Hi, I'm Mark and this is the service design show episode 100. Let the show begin. Welcome to the special episode of the service design show. In this episode, there is no guest in this episode. I'll be answering all your questions about service design, about the show and even some questions about me. So this episode is fully dedicated to you, the service design show It was actually quite scary to prepare this episode because I wasn't sure if you're actually going to send in some questions. Well, I got lucky because I got too many questions, too many questions for one episode. So if you enjoy this kind of Q&A style format, let me know by sending me a message on LinkedIn and who knows, maybe we'll repeat this kind of style in the future more often. So yeah, four years of the service design show actually over four years. I'm going to talk a little bit about again, the questions that you asked and they will also include some of the highlights of the past four years and also look forward to what's coming up in the next 100 episodes in the next four years. So I'm really looking forward to answering your questions. Let's jump straight in. This question is from Karabo. Let's check it out. Hey Mark, it's Karabo here from South Africa. I wanted to ask you, because I've been listening to your show for the past two years, how has service design transformed your life personally and also how has the business side of things been for you? What has been the most difficult? What has been the most enduring and how have you applied the service design principles to your life and your business? Looking forward to being super famous. There are a lot of questions in this one, but I'll start with the first one. How has service design transformed your life personally? I think, well, you have to understand that I come from an engineering background. I have an engineering degree, a software engineering degree, and design was a thing that didn't exist for me. So when I entered the world of service design over 13 years ago now, it opened up a vast new way of thinking, a way to explore problems, a way to understand the world. So service design has had a major influence on me personally. And I think I really enjoy combining the sort of engineering mindset with a more creative, divergent design approach mindset.  The next question is from Giovanni and he asks, in an evolving service design practice and required skill set, will the show require an iteration on its current format to better serve the different personas in the service design community? What can we expect of the show in the future? Giovanni, your absolutely right service design is shifting, is evolving, and so will be the show. Really soon you'll see some big changes here on this channel. I've been reflecting about the last four years and looking at what kind of content has been the most helpful and will be the most helpful in the next 100 episodes. One of the insights that really emerged is that there's a lot of content out there nowadays about service design, but a lot of that content is quite high level. It's high level content.  I want to help you overcome roadblocks that you might encounter. I want to be the push that you need to take the next step and at the moment that you feel like, forget it, I'm quitting. I want to be there. The show wants to be there to help you get to the next stage because I feel you as a community are doing amazing work. You're creating a better world. You're creating services that create a smile on people's faces and it's really important work so we need to continue to be doing that. So how will the format evolve? I can't tell you all the details but within two or three episodes you'll notice a shift in the content that's here and the shift will be geared towards helping you overcome day-to-day challenges. More practical, more tangible, just to help you get through the day and be more effective, be more successful. The show will help you to win. The next question is from Livia from Brazil and her question is what problems do not suit Serb Design as our approach to solve them? Great question and I think as a Serb Design community we sometimes suffer from the God complex. We've been trained to create solutions to we feel that we have the power to shape the world and come on we can do anything and that is just not true. Sometimes we need to let other experts step in and do their work and there are I think a lot of problems that Serb Designers should not attempt to fix, especially problems where humans are not an important part of the solution. Mathematical challenges, chemistry, maybe even process oriented kind of things and also I think Serb Design excels in challenges, in wicked problems where there isn't a fixed outcome there's just that order isn't a right and a wrong answer. It's not binary. It's a situation where you can strive towards doing something better. There is not a final outcome, final solution, final state. You can provide better services. It's not just a good service or a bad service. You can strive to create better services. I think Serb Design is really well equipped for those kind of challenges and again, there are many, many challenges that Serb Designers shouldn't try to attempt to fix. Let's get away with that complex. The next question is from Mahmood from Saudi Arabia, who has also been a guest on the show. So what do you think are the not yet of service design? What is the thing that's like everybody believes it's very essential, very important, but nobody has figured it out yet? The first thing that comes to my mind regarding this question is how do we make Serb Design business as usual? Design and Serb Design is still seen as a creative practice and it is. And I think we need to figure out a way how we can make Serb Design into a business practice. Doing Serb Design is good business. So how do we move away from that image of being the creative people into moving into these other people that help to build better organizations without losing our identity, our philosophy, our mindset? So that would be what I would say is that not yet. Let's move on to the next question and the next question is from Jane and she asks, which is a question that is really relevant at this moment, I would be interested to know given the current situation, whether you think Serb Design projects could be done entirely online and if freelance Serb Design is working remotely, could be the future? Makes total sense that this question arises now during COVID-19 where everybody is working from home and working distributed or remotely is the thing. So can Serb Design projects be done online as a whole? I'd like to flip this question around like what are the elements and aspects within Serb Design that can't be done online? What are the fundamentals within Serb Design that we need to have a physical presence? And I was thinking like research, doing local field research, which is really important in Serb Design, that is hard to replace. But then again, I was thinking about a project that I did at the studio where we used WhatsApp to do diary studies to do contextual research. And that worked remarkably well, especially when we combined it with using a tool like Miro to sort of evaluate the diary studies and to do basically video calls and a whiteboard. I think there's a lot we can do. To be honest, and I've said this in the past multiple times, I think as a Serb Design community, we've been quite maybe hostile and hesitant to adopt new digital technologies in our field. We tend to see this as a really analog craft where post-its and sharpies and brown papers are an essential part of it. And that if we lose those, we sort of lose the soul of what it is that we're doing. And I get that. But I also sort of regret that I don't see a real hunger for looking for ways in which new technologies can enrich, augment, and maybe even speed up the Serb Design process. So I would be really keen to see new technologies being adapted, adopted in Serb Design more quickly, more experiments being done. And of course, let's not go to a situation where every service focuses on delivering digital services. That's not the way we want to go, because most of the services that we consume in our day-to-day lives are still analog, are still analog. It's just a small fraction that is digital. So let's not get sucked into creating only digital, only services. And again, there's a charm in the analog part of our field. I think the charm of doing physical prototyping, of enacting stuff, of building things out of cardboard, that's really hard to do online, to replace. And that's the charm, that tactile aspect of our field, like having the glue on your hands, working with scissors and cutting cardboard again, making quick prototypes, just thinking with your hands, Lego, like doing stuff with Lego is really important. It creates a different dynamic. So to wrap this question up, can we go fully online in a few projects? But I would be, let's keep the charm and let's keep the power of thinking with your hands, and seeing how we can use digital tools to augment and enrich that. I would love to know, by the way, from you as a community, have you seen good examples of what I just talked about? Leave a comment. I would really love to know. The next question is from Margeau from the Netherlands, who's been a longtime fan of the show. And she asks, what is the biggest change in service design that you've seen in the last four years? And there are two things that immediately came to my mind when I was reading this question. One is that we've had a ceiling when it comes to getting our ideas into the world. I think everybody in the field sort of agrees that we're creating solutions, but we're not creating impact per se. And that is a real problem. So the conversation is shifting around. I don't really like that word implementation, but delivery on how to get service designers to actually create impact rather than just results, artifacts, outcomes. It's a really important discussion to have. I think if we need to have that discussion, if we want to stay relevant, otherwise, well, service design will disappear in a few years. That won't happen. I'm sure of it. It won't happen, but we need to have this conversation about creating impact and focusing on actually changing things. And the second thing that came to my mind, like what is the biggest change in the last four years, it has to also be the rise of internal service design teams or companies building internal service design capabilities. And that relates to what I just said. I think one of the ways we'll be able to create impact is to be very close to operation. We need to help people who are actually delivering the service, creating the service experience, interacting with people who are consuming the service. We need to be super close