Welcome to the session on labs and incubators for the rest of us. I'm really excited to be on this panel with my fellow panellists here. We have the director of New Inc in New York, Julia. We have Seb Chan who you probably just heard speak and he's going to talk some more because he loves to chat. So we're back with me and Tui who is actually heading up the new Mahooke lab here at Te Papa. So we're just going to have a bit of an introduction from each of them about their lab and what they've been doing and then we're going to move into sort of a conversation session and then we'll leave some time for questions at the end. So I'm going to actually hand over to Seb. Do you want me to do your slides? No, it's alright. Do you want to do your slides? Is it going to work? So I think I've got a video first, don't I? Yeah, let's see how this goes. So yeah, that's the museum part which is interesting because we're in the centre of Melbourne and in fact I guess I should rewind a bit and I guess Paula and I were talking initially about maybe I wouldn't just focus on this which is the museum I'm at now but also this sort of sense of labs also being things that don't actually exist like at Cooper Hewitt. So we might get to that bit later on in the discussion. So that's why I'm now big museum in the centre of Melbourne as I said in the previous talk, national museum of all of these things. So why would it set up a co-working space? This is why when our new CEO came in the mission slightly tweaked and the mission now is about building a connection with the sector we represent and draw materials from and work with as well as the public. So the public has sort of, there's the professional public which isn't researchers and scholars but actually makers and doers, filmmakers, game makers, those sorts of people. So this is ACMEX and Petrina too, who's our CEO. A bold and co-working space that sits alongside the staff of the Australian Centre for the Moving Image. When you join ACMEX, you're going to be part of a community from filmmakers to games developers to app developers to people working with virtual reality. It's about having a daily conversation with a group of industries whose work we celebrate at its end. We want to be part of the journey. We're going to run an industry events programme so that experts from right across these industries will talk about things that they've learnt, ways of working, opportunities and challenges. Most importantly, ACMEX is about making connections between ideas and industry and building community that really is going to support the work of the crowd of industries in Australia. So we've been open for about seven months now and most of our tenants are now on six months plus leases. We have two of the major universities in Melbourne also have desks there, which they're post-grads and some academics use. And what's interesting about our space is that it is not walled off from the rest of the museum staff. In moving to the new offices that we have that houses this space, there are only three staff with rooms. Everybody else is in the open to plan space. So the people with the offices, of course, the CEO, Katrina, the CFO and the HR manager. Everybody else works alongside the co-workers which is really about that conversation piece.  We have several VR companies based in there. We have a YouTube multi-channel network. Got Valliarm who brings in YouTube celebrities to use the meeting rooms and stuff every now and again. There's lots of stuff going on. We all share a big communal kitchen. It's that kind of thing. So it's actually about bringing the museum staff and makers and creators closer together. And I think that's perhaps the differentiator is that we are actually very physically co-located at the start. But that's probably enough for me, right? Yeah, we'll be in a long time. Okay, mine was going to be a little bit longer. So I'm Tori, I'm the General Manager of Mahookey to Puppets Innovation Hub. So in the next three or four minutes I just want to give you a quick overview of what Mahookey is. This is the movie trailer version. To get the full version you've got to sign up for the movie. So it all starts with, actually, Mahookey is an innovation program and what is innovation, it's about actually trying new things. But Mahookey is two core parts to it. There is the Accelerator Program, and I'm going to talk a little bit in detail about that, which is where Mahookey or to Puppet is working in partnerships with businesses. The second part, which is just as important is the Outreach Program, which is a series of other activities like the Accelerator Program to help bring innovation, ideas and perspectives of people into Te Papa. So we set up the very first Accelerator Program started in August with 10 teams. We set up, put out a list of 12 challenges out to the community and asked them to come up with ideas or solutions for those. So we went out to businesses and teams and what we'd asked them to do is actually we were interested in both experience and enterprise solutions. So solutions that are going to help us enrich the stories that we tell and also ideas that are going to help us run our businesses better. We're part of a growing movement, so a trend amongst museums and other culture institutions to partner with industry businesses, with artists or with entrepreneurs in order to fast-track innovation to strengthen what we do. And while there are lots of different types of innovation labs or whatnot around, Mahuki is a particular type, which is we're taking quite a commercial business approach. In terms of the basics, we will run one Programme a year. As I said, the first Programme kicked off in August and the teams are downstairs and they'll finish up in December. And during that time there, I guess that's a short duration co-working model. They're based onsite with Te Papa staff, not immediately adjacent like ACMI is your one, but they're still based onsite and get interacted with Te Papa staff. We provide funding to the teams of $20,000 in order for them to participate. That's really important because a number of teams just wouldn't be able to participate and then we'd get one certain type of demographic that could, and we want this to be as diverse as possible. We are taking equity in the businesses of 6%. So hopefully some of these businesses go on to achieve great things and we will have, we are invested in their success and that also could return some sort of reward back to Te Papa in the future. And as I said before, it's really important that we had a diversity of teams. So six of the 10 teams have a female co-founder and three of the teams are, CEOs are female. We have a Māori team. We have teams that we can work in. There's six different languages. Pigeon, Russian, French, Māori, Chinese. We have a Chinese international student team as well. I think that my slides are going all over the place. Sorry about that. So in terms of the teams that we took in, these are the areas that they're working in, analytics, wave finding, VR, gaming, learning, innovation. A quick shout out for you guys is that one of our teams dot dot is setting up a trial down in Story Place on level 2. Right now, if you would like to go down after this and experience their VR solution, you can have a go. And here they are. And I had two of the teams are in the room at the moment. Curio and Open Window. So the second part of the mohiki is the outreach. There's two parts to this. What is working with tertiary institutions, and the second part is working with the general start-up community. So we have, alongside setting up and running the first mohiki program, being really active at working with tertiary institutions, mainly in Wellington, but also throughout New Zealand. And this is really important and critical to us. It's been a lot of work. But the advantage of this is that we've been working with student teams also issuing out our challenges, also getting their fresh ideas and perspectives into the way innovation that the public could deploy. These are just some of the ones that we have already completed, and we have another six underway. And then the second part of that is just general outreach. So as I said, the hub will only run once a year. It runs in the second half of the year, but when the hub is not operating we have a venue space downstairs and we're already planning for smaller mini mohiki innovation programs. And the ones we have in the works at the moment, one is a short duration workshop with the Pacific Business Trust, working with Pacifica businesses to help tell richer stories and solutions around our Pacific collection. We're also looking at a partnership with the local VR and AR Association. By the numbers, so 37 entrepreneurs, 10 teams, 26 tertiary interns alongside the paid interns that we have on board. I won't read all of those out, but what they speak about is that the mohiki is impacting a much greater ecosystem than just the teams that come into the program and that's also really important. And this, some of you will know, is connected worlds at New York Call of Science, and I put through this up to demonstrate this. This is all about the ecosystem and growing, you know, exponentially out, the impact. So all of those people that mohiki program is also touching on are also helping to understand the