Dwi'n fawr i'r 30 yma yma yma o'r gweithio eu cyfnodau hefyd yn 2018, rwy'n meddwl i gyflogau ymdd與fod ymdd i'r Oeddon Bryn Whittle. Felly, rwy'n meddwl i'n fwy o'r gweithio yma i'r cyfnodau hefyd o'r oeddon, a ddod i'r ffiliadau, rwy'n meddwl i'r gweithio'r yma o'r ddwyllteisio'n ddysgu'n eu cyfeirio. Fy modd i'r oeddon yma yma yma mae'r gadael i'r ystafellu rhagorauau eich UK Parliament legislation for which a legislative consent memorandum has now been lodged and which we anticipate will be formally referred to this committee in short order. The bill was introduced in the House of Commons on 26 October 2018. It is one of a series of bills intended to adjust UK legislation for Brexit in addition to the European Union withdrawal act, and it is intended to allow the UK to maintain reciprocal health arrangements with the EU and its member states after Brexit whether or not a withdrawal agreement is reached. The provisions of the bill are not limited to arrangements with the EU, and the UK Government has stated that the bill would also allow the UK to strengthen existing reciprocal healthcare arrangements with countries outwith the EU or to reach new ones. To give evidence on that, I welcome to the committee Paul Gray, director of health and social care and chief executive of NHS Scotland, Shirley Rogers, director of health, workforce leadership and service transformation, Liz Saddler, deputy director of planning and quality division, Ian Davidson, head of constitution and UK relations, and John Patterson, divisional solicitor. Can I start by acknowledging that Paul Gray has let us know that he intends to step down in the coming weeks and allow me to record the committee's thanks to Paul for his leadership over the last five years within the NHS in Scotland, and personally my own thanks for his leadership in health and care over an even longer period. On behalf of the committee, Paul, I wish you well in your future endeavours, however it falls to this committee to interrogate you one last time, at least. I invite you to make an opening statement. I thank you for your kind words. I have certainly felt that it is a great privilege to hold the role and also to appear before parliamentary committees, which I regard as an essential component of public service and being held to account. I am pleased to be here today with colleagues to discuss the legislative consent memorandum for the UK healthcare international arrangements bill, which was lodged in the Parliament and published on Thursday 6 December. On leaving the EU, the reciprocal healthcare arrangements currently in place may no longer apply in their current form, and UK legislation is required to provide for future arrangements. In broad terms, the bill gives powers to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to fund and arrange healthcare outside the UK and to put in place reciprocal healthcare arrangements between the UK and other countries or international organisations such as the EU. Scottish ministers in the UK Government agree that the bill impacts on the devolved function of health and as a result it requires the consent of the Scottish Parliament. UK Government officials have indicated that the bill will be amended to recognise the responsibility of the devolved Administrations. The current proposal is to introduce a requirement to consult the devolved Administrations and enter into a memorandum of understanding with them before regulations can be introduced to impact on devolved matters. In the event of a deal between the EU and the UK, the EU withdrawal bill will allow the current reciprocal health arrangements to continue during the implementation period. However, in the event of no deal, this legislation would be needed quickly to put new arrangements in place. The committee is no doubt aware that, in June this year, the UK Government proceeded to pass the EU withdrawal bill, despite the refusal of the Scottish Parliament, to give its legislative consent to relevant provisions of the bill, and UK Government ministers expressed the view that Brexit is not normal and felt within the exceptions applying to the Sewell Convention. Since that bill, the Scottish Government has taken the view that it should not seek formal legislative consent from the Parliament for Brexit bills, but the Scottish Government has, however, made clear that it will co-operate in developing bills and in supporting this Parliament's scrutiny. It has lodged LCMs on the trade bill, the agriculture bill, the fisheries bill and now this healthcare bill. Scottish ministers have also said that formal legislative consent could be sought for Brexit legislation in exceptional circumstances. The Scottish Government believes that there are exceptional circumstances for this bill, given the need to provide reassurance to Scots who access state healthcare in the European economic area under the existing reciprocal schemes, and the Government will therefore lodge an LCM for this bill. On reciprocal healthcare more generally, my letter of 4 December to the committee indicated that six NHS boards were not participating in the UK Government's EHIC incentive scheme. That number included NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. We have since received further returns than November statistics after I wrote to the committee and I am pleased to report that Greater Glasgow and Clyde now has recorded EHIC activity and has recovered £120,000. I am meeting the health board chief executives this evening and I propose to take up with the remaining five boards the question of why they do not participate in this scheme. Finally, convener, we have sought to anticipate in those we have brought the range of questions that the committee might ask, but clearly the subject is broad and could attract questions from members on many aspects. If there is any information that I do not have today, I will give an undertaking to the committee to provide it at the earliest possible moment after this session has concluded. Thank you very much, convener. Paul, that is much appreciated. Can I start off, and you rightly say that it is a very broad subject, and I think that the committee is very keen to understand the scope of the current arrangements and how they operate? Can you explain what currently happens if a visitor from outwith the European economic area wishes to register with a GP? My understanding is that we encourage GPs to establish persons country of origin, but we do not wish to deprive them of primary healthcare services, so we have not so mandated, but Liz could perhaps say a little more. There were recent guidelines on GP registration generally, which includes a section on overseas visitors, which encourages but does not require GPs to establish the country of origin. As Paul says, that is primarily to ensure that people can access primary healthcare if they require it. I am afraid that I do not have any more details on that, so that is something that we will need to write to you about. The regulations that do make clear that people from outwith the EEA are required to pay for healthcare and that those we expect GPs to be able to establish where people from country of origin are. I am interested in that reply, and I wonder if you can tell us if Scotland in this respect differs from other parts of the United Kingdom in respect of not requiring evidence of either residency or nationality for registration with a GP. I am afraid that I do not know that answer. Given the nature of the bill that is before us and the implications that it may have for Scottish NHS finances, it would be very important to understand the implications of what you have described. If a person with no entitlement to free treatment is able to register with an NHS general practice without evidence of being entitled to free treatment, they could then very easily go through the entire healthcare system without being recognised as ineligible for NHS treatment. What could cover people from within the EEA who are entitled to free healthcare under the reciprocal healthcare arrangements? Non-EEA people are not eligible for free healthcare, so this bill would not impact on those individuals. Are there separate arrangements set out in the regulations relating to the payment of healthcare for people from non-EEA countries? Yes, I understand that point. The point is that the bill will presumably apply to citizens of EEA countries. Are the same rules that apply to non-EEA visitors in the event of leaving the European Union without an agreed arrangement? Is that correct? Is that broadly the principle of the bill? The Government's policy is that the reciprocal healthcare arrangements for EEA people should continue in force. Therefore, they would continue to in the event of an agreement, which will continue under the existing arrangements until the end of the implementation period, in the event of no deal, there would be a need to put in additional provisions straight away to enable that to continue. That would only apply if there was no agreement to continue reciprocal healthcare. I have understood your question correctly. The point is that, because we do not oblige general practitioners absolutely to determine the country of origin of someone seeking treatment from them, it is possible that someone who is not within the EEA could still get treatment from a general practitioner without so declaring. That is the point that we should write to the committee about quickly, just to make that distinction that you have made and to be clear whether we are doing something about that distinction and furthermore to be clear about whether this is a different system from those elsewhere in the UK. Have I understood the question? That would indeed be helpful. The legislative consent memorandum appears to say that the bill is intended to go beyond the EEA and to allow for reciprocal health arrangements with other countries—third countries, we have already some with Australia and New Zealand, for example—so it is pertinent to know what the scope of the current arrangements may be. Particularly in addition to the point that you have come back to me with, the question of whether there is no check at the point of registration with primary care on origin and nationality, does that mean that checks have to be made by hospitals when a GP refers a patient or is it the case that there are essentially no checks throughout the system? Yes. There are certainly checks that are formed if acute services are required, but it would be good for us to be completely clear about that stream with the committee so that we have put that on the record for you. I am interested in any consultation that has occurred between the Scottish Government and the UK Government as far as developing the scheme. Was the Scottish Government consulted as part of the introduction of the scheme? Do you mean that the bill is new or that it is the e-hick? The e-hick, in general. Liz, what has been discussed with the Government on e-hick? The current arrangements have been in place for some time. In anticipation of Brexit, we had discussions with the UK Government earlier in the summer at a very high level about what the future might look like, but since then, there has been very little interaction, despite regular prompting from us to ask for further information from the UK Government. We were informed at official level on 22 October that there would be a bill, but it was not until—we were informed on Friday, 19 October, that there was going to be legislation and we were given a copy of it, but it wasn't until Monday 22 October that we were informed that the bill was imminent. The Cabinet Secretary had a conversation with the Permanent Under Secretary of Health on Wednesday, 24 October, when he confirmed that the bill would be published and that there was a requirement to consult the Scottish Parliament. Since then, we have had some limited conversations with officials in the Department for Health about strengthening the bill to recognise the devolved implications, particularly around consultation or, ideally, seeking the consent of the Scottish Parliament to amendments to any legislation passed by the Scottish Parliament. There hasn't really been much connection with the health secretary in Scotland in order to develop the process, but now there is a commitment to engaging with the Scottish Government. The current arrangements have been operating effectively for a number of years, and there has been a lot of consultation and engagement with colleagues around that. What we haven't been involved in, to any great extent, was the development of this piece of legislation. We would expect to be very closely involved in any