to them. And we need to make it into an ongoing operation. So service design going in the house is what, yeah, it's a super big change shift. And it's something that I expect will continue for the coming years. So thanks for that question, Margot. Next question is from Radka from the UK. So if you were to create an episode for users and help users understand how to be a really good user to help the service providers improve their service, what would you include in such an episode? Well, I'm curious to find out. Thank you very much. So it's actually flipping it around. How can we help customers, patients, students be better service consumers? That concept has actually been on the show. Alex Nisbeth, I don't remember the exact episode, but it was one of the first episodes, talked about how he worked on a visitor and spectator experience for the Olympics in London, how they were thinking about how to be a good spectator. And one of the things that I remembered from the chat with Alex was that services are co-created. So the experience isn't fixed. And what I would include in such an episode on how to be a good customer and how to be a good user was to keep in mind that you can co-create the experience. It's your at least half of the equation of what happens. So as a user, customer, as a patient, think about the outcome that you want to create. And you don't have full control over it, but you have a really high stake in it. So yeah, co-creation of services is really important. And what kind of outcome do you want to create? That's what I would include in that episode. And let's move on to the next question, which is from Primas from Slovenia. And he asks, Hey, Mark, it would be great if you had a learning during these four recordings of the 99 episodes that you made that helped you to fundamentally rethink how you see your profession, your daily life and the world around you, a renovation that was so radical that you could never go back to the previous state of mind. I had a few and I'll just share one with you here. For me, one of the big renovations was that the perspective that we have on service design on the world around us is just one perspective. Like the perspective comes from a scientific background, from a rational background, from a manufacturing background, and a lot of the assumptions that we make, a lot of the biases that we have originate from that worldview. But there are more worldviews. There are worldviews where there isn't a very strong distinction between humans and nature. And we can learn a lot from that. There are completely different perspectives on what a systemic or holistic view means. So yeah, I think I've become more aware and more humble in the opinions that I have and understand that they originate from how I've been indoctrinated with a worldview that's not per se the same worldview as somebody might have in Asia or Australia or Latin America. So I tried to keep that in mind. Here's a question from Christopher from Australia. He says, I'm a design practitioner from Australia. What have you learned from chatting with service designers from around the world? Does each region have a different flavor? Yeah, the answer is simply, yeah. And it has to do with the fact that service design is so strongly tied into culture. Well, services are actually strongly tied into culture, norms and values, expectations about what services mean and what they should deliver differ around the world. And also, the social contracts, like what is appropriate in certain parts of the world different differ. The conversations that I've had with people from China, for instance, and the way they describe how a brainstorming session works in China is quite different than how it works here in the Netherlands. And also, with people at the conversations that I had with people from Brazil and how the perspective on services is completely different in Brazil than it is in Germany, for instance, that obviously impacts how we work and how we should work to create value. So services are always intertwined with local cultures, with local traditions, with local heritage. And yeah, I like the word flavors, but it can be different words. There is always a local twist to service design. There should be. So please, if you grab a service design book from Amazon and you read about the tools and methods in there and how it should work, always put your own perspective on this, always try to make it fit better to your local context. Don't just copy and paste, always tweak it, always improve it so that it fits, aligns better with your norms and values. So yeah, thanks for the question, Christopher. The next question is from Majek from Poland. The question I'd like to ask is, make it about yourself. Tell us something about you that we don't know. All these episodes were around service design because that's the topic of the show. However, I would imagine people would like to get to know you better. Well, this can be a long episode, but I'll give it a go. I live in the Netherlands with my girlfriend and two kids. Like I said, I have a background in software engineering, so I know how to code and I love to create stuff that makes light. So I still love to code as a hobby. I'm happy that it's not my profession. I have a Polish heritage and I speak the language still a little bit. Don't challenge me on that one. One of my personal highlights in my career has been that I managed to actually become a sports journalist for my favorite football team. So I managed to get myself in between the newspapers, the television stations, and all I did was just use Twitter. That was back in the days, 2009, when Twitter was just coming up, and I managed to do match reports using Twitter and stand next to the players and be amongst the journalist crowd with an official badge. That was a big highlight. One other thing that I'd like to share is this is maybe a good piece of advice for aspiring service designers. The thing that helped me so much in my service design career was that I took improv theater classes. I don't know how long I think it was a year, but doing improv theater has been invaluable in my service design practice.  It helps you to be positive. It helps you to co-create. Improv theater is, I think, one of the most underestimated skills or educational directions, I don't know how to call it, that you can do as a service designer. I know that there are some people from the improv theater scene within the service design community. If you're looking for education, don't go doing MBAs, go to an improv theater class, a few of them. And the final thing, I'll stop. For the last year, I've been obsessed with FPV micro drone, so putting on a goggle and racing around, flying across trees and mostly into trees. That's my latest passion for the last year. Here's the next question. This question is from Amranani, which is a really fun question. Regarding service design and customer experience, who's the father and who's the son? Actually, I think there are relatives or siblings. For me, the way I understand it in my own head is that service design is a very effective way to deliver and build great customer experiences. Customer experience, for me, isn't a practice. It's a field. It's something that we strive for, that we can create. It's a concept that we cannot understand. And service design is, amongst a few things, is a toolbox. It's a collection of methods. It's a mindset. It's an approach. And it's actually a thing that maybe the outcome of service design is customer experience. It is a customer experience that you can influence. You can influence customer experience through service design. So who is the father and who is the son? I don't think that either one is. I would rather call them siblings or relatives. Next question is from my dear friend, Yuri Schilders in Singapore. And here's a really short question. 100 videos, that's a big commitment of time and energy. Was it worth it? That's a really good question. And I won't go into how much or how little time I actually spent on the show. I started the show when I was still running a service design studio here in the Netherlands a year ago. I decided to dedicate all of my time to this global service design community. And was it worth it? The short answer is yes. And for me, it's a definitive yes. Because I've been able and privileged to learn so much from some of the smartest thinkers around the planet regarding service design, heard so many perspectives, really learned that the service design community is a global community. And I think I've gotten a richer perspective on service design, but maybe also a more humble perspective on service design. Because the way we see service design here in the Netherlands is different than it's seen in Peru, for instance, or in Australia. So understanding that those different perspectives exist is really valuable. So to summarize, was it worth it? Definitely. And just as a side note, not a lot of people notice, but one of the reasons the show started out is that I got asked to write a book about service design. And I didn't see myself locking myself up in a room for a year or longer, and then coming out with a book. So I wanted to find a process which was more iterative, where I could get more feedback quicker. So I thought maybe we can do short interviews that I could use for the book. And then I started doing interviews. And I found so much joy in doing these interviews and sharing them with you that eventually the book, even though it was quite far, never materialized. So was it worth it? Again, yeah, definitely. In the episodes of the show, I always invite the guest to ask a question to you, the audience of the show. And I'm going to do the same for me. So I have a question for you. And that would be what challenges are you facing that you would like to see the show help you with? What are the roadblocks, the pitfalls that you see on your road to success? What is the thing that if it would change overnight, would help you to drastically be more effective and impactful as a service designer? Let me know, because that will be the inspiration for the next 100 episodes. How can we help you to be more successful as a service designer and create services that win the hearts of people and business? Let me know. I'm really looking forward to your comments.  So hashtag 100 in the comments. I want to thank you for being part of the service design show community. And I want to create the next four years, the next 100 episodes of the service design show together with you. Let's shape our field. Let's push the boundaries. Let's not settle for mediocrity because we're doing an important job here. We're creating services that make the world a better place. So let's do that for the next four years. Thanks for watching and I'll see you in the next episode.


