Welcome to Jenkins documentation office hours. It's the 29th of November. Topics that I had on the agenda include the 323 that the 2.323 change log status report on the site being broke site generation being broken for Jenkins.io triage team status Jenkins 2.319.1 upgrade guide and change log. And then a topic we've deferred for two weeks now, high level discussion on the opening content of managing and configuring Jenkins. Hi, Kristen. Hey, how's it going? Just great. So any, let's see, we've got, or I guess any topics you want to add to the agenda Kristen or Meg. Nope. I don't think I can. I can't think of any. Okay, cool. So, Okay, if we start, make anything from you. Yep. Okay, let's start in on the first thing then let's review that change log so. All right, so here's what we've got. Okay, a developer item. Oh, and so this means we've got. So we take notes, work, have to be done changes to be done. After the release. And this was move developer topic to end of changeless of change log. Okay. So we've got run this stream no longer eagerly loads all build records. I'm not sure that's actually a developer topic. Because eagerly loading all build records is disastrous for performance. Kristen should we appeal that one and say no we don't think this is developer this is. Yes, I would. Yeah, I think this is a performance problem. Okay, so I'm going to go let's go to core and find it. Okay, PR. And here. Okay, we'll just borrow this one for now. Okay. See and then Jesse says. Oh no it was all like that mentioned it on. It's like a saying that performance so maybe that's a sign. Okay good so you so the two of you are okay if we take this one out of developer and call it just a bug. Yes. All right, great. Okay, that's that solves that one good. Okay. I think J and our politics from three dot 1111 to three dot one dot 11 to three dot one dot 12 typically do you want to leave the text the same for that other one. Oh good question for me. I mean it's so whoops, you're right now that it's that I mean I can think about it and say yeah that probably helps performance but if we're leaving it for performance that's kind of a wonky way to say it. Yeah, so if we said. Okay then improve performance by delaying by lazy loading of build records. Yes I'd say yeah I think lazy loading is a good term there. And we probably don't need to then mention run less stream, because that does seem very particular. Yeah how about how about like this so that if he if he's concerned we say. Okay, like that. So what performance is that pipeline performance is it also freestyle is it build performance is that no it's probably. Yeah, I would guess it's UI rendering right because it's anybody that uses a this run this stream method. And I don't know if anybody actually uses it so I can't, I can't constantly say which part of the code could be positively affected. So the two of you are okay with that as a rephrasing. All right, cool. All right, good. Okay, so then, next one 5948. This is a library bump, I think we should just make it skip users won't know what to do with it. Right. Next cut jeb 2324 customizable header and this one really is a developer one isn't it says there's a new extension point as interface that allows you to just render a header, and a default implementation. It's an RFE is that. Yeah, but it's following it up. It is an RFE in the sense but for me it's an RFE that's only interesting to a developer. Okay. But I'm open to it certainly is an RFE it absolutely is. Okay, and actually that's a good one we ought to include a link to the jet. Afterwards, add link to jeb 235 in the RFE for extension, the header extension. Okay. Back to the question should this be. Should we call this developer there at this point there isn't anything a user will see different with it. It's just the addition of an API. Okay. That API documented somewhere. It is in this in this Jenkins enhancement proposal and we'll provide a link in the, in the, in the reference section will provide a link. The documentation of the other header stuff been updated for this or that's a really good point. There isn't other header stuff to update that's okay. This is adding something that didn't exist. What was happening was cloud bees was having to do sort of what might you call it patches after the fact. Okay. And this is a way of allowing a plug in to reply to do something better so that they don't have to do patches to Jenkins core code every time they ship. Cool. Is there any objection to me making that a developer. Oh, it is it is flagged as developer. Oh, cool. All right so we just need to market correctly here and then move it to the end. And that one is 5909 as developer and move to the end. Okay, good. All right. Next then. J cask support for managing log recorders. Okay, this one needs as full stop on the end of the line. Oh, does this one need a full stop on the end of the line. Yes, it does. Okay. Sorry, just a minute back here. Edit. Then this one was 4538. Let's look at how long live that pull request is. And it is. Here we go. Add there we go managing log records okay and I for one I'm delighted with this because I really need that in mind. Okay, anything any other change there. 5926 add path the form elements giving stable selectors for UI test. I'm going to stop. Okay, then. Okay update remoting from 411.1 to 4.11.2 to fix code signing. Usually when we've done remoting upgrades updates like this. We've included a link to the change log as a reference. Okay. This one doesn't have a change log so maybe the answer there is add a change log for remoting 4.11.2 and link to it. Luckily it doesn't sound like that's a very big problem right like it's just maybe it just sounds like someone didn't sign there for something else but right this this actually is not a code change at all. And all this is is when we delivered 4.11.1 from a from a security development path and the security development path didn't go through the usual code signing process. Okay. So what Daniel did is just created a 4.11.2 that is 4.11.1 with signed code. Yeah, there you go. All right, and view as plain text from the polling log was behind the top bar view as plain text shows correctly in the polling log page needs a hard stop but other than that. Okay, any concerns or complaints there. Does that mean the text view is whatever that text is what wasn't displaying correctly. Or it does yeah hang on I'll show you I'll show you what he's fixed. So the I think his screenshot has a foreign and after. So no here's the here's the after you see this blue text on the right hand side where it says view as plain text. Before his change. It was hidden. It was partially obscured by the gray bar that's above it. Exactly what it says it is. Yeah, so here's the, here's the, here's the example. Notice that view as plain text that you cannot see. Yeah, because it is completely hidden by the, you know, it's yes, if you're really careful you could click it really careful. Yeah. Get right on the just the right pixel. Exactly. And I was frightened by it and thought oh no is this a new thing introduced by UI changes but I checked and it has been there at least for the last three long term support releases so. Okay, this is not a new bug. Let's see and did I get that full stop entered onto the line yes okay good. So, any, any other changes there and then other things. I think that looks good. How about we generate the change log then might not wait a sec. I thought there was a way to run. Oh no this is Jenkins that I oh sorry. We have to go to core. We have to do some sort of actions. And here change log drafter we say run the workflow now. Great. Okay, so it's done. Anything else on that change log. All right, next topic then broken Jenkins I'll build. So we've got a problem with the extensions indexer discus. So the extensions indexer indexer script uses more disk than our agents have by default. So that means over 25 gigabytes by that job. And that's because it downloads the source code for every plug in every Jenkins plug in, and need to increase the disk disk space or find another machine or dedicate an agent to that task. Nothing I think for us to do I worked on it today Daniel Beck helped with the investigation and I'll ask Damian to to help guide it. Any questions been asked already. Any questions there. Nope. Okay triage team. So, Meg I think we need to have you accept the invitation just a minute let me double check to be sure that you haven't already accepted it. I have not seen the invitation so no. Well there's a good reason for us to do this then so I may need to resend the invitation. Let's look at teams here. And we look for triage, because dirage had also not accepted yet. So Kristen is in the team. Oh legs in the team and I am. And there are now where do we see. Oh here it is to pending. Okay so, so you have not received an invitation email mag. I think I just had to go to mine, not to the cloudies. Yeah that worries me that. So, could you log into your GitHub account and double check where your emails going. Yes, that's exactly what I was proposing. And if you'd like, we can have you