Post every year will do incident analysis on specific fires and broadly across all fires across the state. And then we pick out the key learnings from those and they become things for the following year. So if you like a look here and say warnings and advice, well it comes as a no brain and we did warnings and advice really well last year, but there was a couple of things about them. We did lots of them and you could say we had quantity, we didn't have quality as much as possible. And so the general feedback from everybody and probably including us, we got bombarded with warnings, great. See if they did lots of warnings, but how about more timely, more accurate information and also we broaden it out to say multi-lingual people, broader area that we could tap into as well. And if you like that whole warning space since Black Saturday has almost been an iterative or an improved process, every year we get a little bit better so we'll review it. So I suspect warnings and advice will come up every year. In terms of kind of control arrangements, we're still working towards coming together as a different agency so we work to one and the fire service commissioner talks about and I think he will talk about one agency, one force if you like, working together. So what we're trying to do continually is saying same standards, same processes. So when we do go it doesn't matter what badge is on your shirt, we all have some confidence and respect for each other when we come together. The transfer of control.  So we manage that ourselves, just internally if you like. What then happens of course is as they get bigger and bigger and bigger, we transfer control out of our agency into the bigger sector, what we call level threes if you like. And there's still a lot of issues about when the trigger points are when we say here we are, we're giving the responsibility this fire from the chief officer to the fire service commissioner. So if it's a rubbish bin fire, house fire, it stays with the chief officer and within the CFA command structure. Gets much bigger than that then we transfer control over to the control arrangements of the state. When that happens, how that happens is still points of conjecture that we continually wanting to improve on. Some people, you might find this hard to believe, don't want to hand transfer over. I'm running this job well, I don't want to give it to the state. I've got enough resources here. What rights do they have to take my job and that would never happen in CFA etc. And on the other side of the screen, you do have people at the high level going, hang on, this job's getting big, we should take this one over. So there's still a little bit of tension there about when, how and what. So there's a lot of work being done in transfer and control. Traffic management points, again it's really a contentious issue that comes up probably every year. And with traffic management points, it is things like an example would be, we got criticised for instance for not allowing vets to return in to pass a fire line. But we put up barriers and said no one goes in there because it's dangerous. We had lots of stock particularly in the Gippsland area that were injured and not well that really we needed to get vets to, to properly euthanize or to deal with vets. So it was something we'd actually not on our radar, not called business. We hadn't really thought about it. The DPI said to us, are you buggers, you need to let us in. So okay, we need to change our practice. We need to provide a bit more clarity about who does and who doesn't get through traffic management points. So there's a bit of work happening there. All learnings and there was about three others that came up from previous years that we've worked on to try and improve on for this year. It's great to be back again for what is the preparedness for the next summer. If you look back though, we had a great summer last year. It was a very long summer, it was a very hot summer and it challenges us a lot. There was a lot of fires that were controlled in the initial stages which was a huge success and only a few that caused us significant concern and major resources. So if you look at that and say, well done, we now need to build off that and ensure that we are right for the next summer. The Bureau is clearly indicating it's got the potential to be a fire season of significance but it's much broader than that. It's not just about fire, it's got to be about heat, it's got to be about windy days, it's got to be about the dryness that we've got and fires are obviously one of those primary issues that we always face in Victoria. Primacy of life, protection of our people, has got to be critical. Likewise, safety of our crews and safety has got to be upfront, everything we do. There are two messages but there's more than that. It's about us working together and we clearly say now we work as one. It's a simple set of words but from the initial tack, all the way through to what will be a major incident, we need to work as one and stay together, work together, understand, respect but do it together and I think that's absolutely critical. Also there's a lot of opportunities that we'll have this season. Some of them are identified in the briefings and exercises we're working through now. Evacuation, traffic management, issuing information to the community and warnings, commander control, initial attack are all critical parts of what this exercise and briefing series of events across the state will bring but it starts here and we ask you to take this home for you to your brigade, to your SES unit, to your work location, take it back and make sure what you talk about here you take back to the others and they need your support to do that. So it's not the end of something, it's the start of the journey. I hope it's not a long summer but no doubt in Victoria we'll still have a summer and every time we have a summer we have those issues of fires or heat issues to deal with and I say let's do it together, we're a great team in Victoria, let's keep the great team being great and I wish you all the best for what will be a challenging but I've got no doubt a successful summer season. So you see some key themes that continue to be reinforced in that. We work as one, commander control, transfer of control, same sort of issues that we're almost themed up for us this year. The one slide that we're putting for this presentation that hasn't gone around the state is this one here and it's only because of a currency perspective that we often get asked well what's the season going to be. Short of having a crystal ball I guess no one can really tell us with any definitive outlook of what it is going to be. I usually say this that in Victoria we are one of the three documented scientific research, worst wildfire, bushfire, whatever you want to call it places in the world and it is because we have good rain and what have we got good rain. We have a hot center of the country that provides hot northerly winds and a wind change that comes through about 5.30. So if you put all that together on any given day we can have a fire. So it's really hard and everyone's having a chuckle at you and expense trying to do a he was out the front literally five minutes ago standing under umbrella pouring down rain and trying to give everybody a fire safety message and it really is quite difficult but the reality is and we've seen even early in the season I think yesterday or the day before quite windy, quite warm, had a couple of fires that have run but if you look here the predictions are warmer summer days expected for eastern Australia and also average chance of rainfall for Victoria dry season expected much you can read that for yourself. It's particularly the Bureau called splinters because they sit on the fence but the average chance of rainfall what's that mean you know like this bizarre but anyway the reality is for us we expect we will lose houses at some somewhere in the state now it's like Russian roulette I can't tell you where that is I can't tell you when it's going to happen but on our forecasting on similar years lead up years we've lost houses in in some parts of the state so it's not unlikely that somewhere in Victoria particularly during January January February and March we will lose some homes we will we've already had some significant fires and I'm sure we will continue to have more fires as the season goes on it's just the way of the world it's just where we live and what's going to be what's going to happen and what we can expect in here. Just to reinforce that we've now got a briefing from Tony Bannister from the Weather Bureau. Hi I want to talk to you about three topics in this preseason fire weather briefing first of these is the climate outlook for spring now a couple things we tend to look at first of those is a thing called the ENSO and what that is is you may have known that in terms of El Niño and La Niña and that's in a neutral phase so really that is is no real help to us at the moment the other thing that we look at that's in the Pacific the other thing that we look at is what's happening over in the Indian Ocean a thing called the Indian Ocean Dipole and since May that's been in negative territory and what that usually means for southern Australia is that over the winter spring period that it usually gets more rain than normal and what we've had over winter so far is it has panned out pretty well that most of Victoria has had more rain than normal so in terms of the outlook for Victoria this Indian Ocean Dipole which expected to last into mid-spring plus the above average sea surface temperatures around Victoria give an indication that for the central parts of Victoria is a likelihood of more rain than normal and also a corresponding likelihood of less than a maximum temperature okay now we'll talk about the second topic this is you may remember last season that we introduced forecasts for the next day at 25 locations giving weather information at the time of maximum fire danger now what has been decided is this will become the standard part of the standard product set for the next four days and whereas in previous years you've we've given you forecasts at the time of maximum temperature what we were doing now will be from this season on is give you information at time of max fire danger this is because we're now looking at all our spatial and spot location forecasts at time of max fire danger so this would become our standard forecast for the next four days the third topic i'd like to talk about is about a system called metai metai is a one-stop shop online weather briefing tool that will display current and forecast conditions over Victoria as well as Australia that you can bring up on your web things like current you can bring up temperature rh wind speed direction even radar and satellite imagery and looking out into our forecasts you can bring up things like wind or temperature or rh if you're used to using google maps then you'll be pretty comfortable with metai in terms of zooming and panning and putting layers on and off so i hope this information is useful in your preparation for the season and the bureau will keep you updated right through the season it's interesting when you listen to people like tony in in hindsight or retrospectively to say he actually said it was going to be a colder and wetter and i think that was realized wasn't it the coldest period of time so it's interesting looking that but they're now also forecasting warmer from now on in so if they're if they're consistent with their messaging then that's that's the way it's going to be um some doctrinal changes that we've been working on and i won't just conscious of the time now that state command and control arrangement bushfire believe it or not there is a document that all the chiefs sign up to to say that we work as one as a one team emergency management team arrangements emergency management team that is effectively what used to happen in the dim dark age is probably only a couple years ago is that we would go in with a lens of just putting out a fire so we would go there and say look our job is to put out the fire we pack up we go home and it goes for other incidents as well what we've identified only took us about a hundred years but is to say events such as a fire or an emergency event affect so many more people so at the time of an incident we set up what we call an emergency management team so an emergency management team may have local people represented on it they may have council if you if it's a particular fire in an area we