I'm Levi Skimadi. I'm from a company called OPAS that is working very hard and we are going to change the world. Personally, I'm a student at Machakus University. I'm doing tourism management and hospitality, but my passion is into technology and all that because we all know that technology is the future. I was brought up in Nairobi in the estates of Dandora and partially in Utawala. I went to school in Lenana school. I'm very proud to be a changerian. Now, so with my friends, we came up with the idea of trying to change the system whereby a lot of university students struggle a lot. Like basically, yes there is education and all that, but the access of those learning materials becomes hard. For example, it's the first year we went to the university. It's so enthusiastic about education, but it doesn't know what to do, where to go, where to get resources to read. So that is why we teamed up with my friends at OPAS to work so that we can change the system whereby a student can easily access education even while at home because you find at times that at times you are at home and you can't get the books from the student's library to go with them at home for the long holidays. That is why we came up with the app to change that trend whereby a student can read anytime, anywhere, any place. That is why we have Kampo and Kampo is a very good resource for learning. First of all, when I was in 1.1, you know there are books, there are PDF notes, but you cannot access them like the next following semester. For example, if you get a referral maybe or if you accidentally fail a test, you have to repeat the test. But let's say for example you had the papers in your phone, maybe your phone get lost, what will you do? The lecture is not there to send you the news again, it can't send you personally. The class rep is not there, he'll say that he deleted them, so what will you do? You are there stranded, you don't know what to get the resources from. And most of the time you find that teachers say it according to what they have given you. That's get hard because when you go to the library, yes you'll read, you'll access a lot of knowledge, but it's not what the teacher taught. So that the knowledge you have is not resourceful as per the moment during the exam. That is why we saw that you can use those past papers and past notes to store them there whereby students can access them anytime. My target audience is everyone who wants to learn from university, primary, high school, even the old because I believe education never ends. Because I know many people want to learn but they are limited, you cannot go to all universities. But with that we bring all the universities in one place and you can benchmark how these people are studying, how these are studying, how these are being taught that way. Kampo is all about learning, first of all. It is like a e-library, a e-learning platform whereby a student can access e-learning materials. Whereby university students which is very hard to get notes once they finish a semester. Most of the students when they finish the semester they delete the notes because they occupy the phone space. But with Kampo you can access the notes. The good thing about Kampo, the downloaded notes they don't get into the phone, they say on the app. That is why we encourage you to keep using the app because once you store them in the app they will not occupy the phone storage whereby you don't need to delete any notes after the semester. We are saving new space. The second thing for the primary students Kampo offers them the opportunity to access past papers, past KCP, past papers together with marking schemes. Whereby we have collected past KCC papers from 2000 up to 2010. Whereby it will help a lot of students to access the knowledge that they need to pass the exams. Also for the high schoolers we have past papers for KCC and also the revision past papers. Whereby we are working also to add more past papers. Whereby students can access them freely. All they need is just to download it and they can access all past papers there. For the university students we have the past papers and the PDF notes. Whereby the PDF notes is very hard to find. But we like the task whereby we are looking for them. Students have come, the help past teachers have come, lecturers are helping us with accessing the notes. Whereby we put them there and students can access them. So basically Kampo is helping everyone to access notes at a fee of only installation. For the primary school we have captured all the subjects. For the high school we have captured all the subjects. Also in the university we have captured all the units from different universities. And we are still adding more universities and colleges. So if you see a university is not there, a college is not there, you can contact us and we will add them. And we will come visit your campus and we are going to communicate with you, chat with you and learn more about your campus. The app is at Play Store. We are currently working to put it on iPhone, iOS and Homo for the Huawei users. So it is on Play Store and we have a website which is Kampo.co.ke where students can access every learning material. When you install the app, first you have to login with your email. Then after logging in you have all the access. You can download all the materials you need to learn. You can use it with your family, your friends that are learning. For example, let's say you have a brother who is in primary school, assistant in high school and you yourself are in campus. You can use Kampo to access all that knowledge. Whereby you can use it for your university learning, you can use it for your sister who is in high school or your brother and you can still use it in primary school. That is they will get all learning materials which will help them to succeed in life that will help them pass the exams successfully. The app is unique in a way that it offers university students with PDF notes which is very hard for other university students to access. Also, it gives the users a chance to download notes without getting to their phone which they are for free. Another thing they can read while offline, they don't need bundles to read. The former president Maikibaki introduced free education. At that time I was in class, I think 3 and I remember I was going to the fees were high and I got the opportunity to learn for free from class 4 up to 8 which changed my life and that is why I am here today. So with Kampo it is something similar to that. Whereby students are accessing learning materials for free. All they need is just to install and keep using it. First of all, times are changing. And today the generation that we are right now is about technology. And one thing I can say, books sometimes, the hard cope is that sometimes can be tiresome to read. But with Kampo we have designed it in a way that it will also enhance your learning to be effective and fun. People are loving it and we appreciate a lot. Though I can say that everybody is happy because we are still humans, we are working on it. Some are complaining like there are some units that they don't have notes but we are working on that. We are visiting every campus, we are coming to a campus. We get the notes there, they can send to us, we can add them there so that it can also help someone else who is coming. And they will read what they have learnt also. We are trying to communicate with different students, whereby they come together with us. They understand our motto, our missions and visions. That is why they are helping us. They are sacrificing the notes that they have instead of deleting, they are sending them to us. Whereby we want to provide it for other students. Currently we are not working with any institution, we are on our own. But in future time we are looking forward to work with some of them. We have very many mentors outside the country, around the country. The ultimate goal is to make sure every university student, every high school student, every primary school student is able to access learning materials because that is the future. Like for example, no one knew what will happen during corona. Everybody saw that the world has gone flat. So with Kampo people can now use it like a library to learn from there. I think I have the best colleagues that I am working with. They are very understanding, they are very supportive because this work is not very easy. Because it needs a big heart and my colleagues are very friendly, they are very... They are always there for you, they are always supporting you. And I appreciate them a lot. One of my friends who is also my mentor and one of my co-founders, his name is Steven Kilelu. And he also has another one who is called Anthony Madenge. We can't say we are financially stable but we are working on it because we are still working on other projects. What we do, we work on other projects that help us to finance the main project. We develop apps for people, we develop websites for people so that we can get something little and boost our main objective. Okay, we are working on our company that operates around Dekand, Kileleshwa. We have an iCommerce app. We have also apps on the Play Store. Just like games and wallpapers. I see Kampo as a learning material, a e-learning material in the whole world. We are buying. Africa is a whole continent. If everyone was given a chance to learn, we are going to change the world. So by Kampo, we are aiming to access every African nation, every country to make education accessible to everyone, every single person. That is our aim. You know, some things it's like a calling. And even doing this, you have to have a big heart and a calling because you can't just wake up and do it. Like I can say, if I call the Bible, people like Moses, Abraham, they have to leave everything so that they can work on their purpose. And I think this is our purpose, one of our purpose because we have many purposes. We'll come again to tell you about them. But for now, since we are talking about Kampo, it's a purpose, it's like a calling that every time when you wake up, there's a ring on your mind, Kampo. When you sleep, if you have not done much, there's a ring. When you are delaying or you are just not doing what is right, Kampo is there to remind you. It's like a... Remember, let me quote the Bible, like Jonah. Even while he was at the sea, he was not at peace because he was not doing his purpose. That is how it is with Kampo. Yes, we have other projects coming, but we'll tell them when they are ready. We have done some charity work, some foundations. And actually we also have a project whereby we are planning to unite all the children, so in Kenya, so that we can change the lives of many children. Many children because not everyone is... Not everyone is as the access that we have. So that is working on that, we have done some charities around Rwai. Yes, and we also done some charities around Machakos. Like I remember there is a time we did a part where we invited Machako school of the blind to have a lunch with them. Some of the challenges are, first of all there is finances, but we are still working on that. Second of all is depression. Yes, people want to wake up in the morning and find everything done. And we appreciate because that is what keeps us moving. With the work that we have right now, I think we are compatible with how we are working. But we are looking forward since we are going to cover another country soon and another country and another country and another continent. We need a lot of people. And through that we are going to change the society because we are not only helping the students to learn, we are also creating employment because let me take an example of what Miki Baki did. If he did not give me a free learning, I will not be here changing other people's lives. And if Kampu is not here to give you free notes, you are not going to change other people's lives. So download Kampu, install it, learn and change other people's lives in the future. As a team is the joy and the happiness of working. When you find the right people to work with, you feel happy, you feel the passion of what you are doing.  They challenge you every now and then. And that is the good thing about working with my colleagues. Personally, I think my strength comes from the Lord. I need to pray here and there. Pray makes things work. My advice will be fast, they have to pray. They should also have a guidance and a direction. Don't think it's a one night thing unless you are too perfect. I like also to encourage them. So sometimes they feel like it's the end of the road. No. For me, I appreciate it.  Because in the evening, it is when you feel you are so congested with everything of that day. I don't prefer, but how my life has been to me, good things happen in the evening. Because after a very long day, that is when you want to relax. And that is when good things come. People don't give because they have a lot. They give because they know the feeling of lacking. So at times you don't have to look for the money. Go give what you have. I can say a lot of the things that I get in life is about giving. When you give, it will come back to you maybe 10 times. So when you give your time to someone, even your time, people value time of their own. So when someone gives you a time, that time will come back. You will be favored, something like that. That is how the universe works. So those people out there, give your time to something. It will come back. Maybe if you want to do some charity work, give your time to the charity work. The charity will come back to you. People will be charitable to you. I like to thank my friends a lot. My workmates a lot very much. I like to thank my parents. I like to thank my friends. I like to thank my lecturers who motivate me a lot. And my teachers, my guardians. And my mentors across the nation. Education is very important. And what we are trying to do is impact everyone to get a glimpse of education. And by education it doesn't mean that you have to go to school. But I don't encourage you to not go to school. If you are capable of going to school, go to school. But if you are not capable, try to learn something.  You know? Sometimes when I was not in school, I used to go and find a newspaper and read. That will improve your knowledge.  If you don't cultivate it, it will grow with. If you cultivate it, it will produce good fruits. So work on your mind. One of the leaders that inspires me a lot is Boris Johnson, the UK Prime Minister. Also Mikey Bakie, how he did with Kenya. That education thing. Also Kezore Kendeke. Some of the other leaders they are not so much known. But also my lecturers, my dean, Dr. Zioka, thank you so much. And even my friends, my coworkers, they are also leaders. Definitely. And also KBC. KBC is the leading channel because you can access KBC anywhere. I mean anywhere. Whether you have an aerial or not, you will access it. First of all, you have to look who you are targeting first of all. And what are you solving. I was once told by my mentor, there is a lot of problems in the world. If you can solve those problems, you are at a good place. So with an app, if you see a problem, you can solve it. But the question comes, what's your target? How many people? Are they willing to download that app? Currently we appreciate volunteers a lot because the app has not already started paying. So right now it's like you're setting a foundation. So volunteers are much welcomed. For work, we'll tell them when we start moving to other nations. They can contact us through email, at info.campo.co.ke. They can find us on Facebook and on Instagram at Campo. They can also find us on YouTube or on our YouTube channel.


