Okay, welcome back everyone. The Cube's coverage of AWS re-invent 2021. We're here live in Las Vegas for an in-person event. Of course, it's a hybrid event, virtual online, many people online. A lot of people here on the event, a lot of action, cloud going next generation, mainframe transformation, more analytics, more chips, everything's faster and cheaper and getting better and better in the cloud. We got the great coverage, we got two great guests here. We got Justin Hooper, Vice President of Global Operations Infrastructure and J.P. Perot, EVP of Telecom Media and Technologies and AWS Executive Sponsor for ATOS. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me on the Cube. Thank you. So what do you think about the conference so far? Pretty good, like a lot of people here. Super exciting. 27,000 people showing up. It's amazing. Real people, not workers. It feels almost normal. Yeah, I can't believe the turnout. Got a great topic, you guys working together, got mainframe, you got analytics, transformation. Let's get into it. Let's start by introducing what you guys do, your company and why you're here. J.P., we'll start with you. I can start, okay. So I'm living in ATOS, all the cloud business and telecom media technology. ATOS is a big company, it's a service and technology company, 11 billion euro business. And we are living all the transformation to cloud and also all what is related to hybrid cloud transformation. Also with security. We are number two in the world in terms of security and cyber security. We have developed also a long lasting relationship with AWS. We have been an advanced technology partner of AWS for now many years since 2013. And we have developed a specific program regarding mainframe transformation and migration. So this is why we are super excited to be here with you just in today. Thank you, by the way, for having Ingram Micro with us. Just in. I appreciate it. It's good talking to you, good to be here. And I'm Justin Hooper. I work for Ingram Micro. I run their global infrastructure and IT operations. Ingram Micro is one of the world's largest technology suppliers, technology, technology solutions and cloud platform and services. Well, great for the intro. Thanks for that setup. A lot of action going on. You guys are recently purchased. You guys got transformation in the cloud. What is the movement to the cloud? Take us through the current situation. Yeah, we see a big acceleration and especially due to COVID situation, we have seen an acceleration of transformation to cloud. There's still a lot to do, a lot to do because there are many business critical applications which have not been transformed. Also, especially all the applications which are sitting on top of mainframe. As we were in the discussion we have with Ingram, the moment is how we can help Ingram with some of the applications that are on mainframe to transform and design a future. Justin, take us through the transformation that they're helping you with. What's the key challenge? What problem are they solving? Take us through the specifics. Yeah, it's interesting because I'm actually a lover of the mainframe. Most of the people at AWS would think the mainframes didn't they put the rockets on the moon? That's old technology, but mainframes are still fantastic platforms. We have great success, great resiliency. With ATOS we are on the most modern chips but there are a lot of restrictions. You really have to size your mainframe for your peak workloads. You don't have the ability to separate segments, scale horizontally and then there are really new wants like it's hard to get resources that no mainframes. To be honest with you it is just there's a people issue there industry wide and we're not different than any other company and compete for resources, both on the system side and on the programming side. And we really want to look at how we can make a massive leap if we're going to leave the mainframe. How do we start a journey where we can end up really being able to take advantage of horizontal scalability, the ability to have a utility compute model where we're really paying as we go because that is the opposite of how the mainframe model works today. Talk about the refactoring because I know I've covered a lot of mainframe stuff with IBM in the past and how banks are still using it. Everyone, they're real applications, they're mission critical. How are they integrating into the digital transformation? Containers, Kubernetes are hot right now. You're starting to see a lot more integration. How do your customers and how do you guys see refactoring happening? I can see the integration but how does the refactoring come in? There's really what we've learned with our partnership is there are really a couple of ways to do the refactoring. You can convert your old cobalt hole to something else like Java and there are tools and companies out there that do that. Or you can really build a plan where you can effectively emulate your mainframe on commodity computing. And through a relatively deep analysis with ATOS, the recommendation that we're looking at is that ability to first get off of the hardware, get off of that reliance on the platform but not jump all the way to modifying your code to Java. There's not a lot of value in going from cobalt to Java for example, if you're not making improvements in