Hello, hope you have a body to name me online. If somebody give me a thumbs up or let me know, that'd be great. Thank you. Okay. So here we are. Hello everybody, welcome. So I do have notes, so I'm not very good at presenting. So for everybody you know who I am, I'm Amy, and I'm pleased to host you here at the bar tribunal and adjudications service, which is also known as BTAS. So I'm actually part of the ICCA, which is the Inns of Court College of Advocacy. And together with BTAS, we are under the Council of the Inns of Court umbrella. So, BTAS is hosting us today, but this isn't actually where we're based, we're actually based on chance relaying. I am the Head of Online Learning at the Inns of Court. And for those of you who don't know what we do, we launched our bar course in 2020. And the bar course is a postgraduate qualification for those who want to practice as barrisons. So I'm very fortunate that our course portfolio is but at the same time, it's very high pressure and we've got a lot on to deliver our course for our students. So before we get started with the presentations, I just wanted to quickly say just a couple of housekeeping things. So there is no fire alarm should be going off, but if it does, it obviously means we do have to get out of the building. For those of you who were here this morning, I actually, it was the wrong directions to get out of here.  I think our meeting point is number three, but hopefully that won't happen. Toilets and things, hopefully you'll found them just outside the street down the corridor. And this session will be recorded and sent to the A or C later. So it will be on YouTube, but if anybody has any problems with that, please come and see me directly or drop me an email after the session. Here is the schedule for today. And so we are due to finish a little bit earlier. And Julie is going to be doing a presentation as well, because we have to talk a speaker over, but we're due to finish about 430 but we'll see how things go. There is another group. Part of beta is due to need to use this room of five. So I don't imagine it's going to carry on past that, but we'll see how we go. I think if we don't have any questions, I think it's over to you. So are you happy to use my. Yeah, yeah. Your slides, I just copy them. Thank you very much. That's number one. And I hope you had a nice lunch. And my name is Jack and I work at the University of the arts. And today I wanted to talk to you about how we introduced video based pedagogies sort of the journey that we went on from the section to using them using videos as part of mainly to talk about free online master's degrees. Let me start. So the background story to this. So this was where this project started is that after the pandemic and a working group had been established to set up a response to this report. So this is the project, the image pedagogies evaluation report. And part of that report was to create some guidelines for the whole college around prerecorded videos principles and guidance. So in October 21, we produced this report with some commendation based on best practices. And in May 22, this report is used as a base for staff development in online. Okay, so this is how we got to this point. And the report. I want to address three main things when we with regards to videos. One is how to scuffle video in the learning journey. So what's the function of the video in the online lesson. And the second part was how to create engaging videos are just quite a wide category. So we focused on the baseline quality video and if there's a length. That's recommended. And we're not going to talk about this too much today, but we also look at principle around distinct type of videos so difference between a lecture versus a tutorial versus how to or step to step guideline or versus a recording over discussion. And finally, how to set up a video production support so how do we help our lectures produce videos. So the first thing that we looked at is how to scuffle the video into the learning journey and we started from ABC probably very familiar to this. And we started from the assumption that obviously a video is forwards in the acquisition learning type so it's usually a resource which you watch video and learning learning through acquisition is what learners are doing when they are listening to a podcast or you're listening to me now so hopefully you are watching the demo video. There are also other learning types as part of this model. And so this is kind of a apologize quite a short image but this is a typical week in the online master so as we design it and to show you how we planned it, you have at the top this active engagement question for the week. This is designed to send to the students attention on a big question for the week. Then you have the sort of acquisition part you have some readings or customers and or the video to watch. Then you have a practice and discussion section so usually it's a question regarding the preparation resources and the part which we use for and where we house the videos which I'm going to show you or the, the principles that we use it's in this online middle lesson. So this is where we use the pre recorded videos that we produce. And finally in the week there's the seminar. Okay, so this is the every course like this there's a preparation as a pre record to watch and then there's a live seven. So when we created this, we call it live lesson lesson we use principles and strategy so the three principles that we use was to give student control over the lesson so how they move around the videos. We wanted to manage cognitive loads so the amount of information they have to do at any given time, and also promote active learning within the lesson. And to do that we use navigation menu to give some control, we try to manage the length and chunks of video to manage the load and to promote active learning with added business activities in the lesson. So this is a screenshot of the middle lesson. So on the left hand side you have where the media is presented so the video. The right hand side is the lesson menu so this is to give student abilities to jump through the lesson that they can go in a sequence or they can skip in various chunks. The only thing I can show you the menu in this a little bit more later is not we can do some work on the visual part of the of the menu. This is an example of an activity so we embed H5P for those of you I'm sure you know what it is. So, in between videos you have activities or other examples of activities are. So if you look at the menu on on its own are trying to sort of single out these are the videos. And these are the activities. So we're trying to interleave video activity with activity in a sequence. Okay, so that's how we create this structure so but going back to that report which I was talking to you about the beginning. How do you try and create videos which are effective and engaging. And you have two main things where we thought we went to the two main two main things the pedagogy so then what is the video used for and what's the actual function of the video. And since we are a creative institution have filmmakers, we engage with the filmmaking department, because obviously when they create videos they use, we realize some of the same principles that are used in the production of film education, making films. So there's quite a lot of over time. And as one academic said, the video needs to make sense and look and sound good. It makes sense and it looks like some good. It's a good video. So, when we looked at the pedagogical aspect first. So, as I mentioned before, we looked at the cognitive load which is again the amount of information that the students presented and the entire process. And the elements that we can use to affect the engagement in the video so he's promoting attention to the video. And the elements that promote active learning so the activities that you instantly in between all those chunks. So, for those of you are not familiar with cognitive load theory, what we try to basically work with is this this part working memory so you have a visual channel which is what you see and also a channel. And you can overload those with too much information. For example, when you have slides like this one probably there's a lot of, you know, text, a lot of boxes and it's hard for you to make sense of all this information. So, there are things that you can do to sort of help the students guide, sort of guide the attention of the students one of these things is signaling so I'm now trying to get your attention to go there by using visual cues. So the signal that it's queuing also is the user on screen text or symbols to highlight important information so by doing this if I can go back by doing this, hopefully, your eyes will go there automatically. The second strategy you can use to reduce cognitive load is segmenting or chunking so rather than have big 15 30 minutes 45 minutes videos or an hour or two hours videos, you can chunk them into manageable loads. Okay, like this is the definition of chunking, which again, it's something that you know we see all the time in other things for example if I show you this number and ask you to remember it or memorize it, it's quite, probably quite complex, but if I show you the same number, this is probably easier and you probably recognize it as a phone number, maybe O2O gave it away, but you know, we chunk information in manageable bits. And the last one is weeding, which is the elimination of interesting but external information that is information that does not contribute to the learning goal. I don't know if you've seen videos with lots of nice music background, lots of animation that actually distracts from what it is that you're trying to do, which is a lesson. So, for example, this is very interesting information, very beautiful, but as you can see, it's actually distracts you from the text and the slide, so then looking at the elements that affects engagement. We looked at the study, which seems to be the factor of the most science and study I've seen on video lengths. This is based on edX data, so I think it's about 7 million viewing sessions. And it seems that, you know, the length, the optimal length is between six and nine minutes. Anything above six minutes, you get control over engagement, which is quite steep. And if you can, you know, keeping the video length to within the six to nine minutes will give you, will announce the chance that the students will actually go through with the whole section. What you can do is use a conversational style, so when you speak, try and be, you know, not use languages too complex or it's quite inaccessible, so try and be conversational.  And this is not always possible, because sometimes it has to reuse videos for multiple lessons, but if the students feel that this video has been made for this student in this class specifically, they will connect more with the lesson. And the dynamic was to promote active learning. So, as you remember before I showed you the menu with the videos and activities. And what you can do is use guiding questions. So before use watching the video, you can ask the students to look for particular things or try and reflect on something so that guys their attention. You can use interrupts, features that gives you the control. Again, we have the menu. We have some activities there. You can integrate questions into the video so you can break the video with activities rather in video. So if some of you will use from October, I'm sure other platforms are available, you can add questions in the video to add some checkpoints. And you can make the video part of a larger assignment or homework assignment or make the video part of the discussion that will be held in the seminar in the week. So again, you're linking the video with elements of that week. Now, that was the pedagogy part. Let's look at the filmmaking, so how to make these videos. And when looking to our filmmakers at UAL, audio is more important than good video. That was they say. So if you can choose between one, go for audio rather than video. It's better to have something that looks slightly worse but sounds good than the opposite because, again, triangle. I think I realize this by using YouTube a lot. If you see a video that's where the audio is poor, I'm more likely to just not go through it. If the audio is good and the visual is not that bad, I can see if you can understand. Again, test it for yourself. So the importance of lighting. And again, you don't have, you need to have a good past and read, but we have those of, for example, we're lectures where doing themselves like this. So with the windows behind them. So the face is completely dark or with weird reflections so help them understand it. It's a basic set up like is a neutral background. Use a face, a light directly on the face. And again, keep it short. 