Okay, welcome. This is Google summer of code 2022. It's the get cash maintenance project and it's the 14th of June. So who should cash I had notes on updating the project page details and as far as I can tell that is done and merged. Yeah. And did you were your questions regarding UI UI answered or is there more to be discussed there. No, actually, you know, check the, you know, pull request which I've done, you know, can you download it and run it on your computer. I thought I was working on a different topic on the get plugin today so I have not but I certainly will. You want me to do that right now. Yeah, you know so that we can go through what exactly I have done and how we can proceed forward. Super hang on while I do that. I need to stash something. Okay, get lucky and. All right, so let me show you my screen. All right, here we go. So, first, pull in all the copies. GHPR list. GHPR check out 1277. Okay, and then you'd like to see it running. Yeah. HPI colon run. Okay. Oops. Maven. Oh, fine. I have to bring up a different window. Just a minute for cash. There we go. Maven cleaning minus D Jenkins that version equals 36. HPI colon run. Okay, here we go. And I didn't even bother to ask you what, what is the minimum Jenkins version that is currently configured in the palm. I, okay, I, I, what, what was using something reasonably modern. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I didn't need to set it to 2.346, but it shouldn't do us any harm. Compiling now. Okay, maybe not quite downloading another half of the internet and then compiling. Let's make the terminal window bigger so that we can see it. Your internet is pretty fast. Mine takes a lot of time to download. Yeah, well, and it's, sorry, that's that's one. Yeah, we're, we're, we're in a competition right now. In the area where I live. To see if the company that provides my internet currently can keep up with the local government that is bringing fiber to our homes and so yes, it should be fast because they're in a race and if they lose the race they lose money so All right, so this is ready and now if we go to local post 8080 slash Jenkins. I remember correctly that will now give us a Jenkins that's running. Come on. There we go. Okay, so if we do manage Jenkins and just for fun, let's look at the installed version of the get plug in. And it should tell us some snapshot version. Yes. Okay. Good. So what would you like me to Can you scroll? Can you scroll up? There's the get maintenance. Oh, very nice. Okay. And, and this is the basic UI. So if you check that, if you enter the Crohn syntax in the incorrect Crohn syntax, there's form validation as well like a basic. And then like that. Oh, good. So it does the thing that Jenkins does and says, are you sure you mean that. And if you render incorrect Crohn syntax as well or you know it doesn't go no. Good. Okay. So if I do. So I can I'm also allowed to enter a value. Now do the field shrink based on screen with they do. So even if we go very narrow nice. Okay, very good. Let's see. So, 99 99. Oh, very good. So it won't even take 60 because that's not valid. And it won't take negative one, I bet. Nice. Very good. Okay, now I don't see any online help question mark here so. Yeah, that is one of the tasks which it doesn't work. I tried adding that but that isn't working. I don't know why. Yeah, so that is one problem I was facing. I was thinking of the check checkbox kind of a thing you know where I if I take this only then the maintenance task will run instead of like if we don't have this checkbox with then users won't have control. So I was thinking of adding a checkbox like this. Submit the, you know, save. Yeah, save it and then it'll get printed in the terminal there. Okay, so here's where it says all right here are the settings that were passed. Yeah, here I'm not able to you know but whichever cross syntax is incorrect I'm not able to you know stop it from submitting the form that's something I was facing an issue in. Well, but I think that's that's also common for other Jenkins forms is is the the the hints are only hints they're not barriers. So, so if we say 59 59 59 59. And that will say no, the. Let's see minutes hours so this one must be 23. No line position seven okay so. Minutes, or no, let's say minutes hours. Let's say it's the same syntax so 59 minutes, 23 hours. Or no is it seconds. No, no, it's minute it starts from minutes. Okay, so minutes. 23 hours 59 minutes and any. Okay yeah. Okay so this says. Okay, if you'd like to see and that is the correct recommendation. All right now when I do. But if I put an invalid. And now do a save it will save you but I didn't execute, you press the execute button. Oh, even better. Okay, so save. Here we go. And here it says, whoops. Oh, it says saving. I didn't have data in there okay 23 59. 59 isn't all right right right let's be sure that's there. That's better. Now save. And then this was safe. Yeah. But if you enter an incorrect one also it gets submitted so. And there it is. Yeah. Invalid, which means when you're reading from the, when you're reading stored values from the disk you have to be willing to you can't crash when you see something invalid. Good. Okay. Now, right now you're it's not yet persisting to storage. Let's just send I had a doubt I asked it in the Gitter channel, whether should I use global configuration to store the data in XML files. But I didn't get a response so I didn't continue with that. Okay yeah and I think, at least I think this should be global. I think really get maintenance tasks you've put it the right place right here is a very reasonable place to do it. We may want to get you a different icon but that's that's a great icon for now and and then. And now what happens if I give no value. Does it have it still like I told you I didn't do any odd. I was thinking of having a default, but then it was like you know we'll have will test it on your computer or something like that so then I didn't work on that as well. And then that's, that's quite fine. Yeah. Good. Okay. So, should I be using the global configuration class, which I sent in the Gitter channel, you know to store the data internally. I would think so. I've, I've, let's, let's take a look at the other code in the plugin and see how it does it. But I thought it was already using the global configuration class and so that would mean make a reasonable thing to do. Okay so get plug in silly program okay fine. Let's I'm so used to running on Linux, I'm going to have to go switch to Linux for now just a minute. Okay, so now I wanted to see how it stores its configuration already. So, here we go something that uses a global config value. Yeah, here we are global dot jelly. And it's using a field called global config name. So let's find global config name. Again, get SCM, and what it's got is a descriptor implementation. That's inside and it's using that so I don't think it's using a oh no there it is okay. Sorry, let's try this again. The descriptor is where. Okay, so get global config name and get global config email. Okay, so it's just using a descriptor. So I don't see any mention of anything global here, but now this is I guess this is the problem that I've never. I don't have experience taking the approach you've taken but I prefer your approach I think it's exactly the right thing to do. So you've got the benefit that what you're doing is you've created a separate panel in here in the system configuration so it's very clear to people what they're editing and they don't have to have the horrible this experience is very fast. They can see it immediately whereas if they click this one, they wait and they wait and they wait and they keep waiting and they're still waiting. And then finally somewhere deep in the heart of this thing is a get configuration page. And so I like your technique much better. Whatever technique let's see we've I what which things do I know that do this kind of thing implied labels is doing doing exactly the sort of thing you're doing it has a panel here for the implied label and then has a editing. So let's go do a quick look at the implied labels plug in and see how it does it. My inspiration was from code as configuration, you know the same. They have used the global configuration so even I thought. And I think that sounds great to me because if it's if that's working for you, I am, I am fully fully up with that that's not yes I think that's wonderful. I'd still want to take a look at global configuration just are implied implied labels. Just to see how it does it. Nope. Okay, so it doesn't have. It doesn't have anything named global in it. Interesting. So how is it doing it so implied labels plug in as a thing called. A config and a configure dot jelly. So I think this and this are how they implement theirs. And the config class is a management link. Yeah. So is that what you're using management. Okay, good. Then, then you're doing it the way the way the way that I think is best to do it so that we have a just like you did on the UI. We have a separate page where did it go. Nice separate page here for get maintenance and very fast user interface dedicated to exactly this thing. But this is looking looking really great, great for Shikesh. Thank you. Oh, yeah, that was about it. So I think I'll proceed with global configuration, you know to store the data internally in Jenkins. The other thing I wanted to discuss was about this UI, I was thinking of you know, based on the get wash, like get version present on the system. You know those maintenance, like those fields only would be displaced or assume if I get 2.20 and only commit graph and incremental repack is supported only those two fields would be displayed and the other three wouldn't be displayed on the UI. It's very sophisticated. I like that because you can check the thing, the place we're doing the maintenance tasks is on the controller only so it doesn't matter what get version is on the agent. That's a good observation. You know the controller has this version and if it's running some ancient version that can't do maintenance tasks. You don't show that one. So yeah, now we should always be able to do garbage collection right. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and I think we can always do prefetch because the way it seemed to be described to me was that's something we could implement even without help from command line get. But the others commit graph definitely right that is one that you have to have a certain certain a more modern get version. Okay. So that was what I was thinking so I wanted your opinion like should we should I go ahead with that or not. I think so I think that's a good choice. Okay. Yeah, I think then I think I'll proceed with that. Yeah, another doubt I had was you know if you go to the pull request on GitHub, there are there are a few tests which are failing and I don't know why it's failing. It's based on some Java 17 or Java 18 version which is but let's check and see that may give us some interesting, interesting questions to ask, because the tests are definitely passing on on on the primary branch on the master branch. Oh, oh, right. No failed to serialize. Okay, so this would seem to indicate that you had changed a definition of something such that it can't be serialized at all. Let's take a look really briefly. So here we've got this one. I just changed the you know Jenkins version in the palm file. So, I don't know if that cause an issue. It shouldn't oh well okay I guess they're there are a couple of things we can we can adjust here. But this I don't think will it will actually break anything so where is that Jenkins stop Java dot level. We don't need that anymore. What exactly is this job. It's a. It was a way of declaring which what is the minimum Java version that the plugin supports. Okay, but that's already inferred by the version number of this parent palm. And so putting Java dot level was was redundant doesn't help. So now let's do that diff again just to see. Okay, so