Mm-hmm, and we should be live hello everyone Welcome to this special episode of for the minions We're gonna be talking about the different heroes that predecessor and overprime have in common Then we're gonna piss everybody off by picking our favorites And we're also going to do polls in the chat so you guys can pick who you you think did them better And it's gonna be weird because these games are very different so the different implementations are strange jelly You have a question already Why is your chat fucked up? It'll be good whenever we get to the actual conversation Okay, and then also I I mean I I'm just gonna go out the gate and pick a hot and spicy pick right now Oh already we're just going out the gate Zina is better in predecessor hands down Zina's way better in predecessor. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Zina's garbage in OP compared to bread. It's always wild Jedi how you doing? Odd yeah, I'm I am doing wonderful I'm doing way better than my daughter who got her wisdom teeth all four of them pulled out today She is on the struggle train But I know real dumb now Their four wisdoms are gone, you know Right off the bat right there my mind is for wisdom F's in chat, dude. No, I'm doing great. I'm doing super good Excited to I said it in the in the pre-chat I said I'm having an adult beverage and I'm super excited to piss on the fan base of both these games But like in a fun way not an arc No, it's supposed to be an all good fun I hope that we manage to keep it more and good fun but I can't wait to talk shit about both and and hype up the ones that are deserving of so because I think there Are some really fun builds So we're going to go alphabetical order night the ones they have in common or accountants Decker Fing mail gadget Gideon grucks Howitzer Calari I'm Mario Lutenabelica Murdoch Muriel Narvash Rampage several expiros steel and the Fae Now for predecessor fans, unfortunately We're not going to be covering crunch Drongo or rector because they are not an overprime and overprime fans We will not be covering twin blasts Quang Shinbi revenant Aurora phase Sarath Wraith or Xena because they are not in predecessor and Xena That's gonna be an interesting conversation whenever we compare Xena to a huntress, but What was it? We're gonna go in alphabetical order and we're going to start with what I think is a pretty easy one Which is going to count us. Oh Okay. Oh, okay When he said easy one, I was like well this could go it could be lying here It could be like an easy one. It could be no, I Think this is a I think this is a pretty easy one You guys have seen that they they nerfed her in Fred at this last this last I think is warranted since FTM Well, you played her a little bit and you you were probably a lot more since FTM and I okay I think these nerfs are right on the money I'm gonna say this and this is not to derail too much But because I know we might want to talk about it in an actual full FTM I'm surprised they went after her early on and they still didn't take another glance at How it's her Timmy this wasn't a full patch. This was a this is a post release bug Like you see riot do all the time on China and champion releases for Lee Mm-hmm is post release patch of This person is over tuned out the gate. We're just quickly nerfing them before we do a full patch later adjusting everything around I think I think Personally personally, I think it's a hundred percent very easy This is this is a softball pitch predecessor just did her way Way better than overprime.  So is that a is that a gauge that we can use is how aesthetic Rampage wins Nobody has the ass the rampage has I'm sorry, I'm quick to agree with you. I've played both a lot I I do think that the predecessor version is Is it she feels more fluid in the kit to to execute? I don't know about visually necessarily, but I do think that the if we're talking just kit I think she's she's overall better in predecessor. I really really like even with the nerves I like how much healing and sustain she has I think that makes her a little bit more viable in a lot more of these team fights and stuff like that where she maybe can get in assassin a Survive possibly and get out, you know It's still depending on CC and all that stuff and how much she gets focused She might still get blown up when she goes in but I think those changes are in the right direction To focus her on being an assassin right because your your main source of stacks are from getting involved in getting Kills as fast as you possibly can And so I think if you're doing that and playing her in that way You're gonna see how much fun she is because you're gonna just blow everybody up But yeah, she I think she's great I wish that her her visuals were a little bit better like her e goes way farther out than the the wave of that red Blood or whatever leads you to expect because the blood it goes out is kind of initially fast And then it kind of slow dissipates, but it doesn't reach its full length the same time that you're taking damage from it So it gives a kind of a weird off I so I think if they update that and I actually gave that to Feedback to the devs and they said that they're gonna take a look at it and see if they can do something about it But that's just my initial feeling. What about you jelly? I'm predecessors count as a hundred percent I played a handful of games on overprimes count as specifically jungle, right? I'm not a big laner. I'm a jungler and I've played a handful of games as predecessors count as in the jungle and 100 times Count as feels better in predecessor in terms of like they were spot the Delay after her abilities. I talked about this with mangoes a little bit earlier The delay after her abilities is practically non-existent in Right that you cast one of your abilities and you the next one is coming out the second You press the button and that feels incredible. It feels like ability queuing without having ability queuing, right? Like it's it's a good way to circumvent that issue by just making the delay after cast next to nothing and Her Blink actually does something damage wise more so in the jungle than like count as blink in overprimes jungle is a waste of an ability You're actually losing damage by blinking to a jungle camp whereas in predecessor I believe it does three times damage to jungle camps to incentivize you to use it on jungle camps and so And it's really fast. It doesn't make you lose damage. It does a lot of damage by itself All in all, I think predecessors count as is just it's more fun to me I think it's one of its count as has been the thing that's making me want to play predecessor And I have never been a count as player Like that's its own facet But also that it's the thing drawing me into predecessor right now is like I'm if I can play count as jungle I'm so in like where do I sign and I think that's hugely beneficial for them Yeah, I think like jelly point out It's just the flow of the abilities that I think predecessor has done better than count as I like some of the changes that they made to like her ultimate giving Given a health back her E always giving you health back No matter if you kill a target or not It's kind of nice those are nice a little quality of life changes for but it's mainly that flow Like there's been so many times at overprime where I've dove on somebody unload my entire kit But my E didn't go off even though I know that I hit it some in Something I've noticed since I've been playing her so much if you fire her e-forward and then immediately pop a 180 The animation goes off it goes on cooldown does zero damage not even the minions It's like what the like there's a lot of weird things going on with her NOP also I timed it Absolutely perfectly to immune a gadget mine with shadow slip and it did not immune it Like I watched it blow I slowed the footage down and watched it blow up During my slip and it and it did not immune the damage and that's Poor shit that that's the fun of playing count as is the is to have those iframes on shadow slip Yeah, if you have those fun then I yeah, I think we all agree. It's predecessor chat seems to agree I think it was also that our predecessor Too fast off of it as I think what one of the benefits of predecessor to is the there's an ability Item in predecessor that allows her cool down for her ultimate to go to come down faster catalyst exactly And I think that makes her way more viable because you're able to possibly get multiple Ultimates off it in in a fight or maybe if they are prolonged fight possibly You know what I mean, but you're you start to get that and so then you can really be like boom Sustained boom sustained boom and you can really I mean granted this is more of a late game thing You're probably not going to do it early But it starts to really start to hyper and it makes her way more of a threat Whereas in overprime there is no item like that and so it's almost like you're punished a lot of times for going in Trying to assassinate somebody because you're just stuck there And if you get CC before you can cue you just die because she doesn't know with survivability whatsoever She has no like her right-click does a little bit of healing off of however many people she hits, but only if she kills Only if she kills the target, right?  Yeah, man Yeah, I've never heard man. He's be so surprised that I killed somebody. Yeah. Yeah That was an impressive uh series of events there Are you guys ready to move on from countess is there Hey, so it was an easy one Next up. I think this one's gonna be a little more difficult. Maybe not for a lot of people But uh, I have a weird take on this one. It's gonna be decker I think I talked better. Yeah All right, so you guys go ahead and discuss decker while I set up the poll in chat Asked for a third option. They're both great Or they both suck so maybe four items before I don't know I think it's uh, so decker is a weird one I I'm inclined to say that I like decker in overprime more interesting I Don't like her kit as much I think the predecessor kit is more fun In terms of just decker as a character But the way that the abilities cast in predecessor feel awful in comparison to overprime Like specifically the the ability everybody cares about stasis bomb Right that ability is so much better in overprime. It honestly carries this vote for me Yeah, it's the the kit and predecessor is super cool super fun. It's super like fun to use But when I use stasis bomb in predecessor, I hate my existence And it offsets all the all the kudos I give them about the kit Like so it's it's a close one for me, but I would say overprime Edges out decker for me on this one I Uh, and I think mangos is probably going to be the most subject matter expert on this one, but I I've played both I it's funny actually I wish both did something similar to each of them Like there's certain parts of the way that they designed their kits together that I'm like, okay If this was in this one, this would feel better. And if this was in this one I'm going to give it to predecessor and the reason why I give it to predecessor is I like that They took something that has been kind of a staple support and they put it in a new Attempted way. I love the rework.  