Welcome, everyone. Our presenter today is someone who has a passion for flying. But besides having a passion for flying, he likes to share that love with other people. In fact, he has over 8,000 hours of dual instruction given.  A very difficult job. Doug Stewart owns his own flight company. He flies out of an airport in Hudson, New York, and comes down here to talk to us today. Please welcome the 2004 Flight Instructor of the Year, Mr. Doug Stewart. Thank you. Thank you, Kathleen. Good to see you. Well, hi, everybody. My name is Doug, and she's pretty much said everything there is to do about it. And I see that my program isn't up on the screen, which is going to be very interesting. But we'll continue on. What we're going to talk about today is flying the New York VFR carter, okay? We're going to talk about several things. Number one, why we don't have... There it is. It's up finally, okay? We're going to talk about, to begin with, why fly the carter in the first place. It is a rather dangerous place. So we'll discuss some of the reasons why pilots might want to fly it. We'll certainly look at the risks. And if ever there were a risk-filled area, this is it, okay? We'll talk about the equipment that we're going to need to fly in this airspace. We'll talk about the best altitudes to use, the altitudes that I recommend, predicated upon my experience there and knowing what's going on within that airspace. We'll talk about communication. And in my talking about communication, it really is applicable to any type of non-towered. And the FAA hates the word uncontrolled, but sometimes you get down there and it almost seems uncontrolled. We'll talk about how to communicate in that airspace. And then most importantly, we'll look at all the important reporting waypoints that exist along the route, okay? To begin with, why fly the carter in the first place if it is so dangerous? Why do we want to go down there? Well, it's a wonderful and easy, convenient way to transit New York airspace without ever having to talk to air traffic control. And to be honest, we'd be much safer if we were up in the class Bravo, but many pilots are intimidated, especially by New York controllers. So it is a way to get from north to south or south to north without diverting way off to the west or off to the east out over the water to get around the airspace. We can transit the airspace below it, okay? If you wanted to go into Newark, VFR, or into Tita borough, VFR, it is an excellent way to get there. In fact, I even took a Piper Supercruiser into Newark once coming down the New York VFR carter. So it's an effective way to make that transition, okay? It can be an off-filled scenic flight, which is the reason that most pilots fly. And I would suspect the reason most of you are here to find out about flying it, you want to go down there to see the scenery. I think of all the canyons we have to fly other than the Grand Canyon, perhaps this is one of the most off-filled canyons we have to fly. However, we have to be very careful that if we get so filled with awe, all of a sudden it becomes an awe-full flight. And that's what I'm here to do, is to keep you from having an awe-full flight and let it be off-filled, okay? What are the risks? And I think after you see what the risks are, you might decide you don't even really want to go there to fly, which has certainly happened with some pilots, okay? To begin with, there is a very high density of aircraft. We're talking about a piece of airspace that at points is only a half mile wide, and it's approximately 10, 15 miles wide, depending where you really want to say you're starting into it. And a lot of aircraft can be in that airspace. There have been times when I've counted over 30 aircraft announcing within the airspace, okay? So high density of aircraft. Who's providing us separation? Well, no one, but each and every one of us, as pilots in command, with sea and avoid, traffic collision avoidance. So no one is providing separation. And in fact, that separation can get as close as literally a quarter mile and 200 feet. One time I was, in fact, the last time I flew it to do photographs, I ended up literally a quarter mile behind a helicopter and 200 feet above him. We both knew where we were, and there was good communication between us. But that's pretty minimal, and would you really want to be flying that way, okay? And then there's a mixed bag of aircraft types. We might have helicopters and numerous types of helicopters. We're going to have the scenic helicopters doing the scenic rides. We're going to have corporate helicopters flying into a variety of heliports. We're going to have fixed-wing aircraft, and they might be something as small and as slow as a champ, or a cub with radios, or something as fast as an MU-2. I have been passed by an MU-2 once down there, just going a ridiculous amount of speed. So we have high density of traffic, minimal separation, and a vast dichotomy of performance between all this aircraft. So this right away sets the stage for a very dangerous piece of airspace to be in. The scenery is the reason many people go there, but the scenery can certainly be a great distraction in your job as pilot in command of seeing and avoiding. And if you've brought passengers, and very few of us really go down to do this scenic flight without passengers, your passengers can become even more of a distraction by talking to you. We'll address that in greater length as we go on. Quite often the air can be very, very turbulent, and I must say the most severe turbulence I ever experienced was just south of the George Washington Bridge in a champ. It was severe. You know, we have that sailing. It's much better to be down there wishing we were up here than up here wishing we were down there. That was one of those situations where I was really, really scared. Because of the ourographic situation that we have there, there are group of cliffs down the west shore of the Hudson River on the north end that transition into skyscrapers. Certainly all of Manhattan is filled with skyscrapers. If there's any kind of wind blowing, we're going to have turbulence. And as I said at times, it can be severe. Where are you going to go if the engine quits? And we'll discuss this at greater length as we get into the program. But basically, there are very few places to land if you do have an engine failure. Most likely you're going to end up in the water. Occasional TFRs do pop up. It's a center for economy in the world. It's a center for politics in the world with the UN. TFRs pop up there quite frequently and pilots do end up violating them and getting caught for them and having to deal with those issues. So we do have occasional TFRs plus we have to remember the sports stadium TFR and there's those as well that we'll have to look at. We'll see some of those as we go through the program. Basically, we're going to be very flying very, very closely to the class Bravo Limits, both vertically and laterally. And it's very easy if you're not paying attention to bust the class Bravo airspace. And although I don't really know of any case where a pilot was really violated for busting the airspace, it can very easily happen. So after you've heard all of that, do you really want to go and fly this airspace? You do. Oh, I figured that. That's why you're here. But you understand the risks and obviously you still want to accept those risks and that's what flying is all about. And I think that's really part of the joy and the excitement of flying is that we know we have risks, but we want to manage them and we want to do the best we can to manage them. So let's take a look at how we're going to manage the risk. We'll start off with the equipment. We know that we're going to be inside the Mode C veil, so we need a Mode C transponder. And as far as the regulations go, we don't need anything else. You say, my God, we're going to go fly down in this dense traffic area without anything else but a Mode C transponder. Well, let's take a look. Okay. What equipment will we need? We need the Mode C because, and I'm told I can't use my pointer here, basically we're going to be in either Class E or Class G airspace as we come down. We can see a transition zone here and we know that Class E has a base of either 700 or 1200 feet depending on our depictions here. So it's quite possible that we're going to be in Class G airspace through a lot of that. What do we need for visibility and distance in Class G airspace?  That's another joke I can tell another time. Okay. We're going to need a minimum one mile visibility and clear clouds. Would you want to go fly down here with just one mile visibility and clear clouds? Absolutely not. Okay. But we see per the regulations that would be all that we need. Let's look further though. If you look at the back, this actually appears at the back of the terminal area chart, we see that there's some recommendations. These are not regulations but some recommendations to not exceed 140 knots indicated airspeed. Well, we know the speed limit is 200 knots and that MU2 I mentioned, he was doing about 199.99999 as he passed me. Okay. But we are requested to not exceed 140 knots. Turn on all your anti-collision, position, navigation, and or landing lights and self-announce on 123.05 for the Hudson River. Okay. So this means that we're going to need obviously a radio and lights. It does go on to say these recommendations do not relieve pilots of compliance with the applicable FARs including regulations governing minimum safe altitudes. And we're going to look at that in greater detail as we go through this. Okay. But after looking at that we see, okay, we're going to need a mode C transponder and nothing else illegally. However, you will be really foolish to go without two-way communication, as many lights as you possibly can turn on, and a terminal area chart or better yet a helicopter route chart. Now many of you are very familiar with the terminal area chart. We've all seen them. It has a scale of one inch equals three and a quarter miles. Okay. If we get a helicopter route chart that scale drops down one inch equals 1.78, seven eighths of a mile. Okay. And we also see that there are a lot of graphic depictions of things that we're going to see. For example, here I am circling the trade tower and say, well wait a second, we lost that at 9-11. Fact of the matter is helicopter route charts are not published as frequently. The most current one was published in 1999. But some good things to know it is published on a plasticized piece of paper. So that if you do have to ditch into the water, this map is not going to come apart on you as you try to figure out which is the closest shore to swim to. Okay. The other thing you'll see, I do not mention GPS coordinates for any of my waypoints on this. However, many of them are listed on the helicopter