We're going to be looking today at Luke chapter 12 verses 49 through 59 to begin our read verses 49 and 50 But I'm going to give to you a little bit of a review that goes back to chapter 11 in order that we can pick up here in chapter 12 at 49 and 50 and understand the context and and Excuse me what Jesus is saying as we look at this passage. So let's begin reading in Luke chapter 12 verse 49 I'll read to verse 50. We'll get into our review and then move into our study Luke writes in chapter 12 verse 49 I came to send fire on the earth and How I wish it were already kindled But I have a baptism to be baptized with and how distressed I am Till it is accomplished now Jesus has been speaking and we've been following this particular train of thought since chapter 11 At beginning at verse 37 Jesus has been speaking And has been ministering a variety of things. You see he had been invited to the home of a Pharisee and While he was at dinner there with the Pharisee as you'll remember it's found in chapter 11 Jesus began to speak and as he began to speak he was clearly Speaking against the hypocrisy of the Pharisees So in his teaching he made it clear that Pharisees were overly concerned with rules and regulations he said they were more concerned about outer formalities and They disregarded the spirit the spirit of the law the reason that God had given the word of God to them in the first place And what they had done is they had made man made rules in the making of those man made rules So they actually closed the doors to those who had entered into heaven He had said in chapter 11 verse 52 Woe unto you lawyers for you have taken away the key of knowledge You did not enter in yourselves and those who were entering in you hindered And so he's been speaking against religious hypocrisy hypocrisy especially the rule-making Pharisees and the way that they did that you see the Pharisees were known to be those who lived for the praise of Band but they cared not for the praise of God and they didn't care about other people And so Jesus said you care more about outer Appearances of righteousness. That's revealed by the variety of things that you do. It's revealed By your concern about tithing of herbs. It's revealed by your forgetting the more important things of the law It's revealed by the fact that you love the best seats in church and you thrive on public Attention and recognition and how you load people down with soul-killing and burdensome rules Now as Jesus has been teaching this there's been a result to his ministry Sometimes we wonder what is the fruit of Jesus's ministry on this particular case? The fruit of his ministry was people getting angry at his message The people who are there the Pharisees who were at that particular dinner party began to verbally assault Jesus Christ and question him They got extremely angry at him for the things that he was saying and all it says in in chapter 11 verse 53 and 54 as he said these things to them the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail him vehemently and to cross examine him about many things Lying in wait for him and seeking to catch him in something he might say that they might accuse him that was the result That's what happened as these people heard a message from the lips of Jesus Christ instead of saying God be merciful unto us We're sinners indeed. This is true We have loaded people down with burdens that we ourselves won't won't even use a finger to lift from them It's true. We do tithe mitten herbs and all kinds of things and we have forgotten the way dear things of the law We we have disregarded justice. We have disregarded love and and in this we we have sinned and therefore we're sorry They didn't act that way at all. They were absolutely the opposite of that They got so upset at him that they actually began to entangle at least to try to entangle him in his speech They wanted to find fault so they could form an accusation against him That's what happens sometimes when people are convicted when they hear something in the Word of God that that pierces them rather than saying that's true God forgive me We can have a tendency sometimes of defending ourselves and and pointing a finger back at the person that we feel is pointing a finger at us and so instead of hearing the rebuke and Instead of repenting they tried to get to him now in the meantime as it says in the beginning of chapter 12 in Verse 1 a large group of people had gathered together to hear what Jesus was saying and and Jesus had stepped outside of the home of this Pharisee and and the crowd has formed around him and the Pharisees are continuing to ask questions And the people are now pressing around so that they might hear what he says It's probable as I mentioned to you before that the people crowding around him would think favorably of the Pharisees and so they're the ones who were in the most danger and that's why Jesus begins to speak in the way that he Does these people need to hear what he has to say and so so he encourages them And and he begins to teach them and and actually what he does is he encourages them to pursue that which really matters Remember in chapter 12 verse 31 how he says seek the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you Rather than like being like that man in the parable that he gives in the first portion of chapter 12 a Man who thought that his life consisted in the abundance of the things he possessed Jesus said the first thing that that you really need to do is to seek to have a relationship with God and Have fellowship with him and love the Lord with all of your heart and and the things that are necessary Will be given to you God will supply your need He doesn't supply your greed, but he does supply your need and he does so abundantly And so pursue the Lord first and pursue the things that really matter Because as he said in verse 23 life is more than food and the body is more than clothing It's it's much more than the outer appearances It's much more than what you're wearing today or what you're driving today Even what kind of home you live in what neighborhood you have or what kind of diploma you possess It's much beyond all of those things the life actually consists not in the abundance of the things you possess but rather in a relationship first with the Lord and And those whom you love the most and so that's what he's been saying He's been saying to them you need to pursue those things that really really matter and so as he's doing so He begins to minister he ministers to them these things so that they might enjoy the Lord and and enjoy having fellowship with him He closed that portion by exhorting his disciples to live in a state of readiness He's preparing them and has been preparing them for his death his burial and his resurrection But now he is also preparing them for his return He had made it clear that he was going to die and all because he had spoken Concerning Jonah and he had said that in chapter 11 verse 30 And he had said as Jonah became assigned to the Ninevites so also the Son of man will be to this generation So he already had appealed to the reality that Jonah who was assigned to the Ninevites Is also signing that Jonah was in the belly of that great fish for three days And all Jesus would be in the bells of the earth for three days So he's already alluding to the fact that he's going to die that he's going to be buried that he will resurrect But he's also saying listen because that is true. You need to be ready So last time we were together we looked at verses 35 following and we saw how Jesus gave parables Relating or relating to his return in all and we looked at those closely last time we were together He's basically saying be in a state of readiness because I'll return And what you need to do is you need to be busy serving Jesus Christ until he returns You're to be a faithful steward you're to await the return of your master even as one awaits the return of their master from a Wedding feast and if you're faithful you'll receive a great reward But remember this you have been given great things and therefore you're going to be held most Accountable so this is where we come now as Jesus continues to speak in verse 49 And so he says in verse 49 I came to send fire on the earth and and how I wish it were already kindled But I have a baptism to be baptized with and how distressed I am until it is Accomplished I came to send fire on earth. Jesus tells them his purpose. Why did you come Lord Jesus? Well here he tells us why he says I came to send fire on the earth now as we think about fire We need to remember that fire basically does two things fire consumes and fire purifies So Jesus is speaking about fire in that sense I have come and there is a certain reality to the fire that is hitting the earth when it consumes But to it also brings purification What I want he's saying and you see that in verse 50 I have a baptism to be baptized with what he is saying is very simply this I have a work a work of salvation a work Salvation that soon will be completed I'm going to be crucified and When I am crucified my death is going to satisfy the righteous demands of my heavenly father My blood is about to be shed. I'm about to be buried But I will arise on the third day and I will send the spirit The Holy Spirit is the one who's going to purify he will purify believers He will empower believers and he will set the stage for ultimate judgment One of the things that we need to understand very seriously, especially in these last days Is that we can get caught up having an outer appearance of righteousness even as Pharisees did To be known by the things that we do not do and not be known by the things that we do Many years ago. I was reading a book and it was written by a man by the name of Francis Schaefer And Francis Schaefer was pointing out something that I'll repeat I'll basically paraphrase but in reality he was pointing to the fact that that the mark of the Christian always has been Love it always has been there's a birthmark that we have that God has given to us It's the mark of our father and and that mark is the mark of love And and it's been said that we're you to have spoken to somebody in the first century and Were you to have spoken to them in this way and asked them this question if you'd have said to a first century individual Can you tell me what a Christian is? You'd have gotten a lot of responses But what they would generally have ended up saying is this they would have ended up generally saying Christians Yes, we know who Christians are Christians are the ones who follow that one named Christ Christ us and If you said yes, that's true. They're followers of Christ, but what do you know about them? They would have said to you