What's going on everyone Sam here with late in sports card driven 22 tops Allen and get their chrome baseball hobby 12 box Full case break number 5 random team style Here's a looking at your random results as always you can find these on the website under the results tab as well as the link That's currently in that chat. So good luck here everybody. Let's do it. Yeah. Good luck Caleb. Let's do it Buddy got the Giants in his first break over here. Not bad. Not bad at all. I got a couple of Like Elliott Ramos has rookies he's got rookie autos in this too Since I have room to keep all my I feel that man I feel that more than anything If you have the room for it, dude cards are awesome. Is that a storage? All right, good luck everybody into Spock Shane Bieber mini David Ortiz Soto, there's green light Mike Schmidt and Is that Ronnie? Yeah, Ronnie Chang Steven Kwan rookie Rhonda Cunha mini How'd you love top-loading man? Feel the eight Denali and Ernie Clement Base rookie Wander Franco rookie mini refractor Matt Hamilton Got him Bradley Beale refractor The cast the autos and stuff beer New It's a blue Rob Riggle go into the non MLB spot to 150 and Amos Otis for the Royals that is the 99 on the green mini. That's a little packed there Then guys just seven teams left in our first Don Russ PYT and all this above the Celtics and all the elite Yes, you got the shot at the Tatum Pierce passing the torch auto Josh Donaldson gold Salvi Perez to 50 for the Royals nice one there One auto a member box supposedly it's not bad actually Inside the park Winder Baez Corey Seager mini Eddie Matthews Pink is Rad Lopez to 199 non MLB Be real J-Ram Bobby Whit rookie green Jerry or Joe West nice one there to 99 umpire Basin Bay, I know I know Vaughn to see prison breaks listed on March 11. It's crazy Awesome Brandon Woodruff the hawk So awesome that prison breaks are listed now Tyler O'Neill That is Hideki Matsui Golden Zimbrero Matt Birling Jake Cronin worth There's X Fractor Juan Yepes nice one there. There's your case hit going to the Cardinals Grats on that Zachary Ket CJ Abrams rookie and Yon Munkata You can also expect in the recap. We'll just do like if there's like a big rookie 99 under What time's the world baseball classic on the America Yeah, you can throw that Jaren Duran Rookie to Darvish, Cedric Mullins, Bryson Stop rookie Jeremy Pena mini 9.9. That's awesome. Did work since it's in Taiwan. They're all on really fantastic We're like the only people in the world that benefits Chris Sayl to 99 nice one there for the Red Sox green Brendan Donovan mini and Roger Clemens the Rockets inside the park Shall we Josh Low, Kailan Kanerco, Dona Sasezuki Rookie, Cubs, Jaren Duran Rookie Todd Hilton and Byron Buxton Euler Anthony Rendon, Matt Manning as well for the old Tigers Max Freed Ichiro Rias, there's a Reese Hoskins to 199 on the pink nice one there Phillies King Sons. Oh, is that on ESPN? Is that televised? Because that might actually be worth watching King Sons, that's like actually a good game. That way is KD out though Yeah, true true true true pink is Jim Tomey to 199 to the Phillies Cortes's favorite. Yep He was Blue is Sendog to 150 What'd you say? Him and I'll be re-learning this. Yep, hold on. Thanks Thank you. Come on There's B-Rail, Ace and Luba, Lee Pass. Alright, yeah Warriors Bucs. Yeah, Pass on Warriors Bucs with no Yanis Verlander, that is Olympic National Park, Joe Nahr. You want to you want to slide us your Lee Pass information wand so you can watch There's Green, Juan Yepez to 99 Yeah, fair. That's actually not a bad point Yeah, of course the Yanis listed out after you made your classic Joshua. You should just love how that always happens Yeah Good God Got him. Phoenix spot came in Down to 11 on the other Phoenix break. Yeah, just one Three group breaks with spots. There's a gold Luke Ehrig. Nice one there for the Yankees to 50 Goldie Verlander Thought it was at nine Eric. Someone said it was at nine. Vaughn said it was the Torque rookie, Jared Walsh, Minnie, Nicoladolo, Joe Honduran. Oh Oh Dominican Republic versus Venezuela, that's a good game. Bryson Stott to 199 for the Phillies Matches on the same one. Do you know anybody know what channel that's on? Probably George Brett, Gabriel Reyes, Minnie Rookie, Castillo, Darvish Puckett, FS1, Fox Sports 1.  Yeah, Dylan put on the MLB network because it said MLB baseball Joe Morgan, Lou Brock, and I was like really the Padres versus the Angels spring training is the world baseball classic Hunter Green Perfect That guy needs help too CJ Abrams Runs okay, the best player you can draw don't broadcast Out of this probably Culeo Rodriguez rookies I would say That'd probably be the best Seawalk There's a few it there's a it's a good rookie class in here that most of the rookies in here are pretty solid Vladdy Tucker, Willie Maze, most of the rookies are pretty solid There's a few that are obviously a bit more desirable Wanda Franco. He's a good one Bobby Whit Orange 3 of 25 there you go KC on the mini congrats on that Bill D there you go Bill A little odd but of course TJ Friedel Bobby Whit's another good rookie Woodruff Strowman by college but I it's very true very true on there's a good college basketball on it's a good sports day There's hey suits a little Zardo to 199 Landon Donovan CJ Abrams rookie and blue Jayrod to 150 what a box Congrats on that Seattle that is going to Bill D. I know it's unbelievable text how much Bobby Bobby Whit base.  Thank you, buddy. Appreciate ya Yeah, Bobby Whit Sapphire base first do like a hundred dollars Wow So I have a bowman five like a true just base bowman first that I bought for like 10 that I want to send one PSA everything Yeah, I will Hey, buddy get on that. Oh, yeah, they should flex it Because what about when KD like when KD's debut it wasn't on for the Suns like it was the raptor It was like the Blazers pelicans or something like they should absolutely put flexing in Greg Maddox for the Cubs to 150 nice one there on the true blue Ron Santo Tony Oliva There's a pink Miguel Cabrera to 199 Hunter Green rookie and around inside the park MJ Melendez Brooks Robinson there is Bill Mazurowski gold to 50 nice one there color match for the Pirates Chase the rainbow out of this Here's Ron Santo to 99 JJ Madah Jevich. I don't know if they're in Chrome this year, Joha I don't think they're in Chrome and if they are they're super short-printed I would say I don't think I fold when I've ripped like three cases of this probably Harper ducks on the pond saw Bobby Whit. They've got to be pretty rare then Charlie Sheen T.J. Friedel, Megan Minnish, Charlie Sheen, Cypress Hill Electomics for the Diamond Becks Orange is Rad Lopez 8 out of 25 There's Shane Boss. Yeah, I don't know Joha. I don't know off top my head to be honest Becks Bobo We're at the game. There's like you know how like everybody Shohei Refractor Not like every team has like their like hype person that's always like doing stuff there in the break of the magic The magic guy had like a magic jacket on like a fake giant black chain and a bucket hat He had sunglasses and rich goes after you have to break that's how you have to break next time Here and I was like, yeah, sure that won't get distracting Sixers gone Four to go Four to go Seven to go And ten to go That is it There's a few of the eights to 199 non-mov Matt Chapman God, what's my favorite product to rip lately Probably iMac football that just came out recently so that's probably the best Blue Josiah Gray to 150 Salvi and Yuan Moncada It's greatest legend in baseball Probably Babe Ruth I think I think it's David Ortiz Please Sue Hawkins David Ortiz Not David Ortiz Legend Not David Ortiz Is David Hermione David Ortiz It's definitely not I don't know if that's him or David See you don't even know the guys You know Babe Ruth, George Herman Ruth No, I don't know David I don't know I don't know Mike Troutmini, Duke Snyder Wayno, Hunter Green, Minnie Rookie You need to knock it up Serious? There's Gold Frank Thomas to 50 Nice one there Doc Ellis Brendan Donovan Rookie as well Yeah, Ricky Henderson, Tony Gwynne, those are good answers Spencer Torpleson Saiko Yeah, Doc Gooden, no Saiko, no Bellinger