My name is Dan Rundy. I hold the Shrier chair here at CSIS and we're going to be talking today about the Millennium Development Goals Achievement Funds contributions to Latin American development. We're very fortunate to have the the Kingdom of Spain as a sponsor, but also more importantly our friends at the Millennium UNDP's Millennium Development Challenge Fund here achievement fund helps co-sponsor this we have Mr. Bruno Morrow who is the director of the Millennium Development Goals Achievement Fund here I also want to recognize the presence of my friend ambassador Hill Casares who's here as well. Thank you for coming ambassador And we have a many friends and friends and family here from CSIS who's here who are here and many of you from the Washington policy community that are here, so it's really I think great I think we had a very interesting lunch discussion with a number of representatives from embassies from Latin America Before this event and some of them are still here Talking about the changed landscape for development from the year 2001 when the Millennium Development Goals were put together to the year 2013 It's a very different conversation. It's far more complex. There's a greater recognition of the role the private sector there's high levels the role of trade in development the Conversations about South-South cooperation and triangular cooperation and the incredible progress that's been made in many parts of Latin America Well at the same time and many development and social challenges still in the region And so we talked a lot about the paradoxes of development in the region and what the role of Traditional cooperation is whether it's bilateral or multilateral and we know it's we know it's changing so we've got two very qualified people to share with us their perspectives on this Very interesting set of paradoxes, but also to share a little bit about the role of the Millennium Challenge Fund in Latin America And I also think a little bit we should be thinking about this within the context of the post 2015 goals which are in the process of being debated and discussed as we speak so I think The rich experience of the last six years since the Spanish government made this strategic investment of a billion euros at the time To support the MDGs to achieve the million-dollar goes through the United Nations system I think is something that we have a lot to learn from but we also have a lot to learn from the great progress of many countries in the Region and so we're very very fortunate to have with us ambassador Harold Forsythe who represents the The the country of Peru and if you haven't been to Peru recently, I highly recommend that you go I was there ten years ago. I was there then two months ago It is another country. It's one of the reasons I got into the development business. I find Peru to be inspiring I think what's happened in the country of Peru is unbelievable or certainly in the in the city of Lima So I think that we have so much to learn from the successes of countries like Peru and certainly bilateral cooperation And certainly multilateral cooperation like the MDG achievement fund have been Supporting actors in that process. They're not the central actors. We don't do development out of development cooperation We're cooperating. We are supporting actors But without further ado, I'm gonna hand the floor over to ambassador Forsythe and then we're gonna hear from mr. Bruno Morrow Ambassador Forsythe the floor is yours. Thank you so much Thank You Daniel, thank you Bruno It's a great possibility for myself to be here representing Peru in such a prestigious Institution especially if we're gonna talk about something which is very dear to us, which is which are the millennium goals and The tremendous success that we have enjoyed Toward that path and of course our special gratitude to the ambassador of Spain here and through him to the government of Spain Is something wonderful to be considered an inspiration, so thank you for your words but at the same time just a few moments ago we were having a Short round table and we were discussing about the need of the concept of cooperation To to have some evolution according to the new realities of our region. Yes, it's true we're leaving the condition of low-income countries and These new challenges beginning for us middle-income countries and even High-income countries in some specific cases that poses a challenge and that we're ready to and we're open to listen for new options and We have to to reconsider and to redefine What cooperation has meant for us in the last few years and be prepared to Face the future. I will share with you briefly a few of the Most important things that we have achieved in regards to these Millenium goals and in regards to the corporations that the fund established Directly to this and the ever Social inclusion of poverty eradication are top priorities for the government of Peru and This goal in these goals imply that the state not only promotes economic growth, but also social development Peru has experienced remarkable economic development as evidenced by a sustained average growth rate of 6.7 percent over the last decade The economic monetary and fiscal discipline exercised by Peru has allowed his GDP to expand feed threefold While inflation ranks among the lowest rates in that in America All together the main drivers of this substantial growth are productivity international trade integration and clear guidelines for foreign investment in the fiscal year this current year the national budget grew by 13.5 percent Doppel in the budget science approved in 2006 The current budget in the effect spends more than half of its Appropriations on actions that have social and productive Benefits like for instance education health social projects and so on even before 2015 Peru had to fulfill various millenium development goals such as Reduction in the poverty rate From 54.8 percent in 2001 to 27.8 in 2011 Reduction in the incidence of extreme poverty from 16.4 percent in 2004 to 11.2 percent in 2007 Reduction in child penetration from 25.4 percent in 2000 to 15.2 percent in 2011 in 2009 chronic malnutrition decreased and reached the goal proposed for 2015 18.3 percent in 2011 Average student attendance in elementary education reached almost an equal parity between sexes and fulfill the goal 93 percent girls Versus 93.1 percent boys The infant mortality rate for children age 0 to 1 Declined from 55 per thousand life births in 1990 to 16 per thousand live birth in 2011 in 2010 the infant mortality rate decreased by two-thirds and reached the goal level proposed for 2015 which is 18 percent and In 2011 the mortality rate in children under five registered 25 deaths for children under five per 11 Per sorry per 1000 live births the mortality rate decreased by 73.1 percent and reached the goal level in 2009 which is 26 percent in other areas MDGs are almost completed In the last ten years the school enrollment rate has fluctuated between 91.5 percent in 2002 and 96 one not 96.1 percent in 2011 Peru is only 3.9 percent apart from the 100,000 100 percent elementary school enrollment goal Efforts to eradicate illiteracy have almost reached completion The illiteracy rate of progress between 15 and 24 has fluctuated between 96 percent and 98 percent in the last decade We are within one dot six percent points to reach 100 percent by 2015 So we're getting closer as you can see The goal of reducing maternal mortality by two-thirds is about to be reached maternal mortality fell from 265 to 93 deaths per 100,000 births between 1990 and 2010 maternal mortality must still be reduced in only 27 deaths per 100,000 live births in order to achieve the goal proposed by 2015 prenatal care coverage has also increased from 84 percent to 95 percent in the same period We are only five thought six percent points short of achieving the 100 percent goal by 2015 similarly the percentage of women in reproductive age using contraception has increased from 68 percent to 75 percent in 2011 and the percentage of people who have access to drinking water has improved from 70 percent in 2004 to 76 percent in 2011 Peru is only 4.5 percentage points of achieving the goal set for the year 2015 which is 81.3 percent Furthermore, the state is developing an STI awareness policy to reduce HIV AIDS transmission rates and has Significantly expanded coverage of anti-retroviral treatment to those affected Progress has been made in terms of legislation environmental issues and climate change Peru has developed a policy of economic liberalization and has signed several free trade agreements with major countries and economic blocks in 2006 Spain contributed 528 million euro That is 710 million dollars toward the MDG effort The achievement MDG's fund was established by the United Nations Latin America and the Caribbean is a region which receives the most resources from MDG F Four joint programs have been implemented in Peru. These programs have a budget of approximately 18 million dollars for the reduction of poverty