those are those who love It was well known in the Roman in the pagan community that Christians loved each other as a matter of fact It was so well known that that was actually looked at it's been unnatural and some of the philosophers and those who argued against Christianity during the first century Actually would say that Christians were unnatural. They had unnatural traits about them They have a weakness about them it was called humility to the pagan humility was something that was really a weakness and They also loved strangers They even have things that they have written where you can read some of the ancient writings of the historians and all and and they Will say things like these people are very unusual They even love strangers and they call strangers brother and sister and some of them would go so far as to say that makes them an incestuous group of people because how can a brother marry a sister and they use that as an argument against the The philosophy of Christ and the lifestyle of Christians But in the early days if if you were to ask somebody what is a Christian? They would have said it is somebody who loves that's what Jesus had taught us Isn't it Jesus said by this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have love one for another Greater love has no man than this and a man laid down his life for his friends You are my friends if you do whatsoever. I have commanded you and So the mark of the believer from the very beginning was love he who loveth not knoweth not God for God is love So beloved let us love one another and you see that from from book to book from chapter to chapter and that all comes back to Jesus Christ And so as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we've been called by God to walk in the power of his Spirit I cannot love without God's Holy Spirit within me giving me the ability to love beyond my natural Abilities to do so you see like Jesus on one occasion said he says well if you love those who love you What makes you any different than the average person a publican does the same thing they love the family members They love those who love them you have to learn to love your enemies You have to learn to lay down your life for those who don't love you because that's a greater love That's the kind of love that God had for the world when he gave a son Jesus who did that for us We were his enemies well, we were yet enemies Paul tells us in Romans chapter 5 Christ died for us And so we at one time were rebels against him enemies against him and out of love for us God so loved us that he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross Before we had been reconciled to him as a demonstration of the death of his love and therefore as believers We need the power of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit who purifies our lives and the Holy Spirit who empowers us We need the power of the Holy Spirit in order that we might be able to do the things that are pleasing to God I cannot please the Lord without his help. I need the power of the Spirit That's what makes Christianity different than any world philosophy is that God will give to you a command Love your neighbor as yourself and then he gives you the ability to perform that command by Supplying to you the energy the Spirit which enables you to do that And so as an evidence that you're walking in the Spirit Well, the fruit of the Spirit is love and so as we have a relationship with God we're being purified Our lives are being transformed because fire does that fire has a way of purifying it It cleanses the dross and we also are receiving power from the Holy Spirit to live for Jesus Christ And so Jesus Christ says here I came to send fire on the earth and how I wish it were already kindled I have a baptism to be baptized with how distressed I am till it is accomplished And so he's saying I have something that I have come to do I have a task that I have come to accomplish in verse 50s He calls it a baptism a baptism to be baptized with all of these things this Purification this work that God is going to do this this making people aware of their sinfulness so that they can receive Christ And be forgiven all of this hinges on on his death on the cross And that's why he says I have a baptism to be baptized with it all hinges on his giving up his life now The question has been asked Didn't Jesus enjoy himself while he was on earth? I mean could it be that when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane and he was saying Lord take this cup for me Could it not include the fact that he simply enjoyed being alive walking on the earth? You know enjoying fellowship with human beings and all of that and that perhaps he would even miss Walking as a human being and all well Jesus would answer that question here and he would say no that's that's not it at all I have a baptism to be baptized with and how I am distressed until it is accomplished I have something on my heart the reason that I came for this purpose that I came and it's my great desire to Fulfill that which God sent me to do so no I don't want to remain behind I want to die on the cross for you, but it's interesting how he speaks about being distressed That word distressed Speaks of his being in anguish Now I have an anguish that I'm about to endure and this is what's occurring as he's thinking ahead of the suffering He's about to endure that word distressed means to press together to be held Completely it can speak of a prisoner who's in bondage. It also speaks of that one who is afflicted It can speak of being constrained and so what he's saying is my mind is on this one thing and the one thing that my mind is On is the baptism that I have to be baptized with the one thing that my mind is on is my death The fact that I'm going to be taken. I'm going to be tortured I'm going to be placed on a cross and I am going to brutally die is on my mind Constantly and yet I desire that to take place That's what he's saying in verse 49 when he says how I wish it were already kindled I have a desire for this to be done because I have come to do your will Oh God even as it is written in the volume of your book In John chapter 12 at verse 27 Jesus said this he said now my soul is troubled and what shall I say? Father saved me from this hour, but for this purpose. I came to this hour Am I saying take me out so that I don't have to do this? No, I came in order to accomplish this The cross is before me. I have chosen to embrace it It is my desire to die in order that I might pay the ransom price I will pour out my blood and in doing so I will bring many people into a relationship with the father So I'm distressed. Yes, but I desire for this to be accomplished in Mark chapter 14 verses 33 through 36 Mark writes how that Jesus took Peter James and John with him and began to be troubled and deeply distressed and he said to them My soul is exceedingly sorrowful even to death Stay here and watch he went a little farther and fell on the ground and prayed that if it were possible The hour might pass from him and he said Abba father all things are possible for you Take this cup away from me Nevertheless not what I will but what you will and so he said I came to send fire on the earth I wish you were already kindled But I have a baptism to be baptized with how I am distressed until it is accomplished This is what I have come to do to embrace that cross and even though I would desire another way There is no other way and therefore I am going to do what my father called me to do He sent me to do this is the purpose that he sent me with and I will accomplish it I will embrace that cross. I will die But you need to know this do not let my life be given in vain May the Holy Spirit purify you and may the Holy Spirit empower you so that you can be Transformed by that sacrifice in order that you might be able to go out and do the same thing that I do Give out the word lay down your life for others in order that they might enter into the kingdom of God He continues in verse 51 and he says this do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you not at all But rather division For from now on five in one house will be divided three against two and two against three Father will be divided against son and son against father mother against daughter daughter against mother Mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law I heard a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law say amen just now how come on now This is to me interesting and I want you to see this with me. I want you to see verse 51 I'm gonna spend just a moment there, but I want you to see this In verse 51 he asks a question look at the question with me He says do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? Do you know that the average person today would say yes, I suppose that They would say that yes.  I mean, didn't we just recently hear this during the Christmas season? Don't we hear that every Christmas season? The Jesus Christ came so that he could bring peace on earth Didn't he say peace on earth and goodwill toward men well then what's going on here and all well look what Jesus Christ said You need to see this you see when we've studied the passage there that speaks concerning peace on earth and goodwill towards men Literally it isn't and goodwill and peace to those who are men of goodwill What it speaks about is that people who have goodwill in terms of relationship with God and others Those are the people who are gonna enjoy the peace that comes through Jesus Christ But peace is not going to occur without the prince of peace. Here's the problem though People think that Jesus Christ came so that we could all just get along and the point he's making is well That's not really true and some of you in this room understand exactly what he's talking about here Some of you know that you're living that situation right now We've had people over the years for the many years who have come some escape from Circumstances as they come to a Bible study on a Wednesday night or a Sunday night or a Sunday morning Or whenever we have opportunity to gather some are actually literally escaping from situations They're coming from homes that are filled with anger and bitterness and confusion and division And a lot of it has to do with the fact that somebody came to Christ and and perhaps a husband or the wife didn't appreciate that Or the children are chaotic because the parents are now trying to walk with Jesus and the kids don't want to I've had kids who have rebelled against their parents and the parents have come and spoken to me and have said to me You know my kids have said they liked me better as a drunk They don't like me now that I'm a Christian. They liked me better because I was