from the chair here on Think Tech at the 12 noon block on a given Monday. And the chair refers to Jay Griffin, the chair of the PUC here here on Energy 808. And Marco Mangelsdorf, my co-host and contributor, regular contributor is here to introduce Jay and to introduce the scope of our show today. Marco, the floor is yours. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, Jay and Jay. It's, can't think of a better day, a better way to spend my Monday than to be with the Jay brothers, the wonderful dear twin brothers of rather different mothers. We only have half an hour, Marco. You're a party pooper, man. So great to have you back on the show, Jay Griffin. And we're all leaders and we're so pleased to, do you have some time in your busy, busy day there at the public utilities commission to spend with us. So thank you so much, Jay, for being with us. Yeah. Thank you, Jay, for being with us. It's great to have the PUC chair come around, give us an update, you know, inform the public about what's going on. It's a fabulous, fabulous process and we really appreciate it. So it's good to be here. Great to have you. So let me, let me just go through at least some of the things we wanted to talk about. I guess the first thing, and we talked about this before, and it's coal. What's the status of coal? It was supposed to end by statute, September 2022. We're online for that. What are the steps that are necessary? What's the PUC's involvement? Jay, you're correct. By law now we, the PUC is unable to extend the current contract with the coal plant. It's an independent power producer here on Oahu. And so by September 2022, next year, plan is for that plant to come offline. It's a major, largest source of energy, a major power plant for this island. And we've been working for years towards this. We have a suite of large number of projects that are intended to replace it. I think the last time I was on here, we just had a a tense status conference with Juan Electric on the status of those projects. And we've been working really hard after that. And actually that work started long before that. And you had Scott Glenn on here also with the governor's powering past coal task force. And so in the course of numerous meetings, follow up to that and really putting into place a number of contingency actions. I think what I said in our status conference last year is we appear to be turning a corner on bringing enough resources online so that we have, you know, can assure reliability both next year. It's a multi-year process as you dig into this. So the first key hurdle is next fall, next September in particular. And then there's another major one the following summer. So when we look at the timeline of new projects and new programs that have been approved, really the first time last week that Juan Electric showed that we have, you know, I think reliability results metrics that are no worse than the current state of reliability in that time frame. Actually the demand for electricity is highest in the fall. So that's really kind of one of the gaps we have to shoot here is that we're taking plants offline when power demand is possibly going to spike. And really the critical point is that we're going to, Juan Electric will be adjusting their scheduled maintenance for other plants to keep as much of the other generating units online during that time frame. We're going to have another numerous programs with customer-cited storage coming online ahead of there. We'll see how much we get online. We just approved up to 50 megawatts of a emergency demand response also being called scheduled dispatch. It helps with the transition here. And we have proposals from at least two of the other solar projects on how they can accelerate their timelines to come ahead of some of these de-hurtles. So putting all that together is more encouraging news than we had in the past, but it's still going to take, you know, very attention to details with the schedules for all these projects. We really can't see any more. We need to keep seeing things move ahead of time and not slide. And that's always the challenge with, you know, schedule management for such a large set of projects. So there's a lot of hands on this now. The Governor's Task Force includes the Mayor and the Department of Planning permitting on this island, as well as the other executive agencies that have some permitting role for these projects. Really the first time, at least more in the state's history, we have all of those players in the same room comparing schedules to make sure we can keep the whole group on time. But I think, you know, those are all positive, positive moves since our last meeting, but the reality here is that this is going to cost us and it's going to cost us in a variety of ways. And that's been incredibly frustrating for the Commission. We've said that, I've said it. So there's going to be direct costs for some of these projects that we may have to pay to bring online sooner. The contingency plans are all going to cost us. And, you know, we've got to do better than that, that these are costs attributed to basically the delays of the projects that we've had. So that's been rough and rough for all of us. The silver lining here is that actually when you put all of these new plans together, we have a pathway to retire in total five units on Oahu, but not just the AES plan, but potentially four units of the YL power plant on Pearl Harbor. And we're seeing a similar pathway for retirement of old fossil fuel units on Maui, and then hopefully the Big Island as well. But I think there will be a ton we can learn from and benefit into the future. But that's the full rundown of where things stand at least from my perspective. Well, it sounds encouraging and better than it was sounding before. It also sounds like the devil is in the detail and that my guess is you're going to have continuing conversations to make sure these dreams come true. Am I right? Yeah, this is something we're going to have to track closely through the rest of this year, 2022, 2023, because the timeline for a number of these projects is not till 2023. And I talked about the schedule, the maintenance schedule for one electric plant. So part of the plan here is to keep them online in the fall of 2022. But at some point, you've got to take them off to continue the maintenance process. And so that really comes up in the summer of 2023. So we've got to play catch up at that point. And by then, the schedule intends to have enough other the different projects and programs online to account for that. But there's really not really much of any room for slipping that any further. We've lost a lot of that capability from the initial delays. You know, it's interesting that we have multiple agencies and organizations, business interests working all at the same time. The deadline, the original deadline, the AES deadline for September 2022, that came from the legislature. And it's an interesting government experience to see a deadline established by the legislature, possibly without reference to some of the details here and the challenges of doing it by that date. And I wonder, you know, your thought about the general process of planning the transformation of energy, should it work that way? Will it work that way in the future? So you're right. It was, it was a legislatively, well, actually the deadline was triggered by the end of the contract with the coal plant. So I was going to come up either way and legislator and to be clear, most of the actually all the major players here all supported the legislation. The final version was last summer ending that deadline. That actually happened before we're informed of the delays at the time we're looking at having a number of these projects all online in time. So that is a gap in information here has been a significant concern to the commission. We continue to highlight it. But to your broader point, Jay, I do think it's important that we pick, you know, we try and draw a line in the sand on this and plan around it. And if you look at some of the commission's subsequent actions, we've done what we term financial retirement of a power plant. And so for two of the YL units, we've said that one electric will need to take their current costs of those off the books on a date certain. And then, you know, based on what they've submitted to us. And then we plan around that because if we have a firm timeline for when things have to be online and the rest is flexible, you know, that's how you end up in the situation. So we need, I think that setting those sorts of deadlines is the discipline that's needed to organize all the different players here. So I think, you know, I think we'll look at something similar on Maui and in the future as we identify what resources are needed to retire other plants. I think we'll see this repeat otherwise, right? You're just going to see the timeline slide. Am I right to think that by the time you retire, or the coal plant is retired here in Oahu in the September of 2022 and in Maui 2023, that is that will be the end of coal in Hawaii? Yes, there's no more coal plants. I just, I would, I can't see how anyone would build another one or try and repower one. So I think, I think it's fair to say it'll be certain at least for power generation, a coal plant can be used for other fuels for other activities, but we don't really have any of that here. Well, Marco, let me ask you to propose a question to Jay about Oahu, because we've talked about that a number of times and it's your turn. Thank you, Jay. I'm going to make a comment that I want to have just heard before I go to who I'll know, which is, you know, my mind clearly it's the Hawaiian Electric companies and the PUC who have had, I'll say, shared responsibility in terms of bringing this AES thing to a successful close. And going back to that status conference of March where Senior VP Colton Ching voiced his concern about a so-called type reserve margin. Seems like things are better. Seems like you're a little bit less concerned, might take Jay Griffin, in terms of progress, having been made over the past three months or so. So, you know, my takeaway is that Hawaiian Electric got AES, Kapolei Energy Storage, and that the responsibility while still shared between the PUC and Hawaiian Electric to my, in my mind, has kind of subtly shifted more towards Hawaiian Electric now that they are getting kind of sort of more or less what they want. They wanted KES very much, they got it under certain conditions. And then, and as we move forward, you know, roughly a little more than a year from now, you know, all eyes on them and on the commission as well, but especially on Hawaiian Electric to execute, to execute and make sure that there's adequate margin, adequate reserve to be able to handle demand once AES goes offline. So, moving to Hu Honua, as we all know, the Supreme Court issued a ruling. Or did you want to comment on that, Jay Griffin? I don't want to just blah, blah, without giving you a chance to respond. Let's see, a couple of things. Look, if you look at what we went through last week, it's more than just that one project. We need all the contingency plans that we've worked on so far, including all the customer side resources actually