Justin, are we ready? I think so. All right. Whenever you're ready. Great. Welcome to DVRC members, staff and guests. We ask for your patience during this virtual meeting. Multiple staff members are behind the scenes to make sure that the meeting runs smoothly and all applicants and citizens are able to communicate with the commission at the appropriate time. During the meeting, you will see live images or still images of DVRC members and staff. However, images of the applicant and public will not be visible. The public will also be able to participate via three methods. When participating, please provide your name for documentation purposes. You can participate in a number of ways by watching and emailing, running in or logging into the work session. If you're watching, please turn the meetings through city TV, which is access at www.youtube.com, backslash user, backslash Columbia SC government. Calling, emailing letters and statements via email to CSC board meeting at Columbia SC.gov. We look to and or during the meeting as this account will be monitored throughout the proceedings. The number of letters will be read into the record. If you wish to phone in, you can call<PHONE_NUMBER>. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 4293. Those participating by phone will receive three options on how to participate. That will be read into the record. The number of letters will be read into the record. The number of letters will be read into the record. Those three will allow participants to be placed in a queue so they may speak live when prompted. Please make sure your computer audio is muted if you're calling in live so we can avoid feedback. And last, if you'd like to, you can stream via the web. And you can reach that at publicinput.com, backslash CRC, DDRC, and you can reach that number. And you can reach that number. And you can reach that number. And I will call the roll. Mr. Baker. Present. Mr. Bram. Yeah. Mr. Dinkins. Mr. Dinkins, you may be muted. I know he's here. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Thank you. Here. Miss Johnson. Here. Mr. Saliri. Here. Mr. Dinkins. Here. Mr. Wall. Here. Yeah. Great. In order to avoid ex parte communications, DDRC members are under strict instructions not to discuss cases under consideration with the public or with each other outside of the public forum. The meeting typically starts with staff calling the case, giving a summary of the project and then calling on the applicant to present if they wish. In order to avoid ex parte communications. Decisions are typically made in one evening. Decisions may be appealed within 30 days to a court of competent jurisdiction. Oaths will be administered individually as we hear either from applicants or from live speakers. Applicants with requests before the DDRC are allotted a presentation time of 10 minutes. This time should include, but it's not limited to an overview of the project, but it's not limited to a request. This time also includes all persons presenting information on behalf of the applicant, such as attorneys, engineers and architects. This time limit does not include any questions asked by the DDRC or staff regarding request. Members of the general public are given the opportunity to address their concerns and intervals of two minutes. Applicants may have five minutes to respond. Staff has a timer and will make presenters aware of when they need to respond. Are there any changes to the agenda? We have had one, Carl, from the urban design agenda. That was a request at 222 Main Street. It was a request for design approval for new construction in the north main corridor design district. Otherwise there are no other changes. The DDRC uses the consent agenda to approve non-controversial consent. The consent agenda is approved by a single motion and vote. If a member of the DDRC or the general public wants to discuss an item on the consent agenda, that item is removed from the agenda and considered during the meeting. The DDRC then approves the remaining consent agenda items. Will staff please read the consent agenda. The first item on the consent agenda is 1416 Victoria street. This is a request for preliminary certification for the district. The second item on the consent agenda is a request for the Bailey bill in the cotton town, Bellevue architectural conservation district. The next item is 208 watery avenue. A request for preliminary certification for the Bailey bill. And certificate of design approval for exterior changes in the Wales garden architectural conservation district. The next item is 1511 Richland street. The second item on the consent agenda is a request for the Bailey bill. And for design approval for exterior changes in the landmark district. The next is a vacant lot. Bound by part Brian and Clark streets. It's a request for certificates of design approval for new construction. And site improvements in the Elmwood park. Architectural conservation district. The next item is 1324 Richland street. A request for design approval for new construction. In the landmark district. Next to 1728 Main street. This is a request for a certificate of design approval for exterior changes. And preliminary certification for the Bailey bill. This is linked with 1730 Main street. Which has a similar request for exterior changes and preliminary certification for the Bailey bill. This is linked with 1730 Main street. Which has a similar request for exterior changes and preliminary certification for the Bailey bill. 1728. Is in the city center design development district, Columbia commercial historic district, which is a national registered district. 1730 Main street. Is also an individual landmark. And also within both of those districts. And last is 3452 North Main street. A request for a certificate of design approval for exterior changes. And preliminary certification for the Bailey bill. This is a national registered structure. And also falls within the North Main corridor design district. That's all. Great. Is there anyone from the DDRC that would like any items removed from the consent agenda? Okay. Not hearing any. Is there anyone from the public that would like to have an item removed from the consent agenda? No emails at this time. Okay. Thank you. I believe are we ready now to get a motion. I do have a caller on the line. I don't see that they've asked to speak. However, if they wish to speak, they should. Press start three. And I'll wait just a moment to see if they do so. I don't see that they're enjoying the speaker queue. So. Thank you. Please communicate by sending an email to COC board meeting at Columbia SC dot gov. Or communicate via phone by pressing start three. And I'll wait just a moment to see if they do so. I don't see that they're enjoying the speaker queue. Just a moment to continue to see if they can step up or communicate via phone by pressing star to to leave. Our start three to speak in person. I think we, we just paused here a little bit, but I don't believe we have any callers or received anything. Do I have a motion and a second to accept the agenda as well as the main minutes. Sure. the consent agenda items with all staff recommendations and the May 13, 2020, design development review commission minutes. Second. Mr. Bram. Yes. Mr. Dinkins. Yes. Ms. Jacob. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Yes. Mr. Saliti. Yes. Mr. Wolfe. Yes. And Mr. Baker. Yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Great. All right. We're now ready to move to the regular agenda. All right. This project is for new construction located at the currently vacant lot at 915 Pine Street in the Old Shandong, Lower Waverly Protection Area. It's proposed to be a two-story single family residence. The applicant originally proposed a design for new construction that did not meet the Old Shandong, Lower Waverly guidelines and deferred their project to reassess their plans. They have since been bringing their plans to be more in keeping with the standards. And staff finds that it mostly meets the guidelines. Staff's main concern with the original plans was with the front-facing attached garage, which directly disregarded both the sense of entry requirements, garage location requirements, massing, and driveway specifications for city ordinance. Since the initial plans, however, the applicant has removed the front-facing garage, also reducing the driveway to 12 feet. I was originally proposed at 16 feet, which was four feet over the maximum allowance. They've also brought the front porch in line with the right bay of the front facade. It was originally recessed. And they've also widened the front porch to about 9 feet to have a better sense of entry. With all of these changes, there are still some minor tweaks to the design that staff recommends to better meet the guidelines. Considering these changes and the efforts made by the applicant to meet the guidelines, staff recommends granting a certificate of design approval with the following recommendations. The faux windows on the front elevation be removed, and the two paired windows be moved to be in line with the center point of the front-facing gable to create a better rhythm of openings, as well as the front porch column be replaced with a more simple traditional column in place of the craftsman-style bolt column that's depicted on the plans to help open up that entry. Both side elevation windows be arranged to have a better sense of rhythm, as depicted by staff recommendations. And then with the exception given due to the extreme narrowness of the lot and the efforts of the applicant to meet the design guidelines for the new construction, staff recommends that the proposed driveway be reduced to 10 feet and move four feet towards the right property line. So the driveway only takes up six feet of the front elevation, thereby reducing any visual impact to the main structure and all details to purchase staff. And I believe the applicant is on the call. Is the applicant on? Yes, I am. I'm here. Hi. Can you please state your name? My name is Julius Thomas. And do you swear to tell the truth in these proceedings? I do. Thank you. Well, thank you for having us today. We have had to defer a couple of times to try to meet the city's requirements. And I think we've