route chart. As well as many of the routes, you see these blue lines, here's my cursor, you see these blue lines. These are the routes that helicopters are taking. Okay. So it gives you a clue as to where the helicopters might be seen and the types of routes that they are flying. Okay. Let's talk about the altitudes that we should fly. And we're going to look at this as if we are flying from the north going southbound. Okay. As we come down from the north, in order to get below the class Bravo, which begins north of the Tappan Zee bridge, begins up over here, we have to get down below 3,000 feet. As we come up to Alpine Towers, we have to drop down now and the airspace comes down to 1,500 feet. Continuing south, just north of the George Washington bridge, the airspace drops down to 1,100 feet, comes back up to 1,500 feet for a little bit, and then drops down to 1,100 feet again until you get past the Statue of Liberty Ellis Island and then just short of the Verrazano bridge goes back up to 1,500 feet. Okay. So you might think, well as long as I stay below the Bravo, everything's going to be cool, I'll be safe. But here's some other things that you really should know about before you decide what altitude to fly at. Okay. Let's consider the regulations about minimum safe altitudes. It's covered by 91,119 and they say in general, except when necessary for takeoff and landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes and they start off with saying anywhere an altitude allowing if a power unit fails an emergency landing without undue hazard. Key words here to persons or property on the surface. Okay. I defy you to say how you might be able to land in some of the ball fields and parking lots without undue hazard to persons or property. Okay. Then they go on to say over congested areas. Well I don't think anyone can argue that we're flying over a congested area and it says then that over congested areas or any open air assembly of persons an altitude of a thousand feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. People are not aware that other than, well they are aware other than congested areas an altitude of 500 feet above the surface and then helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed above as long as they are conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. And a lot of pilots will see these helicopters operating at 500 feet around the Statue of Liberty and why not remember. They are operating under a slightly different set of regulations than we in our fixed wing aircraft can do. Okay. So when we're thinking about the altitudes we should fly there. A couple other considerations we have as well. This is the river visual to runway 1-3 at LaGuardia. And on the right I have the parkway visual to 1-3 left and right at Kennedy. Okay. Obviously we've got airplanes flying in here pretty low and if we look here it says that the aircraft have to maintain at or above 2,000 feet until they're north of Central Park. Okay. And on the parkway visual we see when clear they have to maintain till 2,000 feet until a beam rockaway point which is right over here. Okay. What's the first thing you think of when you think my god here are heavies and we're talking about 7-4s and MD-11s and things like that. What's the first thing you think about? Wake turbulence. Obviously, yes. A very serious consideration. But there's something else to think about and not many pilots do. Every one of these aircraft is flying with T-CAS on board. And the way T-CAS works, if they detect a transponder reply that shows an aircraft climbing at greater than 500 feet a minute below them, issues something called a resolution advisory. And the aircraft is mandated. The pilot is mandated to climb. The RA will say climb. They don't call New York approach. Say, oh, New York approach. We're getting an RA. Would it be okay if we climb up a little bit here? No. They initiate the climb, then call New York and tell them we have an RA. We're climbing for the RA. What do you think about the guy who's five miles in trail behind that 7-4? What is he going to have to do? He's going to have to climb and the next one and the next one. So obviously we see that if we can't maintain accurate altitudes and minimize our climbs to less than 500 feet a minute, which can be very difficult to do in the kind of low-level wind shear that we might find down in this area, we're going to play havoc with New York approach and all the aircraft approaching LaGuardia, Kennedy, and Newark as well. Okay? The altitudes I recommend. As we're coming, if we can, again, considering coming southbound, I like to get down to 1,800 feet by the Tappan Zee bridge. My reason for this is although I could be just below 3,000 feet, the Tappan Zee is a reporting point for many of the corporate aircraft going into Westchester County, White Plains, and they're typically told to descend and maintain 2,000 to the Tappan Zee bridge, report the Tappan Zee. This means that we're going to have very fast corporate aircraft and we're talking about G4s, challengers, citations, leers, et cetera, coming down to 2,000 and moving along in a bit of a hurry. Okay? I want to be sure that I'm below that traffic prior to getting to the Tappan Zee. I'll continue my descent so that I reach 900 feet by the time I get to Alpine Towers, no later than Alpine Towers. Now, 900 feet is going to give me 200 feet below the overliving class Bravo through most of the airspace. Plus, it's going to give me typically 400 feet above most, not all, most of the helicopter operations. And we'll look at the helicopter operations a little farther into the program. I'm going to maintain 900 feet all the way down to the Verrazano bridge. Okay? At the Verrazano bridge, if I'm continuing southbound down into New Jersey, I'll start to climb up to 1,400 feet. It has me just 100 feet below the overlying Bravo. Again, it requires attention and precise flying. And I'll maintain that 1,400 feet till I get a beam sandy hook, at which point I can continue on up now and just stay below 3,000 feet till I'm clear of the airspace. Some pilots will fly around over to Long Island. From the Verrazano, they'll head over towards Rockaway Point. You have to descend down to 500 feet and you'll end up talking to Kennedy Tower and we'll talk about how you can do that. But you've got to get back down to 500 feet by the time you reach Rockaway Point. Now, you're flying over an awful lot of water, so it doesn't mean that you reach the Verrazano, do a kamikaze down to 500 feet, and then motor on along. Just plan that to send out so that you reach 500 feet by Rockaway Point, okay? If you're continuing on south, as I mentioned, up to 3,000, okay? Let's talk about communication. And basically, we're talking about communication in the non-towered environment. And anytime we do this, we know we have to keep it short, sharp, and simple. A sample communication might be river traffic, skyhawk, Alpine Tower southbound 900 feet. Notice I didn't use a tail number at all, okay? Tail numbers are really virtually useless in this airspace.  My supercruiser has three-inch numbers. It's legal. They're on my tail, okay? If you're close enough to read them, you're too close. And most people wouldn't know what a supercruiser is anyway. So I might say a red and cream taildrager, okay? The other thing that's extremely important in your altitude, where you are three-dimensionally, and your direction of flight, because remember, there's going to be opposing traffic, and our lateral separation might be down to as little as a half a mile. It's highly critical that you say your direction of flight, okay? If you're coming southbound, I'll typically monitor New York Approach on 126.4 north of the Tappan Zee. By monitoring New York Approach, I not only can pick up the altimeter settings, although we certainly have numerous aduses. We could listen to Westchester County, Tee de Borough, LaGuardia, Newark, Kennedy, numerous airports to get the altimeter setting, but just monitoring New York Approach helps you with that. Plus you will hear all those aircraft that are getting vector to the Tappan Zee are getting those vectors from New York Approach. As soon as I get south of the Tappan Zee, I will switch to 123.05, which is the common traffic advisory frequency for the Hudson River, okay? And I'll maintain that frequency again all the way down to the Verrazano, in fact, south of the Verrazano, okay? As I've gotten south and start to climb back up, if you want to monitor 127.4, or if you're coming northbound, monitor 127.4, basically from the Colesnag VOR on up northbound, okay? Those are the important frequencies. You certainly could also call them to get clearance up into the Bravo, okay? Anything else that you need to know? Well, yeah, there are a few things that I think are kind of important. Number one, the most important thing we have here is that it is C in a void, collision avoidance. The only place your eyes really should be is outside of the cockpit. And this is one of the reasons why I haven't put GPS coordinates here. If you're flying looking inside of your GPS all the time, if you're flying inside looking because you've got TIS on or whatever kind of traffic avoidance systems you have, and I recommend actually that you put those to standby or turn them off because your distraction is going to be constantly to that screen. You're going to get, if you've got the TIS, for example, that little yellow inset is going to come up constantly. It's going to distract you, okay? Your eyes need to be outside of the cockpit. Collision avoidance is our primary concern in this airspace, okay? Keep a sterile cockpit. Now, we know that the airlines have a sterile cockpit up to 10,000 feet. Well, obviously, if we do that, we'd never talk to our passengers. But you really have to tell your passengers that basically once you are at Alpine Towers until you have cleared south of the Verrazano, better yet cleared south of the airspace, they need to minimize their conversation only to issues of safety, pointing out traffic at your altitude. Have them use clock direction. Of course, if they're like me and they have to use a digital there in trouble, I've got actually a picture of the clock on my dashboard, my glare shield so that they can see the clock directions. I'm told, traffic three o'clock, I look here, I'm stuck.  