Welcome again to another OpenShift Commons briefing. As we do on Mondays, we have Ask Me Anything sessions with different upstream projects or community leaders. And so this week we have brought together the team from Project Quay. We're going to get a little bit of an introduction from Daniel Nessier. And then we'll have it open for Q&A and Tom McKay is going to lead the Q&A. But we have a number of folks here on the call from the engineering teams from Quay and Claire, which are now part of Project Quay. So please queue up your questions in the chat and we will gather them. If you're on Facebook live, YouTube live, or in the Twitch stream, we'll aggregate them and bring them here as well. So ask where you live and we'll see if we can get them all answered. So with that, Daniel, take it away. Give us a little intro to what Project Quay is and where we're at today. Sure thing, Dan. Thank you very much for having us. Welcome to this brief overview of Project Quay, the upstream open source project. If you haven't heard about Quay, here's a little recap of the history of Quay, which is pretty interesting. It was actually the first private registry on the internet, so it had the ability to store private or offer private container repositories even before the Docker registry and container index at the time had. And it was basically launched as a SaaS service with Quay.io and a non-prem version of Quay Enterprise by a company called DevTable, which was eventually acquired by Core S, which, as you all know, got incorporated into Red Hat. Since then, it's still an open source project or has been an open source after the fact and is also an official Red Hat product. So Quay as a technology and also as a SaaS offering has quite a history on its back and remains one of the largest and most busiest public registries next to Docker Hub and is also available as an on-prem version for enterprise customers or for upstream users to install in their own environments. Quay as a project has been open source late last year. So we are actually not that long with the source code on GitHub and all the community collaboration behind that, but it's generated a significant impressive track record already since then. The mission of the project is quite straightforward. Quay is allowing you to build, store, secure and distribute your applications in the form of containers reliably at scale. And there are two important things here, which is secure and security as well as reliability at scale. And these aspects come from the fact that Quay is an open source technology that runs the Quay.io offering. In fact, all the code base is shared between the on-prem product and the Quay.io offering and all the new features go into Quay.io first. So we basically test at the scale of Quay.io with tens of thousands of users and hundreds of thousands of API requests each day before we actually release this into a product. It's coming from the GitHub open source project and that's where the community now lives. So it's fully open source and available for various footprints including on-premise, public cloud as well as various cloud service offerings. One interesting aspect of Quay as a technology is that given its history that pretty much started at the same time when Docker started to become more widely adopted is that it is one of the few registries that actually allow us for a very broad range of Docker client compatibility. So we go all the way back to version 0.7. So you can also use Docker clients that even precede V2 protocol implementation to use Quay in order to pull and push images. But we're also looking at the new stuff. We have our eyes and the ears on all things OCI. We have basically already an OCI reference implementation with Quay. We are giving people using Quay early access to features like OCI MIME types as well as OCI Artifacts back and maintenance of the Quay project are actually part of that community body. If you were to sum up the strength of Quay as a project it's really about providing secure access to container images which drive containerized application architectures on container orchestration platforms. It does that with performance and scalability in mind. Quay is again one of the largest public registries available next to Docker Hub and it focuses a lot of automation so it's perfectly available and to integrate in CICD system. I said that Quay itself was just open sourced more or less a little bit over half a year ago but already since then we have seen quite upstream of adoption. So Quay is very active on GitHub and so is Quay which is actually the project that implements security vulnerability scanning. So Quay is open sourced a little bit longer than Quay and it's also used outside of Quay but all the container is actually on the Quay project and also on this call today. So if you have any questions for Quay please do bring those up as well. So what's new in Project Quay? If you haven't been following let's do a quick recap of the most recent release which we introduced a couple of weeks ago Quay Free Free where we put a major focus on completely overhauling Clare effectively and introducing the result as Clare before in tech preview with Quay Free Free. So Clare before predominantly as support for programming language packages to do vulnerability analysis so Clare always had the ability to check the operating system package managers for vulnerabilities and use the signature databases to tag images that have known vulnerabilities including the severity and some information about how to fix them. But on top of that we are starting to add support for popular package managers for programming languages. First one actually before is Python. The other big theme is that we see close integration with the OpenShift and OKD platform so that if you run Quay with this platform or even on this platform you have first class user experience. And that's enabled by various operators and one of them is the bridge operator which got introduced as a supported feature with Quay Free Free and is also making its way into the official repository. This gives you tight integration for workflows in OpenShift and Quay so that things like namespaces and repositories or service account tokens and robot tokens are kept in sync that you automatically have permissions to push and pull to your little car of the world in Quay from OpenShift and you can also use image streams and OpenShift builds in conjunction with Quay and get the familiar user experience that you had with the internal registries. We also added a couple of smaller improvements across the board, things like other filtering help users with that kind of authentication back end to be more precise about which users they want to see in Quay. We have some features that actually trigger down from Quay.io like forwarding larger volumes of logging data to Elasticsearch and we are also introducing some experimental features. One of them is Helm. We've recharged support which is based on those AI artifacts back. So if you enable two experimental flags, one on the Helm side and one on the Quay side, you can actually also use Quay to push and pull Helm charts as well. Quick update on what's going to be the focus for near, mid and long-term future. In general, as Quay now being an upstream community project, we have the same open source upstream driven innovation model that all redhead projects have. So we are here looking for feedback like these kind of AMA sessions from you in order to get ideas on what we can improve, where we can add in terms of integrations and features throughout the product and then start making those available on Quay.io in a canary fashion and then make them available to the paying customers with the perfectized version of Quay. Going forward, we pursue three main focus areas. One is that we want to get closer to the platform we are running on and the platform we are most likely to get used with a lot, which is OKD upstream or OCP downstream. So there's a lot of potential for very close integration in the developer workflow as well as administrative workflow to know about events regarding container images that happen in Quay for those to be able to trigger down into open chef. So we want to make these things much more visible and much more useful to users so they have a very natural workflow between these two projects. In general, focus on day two operations of actually running Quay on top of Kubernetes and on top of OpenShift is a big focus in the future too. We are essentially rewriting the Quay operator which was formerly known as the Quay setup operator to be much more future proof for enhancements and also gets the ability to not only install Quay but to keep it updated through its lifecycle. And then the third part is enhancements to the right of street itself as well as to Clare. So on the Clare side we definitely want to add more package managers from programming and exchanges in the future in order to increase the coverage of security scanning of images. We want to finalize mine type support as well as OCA artifact support as well as then enhance some of the more advanced features in Quay like repo mirroring. This is the more detailed roadmap. I'm not going to talk to every point here but one thing that we are currently working on quite intensely is actually updating the Quay code base to be Python free compatible. So that's going to take up most of the bandwidth on the Quay team for the upcoming free for release towards the end of the year. And at the same time we are also redesigning the Quay operator with the main goals that can actually manage Quay in spite of updates and it can also provide the required databases in a useful fashion to Quay. We are also looking to add builder support for OCP. This just closely missed the last mark window but it's going to be in free for. Clearly for has two big goals. One is notifications. We're just going to be rewritten from scratch as well as part of clear before being a completely new code base and also having the ability to get window ability data from different sources which is primarily driving the air get deployment case. So if you want to run clear in a disconnected environment with no network access you need some sort of mechanism to once a defeat updates to the window ability database and that's what Claire before at GA will deliver. I think I want to leave it at that in terms of an outlook and open it up for you and I. Great. Well, thank you for the update. A couple of other things have popped in. One I just wanted to make just be clear about what the difference was between the Quay bridge operator and the project Quay operator that's in operator hub.io. Anyone want to address that just quickly? Yeah, sure. So the Quay operator in operator hub.io is really the operator that maintains Quay itself. So that's the operator that basically gives you a Quay deployment as a service and we just call it Quay operator these days even though we used to call it Quay setup operator but it's really the component that is responsible for the lifecycle of Quay on the Kubernetes cluster. The Quay bridge operator was specifically created to integrate and running Quay instance with OpenShift clusters. OpenShift also comes with an integrated registry and has some extensions that are only available with the integrated registry by default