sector's needs and challenges. They are getting actively involved and we're increasing their understanding. So why an innovation accelerator? Firstly, the first one is pretty obvious, but we want to innovate. We want to try new things and this is one of a number of models we could have employed, but for us it's been a really good model. It's a way of bringing in fresh external perspectives for actually what is a pretty reasonable investment to help us generate new ideas. Remain relevant in an increasingly digital world. So actually the speed of change is happening so quickly. It's really important that from the public's point of view that we were staying abreast of ideas and partnering with, through the accelerator program as a way that we can do this is to stay at the leading edge say that double, but you know what I'm saying, much more quicker. Much more quicker. Unleash a national asset. So one of the things also is taking a fresh look at Tupapa. We are New Zealand's National Museum and actually alongside all of the other things that we do, we also have the opportunity to contribute to our nation's prosperity. Just that small goal. So actually Tupapa has an international brand. We have fantastic international connections and pathways to market. So actually it's another way of looking at the museum to actually unleash those in support of our nations. Vibrant digital dimension to the renewal program as you know Tupapa is about to go through the most dramatic changes over that since its inception over the next five years every permanent exhibition will be switched out. And then this last bit is increasing our capability by increasing the capability and understanding of the people that we work with. That's it. Alright, spoiler alert. I'm giving a keynote after this. I'm very much the same things but I am here from New York. I run New Inc. the New Museum's incubator for art design and technology. We just started our third session and we're located in the building next door to the museum. We occupy 8,000 square feet there with about 60 desks and we have a community of about 100 creative practitioners. Some of them are individual artists. Some of them are studios working in say design or mobile and web development essentially doing client services style work. Some of them are startups developing digital or physical products and some of them are also nonprofits. We also have two anchor tenants Columbia University's Graduate School of Architecture Planning and Digital Preservation runs a program out of our space for post graduates where they select about 20 graduates of that program who are starting new businesses. The other anchor tenant is Rhizome which is the long standing affiliate of the museum. It's a digital arts organization that focuses on contemporary art made online but also digital preservation. This is kind of the ecosystem of spaces that existed and that we wanted to create something that filled the gaps in between them. Obviously as a museum we're kind of most familiar with artist residencies and how they serve to develop artists and their practice. We also saw co-working spaces proliferating around the city and tech incubators as well and it seemed like every industry had an incubator except for the arts so that was one gap that we saw happening. We were also I think very much inspired by University Media Labs places like MIT Media Lab NYU's ITP program that are working in a very interdisciplinary or as MIT likes to call it anti-disciplinary fashion bringing together different modes of practice under one roof and trying to foster collaboration between them. So we kind of drew inspiration from all of these different programs to try and create something new that would fill in this gap that we saw happening for creative practitioners who were working in ways that were more entrepreneurial than could be served by a typical artist residency but often too creative too small, not necessarily focused on rapid scale and acceleration that most tech incubators required because many of them do take equity and investment and so they're looking for businesses that can grow quite large so that they can recoup that return on investment and so we're in a way kind of more focused on small businesses and startups and I would argue that artists are also small businesses and you know, Seb talks a little bit about the financial climate as it relates to the arts in his fireside chat, many of you are probably familiar with it, we're definitely a much more private philanthropy focused country than government funding and this is not to make a case that one is better than the other but just so you have a sense, the national endowment for the arts, this is from 2012, was about half of what Kickstarter crowd funding contributed and I believe government funding is incredibly important and I wish there was more of it but the reality is that there isn't and so we end up kind of having this very sort of enterprising way of having to fill in the gaps and having to figure out how to get the resources that you need in order to make the work that you want to make and that you feel like should exist in the world and what that leads to is not only having to get creative about how you access funding but then also understanding the administrative side the logistical side the financial legal side of what it actually takes to produce the work once you've secured the funding because in the case of say Kickstarter projects maybe you've raised a couple of tens of thousands or even 100,000 if you're lucky but now you have a community of hundreds of backers who are constantly asking you where the project is that they've invested in and many Kickstarter projects actually end up failing so there was this whole kind of ecosystem that we saw evolving around us that we wanted to help address and contribute to the other thing that is really interesting in New York is New York graduates more art and design graduates than any other U.S. city it was surveyed in I think 2014 by the Center for an Urban Future 80% of them said they wanted to stay and build their careers and their businesses and their futures in New York but an overwhelming number of them did not have the business and entrepreneurial skills in order to do so and as I mentioned these skills are increasingly vital everywhere but especially vital in the states this is our space our community is with us for 12 months the program is 12 months so we take teams as large as four many of them are teams of two summer individuals they're kind of all across disciplines ranging from visual arts performance, music architecture, fashion product design they are there to the kind of develop their business skills essentially so we run a professional development program where we offer workshops and lunch lectures and classes that can help these creative practitioners understand how to build the initiatives that they want to build and this is just kind of a snapshot of some of our members we take 40 full-time and 40 part-time members every year and they have the option to renew for a second year so it's a much kind of a longer time frame than Mahuki and we also do not provide funding we charge monthly membership fees 600 a month for full-time 350 a month for part-time so in a way it's kind of similar to what ACMI is doing in a kind of co-working style model where people pay for desk space however since launching we've been fundraising to provide financial aid and scholarships to make it much more affordable and accessible to those who may not otherwise have the means thanks Julia so I run a very different lab in Sydney it's called the DX lab and it's positioned in the State Library of New South Wales I don't run a physical kind of space like what these guys are doing with the co-working space and the artist-run space so it's something that we are looking for in the future but at the moment we're a team that sits within the digital experience division of the State Library but we don't do any sort of business as usual digital products we have a digital channels team who are running the website and doing other things so what we're here to do for the library is we have boundaries around what a contemporary library can do and should be doing with its data we're really fortunate at the State Library that we have actually digitized about 10 million of our objects at the moment so we've got this rich kind of data set that we can be working with to kind of push some of those boundaries with the technologies to make these collections more accessible and sort of to inspire others to kind of use our data as well so we're sort of working in that digital humanities research more than a space that develops that kind of incubator program but having said that I still believe in bringing in people to benefit from the work that the lab has been fortunate enough to kind of be funded to do so we do fellowships we do scholarships, we do digital drop-in programs we partner with a lot of different people so I think it's really important for us to have that space within the lab so it's not just us within the library saying hey we can do this it's about bringing the people in with us to kind of look at things in a new way and kind of challenge some of the perceptions around collections and access because a lot of the ways you get to material is not