Good, starting up baby. Okay, yesterday I tried to do my usual Sunday live at five, but I experienced technical difficulties right when I was getting to the good part. Oh, that was annoying.  I don't know how brontosaurus is actually breathing, but because I just did morning exercises. It went well, feeling strong, exhausted, but feeling good. Okay, so here's what I meant to say yesterday before getting cut off by technical difficulties. I'll probably give the briefer version. So last week, someone asked me this question and I didn't really have a very good answer for it. I said a lot of, I don't know, I was thinking about it, but the question was basically, hey Jamie, why do most people get stuck in just doing the same thing every day, running on the hamster mill, doing what's expected of them and what they're told. But then a few people have something going on where they can go off and forge their own path. Like I'm an example, like moving to this private island and homesteading and doing all this weird inventions and stuff, why can people like you and other people who have some kind of attributes, like what is it that makes it so they can go off on their own and not be stuck in the everyday grind like everyone else. And I guess I just had it in the back of my mind all week because two yesterday, I think yesterday morning, I was thinking about something totally unrelated and I was like, oh, that's the answer to that guy's question last week. And the short answer is strength, but that's not gonna, that doesn't cover it all. We're gonna have to explain. And strength, by the way, of course, is one of the eight virtues or principles in the adventure builder philosophy. And I consider myself to be an adventure builder and strength is important. And I was just doing some exercise to get strong and that's why I'm sweating like a pig and I'm feeling pretty good about it. Okay, so what am I talking about here? Let's back up a little bit. This is something I learned when I was a little kid and it's something I learned from video games because, you know, my parents were divorced and just busy doing other stuff. So I spent a lot of time by myself and I played video games. I learned a lot of stuff from video games, you know, different kinds of video games, but role playing games specifically, you know, RPGs where you're playing like some kind of like Dungeons and Dragons kind of thing, you know, fighting monsters, getting stronger and it would like put me in a lot of situations where I'd have to think about it and these situations would have parallels in real life. So the first game, the first video game I really played like I really got into, not just like five minute thing, but I played this for like, I don't know, years, you know, in free time now, not all the time. And the game is called Ultima 3 and there's a whole series of Ultima games. The Ultima 3 is where I started and in this game, it's a turn-based game. So you do one turn, then the monsters do a turn, then you do a turn, the monsters or the world does turn, whatever. And it was when, it was back when there was, the graphics weren't very good. Well, I mean, actually, I think the graphics were amazing but you know, not realistic at all. They were, you know, real pixely. There were only four colors in this game and it was only like a couple megabytes. So there wasn't a lot on the screen to, Mr. Lamfield loved Ultima. Yeah, Ultima is awesome. Anyway, let me get to that. So there wasn't a lot on the screen. Like there's enough to tell you what is happening but there's no visuals to make it for you. So you make the visuals in your own head, kind of like when you're reading a book. And this is something that's largely lost in modern video game experience because you get so much on the screen, you end up looking at that and not imagining it in your head. And kids today are losing that ability to imagine things in their head. But anyway, so I would get really into these games because I'd see the little stick figure that was me and my party and little grass that was a few dots. And there was, you know, it was really basic information to tell me what was happening but I had to make up the scenes in my head. So it got really immersed just like when you're reading a book and you get really into it, right? Now there were three basic areas in this video game, ultimate three, Exodus. There's the main outer world, you know, just the surface of the world, which is where you start. And in that area, you get a map with the game.  Like you can see there are dangers but there's not that many and you can see them coming, right? And then there's the towns. The towns and the castles are like safe places.   I was terrified. When I was a little kid, I was terrified to go in these dungeons because I was imagining I was actually in this world, right? Now in the outer world, you can save your game anywhere but in the dungeons, you can't save your game.  Plus it was like terrifying to be in the dungeon when you're like down a few levels and you get poisoned and you don't have any way to fix the poison. You got to somehow fight your way out of the dungeon while you're slowly dying and try to get back to some healing place. Oh, if the dungeons were brutal, plus you couldn't see monsters coming. You were just in the battle instantly like you'd be walking around and when you see the monster, it means you are in a battle. Plus you can't see anything unless you have a lit torch and these torches run out. So you got to carry a whole bunch of torches with you because you could go through like 20 torches in a big dungeon adventure, right? So the dungeons were like all unknowns. You don't know what's there. There's no maps. You can't see unless you have a thing. There's a time limit constantly chopping at you. Monsters will come at you any time, anywhere. You don't know what's, it's all the unknown. And when I started playing this game, I was so terrified to go into the dungeons.  But with the number of monsters that are out on the surface area, there's barely enough to keep up with how much food you eat, just walking around killing these monsters. So you're barely scraping by.  To get ahead, you got to go into the dungeons. So to go into these dungeons, like you got to prepare all the stuff and get ready and get as many, get as many potions and stuff as you can. Someone said, can't level grind in town. You can actually level grind in town, but it means killing innocent people. But that's a separate story. We're not gonna get into that. Anyway, you got to get like, there are these sands that you can get and if you use them, they're kind of expensive, but you use them, it freezes time. So it's like a last ditch effort. You can use one of these expensive time-freezing things. It'll freeze the world for like a little bit and you can get through a fight some, but it's expensive and you end up losing more gold than you get, but maybe you can get out.  And that's just to go into like the first level, you know? But then as I'm playing the game, my guys, my guys are fighting, they're working, they're getting stronger, you know, they're gaining more experience and they're either getting better at everything. They're the magic guys are getting more magic and now suddenly one of them has the cure spell, which cures poison and it's like, whoa, now I don't have to run away if I get poisoned. I have a way to fix it. I have some skill that can deal with this and your fighters get stronger and better weapons and better armor and you guys get stronger and as time goes by and your guys get stronger, you need less preparation to do more in the dungeon and by, you know, eventually you get to a point where you can just waltz right into the dungeon, go right down to the bottom level and get the important stuff you need to finish the game and all the piles of gold and whatever. You can just march right down there because your guys are strong enough. They have enough skills. They can handle it. They have the strength to handle it. Now this is, this is, I didn't know it at the time but this is real life. The surface world is just the everyday grind, you know, the nine to five job where you just feel like you're running on a treadmill, barely scraping by.  You can barely pay for all that. You can barely, you can barely live the life you're expected to live.  You're barely scraping by, right? Just like on the surface world.  You got to, you got to start following some other path that, that not everyone is on.  But once you've figured out that path, you can't just go down that path unless you have sufficient strength to do it. Because if you, if you try to go down some unknown path and I'll use myself as an example, you know, at one point in time I was working jobs and they were like boring. I was getting nowhere just kind of scraping by and I was like, you know what? I could start my own contracting business and start, start repairing houses. But that's risky and it's scary and it's a lot of work. I'm going to need a lot of mental skill. I'm going to need a lot of stamina. I, it's scary to take a chance on yourself and tell these people, if you pay me this much money I can do this work and accomplish this for you. And then you're, then you're obligated and it's scary to do that. But I knew I had the skills and I knew I had the strength and the stamina because I spent years when I was a kid doing sports. And I started doing sports because largely because of these video games. I see my characters in the video games getting stronger and being able to handle more. So I started exercising myself and started practicing my mind and my body and just getting stronger, right? And then when I started doing sports I never, this was something like I told people about but I never cared about the trophies or the medals or anything like that. And I won piles of trophies and medals. I didn't care about any of that. What I cared about was getting stronger. I cared about the training much more than the competitions because I knew the exercise would make me stronger for the future. And that way when the, when the coaches said, oh, you got to keep going through the injuries I could realize, no, no, no, don't, this is a good tip for anyone doing sports. No injury is worth it.   Take, take the exercise, take the strength in the experience and make yourself strong, give yourself endurance, make yourself strong mentally and physically because that is what's going to be useful in the future. But anyway, so I started doing this job and I would, I would work like 12, 14 hour days, nonstop, skip lunch, just going hard, hard, hard because I knew if I could do the job and half the time other people could do it, I would make twice as much money, right? And then I started saving money and then at some point I bought land and I could go out and, and live in the forest which again was scary because like there's no house there. There's nowhere for me to go. There's no, there's no, there's no town. There isn't even a, no, this is just totally going into the unknown. It's totally going into the dungeon, right? It's going into one of the deep dark dungeons. I don't know what's there. It's scary. I don't know if I can handle it but I knew that I could handle several days without sleep. I knew I could handle several days without food. I knew I could work like 24 hours a day for a few days in a row if I need to. I knew that I could sleep in the cold if I have to. I knew that I could handle it because I had sufficient strength. I knew I could handle a lot. It doesn't guarantee success but it means I can handle a lot of problems.  