practical expectation of, how is this going to be useful for the campus in the future? So, I think starting there, the other thing that really comes to mind for me is being very open to hearing negative feedback and not becoming defensive in that. This is the thing that we were telling our campus going through the strategic planning process is, we want us to tell you where we're failing you. We want you to tell us where we're sucking. And so, because we want to be better. And we had to coach our IT leadership team to say like, look, don't start off by being defensive. Don't try to solve the problem when someone says it. Just listen, hear what they're having to say, and then bring those things together. So, that gets into the EQ part of it, is making sure that you're positioning yourself in a way that you're open and receptive to hearing what they're saying and not just solutioning right away. Because strategic planning, you're not trying to solve today's problems and only today's problems. You're trying to solve today's problems, tomorrow's problems, five years from now, the problems that you could experience. So, I think that's a lot of those skills that young professionals, I would advocate for them to start developing now is the ability to really listen, not be defensive, not try to, especially IT folks, not try to solve everything right away, but to take a step back, be contemplative about it and say, well, what does this mean collectively? We're hearing this from multiple places, multiple customers. Well, what does this mean systematically? What should we be doing? You know, that's a really good point at across all stages of a person's career. Certainly, as a leader, that's been a hallmark for me. And would I have even said it's an emerging superpower because I, you know, in my career, careers as a leader, when I've hired, I'm mostly thinking right now of chief diversity officers. The first conversation I had was, if you're not making me uncomfortable on a fairly regular basis, you may not be doing your job. And I've told every VP at EDUCAUSE, I want you to tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. And I think they've gotten, based on the number of things I hear that I don't want to hear, I want to say that people do feel. And, you know, again, why is that just a leader thing? I think Chris is right. Like that can be a feature of you in your first major professional, you know, tell me what I need to hear. That is strategic. I mean, yes, it's empathy and it's all the good stuff in that quadrant of thinking, but it's also pretty damn smart. Like, you know, wouldn't you want your boss to be honest and tell you when you're doing things that fall below her expectations? Wouldn't you want to probe and coach and get that out because it shows you care? And you're, you know, I don't know. I think it's a really emerging necessity for a successful young professional absolutely as a successful leader. And I'm also hearing a bit of maybe a slight call to action to the higher education community that, you know, as us in leadership positions, when we're thinking about our own strategic plans, looking for opportunities to bring folks who may not be as experienced in that process, even if it's just a small time to focus on something very focused in on their work to help them exercise those muscles so that when they do get in these seats, they're more prepared than we were the first time we had to come up with a strategic plan. Wes, you just gave me an idea that I didn't think of until I listened to you. And it's, you know, wouldn't it be a cool thing if when I was doing the EDUCAUS strategic plan and I had my key people of seven people or whoever it was that I worked with, I should have asked each one of them to work with their staff, you know, set up similar groups with their staff. And I think, honestly, most of them did it. But, you know, and at those, at that table, you know, there's not just one table, there's the big table, and then there's tables that the CIO at an organization creates. So, you know, what would it be like if the CEO who's on the strategic planning group held a meeting with their staff? And that would be a point where young professionals could shine. Lesson to learn for all of us. We'll remember that next time we do our plans, I know we're cutting up on time now, though it sounds like maybe another episode with this group is in order in the future. There's many other questions I wish we had time to ask, but I just wanted to express my gratitude, Chris, John, both of you for joining us and giving us this very insightful confirmation of, I'm over here writing my own notes, getting my own nuggets out of this to bring back to my own team as we're going through a strategic planning process ourselves. So I'm even learning my own lessons through this. But Sarah, is there anything else we wanted to get out before we take it home? I think I am okay with questions. Thank you. I just wanted to say, you know, for our audience especially, this podcast welcomes your feedback and questions. And if you have any for John or Chris or any of our future guests or ideas, we welcome you reaching out. And you can also follow us on the EDUCAUSE platform or anywhere you get your podcast. With that, we're the Rising Voices podcast. Thank you so much again. We will see y'all in the next episode.