If you have got pilot isolate selections on your intercom, go to that pilot isolate so that your passengers are not distracting you. Really critical issue here. They have to be quiet. Otherwise, you're flying along. Oh, Doug, what's that? What's that? Oh, look, look. Oh, look, did you see the intercom? It's going to distract you. Have to keep a sterile cockpit. Okay, fly to the right shore of the river if you're southbound. Anybody from England, by the way? Okay, well, we don't have that problem then. Okay, we want to fly to the right side. If you're southbound, you're on the Jersey side. If you're northbound, you're on the Manhattan side. It's an unwritten rule. Some have asked, well, what about getting out in the center? Well, obviously, if everyone's in the center, we have much greater issues of collision here. Okay, understand that the route can be flown in the Bravo. And I highly recommend it. A lot of people are afraid of that and think, oh, well, you can't do it. Well, I have heard so many aircraft, seen so many aircraft, and done it myself, going down the river at 1,500 feet. Call New York approach north while you're still up before you've gotten to the Tappan Z. Let them know what you'd like to do. Typically, they'll clear you at 1,500 feet. Now, what are the advantages of being in the Class Bravo airspace? Certainly, they're going to provide separation for us, okay? We need a clearance, correct, to be into the Class Bravo. That clearance defines the fact that ATC is providing separation. So we're going to get separation furthermore. We know there's nothing as useless as altitude above us if we have that engine failure, more opportunities to select a safe landing spot. And you get to see more. Just that extra 600 feet can mean such a difference in what you actually see. You would be amazed at the difference, okay? New York is always amenable to it. The only things where it would prevent you possibly from doing that has to do with what they're doing in departures out of LaGuardia, okay? Departures out of LaGuardia, if they are using also arrivals as well, if they're using that river visual into LaGuardia, obviously you're not going to be able to go 1,500. Also, sometimes they're bringing regionals down the river into Newark at 2,000 feet. So you're not always going to get it, but if you don't ask, you're not going to know. And you're so much safer up in the Bravo. I highly, highly recommend it. The last thing that I'll say is that not every pilot has seen this presentation. And I'm not being filled with hubris here saying isn't this great. What I'm saying is that there are many pilots and I used to say that the ink hadn't even dried on their temporary. Now I say the plastic hasn't even hardened on their temporary. And it's grabbing all their buddies or their wife and kids and where do they go to fly? Down to the Carter. And they don't have a clue to what it is that they're doing. I've heard pilots down there circling against helicopter traffic exactly at helicopter altitudes around the Statue of Liberty.  So remember, there are a lot of pilots down there that don't really know what they're doing and we have to be careful of that, okay? The important way points are listed here on the screen. I'm not really going to hang out here too long on this. I do have a DVD on it, a little plug here. I do have a DVD that you can access through my website and get all of those or ask me later and I'll set up my computer and you can copy them down. We're going to look at each and every one of those now as we fly southbound down the route. We're starting up at Croton Point and it is not a reporting point on the terminal area chart. You won't see that little magenta golf flag on it, okay? Looks kind of a little bit like Italy, if we're looking at a picture of Italy. The important thing to know about Croton Point is believe it or not, there are still pilots doing primary training at a Westchester County. When they're in to take off some landings, they get one in an hour. They come to Croton Point to do their basic maneuvers. This is kind of a practice area and as a rule, they're over 2,000 feet. Are there any instructors in the room? I don't see any hands going up. I know as an instructor quite often, obviously as instructors, we have the responsibility for looking outside the cockpit because quite often our clients at that early stage in their training, maybe they're only into it two or three hours, have not yet really learned to look out the window, but sometimes we get distracted by our clients and aren't doing the best possible job we could of looking out the window. Be aware that there are pilots around Croton Point that might be doing maneuvering flight, stalls, slow flight, steep turns, things of that nature and might not be looking for you, so be aware of that. Off in the distance, you should be able to see the Tappan Zee Bridge down to the south. So if you haven't started your descent by now, certainly you want to start that descent so that you arrive down at the Tappan Zee by 1,800 feet. We're going to be heading to the Jersey Shore, which is pointed out there south of the Tappan Zee. Okay? Over on our left, we find Singsing, right where that arrow is pointing. And Singsing does appear as a reporting point on our terminal area chart. You see the magenta flag there. This is what it looks like from approximately 2,000 feet. I'm not quite down to the Tappan Zee yet. And I will point out here, oh, I got to forget, I have to look down here. This is what I call the toaster. And if we all remember the history of Singsing and what went on there, that is where the electric chair is located. I believe you can still go there on tours and see it. The reason I mention it as the toaster is really a reminder to myself. Because from here on south, things are going to get very busy. It's really going to require me to look out the cockpit all the time. It's going to require me to tell my passengers to be quiet or go to pilot isolate. It means that if I don't do all of this stuff, I'm going to be toast as I continue south. So it's a little reminder to me that heads up from here on south, okay? The Tappan Zee bridge is our next reporting point. This is looking at it from 7,000 feet, okay? Aircraft are told to report the Tappan Zee at 2,000 feet. They make a turn off to the east and head to Westchester County. It isn't all that far away. Again, an awful lot of, depending upon the winds, an awful lot of corporate traffic coming across the Tappan Zee at 2,000, okay? Moving back up north to look at the Tappan Zee again, we can see the Jersey Shore. Now, I know the recommendation is to follow the Jersey Shore. However, the Jersey Shore really doesn't begin until about this point right there. So we don't have to fly all the way off to the shore. I just head track straight for that point where the arrow is showing, okay? The Alpine Towers, you certainly might be able to pick them up from now. If you've got good eyes, you can see them in the slide is our next reporting point just south of the Tappan Zee. Again, after I've crossed the Tappan Zee at 1,800, I'm continuing my descent down to 900 feet by the time I get to Alpine Towers. It's right where the class Bravo goes down to 1,500. If you haven't made 900, you certainly want to be below 1,500, okay? This is Alpine Towers, looking at it from the north, circled right there. It's very interesting. Alpine Towers was built back in the 30s for experimentation in developing FM radio. So its history goes way back. On 9-11, when the Trade Center came down, there were many, many antennas on top of the World Trade Center that were used for important navigation. All of that communication went down and they reverted back to using Alpine Tower for much of that communication to this day still used for that kind of communication. So although it's all the old technology, it's there still working. Amazing stuff, okay? As we continue south, we'll find Spite and Dival, okay? Dutch word dates back to when the Dutch actually settled New Amsterdam, the island that is now Manhattan. It is a river, it's where the Harlem River comes out and meets the Hudson River, okay? Very, very turbulent water. These are both estuaries, the tides affecting both of them. They had a lot of trouble in their boats as they came through that and they called it in spite of the devil. I sometimes think of it as Spite and Dival, spitting devil. Certainly in the air, this is where our turbulence tends to start because the Palisades, these cliffs, are just off to our right wing now. So Spite and Dival is about where your turbulence is going to expect to start. If you haven't cinched up by then, you certainly want to do it. As we continue southbound, less than a mile south of Spite and Dival, sometimes I hear pilots reporting the cloisters. It is an art museum built to resemble a Renaissance monastery. Not often used, however, pilots sometimes do it, particularly pilots who are very familiar with New York City and the Manhattan area. If you hear it reported, it's just south of Spite and Dival, about halfway between Spite and Dival and the George Washington Bridge, which is our next checkpoint and an important one. Here's the bridge, and we notice that the tower are 624 feet high and he's saying, oh my God, you just, you told me earlier on that we have to stay 1,000 feet above the tallest obstacle within a 2,000 foot radius of our aircraft. Do we not have a problem here? Well, yes, we do have a problem, but the answer to this, and I developed this program way back, originally started working on it in 2000, and I called both the New York FISDO and the New York Treycon to ask about it. What I found out basically are there are things called MMUs, which are basically memos of memorandum, memorandums of understanding. And the understanding here is that since this is a published exclusion area, they will wave the obstacle clearance issues that we have here. I have never heard of a pilot being busted for being less than 1,000 feet from the top of the towers. Somebody will say, well, what about if we go out into the center of the river and fly between the spans? Well, obviously, again, if everyone's doing that, it's not going to work, okay? If you're 900 feet, you're less than 500 feet above these towers. It can be a little daunting, a little intimidating, but that's really what we need to do. We also notice the overlying airspace is 1,100 feet and just off to the southeast lies Yankee Stadium, okay? The Yankee Stadium is the home of the Yankees. They have numerous ball games there. What does that TFR say about stadiums, sports stadiums? It's a standing TFR. Anyone familiar with what it is? Altitude is 3,000 feet and the radius? Three miles. Yes, that radius actually comes out across, I can't find my curve. Here we go, comes out across the river and we're obviously below the top of it. If you call a briefer, is he going to tell you about the ball game going on in Yankee Stadium? Not at all, not required to. So how are we going to find out? And to be quite honest, although I fly with a 396, you might have 396, 496, the GDL-69, G1000, whatever it might be, I have seen the Meadowlands come up, but I've yet to see Yankee Stadium come up on the GPS. You might read the sports pages, that's one way to do it. I personally hate baseball. I'm bored to tears by it. How do I find out? I call up the box office. I get this lady in the box office, say good afternoon to the Yankee Stadium. I say good afternoon ma'am. Are the Yankees playing a game tonight?  