As we said in our analysis of Dell's future, the transformation of Dell into Dell EMC and now Dell Technologies has been one of the most remarkable stories in the history of the technology industry. After years of successfully integrated EMC and becoming VMware's number one distribution channel, the metamorphosis of Dell culminated in the spinout of VMware from Dell and a massive wealth creation milestone pending of course the Broadcom acquisition of VMware. So where does that leave Dell and what does the future look like for this technology powerhouse? Hello and welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Dell Technologies Summit 2022. My name is Dave Vellante and I'll be hosting the program today in conjunction with the Dell Tech Summit. We'll hear from four of Dell's senior executives. Tom Sweet is the CFO of Dell Technologies. He's going to share his views of the company's position and opportunities and answer the question, why is Dell a good long-term investment? Then we'll hear from Jeff Boudreau who's the president of Dell's ISG business unit. He's going to talk about the product angle and specifically how Dell is thinking about solving the multicloud challenge. And then Sam Grocott is the senior vice president of marketing, he's going to come in the program and give us the update on Apex which is Dell's as a service offering and a new edge platform called Project Frontier. By the way, it's also cybersecurity awareness month and we're going to see if Sam has any stories there. And finally, for a company that's nearly 40 years old, Dell has some pretty forward-thinking philosophies when it comes to its culture and workforce. We're going to speak with Jen Savidra who's Dell's chief human resource officer about hybrid work and how Dell is thinking about the future of work. We're going to geek out all day and talk multicloud and edge and latency, but first let's talk wallet, Tom Sweet, CFO and one of Dell's key business architects. Welcome back to theCUBE. Dave, it's good to see you and good to be back with you. So thanks for having me, Dave. Yeah, you bet. Tom, it's been a pretty incredible past 18 months, not only the pandemic and all that craziness, but the VMware spin, you had to give up your gross margin binky. That's kidding. And of course the macro environment. I'm so sick of talking about the macro, but putting that aside for a moment, what's really remarkable is that for a company of your size, you've had some success at the top line which I think surprised a lot of people. What are your reflections on the last 18 to 24 months? Well, Dave, it's been an incredible, not only last 18 months, but the whole transformation journey, if you think all the way back, maybe to the LBO and forward from there, but stepping into the last 18 months, it's, I think I remember talking with you and saying, hey, the scenario plane we did at the beginning of this pandemic journey was 30 different scenarios roughly and none of which sort of panned out the way it actually did, which was a pretty incredible growth story as we think about how we help customers, drive workforce productivity, enable their business model during the all remote work environment that was the pandemic created. And a couple of that with the rise then and the infrastructure spin as we got towards the tail end of the pandemic coupled with the spin out of VMware which culminated last November as we've completed that, which unlocked a pathway back to investment grade which then unlocked, quite frankly, shareholder value, capital allocation frameworks. It's really been a remarkable 18, 24 months. It's never dulled at Dell Technologies. Let me put it that way. Well, I was impressed with you, Tom, before the leverage buyout and then what I've seen you guys navigate through is truly amazing. Well, let's talk about the challenging macro.  But IT spending is, you know, it's somewhat softer but it's still not bad. How are you seeing customers behave? How is Dell responding? Yeah, look, if you think about the markets we play in, Dave, and we should start there as a grounding, you know, the total market, the core market that we think about is roughly $750 billion or so. If you think about our core IT services capability, you couple that with some of the growth initiatives that we're driving and the adjacent markets that that brings in, you're roughly talking a $1.4 to $1.5 trillion market opportunity, total addressable market. And so from that perspective, we're extraordinarily bullish on where are we in the journey as we continue to grow and expand? You know, we have, we're number one share in just about every category that we plan but yet when you look at that, you know, number one share in some of these, you know, our highest share position maybe, you know, low 30s and maybe in the high end of storage or at the upper end of 30s or 40% but the opportunity there to continue to expand the core and continue to take share and up perform the market is truly extraordinary. So if you step back and think about that, then you say, okay, what have we seen over the last number of months and quarters? It's been, you know, really great performance through the pandemic as you highlighted. We actually had a really strong first half of the year of our fiscal year 23 with revenue up 12% operating income up 12% for the first half. You know, what we talked about is, if you might recall in our second quarter earnings was the fact that we were starting to see softness. We had seen it in the consumer PC space which is not a big area of focus for us in the sense of our total revenue stream but we started to see commercial PC soften and we were starting to see server demand soften a bit and storage demand was holding quite frankly. And so we gave a framework around guidance for the rest of the year as a result of what we were seeing. You know, the macro environment as you highlighted continues to be challenging. You know, if you look at inflation rates and the efforts by central banks across the globe to with through interest rate rise to press down and constrain growth and push down inflation, you couple that with supply chain challenges that continue principle, particularly in the ISG space. And then you couple that with the Ukraine war and the energy crisis that's created and particularly in Europe. It's a pretty dynamic environment. And, but I'm confident, you know, I'm confident in the longterm but I do think that there is, you know that there's navigation that we're going to have to do over the coming number of quarters who knows quite how long, you know to make sure the business is properly positioned. And, you know, we've got a great portfolio and you're going to talk to some of the team later on as you think your way through some of the solution capabilities we're driving, what we're seeing around technology trends. So the opportunities there, there's some short-term navigation that we're going to need to do just to make sure that we address some of the, you know, some of the environmental things that we're seeing right now. Yeah, and as a global company, of course you're converting local currencies back to appreciated dollars. That's another headwind. But as you say, I mean, that's math and you're navigating it. And again, I've seen a lot of downturns but you know, the best companies not only weather their storm but they invest in ways that allow them to kind of come out the other side stronger. So I want to talk about that longer term opportunity, the relationship between the core, the business growth, you mentioned the TAM. I mean, even as a lower margin business, if you can penetrate that big of a TAM, you could still throw off a lot of cash and you've got other levers to turn in potentially acquisitions and software. But so ultimately, what gives you confidence in Dell's future? How should we think about Dell's future? Yeah, look, I think it comes down to, we are extraordinarily excited about the opportunity over the long-term. Digital transformation continues. I am on numerous customer and CIO calls every week. Customers are continuing to invest in digital transformation and infrastructure to enable their business model. Yes, maybe it's been a slow or pause or maybe they're not going to invest quite at the same rate over the next number of quarters, but over the long-term, the needs are there. You look at what we're doing around the growth opportunities that we see, not only in our core space where we continue to invest but also in the, what we call the strategic adjacencies. Things like 5G and modern telecom infrastructure as the telecom providers across the globe open up their, what have previously been closed ecosystems to open architecture. You think about what we're doing around the edge and the distribution now that we're seeing of compute and storage back to the edge given data, gravity and latency matters. And so we're pretty bullish on the opportunity in front of us. Yes, we will, and we're continuing to invest and you heard Jeff Boudreau talk about that, I think later on in the program. So I'm excited about the opportunities and you look at our cash flow generation capability. We are in normal times, a cash flow generation machine and we'll continue to do so. We've got a negative CCC in terms of, how do we think about efficiency of working capital? And we look at our capital allocation strategy, which has now returned somewhere in near 60% of our free cash flow back to shareholders. And so there's lots of reasons to think about why this, we are a great sort of, I think value creation opportunity and over the long-term that the long-term trends are with us and I expect them to continue to be so.  I mean, I said in my other piece that I did recently, I think you guys put $46 billion on the balance sheet in terms of debt that's down to, I think 16 billion in the core, which that's quite remarkable and that gives you some other opportunities. Give us your closing thoughts. I mean, you kind of just addressed why Dell is a good long-term player, but I'll give you an opportunity to bring us home. Hey, Dave, yeah, look, I just think if you look at the market opportunity, the size and scale of Dell and how we think about the competitive advantages that we have, we can, if you look at, say we're a $100 billion revenue company which we were last year as we reported, roughly 60, 65 billion of that in the client and PC space, roughly 35 to 40 billion in the ISG or infrastructure space, those markets are gonna continue. The opportunity to grow, share, grow at a premium to the market, drive cash flow, drive share gain is clearly there. You couple that with what we think the opportunity is in these adjacent markets, whether it's telecom, the Edge, what we're thinking about on data services, data management, and you put that together with the long-term trends around data creation and digital transformation. We are extraordinarily well positioned. We have the largest direct selling organization in the technology space. We have the largest supply chain, our services footprint, well positioned in my mind to take advantage of the opportunities as we move forward. Well, Tom, really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. Good to see you again. Nice seeing you. Thanks, Dave. All right, you're watching theCUBE's exclusive behind the scenes coverage of Dell Technology Summit 2022. In a moment, I'll be back with Jeff Boudreau. He's the president of Dell's ISG, Infrastructure Solutions Group. He's responsible for all the important enterprise business at Dell and we're excited to get his thoughts. Keep it right there.