may have recovery people we may have vets you may have people that would be impacted and straight to mind would be the power industries you know osnett sp osnett and the gas companies are now saying we want in we want in your decision making we want to be part of the journey so we've set up we call emergency management teams and they're on site or they're in icc so you can have them at incident at region or at state so incident management emergency management team or regional emergency management team or a state emergency management team and their whole idea is to make sure that those other parties that are not directly involved in the firefight have got an input or a knowledge about what's going on so it's a two-way street if you like so that process has been refined to ensure that we have local representation then there's a view now to say it's not just utilities it is about if there's a fire in your community is it the mayor who is representing your community on an emergency management team the j-stop arrangements and very quickly what we identified last year is we keep building systems and so we've said right we i think last year we said we've got 40 level 3 imt's across the state icc's across the state and on any trigger point day recommendation out of the royal commission you must cfa desk dse parks big mfbscs have x amount of people in there and so we've gone i-beauty okay we've got 40 times 40 people therefore we need literally thousands of people on on standby on any given day trouble when you look around there's no one to go in trucks because they're all in i-nt's at manning and manning it i'll now embellish that little bit but a real example was that we had the fire in uh first fire last year in the western part of the state and we couldn't resource the i-nt why because everybody else in the state were going no no i'm manning to make j-stop i have to have these people in place and i'm not letting them go so we couldn't move people around the state so we've done a lot of work to say let's cut down the number of imt icc's would have to man from 40 to 20 let's increase the footprint they they look after if something happens in that footprint then let's move resources into accommodate that particular area so it's a real rethink about how we man up um this is just readiness this is not when we go to war this is just say tomorrow is going to be a bad day we need to have people in place by 10 o'clock and this is the number we're going to have in place so it's had a complete overhaul and and review and a lot of times i've already talked about the guidelines for operations traffic management points during bushfires i won't address that again um aims for what and i what you may or may not know is that we run across australia uh new zealand um this part of the world this aim system the Australian incident uh management system uh and and it's just a system of managed so we're all on the same page now the police are just starting to buy into it um but the beauty for us is if we if we run out of people like we've had 20 people 20 imt's and we run out of people we can go to new south wales can you come and help us in our imt's we can actually go to america and say can you come and help us in our imt's because they run nims which is just their national incident management system so it's very similar so there's this compatibility well we've reviewed aims to accommodate some of the police's concerns when we didn't have intelligence we didn't have investigations etc and so it is about an effort of the fire services to say hey this management system is a system that we should use right across the country and after september 11 that the us set up the department of homeland security and they said everybody council workers every emergency service organization will run this system because if you know the history of september 11 it was a complete complete cluster and we're still still trying to come along that journey so things that have changed in aims in the review of it we've clarified that is the incident level i talked about incident region and state we've added flexibility so it can be flexible unity of command which means it's not agency it's about everybody in the country working together as one and again i won't go through them all other than to say this year we're looking to pilot the intelligence section which is about getting information turning that information into intelligence that will inform people like our warnings our people like our fire f-band that fire behaviour analysis people our planning people um to try and get more intelligence in we're going to pilot that this this year that's about all we're doing in regard to aims for but this change is happening right around the country interesting enough my little footnote is to say it's not really well resourced to implement it so those big changes we want to all change and we go to training and say well you've got to change your manuals you've got to change your practices we've got to change so it's not just saying we're going to do this we've actually got to change a lot that goes with it i think we'll move on from that one warnings and advice interesting again in the warnings and advice that um location based telephone alerting so the change this year is a i'm not sure all the uh all the all the telcos are on board last year it was only telstra this year we've got octas and vodafone so they're all on board last year most of what i think i think i'm not sure what it was implemented but certainly this year it's location based so we can draw a polygon around an area and say every mobile phone in that area will get a message where it used to go to the billing address so even if you lived in that area um but we're in sydney on holidays you'll get your warning and if you're on holidays in that area you wouldn't have got a warning where now we can actually do that polygon and everybody gets that warning in that particular space one source one message effectively this is to say that when we put a message out all the agencies put the same message out with the same template and the same look about it and so there's no inconsistencies if i go back to well unfortunately 2009 and probably not their long after if you look at the cfa web page we'd have uh different information we'd have completely different information we look differently that it didn't have the same information so now we're saying no there's one avenue one source one message from the agencies there's consistency across the state in what we're saying and within that i talked about the multilingual before the templates i'm going to spend a little bit more time on the templates and community fire refuges um there are three there was always a woodpoint which is effectively a mine and there was no others this year we're piloting three uh refuges two in the era of ranges and one in um um murable murable shy i think it is it it damaged a long way anyway black blackwood is where it is so we're trialing those as well and awesome will actually um activate sirens community alerts islands it will um open up refuges and do that type of work for us so it is all interconnect these are the templates the first thing that you probably see out of that is the color so there's actually moved in the modern ages and got some color we can put into it but make it look a bit fancy you'll also see it's it's multi-badged but the key changes here in in these uh these um templates and they are templates are they um give more specific information so last year the templates were almost standard and if you look them and occasionally you do you almost got to the stage where you knew where the one line of information was and the rest of it was really generic information whether you went for a rubbish bin advice or a warning template etc they're all very generic this year for the people entering the data in there's prompts that will say quite specific we want to get to the stage where we where we're actually saying Joan there's a fire in your spot and our advice is you go down this road turn left and put yourself there if you're not quite specific now that's a real challenge for us to get to that layer of of detail when we're providing information to the community that's probably objective and again as i said before these things continue to improve as we get more specific information and again you can see we've still got some still have some generic information about safety but the other the other interesting thing here which is good are these hyperlinks so if somebody now you don't have to go look up yourself you can just link on if you want more information out about a specific subject it will take you there pretty simple sort of stuff but compared to where we were last year's probably more continue to improve the services in this particular area the other thing again about standards of warnings and or we debated where we put this up but it's just it's interesting to know that what the warnings just don't aren't someone saying oh look i reckon it should be this or i reckon it should be that what you see here so if i take you down to the grass fdi between 50 and 99 if it's impacted a fire of within say two to six hours then you issue a watch an act message so it's quite specific to the warnings and advice people it says like if you think the fire is going to impact if the danger is this and it's going to impact on the community in this amount of time then this is the warning that you need to go to there's no subjectivity to it there's a little bit a little bit in there i guess and the subjectivity is well okay fire behavior people how long is that fire away and when will they be impacted and is it direct flame content is it smoke those sort of issues but a lot more of the subjectivity so we can actually quite specific in win and what we give people in a timing sense so it's just sort of interesting to know and have that background and what you don't see up there interesting enough is the evacuation so that's determined by the incident controller and and that's never really been that triggers never really been pulled in anger but it has in in training any questions on any of that aircraft we're getting towards the end of it now a couple of things that we didn't talk about out front one of the chiefs in fact driven by our chief was to really focus on hitting fires hard and fast and changing some of our ways that we do our business the general thinking is here that if we can get them out early and and resource them heavily we may make some mistakes and over resource initially but if they say fires from extending into weeks and in some instances 2006 2003 in months then it would be well and truly money well spent within the state now weigh that up against being counters and have different views what we've decided this year to do a couple of things pre predetermined dispatch expanded in other words on a trigger point day in a high-risk area sorry let's go back a step historically if I wanted an aircraft I actually literally have to ring the phone or pick the radio up and ask for an aircraft and this is the aircraft I want what's happening this season we started at last year and it's been expanded this season no if it's in a trigger point day and it's in a high-risk area that's I almost the battle of Britain you know that the helicopter people we scramble themselves and they jump in there and they can deploy themselves now there's some safety issues that we need to make sure there's aircraft officers air attack supervisors and that whole support mechanism so it's not just as simple as it sounds but those sort of safety procedures are being put in place to ensure that happens the other one is a bit of a wanky term in my view is is this wolf pack concept which is they'll hunting packs is all it means now it sounds like we've been watching too many tv movies but for some reason it's stuck and whereby in a couple of locations now you will actually not get one aircraft you automatically will get two or maybe three aircraft and they will be much more effective working as a pack to go and hit the fire an interesting side note I've got an email from we last year we tried a new helicopter up in sea lake because of declining volunteerism a big crop area etc and so and really positive feedback where the aircraft are getting on scene able to at least slow the fire up would give time for our trucks to get on scene so being really really effective and quite quite impressive almost embarrassing why we haven't done that or thought of that in the past cycles for the the aircraft look we