merchfon. Felly mae'r cymdeithwch yn credu i ddiogelwlad raddau peir Yunan yn peraseraedd cyfnod i biasbonwnol, yn fwy o'ch allud, yn ni'n bwrdd nes시�dd. Felly mae'r cyfnod i erbyn i'r cymdeithwch sydd gwaethaf yn gyfgrifuddur o arferfodu Cymru. Ystod, mae'r cyfnod i'r cyfnod i'r cyfnod i'r cymdeithwch fel Gwg Gordon. Felly mae'r cyfnod i'r cyfnod i wneud England i sicrhau a wgrych gyda'r gyda yn gallu tref yn gweithio i'r gwahanol. I will give a few seconds for the front benches to organise themselves. I will now call Derek Mackay, Minister, about 10 minutes. Presiding Officer, I would like to update members on the Clyde and Hebrides ferry services contract procurement. The Scottish Government would rather we did not have to tender these services. My party opposed the initial tender of these services in 2004, however it has been demonstrated that the EU law requires the Government to do so. It stems from the council regulation, applying the principle of freedom to provide services to maritime transport within member states, and the relevant provisions of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union. Specifically, article 4 of the maritime cabotage regulation, which states, whenever a member state concludes public service contracts or imposes public service obligations, it shall do so on a non-discriminatory basis in respect of all community ship owners. Furthermore, the commission guidelines to the regulation state, the commission therefore considers that launching an open tender procedure is in principle the easiest way to ensure non-discrimination. Successive Scottish Administrations have attempted to achieve an exemption from tendering, CHIFS since 2000, when the commission first wrote to ministers questioning the compatibility with EU law of the subsidies being paid to CalMac. In January 2001, the Scottish Executive announced a package of provisional proposals that she has submitted to the European Commission for consideration. The commission responded in November 2001, agreeing to the tendering of the CHIFS network as a single bundle but confirming the requirement to tender. In June 2004, Nicolle Stephen, the then Minister for Transport, announced that following discussion with the European Commission regarding the implications of the Altmark case, tendering of the entire CHIFS network would proceed. Ministers held further discussions and exchanges of correspondence with the European Commission between December 2004 and July 2005. The Scottish Executive concluded that tendering of the CHIFS network was a legal requirement and published its consideration of the requirement to tender in September 2005. The CHIFS contract was awarded to CalMac in August 2007 and the commission began an in-depth state aid investigation of Scottish ferry subsidies with the formal process beginning in April 2008 and concluding in October 2009. The commission looked into detail at how contracts had been awarded and subsidies paid. The decision that state aid payments for CHIFS were allowable and proportionate recognised that the contract had been awarded in compliance with the maritime cabotage regulation. The position of the commission in relation to the tendering can be seen clearly from decision C16 stroke 2008, 28 October 2009. More recently, in 2012, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Keith Brown, wrote to the then competition commissioner, Almunah, stating that, I would therefore encourage a review of the requirement to tender ferry services to ensure that the rules are proportionate and appropriate to the sector and support the provision of these essential services. Commissioner Almunah replied that, consequently, the commission strongly advocates the widest possible use of open and transparent tendering procedures when public authorities and trust companies with a public service obligation. We are obliged to tender CalMac services. That was recognised by the previous lab-lib administration. We recognise the outcome of the commission's investigations, our legal obligations and are bound by the precedent that they set. A lab-lib coalition initiated the first tendering of the CHIFS ferry services contract. Some opposition members who supported the tender then appear to be suggesting that we break EU law, the consequences of which would surely result in challenge. Let me be clear why we will not breach the law. If we were not to tender the services, we put the services themselves, the subsidy we provide them with, the routes, the vessels and the investment at risk—a free-for-all on Clyde and Hebrides services would seek competition in some islands and a reduction in services to others. That is not what this Government wants and I do not believe it is what the opposition or island communities want either. The RMT will undertake industrial action on CalMac ferry services today, tomorrow and Friday of this week. Action has been taken to support island communities and the travelling public at this time. As islands minister, I appreciate the full nature of those lifeline services. Unions express concern for CalMac's proposals for changes to the existing pension scheme and how pensions would be treated in the next CHIFS contract. They are also opposed to the tendering process being contested by CalMac and Cerco. Ministers have actively engaged with the trade unions to develop a tender that provides employment and pension protections to the current workforce. The Cabinet Secretary and I have met with the unions on a number of occasions and provided assurances in particular that a fair, affordable and sustainable pension scheme will be written into the new CHIFS contract. We remain committed to further engagement and dialogue with the unions to ensure that appropriate employment and pension protections are included in the invitation to tender and subsequent contract to