I would like to call to order a meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Cultural Heritage Board and ask for a roll call, please. Let the record reflect that all board members are present except for board members viewser and debacle. Okay. Before we go any further, I just want to bring to everybody's attention that we have a new cultural heritage board member joining us, Mr. Kurt and Mr. Kurt. I would like to welcome you to the board. I have been with on the planning commission for a couple of years and really a great Santa Rosa asset and deep knowledge and wanted to welcome you to the board, back to the board and wanted to ask you to maybe introduce yourself and give you the floor. I would like to introduce myself as possible. I a number of years ago served 18 months on the cultural heritage board and liked it thoroughly. At that time I don't know if you still have it, I was the liaison from the cultural heritage board to the railroad square association there for the commercial part of railroad square and then subsequent to that I spent a little more than six years on the planning commission and enjoyed that experience very much as well and it seems that coming back here will be a really for me at least a good blend of positive experiences in trying to address matters before the city so very happy to be back. Thanks Kurt, thanks for joining us and looking forward to working with you again. Okay, next let's move to the approval of the minutes from our September 4th meeting. Board members, any revisions or comments to those? Okay, those will stand as printed. And next we'll move to item number three, statement of board business and board purpose. The cultural heritage board shall consider the following matters, standards, guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable in determining whether to grant or deny a permit, whether the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the structure or preservation district structures, whether the colors, textures, materials, fenestration, decorative features and details proposed are consistent with the period and or are compatible with adjacent structures, whether the proposed change destroys or adversely effects an important architectural feature or features, the secretary of the interiors standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating the site. And we'll move to item number three, the public comment. This is a time for any member of the public wishes to speak on a matter of interest or related to the cultural heritage board to approach one of the lecterns at the top of the room. I don't have any comment cards, but you don't need to fill out a card if you want to speak. If you do, please state your name and you'll have three comments. And I'll open public comment. I'm not seeing... Oh. So tonight, Ms. Tumions, maybe you could help me out. It's not a public hearing or is it on the concept item tonight. So if the public has a comment, they would be invited to speak under public comment. That's right. For the item posted on the agenda, yes. Right, yes. So the comment would be for... At this point would be comments on items that are not on the agenda. So items that perhaps you would add to a future agenda item unless you're deciding to move forward with the item tonight. Well... The concept review is or isn't a public hearing. That's just... I wasn't under the impression that it was necessarily a public hearing, but it was a public hearing. So it's not a public hearing, but it was noticed and so the public can comment on the item once it... Once you bring it forward. Okay. So now isn't the time and I'll invite you to give comments after we've heard the staff presentation. Okay, thank you, sir. All right. Okay, any statements of one item tonight? Any abstentions? It better not be because we are just at a quorum right now. Okay, no abstentions. Okay, with that we move to item six. The concept design review for the landmark alteration permit 4135 West 6th Street. And Mr. Wixen. Yeah, thank you, chair. We'll give the staff presentation. Thank you, chair Edmondson. My name is Mike Wixen. I'm a director of the city and I'll just briefly go over this project. And with me at the... I want to say podium our table is Robin Stefale who is the project architect also and I'm sure she could speak to the project right after I complete my little short presentation. Okay. So this is a major landmark alteration permit because of a few different items. Basically it triggers a criteria for major landmark alteration permit and this is basically step one of that process which is to look at the concept design review. So just trying to track where we're at here. We're in the west end preservation or historic district area. So west of the freeway 101 site the general plan land use is primarily low density or low residential density in this area. And then the zoning is primarily R16 SAH. The... There are a few PDs in the area as well next door. But it's primarily a residential area with a few mixed commercial uses. This is just a map showing the contributing structures in the historic overlaid area. So you can get a quick glimpse of those structures in the neighborhood that have also historic value in our considered contributing structures. So that really is my presentation. The project itself, I didn't really even describe the project, but the project itself is really a remodel of an existing building. It's a single family residential use and the applicants are proposing to remodel the interior primarily so that we can see what's going on in the area. So I think that's one of the things that's really important in this project. And I think that's one of the things that really leads to some exterior changes that are before you today to consider and have input in for. So with that, I'll turn it over to Rob and she might have a few more things to add. Sure. It's on the corner of Madison and West 6th Street as seen right there on the corner of West 6th and Madison. The house is situated towards the front of the property and it's a fairly small lot. There is the house from Madison and West 6th Street as it exists today and a site plan showing the pattern of the sun and prevailing which are kind of important to the overall consideration of why we went with the addition and remodel the way that we went with the addition remodel. The current house, the main part of the house is a traditional center hallway design with the living quarters off of either side. The front of the house is where the steps are located. There is a living room and a bedroom and then coming back around to the rear of the house we have some more utility functions of the house. The two main bathrooms and a mud room and entry and then kitchen and two bedrooms. The applicants try to figure out how they could better utilize the space while keeping maximum use of the yard area. They have three young children who are here today and so a need for having some additional living space on the ground floor but also a couple of extra bedrooms. Right now they have three children and really have a three bedroom house. How could they reconfigure the house a four bedroom house and have maximum use of the yard where some of the leading program constraints that we were dealing with. The house is built it's a fairly old house it's classified as an Italianate vernacular it was built estimated at 1872 and it probably was moved somewhere between 1915 and 1935. The Italianate style let me just go back here if I can let's see. The Italianate style was very popular during that time period and essentially was a variety of different European styles that were adapted for whatever house the builder was using and what would typically happen back then was that the homeowner would use a standard plan and hire a builder to build a standard plan and make some minor variations depending on where they were and essentially what their budget was. Some of the features of Italianate style are low-pitched roof with overhanging eaves decorative brackets tall narrow windows elaborate frames around the doors and windows and different kinds of mill work and embellishments depending on again the budget and locale size of the house. Some of the constraints that we were dealing with on this particular house is that let's see here as you can see the house although very old and really unique hasn't really been the front of the house hasn't really been kept up probably because the original porch has been replaced with more of economical version of what was originally there it's hard to really know we weren't able to find any old photos of the house so we're just basing it off the fact that the lumber looks relatively new and couldn't possibly be from the time period of the house and also we know that in this neighborhood that was very common is that this neighborhood has been replaced with more of a high end area and so when things were replaced they weren't necessarily replaced in the most historically appropriate manner. So that's pretty much what we think happened to the porch although there's no evidence of existing porch structure but just guessing based on the fact that the porch that exists right now but one thing that was preserved on this house and is really quite lovely are the brackets that adorn the house around all four sides of the house and we felt that that was the strongest Italian feature of the house and strongest historical element and we really wanted to keep that unaltered so that was another constraint of the house that was preserved on this house. So the existing mill work at the bay window you can see around the window we believe that's original oh my gosh I don't think I want to chance that and so we also wanted to preserve that existing mill work and see where we could bring that home owner to. So that's the house that's strong on this house is its symmetry its overall squareness maybe and then we are also dealing with the constraints of reality and budget and so how do we design the program that the homeowners are looking for and how can we make use of that framing and that really high quality grade wood and lumber. Well at the same time there's some aspects of the foundation and basement that I'll talk about in a little bit that we need to be very careful about and so we ended up doing a structural analysis of the building early on to just sort of understand what we're dealing with because the house is so old we wanted to know what our options were and you know what status the actual foundation was in and what our opportunities were. So just to give you some other views of the house for reference there's the side of the house next to the neighbor and then the side off of Madison and then that's the rear backyard. And so what the program that we ended up coming up with the other thing that was desired was there aren't a lot of closets in this house as is typical of older structures and so they have this existing basement which currently you can only access through going outside and going down these very steep basement sort of you know hatch doors and so how could we potentially get an interior stairwell so that they could use the basement for additional storage needs. And because of the front to back internal hallway and there's also some really interesting features on the interior of the house such as molding and other historic elements that we wanted to try to preserve that really the only location for the stairs is where you see them we tried various options for moving the stairs in other locations this ended up being the most economical and reasonable solution because any other solution would require way too much altering of the existing house and basically be unfeasible from a budgetary perspective. So what you see here is the existing basement kept as it is potentially when we do further analysis we may be able to lower portions of the floor so that you get more head height and a little bit which shows you that but being able to get down there through a basement stair the stair will continue up to the top floor and the top floor will have the master bedroom and another bedroom and bathroom and a little adjunct sewing study area. So this is the proposed elevation and what we tried