hunger and food insecurity These programs include the implementation of actions in national regional and district levels Such implementation has been exercising the poorest departments of Peru The programs developed in Peru concretely are improving nutrition and food security for the Peruvian child a capacity building approach Budget 600,000 integrated adaptive management Sorry, six million dollars integrated adaptive management of environmental resources and climatic risks in high-end and micro watersheds budget three million nine 900 Inclusive creative industries an innovative tool for alleviating poverty improve budget five million Employment creation and MS MS MS ease for youth and management of juvenile labor migration budget Three million dollars in conclusion. It can be noted that the achievement MDG MDG's fund in Peru has been extremely positive for the following reasons It has been a significant contribution of 18 million programs 18 million dollars programs aim towards greater nutrition environmental protection and is see promotion and youth opportunities These programs have complemented the efforts of the government and social issues in Peru These programs have also focused on the poorest regions and more vulnerable Demographics these programs have also been focused on the rural sector where the largest social disparities are found numerous local communities and municipal governments have incorporated into their local agendas Interests and concerns about environmental issues a consortium of artisans and for collectives have been created a Youth employment sector plan has been created and in some regions original youth employment plan And I finished by saying that a wow a wassy labor pilot program, which is especially aimed For the care of children has been implemented and In effect this program has benefited more than 437 young mothers so young mothers. So this is see this is only a Simple glimpse of what's going on and that probably these particular results probably explain The impressions that you have visit in my country. So thank you for your patience Ladies and gentlemen, I've been I've been around the international development business for 11 years and I You want to hear statistics like that? You don't hear good news stories like that very often that we're in the bad news business This is a great. This is great news. This is inspiring stuff. This is very important stuff It's about the role of the private sector. It's about taking a long-term view. Yes The role of of international development cooperation has been important, but gosh it is Inspiring stuff. This is why people get into the development business is to hear things like the sorts of statistics that the ambassador at This is really fabulous and it's very inspiring. Thank you so much ambassador Bruno we've heard a little bit about how the Millennium Development Achievement fund of the UN system has made a contribution in Peru But perhaps you might share a little bit of a broad a bigger picture about how the MDG achievement fund What it is how it's made a contribution more broadly and what the innovations are and perhaps some of the lessons that we can Take away in this broader conversation about 2015 Many thanks Daniel. It is a pleasure to be here. Ambassador Forsyte Ambassador Silca Saris Paloma all present here is really a pleasure to be here today to share some of the Issues that Daniel has mentioned and I will go briefly with you not only About what We are doing with these funds, but also and with this development proposal with the mechanism But also how we are doing it because these two elements are very critical It's important to establish and agree on what to do, but also it's important to Identify the best way of how to do it to achieve The desirable impact. So I don't know we can go ahead with a quick presentation if we if the Slides are not on I can still go ahead just a little bit. Well, anyway, I will Right is from there Essentially This fund is called MDG achievement funds this the title the same title gives you an idea that The fund wanted to have an action to Accelerate the achievement of the MDGs when it was established in 2007 There was this feeling that we are not progressing fast enough. So we do it to do something Very important very strategic and very catalytic to accelerate the achievement because otherwise with a busy tremendous tremendous setback for development community having agreed in 2000 on Critical development priority globally and not been able in two years to advance significantly significantly toward the target that we established in 2000. There was a Prime minister who said okay, we agreed nicely for the first time. It was very important for the most important International agreement for concern Development cooperation policy ever on eight objectives But how so you take 20 years to achieve those objectives? How many years to reduce? Poverty of the second half, which is not included in those 40 years. So there will be tremendous. So at least Not having the capacity to Guaranteeing that we had a capacity to achieve this objective would be important. So in 2007 the government of Spain with a very courageous initiative established a fund with amount of 900 million To promote the Millennial development goal it the fund at the end of its activity. It will terminate His activity this year Supporters 130 joint programs on feet in 50 countries almost a little bit more than 30% of the funds and 30% of the total amount of joint program where in Latin America. So there was a Privilege for Latin America. It is interesting because Latin America we've heard is mainly Middle-income but 90% of the poor in Latin America coming from middle-income So this is extremely important to see how we had to address this phenomenon the program area I ate program areas within the Mandate of the a millennium of the millennial development goal and related children for nutrition gender equality and women empowerment climate change environment youth employment democracy Democrat economic governance Development and private sector conflict prevention and culture and development. So but as I mentioned before This is fine to agree on what to do, but how to do it and then we can go to the next slide For the first time This initiative putting into one place in one package four elements that very critical and the element critical to the policy of International policy for development in last 20 years first the MDGs the millennium development goal we are fine second is How to do it so they promoted what we call the Paris Declaration the Paris Declaration indicated Approved by all international cooperation Donor countries recipient countries It was internationally agreed civil society participated in all one that we need to have harmonization simplification ownership participation and the fifth one that always be forget But essentially is you have to work together pulling resources together and not A Different type of a development agency working everybody on their own without looking at each other So let's pull everything together So the mechanism applied to have a process that guaranteed all these five elements and we will go about it and the third element was to promote that since the The articulating agent the channel of this fund was the UN Essentially a one UN we never had a funds that really a Mechanism requested the whole agency the whole agency in the very several countries to work together And the fourth element which is connected to this one. This is if you consider the first inter agency for for development ever Generally the fund or the financing for development is bilateral a country an agency We don't have a mechanism with haven't established inter agency type of funding. This was the first time that requested the UN to promote programs with different agencies in line with the Reform of the UN promoted by the secretary general that is extremely interesting because who is the actor? Who is the factor that allow these working together is the resin coordinator? So it was the first fund who really empowered the resin coordinator to coordinate The rest of the activity of the agency the resin coordinator the country level usually have a lot of responsibility No authority so there is very is very difficult for them to coordinate without any authority being the political Responsible of the result of this program that gave the resin coordinators the capacity to pull together the agencies So this was the first the four elements that I think would be interesting to study In the context of the future the post 2015 what will happen in the discussion? So we have to discuss in the future to renovate review complement the new agenda for development up 2030 but also the how we do it these funds these mechanisms give important lesson on how to do it Pursuing and insisting on the positive indication that the national community give gave to us in the last 20 years for concern the how to do it the coordination the Complementarity the ownership as well so forth. So if we continue