What's up? What's up? What's up? We are back. I'm Sean and I'm Kory and this is no labels necessary episode number Six six six six six No labels ever so another six for y'all who are new to us not true to us yet We are the two co-founders of contra brand agency. We got a music marketing agency We have artists grow all that good stuff But here we're just trying to talk music have fun, of course and talk marketing because that's what we love to do So hopefully y'all enjoy in today's episode We're gonna be starting with something a little a little while terms of the topic Okay, in terms of the topic I want I want to come right out the gate with it But then we have some strong strong advice for y'all some real gems for y'all who are working on y'all marketing campaigns But first we got to get to the to the wild stuff Ignore this random clip on the screen that was from our test that we had to do Kevin Hart, you know pretty funny guy. You ain't heard of them, but this is the one that I wanted to go over right here The say cheese post All right, somebody posted the Mac shout out to the Mac just at Aaron Elm says glow Rilla The first female unisex rapper lol her shit be sliding in the whip All right, and of course the question is is this true tis this true and by unisex by the way for y'all who came figure it out He's basically saying yes a female rapper who can be listened to by dudes, right?  What's you gonna do? That is ain't for you anywhere, bro. You ain't about to be over here. This ain't for you, man That's how you're intimidating, bro. You if you own it Or y'all bun and they're like or you bond that's your fire, right? Well, you like Before we even get in the answer it is because that's where it's so true. I remember the summer Not when it came out, but when it blew up cuz it took a year to blow up boot up. Oh, yeah, bro That jung was everywhere everywhere and Me and my god brother. We went to Murrow Beach on A trip a biker week.     Hey, right. These are the vibes. It's like a dog I don't want you around right now Sometimes I should just hit brother. You remember when Meg first started poppin That was hard been a man starting fans of God. I guess it was tough. Yes. It was tough. Yes see and I like I remember because Actually, it was before she blew up. I don't know if you ever saw that clip so back when I was doing a bit your ATL heavy I Posted her freestyle to make freestyles a part of our promo campaign And that came out probably about eight months before she blew up or whatever But the but the shit was so hard, right? It's that one. She's like in a neighborhood or whatever Yeah, it's free-styling, but that John was so hard and people were like, yo, who's this who's this who's this because it was hard right, but I was able to get it under the guise of the brand at that time people weren't associating with just me But you know as you start to play play the music more as she started pop like you said it was it definitely became a thing and I don't think it's ever gotten to that point Where you can play mech and people be comfortable with it to be honest, but it's not the same type of comfort Yeah, people know that she's a big artist, right? Yeah, but it's not the same as bumping This gorilla shit niggas was saying a while Lot of me right now a lot of me right now said those lyrics I never left your lips Oh There isn't a god listening to this podcast right now. They could say that word those words never came out of mouth We want I don't know man. If you do said you lying, bro, and it's okay. It's a safe place, bro I'm not gonna judge. I don't know, bro. I don't I might not I might not asleep that one dog I think a lot to you. I I I definitely unplayed the song. Oh, wait. No, I wasn't thinking what I don't know if I slid that one out dog. That was a little I was thinking my savage. There we go. I was thinking my savage, okay I'm glad you corrected that because I was I was trying not to go too hard on you Just don't it don't relate to me that was like first person you really can't When I got you brother that when I got you and Beyonce got on and she was to when I heard the remix I was like dang bro.  She had this one bar. What did she say?    I was trying to I don't know, bro. That was tough But here's the thing glow really literally the moment I heard FNF I literally said I think I said it's on last podcast like literally I was like, bro, this shit's a hit like I was with my my wife, bro. I was like Five seconds and not five seconds for like 30 seconds in legit though. I was like, bro, this shit's crazy This is a hit. What song is this turn it up?  So that song Yes, and then everything that I've heard there after bruh is is definitely on that tip where For whatever reason it cuts through dudes or are you know, they cool with it in matter of fact? um What's his name? Not shuggy ducky. Damn Shuggy ducky. Oh, it's cool. What is uh, ah Fluencer drake and he did the dance Shiggy, yeah He had a post basically saying that like dudes, bro Like we're the songs that I shouldn't be out here singing FNF like this Like like we're the we're the guy's songs that can make me feel like this. So it's been uh Like a common topic and experience ever since it came out. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's very true and It's interesting though because of one you acknowledge Just saying this this whole conversation acknowledges that women do have it harder when it comes to breaking through at the same level of pop Right. You talk about the levels of pop. You got like a specific culture We know white culture is the predominant culture considered pop culture And then people break into like people get considered all you're selling out Or you now mainstream once you break out of your main culture, right?  Yeah, but still not musically hitting to pop male culture. So it's interesting that That they do have it that hard away because guys don't really experience that side of it. Yeah I think it says a lot too though about the The power of the the female audience right like having like a large women fan base. I think that there There are women rappers that can survive without having a male audience But there I will argue there aren't any male rappers that could survive without having like female audience You know, I'm saying like it doesn't it doesn't hit the same. I don't think you know I think males can survive without a female audience like a large part of my life But that you can't be on that level. No without a female audience because you can be niche. Like I'd argue somebody like Yeah, Cardi is he has a female audience, but it's still more predominantly male. Yeah Like anywhere in that type of niche All right, but again, that's he's still not considered at that higher level of you know pop scale Yeah, you can't be up. You can't be there. Yeah 100 without a female audience, which is crazy Right. It's like so they they have all the power to make anybody go. Yeah Basically so and which sucks about that though Is that's why this is a conversation in the first place, right? You pull this back up I don't agree with that. That's why I said first female unisex rapper because You know, we know that there's already males that go both ways in terms of the fan base So yes, and yes, I don't agree with it either. Yeah, right on either Uh, I'm gonna let you go ahead and give you a you'll take on those. Yeah, I'll agree with I would say with Nicki Minaj, but Nicki Minaj is probably at least I am anti-nicki in that I'm so anti-nicki in that so I want to hear what you guys say I feel like for our age range Nicki Minaj was the first female rapper that made That made guys feel like it was cool to bump female rap Nah That's what I say to that bro. I say nah like what nicky songs are dudes seriously bumping monster That's not a nicky song. You're right. That's bad, but that won a lot of us that won a lot of us over Highly respected like dudes respect her lyricism and know that she's actually a dope artist Well above many of the other female MCs on that commercial scale in this era like she's a true like we know she she writes We know she got the the juice and on monster like like for real I've listened to that thing back so many times not just in the moment But over the years and it's still like crazy, bro.   You got it, right? So that alone Is there right undeniable to me? But if you look at her catalog I was just about to pull it up man. I mean You got that bass Super bass hard Come on hard Is I might say you're not good songs But they're not songs that are culturally accepted from the male side that we can bump this shit because it's so hard It's just not like so So that's the thing that's the thing that I felt like cardi had now to me. Nicki Minaj is better Then cardi b in terms of an artist, right? I don't think cardi b even wants to be as good And she doesn't even have the same inspiration to be truly seen as a rapper artist like nikki does but ironically her first hit Was one of those songs that something that nikki in my opinion never had That male's bumped on a commercial level not just old someone of her b-sides or something That's not as as popping that males fell comfortable bumping and like oh, yeah her street record y'all don't y'all ain't over Am I talking about that? So don't give me your personal life story and what you relate to now You digging through the crates commercial scale success a song that males and females both bumped Bodak yellow was one of those songs. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, what song like that does niggie have Commercial success consider commercial part of what makes it hard That's what makes it hard because I was gonna say maybe roman's revenge. Yep. That's my dear. That wasn't me. I'm an animal And it has to be solo too. That was another thing. Oh, this is her song. He was featured on it. They mean just like just her solo Exactly. All right. That makes even more Raising the bar call. Let me go. Let me go look at this pink print the look I feel like that was something bro. I feel like I'm missing something pills and potions How's it go?  That's crazy, bro. That's wild, bro.  All right that specifically culturally accepted by males and and that was not that was not uh anywhere near uh one of Nicki Minaj is like most successful Okay, so there was I'm talking about that level impact. All right. That's all I'm talking about and in common That's all that's all I'm talking about. So it's just an interesting You know splitting hairs argument when it comes to Nicki Minaj, right? Yeah. Now on the other side though Not nicky to me, but you got Missy Elliott. Okay. Oh, actually, actually, yeah Like what's the argument there? That's something to me to say that you that this would be outdated Like hers never had a one-sided type vibe. It was kind of just like Missy was just Missy Yeah, yeah, like that's simple Uh, who else is there anybody else? I think I saw somebody say some somebody said Did you feel like that about days low?  Yeah, I like at least I think two or three others But try me was yeah try me definitely brought the world together I That specific song now it's very interesting that glow real I does have multiple songs She probably has at least three That can go both ways at this point at least two at least two got uh f and f and tomorrow Yeah Problems at the same song as tomorrow. That's not the same song the problem. I'm bad with song names, man I'm so bad. Yeah, but I'm bro. I'm so bad with song names. It's the Oh 99 problems or whatever problems But the biggest one is me. Uh, that's tomorrow thing. Yeah, that's tomorrow.  She has one more looking good the other day. Just send my nigga five attachments bruh Right. Yeah, I mess with her so bad, but um Yeah, all right, so we got her We got missy Yeah, actually, I'm looking at day's little shit, bro That job also had me you and Hennessy and that she was about but it had a little wind on it So we you know, we're not counting features in right right not counting features And hey there with future and I feel like she had the potential for a lot more of those though That it did go both ways. It's just I don't know to back in her career why things kind of shut out because she didn't Like achieve the trajectory that you thought she would she would be on when she first hit. Yeah Yeah But she definitely has it in her.  Yeah, you know If anything it was like things cooled off and then by the time you dropped again for whatever, you know It's just hard to catch the momentum or maybe you don't have supporter labels or but like Yeah, so it was it's interesting. I've seen that it seemed like that with a lot of girls. I felt like that with dreasy, too um, so I don't you know Females we stand with y'all Pardon me. I also want to argue coil it right, but I don't feel like In the comments go ahead and put your your raffle ballad in my god Bro, because I'm looking at her her shit, bro. She had no more parties.   I think yeah, I think she could sit in there now they No more parties like it's not a lot of them. That's the highest level of you know pop they hit both. Yeah I guess we just got a tbd with her.  