worked very hard at doing that. We love our neighborhood. We've been here for 17 years. And our family just have grown the house that we're in. So we're trying to get a little bit bigger home. Didn't get everything that we wanted in the new design, but we are happy with it. And we have just met with our home designer and all the staff recommendations can be accommodated, the ones that are laid out and read. So we are hoping to move forward with the project with you guys' approval. OK, so just Mr. Thomas, my clerk. So you're comfortable with all the recommendations the staff just laid out? Yes, ma'am. OK. Any questions from any DDRC members? I have a question now. Outside of the house, the driveway itself, when you reduce the driveway, you're limited only to one car park. I think the owner is thinking about two cars park side by side. Is that correct? Well, Bob, I think that any driveway with in the area is going to have to be really one car anyway. I think 12 feet to the maximum. So I don't see where that's OK. OK, 12 feet to the maximum. Yeah, you're right. OK, thank you. I do think it might encourage parking elsewhere, but I don't think that's any different any other situation. Any other DDRC members? Any other follow-up questions? The staff recommended a slender column instead of the Craftsman column. What kind of column have you had in mind? A square column, a round column, or what? On the original plans submitted by the applicant, there was a cylindrical column, kind of a typical traditional column that was depicted. That would be acceptable. Just the current bulk column seemed to take up a lot of that sense of entry and a smaller column would open up that space a little bit better to draw the attention to the front entry. Thank you. We encourage those. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Is that Mr. Dinkins speaking? Yeah, how long have they been working with staff? Have you guys been working with staff on this? I believe originally Mr. Thomas reached out back in October of last year, first plans that staff saw was in March for the April meeting. They also had to go before BOSA for a little bit of variance to which they just they had to reduce some of the square footage for the zoning square footage allowance as well. OK. All right.  And I just see a lot of recommendations, but that's not atypical. So I'm OK. Thank you. We encourage those that would like to communicate via email to begin sending in letters and emails. You can email at cocboardmeeting at columbiasc.gov or go on the web at publicinput.com slash cocddrc-junjun2021. For those wanting to leave a voicemail or speak live, call<PHONE_NUMBER>. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 4293, then press star 2 to begin leaving the voicemail. If you would like to speak live, press star 3. And please make sure your audio is off your computer to have any backlash. We will now hear any comments that have been received in writing. And I do not see any emails at this time. OK. Now, hear any voicemails received, as well as anybody calling in live. And likewise, I do not have any voicemails. And I should not have anyone that has unheard of speaker here. Have we received any correspondence? I think we've received everything, correct? Don't think we have any follow-up questions, do we? I think we all ended pretty much in DDRC comments. I think now we'll move to see if anybody would like to make a motion. Sure, I will. I move to grant a request or an approval for request for a design approval for new construction at 915 Pine Street. Based upon the design is generally in keeping with section four of the design guidelines with the following conditions. The foe windows on the front elevation are removed. And the paired windows be moved to be in line with the corner point of the front facing gable to create a better rhythm of openings. Both side elevation windows be arranged to have a sense of rhythm as depicted by staff recommendations. The front porch column be replaced with a simple traditional column to help open up the entry. With exception given due to the extreme narratives of the lot, staff recommends, well, let me just rephrase this, that the driveway shall be reduced to 10 feet in width and moved four feet to the right of the property lines so the driveway only takes up six feet in the front. All other details defer to staff. I think right. Do we have a second? Second. Jebron? Yeah. Mr. Dinkins? Yes. Ms. Jacob? Yes. Ms. Johnson? Yes. Mr. Salimi? Yes. Mr. Wolfe? Yes. And Mr. Baker? Yes. The motion passes. All right. Was there anything else on the regular agenda? The only other thing that I had was just that we have had our architect with the Start Preservation Experience slot filled. Mary Beth Brannum with LS3P will be joining us in July, which is good news. Oh, that's great news. Yes. Is that is that conclude any other business? That's all I've got. All right. Wow. OK. How about a motion for a motion to adjourn this meeting? Second. Thank you. All right, everybody, y'all have a great rest of the rest of the day. Thank you. Thank you.


All right, so it's six o'clock. So we can go ahead and move forward if everyone's ready. It is Monday, May 16th, 2022. We're here with John Hogle meeting room here, town office. So we'll go ahead with public comments. Travis, or is this gentleman here who's here first, sir? Or Travis? I just got a question from a select board. The part of the town of Morton has a policy on class four roads and legal trails for the select board or for the public. We've got public. Tell them that it's like a class four policy. Yeah. Is that still an effect? Yeah, so thank you. Sir? Hey, what's your name? I'm Jeff Plaches. Second, Jeff Plaches. Oh, you're talking to him again, right? I think so. Oh, you're at 615, Jeff. I'm sorry. But you'll be sooner than that, because I don't see it. Any other Travis, you said, would public comment? Just to know, do you have any police in, like, enforcement for any roads or anything? We just had a lot of really high speed cars going by on the Morton and Outroad.  It's almost halfway through the year and we don't have Sheriff or anything controlling these roads, so just a little bit of a fast-forwarding, Tom. No, no, unfortunately, the shortage of both troopers and people for the Sheriff's Department have prevented them from contracting with us. I know John's here to talk about the same thing. John, I think that Corey's probably here to pull the comment so we can chat with him tonight, but I know John's got something to say about that as well, and we can discuss it, Travis, and I don't know what the solution is at this point, but we can talk about it. Corey, did you have a question? Or did you have something to pull the comment? I did, so, hold it. We have received our ARPA grant directly from the Department of Libraries, and we had to tell them what we wanted to spend it on, and because it's over $1,200, I wanted to come get approval to do that, so we are going to be purchasing some furniture that's flexible, a couple of study corrals so that people could potentially work or be on a Zoom call about feeling like they're just in the space, and then some mobile seating, and then a few updates to our collection. So it's about 2034 as a total, and like I said, we've already received the funds, I just need to get them spent by the end of July, or middle of July. So here are our funds, the dates are shorter than what it is for the town itself. Yes, it funneled straight through the Department of Libraries, so they just gave each library a set amount based on our population, and then some indicators like free and reduced lunch, and some other scores, like that. What was the total amount that you guys received? 2,834, yeah. You didn't have to apply for it or anything, you just, we have to do a chapter. We did have to apply for it, but it was pretty much guaranteed once we applied for it. Don't you put it in there? Yeah. As far as the stuff that you're buying, did you put it out in bid or is that how you've procured it? So I had to provide the budget in the grant, and I just did that from the library furniture website, Demco that we use, because we have an account with them, but I can certainly shop around a few different places. If you don't mind just doing that, just look around, making sure you're, but if that's a specific site you've been getting stuff, it's probably just counted for the purposes anyways. It's certainly, it's your money, you can control what you want to buy, so it's fine with us. I'd need to call you to spend the money on this four said items that she mentioned earlier. Second. Call you, and for the discussion, all in favor? Hi. All right. Great. There you go. Awesome. Thank you very much. Yep. Quick and things. Anything else, Corey, or how things going over there? Great. The other cool thing we're doing is I bought a bunch of lawn games and tennis rackets and bocce ball that we're gonna loan out as a library of things, and that's another grant that we received from the Children's Trust Foundation, so I'm hoping to get that promoted in time for the Memorial Day so people can check some games out and play on the fields. All right, great. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a nice night. Yeah, be as well. Thank you. All right, thank you. Let me just make sure we don't have anyone else waiting in the waiting room here. There's none up here. All right. John, why don't you slide up there? Sure. How are you doing today, all right? Yeah, I'm doing fine. Good. Busy day, but that's okay. All right, so you came in and, I'm terrible, did you ever speed on the back roads? So it sounds like you and Travis kind of think the same thing. Yeah, I guess. It's too bad John Hogan-Boom's not here because you would know who, anyways, the history of some of the speeding things. Jim Hubbell, remember Jim Hubbell? By any chance, he used to live up on the common, used to come to meetings and just go apoplectic.  