have on average about 50 aircraft to pre-deployed across the state all strategically located sometimes we go at a state level we'll go look tomorrow you saw Tony we're actually able to say to us tomorrow it's going to be the western district at up until three o'clock but as it moves over it will become Gippsland we're actually able to go right we're going to put a crane we'll put it in at Esiden once it's finished there we might put it back down in La Trobe valley we can move subtly some aircraft but again you've got to have air attacks you've got to have fuel tankers you've got to have nominated air bases and etc that goes with that so a change in the way we do our aircraft but we're always being challenged about how effective they cost a fair amount of money do we get value for money etc so we need to continually justify that E-MAC functionality probably I reckon one of the best things that CFA and DEPI probably one of the first things we've actually got together and developed a product collaboratively together that I think I think someone might be in the room as one awards it's practically used and interesting it was designed by the user at the end of the day by our people and DEPI people and effectively it what the E-MAC does it allows you to go on and there's overlays on it so fire point B it'll tell you in a spatial sense where the prediction of that fire will be at a certain given time so we had that last year and you can see you can it put a bit of a clot up there for us and it'll take the big change this way is consequence analysis in that footprint it'll actually tell us how many schools if there's a pine plantation if there's a nursing home if there's a you know a structural risk in the area whether that's just a touristy area what are the things are actually in the area so when we're planning we go you know it and it can be I didn't know there was a scout camp there in the front of this fire and we can start to focus our energies to the consequence of this particular fire again a pretty simple step but I reckon for us pretty exciting the Fleur imagery interrogation it's integrating the aircraft so we can validate some of that with the aircraft and checked I didn't say in the aircraft we've got an aircraft this year for the first time we'll just do have a gimbal on it that will actually just take photos that we can actually make some decisions from not from the air but it'll feed it back into the IMT so we can get live understanding what's happening with the fire so some really good stuff happening in this emap area and is available to everybody that pretty well works in an IMT or in the field you get that sort of product that we can put into the field if I go back when I first started we never got maps the key messages the last slide our job is the protection of life the state's job is the protection of life and part of that life is that we don't put a value judgment on it is also or includes the life of our people so if you like the statement you might have heard in some location everybody comes home now when you make those sort of statements sometimes our people get pretty pissed off when you take a risk averse approach and we've made decisions before we're not putting our people in our people will love to go in but sometimes they don't go in because they're coming home and sometimes that's a hard decision to make but nonetheless where everybody comes home and our job is to protect community and don't get me started on community safety because we'll probably save more environment on empowering communities than we will ever in a fire truck but I won't go down that track safety of our crews and safety of our people is everything we do as a number one priority and we work as one integrated team look you know we still still haven't nutted that one but again if you look at the bigger picture if I go back not long ago there was literally fights on the fire ground with different agencies and you know we're a wet agency DSE or dry agency we'd put fire out and they'd come along and light them up again and so there was blues between the we don't do that anymore you know we we actually do get on believe it or not there is a healthy respect for each other when we sit in an IMT whether it's a CFA patch or DSE patch we don't care as long as the person has the competencies and the qualifications to the to the job that's all we worry about we work together we train together we all get on pretty well but we need to improve communications we need to improve systems etc so that again will be a an iterative process that we go as we improve


Aldermen do are all the documents signed Everybody's committees Before we get started with the meeting mr. Franzens here Would you step up the microphone? He just wants to address the Flag box that's placed up by City Hall Goodly I Got this idea from our state newsletter the DFW and I proceed to get a Mailbox from the post office then I went to mr. Shram to see about putting it someplace and We had quite a discussion where to go and then finally went to community bank And they gave me permission to put it down there And I had some posters made up like this Which I'm going to be putting around the city at convenient locations So people to remind people of where to put their flags old flags retired flags There are a lot of flags being flown in the city right now. They're worn torn that should be replaced and Sheboygan press was good enough to put an ad in the paper and it turned out to be very good results The first week we collected about 150 flags to date we got it I Would say roughly about 230 240 flags that we have collected out of the box so far and I Wanted to thank them mayor for letting me come here tonight just to show this He has one that is going to be put in City Hall. His wife has got one to put it to Y And I have a Couple met Washington Square Pigley wiggling went out sheboygan falls. I Put one out to Walmart so far Mark and save and pick and save and there'll be a few more that will be distributed. I just started on this this last week So I would appreciate all of you people to continue to let the people know and Hoping maybe we get an article in the press that a later date sometime again showing what to do with the flags Thank you. Could you leave a few extra copies for us? Yeah, and I think some of the Alderman will probably take them with If you want Alderman in the back, please I Believe you about four super Alderman Warner. Would you take those please for us we have Here's five That's all I have to say. I want to thank you very much. Well. Thank you. Thank you for The help in getting it started. You're welcome. Thank you Okay, Pat well said We will call the notice of the 20th regular meeting to order Pat. Would you call the roll, please Bowman? D-Berg Eberg Doyle Manny Moody Perez courts Sholes Stefan D Van Akron T Van Akron Vanderweel Wonderman excused Warner when you're 15 present forms present Alderman Van Akron Thank You your honor. I would move that the minutes of the previous council be Be accepted has entered on the record We'll just second at the minutes of the previous council meeting be approved under discussion Hearing none all in favor opposed motion carried Pledge of Allegiance we have two young gentlemen from St. Luke's with us tonight from troop 805 would you lead us please in a pledge I would guess you two are here for a merit badges evening or work. Which one is that? communication Okay, excellent. Thank you for coming Hearing pat that's been canceled. Well, just stated on TV. Okay, the hearing schedule for rezoning property located at 1212 Pennsylvania Avenue has been canceled for this evening resignation Steve there's a letter dated December 10th to mr. Richard Meyer of the Business Improvement District from Kerry Rower dink advising that he needs to resign from the Harbor Center bid board Because he sold his business and no longer eligible to be on the board of directors. We can accept in file and Sustated today Hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Greg Wegeman to be considered for appointment to the Business Improvement District to fill the unexpired term of Kerry Rower Dink whose term expires 9704 signed by the mayor that lights over okay public forum panel Okay, Alderman van Aekron Yeah, I would move that all our oaths Be accepted and filed all committee reports be accepted and filed all our oaths I mean all committee reports be accepted and adopted all resolutions be put upon their passage Been moved in a second all our oaths be accepted and filed all our seas be accepted and adopted and resolutions be put upon their passage Except 2013 If you look at that that will be referred to finance Alderman moody Thank you, your honor. No need to pull it but on 12 for I'm just questioning. Why do we have this document referring to color general and color generals and falls? I think we had one on the last Which one is that 24 12 for 24 24 I'm sorry 24 I Receive these Notifications from the court and from the state and when they come here I don't pay attention where the company is located. We've always submitted them to counsel Somebody else's can enlighten me. I mean what action do we take? We don't take any action. It's a piece of information because of the I Will imagine the Laying off of people, you know There are people without jobs now So the city is always made aware when industries go out of business and we have a big influx of That's my understanding. I don't know all right. I believe they do have a division that's in the industrial park right on the corner of Taylor Drive and Right where I work cracker. That's it. I think they do have a vision division and a building in that are in the city limits there Thank you, all of them chose Thank you, your honor on 2021 I'm I don't need to pull it for a separate vote. I just want to comment on a portion of that The number two item on there. It's an arrow It comes from finance from the arrows from partners for community development ink Stating they will be applying for community block grant funds in 2003 Mr. Fuentes serves on the civil service commission in the past I've said in some of their discussions and from my observations I believe he has served the city very well and has the best interests of the city of Sheboygan at heart I did feel uncomfortable during some of our discussions last April when they were being criticized There's some of the things that and Accusations that had been made he sent all of us a letter and several pieces of course Correspondents indicating that all issues have been resolved and closed at this time and that correspondence and a folder from partners their annual report I Think it's worth reading Partners may have been unfairly criticized before all the issues were investigated We need to be very careful about how we present our arguments So as not to create a situation that could be considered libelous Mike huts has some information concerning training Of on court of ethics which for those of us that have been on the council for a while Could use a refresher on and the newer people some initial training. I'd like to ask Mike to maybe Tell us about that or touch on that training that available I believe Alderman Schultz is referring to two notice of claims that are in the Risk management docket yet one notice of claim from partners and one from mr. Fuentes As Several years ago probably more than several years ago I might have been three or four of you here We had some training put on through cities and villages mutual Training for all the alderman regarding liability code of ethics under our code Which I believe is chapter 2 of the municipal code And then I think in the state statutes. I believe it's chapter 19. We haven't done that for quite a few years and I could set that up again. I believe I had spoken to Alderman van Akron as chairman of committee the whole about the possibility of setting up that that training Sometime in the future probably about an hour worth of training put on by the cities and villages people Which I will do at at a future meeting when you call it Committee the whole meeting Thank you if there's no other discussion everything from 2021 through 2029 excluding 2013 Will we put upon his passage Pat? Would you call the roll please? D-Burg E-Burg Doyle Manny Moody Perez ports Schultz Stefan D-Van Akron T-Van Akron Vanderweal Warner Weninger Bowman 15 eyes motion carried 2030 to be referred the two RO's 2031 and 32 by the city clerk submitting a communication from Mark Hessler requesting withdrawal of his rezoning For 12 12 Pennsylvania Avenue and the city plan