They know it. It's all purposeful. We hey, bro We don't need these dudes. We're going straight for the women. They don't want to pay anyway The show's gonna be safer and these was creepy. No. Yeah. Yeah, she don't need us. I feel it But hey, you know But if Wap is something you want to come ever, you know, re-ar you though But what was five, bro, it went ahead for no reason. Hey, no one said it wasn't a hit No one said no hard for what it is. I'm just saying I wasn't bumping that bro But did we say Cardi B enough Yes, we did say Cardi B. Okay. I don't remember. Yeah, okay. Yeah We didn't mention that any of our other stuff to be to be real, but uh, I like it like that went hard That's it. Yeah, I don't believe that's the name of that song either. Like I said, I'm so bad What's Cardi B's fanbase called? I don't know. I don't know either I don't know what you got famous. I'm in it bro. I'm there and that and that is the signal it is time to move You know, so We got some some really really strong advice for y'all. Um or useful advice. I should say Cory I'm gonna let you um give the details but because you were you know talking to Kenny about it But Kenny shout out to Kenny He's one of the marketers in our music marketer program for y'all who do not know We help marketers be like us. Y'all know, we work with really dope people 24k golden The major labels all to all that great stuff and have our billboard number one And we've learned a lot along the way and we are helping people Do exactly what we've did if you want a business as a marketer helping artists blow up We got you, you know, uh, we'll probably probably put the link in the bio if it's not there already or the description um And artists as well and labels were working with them to build their own music marketer Infrastructure if y'all want to work direct with us in that regard And the reason i'm talking about that now is because this question came directly from One of those marketers who's building up his business and getting a lot of campaigns because of the game We're giving them and here's a problem that he encountered. Cory. Let him know. Yeah, man. So the conversation was around Optimization so he was talking about his facebook ad set up and what he was noticing is that I don't know the exact number. So i'm just gonna make him up a little bit, but he was seeing Let's say 1500 clicks and his facebook ad manager And when he would look at his tone then and for those that don't know tone in is a smart link We teach people in the program to use smart links to track your music conversions But he's looking at his his tone then data And he's realizing that the what facebook is saying he's getting in terms of conversion isn't matching up facebook saying 1500 Tone then saying like 800 700 something like that So the advice I gave to him was like, yo, man, you need to optimize your ads based around Which a smart link data is saying because what?  They all have bots to different Degrees, but they all got bots and there's nothing that you can do as a marker or the advertiser to get rid of it Except look at the the places where bots can't go So one of the great things about toned in and feature fm and all those other smart links is that Bots can't interact with that landing page or what's going on that side All they can do is maybe click your facebook ad and they get cut off at that point So i'm telling him rather than going. Hey, I spent $500 and I got 1500 Facebook clicks. Let me optimize based on what that data is saying. I'm like, hey, you should be looking at like I spent $500. I got 800 Toned in conversions or smart link conversions and then continue to optimize your whole process from there because at that point You're at least optimizing around people that took an action and actually made a move rather than Basing your whole campaign your analysis your your new objectives off of what is more than likely going to include bot data If you're looking at the ad platform stuff, right? So because that's what we do like we don't I don't care. I don't give up what facebook says or what tiktok ad manager says. I'm looking at the smart link Oh, we spent 500 we got 700 clicks over here. Who cares that facebook says we got 5,000 or something they lie to me. You know what i'm saying that channel convinced me to spend some more money Or no, they don't know how to get control of their their bot issues.  They can't control Or get together right and you said kenny was specifically doing um Like afro beats for afro beats artist. Yeah, so yeah, he works for a lot of afro beats artist So he's running his ass to you know places like nigeria different parts of south africa west africa and stuff and Those locations are notorious for having a lot of bot traffic, right? Like so um They're just like certain countries that you know for a fact if you hit them you get a lot of bot traffic Any lot a lot of places in africa Brazil, mexico's on there india, you know, say indonesia um a lot of places that Can be high quality markets depending on what your end goal is and what type of music you create But the reality of it is that they all have a lot of bot traffic and us has a lot of bot traffic too I know like for whatever reason like detroit when you target detroit detroit is a hot spot for a lot of bot traffic I don't know why i don't know who in detroit is setting up bot servers, but it's a thing You know that i've seen it before and so Yeah, it's something that i'm telling like yo you're gonna have to be aware of that because The markers that you want to build these artists in are like hotbeds for bot traffic So you especially shouldn't be looking at what facebook and tiktok and right man youtube in some degrees is telling you because Like i said more than likely 40 i don't know i don't know the exact numbers I want to give a stat and you know not having to end it back it up But i mean i would guess probably at least like 20 to 40 percent of the traffic is bot traffic at any given time um On a normal basis and then you hit those places probably creeping closer to like 50 60 percent you know what i'm saying I'm just because of how this stuff works. So it's like yeah, bro. I'm not weird We teach our marketing team Like look at it of course because you have clients that care and want to know when they're excited about it But we as professionals are the ones that's supposed to know like yo that shit Might not even matter because some of that data is probably a lot Let's look at the data points where it can't be manipulated to that degree because like i said bots can't Boss can click to the smart link, but they can't interact with the smart link So, you know, everybody made it to that point doing something at least a real person You can at least trust that data. Yeah, and It's funny. We're just talking about this and we'll we're gonna go deeper into this tiktok specific conversation But you know, i was just reminding you of that time. Well, not that time those times early on tiktok ads We were literally getting Thousands and thousands and thousands of bots when we were running ads It was nothing like we've seen before i'm talking about Well, we'll spend like 20 dollars and see like 10 000 clicks. That's 10 000 clicks.  We're about to run it up But then you look those 10 000 clicks came through but on the uh Smart url literally no click-throughs So like no click-throughs like we've been running long enough. It's like, it's no way our target is that bad Like it's no way it's that bad.  You know tiktok wasn't really given us the help that we needed on what exactly was going on Yeah, I think we started running tiktok ads for a long time because that's right. I think yeah Because that campaign was tudge tudge keaton's campaign And then I don't I think the very next tiktok campaign we ran might have been Nick D's where we use tiktok ads because he was only like our second ever tiktok ad client Yeah, and so and then from him on up Yeah, I don't think we got our trust back with tiktok ads completely into maybe around the nick d time So between that they're probably been about three three four months in between No, that was longer than that, bro. That was well. Yeah cause tudge would have been the fall before And then nick d was the spring of the next year. So yeah, it's probably like six seven months in between Yeah, because you know how we No, we'll test with people that are the client clients and test for ourselves and all that stuff. So yeah, it was it was a good minute and now I would say tiktok ads Yes, we we have a higher trust But at the same time just like, you know, you we started conversation you were talking about facebook ads Right. Is any platform Hey, you still got to be mindful and pay attention to the numbers and see if it's real or not Because not only do you have the hotbeds? Okay, you can fix that ahead of time get your targeting right But then you also have just weird moments in time where for whatever reason whether the ai Somehow finds one of those pockets of bots or maybe I don't know somebody's running some type of Bought campaign or test themselves You never want to just assume That It's all real. You got to pay attention to the data. Yeah, bro. If you don't see the data making real actions Don't trust it. That's how I feel like like a thousand clicks Don't mean anything if I don't see A thousand conversions or I mean, I guess it's not fair. I don't expect that But if I don't see a significant amount of conversions or streams or real People actions coming from the numbers.  You're like, yeah, but like only 30 people converted Like what's up with that?  Like is it that bad? Why do they click it? You know what I'm saying? Like what why are you lying to me right now? and I mean, you know It's interesting because you still have The bots that people run into when it comes to You know doing these campaigns with play listers. They have the bots they run into Or shoot that's usually more intentional for the content and stuff like when you post your own content Yeah, and things but running ads It's crazy and that's the part that's so painful to pay Right pound for pound For bot after bot after bot after bot And that's like the one place that we we feel like we should be able to trust it But yeah, the honest the guy is true is it's not you can't trust that completely either So you always have to pay attention to your data because you might just have this one One off campaign that's completely as bad as what we had which was near 100% bots on a few campaigns It's been a couple years since that now But at the end of the day You just gotta know that this is the game that we're playing and as long as real actions are happening, you know Is it worth it because that's what you can judge we still find effectiveness in ads the difference is Let's just see let's just say you did have bots and it was like 10 bots If you increased your click-through rate That the platform says 10 is that still a good click-through rate? That's how you got to look at it, right? Yeah All right So it's like if it still matches out and the results the the plays the streams the ticket sales all match out to Something that's feasible to you and it's worth it.  You know what I'm saying? Like you go into some jobs, but not expecting but you know being aware that it could happen That's what you wear the hat for That's all you It's gonna happen It's gonna happen on every platform. So there's nothing you can do about it But yeah, you have to look for the silver lining, you know, like I mean going back to that the early tiktok situation if we had 10,000 those 10,000 bot clicks, but it was at least like a thousand real people converting out of it I'm probably still running because that still would have been crazy like $20 for a thousand converges would have been crazy You know, whatever we spent so I'll look at campaigns like that We'll still get campaigns like that sometimes was like you can tell us a lot about traffic But we'll do our cost per click or our cost per conversion based on the smart link data And then that still lines over something that is worth it for us. We're like, okay, Facebook is saying we're getting I don't know a 8 cent cost per click But then based on the tone then conversion it's saying we're getting a 22 cent cost per click I'm like 20. I'm pretty happy with 20% Down to keep that going. So we'll let them know like keep it going. Let's keep running Exactly. So like that's that's really just the way to look at it We know everybody does encounter those things and if you want more information by the way on How to join our program you have to apply go through a call It's not something we just let everybody in but if you want more information In a good place to start is we have a video called how I made my first six figures in the music industry So you can check the description Hey, watch that see how we made the money that we made as music marketers, right? Or if you even if you're an artist and you want to see how we built infrastructure and got in the game Go ahead and check out that video. You can look at the title But we'll also make sure we put that in the description Check that out and see if you want to be in the program It'll give you all the information you need at the end of the video Other than that though, we got some topics some topics some topics Two which I'm very excited on one. I got a lot of words for but first we're gonna talk about summer Walker Ma'am.  That's just a blip in a relationship. You know what I mean?  Of course, I know I know you a fan as well. Love it. You know what I mean? and Over it went crazy. That was the one that really put her on the scene, right And just what friday, I believe I think she released it on friday. She dropped A sped-up version literally just that Nothing special Literally, this is my music And I'm gonna release the exact same project but sped up man Imagine the work that goes into that or should I say imagine the not work that goes into that as opposed to a regular project so There's a couple things about this as I think a good thing to do before we even get into it Let's see what the streams look like so far if anything is popped up in terms of her streams um Let's see if it is Registering I know they didn't do a crazy rollout so it might not show on our top streams.  