This is such a great subject and I just want to give a plug that this whole session is kind of a preview of what we're going to be doing in Slate starting in a few weeks, so there is going to be a lot more of this discussion going online starting later this month. So if you think that dozens of great, great grandparents and great, great grandparents creates an etiquette problem, think about the social and economic problems that could come from all of those people having nothing to do all day. And our next panel, can we ever retire, would we ever want to, is going to consider workplace and financial implications of increased longevity, especially for people who are planning and thinking about retirement. And to moderate the panel, I want to introduce to you Matt Iglesias, where you met, there's Matt. Matt is Slate's business and economics correspondent. Before he came to Slate, he worked for Think Progress, the Atlantic, TPM Media, and the American Progress. His first book was called Heads in the Sand, published in 2008, and his more recent book published last year was The Rent is Too Damn High. The brief bio would be that if you want to sound smart about what's going on in Washington about business and economics, you read Matt, and it works particularly well because he writes many, many times a day very concisely, always adding some fresh point that you haven't thought of. In his money box column on Slate, and his column, I should add, is a finalist for the 2013 Online Journalism Award. Welcome Matt. Do I have my panelists here somewhere? Otherwise, it's going to be difficult. But we should be joined by Mark Wachowski, who is the director of retirement research with Towers Watson, as well as a former vice chairman of the Federal Commission on Long Term Care, Lisa Mensa, who I apologize if I'm mispronouncing everyone's names. This is a whole panel of people, myself included, with slightly odd names. Executive director of the Aspen Institute's Initiative on Financial Security, and Jamie Calamaridis, as senior vice president with Prudential Retirement. Of course, our sponsors here. Anyway, to sort of kick things off, I think it's worth sort of saying I think the idea of living longer, of greater longevity, it's very optimistic. I think most people don't really want to die. But it places sort of significant financial challenges on people to know how to save and how to save for a longer retirement and what that ought to look like. Particularly if we're thinking of a world in which people may need to work longer because savings won't necessarily extend that far, but also may need to financially plan for certain kinds of transitions in life.  Are you just going to draw their savings down or supplement it with work? And how should people be thinking about this? Well, I think that the definition of retirement itself is actually changing. I think that oftentimes we think about retirement as that 1950s definition of withdrawing from working environment. And it turns out retire comes from the French word, today, right, did you draw. And redraw is probably a better definition of how millennials and many people are thinking about retirement. When we ask people what they're going to do in retirement, the number one thing they say is work, which sounds counterintuitive, but they want to do what they love. And in fact, I think that most individuals who are young and not yet 10 years within the retirement age that we normally think of, 65, 67, they can't envision retirement and they actually procrastinate and they have a really hard time thinking about saving for retirement. People who are closer to retirement, 10 years or so, have some sort of life event that makes them start thinking about retirement. And most people start building a retirement paycheck in their mind from all their sources of wealth. Hopefully they've been auto enrolled and they've started saving in their 401k or their workplace. But we're finding that today's workers are facing a challenge about 10 to 15 years in advance of retirement. Right, absolutely. And Lisa, you know, this is very much, I mean, there's a lot of inequality in the United States economically and this sort of continues into the retirement space and our more working class families and people who may have, you know, jobs that are more physically arduous. You know, how do they need to think about this and how do policymakers need to think about those sort of class bound challenges? Yeah, thanks, Matt. I think that Jamie's right, we're re-envisioning retirement but everybody's going into this not the same way and you're right to think about this as well. If you've been hoisting up people or working on your feet or greeting at Walmart, one, you probably, often you weren't in the system. You weren't building the retirement all along. So much of America and it's a stubborn statistic. It's a stubborn statistic of about half of the workforce that hasn't been amassing private savings. And for, but for all Americans, the social security system is the financing tool that really sustains the base line of there. So I think many workers, no matter class, are still counting on both a robust social security system and they want more. I think that's where the real policy debate is. If you remember anything, it's really that we're heading into this question, how would we ever retire? How would we ever pay for it? With a two stroke system, with our social security system and then everybody, even that greeter at Walmart, wants more than that, wants a private saving system and that's where the challenge has been. How do we build that on top of the social security system? I remember when I was first taught public policy in college, they spoke of a three legged retirement stool of personal savings of social security and of pension plans through the workplace, which you've obviously gone into a substantial decline, but do you think that still has any kind of role to play? Well, I think there's certainly a stellar role for the employer because the employer has an interest in providing a retirement plan because at least in certain industries and in certain organizations, they do want to see a natural turnover and younger workers coming in and an ability of older workers to leave with dignity. And that's particularly in those type of industries that we're talking about where there's a physical element to leaving. However, with that being said, there's a range of experience and there are other organizations, employers that just, they don't really, it's not that important. It's not important to the organization, it's important to the employees. And so some organizations respond to the employee's demands, but there are other ways for employees to get those what they need and that could be through private savings or working. So there are other ways of dealing with those issues. So what would we need to do to sort of get more participation from people? I think it's about half of people are in workplaces where they're eligible and about half aren't, right? So that's a really important public policy issue of how do you get people to have more access to savings? We know that the best determinant of whether or not someone's prepared is whether or not they're saving at the workplace. And for organizations, companies that have workplace-based savings tools, participation tends to be fairly high because of new public policy solutions in the odds that allow companies to automatically enroll their employees. So where is coverage not available? It's not available at the smallest employers, those with less than 100 employees. And who do they hire? They hire mostly women, mostly people of color, and mostly low to moderate income individuals compared to mid-size and large-size organizations. Only 25% in some measures of small businesses offer workplace-based retirement plans. And we see three barriers for why they don't. They are perceived to cost too much relative to the retail alternatives. They are administratively difficult to administer because of the rules that we've put around them. And small business owners are individually fiduciaries. That is, they are personally liable for the workplace-based retirement plan. The good news is that there are a number of initiatives and ideas about how do you allow small businesses to pool their purchasing power, or how do you simplify the fiduciary responsibility? Did you want to jump in? I want to pick up, I think Jamie's really noted what is a big policy challenge. And many in this room know it, but is how do we build a system where everybody can be in? And I love the word simplicity and automatic. And those, there's a great book out called Scare City and it talks about our bandwidth and why everybody's challenged. This isn't, you know, you talk to anybody on the street and they'd love to try to build their nest egg. But somehow the reason workplace savings works is it's fishing where the fish are. It's where the money is. And we make our money at work. And somehow we need systems that are more simple and automatic. And those are the big trends of the policy movement. Can we make it more automatic? And especially for people who are working in very small businesses or self-employed, ask any cab driver or anybody who cuts your hair, what's their plan? And we know that if it's not structured and made simple, and so, you know, the president proposed and making it all automatic, making it optional for the individual, they can opt out, but making it payroll time. Just so when you get your paycheck, you're saving a little in a private account. And I think that the trend, it's hard to back away from things that are automatic and automatic to your favor. If somebody could do that with my diet, I would really love it, but they can do it with my money. Yeah, I've had a similar, similar experience trying to resist the bagels and it's... I wanna add another viewpoint, and that is although the 50% number in terms of any one point in time, people who are covered by retirement plans is a steady number. And it's certainly been true over many, many years. And so it's a little more complex than that when you look at the number of when people retire, and in particular, when you look at it as a household, a couple, how many do have retirement assets, formal retirement assets? It's a higher number than that. It's more like 70% because people do go from job to job. Sometimes they're covered, sometimes they're not, but they still keep those assets with them until they retire. And similarly, when you consider, relating to the prior panel, many people are married, and they stay married through retirement. It's both... And the law is sort of, it recognizes that it's the assets of a couple, not just the individual worker. Right, right, right. So that's a little bit more of an optimistic take up, but at the same time, I mean, it's certainly been my experience. I've been in the workforce 10 years and I've had, I think, four different jobs and I've always been fortunate to have sort of some retirement provision at three of those employers. And yet, even just the logistics of keeping track of that can sort of get very complicated. I mean, is there things we can do to sort of make the policy account for the fact that the savings comes through the workplace, but also people are gonna have many different workplaces over the course of their lives and integrate. I'm familiar with private organizations that have been popping