Good morning, Hickets Tuesday. Every four years, the 32 best men's national soccer teams gather together for the World Cup, which is played in whatever country has most successfully bribed FIFA officials. It's the most watched sporting event in the world, and the United States won't be there. Here's an introduction to the 32 nations that will. Argentina have Lionel Messi, arguably the best player never to win the World Cup. Australia's national team are called the soccer ruse, which makes them hard to dislike. Belgium have Argyle in their uniforms, so they'll probably win the tournament. Brazil are consistently a joy to watch, except when they are playing Germany, and they're the favorites to win the World Cup this year. Colombia's jerseys look like they have an armpit sweat pattern, but I will not let that distract me from the extraordinary good looks of their star player, Jamez Rodriguez. Costa Rica just passed the United States in life expectancy, in addition to beating us twice in World Cup qualifying, so that's nice for them. Croatia are notable for having a chessboard on their uniform. Denmark invented Lego, so that makes them fun to root for. Egypt has qualified for their first World Cup since 1990, and they are led by noted hero in Dreamboat Muhammad Salah, and their goalkeeper is 45 years old, which is a real inspiration to old people like me. All in all, they are my adopted team for the World Cup. England, right, so the deal with England is that every World Cup, all the fans are like, our team isn't even that good. We probably won't even make the quarter-finals, and then they do make the quarter-finals, whereupon they lose, and all the fans are shocked and devastated that their national team did exactly what it always does. France's mascot is a rooster. Also, they're a trendy pick to win the World Cup this year, but they couldn't beat the United States in a friendly over the weekend, so I'm a bit dubious. Germany are very good, and they have a manager who always looks like an aging beetle trying to hail a cab. Iceland qualified for the World Cup despite having a population smaller than Wichita, Kansas. How are we not going to the World Cup? I'm sorry, that is off topic. Congratulations to Iceland, who would be a great pick for my adopted team if it weren't for my undying love for Muhammad Salah. Iran's backup goalkeeper slept on the floor of the pizza restaurant where he worked until signing a professional contract a few years ago. Almost all of Japan's players play professionally for Japanese teams, which is why it's no excuse to say MLS isn't good enough to develop World Cup-level players. Mexico are obviously the best team in North America. Also, they have Rafa Marquez, who will be playing in his fifth World Cup. Morocco have a very strong defense, which they will need against Spain and Portugal. Nigeria, meanwhile, have the best kids in the tournament, and if they weren't in the hardest group, they might go far, but they are in the hardest group. Panama have qualified for their first World Cup ever, which is great, and I am totally over the fact that they beat the United States in qualifying. How do you lose to Trinidad? My friend, the writer Daniel Aurokonas Peruvian, and their uniform has a sash, and they've qualified for their first World Cup since 1982, making them an excellent choice for your adopted team until and unless you look into these dreamy eyes. Poland are a good long-shot pick to go far in the tournament if their star striker Robert Lewandowski is in form. Portugal have Cristiano Ronaldo, if you're into that kind of thing. I'm sorry, I'm trying to work my way through some of my issues around Real Madrid right now. Russia's hosting the tournament, and I'm not gonna say anything else because I am genuinely scared of Vladimir Putin.  Serbia has a defense with tons of experience, or put another way, they're old. Nobody agrees with me, but I think Senegal could go to the semi-finals because Sadio Mane is really good, and no, this video has not been biased by my affection for Liverpool. South Korea's coach is only four years older than Egypt's goalkeeper. Spain are kind of the Yankees of soccer. Sweden no longer has football's biggest personalities, Latin Ibrahimovic, so why bother? Switzerland specializes in neutrality, which is perhaps why they play so many excruciatingly boring nil-nil draws. Tunisia's kits look so good, I bought one, but I fear their World Cup will be brief. And last but not least, Uruguay are probably best known for having a striker, Luis Suarez, who has bitten opponents on three separate occasions. But that ignores the important fact that in more than 99% of his competitive games, Luis Suarez hasn't bitten anyone, a nearly perfect record. I'll be live tweeting every game of this year's World Cup at my sports Twitter, at sportswithjohn, I hope to see you there. Hank, I will see you on Friday.


Peewee Herman's gizmo drenched playhouse is the real deal, or at least the outside of it is. While the actual home boasts the white picket fence you'd no doubt expect, unfortunately the exterior of the structure isn't painted the same pillar box shade of red. The real house was built in 1922 and boasts two bedrooms, two bathrooms, as well as just under 1300 square feet of space. The cool thing is that even without Peewee's unique lawn art, this home is still recognizable. Peewee's rickety old garage is still on the property as well as that white picket fence. However, set pieces that were specifically designed for the film, like Peewee's mailbox, have been taken down and replaced with much tamer items. No wonder.