69 minutes. Show your face. That is something that we had, you know, various comments in that with some people like to show their face some people don't like to show their face. What we tend to advise people sometimes is to, if they can edit the moments where they should have faced rather than the slides, because we tend to have faces slide next to each other. But if you don't advance that you don't need to show the slide again for quality blow, you can say, from this minute to this minute, I want just to my face to be visible. So the attention of the student is on what you say and not slide. So, so through filmmaking through anything you can visit directly attention to you. Now, I've got some data from the MA SFM online so strategic marketing online to this year. So it was just finished a year and I collected what happened so there isn't there's no analysis here and showing you what we've been creating in the first year. The average length of the video 16 minutes so we're a bit off the sort of recommended 69. Again, we're not that far off so we think it's as a first try it's done pretty well. In a week, you get an average one hour of video, which is meant to represent a an hour and a half to two hours lecture. So again, even here we think you're doing relatively well considering that at the beginning we had instances of a two hour lecture turning into a two hour video. So, and again, these are averages that we're still examples of one hour 45 on average. And so we produced a number of 340 videos for an online that's six units, 12 weeks per unit. That's the number of activities created. And on average, each lesson is divided into four chunks. So we have an average of two activities per lesson. So again, it looks like the numbers are pretty positive so you have four chunks of video and two activities interleaves. In terms of video production support. Again, we identified two types of support again. One is the second support which we can give through technology support. And which is how to use the tools so that one of the barriers to be able to use cameras the microphones the lighting break and and how to the file management and distribution so a lot of the times, you know, lectures will record at home with an auto and then put the file in their own folder where we can't access it so all these things need to be explained. And this is the part where we work more is the sort of creative pedagogical support which is how it's actually planned. So how to prepare a video concept, how to map the digital learning outcomes, the image composition, the camera positioning, the ease of images with talking head, the anti techniques, the tone of voice, which as you can see I put them here is something like image composition and color positioning comes from the filmmaking language. But again, image composition translated to what are you showing at any given time as a pedagogical effect because it basically determines what their attention is directed to. And I think we can skip that. So this is the recap of what we talked about in that report. And I wanted to answer some questions. The other chap has asked a question. So, oh, okay. I'm sharing this. And Nora has asked how did you decide which content to make into video and which to have more static media? I don't understand. So why did you choose some of the videos and seem to be more static? How did you decide between the two? That's usually the lecture. We don't decide, you know, what type of content. But as you mean within the actual videos or on the middle page? Okay. Usually the pre-recorded lecture is a video with some activity and anything else is by static content that I think in the reading or the preparation for the lectures. But also the preparation of the podcast and the videos. So maybe I'll start with that. Yeah, that just came through on the chat. I don't know if anybody knows how to change the display on here, because I think I can only show this or that on this screen. So unless we just carry, unless we just have to carry on as we are, it just means the people online will see this screen instead. Okay. Yes. We just analyzed the data and students are happy with the general structure. And that's that we are reviewing is the amount of preparation work for the pre-recorded lecture. Because again, it's a reflection we just have now. We've noticed that it's an online lesson. It's built on the preconception of the face to face as you prepare something to then watch the video, which is the lecture. And then do a reflection where we can try the next year to basically merge to the same lesson because you're going to need to prepare potentially for a lecture. It's not a lecture anymore. It's an online lesson so you can change the intro video. Exactly, yeah. But as soon as I think that they've enjoyed the activities and the reflection. Just one little bit of a hate-type piece. So there are lots of different types of what's going on, 30, 35, 35. And which types did you use most often? Yeah. And they take a lot of time to develop. And also did they get good engagement? Was it an intellectual gradebook, for example? Were you able to track engagement with interactive hate-typing versus a video course? Yeah. No, we didn't leave it to the gradebook. We checked the responses.  So, you know, we looked at 100% engagement with most of them. I mean, I have a spreadsheet which I can show you later. I've tracked all the activities one by one. And the types. The most used one is multi-trails. Because it's easy to build and self-marking. And some that we have used that are quite interesting is the one I showed you, which is the paragraph. So you basically break the paragraph into different parts and scrambly and ask the students to put them in order. We also use the driving blocks quite heavily. Production, it depends on where you tend to do it for the lecture. So they prepare the activity usually on a slide. And then for which is created for them. I mean, once you know how to do it, it's not that long, but you need to understand the... Thanks, Jack. One of the things we've found in working with academics that are more used to standing in front of a live audience and presenting as they're teaching performance is that they struggle to translate that to performing to a channel as opposed to the audience. Is that something that you've answered or that you've found any ways to do it? Yes, we have. One thing I can say is that it's highly personal. It depends on the different characters. But we also have, which I haven't mentioned here, we have studio to record. So for people that were less confident with by themselves, they're good to studio with the technician. And in a way they were kind of presenting to them. So it was kind of not to annoy them, but to supply people. I think in terms of supporting them, we just want to explain to them that they don't have to do it in one go. They can find more that we can help them manage the delivery of that lecture in smaller bits. And it's okay not to feel uncomfortable at the beginning. We had one lecturer who she gave one her own performance was very different from what everyone else thought. She thought it was a great lesson and she thought it was a bit too robotic. And actually it's very to the point to look professional, but her point of view, it wasn't a good delivery. So it's interesting to see how your perception of what you think is good can vary from more other things. But I think the answer to your question is to give them possibly the chance of recording a studio or to go to Google the initial recording with learning technologies or conditional learning designer. And I'll go on to it. We'll be late to that. How long did you allow to create all this? Because I know sometimes the activity protectionists are going to take a long time to create one short video. Did you have enough time to do this? For how long do you mean? How many months? What was your time frame as well? It was quite a quick turnaround. We asked them to give us the videos at least three weeks before they weren't meant to be going on. So we had time to edit that. It was quite short. And I think preparation time ahead for this was three hours for 90 minutes learning lesson. I think the biggest problem we had was to try and convince them that a 90 minutes lesson doesn't necessarily have to be 90 minutes video. I think we still owe a good value in them talking and then basically the only currency that equates to a lesson or teaching as opposed to planning an online lesson which might be to a familiar video then you write an activity which is a written document and then you do another three minutes video and then you write something else. When the student does go through they eventually end up using an hour and a half but there isn't an hour and a half of you talking to them. That's the bit of the herald. It's to be with the staff who are presented with a timetable to bend to the physical space. They'll often need to fill what they talk about to expand the space whereas with video it's obviously going around. You might be in the same set of slides but you fill it until a bit 90 minutes and then you contract it a bit 9 minutes. I think you have one of the things that we get is that I want to be able to be more conversational and just be more natural. I understand why you want to do that but if there are minutes to a video then you might not translate it in a good video because if you're learning that being conversational it'll be doing quite a bit of a sign of being short into the points because the students will appreciate that. That's for yourself. When you go on YouTube and you see a 20 minute video what's the feeling that you have seeing that number when you see a 4 minute video? I mean personally I'm not going to be the big investment of energy. When you see 25 you have to sit down and be ready and be attentive at that time. But again, if you're comfortable doing long form then you can do that as well. We do, we are running over just quite a bit so we do have to start wrapping it up. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Sorry? Was it not a film? I thought it was me next to you. Maybe I've got my slides mixed up. If anybody is techie and can fix this because obviously we're seeing this but the people online are seeing presenter mode. So if anybody knows of a way to actually do it so it doesn't show it then I would appreciate somebody taking a look but if not we'll just have to carry on as we are. I think PowerPoint there's a bit that says don't use presenter in slideshow, go to slideshow. At the top bar, sorry, at the bar at the top there's a slideshow. Yep. And then there's something about on the right bit says use presenter view there. Okay, let's try that then. Oh okay, yeah, so I mixed up the slides so it's up to, would Adele like to go, are you ready to go next? Yeah, let's see if then this works, hopefully. Ah, hooray, okay. There we go. Hi everyone, I'm Adele Cushing and I work at Birkbeck University of London. I've been in post since February 2020 in the digital education team. So we've spent quite a lot of the last few years building up a teaching model, blended learning teaching model, with, you know, a template design and Moodle, a three pop model and a mix of remote and in person learning, which over the last year or so has gradually developed into a more official kind of hybrid type model of learning which has been really driven by our academics in terms of supporting the needs of our students who are mostly working Londoners, needing flexibility. Well, working Londoners and anyone else really is working on the flexibility of learning at different stages of life. And thinking about how we can facilitate kind of post pandemic, the change in commuter patterns, the change in the number of people who are in London during the day, whether they might come to our campus to study in the evening or whether they might be at home or on holiday and how they can still engage with our learning. So as I say that this project has come about thanks also to the Office for Students and a bit that was put in as I say kind of driven on the whole hybrid, high flex way of teaching by our academics. And so as I say we've got that we've had this evolving teaching model, the whole project is called Creative Inclusive Learning, the Office for Students has the full details on their website. High flex is one of the elements of the project. We've also got virtual reality immersive learning sub project within the funding. And so we're currently do some doing some research on VR and I'm looking at immersive learning space as well on campus. And we have a project board and we have operations project team so I'm on the project team which represents different areas of college. And then within the Djed team I'm also leading operations team in terms of what decisions that are made at a high level, how that then works putting things in place, getting the messages out and supporting our lecturers. So we started our project I want to say a particular thanks to colleagues from City University, King's University and Quenich University, because we did do a number of visits before we even got started just looking at really good audio and sound. And as Jim, Jim, I said, you know, thinking about audio being King even over the visual and it's similar in in high flex as well. We've got, we've been able to create a sort of a test bed prototype room which we're now in consultation with academics over in terms of the consistency of the audio and video, the location of the video in the room. The number of screens how we facilitate the gallery of students styling in, and that's going to be facilitated in teams and screen sharing resources and digital whiteboards etc via teams. So we, we've now got a sort of testing area and say we started our consultation. We, we are getting some good input from academics in terms of different subject areas, and the kind of room set up that they might be looking for a day into different and their different subjects. And we've also started our kind of development program where we're thinking of, you know, think about high flex pedagogy, how to design or adapt your module in terms of high flex methodologies. And then before we start our official pilot at the beginning of the next academic year will do a sort of practice in terms of the on campus tools within the classroom. So yeah, we do have an official pilot, and we are encouraging our lecturers that you know if they've got well designed mood and modules which they should have now had three years to do that. And if they've taught in different classrooms across the estate which will suck in different ways. So if they've got those skills, they should be able to adapt to high flex as well as working with any of the synchronous activities. So thinking about the equitability of high flex, the fact that online students can and should expect same level of teaching and learning experience remotely as they get in the classroom. So where which tools can be used for moodle synchronously, whatever kind of website tools can can also be be used like Miro, Mentimeter, etc. And these are our aims in terms of, you know, originally, why we thought we'd work on this project or we're looking at achieving. So yeah, so I've kind of set out, this is our communication to our colleagues in terms of how they can help themselves. As I say, we've got 40 people on the pilot next year in the main we're working towards 24 25 where we're working on having the bulk of our estate having a high flex hybrid classroom design. So that it's a bit of a long game, but this is just a five minute lightning presentation about what we've done so far. That's it. Do you have any pictures of what the classroom looks like. No, and one of the reasons is because every time I go in there and my recruits changing. But essentially it's two screens here one screen that shows from from the lecturers point of view there's two screens side by side. And there's another screen at the back which I'm hoping would be on wheels. So you can have that the gallery view of the students starting so then you can either see at the back or move it to the side if you if you want to. We've, we've