kind of easy and we're sort of pushing some of those boundaries around the one-to-one relationship with search as well so that's we pointed out a fellowship this year it was $30,000 I think it was one of the first dedicated digital fellowships offered by GLAM and that's really important to us in the library we do a lot of research and fellowships but one when I got there I noticed that there wasn't sort of a dedicated digital kind of experimental fellowship so we were lucky enough to be supported by the foundation to do this and we've got a couple of creatives who have taken that up and they're doing a really incredible job with exposing some of the collections in new ways had two digital drop-ins in fact we had Chris McDowell New Zealand here come over and do a drop-in with us for about a week and we kind of rapidly prototyped a product called Weemala which is looking at Indigenous place names in Australia that's been quite successful for us and so we've gone on to now look at maybe doing version two of that and Loom is just an example of a big data-vis project that we've just pushed out this year looking at data from across the Sydney area but having three different lenses an experience of getting into the same data so that's all on our website under experiments let's just actually go leave it on that so now we're just going to kick off into a bit more sort of informal discussion I think you get a sense from all of us how different our labs are I want to pick up on something that actually you, Courtney and said we're talking about in terms of the relevance of the work that we're doing in labs and experimentation hubs co-working spaces in the creative cultural sector right now why are they important what is the reason that we have to do this work now and how do we make them sustainable I might start with you Julia on that if it's okay sure, why is it important I think from our perspective we really look at the creative ecosystem, the creative industries the creative economy and I think during your conversation the idea of the museum as public servant came up which is very familiar to us but I think it's kind of extending the role that the public servant can play in your local city and community and how we support the creative industries more broadly not just the artists who we show in our museum but what does the creative ecosystem of New York look like it is becoming an increasingly difficult place to live for artists it's prohibitively expensive and there isn't the wealth of support that you have here in Europe and so how can we play a role in that in terms of sustainability as I mentioned we do have a business model it was part of our mandate to be self-sustaining as a program so that it isn't a program that is exclusively reliant on patronage or grant support we do have a revenue stream via the membership fees and the fees for desk space to be able to what members might pay at another co-working space in Manhattan but with the added benefit of the programming, the mentorship support that we offer them right now because we've been fundraising to be able to subsidize members the revenue that we get from membership fees comprises maybe about 60 to 70% of our operating budget in the majority but then we have some foundation funding to be able to create some new staff positions and also to give scholarships and subsidies to those who can't afford it to pay I think for us ours is revenue neutral or revenue positive based on the tenants the tenancy agreements it's also allowed us to align and this is something I'd recommend is that alignment with a new source of funding for funding much as Julia said that sense of getting out of just being arts and culture or cultural tourism as your funding sources but to look at what you offer back to the creative cities push that's going on in larger cities and the innovation agendas particularly in Australia and New Zealand that open up schools of government support from places you might not have seen as well as from private sources too who may not have given to the arts but will give to things that they are more familiar with I would also say that for us it's been the universities being key and fine being in a city that has universities based in the CBD that ability to work with has removed some of the needs for us that we might have thought we might have had to have done which were to build fab labs or editing studios and those sorts of things which in our case would have been perhaps additional to the museum's own requirements and then they wouldn't have necessarily been used so by working with others who have the physical the specialist physical resources that your tenants might need is often a good way to go reduces your capital investment but ours I would say has been premised on an office relocation move which opened up 60 additional seats of space that we didn't need for our staff but we had to pay the rent on so by sub-leasing those in alignment with our mission we've been able to not only cover the rent but better deliver our new mission and all these other benefits that flow both directions to the tenants as well as to us as well as the community and I think it's that alignment of benefit that's critical in both our spaces is that it's about that shared value that is created by the artists and small businesses and the museum working together that exceeds what would have been done individually so you asked about speed and sustainability so first we're thinking about speed I mean one of the obviously it's called an accelerator which means we're all about speed and part of that is about the start-up philosophy of fast failing so the idea is actually or the philosophy is that to move quickly through ideas to test those ideas and those that are going to fly continue with them but those that aren't, fail it quickly so you can move on to the next idea and so part of the ethos of programs like us are also about embracing and celebrating fast fails there is successful so that speaks more to the program but in terms of the accelerator one of the outcomes of Mahuki has been that it has put a little bit of pressure on to Papa to speed up some of its activities one of which is the digitisation of so and I've been thinking about that and I've spoken to some Māori audiences and with you know there's quite a lot of clearances and considerations around the use of Māori taonga and whatnot but actually future generations of New Zealanders including Māori are going to want to be able to see their stories or participate in the different and emerging technology platforms that are coming through so and this is one of the things we've picked up from our trip to the US is that actually will we as museums be there to meet those technology platforms when they're ready to be able to tell the stories in the formats that a number of our different audiences are going to demand of us in the future so those are kind of a few reflections on the speed side. I'm not sure if I actually answered exactly what you wanted but anyway got those off my chest in terms of sustainability so for general business accelerators you generally ask for three years give us three years in order to prove out the success and the outcomes of this program and during that three years also to be working on a sustainability plan for the ongoing funding so none of these programs should be set up expecting to be funded forever they just won't be no matter how successful you are because at some stage something more shiny and bright will come up and it should so actually we're not planning for this to be around forever but we're planning to give this a damn good go right now part of the sustainability plans for Mahiki is that the space will be available for commercial hire when Mahiki is not running its program which will also help underwrite and we're looking at a number of other different revenue streams so just picking up on that point of success which we talked a bit about yesterday so what does success kind of look like for you in these spaces and how do you measure that and how do you like being so new I mean you're probably the oldest in a way because it's three years now coming up to three years how do you measure success for the work that you do yeah I mean you know of course there's the traditional sort of economic development metrics so how many jobs were created what is the economic impact of the businesses and the programs that are coming out of these spaces for us that's one aspect of it because not all of our members are interested in scalable projects looking at kind of industry excellence are the companies and the individuals coming out of new Inc being recognized by their peers are they winning awards are they getting recognition what kind of collaborative environment are we creating are we seeing these entities and individuals at New Inc working together forging relationships hiring one another what sort of impact are we having on creating a generative space and for us to I think because we are the most kind of broad program of these three in that we have both sole practitioners and startups that are you know seeking venture capital is having a dialogue between these typical polarities that are often very much siloed from one another and you don't often see an exchange in perspectives which can often be a critical exchange