commission recommending filing documents Those can be accepted and placed on file Alderman Warner Thank you, I make a motion we place the documents on file Move the second that we file the two RO's under discussion Hearing none all in favor Opposed motion carried 2033 and 34 lie over 2035 through 45 to be referred 2046 through 48 will lie over 2049 through 53 to be referred 2054 by public protection of safety recommending that denying beverage operators license 5857 based on findings of committee There is a correct the document I believe on all the Alderman's desks Yes, your honor I move that the RC be adopted and and approved But I'd like to check first to see if Mr. Zeman is here to speak in his behalf Apparently hasn't it's been moved in second that the RC be accepted adopted Under discussion hearing none all in favor Eberg Doyle Manny Moody Port's Schultz Stephan Devin Akron Teevin Akron Vanderweal Warner Winninger Bowman D. Bird 15 eyes motion carried 2055 and 256 will lie over 1919 resolution by Alderman Schultz and T. Van Akron and Berg authorizing entering to contract for what obtained obtaining employment Employment practices liability insurance Alderman Schultz Thank you, your honor make a motion to resolution be put upon this passage We'll just send a resolution be put upon this passage. Is there any discussion hearing none? Would you call the roll please Doyle hi Manny Moody? Riz Ports Schultz. Hi Stefan Devin Akron Teevin Akron Vanderweal Warner Winninger Bowman D. Bird Eberg 15 eyes motion carried Before we get into the other matters. I would like to back up for a moment. I miss this This morning I got a email from Alderman Warner and he just requested that We make it known that his nephew through marriage Alderman Warner is that yes, sir Nathan here has not been found yet And that the general public was ever watching this evening if you check your yards your garages your sheds, whatever you have look around And just look around your your area and if you would see something, please let him know We don't have a picture of him Alderman Warner. I wish we did we could Put on camera, but we don't have a picture of him this evening But was ever watching and Alderman in all departments if you just walk around your yards and just look in any buildings or anything on your property Please notify Alderman Warner immediately if you are fine So thank you Okay, other matters 2057 we'll go to finance 2058 to finance 2059 Resolution by Alderman Schultz T. Van Ackrenberg authorizing the retaining of outside council the federal and state court for tempest case Alderman Schultz. Thank you. Your honor. I make a motion to resolution. I need to ask for suspension Okay We moved a second for suspension. Is there any discussion?  Thank you. Your honor with that I make a resolution. I make a motion the resolution be put upon its passage Move this second resolution be put upon its passage Their discussion hearing none. What did you call the roll? Manny? Moody Perez Hortz Schultz. Hi, Stefan. No D. Van Ackren. T. Van Ackren. Van Van Der Wiel Warner Weninger Bowman D. Bird E. Bird Doyle 14 eyes one no motion carried Steve 2060 is a Resolution authorizing the mayor to execute the joint powers agreement for shaborgan county and city shaborgan 9-1-1 emergency systems That will go to public protection safety 2061 is a communication from Alderman Schultz submitting a list of contributors to Terry Van Ackren's state campaign Alderman Schultz. Thank you. Your honor I'd like to read this communication It pertains expressly to Meeting this is being is this being referred or is this yes, do we discuss referred Documents on the floor then Is it our policy generally not generally not but it has been done. It has been done. I'm good What is our rules? Thank you, your honor before I get into it this Cover for the communication. It should read addressing the ambulance service. That's really what the communication is I've talked to the city clerk. I will stop in her office tomorrow. She's going to make a new cover for it and I'll sign that and it'll be Stated the way it really should be with that I would like to read the communication This communication is not going to make me any friends But I think it says some things that need to be said I have no malicious intent in this I want to make that perfectly clear with that I would like to read the communication it is about the ambulance service contract orange cross versus other About last July about last July after meeting between some city officials and county officials for discussion about ambulance service I just said to the mayor I think if you wanted a contract with orange cross you could have one today After more discussion and some time passed I said we are going to make this contract so difficult orange cross will not be able to sign it and here we are today Two weeks ago Alderman of inaccurate said in several minutes basically we offered them the same contract and refused to sign it I am not sure it is the contract so much as it is the distrust that has been created between orange cross and the city The city keeps putting new challenges to orange cross first It was first respond first it was response time once that was somewhat diffused Someone put together a spreadsheet questioning on site time That is how long the ambulance was on site before transporting One reason the city went with an ambulance service was that our then police the ambulance could not provide Paramedic level service they basically would load and run Now the paramedics are able to provide a level of treatment on site in the air criticized for not being en route to the hospital sooner It is not so much contract changes as it is no one trusts or respects anyone anymore We need to reestablish the mutual respect and trust that we once had for each other The citizens I talk with want the ambulance service to remain with orange cross and Strategic fiscal plan meetings the fire department is represented by the chief and or his deputy chiefs to discuss the proposed ambulance contract and offer suggestions closed sessions Meetings the fire department is represented, but orange cross is excluded as long as the fire department is actively interested in providing the ambulance service They should be treated as any other contractor interested in doing business with the city They should not be part of developing a contract for a competitor. They want to replace I believe chairman of the strategic fiscal plan committee Alderman Terry Van Akron should have excused himself from all discussion of the ambulance contract to avoid any perception of influence There is a website listing campaign contributions through August 26 2002 the final report is not due until July 31 2003 Attached as a listing of fire department personnel from Green Bay to Fonda like to Sheboygan and labor union individuals Individuals I believe are sympathetic to the fire department being awarded the ambulance service How do I know they are sympathetic? Union leader Ben Cooner has attended several strategic fiscal plan committee meetings as recent as a meeting Monday, January 6th He stated I don't know why you are talking with orange cross when you have the fire department to provide ambulance service While the police department had the ambulance service there was not one recorded lost time or workman's compensation injury Total to date Sheboygan has incurred workman's comp injuries involving firemen Responding as first responders totaling $200,000 the most most recent being $50,000 no other first responders have similar records if the fire department were to be awarded the ambulance service and first responders What would be the effect on the city's workman's comp claims? With the city need additional paramedics to replace injured paramedics and at what cost? The fire chief says he can't take on the ambulance service with only adding three personnel Yet he has consistently said he needs more personnel because staffing does not meet NFPA National Fire Prevention Association Recommended levels we have had an ambulance service with no cost or risk to the property taxpayer and Providing paramedic level service that the public seems more than satisfied with I Believe the fire department could provide an equal level of service But along with a large startup cost a huge risk to the property taxpayer of providing a subsidy along with providing a Subsidity to the county for ambulance service as we are approximately 42% of the county Going out with an RFP request for proposal is not the answer either as we had a very unpleasant Experience with that once with Curtis ambulance service. I don't think we want to go through that again My concern is this orange cross is being challenged on so many issues a good working relationship Will be difficult to maintain and the ambulance service will go to the fire department by default This would be unfortunate. We have many other financial challenges ahead of us such as a new police station stormwater management South pier development loss of state revenues city development and redevelopment street paving repaving annual health care costs exceeding four million dollars Strategic fiscal plan committee still has not meant to discuss and prioritize the suggestions of the budget reduction survey Most of us completed in September. This needs to be done Sign val Scholl Solomon fifth district January 20th 2003. Thank you Honored to follow the correct rules of the council. I would move that we file this We have a motion before us to file The document is there any discussion your honor under under discussion I don't know how we held discussion without having a Document on the floor to discuss so that's why my motion to file this Starting out with to answer as long as we're going to discuss this let's discuss it and get it over with I disagree with Val in his third paragraph where he says orange cross fire department and his deputy chiefs were in closed sessions So were many of our department heads the fire department is not our adversary or not. They're part of the city of Sheboygan and And so was orange cross when we made the decision back I believe it was in August September sometime that we were going to not go with the fire department and go with orange Cross we dropped that and from that point on we were discussing orange cross Contract we sat with many times with orange cross in those in those discussions and outside That's what contract negotiations and how they work You don't tip your hand to the people you're trying to work out a contract with but we did sit with them Go line for line for line as I said last time with orange cross in the meetings So we didn't exclude them from all closed session meetings They were included in some of them. Did we have some closed sessions without sure we do we do that when we when we're in Contract negotiation with our own employees. We do that. We do that when we have closed sessions when we have negotiations with developers to discuss our Wants and needs of the contracts. This isn't unusual. This is no conspiracy. We got away from the idea that we were going to have this be a fire department Run we made that decision the decision this council did was to go on and say Try to work out a deal with orange cross and bring it back to the council. That's what happened That's what we're currently doing I do take offense to the fact that he then goes to the next thing to the next item and says that I should have excused myself Steve is it illegal or or anything wrong with heading the committee Under the state statutes or under my my receiving money from any contributors to my campaign either as an alderman or here That's a more would it be Not doing my duty to step out of that position Since I don't have any conflict correct, right your duty as an alderman and as chairman is to Handle the duties that are assigned to that committee That's what I'm doing now. I Least think I have enough respect from most of the colleagues here on the floor to believe that I have been openly and Honestly trying to do the best job of what I feel for the city. Do we have some disagreements? Sure But I don't think I should excuse myself. I'm professional enough that if I feel something's right I'm going to turn to the fire department and say no, I'm going to turn to DPW and say no That's not an issue. My job here is to be an alderman and do it in that in that way I do take exception to the fact that He thinks that I should have had to excuse myself because of people that support me All of us have been supported by people in this community most of us have been