Castillo I mean Hank Aaron, Willie Mays Stan Musial David Ortiz Ed Williams, yes David Ortiz, no It's a big yes Bladdy Jr Doc Gooden, I love that guy Inside the park, Minnie Ken Griffey is a good one Ken Griffey Jr For sure He's coming to the Mike Trout The World Baseball Classic team Is he really? Yeah That's cool I didn't know that That's actually pretty awesome Or at least I think he was out there with all the The Classic Probably get out there and play If we needed him to Oh my god, he can still hit him Absolute bombs Timberwolves gone in number 17, thank you Appreciate you guys, we've got Oh, look at this Look at this picture Get him out of here About a way to just ruin your day Oh my god There's a green Hermon Marquez To 99 for the Rockies Minnie at Shohei and Tyler O'Neill Best starting pitcher of all time Man, that's a tough one Oh boy, I mean Like there's so many I don't think it's Nolan Ryan Randy Johnson's a good one That's really gonna get That would get Forrest really fired up Forrest is very But like with Good reason that is To 150 is Corbin Burns Green, Steven Shrossberg to 99 Minnie Sam's a hater No, I'm not a hater, but like I honestly agreed with everybody Until like I started looking up Nolan Ryan stats For like his entire career I don't think he's the best Of all time Yeah, Forrest is probably on his way right now He just got like the bat signal The Nolan Ryan argument signal Outside of his house Greg Maddox is a good one I mean you gotta give some love to like Kristy Mathewson and Walter Johnson To some of the old guys You gotta give them some love Like Randy Johnson probably would be my pick Greg Maddox is a good one though Greg Maddox is a really good one Yeah, I think Bigunit Is definitely a good one Definitely the most intimidating Yeah, oh my god, yeah Brandon Crawford to 199 Yeah, John Croft being his fans No, I agree, yeah, Nolan Ryan Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young Which is kind of like he probably should Of won a Cy Young at one point or another But Jesus, you scared me Bye Jake, who's the best pitcher of all time Best pitcher of all time Gold, Cedric Mullins the 50 What is he saying Stephen Kwan No, I'm not, I'm just saying that like I'm just saying that like The only reason I have this opinion is Because of Forrest Nolan Ryan is It's not that great because Like never won a Cy Young A ton of walks, really bad war And everyone's gonna be like Nye, nye, nye, nye, nye Advanced stats, Jay Rod Yeah, Randy Johnson Yeah, Randy Johnson Yeah, Randy Johnson Greg Maddox, get out Get out of my breaking studio I don't wanna see you again until When do you work next? I'm not here tomorrow, thank god When do you work after that? When do you work after that? I work on it I don't wanna see you Wednesday Better be gone by the time I'm here Jake, go to HR right now Bye Jake I'd probably put Holiday Top 20 Yeah, dude, yeah, for sure He was good, he was dominant The name Nolan Ryan really is A ticking time bomb I mean I'm not anti I think Nolan Ryan's a great pitcher He's one of the greatest of all time But I think it's hard to say he is The best pitcher of all time He should be known as the best pitcher of all time For what he did to 199, Robert Matura Chris Sales Pedro's up there What Vaughn said though, Pedro didn't have If he had a longer career It was prime last and longer Shane Bos Cal Ripken Smolton Glab and I agree, Tex I think there's 20 better pitchers I think there are 20 better pitchers than Andy Pettit Spencer Jorkelson Nolan Ryan's definitely intimidating, I'm not saying he's not I'm just saying stats wise Again, this is a conversation for Forrest I don't have as a heart of opinion As Forrest does on this If you really wanna get Sold it a couple months ago That's what I was saying James I like Walter Johnson, Walter Johnson's way up there Three to go now Nice, three to go on Don Trade turn Austrian Nice, that's awesome Not Pedro, Edgar Martinez Bob Gibson Bob Gibson is great, Walter Johnson Sandy Kofax is another one Charlie Sheen Cy Young I'd put way up there He has too many losses because he pitched all the time I guess you could say that with Johnson and Mathewson Adrian Beltran to 150 That's what here is going to be a green Wander Franco to 99 72 of 99 for the race Chris Soil I don't think Kershaw is good enough It depends on the city Seawalk, it depends on the city It depends on the teams that are playing It's very dependent on a lot of things Brandon Marsh, Minnie Rookie Kershaw is great, don't get me wrong Kershaw is another great I don't think he's in that debate It really depends on the team How good they are Here is Bryson Stop That's pretty cool, Manny The holiday is awesome Do I redeem myself by saying Kofax? Yes, you do, Jake It's an actual page, another good one Ethan Roberts to 99 Tim Hudson was a stud Pink Ryan Mountcastle to 199 Lindor It's League or Champions League Oh yeah, absolutely Kofax is a good one Kofax is definitely a good one Don't hate on me either I don't say he is the best pitcher of all time but severely underrated is Mr. Steve Carlton I love me some Steve Carlton Four Saiyans This best second baseman of all time I wouldn't say Bijou is the best second baseman of all time It's my favorite but I don't think he's the best The best of all time Yeah, this is Go-Fills O'Neill Cruz That says Go-Fills There's a big difference between the letter L and the letter N Just so you know I know what he's trying to say I agree, Ramar I agree that Jeff Kent is super on He had most home runs by a second baseman of all time Is that a red? That is a red Mour Five of five Congrats buddy Nice red Mour coming your way I'm kind of surprised Kent didn't make the whole thing Roger Clemens There's Bradley Beale Bonds the Go It's hard to say Yeah, it's kind of a color match for Mour too Sammy Sosa, Jeremy Pena, Rookie It's kind of hard to say yes or no It's a Bonds debate Gladys Sr. Gladys Sr. is great Do we pull the satchels? You gotta talk about the best right field arm You gotta put him You gotta put Roberto Clemente Yeah, he had a cannon Eric Davis played center But he had a cannon Hank Aaron's a good one I know he was a really, really bad guy But like Ty Cobbs Another one you gotta put up there His career batting average is insane How about an orange O'Neill cruise? 16 of 25 On the auto Congrats pirates Heck yeah dude That's going to big swick Congrats buddy We'll get that magged up for you right away That is an awesome cruise Gorgeous cruise Willie Mays is another good one Another really good one Willie Mays is Hey kid That's a good case Another really good case Another red is Alyssa Nair Nice one there Throw that in Rika too Hey Oscar Yeah there's good autos in this man Aaron Judge blew to 150 And a green mini Jonathan India to 99 Really good pox here too What about Willie Mays Hayes? Willie Mays Hayes is Now There we go Donovan Tell Martin Major League Major League Wow MJ Melendez O'Neill cruise rookie I'm not a big movie guy True Hats for bats Tom Blavin and Jackie Yeah, Teddy Ball games He's definitely a goat Raptors gone in 17 I think we're down to just 2 2 and 3 And then 8 on Phoenix Thanks, appreciate that Seawalk Yeah, it's a good little community we got here for sure Happy to have you in too Best catcher ever Like defensive, I mean Johnny Bench You can make a case for Campanella Lolito Santiago Green, Robin Yacht Pudge for sure Pudge defensively The catch at home It was a Marlin They got trail-roaded Came up with the gloves There's a Pudge base And they're speaking like Yeah, Pudge was great Nick Allen Yachty's up there Yogi Berra is another good one Sandy Leone Kyle Higashioka Christian Vazquez Gary Sanchez You think you have to put in the top 10 Think you're discrediting him Is that Mel Ott? Yeah, Mel Ott to 99 For the Giants Javi Lopez with the Braves I think he died Rest in peace Javi Lopez He got killed I think I don't remember what it was I think so, I could be wrong about that Javi Lopez Look that up really quick Javi Lopez, Labor Torres To 199 Could be thinking of somebody else But I think so He is in fact alive, okay never mind Javi Lopez is alive Still kicking He is alive, he is alive My bad, Alec Thomas Spreading false information Gabriel Rice I thought I saw that somewhere He had passed away, and I apologize It was a bad call, I'm sorry I'm glad he's not, believe me Nicoledolo, I'm glad I'm wrong I'm glad I didn't say, oh man He's the man, can't wait to see him And he's passed away Rod Rookie on the back Marv Albert Steve Carlton, nice one there That's 2-150 CJ Abrams Mini Hey everybody, wish you a legal happy birthday Yeah, happy birthday, illegal Happy birthday bro Happy birthday, illegal Talk about a big hit on your birthday Birthday mojo Byron Buxton to 199, Seth Beer Rookie Winder Pedro, no JD on the back Okay, I was So wrong about Javi Lopez, and I feel bad That's terrible He's still kicking So wrong Man, jeez Sorry Javi, you're watching Javi I do apologize man, I'm glad I'm very, very happy you're alive Jeremy Pena is batting 7 To be making a public line up Is that, wait When does that start? 