Like I like that the the q is essentially infinite.    Uh, whereas overprime did Um, stasis bomb is supposed to pass through minions. It does not in Predecessor. I forgot about that. Yeah That is the one Fucking reason why I'm giving this to overprime Over predecessors stasis bomb doesn't travel through minions.   You know what I mean? um Yeah, attack 2000. Yeah, supposed to yeah, maybe not. Um It in a paragon it went through minions So that's not a guarantee that it's supposed to do that But like that's my memory of Decker is that it's one of the unique things of data, right? That like your stun passes through minions. So it's not safe It's not just an automatic safety net to just stand behind minions And it negates any range stun of this kind Right if you want a range stun that is theoretically stronger play nabash, right? His thunk is a straight line stun at a range, but I agree with you predecessors stasis bomb Feels like you need to get point blank range to use effectively Which then what's the point of having a almost infinite range queue if I Yeah, right those cobs man for those cobs if they are fun to hit. They are fun to hit I agree with you. I so that's why I said I think when I think about both of them And I haven't played nearly as much obviously as main goose hazard Or maybe people here in chat. I think though that there's parts where I'm like, oh man I wish they both kind of like worked together weirdly To make the perfect Decker because there's so much of both that are is really good Like in predecessor and this is again why I'm slightly leaning her slipperiness in pred is Amazing seeing it like I think one of the first times I saw her Doing some of the coolest things was when soul reaper was playing as her in in our content creator Early access He was doing some of the most aggressive Now he's soul reaper.  I'm just telling you and also It's a different place for the ability. It's the same ability The well in predecessor too because there's so much more terrain for her to jump over And lose people in over prime. There's not as much. It's a lot I think it's harder to get away from people in over prime in general especially with with Travel speed Anyway, I don't think either one of them are bad.  I will not stand for this op daggers land. What are we getting wrong? But what do you think is better? I don't know. Do you tell us? Uh, I think though this one would be interesting because I think this one and one other champion That I feel like those are going to be the two where we feel like they both Both studios got them well, but that we kind of want slight adjustments or maybe some marrying of what they could do Um, if Fred just batter stasis bomb go through minions like uh, I mean it was like that in paragon And then I don't want to bring this game up But it was like that in fault and like Fault plays a hell of a lot will play to hell of a lot like predecessor does now So I think it's there's just that expectation in my mind that she's going to function like she did in fault I guess mm-hmm Anyway, I think uh, that that's the score. I'll close it out for uh, it looks like chat Chat disagreed with you guys by the way. Yeah, they're hard one hard hard win for predecessor. Yep And all right, so let's move on to the next one Going to be As soon as I figure it out Oh thing now Well, I mean he's not today. I couldn't really play thing now in predecessor. So I'll do they didn't fix today That's good. Yeah. Yeah, they updated him. So you guys go ahead and talk about thing me. I'll set up the poll Do you want me to go first this time or you want to go to uh? Uh, so for me, I'm gonna immediately go to over prime. I think over prime thing now is is Way fun. Uh now granted. This is part of it. They had him overtuned for a while So part of his Shit out of people And the tank items didn't help that Yeah, I think a lot of this is going to come down to that's another thing is itemization I think that some of the items were benefiting thing now a lot more Especially in the last test versus live version of him. They nerfed him pretty good in live version of him Uh, I just like how he overall looks In I think this is more for me just a gut instinct visually. I just say I don't know about kit wise I didn't play nearly as much of him kit wise in either game to be able to sit here because I'll lean on jelly Expertise for that because he definitely probably played way more games in the in that sense, but Just visual field like the the I pressed buttons things happen I just like the way that it happened in over prime But this is not me trying to hard convince anyone that predecessor did a shit job at him I just think that that's just my personal take on it. So I'll I'll leave the rest to you I just think that that he was fun Jelly, did you already put your input in there? Is it my turn? What's going on? Okay. Go ahead. I mean sure It's your turn you go. Okay. The most thing out of all of us probably For me for me now it comes down to Comes down to two things um His ultimate for one in over prime once you lock that in You're locked in so it takes a little bit more skill and over prime to actually land your ultimate like you've got a Once you hit that r you're locked into that whereas Predecessor, I like it a little more because it works Again, like it doesn't like it used to a paragon where you hit the r you're up in the air You can still redirect your ultimate where you where you want to go, which I think is really cool And then over prime with his shield giving you immunity to No, it's not just cc immunity though It's full ability immunity and I found that out by by playing so much countess Is that he can immune anywhere from 30 to 50 fucking percent of my damage depending on what what ability he immune?  I think uh pred did fang me all better even though they broke him for for about a week or two Super sonic fang mal dude like Um This one's hard for me Uh, there's an aspect I played Uh behind kalari. I probably played fang mal the most out of any hero in paragon and so But kalari fang mal and steel were the three characters. I played the absolute most in paragon And so fang mal the predecessor for me Gives me that paragon fang mal feel where I sit there and I go in the off lane and I'm like Dude, I am back on my hero in my lane like this is it Yeah, right and Over prime doesn't give me that same feeling and the it's the gameplay differences between the two of them Their kits are very very similar man. Who's basically detailed the only real differences between them. Um I think a predecessor wins it for me partly because of that feel and partly because you can redirect his ultimate Um, but I don't dislike that you can't do that in over prime either I think there there is a skill advantage to being able to aim that ability efficiently And make sure you're actually landing those and getting the resets Um, but I definitely think I would put fang mal in the predecessor category for this one Got two votes for pred one vote for over prime. Let's see what chat says Looks like uh Fred just barely eat it out. It seems pretty even across the board there. We had I think that's fair 38 33 and 27 I I don't think that's one of the things I feel like with this one is it's like they're not so far apart That they're gonna I think create like if you're a hardcore fang meoplayer, you're not going to be like No, you guys are idiots. This one is so much Because they're so close in similarity and that's why for me. I don't play enough So because they're so close in similarity. I was just like visually one looks kind of Flashier than the other and that makes me happy. All right next one up simple man.  I think this should be PTSD flashbacks for all of us Over prime side. Goodness gracious Yeah, I'm just gonna get mine out of the way. I think over prime version of hers is better She's not only is she stronger her I just I don't know everything about her to me like visually her skin her Her her the strength of her is just out of this world.    I don't really know after the top of my head actually Which one If they have like a massive differences in their kits other than just like cool down the damage scaling Their e is different. The e is different. It's the same ability, but its behavior is different One's a stun one's a slow. You got it Uh and their ultimate size is very different. Yeah, well the ultimate size is huge in and over over prime. Yeah. Yeah, it's massive Uh Me being the the mid the mid lane guy that I am um Again, I'm probably going to make a weird throw a weird curveball here I prefer her in predecessor because she is so overtuned and over prime Like I think that's a poor playing against her versus playing as the character both Interesting.  There should be some sort of skill involved in landing that shot So I I don't think it feels good. I don't I hardly ever play her anymore in over prime because it's just too easy It's like easy mode. Um, I don't want a player.  