your programs, adding business capabilities. So the journey starts with get off the hardware but then it allows you to go and say, we're going to break up those complex programs, we're going to separate the data differently. And once you do that, you can start to take advantage of containers and start to separate yourself even more and really get into the cloud. But there are ways to piece your way through that. You know, that's really good insight, JP. I'd love to get your reaction on this too because what Justin's getting at is what we hear a lot from experienced CIOs of large companies that have a lot of existing stuff. And the theme is and the word they use is you don't want to touch the white hot core. Meaning it's so mission critical that if you mangle it too hard, touch it too hard, a lot of bad things happen. So this idea of pushing things out to the cloud that are on the edges and then work your way slowly in is a risk management and practical approach. No, exactly. You said it right. It's exactly risk management. So, and Justin explained it, there are different factors which come to the end point in terms of decision. There is one issue regarding competencies because there is a lack of competency in the market. There is what kind of business critical haps you have. There is a transformation as such, you know, as Justin explained, you can record or you can move, you know, to a different platform. So each time it's a program. It's a program and analysis that we do with our customer. Advising the customer about based on your critical application, what is the right journey? What is the right transformation to do the right risk management? Justin, you're taking the hot core.  You're like, yeah, what's your take on that? Well, yeah, I agree with you. And that fear and certainty and doubt, it's kept people on the mainframe for a really long time. The technology has caught up and the expertise where just as JP said, you've got to be really careful in the way you plan it and you've got to make sure that you can always get back. And so the approach that we're looking at taking is, is you're able to accommodate more risk if there's an easy rollback plan and some of the new technologies and processes are going to allow that. So, you know, if I screw this up, I get to go find a job someplace else. So I'm aware of the white hot core, but I'm confident it can be done.  You can do both. And I like your approach. I think that's a success path that people are talking about. It's well documented. But at the end of the day, we're back in distributed computing. I mean, I want to get to this at the end, but I want to give you guys some time to think about it. As cloud becomes everywhere, as Adam Sileski talks about, it's not just about mainframes. It's a distributed computing paradigm. So we're going to come back to that, but let's get into the SAP Redshift. Because I think that's something that you guys are working on. I think that's worth calling out here. Analytics is huge. Tell us what's going on there, how you guys are working together on that. So we have designed a high level of competency around SAP, and especially the migration and SAP Redshift. So we have designed this program also with AWS. And this is something we are discussing at the moment also with Ingram. So we see an acceleration of this trajectory. It has been also highly pushed by SAP as well. So we are one of the strong partners of SAP. And we see many customer engagement to this transformation at the moment. The cloud really gives you a lot of advantages when you're doing migration, especially around pre-existing software like SAP. It's pretty big, complex, mission critical, so you can throw compute at it. A lot of cool capabilities. Yeah, that's true. But you still need to configure a lot of things as well, because you need to customize and you need to really fine tune what is it going to be available to the customer needs and to what you need in our company as well. And this gets back to what Justin was saying about emulation.   You can build these super applications that combine things that you never would have thought was how possible. SAP running on Amazon or porting on the Redshift when you need it. So you have a lot more flexibility. This is now the new normal. Correct, correct. Justin, maybe you want to also comment on that. You know, the great thing about being on Redshift is we picked that as a platform for our data warehouse a number of years ago and there were basically analytics capabilities, but what we're seeing a lot here at re-invent is as Amazon is catching up with their out-of-the-box ML and AI capabilities in Redshift. So it feels good that we picked a platform that they're growing the capabilities in right as we're advancing out of more of the traditional analytics and trying to go to that machine learning. And one of the things that we work at the ATOS on is migrating off of SAPBW and saying maybe we don't need that as a data and reporting platform if we're solid with Redshift. And we certainly don't need both. So we're working with them to look at the case to move all the way to Redshift and then we can run our analytics and build ML in that. And you know, that was a big theme in the keynote, this purpose-built capabilities. It's almost like building a building you got iron, steel girders made for you. You've got