and the bridge operator opens this up to be used with Quay as well. So the most predominant features here are support for image streams as well as automated deployments when builds in Quay have produced a new image artifact. The one operator used to install Quay, the other is to integrate it with OpenShift. Okay, and then Mohan asked from the YouTube channel in Quay 3.3 for LDAP, will it be possible to control the level of nesting groups? I don't think we have that ability right now. I have seen the RFE for that, but maybe someone from the engineering team can provide more background. This is Tom McKay. There is a JIRA issue where we track our issues upstream and downstream for that feature. It is not on our list of things to do in the coming months, but it has been asked by a number of people, so it has not gone unnoticed, but I wouldn't expect it in, certainly not the 3.3, which is in Z stream right now, and probably not the next release, but it is probably working out currently. And Walid is asking, would it be possible to abstract the MIRA pass-through for developers on-prem that is a developer asked for an image in PodManifest, OpenShift, Kubernetes, will pass it to Quay on-prem if not there? It pulls out of the internet from Quay.io or any other container registries, and I'm going to unmute Walid so he can follow up on this too, Zira. Quick answer to that. Maybe Daniels can correct me, but I don't think that doing a pull-through cache like that is not on our short-term plans. Walid, did I get that right? I just unmuted you if you want to... Yeah, just supplement that. It's something that we have been thinking about, but it's not scheduled for the next release. But it's something we are tracking, and we are more aware of. And yeah, definitely coming in from all the bangles. Walid couldn't unmute himself. Sorry about that. The gentleman on YouTube asked a follow-up question, LDAP question, in teams and membership directory signatureization. Will it be possible to add multiple LDAP groups? So, Joey, do you remember what the current level of feature in LDAP is? Well, I mean, I remember I can add multiple search terms. I don't know the LDAP terms. Right now, you can only bind a team to a single LDAP group. Nothing in theory would preclude us from checking multiple groups, but it is not currently a feature. It's a request. We'd have to add it onto the roadmap. Gotcha, yeah. So, if you're the questioner, I definitely open a JIRA issue with as much details as you can. And we'll give it a look. Right. So, Walid had an earlier question at the very beginning of the whole conversation. He queued up one on restricted network air-gapped environments and support updates to vulnerability scanners databases via periodic updates, allowing other standards other than CLAR. I think that's like a bunch of questions mashed into one. But you want to tease that out there, Tom, and figure out... I can answer that. The vulnerability updates for air gap are a plan for CLAR V4. CLAR V4 is targeted for October to come into GA. As part of that, it is being designed explicitly for the idea that you would be able to load in the updates, as opposed to today where it's expected that CLAR can download those updates. As for different security scanners, nothing in quay is CLAR-specific. Any security scanner that speaks the current or upcoming, their different version of the quay security scanner API, of which today it's CLAR V2 for the current one and CLAR V4 for the upcoming, can be used with quay without any additional configuration. On the quay side, you just point it to the security scanner. There's just has not been any community agreement yet on what a registry security scanner API should look like. So every registry today has a different API, but there has been some work done by various external security scanner providers to integrate with CLAR's API. I believe in fact, one provider has a working prototype of a small proxy server that actually will let quay talk to their security scanner. I don't recall what it's called at the moment though, so I don't want to answer incorrectly. But nothing precludes anyone from using a different security scanner with quay today, except for API compatibility on the security scanner side, and that can be done via SHIM. So there's one follow-up question, which other scanners use the CLAR API? As I said today, as far as I know, there was one security scanner that had a SHIM prototype, but I don't know off the top of my head what it's called. What are the other ones do today? Nothing precludes them from doing so. It's just no one has gotten around to doing it. It's also not complicated at all. The quay security scanner API is very, very simple. And before we go to more questions, Diane, maybe I can share the slide deck or who's sharing now? Daniel is, but you can just take it away from him. Okay. And you'll notice Daniel's slides were red and minor blue, just project quay color. I think you would call me the community champion for project quay. And I just wanted to point out real quickly, these are great questions. We do have an email list. It's a Google group quay-sig. And we are on FreeNode IRC. I know there's a lot of chat tools out there, Slack and Discord. But with all of them IRC seems the one that lives the longest. And then again, as mentioned, we do have the GitHub organization. So the majority of our repos are under that, the quay org. There is one, the quay operator, which is the quay setup operator. That's still in a red hat community of practice repo, but that'll be moving over to quay as well. So feel free to explore there. And the repos have varying policies in terms of issues. So for example, the Claire repo, the Claire community indicates most frequently through GitHub issues. We do not have GitHub issues enabled on most of our quay specific repos. Instead we use issue tracking through JIRA, which I link there as well. We use the same tracking for both upstream. So project quay and downstream red hat quay. And so if you want to really see the roadmap and what's being worked on actively, it's all there for you to look at. And again, all of our code that is for red hat quay, as well as quay.io, as well as project quay all lives stream and is successful on the various branches, if you want to check it out. The upstream release pattern is that we release every sprint, which is three weeks for us. And which leads me to our next thing. So the master branch of project quay, we are converting from Python 2 to Python 3, which is a significant amount of work if anyone is familiar with Python. But we're in the benefit that we do have an extensive, both internal red hat QE team, as well as extensive unit tests and integration tests. So the largest portion of the conversion is really checking the updated package versions. So we're in Python 2, we might be using an older version of an integration package. We've updated that. And as you can see, there's a lot of integration points. So LDAP, all the storage engines, all sorts of flavors of things. There's a lot to be tested and reviewed. And we'll put this in the top of the read me information about our bug bash here and the rewards for our community's hard work in helping us with this. But we hope to see you on IRC and on the email list and fixing and raising issues. It's a significant effort to do this. So any and all help, we much appreciate it. And we'll socialize this a little bit too as well. And I think Bill Dietelbach has got a t-shirt design up his sleeve as a reward. So hopefully we can showcase that too sometime soon and attempt you all to use your Python skills and help us out here, because that's really where the community's at. The other piece of information that you can say if you don't know too as well, we've got an effort on to bring Project Quay to the CNCF and have made a pull request and are working our way through the cloud-native computing foundations review process for bringing a project into incubation. So that's been in the works for a while and it's wandering its way through some SIG reviews. But I'll put in the chat the link to the pull request. If you're interested in following through commenting on that, please let us know or just do so. And we'd be happy to have your support and also your feedback on that process as well. So that's where we're at with the CNCF at the moment. And hopefully you'll see us on that beautifully complex CNCF landscape.io diagram sometime in the not too distant future. That'll also help raise visibility for this project and also give us lots more options. And so I do want to take a moment and have either Lewis or Hank, either one of you are welcome, but sort of tell us why there is a Clare V4. So as we know, Clare V2 is the version that's out there now integrated with Red Hat Quay. If you use Quay built from the master branch or one of our recent sprint releases, there is an option to enable V4. And in fact, on the master branch now, the Clare V4 is the default. So Lewis or Hank, which of you want to tell me a little bit about why there is a Clare V4. Yeah, sure.  There are some issues with the original architecture, which we addressed most of them, evolving around performance. And there was also some data model issues, which didn't allow us to really connect the dots between certain package types like binary and source. All this is now built into the data model. And in the performance side, we really looked at basically how Clare V2 was pulling down images, how it was analyzing them, did most of the work in memory. We moved that to actually be buffered on disk, which will actually want to be more performant because some of these layers can get rather large. You don't want to do all that work in memory. And then we basically rearchitected the actual library, which does most of the work into a repository called Clare Core. That was for an effort to remodel and also to kind of promote easier integration, easier contribution from the community. So you can actually take a look at that in Clare Core. We have had some outside contributions. Everything is well documented now, and it should be a little bit easier to just jump in and add things to the code base. It's a little bit more difficult in Clare V2. And there's a couple other things. Clare V2 didn't really consider content-addressable layers and artifacts. Content addressability is the fact that if I have a hash for an object, it will always reference that object. So we made that a first-class citizen in order to really fortify the reduction of work that Clare has to do when performing the scanning on the same images and same layers. That's the first-class citizen that got brought into the Docker specifications after image IDs. So it's not like Clare V2 ignored that. It just wasn't a thing at that point. So we kind of worked that into the solution. Yeah, there's quite a bit that has changed mostly from taking a look at Clare V2. You know, when Clare V2 was developed, it was developed at the onset of a lot of those technologies. So it benefited us a lot to take a look at. Can you tell me a bit about the... I know in Clare V4 there's now language support. What does that mean? Yeah, so there's nothing stopping us from kind of... The new architecture jumps into basically being able to scan anything off the file system itself. So now that we kind of set