I guess I guess we're feeling right like you can't you can't completely ignore it Like that's true. That's true impact on your enjoyment of playing a character one way versus another You know, like I think that that should matter um I don't disagree with you that the implementation as far as like just overall kit and dps and all that stuff she feels more balanced In predecessor, but I don't think just because she's unbalanced in over prime doesn't mean that she's not More fun to play Like I but it's because I don't know maybe I'm just it's hard to say because they're so different as far as the damage output If there are more on equal levels and their kits aren't that different. It's I don't know. It's hard. I can see it going both ways. I guess jelly, I think as it sits the buttons are more fun to press and over prime I think their kit is basically identical So at that point I have nothing to fall back on but which is which do I have more fun pressing buttons? And that's definitely over prime at the moment, right? I think she she For lack of a better way to put it plays like gadget in predecessor But in over prime she plays like gadget 2.0 and that I think is really fun Okay She's taboo. It's not that she's broken.  That's I will it may use pointed it out in the uh in the video that you did of her Putting the ultimate down and seeing everybody scattered like cockroaches is hilarious It is so funny because that happens in both games. There's no team fight anymore. They're just all like I Well, and then it becomes pick off city.  And then you just your whole team just sits on the sidelines and waits for one of them to run toward you inevitably That's what it feels like honestly All right, uh Wait, what did mt say pred because the e has interaction and she has a passive over prime gadget feels weird when you Can't miss any abilities That's fair. Yeah, it's the stunner e the stunner. He definitely makes a huge difference over prime one in chat That's a great answer chat. Good job Let's move on to the next uh gideon When I have a lot of experience with old gidgin Do you want to just notice that I keep like making mannerisms and talking with my hands and chat can't see me You guys are just hearing my voice come through the microphone In those speakers, I'll set up the poll. What do you guys think about uh gideon? I think predecessor wins this one pretty heavily. I love the suction cup and over prime. I really do I think it's a really cool ability idea um But the ultimate doing very little other than a like you just don't get to walk anywhere for three seconds Yeah, like a soft cc um Is meh The dash is it is the dash the q is the q right there basically identical I think his passive in predecessor makes him interesting Yep In that like you having to stick to your target after you bop him with an ability And a basic attack I think is a cool idea It's like phase link from over prime but on a passive ability and you don't pull the enemy, of course, right? But just that damage over time while you're standing near them If that's another one where I sit and cackle to myself while I'm watching their health take down Is I've hit them with my q My right click and then I dashed in and hit them with a basic and now I'm linked and watching their health slowly decay And I just sit there.  I love I love that feeling so yeah, I'd have to give this one to pred Uh for me, I I'm uh, I'm a both equal kind of guy I think that they both serve a purpose That is interesting in their own ways I do think that gideon in predecessor feels better as like a mage damage dealer Like especially with his team fighting ultimate where you don't get that same kind of feeling necessarily in over prime Um, but I do like like the their right click difference, right in predecessor The right click is just sending out another, you know, space rock that does damage I like that in over prime It's you know a soft form of cc in a sense like, you know, you're sucking pulling them somewhere You can use it to do different things. Maybe set up a gank, you know, I don't know There's all kinds of fun stuff that kind of comes with it that I think is neat and fun in its own way Um, the combination of hitting your right click into your q feels really cool It's like it's one of the better feeling I think moments or like hey thought you were gonna You know take the damage, um, I also like the implementation that uh over prime did to try and make him a little bit more viable Because he was getting shit on in the last test and he was probably the worst champion They gave him cc immunity for the first cc that hits him that makes him so much stronger You have you have to commit as an enemy team multiple ccs to deal with him And I think that's fantastic So he a lot of times in the games that I've been gets his full ultimate off and doesn't die Whereas he before stunned out of his ultimate and then mother fuckers is dead because he's sitting there And he's squishy as all can be Um, whereas in predecessor he does so much damage with his Away, you know, so they don't want to try and get him He still gets cc'd though and then when he gets cc'd he is just like any other time we've had gideon where he just is now You know Feed for the fodder, you know, it's just it is what it is But I did that the other day to over prime gideon as I cc it was 1v1. He was like quarter health And he used his ultimate. I was like, I got cc threw it out of him. I was like, oh Yeah, I'm by myself now and I only I only have the one cc ability. Yeah. Oh, thanks for that. I guess They're and took the whole ultimate for myself Terrible, uh, his damage is not that high an op. Clorox. It does get higher obviously with items and stuff like that And if you follow the main goose Main goose item Video you can start to put it off a fucked on a damage But it's later. It's it's a it's a slower build versus uh in pred man He starts doing damage literally when he hits six He doesn't have to have a completed item then that guy just chunks you you're fucked And he builds astro catalyst and he can hold five million times Every mage needs to build that item. It's ridiculously strong on all of them. Um I've had I've got a lot of time played in both predecessor and over prime one gideon He's actually my most played hero in over prime by quite a quite a large margin Um, and I am going to give this one to over prime. I think his kit is just a lot more fun at over prime I do love that. Uh, pred has that passive where the where he has burden I love that passive back Which because that used to be one of his abilities So it's kind of cool to see that coming back where you Kind of cast burden on somebody if you had him with a basic attack after you hit him with an ability I also like that Pete that enemies can take his portal In predecessor, I think that's a cool idea.   That's what he's always done.  That's what they're saying I mean, I don't hate the the idea that the people put pred I do think that one of the cooler things is the passive with him that that link is kind of neat I think it's it's not it's a lot of times I've noticed and when I played pred that a lot of gideons aren't using it and that's maybe because they're scared to be Continuing to chase to get the benefits from it. Um, and that's fair, but I like that it exists anyway Like first game of gideon and pred I 100 was that person. I was like, I don't want to get close to them Like I why would I do that?   It might be the setup To making it happen, but it won't individually be that whereas I think other combos like, you know Will a function like that, you know where they'll be able to single-handedly win a teamfight It just comes out of preferences. I think yeah chat brought up a good point and I 100 agree with you True silver over that stupid spell shield item in pred 100 Yes Definitely agree with that Move on to the next hero People aren't just like hard saying their favorite because they like that studio more or they like that specific game And people are actually like objectively looking at this because that's how I know we're approaching it Uh, all right, so grucks maximum boys.  I like grucks His kit feels really good to to play it definitely feels like especially in solo lane, which I play him mostly in solo lane He feels like he can actually 1v1 and then as he gets ahead He starts to feel like he can actually be involved in teamfights.  I mean the rest of his kit still feels good overall Like you can you can definitely still play him similarly as you can in predecessor The thing is for me as a solo laner I know That most times I can Actually stay and lane as grucks and do a 1v1 sometimes even a 2v1 where the jungler is coming in and I can still Because you get you get healing and bleeds through his kit and it's so strong and people don't respect it And they don't respect his damage. They don't respect his cc And you can do multiple. I don't know. I think i'm leaning towards prez I I wish he looked better because he looks like a claymation figure running around on the map. I hate it I do. I really do. I think he looks like shit, but his kit is super good Uh, but itemization is more fun on overprime because you can build him either Bruisery tanky full tank or you can go like I did an attack speed crit build on him.   Uh, whatever things are so anyway That's that's my my grucks spiel for you Joe knees Uh, I have to lean overprime purely because of the sprint mode cue that is one of the strongest abilities in the entire game By itself because it's just wild that you can do that Full sprint at somebody jump in the air and just what are you going to do? You can't get away You better use your blink because you're not going away like it's just that easy And it's so good and it's wild and it feels amazing.   Um I've done that we pulled them into tower They're not expecting you to do that jump backwards and do the pull at the same time And all of a sudden you've covered more distance than they were expecting you to Very very fun. You got a sprint mode flip a 180 and then pull so you're doing it in reverse Absolutely mind-blowing. Yeah, so fun. It adds a lot of skill expression to his kit just being able to do that Um, it does I do I mean I like pred's addition of the passive to him Like you were talking about with the omni vamp that you get after so many hits that you stack up I it's um, I'm going to give it to over prime though.    