operate the CHIFS services. The cabinet secretary will meet in London with the RMT to discuss a way forward. A number of meetings have also been scheduled between CalMac ferries and other trade unions to discuss the pension issue, and we will continue to encourage the current operator CalMac ferries Ltd and the RMT to engage in meaningful and constructive dialogue in an attempt to resolve the current dispute. The current tender process does not involve the Scottish Government selling any assets or controlling interest to the private sector. It is a tender for the provision of a state aid subsidy to an economic operator for operating lifeline services for a set duration of eight years. It is, of course, not possible nor indeed appropriate for Scottish ministers to predict or prejudice the outcome of the tender process. I would emphasise that no matter the outcome, of the tender process, Scottish ministers will retain ownership and control of all the vessels and ports currently under public ownership as now. We will set routes, timetables and fares as now. We will retain full control of the services provided by the operator through the public service contract as now. Contrary to reports in the press, there shall be no cherry picking of routes and successful bidders cannot cut routes. The specification that is set by ministers is designed to protect and enhance our lifeline ferry routes, not to diminish them. The administration has invested significantly to support lifeline ferry services, commissioning of new vessels and harbour infrastructure since it came to power. A record of £1,000 million has been invested on port infrastructure, vessels and ferry services from 2007 to date. Support for the road equivalent tariff delivered by the Government will have substantially reduced the cost of ferry travel for passengers, cars, coaches and small commercial vehicles on the CHIS network. The accusation that this Government wishes to privatise ferry services is simply not true. I want the highest levels of confidence that this is a fair and transparent procurement process. I am therefore announcing a further initiative in the procurement of ferry services in Scotland, the setting of an independent procurement reference panel to ensure fairness, openness and transparency in the procurement process. The remit for that procurement reference panel would include assurance that nothing has been done in the CHIF services procurement that could be perceived as discriminating against either of the tenderers. The panel shall be invited to review and offer comment to transport Scotland on the initial invitation to tender due to being issued on 10 July 2015, the interim invitation to tender due to issue in autumn of 2015 and a final invitation to tender due to issue in December 2015. Transport Scotland will take the views of that independent procurement reference panel into account and provide an undertaking to consider all relevant points made by the panel. Any necessary changes arising from the panel's assessment would be incorporated into the subsequent or final version of the invitation to tender. Six groups have already been set up to offer their insights into the procurement of the CHIS procurement. Those groups cover trade unions, local authorities, ferry user groups, tourism, economy and business, ports and harbours and health and social care and accessibility. Given the procurement rules, the procurement reference panel could not be involved in evaluating the bids or overseeing the appointment of the successful tenderer. However, it is proposed that a suitable representative could be invited from each of those groups to provide assurance to transport Scotland and the broad ferry user community that the procurement process has been taken forward in a fair, transparent and balanced way, representing local communities, various sectors and interest groups. Likewise, the obligation to appoint the successful tenderer rests with Scottish ministers and that cannot be transferred in whole or in part to the procurement reference panel. In the interests of openness and transparency, each version of the invitation to tender will be published on the Transport Scotland website and thereby available to the general public. I also propose that the final views of the procurement reference panel at each stage of the process are also published. I consider this initiative a positive step forward in ferry service procurement and I commend it to the chamber. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank the minister for early sight of his statement.  CalMac staff want to see the lifeline ferry services stay in public hands and provide certainty to staff, passengers and taxpayers alike. Does the minister accept the uncertainty created when Circle won the Northlink contract, which led to job losses, services cut and the first industrial action for 30 years? Some say that to create it for Circle to be driven by public service ethos is like nominating Jeremy Clarkson to be the next diolama. What reassurance will the minister provide to Parliament and CalMac were for us alike that history will not repeat itself? Finally, will, even at this 11th hour, the minister make an early and urgent visit to Brussels and make the case to the European Commission that lifeline ferry services do not need to be tendered under the use of the tech-hall exemption? Mr Stewart must have been listening to the statement that I have just given that this administration and previous administrations tried to get Europe to change their position. They have not done so, and that was a point that was accepted by the previous administration, who set the precedent that we are now bound by to re-tender these services in line with European procurement legislation. Are Opposition members prepared to play fast and loose with the possibility that the