'd be like, oh, see, you're doing it more often. I'm like, whoa.  It's kind of like, okay, it kind of motivates me to want to keep doing it because nobody wants to talk to an empty room because I already do that all the time. Literally, when I'm recording videos, there's nobody empty room. When you guys watch my videos, every video I make has like 40 minutes worth of recording and you'll see like an eight minute video. I spend a majority of the time that I do the YouTube just talking to myself. So like, that's the way. Yes, he does. Like, that's the way YouTube works though, like, especially when you're a solo guy and you don't have the camera or a whole. So like, that's just the way it is. So like, I already spend a lot of time talking to myself. So like, when I go online, I don't base my values on how many friends I have on Facebook, how many followers on Instagram or YouTube. Like, I don't think I am a more important person today. Like, I'm kind of a big deal because of my followers. Like, I don't want to be presumptuous. Let's say the channel hits 100,000, I'll be so thankful and we'll probably do a live stream and we'll celebrate and we'll be popping the bottles and having fun and it'll be all good. Can we hang plastic and shoot champagne everywhere? Like, do they do with the finals? Yes. Oh, it's happening. Oh yeah. Yes, that'll happen on stream. Oh yeah. Yes. That's the best idea I've heard out of you yet. We should have had them prepared for E3 in case we were short breath a while too. That was a popping moment for me. But that would be like for the channel. Yeah, so like, that's cool. And I definitely enjoy that, but it's also like, we hit 100,000 and then, you know, I walk away from the computer and I go, okay. So... Cool, what's for dinner? Yeah, like, what's for dinner? Like, I kind of move on, you know, I don't know if you call that humbleness. I don't know if I even go that far. It's just more of a perspective. I didn't grow up basing my self-values on what other people think of me. And this sometimes even bothers you, like today we went to the dollar store to get some dish soap. No big deal. We just ran out of the dish soap and she wanted to go out of the house because she hasn't been out since her surgery. So she comes with me or we're getting ready to go and I'm just wearing some cruddy, crappy shirt and shorts and not even with a camera. She's like, that's what you're gonna wear. You know, red doesn't go red or this and that.  I'm like, I care what you think of me.  I don't give two flying fucks what any of those people think.    Like what's what, you know how easy it is for me to not care what you say about me guys? Jesus, almost knocked over the quila. Quila. Okay. Bye. Like. Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia.  Still love you guys, but yeah. Like I can turn it off.  To put the phone down. Like there's just so many self valuations that are put into social media and I feel like it's seeping into everything and it's taking what used to be something you could grow out of. I feel like console wars was something you could grow out of. You'd have it all the way through high school. You'd hit college and you'd start to realize really not that big a deal. Who plays what? What's what happened to me? I was all console war. Hit college, didn't matter anyone. Yeah. Nobody cares about it. It's not that important. Yeah. Now. Oh boy.  Everything's the biggest deal all the time. Joe Biden farts on TV.  Like, but that's the way it is. Like things feel like they're, it's almost, you remember when you were in high school and this is just part of growing up in general but when you're in high school, everything feels like such a huge deal. Everything that happens, everything. Like you, God, I turned in my homework and I'm gonna get 15 points off on that. Like it feels like this massive deal to you, Gray didn't even budge.  Like, oh my God, this is like, I can't do this, I'm crying.     That was not a normal thing. No, no, that's not a normal everyday occurrence in high school.  As I grew up, it really wasn't that big a deal. It feels like every day is turning into a high school. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get to. Like that's what, it feels like high school for the younger generation anyways, it just never ends, it just keeps going. But why? No. I think a lot of it's social media. I think it encourages that behavior. You live in the moment, the moment of that tweet you put up.  And then they spend every waking moment the next year trying to do it again.  Because it gets attention. And we get into this attention seeking behavior whether it's negative or positive. And I hate it. And I try so hard to keep my kid, my daughter I think is already too long gone because of her other dad. But I try so hard to shelter my kids from it, not saying that, hey, I don't use social media. I mean, I can't be one of those parents like, oh, you can't use social media.   It's for adults. I'm like, no, I'm a dumb, their friends are doing it. But it's more about being responsible and how I introduce them to those things and making them realize these are just some things you can do for fun. Maybe if you're lucky, you can make money and do it for a living.  You can't be an Instagram model for a living. Of course you can, but it's just like becoming an actor. It's a lot of work and you need some lucky breaks along the way. You might never get there. So it's more like it could be your goal to become a famous YouTuber.  And I tell them, you don't want to be like me. You want to be like 30 times bigger than me. But I'm like, but here's the reality. You see how hard dad works at it and I'm not that successful.  I always say do it for fun. And then if you end up getting a lucky break and becoming popular and making money from it, amazing. But it shouldn't really be your goal. Like this is why I absolutely could see for some YouTubers where YouTube is a job, right? It's literally a job, it's everything. Fine, I could see how that happens.  This is like, you do all this to push them as a YouTuber but there's no guarantee of success in that field.   You get a job somewhere, an entry-level job. But you can get entry-level YouTube. Anyone can do it.  But entry-level in pretty much everything. Like even, I know you've had a proper job for your last degree, but like if you did get one it's just sky's the limit from there. Your work you do determines your future. The thing is too is YouTube's only been around for X number of years. We haven't had the generational, so think of like an actor or things like that where we have generational actors that the family is an actor, their kids are actors. I don't think we have had enough time with YouTube to have a YouTube star, all of a sudden their kids are massive YouTube stars, their kids are massive YouTube. That kind of feeder, quote unquote, feeder program. But even then, even then, that's just like Paris Hilton, I'm rich because my parents are rich. Oh no, but you're saying you don't see a part where a parent would encourage your kids to do. I'm saying like with that in the aspect of- Oh, there are some that do.  Well yeah, because you know your kids will be successful because you have a big enough following to give them a start. A start. At least they'll have a better chance than a normal person off the street. Sure, and just like my daughter, she'd have a better chance of getting her first 10,000 subscribers on YouTube because of me. And I know that, but I also know that's nothing. I mean, it's not nothing, but it's nothing in the sense of if you're trying to be it for a career, it's nothing. So like, there's that aspect, I suppose, but I also look at it as that's like anything. Like, you know, my dad's a high up at a company. He could hire me when I graduate if I want. Like it's the same sort of, it's where your parents take their position and give you the advantage to do a similar position if you would like to. When you talk about the generational wealth, what sort of, it's a generational thing like if your dad's a carpenter and you become a carpenter, you could probably work for your dad, et cetera, et cetera, take over the family business and all that. That's basically what it would be with YouTube because eventually the person that's at the top, they got popular in their first place is gonna die, but they can still, before the hell happens, pass everything down the line. So like, but that could happen in any profession, but bottom line is almost every single profession, you're able to get there. Like, if you look at a lot of the popular YouTubers, the most probably, they got to by accident. Now, yeah, they could pass it on down now. Like, Lioness Tech Tips now has a billion channels, but like, that channel becoming as big as it was, Lioness wasn't doing that crap full-time, he was working at a PC hardware store. Like, he wasn't a full-time YouTuber, he kind of got popular by accident and grew from there. And like, that's what I'm saying about when you're looking at any sort of social media, I want to become a star and you don't have a parent or cousin or something who can feed you to get you started, it's all luck.  He was doing it because it was fun. Yeah. And got lucky. And that's why I try to tell my kids, do it for fun and get lucky. Yeah, if I end up becoming a mega YouTuber someday, if I am fortunate enough to be the next beat-em-ups and hit a million subscribers someday, that's awesome. But like, you know, I'm in my mid-30s, let's say that happens by the time I'm 50 or something. Okay, cool.    So like, I don't know. That happens nowadays too. But this just all goes into the psyche of the younger generation. And by the way, I'm not saying, again, you can absolutely do social media as a job. But it's also one of those, it's not one of those careers where unless you know someone that will give you a following, there's no guarantee of success. Which you can say that about any career but it's especially true with social media. You could be tick-tocking for 10 years. There's no guarantee you'll ever get more than a single follower and it's probably your mom. I mean, that's just the way it is.  If you wanna get far away from your family and other values you might have, screw it.  You could find a job doing it somewhere, but there's not a degree to become a YouTuber that guarantees you're gonna be able to go somewhere and be successful at YouTube. Now, could you be a videographer that has a whole world of opportunities and YouTube would be one of those, but you aren't the person building the following, right? Like, you're the person that's gonna be behind the scenes. So like, sure, you can get into YouTube in that sense. Passion for videography, a passion for editing. Like, you can be a video editor because you can not only do that for multiple YouTubers, you can do that for other production companies and stuff. So like, there are paths, but to be like a host, homegrown from your home, like, that's all luck, unless someone gave you a following.  It pisses me off while losing some of the farmers.  