When it comes to storage of hydrogen, we can store it either in compressed gas form at very hard pressures or we can store it in liquefied form, which requires hydrogen to be cooled to sub-zero temperatures. But also, hydrogen can be stored in solid state using substances like hardwoods. That's where hardwood has advantage over the other options for hardwood storage. Simply because it does not require very hard pressures or very cumbersome operating conditions to store hydrogen. The Laval technology has advantages over its competitors. Simply because when it was designed, it was designed based on a holistic approach. The entire system has been designed with the recycling and repurposing in mind and that's why I'm supporting it.


It's The Cube, coming to you from San Jose, California. Here's your host, Jeff Rick. Hi, Jeff Rick here. We're on the ground at the Fairmont Hotel in downtown San Jose at the Silicon Valley Business Journal of Corporate Philanthropy Awards. It's a great event. They're going to honor 50 companies tonight for their contributions back to the community via a lot of nonprofits and money and time and contributions to their people. So it's a great opportunity to honor them. It's also an opportunity for some of the local nonprofits to come out, put a face to the name, talk about what they're up to, and really thank the corporations for their contributions. So I'm excited to be joined by Leah de Guzman from the March of Dimes. Welcome. Thank you. So March of Dimes has been around a long time. It's a name we probably all know, but I don't know if everybody knows exactly what does the March of Dimes do. So give us a little update. And actually, that is something that we are working on. We are a nonprofit that's been an organization for 76 years, but right now our main mission is to fund research for finding cures basically for prematurity, birth defects, and infant mortality. Because originally it was a polio? Was that the original charge? It was, yes. Our actual president, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, had polio, and it was his disease that he actually wanted to find a cure. And so he hired basically Dr. Jonas Salk to come up with the vaccine. Okay. And the dimes were sent to the White House to raise funds to actually find the vaccines. So they were actually dimes. There were dimes back in the 30s. Okay, very good. So what are some of the main types of diseases or conditions that you're targeting now, or is it a pretty broad scope? Well right now we're actually focusing on prematurity because we know a lot of the effects of birth defects, but we don't know the causes of them. And so we actually opened up, well we have four right now. We're getting on five research centers. We have one in Stanford. And they're actually looking at the effects. And they're trying to figure out what causes it. And actually what causes a mother to go into labor. We don't even know that. So do you fund specific doctors, specific grants? I mean is it a specific hospital or facility? How does that work? We actually fund grants. We fund research facilities such as Stanford. And we also do NICU centers throughout the US. We actually have one at the Santa Clara Valley Medical Center. We have a NICU center there with a staff member. Excellent. So talk a little bit about corporate philanthropy and what an event like this means and the companies that are here that contribute to March of Dimes. So actually here tonight we are reaching out to people in hopes that we can get more involved. We actually are really great partners with Kaiser, Cisco, actually a lot of the hospitals. El Camino, Lucille Packard. But we are trying to actually reach out to more companies. To more companies. We are. Okay so give the plug what the companies need to do to get involved. What's the best way? I mean a lot of these organizations have a component where you can actually get involved, get your hands dirty. Do you have anything like that or is it just writing checks or what are some of the ways that people can get involved? Because maybe they think the only way is to donate their dimes or take the walk, right? So actually we have three events throughout the year. But our largest one is our March for Babies, which is the last weekend in April. And we do it here at the Plaza de Cesar Chavez in San Jose. And we do need volunteers for the day of setup and breakdown. But also during the walk we need cheerleaders. We need people to help with registration. We also do our signature chef's auction, which we do actually here in the Imperial Ballroom at Fairmont. And then through WL Butler, a construction company, they host a golf tournament for us. And so throughout those we can get sponsorships. We can do family teams and corporate teams for our March. And a lot of people do fundraise for us. But we are always looking for volunteers to help with a number of things. Okay so people can get involved. They can get their feet dirty, get their hands dirty. Alright so where do they go? What's the web address? Give the plug. So go to marchofdimes.org. You can also find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. But we are actually located in San Jose on Winchester. Alrighty. Well thank you for stopping by. Thank you. Good luck grabbing more volunteers, grabbing more dimes. Leah de Guzman from the March of Dimes, here on the ground at the Fairmont in San Jose at the Silicon Valley Business Journal Corporate Philanthropy Awards.


Here we are. So six months ago I gave a presentation on personas. It was very much an introduction to personas, why you might use them, what you might use them for, and how you might come up with one. So one of the things that I committed to tentatively at that time was to come up with some personas for OpenStack or to lead an effort to come up with some personas for OpenStack. Through the user committee and with some help from the documentation team and some input from some colleagues in Red Hat, I've been putting together some personas which I'm going to talk to you a little bit about today and try and get some feedback on them and some commitment to help develop these and get these actually useful and used within the project going forward. So my name is Dave Neary. I work for Red Hat in the open source and standards group. And I'm Neary D on Twitter if you want to praise or criticize my presentation. Live, I do like to see the live tweets after. So a quick recap on what's a persona. I'm not going to go into it for very, very much. Thank you very much. So the first thing is there are two plurals of persona. The correct one is persona, the incorrect one that everybody uses personas. So just to get that out of the way for the rest of the presentation, I'm going to try and be consistent and use personas. Personas and technical background come from, this book is one of the sort of the seminal books that said we should be using personas for designing user interfaces. Alan Cooper's The Inmates Are Running the Asylum, he claimed and he was right that engineers have been writing programs for themselves and not for the people who are eventually going to be using them. So you end up with very complicated user interfaces that expose the internal structure of the object structure or the architecture of the program, rather than the way people have a conceptual model of how the thing should work and how the problem space works. So we argued that coming up with personas and thinking, putting yourself in the place of the users would be a good thing. So what's a persona? Personas have enough detail to make them feel real, but they're not actually real. So you've got a name, a photo, which is typically clip art, or not clip art, stock art, sort of age, job, family situation. What kind of educational background they have, what kind of skills they're bringing to the situation they're in. And then kind of the distinctive characteristics that make them useful to us as an archetype, a person who represents a group of users that's significant enough that we care about them. So personas help focus debate. They help us figure out what we want to achieve, and who. So you get all these kinds of debates around users need this feature, or we have to be at this particular conference. And you don't get into the actual specifics of which users need this feature and why. What's the business case behind it, Randy? Why is talked about this a little bit earlier in the community track this morning? What's the business case? What's the actual symptom that leads people to ask for this feature? And can we solve it maybe in a better way?  