up this layout, we were able to implement Python scanning fairly easily and more language packages will come. But yeah, we basically just have a core set of components that when they're implemented, they just kind of fall into the order of the application. So doing that for Python, doing that for PIP, it all becomes fairly imaginable with not too much code changes, which is what we kind of wanted to accomplish. So right now we support Python and PIP scanning. We're working through two rather big features, airgap and notifications. And I hope that once we get through those, then we will be able to attack more of the language package scanning. It's actually one of the things I'm more excited about. I think it can add a lot to the solution. So I want to, you know, as soon as possible, whether it comes from contribution or not, I think that it should be like a major point on our radar. Nice. And as a reminder, again, we build upstream community releases every three weeks. And that includes Clare V4. So if you are not wanting to build damage yourself, we provide those every three weeks. Diane, any more questions for us? Not at the moment. I'm wondering if we can get some more insights into the roadmap from Joey and from the others and Louis. Again, our focus is for the coming summer months. Really the Python 3 work in Quay itself. And then Clare V4, all of its nice features. And then really focusing on what we're internally calling the next generation Quay operator. And maybe if Alec is on, Alec, are you with us today? I don't think he is on. Okay, so Alec is our lead engineer on the Quay operator. The current version of the Quay setup operator was written in conjunction with Red Hat Consulting and Customer. And they graciously allowed it to be open source work. And that's what's shipped now with 3.3, with Red Hat Quay 3.3. There is work in re-architecting that to be more operator-like. And that repo, again, exists up on our GitHub. There's some backend tooling we're using called Customize. It's very Kubernetes friendly. So there's a lot of work going on there. One, to make sure the transition from the existing operator to the new next generation operator goes smoothly, but also to ensure that we capture all the user personas that we envision. And this really is focused on the day two operations as well. So the current operator really installs, but doesn't further manage. But we're looking to raise the maturity level of the operator to include things like upgrades and day two operations. So that really is the roadmap for our team. So there was, yeah, there was something on the roadmap that Daniel put up there around extending the operator to support databases. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what that means and maybe Daniel can throw the roadmap picture back up and you can talk about some of those things. Sure, I cannot share. Dana, if you want to share. Yeah, I'm going to take over real quick. So I think you're referring to the third and fourth bullet point of the Quay roadmap. So yeah, so like Tom mentioned, today the operator actually deploys Quay and it can actually also deploy all the immediate dependencies of Quay, which is an in-memory cache based on Redis, as well as a SQL database that is either my SQL Postgres. So we deployed Postgres today with the operator. So we want to make that a little bit more, let's say opinionated. So it becomes on the one hand less customizable, but also more maintainable for us. So the more options we give people in order to obviously change the way Quay is deployed with the operator, the more complex the operator code obviously gets. And complexity is the enemy of all updates. So if you really want to go into a world where a Quay operator is essentially like Quay is a service running wherever your Kubernetes cluster is running, we need to have very robust update capabilities. And that may actually include updating not only Quay itself, but also the version of Redis that we are using or the version of Postgres that we are using in order to enable certain new features. So in order to do that with the operator and live up to the expectation of the operator actually giving you a robust Quay deployment and maintaining it over time, we are looking at going down the way you can actually deploy the database with Quay to something that is easier to incorporate by the operator. And that's all in order to help the operator to be able to manage update life cycle so that when you have Quay Free 4 installed and Quay Free 5 is released, you can actually use the operator to just change a little version spec in the custom resource. Then the Quay operator will notice that and will actually take over reconciling your release and updating it in the way we are doing Quay updates. So that whole orchestration is basically taking out of your hands and done automatically with all safeguards in place. There's potential for human errors and that may basically mean that what you can customize in terms of the database getting deployed is a little bit reduced in order to make that a robust experience. But of course we still have the ability to have you provide a database for us or use a managed database if you are in a cloud environment and that will remain available. So that's just a part of the bigger plan to make the operator really capable of these day two operations that we are looking for so that you can really just solely deny the operator to not only install but also update your Quay deployment. Cool, thanks. We have another question came in and asking if you could elaborate more on the repo organization team level structure. Can it be more flexible, more levels? He's a new user and he finds it limiting for example, how should I provide to my end users the images from upstream Quay.IL such as Clare and Quay? Yeah, so right now the hierarchy, the levels that you can have in a name are limited to that. So organization and repo and then your tags. So in terms of flexibility yeah, that's the flexibility you're stuck with. Does that answer your question? I know he says it's not flexible at all it's what he's saying. It doesn't sound really flexible either but that's... So the schema, the spec does allow for multi-levels of hierarchy in names. There aren't a lot of registries. I can't think of one off the top of my head that supports any and number of levels. We do not at this time. I'll comment on that a little further. The reason we don't support it at this time is because it's not supported in the Docker v1 protocol and is part of our commitment to full backwards and forwards compatibility. We can't support it. If and when we formally deprecate version one of the protocol which will likely happen at some point in the future because its usage has been dropping then we can investigate adding hierarchical support but we will likely not unless something changes we will likely not be allowing you to set permissions at different levels of the hierarchy. It will be a naming convention which is what in fact most custom implementations that do have quote-unquote hierarchy actually do. In terms of how to allow customers to access things the current promoted solution is you create a robot account per customer or if you don't have a problem with sharing the robot excuse me credentials you give one robot account to all your customers and you just give permissions to that robot account in the particular set of repositories that the customer will have access to. So we ourselves actually used to do this at CoreOS and it worked really well and it was really easy to track as well since we did a robot account per customer. So we would just as those customers would sign up for products our account system would just add that user's robot via the Quay API to the particular set of repositories that contain that product or rather that form that product and then if their subscription lapsed same deal we would remove the robot and then Quay's permission model would take it from there. The other benefit of using a robot account as well is that it means that the users don't have access to the Quay UI even to see things and so it's purely a pull robot and it's a credential so they can't just use it for other things. It's tied specifically to your organization. So we'll lead, I take it you haven't figured out how to unmute yourself so you can't follow up to that but you do let us know and we'll get you in. Yeah, he's already tried there's a bug in the system bug in the matrix. So there was one other question or ask for a little bit more on builders on OCP and what that entangles Yeah, so I'm Bill Dettelback I'm the engineering manager for Quay and yeah just I think that's one of the things we didn't talk about too much but I think it's a feature that we've got slated for the next minor release for a lot of folks who use Quay on premise don't realize that there's actually a facility for builds if you use Quay.io you're probably very familiar with it. We don't have too much uptake folks running Quay in-house with the builders. Some of that I think is because the setup has been somewhat manual it wasn't really designed upfront to work directly on Kubernetes. Actually the builders are the first thing we moved over to Kubernetes when we started to retarget Quay.io over at OpenShift we've been running the builders now on OpenShift for about eight months or so and so we decided that it was time to productize that bring that back into the product so with the next major release you'll be able to run the builders now pretty easily on top of a Kubernetes orchestrator we've done some internal changes in conjunction with the Python 3 migration as well we've taken the opportunity to obviously update the build manager code in the Quay container to Python 3 and while we've got the hood up on the car we're swapping out some stuff like an old RPC framework that we used before for GRPC and we're trying to simplify the code as much as possible we're also bumping up the version of the VM that we use for the actual builds inside the pods to a more supported version it was on container Linux we're moving that over to Fedora CoroS I believe so anyway I thought it would be worth to just call that out as a new feature I think with the introduction of builders on OCP and Kubernetes it should be very simple to stand those up as a new build facility for on-prem customers and if there's detailed questions on ISE Kenny's actually doing the work hard questions to him Kenny there and if so I apologize for un here there you go Kenny we have something to add I think we're having some difficulties with the mute and unmute button today so it's a little quieter than it should be on this call so there you go well then hopefully by 2022 we'll be changing the vulnerability whitelisting to either whatever the new standard terminology is for whitelisting and have it be allow listing or deny listing or whatever comes up in the nomenclature yeah for sure yeah one interesting aspect of builders is that once you think about this being something that's available on premise and you deploy Quay on something like OpenShift OOKD you get to see how the ecosystem comes together in a larger picture you may have heard about a upstream project called Tecton which provides a Kubernetes native experience to running continuous delivery and in that construct of Tecton