Section 6 of On the Nature of Things, this is the LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox.org. Recording by Raven Notation. On the Nature of Things by Lucretius. Translated by John Selby Watson. Book 2, Part 3 In considering these points, it is proper for you also to have it impressed, as with a seal, upon your mind and to keep it faithfully entrusted to your memory, that there is nothing among all objects of which the nature is apparent before us, which consists only of one kind of elements, nor anything which does not consist of mixed seminal principles. And whatever possesses in itself more numerous powers and energies than other things, thus demonstrates that it contains more numerous kinds of primary particles and various configurations of them. In the first place, the earth has in itself primary atoms, from which springs rolling forth cool waters incessantly recruit the immense sea. It has also in itself atoms from which fires arise, for in many places the soil of the earth when set on fire burns, and the violence of ethno rages with mighty flames. Moreover, the earth contains atoms from which it can raise up rich corn and cheerful groves for the tribes of men, and from which also it can afford waving leaves and abundant pastureage for the brood of wild beasts raging over the mountains, for which reasons the earth alone is called the great mother of the gods, and mother of beasts, and parent of the human race. The old and learned poets of the Greeks, some that she, in her seat on her chariot, drives two lions yoked together, signifying that the vast earth hangs in the open space of the air, and that one earth cannot stand upon another earth. They added the lions, because any offspring, however wild, ought to be softened when influenced by the good offices of parents, and they surrounded the top of her head with a mural crown, because the earth, fortified in lofty places, sustained cities, distinguished with which decoration the image of the divine mother is born, spreading terror through the wild world. Her various nations, according to the ancient practice of their worship, call the Aedian mother, and assign her bans of fridgens as attendance, because they say that from those parts corn first began to be produced, and thence was diffused over the globe of the earth. They assign to her also the galley, because they wish to intimate that those who have violated the sacred respect due to their mother, and have been found ungrateful to their fathers, are to be thought unworthy to bring living offspring into the realms of light. Distended drums and hollow cymbals resound in their hands around the goddess, and their horns threaten with a hoarse noise, while the hollow pipe excites their minds with frigid notes, and they carry weapons outstretched before them as signs of violent rage, which may alarm with terror the undutiful minds and impious hearts of the crowd, struck with the power of the goddess. As soon therefore as, riding through great cities, she, being dumb, bestows a silent blessing on mortals. They strew the whole course of the road with brass and silver, enriching her with munificent contributions, while they diffuse a shower of roses, overshadowing the mother and her troop of attendants. Here, the armed band, whom the Greeks call by the name of Phrygian curities, dance round vigorously with ropes, and leap about to their tune, streaming with blood. Shaking the terrible crests on their heads as they nod, they represent the Dictian curities, who are formally said in Crete to have concealed that famous infant cry of Jupiter when the armed youths in a swift dance around the child struck in tune their brazen shields with their brazen spears, lest Saturn, having got possession of him, should devour him and cause an eternal wound in the heart of his mother. Either for this reason, therefore, armed men accompany the great mother, or else because the priests thus signify that the goddess admonishes men to be willing to defend the land of their country with arms and valour, and to prepare themselves to be a protection and honour to their parents. These pageants, though celebrated as being fitly and excellently contrived, are yet far removed from sound reason, for the whole race of the gods must necessarily, of itself, enjoy its immortal existence in the most profound tranquillity, far removed and separated from our affairs, since being free from all pain, exempt from all dangers, powerful itself in its own resources, and wanting nothing of us, it is neither propitiated by services from the good, nor affected with anger against the bad. The earth, indeed, is at all times void of sense, but because it contains the primary elements of many things, it brings forth many productions, in many ways, into the light of the sun. If any one, then, shall resolve to call the sea Neptune and Corn Ceres, and chooses rather to abuse the name of Bacchus than to utter the proper appellation of wine, let us concede that such a one may pronounce the orb of the earth to be the mother of the gods, provided that it still be allowed to remain its real self, but to return, then, to the infinite variety of atoms. The woolly sheep we often see, cropping the grass from the same plain, and the warlike brood of horses, and the horned herds, living under the same part of the canopy of heaven, and quenching their thirst from the same stream of water. Grow up of dissimilar species, retaining the parent nature, and all follow habits according to their kinds. So various is the nature of the matter in each kind of herb, so great is the variety of particles in each river. Hence, moreover, though the same parts, bones, blood, veins, heat, moisture, viscera, and nerves, make of any one you please of all animals, still these, being very different in themselves, are formed of primary particles of an entirely different figure. Further, whatever bodies, being set on fire, burn, show that there are cherished in their mass, if nothing else, those various seminal atoms, from which they are enabled to throw forth fire and cast up light, and also to put sparks in motion, and scatter abroad embers. Surveying other things with like reasoning, you will accordingly find that they conceal in their consistence the seeds of many things, and contain various conformations of atoms. Again, you observe many objects to which both color and taste have been assigned, together with smell, especially most of the gifts which you offer to the gods when you feel your mind affected in a debasing manner with religion. These things must therefore consist of various conformations of atoms, for scent penetrates where juices, which excite the taste, do not make way to the corporeal organs. Also, juices by their particular method, and flavor by its particular method, win their way to the senses, so that you may know that they arise from different conformations of atoms. Dissimilar forms of particles, therefore, combine in one mass, and things consist of mixed seminal principles. Besides, even in my own verses you see everywhere many elements common to many words, though you must nevertheless necessarily acknowledge that the verses and words consist part of some elements, and part of others, differing among themselves, not because only a few common letters run through the words, or because no two words, out of all, are alike in having any letter in common, but because taking the word throughout, all the letters are not common to all. So likewise in other matters, many common elements, as they are the primary principles of many things, may yet exist in dissimilar combinations among themselves, so that the human race and the fruits of the earth and the rich groves may justly be considered to consist each of distinct original particles. Nor yet is it to be thought that all particles can be combined in all ways, for if this were the case, you would everywhere see monsters arise, you would behold shapes produced half-man, half-beast, and sometimes tall boughs of trees grow out of an animated body, you would observe many members of terrestrial animals united to those of marine animals, and nature breeding throughout the all-producing earth, chimeras breathing flame from horrid mouths. Of which irregularities it is evident that none occur, since we see that all things being produced from certain seeds by an unerring generative nature can, as they grow up, preserve their kind pure and unmixed, and it is plain that this must necessarily be the case according to strict method and laws, for from the several sorts of food that are eaten, the particles suitable to each animal pass internally into its limbs and other parts, and being there combined produce motions fitted to that animal, but on the other hand we see that nature throws back upon the earth those particles which are unsuitable to the animal, and many, existing in imperceptible substances, escape out of the body, being wrought upon by the impulses and agitations of other particles, which effluent particles could neither be combined in any part, nor consent and be animated to participate in the vital movements, but lest you should think that animals only are bound by these laws, a certain order and regularity, let me observe, keeps all things distinct, for as throughout the whole of nature things dissimilar from one another are individually produced, so it is necessary that each should consist of a different form of elements, not that only a few elements are endowed with like forms, but because all, throughout all bodies, are not similar to all, since moreover, seminal particles differ, their intervals, passages, connections, weights, impulses, collisions, motions, must necessarily differ, variations which not only keep distinct the bodies of animals, but give peculiarity to the land and the whole sea, and cause the heaven to differ in nature from the earth, and now attend further and receive into your mind my precepts which I, with pleasing toil, have collected together, do not, by any chance, imagine that those things which you see before your eyes of a white colour consist, because they are white, of white elemental atoms, or that those which are black are produced from black seminal particles, nor suppose that any objects which are tinged with any colour whatsoever wear that colour, because their material elements are tinctured with a hue similar to it, for there is no colour at all in the elementary atoms of matter, either similar to that of the bodies in which they exist, or dissimilar, into the nature of which elementary atoms, if you think that the mind cannot penetrate, so as to form an idea of them, because they are without colour, you wander far away from the truth, since when those who have been born blind, and who have never seen the light of the sun, yet distinguish substances by the touch, which to them have seemed unmarked by colours from their earliest youth, we may understand also that substances actually untinctured with colour may be brought under the comprehension of our intellect, moreover whatever objects we ourselves touch in thick darkness we do not perceive to be tinged with any colour at all, since I prove it to be possible that atoms may be colourless, I will now show that it certainly is so, for every colour is, or may be, changed into all colours whatsoever, but this is a transmutation which primordial elements must by no means undergo, since it is necessary that there should remain something unchangeable, lest all things should be reduced utterly to nothing, for whatsoever being changed goes beyond its own limits, this change forthwith becomes the death or termination of that which it was before, be cautious therefore not to tinge the seeds of things with colours, lest all things for your gratification should be reduced to nothing, besides if no kind of colour has been assigned to primary particles, and if they are endowed with various forms by which they generate and vary all kinds of