supported by people in this community and I Don't think I don't take exception to that I'm proud of that fact that I have people that will support me and believe in the same things I do that doesn't mean they own me and it doesn't mean that I always agree with them It means that I agree with and I'm willing to listen to them If there's a problem with that I have a professional enough to handle that Back on the Orange Cross's Contract While we have had many discussions, we've always been open to Orange Cross or anybody else stepping forward Giving us input including our own people including outside labor people We've had people from the chamber that have given us input. I've had people on my committee that are executive People from the physician's network You've got to be open to all input I don't think we should be Singling out one set of people and not listen to them because they may have a vested interest Everybody has a vested interest in this in this issue, and I think it's time that we start to put this behind us And get this over with this has been a long-drawn old thing. It's been an emotional issue for a lot of people It's been trying on both our fire department the alderman here the city Orange Cross and everybody But I don't think there's anybody here, and I take again I take exception to the fact I don't think anybody here has a hidden agenda or any specific Thing that they're trying to do all outside of what's best for the city of Sheboygan I believe that on all of you Thank you Alderman Warner Not thank you, and I'll be brief. I'll try to be brief. Anyway, I've got a lot of documents on Orange Cross and Negotiations we've gone through I could read them all but I won't do that first. I believe Alderman Schultz is Reading of this document at tonight's meeting was not only inappropriate, but unprofessional And I would like to address some of the things you said one the fire department on October 7th of last year This common council voted to forward a contract orange cross ambulance Not to the Sheboygan fire department not to anyone else Orange Cross turned it down plain and simple and as far as labor donating to Alderman vernacular's campaign if they agree with him and he's the person they want to support they should donate to it This is any business donate to a candidate that they support That's what politics is about it's supporting your candidate and trying to help them win the election to be foolish not to And as far as the firefighters getting hurt I believe that's because they're helping Orange Cross do their job If firefighters didn't have to help them do their job and make Orange Cross better by being there to stabilize the patients before Orange Cross gets there or to drive their vehicles Our firefighters wouldn't be getting hurt. Obviously Orange Cross is understaffed We negotiated in good faith with Orange Cross all along and we talked with the county and the law committee And it was always in good faith And the issues in this contract are almost the same as the last one a few improvements Orange Cross's latest proposal to us or prior to the one that we now are looking at dealt with two things them using the county's radios paid for by taxpayers of the county and the city alike for nothing That was one item in their agreement and the other item is in their agreement was that there would be insurance for Firefighters first responders police and sheriff's deputies that drove their ambulances To help them up. That was their their idea of a contract. We've got something going now We should probably have a contract, but it's Orange Cross who got away not this council Not our committee not all them in vernacular and not myself and not the fire department on October 7th of this year We put that for rest. Thank you Okay Alderman Charles Hey, thank you your honor I Did open this up by saying it was not going to make me any friends in it. I Don't have a problem with that. I I wanted to make a strong statement to get people's attention to look at all issues all sides and Hopefully Maybe we can get moving on this. I took great pains to Put this together to make no Accusations of anybody doing anything illegal or anything like that And I I also said in the beginning that I have no malicious intent to this and I truly do not I wanted to make a Strong statement bring out some points get people's attention and hopefully some consideration and and move on I did in my Communication say about Alderman Finnecker and excusing himself to avoid any perception. I didn't say that he was Doing anything illegal or anything like that. I said to avoid any perception and Sometimes perception is stronger than reality and and that's my concern. So I would hope you would not file this I would hope it would be referred to strategic fiscal plan. I think it does need to be Discussed if nothing else if it's an active document at least it's there in front of people You can read it disregarded toss it do whatever you want with it But at least it's there if you vote the file is tonight. It's gone forever and it means that you're Downplaying it and don't put emphasis on it And I don't think that's going to be a good public perception To see the council file something as strong as this I think it needs some More consideration than just filing without any Review of it. Thank you I'm impressed Thank You, Your Honor just a few quick comments. I hope that all of the shields doesn't take this Council for fools But he the letter that he has written has serious serious extremely serious implications with respect to perhaps illegalities or Improprieties against not only our president of the council, but also state assemblymen and fire chief Who my respect very much? I would hope that alderman Schultz would heed his own words when he talks about ethics if he had any problem with any of these Situations he should have said so way before I am curious as to why he's coming up with this Statements now he had every opportunity just as we all did and none of us showed any objections to Terry's being present Alderman Stephan Yes I to it. I think we're discussing it now. We're giving it probably more weight than it deserves now I don't know just as Alderman Schultz's idea of going out the blaze of glory or something that we should you know Hang on and talk about it for four months, but by filing it. We're talking about it now When we're talking about like Terry said today in two weeks. It doesn't matter. We're talking about the issues That's apparently what he wanted. So let's not discuss them. I don't think I'm violating open records Laws when I tell you that you know the statement about orange cross in the fire department is totally untrue Alderman Schultz was next to me in a meeting over at the courthouse between both committees was an open session And it went to closed the fire chief walked in he said oh it's a closed meeting and they said oh you can stay here Department I said not a chance. I'm out of here the closed session. I'm not staying Wasn't gonna be in the closed session or cross was there Chief Sayers said no if it's closed I'm leaving he's still outside when I left he was supposed to sit outside waiting for the meeting to go back over So I think that you know Alderman Schultz has to know that's not true. I trust that he just made a mistake I don't think he would put it in their attentionally. I agree with Alderman Werner, you know The fire department has continually showed us where mishaps and mistakes in communications with the First responders have caused some serious workmen's companies one They admitted to one serious one the most serious one they know it was their fault They know it wasn't a firefighter's fault. So I mean the fact that it used to cost nothing and now it would cost more It's ludicrous. It's the turnover rate of the people you're working with it causes the more injuries Also, if you look to the last page, you'll see my name, and I'm not ashamed to say I'm a labor person I'm not ashamed to say I've known Terry Van Ack for 20 years That's shame to say I've served with him on this council I've served with him on the county board and why did I support him for assembly because I wanted him to vote for the ambulance I mean that's ludicrous Many of you know that I recently took a new job when I was cleaning out my desk I got to tell you I was a little shocked now, but truthfully there was a Campaign material for a person who was a sick all the person running for assembly And a labor leader at the time and his treasure was Val Schultz Now I wonder how many votes Val said oh, I can't I'm gonna Recuse myself from this because it wouldn't look great. I think what's good for the goose is good for the gander The 15 minutes if this deserves it way past to a you should file it hang on. There's a couple more Alderman Berg Thank you, Your Honor. I think I'm also going to move to file I think chief sayer must be doing his job because he's alienated probably half of his department He's alienated probably half of the council so that tells me he's probably doing his job as a department head when that comes about a couple of thoughts I think in terms of Contributions all I can say is Alderman Schultz the fire department could have dealt with you Had they given you a hundred dollars perhaps that would have been the remedy because That would then force you to refuse yourself in any future discussion I don't think we've given this probably as much weight as it deserves and for that purpose I certainly would also move to call the question all of them in ports Thank you, Your Honor. I worked for Terry for quite a few years now We're gonna obsessize a political spectrum, but I've never known Terry not to put the city first I have the utmost respect for Terry and I Will vote to file this document chief sayer you had your hand up. Would you like to speak? You don't have to his department head his department head. Thank you. I just feel compelled to respond number one Think the mayor and my cuts and the city attorney McLean can test That I refused to go into closed sessions with Orange Cross and a bit in the interest that I thought it might be the best For the city to meet with all myself. So the comments about the Alderman Schultz made that I was in closed sessions I removed myself from closed sessions probably five or six of them whatever whatever they met Number two as a department head in the shabuagan fire department I have a duty and obligation of sworn to that flag into this city to try and promote the welfare of the citizens of The city of shabuagan when the firefighters came forth to do that. That was our job It's being done in 20 or 30 major cities across the state when this council voted To go with Orange Cross succeed go for a contract to Orange Cross Myself my staff we laid low we let it happen. We wanted it to happen because that's what you would decide it That's what supposedly the citizens that you heard from thought wasn't the best interest and When the present presentations for Orange Cross were done up here the Orange Cross did their There's saying saying we can respond in three and a half minutes, you know We can we can do this we need two paramedics and when I see the department head Documents come from Orange Cross now. They don't need a contract. They want to respond in eight minutes They want to have be able to respond with one paramedic one EMT I don't think we're in right playing field at that point I have an obligation as a department up here to inform alderman that I don't think that's right for the community I don't want my mother to be responded to that way And I want my friends to be responded to that way and people that I don't know in the city I feel have a right to be responded to in the last ten years now I'm not saying Orange Cross is gonna do that. But why did they refuse to sign a contract? It's been a lot of pressure on our department and I am here to say that We've been trying to work together to get a contract and things that only Michelle said about myself and my department I feel are not true and I there is no He made a comment that there was a spreadsheet on Seen times. No, there was a couple of comments by myself. We're concerned about those on seen times and myself and Alderman Warner spend We are on a coalition on the committee that's supposed to oversight where we think there could be improvements and where there's some problems That's my job. That's what I've been appointed to do That's what the mayor put me on the committee and Alderman Warner to sit here and look at what's in the best interest of this community And that's what I was sworn to do and that's what I will do and no alderman or anybody's gonna stop me from doing what I believe is in the best interests of the city of Sheboygan and I thank you Okay, Pat With all that being said on this document. We did get a lot of discussion out of it, didn't we? Would you call the roll, please Okay, you want to start over no, that's divan Akron Teevin Akron Vanderwheel Wongaman Excuse me, I had him crossed off. That's right. He's very quiet tonight warner Winninger Bowman D-Berg Eberg Doyle Manny 13 eyes to nose motion carried 2062 is submitting an application from John Travis for change in zoning classification property located at 1839 Erie Avenue from class UI urban industrial class SO suburban office land commission 2063 is a resolution directing a public hearing to be held in connection with change of the city's official zoning map for property located at 1839 Erie Avenue all the wind oil Yes, John. I moved that 2063 be put upon its passage Moved in second a resolution be put upon its passage under discussion hearing none. All in favor Post motion carried 2064 is in ordinance amending the official zoning map of the Sheboygan zoning ordinance to change the use district classification of property located at 1839 Erie Avenue that will go to plan permission Move to the second day adjourned. Is there any discussion hearing not all in favor