Section 18 of the House of Arden. The House of Arden by Edith Nespit, Chapter 14. The Finding of the Treasure. To Richard Arden shouted the molywarp of Arden, as it leapt on the hour hand of the pearl and ivory clock. And then the hands went round far too fast for speed to be possible. When the clock stopped, which it did quite suddenly, Edith caught his breath and shouted to my daddy at the top of his voice, and the hands began to move again so quickly, that neither of the children had time to see where they had stopped. They just saw that they were in a room, and that the molywarp, who seemed suddenly to have grown to the size of an enormous polar bear, leaned over the edge of the clock and caught at something with a paw a foot long. And then someone called out something that they couldn't hear, and almost at once the clock stopped, and they saw something climb off the clock, and their clock was in the cave again. And there was Cousin Richard, in quite different clothes from those he had worn at King Henry VIII's Maying. They were the kind of clothes Edred had worn in bonus time, and the cave was just as it had been then, with kegs and bales, and the stream running through it. You must come with us, said the molywarp, slowly resuming its ordinary size. Don't you see? If these children let their fathers see them, they'll have to explain the whole magic. And when once magic's explained, all the magic's gone, like the scent out of scent, when you leave the cork out of the bottle. But you can see him and help if he wants help, without having to explain anything. All right, said Richard, and muttered something about the head of the house. Only, he added, I dropped my magic here. He stooped to the sand and picked up a little stick, with silver bells hanging round it, like the one that folly carries at a carnival. It's got the ardent arms and crest on it, he said, pointing, and by the light of the pearl and ivory clock, the children could see the shield and the checkerist, and the molywarp above. Now I'm ready, cousins, I take back everything I said. You see, my father's dead, and if I'd only had half your chance, that was what I thought, see? So give us your hand. The hands were given. But oh, said Elfride, this is different from all the rest. That was a game, and this is real, my sock lamp, said the molywarp with unusual kindness.  I don't believe we shall, said Elfride nodding stubbornly, and for the first time in this story she did not believe. Oh, well, said the molywarp Italy. Of course, if you don't believe you'll find him, you'll not find him. That's plain as a current loaf. But I believe we shall find him, said Edred, and Elfride's only a girl. It might be only a dream, of course, he added thoughtfully. Don't you think I don't know that? But if it's a dream, I'm going to stay in it. I'm not going back to Arden without my father. Do you understand, said the molywarp, that if I take you into any other time or place in your own century, it's the full stop. There isn't any more. It means there's no chance of our getting into the past again, to look for treasure or anything. Oh, chance, said the molywarp. I mean no magic clock will not ever be made for you no more. That's what I mean, and if you find your father, you'll not be Lord Arden any more either. I hope it will not shock you very much when I tell you, at that thought, a distinct pang shot through Edred's breast. He really felt it in his flesh and blood breast, like a sharp knife. It was dreadful of him to think of such a thing, when there was a chance of his getting his daddy in exchange for just a title. It was dreadful, but I'm a truthful writer, and I must own the truth. In one moment he felt the most dreadful things, that it was all nonsense, and perhaps daddy wasn't there, and it was no good looking for him anyway, and he wanted to go on being Lord Arden, and hadn't they better go home. The thoughts came quite without his meaning them too, and Edred pushed them from him with both hands, so to speak, hating himself because they had come to him. And he will hate himself for those thoughts, though he did not mean or wish to have them, as long as he lives, every time he remembers them. That is the worst of thoughts they live for ever. I don't want to be Lord Arden, was what he instantly said, I want my father, and what he said was true, in spite of those thoughts that he didn't mean to have, and can never forget. Shall I come along of you? said the Moldywarp, and everyone said yes, very earnestly. A friendly Moldywarp is a very useful thing to have at hand, when you are going you don't know where. Now you won't make any mistake, the Mold went on. This is the wind up, and the end all, so it is. No more chests is in Attics's, no more fine clothes is his, out of them neither, and no more white clocks. All right, said Edred impatiently, we understand, now let's go. You wait a bit, said the Moldywarp aggravatingly, you've got to settle what you'll be, and what way your father better come out, I think, through the chink of the chalk. Any way you like, said Elfrida, and Moldywarp, dear, shan't we ever see you again? Oh, I don't say that, it said, you'll see me at dinner every day. At dinner? I'm on all the spoons and forks anyhow, it said, and sniggered more aggravatingly than ever.  I think that's a first great idea, said Richard, and me too.  