That would be great That would be that would be a fantastic skin. I I'm not disagreeing with you guys I think I mean I play a lot of grucks in over prime like I think he's my Maybe my second most played champion. I think in over prime Uh, visually like I said, I think he looks amazing like he's he's he's got one of the coolest skins in the game You know, if not if not, I still think it might be up there as the coolest skin still But it's close now with the with the new winter skins, but um, I don't I think part of it is just the the passive bleed slash omnivans stacking that you can do in predecessor you just as again just taking it from a solo lane perspective even maybe as a jungler I don't know. I didn't play too much pred jungle But you just feel like you're able to to really use his kit to its fullest potential And like I said get one-on-one fights where you can actually in over prime sometimes I don't feel like I can win every one-on-one You know what I mean because it's just your your damage doesn't it takes a while But you need your items to really start feeling You know those right clicks to do the amount of damage you've been doing so once it becomes team fight time I feel like grucks more times than not is a displacer Is a half tank.  So I don't know. Hey, they're both really good I just uh Again, this is for me as one of those ones where I could feel like if I could take two kits visually and You know, uh, theoretically and put them together. I would because they're they're both really good for what they are I think what we're learning here is that over prime needs to apply passives to their to their heroes If they added passives, I think that we would be in a whole different state of but if you do Don't give grucks a bleed passive because where on earth does that make any sense? It's just just on his basic We were talking about character thematic. Yeah, where is he making people bleed? Well club could make you bleed if you get hit hard enough.  Come on Well, that's fair. I think actually so this is generally a little appreciate anybody who plays league of legends I'd like to imagine a brutal effect as his passive. Yes 100 I think that would be more fun for him But the bleed in predecessor is really strong and people He's strength is aside. Yeah thematically bleed doesn't make any sense. I feel you I I think it would be more fun if it felt more like it was something that was like he's clubbing you And so there's your arm break out armor every hit or something 2% armor I'll say armor pin that way brokes used to be in war to warcraft when you equip maces you had a Armor pin bonus. Oh, that's true. I forgot about that. That actually was broken at one point. Yeah. Yeah, it was Especially pvp. Um, okay, so chat is giving it to predecessor I think we got a lot of pred fanboys boy. I think we do. I think we do Pred pred fanboys. I'm gonna speak to you guys for a second here I need you guys to objectively look at this if you have not played over primes version of this I don't you don't just a default to give it to predecessors To do what I want you guys to do is listen to our arguments And see which one sounds Like something you'd be interested in even if you're not going to play over prime That's fine. Like how many of you guys are voting predecessor just because you only played predecessors So therefore pred's gonna win Come on bros like this is supposed to be for fun. This isn't supposed to be like, you know Gonna decide which which studio is gonna live the long term Well, next up is going to be who did how it's her better.  I think this one's gonna be hard Uh, I mean, I I know run off of that I I feel like I do as well, but go ahead and predecessor all the way predecessor did Yep, I'm with you actually not only is his kit more interesting.  I know that like you've already got giddy. It's area effect You already got gadgets area effect and like halisters isn't that much different from those two other than he has an escape Tied to it. So I do like that. They changed it. Um, his slow minds. I don't really get why they changed that um Then you know, his mind is good in both games. Um, and they just remove the slow minds in over prime He just has a pretty much just a AOE Yeah, yeah, just a short queue and then uh But yeah, if the the main thing though is like I said if you're going to do halter You got to do r2000 rocket, right? Oh, also Howitzer traditionally has always had uh cleave tied to his basic attacks Which I think is thematically cool because he's firing explosives predecessor has that over prime does not so.  I'm definitely going to give uh predecessor answer Yep, I think between the ultimate and the queue Uh, uh predecessor takes it. I think the ultimate I agree is Very strange in terms of like how it plays out and it's really really really really strong in predecessor But I think thematically and just by feel overall predecessor beats out over prime on this one I guess I'll be the the the center here. I agree how it's yeah I think I I'm giving it to over prime and I'll go into a little bit of why but my I do agree that in over prime his queue feels not great.  I'm aiming at That aside I think I just like the way that he operates in the position that he holds Way more. I feel like he has a good balance of Being strong when played well and being weak and punished when not played well Whereas in I feel like predecessor. They made it to where his kit is so Baby hand holding It bothers me to all into no end.   You don't have to do anything You never have to be put yourself necessarily into a arms way to be able to function as to how it's any scales And you get that item again that resets cooldown He will get three four five ultimates off in a team fight and you can do nothing to stop him Because he's just flying around above you and you just there's nothing to do Overprime to me feels like it matches what his kit is supposed to be They might fail in the queue, but I think his right click does the right things.    He scales forever I I can't stand it. That's my my take. I hate him. I don't ever want to see him I they need to do something they haven't touched him and they bothers me they mess with them a little bit They nerfed him a little bit Oh, did you see what it was? It was a hundred and like 30 scaling and they put it down to like 95 scaling or something off of the magic It's like What are you thinking in the first place?  Get out of here.  It looks like uh predecessor one once again for chat There you go Wait, what did chat say about it? Baby hand holding yeah, dude. It's a tiny little baby hand Oh How he's currently easy and proud because his ult damage early is high His slow mines range is way too far. It might as well be another missile with how much damage those things Yeah, dude, it's insane I'm looking forward to jelly's take on this next one, which is calari Both both Have changed her kit a little bit Um, hope he has changed her kit a lot. I guess I should say So he's a resident calari main here, so I'll go last but this one's hard for me. Oh, you want to go last? Okay?  Yeah, because I got to do the That's fine. Okay, so I am not a calari main by any means I am not as scared of a calarian predecessor as I am in over prime You can take that for what it is I think that part of that is just going to be the type of map and the way that the game plays out And so there's there's those things to take into consideration um I've I will say that I think it's what I'm going to do. Okay.  Um, I know that they're strong and predecessor Uh, but I just haven't felt that that same fear As I might feel as a fed calari in over prime And so for that I'm gonna give it to over prime just because like I actually get like a feeling in my chest thinking about it Uh, oh da you got that reversed. It's camo and pred invisibility and over prime Uh, you can hear her a little better at over prime because I think over prime sound is on Overall better like predecessor announced that they're picking up a new sound engineer. So That should be good.     Why are you giving her a double jump?  Um For me, I just don't want to escape an over prime now though with her q being basically, uh, she can't be damaged out of it So you have to cc her in order to find her again Yeah, true. I mean, that's the way it was in Paragon too, but yeah as in pred she has a camo right so she can still be pulled out of it If you're close to her, yeah So you can still chase after her and find her But uh, I don't know that I can't decide on this one. I'm not a calari player So I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just going to say both equal for me Um, I will say I'm a lot more afraid of calari in predecessor that I am an over prime I know oh interesting. I know jedi's going to disagree with me there, but I think she Yeah, yeah, she's a dog.  They haven't called her kaolin forever All right, jelly. Give us the breakdown, brother Yikes, uh, so right click. I feel like for me. I have to break this down for ability. I honestly because it's it's difficult I wouldn't call them equal Like I wouldn't just I think that's a disservice Honestly, because they're very different Shut up for us. I don't want to hear your shit Having two daggers on her right click is the best thing that has ever happened to a calari ever in the entire world That is like the if I Knew if I even thought about that being an option in paragon I would have petitions till the end of the world to get a second dagger in paragon Because I think that is one of the greatest things you could do for her in over prime her dagger is Interesting. It's a single dagger, but it also applies a mark that when you hit them again, it pops and does extra damage Um, so that is it's a very good source of damage early on Her e is a dash in over prime and her e in predecessor is that is that mark the mangoes was talking about where it pops A couple seconds later feeling more damage to the lower health they are In predecessor, it's a fun ability to kind of get like fade away kills But it's just kind of meh like I just kind of find myself like applying it and hoping it does something great What are you waiting for? It's not a fun ability to use I never hit it and I'm like, whoo, whoo, right? Like that was a fun button to press I always hit it and I'm like well Now I need to hit my other buttons perfectly in order for that to do anything Um Her ultimate in bread is way too far. I understand in Paragon that ultimate it was the same ultimate originally for her But it was a third of the distance And people hated it because you didn't you did a lot of damage, but it was literally Tiny in terms of how far it went and predecessors like oh you you didn't like how the short distance was All right, we're going to turn that up to 11 Team fight when you press your ultimate and I think that is too far It's still a global it's still a global you can go from one side of the map to the other It's like great You just used all of your abilities point blank because you're a basic attack character And now the person's still right in front of you alt and you're under their tower instead like it's wild Which one's better? I'll post out and said both. I can't I can't decide myself. I For me, I think I have to take it down to itemization If items were better in overprime, I think I would hands down say overprime Because she is not an assassin an overprime by any stretch of the imagination because ad assassins don't exist in overprime And but assassins 100 exist in predecessor And for me Kalari is an assassin and I can't play her as an assassin an overprime I think I have to say because you're not because you're not building frienderos flask jelly if you just build that you If you I'm Fuck with both of you. So chat says not surprisingly enough predecessor At least this one's pretty close though. This one's close 30 61 to 35 I I think purely have overprime added ad items or assassin items I would pick overprime hands down. I think she's way more fun in overprime to ad or ad And If they added pp assassin items Also jelly I do do both give the same satisfaction when you right click somebody who's trying to back under tower And you just come up to them and go pink when you when you throw your dagger at them They both give the same satisfaction, but you get to do it twice in predecessors Because the people like oh she threw her dagger. Okay. I'm gonna press back again use what okay.  