So, quickly you're in the session now hearing this, putting voice, video, and text into the rail. A quick introduction. My name is Ben Plank. I'm actually very proud of you on the Save Atlanta welcome. Hope you all have enjoyed it like so far. You may also know me through some of my open source contributions. Just a quick show. Okay, has anyone heard of the Georgian? Has anyone used it? Come on. All right. Cool. I'm going to talk about a Georgian that you want to just quickly mention because it bears relevance to the talk. A Georgian is an open source framework for voice applications. So you can think of it as the rails are super-level. A Georgian is for voice and for built-up video games. I'm also the founder of a company called Learning the Language based here in Atlanta. And this is what we do. We work with voice applications. We build them. We scale them. We do usability. This is a topic close to my heart by communications applications in particular. Today, I want to tell you why the web is a lot like outer space. Because on the web, no one can hear your screen. So let me just paint a scenario. Sometimes you're working with your app and all of a sudden something happens and you realize you need to speak with one of your customers.  And the main problem with this is that when you pick up that phone, any communication that you have is now outside of your business process. It's not noted within the business application. It's not recorded. The fact that you can call, have it is in no way, in most cases, is in no way reflected in the state that you're going to your customer. And also the communication itself is fairly limited. You've got this really kind of crappy narrow-bed audio signal to talk through. You can't easily share pictures. You can't easily share links. You really don't have a very rich communication experience. Wouldn't it be cool if we could, instead of having that phone call happen outside of your app, put the communication right into the application itself? That would be cool. Yeah. Okay. So that brings us to something called WebRTC. I'm going to show it again. Has anyone heard of WebRTC? Cool. That number goes up every time I ask because it's absolutely an happy thing for me to see. Has anyone actually tried it? A couple. Okay. Well, hopefully at the end of this talk, y'all have some resources for you that will inspire you to give us some information on how you can try it. For those who aren't familiar, WebRTC is fundamentally about audio, getting the speaker, microphone, and the camera in the browser, and making use of that in a web application. So what is it? It is the camera and microphone, but it's without any plugins. This means that if you want to go build a real-time communication app, you want to take advantage of the mic and speaker force and kind of app. You don't actually need a watch. You need a jargon. And all of the bad things that come with having plugins such as crashes and ICQ, it's built right into the browser. WebRTC additionally has functionality built-in to establish peer-to-peer connectivity between two or more partners. This is really an interesting point, which I'll touch on in more than a minute, but connectivity across the internet can be really tricky with map firewalls and things like this. So WebRTC has functionality built-in to help traverse connections from higher walls. The last thing it provides is a common set of codecs for actually exchanging high-definition media. So I'll talk more about that in a second as well. So fundamentally it is a WebRTC as a JavaScript browser API. You tend to access it using JavaScript problems built in the browser. It can also be used for mobile, although in the mobile world you get all of the bad things to get the standardization, but you don't necessarily have the same API. It's different, it's different. I'm not going to talk too much about mobile today. But the standards for functionality are really interesting. So these codecs, OPUS, G711, HT64, and VPA, these are what make very high-quality audio and video possible on the internet. G711 aside, which we really care about, OPUS is really a pretty amazing product. It comes from a lot of research, including significant contributions from Skype. If any of you have, or most of you haven't made Skype calls, and you know this and just talk good about your sounds, OPUS builds on that research, it actually goes further. OPUS as a product is good enough not only to transmit voice efficiently, which is to say using minimum amount of bandwidth to preserve the size of the audio voice, it actually can scale up and also transmit the music. So it's a very, very high-quality product. It's built to browser no royalties.  OPUS is entirely royalty-free. 264 and VPA are two competing standards for transmitting video. 264 has been around for a while and it actually is patent-encumbered, although Cisco has paid for licenses so that open-source software like Firebox. Convention Chrome will support 264. VPA is actually a codec that Google acquired or company and then released all of its IP. So it's a fully open standard open-license codec for video. And that's very exciting because that means that we'll be able to do video without paying royalty eventually. It's still a product. But what these do provide you, built to the browser, is very, very high-quality audio and video. There are a few more alphabet soup type things that are built to the standard. SDP is the mechanism by which the two endpoints exchange information about where they are. We'll talk about that in a second. I study, in turn, these are the protocols used to reverse the firewall. And then DTLSSRTP is exciting because it is basically on by default in person. So all of your calls will be on the media, all of your calls will be in person. So finally, what is WebRTC? A lot of people in the telephony industry get really excited about the idea of putting a telephone in a web browser. And please, if you take one thing away from today, do not take that away. It isn't to put a telephone in a web browser because we can do so much more. The web is a rich power of user interface possibilities. So think of it instead as communications in a web browser. And a quick note on the relevancy of WebRTC. This is a chart compared by, this is the only undead chart I've got this whole time. Dean Dudley puts together this chart projecting the top keyword of WebRTC. And the gray line at the bottom represents browsers. And we're pretty much attending that point today where there are about a billion, over a billion browser-based, desktop browser-based devices that support WebRTC. The interesting part is the growth of tablets and smartphones because these communications options won't just be in the browser, they'll also be on mobile devices, whether that's mobile web or native to apps. Eventually, coming very soon, there will be a lot of WebRTC of mobile devices out there. Okay, so before we go further into WebRTC, I want to just give a real quick background on communications problems. So this is how communications are facilitated today. The most if you pick up a phone, you know, you might have your service to AT&T. When Alex wants to call up, she'll pick up the phone, she'll dial. That signal at AT&T. AT&T shoots over Verizon. Verizon sends it back down to Bob. This is called a trapezoid. It's pretty classic. That really relies on every subscriber having a relationship and then all of those carriers being federated with each other. The advantage of this is that everybody can call everybody. We have one set of phone numbers and generally, as long as all of the carriers federate, everyone's reachable. But there are a lot of problems with that because of the overhead that comes with all of that federation. There's a lot of innovation that gets lost. You just don't move very quickly when you have to coordinate companies all around the world and then not to mention devices in users' hands all around the world. Also, it's not particularly user-friendly. If you think about identity in the form of a cell phone, your identity is your phone number. But that's the least. It's 10 random digits that are assigned to you by your phone company. So it really means nothing to you. And yet we come and be associated with this identity. So this architecture has some significant drawbacks. The next kind of architecture is more of a trial. And Skype is a good example of this. You have one set of numbers and you have endpoints that connect it to it. Now these guys are able to innovate a lot faster because they control both the network and the endpoints. So we've got things like video. We've got things like high-definition calls. We have plenty of usernames, usernames that we actually picked in the process of signing up. But there's still two things that are problematic with this. One is that it's essentially a wall guard. I can't build them out that integrates with Skype all that well. I certainly can't base Skype in one of those processes. Which means, second of all, it's not great protection. I still have to go for separate service, separate applications to actually handle my communication. It's not based in my business process. So with my RTC, we actually get to do something that looks more like this. So we get to keep the standard for the trial that we've been failing. It's actually a more permanent trial. Because what's happening here is the signaling goes back to the website. So again, I'm not developing plugins. I just go to the web application and it serves me all of the tools I need to enable the team to base Skype. That sounds great. Second, the signaling and the media are separate. So what happens is when that phone wants to be set up, Alice will send it with Quest, which just contains her information to the web service. The web service will share that information back to us. But let's imagine you have a firewall here. The media actually is exchanged behind the firewall. So this has some really interesting implications to our performance. This has some really interesting implications for quality. If you are on a low bandwidth link, maybe you're in a... I was actually working in Marneos once in the internet connection off the island with Dev. So he had connections on the island, but not connections off the island. You actually can still communicate, because all of the media was exchanged for so that we were not using expensive bandwidth routers across congestive links. All of the video was being passed on the LAN, even though the session setup could be elsewhere. So let's take a little bit further into a WebRTC session setup might work. So we'll start with Alice using Firebox. She is going to send a request to initiate communication with Pop. That request contains something called an SDP, a session-disturbing protocol. For practical purposes, just think of it as a paid blob of text. But this blob of text contains a bunch of things, which include her contact information in the form of an IP address and a port. It contains a list of the codecs that her device supports, this being WebRTC that will be in the page 264. And it contains, as well, a public heap that can be used to encrypt communication being sent to her. Now the Web server doesn't have to do anything with that blob. Again, it's just opaque. All it really has to do is forward that on to recipient, in this case, Pop. So Pop, upon receiving that offer, generates his own response, contains largely the same information that passes it back via the Web service to Alice. Now at this point, a