harmless I was happy all the time they thought and they could get away with whatever they wanted And now that I'm sober and now that I'm walking with the Lord and I'm trying to to bring Christ into the house They don't want to come to church on Sunday. They get angry at me because I'm too involved They don't like the way that I've I've turned out and they're angry I've heard that many times over the years or a husband who liked his wife in a certain way and And she got saved and she began to change She used to go with them out to Vegas He used to do the things that he wanted to do and she didn't have a problem with that She'd go to the bar She'd go out to dance to do all the things that he wanted now. She doesn't want to drink anymore Now she doesn't want to take the money and gamble anymore Now she wants to serve the Lord and the husband gets upset it happens all the time So a kid gets upset at his parents or the parents get upset at the kids or a husband will get mad at the wife The wife will get mad at the husband a mother-in-law will get mad at the daughter-in-law and say what happened to you You changed and then you changed my boy and now my boy isn't going to my church anymore You know what? I'm talking about some of you are living through that right now My son was raised in this church. He's baptized in this church. He received his communion in this church He was confirmed in this church and now he's going to that Protestant cult. What's going on? We've heard that numerous times. We've received phone calls from parents who were upset What did you do to my son and one lady in particular? I still remember to this day who called up and said what happened to my son I could handle him as a druggy, but I can't handle him as a Jesus freak And they get upset over that they get mad over that Jesus said that's what's going to happen But notice how he begins here. He says do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you not at all, but rather divisions now During this time There was a common theological belief that was held by many religious Jews And in this belief and let me outline it for you. It'll take a moment to do I've gotten it written down. So I'll read it to you during this time There was a basic set of expectations concerning the messiah And what would relate to messiah? They believed first that before messiah would arrive there would be a time of terrible tribulation Then before the coming of messiah, there would be a forerunner who would be sent a man like elisha And third after those two events messiah would appear and would immediately establish his kingdom Now the unbelieving nations would ally to fight against messiah But the nations opposing messiah would be destroyed for their opposition After that jerusalem would be restored And would be the city of the great king The jews who had been scattered throughout the earth would be regathered to israel Israel would then become the center of the world and all nations would be subject to messiah After messiah began to rule the earth would enter into peace and joy eternally So they're looking at jesus and they're saying aren't we supposed to have peace because if you're messiah You should be fitting into our eschatological Mapping of how things are supposed to be Our last day's scenario And and shouldn't we be having peace right now? So jesus is actually correcting that because something they didn't see Was the the birth of the church They didn't realize that god was going to reveal a mystery that paul speaks about in the book of Ephesians When he speaks of the mystery of jesus christ church who is the bride of christ They didn't see that mystery. It wasn't revealed in the old testament to them They had the scriptures, but did not see That god would become flesh as he did And so when jesus came as messiah, they were not anticipating a new work where gentiles would actually be brought into the family of god That's why Race in in scripture is interesting because in the old testament you have people humanity divided into two You have jew and gentile from genesis on as you begin to read the bible You see that being revealed that ultimately when the nation of israel comes into existence You have jew and gentile, but in the new testament humanity is divided into three You have jew you have gentile then you have the church, which is the one new person So from the jews and from the gentiles god has created what is called the new man Which is actually taken out of both the gentile nations as well as the jewish nation And now whether jew or gentile if you have jesus as your messiah you become one in him and therefore A gentile can be a brother to a jewish person based on their faith in christ So the church was not shown to the old testament saints the way it is revealed in the incarnation of christ And that's why jesus is speaking here and he's saying Do you think do you suppose that i came to give peace on earth? He's actually speaking about the common belief of his day that that he was supposed to usher in peace But then he goes on and say not at all rather divisions And then he tells them the kind of divisions as we read a moment ago From now on five in one house will be divided three against two two against three Father will be divided against son son against father mother against daughter daughter against mother daughter in law against mother in law This is going to bring division instead of instead of us Becoming unified he's saying instead of homes being unified because because somebody's a believer in reality What's going to happen is you're going to have some problems.  She really is But I happened to hear her actually I don't even remember. I wasn't watching the actual program. It was a tape of something that was shown later on during the day on a news program But whoopee goldberg is on a show called the view some of you are familiar with it perhaps you watch it the view and And she was discussing faith in christ with hassle You don't remember her name hassle hoff is that hassle man hassle Hassleback Um, see I know, uh, but anyway my favorite show, but she was talking to this young lady who's a believer About About intermarriage about marriage of people from different religious faiths And they were discussing the reality of a person is not a christian and they marry somebody Who is Then how are you going to raise your child and what faith will you raise your child? Some of you people understand that argument, by the way, some of you people go through that Some of you have been endured that and understand that very well You married somebody that doesn't share your faith and and so how do you raise them? And that's what they were talking about But what I found it was interesting is this is that whoopee was saying, um She's saying why not just give them an opportunity to decide what they want later on in life And you see the problem is is that's the common way people think today who don't know the lord They don't understand the depth of religious faith You see the the conflict that we're having in the world today between the fanatic muslim radicals and all of that It's it's religious in content. It is a religious base to it There is a spiritual motivation to it and and that's where people who are or are not committed to any religious faith at all Those who are committed lightly or in name only that's where they miss. That's what they miss. They don't understand that And the fact is is if i'm a genuine believer in jesus christ and actually read the bible and believe it and actually try and Do that which god calls me to do it is going to cause division There's just no way it's not it is going to cause division Because as I read the scripture and I see jesus making these incredible statements and all If I believe those things it's going to change the way that I live I mean here's some things that and I won't give you a lot of things There's here's some things that that you have to deal with if you're a christian and all People people really have a difficult time with this In acts in acts chapter Four the bible says salvation is found in no one else There's no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved There's no other name given in heaven among men by which we must be saved no other name No other name The jesus in john 14 6 said I am the way the truth in the life No man comes to the father But by me or paul in first timothy chapter two verse five says there's one god and one mediator between man and god the man christ jesus So when you see things like there's there's no other name when you see that there's only one way jesus himself saying that When you see timothy being told by paul don't forget there's only one mediator if you really believe that If you if you really do i'm assuming we who are in this room as christians that we do Then how can you say that buddha is equal to jesus? How can you can you? Can you in your religious class your your classes that you take in secular colleges? I have comparative religions and all can you can you say oh, yeah Well, mohammed had some teachings and jesus had some teachings and and the hindus have some teachings and they're basically all the same Can you honestly say that well, of course you can't you see there's an exclusivity to your faith in christ That does not allow you to say that buddhism is equal to jesus christ Or that the muslim faith is there's an exclusivity now that doesn't mean that that is a a war mantra So we go out and we pull out the sword and we start fighting and if you don't convert we cut your head off That's not what it is because it's a battle for the heart. It's a battle for the soul It's a battle through the power of the spirit through the gospel and the message And it's especially a battle that has fought in love and prayer love for the people and praying for them and and all of that And and and but the fact of the matter is is that there is going to be Conflict and that's what jesus said in matthew chapter 12 verse 30 Jesus said he who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me Scatters abroad if you're not with me you are against me Everybody in this room knows greg glory all of us know him his ministry is a wonderful ministry anointed by god has been for many years and and greg has shared on on Occasion when he gave his testimony how that that he was at school And and he heard an evangelist who had come on to campus and the evangelist there the christian guy was sharing and And as he was sharing the gospel during his presentation of the gospel the evangelist said Either you are with jesus or you are against him and quoted the scripture I just read matthew 12 30 and greg glory says that for the first time in his life He realized that since he was not with jesus all along He's been in opposition to him and he said that pierced his heart and and made him realize that that all along He's been scattering rather than gathering and that was the scripture that spoke to him that drew him to salvation in jesus christ That scripture that awakened him to the reality that you're either with him or you're against him. There's no neutral ground There's no in between. There are no pacifists in this spiritual war. You see Either you're for the lord or you're against him and that scripture That's why the bible says choose this day whom you will serve and that's why joshua says as for me in my house We will serve the lord So there are choices that are made you see and jesus is speaking about that and so he makes that very clear Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth?  