what's up everybody once again it's brand man Sean and I got five things that you need to do to get the best and most value from consultations a lot of artists want to talk to people to do consultations trying to figure out what do I do next what do I need to do am I good enough all of these little things however after they spend the money for a consultation they're not making sure they actually get their values work from the consultation so these are the five things that you need to do if you reach out to anybody for a consultation the first thing it seems obvious but it's not done a lot of times and that's have questions pre-written have along your consultation is you will get the best out of it if you're not having to think of questions on the spot of course some things will happen or organically and naturally throughout conversation but at least make sure you get the things that you want out of that asked now that leads to number two what is your purpose for this call what is your goal you have to have a goal of the call I've sat on on some people's consultations or even did consultations in the past where people will be talking and they're asking questions and the conversation gets flowing and near the end of the consultation all the sudden they remember what their primary purpose of the call is as a matter of fact I would ask so I just want to make sure you get the most value of this call what's the reason of the call because I just realized a lot of time got wasted now I ask it sometimes at the beginning of the call but that's something that you need to know yourself so you can get what you came for because you're paying the money number three what are your goals for the next one month two months three months get an idea of what you want to achieve because that's what you need to communicate to this person whoever you're doing a call with you need to communicate to them so they can know how they're helping you one thing that I've heard times when I've done consultations or people wanting me to do consultation and I happen to agree people would say so what's the consultation for you're charging however much you're charging you're charging $20 $50 $100 what is going to happen on the call what should I expect bro you are reaching out to someone for a consultation you determine what gets talked about it's for you I can't just have a pre-established template of what's going to get done on the call when it's based on all your unique needs anybody who has a consultation that's completely a template and not based on your needs will not necessarily be able to give you the value you need and that's just not worth it it's not a me thing it's a you thing and the value that you need remember this number four get yourself a monthly budget have some sense of a monthly budget you do not have to volunteer this information before the call if they don't ask you don't have to volunteer it during the call because it might not even apply to what you're doing right you might be talking about just some of the notes and bolts or and you know some legal information or whatever but at least know what your monthly budget is towards whatever that thing you might be doing or having a sense of that just in case it does come up and is relevant to the person and it's something you want to reveal but don't let it be something that you've never thought of at all because I've caught people there have a sense of what you can do because that person if they're good at what they do they will be able to give you advice based on your budget they're not going to give you something far above because when we're talking about leaving a call achieving that goal it needs to be something you can execute on which leads me to number five do research on whoever you're speaking to try to hit them up about something that they know about don't just ask people just because they have some sort of position about anything because hey they might not know anything about the thing that you want to talk about and on top of that some people just don't necessarily like to talk about certain things like I don't like to talk about legal paperwork and things like that but there's people who specialize in that stuff and they kill it and with that being said I got some people to recommend that you can do consultations with because I know people are looking for people who aren't scammers just going to take their money just because these people if they feel like they cannot help you they will not help you they will pass you along if they don't have space for you or whatever these are some solid people so number one and this is in no particular order just some random people that I thought of in like literally one minute but I know they're valuable number one Cory the savior you seen buddy on my channel y'all should already know about Cory if you don't know now you know marketing spotify playlisting all that good stuff that's Cory number two Curtis King that guy YouTube channel killing it especially if you are a producer who is trying to figure out how to make money online that guy is a go-to guy he's worth your money sir love now you should already know about sir love if you watched all the videos on my channel you say you watch all the videos in my channel you ain't watched them all of you ain't seen sir love sir love also some people just call him face six because that's the name of the YouTube channel that he also has but if you talk if you're a manager looking at some booking information a lot of the legal paperwork the nuts and bolts of the industry he's a nuts and bolts guy he knows he knows a lot of stuff reach out to him but for real he understands the way a lot of things are connected particularly building from ground up and the way some of these meetings are you about to sign a record deal or go into a record meeting he knows the prep that you need to have or if you're what how you should present yourself to some of these people a lot of those things that's a guy worth reaching out to Damien Ritter it's another guy where we're talking about the business side of things right Damien if you figure out how to link with him I will go to him for you know if you're a manager as well or you're building a record label a lot of things like that we're talking about he somebody I will look to him answer love if I'm a manager another person I guess this makes person number five which is Kato Kato's a producer you probably seen my interview with him Kato's a very experienced producer he's done a lot of things in the industry worked with a indie label funk volume just do your research on him we I did interview with them Kato's a reliable guy number six Henny the business Henny's a very very experienced producer in the industry really dope guy very helpful if you can figure out a link with him for consultations he's you know producer placements just understanding the inner workings of a producer on the industry side he's been there he's done it songwriter stuff he's been there he's done it understanding the league alleys around that production and song writing and licensing and sample clearance all that stuff go to that man if you reach out to him and all the people that I'm listening right now IG I'm sure they will respond when they have chances a Lilo key is number seven you probably seen my interview with that guy he is an artist but when he has time I'm sure he'd be open to some regular consultations as well he would be somebody out hit up and say hey man can I just get a consultation can I just talk to you because he's done so many things independently just by himself as an artist and learning all these inner workings of the business he's done a lot go rewatch his interview that I did with him if you want to get in a sense of what he knows and just the path that he's taken he has a lot of views on YouTube he has a lot of views on Spotify and navigating that as an artist and getting on certain playlists or getting certain connections that he was able to get when we talk about rap nation and trap nation or just some of those random pages kind of running now but a lot of those things as an artist that a lot of people are trying to get into he's done I would even listen to his music to see if you're a similar style because that would really let you know hey if I'm somewhere in the range of where he is he could probably help me as far as what directions and to look to and what type of people value this type of music in the business hey and that's it as you guys know personally I really don't do consultations that often at least not anymore but whenever I'm open for it like for another three days randomly or something like that you know a couple times a year I'll announce it on the channel other than that remember reach out to all these people go discover them the names will be written on the screen throughout the video but I'm not gonna put all that information in the bio because I find a lot of people just hit people up and they're not even ready for it and they don't come prepared even though I just did a video about the things to prep yourself and get the value out of it y'all people just hit them up and say hey just just want to say hey you're cooler and not actually try to use these people strategically and use them in a way that you're being mindful of their time and even making the most out of your own so remember those things try to get it done in a way that's very professional and makes the best out of everybody's time if you liked this video go ahead hit that like button if you like it you might as well share it and if you subscribe you know what to do hit that subscribe button


This is an event we're calling the Water Protector Caravan. We have a band, we have artists, just kind of lined up to canvas the communities all up and down the route as we try to stop the Bayou Bridge Pipeline. You can see like the areas that they're going to put these pipelines in by and large are black, brown, and poor communities, you know? We're out here and all reaching the community, let by know by the Bayou Bridge Pipeline and coming through St. James Parish and some also some other black communities that we need to fight against the corrupt government and also the corrupt industries that are happening in Louisiana. You know, I see Alabama, I see Mississippi investing in solar power. Why can't Louisiana do it? I've been in the canvassing for the past two days. I'm from Louisiana and the pipeline's going to go like through my city. So that's why I'm really against it because this is my home and this is where I live and this is where I'm going to grow up. They promised that they were going to get us workers more jobs for Louisiana which is the office of what they're doing and how it has the potential to actually poison our waterways and make us so sick. I really wish for Louisiana to not become so dependent on oil and for people to start paying more attention to the climate of Louisiana and the flooding already happening. Only 12 permanent jobs would be created through this. I grew up not far from here in New Iberia, Louisiana. So this is really important to me because this pipeline is going through the area in which I grew up and it's going to affect the waterways that I grew up with and it's going to affect the coast negatively in the basin that are super important to my traditional way of being. That's actually a postcard that you can mail in to the governor. The governor's a huge supporter of the project so we're just asking people to send in the postcard and you know put your word in about how this isn't really a good fit for us. You can just go on knowbbp.org and you can find other ways you can help or address the part.


From Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE, covering ScienceLogic Symposium 2019, brought to you by ScienceLogic. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE's exclusive coverage of ScienceLogic Symposium 2019. Here's the Rick Carlton in Washington, D.C. Happy to welcome to the program first-time guest but a long-time customer of ScienceLogic, Carl Fosper, who's the Senior Director of Systems Integration at CUES. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. All right, so we're here in D.C., and that's important because, first of all, you know, you're based down here and ScienceLogic is based down here. Bring us back a little bit. You've been a customer a long time to maybe even give us a little bit of the before picture if you could. Sure, so yeah, we've been a customer for 12 years now and we picked ScienceLogic for a big list of reasons. Actually wrote the RFI itself and probably 20 pages long. Lots of people came back and gave us responses. ScienceLogic was one of the shortlisted candidates that we picked out. We did a bake-off with a couple other vendors and ScienceLogic was the clear winner. All right, so Carl, let's zoom out for a second here and just give us a level set on CUES, what CUES is today. You know, I'm familiar with what CUES was back in the day and there's certain pieces that are no longer there, so give us a level set on the company and the business. Yeah, sure, so CUES is formerly known as CUES Network Systems. We're owned by Aquastar Corporation and we're a managed service provider. We have a consumer business where we provide broadband internet to folks that live really out in the countryside and can't get cable or DSL or files, things like that. We have about 1.4 million subscribers in our consumer business. We've also launched consumer services in South America, Brazil, Ecuador, Columbia, places like that, really serving underserved areas for getting them broadband. We also have an enterprise business where we sell to credit card processing, gas and oil, pipelines, fast food, places like that. So Carl, is it safe to say you use Satellites but no longer put them into space? We use Satellites, that's correct. We contract that out now. Yeah, we are the last remaining CUES company. So service providers are always fascinating to me because we talk about enterprise IT and how fast things are changing. At least for my entire career when I talk to service providers, change and growth is really just baked into the DNA. I need to move fast. When you talk about scale, it means something very different and living in that complex world. Can you just give us a little bit about what things are like in 2019 for you? Sure, yeah, the scale is always our challenge. Like I like to say, we have sales people too. And they're out there selling new products and services constantly. So we needed to be able to grow with those sales. We started out with a couple thousand devices that needed monitored in applications. Now we're up to almost 30,000 NOC systems that we monitor. Also we're keeping track of nearly two million terminals and the status of them and things like that. So yeah, scale is super important to us. Okay, so bring us inside where science logic fits into your equation. Sure, so when we put out our RFI out to industry years ago, we were trying to replace a whole bunch of different tools. And we had other vendor products and things like that. We really wanted to consolidate tools as much as possible into a single platform. Traditional ICMP, SNMP monitoring is how we originally started. Now we have lots and lots of integration with other tools, you know, APM products, different streaming media products. We're integrating more and more with streaming services now in terms of getting data into the platform. So. Yeah, Karl, I would love to get your viewpoint. You know, something that came through to me in the keynote is on the one hand here, it's like, oh well, AI office is going to replace things like, you know, some of the traditional players here. But then you see on the stage, it's like, oh okay, we're actually going to have integrations with a number of these tooling. So yes, there's overlap, but it needs to be integrated. How do you look at that? Is this the primary product? Is this a piece of the product? How does data collection between all these various tools go together? Well, that's a great question, because that's exactly what we and lots of other folks are grappling with right now. We've got data producers all over the place now. And we're really focused on the data production and high quality data back at the source into a real PubSub type of architecture, of which we believe that ScienceLogic will be both a producer and consumer of that PubSub architecture. And whether it's the one tool to rule them all or not, probably not, no one's going to be that. And we've got lots of vendors that purport to be the one tool to rule them all. But really, we're focused on ScienceLogic at this point to be really the focus, especially for our operations folks. We've got 24, seven staff. They use ScienceLogic as their main tool that they go to. That's really where we want the data to end. That's where we want as much intelligence to end as possible. So, you know, I'd be curious since you've been using the tool for a dozen years now. 12 years ago, the discussion of data was nowhere near what it was today. Can you just bring us through a little bit of that journey and you mentioned data a bunch, but how important is that? Where are you in your journey for? There was that maturity model that was put up there. The role of data today, and where do you see it going? Well, I mean, data's everything. Today, 12 years ago, we were grappling with things like naming conventions and simple firewall rules and whatnot. Those days are long, long past. Now, the data quality and the pipeline is what we're focused on right now. Because like Dave said in the keynote, garbage in, garbage out, we're really, really focused on trying to get good quality data by focusing on the source of the data, as opposed to fixing it after it's been moved into whatever platform it ends up in. So we're using proper schema management and trying to bake data governance into the actual engineered products. And if it's not governed data, then you don't get to look at it. And that's really our focus. We're an engineering company at heart. So we actually write most of our own software. So we're kind of in control of our own destiny there. And we're really focused on pushing that back because we think the benefits in the long run are going to be worth that investment to get clean data all the way back to the source. Yeah, so, Carl, one of the big shifts I've seen in the last few years, when you talked about managing and monitoring, I used to as the administrator or controller, used to be able to go and touch all of those pieces. Today, there's more and more some of those pieces. I need to manage not just the stuff that's in my environment or my hosted environment, but outside of my environment and doing public clouds. Bring us up to speed as to where does cloud fit? How do you, what's your cloud strategy? Sure, we're actually launching some of our first applications in GCP right now. So we're working with our Google partners in this particular case to integrate the data that they can collect natively in their systems, bring it back as actionable events into science logic platform, while keeping the vast majority of the data native to their platform, no need to