Hey guys, how are you today? So we're here to work with and review a brand new product I have some details about it where you can get it and details about something that I'll talk about at the end of the video. There's gonna be a little surprise at the end over in my blog so this video is part of a blog hop and I want to encourage you to go Over to my blog the link for it will be in the description below. It's part of my website Gina be errands comm there's going to be a link to the other blogs that are in the hop and Some really great fun projects all using this new product. So this is a deck of cards called art sparks They are by Karen. I Don't want to mispronounce her last name Oh Yeah, Friedland sorry Karen And they look really interesting. I haven't opened them yet. I wanted to open them on camera the time They're really cute. We packaged in a little organza bag and the little tag says Art sparks creative project deck inspiring you to express yourself creatively with projects that spark your success And the cards I know from chatting with Karen have pictures of her artwork on the front and then some sort of Inspiration thing on the back. So let's open it up. Let's take the tag off And I have to say I'm gonna take this card that is from here You know, I'm gonna save this because I could use it for something And I'm gonna put it with the cards So here is her business card With it with you get it looks like it. There's a percentage off And here are the cards. So let's open them all of this and I'm gonna zoom in. There we go Let's get a pair of scissors Kyla gives give hands inspiration deck, which I love. In fact, I think I have almost all of her additional Packs to I love her cards. So I was really anxious to see these the artwork I haven't looked at the bag yet, but the artwork on the front of these cards. Look at this artwork people Love the artwork on the front of the cards aren't they pretty you I mean I Could get so much inspiration by just looking at the front of these cards inspiration for color and form Composition really really there's some great work on the front of these cards Love them. Love them. Love them Okay, so here's a couple of looks like instruction cards in the back Have a ball with your art sparks creative projects deck to order more art spark decks and to shop for original paintings and prints Go to Karen Friedland comm or email her Materials to use with this deck drawing materials paint paintings supports like paper canvas boards Some projects also require gesso. There's a hashtag a Facebook group Cool cool cool. Alright, so let's put those two up to the side and let's take a look at some of the back sides So this is this purple card and this is I love the colors on the front of this card I mean I'm in a purple thing right now the back of it says Imagination journey Imagine you're in a huge bubble quite high looking down at the landscape. Are you in the city? Are there sounds? Do you see homes trees water people? Take it take in all you see below you notice the feelings these sites bring the light colors You're coming to more open spaces. What is the typography? Are there mountains desert forest? Take in the vista from above let this inspire an artwork You know, I love that and it's really she's not telling you to draw a flower But she's giving you an idea of where to go with an image or a feeling I might want to do that purple one. So let's just kind of pick a card I might want to do the purple one, but I don't know. Let's see. There's one with an elephant Just like we respond to our environment. So do colors We see colors differently depending on the color surrounding them You can play with this by placing a one inch square of color in the center of a different colored background When does the colored square come forward? When does it recede? Are there times when both the square and the background seem to be on the same plane? So all of the cards are like that. So I'm going to pick one. I'm going to Use it as inspiration to create a journal page I'm gonna fast-forward through the process and I'll be back at the end Don't forget to stay for the end because there is a surprise This is our page created from our art spark card that I chose. I love it It reminds me of one of those impressionist paintings Where it's a city street scene and it's been wet and rainy and all the city night lights are on and They're reflecting off all the water on the ground and the buildings and everything's just deliciously kind of blurry and abstract I love that. That's not where I thought this was gonna go and I wasn't really thinking about it I was looking at the art spark card and letting it inspired me about where the page wanted to go and I love it These are really fun cards to work with and could be interpreted so many different ways I think you guys would really enjoy them now the surprise bit about this blog hop is that She's giving away a deck of cards So there's a raffle copter link in the description below and there'll be two winners One winner is gonna win a deck of Karen's cards the other winner I'm gonna give them a copy of my new book Creativity and self-expression a journey. It is a journaling workbook It won't tell you how to draw a flower, but it may ask you why do you want to draw the flower is Drawing the flower gonna make you happy So if you want to figure out what in your life is gonna make you happy how to work it into your life how to Do that in a way that? Doesn't offend those that you love around you this is a book filled with questions to ask yourself and Pages for you to work through those questions Artwork that you can color in and pictures of my studio space and all of that stuff kind of little mini Conversations with me. So anyway, so one person will win a copy of my book The other person is gonna win a caught a deck of Karen's cards so enter in the raffle copter link below or over on my blog it'll be over there too and Think about getting a deck of these cards because they're really fun. That's it for today. Don't forget the most important thing Go out and have a great day. Do something nice for yourself because you deserve it and I'll see you later. Bye guys


Okay, so right now we're standing outside of Pod 3. We have four pods sitting on the runway here with about 12,000 people. So in Pod 3 right now, we've got 2,700 Afghan travelers. And they're currently going through their departure process. So they've been here for about six days in our pod. And they're now starting the process of moving down to the other end of the runway to get up and move onward to the United States. I'm assigned to the 361st Civil Affairs Brigade. We've been activated to come here and provide intercultural communication support to the Air Force. And so mostly what I'm doing is liaising between the Air Force and the Afghan people, between the Army and the Air Force, and then between inter-agency organizations such as USAID and the Army. And the Task Force is here. It's a lot of work and you get some wins. And those wins are the things that are keeping you going. So I worked a family reunification yesterday. And that was probably one of the most rewarding things that I've done. So a family got separated after they all got flights out of Afghanistan. And then we were able to identify that they were on a different area from where we are here and the family got separated. And so we got them back in communication with each other and then put them back together and they were super happy. So the US government has evacuated Afghan nationals, American passport holders, American green card holders out of there. People that have been supporting us over the last 20 years to include visa holders from other countries as well. So we've taken 140,000 Afghans out of Afghanistan and are now slowly processing through here at Ramstein and other bases around. I think currently I've heard the number that they process somewhere between 12 and 20,000 people through here. So this has been one of the largest learning curves for us. So this is an Air Force-led operation. And so us as Army soldiers, we've been integrating into their process and operation and taking our functions and jobs and figuring out how we can fit into them because the Air Force themselves don't have a civil affairs component. And so there's been an amount of us explaining what it is that we do and how we can fit into their operational process and get out there and communicate with people because this is something that we do. With the Germans, there's a small there's a German contingent running around here. Those guys are super helpful. They're always happy to pitch in whenever they see us getting out there and getting them to work. So handing out food or giving out deliverables and things like that. They're there with us on the line talking to people. Yeah, they're a good bunch, guys.


Hi and how are you all today? My name is Priyanka and let us discuss this question. It says find the missing frequency in the following table. Mean is given to us as 50 and total frequency is given to us as 20. These are the class intervals and the corresponding frequencies which are given to us. Now let us proceed with our solution. Let us make a table. Now here with the help of these class intervals and the frequency we will first find out xi that is the midpoint of this class interval that is 0 plus 20 divided by 2 that gives us 10, 20 plus 40 divided by 2 gives us 30 and so on with the difference of 20 we will write down all the xi's. Now we will find ui that is xi minus 50 that is the mean which is given to us in the question and that we will divide by h which will be the common factor of all ui's that is 10 minus 50 will give us minus 40 minus 40 divided by 20 will give us minus 2 so that means here h is 20. Now 30 minus 50 that is minus 20 divided by 20 gives us minus 1 and so on. We will find all the ui's. Now we will multiply f with ui to give us fi ui and that is 17 into minus 2 minus 34 fi into minus 1 gives us minus f sorry f1 f1 into minus 1 minus f1 32 into 0 0 f2 into 1 gives us f2 19 into 2 gives us 38. Now the sum of all these frequencies are equal to 68 plus f1 plus f2 and here we have summation fi ui equal to 4 minus f1 plus f2 but in the question we are given that the sum of all the frequencies is equal to 120 right. So here we will equate it to 120 which will help us to find out the sum of f1 and f2 that is 120 minus 68 that is equal to 50 to let this be the first equation further. We can find the mean by using this shortcut method that is given to us as 50 plus that is the mean plus h that is 20 which we took here divided ui by h every time into summation fi ui divided by total number of frequencies that is 120. This implies mean is equal to 50 plus 4 minus f1 plus f2 upon 6. This implies we are given mean as 50 let us substitute it so 50 is equal to 50 plus 4 minus fi plus f1 plus f2 upon 6 which is equal to 4 minus f1 plus f2 upon 6 is equal to 0 which further gives us 4 minus f1 plus f2 is equal to 0 which is f1 minus f2 is equal to 4 let this be the second equation. Now the two equations that we have are f1 plus f2 is equal to 52 and f1 minus f2 is equal to 4. Now on adding these two equations these two will get cancelled out we have 2f1 is equal to 50 6 that implies f1 is equal to 56 divided by 2 that is 28 if f1 is 28 then f2 will be equal to 24 so the answer to the session is f1 is equal to 28 and f2 is equal to 24 right so this completes the solution hope you understood it well enjoy it to have a nice day ahead.