There's good feels right there. Yeah, I want an assassin items too.  I left Kalari up his name, but We're talking chimera right now. Not Kalari.  We don't even need to vote predecessors chimera is 1,000 times better than overprimes Even with the fact that you can't peel off of lane minions The fact you can't peel off lane minions It's his sustain is way better his e negating cc for a time for not only can he get out of cc pressing his e He's also still negating cc for the next couple seconds after the fact Which is just wild his q is a max attack speed boost and not just a general attack speed boost Super super great. His right click relatively the same in both games But it gives his stacks are more impactful in predecessor So it giving him stacks on his right click is more impactful The fact that when he uses his e he doesn't consume his stacks is just Beyond mind-blowing his ultimate is 100 times better that man in in predecessor is just absolutely wild And in overprime.  I don't want to hear that 100 I do yeah, chlorox. Yeah, jelly does one ad assassin items that is what he was I I think he's do it weirdly I'm going to say this for if for uh chimera. I think he in overprime.  Um, I think into jelly's credit I think he gets punished the most because he doesn't have any other form of cc or way to engage once He's used his right click. He's just kind of fucked.  It's he's nuts.   I would like to refer man goose to the game We played last night where chimera was literally popping me in one ability. Yeah. He predecessor. Yeah Yeah, he was he hit me with his ultimate and I took 3 000 damage I was I was on richard. He was popping me just build anti heal and you're fine No, I built I built tainted totem first. Yes. I built tainted. Yes in predecessor God, no, it's not a lot enough. I built tainted totem first But it didn't matter about his anti heal because he was just Destroying everybody because it got so far ahead. Oh, anyway, I do kind of want to say though I think that that's a slope when we start when we start comparing the the usage of these champions when it comes to items Because that's I think both we've talked about this a lot on ftm And it's neither game has their items done well enough to be Where we would like them and they both have huge or no impact on the way that the kits sometimes are Are played through like they're just so To me they feel all all over the place like predecessor feels like kind of boring as far as their itemization They there's a lot that kind of overlap and do similar things Over prime has some that are just like non-existent and then some that are just like way overtuned and crazy and it's like Item if we I feel like we're going down as like I said slippery slope if we start going like okay You can build this guy better. So he's better in this game. I don't think that's fair I think if we try and just compete keep it to Because the items suck in both games Yeah, I mean they both have time to rectify that but I I I agree with that That's the other thing they both they both have time to rectify a lot of shit here So it's not like this is going to be the end all be all This one's better than always going to be better in this game because they they're both going to be making No, you're picking a camp right now. Maybe yeah, I'm gonna end the poll it's in a chimera definitely won that one for predecessors.   So once it takes enough shots It goes down.  That's it Yeah, and even then she she doesn't do nearly as well as some of the other supports I I think she's I think she's garbage So reaper, what's your opinion on which? I give her to bread but I I do that very limitedly I think I I think she definitely has more impact in pred than she does in over prime But that's not saying much when the bar is literally the floor in over prime. So Yeah, over prime means the work owner I will say though The only the only bug I've ever experienced in Well, not the only bug but one of the very few bugs I've ever experienced a predecessor Is her ultimate just not dealing damage at all And I've had that happen multiple times and that is extremely frustrating And the people who are always like, well, well, they probably were at full mana. Motherfucker.  Like they were at even I've been on the receiving end of bellica. It's doing no damage where I'm sitting at negative five health And I see bellica just start to line it up and I go like this is the moment and then somehow I survive I'm like, okay. Well, I'm just gonna keep running then. Thanks. Like I don't know what happened, but The soul reaper says uh over prime gideon is better And he's a gideon me and so that's got some weight to it I say gideon or I asked him I said soul reaper. What's up? Which one's better and which gideon is better and oh, okay He said over prime. Yeah, so he agrees with me. So reaper and I were equal skill level.  Oh, absolutely You're definitely equal skill level Oh, yeah If they would change it over prime that the minions did not target her drone, I think she would be a thousand times better um She also just gets Her knockup gets outranged by everybody but um her bomb actually goes just as far as like a gideon rock and it's Basically just as easy to hit though If you are going to play her at over prime just level up the shit out of your bomb and use it like a gideon rock And then just use your stun when people engage on you I'm sad that neither one of them really did a lot to innovate her Like I feel like she has this as a thematic character has a lot of opportunity And I feel like neither one of them capitalized on it She's supposed to be the anti mage and she's not in either one Realistically, she's she's just another battle mage She's just another battle mage and that's not interesting right the part of her appeal and paragon Was the fact that she was the anti mage if you Who she was the answer to gideon right like gideon was a monster Introduced bellica bellica was like great. You're playing a mage. Let's go right play a different character, right? And she's not that in either game and that's kind of sad um yeah, uh I guess both equal for me. This is a pretty boring one. Um Kind of sad. I loved bellica in fault. Absolutely loved her in fault I was gonna say I actually It makes me upset because I actually thought that back in my paragon days me a little bit in fault But like I I thought she was a fun character. I loved her knock-up.  Okay.  I loved that back and forth I loved that like almost a chess game of like who am I am I as gideon going to do enough damage to you?  I think predecessor slightly edges her out because I think she has a little more capability in the right hands if An aggressive player that can dodge other skill shots really well will perform really well with bellica whereas Over prime. She's just always going to feel a little bad.  Yeah, I don't think anybody cares All right, so after bellica is murdoch.  I think this is a pretty easy one I I think it's easy for me. I but I'm I'm curious how How chat is going to react because they've been pretty heavy one way versus another Well, I mean so all in predecessor. I'll start I guess Uh murdoch ultimate on smart cast or quick cast is unusable It's garbage They literally had to change the ability to function differently on quick cast because it was so bad like it's And it's still not great like it. What are we talking about? Murdoch ultimate predecessor. Oh, it's ultimate. It's ultimate. Okay, gotcha Uh, yeah, it's terrible his ultimate and predecessor in general is just not as great I don't need it to be instant like it is in pred, but I need it to be faster than what it is because it's Awful to aim sometimes or most of the time Uh, his right click is It is what it is. It's a disengage off of people on him His minds are uninteresting in pred and I I like that Overprime changed them but overprime changed them to be something else that is just as on uninteresting.    Ah, it's so cool I love that Chloro go ahead actually go ahead mangas I was just going to say that just all the When we're just speaking just strictly adcs I think they all feel better In overprime over predecessor a lot of that has to do with the sound design Which uh predecessor has taken steps to fix like sparrow feels infinitely better now that they uh They did um some more stuff with her with her basic attacks But um not having a crit sound and just the sounds in general And just how slow they are. I think over primes carries adcs Just I think they feel better to play just in general.  I was uh, I was watching raven on on twitch last night Oh my god, like people would be like he would have the back under tower He would lob two grenades snipe The snipe would take him down Just far enough to where those two grenades lobbed in would would take him out and seeing people do some crazy Shit like that. I'm like sure.    