It's four o'clock, I'll call the licensing hearing and public safety committee meeting to order. For those that are present, would you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? This is to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay, everyone is present, it seems like. So we have the quorum. Is there a motion to approve the minutes from November 25th? Motion to approve the minutes. Second. There's been a motion. Ryan, could you speak up a little bit? I'm having some trouble hearing. Yep, there's been a motion by Dean, a second by Barb. Any further discussion on the minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye, the minutes are approved. Okay, item number 3.1, general ordinance number 26-2021 in ordinance amending section 118-276 and 118-279 of the municipal code relating to unlicensed vehicles. Who wants to take this one? Chuck or Thomas? Okay. This ordinance dates back to a situation we were dealing with where a property owner decided that disassembling cars in his driveway was an appropriate thing to do, which is problematic on several levels. But one of the things that this particular property owner was doing is they were staging all of the cars that were going to be disassembled in the neighborhood without license plates on them. And the way the abandoned vehicle ordinance is currently written, it really is focused on vehicles that we have no expectation are going to move. The inoperable, the disassembled, sort of the proverbial vehicle on the front lawn up on blocks. And at the same time, we define an unlicensed vehicle as one that's abandoned. But as I think we all know, unlicensed vehicles can and do sometimes drive around. And whether that's unlicensed because you didn't update your plates, you didn't have the correct tag on or just simply are driving around without a license plate. So this particular ordinance, we've worked with the police department to try to craft something that they think would be useful and functional on their end. And what we're recommending is a tweak to the abandoned vehicle ordinance that does a couple of things. First, it defines unlicensed vehicles. And it defines an unlicensed vehicle as one, let me make sure I get my definition right, as one that either doesn't have, doesn't have a valid registration plate or its registration plate is expired by more than 31 days. So we're not dealing with someone who forgot by a day to get their plates renewed. That's not what we're dealing with. And we also provide that once you are deemed an abandoned vehicle because you are an unlicensed vehicle, essentially that designation sticks with you until the issue is remedied, that's your notice, that's your opportunity to protest. And then if the vehicle is found on any public street, so if it's parked in the right of way, it would be eligible to be towed without an additional notice going out, without an additional 72 hours for someone to remedy it. So the idea is sort of the game of whack-a-mole sometimes gets played with these types of vehicles, hopefully can get sort of short circuited where everyone's still getting notice. Due process is obviously very, very important and was a key part of how we structured this revision. But in the case of a vehicle that may well move, you're getting that notice once. You're still getting notice every time your vehicle is towed, but making it very, very clear upfront that if your vehicle is towed because it's unlicensed, you keep that abandoned vehicle designation until you get your vehicle licensed, which is ultimately the goal. Awesome. Any questions from anybody? Mary Lynn? So I have a couple of issues. As a former traffic prosecutor, I know that at least in the jurisdictions that I represented, the police would typically not issue a citation for an expired license plate until it was at least three or four months, sometimes six months out of date. And the reason for that is people move, mail is not forwarded. I had a number of cases where parties were divorced and there was a lack of communications. Sometimes people get a notice and they simply forget. So I think 31 days. And then of course there's the delays from DMV.  So Thomas walked me through, we were in the process of moving and the notice that I got from the DMV to renew my license got lost. And it's now been more than 31 days. And I have the car parked either on the street or in my driveway. What happens under the abandoned vehicle? Just walk me through how you envision the process. Yeah, so there's sort of the absolute letter of the law and I think there's the intent behind it. And the intent behind this is to provide a very specific tool for sort of the whack-a-mole type situation where you've got this recurring situation. The idea isn't to try to start towing people because the mail gets lost and you've got a vehicle that's 31 days as just sort of a matter of course. I know based on my conversations with the police department and this isn't a step written into the ordinance, but one of the things that they've talked about is, it's crucial for any number of reasons to really try to make contact with the person before we get to this point to speak with, try to make contact with the property owner, with the vehicle owner and to identify what's going on here to issue the abandoned vehicle citation. I see that the chief has turned on his camera. I'm not sure if he's gonna add something. In general, this isn't the first move. It's not, congratulations, you're at 31 days. Here's an abandoned vehicle ticket. We're gonna tow your car. The idea was to provide a definition and to provide a definition that was something other than you are one day late. You know, I think the way it's written now, I think it would provide that if you're one day late, that's an unlicensed vehicle. Yeah, I think, I mean, that is the way it goes. It's currently written and I don't think, I don't think that's how it's, I don't think that's the desired result. I see what you're trying to do and it makes complete sense. How many of these stop laws do we have that are moving vehicles around? And I get, I have gotten at least two in my eight years, I've gotten two calls from constituents who are really upset, understandably with these junk cars hanging out in driveways and things like that. So I'm not hostile to what you're trying to do. I'm just, we can always talk about, it's not the intent, but what's written is written. And I'm just wondering, can we do cheap 45 days? Cheap 45 days, I don't know, maybe it'll be fine. Yeah, well, let's look at the data and show how many situations have happened where a citizen didn't renew their place and their car was towed because of that. So essentially the situation that you're proposing here, if you have complaints or you can demonstrate that we've done that, that would be one case. But that hasn't happened and we don't tow cars that way. What we're talking about is a situation where I would say there's probably five that I can think of off the top of my head, maybe as many as 10 in the city, but that's it. Or it's continuous playing games with us and them using the law as it's written really to take advantage of it. And it's causing great distress in neighborhoods and causing many calls to us. And so we go through all of the steps that are in the ordinance, sending them their letters and arranging for tows. And right before the tow comes, then they move the car across the street. And now we start all over again. And the neighbors are saying, why are you allowing this to happen? Why do you keep doing this?  No, I get it. I mean, we understand. So from that perspective, I think if this is a workaround, then we should do it. I'm just saying that it's in the years that I did this, one of the most frequent tickets that are forfeitures that are issued, at least in the jurisdictions I worked in, those expired registrations.  