implementation around putting in place new reciprocal arrangements, because that does impact on the NHS in Scotland. Can you briefly describe the reciprocal arrangements that currently exist with the UK Government under the current arrangements? The reciprocal arrangements are provided for EU member state level, so the UK Government administers the arrangements on behalf of the UK. There are three main schemes, S1, which is around the provision of healthcare for UK pensioners who have chosen to live in another EEA country or Switzerland, and that covers the cost of their healthcare. A lump sum of €4,000 per year is paid by the UK Government for that provision. S2 is the provision of planned treatments where an individual can request through their health board to go overseas for elsewhere in the EEA to receive a procedure that is provided the same as they would get at home, and that we understand from the EU returns, the returns that go to DWP around 10 people from Scotland a year use that scheme. Then there is the EHIC, which is obviously the part of the agreement that most people know about, and that enables individuals to receive medical treatment if they become ill or have an accident in the EEA in the equivalent of the state healthcare system within that country. Some EEA countries do not have as comprehensive a healthcare system as within the UK. In those circumstances, people may have to pay something towards the cost of their treatment, which they can claim back from the DWP when they come home. It is not that EHIC should not be seen as a substitute for healthcare insurance because it only covers the cost of the treatment. It does not cover any additional costs such as the need to repatriate somebody home, additional costs for family and friends, family to be with the person or for rehabilitation periods. I also add to what the convener said and offer my congratulations to Paul Gray on his imminent retirement to having worked with Paul for a number of years in the Scottish Government. It was clear to me that Paul contributed in all sorts of areas of government policy on a regular basis and was often the person that ministers went to, especially during SCOR, and other crises to get something fixed. I think that you have a great deal to be proud of, Mr Gray, and what you have done for the public service in Scotland. Just to help you out with my last pre-retirement gift, my question will actually go to Mr Davidson if it can. A lot of people say that Brexit has not really impacted so far, and yet we look at the range of senior highly-paid officials here today and the work that you have had to do in terms of preparation for this. The fact that, as Emma Harper highlighted, we are doing things at breakneck speed, we are not having the proper consultation carried out, we are having to agree things about having seen them first of all. Obviously, Brexit is having an impact and it is mainly because of the possibility of a no-deal scenario. Can I ask whether all that work going on in this directorate would have changed, had it been the case that the amendment that would have been discussed today at Westminster, which has ruled out no-deal, were you aware of that? Would it have been the case that that kind of parliamentary guarantee that no-deal was not going to happen would have stopped this work, or would you have had to continue doing it as a contingency in any event? To be honest, I think that that is a very difficult question to answer. My particular expertise in relation to those matters is about the relationships between the Governments on legislative co-operation and, obviously, together with Shelley and many others across the Scottish Government, some involvement in the wider preparations. The Government has at all the stages taken the necessary steps that it is believed to be appropriate to prepare for all circumstances before us. I do not think that anything in relation to that has changed, but as uncertainty grows and we get closer to the potential of the 29th of March, those preparations need to step up. I do not think that I am precisely answering your question, but I am not sure that it is really possible to do so, other than to give that general indication that all the work that we need to do proportionately at different stages that we are doing. I would hope that if there is a prospect, and who knows what is happening in that complete shambles, but if there was a prospect that something was going to rule out the need for this work, that the Scottish Government doing the horizon planning that it should be doing would take that into account in the system work that is going to be unnecessary. A more specific question, and it may be for somebody else on the panel, is, and I could be getting this wrong. If it is the case that the Secretary of State for Health will have the power to increase the fees, so say three years hence, we want to increase the charges that are made to other EU countries to keep these reciprocal arrangements. The limit on that just now, I assume, would be if you did it within the EU that other countries would get quite annoyed about that and maybe take action against it, I do not know. However, that limit would no longer apply in this circumstance. My concern is that, would it be possible for a future UK Secretary of State to increase the charges that are made because of budget pressures or whatever else, and if that is the case, what possible detrimental impact might that have on the Scottish NHS, if you can follow? As I said in my opening statement, the UK Government officials have indicated that the bill will be amended to recognise the responsibility of the devolved administrations. In the particular point that I would draw the committee's attention to is the requirement to consult devolved administrations and enter into a memorandum of understanding before regulations can be introduced that impact on devolved matters. The distance that I can go based on what we have and bearing in mind these are proposals is to say that the current proposal is that there is a requirement to consult the devolved administrations before regulations can be introduced. To that extent, we would have influence over the decisions that were made. Of course, reciprocal arrangements work both ways. That is to say that if we were to increase substantially charges levied on other administrations, whether within or beyond the EU, then clearly that would work in the opposite direction. We do benefit quite substantially from the current arrangements in place, so under the S1 scheme that Liz Saddler mentioned, for example, around £15,000 state pensioners from Scotland benefit from this scheme cost of £48 million. If something was to happen to increase these costs, that would not be a positive step. Just one last minor thing. I just noticed the list that we were given of non-EU countries with which the UK has a bilateral agreement. It may just be an odd sample, but it seems quite idiosyncratic. Australia, Falkland, Ireland and New Zealand, perhaps you can understand, but, because of all in Serbia, are there particular reasons why? I could not comment on why the UK Government had particular relations in particular places. No, I do not think that I would go any further than that. In terms of the payment for treatment of Scots in those countries with which we do have reciprocal arrangements, who pays that and how is it paid? In terms of the reciprocal arrangements, does the UK Government pay that? It does not recover it from the NHS in Scotland. That is helpful to understand. Alex Cole-Hungton Can I echo colleagues' comments about Paul Gray's service? Paul has always been very generous of his time and, indeed, his patience, particularly with lowly backbench opposition MSPs like myself, so good luck, Paul, on whatever is next. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions about recovery and the mechanisms for recovery of e-hick moneys. First, how was money recovered prior to 1415? That is under the e-hick scheme. Prior to 2014, there was just an expectation by the department for work and pensions that health boards and trusts in England would inform them of people who had received treatment under the e-hick scheme. The DWP then claimed that money back from the person's country of origin. There was very poor take-up across the whole of the UK because it was seen as a bureaucratic process with no benefit to the healthcare provider because they were not getting any of the money back. The scheme that was introduced in 2014 was an attempt to encourage people to report that they had treated people under the e-hick scheme. 25 per cent was seen by the UK Government as a sufficiently large amount of money to encourage the people to do that, but since then, the number of people reporting has increased significantly. As Paul said, there are still five NHS boards who are not reporting activity. I think that you have in part answered my next question, which was about 25 per cent from the DWP. Was that a cash incentive to encourage health boards to more readily record their e-hick activity? Obviously, it is still not perfect. Five territorial health boards are not reporting activity. Some who regularly have delays and the rest of it. Is there any way that in the future, particularly in respect of the new arrangements, that technology could make life easier in this regard? It just feels a bit clunky and unnecessarily bureaucratic? My understanding is that it is a relatively straightforward system to use. There is a secure portal that the boards input the information on to. Undoubtedly, improving technology would help, but we do not know why people are not reporting. Some of the boards are smaller, so they may not have very much business. Even at 25 per cent recovery, it is considered that it is too bureaucratic and costs more than they get back through the 25 per cent. As Paul said, he is meeting the chief executives this evening and is going to speak to the five relevant ones. Can you give us an idea of who those five are? I am sorry to put you on the spot like that. Do not worry. Listen, that is not hugely important. My final question is how much of this do you think is about just culture on the ground, that people are not readily asking where the patients that present before them are from, or that they are not thinking to make that connection to say, actually, that we need to recoup money easier? The five boards are, Dumfreton, Galloway, Fife, Forth Valley, Lanarkshire and the Western Isles. I think that, within acute care, there is a requirement for people to establish where non-UK residents are coming from. I do not know why those five boards are not, whether it is a cultural matter or an administrative matter. Just to answer Mr Cole-Hamilton's question in a slightly different way, the culture of the NHS in Scotland is to provide care to people who need it. I will almost ask questions later. I am not ashamed of that. I think that we should recover money where we legitimately can, and we should observe the regulations and provisions that are in place. What I am planning to do this evening is to make sure that we are doing all that we can, because the NHS in Scotland should not do without money that it legitimately has access to. As I say, I think that our best foot forward would be to treat the person who presents with a need and seek the recovery afterwards. I fully endorse that, and I think that it is a culture that we should be proud of. I think that my desire to get those five names on the record in terms of the boards that we have who are not collecting was to bottom out whether there was a corollary between that and just the propensity for them to treat non-UK citizens, if they are particularly remote or not necessarily on the beaten path of the tourist trail. I do not really get that from that list, so it does strike me as odd. Anyway, no further questions. I wonder, Paul Gray, if you could tell us why the decision was taken, or when it is, and why the decision was taken, that this would be our responsibility of boards dealing directly with EWP and not something provided by the Scottish NHS in order to have a standard approach across Scotland? It is because it is a UK Government scheme rather than a Scottish Government scheme, but I think that, nevertheless, the questions asked by this committee highlight an anomaly that I intend to pursue. In which direction do you intend to pursue it? I intend to pursue it in the direction of consistency. It is clear that there is money to which health boards could be entitled, and therefore it would be sensible for them to have it. If any of the health boards can advance a case that says that they only