So coming up with a persona, typically you start with interviews. You talk to users, talk to potential users, people in the target audience. And then based on that kind of large number of interviews, let me say I've kind of skipped this part. Well, we'll get to that. So the users that I'm basing the personas on here, we've got a number of data sources that I'm going to go into. A significant number of them are the people that we see in the RDO community on the user forum. People we see who are here in the user committee, the user committee survey and so on. We'll get to some of the sources that I've used later. But you start with interviews. You get data. Second, you try and cluster that data to figure out what are the kind of the trends that you're seeing? Groups of users that have similar problems. And then you try and figure out whether you have a representative user that you can come up with that has most of those issues and can kind of speak for a group of users. And then you simplify so that a user profile can be really, really broad. It can be really specific. And you want to get down and distill that to something that's useful. And you want to distill the number of archetypes. So you might come up with, say, 20 clusters. And you might say, well, actually, the IT director, let's say the experienced sysadmin but who has no cloud experience and wants to learn more about cloud because he maybe wants to become a cloud operator. Well, maybe he shares a lot of the same characteristics with the guy who's a student who is kind of looking around at what the hot technologies are and decides that cloud is where the career options are. And so he's learning about cloud. They're coming into the situation with different, maybe different technical levels of expertise. But if we solve the problems that the student trying to learn about cloud has, then we solve the problems for the experienced sysadmin who's trying to learn about cloud too. So you try and figure out are there ways that we can merge different personas. And then you've got them and then how do you use them? So the most obvious one is in marketing and promotion. It's getting the word out. It's figuring out what your target audience is and how to reach them and what problems they have that you can potentially solve so speaking in their language. So it's things like what conferences do our audience go to, what publications do they read, what kind of key messages will resonate. The second area where you see people using personas a lot is in documentation, in terms of working out when somebody comes to the website, what kind of use cases they have. Are they looking to ask questions? Are they looking to find an answer to a problem they have? Are they getting there because they're coming into the front page? Are they coming through search? And some of the answers to those questions will depend on what type of user they are and what kind of, what their pain points are. Are they coming to the website to download the software, things like that? So what can I assume about my audience in terms of documentation level? If I have documentation that has an acronym in it, can I reasonably expect the people who are going to land on that page and have a problem that is solved by that page to understand what the acronym is? So it focuses, again, it focuses discussion on we need to have more detail in the docs because people don't understand the docs are too technical. That's not actually a useful comment to make. Docs are too technical. They're actually assuming a level of knowledge which is not shared by a significant portion of our user base. And here's the portion of our user base we're talking about. Well, that's much more useful because it maybe helps you to address the problem in a different way. Rather than modifying the docs you have, maybe you need to write different docs or maybe you need to structure the documentation differently. So you've got the fast track for the newer users who don't know the acronyms. And then you've got an index with the acronyms that helps them. I'm using acronyms. It's a bad example. But what kind of questions they have and how do they search for and find docs? So what are the usage patterns that somebody has when they're coming to your project to find a solution to their problem? Because all documentation is we're helping our users solve problems there. User experience. So in terms of the next use for personas is in being able to say, if you can clearly identify with and empathize with a group of users and better understand their needs, then Randy's just walked in. So Randy said earlier, he said, we don't want to have people go to the doctor and telling somebody I need the cure for leprosy. You go to the doctor and you say, I've got a sore finger. And then the doctor tells you whether you have leprosy or not. You go with a problem and you get it solved. So user experience is all about understanding your users, empathizing with them and trying to solve the problems that they have by giving them a better overall experience interacting with your project. So what are the main tasks that people have? What are the business problems that we need to solve? Do we have different types of users integrating with the same system? And if we do, do we need to maybe expose different interfaces? So one example is the Overt project. We've got a user console which actually has two views into it. One is for a basic user, which is somebody who has virtual machines that have been created for him. And he can start them, stop them, pause them, snapshot them. And we've got an advanced user who's somebody like, say, QA test engineer who wants to have a set of templates. And he can spin up multiple copies of VMs based on the templates. He has a much more rich experience. And then you've got the cloud admin. You've got the cloud operator or the divert admin who he wants to have access to your storage network and data center structure. So you separate different workflows by identifying the different types of problems that people might have rather than trying to solve everybody's problems with the same interface. And in development, right? So we've had a lot of conversations this week about what are the priorities for the project over the next six months? What is core? What is do we need to have AWS compatibility? What are we going to have in the next version of Nova? Things like this. And prioritizing features, prioritizing the things that we need to have and to kind of get in there and make sure that they're fully supported and work well out of the box. First, you need to know how people are going to use the software. And to know how people are going to use the software, you need to have some idea of who they are. So options versus sensible defaults, are there things that we can remove from the options? Because well, actually, if you look at things, this option plus this option plus this option, they don't make sense. And maybe it makes better sense to have kind of, maybe we can have a config file where somebody really, really needs to change that, can change the option there. But let's not expose it in the interface because that complicates things. Let's not have an install process where somebody has to answer 20 questions, 19 of which they don't actually know what the question means. Concentrating areas on the place where you're going to get the biggest impact. And to get all of that, you need to know your target audience. So the OpenStack User Committee definition says an OpenStack user may have different roles, consumer operator, ecosystem partner, distributor, or appliance vendor. A user can be different types of organizations. They can be in different market segments, different geographical regions. So my comment last time around was you could actually replace this quite easily with everyone. And that would kind of aptly summarize it. So it makes sense to focus in terms of thinking of the target audience. So maybe the people in a specific geographical region also belong to a specific market segment or have a certain risk profile so that we can say organizations of this size in this geographical area are more risk-averse for their earlier adopters than organizations of this size in this geographical area. So trying to break things up and focus that target audience debate. So some of the contributing sources, there were some personas that were done by the ALS Conductor Project quite a while ago around their cloud personas, the NTT.com security cloud personas. That was a group that I didn't like their characterization, but it was the kind of very specifically in terms of the adoption curve. They had the five personas, the controller and the innovator. And I can't remember what they were. But that was helpful. IBM Cloud User Roles. So this is an IBM cloud paper that was published in ACM two years ago. And they described various user roles. Am I an operator? Am I a deployer? Am I a user? And I think, did they say cloud user? I believe they did. And the cloud user was the people who were deploying applications on the cloud. The deployer included things like distributors, but also people who were servicing the clouds. And then the operator is where the people were actually doing day-to-day management. And there's obviously some overlap and some interaction between those. But that was useful, too. EMC has a user experience blog, which is very helpful that a colleague, Julian, actually, who's here, I think, I hope, there you are, pointed me to that had some. So this was specifically the three that I saw were the Storage Admin, the Network Admin, and the Cloud Admin. So EMC, obviously, have a bias there. Their audience is the admins. And then two colleagues, Bruce Reeler and Julian from Red Hat, were both very helpful. Bruce works for the content management team. So he came up with a set of personas that the content management team were using to kind of focus their discussions around OpenStack docs. And Drew is part of our user experience team working on Horizon now. Is that correct? I believe so. Awesome. And other projects. And Tusker as well, perhaps? OK, good. OK, so we get to the meet. And the rest of this is going to be presenting the work we've got so far. It's a work in progress. And I need the feedback. So I'll ask for it at the end, but I'll ask for it now. I actually want to have this be a little bit. We've got 10 of these, so we've got about three minutes each. So we'll get through them. But I want feedback on, is this completely unuseful, or is this something that is actually a useful persona to have that kind of correctly reflects what we're seeing? This is a target audience or potential target audience for OpenStack, or potential non-audience. Because you can also use personas to say, this is a type of person which you might superficially think is going to be part of our target audience. And in fact, we don't want to target this person. This is not who we're looking for. OK, so the main one, Anna, the enterprise admin. So system administrator in a big company. This is the gold standard. This is the people we're targeting primarily. Bigger company, several data centers, hundreds of servers, perhaps thousands. Her legacy infrastructure is mostly VMware. She's got a little bit of Hyper-V and KVM on the host, but mostly Windows and Linux