up that deal with exactly that issue. So I think even within the rubric of current law, there is a possibility of aggregating those savings. And I'm sure organizations like Prudential are interested in that type of thing. Indeed, there are methods to make sure that your savings are aggregated over time, but there is continued work to be done on a public policy basis for any sort of coverage solution to make sure that as people switch jobs, they don't cash their money out. There is a behavioral issue that we, as human beings have, and that is a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the field. So if you see a large savings amount and you switch jobs and someone says, would you rather have the check sent to you or would you rather have the check sent to your savings account? The vast majority people take the check today and unfortunately are sacrificing their future financial security. Well, and so along those lines, I mean, this is one of the reasons why we have social security as a kind of a retirement floor for people that's gonna guarantee it to be there. But I wonder, Lisa, how does that play into sort of increasing longevity? You often hear about the sort of extra fiscal burden that's involved, but also the way social security works, it becomes sort of much less favorable as you live longer and longer years, as I understand. Or priceless because it's there and it's inflation protected and you get it until you die. This is the leg of the stool. What was lost in a private pension for those that had them and there were women and minorities and many who never had them. But that's the piece that is still there. So in one way, it's the most powerful annuity America has, however, it could be improved and polling shows that most Americans of both parties would favor improvements, particularly at older ages. So we are more sympathetic to our 80 year olds getting a bump up when they can't work anymore or aren't drawing a big salary and when many private savings. And I think the real truth about the social security system is how beloved it is. And not just from the people who are receiving it from the kids that don't have to pay for their parents or their grandparents too. So that and that really is clear. Go ahead. Yeah, I was gonna say with our social security it certainly provides a very important base and it does establish the concept of retirement very clearly. And I think that despite any increases in longevity, we will still want to retire even in the traditional sense, eventually on the workforce when we're in our 70s and 80s. And then there also is obviously some people have to retire because of health. But social security provides that base, but it is a very, I'll use the word old fashioned program. It really reflects a view of the 30s, 40s and 50s both in terms of marriage, which we talked about before in terms of when you retire. So the ages are written in law from 62 to 70. And that was true in the 60s when that was designed. So I think we really do need to update social security to reflect what already has happened to say nothing of what we can expect to happen in the future. We also need to educate individuals as they're approaching retirement about what their choices are today. Too many people are doing that bird in hand and taking money at age 62 as opposed to giving themselves a raise using some of their savings today and postponing social security until 67 or 70, which gives them a greater annuity for their lifetime. That's a hard financial burden to get over mentally to say I'm not gonna take social security right away, but one that might optimize their financial security for their lifetime. Well, and I think that speaks to sort of one of the larger points around private retirement, which is that most people seem to not be just very good at sort of doing some of this math in their heads. And in addition to people, people maybe don't save enough, but they don't always save in the right kind of ways. They panic if things are down or they hop onto bandwagons when it's too late. And what can really we do in the media and the private sector to help people sort of understand the savings landscape better? Well, I was gonna say on the accumulation side and on the savings side, both because of private sector initiatives, but also because of policy, there is the innovation of so-called target date funds, balance funds, which basically make the investing a little more automatic. And they do address the issue of jumping in, I don't know, off the bandwagon. So people can take a little less attention a little less anxiety about their investing. I think what is needed and really has not really been developed yet is something similar when people retire, particularly when they no longer have a defined benefit plan. And I think it's actually sorely needed. Both public policy needs to encourage it and the private sector needs to step up to it. Mark, I think that's exactly right. It's how do you have defaults so that people avoid making mistakes? What we have seen is when those lifetime income solutions are available, and it doesn't matter what sort of lifetime solution are available, individuals have better behavior during the accumulation. They save 38% more when there is lifetime income available. They don't buy high and sell low in volatile markets. The metaphor is you approach the largest bridge you've ever seen in your life. Your loved ones are in the car next to you. As you approach the bridge, you see that there's a commotion and you realize there are not guardrails on the bridge. Do you drive over? Do you drive over slowly? Do you speed up and drive over quickly? Now I'll ask another question. Have you ever hit a guardrail going over a bridge? What's the purpose of the guardrails? The purpose is to make you feel comfortable and behave appropriately. The interesting thing is we've solved from an industry and a public policy point of view the accumulation and target date funds. There is not widespread use of lifetime income products within savings plans. We would assert that that presence is the guardrails on the bridge. It allows people to feel more comfortable. There's nothing that stops people from putting it in right now. There's a lot of behavioral hurdles to put them in. And a lot more innovation that can continue to happen in this area. I wanna build on Jamie's bridge metaphor because to me it seems like we've still got a lot of people that didn't get a car. Yes. All right. I think that what you in the press can help us do is we're just very bad at getting a car. It's really hard when you are working three jobs to think about the car. So we need more help in getting over this big coverage hurdle. It just should be more automatic. That is the beauty of social security. Everybody's in. So helping us with automatic and most of us just can't do it. We just can't follow the stocks and the bonds and the doubts and even when we do it, we're bad at it. So why not admit defeat on this level and at least be part of an automated baseline? The biggest innovation would be starting the whole savings thing at birth and that's been, that was tried in the UK and the amazing people came into this system. People have aspiration. I always say there's no shame or blame when you're just born. So we haven't done anything wrong yet or not overweight. We haven't messed up our budget or just a baby.  You know, we're great consumers, probably best in the world. And we've got to consume this savings a little more normally in our DNA and that's been a big miss. I think the other thing is just more is better in this case. More savings is better. So if we had a few things- Busses and trains instead of cars. Well, people rarely find themselves regretting having saved too much. You know, you can always do something fun with your grandkids later if you end up in that situation. I think it's about time to pivot to questions if people have any in the audience. Yes, you? I know that a lot of my friends and a lot of people that I've worked with are concerned not just about saving for retirement but also dealing with college loans and graduate school loans that they've taken out. And I think that the idea of trying to make that balance between how to have a fulfilling work life, save for retirement, do all of the right things but you have what is now becoming sort of astronomical debt. How do you balance that? And how do we as a society sort of respond to that? I mean, at some point, obviously, I think there've been lots of thoughts put out there about how, well, of course, the cost of college, the cost of advanced degrees will have to go down and that will happen. But there is one, two, possibly three generations that will still be experiencing that and that will, at me as a society, will have to address that. And I was wondering if you could speak to that. Yeah, life cycle. You bet. I'm financial security, so I love your question because I think it is all of a piece. And the problem with retirement is we only think of it once we have our first bulging disc after 40 and then we miss the first phase. So I think your question is really deep because it shows where the key assets that we need are challenged at every spot in the life and what we do as policy in this town is we reward and make prosper the things that we value the most. So we have choices about how we bring down and subsidize the cost of college and how we help people prepare and save for that but also how we finance it. I would also think this is the way, if we know we need 10% contributions to our retirement funds every year, that's the real secret. We should be putting away 10%, like biblical 10%, right? So how do we get there? One way we could get there is matching people's savings.  