And so... And I understand totally what you're saying, but the point that I'm trying to make is what we're talking about here is towing a ban in vehicles. And so cars that are just not registered because somebody hasn't responded quickly, the problem would get fixed way before we got to the point where we're telling. Okay, sounds good. Dean, you had a thought? I just want to throw out a few comments. I guess I'm one of the persons that pushed for this ordinance because it did happen in the Indiana corridor. It also happened in the King Park area. They had some issues down there. What we mean, we had the gentleman that was the onus for this would actually, there were cars with flat tires literally sitting on the street. He would move them and then the process would have to start all over again. And as long as the police couldn't sit on this car, these cars and watch them all day, so the guy would just wait until the opportune time, move the car, now the clock has to start all over again. And it is frustrating when you, especially when these cars are the way they are. There's no license plates on them or the license plates don't even belong on the car. They're generally were not registered to people even in Sheboygan. They were, what happens is these gentlemen would buy cars. He never would transfer the title or anything like that. He would keep them under their previous title holder's name and they would just be sitting all over and they would actually be parked two or three blocks away from his residence just to kind of avoid all the, try to avoid all this. And he kept moving them around. So that's where this comes from, I guess. So I'm hoping that you guys will support this. Yeah, and if I could just speak to you and I do appreciate Dean's kind of work on this too. And a lot of the members of the Kings Park Neighborhood Association that I've talked to, we've had some issues in our neighborhood. You know, with folks kind of running their own little shop shops in their neighborhood too. So I'm supportive of this for sure. And I hope that this does give us the teeth to kind of really address some of the problems that we're facing in our neighborhood associations. So I guess, are there any more questions? This may just be me, but I'm still having trouble hearing you. Sorry, I'm leaning too far away from the mic today. I'm gonna look closer here. Mary Lynn for you. Are there any other thoughts or? Any other? Thank you, Ryan. There's no worries. I appreciate it. And any other? Mother Feldinger, sixth grade. Hi, Jose. Any other thoughts or comments or motions? I make motion to approve. There's been a motion by Dane, second by Mary Lynn. Any other thoughts or discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That will be forwarded on to the council. Awesome, 3.2 RO number 98 to 2021, submitting various license applications for the period in the June 30th, 2022, the average operating license application number 3394, 3406, and the change of permits application 3381 for Mayer. City Attorney? Yes, recommending, first of all, that you grant the application of Stephanie Cain. We reviewed that one and decided that should be granted. We'll go separately on the other ones. I think that's probably the best way to handle it. So first a motion to approve Stephanie Cain. Motion to approve Stephanie Cain's license application? Second. There's been a motion in second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Next one. Okay, and then on Amber, I assume she is not in the crowd? She is not in the crowd. Nope. Okay, so we are recommending denial of this license. We did send her a letter indicating that if she wished to have a hearing, she could do so. She did not respond to us and it appears she has not appeared today as well. So on that basis, you can simply deny based on her record of violations relevant to the licensed activity at this point. So that would be our recommendation. I'll move. Second. There's been a motion in second to deny Amber's license. Any further discussion?  Chair votes aye. Then on the Meyer store, Julie did follow up with them, told them what was needed and they got about half of what was needed to her. So we're still recommending holding. We're working with them to try to get it done. Okay. But hopefully next time. So that's a motion to hold. Motion to hold. Motion to hold. Second. Motion in second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, folding, please stay die. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That one's held. Okay, moving along 3.3 RO number 106, 2021 submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st, 2021, June 30th, 2022 beverage operating license number 3413, 30 or 2848, 1509, 3326. Okay, so I'm going to divide this in two just because that seems to be the best way to do it. We are recommending granting the application of Christopher Bernier and Jody Gordon for a taxi cab driver's license. It's the motion to approve those ones. Second. Second. Motion by Barb, second by Dean. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please stay die. Aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. And then we are also recommending granting the applications of Libroy or Tega for a beverage operator license and William Rohr for a taxi cab driver's license. But both of those should come with warnings or Tega is because of a history of violations related to the license activity, which were of concern, but staff felt were sufficiently attenuated in time to warrant granting. And Rohr because of a recent crash in his taxi cab, it was also never reported to the clerk's office by the cab company as required. So those would be grants with warnings. Motion to grant with warnings. Motion to grant with the warnings. Is there a second? Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion?  Chair votes aye. 3.4, RO number 13, 20, 21, taxi cab license renewal application 30, 23, excuse me. Yep, this one is for yellow cab. We're recommending granting this one with a warning. This was the company that Mr. Rohr worked for and it was their duty to report any accident that causes any amount of damage, even if it's simply aesthetic that's in our code, they didn't do it and we actually were gonna hold it but we did get in touch with them and they did finally report it. And so we are recommending granting with a warning. Is there a motion to grant with a warning? Motion to grant with a warning. Is there a second? Second. Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion? All those in favor of granting with a warning, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. All right, 3.5, RO number 114, 20, 21, taxi cab business license application number 3215. This is two guys taxi service. We're recommending granting this license. Is there a motion to grant? Motion to grant. Is there a second? Second. Motion by Dean, second by Mary Lynn. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of granting these license, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. That is approved. All right, 3.6, RO number 112, 20, 21, submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31st, 2021 and June 30th, 2022. So these two. The things in the right order on this agenda, they go from hardest to easiest as we go. This one is very simple. We're recommending granting all the licenses. All right. Is there a motion to grant? Motion to grant. Okay, Barb's got that one. Is there a second? Second. Second by Betty. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of granting the remaining licenses, please state aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. That's approved. Next meeting, December 30th. Seeing that we've exhausted the agenda, is there such a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Second. Okay, second by Barb. All those in favor of adjourning, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Sure votes aye. We are adjourned at 421. Thank you everybody.