where artists are you know taking maybe an anti-capitalist stance and trying to problematize the venture capital route and that's I think something that's really valuable and intangible and kind of hard to measure but it's something that we're really interested in. You've kind of been involved in a number of different styles of labs do you want to talk a little bit about success across the different kind of sure I mean ACMEX our things are very similar to Juulia's in terms of success is reflected through the greater things that are made collaboratively over a longer period of time than maybe just their time with us but also that sort of alumni network I think that universities have really over the last decade or so have really figured out how to maximize those alumni relationships and that's the thing that I think co-working spaces and incubators in our sector need to really focus on that we want someone who's been through one of our spaces in 10 years time to say that's what changed their practice not to forget us and it's when they're acquired by MoMA that they're like oh you know I'm acquired by MoMA now so great it's not that it's that I'm acquired by MoMA but in new new new week so being able to do that alumni piece we actually just had a project that had their work acquired by MoMA so it happens but I think the other sort of labs is the more labs that were labs by name which was more akin to what Paula's got now and I think you know when I was at powerhouse we had we had a team that was commercially funded was like a web agency inside the museum that was making projects for government at Cooper Hewitt we called ourselves Cooper Hewitt Lab but that was really only a naming device and that naming device brought us a freedom externally which separated our brand from the broader museum brand and allowed our brand to push a different riskier view of the museum but then the museum brand incorporated which was intentional but also allowed the internal staff to see the work as happening in a safe space and so that that sort of naming of a lab even if it's not physical space or even if it's only your 20% time or 2% time as it is in our world it's that sort of naming that carves out a sort of a psychological fortress around your team permission to do things that they may not otherwise do and allows others in the museum to say that's okay I don't have to see that as impacting on our core brand or impacting on my other work that has to happen so it's that sort of safe space notion of carving out through naming which is something we do with our identities we do it with subcultures we should do this with our work lives as well. So what's your advice though to smaller organisations who don't have sort of even digital web teams, how would you suggest that they start working in that way said like just I mean I think it is about creating that naming, name a space first and that creates it, the naming is important I would name a theme that doesn't exist to make that thing a reality and humans are very good at doing that language is a very powerful tool that we often don't give enough credence to. The other piece is that I think that it's about trying to small to mediums you need to work the lab is probably their piece with the community that part of them that they work with and that the lab may actually be a psychological space that exists with that community and scattered across network of physical spaces in New Zealand that could be or in Australia it could be a series of sheds, we like sheds that sort of thing, that it could be that there are moments where the lab emerges but it is about creating that safe space through naming first So success for us is all of the things that those guys said but actually the first success for us is that we just wanted people to apply to the program and they did and we got 10 awesome teams, we want at least 8 of them to finish the program and that's looking, that's going to happen and then we're looking at other more tangible results from the first program, we want deployment into PAPA, so we've got at least 5 of the teams looking at having active trials onto PAPA or displays on the floor including So Curio with Emily, the VR that I hope you'll go down and have a test of after this even point of sale and merchandise in the retail store to accompany the bugs exhibition, so those are really tangible outcomes, long-term we want these businesses to really rocket and actually ultimate success from my point of view is that they'll give us back some money and then there's all the other great things that go around that We have an intervention from the floor You've got a question I'm just wondering for there's only so many kind of incubators that can exist in any kind of market, so to speak I mean here in Wellington we've got a bunch of them, I'm sure there's heaps in New York well, maybe a few more What advice would you have to other organizations who don't have an incubator who perhaps have got something to offer or want to get involved again, there's no point necessarily and it's all setting up these incubators so what are the ways which I guess a broader network across an environment can kind of connect into some of the things that you're doing We have some hot tits prepared I tell you So that's a great question it's probably true for all of us is that these initiatives that we set up were contributing to the community they weren't competing with other programs that were already there they were filling a gap, filling a need and I think that's really important that's point number two The other thing that's true for both Seb and I and is it true for you as well too for the real estate piece that you guys had or did you develop that specifically? The museum had a building that we weren't using we purchased it in 2008 because it became available it came with some existing tenants and then one of the floors opened up and so it was something that we had available to us and we were thinking creatively about how we could utilize that space without necessarily turning it into additional exhibition space we were already doing artist residencies in that building so we could have expanded that but this was a way to launch a new type of program that was contributing something different to the community and to the ecosystem The community value I think is the most important aspect so making sure that what you are offering is really benefitting the whole in a unique way and doing something that isn't being done elsewhere Strategic partnerships is also something that Seb talked about quite a bit as I mentioned we work with Columbia University we also are developing different kinds of strategic partnerships with other cultural institutions non-profit spaces education institutions for instance we're working with a the Tribeca Film Festival their interactive program they often feed projects into our space because they grant them money and then those projects go off and are developed somewhere independently whereas at New Inc. they could be part of a community they could have that infrastructure and business training and support and it kind of makes Tribeca's investment more secure in a way because they're developing within an ecosystem where they have some sort of safety net so to speak of course having a business model as Tui was mentioning is really important for all of these programs because they are not funded in perpetuity and experimentation is something that I think is really important so to your point Andy what can you do that small that kind of tries it out and can test something iterate and evolve throughout New Inc. we've been trying things evaluating, assessing and iterating which is that kind of lean start up methodology of like failing fast but gaining insights about how we're doing what we're doing because it's new we're borrowing from different models not necessarily executing them 100% as prescribed in other kind of tech incubator or co-working environments because we're sort of adapting it for this particular cultural context and so if you can start small and prototype something in your existing space maybe bringing on a contractor to work in-house like as you were doing in powerhouse and seeing what happens with that that relationship and that exchange and also kind of talking to the people in your community and seeing what do they need what can you provide that you uniquely have access to that is going to benefit them I think it's also that point of that what is the museum got that's unique and valuable to the community and making it feel like what you're making has is aligned with what the museum is about you could all go and set up a commercial thing but that would be kind of silly it has to feel right I think museums we're not good at defining that some of the time and the thing is that these creative companies initiatives are often overlooked like they're not necessarily going to be hugely profitable in the way that venture capitalists are interested in and so they're underserved and how can we as cultural institutions help provide for them where no one else is so just chucked up a few this is from another presentation just a few maybe handy hints of ways that you could start integrating or you know start on the road the journey towards integrating some of the philosophies underpinning the mahuki