Hello, what's pop? We are on twitch. We are not To believe it like kind of subscribe turn your post notification bells cuz this is This is this is YouTube What's this behind me man, this is the little one live man, this is if you miss any lives from YouTube or you miss any lives in twitch They go on here Well, we do got the patreon Definitely forgot to record for this for tomorrow, but It's like 1 a.m. Right now, but you know, let's see if I can get it done And we got the discord Of the links to all three of you are down in the description man Let's get into the video though cuz it's a long one This is HMP Frankfurt Franklin sorry If I'm not mistaken as monster mansion, I don't that's what the it's a very severe secure environment HMP Franklin Everything's just there's nowhere to go apart from the jungle that you are in You'll be banged up with some of the most sadistic criminals in Britain people who Evil Or walk the corridors with a triple killer. He is a manipulative Sly unfeeling monster. You might even come face-to-face with a man who has murdered children because of Huntley's Fame and not righty other prisoners were jealous of that That's an inmate in here. I can't say that type of behavior somebody that kids Other prisoners were jealous of them because of the fame and notoriety. I don't think jealousy is the word You'll need to watch your back You were literally in extreme dying to be in sir Come on, start Enter the moment you're locked Mark it in so It's a lot of terror, but not of care There's some Franklin in the beautiful countryside of County Durham Like a high-security prison HMP Franklin So this is Franklin prison where I was when I was there 21 year old This is where you come down in the wagon and you go in through the big gates in a reception Don't know if it's still got it as you go in it's got engraved welcome. You sound like Leslie from Benidorm No offense. That's just That's how I Figure out who people where people are from because I can Because of the shows I'd be watching to hell Built in 1983 Franklin's been expanded three times and now it's sprawling wings house 840 prisoners For your view on a typical cell is just a big metal fence There's no greenery or anything inside. Everything's just grayer dark and miserable Nobody has ever escaped from real prison tight shit Franklin's his category a the highest security rating If you went over that wall There would be a big gap in between and then you've got the big metal fences, and then you've got the barbed wire I think that's how every prison here in America is You got the wall like a mold in between or for y'all is like Then another big metal gate with by wire if you get over the fence then you've got the wall which is never going to happen It's all fences and gates. It takes a while to get from the main gate to the top wings where where I worked Franklin's viewer wings are built in a distinctive L shape allowing guards to keep a better eye on the prisoners Because there's two spurs on the wing and they've got their office in the middle There's a big metal gate so you can lock it so you can't get onto the other spur On each spur of the wing arose a 40 to 60 single occupancy cells Prisoners are locked inside these at night and a certain times each day This is not a joke. This is a very severe secure environment Closed in there's nowhere to go apart from the jungle that you are in Surrounded by mostly a bunch of killers See when I think of prisons, this is what I'm thinking of You know I'm saying not that Not in Finland somewhere Where they rehabilitating you for for for real life my bad, I've been like like for real Like a prison for me should look like a prison what you do inside the prison though Okay, cool You know I'm saying you can rehabilitate we can offer everything that you should be offering to get people back on their feet But as far as aesthetically prisons look like prisons man instead of hotels like Behind the high walls here is some of Britain's most natural as long as you're not violating nobody basic human rights Criminals some of the people that are inside of here mean like you've had the likes of Yorkshire Ripper was in here He's just died recently from here.  I'm looking for good documentaries. You feel me and they just Willing them off right now. Where's my notes? Because y'all be thinking I'll be really you know put an effort in but I do low-key Go back all the way. Who is this Ian Huntley? Ian. There's some really sick horrible men in there Delroy Grant the night stalker a fist Levi Belfield killer of Millie Dowler Yeah, Levi Belfield Only man in Britain to have two whole life terms Michael at a belage. Oh the killer of Lee Rigby. It's home to Wayne Cousins the killer police killer Of Lee Rigby, it's home to Wayne Cousins But at a belage. Oh the killer of Lee Rigby It's home to Wayne Cousins the killer police killer of Sarah Everard people who You just know just feel evil if they've been notorious and what you deem as notorious in the last 20 years Then I would have met them murder robbery Violence drug dealings forsters Burglars aggravated burglars robbers murderers ganglame figures You know you said the wrong things to the wrong person on the wrong day You could end up with a pencil stuck in your eye or you know a six inch nail stabbed into your throat I don't think anyone was prepared Mentally For the difficulties they might confront dealing with so many highly dangerous men This is giving me real Florida penitentiary type Man, shout out to the first responders man.  That's how I'd appreciate that gangie, please I said if I asked nicely Get a better response outside If you've got a serious enough sentence to be sent to Franklin your first day will Beginning with a rude awakening Boracat Right, I mean you're on the move On the move Well, you're going on a long trip now You're then locked into a category A van If you're high-risk or exceptional you'll have police outriders or you'll have a helicopter Which will follow you all the way to your next prison The sweatboxes like that They look cubicle You're only clue on where you're going is trying to get a glance of road signs and where you're headed You'd be handcuffed from the van to the reception area First thing on arrival here this thing like Do the fuck of these you know what I mean like They'll be stripped searched to make sure that they brought no contraband from the previous chill totally High-security seen the screws standing all over with the dogs got their guard dogs now Everyone's out on the wings like looking at you to see who's coming the fresh people coming in on the wing People will be curious about who you are. They will be particularly curious about what you're in prison for You'll be given a bed pack So you better tell and all that you get your vape or your own vape And you're banged up behind the door As you come through the door put your hope aside, mate because anything you're hoping for is not gonna bleed in that Before you get settled there's something you should know about Franklin's screws They just can't open themselves and it's in their caulk chair I still have to fight in them On it as much as we were so I'm just going off quite frequently. No offense. What does this keep coming on? No offense. I've seen some prisons documentaries with like literal gang-stop employees that work as guards as the cashiers You know I'm saying like that tight old principles from high schools They have some real guards in Franklin, huh? You've only just arrived at HMP, Franklin a category a prison in County Durham And already all the prisoners will be warning you about some of the screws here When I worked at Franklin that was quite a lot of ex-military there. There was ex ex Pit workers this group of local hard guys Assume of the most feared pears in the prison system They thought we want something tough and no in the prison system He looked like Like he ready to give you a miserable time Anytime somebody got a haircut and they fade not blended on the side You know they a menace They saw we want something tough and northern so we'll put it in Durham When I was in the 90s a lot of them ex-almy and I they used to tear up they'd like to tear up. They still had to fight in them So they do this on it as much as we were so it's going off quite frequently I've experienced it and I've seen and they deal with people sometimes. They just can't help themselves and It's in their culture Franklin employs over 700 people Including prison officers and all of them have the same attitude to the job the staff in there who put on the uniform and And feel like I have to be this aggressive Kind of say I'm in charge because I'm wearing this uniform and and that makes your life really hard if you're a firm but fair prison officer who who Understand the environment you're working in that could make your life difficult Prison regimes in the north and the attitude of prison Like the police the regular police. I believe there's good in everybody's you know good in every job There's good people in every job, but there's also the people that make it tough everybody else Officers in the north was far more reactionary An anti-prisoner than it was in the south. It's got a reputation for being run by what people called the Geordie mafia Being big on steroids big on violence. They don't like southerners If you're a prisoner of color arriving at Franklin prison in the 80s 90s and early 2000s Former inmates claim that there were rumors that would make you especially nervous so Franklin itself has the reputation of Don't stuff up there being worse than the rest by way of Not liking anything else like the color of white If you were a London prisoner arriving in Franklin the hostility you face some stuff was quite bad anyway But if you were blackened from London, then you were literally in extreme danger of being seriously assaulted front and get started reputation for being a racist jail just because we don't have a lot of Diversity among stuff, but that's just the region we work in I can't sit and say that There isn't a problem with racism in the prison service Supposed that ignorance goes an all walks life What I can say is from 2006 or 2010 I never witnessed that at Franklin You never witnessed it or you didn't choose to witness it Or you look the other way Recent report on Franklin didn't make any direct reference to racism the chief inspector of prison said The promotion of equality and diversity Needed improvement and required greater prioritization That's clear cut my boy That might as well say this this to me might as well say, yeah, it's a little bit of racism in here We trying though And it's not just the screws who are allegedly hostile you've got the local criminals to worry about too So the young guys wasn't used to interacting with a lot of black people You get into arguments with them and all that they're quick to bring colour into it or something stupid Because they never really know no better. No kind of shaved heads bodybuilders The two is a type of Franklin prisoner. I would not be telling the truth if I didn't say that Franklin is to some extent and always has been since he was envisaged a powder cake New prisoner Ricky quickly discovered being from the northeast was an Powder cake Like I've always heard that term used but I never ever knew what it meant exactly I Could go look it up when I rather one of y'all just tell me man for the interaction of it all So like what the way he used it Franklin has always since the beginning of time been a powder cake. What is this? Advantage these were the most powerful groups of Franklin Obviously you've got the Mackams Which is the Sun and lads and you've got the Jordy's who's from Newcastle?  