It speaks of being divided into opposing parts This is one of the reasons why some people Hesitate to say yes to jesus christ because they're aware of the fact that they may lose their friendships. They may lose their family You know this church first began we used to meet in a place small place on vine street in the city of ontario It was called the church of god seventh day and I was teaching there on a sunday morning and the church was was was small We had maybe 60 people in church at that time It was and our church was was in its first few months of existence And so I still remember as I was there. I didn't give invitations on sunday morning. I knew every person who showed up I knew everybody They were all sinners, you know, but no I knew them all But at a certain point I started thinking I ought to give an invitation I should probably give an invitation. I hadn't given an invitation. And so once sunday morning, I remember Giving an invitation if if anybody in this room needs to get right with the lord Then I invite you as we bow our heads, you know, raise your hand and and uh, and uh, somebody did and and I said Come forward and there was one person a young lady named tracy And she came walking forward and she stood right in front there and I prayed with her and and afterwards She walks out, you know with a follow-up minister and and I was there talking to people And she spent some time with this follow-up guy and then she came walking back in And she walks up to me and starts to speak to me and she said She said David, could I could I ask you a question? And I said sure she said look at I just as you know I just gave my heart to jesus and and i'm born again and I said isn't that wonderful She said it is but I I have a problem. I need to ask you some some direction on I said what isn't she says Well, I have a boyfriend. His name is frankie and frankie's in oregon. He lives in oregon right now. She says, um, he's not a christian What am I supposed to do now that i'm a christian and my boyfriend's not a christian? What am I supposed to do? I said well tracy what I would recommend you doing is is uh one give him a call Call him up and speak to him. Tell him what you did today how you gave your heart to the lord And and tell him how important it is that that he gives his heart to jesus christ Now if he doesn't give his heart to the lord Then he's an unbeliever You've committed your heart to christ the bible says you're not to be involved with unbelievers and therefore The second thing you'll do is is if he doesn't give his heart to the lord Then you're gonna need to break up with him And she says is that that's what i'm supposed to I said that's what the bible teaches We're not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers and so if you're gonna follow the lord you need to make a Complete dedication to him and and see what god does tracy, but call him up and talk to him Well, I see her the next week and she says you know what happened and I said what she says I called frankie up I said yeah, she says and and i'm speaking to frankie on the phone and I said frankie I got to talk to you about something and he says well, wait a minute. Let me tell you something He says today. I didn't have anything to do. I went to church and and tracy I gave my heart to jesus christ today And do you know what they started they they he came back They they stayed together. I performed their wedding forum dedicated their children for him and and frankie is now in virginia And he's planted a church there. He has a bible study. You see you don't always see it divided Sometimes god brings it together. So don't be so afraid. I mean if you're out, there's no hunger nor lose them Maybe you should you know, but that's a that's that's another subject altogether, but See but the fact is is that sometimes you do and jesus said that will happen But there's got to be something greater That motivates you and that is the pursuit of the lord jesus christ You see jesus is worth following whatever the cost may be song 27 verse 10 says though my father and mother forsake me The lord will receive me In john 16 verse 33 jesus said i've told you these things so that in me you may have peace in this world You will have trouble but take courage. I have overcome the world You will have peace in me, but in the world you won't so just put your trust in me.  I'll say really do you clean up your room and they tell you to Why would I do that? Well, well Well, if you're telling them how to get to heaven and they can't even find your bed because there's so much trash in your room You ever thought about that or you ever thought about going into the backyard and doing some work when your dad's more in the line You ever thought about getting out that old weed wacker and helping him you ever thought about that You ever thought about putting your faith into action Or do you think it's just holding a bible shouting at people that they're going to go to hell if they don't ask Jesus into the heart Live for the Lord in such a way that it's winsome in such a way that it's attractive in such a way that they begin to Wonder what happened to you and then you have earned their ear so you can explain And if they don't give you an opportunity to explain You can continue to pray seek the Lord perhaps a co-worker a friend a family member somebody on tv or a radio program might reach their heart But jesus made it clear some people are going to completely and finally reject you and that's the way it is continuing on First 54 he also said to the multitudes whenever you see a cloud rising out of the west Immediately say a showers coming in so it is And when you see the south wind blow you say there's going to be hot weather and there is hypocrites You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth But how is it that you do not discern this time? Yes, and and and why even of yourselves Do you not judge what is right? When you go with your adversary to the magistrate make every effort along the way to settle with him Lest he drag you to the judge the judge deliver you to the officer the officer throw you into prison I tell you you shall not depart from there till you have paid the very last might And so in verse 54 To 56 jesus is simply saying this you can predict that which is natural the weather But you cannot even see the signs of the time and that's true today We have experts that predict trends in every area of our lives We have those who are stock market experts and fashion experts and entertainment experts and music experts and child care Experts and marriage experts family experts We have people who are experts in the trends in education and politics ecology real estate We even have people who chart the trends in religion I mean we have people who are experts in all kinds of things But the point is is people can be capable of identifying trends But remain spirit remain blind to spiritual truth So jesus says this is hypocritical because you pretend to understand But in reality you're not even noticing the times you can see but you are unwilling to discern You can see rain clouds and and you can feel the south wind below But you can't see the clouds of grace and you can't sense the wind of the holy spirit And as a result of that you're lost You pay more attention to the constantly changing weather conditions than you do about the things of the lord You cannot see that messiah is standing right in front of you. You're so caught up in the material You cannot even perceive that there is something called spiritual and jesus is saying that's why you cannot even see who I am You see that you see the weather, but you can't even sense what it's really all about In verse 57 interestingly he says yes, and and why even of yourselves do you not judge what is right? Why are you letting others direct the way you think about me? Why are you not making up your own mind instead of allowing others to influence you away from me? It's like that time we were recently speaking about this when jesus asks his disciples Who do men say that I the son of man am who is influencing you? There are people even in churches like this and this church has happened more than once Where where I have given an invitation and and people have actually had we've had in the past We had a a young man and his girlfriend actually getting in a fight in in one of the pews in the back Because I gave an invitation and she wanted to go forward And he was fighting with her and getting angry at her during the whole time You know that I want to go for no you don't go forward and they were fighting in church It was mike and noreen callahan. I was very Very upset over it. I I told him I wouldn't say it, but I had to no It's no. I mean that has happened that has happened where and that's some of you've experienced that Where where the spirit of the lord is saying you need to get right, but somebody's whispering in your ear Did you receive christ the first time you heard the gospel? Did you have anybody tell you come on? Don't get so upset over that don't get into that years ago years ago when we used to meet in ontario on maple street I was given a bible study in uh first carinthians And as I was going through the passage It spoke concerning certain sins And there were a variety of sins including the sin of homosexuality So as is my normal process I gave as full of teaching as I could and spoke about those those things that that paul was writing about The next week I I talked to a young lady Who gave her heart to christ? And she said to me I was here on wednesday night When you were teaching on homosexuality She said I was with my girlfriend She says because I've been practicing lesbianism And as I had opened the bible like you said and began to read along with you and you began to explain explain those verses She said I began to listen carefully to it And as I listened to it I was convinced that that's what the bible actually