Hi everyone, Joe for jaskiescasebreaks.com coming at you with the random number block randomizer for the Bengals, Jets, Falcons, Vikings, and Packers for Panini 1, Picker Team 1. Big thanks to this group here for getting to the action. Congrats again to the winners right here. You won those in that filler pack. The numbers are right there. Let's go. Let's roll it. Randomize names and numbers three and a two five times. One, two, three, four, and fifth and final time. You got Barry down to Qing, and three and a two five times for the numbers. One, two, three, four, and fifth and final time. Got one down to two. Alright, Barry with one, Jeff with seven, Steven and Flatt with eight, and zero. Zero gets you any and all redemptions for that group of teams down there including one of one redemptions. Barry, you still get live one of ones. Aaron with four, Steven with five, Mark with nine, Barry with six, Matthew with three, and Qing with two. Let's order these numerically. And coming up in a different video will be the break itself, jaskiescasebreaks.com. Bye bye.


Ya, I know You know, ata nongopako ongeya in a long voice Hey, hey Chey, it's called Chey Hey, okay Mr. Redfair Yes Ume amwale, umekuja kuma Lisa watu hapakuwa studi Yes Hey, that was an awesome book I know I mean this guy is so talented Very talented Na wile tumiski apunda nindani kuna ile lugaya Bo lingo na ngae He's not from Kenya But he stays in Kenya He's a Congolese And as you've heard, he's very talented And we want to You know, we want to feel more of that talent But before we get there We want to know Redpen Who he is Where he's going What you have in store for us So welcome to the studio Yeah Karibu sana sana Ame niyambia Kizungu, kizungum kutiki dogo So we'll try to stick to Swahili Swahili Which is not a stronghold I know anyway So Mr. Redpen Bono kama kujita Redpen Kala wunye kundo? Redpen simili jpeyo jili Ani watu wali jpeyo jina marafiki zangu Kosmini lianza kupafom Nikuwa mbdogo sana So marafiki zangu wengi Time to lianza music Kutikiwa high school Wengu wa lukwa na rap So many kinds of kusing So lukwa na nita Redpen Ati wana koreg tiki ka For music You know, kama Mali mubleyu fanya Anatik Ah, okay That's creative That's interesting So you're not new to the music industry You're not so new You were signed to a music group What happened? And then you left Kos most of your songs wame fanya na BMG empire What happened? Ono jwe na fukaka sometimes wana pata Dremiya kwa na kwa Jews aidi na place uko So ina umba naji skuma Ah, okay So you're trying to say that Wao hawa kwa na moneka No the same kama wewe Sidi ama nishaifu Lakida na sema Are you sure? Ini fikoma ali Vizionia wangu Ili kwa tufaut ki dogo Na ili bidi na ndele na safari So safari ako sofa peke ako How is it? Na ndele na sema sofa so good Na ndele na poa Ya So kwamsani Is it essential uko na play an instrument Ina ungeza ujuziwa kwa music? Kwangu na ndele na sema Una chaza instrumentunga piwe Instrumenti ini na penda kuchezasana kwa nzini sa uti hangwa Wao that's creative That's very creative Which is extremely good Ya So then kuna guitar Neza play piya keyboard Ya So kucheza instrumenti na ungeza ujuziwa mziki Yamsani Neza sema See visually kwamsani Uki jitam mzani Na ujuziwa kwa play instrumenti So Alright Kwa neza sema kuna tofauti ya Mzani Na manamziki Tofauti ni gani Manamziki ni nani Manamziki So kini tamzani Kwangu mi wana Laki ni manamziki Utu mani na neza imba Neza play Neza arrange music Ako na ujuzi amziki Manamziki Ya So nani wa kwengi kenya Wanamziki ama wasani Iotu Nyeskini Umiajua Tungiko tu na tajamaji na that would be Another thing But I'm just saying generally Osani ni wangi Piawa namziki ni wangi Kwa ni mi sasaunaka piga piga kwa na iyo Nde yo, osani ni wangi Piawa namziki ni wangi So Songeni umeto kaku perform Niki mapenzi mapenzi kidogo kidogo Eni toa Siria Moyo Siria Moyo Was it inspired by any particular events Ama what is the source of inspiration Behind all your songs Zinginezi na ka Deepin Gospel What's your category Amatua cegu kategorai Eni gumu Kuna iyo Siria Mapenzi Which is very It's very deep in love And the new one eni wewe That I have seen in Achezo Hadiko Maaru So izo ni Mapenzi The others They have a gospel like feel Albao mi hangu ya kwanza Eni toa ni poke So Time nili amok fanya album Ni kasi maalbao mi hangu ya kwanza Lazimani pe mungu sifa kwanza So lakini Na fanya music So niza jeanspanya na wewe Niza jeanspanya na hei So jeanspanya na hei Liting light skin Please, jeanspanya I'll leave to go to Kisemi So somebody Exactly Na jeanspanya kulingana Na vituzi na nizungu Kasi saizingini marafukizangu Vitu na onna Vitu na ishi Vitu kama ishi You not signed but You have a manager Right? Saisi Manager hangu ni mimi When do manager wako? But I think I knew But before you had a manager Ya So kukuana manager Is it essential to a musician? Ina dependu na jwa Sosa shida eni tukona kama wasani Nisa hei kenya Ono na kama wewe Ukiwa na contacti siju ya Ma presenters, siju citizen na kila maali Onaji ita manager Na Na vituzi na wewa industry sa hei Na manager Nitu fauti sana na kukuna Contacti ya media So wale wengi wako na nini Contacti ya media Awa feku ito managers Una pata nina kilu wasani wengi Awezi na ita Jita manager hangu na nimi na kulipiafia Onaji Onaji Una faku jita manager Hungu tu na tengeneza deals Na leta deal Tu na tengeneza pesa Siya tii manager Ukpiga masimu za media Na akuna event Akuna Kuna mtu ame chame mamal Shots fired How many artists have you worked with in the industry? Nimi wakuna wasani wengi sana In what ways kufanya colabos na lao Mi Ya kwanza mini songwriter Nimi wakuna wasani wengi Nani wu miandi kia song wengi atuna jo Nimiandi kia wengi Laki nitu upse maopa I mean this guy ataki kusema Kwa nini utaki kutwambia? We want the juicy details Apa na, mi na penda Na penda spendi kutembelia kwa jinaza wengi Si kutembelia kwa jinaza Na penda kutembelia kwa jinaa angu If you wrote a song for someone you should have that credit Nasi wibaya kusema I wrote this song Nani kwa YouTube basi Kulawiki na wanasi kwa wana lao Wata jo habi pios pa wambia And then you know sometimes when people are checking wa nangaliya music sometimes they ignore that bit So wa nangaliya music and then ono terim kapa lakwa comments kwa nangaliya So meza wambia maybe what kind of songs wangaliya Nimiandi kwa songs wengi Nimi wakuna papa denis Nimi wakina bani rafkiya kwa songs ake zote nimi miandi kwa You've written songs for bani zote Good music Nimi wakuna Sayi na wakuna kolo Kolo bazo kizo Nimi wakuna vivian Nimi wakuna So how bagui industry yo tekilam tu So ya ya Okini ita na kudya Kuna anything between you and Vikmas Lodola Vikmas ni Good friend Anakuskuma sana to get He's pushing you towards the right direction Nihirafkiya wangu sana Kwanza na na Namusalim So what is happening Nihirafkiya wangu tu tulpatana Adan kukakuna yo chemistry Tuna skizana Vision in mojya Ya So I have a question for you Ulianda shulo kafa niye sabu So Batili suma kitambo I doesn't but Una jwe sabu ya sayi Swa li anyenda uliza Sayi sabu ya kitambo So some months have 31 days Others have Some months have 31 days Others have 30 days But how many have 28 days How many months have 28 days One month Are you sure Think about your answer One more time Uliza teba Some months have 30 days Others have 31 days How many have 28 days Udresi tunadruwa answer You won So that's your last answer Which month is that That's your last answer All months have 28 days