program but so if you saw that everyone's talked a lot about the Code Weeking but the tertiary engagement some of you will be doing this already but actually the tertiary engagement is quite it's a good solid foundation to the mahuki program there's nothing to stop anyone doing that right now and actually giving live briefs out to students it's a pretty low investment for actually a really high impact some of the ideas that we heard back were phenomenal and not only that but it really inspired staff and got them thinking and it put them into a mentorship leadership role and so then it got them really interested because they were actually sharing their knowledge and information with the students the outreach so the innovation events that I talked about that's very easy to be run you can partner with others that will help you run those of a hackathon start-up weekends we're looking at the potential for upcoming exhibitions could we run some sort of start-up weekend in anticipation of those to get ideas from the start-up community about what we might incorporate into some of those designs start-up methodology we've talked about that Melissa and other members of the public digital team have talked about the agile the land canvas frameworks but all of those are things that underpin mahuki that can be introduced into organizations now and then internship programs so kind of glossed over there but within mahuki we have four paid interns who sit alongside the program for this whole duration but we have up to 26 unpaid interns although some of the people it would be great if we could pay them all but we can't but therefore the UB School of Design who provide high technical skills into the teams and that's another community that we're impacting but then the other one that I didn't have a slide for is actually in a number of organizations you have a commercialization manager or you have someone that actually identifies innovation or activities within the organization and then takes those out and looks to develop those a little bit further that doesn't have to be a whole person that could actually be a part of someone's job but someone that's actually thinking about what is it, so not necessarily new ideas like within mahuki but actually someone that's going around identifying what is it that we're doing in here that actually is really innovative and unique and we could develop that further into some sort of spin out or start up So we might take some other questions I think now because we've got about five minutes left do we have any other questions that you want to ask Can you just wait for the microphone and hold it up to your mouth Hey, so my sorry I did actually miss the first half so sorry if this has been discussed but my kind of question was like which community are you targeting like is there do you worry about maybe just only reaching the a certain maybe privileged community of people who are already entrepreneurs who are already made it and what about the people who maybe have various socio-economic reasons you're trying to talk about that you did so no with the mahuki model we provide funding to the teams that come into the program because it's been shown that and we also provide funding to those four interns if you don't provide funding you will just get a certain demographic involved and we didn't want that so we wanted to have the most obvious of companies that we could possibly choose from but then all of the other activities the tertiary outreach, the start-up outreach the internships all of those are building the next generation of companies or teams that we hope will come into the program Yeah we've actually done quite a bit of legwork around diversity and inclusion and doing in fact with the help of grant we were able to create a position specifically focused on this this past year and what that position does is helps us look at different kinds of pipelines that can address communities of color specifically but also women and representation of different socio-economic backgrounds in the space we have scholarships available for those folks and it's something that we've looked at pretty much from the get-go and have been developing resources to support and enable within our space Yeah we curate our tenants and we take those issues into consideration we also have supported places as well but we take by incorporating ACME-X into the mission of the museum all our initiatives that cover it we try to not separate those out and so far so good I think you know these are all museums as we're starting off these practices in the commercial space we're trying to figure out how to make that work better and we have a lot of way to go on it I think being new at you know the DX Lab we're sort of 15 months in we're starting to realize well who are those people that can benefit from working within the DX Lab with us when we start researching for say younger creative technologists placements and things like that there's not a lot around for people who don't get opportunities in some of the regional areas so we're looking at trying to offer a program for people who necessarily don't get those opportunities and that can be through the digital dropping program or through a fellowship so I think it's a really good question to be aware of do we have any more questions before we finish up? one more just one more in relation to how these hubs are being used the various organizations or companies that come in it's a you're encouraging them to use the digitized collections that might be available as that part of the sort of are you getting something back in return I suppose that's what I'm curious about and how might that relationship be developed after the period that might be in the hub well in our case we're not a collecting institution so we don't focus on that but we do think about ways that the museum can be a testing ground for some of these ideas so we've done several collaborations with the new museum store with the membership department with the education department so we're plugging into the museum in various ways that are not necessarily related to the exhibitions at the moment that's kind of the next area that I want to tackle ours is very explicitly using the museum space people product test in the museum space there have been some commissions that have come out in the last 6 months there was a VR commission a lot of public programs and talk series a whole bunch of benefits in terms of programming content and experiences but those are two way exchanges of value one thing again being museum of interactive media and games and TV and film that sort of thing if somebody comes and tests their video game or their VR experience on the weekend in our public spaces not only is that the business getting the learnings from that the public is getting to see how those experiences are made and how those processes what firms are doing that so for us it's pretty clear about that exchange which is a unique selling point for our tenants too the tenants want to align with our brand and what we're about and the resources we have the networks we have the connections we have and it's about new exchange then for us it's the same as what I said previously so having some of the teams be deployed is a tangible outcome but not just into purpose so we've been really worked hard to try to involve lots of other museums from New Zealand on different shapes and sizes so that the solutions that the teams are developing also account for right down to the Catherine Mansfield birthplace or the cricket museum through to wonderful mediums not just a national museum in terms of the ongoing relationship for us although we're not there won't be co-located with us it's not a co-working situation we aim to have an enduring relationship with those teams so they will turn into our alumni, alumni of 2016 will continue to run a program of activities for them next year and then when we bring in 2017 they become alumni, our alumni grows bigger and bigger so this again it's about growing the big ecosystem I think we need to get Julia down on stage there's tea first thank you Julia 728 that was a really informative great panel