All righties! So we have a huge update today. We have one of those preparing for your future enjoyment signs that have popped up at Canada's Wonderland this weekend. And we have really exciting haunt updates that I'm going to give you some views of as well as the new haunt store and a little snapping turtle baby that we found at Canada's Wonderland which was adorable at the very end. So stay tuned for all that. But first, a sign that has popped up at Canada's Wonderland, please excuse our appearance as we prepare for a future experience has popped up. And for those of you that know my previous videos, I talked about a Harmony Hall coming to Vortex Hill, and I also talked about a dark ride experience flying theater, potentially coming to action theater. I was starting to lose hope of that, I'm going to be honest. I was really starting to lose hope and thinking that it was pushed back to 2023, but now we are seeing signs that maybe that isn't the case anymore or it's just going to take a lot longer to build than normal and they're just starting early, or it's a Whitewater Canyon re-theme like Knott's Berry Farm. It could be any one of those, it could be future preparation for even like a ghost town alive experience coming into the middle part of Whitewater Canyon. Who knows? It could be so many different things. It is not a coaster, it's not future prep for a coaster, it would have said preparing for, they would have used different terminology. The experience definitely has flying theater written on it, ghost town alive type of experience for Frontier Canada, or a Whitewater Canyon themed upgrade. This is one of the Haunted Scare Zones. It is literally set up exactly like a haunted house just outside, so really excited about that, seeing that Wonderland's kind of actually not just using generic scare zones. They have gone all out in terms of theming for this specific one that I'm showing you. So it's definitely really exciting. I'm going to show you the other side of it here. They've incorporated Frontier Canada theming into this area and it honestly looks really cool. They were still setting it up as we filmed over this fence. So I'm going to show you a little sneak peek. It looks amazing, like honestly, like it's so cool and then it turns into a little haunted house, like outdoor haunted house just down on the splash path over there. So this looks really cool. Honestly, I was expecting it to be very like nonchalant because of the last minute change to just focused on scare zones. I was expecting them to just throw up like a few tombstones and stuff like that. But yeah, nonetheless, it looks like they're putting a lot of effort into it and that they were able to secure some funding to get some new set designs for these new scare zones. So definitely super excited about that. And I'm super excited about Howling Haunt this year just because it feels like it's been a really long time since I've been to Howling Haunt because of everything that's been going on. And maybe that's why I'm so impressed with everything. But oh my goodness, I'm going to give you guys a tour of the new Haunt store at Frontgate because I already bought a few things. I bought this like skeleton phone and this skeleton skull that literally looks like Krega and then this king queen skull. So super excited about that. They have the Winterfest store already set up. I think they're going to open it like they did in 2019. So that's interesting and new as well. And some of the old, I mean not old, some of the Howling Haunt shows are being set up as well. Sink the Jerk will be returning. It looks like there could be a new version of Sink the Jerk also being built in the same area. So maybe to up capacity of Sink the Jerk is what they're aiming for. But yeah, here's the tour of the new Howling Haunt store near Frontgate and then there'll be a cute little club of the snapping turtle near the end. If I sound exhausted or sick, I've worked literally 58 hours by the way this week and then woke up at 6 a.m. to go to Canada's Wonderland from 7.30 a.m. until 9 p.m. today and then I'm literally going back to five days straight of work. So I am exhausted and it's hitting me really hard. So I apologize for the really low enthusiasm in this video. For those of you that were at Wonderland today, I am so very enthusiastic about Wonderland's future with that sign popping up. It's great news and stay tuned. I have some cool videos coming out from the ACE event today. The interview with Peter, the head of construction and planning. So there's a lot of information in there. So stay tuned for that. We'll have that up either later tomorrow or Monday morning. But yeah, nonetheless, the merch is really cool in this shop and it's actually really reasonably priced. Like I was expecting like $100 items like you see at the store in Medfare with their little sculptures of dragons and castles. They're really expensive. Those mugs are like $2.99, the sweaters I think is like one of the most expensive items at like $60. But they are so cool. Look at that design. Look at it. It's so cool. But yeah, all the merch is so awesome. I love it so much. They did a really good job and I definitely walked out spending about $150 on my first shop at this store. So I definitely plan on spending more. I'm like a huge nerd when it comes to beautiful Halloween designs and crafts and stuff. So this store was everything that I could have dreamed for. It was exactly like the Winterfest store, just Halloween themed with all the crazy awesome Christmas merch they had for Winterfest. And yeah, like super excited. I'm trying to think if there's anything else Halloween Haunt related that I need to go over. So we went over the new sign for 2022-2023 attraction. We went over Halloween Haunt set up, which is really exciting. And Winterfest will be happening and they literally have next to no prep time in between Halloween Haunt and Winterfest. So it's going to be crazy that they get the parks switched on over to Winterfest in like a week and a half. I think it is. So definitely super excited. I don't know about you. I know a lot of people are talking about time flying by right now and the fact that it feels like summer just passed us by. But I'm super excited for the fact that we're heading into Halloween Haunt and Winterfest. So I know that I'm the only one in terms of that, but I love Winterfest so much. And I totally understand why people prefer the summer season over Winterfest. So don't hate me too much for my opinion. But nonetheless, we were over at Behemoth and we noticed this little snapping turtle baby just walking on the pathway where a lot of guests were walking and standing. So one of our people that was with us, Alex, quickly moved it to safety into a grass area so it could go back down into the river. I didn't even know snapping turtles lived in that pond. So it was shocked when this little tiny, little tiny snapping turtle there was right on the Behemoth Midway where the fast lane is as you can see that yellow sticker. So thank you to Alex for saving the little snapping turtle baby. And thanks so much for watching this update. Hopefully you're having an amazing weekend, guys. And thanks so much for watching my videos, even this one, with such an unenthusiastic voice. I apologize. It's really just because I'm not feeling well. So thank you so much for supporting us and watching this video. Comment down below what you would like to see in terms of future content because we are looking for some awesome ideas and we have some new people that have joined the team that are going to be working on voiceovers.