7? And then our games at 9? What a great slate of baseball we've got tonight That's awesome dude That is really awesome Oh I know, I know Happy birthday Sean Sean is turning the big 3 today Sean is turning the big 3 today Happy birthday Sean Why would you take away from the legal's birthday Because it is your birthday There's a Roger Maris Gold to 50 For the inks Here at Cole Refractor, true Alice Rookie Bluebop, J-Rod, Soto, Machado Hernandez, Devers, Wander, Pena Candelario, Gary Sanchez There's no beating That blind up's too good So they have pitching, their pitching isn't great Joe Ryan Gold to 50 Rookie for the twins That's silly dude Elliott Ramos, Minnie Nice one there, Caleb Yeah, they do have Alcantara So they have the Cy Young winner too Is their pitcher Do they have Urquiti or Do they have Christian Javier, I think Javier might be there What's up Happy Place Check out the Grom Yeah, Javier, that's who it is Like a World Series hero So they have like two like top 15 pitchers basically too So great That's where the U.S. I think is going to struggle though U.S. pitching's not great The line up's good, the line up's very good Pitching's going to hold us back a bit There's a Brandon Lau To 150 Blue for the race, LeMayhew and Leo Uryx Orange, another Brandon Lau Getting that entire 15 of 25 And J-Rod Puedo, Ronzi Contreras, Dio Castillo Brian Abreu, Rafael Montero Hephanaris, geez dude Royce Lewis, now I have not played the new season actually Is it good? Is that any good? Yeah What's new about it? The map's not new, right? Well they put some new places, yeah Nazis, new guns New guns are one I really like the one Pink, Josh Donaldson to 190 on But I forgot what it's called already Eddie Matthews and Noah Cindergaard Two boxes to go here guys Let's see how we're looking on spots again Timberwolves gone Another two Phoenix spots came in Two, we are down to very few group Break spots left everybody We are down to two, one and six Two teams to go and number 17 Which would be the Bulls and the Wizards And then just one team to go And number 18 and then Six Phoenix spots left Phoenix H2 spots Except the game is David Ortiz It's great All Famer The Legend of Boston Wonder Franco The Legend of Boston Larry Walker The Legend of Colorado Green Buster Posey to 99 Manny Ramirez Welcome people I say Larry Walker David Ortiz Orange Ernie Clement Mini Rookie to 25 Nice one there for the Guardians Be Real What are you doing? I'm losing focus here Matt Veerling Rookie Kyle Thurman Munson I'm coming to chat one out of there Scared Really scared Like you always do Always get bullied out There's Green DJ Mugs To 99 Nice one there Nine MLB spot I kind of stored it up You get bullied out everybody So it's making fun of you Crying and you're gone It's rough, stop I understand Pink, Scott Hanson to 199 Fall asleep I'm like mid type Fall asleep Save it Blue is Aaron Ashby For the brew crew Two One, 99 150 Royce Lewis I gotta go with Garcia right now Heal's been hurt for a while Heal comes back and isn't good But right now, Debbie Garcia He can't even make the starting rotate He's like a reliever He's supposed to be like the 2-3 In a rotation He's only starting when guys are hurt But I still have Pretty high hopes for Luis Heal I still do have very high hopes for Luis Heal I still do have very high hopes for Luis Heal Definitely CJ Abrams Mini Rookie That's Andre Dawson Two Phoenix spots came in Three Phoenix spots came in We're down to three, two, one, three Two, one, and three Oh my god I've never wanted to ban somebody More than I want to ban illegal Right now for that My god You might have to use your one free timeout pass Were you here when I did that? No, I think it was Donnie Illegal had a Uh Personal I know Luis said ban him That is What was I going to say I wrote illegal a note and it said This note is good for one free timeout Chill Ryan Can we watch Stranger Things at all? No Rachel Balkovac to 99 Austin Riley Yeah Yeah, you don't strike me as somebody Like I never watched Game of Thrones No Blue, Bryce Harper to 150 Sayas Izuki Breaking Bad I've maybe watched That's one I think you'd like I started watching it It's slow in the beginning But trust me It gets really good There, got in on that Ryan Reynolds JV Austin Meadows Gold, Cody Bellinger to 50 For the Dodgers, nice one there Congrats, L.A. Wormburner, Heather Sean hits out on the golf course Oh, he was bad one day dude Me too, Vaughn Me too, dude I used to like full on like sweat during episodes It's so stressful Really? What? Breaking Bad There were times I'd be like legitimately like Sweating during episodes Yeah, it was just There were times like I watched it my freshman year Of college first because my roommate was like Really? I was like I gotta watch a new show like should I start Breaking Bad And he was like dude do it 100% So I was like alright and I started and there There were times I watched like three straight episodes And they were all in our piece I would just be like boom boom Right in a row, yeah Jeremy Panyamini Such a great show I hear it all Yeah, I was talking to Dylan about it Wander Franco There's a Blake Jameson The 199 Bass and bass Oh, Brian it's so good So good I wish I could watch it all the way through again I mean like for the first time you know what I mean So good, I've watched it I think twice All the way through Really? Yeah, and then I've watched it like Episodes just here and there and stuff too Yogi Yogi Two packs left guys And then we're on to the next break There is Steven Dubner The 99 On the mini It's an author Whitmerfield It's going well here Yogi Very well man Let's do a quick recap guys We've got Nolan Ryan Not Nolan Joe Ryan Alyssa Nahr Joe Maurer It's an O'Neill cruise mini Pace rookie Yeah Wanyepes, thanks Yeah Bobby Whit Jr. Orange We had a J-Rod 250 for the Mariners And an O'Neill cruise Orange 16 of 25 Rookie Auto for the Pirates Thank you for the break guys Thanks again for the fill Next up we've got Bowman's Best


Is it fair to say you had a busy social life? In the evenings during that period, you went out quite a bit to benefits, galas, et cetera. Is it fair to say that a lot of those parties or benefits that would be kind of a photography line and that people would take photographs like Getty images? Is it fair to say that this document indicates that you were the grand marshal of the New York City Veterans Day Parade in 1995 in New York City? Yes. This is an awkward line of questioning. When you're doing a deposition, you're trying to get to a point where a person admits whatever it is you're trying to do. But she's doing it through leading questions. By leading, I mean yes or no answer. That's do, have, will, can, are. Those kinds of questions lead to yes or no. If you're using a more narrowing line of question, it's much more powerful. A better way to go about it would be to say, what was your work-life balance in these days? How do you define work versus life? What kinds of things did you do at publicity events? You were the grand marshal at this thing. Did you conduct a publicity event? Oh, you were. Do you remember her from there? Do you recall this photo? Who is that? Then you got the person where they can't wiggle and back up and say, what do you mean by this?