guests, probably mostly Windows, running enterprise workloads. Her reason for considering infrastructure as a service is to give people self-service in terms of the outside of the organization. They have a ticketing system where you get requests in, and they want to just be able to let people spin up VMs for things so that they're a little bit more agile, getting going a little bit quicker. The main things that she's going to need is she needs to make sure that she's picking the right solution. So she's going to want to see people who are happy with whatever she chooses. So she's going to want to see people who are already using this in her use cases. She wants monitoring. So she really needs to know exactly what the loads are, whether there are VMs that are misbehaving, so that she can come in and have a look at what's going on, and some way to monitor and manage all of her legacy virtualization and her existing virtualization together. If she takes on IAS, she wants to manage something there as well. And she's going to want some kind of a marketplace. She doesn't want to particularly buy into one specific vendor. She wants a way to move around. So Anna's, I would call late majority, sort of late majority adopter, she's not going to be one of the people who is running like Bayer, or is anybody running Bayer? Anyway, even Essex Folsom Grizzly, she might know that she's seeing this big conference as well. There's a lot of user stories. Maybe she's going to be considering Havana. But she deploys basically what her management chain decides is going to get deployed. So she has a significant input into whether this is going to meet the needs that she has, but she actually is not the one who gets to decide what vendor gets chosen. I would say freedom to change vendors if she's unhappy with the one she chooses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's going to want to, if she goes with one solution and two years later decides this is not working for me, there are issues with this. I need to change vendors. And there's nobody else there. She's screwed. And we don't want that. She doesn't want that. She's risk averse. Everybody happy with Anna? So this is a slide. There is a document. And yeah, that would be a useful addition. Ju? So Ju's comment was that outside the VMware Hyper-V, KVM comment was that not many people would have both of them coexisting. Very rarely. My understanding is that about 40% to 50% of people in some of the service that I've seen have either currently have a dual hypervisor strategy, or up to 75% plan to have a dual hypervisor strategy. It's kind of a hedge, right? So just for the benefit of the cameras, Randy saying in his experience, Hyper-V has gotten in because there are Windows loads that you get licensing benefits, licensing discounts if you're running them on Hyper-V over ESX. And that's how Hyper-V is getting in there as a mixed data center running Windows workloads. And also KVM is getting in there partly through vendors also using that as leverage to get their stuff in there supported on virtualization. OK, yeah. So I would argue that this is actually the core of our current user base, or a significant part of it anyway. So Simon's a small, medium business admin. He's running an organization that's got a development aspect to it. So I think the industry section I put him in was construction, and they're doing IT systems for managing things like elevators and Aircon. And they want to provide people who are going to run the management of a building with a kind of a custom vertical solution.  And they need to be able to develop stuff quickly. IT is not a value add for them. It's a cost center. And they just need to get going quicker. Probably already using AWS and wants private infrastructure service for development. QA self-service wants to keep some stuff in-house. And he needs an easy way to apply security updates. So Simon's big issue is if I'm managing VMs in a cloud, how am I going to make sure that the stuff I'm delivering to my clients has all the updates involved? How do I manage the life cycle of those things? But Simon's a good DevOps guy, so he will typically fix that with Publisher or whatever. And he also needs good monitoring for nodes, quotas, guests.  So the comment is one of the key questions for Anabee, the ability to upgrade between releases. I can't remember on the document. I'll get the document up later. And you'll see what, each profile has a page. And it's got skills, needs, goals, pain points, things like that. Yes? OK. So Dan, the deployer. So Dan is not going to be involved in the day-to-day management. He works for a services company. He wants to get OpenStack into clients. He's going out and he's selling OpenStack. Well, he's selling cloud. He's not selling OpenStack. OpenStack is just the way he's delivering cloud. He is going to look at a lot of technology and he's going to follow where the money is. So Dan is the kind of guy who's going to want to see that there's a market for his services. And he's going to scale up a business offering. He or his boss is going to scale up a business offering based on where the market is. He's the guy who's going to architecture cloud. He wants an easy way to spec out a design. Get in, get out, deploy it as quickly as possible. He's involved during installation but not a min. And I would say he's an early majority in that he's not going to get involved at a very early stage in any project until he's sure that there's going to be some market demand behind it. Randy, are you Dan? You're not Dan. Erin, so it works in a bigger organization. She works with the development team. She's the person who does the deployment of the operations. You can think of her as the deployment team. So Erin's been using AWS for a long while. She is very familiar with all the continuous integration continuous deployment tools and workflows that are out there in the industry. And her primary use case is she's taking applications that are developed internally and she's getting them onto the cloud. So she's the kind of person who's bringing the elastic infrastructure and that elastic knowledge into an organization. And she's focused on her app. She doesn't really much care what the underlying infrastructure is as long as it supports the pieces that she needs in terms of if she's using a database as a server, if she's got load balancing on there. Once the subset of features that are available for clouds in general are available, I mean she's just using the deployment tools that she has always used. She doesn't really care what the infrastructure is. Diane is developing applications that are going to specifically going to integrate with OpenStack. She's a kind of a value add vendor developer. She's selling some kind of hardware or software services, maybe a vertical stack, something that's going to run a specific cloud deployed service and they want to sell that into their clients. She cares about the upstream experience. She's very much an API consumer, API and command line. She does care about working well with the OpenStack developers, the core developers, and probably here this week. So the comment is that Diane probably cares about SDK, something that's wrapping the APIs in a specific language that she cares about. Yeah, for sure. And her company cares about generating revenues from sales of whatever it is her company sells and OpenStack is just a way to get that. So whether it's a software add on on top of an application that's going to run like a management application is going to run on top of OpenStack or if it's hardware that like OpenStack is integrating well with OpenStack is just a means to sell more hardware. But the money here is in whatever the company is doing is the add on. So the feedback is she's looking to add business value. Well, in the context of this specifically, and I don't want to get down that rattle, but let's throw that out there, in the context of specifically the don't compete with your ecosystem debate that's been going on over the last couple of weeks or we're going to provide open source solutions in the context of the OpenStack community for problems that our users are having. Well, then Diane very much does care about where the business value is coming from. It's coming from hardware then we're never going to compete with hardware. If it's coming from, for example, a management interface, then Diane is going to be worried about whether we're going to have a management interface here down the line. So the comment is Diane's going to worry about the downstream. So I presume what you mean there is that Diane's company is going to worry about the vendor relationship with the company that actually is deploying the OpenStack that she's getting her stuff into. All right, so I'm just clarifying what you mean by downstream because there are two possible. So the customer need and the customer market demand. OpenStack is a lever to get more sales of whatever it is she's selling. So Ursula is the university IT director. It's an Irish name. It didn't seem weird to me. Anyway, the alliteration thing came from the initial ones that Bruce Reeler did and I just followed the, I'm not very good at alliteration. Anyway, so we see a lot of people in the academic area or sort of smaller, not smaller, relatively large sized organizations, but typically budget constrained on the software and management side. So Ursula is managing a lot of servers, a lot of EMS, and she's managing the university IT needs, but also providing IT services to staff and students. So she needs that flexibility. She needs the elasticity. And she loves open source because she gets the kind of control, she gets the community ecosystem because she's not paying for support, so she wants to kind of get that close relationship with the developers and software. And she's got the pressure from staff and students to provide the more flexible self-service type of thing, creating projects because staff