Because In Africa 28 You get up to 28 And then you get up to 30 Smart question It's very easy Anyway That was on a light note So talk to us about your new song Fanya nasi umbo I want to dance In weddings How inspiring is that I want to sing Last year December I want to sing And then I want to sing I want to feel I want to sing It is I want to sing So you are tapia Inspiration behind I want to come to you Fanya nasi umbo I want to dance Ono justo hi So I want to sing For my song I want to sing It is a song First I want to sing Fanya nasi umbo And then I want to sing In a l33 Kou sumari I have a song No songs Last yearقة maa ni ni ato ga inongela gani ahhh hii twa chagula chagula mo nama it's that kind of a song ni ni na tsuwa yun wedeos so niko nakona neza fa nyon song piya hii yu diirektio and it's actually good very very good what wa mai receiver jio yu song? how do you think it's doing out there? neza se ma Kenya Kenya hii yi jachezwa maali apaita kwa place yako nzena chezwa but kungu sa hii na chezwa sana Niko na marafiki wa yu ropua me pokea vizuri wa kongo eni wana ishi wa keni wa oko eni No pokele wa eni je vizuri So sija sema pa eja pokele vizuri, jibene aija cheswa Badu Then we are changing that today We are changing that today right in a few minutes It's a nice song So I want to give you a few minutes You perform the song So that what you understand in itu na sema And when we say we have good music We actually have good music Good music So now Yeah the stage is yours Yeah play na guitar We want to feel that mellow Yes It's a yeah Yeah Zaku ko wa mume mue Upe na unke wa ke Kwa shida nara utani enzi mile Nipera Ikupera Unipe Iwe wa kompezi Mu fu pa yami fu pa yango Mo ja kati yambago zango Mu fu pa yami fu pa yango Mu ja kati yambago zango Bebe ni we Jibuna maon bi angu Bebe ni Hadiki fukitu tengani she Bebe ni we Jibuna maon bi angu We are back to the whispers now Hey I feel like I am inspired But I am not inspired Doksha na shakitengi Aksha na shakitengi I need someone to come now And propose I have a song ya kuchesa ni kichem Bia palli down the aisle Boy Sheld Come through Nani wami amara mimi majima wa kujim Anyway And that was red pen Amazing amazing music Ten Ten Ten out of ten Mimi personally Mimi atas diri eleven Thank you We have good music And we need to keep playing that music In much rotation as possible Yes So I want to read up


Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network, I'm Kili Akina, President of the Grassroot Institute. Well, you know, ocean cruising here in Hawaii should be a natural part of our tourism industry. But did you know that a federal law has held it back for more than a century? That's according to a new policy report from the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. The report examines the 1886 Passenger Vessel Services Act and its effect on the economy. Now, in many ways, it's similar to the Jones Act, which deals with cargo. But the PVSA deals with people and cruise ships. To talk about that today, I have one of our research associates at the Grassroot Institute, Jonathan Hilton, who put together the recent report published by the Institute. Jonathan, welcome to the program, Aloha. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Well, you've done great work. And I thank you for that.  And I wanted to feature you today. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do at the Grassroot Institute and why you are involved? Sure. So, starting off with why I'm involved, in high school, I was debating about transportation policy. And we ran across the Jones Act. It's one of the big issues in transportation policy. And even after high school, I kept researching it. And so I got here to college. And eventually, I got in contact with you guys about writing some articles and stuff about maritime policy. And I've been here about two years, been working on Jones Act related projects. Now the PVSA project. You know, there's so much that you could be involved in. Why do you choose to be involved in an Institute that commits itself to individual liberty and free markets and limited accountable government? Absolutely. Well, I think especially for the Jones Act issue, it's a matter of what's promoting good public policy. We've got a law that obviously hasn't worked. It's been on the books for so long. I think it's good for the economy at large if we update that long. And I think that applies to a lot of other policies you guys are working on as well. Well, we're going to talk about the Passenger Vessel Services Act, which is similar in some ways to the Jones Act, but slightly different. But first, I want us to bring our audience along. And so could you just very succinctly describe the Jones Act, which we've been talking about and which we've discussed quite a bit on this program? Sure. So the Jones Act was passed in 19th money 100 years ago, and it has four basic elements. The first is that any ship moving cargo between two US ports has to be built in the United States. The second is that it has to be crewed by US citizens. The third is that has to be flagged in the United States. And the fourth is that has to be owned by a US company. And the Passenger Vessel Services Act is very similar. Well, Jonathan, let me ask you, what has the impact of these rules on our ships that are used in the Jones Act trade been on Hawaii? Absolutely. The Jones Act, according to one of our recent studies, costs Hawaii millions of dollars annually and prevents the creation of thousands of jobs. So it has an economic impact on the whole economy and obviously then an impact on the lifestyles of our people, the cost of living. Well, now you said the Passenger Vessel Services Act was similar to the Jones Act. Let me ask you a general question. What kind of transportation does the PVSA apply to? Sure. So as the name implies, it relates to transportation of people. So we're talking cruise ships, ferries, anything that's moving people from point A to point B across the water is pretty much covered by the PVSA. Okay. Now that's in contrast to the Jones Act, which covers the movement of cargo between two US ports. Absolutely. Now, I have to tell you this, I have rarely read anything in the general media about the Passenger Vessel Services Act, which we will call PVSA. So what motivated you to dive into this and research it and get published with us? Right. So I think it was summer of 2019, we were looking into some maritime related issues. And the PVSA popped up on our radar. There were there've been a couple of op-eds published the years. But as you've said, there's not really been a lot of analysis of this long. We found a couple of op-eds and then one study done in 2009 by some people at the University of Hawaii. We decided to run with it from there, do some additional research and we found it was actually a little bit more than we thought. And we decided to turn it into a policy report discussing the laws history and its impact. All right. Well, let's dive into the PVSA itself. First of all, highlight how it differs from the Jones Act and give us a little bit of the history of the PVSA here in Hawaii. Sure. So I'll start with how it differs from the Jones Act. So in some ways, the PVSA is less restricted from the Jones Act, but at the same time, it's a lot more confusing. So there's really two differences between the PVSA and the Jones Act. The first is a closed loop cruise. What a closed loop cruise is, is a cruise ship will, for example, leave