Yeah, they they did it real quiet We see yeah, so it it might be hard to hit her tops because that's just Yeah, our numbers for you They crazy But we'll put it on the on the screen though so you can see it Last day of summer sped up literally that's it. Oh, that's funny. That's it right very simple work light work light work So with that being said now, why is this important? This is just being savvy paying attention to The climbing out here because what's popping on tiktok again and again sped up versions of songs just that's it What was the um, I think I ride a bunny. I think I ride a bun. I want to ride. I want to ride Yeah, what was uh, I don't even remember what song that was.  That's all I knew her for and I was like, wait what she got a hit It was this song. I was like, I know this song. Oh, they sped it up the regular version wasn't So and I know her team didn't do I wonder who did that, bro I don't imagine that somebody on her team sped that up like it was tiktok savvy like that It probably was tiktok. Well tiktok be making hits. They they do they do but literally that song Took off, right? So that was one of the biggest ones or early on like in the tiktok culture like cut through the sped up culture on tiktok Yeah, so if you see the culture literally just playing songs That's already I mean that are that are already out but sped up and that alone is taken off Then why not hop on the train because r&b is already slow Right that the fast-paced music is harder to like speed it up and it hits as hard sometimes, right? The r&b is already slow.  Give me some more awareness.  You know, I was good I didn't eat it. I just let that thing play no skips So like the sped up thing I could see more people doing it and outside of people trying to avoid it Just for novelty sake. There's a lot of other benefits. We're gonna get into but um or things to discuss But what what were your thoughts on and when you first heard about it? Yeah, man, I thought it was a good, uh cultural ah because we've seen Instances of of this come up before that I don't feel like ours really capitalized on I think back to um like that city of angels Takes out remakes that came out, right? I always thought at the time when 24k golden embrace that I always thought that was a great Look, it was like this year already out here. Yeah, it's moving whether you take credit for it or not Like why not allowing yourself with the right? So I always thought it was like a genius move in his part um There was like the whole drill version of xyz song trend that Is really just starting to kind of die down But it was like really big earlier earlier this year Maybe late late last year and so it's like every now and again Like fans will do something that impacts the way that other fans want to listen to music like it starts It's an idea and it's a hit and the next thing you know the rest of the internet Loves it.  Anyway, we might well find a way to attach ourselves to it I'm assuming that I don't know.  Um after this, but I'm gonna see if they Sped up The songs to maybe match the tempo of the the songs that were originally going viral on tiktok Because I think that would be interesting because that might kind of flip their whole like, um content ID algorithm Maybe make that shit start coming up something. I don't know isn't me speculating. I don't know But I think I think that would make sense right that right there is actually That's a very good point. Yeah, because that goes back to the conversation of ownership anyway All right, so you Actually, we'll get to that but the first you got ownership. Like I said, we own this song period, right? And the content ID all of those have definitely been slipping through. Yeah, it's matter of fact the Campaign you're all talking about today this morning or whatever We didn't know was that sped up or not? No, they doubt it is sped up. It is sped up, right? So got a client Very big artist. Hey, we can't We can't really even stand on this song hard for us to find on tiktok hard for us to do what a brand deal is like We need to just because we can't track this thing. Yeah, all right This the content ID, which I wasn't thinking about that part till you said it Yeah, that is a very simple way to then go ahead and trace every single thing that's been happening So I I can't imagine that they did they did not do that All right, so it's and they might even not care too much for the fan listenership aspect of it Of course, we're gonna market it like that. That's that's what we do. We market it all for the fans We love like we know y'all love our music sped up that at all But really we like hey, bro, we need to make sure we got this shit on lock get all the money That's related for it. Like, you know the pr so that that's a great point in the other side though Which I heard Joe budding bring up was the ownership of the project from our artist label standpoint All right, I don't know, you know because of summer situation. I don't quite know so I don't I don't want to speculate on hers, but just generally speaking Is that the same as taylor swift?  How that was outside those bounds and now she owns it because she re-recorded And it's not the original master and I know that was after I think a certain time range Like the speeding up changed something in terms of the ownership I'm not sure actually because I don't know how significant Like the alteration has to be or to count as that. I honestly don't know that that's a that's a good point though Because I would think my first thought is no like I feel like label that man We threw this shit in pro tools sped up That's what the label was gonna say when we talking about court Hey, you know the the artist right in their team cares about what court says the label Like is always gonna say no, bro. This is under this is under us like taylor like What would I think originally? Right. Well taylor just re-recorded bro. You just said the same lyrics is the same song. It's the same artist. I don't understand Hey I was a different person at that time that's old taylor so Like legally, you know, that's not rx-rates and we didn't take the time to look at the contracts or whatever But somebody who's out there if y'all are listening and y'all really notice Hey, please DM me brand man. Sean or y'all know how to get the quarry to whatever hit up one of us And break down for me break it down Hey, maybe we have you on and have a whole conversation about those nuances and rights and stuff because i'm always curious You know, I mean to hear some of that stuff. I know, you know, I know enough to be You know Competent, but that's not my side of the game. So I don't know enough to finesse anybody right just yet Yeah, that'd be that'd be an interesting problem Yeah, I'm looking at that. Yeah But but she wasn't the first person I saw do it. That was the artist I talked to earlier this year. Um This rapper from I think he's from Chicago His name is hate sonny And I remember at the time we had a console a consultation call like he was having the same issue what He had fixed the issue Because his song went viral on tiktok as a sped up version And then he was like, well, I'm just gonna drop the sped up version of my side of five, which I was like, jeez Very smart move. I'm proud of you for doing that. Um, and he was just having that issue of like how do I tie it back to My song and I think that was before Because you know, now tiktok has a feature where If there's a song the content he catches it the song the original song will pop up underneath it So I think he was having his moment before they released that feature. So Now he might be cool people are probably finding and translating over to the base off of that But at the time it was happening or had happened had happened. That was a big a big concern for him. So Yeah, like it's I think moving forward It's one of those things where it's like, bro, you see your fans like doing something like take advantage of it because like I don't understand how you as a music artist go wake up one day and see this Wild version of your song created.   Yeah, right? You don't have to Press any CDs and all it literally you just Speed it up release it officially bam the cost is low The marketing doesn't really even have to be done like that because it's out there like that already And you're still not trying to do an official rollout. So it's not even about oh now I have to do a regular push behind it. It's like just like you said put it under my umbrella So when they go they can get everything from this one. Stop shop. That's me All right. Oh a visualizer cool All right, all these little things that you can lean into or that they're they're nationally leaning into Go ahead and do it. All right speed music video speedy. Hey I haven't seen that one Go ahead and get that first right because I don't know you said she wasn't the first to do it in terms of releasing Our music, but the important caveat is album All right. See this is the thing man.  So I could say I'm first right first single Okay, bep. I'm gonna do the first album. All right, someone might try to do first in ep Hey, that's a stretch when someone already did an album. I can't he's hard to find somebody caring, right? But first music video, right Just those small little things is just a way for you to get extra attention. All right That's what we're always fighting for a little bit of excuse to create conversation anything that you can talk about And but if I was an artist, yeah, you remember when Lil Nas X released uh old town road And he dropped like 15 different versions of it. Yes, bro. If I was an artist today At least that was culturally savvy or culturally aware and I seen specific Specific types of music popping up, right? And I'm gonna just use let's use the sped up version as an example Let's use the the drill versions of as an example and I can't think let's just say I know like an afro beats version of it Let's say those are the three types of music that are online like culturally popping if I release a song I feel like I would naturally release A version of that like yo, I got this song coming out that I think is gonna be big or I want to push a lot Yo producer, can you make a drill version of this? Yo engineer, can you speed this up and give me a sped up version? Yo afro beats producer, can you flip this into an afro version? Right, just like just be able to hit those different pockets Because now you control the funnel of all that attention around this other fans We're probably gonna do anyway You know what I'm saying and be able to funnel it back to the only one you really can't do it with Is like when they do mashups like mashups you get to kind of at the end that yeah go where it goes But if there's a part of that process that I could control and get ahead of artistically I would do it because I can't imagine that it would be I mean, I guess other than like You know the ones that are complete flips by different producers. That's a whole another agreement and stuff like that But that's a really hot chance of being worth it. It has a really hot chance of just taking your song into Demographics that the original might not have gotten into and it's all gonna benefit this thing that you're trying to push anyway Like I thought that should be like a natural part of the rollout Like let me go look at the music cultural landscape see what social media is and all they like this type of shit right now Okay, I'm gonna go make a version of that around this or make a version of my song that fits into that And then let them do that thing with it. Yeah, it's like Letting the audience be a part of your production All right, we've letting we've let audiences be a part of our marketing and determining what we're going to push out a and r in that regard but A lot of people have not yet gotten gotten Comfortable enough to let them be a part of producing the song itself and I think largely that also goes back to The artistic vision. I wanted to be your thing. Right. It's like That's not what I decided to put out there. Right the ego related to that which I get I do get right you have your vision what you wanted to push out to the world But this is going to happen anyway Right, if someone's doing it and it's working people are responding well to it then Do it that doesn't mean this this is what you have to market heavy I stress that can't can't stress that enough You can still push your main version heavy and heavy But since this stuff is happening anyway You might as well get the streaming revenue you might as well get the rights and control and everything else that comes with it That's that's all we're saying now, you know, there's there might be some unique opportunities where it does make sense to truly like A triple down on whatever the new version that comes if it makes sense creatively But at the least all we're saying is it just put it on the umbrella Get the money and other benefits that comes with that now Other side of that You gotta talk about hyperpop Oh, yeah, because the whole thing this is just this is what this is, right? The culture has been trained today, right? It's not like this is anything new at all like sped up music, right?  You reference Like the old alvin and chipmunk album without grandparents So Right right now that stuff sounds crazy to me, but that's something like bray y'all can't Y'all can't talk about us man like the stuff that y'all so y'all had some wild experimental stuff Even when you know, how do you talk about Like, oh man, y'all wearing tight pants because you know they complain about the heavy the baggy pants Then they complain about the tight pants and then, you know, some of the older folks just like, oh man, you know, that's feminine I'll just say Hey What was Lionel Richie wearing, bro?  What would you look at them outfits dog? Like you can't talk about tight pants and talk about those outfits, right? I'm a prince of global suicide, bro. Hey facts Facts, right? So like come on, man. It's an even playing field.   