fill the gap and the interim. So I think that what has, I want to be clear when you say level of comfort, for me, it's only a level of lost sleep. And so is it the extreme for, you know, three months ago was, and for this three months before that, six months before that, it was extreme. You know, I mean, when we say we got to keep the lights on, we mean it. So that, you know, level of comfort means that we have enough, I think we have diversified the risk here to make sure we have enough resources online in a way that will do that. But again, it will cost us more. You know, what hasn't been as well discussed is, you know, we're depending on keeping all the other units online, which means we're going to burn oil until we bring the other solar projects online. And if you look at the cost of oil right now, that is going to cost us more. You know, I brought that up in the March conference. And so, you know, again, we're going to be dependent on the oil markets for the initial cost here. So when you talk about responsibility for execution, I agree. But that is actually shared as well. And that's partly why we have the other agencies on this task force, is it does it, a lot of these projects depend on getting other approvals. And so I think having that level of shared responsibility is going to help and just, you know, greater attention to the to the matter as well. Because you can't, you know, if we come up in August of next year and find that we're short, you know, you can't fix it in that timeframe, we've had the course correct, you know, you need months and years to do this. So it is why we had to you know, we try to avoid canoe paddling comparisons. But if you've ever, when you have to steer the canoe, and when the steersman has to course correct hard, it's difficult on everyone. But it's better to do that than lose course. So the net positive for you, my friend Jay Griffin is your sleep sounds like it's less, a bit less disrupted. You're sleeping hopefully a little bit better. But yeah, but no, again, it is responsibility for all of us here. But yeah, execution will depend a lot of it, a lot more of, and it will come down to a lot more of the technical side now. We got to get the interconnection facilities in on time.  There's a lot of fine tuning with all the different control systems. So you know, we need the cooperation of all the different parties to see each of those go smoothly. So they build some time into their schedules to do that. But you know, we need more wins than, you know, the alternatives for this to go as smoothly as it could. Okay, so so taking Elon Musk's hyperloop from Honolulu to Hilo and up the Hamakua Coast, we have this power plant, which has been being built for quite a number of years. Supreme Court decision not too long ago remanded some stuff back to you and your colleagues there, Jay. I know you really can't say much substantively about who Honolulu, but what can you tell us perhaps about the timeline about the schedule? What do we what do we have to look forward to in terms of when an evidentiary hearing, for example, may be taking place? Yeah. And since I took so much time on the first topic, I'll give some back on this one. The decision was formally remanded last week. It goes last Thursday. Okay. Working on our procedural order. So answers. Stay tuned. Okay. That was that was a short and quick and sweet answer. That's a terrific answer. Yeah. What about PGV, Puneji, a thermal venture? What's happening with that and the need or perhaps not so much the need for an EIS? Yes, I think on this one, I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify a couple of things. One, I think there was some confusion. We actually had two approvals or dockets for our commission. First one was dealing with the rebuilding of the transmission lines. And so we approved that, I believe it was almost a year ago now, I believe it was right before July 4th. And so that's allowed the plant under its current PPA to come back online, which they have been doing. And during the course of that, we asked for it and they said they'd been working on it for a renegotiated amended PPA. And that's what came in at the end of 2019. And what is proposed there is both an expansion of the plant and an extension of the term for another 30 years. And until we saw that or until everyone saw that was not exactly clear what would be necessary. And so they're going back, I think actually into 2019 as the docket looking at the transmission line, people were asking whether new environmental review was needed. And they were focused on transmission line question. Actually, if you look at the analysis at the time, the new PPA hadn't even been submitted yet. On the question of the transmission line, I take it, I wasn't really aware of this, that the transmission line was damaged or destroyed in the course of the eruption? They had, if I remember right, they had to rebuild in short, yes. And they had to rebuild. And it was, I think, it was moved slightly.  I mean, basically everything except the plan itself or what came almost up to the plan itself. So the road was rebuilt and the transmission line was rebuilt and realigned. And so I go through that because we, the earlier reviews on whether environmental additional environmental review were needed, focused on that transmission line question did not look at the actual power, the new amended power purchase agreement itself. And so in the course of this docket, we've asked about it, we've looked at it ourselves. And our analysis, it was in the orders that we had, says particularly, that any change in scope and intensity and change in the length of the project are triggers under what's known as Chapter 343. That's the part of our state law, dealing with environmental review. So that was our internal review, that's what we put in our order. And one thing I want to highlight, I don't think this has been as public, but last week during the Hawaii Energy Conference, one of the major topics was community input for renewable energy projects, particularly controversial renewable energy projects. When I go back to our public hearing that we held in Puna, these I think this is in December, I forget the date, it was a very late night in December, spent three hours in a public hearing there, fairly large turnout. And the most consistent voice of the community was, we want government to do an EIS here, we want to see a renewed environmental review. And so to me, when I put all that together, everyone's asking government agencies to listen to the community. This has been a very controversial project there. Yeah, so when we go out and listen and we hear what they ask us, we go back and look at the law and looks like the law says, you have to do this. We said, we need to do this. And it's been unpopular for a lot of the folks that are affected, which I understand, but my take is if we don't do this, it'll be litigated and it'll be another however many year delay dealing with it. Well, Jay, I apologize for my ignorance here, but I'm confused, I guess, as to number one, who can do and or who should do the EIS, right? And then there's the question of, quote, accepting agency. Can you help me better understand the answers to those two questions, please? This is where it gets more complicated in practice than what you see in the law, particularly when it comes to any sort of energy project development. And so your first question, who has to do this? It's termed an applicant to the agency. And when you look at a project like this, you have basically multiple entities. This is a request from White Electric Light Company, Helco, to the commission. So they're the entity asking the commission for approval of the power purchase agreement and to pass a cost on. But it's a third party building the plant. In the past, they've needed permits from other government agencies. They need permission from DLNR to drill the geothermal wells. They need permission from Department of Health for some of their air quality permits and the injection wells. They need permission from County of Hawaii. And so what we've asked is that those two entities, Helco, NPGV, go consult the relevant government agencies together because to get it done, it's going to have to be everyone working on this. I think the responsibility can't be parceled off here so easily. And then I'm still unclear, Jay, who will actually is responsible to perform the study? I'm sorry to be so dense here, but I still don't understand who that is. A contractor, isn't it? I think, but if you talk to Helco and you talk to PGV, they may have a different take, but it is PGV's project at the end of the day. So I think it's going to have to be in court. Ultimately, it's a contract to work here for PGV, right? We have a higher company to help them conduct this, but I think Mark is talking about who's responsible for conducting the study itself. One of the things in passing is the cost. This is going to cost a lot of money, this environmental review. Has there been discussion about who pays for that? I mean, that's internalized by the company doing the project and where that, I mean, as part of the risk of development. So PGV finds personnel to do the study. They come up with a document. They say, okay, we're done a month from now, however long from now. And okay, now we're on to my second question of the accepting agency. Who is that? Why is that important? Because somebody needs to sign off and say you've followed the process correctly. And then that allows the other government agencies to continue their decision making. And we're still sorting that out. And where it gets a little complicated here, the original voluntary EIS was submitted to the county of Hawaii. Subsequently, there have been a number of approvals and litigation, both at DLNR and DOH on this topic. And we have the active proposal before the commission now. As well as litigation over, I understand it was some of the, whether environmental review was needed to bring the project online for some of the other agencies, the approvals there, particularly DOH and DLNR. And either DLNR or the PUC being accepting agency for such a study? And possibly the county of Hawaii, we asked, we've asked DLNR and county of Hawaii, DLNR said they don't have a active application before them that would trigger this. This is where the time dimension becomes complicated here. So what I can say on that, Margo, is we've asked and we're working on our side to try and sort this out because we're not trying to be a hold up. Like I said, we, I see the other counter to this is you go forward and we're going to be, this will all be tied up in litigation as well. And so that, you know, there's not, we got to look at the various possibilities here. So there doesn't seem to be any doubt in my mind, nor in yours, I think, that there needs to be an update at EIS. The last one was done in the 1980s, envisioning that this power plan would go offline, essentially in five years, right? 2026. And at the EIS, that's currently, shall we say, enforced as soon to be outdated. Therefore, a new one is certainly required. Is that a correct characterization? That's a good summary of what we had in our decision. Okay. Thank you.  