treat two such patients a year and therefore the bureaucratic cost of doing it would be higher than the recovery, I will listen to that. However, I think that I would want to be assured that that was actually the case rather than that a source of funds was being overlooked. It is in terms of consistency of application by boards rather than a structural change in the way that the matters are managed, and in terms, presumably, of a consistent approach to the registration or treatment of patients from outwith the UK and outwith the EEA. That is correct. Thank you very much, convener. I wish you well in the future. I reciprocate what everyone else has said. You have always been open door to people who want to ask any questions, and it is basically diplomatic as ever. That is what I will say. Just to go back to the situation with the health boards. Obviously, there were six at the beginning of the recent gallery for Farley, Greater Glasgow and Clyde, which you have mentioned. I have just joined five NHS Lanarkshire and the Western Isles. As NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde is one of the biggest ones, it was a concern that they had not joined in particular, but you have said that they have just joined and they have got money back of £120,000. The papers of evidence that were given by health boards said that the reason they did not participate was because it was too much bureaucracy. It cost them more money to get staff to look into it, so that was concerning as well. It certainly outwead the income, so I understand what you are saying, Paul, about various health boards in that respect. You mentioned that the scheme has been running for a number of years. I think that it was the end of 2014 that it came in. Has any analysis been done on the cost benefits of belonging to the scheme and not belonging to the scheme? That is one of the things that I intend to pursue with the chief executives today. Actually, in a very simple way, we just ask those who are recovering money to say to their colleagues, well, this is why we do that and this is why it is worthwhile. The fact that NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde have recovered £120,000 for one quarter, if you multiply that up, that is nearly half a million pounds a year. It is not a trivial sum of money. Now, the sums may be smaller for the other boards in question, but I think that it is very important that we establish, as I say, a consistent baseline of activity. My judgment is that the best way to do that will be to get the health boards who are recovering money to explain to their colleagues why that is worth doing. I will certainly be looking by the end of this financial year to have a consistent pattern across all the health boards. If there are to be any exceptions to it, it is to understand it in a way that can be properly described. You would say that, basically, of the five health boards that are just now mentioned, the fact that if it was too much money to put staff in, it is reasonable to expect that they would not join in the scheme, but can you tell me why Greater Glasgow and Clyde health board decided that they would join the scheme all of a sudden? Is it because they have seen the benefits? Yes, it would be because they had seen the benefits of it and recognised that there was an advantage to them in doing so. I think that it is not so long as well since Greater Glasgow and Clyde got a new chair and a new chief executive. I do not think that I know that they have been looking at their governance arrangements and seeking to refresh those and strengthen them. All of that will have contributed to their decision to take this offer up. If I am being frank, being asked by the committee why you are not will have prompted some of them to think about it. Obviously, £120,000 is not a drop in the ocean, but for the size of Greater Glasgow health board, as you say, it could be half a million pounds or whatever it may be. What I want to say was that it mentions in the papers about back money, so I do not know if £120,000 is part of back money, but how far back can health boards claim? As far as I know, they have to claim as cases arise, but my sadler could say a bit more. The scheme is administered by the UK Government and we would need to investigate that further on right to you. It does say in evidence that you can claim back money. I think I wrote it down here. It appears that the claims can be back dated and that NHS Greater Glasgow has been collecting data on HIC since 2014-15. Would it just go as far back as when the scheme came in? Yes, it will only go back as far as the scheme started because there was no mechanism for that to reclaim any money. We could expect to get some information in regard to that. Non-residents have been treated. Do the boards still collect data on that? Do the health boards collect data on EIA? This is non-EIA? Yes, non-residents. Non-EIA people? Non-residents, I think, was what Sandra. All the actions. If they were resident here, they would be entitled to treatment in the ordinary way, but is their data collected from those EIA countries who are not resident here? Yes, my understanding is yes. Could we deduce from the fact that Greater Glasgow has been collecting this data for several years, but not making a claim to the DWP to recover costs? Could we deduce that the other health boards may well be doing the same? Do we have any idea what has been done with that data since 2014-15, if it has not been used as a basis for recovering funds? That is what I want to find out from them, because they should be collecting it. We have all agreed that. I want to know what they are doing with it. Further to Sandra's question, can we be confident that boards know who it is that they are treating who is not either a UK citizen or an ordinary resident in the United Kingdom, whether they are EIA citizens or otherwise? We touched on that in your initial questioning, convener. As the matter of general practitioners and primary care, I would like to write to the committee about that. Given any guarantee that I can be absolutely certain of the millions of people who are treated every year that we are perfectly sure about each single one of them, it would not be helpful to the committee, frankly. I would rather get what we know and give it to you in short order than try to speculate. Okay, thank you very much. Good morning to the panel and just to add to your blushes poll, can I also put on the record my thanks? Particularly, I think, as an opposition politician for the behind-the-scenes work that you have often helped to assist me with, and I think that for politicians across the Parliament that has really been valued, especially for individual constituents that we have been trying to get support on. I wanted to pursue further issues around British-born nationals being resident in different countries but maybe coming back to UK for treatment, and I wondered if there was any collection of that sort of data when people are potentially returning home to the UK but resident in different countries for treatment. We do now. I am just scanning my paperwork here of people who come. Under the S2 scheme, we know that fewer than 10 patients from Scotland choose to travel for treatment in the EEA, so in other words fewer than 10 choose to go out of Scotland for their treatment. But those that come back, we probably do not collect that because they will be Scottish citizens and they will come back from spending six months a year in another country and have treatment here, so no, it is very unlikely that we would collect that. So we do not know a picture around that currently. In terms of—and that leads me on to my next question—in numbers of Scottish pensioners who are living in the EEA currently and other countries, do we have any data around that and how many potential EU or EEA pensioners are living in Scotland currently? So I can tell you that there are 15,000 state pensioners from Scotland who are benefiting from the scheme, that fact we do have. Now, in terms of pensioners from other European economic area countries, do we have these data? No. So the 15,000 Scottish pensioners is extrapolated from the UK figure in terms of how many UK pensioners live in the EEA for which the Department for Health pay €4,000 a year for their healthcare. The amount that the UK—and that costs in total—sorry, I have not got that—but there are significantly more UK pensioners who live in Spain, Ireland, France and Cyprus than EEA pensioners who come to live in the UK. So the UK pay out significantly more than they get back in payment from other countries for their pensioners who live in the UK. Further to Cole-Hamilton's line of question, is there any mechanism around that from people who are resident in other countries then? Or is it the S1 scheme, S2 scheme—sorry, you mentioned—or are people, when they return to the UK, we're not necessarily sure where they're resident in the EU and the numbers receiving treatment? So we can't tell if someone who would ordinarily be treated in Scotland comes back to Scotland, we simply can't tell. Mr Briggs, I think you're asking, but if someone who would ordinarily be resident in Spain, let's say, a Spanish citizen, where to come to Scotland and have treatment, would we know? And I think that's the point I was going to write to the convener about, which is how do we know and on what basis and how many have we counted because I think we should assemble these data for the committee. So we would know through the EEHIC scheme how many people had access to care using an EEHIC card. For an EEA resident who came to live in Scotland as a pensioner, they're entitled to free healthcare, but it's in their interests to make sure that they are registered for that free healthcare so that they—and then the UK Government—claim the cost back from their country of origin. There are very small numbers of people in that category, and we would only have the number for at a UK level, I think. Finally, one issue that I wanted to pursue, which is kind of away from this, was around people when they die living abroad or die on holiday abroad and the repatriation around bodies. Do you think that there's opportunities to improve that? Because I certainly know from my time as MSP that it's one of the areas where I've had a number of constituents who you've had to support in making that happen. Do you think that there's an opportunity to improve that internationally, not just necessarily EU-wide? It's not, as far as I know, covered in the proposed legislation that the committee is considering today. That's why Ms Sadler made the point earlier about the importance of people also having the appropriate levels of insurance, because that is not something that is covered by the EUIC scheme. Now, where Governments—plural, here and elsewhere—agree to have some mutually or receptacle repatriation scheme, that is something that could be agreed, but it's not on the face of the legislation at this time. At the centre, it would be a piece of primary legislation in a new area of law. Effectively, I think that's right. Just a quick supplementary, convener. Anybody that presents for healthcare in Scotland without a community health index number, a chi number, are traceable. Is that correct? People coming from England without a chi number, we'd be able to know where their residence is or the fact that they're not resident in Scotland. That's so, but, again, this comes back to the point about the extent to which GPs would insist on such information before providing treatment. I'm using general practitioners as an example. The same would apply if someone was, you know, suffered an accident in the street and was collected by ambulance and taken to A&E. We wouldn't focus on finding out who they were and where they were from until we had administered the definitive treatment that they needed, particularly if it was very urgent. In my experience as an operating room nurse, it's handy to have a chi number, especially if you're going to cross-match for blood and things and just labelling and labs and just the whole system communicating. People are assigned a temporary chi number if they pitch up in the emergency room. It's just trying to get my head round the traceability aspects of people who show up for emergency treatment. To be clear for the committee, I do regard it as highly desirable that we know where people are from. The more backgrounds you have on an individual, the better the treatment for them is likely to be. There will be certain diseases prevalent in some countries that are not prevalent in others, for example. Again, just knowing all that and depending on the circumstances