here we see are you've excluded error prone annotations source code encodings fine filing. Okay. And I am not entirely sure why we need the encoding but did you find there was a reason why it was required. Oh, I did I add that I didn't add that I just added one line that the Jenkins version. I don't know what the important. Oh well okay well so then let's, let's, let's make the change. So what you're saying is, all you intended to change was Jenkins version. Yeah. Okay, let's do that then. And you wanted to add the exclusion for error. Yeah, yeah, yeah, otherwise it doesn't get in the way I'm not able to build it so. Okay, good. Yeah, very good. So now let's do let's go whoops. Yeah, we'll leave it as this for now so reduce diffs. All right, let's see if I broke something with the change I made. And are you okay if I push this to your branch so that yeah yeah that's fine. Okay. Okay, I expose wrap. Yeah, there are some, you know, with the spot bug issues which I haven't fixed. I have to fix them. And I like, I like those to be fixed, whoops, because usually they're telling us something that isn't useful for us to know this one. The warning that it's exposing internal implementation is, I think probably accurate. And so you'll need to, you'll need to do the make the change let's see. It's too late in the nighttime. Okay, so it was 932. And it says this is returning internal. Oh yes, and that's a modifiable map so I'm not sure you want that. What what prompted well so so for now we're going to have to suppress it. Because otherwise it will fail. It will fail tests, it will fail the checks, but you certainly don't want long term to suppress it. And now if you come, if you comment this or something then there'll be other functions which would you know, throw errors because it's dependent on this. Right. You're saying me do you like it should be an immutable map right. I'm sorry ask your question again. Like, basically should be an immutable map right because this map can be modifiable. Well, the question, I guess the question to you is, do you, let's, if we look at what the spot bugs warning is reporting if I remember correctly what what it says when it reports that is. I expose rep here we go so let's read what they say and my recollection is what they say is this class is exposing the internal representation to the two collars and the danger of exposing internal representation to collars is they could do harm. Now so where is that here we go. Returning a reference to a mutable object value stored in a field exposes internal representation. And so the danger here is, you're going to someone else could modify the object without using your interfaces. Now, do you need a map, do you need to return both keys and values right. Yeah, but I don't think it would like if I, I want to, I want to change the data, you know data in the map inside that. So if I would return a mutable map, I think it would, you know, our people, you know, elements outside that class can just use the data to read it, but not, you know, change it. Yeah, they have to call a method in this class. And that makes sense so that so there is a way to to monitor to declare that I am returning an immutable map, right so so if you can do that, that sounds great. I do that. All right, and so if I suppress that warning. That was. And now I need to go find the warning suppression import. Oh really, I know I've got at least one suppression in this code. There we know. There it is okay. And I'm doing something you should not do, right, much better if you would resolve the issue for right now we do it that way we can, we can keep going and answer more questions. Okay, see what the change looks like. Fix. Fix me. Don't ship with this suppress. Resolve the issue. Okay, now back to our maven command. I haven't solved the thing that we originally were trying to answer which is why does the test fail right now let's go look at that specific test and see if we still see it failing I assume we will. Okay, so the test that's failing is test is get SCM test dot that. Okay. So, and that was on the specific Java version, right. Oh, was it so is it limited to Java 17. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well so let's do this. Let's prove that I don't see the failure on Java 11 and then I'll switch to Java 17 and watch it fail. That is most interesting so. Okay, so now I'm using Java 17. Okay, and I don't see the failure. Okay, so how has it failed repeatedly in that way or was this a single time accident. No, it failed like when what I did all you know, yeah, I kept feeling for like. Interesting. All right, so what might be going on here. Okay, so it's, it's reporting a an unstable build on Java 17 and a failed build on windows running Java eight. Okay, what you know what I'm going to push my change. You're okay if I push it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, this will let it get started now. And 15 or 20 minutes from now we should be able to see the next run. 10 should already have started. Okay, good. Here it is 10 is starting. All right. So what other questions do we need to answer while we wait for that to continue. So other things like I'm kind of new to testing so the test I've done test driven development but I'm not sure how good are my tests so if you you know, like whenever you're free or something if you like your review the test which I've written so that you know, so that I can improve on whatever tests I've written, or you know change the test. I'm not sure about that. Okay, yeah, so let's, let's take a look at the tests. I just saw one pattern that I was. Okay, no, no equals method. This, this actually looks quite good to me. Oh, oh, I bet I know why those file names are not working. I bet I have a guess why the help is not working. Because it chooses things based on field name and the field names you've got are are different than the file name that you use. Okay. So let's see it is for example. Where is the as the hill for incremental underscore read back. I don't know what is that. Okay, so you're using an enum here for the type of the task. But then how will we. So, where is the jelly. This must be it. Because the user. Yeah, what is doing is you're going, you're iterating over each of the maintenance tasks types. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so in that case, then I don't, I think you won't be able to use the built in. Association of help to fields because you're generating the fields dynamically. Okay. Interesting. Okay, so, so I think if you want the benefit of being able to just do a simply named file here. We may have to do some, we have to change this instead of using an iterator over over each of the maintenance tasks. You may have to call each one out individually. Oh, I didn't understand so. Let's let's see if we can try it here. Are you okay. Is this interesting to you or would you are there other things that you'd rather we be doing rather than this exploration of health. No, no, this is fine. This is fine with me. Okay, so let's try this. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to cheat and put something in. As a. I'm going to put junk in that will distract us. I'm going to do it. Copy of this. Up here. And instead of, so I'm going to call this. Mark weight. Fake. They were inside the form. The title. And field crown syntax. Okay, so this is the association. With where it should be writing, which is correct, right. Yeah. But then this. Instead of my, wouldn't it be it. My, my, I've read the documentation and it was written as my. Okay, good.  Now where is. So where is the name of the field. It's this thing, right is the entry. All right. So F colon entry field equals. All right. So that was the syntax. Field equals. Cron syntax. How do we do this then? Because. We look at this one. How is it providing the help? There was other way of adding the help. Thing by, you know, adding a head. You know, attribute to that tag. But that is not the best practice. Kind of a thing. So. Right. And, and, and here it is. So here's the, so you see here is push only if success for the field. And then this thing. Push only if success. Actually, let's try this. Maybe it's enough for us. Whoops. What if. We create a file named. Help dash. Cron syntax. Had you already tried that. I tried something. But it didn't come. You can try it again. Cron syntax. Help. In very large letters. And if I remember, always separate it with it. Surround it with a div. Okay. Is the dev one necessary or something? My understanding is it's required. Okay. Now, but I could be wrong. So don't, don't. I'm very often wrong. I'm going to add that. Yeah. And, and I don't think that's why it's not, not appearing. So let's. Let's try this just to see. Okay. That's why it's not, not appearing. So let's, let's try this just to see how would I do this. I need to get that change. Onto a place where I'm actually doing work. Because right now I'm looking at it on my Linux computer and that doesn't help us at all. Let's go back here. So we need a file named. Help Cron syntax. In that location. Source main resources, Jenkins. Plugins get. Maintenance. All right. Now here we have. Help commit graph. And we're going to write a new file named help dash con. Syntax. Okay. So now back to where we were. Because somewhere here. We have a Jenkins running. We want to interrupt and start again. Yes. Terminate the batch job. And up our web browser. And manage Jenkins. Get maintenance. Still no help. It was a nice thought. Okay. Needs more investigation needs more exploring. Yeah. I tried that also. I didn't get it. I thought I was doing something. Yeah. And, and. But we do see the index dot jelly, right? Because that file is working. So if I were to do something like. Since we're right here, let's just try and experiment. We're inside the form. Yeah. Go ahead. I don't see that entry, which I've done in this file. So is it the reason why it doesn't come? I, I undid the, the change. Okay. Yeah. So this file is unmodified. Actually let's make the change in a place where. We can see it live. Let's do it here. Okay. I think we should insert. A new div. Inside the form. Okay. And now we want an entry. And the thing we want is title equals. Very scary. And the field equals. Like that, right? So then we end the entry. Okay. Now if that worked when I reload that page in my web browser. There is very scary.  Oh, because it's got no right because it doesn't have a text box. Okay. Right. I need to give it someplace to write data. All I did was title the thing. But now the problem here is. I think we can remove the name check URL and check method and, you know, Right. Well, and, and I think, isn't it that. Is, isn't this field here. No help. Because what I've got is a title, but there's nowhere to store it. The thing that does the story. Storing is in the text box that asks for the data. And so if I take this off, why? Okay. No way to say, oh, no, no, no, this field must be necessary. Because that's how that's how it knows. What should be associated with the text box and the text box doesn't have its own field value. Hmm. Okay. Well, let's see what happens. That's why we can experiment here together. Okay. So reload. This is a field. And it's doing no validation where this one is doing validation so that disabling the validation really did have the effect that you expected. Is it not because help dash. Let's try it again. Just to see. There's, there's this very scary. Yeah, help for help for feature very scary. That's not very helpful though. You add a help attribute to that. I did. Yes. Okay. But, but it's. You need to pass it. I guess, you know, as a value. Ah, okay. So you're thinking that that it's, it's not enough just to have made it entirely local. I need to say. Because what I got there was a help icon, but it doesn't have the text. Okay. So, see if I can find somebody. My search function is broken.  