Hello, good afternoon. Thank you for coming when there are many things Very interesting things to do in Barcelona than staying here listening at me Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much I have to say that I feel a little bit like an outsider here because I'm a type designer I'm not a programmer although sometimes I have to program some Small scripts for producing fonts, but I'm mainly a type designer, so and Yeah, hope that you will Find some of the information I will deliver this afternoon interesting for you. I beg you pardon if some of you feel that my My my my conversation of my lecture will be at the various low level, but I will try to To explain different things different thoughts about about type design and typography So I Understand that is a challenge to be here to deliver a lecture in in Drupal because you are a very Expertized audience and I'm just from another field. Maybe that's something that I will I will say will be very amazing for me But maybe totally boring for you. So I beg you pardon for that too. Okay. First of all, I will introduce myself That's me the small one. I'm Andrea values. I Am a type designer. I love trekking Traveling riding on my mountain bike. I also like drawing letters, of course and this this is my city Welcome to Barcelona the place. This is the place where where I live and also the place where I work I have my office more or less in the Gracia area in in the neighborhood of Gracia and Type Republic is the name of my studio and also the the the place where I Distribute my type phases. I have a type small very very a small type foundry and type Republic is the name This is the place where I work. I spend most of my my day is here and I work both on commission projects on type design and also I Try to have enough time to do my own personal project So I have maybe this is not good because you get not so much money, but yeah We're doing your own projects You can do whatever you want and you get also the the the chance to research do some research and Do the sort of work that someone you never will be commission commission. I also teach part-time and I teach typography and type design in here in Barcelona and also give some workshops on type design and typography in different places. This is a in Chile for example and Well, I just started Working as a graphic designer not as a type designer because I studied graphic design and that was some years ago quite a long time ago, I think and Yeah, I designed a lot of flyers and posters for festivals like primavera sound that was one of the first editions of primavera sound and Also for nightclubs in Barcelona. I was very fond of music and I just started as a graphic designer designing this sort of stuff But they soon became more and more interested in typography and type design so when The these all things appear it I was really amazed and I just started to Explore the possibilities that these all max could do with type design I have to say that what I got was really horrible, but in the meantime I was also learning that was the early 90s and I decided to get more into it. So I Just started designing type phases So I became a type designer and you may ask what a type designer is Well, basically a type designer is someone that design type phases But also someone that can help graphic designers to to do type work or the or the library with type projects So, yeah, a type designer is really inert Some someone that can be can take care of these sort of things when they see for example this s upside down and say What's this? This sort of the mistakes make type designers get very angry Also type designers is someone that takes care of these things when when he sees a new logo redesign this has been largely discussed along these weeks and It's about typography the look of it of a logo type of a brand of a mark trademark. It's a problem of type sometimes and We can see that designer fraud Helen decided to redesign the design of Google and Here you have a Short explanation of what he did he basically Improved the shapes of letters. That's something really basic But you can see the difference how for example the the the logo that you can see of Google now is really Stretch and narrow and you can see G le too much stick together and Yeah, I think it's a good improvement even your even though if you look at the at the shape of letter g uppercase G Looks more thicker than the rest of the of the letters. Sorry The other ways so the upper the lower case looks bigger looks thicker than the letter g So type designers are professionals that care about type and can help designers and also be companies to do the proper Things when they are using type and yes, I've designed someone that is able to publish this sort of pictures on Facebook now Gets reading books on historical type Okay, I will show you some some of my work. This is not a portfolio talk So I'm not going to to talk more about my work But I just like to introduce my my work briefly to you in order that you can see what the type designer is doing At least what the type designer in Barcelona is is doing For example, this is one of my first I phases in for reading text for literary text books This is the result of research on Spanish typography in the 18th century and is intended for for mainly for reading from literary books It's not the same designing type phases for literary books So for for novels for poetry Whatever done if you design a type phase for newspaper or for a magazine. It's something completely different So the uses of type depend on the context that they are going to be used This is another type phase and it's called Carmen and is is also part of our research of 19th century French Typography French and Spanish it's a kind of French and Spanish connection because that was the time of Napoleon when he was in Spain and there was a lot of influence of the French typography So I find history can be a very good starting point Not as a revival not as a way to digitize things But that's a way to to look how things were in the old times and how these old things can be useful today when we Can do contemporary design But they wanted to get some sort of Elegance and extravaganza with this type phase. So this is Carmen, but at the same time Victoria secret