Gwyddoi'r tynnu, mae'n gofynu. Mae'n teimlion mewn nabili ar y canol Llesiwn ac os ydych chi'n gwybod ffansiwyd y panell ar gael ai'r gael arno. Gweithio'n gweithio'n gwrs. 2 ymlaen nhw'n gweithio'n gweithio'r panell yn Doha o'r coff, y Cyfrideg Climates. Mae'r cwrsau rŵn ffordd i ddod o'u ddangos a'r cwrsau sydd ymlaen nhw'n gweithio'r cyfrideg a'r cyfrideg. mae'n siarad, mae'n cyrraedd, mae'n fath o'r agendau fewn i'r gwaith, a bawb i'r agendau sydd fydd yn ei wneud, boed adeg ar y maen nhw i chi'n g doin yn tornt. Wrth gwrs, mae wedi'i gweithio i fynd i'r proffwyr Mae WEF yw'r adeg sy'n ei wneud o'r agendau a'i wneud i'n gweithio i gwaith ac rwy'n dechrau eich bod yn yw'r agendau, boed e'n cael eu wneud i'r agendau, ac dyw'n cael i'i gweithio i'r adeg. felly mae'r cydnod yn ystod gyda'r gynhyrchu. Mae'n bwysig i'r cyfnod i gael ei gael ar y gaelol. Rwy'n mynd i'n meddwl am gweithio ddydd â'r ei wneud yn ysgolodd o'r cael ei wneud o'r rhan fawr o'r gweld. Mae'r bwysig i'r fawr o'r ffwrdd ac o'r agriacelwyr o'r ddod yw i'r ddod yma sy'n gyfnod i'r rhan i'r gael o'r gael o'r ffwrdd. Rwy'n meddwl am y dyma, i wneud o'r panelau ar y dyfodol yw'r FWF, ddim yn ei wneud o'r teimlo yn ei ddweud. Mae'r llwyddoedd yn ei wneud o'r gwneud o'r ffordd yn y mwyaf yw'r 40 ymlaen a'r ffordd yn y gweithio yn y gyrdd 4,000 ymlaen. A rwy'n gweithio i ddweud o'r cyfeirio'r cyflwyno'r ysgol, ac mae'n ffwrdd ar y cyflwyno'r cyflwyno'r cyflwyno. Felly, o wnaeth i'w gweithio'r ffordd yn y dyfodol i'r bwrth i'r gronwyr gwaith global. Rwy'n gynhyrch i chi'n gweithio'r ffordd mewn y llwytoedd i'r ffordd a'r ffordd o'r problemau, ac yn fawr, rwy'n gweithio'r ffordd o'r gwirioneddol i'r bwrth. A gennym ni na yn ymddangos, rydw i'n gweld y llwytoedd gwahanol yn diwylliant i'r ffordd i chi'n gweithio ar y gwaith, ac rydw i'n rwy'n eu gweithio'n bwysig. Mae'n angen i'n gweithio'r gwaith. yng Ngôred Fathus mewn ygweld mewn agri-gweld a'r ystyried yng ngyfans yng выход yng Ngôred Vietnmar. Estrallia Penunia, g daeth y Exodus boardsyntr y dylai ymgyrch yn geisio ar gyfer cyfnodau hawr, Yn gydych chi'n yn fwyaf o flyn yn Filippiau. Frankie Wajaya, yna sydd yn hŷn am hŷn maes, sydd wedi allan yr hun, y cif Hawdd i'r gwaith y gofyniau hŷn maes, ychydig o'r cyfnodau a'r ystafell. is the hosting group managing director of ASEAN of DuPont coming to us from Singapore and at the far end Robert Ziegler, director general, International Rice Research Institute of the Philippines. Thank you all for participating in this situation. I mean there are so many aspects of what's been talked about already is the challenges involved and we have a good representation here of people from the private sector, government and of course from the civil society. So let me begin if I could with you Australia and let's take it to ground level. Everybody is looking to the world of farmers now and saying okay the challenge is for the farmers to produce more food than they ever have done. And in the West we've already seen that process turning into commercial agribusiness. In Asia obviously the challenges are entirely different. The land ownership, the production, the people involved are completely different demographic. So from your perspective just give us a little bit of background on how the farmers experiences right now and how they're looking at the challenges that have been brought up here. Okay thank you very much. For me the challenge is not only to produce more food but to produce in such a way that I can earn from what I produce. So I have a farm and it's an upland farm. It's a two hectare farm and I have planned to produce vegetables and fruits in a sustainable organic way but I don't have title to the land so I cannot get loan. I have a partner farming family and they do not know the technology for organic agriculture and then we don't have link to the market. So some buyers come to our village and they get our produce at a very low price but when we look at the market in the nearby town the price of our produce is like triple or four times. So this is my concern as a farmer. So to produce food we think yes we have to produce more food but the challenge is also how to produce it in a more sustainable way. Because we experience drought for example we experience less water in our farm. So how do we produce with all these climate shocks? If there was a farmer here I don't know if there are any farmers from the Philippines or elsewhere around Asia in the audience today. Do you think they'd be looking at this panel and the other events that have been going on and saying I see a support mechanism here. These people are addressing my issues or do you think they'd be completely bewildered by what this conversation and saying look how does this affect me? I think looking at I have the secretary of agriculture here in the Philippines. I think the government has lots of support already for farmers who want to for example go into sustainable agriculture or even agriculture for example. Do you have the extension? You have the research institutions. You have some kind of financing. The challenge for example for small farmers is how to access, how to link to your services. That's why the challenge for us is also how to organise ourselves into clusters or into groups or organisations so that as a group we can better claim or we can better access your services or we can better negotiate with some of the private companies who are dealing with the farmers. Are you getting enough help though either from government or from the private sector in meeting those challenges? Do you think that the amount of effort and the focus that's being expanded is appropriate? In some areas yes when we are more organised but in some areas no. What would be the areas that you would want to see more action on? We want to see more action in terms of information dissemination for example with regards to the government services that they have. We want to have more in terms of extension work. We want to have more on relationships and partnerships between government and between private companies in terms of what we can do together for production and for marketing and for food processing. Let's get a perspective from the other end of that spectrum, from government. Minister Phat, just describe to us if you would the priorities for the government in Vietnam, how you see the situation in context of what Australia has described as her experience. When in Asia, in Vietnam we have mostly small farmers producing most agricultural producers and the main task for any government is to assist farmers to raise their productivity. In order to be successful from our experiences, I mean in Vietnam, I think that first we need very strong commitment from the government. And then secondly we need to work out and enable policy environment to encourage farmers, businesses and own partners involved to work together effectively. And thirdly we need to invest more in agriculture. First of all to improve infrastructure and in international aspect, I think we need to work out stronger cooperation, more free trade that would assist farmers in every country. The infrastructure component of what you're doing and the preparation I suppose for the need for greater efficiency. Just explain to me what Vietnam sees as its priorities in these regards, particularly when you consider the issue of climate change and things like that. Just how much priority is being given to the planning for agriculture and the challenges ahead and how much are you just trying to organise the basic framework of your agricultural industry first? When Vietnam is forecasted to be among the five worst affected by climate change and in order to adapt to climate change and participate in international effort of mitigation, we are working on plan to adapt country as a whole. And first of all in agriculture. As agriculture likely will be affected strongly and in terms of infrastructure, we plan and carry out measure in such way to facilitate higher productivity. We need to be able to adapt to the future. We have integrated plan and most important in Vietnam nowadays is to improve irrigation system including not only reservoir to store more water. What also like system, first of all see like system. Okay, so we've said the framework there, the spectrum. At one end the farmers on the ground, at the other end the government making policy. When we come back after this short break, we'll talk about what the middle ground has to do about this, the commercial operations, the civil society operations. We'll take a short break first back in just a minute. Sorry, that's the TV element for the whole process. Okay, we'll start again. Okay, welcome back. We're talking about the challenges now of trying to solve the issues laid out by our first two guests. Let me come to you Bob Zeigler about just how you see that broader environment, not at a nation level but at a scientific level. Your research institute is obviously concerned with these things. At the scientific level, there's I think both tremendous challenge and tremendous opportunity. We know that the changing climate will throw at us some major challenges for our crop productivity. That would be droughts, floods, seawater intrusions, salinity, et cetera, probably changing pest dynamics. But the upside is that we have at our disposal a tremendous array of new tools that are becoming available. Our understanding of molecular biology, genetics, this whole biological revolution will allow us to develop crops that will withstand the onslaughts of climate change. Likewise, revolutions in communications technology, satellite imagery, all of these will allow us to get real world pictures of what's happening in the farmer's fields. Get information to farmers, I think Estella mentioned, the need for farmers to have access to information, to be able to make timely decisions. They become better credit risks, if that's the case. So I see bringing together the scientific tools enabled by policy changes that will allow farmers to previously landless farmers to participate in the market much more effectively and changes in the ways in which farmers access information as being instrumental to transforming agriculture. And I think what we really need to be thinking about is growing the rural sector. What are the tools that make life in the rural areas attractive? You're not going to get farm productivity increase unless people are making a better living, but I think we have the tools. Let me focus for a moment, though, on that interaction, that interface between the science that you were talking about and the farmers on the ground. How good is that communication process? To what extent do farmers, I guess, trust and understand the science that you're offering them in terms of how to use pesticides and to what extent, whether the new kinds of seeds that you're offering them are actually going to benefit them rather than costing them more money? How is that communication