But that's one thing that does still work for me to this day. Hmm, sold for 70,000. I wonder how it was worth $70,000. Hmm, the guy, so the owner who sold it, who hadn't been around in three years, sold it for 70,000. Last time he was around, he got 200 views. Now it's getting four million a month. Don't know. You know, it's almost like that 70,000 should be mine. Yeah. Anyways, that's how it works. We had a couple extra super chats. Yes, that's what I want, some shots. And if you had a working laptop, you'd be able to read. I would. Technically it works. I just don't know where the power cord went. Yes, this little thing. We had a couple, I see one. Just a prop. Prop. There's, I think at least two. Oh. Nope, that's the Drew Holiday Layout one. Pretty sure. Just from reading off the screen. Taker 610 said F spawncast. Prime podcast of where it's at. Prime podcast! Yeah, that's it. I thought there was one more. Nope. Taker 610, there's another one out here that the Bucks are guaranteed the championship in 2071. What? According to the Taker. Oh, no, no, are you talking about the Taker? That's from a previous stream. Well, I was like, wait a second. I remember that one. That was last time I streamed. Got it, we just didn't clear the Taker. Cheers, yeah, I didn't clear the Taker. On that one. OK. So there was already one super chat on there from. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. OK. What's the massive surprise happening for Switch? Oh, gosh. That's a very fair question since that's in the title. Yes, it is. So one, the title is obviously a little bit clickbaity. But beyond that, the surprise is that future Nintendo games like Xenome Chronicles 3 and Breath of the Lahtu might be massive, like 30 plus gigs in size, which suggests games are bigger than we've ever seen from Nintendo. OK, so Gimpler, the happenin' says, I'm sure there's a formula to be successful on YouTube, but this platform is still fairly new. Like, I was in a pop band with a pop music formula to have a hit song, but that industry is more mature. So like, you can look like Mr. Beast, right? He blew up. But is he, like, he made videos where he's like, if I'm not in a million subscribers in five years, then, you know, at this place, I'm out. OK, that's fine. But like, even as he was doing things to get attention and grow his channel, he knew, and you could tell in his early videos that he had no idea if it was gonna work. Now, you can always figure it out, not all sure, because he's been doing it long enough and been successful at it. But at the beginning, you can watch his early video. He had no, he was in college.  He wanted it to, of course, but he wasn't like banking on it. Then, when it got big enough, he dropped out of college and everything else. So it's like, you can argue there's a formula, but nobody's really figured it out. Every person, like, even when Mark Rober, like, came to it and did it, he had no idea he was gonna give you, he was working for NASA, right? An actual astrophysicist, like, crazy intelligent, massive engineer. He's so really brilliant. You know, you gotta be to work at NASA. And yet, he started making YouTube videos and he had no idea those YouTube videos were gonna do well. But they did. One went viral, then two went viral. Next thing you know, anything he makes goes viral. Like, he didn't know that. He didn't know when he started making videos that were gonna blow up and he was gonna be a YouTuber. No idea. So, and a lot of these YouTubers, by the way, they've talked about this publicly and said we have no idea how we got here. Like, we know what works now, but we didn't know this was gonna work when we started. So, when you see some of these videos, this person broke the code. This person knows that nobody knows. Nobody actually knows how to start from nothing and become something. No, like, even when you look at, like, SwitchForce, right? SwitchForce is almost at 400,000 subscribers. Guess what? They were able to siphon off of Ghost Robo's channel. It has almost 2 million because the person who runs SwitchForce built that channel up. So, he got to kickstart SwitchForce to becoming his primary channel that he does now. But you ask him, how did you get the Ghost Robo channel to be popular?  We'll all say hard work, dedication, schedule. We'll talk about all this stuff and then you'll see other YouTubers that don't work hard, don't have a consistent schedule and they're just as big. Because there's not really a method to getting popular. Unless you're gonna say the method is, know someone who's already popular, that wants to help you out. Like, okay, sure, that's like, that's what a guarantee, we just talked about, that's like, Gary. I cracked, you wear a squirrel mask. You wear a squirrel mask. That's the problem. I should be wearing a squirrel mask every video. Yep. And when I make the nut joke. Yes, squirrel's gone wild. Squirrel's gone wild. And I make the nut joke. I have the biggest walnut. Yes.  Right. This is a gaming podcast. So when Jay did it, so that's pretty new. People are just getting into YouTube. Here's what I'll say about the YouTube and new thing.  Here's what I'll say about YouTube. It's the number two most visited website on the planet. I don't think we're past the point of calling that new. The only thing that's more popular is it's parents company, google.com. It's Google and YouTube. Two most popular websites in the world. So I don't think we can just sit here and keep calling it new when it's been consistently number two forever. I don't know, maybe it'll pass Google someday. I have no idea. It's new in the fact of like a career. Generational career based, yeah, type that type.  Right. And start from nothing and guarantee you're getting anywhere. Whereas a lot of other career paths, it's like, look, as long as you're willing to move and go anywhere, you could find something. And as an example, go and get a degree as a nurse. You're gonna find a job. Yeah. It's high demand position. Oh, for sure. Not really a high demand for YouTubers. I would say the demand for YouTubers is not a demand. It's a convenience. Yeah, there's no demand for YouTubers. Like when you guys are watching YouTube, you think, man, I wish a YouTuber existed that did X, Y, and Z. You know what happens? The people that say that, they make it. They go to it themselves. Right. Like, I don't know. It's a weird medium. This is a weird medium. Just look at the guy who didn't have a dad growing up and now he has his own YouTube channel doing dad things, teaching people how to do, you know, as if he was their dad, you know, type of thing. That's freaking awesome. Yeah. I don't remember what the guy's name, which, yeah, I'm sorry, I don't, but. But that's the thing. That person started the YouTube. Yep, I know how to get popular and make it do this for a living. Well, no. But. Like I said, and talk about how new it is, but bottom line is it doesn't matter how new it is, social media is not. I mean, TikTok's way newer. Social media has been around for like two decades now. We're getting to the point where I know it's not like 100 years old, but I mean, it's, someone was born at the beginning, they'd be 20. It's been around long enough. So the point where social media is very understood to be something that there's no guaranteed success at. And the YouTube, I think people forget, is a social media platform. People forget sometimes that YouTube is a social media platform, since it's a video platform, and there's so many businesses and companies and doing it for a living and ads, people are all like, oh yeah, YouTube's not social media, it is social media. It's just a video social media platform. So I don't know.  I thank you for the 93 plus we still have watching. You guys are awesome. Those are extra long episodes. They've been a couple long episodes in a row. It's been a while. It's one of those, the episodes will be a bit long for a bit before we start dialing back to about 90 minutes because we haven't done doing podcasts for a while. So we're kind of just letting it fly because I feel like I owe you guys longer shows because god damn, dude, I remember Momentum. Don't lose it for me three. All right, let's just not do a podcast for a month and a half. Sorry, well then, whoops. Yet again, we were at like 130, 140, although then my clickbait work. Did we prove, we'll have to compare this to last week and see if the click, you know what it was though. It'd be like, the clickbait didn't work. It was a squirrel mask. They saw that and said, nope. Or they'll say Eric was there. I mean, that's a sexy beast. But I doubt it. I don't know why anybody watches for me, but cool, thank you, hi. Because you're wearing a Bucks final shirt. I am. Worth it just for that. So anyway, thank you guys for tuning in. It's been a fun podcast. Hopefully you guys learned something.  All right, cool. So yeah, we'll be back next week. Probably have a special guest. I did have a guest today that backed out. You know, I don't like bad talking people, so we'll just leave it at that. But we'll have hopefully a new guest next week. No, some people will be like, get Andre's restart. I hear you. Because he was like a semi-regular before. He will be on again just not next week. He's still on vacation. He's on like a super long vacation. I don't know if I'm allowed to say where he's at, but I know where he's at. Just to say he's not in the country. So he'll be back. I think he said next week, Thursday, so that's past our podcast date. So it won't be next week, so it'll probably pop on the week after. Besides that, I guess some other people I've been talking to behind the scenes, trying to get some stuff worked out with schedules and everything. So we will be back though next week, Wednesday. Probably on time. We have a guest. We're always on time. If we don't, we just kind of wing it when we feel like it, because I'm not gonna rush myself on it. So if it's scheduled, Eric's here, cool. So all right, we'll make it work. We were watching a bit of the Brewer game as an example, it really distracted me. The 110 nothing. Of course they did. So we were watching the Brewer game for a little bit there, and then I looked at the time and you're like, oh right, I don't have anything set up yet. Oh well, I guess we'll just do this at nine. Oh, get close to nine. Okay, maybe nine, 20. So even then, this really isn't that long we cast, like two hours or so, whatever. But then you guys are tuning in. We're at three, dude. No, we're not. Yeah, we're at five, 251. Yeah, it's not exactly that, because remember, 60 minute run-up, so it's like two and a half. It's like two and a half. Two and a half. Splitting hairs over here. Five, five. Here we go, start beating each other. Go back to the E3. Good job! Yeah, you're right. Get over here!  Remember what happened? Probably because I woke the kids up. Well no, remember? You don't know how to get angry at me anymore.  Nah, I'm pretty sure I can outrun her right now. Pretty sure I can outrun her before the surgery, to be honest. But I just take it, I'm a man. You know what I get? No, you're not. You're not 40. Oh god. Okay. That's it. Nope. It's podcast. It's podcast. Oh boy. Thank you guys for tuning in.  It's been a while. Oh boy. Otherwise you can find it right here on YouTube. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is a one of a kind YouTube show, if you didn't know. We finished this off with a quick three-shotter.  You guys are awesome. Eric, where could they find you on the socials? Twitter at emo8790. That's pretty much it. Otherwise, here Wednesdays. Yup. You can find me. I don't even know. Everywhere. Anywhere that a Nintendo Prime exists. Instagram. Twitter's at nintyprime. Only fans? I don't know. I think I have a Nintendo Prime account on only fans. Really? Oh. There's nothing on it. There's nothing on it. By the way, if you find it, there's nothing there. Maybe, you know what? If we ever get kicked off Patreon, which God, we never mentioned Patreon. I make like no money on Patreon anymore. Scroll back. But, if we ever lose all our members on YouTube and lose everyone on Patreon, I'm converting. We're just gonna have it only fans as a way to benefit the channel. Ooh. Whoa. Uh-oh. That's an alarm. Let me know. Actually, it's not for me, it's for somebody else. I think yesterday we'll catch you in the next episode next week. Peace.