member wants to run a course on cloud development. He wants every student to have a tenant, right? Something like that, and he wants to be able to set that up on his own. Again, she cares about monitoring, she cares about security updates, she cares about managing with her existing infrastructure and her existing applications, but she is much less risk-averse than Anna or Ann that we saw earlier. So the question is, is the university first because of a reason or because it's targeting that specific sector? So I would say the three different profiles that I saw are open source organizations, so something like MediaWiki, Wikimedia, CERN, and that kind of whole family of organizations, a lot of universities using OpenStack. Anybody who's got their primary constraint is going to be budget and manpower and not necessarily hardware, they have the hardware needs and they just need the elasticity and they've got that open source bias. That's the essence of what I was trying to get out here, or so it's just representative of that. Would HEP and HPC fit into that? Perhaps. HPC, my understanding is that it's got, because of the, oh yeah, so something like Excel Cloud would probably, yeah, the Inria projects would probably fit into that kind of sector, why not? Brad, the beginner. So Brad is a kind of a synthesis of anybody who's coming to OpenStack because they see a kind of an employment opportunity later on. They want to get their skills in the cloud. Brad has, he's a Linux user, he's a Linux admitted home, and he needs to get an easy install and set up on his home network running two or three servers, and he can brush over the details, he just wants to figure out what's going on with this cloud thing. And if the install processes, he gets to the horizon and he says, OK, what now? So he wants to figure out what's going on and understand DevOps workflows and all of that kind of thing. So he lacks the knowledge to dig in and debug issues with installation and configuration. He needs an easy start quick. He wants to have a sample app that he can run, like a sample heat template that he can run and see a cloud application running and say, oh right, I get it now. Victor, the virtual infrastructure admin. So Victor's longtime vSphere user. You will notice I am not speaking on behalf of, some of the things that people will tell you is that you shouldn't talk about competitors, but OpenStack is coming into a market where you've got two very dominant players, vSphere in the data center and AWS in the public cloud. I think it would be silly of us not to talk about the needs of people who are using those things. So I've kind of ignored that advice for the purposes of this presentation. Victor? Yeah. So Victor knows all there is to know about vSphere. His company is committed to vSphere, their longtime vSphere partner, and they do have changing needs. He's considering infrastructure as a service, but he wants to figure out how it fits into his existing infrastructure story. So am I going to keep using ESX as a hypervisor? Am I going to use the vSphere driver for Nova? Is that my way to migrate? Or am I going to move to a separate, like add some new hypervisor, new capability that I'm going to just set aside for OpenStack? See how that goes now to management layer over the top. What are the things that are going to solve my pain points? His pain points are things like capacity planning and integrating infrastructure, migrating workloads. So this is things that are running in VMs, traditional VMs on vSphere are not going to work without some kind of rethinking on infrastructure as a service. It's not. It's actually included in a bunch of them, but it was the one that kind of bobbled to the top for this guy. But Victor is kind of, I would say, early majority. He's committed to vSphere, but he's already got the virtualization. He's drunk the virtualization Kool-Aid, and he's ready to take that step. He is going to get an infrastructure as a service component. The question is just how is he going to do it? So I would say he's probably going to be a promising market for potentially next career move. Maybe looking around and saying, OK, vSphere is kind of VMware share price is flagging, and I need to diversify it. I don't know. I told you I wasn't the communications department. Anyway, Dennis, so director of IT, he is the guy who gets engaged by all the vendors. He talks to his IT staff to figure out what we're going to do. He's the guy who decides whether we're buying and who we're going to buy from. But Dennis is really nervous about new technology. He's a late adopter. He's going to need to be brought to that purchase decision by people who are really enthusiastic and expressing that need really clearly internally. So maybe the way to get to Dennis is to give his IT staff the tools that they need to explain in terms that Dennis understands the value of elastic computing internally in his data center. One of the things that Dennis maybe doesn't know about is that there are a bunch of people internally using AWS already and sort of consolidate a billing that he just sees the invoices coming in.  He's excited about technology. I'm just repeating for the he's looking to open stack. Well, he's looking to respond to IT needs. That's the thing is he's not looking at open stack. That's one of the things that I didn't mention earlier is it's very important when you're coming up with personas to avoid that kind of to not fall into the trap of assuming that the people you're talking about know about your stuff and are excited about it. They are going to have a need. And open stack may respond to that need. And it may be cloud stack. And it may be eucalyptus. And it may be open nebula. And it may be Amazon web service. Or it may be a kind of a specific product offering. And they don't even see it as open stack. They see it as a rack space hosted cloud. Or red hat open stack platform. So Dennis may be a non-goal for some people and a goal for other people. So for example, Lauren may care a lot about Dennis. Lauren doing the marketing for the open stack foundation, maybe evangelizing and getting open stack, get mind share, and getting into analyst press, and getting into kind of, I don't know, Wall Street Journal and that level of very high level, the kind of publications that kind of do a very high level treatment of technology trends. That may be the kinds of things that Dennis is going to be targeting. And like Brad doesn't care about that stuff. Brad's kind of gets excited about the stuff he sees in tech conferences, right? So, yes, yeah, there was another hand. Was it, oh, awesome. Am I, whoa, I'm two minutes out. Alan, AWS enthusiast, so it's unfortunately, we're running out of time. Alan's been working on AWS for years. He's committed to AWS. He's got a bunch of stuff running on there. And then the question for us is, is Alan a goal? He's already got the elastic. He's sold on that. He doesn't need to be sold on infrastructure as a service. But he's committed to Amazon. So unless we're providing it sort of a private option that adds to the value that he's getting from Amazon or a public option that allows him to move easily from one to the other, we're missing out on Alan. Is Alan a target audience who we care about? That's, I guess that's one of the topics of discussion that we've had a lot in the community recently. Walter, the web developer, I added this guy because this is specifically probably a target user for pass. He's working in an organization where he just, he just cares about the code, right? He just cares about his PHP or his Python or his Ruby or whatever it is. The CSS, the HTML, JavaScript is like developing web applications, providing an application running on a middleware, perhaps. And he just hands that off to the operations team, right? Walter just needs some information on how to develop his applications in a way that doesn't make it harder for the operations team to scale out, right? Maybe that's gonna come through the operations team. Maybe that's gonna come through the DevOps profile that we saw earlier. Or maybe that's something that we can reach. Or maybe we need to figure out how do we convince Walter of the value of using a pass, right? So, again. So, help.   I lied. That we don't have, right?  Press, analysts, pundits, right? So that how do we improve the, what are the things that those people are looking for and how do we address that audience? Distributors, product managers, what are the kinds of things that, like, these are people who are in some sense our gateway to customers, right? Gateway to users. They're the people through whom we will be getting feedback, what are their pain points and how do we leverage that audience? They need polish. They need to be compared to reality. So the user committee survey has been very useful. Those of you who are in customer-facing roles or in market-facing roles, I would love to get your help polishing these and improving them over time. So the integrating of the user committee survey results I already talked about. I wanna get some feedback and interviews. So I wanna compare with, I've got the RDO experience. Ask OpenStack. I'd like to get sort of some help from the OpenStack Foundation. You guys have awesome contacts with key users and we can improve these if we can get them. And perhaps some condensation, right? Maybe 11 is too many. Personas are useful when they're used. So anybody here who has a use for personas, I would love to hear how useful they are, whether you're using them. And I would love to get your help in promoting inside the open source community that the people who could get value from these are aware of them, right? So please help. The documentation, I'm gonna put a link, I'm gonna put the slides up and the link to the Google Docs which has the personas as they are today up on the presentation, the website. And yeah, go along, read and help out. Thank you, and I have minus four. Minus. Thank you.