We're down there. I'm coming down that road there driving through the gates. I had a bit of a like an excitement about is like Just waiting to see what actually is behind them walls. You know, I was like I wasn't scared I was like looking forward to being in there to be honest. He was insane. You weren't scared. I wasn't scared. I was Insane He was looking forward to this In 2007 Two local guys around the same age found themselves arriving at Franklin. One was a prisoner The other was a screw Ricky and Craig both grew up in County Durham in the 90s Hanging out in similar places and attending similar schools But they were going to end up on very different sides in Franklin Privacy being in the military before I joined the prison service So for me it was a natural progression going from one uniform job into another uniform job People were quite surprised when I said I wanted to go there because of what they heard about the place Ricky had slushed a man with a machete. He was sent to Franklin for GBH with intent The main set that I was in I was In a sick way enjoying it Craig had family inspiration for joining Franklin screws Dad had been in the prison service for 30 years me mammals in the prison service. My sister was in the prison service And Ricky had a broken from a long line of prison guards Like I ain't never heard that honestly Family history that set him on the path to being banged up here Me dad had spent a lot of years in jail We um before I was born he'd spent about 14 years in prison And they used to tell me prison stories and stuff when I was a kid That's what it sound like it's coming next on a young age 78 year old like I always wanted to go to prison It's crazy I never really had any role models like good role models growing up. I always looked up there Gangsters and stuff like I didn't obviously getting in there and being surrounded by them. I was like loving it really But like going to prison to meet him is like crazy you ain't want to do what they was doing on the free in the free world obviously you was on some some debauchery of stuff but When he sold all slam behind him the young Ricky was in a strange frame of mind for a man who had just lost his freedom See on the first night here When I was in me pad by me cello was looking out at the window And I'd be music on because obviously the lads could give us a high-five in that No, but I was listening to some sort of a dance music And I was just like looking out onto the yard looking up at the metal fence and that I was just like Popping away to the music and just thinking I've made it Oh, hey, this is one of the best people I've ever seen in a documentary He got to do he got the Frank he got the Franklin HMP. Hey, he got the Frank. He got the HMP Franklin And said I made it. I'm finally I did it. I did it We made it. I'm here now. Look at me now What's some elements in the prison service that reflected the army because there was a lot of ex-military stun the prison service at that time So it was it was nice still having that sort of regimental aspect of it Just take pride in your uniform.  He said he was going to cook as a steak. I was a bit of a welcome meal Prisoners in Franklin could buy ingredients and cook their own meals if they want to avoid prison slop We're seasoning up the steak And there was a couple of odds in the kitchen Yeah, one of them was starting washing these dishes. Well, I was looking over and I just seen this pan of hot oil bubbling away And I got a look and I thought I wonder what's going on there because just seeming a bit out of place a big pan of hot oil bubbling away Yeah, I'm and some lad came in picked it up took it over the back reseller burning bad It burnt him bad You know what it's not a nice sight, you know, it's the worst thing you can do to someone It was only his second day in Franklin and new prisoner Ricky had already witnessed an inmate being attacked with boiling oil This inmate turned out to be one of the jail's most notorious residents Prisoners not got their hot oil tip on and was there and Darren Barrett And he was the head of al-qaeda in the yoke here Well, I mean I want to say Darren Barrett is a Darren Barrett I'm getting all of High-profile terrorist fought to be senior in al-qaeda He plotted to slaughter thousands of civilians in the uk and us And details of his narrowly thwarted plans horrified the public He traveled to the united states and started picking targets major targets for terrorist attacks um The world bank international monetary fund new york stock exchange city group and he was planning to use dirty bombs To destroy each of these targets He also simultaneously was planning an attack on the london underground, which he was going to flood Hope it killed many thousands of people Caught and found guilty in 2006 Barrett was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 40 years Barrett is sent to frankton after his conviction has put in there a minimum term of 40 years Like can we give life without parole like is there not a such thing as life without parole in the uk Among the ordinary prison population He was an extremely dangerous man softly spoken Surprisingly intelligent And utterly deadly If you're guilty of terrorist offensives The authorities need category a security to keep you under lock and key Making this prison an ideal choice One of the things that franklin Has got is a lot of terrorists At least 25 at any one time in march 2022 There were 159 terrorists in prison Classed as islamist extremists and 57 categorizes extreme right wing Many of the most infamous and deadly a house of frankland the prison is home to My court at the belage. Oh the killer of lee ribby With a machete in the car has she obeyed? Who helped to plan the manstarina bombing in 2017? frankland also includes the murderer of joe What what did they drop in? Manstarina bombing in 2017 Frank majesty Who helped to plan the manstarina bombing in 2017? frankland also includes the murderer of joe cox the mp tomas mayor craig remembers dealing with notorious terrorists as part of his job at frankland when they started coming in in 2005 six seven eight that they were kind of well-known individual terrorists or terrorists who you'd who you'd heard of for weeks and months on the news And then they were stood in front here And so it was quite an interesting time and if any of the names they seen are standing out to y'all which I know they are like Say them in the comments And you should do a reaction To find something on this person find something on that person that he mentioned Seeing how the prisoners were going to deal with that frankland is a microcosm of society And society in britain changed in the as a result of the 7 7 bombings in 2005 If anyone now doubted what we were seeing was a coordinated series of terror attacks Confirmation came just 10 minutes later A number 10 bus passing through tabastock square was torn apart by a bomb placed near the back on the upper deck It was full of people recently evacuated from russell square tube station We became more suspicious more frightened Yes, we'd had terrorists before but not like this Not in quite the same way Honestly, I haven't heard of none of these things that he's talking about Like that 7 7 bombing None of these I think I heard an inn huntley But I ain't really heard of none of the land in the mid to late 2000s Attitudes towards prisoners in for terrorism would become an increasingly hostile Yeah, don't they have don't they normally had their own wing Obviously don't like what they're in force with it then they do become a target The attack on barrett rocked the jail New prisoner ricky could sense the things were about to escalate And about two weeks after another terrorist that was left on the wing by himself Obviously, he was probably feeling vulnerable thing that he was going to get attacked So he's walked over to one of the Geordie lads that was just sitting there eating his tea And went up behind him and just went like that and tipped the pan over his head But this went over his full head all down his face And his head just blew up like a watermelon And this fresh attack wasn't to be the last of the so-called juggins at frankland It's called in some old world in here It just seemed to be popping along as prisoners to throw hot oil over themselves And it kind of became the gore to assault originally you know in the old days It was made for sex offenders for somebody to deal with to do it has to be serious or has to be a hit Prison officer craig got used to dealing with scolded prisoners Who had scheme flaking off from attacks with boiling oil or water There was one prisoner that I saw as it was actually worse than what I when I bravely thought We just put him in a cold shower And his back his chest his face his head was all was all really badly burned I think that that might have been actually the last incident. I think then after that they did start panning oil in the prisons But the chain After the first innocent I mean after the first incident it should have stopped The vents set off by the attack on dirren barot were only just getting started A terrible thing to do to what I believe as a peaceful man as I know him to be honest If you're gonna harm somebody that A lot of people are close to People are gonna get young Most of frankland's muslim population have nothing to do with terrorism 99 percent of muslims in prison are not in on terrorism charges The scene fellow muslims being attacked by white prisoners sparked a conflict of a race and religion So when muslims get attacked, you know, there's gonna be uh, there's gonna be a comeback for it. It's as simple as that The atmosphere on the wing when you walk in man, they gotta be some type of mitigating circumstances though. Like I get it like In these types of prisons, you got to roll with who you roll with and keep that like that For protection purposes, but come on now Look what bro was plotting And that sounds strange, but you can sometimes you can walk on the wing And that's you can just fail that you can fail that tension and it did come to a point where The whole wing went up everyone was fighting each other was like the muslim lads Against the white lads and it went off like big-style With it being an l-shaped wing on f-wing obviously we were On this side of the wing whilst it was happening on the other side Um, and everyone started running towards the gates, but the screws locked the gates so nobody could get through And obviously you could just hear all the commotion the alarms were going off the screws were running on the wing It was just going off for about half an hour And I was glad I was running this side out the way The screws eventually regained control of the wing But the tensions and conflicts sparked by the attack on baro Were lasting So then it develops it becomes us versus them the non-believers and the believers and