We have the biggest craft show of our lives this weekend So we needed to give our craft booth a holiday overhaul and we'll show you how we did it right now What is up a welcome back do you like to do it building or make it so do we and we have a new video each week this week We're building ourselves a Christmas cabin We have the biggest craft show we've ever been to this upcoming weekend And I was thinking that I didn't want to bring the metal racks that we normally use They're super functional and they're great racks there.  Have a cup of cocoa. Yeah Warm yourself up by the fireplace So I envisioned that I wanted this to have a wood feel to it I didn't want to use the metal racks. I wanted the wood So I envisioned a roof to go over it and then Karen was like, what do you mean a roof? I was like well I want it to have like a little overhang a little roof and I was thinking let me stand. Oh Wait, yeah, let me name standard you're like no bigger bigger Yes, but not the size of the full size of the booth or anything But enough that I wanted it to have a tin roof And he was like, how are we gonna do this the craft show I'm not trying to build a cabin in the craft show Yeah, there's no room to build a cabin in the craft show So we designed a lightweight version of what I had in my head now To be honest, I had more in my head I wanted more slats than what I actually got to build but we had to keep it lightweight We had to keep it easy to set up and take down and it still had to be functional to display all of our signs and Fit in our 8 by 10 booth space.  Yeah, it's not gonna be like a hunting cabin You're not gonna be protected from the wilderness or the weather It's gonna be very drafty and anything more than five or six wet leaves You might you might experience a collapse I mean, it's good to stand during the craft show, but it is meant to be easy set up easy take down on the go Have cabin will travel Step one we're gonna gather all of our supplies. Well, we needed a tin roof tin roof Rusty well, it won't be rusty, but it will be light We needed four four by four by eight these things were super heavy super wet and slimy Six one by four by eight furring strips a two by two by eight a two by four sheet of three eighths inch ply a Three eighths inch plywood strips that we used from our last project Two inch screws an inch of five eighth inch screws and a metal blade for a jigsaw Step two, we're gonna make all of our cuts. We're gonna start with the tin roof rested We started with the tin roof because we felt like this was going to be the hardest part and we needed to know exactly What size the frame will be now these braces or these clamps really didn't do anything. It still felt Vibrating so we decided to use these Sandbags and it really did cut down on the vibration. It was really sturdy. It was pretty easy to cut through Especially with the metal blade Getting over the humps was a hump. Otherwise it cut like a butter Yeah, it was great. We added this blue tape to hopefully prevent some shards We're just cutting both of these panels in half and this time we decided to go face down and try to get that flat Spot on the saw more flat spot on the saw than the first time and this was a breeze I mean this was super easy to cut that like no problems. It was just very loud Yeah, you can't see how loud it is here We measured out how wide it would be and after one interlocking panel and measures an exactly eight feet I'm gonna trim the plywood down to 19 inches by 40 inches to make our next cuts a lot easier We're gonna draw a line three and a half inches up on each corner This is gonna leave room for our frame piece Then we're gonna draw a diagonal line to create two identical frame sides We should just be able to cut this in half and have two tin roof sides I swapped to a wood cutting blade and then use the jigsaw and my eagle eye to split the line We have two identical pieces Three we're gonna start the stain well Kim's gonna start the stain Now I'm just staining our Wooden slats. This is that made out of that three eighths inch plywood There's nothing smooth about these boards. These boards are super rough But this stain sponge does a great job just putting stain down in every nook and crack and crevice Which is okay because I want this to be a rustic look I mean even if it snags the the sponge did look pretty rough at the end Time to paint but now Now I'm gonna paint these boards We're gonna use that same scraping technique that we used the other day for our wall the old squirt and scrape But look how great it looks I mean it's just so easy and I just love that rustic look that it gives And I think it's gonna be perfect for this rustic Like rustic Christmas rustic Christmas in the woods Christmas in the cabin a rustic manger. Yeah, it's our it's our rustic cabin. Yeah sign cabin Step five time to assemble. This is where we start making our fake cabin But we're gonna do it right here in the warehouse We're gonna do our whole set up and like mock it up. Yeah, I gotta make sure it's gonna work We're gonna start with the plywood and Four furring strips and the two by two. I'm gonna make this just like I make a ramp We're gonna rip it out and then lay the roof on so I'm gonna attach the furring strips To the back sides vertically flush with the edge Using those one and five eighths inch screws.  I'm gonna try to keep it flush on both sides Do the same thing on the other side keeping it flush with the back and Keeping it flush with the front in the front Let's give this roof something to bite into and we're gonna use those furring strips We're gonna attach those so that they're flush with the incline using those same one and five eighth inch drywall screws We're attaching one at the bottom and one at the top just sticking with the incline keeping them flush Now this part is usually easier with a second person, but Kim was off painting. She was getting ready for the craft show. I Measure it halfway down and mark the incline and this is where I'm gonna put the two by two I'm gonna use two of those drywall screws again so that this thing won't turn on me And I'm gonna try to keep it flush with the the incline And I'm gonna do the other side also the right side same as the left side I'm pretty impressed with that all by yourself I'm pretty impressed with all the painting that you did in the time that it took me to build this thing Let's add a brace in the upper back part. Yeah, just to give it a little bit more stability So we're gonna use one of those furring strips and attach it on both sides Flush with the back kind of like the bottom and this board was really work So I had to give the old reach round and this is what it looks like all ribbed out Like I said, I build it like I was gonna build a ramp time to add the tin roof I'm just gonna lay it out try to even it up and then I'm gonna pin it together using those same drywall screws You don't need to pre-drill the holes if you have it spinning hard enough and fast enough It will catch and pierce and go right through that tin All right, let's stand it up We're gonna add the feet, but I'm gonna use a furring strip to kind of level out the feet Well, I attach those to the top. I'm gonna attach the top using some two-inch screws give it a little more Bite to it a little more strength.  They were so wet and slimy We just stood this up and then put the feet in place. It was pretty easy This is touch and go for a minute Because we had to stand it up and then quickly grab a four by four to prop it up And then it was pretty heavy just one person holding one corner. I Adjusted the back leg. It was a little wonky Now we're just gonna add the slats. These are gonna be dual purpose here one It's gonna help stabilize the sides and then to this is what we're gonna use to actually hang the sides on So we're just putting three on each side I'd love to put them all the way down, but I don't have that many and I don't want this to be too heavy I want it to be semi portable and easy to set up and take down Now you might recognize these from our very first craft show setup we built these to Display our signs and we've actually had them in our shop Just kind of sitting in the corner because we stopped bringing them. They're a little heavy heavy and cumbersome But for this project, they work perfectly to be supports for the end of the slats. They're great stabilizers They help keep the whole thing steady So it doesn't tip over and then they'll display our signs just like they did before and it kind of matches the theme I mean, we didn't know it, but we are prepping for this years ago Well, and that's the same paint technique. We use the same paint technique back then that we did for the slats Yeah, there it is. There's our little love our Christmas cabin Christmas cabin Kim Step six, let's break it down and pack it up. We'll meet you on the other side Breakdown was pretty easy. I mean we just took it apart and reverse of the way that we put it together But we did leave the roof together We're gonna move the roof all at one piece. Everything seemed to fit in the trailer Perfectly. Well, we could only fit three wagons in but we can come back for the rest after we do our setup And here we are at our booth space at the craft show. We had a little surprise We knew the booth was 8 by 10, but what we learned when we got there was it's really 10 by 8 So we had this thing 10 feet deep and we had to make a few adjustments here So we're gonna assemble it and put it all together. So we know what we're working with and then we're gonna come back and Adjust the end pieces and then just kind of push them in so the great thing about this was where the slats were it was Easy just to slide them in and now it's pretty much an 8 by 8. Yeah, it's an 8 by 8 Step seven and now we have the accents Well, we got to rebuild our cabin in our craft booth space and then we're gonna add our garland our lights This is how we make it a Christmas cabin even a little fake snow on top light snow light light snow light dusting Again, this is for novelty use only Nothing more than felt snow All right now that we have it all set up. We're gonna go ahead and start hanging our signs up Just doing a little organizing to make sure everything looks nice and neat You're attached the back braces to the back so that it doesn't wobble side to side. I Just didn't want it collapsing on us. This is for novelty use only remember, right?  You'll see us plug it in in a moment. And then these are some Edison bulbs Give it an extra. Oh, there's our snow. There's our snow Some light cotton snow if I would have went double layer with that felt snow It might have collapsed on whoever was underneath it, so They added some lights on our sign This thing is poppin. Look at this. It feels so Cabin-esque now that pole in the back is gonna support some additional Inventory we're gonna hang signs back there Like you would hang them on a clothesline and that way they don't have to sit in the wagons And we'll have them right behind us to restock as people purchase All right, what did you guys think? You guys have any advice anything that we could have done differently anything else that would have helped make it Holiday themed on the cheap. Is it overkill? Did I go too far? Looking around at the other booths?  And then when they want that cocoa the funny thing is right across from us Is a lady selling cocoa go over there and get your cocoa cocoa come back over here over there and get yourself a rocking chair Go over there and pick yourself up in afghan. Come on back.  I was like, okay, I get it now We've got a cool little with theme, but I was like, but it needs a door. Where can we put a door? She wants a door. Yeah, but then Garrett had a great idea We do you have a cool door backdrop that I think we're gonna hang back there tomorrow Right before the show starts and then I think that's gonna give it that little like yeah I think it's gonna bring the door sign theme back around show you show you on social media Speaking of hanging doors and hanging with our hangers We love you guys. You know, we love our patrons so if you are part of our Patron group and our our hangers. Anya. Yeah, we know who you are Helen one of our patrons has decided we're using the term hangers. So come join us Hang out with the hangers. Yeah hang with the hangers on Tuesdays. We build we don't build we paint new projects every Tuesday live Testing them out seeing if they work see what they look like. Yeah, it's a new design every Tuesday So top tier patrons get all the free SPGs They sure do all the goods all the goods and one of these t-shirts right here these fancy t-shirts We're about out of time We got to head over to our craft booth and finish setting it up get ready for all of our customers So we'll see you next Friday, but we'll do it building to make it again Oh, and don't forget about Tuesdays where we're doing test cut Tuesdays tct I'm always on the edge of my seat. Do you saw last week's you know that I'm literally on the edge of my seat Sometimes I go too far. He fell out of his chair Do join us because today is Thursday craft show starts tomorrow So keep an eye on our social media come and say hello. Take a peek of what we got going on. Yeah, come say hi I love visitors


Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us for the 17th episode of Informed and Engaged. I'm Jennifer Preston, the Vice President of Journalism at the Knight Foundation. And we are thrilled today to bring you this conversation in partnership with Aspen Digital. When we planned this event last week, we had no idea what the state of the election would be today. And indeed, we still don't know. Hi everybody, I'm, thanks Jennifer. I'm Vivian Schiller. I am the Executive Director of Aspen Digital, which is a program of the Aspen Institute. We're so thrilled to be doing this program together with the Knight Foundation. And I'm so happy in this experiment, in co-moderation with my friend Jennifer Preston. So regardless when the counting stops and a winner is declared, there's one thing that we do know for sure and that there has never been an election like this, a raging pandemic, leading to record mail-in and early voting and a nation as divided as we've seen in generations. So the question for us right now is how at this moment in time are our vital information ecosystems responding? We are lucky to have a stellar panel of experts in news media, the platforms and their impact on American democracy. Before we get going, just a little bit of housekeeping. So the plan is Jennifer and I are going to spend the next 20 minutes or so chatting with our panelists, but then we are going to get to your questions. At any time starting right now, you can drop your questions into the Q&A. If you're watching us on Zoom, just drop it in there. We will get to them later. If you feel comfortable doing so, please add your name and your affiliation. It's just a great context. So again, it's the Q&A at the bottom and we will get to your questions in just a little bit. Jennifer, back to you. So let's introduce our guests. Sadie Warren is the executive director of the Shorenstein Center on Media Policy and Politics at Harvard's Kennedy School. And he previously served as mayor of Newton, Massachusetts so can bring a very important perspective on the importance of informed communities. Ron Winskonson, we're happy and delighted to have Charlie Sykes, who was a long-time host of a conservative talk show in Wisconsin. He is now the founder and editor-in-chief of the website, The Bulwark. And we are so pleased that Charlie was a member of the Knight Commission on Trust Media and Democracy. Also joining us today is Joanne Lippmann. Joanne Lippmann also served as a member of the Knight Commission on Trust Media and Democracy, a project with the Aspen Institute. And Joanne is a journalist and an author, a former chief editor of USA Today, Condi Nast, and the Wall Street Journals Weekend Journal. We're also delighted to have Kaye Connick, who is a assistant professor of law at St. John's University in New York and a renowned expert on internet platforms and their context, content moderation policies, which is so important now as so many people as all of us are battling the spread of misinformation and disinformation. Okay, so welcome everybody. To kick off, we're gonna ask each of our panelists to just broadly talk to us through the lens of their own experience and their own expertise, what is going right and what is going wrong at this moment of time with regard to our information ecosystems. And we're gonna start with Joanne. Joanne, what is going right and what is going wrong? Thank you Vivian. Thank you, Jennifer. Yeah, I'm gonna talk specifically about the news media. I'm gonna focus on that. First of all, let's talk about what they got right, which is, and this is a big one, preaching patience. This is something, we've all been accustomed to getting the answers on election night or shortly thereafter. The media has been, I think, quite good about saying we're not gonna know the results on election night. This is not a flaw in the system. This is a feature of the system and that the counting will go on. So I think that's been good. There's a couple of other pluses, I think that the media has been very good about not calling races prematurely. I give a hat tip especially to Fox, which has been under a lot of pressure from the president. I also think they've done a pretty good job in general of calling out or correcting Trump's inaccurate boasts about winning, his complaints about fraud. Now, overall social media gets low marks. I'm sure we'll hear much more about that. But I do wanna give some props to Twitter. I actually think Twitter has done a good job of identifying and labeling false claims and slowing the spread of some of the misinformation. Unfortunately, I have to say that the list of what the media has gotten wrong is a little bit longer. I'll just go through it quickly. I do think the biggest issue here, frankly, is a complete and total lack of understanding of the Trump voter. The media focuses again and again on the politics of fear and anger, on the misogyny, on the racism. But all of that is unfortunately is true, but what we're missing here is understanding how Trump supporters actually experience their own movement, which is very different. They are experiencing this as a positive, as a celebratory, not a negative, right? They're seeing themselves, we're patriots, we're proud, we're cohesive, we have team spirit, we have these great, both parades and car caravans. And we've got a lot of, so they're seeing it as a positive. And on a related note, there's also a real misunderstanding in the media of the Latino vote, which we have seen, which tends to be portrayed as something that's uniform and monolithic when in fact it is anything but. And then very quickly, I'll just take off a few of the others. You know, we've been, and you, Vivian, have been in the forefront of this, continuing to say we need to understand that the media projects winners, it does not declare winners. There is still confusion on that front, and I still see it in, even, you know, the AP still says it declares results. I've seen this in the New York Times slate USA Today, other major publications where they're just getting it wrong in the description. Another point, polls obviously misleading, I'm sure that will come up in our conversation today, but I wanna just reference beyond the polls being wrong. The related point here, which I think is really important, is that the other part of this is the polls play into this really, I think, harmful horse race journalism. We've seen this for four years. It's just endless particular cable conversation that is looking at this horse race that's really not helpful. It doesn't shed light and it overstates because they're feeding on all this poll information. So we're overstating the significance of the poll while not providing useful information. And on a related note to that is journalism edited by Twitter.  And so it's almost as if everybody's in this bubble together and talking to each other and amplifying each other. And often about points and issues that really have no bearing or relevance for the larger audience who they are supposed to be serving. And finally, I'll just end with the misinformation issue, which I again, will be discussing. We still haven't figured out how to effectively combat misinformation. And at the same time to also not fall into this trap of allowing ourselves to be painted as the enemy of the people and allowing ourselves to adapt that mindset, which I think is quite dangerous once if the media starts to take on the role of opposition, the opposition and to internalize that. I think that's a very, very hard position to take back then to regain the trust of our audiences. Well, Joanne, every point that you made there could be the subject. Each one could be the subject of a full day conference. There's so much to unpack there and so much to follow up there. And particularly I'm just making this note for myself. Interesting talk, talk more about polling. On the one hand, yes, horse race politics is a problem. On the other hand, understanding the voter, which obviously did not happen very well. This cycle is so important to understanding the country. Charlie, return to you now. Charlie, return to you now. What went right and what went wrong from where you're sitting? Well, I'm going to take a little bit. What is going right and going right? Well, a little bit wider lens than just the election here. I remember three or four years ago after the election, saying that everything that's happening with misinformation, disinformation is going to get worse. I had no idea. It actually has gone much worse than I thought. We're undergoing a stress test right now on all of these issues, both the coronavirus, the pandemic and the election. And I got to say that I'm not optimistic about it. Yes, all I agree with everything that Joanne said about the way the media is handled and everything. But the flood of misinformation and disinformation has increased exponentially and we are no closer to coming up with any sort of a solution for this. I remember right after the election, Gary Kasparov who's the former world chess champion, Russian dissident, I had this great tweet. He said, the point of modern propaganda is not only to misinform or push an agenda, it is to exhaust your critical thinking to annihilate truth. He was channeling Hannah Arendt talking about also the same phenomenon. And I think we've kind of lived through that over the last few years and we're in the midst of it right now. This is the stress is wars, pandemics and elections are terrible times for truth or being able to figure out what is true. And I guess the problem is, is that if you open up Twitter or you open up social media or you open up YouTube, you are gonna get a flood of information and much of it has no relationship to reality whatsoever. And in terms of the attacking your critical thinking skill, the phrase that I've heard the most often over throughout this campaign is, I don't know who to believe, what do we trust? The failure of the polls is just going to make that that much better. In terms of the pandemic, which experts do you pay attention