share your screen and then we'll Kristen and I will coach you as you go through clicking. Oh, okay. So I just do that here. Yeah if you don't mind. And then it'll probably much faster than us guessing what you're seeing. Right. I think security is set up so you can share yes it is. So I should go back and share. Let's see. And. Okay now that's good where now we need to find out where do you find invitations. Where does GitHub. Oh my invitations. Oh cool. Okay. So, Meg, on your top on your URL or URL bar. Uh huh. Do github.com slash org or g or or gs. Okay I was thinking my email. No, yeah, just where do I want to see I see I see your GitHub. And so on the end that URL bar the stack overflow people say open up github.com slash or gs so orgs. Okay. Okay. slash Jenkins dash infra slash invitation. Invitation singular. Singular. Try that. Okay. This is what stack overflow says we'll see if it works. Hey, nice. Nice. Now who would have ever guessed that was the way to go. Okay. Interesting. Okay so now you have to know you've been invited and go and see. I've never received an email. That's a different problem. Right. So, so that that I agree it's that's a problem, but it's a different problem. So now the question is, does it show up for me that you have, have joined the triage team, or is there still something more we have to do. You are now a member of the triage. Nice. Yeah. I think we added her because I was like, I bet we're going to have to like add another like do it again like send another email or something. Right. So, so okay so just a minute now. Meg joined live during the session by opening because we'll need the same thing for dirage so I've pasted that URL into the notes and it was Jenkins dash infra. Perfect. Okay. And yeah my email set for my personal. Yeah so you should you should have received it. I don't know maybe it went into your spam who knows I've been checking spam because stuff's been going into I haven't seen it but who knows. Weird. Well, glad that welcome to the team. That's great. That's great. So this means I should theoretically get notification when new things come up that need to be triaged. Oh that's a good question what does it mean if I remember right what the triage team permissions mean is, let's see. I think you notified right like if you do if the reviewers allowed to do triage as a review of pull requests and issues. I don't know, however, if you're able to so here, I'm going to create a new issue and let's see if the two of you get notified. Okay. No that didn't help. Let's do it this way. Jenkins. So issues. And new issue. This is what something we want to do we want to say how about something about a wiki migration. We don't have an issue yet for incorporating jcask into the managed Jenkins. Oh good. Okay. I started to do too many issues for security says then I didn't do any for managing so very good. All right. The Jenkins config configuration is code. Seriously, I cannot spell that is embarrassing. Fingers get it done. Okay, so, again, needs introductory documentation. In manage Jenkins with links to detail documentation. In the, and it's not a plugin. Whoops. Oh no it is a plugin in the plug. Okay, good. So now if this works. Let's have, well actually make I'm going to paste this into the chat into the zoom chat. I'm going to try opening this and share your screen with this and let's take a look at it. And see what, what you can do as a member of the triage team. So you'll need to share your screen. Okay. And then I will confess that I have not logged in. Oh, you haven't logged in to get up on my chrome chrome just on Firefox. Oh, you can bring up Firefox. That's, we'll see either screen. Well, that's what, yes, that's when I only my. Okay, let's go back and try. We select select all but that does not copy all control C. Okay, let's try this again. There we go. And that works been really flaky all weekend again. Interesting. Well, we can always switch and see if Kristen could do it for us and then see what her her for me. That's interesting. It's opening Atlassian. Okay, so that's different. This is trying to open wants me to log into Confluence. You shouldn't need to. This is doing an Atlassian log in that shouldn't be needed at all. So, so paste your, your HTTP URL or your GitHub URL into that again. I mean the same one or. Yeah, github.com. Yeah, that thing. Yeah. Okay, there. All right, so now what feature what things do you get that you didn't have before. Can you. Oh, yeah, click on labels. I mean, then I say I got an email. You can assign it, you could assign it. So for instance, a Sinai is there. You could assign it to me. And you can label it. Ah, nice. Can I sign it to myself. Sure. Absolutely. Since I started writing it and then discovered that it was more complicated than I thought. Material I could steal wasn't needed some work. I did say like I just checked my email and I did get notification about it. So, or I don't know if I'm, it's just because I'm already on chicken. It's like, it sends me everything anyway, but we'll see. Okay, now I must be able to add. Oh, there we go. And now the other thing that you can do is that right below that label selection, there is also a link this to a link this to a pull request. So when you're ready to submit a pull request, you could, if you mention it, this thing by a number in the comment, you know, in your description is number 4735. It will link it automatically otherwise you could come here and link it yourself. And then when you, when the request is merged and the bug, the issue is automatically closed. Okay. Great. Excellent victory triage team works. Thank you. Okay, we can I steal back screen sharing now. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, and you've seen enough of my screen I assume. Yeah, and I, I hope you can now see mine. And here it is. There we go. Okay. Okay, good. All right. So we need to have dirage accept the invitation as well at that same URL. Okay, next topic was the 2.319.1 upgrade guide and there's nothing that I need to report other than a new, a new build is available. That includes several more changes. And Mark will send comments to the developer list. Inviting other people to test it. Still on track to release on Wednesday. Okay, Meg, we got the topic, high level discussion of the opening. All right. What would you like to talk to it? Okay, well first, I wanted to say, um, actually, maybe I should go back and share screen and that's. Actually, why don't you do it? Why don't you go to go to Jenkins? I was going to say, look at, let's look at what's there. Okay, I can do that. Everybody else agrees that it's kind of unacceptable. Okay. Okay. So you want to see Jenkins.io and you want to see manage Jenkins. Yeah, just the madman or managing. Managing Jenkins. Okay, man. All right, so this one. All right, got it. Okay, here we are. And I find this sort of content free. Now, if you go into the first section configuring the system. We get blank. Okay, now go to the, there is a PR that was submitted. More than a year ago. Okay. And that's this right here from John, the UI changes. So it does not reflect those. It's still the old laundry list thing that we have under managing Jenkins sort of. So this was him copying. Oh, he was copying the content from the wiki page or from, yeah, I think this was a wiki migration content created as recommended on this issue. Just a minute. Oh no, this was, this was, we just, we gave an outline and Jonathan did it. Okay. So make back to your, how would you like to, how would you like to. What I would like to do is I would like to under managing Jenkins describe describe briefly that it is, it has been modernized in the tiles and all this, and go through those blocks that are now on there. And with a one or two line description of each one, and then link from there into subsequent most of them are here. I don't know if there are any that aren't have each, like, so from there, from there we get a link into configuring the system, and, which actually should be global configuration I think now. So, when that we would tell it you know you can do all the stuff there and go here for details, and then in global configuration, it would step through all those fields, and tell how you fill them out and what the ramifications are and links where appropriate. So the, I like that. Just to be sure I'm understanding your, your, the picture it for me was managing Jenkins gets much of its inspiration from this page here the manage Jenkins pages that I understand. Now there are a number of things which are outside of the scope of this page like features controlled with system properties but those we would retain. But are you thinking we would start with the first this first this top level page or the top level plus this one that describes hey here's the UI. There's a configure system global tool configuration manage plugins. Is that what it's sort of sort of what you're saying that sort of now the one in general because I think that's the first place people are going to go. So one of the properties is one that a little bit and then okay there's a