whole bunch of packets start flying between Alice and Pop, starting with ICE, and then STUN, and then TURN. So what those three things do are, ICE, in particular, enumerates all of the network interfaces that you have. So you might have a LAN, you might have a VPN. You will also ping out to the internet and figure out what your public IPs are. Use all that information to try to tell Pop how Alice can best be reached. They can make a direct communication on the LAN grid. If they can, it gives them several firewalls. Maybe we'll do something to try to pierce through the firewall. That's where STUN comes in. In worst-case scenario, if they can't make direct communication either locally or using STUN to reverse the firewall, then there are relay servers called TURN servers that will actually proxy the media. TURN servers will actually just be received from one part of the password together. Now, because they've exchanged private keys using the signaling layer, what will actually happen is the media will be printed. So even though the TURN server technically is in the palace, the media in the worst-case scenario, all that audio is still in the pressure. The TURN server can't see it. Can't do anything about it. It's just data being passed back and forth. So this bank insecurity is one of the big things with WebRT to see that is, I think, relevant given our friends in the NSA who'd like to jump into all of our conversations, properly deploy WebRTC and STUN for being able to see into that media. Now, one of the things I want to make my signaling is, I've used WebServers as my example, but it really doesn't have to be WebServers. All you have to do is get that STP and then play this point of view. We've done the limits with XMPP as the character of this message. You can do it with Redis. I've even seen an example where someone actually took it, put it up on a text file on a USB drive and carried it to the computer and loaded it back in, which would be the sufficient way I could possibly manage this type of call, but it doesn't work. All right, so that's another point. What really gets me excited about the applications is how we use it. In the last couple of years of building these applications, I've thought about what it takes to build these applications, and what attributes applications like this should have. So I came up with a lot of contents, and I want to share that you should consider when designing communications applications. So a modern voice application should be adaptive, which to me means that it should take advantage of the capabilities of these devices on which it's running. It should be fluid, which is to say it should be able to move across devices and across time, even across users, and still preserve the context of the conversation. It should be contextual, because really this is the value of what you're building, the communication happening in context with whatever application it supports. It should be trustworthy, because the worst thing in the world is to communicate something sensitive and then have it revealed or realize the capabilities are suppressed. And the last point is that it should be reference. So we go a little bit more on each of these. Adaptable. What does it mean to be adaptable? Alex, again, is on Firebox. She has a pretty broad range of options available. She has a keyboard for input. She obviously can set text back and forth. She's got a wide range of cameras and speakers. She can really have a very rich communications interface. And maybe she's talking to this guy over here, who's on his iPad, with a very similar set of input options available. So whatever app we build for them might enable video conversation, audio conversation, text, link sharing, all that. Now this one wants to join the conversation as well. She's on a smartphone, and this particular smartphone either doesn't have a camera, or maybe she doesn't have a bandwidth, or maybe not a battery to support a video screen. So she still wants to participate in the conversation. She still wants to talk about whatever the issues are. Well, she can still receive text messages if we have a, send or receive text messages if we have a mobile app to play. And she can also participate by audience. So think of this sort of as your conference call where some of the people have a side channel where they can use video with richer communications. Whereas this third party really is only in by voice, but currently she is able to participate. The same is true with this poor guy. I don't even know if they're worried about that thing. But he can still join it, right? He can still talk. And then we have this last guy who also has a browser, but either his microphone is broken or maybe his baby is asleep and he doesn't want to talk. Actually, I've got one good guy who's in Milan and he's six hours ahead of us. So all the time we'll have calls after his kids go to bed and he's always beautiful because he doesn't want to talk. So we'll say something and if he wants to feedback, a lot of times we'll just write something into our first side channel. So an app that's adapted will enhance or degrade gracefully based on the capabilities and choices that users make. That's what we've adapted all along. Alright, let's start by being fluent. So conversations often start, especially today with chat. I certainly don't want to reach out to somebody, but first the idea is to pick up my phone in a lot of cases. At least if it's a co-worker it's not. I'd like to start with chat and I want to see where they are and maybe ask a question to AC to see. I just want to see if it is available. But at some point chat comes to you so we'll switch to audio. So I want to be able to click a button that enhances that conversation from the same conversation to the same context from chat to audio. Maybe I want to pull a couple more people in because this is especially getting bigger if you want to. Maybe you can buy a customer. Maybe you want to buy someone from the department. I'll bring the video because some things, whether the pictures tell the thousand words and videos will actually work in a second. But then when we're done we should be able to go back to chat. And the flow here is that this is still one conversation and I think Skype knows this very well. You never had a Skype conversation where you started chatting and then went up to video in the background. You can kind of steal back in the history of your conversations. And of course, frankly, being able to switch devices, this is a big one. And not everyone really gets this right. Again, I want to give Skype credit for this. I'm at my desk and I need to leave. I can actually transition that call to my note very easily. Okay. Being contextual, this is my favorite of the five. A friend of mine, Jetpondwork has this really great book that in the future communicating isn't what you're going to be doing. It's what you're doing while you're doing something else. This idea that we have dedicated communication devices I think is, I said, I think it's done. I mean, even all of us, the phone that we carry isn't primarily a phone. It's everything else, right? So being contextual is all about getting context into the conversation or putting the conversation in the context of what's happening. These are just some sort of not entirely random examples, but examples of information that may be useful to a conversation. So how many callers are waiting in the queue in the context area? Or how much will be sold in the next month? I like the way this is how do I manage it for this call because it implies not only that the manager can easily add it to this conversation, but the business relationship is understood by the application. So if I may request, I say my manager, the application is who I am, who's my manager is, who's how to reach my manager, and then actually add to the conversation. You can see this in text as well. So a good multimodal application contextual knowledge will facilitate the direct participants of the conversation. There are also third party services. In this case, you can see that we were talking about looks like we had a problem with Astros, but you can actually see that notifications from New Relic were being pushed directly into the conversation. So that just gives everybody more visibility about whatever problem they are solving. This is a great example of really business-specific information. So in this case, I made a conversation and I just, when I said this message, all I typed was I wanted to know about A but 2.5. But the application did is it actually went back, it understood that that was a special string, hashtag, so to speak. And it actually looked up that information from the database and it rendered some information alive. So this conversation now has not only what I said, but the context top what I said with very little effort from me. So this makes all of that communication much more fluid. Everybody's on the same page. So the important thing, any communication that I absolutely ask the user, the user don't trust that they won't use it. So how can it be trustworthy? I think the number one rule, don't surprise the user. Don't do something that they don't expect. One example that would be don't share the contents of the conversation but they don't expect that conversation to share it. So if you have a conversation between two people, generally speaking no one else should be able to come back later and access that same conversation. It's really important I think as well to help users make smart choices where it's required. So there's been a lot of debate about as what RTC is matured as the browsers have adopted standards, there's been a lot of discussion about how to request permission, how to handle the right time. Google does a really nice job I think. Here we're going to Google Hangout, start a Google Hangout. When you first load the page if you've not been there before the first thing you ask is, can I ask the access of the camera? Now it does remember that, I'll get to these about that later, but it does remember that you've granted access before it drops into the conversation. You see a picture of yourself and it says here's what you look like, are you ready to go in? I mean that's an important step or somebody loads a site they've been to before, they've already granted permission. It takes you straight into the conversation and then they just realize that they're recording panics. So doing things, little things like that to try to help you always feel fully in control of their communication is really important. And that's especially true with microphones. You know, at least on Macs cameras kind of get a little green dot that tells us that it's on. Microphones don't have such a dot. So there are a lot of things that I could be able to do. I could lead to some unhappiness. Another item about trust readiness is identity. So identity is an interesting thing. There are lots of applications that make their name based on anonymity. There is no identity. That's an important use case. But for, I think the hybrid app having identity is core to facilitating communication. You want to know moving the other end of the call. You want to know the number. And I can say, well, that's my wife. I know who that is. In reality, quality is actually very, very easy to do. So, the only reason that we don't see a lot more of that is just because it's basically the carriers controlling the network itself. But anyone who gets a certain kind of voice or a peak connection or a peak or