bring back application specific data, unless we're actually going to do something with it or if we need to cross correlate it with other information. The data sources live in our data centers, not in GCP, so we need to combine it with information we know about our on-prem equipment plus the applications running there. So that's the data we'll bring back to cross correlate. Yeah, how do you decide what lives where and where does science logic fit in in the whole discussion? Yeah, it's a good question. What lives where? We kind of go back to license models and cost models. We're pretty good sticklers about focus on doing proper upfront analysis to make sure we don't end up with some six or seven figure bill at the end of the year from a cloud provider. We also tend to do a lot of stuff on-prem because a lot of our systems have to run in one of our data centers. If you ever driven past our building, you'll see these large, large dishes and antennas outside, a lot of our equipment has to be within milliseconds or microseconds even of those dishes. So we actually have a large data center presence kind of scattered around the country and around the world. So we have the compute resources to do it ourselves. Yeah, and even I would think edge computing something that plays into what you're doing. What do you see as some of the main challenges is the kind of footprint for what you're doing and things spread out more? Yeah, keeping let's say pet projects and shadow IT projects, keeping them in check is a really big focus right now. Because, and also with DevOps, sort of the, I'll do everything, I'm going to be my own IT department philosophy is a new challenge that we're facing. So integrating with what the DevOps guys are building into our overall monitoring strategy, that's been a new challenge that has really creeped up or the last, let's say six months or a year. Okay, is there an intersection between your use of the science logic in the DevOps team yet? Not a big one yet. I think we're still learning DevOps at this point. I consider it a lifestyle change, not really a thing that you go get. So I think we're still kind of early adoption for DevOps and really only Greenfield projects at this point in time. Okay, how about the term of the show is AIOps. So what's your act in AIOps? Where do things like machine learning and automation fit into your environment? Yeah, we actually have quite a few use cases where we really think that machine learning is going to help us a lot. Cross-correlation is a big area for us. We have lots of information, but figuring it out, feeding like the APMs and our Cisco ACI software-defined networking and those bits of information all into one product, we've been challenging science logic on this for quite a while. It's like, okay, you guys know about everything now. Tell us something that we didn't know before. And that's kind of where we're at and seeing the announcements from this morning was really encouraging that we're finally see the horizon at this point. Yeah, if you can, it's found out that a little bit. How has science logic been doing on the roadmap? What helps between science logic and your vendor ecosystem out there? What more could they be doing to make your life easier? Yeah, that's a good question. So if you would ask me that a year ago, I probably wouldn't have been as encouraged as I am today. It was a challenge and they're an engineering company. We're an engineering company. Sometimes you have to focus on foundation and it's not cool, it's not sexy, it's not shiny, but you have to do it. And I think they've been focused a lot on their foundational aspects of the product which will actually enable doing things like machine learning. There's no point doing machine learning if you have bad data or if you have a platform that doesn't support very, very fast queries. And the GraphQL database, we think that we're gonna use that extensively and through the API and not even through the UI. So I think foundation is important. I think they've focused on it for the last couple of years. I think we're finally gonna start to see the benefits of it. Both single factor sort of machine learning, anomaly detection, but we really wanna see it on the cross domain. I wanna be able to see in science logic, impacts impacted by in our full stack environment. I'd expect you probably had some visibility into what was coming out in the big Ben release. Is there anything that jumped out at you or that you're ready to use day one? So automations for sure. We'll use that definitely day one. The way they've gone through and really made it a lot easier to use. You don't have to be a Python developer anymore to actually get a lot of benefits out of the product. So I can turn that over to some of our junior engineers to actually handle those things. And we get a lot more sophisticated with them now. Primarily we used to focus on, let's send an email type of thing. Now we can actually execute back end actions without having to have a programmer to do it. So that right away we're gonna use out of the box. Okay, and in that forward looking piece without breaking any visibility you have into their roadmap, what would you like to see more? I'd like to see more getting performance data into their real scalable, laterally scalable backend. And that's certainly an area that I'd love to see as much progress as fast as possible on. Also the PubSub, subscribing to streams coming out of our Kafka cluster, we want that to be in the product as soon as possible because we really believe that that's where the majority of our data of the future is gonna come from. Also new applications, they come and go. Docker containers spin up, spin down. So the state of something is no longer fixed and we need to be able to integrate with Kubernetes and our OpenShift platform to be able to know, well, what should be running right now? Those are the things that are on our roadmap that we need out of the product as soon as possible. Yeah, so it definitely came to me that ScienceLogic's listening, are they moving fast enough for you? No, no one's ever moving fast enough. So yeah, they're moving, so that's good. But yeah, I mean, I could use it today if they had it. All right, Carl, last thing, you've been to a few of the ScienceLogic events in the past, give us, you've been to other industry shows. What's special about this show? What brings you and your team to ScienceLogic symposiums? Well, one of the things that ScienceLogic does a really good job is they bring a lot of resources here and actual resources that actually know stuff. It's not just a bunch of salespeople telling me, oh, that shiny new object's going to be in the platform at some indeterminate time in the future. It's the actual engineers, people writing code, product managers, things like that. So having access directly to the people who actually do the platform updates and changes is super valuable. The new center where we can touch and feel the kick of tires on new things has been excellent this year. So I think that's probably the thing, is just quick access to all the resources. We have a bit of advantage. We're only 45 minutes up the road. We can come down here as need be to visit their headquarters, but having everyone here at one time is great. All right, well, Carl Fosberg, really appreciate you sharing your history and experience and future direction as to where things are going on your end. All right, I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from ScienceLogic 2019. Thanks for watching theCUBE.