relationship there's a system administration section to. There is sort of, you know, I think it might be a little bit arbitrary what is administration and what is managing. Yeah, this has a lot of things that are not on the managing Jenkins screen so one thought. I'm not sure I've seen any place where we just tell them how you start Jenkins up and what the system properties are and how you do those. It may be someplace but you will so by start do you mean initially administer it or do you mean when you want to initial the command line the Java dot jar command line where you put the system properties. Is there any place where we tell them how to do that. There is there's this thing here which is the war files instructions and says, download it and run it with this command. But are you talking about all the flags that are possible like do we have the flags documented anywhere. Like all the different options. Is that what you're talking about for the running with a war file. Oh, there's there's all sorts of places where you see in the docs that if you're doing this you can add this command line. But even there we tell them to run it but we don't tell them that would be a nice place to say you can add a lot of options that control how this runs and link them off to where it's discussed. I feel like we had that on the wiki. As bad as it sounds you know this is like I feel like that somewhere on the wiki but I'm not sure if it's something that we did migrate over maybe. Well let's let's let's look for. No, I don't see anything here in the search. So I was assuming there would be a search a searchable thing but this is a completely different topic so yeah so I think you've got a good point mag. I think the idea being, let's go back there so the idea was here, or in the installing either is great or installing on more, we may want someplace to link them to here are all the, or here's how you discover the command line arguments that are available in your Jenkins war file right, and here's the documentation for the ones in a specific version of Jenkins. The HTTP port option for instance is one of those and there are many others. Right. Right as I was like I swear I've had to look them up before and I think it took me to the wiki, which is why it's like I think we had in the wiki, but I'm not sure that it's. Oh, there. Yeah, that's at least something. So here is well and let's see where is this oh so this is in the installing Jenkins book Jenkins parameters are installing Jenkins section chapter, and it lists the networking parameters. There are various parameters and properties. Yeah now. I'm not sure I would call this anything I'd be proud to send a novice to but it, it certainly is attempting to describe it. Now, would this meet your need mag of. That's a good question. Okay, what is in under managing Jenkins. What about system properties. Oh this talks about very special trap doors that people can use to disable this or that feature. That looks to me like we've got the split that looks like that could move into system administration. Am I do you. Yeah, no, no objection for me the challenges wherever you move it we risk breaking hyperlinks from other places. Right. I would be prone to say, let's leave it here and move it to the bottom. Okay, move it down the priority list move it down. Yeah. And, and then for the PR now. One thing is I could do one PR that does the index file and links to other files that are already there. And call that done and close it, merge it, and then go in and do other files, you know do other PRs for the other files that we add. The alternative is to do stub files for everything we want to reference. Yeah, and I'd rather I think it gets messy I think it'd be dead or off to have get the index file done, but do you agree. I think I think the first method you're proposed is healthier for us because stub files, like, like this one live for a very long time without getting content. Right, much better do something all the way down get it merged and go to the next thing. Right. And I can, and I can, I think I can structure it in such a way that everybody walk through that managing Jenkins. Screen at the hand you can say we can I can give them a short paragraph or something about the system properties and what they know those and these are described here. Yes. And I might at that point also link them back to the piece that's an install because if I'm looking for that information. The we're not going to get it completely together but we can at least link back and forth between it. And I might go into that install list also and give them a link here say there are others that you can use for more sophisticated uses and go here. I mean, having having the war files thing here. Link to a place that says for more details of command line arguments, see this in this location. Yeah, make sense in there where you, where it has the initial settings. Yeah, you said initial settings. There this one. Yeah, very nice thing. Yeah. There's a file to there and then from here we can say there are, you know, other things you can do down the way and those are discussed over in that other file. Great. And, and then a separate separate question that I'm not going to buy this week is how complete that other list how long it's been since that thing's been updated. You mean this list, or someone know that that one maybe is more I might trust more than the one under managing Jenkins. So by list here you mean these topics, Jenkins features controlled with system properties. Oh, that one actually that's maintained by Daniel back it's actually really, okay, reasonably current. Okay, that's good. It's it Daniel's good to know. Okay, yeah when when Daniel when Daniel has to insert a trap door. He will. What's an example of one of the escape hatches that we just had it was something about remote. Yeah, here it is. This is one. So this one was first added in Jenkins LTS 2.303.3. Escape hatch. Yes, that's, that's a fun label. It's a escape hatch instead of an escape. I like that. Actually, this is a great one for our, our Torah history, it should be the scapegoat. Yeah, exactly. Oh, sorry. But, but escape hatch. Okay. Yeah, so that's I've not seen that one before that's that's really cute. This guy I'm maybe instead of this being Jenkins features should it be hidden features. I mean you're on Jenkins IO do I need in the title of a subsection. Yeah, I think I think he brought that over intentionally, but it's a good question we could certainly ask it because it might be that it's really just features features controlled by system properties yeah I don't think that making it hidden features. See, but many of them are not hidden. For instance, the let's see what's a what's an example of I could I could find you several places the introductory text just says they're all kind of it applies that they're all hidden. Yeah, and so that may be right I just maybe this because it's the quotes on it you know the quote unquote hidden. Well, I think you know where it's like it's not really default or like not really you're probably don't need to use it, but you can. Yeah, yeah, that's a good, you've got a good point Maggie really does say that they are hidden features so maybe the better phrasing here would be hidden features control the system properties. Yeah. Hey, can any of these be enabled without using the system properties. I mean what's the technical definition of hidden that they're not on the UI. So, and yes, there I'm sure in this list. There's at least one thing that also has a UI representation somewhere. Yeah I swear I saw one that actually referenced flitter. So like, or you know, like it was maybe a UI thing so there's the, the why you I debug. Yeah, I tweak tweak the URL I don't know if that the footer URL. Yeah, I don't know. That's fun. Good, good question. I could say something these things are set by system properties and most of them are not on the UI or something like that just really mouth it a little bit. Well, and I think, I think this is a fair description, they are hidden in that sense so I wouldn't wouldn't change it but I think you've got a good point. Maybe this should be just hidden features. And then maybe CLI rather than being Jenkins CLI should be command line interface without the word Jenkins starting it. Yeah, right. Obviously we're in context of a chapter managing Jenkins. Yeah, good insight. Okay. And then I don't know what the status is of securing Jenkins that PR still sitting there. And I think Daniel's right Daniel's just been booked and so I think we just let it let it ride there and we may want to poke and say hey, anything more we need to do. Is there anything that we can help you with like for like, other reviews stuff. I mean, clearly like no one is saying like, can't help with it like just like a reread. Okay, like a read through to say like, oh, I didn't understand this one thing because it's super. Yeah, I'm not as familiar with it. Okay, I'll look at it very useful because I know sometimes at least for me like when I'm getting into it like it everything makes sense, but but it might not make