Greetings friends! This is Survival Doc. Today I'm going to do a review of the dry top desiccants. You can order these on their webpage drytopproducts.com. When I received my products, they were this green color indicating that they needed to be recharged when they're ready to go. They're this orange color. So I simply recharged them in my oven according to the instructions. These are food grade. You can't eat them of course, but they are safe to put in with your food. So if you want to put these in with your freeze-dried foods for long-term food storage, you can do that safely. Also the plastic is BPA free. I'm putting these two larger dry top canisters in my gun cabinet to absorb moisture before it can do damage to my firearms. And I'm going to put the smaller ones in my M-O can.  So if you want you can stick this somewhere and put your dry top in there like this. And then all you have to do is just keep an eye on it and when this orange color turns dark or green color, then you just put it in the oven like the instructions say and recharge it. It turns orange again and it's ready to go again. According to the directions that came with them, to reactivate when silica crystals turn from orange to green, place capsule on a paper towel in the microwave for 30 seconds. Repeat for an additional 30 seconds if necessary to return the crystals to the original color. For conventional ovens, heat for 45 minutes at 250 degrees Fahrenheit then allow to cool. And this is how a recharged mine in a conventional oven with the heat on for 250 degrees Fahrenheit for 45 minutes and the crystals recharge turning from green to orange just like they're supposed to do. I put one of these smaller dry top canisters in each of my M-O cans. I give these dry top desiccant canisters a thumbs up. This is survival doc reminding you be prepared or be prepared to be fleeced and don't forget to keep your powder dry.


Welcome! We are going to discover and give you top 27 reasons through this journey why Madeira is a must-see island in 2024. As the drone soars above Madeira's breathtaking coastline, a question echoes, ready for your next adventure in 2024. The camera dives, revealing the rugged cliffs and serene beaches below, setting the stage for an exploration that promises more than just a journey, inviting you to a new chapter in your story. First reason to visit, Madeira bursts onto the screen with a kaleidoscope of landscapes. From the whispering waves against the shore to the majestic peaks shrouded in mist, every frame is a postcard from paradise, beckoning travelers to discover why Madeira is heralded as a must-visit destination in 2024 or any other year. Ever dreamed of paradise on earth? The narrator's question hangs in the air as the island's traumatic cliffs and inviting beaches unfold in vivid detail. Each scene is a brushstroke in Madeira's masterpiece, painting a picture of a haven that exists beyond the realm of dreams. Second reason to visit, the vibrant street scenes and cultural festivals of Madeira take center stage, offering a deep dive into the island's rich heritage. In June takes place the Atlantic Festival, which is much more than the fireworks that fill the sky with color every Saturday in June. For a month, this festival hosts a set of cultural activities that are held in the streets of the archipelago, such as the opening and closing pyro-musical shows, the Madeira International Fireworks Competition, the multimedia shows, the circus shows, the sunsets of summer, the regional arts week, and the bread fair of the Lions Club of Funchal. Third reason to visit, zooming into the heart of Madeira, the unique Lorisil the Forest comes into view. Its UNESCO World Heritage status underscores the importance of this ancient woodland, home to exclusive wildlife and verdant landscapes, promising explorers a glimpse into a world where nature reigns supreme and timeless. Immerse yourself in the heart-stopping beauty of Madeira's Lovadas, where adventure meets nature in a symphony of cascading waterfalls and winding trails.  Fourth reason to visit, venture into the sun-kissed vineyards of Madeira, where the art of winemaking transcends generations. The famous Madeira wine is a fortified wine, to which brandy is added to stop its fermentation. The historic wineries not only offer a glimpse into the island's rich viticultural heritage, but also invite you to indulge in the unique flavors of this fortified wine. Fifth reason to visit Madeira, experience the culinary delight of Espitada, Madeira's traditional dish that tantalizes the taste buds with its simplicity and richness. Skewered beef grilled over an open flame captures the essence of local cuisine, offering a mouth-watering experience that embodies the warmth and hospitality of Madeiran culture. Dive deeper into the gastronomic journey that Madeira offers, where each dish tells a story of the island's bountiful nature and culinary ingenuity. From exotic fruits to sumptuous seafood, the local cuisine invites you on a sensory journey to explore flavors that are as vibrant and diverse as the landscape itself. Dive into the rich bounty of the Atlantic with Madeira's seafood delicacies. From the freshest tuna to the most succulent shellfish, the island's culinary scene is a paradise for seafood lovers. Each dish is a testament to the local fisherman's daily catch, offering flavors that are as vibrant as the island itself. Sixth reason to visit Madeira, the island's charming towns and villages offer a mosaic of colorful markets and historic architecture. Funchal, the capital, stands out with its lively Mercado dos Lavradores and quaint cobbled streets, inviting visitors to wander and discover the heart of Madeira's culture, with promenades being renovated in 2024. Seventh reason to visit. In Madeira, wellness is a journey set against the backdrop of stunning natural scenery. The island's spas and wellness centers offer serene escapes, where one can rejuvenate amidst lush landscapes and breathtaking views. It's a retreat for the soul, promising relaxation and renewal in the lap of nature. Eighth reason to visit Madeira, the archipelago of Madeira hosts several iconic sports events every year like the Funchal Marathon or the Porto Santo Nature Trail, some of which are part of the main international circuits of the most diverse disciplines, thus placing Funchal Porto Santo and the island on the map of the main active tourism destinations. Ninth reason to visit. For those seeking thrills, Madeira doesn't disappoint. From the exhilarating swoop of paragliding off its cliffs to the depths of its crystal clear waters for scuba diving and the rugged trails for mountain biking, adventure is always around the corner. The island caters to the spirit of adventure in everyone, promising adrenaline and serenity in equal measure. Tenth reason, diving into Madeira's cafe culture reveals the island's passion for coffee and pastries. According to TripAdvisor, we would recommend Jasmine Tea