At the same moment the Moldywarp grew big again, to the size of a very small polar bear, while Cousin Richard suddenly assumed the proportions of a giant. Now, said the Moldywarp, and they all leapt on the white cloth, which started at once. When it stopped and they stepped off it, it was on to a carpet of thick moss, overhead through the branches of enormous trees, there shone stars of a wonderful golden brightness. The air was warm-scented as if with flowers, and warm to breathe, yet they did not feel that their fur coats were a bit too warm for the weather. The moss was so soft to their feet that Edred and Elfrida wanted to feel it with their hands as well, so down they went on all fours. Then they longed to lie down and roll on it, they longed so much that they had to do it. It was a delicious sensation, rolling in the soft moss. Cousin Richard, still very much too big, stood looking down on them and laughing. They were too busy rolling to look at each other. This, he said, is a first-class lark, now for the cleft in the chalk, shall I carry you? He added politely addressing the Moldywarp, who rather surprisingly consented. Come on, he said to the children, and as he went they followed him. There was something about the moss or about the fur coats or the fur gloves that somehow made it seem easier and more natural to follow on all fours, and really their hands were quite as useful to walk on as their feet. Never had they felt so light, so gay, never had walking been such easy work. They followed Richard through the forest till quite abruptly, like the wall at the end of a shrubbery, a great cliff grows in front of them, ending the forest. There was a cleft in it. They saw the darkness of it rising about them, as the moon came out from a cloud and shone full on the cliff's white face, and the face of the cliff and the shape of the cliff were very like that little cleft in the chalk that the Moldywarp had made when it had pulled up turf on the Sussex Downs at home. And all this time, Idrid and Elfrida had never looked at each other. There had been so many other things to look at. That's the way, said Cousin Richard, pointing up the dark cliff. Though it was so dark, Idrid and Elfrida could see quite plainly that there were no steps, only ledges that a very polite goat might have said were a foothold. You couldn't climb up there, Idrid said to the great Richard, yet somehow he never doubted that he and Elfrida could. Now, said the Moldywarp, leaping from Richard's arms to the ground, I must carry him, and it grow to polar bear size quite calmly before their very eyes. They don't see it even yet, said Richard to the Mold. See what Elfrida asked. Why? What your disguises?  Then Idrid and Elfrida did look at each other, and it was quite true. They were. I'll tell you what my plan is, Richard went on. The people of this country have never seen tame cats. They think a person who can tame animals is a magician. I found that out when I was here before. So now I've got three tame animals, all white too. That is, if you'll play, he added to the Moldywarp. You will play, won't you? Oh yes, I'll play. It said snarling a little. And you cats must only mew and par and do whatever I tell you. You'll see how I work it. Don't do anything for anyone but me and your father. Is father really here? Asked Elfrida, trembling a little. He's on the other side of the great cliff, said Richard. The cliff no man can climb, but you can. Come. He got on the Moldywarp's back and put his arms around its polar bear likeness, and it began to climb. That was a climb. Even the cats, which Idrid and Elfrida now could not help seeing that they were, found it as much as they could do to keep their footing on those little smooth shelving ledges. If it had not been that they had cat-sized and so could see in the dark, they never could have done it. And it was such a long, long climb too. It seemed as though it would last forever. I've heard of foreign climbs, said Elfrida, but I never thought they would be like this. I suppose it is foreign. South American, said Richard, you can look for it on the map when you get home, but you won't find it. Come on. And then when they had climbed to the top of the cliff, they had to go down on the other side. For the cliff rose like a wall between the forest and a wide plain, and by the time they reached that plain, the sun was looking down at them over the cliff. The plain was very large and very wonderful, and a towering wall of cliff ran all round it. The plain was all laid out in roads and avenues and fields and parks. Towns and palaces were dotted about it. A tall aqueduct on hundreds of pillars brought water from an arch in the face of the cliff to the middle of the plain. And from these canals ran out to the cliff wall that bounded the plain all round, even and straight, like the spokes of a wheel, and disappeared under low arches of stone back under the cliff. There were lakes, there were gardens, there were great stone buildings whose roofs shone like gold where the rising sun struck them. In the fields were long-horned cattle and strange high-shouldered sheep which Richard said were llamas. I know, he explained, from seeing them on the postage stamps. They advanced into the plain and sat down under a spreading tree. We must just wait till we are found, said Richard. He had assumed entire command of the