Oh, thank you so much ma'am. She's sitting there scratching her hand. What the heck? Okay, I know it's safe to go. I recommend that you do something similar, because pilots have been busted for this TFR. On the other hand, if you're in the class Bravo, told to come down the Bravo in 1500, do you have to worry about busting this TFR? And the answer is no you don't, okay? If you've been cleared down the river at 1500 feet, the issues of the TFR are no longer an issue that you have to worry about, okay? This is looking at the bridge from the north. Spite and Dival is off here over to the left. Again, it's about a mile and a half or so north of the bridge. Here we are crossing the bridge. This was taken on a Wednesday at about 10.30 in the morning. Look at the traffic there. Could we call this congested? I think we certainly could. Let's think about it though, if we're coming down on a Friday afternoon about 4.30, and this bridge is filled with vehicles, bumper to bumper, stop, and go. Now I think every one of us in this room is enamored of aviation to put it lightly. Every one of us is an addict of aviation. We love it. We live for it, okay?  And are they thinking nice thoughts about you? No, they're not. Not at all. And in fact, there are many of them that are clamoring to shut down the corridor. There are congressmen down there that are working to try to shut down the corridor, especially in light of what happened there this past winter. It really behooves us to be on our best behavior.  This is not the place to be a cowboy.  So we really have to be on our best behavior. And let this be a reminder to you about that, okay? Our next reporting point, a very important one, is North Hudson Park. It appears on both the terminal area chart and the helicopter route chart. Very difficult to find, unless you know where it is. One of the ways that I first found it is I realized there is this cylindrical condominium just on the east side of North Hudson Park. It's a group of baseball fields, a little lake out in the center of it. If any of you are into UFOs, or I learned about this on a discovery channel about UFOs, North Hudson Park is a point where there have been numerous UFO sightings, and I am not making this up. You want to make sure you're not one of them, okay? This is looking at the park. We get to see a little more of the ball fields and the lake, okay? This is looking at it from up at 7,000 feet, and we see the lake, we see the ball parks, we see the circular condominium, okay? Why does North Hudson Park become important? Well, the reason it does is on the other side is the 79th Street boat basin, seen here back down at 900 feet. Helicopters doing their scenic flights are typically northbound at 1,000 feet to the 79th Street boat basin. At the 79th Street boat basin, they make a 180 and start a descent back down into the 30th Street heliport. By your calling even just fixed wing, North Hudson Park, southbound 900, it gives these helicopter pilots a heads up that you are there and they will start looking for you and perhaps start their descent a little on the early side, okay? The intrepid. And unfortunately the intrepid is gone right now. They've taken it away for refurbishment. The plan is two years in reality. Who knows how long, okay? It does appear on both the helicopter route chart and the terminal area chart. It is a sea and space museum. Here it is. We're looking at it. The old aircraft carrier that saw all kinds of action in numerous wars from the Second World War right on up to Vietnam. Moored right beside it is the Concorde and as far as I know the Concorde is still there right now. Backing up a little bit. So we see the intrepid there. We've backed up just a little bit northbound. Just here to our south is the 30th Street heliport. So this reporting point again becomes very, very important. Let's talk about what these helicopters are going to be doing coming out of the 30th Street heliport, okay? I'm talking about the scenics. Initially they're going to take off, cross the river and climb to 1,000 feet traffic permitting. Traffic permitting keyword here. They'll continue south to something called Colgate which we'll see shortly. They then descend to 500 feet, cross Ellis Island, go to the Statue of Liberty. They will circle either typically in a clockwise direction or do a teardrop so passengers either side can see the statue, come back across the harbor, climb to 1,000 feet north to the 79th Street boat basin, make their 180 and descend back down into the 30th Street heliport, okay? If we report the intrepid, we're giving a heads up to these guys that were coming along. When I mentioned earlier on that I had 200 feet vertical and a quarter mile lateral from a helicopter, it was here because I reported the intrepid. He heard me, he saw me, he stopped his climb at 700 feet, I was at 900 feet and we stayed right there until he started his descent. He matched my airspeed. So it's an important reporting point. A problem is now the intrepid is gone. Trying to find the heliport here, you say, well I know there's a heliport but I can't see it, where is it, okay? It's right there, very difficult to see, just a little pier coming out. You'll notice behind it there's this kind of square area and that's part of Penn Station and the trains that come into Penn Station come out into this area, stop and then go back out. So that's an easy way to find it, okay? If you don't believe me looking down here, you can certainly see there's a hel... Oh no, here we go, hang on, stick with me. We can see a helicopter right there. We see numerous spots for landing spots. They even come out on this pier as well. There are a few more down here, okay? Very, very, very busy place on almost every day of the week, okay? So looking at it a little farther south actually from the Manhattan side, okay? The Lincoln Tunnel is just north of the 30th Street heliport. I've heard a lot of pilots calling it and obviously you can't see the tunnel if you're looking down through the water. It's because the water's too dirty. It's buried in the mud obviously, okay? I wasn't quite sure where the Lincoln Tunnel was but I did find out that it is this ramp that comes down here and comes around and comes in. So if you haven't found the intrepid, if you can find the Lincoln Tunnel, report the Lincoln Tunnel southbound, again for those pilots coming out of 30th Street heliport. There's the ramp right there. You can see a pretty good shape, okay? Chelsea Piers is very important northbound. We can't see it southbound. We'll talk about it more as we come back north. The Holland Tunnel, another one buried in the muck but if we look at our helicopter route chart, by the way this inset is on the back side of your terminal area chart as well, it says the ventilating towers for the Holland Tunnel. Obviously, we're not going to see the tunnel but we will see the ventilating towers. There's one right there. There's an identical one over on the Jersey side. I took this shot looking back southbound from the Manhattan side. Just goes, kind of dug the picture. Continuing southbound, Colgate. We'll hear Colgate an awful lot from the helicopter pilots and you kind of wonder where it is. Well, it's right there. What is Colgate, okay? Colgate is this clock right there and if you look closely, you can actually see that old red and white Colgate logo across the back of it. The story of this is this used to reside on top of a big tall building and many people in Manhattan would look over at this clock because they were numerically challenged as I am with these digitals to set their watches. They'd look over at that clock and they would set their watches according to the Colgate clock because it was always very accurate. They took the building down and took the clock away and there was a hue and cry from the residents of Manhattan to Colgate to say, please bring the clock back. We rely upon your clock and so they actually did. I can't believe that this very valuable piece of real estate sits there without a building on it and I don't know how long Colgate will reside there but there it resides. Why is it important? Because just south of this a couple miles lies Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, our next reporting point, okay? There's the statue and unfortunately this PowerPoint here doesn't work as well as my Mac so we're going to have a little difficulty reading everything but what I've circled here says a heavy concentration of air tour operations at 500 feet AGL in the vicinity of the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. Pilots should avoid overflying these areas and maintain appropriate lateral distance. This brings us back to 119.19. A thousand feet above our tallest obstacle within a 2,000 foot radius of our aircraft which does apply here at the Statue of Liberty. How are we going to fly at 900 feet if we have to fly near the statue or want to circle it, okay? Well, we also notice the Coltsnick radial 023 radial here off to the west and while I speak before we go to that while I speak about circling the statue, okay? My recommendation and my reasons for it when I come down to the statue I circle at 900 feet and I go counterclockwise, okay? The helicopters are down at 500 feet going clockwise. I'm going 900 feet counterclockwise. I'm going to make sure that I do not extend west of the Coltsnick 023 and if I come up right up to the eastern edge of it I will be more than 2,000 feet horizontally from the Statue of Liberty. By going counterclockwise as I come across the statue many people go no farther south than the statue and transition back up northbound it allows me as I come across to scan both for southbound traffic headed down to New Jersey and northbound traffic coming over towards Governor's Island whereas if I am going in a clockwise position quite possible I'm going to come in head on to another aircraft that is southbound I'm also going to have somewhat of a vision issue looking for traffic northbound. So again my recommendation is to go counterclockwise 900 feet. Now let's look at the panel okay we've dialed in to Coltsnick VOR 115.4 we've set our omnibaring selector to 023 the radial depicted on our chart and we see that our needle is deflected one dot. If we go down to our DME we see we're 22.6 miles that's got your right of beam the Statue of Liberty. My question is to you are you inside the exclusion area or are you inside Newark's airspace which at this point descends to 500 feet? You say well I got a one dot deflection on my needle I should be okay if you have said that unfortunately you are busted okay because remember we are basically southwest bound here and