Daniel we have okay What is this mechanism is allowing is to address what we call multi-dimensional? Multidimensional challenges in development what one of the difficulties or of not working really? Together is that we address only one aspect of the problem. I give an example of emergency when you have an emergency all the emergency Actors intervene But if they're not coordinated for example, they establish shelter Two weeks later come and the agency establishing the water supply Four months later come somebody to reactivate the economic activity so on so forth that Essentially what the result is that all these inputs will get lost because if you put the shelter for water They will not go there if you put the water without economic activity in the shelter You still will not go there. So the essential element is to plan together That's why these funds are forcing the actors To work together in an intersectional way allow to have this Result and on top of it avoid so for lack of duplication increase coordination increase the comparative Advantage for that one how they did it. They didn't do it alone the agencies It was a multiple level in the next the next slide. So first it was the national government In the mechanism then there was the local government then involved. They were the local beneficiaries Then the donors agencies And the agencies involved under the coordination of the resident coordinator So that's allowed even if the funds important but little in the total fund for cooperation to have an impact on policy They established if you consider for government is also difficult. They don't have the culture to work together. You might Confirm me. You have minister location. They work on education They don't look so much of what minister of health is doing or minister of housing is doing So there is a culture silo sculpture in any country developing a development. They're working together Focuses on the territory and the target or beneficiary is the challenge there through this fund It's making we allow to overcome and when it was proved successful the government adopted it to other regions Which is upstream policy essentially so from local pilot to scaling up Let's go ahead with another. Okay, very good There are other consequences for the sake of time I will these are implication of working in a nice coordinating way the local level I would I would like to skip that one and push to the element of Ownership which is very important with this allowed and you can see a nice Relationship between what is central government ownership? local institution ownership and citizen ownership which brings a Democratic component to the whole development processor because the citizen can make The government accountable of what they agreed upon and can make the cooperation accountable of that This is the beauty of things because We we we were able to experience that a different a different level Promoting the local ownership is particularly important because you know that There is a saying that government changes but people stay So this is really important because they are See if we create a culture of accountability on the promise for development the people and the territory where the people the problem are will replicate the Request of being accountable on promises on the future Actors so there is a government actor. There is a level of continuity and creating capacity at the multiple level If we continue where I mentioned already there is a the Interest on the citizens participation what we What the mechanisms allowed to do that is that the participation was really across all the element not only in Deciding how to Design the program, but also at the level of the mechanics of monitoring and evaluation of the Progresses and also in creating certain capacity at national level to have a civil society active in monitoring evaluation so it was really quite complete and involved Different level of government and society As I mentioned before And The funds constituted the first incentive to work Together because it was meant to be interagency. This is if we think of the future if we think of a fund that will promote the The mdgs of the future We definitely will have to think of a new window, which is a funding window which pulls together Funding from different sources, but goes only to interagency multi-sectoral activities There is an element of promoting the UN coherence, which is important I would like to say models is not the most important thing, but it is important because we more and more Consider as an element that helps to put all things together There is a cohesion on different act of cooperation, which is allowed Essentially by the UN representing as an institution that has the flag of all the country and of the policy of the world so I Would skip the two two two slides and I will conclude this part of representation saying that we undertook some specific case study that Supposedly will be able to show that whether the Condition and the premises we started with were Fulfilled and we think that they were so we have Colombia, Egypt, Ethiopia Nicaragua, Philippines and Serbia all these were dissected and we proved there that all these Hypothesis were really positive were Fulfilled and essentially Are putting this program in the capacity to have an influence at the policy level much higher because they will be From a pilot a small program or relatively small program will be really translated in national policy level for national action many things Thank you very much. I was just struck by the Some of some of the themes that came out of the presentations one was on the issue of Local local projects to bring him to scale up Could you just talk a little bit more about that that Bruno and then I wanted to ask the ambassador if he could Just share with us a little bit His experience about why when people won't understand when why why Peru has been so successful What is it about? What is it about? Ten years or 15 is there been is there is there when you think about the two or three factors that have been sort of critical to Peru's success Over the last 10 or 15 years What what are those two or three two or three success two or three keys to the success? But while you're thinking about that I'm going to ask mr. Moro to to answer this question about this issue of Local to scale up because I think this is going to be one of the themes that's going to come out of the Conversation going into the post 2015 discussion that that is extremely important in Exactly in the post 2015 discussion, but it's important also for the reflection around how to make Relevant public policy what we have perceived is that general particularly Latin America, but in general now there is a Why spread agreement that Government and doing are doing are proposing are designing good Social policy a good economic policy in Latin America. There is small differences by everybody see each other Colombia see Brazil and Chile and Mexico and vice versa So they have a change also, but essentially these are policy that are designed at the national level Technocratically technically very well. There is certain participation of different actors, but we see The phenomenon of Latin America. They don't filter down. They don't trickle down As they wished and they pretended Latin America has is the government is they can't the continent Is the region which has the one of the highest growth? Which goes along with increase on a stream poverty or exclusion? So there is something that is that not allowing the trickling down the benefit of the increase We are overcoming that the example of Peru is interesting. They are finding out they are discovering what are they? the barrier for this exchange but one of the barrier is that You cannot make only national good Development policy social policy you have to start looking and where the policy will fall down So you have to go to the bottom and then you'll see that for a cultural reason indigenous that policy doesn't work For another reason Africa descent will not work We have excluded fringe in the in the outskirts of the city that are a mix of culture or difficult to get to Don't get the benefit We have a new culture that comes from the mix of different population that gets down around the cities So you have to get I make an exercise that goes down you make Exercise with those population we establish the making that works and then you adopted national level Which involves also creating a new culture in the civil servant of the country a new form to approach the beneficiary and not Only approach to give the beneficiary the status of actors and to involve them and be part of the Whole exercise that is essentially so how it is done Well, when you are going to the territory, they will not look when they feel or something that they need or the minister of education or the Ministry of Health or what they they they see the needs of the territory in a unique and comprehensive way So they will need to have this service all in one time all together That is why they will