colours, and since, moreover, it is of great consequence with what atoms, and in what configuration, seminal particles are severally combined, and what impacts they mutually give and receive, you may at once with the greatest ease render a reason why those objects which were a while ago of a black colour may suddenly become of a marble whiteness, as when the sea, after violent winds have stirred up its waters, is changed in hue, and boils up into waves white as the whiteness of marble. For you may readily say of any object which we generally observe to be black, that when its material atoms have been disturbed, and the order of the particles changed, and some taken away and others added, if forthwith becomes possible that it may seem of a glowing whiteness, but if the waters of the sea consisted of cerulean atoms, they could by no means become white, for in whatever way you may disorder and commingle those atoms which are cerulean, they can never pass into the colour of marble, but if the atoms which make up the simple and pure colour of the sea were tinged with various and diverse colours, as frequently we see from different forms and dissimilar figures, is formed a perfect square consisting of only one figure, it would follow that as in the square we see the other different figures exist, so in the water of the sea, or in any other simple and pure colour we should see those wholly different and distinct colours from which the uniform colour of the sea proceeds. Further the different figures which make up the square by no means hinder or prevent the whole outline of the compound figure from being or appearing square, but the various colours of any substances which make up any compound substance impede and prohibit that whole compound substance from possibly being of one uniform hue. Then, moreover, the reason which prompts and induces us sometimes to impute colours to primary particles, namely that coloured substances are compounded of them, passes for nothing, because white substances, as the foam of the sea for instance, are not necessarily produced from other white substances, nor substances which are black from other black substances, but from substances of various colours, and because moreover white substances will more readily arise and be produced from primary particles of no colour than from primary particles of a black colour, or from particles of any other colour whatsoever that is adverse and opposed to white. Further, since there can be no colours without light, and the primary particles of things do not come forth into the light, you may hence feel certain that they are vested with no colours at all. For what sort of colour will there possibly exist in thick darkness, when colour is a thing which is changed in and by mere light, because it appears different as it is struck by direct or oblique light? As the plumage of doves which is situate around the back of the head, and encircles the neck, appears of a different colour as it is seen differently in the sun. For in one position it is affected so as to be red with the hue of the bright carbuncle, at another time, in a certain aspect, it is so changed that it seems to mix the colour of green emeralds with blue. The tail of the peacock also, when it is covered with a flood of light, changes its colours as it is presented in different ways, in like manner. And since all these colours are produced by a certain effect of the light, it must be considered that colour cannot be produced at all without that light. Since too, the pupil of the eye receives upon itself one kind of impulse when it is said to perceive a white colour, and another again when it perceives black and other colours. And since it is of no moment as to the feeling with what colour those things which you touch are distinguished, but rather of what shape they are formed, you may conclude that primary particles have no need of colours, but have only to effect the touch differently through the different forms in which they are combined. Besides, since there is no certain kind of colours peculiar to certain shapes, and since all shapes of seminal atoms may exist with any colour whatsoever, why, if we suppose that seminal atoms which are of manifold shapes have colour, are not those creatures which consist of those seminal atoms sprinkled over accordingly with all sorts of colours, each in its several kind whatsoever it may be? For under this supposition it might be expected that crows as they fly would often shed forth a white colour from white feathers, and that's one's if springing perchance from black atoms would be born black, or if from atoms of any other colour might be of any other hue whatsoever, uniform or varied. Moreover, the more any body is divided into small parts, the more you can see its colour by degrees die away and become extinct, as happens when gold is broken into small fragments. So purple and scarlet, by far the brightest of colours, when they have been divided thread by thread, are utterly deprived of lustre, so that you may from this infer that the small parts of bodies throw off all colour before they are reduced to their ultimate atoms. Further, since you grant that all bodies do not emit sound or smell, it consequently happens that you do not attribute to all bodies sounds or smells. So, since we cannot see all bodies with our eyes, we may conceive that certain bodies exist which we do not see, as much destitute of colour as others are free from smell and void of sound, and that an intelligent mind can form a notion of these colourless bodies no less than of others which are destitute of other qualities and distinctions. But that you may not per chance imagine that primary atoms remain void of colour only, they are also, you may understand, altogether destitute of heat and cold, and are understood to be barren of sound and dry of all moisture, nor do they send out any odour of their own from their substance. Thus, when you proceed to compound a sweet ointment of Amoracus and Mer, and the flower of Nard, which breathes nectar to the nostrils, it is, in the first place, proper to seek as far as is convenient, and as far as you may be able to find, the substance of inodorous olive oil which emits no scent to the nostrils, that it may, as little as possible, by the infection of any strong smell of its own, corrupt the odours mixed and digested in its body as a vehicle for them. Finally, therefore, it must be granted that the primary atoms of things communicate no odour or sound of their own to the things to be produced from them, since they can emit from themselves none of these qualities. Nor, in like manner, do they emit any savour at all, or cold, or heat. Other qualities, moreover, which are such that they are themselves, and in the bodies with which they are connected, perishable, as pliancy from softness, brittleness from decay, hollowness from timurity of substance, must all of necessity be separated from primary elements if we wish to lay an everlasting foundation for things on which their entire security may rest, that the whole universe may not be resolved into nothing. And now let me observe that those creatures, whatsoever they are that we perceive to have sense, you must necessarily acknowledge to consist wholly of senseless atoms. Nor do manifest appearances which are readily observed refute this position, or in the least oppose it, but rather themselves lead us by the hand as it were, and can tell us to believe as animals, though possessed of sense, are generated, as I say, from atoms without sense. For you may observe living worms proceed from foul dung when the earth, moistened with immoderate showers, has contracted a kind of putrescence, and you may see all other things besides change themselves similarly into other things. The rivers turn themselves into leaves of trees, and the rich pastures into cattle. The cattle change their substance into that of our bodies, and from our bodies the strength of wild beasts and the frames of birds are often augmented. Nature, therefore, changes all kinds of food into living bodies, and hence produces all senses of animals in a method not very far different from that by which she resolves dry wood into flames and turns all combustible bodies into fire. Do you now understand, therefore, that it is of great importance in what order the primordial elements of things are severally placed, and with what other elements being mingled they give and receive impulses? Besides, what is it that acts upon your mind, what moves you, and induces you to express a different opinion, preventing you from believing that what is possessed of sense is produced from atoms without sense? It is evidently this, that stones and wood and earth, however mixed together, are nevertheless unable to produce vital sense. On these subjects, then, it will be proper for you to remember this principle, that I do not say that what has sense or that senses themselves are, of course, produced from all atoms in general, what so ever generate things, but that it is of great importance in the first place, of what size those atoms are which are to produce a being of sense, and with what shape they are distinguished, and in the next place, what they are in their movements, arrangements, and positions, of which particulars we, from our imperfect perceptions, see nothing take place in wood and clods, and yet these, when they are as it were rendered putrescent by rain, produce worms, and for this reason, because the atoms of matter being driven from their former arrangements by some new impulse, are combined in such a manner as makes it indispensable for animals to be produced. Besides, when philosophers determine that a being which has sense can be produced only from atoms endowed with sense, they, forthwith, accustomed to adopt opinions from others, make those atoms soft, for all sense is connected with viscera, nerves, veins, and whatever soft substances we see exist and grow in a mortal body. But let it be supposed, for a moment, that these atoms of which animals consist may, though sensible and soft, remain eternal. They must then, however, either have sense as parts of animals, or be thought similar to whole animals. But it cannot be that as part they have sense of themselves, for every part and member, if separated from the body, breaks off connection with the other senses of the other members. Nor can the hand, when disheveled from us, nor any part of the body whatsoever, retain alone the sense of the whole body. It remains, therefore, that they must resemble whole animals, so that they may be animated with vital sense throughout. But how, then, will it be possible for them to be called the elements of things, and avoid the paths to death, when they are of an animal nature, and existing themselves in perishable animals, are one and the same with them? Yet if we allow that primordial atoms, though imperishable, may nevertheless be endowed with sense, they will necessarily, in that case, produce nothing but a crowd and multitude of animals. Just as men, cattle, and wild beasts would be unable to produce by combination, severally among themselves, anything but men, cattle, and wild beasts. How, then, could things inanimate, as trees and nettles, be produced? It is only on this supposition, accordingly, fizz that they can generate nothing but sentient beings, that we should be obliged, as far as we see, to allow primordial atoms to be sentient. But if, perhaps, you say that the primordial atoms being, as you think, sentient lay aside, in combination, their own proper sense, and take another, what need was there, in that case, that that should be assigned to them, which is afterwards taken away. And besides, to recur to an illustration to which we had recourse before, in as much as we see eggs of animals changed into birds, and worms spring forth when a kind of putrescence from immoderate rains has affected the ground, we know that animals having senses may