Some of this should be automatic and not even, you just earned, you socked away $1,000 in a potential account and we rewarded you 500. So some of the lift would be taken from you. So I think three key assets, homes, retirement and college, I think we could do a lot more to protect the cost to subsidize and accelerate how you got all those assets because they're of a piece. So I love your question. Yeah, I agree that it's a very important question and both current law sort of, I think helps you address it in one way and another way it makes it difficult because if you're, again, if you're thinking of it from the point of view of a very long life cycle. So you may need to spend a lot of money in the early years for college and graduate school and therefore you have less money available for retirement but in law there is something called a catch up contribution that you can make into your retirement plan after age 50. So that's meant to solve that problem. But so that's a good thing in current law. The problem in current law is that there's also something called minimum distribution requirements which started at age 70. And those age 70 was picked in 1960. That was really old, 70 is not old now. So law has a lot of adjustments to make in that regard. And I think it would help, again, I think when you go to college or go to graduate school you're not thinking of next year, you're thinking of your whole career. So I think it's best to think of these things in terms of a life cycle. Yeah, go over here. Hello, thank you so much for having this amazing panel and for each of you being here. I'm one of the thousands of feds that are furloughed. I have, we are not allowed to work. I was told that we will not receive any salary for perhaps three to four weeks or more. And many of us are looking to our retirement savings for hardship loans, which is the absolute worst thing to do. But we have no other options. I've wanted to ask, what do we do? And what can we do to turn Congress upside down so we can get back to work? We have work to do. So I just had to say that and thank you so much for your reply. Thanks for your question. It's Lisa identified three areas for big savings, house, education, retirement. When you sit down with financial planners they always start with a fourth as well and that is in a set of emergency savings. Financial planners will tell you to save three to six months of salary for financial emergencies. They were not envisioning a situation at the federal level when they were suggesting that and that's not our forecast but that's what financial planners suggest. The challenge with that is that those numbers seem daunting when you add up all those things. So the implication is start today and save what you can and adjust your budget and your lifestyle and then pay yourself first when you get a raise. Don't take it out of your paycheck but instead pay it to your savings vehicle and keep accumulating it over time. That's what behavioral finance experts suggest is the best way to anticipate that over time. Of course now that we're in this situation I think everyone should ask Ted Cruz if he wants to give you a loan for a couple of weeks until he can sort of get this sorted out. May we hear from you? Thank you. Patrick Tucker with the Futurist Magazine. I just wanted to briefly couch my question in terms of one of the comments that Jamie said which is that young people don't think about retirement. I recently sat down with a group of about five or six people under 30 and I asked them actually if there was a financial planning book that they particularly liked and they all said the four hour work week by Timothy Ferris. I know we laugh at it but it's actually sort of a manual for early retirement by creating a passive income vehicle online and it's a very optimistic manual but I think that it's sort of fascinating and so that group was not necessarily representative of a whole but I think that it does speak to a growing mistrust among young people of both the private sector and the government to provide financial safety later in life and so this question is really for the whole panel but especially for Matt, do you perceive a growing sense among young people that entrepreneurship is supposed to take the place of like conventional family planning or financial planning, not family planning, financial planning among young people? Well you know I think that with the popularity of that kind of book or occasional features on people who manage to retire very, very young tends to show is that there's a certain benefit to finding ways to sort of reframe the idea of savings as a little bit more positive that it often sounds like a bummer, like someone's saying, don't get that TV now, just put it in your 401k and that's really boring and if we can make ways, I mean I know this is obviously, it's like credentials trying to do with its marketing but it's to make people be more excited about the idea of saving for retirement and look forward to and think of it as a benefit for yourself but this does go to at least this point about what realistically do people have access to in their lives, that the most acute problems are with people who are facing real difficulties in savings and I don't think, I mean it would be great if everyone could start successful companies but that's like three barriers higher. I think with the question and not your comments our response to is the need to reframe the question about retirement, to make it positive, to engage everybody in thinking about positive aspects of deferring pleasure today, having spending money for pleasure tomorrow and it's difficult, it's difficult. 80% of individuals aren't involved in their financial planning, it doesn't matter what age perspective, what age and what income level. We find that almost half of individuals don't look at their statements on a regular basis either out of fear or just not of out of interest and the issue is how do you get those individuals engaged and thinking about positive actions today and avoiding downside mistakes today as well? I think Matt that we will have a transformed relationship with money as we look forward and I think your generation is gonna help us. There will be apps or whatever the next thing is for helping us manage on a day to day. I spend most of my life thinking about the future assets. I think there will be ways to connect it in the way we spend, you know, that when B of A came up with there, keep the change, it was this radical idea, hey, I could be at Starbucks and contributing to my savings account too because I'm rounding up and I think that's the whole transformation is coming and I think, but it's gotta be simple, automatic and sort of put us on the right path automatically. Absolutely, I do go over there. Do you think a lot of us have enjoyed like Mint.com and other things that simply let you track what's even happening in your life? Hi, I'm Jennifer Huang of the Kaiser Family Foundation. I work for the program in Medicare policy so I actually think about our time in quite a bit. We put out a report recently on the racial and ethnic disparities in income and savings and home equity of the Medicare population and in 2012, nearly all Medicare beneficiaries had some sort of savings which includes retirement accounts like IRAs and 401ks and other financial assets including savings accounts, bonds, and stocks. But there's a huge disparity between white beneficiaries about half of whom have over $86,000 in savings compared to black and Hispanic which is something more like half of beneficiaries have less than $12,000 in savings. And this disparity persists across a bunch of different demographic factors including education and it's also projected to persist well into 2030. And I was just wondering, do you see this disparity widening? Do you see the gap closing as life expectancy continues to increase and what can we do on a policy front to target or specifically reduce that disparity? I mean, one issue of course is that the disparity, I think, and obviously I'm not familiar with the specifics that you're citing, but in general, it's related to lifetime income, lifetime earnings and that so there is that disparity but it sort of just continues on into the retirement years. So I think it relates in term to a discussion about some people are gonna rely much more on lower income folks on social security whereas people in social security is not intended as the sole or even main retirement vehicle for people in middle and upper income. So I think there, and when you add in the house and other sources of value, it's a rather complex story. And I think we need to be very flexible to sort of respond to those. I wanna thank you for raising the numbers and even bringing your notepad with them because the difference between 86K and 12K of financial assets is extreme, but it's also reachable. And I'm the rat of, I spoke to the asset funders yesterday who are very concerned with the racial wealth gap. But when you think about it as a financial matter, the difference between getting someone from 12K to 86K, if you had time and you had a little different way of financing house and financing the financial assets, we've left too many people without the car in the first place. I know Jamie can get many accounts if he has 20 years of people putting in even 5K, 3K at the beginning of work with matches, he can close a lot of that gap. And I think that's the, first of all, we have to be appalled at the distinction, particularly in this era, we should be appalled. And but the real research on what's driving those big asset limits goes even beyond lifetime income. It says people didn't invest in high-yielding assets or they were overweighted in house and not ever being in the stock market ever. So I do think we're, we actually know how to deal with 60 and $70,000 gaps over a work life. And there are small changes. The things we're talking about are small changes in public policy that make big differences. There are inequities that we need to fix as well to tackle this problem. If we start having coverage among low to moderate income, retirement savings counts against food stamps. It counts as an asset that disqualifies you for food stamps. We can fix these sort of public policy inequities along the way. Yes. Yes. You can go. So think about scenario C. What level of retirement savings do we need to engage in? What do payroll taxes need to be if retirement is a hundred years long? And I mean, there's this typical response that, well, that's really easy. We just keep on rationing up the age of retirement, but there's this really quick retort, which is that life expectancy at 70 is really variable as a previous question asked or pointed out, that that tends to track very heavily with income or difficulty of the sort of work that you're engaged in. And it's really easy to say, well, let's just ratchet up the age of retirement when we have sedentary mental jobs. But that's really unfair to people who have really physically strenuous jobs who have really different health expectancies. How do we cope with that? Yeah, can we differentiate the retirement system better according to people's actual circumstances? Well, it's hard to answer your question in specific terms, but in general terms, if we have scenario C in general, I think it's reasonable to expect that people would, on average, and for most people, would work longer. It just seems natural to think in those terms. With regard to your specific question, I think it's both a responsibility of these three levels. It's the responsibility of the individuals, the responsibility of the employer, and it's the responsibility of society to deal with those, I won't even call them outliers, but that complexity of people who may need retraining. And they may need, or they may need an employer plan that recognizes that they're gonna retire earlier. So I think that's what we need to respond, both to the general trends that affect the vast majority of people, as well as the specifics of those situations. And I would build, I think you've really identified where responsibility is shared, but the social insurance systems, America didn't choose Europe's path. Our social security, and it is old, it's 75, but we chose a system that was intentionally not a complete picture. And if we live long and prosper, and we've got a long, much longer tail, our social insurance system, it'll be a piece of it. There'll be a society, a societal role, because we're not all the same, and some piece of social insurance does something that private insurance doesn't. We've got to pick up more of us, and all of us being in. So I would predict, even if we're, instead of an aerial sea, and we're all living long and prosper, I would predict that we're still gonna need a pretty strong core of social security and Medicare system, that's our social insurance piece. And then John marks other pieces of what we do privately and what we do at the workplace. All right, I've been signaled to, I'll share everyone off the stage, so. Thank you very much for this discussion. All right, some excellent issues, and back over to you.