the the lingerie Company got in touch with me because they wanted to use Carmen for for the communication of the of the products and they They wanted to design they wanted me to they commissioned me to design a family Improving the type phase in a more sensual way. So what I did was Design different styles that were for Victoria secret for their their communication Products that tried to be the surface tried to be a little bit more refined or elegant more sexy I include a lot of different Legatures this legato with G. I for example see I or the double G for example So it tries to be a a specific type phase for them Barna is more intended for text technical text if you think in Company information data signal systems all these sorts of things more technical also you can see this type phase here in the conventional Yeah, the here displays the International Conventional Center this type phase was also made by me some years ago and This is another type phase. I've made for University of La Rioja This is a website. Sorry. No, this is a type phase that was intended to work for a screen That was for belgacom belgacom is the is the telephone company in Belgium So I designed the type phase that could be used not only for print but also for the website and all the the devices that they are They have also I've been lately interested in Multilingualism and in multicultural Typography, so this is a landalus is a type phase that combines Arabic and Latin together so they can be harmonized in the same page or in the same website, whatever and Is inspired in the Nash style the Nash Arabic style and Yes, and in order to could to be able to use both the scripts in the same in the same place Also in another stage. I have been working on Andalusian. Andalusian is the the McRuby a style That was developed in a landalus in Spain in the Middle Ages. So this is also part of a research I think that graphic designers and type design could give Should give answers to the different needs of our global world And I think that typography can can provide the tools in order that In order to connect cultures and and make cultures more visible Well, you can see more of my work in in the website apraparic.com and Now let's start about the topic of today you know I started with a question what's your type and I will now give a specific solutions, but Yeah, I will I Don't want to give a specific a recipe or something to say this has to be used this way or that way I will try to explain the property how to use the property in a more general and general way At least I will try to get some some thoughts and considerations about the use of type The first consideration about about type phases are the amount of type phases that we have we there are a lot of type phases now in the world may be more in Latin than in other scripts like the Vanagari or Yerakana or Chinese or Arabic for example, but we have lots of Latin type phases that we can select that you can choose and The question that first arises is Do we really need so many type phases? There are there are designers that think that with 10 or maybe 20 type phases. It's enough to solve any sort of communication problem But if you go a little bit into it, we can we can think about The choose we we all use choose and there are different kinds of choose It depends on what we like the type of choose we we prefer and also the use of the the choose So if we are invited to the wedding probably we will go to buy a pair of nice new shoes But if we want to buy to play football, we will buy specific shoes that will apply for this sort of sport If we go hiking into the mountains, we will get a good pair of boots so it all will depend on On the context of use of the choose so each pair of shoes are made and designed specifically for a specific purpose and according to an Specific use so it also happens with typography when we design type phases what we think is about a specific specific context so there are choose that has been designed to be used daily every day and As a standard way of using it we also have alphabetical for example and Instead there are choose that are designed specifically for Very a special occasion for example when we want to play in a specific sort of a sport It all depends on the context and context of use It's very important when looking at for a type phase when we have to choose a type phase for a specific Project that can can fit specifically for a specific sort of communication so it also happens with with wine a Smart group gourmets are able to choose the specific wine that will fit for specific dishes and Let's go to the to the shoes for example again, and if we look at these shoes and We we want to choose a type phase that can fit for for these shoes for example Imagine that we we want to choose a type phase or a name for these shoes and we choose Bodoni for example Bodoni is very elegant type phase, but Yeah, it has a very strong contrast and these contrasts make this type phase more Refine elegant a little bit sophisticated and the boots are not sophisticated. So maybe this is not that I face that we should use This is a Chanel roundhound and is based on copper pick copper plate calligraphy and Yes, Nell is also very elegant, but here It doesn't really apply it doesn't really fit with this pair of boots So we have the same problem. Also, maybe that's deep this type phase has a very feminine mood Yes, this is impact and impact is ball is a ball sans serif and is more intended for Headlines, so it's a more display type phase and maybe here this type phase could fit better than the the others The other two perhaps it's different if we use uppercase Or we we use lower case with lower case. We have More variety of shapes with uppercase. We have a very strong meaning So it's more aggressive. It's more strong. It's a stronger than this case. So it depends on what we want to communicate Upper case or lower case will be better. It depends If we if we select a different pair of shoes for dancing for example We can see that this sort of impact this sort of type phase doesn't fit doesn't work In this case, maybe it's better if we use a Bodoni that gives this Poethic feeling or even better the snail calligraphic that Could give some more dynamism in this part of shoes So each