And one of the most loathed men in frankland chooses a side in this conflict Perhaps hoping for protection He's got no respect in the system whatsoever And to make it even worse. He's a big lump of a key. So which makes him more of a target for people In frankland in frankland prison in the 2000s There were growing tensions over race and religion And prisoners were picking sides Yami was a prisoner who was serving 12 years for robbery with an imitation firearm This sentence saw him being juggled between different category a prisons Including stints at frankland He found himself inspired by the muslim community. He got 12 years for imitation firearm Is that the same sentence? It would have been it wasn't with a real one, right? Or brotherhood he met inside But one of the most loathed men in the prison system was about to enter the fray A lot of the muslim brotherhood I got on quite well with were coming in slowly And then quickly into the ka system And I converted Some of the brothers that I met I took a shine to you You know some of the brothers were passing me material had these and stuff like that 16 percent of frankland's population are muslim And a growing number of these are converts like yami He found the appeal of islam was that it offered a spiritual structure for tackling some of his issues I had addiction problems at that time I thought the routine And the way that it's designed islam as well as loving our alarm of course I thought well I'll convert there take it really seriously and see if if that can cure me And it was probably my best nine months in the kites of clean time to be honest. So it did help me For other converts there may be more cynical motivations for finding islam When Levi belfield was sent to frankland in 2011 almost immediately He uh became a muslim inside frankland belfield goes by the name yusef raheem Belfield is responsible for three murders and one attempted murder The murder of amelie de la grange the attempted murder of kate sheedy the murder of marshal banonal and the murder of millie dowler Belfield is one of the very few men in frankland and in the prison system as a whole To be serving a whole life sentence He'd already been given this when he was linked to the murder of millie dowler coward crumbs So I call him most crimes cowards Because you're taking advantage of a vulnerability But for people like belfield because you know that you can't lose that He is a manipulative sly Unfailing monster And if you've ever had the pleasure or displeasure of being within a foot of him You'd know exactly what I meant. He's 20 stone.  He said he took stone.  Can't play them type of guy. I don't know what that is He's very intimidating especially when you see his temper Yammy and Levi's paths crossed in a number of category a prisons And yami formed an instant view on belfield A fearful looking man, right? I hated him lately. I hated these guts on site I was in a presence of real evil So why would a violent and unrepentant man want to convert to a religion that preachers peace? normal criminals who haven't the faith of islam Will no way hosey will be accepting him and inviting him around for a cup of tea to their cells Levi belfield wanted to convert to islam just to be Feel wanted and be part of the muslim Gang sort of speak he becomes one of them and then he's then got protection from them And belfield is certainly in need of protection Other prisoners are disgusted by him He's got no respect in the system whatsoever And to make it even worse He's a big lump of a geezer which makes him more of a target for people because A lot of guys want to do someone like him, but they don't want to do some weak sniveling geezer Convert Belfield now had to be taken to and from the mosque for services Which meant ordinary prisoners like yami could get close to one of the most loved men in the prison system He said a couple of goodbyes to a couple of brothers And then I made my move as I was going past he turned his head that way looked at me and the screws were standing there like waiting for him to stop holding court and get back to where we're going So as he turned around faced me I headbotted him on the bridge of his nose and blood started pouring out of his nose His face went purple. He never got no no chance of retaliation And I carried on moving away Back to my wing Whatever they might privately feel him He just said he did a drive by head, but That's what I just heard. That's how I just Hear that's how I just decoded that he did a drive by head, but and I carried on Purple he never got no That it boring out of his nose His face went purple. He never got no no chance of retaliation Uh, and I carried on moving away That's exactly what I thought whatever they might privately feel about it at hmp frankland Screws are responsible for the welfare of some of the most notorious and hated men in britain The child killer ian huntley was transferred to frankland in 2008 and instantly made a name for himself as a tricky prisoner with huntley sometimes he got He got this thing where he was famous. He kind of had this attitude and he liked to push boundaries sometimes P. O.'s are encouraged to treat volatile huntley with kid gloves But craig went in with a firm approach But I kind of sat me stall out with him straight away I think he's when I went in there He I said huntley. I'm your staff for the day and he was like I'll be referred. It was mr. Huntley and I was like no no It's huntley and you'll call me mr. Wilde and that was that was the end of it Ian huntley is serving a minimum of 40 years for two brutal killings which mortified britain On sunday afternoon in always 2002 two schoolgirls hollywells and jester kachatman Left a bar With you to go to the local shop and so on to buy sweets Yeah, they never returned And to about quarter to nine that evening They were reported missing Within hours of their disappearance police from three forces and hundreds of townsfolk have joined the hunt for holly and jessica Soccer star david beckham appeals for them to come home But by wednesday august the 7th police fear they're dealing with a criminal abduction Huntley invited jessica and holly into the house Supposedly to see maxine who they knew from school It was a lie from the beginning Ian huntley pretended to help with the search for the missing girls Positioning himself as a concerned local resident People have felt in the dark and felt like um, we can't do anything to assist the police We all want to do something but nobody quite knows what And one of the most chilling moments of television i can remember Is when huntley was interviewed outside the house By a sky news reporter Who said you must have been the last person to see them alive? And he says calmly as you can imagine Yes, I probably was how do they seem to you seem fine very cheerful happy chatty I didn't see anything untoward nobody were hanging around You know just seemed like normal happy kids safe and well. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely And you may as it turned out being the last person to actually chat to them before they vanished Yeah, that's what it seems like I think Because they were it was such a poignant picture of the two girls wearing their match to united shirts and uh Which were incidentally found in huntley's residence That it shocked a whole generation of parents Were they was it safe to let their girls walk to the village shop in a cambridge of village? No, I didn't see this one I gotta watch that one That's deep Well, the answer was no He was arrested in fact on the day that their bodies their decomposed bodies Were found in a ditch near raf lake and heath After pretending to help search for the missing girls for 13 days Ian huntley was amassed as their killer And at his trial in 2003 He was handed two life sentences Prison officer craig quickly discovered how much delight this brutal killer took in his notoriety the crimes being on national tv and it's been spoke about Amongst everybody. Yeah, I think I did certainly enjoy that side of things.  This is my favorite person I ain't never This is one of my favorite people that I've ever seen on a documentary like this This dude is just wild minded.   He was waiting He was about 20 foot away waiting to go through On the other side to go back his wing Well, we um, the scrooge opened the door and those four of us just went legging it towards huntley We just missed him by seconds Will mean the rest of the lads were going to stamp all over them and forgot all of them And now they were scared for the soham killer Unsurprisingly all the franklin prisoners have got their hands on him And he's been attacked repeatedly. Um, which uh Improvised weapons razor blade and toothbrush Water hot boiling water Not surprising Damian folks an armed robber for example attacked huntley In 2010 and slit his throat With an improvised weapon It wasn't the first time huntley had been attacked nor will it be the last Huntley's he's a survivor Hated isolated and will spend the best part of his life in prison He's made a number of suicide attempts and it's the responsibility of franklin's screws to stop him succeeding He threatened to kill himself So if you put on on a um On like a suicide watch and but huntley was on a constant So he he had a member of staff basically sit there and watch him for 12 hours through the day And yet another member of staff who've come down the night and just sit and watch him sleep for 12 hours on the night Yeah, me 12 hours easy money for security for y'all all right was went slowly While some may consider huntley to be among the worst of the worst Prison officers have to put their personal feelings aside Like craig did and accept that part of their job is looking after prisoners like him It would be hard going and then dealing in those situations and dealing with them prisoners knowing that the crimes have committed against children But you've you've just got to be professional. You've just got to do your job Screws that franklin may deal with notorious killers every day But they can't afford to get complacent There's always a chance that a murderer will strike again Me arm just gave way and that that I saw the the blood that started to come out and I realized that he Settled me out of me See, this is one of them jobs. I'd never ever ever even think about doing I had a friend that I went to high school with she uh She was a prison um She was one of these people I don't know how she did it or what level of security it was but I know she was a she was a correctional officer And I look at it. I'm like you are a correctional officer Like I know you I noticed if something went got to I'm if something kicked off you would not be You know I'm saying it's suitable A hmp franklin in 2010 There was a bloody clash between a prisoner and the prison officers One of the most controversial events in the prison's history Now We hear accounts from both sides kevin thachry was convicted along with his elder brother of killing three drug dealers Also convicted of two attempted murders of two women who happened to be in the house The killing was committed by the brothers were under what is known in british law as joint enterprise Um, which doesn't distinguish between which of the brothers actually pulled the trigger or stabbed the women the judge acknowledged that these elder brother Probably initiated the killing cold blooded Killing as the judge called it Both brothers received life sentences And were sent to category 8 prisons In 2010 they ended up on the same wing at hmp frankland The wing that prison officer craig wild was working on We had mikey thachry as he went by arrive on the wing And he he he wasn't a problem. He was quite flash and how we handed them so he liked his designer gear and then We had his brother arrive on the wing. Um We're about eight nine months later A change then Pio craig says that when thachry arrived sometimes all it take is A little family member to get there then they really become one one one one strong entity Of debauchery i've both brothers started acting out They started becoming a bit of a control problem both of them the kind of fed off each other craig says that prison officers put kevin on the basic regime to sanction his behavior So he being put on basic and he decided to barricade himself in his cell We thought right. We're gonna have to go and now get Kitted up with almodon in the shield and go and get him out the cell But so when the call came through and they said no just leave him The following day craig was on duty and says he saw a female prison officer approaching thachry's barricaded cell on her own So i tell her to wait And i went down as and i got as i got close to the door i just said is he all right And she went yes, this is right open the door as you open the door and he come out aggressive And shouting telling like he was shouting come on or something like that.  