to do was keep the original cemetery of the roof intact and the cornices bracketing intact and the yard intact while still allowing for the most usable space in the attic and here's the section and so you can see the constraint on the stair and how we could do the stair in regards to the dormers was one of the major I think structural challenges of this project. What you see there is I call the dimension that shows the head clearance height to the existing roof which is not adequate and so we needed at that edge because that's where the stair would come up and there's no other way to do the stair so we needed to get the full 6 8 head clearance and so that needed something on that wall had to go up there and that kind of ended up informing the rest of how we worked around I mean it was kind of push and pull process to get this to work and dial it in but that was one of the leading constraints and when I looked at other dormer styles for this particular house it became very difficult to do any other dormer style because of the fact of where the stair comes up and some of the other structural engineering criteria that we received which said that we needed to keep the weight of the house as close to the original structure as possible so adding a lot of weight adding another story would have required full redo of the foundation system which wasn't practical so you know one of the challenges was that this is an Italian style home many of the Italian style homes that you see around Santa Rosa are multiple stories and they're very elaborate this is more of a vernacular version of Italianate and so how do we add on to and do in addition that allows for that ability to see the original structure and have the building evolve over time and still make sense for the historic Italianate style and so part of adding the ridge cresting which you see part of the desire for adding that ridge cresting and so on. So I think we should give it a little bit more height so that you get more of a separation of the dormer from the top height of the flat portion of the roof and we also I forgot to mention need to egress out of those windows so there are some constraints about the size of those windows and the openings and just being able to get out of those windows is an option as well. Let's see. So these are some of the Italianate style homes that you see around Santa Rosa. They tended to be very adorned, the ones that survived that we see today typically have a lot of detailing and elaborate cornices and mill work and what they refer to as the building outside of the building. The image on the corner there is from the Alfred Hitchcock movie which is a home here in McDonald's neighborhood that has the ridge cresting and the ridge cresting idea actually came from Paul who had this idea that he wanted to watch the fireworks off his roof. I think the fact that these homes did have that ridge cresting in a lot of cases and it helped with the overall feel of making the house seem a little bit more embellished than it was because it's pretty just unadorned right now with the exception of the bracketing. So how can we adorn this house in a way that is a little bit a little bit more jewelry if you will? This is the existing front porch and so what we'd like to do is keep the shed and the simpleness that you see here but just step up the adornment just a little bit by having some custom mill work done that's similar to what we would call the house. So we have this little house that ties in to that bay window and so the post and the railing and the I'm forgetting the name of those little guys now for some reason but the smaller railing brackets those would be also kind of perfect. The plan is that we want to replace one of the windows and in its location add a door to the exterior and add a rear porch and the windows that we're looking at right now are the Marvin signature collection because they have a variety of windows that and doors that kind of work that we're going to be able to do. We're going to have egress windows that will work for that complicated upstairs dormer. Those are going to need to be very, very special windows. So they have the ability to do that. They also have the ability to custom make historic windows. So right now the original windows, we don't think any of them are actually existing with the exception of the bay windows. We're going to be able to do that. So the windows that we're trying to pick are somewhere in between what probably were originally there and what is there right now. The rear part of the house was added on sometime in the last 15 years. So it's not really that historically accurate. So we're kind of trying to blend what we should have done from the very beginning with kind of what's happened here. So I was talking about the special tilt turn windows. And they have some nice nods to the historical cladding that you would see, the sub-sills. And then also they have not a divided light that from, you know, it'll it's not an actual divided light that you would see historically, but it appears that and it will work for the dormer window locations. So the current there is on the left and the propose is on the right. Let's see. I just want to make sure I hit all of the high points here. I guess just in closing, I would say that this was a very challenging project in that in order to get the program that was desired by the family, we had to kind of push the envelope and go for a very dramatic roof change, which, you know, is not something that I would do lightly on a historic building. So we took a lot of care in making sure that it fit with what's here and that it would work feasibility-wise from a structural and from a budget perspective. And, you know, some of the things that we were really worried about were just staying, keeping as much of the actual historic components that are really nice about the building. And, you know, we were really worried about the fact and trying to bring out more of that and kind of bring out more of the Italian style without overdoing it too much and ruining the vernacular look of the building. So we believe that this really meets the rehabilitation standards of the Secretary of the Interior for treatment of historic properties in that it is new construction. It's an addition. It's considered an addition, but it's not identical nor in extreme contrast to the historical structure, and that the proposed project is consistent with the original architectural style and details of the historical building, such as the roof pitch, the openings, the details, including channel siting with corner trim and porch details, and that it complements the existing millwork at the front bay window. It keeps with the original building. So we believe that the original building was important, and the dormers create usable space and egress from the top floor while preserving the original brackets, which are the defining element. And we believe that the drama of the Italian 8th style is, you know, being brought out here, and I guess in closing we just hope that you can support a bold move to try to make this project more accessible to the public and to the community. And I hope that you can understand this neighborhood and grow in the West End and be able to make this house their family home. Thank you. Thank you very much. Board members, any questions right now before I ask for any public statements? We can go ahead and hear from the public. Okay. We have three minutes to address the board. My name is Pat Bailey. I live in the West End. And I'm instead of calling them the applicants, I'll refer to them as Paul and Veronica. I'm a neighbor and friend and perhaps more importantly, my four-year-old is best friends with their four and a half-year-old. It's critical that we keep people like Paul and Veronica I could wax poetic for a long time about all the things they do. Veronica is a family doc who has frankly been there in the first weeks of the lives of many of the kids in our neighborhood. Paul has been involved in every birthday party, adventures, gathering, et cetera, that's occurred. He's currently a soccer coach that it's near as I can tell he's eager but only barely qualified to be based on his soccer experience. Most of us who live in the West End live in modest size houses. Mine is under 1200 square feet, theirs is maybe 100 square feet. More than that, I'm not sure the details. Their desires are modest. They want enough space so that when Paul's parents visit from Arizona, the three kids don't have to go into one bedroom. They would like to be able to host a dinner where people get to sit down rather than having the younger members of the family stand while they eat. They're asking for permission to put an amount of money into this house that frankly a realtor would probably tell them doesn't make any sense at all. They have options. They could move to a larger house in a neighborhood with fewer homeless people, better schools, less trash, et cetera. They want to live in our neighborhood and we want to keep them. I'm not an architect. I'm a mechanical engineer. I know something about building houses so I can't speak about architectural vernacular styles, original fabric, what's not, what is. I'd say the renderings are attractive to me. I think they'll add to the house. To the degree that you have comments, recommendations, et cetera, for their project, my request would be that you make those recommendations and comments, et cetera, actionable. It's going to be an expensive project, however you slice it, but iterations of review and redesign and going back and forth are emotionally difficult, financially difficult, et cetera. People give up and move somewhere else because, frankly, it's easier to buy a different four or five bedroom house rather than remodeling an existing one. I know that's certainly been true for our house. Thank you for your time and please help facilitate our dear friends, Paul and Veronica and their family staying in our neighborhood. Thank you, Mr. Bailey. Hi. My name is Deborah Crippen and I'm also in the West End. I was thinking today about all of our houses. All of our houses were built with what people could build at the time they could and then added on to and added on to and added on to. I look at my house and I think there was probably, I think it was originally a two-bedroom house with no bathroom and a teeny tiny kitchen area. Now it's three bedrooms, two baths, has a closed-in porch area. And if you look at the structure, you can tell it was done over time because people, their families grew or they got a little more money or they were able to make changes. And we have a problem in the West End in that a lot of our families do move out because they need a little bit bigger houses. And I personally want to keep our neighborhood as diverse as it is and keep it that way and not have it all become a bunch of us old farts without kids. It's enjoyable to have the kids in the neighborhood. It's great to have people who are active in the neighborhood like Veronica and Paul and the kids. And that's what we're striving for in the West End. And I think we need to have a little bit of leeway within expanding some of the houses that we have in the West End to accomplish that. So I would hope that you guys could see the future of the West End as well as the future of Santa Rosa with providing a little more housing. Thank you very much. I'm not seeing anybody else approach the podium.  That's why I pause on those. A little more than people think I might need to. Go ahead, sir. Mine was just so I'm Paul, one of the homeowners. And just one thing that we didn't call out there is that picture you had of the porch back there. That's actually only visible from within the yard or if you stand up right up against our driveway and kind of look over the fence. So that part of it in terms of like what's visible from the street that is essentially the edge of the deck would be visible. But that whole like French door thing that's not visible from the street unless you stand in one of those spots. So in case it makes a difference. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Board members, any questions for the architect or for staff or if the applicants would be the best suited to answer, we could invite them to answer. But maybe I'll start with Board Member McHugh. Any questions at this time? I had one question about the design and you used some examples of McDonald Avenue and that sort of thing. How is this design consistent with the West End? Which part? The porch, the dormers? I mean, just the whole structure. So I think it's fairly consistent with the West End. There is a lot of mill work in the West End. If you look at the porches, there's a kind of a hodgepodge of different approaches to doing the porches. Some of them are more squares and there's lots of round milled porches with all manner of level of intricacies and details from very, very plain to fully elaborate. So in that, I mean, I think that the West End has so many different kinds of houses in it that if there's no one house that this matches entirely, but if you take individual components of it, there's individual components of it throughout the whole West End. With the exception of the ridge cresting, which I think is more McDonald mansion, but also throughout Santa Rosa, you'll see it. And what typically you'll see is just the remnants of some of it. A lot of it unfortunately gets just, you know, taken off as they re-roof and never put back on. So you can see the various elements of ridge cresting throughout downtown Santa Rosa, Petaluma, Hildberg, but not a lot of it's been well taken care of. Okay, thank you. Board Member Fennell, any questions? Questions? No questions? Board Member Veronica, any questions? A couple. I'll probably make a kind of a generalized comment trying to get myself back up to speed here in terms of cultural heritage board matters. First of all, did I, in my correct and understanding that this is a contributor home to the neighborhood historic nature of it? And maybe to the rest of the board and to Kristen A, my recollection is that we're, as a board, most concerned about the exterior views on all four sides, if they are street visible and so on, as opposed to, in essence, the interior driving what needs to be done on the exterior or on the roof in this case. Yeah, that's correct. If it was just a rear addition that wasn't readily visible from the street, the review would drop down to the zoning administrator. So what we're really trying to do is protect the very prominent views of the structure, the contributor. Then the next kind of, this probably speaks more to myself in terms of viewing and trying to understand these things, but again in historic neighborhoods, contributor homes, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the when one purchases a home, they're notified that they are in a historical district through the title reports, is that it? And so that they then come under those limitations, what are restrictions or guidelines, whatever you want to call them, is that correct? I'm not sure because the city is not involved in that notification process, I don't know. Anyway, I'm just, I'm more curious than anything else. Pardon. Then getting to it, I guess the way I look at these matters, first of all, I think what is being proposed here is a good approach to a difficult situation in terms of the structure of the site and so on and so forth, but typically kind of then have to balance between a strict constructionist view and that of a broad construction, in other words, how far can you push the limits, I think is what you were saying. And saying that, I still have a question more for an understanding, the porch itself was either an add-on or a remodel to the building at some time in the past, and perhaps is not conforming to the original nature of the neighborhood or the home. The bay windows were? We believe those were original. Original, that's what I thought to. I think in terms of comments, then what I see at least looks good and that it is difficult, the dormers I think are a positive addition as well as a necessary one, as I understand it. Maybe it's not true Italianate, whatever, but if it assists the home owners in expanding space and it's still viewed as a positive contribution to the neighborhood, I would suggest, and I'm not certain in case there's the approach on these here, but I would suggest that you keep moving forward with it. Great. Just have a question or two. You talked about the crest having been drawn in inspiration from downtown and from McDonald's neighborhood. Roughly, where would the nearest example that you have in mind as you answer that question, where would you have found that, how close to the project site? Sure. There's some evidence that there was some cresting along Wilson Street, which is roughly about three blocks on some of the older structures on Wilson Street. Within the West End, there were structures that probably had some cresting on them at some point. Maybe just one or two elements you can still see visible today. There are also on 4th Street. There's a couple of homes that have some of the original cresting still in place. They probably had more in the past, but have been remodeled and lots of it removed, I'm assuming. Then about a mile into McDonald's neighborhood, you'll see it. There is an all-on-cherry neighborhood too, which is the adjacent historic neighborhood there some. Would you find examples of structures that are similarly sized and similar heights having cresting that would resemble this in terms of how extensively you would propose to use it and where it's located? Yeah, that was one of the challenges was to try to find more of a vernacular house that had cresting on it. We did find one on 4th Street, and I believe it was included in the packet, the original packet. Right now, the only cresting that remains on that house, it's roughly the same size, is that it had it on the front entryway, and you can see it visible there. So, number three. Yeah, okay. And I wanted to ask a question about the proposed window there and the trim around it. I'm trying to, let's point to a good visual of it on the plant set. In the dormer or the rear? The dormer. The dormer, okay. You said there were constraints having to do with, I guess, ingress or egress, actually. Yeah. Let's hope not ingress to the upper window. The trim is, what I would characterize as narrow, fairly narrow, is that, by choice, is that a constraint? How much latitude do you have with the width of the sort of frames or the trim around those? Yeah. Yeah, and I kind of alluded to the challenge. So, you'll see the bay window, which are the only windows that we think were original windows, but they could have also been replaced. They're not terribly obvious what happened there, but they are, that configuration looks like original configuration and windows, and you can see how narrow the reveal is. So, the Marvin Ultra Series can come in either a narrow profile or a larger profile, and we can do either of those. The functionality of the egress is more about the opening space, and so the window, the profile of the window could be made wider without infringing on the opening ability of the window. But because there is a hodgepodge of different windows on this building to try to blend and not make it look too incongruent, I picked that one. I think I actually have, yeah. So, you can see that these are a little bit wider here, but the tilt turn window has a more narrow profile. And yeah, it's a challenge, because the windows in the back, we need the windows in the dormer to match the new door, French door going to the porch, but the windows in the back addition were done 15 years, 10 years ago, and aren't historic. So, we can come back with more details specifically about the windows and how we're finding the right window. I think that I didn't exhaust my opportunities at this point, because I wasn't sure what suggestions I was going to get back from you, but that's certainly something we will pay very special attention to, and it's critical that we get right, or at least as right as we can for this project. Great. Thank you. Very good detailed answer. Appreciate it. I don't have any other questions. Maybe I can just circle back around for comments. Board Member McHugh, any comments? No comments. Board Member Faddle. I like this project. I like that I like what you're doing. I like that you're taking the Italian 8 style and bringing it back into the house. And we see this a lot in the different historic neighborhoods where the 60s happened and then the 70s happened and the houses changed and they didn't change good. And I think what you're doing is I really like it. I think that I appreciate so much that you're trying to put your wood windows in and you're using the existing structure to help guide you as you make the additions, and that's all we can ask for. And so I really support this project. And Board Member Gronick, any final additional comments? No further comments. Okay. I agree. I like this a lot. It's very nice. I think Mr. Bailey, I think Abel, representative of your project as well as your professional. And I couldn't agree more about the character. We're talking about architectural character when we assess a project, but when we're, you know, part of the descriptions of the historic neighborhoods has to do with the living patterns that they allowed. And it really always has been the case that we the neighborhoods like the West End neighborhood and neighborhoods that have that longevity are welcoming to families and have people who can live their entire lives in one house if they so choose. And it's important to make sure that we don't get lost too much about what makes a neighborhood have character and what a neighborhood character really constitutes. So I think that it was appropriate for everybody to bring up those comments and I agree. This window and the millwork around it are really the sort of touchstones of this property. And it's really beautiful what's there. And I think that you made some smart decisions with pegging a lot of the other choices off of that. I'm not particularly concerned with any of the elements that aren't visible from the street. I think that falls into, you know, what our proper purview is and isn't. I was just struck a little with the narrowness of the tram around the front facing window there, the windows on the front top there. I don't know what it would take. I didn't have a counterfactual to look at. But maybe if the option could be presented, I'm not even ready to say that that's a critical thing for me. But to the extent it doesn't create too big a headache, I'd be curious to see what that would look like. And then the crest doesn't strike me as an element that works for the historic character of the neighborhood. I would still be in support of the project even if it included that element. But it's just a thought that I feel it would be more consistent if it had a little bit of a different adornment or less, maybe not the ridge crest there at the top. Also, we are a six-member board right now and a seven-member board generally, and there's going to be an appointment at some point for that vacancy. And I would encourage you certainly to affirmatively contact the members who are not at this meeting. And just ask them if they have any questions in preparation for if this appears on an agenda in the future. Make yourself available to them to avoid them needing you to come back again to meet concerns that they might have. But overall, I think it definitely is an improvement. I like the work on the porch. I like the porch railing. I think that's a real nice touch. And considering all the constraints, a lot of appropriate choices. I love the slide AA, the signs and the artwork on the house. That's not part of our purview either, but it's all very nice. So yeah, do be sure to follow up with the board members who aren't here and consider their comments. But I think that it's a nice package and very thorough and appreciate all of your efforts and hope to see you back here. And that, if there's no further comment, we'll conclude this item. Okay. We're going to move on. And I'll just give everybody a minute to get gathered before we do that. All right. So let's move on to item number seven, which is board member reports now on the iPad version of the agenda. This wasn't included. And I'm curious to hear what the other board members think about it. But it's on the paper agenda, and it was, excuse me, indicated to me by email earlier in the week that we could take this up today. But we are in need of a vice chair. Now, of course, there's just four of us here today. I don't know what vote is necessary to carry the appointment of a vice chair, but I expect it would be a majority. And I think that probably a majority of three would constitute a valid appointment. But I have not heard from any member of the board that they are interested in serving as vice chair. I've also not solicited that kind of answer from people. So I think that it might make more sense to continue this to the next meeting. And that way in the interim, everybody can think about it. And then if we happen to have more board members the next time, so much the better, so more people could weigh in on the decision. Anybody who has a thought, just please feel free to share it. I'm supportive of that. Continue we get. Is there any disagreement? Okay, board member final. Okay, so we'll put that on the next agenda, please. Same position is fine. And then we will go ahead, excuse me, and reach out to the board member muser and board member debaker and let them know to expect that on the next agenda. Board member reports is item number seven on the agenda. Board members anything to report besides Mr. Groninger joining us? Any reports? And then we move to item eight department reports. Any department reports? No department reports other than after today, Susie Murray will take over as CHB liaison going forward. And it's been a pleasure working to serve the Cultural Heritage Board for as long as I did. So thank you. Thank you very much.  