be produced from objects without senses. But if anyone, perchance, shall say that sentient beings may certainly arise from senseless atoms, but that this must be affected by some change which takes place in those atoms, as from some new birth, before the sentient being which they constitute is brought forth into existence, it will be sufficient to explain and prove to him that no birth ever takes place, unless from some combination previously formed, and that no change is effective without a combination of primordial atoms. For no senses of any animal body can exist before the substance itself of the animal is formed, and this is evident in as much as senseless matter is kept dispersed throughout the air, rivers, earth, and things produced from the earth. Nor, though it may have united, have it so united as to engender in itself those concordiant vital notions, but which the all-observing senses of animals being generated direct and preserve every living creature. Besides, a blow inflicted, if heavier than nature can endure, strikes down any animal at once, and has the effect of confounding all sense of the body and of the mind. For the positions and connections of the atoms are dissolved, and the vital motions are utterly impeded, until at last the matter of the body suffering concussion in every member unlooses from the body the vital ties of the soul, and drives it forth, scattered abroad through every outlet. For what more can we suppose that an inflicted blow can do, than shake to pieces and dissolve the several elements that were previously united? It also happens that when a blow is inflicted with less violence the remains of vital motion often prevail. Prevail, I say, over the effects of it, and calm the violent disorders occasioned by the stroke, and recall everything again into its proper channel, and thus dispel, as it were, the movement of death, when asserting its power in the body, and revive the senses when almost lost and overcome. For under what influence, if not under this revival of the sentient's motions, can bodies return to life, the mind being re-established, even from the very threshold of dissolution, rather than depart and pass away to the born, to which they had almost accomplished their course? Furthermore, since pain happens when the principles of matter in any living body, disturbed by any force throughout the viscera or the looms, are agitated in their situations within, and driven from their proper places, and since an agreeable pleasure succeeds when they return into their places, it is but right to infer that primordial atoms can be affected with no pain, and enjoy no pleasure of themselves, for they, being primary bodies, do not consist of those combinations of primary bodies, the motions of which suffer pain, or receive enjoyment of gentle pleasure from alteration. Primordial atoms, therefore, must not be considered as endowed with any sense whatever. Besides, if, in order that animals may severally have sense, sense is also to be attributed to their primary elements, then, forsooth, the elements of which the human race is peculiarly constituted, both laugh, shaking their sides with tremulous cationation, and sprinkle their faces and cheeks with distilling tears. They, moreover, can tell much of the mixture of bodies, and inquire, besides, what are their own elements. For, as they resemble entire men, compounded of elements, they themselves must also be compounded of other elements, and these others must be composed of others again, so that, reckoning thus, you would never make a stop, but go on to infinity. For I shall pursue the argument, and demand that whatever you shall admit to speak, and laugh, and understand, must consist of other elements exercising the same powers. But if we plainly see such reasoning to be absurd and insane, and if a being can laugh, that is compounded of elements which do not laugh, and can understand, and render a reason in intelligible words, though he be not compounded of intelligent and eloquent seminal principles, why may not all those creatures which we observe to be sentient around us, be compounded of seminal atoms, wholly destitute of sense? Finally, we are all sprung from celestial seed, the father of all is the same ether from which, when the bountiful earth has received the liquid drops of moisture, she, being impregnated, produces the rich crops and the joyous groves, and the race of men, produces all the tribes of beasts, since she supplies them food, by means of which they all support their bodies, and lend a pleasant life and propagate offspring, on which account she has justly obtained the name of mother. That also, which first arose from the earth, returns back into the earth, and that which was sent down from the regions of the sky, the regions of the sky again receive when carried back to them. Nor does death so put an end to things as to destroy the atoms of matter, but only disunites their combinations, and produces new unions of particles, and is the cause that all things so change their forms, and vary their colours, and receive perception, and in a moment of time yield it up again, so that you may understand it to be of the greatest importance with what elements, and in what position and connection, the same primordial atoms of things are combined, and what impulses they mutually give and receive, nor suppose that the primary particles of things cannot remain eternal, because we see them fluctuate upon the surface of things, and sometimes apparently born, and suddenly perish. As even in these very verses of mine, it is of great consequence with what letters, and in what order other letters are severally placed, for the same letters, variously selected and combined, signify heaven, sea, earth, rivers, sun, the same signify corn, groves, animals. If the words are not all, yet by far the greater part are alike, at least so far as to have some letter or letters in common, but the subjects which they express are distinguished by the different arrangements of the letters to form the words. So likewise even in things themselves, when the intervals, passages, connections, weights, impulses, collisions, movements, order, position, and configurations of the atoms of matter are interchanged, the things which are formed from them must also be changed. Give your attention now, closely, to the conclusions of just reasoning from what we have previously stated, for a new doctrine presses earnestly to approach your ear, and a new scene of things to display itself. But neither is anything so easy or credible as that it may not seem rather difficult of belief at first, nor likewise is there anything so great or anything so admirable at first, at which all men alike do not by degrees less and less wonder. In the first place, consider the bright and pure colour of the sky, and that which the stars, wandering in all directions, contain in themselves and the resplendency from brilliancy of light of the moon and the sun, all which objects, if they were now first apparent to mortal eyes, if they were, I say, now first presented to them unexpectedly and suddenly, what could be mentioned, which would be more wonderful than these phenomena, or which the nations of the world could less presume beforehand to believe would exist? Nothing, as I can see, so wonderful to men would this scene of things have been, for the sake of which no man, you may observe, now deans to look up to the bright regions of the sky, everyone being listless from Seiji of viewing it. Wherefore, forbear, though being alarmed at mere novelty, to reject any argument or opinion from your mind, but rather weigh it with severe judgement, and, if it seemed to you to be just, yield your assent to it, or, if it be false, gird up your loins to oppose it, for since the sun of space, abroad beyond these walls of our world is, as I have proved, infinite, my mind proceeds to make inquiry what there exists farther onwards, in those parts into which the mind perpetually longs to look, and into which the free effort of thought itself earnestly desires to penetrate. The first point which I advance is, that in every direction around us, and on all sides, above and below, there is no limit through the whole of space, as I myself have demonstrated, and as truth itself spontaneously proclaims, and the nature of the profound itself makes clear as light. But by no means can it be thought probable when infinite space lies open in every quarter, and when seminal atoms of incomputable number and unfathomable sum, driven about by everlasting motion, fly through the void in infinite ways, that this one globe of the earth, and this one heaven, have been alone produced, and that those innumerable particles of matter do nothing beyond our sphere, especially when this world was made by merely natural causes, and the atoms of things jostling about of their own accord in infinite modes, often brought together confusedly, ineffectually, and to no purpose, at length successfully coalesced. At least such of them as, thrown together suddenly, became in succession the beginnings of great things, of the earth, the sea, the heaven, and the race of animals, for which reason it is irresistibly incumbent on you to admit that there are other combinations of matter in other places, such as is this world which the ether holds in its vast embrace. Further, when abundance of matter is ready, and space is at hand, and when no object or cause hinders or delays, things must necessarily be generated and brought into being. And now, if there is such a vast multitude of seminal atoms as the whole age of all living creatures would not suffice to number, and if there remains the same force and nature that can throw together the atoms of things into every part in the same manner as they have been thrown together into this, you must necessarily suppose that there are other orbs of earth in other regions of space, and various races of men, and generations of beasts. To this is to be added, that in the whole of our world there is no one thing which is produced single, and grows up alone and by itself, but that every thing is of some class, and that there are many individuals in the same kind. Thus, among animals especially, you will, by your own observation, see this to be the case as to the brood of wild beasts that range over the mountains. You will find the same as to the race of men, male and female, the same moreover as to the mute swarms of fishes, and all kinds of birds. Wherefore it is to be admitted that, in like manner, the heaven and the earth, and the sun, the moon, the sea, and other things which exist are not single, but rather of infinite number, since these follow the same general law as other things that arise and decay, the limit of existence, deeply and unalterably fixed, awaits these parts of nature as well as others, and they consist as much of a natural body, generated but to die, as the whole race of animals which are banned in their several kinds in this state of things. Which points if, being well understood, you keep in mind and reason from them, the system of nature immediately appears, as a free agent, released from tyrant masters to do everything itself of itself, spontaneously, without the help of the gods. Four, oh ye sacred bosoms of the deities, that pass in tranquil peace, a calm and most serene existence. Who is able to rule the world of this immense universe? Who can hold in his hand, with power to guide them, the strong reins of this vast combination of things? What God can, at the same time, turn round all the heavens and warm all the earth with ethereal fires? Or what God can be, at the same moment, present in all places, to produce darkness with clouds, and shake the calm regions of heaven with thunder, and then to hurl bolts and overturn, as often happens, his own temples, all afterwards, retiring to the desert and uninhabited parts of the earth, to rage there, exercising that weapon with which he