They can do something better. I kind of agree a little bit with colloxing like the q that they has some overlap with revs q better revenant q and every Revenant q and that that's the weird choice to me is like I'm again, I prefer over prime murdoch for sure But I think in terms of a design to give an a better version of a different character's ability And then also have that character be in the game with the same one just worse Yeah, he's just a weird choice. I agree this point That was one of the strengths of revenant was his obliterate being a very strong ability when used correctly Yeah, and he just removed the used correctly part and just when used you on murdoch so much damage Minimum 10 you sound like a like a like a boring guy at the party.  But Yeah, this this one definitely goes to over prime for me Even though I actually prefer I actually prefer predecessors version of the ultimate. I always liked leading the shots With with this knife instead of lead the shots, but I don't need a five second lead time on yeah They need a happy medium. They need to come.  I just have to hard disagree with the predecessor. It's it's he's fun in any capacity I don't think he is. I think he's boring to play actually I actually think all the ad carries in predecessor boring to play None of them. The lane doesn't help that either. I think no it doesn't but That lane feels so bad. It's just it's very hard to identify the minion health bars when you're looking Minion health bars basic attacks not hitting where you when you think they're supposed to Do the uphill nature be having to look straight up almost it feels like when you're on the lower part of the hill You have minions blocking 90% of your vision. It's like I have no idea what's going on Um, yeah, I yeah, I think I I'm giving over prime. I'm gonna go ahead and uh In the poll here and it looks like chat is also giving it to over prime. This is the first one I think over prime is one as far as As far as chat goes And uh, it's still close Let's move on now to one that is near and dear in my heart and actually care about Somebody I didn't care about for a very long time and now I do it's burial Wait, did we skip over the fey? No, she starts with a t.  Okay. Okay. Let's talk about muriel We'll talk about fey later moral moral So who did muriel better is it uh Predecessor or overrun. This is an easy over prime victory for me. Yeah, I agree. Oh p. Muriel He's so lackluster in pred. It's wild Not having the stun is a big part of that too I wish the stun was stronger and over prime, but because it just feels like it. I do I think I okay. Listen.  No, you're not not what it's wrong. No, what it's wrong I wish it was a little bit stronger because it feels like and with the amount of cc That's in this game hers feels like a hiccup of cc in comparison to a lot of the other cc's granted It's huge. It's a bigger thing and so therefore it shouldn't be I just wish I'm not I'm not saying it needs to be Overtuned I'm saying I think it was I wish it was a little bit stronger because you you notice it the most In in lane when it's like just a hiccup of cc. It stops them for a millisecond You know, it's I don't know. It doesn't feel that impactful. It's still good. I don't want it to go away Okay, first of all, I don't want to nerf it. I just think it could be Of all of her stuff be a little bit stronger, but otherwise she's I've not had as much of like of palpitations and freaking out as when I'm trying to support somebody on muriel And throwing all all the shields ultimate everything like that Like she just feels so proactive and like you're just having to pay attention to everything that's going on all of the time Plus if you guys are really interested in a really fun muriel clip Minkus trying to keep these two knuckleheads alive in an end game situation Where we're both on two carries and slivers of health or no health bars at all at some point It just showcases how fun and crazy playing as a muriel is while also giving you many heart attacks along the way Lock on right click Muriel all the way like that goes from the from the back of one tower to the back of another tower literally Zenyatta in uh overwatch That's a literal comparison I can give you Yeah, and it was real funny playing pred opening weekend with mangoose. I was playing carry. He was playing support muriel He threw the right click on the ground for me to grab And I thought it was a visual bug. I was so used to overprime where he just locks onto me and gives me this shield He's like get the shield. I was like what shield he's like on the ground.   Um Again her ultimate not traveling through the target kind of sucks So you have to build her fairly tanky I think in over prime to to to be effective with her Otherwise, you just never get to use your shields.  I think the right click alone is probably one of the best things about it Especially since it comes off of cooldown as you start getting into it Like you're able to get that thing off multiple times use it for chase down It's so great I'm a big fan I think it's fun, dude. She's probably one of the most fun supports to play personally. She is a lot of fun.  Oh god. No, no, that was too much. That was too much I Think that was when I was even playing Narbash because I was like combustion.  Oh, yeah, that's awesome That's that's almost not even a fair, you know thing to do to to predecessor I I'm gonna say personally, uh, both are good I think that they both capture what Narbash is supposed to be.  He will keep you in this fight.  Why are you running away? I'm so mad But uh, that that's that's both games probably have those same things So I think in I guess if I was gonna add you it would be slightly in over prime's favorite Favor, but not by a lot. I think both of them are good. Um, I think his kit is a little bit more Nuanced in predecessor, right? Like you stuff goes on Yeah, your rhythm sacks that you need to be building off and stuff So there might be like, you know, there might be guys who are like, I like the vibe that you know from predecessor versus over prime and all That's I mean, that's fine. I think they're both good for what they are. It's Narbash Hit your thunks win game. That's it Yeah, I'm the same way I think both equal for the vast majority of Things right they feel very similar for the games I've played which is very few to be sure but Very very similar between the games Narbash in over prime giving you a tax feed on his on his cue is a little wild But at the end of the day, it's it's just a different stim that he gives and I think that's fine But yeah, what about you man goose? Yeah, I think they kind of equal out for me Again with over prime when you're actually beating somebody with your drumsticks It feels a hell of a lot better than beating somebody with your drumsticks In pred but pred just looks better and his animations are cooler. So Yeah, both equal for me and I think I Yep, Chad agrees both equal like our bash has done really well in both games.   What's not to love. Come on. Oh, this is gonna be a fun one grand page Oh Bear in mind. We're not taking we're not taking that ass into account It is no it is no John's skill 100% I know jelly's probably gonna have a shrunk because this is again going back into jungling more than than off lane And that's what I've been mostly playing.   It's coming to kick you You know, he throws a snowball now. I don't know man.   I'm gonna put him as both equal because I don't have a strong enough opinion one way or the other Mingus um It's kind of funny.  I think it's cool Just can't do that in predator.   You can't in pred at times out and pred at times out Yeah, which I so I think I just think he's they both have the rumble They both have the leap they had they both have basically the same kit. They both actually have passives like Um over prime doesn't have a lot of passives. Um He's one of the few that has a bit of a passive where he gets a little bit more Region in the jungle. They both have the same Ultimate basically.  Oh we lost it. Oh man down man down jelly just left us So if you were looking forward to what jelly had to say then Okay, he's coming back. He's coming back gotta love random discord resets. I don't even have to open it again That's well Uh rampage just start over. Yeah I think rampage and over prime is just better. Uh, he in terms of what rampage is there to do He's there to stun people and is there to just face tank the entire enemy team He'll allow his team to do what they need to do and in predecessor when he's trying to face tank late game He just dies And in over prime when he tries to face tank late game. He just doesn't die. He just never dies Yeah, and I think that is way more fun Um, I think the rock is more fun to use in over prime I think the fact that his ultimate gives him a we damage around him is really nice It's a little quality of life thing to help him be a little more scary You're not just going to have someone that just stands there and just beats on him Right you he they actually have to play smart around his ultimate now, which I think is beneficial But yeah, overall, I just I would say over prime on this one for sure Um, I think he gets accidentally countered in over prime a little bit Because there's so many abilities that have baked in um anti heal anti heal in In over prime like uh dark tide from counters has anti heal So I was facing a rampage off lane today because I've been playing a lot of counters off lane in over prime And uh, yeah every time he would ult I would just hit him with the e and it was like his ult didn't exist And it was just it was nice. I didn't have to build any I didn't have to waste an item slot on anti heal to counter rampage Yeah, his ult didn't exist, but he still was tanky, right? Like that's the thing is like even Yeah, like even really easy said it's almost like tanks don't exist in pred right now What rampage is an entire existence in paragon was to be him and steel were to be the tank Right if you needed a tank Those two should be first in mine in line for what your tank looks like and In predecessor, they're not like tanks just don't exist Rampage's existence is to be a tank and me I think it's cooler in over prime than pred, but a lot of people will disagree I think they're both fine for what they are, but I but that's also again keeping in mind I've not played nearly enough. Actually, I don't think I've played a single rampage game in pred. I've just played against him I've played him in pred. He feels good. Everything feels good in pred. Um, it just feels soft to me Like I like that there's a little more crispness in over prime, especially with melee hits, but Uh, looks like uh chat is saying predecessor, but not by a huge margin Um, yeah, we've got 50 for predecessor 37 for over prime both equal 12 percent Let's move on to the next one Which is severog Oh, I think severog stills fucking amazing in both games to be perfectly honest. Yeah All right, you guys go ahead and talk I'm gonna sit at the full Oh boy, so I think I fear severog in predecessor more than I do in over prime And I think the part of that is because he can get his stacks off of all of his abilities now And he gets his stacks.   