with the routine justice for all. Thank you, we have all alders present, I believe, except Alderman Bourne, who is excused. Alderperson Svalio is on the phone, is that correct? Correct, Marcus, are you there? Thank you. It sounds like you're in a satellite circling the globe, but welcome. Here's what we're going to do tonight. As you know, our only topic of discussion is the proposals that have come before the council for the armory property. We're going to have a public forum with nine speakers. We have nine speakers. Each of them will be able to speak for just three minutes. After that, I am going to ask the developers or proponents of the proposals who are present in the audience just to stand up and introduce themselves. If there is no objection, I would like to offer them floor privileges, in case any of the alders have questions about a specific proposal. And we would ask those folks to come up and just answer those questions for us. Sound OK? Yes. Perfect. All right, we can get going. Bill Thiel. Can you state your name and address for us, please, Bill? Absolutely, Bill Thiel. 1703 North 37th Street in Sheboygan. OK, you'll have three minutes. Thank you. Putting a timer up there for me. I am. I thought you said the timer. There you go. Hey, guys, how you all doing again? I'm coming in for the Committee of the Whole. I think as you know, when I was an older person, I was very passionate about the armory, saving the armory. And obviously, I still am. I was part of the group that was putting the proposal together to help save the armory, which I think is a very good one. Just wanted to let you know I was kind of disappointed this time with how the city went around, or how the city went and evaluated the proposals this time by coming up with a committee, which by being around a lot of people already were pretty negative towards the armory to begin with. I think that could have been a little different. And it kind of showed in the point values of how that was set up. I don't think it was really set up for somebody who wanted to redevelop the armory to have a favorable score in that system. So I'd like to see something different done there. Obviously, not much we can do about that now. But I just wanted to point that out with my feelings on that. Another thing I'd like to get an answer on is at the Historical Committee meeting, they put a 90-day hold on the project of demolition. And as far as I understood about the 90-day hold, is that was a given opportunity for some type of development to come forward to preserve the armory. As far as I'm concerned, two of them came forward. And those have never been addressed. They never went back to the Historical Society Committee to be addressed as a viable option of saving the armory. I feel we're missing a step here. And I think we really need to take a look back at this. And I think if it goes back to that area, they'll look at the two proposals that you have, the safety armory that are viable. And I think those should get voted on before even this RFP process goes along. So hopefully we can get an answer to that later on today. We did a lot of great things. I know when I was an alderman, I remember the last day sitting over there, we took a vote to save this great building here, City Hall. I think we got a couple of great places in the city of Sheboygan, this being one, and the army I believe is another one. And it's definitely worth saving. We did the vote, we took care of that. I know you guys have seen pictures of how gorgeous this place is gonna look in a few years. And it's just amazing. And I think the two proposals for the armory can do the same thing for that property down there and have great things come back down to the armory. To finish up, I'd like to just do a quote, I'm kind of a quote guy. Former First Lady Michelle Obama said, there are still many causes worth sacrificing for. So much history yet to be made. I feel the armory is worth sacrificing for and it still has a lot of history to give. So please save the armory. Thanks guys. Thank you. Dane Schaefer. Dane Schaefer, 3728 South 13th Street in Sheboygan. Thank you. You'll have three minutes. I'm the founder and a member of the Armory Community Project. This started for me by offering some creative ideas for a long running point of contention in our community about the city's desire to take away what has been my property, our property for decades and give it away with tax incentives to a private entity. I hope to spark leadership to engage the community to find a solution for the property, but that unfortunately never happened. My goal was not to organize citizens and create a formal proposal for the city, offering to take control of, renovate and operate the property. But I did, we did in less than three months because that's how important this is to me and our community. We created and presented a proposal that far exceeded the expectations of many within city leadership. In fact, I believe our proposal was so good that the task group, hopefully inadvertently, projected some of their preconceived opinions of our group in their assessment of our proposal. They say we would require funding from the city of an unknown amount. However, the proposal clearly asks only for the escrow of funds already allocated to clearing the land. That was included so the city would have the funds to remove the building should we fail to raise the necessary capital. Our proposal clearly stated that our organization would operate the facility, yet again, they claim otherwise. Finally, they say because our organization is new, we don't have any experience renovating or operating facilities. Ignoring that the lead members of this organization are an architect that specializes in historic renovation and a family that founded and operates a four unit regional restaurant chain. Do you feel comfortable making a decision on an issue this contentious based upon their recommendation when they got this much incorrect on just one of the proposals? See, I'm not here today to convince you that you need to select our proposal or that I have all the answers. I'm more than secure enough to admit that I don't and while I think our proposal is the best that was submitted, it's not perfect. Are you able to recognize when an issue is so important to the constituents you represent that it requires special attention? Are you willing to admit that taking away our property and giving it away while ignoring community voices is probably not the healthiest course of action for the city? At very least, I believe it is up to Common Council to independently review and consider every proposal in public meeting. Alternatively, you file the RFP proposals and either put the fate of the armory to referendum or engage the public and work together to find the most amicable solution for what has been for many years and should remain our property. Thank you. Thank you. Marie Stephenson. Hi, Marie. Can you state your name and address for us, please? Marie Stephenson, 305, yeah, 305 Scottson Avenue. Okay, Marie, you have three minutes. Okay. Good evening. My name is Marie Stephenson and tonight I am speaking in my capacity as a fellow neighbor of the armory and resident in the Ellis Historic District. Tonight you'll be urged by the review committee to accept a proposal from Scott Crawford, Inc. in regards to a 122 apartment slash retail space. The review committee will tell you that this is the best proposal because there is significant housing demand in Sheboygan and this will help bolster the housing availability to attract and retain new residents. I'd like to address three points tonight for your consideration voting against this plan and full support of repurposing the armory. I myself can personally attest to the limited housing. When I moved to Sheboygan in March of 2017, there were limited apartments to rent and a select few homes for sale. However, there were limited choices. There were still choices. Since that time, the city has seen a number of housing complexes constructed and finished, including the Encore Apartments, Portsgate Phase I and now High Point and all of the above are still accepting renters. The firm argument that there's no housing choices in Sheboygan is null. Sure, if we want to keep growing and progressing as an innovative city, no question, we will need more housing. But the situation is not so dire that we need to tear down historical buildings to accomplish this. The recommended proposal also includes first floor retail. If I'm not mistaken, there's currently retail space already available in the heart of Sheboygan with great incentives to move in, some that advertise a year of free rent. But where are the businesses filling these spaces? Between South Pier, downtown and Riverfront Drive, there is an abundance of commercial space already available that remains vacant. I would be challenging any developer with a proposal that includes retail space by asking what they're going to do differently to attract businesses as well as workers before we have yet another commercial entity that remains empty. Kind of the point of this project, right? When looking at the recommended deal, Scott Crawford, Inc. in the city are mutually benefiting in this situation plus the sum of 122 residents that could potentially live there. However, this doesn't seem to speak to the strategic plan that has been implemented by the city. A strategic plan that you as a council approved. Number one on that list of improvements is quality of life. And the city's number one key strategy for doing this is, quote, refurbish, maintain, develop and or expand public use places and spaces, end quote. I just don't see how one can argue that 122 apartments is worth losing the army when it doesn't, armory when it doesn't benefit the city as a whole. I asked, am I done, sorry. I asked the members of this committee to send apartment developers to other areas in the city. And they won't have to look far as the latches across the street from the army has conveniently been on the market for some time. As a resident, I can only hope that you take the voices of those who elected you into full consideration and vote on a plan that not only saves the armory, but repurposes it into something useful that will bring value to the city. I ask that you invest in your current residents and give them the quality of life they deserve while holding the city accountable to their strategic plan. That lake is our biggest asset. Let's not waste it. Give residents more than just condos and parks down by the lake. Make it a destination. Thankfully, there happens to be a local initiative amidst these proposals that's willing to do just that. Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Thank you. Mike Burnett, you just ate your name and address from your place. Mike Burnett, 1925 South 26th Street. Thank you, you'll have three minutes. All right, it's the armory, my favorite topic. And it's like, last thing I wanna see is apartments, but not my choice. And I like what I've heard from you guys so far. And I agree with Dane on one thing he said very much that at this point, you now have a whole bunch of proposals. This is the first the city, the citizens, are learning what they are. We haven't even totally learned what they are. A few of the groups put out there, pretty good. I mean, pretty much everything. A few of them put out pretty much everything. Some of them, we know they want apartments, this and that, da, da, da. We have studies, this is based on studies. We need apartments, blah, blah, blah. I'm looking at stuff online. And I'm seeing in candidates things, somebody's talking about the armory, and this is really coming up council elections. And condos in the Senate, you know, it's like, well, people are saying, well, yeah, these condos, it's enough, but well, these condos are full. So I'm looking up condos, and yeah, these condos are full, but 188 grand was the price on these condos when they were built. And I'm talking right now, I'm talking the rice ones, but these numbers apply to most of the condo projects that went down there. You look right now in Zillow, we're getting $88,000 a year on those places. That's what they're assessed at. That's less than half of the value when they were built. You take that around town from Cross Creek to, you name it, that is the story. You look online for rental apartments. You can find a pretty damn good place for around 750 bucks for utilities, not far from where this is going to be. This is Sheboygan. You go on the own Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation site, and you look at where they're telling what we need, and they're telling about a very much smaller number than what we're building of apartments, into $600 to $850 range. Not seeing a man, not at all. And then to make it even worse, we're building such a great number of apartments based on this. The original survey that they did was at a retreat mostly people from Collar and Plymouth, around 100 and some people. They had about 18 people who said, I would definitely love to live in downtown Sheboygan. If you had apartments for $6 to $850, you would all this cool stuff. And it's like, hey, great. And you look at it, you had like 18 out of 100, nine of them already lived in downtown Sheboygan, which means nine if you had a way better deal than what we're ever offering. And to try to shorten it up a little, going forward on this for all of our schemes, which is anything, it's not a bad word, it's just when you have an idea of making money, it's what it is. We tend to have these really high in the sky. Everything's gonna be worth a bazillion dollars 20 years from now.   Unless you were following, this war was fought several years ago, and we won it decisively with the Armory Foundation. Mike, your time's up. Thank you. I am done. Sally Carson. Sally Carson, 320 Lincoln Ave. Three minutes, Sally. Thank you. Hello, my name is Sally Carson. I'm a part of the Armory Project Committee. I'm a four-year resident of the city and an 11-year resident of Wisconsin, but I am not a native of Sheboygan. In fact, I've never even set foot in the Armory. Nevertheless, I can see that the Armory is something that's a large part of the community, and we can envision it being a large part of the community again. Sheboygan has the potential to be a destination instead of a place to pass through on the way to somewhere else. I'm interested mainly in the aspects of what the Armory could mean for small businesses. There are wonderful shop locations up and down 8th Street and other locations around the city, but rent can be high for someone who wants to start a small business and see if they can build into a larger space without having to take out an exorbitant loan. The business incubators give people a chance to start in a manageable space and build a following to be able to grow and contribute to our city and its economic landscape. The Armory Project has the potential to house a mix of business ideas, family activities, and large events that has the chance to become more than just a community building. Let's get people to stay here, spend money here instead of traveling and spending money in other cities. You've seen what our committee can get done in a short amount of time. Please consider that none of us have taken the prospect of what is to come lightly. We all understand it will take work, but it's work that we believe in. Once this building is gone, we'll never get the opportunity it presents back. Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Thank you. Jarrett Straughn. Can you state your name and address for us please? My name is Jarrett Straughn and my address is 2203 North 6th Street here in the city. Thank you, you'll have three minutes. It's going to be a fast three, isn't it, Merith? I'm glad I was here for the other speakers. Many of the things that I had so carefully crafted into what would have been my three minutes this afternoon has been addressed some measure. I'm a newcomer to Sheboygan. I've been here 23 years. I came here to be close to my in-law family. My mother-in-law's family were the Cupsils, my father-in-law's family were the Stollwolves. I came here to be close to my in-law family, which should explain something about how silly it can be for an older fellow who wants to raise children in our nice town. We moved here to be close to our in-law family. You understand that? I love this town. I love this town. I came here from a place called Beloit. Any of you that read The New York Times regularly know that the Hendricks family has turned that into utter mecca for refurnishing, refurbishing, reconstruction for renovation, for historical survival, if you will, for some important businesses. In our case, we have two buildings left in this town that might merit that kind of attention. One is the courthouse. And the other one, some people in this room would like to tear down.  I'm sorry, I'm not running for anything, and my livelihood does not depend on the people in this room carrying one way or another about what I have to say.  I raised five people in this town with my wife, and that armory needs to be the anchor. And it can only be done with one of the proposals. I know that you're entertaining one from a company known as Scott Carson. I understand they're actually the leading contenders. I suggest that you go online and try to find a single project that Scott Carson has ever completed. Take a look, and then suggest to me as a taxpayer that you wanna blow 500,000 to destroy a good building and then give them the rights to an acre of land. Uh-uh, big mistake. Mr. Lewandowski, wake up. We need to have at least another six to 12 months to look at legitimate proposals. I suggest to you that Scott Carson's is not legitimate.  You see this? It actually was the most detailed of all the plans that the city received, correct, yes? And it may not be with us after tonight. Thank you very much. Thank you. Leslie Kohler. Hi Leslie, can you state your name and address for us please? Leslie Kohler, 2311, County trunk Y in the township. You'll have three minutes please. Thank you. I like Jarrett, love the city. I don't think anybody think I was a newcomer. I'm from sixth generation, but anyway, I am not for or against any of the proposals. What I do want to state is that the armory is a huge problem. I have wonderful memories of going to concerts there, seeing Jesus Christ superstar, all that. It was part of my youth as well. But the fact of the matter is that building has major issues, and it will be a great expense to renovate it, to restore it. So they're gonna do venues there. They're gonna use that as another venue in town. Well, there was a great deal of community support behind renovating the Sheboygan theater. And that had a lot of financial problems. And it's only been more recently that it is actually running in the black. And for them to have to compete with another venue and to maintain what they are doing, they do have a great deal of community support, or they wouldn't be in the black. And then I think the third thing I need to say is, whatever happens down there, we need to really realize that our waterfront really is a great asset. And whatever happens down there really, really needs to be a plus for this city, okay? And this has been 20 years, and that building is falling apart, and it is a huge problem. And we can love what our past is, but that sometimes saving the past isn't the thing that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Jennifer Lurkey, I apologize if I got your name wrong. Please state your name and address for us, please. Jennifer Lurkey, 111 Highland Drive, Glen Bula. Thank you, three minutes. I'm curious about just how much research the RFP reviewers did in evaluating the recommended proposal. A search of the respondents website shows just three commercial scale multifamily projects spanning the last year and a half. Searches of recent newspaper articles state that the land has not actually been purchased for any of those projects, nor has a shovel entered the ground, yet the respondent claims they'll be under construction here in Sheboygan in the next seven to eight months. The largest of the three projects on that website is projected at 9.7 million, yet the RFP reviewers were confident that the respondent could pull off a $26 million project here in Sheboygan. In addition, a simple circuit cord access search of the principal was equally enlightening. Check it out for yourself. I don't see where the benefit to the city is in the recommended proposal. The respondent offered to pay half a million for the site, but the city will spend close to half a million on demolition, which is net zero for the city. In addition, the respondent requested $4 million in TIF, which will put the city $4 million in the hole and take 18 years to pay back. Speaking of TIF, I was told in a November 2017 meeting with the mayor, the city administrator, the director of planning, and the director of public works who comprised the bulk of the very biased RFP reviewers that no TIF would be available for any of the respondents to the RFP. I feel like I was blatantly misled and lied to. In addition, the recommended project offers no jobs, no sales tax, no room tax. This recommendation doesn't add up. I beg the committee to reconsider the RFP reviewers' recommendation. If you're still compelled to proceed with their recommendation, please put some necessary precautions in place in the developer's agreement, requiring plan commission, architectural review board, redevelopment authority if applicable, and building plan review and approvals, plus building permits and closing on the financing, actual closing on the financing before demolition of the armory. This was perhaps the least experienced proposal the city received, and it could still easily fall through. I found the RFP review of our proposal. I am involved with the Armory Community Project to be accidentally misread or blatantly misled. I'm not sure which at this point. Overall, we found the published RFP review to be an untruthful representation of our proposal, which would generate $90,000 annually in property taxes, not the 55,000 cited, within 12 to 18 months, plus sales tax, room tax, associated visitor spending, as well as personal property tax for the tenants in the building. You know, our city didn't have a prayer of another nonprofit project that I was involved with succeeding more than a decade ago back in 2006, and they cited, who's gonna run it? How are they gonna be able to maintain it? What happens when we inherit a big mess when they fail? You know what that project was? That project was Bookworm Gardens, and it hosted 60,000 visitors in 2016, and look what a wonderful addition that has been to our community. Finally, I leave you with one last request. There's only one armory, but there are plenty of other developable sites downtown near the river and lakefront, heck, on the river and lakefront that are more desirable than the site, many of which were identified in a 2017 report by the Schwoing County Economic Development Corp. We have four multifamily developers, including Gorman, and a boutique hotel developer that expressed an interest in our community. Why are we not going for the gold? Ma'am, your time is up. And Negotiate. Oh, one more. One more. Tracy Kaderabek? Tracy, could you state your name and address for us, please? We'll do. Sure. Tracy Kaderabek, 16317 Dairyland Drive, Cleveland. Thank you. You'll have three minutes. Thanks. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Tracy Kaderabek. I am here representing TDK Group LLC, and I am honored to be able to address you today to discuss the future of the armory. So many before me today that have spoken have stolen a lot of my thunder, so I will try and get through what I can. My plan was one of two submitted with the purpose to repurpose the armory and use it as a venue for concerts, trade shows, receptions, and other public events. Our company has secured $750,000 in funds from our lender as well as investing our own personal equity to see this project through to grand opening. Past projects have given us the experience we need to complete this project while being mindful of actual cost of repairs and improvements to the armory. We need to complete this project while being mindful of the actual cost. In my email to you earlier this past week, I pointed out a few examples of our resourcefulness in spending wisely. Our boatworks project in Manitowoc is a perfect example of how large spaces can be repaired and restored into usable space without spending millions to use the building for a new purpose. We simply will not blindly spend exorbitant amounts during this project and will be accounting for every dollar. It is our dollars going into the project and they need to be paid back. So we will be needing to spend them wisely for why spending is the basis of how all businesses are started and how they are run. The armory building itself is not as bad off as people believe it to be. We toured the armory this past summer. The roof leaks are due to a lack of caulk around roof drains and the basement flooding is in part from breaks in the sewer main. Many of the issues in the building are the result of lack of maintenance and how that affects many components of the building. The building is structurally sound. Our plan saves a historic building from the wrecking ball. While we are mindful of the need for market rate and affordable housing in Sheboygan, we fail to see how the costs associated with using this site for that outweigh the benefits of using the armory as an entertainment venue for Sheboygan. The venue is a draw to Sheboygan as it offers an entertainment option so many millennials are looking for in a community to call home, not to mention us old folks who wouldn't mind seeing a big band of the armory from time to time. The city is lacking in venues that have the ability to offer indoor concerts with standing room as well as the ability to provide a space for indoor boat and RV shows with the large door that the armory provides for. This building is an icon of Sheboygan's DNA. Tracy, your time's up. Sorry, thank you. Thank you. All right, very good. Some of the developers were speakers, but if other developers who have not spoken would stand up and introduce yourselves. Start over here. Thank you. Any other developers in the audience? Yes, Tracy. And we have Dane and Jennifer. Anyone else? Okay, very good. We'll get moving then and I would ask for an approval of the minutes of our October 9th, 2017 meeting. So moved. Second. Any discussion? Very none. All in favor, state aye. Aye. Any opposed? Oh, thank you, Marcus. We're going to start our discussion on items 3.1 and 3.2, which will basically be discussed together. I'd like to have Bernie Romer and Roberta Felicki Pineski. Bernie is the purchasing agent for the city. Roberta is a citizen member of the Armory Review Task Group. If you want to come forward and unfortunately our PowerPoint is not quite up to speed. So you'll just have to be very vibrant in your descriptions and so forth to help us along. Good evening. Then ask to provide a little background on where the Armory has been in the past 12, 12 years or so. And Bernie, if I can interrupt, this is the, I think all the alders have a copy of this and some of the audience do. The Armory closed to public events back in 2005. That was a result of not only a low usage by groups, but also it recognized the maintenance costs associated with keeping the Armory alive and open. 2010, Spaceport came to the city and asked to occupy the space for the Spaceport Museum. 2012, late 2012, Spaceport vacated and went down to the South Pier. At that point in time, the city essentially winterized the Armory, drained down the heating systems, drained down the water, shut off the boilers and made it into kind of a cold storage type thing. It's quite costly to heat even above freezing. 2014, we were directed to issue a request for proposals for the reuse or redevelopment of the Armory as a building. Part of that was a nationwide search for developers. Over 1,000 contacts were made, two proposals were received. The SEAS Group, Sailing Education Association of Sheboygan, proposed to demolish the building and develop apartments and a corporate headquarters site. An Oshkosh developer proposed market rate housing for the entire site. Common Council in 2014 directed that we move forward with the SEAS proposal. The Armory at that point in time was prepared for demolition. The all interior furnishings and fixtures were sold. Letting as best as testing was completed. The Historic Preservation Commission enacted a 90-day hold at that time to seek out other interested parties to redevelop the building. We showed the property to two interested parties who ultimately came to the conclusion that the cost was too much to rehabilitate the building. During that 90-day hold, the SEAS Group also withdrew their application because of a purchase of a property that came available on South A Street just north of the Street Bridge. And after going back to the Oshkosh developer who proposed apartments for the entire site, he expressed no interest in moving forward either. 2016, of course, the Milwaukee Bucks Dealey proposal came to the forefront. And as we know, they chose Oshkosh over Sheboygan. During the last couple of years, there's been little or no interest expressed in the building. And we have seen some additional deterioration of the building. May of 17, I was directed to seek demolition bids and also issue a companion request for proposals for redevelopment of the site following demolition of the building. September 17, Common Council awarded demolition bids to convenient construction in the amount of 355,573.78, which included abatement of asbestos and lead-based paint. And of course, in November of 2017, Historic Preservation Commission imposed second 90-day hold on demolition. At this point, I'll turn it over to Ms. Roberta Fulicki-Pineski. Good evening. My name is Roberta Fulicki-Pineski and I am here to speak on behalf of the committee that reviewed this. And the reason I got the short straw is that the RFP are my initials. Roberta Fulicki-Pineski just thought I'd share that. Okay, all right, we received on January 3rd, a pack, well, shortly after January 3rd, this pack of information, six proposals. And with these six proposals, we each received everybody on the committee, each received one sheet of paper with all of the criteria, which I will go through with you shortly. But we each received six proposals and we each received these and we're instructed to put our comments here, fill this out and come prepared for our first meeting. We did that. Then when we got to the first meeting, we each received this matrix, which further clarified which proposals and which criteria were there. And you notice there are blanks at the bottom of this. So the blanks at the bottom were places where each of the individuals on that committee could score right there additional comments. The committee met fully twice. We met the first time to review the proposals at that point when we reviewed the proposals, we looked at the top two by consensus, by scoring, we looked at the top two. We actually called in the city attorney and said, what can we do and what can't we do? And it was permissible to call in the top two for questions regarding only what they had in the proposals. So that's what we did. The committee then met for the second time and we had by phone one developer and by presence the second developer. And the group met probably for two and a half hours and further inquired about the proposals. At that point, we then proceeded with our recommendation. But I'd like to go back to the criteria because here's the criteria that was on that first sheet of paper plus the criteria on the matrix. And this was council approved criteria for the RFP. The proposal includes a use or a variety of uses which complements downtown Sheboygan. The proposal maximizes taxable value to the city. The proposal offers a reasonable purchase price slash lease rate to the city. The proposer offers financial strength and can implement and construct quickly. And the high quality design personnel and contractors are available to complete the project. That was the criteria we worked with and that was the criteria that this body approved for the RFP. So what I will do now is go through each of the, and the alders have this in front of them, each of the proposals and I will give you the strengths and the weaknesses that we summarized as a group. TDK Group, their strengths was they provided a variety of uses and it would be privately owned. They would pay property tax. We didn't know the amount, but we knew they would be paying property tax. Weaknesses, the proposer would purchase the building for $10 and require an unknown amount of TID financing incentives. They lacked data, the proposal, lacked data about the anticipated assessed property value. They had very limited information on renovation costs. No financial projections on construction and operations were provided. And the proposer had no facility redevelopment or facility operating experience for a facility of this kind. The next proposal is the Armory Community Project proposal. And this project suggested renovation of the current building into a state of the art community center and a 40 multifamily new housing unit immediately behind. So not only did they want to preserve the Armory, what is now the parking lot, would be the 40 unit housing unit. The committee determined that the strengths of this project was that it did indeed provide a variety of uses. The separate housing component, 40 market rate apartments, had an estimated value of 6.6 million, which would return 55,000 in tax to the city. And the strength was, if the proposal could not financially work, they would re-deed the property back to the city on 1231.18 if the funding wasn't acquired. That was kind of a double-edged sword. That's a strength, it's also a weakness. If it comes back on the 18, 1231.18, the whole process that started in 2014 starts again. The weaknesses, property is purchased for a dollar. It requires city funding allocated for the demolition to be put into escrow. No funding is in place, the budget was 7.7 million. To be owned by a yet to be created not for profit entity. So there is a name, but there is not a legal entity, that is proposing this, that is yet to be created. Since the not for profit has yet to be created, there was no facility redevelopment or facility, facility operating experience within that entity. And this was brought up in conversation. There is no evidence that there is market demand to be able to support the proposed type of entertainment use that this says. The next proposal, are you with me? The next proposal was true vine development. And this proposal provided for 155 market rate apartments in two phases. The strengths of this proposal, the estimated property assessed value of 35.5 million, and that was the highest. 