ddweud eich llaw, ddweud eich gweithio, a rwy'n erbyn i fynd i'r fwyllt arall y Llyfrgell Martyn Welr, ar hynny, sy'n cerddwyr y gweithio'r ysgolwyddiad, rwy'n gweithio'r ysgolwyddiad arall y gweithio. Ddweud ar hynny, ddweud i'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r lŵr ysgolwyddiad, ddweud i'r gweithio'r ysgolwyddiad. Hi, gwaith felly ar gweithio ystod, mae'r rhai warchonion clwyswyr o awrthod o'r Cymru. Wythfaith gwneud ymmell yn eu wneud, mae'r mwyaf i chi eich greu newid gyda throm agor a fydd yw'r cyffredin awrthod o gweithio'r strategiaidd ac roeddwyd yn ôl i'r fath, oedd sy'n dechrau eu gwriodau a wahanol i'w drwng a'r ddull i'r gwneud. A rwy'n mwyaf ni'n i ddwy aqurddio'n cyd. Wawrthod yw'r warchonion, gwylwyd ar gweithio. Felly, yn y cwrs yma, wrth gwrs yma, rydyn ni'n ardal y rhan o'r cyflwyno yma, ac mae'n gwneud hynny i'r peth yn ei phobl i'r ysgolwyd yn rhywbeth i gael'r cyflwyno'r cyflwyno. Ac rydyn ni'n credu cyflwyno'r cyflwyno'n gyflwyno. Rydyn ni'n trafod y gweithio'r gweithio ar Ym Ffabri, at UCL, dydyn ni'n gweithio'r Gweithio'r Llywodraeth. Ac we can, I really just used that to explore what the assembly would look like. Get ideas from them and then feed forward with what that would be like. One really great achievement from that is that since February. We've established East of England Alt Members Group which now completes alt UK domination. We have turned the map green next step to the world. I'm not going to mention Brexit so it's fine. I'm not going to mention it so it's fine. so that that was a kind of a big ambition for Alts to kind of make sure that map was all green and we done it this year. Also, through the Assembly we put it's there and discussed that the the Evaluation of Learner Experience Seek group this has been around for some times very vibrant community and they've now come under the Alts umbrella if you like especially in just groups. So really glad to welcome them into the Alts Fold and one of things that came out of that meeting back in London, was people said you know we kind of run a we all do our own thing and we've got really good practice but we don't get a chance to share it. So, what they worked on all those groups and got together and discussed through a joint document producing a community guide. So anyone setting up a new interest group will have advice on what to do and where to go from there. So that was a direct output of that early meeting and the subsequent online meetings. The Assembly has also really helped to inform the Seymol pathways ac mae'r syniad, mae'r ffordd cyllidio sydd yn gweithio eich cyfledd yn dyfodol. Mae'r ffordd yn ddod y rhaid o'r rhai o'r sefydlu sy'n helpu i gydig i gydig i ddod y dyfodol. Dyma o'r ffordd yn ddigon i'r ffordd i gydig i'r gael'r newydd ymlaen, mae'r newydd ymlaen i gydig i fy ngynghwyr 4 yma, yn gyflaen i'r newydd 3 yma, ond hi'n gwybod. A mae'r ffordd yn y ffordd yn gwybod i'r gael'r newydd i gydig i'r gael'r newydd, ..a Brisbane yn ymwneud. Ond yr awr strategiaeth yr oedd yn gweithiasgion... ..a'r tîm ymddangas cyflym ymylfawr hynny. Felly mae'r awr strategiaeth yn gweithio'r gweithio... ..a hynny'n ddiddordeb sydd yn bwaith, a'ch eisiau gyda'r greaddau... ..yng Nghymru i chi'n gweithio a chanol â'r strategiaeth... ..mon i chi'n ddim yn mynd i gweithio ar gyfer yr oedd ymylfawr... ..yngor iawn, sicrhau. When the new strategy is consultation is now underway and so I wanted to share with you just a couple of ways in which we're inviting members to engage in which we really want to hear your voices, your priorities, the things that you want to see out address in the next few years. And I wanted to share with you a little bit of an insight into what that process looks like for the Board of Trustees and for senior staff because obviously some of the consultation is already underway. And this particular piece of visual thinkery is a product of the earliest meeting for some of the trustees and some of the staff to get together to start working on the new strategy. Now, there are a whole range of opportunities to engage as we go on to that journey and you can see up here the suggestion box that is already live and receiving suggestions on the old website where anyone can provide input and make suggestions. Then today's meeting is part of our way to try and spread the word so that for those of you in particular who are running members groups or special interest groups, that you are able to find out how to engage with the strategy and hopefully vitalise your communities into providing input. The winter conference in December is going to be a hugely important milestone where we have a number of online sessions between now and the conference and then more open sessions at the conference. Last time we did the strategy, the Board ran very successful webinars online for everyone who couldn't come to physical events like this one and we hope to have similar amount of engagement if not more this time round. And the formal consultation really concludes with our big annual survey which will have a special section on the new strategy hopefully informed by all the input we get between now and December. And that is open to everyone in the community to complete. Now I wanted to specifically mention the alt annual survey because obviously as well as informing the internal work of alt it is also becoming an increasingly valuable resource generating anonymised open data which helps institutions within the community to map professional practice and how it is developing. One of the new ways in which we've been exploring the survey this year and my colleague Martin Hoogsy has led on this work is really looking at the results from the annual survey from 2014 to 18 for example agenda perspective. Now this is only one example of how we can make use of the data that we have in our community and we'd like to hear from you of other things that you'd like us to include in the survey, questions you'd like us to ask, different perspectives you within your institution or you as an individual would find useful. So please consider how you might wish us to expand the survey so it can become more useful to you in the future. Now here's a summary of the consultation timeline so as I said it's already underway starting in June and now in September this is where we are where we're kicking off the formal consultation with members groups and special interest groups. There'll also be another update on this at the annual general meeting tomorrow afternoon. Then the assembly meetings in November and October will feature consultations with members as well and they are open to anyone and everyone and all online. And then in December as I mentioned the annual survey consultation with the winter conference and excitingly the new strategy is only a few months away in February. Now as Martin mentioned in his introduction the assembly is only launched in February and was only agreed at the last AGM. So I just wanted to remind you all because I think many of us are still getting used to the way it works and how it works and what's involved. That you are all here as part of it and a very important part of the governance structure advising the board of trustees and hopefully being supported by the staff team. Now many of you will have noticed that we've been short a membership manager for a few months now and I'm very very excited to say that since yesterday we have a new membership manager in the form of our now very own Debbie Baff. And so I was hoping you could maybe put your hands together briefly to just welcome our new membership manager who will work with all of you as members in member groups and special interest groups. I think Debbie is just over here if you want to give a wave. Fantastic. OK. And now I hope that Martin and I will be able to welcome on the stage five minute updates from various members groups. We have updated the agenda as of four o'clock this afternoon. But if you are from a members group and we haven't called you up and you're not on the agenda there's open slots at the very end of the meeting. You each have maximum of five minutes and as we want to give everyone a voice please stick to that time. So the first members group that we are inviting up to the stage is the East Midlands Learning Technologies Groups. Anyone here from that group? Fantastic. Rich please welcome Rich. Thanks Martin. I'm here as one of the co-chairs of East Midlands Learning Technologies Group and my other co-chair Laura is sitting down there. We had a slight mix up over trains and timings over who was going to do this. So I've got the job but that's fine. So let's tell you a few things that we've been up to this year. We had a good event back in the spring time which was designed around assessment to looking at things around authenticity on anonymous marking. This has become quite a hot topic in some of our particular areas around the East Midlands and we had a lot of people here at a session hosted at Loughborough and we talked a lot around things around anonymity and authenticity. Now we didn't record the sessions, we do try and record our sessions with our host institutions but we had some kind of very sensitive discussions going on around this particular area and the participants didn't really want certain things being recorded and it was very much a kind of a closed house of things that we were talking about because there were some things that we didn't want leaking out of those four walls on that particular day. So it was a really good session, we had loads of participation from the people that turned up and those that were here at the event definitely seemed to enjoy it and were very good with their feedback about what they'd liked about the session and it was basically not a lot of people talking at them. There was lots of sitting around in groups and talking about the issues and going over some of the things that we'd been going on and specifically at Loughborough we are moving to a fully anonymous submission and marking from this September slash October. So we shared our initial thinking around that and some of the things there helped us to clarify what we were doing. So yeah, it was really good and I think we concluded that the technology bit is really easy, all the various tools that are out there we use Moodle and Turn In and other things. It's really easy to get that set up. It's the humans that get in the way and make this quite tricky. Particularly for example students if you ask them to submit things anonymously then they'll put in their name as the first thing they do or in the file name or everything else.  