Anyways, so I'm the Jim Hubbell of speed. And this started with me when my son was 18 months old up on the common road where I lived, 551 where he used to live. And I won't bore you with all the details, but it ended up being an angry call to the state police at 515 for endangering my baby and my puppy. And he actually did call me back. And then he called me back the next morning and said the parents wanna bring these boys by to personally apologize. And I said, no, I like my mailbox right where it is. It doesn't need to be hammered or shot or anything else. Just please educate him, educate him. And I said, frankly, to the cop, I don't care how fast they go up this road. But when they encounter a human, a dog or both or whatever, slow down. And I am gonna enter this into the record. And then it goes on and on. I staged a crash one morning after the school bus left. That's the only credit I get. The school bus went by and I went out and I staged a crash in my door yard, major. And I had my son's bike lying down. I had a pumpkin because it was October as his head. Then I had a body covered and somebody, I try not to do names because I'm a professional, but a neighbor went by and she went right to the Moortown store and called the state police. Fine. So then another neighbor comes by who she just totally flicked out. She goes, what happened here? And she comes in and talks to my wife. And while she's, my wife is saying my husband's being idiot, the state trooper drives in. And she grabs my neighbor and goes, we're out of here, you're on your own buddy. And he said, you are more than 50 feet from the center line.    So now I'm on a new road. And yeah, I'm a little, you know, what's the word, prejudice, but, and most of the drivers are good, but I'm about, I don't know, five or six days ago, a neighbor randomly pulls into my driveway and goes, John, I heard you're not into speeders on our road. And I go, I'm not. She goes, well, I'm not either. And I go, you live at the end of our road. You know, what is your issue? And she goes, well, I was walking with my friend and we had our dogs. And she didn't do the numbers, right? But she said a couple of trucks went by way too fast and we feared for our wellbeing. I said, okay, so that's when I called Sasha and got on your schedule. Because now, and this is the point, I guess, but it's all relative, you know, and I know, but I will say this, we pay taxes in this county, in this state. And I go to Montpellier a lot. I teach driving for a living. And there's a, at least, I didn't count them, but I'll count them, there are 11 dead, a Washington County Sheriff Jeep sitting up there doing nothing, at least a dozen. They're in this parking lot doing nothing. We could at least park one somewhere. Like the good old days, remember? You'd be driving along and you'd see this hot car park running radar. There's no one in the freaking thing. But you slowed down because you didn't want a ticket. So that's my point. You don't need people. I'll even do it with insurance. I'll drive the white car. The stateys are busy. I know state troopers. I respect state troopers. They come to all my drivers that classes. Their major job is drug interdiction on the interstate. And that is the absolute truth. If you call them, they'll come. But basically, it's drug interdiction up there. They don't even care about speed. I've even had an email and say, could you please not tell my drivers that kids, they can go 80? They've said that in my class. It's like, OK, next, next. Anyways, so how about a couple of empty white and red cars? I hear you about the labor shortage, but it's ridiculous. And I'll tell you one thing. If anything ever happens, and I've been through it right out here in front of the school, I won't even go tell you those stories.    How come you're not down here every Wednesday for 35 minutes? Just sit there, have a coffee, I'll buy it. Slow people down. But I would be embarrassed if I was the commander, and some child died on my watch six miles from my barracks.  What's going on here? I don't care about a heroin dealer from Springfield, Mass, or anywhere else. Children are getting hit here. My son had a broken leg.  I stepped.  This is way, this has nothing to do with drivers that. And I just walked right out in the middle of 100, and I said, stuck, and he goes, what's the matter? I go, no, I'm sorry. I go, where are you? My son's here with him. Take him. Anyway, so now I'll shut up, sorry. This is in, it's this thick. Title 23 in the state of Vermont is this thick. And it has a lot of information that none of us need. But this piece of information, every driver in the state of Vermont needs. Okay, motor vehicle lot, title 23, sub chapter eight, speed restrictions, cross references. And it is called the basic rule and maximum limits. It's called the basic speed rule, okay? No person, this has nothing to do with teenagers or Vermonters or transplants, okay? Just saying. No person shall drive a vehicle on the highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions. In every regard, for the actual and potential hazards then existing, in every event, speed shall be controlled as necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle, or other object on or adjacent to the highway. So it's everything, you have to share the road with everything and everybody. Cows, you know, everything. You know, I'm not making this up. Except when there exists a special hazard that requires lower speed, in accordance with subsection A, blah, blah, blah. The limits specified in this section or established as hereafter are maximum lawful speeds and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of 50 miles an hour. Technically speaking, and I do not tell the teenagers you are allowed to drive your car on any dirt road in the state of Vermont at 50 miles an hour. If it's unmarked. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, if it's unmarked. Same with pavement. But it's still set in reasonable conditions under the statute. Thank you. Try to translate that to whatever. But yes, so I always say 50 on pavement, 35 on dirt, white line, whatever. These are kids. Anyways, the maximum speed limit set forth in this section may be altered in accordance with section, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is true. Again, it's a maximum. Okay, and finally, the driver of every vehicle shall consistent with the requirements of subsection A of this section, drive at an appropriate, reduce speed when approaching and crossing an intersection, a railway grade, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching the crest of a hill, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway and when special hazards exist, which I know is a wide range of stuff, but we all need to drive for that, okay? Blah, blah, blah. So I was just at a all day meeting in Killington, Vermont that the state of Vermont sponsored about impaired driving was the impaired driving conference summit and there were all the big wigs there. I'm not bragging, but over the years, I've got to know many of them on a first name basis, but, and that was the point, but I didn't bring it, but there were these vendors who sell red lights to cops and winky blue lights and whatever you think else, and they sell speed control and wrong way control signs and I didn't bring the booklet, but there's all these things on speed control because that's still an issue.  Julo was doing 25 in downtown Mount Piliar, downtown Mount Piliar, you were doing 25?  And if all of us in this room, I had a hazard to say, looked at the speedometer down there, you're not doing 25, if you know what you're doing, that's too fast, but they pull into any parking lot, I go, what's the speed limit? They go, look at me and go, walking speed. And I go, yeah, walking speed. I don't want you looking down. I want you looking for the kid running for Skittles from the gas pump out of the minivan into in the Hortown store. That's what I want you watching.  So I guess I've given my passionate thing. Now the other, if I may keep rattling on, have you, okay, obviously he, and I don't know about this gentleman, but it's an issue. So I absolutely propose and my two neighbors who are nearly hit by this truck a week ago, a woman and a man, I personally will crowdfund any amount of speed signs that the town of Morton needs to buy to drop the speed limit and you and your wisdom can decide the number, but I will absolutely pay for every freaking sign. Now, do I want the whole road posted? You know, I'm kind of selfish. Morton Common Road, starting at Raymond's house maybe or a little further down where I used to live. 30, I'll settle for 30, 25 would be great. On my road, South Hill, starting at my house, told you I was selfish, 25 or 30. Those two, now if anyone else complains or has and they want some signs, again, I will crowdfund them. They can't be that expensive. You simply get, oh, by the way, I radically thank you guys in your house and Sasha for being here, period.  I appreciate it.  I don't care about any regulation. Anyways, I appreciate it. And also, I can't tell you how much I admire Martin Cameron. You get tired of hearing that. I was out walking my dogs at like six o'clock Sunday morning and I said, hey, Martin, what are you doing? He goes, I'm inspecting the roads. I'm looking, I'm inspecting the roads. And the other day I called him and said, Martin, that's really dusty up here. Oh yeah, John, I think it is. And he came up two days later and spread the chloride. Anyways, so I just wanted to be positive about those two things, but really, new signage. I don't know. John, do you really think putting signs up without enforcement is going to solve anything? You know, believe it or not, it's a start. No, and my wife doesn't either.  I think it makes a difference and you can put up some orange tape. In fact, you know, where I drive up in Playfield, they've changed the speed limits and stuff. And in Wayfield, and they tack a couple of yellow arrows, I think it will help. And really, this is just phase one of my passion.  But I got to know them. They know me. He's done this year. If Sam is, yeah, it's too bad. But the point is something, Ray. No, the answer's no, but something, you know. I mean, we can't even get in the sound of the time for this to not scroll. Now, why do we need to contract if we're tax payers on Washington County? That's their policy.  