35.5 million could return 300,000 to taxes to the city. And the proposal had a quality design. The weaknesses were that the proposer would purchase the property for a dollar and require incremental financing of 3.1 million. The second weakness was that the property would be developed in two phases. Phase one in 2019 and phase two in 2020. The weaknesses would delay the demolition of the armory to coincide with phase two, which likely would require a reissuing of the contract for the demolition. And the review group was concerned with two phases, two phased approaches that the developer perhaps would not complete the second phase of the development. The next proposal was T-Wall Enterprises. And this had a project of 198 units of market rate apartments. Strengths of this proposal included an estimated property assessed value of 31.8 million with 269,000 returning to the city in taxes. The proposed use does complement the downtown Sheboygan process. The weaknesses are that the purchase property, they would purchase the property for a dollar and would require all of the increment from the project, which would total 11 million dollars. The project would be constructed in three phases, not one, not two, but three. And there were no renderings provided to determine the design of that project. The next one was Catelas Group. And when I got my pack of data, all of that, I immediately opened it and just looked at the pictures on the cover of each one. And this was a surprise to me because this projects for a hotel. Proposal provides for an $18.6 million $125 room lakefront hotel and conference center. The strengths, the project would be completed in one phase. The proposer would cover the cost of the parking structure which was included with the project. The pro forma included the cost of demolition which was the savings to the city of $355,000. It would have an $18.6 million assessed value returning $157,000 in taxes to the city. The weakness, they would purchase the property for $100, they perhaps would require incremental funding. The amount was unknown. The weaknesses was they weren't sure of the vitality of the project with up to three new hotels which are entering our hotel market in the next 18 months. And it was unknown whether the hotel would be a franchise hotel or it would be independently owned otherwise known as a boutique hotel. I might come back to that shortly. Okay, the next one, and if you have what I have, this is out of order so we'll come back to that one. Okay, the next is Scott Crawford, Inc. This proposal provides for 122 units of mixed use housing. Approximately 48 units of this is what we call affordable housing. 74 units are market rate housing and that market rate housing unit also includes townhouse rental homes of two and three bedroom. The proposal provides for approximately 8,600 square feet of commercial space on the first floor. The strength of the Crawford report including purchasing the property for a half a million, $500,000. 26 million of assessed value returning 220,000 to the city and taxes. And it would be constructed in one phase. There was substantial developer equity in the pro forma of approximately $7.2 million. The financial commitment for mortgage amounts was provided. The project would start construction in the fall of 2018 and it would be completed in the spring of 2020. The weakness is that it would require approximately $4 million in incremental financing. That would be in the form of a tax rebate. It wouldn't be upfront cash. So next page and it is in the proper order. The next page is provided by this page. It looks like this folks. That page was provided to us by the developer when we had both developers in on the second meeting. So according to an article in the Sheboygan press, the vacancy rate of Sheboygan has been as low as 0.4% below the statewide average of 3.96% and the national average of 4.2%. 57% of survey respondents earned over $50,000 in yearly salary. 10% of the residents made over 150,000 a year. 82% of the respondents wanted two or three bedroom units in a downtown development. The next page I have looks like this. Again, based on the analysis, the structures in the Crawford report has a seven story multifamily unit of 62 apartments, 12 one bedroom, 28 two bedroom, 22 three bedroom. In the five story unit, five story building, there are 48 apartments, 30 are one bedroom, 18 are two bedroom and there are a series of town homes planned for the north part of the property which faces the apartments if you have a visual, faces the apartments with the red brick, 12 units and those are all three bedroom town homes. Then, let's see, maybe I just had an extra page folks. Nope, this was part of the analysis. Part of this developer has worked a couple of times, has been through the city and has been working with the Shboyton County Economic Development Corporation but additional database for his proposal was that there are job over 280 job openings in this county that pay over $50,000 a year. Average household income here is 62,255, household net worth average 414,000, unemployment rate 2.9% in our county population of 115. So, what we did was take the data. We had our developer from, he was in North Carolina and he sat with us on the phone and I, for one, I will only speak for myself but we were working with him, we were asking him specific questions and I believe it was Mayor Van Der Stee who was in the room who said, are you aware of the fact that we were pressing for? Is this going to be a franchise or is this going to be a boutique hotel? And Mayor Van Der Stee said, are you aware of that? These three hotels are going in and you could hear his voice go, oh, it was apparent that he was not aware and he very specifically said, I wasn't aware of that, I have to rethink because that determined that that perhaps would not be viable for him to come in and develop. So, the next group we had was Scott Crawford. He arrived with his, there would be proposed, would be an on-site manager for the apartments, brought his architect and we said, are you aware of how close this is to the lake and the river and he said, yeah, I am, brought the construction manager and himself who spoke about finances. So in the end, the committee recommended Scott Crawford Inc. for your consideration. Based upon the fact that the proposal mixes use of development with both affordable and market rate housing and earlier you heard some numbers, the rents for this would be between $715 and $850 a month for the affordable units and the committee paused and said, everybody should be able to live near the lake. Proposals, first floor commercial space and I envisioned, and I don't think I've told anybody this, but I envisioned a restaurant called the Armory Bar and Restaurant. And there was a strong financial plan in place. There was a strong management team. It would be completed in one phase. There was the $7.2 million in substantial developer equity and the developer had very specifically done research on the need for additional units. The timing for the development is right and currently the market is stable. I come from a financial background and I know what even a quarter of a percent of an interest rate means to developers and it's significant. So based upon all of those, all of those thoughts and observations, we have come to you with the recommendation that we be able to you would empower the city to begin discussion and a development contract with Scott Crawford. Before we start any discussion for our con, does anyone have questions for either Bernie or Bert? Alder Schneider. Yes, I was just curious. How did the scores end up? As I see you had a scoring process. Do you know what those scores were for each of them? I don't have that. I don't know who does. Does anyone in the room have them? I have mine. Any other questions? Ken, can we get them? They were not collected. The recommendation of the task force was unanimous of those participating to recommend Scott Crawford. Sir, sir, we're really not opening the floor at this point, thank you. Are there any questions of Bert and Bernie? I feel like this is a show. I'm sorry, the Bert and Bernie show of Bernie or Bert before we enter into discussion. Okay, thank you very much, appreciate it. Likely other questions will come up, so don't leave. Is there any discussion on either 3.1 or 3.2? Alder Hoshu?  Thank you very much. I have some major concerns. In 2014, the Sheboygan Economic Development Corporation did a study of all the living arrangements in the city of Sheboygan. At that time, they took a group of different apartments, called them, did two calls. One of the properties that I managed was involved in that. And I think when I'm talking about property management, I can speak with some authority, as I've done it for 35 years of my life. They did a study to see how many apartments needed in Sheboygan. But they did this study in the middle of winter. Everybody's apartments are full in the middle of winter. I personally do not believe that we need more apartments above and beyond what we've just built. I think we're satisfying our area. What no one addresses, and I made the same statement when they came before us for each of these different housing departments, was retention. How do you plan on having retention of these people in these apartments? The city has to offer something. They have to offer entertainment. They have to offer something. Great restaurants, great shopping. I can tell you, not a lot of people are seeing that in Sheboygan. And so if there's anything that has anything to do with apartments, I just think that for some reason, they just keep piling these apartments that we need them so badly. And we just really don't. We have three brand new projects that are gonna adequately take care of our needs. You can rental rate of $1,200 a month. You can get a $215,000 home for that amount. And that includes your taxes. The rate that was studied that did need, and I will clearly say we need more one bedrooms, but we need it between four and six, maybe four and $700 a month. That's what the market's looking for. We're inundated in two-bedroom apartments. We have a lack of three-bedroom apartments. I am not in favor, and will not be voting in favor of anything that has anything to do with building more apartments. And I think that the study done in 2014 was slanted because it was done in winter, and I'm not the only property manager that said something to them about it. So that was done four years ago, and I just do not believe we need another bunch of apartments. We have more Section 8 WEDA and tax credit properties than we do conventional, and that's an attraction to people in other states that like our system better than their own. So they're coming in dwells to live in our subsidized and voucher programs. I just don't think we need it. But we do need, if someone comes to Sheboygan and says, you know what? I sure would like to build a brand new house for myself. There's no land. Now that we've annexed that land, that's off of Stahl Road, we're gonna be able to afford them an opportunity to build houses. There's gonna be some subdivisions off of South 12th Street, where people can build a home if they'd like to, where we've never had that opportunity.  