set the room out in kind of group work mode, rather than rows so that because one of the things I was thinking about with, with high hybrid teaching is do you need to find them back at the room but in terms of the equipment, you kind of have to. And also, one of the reasons it's changing so much is because of the value of the funding and the money now compared to, you know, ordering kit, the lead in times, how much that kit is going to end up costing. And things to consider so we have to really be a little bit agile, I think in terms of our, what we actually decide on but we, we haven't nailed down our specification, yet, hope to do that at the end of this month. And our intention is at some point to return favor particularly for those colleagues that I've mentioned, in terms of inviting people to come and have a look so we'll let you know we've got something more different to show you at the moment it's a little bit crazy every time I go in there. Yeah. A question from an aura online and appreciate the full date is not available yet but how does staff feel about this overall do you think the kind of ambience response at the moment. Yeah, there's that it was fairly straightforward in terms of getting volunteers for the pilot. And as I said is an element of colleagues having driven this by virtue of the fact that a lot of people were delivering in a hybrid way last year. And we didn't really have to set up all the people to be able to support them, but they're doing anyway, certainly one of our art academics mentioned to me the other day that her student, one of our students came in and one of her students was on holiday. And so can you dial me into the lecture and the bed she dog has her fellow student in on FaceTime. So again, it's one of those things that which I found in my career in terms of, if you don't provide it students will find a way of doing things anyway. So obviously it's something that we we feel is going to be very suited to our demographic of students. How do you manage the bookings is it sorry. Yeah, you touched on it there. Did that upgrade the technology rooms so kind of the pandemic hybrid teaching and what house, what maybe what you what you learned from that. We haven't really upgraded on the technology in our state for a while we, we had a new building open a couple of years ago on Euston Road. And we had some new rooms open last year in the waste be the University of London Union, and they were quite quickly put together and they facilitate hybrid but they're not designed for hybrid. So basically what we learned from that was going to take a bit longer, and we need to try and decide design for this way of teaching, as opposed to just putting up some equipment and hoping it will work in the right way. We did quite a lot of upgrading we have to be near the end of the new building projects. So you had to show you around. Oh right that'd be great. Yeah, thank you so much. Sorry. How do you manage the bookings is it is it interesting participants by subject matter, who gets to use a high flat space. Well, it will be the room bookings allocating the teaching and the people in the pilot. We've had to manage expectations in terms of the fact that these new rooms won't be ready till the year after so they're still going to be working with what we call a high flat alpha in our existing estate but with some of the planning and the design. In terms of our regards to the modules and feeding back to us. In terms of the test bed area room. We've got we use so much soft bookings. We've had quite a lot of enthusiasts through the door quite in a very short space of time. Again, we in terms of the pilot catching everybody. We've got digital education partners related to the different schools so anyone who's missing can get picked up by those people in terms of stuff development. What do you use from like a PC side is it like bring your own device and standard inputs or is it. It's been one of our main questions do you want to use your own laptop which actually we had facilitated that in our rooms last year. It created quite a lot of training support needs over and above the what we'd experienced when we had fixed PC in the room. So it's one been one of our most deliberate discussions in terms of you know what do people prefer and there's an element over the we'd like both we'd like to be able to map you know and obviously in terms of managing everything through teams. A lot of people have their own laptops making up the teams of their apps because we're obviously going to plan on the whiteboard app the Penocto app integrated with teams. So people want to manage it by their but also in terms of going into a room and being able to press a couple of buttons to have all the screens on in the right way in the computer. And that's like the most kind of efficient way not having to rely on people training and support all the time. So I think we've come to the conclusion we need to mix up both of this possible where it's possible. Is there any consideration from a scheduling perspective in terms of allowing additional time. So I insurance the gap between sessions for the lectures to set up. I know that's what we've found is that it can lead to time with people having to get set up on lectern PCs. That's a very good point. It's not something that we've encountered necessarily in any of our teaching rooms. I appreciate you sharing that information. Yeah, I was just going to ask on a similar note what did you learn when you went to other places. I think it helped me as a sort of pedagogen staff developer to get a picture of how to see things and how efficient they wanted them to be switched on. And for my colleagues in ITS who are the budget holders and who are looking at specification of the equipment. They were able to ask colleagues and the other investors that we visited to know what's the main model of the example. The microphones that we've got, the Sennheiser and about the same size as these. And there's only two of them in a room that's larger than this and it picks up from all around and just can speak normally. And that's something that's been very popular from people who've had this thing. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm going to resume the share. There we go. Let's take over. Hi everybody, I'm Jason Norton from University College of London. I'm my presenter, Sue Harrison from the Things College. So we're here to talk about the transition of digital education teams to agile. First of all, what is agile? Agile is a project methodology approach that involves breaking their project into multiple phases. And it emphasises continuous collaboration and improvement. And the teams involved follow a cycle of planning, executing, revising, reviewing and evaluating. I'll try to give four key points here so that agile emphasises flexibility, customer collaboration. Methodologies promote adaptive planning, short development cycles, so quick turnover of iterations known as sprints. So, for example, we run two-weekly sprints. At its core, agile is guided by the agile manifesto and four key principles. And the flexibility and its nature of agile makes it actually particularly suitable for the technology environment where things change rapidly and we need to adapt. These are the four... What's my heading? Four sort of, not principles, the values of agile. It says pillars behind you. Pillars, values. So individuals and interactions over processing tools, customer collaboration over contract negotiation, responding to change over following a plan and working software over comprehensive documentation. Now, a lot of you probably know that agile has origins. Its origins are in software development practice. But also, going back even further, its origins actually go into manufacturing before that and went back to Toyota's DPS. So how about that? Make it a bit more focused on that area. So individual interactions. So we value expertise and collaboration. Our team members and rigid processes and tools. So open communication, active listening and effective teamwork to create innovative technology solutions, which is what pretty much all of my learning technologies have done all the time anyway. Customer collaboration. Well, we believe in actively collaborating with our customers, our staffs, our students through the development process, engaging with them and helping them to make decisions for us to be guided by those decisions. Responding to change over following a plan. Now, we embrace change as an opportunity to improve and enhance our learning technologies all the time. This is the things that come up all the time throughout what we do.  New things happen all the time. We adapt and change those. And working software and comprehensive documentation. We prioritize the development and delivery of working educational solutions. So working educational solutions are the comprehensive documentation. It doesn't mean that documentation is important. Well, actually what we deliver is more important than my writing copious amounts of documentation and background. So the story for UCL. We have a new chief technology officer in 2020 at the same time as obviously something else hitting 2020, which had a big impact on us. Andy, our CTO basically watched us for that year, that first year. And they said, we're going to have time. I think it's the way to move forward. We're going to be one of the first in the entire sector to do it. So at the very start of 2021, we moved to safe agile and that was the whole of our information services department. I work in digital education. I used to be the digital education services manager. My remit, I had basically six learning technologists, four junior learning technologists and technical teams working for me. And we converted all of those to agile. So first of all, obviously training and a high level restructure thing for shuffle. We got changed around what I became a product owner. And we had service owners who sort of dropped away in the background and became technical experts. And we have service operations manager who became technical leads. And we were formed into these product teams. So my product started off as virtual learning environments and it's already changed. And we also established a center of actually surrounding agile within information service division to basically provide guidance about agile. We received training and then basically on your way. That's it. Go for it. You've got a new product. And this is basically what we're told to do. We're told to go away, try, fail and learn and repeat it constantly. And all within we have something called safe, which stands for scale to agile framework. It's one of the frameworks for agile. There are numerous ones. And this is basically one that seems good for enterprise development organization. And what we did. This is meant to look like a mess because that's actually what it was. It was a really challenging. Two years now and we're still doing it. The whole point about agile is you are constantly almost recreating yourself. My product team alone has gone through basically three or four mini restructures. Changes as we've learned to find out what does work or doesn't work. What actually makes us work harder or work slower.  So in agile, we've now run four term increments a year, big planning sessions where all of ISD come together and plan what we're going to be doing for the next 12 weeks. We have rather sort of this next 12 weeks is what we're doing. And any other member from any other team becoming sitting on our teams go, Oh, what are you doing? Oh, that actually connects with something we're doing every student. Oh, have you considered these things? Do you want to build them? Do you want to get a lot more interactions now with our teams? Now, I'm moving quick because I know we're a bit short on time. Two things that didn't work. One, when we had my team and we moved into a product, we were still doing within the product. We had first and second line support. So sort of standard, many staff academic support, teaching and learning activities and training sessions, standard things that are based on learning technologies. I call them technologies that bread and butter work. Suddenly, they found themselves in this new environment, this new product team that had a quite a heavy bench was technical because we've taken a technical team. The guys at the back end normally sit in a dark room somewhere and don't really talk to anybody and put the front of the centre. And now everybody's engaging and what it did, it actually caused job dissatisfaction for our learning technologies. Some of them, they suddenly found that it's not what they want to do. It's not what they envisage as being a learning technologist role. Some of the learning technologists, actually, this is different. This is something I can see me actually adapt to and changing. So what we actually did is we've now got different types of learning technologists. This was an evolution for learning technologists. So basically, we have products learning technologists and the learning technologists are specific to the product they're in. So within my digital learning environment product, I've learned technologies who are really confused about what to be learning out of Moodle. They might want to look at a little bit of coding, a little bit of data analytics, but they still want to be engaging with academics because that's what they are. They still learn technologies. They've got that knowledge of our institution, of our pedagogy and they can interact at a different level. But we've also got the support team, which is running as a separate little product now, not in the same way, but they've got the learning technologists, which are more, as normal learning technologists might be to still deliver in training and still engage with academics. We've created feedback cycles at different levels that feed into the relevant activities of the team. So that's enabled us to actually move faster and develop and deliver value a lot faster. Moving on to the next point. Running in sprints does not work for sport teams. It doesn't work for all teams. So running in sprints, as I said, we have a planning cycle where we do 12 weeks, don't do 12 weeks. That 12 weeks is then split down into two-week sprints. So every two weeks, you sit down and have a planning session, you go, what's, what are we doing this week? Plan, work those two weeks. Plan, work those two weeks. That doesn't work when you just got support tickets coming in. But those day-to-day operational