Okay, so recording is on welcome everyone it's Docs office hours it's the 30th of August. Sorry, it's the first of September in India standard time. And 30. Is that right or is it 31st of August. No, it's 31st of August 31st of August India standard time and and be good to each other we abide by the Jenkins code of conduct. So the topics that were on my list were review the 2.309 automated changelog and propose improvements to the 2.308 changelog. So this is this is our first experience with the changelog automation. What we have is we've got and I'm going to share my screen and let's look at what we've got there. So what we have is a this is GH PR list so the poll request is 4525 and if we look at it what it comes in automation wise. What is it looks like this, and there are comments there, but there are things inside this poll request or inside this is what it looks like when rendered on screen so no proposed changelog for 5682. And I think that means we really need one or we need to list it as skip changelog. It doesn't show skip changelog. And Oleg says the changelog looks good. Oh, but this is not. Okay, so what we need to do is we need to adjust this one to because the changelog automation didn't get it correct. We need to fix that so that this will have a proposed changelog. Now one way to do it is probably to insert the text. Now, I don't know which to do. Alright, I, I mean we could insert the text into this. That is the boilerplate for a changelog. Let's see, let's see if we can grab one that has. Yeah, so propose changelog entries. Let's grab this so comment comment propose changelog entries proposed upgrade guidelines. So back to this one we could do this. Now we need to go find a similar poll request. Okay bump JNA from. Okay, so 5682. So what we're looking for is the text of 5682. Okay, so here's whoops. That didn't help me. There, here's an example. Okay, so how do we get the automated changelog to have that content. Any bright ideas. We could edit the YAML file directly, but then the next run of the automation will probably wipe out our, our reference. I guess that's still likely the most effective way to do it. Till I get a chance to talk with. Okay, so it would be here. And this would then be 5682. So. Sorry, go ahead what was that. So the automatic changelog does not add this references type right by itself doesn't seem to at least as far as I could tell. And we want to add that. Well, so that's what I was thinking. And now the question is, should this thing. It was categorized as developer, and that makes sense to me it should be a developer changelog. So that's what I was thinking we should do say all right it's an RFP developer so we need to put it at the bottom. So that is PR 5381 is that the correct pull request. No it's 5682. There we go right here it's references a link to the changelog and let's test that that the link actually works. It did. Okay, good. So the other alternative would be, I mean I would hope that someday the automation would be able to generate those kind of reference links for us, but it certainly didn't this time. Also side issue should we spell out Java native access or is that really that commonly understood. Where would you like it spelled out here in the title. Or, yeah, or either the title or the description, you know you could say bump Java native access parents JNA. Like maybe it's maybe it's just my ignorance but yeah I like that. The challenge is it's a library and libraries that that's a that's a generated string from dependabot but I think you're right it's certainly clear to the user if it's, if we do that instead of just using the in the bat short name. Got, I did search the bank and diode doc and didn't find any real information about it so. Okay, you know, there were a couple of other like changelog things in there or something but there wasn't anything explained what it is or why I care. Right, right. And yeah, I'll shut up now. No, it's good, good feedback. Very good. Okay, so the next, go ahead. Yes, so I was just wondering, maybe while writing the automation script, we can do things like whenever we come across a developer category entry, we would want to insert a references tag. And in that we can directly put the value of pool as the pool that we have received previously and URL will be. Oh, URL cannot be automated easily. I don't know that's I think it's a good question because it might. Let's look at the source code for this because that URL may be in here somewhere, and we just have to look for it. Okay. So the word release occurs twice. No, I don't. Okay, so I don't see a reference to the tag but let's look for other. Okay, so there's a poll request bug fixes commits. See, I don't see a reference to the release. Maybe I'm just not looking well enough. Okay, in the changelog. Yeah, see this. Oh, there it is. Okay. So here is the link to the changelog. But what it lacks is it lacks so so there is a link here. So considerably the tool could could extract that hyperlink that is in here. Let's let's look at it now. So this hyperlink right here could be extracted. Now why don't we link to that in. Oh, we do. That is exactly what we're using. So we just need to append the release the latest release number at the end right. Yeah, yeah. So if this had been release something. Yeah, where was it if this had been released dash 590. It would have been directly usable. And it's it's still usable even even without that release dash 590 90 so when I expand this if I open that in a new tab. It takes me to the exact same right place so so conceivably this could be used. And then this link would just have would not have the release 590 and it would just be missing that part. Okay, so there's there's I think there's good potential there. Now, now there's another one here this one. So the second one on the list is this RFE internal. And it appears that it's inserted the word internal twice. Let's see if I can see it so see this internal internal. I assume that's the generator, putting the word internal and then the original description had the word internal as well. So here, one thing we could do is change this text. Now, on the next run that will remove one internal. Okay, what is PR. Okay, I'm missing something here. One thing. Oh, go ahead. What's that. So I asked about PR title to Tim job. So he suggested that he says that it's, it doesn't do anything. It just came from the Jason, because I was also curious like where are we using it so we're not using it anywhere. Okay, so it is not being used. So the change there won't help changing it to not use the back quoted markup won't help. Okay, good. All right. And this one is used and it's using the correct HTML markup. Okay, so aunt class loader. Yeah. Okay, good. So we've got an entry for 5682. And we've got an entry for 5687. Now these two are both developer and internal so they actually belong at the bottom. And now I'm going to reload that whoops wrong. Reload that page. Nope, not that one. Reload this page. It says add a boarded threshold fixed missing settings here's bump Java native access with its hyperlink. Yes, good. Okay. And this one is poll 5687. And it works. Okay, good. So now the next challenge is this one right here with the embedded picture. And the regression in to do. I think I don't know what to do with this one because the automation has placed the before and after, I think what we ought to do here is just move the before and after picture. Whoops, move it outside of the proposed change log entry. For example, if it were placed here, the next time it runs. There's the before there's the after and here is the so like that. Okay before after and then now the proposed change log entries the next time that job runs. It would get it correct and in the interim we fix it by removing that image stuff and the regression in to do is where is it's fixed it's logged as a regression fix but the version where it regressed is not. Okay, so where. Where was the bug report, because this doesn't tell us which version had it so do we just make a wild guess. It was. Oh no no we don't have to make a guess at all it was a change previously that modified icons right. And so we should be able to find it here. Nope. Okay. How about something from the same author, Jan Farachuk. So there's use the SVG version of the text icon so probably 2.307. Okay, so let's guess 2.307 seem reasonable. So, alright back to look at what our draft looks like. And it says add the aborted threshold to reverse build trigger fix the missing settings cog icon and plug in manager fix incorrect folder icon, showing in projects regression in now how do we usually lay out the regression in. Yeah, it's parenthesized right before the issue that's being right okay good so that's consistent. And here bump J and a 58 to 59. And then internal class loader and it's subclass register themselves as parallel capable what do you think is that acceptable. Yes, we have internal at the end and links are working and the co the highlighted ones are there and full stops are so you don't have full stop the first one. Oh, we're missing full stops on the ends of lines. Thank you. Good reminder. Very good and our, our contributors in, in China very commonly alert when there is a full stop missing online. Thank you. Good catch. Okay, so I think we got full stops everywhere. Let's check it one more time. Full stop there full stop there. Yep. Okay. Anything else you see that's a mistake. The fix missing setting icon is it's a bug right. It, it is that's correct. And the first ad about it is, is just an RFE. Also correct right. So, I might, I might be confused right now but shouldn't bug be forced or it's only when we talk about major bugs and no it's it's a good point because so in 308 RFE's proceed bugs. In 307 bugs proceed RFE's and 307 was the one we edited by hand right and it looks like all the previous ones we've had generally had bug precede. Well, no, yeah, this one is major so it here, here's an RFE. No, and no let's find a different. Here's a bug. No, that's a major. Come on I need something that's got same level. Here we go a bug, not major preceding an RFE so I think you're right we should move the bug first, like this. Okay, so we've got the bug fix missing icons. And then we've got the RFE. And then we've got a developer and issue and then an internal. Okay, back to looking at how it looks. Okay, fix missing settings. The bug, then the RFE, then JNA and the that's a developer one and then the internal one. Okay, so far. So which one is developer one. This one right here. Okay, so do we not need the developer semicolon. Oh, we do. And we've used developer before so yes it should say developer shouldn't it. Absolutely. Yes. Very good. Okay. Let's try that again. Thank you. Nice catch. Okay, whoops, except didn't. Okay, now we've got the keyword developer. And the keyword internal. Now one of the things I wanted to check was is that all of the pull requests that have been merged for this release. So, Oh, except that have those that have skip changelog so updated at since that's a skip changelog. Bump mosquito core. This one is, is it closed. Oh, it's closed. You're right. So this one was rejected. Okay. Whereas fix missing icons we've seen this was also closed. This was approved and we've seen it. Bump X stream was closed. J&A is in the list. Spotless is skip changelog and palm dot XML is closed. This is skip commons IO was already eight days ago so all of the pull requests that I see here are represented in this list