Because most people, they think, oh, cutie, they're making these big salaries. They're not. It's like 35,000 a year. So I don't know where they come up with these numbers. If this was all, why was a point system instillated? If no one can even tell us what the point system answers were. What was the point of doing a point system? And I think we should have had pros and cons for, did we get pros and cons for every single one of these, we had strengths and weaknesses. I would like to see the armory repurposed. So I won't be in voting in favor of anything that has to do with building yet more apartments. Alder-Truster. I have gone through all the proposals. And I've gotta tell ya, they all seem to have quite a bit of merit. But I am not sitting in this chair right now because I think a proposal has merit. I'm sitting in this chair right now because I have been voted in by the people. And by golly, my phone hasn't stopped and it's been a lot worse since the mayor was on the radio. The people of Sheboygan are passionate about their armory. They do not want the armory torn down and they want that armory at any cost. They feel and I'm just relaying the message. What people have been telling me is that the city of Sheboygan has taken so much away from them and saying that we need this, the city needs to grow in the city, the city, the city. But what about the people that have lived here that have supported this city that lived here all their lives? There's an awful lot of them that have history and they want their armory. We're not, the city of Sheboygan is willing to stick their hands in the pockets of the citizens of Sheboygan for $11 million to refurbish City Hall. But they're not willing to give the people who are paying that $11 million the armory that they want. They want that armory and they're passionate about it. They don't like the idea that we've taken away D-Land Park and given us a marina, which 90% of the people of Sheboygan don't use because we can't afford it. They don't like the idea that we're taking away the armory. There's no place to shop here in town. We go out of town to shop. We love walking down the street of Cedarburg and all the little shops. The city of Sheboygan has killed the city, the downtown of Sheboygan. We've got a library where an anchor store should be. Now we have an apartment building where another huge store could be. There's nothing to draw small shops downtown because nobody's downtown. Give us the armory and give us a place where we can feel that this is home and keep the people here and the people downtown. A while back somebody in this council chamber said that the population of Sheboygan has stayed the same for the last 20 years. Well, what they haven't said was that the population of the town and the surrounding areas has grown because people are fed up. There's nothing here to keep the people here. Give them something to keep them here. I will not vote in favor of apartments on the armory site. Well, they're Lewandowski. Yes. Just past summer we were showing the results of a citizen survey. And most of the comments that I saw were save the armory. We don't need any more apartments. So I'm going to vote against apartments also. And for many years the armory was basically a community center. We don't have a community center now. And if we build apartments down there, we certainly won't have one then. And the apartments are not going to be able to be used by the people of Sheboygan only by a certain few that can afford to rent them. So I'm going to vote against any apartments. Any other discussion, Alder Sorenson? For me this discussion is not really about whether or not we need more apartments. I think for me this is really about the armory. I think that I was part of the last generation that got to really experience the armory before it was kind of shut off from the public. I do have a few questions about some of the proposals. And I don't know, I'll ask the chairwoman if it's all right if I can call up Dane Schaefer to just ask some questions relating to his proposal. That's fine. And I just kind of want to set up why I'm asking some of these questions. So I think being one of the newer members on the council, I had to do a little research about the history of the armory and the city and what we wanted to do with it. Like any good council member I did, my research poking around a little bit. I think 2014 when the debate was around whether or not we should keep the heat on and what to do with the armory. A lot of the discussion was based around well we would keep the armory but we don't have any tangible plans or ideas to keep the armory. And I think right now, I think we have a group that's dedicated and put together a very thought out plan to keep and preserve the armory. Now with that, there's still a lot of money and funding that has to be part of it as well. So Dane, I guess a few questions for you and your group. I'm looking at your sources of revenue. And I think you guys rely heavily on some tax credits. Specifically the state historical tax credit. Now right now in General Chai Min or Mayor Van Der Sen Chai Min, if I'm wrong with any of these numbers relating to the state historical tax credit or the federal historical tax credit for that member. But right now isn't the state historical tax credit capped at $500,000? Right, oh, sorry. But the state legislature is they're doing something right now to remove that cap. Jennifer would be a lot better at answering these questions. Okay, yeah, I don't know who to answer. Again, Jennifer Lurkey, legacy architecture. I'm a historic tax credit consultant. It's what I do for a living. That sounds fun. I'm also a member of the Wisconsin Historic Tax Credit Coalition. We have our own lobbyist in Madison and I participate in bi-weekly phone calls on the status of what's going on with our state historic tax credit right now. That cap does not kick in until July 1st of 18. So currently it is uncapped. There is legislation that was approved through Joint Finance Committee last week to put a, I don't know if you wanna call it a patch on the program, but basically there's a $500,000 cap that is supposed to go into a fact July 1st. The cap would be raised to $3.5 million with this legislation that has just passed through Joint Finance Committee. They could be voting on it as early as this week. And it's got bipartisan support. It's widely cosponsored by both sides of the aisle. We are fully expecting it to pass. Meetings with Governor Walker's chief of staff said he will not veto it. And so we have every reason to believe that it's gonna be passing soon. But the cap does not kick in until July 1st. And another question regarding naming rights, stage naming rights. You guys have a lot of naming rights in here also for funding. Has there been any discussion or any potential sponsorships for naming rights? Anyone come forward and give suggestions? I'm looking for just some sort of commitment from unyieldside groups that have put that forward. Definitely. This was a double-edged sword for us. And we had a lot of discussion after the proposal was submitted on January 3rd. Do we move forward and get some soft commitments or not? Ultimately, our group decided to not move forward until we had any indication from the city whatsoever that they were gonna take our proposal seriously. Personally, I was anticipating maybe a phone call or an email a week after the proposal was submitted, saying, hey, we suggest you get some soft commitments. And if you can bring them in, let's talk. But we never received any kind of communication like that. So, and obviously when you're approaching a project like this, you get one shot to talk to these donors. We didn't wanna do that without having any kind of indication from the city that we had a prayer. I guess, sorry, kind of to expand what she started touching there was, we had three months to do this and we put together what you guys have all seen now in three months. The last thing that we wanted to do was be unprepared when we enter somebody's office to ask them for millions of dollars to make something like this happen. And we wanted to put together the best, I guess product, project possible for you guys. So we spent the time on that. We think that if you look at the history of Sheboygan in terms of the Weil Center and the YMCA, that finding with city support when there's not city employees and elected officials in the paper kind of beaten up on what you're trying to do and when there's support behind it, that this kind of money isn't, it's not even crazy. I think both the YMCA and the Weil Center were more, were larger projects than this. The Weil Center was 10 million, the YMCA was 7.8 or 8. So about the same. So I don't think that, I'm not saying that I can't guarantee anything here if I could. I think that we'd be in a completely different meeting but I think that we've shown that this community is willing to step up to make these types of projects happen when they're meaningful. And to hit on that tax credit a little bit too because it's been questioned about our ability to pull the historic tax credits in the paper and also some phone calls and other comments I've received. This is what I do for a living. Our firm in the last four years has secured $15.5 million in historic tax credits in communities all over the state, from Green Bay to Kokona to Plymouth, our neighbor, to Waukesha, just in the last four years on seven, eight projects. It's what we do. It's not a competitive, the historic tax credits are not competitively let out. If the building is a historic building, which it is, it qualifies, it's 20% of the construction costs. We have automatically a million dollars coming in for federal, a million dollars coming in for state, which means we need to raise another 4.1, sorry, for the construction costs alone. Ms. Lurke, I just had a follow-up point because when we spoke, you basically guaranteed. Correct. So there is no question. There is no question whatsoever. I've been in talks with the Wisconsin Historical Society about this building for the last three years I've had members of the Wisconsin Historical Society in the building. There's no question about its eligibility. It's a matter of filling out the paperwork. Now, one of the things that we would need to do is to start filling out that paperwork to secure it as a letter from the city saying they are aware that we have filed the paperwork. Another question that I have. Oh, go ahead. I got a