type phase provides a unique voice or a character and personality that can be applied to a Specific project type phases Has different values and I think this is important when we have to To look for a type phase Sorry, my English is getting a little bit sticky So when we have to look for a type phase We have to take into account that every type phase has different dimensions or different values The stepping value that has to do with the shapes of letters The emotional value that has to do with the soul the things that that can be perceived through the shapes of letters and The functional part that is really important because typography is meant to be read So we have to read type phases so they have to be in a certain way functional We have to use them so they have to be Functional in other also to have a good user experience But designers sometimes they don't consider this they just go to the menu of the the laptop or the computer and just select whatever they like and They don't care much about the the strength of typography when communication when communicating so When we talk about the personality in the character we refer basically to aesthetic values the shape of letters provides aesthetics values that we can't relate with certain attributes and That can be applied to a specific sort of communication For example, this is Carmen fiesta is one of the display versions of the Carmen family I show you before and Yeah, this typeface has a very strong personality you can you cannot use it everywhere So it has a very specific use It's very difficult to use this sort of typefaces that has that they have this very a strong personality But for example, I will give you a sample of use of this typeface that I think that is really well used So it's it has been select for for a cover of a book about the Damascus People in the Lucha Libre in in Mexico. So I think in this case this typeface is a good selection it communicates really Very well what they they the designer want to communicate. I think it's a good sample of use So each typeface has a very unique character and personality So when we look at the vetica is a vetica, you know, it's a very standard typeface. It's everywhere. It's overuse and and sometimes Yeah, I bet it can work, but not always Elvetica works properly And this is jelly. Shelly is a dynamic typeface is based on calligraphy and It's also elegant and it provides a very young young fresh charming and it's a positive feeling also Futura is based on geometry. It was designed in the in the late 20s and it was one of the the myths of the bad bow house and But futura has this elegant and modern look. It provides a rational Feeling it's not a warm typeface. It's a little bit cool, but it can work when we want to communicate this sort of Simplicity rational way of the library in communication and Carmen is that I face that as you I told you before it's based on this French Spanish connection at the beginning of the 19th century and It involves some sort of romanticism and it's also a little bit sensual and and also elegant Baskerville, for example, is a transitional typeface and it was designed in England by John Baskerville in the late 18th century And it has a very traditional look but it's not well, maybe we could say it's an all-style not really traditional and It's very good for reading for reading books. It's one of the most used typefaces for novels or for text for reading text and this is the personality of Barna Barna Estensil that is a display typeface, but Yeah, it has this this sort of charm and urban feeling so each typeface provides a unique voice and a unique way to say things and I could say that type in a certain way. It's the voice of the message. So when I speak to you I can be happy I can be Frightened or it can be sad and This sort of emotion that I feel myself can be the library to you You can you can perceive this because of my tone of voice when we are writing with typography. How can we be emotional? How can we? Convey this emotional part of the language. So when we write it's not the same as when I am speaking. So we have to Rely on the shapes of letters We have to rely on the design of these letters because type at the end represents language and Language is the way we deliver ideas and knowledge and whatever. So Yeah, so there are certain limitations if we compare the spoken language with the Written language when we use typography. Sometimes we have to express our emotions Doing this when we write an email to a friend in order that the friend don't get Angry or So on so we could express different feelings when we are using typefaces and we don't need necessary to do these sort of things so Type is the voice of the message and I will try to put you another example Maybe that the sentence I love you is the most used sentence in the cinema for ages and From my point of my point of view in typography. There are as many ways To say I love you as typographies or maybe there are as many typographies as The ways you can say I love you it depends on the person it depends on the context in this case It depends on the film so We can say I love you in many many different ways, so and it depends always in in the sort of Situation that we are delivering So maybe we can say I love you in futura using futura and Be serious rational modern simple honest humble and Very minimal. It's a very simple way to say I love you But we can live we can love in impact using impact and be passionate excited Exaggerated grand eloquent sensationalist. It's like saying I love you don't go stay with me And we can also say I love you using Elizabeth Elizabeth is a very polite very smart Romantic sensitive typeface So this is another way to say the same thing and also we can say I love you using fractur and Yeah, fractur gives this very a strong dramatic feeling look at the at the shape of letters the counters of the letters are really really really narrow and Yeah, they are like Wanted to to go away to escape from this From these letters, so maybe that it's better run away when someone takes to I love you with this typeface But also we can love with Carmen and be quiet the warm be Tender maybe and of course we can love with albettica and be stable secure Securing our love decisions doing always the right