you have abstract concepts of tasks, groups of tasks building a pipeline so you could easily see that this ties back into the builder concept of Quay which allows you to actually build container image artifacts based on external triggers either via the API or by integration with social management systems that in turn in a long run Quay could use something like Tecton to actually carry out this task and use another Kubernetes service to describe how that's going to happen so I think there are some really interesting opportunities there in the future in these services power maturing and you may know that our group here at Red Hat is also very invested in the Tecton project upstream someone had also asked if there was a deep dive on Quay Clare 4 available from past Commons briefing and I don't have one yet so we'll probably have to get Lewis and someone to do that deep dive on Clare 4 sooner than later that's if you're willing if you want just something to hold you over there's a repository I'll put the link in the chat too but we have worked on basically formal documentation in the Clare Core repository it's a little bit more of like upstream resource but it does carry a lot of weight as far as explaining how everything works so I'll put that into the chat I'll share it via the screen so in terms of Clare and community contribution what are you looking for Lewis in the short term and long term for people to give you feedback on or to help you with yeah I mean one of the big things that come to mind like we had some great contributions from VMware who added their own OS support language support would be great I think that any contributions even knowledge share contributions around security protocols around how organizations kind of package their applications internally is all really great stuff that we can benefit from but yeah as far as like code contributions I know language packaging is going to be a really big focus coming up and having some individuals who have worked really closely and maybe you know the NPM space the PIP space would be really beneficial to us and do you have a reoccurring meeting community meeting at all yet for Clare? We don't have a community meeting as of right now we do a lot of collaboration over Slack right now but it's something that you know I think as we are going forward it's becoming more and more crucial to do so we might want to put something together for that when the transition hopefully takes place over to the CNCF we'll probably get that done and then there's the Clare core link thank you but I think that we do have that SIG page for Project Quay and if you want to share that again come and that would be great and we'll come add the Clare a little bit here to that as well so to try to figure out how best onboard new community contributors and folks like that I think the bug bash which we're setting up is actually one of a really good way to get started and to start getting getting yourselves involved in the community if you're interested and if there's features that are missing or if there's a feature way down that product roadmap definitely make sure that you highlight that in your feedback and that might move things forward but also volunteering to help contribute on any of these things please do all right and Hank's having we're having some unmute issues here there you go Hank go for it try that Hank all right we still can't hear Hank we're having some serious unmute stuff another thing that I often get asked about is support for image signing in Quay especially since Quay.io has that ability built in and that's a very interesting discussion because we're actually involved in some of the community work that is rewarding around making that available in the Quay project as well I know that Joey's working actively on this up-screen the community around Notary and maybe Joey you can give a quick update on where this is currently at sure so Quay.io has experimental support for Docker Notary which was the original signing solution that the community developed or Docker developing in the community sort of accepted however over the last few years there's been a lot of community discussion about the pitfalls problems associated with Docker Notary and to that end the community is currently working on a new version of Notary called Notary V2 it's a working group there's actually a community meeting in I think eight minutes that meets weekly so anyone who's interested feel free to go search out the Notary V2 working group and take a look but the high level description is basically because of this recognition that there's needs to be something better the community is working on something new and so as a result we are part of that working group and as soon as the working group comes up with a proposal and an implementation for that proposal then we will be working to adopt that but as of this moment in time it's still very much in the development phase and so given that and the lack of universal adoption of the original Docker Notary we're taking the approach of let's contribute to the new version as opposed to adopting a flawed older version so that's the high level description it means unfortunately that we're going to have to wait a little bit longer to get a really good solution in place but since the whole community has finally recognized that this is something we should do I'm pretty confident and excited about the direction that everyone's going so let me just touch on the ways to contact us again as you've seen we're new to being open source and part of that growth pattern is figuring out the best way to collaborate with our community and right now Claire has a community as I said it does a lot of its discussions through the github issues we're hoping that over time we can sort of consolidate the communities with quay and Claire so Claire questions are completely fine any operator questions are completely fine on the quay SIG the issue tracking the Jira that we use is for both projects both quay Claire as well as all the operators so if work gets done even if there's an issue upstream it'll often be recreated as a Jira so there is a Claire channel on free note as well both to Claire and quay channels on IRC are very lightly populated I would encourage you to use the quay one which is why I listed it as the only one just to sort of get everyone in the same room so to speak but if you ask a question on IRC for sure it'll get attention if you put an email to the quay SIG either for Claire or quay or any of the other projects it'll get seen as well there's one question coming in from one of the channels external streaming channels is enhanced content coverage included in SCAP compliance scan like standalone OSCAP Podman anyone have an answer to that one does that make sense to you Daniel I think I get the direction there and the answer is no we're pursuing a different standard for getting enhanced content coverage and so we are basically looking at our Oval V2 feeds as well as CDRF data to get more comprehensive coverage on specifically now what is described and what are the abilities for Red Hat RPMs and that's beyond the Red Hat server RPM repository so we're going a different ground using a different standard for data not SCAP or open SCAP I'm not seeing any more questions out there and I know you have another call in like four minutes we'll try and if you can slide to that bug bash slide one more time and make it full screen


Season 2 here at Anabaptist Perspectives is coming to a close, and our final episode will be releasing at the end of this month. Now Anabaptist Perspectives has reached thousands of people all across the globe, but each episode costs hundreds of dollars to produce. And as we look into beginning production on Season 3, which is the next set of 50 episodes, we need your help. Over the next month, we're hoping to raise $10,000 to give us the funds we need to continue production on Season 3. So you'll probably notice a several month gap as we work to produce the next set of episodes. Whether it's a few dollars through our Patreon page, or a one-time donation through our website, every bit counts and we greatly value your support. We truly couldn't do it without you. Thanks so much for watching, for your generous support, and we'll see you in Season 3. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. I'm here with Chester Weaver and you've spent quite a number of years teaching school and have a deep interest in Mennonite history and that type of thing. We're going to do a deep dive into some history on this one, and you mentioned some of this in our Fundamentalism episode, but that's the apostasy of the 1960s and then the renewal of the 1970s. First of all, can you just kind of set the backdrop for us? Where are we at? What preceded this up to that point in the 1960s in the Mennonite Church? Okay, that's a very good question. All that I shared with you on the previous thing on Fundamentalism, what we're going to share tonight is an outgrowth of all this Fundamentalism emphasis, Liberalism emphasis, and the clash. Ideas always have consequences. So people should probably go back and watch that one first. What happened in the 1960s was not a drop out of the sky, it was not something sudden, it was just the natural consequence of failure on a number of levels before. So I'm going to trace some of this, and I come from Lancaster Conference myself. I do not have an Amish background or an Amish Mennonite background, so this is a part of my personal story. This stuff that I'm going to be talking about actually happened. I witnessed it firsthand whenever I was a teenager, and that's very relevant today because I'm hearing again today some of the same things I heard back in the 1960s. The same thoughts, same ideas, some of the same terms. First of all, may I share with you a timeline? This is not original with me. Corey Anderson produced this. So we have an Amish Mennonite deal, and you notice up here it says the mainstream Mennonite. You notice over here it's Protestant. So back in the late 1800s, the Amish people sorted themselves out. There was only such a thing as Amish. The change-minded Amish, two-thirds of them went this way and eventually joined us. One-third is what is now called Order Amish today. These people are now over 300,000. They started out with 3,000 people, and they're now over 300,000. Two-thirds of them went up this way, and now they with us are dying people. And what I like to pursue now is just the consequences of ideas. So I don't need to explain this chart, but I want to give you a context, and it's the Amish Mennonite people who have not experienced the story that I'm going to tell you, but they have no reason to repeat our story because our story is well-documented. And the Amish Mennonite people need to pay attention and not repeat our story. And this is what bothers me when I'm hearing evidence that we're not learning. So my wife went to Lancaster Mennonite High School for grades 9, 10, 11, but her parents would not allow her to graduate because of what was going on there. Now I know this is just external stuff, but externals kind of illustrate what's going on inside. So here are some pictures. This is from the book Passing One the Faith, The Story of a Mennonite School, Lancaster Mennonite School by Don B. Crabill, a respected historian. So just with a quick flip of the pictures here, you'll notice that we go from this kind of external to this picture in 1965 to this picture in 1968 to this picture in 1969, this picture in 1971. Some of these things are personal to me. I can tell you about who some of these people were. Wow.  