CT chest and labs are within normal limits. Dr. Wood, just before we continue, I just, it may be confusing for some of the people that the biopsy showed on because I told them but the lesion was still treated. I know that we do it, some of you tend to do a biopsy separate from the time of ablation, others have a patient get biopsy prior to ablation. Whether or not the biopsy's being done for active surveillance or for diagnostic purposes prior to treatment can sometimes change how things occur. So had the biopsy been done prior to thermal ablation, thermal ablation may not have been completed. That's correct, and that's the challenge, and that's something else that we struggle with with patients here, particularly at MD Anderson, because patients usually come from far away. And so to tell them to come here, have a biopsy, wait three days to get a result, and then have a subsequent procedure. Obviously they want to economize their time and minimize the amount of hotel bills and so forth, and so to accommodate that many times we'll do the biopsy and then do the procedure, but in this case this patient probably could have gotten by without a procedure. All right, so good point, Brian. Bypass times four, CT chest negative, labs within normal limits. Here's the tumor. Here's another view. Dr. Karam, what do you think? Discuss all the options and recommend partial infractomy. How would you do it open? Robotic, what? This one I would do it robotic, just based on the location and the size of the tumor. It's small enough and peripheral enough and the kidney to do it. Would you biopsy, though? No. Okay, Dr. Matin, thoughts? No, I agree. I think it's robotic partial would be fine. Cameron, what do you think about ablating it? I think it's doable. It's on the larger size. I would probably put calipers on it and measure it carefully, but it's exophitic, which means that it doesn't involve the central portion of the kidney, so tumors that are more exophitic or grow out of the kidney are easier to treat. It's surrounded by intra-abdominal fat. There is nothing around it, so technically it's feasible. Does tumor size influence your choice of RFA versus cryo? Yes, it does. In fact, larger tumors are, there's a cutoff for the RFA. RFA is very effective up until 3.6, 3.7 centimeters.  All of a sudden, your effectiveness drops significantly, so people have tried cryoplation, and yes, you can create a very large ice ball, but it does require placing multiple cryoprobes and being very aggressive, and that also increases the risk of bleeding. The group at Mayo Clinic treats tumors that are as large as seven or eight centimeters. I think all of those patients really should go to surgery, but I guess if surgery is not an option. The largest we have treated probably about five or six centimeters. There are other adjuvant things we can do to enhance the ablation. We can actually get inside the kidney to run an angiography approach and block some of the blood supply to the tumor, and actually that creates a kind of blood deficient area, if you will, a hypovascular zone where the ablation is actually more effective. So yes, larger tumors can be treated if needed, but obviously if the patient is a surgical candidate, surgery would be a better option. So this patient underwent a right partial nephrectomy with intraoperative ultrasound. Final pathology reveals a right renal mass, renal cell carcinoma, nuclear grade two, four centimeters in diameter, confined to the kidney, margin of one millimeter. Dr. Delacroix, the margin of one millimeter, that sounds really close. Is that a problem? This is renal cancer, we're not breast cancer. One millimeter, yes it is close, but it really has no clinical implications. I treat this as a negative margin, nothing different. So the message is, I mean again, in trying to spare nephrons, any margin is a good margin as long as it's a negative margin. So this patient comes back for first year evaluation, chest X-ray CT abdomen are negative. The patient develops recurrent right flank pain, gross hematuria, and it's September of 2012, so two years after surgery. The meds haven't really changed, no interval change in past medical history. And here's the scan. So you can see here's the right renal remnant, and there's this rather large tumor hanging off the right renal remnant, extending to the body wall, and may or may not be involving the retroperitoneal musculature as well as the rib. Here's another view. Again, you can see lots of postoperative change, potential extension to the side wall here, but definitely a recurrent tumor present in the right kidney. And if you go back, it's kind of where the old tumor was, but perhaps maybe a new tumor, hard to say. What was his initial surgery? And the patient now had, I'm sorry? What was his initial surgery? What did y'all do? What did we do? It was an open partial? Yeah, okay. So the patient presents now with this, and then on CT scan, we see a nodule in the right lung as well as some nodules in the left lung. So patient had a localized tumor, four centimeters, resected as a sort of, what looks like an aggressive recurrence with pulmonary nodules. Dr. Karam, how would you approach this patient? So I assume this patient has a good performance status, and except for the growth cemetery? Correct. I would offer the patient surgery. Number one, he has the bulk of the disease or the cancer is in the kidney and the abdomen area, so I would resect all of that aggressively. The bulk of the disease is there, so that's where we should go. And the other thing is the patient's symptomatic, the patient has bleeding in the urine and surgery will take care of that as well. And then give the patient a break and then refer him to our colleagues with medical oncology to offer him therapy. Any role for biopsy here? Biopsy of the primary tumor or biopsy of one of the lung nodules? No, I think it would be safe to presume it's the same type of tumor, and even if it's not, the patient's still symptomatic and good performance status and has a problem in that kidney that needs to go away. So I would not biopsy the patient. All right, you refer the patient to Dr. Taneer prior to surgery. Dr. Taneer, how would you counsel this patient? I agree with Dr. Karam. I would go with surgery upfront. For the reasons Dr. Karam mentioned, the bulk of the disease is in the kidney or the remnant of the right kidney. The patient is symptomatic, is bleeding. I would do surgery first. Michael, any difference from that? Would you recommend surgery? I would recommend surgery. And I guess we're kind of alluding to the fact that there's not a lot of data for cytoreductum nefrectomy. In our current era, there were two trials that had virtually identical inclusion criteria in the so-called cytokine era that showed a benefit in terms of overall survival for cytoreductum nefrectomy. We're presuming that there's that benefit now, although there will be several trials. Carmina included that may answer that question. And then in addition, as far as our new targeted therapies go, most of the patients in those studies, so 80, 90%, had had cytoreductum nefrectomy or nefrectomy one way or another. So we're presuming there's a benefit. I think for the people in the audience, we've all of a sudden introduced this new word, cytoreductive. We should just clarify. Everything you've seen up to this point has been renal masses without disease that has spread somewhere else. Cytoreductive nefrectomy is when you have a very good idea and you can see disease that's spread elsewhere, should we be treating the primary tumor? And that's what we're discussing here. Thank you. Let them know. So the patient undergoes cytoreductive nefrectomy. It's clear cell histology, T3A. Patient returns in follow-up six weeks later, has same pulmonary nodules that have slightly increased in size. Michael, what are you gonna counsel this patient? What are you gonna recommend? So I was trying to remember the patient's comorbidities and things like that, but I think depending on the patient's comorbidities. Hypertension and coronary artery disease status supposed to bypass. Yeah, so we're always thinking whether high-dose interleukin-2 is an option, probably based on the patient's history, I would be concerned that that patient could tolerate the different fluid shifts associated with that. If the patient were motivated, we could pursue further workup, including cardiac echoes and pulmonary function tests and things. Again, we're assuming we've removed the bulk of the patient's disease in the kidney and there are only some several small bilateral pulmonary nodules. I think most likely, though, the case is gonna be either number two or number four, thinking about our VEGF receptor TKIs, Sunitinib or Pazopinib, or certainly clinical trial. This is probably a good or intermediate-risk patient, and that would be level one evidence or standard of care. Did you do the nephrectomy through the previous flank incision or did you go through abdominal incision? Abdominal incision. And was it involving the liver, no? No. Dr. Tiniar, what are your thoughts? I agree with Michael. The patient is not accounted for high-dose R2 because of coronary artery disease and bypass. He's at risk of having cardiac arrhythmias and potentially fatal complication from that. So the options would be target therapy. I prefer participation in the clinical trial. It depends on the patient where the patient lives and if the patient's gonna be followed at MD Anderson or followed up locally. I think it's always more convenient for a patient to take an oral agent. So while B. vicissimab plus interferon is an option based on level one evidence similar to synitinib and pazopinib, I think you're given the patient two parenteral agents, one IV vicissimab and the other one is interferon injections. So the inconvenience, the cost of that would make me, if the patient is not interested in clinical trial or cannot come here, then I think synitinib or pazopinib would be the two options. Which of the two? I think data, they're comparable in efficacy. I think one would look at the patient's liver function test, history of any liver disease, where the risk of pazopinib having liver toxicity will be higher than that will be sway me towards giving them synitinib. And then if again, the patient wants to follow up locally, I think it's always important for the patient and for our professional relationship with our colleagues who refer patients here is to discuss the patient with the local oncologist. If the local oncologist is comfortable using synitinib then I think synitinib would be fine. If they prefer to use pazopinib then I think pazopinib is fine. So are the two equivalent, essentially? I think in terms of efficacy, there is a trial that was presented last year in Europe. The compares trial looking at both agents in a phase three trial that included 1100 patients. The efficacy was comparable. So that trial was designed with a primary endpoint non-inferiority based on progression-free survival, which means the time from initiation of therapy until there is disease progression or death, the two arms, the two drugs produced basically similar or comparable results. In terms of toxicity, I think each drug has its own adverse events. Synitinib, for those patients of you who have taken it, is associated with more fatigue than pazopinib overall. Pazopinib, as I said, is associated with more liver toxicity. I think they both produce about the same in Daria, although synitinib causes more hand-foot skin reaction, which is the blisters, calluses on the hands and feet. But I think synitinib has been on the market longer, so it was approved in January 2006. Seven-plus years, I think there are patients who are survivors past five years on synitinib. I think the follow-up with pazopinib is shorter, so I think that should also be taken into account. So it remains to be seen whether five years from now the two drugs produced the same fraction of patients who are alive past five years. But for all practice purposes, I think they're comparable in their efficacy. Okay.