an old PRI would be able to actually set the quality to whatever they want. A lot, many more options for a certain identity. We have the law. We have social identity from Facebook and GitHub and Twitter. And we can actually use those to enhance the communication. And if your communication is built into the app, use the identity that comes from your app to assert who the user is. And finally, these conversations should be referenced. So, referenceability is, I think, all about sharing. Conversation, in my mind, should have a URL. This is an easy thing to do. We deal with resources and objects and all that. So every conversation with the URL that is permanent and unique, it represents the latest state of communication request. So, if you schedule them all, then you should generate a URL that says, this call will happen. If the call is going on and you hit that URL, really, it should bring you straight to the conversation. It should present the user interface that lets you be a part of the subject of communication. Once the call is complete, then you should provide some kind of transcripts and you are recording maybe multiple content types. So, if you record the call and you transcribe it, it allows you to download the audio as well as search the transcript. Any images or leaks that were shared can be combined into that view. But this idea of a single conversation can be referenced at a URL in all its forms. And then, whenever possible, because you don't know something's there and you can't find it, it may as well not be there. Oh, there are questions to be able to be shared. That's really one of the main points of having a URL, right? I can copy and paste it into anyone and assuming they have permission to view it, they'll be able to see it. So, those are my tenets. I want to try to apply those. I've got three idea applications. These are not necessarily great ideas by themselves, but I think they illustrate and to enhance web applications today. So, they're kind of a silly one. A live anonymous matchmaking service. Think tender about the video. So, I come to funny dates. You can kind of see we've got two people here who have video sessions going. They've got some stats and how they were matched. Looks like they all like most mustaches and puzzles. But, these people also really want a sense of privacy. They don't necessarily want to share as much information about it. They certainly don't want to give up phone numbers. So, not only did we give the ability to find each other and communicate, we've also given them these stickers that go with their face. You've probably seen some of them similar with Google. We can help them obscure some of their identity by giving them these tools. They can still get a sense of who each other is. They can always see some of the expressions. But you can still hide some of that identity in your phone. So, what does this give you? It gives you safe introductions with strict anonymity. Everybody comes to the site. The site all reveals what it's designed to do. No need to exchange phone numbers. There's a very low friction to get a Google started. There's no app to download. There's no plug into install. Really, just by going to the site, the entire tool kit of communication is built by then. And then we use silly tricks that can be used to break the eyes and if you want, you can do an upsell. Skype just did their language translation, right? Why not apply that to the site, even by text or by auto? All right, so the second example is an instant response app. So, my background is before I became a developer, I did a lot of ops. I did silver administration stuff. And this kind of thing, whenever something goes down, you get that phone call at three in the morning. So, what if we could build something like this? What if we could build something that would enable people to not only discuss whatever is actually broken, but also bring in contextual information that's surrounding the problem. So, on the left, you can see the chat. Just like before, you can see where people are discussing the problem and third-party services, the tan and green lines, third-party services are pushing in data. The content there is important, but it's the idea that anytime someone does a deploying, you can see the play was made. If there's an alert from the monitoring system, you can push into that text chat. On the right, you can see the voice and video conversation going on. And of course, the people who are doing my video will see each other. But there's nothing to say that they couldn't also join by mobile device, by either my telephone call or my mobile app to stay a character in their car. Now, what's really interesting, what makes this different than just the bottom is charts, graphs, contextual data from the monitoring application itself. So rather than waiting for an event to come in, I can actually see trend lines happening in real-time as part of the communications tool. So the way I business is that someone actually, if you have a company that builds monitoring tools, goes and builds this into their bash group. I will not get into that. Whoever does this. So the key here is timely and contextual information. The view itself can adapt. If you're on a mobile device, you'll get a more focus on the communication and less of the bash for-type features, but on the desktop they'll get the full experience. I like, in particular, the emphasis on group-based communication. I can click a button and everyone on the ops team gets an invite to join that particular conversation, context about that conversation. But more importantly, if I need to bring in a vendor, maybe my store wants to give them a user account in my system for that purpose, or we can generate this unique URL, we'll have a token from straight to that page, and he can join in that conversation and see what's discussed there without exposing any of my other conversations too. Of course we can better connect with external services like I mentioned, we can push in data from GitHub or Rural or whatever. We can also record these instances and learn from them later. So once you record it, the same sequence down right breaks in a similar way, someone does a search and finds it, you can come back on this original conversation and understand how this could result. Okay, my third example, many of the records, patient services. So, imagine you have this very simplistic looking website and you want to see, you've been to the Opera Models, you want to see the advice of the Opera Models gave you. So, you actually, gave me some advice. So, the call was recorded, that recording is available for you as the patient to download this site. The transcript of that recording is there as well. And the doctor was actually going to go back and do annotations. So, last time I talked to the doctor, he used some words that I thought I knew how they were spelled and I was wrong. And he was in this case, he would actually write them in and I'd be able to find out how informational those things are. So, if I call with my bill, or if I need to talk to another doctor because I have an urgent problem, I can click a button right here and immediately be connected with someone who already knows who I am, who has access to whatever information I was looking at when I initiated the call, whether that's a bill or medical information. And I don't need to keep track of this phone number. I don't need to keep track of any security information. I think in particular, the identity part of this is interesting because if you call your bank and they ask you for the same three pieces of information your name, your account number, your last footage and your social on it, anybody can fake that, right? But if I have a secure authentication on this website and I log in with my password, they have two backup medications and then they're closing the contract. That strong authentication is carried through to my post-conversation. So, when I click that social security so medical vices face secure for authentication I think is one of the big deals here. You'll reuse the primary authentication from the web app. Maybe you can verify. You can do voice biometrics. Make sure that the person who's calling sounds like the person who's back. You can even cross check against the location which is not something you can really do and then you can automate the claim. So you've got the recordings, the transcripts, the bill, all those people. Any of the medical vices given so that that long string of things I should do three times today that you gave me that I didn't write that because I was too busy listening is on those files. I can go back after and read it by me. It also gives you an easier way to do auditing and service quality assurance. Okay. I hope I can put you to sleep. I have a demo. So, this moment to see things pretty cool and I thought that it would be cool to learn. We have as you can see, I've got Firefox running. I built this really simple little scenario app and all it's done so far is connect to this page so this is an example of what RTC requesting permission from the camera. You may have heard me earlier mention that sites will remember this preference. The standard has fallen upon the idea that if a site is not using HTTPS that it will replace every time. So, I'm running scenario certificate. If this were a site that had HTTPS and everyone should remember this, then it would be wrong. So, this is Chrome. So, I've got I'm sorry, this is Firefox. I've got Chrome over here. I'm going to bring up the launcher. Now, what we have is I'll show you Chrome Chrome is right here. You can kind of see the video coming from Chrome and it's being transmitted to Firefox. Now, these, both of these browsers are running the global list so the traffic is actually only going through the back, even though the server is most important. The other thing I've set up is Google has this really cool speech JPI and they expose it. There's a drop-through library called Recy, if I just listen right now. If I do a break, now granted this is demo so you can probably go below me. But, if I saved the network it should actually activate the launcher then I should be able to talk to the launcher to steer it and fire it. So let's see what happens. Wet on screen, move left, move left, move left. I should have made it go further. How was that? Danger snow. Move down. So the communications here is, the video is obviously WebRTC, the audio is actually using a different browser extension, not a browser extension, excuse me, a different JavaScript API. That is Chrome only. The particular recognizer of music right now is Chrome only. But speech recognition can be done client-side or server-side. If you're using WebRTC, you can very easily call into something like producer address, do your recognition there. And then the last piece of it, which is just to move the logic of the projects, is really nothing more than a curl request, or in my case, just a jQuery API call. So that's really it. I mean, it's true to nothing but adding to it. So that's pretty fun. So with that, that was my presentation on WebRTC. I have a few resources for you. You'd like to know more about WebRTC. But personally, in particular, it's great. It's what I use primarily when I'm setting up my demo. It's the official set of samples from WebRTC.org. It's the official set of sample code from WebRTC.org. It's on GitHub. The demos are alive, so if you go to this page, you'll be able to click through and actually start the video. And that average