will lead to a better diagnosis and a better treatment and better care. However, as I think we've already established, our principle is to provide the treatment that's needed. I would support that as well. Keith Brown. It's a very quick thing. It's just that we were given before of 15,000 people from Scotland, I think, being an estimate of or extrapolation of UK figures. I'd really quite be interested to know more about that, whatever information the Government might have, and I'll also ask Spice for it as well. I suppose that my intuition would be that there'd be smaller numbers of people from Scotland, the north of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, living permanently overseas than there would be from the south of England. That's just my intuition, so I'd be interested to know what that 15,000 figure relates to. I think that it's probably also true, or my intuition would be that there's less people from overseas living in those parts of the UK, but I'd be interested to know what that is. My substantive point was on the point that was made by Paul Gray earlier about the culture of the NHS. 70 years of not having a vision of the NHS, which is a cash register by a bed, I think is probably quite an important thing. It would be useful in his pursuit of consistency if the value of that was kept in mind at the same time as looking to properly see reimbursement for services. We don't regard individuals as a source of income, I think, is the way I would put that. Nevertheless, the NHS in Scotland denies the principle of kind to the officer of a duty to recover such funds as may be available to us. My point is that the idea, the culture behind the NHS of free-at-the-point-of-use or treating people who need treatment has a value itself, and that should be borne in mind in my view when you're looking at the straightforward accounting of these things. Further to Emma's question, my understanding is that UK citizens who do not have a kind number, who are not registered with the NHS in Scotland, may not be able to access, if they're working abroad in other parts of Europe in particular, may not be able to access care in England if they're returning to England, but may be able to access care free of charge in Scotland. Is that an issue that has come to the attention of yourself or any of us? It's not an issue that certainly is one that presses on us, convener. We in any case treat patients from England on reciprocal arrangements, particularly across the border between Scotland and England. I'm happy to follow up your question to see if there's any evidence of that. I can see in the abstract how it might happen, but we wouldn't routinely be denying people treatment if we thought we needed it. Absolutely, and again that's not the suggestion, but merely to establish if there are any anomalies that may be impacted upon by this bill or may be carried forward into this bill between the different levels of eligibility in different parts of the UK. David Stewart Thank you, convener. I again add my best wishes to Mr Gray and all the work that you've done over many, many years. I think that I'd echo the positive comments from my colleagues. Can I touch on the final questions on contingency and planning? Someone of colleagues at Miles Briggs already mentioned the 15,000 Scots who live in the EEA outwith the UK. We know that figure taken from the UK figures. If we had a scenario where the reciprocity of health ended and that would be the S1 route, have you done any analysis of what the effect would be for the Scottish Health Service? I seem to remember the previous cabinet secretary talking about the number of extra beds that were required if those 15,000 Scots came back. Obviously, you've mentioned earlier that you don't happen to know if individual Scots who are in Spain come back for a one-off treatment, but you will know if the reciprocity ends and you will know that those 15,000 need healthcare in Scotland. Has there been any detailed planning done on that specific aspect? Given that this bill is before us and given that the Government has indicated that it regards it as exceptional, that is a core part of our contingency planning. However, I do not know if Shirley Rogers wants to say that a little more. Shirley has been leading for us on the consequences of Brexit for health. It might be helpful for the committee to hear some of the breadth of planning that is under way around anticipating the healthcare requirements. I suppose that it links also to Mr Brown's question around what we are planning for and how does that work. At the moment, we are planning for a no-deal scenario on the basis that, if that is as bad as it is, anything that is not that will allow us to recast those planning assumptions. We are planning on the basis of medicine supply, of medical devices and clinical consumable supply, reciprocal healthcare of which this is an element, workforce and all of the impacts around workforce potential supply and our existing EU 27 workforce, mutual recognition of professional qualifications and those are the arrangements under which we are able to use those medical and other professionals who have qualified in EU 27 nations. Research in clinical trials, legislative deficiencies, contingency planning, readiness of NHS boards and social care, bodies for operational impact, interdependences with critical supplies, in particular food and fuel and communications. I use that to illustrate the breadth and depth of the planning that is currently under way for EU through. That is very useful, but I can just press you on the specific. Let's assume a scenario in the current climate. Obviously, it's very difficult to know what the next steps are, certainly after the fiasco we've had in the Commons yesterday. Let's assume that we don't have reciprocal healthcare. 15,000 Scots need healthcare who are living abroad. They are coming back to Scotland. How many more nurses, how many more beds, how much more spend are we going to require in Scotland? We don't have that information at the moment because we don't know the extent to which those 15,000 people are unwell. If those reciprocal arrangements are an issue whereby they've come back because they needed a particular surgical operation from which they have recovered, then the answer may be zero. If, on the other hand, those patients are people with long-term on-go conditions, then we obviously will need to factor those into account. It depends on the nature and severity of the disorder from which those patients suffer. We are working up a range of scenarios, but I don't have a percentage number for you at this stage. However, there is a potential scenario where there is no reciprocal healthcare that your department is planning this detail. We are doing some scenario work to plan for that, yes. Can I just move on? I think that Mr Gray has already mentioned this, but just so I've got this on the record, you'll be aware of the new EU directive on patient rights and cross-border healthcare, which is effectively an enhanced S2 route. It means that, if I required a hip operation in Scotland, I could go to the EEA either in the private sector or in a non-planned way or in the public sector, get that done and charge it. That's the new directive, which has only recently been brought in, although it's 2011 stroke 24 just for the record. You may not have this information in your head, Mr Gray, but do you have any general information on that? Has it been used by Scots going abroad, or has it been used by other EEA members coming to Scotland to get the treatment done here? We do receive an annual return on the use of the directive. On average, around 30 Scottish residents use the directive each year to travel for treatment at a cost of around £50,000 per year across Scotland. The directive allows people to get the treatment covered at the same level as it would have been cost in Scotland. If the cost is higher, they only get the cost of Scottish care, and it doesn't cover any additional care such as travelling and any additional hotel accommodation, etc. The directive is not part of the bill, and we understand that the Department for Health is considering the future of the directive and how it should work, but we don't have any further details on that at the moment. As it's not part of the bill, if there's not any further legislation brought forward on that, we would cease for decades. It wasn't included in the terms of the withdrawal agreement, so it could potentially stop at the end of March. It's not alone in that aspect, if it's certainly. My take, and other members may have different views, is that I'm not surprised at the low take-out, because frankly it's not very well known generally. My final question is a UK Government issue, but Mr Gray may be familiar with it. I read in the press just the other day that for non-EU migrants coming to Scotland, particularly in health service, which we're all interested in, that the NHS levy has doubled to 400 a month. The scenario would be a nurse on over 30,000 a year coming from Ukraine to Scotland would have to pay this NHS levy to pay for the costs of accessing health service in Scotland. Is this something again that's been scenario planned in terms of workforce management? It's slightly beyond our legislation today, but, since I've got Mr Gray captive probably for the last time, it might be useful either today or perhaps in a written answer, because that does affect recruitment. Certainly, the health service unions and professional associations have been very concerned, because there's also a big cost to the employer as well, but that's another issue. No, we will write to the committee about that, because I think it's an important question and we should give you a proper answer to it. I want to thank Shirley Rogers for the list of the amount of work that's being done. We're coming to the nub of the frightened part of Brexit, if it is an odd deal. Dave Stewart mentioned about the 15,000 people in Scotland in their reciprocal healthcare, if they all came back from wherever they are. If there's an odd deal, and it's to say that there's no reciprocal healthcare, you're talking maybe 10 times that amount coming back to England from abroad. How is that going to affect if we've got reciprocal healthcare UK and obviously DWP are working on this bill as well in reciprocal healthcare there? How is that going to affect the healthcare in Scotland when it is reciprocal if they couldn't get the healthcare in England and they happen to come up to Scotland? I know it's a scenario, but it's quite frightening when you think if there is no reciprocal healthcare, we could be looking at the use of our tsunami, but of people coming back. We'd first of all have to assume that they all did come back, and given that some may have made their lives elsewhere for many years, they may choose to take out insurance arrangements. As Mr Rogers has said, there are various detailed scenario plans that we are doing, but the likelihood of 15,000 people all returning on mass to Scotland is probably quite low. What I think may be more likely is that people would be less likely to choose to live abroad in future if they thought that their arrangements were less favourable, or that they would have to take into account the insurance requirements that that could attract. However, I think that I wouldn't want to miss the point that the bill that's before the committee today is there in preparation for whatever scenarios may emerge, and therefore, if the bill—and I'm not presuming on this Parliament at all—were to be adopted, given consent to, it would resolve some of the issues that you described, Ms White. Thank you very much to Paul Gray and to the officials for your evidence this morning. Thank you also for the offer to come back to us with additional information. Can I say to put one further burden on you that if we, as a committee, are in a position to conclude our consideration of the LCM at our next meeting, we would require that relevant information to be with us by close of play tomorrow? However, I recognise that some of the things that we have asked you to provide are not directly pertinent to consideration of the LCM. If there are matters that you're able to reply to us within that timescale, that would clearly allow us to move ahead with the LCM, and the other matters that we have raised may require a collection of data, among other things, in due course. We'll certainly give you everything that we have by tomorrow night, convener. Excellent. That's much appreciated. Thank you very much. I'll now suspend for a couple of minutes, and when we resume, we will resume in private session. Thank you.