It's one of the toughest security prison cat a big dog prisons And y'all did a mistake like this that sounds mistake like if And shouting telling like he was shouting come on or something like that So i've grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and i've started to push him back into a cell And i didn't realize that he had a he had a broken glass bottle like it was hand and he's come and he's Stabbed us with it and it's getting us underneath the arm in the armpit and my arm just gave way and that the I saw the blood that started to come out and i realized that he severed me artery I was running back along the wing two members of staff came in and Under that arm for this deadly spot I took it in turns just pressing and sitting across my chest and pressing down on the wound It's trying to stop the bleeding and i started to get more tired and I just thought yeah, maybe maybe this is it now You know, I was I was going to bleed out there there and then in this In this room in the middle of in the middle of the prison I'd lost a approximately eight pints of blood by the time I got to university hospital In h.m.p. frankland a violent prisoner had come close to killing staff In a call from inside Kevin facra tells us what he claims triggered the incident You know being asian and muslim in frankland is uh I mean the the racism there From both sides the employees and the prisoners If it's been the case for decades Things escalated facra claims when his brother mikey was sent to the segregation unit facra alleges that in the seg Mikey and other prisoners of color Were attacked by the screws and they were gonna go Doing some racist attacks. They had a busy book He had one booked as well. We was a joint visit with our family I think the day after or two days after he had been assaulted He had a boot print on his face from where they had stamped on it and he told us what had happened Uh, not only to him but to other people facra alleges he reported these attacks to his mp And to the police and the prison responded by downgrading his prison privileges I was going to remain on basic for the rest of my time in that prison I feel like In frankland at least the way they put in it like if you got jumped by employees you just had to You had to take that you couldn't even tell They're gonna downgrade your stuff. You're gonna be sitting in there. No tv. No no bed sheets And if I didn't want to do it on the wing I can do it in the seg and get the same beatings that my brother was getting Uh, this was all said with abusive language Um racial language. They attacked me on the landing And threw me in the cell locked the door. I'd heard them He's talking about assaulting me. So I threw the carpet in front of the door and barricaded it so they couldn't get in These were the events that facra claims led up to the attack I ain't even a lot of you at this point. I can I believe them You feel me? I feel like Everything is caused by every every action is caused by every reaction is called by an action caused by an action like I don't know for some reason I just feel I believe him Craig disputes Thacker's version of events Kevin was on basic because of his attitude and his behavior It had nothing to do with the color of his skin or his religious background There's no truth whatsoever what Kevin that we're saying about the incident and that had occurred because He was being racially abused or it was self-defense because he was worried what stuff we're gonna do Thacker was charged with the attempted murder of craig and the female officer I'm not saying I agree with this part. I just want to make that clear you do I'm saying I kind of believe the reason why He uh I'm saying I believe the reason why he barricaded himself into the in the room at that point And with wounding with intent a third PO What followed was one of the biggest trials in franklin's history in gulf in the prison Prisoners and prison guards took the stand as witnesses for each side Thacker argued that the attack was a pre-emptive strike and he acted in self-defense As he believed he was going to be attacked by officers In court new details emerged about Thacker's frame of mind leading up to the attack His friend paul remembers the case A prison psychiatrist who actually initially Was there for the prosecution basically jumped sides And said that kevin suffered of the post-traumatic stress disorder So when he self ended the cell that triggered him that is why he fought back Thacker's PTSD was diagnosed when he arrived at franklin But it stemmed from being attacked by prison guards in a different prison In court PTSD is normally accompanied by paranoia They go one in the same kind of in most cases, so That doesn't make sense It doesn't make sense Oh, the jury must have accepted that in that state He genuinely believed force was needed to defend himself and he was cleared of all charges See what i'm saying I wasn't wrong when i said i feel like i believe him. He said i don't believe It just came off as super believable and i said i don't know why i believe him But see pts did make you think that you really need to go to those measures See and i was right for believing him somewhat technically The jury concluded Or agreed that he was probably suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder And didn't therefore increase his sentence It was a serious blow for craig and the other injured officers He got killed me that day and killed another three prisoners or Members of staff or anyone and he just would not have cared. He would have still found him at the same time like I feel like some type of Chain of some like something was not done right on the guards part Like y'all knew how volatile he was feeling at the moment y'all knew he had PTSD Yeah, I knew he had barricaded himself into that room the day before Like i'm not saying it's this guy's specifically his fault because the female prisoner like So all of these things happened that were out of his control basically But I still think y'all should have like The more guards should have went y'all should have been suited up. Y'all should have just just in case, you know It's cat a it's frank it's franklin prison aware To make it like it wasn't his fault It's fascinating. Is it not that uh at the trial for these attacks on the warders at frankland The jury unanimously found Sacra innocent. Oh unanimous that that PTSD, uh That's a strong that's a strong piece of evidence. I'm telling you he's diagnosed He's not just Santa if he did the diagnosis of PTSD, which is normally accompanied by paranoia And that type of situation With the history of why he got PTSD. Like if I was a jury, I would have been like, ah, nah, man Me pray I would have I would have said nah, y'all You know And what I was a question of the charge The prison officer's association tried to instigate a private prosecution which failed Consequences of what happened that day are lasting Craig didn't regain the use of his arm and hand. He had no choice but to retire from the prison service Nerve damage and I'm not saying that's not unfortunate for this man. He lost the He lost his career that he wanted since you know, he's long lying of guards That is unfortunate But I'm saying something something And it's not his fault just something was missed Y'all give what I'm saying what I'm saying something was missed Like I'll be watching these documentaries so much that I feel like in that In that situation They would normally come in with six seven guards and full riot gear Even if it's the next day just because it was a volatile situation when you rebarricated them So just to make sure They were coming there with the gear put them up against the wall Blah blah blah do all the you know what I'm saying Protect themselves go in a group You know, just for some reason didn't happen in the world's most toughest prison like I don't Chronic pain the the being nerves was all severed in my arm Had to have nerves and tendons taken out of out of my legs and Ended off with a lot of muscle wastage, which won't come back. That's all scar tissue now. The deformity of my hands That they did try to make me hands kind of it's in a normal position, but it's just it's clawed and and Wasted so that'll never come back That's the force from my stress severe depression It just had a massive knock on effect and it's had a knock on effect with Relationships relationships with my children While facra may have been cleared by the jury There would be consequences on his return to prison Some people would call it inhumane. Some people might even say it was torture What on earth else can we do with someone who's prepared to attack prison officers with a broken bottle? Put them in the psychiatric ward right Or people with PTSD don't get put in psychiatric ward. Do they know right? But something else got to happen Like we should have known retaliation was coming Kevin Thacker a prisoner at frankland who was stabbed officers with a broken bottle Was found not guilty of all charges in court But the prison establishment still had to deal with Thacker So then decided to keep him in solitary confinement Thacker was referred to the Klaus supervision center or CSC system Which holds some of the most dangerous men in prison in very restrictive conditions And close supervision is exactly what it says on the tin A very close watch is kept on each individual prisoner the CSC program of Kevin Thacker has been put on is designed to weaken you and you know Take the fight out of you. Yeah, and you don't Have contact with no one else they feed you through the door We'll have like five officers to unlock with shields and helmets one I know a lot of y'all is looking