Just a moment. Let's get a real get session. Okay. And I don't have it in this one. So that's not very helpful. I don't know what it's searching. It's so large, but I don't know. What would it be a dash. What I was looking for was something in a jelly file that you specifically calls out. What I don't understand is why this is so slow. It's very fast that way. I have few other questions. There we go. F entry help equals. And you're right. It really does use full path name. And here it's putting it in source main web app. That's a really strange place to put it. But let's try experiment. We'll throw it away. It's part of this game. Okay, so, and it was called index. It was called help dash. Clones index. Okay, so if we do. Let's just assume. It's source main. What do you think we could do? Could we safely assume this is it? And I think it should be plugins. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay, let's try that. So here. The idea is do that. Right. Yeah. Oops. Thank you. Okay. If we were lucky. No, that is not what I wanted. We want this. We'll refresh this page. Error failed to load help file, not found. Okay. So I didn't get it right that time. Let's make some more guesses. I'm going to guess Jenkins. Actually, I'm going to guess that I may need to recompile. Because I'm adding a new file, aren't I? Yeah. So it may not be good enough to just reload. You know what else we could do is we could look at the package jar file. And see where it puts it. Because that's how it's looking how it's finding it is inside the file. Are the in the packaged HPI file. So here we are again. Error failed to load help file, not found. Okay, back to our earlier experiment experiment. So we've got the icon. What we lack is the online help. But I think, I think that's the right track. It just needs more experimenting to find it. Yeah. Sorry that it's taking me so long here who should cash. I can do some investigation later or you, you may be better suited to do the investigation on your own. Okay. I've tried all kinds of ways, but I haven't found anything. That's why. Oh, okay. Well, then let's not, let's not squander more of your time on help. Let's let me take it up and see if I can find a way to, to get that answer so that we've got help for it. Okay. And a few other questions. You know, like my laptop charging. Yeah. A few, another question. You know, it's very difficult for me to get to know when exactly which maintenance command has been released in the, you know, in which kit version. It's very hard for me. I've tried going through that kit, you know, repository, the official repository to try finding it. But I haven't found in which version was which, like, you know, which maintenance task has been released, you know, for the legacy kit. So you do you have like any idea about that? I've got a way I think that we could, we could discover it empirically, we could discover it by an experiment. Let's, here's, here's my idea if you're willing to just use what the infrastructure I've already got. So I've got a Jenkins controller here that has a bunch of types of various types, free BST, sentos, et cetera. And what we could do is on each of them, we could do get maintenance minus, minus help. Okay. And see what does it tell us. And then we, we, we use try that. And let's, let's see which ones offer. If you get maintenance help, you'd think it would probably list the tasks, wouldn't it? Yeah. So let me, let's try creating a job really quickly. If it's below 2.30 version, there's no maintenance itself. So even better, it will fail very, very bluntly then, right? It'll, it'll just crash and say, sorry, I don't know how to do that. So let's, let's do the following. Let's create a new job called. Get. Get maintenance. Maintenance. Help. Does that seem okay? And then what we're going to do is we're going to copy this other job, get tools that happens to do this already for me. And now instead of doing this, I'm going to borrow. Get. Get maintenance. Help. Okay, so this is where I'll do a quick change to a. Separate repository and let's talk about. How we do that. So here. All right, so I was doing get tools. And the command that I said that I wanted to name it was. Get me needs help. Okay. So in my fat fingers at 11pm. All right, so this says. Any agent. Let's say any agent. At all. It's going to iterate over each of them. Yet maintenance. Let's do that. Okay. And we don't even need to do a checkout SCM. Do we? We just say. Yet minus minus version. Yet maintenance. Maintenance. Maintenance. Minus minus help. Yeah. Right. That should be good enough. And that's the SH one. And then here we say yet minus minus version. Get maintenance. Minus minus help. We think that will work, right? Yeah. Okay, let's try it. At a report. Get maintenance. Help. Okay, now let's run the job. But we would get to know or like on a better that version supports get maintenance or not. Right. But get maintenance was released in 2.30 version. But the thing here, I wanted to know like in which version was, you know, comment graph released, you know, which version was, you know, GC released. So wouldn't we, wouldn't we see that by looking at the get maintenance help for that specific version. So let's, let's, let's test that here is. Let's find a machine that has a so get. Maintenance. Minus minus help. And what it does is it lists the tasks here. And so this version. Has one, two, three, four, five, six tasks. Yeah. So my thought was if we do get, get minus minus version and get maintenance, minus, minus help. It will tell us. If, if that. If that version first, it will fail. If get maintenance, minus, minus help. Fails because there's no get maintenance command. We know all that version doesn't have it. And because we output the version number, we then can remember, oh, this was the version. Does, does that make sense? But then how would I know, like which version? No, so basically what was the, you know, the whole point of asking this question was because now if I have to implement get maintenance for legacy systems, you know, I need to know which version it was introduced so that from that version to, you know, the latest version, like below 2.30, I can run this command that was the whole idea behind it. Okay, I'm not sure I'm understanding. So, so you what I think what you want is you want to generate a list. That says for this command line get version, it has these get maintenance commands, right? Yeah. And so what I was trying to do here was looking at the actual distributions that we've got, I've got installed. We could very quickly assemble a subset of that list at least by, by doing this to see what, how the get maintenance commands are distributed. Which get maintenance commands are available on which get versions. So you're okay if I try this just for a minute and then we'll, we'll, we can give up quickly if it doesn't work out. Yeah, sure. So build now. Okay, now it's building on several. And let's watch what its command line does get version, get maintenance, minus, minus help. Okay. So here it is. The get version is 2.30.2 And it has the following commands commit graph, prefetch, GC. So I think it did what I was hoping it would do. And then all right, here's one where it failed. Here's several where it failed. Let's pick one that failed and see what the failure tells us. And what the failure will tell us is it was running get version 2.17 and get maintenance is not a command. Yeah. Now I wanted to know, like, and this get version, like what maintenance commands would be supported?  That is what is my question. So, so couldn't we take a variant of that then and say, let's, so let's do the same thing and say instead, which things do we think should be supported like. Get GC. Yeah. Yeah. And now you said. Get youth commit graph is a separate command. Yeah. Okay. So then, then we can do the same thing. And say, and now if we were really sophisticated, we would replace on the shell at least. The semicolons with ampersands and say on the first failure stop. So what we'll see is it will say. It will report the version. It will see if it can give help for GC, help for commit graph, and then it will try to give help for maintenance. Now I don't remember how to do that for, for windows. So we're stuck with windows. I'll just, I'll just have to put up with that. Stop on first failure. Okay. So. If we look in our friendly local blue ocean. And what we see is Debian. On its environment says. Here's the help for GC. Here's the help for commit graph. And let's prove it. This one is what get version. It is. 2.30. So it was predictably a good, a good one. Now, if we go to one of the failures. Adam army. I think this one's running. We're going to 18. And it's get version is. 2.17. And it has GC. But it does not have commit graph. Okay. So that's, so that would, I think that may suggest. We ought to give you access to my environment so that you could run these kind of tests yourself. If are you willing to do that? Do you mind using my equipment? You'd have to SSH into the system. But then you can create your own jobs and run them. Yeah. That's fine. I can do that. If you're willing to send me by email, a public key. Okay. So an SSH public key and usually it's. It could be RSA. It could be ED 25519. It could be. ECDSA, if you prefer those. Just email me a public key, not the private key. I don't want the private key that's secure and you keep that. But send me a public key and I'll give you an account. Oh, and what username you would like. Rishi 20 would do. Yeah. You send that in the email. I'm unfortunately not able to remember that. Sure. I'll send it by email. Great.  I know it's 11 in the, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Go ahead.  And then I, you know, I couldn't get any work done. So if Saturday and Sunday is like, if you're on leave, then I wouldn't put a message in the group so that, you know, don't, don't be shy about putting those messages. Last week I was unavailable on Saturday and Sunday because I had just returned from a business trip. Most times I'm online at least sometime during the day, Saturday, less likely on Sunday, but still frequently on Sunday as well. Okay. Now, and remembering that I'm 12 hours. What is it? Am I 12 hours ahead of you or 12 hours behind? I'm 12 hours behind you, right? Because you're on the other side of the, you're on the high side of the international daylight. I'm on the low side of the international daylight. So that's what I wanted to ask because, you know, I was worried like, what do I do? So I couldn't get anything done that time. So, yeah. And my apologies for that. I am sincerely sorry that these first two weeks, the most crucial, crucial and important period called community bonding. I was off on business trips and on personal vacation. So let's, let's do our best to fix that by meeting more frequently and being sure that we get, I get you the information you need. If it will help you, we could meet two times a week. We can meet. I'm even open to meeting on weekends if that helps you. Okay. If there's anything like that, I'll let you know. Great. Yeah. So this week's agenda would be to stay save all the, you know, data, which the administrator enters into the, you know, configuration files. That was what would be the agenda. And I would, I think I'll start working on, you know, scheduling maintenance tasks initially for get versions greater than 2.3 zero. Excellent. I think that sounds great. That gives us something for experiments very quickly. And, and it means you're already actively working on some of the largest and most interesting objects in the system. So the, you're actually getting real work and we're, you've got, we've got a rudimentary UI and the UI is good enough to allow us to do things that you can switch focus to the, to the logic behind it. Yeah. Great. Anything else for us to cash. That's it from my side. All right. Well, I'm going to go ahead and stop. I will try to upload this recording tomorrow. I need to go to bed now. So thanks very much. And, and it's a pleasure working with you. Same with you. Thank you. Bye-bye.