in the list here. Okay, and now we've got three that are listed as comments update at since spotless plug in and automate the changelog. So I think we're ready to submit it. What do you think. I think so too. Yes, it looks good for this Java native access of 5.9.0 changelog. Do we need to capitalize and and a Where here above this above this. Oh, I see what you're saying. Good point. This one. Yes, this one like that. Exactly. And that's, that's different than we've done it in the past but I think it's consistent. Oh, with Meg's observation that Java native J&A is It is tough because usually you'd make the acronym all uppercase but if it's actually a library name. Right in this case because it's a library name I hesitate to make it uppercase. And I'm even actually called J&R is it got a suffix of some sort. No, no, it really is just called Java native access. It's certainly delivered as a jar, but the library name is Java native access so if we look. If we look at the other occurrences in this file of J&A You'll see sometimes it was rendered as all caps. Actually, it looks like it was consistent. Oh right and we expanded it. But it was done here as all caps in the title but then here always rendered in a path name. Right. Exactly. There's one where just Java is uppercase and still native access. So, so do we want to just write J&A 5.9.0 change low or something else. Yeah, I think so dear Raja I think what you're saying is should we put this to be consistent with the other entries. Yes, because here it uses J&A 5.4. And the argument in favor of that is we've already expanded the acronym here on the line. So having done that this will look like this. Let's take a look at it. So it says job bump Java native access and then here in the hyperlink is where it uses J&A. Meg, I believe it's considered okay to expand first and then use acronyms later. I think so. Yeah. Okay. Outside of check I think that's a standard in check it's weird. All right. Okay. Anything else we need to change. 2.308. We're still on 309. We'll do 308 as a separate set of fixes. So everybody okay with me committing this one. Okay, yes. Okay, now, now this one will highlight a complication for us. I'm going to push something. Oops. But Deraj, for instance, you won't have permission to do this because I've got permission to write to the, this repository. And so when I say get push, it's actually going to push. See, I've got it. I've got to make that commit message better. Okay, so now if we say get push, and it says the upstream does not match your current. Why not get push. Oh, that's fun. Yeah. Oh, no. Okay. Not sure if I'm going to be allowed to do it so we may have to find another. Okay, so it's not so we've got this problem we've created the changes. But now how do we how do we communicate those changes to others as a proposed change to the poll request. See, I can't do a push because it blocks the push because I assume the depend about didn't does not allow others to push onto it. So how was it done last week. I don't think it was done I well let's let's that's good question. Let's go look. That's a very good question.  Oh, you do. Okay. Yes, very good. So let's go grab that link so here is the this is a link to the change log. Okay, so they proposed. Okay, I don't see any edits to the change law. Here's the initial commit. I don't see any edit so as far as I can tell they didn't do any edits. So I think what we we we've got to experiment with is, how will we edit this thing. And so if we did it, well let's let's try an idea. What if we did it like this what if we said, here's the automated change log. And we are going to. Okay, so I need to see the files changed. I do not understand that one, but I don't care this is the one that I want to make. Well, how do, how do we approach it. Okay, what if let's try one, one of them. Let's try fixing this one. Okay, so just making a wild attempt to fix this one by proposing it as a suggestion. I don't know if this will be acceptable to us or not. Let's try it. Okay, so here is the text that not where was it. Okay, this is that embedded fix missing icons. So it's this one right here. Right. Okay, so that's what we are proposing should be changed and our proposed change looks like this need to remove the image from the change log file. The image is from the change log file. Okay, so here's our proposed. The trouble is that that works fine for this one that stays in the same place. It doesn't work for a case where we need to move something from one place to another.  And that's really kind of painful. Let's, let's, how about let's try this technique and see if we can, if we can see if it's tolerable. Okay, so this one, I think was not changed right the modification from mods Jacobson, where did it go. Jacobson this one, we didn't modify that, did we just a full stop. I think. Okay, so then let's go to. So we've talked to cover these are now this one. Okay, so this is the JNA one. Now the problem is Jenkins 5682. Okay, so what what Tim says we should add a change log entry to that. Okay, Tim says need to add to this if so, which to me says he's expecting us to put in upgrade guidelines but I don't know how to make the upgrade guidelines create a reference. So let's do. Well, back to the question how do we create a poll request that has this content so proposed change log entries proposed upgrade guidelines. Alright, so proposed change log entry was, we had it right here didn't we propose change log entry was this, and no upgrade guidelines, nervous not having that right there. So here's the proposed comment and proposed upgrade guidelines. Does that make sense in terms of trying to do what Tim's recommending here. Thank you. Okay, so still for me, it'd be much clearer if we just insert into this thing. Our proposal, we think it should be this. So the reason why you edited the message for that pull request in the next step is because so that the generator can take it from there right. That was that was my hope I was actually just trying to follow Tim's advice. And, and I'm not sure which will win here right it may be that our proposed edits will win. It may be that instead the tool always copies from from the original and therefore our edits will be completely discarded. And I don't know which will actually happen. I think it will copy from the original maybe. Yeah, that's, I think, I think you're probably right. I just don't know if I am not not certain. Type category developer authors. Okay, so we should insert right above references at PR title. So PR title bump DNA. Okay. So this is one experimental way to see if we can, we could make it honor our change. But this didn't put it in the correct location. Okay, back to where we were let's go on to the next one that's this internal one. It is it all the way at the end. No, it's somewhere earlier. It's right here. Okay, so that's what we had proposed as the text for it. This is saying internal code and class loader. Okay, now I'm not sure what what I'd propose is let's try this as a test drive.  Now it may be that that needs the changes we've proposed. And so I'm just doing it as a comment submit the review. Now I'm going to actually go in and add the suggestions to a batch. I have to use the right view. Add the suggestions to a batch.  I think it will allow me so apply code review changes. Mark, wait. And make McRoberts. Whoops. Now why did it not get rid of refresh. This should have gotten rid of that image stuff which it did. Okay, so now. Okay, so, and I have to delete. Now if we do a GHPR check out. So now let's compare this and this. Did we get everything okay what we didn't get was we didn't change the ordering of things. And we lost the PR title here in that change which you had said is actually not preserved so that should be okay. Yes. So the next thing we need to do then is we need to change the ordering, and I'm not entirely sure how to do that from the GitHub interface. So what we're what we need to do is we need to delete this developer RFE and this internal. We've got to do this. Okay, we've got to take this one here. And so cancel my unskilled use. Okay, this needs to be marked for deletion. Whoops. Nope. Like that. And then it needs to be inserted here. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay, so I think this is a terribly painful process way to edit the change log. But let's try it and see if it works. So we're going to finish the review. What's that Jacob, Jacob's entry. I think we didn't put the full stop in the end. Oops, oops. Okay, what did I miss? There's an entry by Jacob, as you mentioned about this one about it code threshold to reverse trigger build in line one two three nine seven. So this, oh right, you're right. I see what you're saying. This one from Jan Farachik needs to move up above this one from mods Jacobson. You're right. Did I understand your your observation correctly. We might need to look at the ordering but I was specifically talking about line number 12397. Okay, this one. The full stop is missing, I think, right. Oh, the full stop is missing. I see what you're saying. Yes. Okay, good. Right. You are correct. It is. Got it. Okay. All right. That's a thank you got that. But I think isn't even worse that we've got an RFE first and then a bug and I think what we observed is the preference is bugs first then RFEs. Yes. So this thing needs to be deleted from its current location, and it needs to be inserted in this one at the very top, like that. Okay, so what that says is bug. In the top RFE full stop added full stop added bug moved up. And then developer and internal. Okay, so I think we're ready for just locations of bug items. Okay, and now we're going to have to do the same trick again of add to batch, add to batch, add to batch, add to batch, and now commit the changes from the batch. Reorder sections 2.309 change look. Okay, now back to our command line. Let's see if it. Okay. And now let's try a diff. And the only difference there is we didn't carry forward the PR title and we added a blank line. So if I do a make run, we should be able to see it. And it should look correct. This was a terribly painful way to do the task. Okay, I think it is still showing us what we wanted to see. But we were relying on my permissions to make those kinds of edits. I think what I'm going to have to do is talk to Tim tomorrow to see how he envisions this being edited. So it may be that what he's expecting is that we'll go edit the pull requests, and make them better somehow. And then the tool will automatically read from the pull the improved pull request description. So do you want to run locally and do the edits or do you want to edit directly on the PR that is on the repository. I think we would prefer to run locally but I don't know how to push the changes. Once we've run locally. Yes. So it doesn't make sense to eliminate the part where we don't have to run locally right. So you won't be able to see what is wrong and how does it look like eventually. And I don't think we can eliminate the run locally because without the run locally we would have missed that there was a picture at least I would have missed that there was a picture embedded in the changelog. Right. Yes makes sense. Now, now, better editing of the changelogs. Better better yeah better editing of the commit messages can avoid that but humans are human and they make mistakes. So this one I think I think 2.309 is is reasonable I think we're ready to switch to look at 2.308, but I apologize we've largely run out