expedition, and Idrid and Elfrida being cats had to submit, but they did not like it. Presently shepherds coming early to attend to their flocks found a boy in strange clothes attended by a great white bear and two white cats sitting under a tree. The shepherds did not seem afraid of the bear, only curious and interested, but when the moldy warp had stood up on its hind legs and bowed gravely, and the cats had stood up and lain down and shaken paws and turned somersaults at the word of command, one of the shepherds wrapped his red woolen cloaked around him with an air of determination and making signs that Richard was to follow, set off with all his might for the nearest town. Quite soon they found themselves in the central square of one of the most beautiful towns in the world. I wish I had time to tell you exactly what it was like, but I have not. I can only say that it was at once clean and grand, splendid and comfortable. There was not a dirty corner nor a sad face from one end of the town to the other. The houses were made of great blocks of stone, inlaid wonderfully with gold and silver, clear streams, or baby canals, run by the side of every street, and each street had a double row of trees running all along its wide length. There were open grassy spaces and flower beds set with flowers, some glowing with their natural and lovely colors, and some cunningly fashioned of gold and silver and jewels. There were fountains and miniature waterfalls, the faces of the people were dark, but kind and unwrinkled. There was a market with stalls of pleasant fruits and cakes and bright-colored soft clothes. There was a great hall in the middle of the town with a garden on its flat roof, and to this hall the shepherd led the party. The big doors of inlaid wood were set wide and a crowd all dressed in soft stuffs of beautiful colors filled the long room inside. The room was open to the sky. A wrinkled awning drawn close at one side showed that the people could have a roof when it suited them. There was a raised stone platform at one end, and on this three chairs the crowd made way for the shepherd and his following, and as they drew near to the raised platform the two white cats, who were Idrid and Ilfrida, looked up and saw in the middle, and biggest chair a splendid dark-faced man in a kind of fringe turban with two long feathers in it, and in the two chairs to right and left of him closed in beautiful embroidered stuffs with shining colors of jewels about their necks, father and uncle Jim. Not a word, said Kacindick just in time to restrain the voices of the children who were cats. Their actions he could not restrain. Everyone in the hall saw two white cats spring forward and rub themselves against the legs of the man who sat in the right-hand chair. Compelled to silence as they were by the danger of their position, Idrid and Ilfrida rubbed their white cat-bodied against their father's legs in a rapture, which I cannot describe, and purred enthusiastically. It was a wonderful relief to be able to purr, since they must not speak. The king who sat on the high seat stood up, looking down on them with wise kind eyes, and spoke seeming to ask a question. Quite as wonderfully as any trained bear, and far more gracefully, the white moldy work danced before the king of that mysterious hidden kingdom. Then Dick whistled, and Idrid and Ilfrida withdrew themselves from their passionate caresses of the only parts of their father that they could get at, and stood upon their white-hinned cat-feet. The minuet, said Idrid in a rapid whisper, Dick whistled a tune that they had never heard, but the tune was right, and now was seen the spectacle of two white cats slowly and solemnly going through the figures of that complicated dance to the music of Dick's clear whistling, turning, bowing, pacing with all the graces that aunt Idrid had taught them when they were Idrid and Ilfrida and not white cats. When the last bow and curtsy ended the dance, the king himself shouted some word that they were sure meant well done. All the people shouted the same word, and only father and uncle Jim shouted bravo. Then the king questioned Dick. No answer. He laid his finger on his lips.  Richard stopped. When your father goes out, follow him, he whispered, and so when the king rose from his throne and went out, and everyone else did the same, the white cats, discerting Dick, followed close on their father's footsteps. When the king saw this, he spoke to the men about him, who were leading Richard in another direction, and presently the cats and the bear that was the moldy work, and Richard found themselves alone with uncle Jim and the father of Ilfrida on a beautiful terrace shaded by trees, and set all along its edge with wonderful trailing flowers of red and white and purple that grew out of bases of solid silver. And now there being none of the brown people near, Richard looked full in the eyes of the father of Idrid and Ilfrida, and said in a very love voice, I'm English. I've come to rescue you. You're a bold boy, said Idrid and Ilfrida's father, but rescue's impossible. There's not much time, said Richard again. They've only let us come here just to see if you know us. I expect they're listening. You are Lord Arden now. The old Lord is dead. I can get you out if you do exactly as I say. It's worth trying, said uncle Jim. It's worth trying