thing I think that making love in albettica is no risk at all and really boring and yeah, even we can Love using comic sense. Why not maybe that nobody is going to take us seriously But it can fit very well for said certain situations Because at the end type is the voice of the message is the way to say I love you It's there are different ways to say you can say it like lying to your partner Or maybe yet you and saying it very truly and trustfully and so on. Do you know what I mean? Because at the end the the logo When we think about logotypes a Logotype is really an image. It's just a shape It's a combination of letters and it's an image No, we say it is say that an image is worth a southern of words But a world is also an image so in brand design of the selection of type of a typeface It's very important because it's not the same. We are not talking about the same The same company. We are not talking about the same shop or whatever it Abitat it is Because every typeface gives a difference. Maybe it's a small difference, but sometimes can be a huge difference Okay, but one of the most important things one of the most important values in typography and Type design when we are designing typefaces is the functional values What this has to do with the purpose of the typeface it has to do with the context is it for reading and Is if it if this typeface is going to be for reading is for newspapers is for books Is for signal systems in the road or in a museum? It's totally different context so we have to take into account which is the the use of the typeface in order to To get the best choice and get at the same time the better user experience If it go for a screen, we have to take into account resolution We have to take into account how many devices this typeface is going to be seen Maybe that we need a large family. Maybe we need only one weight in a phone Do we need other scripts? Maybe like Arabic because we we have to To the library communication to communicate something that has to be in different languages and also in different scripts So there are a lot of things to take into account when selecting when choosing a typeface Well type as you know, it's represent sound. It's just that represent the representation of language and When you write in type at the in the old times it was used to do with this paramarital manufactured letters, so it was like a different system of modular system of combining letters and Yeah, because at the end as I said before type represents language and From a functional perspective type conveys ideas concepts messages and throughout This combination of text so we communicate meaning throughout text So it has to be readable and it has to be legible So that's a very important part of the use of typography. It has to be Functionally has to to be read this is a definition of typography from Robin Brinkhurst that says that the typography exists to honor content so that's a The main goal of type design and typography to deliver the message to to communicate and This is another interesting definition when Helen Laptone says that typography is what language looks like so when we see Hello We look at the typefaces and we and we get some sort of information Not only that that the data that the information of the name, but also the emotional values the Yeah, the attributes of the company whatever can be the library through typography so at the end type has to be read and If you if you have to The class if you can make a very basic very basic classification of text according to the user experience about the use of type we could establish this sort of of Difference there are typefaces that are good for text and there are typefaces that are good at At big sizes, that's the display typefaces So at big sizes we can perceive you can see the shapes of letters the the value of this this emotional value and this is what Provides the personality the character of a typeface while in the other side when we look for legibility. We have to look at a phases that has these functional functional values but when talking about functionality we have to take into account that We not only design typefaces for print we have to Most of the times these typefaces has to be used for the web. So You have to decide to make a lot of decisions when designing typefaces But also you have to make a lot of decisions when composing when using these typefaces according to the difference To the different format that the reader will have So that's the same typeface will apply for all these typeface for all these screens or all these devices Yeah, maybe that the same typeface can apply but not the composition of the text We have to this to the make different designs or make a design that can be adapt to these Devices so for example when we we're talking about readability About how many characters should be Composed in a line in order to make a text More or less easy to read we have to take into account more or less the same Conventions that we have in print the same conventions in print more or less applied to a screen not always but indeed in when we are composing text and we look for the The ease of reading the Yeah, the way to read easily we have to take into account into account Which are the conventions of using type in print in paper? For example here we can see that there are two columns But maybe the space between the lines the leading on the left column is not so good for a good Reading Also in this case if you have lines that are too large The reader will miss the the way along the line. So it's not also easy to read I'm not Roder said that a line that has between 50 and 60 Characters per line. It's easy to read. It's okay But there are other people that say that maybe it's a little bit more So there isn't not the recipe But there is like a convention a way of reading that makes that people read the way they read and they read easily And we designers have to take into account these conventions in order to make things easy Of course, we can risk and we can make things Going farther, but if we want people read in a certain way, we have to take into account this There are Different tools maybe that you know them that you can test you can in this type tester For example, you can select different type phases and