I'll go there, next. Seriously, that's cool. Well, I think you have a point, but so there is, there has been concern in certainly last year we decided we need to start addressing this on what we had said. So that's why we met with Lieutenant White last fall and asked what would be, how do we get, so they were hiring more people to go to the academy, officers coming out in the spring and they were supposed to be a number of people available. And so we had put a budget number of 20,000 that everyone in the town, well, it was an article and it was overwhelmingly supported by the town. So it showed us that people are certainly in tune with this and when we talked about it at town meeting it was about more traffic control than anything. And unfortunately, and Travis has been in here asking a couple of times about it because he lives on the other side of the mountain and I think they probably cruise by his house. We just haven't had both the sheriff, Sam and Lieutenant just don't have the people to provide, I'll get right to you, sir, and so on. So if anyone has solutions and maybe Mr. Portis has some. We dealt with this in Dr. Barry. The police will come but if your roles aren't legally posted they're not going to patrol. They need to be legally posted. You have to have the right signage out there. Well, that's a whole nother factor that was brought up before. And they have to be legal. You have to have it. You have to be the right place. Breakaway post. It costs the fortune. Dr. Gray did that. Yeah, I believe all our costs. It costs the fortune. And they got to be posted at every intersection. Every intersection. And so many distance apart. I believe we've done that. Well, they won't, because Sandhill came himself to Dr. Gray and the roles weren't legally posted. And he says until it's legally posted we're not going to patrol because people are going to fight it because people are in the law. But even if you have someone just there, just a presence will slow people down. Yeah, although if you give them a ticket, they can beat it, but at least it will slow them down. The other thing is we're about one of those machines that has people's speech. We're just speech machines. Oh, the radar. The radar machines are important. Those work. Don't do it. I was going to tell you. I thought they were going to bring one out. But they prefer to sheriff and then the state. But maybe that's something we've been proud of. Yeah, it's called Trader. This catalog I have has all that stuff. And I guess at one point in Montpelier, this is nothing new that had the same problem. So the city of Montpelier went to buy one. And it was like 35,000 bucks. Two or three of the maintenance guys got together. They built one. And it worked like the top for like 8,000 bucks, 400 bucks. So that's what they use. But apparently those work because people, especially in the village and stuff, they said, well, I probably should be going slower here. We, a few years ago, put in flashing signs in the village here. And the residents have noticed that those have helped. And I think it's a lot of the times people don't realize how fast they're going. That's true. And there are people out there speeding that are doing it. Just trying to get the point A to point B. quicker than they need to be. But there's more often, and even with the accidents, it's the common Joe going down the road who's going to realize that he's going 50 in a 35 and a kid runs out. So I think making people aware of what they're going certainly helps. I radically agree. And I've been thinking about mulling it over. Everybody probably in this room. So I'm not going there. But we all drive these big, heavy SUVs now. And it really is magic. You drive over potholes and you cruise along. You get the radio going. It's not like driving in an older car or whatever that is. We all have them. And they manage these roads better.    Everyone's got them. So now they, again, you're right, Tom. They don't feel like they're doing anything wrong. They're just magically empowered to go even faster because the roads are, the cars are different. And the roads are still, you heard me say about the road crew. The roads are still borderline maybe, but they don't feel as much with an SUV, in my opinion. So I think that's some of it too. And that goes for pavement also. Don't even get me going on that. But I think one thing that we need to put out there is we do need to call the state police whenever you see those things. And I will say for Lieutenant White and his crew there, whenever we have called them, I know every time we've had issues, they've come, it's fair more quick. So I think they're trying to do what they can with the manpower they have. You know, I don't think, I don't know the solution as far as getting more manpower. They're jobs, but it's a pretty tough job right now. And what we can do to impact these speeds, but certainly calling the state police, we will, I think we should look into one of those trade-ar things that really... And if you want a cheap one, I would call Montpelier. Don't call my guys, because they're corporate guys. They'll probably want a ton. But I'd call Montpelier if you had the time, see what their experience is. But I was a crossing guard out here with a bunch of moms and I would cross the Xiao kid, both of them including the one who passed away. And they're about the only ones who crossed.  So I went home and called the state police and I said, well, what you guys think of a crossing guard held out a stop sign just to slow people down? He was, Mr. Lynch, we cannot approve of that. He goes, get their plate number and the vehicle description and the occupants and we'll call them. And he said, once we call them, registered owner, whoever that is, they slow down. They take notes. They know someone has eyes on them. And Tom's right, that does work. All you need is the first three numbers. You don't need to, you know, XSF, dark green SUV with one person in it. How many of those in the state of Vermont? Not many. One in Brattleboro, one in Watesfield. Call the Watesfield person. You were noted exceeding the post of limit endangering children in the village of Moortown. Could you like back it down a little? Because this next call was not going to be this pretty. So Tom's right. You can call the stateys. But really, I can include everyone in this room. And I've called them many times. I call them at the beginning of school, August, September. I go, school's starting. Yes, sir. And I go, how about sending a unit out for 15 minutes sitting at the fire station? Could you do that? I think we can. You know. So yeah, some kind of presence. Yep. Jeff. She works in various cities, Baldwin. When they have a problem with the kids speeding, they take their permit away from them for school so they can't bring their car. And that's how you stop a lot of the kids. There's a lot around it, but. Get the license plate. I guess this is the fuel. We got to end. Yeah. We have to move on. But John, you brought again Travis as well. Thank you for putting this in front of us again. We can reach out. Why don't we reach out again to Catan White and Sheriff Hill. Does anyone know who's, or they have to run for sheriff, right? Or is there someone being appointed at this point? Because there's no. I don't know. He's, his term's up and I think they'll never get done. And somebody is running. So is people or something. I was told who it was. I just. Yeah. They were, I thought we were getting closer with them six weeks ago, a month or so ago, they had some people in town patrolling to check out the roads, if you will. And then that was, that was the last week or even actually. But any kind of presence, including an empty car, I'm good with. But, you know, just, I'm in them with COVID and everything. It's a nationwide thing up in the conferences. People are just rocketing along because they know that there's less enforcement, less traffic. And now they're free to go faster because there's not that congestion. But that's another topic. All right. Well, thank you, John. Thank you for listening. I'm glad you came in. Thank you for your passionate plea. We, we're hearing you and I wish you could. No, just being able to verbalize it and like, you know, and I'll do my end. I'll call them every now and then. Now that school's, I think it'll be a little mellower, but still, you know, there'll be plenty of kids up and down the sidewalks and swimming and cramies. But I'll try to do my end at least once a month. Again, a little rundown, cup of coffee sitting there.  I talked to the guy in Waitfield once, Washington County.  I just want them to slow down. And I don't think he's barely written a ticket. But that's okay. Yeah, the young guy. Oh no. See, I had a ride along with Peter Listowski. Oh, you did? Yeah. And he, in essence, does the same thing. Yeah. Like just wanting people to slow down. Yeah. And that's all I want. I don't want people to get tickets. No, we appreciate it. And thanks for the comment on the road crew. Yeah, thanks for your hard work. We agree we have a great road crew. Actually, our employees in the town here in the office and on the road. We're very fortunate all the volunteers we have. We have a lot of our planning commissions. Yeah, great. We're lucky we got a good people in town. I know. We switched houses. But we're so glad we stayed in more town. I mean, that was one of our things. But we're so happy to stay here. Yeah. Now what's up? What are you doing? Oh, she's pissing. She is so busy. She has me working for her. That's how busy she is. I don't know if I tune you from a, whatever, Petaluma. But I'm learning. Good. Take it easy, John. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Good to see you. Right? It's back now. Hi, Sasha. Oh, I've got a couple of people who are sorry. You guys are going to watch this board if you receive people that, oh, yeah, sorry about that. We're trying to get in. And then they call me and say, you didn't mind me getting in. Just John, so. Yeah, there was someone that was serious about it. John, did you make it in? Who's the other guy with the 6584 number? Just, that must have been John. All right. So now John has entered the meeting as well. Jeff, why don't you kind of roll up or pull up to the desk? John, we're at, uh, we've got speaking. So we have Jeff Portress, uh, is that him? Yeah, uh, from the fire district in Duxbury. And, uh, step on here on as well. Thank you. You're here. Got better? Yeah, we go. As far as we know, unmuting things will work. Travis, you can pull up. Is it a little bit of a little, just, just. You don't have to sit in the back. You're sure you're trying to roll away on yourself. It's too much to put it in and lock them in. That's the same thing we have. There should be a lock on them. So you're not pushing yourself around a little bit. So Jeff, what's going on? Uh, from the Duxbury-Martin fire district. It's actually moving in this month. I moved out of town from Duxbury. I moved away in town last June. I gave the fire district a year to figure out what they want to do with it. At her annual meeting, nobody ran for any positions. So our lawyer says we needed to contact Duxbury and Mortown to see if you guys want to take it over. Which I already know the answer to both Duxbury and Mortown. It's not feasible. And we're going to end up giving it to Waterbury. And if they don't want it, we're going to sell it. But it affects 50-something customers in Mortown. It's 50 or 60 customers in Mortown. Cobb Hill, that whole corner, Gallagher Acres, is fed by us. We buy our water from Waterbury and sell it. And we also cover the school in Duxbury all the way to Townclair's office. All right. It's not a moneymaker. No. Does it sound like it though? No. So our lawyer says we need to contact Mortown and Duxbury. And I go to Duxbury next week. And so from us, you're looking whether we want to buy? Is that what you? Well, like the lawyer said, if you want just to keep the Mortown part, then you guys would be have to take care of all that. Waterbury does our building for us right now. Whether they would do it for you guys, you would have to make a contract with them for them to do all the building. Right. And we take care of all the maintenance. Whenever there's water line breaks, they come down to our pocket. So then it would come out of your pocket and say to Duxbury, and that's what would happen. So the feasible way we think is just to let Waterbury take it over. Yeah. If they've been doing the building for life only something years. And I've done all the maintenance. I don't want to do it anymore. And there's nobody else in the fire district that can do it either. Now there's actually nobody on it. But the lawyer says they can stay on it until we decide what they're going to do with the fire district. So that's why I'm here. Yeah. Do you want to ask a question? Is this for fire hydrants? I don't really understand it. It's water. Thank you. Thank you. We certainly, CrossFit Rock School is fed by Waterbury Water, which is sold by the Duxbury Martel Fire District to the school. So the fees or the income you get from that doesn't cover the cost of it? Is that what you're saying? It does. And it doesn't. It doesn't. Yeah. We just had two water main breaks and three, about eight feet of fire last year. It cost us $30,000 to fix it. Well, we haven't had any water main breaks in 25 years of owning it. So the system shouldn't have any breaks until you hit it 50 to 100 years. But now we're looking at the ductile cast iron pipe is getting thin. And then we come to find out that with bad cast iron 25 years ago and the company that put it in or sold it to us went out of business because of it. And we're stuck with it. So this is new stuff to me. So I don't really know. To me, it doesn't seem like it's not worth it. It's not really worth it for you to take it over because you're looking at 50 customers. Yeah. And Duxbury has a school. So they're the ones who would actually get help federally in whatever business school. Yeah.  Okay. All right. But yeah, I don't think this is anything that we need to maintain or get into. John, you've been around for a while. What's your experience with this stuff? You're new to John. Never had any experience with this type of thing. So I don't know what to say about it. I mean, there's a lot of work involved. It just sounds like a lot of work. And it sounds like a thing. I appreciate you put the time and the answer. Would there be? Is there any advantage to us holding it? Yeah.  So if we don't take it over, does that mean it's no longer going to be used? No. It'll still be used. Like somebody needs to still maintain it, but it may not be more town paying for it. As of right now, we're trying to get it to Waterbury. Hopefully they're hearing this. You're going to hear it now. Yeah, much better. They've been doing all their milling and all that water testing for 25 years. Seems like an ultimate choice at Waterbury to keep it over. I walk away in the next month. In the June, I'm done. Tired, huh? No, I'm done. I gave the year, my year. I sold my house in Dr. Berry. June 27th. June 27th. So something needs to be done before I leave. Yep. Because I still got some stuff to fix. But there's actually nobody left out of the convention committee. There's only just two members. One works for UPS, the other guy's 83 and legally blind. If Waterbury didn't take it over, would they just turn off the vows and say, sorry, we're trying to make this a worser? No. Our lawyer is looking at selling it to somebody if Waterbury doesn't want it. Okay. And that could take two, three years to do so. The chance of people being without water. It'll never be without water. Not for that. Okay. It's just somebody to make. So we're just going to jump in and pick it up? Yeah. As of right now, I ask you three people on the convention committee that make all the decisions. So how do we, I just turn over ownership or get away, walk away from this? You don't have any ownership in and out. So right, I guess all I'm going to do is say no, we don't want nothing to do with it. And that right there is good enough for me. All right. What do you guys think? I think that we should just walk away from it at this point. Kelly? Yeah. John. All right. So before we start, we're walking away. So I make a motion. So it's official. I move to, just like we're going to turn and walk away from the Duxbury Moretown Fire District, allow it to go to Waterbury or whoever it's the next owner. I'll second that. All right. Any further discussion? All in favor? All right. All right. All right. All right. There you go, Jeff. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. Yep. Thank you for coming in. Appreciate your time. Yeah. Place is the right thing. You're doing the right thing coming in. Can you explain it well? You've got to do what you've got to do. There's, you've got to be legal in this. Yep. Follow. And Jeff, before you leave, I wanted to say thank you. You've done a lot of years of doing some really good work for us on the hydrant system. That's a lot of work. I know Stefan. No, in the sense that he would explain this big. Yeah. I think he always wanted this big. Sorry, Stefan. It's all right. Have a good one. I'll do that. Thank you. Thank you. Grab mine in the back of my car. All right. So we are in the reports, communications. Sasha, let's go ahead and start with you. There's been a request for usage of the rec fields for a graduation party on June 11. And this is the first request I've had. So I don't know if you guys charge. Do you require insurance? I think we need to check with the insurance carrier on that. The private priority? Yes. Three graduates are graduating at Halloween. Are they from North Carolina? North Carolina residents. Yeah. I'm not inclined to charge anyone for it. Just as long as everything's left the way it was received. But there may be a fee for some type of insurance or some waiver or something like that. So if you can just follow through that. And then we should post front porch form like a week before and maybe a day before that whatever area it is, the gazebo probably they're going to use and whatever sort of being reserved for a private party. Should we put some sort of client limit? Like no music after, they have a band and this could go on. Yeah. I think that's probably a good idea. Probably 11 o'clock or 10 is probably fine. We have shelters and people right around the neighborhood. So you know if things could shut down or get quiet after 10, maybe they can still be around but just, you know, to a dull war. I sent you guys a letter that I composed for Mr. Hatch to explain what CAI explained to me with this. Yeah. I saw that nice job where I met, I was wondering if you couldn't just get CAI or themselves to write it out, put it on their letterhead and send it because it's there. Really their responsibility. That was plopping our hands. That was from last year. I remember the incident. I didn't, I don't remember. I sent it through email last Friday, I think. Yeah, sometime before that. Chuck, have you agreed to be part of the website questions? Do you guys want a specific committee done or just set up a reason to call? I don't know if you, Chuck, and maybe Sherylen or anyone around this table if they want to get involved. But I think the key is Chuck and maybe even Chuck with, what the hell's his name, JB as well. Maybe there's things that he would, some of the other questions you should ask or things. And then why don't you go ahead and do that and kind of head that up and get that done as soon as possible about the zero in on something and get that completed sooner than later. Ron Shem's rates have gone up to from $100 to 180. Oh, from 100 to 180? Yeah. And... So we're going to use him too often? Yeah. That's, um, that breaks significant. It is. He's very good to us, though, as far as donating. Yeah. I think we can get a lot of hours that we don't have to pay for. Andy Ellis sent an email regarding the road race that they have in August and they just want permission to go through and walk down. Mark, do you see that? Just so... It's on the pile of signage papers this time. I'll take a look at that and just want to make sure that the road crew is ordered up. Um, Ethan Swain sent an email to check in with the animal road crew guys. Yeah, we have an old business pending. We did that. We can do that. And then there's some group cuts in that pile. And that's it. All right. I'm just looking for people who have any questions to ask me. Thanks, Sasha. Ray, what about... What do you have? Um, a lot of the stuff that was in our