so we can legally meet here without breaking the open meeting law and we'll start by asking welcome Harlan just in time, asking for anyone has any amendments to the agenda Bruce? I'd like to talk about the sidewalk in front of Pierce Hall. You said Pierce Hall and I thought Parkhouse was the next one. Nope. Nope. The other side of the street. Let's talk about the Belmont Trail and a planning grant opportunity. Belmont Trail? Belmont. What is it? Belmont Trail. Yeah, he'll go into more detail probably. And anyone else? Then since you probably, are you here to talk about the Belmont Trail also? Yeah, thanks. Since you traveled the farthest one, we opened with that so you guys can get on with your evening. Yeah, sure. Did that work for everybody else? Okay, there you go. Right now? Right now? All right. Invited RJ Thompson. Everybody I'm hanging from the custer, most of you probably know me. This is RJ Thompson, still from the Executive Director from the Huston Association. I don't know if you guys heard about the Chittendenbrook Integrated Resource Project. The Forest Service is doing and they from our association have to propose a hut location of the Chittendenbrook. They're still pending approval. So the reason why I'm here to talk about what we call the Belmont Trail, which is essentially a point to point mountain bike trail. Non-motorized or multi-use as well from Stowe to Killington is the goal, the phase one goal if you will. Vermont has generally a lot of really nice mountain biking opportunities, but most communities are kind of centered around these little spaghetti bowl of trail that works with kind of loops, loops, loops, loops. So there's a lack of going from this community to the next community connection. So we've been talking about this for a couple years now with our neighbors. Pittsfield, Killington, River Valley, Stowe. The idea is every Rosta, including Rochester Randolph area, Forest Trail Alliance, is a local mountain bike association chapter here. And the other ones I mentioned are also chapters of the Belmont Bike Association. So we've been talking to each other about the idea of connecting all of our networks. And the reasoning for that is it's very common out west where you can ride long distance from point to point. You know, same thing with a hiking trail, a long trail. You can ride, you know, hike from one end or from the other. Or ski, the kind of mountain trail, same thing. Or fast and so on. You can essentially ride all over the state. But there is something missing for mountain biking. And mountain biking is a growing sport, one of the fastest growing sport. And it's a great opportunity to provide something that's unique to anywhere else in the Northeast, essentially. So, you know, the benefit for it would be the local benefits. You know, the local residents can use these trails. But it's also a benefit that it can be an economic impact. Get a couple extra folk coming into town to visit to use this trail network. So, it's a pretty ambitious project. We estimate it will be over 80 miles of new single track trails on these people in order to make the connection happy between Stowe and Kilington. So, a lot of money. So, one of the things that we have been discussing with our partners. We've been meeting with the Forest Service as well as the state.  So, man, one of the things that we're realizing is, you know, the planning purposes. We have, you know, questions we want to have answers. Where should this trail go? Ideally, most of it would go on public lands. The Forest Service and state would be the prime example. But, you know, how do we pay for or how do we get, you know, the layout design and all that stuff. So, the Vermont has a Vermont community program planning grant. What's the Vermont Development Community? Yeah, you see the community development planning grant. A couple of different grant categories through which towns comply for funding. And one of those categories is a planning grant that would allow the towns to conduct a number of studies. This one in particular would likely be an economic impact study to see what this trail network could do on the economic side for rural communities. Basically, we would, I think, go include Pittsfield through. Yeah, at this point we're thinking Rochester, Hancock and Granville. We've been told that those are great candidates for this particular grant. It's the HCC Commerce and Community Development. And I think in the past, you know, Hancock applied for one for the school renovation, building renovation there, the town office and stuff. So we've reached out to Rivers to see, you know, there's a lot of upfront paperwork required and we don't want to burden the town with it, anything. They talked to Rita and they are willing to help see this through for the grant opportunity. So it's just a planning grant. It's not a grant to build a trail. It's just to see, you know, what's possible, what's feasible, economic study. To see if this is what everybody wants, essentially, in this area. But yeah, I'm going to pass around some stuff to kind of give you guys an example of what you haven't been up to. The Rochester Ranger Station, last fall we, Rosta, constructed a two mile new mountain bike trail network behind the Ranger Station and hope is to essentially connect that from there up to Chittendenbrook and over to Pittsfield so that you allow, essentially you can walk right here out of the village. The community can just go to the mountains on trails. Right now there's kind of a, you know, unless you're a automobile and you can't really get to the trails in a friendly way from mountain biking and hiking. So that's kind of the underlying goal and I'll pass around some examples of the pictures of the trail. The trail is not like a typical hiking trail. It goes straight up and down. Everything is 10% average. So it's kind of a loss of switchback. So it's great for walking, running.  The reason for the kind of gradual stuff is it's more sustainable. They're not dealing with erosion when you have a steep trail. It's a lot of sustainable practice that you're going to develop in the trail. So I'll just pass this around and give you guys an example of the trail. The trail traffic was lovely. And that's a quick, just to show you all the different chapters involved that we're working with in partnership with Maha Association and for Mountain Bike Road Association, all the chapters. I also brought this chart. You guys may have heard of the branding gap. Backcountry zone up in branding gap. McRoss has been working on it with partnership with the Forest Service. This is actually from two years ago. This is a chart that shows a one day, February 18, 2017. They based on trail counters that were up there installed. 171 visitors came to use that area. Backcountry zone in one day. And this is based on a model that the developed by the National Park Service used to model the economic impact of National Parks and Recreation Assets in the Country. They estimated that just shy of $200,000 worth of economic impact funds came to the area.  That's just, I just wanted to bring that to show, you know, this is something we're thinking that could be, this is a great winter version in the backcountry skiing. But, you know, we need something, you know, we feel like we could do something for summer and mountain biking. It's a great opportunity to focus on that. Yeah, that's a great example because what that page does, I think, is kind of paint a little bit of a picture for what we'd be going for in terms of a study to see what we can gain out of this trail. So not just for one day, but over probably like an annual period that they would look at. And this is just kind of talked about the project and the end and just kind of an overview of what it is you put together. Different. So one thing I want to let RJ speak to more about, but great, we have a trail, but how do you get from one end to the other end? The idea is you can go from hut to hut. You want to explain a little more? Sure, yeah. Yeah, the Chindenbrook hut that Angus referenced is small. It's a 10-person hut. Probably about the size of the square footage area of this room, roughly maybe a little smaller actually. So the whole notion is, you know, the long trail, if anyone has ever been on a long trail, there's a number of shelters and lean-tos along the long trail.  So the huts will help to link the trail together and the towns as well. So kind of imagine being able to stay in a hut one evening and then bike or hike or walk into Rochester and grab a sandwich at Sandy's and then continue on your way north or south into the next hut. So Velomant, the idea is linking the communities with the forests, with the, you know, the wilderness. So in the evening, you can hang out on the huts, day, recreate. And maybe in the afternoon, you spend some time in towns and then head back up into the woods. I know, like on the Appalachian trail, long trail, typically huts and shelters are about a day's hike apart, which typically runs about 10 miles. What are you thinking about as far as these kind of trails? Yeah, right about that, between 10 and 15 miles apart. Yeah, because you're literally on a bike, so you can go a little further, a little faster. Right, that's what I was asking. Yeah, if you want to expand that out or keep it about the same as a typical hiking trail. Yeah, probably between maybe a little higher, closer to 15. 15, okay. Yeah, because they won't just be servicing mountain bikers. We're trying to locate huts. It's going to be a compromise to serve all. Exactly. We're trying to make them a year-round structure so that backcountry skiers could also utilize these huts as well. Yeah. You'll be able to cover a lot more ground compared to a long trail, to do with a trail tread. Sure. And it's not, you know, you're not going along the line the whole way.  Is the idea to build actual shelters or actual huts? Uh-huh, so an enclosed structure, yeah, so you can sleep in the winter as well. Oh, right. Yeah, the, um, and most of these will be below 2,500 feet elevation, so they're not, you know, the management fiasco at that point becomes much more challenging as you get higher and higher. Do you have any proposed trails, or are you still in the study stages of that? Actually, it's a great question. Um, there's a trail connecting Rochester and Pittsfield that's working its way through the Robinson IRP and the Great Resource Project. And I guess we'll talk a little bit about the distance of that trail and kind of more specific. Yeah, so essentially that's been going through several common periods. You may have heard about it already. A couple, we had one of the Rochester School a couple more last year, but basically it's proposed would be the Rochester Ranger Station. There's a two-mile trail network that got built last fall there, so you would hop across, um, going north, I mean, 100 foot good across the bridge by Martin Farm. Got landowner permission from the farm there, um, the canister as well. Mostly on Forest Service land, and then we come down to Bean Bridge, right after you cross Bean Bridge behind Crowley's Farm there. And then it would head up, uh, Bean Bridge, you know, going up, total growth more or less towards that way. But it would cut off, uh, utilize some existing Forest Service road where it's reasonable if it's not too steep. But we'll get too steep with where we do new trails up to Swan's Mill along the ridge on Swan's Mill, utilizing existing Forest Service road. And then it would pop off down to Bingo, um, then up and over Bingo, um, kind of end up at the base of Chittendenbrook, um, campground, uh, entrance there. And then it would go use some of the existing road. Um, so we're, I mean, not 100 percent of it is going to be a new trail, so we're trying to utilize some existing, but the goal is to have at least 70 percent of it to be, um, new single track trail. Um, so, you know, that the experience you want is a kind of a narrow, um, trail, not unnecessarily on a road. And then from Chittendenbrook, where the hut would be located, um, in the back of the zone, so it would be a year-round use up there. Um, and then it would