Hi, this is Gautam Gambhi. I want to know the truth about why there was a debate about National Anthem, when people say that it is our way, it is our right whether we should stand for the National Anthem or not. My personal belief is that this country is giving you so much and there should not be any debate about standing for 52 seconds and I'm a complete believer that people should stand for the National Anthem because the least you can do for your country is to respect your National Anthem, whether it is played in the cinema halls, whether wherever it is played, whether it's played in the schools or wherever it is irrespective, wherever the National Anthem is, you should stand for 52 seconds and again I want to know the truth about that. Namaskaram, Gautam.  We must understand this. What is a nation? Nation is not some God-given thing. It is an idea that all of us have agreed to. A nation is instilled in the form of its constitution and the symbolism of nation comes to us in the form of a flag of the Anthem. So the question is if we want to operate as a nation, if we want to live as a nation, if we want to prosper as a nation, if you want to excel as a nation, is it important to have pride and allegiance to the nation? I am not someone who is talking about nationalism. No, I am for humanism, I am for universality of human existence, but right now the largest number of people or the largest segment of population that you can address is a nation. India as a nation is 1.3 billion people, it's a world by itself. If we do not build a sense of strong sense of nationhood, we cannot prosper, we cannot contribute to the world's well-being, we cannot be of any significance. So Anthem is just one aspect of it. Should I stand up or not? Well, if you have no legs, you don't have to stand up, but even if you have no legs, you must show some sense of respect for the Anthem and the flag, because these are the symbols of nationhood. It is through this a nation is integrated. If you cannot sing your Anthem with pride, then where is the question of nationhood? Now, should I particularly stand up in a cinema hall? Why should I stand up in a cinema hall? I've come there for entertainment. Okay, let me ask such people a question. When did you last participate in the Republic Day parade? When did you last go and attend a flag hoisting of Independence Day? When did you go and sing a national anthem somewhere else? Maybe only when in high school, when you were forced to do it you did. Since then, you are only eating off this nation, benefiting from this nation. You don't want to contribute to this nation. Well, you must understand Indian Army is over a million strong and plus we have other wings of the forces like the navy and the air force.  Well, please tell them that we don't care a damn for this nation so that they can also go home and live their lives. Why are they standing there to protect this nation at the cost of their life? If you don't care anything about this nation, it is important that a sense of nationhood is strongly built into the minds and hearts of every youth and every citizen in this country. This is one thing unfortunately we have failed to do post independence. This should have been done immediately after independence because nation exists only in our minds and hearts. This process was not done effectively post independence. When there was an enormous emotion and spirit about the nation, it should have been done. Unfortunately we have not done. A whole lot of people have identified themselves with their religions, their caste, their creed, their sects and their clubs and whatever else. And above all, their own sense of crude individuality. Should we stand up for the nation? 100 percent. So is Anthem a part of standing up for the nation? Yes, 52 seconds. Is there a debate about this? The people who are raising this question are those people where in one hand they have an overfilled popcorn can and a coke in the other and obviously they cannot stand up without spilling something. This must be the argument. Let this argument stop. If we are concerned about these four hundred million people who are not even properly nourished in this country, it is important that we bind this nation with a strong emotion of nationhood. Without this, there will be no nation because nation is not a God-given thing. Nation is an agreement that we have all come to that when we say we are of this nation, we've agreed that there are certain things that we will value, respect and stand up for.


The researchers developed a new material called collared double hydroxide, CoLDH, that has been integrated with zinc oxide framework, ZIF67. This combination was found to be highly effective in enhancing the performance of the oxygen evolution reaction, OER, which is a key step in the production of clean and renewable energy from water. The researchers used computational modeling to study the interactions between the two materials and found that the CoLDH layer was able to increase the strength of the CoO bond in the LDH layer, making it easier to break the HO bond in the OER reaction. As a result, the CoLDH at ZIF67 material showed improved OER activity and long-term stability compared to other materials. This article was authored by Zhenxingli, Xi and Zhang, Iku and Kong, and others.


Why narcissists don't care about you or anything else? If you are watching this video Maybe you feel like the narcissist doesn't care about you or maybe you feel like they don't care about something that you care about They have no concern They don't give serious attention or consideration to things that are important And it just makes you wonder why You may even look at yourself and wonder if maybe you're just not worthy of their consideration You may begin to doubt your worth And this is actually what the narcissist wants you to do They want you to doubt your qualities and abilities They want to make you believe that you don't deserve anything better Because that's how they control you that's how they keep you in your place Which actually isn't your place at all They've just tricked you into thinking that's all you deserve As though you don't deserve better treatment as though you're not deserving of anything greater But this really has more to do with them than it does to do with you They just want to make you responsible for their behaviors They want to blame you for your own abuse They want you to think that you were to blame for how they treat you That is how they dodge responsibility for their actions That is how they dodge the shame that they would otherwise feel They targeted you because you care They wanted you to take on the role of being the one who is worried and concerned Well, they act without thinking about the consequences Because they think that whatever happens you're going to be the one who has to deal with it In every narcissistic relationship, there is one pattern which can always be observed The narcissist is always fighting for what they can gain from you While they're victim or target It's always defending or protecting what they might lose This is something that you will see in every narcissistic relationship It's always the same The narcissist is always trying to take something from you While you may have been providing something to them But it got to a point where you couldn't give any more Because it was affecting you But since the narcissist doesn't care about you how it affects you is irrelevant to them It doesn't sway their decision-making Because all they care about is themselves They come around you to take from you They have no empathy So they don't care about how the behavior affects you The narcissist doesn't care about you or anything else Because they have nothing to lose Which is how you will notice that when they targeted you they were willing to drop everything Because they had nothing going on in their lives Nothing that was significant or important to them Which is how they were able to abandon in their lives and then they quickly wanted marriage or children from you Because they have nothing But they realize that there is a lot that they can extract from you Narcissists engage in such extreme behavior They will go to desperate measures to get what they want Without even thinking about the consequences Because there's nothing at stake they have nothing to lose So they're not afraid to act out They're not afraid to risk everything Because what they're risking Isn't even something that belongs to them It's something that belongs to you and here lies the key difference between us and narcissist Because we do have a lot to lose And we are afraid to lose what we have What we have worked so hard to establish But narcissists have nothing to lose So they don't think this way They don't care about what their behavior says about them They don't care about what their behavior causes them to become Which is why there's no cutoff point for what they do to you They will go to great lengths to get what they want But we don't do that because we are afraid of what we might lose They're not afraid because they have nothing to lose Which is why it's so easy for them to engage in hostile behavior. They don't believe in God or karma So they think that they can do whatever they want Because they don't think there's going to be any consequences for their actions Since they have nothing to lose anyway So they can act out and verbally abuse you without they care in the world Because they clearly do not believe in a higher power If they did they wouldn't act in this way They're aggressive towards you because they don't care about how their behavior affects you They don't care about how it affects your relationship While we would refrain from that type of behavior Because we're afraid that we might lose that bond But narcissists do not have this fear They really don't care because they see people as objects Everyone just exists to serve them And they believe that we are replaceable They believe that they can just find someone else There's nothing unique or special about you to the narcissist You're just an object that they use to meet their needs And they're used to dysfunctional relationships They're used to instability So they were already preordained to treat you in this way To them, arguments and fights are normal