You wonder whether this is this kind of strategy in the part of those who would call for the EIS, you know, among the activists, for example, whether they're just trying to oppose the reopening of the facility, because they know that it costs a lot of money and it costs a lot of time. And you've seen that in the past, not only with energy projects, but other projects where it pops up as a hotel project, I think, in Oahu. And they wanted an EIS because the old one was old. And the trigger here is a sort of regrettable act of God, kind of the eruption. And wow, it is putting PGV through the paces at all levels, including legal. Well, to be clear, actually, what one of the triggers here is the time extension. Whether the eruption happened or not, a 30-year extension on top of the existing 30 years. Oh, sure. I see. Yeah, I see. I think that's one expansion of the plan as well. Okay. Well, let's go ahead. No, I got to, well, as far as on the tactics of opposition understood, but I guess, again, what I take as one of my lessons as a decision-maker here, you know, ignoring those, those asks has not served the public well either. We have lots of other controversial projects where you ignore this.  And so if we ignore, we're not helping either. Yeah, this is only one real realistic answer for sure. Okay. Well, the last thing, which we don't have a whole lot of time for is the status of PBR. PBR with all the expectations, not only the PUC, but the legislature and, and of course, COVID gotten away. How's it doing? And I have a leading question for Jay, which is, it says multiple choice, okay, and you can choose to elaborate or not, Jay. So has the rollout of PBR, A, exceeded your expectations, B, met your expectations, or C, not met your expectations? And you could, you could have answered D, too, if you don't like any of my three. Oh, my answer is D, all the above. Oh, no, let me, okay. That's too zen for me, man. You got a, it's an appropriate response to Marco's question. Let me see if I can parse some of that, right? Because it's a big, there's a lot of moving pieces. One, officially, the PBR started June 1st. That was roughly six months after the decision we made in December. That was time to finalize all the details. And so I want to continue to credit our staff and all the stakeholders. We've met, to my estimate, we've met every milestone on this on time. And it's really testament to the work that they did. And so where do I see that it exceeded? Some of the positives, the credit agencies have upgraded to wire electrics debt rating. That was viewed as nearly impossible times in the past. And they credit the process we've used to come up with the framework here, largely is instilling confidence that, you know, we're taking a balanced perspective. We're going to see the direct savings to customers start going to June 1. So we've looked at trying to find the efficiencies and pass them on in the near term. And if you look at wire electrics performance so far, they've been internalizing that and started on the cost management programs. And so they're already, you know, going after this. You know, going after this. So I think those, you know, that was what the theory and concept tell you. You put a cap on the costs. You give utility a strong incentive to control them. And they'll find the things that, you know, no one else knows about. Basically, they know their internal cost structure better than anyone. But I think that's, you know, things have gone as hoped and if not exceeded. And that standpoint met, you know, as I said, we met timelines. We just established the final versions or to know the performance incentive mechanisms offer three different, at least three different areas. So utilization of advanced metering infrastructure, something that will be innovative for the industry collaboration between Hawaiian Electric White Energy Program on offering improved energy efficiency programs to low, moderate and income customers and interconnection of rooftop solar systems. So to me, that's a DVD on how that works out. The final form of that was just set in place. So we'll see, you know, how that works out where I have to be honest, where I think Jerry's still out. You know, we put the central part of this framework was a positive upside incentive for accelerating renewable project, you know, the RPS achievement into renewable integration. And, you know, the thinking is providing a sufficient care there. You know, we'll organize the company to all efforts to bring projects online.  And so the, you know, the question is what more can be done for the larger scale projects and some of this attention to the costs of delays. I think I closed our last FAS conference meeting saying it looks like there's still some performance gaps here. So, you know, I think it's still a work in progress. I think, you know, from where we started with PBR more than two years ago with all the hype and all the concern, you know, I think we did bring it to a place where we're all moving forward under it. And we're going to look at where we can make improvements. Well, it sounds like it's already affecting what's happening. It's already, it's already changed things. It's already having a positive effect. And it's already affecting you as the PUC and the utility and your way of thinking and dealing. It sounds like it's in some ways it's already in place. Would you agree with that?  But I guess maybe my own expectation is I would get to sleep a little better. That hasn't really happened either. No, I mean, just be able, you know, I think there is a, you know, I think what will part of the lesson will be, you know, this will continue to take time, focus and attention on how they, how the framework itself is being implemented. It was supposed to, the intention is to relieve some of the regulatory burden overhead, both on our side and the utility side. And, you know, I think we'll see how that goes. Yeah, great. Okay. Well, at that point, Marco, will you get a chance to summarize? You can take up to two hours. Well, thank you. I'll try to do it in considerably less time. You know, you mentioned now a lot of difficulty sleeping there, Jay. I'm sure I could find some type of herbal, non-addictive sleep remedy out there, especially targeted towards utility regulators. Because of course, you're not the only one probably who may have difficulty sleeping. So see if I can get you a jumbo case on that. And just kind of as a sidebar note, you know, I'm actually seeing with my own eyes, right close to White Coloa Village here on this island, a bunch of hardware being delivered right next to the highway. And that is one of the stage one or phase one utility scale plus storage. So it's nice to see stuff actually, you know, at least positioned, hopefully it's not going to sit there and rust too long.  So it's very nice to see material progress going on. And gosh, you know, the three of us could just babble on interesting and superficial stuff forever, forever. And at the same time, I'm very grateful for the time that we've had with my brothers, Jay Squared there.  Thank you, Jay. You're really special. We really appreciate you coming down. Really appreciate what you're doing. And it's so important that the public has some glimpse of it. And you provide that. We appreciate it. Aloha to you both, Jay and Marco. We'll see you soon. Thank you.


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Oh two case hits Two out of three nice So again guys, that's kind of the cool thing about having loose boxes You actually can get multiple cases. Oh, was a Robin. Yeah, I knew it was a brewer. I was one of those two Vaughn Miller four out of 50 Josh Jacobs Well, you never know Hollywood you can have a $2,000 Tom Brady right here You never know Devin DuBernay for the Baltimore Ravens. That's going to Oliver Three-color patch and a piece of the helmets Jason Huntley for the Detroit Lions triple autograph. Wow triple autograph 11 out of 15 impeccable treals Curly Culp Bobby Bell and Willie Lanner Wow I was not expecting that and Are you kidding me? Is there another triple autograph coming up? Wow? Chiefs that's going to Matthew Shira Wow another triple autograph 13 out of 15 That's Ryan Tannehill, Derek Henry and AJ Brown Tennessee Titans. That's going to Dom Back to back triple all triple autographs pretty rare. I've never seen that before back to back last one here guys JK Dobbins Two-color patch and a piece of the helmet 15 out of 75 Oliver with the Ravens. This is definitely a loose group of boxes But the good thing guys we got another case it here we go. Good luck. It's Damien Williams for the Chief Super Bowl Troy ounce. There you go Damien Williams that did have a great Super Bowl run that year they won That is going to go to the Chiefs again and Matthew. All right, so there you go. Very nice JK Dobbins two duels Another RPA Devin Duvernay Justin Jefferson was a really nice one as well You got Henry rugs Nick Bosa or Joey Bosa, sorry Pretty play one-on-one There's the other case hit Denzel Mims Brian Dawkins Calvin Ridley another Justin Jefferson there So there you go guys This was impeccable football three box break random teams number eight on Chaspis case breaks.com


Hello everyone. My name is Uwe. We are five minutes behind schedule, so simple introduction is enough. We will be presenting what public-private partnership is and some call it public-private integration, some call it public-private mix, some call it public-private partnership. Just a brief introduction into what exactly it is, and then we'll be moving towards presentation from two of our continuation, one is Sri Lanka and other is Pakistan. So let's quickly jump into it, what exactly it is. As Nim suggests, it's an approach where you combine the public and private sector in order to leverage the strengths of both sectors and try to provide uniform services and good quality care to people who actually need it. Particularly important when the private sector, like in Pakistan, I can give an example, most of the services are provided by private sector, let's suppose in TB, so then if they're not being reported into the national system, then that makes public-private sector implementation very important. And the other scenario is like when there are a lot of public providers but they're not reporting their data to the national system. So this is also the case when the public-private implementation becomes very important. There are the advantages. Of course, wider coverage, you successfully reach more number of people who need services and then in this comes the strength from both. Public sector have their own strengths, private sector have their own. So we try to leverage both of them and come up with some system that provides uniform services. It is effective user resources, as I suggested, strength from both, technical capacity from the public sector and the physical infrastructure from private structure. They can combine and come up with better services. Challenges are something which we have actually learned from our implementation that we have been involved in in Pakistan. Some of the discussion we will be having from public sector, from ministry and other from the private sector, we have colleagues are sitting here. So they will get more into detail but after