go up and over essentially to Upper Michigan, in Upper Michigan Road in Pittsfield. And then that's kind of like the first phase, um, from there south and there north. Um, then that's where the planning grant would be helpful. It's like, where do we go from here in Rochester north to River Valley? So have you got this section here, Matt, though, somewhere? From here north we don't. Yeah, we're still on the planning basis for that. We have like, conceptually looking at, you know, a map. We can say, like, roughly this corridor, you know, kind of blob style, like, is where we would like to go. So we have an, it's not nearly as specific as heading south toward Pittsfield. Um, maybe I'm just, but where in Pittsfield do you end up with this one that starts at? Upper Michigan. Upper Michigan. Yeah, kind of way up there. So yeah, part of the planning grant would look at the NEPA process with the Forest Service, work with the Forest Service, you know. Um, they're valuable resource to have the Forest Service. They have a team of scientists, so when you propose something, they look at every single component. And that's where, you know, we want to stay away from wilderness. We want to stay away from through sensitive areas. Um, you know, they're the place for everything. So Forest Service has probably got some kind of idea where that's all, they must have it all plotted out. Uh, I wouldn't say that. He was asking if they have it all plotted out. They have, you know, the one heading south. The IRP, the IRP, there's a draft proposal. Yeah, I recall that phase two between Rochester and Pittsfield. We do have it laid out. It's actually flagged. Um, it hasn't been approved. They're still, you know, going through public input comments and all that. Um, but that is, you know, we've realized how much work this took and realized we need some help with this for the rest of it. So that's where we figured the planning grant would come in and we looked to continue this. Um, yeah. I have a couple of questions. What's the name of the trail? Bello. That's the official name of the whole trail. Bello, if everybody calls it Bello. In the planning grant, will there be provisions for potential rescues? Uh, the money wouldn't be used for the rescues, but it could be used to study what resources might be needed to conduct rescues. We would need to have the resources here. And we do have some in place, but we would need to have the resources to do a rescue up there if we needed to, because it's up on the hill. Um, the spurs will be coming down to the town. So you're involving, do you have any idea how much percentage of private land you'll be dealing with? And how would you get the permissions for that? Would it be like vast every year? Yeah, generally a 10-year agreement, you know, just lots of paperwork, but you know, it depends on, yeah, it depends on the land owner and their wishes, if they're in land. So, you know, it'd be respectful of that. Most of it is public, but yeah, VIMBA, the Mount Mount Lake Association, has a pretty, um, pretty well-betted 10-year landowner agreement that they've been using. It's been pretty effective up in the kingdom and northeast kingdom. What do you anticipate the date of completion, like five years out? Good question. We've been asked that a couple of times. Yeah, there's a pretty ambitious project. You just imagine someone say, hey, we want to build a long trail, you know, I don't know if they do that. And what's involved in the building of the trail, um, we're talking about, uh, a 10-foot swamp? No, no, no. Two to three years. So, yeah, if you look at that in the picture, yeah, there's some pictures. Yeah. But the trees didn't come back a little bit, too. Yeah, uh, yeah, yes, sometimes. They made $5 before. Would you, uh, uh, you have a contractor working with Rasta right now, correct? So, you would just continue to hire your own contractors? Yeah, it depends. It depends on, um, the area, you know, generally the Forest Service, we hire for the Ranger Station. The Forest Service, uh, requires all trails to be built to the International Mountain Bike Association Standard, which is a pretty well-vetted, you know, sustainable way of building trails. Um, but, you know, not every trail should be like that necessarily.  So there's kind of the same concept with mountain biking. So we're kind of shooting for the middle of the ground and for me, uh, trails. It's great that you're using mountain biking and Forest Service and same paragraph. Yeah. It's that in the film. And, uh, your organization will be so organized that it'll even carry its own insurance? Yeah, so, uh, Vermont Bike Association does have insurance that covers all of its chapters. Perfect. And Vermont Hust Association has its own insurance around Hust. Right. Um, so it's been pretty well-vetted, you know. And I would say that the, uh, Vermont Land Order Protection, um, that law that was passed has been really dry and true. It's been great. To protect the private land orders. If you have a trail on your property, um, you're not liable as long as you don't charge. And that's one thing we would not charge for any trail use. It's free, open to public. Okay. That's the idea. Not like Kingdom Trails. Not like Kingdom Trails. And that's going to be a challenge to, to fund the trail. Um, but I think most of us feel strongly that it should be free, um, open to everybody who's, um, so. Should we talk a little bit about the, the Wayne, just that kind of example in Bailey? Sure. Yeah. Go ahead and briefly talk about that. Yeah, just to kind of draw a parallel to kind of imagine it. So you asked about how long it might take to build the whole thing. We're talking a little over 80 miles of single track. And in Ohio and Wayne National Forest, um, there is a new trail being, uh, I think they're going to be breaking ground there this year on it. It's called the Bailey's Trail. And it's going to be 88 miles of new single track mountain bike multi-use, uh, trail that runs through, um, through that town or through eight towns, actually. And so the, the Forest Service worked with some other kind of nonprofit groups similar to what's going on here. And, um, they were able to conduct through a couple of other grants, uh, a similar economic impact assessment and study, uh, to determine what it could mean for, for that area. And as a result, they were able to, um, work with a private for-profit, um, investment called Impact Investment Company, um, to, to fund the entire project, which is going to be about 5.5 million dollars. Um, so it's our hope, um, that this, this grant, if we were to, if we were to go down that road, this grant could lead to significant, um, investment in the overall project. Um, and so that's kind of why we, we need, like, the seed money to see, like, you know, how's it going to look. And, and then that becomes more attractive. Um, to folks who might want to help us build that. Can we turn it into a thumbs up? Kind of, yeah. I'm just curious if you have, uh, mountain bikers develop the way to prevent group-like trails from being formed. Because that's a huge problem I know where there's mountain biking. Right. I know things that revolve since, you know, a lot of that stuff started when I get the Kingdom trails, but... I can tell you, are you day in? Yeah, so I think I've heard everything you said. Um, like trails, how do we, what, pass them? Um, the legal trail that we should take? Yeah. Yeah, so, basically, uh, from mountain biking to mountain biking association that's proven, um, when you have local chapter representation, um, you're less likely to see that. Um, you know, people take ownership of the trails that are, you know, legal, um, you know, that is, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say every trail, the legal trail will be prevented, but it definitely has shown, um, the less of an issue when you have organized trail recreation opportunities or something not there offered, that's, that's sometimes why that thing happened. Um, and the same thing with backcountry skiing, you know, when we have, um, what Brandy Gap was a great example, um, we provide, um, legal backcountry areas, managed responsibly, working with land partners, um, you receive less, uh, do legal cutting, snipping. Um, does it prevent it? No. But we provide a good example of what we're trying to do. Um, I'm just wondering if, um, when you, have you decided that you're definitely applying for this training grant and you're still going to have to do it? Have we decided what we're going to apply for? Have you decided, it sounds like... Yeah, well, what we're here really essentially is to ask the town, um, the idea was that the town would be applying for this grant, um, with, um, co-sponsor or support from Hancock and Granville. So if the Rochester community is behind this idea, this concept, um, I would follow up with two rivers and then we would go, um, reach out to Hancock and Granville, which I met with a few individuals, not the town representative. Um, there seemed to be some interest in that, so that the Rochester would lead the shift, if you will, um, in the grant application. And one thing we want to make sure that is the town is not planning to apply for another planning grant of any sort. Um, you know, we want to compete with that. If that is the case, then we can come back later. Um, but, you know, I just wanted to sleep clear on that. Yeah. Yeah, so we would work with, with the town to, you know, make sure the grant, uh, whatever was filled out properly, work with Hancock and Granville as well. Two rivers would do most of the heavy lifting, you know, so we would work with them. And then obviously come back with a town, have to have a public hearing about it. It's a very, um, transparent process. So it's not like we go and apply for, you know, we start filling out the application, you'll see us again. We'll give another presentation, probably. Um, two rivers would be with us helping work with the town. So your, your ask here is, is support from the town to, so at this point I should probably sit over there because I own a bike shop and it'd be possible to come to a convention. So I'll ask you two guys. How about horses on these trails? How about horses? Um, yeah. I wish. There was something to say. This is part of a safety issue. Join Ask About Horses use in the trail as well. Favorite or against it? I'm a favorite, but I can say that as a person as you get as a representative of the town because I don't want to be doing things bad for that. Yeah. I'm totally a favorite. I think it would be, uh, I just want to answer Joanne's question. She asked about horses use in the trail and we work with the board of service and I have actually, we're a port back riding and all that. So I actually asked the same question, but it's more of a safety concern. You know, you get my own bike coming around the corner. There's not much of a line of sight in the woods. So generally the forest service, you know, most of the trail would be on forest service. They'd like to keep the two uses separate from each other for safety concerns. So. Thank you. All right. That's okay. I'm good. I mean, um, I think you should continue. And I think the town will support you through this first step. Um, and then I would invite you to come back and keep us well informed of how we progress. Of course. And, um, I would do that.  I think it's good for all of the state and law. Make a motion for, let it pursue people. I'll make a motion right now to, uh, pursue this project and, uh, you see what, as long as we're informed all the time about what's going on. Second. All in favor. Aye. You're good. Good. Thank you guys. Thanks. Thank you. Sure. Yeah. Do you have some? Email? Email that? I got that. Yeah yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, cm1 here. All this talk about trails segues right into sidewalks. Bruce, do you want to? Yeah. Did you know a couple of years ago when the library came to their front entrance, the crosswalk from the park side to the library side was moved to the south? So it's directly across from Pierce Hall. In a short section, maybe 15 feet or so of sidewalk was installed in front of Pierce Hall. But I've noticed over the last year that eight times out of 10, when the library is open, someone is parking on the sidewalk, not recognizing that it is a sidewalk. And I'm wondering if something can be done to let people know that that is not a parking spot, that is a sidewalk. Either through a sign, or maybe you need a curb right there to delineate that section.  