We have removed every structure from the abdomen and we are seeing the posterior abdominal wall. These are the locations where the kidneys are located. So let's take the left side. I've lifted up thin membrane structure here and I've reflected here and I've reflected here. This is the posterior parietal peritoneum and after that we can see a thick fatty layer. This is the retroperitoneal fat. Once we cut open the retroperitoneal fat which we have done here, we notice that the retroperitoneal fat which is of variable thickness, which varies from person to person, there is a distinct plane of cleavage and we can see yet another layer here. This is the continuation of the fascia transversalis which here in this region becomes known as the anterior layer of the renal fascia or the gerotas fascia. And under that we can see yet one more layer of fat. This is the perinephric fat and once we remove this, then we can see the kidney here.  So these are all the fatty structures and the fascia structures around the kidney. We have shown it on the left side. We can show the similar thing on the right side also. Though there is a slight variation. I am lifting up the posterior peritoneum here and we can see the retroperitoneal fat. We have separated it out here and we can see the beginning of the renal fascia or the gerotas fascia with the perinephric fat here. That's all we can see on this side because of certain pathology, the findings are not so clear as on the left side. This extraperitoneal fat is a well documented area for retroperitoneal lipoma, retroperitoneal liposarcoma and as an adverse effect to certain medications, the patient can also develop what is known as retroperitoneal fibrosis and obstruction of the ureter. We have completely removed everything. I am standing on the right side. Camera person is on the left side. This is going to be a demonstration of the kidney and the ureter and the vascular structures. Let's start with the peritoneum here on the left side. This is the peritoneum, this shiny thing that you see here. When this peritoneum comes in front of the kidney, we can see that the kidney is retroperitoneal. So we have reflected the peritoneum. Under that there is a layer of fat which is called the retroperitoneal fat. After we have removed the retroperitoneal fat, we have two other layers of fat and we can see one of the layers of fat here. We have retained a little bit of that on the left side. This is the perinephric fat which completely encircles the kidney and this perinephric fat is situated under the renal fascia or the gerotas fascia. The gerotas fascia is derived from the extension of the fascia transversalis which splits anteriorly and posterior to enclose. Further posteriorly we see this layer of fat which is behind the posterior layer of gerotas fascia and this is referred to as the pararenal fat body. So we have removed all of this and once we removed this fat anteriorly, we noticed that this particular kidney had a very thick and a white renal capsule which was completely separate from the kidney. Normally the renal capsule cannot be separated so easily and we can see it here and inside the kidney is quite shrunken and atrophic. So this is what we see on the left side and if you were to look on the posterior aspect, we can see multiple honeycombed appearances of the kidney. So this looked like an end stage renal disease. If we were to look on the right side, we see the same thing to an even more extreme degree. Here we have completely removed all the fat and fascia and we can see that the kidney is completely atrophic and we can see this is that renal capsule I was talking about. It is thick, it is white and it is easily separable from the kidney and we have separated it out from here and we can see the kidney has got multiple honeycombed appearance. So this is the first abnormality that we noticed about both the side kidneys. Now let's take a look at the blood vessels of the kidney. This is the inferior vena cava and this is the aorta. We can see this vein coming out. This is the renal vein and as we know the left renal vein is longer than the right renal vein. The left renal vein is opening into the hyalum of the kidney and it is receiving this vein here. This is the left supra renal vein. This is the left supra renal gland and it is also receiving these veins here. These are the left testicular or the gunadal vein. Accompanied this, we have this vessel here. This is the left renal artery. We can see that in this particular cadaver there are not one but two left renal arteries. This is the one which I have picked up here. It is coming from the aorta. We can see one here and we can see yet one more left renal artery and it is coming from here. This is the other renal artery which is coming from the aorta. Therefore there are two distinct renal arteries coming from the aorta. Now we will shift our focus to the right side. We can see that this is the right renal vein coming from the inferior vena keva. It is coming from one origin and it is becoming two. And here also we can see two right renal arteries. One of them is this one coming from the aorta here and we can see yet another one coming from the aorta here. If you have any questions or comments please put them in the comment section below. Have a nice day.


If you live in the Brainerd area, you know that traffic can get congested along Highway 210 and down 6th Street. Beginning this winter, you'll begin to see major changes along Business Highway 371 through Brainerd. Clayton Castle has that story. Driving through Brainerd is typically nice and free of construction, but if you drive along 6th Street between Joseph Street and Highway 210, you will begin to see major changes coming as early as this winter. Last major improvement to the south 6th Street was back in 1957 when it was actually widened. So the center part of the road is also in that 60 to 70 year vintage and just really do for replacement. It's well outside the anticipated service life. In addition to the repavement of 6th Street, the project will also see a replacement of sewer and water pipes that are well over 100 years old, as well as widening parts of the street. With the necessity of digging at times 14 feet below the ground and mounting concerns about traffic, the Minnesota Department of Transportation held an open house on Tuesday evening to present the project and answer any questions the community may have. Of course it was our first real opportunity to present schedules in more detail than we've been able to in the past. Now when the major part of the project is set to begin in the spring, crews will begin their work on the south end here at Joseph Street and will finish up in the late fall on the north end here at Washington Street. Among the concerns is how the project will affect businesses along 6th Street and according to Brainerd's mayor, it will be up to the businesses to find creative ways to adapt. Well, the businesses during the construction are going to have to be a little bit inventive in how they deal with their customers, how they bring their customers in, have to talk to the customers and bring them through. Despite the possible issues, the mayor says the project is important for the vitality of Brainerd for years to come. Yes, we're going to have some inconveniences but we're also going to end up with a good project done. The project will basically make that thoroughfare viable for the next 40 to 50 years with no more work on it. The project will begin this winter with minor sidewalk repairs and tree cutting with the major road work beginning in April 2018. Reporting in Brainerd Clayton Castle, Lakeland News. The project is expected to be completed in the late fall of 2018. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


The mutual broadcasting system presents The Mysterious Traveller, written, produced and directed by Robert A. Arthur and David Cogan, and starring tonight two of radio's foremost personalities, Santos Ortega and Anne Shepherd, in Out of the Past. This is The Mysterious Traveller, inviting you to join me on another journey into the realm of the strange and the terrifying.  So settle back, get a good grip on your nerves and be comfortable, if you can, as you hear Out of the Past. Your name is Joan Morgan, and as you stand looking over Central Park from your penthouse terrace on this beautiful spring day, you can't help but feel you're the luckiest woman living. You're young, attractive, fairly wealthy, and happily married to a Broadway actor. Yes, Joan, there's little more you could ask for. The doorbell rings you run to the door to reach your husband, Keith, who's home from his matinee performance. Hello, beautiful. How's my one and only? Hello, darling. Oh, Keith, no wonder every actress wants to have you for her leading man.  You'd better say that. How was the matinee today? Fine. I got seven curtain calls. Oh, here's the afternoon mail. I picked it up at the desk. Anything for me? I haven't looked it over there. Oh, yes, here's one for me. Three others for you, dear. Let's see. This one's a bill from the hotel management. Darling, we're living beyond our means. Oh, Keith, you're not going to start that again, are you? Well, we have over half a million dollars.  It's yours, not mine. Darling, it isn't a question of it being yours or mine. It's ours. Joan, I made it clear to you when we got married that we'd have to live on the money I earn. Then what'll I do with my money if you won't allow me to spend it? Well, someday we'll have six children. You can save it for them. All right, darling. I wonder who my letter can be from. You rip open the envelope, Joan, as Keith looks at the rest of his mail. For a moment, you feel as if your heart has stopped and it begins to beat wisely. Over and over, you read the two sentences. A friend from Europe expects you tomorrow afternoon at two o'clock at the Hotel Edgewood. Please bring $25,000 in cash or else I shall be forced to take action. Joan Benedict. Joan, what is it? What's wrong, darling? What did you say? You look so upset. Is it that letter you're reading? Letter? No. No. Well, then, if it isn't the letter, what is it? It's nothing, darling. Nothing at all. It's just that I am a headache. Oh, I'm sorry. Can I get you something? No, Keith. No, no. I'll be all right. All I need is a little rest. Come in, won't you, Joan? Sorry to have kept you waiting. Martin, you must help me. Of course, Joan. You know I'd do anything for you. Sit down and tell me about it. Martin, I'm in trouble. I'm in great trouble. Joan, what is it? What's wrong? I'm being blackmailed. Blackmailed? Yes. By whom? A man named John Benedict. I don't know who he is. But I received a letter from him yesterday afternoon. There's only one thing to do, and that's to go to the police. I'll call the district attorney. No, no, no. I can't go to the police. Why not? This man, Benedict, knows something I can't afford to have exposed. What does he know, Joan? Please, don't ask me. I know that you are my father's best friend, but I can't tell you. Believe me, if it ever gets out, it would ruin my marriage. My life. I couldn't stand to lose Keith. I couldn't.  All right, Joan. I think you're making a mistake, but I'll help you. How much money does this man, Benedict, want? An hour later, you enter a dingy hotel and go to room 14. As Martin opens the door, he reveals a squalid, dimly lit room. For the first time, Joan, you see John Benedict.  