to? What rumors, what stories do you pay? And this is a life or death issue. I mean, it's one thing to have a lot of disinformation and this information in the political campaign, but we have seen the tribalization of the response to the pandemic and fed by an absolute flood of misinformation. So, there's a big difference between wanting to get information that is true and accurate and on the one hand. And then wanting to get information, wanting to believe information that you see because it is convenient for you. And then there are people who frankly don't care whether it's true or not as long as it helps your tribe or your team. And this is what disturbs me the most. There's so much out there. People don't know what to believe, who to believe, the attack on expertise, the attack on mainstream journalism to Joanne's point about the danger of becoming opposition. I don't know what the answer to this is. I mean, we have talked about this and thought about this for years now. And frankly, I'm more confused about this than I was when we began it. Because if you have people who chronically lie and thrive in a world of disinformation and that's become normalized, how are journalists supposed to respond to that? So, we have this weird moment that we're living in where I think it's the best of times and worst of times. We have had the best journalism of my lifetime over the last several years. You read some of the stuff that's being done in the Washington Post and the New York Times and even the Wall Street Journal. These are, this is amazing period for journalism. And yet we're also living in a time when there's 40, 45% of Americans that won't believe anything that they read or hear from those sources and live in a completely different universe. I mean, part of the problem of understanding how other voters, what they're thinking about, what they care about is they're living in a complete alternative reality, completely different narratives. And we don't know how to go down all those rabbit holes and fix it. I mean, it's not just Fox News, it's not just a few websites. It is an entire ecosystem out there, an alternative ecosystem that is growing exponentially. And I mean, the best filter that we could have is not something on Twitter that warns you something might not be true. It's people who want to get accurate information. And I think all of that is broken down. So I wish I could be more optimistic. I think the challenge for the media and for rebuilding trust is getting greater all the time. And I hope that I am the darkest person here. I hope that nobody has more pessimism. I hope that there's more optimism and there are more constructive ideas here. But I'll tell you, I started the morning by getting a call from my daughter in France. And she was saying, I'm getting all of these emails and these texts from my French friends about voter fraud in the state of Wisconsin and what is going on there. And I had to tell her, it's BS, it is misinformation, it is disinformation first of all, it's based on misunderstandings, false reporting, it is being amplified by a number of media outlets that shouldn't be. But when you're sitting here and there are people all around the world that are going, what's true? What's going on? It feels like there is this, that it is a pandemic of BS. And I'll say BS rather than anything else. I'm sorry. That was a longer answer than it was plenty of time. No, it's so important in this issue of trust and the notion that these two alternative universes, one of them based on evidence-based facts and the other not so much is really, really important. City, I'm gonna turn to you, but I also just wanna remind anybody that's watching, if you're part of our Zoom to click on the Q and A and add your questions, which we're gonna be getting to in a little bit, please add your name and your affiliation if you're comfortable doing so. Septi, let's again turn to you and I'm sure you have other in your observations about these issues of trusts and these clashing sort of communities of reality. Well, thanks for having me. That's a heck of a way to hand off the baton, Charlie. Unfortunately, I'm gonna build off of Charlie and Jo-Ann's observations. I have two specific observations, but I look at this through the lens of a former local elected official and mayor, as someone who's worked the White House, Clinton administration, Senate, US Senate. If we do not have a healthy ecosystem of information, we can't govern. We can't actually make decisions on behalf of the constituents that those elected officials represent. And so we are in real danger, not just in as far as public safety and people being misled around ballots. We're really in danger of being able to function as a governing democracy at every level, at every level. So two observations, I wanna start with a positive one, which was the Hunter Biden story. As we recall, the New York Post ran with a story around Hunter Biden and the Biden family. And traditionally, a lot of major news outlets would feel obligated to do something on that because a major publication published, they're talking about the vice president and his son. Well, that didn't happen. Major news outlets decided that they were not gonna run with the story. They didn't have the appropriate documentation to report on it, so they didn't do it. I thought that this was a major positive decision. I'm actually hopeful that that trend continues. And so I did wanna point that out. The second one piece I wanted to point out, which goes back to the platforms, is content moderation. There's a fantastic article by a woman named Emily Dreyfus who works at the Shorenstein Center with the Technology and Social Change Project who published an opinion piece in the New York Times today. And I'd encourage you all to take a read. She goes through a misinformation campaign against the Biden family going back a year, very deliberate on various platforms, including Twitter. I think it's posted in the chat now. She did an excellent job in sort of segmenting how that information was spread. I agree with Joanne. Yes, Twitter did make an attempt to push back on that and stop the spread. That was a plus. However, I do think the other piece to responsibility for all the platforms is to one, uniformly really put strong content moderation in place because it's dangerous if we don't. I mean, both Charlie and Joanne described many different situations where disinformation is put out. That means people's lives. There have been reports, for example, disinformation targeting the black community, misleading information about medical information in black community. So this is life and death, also public safety. The second piece is I think they have a responsibility to be transparent about how they are doing content moderation. Why do I think this is important and we think this is important? If people don't understand how they're doing it, you could then actually promote additional conspiracy theories about why they're doing it, how they're doing it. Are they biased? Are they running an anti-Trump campaign? So I think that that is the second piece that I think will be vitally important moving forward. Thank you, Citi. And that is a perfect segue into our conversation with Kate because Kate is one of the nation's top experts on the internet platforms and content moderation. How do you think the platforms performed during this election, during this momentous time now? Yeah, so I will, to counter Charlie's doom and gloom, I will take the slightly sunnier position that I was impressed as someone who has followed these companies for the last six years inside and out who is very, very familiar with not only the rules that they use to moderate content, but how that policy changes from internal and external pressure and really the processes that are put in place to make sure that those rules are enforced. So let's just kind of start out with the fact that like Donald Trump for all intents and purposes basically broadcast his plans like some type of like villain in a movie declaring ahead of time everything he was going to be doing like to kind of to screw with the election results kind of following it. And because of that, you had Twitter and Facebook in particular and we'll get to what happened with Google and YouTube in a second, but you had Twitter and Facebook in particular do some pretty robust, very tailored, very rapid response moderation as soon as the president tweeted certain types of things which were foretold by the president himself before the election had even begun. So they actually did like a pretty great job and they did this in a way that was really interesting. It was not just about removing harmful material. They also did certain things like put up labels in search areas or high trafficked areas that reminded voters in the same way the media was doing that like results would not be coming in soon that like people were, you know that ballots were still being counted that like that they shouldn't be trusting everything that they were seeing. And so in addition to that, you're seeing a development in and said he kind of said we need really robust content moderation and that's been a struggle for years that it's probably the strongest with these three companies of anyone in the world. And like the difference that happened here is you're really seeing finally at long last and I say finally because it really means people have been calling for this for the last 15 years a development of shades of gray and how people are doing content moderation. It is not just removal and it is not just keeping things up. It is adding content to problematic content so that people can find the right answer we can have a healthy in like a healthy democracy in the sense that people can go and search out and have the tools to know and to question what it is that they're reading. And then they're also doing something that is not just taking things down not just removing something from the conversation because sometimes bad content has to be seen in order to have a healthy conversation about it but they're putting interstitials into place interstitials being like fuzzed out content that basically allow you to selectively decide that you're going to click through and read something but maybe with like the knowledge that it contains violent material that it contains false news that it contains something like the Kate speech. This is, these are all really great developments and we saw them all on display on election day and the day after. That is not as true with what YouTube decided to do. So YouTube really just had like a small link at the bottom of all of the election results saying like the election results are not final click here for more info and like had people click on that button and then go out that took them to an outside of YouTube search that was on Google and another like a completely different window. It's a very different thing to give people a like a frankly, slightly but needed paternalistic understanding of why content is not exactly true what they should be questioning specifically and to do that work for people in the same way that journalism has done it for centuries and give people just another type of fire hose of information like you do what like YouTube did, which was basically like here is like, here's a Google search on election 2020 that's not going to necessarily help anyone decide whether or not that the president's tweets or the president or any of the president's aides on TV are saying the right thing. So all of this being said, just making sure I got everything that I thought I thought that basically this was a really strong showing from the platforms. Of course there's going to be disinformation that is flowing. I think that what's going to happen is now we've had this very high profile event that they prepared for pretty incredibly that we're not going to have like then like this is not sustainable for the platforms in the long term, this type of like quality of information that probably have people following specific accounts that are high profile and likely to tweet certain things and they just can't do this at scale. But I think that like it gives us a sense of like the best possible thoughtful scenario in a small test setting of what it is that the platforms are capable of and what works and what doesn't so that we can start developing best practices going forward. And I just so in this very narrow sense I think that what happened on Tuesday and Wednesday was pretty good for platform policies. Kate, I want to just pull on that thread of the last part you were saying about what this says about how content moderation will work going forward. Now granted, we're still in this very difficult situation and there's already some questions coming in about misinformation, disinformation on the platforms right now, granted.  