As-Salaam-Alaikum-Khawwati-Nuh-Hazrat. Wasim As-San welcomes you to lecture number six of Marketing for Non-Profit Organizations, MKT 628 at the virtual University of Pakistan. Today's learning is going to be all about social marketing and the lecture is going to be divided into four components. The very first component is about social marketing, i.e. what it really is, how it differs from other areas within the NPO sector. The reason we really have to talk about social marketing in its separateness is that the terminology suggests that any program undertaken within the NPO sector is social marketing. The connotation owes the fact that all programs within the NPO sector are geared towards social welfare, improvement of society, and therefore any program which is about social welfare is social marketing. But that's not the case. There's a fine line or a distinction between social marketing and generic marketing. Generic marketing we talk about in the context of commercial marketing and we also talk about in the context of NPO marketing. As a matter of fact, generic marketing is all about application of the principles of marketing mix, meaning those four variables we keep talking about and we keep referring to in terms of different examples and different contexts within the NPO sector, the commercial sector, and so on and so forth. There has been quite a lot of debate about what social marketing is and what it ought to be and it just so happens that over the last 10, 15 years, meaning in this very 21st century, there has been a clarity on part of all the experts as to what social marketing is. Well, it is all about changing the behavior of the target audience. Now, this is something that we already have learned. How does it differ? It differs in the sense that while carrying out social marketing, social marketers draw their attention and apply all their expertise toward getting the behavior changed. This is not the case when you follow other programs relating social welfare. You may be selling a product, you may be offering a service, but here you're doing something which is all about the customer. In other words, whatever you do benefits the customer. Nothing goes to the benefit of the marketer. Everything goes to the benefit of the customer and the customer benefits only if he or she changes his behavior or her behavior. This is the basic difference. As a matter of fact, the results achieved from social marketing over the last couple of decades have been very impressive all over the world. Social marketing has been used in terms of the prevention of forest fires, in terms of achieving success on the family planning side, in terms of having teenagers quit smoking, in terms of convincing people to administer the oral rehydration therapy in case of diarrhea and therefore controlling child mortality. There have been so many different areas where social marketing has played its role. The only key is that social marketing brings about a complex and a sophisticated value exchange whereby it is the customer who stands to gain and not the marketer. Let me give you a couple of examples, rather two examples which are very parallel to each other. The one falls within the domain of generic marketing and the other within social marketing. However, they both pertain to the NPO sector. The first is about a dispensary which you as a group of social marketers are running. The dispensary is all about offering medical treatment to accident and crime victims, offering medical forestry to the walk-in patients and so on and so forth. You may have more than one dispensary because you have a comprehensive distribution system whereby you are offering your service at more places than one. Here you can see and you are convinced that you have to apply all the four variables of marketing mix and all the pieces are there. You have the dispensary as the point of distribution like I said and you are offering the medical treatment as the product. There's a price that you charge for that. It may be a minimal price subsidized or maybe it's free of charge and the benefit is what the target gets and the promotion is the actual existence of the dispensary of which the greatest manifestation can be by way of the ambulance which applies on different roads of the city. So this is an example which falls within the domain of generic marketing. You're offering a service, a very noble service with the help of the four piece of marketing but this is not social marketing because you're not doing anything to change the behavior of your customers, to change the behavior of the target audience. The target audience whenever it needs the service of the dispensary walks to the dispensary or have the dispensary send the ambulance to them so that they can be looked after, attended to and the need addressed. Let us not talk about the other example from the social marketing domain. You are a team of the marketing people running a program on inoculation and you have to educate and convince village folks from one of the communities about the efficacy of the inoculation because you want to prevent those people from the outbreak of a possible lethal disease and therefore you go to the community and you educate them before the medical team can arrive there about the utility of the program and convince them that they should get themselves and all the family members inoculated because it is going to be to their benefit. So in other words if you are in a position to convince them about the benefit in other words the action reward system if they take a particular action to the by way of presenting themselves for inoculation they're going to get a particular benefit you have done your job and you have achieved the mission and this is what social marketing does. In other words social marketing brings about a behavior change. To talk about the four Ps in this example as well let me say that the total administration of the program is the product inoculation being the final end. The wizard of the marketing team is the promotion and the wizard of the medical team that is inoculating the target market is the point of distribution and the price paid is the value exchange rather price paid is part of the value exchange and that is in actuality the behavior change. They have changed their values they have changed their attitudes in terms in fact before changing the value system after getting convinced that a behavior change is going to be to their benefit and therefore they have presented themselves for inoculation and this is what social marketing does. Let me assure you a graphical presentation which brings about complete parity on part of all of us as to what social marketing is and how it differs from the rest of the marketing as part of the MPO sector. This graphical presentation as you can see shows us the classification of social programs as you can see here social programs can be classified into two of the major areas because the one is generic marketing programs which is right here the other one is social marketing programs which is right there. I've talked about these two in clarity by giving you two examples the one from the generic marketing programs the dispensary example and one from the social marketing programs the inoculation program. It is obvious that on the generic side we try to achieve the mission through generic programs whereas on the social marketing side we seek a behavior change and both aspects basically converge at one single point right here which is social welfare improvement. Like I said at the beginning of the component that the whole MPO sector is all about seeking welfare of the society and bringing about improvements after improvements but there are certain fine distinctions between generic marketing programs and social marketing programs. I think in order to bring about even more clarity that we should say that the generic marketing programs are the welfare programs or rather the generic welfare programs whereas programs falling on the other side are the social marketing programs. One thing which this graphical presentation and the learning of the component has been made very clear is that social marketing is a bit complex complex in the sense because it is not the marketer who has to take an action as a matter of fact after his taking the action it is the customer who has to take the desired action at a stage which is not within the control of the marketing people. This also happens at the commercial side but there are certain complexities involved because the marketer can never be very sure that the benefit he has talked about as part of the education of the program of the target audience is really going to work or not. Well this again holds very much true on the commercial side but again there are certain certainties and complexities which make the whole thing rather more challenging and brings in an element of doubt whether this really is going to work or not and I'm going to talk about those differences in a moment. Another thing which is very clear is that there is no price charged as part of the social programs the beneficiaries are the target market and not the marketers and another the fact of social marketing is that the target market is totally educated of the utility of the program because it is complex and it is long drawn the implementation is going to take a lot more time than other generic programs and therefore to keep people engaged and to keep them interested toward getting the desired benefit it takes a lot more effort on the side of the social marketing programs in comparison with other generic programs may those fall within the sector of commercial marketing or NPO marketing. Now after having learned what social marketing is again one thing has become very clear that social marketing is different from the rest of the marketing which is generic marketing. What are those differences which make the social marketing more challenging and make the job of social marketers a lot more harder. What is it that makes the process so long drawn and what is it that makes the social marketing program kind of a self-generated programs in which the target audience has a lot greater role to play. Let me talk about those factors one by one. Well in the first place social marketing remains under a lot of intense scrutiny by the public because of the fact that they are working for improvement