Live from Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE.  Welcome to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. We are covering day one of Commvault Go 19 from Colorado. Stu and I are pleased to welcome to theCUBE one of Commvault's longtime customers from AstraZeneca. We have Scott Hunter, Global Infrastructure Services Director. Hey, Scott. Hey, good afternoon. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you very much. So, AstraZeneca is a name that probably a lot of folks know in the biomedical pharmaceutical space. But for those that don't, give us an overview of AstraZeneca, what you guys are, what you do. So, obviously we're a bio pharmaceutical company with our global presence. We use three primary care and types of medicines that we sell throughout the world. So, everything from corny care to oncology and also a massive diabetes franchise as well as other core therapies that are used by our patients worldwide. All right, so Scott, maybe bring us inside. What does data mean to your organization? It means lots of things to AstraZeneca throughout our organization from how we go about finding that next molecule to discover bleeding-edge medicines for our patients all the way to how our salespeople and commercial use data to identify the right patients for the right care as well. And of course, back office through IT, enabling functions like HHR and finance as well. So, data for us is paramount to our business. All right, you've got global infrastructure service. Could you just lay out a little bit what that entails and how data fits into the picture, what's in your purview and what you have to work with other groups on? So, my area looks after architecture, design and governance for cybersecurity and infrastructure services at AstraZeneca. So, we look after within either on-premise within our own data centers or in the public cloud as well. So, as you can imagine, data movement in their own realms and that kind of environment is pivotal to the company being successful going forward. Well, every time you talk about data being the lifeblood of an organization or the new oil, when we're talking about patient information and the information that can be used to find the next cure for a particular disease, this is literally life and death data and the ability to have access to it but also to make sure that it's protected and secure table stakes, right? So, talk to us about when you came on board you said around six years ago before we went live. Knowing how critical data is to AstraZeneca's business, what was the data strategy like a few years ago? It was pretty convoluted six years ago when I first joined AstraZeneca, we were largely outsourced to various companies. So, our data strategy, we basically didn't have one. We didn't really have much of a strategy for looking after our data with five or six different backup products with the same amount of online data storage products as well. So, over the last five, six years, we've kind of streamlined that down to one key data storage provider, NetApp, and also for backup and restore convoc. We do still have some legacy veritas environments but they're being decommissioned and moved over to convol as we speak. From a, what could I.T. initiative perspective, you said a few years ago, six years ago, we didn't have a data strategy. What was some of the, from the top down, from the C-suite down, maybe from the board down, saying, hey guys, we have to get our hands around it. I mean, this is before GDPR but in terms of the opportunities that have provided the company, where did that initiative come from? And I know you're all in convoc now but you guys went a couple of different routes. Talk to us a little bit about that initiative and the initial directions to where you are now. Yes, so our XCIO, Dave Smolley, obviously had a vision for how the company was going to progress, certainly in his tenure. And a massive part of that was understanding where our data was, how it was used, and most importantly, how it was protected as well. So that kind of drove the insertion from likes of HCL, cognizant emphasis into looking after our own environments, looking after our own data approaches and strategies as well, so that organically the company could grow based on the best directions for using that data that we could meet from what we had already through collaboration with other biopharmers as well. Again, just for the greater good of finding that next magical molecule to help our patients. All right. Scott, have you been to the Convolco shows before? Second time. Second time. Great, tell us a little bit about, you know, what brings you to the show, a lot of announcements here, anything jump out so far? Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was interesting to see some of the new collaborations that are, sorry, purchases that Convolco will be making over the last little while. The Hedwig acquisition looks pretty exciting. And the metallic venture that they're doing for public SaaS as well looks equally as exciting and pretty niche in the kind of environments that Convolco play on. So I think that's two very good moves. Yeah, so you're leveraging public cloud. How does Convolco fit into your discussion? So we use Convolco for backing up and restoring our public cloud environments, whether it be an AWS, we're about to start launching in Azure as well with both Azure in the cloud, but Azure Stack as well. And then we're in the process of bringing online production environments and Google Cloud Platform as well. So having that one backup and restore strategy is pivotal as well as enabling us to move our data using the visibility solutions you get with Convolco as well which is obviously going to be very powerful as well. One of the things I noticed when I watched the video that Convolco has done with you and they actually shared a quote from you during the keynote actually before everyone walked in is you said this constant evolution that Convolco is delivering was one of the things that you really like from a business perspective. Convolco has done a lot of evolving in the last nine months with the new leadership as Stu and you were talking about some of the new technology, some of the new announcements. From that evolutionary perspective and what you guys like about it, what are you seeing in terms of them going forward? Are you saying, hey, they're really listening, they're looking at use cases like ours, learning from it to not only make the technologies better but to expand their portfolio? Yeah, I mean, for us, a lot of it's based in the constant evolution of the APIs that Convolco used for accessing the various niche parts of their technology whether it be backing up a VM to backing up Kubernetes containers and using that in a microservices environment as well to allow us to ensure that all our outcomes that we get from those kind of, if you like, serverless computing environments that we understand what the output was so that we can either reuse it, destroy it or use it in a different manner. So that, for us, that's great because obviously for our own CI CD pipelines, they're all API driven and to be able to use the Convolco production in the same kind of fashion is good. So Scott, do you keep up on the quarterly cadence that Convolco's doing and is there anything kind of either on the roadmap or things that you're asking for that would make your environment even better? Well, no, we kind of use the 90 day cadences for ourselves to ensure that our own strategies are kept in check and we can take advantage of new nuances that are coming out not only from Convolco but from other parts of our data infrastructure where they've been at for our online storage or various other niche providers that we use for ensuring that our data is addressable and used in a proper fashion. I want to kind of get into a little bit of the use case. I know that you had a number of different competing backup solutions in place. Did you start from a data strategy perspective like within one division or one part of the company to maybe pilot, because you ended up with a whole bunch of different software solutions in there and now you standardize on Convolco and then just through that process, those decisions and what you're getting by having this now single pane of glass. So, some of the, if you like, the backup and restore sprawl was caused by individual parts of AZ being able to do their own thing, having their own IT budget. So, you would have some parts of the business want to use net backup from Veritas or the EMC products that were in play at the time. When we outsourced between IBM and HTL they chose HPDP for our primary data centers. So, that decided another backup and restore product into the mix. So, for us, it just became untenable when we started outsourcing, you know, to build a support team and support organization two week after that many technologies was pretty difficult. Hence why we decided to go for a one stop strategy. You said in the video that Convolco had a pretty significantly higher success rate compared to some of the other solutions. So, that must have kind of made out of no brainer. Yeah. So, I think they're back up for our critical set applications. It's 99.8% successful just now. And that's better what Convolco get themselves. So, that's quite comforting. As I say, it's more and more of our applications move over on the Convolco platform then we'll have a more rounded approach to not only backup success but success in the restore side of things as well as well as using the data analytics in a more timely fashion again for drug and manufacturing research. So, I know that you guys spoke with a number of Convolc customers before you made this decision and now here you are on the other side of the coin talking to a lot of Convolc customers. What advice would you give companies in any industry who in almost 2020 may not have a really robust data strategy? Yeah. What's your recommendations? They should look at Convolc not just being a backup and restore solution. You know, the code base which is put together for Convolc is very powerful. From the way that indexes the information going through the product to how you can use that for things like DRHA and also migration of workloads to different data centers or different parts of a public cloud remit, you know and the new vision that they have for data analytics is very powerful as well. Forget the name of the tool. Activate? That's the one, activate. So, you know, we've started to use that ourselves in a big way. We've got a little data science team within my operation which is minding that data or starting to mind that data in a more efficient manner and feed that into our enterprise data architecture so that they can take advantage of what we've already got within their own confines and mix that with what they need to do for new discoveries. Well, Scott, thank you for joining Stu and me on theCUBE today, sharing with us what you're doing at AstraZeneca and looking forward to hearing the next molecule that discovers some great breakthrough. Anyways, thank you. Thanks for inviting me, cheers. First Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Convolc Go, 19.