Like spent the first month just camping and chilling out and just, you know, experiencing life for the first time really. And then I started working and I worked so hard. And there were days when, when I would just work from, from before the sun came up till after the sun went down and I'd eat in the morning and I'd snack on garbage and then eat, eat in the evening. And then the next day it was for just, I was just working all the time and I knew I could handle it or at least I thought I could handle it. And if I kept doing it, I would just keep getting stronger and keep going. And that's the only reason I was able to do all that. And that's the only reason I was able to come here and, you know, build this house and do all this stuff because I got strong enough. So I mean, I guess there, I guess there's really two things I'm mentioning there that make it possible for a person to get off the beaten path and take, take their own path. One, you got to figure out your own path. You got to figure out some path, not just copy someone else's path, but figure out your path. And it doesn't mean it won't be the path someone else has done. Maybe it will be, but you got to really think about it to yourself. Like what do I really want to do? What do I care about? What, what's, what do I think is going to be worthwhile to do in the world? And then you have to get sufficient strength to do it. And that strength comes in the form of just physical strength, endurance, mental strength, skills. You just have to get strong enough to give yourself a fighting chance. And the stronger you can get, the better chance you have success. And that's the answer to the question. All right, let me, let me just see what you guys are talking about. Hopefully that was a reasonable answer. Yeah. Hi, Jamie. Hello, Hart. Bonjour to Canada. Yeah, I grew up in Canada, not in the French part though, right next to the French part in Ontario. Haro, oh wait, are you saying Haro or are you saying hero? I'm going to, I'm going to say Haro to my Japanese friend. Oh man. Hello, Jamie. Okay. Loved Ultimate. Did you ever try Ultima Online? I did play Ultima Online a little bit, but I didn't get past the, you know, the free month trial, I think it was. Because, you know, I, I don't have that much. I have other stuff to do. Imagination. Got my Ultima Online paid for by mining copper to sell. Morning all. Cool. So far, aligning well with original strength, valid points. Well, thanks, man. Preparation and skills are needed. They are needed. Can't level grind in town. Yeah. So one of the funny things is in this, oh, this is bright and light. The sun's right behind me now. So in, I was going to mention this real quick. In Ultima 3, you could level grind in town and get gold and everything. In that game, gold was like everything.  And there was one town that had zero guards in it.  And when I first started playing the game, that's what I did. I just went into a town and just started murdering people and taking the gold.  I was like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel right. This is, this isn't a good thing. This is just, this is not really playing the game. I'm copying out. I'm, I'm, I'm taking the easy way out. You know, just like if a person was in real life and just started doing something that wasn't valuable, like stealing or, you know, something like that. But anyway, so I restarted the game and I was like, now I'm going to play as a good guy. I'm not going to murder people in towns. I'm going to try to figure out how to actually get through this. And that was, that was one of the big lessons. So I didn't have to go through that in real life. I didn't have to go through that phase of, let me try just, just doing anything I can, regardless of the, the moral implications, you know, because I, I did that in a video game. All right. I'm just going to ignore this light behind me because this is a better angle. Become per, Oh, become pwissant. Pwissant, I got to look that word up on my way to work building barges. I love melting metal. Oh, that's cool. Building barges. I could use a barge, man. Oh, it thumbs up everyone. Banana building, building a road, look tiring. Yeah. So when it, that's another example. So I built a road. The first time I moved off grid, there was no road to my property. So I built a road like a mile and a half a road through, through the mountains. And it was, it was not easy terrain to get, to get a truck through. I wasn't even sure if I could do it, but I started and I was like, all right, I've got a lot of endurance and I've got a lot of strength. Let me just take my tools and just start going and see how far I can get. And just that, the perseverance I'd gained from years, of like track and field and swimming and different sports. And then just doing my own exercises and just, just getting used to following through. Made it so I could actually finish that road and got my truck in there and then I could drive things up to my place, which is pretty cool. Fluger old wizard spell. Is it Fluger? No, it's, is it Fluger? That sounds like the, the fifth, the 25 magic points wizard spell that shoots a fireball. Is it Fluger? Anyway, thank you, Jamie for your exercise videos.  I've been holding me back little by little. I'm getting stronger. That's awesome. And that's all I need. Like when I started doing those, I was like, no one's going to watch these because it's just going to be like, you know, 30 seconds of me like looking like crap in the morning and trying to form sentences when I just woke up. But dude, if that's working for you, I'm going to try to keep doing them. It's actually been helping me a little bit too.  I would have gotten up either way this morning, but it was just like one more thing. It's like, well, Sean McGuire is waiting for me to make this morning video saying get up and go. So I better do it. So yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of getting me going too. Where is the kids car? It's up on the hill and it's drivable and the kids drive it and it's, it's real fun actually. It's been in a few videos. Yeah, it's just up there and drive it around. Jamie, have you played Diablo 2? You should play it. I've never played Diablo 2. Well, I don't know. That was one of those games where I was at a friend's place and I played for like a few minutes and you know, but I haven't really played it. Um, I don't have time to get into new video games now though. Usually if I want to play something, I'll just play some old Nintendo game or like Cave Story or I don't know. If I built a house on a barge wharf and anchored it on a lake outside of a major Canadian city, would the government people eventually come and tell me that I can't live there? Probably. Now, I don't know what the actual rules are in Canada for, you know, but I just based on my experience, like look it up, obviously check, but I would say the government's probably going to hassle you because one thing I learned about Canada, if you are not doing what everyone else is doing, oh my God, people go crazy. Like not even just the government, like just people, you know, if you don't think the way they think, you don't say the things they say, if you don't, if you're not, at least where I grew up in Hamilton, Ontario, if you are not like a liberal socialist, then you would get in fights. And in high school, I was, I said, I didn't like the healthcare system. I thought there were, I didn't think the universal healthcare system was working. And oh my God, people would get so angry, like take serious offense. And I'm just like, dude, this is my opinion. This is what I think. And you know, I have reasons for thinking this, but you don't even want to hear them because you just screaming at me. Man, Canada is a very socially strict place. But yeah, the government also is very like, don't do anything outside of the normal. I mean, you can do it out things outside of the normal, but like near major city, you probably have to go further than that. I found the US to be, to be, to have more freedom than Canada, but still pretty strict. Like the United States became more, more really more strict. And it just, just started having more and more rules. At a noticeable level, just in the time I was there. And I mean, I was in the States. I lived in the States for like almost 20 years. And yeah, I noticed the rules got tighter and tighter. And every year it was like, I could do less and less. People in general could do less. Most people didn't care though, because they're like, oh, this rule doesn't affect me. Cause only, only like one in 20 rules would affect them personally. So that's the one they would complain about and everything else. Everyone would say, ah, whatever. But if people actually united and you know, got unified, which do not and started saying, wait, I don't care if this rule affects me. It could have affected me. And it affects my neighbors and it's taking their freedom away. We all need to stand up against this. Then you know, something could happen. You know, maybe, maybe there could be some pushback against this stuff. And actually, I should mention one thing. That's pretty cool. That's happened in Panama recently. And I don't know the whole story. So maybe it's not as good as it sounds to me. Maybe that maybe I'm missing a bunch of stuff. Oh, man, it's not going to be blasted. All right. But the government in Panama sold mining rights to this. It was actually a Canadian mining company. As far as I understand to sold, sold mining rights to this Canadian company for just a ton of money in this area where the mine is just destroying nature, right? And the Panamanian people didn't want this.  And we're all left here with just destroyed land and polluted everything. So the people in Panama just shut the country down. And this went on for over a month. You may have seen something about it in the news. Like there were roadblocks all up and down the country. Just blocking the roads, shutting down the country. And after something like 34 days or something like that, finally the government was like, all right, we better deal with this. And then the Supreme Court, you know, started doing their job and they declared that the mining contract was unconstitutional for whatever reason. I don't know. I don't know what the details of the Constitution are or whatever the details of the legal thing. But the thing is just the normal people in Panama got together and stood up against the government that they thought was doing something wrong and got them to stop doing it, which is awesome. It's really awesome. That is a really cool thing. Ah, let's see. I was saying, hello, hero. You were talking about the classic hero story. Where are you going to have a hair on my mouth? Okay. The classic hero story. I see. Well, what do you think of converting old metal shipping containers for housing? That sounds great. The shipping containers, there are shipping containers that are not rusty, right? Like ones that are either stainless or aluminum aluminum or something. The insulated ones. If I was going to do, I would want to use those. That's because I'm in a salty, you know, salt water environment. I'm in the ocean here. For anyone who doesn't know, I'm on a little island in the ocean. Like, I could get to the ocean in like 10 seconds from right now. That way or that way. Yeah. Shipping containers sound like a grade building material. Magni says, can't stay long. I've got a meeting at my son's school. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that many people to be here while I was doing this this morning because, you know, it's just a morning for a lot of people.  Got a meeting at my son's school. I need to explain why he hates it and thinks it's boring. Dude, take him out of school, home school him. Let him let his kids stuck in school in boring schools. It's just destroying their imagination. You know, take him out, get him anything is better than that. Don't let, don't let their imagination get destroyed. Take him out in home school. Let's see. I will cover my houseboat in mirrors. So that from the shore, you will just look like more water and sky. If you cover your boat in mirrors, it might look like this blinding bright thing every once in a while when the sun's in the right spot. But yeah, that would be pretty funny. Oblivious is bliss. Yeah. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. The thing is like ignorance. Ignorance is great temporarily. But eventually you just start getting walked on. You don't know why. Like I would, I would always rather take the truth regardless of how unsavory it is over, over ignorance. And there, there are a lot of times in my life when I've been like, no, just tell me the truth to someone.  Just effing, tell me the effing truth because that's more important than any of this feeling stuff or whatever. Cause if I don't have the truth, I don't, I don't like, there's no point in going around in some fantasy world when you're in the real world because it's not going to match up. This is, this is honesty. Another adventure builder principle and virtue honesty. You gotta, you gotta have a good grasp on what's going on in the real world. So you can, you can do things in the real world cause you don't, if you don't understand what's really going on, then you're kind of, you're kind of crippled.   