Los Angeles, visit Hawaii, and then return to Los Angeles. But to return to Los Angeles in order to not violate the PVSA, it has to stop at a four and four. This would be a port like Vancouver or in Sonata, Mexico. So it's a, and it's called a closed loop cruise because it begins and ends at the same US port. So that's the first big difference. The second is a distant port exemption. So I'll give you an example of some cruises that have happened in Hawaii before. A couple of years ago, there were some cruise lines that were commonly offered cruises in Hawaii that would allow their visitors to visit the Hawaiian islands, but they would have to make a stop at Fanning Island. Fanning Island is an island that's about 1000 miles south of Hawaii and isn't US territory. So the cruise lines could escape the PVSA by visiting this distant port. And you see this today with cruises that will leave from the West Coast, stop by Hawaii, and then continue on to Australia or Asia. Under the Jones Act, it's a lot stricter and ships have to make, would have to actually unload their cargo at a foreign port before returning to a US port. They couldn't move cargo, for example, in the same way that the PVSA moves passengers. I want you to recap what you've said about Fanning Island. You're talking about a closed loop in terms of travel from one coast to the back again, to that coast. And yet a one way of getting around it and being able to use a ship, given the PVSA rules is to stop at this international site, the PV, the Fanning Island. Yes, that's, that's kind of the distant port exemption. You visit, you visit somewhere that's not in the, in not in North America, and you can escape this PVSA restriction. So lots of cruise ships would just take the 1000 miles, mile sail south, and then they would return to visit on the wine islands to escape the PVSA restrictions. What are the implications of having to get around the PVSA by stopping at Fanning Island? How does it impact the ships and the passengers? Sure. So for the passengers, it might not be too much of a burden on them, but it really hurts Hawaii's state economy, because if the ship is spending one day, two day, three days sailing to Fanning Island and then back, that's money that the tourists could have been spending in Hawaii's shops and towns and cities, the same way if you're cruising to the West Coast as well. If a cruise ship decides to take the extra couple of days to visit somewhere like Incinada, Mexico, both Hawaii and the West Coast are losing out on revenue. It's then spent in other countries. Stopping at such a port has become impractical at times. And so Hawaii has been exempted from it on occasion, particularly in World War One and recently as well. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Sure. So there's a couple of fun exemptions we found for the PVSA. In World War One, there were a lack of ships and ships are being conscripted into the US Army. So some legislators suggested that Hawaii be exempted from the Passenger Vessel Services Act in order for goods and people to actually get to Hawaii from the mainland. And there was an exception that ran from 1917 to 1920 that allowed foreign cruise ships to move people in between the mainland and Hawaii. Well, recently, because of the coronavirus, we've seen a virtual shutdown of cruise ships coming to Hawaii and leaving. But prior to that, the market was quite active. Do you want to describe what it was like in terms of cruise liner market here in the Hawaii market in the Hawaii waters? Absolutely. So there were obviously the West Coast to Hawaii cruises that would then have to make the stops at Mexico or Canada in order to qualify for the PVSA. There was also the cruises that were going between Asia and the United States, and they would sometimes stop off at Hawaii. And then one of the other big ones was the pride of America, the ship, the only ship that can actually cruise within Hawaii waters without having to visit a foreign port on its itinerary. Well, tell me a little bit more about that, the pride of America. I mean, that seems extraordinary that there's one and only one ship that can be exempt from the PVSA rules. How is it that that's the case? And do you see the opportunity for other ships to have that exemption as well? Right. So the pride of America was one of the big issues that we that was on our radar when we first started researching this. I'll give you a little bit of the history. So in the early 2000s, there was a couple of companies that decided that they wanted to try to invest in the Hawaii market and build PVSA compliant cruise ships that can service Hawaii routes. They tried to and they had a shipyard in the southern USA contract to build a ship to service the Hawaii market. The shipyard couldn't actually complete the ship and the ship had to be transported over to Europe to be finished. And so once the ship was finished in Europe, it didn't qualify as a US built ship. Therefore, it wasn't going to be able to offer cruises in Hawaii waters. So some centers from Hawaii and elsewhere got together and they were able to sponsor an exemption for the company, which was Norwegian cruise line to act to allow the ship to operate in white waters. And so the Norwegian cruise line not only got this ship, but they got two others, the pride of Hawaii and the pride of Aloha, to also operate in white waters. And this was maybe 2005 when all of these ships were actually active in Hawaii only itineraries. Well, how many US owned cruise line companies are there and how many of them serve Hawaii? Sure. So today there's actually a surprisingly large number of cruise of US cruise line companies. But the difference here is that most of these cruise line companies aren't don't have PBSA qualified cruise ships. Think Disney, for example, that's a US company, but Disney doesn't operate any ships on routes that would have to fall under the PBSA. So in general, apart from the pride of America company and the company that operates them, there are only a few US cruise line companies that have PBSA ships. Most of these operate on routes in the Mississippi river or maybe in the Pacific Northwest. Some of them visit Alaska. These are all smaller vessels and smaller cruise lines. What we think of when we think of going on a cruise, for example, in the Caribbean. So you're saying that the PBSA limits the extent to which US companies can operate cruises in Hawaii or even up and down along the West Coast or from to and from other domestic ports in the mainland like Seattle or Alaska. Is that right? Absolutely. One of them. One of the big deterrents is that building a cruise ship in the United States would just be extremely expensive. There hasn't been a ocean going cruise ship like what we think of normally moving cruise ships. There hasn't been one of those constructed since the 1960s in the United States. As I said, there was the one in the early 2000s that they tried to build. But despite federal subsidies, they weren't actually able to complete it. So that's simply a barrier to entry to any company that would want to enter the US cruise. Well, let's go back to what you were saying about Disney. I understand that they hope to start cruises in Hawaii waters as early as 2022. Once the coronavirus restrictions are fully lifted, but they would be launching from Vancouver, Canada and stop in Honolulu before returning. Is that because they use foreign built ships? Yes, that's correct. They