often misses the guilty, and kills the innocent and undeserving. And after the time when the world was produced, and the natal day of the sea, and the rise of the earth and the sun, atoms were added from without, seeds which the vast whole, by agitation, contribution, were conjoined, whence the sea and the earth had the means of increase, and whence the mansion of the sky amplified its vastness, and raised its lofty vaults far above the earth, and the air rose higher and higher. For to everybody in nature, from all regions of space, are contributed by the agitation of particles, its own proper atoms, and they be take themselves severally to their own kinds of matter. The particles of moisture pass to water, the earth is increased with atoms of earth, and the fiery principles produce fire and the aerial air, until, as such operations proceeded, nature, the perfectress and parent of the world, brought all things to the utmost limit of growth, as happens when that which is received into the vital passages, is no more in quantity than that which flows away and passes off. In these circumstances, the age and growth of all things must be at a stand, here, nature, by her own influence, restrains further increase. For whatsoever creatures you see enlarge themselves to a full and lively bog, and climb by degrees the steps to a mature age, receive into themselves more atoms than they emit, whilst the nourishment is readily distributed through the veins, and whilst their bodies are not so widely dilated as to expel many, that is, a disproportionate number of particles, and to cause the waste to be greater than the food on which their life sustains life. For certainly we must admit that many atoms flow off and pass away from bodies, but till they have reached the highest point of growth, more or to accrue to them. From that point age reduces by degrees their mature force and strength, and melts away and sinks down to its decline, since the larger any creature is, at the time when its increase is stopped, and the greater is its extent of surface, the more atoms it disperses and emits from itself in all directions around, nor is the whole of its food readily distributed through its veins, nor is their sufficient nourishment generated from the food in proportion to the effluvia which the body discharges, whence as much support as is necessary can arise and be supplied to it, and whence nature can recruit what is requisite. Bodies therefore naturally decay as they are wasted by their substance passing off, and as all things yield to external attacks, for food at last fails to support advance age, and hostile atoms striking externally cease not to exhaust every creature and subdue it with assaults. So likewise the walls of the great world being assailed around shall suffer decay and fall into mouldering ruins, for if things are kept in vigor it is nourishment that must recruit them all by renewal, and it is nourishment that must support, nourishment that must sustain all. But it is in vain to expect that this frame of the world will last forever, for neither do its veins, so to speak, submit to receive what is sufficient for its maintenance, nor does nature minister as much element as is needed. And thus even now the age of the world is debilitated, and the earth which produced all races of creatures and gave forth at a birth vast forms of wild animals, now being exhausted scarcely rears a small and degenerate offspring. The earth, I say, which produced all creatures, for it was not, as I conceive, a golden chain from above that let down the tribes of mortals from heaven into the fields, nor did the sea or the waves that beat the rocks produce them, but the same earth which now nourishes them from her own substance generated them at first. Moreover, the earth herself of her own accord first produced for mortals rich crops and joyous vineyards. She herself supplied sweet herbs over the abundant pastures, which now scarcely reach a full growth, though assisted and augmented by our toil. We both wear out our oxen and exhaust the strength of our husbandmen, being scarcely supplied with fruits from our slowly yielding fields, to such a degree to the productions of the earth decline and increase only with human labour. And in these days the sturdy plaman, shaking his head, sighs that his great toil has too often fallen out in vain, and, when he compares the present times to the times past, frequently praises the good fortune of his forefather. The planter of the degenerate vine, also sad and fatigued, accuses the progress of time and wear his heaven with prayers for better seasons, and often remarks had the ancient race of men full of piety spent their lives happily within narrow limits, when the portion of land cultivated formally by each individual was much less than at present, nor does his untaught mind understand that all things, exhausted by a long course of time, gradually waste away and pass to their grave. End of Section 6. Not able to raise so effulgent a light, shedding a luster on the blessings of life, the, oh, glory of the Greek nation, I follow, and now place the steps of my feet formed upon thy impressed traces, yet not because I am so eager to rival, as because, from the love which I feel for thee, I desire to imitate thee. For why should the swallow content with swans, or what, that is all similar, can kits with trembling limbs and the strong vigor of the horse perform in the race? Thou, O Father, art the discoverer of truth, thou supplies to us paternal precepts, and from thy writings, O illustrious teacher, as bees gather from all blossoms in the flowery glades, so we feed upon thy golden words. Golden, I say, and most worthy of perpetual existence. For, as soon as thy system of philosophy began to proclaim aloud the nature of things, as it arose in thy divine intellect, the terrors of the mind disperse, the walls of the world open, I see things conducted throughout the mighty void of space, the calm divinity of the gods appears, and their tranquil boats, which neither winds disturb nor clouds sprinkle with showers, nor snow falling white congealed with sharp frost inconveniences. But the pure air is always cloudless, and smiles with widely effulgent light. To them, moreover, nature supplies all things, nor does any cause at any time diminish the tranquility of their minds. But the regions of Acheron, on the other hand, are nowhere apparent, nor does the dark earth hinder but that all things, whatever are done beneath our feet throughout the void, may be seen and contemplated. Under the influence of these wonders, disclosed there, a certain divine pleasure and dread penetrates me, amazed that nature, thus manifestly displayed by thy power, has been in all parts revealed to us. And since I've shown of what kind the primordial atoms of all things are, and how, differing in their various forms, and actuated by motion from all eternity, they fly through the void of space of their own accord, and since I've also demonstrated by what means all individual things may be produced from them, the nature of the mind and of the soul now seems, next to these subjects, proper to be illustrated in my verses, and that must be driven utterly from our minds that fear of Acheron, which disturbs human life from its very foundation, suffusing all things with the blackness of death, or allows any pleasure to be pure and uncontaminated, for as to what men often say that diseases and the life of infamy are more to be feared than tartars, the successor of death, and that they know the consistence of the soul to be of the nature of blood or even of breath, if their inclination happened to lead them to such an opinion, and have no need at all of our reasoning and instruction, you may perceive, for the reasons that follow, that all these observations are thrown out more for the sake of praise and vain glory, than because the belief itself is settled in their minds, for the very same boasters exiled from their country, and driven far from the sight of man, disgraced with foul guilt and afflicted with all calamities, yet still continue to live, and with it so ever, notwithstanding the unhappy man have come, they offer sacrifices to the dead, as if their souls were still in existence, and emulate black cattle, and send oblations to the de manes, and in their calamitous circumstances apply their minds much more zealously to religion than before, for which reason it is more satisfactory to contemplate a person in order to judge of his character in doubtful dangers, and to learn what he is in adverse circumstances, since words of truth are then at least elicited from the bottom of the heart, and the mask is taken away while the reality of the man remains. Furthermore, avarice and the blind desire of honors, which drive man transgress the bounds of right, and sometimes as the accomplices and ministers of crimes to strive night and day with excessive labour to rise to the height of power, these passions, I say, which are the wounds and plagues of life, are nourished for the most part by the dread of death, for in general infamous contempt and sharp poverty seem removed from a pleasing and secure state of life, and seem to dwell, as it were, before the very gates of destruction, from which cause, while man not submitting to die to avoid those evils but restrained by a false terror of death and its consequences, wish that they may escape far and remove themselves to a distance from disgrace and want, they increase their property with civil bloodshed and greedily double their riches, heaping slaughter on slaughter, they cruelly rejoice at the sad end of a brother and hate and dread the tables of their relations. From the same terror in like manner envy often wastes man away, they grieve that he who walks before them in shining honour should be powerful, should be looked upon with respect, they complain that they themselves are tossed about in obscurity and dishonour, some pined to death for the sake of statues and a name, and often to such a degree from the fear of death does the hatred of life and of seeing the light affect men that with a despairing mind they commit self-murder, forgetting that this fear is the source of all cares, that this violates modesty, that this bursts the bonds of friendship. This, in fine, prompts mortals to overthrow piety and virtue, for men have often betrayed their country and their dear parents while seeking to avoid the regions of Akron, since as children tremble and fear everything in thick darkness, so we, in the light, fear sometimes things which are not more to be feared than those which children dread and imagine about to happen in the dark. This terror of the mind, therefore, is not the rays of the sun or the bright arrows of day that must dispel, but the contemplation of nature and the exercise of reason. First, then, I say that the mind which we often call the intellect in which is placed the conduct and government of life is not less an integral part of man himself than the hand and foot and eyes are portions of the whole animal. Although, indeed, a great number of philosophers have thought that the sense of the mind is not placed in any certain part, but is a kind of vital habit, a resulting power of the body called by the Greeks a harmony which causes us to live in doubt with a mental sense, though the mind is situated in no particular part of us. As frequently, when good health is said to be a sensation of the body and yet this health is itself no portion of the person that enjoys health, so those philosophers place the sense of the mind in no particular part of the person, in which hypothesis they seem to wander far astray. For frequently the body which is openly seen is diseased and dejected while we nevertheless feel pleasure in the other part which is hit within us. And on the other hand again, it often happens that the reverse is the case when he who is wretched in mind is well in his whole body, just in