The book was published in 1991. It's completely different. Completely different. A man by the name of Daniel Hess, who is a teacher at Goshen College, contacted CBS News and asked them to consider doing a documentary of the old Mennonites over this time. They produced this DVD. It's called Mennonites, The Peaceful Revolution, 1967, CBS television. The outside world was noticing something was going on with these people, and so this is the outside view, looking in on these changes that are growing out of liberalism and fundamentalism at work. At the very same time from within is this book, God and Uncle Dale. Have you ever read this book, God and Uncle Dale? I can very much identify with what's in this book. The story setting is in Alberta, but what was going on in Mennonite conferences across the entire nation is put into a story here, and you can just feel the emotions of it. So this is the inside view versus the outside view. After that was done, then John Howard Yoder wrote a little write-up. He said it's probably the only time that all Mennonites or most Mennonites did the same thing together. They watched this mirror on television. And sometimes they even brought televisions into the church house, and they had just few years before that, had rules against television, and now they're watching the electronic mirror as it's portraying them. 1972, in 1989 and 2006, a man by the name of Conrad Kinnege did a profile on Mennonite Church USA, Road Signs for the Journey. So now we're talking about non-externals, we're talking about all kinds of other things that are going on among Mennonite people. He did all these questionnaires he sent out in 1972, 1989, and 2006, and it gives you a visual of what was going on on the inside. After this book was done, then they did another one in 2014. All I have to tell you is all this is a document of death. Our people are dying. They're not getting people in from the outside. The cry back in the 60s, we need to be relevant. We became so relevant, we have no message. And now we've brought into homosexuality, we're ordaining women, women homosexuals to be our leaders, and people aren't staying. Churches have to have something to offer people, and if you have no message, why would you join a church like that? And so it's just a sad commentary. I would like to conclude by saying, sharing with you some things, the best way to attack Anabaptist values is to attack Anabaptist symbols. The issues, there are three primary issues back in the 60s that we faced. One of them was television. Gotta have television. Secondly, women were, their covering size was shrinking and they were cutting their hair. And thirdly, divorce and remarriage. Those were the cutting edge issues. Now much else was involved, but the Liberals began to attack Anabaptist values through its symbols. For example, head covering sounds like it's a minor thing, but it turns out to be more major than we first think. Even Galassanite is attacked through head coverings.  The degrading of Anabaptism, Anabaptist symbols is propaganda. And intended to change the perspective of Anabaptism as a whole is very subtle. But these people knew what they were doing and they actually got it accomplished. It's very sad. Look at this. This is the Family Worship Magazine, July, August, September 1968, prime change. Look at this picture. A picture is worth a thousand words. This lady is the head of her family. She has cut hair, no covering, two children, and she's happy. And you feed this kind of literature to the whole church. Eventually, this becomes the model. There's more than just externals here. There's deep things here. And these people use that. Culture is religion externalized. We study culture to learn what motivates people to do the things they say and do. So when you deal with culture, you're actually dealing with people's belief systems. The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. And that is exactly what happened to our people. They bought into this. And nobody was in the Galassan height enough to submit to God. It became what you call postmodernism. People just went with the flow. And a few people were brave enough to stand up, and I'll get to that shortly. How to abandon Anabaptist theology is undermine biblical authority, which includes the person of Christ, make traditional ways of reading the Bible seem simplistic and inadequate, encourage Anabaptist history, lose the two-kingdom concept, and throne self and throne wealth and national welfare, nationalism, justify self-defense and promote just war theory, adopt the good moral causes of the surrounding society, and identify with it. In other words, you just blend in with what's around you. Those and churches who do just what I read, who have lost sight of their history, are experiencing amputation from their historical trunk.  And that is what happened, is happening presently to my people. Their only hope for life is reattachment. I have five symptoms of death here. Death is okay. It's okay to die. Little energy to fight for life anymore. Life, uncomfortable lies, acquiescence in the inevitable. Number five, feeble response to stimuli. Those are all symptoms of approaching death. And I'm sorry, my people are just about dead. So what happened? There were a few men across the nation, both in the West and in the East, who saw through what was happening here, and decided they're going to stand up and take the heat that comes with standing up to people. Conferences were powerful. They stood up to them and they got ridiculed and criticized like you would not believe. And the reason I'm sitting here today is because of their bravery and their courage. And even the Amish Mennonites have been impacted by the courage of a few men who have done what it took to appeal to our own story, our own history, a living relationship with Jesus Christ. One of the heroes that I have in my experience is a man by the name of Aaron Schenck. I saw him and his wife with a non-dualistic approach to life and history. And they modeled it, and that's powerful. Okay, so that happened in the 70s. And because of that, we have publishing houses, like Rod instead Publishers, Christian Light Publishers, and other publishers, Lamp and Light Publishers, The Grace Press. And we have powerful things happening in the world today. As an outgrowth of that beginning, somebody had to be brave enough to start it. And now, enough people have the vision that it's kind of rolling on its own. However, I'm afraid that we're in an identity crisis again. We need to be talking about some things like Golasenheit, like fundamentalism and understanding what liberalism and fundamentalism is, because we're needing some thinkers, some students of history to understand where we are today and give us some leadership to where we should be going. What similarities do you see with us today, as we do back then? Is there specific things you think you can do? There are several things. One of them is we don't have television, but we have movies. And we don't have television, but we have internet, which provides pornography just as bad or worse than what television did. And there are so many young Anabaptist people who are involved in some kind of pornography. Okay, if we don't deal with that, we're not going to make it. Okay, so some of our leaders back years ago said, salvation is a dualism thing. Just have it in your head and your heart, don't have to live it out. It's okay. Ideas have consequences. We're suffering today. I already talked to you about the head covering. We have head covering shrinking again. They're not off yet for conservatives. At least they're on, at least a single of them.  It just went from there. Another thing is becoming a part of the political process. It's a really big one right now. Yeah. Got to vote. Got to have good men in office. That's a total loss of the two kingdom concept. Another one, if a church does not stand for moral issues like divorce and remarriage, they don't stand for homosexual issues either. Now at this point, the conservative Anabaptists are standing strong as far as I know in resisting homosexuality and all its implications. But we're getting an awful lot of pressure on it. Another thing, back in those days, sports became important. And now we've got sports becoming important again. You look at people's heroes, you find out where they are. And you have sports heroes, national heroes. You don't have Christ and Christian history heroes. You know where people are. Those are a few illustrations of where we are today. Maybe we're getting into the weeds. But is that a failure of them not living for something more? Or is that a generational thing where they weren't shown something? Exactly. It's my generation's problem. Okay. Okay. It's because young people are going to those places because they have not seen it modeled. It's my generation. My generation has failed. There is such a thing as fight, right, flight. The first generation fights for the truth. The second generation inherits it. It's right. But the third generation, it's flight. They run from it. And that's where you think we're at right now? I think we're into the right stage of beginning the flight. The only way this works is if every generation fights, understands the issues and fights for the truth. Which is what this whole project is all about. Exactly. Yeah. Do these interviews. Get people to start, at least start thinking about it. Exactly. Even if we don't necessarily change their minds. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. But there needs to talk. And I feel an increasing burden as an older person to tell this story. At least we have some books here that tell this story. But there needs to be some flesh and blood tell this story, too. I owe this story to you. Yeah, because I didn't know most of this, honestly. I've lived through it. We have family consequences of this. This stuff is real. This is not just intellectual or something happened in the past. I know where this went. And I don't want to see it repeated in your generation. It's not a fatalism thing where we're just needing to go there without it doing anything. I appreciate places like Sadler College are at least calling people back to some thoughtful consideration of these things. And faith builders are doing the same thing. Asking people to read the story in the past. And instead, we're messing around with movies and social media. And we're not paying attention to important issues. Intentionality. Wow. It shows me, once again, how important history is and understanding where we come from and watching these trends. And even if we disagree with them, we can at least still learn something about where we came from. And I think that's really important. So I really appreciate you taking the time to dig all this up and then also be willing to share it with our audience. That's really my pleasure. My pleasure.


You driving me? We'll come in a little bit. Here. Let's stay up there. Here. Come on. One, two. One, two. One, two. We'll come in a little bit.