make different Sort of Variations so you can look how they look for your website for example so it's important to get a good relationship between the The length of the line, which is the column and the number of Of letters and also the size of letters. So in this Here for example, we can see that About the leading the variation of leading makes a big difference about reading Also the space the spacing among characters makes a good difference. So of course We cannot do these sort of things. So this is quite a jigger rating But I I want to say that there are certain conventions that has to be taken into account in order to make a text a good Good experience for when reading And this for example is a digital book and We can see that the lines are too large. So it's not so easy to read and Here we have this is an a book in an iPad and it's really a bad example of using text there has a lot of white spaces among words and This makes the column not Not really a good a good image of it. It's just like something that is dissolving We can see a lot of White spaces that are too much in this case But here we have a good sample for example of Using text in a in a website of here for example Or in this case, so we have to get a good balance between the size of the letter the line the the the number of letters in a line and The space between the lines So there are sometimes that because of the functional things typefaces are designed specifically for for different needs For different purposes as can be for example typefaces that has been designed to fit the requirements of the children's reading books This is Sassoon primary Sassoon Some typefaces has been designed specifically to solve technological limitations This is for example in print the case of Bell Centennial. It was a typeface that was designed for the For the telephone agendas If we look at these typefaces a little bit closing a little bit closer, we can see that they have strange holes when the The strokes meet And that's because This is a typeface that is not intended for display for big sizes This is that face to be used at six point what maybe eight nine point but not more than that and This is because this this is these holes are called ink in traps and they are made in order to avoid the amount of ink that Accumulate where the strokes join together So when we see this typeface print at the various small size Nothing happens or at least the The shape of letters are more or less, okay So it's important that when we go smaller in size when we use a typeface We have to take into account the counter. So we need to Select typefaces that have open counters For example, it's important that the the letter a for example or letter c the The strokes don't meet together don't join together too much. Otherwise at the small sizes Visually they look like an o instead of a c for example. So that's something that has also it's Also has to do when we apply for low resolution screen. So when we we have to When it has to do with pixels At low resolutions, we don't have pixels enough for these small sizes. So we have to Take also into account these things that were taken into account when designing typefaces for print for paper So there are some connections between these so When we think about good typefaces for extreme we had to take into account that we need a small contrast Outlines and in this case, well, let's go by the large each case So we need that the the xk is large enough. So at the small sizes, it can even look good Otherwise, it disappears on it's not so legible We also need to have open counters That's the case of the Bell Centennial for print So the counters forums can be as much as open as possible in order that The the whole shape of the letter is well defined And of course we need typefaces that has no contrast or at least very a small con contrast If we are going to use typefaces in on a screen in a very big size There is no problem. We have pixels enough for that or if we work in a very Good resolution devices. There's not much problem But if we look at the small sizes, we have to take into account these things So because well, if you have a typeface like Bodoni, for example, or DDo The problem is that at the small sizes the the the contrast of the letters disappear and it breaks So it makes no no sense to use these sort of typefaces at these small sizes We have also to take into account that typefaces are designed as Bectorial shapes as outlines that are made out of vectors So but in a in a screen we see these outlines with pixels So it's a different way of Looking things And Yeah, that's sometimes we need hinting we need some Instructions to make that this process of rasterizing from the outline from the vectorial shape to something that will be Will be seen as a on a screen in order to manage this this problem of Getting a good representation or a good image of a letter from the outline to The to translate it into into pixels in a grid of pixels So this is for example how it works with hinting hinting are just some instructions that makes That says to the to the rasterizer It doesn't matter which rasterizer, but it says how according to the outlines The shape of the letter has to be drawn on on screen according to the pixels But there is a problem at this moment There you know that there is no standard on how to deal with fonts on a screen That means that At a certain way we don't have a total control on how the fonts that we design or the fonts that you select will be Rasterized that will be seen on on a screen So because each operating system contains a text rendering tool text render an engine and Mac Mac for example has a different render engine that Windows for example and even browsers has different ways to to deal with these things. So Yeah, text rendering depends on on all these these are different ways of how Mac or Windows deliver with the render of fonts on on a screen cortex It's used on Mac and direct right and GDI on Windows and Yeah, but sometimes we can see that there is no standard There is no perfect way to render fonts on a screen, but as much as monitors are improved This problem will be more or less solved But that's something that we have to take into account type render on the web is there Is the result of many factors