Oh, and I've been talking about, I've been talking about, you know, all this exercise and stuff lately and one of the questions I'm sure someone's going to ask and someone may have already asked and I didn't notice is, you know, what do you do if you're disabled? Okay.  You can start anywhere and improve and you may, you may be at a point in your life where you're so old that you're, that you're just declining regardless and maybe the best you can do is just, you know, kind of maintain whatever, you know?  So let me just chill for a week before I croak or whatever. But like, before you get to that point, like anywhere you are on the spectrum of capabilities, you can do something to, to improve yourself, you know? So don't worry if you, if you've got some, something holding you back. You'll love Diablo too. I don't know. I can't get into a video again. I don't know. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll try it. I mean, I do, I do play games once in a while. Jerry Riggs Everything is using a big drainage tube like 16 foot diameter for a bunker. Oh, that's cool. I would love to get one of those giant drainage tubes. Oh man, if I could, the thing is I'm on an island. So there's, there's definitely a limit to what I could get here.  But yeah, anyway, let's see, Jamie, I think that climate doomerism is irresponsible and not fair to children just because the climate is changing doesn't mean we're all doomed. True. Totally. Yeah, climate. Yeah. That whole climate thing, it's, it's, I don't know, it's weird and it's impossible to like, unless you actually have some connection to like the actual information, like unless you're directly involved, it's like impossible to find out like, like what's, what's, what's really going to happen here? You know, do I need to be prepared for the ocean to, to rise really soon or, or is it going to be cool and everything's fine or like, I don't know. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and yeah, all that doomerism stuff. Like as long as we're still going, just, just keep going and do your best.  There's, there's no way around that. There's always something that can screw things up. So don't worry about it too much. I played Ultima on my Commodore 64 back in the 80s. Fun times. Yeah. Oh, I remember Commodore 64. I didn't have one, but I had a friend who had one. There are a lot of free pellets offered in my area. What are some important things to keep in mind when working with free pallet wood? I don't know.  But I mean, otherwise, don't, don't cut yourself on the nail. Yeah. Don't take any boards off and put them down and leave the nails in them because you might step on it. I don't know. Use, use it. Sounds great. Yeah. If you can get, if you can get free material, go for it. Some pallets are chemically treated. Okay. That's what I was just talking about. Some are heat treated and use, use the heat treated. Yeah. So he's saying use the heat treated pallets, not the chemically treated pallets.  Have fun. Have fun storming to castle. I must have missed something. All right. I think I'm going to go, I don't know, make some breakfast or something. Should I take off my weights? Usually on Mondays and Tuesdays, I do my morning exercises with weights on and then I often just leave them on for like most of the day while I'm out digging and stuff. Anyway, the end Edward says that sounds like an excellent the end. All right. I'll catch you guys later.


You can help a child learn about the days of the week by using a calendar. You can point out the days on the calendar and say, these are the days of the week. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Each day you can use the calendar to talk about what day it is and what day it will be tomorrow. For example, you might point at Monday and say, today is Monday. We are making some sweets today. Then you could point at Tuesday and say, tomorrow will be Tuesday. We are going to the festival on Tuesday. Learning the days of the week and their order will help the child begin to understand the concept of time.


as well as internal departments, simplifying billing and charge backs. Veeam Availability Suite 9.5 includes all of this, plus much more. Read our what's new document for a complete list of new features and enhancements, and download 9.5 today. Live from New Orleans, it's theCUBE, covering Veeam on 2017, brought to you by Veeam. Welcome back to New Orleans everybody. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day one of our continuous coverage of Veeam on, continuous coverage of continuous data protection. Big theme here today. Maria Olson is here, she's the Vice President of Global and Strategic Alliances at NetApp. Andy Vandeveld is back, he's the Vice President of Global Alliances at Veeam. Folks, welcome to theCUBE, good to see you again. Thank you. Nice to be here. So, first of all, let's start with Maria. So Veeam on, big show, a lot of action. How's it going? You know, the energy here is amazing here. You know, I remember being at Veeam on years before, and what I see here in terms of the number of customers and partners, and starting to see the big growth in the enterprise market, and all the announcements and innovation that they've made today is fantastic. It's like a groundswell, right? I mean, and so, we've been following NetApp for years, you guys have the best snapshot technology in the marketplace, the customers love it, and very efficient, and have always had sort of an interesting take on data protection. So, and data fabric obviously is a big theme of NetApps these days, so explain that to us and we can get into how you guys partner. Sure, absolutely. So, most companies think of us as a storage company, but we really have evolved from a storage company to a data management company. We have a full portfolio of products, including all of our all-flash-faz offerings. We did an acquisition, which was our largest acquisition with SolidFire as well. We also have backup to cloud offerings with our alt of alt offering that backs up to Azure and Amazon. We have storage grid, web scale, you know, we have a very full large portfolio. What all this allows customers to do, and where NetApp is heading, is in terms of being able to manage and move the data regardless of where it's at. So, I call this the gold opportunity. I just came back from Sapphire. You talked to Bill McDermott. He talks about how data's gold. You heard the same thing here with Peter McKay as well. And to me, the whole thing, it doesn't matter if the gold's there, you got to be able to manage it and monetize and do something with it. And that's what NetApp helps provide. So, Andy, that sounds very consistent with the strategy that Dean is putting forth that we heard certainly this morning and throughout this conference. So, what's the partnership? Where do you pick up and NetApp leave off at vice versa? So, you know, in the data protection space, it's the ability to manage the data to make sure that it's getting into a form that can be stored and accessed and available as quickly as possible is really what we're focusing on. And, you know, to do that, we need partners like NetApp who have the infrastructure assets that we can leverage. You know, particularly as we move more and more into the enterprise business with enterprise customers. Those customers are spitting off a lot of data. They need their data to be available as quickly as possible in the case of an outage or some other disruption to their business. And to do that, Veeam needs infrastructure partners that have robust portfolios that can handle that sort of requirement. And that's where the relationship with NetApp comes into play and has been very good for us over the years. I like this notion of data fabric. Has a connotation of fluidity and it sort of reminds me of the Veeam waves here a little bit. So, explain more, Maria, if you will, the data fabric. What is that concept? How are customers actually getting value out of it? Absolutely. So, data fabric is more of a framework, right? We don't have a SKU that you just go by, data fabric. It's really a framework and a portfolio of products integrated with our ecosystem of partners like Veeam to be able to manage and move the data, regardless if it's on-prem or where they want to go as part of their digital transformation. So, customers are all at different phases in terms of where they want to go, in terms of becoming more of a digitally-oriented business. And we help get them there through the journey because of the strength that we have on the on-premise side as well as the integrations that we've done with our partner ecosystem, specifically, you know, with Veeam and others so we could help move them in that direction. So, when you take that a little bit further in terms of, so the customer sees this vast portfolio, the end you were talking before, about the NetApp's infrastructure, it's pretty vast. I mean, it's the leader in its space. What are they asking you guys for? What are they challenging you to do, specifically in the context of data protection? So, customers are asking us, number one, make sure that it's simple, right? And that's one of the big value props that Veeam makes, right? Number one. And NetApp too. And NetApp too, right? That it's always on and available, right? That there is no disaster that occurs, that the data is there, that we know where it is, that we can manage it, we can back it up. Those are the big things. The third thing customers are asking for is help us in terms of how do we digitally transform our business, right? It's the business outcome that they're looking for, of which the products that NetApp and Veeam does is a subset of that that helps them on that journey so they can actually digitally migrate and become more of a digitally oriented business with our offerings helping in the whole backup and recovery and whole data management space. Yeah, and I would just sort of tag on to that. Customers' consumption models are changing, so they're on-prem, they're in a private cloud, they're in a public cloud. The way that they consume is changing and it's different, and no two look the same. And I think what customers are telling us is let us decide how we're going to consume, you just be able to accommodate that consumption. And that's really what we've been focusing on. So if it's in an on-prem environment, great. If it's in a public cloud, fantastic. If it's some hybrid model, that's great too. We can accommodate that, and that's really what customers are asking us, as well as making sure that we accommodate the various business models that exist. Whether it's purchasing licenses or some subscription-based models or whatever. They want that flexibility, and that's what they're asking us to provide. Brie, I'm wondering if you have any joint customers that you're highlighting here at the show or any specific examples you might be able to walk us through. So we have several joint customers. As a matter of fact, I mean, you heard Peter McKay talk about 210,000 customers of those 30% are net app, right? So it's a very big area, right? And now in terms of some of the announcement that they've made in terms of supporting NAS, in terms of the physical environment, NetApp is the leader in that space, so it's even going to become broader, right? So you saw today in terms of Peter McKay talking about the Denver Broncos, right? That's a big NetApp customer in terms of the solutions that they have there. Also, Telefonica was announced there, very large service provider. It's another big NetApp customer. So there's a lot of customers in the enterprise space. Veeam's more known in terms of the SMB space, but when you start to look at the momentum they've had in going up the stack, there's a lot of enterprise customers that we actually are jointly engaging with. What's, go ahead. And I would just say that the more that we penetrate the enterprise market and the service provider market, the more that we're going to need partnerships like we have with NetApp to come stronger because they're the trusted