In the half-light, he appears to be about 50. His clothes are a fine English cut, but time and wear have taken their toll. He stares at you for a moment, Joan, and speaks. How do you do, Mrs. Morgan? Won't you please come in? Thank you. This is Mr. Walker, friend. Yes, yes, of course. I trust you will forgive me these dismal surroundings, but alas, I am quite penniless. So you thought it would be an excellent idea to blackmail this lady for funds? I am afraid you misunderstand me, Mr. Walker. I am not forcing this beautiful lady to give me 5,000 pounds. Rather, I am, shall we say, requesting a loan? Yes, but if she doesn't give you this loan, you'll ruin her marriage or her life. It would distress me to ruin anyone's life, but then it also distresses me to live in a pigsty like this. A much more suitable place would be the state penitentiary. Martin, please don't talk like that. Evidently, Mrs. Morgan, your friend is more interested in having a distant reason than in saving you from disaster. I'm afraid you have not revealed our little secret to Mr. Walker. No. No, I haven't. Well then, perhaps if we were to tell him, he would not be quite so eager to imprison me. Perhaps if he knew that at one time you have... No, no, no. Don't say any more. I'll pay you. Allow me to commend you on your good judgment. Martin, give him the money. Give it to him. Very well.  Thank you. I think you have been very wise, Mrs. Morgan. Very wise indeed. Good day. In the weeks that follow, Joan, you try to forget Mr. Benedict, and the terrifying secret he shares with you, but you aren't successful are you? Everywhere you go, you unconsciously find yourself fearfully looking for him. Life has become tense, frightening. Then one afternoon, while Keith is at rehearsal of a new play, you receive a phone call, a call that sends you in a panic to Martin Walker's office. Martin, I've heard from him again. Benedict? Yes, he phoned an hour ago. He wants $50,000. $50,000? Maybe now you'll have sense enough to let me turn this over to the police. No, I can't do that.  Yes, I must. But you can't. What's to prevent his extorting money from you a third or a fourth time? He'll squeeze you dry. The money doesn't matter. Do you hear? Nothing matters but keeping what Benedict knows from Keith. If Keith finds out, it'll mean the end of everything for me. Everything. Good afternoon, Mrs. Morgan. Oh, I see you brought Mr. Walker. And I was counting on a pleasant afternoon. May I take your call? No. Benedict, what do you mean by asking for $50,000? We paid you $25,000. That was supposed to keep your mouth shut. Well, it has. Up to now. But as you can see by this suite of rooms, Mr. Walker, it takes money to live lavishly. Therefore, I shall need more. Well, you shan't have it. We paid you off once. We're not paying you off again. There's a limit to what anyone will pay. Yes, quite true, Mr. Walker. But the limit has not been reached as yet. You swine.  Mrs. Morgan, I'm afraid you are allowing your friend to go too far. I have but to pick up this telephone, and your world will come crashing down about. No, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't, don't. Martin, give him the money. Put you in. Give it to him. Very well. Here it is, Benedict. But I warn you, you'd better not try anything further. There is such a thing as pushing a person too far. I shall try to remember that, Mr. Walker. Thank you for your advice and the money.  And even when you reach your own apartment, the fear hasn't left you. Weeks pass, life is a nightmare. Every time someone knocks at the door or the phone rings, your heart begins to beat wildly. And worst of all, Keith senses something is wrong. Try to answer, Keith. But I'm much closer to a day. Hello? This is Mr. Morgan's apartment. Yes. This is the stage manager at the theater. Will you please remind Mr. Morgan of the special matinee we're giving today? Yes. Yes, I'll tell him. It was a theater calling, Keith, to remind you of today's special performance. I haven't forgotten. It's only five of two. I still have a few minutes before I have to leave. John. Yes? What is it, darling? What's come over you? Come over me? Yes.  Every time the phone rings or the mail arrives, you begin to tremble. What's wrong? Darling, you're just imagining all that. John, stop acting as though I were a child. I can see something's wrong and I want to know what it is. Keith, please. There's nothing. Who could that be? Double-eyed, I'll get it. No, Keith, I would rather... Look, darling, you have to get to the... Who's taking him so long? Why doesn't he come back? Keith? Who is it? John, what is it? Why did you scream like that? I... I didn't scream. Who was that at the door? That was just a special delivery boy. He brought this special delivery for you. Special delivery? Yes, here. Thank you. Aren't you going to open it? After all, it is a special delivery. Yes. Of course. The Sony went so afraid of a letter. Who's it from? John, what's wrong? Nothing. Don't tell me that. You look as though you were going to collapse. Now, give me that letter. Oh, no, no, please, Keith, don't. I said, give it to me. Yeah, that's better. Perhaps this letter will tell me what's wrong. Well, it's only one sentence. I will phone you at two. There isn't even a signature. Who would know, John? I... I don't know. You must know, else why would you have grown so pale? I'll phone you at two. It's almost two now. I'll wait for that call. Keith, please, you must have faith in me. All these weeks I've had faith, said nothing. Hoping you'd tell me what was wrong. Now I must find out for myself. Well, right on time, just two o'clock. Keith, please, don't answer. Take your phone.  Please, Keith, no. I said, take your hand off the phone. Hello? Hello? There was a call hung up when they heard my voice.  All right, then. I have to leave for the matinee now. I won't be home for dinner, but... When I return after tonight's performance, we'll have this out once and for all. Keith, please. I just can't tell you. If you'd only... Goodbye, John. ...were Keith. If only I could tell you. But I know you wouldn't want me then. How could you? How could you if you... You promised you'd leave me alone. Did I never hear from you again? That was only a month ago. Yes. Ah, but then... I am always making promises. I'm not Keith. You've ruined everything, everything. My husband read the special delivery letter you sent. He answered the phone when you called a few minutes ago. How can I explain? Oh, that should not be too difficult for a clever woman like yourself. Do you want? I'm tired of your playing cat and mouse with me. I intend to call on you at 5.30 this afternoon. I won't pay you another cent to you here. There's no end to your demands. You may expect me at 5.30. No. And do not have Walker there. No, I won't see you. I won't see you. As you can see, I am this exactly 5.30. This is a lovely penthouse you have. It's good to see you without Walker around. How can you do this to me? I've never harmed you. Why do you insist on ruining my life? Why? My dear lady, the last thing I desire to do is to ruin your life. Unfortunately, the world you and I live in being what it is. I am forced by circumstances to live by my wits. If I give you the money now, how do I know you won't be back in another month? Oh, that is very simple.  What do you mean? I mean, Mrs. Morgan, that this time I want a half million dollars. Half million dollars? Yes. If I am not mistaken, that is what the balance of your fortune amounts to. Do you not see? Once you have paid it over to me, there would be no point in my bothering you anymore. Simple, is it not? You must be mad. I?  There are years and years of happiness before you. If he does not learn your little secret, you are wise. You will turn the money over to me. I can't. I can't if I were to withdraw a half a million. He'd find out about it. Ah, but there is always the chance that he won't. You do not do as I ask. I shall be forced to reveal the secret this year. No, no. Yes, Mrs. Morgan, your husband will learn that while you were in England in 1939, you murdered your, uh, sweet... I won't listen. I won't listen. But your husband will. And he will learn that after you committed this murder, you spent the following eight years in an English insane asylum. Think of what the sensation the tabloids will make out of it. And think of what people will say. Your husband would have to divorce. That is not going to help you, Mrs. Morgan. I just got your message at the theater. Where's Joan? What's wrong? She's in a bedroom with Dr. Richards. It seems that she... Here's Dr. Richards now. Doctor, what's wrong? Keith, you must prepare yourself for a shock. What's happened? Half hour ago, one of your neighbors on the floor heard Joan weeping and screaming hysterically. The manager knew I was your doctor and sent for me. But why was she weeping and screaming? She's had a breakdown. A breakdown? Yes. Well, I want to see her. I must. Very well, Keith, but only for a moment. Mr. Walker, I'm afraid you'll have to wait here. I understand, though. Keith, you must keep a grip on yourself. All right. Joan. Darling. Stay away from me. Stay away, both of you. Don't come near me. Doctor, don't you listen to him and recognize me. Yes, Keith, I know. I know who you are. You can't fool me. One of you is Mr. Benedict. Maybe both of you are Mr. Benedict. Yes. I know what you're here for, but I won't let you. I won't let you. She's completely out of her mind. I know you're both Mr. Benedict. You can't fool me. Who is this Benedict she keeps talking about? I don't know, Keith. She feels she's being persecuted by this Benedict fellow. He may be real, and again he may be a figment of her imagination. She's definitely afraid of us. Yes, she sees everyone as this fellow Benedict. I tried to give her a sedative, but she grows violent when I approach. Who can't... Can't you do something for her? I've already sent for an ambulance. She'd be much better off in a hospital where she can have constant medical care. Yes. Come along, Keith. How is she, Doctor? Well, it may be a long time before she recovers. I'm going down to the lobby. Wait for the ambulance. I suggest you two stay here. Keep an eye on her. I've left the door where room open. All right, Doctor. Shouldn't be more than a few minutes. How do you feel, Keith? Tired, if you want to know. It's only natural. These past two months have been quite strenuous for you. But for the half million dollars, and a wife who'll probably never be in any condition to ask you about it, you've done quite well. That's an understatement. Name one actor living or dead who could have given as great a performance of Mr. Benedict as I did. You were superb as Benedict, I admit. Superb why I was magnificent. The costume, the make-up, my accent, simply perfect. I'll tell you what was greatest performance ever given.  I'm sure I missed the performance of the age. I outdid myself. You should have heard me. Yes, Mrs. Morgan.  That after you committed this murder, you spent the following eight years in an English insane asylum. Ah, it's really a pity I've played my greatest role to an audience of one. Well, yes, Keith, but you were probably the highest paid actor in the world. I'm sure that a half million dollars for two months' work, unless my share, of course, is something of a record. Yes, it probably is. I heard you, Mr. Benedict. You can't fool me. I know one of you with Mr. Benedict. Or are you both Mr. Benedict? Yes. You both must be Mr. Benedict. That's clever. Say that disguise you use, that's clever. But you can't fool me. She must have heard me. But you can't fool me. She must have overheard you. No matter how many disguises you use, I know you. No, no, no, don't you come near me. Keith, she's going to come. Put that gun down. I'm not going to let you tell, I'm not going to let you tell. No, don't you... You...  Oh, Joe, though, I'm not Mr. Benedict. He's... Mr. Benedict. Mr. Benedict. Never tell Keith now. Never, never, never. Never, never, never. This is the mysterious Trapper again. Did you enjoy our trip? Too bad about poor Keith and Martin. Such interesting scoundrels. That fellow Keith was certainly a remarkable actor, wasn't he? But, uh, like so many actors, Yobo played his role. Uh, with fatal results. What happened to Joan Morgan? Well, the poor woman was committed to an institution where, after several years of treatment, she would cop it completely. However, she still has that deathly fear of the actors. All you'll have to get off here, I'm sorry. But I'm sure we'll meet again. I take this same train every week at the same time. You've just heard the Mysterious Traveller. A series of dramas of the strange and terrifying. The role of the Mysterious Traveller is quite different. The role of the Mysterious Traveller is played by Maurice Tarplin. Others in the cast were Santos Ortega and Shepard and Roger DeCovem. This is the mutual broadcasting system.