It's something that you should just tolerate Without fighting back And if you don't submit to their authority they will go to desperate measures They will assassinate your character They will ruin your reputation Because they don't associate themselves with you They see you as something temporary Which is why it's so easy for them to talk negatively about you to other people They will start a smear campaign against you They will call the police and make accusations about you Because they have nothing to lose And that is how they can resort to such extreme behavior Because in their minds You're not even a person You're just an object You just exist to meet their needs And if you can't do that Someone else will do it That's how they can be cruel and mean to you Because they don't value anything Everything is replaceable in their minds Everything is expendable But you're afraid to be cruel or mean to them Because you want to protect your reputation You have a lot to lose You don't want to be seen as that type of person But the narcissist has no identity They can engage in such extreme behavior Because they can abandon their identity at any moment They can pick up a new reputation somewhere else Which is why they don't value anything with you They have no incentive to control their aggressive behavior They will change their entire lives if they have to Because none of it means anything to them They have nothing to lose They can lose the reputation they have with you They will just go somewhere else and start all over again This is the difference Between us and narcissists This is how they are able to engage In such extreme behavior This is how they are so hostile towards you While you have a lot to lose So that stops you There's no cutoff point for them Because they have nothing When you have a lot to lose You will understand that it is your responsibility to maintain those things You will practice self-composure You will develop more control over your emotions Because you value what you have But you can lose it by being involved with narcissists So it's good to be afraid of losing what you have established This will lead you into the right direction Of going no contact with the narcissist And removing yourself from the lives of people who have nothing to lose People who don't care about you or anything else Thank you for watching I hope this video resonated with you Please like Comment Share and subscribe If you would like to donate my PayPal link It's in the video description Coaching inquiries You can email me at culture.narc-survivor.co.uk Thank you for watching and I'll talk to you soon


This doesn't happen very often, but sometimes you'll have something in your hand But you can't find it online to drag the information into Zotero, so you'll have to create your own Record so up here at the top and green. I'll just use a book as an example and Type in the one I have sitting right here. I'm going to leave some of this other stuff blank Just so that we don't have time to do it But there you go. So now it's in there. I could also attach Had a PDF if I had it or do whatever I want to do with it But I've just created a record and then obviously I would have to go in here another thing you can do I had a DOI number or an ISBN I could just search and then pull that in in this case I did a quick search and Ohio link actually has a copy of this book Up here at the top Pull in it's going to the training folder Then go back and now I have a separate copy And that one actually was better obviously because it had some data that it could pull in so I would probably just Take that first one and remove it and Now I have a much better record


I I don't even know what I'm gonna do. Oh Oh, I'm jacking dark jacket. Why why they specify dark jacket, bro I can't put any of this on the video man. This is all animated too. Well, I assume it's from the anime amtn Oh, yeah, that moment goes so crazy by the way. I can't wait till we talk about the most underrated fight in Dragonball Z So what what do you think the game's gonna have us? Yeah, what are we doing in here? Are we just scrapping? Oh, look at us Wait, are we gonna play this thing? Yes, we're practicing. All right, Nino. I'm Vegeta, bro Don't let me down. All right. Here we go ready. Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah.   I'm doing it bro. Do your digekies What did we do the whole game for do your digekies? Is this what we're supposed to do or am I supposed to fight? We can just walk.  Can we talk about how the screen is 2% while we need to be boom Oh, you're done you're done you're done. Oh, no, no shot.  Yeah, I'm Jean. Oh, no, no Give me my two stars. Get back here. Dotto. What is it now? Oh, you play too much, bro.  You missed out when I was a child. You weren't here. You were dead So I want to play tag well now.  Oh got him. We put it. No Yes, yes No, oh This is awful. Oh wait. Was that it? Did I do it? I did what was that only for one star though One two three four dammit. Yes, damn One star that she was hard You got the lead this is my this is my domain right now No, no, no, no, I'm not I'm the shooting geeky guy. See you can't do it, right? Well, I promise it come already. Let's go Oh He takes the lead and he's going with the jump kick air to air combo break that oh now It's the shooting de gecky. Is there a reason the cameraman is like socially awkward or get off of me On my own chaddle on my own boom do the why can't I move or do it? Let's go let's go no shot. No No, no Yeah, and that was it. All right back to the anime cutscene bro. He has been stalling damn Yeah, we we still just can't show this.    No bro because that's our hard play through when we come back and visit the game It's yeah, and nobody nobody's watching that row when we're podcasting shortnames Imperfect oh, whoa, we get an imperfect cell mission. Was that Vegeta? And trunks I'd be scared imagine a world where like they combine together that he's so Fusion no way we Well, I don't know this is actually just a ball. He's he's right there. Where do we might run away? Oh, no, he's running towards that way. How am I trunks now? What?  I thought I was definitely fighting him No, this is so we we had to hunt him down, but he's right here. Hey Yeah Something tells me that originally you were supposed to have to go find them and then they were like well We got to get this out so well. Yeah, we we actually don't want to work on this game anymore How did you wait? How did you get over there? I got hit with a force field. Oh wait We have to eliminate him to advance that means we're gonna. There is there is more to this I'm just trying to make sure we get all the collectibles.  I don't I don't remember. I'm trying to do that myself. I think it's there It's four triangles into a hold square.  Perfect. Oh, what is it? What I don't I don't oh He's going to heaven Why why the stage kind of look like a Spyro level and hold on well I don't want to bro. Why trunks don't like that. What do you mean? Oh My god, why why did he come out so wait what we're fighting cybermen again? Wait cyber man Yeah, we did damn. I sent that guy to the wall. Oh, is this cannon? This is not came in no way the Vigil left some sidemen on an island one time.  Are they taller too? I feel like Simon are not this long. Are they bigger? I think they're like little men. They are definitely bigger, bro.  Oh, there's a purple one damn. It's huge Wait, yeah, that way this guy that one is big. It looks like I destroy all humans care right there Ugly dude, I just want to go super saying man. That's so much that they are beating my hat We have so much help the sidemen are actually just worthless. Well, we just got out of the hyperalytic time chamber I know we were so beyond their level ice combo pointless job father son Did I just want to see it?  Oh, there was it was actually this is why we do a hundred percent play Oh, it's these guys again Don't worry, I got it, too. Ah, oh, you're about to go Super Saiyan I know I'm excited actually it's not every day You get to go Super Saiyan and Dragon Ball sagas one might say there's almost no days where you would do that Oh, you can do it.  No, I'll wait for the next batch enemies. Oh, look at the twirl Dude, look at look at Trunks's icon. And why am I still the same saga of Vegeta doing it? I'm gonna get off me I have to do this. I have to obtain a higher level. Now. Can I go? Can I go even beyond Super Saiyan? Surely we got something. Oh damn. Oh tight teeth. Oh, look at that back flip That was sweet. Wait, do you do different stuff? No I got so excited. Wait, do I do I do a different move though? Yeah. No, I'm a Super Saiyan You don't have to Can't see what I'm doing. I'm running out of Super Saiyan. Is everybody here dead? There is their cell Look at it. Look at it. Look at it standing in the background. Oh, oh, he is just over there. So Oh, there's the last key. What is this cameraman doing minus the fact that cell is, you know A bit pixelate. That's actually a pretty good second form cell model.  Oh you're doing a lot of damage. I know I'm a Super Saiyan.   I'm saying saga Super Saiyan. Look at that. Oh, you are you put your armor back No, no, we miss a whole thing over there and we no, no, we're going back cells gonna run away again. You think so. Yeah Yeah, I just super Saiyan. No, no, no, it's never a waste of you have fun. Are you having fun? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm like literally having the time of my life. Yep.  I just be doing stuff. Oh, oh, I think I think you made him mad. Oh, brother Oh, he's gonna Damn, he couldn't have flown over those Bro is pissed for no reason. Oh, was there anything else on this island or did you want to you want to chase after him? I want to chase after second form cell. Yeah. Yeah, or did you want to Oh, that's true.  Actually, I wouldn't mind if we like let him got like maybe a little stronger You know, that would actually be a lot more fun Yeah, we just let him train like we should give him whatever whatever he needs to be stronger How do you think we're gonna get that? Maybe we put him in the time chamber. Maybe that maybe that's what they were like Alluding to him. Yeah, I'm no good. You do it. Wait. No. No, I don't clip it. Got it. Damn. I'm good Yeah, we could I mean, there's no way they put an invisible barrier to stop us. Oh, wait.  