business. Okay. The trails and the recovery app. All right. That's fine. Callie, do you have anything for communications? The new mower seems to be doing a really nice job. Is it? It is. Good. Yeah, it was mowed Thursday when the school did the circus and we went. It was nice. It was really good. Well, good to hear. I know they were anxious to get it. I think they got it last Monday. So hopefully it'll last for a while. Step on. You have a step on? You're still on? Yes, I am. How was the mowing? Good. It's, uh, it's definitely, you know, seems to have more power and just kind of is better for what we have for fields and hills and such. Very good. Well, I'm glad it's working out. All right. So I had, uh, John, happy yourself. I know you're on the phone. Well, I just, as I have lost, I just might imagine, I lost power. So I'm on the phone now. And unfortunately, I'm going to lose my phone out of charge and just about out of charge. We'll see what you want to quit, John. That you were asking so much about what, you were discussing the new tractor? Yeah, they just received that. It's not a big deal. Don't waste your, uh, limited time on that. Anything that you have for communications? Yeah, just that I attended the, um, the first, uh, clean water advisory meeting, first one for quite some time, because they had a new person, a new senior planner, um, Ryan Boyd, and I know that Ray has at least met and spoke to your phone. So anyway, potentially the meeting consists of just reviewing the last couple of years that, uh, I've been working on. Um, um, then the other thing is that, uh, John's not doing it, correct? That's right. Uh, Donald and I also had another meeting with Joyce Manchester and they were, were moving forward with trying to get those blinking lights, or at least the ones that moved down to, uh, White Packard. Um, but I guess that's got to be permitted, um, because the change, the change in the location, well, who, uh, permanent was going, John, who told you it needed to be permanent, permanent and who you, yeah, who's the permanent holder?  Well, I mean, we're, we're the permanent holders. Right. But I believe since it was set up, since it was set up for the state groups to school, the location was chosen for that reason. So, um, I know that, uh, Joyce was going to be getting in touch John Kaplan from the state regarding that. All right. Yeah, I think when we did that, I, it was really nearly where it wasn't all that specific. We walked out there. We were with, you know, the group from the state and also from, uh, the safe rooms and just kind of put it there. So I don't think there's any scientific, um, reason why it was put there. So I don't think we need to get too busy or too crazy with. Okay. Well, yeah, hopefully there won't be, yeah, hopefully there won't be an issue. The other, the other thing we talked about was the crosswalk. I can be telling the sidewalk project at least after a while. Um, you need to get those crosswalks taken care of. So, um, um, yeah, I believe it's Ian to Goudis. I believe it's, uh, in charge of that. So we were hoping to have, um, again, Joyce was going to reach out to him and hopefully we were going to be able to meet. And, you know, so we can talk about where the crosswalks would need to go. And I'm hopeful that we can do like they did in Waitsville, they're putting a cement slab, um, like opposite. Where, where in Waitsville, John, did they do that? Um, actually, the one we, we killed is called Crosswalks. Right. But that's, that is actually, it's just not a slab. It, there's a whole walk there, John. There is a sidewalk there. It's, it's not cement, but it's, it's a designated sidewalk that goes out to, um, the brewery. And it's part of its boardwalk. And there's a part of it is, um, a crushed rock or stone or something. So there is, it just doesn't know to a, a slab. Well, even though it's not concrete, okay. So even though it's not concrete, like a concrete sidewalk, it's still considered sidewalk. Right. Because I think it's all the dimensions. I mean, we don't have anything across. If you're thinking across from the store, um, still just kind of goes to nowhere, um, there. Well, then technically we wouldn't even be able to have one at the school. Well, technically now, because that is taken out, that is correct. But, you know, I think, um, rather than me making those decisions or what I know, we should have the guy from the state, like I said, come here. Yeah. Um, and maybe there's waivers if we are doing sidewalks, uh, in the future or something. But, um, it would be nice to have something there to perhaps slow traffic down. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. So continue on with, uh, Joyce. Yeah. Okay. Anything else, John? And, uh, just, uh, moving along, it, uh, looks like it's, uh, uh, David Stapleton's going to be the planning commission by default, uh, breath on the, um, town forest. Hmm. The town forest management plan. Okay. And, um, Ray, you're going to, you're going to participate too, correct? Uh, okay, I guess you might have talked about that. I don't remember that, John, but I could probably participate too. Okay. Okay. And, um, I spoke with Mandy and she's on board school and, um, so, um, Mike Brown wanted to get going on early in June. So we'll be having a meeting, uh, quite soon on that. You guys set that? Thank you, John. Okay. All right. So I, um, I've been hearing from a few residents that they needed, uh, uh, stuff put down for dust. I haven't really heard much from, from anyone, um, and I've talked to Martin and they're, they're working on that. So they did this past week. So I think we're good there. Um, let's go ahead and improve the name. Oh, yeah, actually, actually thinking about town forest, the, we did not, the last meeting, we did not, uh, decide on, um, where the funding we come to pay for, um, Mike Brown's fee. Okay. Mike, there's going to be around 1800. All right. Well, I think we can, um, just use ARPA funds for that. That's, it would be considered something that's traditional or something that town would be spending money on. So I think we can, all right. Okay. Good. All right, John. Uh, so let's go ahead now, uh, approve this, the minutes for, um, May, they seconds. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of May second. Second. Cali seconds that. Thank you, John. All in favor of a ride. Okay. All right. All right. All right. All right. Thank you. All right. All right. So let's go ahead and we have, uh, insurance from employees. Sasha, this is something you want to talk about for us. I, she was going to talk to him. She told you what. John, did you, um, work with Cherylin on this? What did I do? Did you? No, no, I did not. All right. So, um, this is going to, so I think Cherylin, I didn't talk about it. I didn't know whether someone had, um, worked with it. But so for the select board here, I don't need to call it here. Um, so there's a proposal for additional, uh, life coverage for the employees. Right now they get, uh, $10,000 life insurance and, uh, $10,000, um, accidental death benefit. That's paid by the town. That is partly, that's what they would like. So that's what they would like partly. So as an employer, we could buy that for $151, uh, per year for the six employees. For all six, for $151 for $10,000, right? So, um, it seems like a reasonable request for $150 when we get $10,000 life and $10,000, um, accidental death benefit. And so, go ahead, John.  Right. And then that allows them to buy additional insurance. And then add the tender. And add it, depending on it, I think it was $25. So, um, is everyone okay with that? Yeah, that's pretty reasonable, I think. Yeah, that sounds fine. And it's not, I mean it's not a bunch, but, uh, you know, $10,000, $20,000 and so on passes away or something that could make a difference in someone's life. So, um, I'd go ahead and move to spend $151.20 cents for the year for the six employees for accidental, accidental death and life insurance. One second, yeah. All right. Probably you should abstain from the scope. All in favor, go right. Aye. Aye. Aye. All right. Thank you on that. So, that is passed. So, should you go? And we also can, um, purchase pet insurance, is that it? The pet insurance, it just needs to go into the town entity, unless you guys want to give it to that event there, but I'm hoping that it's reasonable. Right. So, it can be available to the employees, but we're not going to provide pet insurance. Right. All right. So, you're okay with it being under the more town umbrella? Yeah, sure. Well, is it, you don't have any pets here for the town pets? None that we publicly named anyways? All right. Very good. So, let's go. Yes, John? Yeah, I was going to say, I'll make a motion, um, that we, um, offer every voluntary benefit to the parents. Okay. Yeah. Nice. I mean, it'll be, it'll be just like, it'll be just like, uh, they do not want that, but it would be a voluntary benefit. Yep. No, I think it's probably good to put it on, uh, a motion like that. I second. Ray seconds, all in favor of what I, I, Ray, John. Thank you. All right. What do we have? Anyone have any new business they want to discuss tonight? Well, I just wanted to, uh, hit back on, going back around to the speeding thing, um, you know, whether we should look into, uh, purchasing some of those solar, you know, solar signs with the flashing lights.  But, you know, I don't know what else we can do other than try to do some more warning like that, you know, or look into purchasing the trailer mount or something like that. But I, I don't know, uh, who wants to pursue that or who should pursue that? But I think we'll have Sasha pursue that. But she would call, I think you should call Lieutenant White and get his opinion on what they have or where they have it. They call him up through the very police that John was talking about. Um, and then just public safety equipment. There's going to be plenty of, uh, not plenty of that out there, but there's going to be some vendors off that type of equipment. And then we can take a look. Yeah. I think something portable that we can move around that makes people aware of what they're doing. I mean, yeah, it's just like a lot. Watch people, honest people out and letting people know what they're going.  