demo includes the link to the GitHub and the source on GitHub. The WebRTC.org itself is sort of the central point for WebRTC resources. I also want to point out an initiative run by a friend of mine, Landry, called the WebRTC Challenge. His goal is to get 1 million developers who are using WebRTC by 2020. It's a pretty obvious goal. I think you can do it. He's got some pretty interesting content, a mailing list. Highly recommended. Let me check that out. A couple things I want to mention as well is visiting RailsConf. If you're interested in doing more voice with Ruby, definitely check out my vision. It's the Rails like framework for voice. I'll also point out Ruby Speech. If you do get into some of the more interesting speech recognitions each recognition scenario's Ruby Speech is a library we're generating the markup needed for driving synthesizers and web parameters. It makes that whole process a lot easier. The last bit is my contact information. I've been playing. I've got the plan to work some quicker at GitHub and, of course, your emailing. But with that, do you have any questions? I would love to answer them. Yes. Yeah, go back to your medical summary. You talked about your body only before. Yes. Yes. The connection of peer-to-peer may have been painful or critical. How did that happen? How did it work? Save that. That's a great, great question. So the question is, in the example with medical reporting, if WebRTC does peer-to-peer encryption, if it's end-ended encryption, how would the call be reported? So the answer to that is that WebRTC can be peer-to-peer, but it doesn't have to be peer-to-peer. So I kind of hinted at this earlier when I said that if the architecture is built to enforce that, you can insure it. The simple thing to explain is that if you have a media server in your network, something like FreeSwitch with browsers, it will participate as a WebRTC endpoint. So instead of going direct from peer, from browser to browser, you go to browser and say FreeSwitch, FreeSwitch with browser. And then in that case, because you're decoding all your error, you need to report this. Yes. So in the use case where the person on the other end steps away from the computer is not at the computer or whatever, do you have options to like route over playing your telephone or just take a voice message or what are your options at? So the question is, if a user steps away from the computer, how do you deal with that? And it sounds like, I guess they step away from the conversation now or during the conversation. Yeah, maybe they're selling something on some site and they aren't usually made yet, but a person on the consumer wants to reach that. So you try, I say, so it's like a contact center scenario where the agent is walking away from the desk. Okay, so in that case, I would probably make sure that the call that comes in gets routed for something that can make more intelligent decisions. So it might try WebRTC first and then after five seconds if that doesn't work, either try somebody else or try to sell them. Now, Astros can re-switch our boat open source to let the agents, they both support WebRTC. If you take that call from WebRTC on the client side, once you get it into either of those, it can be converted to almost anything. It can be converted to more WebRTC, it can be converted to standard SIP, it can be converted to SIP, voice writing, or even to regular telephone network calls. So the same kind of rules that apply are something that I'm very good at with applying that in that case as well. If you really want to get esoteric, there are some motion detection libraries from RobStrip that will actually if you wanted to detect presence by moving the camera, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that. But basically anything you would do to detect session activity and timers, anything you do to detect users' presence on one end can be used as input to some other decision-making and for others. That's the question. Any other questions? Yes. So what are the rules for that? What do you want to state? What do you get out of this location? So are you asking about the IP address? Are you asking if I can get the first IP address or I guess location based on the location you're at? You could. So that particular means what you would have to do in your product line, what you would have to do is you have to control the negotiations in two tiers such that you can strip that person in and then apply all the information. You have to only refer the server side to detect the other person. It could be done if you write a new product line. If you're putting it on text editor and how strict you're... All right. I thank you for my time. Thank you very much.


All right. Let's go to the next topic, the police laws. I would say from what I've read so far, soon your nose is not fitting for me. You should go to jail. We had this time. I remember it. When I was young, there was this wall that came down and it kind of looked like that behind that wall. I don't know if I want to go back to that. That's why I'm super excited why Marie Brackling and Constanze Kurz, both journalists from netspolitik.org, are going to talk about the police laws of Germany due tonight. Big round of applause for the two of them. Well, thank you, Mirko. We're thinking if we should switch to French and do this in French, but I think we're going to continue in German. We are happy and looking forward and we're super interested in all of you showing up. Most of you that are German who are sitting here are affected. We would like to talk what is in these police laws, what are the most debated ones and the most questionable things that are going to be implemented. We want to talk about the protests and the way that it's supposed to be for proper talk on this. We have a few demands at the end that hopefully overlap with your wishes after the talk. Hopefully we'll find some coming around. We do find the development quite concerning that we saw over the past year. Why do we want to talk about this? There was a few things. We had a few points of touch with this. We wrote about these things. You can read those articles on netspolitik.org. That's not just the two of us, but also other members from the editorial staff. We were invited as experts in different German counties. There was different teams of the CCC that sent out written expert statements. We want to talk a little bit about how the process of that is as well. That was important to us. We want to start now with the question of protests. We would like to start with the positive and then move forward to the more and more mean measurements. I think we had a bit of luck this year because in Bavaria, as we know, there was a county election that led to protests being a little bit more widespread. As you can see, we were quite surprised how many protests actually showed up for the demonstration and that the politicians are reacting to all these protests and this massive protest is showing up. They had to react. This is obviously not the first police law in the federal state of Hesse. There was already one before. But the protests that were recognized beyond the county state, not just in Bavaria, and they were quite big and I do think that the county election, the electoral vote was definitely helped. There was obviously different posters that were quite amusing. The protest was quite big. The largest protest Bavaria had seen in years. There was one day in Munich where 40,000 people took it to the street. In Berlin dimensions, you know, but in Bavaria, these are quite unheard of and I would like to say and we had a few allies that were quite surprising.  It was a quite diverse protest. That was very mentionable within Bavaria. It was all parties except for the CSU. It was unions that took part in this. Even the police unions let out critical statements, which is quite uncommon, especially Jörg Radek, who is part of the head of the police union. That was quite surprising. There was other protests that joined down the line that were quite foreign and strange to me. I have very little to do with the football scene and the soccer scene. There was very well organized soccer clubs that joined the protest also on the street, not just in the stadium, especially in Hannover and Lower Saxony. It was quite surprised by they had the same sure as they could sing quite well. The only maybe disadvantage is only males. But it actually proved to be quite striking and they were quite vocal. I mean, obviously, they're quite affected. She made a word game on the word of punchline that I couldn't really translate into English on the spot. The beautiful thing was that all of this was so positive and so peaceful and everybody was kind of waiting for an escalation to take place. So let's go back to Bavaria, because I'd like to go back to how politicians reacted to these large protests taking place. We have an original representatives, Joachim Herrmann, the Minister of the Interior in Bavaria that explained to us in the past, I mean, maybe the title of the slide is quite telling why people are taking it to the streets. Lügenpropaganda is lie propaganda. I'm going to try this again. Can we hear anything? I have the voice on. It should be working. I'm trying to turn up the volume. It's just an idea. I just thought it's not working. I'm going to try to do this. All right. But you can see there's like a thing. Still no sound from stage. Could I get a little hint? Because we tested this and the plug for the audio is plugged in. And again, I don't know if it's running. I have another idea. I'm just going to try it here. There's now a bunch of yelled advice from the audience. The technician is informed. Help is coming. Also just the title of the slide is one of those famous German compound nouns that is very notoriously difficult to translate. In the evening we only do this as an extra entertainment aspect to us presenting at this point of the night. We're going to go back so that you can hear what the important minister, the minister of good morning and were you surprised how many people took to the streets against your law? Oh, yes, of course. It was quite impressive number and it was more than we're expected to show up and you have to take this seriously. I am beyond all baffled that they kind of took jumped on this bandwagon of lie propaganda and were led astray. Well, what we can see obviously the reasons for the protests were the lie propaganda. And I mean, we have to say add here that on netspolitik.org we actually reported on this and it was quite upset by what he said in that interview. And I actually wrote two debunk articles about what he said in the interview, but he never got back to me on that. I mean, most of you know the final results in Bavaria. Before the elections, you didn't have to come to consensus with the coalition. So Marie found a really good title that the law, the police law in Bavaria is in this extent is not seen since 1945, basically the change in the law and this kind of widening of the law and like in any other county in Germany, that was not to this extent. I would want to talk about now what are the most and especially judiciary like measurements and the most extensive ones. We don't want to talk about everything. We want to talk the ones that are being disputed right now. And I mean, the central point and everybody's read about this is the person, the endangerer. So as a non lawyer and a non judiciary person, you can leave this aside kind of, but you have to look at