few questions. So I'm gonna hold the floor for a little bit. Another, I was actually very intrigued with the proposal too about the apartment, the apartment building on that site. Do you feel like that would interfere anyway with the Armory's operation at all? Or I'm just kind of thinking, what was the... No, none whatsoever. I reached out to a handful of developers to see who wanted to partner with us. In fact, the only reason why T-Wall knew about this proposal and submitted a proposal was because I met with them to talk to them about partnering with us. Gorman, we were really hoping to partner with Gorman. We feel like Gorman was the most experienced apartment multifamily developer that was included in the six. There got three projects here in Sheboygan already. They've done work all over the country. Hands down, Slam Dunk, I think the most experienced developer. They were actually attracted to partnering with us because of the potential of the community center and the Armory. That was actually a selling point for them. They wanted to be next door to that. They wanted to, some of the ideas we've been talking about, they liked that. They thought it would be an amenity to their tenants and it would actually make their tenants wanna live next to that building. Do you feel like having that apartment building on that property, that if we were parking at all? We did a full parking study that was in, I forget if we showed the entire parking study in the report or not. Excuse me, I'm just. Oh yeah, it's under the predicted vulnerabilities on page five. So we looked at a two black radius around the site. We found there's 683 stalls off site that are either publicly owned by the county or by the city. Most zoning regulations require three, or sorry, one parking space per three or per four visitors to a venue such as this. And that would more than cover our expected peak attendees at a venue like this. And we need to keep in mind, there's only ever been, we looked at that gravel parking lot. There's about 80 parking spaces there. There's only ever been in the history of that building, 80 parking spaces on site ever. And we were planning on putting 41 back onto the site. Also the peak of the building in its history has been about 3,500 attendees. We're only looking at 2,500 attendees. Kind of another follow up question with apartments. So Gorman, I know that they subsidize apartments at all. Would this be subsidized in any way? No, they wanted to do market rate for this. Oh yeah, on the actual apartments, are you saying like a tip? I mean, either way, it's no, no, no. Okay, I guess I wanted to add kind of. That would only drag the timeline out further. Jumping back a little bit, as she said, I don't believe that it would greatly affect our ability to do what we wanna do by adding an apartment. But I guess I want to point out that, in my opinion at least, it's not ideal. It's not what I want. It's what I think, it's a show of good faith that if your guys' goal and agenda with this property is to raise property taxes, let's do that. Let's work together, let's find a solution together that we can all be happy with. That's why I think that that's really there. Again, at the end of the day, if you guys believe that we need to raise those funds, have some more rooms down there, great, that option is there, we're going to have that ability to do it, and I don't think that it will affect our ability to operate there. And in fact, I think that it may be mutually beneficial in the sense that people that live there will have something right outside their door that attracts them, and we get more people coming in that live right there, so yeah, I guess. But you believe you could get the project done without the apartments, correct? Unrelated to one another. Yeah, in terms of finances or whatever, it's unrelated. Again, this was just, because kind of like I said earlier in my three minutes, I want to work with the city. I want to come to a solution that makes the citizens happy and helps you guys reach your goals, and that's kind of what we're trying to do here, was show that this isn't just, well, we don't care what you think, keep this building by any means, and screw all of your plans, it was, let's find a solution, let's work on this, let's talk about it. That's all the questions I had for you guys, but I do have more questions for Dave Bebel. Dave, if you could come on down. My question's more for you, Dave, I think in kind of setting up this, is I think one of my concerns is, like Roberto was talking about before, the market for something like this. Can you kind of give a background about the usage for the armory? What would that look like? Have there been any requests since 2005 for something like the armory at all, or any background information would be helpful? Sure. That's kind of an open end question, but I'll try to be as direct to that question as possible. I've been with the city and the Department of Public Works for 30 years. We managed the armory, we rented that armory as part of our office. Starting, I have figures from 98 on it, I tried to go back and try to dig out some more information, but starting in 1998, we started having these debates about the armory. We had two full-time caretakers there, we were keeping care of the building, we were basically subsidizing the facility to the community by offering very reasonable rates for rental. In 1998, we had 57 events that year, and out of that, we generated revenue from the rent, and the revenue was 23,500 roughly. In 1999, it went down to 42 events that year, seemed for 2000, but then in 2001, it went to 37 events. 2002, it went to 29 events. 2003, 26 events, 2004, and then 2005, there was only 21 events for the entire year that were booked at the armory. So that was really what was driving the discussion back in the day was it's a big facility, takes a lot of money to keep the lights and keep it heated, as well as maintained. During this time, other venues were starting to open. Blue Harbor was built in their convention center. The school district built the field houses, no longer was the high school basketball games. Other venues such as the Wild Center opened up for entertainment and theater. The armory, many of you recall, is basically a gymnasium with a stage at the end of it, and in fact, the upper areas of the balcony, when we would have stage events, you'd have a quarter of it couldn't be rented out for seats, basically couldn't sell seats because you had no view of the stage from that end. So it was back, it was built, it served a great purpose. It was maximized in terms of its limitations, but over time venues started replacing a lot of those types of events. So that's kind of the history.


So and welcome to JPL in 30, the highlight show for the Jamaica Premier League. It's the first show of the new year and we have a plethora of football coming your way. We get the ball rolling with some midweek fixtures that feature a couple of reschedule games. First up, Civil Guardants and Montego Bay shrugged off the holiday festivities in another intense encounter while Harbour View entertained Waterhouse in an epic rivalry showdown. Here are the highlights. Didn't test the keeper. This free kick was met by Lima Luca Correa. That wasn't good, but that one was good. Alton Lewis with the delivery. The shot originally from Bryant and Price was saved by Pereira and Nadine Pinico was unhandled for the second attempt. One nail for Tivoli in the 42nd minute. Tivoli would continue to push forward and the shot was saved expertly by William Pereira. Came from Kimali Smith who had quite a few chances in the first half. Second of action. Tivoli trying to press the issue. That one was dug out by Pereira once more. Nicalia Fullough. They are the man for Tivoli doing the damage. But it would change. Brian Brown doing very well there to shield and to play through Shaquille West and he gave that one on a platter to Nugent Hudson in the 57th minute. The substitute did come on and make a difference. And West the player to watch for Montego Bay United showing why he had that designation. One-one at that moment. Montego Bay United. They were turning things around. This shot came from Keena Simpson and again. William Ferraro in goal for Montego Bay United. Proving equal to the task. Here's the delivery now. To Brian Brown and the header beating Diego Houghton in goal for Tivoli guns. And it was the go-ahead goal. Ultimately the winning goal for Tivoli guns for Montego Bay United, I beg your pardon. And Brian Brown with his third of the season had a lot to say. He had nothing to say. Diego Houghton. Anthony Nelson came on. Forced to save out of Pereira once more. But that's all she wrote. Christopher Mason seen enough. The Anthony Spaulding Sports Complex in Cilandro in the capital city of Kingston in Jamaica. That's the venue for this epic encounter in the reign of Jamaica Premier League. Harbour View versus Waterhouse. Waterhouse started well. And they had that attempt from Brian early on. General Samuel was alert to the danger. Fletcher was always coming in and showing his attacking prowess. Talbot there gave that one away to Christian. And Javane Bryan perhaps should have done better. Perhaps should have gone to the left foot. Here they came again. Denado Thomas with a shot. Was going wide at the base of the replay. But Samuel wouldn't have known and was forced to make the save. They would continue to press wood. Waterhouse and Fletcher was alert to that defensive header gone bad from Harding. And he slotted home in the 43rd minute. Andre Fletcher. He was really a live wire the first half. Waterhouse number 15. In the second half now. Good work from Priestly. And Fagan with the slip pass to Tricklemaker. And he finished beyond Kemmerfoster well. Harbour View number 34. A good finish once more. Kemmerfoster planted. But he was able to flourish with Tricklemaker. That was a one all at the moment. At that moment. But Javane Bryan sent that ball to Denado Thomas. And look at the burst of pace. He moved beyond Talbot. Sent it across. And Javane Bryan with his right foot. Nine goals this season. After match with 13. And he's the joint leading scorer now with Justin Dunn. Optively who also has nine. Good finish. Good presence of mind to get it across from Denado Thomas. He really came alive. Did Thomas in the second half. A header that he really should have done much better with. Denado Thomas. That was really an adapter. But he didn't make anything of it. And that was the end of the match. Waterhouse with two goals ahead of Harbour View one. So Montego Bay come up with the goods to pip the high riding Tivoli Gardens. While Waterhouse edge the stars of the east to pick up their fifth win of the campaign. We take our first break here on JPL in 30. Stay with us for more right after the break. Welcome back to JPL in 30. The second midweek encounter saw more goals starting with Arnett Gardens taking on Treasure Beach while Cavalier entertained Mullines United. Let's pick up the action starting with the Arnett Treasure Beach clash. The answer this following sports complex in the night. The lights are out and the crowd is definitely growing for this Jamaica Premier League encounter between Arnett Gardens the home team and Treasure Beach. Kickoff under the lights and Treasure Beach. They had their moments. Smith there with that