Coming up on Court to Court. To manage the Generation Xers, I would say my biggest challenge is going to be keeping them. If you look at all the theory and overlook the people component, I think you've done an injustice to the term leadership. Colonial Conferencing is a unique method of training. I found it to be very beneficial. This is Court to Court, your connection to what's happening in the federal courts around the country, providing information and ideas that will enhance your job and how the courts function. Now with today's program, Michael Burney. Welcome to the second edition of Court to Court. This is one of two educational magazine programs from the Federal Judicial Center to keep you up to date on innovations and changes that will affect how you do your job. On today's program, we'll address some of the challenges of managing across generations, take a look at a leadership development program, see how courts are reaching out to help other courts increase efficiency, highlight online conferencing, and of course introduce more words to know. And finally, we'll hear from some of your colleagues in our segment called It's Your Turn. Let's get started. Organizational psychologist Dr. Neal Stroll says that there are about three generations in the workforce at any given time. He notes that people who have grown up in different generations have had different experiences that affect how they view the workplace and their place in it. How do you effectively motivate and manage your staff when members of your staff cut across these generational lines? Our first segment helps answer that question. I am motivated by challenges and new things.  You know, so if something came along that interested me more, I would certainly pursue it. Usually you need to change environments to continue to grow. I definitely have a fear of being stagnant. If any of these comments sound familiar, you're not alone. To manage the generation Xers, I would say my biggest challenge is going to be keeping them. In the 1980s, a novelist coined the term generation X, referring to people in their 20s and early 30s who felt they didn't fit in. The term has since found its way into popular jargon. It sometimes comes with negative connotations, which are unfounded, says organizational psychologist Neil Stroll. For a while, a lot of the popular press was trying to hoist off this slacker stereotype about members of generation X.  Members of generation X are every bit as strong a work ethic as baby boomers do. And yet some issues seem to have some relation to generational values and styles. Turnover is one of them. It takes six weeks to train a docket clerk, and it takes a good year before they're expert at what they do. And so it's quite hard when we've gone through that and somebody leaves in six, eight months or even the year. Westall attended Stroll's session on intergenerational issues at a recent clerk's conference sponsored by the Federal Judicial Center. Stroll says that it was quite different to come of age in the 1970s and 80s. One of the things the Xers saw that the boomers didn't was layoffs and downsizing.  That certainly has hit home for me because I never wanted to be laid off like my father was. Gardner understands that work today is more complex and that everyone must deal with technology. We have to constantly train our people, whether they're new people coming in or whether they're current people on the job we've been there for 10 years, they're going to have to go through some type of training or retraining because their job is constantly changing. These lessons will be done with electronic case fallings. Monette Warren began with the court at an entry-level job and now is a trainer. When I see something new that's going to challenge me, that's what I need to keep myself content. And I think younger people are more inclined to believe that they can keep up with the technology, with the things that change. I think people in their 20s are more inclined to want things bigger, better, quicker, faster. They figure you're only as marketable as what you did yesterday and if your skills aren't current, you're in deep trouble. And you know what? They're right. They're right. That is the new career paradigm. Stroll says that older workers may value experience and seniority more, but today's younger staff have a different perspective on security. That's why when they consider employers, they're going to consider which employment opportunity is going to give me the best opportunity to build my skills and continue to be marketable. Upgrading skills can work for both employees and the court. We try and train people into other jobs so that we can keep them within the organization, cross-train them, that type of thing. Docketing supervisor Joni McCauley manages a staff ranging in age from their early 20s to mid-50s. This is the first step in our progression towards the automated magistrate-minute orders. Different things motivate different people and so you have to be able to identify what motivates people at different stages in their life and then offer them those kind of opportunities to keep them interested. Neil Stroll believes that attitudes such as that will foster loyalty. I also think that members of Generation X are loyal to people. If they think that the manager is a good manager, it's an authentic person who genuinely cares about them and is interested in their welfare and their success. I think those people will be loyal to that manager. You also will probably need to keep this under seal until the judge decides. Oh, okay. Do I pull that number from the civil deck or from the criminal deck? You're actually going to pull it from the habeas deck. Oh, from the habeas deck. That's right, exactly. She's one of the nicest supervisors I've ever worked with. She's very knowledgeable about her job. She's very professional at the same time. She can be very fair and fun. If my supervisor trusts me enough to give me new projects and trusts that my action on those projects will be worthwhile and gives me the liberty to move on those thoughts, actions, initiatives, then I find that rewarding. Stroll says that there's another way to create loyalty. Managers who can inspire members of Generation X with a really great idea that intrigues them, they'll find that those folks will be in fact loyal to that idea. Mark Garth was hired to create the bankruptcy court's websites by clerk Barry Lander. He's the kind of guy who likes to see high tech stuff at work and so I can deliver that. I said anything you can imagine I can do. But Garth isn't in Generation X. Well, Stroll is emphatic that successful managers don't stereotype. There are lots of people of any generations who totally contradict the stereotype. You don't want to get locked into it. You don't go around thinking to yourself, oh, I'm a boomer or I'm a member of this generation. That's way down on the list of identity statements we make about ourselves. Treat them as unique individuals and you're always going to be ahead of the curve. As we've just seen, the challenge of managing today requires an awareness of what motivates employees. In other words, managers today need both awareness and leadership skills. One way the federal judicial center helps develop such skills is through the federal court manager leadership program. The first group in the program met recently at the FJC in Washington for their final session. Let's take a look. The federal court manager leadership program brings together managers and staff from district bankruptcy and appeals courts. Fran Toller is the program's director. She says that decentralized control of courts has brought many changes. To give leaders in the court the kinds of decision-making skills, the kind of interpersonal skills and the kinds of challenges that will prepare them to lead in their court units. During a two-and-a-half-year period, the program includes two group meetings, independent study, and a self-directed problem-solving project in each participant's court unit. And I'm going to help myself and the organization grow with that knowledge. What we have learned is that people are actually saving money as a result of some of the things that they have implemented in their courts. They've improved processes. In the early stages of the program, each participant completed a rigorous self-evaluation that included honest feedback from the staff they manage. You have to be able to relate to other people. You need to have followers in order to be a leader. During this final week of the program, participants also reported on their temporary duty assignment projects. My project was on employee recognition. Tolar says the idea is to learn from someone with whom one isn't normally in contact. Take your experience and learn from it. You know, stretch your thinking. Talk to other people. Don't be limited by your own experience. Lisa Ball wanted to know how the United States Military Academy at West Point develops leadership abilities. What they feel is the first step on the path is to realize all that you don't know and then open yourself up to the possibility of learning what you can become. The most important thing that I've learned in the federal court manager leadership program is that leadership training is a lifelong commitment. John Brubaker's position as Chief Deputy Clerk gave him his first opportunity to lead an automation department. For his project, he surveyed how other courts deal with automation issues. Another thing that has helped me out on is I've really started to look at my world differently. Any time I go somewhere, I try to think of that as an opportunity for learning more and getting ideas for my court. We were struggling with the issues of priorities and organizational type issues, and this program has given me some good ideas which has helped put us right on track in those areas. Virginia Hare wanted to improve communication between automation departments and court libraries. Another one of my recommendations was that probation and bankruptcy and district court automation should be consolidated. We are in the process of that. I think the leadership program as a whole increases your self-confidence, your ability to do things, your responsibility to take actions. Probably the most important thing to leadership is the object of the leadership, and that's the people. People who are supposed to be led. Jerry Tarkowski examined how organizations deal with change and isolated the stages of change for his colleagues. There is something which is very insidious and it comes creeping in normally between the present state and the transition state, and that is known as pain. If you look at all the theory and overlook the people component, I think you've done an injustice to the term leadership. Gary McFarlane decided to stay in the leadership program, even though in the midst of it, he was appointed clerk of court. I then made a conscious decision that everything I had done in the program to date had improved me as a court manager and was something that I was committed to finishing, and I'm glad that I have. For all 57 participants, finishing meant a ceremony to reward their work. You are the muscles that hold the system together. If you don't function well, neither do the judges. And the class acknowledged the value they received. It has not only enabled me to grow as a leader in that I've become a leader of vision, mission and integrity. I think on the whole it has broadened my perspective of the court system and allowed me to become more of a team player. For the members of this first class, their certificate is only one part of what they take from the experience. And I have been given the opportunity to focus on specific areas that I know that need improvement to help me advance my own self and my own career. Probably I am more sensitive to the people who have to materialize the program that you're trying to lead them to. I really feel that I am a better person. You know, now I'm thinking more leadership. Now I'm thinking what do I bring back to my court? If you would like more information about FJC leadership programs, you can find it in the purple booklet entitled Programs and Services for Federal Court Personnel. You can also get information on programs by visiting our internet website at www.fjc.gov or our JNET webpage at the address on the screen. I know it's a long one, so we'll show it to you again at the end of today's program. On our first show, we piloted a segment we call Words to Know. It highlights words that conserve to bridge understanding across generations and across work units. Some terms we present will be more technical. Others might be commonly used, but not universally understood. Here with Words to Know is my colleague, Bob Fagan. Welcome to Words to Know. Today we're looking at two words we frequently encounter, bandwidth and URL. Bandwidth may bring to mind the size of your watch, but actually it's the measure of the speed and capacity with which data can be moved over a computer network. Think of a water pipe and the quantity of water it can hold. The bigger the pipe, the more water that can quickly flow through to its destination. But data and text don't flow through pipes. They arrive to us by way of computer modems, T1 lines, cable modems and satellite connections. Each of these have different bandwidths, allowing different speeds of delivering information. Bandwidth is measured in bits per second. A bit is the smallest unit of computerized data. A full page of English text is about 16,000 bits. A 28.8 modem can move 28,800 bits in a second. Photos and video need greater bandwidth to make an image. For example, video conferencing typically uses a transmission rate of roughly 393,000 bits per second. So if a colleague says, we wanted to do some high-resolution graphic animation in a clerk's training session, but we had a bandwidth problem, you can smile and say, I understand your dilemma and this time really mean it. Now let's take a look at URL. Also referred to as URL. Both are correct and they mean Uniform Resource Locator on the World Wide Web. Our Uniform Resource Locator is simply the unique address of a file or resource that you're looking for on the web. The FJC's address for this program is an example of a URL. Let's break down this address into its component parts. It contains the name of the internet