You say it's going to be hard to maintain this level of vigilance at scale, but is it, do you think we will see, do you think we will see Twitter, maybe YouTube will get with the program Facebook keeping up this level of scrutiny or do you see it slipping back? What are you optimistic or pessimistic about? There we go. Well, I think in that it's going to really depend. The US election was kind of the event that like the world, unfortunately for the world, the whole world was waiting for. I feel bad for everyone else who got dragged through our election. But there's a, I think that this is, so they put a lot of effort into this and this was kind of a very, very big moment. But I would love it if this level of scrutiny happened wherever there were national elections all over the world and that this was kind of a best practices and this level of effort went into that type of thing as a start, right? As a very, very base start. Unfortunately, like many events are not, are much more organic than like the election where you can plan an advance for what's going to happen or you can put a entire set of plays into place of like what this happens, what there and we're gonna take this down or keep this up. I just think that like at the very least if we keep this type of scrutiny up for elections that are taking place wherever they might be, that would be a wonderful start. And then going forward from there, start really understanding what it is that people want from platforms, be it like this type of kind of heavy-handed guidance on fake news and everything else which I think that they do, people do and how to dial that in for more organic events that appear in terms of how Facebook or Twitter or YouTube decides to deploy mechanisms for content moderation and reaction to them. Thank you, Kate. Could I ask a question here because I have really mixed feelings about this and Setti's point about the handling of the Hunter Biden story is really fascinating because that really was a big moment. I'm glad you did that. But I guess, and I have very mixed feelings about this. So I wanted to get a sense from Kate about this robust response. Twitter decided it was just gonna block the New York Post. It was just gonna block a whole story. And that raised the whole question of censorship. So a lot of the debate that focused afterwards was not just on is Hunter Biden a bad guy or not? It's like, okay, are the platforms now being big brother? And so there was a lot of blowback to that. So was that the right decision? I have mixed feelings on that. In my opinion, it's like an expert. I know, I don't think it was the right, I don't think it was the right move. I mean, I don't think so. They did reverse the decision. Sorry, just for the people. I was just gonna say that. But to set his point and to your point, Charlie, like I think that this is the entire problem with something that like, I think that we're, and I say this over and over again, but like we are in a norm setting period of trying to understand what it is that we want from these platforms and what we want them to be, how we even, I mean, I've been doing this for six years and I've probably heard four dozen analogies of platforms or public utilities, platforms or monopolies, platforms or like media companies, platforms are like malls, platforms are, so it's just like, there are all of these analogies. We don't understand what they are yet. And so what's so great about something going right is that's a very strong signal like in this election.  Like maybe we could recreate that and that gives the platforms and ourselves kind of like, well, this is what they're capable of and this is what we can expect from that and we can hold them to this. I thought the New York Post was a terrible decision because I think that it did this thing of stepping into the shoes of like journalists and journalism and fact-checking the journalists and they could have, again, put interstitials on it, done any type of other thing, but like removing the post or blocking the post from spreading seemed incredibly problematic to me for a lot of reasons. Well, because I do, I'm sorry to keep talking here, but I also think to going to Joanne's point earlier, the decision by other major traditional media not to follow it, not to do the Hillary's email thing, the fact that everybody else looked at that and go, we're not going to be an echo chamber, that was I think even more important than what happened on Twitter. So you had the Twitter controversy, but the fact that The Times, The Post, other newspapers did not follow up the Wall Street Journal basically debunked it. But I mean, it really is, I think that's going to be one of the case studies and big push for disinformation that didn't work as a model. So it's not just the platforms, but it's also the media decided to be responsible. I thought it was the media's job there to do that, by the way, not the platform. Right, that's my question. Right, okay. And at the same time, there's concern, for example, Mother Jones pointed out, they reported that their stories, that their reporting was being lowered in search in response to they reported pressure from conservatives who felt that they were being censored. So this whole question about content moderation, censorship, pre-expression was not adequately addressed in this election and certainly does need to be addressed if we're going to have informed communities. So just moving forward, and Joanne, let's start with you. What does the news media, what do journalists after they all take a well-deserved vacation to this election, what might they do to help rebuild trust in accurate information? Because we all know one of the best ways to battle misinformation and disinformation is to deliver accurate, trusted news and information. Yeah, I do think actually, Jennifer, there is as we were just discussing, I think there is a positive lesson to be learned from this election, which is for the mainstream media to stop giving oxygen to the nonsense, to stop allowing Trump and in some senses Fox News to set the news agenda and spend all of their time battling against misinformation coming from Trump or that they see coming from Fox News or others in that world. And we've seen that it works. We saw, with the Hunter Biden story, I thought that was a model of how journalists can handle this, which is to say they didn't jump on the story, but they reported was sort of like, why are you seeing this? Why are you hearing this? Here's the backstory. And there's, by the way, there is, why you're hearing it, this is tracks back to Russian misinformation, et cetera. And then the other thing is that in terms of the platforms, we've seen, I think that the Twitter experiment with the election, I think has gone quite well. And it shows not only what you can do, but also that you are able to do it. We've heard from the platforms over the years that there's too much of a flood. We can't do this. It's impossible. And we're seeing that this is in the realm of the possible. So I do think, the news media, though, the first most important thing is don't give oxygen to the nonsense. Stick to actually understanding, setting the news agenda, which is what their role has been is to say, what is going on in the world and not kind of getting batted back and forth. And I think that would help considerably. I also do think, though, we do have to be very mindful, there's a little bit of a, mostly a generational war within a lot of newsrooms now between sort of the old school people who came up with, we wanna be unbiased. We want to make sure that we, what has been now attacked as both sidearism. And I think very often fair journalism is being attacked as both sidearism. In other words, when you're going after just the facts, very often you have in particularly among younger journalists saying, but wait a second, this is lies. This is blasphemy. This is horrible. And we have to call it out for what it is. And I do think that that can lead us astray. So I do think we have to be very careful about how we position stories. The amount of oxygen we give stories, what we choose to focus on. And in old fashioned print, which amazingly still has a lot of currency out there, we got to be very careful about where we place stories and how we prioritize stories to signal what our news judgment is. And I guess it all comes down to, by the way, just news judgment, good old fashioned news judgment as opposed to allowing others to set the news agenda for you. And Charlie, it's one of the founders of the bulwark in your commitment to delivering accurate reporting that's not driven by a partisan agenda. What roadmap do you give to journalists to help journalists move forward? Well, first of all, we are very much an opinion journal. We'd have a very point of view. We try not to be tribalistic about it. But the piece of advice that I always give to people, which is not original, it is not new, it's old as journalism is, please people get it right. There is nothing that does more to a road truth than sloppy journalism and mistakes because those mistakes are instantly weaponized. Particularly when you have this environment we live through where you have, out of the White House referring to journalists as enemies of the people and it's all fake news. Any mistake, any error, which is human, is multiplied, it's exponentially more damaging. So this is again, you would think that this is obvious, but I think in the fact that we have these micro news cycles now, I don't even know if we have news cycles anymore, Joanne, I mean, it's like every five minutes it's the beast of the internet and you have all of these people who are competing for the eyeballs and the clicks. But there's so much bad stuff out there that makes it very, very easy to discredit journalism. So I wish there was some way that we could do a better job in saying, look, here are actual fact-based credible media outlets, pay attention to them. But the part of the problem is, is that everything gets flattened out. Everything just sort of shows up on your screen. And I really want Kate to be right about this and I want me to be wrong about this. I really, really do. And I think that she probably is. I guess my concern is that some of the things that they've done do strike me as the finger in the dam and the dam is about to break here. But I think that if I had one advice to more traditional media, it's to really market that you