involvement in the project, some challenges that we have seen probably not very much technical but often the technical challenges are not hard to get a hand on. So the same is the case in public-private partnership like legal and regulatory framework, which as name suggests, there has to be some MOU between both institutes so that they know who is going to be responsible for what. There are clear roles and responsibilities, plan of action, what needs to be provided at the end of the day and who will be responsible for carrying out the services. They have a sharing agreement. Of course, for the single system, it is going to be used for both public and private. Then there has to be a clear understanding that how the data will be shared between two institutes, public and the private. So this collaboration has to be there from the day one. This understanding has to be there from the day one. This is not something they can leave it for the later stages. Okay, we will deal with it later on now. It will not work. They first have to have this understanding that how they are going to manage data sharing agreements. And this is probably, I think, we have just done as well in our case. Change request management, when you are working with a single system for both, public and private, public and private both have different data flows. Private sector wants to do some extra stuff, which public sector probably not. So in that case, to make sure that data flows of the public and private sector are not being disturbed by the changes done in the system, they have to have some kind of agreement that will make sure that the changes are being done to the system are consistent. And it's not that public sector is doing changes which makes completely, which makes private sector completely unable to work on their domain or the private sector changes which makes completely unacceptable for public sector. So this communication has to be very much coordinated. And there has to be some solid framework that manage this change request. Some SOPs has to be there who is following what, who is responsible for what. And in our case, it's better to have a core team which consists of both firm public sector and the private sector. So that's one of the key that they can do in order to achieve this change request management. Some key that we have actually figured out in our project. Of course, trust is the first thing because then both sector will be having some access to the data. So probably this trust factor should be there. Political will, as I suggested, the technical issues are not the one which are difficult. It's more of the managerial stuff, access to substantial financial support and continuous material input, which is important for sustainability. They need to have a consistent source of funding. It's not like they have for two years unless they will be taken care of later on. Training for both health providers involved, establishing joint monitoring and evaluation. Like after some time, they have to evaluate that how far this has been successful. And if there are changes needed, they need to do it. Like in our case, we have pilot. We have been consistently going through the pilot evaluation through the SRs. Abdullah, my colleague will be saying more about SRs, the subrecipients. We have their inputs and we keep on changing our system for the good. He has building capacity of the private healthcare. And this is where public sector can help because they can provide capacity building, especially when they are hosting as well. Because it's a data. Data belongs to ministries. They will be holding the system. So definitely ownership is there. But they need to have capacity as well so that they can train private sector people as well if they want to work with the system. I don't have much to say now. And I think our next presentation is from Sri Lanka. Dr. I forgot the name. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, Dr. Udayanga. So we have a colleague from Sri Lanka. Shall I speak now? We have it here now. So you just carry on. Just let me know when you want to move on and I'll be moving on with it. Okay, so let me start. So good evening. I'm Dr. Udayanga, attached to the Family Health Bureau, Ministry of Health Sri Lanka. And today I'll be presenting to you about capturing maternal and newborn health data for private health sector institutions in Sri Lanka. Next slide. Oh, and the contents of this presentation will be composed of introduction, objective, case study, lessons learned, output and outcome. Next slide. Despite the childbirths occurring in both the public and private sectors, only data relevant to live births in public health sector is available. Due to the absence of a proper mechanism to capture births that are occurring in private health hospitals, 99% of the births occurring in Sri Lanka are institutional deliveries according to the annual report of Family Health Bureau, Ministry of Health and annual health bulletin of the Medical Statistics Unit of Ministry of Health. So according to the Registrar General's Department, the total number of live births for 2022 was 225, 321, which comprises of deliveries occurring in the private sector and the government sectors. Next slide. So this is the provinces of Sri Lanka. So Sri Lanka has nine provinces and from the survey conducted in 2020 by the Family Health Bureau, the data pertaining to births were obtained from the relevant provinces of the private health, private sector hospitals. The data collected reveal the private health sector deliveries from the nine provinces were as follows, but there was no proper mechanism in place to capture the number of live births occurring in the private sector. Next slide. It was identified that the non-availability of a proper system to capture the maternal childbirth data from the private sector was a drawback in the national program. So therefore in 2019, the electronic reproductive health management information system too for health institutions was launched using event capture system for health care institutions, which initiated a pilot in the major private sector hospitals of Western province in Sri Lanka. So as the initial project was a success, it was decided to expand the system island wide by 2023. Next slide. So the objective of the study was to capture all deliveries happening in private health institutions in Sri Lanka and to collect information on essential maternal newborn health indicators for the country. Next slide. So a minimal data set was identified following several rounds of focused group discussions and in-depth interviews amongst stakeholders, DHIs to base event capture system was developed based on the minimal data set, and for maternal death reporting and neutral death reporting, we used ICDCM and ICDPM classification codes were used in the system. Trainings were conducted for identified users in each private hospital on data entry and visualization, and a partnership was developed between the Ministry of Health Sri Lanka and private hospitals of Sri Lanka, which facilitated the entire process, which was mutually beneficial. Next slide please. In terms of data flow, we can see here that private sector and public sector, we obtained delivery, pertaining to deliveries that occur in the private hospitals, neutral data and maternal data from private sector. Then after we obtained the data, we give feedback to the private sector. Next slide please. And initially, the first lesson we learned was planning and preparation. So adequate planning and preparation are crucial before deploying the and here, health management information system. So it is essential to assess the needs of the healthcare facility, involve relevant stakeholders and develop a detailed implementation plan. So secondly, user involvement and training. So engaging end users from the beginning and providing a comprehensive training and planning are essential. And users should be involved in system design, testing, decision making process to ensure their needs are met. So many terms of data quality and standardization. So establishing a data quality standards and ensuring data standardization is essential for effective data management. Clear guidance should be provided to healthcare workers regarding data entry, coding and validation. So when it comes to infrastructure and technical support, sufficient technical infrastructure, including hardware, software and networking capabilities is necessary for the successful implementation of a health management information system. So adequate technical support should be available to address any technical issues that may arise. So change management and leadership, deploying a health management information system often requires a significant organizational and workflow changes. Effective change management strategies, including clear communication, training, leadership support are crucial to overcome resistance and ensures more adoption. So the sustainability and scalability in terms of sustainability and scalability consideration should be given to the long-term sustainability and scalability of the health management information system. This includes financial planning, maintenance, regular systems updates, and ability to accommodate future growth and evolving needs. So continuous monitoring and evaluation, regular monitoring and evaluation of the health management information system implementation are vital to identify areas of improvement and measure the system's effectiveness and necessary adjustments to optimize its performance. So last but not least data security and privacy. So ensuring data security and privacy are most important in the health management information system. Robust security measures including use access controls, encryption, adherence to privacy regulations must be in place to protect sensitive patient information. Next slide please. So and the outputs and outcome we found was the electronic system reports all deliveries taking place in private healthcare institutions of the Ministry of Health and it provides a comprehensive set of information for the country in order to manage a national maternal newborn health program in Sri Lanka by adhering to the national guidelines. Private sector hospitals are being benefited by training they receive from the government sectors and electronic reproductive health management information system too will play a role in obtaining a clear representation of how much the private sector represents compared to public sector in Sri Lanka. And we created dashboards based on their private sector requests are made available for them to visualize and monitor their maternal newborn health services through the system. And this next slide please. These are some dashboards we created from the private sector for the private sector and our institution. Could you click the next slide? Which is another one and there's another slide. So okay so these are some dashboards we created obtaining the data from the private sector and last but not least why we need DHIS2 as a platform to collect this data. So why DHIS2? So DHIS2 is as we all know is a free open source software that is suited for the current economy of Sri Lanka. And it's a user friendly easily customizable system to meet the stakeholders needs. And as you all know that DHIS2 is already implemented in Sri Lanka and the people in the ministry are really well organized and used to using the system. And other thing is that it's a big data warehouse which we use for research and compiling annual reports and innovation. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now we I request the public sector Ministry of Health. Sir Mustafa Jamal Ghazi are you still with us or are you left? Welcome to any questions? Thank you very much. I'm with you. Good evening everyone. Sir thank you. Let me just start the presentation. No not this one. Yes. Yeah we can ask the question at the end. Please thank you. Sir floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you everyone and good evening. This is Mustafa Jamal Ghazi. I'm a joint secretary in the ministry of health and national coordinator for common management unit funded by the Global Fund. Hello to everyone and I hope you must be enjoying the Oslo weather but here in Pakistan it's very hot. So let me introduce what I wanted to convey to all of the technical team who are into the very noble cause of this eradication and stop TV and this is what DHIS2 people are doing a wonderful job and as far as the Oslo University is concerned they are keep on engaging us and keep on asking the demands and the necessary changes with regard to the proper you know a dashboard to be generated. Next this is the current situation. Well there was a little issue with regard to the co-sharing of the government of Pakistan with regard to these three diseases but now the government of Pakistan has contributed around 2 billion rupees in order to you know more injectize the entire interventions. Next these are the present challenges. The challenges the scale of HIV AIDS TB prevention program is too low to achieve an impact and low number of people living with HIV TB are on treatment high level of stigma and discrimination weak monitoring and evaluation system lack of integrated approach across communicable diseases specifically TB and HIV. HIV is not in development or even on political agenda but now after you know global fund has invoked additional safeguard policy it has become lot of challenges we are facing and this is why we are more emphasizing that this digitalization has become more important more rational so let's show you the challenges and how to meet those challenges please go ahead next next next this is you see in every organization you need to have you know proper data to be recorded presently in Pakistan the data has become a very very difficult task and how to you know make our assessment and analysis according to the program interventions we have we have you know facing lot of challenge as far as the data actualization and authentication is in case of Pakistan next this is the whole despite global fund Pakistan co-financing this science of HTM data synergizes and coordination remain highly underutilized but this is the problem and this is what the demand of the state of Pakistan right now with the Oslo the experts who are preparing this dashboard that how it how it is presently working the patient information not digitized and encrypted lose records on papers and excel excel files are confidentially confidentially very risky and the PR and SR's data is not talking with each other this is the main cause of entire you know problem that whenever we prepare a program review or whenever we start you know judging ourselves that what to monitor where to monitor and how to monitor and how to engage ourselves to know the value for money now this part is very much missing that everyone is working under their silos and the data is not talking with each other provincial data that is the public sector and the private data that is the partners and supporters with us the both data's are not not talking with each other there is some sort of issue of authentication again there is a real-time diagnosis tracking and automated nearby referrals are impossible geo fencing of testing treatment and supply dynamics never recognized despite mapping treatment records are not digitized therefore follow-up cannot be automated automated follow-up SMS alerts are not systematized and artificial intelligence based justice that that's you know we have a practice in covert and that's a very successful story in Pakistan with regard to the covert intervention and the data was you know working in the covert operation was wonderful so here we are going to have a real-time data system to be you know talking with each other with each and every public and private interventions or interveners to work on it and again we are actually we have this problem that silos of good PR and SR work but patient data is not linked with the national database therefore state limited actions we can't judge we can't evaluate we can't monitor whatever the private interventionists are doing what are their targets and what they have achieved so far and how they have achieved so far or whether they have achieved and it has been recorded or it has an impact on the field it is it is really a big question for the state of Pakistan to tell each and everything to everyone stock and warehouse digitization only exists at the national level yes we have a stock in digitization at the federal government level but it has to be supposed to be you know digitized at the at the provincial level at the regional level uh pr and sr centric digital system rather client patient not a common platform again this is a big challenge difficult patients access to htm htm services in remote areas invisible diagnostic financial support mis data not leading to geo specific advocacy communication and uh and social mobilization therefore patients and communities are dissed at disadvantage this is the situation when you are completely unaware of what is happening around you how and where to find out those hiv or tp positive patients and what should be the mapping system so what we have done so far in order to facilitate the dh is to effectively worked on it that is we have mapped all the you know gps along with the coordinators of their locations and their areas and their districts and their places where they are working for still uh the public sectors uh interventionist or public first factors facilities are basically you know known to everyone but the private sectors facilities are you know seldomly known to anyone so now with this sort of you know uh this uh entire uh the problems and challenges faced by the government here in Pakistan we have suggested a solution uh next this is multi stakeholder accountability digital framework and cmu is committed to state multi and bilateral synergies without this it is impossible to reach the numbers to be to evaluate the targets and to see that how they have been attended how they have been taken care what are the level of they're taken care and and and how the communities are talking with each other along with the the specialists the gps and the program program and the officials are talking with each other presently this is a challenge this is a problem that nobody is here to support them in as far as the data is concerned with the inception of dhi s2 i believe i have a discussion with the uh our team here of dhi s2 in Pakistan and i have sensitized the issue of how and where to you know uh sort of engage our community in order to reach the number reach out to the maximum number of population if they are hiv or tb positive because hiv and tb are segregatedly being treated and they need to be you know integrated so this is how we believe that the ideal system of engagement with the dhi s2 should be like this that the patient data emr testing and treatment and supplies it's a facility where it is available number one number two a system of national you know database that is the nadra here in Pakistan which has you know complete database of national identification and identity cards available in the country and this is the basically the key key to this success that even if we we we've lost any patient at any point of time if we have to digitize through biometrics definitely that patient is going to be followed time and again through their notifications presently the nadra system is not in vogue and we need to create a artificial intelligence system to follow that specific person who is declared to be hiv positive we don't find any big challenge to reach out to the maximum number of population even up to the remotest area but how to reach where to reach this is the problem and how to suggest them where to go and what facilities it is nearby at at their you know location this is the challenge so the advisory role the dhi s2 is going to play in Pakistan and this is what i am you know emphasizing for this type of software or this type of interventions or digitalization of the activity should be placed on on board so that we can reach out to the maximum number of population again you can see the geo fencing and artificial intelligence to guide alert clients and providers to nearest now this is what i'm talking about if you can't have a system in the area where the awareness is very weak where the communication with the community is very weak where the where the excess of the health workers is very very very weak so in all these you know factors we need to engage as maximum as possible through these data now how to generate the data and how to achieve the data so this is this is the main issue and that is the that can only be you know a proper challenge for us so what i basically feel the diagnostic financing mrs integration system that all of them should talk with each other even the public and private as zubair at the very beginning of his own slide that he was emphasizing the public and private synergies to work it with them to work with with bilaterally working with each other and to talk with each other in this way we can effectively very very effectively you know engage our all activities according to the e diagnostic system and this could be the best possible you know system which can be found out for diagnosis services supplies network optimization is the basically need i thank you here my two slides speaks volume of you know problems and challenges and this is what and if anybody have some question please you are welcome thank you sir thank you very much we are taking question at the end and now i would like to call upon our merciful guys if you can come and i will start from where mr kazi has left the discussion about the challenges pakistan is facing especially the private sector and my topic of discussion is the use of digital system in the private sector next slide so as mr kazi has mentioned that pakistan has been struggling with the setting up the digital system for tv control program in in the country since the very beginning when the program restarted back in 2001 but in 2018 with the support of the university of oslo and his pakistan we set up a dhs2 aggregate system in the country and and with this system we actually found the solution of our problem as you know in pakistan pakistan is one of the high high burden countries and we have the incidence around 600 000 people every year and most of these people access the private sector as a first point of contact a study