we have a from indication which means we've got reverse sensing so if you're very good at flying localizer back course approaches and know how to read that reverse sensing needle you're golden but for the majority of pilots rather than setting 023 set to 03 then if you've got that one dot deflection it means you're just about a quarter mile to the east of the 023 radial and you're just more than 2,000 feet offset from the Statue of Liberty better yet just stay over on the west on the east side of the statue watcher from the front I will point out there is a boardwalk down here for pedestrians that does pretty much define Newark's airspace which begins just to the west of that boardwalk okay here's looking at the statue from the south we can see Ellis Island in the background and way up here that's Colgate up there okay as we reach the Verrazano Bridge we have to be aware that there might be aircraft coming in to do the parkway visual into Kennedy they're going to be coming down to 2,000 feet prior to Rockaway Point okay if you want to go around the south end of Long Island you're going to have to drop down to 500 feet by the time you reach Rockaway Point and contact Kennedy Tower on 125.25 okay you'll get a squawk code and they will clear you through their airspace at 500 feet or put you just off shore of Coney Island and Jones Beach and all of that you'll continue up to Jones Beach they cut you loose and now you're free to go wherever you want to do wherever you want to go do what you ever want to do okay this is looking at the Verrazano from the north across New York Harbor this is out over at Rockaway Point looking back up towards the Verrazano we've got Coney Island over there at the arrow there's the Verrazano Bridge okay this is a Rockaway Point looking at Rockaway Point from 7,000 feet actually up over Sandy Hook aircraft doing that parkway visual come in this way and that's Kennedy right there looking at the Verrazano Bridge from south of the bridge looking back up towards the north towards the island of Manhattan here we are at 7,000 feet looking down at the Verrazano there's a 737 going into LaGuardia quite often they are told to either report the Verrazano or fly to the lady and they do come down at this point that 737 is at 3,000 feet so again wake turbulence issues RA issues are very very real down there okay looking north just north of the Verrazano up in the distance we see Governor's Island we see the Statue of Liberty and we have to be very very very sure that we go up the river to the left okay this is very important it was important before last December or January it's important now it was important back in 2000 when I did the very first presentation of this again here we can see Manhattan Island we can see the Staten Island ferry going into South Ferry again we want to go up the river to the left the river to the right is the East River and it is now closed and my suspicion is that it will become a permanent TFR I do not believe that that will ever get opened again unless you're a sea plane going into the East River sea plane base in which case you'd land to the north or you are a helicopter doing operations up in that area okay is it closed if you're on approach to okay very good very excellent question the question was is it closed if you're talking to New York approach to be quite honest if you're talking to typically at this point you'd be talking to LaGuardia Tower you would be passed to them they will clear you up the East River you'll be up at 1500 again traffic depending on what's going on in LaGuardia yes you can get up there but only in the Bravo you can't get up the East River in the exclusion area it is closed because you can't make the 180 and we've learned that unfortunately with the loss of a couple of lives very unfortunate okay here's looking at the Statue of Liberty from off at the east off in the distance is Newark we continue north to Colgate continuing north we get to the Holland Tunnel the Jersey side of the Holland Tunnel right down there we see they look identical these ventilating towers okay here's Chelsea Pierce Northmount Chelsea Pierce to me is one of the most important reporting points we have we notice this inflatable building it's actually used as a bunch of basketball courts inside that building here's a shot there's that inflatable building and just one half mile north is our heliport okay I always make it a point to report fixed wing or cardinal or whatever I might be Chelsea Pierce Northbound 900 feet because it gives the helicopter pilots a big heads up they're in and out of there like bees you ever watch bees going into a hive watch the heliport on a busy day and it'll look just like a beehive okay important reporting point the intrepid which unfortunately is no longer there for another two years lies just a mile north of that okay another shot of it we'll move ahead and a little time pressure's here the intrepid great shots of it you won't get to see it for the next two or three years a lot of people have the fantasy of landing on on the aircraft carrier at night okay some of them say well if I have an engine failure I can land there okay not it's gone now but if it were there even if it were I don't think there's a pilot in this room has that kind of short field landing skill and the arresting wires are gone they've been gone for years because people kept tripping over them so real quickly an issue if you have an engine failure where are you going to have to go and I got to give a little lecture here and say you know we accept the risks of flying we know that aviation is inherently dangerous and if you think otherwise you really need to have a talking to aviation is inherently dangerous but we manage the risks the risk here though means that if we have an engine failure if we land in a parking lot if we land in a ball field and there are several of them there are people playing in these things there are people going to their cars if we land on a road they're crowded with cars we might very well hurt someone now we accept that risk we're willing to accept the risk we're willing to manage the risk but do we have the right to expose anyone else to that risk and I would say that we don't which means if you lose an engine the only place you're really going to be able to put it is into the water you might very well survive your forced landing your ditching in the Hudson I know pilots who have I've personally talked to several of them okay but would you necessarily survive the water that's there that's another thing you have to think about okay the other thing is I talked about night landings day or night when's the best time to fly the route I think the most spectacular time I ever flew this was on a full moon night about two weeks after Christmas it was the most incredible flight I've ever had in my life the risks obviously go up at night as far as issues of forced landings and whatnot but to get back to a more serious answer when is the best time I would say the best time is 6 a.m. on New Year's Day because you're going to be only airplane in that airspace okay the worst time to fly it rather than saying the best time the worst time to fly it is on that beautiful Saturday that Cavu Saturday Cavu Sunday because not only is everyone else and their uncle and brother going to be out there in their skyhawk their archer their warrior etc etc etc but the lines for the helicopter rides are going to snake all the way out to the Empire State Building so the worst time to fly it is on that beautiful weekend day unfortunately unfortunately for some of us that's the only time we get to fly it okay continuing northbound we see north Hudson Park from south looking across to the west again there's that circular condominium okay 79th Street boat basin remember it's 79th Street boat basin are where those helicopters are going to be making their 180 and there is one right there 100 feet above me making that 180 degree turn okay continuing northbound this is really just a beam north Hudson Park we're up at 7,000 feet an aircraft that are going to do the river visual into LaGuardia come up at 2,000 feet until just north of Central Park make their turn and head on into LaGuardia okay these are real busy aircraft busy airspace Grant's Tomb we got a door prize for anyone who can name who's buried there I do hear pilots mention Grant's Tomb call it out as a reporting point it can be confused there's a building called the Soldiers and Sailors Monument just north of the 79th Street boat basin looks very very similar to Grant's Tomb be aware of that that they're not the same one of the ways to help you is Grant's Tomb is just north of Riverside Cathedral which you can see here Columbia University the buildings with all the green roofs just off to the southeast of Riverside Cathedral okay George Washington Bridge going northbound now we talked about the issues of being above the tower some people say well what about flying underneath the bridge wouldn't that be cool well I suppose if you're in a sea plane or an amphibious you could do that and say you were landing in the river pilots have done that but just to also give you a hint of how often and how much people watch pilots in this airspace I want to say it was four, five, six years ago numerous people called in and said they had seen an airplane fly under the bridge and crash into the river they initiated a search they were ready to start dredging the river this was at now about a day later after that numerous reportings of an airplane flying under the bridge and crashing in the river they got a call from a pilot he was up north at Lake Placid he said I believe the pilot I am the pilot that you are searching for I fly for fish and game for fish and wildlife I had a waiver to fly under the bridge I'm doing a migratory waterfowl census count I was allowed to be there okay but just to let you know people are watching you all the time again need to be on your best behavior Alpine towers as we continue northbound sing sing prison if you've done everything right you're not going to end up in this riverside resort okay we have to be really careful of that okay as I get north of the Tappanese typically I will call New York and ask for clearance into the Bravo if I'm continuing on north and continuing my way that way if you're uncomfortable with talking to New York then stay down until you're north stay down below 1,800 until you're north of the Tappanese and then it would be safe to continue your climb kind of wait till you're at sing sing prison okay important things to remember as we wrap this up okay keep your eyes open the most important piece of equipment that you have in your cockpit are your two eyeballs looking out the window keep a sterile cockpit okay we don't want to be distracted by our passengers we don't want to miss those important traffic advisory