Felly, mae'r ffordd i gael ei bledwyr oedgen i gael eich stickers ond flwyddynion yn gynghoron i Gwylhau Gwylhau Wedyn ni i ddim yn iawn i gael ei ddisgwerth i Llyfrgell gyda ni yn gyfoeiddiol i Llyfrgell. Felly, mae'r gweldau gyneud yn fawr mewn dr LAN yn gyffin Llyfrgell i gael ei symud i gael eich vw 어렵d y byddiol i Llyfrgell. Ac i'r newid, mae'n fwy oesrach i gael ei ddisgwerth i Llyfrgell. y maen nhw'n gwneud hwn nifer o'r llyfr, gyda'n hyn ar gyfer y Clywed, ac mae'n erioedd gyda'r llyfr ar gyfer y llyfr. Mae ymddindig iaith oedd yn ymddindig, yn yr unig-athoddau sy'n gyffredinol. Ond, dwi'n mynd i fod yn gweithio'r llyfr ar gyfer hwnnw, rwy'n meddwl, ydych yn gallu ganddo'r go back down to where my fellow people are and get back to work. In Christian tradition, even Jesus Christ himself couldn't stay on the Mount of Transfiguration, enjoying God's glory, but had to return to where people were in need of his service and his love. His mission was to walk shoulder to shoulder with others, especially the exploited and voiceless. In our little Episcopal Church congregation, we try to model, as many of the other Greenock churches do, that practical care in our community involvement. Our hall is given over to Compassionate in Verklyde, where the lonely and the bereaved meet for food and friendship and a trained listening ear, if needed. We offer support to Mind Mosaic, a charity that takes under its wing, toddlers and teenagers, putting their lives back together again after abuse or family break-up or mental illness. Similarly, in Verklyde, starter packs, where families and single people are referred, so they can be equipped with basic housekeeping necessities. When they make a new start in a flat or house after being homeless or out of work, we try to walk with our fellow creatures through the rough times. Sometimes those of us who have the privilege to lead others also have more opportunities to enjoy the uplifting views from the hilltop of that privileged position, but it is actually down on the level side-by-side with our fellow men, women and children of every condition, where we can ultimately be most valuable in what we can offer. That is where humane, enlightened public service to others leads us, to where the vulnerable and the less powerful require our support and agency, enabling them to live fuller and more hopeful lives. Today is a crucial day in our national political life, so may you be enabled in your endeavours through this Parliament in the potential uncertainties of the months that lie ahead to work with courage and wisdom in your vocational task of walking shoulder to shoulder with the people of Scotland. May God bless you all.


So what is it about children that makes them innocent? I wasn't expecting that. I believe that when we were children ourselves we can relate to the ignorance that we have to the wider world and I feel like the bliss that we get from ignorance is what makes children seem innocent, arguably. Who says children are innocent? Flipping the coin on its head. They're innocent to an extent, yeah? There might be naughty for their parents, but you would agree that they're vulnerable and... Would you say that being vulnerable is the same thing as being innocent? I think it's a part of being innocent. Would you agree? I suppose in some sense you could say that, yeah. So with being vulnerable and innocent, it would mean that they would need someone to protect them, to look after them, to guard them as guardians. Children are vulnerable, they're easily attacked if someone could attack them. You know, things like that, that would be what would make a child vulnerable, yeah? Yep, I would agree. Do you agree with that? Yeah. So do you think in society we have a moral obligation to stand up for those who are more innocent, more vulnerable? I do believe so, yeah? Yeah, you would agree with that. Most people would, I mean, it's just basically general ethics for a society. I was waiting for you to catch us up. No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. So what about animals? Do you feel that animals are vulnerable and innocent too? They are, yeah. They are? Because it's quite similar. Like, naturally bigger animals are more able to protect themselves. Small children which haven't grown as much are inherently less able to protect themselves, aren't they? So they are vulnerable. Do you agree they are animals? Yeah, they're defending themselves as well as part of it. Do you feel like animals, they trust us to look after them, to nurture them? It depends on the individual animal, I think. So like a dog would probably trust its owner.  I mean, does a rabbit really feel, well, have trust? What is trust? Well, let's just say that they would feel safe around someone who was nurturing them, feeding them, showing them love and compassion. The animal would feel that, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Generally, that's what happens. You know, let's talk about dogs for a while. If you've seen someone hurting a dog, treating a dog unfairly, being cruel to the dog, would you try to intervene or say something? Yeah. Yeah, you would? Yeah. I used to have two dogs, so definitely, yeah. Definitely. So they feel, it feels like the dogs are close to your heart. They are where your companion is. Yeah, they are. They are off their small heart. Okay. So do you think dogs are different to any other animal in the way they feel pain and want to live and feel things like happiness and desire? Different to any other animal. Well, let's just talk about pigs. I'd say there are similarities with pigs. But yeah, I mean, then it gets into kind of the science of how intelligent each one is, I think. And it's hard to compare. So pigs intelligent? I think for animals, pigs can be quite. What about compared to a dog?  Okay. But I mean, I think they're closer than maybe people would think. So a lot of the scientists pointing to the fact that pigs are more intelligent than dogs, would you think that's a genuine? Yeah, I believe that, yeah. You believe that? Yeah. He's a scientist, I agree with what you said. Okay, so you would intervene if someone hurt a dog. Would you intervene if someone would hurt a pig?  You would? Yeah. How about yourself? I don't think pigs and dogs are. I can see where you're going with this because, but I don't think pigs and dogs are the same. I think we should bring that up because culturally it's become a lot more acceptable for pain of pigs in the sense of making them as food. But in the western world at least, we don't see dogs in the same way. We don't see dogs as food. We see pigs as food. Why is that? Because we, as humans, we've developed an emotional attachment to dogs because as I said, I had two dogs. Lots of people have dogs as pets. They're easily trained as pets. Okay. But pigs are not really the same. That's a great point. So do you think that just because we have an emotional attachment to someone, that means they deserve more moral consideration than someone we don't like. So let's just say, put it in a human context as a person there. We don't know them. Does that mean we've got the right to do what we want to them? It doesn't. It doesn't mean that at all. But it's become acceptable, which is probably wrong. Okay. So a lot of things in the past were acceptable. That were morally wrong. Would you agree with that? Definitely, yeah. Like what slavery used to be acceptable, definitely morally wrong. It was legal with two, yeah? Yeah. Okay. So just because, so where I'm actually going with this, you know where I'm going with this. We treat some animals one way and other animals that's okay to kill and eat. Okay. We draw an arbitrary line. Is that true? True. These animals are okay to care for, love for. These ones we can put in the gas chamber, bolt gun them in the head, chop them up into pieces. Okay. This is our society. So do you think there's any hypocrisy in that? Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is not the word I would use. No. Would you say, well I'll put it to this way, you would desire to live a life without suffering, without most human beings would, yeah? Yeah. So do you think it's hypocritical to deny that to an animal? I mean, so I think that if you're going to farm animals, they should ideally live a life without, well with as little suffering as you can have. Okay. So I think that's still the goal. I think that you then kill them ideally again painlessly without suffering and then eat them. I think that's different to the kind of stuff. The state of animal agriculture as it is, do you think that happens? No pain, no suffering, just a quick death? No. I'm aware that that doesn't happen, and I'm not going to be naive about that. But in an ideal world, that's what my view would be. How about a vegan world? Would that be more ideal for the animal? No death at all. I think, I guess you get, there's arguably, yeah, because then I guess they'd be set free, right? But then for a lot of species, I think if the whole world became vegan, that would be terrible for some species. For like, for cows in general, the cow population would plummet because people wouldn't be trying to keep them all alive. Do you know how many cows there are on Earth right now? Not down to the exact one. There's 56 billion land animals on Earth. Do you know why there's that many land animals, farmed animals on Earth? I guess. You think it was natural? They just bred into existence? No, I think we're breeding them into existence to eat. So do you think that is healthy and sustainable for the Earth? Where do they get their food from?  Sustainability, environment wise, having loads and loads of animals is... Is it unnecessary? Yes. Unsustainable? Yeah. So how about this? If we can live happily and healthy lives by eating plants, there would be no animal harm, no animal suffering, no animal death, or a great reduction, wait, a great reduction as best as we could do, because obviously by living we displace some of the wildlife without killing ourselves, that's just the reality of our existence. So it's more sustainable for the environment and arguably plants are the healthiest foods on the planet. So why would we choose something that's so unnecessary, so cruel when we've got all these other options? I don't think that the cruelty towards the animal world, again, I don't think that the fact us eating animals is, I don't think just only the ethical concerns need to be taken into account with that. What about all the other concerns I just raised? Does that strengthen the argument? Like environmental... Yeah, and health. And health. Well, I mean there's not, you can't say that meat is categorically unhealthy. What about saturated fat and cholesterol? Those things are bad. And they are in meat, yeah? I'd agree that yeah, they're in meat. But there's also benefits. There's also protein in meat. There's protein in beans too. But then some people like... Then the taste is what you've got to consider people like the taste of meat. Ah, so we're at taste. That's a great point because this is where I feel people have most of the argument here is where they say they value their taste over an animal's life. And that's, so that five minutes, that burger's in your mouth. Okay, this is the animal's whole life. Do you think that that's justified? Isn't that, I don't want to sound too cool, but isn't that evolution? Evolution? Isn't that survival of the fittest to a step... Like lions? Should we justify our behaviour on what's happening in nature or should we maybe, does that always mean what's ethical? Like a lot of bad things happen in nature. True. A lot of bad things happen when we're evolving. I mean, whole civilisations were pillaged and raped, you know, that doesn't mean that was justified or we should continue doing that. Is