So yes, I suspect there'll be a lot more people looking into that as the next year comes. For our next event there's some possibilities around something at Derby around Sticky Campus that we've very briefly talked about. We might do an online event around things around Office 365 and Microsoft Teams which keeps changing. It's raised on debt for every single day so far but I think it's going to settle down very soon. So there's a lot of interest in using some of those technologies and kind of bringing them in alongside things that are happening in families and getting teams working together. So we've got a lot of things to think about before we work out what our next event is. But yeah, we've had a really good session this year and we've definitely got an active group of members who like to come along and share. They're definitely not backwards incoming forwards are they? Right, I think that's enough for me. Oh yes, sorry. Shameless self-promotion which I forgot. There's a joint East Midlands, West Midlands and M25 group tomorrow afternoon. Sadly we've got to compete with the GASTA, sorry GASTA people. But we've got a session on technology reviews including the VLA review talk it. We'll also be talking about lecture capture reviews and voting system reviews and lots of other reviews. There's a panel of four or five people sharing their experiences of reviewing things. Right, I'll show that now. Thank you. At this stage we want to give a big shout out to the M25 group. No one from the group is actually here to give a live update but our agenda has also written updates. So please do visit the online agenda for details. Now next up is the North East Regional group and I'm hoping I'm going to welcome someone to the stage from that member's group. Fantastic, please give a warm welcome. Welcome to you. Please, thanks. Okay, tip tour. So I'm Julie from Durham and my co-chair over there is Graham Richard Boxwell from Newcastle University. We've been running regional group for a long time but we morphed into an old regional group about 18 months ago. Okay, so we were running groups. We would decide, okay, let's run a group meeting. When are we going to run it? It was very ad hoc. We chose a date. Then it was which, who's going to talk about what. Everything we talked about was all relevant but it was a mishmash of what we were going to talk about. One thing, nothing seemed to relate to each other anyway but we all agreed as a learning technologist from the five institutions in the North East that we found a value in meeting together to sit and talk and have an open conversation in a safe environment. Is this too loud? Okay. So when we became an old group, we went to the old assembly earlier. Was it last year? Was it this year? This year? We took on board having a management structure. So that is what we went back and put in place. So the five institutions now we each have a representative on the management board. We have scheduled three dates throughout the coming year. We have decided that we will run a theme at the first half of the day. So we've chosen accessibility as our first one. We've chosen the host so we rotate it around the five institutions so that not one institution has to keep hosting it. And so our next one is going to be about accessibility. But we decided that we still wanted to have a free-flow afternoon session so that if there are any topics, hot topics that people will come up, they could actually just list them. So at the moment we are gathering the management board of finding speakers to come along and talk about accessibility. We have had Alistair McNaught talk at our last one. But we know that, for instance, York University, who are not in the North East, they are doing some good things on accessibility. So we're inviting them as guests up to talk as well. We haven't been very good in the past at documenting what we've been doing. So with the new management structure that's the something that we are going to put into place. And so we've got to start blogging.  But having a management structure is going to allow us to articulate this and write it down and share it with the wider community. Anything else you want? Here we're normally, oh sorry, normally they just found out a few weeks before that there was a meeting coming up and just allowing everyone to be more organised. And it allows people not just to attend, to increase the attendance, it also allows people to contribute more because they know the theme coming up and stuff like that. So I think it's helped me enjoy these stress levels something. Right next up we have the first contribution for our newest special interest group. So please put your hands together for our very brand new alt elastic. I guess three for the price of one. So we're very excited to launch our elastic here and I think we will explain what elastic means. It's a bit of a mouthful but basically we are interested in evaluation of learners who are using technology. And my name is Tundi Vargatkin. I'm the chair. I'm Vicky Dill, I'm secretary. Denise Sweeney and I'm in the organising committee. Yeah and shout out for Mary as well who is here from Glasgow. So as Marren said we're very excited to launch this group and so who are we? What are we interested in? So we're a community of researchers and practitioners who are very interested in peeping. So wherever there is the sort of old community is interested in, we like to peep in and see how students, learners from whatever sector are using technology and how we can go about evaluating that. The other thing we again that links with Marren said earlier that one of the things we like to do is sharing practice and sharing resources and methodologies that we might be using in this process. I mean this slide is just a pictorial representation of the sort of things we have done and Vicky will talk a little bit about where we have come from as an elastic group. We like to keep up to date with research, finding new methodologies which we can use in our investigations and also disseminate and collaborate. So one of the things we're really interested in doing this year is inter-institutional collaborations doing similar topics and researching on that and working together. I think the other thing we'd like to say that we are very informal and friendly group and that's some of the things that people have highlighted. In terms of another way to benefit, you all know that research and scholarship can contribute to certification, whether it's the UK PSF, the HAA fellowship or Seamalt as well. So I think that's one of the reasons why we are quite keen to work together and share practice. OK, so Vicky we'll talk about where we have come from. So just very, very briefly where we've come from just to mention Professor Rona Sharp who really this is her baby. She launched this in 2008 with colleagues such as Amanda Jeffries who done a fabulous job in bringing together a huge community. We have different regional groups that obviously as we become part of ALT, a special interest group we need to rethink how that's going to map. But we have an organising committee that will take things forward and we're very excited to do that. We did a consultation with members and basically I'm going to go straight to the headline. 