attempt early. Went wide. Arnett Gardens were not to be left behind. And Jaheem Thomas there getting that chance and did breach the keeper. And Neymar recovered well. Blasted it away. This corner. Gerald Neal got beneath it. Needed to be above it. Headed it over the top. Shea Smith got engaged today and was trying to engage the goal as well. That one flash wide. Second half action now. What a touch from Shea Smith. Look at this back heel. The delivery from James. The man returning with fury. Fabian Reed 75 goals in his career in the JPL. His first of this season. A return from India with the same goal scoring process. That was the opening goal for Arnett Gardens. Yeah it's that kind of afternoon. They will continue to push forward. Arnett Gardens. Warner Brown doing well. Bubble pass. Fabian Reed with the assist as Kelsey. The substitute was able to convert beyond the homes. Good work from Warner Brown. Good flick on. The first touch wasn't the greatest. But he did manage to get the all important second touch into the back of the net. Two goals in the evening. Under the lights. Arnett Gardens. Another look at it. That shot from Herrera. Straight to Asher Hutchinson in goal for Arnett Gardens. And Shea Nation saw enough of that one. Arnett Gardens too. Thrasher Beats near. Welcome back to the Anthony Spalding Sports Complex for Ray Nefajemeke Premier League action on the home of champions. Of course this is a home of Arnett Gardens. But they play in the second of the double head up against Thrasher Beats. But before that Mullines United face Lassie is beaten. Finally Cavalier afternoon kickoff in the sunshine of Kingston. And they were really shining in getting attempts. Cavalier that one from Shilil Thomas off the upright. They would continue to come forward here as Christopher Ainsworth getting an opportunity and he fired. But Peter Harrison using his legs well. Another delivery. Delmaro Calvin unable to get a firm contact to it.  This one came to Ainsworth headed it directly in the hands of the competent Harrison. Here they were really playing around with it. Calvin to Ainsworth to Irving to the advertisers board beyond the goal. The game would change though as Irving delivered a beautiful pass to Calvin and he slotted home his sixth of the season. The Caribbean national man from Antigua and Barbuda. Delmaro Calvin. That was the only goal in the first half. Though there were some other opportunities, Shilil Thomas striking the ball to the chest of Peter Harrison. And here again Ainsworth getting it across. Thomas on two attempts unable to breach. The goalkeeper had a smile about it. Not sure he should have been smiling, should have converted this one as well. Harrison did well. An opportunity and odd one. Richard Gooden getting that ball from Harrison. Of course in a save out of Jaden White in goal. Game would change again in the negative. A second yellow card for Jeremy Nelson. That time for a hand ball. He was sent off. Beautiful delivery from the corner. King with the header and a poor clearance from Peter Harrison back in the area. Dwayne Allen wasn't the best of strikes but it did just enough to beat the goal line. His first of the season. Dwayne Allen second of the game for Cavalier. This one came to Thomas and he delivered finally his third of the season. Shilil Thomas who had such great form in the Caribbean championships for Cavalier. Showing he has it in the Jamaica Premier League as well. Domination by Cavalier. So big wins for Arnett and Cavalier who continue to march off the league table. Much more action still to come from our Sunday fixture as we go to another break. Welcome back to JPL in 30. Our Sunday fixture punctuates this final segment as Cavalier hunt their fourth win in a row against Arnett Gardens. Welcome back to Sabina Park in Kingston, Jamaica JPL action. Here they make off cricket in Jamaica. Cavalier FC versus Arnett Gardens and this is a rescheduled round seven matchup. The quick lineup for Cavalier. Jadon White in gold, Giovanni Len, Kyle Ming, Gidele Irving, Richard King, Adrian Reed, Dwayne Allen, Dwayne Atkinson, Orlando Russell. Here's the Arnett Gardens lineup. Asher Hudson's lane goal, Gerald Neil, Shane Watson, Philando Wing, Rashawn Amos, Marlon Martin, Jamone Shefford, Jayne Thomas, Fabian Reed, Warner Brown and Rashiki Kelton who had a goal in the last encounter. Five o'clock kickoff in sunshine and it started early. Kyle Ming getting on the end offer, Dwayne Atkinson corner kick and the header was on target at the Hudson. Hutchinson couldn't do anything about that one and Kyle Ming didn't have a lot to do on that one. Beautiful ball from Ainsworth taking down nicely from Atkinson, slip pass from Allen and he converted at the near post. His first of the season Dwayne Atkinson returning on loan showing his value. Was in Iceland but he's in Ireland now. Feeling Irish. This was the first half in Orlando Russell. What a strike. What a save though from Hutchinson. He took it down nicely. Here we get another chance. A header from Ainsworth. It was from Langer and then followed up by Ming. A double save from the goalkeeper. Warner Brown would get this chance straight to his former teammate at the San Andro Technical, Jadon White. Lifted in the area. It fell to Kelsen. His shot was stamed. Easily handled. And this one was swung across with pace and all he had to do was head it on target but his positioning was four. Baby in reed. That one struck the upright. Certainly had the better of Jadon White but the upright saved him on that occasion. Roshan Amos, Sean Red. For that coming together with Jalmaro Calvin. Was a bit harsh from a dead Hamilton in my book. Here's long ball played forward. Phil Andawin's header was four but the first touch and the finish from Chenille Thomas was first grade. Here's another look at it. Got in the center and then went in the diagonal. Beating Hutchinson in goal. Waving the flag of Cavalier. It made sense for Hutchinson. It made sense for him. Back to back goals for Chenille Thomas. Back to back wins for Cavalier. Three goals ahead of Arnett Garnes. Welcome back. You spent some time away from the Jamaica Premier League applying your trade in Iceland. Tell me what that was like playing in another culture in another climate for sure. Well it was a difficult time in me in Iceland because it was cold. Couldn't manage. Certain a time I told him it was bursting and it was just hard for him but I still have to just keep chaining out and just do what I've got to do. And of course you would have learned a lot. How much does that mean now to come back to the Jamaica Premier League from a different perspective and do what you did tonight. A goal and an assist in your first start back. Well I'm feeling very good to know that from playing football. Don't play football for three months and coming back now that goal and assist mentally ready for this one. So I've just come again and keep building on the tally tally tally and keep scoring. After being a headache for Arnett Garnes in the first half we saw 10 minutes into the second half you came off. Talk to me about that. Why was that? Was there an injury? No it didn't fit in for us. I can't finish the game but I was going a far way. We get there and that's 100% ready. And what you see from Cavalier so far this season you coming back into the fold. Do you think that is Cavalier team? How's what it takes and you have what it takes to go all the way? Well as I say Arnett Garnes keep trying, trying, fighting, fighting. Not fully on edge for now that we want to reach. We want to reach because more well we need to keep the ball and stop rushing the game but as I say we need to go back to changing Arnett, changing Garnes and regroup and come back again. Yeah we were very flat. I didn't think we provided that we should have provided to enable our midfielders to break down the Cavalier team. I think we were too narrow in terms when we were in possession at the ball and they hit us in transition a couple of times and I think just didn't work out into how we planned, how we discussed what we were going to do. We just didn't execute and we have to give credit to Cavalier for the way they executed their game. When you look back at it and you think about how Cavalier positioned themselves they look like they made some adjustments considering their playing against you. Are you a little bit disappointed that your boys on the field of play didn't make those necessary adjustments because it's very unusual for Arnett Garnes not to at least score? Yeah it's something I would discuss. I figured how they were going to come up but it's nothing you know I mean and it's we just didn't do what we were supposed to do. Simple put you know we just were too narrow in attack. The one time we provided someone to play through the space which was something that we worked on and that we wanted to execute. We got opportunities to score and we were all lucky too. It was unfortunate that we couldn't score today. Things just didn't go our way today. You know we just have to bite it and come back again, regroup, put ourselves the players, get the players in a better mindset recover and get ready for the next one. And all is not lost of course you still sit in the top six fifth at the moment and with players coming back in as well that must be an important thing. Marlon Martin was able to play today so players recovering from injury and you were complaining about a pretty thin squad a week or so ago you will be happy with that. Yeah I'm happy that we're getting back some of the players but still need some key players man. And especially I play like Philando in back to back games. I mean it's tough on him. He's just coming from an injury but he just goes to show that you're not dept in the defensive here. We just have to see how best we can strengthen that way. You know we're missing Joel, we're missing DeAndre. It's tough but we're doing what we can do and they are managing and we just have to be a little bit smarter when we defend you know. For clean sheets in a row and from that perspective and Giovanni Ling coming back your usual defenders there that must be a pleasing sight. Yes but that is the only after we went 10 matches having a clean sheet. We worked on it and it's paying dividend for us. Players coming back in doing busy actions tonight you could say man of the match a goal and an assist. He's fit right back in. You were a bit worried when we spoke to you last time of how the players would come back into your system. I think you would have put your your worries to rest. Well actually you know we did change the system today. We saw some things that we could exploit. We changed the system.