The metaphor of oneness is useful to explain how all things near and far from each other are ultimately connected to each other and ultimately influence each other. The failure to recognize the interconnectedness of all things and people, people with what we call nature, animals with what we call people is certainly one of the problems. The conditional recognition that we are not the same person is a healthy precondition for my gaining a greater understanding of the universe by listening to you carefully. One has to acknowledge that, you know, sometimes very highly educated people, people who are very thoughtful, very careful, they check their data, they check their syllogisms, they ask for criticism, and they work really hard to get things right, sometimes they get it wrong too. But that doesn't mean that people just based upon their instinct or their gut and their dismissal of those who analyze carefully would be making better decisions. Let's see, the foundation of it is that I study religions of African inspiration around the Atlantic perimeter. West African Yoruba religion, West Central African Congo religion, Brazilian Candomblé, I think I got all of them. And ever since about 1981, I've been researching and my major mode of study is to read as much as I can but then to go out and hang out deeply with people, to live with people, eat what they eat, dance what they dance, worship what they worship, you know, just think about the world in their terms by living that life. That's the fundamental shared technique of sociocultural anthropology. I am a person of both worlds. I'm a person of Afro-Atlantic religions. I'm a person of the Western Academy. I'm an anthropologist trying to understand the web of relationships that people create through these objects and I'm trying my best to learn how Africanist art historians understand them as well. You know, the ability to describe the differences among colors, to notice the textures, to examine the historical precedents in Rococo style as opposed to neoclassical style. Each of these traditions makes a somewhat different set of assumptions about the world, a somewhat different set of assumptions about what kind of objects best embody the forces that penetrate us and overlap within us and each of them is structured by a different kind of mythology. Someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective. Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? Five, four, three, two... What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. We are on site at the American Anthropological Association's annual meeting for our second partnership with them, now in Vancouver, British Columbia. We are now going to be sitting with Dr. J. Lorand Maturi, aka Randy. Hi, Randy. Hi, Alan. Thanks for going on the show. It's a pleasure. I'm very excited for our conversation. Randy is a Lawrence Richardson professor of cultural anthropology at Duke, also director of the Sacred Arts of the Black Atlantic Project at Duke. And we'll be diving into those two subjects before we start. I want to ask you some of our very deep questions that we've been obsessed with recently. Are we really all one? Well, to me, oneness is a metaphor. I believe that all of the substances, beings, and things around us are connected with each other, and that our tendency to give each of them a noun is really only approximate reality. Each thing is a halo. It's a halo of atoms. And in culture-specific and language-specific ways, we artificially presuppose the boundedness of each of those things, the conceptual boundedness and the physical boundedness of those things. And again, all of these things are halos. Things interdigitate with each other. Things depend on each other. This table couldn't sit where it is were it not for this floor. You and I couldn't sit here were it not for this floor. The thoughts that I'm articulating are now part of your thoughts, and the visual impression of you is part of my thoughts. So many things in us would be very different were I not looking at you, and many things in you would be different synaptically were you not listening to me. So the metaphor of oneness is useful to explain how all things near and far from each other are ultimately connected to each other and ultimately influence each other. But I don't think it's a fiction for me to call you Alan and for you to call me Randy in so far as we are conditionally separate halos. We are conditionally separate clouds of atoms whose contents don't thoroughly overlap, but it's very useful for us to recognize that already after three days of acquaintance there is not an insignificant overlap between who you are and who I am already. And then given this deep level of interconnectedness to each other, to nature, to all of existence, would this then be the most upstream issue, our lack of acknowledgement of that deep interconnectedness that is then causing all the downstream issues that our society faces? The failure to recognize the interconnectedness of all things and people, people with what we call nature, animals with what we call people is certainly one of the problems. The exaggerated premise of individuality in the West, the exaggerated premise of the uniqueness of human beings and our rights, the exaggerated premise of the uniqueness of the rights of Westerners or Europeans or men or straight people lend themselves to a good deal of unkind treatment of others which result in degrading effects to the world that we need to share. On the other hand, my appreciation of you is partly related to the fact that your bundle of molecules has had different experiences from my bundle of molecules. You look different. You grew up speaking a set of languages that's different from the set of languages that I grew up speaking. You are looking in that direction and I'm looking at this direction. So to my mind, the conditional recognition that we are not the same person is a healthy precondition for my gaining a greater understanding of the universe by listening to you carefully. My delighting in a new kind of human connection because you are not exactly like some people I grew up with or not exactly like my wife or child or not exactly like my colleague. My acknowledging the difference between you and all of them is a precursor to my appreciating you fully and learning as much as I can from you. Given the amount of wisdom and intelligence that comes with the awareness of the behaviors and the insights of indigenous people around our world and then the younger brother out in the metropolis is that is creating engineering, tinkering, making things that are useful at times. Would it be a happy marriage between these two, this indigenous intelligence with some of the abilities of modernity for there to be a better path moving forward? Yes, I assume that richer and more sincere conversations across all social categories will make the world a better place. I'm not sure that I know enough people who define themselves as indigenous to generalize about what they have to contribute. I certainly know a lot of people who understand themselves to be modern, which category I think includes a wide diversity of people. I consider myself to be a modern person. I tend to think of you as a modern person, both of whom have sampled a range of ways of thinking and are trying to find our way to the best ones. I'm a bit hesitant to credit a whole population of people called indigenous with a greater wisdom because concretely and honestly speaking I am aware of more than a few Native Americans who disregard the rights of the African-descended people who are members of their nations. For example, the Seminoles and the Cherokees have since the 1980s voted about a dozen times to exclude their African-descended citizens from rights of citizenship. That is to say, these tribes like several others in the southeast owned African people. When Andrew Jackson displaced these populations from the southeast, giving them parts of Oklahoma, their enslaved people went with them and often helped to mediate relations with white U.S. Americans so as to get the best deals for these tribes. Yet these tribes have repeatedly voted to disenfranchise the descendants of Africans. So if we consider these populations indigenous, I would also consider that indigenous people are equally vulnerable to the sorts of inhumanity, kindness, and out of proportion thinking that modern populations are capable of. Yeah, this is a really important example to bring up and I appreciate you doing so. That's very helpful. This complexity of this reality that we find ourselves in, is this the purpose of this all being here, of this reality being here is us figuring out how to harmonize our reality and direct us in a more positive, flourishing direction. Well, I take the word purpose to be metaphorical too. The way that I think the universe doesn't have purposes. I don't think of the universe as a human-like being that has intentions or strategies to get toward a particular goal. I think things happen. Some things make it much more likely that other things will happen and each living being can make choices in a sense. The most obvious way in which one has choices is based upon analogy to human thinking. So for example, I had the choice to come and participate in this interview or not. You had the choice to ask one question or another, to ask it one way or another, to hold your silence when I gave a response or to interrupt me. We do things like that all the time that do reverberate. They have consequences afterwards that we hope will be consistent with our intentions and the purposes that we had in mind when we chose to do thing X as opposed to thing Y or to do X in one way rather than another way. Of course we know that our intentions and our purposes don't always predictably lead to the objectives that we're pursuing. Sometimes we accidentally did it the wrong way or the other person received it the wrong way. So the outcome is not what we intended. So there's only a certain degree to which the purpose, even of human beings, of highly thoughtful, well-planning individuals can be described as purposive in the sense of really achieving that end. Each of us, when we choose a way of doing things, is also being affected by the state of our bodies, whether we're feeling sick or healthy, drunk or not drunk, whether we're seeing clearly or not, what assumptions we're making, what demons trouble us, all sorts of irrational stuff, intervenes in our decision making such that even when consciously we're trying to be purposive, there's a lot more going on in shaping our behavior than the purposive or than the intentional. The universe