of time. Would you like to try something similar for 2.308 and propose it as a separate poll request. Do you do have time to do that or is this have we run out of your time as well. I mean right now or offline offline, I was just thinking offline without without so if if you've got capacity to do it, I would love to have someone else attempt and edit otherwise I can look at it tomorrow you know in the next 24 hours. Right. So since this has already been published already been published on the website. So it's just a practice for us right to edit it. Well it's it's not not just a practice in that I think this changelog is really bad right I think it's this is this is a changelog that we want to fix and and but we can do those fixes just by proposing a poll request to repair it. So it doesn't have to this doesn't require any special permissions, you can do it I can do it make it do it anybody could do that poll request. Okay, so I'll try today. Okay, well and and if it doesn't work out for you or you run out of time don't hesitate to stop will I'll I can take a look at it. Just post a message in the in the getter chat. Hey, ran out of time. Yes, and also I was having some problem with generating it locally due to GitHub issues I don't know why. So, if that doesn't work, I'd like to know as well. Okay, also, yes, if if anything blocks you don't worry about it just note it and and if I if I haven't seen a poll request from you by end of my day tomorrow, I'll probably work on it anyway. Okay, sure. Gitter or IRC. Either is fine. Either either is fine I have to check both of them so whichever one you're in use that one. I'm mainly active in IRC IRC is great then good choice. And last question is, should I be texting you on any channel because I'm only on Jenkins release or should I DM you. In fact Jenkins release is perfect because that's one of the two IRC channels that I monitor, and it's a low traffic channel that Tim sees so so it's a very good choice as far as I'm concerned. Awesome. So I'll text you there. Great. Great. All right. Thanks. Time to say goodbye. Well thanks to your eyes and thanks Meg. Thank you very much. Go ahead and stop the show and we'll call it done for today. Yes. Oh, right. I'll buy some notes. Thank you. See everybody.


Thank you all for joining us here today. This training is for the fiscal year 2021 High Frequency Communications Equipment Program Reimbursement and Modification Training. My name is Cindy Logan and I'm the Division Chief over the High Frequency Communications Equipment Program here at Cal OES. Today with us we have Al Hardway, he's the unit chief over the program and we also have Nick Martin who is our program representative. With that said, Nick has a few things that he would like to say for some housekeeping item, so I'll let Nick take it away. Hello everyone, first things first, this presentation is being recorded and will be available for on-demand viewing later. Everyone who has joined is in on listen mode, we cannot see or hear you and the raise hand feature is off as well. We do encourage you to share your questions throughout the presentation using the chat box feature. There will be a questions portion in the presentation where we'll answer all chat box questions and unmute people so that we can answer any verbal questions. And with that I believe we are ready to start with the presentation. Hello everyone. My name is Al Hardway and like Cindy said this is the High Frequency Communications Equipment Program. We're going to review a report of expenditures and requests for funds to report form 2-201 and the grant sub award modification form 2-223 and the processes needed and related. And in case you are recently back from a long, long trip, today is May 24th, 2022. So the goals of the presentation are to review the guidelines for grant sub-award fiscal management, the tools and processes for submitting payable 201 and the tools and processes for submitting a modification 2-223. And the common errors to avoid. We'll start out with the grant sub-recipient, you folks, your responsibilities. First adhere to any special conditions. I don't believe that that will apply to very many of you. A special condition is basically maybe something was missing on the application and it wasn't a showstopper. So we went ahead and process the application, but we put in a special condition to resolve the problem within a certain time period. Like I said probably only applies to one or two of you. Another responsibility on you is to submit a report of expenditure and requests due to the 2-201, the invoice basically timely and then on your side track those expenditures and as we get closer to the end of the grant, the close out deadlines. Timely submission of a 201, you're all considered local governments. There's a few of you that are JPAs and we're going to consider you local government as well. And so your submissions are quarterly. So the first quarter is April 1st through June 30th and your submission period would be 30 days following that so that the month of July that we would need to see your invoices. Thanks first.  And part of the grant package that you submitted was a face sheet or in the future if you need a modification, then you'll refer to that. And a signature authorization form, budget pages and any special conditions if any. And then on your side you need a general ledger that tracks your expenditures and your program specialist contact information and email should you need any assistance. This is a budget summary report which we will be sending to you monthly. I apologize it's for a different program but basically it should have the key pieces here which on your budget you had three sections, personal services, operating expenses and equipment. Most of you had the equipment section as your primary piece of the budget. The column budget amount is what your budget amount is, your allocation which is for most of you it's 60,000 or thereabouts. Submitted some invoices you would see what you have been paid and expanded and then the balance column would indicate what your balance is. This particular budget summary report with the column pending is indicating that there's an invoice that has been received or is being processed for 8500 and then the next column over is the pending balance that would be in place should that invoice be approved and processed. Where do we get the forms? You want to go to CalOES.ca.gov and then on the right is CalOES Divisions which will take you to this page. You want to scroll down to Grants Management and then scroll down to Helpful Links and click on Forms. That'll take you to this page which lists all our forms. You always want to go out to this page and get your forms in whatever form you need because you're going to get the current version and Grants Processing needs to have the current version. Remember that like a mantra, always get the current version of the form. In this case we're scrolling down to a 2-201 report of expenditures and request for funds and this is what the form looks like. Looks a little busy but it's actually not too complicated. People in the chat are saying they cannot see your screen for some reason. Somebody says they can't see the screen. Some people can't. I'm sure what the issue is. Do you have any direction on that? It seems most people can see it so I'm sorry if you can't see it sounds like it's a setting you may need to change on your end. We will be sending the video right Nick? Yes after the presentation is over we will be sending the recording out and that should not have any of these issues. Okay I apologize about that. I think we're good to go out. Okay so the top section of the 201 has basically your information and the grant information. Number one is the grant sub award number which indicates what grant it is, what the fund source is and then the last four numbers are specific to your agency. They are the identifier for our system on who you are. And then the sub recipient name and the payment mailing address are on your face sheet. Those are the names and the payment address that you reported to us on your application. Those are in our system and those need to match what you've submitted to us. The grant sub award number, the grant is FH 2101 and then the last four numbers like I said is exclusive to your agency and would be located on virtually all the documents in your application approval. Your sub recipient name is specific and the payment type most of these most of these lines are drop downs and so for the payment type it's a drop down that's going to give you a reimbursement which is your the one you're primarily going to use additional which is if you need to let's say you you invoiced for the first quarter but you found out that there was some additional expenditures that you didn't include then you can do an additional for that time period after the fact. An abatement is where you owe money back and there's a process for that. Match doesn't apply to you and then final payment is your final invoice and that would trigger grants processing and the system that you are done with the grant and we will not be receiving any more invoices. Now the program code is a drop down. It'll list all the grants that are being offered or worked on and one of them will be FH high frequency communications equipment program that's the one you want to select. The billing period will be quarterly and like I said the first first quarter will be April 1st through June 30th. Your payment mailing address is critical that it matches what was on the face sheet because that's what's in our system that's where the check is going to go. The fund year is 2021 and the fund source is PSC1. Here's a snapshot of the lower section or the middle section I should say of the 201. Like I said the fund year and the fund source is a drop down and then this is where you would put your amount requested. In this example what they're saying is they're claiming $1,000 from the personnel section and then $1,000 from the equipment section totaling $2,000 and you would enter the initial amounts and then it auto sums from there. So this covers pretty much what I said match does not apply and advance nobody got an advance so those two don't don't apply. So once again this is an example of requesting $1,000 for the personnel section $1,000 for the equipment $2,000 is what's being requested. You want to use whole numbers don't put any cents in that'll create rounding errors and then the final section of the 201 is very critical this is where a lot of problems come from is part of the application process forms one of them was 2-103 which you listed all your authorized signers and so be sure that you sign the 201 with signers that have been approved that you've submitted that are in our system and that's that's what it looks like where you sign so there's a financial side and there's a programmatic side. So you've got the 201 created and you feel free at the point if you want send an unsigned copy to the HF communications email and we can review it make sure it's correct and the information that you want to review is the grants of award number the funds requested are available remember budget summary so you should compare that if you're going to claim that $1,000 from the personnel section that there is actually $1,000 balance in that section whole dollar amounts and then the signatures match the current authorization forms you want to send the completed reimbursement form to this email vsgrantspaymentsatcaloas.ca.gov