He can be one of the slipperiest if not one of the most in the game I think uh in in over prime.  So actually, I'm gonna change my mind. I think predecessor. He's slightly better, but not by a lot There you go, okay. I don't know how he is in jungle.  I mean, he's not great in jungle for over prime by any stretch the imagination, but he's playable I would say he's better than over primes jungle sev in pred, but not again I wouldn't play him over almost any other jungler by any stretch I think he's really good in both games. Um, he has basically the same kit in both games. They both function really well. Um Yeah, it like you said it it's easier to get stacks in pred, but you it takes less stacks And we lost y'all again It a lot but it takes less stacks and over prime to get him fully stacked.  Um, I really like both in both games So I'm going with both this time.     You know from uh from a thematic look, uh But yeah, I just say million pred though. Did they I didn't notice it. So maybe I'm wrong. Really? Yeah. Yeah I didn't notice it. No, he get he get yeah, he goes full spikes in pred. He never gets full spikes in over prime Okay, well, there you go boys. My bad. I didn't know that and I wasn't paying that close attention But in I've had in pred severogs kick my ass more than I've had them kick my ass in over prime so All right, uh, looks like chat has chosen over prime um Probably by not probably not by a large margin here I guess okay, it was Over prime 35 both equal 35 and processor 29 that's fine I think both equal I think the other thing is too is because In over prime, um, the 80 carries can actually shred through a severog and chat shred through other tanks If they itemize well and get ahead enough and predecessor It feels like I think if you get if he gets far enough ahead Because carries are kind of weak in general or just they don't feel all that strong Uh, well, I don't think he gets to full like tank status like he does In others, um He's definitely still is like a disruptor and can do all kinds of problems for people in the back line Yeah, and and really fuck with the the carries whereas I think in over prime the carry can still like Kite him out Do different things because of the way their kits are set up It just allows for it, you know having twin blasts and and all those guys like to be able to really kite around a severog I don't know. I can't stack with sev confirmed to get actually in my first game Of severog and predecessor man goose was uh, I was giving me a really really hard time because I did not get the full stacks Because I didn't know what I was doing I forgot about that. I was like motherfucker. We're 20 minutes in. Where's your spice? Why don't you have all your spice? I forgot about that to to my to my I want to say this it was it I was also playing on like 120 ping So I was struggling to get the last hit as as good as I should have I got better at it I did get better at it, but it took me a little bit Um now that I play on the west coast and I get four ping or zero ping sometimes it seemed it's like I think their servers are literally right next to my apartment. Uh I have no problem stacks getting stacks. But anyway, yeah, I did struggle the first game to get stacks and And oh jelly's back Stop frog. Not too bad. Jelly. We're already moving to sparrow. Oh never mind Obi-Keri's is strong.  I mean you guys know who I'm gonna pick because like I said, I think overprime ADCs just feel way way better to play than friends ADCs, but That's just me. I will immediately agree except I think that her ultimate in overprime sucks Yeah I do. I think it's a garbage ultimate. She she basically has to get almost a melee range to be able to use it efficiently Um, not that it doesn't chunk when she does, but it just puts her into such a terrible situation Um, so from that perspective, I don't like it. I'm not saying that I give it to predecessor Um Because I don't think she feels all that much better, but her ultimate is a little bit better Um, the rest of it's not that great. I think Kerry's in general just all across the board feel better in overprime And if you're if you're a guy who's uh struggles to land her right clicks They give her a buff and so you don't need to land right clicks anymore You it still helps if you can right, but you don't have to scale them.  Yeah. Yeah, so she that's what I'm saying like it feels like in Um, you know and this is going back a little bit to paragon fault and now predecessor Right click is her bread and butter. You really need to be good at I think landing nose and then in um In overprime while it's still beneficial to be able to do so I don't think it's like As necessary after the most recent buffs beforehand when she was I think she was the worst Kerry in the last test Um, they've upped her her viability and I think she's actually one of the stronger ad carries in the right hands And just just to be clear with chat here. I'm not saying that adcs are weak in either game I just think they feel better in pred to play it because you do get the crit sounds you get better sound engineering You get better hit indication. It just feels like you're actually hitting something in Overprime where it's pred But like I said, they have especially with sparrow. I have done some better sound design with her since the game came out So she feels infinitely better to play in predecessor now than she used to but I think just adc adc in general I just prefer the adc Hits and hit sounds and everything in overprime to uh to pred but That's just me. I kind of like that is hit scan. I don't know how they're going to do yin since they have hit scan basic attacks in overprime, but I don't know. I guess they might have to come up with something else, right? Burn that bridge when we get there, I guess I so listen Chat just because I think that they that they're weak doesn't mean you have to take their week Okay, I've played a decent amount of pred I might not have played as much pred as you guys, but I've not felt like it's usually mine carries winning the games because of how Good they are. It's almost always through jungle and and the team coordination coming together better in predecessor I don't think it's because carries are hard carrying and doing the most amount of damage in the team fights I just don't think that's the case I think that they might get set up to do well and then if they get far enough in the game Where they just have items and they start to melt people but that's that's going to happen in both games In overprime from level one Some of these carries are ridiculously strong. You cannot you cannot underestimate them and so I think but whereas in predecessor I just don't feel that scared of a drongo. Sorry, bud Okay, it's like I don't feel that scared of a of a of a murdoch level one I must play with bad carries. Maybe I don't know dude. I'll just log in and Everybody else bro. What do you want from me? Jack a hundred percent agree and I do believe a said that they are getting a better sound guy. So That'll be nice Listen, I'm not kind of getting an argument with you guys about you guys are obviously all Predecessor fanboys and that's fine. You guys can enjoy whatever game you want I'm not sitting here trying to change your mind But I'd also don't want to be attacked because I think one thing and you guys disagree Don't don't don't make me feel like I'm stupid because I have a different opinion And I don't think we're really arguing the efficacy here and more of the implementation Yeah Because I mean if we're going to go efficacy, I definitely would have given gadget to Overprime, but I gave gadget to pred because I think pred implemented her better Uh going for a hundred and six minutes Um Yeah, I think she's cool in both games. I think she's much she feels much better in pred with the new sound design But I I definitely give this one to uh overprime Uh looks like chat has given this one to predecessor But not by a whole lot. We got pred at 43 over prime at 37 both equal at 18 percent and I'm not defensive on you guys having an opinion I don't I get defensive if you guys if I feel like you guys are attacking my opinion because it goes against yours I don't have a problem going back and forth and you guys being able to state your your uh your thoughts and feelings on something I don't I'm not a predecessor hater.  You know what I mean? So that's all I'm asking is just be be respectful of the fact that I might have a difference opinion And when I disagree with you, you're gonna flame me versus when I agree with you You think my opinion is great.  Be better All right steel. Let's go with steel in um, who did steel better predecessor or over prime Predecessor. Yeah, I'm giving this the predecessor 100 percent Um, I completely agree. Hey jelly's back. There he is His passive getting getting those uh those shield stacks, dude. Again. I play a lot of solo lane It's so deceptive on how how how long he will survive with those stacks. It's so crazy He's he's It's weird.  