things, they say, oh, here's something that needs to be fixed. Here's something that needs to be fixed. It doesn't work standard support. So the way we come around this, they still work within agile principles and agile values because that doesn't go away. Those principles that we spoke about at the start, they still underpin everything. We're just set to a slightly different methodology. We use can-bag, which is basically a pull approach. So they have a backdrop of tickets. They get by taking that one. And that's basically how a continuous flow. And we have teams who are doing this sort of work have something called an ADM, an agile delivery manager. And we have agile delivery managers in our other product teams that are running sprints. And they talk to each other. Crazy concept. But they talk to each other and say, we've got a deployment support team coming up in four weeks time. Can you put that on your boards just to let you know? Because we're pre-planning. So the support team is actually now more informed about what's going on. That was one of our biggest challenges, communication. What's good? Change is now a constant factor in what we do. We are constantly thinking about how we can improve. Teams are empowered to make things happen. That whole going back to that, we can fail. We can actually go, what, let's try something. Oh, it doesn't work. Doesn't matter. Let's try something new. And the teams are empowered to make decisions to themselves. They are autonomous. Teams are more responsive and have agility. The alternative to turning on the head of a pin, we have actually so much agility that we were able to stop mid-process of deployment. And they should go, oh, we're going in this section now. That's not good work without impacting any of our deliverables. If something doesn't bring value to our end users, we challenge it and go, why are we even doing it? If it doesn't bring value, why do it at all? Because we've got the buying of our CTO, we can sort of escalate these problems right up to the top of the organization now. And we have done. And it's been really, actually, one of the biggest things that I've noticed is that change doesn't just have to happen because some might think they've got a good idea about a particular product or assessment tool. More engagement stakeholders, we work a lot more now with our end users, especially both backend guys are talking about, our mood of devs and things. And actually, every end of spring, we have a demo. We have stakeholders coming in, the people who are actually wanting that functionality, sitting in a room looking at how far dev teams have got. And actually, that's not exactly what happened. Should you manage it? Do that. This leads to faster delivery of value to our end users. Things that don't always have to work. The new ways of working, especially with other parts of the organization. Only ISD has gone agile. And actually convincing and making other people in the organization understand what that means has been quite a challenge. So people outside of the product team still think of what we call waterfall or big design upfront. That's the idea where you sat in a room, made a 200 page document about what you're going to deliver. And then, you know, when you get to the end of that, whatever it is, it's not actually what you deliver. It's completely changed and probably worthless. And it's also, it's not easy to move on from all practice, you know, with the UTO is an ordinary organization. Yeah, very formal organization. And a lot of old guard who are very used to doing things in particular ways. So some of those challenges have been a sort of a people problem. So two things to take away from me. Agile is a mindset first and foremost. It's not about, as we haven't gone, it's not about too much about things like sprints and retros and all those wonderful words. Because it's in here. It's got to be in here for your leadership teams because they got to drive the agile through the organization. And this one is key to my team is the ability to fail and fail fast. And what that means is fail safe means psychological safety and fail fast means local safety. So psychological safety, this means that people in a team can fail. There's no blame. They can actually go over or try something and feel perfectly great. And they will receive commentary and actually go, oh, John, that didn't actually work that well. That's probably because you didn't do this piece of code or we didn't speak to that person. And there was no comeback on that because it's psychological safety. That's one of the things you have to promote. And the other thing is fail fast. Now, fail fast is one of the things to really understand about agile. Because of that agility, it enables you to try things and fail rather than build, build, build, build. Here you go, Mr. Customer. I've come for you. That's exactly not what I wanted. And you spent 200,000 pounds on that. Whereas every two weeks, you go, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. And they go, why don't you know that? Change that. Look at that. Oh, there's a little trick. There's cross-failure. So actually our overall costs have come right down because of this. And at the end of the cycle, we're actually delivering value and what I and you just want. And I think that's me. Oh, two more slides. This is where we started at just the same change. This is where we start at the very start. We've got the education domain products. Core teaching platforms, digital assessment, education design, media, teaching spaces, digital resource, digital free. And this is where we have a now, literally as of now. We're just undergoing another change. So we now got digital learning environments, which is my area, assessment of feedback, curriculum management, mini-virus, and only engagement. And the whole point is that it constantly evolves. Thank you. And I'll pass over. Thank you. So aware of time. I'll just pick out a few kind of key points for colleagues. I think the first thing to say is things is far earlier in our journey than UCL is. We're about two years in. We are six months in. So we have run two of those three monthly planning sessions so far, the second being about two or three weeks ago, which Jason did attend. But it's very interesting to see. I think we've already got quite some similar takeaways, which I think is interesting. So it says white agile at the top, but just to pick out a couple of reasons as to why things has decided to make a move into more of an agile mindset from the IT perspective. The first is around culture. It's identified that we have a large, old institution. We have a lot of silos. And what we actually want to do is kind of empower people and foster a sense of collaboration, kind of decentralize that decision making to allow us to shift away from projects, design everything up front and then deliver into products and services.  Can we show you? Can we show what we've done? Can you help us improve, et cetera? The second being around capacity to bring together more cross-functional teams. So now my team, CTEL, Tender Technology Enhanced Learning has always worked very closely with an educational applications team in King's, but now each of our sub teams that we now have in agile are made up of members of both of those areas. We work together a lot more closely. We have the technical side. We have the pedagogic side that we try and work together more closely. A big one, which I think a lot of people, it will resonate with a lot of people, is around prioritization. This removal of the hippo. I haven't heard of the hippo, but I love it. The highest-paid person's opinion, which we, I think, happened in a lot of places. And the aim of this is that we improve transparency and consistency in prioritization. As I say, we are very early doors with this, but we've already been able to get in some stakeholders, get in some people's opinions, make sure that what we say we're doing is actually the priority of the institution. We've still got a long way to go, but we're starting to get better at that. And then the final one is around governance. The old university adage, when I make a decision when you perform a committee, we're trying to get away from that to allow governance to be minimum viable is the phrase that we've been using so that we can jump through fewer hoops when it comes to the governance perspective. So, these are kind of why things decided on the agile journey. As I say, we're six months in counting. In mid-February, we got asked to jump into this, which was in the midst of our annual mood upgrade. So, I'm not certain I do it the same again. We went from a very horizontal approach to delivering a project to trying to shift that round to being a very vertical approach to delivering in two-week sprints. It's been a learning curve, but it's... I think to start with an existing project, if any of your institutions are going agile, I'm not certain I'd go that way, but we are where we are. So, we ran our first planning event at the end of March. We then ran three months worth of agile, ran a second planning event, and then our big upgrade day is a week today, not that it's imprinted on my mind. So, we are... We've run two of these planning sessions, and our next one will then be in October. We will then plan for our next three months worth of work. And then a lot of these are very similar to what Jason said about kind of benefits and challenges. I will just highlight a couple. One is that we... It's been very useful for us to consider agile as about providing predictability rather than being relentless on what we're doing. It's a two-week sprint, it's a two-week sprint, it's a two-week sprint. This is about us sharing how we can predictably deliver what we've said we've delivered. So, I think that was... Our mindset felt a little bit... We felt a little bit overwhelmed as to all of these meetings, all of these things coming. And when you think about it as actually...  That's been very useful for us. But I think that the final one to mention is just that we are a pilot where IT in UCL went everybody with the first pilot in Kings from an IT perspective. And it's now being disseminated out as to other teams and other areas. So, we're a little bit more step-by-step as we go forward. But that does mean we live in old governance and old ways of horizontal working and new ways of vertical working. So, there's a lot of joining the dots, but it has been a nicely positive experience for us. And then finally, just to mention, Kings will be expanding it out to other areas, which we're interested to see and interested to help with. We will also be expanding it out to other areas within the digital education side. We haven't done physical classrooms, for example, as an area at the moment. And then I think a big thing for us is we have learning technologies working as product owners. That does cost over really well in some places, but we need to learn and mature how product ownership will work for us in Kings as we go forward. But I'll leave it there in a way where we are 10 minutes over. Any questions? Questions online? Questions? Anybody have any questions? What would you keep from the old governance? Do you want anything? No. To be perfectly honest, I can't think of anything that we'd like to keep. There are still bits that run idle and sort of service methodologies, and they actually get in the way of the atoll delivery practice because there are things associated with agile such as DevOps that should be replacing those items. Yeah, I would agree. I think that there's... that old governance has probably built over decades and it can be very complicated and jumping through lots of hoops. It actively tries to remove governance where it's not useful, and that has been very empowering at least for us. So the questions on the chat, the first one is how do you use data to inform your changes, both to practice and to direction, and what kind of data? One of the key things I think about is that it's what you're talking about, is how we know what is going to happen during the spring. We've got a point now where we can size items, a piece of work, and we have a school of work in progress, so we know how much work we can put into the system that we can deliver very accurately. So we know we can actually save our end users. As you said, we can go actually two weeks' time, you can have this in four weeks' time, you can have that, and we can be confident about those, whereas before we didn't have that ability, and it's only by sort of going through the steps and using tools such as JIRA and understanding which we learn about if you do add up, it actually becomes much more predictable about what you can do and what you can deliver. In regards to all the... What kind of data? So what kind of data? I'm not sure. So when we start something, we try to identify what data can help us make informed decisions on that, but there is no set to this data or that data or whatever data. It really depends on the thing you're doing, in any case. It informs an epic in agile terms as to what you're kind of delivering. I don't think it's a specific set of data, but it really depends on what you're delivering. It wasn't in there as a team. We love things called spike stories, which are basically information gathering stories. So once we bring them up, we go, actually we need to find out as much as we can about this piece of technology which we don't know if you're a parent and build up some understanding. The second question is, how much staff involved responded to constant change and iteration? From experience, not everyone has the same appetite for this and yet still have very valuable perspectives to bring to the table. How much have you flexed your agile approach or found ways to still engage these staff? Well, that's quite a tough one. We have lost staff, I'll be honest. We have lost some staff because I don't think they felt that the change was good for them. But at the same time, we've also gained a lot of new staff who have come into this from other institutions quite fresh, but they haven't experienced how UCL was before and have found it really stimulating. Have we adapted? I think it's a part of the process that you do going from data through changes because we're all on, it's a joint discovery. But when you refer back to the unopening principles and values that you're trying to do, it comes down to delivering value to the end users. I don't think anyone is really against that. The way we do things has actually enabled people to become more empowered, to be able to flex, but it's opened up on multiple job pathways. So I think overall it's been good for most people. We're perhaps a little bit earlier on in the journey to have people leave or whatever. We basically ask people to come with us for six months, see how it's working, see how it looks, feedback every time we have a metro every two weeks, we feedback, etc. I think there's been a lot of positives. It is a change for people and some people adapt to that better than others, but it's not been widely negatively received in any way, shape or form. It takes time. We're two years down the road and we are all still learning. I'm much of my third agile delivery manager and one of my legs has a different is exceptional and she's brought things to the team that we hadn't even considered before. It's changed everything, it's changed for our team. When we started, a retrospective is one of the ceremonies that we sit through every two weeks and it's basically how did it go for you? What happened to you? Can we help with anything? I remember our first months of retro was when she splints. No one wanted to say anything about the work. They didn't want to talk about other people's work.  