process? Well, that's one of the big conundrums. We had extension systems that were designed during the 60s and 70s in many ways modeled after the U.S. experience of the 40s and 50s. That system is broken down. We need to develop the messages related to the technology using new communications tools that we now have. Every farmer's got a cell phone for all practical purposes. Getting those messages in a way that farmers can understand them and getting them to adopt the technology and have the technology once it's adopted result in a mechanism that farmers actually can participate in the upside of taking a risk and not only on the downside. I think that's getting the risk equation right with farmers is important. That's going to be a combination of technology, information that allows the adoption and execution of a technology and a market that will be receptive. Let's bring hosting channel on this because your company to a certain extent is part of that interface. You provide some of the technology, deal with the industry in a way. Give us your thoughts on that interface and what technology offers and if it's doing it right. First of all, I think from a DuPont is a science company and we spend 2 billion U.S. dollars per year on technology and about 60% over of that is connected to food and agriculture. In fact, we do collaborate with Erie as well in rice research in technology. So if I could kind of step back a step and say our company is noticing these major changes in the coming 20, 30, 50 years and we see the population growth going forward towards 9 billion over people by 2050. And coming with this population increases are the increase of demand on food. Looted in the film earlier is 60% or 70% increase in food is needed over this period of time. And we believe that even the dietary change, i.e. more consumption of meat and more consumption of eggs and all that is going to place an additional demand on crops because we use crop to feed the animals. And so demand on crops will continue to be perhaps even higher. So the question is then how do you solve this issue of much increase in demand over this period of time. So you can think of first maybe we can increase the arable land and we can maybe open up more new lands. But the data shows that the arable land on earth is approximately 1,540 million hectares. And in between now and 2050 there's no more land. There's probably 80 million hectares left to be had. So that's 4 to 5%. You can say we want to on the same plot of land plot more plants as a way to solve it. But that doesn't solve the problem. It probably contributes again 4 to 5% of the need. So over 90% of the need of the increased food production are going to come from increasing yield. Now the factors that are against this would be two-fold. One, urbanisation. As cities go urbanised, they actually want to use more land for urbanisation purposes. And they also attract many people from the farm sector into the cities for industrialisation. So that goes against what we are trying to do here in terms of producing more food. The second thing is also a very important factor that is that I hear yesterday that there are 57, age 57 is the average age of the Philippines farmers. And so we are having some challenge of getting younger people coming into the farm sector. The children of the farmers are reluctant to be farmers again. So those challenges continue to place stress on our ability to produce more food. So what are the solutions? Well, let me just stick with the problem for a second if we could. Do you, as a science company, view the problem as a technological challenge? A matter of carving up numbers of people, amounts of land yield per acre. Is it a scientific and mathematical issue or is it a broader issue? To what extent do you focus on the pure data and the people involved in the various constituent parts of that organisation? As Timo, you alluded to earlier, this is a very complex big issue. And we as a company, as a private sector company does not have the solution to everything in this issue. The part that we can contribute to, fairly limited, they are involved in first and foremost science because we are a science company and we believe that we can do good science to solve some of these problems. In other areas that we can do good would be to educate the farmers. We see farmers are the key ingredient of making this happen for the future. And most of our strategy, if you will, around various countries and geographies are farmers education. And we need to be able to reach as many farmers as we can to impart on them the knowledge of farming and the knowledge of technology. And the more knowledge they gain, the more money they can make and the more sustainable they will be. And the more young people are going to stay in the farm sector because of that financial incentives. So they are all interlinked. Let me ask Frankie to address this issue as well. I mean, your business is all about interacting with people on the land. What are the challenges involved there? How do you frame this conversation? Yes, thank you. Well, as we inventarise the problem and the potential, the problem, as you mentioned just now, that in the next 40 years we need to produce as much as what we produced last 4,000 years. And we have about over 300 million smallholders in Asia out of the total 400 over a million all over the world. And these smallholders basically are the most vulnerable ones. They are independent farmers. They are all what we are discussing here. The technology availability, the ICT is not being given the right time, and they don't have that sophistication to adopt this. So thanks to actually World Economic Forum to introduce new vision for agriculture, which address about food security, economic, what you call it, opportunity, and the environmental issues, environmental sustainability. So these three actually can all come together with the model that we have already introduced in Indonesia, so-called partnership for Indonesia sustainable agriculture. So the platform that we form is like an association with very good guiding principles and very good discipline. And the focus is basically on the, we allow working group from private sector to lead, including leading these smallholders, and certainly the government is back up, involvement is very, very important. In case of Indonesia our ministers has been very much involved to the ground to solve the problems, and helping to put the policy right to change the policy to support this initiative. So the whole idea is how to make sure that all those good things, including capacity building, will be done in modular basis. Modular means that, like McDonald's, you find all the solution there, including good agriculture practice, making higher yield, how to get in, get the financing, which is even, let's say, the government is saying that please give the financing to them, but the people in the branch they don't want to give because they do not know whether they can get the money back or not. So out of those instructions about three to four percent only been given out to the farmers. So this is a very good solution, what we have, the PISAGRO. In the beginning I was very pessimistic, but now we have already about 11 working group in Indonesia. And I think this working group is working very well. And we have, every quarter we have all this working group presenting their progress in these three meters. We said 2020-2020, 20 increasing in nil, 20 increasing in the income of the farmers, and 20 percent is reducing of the emission. That prioritisation of, I guess, outcomes is a very important part of policy setting and something that really needs to be addressed because I'm sure that different people have different ideas of what those priorities should be. Let's put that on hold for a moment. We'll take a short break and come back and talk about that in just a second. Welcome back. Let's talk about the priorities involved in setting policy for the future within the context of all the challenges we've described. One of the things that you mentioned just before the break there, Frankie, was the number of small holders of farm. And I just want to talk about land distribution for a second because the idea of yield improvement has surely got to be rooted to some extent in size. Commercial agri business is the most efficient production method that seems to be out there. And yet in Asia the average farmer holds a very, very small piece of land. It's very disparate. Do you see a future for greater consolidation of production, of land, of farming effort, or is Asia going to have to find a unique way of solving that issue? Well, yesterday we have the full day of the starting off of the Grow Asia Agriculture Summit. And thanks to the Secretary was very hosting this event. And basically we have a few examples that from the Philippine points of view, we learned something that they have small, what you call it, the farmers holding small, small farm. But they aggregate that together. It becomes like an enterprise. So they aggregate like 10 hectares, 15 hectares, and they can consolidate all those ideas, all those good agriculture practice and make it into the one smaller enterprise. In case of like Indonesia, we are doing this from the cooperative point of view. So for example, in palm oil, we have planted 9.2 million hectares in Indonesia, the whole Indonesia, where number one in the world for production. Out of that, 43% is small holders. And half of that is about 2 million hectares. It's independent farmers. So called independent farmers, they just plant without any supervision. So their yield is very, very low. One hectare normally is about 5 to 6 tons per hectare. And their yield is only 2 hectares. So we are trying to introduce so-called innovative financing to help these farmers to replan. But to replan, we need to make sure that they are under the one cooperative, few families which have 2 hectares each, under one cooperative so that the cooperative can, we can give good agriculture practice. We can, as a, what you call it, big company, we guarantee the loan. So that the, yes. Let me still be different because the whole financing issue obviously keeps coming up in all these conversations that we have. So we'll give that its own time for a second. But let me, Estrella, ask you for your perspective on that relationship with the farmers and what we've been talking about here. Yes, actually I would like to respond to your question about the land consolidation. Our collective thought for us in the Asian Farmers Association, we need to organise ourselves into clusters, commodity associations or commodity cooperatives because the cooperatives, either production cooperative, marketing cooperative or multi-purpose cooperative, they will be our vehicle, our instrument so that we can do production enhancement, we can do linkage to the market, we can do food processing and value addition to our products and we need the support of government in terms of policies for cooperatives, incentives for cooperatives, incentives for social enterprises, especially led and directed by farmers. These are the issues involved. But have you seen such a cooperative model working somewhere? Is there a template? Yes, in the Philippines I always tell this inspiring story of a cooperative in Bicol, one of the most awarded agrarian reform cooperatives. So they started without land, the government awarded them land through the comprehensive agrarian reform programme. They started to do land, they planned about how to use the 800 hectares of land.  