the same way as if when the foot of a sick man is pained his head in the meantime happened to be in no pain at all. Besides, when the limbs are resigned to gentle sleep and the body heavy with slumber lies stretched without sense there is yet something else within us which at that very time is agitated in diverse ways and admits into itself all the affections of joy and all the empty solicitudes of the heart. And now also that you may be further convinced that the soul is actually one among our members and is not one to hold or occupy the body as a harmony. It happens in the first place you may observe that even when much of the body is taken away the life nevertheless often remains in the members that are left and again the same life when a few atoms of the heat of the body have dispersed and air has been sent forth through the mouth immediately quits the veins and relinquishes possession of the bones so that you may conclude from hence that all particles of the body have not equal parts and powers but that those which are the constituent atoms of air and quickening heat exercise more influence than others that life may dwell and be retained in the members. The vital heat therefore and air which deserved our limbs when dying are existent in the body itself and form a part of it. For which reason, since the nature of the mind and the soul is thus found to exist as a part of man give back to these philosophers their name of harmony whether brought down by musicians from lofty Helicon or whether they themselves took it from any other quarter and transferred it to that object which then wanted a distinctive appellation whatsoever is the case let them have it to themselves listen thou to the rest of my arguments I now affirm that the mind and soul are held united with one another and form of themselves one nature or substance but that that which is as it were the head and which rules in the whole body is the reason the thinking or intellectual part which we call mind and understanding and this remains seated in the middle portion of the breast for here dread and terror throb around these parts joys soothe here therefore is the understanding and mind the other part of the soul or vital power distributed through the whole body obeys and is moved according to the will and impulse of the mind and this rational or intellectual part thinks of itself alone and rejoices for itself at times when nothing of the kind moves either the rest of the soul or the body and as when the head or the eye when pain affects it is troubled in us and as part of us but we are not afflicted throughout the whole body so the mind is sometimes grieved itself alone and is sometimes excited with joy when the other part of the soul diffused through the limbs and joints is stimulated by no new sensations but when the mind is more than ordinarily shaken by violent terror we see the whole soul throughout the several members sympathize with it and perspirations and paleness and consequence arise over the whole body and the tongue rendered powerless and the voice die away while we find the eyes darkened the ears ringing and the limbs sinking underneath furthermore we often see men feigned altogether from terror of mind so that anyone may easily understand from this that with the mind is united the soul which when it has been acted upon by the power of the mind then influences and affects the body this same cause of reasoning teaches us that the nature or substance of the mind and soul is corporeal for when this nature or substance is seen to impel the limbs to arouse the body from sleep and to change the countenance and to guide and turn about the whole man of which affects we see that none can be produced without touch and that touch moreover cannot take place without body must we not admit that the mind and soul are of a corporeal nature besides you see that the mind suffers with the body and sympathizes for us with the body thus if the violent force of a dart driven into the body the bones and nerves being divided does not hurt the life itself yet there flows a languor and a kind of agreeable inclination to sink to the ground and when we are on the ground a perturbation and giddiness which is produced in the mind and sometimes as it were an irresolute desire to rise it therefore necessarily follows that the nature of the mind is corporeal since it is made to suffer by corporeal weapons and violence I shall now proceed to give you a demonstration in plain words of what substance this mind is and of what it consists in the first place I say that it is extremely subtle and is formed of very minute atoms and you may if you please give me your attention in order that you may understand clearly that this is so from the following arguments nothing is seen to be done in so swift a way as if the mind proposes it to be done and itself undertakes it the mind therefore impels itself more speedily than anything among all those of which the nature is manifestly seen before our eyes but that which is so exceedingly active must consist of atoms exquisitely round and exquisitely minute that they may be moved when acted on by a slight impulse for water is moved and flows with so trifling a force as we see act upon it in as much as it is composed of valuable and small particles but the substance of honey on the other hand is more dense and is fluid sluggish and its movement more tardy for its whole mass of material particles clings more closely together because as is evident it consists of atoms neither so smooth nor so small and round for a gentle and light breeze can make a tall heap of poppy seed waste away from the top to the bottom before your eyes but on the contrary can have no such effect upon a heap of stones and darts particles therefore according as they are most diminutive and most smooth so the greatest facility of motion but on the other hand whatever particles are found of a greater weight and rougher surface are so much the more fixed and difficult to move since therefore the nature of the mind has been found pre-eminently active it must of necessity consist of particles exceedingly diminutive and smooth and round which point being thus known to you an excellent friend will be found useful and be of advantage in many of your future enquiries this fact also indicates the nature of the soul and shows of how subtle a texture it consists and in how small a space it would contain itself if it could be condensed because when the tranquil repose of death has taken possession of a man and the substance of the mind and the soul has departed you can there perceive nothing detracted as to appearance nothing as to weight from the whole body attend this potent truth doubt well perceived for what its point so swiftly can achieve as mind in boundless nature what can vie with its unlimited velocity death leaves all things entire except vital sense and quickening heat it must therefore necessarily be the case that the whole soul consists of extremely small seminal atoms connected and diffused throughout the veins the viscera and the nerves in as much as when the whole of it has departed from the whole of the body the extreme outline of the members still shows itself unaltered nor as an atom of weight withdrawn just as is the case when the aroma of wine has flown off or when the sweet odor of ointment has passed away into the air or when the flavour has departed from any savoury substance for still substance itself does not on that account appear diminished to the eye nor does anything seem to have been deducted from the weight evidently because many and minute atoms composed of flavour and odor throughout the whole constitution of bodies End of Section 7 Section 8 of On the Nature of Things this is a LibriVox recording all LibriVox recordings are in the public domain for more information or to volunteer please visit LibriVox.org recording by Anna Simon On the Nature of Things by Lucretius translated by John Selby Watson Section 8, Book 3, Part 2 Wherefore again and again I say you may feel assured that the nature or substance of the mind and soul is produced from exquisitely small seminal atoms since when it escapes from the body it carries away no weight with it nor yet is this nature or substance to be regarded by us as simple and uncompounded for a certain subtle aura mixed with heat leaves dying persons the heat moreover carries air with it nor is there any heat with which air is not also mixed since as its substance is rare many atoms of air must necessarily be born with it the substance of the mind is now therefore found to be triple nor yet are all these constituent parts aura, heat and air sufficient to produce mental sense or power since the mind admits none of these to be able to generate sensible motions such as revolve any thoughts in the mind a certain fourth nature or substance must therefore necessarily be added to these this is wholly without a name it is a substance however than which nothing exists more active or more subtle nor is anything more essentially composed of small and smooth elementary particles and it is this substance which first distributes sensible motions through the members for being formed of small atoms it is itself first excited then the heat and the secret power of the aura receive motion from it next the air and afterwards all parts are quickened the blood is agitated and all the viscera partake in the sensation and whether it be pleasure or whether it be the contrary feeling it is communicated to the bones and marrow last of all nor can pain easily penetrate or any violent evil spread so far as this without all parts being perturbed so that in such a case room is wanting for life and the particles of the soul fly off through all the passages of the body but on the surface of the body as it were a limit is generally put to sensible motions and from this cause we have the power to retain life within us and now though I would feign give a full exposition in what manner these principles are mixed one with another and how being arranged they possess vigor the poverty of my native tongue restrains me against my will but notwithstanding as far as I shall be able to treat of these subjects summarily I will touch upon them for the primordial atoms by the motion of the elements among themselves so actively intermingle in the substance of the soul that no one can be separated from the rest nor can their power become divided by any interval but being many they are as it were the power of a single body as in the herd of animals which however you would inspect there is a certain odor and heat and taste and still from all these is composed one mass and combination of body so heat and air and the secret power of aura and that other active force which communicates the beginning of motion from itself to the other three when the sensible movement first arises through the viscera being mixed produce one nature or substance for this fourth principle lies entirely hid and remains in secret within nor is anything more deeply sealed within our body and it is itself moreover the soul of the whole soul as the force of the mind and the power of the soul mixed up with our limbs and entire body remains latent because it is composed of small and few atoms so this nameless force compounded of small particles lies concealed and is besides as it were the very soul of the whole soul and rules throughout the whole body in like manner it must be the case that the aura and air and heat mixed throughout the limbs possess their vigor one with another and that one may possibly subside at times or become prominent more than the rest but so that they may still seem to be one principle compounded of them all and that the heat and aura by themselves or the power of air by itself may not being separated from the whole destroy and dissipate the sense there is also that heat in the mind which assumes an anger when it burns and ardour gleams vividly from the eyes there is also