77% of active members opted for becoming an ALT SIG. We couldn't please everybody but it was great that the majority decision was to become part of ALT. But what members really value is this distinct focus on learning experience research and there's so much already I've seen in the programme so far. So that's great that we have an arena specifically for that. And it's a friendly, inclusive and member led institution and that I think dovetails, we believe dovetails very well with the ALT values as well. So very excited about taking things forward. And just our organising committee, there's ourselves a number of other people. So give us a shout if you want to get involved as well. We have some people in different regions that haven't been so active so if you would like to be involved just give us a shout. I was just going to say a few things about being a member for about four years. Coming from a practitioner background and moving into doing some doctoral work. ALT SIG was fabulous in helping me really become confident as a researcher. And it's things like NEC working with experienced researchers, being able to share ideas and bounce ideas off people. We've had a really successful webinar series in 2018 which we recorded and had speakers, very illustrious speakers from all around the world. And then what we found from members of our global 2300 lots of people watching the webinars after the event which has been really good. We did a little MOOC a couple of years ago and that was great for people to learn about methods and approaches to learner experience research and looking at the diversity across the different disciplinary backgrounds people come from. So they're just a couple of the webinars we had and something from our little MOOC. We're also keen on anyone who might be doing scholarly work and wanting to disseminate or want to get part of our proposed handbook. We'd really like to talk to people because it is looking at that slide about ALT members. Research is becoming something that we need to know about what the evidence is telling us in our practice. So that's what ALT SIG has done for me and it's been great to meet people and collaborate with people. And just finally the invitation with the dates. We are having a meeting on Thursday between 11 and 12 and I think more and you had a slide on about 5% people doing research as part of their job. So either whoever wants to join, we are inviting you with open arms. So it's either the 5% already doing research or the other, I don't know, 95% whose job might not be yet but they might be interested in working with us. Okay, I think that's it. Thank you. One of our hopes for the ALT Assembly is very much learning about what's going on within the ALT community and all the different things that are happening. And if like me you're not intimately familiar with the schedules of every single special interest groups or members groups, I'm hoping this session is informative. So next up we welcome one of our longest established member groups and please say hello to Joe and Vicky from ALT Scotland. As we get going and find the right hole to stick in, we've probably been going now for about 8 years. Our usual cycle is actually to have a planning committee that organises an event in about June time, which is where kind of FE and HE staff can get along to and we use a jisc mail list. We use a jisc mail list and I think I hope you all can hear me. We use a jisc mail list to keep in touch with everybody and we usually at the ALT conference, particularly this year when it's been in Scotland, we had a well-attended kind of update meeting that we have to when we're all together at the ALT conference, which we had today in our year now. You ready? Yeah, just about technology under pressure. So all we thought we'd do, there's the mug shots. We've been having the meetings recently at the City of Glasgow College. The items that we put on the agenda are items that come from the steering group and out of the jisc mail list. So what we try and reflect back at people are the kind of things that they're expressing an interest in. I don't know if you want to say anything. So there was a number of different aspects that really came out. The chatbots provided some food for thought in terms of the ethical aspects of chatbots for student queries and support. But there's a lot of focus on e-portfolios as well as the ongoing commitment of ALT Scotland to open educational resources. OK. That's all the current mug shots and you'll get that. I'm not spending too long chatting about who we all are. In the background, we're fortunate to have Sheila McNeill in an advisory role. So we often, often try to get an input direct from ALT just to tell us that we're talking about the right things or if there's any other lessons, any other sigs or any other work we should be learning from. We had some officers retire last year. Again, this is from upstairs so we always plug our own stuff. So that's a useful publication with some nice authors from the Scottish community. And if you've got anything that you would like to plug on your behalf, just let us know about the good work that you're doing so we can share it. And really finally, just to give you an indication of the kind of things we talk about in the background we're talking about today, is some things are aligning quite nicely. There's a new funding council IT strategy up here for further and higher education, which actually embeds open Scotland and open Scotland decorations. So it's a real good, and that's partly due to the support of all consistently helping Lona and I in open Scotland and getting the message out. And so these are the kind of policy landscape and some of the technical landscape that we're operating in. I'm at Glasgow College just now and iPads can be the biggest roll out of iPads anywhere in Europe or something. It's just about about to happen and that will clearly influence what universities and colleges in Glasgow have to have to do. And for next year. Yep, so we've assembled some ideas. These were some things that people suggested for the focus of next year's event. There seems to be a lot of focus on things like data analytics as well as unbundling the VLE and also accessibility. So a lot of the topical debates that have been covered in this conference we're going to be focusing on. Again, if you'd like to share your work in this area, just give us a shout. And that's us at any time you're up in Scotland. You're of course very welcome to come along to one of our out Scotland syguvates. Thank you. There is a blue lego USB. OK, great. Don't lose it. Excellent. And then we have next up. We're waiting with baited breath. We have a contribution from the Open Education Special Interest Group who signed up to another slot. Is there someone here from the group? Yes, hello. Do come up. A warm welcome for the Open Education Special Interest Group. I'm going to multitask and talk at the same time. So my name is Kelly Terrell and I'm from the University of Southampton and I'm the co-chair of the Ault Opened SIG along with Debbie, who is the other co-chair in multi jobs that she has. And I'm really standing in for Theresa McKinnon today who's our chair of our group on the spot. So Theresa put some slides together. There we are because I'd like to bring her into the room properly. She's probably watching now as we speak. This is just Theresa. Just giving an intro into what our group is about. Association for Learning Technology's Open Education Special Interest Group believes education is so important. It needs to be available for everyone. It is our mission to advocate for open education. We share the work of other organisations which advocate open educational practices in order to widen access to learning for all. Organisations such as those which develop open source technologies and those who promote open licensing. We host webinars, discussions and activities with the support of the Association for Learning Technology which contributes to the achievement of our aims. You can now find us on Twitter and just Google Open Education SIG or find us on the Ault website. So there's an awful lot of information about our group on the dedicated OECIG website. The group was established in 2012 and it's got all the information on there about our current committee members. We're very welcoming to anyone else that would like to get involved in the group. We actually had our meet-up this morning which was a great discussion about a number of things. Things that the group's been doing so largely we focus on running webinars, sharing best practice, giving people the opportunity to discuss and raise questions to people who are working in the open. The last one that we did was the preview for OER 19 which we've been very lucky that we seem to manage to get the keynote speakers to come along and run a webinar and have the opportunity to ask questions to them directly and sort of get a bit of a sneak peek of what they're going to be talking about which is great. Hopefully we're going to run some more webinars this year if we've got time. We're also very active in these conference events as well so as I said we had the meet-up this morning. We also tend to run a meet-up at the OER conferences as well and the Aught Winter Conference will be putting things on and Theresa tends to run fun sessions as well as sharing the work that we need to be doing. It's probably about it. I guess the other thing as I say is if anyone else wants to become a member if you want to just be part of the conversation the website is open. We're always looking for people to share blog posts on there as well. Theresa, open for all. We've got two more members groups who are going to share their work with us today. If you are in the room and you still want to present and we haven't come to you yet we have the White Rose Learning Technology group coming up and then the Al East England group coming up as well. If you want to present still please raise your hand or make yourselves known and we'll just get you up on stage. I've slightly lost my slides so I'm just going to get them back up. In the meantime please put your hands together for Graham McElhaney. Thanks very much. This is a rather, I think should we use ad