calls from other pilots because your passenger was busy talking to you keep your communication short sharp and simple so that everyone can hear you it's just as busy on the frequency as it is in the air okay turn on all your lights light up like Times Square on New Year's Eve okay maintain precise altitudes you know we know plus or minus 200 feet for most practical tests work to make it plus or minus 20 feet I defy it to really do that down there but if you have that as your goal you'll minimize those altitude incursions that could create havoc for the airlines okay maintain precise altitudes fly to the right side of the river Jersey side southbound Manhattan side northbound be sure to get a briefing find out are there any TFRs anything else you need to know okay remember that you can fly in the Bravo and I highly highly recommend it you're so much safer you'll see so much more just by going up to 1500 feet in the Bravo okay have fun because that is why you're there but most importantly be safe okay we've got a few minutes left I'm willing to take questions if we have any uh and I see one back here okay Vicki you missed one behind you go ahead sir Doug about two weeks ago I called flight service told them I was going down to Colorado and I asked if any TFRs for the stadium and they came back and said it was no time doubt starting at 12 o'clock the game and the note no one o'clock for the game and 12 o'clock for the no time wow do you know what flight service station it was I'm not sure did you ask him if he was a Yankee fan as wonderful that he did that as wonderful that he did that again though what I'm saying they might but they're not required to so so I have two questions one is if you want to fly at 1500 feet who do you talk to on the way down go from north to south call New York approach on 126.4 that's the westchester sector I'll actually set the stage up if I know I'm going in I'll call on whoever I am wherever I am to set the stage let them know that you're going down to fly the corridor and they'll ensure that you get the proper handoffs and give you the proper frequencies okay the next question is that going northbound I often turn right just north of the GW bridge to go up Long Island Sound I stay below you know the 1500 feet and then just go up there's a couple of towers that you can sight on the way up and then I get into Long Island Sound there actually is it's not a publish but if you go to carneyaviation.com it's a flying club and they have a couple of routes that are published that they publish a red route and a blue route that will take you across Yonkers and Riverdale in that area yes that can be done and it is safe and it is legal and and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it carney aviation would website would be the place to go to see that route this is more of a fun question who was the first pilot that flew by Grant Sturman where did he take off from I couldn't answer that I haven't a clue I'm sorry but pilots have been flying this for years and years and years and years where do you get the helicopter charts helicopter route charts can be gotten from sporties and many many of the FBOs certainly in the New York area as a result of my doing the seminar I'll carry them but sporties is where I got mine and they're not only for the New York area they're for I guess we're done great they're for many other areas as well many big cities have helicopter route charts yes sir Glenn Curtis flew by in 1910 answer his question oh let me hear that again so I could put that in my memory bank yeah Glenn Curtis Glenn Curtis yeah down the river 1910 fantastic my day has not been a waste I've learned something new Glenn Curtis 1910 thank you I guess I'm willing to answer if you guys are willing to hang out it's it's up to these guys your technique for the Yankee Stadium are there any other events besides ball games that go on there or is it just this TFR applies only to ball games I do not and I can easily be corrected here but I do not believe any other events go on in Yankee Stadium other than Yankee I take it back there are I mean there've been I think Billy Graham did a thing there once yes there can be I take that back yes there can be they're rare they're very rare but they do happen there are occasional events there


and before we do that I'd like the mic to go around for people to introduce themselves, remember your name and your company or your partners or wherever you come from. We can start at the fire, Mr. Gandalap they're going to introduce themselves. Hey everyone, my name is Shivkarangi Simani, I am a content creator. We are living in the Kukuja and our status is one of the same. We must re-imagine it. We are strong in it.


We have a few minutes to kind of, I don't even want to say wrap things up because we don't want to have an illusion that we even really, this is kind of the beginning or the stream and the conversation that we hope will find a lot of different ways to carry on. But in terms of the activities specifically tied to this community, this is the last session. And we have a couple of goals for this time. One is to offer a chance for people to just reflect how this work, whether this work is something that you're doing personally or in an organization or it's work that you've seen on stage and you've been an audience member, how this work has changed you. So some brief reflections on that. And then we also want to allow a little bit of time to talk about what the next steps are for your organizations or for this group, what ideas people have for bringing the conversation forward so that we can take action on those.  A whole other topic for conversation and another convening is that of leadership transitions. And as I think all of you or most of you know, we are certainly right in the midst of that at 10,000 Things. And Michelle, this is for last season with 10,000 Things. So if we decide to meet again next year, Michelle will probably not be the catalyst for that meeting. It will be of different people. And I am not standing here as the next artistic leader of 10,000 Things, but that this work is really the one inspired in large part by the people who have really moved it forward. It is not person-centric. The ideals of the work really live on in the communities we serve and the work that is created. And for 10,000 Things, that means that it is carried forward through the staff that evolves in the organization, the artists, and the communities. So that is that. So Michelle is here in the room with us, but she is going to be inhibited. So I just want to thank 10,000 Things for the convening of this. We don't have a service organization that really serves the specifics of what it is that we do. And sometimes we go to the larger service organization and we are ignored because we are funky, crazy people. And so what I come to these things for, part of the reason to create the Shakespeare Prison Conference was recharge the batteries.  And the reality is that you are not alone. There is a network of people that are across the country that are doing this work. And to be able to bring people into the room and be able to connect so that when we go home we know, oh, you know, I need a little talk. So to get a hold of somebody, to just get recharged via phone is really advantageous. So blessings for this convening and thank you all for coming. I'll pick you back on that. I just started a company and I used to think companies were something that sober adults did and I realized they just had to do it by myself and do it. But the generosity of people who have done it and my ability to reach out to them and for them to give me great advice, to tell them what worked, to be really supportive was quite beautiful. So if you're thinking about either your big behemoth organization, I mean a course change or yourself as an individual, there are a tremendous amount of generous people who will give you their time and their expertise and it will be life changing. So reach out, email me, email whoever, call in whoever. I mean it's really true, quite beautiful. Yes, it would be great if we were not a each group, but actually the meaning of one of us to perform theater was that, you know, it was an endemic in that to say that it's for everyone. And that's what, not so much takeaway because I think I knew it before, but to be in a room with people who were all talking about the same thing is that I would hope that all of you guys who work alongside the big company or all of the freelance directors and producers and artists wouldn't treat theater the exact same way. We should always be thinking about the audience, we should always be thinking about the story and then what should be, you know, I mean, I know it's not the reality that people can afford in terms of the audience, but thinking like as creators, this seems normal to me and I just hope that everyone who works with not only prisons can see that thought into everywhere else because I find it absurd that it's not the norm. So we want to share our reflection about a specific instance of the work changing and the work general that we'll be fine to of this work. The question was actually asked in the previous session, I'll launch this with a specific question. For those of you who have existing theaters who have brought this model in to an existing theater, how did your organization change as a result of that? Are there things to consider as a result of that? Just a quick time check, we're not going into really in-depth discussions, so these are kind of quick reflections on that. I think it would be nice to talk to you about this. I was brought last year to kick this, the professional concept of this work at Baltimore Center State and the thing that I learned real quickly being the new kid on the block of the head, that the institution wasn't fully prepared. I had three months to choose a play, to cast it, design it, and then hear it on the road, and build partnerships and all of that. And Kwame, as you all know, is impassioned about this work. And the idea I think was resonating in the institution, but it wasn't until the actual practical work of Calendar and all of the design teams and their calendars and all that, that was fully fleshed out. So the thing that I would encourage is, if you're at those larger institutions, or even at the smaller medium ones, make sure that you have that institutional buy-in, that everybody, that it's not just me in my little department that we're all doing this kind of work, it takes the full institution to be behind this work, and it's the gift that we're giving that expands beyond these four walls that we're in. And I think the more you can lay those seeds, plant those seeds in with the institution, to get everybody internally excited about this work, and the impact that it has on not only the community, but on the main