application protocol required to access the resource, hypertext, transfer protocol, or HTTP. A domain name that identifies a specific computer on the internet, in this case a computer named <IP_ADDRESS>. The next two components describe the location of the directory in the file. The directory is named docs slash eduprog. The specific file is named court to see. Finally, there's HTML or hypertext markup language. That's the format of the documents found on the web. So much for the mystery of URLs. URLs save you lots of time, especially when you bookmark them, because in just a few seconds, you can go directly to where you want to go without having to search for a website. That's all our time for now, but we'll be back next time with more words to know. The autonomy of the federal court system allows courts to develop innovative practices and procedures that fit their particular locality. A side benefit is that effective and innovative practices can be identified and shared throughout the judiciary. Some of you are pairing up with courts of comparable size to share practices and procedures to increase the efficiency of court operations. In our next segment, we'll see how staff from the New Mexico Bankruptcy Court exchanged effective practices with their colleagues from Nebraska to a well-planned, targeted court visit. A small group of court personnel from the Bankruptcy Court in Nebraska visited colleagues in Albuquerque, New Mexico to examine case-processing procedures in action, which they might wish to implement. We had five visitors from the district of Nebraska, and one of them was in the systems area, but the other four were in the operations area. And we pretty much ran them through intake back here in the case administration area and told them how we operate and we inquired as to things that they do. And I also wanted to see all their networks set up and kind of bounce some ideas off their people in that area. They are using some equipment that I'm looking into to implementing in our network, so that was good to see. I was interested in their quality control procedures and also their telecommuting. Telecommuting is taking a portion of your 40-hour work week and working from your home. It takes a lot of cooperation, a lot of teamwork to be able to do this. And then we gradually just kept adding people and adjusting the schedule and accommodating each other. So, you know, we do what it takes to make it work because it's the best reward or the best incentive we could ask for. I do docketing at home. I audit files, proof work. They have standards they have to meet. It has to be done a certain time. I think they used to have more like a 12-hour turnover from the original time they were filed and on the docket and it's reduced it to three hours basically because they can go in and dock at any time. But I know that we're very pleased with it because it's a win-win situation. In addition to network setup and telecommuting, the Nebraska team examined other procedures. We've been sitting with the case administrators, intake people. We're up visiting with one of the courtroom deputies. Just the ideas that they have in their court and the ideas that we have in ours and the procedures that we use and they use and that they would like to pick up from us and we would like to pick up from them. When I sat with one of the case administrators this morning, I learned a lot about their scanning procedure. With the courtroom, we're interested in the different calendaring procedures that the courtroom deputies use. And you can save time there also. There were a lot of procedures that I looked at that I think we can use to make our office more efficient. I'm a case administrator and there's thousands of case administrators out there and so many of them do things so differently and it's nice to see how they do it. This is the first time, for me, experienced sharing ideas and sharing the telecommuting idea, doing the presentation. I thought it was great because I learned a lot from these people by just telling them well, this is how we do it and you start seeing, gee, why can't we do it that way? If it works for them, why can't we do it? We came to observe the ACE, which is their electronic filing program. I think it'll be wonderful that the pleadings are available to the public immediately and that they can view the entire pleading instead of on the docket just getting a brief description or caption regarding that pleading. The program actually was developed here from one of their computer programmers. I think the whole development of the ACE system is a large challenge, electronic case filing. I think it's good and it's the next step. I know the AO is working on a system similar to the ACE system. Like I say, the last two days have been my first experience with the ACE system. It's really interesting to see what other people do and see if it's things that I can take home and start using their procedures myself to make my job more efficient and to give better customer service because of that. As courts continue to look for ways to help increase efficiency, many new technologies are being piloted and introduced across the judiciary. We hope to bring you educational segments on these tools just as we covered electronic case filing in our first program. Our next segment will give you a quick visual survey of some of these new tools and define and highlight the use of online conferencing. The facade has changed. Once courthouses looked like the Parthenon and now they are edifices of glass and chrome. Yes, the outside is different, but those changes are only part of the story. Just as dramatic are the changes within, especially those made possible by technology, waves of innovations that have swept over the judiciary. Remember when there were telephone operators to connect you and now you speak into voice messaging systems. If you know the extension of the person you are calling, dial it now. If you know the person's name, but not the extension, dial one. When documents were hand carried to the intake counter and now attorneys and litigants file documents using fax and other electronic methods. Now when the public comes to a courthouse looking for information, they may go first to a kiosk. This is the main menu. Touch the picture for the section you would like to search. And second to a human being. And now you don't even have to wait for a hard copy of the court transcript if there's real-time court reporting. In fact, witnesses often don't even have to show up in person for proceedings. And the changes aren't just in the way the court conducts its business. Telecommuting means more and more work can be done from home using a computer. And court employees can now receive training just by walking down the hall to link up with the FJTN. We're going to now look at a very important ingredient of any negotiation. Or link up with an online conference through the JNET right into the FJC conference center. Online conferencing technology allows geographically dispersed participants to meet together in a virtual meeting room from the convenience of their desktop computer anywhere that has access to the JNET at any time during the normal work day. Or at 7 a.m. during lunch or even late at night from home. Online conferencing is a unique method of training. I found it to be very beneficial because you had the opportunity to participate in the training at your leisure. And I say leisure lightly, knowing everyone's working in the court so hard. Just exactly what is online conferencing. Here's how it works. Court employees first log on to the JNET, then enter the address of the FJC's online conferencing home page. Once you arrive at the home page, you can gain access to any conference for which you have registered. Registered participants are provided with a user ID and a password. It's that simple. To add your comments, you type in your response and simply post it into the ongoing conversation. During 1998, a total of 16 online conferences were conducted for court employees. Participants totaled over a thousand. Some were standalone conferences. Others were follow-ups to workshops or as part of a program like the Federal Court Manager Leadership Program. As part of the case management online program, I learned and implemented a procedure from Magistrate Judge Judith Guthrie in Tyler, Texas. I now order initial disclosure in inmate cases and then limit the number of further discovery requests to 10 each. In that way, the inmate gets the information he needs without a lot of excess, and I don't have to rule on so many motions to compel. As a new jury administrator, I obtained a lot of information. Because of the suggestions from this online, we started a calling system for jurors. It saved me hours of telephone work and was a great change. Here in Maine, I've had to write to 535 towns, cities, and other entities in search of jury source lists. Using the online, I was able to get strategies that other districts use to get consolidated lists from their states and counties, and that's valuable information. Since we're heading toward electronic case filing, the information provided by faculty and other courtroom deputies was very valuable. It helped to define how courtroom deputies and others will be affected by the technology. I feel better prepared. I recently participated in the newsletter conference that was held in September. It was a wonderful conference. It had several different lesson plans that were broken down into a verological format. There are some interesting programs coming your way this year. Case flow management for district court courtroom deputies, deputies in charge online, district court chief deputies online, online conference for deputy and assistant circuit executives, and online conference for operation managers on quality issues. Currently running are the courtroom deputies conference on technology. Just give us a call and tell us which conference you'd like more information about. If you'd like more information about upcoming conferences, you can find it in the purple booklet, which will soon be mailed to your court. Or you can access our webpage through the JNET. That address is once again on the screen. Our internet address is www.fjc.gov. And of course you may also get program information from the FJT and Bulletin. And now it's your turn. As you may recall from our first broadcast, we said we'd like to give you a voice on our program. Many of you took advantage of the opportunity to comment on the program and to give us advice. Our first comment comes from Cheryl Loesch in the district of Kansas, who spoke of her staff's reaction to our first show. The staff feels that by seeing what's happening in other courts around the country, it gives local courts ideas for improvement of local practices and processes. It allows courts to utilize the concept that I referred to as case, which stands for copy and steal everything. Why reinvent the wheel? Sheila Boshane from North Dakota had this to say. At the time the first court to court was broadcast in June, we didn't have our satellite downlink installed in our Fargo divisional office, but our headquarters office did. And they were able to tape the program for us and then we viewed it the next day and it turned out really well. The format with the news broadcast just made it so easy to listen to, so easy to get the information from that way. And involving the local court people in the broadcast made it so real. Sheila also had advice for us. It would be very helpful to have a local attorney, a local member of the bar, who's actually using the system to come in and give comments and do a short segment on that. I know one thing I thought of too and just thinking too in the ECF portion of it would be to have some type of a frequently asked questions segment. Our next comment comes from training specialist, Louise Schwarber. First let me say that the exciting practices in the recent court to court is an excellent concept to encourage volunteerism in the community. The program gives judicial employees an opportunity to give to others, to learn from others, counters negative concepts of government workers and positively reinforces good work habits in order to participate. Our final comment comes from clerk of court, Richard Donovan. We wanted to show the electronic case filing segment to our staff. We are not one of those pilot courts so it's not in our power to bring 100 people to visit New York or California so this was a way to bring this into the staff meeting and to address some of the issues that the staff had about electronic case filing. We could see there was a noticeable decrease in their anxiety about this change on the horizon and there was some excitement because they saw that this change not only brought about a change in the way we did case administration but it meant that the change in the way they did their jobs. We are looking forward to the next broadcast of court to court. It's a wonderful augment to our quarterly staff meeting. It brings in all sorts of information from the judiciary on legislation, on innovations that you can't otherwise get. Those were some of the comments we received about the first broadcast. Let me thank those of you who sent in comments. You have a voice in our program. We're listening and we're looking forward to seeing more of you. Before we close today's program, here's the JNET address once again. You can access information about upcoming FJTN programs at this address and find out about other available seminars and educational programs. You can also evaluate today's program using this address. Simply click on court to court and fill out an evaluation online. You may also complete an evaluation at your site and fax or mail it into us. Our fax number is 4088. Your input is very important to developing future programming. So please, let us know of your innovative practices and provide us with topics you'd like us to consider for our show. Be sure to watch the next perspectives program for probation and pretrial services. It airs April 29th and will feature the FJC's upcoming National Sentencing Policy Institute, an on-location report of an innovative approach to expediting the sentencing process and much more. That's court to court for today. On behalf of our staff here at the Federal Judicial Center, I'm Michael Burney. Have a great day.