for benortem too, but It's another like the next episode is in parts and it's missing two parts And then after this episode like there's no more until at season eight So the whole of season Six and seven is not on youtube. So it's like, what are we doing? What should I do? You know And it's just a very draining Existence and I've not seen Anyone go through that system and come out the same throughout the prison system There are about 60 men in close supervision centers Being treated in the same way as Kevan Thacker In and a lot of the guys when they first come on the CSC if they're not already mentally ill they become mentally ill And within a matter of months or years end up in hospital from suffering the conditions of life in the csc 2015 report found that there were a disproportionately high number of muslim black and minority ethnic prisoners in the csc system While prisoners can be de-selected from the csc Few actually are an argument rages about whether detaining prisoners like this for years is justifiable prisoners Deserved to be in a prison within a prison that deserve to be in the csc system definitely and a lot of members of public The won't understand that they'll think well noise he's been a product of this or Staff must have done this. There's a reason he's like this, but some people are just evil people And it's it's as simple as that In 2021 the un special rapporteur on torture nils melzer Visited Thacker and saw how he was living When used for more than 15 consecutive days these conditions of detention amount to torture was melzer's verdict Thacker has been kept in these conditions for over a decade In response the ministry of justice said we strongly disagree with this depiction of close supervision centers Which are only used when a prisoner pauses a significant risk of harm to others Some people would call it in humane I would say that a lot of people would say what on earth else can we do with someone who's prepared to attack prison officers with a broken bottle Where did he get a glass bottle like where did he get a bottle that was Like because they say broken bottles. They make it sound like it was glass Where does he get a glass bottle from and in high in a high security prison? When in a cat a prison Prisoners long being used as a tool for punishment of franklin Paul was sent here in the 1980s and didn't even see the communal wings When I first went there I went into the segregation union, which was quite crowded quite a before And that was because staff had a straightforward strategy or policy in relation to prisoner They considered to be difficult there were place trains for segregation And it was a why the staff were able to maintain what they believe as a total control of the prison Paul had a tendency to rebel against the screws Organizing protests and advocating for prisoners rights Is why franklin sent him straight to the segregation unit and ultimately cost him dearly I was originally sentenced to life in prison with the judge's recommendation. I must serve no less than 25 years I have actually spent over 40 years in prison because of what was defined or called my Oppositional defiance disorder Or otherwise my propensity to cause trouble But life appalled wasn't defeated by franklin shoving him in the sec Although he was trapped in a single cell for 23 hours a day. He made use of his cell's tiny window Quite amazing to arrive in the segregation unit of franklin, which as I say was quite overcrowded at the time by what Staff would consider the most subversive unmanageable prisoners We established almost a community just by conversing and talking out of windows. You know, we would have Question and answer sessions quizzes out of the window Sing songs. Yeah, but then you're down to say He's like faster time. He's over like quiz master.  Did he understand the questions? The village. Yeah, it's a very educated people in prison. I'll just take one of them I think I used to sing Irish rebel songs My heritage being Irish Amazing incredible community of prisoners and it was a mood of defiance and solidarity there So, yeah, albeit I was on it for 28 days. I found it quite an inspiring experience actually, yeah But even with mates behind bars loneliness is part of what grinds you down at franklin Obviously when you're coming out Talking with your friends on the wing and all at the end of the day You're always going back behind your door by yourself And you just stuck with your own thoughts stuck by yourself thinking about the outside world. So it is rare It is a lonely place prison Women on the outside become a major obsession for franklin's prisoners Many cat a prisoners are only entitled to three or four visits a month And the uk doesn't allow conjugal visits Nonetheless, some prisoners managed to hang on to relationships from before prison Like gary. I think if you allow conjugal visits Violence might go down or something something. It gotta be some study or something.  We just asked and Fill it on while They said I had sex on over here While some single franklin prisoners benefit from a strange phenomenon Women who want to meet and date serious criminals There is a kind of a black market in In sort of relationships if you like and when I say relationships, I mean Not deep relationships.  You know, that's that's the kind of relationships peripheral when and and sad really like sometimes you might have a friend Who's a prisoner who's got a A girlfriend and his girlfriend's got a friend and you start writing her and talking to her on the phone In the next minute she's visiting you that happens to me a few times Leroy's letter writing romance developed and soon he found himself receiving a visit at christmas time A busy period in franklin's category a visitor suite What's this thing called snuggle right that's wrong But it was overbooked And it was full of my visit came so they gave me an illegal cubicle Yeah, and the man the staff the man left me in there. Yeah, he did and and yeah She gave me still And he saw he saw it from an angle. He did see a little bit But after we was walking back to the wing He was like he was making a joke of me saying that one of the other staff was telling him to stop me Yeah, but he said he said he's not stopping me. He said he's not he's not hauling that Over me understand. So there was a man Have a little bit of humanity Nah, I'm okay. He was like no, I'ma let him go crazy.  You talk about stopping look this can be this can make our life a little bit easier It's not just those on normal location who have the right to form relationships Any frankler prisoner even those on whole life sentences can receive letters and welcome visitors Women who write in because they're they're attracted to the men. They've seen them on On the telly and they'll write in and a lot of violent men get fan letters from women Um, in fact, there's actually a term for it. It's called hybristophilia These are women who are aroused by violent or offensive acts Other women who seek out prisoners have said they have different motivations including ironically Feeling safe knowing that they can control the contact in a relationship And their partner can't hurt them because every day is in a high security environment You get when you go down visits who have met them through kind of prisoner dating sites and they'll come in and and Sit and make them and and things like that. It is it is prison prison tender Quite surreal knowing that the crimes that they're in for and these women are still like, well, yes I want to be with you I always love bad boys, man Good guys never finish first You don't know the sayings This is quite literally In may 2022 Reports came out that one of franklin's most notorious prisoners had a new woman in his life Well, bellfield hit all sorts of reasons to uh Get back into the public eye at one point he confessed quotes To the trick and then killings of nin and megan russell. He didn't kill nin and megan russell not his handwriting at all He also bragged that he was going to get married Bellfield met his fiance through letter writing and uk law says he can apply for a marriage license He was given two whole life terms, which means that he will never be released Right Because prisoners can be quite manipulative very manipulative So whether he's he's what conversation he's having with this woman And what he's telling this woman, but she's certainly not getting in a normal relationship Only the governor can put a stop to leave via bellfield's nuptials He can refuse to let the wedding happen within franklin's walls Okay, I don't think bellfield should be allowed to marry. I don't think he's ever demonstrated one second of Empathy for another human being Only thing he cared about was his dog personally I don't think he deserves any human rights. I talked to the relatives of his victims Where are their human rights? It will horrify the population The prison population and the population at large Clearly this is an extreme view But franklin provokes a dramatic reaction in many who pass through his doors I didn't think I deserved that sentence That sentence was just brought out for dangerous predators There's an incredibly damaging and devastating effect on this state of mind for many committed suicide At the age of 21 ricky was sent to franklin for gbh with intent He'd slashed a man with a machete His victim survived with a nasty injury and ricky was given a daunting sentence The sentence that I got was a IPP and on paper it is 99 year sentence These have your sentence on outside of your door and on my door. I'd like 99 years 99 years for gbh Hold on gbh with intent Grievous bodily harm with intent to what? to harm Because if it was an attempted m it would be an attempted m not an with intent. What does intent mean? With intent to do what? Like to harm Like he planned it out. Is that what that means? IPPs the wording is a little bit different than the charges that be in in america sentences of imprisonment for public protection came in in 2005 They were immediately controversial as ipps sent supposedly lesser criminals to prison on terms similar to murderers With no fixed release date When I got that sentence, it didn't really sing in at first. You won't be released until the parole board think that you're No longer a risk to the public There was quite a few people serving ipps in front of them because they were classed as life as They were just sending them all to the high security prison IPP prisoners like ricky were given a so-called tariff a minimum term rickies was four years, but he knew he might serve years or even decades longer That's not still a thing is it ipb. That's not still a thing You got to go it sounds like the minimum for an ipp The minimum the minimum requirement should just be the end of it is what it sounds like for Without an ipp That charge would have been four years But with the ipp you have to serve a minimal four years And whenever we feel like you are not a not a threat to society anymore We're gonna let you go Let's see a lot of that is going to be super biased because He's in jail with a record like how do you determine that? He in jail getting bigger Lifting weights getting more jail tattoos looking more and more intimidating like I don't know. I didn't feel like I was a risk. I didn't feel like