stages and all of that, I think that will make the job a lot easier, not much easier. And then I think the bigger thing is that in a year, I've heard, being new at the board meetings and the internal meetings, I've heard the conversation shift already. From, you know, beginning of year ago to board members on, okay, so what is this? What? Okay, that sounds interesting to now this year. Okay, so who's going to fund that one tour? Or how can we expand it? Or I have an organization, Daniel, and I think this thing will work fantastically. So I think the biggest thing is that it's really changed for me as an artist to bring purpose to work, in a way that as an actor I always thought I could do on stage in a role, but to actually have the focus of the work be about bringing purpose and bringing, going out to the community and having that transformative aspect is starting to slowly but surely impact even the departments of the organization. Because all the design teams now are a part of the planning. We have them now. So that now they know, okay, this is a mobile unit. They're full of enthusiasm and excitement and ideas. So I think that purpose piece has always been important to me. It's this really gratifying, meaningful sort of process. All this direct is that a lot of people have been trying to transform that kind of larger, bigger organization, but for a small organization, this work has been transformative in an incredible amount of ways. Before we started this work, we were basically a non-equity company that did one show a year. And the reason we got into this work was during a specific planning process, we identified what we liked most about our audience for an outdoor summer shaker, because it was that we thought we did a really nice job bringing a really broad cross-section of the community together. And as we were looking at growing, we were probably not doing as good a job as we think we're doing. So I think we're really committed to this idea, and the idea came to launch the 10,000 Things Inspired Tour. And from that step, it really has transformed every aspect of our organization, starting from the placing of Michelle, passionately advocating, only to do this with the absolute best in your community. So when we started out, because we were funding this program from scratch, every single grant application I wrote with us, we do our summer shows with NOAA grant, and we're going to do this with at least four equity actors and four non-equity actors. So for a small company, it has almost doubled our budget just financially. It has transformed us and what we are. It also has transformed the way that artists in our community look at our company. We're at a company just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and we normally kind of struggle to kind of get the really great, exciting action to build up people when it comes down. And now we have actors going, how can I do this work with you all? And then is how that cycle is going back to the work we started with with our summer festival. After our first year of doing the tour, I was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. This is what real diversity in audience looks like. This is what really getting everyone in the room together was like, okay, how can we make that happen with our summer show? So now we're going to be, because in our both of our two tour shows, it's going to be directing our summer show this year, so we can try to infuse some of those lessons that we've learned back to our full, open, main stage offering. And then for me, I'm starting to think, okay, how can we get those, the groups that we started with needed to, how can we get them to come to our summer festival? So it's a very old yearhouse transform of larger organizations, for all those kind of smaller ones that's out here as well, so that it can be equally as transformative. And not just in topical ways, but in, you know, that sounds insane to say that an economic driver for a company is going to be something that has been zero-earned income, you know, but it actually has been for us. So, just when this is really selfish, just for this selfishly artistic standpoint, I'm such a better artist than I ever would have been had I not found this kind of work.  And it's, but it's feeding you in the best way because if you're not doing it for the views, you're not doing, there's no, you're just doing it for all those right reasons that you said you were doing it when you were 22. And no offense, oh my God, oh, there's so many young great volunteers in the room. You should do it for that reason. That's why you're doing it. That's what's lighting you right now. But then stay in it long enough so that you can't get over that. And then become, because I watch our actors, you know, who come through our doors and spend time with us, and I see them go in other stages. And damn it, they're better in those other stages. It's, so, we're sort of, we're affecting the audiences. We're also affecting the art. This is an incredible boot camp thing that doesn't often get to happen once you're out of grad school.  This is how I used to love to work. I thought working would be like this. And then I got out and then it became a machine. And I was so busy, I didn't have time to act. So, yeah, just selfishly, you know, it's made me just a better artist. And before I stop talking, I don't stop talking no. Because I feel like I've been in my wedding reception and when I looked at pictures, I was like, oh, they were there? I hadn't even talked to them.  And so I'm looking at faces I haven't even spoken to. So I put my address on the big whiteboard out there. So tonight, I'm like 6.30 on. Come by if you want. If you're still in town, there's nothing to do.  It would be really nice to see some more faces. So we drink and we drink a lot.  And we're doing a lot in native theater. We talk a lot that I was caught as a theater practice. But ultimately, actually, when it's happening a lot of the time, it's like you can't be sort of smalls with producing organizations or actually get a lot of women so you can't can't do. And actually, I think one of the most significant moments on this process for me was actually just in the dress rehearsal. At the very beginning, David was giving sort of like opening, like just talking to the audience, practicing sort of like, well, we were terming jokingly sort of like the prologue, right? And some people came in late and he turned to them and welcomed them. And like such a simple action of welcoming people who are late instead of shaming them is like such like a significant gesture that defines like what this work is versus like the limitations imposed by like so much of the traditional mainstream theater culture. And I think that that actually is also reflected in like all of these little things like someone, one of the actors mentioned, how like sometimes the traditional theater audiences are less willing to participate because there's actually like a fear that you're going to do something to embarrass them. And there were a couple of moments in which, you know, I gave a note to the beautiful generous actors who was playing J. Queese that, you know, if there happened to be in all the worlds of stage a soldier or a schoolboy to connect with to see if there was a way to work into this speech and because of the generosity of the audience, she was able to get an age-appropriate person, participant, volunteer for every single one out of seven ages of men. And like that generosity, like from her to them because also a lot of those aren't things that are actually that flattering to be said about. Like on the third one I was like, oh, she's still going. What can happen now? Because she had been like teaching the little kids how to play the accordion at the beginning, and then that was a safe space for them to, and so just the openness and generosity of the culture of this work instead of like these like rules of shame is just such a significant gift that like I'm so grateful. Like I don't think we'll be able to be undone in my consciousness now. There was, I mean, I've done so many things that Michelle has not had in years, but she said something once that I think was a woman in theater group that we were having and talked about her early experiences where people would get up and leave and then her realization that like life is more important than theater. Like what we do is important, but we can't, you know, you can't, like I was just having an argument with my roommate because she was like, we shouldn't allow late seating. I'm like, if you have a child and the babysitter doesn't cry, if you get stuck in traffic, well, that comes from an immense place of privilege, the whole no-lake seating. Like, life happens, and we shouldn't deny them art. Even as much of the art as they can take at the moment because they need to live their lives. Yeah, that's one of the things that we're needing, that Tom and I notice, and Colin, the composer, is that so much traditional way we do theater has an adversarial nature between the actor and the audience, right? They're kind of set up in conflict sometimes, and that disappeared right away. And also the, just, like, at the first place we performed at, we asked if they wanted to deserve snacks, and all the snacks they served were pre-wrapped. So just word to the wise if you ask that, if you ask for unwrapped. But that became part of the show, right? And they were hungry, and there were snacks there, and so they got the goddamn snacks and ate them. And it was annoying. It was annoying, and if you were in a traditional theater space, everyone else in the space would have been annoyed at those people. But since this was a community we formed instantaneously, it was part of the show, it was part of the time we spent together, and it was really lovely.  