She felt so sad because she was following a very healthy diet and training in the gym. It was strange because the one part of her body gaining most weight was her stomach. It was unbelievable hearing that she wasn't pregnant and she needed to find out what was going on. Keely thought that she must be pregnant because she analyzed all her symptoms and didn't find any explanation rather than pregnancy. She and her boyfriend, Jamie Gibbons, had not planned on getting pregnant at this time because they felt unprepared for it, however, they needed to confirm if it was the case. Keely did several pregnancy tests to rule out that she was pregnant. Surprisingly, all the pregnancy tests were negative. Keely knew it was time for her to undergo a medical examination because she and her boyfriend Jamie were very worried as she was sure she wasn't pregnant. Keely thought that she could have had a miscarriage or even something more serious. After being examined by the doctors, they answered that she just gained some weight, but she didn't believe it, and she was sure something wrong was going on in her body. One day, when she was at work, she suddenly felt sick and fainted. When she woke up, her colleagues told her she just passed out, and she needs to see a doctor. After that, she immediately made a new appointment to see a physician. Once again, the doctor wasn't able to diagnose the real problem and concluded that the fainting was due to stress. Keely was very ill but was ignoring it. But she finally stopped being apathetic and decided to see a specialist after the fourth blackout. This time, the specialist said that the cause of her fatigue was her medication for acne. Keely thought it was ridiculous because she stopped taking acne medication for several months. Keely had had enough of the different doctors' opinions because they didn't take her illness seriously. Then she asked the doctor to do more tests. Her specialist noticed that she was struggling to breathe or walk normally, then he ordered an ultrasound to be done again. Keely hoped that the ultrasound would settle the medical mystery because the specialist kept repeating that she was most likely pregnant. Keely watched the ultrasound technician as he examined her. She was afraid when she saw the concern on his facial expression. The results of the ultrasound test disclosed that Keely had a massive abnormal tissue in her uterus. Now Keely was about to know the shocking truth when the doctor ordered a computed tomography scan. Keely and his boyfriend were waiting for the final results. Before revealing the CT scan results, the doctors tried to keep Keely calm. Finally, they confirmed that she never was pregnant and what was in her stomach was an enormous ovarian lump. At that time, the specialist couldn't determine what type of lump was that. The lump found in her stomach tuned out to be a huge ovarian cyst. It was a 24 centimeter broad. Doctors finally found what the cause of Keely's weight gain was, and then it was clear for them that she needed medical attention immediately. Keely was informed by the specialist that to eradicate the cyst, there was a high probability that she would lose one of her ovaries. And that she may need an extended hospital stay depending on the difficulty of the surgery. Keely was terrified when the high-risk obstetrician said that he needed to operate on her immediately. And he would need to open her stomach from the pelvic bone until her breast. On the morning of the operation, Keely had a panic attack, and she tried to leave the hospital. It took two nurses to detain her and administer her the injection. Keely recognized that she felt this was the last day of her life. Keely's family feared the operation would be complicated. They were waiting in frantic for news. The surgery took much longer than the doctors thought. Fortunately, after five hours in the operation's room, the doctors could reassure Keely's family. They were able to remove the entire cyst from Keely's body, and now she can concentrate on her recovery. The hospital staff couldn't believe the size of the cyst, they took some pictures of it and showed it to Keely as she came around from the anesthetic. Everybody was shocked when the doctor said that the cyst weighed 60 pounds. Keely was discharged in good health four days after the surgery. Despite the 30-centimeter scar, which runs from her pubic bone to her breast, she was able to walk around a bit. Keely was so happy to be able to continue her life normally. I lost sight of how difficult simple things had become, like driving a car or climbing stairs. The operation gave me my life back, I can't thank my surgeon enough, she explained. Although she had lost her right ovary, the doctors assured her that this would not affect her chances of becoming pregnant.


As an ombudsman, we are here to not only support them, but support their family members. While they're gone and serving our country, we're here to provide the resources that their family members will need while they're away.


Hey everybody, J.R. Fisher here. Happy Wednesday. Welcome to Wednesday, the 21st of October. Man, look, the past two years, do you guys feel like it's just like zoom by here? Hey, make sure you're using that chat box. Tell me where you're from, what you're doing, what's going on. We're going to have a great session today. I'm going to give you some insider secrets that I learned in the long years. It saved me so much money over having employees and you're going to love it. It's going to be fun today. And also, at the end of the session today, I do have a free course. It's a $97 course. You'll be able to find it in the description. It will not be there now. It won't be there now, but it will be once this video is posted. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do me a favor. Subscribe. Hit that big button down there. It's red. When you click it, it'll turn gray. When it turns gray, you are subscribed, but you still won't know about the videos because you have to turn on bell notifications. There's a little bell that's going to pop up next to it like this. You want to ring the bell and you want to click turn on all notifications. That way, when I go live like right now, or if I upload a video, it's going to notify you and you don't have to go to my channel and look to see if I've done something new because it will actually tell you. Like I said, guys, don't forget to use the chat. Let me see here. Let me put something in here so we can get this thing going. Put in the chat where you're from, what you're doing, and a little about yourself. Boom. Just like that. Look at that. Look at that technology. I'm on Facebook. I'm on YouTube and I can talk to you guys and that's pretty awesome stuff. Now, let me tell you something. When I first started selling online, and we're going back to 2009, I had to get employees. I think it was in 2010 for my warehouse. And back then, what you did is you went out and you ran an ad online or you ran an ad in a newspaper and somebody would come in and you would interview them and you would hire them. And it was really that simple. And nowadays, it's a whole lot easier. It's a whole lot easier because you don't have to pay all the money. You don't have to run the ad. I'm going to go through all the steps with you and where you can find these people in just a second. But I mean, like if you were to hire somebody in the United States now, even at minimum wage, you're going to be paying probably $20 an hour because of all the taxes and unemployment insurance and all this stuff. Paul says, glad you're back. Thank you so much, Paul. I'm glad to be back. I can tell you that. I'm going to get to the gym today. One thing I haven't done, I haven't gotten back to the gym since I had the illness, but I'm going to get back to the gym today. Good to see you too, Paul. But it's going to cost you $20 an hour to hire somebody. Now, you could go overseas and let me explain something to you. I have people in all these different countries. I have people that work for me in India. I have people that work for me in the Philippines. I have people that work for me in Pakistan, in Germany, in Mexico, in Canada, all around the world. I have these people working for me, which is a really pretty cool thing. Singapore, I forgot to mention Singapore, because when you have these people in other countries, you can pay a lot less money and you avoid all this taxation. All this taxation that America makes you pay. And I want to walk you through some of those steps too. Let me grab some of my notes, guys, so I don't miss anything. There is a little bit more. See, here's how it works. When you're hiring people online, you've got to do more work up front. When you're hiring people one-on-one in America, let's say, you've got to do more work after you hire them. So it's kind of a weird deal, but I'll explain to you why that works out. So this gig economy that has grown over the years has really pretty much been amazing, guys. More than 56 million Americans freelance regularly. So you can hire people in the US too. That's not a problem. And they provide 72 million hours of freelance labor each week. So that's pretty strong.  From doing whatever IT work you have to providing a flexible labor pool to supplement your company's staff, whatever it is, freelancers are really, really awesome people. There's a wide range of products and services and things you can hire people for to help your business run efficiently. And outsourcing a project may make sense when you don't have the in-house availability skills and success to handle it. So let's say you want to do some, let me give a secret. You want to do some, I don't know, graphic, graphic art. And I got to tell you, my graphic art has always been done overseas for all of my labels and all my products after my survival food. But let's say you want to do that. You want to do some graphic arts. And normally in a US business, you'd go to your graphic arts department where you're paying each person $70,000, $80,000 a year and go, I've got another project for you to work on. And I know you were just sitting on your thumbs prior to me walking in your room. And that's pretty much what happens because you got to hire these people and there's no work for them sometimes. But when you use a freelancer, you can say, hey, here's the project. This is what I'm going to pay for the project, whether it's by hour or by the project. And that's all you have to pay for. So in some cases, in some cases, freelancers are not full-time employees, like you would normally have a full-time employee. Now, I have freelancers that are full-time employees, quite a few of them, as a matter of fact. But it is important to recognize that while freelancers and employers both provide services to a company, excuse me, employees provide services to a company, there are key distinctions between the two of them. Freelancers aren't employees. They're not employees. And they don't receive employee benefits from companies that they work with. Now, that's beneficial to you. Not that I don't pay out benefits because I do. I allow sick leave, I allow vacations, I allow a lot of stuff that a lot of companies don't. But they're usually hired by the project and they're expected to report and withhold their own taxes within their own country. So it wipes out that section for you. Now, I have employees in the U.S. and I do have a payroll company that does our payroll and I have to do the taxes and all that. But I'd like to keep as many people off that as possible. The more people I have on that, the more it costs me. It's important to classify employees versus freelancers because they are different. So I can have a full-time employee in the U.S. and I can have a full-time freelancer, let's say in the Philippines or in India or whatever that work for me, which I do. But they've got to be classified differently. A freelancer provides specific services for a negotiated rate and time period. Normally, however, I have several that are full-time that work for me and they get paid weekly and they do their jobs. Freelancing is also not a permanent position in most cases. In most cases, companies will hire them for a few months and then they're off looking for another job. I hire a lot of people and they've been with me for years and years and years because that's what I need. I need a job filled and I need somebody always working in it. You need the proper infrastructure to support freelancers. So before you get into the freelance cool out there to start hiring people, consider whether your company has the infrastructure to support freelancing. You've got to help these people. It's not like you say, hey, you're going to do sales pages for me and you're off on your own and I'm just going to get sales pages every week. It doesn't work that way. You have to work with these people. You have to instruct these people. You have to give them some guidance, okay? Because otherwise they can't do their job properly. Now you've got to ask yourself, do you or somebody else in your team have time to hire and manage freelancers? It takes time to do this, guys. It's not like you're getting rid of some time. You're actually adding time because you now have to manage somebody. If the project requires collaboration, do you have the tools? Do you have the software necessary to make that happen? So once you answer those questions, I'm going to give you some tips to hire and manage those people and ultimately benefit from these freelancers, okay? Anyone of you listening to me right now, you can do this and you can save so much money. But before you hire and you've got to clearly define the project you need completed, okay? Do you have a budget for the project? I see a lot of people will post jobs on Upwork or Freelancer.com and then you know what they want to pay. Don't do that. Go out there and look what that particular job charges. What are people charging for that job? And then I want you to pay above that. Yes, pay above that.  