not work well Otherwise they will not complement each other or on the contrary they will affect each other if you have some good education We don't have health vice versa They will not work in the territory and if you don't have at the same time a promotion of your local industry local activity economic activity employment you have migration or you have the presence of Illegal or criminal actor and so on so forth on delinquency. So this is going to the bottom Making them participate and from the bottom check whether the relevance of the national policy is okay So it's from local to up to down. This is the concept Okay, ambassador tell us tell us how it how how is this happened? I want to have because that you know, like I said when we hear those statistics Those are not the statistics you hear every day. It's really obviously nothing It's not all perfect, but I think you you have really quite a case study to share with us Please ambassador. Yes. Thank you Daniel. I think it's a complex issue We Let me go back a little in history We had a so-called revolutionary process led by the military from 1968 to 1980 so The armed forces in my country began with the so-called structural changes Probably their intention. We're good. I have a personal good feeling toward those years But in 1980 there was a widespread demand to recover democracy not only in Peru But in every Latin American country and we were not an exception. So former president Fernando Velaunde won elections that year and He came back to power with very good intentions again for the second time But the situation had changed dramatically We had something that we did not know before debt External debt and we were part of this terrible scandal, which was the so-called Latin American debt crisis But not only that we began feeling the effects of wrong Very bad economic policies that have been implemented for so many years. So we began improve feeling the real consequence of economic crisis in the interior of the country and at the same time We began facing a new enemy terrorism with The so-called shining path Sendero luminos, but not only that democracy Was young was new and Was very weak in order to face all these tremendous pressure So in five more years with president Velaunde finish his term With a good reputation, but the country was in a very very bad shape that opened the door to populism So we had a government which led populist policies from 1985 to 1980 that did not work to 1990. Sorry that didn't work, of course that did not work and the country in a blind desperation Political parties were destroyed We have no Cold war anymore and in a blind desperation the country chose Probably a wrong path again the the so-called Fugimori government and then a dictatorship was implemented in a year and a half or so and That dictatorship dictatorship lasted for 10 years and four months. I cannot deny that the sound economic policies Began to be applied during those years, especially at the beginning and Of course the result was good, but at the same time We have no democracy. We had no freedom and we had widespread corruption Fortunately democracy came back in the year 2000 and since then we have had even for Constitutional elected governments as the one we have today and these governments have Have had and they still have the current government a very clear priority The economic policy should be stable and sound so the principle of Free market fiscal responsibility is there and we have been extremely careful with that So we decided not to be crazy anymore about economy so economy is a serious easel and I'm very glad that President O'Malley is extremely respectful of that past and At the same time we have been able to reach all these impressive results With democracy and with freedom and Bruno mentioned something interesting bureaucracy the civil servants we have been able to create to establish a Tremendously qualified group of men and women in the public service Especially in the areas of trade economy social inclusion poverty and of course that pace As we were discussing before this meeting began this is wonderful of course, but we still face problems The most serious one is probably inequality the most serious one and we have to do something about it because we are tremendously popular Region in the world because of our economic success But at the same time it is well known that we are the most unequal region in the world so So our situation in regard to that is even worse than the situation of Africa and At the same time there is there is an escoundrel which is extremely which has been extremely aggressive and that is crime and Of course drug trafficking so less of something about it and We will of course succeed. Thank you. Thank you very much I think we've got some weed. I'd like to open the floor to questions I know there I have a number of friends and colleagues here are very thoughtful So I think we have microphones. I'm going to I'm going to call this gentleman here with the blue shirt and the red tie you could just identify yourself and Yes, it's it on. Yep. Okay. I'm Eric leaf. I'm with the Stimson Center Thanks very much. This is a great event. I I've learned a lot already To two quick areas one of them is There was a there was a brief reference to innovative financing in the presentation Could you give some examples innovative financing means different things to a lot of us? Could you give some examples? Does this mean public-private partnerships? Does it mean loan guarantees? Does it mean? What does it mean? And the second one is the financial the current financial situation of the fund In other words from the funds point of view, what do you fund in the way of innovative financing? Why don't we bunch a couple questions together? The second one is what's the current financial status of the fund which means What's its current balance? Are there other contributors besides Spain? What is what does the situation look like going forward? Thank you. Let me just see if there's I see a gentleman back there as well Thank you very much for a wonderful conversation My name is OV and I managed a global innovation through science and technology a global program that's focused on fostering early-stage technology entrepreneurship My question is for Ambassador Forsyth. How do you see the role of early-stage technology entrepreneurship in actually contributing to the prosperity of Your country and also if you have any comments about the launch of startup Peru Could you let me I think I heard their question, which is how you this gentleman's with the with emerging tech and a tech marriage emerging technologies fund and how Does Peru see emerging technologies as part of the success of Peru is that is that does that capture your question? As but also for the future I know that Peru has is now launching startup Peru which is in a way similar to startup Chile Yeah, which is an initiative started by Chile several years ago So about the past but also about the future what sorts of initiatives there are Okay, why don't and that's sir Why don't we start with you on that and that question if you would and then maybe we might have Bruno answer the first question What I can tell you not been an expert in that area, of course is that science and technology has been abandoned for so many years in Peru Not only that investment in that particular area has been very poor and not only that our best men and women in this Scientific field and the technological field have left the country and there is There is a an incredible matter also. We have great universities Forming these people, but the the labor market in Peru is very weak in order to get them so they leave and There is there is a trend now in order to reverse that So there is a so-called concy tech there is a program that has been implemented that you has mentioned and The government is trying to to invest funds in order to develop a research in these specific fields science and technology and and of course Relate these areas to our processes of development. I don't think it's a it's an easy task But perhaps we're in the right track Thank you Bruno if you would the the questions from the gentleman from the Stimson Center At two level For concerned financing Innovatives initiative or innovative financing that One is at the level of the mechanism in the fund itself. What this shows Was that is that the indication coming from the party declaration when you establish mechanism for Development financing is absolutely economical For the economy scale to pull the resources together so the indication is let's Do a great exercise to agree on objectives agree on results agree on how to do it but pull the things together because otherwise you multiply your administrative Set up for to a minister each piece of the fund and will have a tremendous overhead on on on those fun That is what the second is more related to the fact that initiative by the private sector Established for a Development cooperation something that maybe is not tremendously new for concerned