I was a risk to the public So uh, I didn't think I deserved that sentence because that sentence was just brought out for Dangerous predators and they're ended up giving it to too many people The idea when it was created Was that it's going to help we're only going to use it on about 900 people 10 times that were actually given IPPs were intended to protect the public from violent criminals But they were given out to people who stole mobile phones got involved in punch ups or jacked bikes I know lots of people in here Small terrorists they were supposed to do a small sentence and they've been in there 10 years over Yo, you sending people that might be exaggerating. I don't know you sending people to h&p franklin with ipps for stealing bikes some more than 10 years over and They just imagine stealing a bicycle And getting a minimum of eight years a minimum of six months But having to serve 10 years. Oh, man Wasting away It demoralizes them Makes them have no hope no future Set your anxiety off and It makes you depressed not known When you're ever going to be released and you can't tell your family back home your family's saying like When are you coming home or and you can't tell them because you're stuck in there without a release date So I have to contemplate and recognize that I may never ever ever be released from prison There's an incredibly damaging and devastating effect effect on this state of mind and many commit suicide tragically 71 ipp prisoners have killed themselves That's around twice the rate of suicide for other prisoners. Yeah, I mean I That's unfortunate, but like They're in they're locked up with wifers Crazy type sentence like they're locked up with lifers. They're locked up with prisoners who's committed real dangerous crimes who are real threats And they stole a bike Like no that don't even They don't even fit There's something that We used to talk about amongst each other and say like Not that what we're going to do but wonder what going through people's head just before they do it And what what way they would do it Ricky didn't get out when his four-year tariff elapsed the parole board turned him down Yeah, when I got to frankenland, obviously, I still had me girlfriend and she stuck buyers I did say to her at one point. Yeah Just go and do with your own thing like don't wait around for me because I could Stand up, dude. That's a real one right there Being I always say that man If you if you locked up for more than a year like man, you might as well just charge it to the game Your girl going to be out there doing the dirty anyway So Just let her X amount of yours. I never know But then a year later Ricky was one of the lucky IPP prisoners to convince the parole board. He was safe to release My girlfriend was waiting for us at the gates I'm always I was thinking about was going to mcdonalds to get a big muck and yeah I went to mcdonalds got a big muck and I was disappointed in the size where it was tiny How'd he get two of them? Judges stopped handing out these oppressive sentences Y'all got burger king in the uk? A whopper is a double whopper is way more A double whopper is way bigger than a big man Just saying because in 2012 But if you were already serving an IPP you were trapped Today 1722 IPP prisoners are still behind bars David Blunkett who was hang secretary at the time The introduction of IPPs Has subsequently called it the stain on our history And his worst mistake I think he was right. He's a very very blunt weapon And didn't work and it's left Trauma in its wake You don't need to take that away And they need to review all the big cases what IPP is and determine A non-biased group needs to review all the cases And let them go man His release Ricky is connected with the families of some of these prisoners And has become acutely aware of how lucky he was To actually find a way out. Oh My son's been in jail for 12 years and it's all for still like Yo I was just joking when I said that like I heard them say it But I I thought they was being over exaggerating it.  That's ridiculous But a decade later Things spiraled for Ricky He was charged with aggravated vehicle taking and the terms of his IPP sentence meant he was going back behind bars Ricky was sent to none other than franklin And he was nothing like his first excited arrival at these gates This time the difference was I didn't want to go to prison So when I got recalled Like my head was just in bits not normal when I was going to be released And he um me kids the youngest two was only two and three at the time They kept seeing dad when you come to him and I couldn't tell them and that for me was the The worst part In 2020 Ricky found himself locked up in the uk's official lockdown Meaning he barely left his single occupancy cell And um, we got locked down on the covert as well So I didn't have any contact and see me children for eight months Um, so that was a really hard time Back behind bars Ricky's mental health deteriorated I was suffering with anxiety again like it was unbearable of feelings I was having And I put in to see the doctors and it took 10 weeks before I've seen anybody And they um Some of the people that I've seen in prison It just had big slight marks all up their arms and being cut in the faces Because they weren't getting any help. They weren't getting the medication that they needed And they were just locked behind the doors nearly 23 hours a day Self-harm and just with no help As of a 2020 report Franklin had worrying levels of self-harm amongst his prisoners Higher than other cat is The place that had once seemed exciting to Ricky now seemed tragic He was desperate to get out again I've been in for 13 months. Um, I've done another course whilst I was in And I just kept my head down. Um, got on with the time And I got out after 13 months Now he's back at home with his family Ricky avoids thinking about his Yeah, beautiful family too. Hey, I couldn't even man listen Long history with frankland It's been 17. That's why listen. I'm all I live in Miami Spring break is happening or what's happening last week still happening this week kind of I am not participating First of all, I'm too old for that second of all, like I know me And I know drunk people like I'm not gonna I wouldn't even put myself into the future I got airport W thumbnail That's the end, right? Of course, no accountability TLL, leave a like, comment, subscribe, turn on your post notification bells. Hit that like button. I'm gone


Jay Fardel, this is Tim Teckham, more specifically, Transitional Justice. We're going to talk today with Odin Verodesky in Kiev, in Ukraine, about sanctions against Russia. Odin, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Aloha, if I may. Good for you. So tell us about your training and what you're doing in your life these days. My main affiliation connects with National University of Kiev Mahilla Academy, where I'm studying students' international law, namely diplomatic and the law of treaties. At the same time, I help in Ukraine in peace, government in topics related to sanctions, foreign policy issues, inter-parliamentary assembly, and so on. So I'm glad and happy to see you here, to speak with you and to share the word about Ukraine, about the war within your community. Yes, OK, great. I mean, I'm likewise very happy to talk to you. It's very important that we keep in touch with people like you and we follow what's happening in Ukraine. Because the news cycle moves on before you know it, something else gets to the top of the priorities. And we want to make sure that Ukraine is always at the top of the priorities, always. What's happening to you is happening to the world. What's happening to you is what's happening to the liberal world order. And we must protect you. That's my view of it. So let's talk first about the sanctions. Some people say the sanctions are doing real damage to the Russian economy. Other people say, including Mr. Putin, that they're not doing a lot to the Russian economy and that he can tolerate them. What's your view of that? I was amazed a few days ago. If you remember, Putin gathered his so-called economic forum in St. Petersburg where he was calling, like he's always calling, that Russia cannot be isolated. And on the other hand, you always see his messages related that economic sanctions do not work and Russia will stay strong under sanctions pressure. So these two types of messages, as usually, are inevitable and are opposite to each other, which are promoted by Kremlin. And if we see deeper and if we see the underneath and all of this scape, we see that sanctions damages to the Russian economy are high and great, despite many factors surrounding what we may call sanctions on elitics, which now display in us that the Russian economy is getting back on its feet. The Russian economy put under control the volatility of rubble. Like the inflation rate is not so high, comparing to other European countries. The central bank is controlling emission of rubble. On the other hand, it blocked US and euro conversation rates at some degree. So it stopped falling down the Russian rubble. And so everything like they claim working well now. But we see other part of metal. We see other part of story when we go in deeper into details. And the first thing and first trap for Russian economy is that technologies, technological companies, high-tech companies, companies which are working in the fields in the critical fields of Russian infrastructure, companies like Siemens or companies which producing supply for Russian oil industry are now living country. And Russia state will never manage to remaster, to repeat this type of story. So technological, I would say, back step in Russian economy is now great. Even at the beginning of these three months, new bake of war in Ukraine. So the war is continuing for 80 years, not for three months, but it's a new stage of this war. I don't know if you get 60 minutes for the popular news TV program on Sunday nights here in the US. But there were two articles, two segments on the program just last night that relate to this. And I'm going to ask you about them. One is a new story about the oligarchs and how they are investing huge amounts of money in the UK. And they're buying properties in the UK and they're buying legislators, members of parliament in the UK, trying to establish greater influence in the government and change government policy so as it is not anti-Russian. And that was of great concern to a number of members of parliament who spoke against it in parliament. The other story had to do with Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua.  