I want to at least we do like substantial amount of damage These guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're not they're not as hard as they once were. All right, truly. That's it It's not Why why? Oh my god, why? Oh, yeah, we just are too good. Damn. This is shockwave move It's kind of this game is kind of like the Dark Souls of Dragonball games, you know Actually, yeah, wait, what? Oh, that makes perfect sense to me Can they stop doing that? time Oh, come on. Okay. Okay. All right. I jumped that one. He wants to do all he wants to do all that talking. Oh Oh Is there anything left for us to buy it? No combos. No melees, but at least we got lucky. Yeah, let's just get lucky. We become lucky. You can see What? Hey, what? How was that lucky? Okay? Well, let us know that nothing's near here. Wait. Oh, wait. Look. There is an action. What? Oh, what's up? Oh Cell is getting worked.  Wait. He looks different. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.  Why are we looking at him like that? Shouldn't have complimented him, bro That's awful. Oh wait here. I'm gonna give us more health thing. I'll watch this Oh, yeah, and I'm on the way. It's about to get bigger. So I'm saying it's like the Dark Souls What's this? Just got more health. That is pretty crazy for us. All right. I'm going in So this is perfect cell, huh? Oh, he's why he's you. He is so much stronger than us. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.  I'm not carrying three I'm carrying two. Yeah, I'm carrying three.  All right. That's everything. Is that everything?  Let's go. Let's go.  Oh, all right. I'm doing big deeps. Okay. First get off me. Oh one of those Oh, yeah, I'm just gonna chip him down. Yeah Welps I'm on the right side flank.  Let's go. Oh cell can't handle us. So can't handle He was about a flying punch me. I don't know about that. I am for some reason cannot hold my combo very well. Yeah, no good David.  Oh, he actually is doing damage. He's doing a lot of damage He did the barrier to stop himself. I am he is so tall.  I feel like Vegeta probably has something more than that gallon, you know Yeah, something a little more like final something with a little more finality to it.  It's like just I don't know.    Is this even part of this guy?  All right. You're dead. You're you're done. You're done.  You're done. You're done. They didn't they didn't think of a counter strategy this Frieza died to it Cell's gonna die to it. He's not dying.  There he goes. There he goes Boom. Oh, I'm dead. All right. Now. It's gonna let us play in Whoa, go on go super then. Oh wait. Oh my god.  Don't run Why are we running out of water? Because the time chamber is home to many phenomena also You blocked at the last thing. Yeah PVP.  It's a combo.  There we go. Oh damn. You gotta learn go on. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, they'll say wait for me All right, oh, this is gonna be hard. Hang on. I Imagine if this is how they trained in the hyperbolic Imagine you imagine you're missable when you open the door and just see them chasing each other around with Key Blast embarrassing. I Can't break the combo. Let's go Nice work, bro.  I mean, I am getting hungry always time to eat. Damn. Look at the way the clocks are spinning We're running out of time.  Oh Yeah It's this time. Oh, I've dropped it Three stars You get some chikara to get you stop don't do don't do this. Damn Yeah, and some of these I got longer legs. I still drop the combo though. Just No No, what you messed it up Super Saiyan you can go Super Saiyan That's when all right fine. I didn't realize we were kicking it up to that level. I guess I might as well match you. No, no No, I dropped it. No, this is the game vendor. You ain't got it. You ain't got it.  No, and I also did it wrong Well, let's see fell out of there Super Saiyan Yes, it's not the right one here.  I halfway through. I was just hoping one of us did it Whoo-hoo what why why didn't it go to say woohoo the cell the cell games Forfeiting them at what one to quit. Oh, oh, oh wait Goku's fighting now Also, I have my cape on must be stunned Simultaneously, what is huh? What does that mean?   I've ever seen in my life This is so cheap rose like this is not even fan made this is only the beginning We got one cell junior stun. I can't move all right We got one stun the other one that we stun got up wait. No is that how that works? Yes, bro They all need to be stunned. There's two down. It's three down. Let's go. Let's find it. Is that all of them? He's doing destructive. Oh That's like the best. We did it. We did it. Yes. Wait what happened. I don't know. I like that character We never really saw This guy died and made Gohan sad the game really just said Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 and now he's Super Saiyan 2 Are we is this the final? Are we at the end of the game the final showdown? Oh? SS to attain Super Saiyan 2 mode wait, so we're not Super Saiyan 2 already. No, why is self or my emoting? Oh, it's it's you again. You can't beat me. You can't beat me. There you go No attain Super Saiyan 2, but that means you have to keep fighting him to keep building your body how big that bar is No, let go of me. That's that's it. That's gonna be killer on the Super Saiyan time. Oh God Oh, bro if you fall out of Super Saiyan it is done, but that's not building your Super Saiyan Wait, wait what no one wait. No. Oh, I just realized you. Oh, holy. It's draining as well Yes, I don't realize that why is it draining at the same time that we're trying to get to it I just thought we had permanent SSJ one. Oh, no, my super Saiyan bar Honestly, it's not a you're asking to you man I needed to let it drain so that I could build it up without it draining. Oh wait that that is awful design Are you kidding me?  We're doing no damage to him right now base Gohan versus cell doesn't even look right It doesn't yeah, this feels weird. Are you gonna you gotta fight back?   I just got to play. I just got to play Oh Yeah, get your laughs to get your yucks in dude I just want to do the the infinite thing, but I can't seem to get it to go I must be doing something wrong.  He doesn't let me the wall Do we've done so much damage to him. It's crazy Stop so please oh Imagine if you have to sin to bean and it resets your Super Saiyan meter Oh my he keeps kicking Super Saiyan 2 better one shot is that it's gotta be the worst part of the whole game Yeah, this is bad.  I'm so low also the meter is like not going up at all Dude wait, you have to be in Super Saiyan to charge it. I was just gonna say I just realized you have to use no way Just no way no shot. No shot. No way, bro Just kill me. Just kill me so I can use what I said to me.  Yeah, you really do Because there's no point in life. Yeah, just do it. Just do it in me Oh my boy, you don't love this part of the game, bro. I just kill me. Yeah He did. All right. Come on, Dotto. Do it go Super Saiyan Dotto Dig deep with it. Oh Dig deep within Dotto.  You're not going deep enough. Go deeper. There we go I'm a Super Saiyan of legend, but I was just getting going Don't it I'll go climb the ranks of Super Saiyan. You have to get higher than that. I do. No, let's stop No, no, no No, stop No, stop. Oh, no Where'd he go? Go go go. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. Yes over there. Oh them. Yes, you're doing great. No, you're doing great way to play Come on, you're gonna get there. I believe in you. Oh, no. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep This is the one. This is the one I can sense it. You're so close Go beyond how do I do it? I think you have to charge up again Well, now I have to win. Why is the combo breaking me now? Go, Neno. You have to go beyond you got it Neno, you got it. Build it higher. Heal the rage of that guy that we lost in the country. Why are yours going so much more than mine? I feel it. I feel like this is gaining like crazy and now I'm over here. Just like it was it was a crumb Oh, no. Oh, no, Neno. Oh, no. It's not new, Dotto. Just do it. Oh, you're fast. Oh, I'm quick with it You're really fast. Okay. No shot. I have to do that much damage though That is a lot of damage and you're doing nothing really. It isn't draining though. So that's good It is I'm just fighting to put it back up. Use a use like a coming hours. Let's see what he does. I know I was good Wait Wait, he's just a big beam. Wait. Let me just charge up. There you go. I got you in a good position Never mind. I kind of threw it away because I did a combo.  That's what I want to get to as well.  Anyway, you're telling me his special move is just a mesinko. Oh, he's still doing quite a bit of damage to you You do dodge it. Oh, okay. Wait Please don't take me out of soup. No, it's it's draining you the whole time.  Oh my god, is that it?  Where'd he go?  Why am I blocking?  Well, I did not realize how low you are too. I am dying Which is why I'm trying to keep my super saiyan to it max if I can just look if I can just get him in the one loop Yeah, I can do deeps. Oh, oh the deeps.  Oh It was better this way. It was it was there. He's again, bro. He is fast though Quit Dude, I just I just want to talk to the devs, you know, just that this is it This is where you're gonna use when you're gonna go past super saiyan there No, because you're gonna finish them right here. I believe in you. I believe you don't break my combo cell.  Oh Dude, please I will say it better make us do it again Because if it ends like this that is even actually probably worse Wait, what wait wait are we doing it? Can I do the father son that actually be cool that that would be really cool He dodged it. Haha. Hey, you're super saiyan too.  That was so lame brah. That was actually a soul There's no way is this what our imagination was supposed to make the game look like a new era of peace on earth Because of us dada, we did it. We fought the good fight. We did that in this awful game I never even got to go super saiyan to dada.  I don't I don't want to say anything too mean because there's a lot of people that were I'm sure worked really hard to make this game I happened they probably they probably to make this game in literally 90 days shout out alberto's mexican food Damn, that was uh, what an experience.