sense to someone else. You know, you're separate set of eyes. Yeah, I imagine one thing although Daniel's pretty good. Right. That would, you know, it would be really good for somebody who hasn't dug into this to make sure that. Okay, cool. Yeah, that would be wonderful. And now this one anywhere on anything with logic requested changes. Have you made those changes. Oh, Oh, yes you have, you have because you resolve them. Okay, so it shows that I think I I think you've committed this fix these changes right because they're listed as resolved. Uh huh. So I think what we want to do is just request a new review from him. Okay Kristen offer to suggestion. Yeah, I'm sure that let's see that make I will go in this evening and make sure that every all the comment and all of them have been. Yeah, it's been like, I sort of for a while I was checking every two days and nothing was happening and I decided to add storm it and move on. So when after you've confirmed it just click this request, we request review over here on the right hand side. I'm going to go back up to to Vodek because the little icon here says he's asked for changes. Once you've made the changes the way you trigger and say, I want you to look at it again as you click this, this thing to say review it again. I did not know how to do that. Perfect. Yeah, so that. Okay, yeah, because it may be that Daniel is thinking about exam maybe hammered out as bad as Daniel is that if I like approved it then we can go ahead, you know, and you can certainly ask that question. Right, you can ask that question. Because then I've got some other PRs that we can't touch till we get this thing there because it's such a BMS. Yes, and Kristen this is much larger than a PR should be. Oh it's all good. Sometimes things spiral out of control I totally get it and then it's like especially we're certain things is like well I need this piece before I can do this. And then all ends up coming together I totally I totally get how things can grow. Yeah when you're moving around a bunch of files there's just I have never found a way to do it with small PRs. Yeah, so. Okay, I think that does it for me I know I can so I can go off and I will get some work done on that this week and hopefully a lot of work so that we're ready to move forward. Great. Excellent. Okay. Great discussion. You had the question on Jenkins configuration as code documentation. And I think I got an answer from Tim Jacome. So, Tim recommended. He's one of the maintainers of that plugin recommends an intro in on www.Jenkins.io, but details in the plugin. I like that because there's a lot of details and we don't want to try to keep those up in the docs. Right well and, and, and you have a set keeping the docs close to the code seems like it's more likely to be up to date. Then if we allow them become separated to different repositories. I'm not making him directly, because what I have, I, I worked a little bit with the cloud bees cask. But I don't see anything here on how I get started for cloud bees you can set it you know you can have a master or a controller, and you install this and it makes your bundles, and you have all your files and then you can go in and start editing those. I don't know if I can do that, or if I have to start with a blank file and fill in all the information you start with a blank file. Yeah, you know. And there and nothing about getting this and then checking it into your SCM and all I, I have not found that any place. It might be someplace but and that's what I think belongs in the intro in the main docs. Yeah, this, this thing that the dirage did gives you that kind of introduction to it information right well it, it's a five minute or a two minute video clip that says, Hey, this is how you do this, watch me do it. And the hope was it will inspire people. Oh okay it's not that hard I can do it. And start with that maybe expand it and put pros around it and we'll and we'll call that video. Right. And. Yeah what I'd been doing. Sorry, Kristen you had a comment. Oh no I was just saying like I think that market said the videos were good for getting people to stay on the pages and review stuff so I'm glad we have a video of that. Well, and, and we've been using that technique now with with some that Darren had done, Darren Pope had done some videos and we just embed his videos he's given us permission says hey if I post it publicly you are welcome to embed it on the, on the site and so we've done that with where will I find it. I know there's one in node in managing nodes. There we go yeah this one. Perfect. And, and, and really, at least for me I find that quite attractive. It's oh yeah here's a video I can click it or if I'm not a video type. The words are right below it. Yes. Great. And, or if I watch the video and get the idea, I'm going to some of this stuff that's only video. So then I'm going back to the video and I'm sitting here with a piece of paper having to write down these long lines. Yep, after I find the right spot and get it paused at the right time so I can read it. Yes. All right. The streets for the week. Great. Excellent. So the interest on the modernizing a plug in blog post. Jean Marc Mison from cloud bees is adopt it has adopted a plug in and use the rough draft the workshop material to guide him. And so he's willing to review and we've got several other new adopters. We've just got somebody who offered to adopt the role strategy plug in. And so we're, we're, we're making progress much better progress than we have in the past on getting people to adopt plugins. Okay. Having that tutorial out there probably makes it a more scary thing to do. Yes, that are that are the, the, yeah, I hope so. And if not, if nothing else just the noise about adopting plugins tends to make people think oh maybe I should adopt a plug in. Right. Would it help to get like a little quote from him about like now that you know I've talked to the plug in and it's not scary like something along those lines of just. Yeah, well and actually Jean Marc is going to is writing a blog post. Oh perfect okay good because I was like that but also maybe be a thing where maybe people are nervous about it because it does feel like a huge responsibility right like especially some of the some of them or or it feels it has a lot of downloads I mean we're not talking at the level of you know some like the like some of the get plug in or anything like that but yeah some of them just it does kind of like oh my goodness these people are relying on this. I'm releasing it sounds a little bit audacious I mean who am I to adopt a plug right exactly so it'd be nice to have a oh look you know I went through the process it's like it's not intimidating it's just it's I like that I can help make things like deal and some positive from a recent adopter so well and you know I gotta check but on the Jenkins IO page we talked about getting started with contributing and we tell them about the things that are out there for you know a first timer, but we never tell them what to do beyond that. Once you get your feet wet, and I would think adopting a plug in unless you unless you had a specific feature that you were working on or something, but then adopting a plug in would be a good second step for some people. Right. And, and that's a good what what's next for me, as soon as we have a series of small steps like this, what's next becomes easier for people to identify oh I've done that I've done that but I haven't done that what what's that about. Yeah, good. Right. And there I would put in I mean some of the stuff that I've been doing. Look through the main Jenkins IO documentation and look for sections that don't have content. Right, right. That would be another direction you know after you do getting things there's multiple directions for you. So, cool. Very good. All right. So, so still, still, I'm behind on this one but continuing so just I have to I have to tout it. Mark adopted the priority sorter plug in and fixed a real bug. I know I know it seriously. It's not just well I, I realized, okay this was one of those satisfy your own own interests. I realized reading this reading a bug report that scared me I thought oh dear we've got a new a new breaking film, investigated oh no it's been there for a while, then realized that's weird why would it be broken like this and then spent hours doing partitioning and binary search to find what was and still don't understand the details this was really a wildly cool investigation I've never had a bug that perverse that I had to chase. Why html class could possibly affect. Java serialization. I have no idea what. Exactly. Why can that possibly be doing what yes. I have no concept of it, but Tim Jacob said he'll eventually take a look at it see if he can understand what's going on I, I threw up my hands and said that's weird. I know how to fix this by removing some text. Yes. Exactly. All right, I think we're set for our session any other topics for today. I'm good. You too. Thank you make thank you Kristen, both of you have a great time. Thank you. You too. See you next week. Bye bye.