this now, better value in the platform to build on. This brings up the notion of distributed computing. In a way, there's the same game, different generation. I mean, isn't it? You've got to integrate. There's still transformations, inflection points. This is current. I feel like this now more than ever is a time where you can actually roll it all together with a little help from your friends or if Amazon's got something you don't want to reinvent the wheel. What's your reaction to that? Because we've seen the movie before when it's hard. Now it seems easier. But it's not. We see three layers coexisting more and more. We see that the application on data will be spread over three dimensions. There will be edge computing. There will be private cloud and there will be public cloud. And we see more and more pressure in this direction that many customers are saying, hey, where should I put my data? This point will go and be processed at the edge. This point will be processed in the public cloud. There's also one of the capability we have in Atos. We are able to advise customers about what is the best way to process your data. If you have a lot of latency, you can process at the edge. There is less requirement, you can process in the public cloud. So we see this coexistence of model. Justin, what's your take on this distributed computing throwback concept? Because look at the rise of companies like Snowflake. Where'd they come from? They're on Amazon. They picked the cloud. Now they're on going to other clouds. You can build a super cloud. You can actually build this out now faster. What's your take? Yeah, my take is that it's a pendulum and it swings back and forth. And like you said, there was client server and then everything was web-based and a lot of things look a lot like the mainframe. Put everything in the cloud and then attach to it. And then all of a sudden, you know what? We need edge computing. Pull some stuff back out of the cloud and put it where we need it. So it's going to continue to evolve. What I have noticed that I like more is the major home one swings and statements like I want to get out of the data center business and go to the cloud. I hear those less and people are realizing there's hybrid, there's purpose built computing like you said, and we need to make sure that we're putting our data where it needs to be and putting our compute where it needs to be. And that's going to change on our customer base and evolving technology. 5G is changing the whole world around edge computing. So I'm enjoying the ride. I'm glad I'm in technology because I get to move with the ebbs and flows but I don't think we're ever going to land. I think it's going to keep going. Yeah, that's a totally fair point where it's fun as a technologist, but you're right. If you're operating with cloud, it doesn't matter if you're on premises or edge or public cloud. It's the same thing. It's just pick your use case. I want a low latency at the edge. I'm not going to move my data and stand in the cloud. Of course you're going to leave it there. If you're on premise- We've already moved workloads back and forth and a lot of companies are doing that too. I think that's what they're getting at when they talk about cloud everywhere. I think that's their way of saying, okay, hybrid's real. They won't ever say multi-cloud though. Not yet. We won't hear that here. All right, quick summary. What are you guys doing? What's the future hold for the relationship? You guys got a good thing going on? Take us through what's the future look like? For me, it's a big thank you for the partnership with Ingram. So we are extremely excited by what we can do for you in terms of advising your transformation. And I hope that you get the right service and the right advice for matters. Yeah, it's been great. We've appreciated, we started as a mainframe customer and now they're helping to advise on how we could get off the mainframe. I mean, really cannibalizing one of the other areas there in the spirit of evolving and partnership. And you guys are bringing a ton of expertise in the way you guys attack the account. And we centralized through our account team is very helpful. You're very aware of what's going on on all sides of the business. Well, congratulations. That's a big part of the theme and keynote today on an item about mainframe transformation. But at the end of the day, it's about modern infrastructure, modern application development. Getting out, having set the table for the next generation. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. And you guys want to get a quick plug-in real quick for the company? Talk about HOS and Ingram. Give a quick plug for what you guys are working on. Give a quick plug about what you're working on. Give a quick commercial. One minute about the company. One minute, yeah. At HOS, we are really transforming and leading the industry in terms of secured transformation to cloud. Security will be more and more important as data is everything about where is the value. So we are really making sure that our customers they can maximize the value around data. Transformation to cloud in a secured way. Justin, JP, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate the insights. Don't touch the hot core. Make take your time. Have a good time. 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