So there's been big changes. When you get something back for retro and then you change it, that adds so much value to people as they go, right? I spoke up and now I've seen a positive change. Well, not that flag-wavy but you know, it's been good. How important are things like gyro to keep everybody aware of what's going on? So we use a different tool. It uses your DevOps.  To be perfectly honest, it is everything. Yeah. And you have to obviously figure out how you can figure it. That's why we had our centre of excellence. So we had experts at the start to bring in a show. And as an upfront training for the key roles, the product owner, the adult delivery manager, scrum master roles, all hatched to have training up front. There's no more questions on the chat. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. For those in the room that have me, I'm Don. Thomas. And we're from City University of Gondola. We're going to talk today about a an engineering programme that was previously run as a fully in-person activity that ran through the same emergency online that everybody else did and then came and then how we helped them to go online and have more purpose for what. And the design service that we got to launch off the back as well. We'll talk a little bit about some of the redesign that we did within that. We'll also talk a little bit about some of the feedback that we got from staff and students and where else. So my role in the institution is a relationship. So I've spent my time sitting and talking with academics and trying to interpret their digital education stuff in a way and help them to understand where we're coming from as well. The programme that they've been looking at which for those of you that missed a bit at the top in the room is called the MSC in Temporary Works and Engineering. So it's something that's really built for construction and engineering professionals, people in careers who spend their time working on construction sites and want to get a professional qualification. Now, typically that's something it's quite difficult if you are a builder to get time off sites to go and do a degree. So this has been one of the challenges in this particular degree for decades. City is one of the few providers in this particular degree but the course has always had struggled to get people in the room to come to this. So they came to me a few years ago and said we'd like to take this online to see if we can give our students a bit more flexibility to see if we can expand this opera as well. I mean obviously people build buildings everywhere in London or Newcastle where people do can we expand their market as well. And in doing that, they wanted to do a few things they hadn't really been able to do on their own in quite the same way. There's a large amount of visiting lecturers, most delivered by visiting lecturers and so that has meant that they were able to get some great expertise in the program but it meant very little consistency of the modules. So the student experience was very erratic, very inconsistent and the student experience was something they wanted to focus on as well. So they came to us and said can you help us to do that? So this is you, right? Thanks, Tom. So my role is a learning design role at City. So it's a relatively new thing for City. It would maybe be from then and I based this in school. It was in a similar role to instructional design but obviously very similar to learning design. So many institutions are now creating more learning design type roles. There are a few people from UCL here in the city, ABC that's really pushing people to think more about pedagogic aspects and maybe between technology, pedagogy and learning activities. So you're all familiar with ABC, the idea of storyboarding workshops. We started those during the pandemic so we had just a horrible power point kind of approach. We say horrible but it's best we could do it if I'm a kind of cruder approach and then we move to Miro. So I'll show you examples I think more from Miro. I'll be your next slide, please go. Thank you, Tom. Yeah, and then there's the usual kind of things around. Sorry, Tom, if you could just go back to everyone. There's usual things around model consistency multiple module leaders 27 visiting maturers because there were so many guest lecturers we asked for interactive videos for each week of the module or if someone was doing two or three weeks there was one just the students got a flavour understanding of what this person's expertise were one is an engineering slash lawyer, one would be a marine expert from North and Hayden so they all have very interesting backgrounds this was a chance to get to know them before synchronous teaching which was one day they released on the first day one module in the morning, one in the afternoon obviously trying to get people to prepare in advance through Moodle to do some initial reading live teaching done in teams recordings on Echo having a project manager won't say too much about this something really helpful so many things to pull together it feels a bit like a luxury to have that but it was super helpful in keeping all this moving it made the difference doing it happening and not happening really it was really helpful yes so I think you know all about Storyboard I'm not going to say too much about this but you understand everything around learning activities constructive alignment things like that so won't say too much about that because we've got quite a few things to get through there's an example of a kind of remixed Storyboard based on ABC but those of you who are very uncertain will notice the need to be a heresy there are only three learning activities and types of people nobody tells them they're allowed to please leave on Twitter there's a reason for that to do with people the experience we had with people would get into semantic discussions around is this production is it practice is it discussion is it collaboration I'm confused not to say that we aren't open to going back to using six types I think the agile talk is very interesting and I think our approach really should be flexible and open to how different people work and see things this is our particular take on it but we would be open to doing it but you'll see also it's important guidance is a specific thing on here that gets indicated on a storyboard and that comes a little bit from a storyboard a couple of years ago it's great that people are sharing this different ideas about how people do this then the usual thing about formative and summative assessment this is an example for the engineering one because the structure was there is synchronous teaching on a Thursday what would you do before what would you do after you've got learning outcomes at the top just the usual details about who's teaching it some attempt to consider the time how long things take so that's less standard structure but on the next one you'll see more standard structure so some of the things behind this came from Sam Branson who was the director of digital learning at Bayes Business School I mean it's not rocket science in a way but I think it's interesting the question of detail you've got a storyboard and our experience has been that people find a structure like this quite helpful in it you have lectures what happens before what happens after then you have something like a lab seminar or a tutorial and again you wouldn't necessarily need to populate every column so you're not always asking people to do something before and after a lecture before and after a lab again there's a degree of flexibility here and you'll see that there is the support and guidance kind of elements so some of that could be around digital capabilities so one way we're looking to iterate this storyboard for example is how can we show or develop digital capabilities for students another institutional initiative would be graduate attributes so again we're being asked what is there a way of indicating that our curriculum is a curriculum management system and our president is very keen on this kind of systematic design thinking which he would like it to be explicit in the design of curriculum to know where graduate attributes are being included so again that's another layer that we will at some point think about adding in at the bottom there timing thing as usual okay thank you Don so the modules because there are different people teaching we don't always have images in them just little photoshop hacks to stick into the opening sections and modules, overview videos the usual kind of technical things around be nice to have the video embedded on the page and can do a few but then we'll release those on middle down a break set and then signposting or weekly plans so being really clear because it's for the online program what's the expectation people should do we did some infographics using tool called Visny which I think is a really interesting tool it's very similar to Vengage or picture chart or if you author in the web browser it's similar to the illustrator but how put HTML completely responsive it's a really good way of summarizing for example assessments, what happens in assessments we know from Manassas and other feedback students are really unclear what type of assessments, what's the weighting they have to power through the module specs program handbooks it's not very student friendly so for online programs we are using Visny we'd like to roll out further about institution politics, let's not go there so here's the things you should be very clear in advance about the schedule and things like that that's me now isn't it so as to be said as I indicated at the beginning there's a fairly small number of students on this program so it's quite important for the school of the engineering department itself to offer this program a relatively small number of students that said there was very very good attendance and engagement attendance for the live sessions some of them were high up in the middle of the building site somewhere we ended up doing things like piloting a hybrid field trip so sending a camera crew up into Durham to a fake aquifer where they were doing some experiments there and feeding the images from the field back out into the the teams meetings where the live sessions were happening we also sort of polled the students fairly regularly as well surveyed them fairly regularly and we found that there were an awful lot of, there was some really good satisfaction so it was kind of as we hoped it would be can we get a consistent experience with basically feels good for them we had clarity around the expectations for assessment this was just such an important thing we so rarely get to go into the detail of that in our roles learning technologies we look at it and you come to it from a critical perspective afterwards and go how does a student know where their assessment is so being able to make sure that they knew exactly where it was was really important obviously there was an authenticity to the assessments anyway but being able to bring that students really appreciated the quality of the learning resources that were able to produce it we'll just have one thing Donna didn't mention it's a world of pain but we went through every lecture presentation and we had the usual thing where people were coming along with 160 slides some cases they were kind of slideshows of site engineering sites and they were very useful but in other cases we had someone in the legal engineering background and there were 160 slides of text so the whole subject matter expert was trying to write with these people and scale that down was slightly tricky but one way we did that was as mentioned already by the Chocomba the whole chunking thing so we went through all the slides and they were not accessible either so we went through eight modules worth of slides so yeah let's not go there it was painful but I think the students did appreciate that and it brought a consistency and clarity to it and we also had sessions for visiting mattresses where we taught through these issues because they were engineers not lecturers by and large to try and get them to think more about activities that might involve calculations or the design of engineering problems and reading out there 160 slides for three hours so some of them we had success other times they did just read the slides but it's an interesting process Having learned a new phrase today it was basically our chance to arrest some hippos So the next thing we do have a case study video of the academics talking about the process now because our time is a little bit limited today I think we've decided that we're going to skip this particular bit and ask Amy if you're happy to send the link action video out to us but basically that's the main story of the Temporary Works program which end-to-end before anybody asks this was two years of our lives as well I'll be honest with that one so what did it lead to Thomas Well I think it's something that we've been talking about over a number of years given the success of ABC growth and learning design interest in learning design to take us beyond this one initial pilot program and offer this as a service so this is what we've got planned we're calling it a digital learning design service And before we explain a little bit about what that is we