But you can't do that when there's a car parked there now. The last two years when they've been painting the crosswalks, they paint the park side no parking for the 10, 12 feet, whatever it is on each side. But they've never painted the Pierce Hall side. And I've asked them for the last two years to please put that crosshatching no parking there. And they just say it's not in the plans. I have called to the Rochester town garage or the State Highway, the State Highway people with no response. I believe Judy Lee Reederer has also called them to ask that they do that. Because when people park there, the people from Pierce Hall that are coming to the library across the crosswalk with their walkers are then out in the middle of Route 100 to try to get by the cars that are parked there in the crosswalk area. Well, that would definitely help to paint it. But it sounds like Irving would be the most effective way of keeping people off the sidewalk on the 100 side of Park House, which is also broken down dramatically, probably a lot of it for people driving on that. So we have a lot of sidewalk work that needs to be done in town. And it's important to gather these little bits and pieces of details to fold into that. But how quickly we can put a curve in there? I don't know.  And I don't think that that's the way that we're going to be able to do it. I think we're going to need to attack piece by piece and maybe some bigger chunks with some grant money. But this would definitely be a hot spot for safety purposes. Nancy, did you have something to say? Couldn't you talk to the state about just having those hash marks put on that way? We definitely do that. That's at least what alert people that. Talk to them before they do their painting bench. I mean, that's the easiest and low-handed group should definitely do that. But I think that the curving is the real solution. And that also may help in terms of how it's going to complicate it. Now and then we use the loader to go and clear stuff over there. And it's not that much. Sidewalk. The sidewalk is. When they do the sidewalks, they do the traffic. Yeah. Before we dig into any more media subjects, I want to present the minutes from the meeting of April 23rd, which I'd like to approve, because typed up is all in favor. Hi. Hi. Those have got the amendments.  I got a list. I don't understand that, so if you can hear me. Just a summary of what's happening with the wastewater project, and I'll just do sort of the administrative side of it, and Terry can fill you in on the more technical stuff. Let's see. So HEPER excavating is set to start. The contractor is set to start work on June 2nd. And he's going to be starting at the pump station at site one first to get things underway. The expectation is the work is going to take somewhere between 1690 days. Most of it will probably be done in 60 days. And the required completion date, I think it's September 30th. I forget. September 30th? No, September 1st. The 1st. All right, I couldn't remember that. So we've got a lot of work to do in a relatively short period of time. He's going to be bringing a construction trailer on site. It's going to be set up on site three. And so there was some discussion at the pre-construction meeting that we had last week with Du Bois and King and the state about there's still going to be a couple of weeks of school happening at the elementary school after work has started. So Terry is going to be talking to the school district or has been talking to them about making sure, oh, that's the permit right away, sorry, but to make sure there's some kind of fencing, no fencing, or some other barrier so that if the, say, the kindergartners are going out for their activities in the woods down there that they don't get into the construction area at all. It's a clear kind of bright line that they stay away from. Terry is going to be talking to the school district about adding a permit right away across the school, what's now a school property once it gets transferred to the district because right now obviously you don't need to evaluate because it's on town land when it does get transferred, you have to make sure the town contains the right to cross that area to be able to get to site three. There's going to be two meetings a month taking place during the construction period. One is going to be a site inspection wherever they happen to be working and the other one's going to be more of a job during their day's meeting which will probably take place here in the town office. And there was discussion also about seeing if we can obtain a backup access easement across the rail toll property just in case there's any complications or issues that arise. I did talk to him and he was going to do that. I didn't get anything in writing about it, I at least tracked it for, I think that's the contractor for him. Is that part of his property in a land trust or something? Or he sold his development rights? I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean we want to try to get to what we're talking about. I don't think about that, but I can look that up. It's in the footpoint now. Yeah, I mean it's not talking about building anything, it's talking about the access. You know, we went around as that. So there is, if there is an actual easement, conservation easement on it, he would have to get permission from the easement holder to address Vermont Land Trust to grant the right of way. So let's make sure we have that pie dotted. Yeah. Onto the Village Center designation. I don't know if I've heard from you. June 11th for a meeting starting at 4.45, is that good? It's on Monday before a select board meeting where there'll be a walk about the district with Richard Amor, who is from the Community Development Agency that oversees the Village designation process. It's step one that we're required to do when we're reapplying for a new designation. So that would be an hour to an hour and a half. We'll just walk sort of the boundaries, see if any people on the comments, questions, whatever. Excuse me, John, I didn't get the date. It's a Monday, I'm sorry. And if you have suggestions for a couple of business owners in the Village you might want to have along. Let me know so I can include them in the invitation list. I don't think Richard's looking for a great big crowd, but maybe a handful of people as the way he described it. People who have a direct interest in how the whole designation's made for so. And then afterwards, you can put it first on the agenda for June 11th, you have a select board meeting and he'll do a 20 to 30 minute presentation, which I think just covers the whole process of how you apply for Village designation, which some of you here already know quite a bit about but I'm sure it's changed and it's probably more complicated than it was last time before. So, next, let's see. You, some of you have seen already, Brant and A, Department of Environmental Conservation, we have a current Brant and A branch to do work on. Let's see, that one is on, I've forgotten already. The current one is on Townline Road, right? Yes, and that needs to be finished by June 30th. So I just wanted to find out how that was going in advance of June 30th, we have to have information on all the expenses, what are, you know, that we've got at least $2,000 in match and then have me to CEDO come up to take a look at things. So can you just give me an idea of where you are in that? And what's, what part is being bid is it the ditch, the ditching? Oh, okay. Well, it's on ditching, two culverts. Two culverts, right? And do you have to anticipate the current date for that? Whenever they want to, as long as they can have it. So all the work will be done by a contractor. And so then there's a question of, they plan to do around two, the Brant and A, similar same criteria as before on sections of roads in town that are hydrologically connected and it's work that would be required under, or it will be required under the new permit. So, and that has sort of a short timeframe for pulling together as well. They would like us to return a signed letter by June 22nd saying that we're interested in being considered. Thank you. So we have, just for a little background, 25 to 30 miles of hydrologically connected roads. So that qualifies us for a grant of $11,300 next round, just a little bit less than what we got. This round we got a $12,000 grant. They base it on the mileage, both mileage. And there is a 20% town match required of the 2825 as we asked for all $11,300, which means we could do a project of somewhere of a $14,000. And the match can be in contact or cash. So if you want to think about it, you can start paperwork and do it. You have no choice to do this. I also have maps of where the target places in the town are that need to be worked on, to combine them with the law. If anybody wants my name, that 10 copies. I'm sure a little lots of y'all could send me a neighborhood. There's so many lots of opportunities to do things all over town. So you want to pick things that are going to be the highest priority for what are probably the first ones that are also coming down to the town. So you might say, well, there's lots of places on the back of the road where it could be projects done, but that's maybe not a good priority. Yeah, I think definitely it's better to say it all over. No, but yeah, it doesn't go very far as it's going from the town. No, no, but they're not necessarily big, they're not your projects. If it's a major full screen culvert or something like that. Right, and we have a total of 2036 culverts. We have them until 2036 to complete. Oh yeah, because there's lots of things to be done, obviously. So this is more removing berms, greater berms or replacing not screen culverts necessarily because those are being inexpensive, but just run off, you know, as opposed to screens. There's plenty of things to be done as well. All grades of expense and complications. So these are the more easier ones. So I don't know, maybe you can think about it and maybe by the next meeting, the next meeting to have an idea. Of which project? Yeah, where if you want to zero in. I assume you'll be involved also and you want to come out. You know, take a look at places with Dan and sort of confer on what would make a good project that you could rely on and get it done.  