the thought and the idea that's behind this, the idea of the endangerer that we have people, that we have people that themselves haven't done anything yet. They haven't committed any crime. They're not even shortly before the actual crime, but I have a person where they have two assumptions, one that they want to do and commit a crime and that they're capable of doing and committing this crime. And the when and where of these actual crime is completely unknown to me. And this person, I would like to, I would like to, I have like this, so that this measurements that I can apply to them now. So there's, I have a suspicion there is things such as surveillance, finding out more about this person and Bavaria was the very first county to do so, to take measurements that are actually quite invasive, things such as electronic anchor brace that's, it's basically like continuously locating somebody's and having all times like locate, localizing device. I mean, at this point, I don't even know what that person is going to do and where they're going to do it. And now they're continuously controlling somebody's location. And there's a lot of lawyers who actually said, well, how am I supposed to help prevent something if I don't even know where something's going to happen? Like when are you going to, how are you going to justify taking somebody into custody? For example, I think there's two things that we have to distinguish like in the sense in this case, the sense of this ankle bracelet, this electronic monitoring. Like for example, if you're out on, if you're, if you're let out of jail early and you're an early release, that's completely different. This is potential in danger is like potential threats. And the case, like the judiciary case that we have in this context, like our common sense, like what's coming and facing us now is what's threatening is a threat that hasn't even materialized yet. So you have to separate these two things. And when it comes to electronic ankle monitoring, we were writing about all sorts of experts that were releasing statements. And we're looking at these cases. These cases where there was actual attacks. And there was a text by people who were wearing these ankle bracelets. So actually the practicality of this practice is something that you have to really question. And I mean, obviously, there was also technical problems that they did. They didn't even have they don't even have proper laws on how this data is protected. Like this data that's collected, how is that actually securely stored. So there was a lot of stuff that was done wrong on a technical level of this, like the fact that somebody who is not materializing to be an actual threat, but you're tracking and localizing them constantly is quite disturbing. We brought a few examples. We want to want to refer to things that we've said in the past, like you can publicly find these available either on ccc or at that'spolitik.org. Most committees of the interior are usually quoting experts and there's statements that basically trace back to refer back to constitutional law. We always have to remember that we're not talking about people who actually made themselves conspicuous of committing a crime. We're not talking about people who are an actual threat. They have to be stopped in the act of committing a crime. Yet these people are being robbed from their freedom for quite some time. So people who are basically labeled as a potential threat. Like we're kind of moving in this thing called preventive custody. That means that somebody who's committed nothing close to a crime but could potentially in the future be willing to commit a crime and is capable of doing so. We can take them into custody and this is the most drastic measurement that a state has. To this day, this was something that was usually between two to four days in most counties. But it was in a very long period of time and now when we're talking about the novelization of the new police law, we're talking two weeks, four weeks in Bavaria, even three months. These are completely new dimensions. Like a little anecdote maybe from Northern Westphalia. I was an expert on a committee there where the CDU and the SPD were having a debate on whether or not that person should be allowed to have a lawyer if you're put into custody for a month. And the SPD was definitely demanding that for somebody being put in that position. But the counter-argument in this case maybe plausible was, but why would that be necessary? Why would it be necessary to give them a lawyer? We're not actually accusing them of any crime. So there's two things that we can maybe also say beforehand. The police law in Northern Westphalia, they allow for a lawyer to be consulted and that actually got stated in the mid-December. And the SPD in the opposition in the country actually took this as something to be like their shiny little star that they pushed for that to be put into the law, which is kind of a common right you should be having. In the beginning there was some things that we want to talk about also about patterns of police law. Within the coalition treaty contract like from the current German government, from the black-black-red coalition, this pattern sample or model police law, there's a lot of differences. So within the coalition contract there's apparently different zones of police law. And that's something that you can read up on, but it's always claimed. We say we have different zones of right and law. I can quote from the coalition contract. We do not want different zones of different levels of security. And this is why we need to aim for a model of the police law. And if you look at it more closely and then you look at the aspect that's more preventive, just lock somebody up like that, those are kind of the most significant differences on the different county levels. But we want to talk about this a bit further. There's another thought that we have also from Northern Resfilia, from Jörg Ennochat, who was in the first hearing of the Interior Committee, and he introduces an interesting thought. There's a lot of interesting thoughts from experts in these committees actually on how to do this better and how to execute this better. So Jörg Ennochat says, what happens if afterwards it is proven that this person was not even a potential threat based on rights of reimbursement and how you could, this could be something that you could use as preventive measurements from taking people into custody too easily and too lightly. So if you take somebody into custody, so compensation, so basically introduce better measurements of compensation for when you throw somebody into this kind of custody. So compensation, so basically introduce better measurements of compensation for when you throw somebody into this kind of custody without actually having grounds for them being a potential threat. So it's obviously in a surprise to no one that there's another measurement that is newly added to the law. There's different forms of the state's Trojan horse which we captured in the wild in this image. I don't really want to talk about this too extensively because I think the CCC is working on this for the past 10 years. There's two actual verdicts on this from Karlsruhe and in this discussion in the center, in the statements of the CCC you can find this all the time, the changed situation of the IT security and the IT crisis of trust that we're having right now. And I mean this is obviously something that we can, it's mainly due to the Snowden years. So the commercial state Trojans are obviously actually blackmailing and extorting the government. And I also would like to remind of the legislative period before this one, the state Trojan horse was something that was written into the criminal procedural code. So we have something that was, there's constitutional complaints that were filed for of them for this. And there's four counties now that obviously are not paying attention to any of this and it's kind of like this discussion never happened. And it's the scenes that happen in Northern Westphalia and Lower Saxony through the two of us. And you have politicians in these county parliaments and they've never heard of this debate. And they, literally their debate is literally fed by American television shows. And I mean I have to tell this one story, this one scene and it's just quite telling of the level of knowledge. And it's a scene of with Dura Shura Kapf. She's part of the SPD party in Lower Saxony. And she was making suggestions that weren't, I was making suggestions that weren't new because I wanted to see the reaction of parliamentarians. So I was trying to introduce, I was saying that maybe some machines should be excluded from this state Trojan Horace. Maybe like medical machines should be saved and excluded. And on a judiciary level you should be thinking about how in a law you could shape this and form this. How can you prevent health and life being threatened from this? And I kind of talked about Wanna Cry. And I mean obviously there was quite a few hospitals that were affected by this. And there was no limitations on what a system is. And then Dura Shura Kapf looked at me and she said well yes Frau Quartz, Mrs. Quartz, well what are we going to do? Well if we do this then the criminals can take exactly these machines. Well think about what you just said, like what she just said there. A, her thought process is with the state Trojan Horace you can hack all machines. It's kind of like a cheap movie from Hollywood. Like she has no idea what can German governments and government offices actually hack and do. And the idea that they can hack everything. And if we limit this from a law level that would also be the technical limitation. And I was telling her about different operating systems and for what? Like so for what operating systems this Trojan Horace was supposed to be hacking for. So what's in the official description of the people who are then writing the code base for this. And I mean and also what these governmental institutions can pay for basically. And I mean like in the heads of the people of the deciders. I mean I'm just talking about this one politician. I'm talking about the concept and like the politicians and like their idea of this and their understanding of this and the limitations of these. Like for ten years we've been talking what hacking is in a state context. And then we get to this stage and you think that it's like black magic. And Naya, I mean you guys know. All right. So I think we should leave the state Trojan Horace aside because there's lots to talk about this but we don't really want to do it right now. We've tried to kind of limit the points of argument here. And there were none. I mean maybe we should at this point mention. Yeah no we don't have time. We have to go to the next aspect. We have other technical measurements that are quite disputed. For example the general surveillance. We can't really do it in the classic sense anymore. We have to talk about it in the sense where we have a biometric measurement aspect to this. I mean there's something that they don't really ever distinguish. They blend the two together which are qualitatively quite different. But I mean we had a bit of help. I mean video surveillance per se is something that's researched quite well. And especially in lower Saxony there was results from these studies that were showing that the argumentative line for video surveillance. But I mean honestly without actually having two degrees I can know and come to the conclusion that a camera is not going to jump between a perpetrator and its victim. I think a lot of experts that empirically researched this were usually talking about what video surveillance actually does. And so that was not really our focal point. But what became very clear and what became very clear to me is that in this discussion that with all these police laws they call it intelligent video surveillance. What they mean is anomaly detection or biological and biometrical measurement and detection. I mean this is obviously in this aspect that we have to watch out for. There's a little point in brackets here. Generally all of this is always done under the protection against terrorism. So there's a couple of position party members who actually also. This was right after the attack in Strasbourg with weapons. And okay so the Haberdreuil is the minister of the interior and he stands up and he's like you're not really allowed to say this. But he directly links the passing of this law to this attack.  