Throughout the course of the 2020 election cycle, MSNBC has repeatedly brought on guests who have smeared Bernie Sanders or his supporters or both.  He makes my skin crawl. And now here's what an MSNBC panelist said about Bernie Sanders supporters. There's a ceiling. There is nowhere to go, but there is no up to go. I actually overheard someone saying that I thought was an interesting point that basically at this point, if you are still supporting Sanders as opposed to Warren, it's kind of showing your sexism because she has more detailed plans and her plans have evolved. I thought it was an interesting point and I think there may be something to it. I agree with all that. That was disgusting. That was nothing more than a brazen smear. And you know, it's not Elizabeth Warren's responsibility to condemn this. She can't possibly condemn everything, but it would be much appreciated if she actually did the right thing and condemned this sort of rhetoric, condemned this sort of behavior, a smear at her behest. She should say, you know what? I don't want your support. I condemn what she said there because I know that Bernie Sanders supporters have their reasons for supporting him over me and this type of rhetoric is unacceptable. This has got her politics, we're better than this. Will Elizabeth Warren condemn this? Probably not. But I would absolutely love it if she did because this is downright morally reprehensible. And before I get to the substance, not that there was much, but think about this, Fox News has probably done less damage to Bernie than MSNBC because when Fox News smears Bernie Sanders as a communist or a socialist, it holds less weight because they are the right wing Republican Party propaganda arm. However, when MSNBC does it, which has a lot of left-leaning Democratic Party voting viewers, well, that actually holds more weight. So when they see someone say, you know what, if you're supporting Bernie over Warren, it's probably because you're sexist. Then maybe they're thinking, you know what, I don't want to perpetuate sexism. So maybe I should back Warren over Bernie Sanders. You know, it's vapid, it's superficial, and it's a smear and it's downright disgusting. You can just as easily say, anyone who's choosing to support Warren over Bernie Sanders is anti-Semitic. You can easily make that case because she did not provide us with any evidence, not even an anecdote. No, polls know nothing. So she just said it because this is based off of the feelings of one person, what one person said. And there was zero pushback from the host. In fact, the host towards the end of the clip, as you saw, agreed with her. So this is absolutely, it's so frustrating because this is a news organization. We expect them to present us with data and facts, but there's nothing. They didn't base this off of a video where they interviewed Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporters, and maybe one of them seemed a little bit sexist. They just said it. That's bad. That's harmful. And not to mention, it's factually incorrect because Elizabeth Warren's plans are not more detailed than Bernie Sanders. First and foremost, her foreign policy is far less detailed than Bernie Sanders. And what we know about her foreign policy is that she's more hawkish than Bernie Sanders.  She's wishy-washy when it comes to Medicare for all and she doesn't have a plan to cancel medical debt. So there are actually policy reasons why we should support Bernie Sanders over Elizabeth Warren because objectively speaking, he is better than Elizabeth Warren if you truly want social democracy. But here's why this individual is smearing Bernie Sanders. Take a guess. She is really, really wealthy. So she is an heiress. Her dad's net worth is estimated to be between $500 million and $1.1 billion. He also owns a $30 million yacht. And his firm was one of Hillary Clinton's top donors in 2016. So I don't know why she is supporting Elizabeth Warren over Bernie Sanders. But I mean, if I had to take a guess, maybe it's because she's an elitist. Maybe it's because she knows that Bernie Sanders' wealth tax goes further, will take more money away than Elizabeth Warren's. I don't know. We don't even have to go through her motivations to denounce this. This type of gutter politics should be unacceptable. Everyone who's watching MSNBC should automatically realize that this person is a bad faith actor. She doesn't actually care about policy. She has a political agenda. But you know, here's the thing. People who watch MSNBC, they may not necessarily just automatically know that that was a bad faith smear of Bernie Sanders supporters, which is why we all have to come out and condemn this type of behavior in rhetoric because it's damaging. It's absolutely damaging. So I mean, I don't know what else to say. This isn't surprising anymore. And I haven't been able to cover all of the attempts to besmirch Bernie Sanders' character on MSNBC because if I did, I would never have any time to do anything because they're constantly doing it. But I absolutely feel like it's really important to condemn some of the worst. And this is one of the worst because you're not just smearing a candidate. You are smearing his base of support, which the Democratic Party, let me remind you, is going to need to win in 2020. And it seems like they haven't learned their lesson again. But what adds another layer of absurdity to this is that Bernie Sanders' support base, it's not just straight white males. His support base is mostly women, and it is multiracial. So I mean, for you to say this, when most of his supporters are women, it just, it makes it more absurd, but it doesn't even matter. They say things on MSNBC that aren't fact checked, right? You'd expect them just being more left leaning than Fox News to be a little bit more rigorous in the things that they say. You'd expect the hosts to care about facts, you know, to push back a little bit. But of course, that's not what we're dealing with. We have bad faith actors just going out of their way to smear because they don't like Bernie Sanders. Well, whatever the reason, I don't know why, but I mean, since they're doing it, I can just attribute my own reason to why they disapprove of Bernie Sanders. I think it's because they're anti-Semitic. If you don't think that's the case, well, I'm not presenting any data for my arguments, it's just a feeling. So whatever, you're anti-Semitic if you don't support Bernie Sanders. My argument is just as persuasive as her argument because I presented an equal amount of facts as she did, and precisely that is zero. But, you know, who cares about facts when we are just saying things that aren't even based on anecdotes? I mean, this is really what political discourse has devolved into in 2020 and the age of Donald Trump, when they're constantly complaining about him calling everything fake news, shouldn't you be going out of your way to reassure viewers that they should be confident in you? Keep sucking because my channel will only continue to grow.


From Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Cloud Foundry Summit 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Foundry Foundation. I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of Cloud Foundry Summit 2018 here in beautiful Boston, Massachusetts. Happy to welcome back to the program Chip Hilders, who's the CTO of the Cloud Foundry Foundation. Chip, you started off this morning saying, the runners this morning got a taste of the Boston Marathon. It's raining, it's cold, it's miserable. At least there was less wind. Yesterday was absolutely beautiful, right?  As a local, I do apologize for the weather. Normally, April's a great time. We want more tech coverage here in the area, more tech shows. We're in the center of a great tech hub here in the Boston seaport. So we've talked to a couple of Boston startups here at this show, and great ecosystem if you go there. So thank you for bringing your show here. Absolutely, happy to be here. All right, so last time we caught up was a year ago at the show. And I think it was, what, 213 working days or something? I think Molly said something like that there. So the good thing is in our industry, nothing's changing. We can talk about the same stuff as last year. Easily pays. No concern, let's just sit back and talk about our favorite pop culture references. But Chip, what's hot on your plate and what are you hearing from the users in the community? Sure, so this year the theme, our events team came up with a very fun pun which is running at scale. It means two things. One, the Boston Marathon was on Monday. But two, it really does represent the stories that we're getting from our users, right? The customers and the distributions, those that use the open source directly. So not only are we seeing a broadening of adoption across new organizations, but they're getting really deep into using it. We field a survey, a user survey. We just did our second run of it. In fact, we didn't have this data back in Santa Clara last year. So it's been less than a year since the 2017 one. And what we found was that there was a 21 point swing in those companies that were using Cloud Foundry with more than 50 developers, right? So 50 developers and higher. When you really talk to the interesting large scale, Fortune 500 companies, they're talking thousands of developers working on the platform, being productive. And that truly is kind of what this event is about for us. Yeah, you know, I grew up around the infrastructure stuff. And scale means a lot of things to a lot of people, but had a great discussion with Dr. Nick just before talking about how, if you were to build your kind of utopian environment, you look at some of the hyperscale companies, you know, the Facebooks and Googles the world. And the thing is they are at such a scale that if they don't have good automation and don't have really the distributed architectures that we're all talking about and things like that, there's no way that they could run their businesses. Yeah, and the reality is a lot of the businesses that aren't Google, aren't Facebook, they have to be able to think about that level of scale. To me, it really boils down to three basic principles. And to me, this is the best definition of what cloud native means. Whether you're talking about a platform, whether you're talking about how you design your applications, it's simple patterns, highly automated, which can be scaled with ease. And through that, you can do really amazing things with software, but it has to be easily scaled, it has to be easily managed, and you do that through the simplicity of the patterns that you apply. Yeah, and being simple is difficult. How much, you know, we have arguments in the industry, it's like, well, let's throw an abstraction layer in or do an overlay or an underlay, but really building kind of distributed systems is a little bit different. It is a little bit different. So one of the things that the Cloud Foundry ecosystem has is a rich history of iterating towards a better and better developer experience. At its heart, the Cloud Foundry ecosystem of distributions, and tools, and the different projects we have, they're all about helping a developer be a better developer in the context of their organization. So we've been iterating on that experience and just doing incremental constant improvement and change. And we're very proud of that productivity, right? That's really what drives these organizations to say, look, this is a platform that is operated very easily with small teams, right? I think you've spoken with a couple companies, and if you ever ask them how many operators do you have to handle thousands of engineers, tens of thousands of applications, they say, well, maybe 10. The T-Mobile example is 10 to 15 operators with 1700 developers. So that's good, it's funny, because I remember we used to talk about, like in the enterprise, how many servers can a single admin handle, and then if you go to the hyperscale ones, it was three orders of magnitude different. But in the hyperscale ones, they didn't really have server people, they had people that brought in servers and people that threw them in the woodchipper when they were done, and they didn't manage them. It was the old, you know, cattle versus pets analogy that we talked about on the other roof. So it's, you know, different, it's just totally different mindsets is how we think about this. I love, you know, for me, it was in the enterprise, you know, we harden the hardware, we think about this, and in the software world, it's, you know, no, no, I built it in the application layer because one of my favorite lines I use is, you know, hardware will eventually fail and software will eventually work, right? Absolutely, I think that's the difference between sort of application-centric thinking leads you to, necessarily, you have to have infrastructure to run it, right? My favorite, you know, favorite thing is this whole serverless term is absolutely ridiculous if anybody understands it, but there's a little bit behind it which is, in fact, I don't argue Cloud Foundry is fundamentally serverless because when you push code into it, you don't care what operating system's underneath it, right? All you care about is the fact that you've written some code in Java or in Node.js or, you know, in Ruby, you're handing it to a platform, it deals with all of the details of, you know, building a container image, scaling it, managing it, pulling in dependencies. You don't care what underlying operating systems are, and then that 10-person platform operations team in the Cloud Foundry world, they have the benefit of the upstream projects actually producing the operating system image that they can consume within hours of major vulnerabilities being announced. Yeah, and it's, I love actually, at this show you've got a containers and serverless track, and I'm an infrastructure guy by background and when we went to virtualization, we went a little bit up the stack, I don't think about servers, I'm trying to get closer to that application. What, you know, I'd love you to comment on is Cloud Foundry helps give some stability and control at that infrastructure level, but, you know, it's still involved with infrastructure from in my own data center or hosted data center, or I know what cloud I'm on. When I start going up to like serverless, it's, I'm a little bit higher up the stack and that's why they don't, they could live together and it's, you know, it's closer tied to the application than it is to the infrastructure, so maybe you could tease that out for us a little. Yeah, so I think one of the main things that we've heard from the user community, this is actually coming from users of a number of the different distributions, they're saying, look, there are roughly today, roughly two different modes that we care about cloud native application workloads and this might expand to include functions as a service, but predominantly there's two. There's the custom software that we write, which the Paz experience is grateful and then there's the ISV delivered software, which today, increasingly the medium of software delivery is becoming the container image, whether it's an OCI container or whether it's a Docker image, ISV ships software as container images and you need a great place to land that. So those two abstractions that Paz just hand the system your code or the container service just handed a container image, both of them work really well together and part of what we're trying to do as a community, a technical community is we're evolving those integrations so that we can work really well with the Kubernetes ecosystem. There are different options for how these things might be stacked depending on the vendor you're talking to. I think mostly that's immaterial to the customers. I think mostly the customers care about having those two experiences be unified from their developer or app owner perspective. Yeah, when you come to this show, there's more than just cloud foundry. There's a lot of other projects that are coming out of the space. Give us a little viewpoint as to how the foundation looks at this, what's the charter which