commission could order the cessation and recovery of subsidy to CalMac? Are they prepared to abdicate responsibility and place in jeopardy the lifeline services that the islands need? Not my words, Presiding Officer. The words of Michael MacMahon, MSP, from the Labour Party, showing the sheer hypocrisy from the Labour Party on this issue. It is important that we get the services running to the islands, so I will give the reassurance that we will continue to work incredibly hard to avert further industrial action and ensure that we carry out this procurement process in accordance with the law so that we can protect those lifeline services and get the best for staff and islanders alike. I thank the minister for the early side of his statement as well. I share the concerns of constituents and businesses, especially tourism businesses, as we enter the peak holiday period across the west coast and the islands about the economic impact of this very unwelcome industrial action. I call on the RMT, even at this late stage, to get back round the negotiation table and cancel the strike. Does the minister agree with me that CalMac have already made several serious concessions to the RMT, including commitment on no compulsory redundancies in their bid submission, and are prepared to negotiate further on greater protection to employees around terms and conditions of employment? Given the progress that has already been made through talks, does he agree that a negotiated agreement is perfectly possible and must be a priority and that the strike is not going to help? Also, could the minister give more details on how the members of the procurement reference panel will be chosen? I think that there is a reasonable point that Mr MacGregor puts around the messaging to the islands that they are very much open for business and they will suffer as a result of the industrial action. That is all the more reason for CalMac and trade unions to continue to engage and discuss matters. Yes, I do believe that there is a way forward and the cabinet secretary will cover more of that ground on Tuesday. We have been meeting with the trade unions and I think that we can reach a resolution and that is what we all want to seek. Yes, I will also meet with other colleagues, including Fergus Ewing, to discuss what more we can do to support the tourist industry as well, who will suffer as a consequence of the dispute. It is all the more reason for us to work together to offer any further action and have that matter resolved. However, we have given reassurance around pension entitlement and we want to have a constructive relationship with the employer and the trade union to take those matters forward. In terms of the question around the procurement reference panel, in addition to what I have said in the statement, I will write to the member with more thoughts on the composition of that panel, how they can be involved and how they will be selected. However, that will be a matter of course of engagement with the groups that I have proposed should be included in the first of a procurement reference panel for ferry services. I recognise the importance of the statement that the minister is making. I am also mindful that I have got a large number of people who wish to ask a question and I have no choice but to finish at 3.10, so can I implore members to keep the question as brief as possible and the answer as brief as possible to, in our time, a very basic to get everybody in? Kenneth Gibson, followed by Rhoda Grant. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome the minister's statement. Does he agree that tendering of the Clyde and Hebrides lifeline ferry services is required to protect those vital services? I set out and debated in this chamber on the 14 September 2005 by Labour and Liberal Democrat MSPs that include a number in the chamber today, and the accusations of privatisation from such MSPs are incendiary in terms of this dispute. Do nothing to resolve it on behalf of other constituents and are wholly opportunistic? Of course. I would agree with that sentiment. We want to conclude this dispute, move forward in the interests of staff and services and islanders, and there are many members. Some of them are present today who said in years gone past that this exercise was necessary. They seem to have changed their mind. I suspect that it is more down to political posturing rather than anything else. Rhoda Grant, followed by Michael Russell. The minister has insisted that the awarding circle of the contract would not amount to privatisation. However, Angus MacNeill MP is quoted in Nam Pepper saying, we do not want to see a situation on Friday when Government-owned Caledonian McBrain has its hebridean boats tied up while privately run circle sails to the Northern Isles. In light of that, could I ask the minister to explain when is privatisation, not privatisation? As I have said before, the vessels, harbours and service will continue to be in the ownership of the public sector. Other members of this chamber, other parliamentarians, may be able to express a view between the two tenders who they would like to be successful. Ministers cannot prejudice that process and we have to work in accordance with the law. However, we will put those lifeline services first. We will work for a resolution in the interests of staff and we will do everything that we can to avert strike action and I have been clear on exactly what the services would look like in terms of the ferries plan and what is proposed. Michael Russell, followed by Tavish Scott. My constituents, many of whom use these services on a daily basis, will warmly welcome, as I do with the minister's definitive, clear and comprehensive statement that will counter the cynical but very damaging mischief-making from the opposition. On the matter of the regrettably necessary