Spain was really hit by the crisis. Maybe a bit later than in other peers and in other countries around, but I think that the depth of the crisis was even bigger. One of the root causes, in my opinion, of the crisis in the Spanish banking system was that the governance frameworks were not up to speed. The crisis hit and impacted the banking system and the society, but it is true that not all the pieces in the banking industry were affected in the same way. Only those having really good governance arrangements, really high and good underwriting standards and also having a more diversified business model survived and succeeded throughout the crisis. So for me, the first lesson is that the governance is key, the business model is key, and the diversification is key. So here appears the question of the consolidation in the system. Throughout the crisis, for example, I mean the former savings banks, Cajas de Ahorros, almost disappeared from around 50. And now we have only two, but if you add up, let's say, the seven banks that inherited the business of those, we will have only nine, so from 50 to seven. So there has been a big and huge consolidation in the system. Also, the number of FTEs and branches decreased dramatically throughout the crisis by percentages of around 40%. So I think the level of restructuring in the system has been huge. And probably this is one lesson taken after the crisis.


Hey everyone, welcome back to Las Vegas. TheCube is on our fourth day of covering AWS re-invent live from the Venetian Expo Center. There, this week has been amazing. We've created a ton of content, as you know, because you've been watching. But there's been north of 55,000 people here, hundreds of thousands online. We've had amazing conversations across the AWS ecosystem. Lisa Martin, Paul Gillan, Paul, what's your kind of take on day four of the conference? It's still highly packed. Oh, it's still, there's lots of people here. Unusual for the final day of a conference.  We built symmetric software because it's convenient to do so, but asymmetric software actually scales and evolves much better. And that was a conversation starter for a lot of what people are talking about here today, which is how the cloud changes the way we think about building software. Absolutely does. Our next guest, Holger Mueller is, that's one of his key areas of focus. And Holger, welcome, thanks for joining us on theCUBE. Thanks for having me. What did you take away from the keynote this morning? Well, how do you feel on the final day of the marathon, right? We're like at 23, 24 miles, hit the wall yesterday, right? We are going strong, Holger. And of course, you guys, we can either talk about business transformation with cloud or the World Cup. Oh, we can do both. We're down the World Cup. Germany's out, I'm unbiased now. They just got eliminated. What's your check for the US? Spain is out now. What will the US do against Netherlands tomorrow? What's your forecast? The US will win? Two to one. What do you say? Two one? I'm optimistic, but realistic. Three? I think Netherlands will win. Netherlands will win? Two to one. Okay, I'll root for the US. Two, three, one for the US. Okay, root for the US. We are optimistic. Okay, I like that. We'll hope for the best. Tomorrow, you'll see how much soccer it's meant to be. If your prediction was right. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yours was right, right? Cool. Biggest event of the year again, right? Not yet the 70,000 we had in 2019, but it's great to have the energy. I've never seen the show floor going all the way down like this, right? I've never seen that. I think it's a record. Often vendors get the space here and they have the keynote area and the entertainment area and the food area and then there's the exposition, right? This is packed. You don't see the big, empty booths that you often see. Exactly, you know the white spaces and so on. It's a good thing. It's lots of energy, which is great. And today is, of course, the developer day, like we said before, when our focus is a rock star in the developer community, right? Revered visionary on what has been built, right? And he's becoming a little professorial is my feeling, right? He had this moments before too, and it was justifying our AWS moved off the Oracle Database about the importance of data warehouse and structures and why DynamoDB is better and so on. But he had a large part of this too. And this is coming right across the keynotes, right? Adam Slipsky talking about Antarctica, right? Scott against Amunds and what went wrong. He didn't tell us, by the way, often the tech winners will get Scott banked on technology. He had motorized slats, which failed after three miles. So that's not the story to tell the technology. Let everything down. Everybody went back to ponies and hoists. No, maybe it goes back to asynchronous behavior or the way of nature. And yesterday, Swami talking about the bridges, right, the root bridges, right? So how could Werner pick up with his video at the beginning and then talking about space and other things? So I think it's important to educate about event-based architecture, right? And we see this massive transformation, modern software has to be event-based, right? Because that's how things work. And we didn't think like this before. I see this massive transformation in my other research area, not the platforms, but the HR space, where payrolls are being rebuilt completely. And payroll used to be one of the three peaks of ERP, right? You would size your ERP machine before the cloud to financial close, to run the payroll, and to do an MRP manufacturing run of your manufacturing.  Your machine wouldn't be able to do that, right? So it was like, start the engine, start the booster as we are running payroll. And now the modern payroll designs, like you see from ADP or from Siridian, they're taking every payroll relevant event. You check in, time-wise, right? You go over time. You take a day of vacation. And right away, they trigger and run the payroll so it's up to date for you, up to your view. Which in this economy is super important because we have more gig workers, we have more contractors, we have employees who are leaving suddenly, right? The great resignation which is happening. So from that perspective, it's the modern way of building software. So it's great to see Rana showing that.  Takes less resources, gets less committed things. So it's a much more scalable architecture. You can move the events, you can work as synchronously much better. And the biggest showcase, right? What's the biggest transactional showcase for an eventually consistent as a synchronous transactional application? I know it's a mouthful, but we are at Amazon, AWS, Amazon, right? You buy something on Amazon, they tell you it's gonna come tomorrow. They don't know it's gonna come tomorrow by that time because it's not transactionally consistent, right? We're just making every year a P-vendor who lives in transactional world having nightmares, of course. But for them, it's like, yes, we have the delivery to promise, the promise to do that, right? But they come back to you and say, sorry, we couldn't make it, delivery didn't work, and so on, it's gonna be a new day. We are out of a product, right? So these kind of event-based, as synchronous things are more and more what's gonna scale around the world. It's gonna be efficient for everybody. It's gonna be better customer experience, better employee experience, ultimately better user experience. It's gonna be better for the enterprise to build, but we have to know how to build it. So the big announcement was the builder environment to build better eventful applications from today. Talk about, this is the first re-invent, well, actually, I'm sorry, it's the second re-invent under Adam Sillips' game. Adam Sillips, yeah. But it's first year, we're hearing a lot of momentum. What's your takeaway with what he delivered with the direction Amazon is going, their vision? Yeah, I think compared to the Jassy times, right? We didn't see the hockey stick slide, right? With a number of innovations and releases that was done in 2019 too, right? So I think it's a more pedestrian pace, which ultimately is good for everybody because it means that when software vendors go slower, they do less width, but more depth. Depth is what customers need. So Amazon's building more on the depth side, which is good news. I also think, and that's not official, right? But Adam Sillips came from Tableau, right? So he's a BI analytics guy. So it's no surprise we have free data like offerings, right? Security data lake, we have a healthcare data lake, and we have a supply chain data lake, right? Where all, again, the AP vendors who mentioned them are saying, oh my God, Amazon's coming to supply chain, but it's actually data lakes, which is an interesting part. But I think it's not a surprise that someone who comes heavily out of the analytics BI world, on the software side, if I was pitching internally to him, maybe I'd do something which he's familiar with. And I think that's what you see in the major announcing of his keynote on Tuesday. Yeah, I mean, speaking of analytics, one of the big announcements early on was Amazon was trying to bridge the gap between Aurora and Redshift, and setting up for continuous pipelines, continuous integration. Seems to be a trend that is common to all database players. I mean, Oracle is doing the same thing, SAP is doing the same thing, MariaDB. Do you see the distinction between transactional and analytical databases going away? It's coming together, right? Certainly coming together from that perspective, but there's a fundamental different starting point, right? And I was a big idea part, right? The universal database, which does everything for you in one system, whereas the suite of specialized databases, right? Oracle is one of the classic Oracle databases in the universal database camp. On the other side, you have Amazon, which built a database. This is one of the first few Amazon re-invents as my 10th, where there was no new database announced. So it was always add another one. I think they have enough. It's a great approach, they have enough, right? So it's a great approach to build something quick, which Amazon is all about. It's not so great when customers want to leverage things, and ultimately, which I think with