hoc or impromptu as a means of describing what I'm going to tell you. The main thing to report is we've had two meetings this calendar year and they've both been in York actually so I was really interested in what the colleague from the Northeast group was saying because that was nearly going to be a really good segue if I'd gone on after you but that wasn't the case. You're absolutely right, I'll come on to what Lillian's doing in a moment but when we started which was quite a few years ago I think it was about 2010 it was a bit of an ad hoc one and it was actually really inspired by hearing people Matt Lingard of Rose Heaney talking about the M25 group and I thought what a fantastic thing we thought we were doing. The focus has been tends to be on what I'm not called crowd sourced meetings so we use Google Docs and an email discussion mainly and we allow or we like presenters to perhaps dictate what would they like to be in the group and one of the things we try to emphasise is that if you come and make a presentation to your local sig that is of course a great thing you can use as part of your C-mult or as part of your SFHEA so I think people have really kind of responded well to that so the first one of the year we had one of these kind of more open ones five sort of 20 minute sessions but then we also went a bit more thematic with our second meeting which was at the University of York at King's Manor which is an amazing place actually if you've not been it's an old medieval manor which they also hold the archaeology part of them and that was very much a focus on accessibility so again we were very lucky to have Alistair Macnaught come and present a webinar very much set the scene and Alistair is I think amenable to doing more of these gave us a sort of breakdown of just how scary some of that legislation might be and then we had a great presentation from Kirstyn Thompson in York effectively a workshop analysing in a rather more holistic way the accessibility around learning resources and then we gave our old friends Blackboard a bit of a pitch because they also said they'd pay for the lunch and so they came and actually showed us Ally because we know Ally's a really big player in this field at the moment so that's kind of what we've done I'm conscious of the fact that we don't have anything like the same developed membership and management structures that other colleagues are doing so I think that's a real work in progress for us to take on board and I've had four volunteers from the group to take a bit more of a structured approach this doing because as I'm sure you all know these things don't take zero time they take a bit of time to put together and the other thing I'm very conscious of is we probably ought to be doing more for members in terms of things like webinars in between physical meetings so again that's another thing we're going to look at so I'm really pleased to hear what people are doing there and I think perhaps I was really pleased that we had an old assembly meeting about two months ago via a webinar and that was a great way we had a bit of a focus on regional groups so I found that brilliant to be able to actually make contact with other people and find out what we're doing so that's been it for us really we're just going to start putting together the next meeting which I think we'll be in probably November time great stuff thank you very much cheers right so concluding our assembly members groups update is one more special interest group or rather a members group 40 east of England so Neil take it away hello so we were founded in November last year we've got three of us on the organising committee and we had our first event in May which was on gamification which was a lot of fun so we kind of theme our events around a topic that the institution suggests our next one is in November from the 8th of November in Bedford in Luton and it is on supporting the attainment gap with early technology and we're looking for presenters for that one so get in touch if you want to present and we're going to have our meeting in January so we've got three meetings a year that we're doing that's going to be at Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge so we're going to have a day with that one sort of like a whole day the minute we've got a half a day so we're going to go for a full day it's like a celebration if you like of the group and we're doing a talk tomorrow a tour of the learning spaces at the University of Edinburgh that's at two o'clock it's in the Appleton Tower room 205 so if you fancy doing a bit of tweeting and also learning about the university what they have to offer then come along to that so thank you very much cheers now Morton Weller and I will just tell you a little bit about what's coming up in the next couple of months and thank you all for attending so Morton did you want to go through Marron declined my suggestion we do this as a wrap battle so coming up in the next few months we'll be carrying on with the strategy consultation that we outlined in various means published in that community guide which I think will be really useful for all the different groups we've seen today and then we'll have the winter conference and there's also an opportunity to input to the strategy there and Seamolk Pathways Engagement so launching that tomorrow the new ones and getting people to come forward with that don't this anymore Marron just that the next meeting of the assembly is on the 3rd of October so less than a month away the details of the meetings and the agenda are always openly accessible to all so please do come and join online at the meeting on the 3rd of October so thank you everyone I just want to say it was really good to hear from all different groups like I often don't know what different groups do so it was fascinating to hear from them I really enjoyed hearing them that was excellent so thank you everyone and we'll see you well we've got drinks now, is that right downstairs so free drinks I don't know if anyone's interested in free drinks we'll go and do that and then see you back tomorrow so thank you everyone for coming


For the next 30 minutes or so, we'll be talking about topics like does service design exist in greater China? How do we transform or reinvent design methodologies to fit the Asian culture? And finally, we'll talk about the differences and similarities between service design and business design. I'm Elaine En and this is the Service Design Show. I'm Mark van Tijn. Welcome to you two weekly bursts of inspiration where you get to learn what some of the world's best service designers are currently doing. We talk about the current state of the field, exciting new developments, and the challenges that are up ahead. The Service Design Show is all about helping you to become a better service designer so you can make a bigger impact on the world around us. We bring you a new episode every two weeks on Thursday, so if you haven't done that already, be sure to subscribe. My guest in this episode is Elaine En. Elaine is the founder of a consultancy company called Kaiser Innovation that helps Western companies figure out the China market. Elaine has a strong interest in the traditional Chinese culture and uses that to reinvent design methodologies to fit the Asian market. Elaine is also running the IXDA community in Hong Kong, so she has a strong background within this field. Welcome to the show, Elaine. Thank you, Mark. Elaine, it's a pleasure to have you here, and like I said in our chat before, I'm really happy to have more guests from Asia, so I'm really excited for our chat. Elaine. Thank you, me too. I'm really curious. Service design is quite new in Asia, but I'm so curious. Where did you learn about service design? What is the first time that you heard about the topic? I actually grew up from Hong Kong, and I lived in the U.S. for 12 years in the 90s, so I actually saw this whole industry develop. I think service design, the name didn't really surface until maybe six to eight years ago, but I was enjoying user experience, and before that it was called interaction design, and before that it was called user interface. So I was involved in the whole development of this industry, and now it's service design, so it's really the channels and mediums that have changed. And do you remember? So I've learned it. Do you remember that did you read about it somewhere or did someone point you on the topic? Where did you meet with the term service design? I think it really came about from the U.K., maybe six, eight years ago the term came up, because I think that's where service design really developed. Because U.K. is never not doing manufacturing anymore and not doing a low level service job, so the industry has kind of have to move up for a higher value chain kind of design. Elaine, you've set me three topics that are really interesting, and I've sent you a few question starters that