it fits under Linux and the Linux foundation and there's so many different pieces and some kind of bleed into what the CNCF's doing and I'm just trying to help map out to have some of these pieces and it's this great toolbox that we've talked about in open source, I love the zip car guy got up and he's like, I use all the peripheral stuff and none of the core stuff and that's okay. Absolutely, that's the fun of open source. So there's a couple ways to look at this. So first, the open source communities collectively. There's a lot of innovation going on in this space, obviously, what the cloud foundry ecosystem generally does historically has done and will continue to do is that we are focused on the user needs first and foremost and what our technical project teams do is they look at what's available in the broader open source ecosystem. They adopt and integrate what makes sense where we have to build something ourselves simply because there isn't an equivalent or it's necessary for technical reasons. We'll build that software. But our architecture has changed many times. In fact, since 2015, right? It hasn't been that many years, as you said, we move slow in this industry. We've changed this architecture constantly, right? The upstream project's releasing at minimum of twice a month. That's a pretty high velocity and it's a big coordinated release. So we're going to continue to evolve the architecture to bring in new components. This is where CNCF relates. We've integrated Envoy, which is a CNCF project. We're now bringing in Kubernetes in a couple of different ways. We're working closely with Istio, which is not a CNCF project yet, but it looks like it might head that way. Service mesh capabilities. We were an early adopter of the container networking interface. Another Linux Foundation effort was the open container initiative, right? Seated from some code from Docker. Again, one of the earliest platforms to adopt that outside of Docker. So we really look at the entire spectrum of open source software as a rich market of componentry that can be brought together.  And think of it as almost a rationalization of the innovative chaos that's occurring, right? So we rationalize that. Our job is to rationalize. Our distributions use that rationalization and then all of the users get to take advantage of new things that come up. But also we take what gets integrated very seriously because it has to reach a point of maturity. T-Mobile again, running their whole business on Cloud Foundry. Comcast, running their whole business on Cloud Foundry. US Air Force, fundamentally running their air traffic control, right? How do they get fuel to the jets on Cloud Foundry? So we take that seriously. And so it's this combination of harvesting innovation from where we can harvest it, bring it all together, be very thoughtful about how we bring it together. And then the distributions get the advantage of saying, here's a stable core that's going to evolve and take us into the future. All right, Chip, I've loved the discussion with real customers doing digital transformation, what that means for them, how they're moving their business forward. Want to give you the final word? For those that couldn't come to the show, I know a lot of the stuff's online. There's a lot of information out there. Anything in particular you do want to call out or say, hey, this is cool, interesting, or exciting you that you'd want to point to. Yeah, I actually, there are a lot of things. But the one thing that I'll point to is, as a US citizen, I'm particularly proud of some of the work that's happening in the US government through 18F with cloud.gov as an example. But if I step back even further, Cloud Foundry is serving as a vehicle for collaboration across multiple nations right now. We're seeing Australia, we're seeing the United Kingdom, Netherlands, Canada, South Korea. All of these national governments are trying to figure out how to change citizen engagement to follow the lead of the startups, which are the internet companies, at the same time that these large Fortune 500 companies are also trying to digitally transform. Governments are trying to do the same thing. So we're almost done the day here. But there was a full day track of governments talking about their use of the tech, talking about that same digital transformation journey. So to me, that's actually really inspiring to see that happen. All right, well, Chip Childers, he was a dancing stick figure in the keynote this morning. I was. Thank you so much for joining us once again and thank you to the foundation for helping us bring this program into our audience. We're happy to have you here. I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE. Thanks for watching.


What in the sweet Christ was that? Ooh, that's a hot mug, guys. Hey guys, this is my review for Malignant, the new horror film from James Wan that is a... You know what? I can't even really tell you the story without spoiling it because this movie's bananas. This is actually a film that is so absurd in its concept and its execution that it actually benefits from its absurdity. The film follows Madison, a woman who is suffering from these visions of watching people die from this Gabriel character and there is a deep-seated conspiracy and connection between the two of them that pulls her into this world of madness, torture and murder. All the while, these very badly acted cops are trying to pin whatever's going on on Madison while also slowly uncovering what's going on on the side. There's this weird doctor conspiracy in the background and this sister who's figuring out what's going on with her past, with her adopted mother. The story and the characters aren't exactly the most memorable part, especially the characters. Everyone in this film is pretty generic and the acting is abysmal. However, and this is a very big however, it actually doesn't hurt the movie as much as it should because James Wan, I think, did this on purpose. Whatever money that they could have put into the casting element of this film, they took away and put into the production value in terms of the camera department and the visual effects, particularly the camera department. I think that James had so much fun having much more liberal use of visual elements with Aquaman that he incorporates that into a horror movie that eventually turns into an action slasher. But no joke, the visual elements of this film will 100% keep you entertained. How this film is told visually is the best part. Absolutely. From the creative camera angles to the visual fear that he puts into you with how he portrays the story, it's banging how good the camera work is in this film. There's even a one-off shot at one point that is completely random. I didn't even expect it to be in the film. But it's superbly well put together considering this is, again, supposed to be a horror movie. One combines the elements from his horror film days as well as his Aquaman and even the little of the Fast and Furious film, and he combines them into this extremely bananas kooky combination that while having quite weak characters has a very strong visual presence, and then the ending. The ending is completely bananas. It's straight up cuckoo. Also another element that should be talked about is the music. The music in this film is actually pretty cool. It's very out there. It's got this 80s sort of horror vibe to it. There is a kind of a repetition term sometimes with the music, but overall, I actually really enjoy the soundtrack too, and that helps combine with the visual elements of the film. Overall, the ligament on paper is not exactly the most memorable of horror movies except for the twist at the end, but it's how it's visually presented and thematically told that you will actually quite enjoy this movie. I did not expect it to be this entertaining. It's still stupid, but it's told so well that it makes up for its shortcomings in terms of just how much kooky is in it. So in the end, I'm actually gonna give Malignant a very generous four out of seven. I would highly recommend it because it is a banger's film. It's probably the most out there film that I've seen in a while. I'm kind of impressed that James Maugham was able to make this movie, but considering that Aquaman was a billion dollar success, probably Warner Brothers was like, yeah, sure, whatever, just as long as you make Aquaman to a billion dollar success as well. In the end, guys, I hope you enjoyed the review. If you did, leave a like, and if you're interested in more, subscribe. Otherwise, see you guys next time. And for those of you who have seen the ending, yeah, the ending's just bonkers, just wacko. Thanks for watching the video. My name is Nitz, and you might remember me from the animated cult classic TV show, Undergrads. It's been a while, but I'm happy to say the click is finally getting back together in an all new movie, thanks to a successful Kickstarter campaign. But we are still asking for your support. To see any and all updates about the upcoming Undergrads movie, be sure to check out and like the Bring Back Undergrads Facebook page. And with any luck, we'll see you guys soon.