House and Petit Force Patisserie. Every coffee bar has its own story, offering a cozy nook to enjoy the rich aromatic blends of local coffee paired with delectable pastries. It's a taste of local life, inviting you to linger over every sip and bite in the company of friendly faces. Eleventh reason to visit Madeira, as the sun sets, Madeira transforms. The vibrant nightlife takes over, with beachfront bars and traditional folk music filling the air. It's a place where the rhythm of the island life can be felt through its music and gatherings, inviting travelers to experience the warmth and joy of Madeira's evenings. Twelfth reason to visit. Immersing yourself in Madeira's culture means living like a local. Participate in traditional crafts and cooking classes where the secrets of Madeira cuisine are shared. From weaving the iconic Madeira hats to preparing the perfect espitada, these experiences connect you deeply with the island's rich heritage and warm-hearted residents. Thirteenth reason, the panoramic views from Madeira's cable cars offer more than just a ride. They present a journey through the clouds, ascend over lush valleys and terraced mountainsides, capturing the essence of the island's stunning geography. It's an unforgettable aerial journey that showcases Madeira's diverse landscapes from an extraordinary perspective. Fourteenth reason, Madeira explodes in a kaleidoscope of colors during its exotic garden tours and flower festivals. The island is home to a vast array of unique flora, making it a paradise for botany enthusiasts and nature lovers alike. Fifteenth reason, Madeira's art scene is a vibrant tapestry woven from the island's rich cultural heritage and breathtaking landscapes. Street murals burst with color, telling stories of tradition and modernity, while local galleries offer intimate glimpses into the creative hearts of Madeira's artists. Sixteenth, the thrill of deep-sea fishing off Madeira's coast is an adventure not to be missed. Here, the Atlantic teams with life, offering anglers the chance to battle Marlon and Tuna in the deep blue. Each excursion is an opportunity to connect with the sea and come face to face with some of its most majestic inhabitants. Seventh, Madeira's accommodation options are as unique as the island itself. Boutique hotels and quaint guesthouses are nestled in stunning landscapes, offering personalized experiences that blend luxury with local charm. Weekend accommodation prices start from 130 euros approximately. Eighteenth, navigating Madeira is an adventure in itself with scenic driving routes that unravel the island's beauty. Four companies ensure the public transport system in Madeira and Bolt is the only authorized company on the island, with a fast service and lower prices than traditional taxes. Nineteenth, one's considered one of the most challenging airports in the world, where only the most experienced pilots could land due to the size of the mini-runway. On September 15, 2000, the island of Madeira inaugurated one of the largest constructions ever carried out in the region, representing a total investment of approximately 520 million euros. Madeira's international airport called Cristiano Ronaldo Airport in honor to the famous soccer player who was born in Funchal, Madeira, with a 2,781-meter-long runway has given the island a new image in the new millennium. This airport has a capacity for 3.5 million passengers per year and all types of passenger planes can land and take off from it. Madeira simplifies travel plans with direct flights and enticing travel packages for 2024, making the journey to this island paradise as seamless as it is thrilling. The ease of travel opens the door to exploring Madeira's wonders, inviting adventurers and leisure seekers alike to step into a world of discovery. Twentieth, romance is in the air in Madeira, where sunset dinners and intimate beach walks create perfect moments for couples. The island's natural beauty sets a stunning backdrop for love to blossom, making it an ideal retreat for those seeking a romantic getaway. Here, every view and every moment feels like it's straight out of a love story. Twenty first, family-friendly adventures await in Madeira, where water parks, interactive museums, and nature trails offer endless entertainment for young explorers. Each activity is designed to delight and engage, creating unforgettable family memories amidst the island's natural wonders. Madeira promises a vacation where both kids and adults can find joy and discovery. Twenty second, dive into the azure depths of Madeira's coast, where snorkeling and diving reveal a world brimming with marine life. The island's clear waters offer unparalleled visibility, allowing adventurers to swim alongside vibrant schools of fish, explore captivating coral reefs, and even discover sunken treasures hidden beneath the waves. Twenty third, Madeira's mountain retreats provide a serene escape, nestled within the heart of its lush landscapes. Tranquil cabins and cozy lodges offer panoramic views that stretch endlessly, inviting guests to disconnect and rejuvenate. It's a haven for those seeking peace with nature's soundtrack to soothe the soul and refresh the spirit. Twenty fourth, the adventure doesn't stop at Madeira. Nearby Porto Santo invites explorers to its golden beaches and crystal clear waters. A short ferry ride opens up a world of serene beauty, offering a tranquil escape from the hustle and bustle. Porto Santo is a hidden gem waiting to be discovered, perfect for day trips or peaceful retreats. Twenty fifth, uncover the rich tapestry of Madeira's history and legends, where tales of pirates and explorers abound. The island's storied past is etched into its rugged landscapes and ancient traditions, promising a journey through time. Visitors can explore historical sites and listen to local lore, connecting with the island's heritage at every turn. Twenty sixth, capture the essence of Madeira through your lens with countless scenic spots and expert timing tips to guide you. From the golden hour lighting up its dramatic cliffs to the vibrant hues of its festivals, the island offers a myriad of picture-perfect moments. It's a photographer's paradise, where each shot tells a story of beauty and wonder. Twenty seventh, embark on a journey of discovery through Madeira's craft in souvenir shopping. Local markets and artisan workshops showcase the island's rich culture, offering handcrafted goods that tell a story of tradition and craftsmanship. From exquisite embroidery to unique ceramic pieces, each purchase supports local artisans and brings a piece of Madeira back home. From rugged mountains to serene beaches, vibrant festivals to quiet evenings under the stars, Madeira is a call to adventure waiting to be answered in 2024. Are you ready to explore Madeira? Finally, if you liked this journey about why Madeira is a must-see visit in 2024, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to the European Hub channel. See you soon!