of the society on a program which is meant for social welfare they are under a lot more scrutiny by the stakeholders than commercial products are. If somebody is not really interested in buying a commercial product well they don't buy it but here conversely the social change is highly desirable and the people want the social marketers to work in a way that that change is brought about. So there are always stakeholders who keep you under the microscope and try to assess you on a performance appraisal scale but the fact remains there is no performance appraisal scale because the process is long drawn it is not really visible and it takes a lot more time a lot longer time to implement it and therefore the results which happen to be intangible are not seen. The only thing that you can offer is the promise and therefore the stakeholders can become impatient and they get impatient to the point that they start interfering with the programs and the structure of the organization. So in order to cope with this kind of a situation and circumstances what social marketers generally do they bring into the marketing mix of social marketing two more factors and those are politics and public relationing. Public relationing is not confined to just maintaining your relationships with donors and funders and other stakeholders it is an effort on your part to keep your stakeholders engaged in a way that they do not interfere that they keep involved and they are convinced they should stay convinced that your efforts will be fruitful one day. Another factor that really differentiates social marketing from the rest of the marketing is very high expectations on part of the stakeholders for complete eradication of the social problem. The problem will get resolved universally only if there is a universal adoption of the changed behavior meaning the change which is desirable and for which the organization is working. It is not really possible because you just cannot have 100 percent people or the target audience to rally around your point and change their behaviors which are so deep seated and have evolved over the last not just staggered but rather centuries. So the job of the social marketers is here to lower the expectations of the stakeholders. It is generally said that social marketers succeed in getting the behaviors changed to the extent of like you know 15 to 20 percent. In other words 20 percent is a very good score on a scale of 0 to 100. Therefore expecting that a social problem is going to be totally eradicated by 100 percent does not amount to having very realistic expectations. Yet another point which gives the very distinct differentiation to social marketing programs is the fact that social marketers have to deal with negative demand all the time. Negative demand is all those factors which are undertaken by the target audience and social marketers are out to change all those. In other words all those habits and attitudes and behaviors which the target audience is following and the social marketers are wanting to do something exactly opposite to that and opposite of that. Now this is something which the target market doesn't really like. They detest it as a matter of fact. Just to give you examples if you ask them to conserve water they may not like it. If you want to have your target audience to lower their thermostats during the summer period when it comes to using air conditioning or tell your target audience to start behaving in the roads in order to have sanity in the flow of traffic these are not the kind of things which they will immediately buy because these are very ingrained habits and this is what you call negative demand. Certain behaviors on part of the target audience which they want to maintain and continue with and you as social marketers want to change that is a huge challenge. Yet another factor which makes social marketing rather more challenging is that social marketers have to deal with mostly non-literate population. I'm not saying here illiterate it could be a combination of illiterate and semi-literate kind of people so the population of the whole is kind of non-literate. That is the reason that social marketing is generally practiced in the third world. It is not a phenomenon which is followed in the western world by and large it is seen as being practiced in the third world and the organizations that started undertaking social marketing programs and are still supportive in a huge way of social marketing effort are the World Bank and the US Agency for International Development meaning USAID. Because of the fact that it takes a lot more time and a lot more effort and the financial support these organizations have to jump into the arena trying to help the third world countries improve their social welfare. Back to the point of non-literate population the greatest challenge which social marketers face while dealing with this kind of target market is the communication effort and the communication programs. It is not a question of coming up with high flying kind of brochures and flyers or high sounding kind of marketing campaigns on radio and television. It is a question of talking with an audience that behaves in a very peculiar way because they have a very different kind of patterns of social interaction to show and therefore social marketers have to be very creative when it comes to putting together their communication campaigns and they do that with the help of the people from other social disciplines about which I will talk shortly. The idea here is to have campaigns which have an appeal for the target audience and since they are not literate you have to come up with things like cartoons or characters or some other local tricks which you put together with the help of mediators moderators and the local observers. Another factor which keeps social marketing programs under a lot of stress and poses a huge challenge is that social marketers are in a difficult position to prove that the programs they're talking about and the education they're imparting are really going to be very helpful and beneficial for the target audience because while they advocate their target audience there is nothing they can show them. There is nothing tangible they can talk about. They can only talk about promises but otherwise nothing happens and that makes the whole exercise very challenging. If you talk about the benefits I mean a mother which is going to administer an ORT to her children in case of diarrhea is not really convinced that when the time comes this is going to work and even if she gets convinced that this is a good program could be beneficial and she follows it in true lettering spirit she might still think that the same situation would have prevailed if she had not taken this action. I mean the babies would still have been okay even if she had not administered this ORS. So this is a great difficulty which the marketing people face while dealing with their target audience. This in other words is the invisibility of the benefit which the social marketer just cannot show his target audience. So it makes the job a lot more harder. Another thing which is a constraining factor is the misconception and misperception on part of the target audience that they do not get the benefit directly out of a changed behavior. Just go back to the example of lowering the thermostat of the air conditioners or conserving water and you will know what I'm talking about. These people may think that by lowering the thermostat somebody else is going to be the beneficiary. The benefit doesn't come to me you know that this is the way that these people think. By conserving water somebody else is going to have his portion of the water it's not me. I am going to pay for that water in any case. So why conserve water? So this is the third party benefit which becomes kind of a constraining factor because while these social marketers educate their target audience not only during the education program but also afterwards. As a matter of fact you see it counts more afterwards than during the education program because it is the timing you see when the target audience is going to take the action and if they do not take the action by not changing their behavior it means they either do not fully understand the dynamics of the action reward equation or they just want to stay oblivious to it.  The fact of the matter is that social marketing is all about selflessness it is not about selfishness. So this is a huge challenge which the social marketers face. Another constraining factor which draws distinction between the social marketing and the generic marketing is that social marketers could always have to operate with severe budget limitations. They know they have to go to the outside sources for funding because they want to keep their finance pool sustainable at all times and therefore they do not want to get into a spending program or a spending mode which may reflect of wastefulness and give any cause for concern to the stakeholders and yet they have to be very effective in terms of getting out their programs because they want to achieve their mission they want to completely implement the program and you can well imagine the kind of predicament social marketers at times find themselves in. Another distinguishing factor of social marketing is that social marketers cannot modify their offering. Let me draw here a comparison of social marketing with commercial marketing. When a product is no longer preferred by the target audience what is it that commercial marketers do? They always talk with the production department of the company and bring about a change in the features of the product in line with the changing preferences of their consumers but this is not the case when it comes to social marketing programs. Just think of the ORS. I mean the way it is given maybe in sachets or maybe in the bulk form for you to prepare that solution in your homes the fact remains that there are certain dispensations created by the medical scientists and therefore that puts certain limitations on the way an offering or a product looks like. Another factor which social marketing apart is skepticism on part of co-workers colleagues and the many stakeholders who are otherwise supposed to support the programs and support the social marketers they start questioning the very validity of the marketing programs because