asked ourselves what do we mean by this for me all these staff and students suddenly got this immersive immersive induction into the world of online blended digital learning through the the fact of the pandemic but it didn't necessarily stick in a lot of places I'm sure we've all gone back to offices and classrooms and lecture theaters and seen some things that we would recognise in 2019 something like that so in my view in the simplest way to put we make education better by design so the design part is a really, really key part and I think that speaks to the design of learning spaces to the design programmes so we've got a definition that we're loosely working with as you see at the top of the slide here we're defining our services and I'll read this out a collaborative flexible process for the design, development and delivery of effective blended hybrid and online learning programmes and modules there's a lot of edtech buzzwords in that one sense but hopefully you unpack all of that there's a lot of ambition in that statement as well and one of the ways that we frame it or open the discussions with staff there's some of the questions that we've also got here so if staff are looking to improve their student engagement if they're looking to think about designing activities to give their students a chance to practice real life practice making their module or their programme more inclusive or all this stuff that I've talked to the government talking about and raging against and but nevertheless I tasted a bit and I like to add a bit more into my programme this blended learning stuff that you're all talking about this is you Thanks Don so these are the kind of forward roots into how you could access or why would you access our digital learning design service obviously new programmes that's the kind of easy starting point that we're involved with right from the start there aren't so many then they may or may not want to engage with this of course it's something that we offer but they may have existing ways of working that they're going to be doing that but we also will do this in new programmes period of view switch in mode of delivering given that example I've already blended it's online and what I think is particularly important actually is the fourth one school initiatives between this improvement it's not necessarily a sort of formal programme period it should always be driven by very formal things it should be driven I guess maybe this is too idealistic by just this belief that teaching I was a primary school teacher at one point the culture in primary schools is you do a teacher training degree newly qualified teacher you have insect based you have training you reflect on your practice it's something that takes a lifetime to develop your teaching skills because I feel that the HG culture this is very different not even as a teaching qualification to begin with I think that fourth one there are people certainly that we work with who do things I just want to improve things I can see from whatever modern evaluations talking to students at NSS whatever that there's a lack of engagement we could do things differently there's always some key people in an institution that works with school science and technology the dean really gets the whole blended learning importance and what we do digitally it's been long commented on the amount of resource that goes into the states and the universities the learning spaces how much money is spent on big lecture halls yet the budget for learning platforms has been quite limited slightly changed a bit with the pandemic but then of course post-pandemic as already has been mentioned that's all finished now let's just go back to how it was which has happened to some significant degree I think so this digital learning design services one attempt we're making to not revert to the mean to say let's carry on let's think about the design of learning activities in different modes we have done hybrid workshops as well we've amended the story board to work with people teaching hybrid programs and last but least one is here as well Thomas yeah there's a lot on there but I think the key thing to say about this slide really actually is I think one of the risks with learning design methodologies processes where people talk a lot about our job and cultures and ways of thinking and it's a change management thing is we're not saying we're the digital education team we must do storyboarding and follow the ABC process and everything will be measured so the key thing from this slide for me anyway is number one which is finding out about their context where they're at what their priorities are we have worked on some modules where luckily someone had done some evaluation of this research that was really handy I'd always have that but I think you know anyone who's at the Code Learning Design talk a couple of months ago it was a really good discussion about starting from we talked about starting from our students around we start with where academics are we know about the trying pressures we know that really our jobs can be part of this though in most cases they're not going to do also transformation of their programs I think it's going to be the case of taking out one or two things and doing it that way but starting from their own reflections their own analysis of what it is they think the program needs and then we flex to that and we look to work with them on ideas of those aims unless it's a family program in which case great then we bring different people all sorts of people academic skills are part of our lead team as well, multimedia people so any of these other people could come in academic values of course and then we just give them some kind of key of well here's the kind of things we can help you with but actually I think the starting point needs to be have a context of knowing what we can offer so they don't ask us to complete our edges but starting point really I think should be where they see the changes needed well they may even ask us to give them some review of what they've done and that's okay but I think starting from where they're at is really important so in further summary of this slide they start with a chat we're going to have a deeper chat and then we give them some options there's basically a whole range of different options one of the reasons why the ability to offer this service to our institution was so important to me I spent so many years I suppose seeing schools wanting to do this sort of thing and not having the capacity or the understanding that in-house could do this job for them and raising far more money than they needed bringing somebody from outside of them not that there's anything wrong with working with contractors as well but one of the key things I think that's worked for this the difference between getting a third party contractor in to build and design a course for you is we know the academics on this course I've worked with them for several years and I've been through different projects with them that have worked some have failed, some have delivered and that's built a kind of foundation level of trust with them they can go all right well as Anora mentions in the chat it looks like it was a lot of work it was a lot of work we've got to deny that but the school believed in us they therefore invested in us to take time away from the rest of our work so that we could focus on this and gave us a chance to do it hopefully properly final slide is I think that goes to the current version of our online guide about it which is a start something that we're looking to expand further but this has got sort of everybody will be quite familiar with module baseline our version of it on there as well the case study video actually that we were going to show is available on that site as well so that's kind of the talk haven't we had you on the next bit any questions I like your story of the young collaboration do you think students would find that useful to see that themselves or do they see that could it be interactive that's a really interesting question what do you think yes I think if it could be interactive it could actually take you into places within your mood or wherever and it just gives you good basically the map interesting question firstly I think you don't involve students enough in their own design for obvious reasons it's quite difficult the logistics recruiting and getting them with our students in particular managing their work several days a week the community students hard to get them in but it's still even that doesn't always lead we've tried this with research projects focus groups I think one thing we came with is trying to push that further and then yeah I think there's something around how the storyboard is now academic teaching sets us well this isn't how I think about my teaching I need something else so we have a more detailed kind of plan but then again it's quite common when people go to the MC storyboards there's something more detailed sort of thing spreadsheets but I think I mentioned the graphics thing one of my interests was let's take the storyboard and then turn that into an infographic so that again we're explaining more clearly to students one of the things that comes up is quite interesting difficult question universities state on their websites this is our approach for blended learning and it's a very generic plan thing it doesn't mean anything and of course even within one institution you have quite different approaches we teach a wide variety of things engineering, law, nursing etc so the approach to blended learning is very different if you're going out into a placement so I think there's something around not just what I'm going to blanket institutional statements about how blended learning is and also the module specs not really user friendly students often don't even look at them read them so I think there's something about taking the storyboard and displaying it within Moodle in some sort of well graphical format there's no tool in Moodle and magic to do that possibly H5P which is kind of a big fancy thing with H5P and I did look at that as well but actually visiting is much more suited to kind of blocks of information it's a really good sort of 45 foot and yeah the getting an education license edit in the browser, plug it into your Moodle update in visiting changes obviously wherever it is so there's something around being clear I know this as well if you look at the Open University way that you think one of the key things within their programs and modules understand that there's a fully online it's a planner, they're really explicit about saying to students here's what you're expecting us to do and we hear this a lot of people that they don't have the time or they're not quite sure what's the best way of doing this so one of the things we're going to push with Moodle Chambers beyond the basic things is the idea of weekly instructions plus math and video just could just be text whatever form that works, it's been a lot clearer explaining how they're going to be learning what they should do I would think, I'll add a little bit to that as well I would think there's probably if you go through it on a week by week basis there may be a little bit too much detail in students but generally they don't really have much in the way of a map through their modules, through their programs quite often one of the things that we discovered in doing this as well academics will often tend to design his planet arguably academics will often tend to design in lists whereas designers will design in grids and this became quite a attention that we discovered but if academics will typically design in lists they'll prepare that for students in lists whereas in this more graphical formula it's a little bit easier to sense sort of what fits well you know there's a couple of points from a Nora in the chat as well did that answer your question was the journey isn't it you've got like a detailed part of the journey it's like a week we're not going to show you the journey it takes five points I'm just going to pull a couple of a Nora's points out from the chat would you want to extend this i.e. the temporary works approach to more programs and will you be offering activity or resource development as well to the rest of the later design service I think Nora I can kind of bundle those together a little bit as we said temporary works was a lot of work for us but we were in a position to be able to put the work in shift away from to get other people to do the rest of our day jobs and focus on this to make sure it works which was a great help and the way that we've ended up framing it to the school a little bit really hello there part of the way that we've sort of framed it as well is this is effectively the gold standard so if schools, programs they want the gold standard then the cost of that to them is further investment in our team for a learning designer contract they'll sit within our team and you'll get a good job now you can do a storyboarding workshop that's maybe the silver standard you get some you know an afternoon co-design work with learning technologists students around the table subject matter experts as well and you get much deeper planning and design work than you usually get however that's less cost to everybody but ideally in our as well, I mean in some cases we're also obviously this makes our work more interesting, more engaging, fun as well so ideally we do want to be involved in sort of making some of those learning resources as well they often so rarely have the time to actually produce and develop themselves but we've got the knowledge to be able to do it we just don't have the subject I'll just add one thing Anora, I'll just add one thing as well which is the pushback which we've had a lot of trans backs here things haven't quite failed etc the kind of pushback we've had from some people in the institution is this isn't going to scale how you're going to sustain and to be fair that's a totally legitimate question so I really like the whole Agile mentality but fortunately I've said to you a number of years ago now most of us were not given the Scrum Master's Agile training so we're satisfied Scrum Master's and I always like thinking but it hasn't really been in the institution these different things but by that I mean if we've got finite digital education team resource which we do, we've got X number of learning technologists, multi-million people learning design roles with the new budget management we just have