Last year, ST announced the STM32-MP2, the first STM32 to combine 64-bit Cortex-A35 cores and Cortex-M33. Today, we are thrilled to present the STM32-MP2-5, the first official member of the STM32-MP2 series, and the most advanced MPU in our current roadmap. Thanks to its new graphics and video capabilities, the STM32-MP2-5 supports impactful U.S. and 4GD videos at 60 frames per second. And thanks to its diverse display interfaces, developers can create larger and richer human machine interfaces. Additionally, it includes a neural processing unit, or MPU, capable of 1.35 tops for HAI applications. And we are announcing today that you can already experience this power even before getting a hand on a physical device. Thanks to the STAR broadband, you can run a neural network on the STM32-MP2-5 in the cloud and experience what this new MPU can do. Then, once you get your hands on the STM32-MP2-5, you will see that. It is our first STM32 supporting three ethernet ports. One is directly connected to the Gigabit Media Access Control, or GMAG. The other two are connected to a switch cascaded behind a second GMAG. It means developers can drive new connected industrial applications by managing network packages without weakening the processors. And we can't wait for you to discover the other faster peripherals found in the STM32-MP2-5. Like the PCI Express G2 controller, the USB 3-Module, all the three conflict interfaces. With the STM32-MP2-5, you can see how ST's second generation STM32 microprocessor enables secure and advanced HAI computing, and brilliance the robustness needed for industrial 4.0 applications. ST is committed to releasing a lot more STM32-MP2 devices, and doing it fast in the form of the STM32-MP2-3 and STM32-MP2-1, with pin-to-pin compatibility for several packages across the STM32-MP2 series. It will bring a lot of flexibility as engineers reuse PCB layouts and code. The STM32-MP2-5 will be mass production by the first half of this year. Well, the STM32-MP2-3 will arrive by the end of 2024. As for the STM32-MP2-1, we will also be sampling it by the end of 2024 with the production expected in the first half of 2025. So stay tuned for more details throughout the year. And that's not all for the STMACO processors. Let's go to Amit, who will tell us how it is now possible to run a real-time operating system on the STM32-MP1-3.


We're kicking off this edition of the Sportsmax Zone with Football Match Day 3 of the UEFA Europa League concluded earlier Thursday with 15 matches across Europe in one of the day's early kick-offs. Last season's Conference League champions, West Ham United, tasked with Olympiacos. The Hammers enter the fixture looking to further cement their hold at top Group A but things did not go quite according to plan. Let's watch the highlights. Yes, so the win there for Olympiacos former TNT International. Brent Sancho joins us via Zoom to talk about this fixture and others. Brent, West Ham are group leaders, still are following the result. Olympiacos undefeated in the Greek Super League at the moment and they've won 85% of their matches but I don't think they were expected to beat West Ham today were they? No, not one of the 11-game winless streaky Olympiacos in European competition and not one West Ham has had the streak that they've had breaking records as well. It was a result against the form guide as expected but I think a lot of it came down to the players on the pitch particularly from a West Ham perspective. They were nonchalant, non-existent, uninspiring. We talk a lot about games being played on a Thursday for Premiership Clubs and how difficult it is for players to get up for these games. Normally games of course played with heavily rotated squad players that are normally on the peripherals and probably don't have enough playing time under their belt but this was really poor for my Sam today and uncharacteristically poor because if you look at what they've done, their body of work in Europe has been excellent so far. This has certainly been a block on their people. Yeah, any credit though to Olympiacos who fought hard and cracked in a couple of good goals? Yeah, you're right and credit should be given and in a balanced perspective as much as I can say about West Ham, you have to give credit to Olympiacos. They played front foot football from the wood goal. They were certainly a danger all the way through all, as I said, they wanted this win. They could have easily crumbled plans because of the record that they have coming up against West Ham who's had quite a good string of result but they were everything opposite of that today and a lot of credit has to be given to them. They earned their fee today but again, you couple that with the poor West Ham result and that's of course the reason why Olympiacos went over with all three points. Yeah, and the loss they had earlier in the group to Freiburg was a high scoring game. They lost 3-2 which means offensively they got some goals. It's just that they didn't win. Yeah, they've always showed the capability of scoring goals at Olympiacos but it's keeping goals out on the other end but they were solid today. They were very solid today. West Ham didn't really have anything of note. Of course, the Paqueta goal at the end was one of class but outside of that, they defended quite stoutly and quite well. I think going back to West Ham lands, obviously that heavy defeat against Aston Villa in the weekend four goals to one. This defeat, they have Everton coming up on the weekend. I don't want to suggest necessarily it's a critical jump for Moise. Not necessarily is. But at the same point in time, there are some bad habits that are stepping into the squad. The way that they play, the way that they're going about their business that he may need to keep a little eye on and may need to obviously try to weed that out. Yeah, still for West Ham they'll be satisfied that they're still top of the group but the group beginning to get tense now because Freiburg are joined top with them on points with six and Olympiacos are now within two points of the leader. So today's result tightens up the group. Yeah, in tights of the group, I would want to give West Ham the benefit of the doubt here last because look, we have to agree they've been exceptional in Europa from last season and into this season as well. And of course, you do have these sorts of performances stepping into a team timing. Sometimes it does happen. So I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and I want to suggest that it's probably a block on their paper. I think they will get the better results and I do think they will come out of the group generally. But I think one thing they have learned today is in this format and on the Thursday night games in the Europa League, you cannot underestimate your opponent at any point in time. I do want to place a little bit of blame on David Moyes. I thought the team was a bit unbalanced. He put a lot of players in there that didn't have a lot of minutes throughout the season. So you could have seen the lack of fluidity in it and I thought he may have mixed it a bit. In his post-game interview, he talked about the games that they have coming up as I mentioned Everton and the League Cup game next week. But I still felt that he could have put a little bit more balance in the team with players that have been playing more regularly mixed with some of the players that haven't been playing as often as they may have liked. Yeah, well Brent, another English Premier League club was in action earlier on today. Liverpool hosting the French side to lose at Anfield. Let's see how that late fixtures shaped up. Jota, seven appearances. And it came from a Joe Gomez tackle inside his own half. Jota then with a quick take and turn. Now there's something on. Look at this wide open. It's Dalinga in on goal for Toulouse. Still ever scored. Where was Chambers going? It's Alexander-Arnold on the top of the picture there that played Dalinga on the side. They couldn't catch him. All he had to do then, I say all he had to do. Jones. Elliot leaves it for Alexander-Arnold. And it's in. Watano Endo has headed in his first ever goal for Liverpool. Short corner. They weren't ready for that. Jones able to wander across unchallenged. And then the best possible idea. Give it to the man who delivers a ball into the box better than most. Alexander-Arnold. Gravenbeck going through. Here's Jones. Jones shot blocked. How about it? And Nunez. Gravenbeck. Decided to go on a driving run. One or two in Liverpool Red, but he in particular have been doing that this evening. Jones effort blocked. A little bit of good luck too soon. And there will have to be an element of taking a bit more of a gamble. Keller has gambled there and lost. What a chance for Toulouse. Should have taken it blocked by Alexander-Arnold. A save on the goal line. Oh, the flick from Dunham hasn't worked. And Darwin Nunez might be away. Nicolaisen's been beaten. Oh, this is beautiful. Oh, he's missed. Can you believe it? Gravenbeck. He doesn't miss.  