advisors, the ones that the customers are listening to. It's easier for us just to ride on their coattails into these opportunities than to try to create these relationships all ourselves. And that's what makes this such a great partnership for us. Cloud service customer channel base has come up a couple of times today, but we haven't really explored some of the fundamental assumptions behind it. And what I want to ask you guys is, everybody sees the ascendancy of Amazon, very impressive, amazing growth. Yet at the same time, your respective cloud service provider businesses are also growing very rapidly. So you've got the disruption to the traditional legacy enterprise business. We all have covered that very well. But there's not much been discussed about what's going to happen within the cloud business. So there's maybe some campuses, okay, everything's going to go to Amazon and I don't think many people believe that. But what's happening within the cloud service provider base? It seems to be quite fragmented, which is a good thing for you guys. It seems to be local in nature, very specialized services and ability to compete with Amazon and Azure because they're not competing necessarily with scale volume, they're competing in other ways. So I wonder if you could help us unpack that a little bit as to what's happening in your respective bases there. Yeah, so we're seeing a lot of momentum in the service provider space. So we've sold a lot of storage and data management over to, with the large new service providers of the world, right? The IBM softwares, right? The Azure's, Google Cloud Platform, all of them as well as the existing ones, the AT&T's and the Verizon's and Telefonica's of the world. And so we continue to see a fragmentation there, right? You kind of have the new world service providers, right? And the old world service providers. And they're all trying to figure out the business model so they can make sure that they're all going to be there over the next 20, 25 years to see how this whole game evolves, right? But we have a big footprint in both of those camps. And as a matter of fact, one of the things that I love about the relationship between NetApp and Veeam is we're companies that are embracing cloud. We're not fighting cloud, right? We're really trying to embrace it. So we have multiple offerings in terms of NetApp across our storage and data management across all the new emerging cloud players and the existing one. And Veeam also has pretty deep relationships. They just announced today in offerings, right? With AWS and with Microsoft Azure as well. Anything you'd add, Andy? Yeah, yeah, I think you're right about the market being a little bit more fragmented. There are smaller, more specialized cloud providers and customers, there's a set of customers that want that. So I think it kind of gets back to the point that I was making earlier, which is the consumption models are changing and who they consume from in terms of cloud is not 100% consistent. And so we need to be able to deliver the technology that can accommodate whatever that decision is that the customer makes. From a partnership perspective, how does something like this start? And what do you...  That's a logical starting point. But then there's maybe some other integration that has to take place. What do you guys sort of set out to accomplish? What are the milestones, the metrics that you try to... How do you measure success on a partnership like this? How do you know when it's gonna work and is working? Yeah, that's a great question.  And I think part of the secret of the success of the relationship, if you think back in terms of NetApp made a big bet in virtualized environments in doing big differential offerings with VMware, even though they're owned by EMC, right? And we were extremely successful. 50,000 joint customers. You look at Veeam, they made a big bet with VMware. So our installed bases and the co-innovation and development that we've done already there is already paid off there in spades. So number one, you gotta have the co-innovation and solution that you're building. The second thing is an aligned go-to-market, right? In terms of what is our go-to-market plan? How are we doing that through the channel? Is it a comprehensive program? What does that look like? And then it comes down to people at the end of the day and the culture. Do the companies have really good cultures and people that really wanna go out and execute those plans? Yeah, and we have strong alignment at the executive levels as well, which helps because you need to have that sort of strategic vision. You're looking at 18 months, 24 months, are we in alignment? And I think that helps. I would say another strong metric for Veeam is our net promoter score, 73, it's off the charts, it's fantastic. That doesn't happen if you're not delivering the right solutions with the right set of partners. And to us, that's just another metric of how successful are these partnerships, particularly the one that we have with NetApp. And actually, I looked at NetApp's net promoter score and we're 64, so we're way up there as well. So that's another area that we're very aligned. You know, NPS is interesting. I mean, if you're not really one product company, but you're smaller, and so it's easier to have a high NPS when you're smaller.  I wanted to be on that graph that's there on the keynote. That's pretty good. I was at service now last week and they have a very happy customer base and they were touting their, I think, 53 NPS. And that's those 60s for a company the size of NetApp.  Go ahead, Stu. Yeah, to the last piece, you talked about some of the announcements that were made that impact, including in V10, there's going to be NAS. We look forward to anything that we should be looking to measure success of the partnerships and anything that your companies are working on together that you can speak to. Well, I think at the end of the day, it's customers and revenue, right? Ensuring that that continues to grow.  I mean, they've got like 210,000 customers are growing at 445,000. 45,000 every day. They're adding 200 customers a day. Peter corrected me. Right, exactly.  Like I said, with cloud, you know, we're very aligned in both companies embracing cloud. Big opportunity to go after some of these service provider areas. Yeah, I mean, I think we're going to continue to focus on delivering joint solutions. That's really kind of, if I had to put my finger on one thing that, you know, watch this space, it's joint solutions that we want to put out to the marketplace that are going to benefit our customers. All right, we have to leave it there. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. It was great to see you. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back rocking New Orleans with theCUBE Veeamon 2017.


on your screen on your screen good good good good electricity only today is 2 hour class electricity only 2 hours right I always share the questions after the quiz yes it was told to me that's why 24 questions right day before yesterday only someone requested we want physics r to be of 2 hours it takes lot of time but the physics is 8 o'clock to 9 o'clock but Aditi this is like you just ruined whole fun only thing is today's questions are very easy like very very very easy where so it is 8 to 5 now ok so 4 people have already responded before the question got displayed ok cut into 5 equal parts how can you guys answer let's see randomly answer there the question is correct don't worry the question is correct ok I will explain that now look here look here there is only one possible answer exactly exactly exactly ok no explanation required all the question today are like this only no explanation required ok so who has the fastest one to respond who has the fastest one to respond no one ok front of J R and R very good front of how come 2 part Vita 5 parts no 5 parts see the question did not needed like looking at the option you don't even need how many parts the options are itself in the answers exactly are in looking at the option they don't need 5 parts right if there would have been one answer like 4 16 then you will be in need of ok whether it is 5 to 4 or what ok show get up next question it's like no brain have very good the tsunami of the responses is telling me it's going to be a hundred percent correct it will come just I am playing now there this is I square R V square by R V into I only I R square is something like everyone everyone everyone no problem no problem relax relax relax relax relax relax relax relax relax this is this can't be random this is selected one but it's ok I R square makes a confusing sense dear that's it right before that we have to see the game still we have to see the game don't tell me that we have to see the game yeah ok 2 people answered at the very same time have you 3 people oh damn 1 2 3 people have answered very same time wow wow it's Aniket Gupta it's Tarun M Gowda it's Pranav very good have you seen this earlier that 3 people simultaneously answering it the fastest one have you guys ever seen it earlier yes when 4 actually there is someone in the lower ranks also who is also who has also won 4 happened ok ok ok ok good good good good good here we go with the next one and this is my first timer with this kind of experience good good good good don't make a mistake here ok yeah this is the last episode of electricity now whatever happens if anything proceeds or not I am done with the questions yeah I am done with the types of questions actually I can repeat them checking whether you got the wow what is this no please guys don't play with me like this is like why why I guess there is an explanation required for this look here power you want me to write also don't please is directly proportional to square of the voltage right if voltage is reduced to half power will get reduced to 1 fourth ok guys no problem relax anyway let's check the leaderboard who is the fastest one five six people fastest shares moniesh two people anymore in the like lower ranks no one anyway one two and here we go with the next questions relax read and then respond until and unless yeah until and unless that's what I was going to say until and unless you remember it until and unless you remember it good no problem then read it and respond here is the beauty this is generating in me a big doubt toward the portal that is it cannot be the mistake of my dear friends here they cannot do this explanation required e r only those who need explanation very good make now very very good relax very good very good two conducting wires of same material and of equal length right or not two conducting wires of same materials and of equal length and equal diameter are first connected in series ok show and then in parallel electric circuit fine fine fine fine fine fine fine fine the ratio of the heat produced in series and in parallel combination will be now understand same material same length and same area by a jump mean that they are of equal rs yes or no why aren't why aren't show show show show show ok when they are connected in series which a it will make it to our show when they are connected in parallel it will make it r by 2 yes or no no doubt no doubt no doubt total heat produced here is v square by 2 r total heat produced here will be v square by r by 2 show what is required series by parallel that's why I did not applied to individual beta I applied to total resistance single wire when in series ok when in series when in series they will act as a single resistance of 2 r when in parallel they will act as a single resistance of r by 2 fine make now check here either you go by I square r method or you go by v square by r anyway it's going to be same but when you are going by I square by r I square in 2 r you will have to also calculate current why will I invest my time in calculation of current when voltage is constantly given not to me yes or no Meghana got it very good to everyone else who sent an explanation required ok there never shy out in asking whatever be the number of people over here whatever be the number of people marking it if there are 60 people 59 marked it a and they are correct you marked by your knowledge D and you are wrong then also please don't shy out from asking ok sure thank you very much and here we go with the next one