I'm sure sometimes you'll be back. But thank you very much for all of your hard work and all of your help and all the diligence and help that you brought to the applicants. Really, I'm always so impressed with our planning staff and I love Susie. And so it's nice that I'll get to see her again. But anyway, I'm sure I'm speaking for everybody in recognizing your hard work and your talent. And thank you very much personally. Boy, that is the last item on the agenda. So with that, we are going to adjourn. And there is a joint meeting set for now five o'clock. The 4.30 meeting has been rescheduled to five for quorum purposes. So the Design Review Board and Cultural Heritage Board will convene a joint meeting at five o'clock.


You know most of the time in life when we aren't sure what to do, we do one of two things. We either conform, which is what most people do.  And on the other side is we rebel. So we do the opposite of what we see everyone else doing. But I think for so many people there is a deep, deep, deep flaw to this way of thinking. And I think in this video I'm going to give you an insight that will help you quite a lot. What's up guys? Alex Hine here. Now before we jump in I've put together a free goal-setting worksheet to help you have the best year ever of your life. So it's the first link right below this video and it will help you figure out what you want, the daily rituals to make that happen, and an action plan for each hundred days of the year. So check it out right below this video. Now the inherent problem in this idea of taking anyone's advice is that by definition most people are average people living average lives. So what that means is that if you are taking the average person's life as an example you're getting average advice from someone who thinks an average way, who lives an average way, who believes in average beliefs, who has an upper limit on what they think they can achieve. The most fundamental thing is if you want anything other than the average standard life then you need to be doing something other than the average standard life. And to do that you probably should not be taking advice from people living the average standard life. You know so when you take advice from your parents or your friends or a mentor or a teacher the first question should always be are they living the life that I want to be living?  Everything invisible and visible has produced mediocrity, sorry. And you know an average person is not going to give you exceptional advice because everything that they've built in their life is a manifestation of thoughts and beliefs that they have. So they have the average actions, not exceptional actions, they have beliefs about what you think you can achieve that are not that special.  Now the second thing I want to leave you with here is never settle for what you think you deserve. Only settle for exactly what you want. You know most of the time what you hear from the average person is that when they give you advice they're basically telling you to settle. They're almost never telling you to go after the dream and be more ambitious.  So this is a great story that the greatest entrepreneur who ever lived is somewhere in a grave and they were too afraid to take the chance on their dream or on that invention or in that business or on that innovation. The greatest entrepreneur who ever lived never even tried because they were probably too afraid and a lot of that is due to the voices of the people around us. In my opinion you should never ever settle for what you think you deserve. You should go after what you actually want. So what do you actually want? Do you want a certain income level? You only believe you can make 50 or 60k because your dad did what you really want is 150 or 160k because that's the dream life then why don't you figure out how to make that happen? Or how about that person? You think you're only whatever a five on the dating scale in terms of overall raw desirability intelligence personality looks being interesting values achievement whatever it is well if you want whatever that holistic 10 is to you why don't you figure out the kind of person you have to become to be attractive to that kind of person and not just lowering your standards because everyone tells you you should settle because you're 25 or 30 and you better be married in two years because the clock is ticking and all the good ones are gone. What about the dream life you want to live in general? How many hours a day do you want to work right? I primarily work three full days a week no one says you have to work five or six of course you're going to have to be an entrepreneur how many days do you want to travel like the average american gets like seven to ten days of travel i take several months of vacation a year because that's when i need to feel happy and feel like my life is full because the whole reality you are living in as steve job said was created by people no smarter than you you don't have to settle for anything you don't want you can design almost virtually whatever you want so don't ever settle psa off my soapbox and done for the day again guys don't forget go after what you actually want not what you think you deserve or what's realistic do what you actually want because most often you end up getting that it may take longer than you want but you end up getting it eventually all right that goal setting works you right below can help you figure out what you want how to make it happen and otherwise two other videos for you right there


you know, we were, this staff was in one classroom using three computers for three months before we went into the temporary facility, the fire station where we worked for, you know, for four years. So I just want to say a big thank you to the community, to the folks who had the four or five and said, let's have a municipal building that will function in emergency. And I think we're all reaping the dividends in that decision and I want to thank everybody for supporting this facility. Here, here. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Second item agenda is nominating Bill Sheplick to be our health officer. Do I have a motion? I move to nominate Bill Sheplick. Do we need to have his salary? Not necessarily, that's between us. Okay, I've moved to nominate Bill Sheplick as town health officer for the foreseeable future. Not good. Maybe three years later. Three years, yes, this thing, because I just got appointed three years and I'm happy to get that right over the job. And I don't worry about Mr. Sheplick, yeah. Finally, I would suggest that maybe after the motion is approved, if they're going to approve it, you resign, I think, if you're going to have to send the nomination to the health department. Right. When I'm appointed, then you can resign. At least this way, there's two official people who are still appointed as my statute. Tom is our deputy health officer. So let's see how the vote goes. Did I get a second? Okay. Motion has been moved and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No abstentions. Congratulations, Bill. And thank you. Well, thank you, thank you. Hereby, resign from the position and let the health department know at the state level and we'll move forward with those nominations. Okay, thank you. Did you actually nominate Tom, the deputy? Yes, that's all set. He is already officially my deputy, now yours. A risk test. Okay, I think we're set with that. Flooding updates and unmet and emerging needs. Tom, let's start with you. Nothing, nothing huge. It sounds like the decommitifiers we have are already ready to be distributed and there's a lot more demands for that. I've got staff searching far and wide for what we can do, but I think I've exhausted every place that might rent them within 100 miles. So I told them to start in Plattsburg. Oh, good point. Maybe we can go from there. How many did you get? Just 10, that's all I could get. All right, I've gotten a few private ones just there for my own purposes. We've got two of you running in my house, which I'm willing to share with stuff. We've got a little dryer. And regarding dehumidifiers specifically, we're gonna work to continue to match folks up one by one via that form, the help request or volunteer form. So if you are volunteering, you can say I have residential dehumidifiers to loan and people can say I'm looking for dehumidifiers and we'll try to match those folks up one by one. Okay, yep. Look, how many commercial dehumidifiers? They're what they had. I don't know the official writing. They're the size of a big commercial. Because some of the little residential ones would be not all that effective, the commercial ones are much more effective. I've done for profess to know how long they should be in a house and how long we should go until we shift them around the community. So in the short term, when can I get them out of that truck because we need that truck? Right now. Oh yeah, you're on a puzzle.  