Yeah But back to the point right so hyper part is obviously in that same category It's something that's been around in terms of musical technique forever.  Yes And if it's not him, he has a song that's hilarious that I I had to talk about one day that song is a meme song um But hyper pop today like set the tone in culture that reintroduced that sound right like you got complete artists that make all of their music damn near and that And now it's like, oh, well if you speed up a regular song it's almost like I can I don't if i'm a a fan and I only like stuff in the hyper pop style I can literally go out in the world and make anything hyper pop That's all that's basically what you're doing.   All right. We already seen hyper pop become more Organized I don't want to say commercialized. It's not on that level yet, right? But hey, again, you take advantage as a pop artist And somebody who already has traction whenever something like this happens within culture You have the ability to take culture that's already happening and be the first To show up on a higher platform. Yeah and get clout from it.  Yeah, and it makes it makes sense too By the whole sped up thing is such a tiktok heavy thing I thought about when you brought the hyper pop thing Another genre of music that influenced it too is the jersey club music like jersey club music has a lot of a lot of like sped up simply Jersey club music and hyper pop music are both really popular on tiktok. So it's like all these Kids who get that music or just people in general who get that music from tiktok It's like you're already trained to at least be okay with the sped up voices Like even if you don't like that music like you're it's not weird to you at this point, right? And so now when other artists do it, it's like, okay cool.  So it's just like you're right. Like it really has been like I will argue that hyper pop Probably started on tiktok. I think jersey club music probably carried it I could be wrong in that but just from me watching What songs pop when like it was a whole like sugar crush song that was killing it like 2019 2020 whatever that to me That was the first time I've ever heard that like currently you know what I'm saying?   See me these separate files Got a whole another project. Hold another single drop hold another asset to push the market crazy Yeah, no that That right there is um I don't know man. It's just like culture is happening in so many different pockets And then it's all about like culture making an impact is usually when things happen in multiple pockets And then someone finds a way to bridge it yeah, yeah, so We'll actually I want to I feel like more of this is going to happen So we're going to save some work on that convo another day, but the big thing The big thing for today that article you sent me over This right here. I'm a girl lord lord lord. She shared Lord shares concert industry explainer touring has become a demented struggle to break even or face debt That's a that's a serious word right there demented Yeah, we're talking strong language And we want to break this down but I think the best way to do it here is literally just Word for word read what lord said and then Talk the talk that we need about it from there.  Am I gonna do her voice? Yeah I don't got I don't got that one. They be right I did not have that one in me Hold up, man.  We might have to do a 10 second edit out I want to make sure they can read this on the screen when I do it All right, so if we scroll down To the note that lord has Left You said she sent this out on an email right to her fans. Yeah, the newsletter. Yeah newsletter All right, she says basically for artist promoters and crews Things are at an almost unprecedented level of difficulty. It's a storm of factors Let's start with three years worth of shows happening in one This is a reference to the pandemic and it has been crazy I cannot cannot disagree with it every event that I had been going to before the pandemic when I went to it Like the first one after this year Tripled in audience at least Ridiculous and that's not even just music by the way like almost any event. All right One music festival is crazy invest festival is crazy A lot of concerts I went to so Add let me see Let's start with three years worth of shows happening in one add global economic Down turn and then add the totally understandable weariness of concert goers around health risk. All right On the logistical side though, there's things like immense crew shortages Here's an article from something that what news is even we can skip that Extremely overbuilt trucks and tour buses and venues inflated flight Accommodation costs ongoing general covid costs and truly mind-boggling freight cost to freight and stage across the world Wait to freight a stage across the world can cost up to three times the pre pandemic price right now I don't know shit about money, but I don't know enough to understand that But I do know enough to understand that no industry has profit margins that high I'm gonna agree with you. You don't know much about money Because their prices they don't have that high profit margin. Their prices have increased too. That's why it's so high for them but This whole pocket right here is It's why everything costs so much. This is what she's referencing So the fans like y'all are paying what y'all are paying right but at the same time Extremely overbooked trucks, right? Which means those people are hard to get a hang of Which means the prices of have also increased because they can be far more selective with their work You got to pay for this covid cost and safety measures that you didn't have to pay for before Right, which probably Not only was it not fully accounted for because this is a new thing All right, so it's harder to account for it But it's not as efficient as well, which means it's at the costlier side of the curve Five years from now Covid safety measures will probably be a lot cheaper because it's been done You know people have made it efficient the the plastic or whatever You know it goes into it just like it took a while for At-home covid test, right? I was in the Walgreens the other day and now it's just right there You can buy it but before the government had to ship it Yeah, so is that type of thing called things are costing more money, right? This is what the artists are dealing with on the same side.  So What is she saying right here? bruh Our costs have gone up significantly But we can't charge the fans no more money Which means our margins have shrank crazy.  You know any fans that are going to pay three times the cost After we just went through the pandemic Yeah That's a tough. That's a little tough cookie to be in a rock and a hard place. Yeah, bro. I mean With that part like I always respect artists for not wanting to charge their fans more But I feel like as fans, bro We're smart enough to understand that like sometimes that just it is what it is Right, like you if you have an artist you care about And you like enough it might shrink the amount of people that Focus you because of that but like we gonna get it. You know what I'm saying But but bruh, I think you missing a point though You can respect the artists for not wanting to charge, but I think the reality is they can't charge more They think it's a cap on where they can charge Yeah, it's a cap to anything like an industry cap. No But it's I'm saying like that's why I say it probably would like Let's say I don't know how much her tickets were. Let's let's say her tickets were $300. I don't know sounds about right, right? Let's say she bumped it to five. Okay So 300 maybe she sells 20,000 tickets at five. Maybe she sells 14,000. Yes, you know what I'm saying? It's like I well, I'll do the math my head real quick. I might have actually just proved your point Doing that math that way or breaking it down, but I don't know man. I feel like the people that That like you enough are going to be okay with it and I mean to me it makes me also think about Taylor Swift conversation a little bit. I know we keep going back to her, but I'm pretty sure an artist of her size is probably having the same issues, right? Because all the things that lord mentioned being a part of the expense That's that that's that's Richard's problem. Like come on, bro. Like that average are saying don't even I didn't I didn't even think about the cost of ship of stage The flyer stage across the world idea. I'm like, dang, bro. You didn't just like get a local stage Yeah, yeah, yeah, so but Tell it did a really good job of Pushing everything back to violent Microsoft, right? So it's she probably is taking her touring and Just lumping in what her marketing costs. Like, okay, it's gonna cost me I don't know a million dollars to put this tool together. I'm only gonna make about 800k. I'm down 200k on that aspect of it But if I get all these people with a buy vinyls buy merch buy a teacher or talk about me stream Then my upside on everything else jumps up 100 or something. I'm good now. You know what I'm saying? She alludes to that a little bit, right? Later on in this, but I think There is multiple factors for artists and why they can't just up the prices because We can get deeper into this as we like finish it out, but All right. Yes, we know and in product sales There is an effect where you can up the price have less customers and sometimes make more money Now not let alone just the same, right? So That's a real thing. All right. So she might have those people who love her so much And they can come across the money that still go Yeah But One artist have this brand Impression that they have to be able to uphold All right. Yeah certain fans Like people don't want to look like it's a money grab. Why am I paying this much to go to your concert? And we're dealing with inflation on top of that, right? Which is also another thing. Um compressing profits. So Then you have a brand like lord Royals, yeah, you the girl that make royals We don't mess with the royals, but we gonna we gonna recharge this check From the peasants like come on man Like which I always thought that she was slick It was like she was becoming a royal by a song that was going against royals, but you know, whatever It's a finesse y'all are being finessed.  It's just bad pr. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, I think that's what it comes down to it's bad pr and Should you stop your show? Should you just not go on tour at all or should you just make it more intimate? There's there's some arguments on multiple sides, right and but I think as an artist There's a good argument on why you would want to break even and go ahead and do it anyway But let me finish this before we get there because she has a lot of a lot of stuff that she's revealing out of you Number one let's start in the second paragraph profits being down across the board is fine for an artist like me I'm lucky But for pretty much every Artist selling less tickets than I am touring has become a demented struggle to break even or face debt For some touring is completely out of the question. Even if they were to sell the whole thing out Even if you sell it out touring is out of the question. You can't do it The math ain't maffin. Well, that wasn't her words. The math doesn't make sense Right, but the math ain't maffin Understandably, all of this takes a toll on crews on promoters on artists You'll notice a ton of artists cancelling shows citing mental health concerns in the past year Which that is been a huge thing this year.  I didn't think about it till she said that All right And I really think the stress of this stuff is a factor We're a collection of the world's most sensitive flowers who also spent the last two years inside It may be the task of creating a space where people's pain and grief And jubilation can be held night after night with the razor then profit margin and dozens of people to pay Is feeling like a teeny bit much All right, so she's saying they're going through it now now Let's let's be towards the rest of this me personally.  She's flexing Oh, man, she's flexing. We sold out almost 20 bro.  I was looking at a show that was pretty undersold and panicking only for it to sell Only for it to still sell out the the remaining 2000 tickets in 10 days wild stuff Yo, uh, bro, this should just oh man, it gets funny I wanted to put out I wanted to put all of this stuff in your minds to illustrate that nothing simple when it comes to the touring at the moment And if your faves are confusing you with their erratic moves, some of this could be playing a part Man God leave man.  