tender, will the minister ensure that the tender emphasises experience and quality of service and not merely price and that the new stakeholder group overseeing the process, which I warmly welcome, is chosen with that in mind so it can advise on a practical basis what my constituents need every day from a publicly funded ferry service, not simply look closely at what those services might cost the Scottish Government or anybody else? I think that that is a very important point to bear in mind that when considering the tenders and the procurement process, I can advise that both quality and cost is taken into account and quality is very important to the islands. Therefore, I can reassure Mr Russell that that matter has very much been taken into account. Of course, the procurement panel will have a view on that as well, and they will be consulted on their view on that matter. Tavish Scott, followed by Dave Thomson. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank the minister for courtesy of his statement. You know that Mr McLey was not in the Parliament in that first term back in 2003, but I can tell him that his party at that time advocated breaking the law, so I do not know where all this is coming from today. Will the minister accept that the RMT concerns leading to the strike affecting islanders has been fuelled by CalMac losing the Scottish Government's Northern Isles shipping contract to Circle on unspecified and frankly unbelievable quality grounds despite being the cheapest bid, a fact that Audit Scotland is bound now to investigate? Minister. Oh, Mr Scott may not have been in the chamber at that earlier stage. Neither was I, but he was in 2005 when he voted for a motion that said that the tendering of the Clyde and Hebrides lifeline services is required to protect those vital services. Johann Lamont and other members have said the same thing. In terms of the specific question, we will of course learn the lessons of any procurement exercise, but we will do so in keeping with the letter of the law delivering first class public services that people depend on, and we intend to protect the rights of and the interests of staff as well. That is why I will continue to engage with CalMac to ensure that the process is above board. To give assurance that it is a level playing field, that is exactly why we are convening the first procurement reference panel to give people that reassurance. Dave Thompson fell by Mary Fee. I want to come back to the immediate impact of the strikes later on this week. I too am very concerned for my constituents and for tourism businesses in particular in my constituency and further afield. I wonder if the minister could elaborate a wee bit on what he is doing to help mitigate the effects of the strike later on this week. The impact of the strike is likely to be varied across the network. Today and tomorrow, CalMac estimates that around 80 to 90 per cent of service provision is likely to be delivered. On the main strike day on Friday, the major vessel routes are expected to be off, so my advice for the travelling public would be to check with sources of information such as CalMac. The Scottish Government resilience unit has met twice on this subject. There has been ministerial involvement to ensure that the impact of industrial action is minimised. We have been having extensive messaging on road and rail networks and advising travellers of ferry disruption of the impact. We are asking people to check with CalMac. We are trying to help individuals and groups through what is a difficult time for the islands in CalMac. I should more specific information on the revised timetables for the rest of the week. I hope that the on-going efforts will have any further actions. Mary Fee fall by Mike Mackenzie. The Government frequently tells us that the use of private companies in the NHS is privatisation. With that in mind, does the minister agree with me that to award the contract for lifeline ferry services to a private company is in fact privatisation, despite the frequent protestations that come from this Government? Further, the Government is simply dancing on the head of a pin to continue to refute that the vital lifeline ferry services will in fact be privatised. I can tell Mary Fee that what I am doing is trying to protect public services, avert strike action and support our island communities. I am not quite sure what the Labour Party is doing during this period. I do not accept the charge that this is privatisation. I have already outlined how the vessels and harbours will remain in public ownership. The specification and services provided is to be clear. Of course, Mary Fee hails from the west of Scotland, where the leader of Glasgow City Council has said that the operator will be able to cherry-pick services and routes. That is not true. The dispute is being stoked by ill-informed comments from Labour politicians, and you should stop it so that we can get on with the business of providing quality services to our island communities who depend on those lifeline services. Mike McKenzie for the violin Smith Thank you, Presiding Officer. In order to help to put this red herring to bed if that is not too mixed a metaphor, can the minister offer any detail on what effort successive Administrations have made to achieve an exemption from tendering ferry services from EU rules? I think that I covered a great deal of this in my statement. If Mr McKenzie would like further information, I am happy and able to provide that with more of the detailed correspondence and information around the exchanges that have taken place to try to get an exemption for Scotland and our ferry services in that respect. It shows that our efforts have not been successful, unfortunately, to stop the necessity to tender our services. That was the same position for our previous