Minister, let me ask you from a government perspective though, how do you consider the question of land use and the question of trying to increase yield while maintaining some fidelity to farmers interests? When land is the most important issues for any farmers and likely in Asia, in Vietnam, many Asian countries, we are going to have small owners for a long time. Even in industrialised countries you can see also there are many small owners. So our task is to assist farmers to have clear right with land so that they can be sure in making investment, long term investment so that they could use land titan to borrow credit from banking system and etc. And we have problem how to promote large scale commercialised production with small owners. There is some way to do so. That is strong cooperation between farmers and businesses. In Vietnam we are carrying out a programme so creating last field owned by small owners. But I also agree with speakers that it is very difficult for businesses to work directly with many, many small owners. We need someone in between to assist both farmers and businesses. This is an issue that has come up a lot. Institutions that can sustain and manage dialogue between the interested parties appear to be a key from everybody's perspective. Why are we having to talk about that? Why do those institutions not exist already? I think that we have good idea but another problem is to carry it out in order to help it effective. First we need to have stable organisation, farmers organisation, not something for very short time. That is why it needs an urban policy environment, legal framework, enforced legal framework and also a lot of attention, organising effort from government side. I was going to say that we actually have a programme in Vietnam in the Tan Hoa province where we work with the small holder farmers into gathering into a larger plot. In fact it is a two five hectare plot of land where we are introducing new hybrid rice seeds into the community. We are working with the farmers in the community to introduce good agriculture practice, planting those new rice seeds and then hopefully it will grow at a much better yield than previously. In fact this programme is ongoing and we will see the harvest within next month. That is a good example of us continuing to engage with the small holder farmers aggregating into a larger lot and allow them to use mechanised equipment to plant the seeds. I think that is an excellent point to observe that when we look at these programmes where helping farmers consolidate and go into larger management units that may be more efficient, we have to make sure that the interests of the investor is aligned with the interests of the farmer. I can imagine situations where an investor may come in, it could be a seed company, it could be a pesticide company, fertilizer company, whatever, that could have short term or medium term interests that may in fact not be compatible with the longer term interests of the productivity of the system. So I think when we look at those models and I think we have to explore those models, we need to make sure that our interests are aware of them and that they are aligned. I think another opportunity for the development of these areas that are populated by small holders. I think there is a real opportunity for novel entrepreneurship where it is that space between many farmers and a few outlets. There is a space in there that can be filled by ag services companies that are taking advantage of the newest communications technologies that aren't stuck in the past model of extension of research results or what have you, but in fact are creating a new business model for the rural sectors. I think that is going to be a key success to driving the change in these rural areas. It will be a bit like how the cell phone revolution completely supplanted the land line industry and I think we are looking at that kind of rural revolution. We are talking about changed business models. It might be a good time to introduce this idea of financing change options to make life easier for farmers and producers and the businesses that are attached to them. So let me throw this out as a general question to the floor. Anyone want to weigh in on this? Are banks serving the interests of the subject we are talking about adequately? If not, what should be done about it? Anybody? Well, if I may, this is the way, again, this grow Asia, the platform is very important. As many of the companies like Dupont and many other NGOs are doing a lot of good things, this platform provides the place for people to talk and to find solutions and the solutions are on the ground where the farmers are. So the farmers we need to work using the working group as what the model has been proven to be progressing well. So all the good ideas will be there and we address all the problems. So like the banks, why they don't want to give the loan? So we address that. So if we as the big corporation will link to guarantee that because we are coaching these farmers, we make sure that we deduct some of those income for the banks and then if we have also working with the insurance like Swiss 3 yesterday we discussed with them, how to ensure if there's any crop damages from the extreme weather. So all those components will be put into so-called a modular. So we create that as a modular and then we can duplicate that and expand that model. Melissa, what does the Vietnam government think about? I remember that yesterday one of the Philippines agricultural ministry representatives was saying what we're trying to do is cut out the practice of farmers having to turn to middlemen for usurious loans in order to try and stop income leaking out into financial transactions. What's Vietnam's view on trying to finance the small people? In Vietnam we are trying very hard to provide credit to farmers and the volume of credit has been increasing very fast. That has very strongly developed agriculture for the last almost three decades. But when we talk to farmers many things say that they need more credit and then we are trying to assist both farmers and banking system to meet and to work out better scheme and I think that first why the bank are reluctant to provide credit to farmers because there is very high risk to deal with many small holders and agriculture is risky business. So what government should do one is to take measure to reduce risk in agriculture say to prevent diseases to bring up infrastructure to cope with drought or flood and also to work with market to have more stable prices and things like that but at the same time to assist farmers to have better cash flow and I think that insurant system need to be improved as well. You mentioned drought and flood that a nice point to jump off into the issue of climate change I started off by saying it's probably the biggest challenge of all and after this we'll come to the floor for some questions for you guys but let me just throw it out again just for anybody who wants to pick it up because I don't know where to begin with the issue of climate change I mean it seems that we've only just even got to the point where the majority of the world is willing to accept that we need to act so having got to that point now how do we act for the farmer, for the agricultural community for the challenges that we've been talking about someone tell me what's the issue of climate change? Everyone wants to go, let's above that. Okay well I think that we have a pretty clear idea of what's going to be facing us we know there's going to be floods, we know there's going to be droughts we know that seawater is going to be intruding we know that night time temperatures will increase all of which adversely affect crop productivity we also know that within our crop species there is sufficient resources to breed into our plant and animal sources of food to withstand these stresses it's not something that's done overnight it can take a decade, it can take 15, 20 years but the fact is the tools are there and with a bit of ingenuity we know we can create it now the question is the framework, the social and policy framework institutional structures will they be in place to take full advantage of the potential so I think that the bricks are there, the mortar is there but the question is do we have the architects and the patients to build what needs to be built? Let's ask the minister When I think that climate change is affecting agriculture affecting us already and that influence is increasing and what we should do now the most important now is to make everyone aware and especially to inform farmers, every farmer and I think the best response must be from everyone not only from the government and of course the government have to take action as well and we need to choose non-regret things and carry it out to assist people to respond to climate change Is climate change a big conversation point amongst farmers? Yes, of course we don't turn with climate change but we know that unpredictable weather patterns has affected so much our crops and our yields and our harvest and this is how we see it and we have discussed this in our association Agriculture is very much a contributor for climate change but it's the kind of agriculture that is chemical intensive that is what we call industrial agriculture and therefore the solution will be more sustainable more environment friendly agriculture one that protects the environment but also produces gives us higher yields so that we can have income and therefore we will continue to farm and we will encourage our children to farm so this is the framework, the kind of agriculture that we think we should go to address climate change we can adapt to climate change but we can adapt it through sustainable agriculture approaches environment friendly ones and when we do this then we also help mitigate climate change because these practices also reduces greenhouse gas emissions and this is the main contributor to climate change Before I throw it open to the floor please prepare questions if you wouldn't engage with our audience but let me just give Frankie a word on this and sing Chan as well Frankie your company, rightly or wrongly is very much engaged in this conversation the use of land and its contribution to the issue of climate change what do you see as being the priorities and the issues here? Well I think