You know that last lines how she like turned the tide But you basically summed it up when you're like, man, this is like rich artist problems the way she she spoke of it um Dang man early art The way she words it makes it sound like I do think it is an issue that every Every artist is touring is dealing with because I got some art facts Art's homie's touring right now that like I have one that's on tour that Couldn't take his whole team because just taking his DJ and his tour manager put him at break even anybody else would put him in the Negative and it's like damn bro Like see he really took the bare minimum people I need my tour manager and my DJ everybody else Yeah, I watch this shit for instagram. You know, so I agree All right, so it's a real artist problems and she did allude to it So it's something we got to get into right it is real artist problems Yes, the way she said it it was like a rich artist problems, you know, um So Because you do have these people who are not like she said they're not able to sell what she sold And they don't have the fan base to she's probably not making Anywhere near what she normally will make but she's taking a Lower profit and then you're profiting crazy on the back end from maybe merch and all these additional things Why don't you want to say the back end because the merch is Is it's factored into your touring right a lot of times But she still probably has additional things to continue to upsell and make money for where you have a lot of artists That yeah, touring is not an option And that was your way to build your fan base, right? You're in that that phase of your career where you should be Touring as much as possible to add and connect with your fans So then you can go on that next stage where hey, I've made a song that's and got enough awareness for it Well, or maybe a project or set of songs that's gotten up awareness Let me to do a small tour connect with people personally and then I could come back and Hit a bigger lick with my music and now not only can it do well from our marketing But we have these real people in the world that we've connected with all over that you know, um Can that that can make a deeper connection with me and support me on a whole other level, right? That's that phase And it's like how do I make that phase happen if Shit the big artists are suffering We've now Squeezed everything we can out of it. So I haven't seen as many artists I haven't seen as many of the smaller artists take advantage of touring like that Just just because right and I remember Troy Carter said this I was on this zoom this is Probably March no march Let's just say in the first half of the year like the pandemic had we had only been in the pandemic and like locked down for maybe a month or two And we did a zoom chat and you know, everybody was like, oh man The industry is going to be locked down for another month or another month or three months, right? But people were thinking it was going to be good by the end of the year Like a lot of people are still trying to spread that noise. I wasn't believing it But it got validated When um, Troy Carter, he was it was on this call. It was so funny because yg had got on I think I sent you that right and he was having like Dude problems like using zoom for the first time trying to figure it out Watching and why g trying to get up make zoom work was hilarious, man um, man, I thought was just why g but he Troy Carter was talking about how live nation was um He had talked to some people and basically was like, yeah touring.  It was basically just like not a chance So don't even think about it and then even alluding to like big artists We the first ones to return because yeah, a lot of times the opportunities for the smaller artists Are through bigger artists anyway, like I'm touring everything set up around the bigger artists in the industry And then the rest of the touring kind of funnels to that. So that's a part of it. Yeah So if you're not one of those You really have to finesse to to make this happen All right, and we see this in any kind of marketplace when shit goes down right You have the top of the top And the bottom of the bottom survive What do I mean by that? Like if you look at clothing because bottom of the bottom sounds Bad not exactly what I mean but look at clothing or a provider for Something let's just say apparel So you can go all the way to the bottom and look at a low cost provider and look at somebody like walmart The bottom of the bottom or city trends or something And then you've got in the middle Right these other providers and then you go to Louis Vuitton Gucci and up and up from there Those people survive because they're the highest profit Right or highest costs for a specific audience and then you have the low cost audience, but the middle class Is always a part that gets squeezed out whether it's middle class jobs or middle class companies Because they aren't hard enough in a niche You can't charge more because Your customer base doesn't have that type of money and you don't have the brand to validate charging more And you can't charge less because your operation ain't set up to be able to handle charging less Right That's the issue that artists are basically figuring out right now is like damn us middle class artists Are the ones that are suffering and us who are trying to become middle class artists are suffering But you know the artist who's still just in his bedroom Like trying to make sure he can worry about tour problems. Yeah, right and like lord said my empathy my my You know my emotions are suffering but from a profit standpoint and a sustainability standpoint for my family I'm good. All right. I'm going to be able to weather this storm So that's really what we're seeing here. Just the sheer economics of of it And it's kind of why it's like it's always scary to be middle class, bro. You got to figure out how to like Get to one side or the other whether we have the financial side of it in terms of huge fan base and small fan base Right, then you have the middle class as well where it comes to Branding Within a niche right, so Always reference playboy card because he's like Just easy, bro. And it's it's like very clear what that fan base looks like Um, and he's like the top of it, right? That that niche, right? He's one of those guys now you can start adding yeet there and all that right who are coming in that same space Those people are going to be good right But that niche is going to go away in some years Right, it's always the copycats Yeah, right those copycats a lot of them won't be around But the ones who made it to that top and where that or the people are going to be good the people who are trying to Play around and i'm just going to do this kind of sound because it's popular But never really committing to anything and building a specific fan base They're going to find trouble. All right, and that same thing goes into Let me try to think about it. We thought we saw this in a kind of sound cloud space All right Now there's a lot of sound cloud artists There's only a few at the top of that specific niche a lot of people don't necessarily look at it You know a lot of sound cloud rap quote-unquote didn't Make it to full blown commercial But as long as you were The king of that specific Moment right or that specific culture You'll always be good. Yeah, because as You know people aren't involved in that part of the culture as much over the years 10 years from now Whenever they want to dip back, they're just going to dip back to the top They're not going to dip back for the most part to like Find a new person that they barely heard and didn't connect with you know You want your nostalgia at that point? So like that's that's what um This tour reminds me of like again just the economics of it and it relates to so much of what artists are going through but Like bringing it back to lower again though because I feel like we got Some more there's so many other points that we can bring out of this. Is there something What were your first thoughts especially on the second half because we kind of talked about the first half like What she got into how much ticket she sold? Um, just the problems that are going on the crew promoters. Did you have any thoughts yourself?  I guess I I've talked to clients got artist friends on tour citing a lot of the same issues. Yeah second thing I thought was like man, this is a Also a genre specific out of issue. I think you know going back to it's like, I don't know Let's compare like rap to pop right like pop Concepts you expect the much higher production value Then you would necessarily for even a rapper of the same size sometimes. I like like if I were going to see I don't know a little baby versus Tell us with I'm expecting tell us with concert to be the more the more cinematic and production value, right? I live everything about with some lasers made some smoke like Nice outfit on and like, you know, we could tell us we're gonna have the costume It's gonna be I don't know dancers and all it's like you're not shipping the stage out Yeah shipping the stage out like all this like this whole stuff. So I also think part of it is a genre specific, um issue Rappers and rapping general tends to be the most lean of of all the music genres r&b Pop anything that needs some musicality elements to it tends to be the most expensive aspect Like I'll mention with my friend my friend only had to take his dj And his tour manager if he would you know an artist that needed a full band or some shit like that I don't know what he would have did I don't know how he would have made it work But it worked out because of the genre and type of music that he made So that was the second thing I thought was like man, this is this is pop wire problems You know saying at least at the level she's talking about it. Right third thing I thought about is like The the way she expressed the message Made me feel like it was more of like a Like a ploy to get fans to buy tickets to the shows coming up Let's talk about it because uh like I mentioned earlier. This was a newsletter sent out to her fans. So email only newsletter So this message is really only being expressed to people like you and me because we we see on the publications I'm assuming some of the publication got word of it And so it's not like she made like this big deal about it like she's trying to like Change the industry or like rally everybody together to find a solution We've run enough email phones before why no like most email phones you have an email that specifically is meant to appeal to emotion Yeah, like almost every savvy email market is like, yo, that shit needs to be in that somewhere tug of their heart strange What and what did this email prep for one? Like you said Empathizing with her for sales. All right It's like, man, you know, she really struggling and she needs this because it's tough on her Maybe not as much as everybody. Right, but it's tough on her And I think that's part of what the save face of hey, I'm doing good though, right? It's because I wasn't begging y'all. I made you empathize but then I flipped it. It was like Don't worry about me. Don't worry about me. Yeah, sure girl. What's wrong? Oh, no, I'm good shawty. No, come on You already know so they playing that trick but on the other side What if Something goes wrong. You also are preparing him for that too prepping you for if I decide to cancel any of these two eggs It's about a thing like I get it. You know, she's probably not selling a lot of tickets and she's going through Middle school health stuff, which is all valid reasons. But yeah, like you said like now I'm it's not shocking now. I don't feel a call-off guard but because like I'm a fan. I got this letter Deep down, you know, it's a possibility every time I reach like that from ours.  You know what I'm saying? Yeah, um now outside like the industry right industry people having this conversation but consumers aren't having this conversation and then they also made me think like What do we do to fix it? Are we saying that crews shouldn't be Designed to be paid more. Are we saying that you know, um, like you said earlier like these Tour bus companies that now know. Hey, bro. These motherfuckers really want to go on tour. I got all the buses I can have the leverage here What person in their right mind wouldn't charge more in that situation? You know what I'm saying? What business wouldn't wouldn't start to go up on their prices? So That's what I was saying earlier to me the only Only maybe it's a couple different solutions. I see either Brands are probably gonna have to start being a lot more involved with touring, right?  So that to me is probably like one of the more natural first steps second the funnel is gonna have to be optimized for Something else and I think tours are gonna start getting looked at more. It's just a necessary marketing cost, right? Like the same way Um, like your ads and your influencers are going bro Your tour isn't maybe necessarily going to be the the cash machine that it was five 10 15 years ago Now this is just another marketing cost to put you on the road to push these people to something else That we know we're gonna make more money off of all right down right there As a digital marketer, especially digital first marketer I I can really really resonate with A funnel that you might break even with maybe even take a little loss Maybe not trying to but you take a small profit or you break even to set people up for up sales, right? Get it do it through and through day after day cool My problem with that when it comes to music I don't think they can take that right and the reason I say that is Is Many people most of the industry already look at the music itself as a loss leader Right, which means we ain't really making money off of this music. That's our advertising But we're gonna make money from other routes largely touring. That's why it hurts so much So now you're talking about our plan b Is now Going to be to break even again So I gotta take them through two hoops just to get the hoop now man I need the money as fast as possible because Production create creative work. It's already capital intensive, especially at that scale. So I think that's really tough, man. Like I'm all for again, yeah doing that, but it got to figure out a way to Not not to just break even for sure Yeah, not that and it ties back to uh a couple points. We've been making a couple episodes But like ours gonna have to start learning how to make money without leaving the house. Yeah Thanks Like you're gonna have to start taking advantage of these different platform and creator opportunities figure out your digital product setup figure out your online experiences and No, like you said one episode. Let's can we bring back live stream concerts? You know what I'm saying? Like let's just start prepping people for it because I mean going back to the funnel things like either I don't know either these first few batch of major artists They're gonna have to you know Bite the bullet and be a martyr for the cause and just take those massive L So that may be the industry two three five years from now is used to seeing artists Do that type of stuff and funnel it differently? Which I don't feel like a lot of them are you know what I'm saying? Like who wants to be the guinea pig to lose a couple hundred thousand a couple million to set everybody else up to be Okay, you know, it's not not many people in the world like that is willing to take that type of a L Hey, bro Lord jay-z little baby.  