And I mean this is usually the point of arguments that I use to push these laws through. And I mean our point was usually always that the argumentative line was always the current state of threat that we're living in. And to be honest if we're looking at this this is not something that can be proven out of facts in reality. Continuously all the German federal countries are passing new police laws and there was and there was within the constitutional court there was a change in the law and that affected all the different police laws. And so I mean there's no proof in the circumstances of threat and the level of threat that's risen or that there's more of it now in the current time. And I mean like the usual claim is that these terroristic attacks could be prevented if only our police laws were a bit more strict and were capable to be more elaborate in what they can do and who they can surveil. OK we're going to try to play another audio here. Bear with us. Let's see. I'm going to try this again. Matthias Becker is also a student of law. I do believe that the area that we have so that a lot of actions that are done before the actual terroristic attack we have quite extensive laws so we should maybe critically evaluate our current actions based on the current laws that we have in place and we should maybe look at and evaluate how they're being put in place before introducing new ones. So it's not quite clear to me how many of you remember this was in June but that's also when the first aspects of the parliamentary inquiries into Anis Amri and his attack on the Berlin Christmas market two years ago. All of these things were coming out around the same time and it was very clear at the time that the police actually would have had the ability and the right to look into a lot of these things but they simply didn't use these insights and they didn't actually use the rights that they had to capture an actual endangerer quote unquote despite all these undercover cops being around him. So you can't just give all these agencies more rights because with the existing rights that they have they could have already prevented that but I think we should make very clear that we also haven't heard from anyone except for current policemen. We haven't found a single lawyer or constitutional lawyer who actually thought that was a good idea and I think this is something that you can also look into and that you can research yourself. I also don't think there was a single federal state parliament where they actually had proper empirics for the state's the state trojan. How many devices are we talking about here? How often can you actually not access data? So if they put facts on the table that would be very helpful but it just didn't happen at all basically. If you look at if you look at the way they essentially justified expanding police rights. So but now let's go to media's race. We have a visual presentation for you so you can get an overview of what this looks like and so you can also understand what it looks like in your own federal state. So we want to explain some of these differences between the federal states even if not all of them. So the lighter ones so white yellowish ones are the federal states which you all know from geography lessons anyway which have new police laws either as a draft law or have already decided on those. We have two city states and Bremen and Berlin because both of those states in Bremen they had a police law draft but there was a political fight about it but then it was withdrawn so the police law wasn't changed. So this was also partially due to this was due to successful protests as well. And you can imagine the parties in Bremen present that in slightly different ways but oh well. And yeah in Berlin this is crossed out well Berlin so far there is no official public draft and we don't know what's in there yet but there have been some public statements from the government which basically said in a straightforward way that they want to be Berlin wants to be a model state. It wants to create the first liberal police law and they have grand plans and we're very curious to see what happens there. As Berlin is as you know red red green has a red red green government and the only other red red green federal state through India which for some reason is not on here but it's the only other federal state that has openly said that it's not going to rewrite its police law and it's not interested in including new measures and rights for new measures in its in its law. So this is not chronologically what we're doing here but we just want to emphasize some of these differences between the different federal states and also kind of go back to what the state of affairs is right now. So we already discussed authoritarian and so this law was decided on and voted through on December 12th with the support of the SPD the German Social Democrats with an interesting justification. So the Social Democrats said that we've been part of the government for decades now and now these conservatives are in here with now but we consider ourselves stately politicians. So for five decades we've been writing police law here so now we're also going to be part of this. So they're basically saying that at least they're being part of the process. The AFD the far German far right party didn't vote an abstain from the voting and the entire debate about this they literally the AFD literally just talked about refugees. Their justification was if you don't have refugees then you don't have criminal criminals. So well you don't have crime. One other thing Northarmist failure received a lot of praise for having two hearings about this which was very unusual because usually you have a draft from government then you have one hearing with experts and then you vote on it or you basically usually voted through in parliament maybe with slight amendments but Northarmist failure actually received so much criticism. People really like completely ripped us apart that they really didn't dare to push it through and that they had another hearing after making several changes. That was really interesting and I also checked because this is really important to me. So I was in one of these hearings and I was invited to one of into the second hearing. There were 10 people in total and four of those were policemen. So that means there were five lawyers myself and four policemen and imagine that because when I tell people about this I really think it's amazing in some way. It's as if they're basically union representatives as if you were talking about a new hospital law and you had four members of a nurses union who are talking to you but that doesn't happen in any other area where the people who were affected by a law are involved in such an active way and also are involved in such an disproportionate way. In lower Saxony it was actually slightly worse but we were in hearings on different days and it was 50-50 so basically there were three days with experts and half of these experts were active policemen of different parts of the state and of course they have an interest in getting more rights and then expanding the number of things that they can do legally but just the sheer number in that they turned up in is somewhat strange and also let's not forget that that's also a black and yellow coalition in North and Westphalia currently. Of course the Liberals, the German Liberal Democrats also tried to influence this somewhat and through the changes that were like they really bragged about these changes they were ultimately made to this law before it was actually voted through in North and Westphalia. Okay so we're gonna move did we forget anything? Yes we forgot something in North and Westphalia some of you may have heard about this and there was this Hambacher forced anomaly so this is a very German thing you can Google it we don't have enough time to explain it I'm afraid. Remember this because we actually have a we have a video clip later about this but remember that these activists in this forest who wanted to protect this forest had acid on their fingernails or put acid on their fingers that's something that's going to be very important later on but because you need to do something about that if you need to do because you need to do something not only against extremists but also against activists activists so lower Saxony so lower Saxony had hearings the law has not been decided on yet because something very interesting happened and the lower Saxony in Parliament has something like a scientific service so there's several lawyers who essentially employed by Parliament to give advice to parliamentarians and so they've looked at what the specific committee for issues of the interior and they were asked to turn that into a law and they reaction was basically oh my god and they basically said it and they published a very notable document which is publicly accessible where they basically took this apart bit by bit and I think one of the things that I said earlier about this electronic ankle bracelets is something that they said where they were saying it is absolutely not comprehensible for us what you want to like what which goal you're trying to achieve with these bracelets if you have barely not even an inkling what's going to happen there we didn't know about this concept before but we didn't encounter this in any other federal state parliament so this scientific service is considered very proper and is very well respected but in this case at least they're holding up the parliamentary process and there definitely were parliamentarians that were not very happy about this thanks we just want to mention Reina Wendt who was invited as an expert in one of these hearings on the same day as you so obviously they're not embarrassed by anything anymore and again German you can Google him he's part of a police union and he said some very stupid things in the past so van Wittenberg they in December 2017 they actually changed some things about their police law and there were some things in there including the state Trojan the ankle bracelets and now they have a new draft law but we don't yet know how far that's gonna go but we think that the discussion has changed quite a bit because of these debates and the protests and because of these hearings so we'll see so ah Hessen you can say something about that ah well Hessen I think that was the first case where there was an actual debate because Hessen is an anomaly which is why the