before that a quick view at the leaderboard I don't want to invest my time here should I skip ok Siddharth is fastest only single person over here as fastest no problem no problem no problem here we go with the next one hahahaha beginning of the chapter day 0 of the chapter you know one of the ninth grader on my this kind of pain but whenever you laugh like this I feel someone is behind me and I have reduced the time also I wanted to keep it just like I wanted to keep it just 30 seconds but good people are telling what is the right answer what is the right answer ok I guess no explanation required guys may I proceed fastest people only one that to are intended at the last this man was struggling now answer the quickest beautiful dear no problem you will lead the game don't worry you are stuck in 14 couldn't get you Surya ok you are stuck in 14th rank ok today yes shuffling will be good but at the top and bottom levels intermediate level will remain like kind of static hahahaha no not required at all I can tell you now why why accidentally click please guys this one static electricity yes or no stationary charge moving charge you have the answer ok there is no word like moving electricity there cannot be positive electricity negative electricity ok so next leader board what is this Aditi what happened with it 6th question repeated for you like ok Gupta is leading now ok anyone else in the top ranks no our internet has elevated his level by one very good very good very good next but I have not sent 7th question to anyone 7th question is now on screen this is for at least for me reading these kind of questions I couldn't control sorry I just wanted to like close this chapter what is the point of these questions are there is a point of these questions really there is a point but easiness is a subjective term or in terms of physics is a relative term the time rate of flow of electric charge measures electric current not potential guys I is equals to Q by T knowingly just to relax you out one point is one point was ok and just keep it very basic I am like with a good you have seen all the episodes of center bar happening with for electricity every time I have came up with good questions was there any time when questions were not elevated level yes people are reminding me 24 hours there ok ok ok next chapter is good ok counted be light or magnetic effects of electric current is going to be good don't worry can we just like boom through the thingy and finish 24 questions 24 questions in one hour ok ready Rn doing good very good Rn next question very good 60 people have already spoken why is it not showing everyone has responded this you can tell by sleeping you know yesterday I was making your schedule ok because of the change in timing and all it was a big headache ok appearing to be 100% this can be electric charge need potential difference even without circuit it is happening in the form of lightening ok next people were telling me that the most one is getting very swana people getting equal scores one single and Gupta Aditya G went a bit up no probability ok sure but the cyclone will somewhat cause something question question question these questions can be handled very well beautiful beautiful beautiful beautiful beautiful these questions can be easily deal while playing call of duty right but still you guys are making mistake it's your question is good your question hurt me hey Bharadwaj please please keep your ears open that's it mind is not even required for these kind of information what's the code Rannia Rannia the code is 958021 better for that I'll have to plan act as of now I am at my home home with my parents and I am feeling pretty about your life when you lose the habit of staying with parents and then you will have to no it's not over Rannia we are 958021 is the code we are at some random question 52 people have answered it correct and let's see who has answered it fastest anyone whenever required any explanation please ask because it's just clarification of fundamental concept fundamental minute concepts if you are like confused between what is proton and neutron then you will be hit hard okay so just keep your brain when things go easy on a very smooth road it's a higher probability of getting scared okay talking in terms of a rider good good good good six question and still in same place oops no problem next question quickly this is fun for me reading these questions like options are same how can you tell that you are the first one I with my experience with that I don't know like only when the leaderboard is represented they show you know whether you are the fastest one or not good good good oh now this is the system is responsible for the yep so close to pizza with movie can happen but let me come now I want I'm dying for like today my brain was not from yesterday after my brain is not working I'm having frequent conversation with Tushar I want to come to Bangalore it's like the summer over central India is killing yeah I can relate with it now the beauty is the minor difference Aselesha answering the fastest very good Aselesha our intendant is at the ninth rank from quite a good time very good very good very good here we go now now it's going to be interesting confusing the device which measures electric potential water meter just like I was not getting option but I have not created I this is these are like these are not my my cadre of questions water meter is something someone will read in a hurry when they have to go vote for what meter and they'll read water meter in a quick hurry they will be like right good it should have been the first option then there is a probability water meter is nothing what is water meter nothing there is no one who selected T which proves that there is no technical glitch our intendant answering it the fastest very good very good very good so the ranks are kind of consistent now right mungara no one selected D that means there is no technical glitch right why why Surya you want your rank to move a bit it's not moving at all like static what's your rank Meghana like literally static not even a single up and down plus minus one Surya 11th 11th is Meghana ok Surya what's your 16th or something good good good good good good good good good anyway next let's see if something happens here Surya something happened RM jumped two places anything Surya good news of movement any mobility yeah exactly if one question here and there yes Meghana yeah why why to invest the energy of the type is right not today not today surely not today today I'll keep you relaxed promise ok everyone next leaderboard first are in just just just slide it a bit one step down I'm just looking at our in a slasher and I think they are also static over there ready Meghana moved a bit I emphasize on the word conventional your word is more difficult than the question Surya let's see are the two you just now prove that there is a requirement of these kind of questions but I can because see conventional current is somewhere here right 13th question this is done conventional current is from Paul convention means yeah yeah chala rise is being running like that I don't like horror movies yeah I don't know and no point of watching a horror movie like I know it's false no marvel hitters should come in there sir you know marvels are also false no so conventionally something happening from a long time as a rich like as a convention as a hmm ok so no requirement of changing because it's it's ok to do like that right so like that's what so initially it started ok current flows from positive negative it is happening but later it was realized what is my next question some change no change static a Gupta take to breath to deep breath don't make it like another CHK no beta you have only Saturday I have message you all all CHK has moved completely to Saturdays you full Saturday is being occupied by us oh oh oh oh oh oh Saturday law of electromagnetic induction hosted stated the mutual existence of electricity with magnetism ohm's law is the answer V is equals to IR Newton's law is there are many Newton's law which Newton law you are talking Newton law of sound Newton law of particle right don't know beta the orders to me were to plan for the war why the war is being fought I don't know about it I got the order plan for the war so I planned it ok more than you learn like I did the Bajaj answering is it the fastest beautiful and a huge jump three four people shares I think Gupta shares a common name now at the top list so good job very good very good don't start like talking like fifth grade cricket these are fifth grade kids go joke Newton fall Apple Apple stone hard ice and all that died and a hard apple and Newton died it's some people also like that and all that you know that even look the beauty of the question simple to show sir in Wikipedia like is there a Wikipedia data about the survey like that I don't think so yes we do are a he like why am I using the word we he is developing a good portal for Centrum car Wikipedia Centrum wiki and all that look here and he can't aren't answering it the fastest beautiful to look at it and here we go beautiful Pradeeksha I remember Mungara once answering by mistake to zero point seven eight five minute once zero point zero seven eight a no please please good good good good good good Surya piece fastest zero point three but Surya what is the rank now as it changed the question of the hour better this doesn't show everyone knows basic properties no everyone is a universal set you guys might have been through you sets right it should include everything who's that now who's that now fastest fastest a slasher Prada Prada new name coming in Gupta is also good good good good next question average 60 people I don't think so but it because many a time they will the beauty is if you now guess the question before it appearing with the help of options like if you can guess the next question that's the beauty will show me yeah now the option like concepts are clear because the concepts are sequentially arranged this is this is a good point raised by dear Prada Prada said key yes if you have a guess of where the option lies then you can keep the cursor there itself and then yes there is a probability that you can market right okay very good next Gupta answering it the fastest are in London very good Prada a slasher for people I have seen I am getting the Nirvana good good good good why is it not ending when like when everyone has responded it should like conclude right I did not you think Gupta I'll make this I'm laughing by reading the questions you know I was aware that it is simple I okay and I have not copied it like okay so I was aware that this is going to be simple but not this simple you can feel by the questions and I will die out of shyness if I if I create these kind of questions a is also correct okay this was 19th right in serious combination resistance increases due to increase in better length even if you not supply the current then also the final resistance will increase not the primary reason is length thank you very much for adding up to my vocab length of the like total wire length no he he know aren't I got your point but what he is thinking is in series more current will come more current will bring more I square R and all that then temperature will increase and all that but yes for that case the supply should on and more current or less current will also come by depending on the resistance right okay dear let's see the quickest who is who is who is who is Pranav and Gupta very good Pranav and very good Gupta very good very good very good aren't and like it's it's a static thingy make nice like quitting why what's your rank make my 11th from that long time make nice 9th good no make us good you were 11th you are 9 nice growth beautiful Gupta should also cry that I am only one from question number some I don't know what persistence may right is resistance joke good good good good Gupta very good very good okay that's good no problem no problem as you'll move top you will find yourself stuck now what is this here guys now you might see a good shuffle better when joined in parallel it's influenced by area guys please see now there is shuffle shares ah ha ha ha miss Bajaj lost it and dropped down to the 9th position aren't and then jump to the third question beautiful