I got some songs. Well, our clients will love y'all to post brev y'all want to Yeah, y'all these were fluency campaigns and and it strengthens the argument to it You may about music as a whole been a losslier and I do think it's sometimes Like we go back to the credit stuff and we talk about how a lot of times artists don't want to embrace the same monetization opportunities that like influencers and just content credit are Taking advantage of even though they technically fit in the same category like y'all are One the same y'all are just selling different creative talents But like you say it's like touring was typically seen as the saving grace of it Could be moving towards whether it's not going to be that and so I don't know man. I just feel like if I feel like artists are going to have to start Just in general Looking at themselves more like crater first Maybe not crater first music already second, but maybe it'd be like a little bit of a 50-50 Like I should be looking to make just as much money and flip as many opportunities on my credit side of my brand as I'm looking to do on my music side Because the reality of it is maybe that your music side may never truly be lucrative enough To compensate you the way you want to be compensated But the doors that opens up for you in other areas does right you got a million followers on Instagram because your song went viral now you can afford to charge $30,000 $50,000 or maybe more probably more than that right for influencer posts, right? Music may not have been the thing that directly paid you that much money But it opened up a lot of doors for you to make more money off of other things around it Like look at Drake like we we had the conversation on the last part about um, you know Drake being more into flipping brand deals and you know, well We had to come to us about how we don't think bigger artists Or as stream focuses like smaller artists are like they're not really caring about the revenue because they just need the numbers to flip And the brand deals right Drake has that that deal with their sports betting company. That's probably paying him a shit ton of money So he just needs to keep the procession of hey, I have fans so that way these other entities would give me a lot of money Now I feel like that's how artists as much as they Probably don't want it to be that way right like every artist in their perfect world Everything would be taken care of off of just music In the perfect world or not even the perfect world 10 20 years ago That was the perfect world and almost every music artist, right? At least from a money perspective not But the reality of it is like Music is I think moving away from that because music is starting to get looked at No differently than just like other forms of content that we consume and Your Netflix movies or youtube videos things like that. You're just used to getting for cheap You're saying like you're you're just getting for cheap and then those companies find other ways to flip the audience into the more lucrative opportunities and I do think music is moving towards that where it's like, hey Artists five or ten years from now you could have a song With I don't know let's say a billion strings on it a billion strings might not pay the same as it is paying Now or you know, well, I guess there weren't strings before I mean, but Bro, this is why This is why we have to have that conversation about IP Right because you basically just Made artists akin to Netflix the movies and all things like that that are coming out. Yeah, so an artist at best is not just You know a creator of music them themselves is a true legitimate IP that can be monetized Again and again in so many different ways. Yeah, which brings me to did you watch the rereach it? You did I do cool. That's all right We're not gonna have time to talk about it here anyway and the forefront ain't great. So I'm watching the night though I swear The forefront you need to but you need to watch both of them because we're gonna do we're gonna talk about it Monday or whatever Yeah, yeah That one at least watch three bro because four is gonna be like why why shine got me watching this shit, bro Why he got me watching this shit? So but with that being said though Right, we talk about the squeeze I just looked this up because I was like know what I bet the other side is getting cut through as well inflation cuts into merch And vinyl profits even a sales skyrocket It's nothing worse when you're making more money and less money at the same time Such a conundrum It sucks man. It sucks and that's why you know sam talks about the It's like the zen the happy the zen happiness remember he went to like 40 million dollars of sales a year But found that he was making less money and he could have figured a problem out there But he said no, I'm just gonna make 6 10 mil and make the same amount of money for the same amount of effort because top line so This is what We've encountered we've seen this before right in ads. Well, you know, it's a very similar business model So I'll break it down like this Imagine that your customer acquisition costs Is five dollars and your product cost 20 dollars right great 15 dollars made per per sale And it's like that as long as you spend a hundred dollars. All right, you spend a hundred dollars Customer acquisition cost is five dollars, which means you got 20 customers All right, $15 profit off of each of those Right. So what's that 200? $300 right. Yeah, $300. So But next that next 100 customers, right All of a sudden your customer acquisition cost shot up to 15 dollars So now you're only making five dollars per customer You're making more money because you're getting more sales Like you're making more top-line revenue, but it's more expensive But now you only get five dollars per customer Which you customer acquisition costs 15. So dang you only got four six Really like six customers All right, so you only made 30 dollars on that second You you just made 300 dollars Right. Yeah, you made 300 dollars on the next hundred dollars though. You only made 60 dollars Or did I say 30 30 dollars? All right, so That's what artists are experiencing Themselves Had to take a little quick break kept on getting a little phone call, but what I was saying is So that's what artists are experiencing is like even if you're getting more and more sales Which feels great. You're making less money per sale Now you're working harder, right because you have to work harder to get more sales Let's let's make that clear. Yeah, all right.  I'm gonna dug it out If you can't work yourself out of the hole because supplies have increased so much That's a really really frustrating place to be so I do empathize with artists from that standpoint for sure And you know, we but we're seeing across everything. I just saw an article with about houses Causing or all right, especially to get something built, but then the supplies are lower quality So people are getting houses built, but more expensive Exactly more expensive for low quality stuff and the houses are falling apart. So imagine that frustration We're seeing it everywhere, man. And I can The stress of I lost money in music. I usually go to Touring and merch. Those are the two things and both of those are now Withering away Where do you go from here? And Right now it seems the option for most artists is just like Just tread water stay above water as long as possible until this phase goes Right now, I think the biggest thing is Hey, where you got to go hard online. Yeah, it's content content and maintain your brand So when the moment opens up you can cap as much as possible Yeah, but you got to figure out how to make it through this phase But you can't stop getting your brand out there connecting with people online through Content in general private groups live streams, whatever that looks like for you at your level That's that's the only solution I see right now Of course, we can do some math and come back with maybe another one on our future pod But is there any I don't know solution that you see because I did what she had some type of solution in mind Yeah, same I mean, I feel like you hit a nail in the head man Like art is gonna have to be a lot more digital savvy um and Look at building out the free components of The free components of the top of phone pretty much Like yeah, you can keep doing these things that pay for these people to come You know what the solution solution looks like to get people over to your product for free You're gonna have to start doing it and then like I was saying earlier, but I really do think Like long term that art is going to start thinking more like content creators and influencers Um and just look at like you would say and look at themselves as a netflix at disney A larger brand entity that's more so looking to build a big ip catalog necessarily more so than a Major music career That's that's right. It looks like I don't think a lot of people don't like that. I want to hear that But that's where I see it going bro music today is no different than any other piece of content we consume Not to not to the consumer brain every other piece of content Is relatively inexpensive, but I can watch it damn it every movie in the world for 999 on netflix. Yeah, it's crazy Yeah, so it's like if we as consumers are being trained to think that way about creative products Not even by the music industry just by every other creative industry Naturally going to trickle over the music music isn't any exception You know saying like we want to watch my movies on netflix Login to ticket master Damn, they want $300 for this ticket. That's crazy. I don't know about that You know saying like when I could maybe go to another art side like and say like oh man, he's only selling I don't know tickets to this online show for $8 like I wasn't doing that tonight. Anyway, I throw this up on the tv While I'm eating dinner or some shit right like I think he's gonna move into a lot more of these almost like Low ticket easy to put together offers that artists have to do rather than like you said they lean towards more with Consider the high ticket the concert tickets to merge the merch the bundles things like that um, and they use that to kind of like make up for And get a lot more into just fan nurturing and reselling right like how many times have we heard Just different business coaches talk about how many businesses lose money because they're not focused on the existing customers They're always looking to bring new people back into the fold. It's like you can either Go spend that $15 to bring in a new customer Or you can take that customer that you already spent $15 on and figure out how to set him You know instead of $20 a t-shirt of $50 another $50 product and another 50 another 50 another 50 So that way now it becomes it costs you $15 to get A customer that spent $200 with you right and then the margins look a little bit different So I don't think a lot of artists a lot of artists don't tend to be Fan focused especially when it comes to months that's usually more like new people I need new people. I need I need to keep getting bigger I need more and more people more and more people to know about me when in reality you could flipping him like okay Maybe I'm not going to spend the money to get more people to know about me I'm going to spend the money in time to figure out how to get the people that do know about me to spend more money on me I'm saying rather than trying to bring a new person the phone is only going By a $20 t-shirt. I'm saying that might be where he stops because I haven't laid the groundwork for them to Be upselling to things that make them more profitable as a customer Yeah, man, like he said they don't want to hear that though They're not going to hear that but I think you know, there's some some more solutions We can come with in a future part as well Like but I think the movie model is the way to go but with that Appreciate it Lord for being the martyr that she is It appreciates you throwing that out there, but next we got to get into our boy You know who our boy is right our boy. Yeah, our boy, man One of the one and only 50 cent Drake Hey, man, you are you the one who put this out here, man I think you might have been the one who's like actually brought all all three of the clips that we've had but like we're Well, I sent this I think you did. Yeah I think you sent this I don't know man. I sent it. Yes, bro. I swear you sent it All right. All right, so maybe we two in one there. We're two in one, but 50 has Three appearances in six episodes, man. So you batting 50 50.  