CCC was very much involved in this and we have a dedicated website which we used to try to help the people who were voting working answered so what they were trying to do is they were trying to give the state Trojan to a secret service but now they've definitely included significant new rights for police and secret services in their new police law which was voted through in June 2018 and there are several statements by experts and also by a CCC which you can read on our website all of these were very very critical but nevertheless they voted this law through but without the Trojan for secret services then we have this black state so well now it's not black it's black black now since Bavaria voted they have a coalition now but in May 2018 when they pushed this through it was an absolute majority by the CSU the Christian Conservative Party even though we're running low on time there are two things I think that are important about Bavaria here because they were special in several ways I think one thing is the preventative custody which really is way beyond anything that anyone else wanted to do because in Bavaria they said two weeks four weeks that isn't enough if we think someone is dangerous and we don't even know what we're accusing them of we should just put them in custody forever so they have this endless custody which they created which means you can hold someone for three months if you just suspect them of something and then you can extend it for three months several times of course every time a judge needs to look at it but there's no maximum duration of this preventive custody included in the law so we're waiting for the first case of endless custody and the second case I think yeah this is also well Bavaria so they expanded DNA analysis you may have heard that Bavaria is the only state so far that has introduced this idea that if you find DNA traces you want to look into those you want to investigate those so they want to use those to draw conclusions about the skin color of that person and about the geographic origin a bio geographic origin of that person this led to a lot of protests is a very good website which I would highly recommend by scientists in Freiburg who are geneticists and biologists which is called WIDNA.de where they collected a lot of information about this topic and scientifically well founded materials so yeah that's so much worse than this debate about the state Trojan so there's a this website is very scientific but it's very readable so if you want to learn something about this in DNA analysis then I would highly recommend that as well. Okay next there's Mecklenrhoferpermann they don't have a state Trojan as part of their law but at least they have the electronic ankle bracelet and an ability to essentially prevent people from being in the state legally and they had all have had all of that since April 2018 and we're expecting further additions. Brandenburg which is a red red government so social democrats in the left so they have a law they're gonna have the first hearing in one week so in early January 2019 but they're ready really strong protests so this is probably going to be voted on in spring and that's supposed to include a state Trojan but well not yet and then there's Saxony you may have already seen there are lots of signs for one of the demonstrations of course again there's a group of initiatives that's working on this and they're working against us this has been voted through without the Trojan but it has no no so the government has voted it through but the parliament hasn't voted it through yet but it also includes significantly expanded rights for secret services and the police but if you want to have a look at the what this group is doing here in Saxony then you can have a look at all these posters that are around here and now we have what we promised you we brought you an example we already mentioned this earlier oh we wanted to mention one more thing we mentioned the expansion of basically criminal law in Germany and in one way this these revisions of police laws are a response to this expansion of criminal law on the on the national level so maybe not in its essence but generally in its details and they were not even waiting for what the constitutional court might decide in these questions and now we have this very sympathetic minister of the interior of Northarmist failure and let's remember what we said in the beginning the thing that's usually argued is that we have high rates of crime and that we have international terrorism as a threat and that's why we need these laws these very drastic really intrusions into people's basic rights and this is the day when Northarmist failure voted on this law and decided on it and this is the commentary commentary from their minister of the interior and actually that parliament does look like that we weren't quite sure but yeah that's what that looks like so let's try picture and audio so surveilling telecommunications and messengers such as what's up that's really important for example we do this to determine people's identity because 12 hours are not enough if someone has essentially used asset to get rid of their fingerprints so we can't just let someone go because because we can't determine who someone is that's not that's not a rule of law what's happening right now so that's something that should make every everyone feel insecure anyone who's somewhat sensible should know that there are hundreds of people who are checked and for half of them you can't even tell who they are because you just don't have the time that's impossible it's impossible it's impossible to tell to determine the identity of 500 people in in 12 hours because they just refuse to and then you have to let them go but it doesn't make any sense if someone so just to clarify this it's not the evil state if someone is arrested that is absolutely up to you so if that person names their name and their address they immediately free right so obviously that's not what's written in the law but just so you have an idea of the level of the quality of the debate that's happening in these parliaments I was shocked really so two weeks before that I was in one of those hearings and that very parliament and I said that I was very concerned that if you include these measures once that they will be used for other types of people later on and all parties were like ah no no no you this is all of this is rule of law and then have a role is coming in two weeks later and he says he wants that use use for everyone for pedophiles who ligands activists activists well this is about these environmental activists that we mentioned earlier there's a second example here that was less than a week later so the same minister of the interior let someone take a picture and a video of him with this new terror vehicle so we couldn't we couldn't keep ourselves from we couldn't keep ourselves from including this nice comment because someone asked someone someone asked on Twitter whether it also had nice embroideries on the seats someone who doesn't understand that so there was a scandal in Saxony where police vehicles had basically right wing embroideries on parts of their seats and so then here's also have a drill again so he was also asked whether he expected that they might be constitutional complaints and so let's listen to what he said so might you be worried that someone might sue you in front of the constitutional court with this law well of course with these laws someone is always gonna sue and that's why it also it's also smart to write this law in a way that you have the best possible conditions with the constitutional judge that you have the best possible conditions so someone always sues and then as if it was completely normal for you to implement in unconstitutional laws that's an interesting way of presenting the facts and of seeing the world I've said this often in the previous 10 years whenever I discuss ever since I ever since I discuss have been discussing this state Trojan things with politicians and they often say that the and I've often been telling them the first person who breached the constitution was the parliament in these cases and if they didn't constantly implement unconstitutional laws they wouldn't have problems with the constitutional court all the time I am so upset again and we have three minutes left but now we're coming to our core demands hoping that you're all going to join us in these demands and they're going to shout them loudly at the next demonstrations so considering that they're not very concise well and we'll stick to this and I think we have the better arguments we have even more better arguments just because they are called technical devices does that not mean that we are now suddenly agreeing to state Trojans state Trojans are essentially one way of introducing insecurity into people's devices and we continue to stand for this idea that the state should not be hacking people's devices and I continue to hope that we can actually implement this secondly maybe a bit difficult not very catchy to shout at a demonstration which is because it's quite lawyer-y and there's this term about there's this judicial term about how it's something is highly personal but we're saying that this is not just about privacy but it's about your the most intimate sphere so this is a German legal term and I personally think that this very personal this intimate sphere was barely discussed so this is not just privacy this is really absolutely protected regardless of what you suspect someone of and what you're accusing someone of this is part this is something in German law that you cannot interfere with and I think this is not discussed enough so all of these is getting more endure difficult in terms of shouting these things so you need to find alternatives that actually protect people's basic rights there are alternatives are obviously but people are not even talking about these anymore and whenever an expert tries to bring these things up as alternatives to actually hacking someone's device it's people are basically barely listened to that nobody really listens to them and then lastly if there's the thing I think that's really depressing is that there are so many lawyers and there are so many lawyers who are invited as experts and one important thing is the one question is also how can you implement the measures you have in a way that's legal rather than just including technical alternatives and then one thing we also want to get away from is this feeling based and field spaced security policy if there is no evidence that this actually provides for the security and safety then we're not going to implement it full stop and that's also really what's being said right now and if you feel that something is going to make you safer then we also can't do anything about that and you shouldn't be implementing that unless you have these empirics good security policies are not just repressive I think this is also very important for this is not just the question of security politics is not just about what you write into a police law right if you there things that are insecure there are many different ways there are many different ways of making things more secure so not every social problem has a technical solution but you need to go into very different areas to find these solutions and then we have this demand that I think that we don't need to justify in many great ways but we shouldn't have surveillance without justifications even in a technical