administration as well. However, lobbying by the cabinet secretary was able to secure an extension of current services and also we have not had the unbundling of procurement as well. We were able to make some progress, but not the process of tendering itself. I am happy to share that information with Mike McKenzie. If the Government is determined to persist with tendering in this contract, will the minister at least try to protect staff by decoupling the pension scheme from the tendering process, including the contract guarantee of no compulsory redundancies and also include no changes to staffing levels or conditions of service without agreement being reached with the RMT? Quite frankly, the alternative is free rein for Serco to maximise profits and to attack jobs and conditions if the minister gives him the contract. I have to restate that we cannot prejudice the outcome of the process, but the commitment is that we will work with the trade unions and with the operators and through the procurement exercise to try to get the best to safeguard the interests of the employees. That willingness to co-operate to work positively is most certainly there, and we and Goodwill have offered further meetings. We have set out a position in terms of pensions, being fair, affordable and sustainable. We will continue to work constructively with the trade unions, but we have to comply with the law because if we do not, those services will be subject to challenge, and that would be devastating for island communities and for the staff concerned. Stuart McMillan, by John Finnie. My wife works part-time at CalMac, as I have previously declared in the chamber. I welcome the statement and the introduction of the independent procurement reference panel, and I would be grateful if the minister could provide all MSPs with more information on it, and would the Government consider extending the use of such panels for other procurement exercises? I have advised the early thoughts on how it would work. This is the first time an independent procurement reference panel has been used in the tendering of our ferry services. We will review and learn lessons from the impact of the panel on the procurement process and consider its application to future tenders, but there was already engagement processes under way. However, I am sure that that will add confidence that the process will create a level playing field for all involved. Minister, I am sure that you would be keen to recognise that many RUT members are valued parts of our island communities as well. I am trying to understand who is in charge here. You talked in your statement about retaining ownership and control, quote, and another quote, retain full control of services. If that is the case, will you instruct CalMac to meet the modest assurances that RMTC can expect of terms and conditions, please? There are live discussions under way, and we have encouraged CalMac and the trade unions to be positive and constructive in their approach. It is not for me to say that CalMac should accept all the demands from RMTC, but I believe that the potential for an agreement is very, very close. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise for covering an area that has been mentioned already, but perhaps just to go right back, my understanding from Neil McCormack, who was an MEP at the time when the agreement was sealed, recognised that, at the time of the discussions in Europe, that other island nations within Europe asked for derogation and got that in terms of competitive tendering for lifeline services. I hear that the cases that have been made—I know that the previous Governments in this Parliament have made the case or have declared that they have made the strongest case possible. Does the Minister know if there is a time for a review of any of this? It is a number of years now. Since this agreement was made and Scotland, I think, badly represented, I have to say, at the time, not by anybody representing Scotland and certainly not by an MEP representing an island community. Sorry, you need to bring it to name, minister. In essence, the questions around efforts on pursuing an exemption, extensive efforts have been made and, in short, we will continue to make efforts to try and get an exemption for Scotland's services, but so far we have not been able to do that, neither had the previous administration been able to do that. Very briefly, Neil Findlay. RMT delegates at the AGM on Monday were scathing about the minister's mangled protests about attempting to explain why privatisation was not privatisation. Can the minister guarantee that the public sector envelope will actually be open this time? Briefly, minister. I think that that is a typically unhelpful comment from Neil Findlay, as beneath contempt, and he should join with others in trying to find a positive way forward to genuinely help the employees' interests and the island communities. We will undertake this process in accordance with the law, good practice and, in establishing our procurement reference panel, give confidence that we have presented a level playing field and best practice to deliver a fully compliant procurement process that delivers first-class public services. The next item of business is a stage 3 proceedings on the mental health Scotland bill. I will give a few moments for members to organise themselves.


Senator, and thank you for your championing the Middle Mile Broadband Deployment Act. I agree that I don't think it has a direct impact, but it has the complementary effect of if we don't have the infrastructure, then we don't serve rural areas. If we don't have the spectrum, then we also can't serve rural areas with an all of the above approach to make sure that folks are connected. River, wireless, fixed wireless are all part of the solution to make sure that everyone is connected.