So I did promise Skyla that I would, and Skyla put quite a bit of dollars into this, that I would talk about Michael Jordan, so we're going to talk about Michael Jordan a little bit. On Friday it was Michael Jordan's 60th birthday. I didn't realize he was only about a year and a half younger than me, so it's hard to believe. It really is hard to believe that Michael Jordan is already 60, but even harder to believe is that I am over 60. I don't know how that happened. I don't feel 60. I feel a lot younger than that, so anyway, so let's talk a little bit about Michael Jordan. Now remember, you can use the super chat to ask questions, to make comments, to disagree with me, and so on. I don't know what heroam is saying on the super chat. I mean, for those of you who, I don't know how many of you did not see Michael Jordan in his prime, but many of you were probably born afterwards. I know that a lot of people listening to show in their 20s and 30s probably didn't have the opportunity to see Michael Jordan, but Michael Jordan was, I think, and many experts think, the greatest basketball player who ever lived and one of the greatest athletes who ever lived. I mean, he was a dominant player, and I think that the thing that really made him special, I mean, he was unbelievably athletic. He could do everything. He could dunk, he could shoot, he could pass. I mean, he really had every aspect of the game down. He had what many people call a basketball IQ, that is, he could see the quality understood, you know, who was guarding him, he understood the other team. He would watch hours and hours and hours of tape. He was a smart basketball player who just didn't have the physical, the physical capability. He was incredibly, incredibly smart. But, you know, what made him really spectacular was the fact that in spite of all his natural talent, if you will, that he had an athletic body and he had the skill and he had the height and he had the agility and he had the athleticism, he worked unbelievably hard. I mean, he was a guy who could probably be one of the best players in the league just cruising, not doing anything, could probably make a lot of money for himself, but Michael Jordan worked harder than anybody. And he was ruthlessly committed to victory. He was ruthlessly committed to winning, to being the best in the game. The game of basketball is about winning. It is a competition. And he wanted his team to be the best. He wanted his team to win championship every time they played. And he wanted to be the best. So he individually practiced, practiced, practiced, practiced with non-stop. And he, you know, elevated the team to win, win, win, win. So he was a man committed to being the best that he could be and committed to making the people around him be the best that they could be. So that together they could win. His selfish motivation was to win. And for that, he needed teammates. He needed four other players, indeed, and a bench. And a coach to put it all together so that they could defeat their opponent. And he did. You know, he won six championships, three in a row. He didn't retire, went to play baseball, returned, won three more in a row before retiring again. And then when he returned, he returned to a different team. And this time, yeah, he did not win. But by that point, he was pretty late in his career. He played against some of the toughest players ever.   You just can't be one of the greats if you don't work hard. What made Jordan maybe the best player who ever lived was his ability, his willingness, and his willingness and his competence in taking the game-winning shot. That is, when the game was on the line, when his team was down by a basket, I don't think there's ever been a player who, A, was as eager as he was to take that last shot, and as successful as he was at taking that shot. He was, you know, it's uncanny.  Which was, you know, the shot, which is a Michael Jordan shot. I mean, he came to, he came to symbolize the move, right, the last shot, and all of these at moments, critical, critical moments where his making the basket was what would differentiate between winning and losing the game. So he was an incredibly, incredible talent, unbelievable hard work, but then the, I don't know, the, what would you say, the soul of a champion, the spirit of a champion that is just committed to victory and is able, able to will himself to rise to the challenge. I mean, Michael Jordan played sick, Michael Jordan played in all kinds of circumstances and always rose to greatness, and that's something I think that's truly stunning, that ability of human beings, I mean, to excel when they're under the most pressure. Somebody like Jordan to be a better basketball player in the last 30 seconds of a basketball game, to make that shot almost every time if it's in the last minute of the game, you know, the rest of the time he maybe makes it 50% of the time, 40% of the time. And that's truly amazing. Michael Jordan, you know, was, had learned from failure in his early career, in his early career he did not win titles, they were not incredibly successful. He learned from other players, he had the opportunity to play against Larry Bird, play against Magic Johnson, he had the opportunity to watch and to learn from, and both from his lack of success and from their brilliance and genius on the court, and then elevated to the next level, and then on top of that, what makes him a seminal figure in basketball is not just his actions on the court, but then his actions as an entrepreneur. The deal he struck with Nike, now there's a movie about this coming out, this is such a big deal, you know, Jordan made, there were never Larry Bird shoes. You know, there was some paraphernalia sold, there was some for, what's his name, Dr. Jay, there was some for Magic, but Michael Jordan turned himself into a business, and he turned himself into a very successful business, and a businessman made a huge amount of money. He is today one of the few athletes in the world who is a billionaire, and he's a billionaire not because of what he made in basketball, he's a billionaire because of what he made off the field, selling products he endorsed, and particularly the Air Jordans that still sell for huge valuations, still means something in the shoe, I guess, shoe world. I never understood it, but unbelievably successful and worked hard at it, again just like he did on the court with basketball, worked hard at excelling shoes, at turning it into a brand, giving it meaning, and making it worth as much money as he did. Now I just want to tell you that Skyler has written an essay called The Diamond Jubilee for Jordan, it's on his website and vocal.media slash trader slash the slash diamond jubilee for Jordan. Anyway, the link is in the description below, I am also going to post the link in the chat so you have it, right, it's right there, enjoy, you know, read it and enjoy, and thank you again Skyler for supporting you on Bookshow and encouraging me to do this and doing some super chats, to encourage me to do it, so this is profitable for everybody all around. James says with regard to this, in addition to being the greatest, Jordan is also a huge proponent of failing in order to succeed in having his mind overcome his emotions, yes. I think that's the thing, it's that elevating your game in the last minute means an elevating your game in the finals of the NBA finals or in a crucial game, it's that ability to control your emotions, that ability to control the stress, that ability to focus your mind on what needs to be done and to get your body to follow and to execute in spite of the pressure, the stress, the emotion of the moment, and his ability to command that what made him, the superstar that he was, it's what made it possible for him, ultimately, to be the closer that he was, to be as successful as he was as closing games. But that's here, that's the ability to control your emotions, your ability to control what you do and how you act and how you engage with the world even under a massive stress and Jordan never cracked. And I agree with you about failure, I mean there's this great quote that I really love of Jordan's where he says, and I can't remember the exact numbers, I took, I don't know, I'm just going to make up numbers, I took 10,000 shots or I missed, I missed, 10,000 shots in my career, more than half the shots I ever made, I missed, right, that's how I became a winner or something like that. So he understood that almost every time he, so over 50% of the shots he would take at the basket would miss, that's just the nature of the game. He understood that and embraced it. Every miss was an opportunity to learn on how to take the shot better next time. And he also understood that you can't succeed, you can't win, you can't achieve without taking the shot, without taking the risk. And I think that is such a life lesson for everybody. If you're not in the game, if you're not taking shots, you'll never win. You'll never be successful in life. If you don't go out there and take a risk, knowing that you will often fail. If you don't ask the woman for a date, if you don't ask your boss for a raise, if you don't go out and start a company or join a startup or whatever it is that you want to do or whatever profession you're in, take that big leap, take that big risk, you're never going to be succeed. You're never going to be successful. You're never going to be reach your full potential. That's what it requires. It requires missing shots, lots of shots, thousands and thousands of shots, more than half your shots. And yet it's the only way to win is to miss lots of shots. So, yes, I agree completely. And Adam finishes and says, no surprise. Kobe Bryant modeled himself after Mike. Yes, very much so. I mean, Kobe, if you look at his work ethic, if you look at the seriousness with which he took the game, the other thing that both Kobe and Michael Jordan did, every great player does in any sport is they studied the game. This is, you know, team sports are not only physical. There is a massive dimension, massive dimension here of mental, not just mental, but intellectual, of understanding the game, understanding what your opponents are capable of, understanding the layout, understanding who can shoot from where, understanding what can be achieved, went to pass, went to shoot, went to dribble, all of that. And you learn that, you study that. And the amount of tape, as they say, they watch film, right, though it's film of previous games, though it's film of the opponents, they keep going and going and going to try to become better and better and better. And Michael Jordan was definitely a student of film, as was Kobe, as was all of them. My favorite player is Larry Boat, again, a real student of basketball and a master of it and a real, he didn't have the physical skills that Kobe and Jordan had, but he had the intellectual skills galore. One of the aspects I want to mention is that Jordan, I think, like Kobe, came from a very difficult background, very difficult upbringing. And that only, I think, increased his determination to be the best that he could be. And it's really, he really is a role model, not in a sense of becoming a great basketball player, but a role model in a sense that you are not a product of your environment. You are not just a product of whatever. You can achieve great things. It's up to you. It's what you make of your life. It's what you choose, it's the choices you make. So, you know, don't use your background. Don't use your upbringing as an excuse. Look at people like Michael Jordan and see how, you know, what they made of their lives and how much. Thank you for listening or watching The Iran Brook Show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening, you get value from watching. Show your appreciation. You can do that by going to IranBookShow.com slash support.  Also, if you'd like to see the Iran Book Show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course, subscribe, press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.