you have near, and we'll go ahead and co-create the questions for the show for the next 20 minutes, right? Are you ready? Yep. So let me pick the first topic of this episode, and it's already one I think that's really dear to your heart, and it's called service design in Greater China. Do we have a question starter that goes with this one? Can you hold it up? It's what if. What if service design is in Greater China? Isn't service design in Greater China already? I would say yes it is, but I think a lot of differences when service design is applied in mainland China or Greater China. Yeah, and the reason is because I have lived in the U.S. for 12 years, so I know how it's done over there, and coming back for 14 years and running my own business to help Western companies over here, I noticed that certain things are very different. Explain what is the biggest difference? I would say that in Chinese culture, this whole hierarchy in organizations like boss, manager, there is a hierarchical order of command, chain of command, that I think service design and innovation needs to happen in a flat culture, relatively, because what happens is if you as a consultant, if you work with middle management and middle management is never talking to top management at the same time, so you can be working in months and then suddenly be surprised. So the whole co-creation part of that we hold there as service design community is really a challenge? It is to a certain extent a challenge, but we've innovated certain methodologies to overcome that. Can you give an example? Okay, for example, I think in a hierarchical culture, of course it depends on the type of business. If it's more of a traditional manufacturing business, that would be very different from an internet business, which are composed of younger people, but let's say we worked on the post office project, which is more governmental and more traditional management culture, usually the top management would only come into the meetings for like 20 minutes or would open the show and then they'll go away and let the operational middle management people work with you, but because it's a very confusion talk down culture that middle management always looks up to the top management for decision making. And sometimes they are guessing what the boss wants or they will choose methods, choose solutions that are less risk-taking or less like shaking the bone. So sometimes like at the end of the day when the top management sees that there'll be a huge discrepancy, you know what I mean? It's what we've experienced sometimes. The nice part about this is I think this also happens in the West, but maybe not as exaggerated. Did you find that you said you've innovated as methodologies and then do things differently? Did you find some sort of solution or how do you cope with this? Because I think if we can learn from you, we can take some things back to the West because this also happens here. Sure. Is that the second question or? Do we? No, it's still the same and now it's still the same, but I... Okay, for example in a co-creation like workshop, everybody has equal voice, right? Yeah. If you have a room full of executives and some are in management positions or who is the boss and some are in operations, the people in operations will tend to be very quiet or they do not want to say something that will get them fired. So we've kind of come up with a method called anonymous postsets, meaning we'll have them, all of them write it down, we'll mix them all up, we'll post it on the wall, nobody knows who said what. Okay, yeah, and then we'll get people to randomly talk about instead of saying who said this thing or who said that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody knows. And does it work? Does it help? Yes, definitely, I think. So people feel like they can voice it and also they're not pinpointed like who said what. So as long as the feedback comes out, but people are not like put on the spot. If you just say, oh, can you tell us what you think that people will feel that they're put on the spot and they don't want to put on the spotlight so much. I think in the Chinese culture, culturally, people like to be more conformist because it's a collectivism culture instead of individualism. People would like to get along, be part of the group. Even if they voice something, they want to voice it in a very smooth way. So they're not challenging issues directly and pinpointing a person. People would take it very personally if you say, I don't like your idea, which I think happens in some Western cultures. Yeah. And people don't take it personally, as personally. But I think this is so recognizable also in our projects, like I said, and maybe not in so much in an exaggerated way. But I think this is why we do these episodes because I think we can learn so much from what happens in a Chinese culture and transfer the interest in bits from that to here. But we're already diving into the second topic. So I'll hold it up and let's continue with this one. And this one is already called design innovation methodologies. Yes. So I have how far, meaning how far apart or how much difference is there between design methodologies, you know, in the West and in like Greatest China, for example. I think yeah, because you learn the methodologies in the US, right? So what is your take? How far, how far are they apart? I think in some ways, certain methodologies are quite far to the age group you're talking to in China, for example. For example, in the West, when we go to do like user research to understand the user needs, a lot of times, especially for American companies, we need to sign NDAs upfront before we tell the user. And we also need to tell the user upfront that they are going to be videotaped. And do they agree with this, right? So all the legal stuff needs to be taken care of up front. However, what we discovered is, I think in China, because people's trust is less based on the law, but based on people. The reason why they will let you in the home. Relationships, yeah. It's all about the relationship. It's not about the company. It doesn't matter if I'm working for this this is this large company. It's more about like if I'm this person's like classmate or family member. So the trust and the people. So if you have them sign, try to get them to sign like a five-page NDA, they're just going to freak out. And not even agree with the interview. Yeah. So what we've invented is something called a one-liner NDA. So what we do is we build the rapport, we go to people's homes, we talk to them, and it's only after we see that they're comfortable and they trust us at the very end of the interview or home visit. We take out this one NDA, which has two parts. One part is the user agrees, the company agrees to keep this information confidential. And then the second part is the user agrees to keep this information confidential. And we do it in the reverse way. We say our company, our client doesn't want to let your stuff go public. And at the same time, we wish that you would also keep it confidential. So it's like a reciprocal relationship, which is what Chinese people are much more used to. So it's not like a one-way street. And because it's online, it's simple to read. Yeah, people would say yes, usually after that. Again, I'm sort of repeating myself throughout this episode, but this is the empathy part that's so important within the service design field. And from what I'm hearing from you, it's much more important even in China than maybe in the West. Yes, yes. I think in the West, it's like, for example, empathy is seen as us using this methodology to study users. So user loss subject matters. You don't have a personal relationship with them, and you don't keep in touch with them. However, in China, it's like the opposite. Sometimes if we go to people's homes, it's actually better in some cases, depending on the target group, to bring them little presence instead of cold cash. And sometimes we need to go through a network of friends and family, and a super extended network, which we have to get the right people instead of cold calling a random database of people. And I guess this is also recognizable. There's noble methodology. I think a lot of service designers are familiar with that. You start with the first circle of people around you, and then you work your way through to interesting candidates instead of cold calling 200 people. And also because in China, the whole China is using WeChat right now. We chat the messaging thing. So each group in WeChat has a few hundred people. You don't see it on WhatsApp or Facebook messaging. So once it has a few hundred people, we can easily send out the recruitment and be able to gather people from all different classes of people. That's like your first circle of it's your network that helps you to get the right people for research, right? Everybody has different groups. For example, in