the specificity but is new to put together private sector fund initiatives government promoting private sector and and And the external cooperation the coming from the fund they were so there was they were initiative of Put together the capacity of the cooperation And funding from the state and from the private sector together through these initiatives So this is a putting several actors together around Share the priority. Let's go so we can get into detail whether it was macro financing or it was establishing a specific Facility for very excluded central population what it was cash cash Delivery or cash financing to Exclude the population so we can enter to detail but essentially is agreeing with different actor with the principle of a private sector In simple of the development of the local level and the government and international cooperation is this is what does the other refers to other other questions the future the fund the fund has been a Extremely efficient. So what means they spend a lot of almost everything what they had So there is not much now Said why we are closing Well, the issue is that that we are in this process when the process to And this is also part of this process to make the result of the fund known We have been so busy in doing things and less concentrating in the promoting things So we'll have this year and the process to post 2015 2015 just to prove It's a wider level The benefit of the fund for different actor to consider you can from an analytical or research type Point of view as a tremendous development experiment and they put 900 million 50 country 130 programs there is a wealth of material of findings of experiences that might take years Scientific development community to research to investigate and actually we are already getting to some agreement with some Academic entities well, this is one also we come from here, but we go to Columbia Harvard some other European though where we discuss exactly the innovation and the Replicability of this initiative definitely one of the Most important innovation is well, you have party declaration here You have the you went reform there you had the MDG there and that the country where the free to decide and What was really motivated the country to work was global public opinion and global agreements But if you see it the way they do their public policy MDG were not working to design or not used to design their public social public policy It was a consequence of the social policy But if you use the MDG to design your policies you increase a lot because it's instrument It is an instrument to design public policy. So The the wealth that we come out of this experience will be extremely of knowledge useful for the future so we have some carefully worded resources that we will use to promote and share this experience of Southern people and particularly with Academy with practitioner and with countries Essentially with country that the beneficiary for them to talk about the funds and not the fun to talk about itself Essentially, we'll be very happy to share What all the information that we have a continue this dialogue my thanks Other comments or questions this this woman back here. Thank you very much Yeah, thank you very much. Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you very much for the presentation I work for the multilateral investment fund Which is a member of the IDV and I'm a citizen of Spain So I was very happy to see the good results that we got in Peru my questions I have two questions actually the first one relates to the innovative financing that we just mentioned because going forward I wonder if you have thought about Innovative instruments what I mean here is that We see that for middle-income countries. We might need something different than grants and concessional loans But also equity as a way to move forward and if you've thought about this The second question relates to the citizen ownership that you had in a slide that is very interesting for me because I I actually find it difficult when you have a lot of indigenous populations to actually give the ownership to the citizens and I was very I am very interested in knowing What type of mechanisms do you have to actually give the ownership to citizens in this type of very Hitter heterogene Environment, thank you. I'm mr. Lloyd for the University of Maryland. My question is for ambassador for CS You made mention that the labor market is a very weak in Peru and concerning college students Yeah college students who or university graduates who finish the degrees especially in the technical and scientific fields if they couldn't find jobs are you in the business of encouraging This young people to engage in entrepreneurship engage in business small medium enterprise instead of getting employment and question number two is Do you have tie-ups with European countries? concerning your graduate students and To pursue degrees that are very much needed for the development of Peru. Thank you Thank you very much for for the Spanish colleague for your question because that is That is a very good question to as to present as press and clarify what I meant when We when I mentioned the difficulty to get nice good public policy design the national level to really Impact on certain set of population that constitutes still the need the the the core of the new Important future beneficiary because the exclusion as simple it is there Naturally, I'm happy that having the love voice here that she knows very well how to trickle down national policies From national to local level the difficulties from El Salvador where she was working there exactly this issue What you mentioned is important because when you talk to the To the indigenous the MDG's that don't doesn't don't make sense And with this fund what we did is okay. You design your MDG's So they studied it and they decided no these are not okay to answer to respond to To get the result on those eight points. We have fear five elements So we reduce our MDG's your mdg's to five elements Because they feel that they are Disintegrated Disarticulated Isolated it don't take into consideration culture. It don't take into consideration element that for them are essential to their life like when we hear harmony and the environment so You have to accept that you have this Element reducing so much poverty but when you go there You have to talk And and also they say what they are individually conceived not socially or Communitally conceived so the major element is there for them. The MDG's are conceived like for to Benefit the individual is not the community and they are a community Culture so the same for the Afro defendant descendant with a different modality so you have to change if you want to address the territory territory talk to about the harmony with the environment and In territorial and recognition of that territorial space and autonomy you have the health You have the poverty and you have the governance and so so for so you have really to to change the way you do You are public policy. So when you design it the civil servant at the local level is to enter in a different type of dialogue So you cannot send somebody for the capital You really are entering a different culture of applying public policy to the specific audience Ambassador foresight Yes, Daniel. Yeah, yeah, it's true that the That the market cannot Absorbs the tremendous amount of professionals that we have an impure and the the the case is serious during the government that I mentioned before the last decade of the 90s that Dictatorship that we Had to endure for so many years There was an extremely generous approach to allow when universities to to become legal So believe it or not, but this is extremely hard to believe and for me even harder to tell We have more than 100 universities in our country And of course ours is not such a big country and ours is not such a big big markets in order to absorb the amount of professional Professionals that that we have every year. So many of them leave the country which is absolutely Weird at the same time what we don't have our technicians Because everybody wants to become a professional that has been sold to the country as the good challenge and the the idea of Developing as it is in Europe in Germany in Italy everywhere Technical careers is not attractive for for the population So that poses a problem and the government will have to to see how to solve that and soon in the near future And about the other part of your questions. Yes We have agreements with with universities in in Europe and the United States and we try to encourage The best the real best students with the help of the state To to to have their postgraduate studies abroad Actually President umala will be here on the 10th of this month and One of his most important tasks in his agenda will be education. So he's gonna meet with several presidents of Several universities of the United States and we're gonna sign agreements With them regarding education for Postgraduate proven students, but not only