said concerning what I was She said I left the church service and my girlfriend and I were driving back to our place And my girl says to me That's his opinion That's not really true. That's his opinion She said but you know what she said I looked at it and I thought about it She said even prayed about it She said and as I looked at it I I told her that's not true. That's exactly what that passage is saying She says I want you to know I left my girlfriend this week I've decided decided to follow jesus christ that young lady now lives in oregon And she's married and raising a family because the word of god has a way of setting you free Instead of letting other people tell you The holy spirit is telling you and that's what jesus is speaking about why even of yourselves Do you not judge what is right you're listening to what the Pharisees have to say the religious experts of your time describes Here I am standing right in front of you. You see the way that weather is in its natural sense Why are you not seeing who I am don't let other people influence you away from jesus christ He says in verses 58 and 59 closing When you go with your adversary to the magistrate make every effort along the way to settle with him Lest he drag you to the judge the judge deliver you to the officer the officer throw you into prison I tell you you shall not depart from there till you have paid the very last might If you're taken to human court Don't you think it wise to try to settle quickly? Don't you want to settle before you stand before the judge try to settle out of court? Because if you can avoid being dragged before a judge That's a good thing because that judge may not side with you well You have a heavenly judge a judge who will Judge you entirely fairly Based on your merit You're going to be found guilty You're going to be judged And you will never be set free From this you will have no hope of ever being set free So you need to settle your accounts now Settle your accounts with the lord now Because it's too late when you stand before him in judgment It is appointed unto men to die once But after this judgment he was 927 But jesus said He who hears my word and believes on him who sent me Has everlasting life And shall not come into condemnation But has passed from death until life And so if I hear what jesus is saying and receive him Then I am not going to stand before him as the righteous judge Because I have already received his forgiveness And he will not condemn me for I have been ruled innocent through him But if I do not have the wisdom to receive that which he's already offered me Then when I stand before him all I can receive from him is the righteous judgment And as he says in verse 59 you shall not depart from there till you've paid the very last might In other words, you're not going to depart at all because you'll never be able to pay all that you owe So It's wise to settle accounts before you stand before that judge


I'm very excited to be able to introduce our speaker today, appearing from sunny Australia, and he is Brad Page, who's the executive director of the CCS, Carbon Capture and Storage Institute, actually CEO. A job he's held for 10 years. Before that, he held high level advisory and oversight jobs in Australia, in electricity and natural gas markets. His education went through the University of Canberra and Cambridge University. So one thing we've tried to do in this seminar is maintain balance across all fuel resources, renewables and also fuels with appropriate controls. So right now I'd like to turn the podium over to Brad Page, who will talk to us about why CCS matters in a net zero emissions world. Brad, take it away. Thank you very much, John. So first of all, thank you very much to the Precourt Institute for Energy for the opportunity today. And right at the outset, I think it's important to say that here at the Institute, for us it's about addressing climate change. It's not a competition of technologies. And so anything that I say today is not in any way a criticism or a competition with technologies, all of which are going to be necessary if we're to address climate change successfully. So we might just start by talking about the Institute because we're not necessarily that well known outside of those who are deep and close in CCS. So we're an organization that's member owned and we're an international think tank. We have 85 members in total around the world that includes and we're a bit unusual in this sense that we have national and subnational governments as well as multinational energy companies, technology providers, quite a range of research organizations and a small number of NGOs, all paying fees to support the activities of the Institute. We have a simple mission. It's to accelerate the deployment of CCS globally. And we are indeed a global operation with our head office being in Melbourne, Australia. We also have offices and locally employed staff in Washington DC, Houston, London, Brussels, Tokyo and Beijing. And over the course of the next few weeks, watch this space for a new announcement of an entry into a region that we're not currently in right now. It's always a good question that I get as to why on earth are we based in Australia? Seems a long way away from the action. And to put it simply, coming up 12 years ago, the then Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, came to the conclusion that the world needed an organization that would accelerate and support the deployment of CCS as part of the response to climate change. And so with a very generous seed capital funding, the Institute was established by the Australian government but was actually never a part of it. It was almost Australia's gift to the world. And so we were established and are indeed an Australian company. But to be clear about it, the majority of our staff are not in Australia. They're actually overseas. So we are truly global in nature and are always appreciative of the initial support that the Australian government provided. So the context for the Institute and the context in a way for what I want to talk about today is that it is only about climate change. And if you're going to talk about climate change, you've got to talk about the Paris Agreement. And the critical decisions in the Paris Agreement from our perspective, are first of all the temperature objectives of aiming for two degrees C and ideally below that, perhaps as low as 1.5. And as a side note, let's remember that our current trajectory is greater than three degrees C. So we're definitely not on track. And a big and net zero emissions to be achieved in the second half of this century. And a good friend of mine, Dr. Julio Friedman at Columbia has a great way of framing. This and I'll never do it justice, but he keeps saying it's really just about the math and I happen to agree with him. So having been trained in economics, this frankly is a classic stock problem. There's simply too much of this stuff in the atmosphere and we keep adding to it. And until we get the stock back into the right proportion, we're going to continue to make this worth. Now, as a general observation, and it is generalized, you can find different pathways out there, but a two degrees C pathway generally implies that we're going to cut emissions above somewhere around early 2000 levels by 85% by mid-century and then continue to reduce them to zero over the second half of the century. 1.5 is a little more aggressive and requires 100% reduction in emissions by mid-century. And after that, we are likely to continue to have residual emissions and we are likely to have overshot actually the carbon budget and we'll need to actually engage in carbon dioxide removal. You have to have net zero emissions for obvious reasons. Any emissions that go in return us back to the stock problem, we've got to avoid that. And we're going to have to remove any residual emissions and that's generally regarded as being at least five, maybe 10 and probably more than that gigatons per annum by mid-century that CDR is going to have to contribute. These are not trivial amounts. Now the IPCC did some particularly valuable work on this and you can see their special report on 1.5 and I'm sure there are many people churned in today who are much more expert on this than I am. And I'm certainly not going to run through the four different pathways that the IPCC provided to illustrate what could be involved to achieve 1.5 degrees. But sufficient to say that pathway one is generally regarded as the one where lifestyle changes are very substantial and fundamental for most people in the world and especially in the developed world. And to that extent is a very difficult pathway to imagine can be achieved. The remaining pathways have their various points and merits but I think one of the things you can see that distinguishes for example, P2 and P3 from P4 is that P4 very much shows a delayed uptake of emission reductions and that you see that you're somewhere around 2050 before you are crossing over that zero line but the rate of decrease from around 2030 is dramatic and certainly much steeper than the other pathways. What I really wanna point to here is that is that in all three of these pathways there is a very substantial role for carbon capture and storage. Illustrated in P2 and P3 to a much lesser extent in P4 by this shaded blue section of the figures. What's also included here is significant amounts of CO2 removal from bioenergy with carbon capture and storage. And you see that it's at its greatest in pathway four but it's still significant in three, perhaps not so much so in pathway two. Now, just for those who are concerned about the appropriateness of bioenergy, let me make the observation that in talking to some of the lead authors and principal authors of this report, at the time that this was done there was very little data available on direct air capture with CCS. And as a result, Bex has rather become a proxy for anything other than nature based solutions for the removal of CO2. So we should understand that there is, this of course is at a moment, it's based on the best information available. But since that time, of course, we do have better understandings of direct air capture with CCS. And that would play into this if this were to be redone in the future. But the point to this is that it's very hard to get away from needing carbon capture and storage both to avoid emissions and also to be a significant part of carbon dioxide removal. So we have an uncomfortable reality, quite frankly. One of the most uncomfortable things is that existing capital stocks will overwhelm a 1.5 or two degrees C carbon budget. And I say that based on IEA analysis from 2018. And to be honest, it's probably got