and we have to deal with this and we have to test and we have to look at how it looks in This the different devices Yeah, you know that retina this place has improved the rendering very largely and Makes the hinting process that was really boring for type designers be something that can be left apart So it's not so important, but even though it's It's good to take into account How these things happen Yeah, when we look typefaces for signal systems for example We have to take into account the the typeface also because we see them from the distance and We have to to to take into account There's more or less the same things that when we you when we see on a screen We need typefaces that has open counters We have typefaces that has not meant much contrast because we are going to see them from the distance and And yet is a very important functional problem. This is typeface that was designed especially especially for for the the roads in the UK and These are the main features When designing these sort of typefaces Regular a stroke so not many contrasts having a very large each day open counters The spacing in this case. It's quite tight because sometimes we need to put words that are quite long We can see it in the in this case. They this is the Dean typeface in in Berlin. I'm sorry in Germany Different design and and of course we need to save a space This is a another typeface that was designed specifically for for signal systems and Yes at the end to conclude we we should assume that although we select a nice typeface The result can be useless if we don't take into account Things such as the context that we are where we are using this typeface or What these values that I was talking to you before of the functional the emotional and the static part of the of a letter so It's important to be conscious about the communication power of typography in any piece of Graphic work or in any piece of communication. It's important That designers typographers and type designers work together in order to make things more easy. So At the end we are here to to give some help. So feel free to to ask me if I Can help you and Yeah, but we should not only look at type design and typography as something that is just utilitarian Utilitarian tool for communication. I think that the more over Type as a representation of language is a powerful tool that Contributes to expand knowledge and culture and in our our global world typography can be a Very good way to visualize other scripts and languages and therefore other cultures and a good tool also to bridge sort of to build bridges and Be more close to other communities to other cultures and make a World a little bit better and more understandable So we can see typography also as a tool to convey social and human values and I think that's all. Thank you so much If there is any question any comment or something Yeah There are I know that there are books that are print for for these lexical people and for a special Sort of audiences that Need some sort of help You mean print the books. I just defy you say Most of books are just if I yeah, that's a way of saving space when you just defy You save a lot of space So that's a problem maybe of economy if we think about from a publisher or editorial point of view and It also when you justify you can get a more Compact image of the page so you can get more control on about the spaces among the world You can more or less get a more Visual Maybe it has to be it. Maybe it has to do with convention so if we think about the the Biblia from Gutenberg and All the the manuscripts that were in the codex and the old books The convention was justifying So it has also to do with with that but justifying text you can get a better Valence of the color of the page if you have ratio right or ratio left you have a lot of holes and There is some wider space that is not used so Sometimes it's better if you justify sometimes it's better if you made ratio right or ratio left And in the web, I think there is some problems when justifying it's not so easy to get So much control on how the wide spaces between characters or between words at this moment There are some limitations on how to use type on the web It's going to be derived. I'm sure but and There are a lot of possibilities at this moment to work on with type in on the way But I show some good samples where you can see caps cap drop caps and Small caps use on the web But When justifying when delivering with the spacing and even the current there are not all the the browsers support this some of the coding of the CC CCS the styles I'm not I'm sorry because I'm not as specialized in in web design So I cannot talk much about it, but I know that there are some limitations and When using type on the web for the web? Oh Yeah Yeah, yeah I was wondering when I walk around every day. I see the use of comic-sans quite often actually more often I actually would would want to but I was wondering when people Print things themselves at their homes or science putting up science everywhere They seem to like the use of comic-sans quite often And I was wondering if there's any explanation for it I think it has to do the functional part because it's very readable, but it lacks aesthetics and maybe emotion it's used in the wrong way Actually, it was probably meant to be used in strips Or child books, but why is it so like people seem to like it? And he more explanation about that No, I have No, I think that any typeface has its place in the world. So even comic-sans and yeah, sometimes it's well used Sometimes it's not well used so Even the design of comic-sans sometimes wonders why and but No, I remember I read some an article that was saying that people choose comic-sans because it's more readable more legible than other other typefaces, but I don't know. I don't think there is a scientific Study or survive about it. Okay. Oh, yeah. No, let's for example We use Latin Latin the Latin alphabet and in the Latin alphabet is used for many languages So what we really need is that if we are going to not only use English for example But we use Czech or Polish for example We need a phone that they face that has all the data critics that can be used That will be necessary for this language. So in this case We have to look for