that going back to that matter that the gentleman mentioned about Science that technology we're gonna sign agreements with these universities on Science that technology for bilateral cooperation Actually, I had that tremendous honor to meet with the president of MIT last week in Boston And we're beginning to do something with them and President umala will Will be traveling to Boston to meet with him and we're gonna sign something with them in that particular matter. I Think I'm just sensing. I'm what I think is I might ask you Bruno to make some Last remark because I said I'm not sure that I don't see additional unless there's not sure we are we double dipping I'm not sure we double dipping on questions if you're gonna do a quick if we could do a We can have we can have one quick you can make a quick comment. Oh my friend Absolute for JMF. Absolutely my friend Joanna Mendelssohn foreman who's a Senior advisor here at CSIS. We're very fortunate to have her's involved with the UN foundation before coming to CSIS Please jam Joanna Yeah, I just had a quick question for both of you because the questions that you're describing particularly for Latin America on the gap in Education for technically prepared people is not going to be overcome even with all the agreements that are signed with different Universities it's going to take a generation of at least 20 years to do it I was going to ask you what you were doing in terms of these mid-level technical schools I mean many of us remember I guess it was Gilberto Freire in Brazil who It was it was Freire but one of Who talked about vocational education as being something that was acceptable and some countries have really developed their vocational school systems To fill that technical graph. How do you see that coming forward in your education plan for you? Mr. Bruno in the next part of the Millennium Challenge and for you Ambassador Forsythe since Peru is now at a stage Which has you know become a much more developed country in a successful country How do you see? Technical education fitting into your development plans to absorb all of these young people who need jobs and need careers Before we get to that. I don't want it. I wanted to ask my ambassador. He'll Kasaris to Just speak as well Thank you very much. My question was for Bruno Morrow one one one of the big challenges All these funds have and we suffered in Spain is the accusation of lack of transparency Now have you come up with with an evaluation process that would In phase that challenge. Thank you, and I see I see Larry Knowles back there if you could we can call Larry I'm Larry Knowles with the Hewlett Foundation. This is for mr. Morrow I'm you mentioned about one of the achievements of the fund being greater UN coherence and and the principal or a Concept of one UN. I'm just wondering do you see evidence of maybe lessons learned by the UN going forward about how This concept could be applied more broadly and in other areas of their development work Just one real quick one. There was a there was a I thought I heard a question from our colleague on the other side of The room specifically about loans and loan guarantees For Bruno on the extent to which they were being used And I'm just just since the three of us are all Kennedy's co-alumns. I figure cut me some slack I'm fair enough. They get we this is World Bank style where you bunch the questions together to give the give the Participants a chance to think about how they want to answer the questions So so why don't we start with perhaps Joanna's question to both of you about education and how we how we deal with the challenge ambassador Well, I don't think I I can answer your question properly what I can tell you that last week precisely I had the chance to To talk to the chairman of our education committee in our country and he was Mentionally precisely that problem that you spoke about So we don't really know what is the government going to to do about that What I can tell you is that these congressmen Mentioned to me that we are in the process of importing if I can use that word technicians from other countries in order to work for instance in the ports Driving these complicated machines and they're making lots of money doing that. He mentioned the the case of those who? who lift the the cargo and And the their salary which was offered was around ten thousand dollars per month So I myself was almost ready to offer myself in order to have a chance Say yeah, there's a flight leaving for Lima right after this So this is this is more or less the case madam and let's see what comes comes out of all this Okay Thank you. Thank you Bruno, please. I don't know what I what I'm gonna say will will Satisfy you but one thing for concern the capacity to create jobs for technician for and people that Got some education some skill. I think that we Should try What we perceive from this experience to make a More democratic the economy of their countries most is don't we have we actually we have a window In in our fund, which is called the democratic govern economic governance Which essentially is to involve more local actors in establishing How the public service it will work and how also you promote their economy their facilities I think that the small and middle enterprises is a tremendous field for improvement because The sector that can create the highest number of employment and Also can have an stability the local level which is unique But you have to be able to help them to overcome the barrier their symmetries to get access to credit to Education to marketing so on so forth and which involves Rethinking of the way the state either central local or other institutions are doing this promotion and International we have tremendous experiences that we can share by the way Spain has certain level of Sophistication at the territorial local level that actually is absorbing a lot of the crisis that Might come from this difficult moment so in this direction, I think that we need to have to make the Economic culture in the region still more democratic and not just big enterprises CEO Or think no we go back to the territory to the people small and middle enterprises They can do very efficient particularly if they are in change They are clustering there is a support and so forth for concern the Great the UN coherence You have to motivate it If you don't who was a gentleman who asked me, okay, if you don't motivate it In spite of the statement Everybody will prefer to work alone So far there is no much motivation Apart from some declaration and so so forth. There are different elements that are an obstacle On that one, but one of the most important element which is missing is creating this new window funds Investment that go for inter-agency activities So in this sense, they are motivated to work together When we speed it we had with the fund were very difficult at the beginning because everybody wanted, okay I get my slice and I do within my life what I want there the Role of the resin coordinator was ascension and the fund established the resin coordinator at the end has only to sign It doesn't there's even the authority to sign normally that he will get The political accountability on the result. So I don't sign easily If you don't sign it is I have a power Or have an authority and This authority I pass it over to the rest of the people so they're okay. Let's do better the second round was my nicer the third and the fourth all other joint program even for other funding sources of funding We are down through the governor mechanisms established by the Spanish MDG trust fund So there is a culturally you have to go, but if you stop now you go back to a bad habit So I think that is important to pursue this line of action and with a post 2015 with your help and help other people to say okay But we have to entice to go together and that's not just to make statement and to say it in universal declaration Thank you could be Bruno. Could you talk a little about this issue of trend transparency and and and that the ambassador mentioned ambassador?  