And, um, again, that's something that we could probably use some of that art from money on for something like that as well. Because that would be something that's traditional, purchased by a town or a police department. So maybe continue to buy some of the equipment that could benefit, but benefit all. Yeah. Because I don't have the same thing I have no freaking clue what else to do. I play chicken with people. I've literally been walking the dog. I put him on the side of me and I have played chicken. We don't want to do that. We're up with this trailer. You need to be careful. You get yourself killed. You know, that's saying dead riot that you don't want to be right to that. It works though. Well, you know what?  I mean, sometimes appealing with personal insurance people, you know, they're a bit of chronic. So let's do it. I'm sure I have spent on our roads and I really try. I try not to. I'm very careful not to, um, but I can have, um, but it's those people that are chronic that do it all the time. I've noticed walking, especially on our roads. It's the same people. And I can, you know, maybe again, be careful.  But don't put yourself in any danger because it's just not worth it. Um, so Ray, you had some old business. I did. Um, so, uh, started the recovery yet. So the committee didn't meet. We met last Thursday and, uh, basically, I believe we're meeting the next Wednesday and hope to have some recommendations to the select board, the first meeting in June, particularly regarding the fiber, a CB fiber money. Let me set this down. I mean, it's going to be an ongoing process all the way. We can get all the, all the data, but at least, uh, we can do something. So I guess expect on the first meeting in June, we may be able to make a decision on some of the five. Okay. Yes. I know you have a, uh, maybe five. That's another mess. I just, uh, the legal trails, um, you know, I know we have some issues to tackle. Uh, I'm, I'm really feeling a lot better now. I'll be able to get into it more. And certainly Travis, I know you're very interested in it. No, I'll keep you in the loop as far as what goes on, what I'm thinking. And, you know, welcome. You're welcome to participate. You know, I definitely want to be part of that. Yeah.   And, uh, it's taking on many more. So I'll, I'll keep them loose. You know, I'm going to get into it more and try to get this upright. So when you're talking legal trails, are you talking, um, trying to get a plan for the, uh, we know at least the two of them want to have this year. And, and also, and I think Denise maybe on board there, uh, you know, Denise and, uh, from Cobb Hill, I mentioned about, uh, the town being more, more proactive and, and getting, um, our town road policy out to people that are buying on classroom roads. Well, yeah. So that's why I think, I think there's two, two issues, there's legal trails. And there's also road for policy and trail policy. Yeah. So on that, I think that you and I and Martin should, uh, sometimes within the, hopefully the next week, uh, if you're available and then I, Martin, as long as he's working, we can work around that, but should get out to Cobb Hill. Yeah. Let's take a walk. Um, and I think I want to get, or I'd like to get, uh, the planning commission involved as well. And then we need to sit, we need to sit down and figure out how we can word something on that, whether it's, uh, road for policy. I want to get something that it's not, uh, that doesn't prohibit people from building on these areas, but it also needs to address what the roads are going to look like. And they're there. So we have for emergency, um, and who's responsibility for all those. I know the policy now it's fairly clear, but I think we need to expand that, uh, to properties that are being built and, and such. I mean, we do it probably certainly later. So, you know, we can get together for the next week, us just walk it. So we have an idea.  I spoke to another gentleman that lives out, um, that has property out on, uh, Coghill from Connecticut.   So, um, you know, we need to get that certainly done and make it equitable for both the town and the people that are the homeowners or the landlords. Um, I don't want to add to that. Oh, sure. Our current town plan down in 2016 very easily spells out on the contrary of not allowing or updating these roads. Um, you know, that's our town plan in place currently. And now if we're going to go with the complete opposite direction of what the town plan is dramatically in a short period of time, um, that's kind of going against what the town plan already has in effect. Title 19 already has an effect and our zoning currently already has an effect. So are we just going to go out in our own, all right, is a select board going to go out in their own free will and just go completely against the green of what are, what, what is already common law, town plan, and just, uh, policy. That's, that's not what I'm saying, Travis. That's why I said I wanted to make sure that we had dates, stapled entities that share the plan of submission there. Right, yes. But what I want to do is, is upgrade our road for policy. And it may not be possible to do this, but I would like to put something in place that we can improve these roads or do something and allow people to develop their properties without having to change the town plan. And it may not be possible, Travis. I don't know. I'm not the expert on that. Well, it's just already spelled out in our town plan. It's already spelled out in our class four and trail policy. Currently that is not being followed by a select board because there was somebody in here last select board meeting, uh, saying that a class B class four road is being worked on by the town and on, according to our policy, a class B class four road is not suitable to be ever worked on by town's equipment. So this is where I'm running into conflict. Martin is the guy that decides whether the road can be worked on with the equipment or not. And that's what distinguishes between an A and a B, whether it can be or cannot be. So in roads can be upgraded and changed from B to A and quite frankly go from A to B or A to a trail, sorry, not A to a trail, but A to B. So yeah, you know, with split hairs like that, please don't. Well, I know because we have a policy and it's already listed as a B class four road. So update your paperwork before moving forward with doing procedures of grading these class four roads or Martin working on these class four roads because right now it's currently going against our policy. Again, we are in charge of the policy. He's the guy that just helps determine whether it's an A or B. If he finds that, all right, I can get the greater of a piece of equipment. And now they're an A then. And we do it. Great, I understood that. But, uh, you know, upgrading these roads is an awful expense to the taxpayers in Martin. And, you know, in statute, it's basically our, we have mentioned before, we, I mean, I mean, the select board has mentioned before if they want to upgrade these roads, they can on their own, their own price tag. But it's a long process. I think, you know, that's what has been explained to them before.  You already know that. It's fine. You know, and I appreciate the time that you're giving me to speak right now. Thank you. No, also, anyways, we need to get together. We need to do some work. We need to do some work. Yeah, yeah. The whole intent is to, is to make the place, the town, inviting, livable, and hopefully attract more people into the town. But in doing that, they also need to know. It needs to be clearly explained to them. Right. Like the rules. What the rules and what their expectations are, which I think the disconnect maybe is not in the town or they don't know where to look or people, realtors, whatever, saying, Oh, no, it's fine. This, they do this and they do that. No, I don't know what happens is they know the rule. They build many ways and then they want the town to upgrade the roads. And those are the things that we need to make clear that it's not going to happen. We're also, if they're operating to a certain point, where does the town start maintaining what we do? Or are we willing to maintain ditches or such like that? Those are the type of things that we need to kind of smooth out a little bit. I agree. I'm Denise. Hi. Not to drag this conversation out, but I have maintained the legal trail going to my house for 1996 with no expectation that the town would do anything. But the town continues to grant building permits to people to build off of the legal trail. And that's fine. But also they haven't, they, you know, they, there haven't been any policies or ordinances clearly stating that if that person that builds off of a legal trail destroys it and does not put it back to a reasonable condition or the condition before they built it, you know, they can't just destroy it just to put a house out there and then call the town and say, oh, I can't get to my house because it's a mess and So we understand and that's why I've suggested that me and Ray and our road commissioner get out there take a look and then figure out our, even our road permits that we're giving to people to make sure that we're including the simple things, although it does state some of that, we need to be more clear. And again, expectations down the road with these permits. And again, that's why I think it's important that we get planning commission involved because if this is going to be a thing where we're continuing to grant permits for homes that are on these these class 4 roads or trails, it needs to be something, some policy or something that they are that the roads are being maintained or something for emergency. Right. Emergency, fire, ambulance, state police, all of the services that you need to have a house. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I do, I have spoken with the Burganos from Connecticut and they basically want to build a house in the midst of a swamp. They bought 60 acres of wetlands and there's no good way to get to it. So they want to upgrade the road that goes past my driveway. But in doing so, they risk destroying the road that's already there. So that's why they're interested. We don't know if that is the actual road. Has it been surveyed properly by the town? That would be another question. I don't know. I'm just merely stating that they have a vested interest because they bought a piece of land last year. They want to build a house and whatever else out there. It is in the middle of a swamp in the middle of a protected wetlands. There's no way to get to it without putting material in to make a road that can be traveled on. And that is going to potentially destroy the existing road in doing so. Yeah, very good. Thank you. We currently do not have a map in this town office anywhere printed map or even on the website that is a V-Trans most recent map. We have a map that's on the website currently that I'm really astounded. Where did it come from? There's no date on it. It's not an official V-Trans map. It says planning V-Trans map or something. And it's a completely bogus map. It's like I've even been to Central Mont Regional Planning Commission talking to their GIS people and they're completely mind boggled where this map ever came from. So if we could at least get the official map in our records here in the town office even in the city it's not there. 2016 is the most recent map of V-Trans which shows these legal trails clashed for roads. The current map that's on the web page does none of the above. And it's it's just mind boggled where this map ever ever came from and I've been chasing that for 12 years now. So are you saying these maps right there? I don't know if that's the one on the web page. The one on the web page is a completely bogus map. There's no date on it. It's not an official V-Trans map. It is a planning something something map that came from probably since Vermont Regional Planning Commission, but I cannot trace where this map ever came from. All right, Travis. Thanks. That was just yeah I was just out of the point there. That would help some other people probably know what's going on. Yep. All right. What else do you have on multiple business right? So the parking lot drainage project. Yes. When we met with the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission back in March it was my understanding that they were going to have this project out permitted to a contractor that it would be built this year. So and during the time that I've been dealing with this need thing there was an RFP that went out but the RFP is only it's not for a contractor it's for another management consultant to oversee the parking lot project. So this RFP that's out right now they're getting RFPs that are doing the 18th from engineers or consultants and then they're going to award a award to them June 2nd and then from that point that consultant is going to put this project out for bid which really puts us not into the construction this year it's not going to happen I don't think. So I try to talk to Brian I think his name is Brian the new project manager and I called him and I sent him an email and I haven't heard the response but I thought that's what we've done before I mean that was all the work that was done to get to this point. That's what I thought I really was and I take responsibility for not looking more closely at this RFP that's out now I just assumed that we were looking for bids from contractors that regional planning commission was going to manage the project like they said right back in March but now it's completely different and I'm completely back with the whole process but then we're spending a lot of money and we're going to be doing no-hand service. Yeah and I'm really really concerned now because the whole pipe like the drainage pipe and everything like 8 inch SDR 35 was eight dollars a foot last year it's 38 dollars a foot right now so I mean this whole project is going to be could potentially be well over what we have budgeted even if we get to build it this year so I don't know I'll try to get more answers but just giving you an update that it's not what I had thought I appreciate it. Well keep pushing and you know ask for those questions yeah but it might we might be better off even building it next year anyways yeah you know maybe there won't be uh the prices that we're seeing now. Yeah. That's amazing. It is. Well look at what I'm wondering about 100 and about 80 percent. Yeah. What else you got to break? That's enough. Kelly? So we got a couple other things um zoning administrator we were close to hiring someone um this last meeting I wasn't here and so that that person ended up withdrawing his application as well because he worked for the state and there was going to be some conflict um since then Sasha was able to work and we got an extension with Claire to continue on for another month um faced and just recently advertised for a zoning administrator as well they had hired one remember two months ago we were asked if maybe we could share her and obviously that didn't work out so well um but maybe we should get together with Face as we talked about doing that and then we talked about maybe working with Hinesburg as far as um trying to hire someone together so CDRPC has um said she could put together some kind of informational meeting they've done some of that before two towns working together and hiring someone so Sasha could you get a call between um CDRPC Bonnie Dave Stapleton um in myself um sometime this week just find out from Bonnie when she's available then go to Dave and then me as long as I get pretty flexible I mean I mean as long as it's trying not to be a new time because I was one of my busiest um in that it was a couple hours but we'll try to discuss how we can possibly put something together between us and Face and you know maybe there's something there that we can work with becomes a full-time job and there's benefits and that might attract someone yeah you know we need to figure something out um uh website Sasha you're working on that so we got a plan there um the police we're gonna we're gonna reach back out to both Sam Hill and um Lieutenant White see if there's any movement there or any suggestions um and so the other thing or a couple more things we had that request from Ethan Swain he was the guy that had uh it was the tax um almost that declaration that was missed um you had Cheryl Inwood she looked into that that is um we weighed them before you know we've done a couple different times um but I think the question we had originally was this this guy's accountant or was this him I guess you know there's no telling but I would because we have kind of set that precedent I would think that we would do that for this gentleman as well um and it was a 548 dollar and 30 cent late but late fee file for the home homestead declaration so did that 548 dollars did that go to the delinquent tax collector no that because it's a homestead declaration that came to the town okay all right it's not up something that Craig had got otherwise we would actually have the rights that to weight it down so it's something that we received so it's just returning it it's not costing us anything um if it's not costing us anything I I'd make a motion to you know return the money to keep this one all right uh I said Cali seconds up all in favor of what I like it's just the three of us yeah all right last thing I have at home business um road crew stuff it's the um going to 40s towers so I'm sure you want to start as soon as possible so do you want to start that next week or started the first week in June yeah I don't see why we started this week all right so we're gonna let them know and have it go through August so they'll come back um in September the schools back then that's probably a good idea right to have I'm just thinking in terms of the amount of time that they have to do work on the road and what they can do for projects when they're working for 10s instead of 5 8s in terms of like setting up any traffic things they gotta set up it takes them the time to do that the time to tear it down no that's why that's why we have gone to that is to allow them to do that but in September they still have like they're still good working time to in essence I'm just thinking about pushing some of the work on the roads like if they can have even into October to kind of do some more of that extra work get some more work done on the roads I don't know if there's any extra work done my I don't think I don't like that it is when the school's in session I think we should have someone here uh mostly the five days a week what could we say that we'll go far to four 10s till Labor Day and if Martin needs to go through they come in and request that there's something like that but I think we should yeah try to stick with that Labor Day all right weekend without working yeah I mean I don't think it really matters with the buses but well it's really not but just if there's just but there's a bad weather day whether day you want have guys there and it's a good benefit to have I mean it's but again they're still working in 40 hours so yeah right it's just the length of the time I mean by September days are getting shorter anyways you know it's getting harder and harder to work 10 hour days in September when you know they like that you know I think that I'm either favorite one to Labor Day and reviewing it if necessary at that time all right so yeah sounds good so if there's a need of after late day in the end of a big project they can Martin can come in and request that there's your problems with that do you think that's it aside from um signing off on anything that we had to sign off back in that pile with her cuts that George one I didn't know if you were talking about yeah that's what um we're gonna walk up there okay so we looked at it wouldn't we that so this is such a tiny insurance so on that road race they're not on the road all it just sounds like you're on 100 I think it's just 180 that's great talking about the big somebody on that one one of them is down below what are we doing the class three butter yeah jumping in and she's got another crop so the address 906 yeah it's what you have just um this is trucking the sander or there's gravel and there's trucking for Sean the shame you will all right so I'm gonna make motion to adjourn second then all the paperwork for that all right thank you