Hello there Hello, can you hear me? Can you hear me okay? Yes, I can hear you just fine Right, and let me introduce Yushan. She's a researcher also working on V-Taiwan at the moment Hi, great to meet you Okay Very excited It's going quite well. Yes. I mean so we're recording this right? Yes, and I'll send you a video And if you like the video to be published as is we'll just do that. Otherwise, we can do a transcript too Yeah, I think it's a good idea to publish the video the more transparency the better in life So it's great to meet you I'm a big fan of your work both on the outside and then and then having gone into government And I think we have a few mutual friends like Jeff Bulgan and Colin and others So I'll give you just the very sort of top line of the situation and what we're thinking of doing and then it would just be good to get your Advice any reflections from your own experience things that you learned along the way and Things that didn't work as well as things that did work So You know the situation is as follows The the Labour Party is the principal opposition party in the UK I'm a long-standing member. I was a candidate previously to be general secretary of the party on a sort of outsider Manifesto democracy and movement organizing and that sort of thing Obviously got knocked out in 2011 But now I am one of the probably the main contenders There is Unresolved tension in the Labour movement as a whole There are sort of historic splits and divisions which have been pretty effectively papered over After a very impressive movement driven performance by Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party in the snap general election last year But now there is sort of stagnation in the polls for the most part So and you know, obviously there is a bureaucracy and there are You know factions and there are all sorts of those sorts of things going on people aren't really having constructive Discussions or arguments. They aren't always saying what they really think or feel They are using categories to define each other which don't really reflect the the underlying complexities So, you know, I'm somebody who's been passionate about deep democracy and deliberation for, you know, 20 plus years more or less since I saw the internet and I've been trying various different things and following various different innovations and it seems to me that what you've done With VTaiwan is one of the more interesting examples. It's particularly for being able to represent a Diversity of views and then to start to move towards loose consensus and then to be practical as well So, so that's why I'm excited and yet we're looking at launching a bottom-up digital democracy and deliberation platform for the Labour movement in the next 24 hours here in the UK under the banner of Labour democracy.net and We want to use Polis and I'd love your advice about how to go about this So what's the people you're going to reach with LabourDemocracy.net? Is it restricted to party members or pretty much anyone? Well, we're an MVP initially so we weren't restrict access the distribution the sort of Driving of people into the platform will be primarily through Labour related networks So it would be mostly I think people who are either members or supporters of Labour Party Although there will be a little more diversity in the mix and probably a bit of racking behavior Binding mechanism, I mean if you have a like outstanding Controversies or outstanding consensus who will be bound to go over them one by one presumably in the live stream fashion That's interesting and I Can you expand on what you mean there because I don't quite understand the way VTaiwan use Polis It is not representative it is more of a representation Yes, what people care about and allow us to serve as the minority Opinions that nevertheless should have been more amplified or discussed Yes among the general populace it also let people see that there are broad consensus Whereas in other online forums that the most controversial or the most as you said a categorical Or labeling part tend to needlessly use people's attention so In our experience the way to reward consensus so to speak of is just to promise to Give a binding discussion Where the agenda is set by the global consensus as well as the within Intergroup consensus and so that's for example the I don't know party People will use that as the debate platform or whether yes, we'll go over it in a sort of synthetic Document or whatever that that is what I mean by a binding mechanism. I understand I understand you're basically talking about how the outcome of the process is landed into decision-making Which I agree is very important Let me answer that question indirectly and then directly So the indirect answer is as follows. There has been a long process over, you know, more than a year of a sort of a working group linked to the party around Digital democracy and discussion on pilots Related to the economic agenda and various other things which would be sponsored by the party and by its political leadership These Discussions have thus far come to nothing Through for a variety of reasons Principally, I believe inertia rather than any sort of malice But you know inertia is an iron law in institutions, so So obviously, you know, I know all about that and I know the people who've been involved and and this is a sort of a different approach Attempting to assemble in the square initially and then bring the process into the center of power One route for that is that I am currently one of the prominent candidates for general secretary of the party there is a Application an interview process which is ongoing will be live for the next five days And Through that process, we will be having an open public conversation with anybody in the lay of movement who wants to get involved and I will report back on the outcome of the conversation at the conclusion of the Process which will determine the next general secretary of the party and we will have the opportunity then to carry the process of engaging forwards my own belief is that There are both formal and informal sources of power So, you know, for instance, if we were to manage to engage the principal opinion forces opinion formers many of the elected representatives In such a process Then it starts to build up its own kind of social power Although, you know, my intention is to offer to the party a Kind of formal Engagement between it and this But my expectation is that the inertia of the party will mean that there will have to be a process of exploration about the relationship For instance between the National Executive Committee of the party its National Policy Forum and this rather more free-flowing space So that's the thought process. Does that make sense to you? Yes So there's a short-term binding process where you essentially crowdsource your interview content for over the next five