shows that 86 percent of the people goes to the private sector as a first point of contact and parks in pakistan the private sector is highly unregulated so engaging the private sector which is highly unregulated is very challenging and we started this with the support of his pakistan and university of oslo and bill and melinda gate foundation next slide so how we started we set up an aggregate instance for the tv control program in pakistan we started recording the case notification reports as well as treatment outcome reports and these reports have a dashboard which shows the trends and analysis of the case notification and the treatment outcome of the country next slide but these this was not enough actually because as mr kazi has mentioned that there are a lot of patients who are missed in the private sector who are also missing the public sector but some people they access the private sector and they also access the public sector so lack of intelligent data and surveillance was missing reliance on paper-based system which has its own limitation and there was no insight on what is happening in the field monitoring was not there we didn't knew that these patients what kind of drug resistance profile they have we didn't knew about their trends what what are the trends what are the seasonality trends and etc and we were not actually allocating resources based on the data which we're receiving next slide so we set up the tracker in the private sector and we used the support of call center to set up the tracker and get the notification from the field so the the the system which we are using in the private sector has step number one when the patient visits the gp in the field the gp notifies the patient to a call center and the call center gets the information some basic information about the patient and then the district field supervisors who are working with us in the private sector they visit the patient get the more detailed information and enter the system in the system entered information in the system so in this way the data is available in the cloud in the dhs2 software and this data can be accessed by the government authorities the district health authorities and the private sector as well next slide but the private sector is not only limited to the case notification we are also doing the active case finding in the country and my active case finding is the most expensive intervention which is done by the private sector so we digitalize our active case finding intervention as well we develop an app which can help support collecting the data in the field in the remote setting where there is no internet facility available but the system is there to collect the information of the individuals who are screened and then this information is used to analyze the trends in the communities in the fields so that the future active case finding activities can be planned and using the dashboards which are generated by dhs2 it really helps us to target the areas where the active case finding activities can be directed next slide we also we are also engaging the pharmacies and engaging a pharmacies who are working for business in the communities is also another challenge so what we do is actually we trained the pharmacy staff in the field and provided them with an application and that applications require them to only upload the prescription of tb patients who come come to who visit them to collect the information from them so in this way the these prescriptions are received by the national tb control program and their private partners and then they mobilize their field staff to contact them and offer them the free of cost services and the whole program package to them so this is helping us increasing our network so this information which was basically collected by the private sector the private pharmacies is now also available to the public sector as well for decision making next slide in addition to this we were also connecting the communities with the diagnostic facilities and how we were doing it actually we set up an uber kind of uber based kind of application in which the samples are transported using an application there are volunteer riders in the communities who use this application they get the jobs for example if there is a need to sample to transport the sample from one clinic to the diagnostic facility they post a job on an application the volunteer rider gets the job and then upload this and and goes to the center collect the specimen and transport it to the diagnostic center and this way we are expanding our diagnostic network to those people who do not have access to laboratories next slide now having all this information in different systems which were not speaking to each other before we are using the common system which is dhi s2 and all this information is coming in to the dhi s2 server so in this way all this information is analyzed in the real-time fashion and program is notified or informed about the timely decision-making next slide now as i mentioned in the previous slides we are not only collecting this information and storing this information in our databases we want to use this information because Pakistan is one of the high burden countries and missing a lot of people cases in the communities so we want to use this information so that we can reach to these people and and use this information to get provide them access to the quality care and diagnosis so this information which is coming in from the dhi s2 tracker capture and information coming in from the other sources other software which the private sector is using we are feeding this information to a model which is artificial intelligence based model and using a Bayesian model to analyze this information and generate the trends next slide so the model which we have set up in Pakistan is a Bayesian model artificial intelligence based model which predicts the hotspots in the communities so in the smaller communities it can tell you where there is high prevalence of TB patients and then the program can direct their resources to these areas where they are much needed we we are directing our active case finding into interventions activities to these areas we are engaging more pharmacies in these areas and we are engaging more gps in these areas to expand our coverage and get more people into our network so that's how the dhi s2 is helping us in the private sector to not only collect information from the field but also efficiently use this information for effective program implementation with this I thank you very much yes no we can have a round of question if someone wants to ask anything nothing good everything understood we tried that no one none of you sleeps but yes please so sorry I mean the difference in the background of the job is very rare even though in the digital looks like they are really quite effective I just want to understand how do you manage to really engage the private sector concretely apart from the hygiene tools that you have set up how do you manage to really give them what are their benefits in that so that they're really going to be able to start by equaling this information for the same third one in terms of policies that will take effect on I mean I just want to get more insight from your side because it's not about the tools the tools are there to support processes so what really was the change maker or really the infrastructure to change it and make it and make them involved in the process yes good question yes as I said technical stuff is already there solutions are there but it is hard when it comes to managerial problems but I think it started back in 2018 where they have this national digital health strategy 2018 to 2024 where they decided to continue with the DHS2 as a system for Dell data collection and the same time they agreed to bring private sector on board because as you mentioned most of the treatment 60 to 65 percent of the population are going towards our private sector which means that we do not have more than half of the data but no we have less more than less more than less than 50 percent of the data which makes your decision nearly incorrect so that was the like motive behind combining the private sector so they can have governance and coverage to as many as much data as possible so that decision making can be moved forward and this was actually driven by our ministry as well and it was like back in 2018 where they have agreed this MOUs and everything yes please for the next question can you wait for the mic okay so adding to what Zubair has already mentioned so in Pakistan I will share the experience of Pakistan in Pakistan there is a mandatory TB notification act which has been passed by three out of four provinces so the GPs or the private practitioners who are working in the private sector by law they are required to notify the case to the district health authorities so this is a very strong document we have in hand to convince them to get on board with the program plus I mean by getting them we tell them about the advantages to get on board with the program and the advantages are that they get the free diagnostic services so for example if a TB patient comes to them and if the patient gets a free diagnosis then that's the that's the positive advocacy done for that GP or the private practitioner who has been practicing in the field so they spread a good word in the community that this doctor is doing a test for TB which is free of cost then the drugs are provided free of cost and then the follow-ups are done free of cost because they are getting incentive from us as a program for the services which they are providing to the patients and secondly I mean in Pakistan there is a lot of control on the anti TB drugs sale in the market now because the global fund has been providing a lot of drugs to the country and the communities are using these drugs I mean the GPs that because we have engaged more than 14,000 GPs in the country so those main GPs who are prescribing the anti TB drugs are now with the program so the sale of anti TB drugs is very less so if a GP or a private hospital wants to treat a TB patient it's better for them to engage with the program and treat these patients rather than treating them on their own so these are different kind of strategies which we are using in Pakistan and it is successful so far the only challenge which we are facing is the comprehensive recording and reporting tools which are used by the TB control program in Pakistan but we have a very strong field force which are basically supporting these private practitioners to fill this recording reporting tool and as Zubair has mentioned that since 2018 this digital system has helped us a lot in getting the information from the field by digitally entering because previously it was they were using the paper-based system and this call center is now helping them to get the notification on calls only I hope I have answered your question yes so thank you so much for the presentation my name is Farzad Farzad Farzad I am scientist in NCD department W. Chauhet quarter Geneva I have two questions one is for colleagues in the Sri Lanka and Pakistan both have you done any data quality review on the what you are receiving from private sector and