Morning everybody. We're in St. Cloud, Minnesota Just getting ready to go We got a full day of trucking ahead of us today. We're gonna see how far we can get we're on our way down to Virginia Let's go Georgia, Minnesota My thermostat here is reading 38 and a half degrees Celsius. I Think it's 36 out here right now. Let's check this out 35 degrees last time my phone updated That's in Celsius Let's see. It's got severe weather alert here heat advisory until 7 p.m. Tonight. It's 34 Celsius What is 34 Celsius in Fahrenheit? One second we got a point two degrees Fahrenheit. What is 34 Celsius in Fahrenheit? 34 degrees Celsius is ninety three point two degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, so to you guys living in Nevada and stuff You're laughing at me now. Haha only ninety three only only ninety three trucker. Yeah, I'm a Canadian melting This is hot hot. We had that strong wind coming from the south last week, right? And it blew up all of this hot air from the southern u.s. Just wait for this guy to park This parking lot is absolute chaos all the time, but just so you guys know they've made half the parking spots Paid now, or maybe they always were it was just I didn't notice I'm noticing pilot flying J doing that a lot same thing with TA and all the truck stops every year slowly They're making more and more and more of the parking spaces paid spaces So if this is gonna become a thing in the future where we have to pay for all of our parking spots every single night Trucking companies are gonna have to start adding that cost on to the freight And what's that gonna do that's gonna make the cost of all your goods go up even more Okay, what's this guy doing? You can do it. You can do it. It works better if you just Go for it. Just go for it Send it There you go. You got it That it's a pretty tight spot to trying to get into. Hey, that's why I don't park here That's why exactly why I don't park here No offense to all you wonderful drivers out here, but I don't trust you There's no way I'd trust people not to hit me here He I mean you guys watching my videos. I know you guys can back up. I know you guys can drive Hey, you know what there's a lot of guys out here who should not be behind the wheel of a big truck I don't know how they got their drivers license But somehow they managed to muster one up out of a cereal box somewhere and they really shouldn't be here This guy seems to know what he's doing. He's just taking it easy being careful and that's okay That's okay. I'd rather you be slow and careful than fast and careless Okay, bud you but I need this space here to cut it wide around that Trailer over there. So I have to go through here. I can't just go around them Straight back my friends straight back. You got this you got this Better to be safe than sorry. I get it There you go. There you go You got it See I need this space cuz I need to pull it wide way around here. I Hate this parking lot. I do not stop here for this very reason and look at this This is why I needed to pull it so wide around here This is not a parking spot my friend, but I can still get out So I'll leave you be what else are guys supposed to do right the law says they have to stop and they got nowhere to stop And when there is some place to stop You got to pay for it Now whose responsibility is that to pay for it when people order freight and their freight has to get to them? Is it their responsibility to pay for parking for their freight on the way to their location that they ordered that they paid for? Is it the truckers responsibility? Like what if all spots were paid one day, right? That's what I'm talking about Would it be the truckers responsibility? That's just part of the job Is it the shippers responsibility the people who send out the freight? Is it the government's responsibility because they are mandating that we stop for night With penalty of like prison if we don't What I can tell you is gonna happen is if all spots become paid the cost of freight is just gonna go up Because if I if I'm delivering freight to somebody and in order for me to get it to where it needs to be I have to pay for parking along the way. It's gonna be added on to the freight bill Because unless you know Unless I order it myself like if you order product yourself That would just be part of shipping then right now be part of the shipping costs. All right. Let's get back out there onto the freeway Maybe we can find a streak and be can get this truck of bath Since I've been down there a couple of years ago Traffic is just insane huge traffic volumes, which is totally legal There's so much traffic that there's no way to get into the passing lane to get around them So you're just stuck behind them. It's my memories of I-65 between Indianapolis and Gary And we're gonna go straight so quick stop in Roberts, Wisconsin. I need a shower It looks like shower number nine Is ready we can reserve showers through the app We've been able to do that for a few years now already But that is awesome because then I can see I roll into the parking lot here I'll quickly check the app see if there's a big lineup for a shower and if there's not yeah I'll grab a parking spot and I'll run and grab a shower But if there's like six people in line for a shower right now because they're not cleaning them in there or something I'm like, oh, it's full and I roll back out and get back on the highway.  It's all heat like this in a long time And we're not even far south yet Got my trusty Walmart shower bag All the stuff I need in there. All I gotta do is get in there Within 10 minutes you have about 10 minutes from when you reserve your shower.   You need to go back inside for another shower. You're East Celsius Clean can't wait till I can get my frame done stretched painted Looking brand new again. There's a truck entering 65 lights are flashing red, which means it's a four-way stop that guy Did not that lady did not stop.  Remember these things have been growing right out of the concrete all different spots though Different spots.  This is not an exit the first Truck is a lot happier after a good service. We're into Illinois now Turn left on my L-251 small coffee just to get me through the rest of my Drive, we're gonna be driving late into the night here. So Hopefully I'll be able to find some parking We're headed down towards Not here. I do need to get further than Than this remember this this loves I think I do anyways. I'm pretty sure this is the exact truck stop I was at when I got the phone call that our house sold the last house Yeah, this was it. I was parked right over here to the right and I was standing over by the building to the left I Stopped here for the night and I got a call from our realtor saying that our house sold We got a really good price for it. I was really excited. It's a parking here. It is still Labor Day weekend So I'm guessing there's lots of parking everywhere. I'm kind of counting on that I don't know where I'm gonna park tomorrow night. We're gonna be right around Roanoke, Virginia later in the evening So hopefully all the truck stops aren't just packed full Plenty of parking here, and I wish I could stay here, but if I stay here, I'm not gonna make it Tomorrow I need to get further. I don't mind driving late to the night I actually prefer driving late to the night in summertime in wintertime I like to stop earlier because I don't want to drive into a cold night When everything's closed, you know, I'm just gonna Thread the needle here real slow me to drive yet I do prefer night driving but in the summertime in the wintertime is different story. Well, it depends what the temperatures are It was a really hot day today. They're really hot 36. I saw it up to 38 Celsius at one point now It's back down to 22 22 Celsius What's 22 Celsius and Fahrenheit? 22 degrees Celsius is equivalent to 71 point six degrees Fahrenheit That is perfect.  I hope I find parking. I don't know where we're gonna park tonight. Yeah, we'll figure it out All right coffee time We're driving into the night. I'm taking you with me. You guys want a coffee? No, you sure? All right, I'll just get myself one then Small one. We're not crazy.  I had to replace them both already on this trip They were there when I picked the truck up. So I don't know what happened Three hours and 32 minutes to drive and we have four hours and 18 minutes to do it in. Whoo Let's go exit 206 I-74 in Illinois close to the Indiana border Found myself a truck stop There's a bunch here actually there's a pilot across the street There's a loves across the freeway and there's this little speedway here And there's another one cross over there that had a dark unlit parking lot I chose this one. There was lots of spots at all the truck stops, but all the good ones were taken So I felt like this was The most reasonable safe spot to park though. I do have a swift truck beside me who knows didn't But I think it'll be okay It'll be okay He's got decals on the side or decals. Sorry Americans, he's got decals on the side of his truck. Let's say that he's a veteran of The US military that gains my respect. I Trust that he can back out of here without hitting me Parking here. See there's the pilot across the street over there It's a road 66 right next door and then way over there a little light there Oops, sorry, that's the loves travel plaza and this guy decided to nose in I could have gone on this side of him Maybe I should have I mean he does have lots of space to back out It was sure a long day today tomorrow is gonna be a little bit shorter I did them not the majority, but I did a bigger part today Then I'll have to do tomorrow. We went about a thousand kilometers today about 600 miles and tomorrow We got to do about 900 kilometers 250 so I just did a little bit more today that I'll have to do tomorrow Still not sure exactly where we're gonna spend the night Tomorrow but I didn't know where we were gonna spend the night tonight either. I just sort of figure it out as we go We'll see what happens Thanks for hanging out with me today though was just a steady day of driving we went through Most or a lot of Minnesota went through all of Wisconsin We went almost all the way through Illinois the border with Indiana is just a little bit further East of here. We'll go through that tomorrow. I guess we're going through what states are gonna be going through tomorrow Let's check it out on the map Indiana all of Indiana probably maybe a little bit of Ohio a little corner there or We're gonna be going down to Louisville. Let's see where my road is taking me. Well, maybe Ohio we're gonna be going through Kentucky and Into Virginia, maybe West Virginia a little bit. Oh Watch the way to see Tune in tomorrow and find out it'll be fun beautiful day if we are going through West Virginia You know, it's gonna be beautiful scenery. I love West Virginia because it's just rolling hills It's amazing. I haven't been there in years Kind of excited to go back and see what's changed to see what stayed the same Ah, I know what stayed the same though. I'm just as tired now as I was when I parked But I've got spaghetti Oven here my wife made me spaghetti before I left home. I think it's ready.  It's the good stuff right there. I'm ready to eat Go to bed I'll see you tomorrow. You stay safe. You be safe and You right there