they're convinced that these programs can be carried out without any marketing support. This is a huge misunderstanding on part of co-workers and colleagues and very unfortunate that the discipline or the area which makes social marketing or the programs successful becomes questionable and a point of contention by so many people or by so many stakeholders who are part of the organization or who are part of the total effort. Therefore marketing people on the social marketing side have to face with so many different challenges that their job is surely a lot more challenging than the job of marketing people on the other side of the fence meaning either commercial marketing or even genetic marketing on the NPO side. So this is all about the differences in social marketing and with this we now move on to the next component. Thanks. We're now going to get into new component which is about the importance of tools from other disciplines. The why I'm talking about tools from other disciplines because marketing happens to be a many-sided social discipline that borrows concepts from so many different social sciences. Of the social sciences that really have contributed towards the discipline of marketing or economics sociology mass communication and so on and so forth. The fact is that this combination of different concepts lets us understand how customers behave why they behave the way they do and what is it that we can do or should do in order to change their preferences and their beliefs and value systems and so on. If we take a look at social marketing it becomes very clear that the role of sociology and mass communication becomes even more important because we need to have a thorough understanding of the consumer behavior. Let me give you here an example of the commercial market where we try to influence the behavior of the customer by letting him change his preference. We are selling biscuits for example that we always can do something with the product and then support it with the help of the communication campaigns to convince our customers that our product is better and therefore they should change their preference. It is a challenging task. It is a very creative kind of a task but it has not something as difficult as social marketers will find their challenges when it comes to changing behaviors of their target audience. The behavior change on this side of marketing meaning social marketing is much more substantial and consequential as compared with just a change of preference on the other side of marketing. The reason is that on the social marketing side you need to have a much deeper and thorough understanding of the value system that has evolved over a long long period of time. Since it is a question of the behavior change your understanding has got to be much greater than you require in order to just change the plain preferences in terms of selling a commercial product and here there are two social disciplines that count a lot and from which the social marketing area bothers a lot and those are social anthropology and mass communication. They play their respective roles by supporting the field of social marketing in terms of getting out market research and implementing the programs in light of the research findings and then helping the organization with putting together communication program which is very relevant and which really has an appeal in the sense that you can have your target audience change their behavior. So how does it work? Let me explain that. Social anthropology is a study of the human society, its development, its functioning, its makeup and all these social cultural values and customs which the society has evolved over its evolutionary period and all that is very useful in terms of getting out your market research. This may sound very highly sophisticated and complicated but in practice it is not because many market research companies have the people working for them with expertise in the area of sociology and social anthropology and they are the people who guide the marketing effort in terms of indicating who are going to be the early adopters of the desired behavior and who are going to be the ones resisting the proposition and ones who have adopted the new values whether they have a chance of staying with those values for a long time to come or not. For example it has been seen that many smokers after quitting smoking for a few years again go back to smoking. So what is it that can be done or should be done in order to maintain the behavior which already has been changed. So these are the kind of leads which social anthropologists give the marketing people toward designing their market research programs. Once this has been achieved then the role of mass communication comes in and the fact is it is a very supportive supplementary factor because based on the research findings and the the makeup of the target audience the organization is in a position to put together a program which is a reflection of the values and the customs held high by the target audience. It is mass communication that lays the ground for creating a climate of the values and beliefs that the target audience finds beneficial. So in other words mass communication does the trick in terms of telling the customers or the target audience that the changed behavior is going to be socially desirable and acceptable and personally desirable and gratifying. So that's where the trick is the target audience has got to understand the reward action equation and it is mass communication that actuates the target audience into taking the desired action. So in other words it takes the target audience from the contemplation stage to the action stage. So these two disciplines social anthropology and mass communication are the ones that set the ground for behavior modification. The target audience changes and modifies its behavior and hopefully for a long time to come by understanding the reward action equation and that is what these two disciplines do to social marketing. Let me give you an example of a successful program which was kicked off by the government in most likelihood back in 2012 on how to prevent the polio. It is not a question of putting a few drops in the mouth of a baby. It is a question of a complete and clear understanding on part of the population at large how important it is to prevent polio from happening. Look at the consequences of the disease in the life of those who are inflicted by it. This kind of a campaign can be organized and executed by an NPO. No question about it but my point here is to the point of something which is a combination of what social marketing borrows from the two disciplines i.e social anthropology and mass communication. Another example which is very well quoted in the literature is on prevention of TB meaning tuberculosis in Honduras. The patients were not finding it very motivating to continue their treatment and they stopped the treatment despite the fact that they knew it was good for them. The NPO's carrying out that campaign that they got very concerned and found out that the real reason they were stopping the treatment was that they were not given emotional and social support by their families because they were considered as outcasts. With that feeling they thought it could be much more preferable to stop the treatment than to continue with it and therefore based on the findings of the marketing research these NPO's could working in that particular area came up with a campaign which was based on education of the families convincing them that they have to give total support to the patients because it is good not only for them but also for the families and they succeeded in educating the target audience. The campaign was run and it was a huge success because the campaign was designed all around the fact that you are not to desert your kith and kin when they are in difficulty. So this is all about the tools which are borrowed by social marketing from other disciplines namely social anthropology and mass communication. Two disciplines which are very prominent and with this we now move on to next and the last component which is about sustainability and institutionalization. Social marketing is very challenging because it is all about bringing about a change in behaviors but what is even more important is to maintain and sustain those behaviors. If people go back to their old habits and behaviors it is a failure of social marketing because that reflects the program has not been successful and therefore there is a need to develop institutions which can continue the effort on a protracted basis. So in other words there is a continual effort which is needed on part of NPO's to make sure that the people stay with the changed behaviors and those are the desired behaviors that they should stay for all times to come. What is happening right now is that initiatives in this particular sector are being taken by international agencies like the World Bank and the USAID. They have their expertise financial muscle and in particular the consulting help mainly from the US. They are in a position to initiate these programs get them implemented start getting the desired results but when it comes to maintaining the mainstream of those results it becomes a responsibility of the local people or the local government. The local governments in particular should play the intermediary role whereas the NPO's should take on the initiative left by the international agencies. Meaning NPO's should pick up the threads where those agencies have left them. We already have people who have been working for those agencies and therefore it is a challenge on part of the NPO's to make the best possible use of the expertise that already have been developed for those people and it is a challenge on part of the NPO's to develop systems and procedures within their organizations which can imbibe whatever they have learned and further build on the expertise and knowledge that is a combined pool and this is how these programs are carried out by different countries where social marketing has been a great success. The list of successful examples is quite long and all I can tell you is you just showed that such programs with the kind of savvy and knowledge which I have imparted with the help of the literature is something that we all should develop and make use of. Thank you very much.