the second part of the question regarding the colleagues in Pakistan is how what what type of data you are collecting from the pharmacies actually the question is what is that is about the name of medicines those that they are using or is just general information that they are receiving the medications thank you so I suppose your first question is with the doctor is Dr. Dhan here yes regarding the question pertaining to data quality yes actually what you're doing is like we are obtaining data from the private sector at the same time we want to say input the data we are assessing the data inputs so so in the system what we have done is we have inputted some validation rules so if they try to input data which is say say the mother's period of amenorrhea so if the period of amenorrhea is having more than two digits like say 100 so some data entry officers may not be aware of what they are entering so in the system it will just recognize as like three digits and it will reduce to two digits but it won't exceed a certain amount which is the maximum limit for a POA so that so with the validation rules we have control that so when it comes to timeliness accuracy so the timeliness wise we are assessing the reporting rate so they are told to enter the data at the end of each month at 28th of each month so they are entering the data on time so when it comes to accuracy the data accuracy is like say we are capturing the number of newborn children and the weight of the child and the sex so when you get the feedback from their side as I mentioned in the slide it tallies with what we have so in the end it comes as all comes as aggregate data and then we compile it and the end result will be the data which we use which is collected and we use those data for action for the national program for mental health. I hope that answered your question. I wanted to be more focused on the collected data but the validity of the recorded data what you have done when you receive the amounts of the information from the private sector how do you know that this data are reliable and valid when you have when then you can you can do the planning for this part. Yes yes so when it comes to collecting the data from the private sector what we do is we perform training programs so if there's any questions pertaining to entering the data we cross check with them personally like we can call them or we have a WhatsApp group and Viber if there are any questions they have we discuss in collaboration with the private sector and we have like a manual sheet which we use to collect data so we use that so whatever the information they are sending us we get a feedback from them using the data. Should we move on to your next question that was related to something sorry can you repeat your second question? The second question was about the information that you are collecting from pharmacy what are the what are the type of the information that you are collecting? So just to briefly answer related to your first question we have the same kind of data validation mechanism in Pakistan for both public and private sectors so there are quarterly review meetings in which the data is been presented to the district health authorities where it is reviewed these activities are funded by the global fund so the private sector brings in the patient record files with them and it has been validated by the district health authority so regarding your second question for pharmacy related project the pharmacy is basically just notify the prescriptions after taking the consent from the patient of course upload the prescription in an application and that prescription contains the information about the patient name their telephone number the information related to the GP who has been treating the patient and the CNIC number is CNIC number is the unique identifier number given to them by the government of Pakistan it's the national identity card number so this information is provided to the program the district then our field staff is mobilized to contact them offer them the free services and get the detail information about their details of diagnosis for example on what test they were diagnosed what kind of treatment they are getting and etc so this information is then collected by our field staff but the pharmacies only upload the prescription they take the photo from their phone and upload it in the application i've been repeatedly asked for this group photo so yeah is there any question if not okay yeah please on the offline session we have it so please move forward towards the i don't know where exactly that is outside yeah


The DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware, makers of better things for better living through chemistry, presents the Cavalcade of America, featuring a special Thanksgiving broadcast in words and music. Our story, The Path of Praise, our star, Walder Hamden. The Leaves, the Turtles, we move, and spring our dust. As the colors of autumn stream down the wind, scarlet and sumac and maple, spun gold in the birches, a splendor of smoldering fire in the oaks along the hill, and the last leaves flutter away and the dusk falls briefly, we are stirred and made to ponder the infinite goodness that has set apart for us in all the moving mystery of creation, a time of living and a whole. So wrote the late Dr. Wilbur L. Cross, Governor of Connecticut, in his famous Thanksgiving proclamation. The governor was following an American tradition of 300 years standing, and the history of that tradition down the years is the theme of tonight's Cavalcade drama. This is the history of Thanksgiving. Oh, God, be if I die, and when they come with prayer and fun, when our exiled fathers crossed the sea, when the pilgrims came, they did not come as one body in spirit, there was dissension and disunity aboard the Mayflower. Privation and near mutiny afloat, and a dreadful winter ashore, preceded the first Thanksgiving. After the little company met death of a pestilence in that first winter, at one time, only six men were well enough to stand, walk about and care for the rest. When spring came, there were 51 left, men and women and children. Now the first summer is over. In the common house which is served as council chamber and hospital, one man and one boy remain. By the boys' cot, the man sits, right. Master Bradford? Master Bradford? Yes, Giles? Why are you always writing? Why? Well, because I'm still over week to hoe corn lad, or hue wood, or draw water, so I tend to sick and scribble words. I'm feeling better this morning. Good. Good. It's so much cooler now. Could I not leave my bed, Master? No, we shall see. Would you read me what you're writing? Well, which is a letter to our brethren still in England and Holland. Oh. How it will reach them, God only knows. Then perhaps you might read it for me? Why, surely. I have written. We set the last spring some 20 acres of Indian corn and sowed some six acres of barley and peas. Our corn did prove well, God be praised, and our barley in different goods, but our peas were not worth the gathering. Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men fouling so that we might, after a more special manner, rejoice together in thanksgiving. Isn't it? Oh, God, oh, now it's only Captain Miles' stand. This, in his manly face, part of the rejoicing. There the Captain wishes to make a show for the Indians. Indian? Are the Indians right here in the village? Brad, did you hear that? Oh, shh. Quiet, quiet, lad. It is but a salute to impress the savages with our strength at arms. But if there are Indians... Oh, they came in peace. We invited their chief to come for our day of thanksgiving today. But Chief Massasoit brought 90 of these braves to the rejoicing. Ninety. How can they be given food when they're scarce enough for us? Well, the savages seeing they had caused us embarrassment sent hunters out to kill game. They brought back five deer. Five? Yes, and our own foulers, too, had great good fortune. Oh, there'll be a fine feast this evening. A feast and me not there? We shall have venison, lad, and roast duck. Roast duck? Yes, roast goose, baked clams, eels, cornbread, leeks, watercress, wild plums, wild grape wine. Master Badford? Yes. I am well now. Oh, surely I am well. And Master, I am most horribly hungry. Oh, well, let me touch your forehead. And your wrist. Yes, sir. Master? Huh? Why, why the fever's quite gone. I do believe... I have not yet seen an Indian, Master. And I am hungry. May I go? Please, may I go? All right, Giles. I do believe you are well again. Yes, you may go. Thank you. Your clothes are in the locker, yonder. Yes, yes. Giles. Yes, Master. Don't forget to give thanks that you're well again. Oh, no, Master, I'll not forget. What a feasting, Giles. They pour the feast. To be sure. Are you not coming too?  So young. So young. Now, let me see. Where was I? Oh, yes. This day of thanksgiving, the last of our number who was stricken with the great sickness, a lad of 12 years, did fully shake off his fever and his well again. And so, by much suffering, we are become one body, leaving each to the other in sickness or joy. And although our fare be not always so plentiful, but by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you also were partakers of our plenty. We can write it if truth be given. Gradually, the thanksgiving customs spread through New England, but it remained for more than a century entirely a New England tradition. The first thanksgiving day celebrated by men from all the colonies occurred a few months before those colonies became our 13 original states. Our scene, the headquarters of General George Washington at Cambridge during the siege of Boston shortly after Washington's arrival from Virginia to take command in 1775. The general is talking to his adjutant, Colonel Joseph Reed. Ah, if General Gage knew our state Reed, he'd march out on the morrow and scatter us to the forewinds. We have no guns, no ammunition, no uniforms, no experienced officers, and no discipline, whatever. But, sir, men from different colonies have different customs, different habits. They've never learned to work together or think alike. By heaven, they must learn. Er, yes, sir. I have heard that you provided some of them with a something good lesson yesterday evening. It's an episode I'll soon forget, Colonel. I haven't heard the details, sir. There are many conflicting stories about the camp. The thing was simple enough. Colonel Glover's Massachusetts troops saw fit to pick a quarrel with Morgan's Virginia riflemen. Having no uniforms themselves, the Yankees pretended to take a fancy to the fringed buckskins the Virginia lads are wearing. After a deal of name-calling, fists began to fly, and in a matter of minutes, a thousand men were at each other's throat. And you, er, it took steps, sir? I did. When I reached the scene, I seized two of the ring-leaders, each by the neck, and I knocked their heads together with considerable force. Good. And then I gave the rest of them a tongue-lashing. Colonel, I hope the language I used has not become a matter of common gossip. Well, sir, it said you were not, er, well overly gentle. I've learned of many years to keep a tight reign on my temper. But these people... Colonel, if only there were some