Well, that's... So I believe we've got a request for them. People are gonna come pick them up here? We haven't figured out the liver yet. They just, I think that was gonna be part of our volunteer work immediately. But if you just need the truck, we can get them out of the truck. Yeah, there's a need for a truck to get in the truck. All right, so they're here and we gotta figure out how to get them out. You could always put them in my truck and I could do it. I'd be glad. There we go. All right, that's what we have to do. Mark is the humidifier delivery guy. Yeah. Come on. Do you really? Gary, any updates from you? No. Everything went very well yesterday, not minimizing people that are impacted, but we had a few apologies yesterday that they're all minor stuff. People here are smoking cigarettes. There's still detectors going off in places that still have water. And it's kind of like not worrying about it, but worrying that something could happen and people ignore it. So it's a double edged story. But no, the roads are looking good. We assisted getting a person across the Muskie Street Bridge and up here going through the water. But yeah, everything's going really well. No injuries, though. Yeah, no quote. I am not a regular injury. We haven't had any real injuries. We had certainly some very close calls from people that have now changed their opinion about going across flowing water. But at least for now. So no, everything's going very well. Well, good job. Thank you. Good job. Woody? Yeah, so yesterday, late yesterday afternoon, we built a temporary roadway or reinforced the roadway on the Muskie Street to get mainly the North Dot Street residents out. They were anxious and wanted to get to Lauderdale. So we built a temporary passage there. We'll do more permanent work in the future. Did part of that get washed out? I don't know. Like all washed out. It's all washed out on this side? Yeah. Haven't been down there yet. Is it passable yet? It's passable. Yes, yes. So that's passable. And I think, I'm going to guess, the back side of the river is open now. Yeah, the back side of the river, from the bridge all the way to just past Camel's Humphrey, is open, is flooding on the other side of that, and is flooding on the Ducksburg side of the Muskie Street bridge. Oh, OK. Going towards Main Street, that's everything. OK, so this is their only access for what? This is the only access to get from here to Camel's Humphrey. Yeah. So we did that. We started actually sweeping in the downtown because we brought dust would be on the meeting. Yeah, I heard you got the sweepers out this morning. Thank you. So that was one of my questions here. The sweeper is good enough. Or do you do anything beyond sweeping? Well, we scraped last night with the loaders. Two loaders worked to scrape them on off. Some places are still a little too wet to operate. House basements being pumped into the street make it a little too wet. But you don't need fire hoses to muck out the roads any spots. OK. Yeah, we certainly, if we need to, we can get a truck and spray water. A lot of times that creates more of an issue. We're talking high pressure. It's hard to moderate the style of the nozzles that we use. We run the trucks at a certain pressure. So if there's a need, we can. But we also don't have penetrating nozzles. Volunteers have been pressure washing the sidewalks on Randall Street, but just in certain spots. And it's really slippery. Animals were found just like 15 minutes ago. So if we can get somebody to address that, I don't know. Yeah, it means to meet it under eye a little more. We can sweep the sidewalk. OK. Yeah. It does pressure wash pretty easily. And it just goes down with all that everybody else is just entering their basements. And then I'll go down the storm drains. Everything's washing. Chris, you had something there? Yeah, based on his forecast for the next conceivable days, make Mother Nature probably assist in putting it on. Yeah, but I mean, I didn't know where the ring is going to push that silt off. No, I'm saying because I can't do down here with some dust after the end. Yeah, knock down the dust. But we've got like an inch of silt on the sidewalk, which means we're going to stay home and find another home. Yeah, so roadways we're doing all right. Started sweeping some temporary repairs, great hill, other places. Got two crews, one from Brodingen Department of Public Works, pumping out basements right now. We've got another group from the town of Stone pumping out basements right now. They both started early this morning. We've had to shut off the water to several residents as their basements have flooded and the water receives broken pipes in the basement.  It was worked late into the night last night. Going to the wastewater pump station, we're still at very, very, very high levels. We've got a massive pump from Burlington DPW working assisted by the town of Stone down there as well. We're holding steady. It appears that most of the work, kind of echoing what Bill said, most of the work that we did after the storm, I mean, the flood proofing of the main street and the pump station, all the dry pits and municipal pumps, everything worked. It's still working. They closed the flood doors. There was very little water inside the pump station. The pumps kept operating throughout the whole thing. The problem with the pumps kept operating is there was no room in the little building still over. Yeah, so they overflowed? No, we're close. We're close. And you're still right there? Of course, we're holding right there. Burlington was offered up another huge pump, but they may have now a very rough share of the sewer line under what we see river that they may in. So we think we just actually headed to Ben and Jerry as they have a large diameter pump that we can borrow with them. So hopefully it won't make ground, at least water-wise. And I think that's the pumps, and then I'll show you. Well, and just real quick, I had Bill and I traded some text this morning. He doesn't have any concerns about the safety of bridges. Yeah, I looked under the Armory, I'm not a bridge expert, I'll throw that out there before I tell you. I looked under the Armory Drive Bridge and the twin bridges down here, I don't see any need for concern. And I believe Alec looked under the Armory or half of the Drive Bridge, so. And how about the one up on Stowe Street? That older bridge still is about to be replaced. You wouldn't want to look under it in the times of bad night. Exactly. I just wanted to know if it's safe to bribe all the time. Yes, that's insane. It's not safe to bribe all the time. It's a great place to get water. But the water, they did not hit that, yeah. I was charging them with the old head of the wood there. Yeah, it was really an ocean. Yeah, fingers crossed that one's slanted for 20.5, I think. Yeah, so. All right, the worst than it was. Alyssa. Do we have any more road closures in town right now? No. The road close sign is up at the ice to the ground, but you can drive around it. The road is open? Yep, everything's open. Ever, it will just be straight again. And it looked like, to me, the ice center didn't get hit. I don't know if anybody has... Not that that matters, but it looked like you just got close. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's good. And then across the river in Ducksbury, the road between the Lewinsky River Bridge and Ducksbury is still closed. It was last I knew when I... Early this morning, I could hear the loader and grader working over there. So, and actually the material that we used to open up this side of the Lewinsky Street that was provided by Ducksbury, they're needing to get there in the wild, so. Yeah, and just a quick note, it's more of an EFOT thing that we all plan for the same team. The push for the EFOT employees to get them all cross-trained in water and soar. And this is a great example because if you've only got two guys at the SOAR plan, they've got to be there 24-7 or an event like this. They've got to sleep. So having the water guys also getting those licenses and experiences is really helpful because water is far less impacted.  Yeah, I spoke to somebody, everyone, and just he made an call to me about the water level of my place because it's been somewhat of a glee just what happens down here from that end. Yeah. And one of the big concerns that I guess was being discussed in the Lewinsky management that there was no reaction from where it is that controls the dams, the green local dams, there was no mitigation efforts prior to this program. There was. Our dam was closed. Oh, I was told by this person that basically you haven't learned a thing from the last, but I believe that, you know. Our dam was closed. I don't know exactly when. It might have been when it hits 417. Yeah, I forget if that was Monday night. Or Tuesday. Well, Lord, I think it was there. I think what he said is like, should they have dropped the water table? No, in advance. Especially if it's prior to that. That's why the right field here. That's the problem. And he said that that was a huge concern that nothing was done prior to the storm. So the last time that's what I thought they would learn. So it took some time to get through to people understandably yesterday, but I talked to the dam safety engineers and they've got a protocol for lowering Wrightsville and the Waterbury Reservoir and others. But it also is dependent on the Winooski. So with the Winooski so high, I think that impacted their ability to lower things. So they also said that they thought. Now it appears both reservoirs will be fine. And I'm sure over time, they're going to draw them down once the Winooski gets lower. But they. They gave me a lot of reassurance yesterday that they haven't been asleep with the switch at all. It's just a challenging time. OK, any further updates from the town? But how are we on Winooski's screen down by the end? Yes. Is there damage? Yes. Yes. Yeah, what's the prognosis? There's several five, six feet deep for us in there. Much of the pavement has been lifted. Storm grade seems intact. So it's a rebuilding of the road actually seems a little worse than when it was Irene. I'm not sure if that vehicle that was there has kind of redirected the flow of water there. There's a big. Yeah, I think what happened was that because that vehicle was up in the rocks that created that. Yeah, a little undercut. Yeah. And now the vehicle's out in the softball field. So, yes, a little bit of. OK, yeah. Probably I know Tom has discussed the potential. If we do rebuild a potential cure, you know, by doing like almost like it being like a sluice way. Yeah, I think that's a really good suggestion. But not my idea that it feels idea. Oh, OK, I heard it from you, though. Yeah, I heard it from him. Don't one other piece I just want to add. I really want to thank Lisa at the roundabout who in a lot of ways served as public information officer, but it was frustrating that to me that, you know, you call the news, you call the radio, you get in contact with Lisa. But the biggest lesson learned that doesn't take a year to implement, I just want to do now is I want to start a town's Facebook page and just do it. It would have been extraordinarily helpful to last few days for us to post our own updates about what roads or blows would have been shared throughout the. Throughout the web. So I just want to get that started. I don't think it's going to take forever to do it. Sure, it's a little more creating government page and the personal, but with the support for mention, I just want to do it. I make a motion to approve the one of very selectable Facebook. Facebook, it's a sacrum. OK, we have a motion to a motion to create a town Facebook page. It's been seconded any further discussion hearing none. All members say aye. Any post any abstentions? You have permission to create a town Facebook page. All right, that's it from the town. One other one other quick thing are. Our middle school rec program is at Brookside for today. We're not sure for how long and maybe they'll be there for the duration of the summer. So that's the one that used to be at the Methodist used to be at the Wesley Church Wesley Church. So thanks to the school and thanks to the folks there. I also just want to know that I'm not sure we're going to use it, but Monica Callan at the Grange has offered us something like an 80 percent discount if we want to use her space. So that's also a great offer that we might take her up on. So just want to thank Monica. Very good. You're here. OK, Lisa has a hand up and then one last thing. Last thing that a request about lights on Randall Street in particular, I'm assuming that will no longer be a need, but just to raise it. And then also it doesn't need to be right now. But as a select board member, I want to know who on earth I was supposed to call because I literally was like, it's 1030. In terms of it means like that come up. I don't know who to direct them to. And again, I think it's probably at this point since you all are pumping out, but just wanted to raise lights as a potential and assume that's not moving forward. And then after this, just make sure the street lights. I think the street lights were not bright enough. So it was a question about like Randall. Not bright enough all the way down Main Street. Sorry, I live on Main Street, too, so. But then we'll do work outside. Yeah, we want to keep that.  