So we are absolutely keen on transparency transparency and accountability at all level not only in the management funds the results and to the people that are involved so for this we have Involved in a very cumbersome multi-layered multi-level exercise of evaluation national evaluation each national program is evaluated by Local and then we have a global evaluation going on right now that will Go through the different aspects of the fund we have on transparency the governance system of the of the fund which is practically is impossible Not to be transparent because you have their government beneficiary the donor The agencies and there isn't a coordinator a different level from national and territorial level so is a is an element of tremendous participatory approach and Empowerment of the beneficiary that then they really claim or you promise that you gave me that Otherwise, I don't want to talk to you Bruno. Can I just push you just a little bit for them? This is your transparency. I had breakfast this morning to with a friend of mine who's involved with the publish what you fund u.s. Initiative, there's a lot of energy in Washington both out of the World Bank Someone I think at the IDB as well There's been said it's reflected somewhat in u.s. Government policy through something called an assistance dashboard, but it doesn't go as far as what this Transparency a transparency initiative iadee is pushing for publish what you you know the publisher assistance Initiatives that are funded by open society Institute and and others the one campaign here in Washington's also been a big proponent of this Are you all? Signatories to any of that to that the iadee is that is that on your radar screen at all? Is that come up? Well, I just joined the months that I don't perceive that there is anything on that But but thank you very much. Yeah, I think we should this is something for us to pursue Offline we are interested to having all issues that can Work on transparency and be perceived like that. So it will be extremely open So let's just let's just come back to this you may not transparency and efficiency exactly exactly So I this may be this may be not it's not necessarily a fair question for you as as you've just figured out Where the espresso machine is in your office as of a couple weeks ago But this issue about the issue of loan guarantees and alternate financing mechanisms it may be that There were that this is the certainly the the Fomin which is the Organization that the woman works with is is working in that and there's the development credit authority Certainly government of Spain has a development finance institution historically the UN agencies have not done Development finance type Arrangements were there any examples of development finance type activities with with the fund that you can that you can think of And maybe that it that's not the case and that you did a lot around policy work to support the Support an enabling environment for the private sector or training for small meme size enterprises and instead of that sort of activity We have done something a certain level. I don't have really the whole information I don't have systematized it but we have done with a private sector certain Promotion in the sense, but I Commit myself to send you all the information for we're hoping you're gonna come back in the fall So we're gonna we're gonna have the we come back for the for the second round of this in the fall for the new fun Exactly, and that is exactly exactly Well, good. I think covered a lot of territory today, and I want to Really thank our two speakers mr. Brunamore and ambassador Forsyth for being with us Before we Before we leave though, I would really like ambassador hill kasari's to come up here just for a minute to just to just share some Reflections with us. It's really the government of Spain was strategic and really and and and really courageous in in in making this investment in 2007, I think it's quite important that The fund Share its lessons learned and so I ambassador, please if you would just reflect from the government of Spain, please Listen, thank you. It's so late that my reflexes are very going to be very very short on where I just want to thank first of all the CSIS for organizing this this Seminar on two faces the first one with lunch on on on Latin America and the second one and I want to thank Very especially ambassador Forsyth for having accepted to come and present the case of Peru and And of course Bruno more of our present in the whole this project Spain as as many of you know Was a recipient of for in it in 1982 so from then on with transition from from a I Mean using the old terminology from from a recipient to to a donor country and and it's through that experience that we've decided to Come up with this idea of Fostering multilateralism in as much as we could effective We've in in in in in this last year's And and for the years to come this there's been a new Development plan we've concentrated on less areas than before basically it's been Latin America as you've could have seen North Africa But also sub-Saharan Africa, especially the Echo Wash region Which which of course is is closer to us and with the the following the lines of the Paris the Busan and the Accra declaration we've decided to go on on on the line of Appropriation mutual responsibility But we didn't want to fall on this ongoing debate of whether to concentrate only on LDCs unless developed countries We thought that the Middle-income countries Were not only Countries that should We should concentrate on our development policy But it would have been sure sightedness not to look at them the examples that we've seen in Latin America and we were speaking about them This afternoon in the lunch will probably be very well, we're very well applied in in LDCs in other regions basically in Africa We I spoke and I'm not going to do it again. Basically we because we're already I think two minutes of the time That the issue and if you read all the reports of Serbia how the Serbian a European country a middle-income country receive funds They use them following the the method of This MDG fund In such a way that they're not going to be receiving anymore the project has been if you allow me the term embedded into the into the the administration of Serbia and and at the end different communities through the the project the process of Intersexual development have managed to come up With basis for development in their countries. They did it in a way that I mean and thinking and and I'm going to confess Here that my experience in Latin America unfortunately has not been that large I'm only in love with Latin America, but I've not worked with in Latin America so much Absolutely, absolutely and and my more Aristotelic love was with Africa and we're in which I've in which I've worked for ten years in in Africa many of the examples that have developed in in Serbia could very well be applied because of the different communities I know it's a different Communities in the former Yugoslavia than tribes in Africa, but the way this project managed To Overcome this this issue could very well reapply it in Africa in in all the LDCs in all the LDCs and then one other thing I like about this project very much is that Yes, maybe Spain Put nine hundred million dollars and maybe it's it's it was a whole lot of money And it was a whole lot of money. Let me tell you for Spain and anyway might be seeing it now but but It is true that when you see the the reports The figure that comes up is not that one is not it's cost that much But when you see the reports of the different projects you have but even numbered this has been this has helped to put into school 325,081 kids or this has up to Educating and in I don't know which Issue a single number of so so it's it's It's it's a project that in which you at the end see the people if you allow me Bruno and I congratulate you for that When when you when you read the reports, I encourage you when the report is over and I don't know if it is yet or To read it because you see it's a different type of project and and I think of the Of the experiences that they're going to emanate there of you were going to be there will do apply and in other projects in in in other areas and and that's probably the big change of of these MDG funds, but again, thank you very much CSIS. Thank you very much


In the wake of the Easter celebrations, Christians have been urged to imbibe and reflect on love and self-sacrifice to ensure peace and unity of the country. A Catholic priest who gave this charge at an Easter service in Cardona said Nigerians must put national interest above personal sentiment. Our correspondent, Abila de Rufi's report is presented from our studio. Three days after the crucifixion of Jesus from the cross of Calvary arose again on Easter Sunday. Christians faithful in Cardona metropolis guarded to celebrate with thanksgiving and prayers for the nation to come out of the current challenges fixing them. The parish priest of St. Paul Uguan Rime Cardona, Reverend Father Joshua Akshi, says Christ's sacrificial death and glorious resurrection are the eyes' expression of love to mankind. The note, not his virtues, inspired love from one to another, irrespective of religious background, sentiments, and even beyond personal interests. It's a message of hope that there is hope for a better tomorrow, there's hope for a better future, there's hope for a better stage. That's simply the message of Easter to Nigerians today, that in spite of what is happening, in spite of the situation that we have found ourselves, let us look with renewed hope that tomorrow we surely get better than today. The clergyman sees Nidrimal's rise up beyond the present challenges being experienced in the country, stressing that the leaders must ensure service to humanity. Peace is key to ensuring that the needed environment is created for things to thrive, where there is no peace, things cannot work well. Leadership is a gift and it is good that leaders see this and be sincere in the office to which they have been called into. Some of the worshipers, as Prince Joshua you've seen, the great season of Christ's resurrection, which signifies hope. A wonderful day in the life of any Christian gives us, as risen from the dead, to give us life, continue to hope on Christ, to bless the church in Nigeria and everyone, both Christians and Muslims. We're celebrating the resurrection, that is the renewed hope for our country and renewed hope for Christians in the world at large. So it is a great hope that everything that we are passing through, Christ knows it and Christ absorb it on the cross of resurrection. And at the resurrection today, he is telling us that yes, our renewed hope is with us. The appeal to government at levels, new political leaders, to ensure Nigerians enjoy dividends of democracy. Hello, hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