aren't Aditya G is has disappeared oh damn no he's there at the fifth sixth position okay okay okay he's there he's there oh beautiful what happened mungara let's see let's see the responses okay yeah exactly the primary motive was to keep it light and conclude see increase in series okay not this this one in parallel combination resistance decreases due to increase in area of cross-section increase in the stated what is the problem if it's done beautiful question like question of the millennium rather for already answered this question long back right see I thought you guys are equivalent to rather for so I am giving you a competitive question to him right you know also had this question in his life nithyananda this repetitive mc2 nithyananda ashnesha jumping up very good very good very good very good very good Surya out of all these things Surya is worried about why am I not moving Mehta also Mehta also one and this is how many people three people one thousand is not possible and you are like you are human right oh ashnesha what happened to you pranav jumped up big big time no this is different pranav 999 my but that also is like out of human control and all right good good good miss Bajaj was here she where is Aryan Dandan very good at the third place pranav J and R and R is maintaining his position and 995 appears 2.5 watt milliseconds homage singer human reflex time please I am not totally like I am asking you out of curiosity 2.5 seconds it takes for a human to respond okay but there are people answering in 0.9 seconds and all because they are getting this question 5 seconds early now oh oh oh oh got it wow beautiful nice I'll read about it now you have given me a good good curious point oh almost this is this is to be taken here this is to be taken alisha is like lit in calculation was that Gupta not answering Gupta was on that big leaf yes good very good very good very good very good very good next and this is going to be the last question okay whatever shuffle Surya Mera get ready this is your last chance yes dear in an atom particle having a negative charges called a neutron B proton C electron and din negative charge Charlie is correct yes dear negative charge which is time's up code is time's up dear time's up time's up time's up for the last question dear don't worry come on come on yes this is what is called if this was Gupta then this is what is called hard luck bacha ya dear bacha all good all good all good all okay all good all okay all good all okay lax lax lax where are you guys going so Mera what's your rank I'm sad about Gupta I'm really sad about Gupta Dax is static Meghana is like wow wow yeah kind of good good spirit of game good sportsman spirit no dear I know 24 question I just you you guys why we're feeling that generally we take 12 to 15 questions and all the beauty is we're finished on time and the beauty is which I wanted to like why I kept these questions simple but I world will be simple now you guys will be stuck where you are like today understanding it in order to grow it needs a difficult environment so if things are simple you will find it really difficult to grow your struggle will increase your struggle will increase because you will struggle you will perform but it won't pay off in at the level of competition when the world is difficult your struggle your efforts do pay off thank you very much for your time good night take care and proceed bye bye bye bye bye just keep proceeding to through the life and its obstructions are in single I hate you because you did not wish me to send you today what now soon there is like Subra 3 time now no the questions were enough torture today so I won't be torturing you with my signatures thank you very much for your time and love guys bye bye take care and get lost sir what was the last question dear it was like oh electron atom can that negative Kisko kate electron come so much like a boot dukha tum jeet ne wala da bada daco sir internet no question miss over here abhi aisa over na mera ko call kardiya karthu chal nasi prana was very internet connection chala hain hain hain dikha mera ko dikha mera ko doh doh question pe dikha doh question pe dikha doh question pe I could see it koi nahi koi nahi koi nahi dikha hai tu je pata hai you like prana was very very very as a good sportsman was telling kisar vo toh gupta hi jeet gaya it was just in the technical glitch at his end which made me win this is the word these are the words from prana the the current winner ok sure yes sir no problem buddy you played well no worry there are consistent quickest response ke liye wala bada hi kaya take care bye bye soo baraatri hain


That concludes topical questions. The next item of business is a statement by Keith Brown on update on the management of transgender individuals within prison custody. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement and so there should be no interventions or interruptions. I call on Keith Brown up to 10 minutes cabinet secretary. Thank you, Presiding Officer. There has been, of course, significant attention on the management of transgender prisoners over the course of the last week and I'd like to take this across the broad we are special well and castchees. Dawn er nifro we did, I would like to acknowledge the victims in those cases. We should never forget the victims of crime. I am sure that is true of everybody in this chamber and in that regard I was very impressed with the comments made by our contributor at time for reflection who said we should focus on what really matters I am recognised you would be new worth of each individual. I am very conscious of the importance of maintaining public confidence in the justice system rydym hyrda. That reason, I'm keen that that discussion around that issue is as calm and though on-fact available. The things that we say in here have real impacts on people and in the context of the criminal justice system, those are very often vulnerable people. We must not allow the legitimate questions that are being asked to fuel the view that transwomen somehow pose an inherent threat to women when that is not the case. Mynd i, mae'n ddweud yn rhan i gwrsiau ac yn rhan o ffraeg o'r prinsanareddau ar ddod i'r gael amser. Felly, rydw i'n ddweud, ac rydw i'n ddweud, mae'n ddweud yn rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r prinsanareddau ar gyfer o'r prinsanareddau eich cyfnod o rhywpeth, oedd yn ddweud 20 rhai o rhan o'r 7,367 prinsanareddau. Mae'n ddweud ond ond mae'n cyfrubwyr. Yng Nghymru yw'r un'r 17 oes y wneud. Mae ymi'r maen nhw'n mynd i'r cael eu cyfrwyrau yn y gyffredigdau yn cyfrwyr y maen nhw. Felly, i Allanedd Pwyllfaenau, mae'n dwi gydag sydd gywedieithio pa'r Cymysgatwr Cymreidiau a chyfrwyr whiffadau fod yn gynhyrchu ar hyn agmaeith, ddiwethaf cyfnodau cyfrwyr nhw'n cyfrwyr fe sgulio yw'r ym disturb ymgynghoriadau neu mewn cymrydion, mewn gwneud cyfrwyr o'r cyfrwyr cymdeithasol, diwethaf, oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd yn gweithio i gael prescribech, a oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd oedd. The existing SPS process supplies equally to the arrangements within which the SPS makes decisions about transgender prisoners. Their gender identity and gender reassignment policy, adopted in 2014, in dialogue with the relevant stakeholders, including criminal justice and inequalities organisations, A penderfyniad i gyd yn ffordd i gynnig oedd yn Myndidol yn rhanig i'w prydyniau sydd agor ei gweld gyda'r hawddol i gyd yn gyfosiaeth iddyn nhw, a chymser i eich rysg acesbydd bernadau oedd y ffritigol yn mwyaf gwyllwch. Rydyn ni na'n mynd i chi, diwylliannolau rhesymau oedd gennymau o'r pardoned ac oedd yn gweithio'r pardoned a bair. Rydyn ni na'n mynd i chi, diwylliannolau oedd gennymau o'r pardoned a bair o'r pardoned a bair o'r pardoned. there's no automatic right for trans women to serve a sentence in a femail prison or indeed for a trans man to be in the male estate. The prison's service retains the ability to place people in a prison that may not correspond to its identified gender. Instead, they make the decisions based on a rigorous and robust individualized interest assessment, taking account of all the relevant factors, including the safety of individual and of other prisoners i ddweud yn cyfnodol. Rwy'n ddweud yn gweld yn ddweud yn y gymwyl iddyn nhw gŷtodd, mae'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud hynny yn ddweud yn cyfnodol. Felly, mae'n ddweud yn rhan o'r cyfrifol ar gyfer y Gwyrddol a'u spes sy'n ddweud yn cyfrifol ar gael o'r ddweud. Ond, dyna'r cyfrifol yn gallu cystafol yw'r ddweud gweld yn cyfrifol o'r ddweud ac yn cyfrifol ar gyfer y cwysylltu.  Mae'r ddweud i ddweud i gyrtaeth Cysybodaeth, Waith geson y cyfransgladau hynny, a gwnddyn nhw'r ddyn nhw'r ddweud i ddweud i gyrtaeth cyfransgladau hynny? ac mae'n hyn oedd eich ddau i'r rôl ysgafodd ar gyfer y prifysgol gyda'r rai cymryd yn cymryd i'r Rhys-Thyrm Prysgol, ac mae'n cymryd i'r Rhys-Thyrm Prysgol. Mae'r ddau i'r Rhys-Thyrm Prysgol ar gyfer y prysgol, a'r ddau i'r Rhys-Thyrm Prysgol i'r polisi ac i'r pradysgol. Ond mae'r ddau i'r prysgol wedi gwybod, mae'n ddau i'r prysgol i'r ddau i'r maen nhw that the SNP was, of course, aware of ministers' views. It would be frankly bizarre if they were not aware of ministers' views, but it remained an operational decision for the SNP based on the information available to it. I should also make clear, given that this issue has been raised, that the decision to initially accommodate this prisoner in HMP, delight and veil, while the risk assessment was done, was made without ministerial involvement nor indeed awareness and in line with existing procedures. The other individual identified arwadhoddiad yn ei ddaeth yn yr hyn.  Yn helpul ddiwedd, mae SPS' gwrdd ystyried cyrraedd ac yn ysgrifprisyniadion gyda'r cyfnod o'r sgwrt i'r ddwyllgor a'r ddweud. Felly, mae'n cydweithio gan fwyllgor amser yn ddiwethaf ar gaelais ioweithio i wedi'i dweud yn 2022, ac rwy'n oedd bod athneud sefydig y prydysyniadion a'r ddweud honno a'r ddiwethaf. The draft revised policy will be independently assessed by experts in women affected by trauma and violence. The review is expected to be completed in the coming months and we will ensure that Parliament is kept informed given the strong interest that there is in this issue. SPS is also now undertaking an urgent lesson-learns review in relation to the case of Islay Bryson, with any learning to be applied immediately to existing transgender cases in the prison estate and any coming into custody. That review will report to the SPS chief executive at the end of this week, and I will write to the criminal justice committee to update on the outcome of this next week. The timescales for any subsequent action will depend on the findings. Until those reviews are complete, no transgender person already in custody with any history of violence against women, including sexual offences against women, will be moved from the male to the female estate. In addition, no newly convicted or amended transgender prisoner with any history of violence against women will be placed in the female estate. For clarity, this definition includes any history of violence and violence, including sexual offences. It is felt that, following through with robust risk assessment and taking account of all relevant factors, there are still exceptional circumstances in particular cases that will require the approval of ministers. That is not dissimilar to the situation that was announced last week in England and Wales. The prison service will seek ministerial approval for those particular cases, which will not change the general position that decisions on the management and accommodation of prisoners within the prison estate have been and will continue to be operational matters for the Scottish prison service. That is in keeping with the delegated authority under which the prison service operates and in line with the public interests in that matter. Those arrangements will allow for exceptional circumstances to be considered and agreed whilst the reviews are in progress. It is right that the actions that we have taken will continue to ensure that we respect and protect the rights of trans individuals wherever they are in society, including within our prisons, and that we continue to consider