Hey everybody, welcome to the Linuxcast. I'm your host Matthew Weber. I'm joined by nobody. Yes, I'm all alone. Again, sad me. Today's topic. So lately I've been taking big grand overall you know kind of meta topics like why you should use art, why you should use Ubuntu, those kind of things. Today I'm going to do something a little different. Kind of not. So today's topic is snaps for good or evil. It's going to be the title of the episode. I talked a little bit about this when we talked about Ubuntu, but I thought it would be good to dive in because there's been a lot of discussion about the state of snaps and the state of package management and Linux and fragmentation and all that kind of thing going on lately and I thought I'd throw my two cents in for what it's worth, which is I guess would be two cents. So I thought I'd start this Linux podcast is primarily for new people.  So if you don't know Linux applications come in packages, if you're using Ubuntu usually they or at least they used to these to come in devs. If you're if you come in, if you're using a Fedora based distro, you know, RPMs and so on. And then you'd use a package manager to install those things. So if you're on Arch, you use Pacman, Ubuntu or Debian, Apption, OpenSuzo, you use Zipper, things like that. And because there are so many distros and every distro has their own package management system and different way of packaging things, every developer would have to go through and package their application for each of these distros in order for them to be on there. No, normally it wasn't the developer themselves that it or perhaps it was, or it was a member of the community. But it still entails a lot of work. The idea behind snaps is that this developers can go through and package their application one time in a snap using snapcraft. And the their app would be available on any distro that supports snap, which is pretty much all Linux distros. Not all Linux distros support snap out of the box, but it's fairly easy to install snapd, depending on no matter what distro you're on. Another thing that snaps do is it contains all the dependencies that the application would need. So if say you were installing a window manager, for example, i3, i3 necessitates you install several dependencies in order to make it work properly. i3 bar, i3 lock, demenu, or some other kind of menu system needs to be installed, otherwise i3 just is pretty much useless. Same thing with a lot of every package.  So by having snaps, you package all those things right in, and it also prevents breakages later on. So if you package a game necessitates a 32-bit binary of some kind, and that binary later on becomes unsupported, you still have that package available in your snap, and it keeps your application alive. One thing that Canonical does is it builds the snap store as the app store for Linux, and we're going to talk a little bit about that, whether or not that's a good thing or not in the third section of this podcast. So one of the questions I wanted to ask was why do we need snaps, and I've already alluded to it a little bit. It's easier for developers. It's probably the number one biggest grandest reason behind why snaps and alternatives to snap like Flatpak are a good idea. It allows developers to package their app one time, and then snap, well, the snap store will take care of distributing that through snapd. And that's a great thing for developers because, like I said, they don't have to go through and package it for the AUR. They don't have to package it for Debian distros.  Another thing is it allows users to control versions of software. So I already talked about this a little bit. When you package the dependencies within a snap, it keeps those dependencies active inside the snap. They don't go away. It also prevents breakages from updates. So say somebody, you know, the developer of a certain 32-bit library or whatever library updates, and that update breaks your application, you still have the older version contained within your snap and your application still works. Again, saving developers both time and effort. So the idea behind why snaps are good and why we need snaps is to kind of dilute the travesty of fragmentation and it allows developers to spend more time developing. It allows users to know where applications are. So one of the things that probably is the biggest problem on Linux in terms of applications really isn't fragmentation so much as app discoverability. When you want an application for the Mac, you go to the Mac App Store. When you want an application for Windows kind of has the same problem as their applications are kind of all over the place.  The real Windows Store, nobody uses it. Those applications are horrible. But if you want to use Google Play on Android or the iOS App Store, other examples. On Linux, we don't really have that and that's what Snap is trying to do, is a single place where you can go and search for apps that make it easy for you to find new apps to discover categories of different apps like games and things like that. So the ideas behind it are trying to solve real true problems that Linux does have because fragmentation and app discoverability are problems that we face officially competing against the likes of Apple who does app stores really well. So that answers the next question which is are Snaps a good solution to the problem of fragmentation? I think the answer to this is an obvious yes. There are a lot of Linux distributions out there so one place to get all your software just makes sense. On the other hand, we're going to get into the downside so we might as well start here. What are the downsides of Snaps? It reduces the control the distro you use has over the software that is available on its platform. So if you listen to any other Linux podcast, you probably heard them talk about the kerfuffle between Linux Mint, the developers of Linux Mint and the Snap craft team. It all had to do with Chromium and not wanting to support Snaps. Snaps doesn't really give the distribution developers any control over what packages they use. A distribution could go through and give these a certain set of apps and they could give those in Snaps but they don't have control over what's packaged in with those dependencies, what version of those dependencies are or anything like that and that could be a big problem for distributions who are more controlling over what they allow on their system on their distros. Especially on that beginning ISO, why distributions really truly want tight fist control over what's on there. I really don't care what the users do after they install it. Although it does a lot of times if you include an application on your distro and especially for new users, the users of those applications don't go to those applications website for support. They go back to the distro. So say you get an arch distro and it comes with whatever an arch based distro and it comes with the chromium whatever you don't go to the chromium website for support you go to the arched space distros for support and well that's not necessarily the best way to go about it. That's the way new users most often work. So the biggest downside to Snap, and this is the one that sticks in a lot of people's craw, is that the sticks in a lot of people's, it pushes people in the wrong direction. It's owned and operated by one single company. And for the most part the Linux community has no control over that company and that company's canonical now. In the episode we talked about Ubuntu there's a lot of good things that canonical does for the Linux community. I think they do more net good for the Linux community than they do net bad I guess is the way I say it. But they are a company and in the end of the day some day they're going to file for an IPO and they're going to become a public company and at that moment their sole goal is to make money. And that's going to be a big problem because especially if Snap's become the primary way of getting applications across all of Linuxdom. By having one company in control that refuses to open source the Snap store. So that's another thing. The store itself is not open source. It's closed source, it's proprietary to canonical and nobody knows what goes on. Now Snaps themselves are open source. You can get in and audit those and things but you can't audit the store. It's controlled by canonical. Now if canonical decides to shut it down someday Snaps will still work because technically anybody can distribute a Snap but the Snaps store would be gone. Same thing if they instituted some crazy privacy policy sometime in the future. You'd have to put up with it if you were going to use the Snap store. Now I'm not one of those Linux people who say that all closed source things are evil. I don't think that's necessarily true. I do think that it is unusual for a company that proclaims itself to be the champion of open source software like canonical does to have a software system or a program that is not open source and now there's some threads out there that has Mark Shuttleworth explaining why it's closed source and some of that stuff does make sense. It's about security and blah blah blah blah. But the ideals behind open source and behind Ubuntu and Snaps as it should be and almost every package you use on Linux is that it allows the community to go in and see what's going on and that's not something you can do with the Snaps store and that's because it's controlled by canonical. It was done by canonical and it's probably not going to change. That's a big deal for a lot of people especially if for other distros who may or may not enjoy being reliant on a company or on a single company for software distribution. That's one of the reasons why Snap is just going to be an option for people. I think I was going to wait until the conclusion to say this but Snaps aren't going to you know you get on the internet and you see clickbait titles Snap versus Flatpak who's going to win. Nobody's going to win. They're just both going to be there. It's the same thing like the AUR is not going to go away. For most ARCH users I'd say the vast majority of ARCH users right now the AUR and the ARCH repositories are the primary means of getting software on ARCH. Some of people will probably use Snaps when they need to but most people on ARCH will probably use they are in the ARCH repositories. On Ubuntu, Snaps are much more attractive because of the mess that is the PPA system. It's really attractive on