anyhow, whatever it is. Are you free to go where you like? Yes, said Lord Arden. Not Idrid, but Idrid's father, for Idrid was now no longer Lord Arden. You see there's no way out but the one, and that scarred by a hundred men with poisoned arrows. There is another way, said Richard. The way we came, the white bear can carry you one at a time. Shall we risk it? said Lord Arden a little doubtfully. Rather, said uncle Jim, I think of Idrid and the kids. That's what I am thinking of, said Lord Arden. While we're alive there's a chance. If we try this and fail, they'll kill us. You won't fail, said Richard. I'll help you to get home, but I would like to know how you got into this fix. It's only curiosity, but I wish you tell me. Perhaps I shan't see you again after today. We stumbled on the entrance. The only entrance to the golden plain, said Lord Arden. Prospecting for gold among these mountains. They have kept us prisoners ever since because they are determined not to let the world know of the existence of the plain. There are always rumors of it, but so far no civilized people have found it. Every king when he comes to the throne takes an oath that he will die sooner than allow the plain to be infected by the wicked cruelties of modern civilization. I think so too, said Dick. This is an older civilization than that of the Incas, said Lord Arden.  If they had trusted me, I would never have betrayed them. If I escape, I will never betray them.  The white cats noticed with wonder and respect that their father addressed Richard exactly as though he had been a grown-up. We managed to send one line to a newspaper to say that we were taken by bandits. Lord Arden went on. It was all that they would allow us to do, but except that we have not been free. We have had everything, food, clothes, kindness, justice, affection. We must escape if we can, because of my sister and the children. But it is like going out of Eden into the black country. That's so, said Uncle Jim. And if we are not to see you again, Lord Arden went on, tell me why you have come at great risk it must be to help us. I over depth, said Richard in a low voice, to all who bear the name of Arden. His voice sank so low that the two cats could only hear the words, head of the house. And now, Richard went on, you see that black chink over there. He pointed to the crevice in the cliff. Be there both of you at moon-rise, and you shall get away safely to Arden Castle. You must come with us, of course, said Lord Arden. I might be of service to you. We have quite a respectable little fortune in a bank at Lima. Not in our own names, but we can get it out if you can get us out. You brought us luck, I'm certain of it. Won't you go with us and share it? I can't, said Richard. I must go back to my own time, my own place, I mean. Now, I'll go.  The cats looked imploringly at their father, but they went and stood by Richard. I suppose we may go, he asked. Everyone is perfectly free here, said Lord Arden. The only thing you may not do is to leave the golden plain. It is very strange. There are hardly any laws. We are all free to do as we like, and no one seems to like to do anything that hurts anyone else. Only if anyone is caught trying to get into the outer world, or to let the outer world in, he is killed, without pain, and not as a vengeance, but as necessity. The white cats looked at each other rather ruefully. This was not at all the way in which they remembered their dad is talking to them. But, said Lord Arden, for the children and my sister we must risk it. I trust you completely, and we will be at the crevice when the moon rises. So Richard and his three white animals went out, down steps cut in the solid rock, and the townspeople crowded round them with fruits and maize cakes for Richard, and milk in golden platters for the cats. And later Richard made signs of being sleepy, and they let him go away among the fields, followed by the three white creatures, and at the pointed hour, they all met under the bass cliff that was the natural wall and guardian of the golden plain. And the molywork carried Uncle Jim up to the top, and then came back for Lord Arden and Richard. But before there was time to do more, a shout went up, and a thousand torches sprang to life in the city they had left, and they knew that their flight had been discovered. There's no time!  How awful! What shall we do?  You was told not to go gossiping. Here, scratch a way out with them white paws of yours. It set the example, stretching at the enormous cliff with those strong, blunt, curved front feet of it, and the cats scratched, too, with their white padded gloves that had tiger claws to them. And the rock gilded. There was a white crack wider, wider, and the swaying, swirling torches came nearer and nearer across the plain. In with you! cried the molywork. In with you! Jim, said Lord Arden, I'll not go without Jim. He's halfway there already, said the molywork, pushing Lord Arden with its great white shoulder. Come, I say, come! It pushed them all into the crack of the rock, and the cliff closed firm and fast behind them. An unanswerable no set up in the face of their pursuers. This way out, said the molywork, pointing its dusty claw to where a head light showed. Why, said Edred, it's the smuggler's cave, and there's the claw. Next moment there it wasn't, who Richard had leapt on it, and he