typefaces that has all the data critics that can be used for this specific language if we think about you know in our global world and we have to To combine text that has Latin a Latin language like can be Spanish French English whatever and also maybe Arabic and we have Farsi and Arabic or any language that uses the Arabic script for composing text What we have to do and this is something really new it has happened from the last maybe five six years There is the need to harmonize both the scripts in terms of proportions in terms of the color of text on on paper or on screen So it's important that then you have to look for typefaces or type families that they combine Latin maybe Greek Cyrillic Arabic in a very harmonious way in a balanced way the problem now is that when you have to to the to design for example a book of poetry and you have maybe Cyrillic and and And German or English and they have to go together sometimes Well Cyrillic, maybe it's more easy to to harmonize but for instance if you have Arabic or Chinese and English and you have the original text in the other script and the translation in English You need to get good typefaces that have a good balance between both of the scripts because normally you have one phone that has the Latin language and Sorry the Latin script and another phone that comes from another place another designer that has a more maybe other design And they don't really fit each other. So at this moment type designers are very aware of of this sort of multilingual thing and the multicultural thing and There are some designers that are doing this this Exercise to think about one script But also think how what would happen if the person the personality the character of this typeface That has been designed in a specific script in Latin script can be applied can be also Apply to another script. I don't know if I have answered your question but in this case you have to look for typefaces that combine different scripts in a very harmonious way Sorry No, there is There is nothing You have there are Google phones for example they have Not oh, I think that has a lot of has been designed in different scripts But I think that it has been designed very fast and maybe I don't know if If it's all it's okay for all the the scripts. I don't know. I haven't test all all the scripts But there is no engine nothing that can Switch from one thing to the other and in design terms So you have to go to phones that are open type phones and are multi-script when you have a multi-script phone It means that you have different scripts in the same within the same phone How many time do you mean a scripts or typefaces? Yeah Yeah, if you mix in a page too many typefaces It means there are a lot of inputs visual inputs that gets in your eye and gets a little bit Distarving to for reading so I don't know any rule. I think that common sense Could say that if you use more than two three Families will be a little bit disturbing. Maybe that if you maybe in a magazine in a magazine sometimes you have different phones in use so you can get a more appealing sound of page and Maybe one good display typeface for typing for headlines Maybe another one for the text a more functional one and maybe for captions or maybe for Very small text for the credits of the photographer or whatever you can have a sunset for example Whatever so maybe three families will be Fair enough for for a typeface for example in monocle Monocle is a very I think it's a very good web design has a very good way design and they have three families in use Okay, thank you. Thank you very much for your patience and


Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the Western Digital Offices in Milpitas, California at a really interesting event. It's put on by the Autotech Council Innovation and Motion. It's all about mapping and navigation. So you might think the mapping wars are over, but we're just hearing in the keynote presentation, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, a big part of which is driven by autonomous vehicles and all the things that are happening there, but it goes well beyond that. So we're excited to be here and talk to some of the principles about what's going on in this space. So our next guest is Mirko Kershbaum. He's the CEO and founder of Pegaza. So first off, Mirko, welcome. Thank you. So what is Pegaza for people that aren't familiar? So Pegaza is a consulting company and I started this company about two and a half years ago because I realized that a lot of companies want to come into Silicon Valley, but they don't know what to do here. They don't know who to meet with, who to partner with, and they don't have experience in this whole ecosystem, and I'm helping them because I've been here for almost 10 years and I know the industry really well. So do you focus on a particular type of company that wants to get here, particular type of a vertical? Who are your clients? It's mainly the transportation automotive vertical. That's my background, that's where I have expertise. And we've seen all the car companies are here. They've got offices all over the place of NO101 and Palo Alto. What other types of automobile industry players are trying to either set up a presence or at least a connection with Silicon Valley? So initially it was just the car makers, then you saw the big tier ones, the automotive suppliers moving in for companies like Bosch and Continental. Now you're even seeing tier two companies, tier three companies coming in, companies that want to get into the automotive space. So it's an entire ecosystem that's moving in with the car makers. Right, it's kind of interesting to note because there was a similar wave 20 years ago, 30 years ago, into LA for design and we saw a lot of the car companies set up their design centers down in Los Angeles. So when they're coming here, are they looking for specific technology? Are they looking for engineering? Are they looking for just kind of the innovation juju that we have going on here? What are their objectives when they come here? I think it's a combination of all the things that you just mentioned. So one is just everybody is here. If you want to have meetings with five, six companies, you can do it in one day. We're all within half an hour, 40 