Ubuntu when you go want to find a program and you just have to go to the Snap store and Snap install whatever instead of hunting down a PPA, wearing that that PPA is out of date, wearing that the programs out of date is in the PPA, wearing that the program doesn't have the dependencies that it needs or the dependencies have security risks or whatever. The Snaps are much more attractive on Ubuntu than they are on anything that's based on ARCH. Now obviously you know I'm a big ARCH fanboy so AUR for the win but that's one of the you know if I had my way the AUR would be the future of Linux package management and distribution but that's never going to happen. Ubuntu is not going to adopt the AUR which is just you know it's just a crying shame. So this isn't so much a problem anymore than as it was maybe like a year ago but Snaps aren't always kept up to date so it's a much less of a problem than say like PPAs which I was just talking about but a lot of times the Snap stuff is a version behind which you'd get if you just package the thing yourself or maybe the company supplies of the app you're talking about supplies with the Snap and a you know regular package the package might be of a new version than what you'd get in a Snap and a lot of times Snaps don't play well with GTK themes which is a big you know sometimes problem so they look kind of janky. I mean that's not a huge problem for functionality but you know it can be annoying. I have a mark down here the AUR is better so I'm going to do an episode I think on why I think the AUR is so great but for the most part the AUR is kind of like the Snaps store only it's not universal cross Linux not every distro can use the AUR so that's the downside of the AUR but I think for ARCH users it's just superior superior to Snaps in almost every way outside of security. The AUR has some security problems but you know I've been using ARCH for since 2017 you know off and on and I've never single had a single time have it a problem with an AUR package being insecure or crashing my computer or anything like that so I think for the most part security problems in the AR is you know is kind of fud. Anyway so the last section that I want to talk about you know speaking of the AUR is alternatives to Snaps and you might ask well why do we want alternatives if Snaps is so good and it's good for Linux to have alternative ways of doing things that aren't controlled by Canonical or just one company. Now the biggest alternative is Flatpak now the downside of Flatpak of course is that it is also controlled basically by one company although Flatpak is I'm going to say this and I'm not sure if it's true but I'm pretty sure it's true that Flatpak gets completely open source whereas you know down Snaps are not and Snaps isn't but Flatpak. Flatpaks are controlled by Red Hat I believe maybe Fedora. I think it's Fedora it's definitely Fedora okay I know what I'm talking about I'm an expert not anyways it seems that Snaps have kind of taken the lead in the whole package management race but Flatpaks are still out there and they're going to remain to be out there as a feasible alternative they're not quite as easy to use as Snaps I think that's the reason why Snaps seems to have overtaken the Linux community as they have and Flatpak kind of has it is mostly because Flatpaks aren't quite as easy to use as Snaps now that's from a new user's perspective if you use Linux for you know a long time Flatpaks aren't hard to install they're just not quite as easy and it it's good that there's that alternative the problem is becoming is that there's is the age old Linux problem is now there's a to a different system of doing things for universal package management is that there's fragmentation so there's programs that are in Snap that aren't in Flatpak and there are flat programs that are in Flatpak that aren't made in Snap forms and that means you're going to have to have both installed if you're going to use these universal package management systems you're going to have to have both installed if you want to use them to their full extent because some programs will be in one some programs will be in the other and that's a that's an issue that is just going to plague Linux forever and ever and ever unless they all switch to the use the AUR again the AUR it's awesome if everybody used the AUR no fragmentation everybody would just have all the programs if they ever be right there I mean why doesn't everybody just use the AUR it'd be so much easier anyways the last one I want to talk about excuse me I needed a drink the last one I need want to talk about is elementary os now I have a lot of problems the way elementary os does their package management in terms of app stores the idea behind them creating an app center that allows people to pay developers is fantastic I think developers deserve to be paid I'm not one of those Linux users who thinks that free means you shouldn't have to pay anything the problem I have with elementary os is that it creates a situation where Linux applications aren't necessarily available on other distros it so you used to be for the most part if you created a Linux program or Linux application and you package it chances are you'd package for Ubuntu you'd package it for the AUR and you'd package it for you know for Red Hat or Fedora you'd package it three times and you know and then you keep updating it three times every time you did an update the elementary way of doing things is you might create an application for elementary which is that just single one distro and it may not be packaged even for Ubuntu or for for R or anything other things and that's because they have that incentive to be elementary exclusive so it creates even more fragmentation but that is one way to do it and like I'm a big fan of the way elementary does it but of all the Linux distros their app center is the best app store out there it does create problems like I said but it's still the best and it's also they have the only solution so far to the problem of getting developers paid and that's something that Apple has excelled at even though they get in trouble a lot for taking it cut developers deserve to be paid and right now like I said elementary's apps center is really the only cohesive way for multiple developers to come together and all get paid for their apps so that's just one way to do it whether or not like I said that's the best way to do it I don't know so that's it for this episode it's a little short mostly that mainly because I need to talk a little slower like I said I'm working on doing this by myself and it's a little annoying so I can't really pace myself anyway so if you want to get in contact with us I was gonna put this at the beginning but it didn't so if you want to get in contact with us or with me you can do so at the linux cast is the twitter handle for the podcast you can also follow me on twitter I'm at mtwv I'm looking for a co-host like I said Ricky who started this with me he's a busy guy I'm sure he will join me again once in a while but otherwise I'll be doing this solo until I find somebody to talk to I'm just a lonely, lonely loser here talking all about Linux all by myself if you want to follow us on facebook if you can do so at facebook.com slash the linux cast I don't use facebook that often on that page so pretty much all you'll get is notifications of new episodes which probably be better off getting on twitter I think that's all I have to say for this time so coming up next time I'm going to be talking I might as well just do my AUR is best I'm gonna talk about why the AUR is so good and I'll be next week so I'll see you next time


Hello, my name is Brad Langdell and are you a fan of like vintage things things from the past? Well, then you'll like this physics problem because you're gonna use some ideas from the past We're gonna talk about charge particles in uniform electric fields Those are probably new and we're gonna talk about a blast from the past projectile motion. This is a tough question It's got like 72 steps. So you can stop you can go back. You can check things out again if you need to Let's try it out So we've got a small positive charge and we know what the mass of the charge is five times ten to the negative four kilograms It's going at 350 meters per second into a parallel plate capacitor I'm gonna show you the picture for that here in a second. It kind of looks like this, okay? now the separation between the plates is 5.5 Centimeters and the potential difference between the places of the thousand volts Charge on that particle is positive three micro coulombs Assuming it starts right at the top of the capacitor How far from the entrance does it move before it hits the bottom?  