and protect the safety of all prisoners and staff. In conclusion, the actions that I have announced on which the SPS are progressing aim to provide immediate assurance in the context of the public concern raised by the two recent cases. The outcome of the reviews being progress will ensure that any immediate lessons are learned from the issues that have been identified by those cases. At the wider review of the prison service's current policy on the management of trans prisoners and the subsequent application of this policy, take account of relevant factors, including input from experts in women affected by trauma and violence. Ultimately, it is vital that future decisions about the location and management of prisoners continue to be based on thorough risk assessment, drawing on the expertise and input of relevant professionals, with the priority of ensuring that all individuals that work in our prisons and that people in the care of our prison staff are kept safe. That will always be the absolute focus of the Scottish Prison Service. The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues that were raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions after which we will move on to the next item of business. I will be grateful if all members who wish to ask a question were to press their request-to-speak buttons now. I call Russell Finlay. Thank you, Presiding Officer. They say that a week is a long time in politics, while only six days ago I asked Keith Brown about a double rapist in a women's prison and he stood right there and backed the decision to send this sex offender to Cardinville. Less than 24 hours later, Nicola Sturgeon was forced into a humiliating U-turn and the rapist was rightly removed. What I want to know is this. Now that Keith Brown tells us today that ministers have no awareness of this rapist's move to Cardinville, will he explicitly state that none of his officials had prior knowledge and will he publish a detailed timeline of those critical events, including all correspondence? First of all, to say that what we have just said and the further assurance that was provided over the weekend does not of itself say that any different decisions would be made by the Scottish Prison Service in relation to those two cases that have been made. The changes that have been announced in terms of the public assurance that is handy does not change the Scottish Prison Service's procedures. In relation to further information, I am pretty sure that this is going to be discussed both in this chamber and in this Parliament's committee. I've mentioned already, I'm writing to the committee, I've written to the committee today and I'm writing to the committee against next week. In the meantime, I'm happy to look at the request which Russell Finlay has made and as far as it's possible, I'm happy to provide the information if I can that he's asked for. Katie Clark. As the cabinet secretary says, we are talking about a small number of people. The current policy was devised in 2014 without the experiences and interests of women being taken into account. Will the cabinet secretary now withdraw this 2014 policy, put a hold on transfers and give an undertaking that there will be a full scrutiny of the draft revised policy, including a debate in this chamber? Just on the last point that Katie Clark raises, it's not for me to schedule the business of this Parliament, but members are able to ask for that debate if that's what the Parliament was used to have. Just to say in relation to ensuring that the policy is a very legitimate point, it takes account of the interests of women, and in this case particularly women prisoners. I can say that there has been already that consultation. I think that I confirmed this last week as well. I am also aware of the responses to that consultation, both concerns raised and other aspects of that response. If it's possible for me to not breach any confidentiality in providing that information, which is quite granular information about the cases raised, then I will certainly do that. I'm happy now to give that assurance to Katie Clark that the scheduled review, which has been impact of course by the pandemic, is now at the stage of having to be considered both by legal services to make sure that it fits into the legal framework and also being discussed with the trade unions involved. You may have heard from the general secretary of the SPOA today on that issue. Those are the two remaining parts to that review. Those will be carried out, and we will bring forward the review in due course. Of course, it's then up to Parliament should it wish to decide to debate those findings. Audrey Nicholl, to be followed by Rachel Hamilton. Does the cabinet secretary agree with me, Mr Phil Fairlie, the Scottish Secretary of the Prison Officers Association, who said this morning that the prison service is best placed to make those decisions? I have, as I said before, complete confidence in the prison service's ability to deal with the operational matters. Given the public concern of the recent cases, I think that it was right to bring absolute clarity to the position and therefore to the position that has been set out to achieve that. I think that there are a number of other interesting quotes from the general secretary as well to the extent to how he says that the system has worked extremely well, providing safety for prisoners and for prison staff, for whom he has obviously a particular responsibility, and I think that it would be useful for our people to look. Those who are very concerned about the safety of prisoners' women and others will look at the comments of Phil Fairlie in the interview that he conducted today, and they would seek and I think find some real reassurance about the processes that are being followed. Ministers intervened and overturned the decision to send double-race rapist Isla Bryson to a female prison, yet an equally violent sex pest, Katie Dullartofsky, was sent to Caughton Vale last year with no questions asked. It seems that the First Minister has abandoned her self-id policy for prisons, or is it just the case that women's safety and dignity only matters to the SNP when it makes front-page news? With the First Minister that says that women's concerns are not valid and red flags for other single-sex services such as women's domestic shelters, does the cabinet secretary still back the principle of gender self-id? I do support the principle of gender self-id. I have just said it to Rachael Hamilton. Presumably she does not believe me when I tell her that the decision was not overturned. The decision was taken by the Scottish Prison Service as to where Isle of Blair was taken in terms of the male estate. That was a decision taken by the prison service. It was not taken by ministers. It is really hard to proceed on the basis of a calm and considered debate on these things if the facts are misrepresented in that way. I have confidence in the way that the prison service has conducted those and I do believe in gender self-id. Can the cabinet secretary clarify if any legislation is needed to implement any changes in policy direction following the review, or if any legislation has an impact on the review? I will just say of course that any further action will be determined on the outcome of the wider policy review and any legislative changes that are required will be taken forward if that is the case in the ordinary course of these things. I should say though that the Scottish Prison Service policies have in no way been changed or impacted by the recent passing of the Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which in any event I think as most of us know is not yet in force. Why was the convicted rape as referred in the statements, Destination Change from a Burnlyny Prison to Cortenvale Prison in the first place? Why has the Government repeatedly defended the SPS risk assessment as being robust when clearly it was not robust because as previously mentioned, these risk assessment rules allowed a pedophile to go to Cortenvale and ministers knew it because I raised it directly with them. If there are any lessons to be learned here, does the cabinet secretary agree that it is also the Government that should learn some lessons to include the safety of women when they are looking at prison policy? Can I say that in the first point that was raised by Pauline McNeill as to why was it changed from the person mentioned going from Burnlyny to Cortenvale? That is not a decision for ministers. We are not involved in that. Despite what said there on the fact, you would not be aware of that. That is between the court service and the prison service. It was also entirely consistent with the Scottish Prison Service policy from 2014 that that would be the prison. The women's estate, which is the woman identified as a woman, that would be the normal practice. At that point, as the member I am sure will be aware, many of our prisons have both male and female in the estate. That is true of a number of prisons, for example, such as Poman, Edinburgh, Greenock and Grampian. However, as the general secretary pointed out, it is only pending that no interaction with the general population is segregated, pending that assessment and then replacing what has happened in this case in the male estate. I cannot comment on further individual cases that I mentioned. I am happy to discuss offline, if it is possible, to do that with Pauline McNeill and the other case that she mentioned. However, it is the case, as I have demonstrated in relation to the wider review that has been taken forward at this stage, that the interests, the views of women in particular, have been taken forward, have been listened to, have been canvassed and will form a part of the consideration of that wider review. I think that that is just as it should be. Gillian Martin, to be followed by Alex Cole-Hamilton. Thank you, Presiding Officer. When the media takes hold of an issue, it can be difficult for us and the general public to know the factual detail behind the stories that make the headlines and, given the confidential nature of the information, difficult for those in authority to answer those claims directly. Yet, risk assessments for placement of transgender people in prison have been in place in years in Scottish prisons. The public needs to be reassured that the SPS risk assessment process for the placement of prisoners is sufficient to protect the prisoner and others in the particular unit that they are placed in. I ask the cabinet secretary if, as part of the proposed SPS policy review, there will be a review of those risk assessment processes and how will Parliament be able to scrutinise those reviews? The public should be reassured about the processes that are currently in place. In that, I would regard the track record of the prison service as demonstrating exactly how effective they are. Once again, I would go to those who have to work on the front-line relation to this, their representatives, trade union representatives, saying that they have been used to doing this over many years and do it very successfully. It is one of many challenges, of course, which they face. Just on the point that Gillian Martin raises as to whether the review will take into account that assessment, the wider review will look at the management of transgender prisoners as a whole. It will take in every element of that. In order that the Parliament, of course, can have it say that we will update the committee once that work has been finalised. Alex Cole-Hamilton to be followed by Collette Stevenson Thank you very much indeed, Presiding Officer. From the outset, the Scottish Liberal Democrats believe that anyone who has committed sexually violent crimes and who pose a risk to women should not be housed with women on the female prison estate. That is a view shared by both Scottish Trans and Crisis Scotland. That will have been a very triggering and bruising episode for survivors of sexual offences and for the trans community. That is dented public trust in prison safeguarding as well. If he is confident that the outcomes of those reviews will be enough to restore that public trust and what further steps his Government plans to take to reassure people and to heal the divisions in our society. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for his question and on the last point. I think that, first of all, to make sure that we can discuss those things in a civilised way with reference to the fact is very important in taking some of the heat out of this. I recognise that. I recognise also what he says about the position of the Liberal Democrats in relation to the safety of women prisons and also he cites, I think, the Scottish Women's Aid and Rape Crisis Scotland, a organisation that was being demonised until very recently, wrongly in my view. Those are perfectly legitimate concerns and that is why we took forward those initiatives. I would say that I do believe that that trust is well placed just now within the prison service, but of course it is right that you should continually monitor especially such sensitive processes and that is exactly what is happening in terms of the review. So, hopefully, that review will provide further reassurance to the public and to the organisations whom he rightly cites about the effectiveness of the processes that we have within our prisons. Does the cabinet secretary agree that it is crucial that the experience of prison staff is vital in dealing with this issue and their views, as well as their safety and wellbeing, should be a consideration in the review? I agree with that and I think that I have already said that the process that the review is following is now entering into the stage of the consultation with trade unions and it is already heard from other groups, as I have mentioned. We should never just accept that that is what prison officers are there to do and they should take, if you like, what comes their way in terms of the risk that they are confronted with. They have to be consulted. I do draw a lot of comfort from what we have heard from representatives of prison staff about the way things are currently working, but, of course, it is right, as we go forward to review those processes, that the views of prison staff, who also share some of that risk that has been described, are taken into account and listened to. I am struck by the line in the CABSEC statement that says that we must not allow the legitimate questions that are being asked to fuel the view that trans women somehow pose an inherent threat to women when that is not the case. The cabinet secretary will be aware of recent data that shows an increase in attacks against trans people. Does he agree that the weaponising of trans prisoners by certain individuals will only serve to make trans people more vulnerable, and can he comment on how we can ensure that no prisoners are made less safe because of recent events? On the last point, I think that I have tried to describe how we can try to keep prisoners safe. Of course, there is a heightened sense of that, as Maggie Chapman will understand among staff in those in our prisons just now because of that. It is also true to say that I agree that I made the comment about the fact that the position of trans women is perhaps the best way to provide that reassurance, as I have said already, to discuss those things in a calm way, which takes into account the position of how we can keep everybody safe. It is perfectly legitimate for people to question whether we are doing that effectively, although not I think that we are. However, if we can do that in such a way that recognises that the primary concern of us all is the safety of prisoners, all prisoners and the safety of the staff concerned, then we can have a debate that should not unnecessarily give rise to what Maggie Chapman rightly draws attention to, which is the increasing number of hate crimes or hate incidents against trans people, a very substantial increase. We should always be mindful of that. The cabinet secretary will be aware of an important but very pertinent amendment that I had passed and absorbed into the recent gender legislation, which placed the statutory duty on the Government to report on the placement of transgender prisoners within the prison estate. The SPS review was due last summer. We have no idea why that has been delayed and, frankly, its absence has perhaps not helped the current situation and the heat around this debate. Irrespective of what happened to that recent legislation, will the Government commit to that reporting requirement in the spirit of transparency and, in my view, an ask that requires no legislation but is a sensible and prudent ask of the Government in light of recent events? I think that, first of all, it is a sensible suggestion, but if the member will forgive me, I think that I will have the further discussion, one of which we are due to have tomorrow with the committee and see how the committee would best like that taken forward. However, I have no objection to the imprincipal point that is made. I think that, given the public interest, it is as well that, as many people as possible, they are aware of all the facts. There are some very unfounded statements circulating, for example, on social media. I think that the idea of further reporting—I have already mentioned the extent to which I am trying to keep the committee involved, having written to them today, writing again next week the commitment after the reviews to go back to the committee, so the one next week will be about the short-term review that will report this week and, of course, the wider review. Just to say on the point about the delay to the wider review, that was hugely impacted by Covid, and it is taken very seriously. I have mentioned already, as well as the analysis and consultation that has taken place. We are now at the stage of the discussion with the trade unions and with legal services to make sure that it is absolutely as it should be. I agree that it would be more useful for us to have had that now, but the pandemic cannot be wished away, and that is what has caused the delay. I think that we all agree that it is important that human rights of all parties are considered unbalanced in the placement of any prisoners. Can the cabinet secretary provide assurance that that will continue to remain at the core of considerations? I am absolutely happy to give that reassurance. Even if we want a different option, no option, but to do that in any event is the right thing to do, so I am happy to provide that assurance that, for example, the SPS is undertaking a rigorous human rights impact assessment as part of the wider policy. Whether it is the change that the UK Government announced last week, or whether it is what we are talking about, the same regard for human rights has been incorporated in those statements, and I am sure that that will be the case going forward. Cabinet secretary, forgive me, but I am struggling to understand how a male, whether he considers a trans woman or not, that is charged with rape and or other sexual offences, is not considered a threat to female prison population. Can I ask the cabinet secretary, was he fine with rapists being placed in female prisons until last week, or was he unaware of such cases, and therefore not on top of his portfolio? I have already explained to the member that the person that is being talked about here was transferred to Gordon Vale in accordance with existing policy into a segregated unit where there was not interaction with the rest of the population. It is also true to say, as I have mentioned, that we have male and females in a number of the prison estates that we have here in Scotland. Yes, I do believe that the assessment, the assessment of that threat or that risk, is carried out by people who are far more expert in this. I think that we need to hear the cabinet secretary's response, thank you. I am convinced that those people are far more expert in making that judgment than I would be, or indeed that the member would be. That is where the threat and risk should be properly assessed. Of course, as I have said, we should always continue to review that and to improve that as much as we can, and that is the purpose of the wider review. I call Neil Bibby to be followed by Michelle Thompson. We have heard the issues in relation to trans prisoners in the women's estate. The cabinet secretary has described some of the circumstances following risk assessment where a trans prisoner is more appropriately held in the men's estate. In that circumstance, can I ask what protections are in place for women and prison officers within the men's estate, and, specifically, can he confirm that the policy would not require a women's prison officer to carry out intimate searches on such a prisoner? I can say first of all that the processes of the Scottish Prison Service take into account that eventuality and also to say that really, as well as the risk assessments that I have discussed so far in relation to, in this particular case, trans women, risk assessments are day and daily part of the business of the prison service. On the day that the story broke last week, I was visiting the prison service, which was around a presentation about how they managed the different serious organised crime groups within prisons, which is a huge task, much more so than it has been in the past. I may now have serious organised crime individuals in every single prison in Scotland, so the risk assessment, whether it is a trans woman that is in the male estate or in the female estate or a trans man or other individuals, the risk assessment is carried out in accordance with what the risk that that individual may present, and they are placed according to that. I am happy to provide further information on the training in relation to the other issue that Neil Bibby has addressed, but I can assure him that it is a risk assessment undertaking for everybody entering the prison system. The cabinet secretary has mentioned consultation with women prisoners on a number of occasions. Can he highlight today how many specifically were consulted with what they were asked, what methodology was used and so on? If he is not able to do that, will he agree to publish it? I will first of all check in terms of any confidentiality agreements that were maybe entered into when those people were surveyed and asked about the questions and the review that was undertaken. However, I am happy to provide as much information as is possible to Michelle Thomson. As I say, I will check on those facts first and see what information can be passed on. Just to say that it was a substantial number of, in this case, women that were consulted on this provided their views. I am not certain of the basis on which those views were provided, whether it is a confidentiality requirement or not, but I am happy to provide as much information as I am able to do. The cabinet secretary is training credulity to suggest that nothing has changed when everyone can see what has happened, but does it not all just go to show—the events of the past week go to show—that the amendment put forward to the GRR bill by Russell Finlay and Michelle Thomson should have been accepted by the Government and not dismissed as unnecessary when clearly events show it is necessary? I think that the concerns that underlay that amendment were not dismissed at all. In fact, that is demonstrated by the acceptance of a competent amendment that was lodged by Gillian Martin, which had the effect, for example, of allowing the police service should they have concerns about an individual applying for a GRC to be stopped in that process by putting in place a prevention order. Those concerns were legitimate. I think that they were agreed by this Parliament in a piece of legislation that was passed by a very large majority in this Parliament by representatives of all parties, and I just wish that democratic process has been respected elsewhere. That concludes the statement point of order, Russell Finlay. Thank you very much. The cabinet secretary relied on comments made in his answers from an SPOA official. I understand that this official is also an SNP politician. Can you give me some guidance around the declaration of interests for members? I thank the member for his point of order. On the basis that the person referred to is, I understand, an SNP official. I am not entirely sure that it would be for the cabinet secretary to go into the CV of the person concerned. I think that that would be a matter for others to do, if they wished, and the member has put that on the record.