likewise, there are some social theorists who emphasize or claim that objects have agency as well. The fact that even though this table is made up of a halo of molecules, electrons, atoms, nuclei, it's really hard for me to, if I want to lower my arm to this level, it would be really hard for me simply to pass through the table. There's a small probability that I could, that my arm would go straight through the table. There's a small probability given the way that atoms and molecules work, but it's very unlikely and chances are I would have to push extremely hard to move my arm low without going around the table. On that grounds, some argue that tables have agency. This building has agency in a sense that it's cooling the room in a certain way and enabling us to talk without the effects that heat would have on us, but it is having the effects that being a little too cold is having on me. That's shaping how I talk, that's shaping how I move, that's shaping how well I'm able to think, but I think there were some living thinking beings who more or less made some choices that caused the building to do this. It's hard for me to see, to attribute to the building agency even though I know that whatever button the engineer pushed, the building might do something different. Whatever the building was expected to do when the button was pushed might be shaped by geological and atmospheric electrical forces that make it do something different. All of that interconnection of things, those events that intervene between our intention and the outcomes that we generate, those are powerful forces. I don't necessarily call them intentions or purposes. I don't have exactly the vocabulary for that, but the universe is full of stuff like that. Whether there's a single ultimate purpose, I don't know, but I do believe it's fair for human beings like you and me to assign, to rank our goals. For example, if it is your goal to help us all to behave with a recognition that a harm to one of us is a harm to all of us, or a harm to him is also a harm to me, that is a perfectly laudable human purpose. One of the messages of oneness to me might be that each of us must show a degree of humility with regard to the fact that no matter what our intentions are and how well we've thought them out, including the intention to encourage oneness, we must constantly pay attention to the consequences on the other. Some utopian dreams of oneness that have been pursued too dogmatically, whether it's Stalinist socialism or a Polpuk's socialism or Mussolini and Hitler's fascism, some such pursuits of oneness that then dogmatically fail to check back in on whether the harm done to many sufficiently justifies the expectation of comfort once we're whole. It's a good reminder that the one does not answer or serve the same purposes as our utopian dreams of oneness. Sometimes it manifests realities that are beyond what we could think of when we named the one. Another purpose of pursuit of oneness was eugenics, the premise that all of society would be improved if we sterilized certain people whom the eugenicists, the wholeness thinker, thought weren't contributing to the whole properly, or were diminishing the whole, and they actually sterilized people with the premise that the whole was more important than those people. And so I would urge that the pursuit of the one, the practical philosophy and premise that we are one, interpreted according to a certain set of expectations about how we treat each other, even articulated by the wisest person, should be accompanied by a certain humility by that person about what oneness should really mean. And those that seek to build that next world of the one carrying humility in the process and enabling really deep discourse around morals, ethics, philosophies, architectures, designs for maximal flourishing is paramount. I agree. Yeah. And thought is really important. They're these people who think that just because they intuit something, they can go for it, like the Donald Trump philosophy. He doesn't believe that he has to pay attention to people who analyze things carefully, who spend years and years trying to figure out something with the humility that they're not always right, but they're trying to gather as many perspectives as possible and double check their inferences very carefully. There are some people and a large part of the U.S. American population who, like Donald Trump, thinks, oh, well, if a claim feels right for me, then it's the truth. And they'll look at the mistakes that highly educated people and journalists who are trying to be careful sometimes make. And they'll say, you see how those educated people got it wrong?  And they're willing to leap from there to the conclusion that if you analyze things very carefully and with self-scrutiny, you're just as likely to get it wrong as if you go on your gut. And most of the people who say that are not very highly educated. One has to acknowledge that sometimes very highly educated people, people who are very thoughtful, very careful, they check their data, they check their syllogisms, they ask for criticism, and they work really hard to get things right. Sometimes they get it wrong, too. But that doesn't mean that people just based upon their instinct or their gut and their dismissal of those who analyze carefully would be making better decisions. In fact, regularly, people dismiss facts, refuse to double check their syllogisms, and refuse to listen to criticism because from the very start they wanted to do something unkind to somebody else and they want to get away with it and not be scrutinized for it. So in other words, I'm affirming yes, humility, careful thought, careful investigation are a much better way to improve the world than these people who refuse careful thought because they think their gut is just as good. It's also another one of these feels like a marriage of rationality with intuition when you can merge both of those together. I want to pass some time on the focus of yours on the sacred arts of the Black Atlantic project. This is beautiful. I saw your handout that you were delivering and the talk that you were delivering today. Oh, you came to my talk. Well, I was able to listen to it because of reading over the talk yesterday. Oh, yeah. Oh, so you didn't actually attend the talk. I was doing another interview. Oh, I understand. Yeah, it changed a lot. It was all of my talk. It changed a lot. Yeah, because, you know, I rethink things. I'm never satisfied with the last version. I rethought it. I cut stuff. I added stuff and I don't think it was filmed. But that's another thing that Triple H I was hoping to pass along to them is I wouldn't love for the talks to begin being filmed and then put up on the Triple H's YouTube and that type of stuff.  So the talk around the sacred arts of the Black Atlantic project, all of this the story that you have of going out and making these beautiful connections with different priests and then being able to share with other students these incredible artifacts that tell stories and awaken people. Take us down this path. OK, well, the let's see. The foundation of it is that I study religions of African inspiration around the Atlantic perimeter. West African Yoruba religion, West Central African Congo religion, Brazilian candomblé, Haitian voodoo, Cuban and Cuban Santillian ocha. I think I got all of them. OK. And ever since about 1981, I've been researching, trying to figure out and writing about these traditions coming up on 40 years. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And my major mode of study is to read as much as I can, but then to go out and hang out deeply with people, to live with people, eat what they eat, dance what they dance, worship what they worship. You know, just think about the world in their terms by living that life. That's the fundamental shared technique of sociocultural anthropology. There are a few of us who will just sit in a library and analyze a book. A few of us who will examine lives online and think we're painting a world. But most of us value the idea that the foremost learning happens when we're hanging out with people, not just interviewing them, but, you know, whatever comes up, we learn from. The deepest experiential levels. Exactly. And listening to the stuff that people say in the middle of a fight when they're not, you know, when they're not, you know, sort of programming a self representation for the world to see or when they don't feel they're being surveilled, how they act spontaneously, how they under what they take for granted about the shape of the world and the nature of people. That's what we most want to get at, whether we're studying religion or the economics of that society, the political aspects of that society, their kinship or what have you, want to understand what they're taking for granted and how, for historical and learned reasons, it differs from what other people are taking for granted about the world. And so the understanding of how the practitioners of spirit, possession, religions and people who consecrate objects, turning them into gods think has been profoundly transformative to me as someone who grew up middle class in U.S. American society, who regarded things as just technological instruments or tools of our will and who grew up regarding himself as an individual without any fundamental and undeniable obligation to anybody. And with the thought that nobody had any fundamental and undeniable obligation to me either, independence was regarded as a virtue. So in encountering Afro-Atlantic priests, I had experiences like this. My best friend in Brazil, witnessing me sewing a button that had popped off a shirt of mine back in 1987 during my first Brazilian field research. And he said to me, he looked at me, put his hands on his hips and said, you're so self-sufficient and it was not intended as praise. It was a criticism. So these traditions so assume the interconnectedness of people and our interdigitation with forces of the universe, that the ideal of personal autonomy and self-sufficiency that the products of the Enlightenment that are the U.S. American middle class are perceived as odd as they can understand why we're the ones destroying the universe. They can understand why we have very high suicide rates. This is how our world is seen by them. Wow, this really loops us back to the oneness again. Yes. Yeah, wow.  