I want to be one of the highest people paying out there. What are the deliverables? What are you expecting these people to do? Are they completed video edits? Are they downloadables? Is it a webpage? What is it you're asking for? What level of expertise is needed to complete the task? I always go for a higher level. I want some people that are very experienced that know what they're doing. I want to see samples of what they've done. What tools or skills are needed for the project, okay? You need to provide that to them. If they have to have their own laptop, then they got to have a laptop, okay? If you're going to provide software for them to use, like I have different like video software, B-roll stuff like video blocks and all that, and they have access to all that stuff and they can use it. What tools outside of that are they going to need? Do they need to have their house set up a certain way? Do they need to have a phone system? Are they going to be answering the phones for you? And then lastly, what is the deadline? What do you expect out of these people? You know, it depends on the project, but sometimes I'll say, okay, I want labels done for some of my products. And I say, okay, three weeks and I need to have this done, okay? And this is one milestone. This is the next milestone. This is the next milestone. So the person may be, you know, send me a mock-up. And the second one may be I'm going to do revisions and then third one may be I'm going to do a final approval. And then, you know, the fifth one may be, you know, deliverable. You're going to send this to me. So if this sounds like a job description, it is. Okay, it is. It's a freelance job and a successful hire is important to your business. So you're going to have to put forth effort. You're going to have to do a really detailed list of what you want out of these people.  Do you speak English? Okay. Can you communicate well with English? And how much communication you need with English? Like I have a guy who does my Magento website and he doesn't speak great English at all. Excuse me. But he doesn't need to. It's not necessary for him to do that because he's working on a website. Now, if I had somebody on the phone talking to customers, I would need a high level of English for that particular one, that particular job. Finding freelance talent is like finding employees with agencies and online postings and referrals and opportunities to identify talent. It takes some effort. I don't want to run over to that one of my 912. We're doing good. There's a number of popular freelance recruiting websites, including many where you can actually view available freelance or some sites offer detailed freelance or experience descriptions, work samples, client reviews. And I read these reviews. I really do. I want to know what is the issue with this person? You can also post your need in a professional group. So, you know, if you know a group, IT group or something like that, something on Facebook. Next thing you got to do is screen these people. Screen your potential freelancers. Finding the right freelance fit is as important as finding the right employee. There's no difference. There's no difference if they're coming into your office or if they're just logging on to their laptop. It's the same experience. You want to know that the freelancers have the knowledge, the tools, the mindset to successfully complete the project. You also want to know that they're motivated to finish the task. Now, I have different kinds of freelancers. So, if I go hire somebody on Fiverr or Upwork, I know I'm hiring somebody that does one-off jobs. I know that for a fact. But there are other websites. I have some people in the Philippines, and I use what's it called, onlinejobs.ph. Those people are looking for full-time work. They want to work every single week and get a paycheck. They want to work for you for months or years. So, that's where I would go hire somebody like that. Understand these websites attract different kinds of freelancers, too. Now, also, when you get different freelancers, I've found that different countries are better for certain types of jobs. So, if I need data entry, where somebody is just going to be entering data, I've found that Pakistan works really well. I hired people in Pakistan and had them for years who were entering my orders, and I have a lot of that stuff automated now. If I need IT work, work on my Magento website, or WordPress website, or something like that, I go to India. I've found that some of the best workers are in India. They are also for graphics. India is very, very good. Book editing, I found somebody in Mexico that was very good, and you would think, well, isn't that Spanish? Well, normally it is, but it was an older guy who is from the US and he's an expat living down in Mexico, so he was very good there. And then, you know, I have some social media, video editing things, and I use the Philippines for that. Along with phone work, the Philippines is really good. If you need people on the phone talking to your customers, I like the Philippines a lot for that. But they got to be trained. Okay, don't expect them to get on the phone and know everything about your company, know everything about you, do everything perfectly, and you didn't train them. You got to train them. You got to get them a guide. This is what I expect. Let's see, when I used a freelance in India and it was a lot of communication to get what we needed done. It can be. It can be depending on, you know, what you need to have done. And I appreciate you putting your comment in there, Paul. And guys, use that comment section. It doesn't matter if it's live or not. You can also put it in the comment section below the video once it's not live and it's just an uploaded video. Right now we're live, so you can use that chat section and ask whatever questions you want. Next up, pay them fairly. Now, I touched upon this in the beginning, but I almost want to overpay, okay? I want to overpay. I want to pay more than anybody else is paying. And the reason I'm doing that is because I'm going to attract the best people. The best people are going to want to come to work for me. Plus, they're going to feel more vested in my company. I don't want them to have a job where they're going, well, you know, I could go get this job tomorrow. I mean, this guy pays what everybody else does and if I don't like him today or I don't like what I have to do today, I'll just switch him to another company. You don't want that. You want a job where they go, man, this person really treats me fair. They don't work me to death and they pay me a really decent salary. You know, I want to work there. He treats me decent. That's what you want your employees' freelancers saying. Next up, on certain jobs, you want to have a contract, okay? Once you've found a freelancer for the project, have them sign a contract that clearly outlines the expectations, deliverables, deadlines and fees before their work gets done. I've seen a lot of people say, yeah, I'm going to hire this person for $150 and then the person comes back and says, well, you didn't tell me you wanted this, this, this, this. It's going to cost $300. So they didn't clearly communicate what the job was and what they expected out of this person. Should the freelancer provide regular updates for project progress? Don't assume, don't assume that they're going to do what you would do because they're not you, okay?  I don't want to work for you anymore, okay? So let them know up front what you expect and sometimes you have to alter things. I had one of my people sending me a report, a daily report on certain things and then I assigned a whole lot more tasks to them and the daily report became too much work so we got rid of that, okay? As long as they get their work done, they're happy with them. Will you only hear from them when the project is complete? Maybe that's the kind of job you have at them. Should things not go well? How do you end the contract? What do you do? You need to talk to them. And I always, when people screw up or make mistakes or whatever, which they will, don't sit there and think that nobody's ever going to make a mistake because you make mistakes, too. Everybody makes mistakes. Don't beat them up over it, okay? Just say, hey, man, this didn't work out. Let's try it this way and we'll get it right. You know? And I like to do that three times. The third time I get rid of the person, okay? If I have to tell them, you know, first time, hey, maybe I didn't train you right, maybe I didn't show you what you need to do. So that's the first time. And then the second time is like, hey, I told you about this before. Remember we talked about this. And then the third time is, hey, I don't think this is going to work out. I think, you know, we need to part company. So you have to have a pattern there. It's a three-part pattern that I use. And I've used that for years, even when I was hiring people one-on-one, which I ran car dealerships for years, and I hired thousands of people. But I always use that same thing because a lot of times when an employee is not doing what you want them to do, it's because you didn't communicate it well. So my next thing is continually communicate. Communication is essential to managing a project and building trust between you and your freelancers to help build that relationship, communicate with your freelancers throughout the project. Let them know what you see.  This is wrong. If you see that they did something right, if you see that they did something good, let them know that too. Say, hey, you know, Mark, you did a really good job.  It was really cool. I appreciate it. Let them get some positive feedback too. Don't assume that all your feedback has to be negative. It doesn't, okay? And you want to create an open line of communication so that they can share their thoughts and progress and discuss things with you also, okay? They're part of your team. They're part of your company. They're helping you earn a living, treat them as such. Regular communication can also circumvent problems, okay? We don't want to have problems. We don't have to. Avoid micro-managing. This is a big one, I think. Whether you work with just one or an occasional project or several freelancers, you know, you don't want to micromanage them. Offer encouragement and feedback and all that, like onlinejobs.ph and a couple of other sites I use have this thing called a time, it's a time thing. And basically what it does is it monitors how much time they're working on your project and it sends you reports and it knows what hours they log in, what hours they log out. And I hate it.  