So, essentially I was trying to tell you that you have L which is denoting the rank of the group to be specific rank of the league group and then you have those generators which I call it as H i H j which will be 0 for all i and j which is 1 to L and then I introduced. So, the remaining generators will be those which are excluding them ok. So, those you can try to make it as E plus or minus E plus or minus alpha vector i ok. So, the i will be of the algebra had n as the number of generators then it will be the remaining one should be even. So, if L of them are diagonal then the remaining n minus L should be even and you can pair it up as plus and minus right which is the raising and lowering generators and we write the state which is the simultaneous Eigen states of these diagonal generators which we call formally as a mu vector and H i will pull out the ith component of the mu vector. So, the vector is gone. So, this will be the notation that the every H i will pull out the ith component of the mu vector. So, these are what we call it as weight vectors weight vectors and they are L component vectors. So, this one will be for every L of the H i's you will have the corresponding that ith component will be pulled out for the H i operator and there are L of them. So, this is going to give you a L component. So, that is one and then I also taught you what is the highest weight vector is highest weight vector E plus alpha vector on alpha vector I am calling it with the. So, this one when it acts on lambda which is one of the mu's I do not know which one let me call it with mu subscript H ok. One of these weight vectors suppose all the raising operators on that particular weight vector is going to give you 0 for all I then we say that then lambda is highest weight vector and incidentally these alpha I's alpha I's they are also L component root vector these are L component root vectors. We can have number of simple roots ok. So, there will be number of simple roots equal to rank which will be L ok. In the context of SU 3 SU 3 this is 2 you have H 1 H 2 here you have alpha 1 alpha 2 are simple roots ok they are simple and alpha 3 is alpha 1 plus alpha 2. So, this is called positive root. So, these are the simple roots ok. Is that clear? Abstract notation and a example which is a non-trivial example which we went through. So, you have one positive root here. So, there are 3 raising operators 3 types of raising. And then I also said we can construct SU 2 subalgebras for any Lie algebra ok. So, how do I define this? I am going to call the J 3 for a particular root vector it could be simple root or it could be also a positive root. The way this is defined is alpha dot H has L components alpha has L components. So, you can do a dot product divided by the magnitude of this vector squared as the SU 2 Z component generator associated with a specific root vector. Is that clear? Put it in bracket. Similarly, you will have a J plus J minus associated with the same root vector same root vector that will be E plus or minus alpha vector. I think it is divided by mod alpha is my memory. The way to check it is that you need to make sure that the algebra of SU 2 is satisfied by that. The interesting thing about doing this is that then I know how to do the J plus J minus on any arbitrary state ok.  How does it do? And then you have a square root here with some coefficients. What is that coefficient? Is that right? I am just suppressing the H cross out of this. So, if this was if this m was the highest weight vector which means if m is J, then the A plus has to be 0 which is happening. That is the way I am fixing it. So, the same thing we could start doing it for these cases. So, let me put an alpha here. So, let me write another line maybe. See, interestingly you should see that these are all you know these are all numbers. Finally, I have to get a number I should not work with vectors here right. How do I get the numbers is the question you can ask. So, this m will get replaced by your weight vector, J will get replaced by your highest weight vector and then you have to take a dot product with the corresponding root vector. So, in this particular case it is 1. So, it is dotted with 1 and dotted with 1 in this case. So, when you have to do J plus or minus alpha on lambda and mu, lambda is what I have defined here.  So, this is the modification times lambda mu someone plus or minus alpha vector for the plus 1. Yes, thank you. It is so simple once you write it in this fashion whatever you know for SU 2 is what you extrapolate when you do the SU 3 and other things also follow for any abstract value. Is this clear? So, those are the SU 2 subalgebras in the Lie algebra which I can refine this way and similarly you can find what is the J 3 eigenvalue also. What is the J 3 eigenvalue mu dot alpha? Incidentally there will be a mod alpha squared and a mod alpha here, but then those vectors I am taking it to be of unity. So, you can ignore it for this case, but in general you should put that denominator and so on. Now, it depends on a matter of normalization. Sometimes there will be a by 2 here and then a half you know all those things have to be taken. It is an eigenstate, it is an eigenstate with the corresponding eigenvalue being written as the weight vector dotted with the root vector. So, this is the procedure of how to construct your states for every alpha you will do this and you will generate those states. In the case of SU 2 you had only one alpha which was one. So, you generated one state only along a line. Now, in the case of SU 3 you have two simple roots and one positive roots there will be three directions in which you can start generating the states that is what is happening ok. So, you can start with the highest weight state SU 3, you start with the highest weight state and then you have a direction which can give you let me call it as alpha 1 let me not worry what that is you have a. So, it turns out that this will be the highest weight because any ladder operation which I try to do will not give you will not give you those states these three states. So, this is the highest weight state. So, this is for the defining representation and similarly you can start taking tensor products of defining representations and generate higher dimensional representations ok. So, fundamental object can be taken to be the defining representation and you can start generating the higher dimension representation because in the case of the groups you allow irreducible representations to be of any dimensions. Unlike your discrete group great orthogonality theorem told you the character table which fixed you that these are the irreps. Now, when you compose two irreps it is reducible, but you can break it up into irreducible representations which can be of any dimensions. So, that is the difference between league groups and discrete group. Is that clear? We will do the tensor product. Any doubts on this? There is one more thing I wanted to introduce in the last lecture which I did not finish because the thing is just like simple roots you have fundamental weights. Fundamental weights are also L of them there will be L fundamental weights number of fundamental weights is L and we denote this by mu 1, mu 2, mu L. This has nothing to do with these three states. These things I called it as probably with a subscript 1, mu 2 and mu 3 and this one was plotted in the x and y were h 1 eigenvalue and h 2 eigenvalue. Are you all with me? Those were the three states for the defining representation and this highest weight will be one of the fundamental weights. So, this one will turn out to be one of the fundamental weights which is also the highest weight. So, now we need to determine the remaining L fundamental weights in the Young diagram language at least for S U N Young diagram will denote this, this one will denote it by single box, this one will denote it by double vertical box and so on. We will go on till the rank will be L will turn out to be N minus 1. So, you will go up till N minus 1 vertical box for the S U N other cases let me not get on to it, but this is the procedure that you will have L fundamental weights using these fundamental weights. We can write any irreducible representation of arbitrary league group in particular for S U N, what will the procedure be? There can be some N number of single box, some other number of double box and so on. So, let me write that also, any arbitrary representation, lambda highest weight for an arbitrary representation if I write it as A 1 times mu 1 plus A 2 times mu 2 so on.  