disappointment James because really and truly this is where it starts for some of these kids this could be dangerous he's gonna get their food. Well he got their first hand holds. Has that been kept? The flag goes up. That's an equalizer. Well I did say if you kept them hanging around that would happen. And let's see the man that you expect Kevon Showtime would be getting the job done doing what he does best and that score goals it's an equalizer one-one he loves it. But it's a good ball waited pass by Angelo Showtime got there first and instinctively passed it in and the official on the far side was very quick to put his flag up which is a sign of suggesting that the ball crossed the line and yes if you look at the left boot of KB


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The Cube at EMC World 2014 is brought to you by EMC. Redefine VCE, innovating the world's first converged infrastructure solution for private cloud computing. Brocade, say goodbye to the status quo and hello to Brocade. Hello everyone, we're back here live in Las Vegas for EMC World 2014. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. This is theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract the civil noise. I'm joined by my co-host Dave Vellante back here at EMC World for our fifth year. I'm excited to have Tom Roeloff, who's been on so many times in all five years. Welcome back to theCUBE, senior vice president. So senior vice president, global services for EMC. How are you doing? Doing great John, doing great. Nice to see you both. Good to see you John. You're an esteemed Cube alumni now that we have over 3,000 Cube alumni. But you're up on the A-list. You run a big part of EMC's business. The services angle is obviously still very relevant. And now with all the messaging, we hear from Joe Tucci on the future. Platform three, always talks about waves. Now we're platforms. But really showing the disruption that's happening. And obviously Goulding going into detail. Million dollar guarantee. Tons of competition on the product side. But the game is still the same with the customers. So disruption is causing change. What is your take on this change right now? And why is this year's EMC World different than others? It's a very interesting time in IT John. I think there's really CIOs and IT organizations are seeing the opportunity to really for the first time be a part of the revenue streams of the business. You heard Joe, software defined enterprise, right? Every company is going to be software defined. The IT organization has a chance to not just be a cost center in the back office, but be a part of how we go to market. Be a part of how we make money in the organization. At the same time, the bar is being raised on what IT is supposed to do for the business at an incredible rate. And so I think there's really a question for IT. How do you step up? How do you become part of the business and enable the business? And at the same time, become much easier to work with than you have in the past. I want to ask you a question about Joe Tucci's comment. He said, enterprise is becoming more software defined what you just said. And it's an opportunity to go on the offensive. If you don't go on the offensive, you can become irrelevant. And basically he said, he didn't say die, but he had another more politically correct term. But I'll say you will kind of wither away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what is that mean? Okay, what is going on the offense mean? Yeah, you know, so what is the future revenue stream that Joe's talking about? He's talking about a software defined enterprise, but it's enabled by information, enabled by data. Who are the stewards of the data? The IT organization should be, right? So we should understand that information. We should understand its value to our customers. It's value to the products that we build. And we ought to be really good stewards of that information. So we ought to be able to manage that information efficiently and unleash it into the go-to-market organizations that is in every company today. That's what the struggle is. I think we got to get to the point where we stop worrying about the technology, you know, the T in IT. We start worrying about the information and we unleash that information into the go-to-market of every one of our enterprises. That's, I think we're part of what we're trying to do. So Tom, you, John and I have talked for now for five years in theCUBE about this topic, which is really IT is a cost center versus IT is a value producer. How has the role of the CIO changed in the last five years? Are we finally at that point where the CIO can really lead a business discussion? In some organizations, Dave, in some organizations, right? I think that the move to IT as a service has really given an opportunity for the CIO to start saying, hey, I'm not just a project office really dealing with technology. I provide a service to you as an enterprise and I want to be at that table and let's talk about what are the services that you need me to go create in IT? And so I think CIOs that are taking that on are starting to say, what service do you need? What kind of data services do you want from me? What kind of infrastructure services do you need from me? What kind of application services do you need from me? And by the way, which of those should I be creating on myself and which of those should I be procuring from somewhere else? And I think the really the most advanced CIOs are saying, I'm not just a provider of technology or internal services, I'm part of helping the organization think about the entire IT landscape and how I can broker services. Yeah, so when we've done research in the Wikibon community about companies moving to IT as a service, the so-called IT transformation, they tell us that the hardest part is that whole the old business alignment discussion, understanding what the business needs and then delivering on it. So today they're delivering sets of applications or maybe they're even delivering servers and storage in some cases. So is the near to midterm future, here's your service catalog, I'm developing these services, here's a brochure, I'm going to market those services to you. I mean, are IT people going to become better salespeople or should they become better salespeople? They're getting there, they're getting there, right? So I think we're going from technology silos and technology projects to a service catalog and that's a good step. Within that service catalog, we're starting with very simple services, server provisioning, storage provisioning, infrastructure as a service kinds of things. Those are frankly baby steps, that's not what the business wants, right? What the business wants is, go give me email as a service, go give me test and dev as a service, go give me ERP as a service. Those are the kinds of services that the business really wants. But I think that service catalog is the right way to think about how I'm connecting to the business. I may start with basic infrastructure services, but let's start expanding, let's get into a conversation with the business about what do you need? So that the IT conversation goes from being, here's what I have and here's what my supply is, I'm going to push my supply at you to a conversation with the business that says, what do you need? And let's work backwards from the business's demand into a service catalog that is more demand focused rather than supply focused, I think that's the step. So how does this take shape in a way that I don't have to throw out all the assets on my book? Yeah, I think there is a lot of technology there today, but we can abstract that technology in new ways right now, right? We don't need, we can allow the existing investments that we've made to roll off of their life cycle to go through the depreciation cycle. We can abstract that with all kinds of interesting new technologies. I mean, VMware showed us the way to do that on the server side. We're starting to see Vipers doing that on the storage side. Nice Ciro over at VMware is starting to do that on the network side. VCAC at the management and orchestration level or OpenStack are starting to do that at the level of all of the data center. So I think those kinds of software products protect the investments we have today and really help us build a bridge into that third platform. Tom, there's a question coming in on the crowd chat from the wild. Does the cloud, public cloud reboot IT? I mean, we're hearing a lot of Amazon. You don't usually hear this from EMC. Amazon is being mentioned in the keynote. Reinvent is their slogan. It's redefined. Does the public cloud reboot IT? Has it rebooted? Has it rebooted at EMC? I think the public cloud is raising the bar on internal IT in an amazing way. And I think it's super healthy for those clients, for those IT departments that are recognizing and embracing it, right? If you burry your head in the sand and say, hey, the public cloud, my stuff will never move there. Man, I mean, we do a lot of work for clients right now. We'll just do a shadow IT assessment. We'll just tell them how much public cloud do they have that's not being run by their IT department. And it's an astounding number in most enterprises. So the bar's gone way up because of what the public cloud is doing. And I think, frankly, it's doing it to EMC, right? I mean, so we talk about a hybrid cloud future. We talk about private and public cloud and how do we embrace that? And even my story is, let's go be the broker of workloads, not just the provider of the internal. So Dave and I, you know, love to commentate and speculate and throw some hate makers out there. We always love saying shadow IT is R&D for IT. Because it's forcing, in the past it's forced, it's always been like, okay, shadow IT, evil, don't ask, don't tell policy. But now it's kind of come out of the closet as, okay, no one really got hurt there. I mean, you know, but it's not something we want to legitimize per se, but accelerates this IT brokering phase where, hey, you can move faster. Yes. We saw Facebook announced at their developer conference that they're moving their slogan from, we break stuff, move fast and break stuff to move fast and have stable infrastructure. That's now the DevOps credo. So as shadow IT, what do you see IT embracing that now and putting it into practice? And can you share some color around that? Yeah, so shadow IT used to be the server under the, you know, business guy's desk, right? That's not the kind of shadow IT we're talking about anymore. Now we're talking about the business person swiping his credit card and setting up an Amazon app dev environment or a Microsoft app dev environment. And launching a business around it. And launching exactly, and creating a new revenue stream around it, right? So I think that's the shadow IT that we're starting to talk about. And I think a CIO has two things it can do about, can do that. You can say, that's a terrible idea. Let me just go show you all the things that are going to go wrong with that. And there are some CIOs, frankly, that take that approach. And there certainly are issues around information risk. I mean, target CEO stepped down today because of the information breach of target, you know, a few months ago, basically, right? So there are some very real issues there. But I would say of the reaction of, I'm going to decide that that's a terrible idea, too, I'm going to embrace that. It's the CIOs that are embracing that bringing that shadow IT out of the shadows and kind of making it a part of the IT. If you're going to go on offense, as Joe Tucci says, you got to have some armor and be prepared for some battle. The target is a great example. They went a little bit aggressive. The data leaked out a little bit. They had some flaws and certainly heart bleed out there. You're seeing a lot of fear and certain de-end out around that. So clearly, the game is changing. So with our last question I want to ask you, share with the folks out there in your words, with all that as a backdrop, shadow IT being religionized, the target thing, the heart bleed, the pressure to drive top line business, what do people need to know about global services now that you guys are doing that's seriously compelling? Yeah, I really think that CIOs have an opportunity here to become a part of the revenue streams of the business. We have a chance to go redefine what IT does in the business. We've been looking for this opportunity as IT professionals for 30 years. I think it's really here. Frankly, it's a pretty high bar. And we're going to have to go step it up to the level of a public cloud provider, to the level of an IT as a service provider. And we're going to have to embrace new technologies, new business models, private and public clouds. We're going to have to get to the idea that we are going to be the brokers of IT and IT services for our business. If we can do that, I think we get that seat at the table that the enterprise wants us to have, that's the opportunity for us. And really that's what global services is all about at EMC, is helping clients to take small steps and ultimately bigger and bigger steps to becoming a part of that conversation for the enterprise that we're part of. Tom Roloff here inside theCUBE, fifth season, great to see you again. And you guys have been doing great. I saw Bill Schmarz was going to have a big part of the practice he wrote a book on big data he's been on theCUBE. And just seeing the work that you guys are doing with customers, the bet on cloud meets big data, which we were kind of skeptical about, 2011, big vision, where's the meat on the bone? You guys have done some great work. Products are filling in, M&A's hot, $5 billion a year on innovation. So congratulations, it's really showing. So thank you. We'll be right back with our next guest here. Live in Las Vegas for EMC World, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, we'll be right back.