Look at that. That's crazy. Um Well, here's this clip Um, just in our little vice column. Love them. I hate them. 50 is always entertaining crazy All right, so let me let me go ahead and play this real quick The pandemic overshadowed what the tax plan was Books to be and then I looked up at it and I was like later when I was when I saw her 50% That's a 50% All right, all right I don't know. Oh, you get an Yankee here. I'm going in That's the M&M show That is what it says, bro. I don't I don't quite understand what that means because M definitely wasn't there But maybe that is a I don't know. I'm about to look them up. Okay. I was arrived. I've not heard about that. Well, okay That does not sound like M&M laughing in the background No, that wasn't that definitely wasn't that definitely wasn't man But but as always man 50 the ever entertaining but also dropping some some interesting and real stuff And a lot of artists have asked that's about taxes and amusing marketers is slightly different on each side Right, what you're doing as a marketing agency or record label and what you're doing as an artist um, so this was a perfect clip right because tax season is coming up and it's funny because The pandemic showed a lot when it came to to taxes All right, we saw a lot of people leave new york a lot of people leave california. All right going to these states and what I thought about is You gotta be aware who's getting into your money Yeah, all right And the way I want to position this is the new middleman There's a new middleman who's getting y'all money, bro a new middleman That y'all don't see coming but he there and he's slick and it's hard because Middleman on the block everybody gets assassinated I thought that's where it started bro, so we get put on the map Get put on the target list. Hey, man, all I'm saying Is this is crazy we've been like oh man, we're cutting out the middleman the labels They don't really have as much control anymore. Tha da da da One I think some of that is overblown Right and it's not as much of the artists fighting and the labels not being able to get control as it is There's a new way that the label can get their money right and things that they have to adjust to right they see it come Anyway, there's marketplace change, right? It's always gonna get it back But the other part about this Is the reason that y'all say y'all don't need the labels is because there's a new middleman The new middleman is what y'all are saying is empowering y'all But we can't find a way around it and that's these tech platforms ah Okay How much of your money does tiktok get when you get a rose 50 50 percent 50 percent How much do you know when you get a super chat? How much they take? Actually, I don't know probably about I would guess around the same youtube or gotta be about the same They take 30 percent. Okay. Okay less. All right.  All right.  I was like damn wait to It's a 50 out this year. I gotta send you another 50 I just sent you money 10 minutes ago. What do you mean? You ain't got enough What do you mean we short that hurt because you knew better too, right? I did no better, but I didn't I didn't think about it in a moment. I was like, I was here. It's already set up. Let me go right send over to him My cash out doesn't exist Oh, man. Yeah, come on, bro But this is this is the dilemma that the artists are now facing right and there nobody's thinking about it Nobody's talking about it yet, but as a content creator these other platforms that are empowering you Are taking from your streams, right? They're there now you have more control Then you might have done a label or more information than you might have with a label But your distribution is going to be taxed more and more over time.  So you got to pay more in ads, right? We make it we give you ways to reach your audience though that do work, but you tax you for that, right? So we look at the great opportunities to stream from your room All right, and make money get donations great opportunity, right? The argument my argument, right? I'm the company because I always like seeing it both sides It's like, hey, bro. You don't got to pay for gas. You don't go got to go through the stress and headache All right, all these things you got a fixed cost. You really don't have employees You chose to have employees we can make money without employees, right? There's sides to it, right? but These costs are right now hitting costs that aren't fully being addressed Partially because there's some artists. Well, there's still a lot of artists and creators in general that haven't Experienced it yet on a level that they care where they're relying heavily on on that and in the other side of it is I don't think just enough people are Taking it seriously yet right now Is not enough people who are trying to say hey, I'm quitting and going to become a content creator I think there's enough actually, but we haven't seen that like Wave of people going back to work yet Or like coming out like hey, I really don't got it like y'all think I do We haven't seen enough of that yet for people to realize. No, this is a another Dead end in that regard you still gonna have to figure out how to fly before you hit that dead end wall Yeah, all right. So because you got the streaming you have Anytime you give money to the platform they're gonna take a money period. I don't care sticker stream subscription All of it bruh All of it and your fans don't know and the crazy part about it makes it harder For you to tell your fans to be like, no, don't give me money this way. Give it to me that way One cuz platform like tiktok is gonna say, whoa, whoa, whoa, man. Quit telling people to do that cash that thing All right, YouTube isn't as bad with that but tiktok like nah, dog. Like y'all You know y'all gotta do it this way and it's inconvenient for them And that's the thing Inconvenient right and we know higher friction means less conversion period All right, it's like, oh, okay. I'll donate next time then or when I'm like at home I'm like cash up or down. I got you like that type of thing. So you got to take the money anyway and let that let that Transaction occur because it still deepens the relationship even though you made less money than you wanted to And then try to lead people to these additional routes So there's a middle man coming and you know, we've been demonizing the labels for the past 15 20 years The creators At some point are going to turn on this new savior And look at him as a new middle man Yeah, bro That's gonna take the revolt of all the og tiktokers has been you know tens of millions 20s of millions. Maybe I guess some of them in the hundreds of millions Like you said, it's gonna take one of them come on go like man, it's tiktok. Shit. Don't pay what you think I remember when the credit fund first started and there was a lot of credit is posting their um payouts from Them here like multi-million streams and that started conversation And then that should die down because like you said We're looking at like, okay. Well, I don't get a million views on my videos. Anyway, so Shit ain't gonna take me. You know what I'm saying? Regular consumers are like, I'm not even a creditor. I never planned a joint credit fund So I don't care that you may 40 dollars for a million views or whatever.  And so yeah, man, like sometimes I understand Because I would tiktokers like that look probably looking at like, yo, we give you this audience so fast Hell, yeah, we're taking 50% brain away Bro, you think I'm about to put you in front of a billion people overnight And I'm not taking none of that come on now YouTube that's probably why that price is lower because like, yeah, we're giving you the access to the audience But it's a lot harder going to I would be pissed if I had the we had to work as hard We've worked on YouTube but I'm gonna take 50% of a super chat like come on, bro You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that was me that did that, right?  So sometimes I get it. Sometimes I don't get it But yeah, bro, I give it another three years Three years. Yeah, no three like just not enough people at the level yet for the trickle down It's like at least another I think at least another three years. Yeah, and you Still have these increasing costs What is it cost for your your merch? More are you gonna give them a lower quality shirt? for the same amount of money Right NFC shirt. This is how taxes work, right? It's like when taxes happen to government taxes Somebody's gonna feel it. That's the problem people are always like these people should get paid less money or these taxes should lower these It's gonna be pushed somewhere. Yeah, right? So, oh man, we taxing food, more money either the price of it the money The bread is gonna go up or the business is just gonna eat that cost. Yeah, all right How many businesses are trying to eat that? Like we're not trying to eat those costs, but you don't eat bread anyway, man Hey, bro, gotta have it gotta have it like Think as an artist, are you really trying to eat these costs? So it's the game that you're constantly playing and it's a part of it, but It's going to be interesting especially as artists, right? You still are going to have maybe the manager that you have to share a percentage with and those percentages have stayed fixed, right? It's like You're not going to see managers saying, oh, yeah, I want to take two percent instead of 10 percent You know what I mean because the rest of your costs are going up anything it might go up too, but It's going to at least stay fixed. So you got the same fixed cost With new added variable cost, right or increased variable cost That's never a good mix. All right, so Hey artist, but there's a new middleman in town And you know, we all got an answer to him in some way We answer the hours every Tuesday and Thursday Tune in So like hey, man, like We just got to figure out how to navigate that because then you're also going to still have your 3% that you're paying the payment processor on stripe or paypal or whoever Hey always you never want to avoid that one. We're gonna charge me to charge money.  That's a while, bro Oh, man But those are just the initial thoughts on and I think it's something we'll cover and we should keep getting we can We should get into more Um over time, but to end this out Do we have time To address one more topic just for fun 21 savage calling out his xxl classmates We got time for that. I think so. We got time for that. I've been holding this here. You've been holding it. Oh, man Because it I gotta pull that cover. Oh, no We're about to pull it up. We'll put it right on the screen because I think yeah We got to go person to person pound-for-pound. That was what 2016 xxl freshman I think it was Yeah, that's crazy. I'm pretty sure let's see. Oh, yeah, there. There he is I ain't even seen that 21 in a while. All right, bro. Let's look at it. Let's Extend it boom put it in the center a little bit on screen They got some people cut out come on now Why they got the top cut off? Let's see if I can make this All right, let's find an image on uh Google google. Yeah Let's see that real fast images bam bam All right, cool. So Let's open it up with the image. Oh, I'm on the wrong side of things All right, there we go. Cool So Who do we have we want we want to go down just personal person Or do you want to just start with some general thoughts? You're basically asking me do I want to individually shit? uh on these rappers, which I would say to that I am personally not against it because there are Hand full of people on this cover that do I don't think stand a chance Hey, and it's impact is different genre That's the hard one. I think we could address him last Okay Yachty. I'm sorry, bro. Like y'all know me, man. I've been I've been I've been talking my yachtyism for a long time I'm a solid fan. It's another mark against you, bro I mean, I love him enough to let him know when he's he's up against a different beast to be honest It's like don't walk on that battlefield. Please your dog. Hey, that's that's real loyalty. That's real loyalty right there little dickie No, sorry Not happening. No, not at all. Not at all. Not at all little dickie designer right here Respect for you what you did but no Okay designer and I do want to preface about saying like every artist on this cover I do like as a music artist. This is literally one of the strongest covers If not the strongest ever all time for xxl Lily every artist on this list is still successful That's davis Yeah, every artist on this list is still successful. I don't I don't see any any fails No, everyone on here, bro. I would probably say Dave east And this is what I like understand pocket watching and understand all you're doing so, you know Let's take it as you as it is, right Davey's probably no actually I'll take that back designer is probably the least successful on this cover In terms of okay in terms of lasting cultural moves because Dave east has made the pivots in terms into Acting and things like that, you know, he's been one of those things where he was never as hot as any of these artists Right. Yeah, right. He's probably the least hot out of all these over time But he navigated his navigated well and made the right moves He's only I would say he's only increased his value. Maybe not fully within music Okay, but as an overall brand, I think he's doing well as a brand. I think we already said we started with all these people We're considering successful Right all these people we consider successful in some way still But I think yeah, I think designer would be the low for me Yeah, just from what I understand the front front end, you know, there's not even like a personal opinion It's just the shit that I've seen and I'm aware of Yeah, he don't have enough because remember to the criteria for verses verses of where like an hour you got like oh Okay, so we're going back to music strictly Yeah, now we're out of the success. So are we just talking about music straight up? Yeah. Yeah, I was talking Yeah, the only the only People only I think is seriously compete with 21 Savage and the verses is Uzi and Clare, but Because they have Like love Denzel Curry, he don't have enough big hits. So I think it would have to be a very very specific crowd right a specific crowd And I wouldn't even say him with a specific crowd just because of Yeah, I would say g herba with a specific crowd Might have a fighting chance a fighting chance a puncher's chance.  