Hey everyone, welcome back to Nintendo Prime, and you see we're not on our typical set right now because this is just gonna be sort of a discussion topic that does have a little bit of news in it. We do have a new story in here about Nintendo's fall slash holiday lineup, a new entry into that lineup that sort of rounds out what Nintendo's holiday lineup's going to be. This news is really, really cool and basically replaces what Breath of the Wild 2 was. This also makes me feel like maybe there's not gonna be a ton more announcements for 2022 from Nintendo, although there could be some surprises up their sleeves. You could still see some sort of Zelda announcement, maybe a Metroid announcement. Something could happen. Who knows? Maybe another Mario game gets announced. I don't know everything going on at Nintendo, but this is just stuff that seems to round out what Nintendo's holiday plans are going to be. And if this is the first time you've ever seen a Nintendo Prime video, I would appreciate a like, a subscribe, all of that as we're on our road to 80,000 subscribers. I do appreciate every single one of you.  Does bring games over to Switch, of course. And Nate the Hate has known to have industry connections and everything. He's talked in the past about some of these connections. I'm not gonna go into all the details. Sometimes this information's correct. Sometimes it's not. I know a lot of you have not forgiven for talking about how Switch Pro was gonna be eminently announced last year. And then after like a day, he started going back on that. And it was kind of a hot mess. We all know the Switch Pro situation. I think a lot of industry insiders did not handle it correctly last year. And then obviously a lot of YouTubers like us, kind of sitting here taking the brunt force blowback from a lot of fans because, you know, hey, we rely on these insiders for this information. But he did get other stuff, correct recently, including the Gen 9 Pokemon announcements. And so, you know, it's always hit or miss with these people that have connections. But one thing he did talk about on his podcast, probably the only piece of news you can glean out of this week's episode was, well, huh, Mario plus Rabbids, Sparks of Hope. So this game, you know, is slotted to come out this year. That is the last time we really saw this was back at E3 last year. Ubisoft talked about it. Nintendo showed a little bit of it. And that's really it. We haven't really heard much about it since. And a lot of people kind of assumed that maybe this game could get delayed out of this year since we haven't heard anything about it. But it does appear, at least according to Nate the Hate, that this is going to be their big holiday game packaged together with Pokemon Generation 9. So Scarlet and Violet are naturally the lead sales getter, but Nintendo does view as those Ubisoft Sparks of Hope as a major title for the holiday period. And you might go, but Nate, come on now. This is a spin-off Mario crossover franchise. How could this possibly replace Breath of the Wild 2? It can't, at least not long haul. Breath of the Wild 2 is obviously gonna be probably a evergreen title that's gonna sell millions upon millions upon millions for years, even cross generations into the next platform. But what we can say about Mario plus Rabbids, Sparks of Hope, is that Mario plus Rabbids, the original game, sold nine million copies, nine million. Yeah, that's a pretty big seller. That's Monster Hunter Rise levels of sales. So clearly they know that this IP has a lot of sales potential and it could actually slot in very well for the holiday. So the idea basically is that Nintendo's holiday is gonna shape up like this. It was in a way Chronicles 3 in September, Bayonetta 3 in October, Pokemon, Scarlet and Violet in November, and then rounding out with Sparks of Hope either in early November or in early December. So that seems to be what Nintendo is slotting for their holiday. And when you think about that lineup, that's a really solid lineup. You have two big games that are gonna do big numbers, right?  And then you're gonna see obviously Sparks of Hope is gonna do really, really good numbers as well, especially at launch. I could see it having a three, four, five million, you know, unit launch. And then obviously you have the niche, the hardcore, the faithful that you always wanna appease with Xenobrid Chronicles 3 and Bayonetta 3. Those two games obviously aren't gonna sell like Sparks of Hope or sell like Pokemon, but they could move two, three, four, maybe five million units in totality, not necessarily at launch. And that's obviously gonna help push things for the Switch heading into the holiday season. And that gives Nintendo a really solid slate of fall slash holiday games. And obviously we all know, well, hey, something on March, April sometime in early next year, we're gonna be getting Breath of Wild 2. There's probably gonna be some other port or something else landing in January. Nintendo's actually got things lined up fairly well for that period of the year. The times we don't really know about are basically July and August. Those are kind of the two months where we're kind of like, okay, what's Nintendo gonna do? Splatoon 3 is landing at some point. We know that. So yeah, I'm honestly thinking that Nintendo is looking just fine for this holiday period. Now, does this mean the rest of 2022 looks as good as say 2019, 2017? There's a lot of debate, by the way, over which was the bigger year, 2017 or 2019? 2019 technically had more exclusive games released. 2017, obviously they'll had Zelda, Mario and Splatoon. And then some people like to throw Mario Kart in that mix. So that ends up being a really, really big year of heavy hitters, whereas 2019 was more of the wave of games that aren't quite as popular, but still really important, besides obviously Sword and Shield. Obviously that's a big deal, but besides that, it's more so, okay, well you had Breath of the Wild, while we have Link's Awakening, right? Oh, well you had this, yeah, well we had Luigi's Mansion 3. So yeah, it's obviously a big debate over which year people prefer for Switch. Some people, by the way I've heard, actually argue 2018 is the king because the only game they care about is Smash, and some people only care about, well, you know, Animal Crossing. So yeah, it's gonna kind of depend on what matters most to you, because a lot, I mean, if we're just honest, just being completely honest, there are a lot of gamers that really only play a handful of games per generation. That's just reality. Maybe it's because of time, maybe it's because of the kind of game they play. You know, when you're playing the Animal Crossings of the Worlds, of Fortnite's of the Worlds, of Splatoons, of Call of Duty's, when you're playing these kind of never ending games, that can kind of become what you play a majority of the time. So yeah, it kind of leads to you maybe not necessarily playing as many games as, I don't know, I don't want to toot my own horn, but maybe it's I do. I actually play a wide swath of video games every single year.  As an example, last time I played Super Mario Superstars was I guess with my kids maybe a couple of weeks ago, and then before that, I was with you guys on live stream last year, earlier this year. I don't really play it that much, because I don't have a desire to, although I do have a lot of fun with it when I do play. So yeah, I honestly think that Nintendo has actually slotted very, very well for this year. Obviously we can look forward to 2023, where you can expect things like that new Zelda game, maybe a brand new 3D Mario game. I know some people might be thinking Odyssey 2. I'm thinking it's just some sort of 3D Mario game. I think the boat has sort of sailed on Odyssey 2. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe that's exactly what we're going to get, but I personally think we have actually kind of seen that they're moving on to a different idea, a different concept, and Bowser's Fury might be more the style of Mario game we can maybe look forward to. Maybe that was just a one-off idea, and we never see it come back. We still have obviously Metroid Prime 4 at some point. We still hope it's gonna come out this generation. Obviously we have a lot of concerns about the development. At least I have concerns about the development of it. Maybe you don't, but I do in whether or not it's gonna land this generation. Maybe Twilight Princess and Winner HD at some point. We keep wondering why these games haven't been imported already. So I don't know. You guys let me know what you think of Sparks of Hope landing this holiday period. Do you think this is a great filling game? I know some of you guys might not even be interested in the game, but for me, I know I'm interested in it. And I know Eric from the Nintendo Prime Podcast, my best buddy. It's one of his most highly anticipated games of the year. He loved the original, beat the original, and is really looking forward to the next one. As am I, because damn, damn, if Mario Plus Rabbids is not legitimately a great game and hopefully a great franchise. Can't call it that yet until we put it in the second one if that's really good.  So anyway, folks, I am Nathaniel Rumpeljantz from Nintendo Prime. I wanna thank you for joining me today and I will catch you in the next video.