worse not better since then. So the IEA found that existing global energy capital stocks and they did have to assume their normal engineering capital life. Will consume 95% of the CO2 budget under their sustainable development scenario which modeled a two degree C future. They also found that 1.5 degrees wasn't possible unless you had anywhere between 100 and 1000 gigatons of CO2 removal in total, I might add, by 2100. What this implies is you can't build any new significant emissive energy facilities because 95% of the budget's already taken by those that exist. The truth is new and very emissive energy facilities are continuing to be built in many parts of the world but it does particularly focus in Southeast and East Asia. And I've heard Fatih Barol, the executive director of the IEA on quite a number of occasions now, make the observation that in Asia alone, the average age of the coal fired power station fleet is just 14 years and that if they were to be run through to the end of their engineering lives, you would be seeing those facilities run to somewhere between 40 and 50 years. The planet really can't cope with that. So to achieve climate goals requires among many other things I might add, at least the premature retirement of existing facilities and at an enormous scale or many, many gigatons of annual abatement using carbon capture and storage on those facilities or most likely a combination of the two. And it's always important I think to try to get a sense of the scale of challenges. And in this case, the carbon dioxide removal challenge is often underestimated in my view. So if we were to work out what roughly all the people on the Earth way, that's about a half a gigaton. And I might add being an Australian, I do do these things in metric. The global annual production of plastic is about one gigaton. Our global annual consumption of meat is about a third of a gigaton. And I put that in there because of course we know that intensive livestock rearing for meat production and consumption is one of the significant contributors to a range of issues in the environment but including climate change. The size of the annual global oil market is about five gigatons of materials and not CO2, five gigatons of material. And as I said earlier, the annual carbon dioxide removal requirement from around 2050 is at least five to 10 gigatons and maybe much higher. So if we think about that against the size of the global oil industry and I think we all appreciate how large that is, CDR alone is gonna require an industry at least the size of the current oil and gas industry but operating in reverse. And it's worth remembering that industry has been built over more than 50 to 100 years in many countries. This is no small challenge and it's a perspective we have to remain conscious of as we talk about what are the options for carbon dioxide removal. So to CCS, we say it's vital to net zero and we also say it's a game-changing technology. I wanna start by being absolutely crystal clear. Zero-emission electricity is absolutely a huge part of the answer to climate change. In fact, it's probably the dominant part but it isn't the whole answer and it can't be. We have hard to decarbonize sectors and these generally need carbon capture and storage to address their emissions. This is steel, chemical, cement, fertilizers and plastics as a range of examples but again, it's not the whole list. There are also new opportunities for communities and new fuels to be made and used by applying CCS. And especially I wanna talk a little later about the hydrogen opportunity. And what we've also been able to see and pleased to see is that the commitment to net zero emissions is rapidly increasing and increasingly an important recognition that BEX and direct air capture will be essential for carbon dioxide removal. Consequently, we've been seeing CCS coming to the fore quite dramatically over recent periods. So let me share with you where it's at. So each year, usually at the COP meeting we release our global status of CCS report and what I'll take you through today is actually an update of what we released around about the time of COP last year noting it didn't actually happen because there's been a few changes. But the good news is that the pipeline of CCS facilities is continuing to grow. We're seeing an increased broad-based commitment to NZE as I said before and that happened especially during 2020 and perhaps surprisingly given the pandemic and the impact of economic recession in parts of the world. We were able to witness policy and funding support for CCS increase during 2020, notably in the US, UK, Norway, EU, Japan and Australia. And there are three factors that are enhancing the business case for CCS around the world. First and I think most significantly are enhanced tax credit arrangements in the United States. Secondly, we're seeing the emergence of what we call hubs and clusters as a new part of the business model. And finally, hydrogen as the fuel of the future. But what we need to bear in mind as I take you through this is that to meet the modelled role that CCS needs to take to get to 1.5 and net zero, capacity has to increase by more than 100 fold between now and 2050. So the quick snapshot, 66 commercial CCS facilities operating right now. Sorry that we can identify right now, 26 of which are operating. I just wanted to spend two seconds on the term commercial. Whilst we have some tracking of very small scale and experimental pilot and demonstration plans, our focus, the reason we were set up was to focus on the large scale in use commercially viable facilities. And that's very much what we present in this report. So there's 26 operating now. There are four under construction, another 34 at various stages of planning. And at the moment, two facilities have their operations suspended. One is involved with enhanced oil recovery in the United States where the oil price doesn't support its continued operation right now. The second regrettably, its host facility suffered from a significant fire and was damaged badly and will come back online once all of that damage is repaired. In 2020 alone, we identified 17 new commercial facilities at various stages of planning. These 26 operating facilities capture and store very close to 40 megatons of CO2 per annum. And the total capture capacity of these 66 facilities if they all come to fruition and operate as design will be 115 megatons of CO2 per annum. Now, this chart gives you a sense of what's happened over the past decade to the whole pipeline for CCS facilities. Now, one of the things that I have to admit is that I started in this job in 2011. And you can see the impact that I had right through to 2017 which was not necessarily great. The good news is we've come out of that depression and coming back up the other side. And I saw my opportunity and announced about six weeks ago that I'll be leaving and retiring from my career towards the end of this year. I figure you should always go out on a high. And a high it's going to be because what we've seen since 2017 is a continual increase in the total numbers of projects at various stages of development and in operation which has been a complete turnaround from the difficult sets of circumstances CCS faced for a good six or seven years. What is interesting is to see that between 2010 and 2020 the total volume of CO2 captured and stored from in operation facilities actually trebled. And that we've seen a return to new projects at various stages of development both early and advanced increasing substantially. And indeed between now 2019 report and now 2020 report the total numbers of facilities increased by one third. And that increase is actually unprecedented. It's the greatest that we've ever seen. So I'm not going to talk through all of this bubble chart as we call it, but a couple of points. The red line roughly approximates to where we are today in 2021 everything to the left has already built and operating by the two facilities there lost Cabin and Petronova that are suspended. Everything to the right is either under construction or is it at an advanced development stage? We've not listed here those facilities that are in earlier stages of development. What I really want to highlight here is the versatility of CCS as a technology in dealing with emissions. When you look down the left-hand side at the various applications for CCS that we're seeing now it ranges from cement production through iron and steel power generation, hydrogen creation, ethanol fertilizer production and natural gas. And I also just want to point out that the first CCS facility came online in 1972. So we're rapidly coming up to 50 years of experience with carbon capture and storage. And my point about that is you'll regularly hear that this is an experimental technology that has no track record and nothing could be further from the truth. To the right, what I also find interesting and this is being driven largely by policy arrangements in the US is that we've suddenly got at advanced stages of development a whole series of potential facilities on both natural gas and coal-fired power generation plants. All of those are, sorry, all bar one of those are in the US, the Bridgeport Mooney one, which is very small there is actually in Australia. So that's where we're at. That's the history and what's before us. It's a huge uptick in engagement at a commercial level for CCS. Now I mentioned I wanted to talk about hubs and clusters. And it's important to understand that in the CCS value chain, it starts with capturing the CO2 and most emitters have the capability to operate plant that will capture their carbon dioxide emissions. But then you need to actually transport it usually in a pipeline and you need to store it in the subsurface. Usually emitters, unless they're in oil and gas, don't have the skills, the capabilities, nor necessarily the business interest in that transport and storage in. This has been for many years a real difficulty for CCS. What's emerged rapidly in the last three to four years is a recognition that large-scale emissions tend to occur in hubs or in clusters of industries. And you can see them in places, especially in the north of England, in the Tees Valley, where there is a very large range of different industries located there, all of them highly emissive, all of them needing to deal with their emissions. What they need is somebody else to come along with a pipeline at their gate, saying you plug into this, sure you're gonna have to pay us, but we'll take away the CO2 and we'll store it and it's our problem. That has grown from probably a half a dozen hubs and clusters we could have identified three or four years ago to now totaling 15 at various