And if you're looking at this and saying this diagram looks kind of familiar That's good because this is gonna go through Projectile motion it's gonna make up parabola in this uniform electric field And so this problem is gonna walk you through the steps for how to figure out how far this object goes horizontally how far it goes Displacement in the x direction kind of like we called it back in physics 20. Okay. There's my really horrible DX Okay, lots of steps the basic idea is very similar to everything. We've been working on in this unit So I've got my diagram drawn and labeled and I want to think a little bit about the fact that this is uniform motion in the x direction and Accelerated motion in the y direction classic projectile motion sort of stuff. Now if you're looking for some more Videos on projectile motion. I'll put a link to that so you can check it out here and see how to do that from back in physics 20 Now what I want to start doing is thinking a little bit about What have I got for variables? What can I work with here? What can I do with these variables? Well, the first thing I notice is I've got Potential difference and the distance between the plates if I take those two I can combine them to find the electric field strength Okay, so that's going to be my first little calculation I could do now I know that doesn't seem like it's gonna help me figure out how far this particle goes But it's something I could try and I would get a number and maybe it would help me out So if I take the potential difference of a thousand volts divided by the separation between the plates I get the electric field. Great. There's the electric field. This particles moving through maybe that will help somehow Okay, what can I do next? Well, I know electric field now and I know charge From electric field and charge I can go through and find electric force And so I've got a little calculation for that down there as well Again, it's kind of funny because you might think to yourself that electric force isn't gonna help me I'm not looking for the electric force. I'm actually looking for how far it goes But again, it's something you just kind of work out So here I went and worked it out and I found that if I substituted in the electric field and the charge On that particle I could find the electric force the particle moves through Okay, well now what can I do? I know force and I know mass Thinking back to physics 20 force and mass fit into Newton's second law and allow me to go through and do a calculation to find Acceleration so I substituted into Newton's second law the force that I just calculated along with a mass the particle I found its acceleration now This is going to be its vertical acceleration again because the y dimension is the accelerated dimension and the x dimensions Just uniform motion. So I know the acceleration in the y direction Okay, what can I do for with acceleration in the y direction and how far the particle moves in the y direction? Well, this is where physics 20 comes in handy I can calculate how long it takes the particle to move through these parallel plates I'm using a kinematics formula here And this is the same kinematics formula we used back in physics 20 d equals v it plus one half at squared The initial velocity in the y direction is zero is not 350 that's the x direction. We're talking about the y direction here the vertical the accelerated motion So I put a zero in for that velocity. I know how far the particle is going to move vertically point zero five five meters I know the acceleration vertically and I can go through and solve for the time zero point zero three one eight seconds Now we're getting somewhere because if I know how long the particle is in this electric field for I can now go And do my uniform motion in the x direction. I can calculate how far it goes into the capacitor Here I'm using the uniform motion formula v equals d over t. I just rearranged it d equals v times t multiplied the Horizontal speed and the time figure out how far it goes in That's a lot of steps And so one of the things I'm thinking through and I'm working these problems is not necessarily What are all the steps? I have to do all at once. I'm just doing one little thing at a time Baby steps. I'm trying to figure out one variable from another and just seeing where that path leads me It takes practice, but with a bit of practice you can get pretty good at these kinds of problems For more problems like this and for some notes on this as well. You can check out my website www.ldindustries.ca


So what if I want to design my own functions, you know, I've been using other people's functions I've been using the math library the random library What if I want to build my own kind of Functionality and what I can do is I can actually do that obviously and To do that what I do is I come in and I utilize something called the def command now the def Basically is saying define this function and I give it whatever that functions name is going to be So in this case plus one, that's the name of my function and then I give it whatever Parameters I'm expecting this to take now in this case Plus one is expecting one parameter over here and say hello. It's also expecting one parameter in this case name So now what we can do with this is we can do two different things one over here on say hello I Can just do a print statement now you notice over here, there's no You know What happens after prints, you know what happens when I'm done Well in this case nothing happens. I just call say hello and I'm done with it But what if I want to save sort of the value I'm calculating out? Obviously, that's what we're doing when we do say the math class We're the math library when I call math that sqrt. I get a number back I want to be able to use that number the same kind of concept comes in here and to do that I Use something called return now what return will do is it'll come in and it will spit out that same number for me So let's kind of see that in action. I Say for example, I want to design my own sort of method function, I'll call it deaf my Function and I'm gonna give it One variable. I'm gonna call it. I'm gonna call it x. I'm gonna call it variable. Why not? Once I've done this I give it a colon This is basically my wave just like with an if statement I come in and I'm saying that all the code inside of these this tabbed area is gonna all of a sudden be a part of the My function function. So what am I gonna do with that? Well, I'm gonna say that variable is gonna equal variable Raise to the second power. Okay, and then variable is gonna equal variable Times negative one and then I'm gonna go variable Equals math Dot, I don't know sqrt variable Now I do have to kind of come in because I'm using the math library all of a sudden I have to import Math So all of a sudden I've created these different things now. I'm not 100% done just yet and the square root of a negative number Just to make it easy on myself. I mean, I just put it as a three. I know Variables just sitting floating in space with my function if I were to come in afterwards and try and print this my Function with I don't know 10 Well, mathematically, I can kind of see what I would be doing here I'd be saying 10 raised to the second power a hundred Hundred times three three hundred. What's the square root of three hundred? Off the top of head Not even gonna try I guess But all of a sudden, you know, that's not what we're going to see when I save this. Let me save this just call it function demo Dot pie and so when I run this I Get none I get none the reason why is because Variable variable never leaves my function So that's where this return comes into play by me saying return Before my function kind of finishes packs up goes out of memory and all that nonsense Go ahead and save it for a second Kind of move it, you know, put it out In our case to this print statement. So now all of a sudden when I run this instead of seeing none I should see 17.32. So now all of a sudden I can have some of that ability Again, I'm able to still have methods functions define my function to Name that don't have any form of a Return statement I can do something like a print statement print Hello name There's nothing wrong with that, but I just don't have any I can't come in and say for example you know phrase equal My function to Adam and then print Phrase I don't get this ability right here. What I should see is hello, Adam instead what I'm gonna see is my 17 32 because that's what I got with my function And then we see hello Adam because that's being called inside of my My function to but then when I go to actually print phrase Again a none now is at the end of the world. No, you just would not do this Whereas this is perfectly valid right here Now we're getting somewhere One other thing that we can also do is we can also add in more variables so I can come in and say def my function three Instead of just having one variable. I can come in and separate these by commas and go variable to Variable three as many as I want I'll go for and All I'm going to have this do is return all of them added together. So return Var one plus var two plus var three get my spacing right Three plus var four boom Same kind of song and dance can come in echo And I can put in here one two Four that's what I wrote five. I run this I should see 17 point 32 again because this is still getting printed I should see hello Adam because my function two is printing inside of it And then I should see one plus two plus four plus five which is 12 because of my function three and Takes one positional argument before we're given what ah Always check code. I put my function my function is only expecting one variable. So It's yelling at me. It's saying. Oh, you gave me four when you should have only gave me one That's because I should have been working on function three There we go. Now when I run it, I should see 17. Hello Adam 12