are a different kind of media. Be as transparent as possible. Why we do what we do, what our standards are, what fact-checking looks like, and saying that if you're trying to figure out, who do you listen to, who do you believe? Well, this is what we do and this is why we think you should believe us. But please, people get it right. Love that, Charlie. Get it right. This is Bob Dylan said, if it's not right, it's wrong. It's wrong. So, and just wanted to note, Charlie, that you and Joanne and other members of the Knight Commission on Trust, Media, and Democracy insisted in your recommendations that radical transparency, radical transparency and accuracy are key. Setti, looking ahead, what do you think the roadmap needs to be? Well, I'm gonna talk broadly about a couple of items and then I'm gonna reference some work at the Shorenstein Center that we're doing around this very question, the health of the information ecosystem. Let me start with some of the work we're doing that we think are important. This was touched upon by all of us in regard to the New York Post Story and the Hunter Biden non-coverage, which was very, very good. A lot of times, newsrooms and journalists are faced with some of these decisions that are not as high profile that actually aren't as clear once you dig down a little bit. So, one piece of this is really having the leadership in newsrooms understand how media manipulation works. There are a lot of actors out there that try to use the media to amplify their message. So, one of the things that we're really pleased about and I know this was just announced, so we're happy to get support from Knight is to convene some of those leaders in newsrooms to really engage them around how media manipulation works, how to prevent it in their organizations. So, we're pleased that the Technology and Social Change Project led by Joe Deneman is working on that. Second, if you're not in our convening like that, we have a resource online. The Technology and Social Change Team has put together a media manipulation casebook that they're building over time so that you can actually see the various cases understand how media manipulated, media was manipulated by various actors. And I think that'll be in the chat so you can take a look at that. On the positive side, and moving away from the defense, but the offense side, a lot of time journalists, particularly in mid-sized newsrooms, not the large New York Times, Washington Post, really don't have the resources to analyze and report on really complex research around science, health, medicine. So one of the things that we have a resource that's available is journalist resource at the Shorenstein Center. We're in contact with thousands of public policy makers and newsrooms to provide that. We've done a lot of work around COVID-19 and health. We've done a lot of work around racial issues in the country and digging in, understanding anti-racism and systemic racism. And so that's another piece that I think is important. Two other broader mentions I wanna make. One is we really have to work on this collapse of local news. This is a very, very, very serious problem in our country. As we all know, I don't have to go through all the data and numbers. It's just, it's been a collapse over the last decade and COVID-19 is accelerating that. And the results are through studies, we become more partisan as a country because we don't have local news. People are turning into national news at the local level because their local news is going away. We're now seeing that corruption is being reported on at the local level, transparency and government, decisions that are being made and it goes on. But I do think that working on this question of local news and how people get it, not just focused on the newspapers, but good local news and how people get it. And then lastly, there's a real responsibility for that I think that are on public policy makers and politicians that we haven't talked about. There's an opportunity at the local level, not necessarily at the national level, but the local level for local elected leaders to sort of reinvent how they communicate in their communities. Right now, there's sort of a one-way communication primarily people putting out what's happening in the town, what's happening in the city. I think we need to get to a place with local elected officials where they have a better understanding about misinformation, disinformation, how to get ahead of stories that may not be true in their own community that could jeopardize various projects, decisions that the communities have to make, and maybe even jeopardize public safety. So I think that communities need to sort of reinvent how they think about communications at the local level and sort of understand the space that we're in moving forward. Thanks, Setti. There's a number of questions about local journalism and the importance of filling in those critical news deserts, but we're going to questions now. You can still enter your questions in the Q&A. Please list your name if you feel comfortable doing so. I'm gonna pose the first question here from Mark Newton who is a journalism and media teacher. Thank you, Mark. I'm gonna direct this one to Joanne. We've been talking about this before I ask the question. I'll say we've been mostly talking about the responsibility of the news media. Mark asks about the accountability of the audience. What level of media literacy should we expect from citizens? Should schools teach media literacy like other literacies that we have deemed essential to function in a society, a democratic republic? What role does journalism, media, big tech have in promoting media literacy and helping teach its audience, the public? Yeah, first of all, thank you, Mark, for that question. This is so important and this is something warms my heart and that of Jennifer and Charlie for sure because this was one of our major recommendations from the Knight Commission was for media literacy and we had a lot of discussions about this and I think there was a real consensus that we need to start literacy in the schools and we need to start it at a very young age. I mean, the students are on the internet, they're getting a lot of information starting from the time they can read. So yeah, I think there's a huge responsibility there. I would love to see some sort of curriculum programming and also funding for this, this is something that I do think that particularly the platforms could and should be a part of at least in terms of the funding to allow us to work with people from a very young age. That said, I do wanna note that if you've taken any of these tests that occasionally the New York Times puts out there, there's can you tell which real and what's fake? Even experts have a hard time. It's the, you know, there are always, the folks who are putting out false and misleading information are continually a step ahead and I think that that's something that we have to work very hard on and it's in addition to the news literacy, I do think there's also a role that we have to understand for, you know, who is the source of the information and again, I think that the platforms can help us play a role in that in flagging.  You know, it would be like USA.today or USA Todays and they weren't getting flagged and they were putting out all kinds of garbage and so, you know, I think there's a role to play for education and a role to play for the platforms. By the way, if I could just add on SETI's point earlier about local news, which is so important. So at GANET, where I was Chief Content Officer, we had 110 local newspapers and I've got to tell you, we had USA Today and local newspapers and in those local newspapers, in addition to everything SETI mentioned, they also had a tremendous degree of trust and that would actually do a huge, huge help to media as a whole. People trusted their local newspapers in a way that they don't trust the national news of any sort. And I just put my pitch in, in addition to the literacy learning civics education, because I think part of, even though it runs tangential as a media discussion, there's just a lot of people that don't even understand what the role of these various offices they're talking about. They don't know what the Supreme Court actually does. They don't understand, you know, what a governor does versus a senator. So I think that also in our politics, in our information ecosystem, we need to really make sure people have a grasp of that. Absolutely, thank you SETI and thank you, Joanne. This is a question from Mark Lend and I'm gonna post this to Charlie, who leads an opinion news site. So how might we lessen the confusion among readers, users, viewers about the difference between opinion and reporting? I mean, we all know that the best opinion pieces are actually arguments or actually driven by great reporting. And then with 24 hours to fill is Mark Lend notes, many of the networks offer talking heads to interpret the news rather than report the news. And how is that contributing to the polarization and to confusion about what's an opinion and what's not, what's reporting? No, that is a real problem and it used to be a very, very strict line and I think newspapers still observe that line but on cable to, and by the way, I'm one of those talking heads, so just, you know, full disclosure but on cable television, those lines are completely obliterated and everybody has their basically, rather than going to turning on one of the cable news channels to get information, you're going to your safe space, you're going to find out what your team is talking about and there is no limit whatsoever. I also have mixed feelings about this because I like to have reporters have freedom of speech and I think it's important to let people know where you're coming from but that blurring where you have straight news reporters that are then on Twitter, expressing their, you know, rather aggressive opinions, that is a problem, that is added to all of this. It's made for a very robust debate, it's been very, very entertaining but I think it has broken down that real distinction in the readers and public's mind that these people are just giving me news versus the talking heads that are giving me opinion. Charlie, clarifying, you're a journalist as an MSNBC contributor. Other political strategists are not, and I think you are not a political strategist and I think that's what people mean when they talk about talking heads. Unfortunately, we are out of time with so many questions left and a presidential election hanging in the balance. So I just want to say a big thank you to our panelists. I'm sure we will have more conversations about this going forward. A big thank you to everybody who is watching us either on Zoom or YouTube or Twitter or Facebook. A big thank you to the Knight Foundation and also to my friend, Jennifer. Do you want to close this out, Jennifer? Sure, thank you everyone for joining us and thank you everyone for your patience as the votes get counted. Very special thank you to our guests and this is just the start of a conversation that needs all of you to participate in in the coming months and coming year. And thank you again for joining us and Vivian. It was just wonderful for this special edition, special partnership with you as the new executive director of Aspen Digital and for many, many, many discussions will be taking place in the future. Thank you. Thanks everybody, bye-bye. Bye. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Thanks guys, you were great. Whoever's left, oh, they're all gone. Oh well, that worked. Vivian, I think it worked. I know, I assume we're not live.