Diagrammatically what I will do is the convention is to put single boxes on the right hand side and then double vertical boxes A 2 of them next to it. And so on, this is the notation. This diagram is equivalent to talking about any arbitrary irreducible representation where it has its highest weight is a linear combination of the fundamental weights. How many you are multiplying A 1 of the fundamental weight 1, A 2 of fundamental weight 2 and so on. So, this is the arbitrary irrep, I should call it irrep, highest weight, lambda denotes the highest weight. Now, what is the next question?  In permutation group we wrote the character table where on the column it was cycle structure and along the rows it was the irreps shown by the diagrams and we had a formula Hooke's formula Hooke's number to define the dimensions right. Here I need to find out how to define the dimension. This is also very close to the Hooke number, but there is one slight modification. So, the modification is that along the row we put integers which are increasing, along the column it has decreasing. Can you see it? It is decreasing and you start with N and entries along the row and you start along the column it should be decreasing. So, along the row it is increasing and so on ok. So, here it is decreasing and this will become N. So, it goes on like this. Whatever is the integers I have put in the box that will be the factor which will come on the numerator. So, the numerator. So, let us take a simple example and let us look at SU 3. The way the numbers will be put here is starting with 3 along the row it increases by 1, along the column it decreases by 1. So, that dimension of this representation or number of allowed states for this diagram just like if I had a single box number of allowed status in SU 3 it can allow up entry to be up, this can allow entry to be up, entry to be down and entry to be S. So, it was 3 states. So, the dimension of this representation is 3 and those 3 states are what I have plotted here. This is actually the up quark, this is the down quark and this is the strange quark ok. So, it is 3 dimensional defining representation is 3 dimensional denoted by a young diagram which is just a single box and explicitly you can put the entries on it and find that there are 3 possibilities because you are going to play around with 3 fundamental objects. For the SU 3 it is 3 fundamental objects with which you should play around. For SU 2 what is the dimension of that of this diagram? That single diagram can have an up spin or a down spin. So, it becomes 2 dimensional right. So, the single box if you take SU 2 dimension of this is 2 this is for 3 the reason is that you can either make this single box to have an up spin or it can have a down spin clear. Now, I want a formula this is simple to work it out, but I want a nice formula that if I give you an arbitrary irrep of SU n. How many states are possible? How do I do that? It is a question. One possibility is that I can take this diagram of SU 3. So, suppose I take this diagram of SU 3, I will tell you I am going to get to it I am just saying these are the allowed ones and we will get to it. So, suppose I have this diagram you can have can you have all things to be you is it allowed? The young diagram language tells you that along the horizontal it should be symmetric along the vertical it should be anti symmetric this is not allowed. So, this is not allowed. So, you cannot put 3 possibilities here 3 possibilities here and 3 possibilities here to give you 3 into 3 into 3 that is not allowed you all understand from this diagram. So, what are allowed? You can start enumerating them you can have along this same, but below it has to be either a D this is one possibility another possibility is it can be an S and so on. You start listing and list how many are there that is one way of doing it that is what we did even for the permutation group which is a symmetric group of degree 3. I took one diagram like this and I showed you that there are 2 independent possibilities linearly independent. Similarly you can list it out in the case of SU 3 the only advantage here is that it is not distinct objects. This box whatever object you put does not mean the other box should not have that object it can have a repetition that is the difference. In the symmetric group of degree 3 you had object 1, object 2, object 3 which are distinct. If you put object 1 in one box you cannot put the same object 1 in the other box the meaning is different. Here the single box can allow any of the 3 possible states the single box can allow any of the 3 possible states it is not 3 distinct objects repetition is allowed, but repetition with symmetric and anti-symmetric property of the diagram has to be formed. So, that is what is the young diagram by just looking at it you get the information. So, if you start listing it you can show that there are 8 of them. So, I am not going to say. So, there are 8 of them. So, which means dimension of this diagram is 8 for SU 3. How do I define such numbers without listing it out like this is the question for an arbitrary error is what is being dictated by this kind of a formula. A formula is whatever numbers are in these boxes how to put these numbers I taught you put that in 3 into 4 into 2 and hook number is what for this diagram that is the same as what you have done earlier what is the hook number 1, 1, 3. So, it is 1 into 1 into 3 what happens you get exactly 8 which is what I tried to start listing it out and you will get this to be 8 states possible. Incidentally, this one has 8 states the number of generators of SU 3 is 8. So, all these 8 states should be what also identical like the elements of the root vector it is a weight diagram for the there will be a weight diagram with 1, 2, 3, 4, and then 1 there will be a double circles and this one those are your 8 states. So, what was this it was UUD will turn out to be the highest weight and the particle which is seen in nature that particle is actually the proton.  So, what will happen here it will become d du and this is nothing, but the neutron. So, this is the electron is like your 8 fold path and this pattern there are other particles here which are also here which is sigma plus proton is a positive particle sigma plus this there is a sigma 0 here there is a sigma minus neutron is a 0 neutral particle. What is happening is that along this line if you start drawing lines like this not very good at drawing, but if you start drawing lines like this these are lines with same charge. So, you can see proton has positive charge this particle has positive charge is very beautiful and these are the looking at it at this pattern of how the charges of these particles are. Gilman came up with putting this SU 2 Lie algebra into action with appropriate normalization to fit in. So, each one once I draw a diagram each one is an irrep this irrep has an IS weight which is given by mu 1 plus mu 2 a 1 and a 2 will be 1 and 1 for that highest weight there are 8 states or the dimension of the C rep is 8 dimensional. This is another irrep the dimension of the C rep is 3 because there are 3 states. What do I mean by 3 states by the ladder operation I can go from one to the other. Similarly, by the ladder operation I can reach out to all the 8 states ok. Analog of this for SU 2 will be just up going to down or up spin going to down spin what about here? It will be a spin 1 which is the analog of this will be just the spin 1 which will be highest weight then magnetic quantum number 0 and magnetic quantum number minus 1. So, the SU 2 is sitting inside the SU 3 and this turns out to be this is a weight diagram, but because this weight diagram has number of weight vectors equal to the number of generators they are actually the root vectors ok. So, these weight vectors so, you can start plotting these weight vectors these weight vectors are for these diagrams there will be how many of them will be there they are 8 of them and these we call it as the root vectors there will be 8 of them for this. Are you all with me? These are two different irreps of the same SU 3 group. This is the lowest non trivial irrep which is 3 dimensional this one will be 8 dimension. So, the someone was asking me how do I find this mu 1, mu 2, mu l because I need to write this ok. So, that let me explain now how do you find that out and then we will get going yeah completely yes, yes you can do that I will I will come to it I will explain some more examples and we will come to it ok. This is one example, but you could have a completely this one is that what you is asking yeah this is not completely antisymmetric it is completely antisymmetric only for SU 2, but for SU 3 2 states out of 3 can be antisymmetric you understand. So, this what is the dimension of this can you work it out for SU 3? This is 3, this is 2, hook number is 2. So, you will have 3 dimension of this is 3 ok.  These are the 3 states which corresponds to this. If I take this diagram then a 1 is 0, but a 2 is 1.