manner of action I could take short of knocking heads together. If only I could make them see that we are one country now. But we must forget these provincial quarrels and work together as the nation must. General, sir, er, I have a suggestion. It's a small thing in itself, but it might help in the matter you're trying to mend. By all means, reason. Well, it appears, sir, that here in Massachusetts the people celebrate each autumn a feast of thanksgiving. Oh? The day is set aside by proclamation of the colonial legislature. A copy of this announcement arrived only this morning, sir, er, addressing you, sir. Here it is. Hmm. Let's see. Let's see. And what do you suggest? Let the army join in the celebration, sir, all of it. Not just the New Englanders, everyone, north and south. A day of prayer and feasting for all the troops. If they pray together, then perhaps they'll fight together, eh? It might help, er, a little, sir. Yes, it might. It might. Very well, Colonel, we'll do it now. You may copy this down. Yes, sir. To the troops of the provinces of North America. The honorable legislature of this colony, having seemed fit to set apart Thursday, the 23rd of November, 1775, as a day of public thanksgiving, the general therefore commands that day to be observed throughout the army with all the solemnity directed by the legislative proclamation. It is to be hoped henceforth from that day that all distinction of colonies will be laid aside so that one and the same spirit may animate the whole. The only contest shall be who shall render the most essential service to the great cause in which we are all engaged. You are listening to a special thanksgiving broadcast on the Cavalcade of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware, makers of better things for better living through chemistry. The Path of Praise, starring Walter Hamden. After the revolution, the path of praise led ever westward beyond the mountains. As the sons of New England carried the thanksgiving tradition toward the setting sun, over the prairies, toward the sea, into the new, savage country. Dear Freedom's Way Along the dangerous way, the old traditions took new root. The little red schoolhouse, the habit of freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, until the path of praise had spanned the continent, had reached the western sea. But for many years, all of the people did not observe thanksgiving on the same day. The credit for the establishment of thanksgiving as a national holiday belongs to a lady who should be better known to all of us, Sarah Josepha Hale, pioneer woman journalist. Sarah Hale was for 40 years editor of Godi's Lady's Book, the leading woman's magazine of our great-grandmother's time. In 1847, she began her campaign for a national day of thanksgiving, and she kept it up year after year. In 1863, finally, she wrote to President Abraham Lincoln, Mr. President, would it not be of great advantage socially, nationally, religiously to have the day of our American Thanksgiving positively settled, putting aside sectional feelings? Would it not be more noble, more truly American, to act nationally in unity when we offer to God our tribute of joy and gratitude for the blessings of the year? Tradition has it that Sarah Hale carried her plea to the White House itself in 1863, late in the war between the states. If she did, we can imagine the scene in Abraham Lincoln's office. Well, it's a great pleasure, ma'am and me lady editor. Thank you, sir. I wouldn't say that about all editors, mind you. Lady editors, yes, by all means. I want you to sit down. Thank you. Here you are. I don't like to take up much of your time, Mr. President. Don't you worry. There's some 50 people waiting to see me, and I'd calculate 49 of them want me to do something I don't want to do. So we have plenty of time. Thank you, Mr. President. You know, ma'am, Mrs. Lincoln reads your magazine every month. Oh, nice. And does she like it, Mr. Lincoln? Yes, yes, she does. But I'm not at all sure that's a good thing. Oh, and why not? Well, you see, Mrs. Sam and P. Chase, wife of the Secretary of the Treasury, she reads it too, and it gives both of them notions. But how? Mrs. Lincoln sees a fancy dress in the latest book she audited up, Mrs. Sam and P. sees Mary in a new rig, and right away she lights out for your magazine and finds something just a little more expensive to spring on the cabinet ladies at the next Y. Oh, surely you're joking, Mr. President. Yes, ma'am. I have been joking. It's a habit of mine. I do it to try to forget what people say about me. It's important what they do about the things I hold most dear. At this moment, when we're fighting for our very life, these people are not about forment and disunity behind the line. While men are dying in the field, these little foxes spread disunion at home. Pardon me, ma'am. Today's been hard. I'm a bit... a bit tucking. Poor man. I'll go then. No, don't leave. I remember now why you came. You wrote me a letter about Thanksgiving. You want me to proclaim it as a national holiday. It's a thing very close to my heart, Mr. President. I've worked for it more than 16 years now. I would like to see it done before I die. I've given a deal of thought to your letter and your editorial. There are those who'd say we have little to be thankful for in the midst of this terrible war, you know that, ma'am? Yes. And I know they would be wrong. Yes. Yes, they would be wrong. I don't know why I'm sure of that, but I am sure. The ways of God toward man are beyond my skill to read, ma'am. But this I know is will prevail. In your letter you drew a wonderful picture for me. You made me see a whole nation singing together a song of praise, accepting together with one voice the will of God. Not many voices, snarling, bickering, spewing forth venom, but one voice. One voice. That's what I've worked for so many years. Why, then, we've worked together. It's good. Mrs. Hale, all day long I sit here and listen to the people who wish to talk with me. No one's turned away without a hearing. But most of them, as I said, want something I cannot give. So, you see, it does me a deal of good when I can say, yes, petition granted. Your petition is granted, Mrs. Hale. I had already decided to proclaim Thursday the 26th of November next as a national day of thanksgiving. Thank God. Thank God. Yes, ma'am. Thank God. We've seen how, in 1621, the celebration of thanksgiving brought a sense of brotherly oneness to a tiny colony wracked by suffering and torn by dissent. Again in 1775, in the wisdom of General Washington, the tradition of thankful prayer helped to weld 13 jealously separate colonies into a single great nation. And how, in the early part of the 19th century, a famous woman editor, Sarah Josepha Hale, climaxed years of campaigning for a day of national thanksgiving with a personal petition to the White House. Then in 1863, with our nation ravaged again by strife, the establishment of Thanksgiving Day by Abraham Lincoln served as a symbol of national unity. And Congress in 1941 formally set the 4th Thursday of November as the day of praise and national thanksgiving. And now, today, in times as troubled as any the nation has ever known, with freedom threatened by huge and malicious force, may we not again make Thanksgiving Day a day of renewal of brotherhood. All of us, can we not join in this prayer of thankfulness, a prayer composed for his own daily use by another great American, Benjamin Franklin. This is Franklin's prayer, and for as much as in gratitude is one of the most odious of vices. Let me be not unmindful, gratefully to acknowledge the favors I receive from heaven for food and raiment, for corn and wine and milk and every kind of helpful nourishment. Good God, I thank thee for the common benefits of air and light, for useful fire and delicious water. Good God, I thank thee for all thy innumerable benefits, for life and reason and the use of speech, for health and joy and every pleasant hour. Good God, I thank thee Lord, fire! Thanks to Walter Hampton and the Calvocade players for tonight's story, the path of praise. And now here is Bill Hamilton speaking for the DuPont Company. How will you celebrate Thanksgiving this year by attending the church of your choice, by recounting the blessings of health and happiness you have enjoyed during the past year, by bowing your head in thanks over the traditional turkey dinner? There are many ways of expressing our gratitude, but this year more than ever, our thankfulness should go beyond a dinner, a good harvest or any material thing. More than ever before this year, we give thanks for America, for the freedom, the independence, the dignity of our way of life. We could give up every comfort and convenience we have, our automobiles, our telephones, our kitchen appliances, and still be infinitely richer than any people in the history of the world. Why? Because our American way would still be the best pattern for living that's ever been found. Give up our material things, and we would still have the system that's made them possible. However, these material things contribute to our better living and our great and solid edifice, towering over the foundation put down by the fathers of our nation. We can, on this Thanksgiving day in the year 1952, give thanks that Americans seem daily more aware of the richness of our heritage, that the foundations of our way of life seem better understood and better appreciated. We stand firm today and united in the knowledge that nowhere in the world is a man so free to say and do what he pleases, as he is in these blessed United States. And for this freedom, for our unity, for our heritage, we humbly thank God. Let us do more than give thanks for the wonders and blessings of America. Let us do all we can to protect them and extend them in the world in which we live. A joyous Thanksgiving day to you from the men and women of the DuPont Company. Maker of better things for better living through chemistry. Tonight's DuPont Cable Cade was written by George H. Faulkner. Original music was composed by Arden Cornwell. The orchestra and the Don Craig Choir conducted by Donald Voorhees. The program was directed by John Zoller. The DuPont Cable Cade of America came to you tonight from the Velasco Theater in New York City and is sponsored by the DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware. Makers of better things for better living through chemistry.


The socio-economic rights and accountability project, CERAP, has filed a lawsuit against President Mohammad Ibrahim and the Minister of Information and Culture at Hajj Lai Muhammad over the failure to publish the terms and conditions the federal government recently signed with Twitter. In the suit, CERAP is arguing that publishing the agreement would enable Nigerians to scrutinize it, seek legal remedies as appropriate, and ensure that the conditions will lift in the suspension of Twitter are not used as pretext to oppress legitimate discourse. The federal government had, in January, lifted the suspension of Twitter operation in Nigeria, stating that Twitter has agreed to act with a respectful acknowledgement of Nigerian laws and the national culture and history. No date has been fixed for the hearing of the suit.