That is a hot target. Pick a road. Pick a road, yeah, pick a road. $40,000 is what I'm asking. Well, on to the Class 2 roadway grant. Dan, I know you gave me some information on the work through time that was put in, but I had a few other questions I could ask you. So this was on North Hollow Road. Was the entire 4.2 miles gravel? You still have a lot to do right now. And the four and a half miles of ditching work still to be done also. Do you have an idea of, do you have a timeframe for that? You've got longer on this one. The grant expires in the end of December of 2019. So is that? So you're hoping to do that this summer as well? Before Thursday of all. You've noticed down at the park and ride there was some planting done by the Weifert Partnership and a BYCC crew. And what they ask all of the places, landowners where they do planting is to sign a simple landowner agreement. Which just states that you agree to maintain trees as best you can. You'll be guaranteed that they'll all survive, but it does talk about sort of refraining from doing too much mowing. In this case, I talked to Greg Russ about well, there's going to be some mowing, obviously we have to do there. And he said it's fine, you don't have to sort of take that literally. Don't weed with the trees. Right, just keep the trees. The trees are mostly shrubs really, dog boards and lower grove and things. So we really need to have a conversation with our mowing contractor. Right, maybe put out some stakes for the first couple of years so it's more clear where they should, you know. There's plenty of space between the end of the sort of the paved area and where the planting started. So it would be like, it's not like a real tight space where it's not going to be obvious where the plants are. And I don't know if you saw this dot leaks. Department of Environmental Conservation, Straking Water and Groundwater Protection Division is offering free leak detention surveys. Have you seen this? I got it in an email. You really don't need it. Okay, it was just a question about whether you thought it was the least one or not, but he told me the last time we had him, he didn't have at least 15,000 gallons a day or more. Okay. It's not a problem, but he's not gonna be able to find it. Okay, just so you know about it. Yeah, we got it, nothing to do with it, nothing to do with it. And then last, this was a memo from two rivers. They are looking for a Rochester member to join the Transportation Advisory Committee of two rivers. I guess we maybe had one, someone at one time but we don't now, basically as a committee that guides the transportation priorities within the two rivers area, which roads get attention or that kind of thing. So I don't know if you've been to many candidates. I wasn't much interested in doing that. Kind of already by default on their transportation committee by how much we go to them for help. They want something more formal than that. Yeah, it's someone who will be looking at things from a region wide perspective, as opposed to just, it would be a town representative, but you know. And not many Jim. Yes, Jim. Well, thank you. Welcome. Well, can I leave this with you if you think of anyone? I don't think it's the end of the world if you don't have anyone on the committee, but from time to time, it might be useful now. So we'll speak up. Yeah, Rochester's life, though, is all I have. Thank you, Ola. I've got a question. Where does the grant on the stormwater disposal for the village stand? That is in process. They are due, I think they've done all their field work and they're due to make a presentation to the town on their preliminary findings sometime in August during the day. Yeah. And the boy in gang doing that? No, that's a, what's the name of the watershed? Oh, God. I can't remember the name of it now. It's a consulting firm, Watershed Consulting Associates. That's what it is. WCA, they're based in Waitsfield, I believe. It's not been running. Yes, oh yeah. They've been working for the last number of months while you've been, it's been running. Thank you. The town line ditching. There's two town, or two driveway culverts up there that are gonna have to be changed. The other one, I don't know what we're gonna do. One of them is a broken round. And there's one on both sides of it. The other one there has never been any culbers that I know of. Excuse me, did you say town line road? Yes. Okay, fine. Okay. All right, do you want to get me the information on the contact then? Yeah, yeah. Mike's pitch ready for gravel. The Florence crush stones. Crusher burnt up. It burned up? Three weeks ago. Hopefully they're getting a portable one in. Hopefully it'll be done by the end of this week so they can start hauling gravel to us. They aren't sure yet. They have no idea when. What's the question is that? Florence. Florence crush stones, yeah. So they don't know when the root of plant will be back up and going, but hopefully they'll have one going. We'll speak about the Grady Brookstreet. So the last time we put something like recently a couple of weeks ago. There's always this like line of gravel that's pushed aside. And it's pretty tall. It's a couple of feet, you know. So when I come down from Chiquililane I have to stay on the left side of the road like when I drove. When the grating is happening. Yeah. Back and grating. Yeah, it was just the whole line of. That's the big. But how do I, I cannot cross, I cannot drive over it to get to the right side without like, you know. I tried once and like my car was just like hanging on it. Cause it's just too high. So I had to, the last time I drove to work I had to go all the way to the end of Brookstreet driving on the left side. Like hoping that nobody will be coming from the other direction. I guess if you're really nervous about it you could go the other way and take the long way. That's not. I mean it might be. But the only way that you can graze the road without helping people cross. My request would be that maybe from occasionally like from some, there would be like a break that I don't know if that can be done but I mean how, how else can I go over it that bump of gravel? Fast, fast. Oh, you got it on the car then? I can leave a berm of gravel on my road any time, any time. I'm ready. We are just talking about that one day Yeah, but that happened to me like when I had to go to war with you, that's like. Yeah, I encountered it as well. Yeah. Just go slow. That's wrong, mate. So we have to be done that. I'm not coming. You might have to wait until he's done. Okay, so just. Go on the truck, my man. If you want to stay on the right side of the road. You'll look pretty soon there'll be mountain bike trails. There you go, you can ride your bike. The roads get graded. Well, yeah, they're actually for small They all are. blessings. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They do every year. Yeah, eventually.  I don't worry about cars in that situation. Yeah. We all have. We all. I don't know. I'm just, I was just asking, I like, I don't know how this works. You move on back there. So that's about it now for that. Before we talk about the library D, which might be longer, I'll just do a quick check in with Terry on the utilities or anything. We kind of covered a lot of that with Jones updates. Is there anything you want to add? I met with the principal and the school board on the, they're actually going to probably put up no offense, maybe next week and put the trailer in. I told them they really had to cut the kids off and going down altogether. Just a safety issue. It's too close. So what's going on? And they didn't have any problem with it. You know, I haven't seen Bill yet, but they were going to try waiting. Most of it's not going to happen till mostly schools out. The only conflict I'm going to have is a Suzuki week. That might be a week. They might want to use that metal. Well, but the school yard is really busy during that week.  So they're hoping just when they, they're going to set the tanks first. They've decided. And so that won't be, you know, they're going to move a crane in there. The tanks come that one day. And it's not like they're going to be in and out 100 times. And I've talked to Mike and they're going to, they're going to stockpile all their sand down there in the pit. So when they dig it all out, I got an idea. Either they'll dig it out. I'm assuming maybe dig it out and bring something back or they'll dig it all out and just dump it in there with leveled off with those right. No idea. But that sounds like most of that's going to be done after school's out. So on the principle then she didn't have any problems. She said, if you know, if we have something needs to get moved big stops there and she'd be glad to move it. Said it's got to be done. And that's the way it is. So, other than that, I don't see as being a. I think they're pretty capable. I think they're super pretty. Yeah, we're just. It'll be that one week. So I want to like to think I was kind of too bad at the same week they take off. He says he takes off the week before. It's the next week, but me. All right, so let's go on to. You want to reopen the conversation about the library. I think that's why you built this here. Before I do, I would like to ask Kelly to be, especially as a new member, to be more considerate about citizens' needs. If I raise an issue, please don't tell me that this is just one day. It was concerning to me. So I was like. Well, I just had an opportunity for myself. And if you were talking about a long period of time or just in one day, yeah. Just, just, just, just saying. Okay, the library. So this is like an ongoing saga, as you will know enough. But in the past, the Selected Board had agreed to move the deed from the library trustees onto the town. I don't believe we agreed to do that. We agreed to look into it and research. Well, do you understand? Yeah.  We have agreed to make that transparent. Okay, well. So keep clear. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. The Select Board was in favor. Our understanding was that the Select Board was in favor of moving the deed. Larish Trouse. Again, I think you're putting words in the Select Board's mouth. We were in favor of researching it. That was as far as we got is to look into it. I stayed corrected. I stayed corrected. It was our understanding was that we, Larish Trouse was in favor of moving the deed. Okay. After that recent play, we revisited the issue. Yes, it was, you know, and we had talked to, we invited Jim to come to one of our trustees, trustee meetings and you came and you told us that the town attorney was not in favor of doing that. And his reason was that he would not be, well his question was like, why would the trustees want to do it in the first place? He doesn't say any. And he agreed, exactly. But our reason is, the trustees' reason is that since the library is owned by the town, why wouldn't the building be owned as, I mean, the library is like a gem, maybe you can add, like I'm sorry, I'm not feeling well today, so I'm like, my brain is not working correctly, but y'all, it's what you're trying to say that the current deed says gives ownership to the trustees who are five elected town officials, ipso facto, it is the town. And just for the clarity of the ownership, because it keeps getting raised from time to time about who, that it's, if the library building isn't owned by the town, then it's not a town responsibility. I think we've proven that it is a town responsibility over and over again by the fact that every year in the budget we allocate a certain amount of money for it, the town voted to do quite a large bond to do a massive renovation of it. The issue is to clarify that is in the deed that originally gave the building to the trustees. As you guys know, you've heard this many times and the deeds was pretty clearly specified that if the ownership changes, that it would, there's the first right of refusal by any descendant of the family that gave it to the trustees. And our legal opinion was pointed out that fully 50% of the libraries in the state of Vermont are held this way and the other half are held by the town. So it's not an unusual situation, but of a bigger concern was that why put it in any jeopardy, why put the town into any possibility of having to go to legal action to protect that asset if we don't have to? If there's no real benefit to changing it on paper, there's no tangible benefit to the town to change that. But we would be putting the town in a potential liability if someone somewhere decides that, boy, you know, I'm a descendant of that family and I can sue the town because I should have been consulted and the local descendants of that family are fine with it and not interested in taking the building back, but they don't know how far that reaches. And in this day of the internet, when people can search this small minutia from their desktop, you don't know who is gonna pop up and then the lawyer's opinion is like, why go through the hassle and expense to put the building at risk when it's perfectly stable and fine as it is? So that was the legal response that we paid for and got in evaluating that. I mean, there was years when Robert was on the board and he was presenting this to lawyers and they failed to get back to him, maybe because it was such a confusing situation and they didn't want to do it. We finally found a lawyer who was willing to dig into it and he was pretty clear that that was his opinion. So that's basically what I presented at the meeting at the library board six months ago. You also said that the attorney would