Well, it's it's no different than To me, it's no different than the Gucci main jeezy I don't know man. I don't Let me say No different. Let me not say no different right what I mean. Let me explain Uh, this is my wop take of the This is my wop my wop equivalent take right? No, no, no what I'm saying is GZ add more Commercial success than Gucci musically, okay, particularly in that era. Yeah, okay, right?  All right, so maybe if you go to his hood I feel like g herbal does that it's hard to find that and Some of these other fan base, but I feel like g herbal might have that in That's that's that's that's that's that's such a specific. Yes agree the The Fahrenheit has to be right that day the moon has to be the right You know, we know it has to be a crescent moon. I get it, bro. But All I'm saying he might have a puncher's chance. All right, but I agree Kodak Would be bro only two that got a serious Anderson as well It's weird that he's on here the way he is now I understand at that time why he was on there because he was rapping a lot more in that and doing that using that part of his on toolbox, but Hey, man, he's on here 21 Savage said everybody on here, bro. We gotta go with everybody We can't just put them aside But that's what I'm saying, bro. Like they would have to be It would have to be the right room for Anderson pack If 21 Savage if it was mainly Anderson packs type of people. Yeah, bro. If it was Anybody else what I'm talking about 21 Savage's core audience Little white kids anybody else, bro.  Give it to them. They're not going to the verses, bro All right, old black people Anderson pack all day And then but 21 Bruno stuff. He gonna get off Come on now 21 Savage got post Malone fans behind him. He got Drake fans behind him now. So he can't talk about Bruno, bro We doing that we we don't talk about Bruno. No, bro. I like Bruno Mars, man I'm saying bro like that We can't be like, oh, you don't count the features and stuff.  Bruno isn't on post Malone and Drake's level I think I'm gonna stand by that I'm a let's let's start let's start with monthly listeners. You know, that's the go-to numbers argument Yeah, I think I'm I think I'm standing by that All right Drake I can get just from Malone. Jeffy like he's a different beast. I put him in a different category He's a 51 million monthly listeners Take a breath. I'm telling you the world is bigger than us my guy So it's a post Malone like like 200,000 behind him 200 cable. Hey, see what you talking about more than around longer So That's what Drake been around longer. That's part of why I didn't put Drake in um In Bruno's category. I mean Bruno in Drake category, but like we want to be realistic Shoot Drake got 66. Okay. See now we talking about different You can say he not what did I say? He ain't drink. I'll give you drink but but post And then we know weekend is above that. So all right. We ain't gonna get into that. Yeah, right. So Bruno Bruno's him, bro. That's all I'm saying bro. You know, I I grew you man. Like and nobody in the chat, bro Don't that ain't what I was saying. Hey, I'm I know bro, but I'm saying like it's like It's like going into a fight with one superhero on your side versus two with three of them Like, yeah, you make your features. Yeah The things you you're attached to I give you the people you've been able to siphon from right? I'll give you that And so it's like I like it's about the only Two people I think could seriously compete and that it would even be fair to put together would be Him and Uzi or him and Kodak because yes, the audience mash up the audience that would know about all of them So it would be a very fair fight. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody here knows about the other two versus like Like I said, if it was Anderson pack fans could maybe make a case that I don't know who 21 Savage is Probably not but maybe right or let's actually say if it was 21 and little dickie little dickie fans Probably make a case that I don't know who 21 Savage is Probably definitely make a case that I don't know who the dickie is, right Kodak black Uzi 21 Savage in the same room all their audience would know who the other one is It would truly truly be a battle of the hits or not. Who do I like the most? So Hmm All right, realistically because again, you know, I'm I was just playing the game. He said everybody So we had to at least consider and make an argument for Anderson. We know he's a different animal coming from a different space but Realistically is what you said, right? Yeah 21 Uzi and Dang Kodak, yeah Who do you got? I ain't a lot man. It's hard because I'm such a big fan of all three.  Yeah, but no flocking You got a lot. They all have a lot, right? Like the Atlanta and me is gonna say 21 Savage. Y'all always root for the home team It my I'ma say I'll put Uzi last Last yes crazy Crazy, I know somebody gotta be last, but I don't know I don't know how fast you threw out there I was doing the math bro. I think because because now we're working from the 20 That's what I'm doing. We're not just talking about the success of the artist So we're working with the concept of 20 and I think I personally think Kodak and 21 have more on that level then And Uzi because you know Uzi had the whole thing where he just would have period You know, he had to go dark because the industry should right so that took away from it I'm not saying he couldn't have had more but you know, he had he didn't have as many that hit on that level now I could be wrong. Hey, I'll make the argument 21 just off the top by the way. So uh, I think 21 I don't think he has as many as As high as Kodak Right, let's just say if we may like maybe a top five or something like I think maybe his top five might be stronger than Than 21's top five but I'm pretty certain without looking at the discography I think 21 would get him in 20 in 20 And 20 it's because the argument that people are making against 21 Savage is that his biggest song is a Manly feature he's featured on or has features on whereas like the other artists. I have like really large solo hits So we're going straight with the we're going to go with the solos man I mean, I think that's a strong argument against 21. I came Can't lie about that one for sure. That's true. Man. He got bank account. You know what I'm saying? He got Let me look at the catalog, bro. Let's see. What was on I am? I was A lot Yeah, how about just say no no like his biggest ones are definitely Future that's what but this is also why I also say in 20, I think he He ekes it out but I don't think his top is his biggest ones aren't as big as kodak. I don't think that's just off Off the top though. Let me let's pull it up.  Oh yet that by itself For sure. You the numbers definitely speak for that one alone. Let's see. Let's just pull up, you know Just do a quick. We're not gonna go on this forever because we know that there's you know There's emotions that gets involved as well. But let's just look at the top five from drowning zeezy Silent hill super gremlin and walk doler Kodak's top five on spotify and then he can technically also do by yellow Because that let's you do songs that like you wrote or have some fire and technically, you know Yeah, see, but we're just gonna go off of the spotify top five just for simplicity Just for simplicity because we have I mean 100 percent.  I'll still look into my phone Oh, man I forgot this Drake see that This is new stuff from that new project that that complicates his top five because none of those have actually Like hit yet Not that say that people aren't playing them, but you know, it hasn't been enough time for culture to like truly like crown them Uh That that messes me up What was on sat with savage mode two now heroes were cakes I don't know bro 21 savage because of how much he collabs with other artists, bro. He got so much out there Yeah, he does and then versus they can use they can use things that were features on All right, so I'm I'm I'll say this then with 21 since we can't just use the the spotify top like I wanted to um The thing about 21 that he can say Yeah Features features features features. Yes.   It's usually not him going to them All right, it's them using some of his powers his aura so they can get in that bag this this project I'm still not um done with the drake 21 project By the way, I keep wanting to finish it but then I keep starting over from begin every time That's my favorite project of drakes In the last three projects probably like Just from like the first three or four songs I'm like, it's resonating with me and where I'm at in my life You know, sometimes you listen stuff a different life But that's the first one that when it came out It hit me enough and where I'm am that I feel that shit and and it's the movie. I'm with it. All right, so That that's that's how I feel about that. Then you got the The lot right, we know that with um with j Cole to change something when he dropped that last project The uh, the basketball is it called? Straight to the least something like that right rapping to look something rapper to the league or yeah, whatever, right? We know we talk about the same thing That 20 his 21 tracks or some of the best tracks on there. Yeah, so 21 elevates.  He likes like salt man, you know, you you go into it looking at salt Not expecting much when you put salt on some food, but it becomes amazing Exactly bro all 21 of them herbs and spices brother. He'd be putting on that shit, bro Be making it taste just perfect man And there's a lot because on that list I think he's probably the better feature artist Like and there's a lot like like you said, bro Like everyone is always looking for who is going to help put them in the best situation Yes And so if I had to pick between those three artists, I mean who is constantly going to do a good enough feature job That I'm in a great situation. I probably will go to him. What's that easy?  I think it's because he's he became more of a personality faster than t pain did I agree with that and I think the sound isn't as specific As and you know as novel as when team came out, but you know, they also didn't get exploited as quickly what they hopped on T-Pain what they were everybody was going for bro. Yeah, so a natural period period of time. So there's been factors, but I think For whatever way and whatever reason, right? I'm not even here to break down why that may or may not happen point is He's been a go-to feature person like t pain was in that period of time and the impact it has has lasted more maybe t pain had more As much as 21 had in a short period of time whatever but like He's not his brand is only elevating which we you know for many factors T-Pain took a took a toll for a second right and many of them were unjustified, but But boy, yeah, we're 21 is my one of my favorite favorite favorite brand stories Over the last decade him and Him to change I'm sure there's a couple other but those two like just the way they navigate Level of strategy difficulty and how they move not just oh, I'm the biggest artist in the world And I pop like I'm like Cardi B dead. I don't know where like not one of those like they really Navigated their way to where they are Yeah, 21 and two chains are two of my favorites. Yeah, he's real. I think we gotta do episode about that one They're like because I will put 21 Savage in the conversation of best rebrands one of the best rebrands ever bro Like, you know, if I would have told you 10 years ago Follow the names like 10 because he went around 10 years ago. Let's say five years ago That one day 21 Savage was gonna give you financial advice Yeah, you have laughed at me I mean, I might have asked about what You know, I mean like just good. Yeah, you know because of the brand We're talking about working the street. Are we talking about how to move right? But I always would have thought it would have been good the way he presented himself Yeah, that's true because he's always one of the interview you could tell brush sharp He just didn't have the experience maybe in some of the categories. Yeah. Yeah. He's even going into the whole financial literacy Brand that he's in like it was a very interesting flick. I don't know if you remember He started by doing the almost thought went jewelry thing and that was like Wow, I'm being smart about my money. It's like, okay. So 21 Savage knows something right? Like he's been listening to some Some some Steffan Graham or something. I don't know man somebody got Somebody got him right and then he elevated from there. I got the cash up thing, but he I think he has one of the most interesting rebrands And music artist history of all time because it's It's so far left field from what you're used to seeing artists in his his demographic use that brand for That is like it's shocking but in a really good way.  All right. Um Damn, all right top three 21 Kodak So you agree. Look at that. Look at that man. You could have just said it when I said it That hurt, bro, honestly in a perfect world if I wanted to I wanted to say It would end in a top And we all of us his fans go home All of us his fans go home happy And I'll bump all that music going the way home And I don't have to deal with this thing from any of my favorite hours Hey, man Well with that we are gonna end it y'all stay tuned every Tuesday and Thursday No labels necessary appreciate y'all for listening this far because if you listen this far Hey, it's all love y'all a real fan and giving us the views and streams to let us know is Worth continuing to keep this thing going give us the feedback. We appreciate everything y'all told us thus far I am shine. I'm kori and we're out peace