world this is not something that should have a future such as biometric data other location data movement data these are not things that you should simply simply record and lastly we really want to know how much this costs everything do you remember what this was previously oh I see very few hands uh oh well we need to do that very quickly the total the total surveillance bill is something that was mentioned in one constitutional court decision which basically said the question is how many different kinds of surveillance can be done simultaneously and this is something you can use to counter this argument that it is actually possible to go dark so basically it is looking at how many parts of everyone's lives are already being surveilled but in different ways and in general this whole idea of having these endangers is something that we really need to get away from this whole logic of this whole notion and we just shouldn't tolerate this anymore this idea of having preventative um preventive uh laws and measures so this entire idea that has been implemented for a while that has been manifesting itself for for quite a while now and in danger is a term that's been gotten quite popular and that's being discussed and used a lot and so it's basically based on this idea that there are people who are intrinsically dangerous that's completely counter to the rule of law you can't assume that some person is by nature dangerous because then of course if you think that then you're going to get to the conclusion that you have to put this person behind bars into custody for all of eternity and that's something that you really really need to counter and I think important things like the indivisible demonstrations stuff like that we can't let them we can't let people segregate us but for every single measure we also need to imagine that we could be affected by that and not just these endangers so before we're being thrown off stage um so we're also just going to briefly mention brandenburg because they included explosives in their draft so they were supposed they are supposed to use be used very carefully such as hand grenades so of course you're not supposed to kill anyone or prevent them from fleeing with these weapons but if it should happen then the exceptions are kids and pregnant people and throwing explosives into groups of people and then i'm really like what where did they take a wrong term turn they really can't they can't use these war weapons right for police so well thanks so much for your attention um and just so twitter doesn't explode after this um with comments like oh my scooter was stolen there was um an illegal wild scooter park on this side here so all of that was moved to this side where the legal parking area is so now please another round of loud applause for this nice talk um thanks from us as well um as always please you can you can give us feedback on twitter at


We just have to walk into a room right okay. Hi, we have admin now, so let's get started First I'd like to on behalf of all the debcom team I'd like to welcome everyone to debcom 11. I know a lot of you had long journeys to get here Some of you including long waits at borders to be allowed through Some of you including police escorts from the border to the venue I'd also like to thank all those of you who've come from nearer I know some of you are from Banu Luka itself, and we're happy also to meet you and to Introduce all of you to our community Of course, this is actually the 12th debcon because being geeks. We start counting at zero And I've been kind of addicted to debcom by myself since I stopped West went first at debcom 3 Which was in Norway I then got fooled into organizing debcom 7 in Scotland later on and then I've kind of stayed involved in the organizing team since then So just before I hand over to is this disappearing off my ear Before I handing over to Adnan for a few words. I want to give you kind of an introduction to where this debcom came from So a long time ago Back in the midst of debcom time Um Saffir who's also at this debcom in fact started working on a Bosnian the idea of a Bosnian debcom You can see Ganev here appreciating the idea But despite looking at various options somehow it never quite worked out at the time and then Saffir got kidnapped somehow and taken off to Canada And it was all kind of looked as if maybe it would just never happen, but then the idea got picked up by Adnan So you have to understand here one thing So break once he kind of realized this was something that needed to happen Adnan got to work and he found a solution to make debcom happen and to find the kind of compelling bid that couldn't be turned down Couldn't be beaten by anything else So he started off he just had the idea and then went around with his sales pitches to various people which I guess it worked out of course despite sending Photos with the president and prime minister and science minister and mayor of Banyaluka and however some of us kind of were Skepticals were saying well, yes, they want photos with you, but maybe maybe they just like how you look or something I mean we can understand that but are they actually promising us something concrete here So and then went back to work Background the mayor background the prime minister background the president background all these people Even so I mean partly just due to our Cyrillic and us Serbian and Bosnian and Croatian not being that good Some of us were still a little skeptical So probably actually really the main reason we were skeptical in this case is kind of silly But because it seemed too generous that the government simply promising us so much money and so many things that we're saying well Either is I don't just make it up or otherwise. What is that and I promise them with Kind of worrying so in the end a few months ago Holger and I also came over and We kind of to do a little fact-checking ourselves.  Maybe it's just Adnan's friend who's So yeah, we also we said well come on. We've got to see the venue as well. That's important Yeah, so we got a tour of the building and so any kind of eventually we kind of we're still struggling Struggling to understand how it all worked and we still don't really know what the promises were and how many of us will Actually be allowed home at the end of that conference. Yeah, but But anyway by the end of the by the end of this visit everyone I'm just kind of sorted out that it's it's working so Yeah, I mean just before I hand over to Adnan to say a few words and to thank the sponsors I'd like to say Thank you to all the local team people I mean Adnan's obviously been big here But there's a lot of other people from the region who've been working on this so I don't know maybe all those people can just stand up and Adnan So yeah, I did pick up the bid first for my first up comb was actually that comes seven after Last bid to Edinburgh and I was there only as a spectator. I was actually still using slack word back then I was trying to do, you know maintain packages and all of that But you would need to go through one guy to upload anything which was just insane then I get to debcom and There's this whole community and then it's the idea struck me You know, I need to show this in Bosnia, you know Because we have all these great people really smart people at least and They don't have a clue about this and back then we still couldn't travel and all of that so we couldn't you know Go to the world. I said, you know, I'm gonna bring the thing over here, you know, Bosnia and that that's when idea started Yeah, as more it said it was yeah, it was a lot of a lot of work I think in the end I will try to write it some kind of handbook or something like that for People who are interested in in making debcom for success and future and all of that But generally I'm just enjoy debcom. I don't know what else to say. Oh right and And I would like to thank our sponsors Should I listen to them? Okay? Government being our biggest sponsor.  Creditive. Yeah, thanks So that's it that's it from us for the introduction session Welcome to debcom. Enjoy the conference. The next talk will be here at 11 will be Stefano with our DPL about the status of Something probably Debbie in or so so have fun


And this was just announced today by the organization, a five point action plan from Liberty owners, Joe Psi and Clara Wu Psi. They pledged 50 million over the next 10 years to support initiatives that will benefit black, indigenous and people of color. The plan includes establishing a local social justice fund, supporting athlete voices, creating a more inclusive work culture, leveraging league wide influence and ongoing community engagement. And if you wanna learn more about this action plan, go to www.nyliberty.com to learn more about what was announced today through the organization. It's just another terrific addition to the social justice that is happening now in our country.


Hi everyone, Joe for jazzy's casewrakes.com coming at you with a pack of capstone baseball Now we got a few different dice rolls happening here. First of all, we're gonna give away six capstone pack spots When we sold 24 spots outright, then we'll do the break itself second dice roll Third dice roll will be given away three spots in the five star random number block very big Thanks to this group for making it happen. Appreciate you All right, so let's give away these spots top six after three. Good luck one two and three So it's gonna be Travis even K Ryan Jeremy Joshua and David So congrats to you guys a little buy one get one going your way. Let's get that going so now congratulate They're resting PCS rip oj No longer with us anymore All right, let's roll it randomize it two and a three five times for names and teams one two three four and five The juice no longer loose Eugene down to Ryan two and a three five times for the teams one two Like socks down the Giants. I know trades here, but there's the first half of the list There's the second half of this right there And let's print rip. There's the case right there ready to break when you are We got to do one more of these move a few full spots in the random number block and we are in Brakesville I thought there might have been a hit here that I can hide, but no, that's a nice Jeremy Pena All right, nothing too crazy here But the Jeremy Pena rookie card. It's going to go to Eugene and Houston. It's pretty good All right Now let's flip back over here Gather everybody's names again third and final dice roll and fingers cross everybody because the top three are gonna get these 143 99 Random number block spots. That's a pretty good return So thanks again everybody for getting in if you do not get a spot in the random number block in the serial number thing There is another one posted. Let's try again one and two three times. So top three after three Good luck one two and three So from four through 30 Sad times Robert very close, but no cigar No cigar this time, but I appreciate everybody giving it a shot Top three though happy times because you're gonna get into that random number block for a fraction of the price Stephen K is happy Eugene is happy Stephen K two of the three spots an extra spot coming in handy. That's the way to do it There you go Stephen K Eugene you're in as well Hey, listen if you didn't make it this time We've got another pack to go try next time or listen There's three full spots may as well just grab a full spot lock it in either way you want to do it Jasper's case breaks calm. Thank you