His opposition candidates disappear. The same way Navalny has disappeared under false charges in Russia, same thing. And it appears that Putin is also supporting Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua and is building military facilities there and giving Ortega money and so forth. So what you have in the war against Ukraine, the invasion of Ukraine is a hybrid. It's a hybrid war, an asynchronous war where it's not just bullets. It's not just kinetic military action. It is everything and anything, including this effort to compromise the UK and to develop an ally of Russia in the backyard of the United States in Nicaragua. What are your comments about that? Can Putin afford to do that? Is the other sanctions affecting that? Why does he do that? What does he hope to achieve by continuing his global effort to compromise other countries? Like, primarily we should recognize that as an initial phase of this new intervention, Putin gained defeated in Ukraine. And now he will look for other options to make the best in what he can to do in the hybrid warfare, which combines legal warfare, political warfare and military warfare. So there is combination. And his army shows that it is complete disappointing when Russia spends like budgets and budgets, billion budgets of dollars for its army and has no result which it pretends to like. UK, United Kingdom, London is a unique story because for a while Russian oligarchs, members of families of Russian elites, plus families of Russian political friends and Russian political officials, they will live and spend in their money in London and we know that the districts, they buy not only flats or houses, they buy districts there. And now the stance of London, of Prime Minister Johnson is very strong and appealing to the world. We see that he had visited Ukraine for two times now and it shows a great sign. Again, United Kingdom sanctions are now the toughest one and the strongest one. They recently put on the sanctions Patriarch Kirill, which is pretending situation because it was the first time we see on the sanctions list person from, which mainly affiliated with religion community. But like everyone knows outside Russia that he's only one other agent from KGB, but he mainly affiliates himself with religion. So I know that in European Union, according to many reports, there were huge battle between Hungary and other member states to put Patriarch Kirill on the sanctions too, but they failed to do so now. And London takes this step and shows a result. And so despite now the value of Russian money there, it's obviously great. They proved to be independent in matters of foreign policy. There are many reasons why they're doing so. First reason and the obvious one is that they leave European Union and they need to show that they are still the global power, that they are still a global financial center and they still can dictate the rules. Not to follow and not to obey, but to dictate and to be like great again but in the United Kingdom variant because what they're showing now it's the highest level of being independent. And the second reason is that they were dependent because of money of Russian oligarchs but the structure of British economy shows little dependency on the Russian economy. It's not the case of Hungary, it's not the case of Central part European countries where like Russian economy ties might be much more stronger than Britain. So it can be several other reasons to add to this and they did well and Ukraine respect their decisions so much. And do you mean sanctions against Nicaragua? I just wonder like to interconnect somehow the discussion around sanctions mentioning not Nicaragua but Venezuela if I may, because we see this recent reports regarding that President Biden, his administration is now in contact with Venezuela, informal contacts in Venezuela and they asking them in change of lifting certain oil embargo limitations on the oil embargo and like to lift in certain economic sanctions against them. Why is they doing it? Because they see that if sanctions against Russia continues, prices in global oil market will rise. And I believe it's a good decision because sanctions is not a panacea, it is not a solution for any type of threats but basically the threat to the peace is the main one and the most important one is international relations and international law. So if like joint Western world including United States, United Kingdom, Europe doing together in response to the threat, it should consider the fact that threat to the peace is the main one. And we cannot simply think about protection of human rights or like a rule of law because once Russia capture here territories, there will be territories without any rule of law and human rights at all. So they did great that they do great because they now considering how to contract to Russian oil prices and to find other solutions which they may trigger where they can impact and where they can put more pressure, economic pressure on Russia because oil prices will go down if sanctions against Venezuela will be lifted. Well, one question that comes to my mind, Bodan, is what other, maybe you can help me with this, what other sanctions would be appropriate? If you could give advice to the coalition and to President Biden, would you advise them to apply additional sanctions? And what would those sanctions be? I would say that like now the sanctions portfolio sanctions portfolio is almost full and the United States sanctions track does a lot of stuff and I guess that like it's more than 50 or 60% that it can do now by now. It should be continued like with sanctions of persons, individual sanctions against Russian oligarchs because as recently I see that not all oligarchs it's only like about 10 out of 20 oligarchs are now under US sanctions. Again, it should be targeted against family members who are living now in the United States and spending corrupted, their corrupt assets in the United States. It should be a separate track and to know that it was created special task force. And the main one idea is that the sanctions and it was discussed between Biden and Congress and Synod that assets which are now frozen under sanctions should be under certain type of international agreement or under informal agreement, let's say so, be transferred to the recovery of Ukraine as compensation for the damages that is causing now by Russia. So like the third point now I believe is the main one and it now goes aside somehow and is disturbing notion because like almost all types of sanctions are now placed which the United States and Europe can propose, we can only expect from Euro gas embargo for instance, but it's a long story we see now. And I believe that the role of United States now is fitted better within international diplomacy when the president Biden like defense Ukraine abroad when talking to Asia region and saying that if Ukraine doesn't stand, it will be the next war there and all countries in the Western Pacific should not in the Eastern Western Pacific should understand that how aggressive put to responsibility is a practice and this practice will be the following one in case of next war there. Well, you know, there was an oligarchs yacht worth something over $300 million seized in Fiji at the request of the Biden administration and which was then taken to Honolulu, where I am. And it is sitting three or four miles away from where I am sitting tied up in Honolulu Harbor. And as you say, what should happen is this yacht should be sold and that's 300 plus million that could go, should go to compensate Ukraine for the damages that it has incurred. And however, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the full extent of the damages that Ukraine has incurred. And you get two points of relief on that beyond these oligarch yachts and funds in whatever banks is first, you get lawsuits by individual Ukrainians in the courts of other countries where Russian assets exist seeking compensation. Second is you get war crimes investigation, war crimes tribunals, which can from the civil side provide compensation to Ukraine and the people who have been the victims of war crimes. And I wanna ask you about that. For me, I would like to see those civil suits on behalf of individual Ukrainians whose families have been killed, tortured, what have you, when properties destroyed, sent back to Russia and the like, and various other war crimes on a civil basis. And then I would like to see the investigation of war crimes in general as war crimes under international law pursued. And I understood last time around, there was something in the order of 5,000 investigators from outside Ukraine in Ukraine doing that investigation. And I wonder how much investigation is necessary. This is like the insurrection investigation pending in Congress, in the US Congress right now. We saw it on television and we saw what happened in Ukraine and Bukha on television. So the proof of the war crimes and that the Russians did the war crimes is very clear. And so query, how much investigation do we need? How much investigation do these individual Ukrainian plaintiffs need? Victims and those who have lost family, lost businesses, lost property. Don't we already know what happened? What else do we need to do to pursue all these claims? You know, you should go and see this yacht in your harbor and to take the picture for sure, because I believe for Russian solid stocks, owns the best yacht in the world, the longest one, the biggest one and so on. But returning back to victims of war and war criminals, you know, it's a long story which will not end in even next few years. Why I'm a bit skeptical about civil suits in other jurisdiction? It might work for big companies like international companies, companies which have foreign branches, but it will not work for the majority of people who are victims of the war. They simply cannot, let's say, charge and employ American lawyer, European lawyer to make the civil suit there. It will not work as an option to cover like expenses, to cover damages that victims of war gained. And again, the best option is international agreement, international body, specialized international body, trust fund, which be specifically devoted to managing Russian frozen assets. Which are now counting around, I would like not to be saying mistake here, but the recent numbers were about half of damages Ukraine calculate. So it at least can compensate half of these damages. And we can send our how to cover the other part of these damages. But again, this option will work much more better because it will be international mechanism approved and adopted and supported by at least G7 countries plus European Union. So we have basically, we have Saudi and then we can join Japan or South Korea and other countries which now put sanctions on Russia and having like at least 40 countries on board. It will show, it will show the result because you see that it will be a consequences for any aggressor. Okay, the aggressor may consider like to withdraw money before the invasion, but on the other hand of the story, the aggressor will show that the international community will find mechanisms to make money of aggressor for compensation of the victim of aggression. So basically I believe the best option is international agreement for frozen Russian assets. I know this complicated story, but I know that United States devotes so much attention to money, which I say now supporting Ukraine and Russian money should be central one here because Russia is only state and country responsible for that. So what has to happen before we get to an end game on these claims, these claims of war crimes? Now investigation online and I even see the first sentence on war crime in Ukraine. It will be continued, but again, there is not a high level war official like military officer. So we will see in the nearest future many other cases with many other dramatic stories behind them. You