know Disney actually expressed interest in the late 1990s in building a PBSA ship, but there weren't any US shipyards that wanted to build it. They simply didn't have the know-how because they hadn't built such a ship, as I said, since the 50s or the 60s. So, yes, Disney using foreign ships is going to have to depart from Canada or Mexico if it's going to offer cruises in Hawaii waters. Well, Disney certainly hopes to be able to return to Hawaii and make it one of its key stops. In terms of the economic impact of the PBSA, what have we been able to tell overall? Sure. So, the economic impact has been varied in some instances, but I'll bring up the example of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico got an exemption from the PBSA in the late in the mid-80s and it saw its cruise tourism industry boom. Several million dollars in revenue, massive amounts of visitors from the US mainland who don't have to have a PBSA ship to cruise to Hawaii. They're able to use all of the foreign ships that are available, excuse me, Puerto Rico, to cruise to Puerto Rico and they're able to visit it in there without having to take detours to foreign locations. Well, we've received a question from a viewer right now as we're broadcasting live streaming on the internet and it has to do with how we would fix the PBSA. I'm going to ask you that question a little later on after we take break, but thank you, Jonathan, for informing us about the PBSA. My guest, Jonathan Helton, a research associate at the Grassroot Institute, will be right back. I'm Kili Iakina on Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together. Don't go away. Welcome back to Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. Grassroot Institute has just published a research report on the Passenger Vessel Services Act and I hope you'll get ahold of that. It's on our website www.grassrootinstitute.org that's Grassroot Singular Institute.org. It's a little bit complex, but Jonathan Helton, one of our research associates with the report together, is explaining it and we've been talking about some of the interesting history of it. In particular, Jonathan, I want to go to something that is related to the Disney ships, but a separate matter. Tell me about a little bit of the history with Pride of Hawaii and how it actually became the last ocean-going U.S. cruise ship. There's a little bit in there that dives into politics, I understand. There was a role played by our U.S. Senator Daniel Inouye and he was even opposed at the time to the Jones Act in the early 60s and late 60s and early 70s. Tell us a little bit about that. Sure, so let's first look at Senator Inouye's opposition to the Jones Act. Shortly after Hawaii's statehood, Alaska was also opposed to the Jones Act as well. So congressional representatives from Alaska and Hawaii got together to try to sponsor some resolutions and bills to reform the Jones Act. These ultimately fell through, didn't attract enough interest in Congress to get them reformed, but fast forward a few years to 2003 and Senator Inouye is attempting to exempt some of these ships, specifically the ships that they failed to construct in the U.S. shipyard. He's trying to pass an exemption for this ship to be allowed to operate in Hawaii waters. And so he successfully works this exemption through Congress and Congress actually grants the company, Norwegian Cruise Line, the ability to have three ships in the Hawaii trade. That's very fascinating because people believe that the Jones Act is an issue that is divided on partisan lines. But it's very interesting that Senator Inouye and other Democrats were actually opposed to the Jones Act and found ways to exempt Hawaii ships from it that ultimately impacted the PVSA. Absolutely. And even today, the two main Jones Act reform proponents, we have a representative case from Hawaii who is a Democrat and then Senator Lee from Utah who is a Republican. This is definitely a bipartisan issue. And we actually were able to contact Senator Case regarding the PVSA. He said he hasn't looked into it much, but that he would definitely be interested in looking at the PVSA, isn't he? Well, it's definitely a bipartisan issue. Now, the PVSA has not only affected ocean cruising out in the big ocean, Atlantic and Pacific, but also the river cruises that take place in the United States. Tell us a bit about that. Sure. So one of the big stories when it comes to the PVSA and river cruising is Viking cruise lines. And maybe I think it was 2015. Viking expressed interest in offering cruises in the United States and on the Mississippi River. One of the challenges that Viking ran into is having to buy ships from U.S. shipyards to operate on these routes. Because normally, with Vikings routes in Europe, it's going to buy ships from European shipyards. It couldn't do that. It would have to buy significantly more expensive ships from U.S. shipyards. And as of today, Viking has actually made some contracts with U.S. shipyards to go ahead and offer cruises in the United States. I believe that's starting in 2022. But for a couple of years, Viking wasn't sure if it was going to be able to because of the capital costs that would have to pay up front to get the ships that it could have gotten from Europe for maybe three times less. I understand that in doing your research, you reached out to scholars such as Dr. James Mack at the University of Hawaii. Back in 2009, he did some research and ultimately concluded that we should abolish the PVSA. What did you learn from Professor Mack? Right. So Professor Mack's study was one of the, I think, probably the most detailed analysis of the PVSA that's been done so far. And he looked at what happened when Norwegian cruise line removed two of its ships from the Hawaii trade. Because remember, there were three. Now we only have the one in the United States. But when he introduced those three ships to the Hawaii market, prices for these ships fell. And the number of tourists visiting Hawaii on these routes went up significantly. But citing various reasons, Norwegian cruise lines decided to remove those two other ships from the market. And the result was then increased cost and now we only have the final US flag ocean coming cruise ship, the Pride of America operating Hawaii. What do you think would be the major benefit to Hawaii from reforming the PVSA? Sure. So I think the biggest benefit is that if we were either repealed the PVSA entirely or reformed it so that US companies could buy foreign-built cruise ships, we would see a lot more companies either offering routes that were entirely in Hawaii that would be under a repeal scenario. Or if it were reformed, we would be able to see US companies. There are several, as we've talked about, that might have, might decide to buy a PVSA-qualified ship if they were able to get it abroad. And then they could offer routes directly from Hawaii to the West Coast. They would be able to cut out those confusing stops at Vancouver or in Sonata or Fanning Island. So there would be more time for the tourists to spend in Hawaii, which is going to bring more revenue to state carers. So we could experience significant economic gain not necessarily from repealing the PVSA but reforming it in terms particularly of where we get our ships reduced and allowing our companies to buy them from our allies overseas. Definitely. And interestingly, that's actually something that members of the River Cruise Industry have