the design community, we might have a group that has service design, or use experience design, or certain people. So there are many, many different groups. And in each group, there are already a few hundred people. So we'll have to send it to different groups to get the right, yeah. Or send it all in one moment. So the question that comes to my mind is you have experience with these methodologies from your own practice, but is there some sort of online resource, a website, or Facebook group, or anything where people can learn more about these methods that are used in greater China? I actually have written an article a long time ago, and it's in a book on Amazon right now. So it's in the internationalization chapter, and it's called Cultural Differences in Ethnographic Research Methodologies in China. So I highlighted why there is this difference, because our culture is fundamentally different. And the West, it came from Plato, Aristotle, and China came from Confucius, right? And the West is more about individualism. And China is very much about collectivism and harmony instead of sticking out and having your own opinion. So this is so fundamental in the way people interact and who to trust. For example, even companies like Airbnb, which is based on the model of sharing economy, which is based on the whole idea that everybody is in a community, right? But the Chinese fabric of trust is based on friends and family. And there's also a concept of in-group and out-group. So people are actually uncomfortable leasing their apartment to a total stranger. Yeah, we base our trust based on the number of reviews that are on Airbnb, right? That's the way we take the trust these days. But I think for Chinese people, if you're in the out-group and you're not part of friends and family, they're like, why should I let you stay in my place? But if they trust you and you're part of the friends and family, they'll be like, then why should I charge you? You know what I'm saying? So the whole sharing economy model is based on, I think maybe the Western culture was developed in the past a long time ago, like the church community. Church communities, it came out from that lineage. And people have more trust in strangers and also trust in the law. But Chinese culture, the whole unit is about the family. We have 100 last names, the Chan, the Li, that's how it came about. So people trust their own family, not necessarily even organizations, I think. Way too interesting a topic to actually move on. But we have to move on, Elaine. Let's move on to the third topic you pointed me to. And it's called service design versus business design. And I think this is also very relevant to us. So why? Yeah, so my question is why service design versus business design? I think the word service design, sometimes it's a little honed on to just service, but actually in an ecosystem of solution, there could be service, there could be hardware products, there could be software products, there could be mobile apps. It's really a whole big experiential design. And also, I think especially in Asia and in China, when you talk about service design, it's not possible, I think, to just design a service and not change the business structure, operations and culture, which means that we must have top down buy-in, we must have the CEO get into this. And all the concepts of design needs to be implemented and bought in by the entire company to make it work. Yeah. I think that's not very different from what I've been experiencing in our projects here. But why did you raise this topic? Why is it specifically interesting to you at this moment? Okay, for example, I think in the West, consultants are viewed as experts, where the bosses would listen to the consultant's opinion as an outsider. I think in Asia or specifically in Hong Kong and mainland China, it's slightly different. What actually works better is if you are the professor or the teacher, a consultant can be viewed as a vendor. And so the attitude is the vendor executes and the boss is actually on the client side.  Right. Your position is different. And I think that's why in Hong Kong and China, we do training. We do it in that way so that the ideas can get implemented afterwards and people have much more respect. So for instance, do you position your own business as an innovation consultancy or as a design studio or as a trading education facility? How do you position yourself? For Western companies, we are a consultancy. For Western companies. And we help them figure out the China market. Chinese users help them figure out the product market, fit the strategy. But in Hong Kong and China, we're positioned differently. We position ourselves as an innovation training company. The reason is also because if you talk about, first, people don't understand what service design is. When people think about service, you think of the waiters in restaurants or hospitality people in hotels. That's what they consider service. Secondly, the word, for example, design thinking is super confusing to people. I think culturally, people think design is about styling. It's about fashion design. It's about interior design. So if we use that word, it's just super confusing. Plus thinking and not doing, it's even more confusing. So we have to return things. The work that I like is, we would say it's actually user or customer-centric innovation. And that includes service. And that includes products and service design. Because people need to see results. They want a term that leads, because in businesses, they understand customer. They actually might not understand user and they might not understand the word design. But innovations are definitely buy-in. So yeah. So in my company, we never call ourselves a design firm because that completely puts us in the wrong place. It's always about innovation. Customer-driven, customer-centric innovation. Yes, because if we say design, people immediately think, oh, you do website design. Or you do graphic design. We're completely not on the same page. Yeah. Well, I guess, again, this is an issue that has been raised all over the world, if I listen carefully to all of my guests. But that's sort of the baggage that design has put on itself right now. Yeah, design is a very confusing word, because it's both a noun and a verb, right? Anything is designed. Yeah. So I think we have to look at it from the business people's perspective. Plus, if you think about businesses, they are designing their businesses. Yeah. Whether they hire us or not. So Elaine, moving on to my final question in this episode is, what is the question that keeps you awake at this moment? So what is the question, for instance, you would like to ask the people watching this episode? Okay. The question that I like people to think about is, if companies are interested in Asia, especially China, because the market is so large, the population is 4.5 times the U.S. And I think a lot of people might not know that companies like Alibaba, their one-day sale equals to the entire United States' Christmas sales. And WeChat is already 600 million users with 100 million outside of China. 600 million is the size of two United States. So people might not even be aware of that. And if they are aware, then that means a lot of the economic activities that's happening over here, then we as designs have to really understand, look, so how do we design for consumers over here? Are they different? Even the methodologies, do we have to adapt it or reinvent it so that we can get better results or get better insights from it to innovate new services or businesses over here? So how would you summarize your question? I would say think about how innovation or design, service design methodologies works in different cultures. I'm most familiar with China, but even for South America or different cultures, how is it different? Yeah, super interesting. I'm curious what people put your ideas in the comments of this episode. So let's see what people think about it. Elaine, thanks. It was really inspiring and I hope to have many more guests from Asia on the show. It's really interesting. Thanks again for your time. Thank you, Mark. What are your thoughts about the topic we've just discussed with Elaine? What do you think is needed to redesign design methodologies to better fit the Asian culture? Share your thoughts in the comments. The service design show is all about helping you to become a better service designer by sharing real life stories from people that are currently shaping the field. If this is your first time here and you would like to see more interviews with service design pioneers, be sure to check out some of the past episodes and if you haven't done that already, click that subscribe button. I'll see you in two weeks time for a new episode featuring Muna Aldaba who will be talking about customer happiness projects. Make sure you don't miss that one. For now, thanks for watching.