It was a Toulouse trick that started it all. Dunham didn't look. The flick didn't go to the right place. Look at the footwork. To set Nicolaisen down in the first place. The round rest is in the second. Diogo Jota. Gatto. Salah. He didn't need long. That's 16 goals in his last 16 home appearances. Brilliantly done. Effortlessly done. Liverpool five to lose one. Yeah, so Liverpool getting lots of goals there. Eleven goals in their last four matches in all competitions. Liverpool and a satisfying result. They're Brent for Jürgen Klopp's men. Yes, it was a very good result for Jürgen Klopp's men. You know, Lance, I think back to last season where a lot of stick was thrown towards Liverpool, particularly in the middle of the park where they really struggled. They talked about Thiago Alcantara. Of course, Jordan Henderson moved on. Milner who deputized at times in the middle of the park. And now look at the type of midfield that they have. Young and energetic. Of course, expansive in the way that they want to play. Imagerative, great at breaking lines. They've really been able to turn a squad around in one season with some of the signings that they've brought in. And you're seeing that now with the level of play from Liverpool, the level of the energy levels, of course, the enthusiasm to get forward and get back as well. And they prove it to be a very, very good team to watch. And obviously, one of the teams, Lance, that you will feel that could go on to do good things later on in the future. And I mean by that, challenging for the EPL. And of course, I think they are, they should be odds on favourite to take in the Europa League. Yeah, there are only three points off the top of the English Premier League, Brent. And speaking about a squad, eight changes made by Jürgen Klopp from the side that beat Everton in the English Premier League at the weekend. And still they put in this impressive performance. Quite an entertaining performance from my standpoint. Talk to me though about Endo and Gravenberg because I thought those two especially were quite impressive for Liverpool today. I'll start with Gravenberg because I tell you what, Ricardo, when he came in, I looked at a lot of Liverpool TV and the Flandre fans and the blogs and all that stuff. I know I shouldn't be watching that, but I did. And there was a lot of criticism of whether or not he could make the standard of Liverpool. Of course, left from Bayern Munich, him across to Liverpool was on the outside of the Bayern Munich starting team. And he's coming now, although he's not necessarily commanding a starting place in the EPL team. What I've seen from in the Europa League, there is so much to look at. There's so much to be very much impressed with. His driving at the defences, his ability to slip a pass, his eye for a goal, his ability to break lines. Those are the sorts of things that I normally, of course, mention when I talk about my favourite player now, Richard Bellingham. But that's what you get. That's the kind of feel you feel when you watch Gravenberg play. And he's shown that today. And again, I go back to the fact that I mentioned about Western. Normally teams that play on a Thursday don't have that enthusiasm and drive. But look at his Liverpool performance today. Players that are normally struggling for minutes on the first team, playing with a lot of pride and gusto. And you're right, Endo is another player that a lot of eyeballs will raise when Jürgen Klopp beat that signing. But again, he showed up today with his energetic performance and complimented the rest of the midfield. So I think Jürgen Klopp will be a very, very happy man going into this weekend's fixtures. Yeah, for sure. When you speak about Liverpool potentially challenging for the English Premier League title, and you say that they are odds and favourites to win the Europa League. And if they are going to go deep in the various competitions or when they go deep in the various competitions, they will need the depth if they are to go over the line. And from that standpoint at least, Jürgen Klopp would have been happy to have Gagpo back in his team after a month out with injury. Yeah, imagine a Liverpool squad that scores five goals and most salad doesn't start. Of course, he came on and then he scored at the end. But that just shows you the depth that they have from an offensive standpoint. And they really dominated this football game from an offensive standpoint. The movement, the interplay, the imagination, as I mentioned, of course, Elliott Jones, Noma Callister, it was really an impressive and you're right. When you're talking about going deep in competitions, when you're talking about doing well in the EPL, doing well in Europa, you need a big squad. It is no if ands or what's about it simply because when you get to that stage, what I call the business and the competition, you need all your players fine and all cylinders. And from a perspective of what we know transpired for Liverpool last season when they really struggled, this season a little bit is a lot different because of the depth. And I would imagine as well, Ricardo, when you have depth in a squad, there's a side of the pitch that a lot of people don't recognize. The competition and training is intense. And it means that players have to be on their peas and queues and always wonder whether or not they're going to be in that start in 11. When you have that in your squad, in your dressing room, in your locker room, it makes things a lot brighter for you in your football team. And I guess you can imagine what that Liverpool training ground is like. Every day, everyone is fighting for a spot on that team, and that would only bode well for Klopp and what he wants to do. Yeah, quick one, Brenton, about 25 or 30 seconds. I know that you said that this was an impressive performance on the attacking end from Liverpool. And I know that because they were left open at the back quite often in this game. In fact, Toulouse should have had at least one more goal, I mean the gaping goal. And I think it was Alexander Arnalou cleared off the line. So Liverpool defensively might still have a few things to work out. Yeah, they do, and they still, because the way Klopp wants to play, he wants to play high up the park, he wants his wing back to, of course, explore the spaces ahead of them, and they will always be in situations where they end up in 1v1 situations at the back, and Klopp believes that his centre halves should have the ability to defend in those sorts of situations. And you're right, I think for them to be successful, yes we talk about having a huge squad and doing well from that department, scoring goals is great, but if those centre halves are not capable of doing their duty in their 1v1 situations, that they will have, all that we talk about here would come to normal. Okay, Brent, we're going to leave the UEFA Europa League there for today. Stay with us, you'll talk some schoolboy football from TNT with us after that, but here are the remaining results from matchday three of the UEFA Europa League. Thursday football, Topola beaten at home by Freiburg, who go joint top of the table at the moment, falling Westam Slip today, Real Betis won over Aris Limassol, Marseille winning 3-1 over AEK Athens, who are still without their Trinidadian striker Levi Garcia, who is injured, 1-1 between Rakau and Sporting, Sparta Pragnilov with the Rangers, Atalanta 2-2 at Sturmgraz, Molde 5-1 over Hakan Karabagh, beaten 5-1 by Barre Leberkusen, who are also group leaders, Shtad Rehn, group leaders as well, defeating Panathanaikos 2-1, Sherith Tirisfal 1-1 with Serbet, Ajax beaten by Brighton 2-0, A.S. Roma 2-0 over Slavia Pragn, what go there from Lukaku and Royal Union, who were 2-1 winners over at last, we go to break. Back with more after this, Brent talks some schoolboy football with us from TNT on the other side of the break.