Salipsky, AWS waking up to the enterprise saying, I have all this different database, and what is in them matters to me. So how can I get this better? So no surprise, between the two most popular databases, Aurora and RDS, they're bringing together the data with some out-of-the-box parts. I think it's kind of like silly when Swami's saying, hey, no ETL. There shouldn't be an ETL from the same vendor, right? There should be data pipes from that perspective anyway. So it looks like on the overall value proposition database side, AWS is moving closer to the universal database on the Oracle side, right? Because if you lift, of course, the universal database under the hood, you see, well, there's different database there, different part there, you do something there, you have to configure stuff, which is also the case, but it's one part of it, right? So with that shift, talk about the value that's going to be in it for customers, regardless of industry. Well, the value for customers is great because when software vendors, platform vendors go in depth, you get more functionality, you get more maturity, you get easier ways of setting up the whole things, you get more ways of maintaining things, and you ultimately get low TCO to build them. It is super important for enterprise because here, this is the developer cloud, right? Developers love AWS. Developers are scarce, expensive, might not be one to work for you, right? So developer velocity, getting more done with the same amount of developers, getting less developers getting more, is super crucial, super important. So this is all good news for enterprise, banking on AWS, and then providing them more efficiency, more automation out of the box. Some of your customer conversations this week, talk to us about some of the feedback. What's the common denominator amongst customers right now? Customers are excited. First of all, like first event again in person, large, right? People can travel, people meet each other, meet in person. They have a good handle around the complexity, which used to be a huge challenge in the past because people said, do I do this? I know so many CXOs are saying, yeah, I want to build, say, something in IoT with AWS. The first reference, build it like this. The next reference, build it completely different. The third one, build it completely different again. So now I'm doubting if my team has the skills to build things successfully because will they be smart enough like your team? Because there's no repetitiveness, and that repetitiveness is gonna be very important for AWS to come up with some higher packaging and version numbers, right? But customers like the depth message. They like that things are working better together. They're not missing the big announcement, right? One of the traditional things of AWS would be, and they made it even proud as system Jesse was saying this. We look at the IT spend, and we see something which is like high margin for us and not served well, and we announce something there, right? So quick side of work spaces where all these items where AWS went after traditional IT spent and had an offering. We haven't had this in 2019. We didn't have it in 2020 last year and didn't have it now. So something is changing on the AWS that's a little bit too early to figure out what, but they're not chewing off as many big things as they used in the past. Right. Did you get the sense? Keith Townsend from the CTO advisor was on earlier, and he said he's been to many reinvents as you have, and he said that he got the sense that this is Amazon's chance to do a victory lap, as he called it, that this is a way for Amazon to reinforce the leadership cloud and really kind of establish that nobody can come close to that. Nobody can compete with that. I don't think that's at all. I mean, love Keith is a great guy, but I think that's the mindset at all, right? So, I mean, Jesse was always saying it's still the morning of the day in the cloud, right? They're far away from being done. They're obsessed about being right. They do more with analysts. We think we got something right and I like the passion from that perspective. So I think Amazon's far from being complacent. And the area which is the biggest bit, right? The biggest, the only thing where Amazon truly has thundered, it always thundered is the AI space, right? So 2018, Ben Affogles was doing more technical stuff that, oh, this is all about linear regression, right? And Amazon didn't start to put algorithms on silicon, right? And they have a three, four trail and that didn't announce anything new here behind Google who's been doing this for much, much longer with the TPU platform. So, they're keenly aware. They now have three, or they have two of their own hardware platforms for AI. They support the Intel platform. They seem to be catching up in that area. It's very hard to catch up on hardware, right? Because there's release cycles, right? And there's the volume they're just talking about the largest models that we have right now to do with our language models. And Google is just doing a side note of saying, oh, we supported 50 less or 30 less, not a little spoken languages, which I've never even heard of because they're underbanked and under supported and here's a language model, right? And I think it's all about a little bit the organizational DNA of a company. I'm a strong believer in that. And if you remember, Amazon comes, AWS comes from the retail side, right? Their rollout of data centers follows the retail strategy, open secret, right? But the same thing as the scale of the AI is very, very different than if you take a look over at Google where it makes sense of the internet, right? The scale right away is the solution which is a good solution for some on the DNA of an AWS. Also, Microsoft Azure is good there, has no chance to even get off the ship of that at Google, right? And this lead is with Google and it's not getting smaller, right? We didn't hear anything, I mean, so much focused on data. Why do they focus so much on data? Because data is the first step for AI. If AWS was doing a victory lab, data would have been done. They would own data, right? They would have a competitor to BigQuery Omni from the Google side to get data from the different clouds. There's crickets on that topic, right? So I think they know that they're catching up on the AI side, but it's really, really hard. It's not like in software you can't acquire someone. They could acquire Nvidia, right? But that's not a good idea, right? So you can't, there's no shortcuts on the hardware side. As much as I'm a software guy and love software and don't like hardware, it's always a pain, right? There's no shortcuts there. And there's nothing which I think gets a new, new attenuum instance. Of course, certainly, but they're not catching up. The distance is the same, yep. One of the things is funny. One of our guests, I think it was Tuesday. It was, it was right after Adam's keynote. Said that Adam Slipsky stood up and on stage and talked about data for 52 minutes. It was timed, 52 minutes. Huge emphasis on that. One of the things that Adam said to John Furrier when they were able to sit down a week or so ago in an event preview was that CIOs and CEOs are not coming to Adam to talk about technology. They want to talk about transformation. They want to talk about business transformation. Talk to me in our last couple of minutes about what CEOs and CEOs are coming to you saying, Holger, help us figure this out. We have to transform the business. So we advise, I'm going to quote our friends at Gardner. One's the Type A company. So we'll use technology aggressively, right? So take everything in the audience of a grain of salt. It's not the followers of the laggards and so on. So for them, it's really the cusp of doing AI, right? Getting that data together. It has to be in the cloud. We live in the era of infinite computing. The cloud makes computing infinite, both from a storage, from a compute perspective, from an AI perspective, and then define new business models and create new best practices on top of that. Because in the past, everything was finite on premise, right? We talked about the appeasement size. Now in the cloud, it's just the business model to say, do I want to have a little more AI? Do I want to run a little more? Will it give me the insight in the business? So that's the transformation that is happening really. So bringing your data together, this is like conversation data, but not for bringing the data together. There's often a big win for the business for the first time to see the data. AWS is banking on that with the supply chain product, as an example. So many disparate systems bringing them together. Big win for the business. But the win for the business ultimately is when you change the paradigm from the user showing up to do something, to software doing stuff for us, right? We have too much in this operator paradigm. If the user doesn't show up, doesn't find the click, doesn't find where to go, nothing happens. It can't be done in the 21st century, right? Software has to look over your shoulder, understand the one for you, autonomous self-driving systems. That's what CXOs were future looking when we talked to Comfort to AWS and all the other cloud partners. Got it. Last question for you. We're making a sizzle reel on Instagram. If you had like a phrase, like a 30 second pitch that would describe, reinvent 2022 in the direction the company's going, what would that elevator pitch say? 30 second pitch. Yeah. AWS is doing well, is providing more depth, less breadth, making things work together, is catching up in some areas. It has some interesting offerings like the healthcare offering, the security later lake offering, which might change some things in the industry. It's staying the course and it's going strong. Beautifully said, Holger. Thank you so much for joining Paul and me. Might have been too short. I don't know. 10 seconds left over. Absolutely perfect. Thanks for having me. Perfect sizzle reel. We appreciate your insights, what you're seeing this week in the direction the company is going. We can't wait to see what happens in the next year. Thanks for having me. And of course you've been on so many times, we know we're going to have you back. Forwarded. Thank you. For Holger Muller and Paul Gillen, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage.