And what I mean by that is, if I hire you and you've got to log in and I want to see what hours you're working, that's just like saying, I don't trust you unless you use this, okay? Now, I'm going to be honest with you. I know for a fact, some of the people that work for me screw off. I know they do.  I know that there's times when they're supposed to be working and they don't work. And you know what? I bet you have done the same thing yourself. Would you want somebody looking over your shoulder all the time? Here's how I judge my employees. Are they getting the job done satisfactorily or better than what I expected? And if so, why would you check on them? Why don't you just leave them alone? You know, maybe they want to take a nap in the afternoon because they don't feel good, but they still got your job done. Why do you care? Why do you need to monitor somebody? The answer is you don't, unless you don't trust them. And if you don't trust them, why don't you hire them? You know, why did you hire the people? When I actually ran car dealerships and I had employees that worked for me, I had a standing rule and the standing rule was anytime you didn't want to come to work, you didn't have to. Anytime you wanted to leave early, you could leave early. If you wanted to come in late, you could come in late. All you had to do is tell me. But the key to this was you didn't have to tell me why. You didn't have to tell me your grandma died. You didn't have to tell me that you had a fever of 101. You could just say, hey, I'm not going to be there tomorrow. And I would say, okay, not a problem. Now you would say, well, JR, wouldn't they get out of hand to where people just quit showing up? If they did, I would fire them. It's that simple. But if somebody needs to take some time off for some, you know, mental tranquility or physically they're just worn out. Why would you ask them why? What difference does it make? Why does it make a difference? If they're at home watching TV and they feel okay, or if they're at home and they have a fever of 101, it makes no difference. They're still not at your place of employment. They're still not working. So that's my standing rule. So when people screw off that work for me, I don't mind as long as they get the job done. Now if they're screwing off and things aren't getting done, we're going to have a conversation. Okay, we're going to talk about that. And step in if necessary. If you need to help these people do the job, step in and help them. And that's another thing I want to get to. Don't hire somebody to do a job that you don't understand or know how it works, okay? You can't manage what you don't know. Now I'm not saying you have to know all your technical stuff on your website, but I am saying, you know, if you have a, let's say, I'll bring up Billy, hey Billy, or Mark, okay, who does sales pages. I will say this is what I want. This is what I expect out of this video. This is what I expect out of the sales page. And I know what I expect and I know how long it should take. And that's how you need to manage it. Because if you don't understand what that person is doing, you're going to ask too much of them or not enough of them. You don't want either one of those to happen.  You can get rid of them. They're not an employee, but if things become, you know, uncomfortable and things aren't getting done, your project's not completed, then you can just end the contract. It's over with, okay? Ending a freelance contract should truly be the last resort. I mean, I want to really work with people. And I fire very few people because I want to give them a chance. And I think they do want to do a good job. I think most people do want to do a good job. And I think most people screw off every now and then too, because we're all human. I screw off every now and then, right? And then provide rewards and recognitions. You know, I do decent raises over periods of time. You know, maybe once a year or something like that. Sometimes I've done it more, but you got to continually up the pay that people are getting. Okay? You got to make them feel like they are wanted. Okay? That's super important. Everyone appreciates being respected and thanked, but money also matters. Okay? If the project goes well, consider giving the person a small gift for a token of your appreciation, a tip or something. Offer to provide references. Positive reviews and more work in the future. The successful freelancer might even be your next, you know, full time hire. Okay? I've done that. Adding freelance labor to your company really takes planning and dedication and oversight, but that outside expertise and talent can really supplement your in-house team and add skills and expertise as needed. You want to treat these freelancers as people as friends, as family. Okay? They're not somebody for you to bark orders at. Okay? If you've never managed people, you may not understand that. You want them to feel like they're part of your family. Okay? And they should be, right? Because they're supporting your family. They're supporting your income. You need to treat people right. And that's one thing I've really seen when people hire freelancers, they don't treat them right. Okay? Let me look here. I've got, Tayan says, I have such a difficult time with accents. I'm from the upper Midwest. I just don't have a ton of experience with other languages or accents. Tayan, it's not just you. Everybody does. Everybody does. And some people who have an accent, it's thicker than others. My neighbor who's moving in next door is from India. And really nice guy. And I met him the other day. They're building his house now. And he's one of the executives at Apple. And he has an accent. But it's not much of an accent. Okay? I can tell he's from India. He looks like he's from India. And I can hear it in his accent. Now, my guy who works with my Magento website, I can maybe make out every third or fourth word. So we have, we have difficult times in conversation. So we tend to type out a lot of stuff. So sometimes you need to change how you communicate with them.  You can't understand them. No, it's different. It's different for every single person. Okay. Like my neighbor communicates extremely well. He's very articulate. You can hear an accent, but you can make out every single word. My guy who works with my Magento website. Not so much. Very difficult to make out what the heck he's saying. So it varies. It varies by country. It varies by accent. And the more you do it, okay, the more you talk to people from other countries, the better off you're going to be. So what did you think of today's session? Did you get something out of it? Do you understand stuff a little bit more? Do you see how you can save some money? You know, I can pay less money in India for a certified Magento developer because in the U.S. I'm gonna pay 500 bucks an hour and I pay him $20 to $25 an hour. Okay. Which is a lot of money in India.  And I'm paying 25 bucks an hour. So, you know, that is there for you. Somebody is hitting my phone. Why would they do that when I'm live? I just don't understand. Let me kill that. Sorry about that, guys. So yeah, freelancers are great. There's some great websites. I would recommend, let me put a couple of those in here real quick too. Where am I at? Where am I at? Streamyard. I would do, I think, Upwork.com. Upwork.com. Com. That's right. Oh, that's a comma. Wait. Upwork.com. I would recommend Freelancer. Lancer.com. These are all good guys. I would also recommend, oh, that didn't work. Let me try that again. Freelancer. There you go. Lancer. I gotta reach a long ways to get to the computer. Let's see. L-A-N-C-E-R.com. I like that one. I like Fiber. So let me put that in there. Fiber.com. I think that's a good one. Stick that in there.  But guys, if you don't have some freelance employees, if you don't have some people from these other countries, you're missing the boat. I can tell you right now in India, they have some of the highest technical people you'll ever see in India. They're really good at what they do. Why not hire them? Don't let an accent or something like that prevent you from doing it because you could overcome that with the way you communicate. Like I said, you could type stuff out. And they're very good about typing and communicating in English that way to do that. So I hope you enjoyed it. Paul says lots of great information. Where in Philippines do you look for freelance? My people are in Manila, but I don't really look where in the Philippines. I use, like I said, that site onlinejobs.ph. Let me put that in here because if you want Filipino people. Online jobs. But keep in mind, onlinejobs.ph is primarily people who want full-time work. So if you've got a part-time job or a one-off job, you could hire somebody, but you're not going to get the best people because that's not what that website is set up for. It's set up for people who want to find full-time jobs with a company. But I don't really, do you find it easier to communicate in the Philippines over India? No, I don't find one's easier than the other. It's once again, it's back to the individual. Some people in India are very, very articulate. My next door neighbor is, okay? He's an executive with Apple, so he's brought a little exception. But some people in the Philippines are very, very articulate. But sometimes I get customer support. I was on customer support the other day for Verizon, which sucked. And I spent like two hours on the phone talking to these people. And the first two people were the Philippines, and I understand most of what they were saying. And that's who Verizon hired. Where do you look for your graphic work? It depends, Paul. It depends on if it's a one-off project or if it's ongoing. If it's ongoing, I'm going to go to the Philippines. If it's a one-off project, I'm going to go to Fiverr or Upwork or something like that because those sites are known for one-off projects. So it really depends on the job itself. Where I hire my full-time people and where I hire the part-time people and where I hire project people, all vary. It all varies. It varies on the project. It varies on how long the project is. It varies on what I'm going to pay for it. It varies on how soon I need it. There's just so many different things. But those are great questions. Thank you so much for posting those in there, Paul. I do appreciate it. All right, guys. So tomorrow I will not be here. I got a doctor's appointment at 7.45. I'm going to be the doctor at 7.45 just to check up type thing, nothing going on. I got to get a new doctor or new primary care because I moved to Texas and we got new insurance. So you got to have a primary care and then you got to get your specialty doctor. No, no, no, no. Get all that stuff going. So guys, I really appreciate you being here. If you haven't subscribed yet, please do so. Hit that subscribe button down there. Hit it hard. Hit it hard. You got to hit it so hard it turns gray. It should be red if you haven't subscribed. Then once you do that, a bell is going to pop up. You want to ring the bell. Turn on all notifications so you're notified each and every time I go live or if I upload a new video. And guys, also feel free to put in that chat or the comment section if you're not watching this live. Any ideas you have that you want to learn about on online businesses and growing your businesses, put that in there. I answer all my own questions. Nobody's answering questions for me. So if you do post a question and you get an answer and I can't answer 100%, but I try really hard. It's me answering. Okay. It's nobody else. I sit down, you know, once or twice a week and I just go through all those. I do a lot of top to text. So if I mess up a word, it's because I'm doing talk to text. I don't type stuff out. I'm too slow. But that's what I got for you today. You guys have a great day. I'm going to try to be live on Saturday. If you're interested in me doing something Saturday, put something in the chat box, put something in the comment section. The more encouragement I get, the more likely I am to do it. So thank you so much guys for being here.  I'm off to go to work.