So if the crackdown on BDS and state legislatures across the country wasn't already disturbing enough, if you actually care about the First Amendment and freedom of speech, we are now seeing a new wave of legislation intended to effectively criminalize protesting. Now this is in direct response to the George Floyd protests that broke out last May. Now think about this, rather than trying to actually grapple with the demands of protesters and meet some of the criteria that they're looking for, even make an attempt in any way to reform police departments. What are some legislatures choosing to do? They're choosing to just silence the folks who are speaking out against our ruthless racist criminal justice system. And Ron DeSantis of Florida just signed a bill that does that. So as Jake Johnson of Common Dream supports, Florida's Republican governor Ron DeSantis on Monday signed into law a bill that civil rights groups warn is designed to crack down on peaceful demonstrations and criminalize dissent by redefining rioting in an overboard way and creating draconian new felonies for protest-related offenses. While DeSantis and the bill's Republican sponsors in the Florida legislature presented HB1 as a response to the attack on the U.S. Capitol by a mob of Trump supporters earlier this year, critics say the measure, crafted well before the January 6th attack, is in fact a reaction against the racial justice protests that followed the police killing of George Floyd last May. Let's be clear, this is not an anti-riot bill, regardless of what supporters claim Micah Kubik, executive director at the ACLU of Florida, said in a statement Monday. It is a bill that criminalizes peaceful protest and the impact HB1 will have on Floridians cannot be disputed, each and every provision harkens back to Jim Crow. Kubik went on to warn that under the new law, which is part of a wave of similar Republican measures under consideration nationwide, protesters could be arrested and charged with a felony if others at a protest or gathering become violent or disorderly, even if they themselves didn't. According to the South Florida Sun Sentinel, HB1 defines rioting as a public disturbance by at least three people with common intent to mutually assist each other in disorderly and violent conduct. So the implications of this are broad and the text of this legislation is incredibly vague, and that's the point. It's up to the discretion of police officers. They get to determine unilaterally so what constitutes a riot. And if you're wondering how this could be used against protesters, even if they're peaceful, Amelia Pollard of the American Prospect did a really good breakdown of this. So she writes the legislation is purposefully vague, which gives law enforcement even more insidious powers. Almost any type of protest is grounds for arrest. Under the bill, peaceful protesters could face felony charges and up to five years in prison if a rally becomes violent through no fault of their own. ACLU lawyers say the sweeping protection of memorials and monuments is also chilling. Pulling down a Confederate flag, for instance, could lead to felony charges and 15 years in prison. And the bill's protection of violent counter protesters from civil lawsuits means that even if protesters are injured but not charged, they would have no recourse in the courts. So let's be very clear about what this is. This is an anti-protest bill. This is not a bill to stop rioting. This is incredibly transparent. This is an attempt to send a message to everyone in Florida. Hey, if you don't like that black and brown people are being targeted by the police and racially profiled, if you protest, guess what's going to happen? If that protest becomes violent or even a little bit too disorderly, depending on how we define disorderly conduct, you might be held legally liable yourself. Even if through no fault of your own, that protest got violent, even if you were peaceful, you're still maybe associated. Maybe we say that you are mutually assisting people to be disorderly. So yeah, you're going to be legally penalized for that. This is effectively the criminalization of protests to have text that broad anything can basically be defined as a riot now. This is very clearly unconstitutional and this isn't going to survive a challenge if it ever made it to the Supreme Court. But lower courts stacked with pro-Trump judges could very well actually legitimize this. This is obviously a threat to free speech.  I mean, in Georgia, they crack down on voting rights to make it harder to vote. And in Florida now, they're making it harder to protest, trying to discourage people from protesting because those folks who may not want to go to jail or be held legally accountable might think, well, shit, if this protest becomes even a little bit too disorderly, if, you know, the crowd is dematted to disperse and they don't do it on time and the police start cracking down. I, even though I might want to be there, kind of don't want to show up because I don't want to go to jail. This is very clearly undemocratic. This is a threat to freedom of speech. And I'm wondering, where are all of my free speech warriors? Anyone who is in my mentions on Twitter who calls me a pro-censorship authoritarian because I thought that Trump should rightfully be banned from Twitter for inciting an insurrection, all of those folks conspicuously are silent on this particular issue. It's weird. It's almost like freedom of speech means that I can have a Twitter account. But when the government actually cracks down on BDS or cracks down on protests, all of a sudden the usual free speech proponents are nowhere to be found. This is a gigantic threat to freedom of speech. If this were to be implemented in more states across the country, do you understand what this could mean for your right as an American citizen to speak out and protest? This isn't just about Black Lives Matter protests. They're the targets, right?  I don't like these protests because oftentimes they get a little bit too violent. And these folks don't realize that oftentimes these events are peaceful. And then the police end up stirring the pot and make it into a riot of violent protests by demanding that crowds disperse and then they use tear gas. So you might not like Black Lives Matter, right? You may be against these types of events. But guess what happens? This cuts both ways.  This is going to hurt you as well if this gets passed. And right now it's limited to Florida, but this could catalyze a domino effect. Usually when one state does something, other states follow suit. I mean, it happened with pot legalization and that's a good thing. But when it comes to really nefarious, harmful pieces of legislation like the trans bill in Arkansas, how many more states will pass it? Because Arkansas did. There were only a couple of states with anti-BDS laws and now many states have them. So this is just the first of what is likely to be many states cracking down brazenly so on your right to protest in a supposedly free country. This is a grave threat to freedom of speech and anyone not sounding the alarm about these types of legislative attempts across the country now with one being successful, they don't actually care about free speech. They're frauds disregard what they have to say. Because if you care about free speech but you're not speaking out against this unequivocally and loudly so, then you're either incredibly misguided or you just, you don't actually care about the real threats to freedom of speech. This is an attack on the First Amendment brazenly so and anyone who lets this stand doesn't actually care about democracy.


What's going on guys? It's your boy DPJ here today with another Destiny video and today we're going to cover the latest teaser trailer for the age of triumph which dropped not long ago but before we get into that if you want to be in with a chance of winning this resurrectionist emblem simply drop a like and leave a comment down below. Okay first off you may as well take a look at the trailer. You have led us to a new age guardian. An age of triumph and remembrance. We thank you guardian and we will never forget. Okay so what we saw was obviously just a sneak peek to what they will reveal within the stream this Wednesday. Now there isn't much to get hyped about but for sure there is a couple of things. First one being that motherfucking fatebringer. Now we clearly get a glimpse of it in action but what does this mean? Now we all know it's basically confirmed that old raids are returning. From this trailer we see that the age of triumph is a record book. A book where we celebrate and complete all kinds of challenges from the past three years. The Vault of Glass being one of them. Other raids coming too. At the moment no confirmation of that has been dropped but back to the main point of the trailer which is the Fatebringer. Yes for sure that's what we saw but if that thing does not have arcburn in my opinion it's not the real deal. I wanna, we all wanna, we all need it to possess that burn.  Not because of the fatebringer though but because of the vision of Confluence. This is my favorite of Waterglass weapon by an absolute mile. I love the damn thing and surely we can't have one without the other.  Surely Bungie wouldn't do it to us. They wouldn't bring one weapon without the others. Okay so also in the teaser we got a quick glimpse of the record book but we only saw one page. A page which was dedicated to the Hunter. I think we saw a few challenges but what they are exactly we are unsure of at the moment. The page we saw is called the Hunter's Way. Challenges are Mountain Summit, Hunter and hunted, cutting edge, whiz bang, unsuperable, illuminate, illuminate, self-sufficient and who walks alone. Now this being the biggest record book yet I'm guessing there's at least one page for each class. Obviously though they showed a Hunter master race in the trailer that makes sense. Then in the trailer we get a glimpse at more challenges that pop up on screen. Rain of iron show your might, tactical explosive in the dark, your hero on target, race to the finish, shock and awe and doom of orcs. I actually can't wait to find out what these challenges are. Okay so the last thing I want to mention and that's what I believe and hope is a new vanguard weapon meaning we could see new weapons, new vendor weapons across the board. Now when we see the Hunter doing what I think is a jumping puzzle in the vault of glass we see a shotgun on its back. Clearly it's a vanguard shotgun by the logo on the front end but it isn't the shotgun you can currently purchase from the vanguard vendor in the tower as you can see that on screen now. The vanguard logo is in a different place it also isn't the curtain cool which can drop from vanguard packages as again the logo is in a different place so if it isn't either of these is a new weapon well unless there's another vanguard shotgun I am forgetting about or don't know about then I believe that is what it could be. Hopefully we will see new weapons across the board it's just another area we love to explore and discover trying out these new weapons finding the good bad and ugly and in my opinion they are just needed. Unless like I said in the previous video we have access to every weapon that's ever been sold by a vendor via a kiosk that would be epic although it's unlikely but guys that is it the trailer really wasn't that long but still nice to see ahead of the reveal stream this Wednesday but hope you guys enjoyed the video let me know if I missed anything from the trailer down below in that comment section don't forget to drop a like it really does help out and I'll catch you guys on that next one


Sir, can a public prosecutor treat his own witness as hostile? See, the discretion conferred on the court under section 154 of the evidence act is an unqualified and unpramiled one, apart from any question of hostility. The power under section 154 has to be liberally exercised. Whenever the court from the demeanor, temper, attitude, bearing, tenor and tendency of his answers, previous inconsistent statement or otherwise by the witness think it appropriate to grant such permission as expedient to extract the troops and do justice. If the witness does not support the prosecution case, or if he deviates from his own previous statement given to the police, you may refer to, again, Sir Paul versus Delhi administration, paragraph 37. A year 1976, Supreme Court 294. A year 1976, Supreme Court 294. Justice Sarkaria.