much cold aura the attendant of fear with which it produces shivering throughout the various members and agitates the limbs there is also that state of the air when at rest which happens in concurrence with a tranquil breast and serene countenance but in those animals whose fears hearts and angry feelings easily burn in wrath there is more heat which class especially is the violent fury of lions which raging often burst as it were their hearts with roaring nor can contain within their breasts their torrents of ire but the cold temperament of deer has more of the aura in it and sooner excites a chill influence through the viscera which cause a tremulous motion to arise in the limbs but the nature of the ox subsists more on calm air nor does the smoky torch of wrath apply to him ever irritate him to fury like that of the lion suffusing him with a shade of thick darkness nor is he torpid transfixed with the cold darts of aura but is situate between the two natures those of deer and fiercer lions thus is the race of men each has a certain temperament and though instruction may in a menna render some individuals polished it still leaves the first traces of the nature of every mind nor is it to be thought that vices can be so plucked out by the root but that one man will run more readily than another into violent anger a second will be effected somewhat sooner than another by fear while a third will regard certain things more indulgently than is right and in many other respects the various natures and yielding manners of men must necessarily differ of which differences I cannot now explain the secret causes nor find so many names for figures as there are diversities of shape in the atoms from which this variety in things arises but with reference to these subjects I think myself competent to affirm this that so small are the traces left of the natural principles which reason cannot remove by her dictates that nothing hinders men from leading a life worthy of the gods this mental nature therefore or compound intellectual substance is contained in every body and is itself the guardian of the body and the cause of its safety for the two the body and soul cohere as it were by common roots with one another nor seem capable of being torn asunder without destruction to both for as it is impossible to separate the perfume from balls of frankincense without the nature of it at the same time being destroyed so it is impossible to extract the nature or substance of the mind and soul from the whole body without all parts being dissolved with such closely interwoven elements from their first origin are they endowed with common life nor does the power of the body or mind seem capable of having perception apart each for itself without the vigor of the other but the sentient power lighted up through our viscera is conjointly produced by their common motions one with the other besides the body is never produced nor ever grows by itself nor is it observed to retain its existence after death or the departure of the soul from it for it is not as when the liquid substance of water frequently throws off heat which has been communicated to it nor is on that account dispersed itself not so I say can the limbs when deserted by the soul bear the separation of the soul from them but thus divided from it altogether perish and rot for the mutual interconnections of the soul in the corporeal frame from the very beginning of life even in the body and secret womb of the mother so acquire the vital movements together that the separation cannot take place without destruction and damage to each so that you may see that if preservation are united the nature and substance of them must also be united for what remains to be considered if anyone denies that the body has sense and believes that the soul, mixed with the entire body takes wholly upon itself that motion which we call sense he contends against manifest and certain facts for who will ever explain what it is for the body to have sense if it be not that which experience itself has manifestly shown and taught us that the soul being set free from the body the body is void of sense in all parts for it loses that which was not peculiar to itself in any period of its life and it besides loses many things as the soul is being expelled by age to affirm moreover that the eyes themselves can see no object but that the mind merely looks through them and through open doors is difficult when the sense of these eyes leads to a contrary opinion the sense of the eyes draws the mind and attracts it from within to the sights or pupils themselves while let it especially be considered we are often unable to look at bright objects because our eyes are prevented by their effulgence which is not the case with regard to mere doors for mere open doors where we look through besides if our eyes are only instead of doors the mind when the eyes are taken out and the doorposts themselves so to speak removed seems bound to see even more clearly than before on these points you can by no means assume as true that which the divine opinion of the philosopher-democrates lays down namely that the several atoms of the body and mind applied and corresponding each to each vary and connect the members for not only are the atoms of the soul much more diminutive than those of which our body and viscera consist but are also inferior in number and are distributed thinly with spaces between them throughout the limbs so that you may safely warrant that the primary particles of the soul occupy and are distributed at those intervals only at which corporeal atoms cast upon us and striking against us may if of sufficient gravity be able to excite sensible motions through the body the concussions being communicated from the surface to the internal parts for neither at times do we perceive the adhesion of dust on the body nor feel powdered chalk shaken over the limbs settle on them nor do we feel amissed at night nor the subtle threats of the spider's web meeting us when we are entangled in them as we go along nor do we notice the old vesture of the same spider fall upon our head nor feathers or birds or the flying down of thistles which from extreme lightness generally fall with difficulty and strike but gently the object on which they fall nor do we observe the progress of every creeping animal nor every first step of the feet which gnats and other such insects place upon our body so many particles in us must be moved for the primordial atoms of the soul mixed throughout the limbs in our bodies can feel the sensation and impelling one another at how great intervals can in succession strike together, meet and rebound and the mind is more efficient in holding the bars of life and more prevalent to preserve vitality than the power of the soul for without the understanding and mind no part of the soul can have its residence in the body even for a small portion of time but when the mind takes its departure the soul readily follows as its companion and leaves the chilled limbs in the cold of death but he to whom understanding and mind have remained continues in life although he be mutilated with his limbs even cut off on all sides the trunk though portions of the soul be taken away around it and it be separated from the limbs still lives and inhales the vital air deprived if not altogether yet in a great measure of the soul it still delays and continues in life so when the eye is lacerated round about if the pupil has remained uninjured the vivid faculty of seeing survives but this is only provided you do not injure the entire ball of the eye but merely cut round the pupil and leave that alone whole for such injury cannot be committed without destruction of the eyes but if the very smallest part of the middle of the ball is perforated though the bright all be otherwise unharmed the sight is at once lost and darkness follows with such a connection the soul and the mind are constantly united and now attend that thou mayst understand that living creatures have minds and subtle souls born and perishable I will proceed to arrange verses worthy of thy life and virtues verses collected during a long time and prepared with sweet labour and thou my friend take care to include both of them under one name whichever of the two I may use and for example when I proceed to speak of the soul teaching that it is mortal suppose that I also speak of the mind inasmuch as there are one by mutual combination and their substance is united in the first place since I've shown soul being subtle consists of minute particles and is composed of much smaller atoms than the clear fluid of water or mist or smoke for it far surpasses those bodies in susceptibility of motion and is more readily impelled when acted upon from a slight cause inasmuch as both the mind and soul are moved by the mere images of smoke and mist as when lulled in sleep we see high altars exhale with vapour and carry up smoke since doubtless these fantasms are produced in us now therefore I say since when vessels are broken to pieces you see water flow about and any other liquid run away and since also mist and smoke disperse into the air you must conclude that the soul is likewise scattered abroad and is dissipated much sooner than mist and smoke and more easily resolved into its original elements when it has once been withdrawn from the body of a man and has taken its departure for how can you believe that this soul can be held together by any combination of air when the body itself which is as it were its vessel cannot contain it if it be convulsed by any violence or rendered thin and weak by blood being taken from the veins how can that air which is more rare than our body confine it besides we observe that the mind is produced together with the body and grows up along with it and waxes old at the same time with it for as children wonder and totter about with a weak and tender body so the subtle sense of the mind follows and corresponds to the weakness of their frame then when their age has grown up in robust vigour their understanding is also greater the strength of mind more enlarged afterwards when the body is shaken by the prevailing power of the time and the strength being depressed the limbs have sunk into infirmity the understanding then holds the tongue and the mind lose their sense all parts fail and fade away at once it is therefore natural that the whole substance of the soul should be dissolved as smoke into the sublime air of heaven since we see that it is produced together with the body and grows up together with it and both as I've shown overcome by age decay and concert to this is added that as we observe the body itself to be subject to violent diseases and severe pain so we see the mind to be susceptible of sharp cares and grief and fear for which cause it is reasonable that it should also be a partaker of death moreover the mind in diseases of the body often wanders distracted for it loses its faculties and at us senseless words and sometimes by a heavy lethargy is borne down into a deep and internal sleep the eyes and the nodding head sinking hence it neither hears the voice nor can distinguish the countenances of those who stand around recalling it to life but viewing their faces and cheeks with tears therefore you must necessarily admit that the mind is also dissolved since the contagion of disease penetrates into it for pain and disease are each the fabricator of death a truth which we have been taught by the destruction of many millions in past times further when the violent power of wine has penetrated the heart of men and its heat being distributed has spread into the veins and heaven is of the limbs follows the legs of the tottering person are impeded the tongue grows torpedoed the mind is as it were drowned the eyes swim noise hiccups and crawls arise and other things of this kind whatever are consequent on intoxication why do these effects happen unless because the vehement force