days I'm respecting the interview process, but we're going to have an open conversation along the way But amplifying right making makes it clear and I imagine that you will put as your seed comments, right as the initial Polish Statements the statements that you either care very deeply about or the statement that you feel that will be controversial enough to warrant a Discussion, right? So so I mean that this is the short-term use of Polish But what what we've learned so far is that it really takes a few weeks Two to three weeks at least for people to come up with really innovative Statements that resonates with a large group of people So what you're essentially saying is that by the time people do that and hopefully reach Sufficient number of people it will form by itself as soft power that lets the party engage with the top consensus or the most controversial items With whatever way that you cannot promise in advance, but we'll probably materialize if the consultation goes well Exactly, so awesome Does it sound like a good plan to you? Well, well you shine is a researcher specializing in the use of the Taiwan and Polish and By the way, it's flying back to the UK. Yeah, so I'm a PhD student study at Dora University Jersey Department, so my Embedded I've taken Ethnographic approach to to understand what's going on in B. Taiwan. I know so I'm a reading my dreams So from what I've heard of what I learned from Audrey who is a master here. I do I do agree the It's important to have a Binding at this binding or more promise resolved to the participants Because it's it's kind of like a feedback for them so that they will There will be if they will gain the same achievement through through the participating otherwise, they would just say oh It's just participate, but they got nothing back. So what I've heard here they They they did they did all the participants know how they're going to deal with the consensus that collected from police and After that, yes, they'll make sure the to some degree the legislation or the related law will be amended So I do I do think this is Somehow quite important Yeah, I think I think you can successfully get people to to vote yes or no to any of your statements really but to Engage people sufficiently so that they really proposed something innovative That that requires a sense of purpose So yes, so that's the the main observation However, you're going to to accomplish it is of course your domain knowledge. Yeah Well, well the purpose is to collectively build a healthy and successful labor party and movement For the next century Which is a goal which is already shared among many people Although they may have different versions of how to reach that goal I Think what you're saying about incentives is very important and and I really agree with you about giving some sort of Forgotten your phrase binding or hard element to the to the outcome of the process I think that there are other incentives Uh, you know, one is the the incentive of basic, you know Yeah, there's a sort of very superficial thing that the Silicon Valley talk about a lot Which is around engagement and delight and uh, it seems to me bollis has attributes of engagement and delight which is helpful Uh, and I certainly know from my own work that people like answering questions But it is the process of sort of Seeking those compromise solutions not simply uh temperature check and reflection of the existing system But how do you transform the system? Uh, which is the piece of this which is particularly interesting to me? Uh, I think that there is also an unmet need and a pain point. Um, that lots of people have in the labor party in the labor movement That the party is not, um Living up to their hopes and dreams in terms of their lived experience of it the level of Suppressed or open conflict with it and its success in the electoral or the social context and so, um My my my thought process uh to begin this conversation I take what you're saying that this will take weeks to uh to take it to somewhere really interesting But my thought process to begin is to ask a simple question Which might be something along the line feeling this question Actually because feelings are something that people have trouble with in labor at the moment Um, uh, which might be something like what do we feel about our labor party and movement today? What's good and what's more difficult? Um, and then get people to surface their feelings about what's good and what's more difficult Uh, and then see where that leaves us. We will it will we will find ourselves in tribes immediately And then and then what do we do with that? Yeah, that's that's uh, I think it makes a lot of sense. Have uh, have collin Showed you um the new uh reporting mechanism of the police system where they automatically generate um a Plot diagram of this shape where you can see the most controversial the most diverse ones at the tail end As well as the most consensus making one which was this large group at the other end as well I've heard about this, but I haven't seen it. That's that looks beautiful. Right. So so Right, exactly. Yeah, so so I think that's part of the delight Yeah If you can show at the beginning of the protest conversation that what what your contribution will end up looking like this And uh, so that we can discover each other better and so on then I think that's very interesting of its own But I think only if you make it very clear that it will become such a pretty picture of of the collective intelligence Yes, yes, um And um, you know, and I think the thought process that's a really good idea I'm definitely going to do that And then the thought process is that we basically try and pull people in from right across the movement from its many different traditions I'm in the unusual position of not having Mades or many stroke any maybe one enemy And um You know, I don't believe in permanent entities anyway, so um Uh, I I I will be engaging all of my different friends and old acquaintances from the different strands of the movement So try and pull them into this conversation and and and get them to articulate their Feelings, uh, and then we will start trying to talk about solutions. Well, that's right. Uh, I think we share your non-belief. Yeah Good, I mean, it's the only way to go. Um, very good Uh, yeah, is there anything you would like to talk about? Yeah, and and and at the philosophical level, um, I was reading some of the case studies stuff and and there seemed to be some Uh, some Confucius stuff in there or some Lao Tzu. I wasn't entirely sure what what's how do you think about this when you sort of zoom out from the concrete Uh specifics of it and and think about the the broader context of governance in the 21st century Actually just having a discussion about that of how how eagle is really is the dub zero movement And v taiwan by extension that grow out the dub zero movement