get an actual valid attorney in the house and he never happens to kind of feel like there has been no communication, at least some closure and it would be nice for the attorney to, since our attorney that we've been working with has done all the groundwork and even prepared a deed, but he's never heard from the town attorney which you had indicated that he might at least contact our attorney. So that would be, yeah, it would be nice. I'm not sure for what reason if the advice that we've got is that it's kind of a waste of support. But Jim, to get on it? Yeah, I mean, the advice that was given was to leave it alone and stop costing money. Lawyers talking to lawyers is gonna cost the town money two different ways, leave it alone. So that's basically what we didn't feel like we were in position where we were trying to work out an agreement here. It was pretty clear we had the information and I thought I'd present to that pretty clearly. You don't feel that was kind of the final. Marvin, do you know is there any reason that this building is one of the town more at risk than any other town building? And it's so quiet. The reason is because of the original deed. The language in the original deed puts it out there that if the ownership should ever change that the first right of refusal goes to the family or descendant thereof. That's what makes it different than any other town building at the town. And it's just because of the legal language in the original deed. And that's what it based on. You have seen the opinions of former attorneys that have researched this, right? I've seen some and I've seen the one of the attorney that the town hired to look at both. Yeah, I think he's seen that, but I can't figure it to that. Yeah, it's probably the same document you've seen before. And how it defined it from the vehicle property to the transfer. That was also deeded, right, to the school property. I'm not sure, like I'm just asking. I don't think it had that stipulation clause. Yeah, it didn't have that clause that it would revert to the original. You can keep that. I have not seen it, but I would suggest that maybe Mr. Barlow had to answer a letter that he got from the library's attorney. It is not professional ethics, not to respond. And he never responded to the library's attorney. Well, I suppose he did. He's still your attorney. Yes, he didn't, we didn't ask him to respond. He basically gave us his opinion on, we presented the information, we presented him with the original deed and we presented him with the proposed other deed. And we asked for his opinion of the two. So it was never, we were never entering into a negotiation with the attorney that created that second deed. That was presented to us as information. Well, but he asked you for guidance and how to respond to the library's trustee's attorney. And what was your guidance? It's not our guidance was we accepted his opinion. I mean, are you, so you're, we can spend more money to have him write a letter that says thanks, but no thanks, but is that, is that, I didn't know if that's necessary. I mean, it's- This has been researched by three attorneys before Mr. Barlow. Okay, maybe he was to get somebody on his team then too. Because it's been researched, there's no reason why they can't be denied. No, I have not seen the letter. No. And I think there's a point that big question is why to what, for what purpose? What is the purpose? What is the benefit? What is the purpose? Why, why, why go through all this? The trustees are running a library. Right. And they're not intending to manage a building. And they've done it for a long time and so forth. And that's about the size of it. And they can see deficiencies that need to be done. The windows is a given. But it's still gonna be maintained. Right. And so that's the only thing that's to believe in this deed. Right, but it's still, it's being maintained. I mean, it's always a struggle to maintain. We skipped fixing that leaky chimney to paint part of the library two years ago. It's not like it's not happening. There is, you know, the library has been being maintained, the issue is- The light out as well. Oh, the light out too, yeah, but. They need a bigger ladder to get the flies out of the chimney. I just don't see the value in prolonging the conversation over something where there's no very, there's no tangible benefit to the town to spend the money to do this because it's a stable situation as it is. It is Rochester's public library. And that is a tangible reason to want it to be Rochester's public library. I think it's a good term. How many other libraries throughout the state were set up the same way? We set up about 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50, 50. Yeah, it's not an unusual situation. It's a very common situation in how it's held. And it is the town library. It's, you know, it's not really, it doesn't make sense to put it in jeopardy. It's as unlikely as that is to be why I spend money to put it in jeopardy that someone in the future might have to defend a lawsuit against. I'm not sure what you're putting in jeopardy, but. The ownership of the building has stipulated by the original deed. It's in writing. And it's, I don't know what else to say about that. Isn't it interesting that other attorneys have founded a defroding? A lot of attorneys are really good at making work for themselves. Well, maybe there's other attorneys out there. Yeah, but anyway, do you have anything else to say about that?  Do you have any insight into this? The only afterthought I had that I'm not an attorney, but if there had been, if we can put a public notice in 50 newspapers across the United States for 30 days to say, if you are an heir of Leslie and Chester Pierce, can you step forward if you want to lay claim to the library building or forever hold your peace? Is that a factor? I would think that you could ask your attorney if that would put that clause to rest. Sounds like that would cost a lot of money. But it is still at risk. In the essence of the thing is, what's the benefit? It doesn't change anything. So why do it? That was, you know, he says right now, it's like why would you want to do this? Marvin, I have a question for you. Do you believe that the transfer of this deed will increase the funding for the maintenance of this building in some way? Is that what your concern is? Do you like the leave part? I don't think it's the funding, it's the responsibility of the trustees that we're talking about. So the deed is giving the building to the trustees. What responsibility do they have now on that building? The trustees have the responsibility. Have the responsibility. And the town to contain the bills. If they ask for money to do the thing they bring to our attention, things that need to happen, they're occupying the building. It makes sense for them to be in touch with what needs to happen there and to communicate that to the town. I don't see where the problem is for them to do that. I think we're occupying the building. I don't think they are. I think it's a public that is occupying that building. The trustees is managing the library day-to-day business. On our behalf. It's really no different than the town garage or the fire house, when something needs to be done with it or this building, Joanne knows more about where the leak is or anything like that. If it's town garage, we're gonna know more than anyone else. But you don't know. You don't know. But the reason they aren't taking the deed over is because if somebody else in the Pierce family says it's not in the, they got the right to get the building now. They have the right to deed it, yeah. They have the right to the ownership of it. Right, right. That's right. Well, I take that chance. I'll put them out of it. Stope the library, then they can... They can move in and live in it. They can live in it, if that's what they want to do. That's right. Right, so I take that chance. They can have another and they'll put it out. Who is using it. And the state is recognizing it as a Rochester public library. Same as the other 50% that are that way in the state's mom. Yeah, oh, I know. A little bit of a difference between a public library and a municipal library. I'd have to do some research on that, but I did get a whole education on that. But I'm not enough to speak on it, but municipal is another pivotal word there on public versus municipal. Actually, the terminology should be municipal versus incorporated. Incorporated, thank you, thank you. They're both public libraries. Okay. But it's just owns library, the town versus... Our library is incorporated. No, our library is municipal. It has never been incorporated. What would this board do? And would the people of Rochester do? If all of the library trustees decided to resign their elected positions tonight, the door would be locked, and I don't know who would have the key, but probably there's one here, is there? Is there a key here? I'm not sure there probably is, yeah. So the town would have a key to it, and then what? That we would find some new trustees. That's happened before. You saw the point? That's happened before, Nancy? That's happened several times. Where if not all of them, most of them have resigned, and not those artists that we've outpassed. Yeah. So it's... We would appoint trustees. It all boils down to why take the chance of spending money to put it in a less stable situation of ownership. You're presenting it as it will be more stable if it's owned by the town, but we'd be moving contrary to what the original deed says. So it just doesn't make sense to do that. This is unreasonably as it would be to happen. It's for no real benefit, why incur the risk? There's what the thought is, at least my thought. The taxpayers, the Rochesters, they're already paying the bills. Yes, they are. Yes. And so forth. And the taxpayers are also electing the trustees. Right. The trustees would like to continue running the library, but don't care about managing the building other than they're occupying it as the firemen occupy the firehouse. We take care of the firehouse, so. And they work at it. Wouldn't the trustees be the best ones available to actually indicate issues with the building and report those to the board? Isn't it on the job? Right. They're more intimate with it, so I'm thinking. They're more intimate with the building than we are. That puts, you know, that would put more responsibility, of course, on the board. Right. We have to look at respectability more often, but. I don't see that their job would change very much at all. What would be different if this is just a shuffling of paper, how would it be different as a trustee of the library? You're not liable for it. Everything is covered under town insurance. Is there any specific thing that you feel would be different as a trustee? If the town owned the building versus the trustees, not you as an individual, but the office of the trustees, what would change for you in the right? I would just need to, I'm not sure. I'm sorry. And the best thing, it's so. Maybe we should just ask the trustees to continue being willing to work well with a slight more than they have in the past. The building continues to be improved over what it has been. And I understand that the offerings, we continue to have, you know, new offerings. And it's, I think it's a pretty successful library. And the insurance has no, the insurance companies have no problem with that? No. You know, the town is just covered in some kind of. Anyway, I'd like to put this to rest for now unless there's something else to come up about it. Thank you for your time and interest in it. Let's talk about reinstating the wait limit on a West Hill Bridge, which basically during the construction that was knocked down, not because of the bridge, but because of the condition of the road above the bridge. And when the state kind of re-signed it, they never changed it. So what step do we need to do to do that? We just adopt that tonight at the meeting? Well, the way I understand it is that it was a select board decision. Yeah. And then we notified AOT and the DMV that's the status of it. There's a road issue, not