suggested. Unlike the Jones Act, where a lot of the industry members want to block foreign-built ships, there are members of the US River Cruise Industry, such as American Steamboat Company, that have in the past expressed concern about the cost of buying a ship in the United States buying a cruise ship from a US shipyard. It's simply so expensive that they'd rather risk the additional competition and have the ability to buy their cruise ships from somewhere like Europe and have them in the trade simply because it's less expensive. And I think we'd see the same thing happen in Hawaii. We have companies that were able to come in and pay a much lower cost of upfront capital to be able to enter the market. So politically, where does most of the support for the PBSA come from? Who's really arguing that it should remain in place? Sure. So there are proponents of the PBSA that are also proponents of the Jones Act. For example, the Transportation Institute is one organization that supports both laws on the premise that they support maritime security. There are several proponents who are, profess similar ideas, but there's only one U.S. ocean-going cruise ship left. There's not really much of an industry to protect from competition at this point. But some of the other supporters of the PBSA are actually supporters you'd not expect. For example, Canada really benefits from the PBSA because cruises to Alaska from Seattle have to stop off it somewhere like Vancouver before they can continue on for their routes to fall under the PBSA. So Canada actually benefits from the PBSA. Some have suggested that in the past Canada has actually lobbied to leave the law in place so that their cruise hubs get additional revenue as opposed to that revenue going to a U.S. So reform of the PBSA would be in the interest of American companies and consumers? Definitely. Now during the past several years have there been attempts to repeal the PBSA? Sure. So in the early 2000s when there was a bunch of interest in reforming the Jones Act there was also interest in reforming the PBSA. And now there were several bills some of them would have repealed it entirely one of them that I found interesting would have allowed companies to buy foreign cruise ships with the promise that they would then after being in the market for a while also by U.S. built cruise ships. So it would kind of be a middle of the road approach where it allowed companies to have a lower cost of capital now but then they'd have to promote the U.S. shipbuilding industry by buying one late. Unfortunately, none of those efforts really got anywhere. Although in 2017 I believe it was there was some interest from one of the federal agencies in looking at how to stimulate the passenger vessel market the cruise market in the United States and that face some backlash. Ultimately there haven't been anything hasn't been anything recent that would have repealed the PBSA. So where does that issue stand in Congress right now? Both in terms of where it is amongst our congressional delegates from Hawaii and beyond in Congress in general. Sure. So we reached out to several of the members of the congressional delegation from Hawaii. The only one who expressed any interest in maybe looking at the law revisiting it to perhaps reformer was Representative Case. Representative Schatz expressed his support for the PBSA. The other ones didn't get back with us. That's really the main interest in repealing or reforming the PBSA. It's kind of a bipartisan issue like the Jones Act would be and I know Senator Case or Representative Case and Senator Lee have several bills in Congress that reform the Jones Act. So far neither of them have proposed bills that would amend the PBSA. What do you think motivates members of Congress who are advocates for the PBSA? Sure. So frankly I don't think there are a ton of supporters. If there are supporters these people support the PBSA for the same reason they support the Jones Act. The premise of a healthy maritime industry that would boost national security. But frankly I don't think that many of the members of Congress really know what the PBSA is. They don't know that there's only one blue water cruise ship left in America and that cruise ship wasn't even built in America. They don't know that we haven't built a cruise ship in the United States in over 60 years. They don't know that the riverboat companies, the cruise companies that operate on the Mississippi they don't know that they would actually like to see reforms to the PBSA. So that's one of the benefits of this report is we're getting the word out about the state of the cruise industry in the United States and how it's right for reform. You know that's very interesting because one might think that at the root of the advocacy to retain the PBSA you would have a whole bunch of special interests operating on Congress persons. But what I'm detecting from what you say is that that may not be the case. It may be that this just flies under the radar because nobody knows about it and nobody will know about it until they read your report. Right. I think that's I think that's pretty much accurate. There's not been a much organized support for the PBSA absent from it being lumped in with the Jones Act as U.S. cabbage law. Well short of a total repeal which may not be practical for any ancient federal law by ancient I mean about century old. What do you think is the most feasible change we can propose to the PBSA that might have a chance in Congress. Sure. So I think that the best idea right now is to advance a bill requirement reform similar to what we've argued should be done for the Jones Act right. Allow U.S. companies to buy foreign built ships. The same as they do for foreign built airplanes or foreign built trucks. These would be significantly less expensive especially in the case of the cruise liner market since we just don't have the know how to build them in the United States anymore. Well thank you Jonathan you've done a great job on the report and it is available at the grass root institute website grassrootinstitute.org I appreciate your work. I want to ask you to to give a closing comment. Tell us what you would say to a Congress person if you're trying to help them understand the importance of changing the PBSA. Sure so I would point out the tremendous cruise potential that the especially Hawaii has and Alaska has and I would say hey did you know that there's only one U.S. cruise ship left and they probably wouldn't know that and so I'm not going to point them to the fact that it's just so expensive to buy a ship here that no one wants to and so if we want to bring revenue to these port side states and port side cities it would be really helpful if we reform the market and so that people could buy more and build ships for example. Well Jonathan thank you very much for your work again and thank you for being on the program today. I appreciate it. Aloha to you. Thank you for having me on. Well I hope you all enjoyed your time with Jonathan Helton research associate at the grass root institute and if you are interested in researching with the grass root institute let us know we're constantly looking for bright minds who care deeply about principles of liberty economic freedom and maintaining a limited accountable government. Those are important values to us at the grass root institute and I hope you found this program helpful. Until next time I'm Kili Hakina wishing you much aloha.