sustainable agriculture is the only answer and certainly how can we really across the board do the good agriculture practice that is our effort together that's why the public private partnership is very, very important But earlier on you broke down your policies into a percentage attribution of importance to various issues are you attributing enough of your focus to the issue of climate change? Well in terms of Indonesia policy itself there's no more peatland plantation that's already we already put the policy in place no slash and burns we only plan in those area which is already degraded land so these are the things that we're working together with the government and the NGOs to make sure that out of those 188 million species planning how many hectares is for conservation how many hectares is for vegetations so all those has to be managed in the right ways And final words here sing Chan before we go So to us the climate change again is an emerging issue and it is to be well defined and then solutions also more structured and defined but some of the things that we are looking at trying to mitigate would be as we had mentioned earlier about 30% of the climate or greenhouse gas is connected to the agriculture sector so if you can find a way to farm it with more sustainable manner you can reduce that greenhouse gas emission Secondly we as a Dupond is looking at how we can convert some of the waste by waste and coming from the crop production convert that into a field and in replacement of the deplatable resources and if we can find a good way to do that I think it will contribute towards reduction of climate change problems and specifically we are in the process of commercializing a technology called a cellulosic ethanol production technology in the United States and we hope that this technology can be propagated to other crops in the future where the technology continues to evolve so that is on the mitigation side but just one more thing is on the crop side itself there are also technologies to enable us to produce crops that are more climate resistant soil let's say flood resistant or drought resistant or maybe shorter maturity date so that it can consume less water and less input materials fertilizer efficient for example those technologies are actually there, they are being evolved and if we can really define these needs well we can actually perfect these technologies and contribute towards that as well We have skimmed the issues no more touched on the surface of a lot of things here but I am sure there is plenty of people here who have different questions please let's grab a microphone there My name is Goon from Cambodia Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry I have been inspired by this panel to hear about the agriculture transformation in East Asia as Transwyr mentioned I think fundamentally from the changing or transforming the people how to make the people change we could not just simply tell the people misuse the resource or not use the resource but how to use the resource wisely and by inspire them to change the way how they think how they act and how they behave and from the previous from yesterday Grow Asia Agriculture Forum I have heard a lot about the resource about the knowledge available but how to transfer this resource to our target group I mean the farmer so therefore farmer capacity I would like to emphasize the fundamental key for the future change That's a key question that we actually tried to address in terms of that relationship between the farming community and from our experience implementing the proper policy in Cambodia for the last decade We have learned that we could not just simply enrich people's lives just ensuring their land tenure or resource access but also how to inspire them the self-help initiatives and support to the innovative capacity continuously in the ground I would like to hear that from them Thank you very much for your contribution I think the Secretary makes a really important point and that is that for people to take up a new technology it's going to have to be in their self-interest whether we like it or not and they're going to have to perceive an interest and it's going to have to be something that benefits them in their realm of experience If we talk about sea level rise 150 years from now we talk about our great-great grandchildren are going to resent us quite frankly that's not going to impact on the decisions we make today If we know that the decisions we make will improve our livelihoods will improve the environment that we're living in and we experience every day then I think we will move forward but until we're able to translate the challenges of climate change the impact of it and the difference that we as individuals can make and how those benefits we will experience as well as the broader society and environmental experience we're not going to get very far but I think we can do that Let's take another question John Pang from NYU Stern The panel actually began with a good summary of the extent of the demand for food that we face in coming decades and one part of the answer which I'd love to see you address is the role of trade in this Now the food sector is notoriously one of the most agriculture in particular food is one of the most protected sectors in ASEAN for example there is no rice market and each country protects that market quite strongly In food production for example last year I think Indonesia imposed a ban on the export of food I'm not sure that helped the farmers and in total I'm not sure this is helping such policies which have the aim sort of a good aim of ensuring food security I'm not sure they help total agricultural output across the region so we need to address food security in total we clearly need economic rationalisation of production across the region I'd love to hear the panel speak to this point Thank you Let's put it to the minister if we could for a second because the government aspect of this is very important Are your trade policies supporting or hindering food security? When in Vietnam we believe in free trade and open door policy Vietnam-Arri Canche developed sustainably for the last three decades including food production and now they say Vietnam is exporting country so clearly in order to have farmers to have enough income to continue to produce more rice we need to have more market so that's why from Vietnam perspective we only support more free trade Frankie, I mean you're not the Indonesian government minister but can you speak to the idea of these policies that the questioner mentioned? In the 2010 I launched food security service so-called Feed the World and our president changed the name so-called Feed Indonesia and Feed the World so what it means that certainly we need to take care of our people first but it doesn't mean that we didn't care for the rest so what it means that food security of course every country will take care of their own citizen but what we are talking here is how can we through the potential of what we have which we can see Indonesia has big potential because most of the yield of our small holders farmer are very very low and the wastage that we are talking about the transportation of the horticulture lost in transportation is about 60% so if we can save all those things we are able to help our neighbouring country so certainly we would like to promote the age because the Asian community is coming next year so this the grow Asia the purpose is for that also but how can we in each of our country really enhance the potential of all those yield that we can come up then we can talk about how we can exchange Other comments? Just very quickly I think that it is very difficult to change national policy across the countries and we have to recognise that but it is when we talk about free trade we are talking about possibly taking care of the national policy going beyond that how we can get the trade to be more freer and that has the effect of increasing production because it allows the countries to optimise the kinds of crops that they produce for example Indonesia and Malaysia produces palm probably not going to be optimised in production up in Myanmar or even Northern Thailand because just the climate and the soil conditions so it is important for countries to allow some of that trade so that we can actually maximise their competitive advantage I like what I heard Feed the Indonesia then feed the world and I think each country could have that kind of slogan for us farmers what we want for our country and ASEAN countries is to be caring to be caring society for farmers because the farmers are one of the most majority of the sector in the country so we have experience in free trade so we know that there are winners and losers in free trade in the Philippines for example our onion farmers our garlic farmers have been losers in this free trade so we want our country our government to care for us and to protect us and to see how we can win and how we can compete There is a whole deeper conversation to this one but I want to get some more questions Just very quick I want to come back I think and this is a heretical comment but I think that we need a commodities exchange particularly a rice futures market we've been trying to work on that for about five years and we were basically equated with the great Satan why would you want to have a futures market you're going to get speculators in but the problem is there's no way for the farmers to hedge their harvest to secure their covering their cost and I think we need to have a regional discussion on developing a rational rice exchange that would have a futures component that would have contracts exchange and we get that then the farmers well actually if they can participate in it can actually be big gainers and stabilize their financial environment That's the question of the buyback Exactly Good morning I'm Ed Francisco from BDO a Philippine Bank I just wanted to go back to basics and I think you are addressing it because here in the Philippines we have a requirement to lend 20% to agriculture and agrarian reform and yet most of the banks do not comply we even pay the fines because we are afraid to lend to the farmers it's bad so my question is to the panel is there something we can learn from the rest of the countries or is there something that WEF can do to make it easier for the banks to lend we have so much liquidity here and yet we don't lend to the farmers because the risks are too high so what are the solutions maybe Thank you Well this is exactly the way the PISA agro the partnership of sustainable agriculture in Indonesia that WEF launched addressing those issues so the number one we need to give this farmer collectively through the cooperative a good agriculture practice so that the yield will go up then after the yield goes up then we can deduct the money to pay the banks so this is a very simple theory but how to do that I think that is what we need to sit down as