some sort of prioritization large programs programs where NSS is poor there is a filter there is a way of saying right we're going to use the resource to use the agile well what gives the most value obviously in large programs or if you've got programs that are not doing so well, wear the reason wear the triangulation metrics not just in NSS but there are ways to do this and if it does work and it is helpful with the same value then maybe I'm just going to logical simplistic and naive then we might have to scale our learning design team resource with some university so if any of you haven't yet looked at Portman to Naples and so it's really good and they've got learning design in every school they're doing the story boarding they've done 400 workshops in a year and that's really impressive but there is a really tricky question that we don't have the answer to in the chat for us how will we then develop it but then you need to develop everything which as you said there are a huge amount of time in resource especially for those who need it even to speak to these people's power when it's doing intro videos it has a lot of work I didn't swear then it was being recorded in YouTube almost as pure teeth when they started in two years so when do we get involved in the development when we can run the ABC workshops I'm not going to say it's a really time question program but after you go and develop that it's going to be difficult some teams could do it but I don't think many teams could so it's about using our resource wisely and really thinking through how much multimedia so there's a question about video versus static media so just thinking about letting outcomes and just being rationalising prioritising that what can we do if it's just too much resource it's this kind of thing that's what we need we do have to wrap things up I'm sorry thank you very much thank you very much that's brilliant rather than having a break we just need to power through because we have our hard stuff at 45 right I don't know how we arrived at this topic we've learned in technologies career parts we all are us in this room and online as well we've all arrived at this career by various routes certainly really we've all come at it in different ways some initial thoughts the title says how did I get to where I am now well very good question what got you into learning technology in my case it was quite a while ago as we'll see on the next slide previous careers did we ever do anything before learning technology roles and if so what has that impacted having residual benefit we could be recent appointees we could have been around the block for years sorry I was writing this later tonight or even decades what was our job title say about what we do does it actually reflect really what we do maybe it does maybe and what maybe what type of role do we have are we a kind of grassroots learning technologist are we a senior more management level and picking up on some of the things that have been mentioned earlier around the focus of your post are you a strict learning technologist learning designer, academic developer project owner any number of ways in which we could look at the kind of role in which we occupy and also how what we do change or evolve and what are the reasons behind this these are some of the background thoughts that I've had around around being a learning technologist so my journey to where I am now which is you know you've got to make use of the logo on the slide somehow so so my journey to the old school music and drama and my media predecessor yeah so I started as a lecturer in art and art history hmm is that really helping with career and learning technology hmm well I started doing some teaching blended very basically took over as a part time learning technologist then became a kind of classic the early support learning tech person at university sorry for three years moved into a bad academic development role at Buck Beck for a year I'm now looking around the room thinking yeah where have I been so University Arts London BLE coordinator back to Blackboard kind of classic role there Jisk Julian former line manager yes so higher education technology advisor worked with a number of different universities around London colleges as well I'll skip over the dotted line for a second but then you know LTE services manager at St George's head of service at two places but one is maternity cover that was a really good year to choose to be maternity cover head of service wasn't it yeah at a complex place as well let's face it you know big Russell group university and all the rest of it so mix of private institution more mainstream higher ed yeah seen a lot of different places used a lot of different technologies you know worked with a lot of different disciplines worked with whole range of after things somebody asked me what I do the other day somebody who doesn't work in the sector of even higher education at all they kind of listen for 10 minutes so what you basically do is you wrestle an octopus every day you know whether it's whether it's the technology whether it's working with people whether it's you know whatever it is so yeah so learning technologist there's two words and yes I still have the only learning technologist at the school for the minute fighting that fight making the business case for an assistant yes let's get there let's do it so yeah so it is where I am now the same as where I was back in 2000-2003 if you look at what it says on the can it is right but there shake of head I agree with you there so yeah we're using different tools different technologies working with different people working in different sizes of institution for the first time in my career throughout all of this path I'm now the only first time I'm working by myself as you know okay part of a wider library team of six but still the only technologist at the school so yeah maybe I didn't end up there quite by accident because from there one of the places I was working with was here and I formed some professional links and contacts and current line manager was one of the key links I had then so follow the dotted line if you want to follow the dotted line in which case could I have those links well I would have if you didn't get the job done but but you know we all have our own reasons for the choices and the paths we take and this was kind of originally thought of as being framing for a wider discussion so maybe because of time well you might pick this up on a future meeting so you know we might individually like to reflect on what got us to where we are now what makes us stay in the role I was preparing to interview a set of new colleagues set of people for a new role the following day so one interview question where do you see yourself being in X years time what do you see yourself doing personally important or professionally important to you and I think having been through that fun Covid oh reflect on that and you think okay yeah you've got the possibility of being ahead of us but is that necessarily the most important thing you know it's the hierarchy of the thing that really crucial thing to you or is it actually for me those couple of years of being ahead of different areas was the time in my career when I actually done these hands on work with learning tech okay I'm still just strategically minded and if you look at my job description it says you'll be responsible for forming the learning tech strategy for the school which is great because it's just me doing that but I still have to get my hands dirty with everything to do with Moodle and everything to do with rolling out you know mentor or whatever it is we're going to be doing and you know so I'm actually in there getting my hands dirty every day which I think is great for me it's given me personally I think some more authenticity and credibility in terms of what I do I don't just talk it well with them so when you change role what makes you change that's if it just wasn't an end of contract you know are we looking at things in terms of internal promotion or moving on elsewhere how have you reacted to forced changes as well we might have had those in our time and what would help you be tempted away to other places or indeed make you want to run from your current place and I certainly don't want to run because I think one of the key things for me is I founded an institution which allies to some of my outside interests as well I write about music and I'm you know I'm invested in the discipline sets that I'm supporting daily and day out so I think that's really quite a key thing in terms of engagement with kind of my audience I can go in to a room of you know the opera making and writing team and talk to them about their MA program and go of course you know when you're working with you know a conductor or stage designer singers you know understand what those people do on stage because I've been around that kind of environment for a while and I know some of those people you know and all that stuff it just helps them as you were saying the previous thing really have them you know show you some buying because they've got some understanding that you actually have something that you can give them a return that is of value to them and understand where they're coming from as academics and students as well so yeah do we want to say a few minutes we do have time if anybody's got any questions I think it should this should be something we'll pick up in another session and perhaps a bit more interactive in the future it was more of a slave wanted to do that really does anyone have any questions or have anything they want to perhaps contribute those are some observations in terms of what you're saying can I miss these these two out and gone straight here but it's a little bit to do with whether an organisation is ready for you yes indeed so it obviously helps if you take the opportunity a new role where the organisation has sort of planned into you as a learning technologist planned you into their future yeah fantastic is that what I like I think it's definitely in another session we can pick up think about how we can incorporate that into a wider thing sure so we're going to skip past the break but it's going to be okay I'm Julie I'm head of digital education at City and just when you thought you'd escaped Generative AI as a last minute entry to make sure that every event has Generative AI so yeah that's me Julie just so you know in the session this morning there was a bit on Generative AI so this is the definition at City that we're using of Generative AI so it's a broad label you to describe any form of AI you could use to create new text images, video, audio, code or synthetic data so basically it's not your sort of little prompts in word like oh would you like to write best wishes it's a bit more than that it's about creating documents and images for you and we did a recent student survey and the students sort of let us know about this interesting quote from Charlie Brooker about AI I don't know if anyone's come across this so powerful tools but it's like growing an extra limb overnight we don't know how to use it it's amazing, brilliant but we keep clumsily knocking things over so I thought that was quite a nice analogy of AI and I think everyone's sort of panicking if you did grow an extra limb you'd be running they'll get up which seems to be sort of the situation thinking about what some of the main staff perspectives that have been coming out at city and probably in your own institutions first and foremost was that how do I maintain the integrity of assessments with all the news about students can now use it to submit assessments and they're going to be scored quite highly so based on that how can I redesign my assessments how will I know if the students use generative AI things that turn it into AI detection and tools but also we've got some staff say well how can I know how to use generative AI but also we've got a number of fields this is going to be tool that students use in law it's already used in developing legal cases in sort of marketing journalism it's already used there and cities being is an institution for business practice in the profession so our students go straight into industry they need to know how to use these tools staff also want to know how others are using generative AI I think there was a recent 101 case studies on using generative AI but also like I said how it's being used in industry a lot of our staff haven't worked in industry for quite a while so they're not up to date on how AI is being used so how can we bring in industry leaders to talk about the skills that students will need to know and I think there's a growing realisation that critical thinking skills are going to become more and more important so student perspectives we did a survey of students it got over 9000 responses I think AI got hold of it there's probably only about sort of 300 400 real students the rest of AI generated but yeah that was a bit of a shock waking up and finding 9000 responses but the students are like it's just an under tool it's like Google it's like a calculator it's there they're not overly phased by it they are concerned other students are going to have an unfair advantage that you know some are using these tools and others are you know very dedicated and go I'm not using this tool I know it's there I know I can use it in this part of my life but I'm not going to use it for assessments they do want to know what they are can use generative AI for so they do want guidance from us about that but they also know it's very beneficial from neurodiverse students so just seeing that blank page and getting that helping hand from chat GPT or Bard about how to get started on an assessment they want to be taught how to use it ethically and responsibly they know they will need to use it in the workplace so they want to embedded those skills so how is city responding so there's different approaches and I was going to do a poll to find out how you're all using it but our approach is embracing it I know other institutions have looked at it to say oh no we're going to ban this and others have said no we're just going to use detection tools we're going to try and outrun it but for us it's about embracing it it's going it's there it's going to be used everyone's already using it so how can we embrace this we set up a task and finish group it's got five subgroups and we report into our digital board which is a new board for city we've got a vice president for digital and student