of the wine has exerted its customary power to disturb the soul as it is diffused through the body itself but whatsoever things can be thus disturbed and obstructed in their operations show that if a cause somewhat stronger shall spread within them the consequence will be that they must perish deprived of all future existence moreover frequently overcome by the force of disease a person suddenly falls down before our eyes as if struck by the blow of a thunderbolt and foams at the mouth groans and trembles in its joints stretches its nerves to rigidity is distorted pens with irregular breathing and where is its limbs with tossing about evidently because the violence of the malady dispersed throughout the body and acting upon the soul perturbs it as the waves on the foaming salt ocean boil with the strong fury of the winds groans are then forced out because the limbs are seized with pain and especially because the particles of the voice are drawn forth and carried, collected in a body out of the mouth the way by which they have as it were been accustomed to paths and where the cause of the road is paved for them loss of understanding takes place because the united power of the mind and soul is disturbed and as I've shown is divided and run to thunder distracted by that same distemper afterwards when the cause of the disease has given way the humor of the disordered body has retired into its hiding place then as of staggering the person first rises and by degrees returns to all his senses and repossesses the right state of his soul when these substances therefore the mind and the soul are shaken with such powerful diseases in the body itself and suffer distracted in such miserable ways why do you conceive the same mind and soul can support an existence without a body in the open air and amid strong winds and since we see that the mind may be healed like a sick body and wrought upon by means of medicine this also signifies that the mind exists only as a mortal substance for whoever attempts and commences to change the mind or to alter any other nature or substance whatsoever it is requisite either that he add new parts or transpose the parts in a new order or take away at least some small portion from the whole but any substance which is immortal neither allows its parts to be transposed nor to be increased by addition nor permits an atom to pause away from them for whatever being changed goes beyond its own limits this change is fought with the death or termination of that which it was before the mind therefore whether it be diseased or whether it be wrought upon by medicine exhibits, as I have demonstrated mortal symptoms so far is the force of true reason seen to oppose false reasoning and to cut off escape from him who shrinks from its conclusions and to overthrow what is wrong by a double refutation furthermore, we often see a man decay by degrees and lose his vital power in one limb after another on the feet we observe the toes and nails first grow livid then the feet themselves and the legs mortify afterwards, throughout the other limbs we perceive the traces of cold death then's proceed step by step and since the substance of the soul is thus divided and does not continue always and at the same time entire and unimpaired it must be deemed mortal but if perchance you think that the soul can itself contract itself internally throughout the limbs and condense its parts into one place and thus withdraw a feeling from all the members successively yet in such a case that place in which so great a mass of soul is collected ought to seem in possession of greater feeling but since this place of such increased feeling is nowhere apparent the soul as we said before is evidently being separated into parts scattered abroad and therefore perishes moreover if we even consent to grant that which is false and to allow that the soul may be thus concentrated in the bodies of those who leave light and life by dying part after part you must still confess that the soul is mortal and therefore is it of any importance whether it perishes being scattered throughout the air or loses its sense when drawn together from being dispersed in its several parts when animation steals away from the whole man more and more on all sides and less and less of life is everywhere left and as the mind is one single part of a man and remains fixed in a certain place as the ears and eyes are and the other organs of sense whatsoever govern life and as the hand and the eye or nose when detached from us cannot separately of themselves have sensation or even existence for when cut off they are in a short time wasted with putrefaction so the mind cannot of itself exist without the body and the man himself which body seems to be as it were its vessel or whatsoever else you would imagine to be more closely united with it since it adheres to the body by connection further the animated powers of the body and mind are vigorous and enjoy life only when joined with one another for neither can the nature or substance of the mind without the body alone and of itself produce vital motions nor again can the body deprived of the soul continue its state of existence and use its faculties just for example as the eye itself torn from its roots can discern no object apart from the whole body so the mind or soul seems to have no power in itself evidently because when mingled throughout the veins and viscera throughout the nerves and bones they are held in close confinement by the whole body and their primary particles not being free cannot fly asunder to great distances consequently being thus confined they move with sensitive motions with which after death when cast forth beyond the body into the air of heaven they cannot move for this very reason that they are not held confined in a similar manner for surely the air forms body and soul if the soul shall be able to keep itself together in the air and to contain itself for exerting those motions which it before exercised amidst the nerves and in the body itself on which account I say again and again I must necessarily admit that when the whole enclosure of the body is dissolved and the vital breath cast forth the sentient existence of the mind and the soul is dissolved since there is common cause and like fate to both besides when the body cannot bear the dissociation of the soul without putrefying with offensive odor why do you doubt but that the essence of the soul rising from the death and innermost parts of the body has passed forth and has been diffused broad like smoke and that for this reason the body decaying with so great a disillusion has utterly fallen away because the foundations have been removed from their place and the spirits pass out through the limbs and through all the windings of the passages and ducts that are in the body so that you may understand from many considerations that the nature or substance of the soul being disparted has gone out through the members of the body and that it was disavowed within the body itself before gliding outwards it flowed forth into the air of heaven moreover whilst the soul dwells within the bounds of life it yet frequently when it has received a shock from some cause seems to pass away and presents the appearance that the mind is let loose from the whole body and the countenance then seems to become inanimate as at the last hour and all the relaxed members to fail the language frame such is the case when it is said that the mind has been damaged or the vital power has suffered syncope while all is trepidation and all are anxious to recover the last link of life for then all the mind and power of the soul are shaken and these it is evident sync with the body itself so that a cause of somewhat greater force may bring them to disillusion why then do you doubt but that at the hour of death the soul driven forth at length weak and helpless out of the body and being in the open air with its covering removed cannot only not endure throughout all time but cannot even maintain his existence for the smallest space whatsoever nor does anyone when dying appear to feel his soul go forth and tire from his whole body or come up first to his throat and to his jaws above it but he finds that part of it which is placed in any certain portion of the body fail and decay in that part as he is conscious of the other senses losing their power each in its own quarter but if our soul were immortal it would not so much complain that it suffers disillusion when dying but would rather rejoice to pass forth abroad and to leave its covering delights the casted skin or an old stag it's too long and less again why are the understanding and faculty of the mind never produced in the head or the feet or the hands but remained fixed in all men alike in their peculiar seats and definite quarters if it be not that certain spots are assigned to each part to be born in and where each whatever it be may preserve his existence when born if it be not that such is the case with respect to the whole of the various members so that there may nowhere arise an improper arrangement of the parts so invariably in the operations of nature does one thing follow another nor is fire one to be produced from rivers or called to be generated in fire besides if the nature of the soul is immortal and can have a sentient existence when separated from our body we must consider it as I suppose to be in doubt with the five senses nor in any other way can we present to ourselves the infernal souls as wandering on the banks of the acron accordingly painters and the past generations of writers have introduced in their compositions souls does in doubt with senses but neither can the eyes nor the nostrils nor the hand itself preserve existence apart from the soul nor can the tongue nor can the ears perceive hearing or even remain in being apart from the soul how then can souls be possessed of the five senses when all the organs of those senses have perished and since we see that the vital sense spreads through the whole body and the whole is animated if on a sudden any violence shall cut through the body in the middle so as to sever the two parts asunder the substance of the soul also without doubt being disunited and divided together with the body will be dispersed and scattered abroad but that which is divided and separates into any parts evidently shows that it has not an ever-during nature people relate that chariots armed with skites warm and promiscuous slaughter often cut off limbs with such suddenness that the part which being severed has fallen from the body is seen to quiver on the ground when notwithstanding the mind and spirit of the man from the quickness of the wound cannot feel any pain and because at the same time the mind in the ardour of battle is given up to action it pursues fighting and slaughter with the remainder of the body nor is one man aware frequently in the midst of the horses that the wheels and amputating skites have carried away his left hand which is lost together with its defence nor is another conscious while he climbs the wall and presses forward that his right hand has dropped off a third next attempts to rise after having lost his leg while his dying foot close by him moves its toes on the ground and the head of a fourth severed from the warm and living trunk keeps while lying on the ground its look of life and its eyes open until it has yielded up all remains of the soul within it moreover if when the tongue of a serpent vibrates against you and his tail and long body threaten you you may feel inclined to cut both tail and body into several parts with your sword you will see all the parts separately cut through with the recent wound right about and sprinkle the earth with blood and you will observe the four part turning backward seeking itself that is the hindre part of the body with its mouth so that pierced with the burning anguish of the wound it may seize it with its teeth shall we then say