a working group and addressing all those issues together so in case of PAM well in Indonesia has been very successful because of that thanks to World Bank support during the 80s and now we are number one in the world Okay another question Hi there, I'm Sam Johnson from Global Shaper from the Christchurch hub in New Zealand I'm from a farm I'm from a crop farm there and over the last 10 years pretty much all around us has been converted to dairy farms I just wanted the panel's view on what you see the agriculture industries from Australia and New Zealand contributing to Asia in the next 20 to 50 years and where you would like to see our priorities our government is very much focused on milk exports and I just wonder where from the perspective here you'd see the priorities laying Anyone in particular you want to address the question too? Not necessarily Anyone care to talk about priorities here Minister I mean how do you determine the shape of that market from Australia When in case of Vietnam dairy production is developing fast but we are able to provide only 30% of the demand in the country by our self that's why we are importing milk and milk powder from Australia, New Zealand and as well as cows so that we could raise here I think we hope that we can share experiences to assist farmers in Vietnam to produce more milk but at the same time we will maintain a trade between Vietnam and Australia and New Zealand in terms of milk for example and we hope that two countries are kind in supporting also continue to support moderate among our countries Hi, I'm Jerry Atelana from Manila hub as social entrepreneur of Gawd Calinga Enchanted Farm Village University in the Philippines My question is how can we inclusively include the farmers in the chain because most of the time big corporations are just dealing with the traders and of course these traders we don't know how much they're getting it from the farmer themselves because considering the Philippines there are like three to five layers of traders so how can we enforce it is it the business people to enforce it or the government or how can we facilitate it so all the farmers themselves I mean will be from the farmers organizations will be to build our capabilities to participate more in the value chain to do processing for example of our products and then link to those who are into it so it needs a lot of study lots of analysis and lots of capacity building but farmers organizations can play a role in partnership with a private sector and of course with the enabling policy from the government Other thoughts? My thought is that in the value chain in fact every component of the value chain has its own value add the key is to allow the information flow so that the value add is appropriately compensated so a trader is getting in your implication higher than fair profit because the information is not available to the farmers and so on and so forth so if we are able to through knowledge base to communication to improve the value the information flow through the value chain it will make it a lot more efficient In Vietnam for the last four years under one economic forum sponsorship the government is working with 15 international corporations to on public-private partnership scheme we working to assist farmers and get them involved in value chains and I see reasons are very good we were able to increase income of farmers and assist them to increase productivity and at the same time we also achieve reduction of emission so PPP what we are talking in this forum is very good modern for future I think so Time for a couple more questions Hello, my name is Ywito Yamada from the Tokyo Global Shapers I want to ask you a question how to make agricultural business sustainable here in the Philippines I know that in the Philippines the rice prices is about a dollar per kilo when we compare and benchmark that with some others like Cambodia and Thailand it's almost like 50% below the price so as free trade like expands and maybe also the ASEAN integration happening up very soon in 2015 as well as a lot of the businesses in the Philippines would be swiped as well I wanted to hear your perspective on how to make this sustainable here in the Philippines Any thoughts? Can you repeat the question it's not very clear The essence of your question is how to improve sustainability options in the Philippines sorry say again especially when ASEAN integration happens with ASEAN integration as ancillary thing Well I mean you mentioned the rice situation I think that's a very very very good question and it enters into the realm of technology politics interface and as we've heard from others rice is a strategic commodity it is a political commodity it's been the prices are distorted the trade is distorted it's opaque all of these conspire to make for a very distorted rice price now if ASEAN does open up it's rice rice trade what will have to happen first is that there's a level playing field that the policies that allow farmers to produce their rice crop whatever subsidies would have you that those farmers that there are not farmers who are benefiting through closeted subsidies and therefore their rice can enter into a global trade at a much lower price which is effectively a subsidized price I think what we need first to get is transparent policies so that the prices can be compared favorably and then the efficiencies of different production areas that we talked about earlier could then be balanced I think that's going to be until we get the policies in place that are transparent such that the true costs of production can be related to the cost of sale or the price at the point of sale then we can get a balance but until we have that transparency it's going to be recriminations it's going to be closet subsidies and we're going to have problems for the foreseeable future quick one Hello, I'm Gibran Global Shapers Community from Bandungha, Indonesia I want to give one opinion and one question Thank you very quick, please Maybe just one opinion for perspective for young people One of the problems in agriculture is the poor engagement of young people in agriculture In my opinion, the reason is because being farmers is not cool I'm a farmer and I started a company in agriculture engineering one of our product is E-Fishery E-Fishery is automatic feeder that can sense the fish appetite and connect it to the internet So when you see a young man play with his tablet what are you doing? I'm controlling my fish farmers How can you do that? Because I have automatic feeder that can sense the fish appetite and that is cool I think that is what farmers need the more affordable sophistication and it's not just about cool features but it can reduce the 21% cost of feeding and it can prevent the overfeeding that can practice environmental friendly and that is one of the solution in agriculture from the perspective of young people Can I ask one question? Very very quickly From Mr Rijaya In Indonesia I see that the most strategic in Indonesia is property development in agriculture and the scenario has has enormous land and enormous agriculture so when we build we create the buildings we lost our agriculture land how you as the private sector in agriculture and property development see this and how government in Indonesia the policy is stable Very good question Indonesia we have 188 million hectares so I think the government is trying to do one map now we have three maps one is in the central government one is in the department of forestry and one is in the region so we try to mapping this into one map and then really do the spacious planning which one is for urban development and which one is for agriculture development and which one we have to conserve because really climate change is the big issues today so these are the things that I think the government is finalizing all those maps and certainly we have to in terms of the agriculture product we have discussed a lot how to make it sustainable how to use good good technology to make sure that the carbon emission is less capturing all the methane let's say in palm oil sector so we will capture all the methane from that become electricity by 2015 so basically no more methane emission there so all those kind of things is improving so I think that hopefully answer your question Ladies and gentlemen we have run out of time I'd like to ask you to join me in appreciating our panel here today Robert Siebel has some chat with us I still have some media on this and how that's done and thank you very much, I need to be in here I'm sure you can have a chat with our panel after this as well so please engage thank you


A fiery horse with a speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hyo silver! The lone ranger! For this faithful Indian companion, Toto, the daring and resourceful mask rider of the planes led the fight for law and order in the early western United States. No where in the pages of history can one find a greater champion of justice. Return with us now to those thrilling days of yester-year. From out of the past come the thundering hootbeats of the great horse Silver! The lone ranger rides again! Jack Allen's five-year prison term had ended. The 22-year-old ex-convict was hurrying across the walled yard of territorial prison for the last time. He had nearly reached the big gate when Chaplain Davis called to him. Jack! Jack, wait a minute! Chaplain Davis! Well, I hope you've stopped to see me before you left. Well, I figured you'd be busy. Not too busy to say goodbye and wish you luck. Thanks, Chairman. I'll miss you, Jack. But I'm glad you're leaving. You going home to Texas? No. Isn't your mother waiting there for you? Yes, Chairman, but I... Well, I have some business to take care of before I go home. Now, Jack, if you're thinking of that vow you made... I made that vow over my dad's dead body. I swore I'd get the men who killed him. You got one of them. You killed Pete Egan. Yes, and for that the law called me a murderer. All right, I'm a murderer. Now, wait, Jack, wait. You've paid in full for that. And because of your age and certain extenuating circumstances, you paid a low price, only five years. Now you're square with the world. Go home. Two killers are walking around free. They killed my dad. I saw them do it. They beat the law because of lying alibis. Amos and Ozark Egan have got to pay. Jack, if you take the law into your own hands, you'll hang. Chaplain Davis, I don't care what happens to me. The Egan brothers waylaid dad and me while we were driving cattle. They killed dad, wounded me, and stole the cattle. I'm going to get them, and nothing can change my mind. You'd understand if you'd lost someone as close to you as dad was to me. I do understand, Jack. Ten years ago, I lost a sister who was very dear to me. Did you see her murdered? No. She ran away from home. She thought she was in love. I was much older than Anne. I tried to tell her what everyone knew about the man. That he