stages of development around the world. The Alberta carbon trunk lines, noted here as number one and ACTL, is in operation and has been for over a year now. It's foundation customers is the Redwater Oil Refinery on the one hand and the Agri-Im Fertiliser Production facility on the other, and is now talking to a range of other emitters who simply have to capture their CO2 and plug into that pipeline. Important drivers here have been involvement and positive involvement from a policy and a financing perspective from both governments at a federal and provincial level, and undoubtedly the Canadian approached pricing carbon has also given those sorts of incentives. The other one I wanted to talk about is in Norway, the Northern Lights Project, and without going into extraordinary detail here, what this is really important for is that for the first time we are seeing commercial enterprises in the form of Statoil or now Equinoa, Shell and Total, joining together in a joint venture to create a storage site for commercially taking CO2 from other emitters. This is not about dealing with their own emissions. This is about being prepared on a pay per ton basis to accept the CO2 from other emitters and to store it commercially for the long term and certify its safe storage. This project is underpinned by the Norwegian government's Longship Project and Longship is seeing the development of capture facilities on the municipal waste incinerator in Oslo as well as the Brevik cement plant just outside Oslo. This is definitely worth watching because we're seeing the emergence of a new business line. Now you'll recall that I spoke about us having a challenge to deal with the difficulty carbonized sectors and that CCS very much holds the key to achieving this. Now the IEA did some further valuable work as they always do in the sustainable development scenario and they identified that CCS or CCUS, we use those terms interchangeably here I might add, between 2017 and 2070 would actually be about 25% of all of the abatement that would have to occur in iron and still would come from carbon capture and storage. 61% in cement, 28 in chemicals, 90% in fuel transformation, hardly surprising and about 16% in power generation. And again, I find that hardly surprising because there are many, many new and low-cost technologies that are renewable and zero emission coming through in the electricity sector. So CCS is clearly going to be incredibly important to decarbonizing these emissive sectors. And when we look at how much is that, and this is not perfectly able to be correlated because this runs to 2060 rather than 2070 but it is for cement, five gigatons in that period, about another 10 for iron and steel. And as you can see here, just short of a further 15 gigatons for chemicals. And I just want to remind you at the moment, we're very upbeat about what we've achieved with CCS, but it's only 40 megatons per annum that are captured and stored. These are numbers way beyond our capability and capacity today. I now want to move on to hydrogen because hydrogen holds the key to a large number of industries being able to decarbonize by moving away from traditional fossil fuels and into a fuel whose byproduct when combusted is simply water. And this is especially so in applications of very, very high heat needs where electrification actually is highly unlikely and indeed probably impossible to be the solution. Today in hydrogen production, all I really want to point to is that it is an orange sliver here that represents the total amount of hydrogen produced from electrolysis. And that electrolysis does not necessarily come from electricity with a zero emission footprint. So we are today producing hydrogen largely from carbon intensive fuels through very mature processes and very low cost and we have very little contribution from electrolysis. Now I'm indebted to the former chief scientist of Australia who undertook at the request of the government a particularly valuable investigation and created a national hydrogen strategy for Australia. And I'm sorry about the quality of this graphic but it's the best that we can get. 2015, the total production and demand for hydrogen in the world was eight exajoules. So exajoules is a lot of energy but it's all relative, so eight. By 2020 that had grown to 10 and we'd added in there some industrial energy uses. The forecast total hydrogen demand by the time we get to 2050 is 78 exajoules a year. I just wanna pause on that for a moment because the scale ups obviously 10 times what it was in 2015. It is dramatic and the new applications are extensive but the question becomes how do we go from actually a very small market to a very large market in a short space of time against the backdrop of all the other things we need to do in energy and climate. And one of the important things to just reflect on here is that if we were to use zero emission electricity and electrolyzers alone to deliver 78 exajoules of hydrogen per annum globally, then based on work that the IA has done that would require more than 26,000 terawatt hours a year of electricity from zero emission sources. And that is actually equal to the total electricity generated in the whole world from all sources in 2018. And we know that the electricity systems around the world by and large have an extraordinary way to go for themselves to be decarbonized. It is very difficult to see a pathway to 78 exajoules of hydrogen in the timeframe available 30 years where the only technology to be used is electrolyzers running off zero emission electricity. It is, as I say, not to be negative about renewables far from it, we need masses of them but there are going to be natural limits about how fast you can build and there are then a series of very important questions to ask about where the best value is derived. Is it from devoting renewables onto electrolyzers and dedicating them there? Or is it actually to decarbonizing the broader electricity grids? And so necessarily cost comes into this and this is some work that we've put together based on publicly available analysis and those sources are listed there. And right now and for quite some years to come the lowest cost production of clean hydrogen is either thristine methane reforming with CCS or coal gasification with CCS. And these are generally around $2.50 to $3 per kilo in Australian dollars. So somewhere $2 or south in US dollars where dedicated renewables with electrolysis on average are pushing around $7.50 and curtailed renewables with electrolysis are very expensive largely because the utilization rate of the electrolyzers is very low usually as low as 10% and so it drives up the cost. Cost is not the only consideration in this and there needs to be a much broader appreciation but the point to be made here is that it's always dangerous to go with just one technology when you're trying to solve problems and there are going to be roles here for both dedicated renewables with electrolysis as well as the mature and large scale technologies of steam, methane reforming and coal gasification with CCS both of which we have experience with both of which are already in production in the world. So this is a very quick run through but it is sufficient to conclude by saying we think the case is there for CCS being vital to net zero. No matter which of the analyses we look at by academics, think tanks, universities and some of the important multilateral organizations that actually have no vested interests in individual technologies CCS consistently comes up as being necessary but we've got to increase our capacity by more than 100 fold by 2050 and I'm sure you will hear that from a range of other technologies as well. We need to go from the 66 we're talking about to more than 2000 large scale facilities in the course of the next 30 years and to do that much stronger policy is going to be required than what we can witness today to incentivize that rapid CCS investment. There are some policy priorities and I don't have enough time today to go into depth about these but they include creating the conditions that are ripe for investment and the United States actually is leading the way globally on that. It is very clear the direct relationship between the tradable tax credit known as 45Q and importantly the California low carbon fuel standard where the permits that are tradable there for CO2 are averaging somewhere north of $200 a ton and create the perfect environment for a CCS project. We've got to facilitate this development of CO2 pipeline and storage infrastructure. It's the key to actually enabling those with emissions to capture them and to dispose of them and in a number of jurisdictions there remain key legal and regulatory issues particularly around long-term liability for stored CO2 as well as some other domain and pipeline rights issues. So we have work to do. And with that I'd like to end. I hope I've not taken too much time and look forward to answering as many questions as I can. So John, I think it's time for me to stop sharing and pass back. Okay, sir. Thanks for that exciting and comprehensive update on the state of CCS commercialization. I have to admit I was kind of rather maybe it's a lag response, thinking of the downward part in your graphic there from 2011 to 2021. So good news for today. The world needs more good news like that. I was pleased to see the upswing that you're now betting that this trend will continue. So we did get quite a few questions. We have about 10, 12 minutes or so for them. There's a lot of basic questions on what qualifies as CCS? Is it a certain percentage removal or other metric? And then related to that, perhaps a lot of cost and efficiency comparisons with other technologies. You already, since those questions were asked on the hydrogen chart, which was a good start on that. But maybe one other specific thing you could address is with the new kind of enthusiasm about direct air capture, how would you compare CCS cost and efficiency with direct air capture cost and efficiency? Great. Thanks, John. And it's always difficult to know where to begin and end in these sorts of presentations. So let me touch firstly on the question about percentages of capture and the like. The way that we go about cataloging these things is to take what the specification is for the plant. Now, it depends on the application. So if we were looking at gas processing, for example, you will find that the carbon dioxide that's captured out of a column that any of the oil and gas producers are dealing with will be very close to 100% because the product specification at the other end requires CO2 content in the final CH4 at exceptionally low levels. So you'll get very close to 100%. For other applications, it