I mean, I love owning beautiful things. I love living in a comfortable house. I love having my own income and enough money in the bank so that I don't need to depend on as many people as a poor person would. On the other hand, I am also aware of fully able to understand and grasp and internalize how the being that is me interdigitates with the being that is the river. The being that is me interdigitates with the being that is the mountain. The being that is me interdigitates with the being that is you. The being that is me interdigitates with and depends on the being that this is built, that is this building. I can, I can think that way too. And I can feel it. Yeah. And one of the sources and embodiments of that feeling are the sacred, the consecrated objects and embodied gods that have been given to me by the priests of Haitian voodoo of Brazilian candombla of West African Yoruba religion and Cuban Santiria. And I have developed a collection of sacred arts that I began collecting back in 1982 at my first trip during my first trip to Nigeria, beautiful objects that embody the spirit and the thinking and the taking, takens for granted of people in these religious traditions. And over the last maybe 15 or so years, I have been acquiring gods. The priests who have worked with me, even though I'm not fully initiated, have come to believe that I would benefit from and I would take good care of gods that they have made for me. And I have done so. They give them to me and I take very, very good care of them. The ones that like candles and perfume. I light candles for and give perfume on a daily or almost daily basis to the goddess of the river Ogu, whose name is Yemajia. I light her candle virtually every day. I ring her bell. Oh, and the Haitian gods, I salute the way they like with the rattles that correspond to their service. And usually that rattle called the asa belongs to the highest rank of initiate in the tradition of Haitian voodoo. But the priestess regarded me as fit to receive it. So I salute the gods as they wish to be saluted. And you follow these rituals to their sacred. Their most sacred practices that then connect you to the deepest roots of who they are and what they especially with the interdigitation of all. Yeah. And each of these traditions conceives of what we're interdigitated with slightly differently. But I'm trying my best to learn from each form of interdigitation. And I take it very seriously. I have not done the most sacred things and that has undergone full initiation because the enlightenment itself in me and I'm a third child too finds subordination very difficult. It's not easy for me to absolutely submit in ways that are required by the fullest initiation. But but I am very conscientiously attentive to the needs of these gods. I with regard to religious matters, I obey the priests. If they express subtle hints, they say, well, maybe you know, maybe you shouldn't do it that way. Or they laugh at me when I do it a certain way. Like I was, you know, one time the last time my priestess friend from Haitian voodoo was leading a sacred ceremony on behalf of my gods for a large group of people.  And as she shook the ass on saluting the gods and leading the ceremony, I would shake mine in exactly the same way. But then she she said in my in my she said to the other priests who were, you know, performing the ritual with us after the first part of it or the second part ended. She she said, oh, my torii poin asson maturi has taken the asson. And she was laughing at me, but I think implying, wait, you're doing something that's beyond your rank. You shouldn't be doing that. So I said, oh, and so I took me in.  But yeah, so I'm I am I'm a person of both worlds. I'm a person of Afro-Atlantic religions. I'm a person of the Western Academy and end of the Western middle class. And and so what you brought up was the sacred art. I that would be the prime rubric for an art historian. But I'm too humble to take on the title of expert on African art, per se, because there are people who do this with such, such excellence. I'm an anthropologist trying to understand the web of relationships that people create through these objects. And I'm trying my best to learn how Africanist art historians understand them as well. I admire what they do, but sometimes they look back at me and they say, no, you're doing the right thing. We want to do what you're doing. But they don't realize how much they know and how much I would like to grasp. But, you know, the ability to describe the differences among colors, to notice the textures, to examine the the historical precedents in Rococo style, as opposed to let's see what's neoclassical style. I wish I could grasp the history well enough because I want to know not only the present nature of these objects, but the history of form that contributed to them and why my best priestess friend chose that form as opposed to other forms. I would like to be able to name why I find her Paquet Kongo, the embodiments of the gods in Haitian tradition, why I find them so deeply beautiful. But I don't find everybody else's Paquet Kongo deeply beautiful. And I would like to understand historically what I'm responding to in the form that she gives to the gods. Yes, what is it about these sacred arts from these are very different diverse regions, Nigeria, Brazil, the Caribbean. And Cuba. Yes.  And that when you look at sacred arts from these different diverse places, there's different historical purposes for these sacred arts through their lineages. Then there's what the actual sacred art itself is. Yes, that's right. And then the way the ritual that they do with it. And then what is that unlocking? What is that unleashing with their spirit? And then what is it that the students that you get to bring into that experience, what do they awaken to? Good. Thank you for asking me that question. OK, so first of all, these traditions are united historically by the fact of the Atlantic slave trade from the late 15th century until the end of the last third of the 19th century. Western Europeans traded in huge numbers of captive Africans, bringing them to the new world above all to produce sugar more cheaply than free labor could have produced it, but also to produce cotton and rice to generate enormous profits, not only for the European monarchies and nation states that taxed the slave trade, but for the the planters in the Americas who purchased those enslaved people and drove them often to their deaths for the benefit of the planters. Subsequently, free African diaspora people traveled back and forth between, on the one hand, Cuba and Brazil, on the other hand, West Africa. And these populations interacted with Europeans, they interacted with Native Americans, and in each of these places a religious formation came about that combined their shared Western African premises in different ways and combined them with different European traditions and combined them with different Native American traditions, and in some cases combined them with different Asian traditions, be they Indian tradition or Chinese tradition, because in different parts of Western Africa and the African diaspora, we interacted with Chinese people and Indians as well, or at least Western images of Indians. Each of these traditions makes a somewhat different set of assumptions about the world, a somewhat different set of assumptions about what kind of objects best embody the forces that penetrate us and overlap within us, and each of them is structured by a different kind of mythology. So, Brazilian con nombre is highly structured by a hierarchy of relative purity in imitation of what's supposed to be an African original. Haitian voodoo is divided between largely two ritual modalities, one focused on royalty that looks almost equally African and European, and one focused on the adoration of and working with rebel slave spirits. One set of spirits is cool and you can pray to them and they'll more or less do what you ask if you're patient enough. The other spirits are hot and fiery and angry and defensive and are more likely to do immediately what you ask as long and be very effective at doing so. The Cuban tradition is similarly divided between, well, much more, let's see, it dichotomizes West African traditions from West Central African traditions, representing one as more royal, more divine, more beneficent, and one as working with forces that are not as beneficent, one's more related to the dead, one's more related, easier to assign elements of mercenary behavior. So, the moral configurations in these places are somewhat different. In West African Yoruba religion there's an emphasis on the difference between cool gods and hot gods. All of them can be equally malevolent or beneficent. They're just forces in the universe. They handle properly, respect it properly, they generate good for us, handle improperly, they can generate bad for us. So there's an emphasis on, in all of these traditions, there's an emphasis on balancing the forces that are shaping us. It did sound very much like a yin and yang. Exactly, it's very, very similar, which is why one of the reasons that Chinese ritual authorities and African ritual authorities got along so well in China and the Africans embraced Buddha, the Buddha and Guan Yin, and also Guan Gong, who's a god of the, and saint of the martial arts in China. Anyhow, so each of these is an idiom of awakening and inspiration about the wholeness of the universe, but they name the particular roots a bit differently and alert us to different kinds of connection in the world. But I always imagine that the thing that unites them is the ocean. Yes, yes. There's a repeated, very important theme of the ocean and its ambivalent modalities. And so I always come back to the goddess Yemaja or Yemaya. In the Cuban and Brazilian tradition, she's regarded as the goddess of the sea. In the Nigerian tradition, she's regarded as the goddess of a river, but it's the river, among all the rivers in Nigeria that flows most directly to the sea, and her altars contain a lot of marine seashells. So the ocean that unites us all is for me an important touchstone and metaphor of the wholeness that these polytheistic traditions presuppose. And so that speaks to the wholeness of the universe that you're very concerned about too. I love how within the study of sacred arts from no matter really where on the planet we study the sacred arts, thematically such a similarity around the ocean, around the one, and then whatever ways of archetypally, mythologically describing these forces, elements, powers, it's just so gorgeous, the story that is being told about... But you notice it seems to me that Western Christian, that the Abrahamic religions focus much more on the sky than the sea. And one might also observe that the Abrahamic religions are the ones that have terrorized the rest of us the most. The material logic of the ocean is very different from the material logic of our hierarchical relationship with the sky. One tends to be called a father and one tends to be called a mother. They're really different logics and there is no population of people more than Christians and Muslims who have classified and Jewish people or Hebrews who have classified the gods of other people as demons. It needed being wiped out. And no populations more than Christians and Muslims have conquered land all over the planet with the intention of dominating those populations and eliminating their gods. Which also includes regularly the project of enslaving other people, murdering them and taking their land based upon the fact that they worship another set of gods. And there has been no greater victim of the Abrahamic religions than Africa. So Africa has a special lesson for us and the religions of the enslaved have a special lesson for us about the wrong way to pursue the one. About the very unkind results of monotheism. Wow, what a very profound way to synthesize what has been happening here on our planet for the longest time and for us to be able to awaken to where we want to go in the future. Ashe. Ashe. Amen. Yeah. Thank you very much for joining us on the show everyone. We greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on that episode. Let us know what you're thinking. Check out all the links in the bio below to Randy's work. Check that out. Support him please. Support the American Anthropological Association as well. You can find their links in the bio and you can support us as well on the show. And go and build the future everyone. Manifest your dreams into the world. We love you very much. Thank you for tuning in. We will see you soon. Can I plug something? Randy's plug? If your institution might be interested in hosting an exhibition called Spirited Things, Sacred Arts of the Black Atlantic, which I have curated to illustrate some of these points, please contact International Arts and Artists in Washington D.C. And they can arrange to have the exhibition visit your institution.