was a gambler, a drinker, a cheat. Yes, a petty thief. But despite all I said, my sister eloped with that man. I looked for them, but without success. Jack, if I'd caught that man, I... I think I might have taken the law into my own hands. Didn't you ever see your sister again? No, I completed my studies and became a minister. And in helping others, I've helped myself. I've found peace of mind. My son, I've learned that there is retribution. There is a higher court that meets out justice of those who escape punishments in man-baint courts. If my sister's life was ruined, the man will pay. And so will the men who killed your father. I intend to make sure they'll pay. I've made a vow. But Jack... From here I'm going to Clovis City. That's where the Eagans lived five years ago. If they're still there... I shall pray that some power intervenes to keep you from committing two more murders. Jack's personal property was returned when he was released from prison. He had a gun and cash enough to buy a horse and other equipment. Two days of travel brought him to the northern edge of Clovis City in late afternoon. At the same time, the lone ranger and toddler rode slowly across cactus-studded plains, approaching the community from the south. They were not far from town when they saw a boy of nine seated on a rock. He held one barefoot in grimy hands while great tears rolled down his cheeks. Hello there, son. What's your trouble? It hurts. I can't walk on it. Oh, yeah, me take a look. Maybe help. You shouldn't try to walk barefoot on ground like this. I never had shoes. Oh, me see trouble. Cactus needle, sticking foot, break off. Get it out. Are you an outlaw, mister? No. Then why do you wear a mask? Because I don't want anyone to see my face. My uncle sometimes cover their faces, but they use bandanas. Oh, me, you try not hurt. Get cactus now. Oh, still. Man, we got it now. Good for you, Tutto. Now put your foot down, son. See how it feels. Oh, golly, it's fine now. It doesn't hurt a bit. Oh, what's your name? Bob, Bob Egan. Where do you live, Bob? In Crow Valley, over that way. Oh, yes, I know where it is. About three miles west of here. If you would like to ride on Silver with me, I'll take you home. Silver? Is that the name of your horse? Yes. I'd like to ride him, mister, but I'm not going home. I'm never going home. Never again. Running away, huh?  Mom is dead. So is my father. Oh, I'm sorry. Mom died last year. My father was killed in a gunfight a long time ago. I'm reckon it's five or six years. You, uh, mentioned your uncles. My uncle, Ozark, and Uncle Amos. I lived with them in the valley when I'm running away from them. Why are you a runway? They kept me locked in the cabin all the time. Sometimes they're away all night, and when they come back at daybreak, I cook breakfast for them. But they don't let me go anywhere. Even when they're home. My uncle Amos beats me if I try to go away from the cabin. You said your uncles sometimes cover their faces. Yes, sir. I heard them talking about it when they thought I was asleep. Where do they go when they're away at night? I think they must go to buy cattle because I seem to return at daybreak when I've watched through the window. I've seen them drive cattle past the cabin and into a canyon. Does this happen very often? No, sir. It only happened two or three times. Has it happened recently? Yes. They bought some cattle just a few days ago. Oh, golly. Now, get it. Here comes my uncle Amos. He's looking for me. And when he sees me, he'll... Don't worry, Bob. But you don't know how mad it'll be, mister. Oh, I've been worried about you, Bobby. What are you doing here with a mask man and a red skin? I just met the uncle Amos. Why did you leave the cabin? I'm running away. Now, son, that's no way to be. Ozark and I have tried to be good to you. You're not good to me. You've beaten me and you keep me locked up. No, no. What's the idea of making up stories like that? You, uh, get aboard my horse. I'll take you home. I don't have to go home with him, do I, mister? Please let me stay with you and Tunnel. Bob, if this man is your uncle, you'll have to go with him. Yes, I'm his uncle, all right. The boy must have been local to try to run away. Here, give me your hand, Bobby. There you are. We may see you again, Bobby. Get up there. Good-bye, mister. Good-bye. Me not like fellow named Amos, Kimisabi. No, do I, Tunnel? I think he lied when he said he was worried about Bob. Maybe him worried. Bobby talked too much. I had the same feeling. He, uh, didn't question my mask. I'd be bad for little fellow to have uncle like that. Maybe there's some way we help him. Sounds as if his uncle is a stealing cattle. Me think same thing. If that could be proved and they were jailed, the judge in Clover City would have to find a good home for the boy. We try to prove he can rustle cattle. Yes, Tunnel. Easy study, big fella. But first, we need information. I'll wait at the edge of town while you go to the sheriff's office. Ask the sheriff if there's been any rustling around here. Easy, Scott. Easy, Tunnel. Then we'll go to Crow Valley and try to learn more about Bob's uncles, who wear masks and buy cattle at night. Come on, Tunnel! Meantime, Jack Allen had finished making a number of inquiries in Clover City. After learning that Amos and Ozark Eagan lived in Crow Valley, he left town. It was twilight when he drew rain at the top of a steep slope. He saw a cabin in the valley below. Oh, look at that. See? Bleeding his horse, he made his way downhill. He found a dense stand of underbrush at the bottom of the slope some distance from the cabin, where he could conceal himself and his horse. Screened by the brush, he took up a position where he could watch the cabin. He planned to wait until darkness was complete, then move closer to the cabin to look inside. He wanted to make sure that the Eagan brothers were there. The Lone Ranger and Tonto were traveling over the same route a short time later. Was the sheriff in his office, Tonto? Uh-huh. Him there came a copy. May I ask him about rustlers? Has cattle been stolen in the last few weeks? Sheriffs say there are many raids. Him thinks small gang rustle cattle. Maybe two, three men. Two or three men, huh? Not right. Him says only small number cattle stolen each time. Then the Eagan brothers may be the rustlers. Ah. Their valley have put a slope. Who's over who? Who's got a slope of a hole? Yes, and there's the Eagan's cabin. Ah. Someone light lamp inside. I wonder if both of the Eagan brothers are there. How we get close to cabin to find out? Amos Eagan mistook me for an outlaw. Isn't that right? They're going to the cabin posing as outlaws. Oh. Why we do that? To try to win Eagan's confidence. We'll learn more about their activities. Oh, boy in cabin, Tima Sully. Yes, he probably is. He think Bobby feel plenty bad. Him learn you outlaw. Him think you're friend. I'll not deceive him any longer than necessary. Come on, sir. Come, Scott. Come on. From his place of concealment, Jack Allen could see the mask man and tonto. He watched them guide their horses downhill, wondering if they worked with the Eagan brothers. Deciding to wait and see what the newcomers would do, he moved stealthily to one side, hoping he would not be discovered when the two men reached the bottom of the slope. Meanwhile, in the cabin in the valley, Ozark and Amos Eagan sat at a crude table eating their supper, while young Bobby hustled to keep their plates and coffee cups filled. Amos was telling his brother about finding Bobby with a mask man and an Indian. That masked outlaw looked like a good gun slinger, Ozark. I wish we had a man like him working with us. Did you say the Indian's name was Tonto? Yeah, that's right. Isn't it, Bob? That's right, Uncle Amos. Did you see the horses? Yeah, I saw them. The mask man had a white stallion. White stallion? Name's Silver. How'd you know, Uncle Ozark? Was the engine right in the paint? Yeah, it was.  That mask man's no outlaw. He's more dangerous to outlaws than all the lawmen in the West. What do you mean? He's a lone ranger. A lone ranger? What'd you tell him, Bobby? Well, I... Answer me. Let go. Let go of your mind. Speak up. I told him I lived here with you. What if? Did he ask any questions about us? Yes. Please don't twist my arms. What'd you tell him? I told him you brought cattle at night. Why, what did you say we did with the cattle? I said you took it to the canyon. Ozark, if the mask man's a lone ranger, he'll put two and two together. He'll know all about it. He knows the answer. Maybe he'll go to the law.  No, no! Ozark, listen. The door... He never barks unless someone's nosing around this place. I'll look out the window and see who it is. Who is it? Two men riding this way. Recognize him? It's getting dark. Sort of hard to make out their faces at that distance. Oh, I can... Ozark, it's the mask man. So that's the lone ranger. His Indian pals with him. Ozark, this is our chance to get both of them. The curtain falls on the first act of our lone ranger adventure. Before the next exciting scenes, please permit us to pause for just a few moments. Now to continue. When Amos Egan saw the lone ranger and Tonto approaching the cabin in the valley, he grabbed a six-gun from a nearby shelf. The outlaw was beside himself with rage. He smashed the glass in the cabin window with a barrel of his six-gun. I'll get him this time. No, no! Don't shoot him! Please don't shoot him! As Amos fired, Bobby threw himself against his uncle, grabbing his gun arm and sobbing.   Get back!  You can't hit him with a six-gun. Grab your rifle and wait until they're closer. The wild shot had been a warning to the lone ranger and Tonto. They turned Silver and Scout quickly and raced toward the base of the slope. Head for the shore of those rocks, Tonto. Yes, sir! Oh, he's asleep. Easy, sir. Easy, sir. I'm shoot with rifles. We reached these rocks just in time. Get your hands up, Mr. He must have been. You two Indians, you're both covered. They'd better do as he says, Tonto. Ah. Who are you? My name's Jack Allen. Are you working with Egan Brothers? Working with them. Not by a jug full, Mr. But that mask marks you as one of their breed. If you'd been behind these rocks for any length of time, you'd saw them fire on us when we approached the cabin. I saw someone open fire on you, but I didn't know for sure it was the Egan's. There's no other cabin in this valley. Must have been the Egan's.  I'll host to my gun.   