Okay, here's a little bit more of a drill, again, a refresher. One mole is 6.02 times 10 to the 23 things. I have a mole of hydrogen molecules. If you notice on the previous video, everything I talked about was hydrogen atoms. This time, one molecule is H2, which means two hydrogen atoms stuck to each other. This egg thing that I'm circling is one H2 molecule. So I have a mole of hydrogen molecules. How many hydrogen molecules do I have? Well, I have a mole of them. One mole of hydrogen molecules, how many H2 molecules? I must have 6.02 times 10 to the 23 H2 molecules. Next question. How many hydrogen atoms do I have in my one mole of H2 molecules? So this may be difficult, or this may be a little confusing, because the first question I asked was how many H2 molecules do I have? This time I'm saying, look, how many hydrogen atoms do I have in my one mole of H2 molecules? The answer to that is 2 times 6.02 times 10 to the 23 H atoms. The reason for that is because every one molecule, every, let me erase and show you this nice one here. Every one molecule, this is one molecule of H2, has two H2 hydrogen atoms in it. So think of this as like an egg. If you crack the egg open, there's two H's inside of every one. I told you you have one mole of these little eggs. So you have 6.02 times 10 to the 23 of them. These eggs are called H2 molecules. However, if you crack them open, I want to know how many H's are inside all of them. Well, there's two inside of every one, so I have to have 2 times as much as the number of molecules that I have. Or if you want to keep going with my analogy, I have to have 2 times as much as the number of eggs that I have. And this, again, if you multiply this out, it's going to be about 1.204 times 10 to the 24 H atoms. So the answer to the second question is what I'm circling here. Because for every one molecule, I have two H's as part of the molecule. This question is very similar to the dozen Toyota Corollas and wheels question that I asked in a previous video. In a previous video I said you have one dozen Corollas, how many wheels? And probably nobody had a problem with this. We said, well, a dozen is 12 cars, four wheels per car, that's 48 wheels total. The same thing is going on here. One mole of H2, that's 6.02 times 10 to the 23 H2's. And there's two H's per H2. So it must be this number times 2, which is 1.204 times 10 to the 24 H atoms. So again, a little bit of a wrinkle compared to what we were talking about before. But this is also something you should ultimately have under your belt. A little bit more drilling, I have one mole of oxygen atoms. How many oxygen atoms do I have? 6.02 times 10 to the 23 O atoms. I have one oxygen atom and one hydrogen atom, which one weighs more? This goes way back to the beginning of this unit when I told you that the average oxygen weighs about 16 times more than your average hydrogen. So the oxygen weighs more. And there it is visually, there's your average oxygen. There's your average hydrogen. You can see that the one on the left weighs about 16 times more. I have a dozen oxygen atoms and a dozen hydrogen atoms. Which pile weighs more? It's this one because this is basically every single one of these oxygens probably weighs about 16 times more than every single one of the hydrogens and I have equal numbers of them. I have one mole of oxygen atoms and one mole of hydrogens. Which one weighs more? Obviously this one because all of the pieces weigh more. And you can look up in the periodic table. The one mole of oxygen weighs about 15.999 grams. And for our purposes, we're just going to round to the narrow-stool number, so 16 grams. So that's the end of the drilling, or at least the end of this drilling. We're going to cover a slightly new topic. We're going to extend the idea of a mole in the next video. So get ready. Get some rest. See you soon.


I'm going to proceed to additions to the agenda. Not for me. Who doesn't have any, Carl, Judith? No, none for me. Review of minutes, January 24th.  They look great. Move to approve. I would second Judith Dillon, select board member appearing remotely. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. I second. I was just also identifying myself, Judith Dillon, select board member appearing remotely. I second approval of the minutes. Thank you. Any further discussion on the minutes? Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. The ayes appear to have it, they do have it. The minutes are approved. Public comments. We're slightly early for our open forum, but we do have people here. Looks like that would like to comment on our ad for forum. So we'll definitely move to open up that article, open forum on 2022 town meeting warning articles and other items. The town residents. So here we go. I see Ty is you. Can you hear me, Ty? Yes. Yes, I can hear you. Okay. Were you here to ask questions or other items of interest on the town warning? I was here just to, if they answer any questions, if there was anything on the warning for our discussion piece that came up about the request to purchase a new truck for the select board support from Calisadee Smote Fair. Yeah. Thank you for tuning in because that's important. But we don't have anybody in yet asking any questions, but can we just wait? We are a few minutes early. Yeah, that's fine to me. We can wait until you get some other people on or see if people are coming even. Right. I see Paul. Hi, Amy. We started without you. I am so sorry. I have a computer and it just, it is not doing Zoom. So I have to, I will do this from now. Just revert back to the old computer. I'm sorry about that. That's okay. We didn't do much. Okay. We approve the myth, but we're waiting for it to do important things for you to again. Okay. Yeah. So now we're in our open forum. So we have Paul, are you here to ask questions on the forum? Well, John, you are staying to tune in. So John, good to see you. We started the meeting without you. We dare to, and we approve the myth, but we held off on doing anything else because of course your Highness wasn't here yet. Oh, awesome. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Of course, you and Amy were a little bit late. Tell it like it is. So now we're in our open forum. Anyone is here who wants to ask questions, we're here to answer them. What's our plan? If we get no questions, do we wait around until the time of the next agenda item on the agenda or do we plow forward? Well, maybe we can do something and then we can do one of our items and then of course if someone tunes in, we'll get that item done and then go to questions. Right? Paul, so can you hear me, Paul? Oh, I can't hear Paul. He's muted. He's muted. He's moving his lips. That's Paul Guare from the fire department. Okay, Paul. I thought maybe you had questions, but you're here to answer some questions. There we go. I got it. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yeah, just to let you know Seth, it is very cold out in Florida. I'm not in Florida. Are you in Florida? I am and it's cold down here. I know. I was just down there, but three of the days I was down there was really nice. It was in the 70s, but... Yeah, I suppose I will start warming up tomorrow, so I'll be happy. Yeah, great. Okay, well, it's a lot colder in Vermont, I'll show you now. It's like eight degrees. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, so let's move to an item just because I think on the resilient, I don't think they're all here though. Seth, why don't you skip that one and go to the treasure report? Okay, good idea. Number E is the town treasure report, but is Don gonna present? He isn't. No. Okay, so we have it to look at. Yes. Okay. So, select board members, let's look at the town treasure report. And I'm looking through, is it the general ledger that we're supposed to be looking at? Yeah. It's a colorful one. A colorful one? Yeah. Yeah. All right, yeah, I see it. There's multiple pages with lots of figures. So there's nothing in there that caused Don to have any concerns if that helps? Yeah. I see lots of figures, town checking accounts, town looks pretty healthy, I wish mine looked like that. Does anybody have any concerns with the first page? How to be healthier at town? No. No. No. I need it. It looks healthy. Going to the next page is the balance sheet. So we have assets listed, we have the money that's in the checking account, the fund balance, anybody seeing anything there that has concerns? I'm basically killing time here and pretending I'm knowing where I'm looking at, but. So the miscellaneous trust fund, that looks good. We have a good healthy account in the capital reserve. I don't see anything there of concerns, like status quo is needed. And then the next page, general ledger, you can cut money in it. I don't see anything there. Does anybody see anything? I'm just going through the pages. So the budget's showing about altogether about 52% expenditure, that's normal. That's normal. All right, in there, everything seems pretty good. You know, there's nothing out of line. Anything that would be more than that is probably something we have to pay twice or four times a year or something like that. Right. I'm content to ask Bruce to convey our thanks to Don for this monthly report. Monthly report looks good to me. So we're going to get done with that item. So that's the town trader report that's done. Thank you, Don. Do I see anybody tuning in? No. What about the consideration of CAI technology tax match maintenance contact? That's a pretty quick item. That's item F. Could the amount go up this year? Oh, it's the exact same as the last two years. Do you need a motion to approve it? A motion to approve it and authorize me to sign it. Make a motion to approve the CIA tax mapping proposal for the town of Eastmont Clear and how the board authorized the town administrator, Bruce Johnson, to sign it. I will second a motion to approve the CAI tax match maintenance contract. I thought it was CIA. I want nothing to do with the CIA. And... Can we get them involved if we want them to though? Well, the culinary... They're probably already mapping for us, but we don't know... Yeah, it's already mapped. Okay. It's a lot of money. Or are there maps? We have a motion and we also have a second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. The ayes, it's unanimous. The ayes appear to have it, they do have it. It takes you to ask. Okay. Are there any town residents that I'm missing here that are anxious to ask questions? I don't see anybody. How about consideration? How about G? Consideration certificate of no appeal or suit pending for 2021 GLAM lists? Can you explain what that means, Bruce? It pretty much says it in the title that there was no BCA hearings last summer. There were no appeals of the BCA hearings and no other action at the state level regarding our GLAM lists. So we're through that period clean. And this is a certification that gets put in with the tax book on an annual basis, if it's true. I move to authorize the chair to sign on behalf of the board, the certification that there are no appeals or suits pending for the 2021 GLAM list. Could I actually just ask a question? Yeah. Apologize. Whose signatures are they that are indicated on that form? I just can't read them. So I'm just wondering who... It's Ross. Yeah. That's Ross Hazel and Chris Racconelli, the two remaining listers. Okay. So they actually were the ones who confirmed that there are no appeals pending. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. So I believe we made, somebody made a motion and there's a second on that. I'll second it. Thank you, Judith. In favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. The ayes have it. We have no appeal. But G, I'm still looking for residents. I don't see any. We might as well go with that. We might as well go to H. Well, just a point of order when you're talking about town residents, I mean, I think members of the press who don't live in the town would be welcome to ask questions as well. Correct? Is that to town residents in the notice here? If you want the press to ask questions, I'm sure they could without being censored by the people. Yeah. I just want to make sure that it's clear to the press that they are welcome to ask questions. Yeah, I was just reading the item was said to town residents. Sure. Okay. Okay. So I think that I don't see any additional town residents on the Zoom meeting that are going to ask questions. So I move that I think that we should go to H which is discussion on town residents that might have COVID-19. Anybody have anything to discuss about the mask mandate? You want to? I think that perhaps we should keep it at least until after town meeting day and then revisit it again. But I think we should have the mask mandate through town meeting, at least to ensure that poll workers are protected, people who are voting are protected. It doesn't hurt, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like I feel the same way. Does anybody else have any comments about the mask mandate? I think extending it another 30 days is appropriate. As for town meeting day and protecting poll workers, the board of civil authority already decided that everybody who works the election will not only wear a mask, but will be vaccinated and boosted. And the BCA also discussed that we aren't allowed to keep prevent people from voting if they don't want to wear a mask in, but we will make every effort to help them vote outside and not come in so they can comply with the mask mandate and vote. Or of course, mail-in ballots are an option when everyone's been mailed to the town and school ballots. Yeah, any further comments on the mask mandate? I moved to extend it for 30 days. You have a second on that? I'll second it. John seconds it. Any further discussion about the mask mandate? I think it's better off to extend it and go with flow and the least of perception is we're doing something that's all good. So all of the favor, please say aye. Guys, care to have it as you have it. That takes care of H. Actually, I have another piece of business related to H. Somehow for our last select board meeting, it was decided in a way that I'm not familiar with to not have an option to come in and participate in the meeting in the town office. And according to the wording on the website, that seems to be the case for today also. And that puzzled me. I thought that was the sort of thing the select board decided. So wondering where that came from. That's a good question, Cobb. I saw the same thing. But then I'm like, well, if she's going and I'm like, somebody's got to sign a warrant. So I came in. Okay. So I will explain where that came from, Mr. Chair, since you're the one that made that decision just so you remember. It's your call. You made it two meetings ago. Carl just fortuitously showed up at the last one, which was nice because we needed somebody. And now that you're back from Florida, you're doing your normal thing. But we had decided to go with that all remote meeting. Okay, so I must have done that inadvertently because I certainly didn't need to do that. Okay. So throw your town administrator under the bus, buddy. Well, okay, so I'll take the responsibility because I'm not feeling that that's that big a deal to say that. But can we unsay it?  Yeah. Yes. How does that sound, Bruce? It's up to you guys. Okay. I think we need to unsay it. Does everyone feel the same way? So next, I mean, I would like to go back to the way that we had it, where we have the option of zooming in. Members of the public have options of zooming in. But we also, as a select board, can show up at the town meeting, town office and people want to come. They can do that too. I thought that the people participating that we're not on select board were not invited to come into the office right now. I thought it was just select board, but... Is that an option for us to have a meeting where we are in person and everybody else comes in via Zoom? I don't know how that works legally. So I will give you my take on it. I don't think it is an option. I don't think it should be an option. And I don't think that's the way the allowance to allow you to do remote meetings only is phrased in the statute that just got passed, the act that just got passed. But I would say for the next meeting, I would ask you to keep it the way it is because the next meeting runs right into the town forum and we do not want to get into that particular discussion. Yeah, so we'll just leave it the way it is for that. For the next... That makes sense. Okay, that works okay for everybody. I think you're right. So wait, let's be clear. We're all on the same page. Leave it the way it is, meaning next meeting, we will not have the option of coming into the town office. It will be entirely remote. And the reason for that is it's a town forum. We're encouraging a lot of people to come out and we would like to encourage them to come out via Zoom, is that correct? It's also the way it's warned. Yeah, okay. So yeah. Okay, good. And then after that, we can evaluate hopefully go back to allowing in-person. Well, can we decide right now that after that we're going to allow the in-person attendance unless we change our mind and decide otherwise? Well, I'm just being cautious about COVID numbers. Yep, okay. I'm just, I just think that going by the data data is the most valuable way we can go forward. But we just need to assess that at that time. You know, if we're having 1,500 cases a day, we're not going to want to do that. But if we're having a couple hundred a day or less, then we're certainly feeling better about opening up the meetings. Okay, so talk about it again next time. Yeah. We always do, yep, okay. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Good question though. Because I had the same one, it's like proof. But I guess I approved it, so. Okay, so we're 10 minutes to seven. What does that put us on our forum? So you get another 20 minutes. All right. Hey, Jeff, do you know if Joanne is coming? I expected that she was coming. I expected that she was coming. I expected that she was coming. I expected that she was coming. I don't know if she had a problem getting into the zoom meeting. I sent an email. You mentioned the link was updated. And I didn't hear anything back from her. So I guess I wouldn't worry about her attendance at this point. Well, let's do. We can do a couple more things and kill a little bit more time. Before we have to go to the resilient road to me. So if she is playing to attend. A little bit more closer to the time. So the next item here is I appointment is called counter-trash reflection committee. I don't know if everyone's aware of what's happened on this pressure selection committee. Nope. So what happened is we had Ryan. Who is the son of a vegan on the committee, but the committee felt like it was conflict of interest with certainly, you know, it could be perceived as office of interest pretty easily. So certain members of the committee felt strongly that we need to have Ryan off the committee or Ed to withdraw his, his application. So it was decided that that's the thing to do is not have Ryan on the committee. So Ryan agreed to step off and game boroughs has agreed to take his place if the select board agrees to do so. So because it is the responsibility of the select board to appoint the members of the selection committee, that's why it's before you today. So there you go. Game boroughs will replace Ryan on the committee. She's not going to have to do too much, but there is going to be a couple more meetings when we go through the applicants, resumes, et cetera. And it is valuable to have a CPA on that, asking the questions that need to be asked. So there you go. So I guess I'm asking you to approve game boroughs as you feel comfortable with that so we can move ahead with having a CPA on the committee. So moved. We have a second. We have a second. Amy seconded. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I could go ahead with item B with the work session on 2022 town meeting in town form. Which would take care of some time, which I think we should do. Go ahead. The garden wants to tune in to the tree. On the work session for 2022 town meeting and town forms. What is there specifically that we need to discuss. The first thing you would have discussed is the input you got from the public. Yep. So absent that. Yep. It's sort of whatever you might want to do in terms of setting up for the, the next forum, the actual form. Right. Okay. Okay. Does anybody have any thoughts about questions or points that aren't clear? Is that's basically what happens in the town form is residents ask questions. And we try to feel those questions the best for our ability. And sometimes we have to go look something up or. For instance, on the fire truck, which I think we probably ought to talk about. Because we've got Paul where here in chief Ty Roland. And that's something that they would anticipate some questions on and I would too. Where are we at on that. I, as what we're asking is, there's two thoughts on that actually. Well, there's a couple of things that we should talk about one is, it's on the town morning. It's a, how much was it 130,000. 133,333. Okay. I'm in full support of this. I think it's a modest ask to the town considering the amount of money that truck costs. And I'm in support of taking it out of the capital reserve. But what does everyone think about that. That is the question. I think we've already said what we think about it. We put it before the members of the public to vote on it. I'm just trying to kill time. And ties here so you could ask the question. So if you had any questions to ask him, I don't have any. I just thought it was something town residents would ask about, but we don't have any. We have a gig and I see. And you had some questions on the truck. Can, can you hear us?  