And then we're talking about the newer lights, the LED lights. There's my understanding is there's switches in them. It's not a big amount of power. And they said that the ones that are dimmer, it's naturally bright. Bright enough. Preston's been made several months ago. The one DMP's lights on Randall Street. No, the ones in South Main. But along with other lighting issues have been in the work since COVID. But what's your question? Did the lights go out at some point in the night? Were they just? The question was, do we anticipate it's a union street needing rental lights as a useful service? The municipality potentially could help provide to that question. And then if that type of request emerged in the future, I just wanted to know the appropriate ways to route. So the first thing that comes to mind for me is does the town have a light tower? No, the times we've needed to utilize it in the last five or six years, four or one for the day at McDonald. Yeah. That's what you're noisy. Yes. Yeah, right. Because you're old January. It runs on a generator. Yes. He's a generator. So it's a little noisy. Yeah. And that much of a need for it, I wonder. Do we have to work 24-7 months? No, I think probably not. I think it's helpful. Like I said, just wanted to raise up on things that happen. OK. Have residents requested that? Well, apparently, one day. Yes, that's what I think. OK. Yeah. It seems like among all requests that that maybe one that we might not be able to share. Part of it. Sorry. I think Lisa. Lisa. It's a good way to start. I'll be quick. I think the idea of a Facebook page is a good idea. That would have been helpful to be able to share that. It's an easy way. I can attest that there's a lot of people in the community that use it. Some municipalities use Twitter. And I don't see I don't do Twitter with the roundabout. I don't feel like a lot of our readers are on Twitter. So I just I don't have that much bandwidth. One thing I'd like to mention, though, for the people who are not on Facebook to try to reach them. And I can send you a few of these time, too. Duxbury started a thing about a year ago where they just have a mass email that goes out, sort of like the way that the school does it. You know, as a parent in school, you are on a swift reach email server kind of thing. And they can send out emails when schools are closed or there's an announcement or whatever. And they've started building a list like that in Duxbury. And I think they've got a few hundred people on it. Maybe they might be up to about 300 now. They don't aim to get everyone. But I think they definitely try to reach people who aren't more on social media and stuff. So something like that is a pretty easy thing to do, to just do like a free MailChimp account. And you can send out the same message that you've got on Facebook. Facebook could do more often, I suppose. But you might get some concern from especially older residents who aren't on Facebook. They might say, you know, what about me? I don't want to get left behind. And that might be a way to kind of have those things work together so you kind of reach as many people as possible. So just a suggestion. It's a great suggestion between what was created yesterday and a few hundred people already go sign up plus our MailChimp. We could figure out something, I think. Yeah. Have a subscribe, just... Yeah, we may want to create a new e-mail address for it. It's really easy, yeah. I mean, I'd be happy to show you a couple of the Duck Story emails. I use MailChimp for what I do. And I only recently had to start paying for it and it was when I exceeded 2,000 people. So there's a lot of wiggle room before you get there that it's just a free account and you could do a lot with it. So... We do have a master on this for Main Street and it's been drawn to that and covers from Crossroads to the I Center, basically e-mail addresses for businesses and homeowners who chose to... All right, that'll be good. The Firebird uses a wiggle room for all of our people and you can moderate what access people have and whether it's just read or whether they can respond but which works great for us. Okay. And right now on the Resource Doc folks can already subscribe to Mark Emilio and revitalize and moderate business updates. There's a subscribe to that and can subscribe to get all of the select word agendas automatically, which Karen already sends out just so you will get an email each time an agenda is posted but also sounds like more to come as well. All right, unless there's other updates from the town let's move on to volunteer planning and effort. Starting with short term volunteer needs. I guess Roger, I'm thinking maybe we defer back to you the general statement I would say just so that the community knows and because it's incredible to see so we talked about yesterday with up from the Schlegel and others that we launched this form. We have 420 respondents to that already. That's both needs and folks offering help but just to say like what an incredible outpouring of community members both within and beyond Pottery. So I would just say like the bottom line is the bulk of this agenda item is us bringing out what next steps are in terms of safely and effectively using that. What he already seems for example, anyone who had a need for pumping that list went to Woody this morning for folks who are coming into help. There's been a couple of small one off requests for things that we've been able to work on but we need to kind of figure out a sustainable system for managing and engaging with this incredibly long list. For now, we did just send a note last night that basically said thanks for signing up. We have your contact info. We will be in touch when we have needs that hang tight for now. So it's again to say this kind of conversation is about what those next steps look like. I guess Roger I also want to offer you gave some kind of three steps hierarchy that maybe makes sense to review now but also want to use the expertise of Gary and others in terms of what we feel like is the right approach for doing this. Well, I just went up and down Randall Street this morning finding out where people were at and Scott Mackie came up with a three-step assessment of readiness and the first stage is we still have a couple of basements that have not been pumped out at all. People are away rental properties or whatever. So there are others on the street that pumped out theirs and they're now helping some of the other people but that would be first stage. Second stage is you pumped out but then there's a certain amount of materials that were left in the basement that need to get taken out of there with ideally with some volunteer help. And part of that was dependent on having a dumpster to deposit these materials in. I just talked to Bob Butler and he said that the arrival of the Castella dumpsters is imminent. He's gonna put two on Randall Street and Bob if you're on the, he said he was gonna join by a Zoom maybe he's got further updates on where the others are gonna go and where they're gonna get there. Bob, are you there? And maybe not yet. Sam. Okay. Well, we know that maybe even as of now there are two dumpsters on Randall Street that can be used for putting whatever into any of our donations. On a Randall Street guy. Mind people not to forget about like South Main Street where not many houses were. Right. In Batchel and Batchel there and Honeydew place. Brutal. So they're lower on Unistrict. Yeah. Should we be communicating with that? Like are you? I would just say all of those two of the like I said 24 addresses were pumping that one to Woody that included not only Randall but Batchel or South Main Street, Huntington Union. So at least some of those needs are being communicated to us and at least for pumping have gone out. I don't know on dumpsters.  Who should lead Bob? Bob. I think Bob's our dumpster guy. Okay. He knows dumpsters. He's been in touch with Kisela. Okay. Just in the area. Yeah. Like that's what you wanted. Yeah. I'll reach out to Bob and talk about those specific areas. Yeah. Probably in a day or two. Just. When he's done some of the basic work in the roads, what do you have a dump truck available? You'd hate to have to transfer the material twice but that's always an option. And through to specifically for questions. So that's one to just make sure Bob knows. And then the third stage is people that have everything cleared out but still have some mud remaining where the basement and will be ready for the mud sucker if and when it's available. And I've got a couple of priority houses on Randall Street that are ready to go. So I don't know how would he's prioritizing that but maybe Gary, do you have an idea? No, I don't have an idea.  People saying, hey, we're told that the fire department is coming around pumping out basements. Our pumps are not designed for that. Right. So we're not. No, the fire department is not pumping out but we do have, as I understand, two crews that are doing that.  There's a guy from Reno and Garlic that has a big commercial irrigation pump that does the job pretty quickly. And I think the less people are done, more of everything pumped out today is unexpected. My son-in-law went and bought two pumps and he was on Randall Street. Yeah, he was helping us with water last night. Same stuff. It would also be great to follow up just to make sure we're covering Root 2 and Union and others as well back in the day. This is Kyle with the L.M. Jacob, thanks so much for talking to us. I got to go. How are we going to deal with hazardous materials? Because probably in some of the basements there are hazardous materials mixed in with their household stuff. I don't know if, again, this would be interesting to know if we can put hazardous materials into the dumpsters. I don't know if we need to have hazardous materials. I would say no. Right. If we can get a separate dumpster in located someplace besides Randall Street or the other streets and let people know that there is a hazardous materials dumpster that they can bring stuff to, and maybe our local recycling hazmat trash guy will be in person to talk to, he might be able to. John Malt, John Malt. It's not just items, though. There's a report of oil on the ground on Union Street. Yeah, I want you to be about that. Yeah. But other materials, if you don't provide people with the option, it will go into dumpsters. Right. OK. I can't follow up. Oh, sorry. Can we get an update on the website about that? I don't think it's right. It's not right. It's not right. I'm sorry. I remember the last time that everyone's facing, there was a tower of paint that we had to use that paint. Free hand bottles and all the hazardous chemicals coming out of the basin. I'm so sorry. So everyone was aware that there was a dedicated space for that last week. But I guess, for the time being, do not put any hazardous materials like paint in the dumpster. That's just science. And that's the science. Yeah. OK. And so if the dumpsters will be in place today, do we think it's time to start mobilizing the volunteers? John, well, I guess that's the question. There's two kind of short-term and long-term. So again, we've identified we have, we're going to say 400, because I'm now up to 435 responses while we've been talking, volunteers, again, some from Waterbury, some from surrounding and even distinct communities. The question is next steps in terms of triage and management. So yes, we can send an email to folks. The question then becomes, where are they needing? How are they being directed, prioritized, and shuffled out just being really candid? I'm going to have to go back to work at some points. But that is not a full-time position I can be doing. So just to say long-term, I think there's a question around if the select board is comfortable needing to create a volunteer subcommittee. This has offered to serve on it. But if folks are comfortable, some of those 400 volunteers have offered to help with logistics. So I would say the first step would be recruiting two to three to help with the ongoing volunteer management task, which is not insignificant. But then knowing that we'll need to have a system for where folks are meeting again, we can send an email after this meeting saying, please arrive at location X at time Y. But then we need to have a protocol for when they arrive, how they're going to dispatch and things like that. Michael, if we don't have a sufficient number of volunteers, as I know there's that state website from on.gov slash volunteers, how do we tap into