Um, you know our preferred license, uh, the copyright license is called the creative commons zero Which means that we give away even the right to attribution or academic citation So you can take v taiwan and say you made it and I I won't see you And then I think that's a a uh, yusheng was just saying that is a it's a quite a philosophical thing Thinking that we as individuals are having to just be be vehicles, uh, who? Those ideas or those consensus inhabit Right, so so we're not the the the heroes or protagonists It is through this process that consensus or rough consensus In habits us Through this process in this vehicle. And so I think this is of course very Taoism right very very lauzu And and I think this really informs our decision of not Fixating to any particular mechanism process or tool but rather focusing on a community that can continuously improve The process itself and even the community itself the structure The code of conduct and and everything so so this recursive public quote unquote I think is the core of the dig up zero movement and by extension v taiwan Yeah, that's really interesting and and um Can I ask that there is clearly a very significant role for The kind of leadership which opens the space by framing the right questions and Tight choosing timings and all that sort of thing How do you approach that? What do you think the best practice is in relation to how these conversations are opened and facilitated? Oh, yeah, how how does a a leader lead without ruling? The people did it themselves Yeah, there's this ancient tradition of describing how you do it like water All right, you go to the the low lows and places and solve everybody's problems, but let them think that they did it So so um, I think they did Maybe yeah, maybe they did So so yeah, I think in my work as the minister in charge of social entrepreneurship and social innovation My position is always that we're we're solving the problems of the problem solvers But we're not solving the social problems directly because the government apparatus is not the most efficient way of doing this And I understand you shared a history of social entrepreneurship So so the idea is that the government is always in the facilitating role always in a Role where it observes what is in need what kind of regulation Maybe made sense, but it's now causing trouble and so on and then have a fast like a weak Iteration cycle where we just look at all the pain points and all the feedbacks from the community and stay out in the way and Help resolve in a role box along the way. So that's my main leadership quote-unquote mechanism Okay, that's very helpful. And can I just ask you to step back and tell me In terms of your own kind of journey with this stuff I mean you you were part of cup zero and then there was the sunflower student movement and and then there was government Taiwan Can you tell me very briefly the story of that from your perspective in terms of the key junctures? Sure, I think the one of the very key juncture is that during the sampler movement People saw with their their Eyes that it is possible to scale The experience of listening to each other it used to Be a traditional thought that the politic or the hierarchies is the way it is because In the room of more than 20 people it's very difficult to form any useful decision at all And and so we have to be structured in a hierarchy because that's just how human communication how the wetwear Works, right? But but with the sampler People saw that they can just randomly draw by the occupied parliament join any of the 20 NGOs Facilitating their their talk on a particular aspect and magically have their opinion not just heard But amplified through a online mechanism that somehow become binding for tomorrow's Synthetics and deliberation And so as time goes by people see that their ideas Sworn into a consensus rather than just lost in the representative Letters and what wants to help that experience is very very difficult to go back and personally like since 1994 95 I was involved in the internet standard making community like ietf or W3c and in that world this kind of open multi stakeholder Deliberation where anybody gets to enter just by saying okay. I have a stake in it It isn't the norm right? It's normal and and people manage to Get a consensus out of hundreds or thousands of participants through the use of ICT tools So for me, it's like a indigenous Knowledge and for me the democracy representative one is something that I learned much later So for me, it's always just to get people into a state of mind Where they can listen to each other in the way that people did in the and still do in the internet society Yes Great That was really great We need to talk more at some point, but I will let you know how this goes as it unfolds And I may need to ask you a question if we have a crisis or something like that For your advice, but thank you. Thank you for taking the time. Um, can we can we also I've forgotten your name. I'm sorry Why Yes, if we can be in touch that would be great. I'm seeing palace of burdo later today I'm keen for us to plug in academics and researchers to whatever it is we do here so that It can be studied and Understood and reflected upon So, yeah, we want to do this open From beginning to end wherever the end is wherever the end is We we're we're just, you know vehicles we're just processing habits. Yeah, yeah Exactly. All right. Thank you. This is great. That was really really helpful Let me know when you have the video as well because I want to share it with your people. You will be ready In a few minutes. All right Take care. Thank you so much. Bye


Abstract silicon is a promising negative electrode material for high-energy-density leion batteries, LIBS. However, it suffers from significant degradation due to mechanical stress caused by lithiation. This stress causes volume expansion and lithiation in silicon, which is strongly anisotropic. Understanding this process and its implications on electrode performance remains poorly understood. To address this issue, researchers developed a new correlative electrochemical microscopy technique to study local interfacial degradation at the early stages of lithiation for three different surface orientations of silicon single crystals C100C110 and C311. The experimental strategy combined scanning electrochemical cell microscopy, SECCM, measurements with subsequent scanning transmission electron microscopy, STEM, images of high-quality cross-sections of silicon electrodes, extracted at selected SECCM regions, using a novel-save plus plasma-focused ion beam procedure. These studies revealed significant surface orientation-dependent nanoscale degradation mechanisms that strongly controlled electrode performance. C10 This article was offered by Daniel Martin-Yerga, Nibbari, Matthew E. Curd and others. We are article.tv, links in the description below.