Welcome to Access a Trader, the number one community for those who are committed to taking control of their trading in order to achieve success, profitability, and longevity. Thank you for joining us. Here's Dan Shapiro to help you find your edge, master your process, and own your future. So say the second entry is 200 on a trace. So do you set your full buy, which may only be depending depending depending what with what the trade is. Yeah, depending what the trade is like if it's if it's a stock like Tesla. Well, number one, I'm always going to probably go not probably I'm pretty much all the time going to go with the whole number. So even so say for example, let's just say the natural pivot is like, like this morning was three, what was it three 233 27 right well it was right I'm always going to go with the whole number. Because that's where the that's always the liquidity is I'm always going to be hitting the whole the whole number because that's, you know, you're going to get pretty much get filled on everything that you want. So we're depending on the depending on the side of the trade. Yeah, I personally always do yeah I always personally do. Absolutely. Like so for example, Tesla and the video. Amazon. I, yeah, I mean I'm going to go at the whole number I pretty much every trade I'm going to go with the whole number. It's very rare. It's very rare that I'm going to go before the whole number. It's just, I'll sacrifice sometimes 4050 cents on the entry, just to make sure number one that number one that there's extra buyers extra sellers in that direction but that's where the liquidity is so for example, like you see right now Tesla's trading 2750 2760s right you're not going to get any liquidity you'd have to sit there, you'd have to literally sit there and accumulate stock and that's not that's not what I do. Yeah, I enter, I enter, I enter, I enter on the whole numbers yeah. If it's if it's a fast stock. That's only, that's the only, there's a couple, there's a couple of exceptions. Right, there's a couple of exceptions. There's a fast market, meaning that there's some sort of news. There's some sort of news in that stock, something just happened right. What I'll do is, if I, if it's a fast market and it won't get you know, what I'll, what I'll sometimes do is I'll go 2530 cents. Well, now we I don't look at we sucks, but 20 like if it's a fast market and there's a daily chart that's that's going really quickly. And if I really really like to set up and it's a stock I trade a lot. I'll go 2025 cents above, above the offer from trying to buy stock and I'm trying to sweep as much liquidity as possible but the majority of time, the majority of time, the majority of time I'll go at whole numbers. The only time I'll put a buy stop or sell stop. The only time, the only time is if I'm doing something with my inventory. And I just can't watch the setup, you know, I mean, like I just can't watch the setup and it's a very thick liquid stock, like a Microsoft and Amazon and Apple a Tesla very rarely test like a Tesla always watch.  But I'll never, I'll never put a market, I'll never put a market order, just because look, just because it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, it's 90, I would say 9095% of the time I'll go to home numbers round up around down yeah, round up around down yeah. The stronger the chart is, the stronger the chart is, meaning the more, the more measured potential, right so there's only two three dollars. I'll be faster taking profits because I know there's only a two three dollar potential but there's a $20 potential. I'll get more aggressive on size, and I'll start pairing out. Every two three dollars versus every you know dollar or so so. Yeah, that's one of the one of the very few instances that I won't do a limit order on a whole number. If it's like a really fast market or I'm just, I'm just occupied by other things and it's a fast market and I'll just put us, you know, I'll put a stop limit. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, no, no.  No, no, this two ways how I get out of the trade. Right. If a stock stalls out. Well, let me let me start from the, let me start from the, from the positive aspect. If the stock is going to my direction, I'll just put in, I'll just put in, I'll put in offers, I'll put in offers, either right before the whole number right the whole number. Or combination of both always put out offers because I'm trying to get back the easy and rebate. Because if you're constantly hitting bids taking offers, you see and start the start getting a little costly. But, but if a stock stalls out right if a stock stalls out and I know, hey, it's just not it's not it's not doing what it's supposed to go. It's supposed to do, I'll start hitting bids, like I'll start hitting bids 20 30 cents below, below the bid just to get out. But I'll never put in, I'll never put in a market order. Hi, Michael, have a great, have a great weekend. Welcome aboard by the way Michael. Welcome aboard by the way. Yeah, it's all whole numbers. Yeah. It's all whole numbers. The only way and I'll try to, I'll try to take it on one shot. I'll try to take it on one shot. The only way I very rarely add into a position. Very, very rarely. The only time the only time I'll really, I'll, I'll, I don't want to use the word chase and entry. I don't want to use that word. The only time I will go beyond the pivot.  I just, you know, I just need more size in the trade. But I'll try to get as much as I can on one shot. On one shot. I'll try to get as much as I can because the way that the way the pivots are set up because they're there to the point that that level needs to be aggressively attacked on that direction, because if it holds, I know the trade is wrong and I have to get out. So I'm trying to get as much possible liquidity on that level. So when the stock works, it's something, you know, it's something that I'm, you know, that I'm pleased with. And that's the biggest problem also like a name, like a docu like I didn't take any docu that because I didn't like the trade. I didn't take any docu I didn't take any Roku because there's no liquidity there. So even though, you know, the trades worked out pretty nicely, and the pivots worked out very nicely, I can't control the trade like that. It's almost like that. It's almost like the Roche Motel theory. You can get in but you can't get out. Right. So if I'm wrong, there's a real old buyer at the bottom of the range, you know, they're going to spread me out so aggressively I won't be able to get out. So that's why I kind of, I now to this point in my career, I like 85% of the time, I'll avoid the docu, you know, I'll avoid the docu Roku. You know, that type of trade just even Netflix, even Netflix, I haven't, I haven't really traded Netflix a lot recently. Even Netflix is not enough liquidity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, start Nicholas start with three shares. Start with three shares. So when you scale out, you can scale out, you know, you can scale out a third at a time, or start out with start out with four shares. You can start out, depending how big the range is, you can scale out one share in time. The whole paper trading thing, it doesn't make any sense, because you don't have any skin in the game. You don't have any, you don't have any, you don't have any, you know, you don't have any emotional attachment to the trade. It's like, you can put on a Tesla trade and come back two hours later and go, Oh, I knew it. See, I did great. I bought Tesla, you know, I shorted Tesla 233, now it's 227. We all know it didn't work like that. Right. So you always want to have, you always want to have some skin in the game for sure. You always definitely want to have some skin in the game. Yeah, you definitely want to have some skin in the game. That's not a good thing. You're getting used to your platform, but you have to have skin in the game. Even if you take a three dollar, literally a $3 loss, like in other words, a slice of pizza loss, at least you're mentally have skin in the game. That's very, very important.