that work? I think we have more than we need to do. I think we have 400 volunteers. Well, I know, but it's going to start waning at some point when people have to go back to work. And you know. I would say for the imminent future, we have 100 folks to start with. And I want to focus on managing them. And then I think that's an important question for a future meeting. So I think what are your name again, once again. Oh, yeah. OK, there we go. Yeah, I would say I don't think it's a lack of volunteers that we have. My big concern is if you put out the fall, they come volunteer to help. You are going to get 100 people. And I think we want to be very cautious about how many people are invited to help Rodriguez step up to be them if you're prepared to do so. You're not prepared to be 400 people this afternoon. Yeah. Yeah, my take on this would be that we should create a management structure, maybe directly after this meeting. Liz, if you'd be willing to participate in that, I'll participate. Ariel, if you'd be willing to join anybody else in this room and I guess online, but probably don't need more than five people to figure out how to organize this. And then we'll have a statement about how many people we need today and then where they're on them along. We'll see and work it out, I guess, should we now, the other we had on there was just safety and protocol in terms of recognizing Jerry is sitting here, do we have? Candidly, we're walking that as has been raised before. We're lining between what we as a municipality are encouraging and just making sure we're being reasonable and appropriate and safe with volunteers and putting them in situations. We feel comfortable with as a facilitator. So in terms of, I don't want to say lines in the sand, but types of things that we need to be aware. Again, maybe that's part of this follow up. The biggest issue right now is gonna be people getting hurt, cuts, mainly and the fact that the water is dirty. And people need to make sure that they get cleaned up as soon as they can. Because that stuff will absorb into the skin and you're gonna get sick. But minor injuries is what we saw after I read and just people cleaning out and getting cuts and stuff like that. And not overdoing it. It's, you know, today's weather, temperature seems to be very nice compared to what it was after I read and it was extremely hot and muggy. So not overdoing it, moderation. The ambulance does have two crews running. So it doesn't mean that they don't have two calls at the same time, but at least right now they're running two crews on duty. So. I don't know if that's part of it. Yeah. For those who are going to coordinate, I think it would be wise if at all possible to create a simple form that people sign that they're going to have to town and library. You know, VLCT is the town's insurer. There's limited coverage of volunteers and it's really to protect the town's liability more than anything. It's not going to be his workers compensation or things like that for the volunteers, but it would be helpful if you had all this and that if necessary, you can produce that for passive and it could help just alleviate other legal issues that you don't want to do. Good point. Thanks. Can we generate a waiver? Yeah, we've got that. Yeah. But if we're done with the safety and protocols, long-term volunteer management before nation, I guess we can cover that in our meeting afterwards. Don't have to take everybody's time on that right now, but we know it was. Okay, Al. Yeah, the town owns the Rusty Park of Park now. And if you can just step back a second and think and Irene, the park got flooded with three feet of water, so it was not usable for anything. But right now, the park, basically the bandstand and the Zebo are high and dry. The canopy over the bandstand area is a place that could be set up for distribution or cooking food and whatnot. There's water there from the tap from the village and there's also restrooms that are there. There's a hose there so people can come over and wash up. There's electrical outlets there so people can connect to the outlets to charge their cell phones and et cetera. So you've got an asset that was not really usable right after Irene that you do have right now that as long as that can be opened up and manned by volunteers to make sure it doesn't get misused, that facility can be, it's within walking distance of your downtown area for anybody who needs help, people who need to wash off, for example, as a hose there, people can just rinse themselves off for their clothes or boots or whatever down there. But just think about the fact that you've got an asset that's right there that can be used for something other than concerts in the park and other activities. Okay, thanks Al. Is the public restroom open now? No, the restrooms are only opened during events and that's just so that there's a responsible person looking over the restrooms to make sure it doesn't get trashed. But this is an event and if you've got some responsible people who volunteered to basically look over the facility as well, it's open, we can treat it just like an event. And yes, the rotary stocks the restrooms, we make sure the restrooms are clean for the events that we're planning to do that. She'll be in touch with you about the timing on this. Thanks. All right, any other hands up? I could just a quick thing about restrooms. What are we doing for volunteers downtown? We're not saying we've got six volunteers for our house. We're not using our restroom. I'll be setting up four less downtown. Is that been addressed? We have not addressed that guy. We did bring in restrooms. I was not part of it. For Irene, when I was there, forwarded that to release one on Randall Street and stayed there for a long time. It did. It was a great opportunity, if I'm not mistaken. Sure, but- Thank you for being on like the back of the bank for a total day of parking lot meetings that will be our event. Well, we put it on 51-cell and we screened the park. Oh yeah. Yeah, that'll be it. In fact, there was one there and fairly recently. I'd like to still be one there. That's the place for you to put it on. Right, okay. Yeah, let's try to put it on the 51-cell main and any other suggestions in terms of location? So the site of the owners of the Sider Health Restaurant out on our two have offered their space as a staging area for volunteers to meet. So we can have them if we want to put one there. But all those houses on your two, which all need pumping, all need the same set of services. Yeah, okay. So Sider Health, Kara? Yeah, I was just gonna say in the interim, Sonya, Karen, FPGV, so I'm just supposed to know who is working for and that folks can use the back of that. That's a lot of that. It's open so that's a good word. We're just right next to the 51-cell main. Next house down. Well, Brad, well, that's helpful. Well, that was John Malter. Boba, Sean and True Value will take paint and stain. There's a national recycling program. You need a brand-new dollar, Boba, Sean? We can organize and bring it down there. Anything else, hazardous, John is already working on. Okay. Place to get rid of that, the normal transfer stations under water. Which is a little bit of water. Robbie's? I know the one in Richard was under water. So if we'll get back to me pretty quick, I think. Okay. But he said get it all in one spot and we'll go from there. All right. So people put it out in front of their house for the time being. Yeah. So we can designate an area. All right. Now it's the public session. Anyone that has something to spot on the agenda, can you hear me about now? Chris? Future impacts, future storms, based on continually growing in pervious areas. My neighbors got their yard clean for nothing. The amount of trash that's running down the river during these storms is a great concern to me. Whether or not zoning can somehow regulate the amount of stuff that's put in floodplain areas. Future floodplain areas, the floodplain areas that are already built in now, kind of difficult to deal with that and regulate it. But I can tell you, videos that I saw yesterday were quite disturbing. But it's huge campers and stuff under the bridges. Not in this town, but in different towns and all that stuff end up in the big toilet called Lake Champlain. That's growing worse and worse year after year from contamination. Just a couple of concerns. Future problems. Every time, and I was telling Bill earlier, we were talking about it. It may not sound like much to you guys, but I'm completely aware of it because of my business. The amount of forest that I'm cutting down daily to put in in previous areas, releasing those forests with root costs and chimneys and it's just all contributing to the growing catastrophe just kind of move on more water volumes to come into the areas like this year. Next summer. Yeah, you can, you know, water very dodgeable this time. I know. I mean, not completely, but, you know, I guess my bigger concern is to, again, not if it happens again, but when it happens. It's a difficult topic to deal with. How do you stop construction? How do you stop development? How do you mitigate these problems for the future? That's something to think about. Well, we will have new zoning regs for the phase one area, which is downtown area by the 1st of March, as I understand it. And we'll be moving on to the rest of town. And something that you can sort of... There are, on the issue of trash, there are a number of towns where we can look at them for models if it's like what was in truth that have various ordinances riveted to generally public health and safety that involve trash and above and beyond trash, oftentimes things like junk vehicles. It's oftentimes an easier thing to regulate in the city, quite frankly, than a town with a lot of rural areas. But it's something that the SWEBRA could take up. Right. Liz. Liz. Thank you. Chris, I want to respond to just, I was thinking about it too. One of the things that the governor said in his first press conference was that they had known this was coming for a couple of days, right? I assume because of the weather modeling with deep thunder and the IBM program that we signed on to after I read, but we didn't know. And that is a gap. And it is gonna need to be raised in place with the administration in that we couldn't put out a call for volunteers or people to clean up their backyards, right? I know, you know, I have a lot of injuries and stuff. Like I've never been able to clean up my backyard if you haven't been here, and I haven't been carried all the way through, right? All the stuff that would have gone. And that is the kind of pre-work that we're gonna have to get used to it. And we do need the state to notify us. If they see something coming, you know, they have a couple of days we can. And I do, because that is the kind of thing people absolutely don't want, right? Can I make one other point? Sure. So I'll give you a little story on what happened to me here recently at the field shop, I wasn't aware of it. A couple of winter ago during the pandemic, I had some eroded into one of my hayfields. I took a machine on the other side of the road, on the other side of the road, on my property. And removed a corner of the field that was next to the brook. That was helping the water. It wasn't there originally. It used to be several feet away, but over time had built towards, anyway. So when he turned me into the state, when the guys from the agency and after reshorts had showed up and wanted to know why I did that, I brought him over and showed him the reason why. And he said to me, why don't you just get a permit, Chris? I said, I didn't get into the brook. He said, well, you filled in a floodplain. I said, I didn't fill in a floodplain. The material was already there. If you don't fill in a floodplain with material that's already there, I just took it in one spot, put it in another spot. He said, well, you covered up a wetland. I said, it was all Japanese, not we. I said, if we increase our kit, the Japanese, not we completely destroys wetlands. His next thing was, well, you're supposed to let those rivers run natural. Well, again, I've got photos on my phone right now from yesterday that