and it had vanished together, the molywork clinging to the hour hand, at the last moment. The white cats which were Edred and Edfriedan drew back from the whirl of their hands, that was the first step towards the vanishment. They saw their father and Uncle Jim go up the steps that led to the rude wooden door, whose key was like a church key, the door that led to the opening among the first that they had never been able to find again. When the vanishing of the clock allowed them to follow, and they regained the sunny outer air, whether skylock were singing as usual, they were just in time to see two figures going towards the castle, and very near it. They turned to look at each other. Why, said Edred, you're not a cat anymore. No more are you if it comes to that, said Elfrida. Oh, Edred, they're going in at the big gate. Do you really think it's real, or have we just rented this time? It was much more dreamish than any of the other things.  I think I'll sit here till I'm quite sure whether I'm a white cat or Edred Arden. I know which I am, said Elfrida, but she too was not sorry to sit down. That's easy. You're not either of them, said Edred. When, half an hour later, they slowly went down to the castle, still doubtful whether anything magic had ever really happened, or whether all the magic things that had seemed to happen had really been only a sort of double or twin dream. They were met at the door by Aunt Edred, pale as the pearl and ivory of the white clock, and with eyes that shone like the dew drops on the wild flowers that Elfrida had given to the queen. Oh, kiddies, she cried. Oh, dear, darling kiddies. And she went down on her knees so that she should be near their own height, and could embrace them on more equal terms. Something loveless happened, she said. Something so beautiful that you won't be able to believe it. They kissed her heartily, partly out of affection, and partly to conceal their want of surprise. Darlings, it's the loveliest thing that could possibly happen. What do you think? Dad is come home, said Elfrida, feeling dreadfully deceitful. Yes, said Aunt Edred, how clever of you, my pet and uncle Jim. They've been kept prisoners in South America, and an English boy with a performing beard helped them to escape. No mention of cats. The children felt hurt. And they had the most dreadful time, months and months and months, coming across the interior. No water and Indians and all sorts of adventures. And Daddy had fever and would insist that the bear was the moldy warp, our crest, you know, come to life and talking just like you or me, and that there were white cats that had your voices and called him Daddy. But he's all right now, only very weak. That's why I'm telling you all this. You must be very quiet and gentle. Oh, my tears. It's too good to be true. Too good to be true. Now, was it the father of Edred and Elfrida, who had brain fever and fancied things? Or did they blameless of fever and not too guilty of brains? Imagine it all. Uncle Jim can tell you exactly how it all happened. There is no magic in his story. Father, I mean Lord Arden does not talk of what he dreamt when he had brain fever. And Edred and Elfrida do not talk of what happened when they hadn't. At least they do, but only to me. It is all very wonderful and mysterious as all life is apt to be if you go a little below the crust and are not content to just read newspapers and go by the tube railway and by your clothes ready made and think nothing can be true, unless it is uninteresting. I found the most wonderful photographs of pictures of Arden Castle, said Aunt Edred later on. We can restore the castle perfectly from them. I do wish I knew where the original pictures were. I'm afraid we can't restore the castle, said Lord Arden Darthing. Our little fortunes enough to keep us going quite comfortably, but it won't rebuild Norman Masonry. I do wish we could have found the buried treasure, said Edred. We've got treasure enough, said Aunt Edred, looking at Uncle Jim. As for what Elfrida thinks, well, I wish you could have seen her face when she went into the parlor that evening, after Aunt Edred had knelt down to meet them on equal terms, and tell them of the treasure of love and joy that had come home to Arden. There was Lord Arden looking exactly like the Lord Arden she had known in the gunpowder plot days, and also exactly like the daddy she had known all her life, sitting at ease in the big chair, just underneath the secret panel behind which Sir Edward Talbot had hidden, when he was pretending to be the Chevalier Saint George. His dear face was just the same, and the smile on it was her own smile, the merry, tender, twinkling smile that was for her and for no one else in the world. It was just a moment that she stood at the door, but it was one of these moments that are as short as a watchtick and as long as a year. She stood there and asked herself, have I dreamt it all? Isn't there really any Moldeworp or any treasure? And then a great wave of love and longing caught at her, and she knew that Moldeworp or no Moldeworp, the treasure was hers, and in one flash she was across the room and in her father's arms, sobbing and laughing and saying again and again, oh my daddy, oh my daddy, my daddy. The end. End of section 18, read by Lars Rolander, and end of the House of Arden by Edith Nespit. Thank you for listening.