minutes distance. You have car makers, you have chip makers, you have telecom companies, you have IT experts. It's all in one spot. And I don't think that exists anywhere else, maybe in Tel Aviv to a certain degree. And then it's also just the education that's here, the mindset of people. You have very smart people that have worked in different jobs. It's just a perfect setup in every way. Right, and the thing you just touched on too, which I don't think a lot of people think through all the components that are involved in a self-driving car. You think of sensors and maybe a little bit of mapping and does it stop or not when it's supposed to? But there's a ton of different technologies. I saw some video, a professor was giving a kickoff on his autonomous vehicle class and he had this laundry list of all the different types of technologies and things you gotta think about that all come together as this thing is rolling down the road. Yeah, what you're seeing is I mean in the old days, the car was a separate system. It was pretty much owned by the car makers, so fewer T1s, fewer T2s, that was it. But now with connectivity and data and cybersecurity, I mean there's connections to almost any other vertical and that's what makes it so exciting. You have machine vision companies coming in, we're looking into biometric technologies, monitoring what you're doing, what your health is. We have camera sensor companies that you never even had heard of. We're now looking into sensing smell because you don't have people in the car anymore, you need ears outside of the car because people will not be in the car. So those are all new technologies that are making their way into the car and that's just really exciting and new. Pretty good times for you. So mapping and navigation, what brings you to this event today? So mapping and navigation is gonna be very critical for autonomous driving and a key enabler is obviously either having machine vision systems that help you capture the accurate information all the time because the car will need to know is your construction, are there potholes, are there any obstacles, so it might be crowdsourced and then the other thing that's really important is there's gonna be a lot of data being generated.  So it's gonna be a big, big market battle around this data and who will have an edge on it, right? So it's really interesting. Yeah, the whole data, not only is there a lot of data that needs to be processed, but you bring up a whole another kettle of fish which is who owns the data, who has access to the data, who can build, evaluate algorithms based on that data. There's an interesting thing I saw once on some of the Google cars is there's not only the data of what that Google car does, but the environmental data as it passes through the environment for things like where the bicycle riders ride on the edge of the street and all these factors that this collecting data far more than just its performance as a self-driving car. So who does own that data? I mean, it's traffic signs. When's the street cleaning coming because then you can park? Is there an open parking spot that you could put on an app and then guide people into it? It's potholes, it's construction. It's other things that are critical if you have autonomous cars and just in general, even today now, I mean, cities wanna know where the open parking spots is there any damage to the road? Are there any other things in the way? So it's huge having access to the data. Yeah, it's interesting because you can really crowdsource it with this mobile sensing machine that can pull in all types of data to feedback. I hadn't even thought about it how they get the data for the self-parking apps. You'd get it from other cars that happen to be driving down the street. That's great. All right, super. So you've been in the business for a while as you see kind of this crazy acceleration of compute and storage and networking. How long do you think this is gonna take before we see a lot more of these vehicles on the road? I mean, you see them today. Right, I live in Palo Alto. So we see the Waymo cars all the time. We used to them already.  I mean, there's a long list of approved companies now on interesting names. But I think to, and you'll see it in phases, it's gonna be very limited and also it's gonna be very weather-dependent. Here's perfect conditions. It's nice and dry and warm. For Montana and other places where it's a little bit tougher on the weather, it's gonna take longer time because there's some problems there. So I think it's gonna come in waves. So here will be a launch now. But to see it fully deployed, not just in the US, I'm also thinking about other countries like Brazil and India with totally different problems to solve. It's gonna be much more longer time. So there we're talking decades. But then again, you also have to think about can you set aside certain areas or lanes for those cars? Because you'll have an interim phase. The interim phase, you will have non-autonomous vehicles, semi-autonomous vehicle, and fully-autonomous vehicles. So how are all those cars working with each other with drivers, with a driver's license, maybe drivers without a driver's license? Because they can only ride in an autonomous vehicle. So how is it all gonna work together? That's gonna be a very interesting time. Once they're all autonomous, I think it's gonna be easy. But then it's just gonna be like in an airplane. You have an air traffic controller, somebody's managing all those cars, they talk to each other, there's vehicle to vehicle, communication, but having them all together, that's gonna be an interesting time. And again, that's before we, again, all these second-order impacts of parking structures that are no longer needed in the city because you have these things parked off-side. The watches. Car insurance when these things don't crash so much as we do when we're distracted by whatever. So pretty exciting times. All right, well, Mirko, I'll let you get back to the conference, a lot of stuff going on next door. And thanks for taking a few minutes to stop by. You're welcome. All right, he's Mirko. I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE from the AutoTech Council Innovation and Motion event. Thanks for watching.