The world of museums that I come from, traditional boundaries have been thrown wide open. New media technologies are expanding our collecting policies, renewing our curatorial visions and refreshing our relationship with audiences. And my research is focused on a series of experimental interfaces that transform cultural heritage data into narratives of engagement, allowing audiences to rediscover and reinvent ancient cities, cultural practices, and objects. Cultural heritage is under an increasing threat from destructive forces spanning iconoclasm to climate change. And while the annihilation of heritage and its keepers has been with us for thousands of years, it remains one of the most powerful sociocultural and political weapons of our time. Natural disasters are wreaking havoc, and mass tourism is threatening to engulf those places that we hold most dear. Digital documentation technologies have a role to play in the sustainability of our most precious legacies. Laser scanning, for example, collects billions of points to represent places such as these heads at Mount Rushmore. We can create precious objects in 3D and peer inside to see what we could not see before. And we can scan art in a way that allows us to zoom into the tiniest brushstroke and see more than the naked eye can see. We can also focus our attention on intangible heritage using new panoramic video technologies and the technologies of motion capture and motion over time studies. We've designed and built about 15 large-scale immersive systems, and they are expanding upon the perennial visualization strategies of the panorama, the hemisphere, and the panoptic. They're looking in. Most recent machine is 120 million pixels in 3D, so it's three times higher resolution than anything else that exists at the moment. These machines offer us strategies for multi-sensory engagement and give us powerful ways to reformulate narrative in a digital context. They emphasize human-to-human as well as human-to-machine interaction. And as interfaces to cultural heritage data, they necessarily ask us to examine our notions of aura, authenticity, and authorship. We're going to begin our journey today in the Gobi Desert in northernmost China at the World Heritage Site of the Dong Wang Caves at the nexus of the Silk Road. 492 caves, 45,000 square meters of mural paintings, they are in size and breadth like nothing else in the Chinese-Buddhist world. To give you an insight into how significant these caves are, this is Cave 17, the library cave, 15 cubic meters of manuscripts were found there, and it includes the oldest book in the world, the Diamond Sutra, the earliest known depiction of the Chinese constellations. These caves are under serious threat from a micro-climate change. Large majority of them are closed to public, rising humidity from human traffic is causing the paint to flake off the walls. And the Dong Wang Academy of 600 full-time employees have 90 full-time photographers who are digitizing this entire precinct. It takes three months to image a single cave. We took the laser scan and the texture data from Cave 220 to create pure land inside the Magal Grottoes at Dong Wang. So it's staged in a 360-degree 3D screen, which is 10 meters diameter and 4.5 meters high, and it allows about 30 people a one-to-one scale experience of being inside the cave. It starts with a cave browser of significant caves located above a laser scan of the entire escarpment. We go inside Cave 220 and simulate what it's like to be there now. So if you are to visit Dong Wang, you're usually with about 60 people in a few LED torches. The context of these mural paintings is quite lost. The digital cave is completely navigable. You can fly up to the ceiling. We created high-resolution magnifying glass so you could examine these murals in great detail. This is the sutra of the medicine buddhas on the north wall of the cave. Using the pigment studies from the Dong Wang Academy, layers of paint were reconstructed to give an impression of what it would have originally been like. 32 musicians appear in this painting and all of their instruments were modeled in 3D. And we filmed Beijing Academy dancers to represent the four dancers in the painting in a blue screen studio and inserted their 3D video into this virtual world. It was built as a prototype as a set of strategies for what you might do if you had 492 caves. Already this work has been seen by over a million people and Cave 220 is permanently closed to public. We're connecting two of our 360 systems together over ultra-high speed bandwidth to teach distributed silk road studies. This is part of a larger project, which I'm calling the Internet of Big Machines, which networks large-scale immersive systems worldwide. We took the wireframe from the laser scan and printed on the walls of an exhibition booth again at one-to-one scale and this allows visitors to navigate inside this world, inside the digital model, using this tablet, which is tracked with infrared cameras, uses very high-resolution data and it's a very high-fidelity experience. This interface has three qualities which are quite noteworthy. The first is the way in which it harnesses socialization around a single screen. Socialization is at the core of the museum experience. It's not really about giving everyone their own device. It's actually about harnessing that interaction. It's also a multi-generational interface from young children to middle-aged ladies, grandmother and grandchild. Grandmother abandons the grandchild. And the third phenomena is the one of virtual, virtual tourism. So here we have the wife with the iPad from her handbag filming her husband's experience using the tablet. Philip Kennecott, critic for the Washington Post, said of the 360 system when it was installed at the Smithsonian, at last we have a virtual reality system worthy of inclusion in a museum devoted to the real stuff of art. And this really goes to the heart of the provocation digital masterpiece and that's an issue of aura, among other things. Bruno Latour, philosopher and Alan Lowey, a creator of facsimiles, have argued for a migration of aura from real objects to digital objects. I prefer to talk about it as a proliferation of aura. But whatever your definition, ultra-high fidelity, immersive and virtual experiences have profound and affecting presence of the digital in their own right. Coming from ancient China to historic India, place Hampi is a world heritage site. It is the kingdom of Vijayanara. And this was an artwork which was commissioned for France into a year and subsequently toured the world. Hampi is a vibrant center of contemporary pilgrimage, as well as an extraordinary geological and 60-degree screen, which has at its center a motorized platform. And that rotates a field of view in 360 degrees. The system itself can have about 25 people inside and any member of the public takes the other visitors on a serendipitous journey of discovery through the many wonderful locations at Hampi. On the platform, a microphone is mounted and you can release Sanskrit text into this world which comes from chapter 13 and 37 of the Ramayana to do with the gathering of the monkeys at Kishkinda. Hampi is said to be Kishkinda. It's a very important mythological place. And you enter inside any one of these panoramas. Some of them are augmented with these computer graphic animations of Hindu gods here, Lord Ganesha. These were done by Indian artists and animators. And it was the first stereographic animation ever done in India. The music that you hear is by Dr. L. Subramaniam, who's a kinetic violin superstar. This artwork is now part of a new museum that we built located inside a new cultural precinct, which is only 25 kilometers from the site itself. So next time you find yourself in deep Karnataka, you could go here to visit much more than you'll see when you visit the site. Moving from landscapes and ancient sites to museum collections, we know at most major museums only a fraction of the collection is on display. So Smithsonian is 2%, British Museum is 0.4%, the Museum I work for is 0.8%. So we built a data browser for Museum Victoria, which is 100,000 objects. It's an export from the content management system. And using the metadata, we're able to link all these objects together across 18 different themes. It's a way of networking the narratives of these objects and recombining them in different pathways. Any member of the public can drive this, you can zoom into images, it creates a word or from the description of the object and you can access the original record. The museum owns a 360 system permanently installed in the gallery space. And here you see to the sides this tagging which allows you to traverse amongst these 18 themes. It's got an emergent soundscape based on the collections of the museum. Lidon Lookup is a new artwork done together with 47 indigenous artists from the western desert of Australia. And it algorithmically recombines these circular fisheye paintings, almost perfect fisheye projection. And it's been installed. It's a project for Dome Lab, which is the highest resolution touring full dome in the world. We scanned all of the art at 1,200 dpi and the algorithm uses computer vision to transition between different images in a way that you will never have the same journey twice. It takes 2D canvases and gives them an up tectonic space with an infinite horizon. And it's a highly collaborative work going from very famous artists in the traditions of Namanjira through to emerging and experimental painters. The Living Archive of Hong Kong Kung Fu is a documentation project on an embodied knowledge system. Hong Kong is a reservoir of incredible and tangible heritage, many migrants coming from China in the mid 20th century. The grand masters of these various lineages are dying out, typically the traditions are passed on orally in quite esoteric languages. And this project creates a 4D topology as opposed to the 2D annotations that you see here. We're using extensive motion capture, extensive digital ethnography to capture all of the movements in 3D form. We're also creating importantly a metadata framework that can deal with intangible heritage data documentation and discovery. This is Oscar, his father and his grandfather were famous Kung Fu practitioners and you can see the speed with which he moves. We are using in the tradition of dance annotation or marble notation, creating automatic systems for motion over time, signatures here, the left hand, the right hand, the left foot, the right foot and the dantian points in the center of the body. And the materials are being used for teaching and learning, for serious gaming and also informing robotics. The remaking of the Confucian rights is a project based on extensive academic research undertaken at Qinghua University in China, recreating costumes for rituals that haven't been performed for over 200 years. The actors are well trained and they come down with costumes and utensils to our lab in Hong Kong and we are documenting in a myriad of ways. Here you see object movies of people and it's creating an interactive archive of this material in its finest detail. So it's a highly didactic undertaking which you can then examine everything from ritual movements to costumes to utensils. It's a combination of aesthetics, ideology embodied in the Confucian system. The movements that these people undertake are inscribed in their body. Mechanics is very important. And just by way of conclusion, Illuminating Asia is a world touring show which brings together 10 of our large scale immersive systems with 20 pieces of content. Here you see a digital way finding device and then you pan out through the galleries into the various works. And we hope this will change the nature of the museum going forever. It's combining the aura of the digital with I guess the reemergence of virtual reality. And in the words of UNESCO, awareness of cultural heritage is a cultural emergency. And these kinds of works are really trying to expand people's understanding of places they may never see or that we must protect. So I'll leave it there. Thank you very much.


Imaging the internal structure of faults remains challenging using conventional seismometers. Here, the authors use fiber-optic cables used for telecommunications to obtain strain data and identify faults and volcanic dikes in Iceland and suggest that fiber-optic cables could be used for hazard assessment. This article was authored by Philippe Jausset, Thomas Rainsch, Trond Ryberg and others.


Greetings from America's Navy and the John C. Stennis strike group. We are conducting combat operations in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. A carrier strike group is all about power. America's power, combat power, and the power of our great sailors. Out here on the deck of the USS John C. Stennis, an Imitz-class carrier, the most advanced class of warships the world has ever known, this is power. Advanced jets from Carrier Air Wing 9, that's power. But our real power is the people you see in the background. Hardworking sailors, sailors doing their job each and every day for America. Sailors doing their job each and every day for their families, for their careers, to make the world a better place. That's the honor of serving out here and that's the power of a carrier strike group. I'm proud of each and every one of you, the families and friends that support us out here. I'm especially proud of our sailors. We've done hundreds of sorties in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. We've done them safely and effectively. We are making a difference. That's America's Navy. Thanks for your support.