people sent me where their complete driveways were just destroyed. Hundreds of cubic yards of material of man-made and pervious area gets put into the brooks. There's nothing natural about that, you know? And that sills in all of these deep holes in the brooks and streams. That's why we don't have any fish anymore. And it's a maintenance of people's roads. There's a huge issue. How do you address that? In the two developments that I created, I had covenants in there that specifically address those issues. I had spoken to the zoning and planning commission years ago about some of these subdivisions being required to have covenants more road maintenance to reduce the amount of erosion, reduce the amount of storm damage, and didn't go anywhere. But it's just another contributing factor to, again, the problems that were being faced when these storms come through. Yeah, good point. Thank you. Anybody else? Can I ask a question from the public? Please do. There's an ask about cleaning supplies. And I think we talked about it yesterday that there was a lot of donations of those things. But I don't know if we ever revisited that conversation whether it's a part of the volunteer organization. Yeah. Okay. And Tom, you were gonna talk about getting bleach kits and that sort of thing? Yeah. Oh, okay. So coming out soon. So yeah, we'll have the information on this up on the website in a few hours. Okay. All right. Determine the next meeting date and ongoing meeting schedule. Alyssa, you mentioned that you may have work obligations coming up. Once things start coming up. As many of us do sometimes. Yeah. Continue to work for a living. But I guess I would just say, I think that's actually the least important. My question is do we still see value in a daily stand-up meeting at 9 a.m. or another time through the end of this week or otherwise? And how far are we scheduling out? I also wanted to say the select board was going to have a vicious dog herring if anyone recall at 7 p.m. And that is not happening tonight. But tomorrow. Sorry, tomorrow. Yeah, certainly. Not by day some person, but just saying out loud that that is canceled. Our next regular rescheduled select board meeting is Monday, the 17th is the correct date. At, was 6 p.m. in early ones. We are maintaining that. But do we see value to a daily meeting? I guess I would say, regardless of my own personal sentence, I think I can make it. Do we think through this week that is useful for the next two days to have an 8 or 9 a.m. meeting? I suggest that we'll learn a lot from the cleanup today and the volunteers. And then maybe one more daily meeting to parse through that could be useful. Tomorrow. Yeah. I wonder if we could do it at noon time as close to 9 a.m. Because I think we may have volunteers to deal with in the morning. And I also have to get back to work thing. And so if it works for everybody else, I would suggest that we meet at noon tomorrow and then determine any further needs before the next meeting. My only question is, do we need to meet prior to volunteers? Or maybe we can, maybe that doesn't need to be a select board meeting. Okay. I'm just saying some folks may need to talk to me. Yeah, like volunteer coordinators can be better. Yeah. So select board special slash emergency meeting tomorrow at noon, regular meeting Monday and we'll assess tomorrow. Yeah. If we need to, we could meet again on Friday, but I'm feeling that we may be a lot further along by this time tomorrow. And we may not have to meet on Saturday.  It's still scheduled. I'm going to talk to Skip about that momentarily. Okay. Yeah. All right. There's a hand. Oh, Lisa. Lisa. I'm sorry. I didn't jump in fast enough. I've got one question from a reader that I didn't know the answer to because I haven't been down there with the road closed. Maybe Woody knows this. A question was about the condition of the dog park. Not so much whether there's mud in it, but did it get washed? Did it get washed away? I guess was the question that I had. And I said, I don't know. I'll see if I can find out. Is there anyone but now there? I would suggest if you have contact for anybody at WADA, the Waterbury Area Trails Alliance, they were down there because their trailer got washed up and so they had to get that and check the trail so they would have that information because they were down there most likely. So it could be good contact. Okay. I do have a contact for them. That's a good suggestion. Thank you. And I had one other thing to just share wearing my green up hat and my past memories of this from Irene were not anywhere near this stage, I think, but hearing that volunteer list is pretty encouraging. I remember all the hundreds of volunteers that we had over months, but one of the things that comes up after the people in the homes are helped is the garbage cleanup. We had, we did green up for about four or five months. I mean, McKee will remember all the volunteers that came and we found trash and there were, we had one tire cleanup where we cleaned up about 2,000 tires over on route two, which is when Chris Vanz's remark about material floating down the river, we had junkyards just get inundated and their stuff got moved 10th of a mile down and we had dozens of volunteers picking up hundreds and hundreds of tires. I haven't done anything yet to go out to look and see what, until the water's down to see how much garbage is out there. But after Irene, we worked with property owners all along route two was probably the worst. We had dumpsters and forest field. We had green mountain power owns that whole area over by the footbridge. I don't know if the footbridge survived or not, but there were lots of propane tanks and all of that sort of material. But that was definitely like down the road that was the next spring after Irene was in August. This was like the following spring where we did probably from April till July, we did that sort of cleanup. So it'd be interesting to see just what the, to sort of take stock of what that looks like, but that's another opportunity for volunteers to get out there to help at that phase of the game. And Roger, as far as a hazardous materials container, when we do green up, we make sure that we put that container in the inside the highway garage for a reason. Long ago when I started doing green up, we would leave the dumpster out at Hope Davy Park and it would be a magnet overnight to attract an amazing amount of junk from people. And so you have to be careful to put that out. And it may be good to have a container that people can bring things to that's in a secure place that could get closed in at night. So you're not coming in the next morning and finding televisions and all sorts of crazy stuff that you're then gonna have to find a home for. So you could end up being like this magnet. So anyhow, that's all for me, I suppose. Thank you. Thanks for your experience on that. Yeah, Bill. Roger, does the border staff, do you have an estimate about how many people have more than basic flooding? I mean, do we have a handful or do we have plenty? Does anybody know how much first floor flooding happened? Sounds like from what I've gathered, not too many. Really just negative bottom of Randall, but I haven't heard anything. Yeah, Elm Street, Elm Street, there are one or two houses on Elm Street. I heard down at the bottom of Main Street and Union. Maybe a couple of new houses on Otterbury. Okay, so it sounds like just. Yeah, it sounds like, you know, maybe 10. Yeah.   So I just wanted to make sure that people weren't maybe being too aggressive or trying to restore their homes. So if it's a dozen or 10 or whatever, it's a lot better than, you know. Alyssa. One other best practice thing that folks told me, obviously I was not here firing, but also just to say to everyone to write down what you are doing and why and taking pictures. I last night did a like brain dump note of just like what happened Monday and Tuesday and had already forgotten things. And I'm just a human existing in the world, not managing my own property. So just to anyone who may be listening, just to note if you haven't already to write down what happened, what you did, and remember to take pictures for when you're trying to piece this back together weeks from now. Yeah, we, I don't know if all of us received it, but Keith Cover of Central Vermont Regional Planning sent out a message about FEMA. And as Alyssa was just saying, suggestions, take pictures, document everything, keep all your seats because FEMA will be showing up. And I don't know if you have any further information about FEMA, Tom? Not right now. I'm gonna go back. I thought you were gonna get a couple things. Just from last time, just remembering and as we will put this in the document, that is on the website remembering that FEMA inspectors are often training FEMA. They're not trained in the region or they won't have necessarily been here during the year or whatever. Remember, for folks who come in from the country, this is just their per diem job, right? The house inspectors, they are following a checklist that has nothing to do with kind of what actually happened here. So there is a certain amount of, that's why the documentation is so important. So, and all the congressional staff yesterday while the field people were trained on interacting with FEMA and how they can support people with FEMA. So, I think we said the other day, like first is mucking out, then is FEMA, right? There are two completely different sets of tasks and we are gonna be able to have volunteers that help people deal with FEMA, deal with the organization, deal with the paperwork. But don't expect like the super helpful stuff from the FEMA people they are not. They're not we need, they're just not like. They come in, they have a task.  But my experience with them was excellent class during Ireen, they came in, they had those electronic things to measure dimensions in every room. They're in and out of there in less than an hour. It was very impressive, high class. So, Chris Neville, who was, I don't know if he's still in the meeting, but who did chat, he let us know that no one showed up for the shelter last night, so they're not gonna have the shelter of Brookside Open tonight. Okay, Brookside is not closed. Childcare is available today, nine to three, and they'll make a decision about tomorrow and Friday later this afternoon. Good. So it looks like Lisa has that information. Maybe she'll get that out there. And we have Chris and Sarah's contact information, if there are any questions. Okay. So they're doing childcare today, but not so tomorrow. Make a decision later today about tomorrow, yeah. Oh, and we will reopen the shelter if needed. Thank you. No question, I hear. Just to follow up on what Liz said, that request for logistical assistance is one of the needs folks can submit in the form. I know we already have a number of folks requesting that assistance and folks offering to help the emotional support cheerleaders, if nothing else, hopefully we can provide some other trainings on the road. And there is, I know, a FEMA best practices worksheet that will work together and match your resource document as well. All right, Mike, do we have a supply of and 95 masks for volunteers? Yeah, we don't. Okay. No, we don't. Please. Or I saw somebody in the community offer that briefly. That's really critical, because especially now with, you know, with you get water and mold and stuff like that, that's the, you know, when everyone could see you need to wash yourself off, but breathing in mold is going to have very long-term, you know, health effects. Yeah, there may be some masks here in the building left over from COVID that Carla received, the blue medical grade ones, but not in that year. Yeah, those are probably not there for mold. It's probably better than nothing, but, you know. And I'm not even sure how many are here because someone puts something on the list for the volunteer coordinating too, but an FBF post for family needs will be definitely necessary. Any further business? We have a motion to adjourn and then we can start the volunteer meeting. Shall move. Second. All right, moving second. All of our say aye. Aye. We'll see you tomorrow at noon.