and any abatements need to be mailed in because basically an abatement is an overpayment so you are sending us a check and you would send the invoice with the check to that Cal OAS accounting address these addresses are listed on the top left of the 201 form couple common questions is when can I expect to receive my payment so Cal OAS has 30 calendar days from a receipt date to complete the payment approval process then after that process it goes to the state controller's office and they have 15 days calendar days so 45 days is a typical processing time for an invoice that's been submitted you're welcome to contact the program specialist at any point and we can usually determine where it is in the process and give some rough estimate on when you could expect to see something and this 45 days does not include mailing time if there is a problem with the invoice then what will be sent out is an invoice dispute notification and that'll be sent out to the the project director and I think the financial officer as well and also a copy will go to the program specialist so we'll be aware of it as well there's two different flavors of an invoice dispute one is non-payable and one is payable the non-payable dispute would be for things like an unauthorized signature incorrect billing period white out white out as a no no um and uh incorrect total amount possibly depends on what um what what that looks like payable something that um that the accounting team would go ahead and process fix on their side is um they may adjust the invoice amount to available funds so let's say you sent in an invoice with $2,000 in that personal section but you only had a thousand dollar balance then they would probably just adjust that invoice and pay you and then send you this dispute to notify you and the notification will include a budget summary so you can confirm what our system shows so this is a snapshot of a non-payable dispute in this case um it's an unauthorized signer which is um that's that's a typical problem in a typical non-payable dispute this is a payable dispute and like i said the on this one the claimed amount was 16,644 and the balance was available was only 16,294 so they adjusted the amount and then went ahead and processed the invoice and then sent to dispute here's another example of a budget summary report um and the dispute goes to the program specialist as well and in fact when they're approving the invoice the first thing that happens uh when your invoice comes in it's sent to the program specialist and that specialist reviews what you've submitted and either approves or denies it and at that point and then at the dispute point um you know we'll look at what your balances are and your trends and try to help guide you on maybe you may need to move some money let's say in this case if your um your invoices are primarily from operating you're almost out of uh operating funds then we may you know ask you do you think you need to move some money over from the personal section over to the operating um kind of try to be proactive on it okay another question typical question is how do i claim additional expenses on a pass 201 um you can either include it on your next 201 but i would recommend that you do an additional 201 and and that's one of the drop downs on the invoice form uh what what type of uh invoice are you submitting an additional and then just put in the amount that you are claiming not the entire amount for both um uh invoices all right at this point uh are there any questions we had uh one question in the chat that i'm sure uh other people probably will curious about is uh do we need to attach any invoices or supporting documents with the reimbursement request no no supporting documents you're operating off of your ledger and um you uh just complete the invoice the two dash 201 submit that one um through the email if there are any other questions please feel free to unmute yourself and ask or we got one more in the chat um what if in one invoice alone will be the full granting request then that would be your final invoice your first and final so um you would have a choice whether you wanted to mark it as your final because being your final invoice is kind of a one-way ticket um so if it's you know prior to the close of the grant i would probably go ahead and submit it as a reimbursement and then um you know that gives you time to reevaluate in case there was an error or or that you could always send in a final invoice later which um one of the things i failed to mention was uh you need to submit an invoice uh for each invoice period whether you have reimbursements or not so you know at the end of June is the end of the first quarter and you don't have any reimbursements uh needed then you would submit a two dash 201 for requesting zero basically can i clarify that a little bit al pardon me can i clarify that a little bit sure so basically if you only have one expense your $60,000 or whatever it was that you were granted and it's one reimbursement because you purchased one um high frequency um communications equipment then you would still continue to submit your reimbursement forms when they're due but you would just continue would put that there's nothing on there you would put zero and then for the one that you do want to get reimbursed for you would submit that one i don't know if that clarified a little bit better did that help okay she says yes that makes sense okay uh our next question from sherry lang she says if we have not received our sub award when should we expect to receive it uh should should be coming shortly um this is the end of the fiscal year for the state so it's kind of the the perfect storm time period so but um i would expect to see them here pretty soon so actually the sub awards are it's a reimbursement so you would not receive the actual funding until you request a reimbursement but you should be receiving your award letters very shortly if you haven't already uh next question from vicki osborn so are we using the invoices as a progress report Cindy want to answer that sure so the progress report there's only one progress report that is due at the end of the performance period so um i believe al can you remind me when that performance period ends is it december 31st of october october 31st 2023 so that's we will be sending out emails to everyone um to provide you a progress report um that needs to be completed and submitted back to and that will be due um november the end of november i believe so you should be receiving some time mid next year an email from us on that progress report and how to submit it but um the invoices are not your progress report um thank you cindy scott millner wants to know does psc one stand for public safety communications grant one uh yes i'm gonna say yes on that it's uh the uh acronym that was attached to that grant funding so psc one actually is yeah it's like al said it's public safety communications for psc the one probably you know it doesn't signify that there's going to be a second one we cannot guarantee that there's and you're going to be any more funding for this but um each grant program that we have here at calloway s does need an acronym and that was just what was chosen there's no significance to it but yes the psc does count for uh public safety communications thank you cindy uh daniel goldstein asks once we receive the sub award are we allowed to place the order with the vendor i'm assuming daniel you mean once you receive your award notification are they allowed to place the order with the vendor uh yes you um you want to you want to you want to receive your uh sub award approval before you do any expenditures that's for sure um and then once you're approved you're uh you're all set you're ready to go uh theresa uca wants to know is the award letter something we need to sign in return or is it our document or is it that our documentation that we move forward and can order equipment you'll receive an award letter and uh heart uh most most of your application documents that uh were submitted and approved so it's a package that you'll receive and this sub award letter is obviously the the official formal letter that approves you for the grant thank you al uh they see tanuma i believe we did answer this asked if we have submitted our quarter invoice and reimbursement request for the full amount do we still need to continue submitting quarterlies i believe we said that yes we would just continue to submit them for zero dollars requested correct correct unless um unless you submitted a final invoice then that would indicate that you're done with the grant no more invoices would be expected from you uh thank you our jim jim marchetti asked are the award letters sent via email or postal service um they're going to be received email i don't believe they mail them out anymore so they'll be sent out to the project director on your um project contact list the two dash 102 you listed the project director and the financial officer so each of those uh officials would would receive a copy thank you next question uh scott ricker asks just to confirm we will go ahead and purchase the approved equipment with agency funds and then we would put in uh the request with the 201 reimbursement form yes yes correct yes uh next question when is the first reimburse reimbursement form going to be due to calloway s so the first uh invoice period is april 1st through june 30th that's the first quarter of the grant and then july is your invoicing period so you want to get your invoice in within that time period july 1st through july 31st thank you crystal harland asks will calloway s require governing board of approval to accept the grant before the grant agreement is awarded and executed um once you get the grant approval you've been approved your um your your approvals on your side are already completed i mean we're we're not going to um this is what the the form that was required for your application the certificates of assurance of compliance the form uh 2-104 is this right so your your certificate of assurance is basically assuring that your um you've gone through your board your board has approved and your one of your board members has signed that certificate so the answer would be yes calloway s is going to require the board of approval through the one of four yes um which everyone here should have already submitted and so that should be resolved um next question from tamera witcher is there a way to follow up with someone if we do not receive the sub award approval uh it was said earlier these are still going out um if you've not received it yet they are coming very very soon i would say that the actual um award letters probably will not come out until june so um probably mid june if not sooner but uh we actually have until june 30th to get them out so um they have been cited for our um our um accounting department so they are all in the process of getting out so if you haven't gotten anything by the end of i don't know um from mid june go ahead and email the hf communications epochs and just follow up with us and just say hey i haven't received it yet what's my status have no problem um you know giving that information to you yes any questions uh of any kind concerning this grant should be sent to the hf communications at calloway s.ca.gov which all of you are interacting with uh next question from jesulito sorry uh is there a form to request transfers between budget line items yes that is uh the form 2-223 it is the