know, and you see that international groups of investigator walking around and walking in Ukraine and helping Ukraine and prosecutorial team to collect and find evidences. It is going on, it will be going on, it will be results, but again, I hardly believe that we can bring Putin's showdown, his company to the responsibility, saying at least in the nearest year to even five. So we're almost out of time, Bodan, and I wanna ask you one last question. You know, we see all the news every day in the New York Times, the Washington Post about how the Russians are making advances in Donbass. We are seeing all the damage to Ukrainian properties, especially including residences. We are seeing the refugees fleeing West. We are seeing the country being damaged to a profound degree, economically, socially, culturally. Can you tell us what you teach in your classes in Kiev? Can you leave a message with the American people here about the status of this and the expectations of this and how you feel and your students feel and the people you know in Kiev? How do they feel about this? Where do they see this going? How strong is their resolve? How do they feel about the Lord Amir Zelensky and his leadership? What's the state of affairs? Like the best news for us now is new and new weapons and new arms from United States, including and especially from United States and here Ukrainian people, more than grateful for the people of the United States because of their help and military aid. It's beneficial one, it's a positive one, and we expect some time to have 300 kilometers range missiles on the Hemar system, MLRS system, and again, Russia can continue its offensive operation on the bus, but you see no one is willing to be defeated here. We know Russia will make genocide, which is now making and President Biden confirmed it. Genocide is a crime about all other crimes, evidently, and it's basically the role of the United States is to support us more in terms of weapon, in terms of financial support and to find way to bring Russian responsible. It will show again the leadership of United States. I know that people of United States probably are concerned much more about like the domestic topics, which is evidently too, but you cannot simply ignore genocide happening somewhere in the world, happening close to the country, which always was in strategic cooperation with United States. Okay. Biden, it means from God, right? Hmm? Yeah. Oh, John Bernadeski, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you for your views and your call to action. Let me say that although you and I are half a world away, we here in Hawaii support you and we want you to prevail and succeed and remain a beacon on the hill of the liberal world order and to preserve democracy, if you will, around the world. It's appreciated so much. And we feel it. Thank you so much for that. Aloha. Bye-bye. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.


So today I'm not here to talk about a new API, an amazing software, anything technical, not at all. Today I'm here to talk to you about turtles, or I'm here today to talk about foreign culture ceremonies, or some weird food. So some weird food. This is food in some countries. This is from Cambodia, this is South Korea, and this is Philippines. I'm here to talk about freedom. Freedom can take many forms, and the one that I will be focusing on today is freedom of travel. My name is Luc. I work for a company based in Chicago called Prometsource. I'm a solution architect and I focus on architecture for Drupal and complex implementation of Drupal on large projects. And I do all of this remotely, so I don't go to the office every day, and my life in 2017 was not like this. Is there people from India? Because I presented this before and someone said, yeah, yeah, this is India. This is definitely India. So yeah, my life in 2017 was not like this. My life in 2017 was this. So this is the list of the countries that I visited for a period between a couple of days to a couple of months. So I went to France, Philippines, Japan, Thailand, Australia, Belgium, Italy, Morocco, Hong Kong, Taiwan. And to illustrate this remotely thing, the new freedom we can enjoy as developers, here is an office. It's a beautiful big office in San Francisco, and you may know the company behind it. It's the company that runs WordPress. They are called Automatic. And so they closed the office. They had this beautiful space in San Francisco, but nobody wants to go there. They said to the employee, you can either work from home or you can go to the office. It's up to you. And everybody stayed home. Because offices are killers. They are freedom killers. My idea is that offices, they can be great, but they also have very tricky aspects. So usually offices means crowd. It means traffic. It means office hours, waste of time, and it's expensive. So that's a good example. So this is the price of the 20 most expensive cities in the world. And this is Singapore. So you know exactly what I'm talking about. Singapore is one of the most expensive cities in the world. It's on the map. There's also London, Paris. So all those places are very, very popular business places. It's very, very expensive to live there. And the quality of life you will have in those places. Well, you could have a much better life, work balance, or a better environment in smaller places which are cheaper. And talking about office hours, this is cinema during business hours. So if you have the freedom to adjust also your schedule, and if you have more freedom, then you can go to the cinema during business hours. So that's another part of the freedom that we have access to. If you want to take freedom to the next level, so here is a couple of tips. The first and the main one is that if you want to travel more, you have to travel cheap. But what's even better is to travel smart. So I developed a couple of skills into detecting coupons and codes in order to travel more. So for example, if you need to take a flight, if you need to go somewhere remotely to take a plane basically, I recommend a couple of tools that you can use to compare. So here is one. All the companies that I'm going to notice, I don't have any profit or any shares on those companies. I just share it because I like the tools. That's it. So here is one of them. It's called Sky Scanner. And there's another one, kayak.com. Be careful not all of the companies are inside of those sites. And sometimes it's an API reason, I guess. So you have to go to the site separately. In the Philippines, the famous one is Cebu Pacific. Cebu Pacific does not appear on Sky Scanner or other comparison tools. So you still have to use separate websites. Compare hotels. There's a different solution for hotels. If you want to spend one night only, I recommend that you use a comparison tool and you take the cheapest. TripAdvisor has a great tool that would give you a couple of websites and you get the cheapest place. If you want to stay more than one night, I recommend you to use this website called Hotels.com. The big advantage of Hotels.com is that it gives you one free night every 10 nights. So it computes the average price of the 10 nights that you bought and it gives you one voucher of that amount. I used that a lot and I had, I don't know, maybe 10 nights so far for free. So that's pretty good. Another thing is to check for coupon discount. You just write Hotels.com space code on Google and you can find 10%. Talk to me after this session. I can give you 11% discount. I have codes. I receive this by email and this is very useful. Another solution, Airbnb. If you stay for example one week to one month, they may offer you minus 25% to minus 50%. Get a bank that is 24 hours with support. That's very, very useful. If you arrive in a country and your card doesn't work, then you definitely want 24 hours support. This is a bank in Europe. It's called N26. The big advantage of N26 is that it includes travel insurance as long as you buy the plane tickets with that card. And it also provides you no fee when you withdraw outside of Europe. So if I withdraw in here in Singapore with this card, there's no fee. Yeah, go where your friends are. If you have friends in Australia, go to Australia, go to visit them. The best place to travel remotely, to work remotely and to travel is to visit your friends. This is where you get the best advice. Yeah, buy smart when you travel. So a couple of advice that I can give you is only buy what you need. That's pretty obvious. Don't buy any extra stuff. Buy little, travel light. Look for promos, discounts, voucher codes, and check for good places to buy. If you go, for example, to a place where there is outlets, find some outlets store so you can buy cheaper stuff. Secure your Wi-Fi. You need Wi-Fi when you travel. Get a pocket Wi-Fi or get a nearby coffee shop. Try to find places where you can have Wi-Fi. If you want to go nomad, nomad, that's people who don't have any local place where they stay for a very long time. They keep on traveling all the time. I did a bit last year, but some people do that all the time. So there's a nomad list that's to help you compare countries. Work from, that's to find co-working space. And if you want some Drupal events around the globe, you can use Drupal code. And I give you a last piece of advice is how I just traveled to Japan for free. So I'm going to give you plane tickets. Sorry, but it's true. I traveled for free to Japan just two days ago. And this is how I did it. This is a trick with Apple. I needed a new laptop, Apple. And the model of laptop that I wanted, MacBook Pro, was 22% cheaper in Japan. So the difference is actually pretty big. In France, the price of the laptop was 2,488 euros. And I paid in Japan 1,941. The difference is 527 euros, which covers the price of the ticket from the Philippines, which is 250, and also the price of the hotel that I had for a couple of days. So this is how I traveled for free. And you can do the same if you use this website, applecompass.com. In Hong Kong, Apple delivers two hotels. So if you need to order online, you can stay there. It was a bit more complicated in Japan, but it worked. One of the last piece of advice that I have is that I don't want to tell everyone to travel as much as I did in 2017. The last thing we need is every developer to pollute as much as I did in 2017. So if you really want to travel, then please consider contributing to your carbon footprint and help some charities such as Carbon Found that helps non-profit people and helps the environment with projects. Some ideas, you don't have to go very far if you want to enjoy the freedom of travel. Just pick up a good spot that you can reach with 3G, 4G, have a picnic, go camping with 3G, 4G, go to a new coffee shop in your area. You don't have to go very far. The main idea is to enjoy freedom and to embrace the fact and the liberty that we have as remote workers. That's pretty much it. You can contact me on Twitter, Instagram. If you want more photos of travel, definitely Instagram. And also, I'm the organizer of Kruppel Camp Cebu, which I am happy to announce the date today. It's going to be November 17. Cebu is in the Philippines and is famous for Results Beach. People are telling me that I'm in TimeZop. Thank you very much.