Yeah. And actually emailed me some questions about that. And I forgot to call them back. So. Maybe I could ask interest questions now, but he's, I can see him on the zoom, but I don't, I don't think he's hearing us. For me. Question was. Doesn't show up as an asset for the town. And the answer is. It won't because we're basically, just giving the money to the fire department. Everyone clear on that. It's not a town asset. It's, it's going to the fire department. We're just giving them the money. So, um, that was the answer to the question. So anyway, I guess we should move on to other questions that we. Could have on the town meeting one. Does anybody have any. Don't hear any. So maybe we should move to the. Shade three. Plan. What do you think? Oh, we've got. And we have sand. Okay. Here. Um, alias. Paul. Paul alias. And we have sand. Okay. Here. Um, alias. Paul. Paul alias. You got Jeff. Here. And we don't know where. Joanne garden is going to tune in. So. I'd say we start the tree. Discussion. What do you think? I think that's a good idea. Joanne. Realize that. It might, might start early anyways. Okay. I'm assuming she's not coming. Okay. So you and Paul. And. Let's talk about the. The. Preservation plan. Sounds good. So I think Bruce put it out on the website. Well, I'm sure he did. And I guess we. Paul and I. We'd like to. Answer any questions. That you have about it. I think we're planning. The hearing, which would be March 7th. Um, and that's a hearing. Between the. Free warden and the select board. To receive. Comments from the public on the draft plan, which I think has to be. Available at least 10 days before the hearing. If I recall correctly. Um. We, we sat in on your last meeting. Um, and after that, I did. Do some revisions to the plan. Including. Completion of. The three appendices. That. Have tables indicating. Which trees. Um, Our town planted trees. Um, which trees. Are in zones. Where all of the trees would be considered. Shade trees quote unquote. Under the statute. And a third table. That would be a tabulation of any. Reaches of town road where. There are no shade trees. Um, And as we mentioned before. Um, we'd start out with basically. Um, any trees that are four inch diameter. Or larger would be considered shade trees. And subject to the jurisdiction of the, uh, the tree warden. So. The public may have. Objections to the plan. Um, They might recommend, um, Some changes to the tables. Um, to include more trees or fewer trees. Um, but. Um, Is there any questions? Uh, We'd be glad to, Glad to answer them now. Yeah, I do. I got a couple. And everyone does actually. Well, go ahead. Go ahead. Carl, I think your hand was up first. Okay. Thank you. Um, yeah, it looks looks like a good report. Um, I think you all for pulling that together. Um, very comprehensive, very clear. The only disconnect for me is on the appendices. Uh, C and D. Uh, they are named in the report. Um, the appendix on the, the beautiful parts of town. Uh, has, uh, some places listed the, The ugly parts of town appendix is, is empty. Um, and it, um, It's just, there's no explanation for why areas are included in the one appendix or, or the other. And I was wondering, you know, maybe the names of the appendix appendices, those two are clear enough as to what they're about that you don't need to describe that, but maybe in the appendices themselves, you could put some information as to why those designations were given to the areas for the gorgeous parts of town. Um, Will there be a map that goes along with this? I didn't see a map. Um, No, I don't think there's any plan right now to have a map. Um, we've talked to Joanne about, um, Having that kind of information digitally available on a map. Sort of, um, Like our ash tree inventory information, adding another layer that would show the zones in town, uh, where all of the trees are protected basically. Um, and the exclusion areas. Um, we could add some language in the appendices. I mean, there's some in the, in the text, certainly. Uh, the reason the, um, ugly quote unquote part of town, uh, stuff is blank. Um, that was sort of just a placeholder in case people, uh, wanted to present information to the select board and tree warden. That, uh, justified not including trees on that section of road or. If they, If there are any trees there now, and they wanted it to be, um, indicated in the table. Um, That's possibility too, but, um, Um, it's sort of something that we're looking at as being organic. You know, and coming back to the select board. Annually or bi-annually and adding things to the table. Um, we did the work in the center. Um, under the, uh, Arbor Day grant, uh, to plant trees and did the hedgerow work. And that's why that's reflected in, uh, the table that, uh, includes trees that are smaller than four inches. Um, so. And I'm sure that you have from the extensive paperwork that you've generated in, in this project and the grant applications and so on. I'm sure you have language already as to why the center area, uh, was singled out, why the area by the school was singled out. Uh, you could just put that in the appendix for each area and it would, would help people understand it better. I got a question that's in line with you to, to start with. You were thinking of a map that was specific to the areas that are going to be designated. Yeah. Just so that it's, you know, understood.  I think all. So, but it might be, um, helpful just, you know, similar to the, um, ash trees, you know, just having plots. I mean, on the existing, obviously maps that we have, but maybe just plotting on that. Um, that was. I don't disagree with that concept at all. But what I do. What I'm reading into this is you could actually make a blanket. Um, policy where all the trees over certain side. On all the road would be under the jurisdiction of the tree. That's how I'm reading that. That's correct. Basically what this is. Right. So there wouldn't be a map because everything would be designated as a shade tree in the town right away over 40. That right. That's right. I'm not saying I support that concept because I don't actually but I do that. I do support the content in certain areas in the town and certain trees designated as shade trees. But if you're going to make that blanket, um, rule where all trees over four inches under jurisdiction of the tree one that serves circumventing the statute that they change, which gave back some control over trees that are in a landowner's land that are within the town right away. Did it not? Well, yeah, but not for that reason. I don't believe. You know that there was a lot to having to do with landowners cutting trees in a town right away. And then the legislature changed the statute. Just gave back some control of trees in the town right away that are on landowners land. Right. That correct. Well, by default, yes. Right. So now. If you enact this rule that it looks like it's before us. That gives back all the control of the trees in the town right away over four inches to the tree ward. Yeah. Which is the way it was before. That's the way it was before. Right. But I'm saying the statute got changed for a reason. And I know some of the landowners. They were impacted by that old rule. It went to court. And, um, They landowner one. Because they cut trees. It was a farmer. Actually they had a field. I know all about it. Yeah. Okay. Now as a farmer that sometimes cuts trees and then it's cut right away. They're dead, et cetera, et cetera. I'm a little resistant to. Making a blanket rule. That would circumvent the set. That's all. You know, it comes to the point where we haven't had to hear any, et cetera, et cetera. I'm just saying. Can you, can you describe in brief what happened with that farmer? I don't think everybody knows about this. It had a field and a lot of trees along the edges of the road. He cleared the trees because they're on his land, but they were actually in the town right away. And at the end of the, and then somebody came along town, state, whatever. And they sued him for, I'm not sure how much maybe Paul can tell us, but it was like a million bucks or something. It was expensive. He was a farmer. They went to court on it and. Didn't the landowner win. Because the town said it was. Unsightly. It was in. A view shed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the end of the day. I thought the landowner won. He was a dairy farmer by myself. He thought he was improving his field, which he probably was. So that's, that's a long and short that I know of now. Maybe I don't have all the facts. Maybe Paul. Well, I don't, I don't know all the background facts to that. And I haven't kept up with what's happened lately. But I'm not sure. Last time I knew it hadn't finished. Okay. Okay. So. The reason. For having that in the first place. Is so that you. Don't have. People. Who own the land. Indiscriminately cutting stuff that is. Potentially affecting the roadway. You know, in the right of way. So it's just a matter of how you discern whether. The. Person. With the trees. Should be able to do any darn thing they want. Even though it may affect the town's right of way. In a less than desirable way, let's say. Or whether. They. Work things out with. With in this case, the tree would. You know, and it's. We run into these kind of things every day. It seems like this. It depends on your point of view. Whether it's a perceived problem or a real problem. And I think a lot of that depends on. If you've got a tree warden, it's out to get the. Get in a trouble. I, you know, you could have. Issues if you don't. Well, then they're probably doing a town of big favor. Okay. So thank you for all on that. You probably have some information. Yeah, I wanted to clarify something. Follow up on something that you had said. You had suggested that this plan. Is in contravention of the new statute. That's incorrect. The statute specifically provides for the creation. Of these plans. And provides for the mechanism that. And the procedure that is spelled out in this plan. So the statute, whereas before you didn't have to adopt a plan. Now you have to adopt a plan. And this is what has been done. And that's perfectly consistent with and compliant with the new statute that was enacted in response to that legislation. So I just wanted to clarify that what's being proposed. Is consistent with the statute. The other thing, the other question I had regarding the plan. Is looking at page four. When you're talking about the processes. So process. Excuse me. Cross disease not inconsistent with 24 BSA chapter 67 for removal of, and you say section a disease, dying or dead shade trees and B, any shade trees that create a hazard, public safety impacted disease or insect control program. And then that you kind of have a paragraph underneath. That you're saying consistent with 2504. The tree warden will authorize without a public hearing. The removal of shade trees that fit those three categories. What are the three categories? Cause you just had two headings. So I, I wasn't sure what that referred to. And. Looks like we're missing a category. Is that the three categories? I wouldn't say so. That would be one of them. Oh, I think it's under B. And those three categories of creating a public hazard. Disease trees or trees removed to comply with state. Or federal law. So that could be clear. Okay. So is that whole paragraph actually part of B? Should that be part of B instead of it's kind of hanging out on its own? I think so. Just a little bright, Joanne. I see that you're here now. Hi everyone. I'm sorry to drop into the zoom world, but I'm Joanne Garten. I work with the urban and community forestry program. And it's great to see all of you. I've met all of you. But that a, A and B, those words are actually from the statute itself. So I think where it starts to say consistent with the essay two, five, oh, four, the tree wouldn't will authorize and then get some of the three categories. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff, but I'm guessing that. That. The East Montpelier committee wrote that and either. It's kind of a typo and should say to referring to A and B or, which are verbatim, I think, from the statute. Or I don't know. I don't know why it says three. Yeah, I think. I think both under those paragraphs are responding to the two. A and B, the language that's in statute. So I think the two paragraphs that are under A and under B. Should be indented to reflect the fact that they are responding individually to A and B, if that makes any sense. So that last, last paragraph. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The Judith was noting should be indented. So it's clear that it's a response to item B. And that's the three things. Public safety. Yeah. Or state law. And similarly, similarly, Jeff, you're saying that the paragraph that begins a tree warden will identify diseased that that paragraph. Is referring specifically to disease dying or dead shade trees. Yeah, that makes sense. Like there's it up. Okay. Any more questions for Joanne or Jeff. Or Paul. Will the hearing process be, and maybe I glossed over this and might, might have missed it, like the hearing process. Where's that spelled out. Before doing March. Do we set the date for that tonight? You can if you want to. It's your hearing. So yeah. So the hearing could be on the mark seven. That's what you're saying. Yes. That that was the first state that we could reasonably fit. We couldn't do it on the 28th. As Jeff said, you need a 10 day notice period. So the first meeting you have coming up that we could do a hearing with was the seventh doesn't have to be on the seventh. It can be any date you want. Yeah, I'm not here on the seventh, but I guess I can zoom in. As a matter of zoom in anyway. That's the board. Or what does everyone like to do as far as that hearing go? Can work. Yeah, that sounds fine to me. Sounds fine to me. It's fine with me. All right. Do we need to know we aren't. Do we need to make a motion to bring this to the public in a hearing or would just do that by consensus? I would just do it by consensus, but I would ask you to decide if you want to have the hearing before the meeting. I yet six o'clock or something like that, or do you want to have it at 630 and start the meeting after. I think we would need to make a motion. The statute provides that the tree warden and the legislative committee of the municipality may adopt a Shaitri preservation plan. So I think maybe we need to approve it or authorize it. Ultimately, yes, but right now we're just setting a hearing to get it. Okay, so. Okay, got it. So after the hearing in response to the hearing comments, we would do that. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Do we have a lot of stuff on the March seven. Don't we have to create the new board and everything and do any appointments or anything or what? You will definitely have the organizational aspect. My guess is that you won't. The March seventh meeting is actually quicker than normal. Usually we have a little more time. In March. This will be as early as it gets. So I don't know that we'll have all the appointments ready to go at that point, but yeah, that's that meeting is for the organizational thing. It's usually when we have the state police in, I don't think they're going to make it on the seventh. I think they'll be there on the 21st. So. The one on the seventh. Yeah, there isn't that much going. Yeah. So the question is what time. So I say we do it during our meeting. Don't start to meeting early. Yeah. I agree. Is there a problem with holding that type of hearing? The way that we held our forum tonight. And just holding it. And if nobody comes talking about other select board business, do they have to be separate in time? I think you probably would in this case, since it's a mandated hearing, you would close the hearing and move on with life. Which are worth following. I think that there will be some comments. I mean, I've got some. Yeah. I don't think it'll be. I think it's. I think it's important and. I think we'll have comment. If not from the general public. It'll be from us. So. I'm anxious to attend the hearing and ask questions and. You know, I'm anxious to attend the hearing and ask questions and ask questions. Etc. Etc. So. I say we will, we have the hearing at seven or whatever. You know, embedded on me. Move on. So that works for everybody else. I'll be there. Yep. I will be somehow. Okay. Yep. It just, we just need to, when we're noticing it, we need to make sure to publish the plan. I think that does the preservation plan. Thank you. Thank you everybody for tuning into that. Now we don't have our forum. Is. Do we have anybody that wants to talk. Ask questions. On the forum. And they don't have to be residents as. Carl said. I'm not seeing that. Paul was already gone. And Ty Roland for tuning in. Oh, there's Paul. Thank you, Paul. Being on hand to answer questions. We will have another forum at the next meeting. Which is what's the date on that February 28. Yes. Yeah. Everybody 28 will have another forum. I hope it's better attended. I guess that's it for that. It's it for the forum. For the shape preservation plan discussion. Yeah. Have we done. Done the whole thing. Other than the other business part. Right. We didn't have any other. Administrator report zoning administrator report. Yeah, I'm reading. I'm not really sure. We did it. Once we're done. Administrator report. Be trans access. We notice anything to talk about on that. No, it's just same old, same old. Yeah. Then the rest of it is. The dates. Planning commission has their hearing on Thursday. Yeah. Okay. Really. That's all that's going on. Okay. So I don't see anything too exciting on that. Anybody else have any comments. Thought. Everyone's looking a little more. Maybe in April, we can begin to. Invite input on how to spend our COVID funds or talk about how to elicit input on that. Actually, I'm glad you brought that up. Because I had a couple of questions about that. Can I ask them? Before. So I was reading, you know, various articles in the paper about various towns. Because the rules are out. And it sounds like they're. Allowing more use. Originally thought. So. One of the things I was reading into it was. I was thinking about was the town road or the town garage. And look like that could be an approved use. Am I wrong? So at this point, I would say you're still wrong on that. But not wrong on that, but. You're not right on that. The concept. However. What we're still waiting for is VLCT to. Finish its vetting. Of the very intriguing. Concept that we can take a one time charge off. On revenues. To the tune of $10 million. Which of course is more than we have. But what that implies is that we can take the entire ARPA. Funding. As lost revenues due to the pandemic. And what VLCT is trying to. Track down. Is what the back story on that is. FEMA did this. For. Storm. Categories. A few years ago where they gave a. Automatic 5%. For any administrative work rather than having to prove it. You could just take it. And. The state. Push that hard. We accepted it along with every other town. And then on the backside, we actually had to prove more. This was in 2017 for that wind event. We had to prove more than we did from the 2011 events. So it was a. Apparent. Good news thing that turned into a nightmare. And what VLCT is trying to. Prove to its own satisfaction and then give us the. The end result. Is whether that's going to happen again. Where it appears that there's a. Essentially a free money check off. But there will be. A reporting requirement that. Will essentially take away the value of the. Of the free revenues. And so they're still advising that you do nothing. Hang on. Because there may be very good news coming. We may be able to. Essentially free this money from. The bulk of the federal rules. But we don't know for sure. For sure yet. Okay. So. That's good advice. And. Thank you for that. I'm still. You know. I'm. On my radar. And. I think that's an important project. If we can funnel the money towards that, it would be great. So. So basically what, what I was implying was that if we get that check off. You can funnel that money to your capital reserve fund. And hold it for projects like what you're talking about. Yes. Right. It won't have to meet any of the so-called categories that you've seen so. So far. Right. And that would be fantastic. So. We'll just keep our fingers crossed and see what happens. Does that work for you, Judith? So. Is there anything else that we need to go over? Not seeing much on the. Select board. Is there anything else that we need to go over? Not seeing much on the. Select board memo here. Anybody else have anything that's burning. A burning desire to discuss. It's like we could call the meeting. So moved. Usually called a motion to adjourn. A central reminder, but. No one seems to be. In that motion. I second that motion to adjourn that John made. He didn't really take it. Kind of. All of the favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. And by. Hi, everybody. Hi. Good to see everybody. Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah. You too. But we are going to be done early. So. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.