second half of this presentation we're going to cover it in length here momentarily uh next question from mary heath is this grant funded with state funds federal funds and do we need to complete an EHP it's it's funded with state funds um and we don't require an EHP okay next question from scott millner is the codan and or vered equipment readily readily available uh or should we expect to encounter long back or supply chain delays we cannot answer that question that is a question you would have to ask the vendors directly we do not have any contact with them yeah can we restrict the questions to um the invoicing process yes if you have any questions that aren't related to these forms please email us at the email we stated earlier hf communications at ls.ca.gov we'll be happy to answer them shortly but due to the time constructions we'd like to keep the questions just to the forms today and it looks like that may be the last of the questions unless anybody has any now is your time all right thanks a lot of good questions um the next section is modifications and uh that would be changes to your grant sub award agreement uh the goals of the presentation are to understand how to make those changes and to review the forensome process needed to do the modification uh the grant sub award modification form is a two dash two two three uh basically it's the official process to make changes to the approved budget and or other functional components of the sub award always get the latest version which you would want to go here to caloas.ca.gov on the right caloas the visions scroll down to grants management helpful links and click click on forms scroll down to the two dash two two three the grant sub award modification form same location as the invoice form but in this case it's a two dash two two three this is what the form looks like once again the top section is going to be uh your agency information the grant sub award number modification number is this your first one second one uh the grant sub award performance period which is four one twenty two through ten thirty one twenty three uh the sub recipient name and then once again critical get the payment mailing address that um that we have on file that you submitted with the original application or changed with the previous modification think we'll go through those sections the grant sub award modification you want to do this whenever you're changing key personnel um and authorized signers your mailing address uh and then operational or equipment changes and budget changes this is the one oh two this is the form that you listed your key personnel uh the grant sub award director and the financial officer are the key signers on the the next form which is a one oh three so those are critical um critical authorized signers so any changes to this contact information form you would do a modification and that would most likely lead to this is a two dash one oh three that lists the authorized signers that you've supplied us the uh grant sub award director and the financial officer those are the first two positions on the previous form and then any other signers so if you notice on this form there's a programmatic side and a financial side the same person can't sign on both you can only sign on one so this is what we're going to refer back to this is what's going to be in our system for authorized signers um if you're going to change your equipment you most likely will need to do a modification check with your program specialist and this will probably lead to not only a budget update but a budget narrative where you explain in detail um your budget uh budget changes this is an example of a budget page this is the personnel section and basically this is um so someone is adding a line item on this modification uh executive director salary yearly salaries 80 000 and then they're claiming 10 percent of that time on this grant which yields eight eight eight thousand i'm sorry and then this is um on the right is the budget page and then on the left is the modification page so this section of the uh modification page the two dash two two three um it lists the grant information which this grant is 2021 funds and the psc one acronym and uh initially the grant was awarded for 20 000 and it was all in the operating section so this is indicating that you are now adding a line item in the personnel section you're moving 8 000 out of the operating into the personnel and then the lower section the revised allocation is indicating your new allocations of eight thousand dollars in the personnel and in 12 000 in the operating with the total the total remains the same 20 000 the proposed change section cancels itself out uh so that should always be zero um additional forms may be needed depending on what style of modification you need so contact your program specialist and review with him what what you're what you need to do what your goals are with the modification and and they'll guide you the timeline for a modification is uh you submit it it goes to your program specialist for review if he has any problems or notices anything uh he'll send it back to you for corrections and then when he gets it back he'll send it to the unit chief the unit chief does a final check and then sends it over to grants processing grants processing then we'll send out an approval letter to the subrecipient uh and that process takes about two weeks final reminders reach out to your program specialist at any time uh and use them as a guide to discuss any changes that you may need and use the current forms any questions you have a question in the chat uh elavia hilda she asked do we need to have the approved modification modification before submitting an invoice yes yes your modification so if you're submitting an invoice if you're doing the modification so you can submit the invoice reflected through the changes then yes you want the modification submitted you want it approved and then submit the the invoice after that and one thing I forgot to mention was if you're doing a signature authorization change then the modification form you want to sign that with the new signatures not the old ones the old ones are theoretically gone so you you want to you want to sign that form with the the new changes thank you a couple of you will ask who is the program specialist or who do we find out who it is program specialist is me nick martin but you should still contact us through the hf communications at callas.ca.gov email inbox and I'll follow up with you there uh the next question when submitting a a person of contact change do I have to up to update the information the 2-223 only do I also attach a new 2-1 or 2 form with it so um number one if you if you if you actually need to do a modification then please follow up um with contacting us on the hf communications email so we can consult with you but in in that case you're sounds like you're doing key personnel changes so you would need the 223 the 102 the key key personnel form and then if that involves a signature change then you would do the 2-103 and I think that would be it but I advise you to contact the contact us at the hf communications email any other questions you can unmute yourself if you don't want to type it in the chat and feel free to ask going once twice okay I think that might be it for questions great well thank you everyone for taking the time um and uh always use the most current form uh reach out to us for any assistance or guidance that uh you need any questions you have and um thank you very much yeah I just want to say on behalf of Cal OES thank you very much we're really excited to work with you all so like Al said just go ahead and email us at hfcommunication at cal oes.pa.gov if you have more questions we have Nick that is um he's uh uh looking at the inbox daily so he responds really quick to you if not it would be Al or myself that could respond well so um we we aim to try to respond really quick and with that said thank you all and have a great rest of your day bye thank you


In this lecture what we're going to be doing is we're going to be taking a look at power cycles that involve vapor and so we'll have a liquid working fluid of our power cycle will be going through a phase change and one of the common fluids that we will find in these vapor power cycles is water, water going through the phase change from liquid water into steam. So we'll be looking at vapor and combined power cycles in this chapter or in this lecture. So thus far what we've looked at in terms of power cycles we looked at the gas power cycle and we considered a number of different ones there we looked at the auto, the diesel, the sterling and the Brayton. So the thing that we found with the auto, the diesel, sterling perhaps to a lesser extent and the Brayton these are gas power cycles that are quite often used in mobile applications so be it an automobile, a ship, aircraft in the case of a Brayton cycle. We're now going to be looking at vapor power cycles. Now the thing about vapor power cycles is they have traditionally or historically been used and developed in steam engines and these were mobile applications. The first one was developed in 1770 by a military engineer for the French Army and and then that evolved into steam engines that were used throughout the early 1900s. In more recent years this has evolved into power plants. So the systems that provide us with electricity and these are stationary. However there were also early steam engines that were stationary as we'll see in the next video clip. So let's take a couple of minutes here and look at a few different applications of steam engines. So in that video clip we saw a number of different applications of vapor power cycles starting with a stationary steam engine that was used as part of a weaving mill back in the late 1800s. We then moved forward well actually moved back in time but it was the first mobile application from the late 1700s the French military engineer that I had referred to. That was the first mobile application of steam power where they would build a fire underneath the boiler and it would generate steam and that system might go for a kilometer or a mile on one single charge of steam. So it wasn't really that practical and then then we saw a steam engine that was used in the rail system. That was from about the 1940s era and those steam engines were used throughout the world for many many years and some parts are still used and you generate steam and that is what gives you mobility. And then we concluded the segment with another train and it indirectly is also powered by steam. However the steam generation in the case of the shinkansen in Japan would be generated either through a nuclear power plant or a coal burning power plant or a natural gas burning power plant that is stationary and then you generate electricity and that is what powers the shinkansen. So those are some applications of steam power and so what we're going to do in this lecture and the next few lectures we're going to take a look at power plants. So more of the stationary application of steam which is typically what we do today. So what we'll be doing is we'll be taking a look at steam power plants, the different designs or forms of steam power plants. There are many different iterations and variations that we will encounter and then we'll look at ways of being able to analyze and determine the thermal efficiency of steam power plants. So that's where we're going with the next few lectures.