They murdered my dad. When did that happen? Nearly six years ago. There used to be three Egan Brothers. I spent five years in territorial prison for killing one of them. Now I'm back for the other two. You'll hang for murder? That doesn't change my mind. Amos, Bobby, look. Someone opened cabin door. What's Bobby? Ah, he came this way. Follow name Amos. Try stopping him. Amos Egan stood in the open doorway of the cabin, sharply outlined against the lamplit room behind him. Instead of stopping at his uncle's command, Bobby tried to run even faster. He was making a final desperate effort to reach the Lone Ranger. As if he had read the boy's mind, Amos Egan drew his gun. The masked man snatched his rifle from its scabbard. Amos shouted a final warning. Amos was about to fire when the bullet from the Lone Ranger's rifle hit him in the shoulder. The shock sent the outlaw staggering back into the room. He stumbled and fell. The three men standing at the base of the slope didn't know that in falling, Amos had struck the table. The oil lamp had smashed to the floor. You'll have to bring that boy to safety. Cover me, Toto. Well, I go after Bobby. Easy, sir. Watching the cabin, Toto saw Ozark appear at the window. The Indian fired. Ozark grew back. Meanwhile, the Lone Ranger was approaching Bobby Egan. The masked man leaned far from the saddle. Easy, Silver, steady. Grip the boy firmly and lifted him off the ground. Then he brought Silver around in a tight turn. Come on, Silver! And went back to the safety of the rocks at the bottom of the slope. Oh, Silver, oh, Easy, steady now. Oh, golly. I didn't know what was happening. There you are, Bobby. Easy, steady, Silver.  Thanks for covering me, Toto. Ah. They're going to kill you in town or two, mister. They think you're the Lone Ranger. Is that true? Yes, Bobby. The Lone Ranger. My uncle said they'd kill you before you could tell them all about them.  Well, thanks for the warning, Bobby.  Yes. And they're awful mad that I told you about it. And they were scared, too. They're guilty. They should be. Sonny, are you related to those Egan pole cats? Yes, sir. They're my uncles. Well, I reckon it's not your fault. You must, Bobby. Look at Cabin. He's on fire. I wounded one of those men. I'd better investigate to make sure they're able to get out. Easy, steady, big flood. Come on, Filly. The Lone Ranger raced across the darkening valley. He drew Silver to a rearing hull. Silver hull, easy. Near the rapidly burning building and hit the ground running. The front of the cabin was in flames. He circled to the back to try to find another entrance. The back door was open. A glance inside showed that neither Amos or Ozark were there. By that time, Jack and Tonto had arrived with Bobby, who rode double on the Indians' horse. Who? Who? Who? Are they in there? No. Their horses are gone.  What canyon? I know the place. It's back of the cabin. I heard my uncles talking about it lots of times. They built a shack there. They said it's the best hiding place in the room because there's only one way to get in and out. Are you sure of that, Bob? I'll take you there. You'll see for yourself. Instead of taking us to the entrance, lead us to the canyon rim. Look over the land from there. The moon was beginning to rise when the riders halted on the upper rim of the canyon. Bobby, who was riding double on Scout, pointed his finger and said, There's the canyon down there. We'll just mount and go over to the edge. You'll be able to get a good view from here. And there's a shack. And look at those stairs at the far end of the canyon. See the entrance? Yeah, she was right, Bob. That narrow gap was the only entrance. Those skunks could sit in their cabin and hold off an army. As long as they stay in the cabin, we can't hit them from here. And there's no way to get to them without being shot. This cliff is not so steep. It's over 40 feet. A few men rode along the trail leading to the entrance. The eagles could poke their rifles through the window of the shack and pick the riders off one by one. Thought it would ride for the sheriff in Culver City. Try to persuade him to form a posse. Tell him you'll lead him to a hidden herd of stolen cattle. Will you take him to entrance the canyon? Yes, and leave your lariat with me. I may need it. Here. Here, Robo. Thanks. Easy scout, easy puller.  Mr. those lawmen will ride right into a gun trap. Not if someone reaches the back door of the shack and takes the eagles by surprise. How can anyone reach the back door when there's no way into the canyon? I'll show you, Jack, as soon as I've tied these lariats together. Why do... You mean you'll drop those lariats over the edge, then slide down them? Yes, that's right. The bakes of the cliff covered by darkness. But when the moon's fully arisen, they'll spot you for sure. I hope Tonya will be back with the sheriff by that time. The rope's ready. Now fasten it to that tree. Be careful, mister.  Don't worry, Bob. You stay with Jack until I return. Gosh, I hope they don't see him. So do I. Bob, are those two fellas the only relatives you have? I have another uncle, but I don't know where he is. He's my mother's brother. Uncle Ozark and Uncle Amos are my dad's brothers. What happened to your dad? He was shot in a gunfight. I reckon he wasn't much different from our uncle Ozark or Amos. Bob, was your dad's name Pete Egan? Oh, yes. Did you know him? Yeah. Yeah, I knew him. Bob, Mask Man's reaching into the rope. I'm going down there and give him a hand. If you go, I'm going too. You stay here. The Lone Ranger told me to stay with you. I can let myself down hand over hand. All right. Come on. A short time later, Ozark Egan and his brother Amos took before the front window of the shack, watching the canyon entrance. The moon had gradually risen, illuminating the narrow gap with a brilliant light. Neither of the two outlaws suspected that the Lone Ranger, Jack and Bobbie were crouching behind sheltering rocks in the rear of the shack. Rather, they're a place of concealment. They heard approaching hoops. The Egan brothers also heard them. The Mask Man in the engine must be coming here, Amos. That sounds like more than two riders. Maybe there's a party with them, eh? They'll have to string out a single file to get through the gap. Pook your rifle through that wind and get set. We'll be able to pick them off easy. Draw a bead. Let the first man through the entrance have it. Hey, the back door. It's Mask Man. Get him, Ozark! You already have a wounded shoulder, Amos. You want a broken arm? Oh, I'll not make trouble. You all right? Yes, Tutto. Me bring Sheriff. So you're the Mask Man the engine told me about? Yes, Sheriff. Here are two prisoners for you. The Egan boys, eh? I always thought they were crooked, but I never could get anything on them. I'm sure that if you examine the brands on some of the steers at the end of the canyon, you'll find that they came from several different ranches. If that's the case, they're the rustlers. I figured only two or three men were involved, but I never could catch the thieves or find their hideout. You could have found it the same way we did, Sheriff. We spotted it from the top of that cliff. The only way to that cliff was past the Egan place in the valley. Amos and Ozark made sure no one ever got that far. Hank, Slim, put handcuffs on these two. Are my uncles going to jail, Sheriff? That's right, Bob, but I don't know what we'll do with you. Don't you have any other folks? I have another uncle. I've never seen him, but I have a picture of him. My mom kept it with her, but she gave it to me before she died. She said he's my uncle Tom Davis. She was always just seemed to write to him on account of my dad being crooked. Here's my uncle's picture. He's a minister. Minister? You say his name's Davis? Yes. Let's see that picture. It's Chaplain Davis. Do you know him, Jack? I know him. This picture must have been taken a long time ago, but the Chaplain hasn't changed much. He's a territorial prison. I'll take Bobby to him. Would you? Oh, gosh. Gosh, that's great. Isn't it, mister? It's fine news, Bob. Thought I'd go as far as a prison with you and Jack. Good. Now my deputies and I'll herd these eagorn farmers to jail. Thanks, mister. You too, title. We were glad to help you, Sheriff. Come on, boys. Let's get going. Two days later, Jack Allen and her Chaplain Davis' office at Territorial Prison. You're back? Not because I'm in trouble, Chaplain. Then you changed your mind about killing the eagorns? I went after them and I got them. Oh, I... I prayed that you wouldn't commit murder. A man on a white horse changed my plans. Before I knew what had happened, he fixed it so as we got Amos and Ozark legally. Legally? They're in jail for wrestling. Chaplain, I'm here because of Pete Egan's son. Pete Egan was the man you were convicted of killing five years ago. That's right. I met his son when I went after Pete's brothers. The boy's mother's dead. Then he's an orphan. Yes, he stayed with Amos and Ozark. I reckon he had a tough life with them. Too bad. He has no other relatives. He had this picture of another uncle, his mother's brother. He said his mother gave him this picture just before she died. I think you'll recognize it. Well, let's see it, Jack. Great Scott. You must have had that picture taken 10 or 12 years ago, Chaplain. I had it taken for Anne, my sister. Bobby's her son. He's outside your office now. Well, I must see him after all these years. Why? You're my Uncle Tom. You know me. I know you're from your picture. Mom talked about you all the time. Oh, gosh, I'm glad to find you, Uncle Tom. I want to stay with you. If you'll let me. Merch you. Oh, Bobby, we'll be together from now on. Jack, how can I ever thank you? Don't thank me, Chaplain. Thank the Lone Ranger. This is a feature of the Lone Ranger Incorporated, created by George W. Trendle, produced by Trendle Campbell Muir Incorporated, directed by Charles D. Livingston, and edited by Fran Stryker. The part of the Lone Ranger is played by Brace Beemer.


I'm Fabie Meekings and I'm a research fellow at the University of York. Hi, I'm Mariam Alpitti, I'm a research fellow at the University of Cambridge. I grew up 15 minutes on the district line from the Palace of Westminster but it might well have been another world because I grew up in social housing and the Palace of Westminster is literally a palace. When I started or applied for this scheme I knew about the idea of science influencing policy. I didn't know really how. I've learnt that the people who make the policy are just people with a job like I've got a job and it really yeah definitely empowered me, it definitely made me feel like I can talk to these people, maybe I can use my research to make a difference. I think the special part of the Paris scheme was to shadow and follow one of the MPs. I think this is something unique and that you cannot see in any other schemes or in any other workshop and courses and it was really fantastic to see first-hand and touch-first-hand these impressive work that they are doing daily life and it is so remote, it seems so remote from what we do in science but actually can be interconnected. For everyone there are things background knowledge that we have that politicians don't and many of them don't even have a science background they might not have done any science past GCSE so there's a particular way of thinking that we as scientists can bring to Parliament that is really valuable.