experience who works very closely with our BP education so we've got a digital board which oversees all things digital it's going to be overseeing our digital transformation work so I'm one of the co-chairs of this generative AI task and finish group we were originally tasked for six months back in sort of April time I think it's going to go on a bit longer than that and co-chair is Simon Haley from our business school we have five subgroups so one looks at what we're calling staff staff which is how can staff think about their assessments how can they think about embracing AI into their teaching but also what guidance do we need to provide for staff things like awareness raising workshops we have one which is the students group and that's looking at how we can support our students what guidance do they need what are their views on it how can we support them to use it effectively and responsibly then of course we've got the academic integrity side of things so how does it tie into policies like academic misconduct academic integrity and working with our quality department on that and looking at what we need to update the guidance we're not expecting a rapid change to our policy we're not expecting some smaller changes by and large our quality covers this and I think there was a nice example from Bath where when they describe collusion it's with someone or something else and I thought that was just a nice tweak there infrastructure is the other thing we're looking at in terms of AI detection tools but also what AI tools are we providing so we know the co-pilots coming in Microsoft we've talked about should we be getting chat GPT licenses for lecturers what should we be providing for students but also all the other side of things do we need to update other policies things like data protection what guidance do we need to give staff and students about what data they put into these systems and then finally a new one we formed was around research it hasn't been something that a lot of people have been looking at but we were looking at research integrity how you can use AI to write research grants how you can get it to do literature reviews so how does this impact on the research side of things as well right my first poll which I'll just activate is just to see how many of you have actually got a group in your institution that's looking at this I'll just activate that so for those on zoom it's just pollev.com slash julie vose you can go into a web browser and hopefully you can load that up looking for everyone that's fine I can't see any responses coming through just yet I can't see any responses here it's just not showing on the main screen for me there we go so 69% 71% I've got yes a couple of no's and some don't know so most people have got some sort of group looking at that that's good okay I'll move on to the next slide so what are we focusing on the city so as I mentioned a lot of it is about promoting this better understanding of AI I think there's a lot of scare mongering out there especially with all the reports in the media so it's just raising awareness that it isn't this big scary beast it is something that we can control in some way because it's about how can we be responsible in using it this effective use of the tools as I said updating our policy and other regulations and just keeping them under review because it's a changing situation and I think the challenge we've got in higher education is committees and you meet at certain times and you have to go through all these committees in order to get something processed and then by the time you've done that there'll be something else coming along so trying to be a bit more agile about how we do this but thinking about these implications for teaching and assessment I think everyone's focused on assessment but it's bringing it back and going how can we embrace AI in our teaching as well and what we don't want is everyone to go oh right okay all our assessments are going to be put something into chat GPT and then critique it again it's giving guidance on how you can best use it and tying it back to what students will need to do when they go into industry and then thinking about when and how genitive AI can be used by students and staff as a support tool and it's interesting some of the narratives being around oh well students they can't possibly use it to structure their essay and they can't use it to generate some you know sample text but staff oh no it's right for us we can generate lesson plans we can get it to write our MCQs for us this is amazing so how do you manage that that narrative between staff can do some things but students can't so another poll here was just trying to get a feel for everyone's institutional response so are you prohibiting it so no AI allowed are you trying to outrun it so you're adapting your current practices to make it more difficult to use generative AI or are you embracing it or do you not know it might activate through as I'm navigated through everyone's prohibiting it so far that's that's a good sign so quite a few don't know 40% embrace 13 others what other approaches have people got anyone in the room kind of an extra so students aren't allowed to use AI by default but teachers can build it in I think that's the approach we're probably looking at although we're embracing it actually there will be times when it's like if you've not been told you can use AI then the default position is you're not allowed to use it but if you have been told you can use it then you really need to make sure it's clear how you are doing it you know are you acknowledging it in some way do you have to provide the prompts how much information do you have to give the lecturer okay so what have we done so far so we've created initial guidance for staff and students and we're adapting it as things change we have reviewed our policies around academic integrity and misconduct we opted out to turn it into AI detection functionality I think most people did but there were some who didn't and it's been great to see how they've been testing it out I think we'll see what they're doing next week where we can sort of get together with other institutions to see what their experiences have been we are looking at switching it on within a sort of subtenancy and testing it out there we have run a couple of workshops with staff about generative AI they've generally been very positive but they do want more information more case studies about how it can be used and a lot more support as I said we've conducted some surveys on generative AI and some interesting themes coming out there as I've mentioned we also asked the academic integrity officers their experiences of AI use and assessment so there have been some cases where suspected use of AI has been found and it's how do they work through that you know especially when you don't have a detection tool I think staff are used to having turn it in from the plagiarism side and I think that they do want something that gives them an indication but I think it's getting across that understanding that this isn't foolproof it's not like with plagiarism there isn't a source you can necessarily point to and say it's definitely being copied from here as I said we've discussed the role of AI in research and we've just gone through so many events about generative AI every week there's at least five or six I just can't keep up so this is what we're currently sort of rambling with is what we're calling the spectrum of AI uses from acceptable so spell check what do we think that okay grammar check yeah enhance search yeah assisted writing correcting your style and tone is that okay maybe something like coil bot paraphrasing yeah summarising or interrogating unread sources that's used as an assisted term is that okay yeah great generating a first draw yeah an uncritical copying of AI this is not fine this bit it depends this is the problem students want to know exactly what they can and can't do hopefully there's a sector we can agree because I think that's the other challenge if we're not doing this as a sector I'm allowed to do this in my institution well it's not fair I'm not allowed to so just final poll just to find out what you're all doing so this is just free text so yeah what's your institution been doing anything new her one institution was creating a code of conduct with students around how they can use AI I thought that was a really nice idea I might steal okay so that's a response coming through the committee's yes I seem to be bounced between different committees at one point because digital board want to discuss it and then education employability board want to discuss it then we get taken to education quality committee then you go back to the other one and they all want to know something about what's going on other people have been doing focus groups students going to the staff and students yet forming working groups waiting to see what others do I think that's the thing we're also waiting to see and the Russell group which was very common sense I thought I don't know those of you in Russell group institutions and decentralizing the response yeah that's something we've wrangled with is how much can come from the centre and how much actually needs to be devolved down to individual module leaders and around some of the guidance but we were talking about should we have a sort of an options board for lecturers so option one is no use of AI down to full use of AI and then at least for the students there's clear guidance for each level rather than each lecturer having to come up with their own text around how AI can be used in their assessment some people are doing staff development sessions high level academic integrity statement yeah so a lot of people are putting in place these statements about how AI can be used you're talking staff making them aware the point that there are some who haven't seen chat GPT in the world yet a lot of staff haven't had a chance to play with it but also we found that students had never used this sort of tool had said in the survey which was fully anonymous that they hadn't used this sort of tool so I think there's a lot of people who haven't really paid much attention to it so Julie can I just add we have to can we get access to it can we have a site license they're going to be aware that they can physically go and create an account lack of awareness yeah we've had staff asking can we get a site license and I know other institutions have been asking that but apparently that won't happen it will just have to be embedded into other tools but staff want access to the paid for version so they know what students are getting access to if they are choosing to pay so it seems like lots of activity happening in our institutions so just wanted to put a couple of useful links our student guidance is openly available our staff guidance is on SharePoint so we can't share that I found the Monash guidance really really useful in the early days we'll have a look at that if you haven't and this was a video recommended about chat GPT for teachers so it just has some examples of putting assessments in which is something some of our staff have done they've gone through and put all their assessments through to see what sort of output comes out and if you haven't come across it the GIST National Centre for AI they have regular updates on their blog they've been doing some focus groups with students so definitely have a look at that one that's it for me thank you thank you I've got one about the general sector everybody's committing a lot of resources I think somebody mentioned one of the forums or feedback could we not have some kind of contributing to any particular resource more contributing basically having one stop shop for guidance rather than using the region as a sector it would make sense the National Centre could do that I think I've read Open University going to be putting a learning package which is something we've talked about maybe we could just team up with the OU and then there'll be something on open learn that everyone can use to support their students because I think there has been talk of could we have a module where it talks about what is AI these are the ethics or responsible use and then it breaks down into the different disciplines and that could be a module that goes across the institution for example trying to get that through all the program approval would be very tricky if you wanted it embedded in but yeah, we need to be thinking about the guidance we get to students so I think some of our staff are looking at producing a small lecture series that staff can then embed into the teaching I did say maybe it should be done on TikTok because we have found that incoming students are using TikTok a lot more for learning I guess our current students are that didn't go down too well you know lecturers prefer the sort of standard lecture style rather than a very short TikTok video but maybe we can do a bit of both students teaching other students about what they are but you're right I think it should be as a sector we should agree all the different approaches so we haven't got that sort of in this institution this is the approach in this institution it's very different yeah I generated TikToks there you go funnily enough we now have a little bit more time so if there was any questions that anybody have that they really wanted to ask any of our speakers today the floor is yours so I know you had a question but I don't know if it's part of that time now enough okay if there's nothing on the chat then I think we wrap up then well but yeah thank you for everybody online and thank you for everybody for attending and yeah I don't think I have anything else so yeah we'll call it a day oh Julie can I just say thanks to Amy team that helped out we've put the event together I thought it was a really good event if anyone else would like to host the event we will be looking for a host the important meeting is normally sort of notes November time you don't have to provide lunch but it is always so yeah just that profile thank you it's quite intense if you're the host I'm sorry so next time we don't have any money unfortunately but I have got cheaper kind of a house being married so I'll be in touch with you and just a final thanks as well to Jason and Evan as well because they did help me put some of this together so and Jason helped with the tables this morning lifting and shifting so yeah thank you alright I'm going to close the chat now and everything so yeah thanks everybody