a bridge issue. There was a road issue. There was a road issue. That was had nothing to do with the bridge, but as far as I can tell, it's just a simple matter of us making a motion to revert that bridge to the road back to 16. The road itself, the wait limit is 24,000? The town road is 24,000, sorry? Well, the bridge is 16, so it doesn't. I know, I know. My point is, I went to a workshop a couple of weeks ago, so it's kind of like a question of how dangerous. That if, hopefully not, if the bridge limit is different from what the road limit is, and the road limit, as I understand it, is by default 24,000, unless you get something else. You just need to sign, you know, on each side that the bridge limit is different from what the road is. So you say it's 16,000 pounds. You just have to have signs on four hands. That's for not a dead-end road, though. This is a dead-end road, so it doesn't make any difference. So, I mean, you can't access it from any other point, so. But the road itself is 24,000, right? But the bridge is 50 yards off the road, over 73. So you can't get past the bridge without 16,000 pounds, anyway. But the road was put down to 10,000, because of the slope. The sign is currently up, it's often mistaken for a bridge weight limit sign, because it doesn't matter, it doesn't really matter, but that sign would come out, and a bridge weight sign would go back in. This is a road weight sign, yeah. That's what I was saying. The state, when they changed those, when they did it to 73, they put all the signs on 73. So they got put, because it's still on record that it's a 10,000-pound road. And I believe you told me that you had a 16,000-pound sign that you could put in. Right. But we had to put it in any time we had done it, but you need to get a hold of the state and... Well, we just have to... It wasn't their decision. We just have to notify them. Right, that's what I'm saying. You have to, A03, have to decide to notify those guys. I'd move to make that change in the sign. I would second that. Longfader? Aye. Aye. And we'll notify the state. Right, I may ask Joan to help in that area. We may just want to notify AOT properly that we're converting it back to 16,000, OK? And I would say that you can probably change that sign immediately. I see you have one more call. Sorry, I forgot, like I said, my friends are working well today. I was asked by the last trustee meeting to ask the select board please to authorize the repair inspection of the oil tank by CV oil, and that had been discussed before. Also, the chimney repair, like to have an estimate down and repair the chimney, basically, because of the previous leak that we had upstairs. Yeah. OK, so those two things, please. And just like the email, if you could please also let us know about the percentage of how the library is being, you know, the percentage is like how much money goes into the upkeep of the library. So we paid like 10,000 a year on the upgrade for that grant that was done. Not the reserve fund, but it's like the percentage of the building fund. I don't think there's a set percentage. I think it's really more of a crisis determined. We don't have a set percentage of the town building fund. It's not enough. It's not enough. So it's basically. But it's like the trustee's were wanting some clarification from the select board of what percentage you feel the town contributes to the library operating budget. Yeah, it seems like it should be a relatively simple division of the total budget and the town's contribution. But through the winter, building and budget finance committee meetings, percentages up to 90% were mentioned of what members of the town budget finance committee and the select board felt that they were paying towards the library bills. So the trustees were looking for a clarification of what the select board felt that percentage was, if it's not a simple division. I don't think that's. I don't really remember that ever being discussed in that in those terms, because really, we have no control over how much money the library raises on its own. And so if you attach a percentage of it, it's all over the place. It's more of just how much we can get. So I don't think there is a percentage of the library budget that we have committed to give. For instance, for next year, it's 56% of our total budget. Is the $40,000 we're getting from the town represents 56% of our budget. And whether this select board felt that that was an accurate figure, they were just wanting some clarification on that. That's what it adds up to be. I guess that's what an accurate math is math. That's what I felt, but we're looking at. Yeah, I don't. Just talking about 90% of the library budget, I don't recollect that I was coming up. But just to clarify, we do have your permission to go ahead and contract for replacing the oil tank. Nobody does any work without the insurance papers. And you place them. Yeah, I thought you're asking to having them. To authorize the use of the Building Reserve Fund to do those two projects. I would like to get a good quote to figure out what we're talking about. We had submitted those figures back during the budget and finance process. The quote was $1,400 from CV Oil to replace the tank and put it on an even footing. And then an estimate of approximately $2,000 to do the chimney work.  Nancy, you remember? I believe we did not finalize anyone's requests for use of the Building Fund. And there was a lot of discussion about the needs for this particular building. I'm just saying we need to collaborate. I guess the one thing is the, well, all right, it's good that you bring this back to our attention and we don't want to discuss this, but we're not going to let you go out the door with the blank check right now to go and do that stuff. But it's good that you brought it to our attention. It seems the oil tank is probably high concern because at some point, CV Oil will refuse to fill it. Yeah, we're at that point, so we're already in our place period. Yeah, so yes, we'll definitely probably have to do that. So you'll give us an answer, right? Like whether one weekend contact CV Oil. Well, it can't be done until after July 1. Right, we're going to have to be after the end of this year into the next budget year. So, so yes, we will just to clarify that is the work cannot be done until July 1 or the bill will not be paid until July 1. So work could be done in June to be paid in July. Yes or no. Just getting pretty close to July. I mean, that's what the invoice date is. The invoice date is after the first of July. If you can, you know, have CV Oil drag your feet on the invoice in here. But it's, I mean, July 1st is still pretty far until meeting season. So if you could just, you know, get on their schedule and make sure that we're... Well, that's what I was concerned about is that you could get very busy this year. Yeah. All right. OK, do you need anything from us to move that forward? No, not to thank you. OK, so we'll wait to hear from you. We'll be right back, yeah. OK. Thank you. Sorry for the interruption. Thank you. Good night. Good night. All right, where were we? We're in West Hill. West Hill. We pretty much agreed that we're going to change that. Definitely go to today. So we're on to the next meeting date. They are in question because it falls on Memorial Day Monday. Memorial Day Monday. And I'm fine with the meeting. I'm fine with Memorial Day. So they're all welcome to. It's like 27 or 28. 28. 28. 28. All right. And then we have a park use application. Harlan? Harlan, can you just scratch on your head? We wind it up. We wind it up? Yeah, all right. One more, a couple of little things. A couple of little things. I didn't want to go. So the parents of the graduates would like to make an application to provide a lunch and reception and celebration of their accomplishments, not serving an alcoholic beverages and a celebration class of 2018 on the park. And I would move to give them permission to do that for a second day. All in favor? Hi. I was to mean it is on July 30, July 9th, because I didn't hear anything. The date of event is July 9th. Yeah. Yeah, it started July 9th. No, it was July 9th. July 9th. I know what I meant. I'm just in favor. I'm sorry. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. My pleasure. We already have literature. We already have literature. We also had this proposal from Spalding Press to hold us at the same price for the printing of the town reports if we commit to three years of doing that. And it's the same or two years rather. And I would help move that. We're going to that agreement then. I'll send it down there. All in favor? Hi. We'll do a good job and then we'll come through all we need. That's a lock-in, right? Yeah. It's OK. And I was wrong that we don't get these really big. Really big. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And while we have ARCA media bringing this information to the world, efficiency Vermont would like to make sure that all business owners have access to a free energy assessments at no cost and no strings attached. Of course, they will offer you nicely rated loans to perform the work if you should choose to do so. But contact efficiency Vermont if you're interested in getting some evaluation of your property. And that's free. That's free. Yeah, consultation. It's newest. That goes to Joan. And that was, Nancy, is that the answer? I think that the park, the bandstand electrical is on them. Yeah, all business. Yeah, all business. I see that. Louie is going to try to get with Jerry and go over that. He didn't have time. But we wanted to get it in before July 1. Yeah. So we'll talk to Louie about that. Hear that, Louie? Are you watching? It's a great list on top of Louie's time. Right. Louie the Lister. He said, I agree. And I think that's on Harlan. You have something else that you wanted to talk about. Are you going to have a public meeting for input on this trail system? Yeah, that was part of what they were talking about, I suppose. I mean, that's a select board. You're telling them to. Yeah, that was, I think they presented that as part of the. We're going to make sure that's on the record. Yeah. Yeah. And my other question is, what's new in Bingo? What's new in Bingo? I know our lawyers are doing their lawyer thing. So that's what I felt. The school property, too? The school property. I was told that they were going to meet with the students and explain the situation and ask them to recommend and have a vote and to give it to the town. And that's, I don't know what action is taking place. Yeah, that was Tony Gooby. Tony Gooby is working on that. Yeah. So that's. What's the recommendation? The recommendation is for them to relinquish it to the ownership of the town. That's what we would like to see happen. And that's what I think is where it's headed. To be kept for original purpose. Yeah. No, no, no. We're going to build low-income housing. And we're going to call it. You know, we're going to call it Harlan Acres, right? Walter Wells would like to do one after the last one. That's why I come to these meetings every Monday. We're going to call it Harlan Acres. Just saying. I have a very tricky issue that we can close with. There's a notification from Vermont, Leeds, the city and towns to remind everyone that takes care of property in town. Pesticide is any substance intended to prevent, destroy, repel, or mitigate a pest. It includes roundups, scots, weed and feed, preen, decon, and raid, for example. If a municipal employee or hired contractor is using this or a similar product, he or she is a non-commercial applicator. In Vermont, you must have a license, a Class A or a Class B pesticide license to spray the ground. So the cemetery should know that they should not be using any pesticides unless they do get that Class A or Class B license to do so. Or they can ask Dan to do it for them, because he is licensed. Not for long. I hate that. I hate that, my dear. Yeah, so we would also want our lawnmower people to know as well. I'm afraid that's our name. I'm not to reply. I'm not to reply. All right, so I guess we're just going to raise some bills. Thank you all for coming.