almost always boils down to how much do you want to pay to capture it. It's theoretically possible in most applications to get to 100%, but like so many of these engineering and physics questions, those last few percent actually cost significantly more than the first few percent. So as a general rule, if you look at the operating coal-fired power plant in Canada at boundary dam, I think its capture rate is pushing up around 90% of its emissions. It's not capturing all of them. In theory, it could, but to be honest, the cost of that last 10% is very high. In gas, we're saying that it's pretty much all captured. What we count is the volume captured and permanently removed from the atmosphere. What the actual facility that that equipment is attached to has as its overall CO2 residual footprint is a different matter of one that can range from zero through to a significant number. We're relying on individual policy regulation and business policies of the company to work out what to do with the remainder of the emissions. But of course, that pathway to net zero means they're gonna have to deal with that and they need to find ways to do so. If we go over to the cost question, cost first up, you have to say is very site and application specific. And I'd invite people to visit our website because there's lots of reports there that you can pick up that do talk about what the various costs are. And unfortunately today, I've not brought along the key graphic on that. But they range so on capture. If we just talk about capturing CO2, they range from incredibly low. So in the natural gas processing sector, for example, in methanol production, for example, the cost to capture is so low because firstly, the CO2 stream that's coming out of those processes is near pure. And so there's very little that has to be done to actually clean it up and manage it into storage. In the case of the gas processing industry, of course, they have to strip it out. So it's not like they have to add equipment to actually extract the CO2. It's already part of the process. That can be well under $5 US a ton in many instances to get that done. If we go to the other extreme, you can see in early stage cement capture costs are still pushing up above $100 per ton to capture. Interestingly though, it's not that many years ago that we would have said that was the sort of number for capture on a coal-fired power plant. We've actually got a report where we show that that's changed dramatically. And in fact, between Boundary Dam, the first CCS-equipped coal-fired power plant in Canada that was around $100 to $110 a ton. The next one, Petronova was down to about 75. We've now seen studies. They're not under construction, but we've seen studies that are pushing down towards 50. And there's a very exciting technology in the United States known as net power with the alum cycle, which depending on the various applications that come with it, its capture costs are said to be below $20 a ton for coal or gas-fired power. So technology keeps moving in this space as well. Transport and storage, oddly enough, is a relatively low cost on a per ton basis. And for the best storage opportunities, you can see storage being sub $10 a ton. And that's $10 for the ton, paid once, and it's stored in perpetuity. And the transportation then is, however, by pipeline, very much dependent on distance, on pressures, how much compression you need, et cetera. And it can range from maybe $30 or $40 a ton down to $1 or $2 a ton where you've got very short pipes. So that's the quick thing. Just on direct air capture, direct air capture is actually a subset of carbon capture and storage. It's just a different way of capturing CO2. You then have to do something with it. And the use opportunities are minuscule, important but minuscule against the size of the anthropogenic problem that we've got. And you inevitably wind up at a place where you've got to geologically store it again. However, this technology is moving fast. And so if I went back two or three years ago, you would have heard that it was $600 a ton to capture. We're hearing pretty consistently now that that's fallen to somewhere between $2 and $400 a ton. And there are plenty of the technology providers there who are making advances all the time that foresee sub $100 a ton. Prices are entirely possible in the next decade. And let's remember that a carbon price to achieve two or 1.5 and net zero emissions is definitely gonna be around $100 a ton. Whether it's explicit or implicit, it's gonna start there, it could well be higher than that. John, I think that's about the best I can do in the time I have. Well, thank you so much. I asked three questions and you just answered six questions. So moving right along, thank you for that. Again, lots of updates. I'm gonna have to be glued to your website for a while. They get caught up on all this late breaking information, which is very good. Speaking of, this may be unfair to ask somebody at Australia, but as you may have heard, President Biden will announce later on this week a something three to $4 trillion infrastructure program. So if you were asked to give him advice on whether or not to invest in CCS infrastructure and if you answer that positively, what you would suggest to invest in, what would you say? Maybe this is a retirement job for you. Oh, yes, I should have said my formal statement says, I'm stepping back from full-time work. My wife could not cope with me moping around and I don't intend to. So the first part of the question, of course, is simple because of what I do and what I believe in the answer is, of course he should, in what and how. Well, I think that where the investment needs to turn up and you can do it in many different ways, but the value is what matters. We need to be making sure that we are building the infrastructure that makes sure that we can shift the massive volumes of CO2 at very low cost from points of emission to points of storage or indeed in a number of cases, points of use. And so when you look at the 45Q construct, it's actually focused on the capture end. It's a tradable tax credit, but it's focused on actually delivering captured CO2. What we've got to do is make sure that there are then the pathways and the transportation and essentially the waste services, if you want to think about it that way, that can take that captured CO2 and deal with it and deal with it in huge, huge volumes, not just for abatement, but also so that we can get more active in carbon dioxide removal, which is just inevitable in my view. And of course, when you see the size of that problem, you realize that nature-based solutions are very, very important here, but they too are limited in how much they can contribute to pulling CO2 from the oceans and the atmosphere as well. So my advice to the president for what it would be worth, because I think you'll be advised by much smarter people than me, is I'd be looking at the infrastructure to facilitate still more capture based on these other very good policies that are already in place in the United States. Super, one last question. This seminar attracts a lot of chemical engineering, geosciences, professionals, and students. So for those people who want to work on the fossil, some of them may job to renewables, for those of who want to work in the fossil sector, what kind of career advice would you offer to them at the highest level? Where do you think the other than your job, which of course is the optimal job for that, what professions and institutions and additional settings would you advise them to get into? If they wanted to make the big difference to make all those steep curves a reality. Sure, John, I think it's a great question and for a guy that's trained in economics to all of the engineers and subsurface people hats off to you. You've done something harder than I did. What I'd say to you is that I've been enormously impressed over the past three or four years with how quickly the oil and gas industry on mass has moved towards accepting, embracing, and pursuing a decarbonisation agenda. And so particularly if you're involved in subsurface, well to roister into the future, we are going to have to saw trillions of tons of CO2 and there's no shortage, no shortage of pore space to do that in, but there's a huge amount of work to be done to characterise it and prove it up and the like. I actually see there's a lot of opportunity oddly enough for the oil industry, because they are the ones with the expertise to flip around from pulling stuff out of the ground to putting stuff back in the ground and they really understand pressurisation structures, et cetera, that's still got huge opportunity. The chemical engineers, honestly, there's so much chemistry in carbon capture. There's also subsurface chemistry, of course, as well as my geologist colleagues remind me regularly in the office here, but the capture technologies across a wide range of applications just going to keep people busy for an awful lot of decades ahead. So from my perspective, both of those skillsets, both of those qualifications and the pursuit of them should never be seen any more as characterised as simply going out there to get more oil and gas out to be burnt with no pollution and environmental control, particularly around greenhouse gases. It's quite the opposite. It's a great opportunity to be part of an industry that I am convinced is going to transform itself and remain one of the biggest industries in the world, but by reversing itself out of what it's done for about a century now and into a place where it's dealing with the problem. They'll also, of course, and you can see this in a range of the companies and most of them are members of ours, they're moving into the alternative energy space as well and they're moving strongly into hydrogen and electricity and they're taking their skills and their knowledge and their business abilities with them. I think it remains a really attractive industry that's in transition. In closing, I can't help but observe that I've observed what you've observed over the last five to 10 years, the oil and gas industry has dramatically turned towards extremely aggressively pursuing these opportunities. I wonder if that has anything to do with that being the same 10 years during which you've been doing your current job. So with that said, I thank you very much for an outstanding and inspiring seminar and hope you can come visit us here in the Bay Area San Francisco Bay Area as soon as you're able to travel. John, thank you. It's been a great honor to be invited and to do so and the Bay Area is one of my favorite parts of the world. So I really hope to get past this virus and get back there. Excellent, we'll see you then. Thank you.