that there are entire souls in all those several parts but from that position it will follow that one living creature has several souls in its single body and since this is absurd we must admit therefore that that has been divided with the body therefore both must be thought to be mortal since both are equally divided into several portions besides if the nature of the soul exists imperishable and is infused into men at their birth why are we unable to remember the period of existence previously spent by us nor retain any traces of past transactions for if the power of the mind is so exceedingly changed that all remembrance of past things has departed from it that change as I think is not far removed from death itself for which reason you must of necessity acknowledge that whatever soul previously existed has perished and that that which exists for the present has been produced for the present again if after the body is completely formed the vital power of the soul is want to be introduced into us at the very time when we are born and when we cross the threshold of life it would not be in accordance with this that it should seem as it now seems to have grown up in the blood itself together with the body and with its several members but it would rather be natural that it should live alone as in a cage by itself and for itself though in such a manner that the whole body by its influence should abound with sense and vitality for which reason I say again and again we must neither think that souls are without beginning nor that they are exempt from the law of death for neither must we deem that souls if infused into us from without could have been so completely united with our bodies which complete union on the contrary manifest experience proves to take place for the soul is so combined with the body throughout the veins viscera, nerves and bones that even the very teeth have a share of feeling as their aching proves and the acute pain from cold water and the cringing of a hard pebble suddenly among our food nor when they are so completely united does it seem possible for them to come out entire and to extricate themselves unharmed from all the nerves and bones and joints but if still perchance you think that a soul infused from without is one to expend itself through our limbs yet to admit this is only to admit that every man's soul being spread out with the body will so much the more certainly perished with it for that which is diffused throughout the body is dissolved with it and therefore perishes being distributed then through all the passages of the body as food when it is distributed through all the members and limbs is dissolved and takes of itself another nature so the soul and the mind although under this supposition they go whole into the body at first yet are dissolved like digested food in diffusing themselves through it while the particles are distributed as if through tubes into all the limbs the particles I say of which is formed this substance of the mind which now rules in our body and which has been generated like the new nature of food from that which lost its its consistency when it was spread throughout the limbs for which reasons the nature or substance of the soul seems neither to have been without a natal day nor to be exempt from death again whether do any atoms of the soul remain in a dead body or not for if any remain and exist in the body it will not be possible for the soul to be justly accounted immortal since when she took her departure she was diminished of some lost particles but if when removed she fled with all her parts so entire that she left no atoms of her substance in the body whence do dead carcasses when the viscera become putrid sent forth worms and whence does such an abundance of living creatures void of bones and blood swarm over the soul and limbs but if perchance you think that perfectly formed souls may be insinuated into those worms from without and if you suppose that they may pass each into its own body and yet admit to consider for what cause many thousands of souls should congregate in the place from which one soul is withdrawn this point however which you leave out of consideration is of such a nature that it seems especially worthy to be sought into and broad under examination it is proper not only to reflect I say whether souls hunt for particular atoms of worms and build for themselves carcasses in which they may dwell or whether they infuse themselves into bodies already made but also to consider that there is no reason to be given why they should make bodies or why they should labour at all for while they are without a body they fly about understand by diseases and cold and hunger since it is the body that rather labours under these most melodies as well as from death and the soul suffers all evils from contact with it but nevertheless let it be as advantageous as you please for these souls to make a body which they may enter there seems however to be no means by which they may make it it is fair therefore to conclude that souls do not make for themselves bodies and limbs nor yet is there a possibility as it appears that they can be bodies perfectly formed for neither in that supposition can they be exactly fitted together nor will their mutual motions be carried on with sympathy furthermore why does violent rage attend upon the sullen breed of lions and craft upon that of foxes and why is flight communicated to stags from their sires and why does hereditary fear add speed to their limbs and as to other qualities of this sort why do they all generate in the body and temperament from the earliest period of life if it be not because of certain disposition of mind grows up together with each body from its own seed and stock but if the soul were immortal and were accustomed as Pythagoreans think to change bodies surely animals would gradually alter and grow of mixed dispositions the dog of herkanian breed would often flee from the assault of the horned stag the hawk flying through the air of heaven would tremble at the approach of the dove men would lose their understanding and the savage tribes of wild beasts become reasonable for that which some assert namely that an immortal soul is altered by a change of body is advanced upon false reasoning as that which is altered loses its consistency and therefore perishes since the parts are transposed and depart from their original arrangement wherefor the parts of the soul under this hypothesis must also be subject to disillusion throughout the limbs so that finally they may all perish together with the body but if they shall say that the souls of men always migrate into human bodies I shall nevertheless ask why a soul from being wise in a wise body should possibly become foolish in the body of a fool why no child is found discreet or informed with a soul of mature understanding and why no foal of a mare is as skillful in his paces as the horse of full vigour why I say is this if it be not because a certain temper of mind grows up with each body from its own seed and stock these philosophers for soothe will take refuge in the assertion that the mind becomes tender but if this be the case you must admit that the soul is mortal since being so excellently changed in its new body it loses its former vitality and powers or in what way will the vigour of a soul strengthened in concert with each particular body be able to reach with it the desired flower of mature age unless it shall be joined to it in its first origin what motive does the soul go forth from limbs that are grown old does it fear to remain imprisoned in a decaying carcass lest it should decay with it or is it afraid lest its tenement shaken with a long course of life should fall and overwhelm it but to that which is immortal there are no such dangers moreover to imagine that souls stand ready at the amorous intercourses or parteritions of beasts to enter into the young seems exceedingly ridiculous it appears too absurd to suppose that in mortal beings in infinite numbers should wait for mortal bodies and content emulously among themselves which shall be first and foremost to enter unless perchance you suppose that agreements have been made among the souls that the first which shall have come flying to the body shall have first and that they made thus have no contest in strength with one another again neither can a tree exist in the sky nor clouds in the deep sea nor can fish live in the fields nor blood be in wood nor liquid in stones it is fixed and arranged where everything may grow and subsist thus the nature or substance of the mind cannot spring up alone without the body or exist apart from the nerves and the blood whereas if this could happen the power of the mind might at times rather arise in the head or the shoulders or the bottom of the heels and might rather accustomed itself to grow in any place than to remain in the same man and in the same receptacle but since it seems fixed and appointed also in our own body where the soul and the mind may subsist and grow up by themselves it is so much the more to be denied that they can endure and be produced out of the entire body for which reason when the body has perished you must necessarily admit that the soul which is diffused throughout the body has perished with it besides to join the mortal to the immortal and to suppose that they can sympathize together and perform mutual operations is to think absurdly for what can be conceived more at variance with reason consistent and irreconcilable in itself than that that which is mortal joined to that which is imperishable and eternal should submit to endure violent storms and troubles in combination with it furthermore whatsoever bodies remain eternal must either as being of a solid consistence repel blows and suffer nothing to penetrate them that can disunite their compact parts within as are the primary particles of matter the nature of which we have shown above or they must be able to endure throughout all time because they are free from blows or unsusceptible of them as is a vacuum which remains intangible and suffers nothing from a stroke or they must be indestructible for this reason that there is no sufficiency of space round about into which their constituent substances may as it were separate can be dissolved as the entire universe is eternal in as much as there is neither any space without it into which its parts may disperse nor are there any bodies which may fall upon it and break it to pieces by a violent concussion but as I've shown neither is the nature of the soul of a solid consistence since with all compound bodies vacuum is mixed nor is it like a vacuum itself bodies wanting which rising fortuitously from the infinite of things may overturn this frame of the mind with a violent tempest or bring upon it some other kind of disaster and danger nor moreover is vastness and profundity of space wanting into which the substance of the soul may be dispersed or may otherwise perish and be overwhelmed by any other kind of force the gate of death therefore is not shut against the mind and soul but if perchance the soul in the opinion of any is to be accounted immortal the more on this account that is kept fortified by things preservative of life or because objects adverse to its safety do not all approach it or because those that do approach being by some means diverted retreat before we can perceive what injury they inflict the notion of those who think thus is evidently far removed from just reasoning for besides that it sicken from diseases of the body there often happens something to trouble it concerning future events and keep it disquited in fear and harass it with cares while remorse for faults from past acts wickedly and foolishly committed torments and distresses it join to these afflictions the insanity peculiar to the mind and the oblivion of all things and add besides that it is often sunk into the black waves of lethargy end of section 8