Like I still think he's really good in over prime, especially in the support I think he's actually one of the stronger supports for being able to keep uh, you know the carry meta at bay When it was stronger than it is currently especially with his e but both feel good I just think in predecessor with that he has more viability and in multiple roles and in a bigger It has a bigger impact, which is a lot of fun. So I'm giving it to predecessor personal Steel right-click in predecessor is a stun and that's a win. Yeah That's exactly what I was gonna say You the bulk it just looks like it's gonna stun the right like why is that a slow like give him something different I don't know if you guys remember way back in the day before net marble picked up over prime They had steel he had a slow on his uh on his right click But his right click was a Spartan kick to the chest. It wasn't a it wasn't the shield bunk They gave him like a completely new animation, which was kind of cool And uh, but I still felt that that should have uh, well, I think that was a knockback and a slow is what that was but um I still think that should have stunned it just The bunk I think is just so so much cooler to have um, and then again, like you said his passive Uh Jedi in predecessor is way cooler where you get shielding every time you use your ability.  Um, I haven't seen it happen Um since the cbt's but I'm sure it does people getting stuck on minion heads and stuff Have you guys seen anybody get stuck on a minions head? Not recently, but yeah I mean mangoes you've you the amount of times in previous cbt's that you would play steel And knock them out of my stuff every time Mangoes stop doing that mangoes Yeah, it's uh Seal way better in predecessor in almost every single way The one thing that I'll give the over prime for steel is his shield is curved And I think that is a way more natural feeling ability Being having the his throwable shield be a little curved on the outer edges Then it is it being just a flat wall somewhere Yeah, I do like I do like the curve they gave it.  Um, his shield is really a Really, really effective in over prime. It's pretty effective in predecessor too Just not as effective as it is in over prime. But again, we're not arguing efficacy We're talking we're talking about implementation and uh, yeah He I think he's just implemented so so much better in predecessor than over prime Again, I want a little more visceral action on those basic attacks that does you do feel a little slow With with his hit with his hits you feel a little soft So I think we're all in concurrence here, uh steel Goes to predecessor Again, I don't think he's bad in over prime. I just think he's better in predecessor We're gonna be ending on a spicy one here as uh When do the mace would say Ooh cafe cafe Stop bears So she is pretty different between that. Well, not not massively different But she's fairly different between the two implementations of the fae. Uh, you you definitely play her. I think um A little differently in both games Med kit. What's up, man? So let me do the poll I think the fae is very is in an interesting interesting spot in both games And it has very different play styles despite having very similar abilities The aoe on her e in over prime versus the skill shot e in predecessor the movement speed buff on her vines on in over prime um, overall, I think I would probably put her as A mix between as like fine and both I don't know that one of them necessarily sticks out better or worse than the other I think they're just slightly different in the way that they play But they're both probably just as effective It's like situationally dependent on which one's better, you know mm-hmm um So if you guys don't know so her cue her bramble patch and predecessor works just like it did back in um The old paragon days where it's a slow and they take one instance of the slow when they walk through They get one instance of damage if they walk back through it. They're not re slowed. They're not redamaged But in um In over prime It gives you a speed boost which makes zero sense Like thematically why you would get a speed boost by running through a bramble I guess like ouch ouch ouch and you run faster, but But it gives you a speed boost in over prime and it actually it but what does make sense is it persists Like if you throw it into the middle of a minion wave, it will constantly deal ticks of damage, which is kind of cool um her right click just It in predecessor, you know, it it deals ticks of damage winding up to 50% of the damage is dealt at the end But it explodes does the same thing at over prime, but uh, it slows and over prime So if people walk through it, they're slow.  It's a lock on Um straight line shot and it deals aoe damage so you could clear out minions With her e So and then in both of them.  Um it's Just so situational with her over which one's better. Um Over primes fay is better at clearing objectives like helping the team clear objectives and helping Just straight clearing and pushing a lane because she does have that ticking damage on her bramble patch.  Um I don't know That's a weird one Like you have to get But with over prime you have to get like damn near up in their face to use her e Which is kind of which is kind of nutty even though it is a lock one. Oh no, man. It's pretty crazy You like uh kid death says he likes that uh movement speed ability that movement speed ability is fun Um, she's a really fun support in over prime Um, I don't think you could really support with her as well in uh predecessor as you can with her in over prime but I mean her wave clear is just nuts and I think in both games, right? But like I I don't know. I mean for me, I think uh The the speed up as like not only playing it but as a as a teammate That speed up in team fights is so sick It's it's it her ability to similar to uh gadget be able to control team fights is also insane. Um I could see an argument for both where people feel like both games got her right uh for different reasons and um I just think I don't know man. I think I like the change that over prime did to making her um Her e AOE I think that was a it was a huge quality of life improvement for her in lane against Some of the other stronger mages that were in the last test Uh, so this gave her a lot more agency Um, and then in off lane or even as a support it gives her an insanely strong poking tool, right because it's Really it's almost impossible to miss and you get it back for free You get free mana for every time you hit it on a champion.   Yep Yep And I mean there's an argument to be made to that in pred especially given how important it is to control jungle Uh, that having somebody like the fey who can really she does so well in corridors and and when places where people can't escape right like and that's that's Predecessor we talk about the jungle like, you know, there's a lot of spots where people can get really kind of closed off and locked in Uh, and she excels in those spots.  I apologize guys. We're almost done. So you want the Yeah, we're done. You're done. Uh, what's your uh, what's your verdict on the fey jelly? I think she's in the middle for me. I don't think she's Sticks out in one game versus the other again better or worse by a large margin to call it I think it's pretty sixes across the board There you go. Yeah, right on and uh Chat is mainly voting for predecessor That's one But in the poll, yeah Close one though predecessor 45 Over prime 41 both equal 12 All right, and that that's it. That's all of them. That's gonna that's gonna close it out.  So that's cool Hopefully we'll we'll see what happens in the comments. That'll be fun to what that'll be fun to read but um Yeah, just uh Definitely my advice too is play both games. Um And if if you if you decided that you like predecessor way better than you know stick with predecessor Overruns way better stick with over prime. Personally, I'm going to be playing both I think they both have their merits and they can both be fun in the right Um situations uh frija. I got you. Yeah, it it does The slow does reapply on bramble patch if you walk back through it. Um In in pred, uh, I thought I tested that on steel and it didn't work But I guess I guess not. Um, I'll trust you over my over myself on this one. But uh, yeah, it was um, it was a good time. Uh Uh jelly any final comments? No, I think it's uh, I mean for us Right chat on with standing. I think we were split about 50 50 for the vast majority of heroes that some were better in one And I think a lot of them were Right, they were only better for like this reason or only better for that reason It wasn't just like a flat out like they're just better in this one for the vast majority I think that's a good thing to see for sure Mm-hmm jenna Yeah, no, I mean, I I agree. I've played both games. Um, it's It is it is interesting to see the different choices that that both have gone for when you start looking at You know, they're using the same assets overall like at least the the theme of the assets Uh, I like that there's deviation from them. Um, I like that if I go and play predecessor I'm going to get a different the game than what I get in over prime and I and that's fine I like that like I said about grucks I like playing grucks in both games Sometimes I really just miss predecessor grucks. I will think about a man of fully He did these things in over prime and I think that for a lot of these champions So, uh, I think chat was obviously a little bit heavy favorite towards one over the other But I like that we as ftm crew continue to still find value and beauty in both and um, They it's it's pretty cool. I think I was surprised at how many we as the three of us felt like it was a Tie almost between each kit. I thought for sure we were going to have a lot more descent amongst ourselves Let alone with chat. Uh, so it was uh, it was really cool that uh, we both got we all felt the same way I agree kid death and l draco king. That would have been a fantastic idea and I wish I would have thought of it That is going to close things out for tonight I appreciate everybody coming out to watch this live and I appreciate anybody that's watching this In the video, um, let's get some man geese up in the chat if you're still around I much appreciate everybody coming out tonight. Um, this was kind of a spur of the moment thing So thank you so much to jelly knees and the viking jedi for uh for accommodating me on this crazy idea that I had And um, I was excited for it. I for us to do a tier list next Yeah, we will be doing some tier lists in the future for both games. Um I don't know that I think it's fun when we do tier lists because we have such a weird range of what we play Yes I'm straight up support mid And then yeah jelly's jungle a bit of adc some off lane.  It is much appreciate everybody coming out, but that is going to do it for tonight. Um