We did it everyone, we ended console wars forever. At least that seems to be claims VMA by certain outlets as it turns out that Nintendo Switch might potentially be the best if not best fastest selling system of all time aka Nintendo Switch has essentially won the console war of all time already and yet it's still not even the best selling system of all time. We all know 157 million PlayStation 2's have been sold. We also know 154 million DS's have been sold. So how can a system that hasn't even crossed a hundred million already be the best selling system of all time and thus ending the console war dilemma? Well one console wars are obviously not over because that's all personal preference and leads to arguing over different brands. This is just like Apple versus Android or Samsung versus Google or I don't know whatever arguments you want to put out there you know you got macOS versus Windows versus Linux you have obviously Nintendo versus Sony versus Microsoft it never ends right like console wars aren't gonna go anywhere so I find the headlines a little bit hyperbolic but we do have some legitimate information here that we're gonna talk about here this information was posted by digitaljournal.com and it was actually done by a research group who found that Nintendo Switch is actually the fastest selling system to date or at least the most units per year have sold to date again we're gonna talk about why this data is a bit skewed and why data like this can get skewed but here's actually the chart I'm actually looking at it right here on my phone it says that Nintendo Switch has sold 90.54 million units within four years that puts it at a sales rate of 22.64 million units per year aka the fastest selling system of all time the most units per year of all time and number two is the DS at 154.9 million with nine years in production that had 17.21 million then you get to PlayStation 4 5 2 3 etc you can see the number of years that things were in production like we sold 101 million units but it was also in production for 11 years obviously the amount of units per year is much lower the thing about this data though that I find interesting and this is just starting to make waves everywhere I've seen this on Nintendo life I've seen this on my Nintendo I've seen this even on places like Bloomberg is that data can be very funky because it's noting 90 million in sales for Nintendo Switch in four years yet in about three and a half months we will have just concluded the fifth year of Nintendo Switch now yes in the next three and a half months we're about to get sales data that's likely gonna push Nintendo Switch past a hundred million units close to a hundred and five maybe a hundred and eight million units and in that case it still might not knock the data down too much instead of it being 22 million maybe it's more like 19 million per year but still the data is obviously not 100% accurate since it's using the most updated sales figures from the current fiscal year which are taking place in the fifth year of Nintendo Switch not the fourth so that data is already skewed and then beyond all of that obviously a lot of systems sell a lot of units in the first four or five years on the market and then typically sold out so let's say Nintendo Switch is in production for 10 years does anyone realistically think it's gonna continue to sell 22 million units every year now you could just say this is an interesting data point to look at but the headlines being made out of it to me are absolutely insane like yes the Nintendo Switch is selling incredible and for its first four to five years on the market being able to top 22 million units in sales per year is incredible and it cannot be understated it is the best Nintendo's ever done the DS wasn't doing this for the first four or five years not even though we was doing 22 million per year for four plus years it actually kind of blew its load in the first three so yeah it's obvious that Nintendo Switch is potentially Nintendo's best-selling system of all time I mean give it another three years this might top the DS in fact who knows it might even top the PlayStation 2 and become the best-selling console of all time but it's not going to do that in five years or six years as they're trying to suggest it's going to take probably an additional four years from today and another three holiday seasons before this would even come close and this presumes Nintendo can keep it selling while we keep talking about switch pro 4k switch other things Nintendo might need to do along the way but yeah it would require the switch as is to keep selling and by the way maybe it will maybe Nintendo will prove the doubters wrong but I still find it a bit hard to fathom a world where this is considered the best-selling system of all time even though the data is suggesting it's off to a super hot start things tend to cool off in the second half of the console life but we'll see obviously with the pandemic and everything things have not cooled off yet and it's very well the switch could continue to sell 20 plus million units per year for the next two to three years there is a reality where that does exist it's just whether or not it's going to happen we're trying to predict future with today's current numbers and I'm not so sure that we can successfully do that it's like PlayStation 5 continues to sell out but it's not always going to sell out eventually they're going to make more units and demand calls for and then we'll see kind of where the sales equal out for PlayStation 5 as well same with the Xbox series which is already in the top 10 so yeah I find this to be absolutely fascinating it's nice to look at this data just be kind of careful about the headlines including the headline in this video because obviously the headline in this video is based on the headlines from all the news outlets out there and yeah it's a little misleading so yeah I guess let's just stick to the narrative and go Nintendo switch is a new console wars yeah by the way folks be sure to like and subscribe to this video just have a giveaway going on right now for three copies of Pokemon Legends Arceus be sure to drop down into the comment section or the pin comment to enter thank you guys so much for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next video