that true? True. So do you think if there's a better way, maybe we should opt for that? We should certainly all consider the better way more, admittedly. So by our own admission, we agree that, you know, animals are vulnerable, they're innocent. It's not justified to do what we do to them, for food. And there are... That's the jump that's been made about, right? Ah, so justify it. Yeah, just like... Justification for killing animals billions and billions and billions for no reason other than they taste good. Can you justify that? I don't think the only reason is that they taste good. Well, what would be the reason for it? It's, I mean, so, I feel like a lot of the points you're making are, like, this is an undeniable truth, this is an undeniable truth, this is an undeniable truth, add them all together, therefore nobody should eat meat, right? I think the strongest argument is you wouldn't want that treatment yourself, so to deny an animal of that or to treat another being in a way that you wouldn't want to be treated is a double standard and you know what I'm saying? Like, if someone was hurting you, I would stand up for you. I think, but I think then you have to... You do have to draw a line between humans and animals. I think there is... Okay, there might be some differences, but what have we got in common? We both... We all want to live, peace in peace. We desire to have a family, to live a life without suffering or enslavement. Is that true of both of us? Of both of us. Animals and humans. I mean then you know, you end up getting into a debate of like doesn't animal want that necessarily? There's also a point about... So you say this about animals and veganism, let's not exploit animals for what we want. So for example, the clothes we're all wearing were probably people have been exploited, not in the same way, they haven't been killed off for it, but people have been exploited in order for us to enjoy this. And we say, oh, well what's the benefit of that? We could all just spend a lot... Well, we could have things made much more ethically that end up costing a lot more. But it's like, oh no, but I don't really want to spend 50 quid on that t-shirt, I'd rather spend 20. You raise a really good point. There are more ethical ways to live than just veganism itself. But why should we cause the maximum amount of harm when we don't have to? We're not causing the maximum harm. By eating all these animal products that we don't need, we could just stick to plants. And then maybe there's other ethical issues that could be more ethical clothing options. But why should we cause all this animal suffering on top of that when it's not necessary? There's alternatives, you know what I mean? That we've got other stuff we can eat. Yeah, but animal suffering isn't... You're trying to make animal suffering seem the same as human suffering, which I think is... What about a dog? What about your dogs, bro? I still wouldn't say a dog seems human. But you would say that they deserve a life without suffering, without slavery, yeah? But still, if I had to choose between a dog and a human, I would always choose the human. But we don't have to. All we have to do is choose between plants and animals. That's why I believe we should probably investigate how to make this more practical on a wide scale for everyone. And that's why I'm saying we should investigate, but we can't just commit to it yet unless people actually are aware of themselves. Because in this kind of issue, people need to actively make the decision. So, what about you with this conversation here? Is that making you more aware? It's making me definitely have a thinker. I'm going to have a Google and I go home. Think about it from your dog's perspective. If someone was rounding them up, breeding them by the billions, putting them in trucks and setting them to a slaughterhouse, that would make you feel what? If I had no emotional attachment to the dogs. I mean, it happens in China, doesn't it? I don't see it as that big an issue, personally. What if it was humans? If you didn't have no emotional attachment... But it's not humans. Then there's a line. There's a line between humans and animals. That's where you draw it. But you wouldn't like to see something... There's something like... I don't think you can call farming on an industrial scale the same as rounding up millions of people and killing them. That's not what happens to animals. That's what happens to animals. But it's not as... You can't... Is that a double standard? I'm not Jewish, right? But if I was, I think I'd be quite offended by the fact that you're... I never said nothing about Jews, by the way. No, of course you didn't. This is a hypothetical scenario to help you see the hypocrisy and the double standard. I think... I'm not trying to offend... No, no, no, I understand. Okay, I'm not saying anything like that. I know where you're going, though. Yeah, right? It's not... I don't think... I think you would be very offended by... I'm trying to put it in the human context so you empathize. And I think that's the wrong way to go about trying to get me to empathize. Okay. I tried dogs with him, he had pet dogs. I've got pet dogs as well. You've got pet dogs? Yeah. What if someone put your dog in the gas chamber and chopped them up for bacon? Oh, yeah, I know. Yeah, no, obviously I'll be very upset, right? Because I've got an emotional attachment to my dog. Yeah, but like... It's different to some dogs in China which someone else do you think? Don't have an emotional attachment. But then you get, oh, where's the difference? Where's your dogs in there, dog? Exactly. And the individual dog, it's not all about us. This is what I'm trying to get people to be altruistic and think about the individual. Because issues of justice should always be looked at from the victim's perspective, not the oppressors. Is that true? Yes. Like, you know, normal issues of justice. We say how did it make the victim feel? That's how you would judge it, yeah? That's not the only way you can judge it. But it is the... In a human context, it's far more important to look at things from the victim's perspective because they... So in my opinion, humans are... and the human experience is more valuable than an animal's experience of its existence. But then when you bring in farming, you can't make an argument or the entirety of an argument based solely upon the animals have this experience and that is clearly bad and then they're killed off. So that's all very much one way, right? There's got to be some other flipside I'd love to hear the justification for this treatment of animals. I'd love to hear one good reason why when we've got alternatives. Like why should we do it to them? They've done nothing wrong to us.   No, pigs never attacked anyone, have they? Like a cow or chicken, they're so innocent and vulnerable and they trust us and we betray them. I think it's unfair to ask me to come up with a whole argument on this. One reason why you think it's okay. The reason we do it, ultimately when we make a decision, what we're doing is doing a cost-benefit analysis. The benefit is that it's an entirely selfish reason why we don't do that. It's a selfish reason but is it wrong to be selfish is then what you've got to ask? Only if someone else is going to be hurt because of it.  If I have no emotional attachment to the pig that's getting hurt then it doesn't affect me personally. That's why I can eat harm and not feel any guilt. Do you think that would be justified in any other context? Just because it doesn't hurt you personally it's okay to go out and do whatever we want to others? No, because you're about to compare it to humans again. No, your dogs will compare it to your dogs. Dogs are different. If I come and hurt your dogs it doesn't matter because it didn't. Dogs have... What do they have that pigs don't have? I think they do have more rights than pigs. Why? In a legal system. Because that's what the law says. Do you think the law is always moral? No, no, no, no. We established that, didn't we? So what is the justification for doing this to pigs? It's okay if you can't find one because I've tried, I've tried for a long time. No human has an emotional attachment to the pig that's got... Your argument is that emotional attachment determines how we should treat issues of justice.  A child. The most innocent and vulnerable. Not necessarily justice but it does determine our decisions. But it doesn't make it right, does it? That's what I'm asking whether you think it's right or wrong. I didn't say it was right, did I? I said that we're selfish. If we're trying to be altruistic, then yes, okay, you could argue you shouldn't do it. But I'm arguing that humans aren't altruistic people. And is that a problem? It depends. Is that a problem in our society? I can't tell you about the sustainability of it, really.  If we cared more about farm animals, would we not care more about all individuals? And if we cared about their suffering, we maybe wouldn't turn a blind eye to all suffering. Do you think this sort of selfish mentality breeds a society full of me, me, me and not looking at others? I think humans are inherently set up to be selfish. I don't think that at all. I don't think you are, mate. I think you're thinking more about this now. I think everyone's got compassion in their heart. It's just you have to open that up. I've got compassion in my heart, too. But you could argue that compassion in itself is selfish because when you do something of benefit to wider society, that, in turn, force has benefit to you. You feel like you've done something good. It gives you that sense of... And you're doing good to another too. So it's a win-win. Compassion's a win-win. Selfish is just a win and a lose. But... Yeah? Which one's more logical to you? Compassion or being selfish? Which one feels more right? If humans are rational people, so they're only selfish at the end of the day. That's what studies show in this kind of situation with pigs being slaughtered. We'll leave it with you guys, though. Has your position changed since this conversation about issues of justice when animals are involved? No. You would still continue to eat them? Nothing's changed. I don't believe you. Something in your eyes is saying you're thinking about it, no? No. Not at all. Yourself? It hasn't changed, but I'll look into it for my own personal interest. I'll give you a card because that was a really interesting debate with you guys. Thank you. There's some information on the back, some resources. You can do a 22-day vegan challenge if you want to try it. And, you know, after that 22 days, see if you feel any better. Here's some resources for you, too. Are you going to now...  No, not at all. I can just see, like, the question and then just the silence. No. No, not at all. Not at all. I think that was a very productive conversation myself. I think that's one of the best I've had, just because... I would buck as to be fair. I'd buck as to be decent. No. I think that was a productive conversation. I think we got somewhere and we thought about things we don't think about, which is... That's all I can do. I can only plant some seeds and lead you to something, and it's up to you what you do. You might not change. It's really an interesting conversation. Yeah, yeah. They're very difficult questions. They are difficult questions. They don't really have answers. I don't suppose it is good. And you've got to ask yourself, why aren't they easy to answer these questions? That's what I'm going to give you. Yeah. Google it, man, but just Google it in here, bro. That's all you need to use. The worldwide web has more answers than in there. No, no, no, no. Thanks, heaps guys. Thank you very much. I appreciate that more than you know. Thank you.