It just, it falls away pretty quick. John Powell from Disney, and for the people who are going to be here tomorrow, I'm going to actually talk about this piece I did, but to your point, I did a piece last July where I thought a lot about, like, the traditional theatrical experience and what's unappealing about it to me, and then I also thought about how sporting events are so popular and people are so engaged and they're so committed and they actually identify with these, you know, really wealthy athletes on a field that are so far away from them, but there's this, like, identification and I wanted to bring more of that to the arts, so I made my dance theater piece, I set it up as a sporting event, and we had snacks. We had a tailgate party and we had, like, my pirates and teens to be concessionaires and they passed out three cracker jacks and we had, you know, cotton candy and, like, the atmosphere was so festive and the idea of the other thing I've been really exploring my work is honest engagement as a continuum, so it's not just the pre-show and the post-show and it's also not just the, you know, community development workshop, but it's actually in, later in and through the performance in various ways, so it can be community members' voices from a workshop becoming part of the soundtrack or it can be, you know, your audience with pennants and flags on either side of this performance space it's set up like a racetrack cheering as you're in the middle of performing which was an incredible experience for myself and my collaborate and there was a point where I was really tired and I was like, you can tell it! I was like, thank you! I was like, I can't do it! It was just a really wonderful experience in so many ways and just all the, like, sort of all the rules that traditional Italy theater sets up, it's like we broke all of them in one shot. Not to get too effortless serial toward the model of traditional theater because there are inherent strengths in that as well but you speak to this kind of regenerative process that happens between the audiences and the artists and also just to do a little introduction you mentioned tomorrow so for those of you who are wondering and haven't heard, TCG is running a session tomorrow for some of the audience revolutions cohort so there will be some people who are staying over tomorrow participating in that conversation and if you don't know about the audience revolutions program of TCG, which really kind of, this conversation starts to get into a little bit you can certainly find a lot of great information about that program on the TCG website if you don't already know. And Gus and I are here, so. We're here! And you can speak with them, direct!  What's your name? That's William. Is it Polly? Polly. Polly. Polly. Polly on what Polly just said about a theater in some way aspiring to the condition of sport. Like seven years ago I did a few workshops with an English director named Tim Carroll who was the Associate Artistic Director when Mark Rylams was the Director at Shakespeare's Globe and the workshops he led were wonderful and one observation that he shared in his experience with us was that his very favorite performances were always ones where accidents happened when I had another plan on spacing the actor had to take it in. We're not taking it in. It's sort of like moving further in or got alienated by the response to it. And so he had some colleagues and he's a big soccer fan and so they developed their own model of acting theater where casting was determined on the night of the performance by audience members playing rock-paper-scissors on behalf of actors. So he had one way of embracing and pushing into the unpredictability of theater and I feel like for me one of the most thrilling things about witnessing 10,000 things and all of our Shakespeare doing our work at the company has been the very nature of the tours creates that unpredictability for you and really rewards actors who know how to be permeable and know how to really listen at the same time as they're speaking and so it's been really fun to see theater performances that come closer to the thrill of I don't mean to say sports are better than theater but I think what's exciting about them is you don't know what's going to happen and a mistake could be made like missing a goal is as exciting as making a goal and someone is... Yeah, so that's been a real thrill it's just how radically it embraces I'm going to take an opportunity to just acknowledge that a lot of the... what I hear in some of the themes of what people are saying is just the theme of generosity and some of that is generosity in the organization and some is in the creation process and some is in actually the technique of acting with a generous presence and I'm going to thread that theme of generosity into kind of the next half of this discussion which is how can we as a group and those who might join this group who should be in this group but are not right now how can we serve each other going forward beyond just this conversation I think everyone has experienced this over this weekend that conversations are very free flowing and that people that you've maybe never met before have things that they can offer you and are quite willing to offer here's what I did that worked and here's what I did that didn't work and maybe it'll work for you but it was problematic in this way for us so I think that there is a lot of willingness in this room and are there things that we can identify that we would like to take action on or that might be good to consider moving forward whether that goes to the place of another convening or a technological way to stay in touch or so, yeah and one of those things that helped for us was just getting some templates when we started to work so if there are any people who are interested in this kind of work you know, any kind of Google drive or like surveys or you know the public gave us their inventory lists for set and costume pieces, you know so when we were starting out as a small company to not have to reinvent those things from scratch made it so hugely helpful for us to build like this work and you know and it gave us gold shiny stars in the eyes of the prisons because of all things that were shared with us that were already approved into work so some kind of place where we could throw up those things other people could take and adapt and use if they would want to Does anybody have in terms of the idea of some kind of technological share Google drive or Dropbox kind of thing does anyone have a rent flag on that is there any reason that that wouldn't be a good idea? I think that within that shared documents like you talked about just opening it up like so I shared the documents at my session and kind of how I approached the partnership and just from that session I'm going to go back and edit and include and keep going and that's the greatness of this session here so putting those templates up there and then also giving us a space for like commenting on some of those templates if you see something or like you try them out and be like that was great this is a different kind of like this work for us so that within the documents perhaps there's a place for discussion we'll see how some of that is done Yeah the tendency I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying but I'm going to see and expand the tendency when you put something in writing and share it for it to be a static thing or a kind of answer and it loses its conversational quality so maybe a tendency to this is like agreeing to a spirit of this is not an answer or set in stone this is kind of where we're at in the moment with language around something and that commentary would not be taken personally or not be offered in a judgmental way but that you know there's room for us to learn from each other and things would be changed and specifically I'm speaking your own language I feel like a lot of you are articulating the way I've been learning for years with better words and I really appreciate that over the last couple of days too to figure out how to be more inclusive and responsive and what I've been feeling here I think that thing about a list of some kind of sharing a list of the shows that work and some that not to say that this one doesn't work you could say we tried it and we couldn't make it work and here's why we think it's not about the show it's not a literary criticism it's a because we know what this is like here's what the limitations are here's what the opportunities are and then sort of second part is there's been a lot of talk about new works and trying to find creative ways to bring new work to this you know other companies do it all the time because it's so damn expensive they co-commissioned pieces because it's so easy they all pay for the set and then it moves here and then we perform and then it moves around so we know what this space is like it's all kind of similar what about co-commissioning playwrights who can say oh my god all four companies do my show I have to say one thing like here I wanted you to offer to all of you she's wearing five plays for 10,000 things they all work great and she said she offered email to anyone you can fund with your audience that is because this is a really specific way some people are not going to share they work really well so that would be you know teaming up so that they know that because it is a different thing it's just a different kind of writing let's just take a one minute to praise Kira a little bit she is on a mailing as a playwright in residence for 10,000 things next year will be the last year of that so I don't want anyone to think that she's only a 10,000 things playwright and that will be right on the heels of our leadership transition with Michelle Kira will be moving on from 10,000 things and hopefully in 200 years I'm wondering just to take it one step farther has there ever been co-producing where you two are each other's networks it might be a way to expand after engagements and also just learn from each other in our home on our home ground that sounds like a good idea it makes me think of like something I said she's a dancer who was traveling around the country in 2015 and a lot of presidential candidates were traveling around the country telling their American story to audiences they were seeing everywhere they were going and she was kind of keeping an eye on that everywhere she was going and she felt like next needs to be artists who are doing this and doing it in communities who are wrestling with things the way the venue hosts and the partners are in the thick of the real stuff of America and getting somebody from Florida, California you can be in a touring company together and see each other's communities that really inspired me I struggle with that we have lots coming here but the sales here is great but someone in the legislative can't do the same we can't partner but there's others if anyone's interested I've got a great show for one after and one musician they love to do again just give me a call for producing sharing productions for anyone who works in ensemble based models the network of ensemble theaters is working on a digital tool that's not out yet but it will be so keep your eyes out for specifically that if you're a network and this network I have this resource for example I work in an ensemble based theater that has a space but what we don't have is we're looking for we can't seem to find lighting designers lately the earth theater company in ensemble actually has a lighting designer in residence that works frequently in ensemble but you might need that space that they have so they're trying to come up with a way to do that so if you guys aren't with that organization maybe check it out follow that development as they're building that what is that called again? I don't know if I'm saying that correctly if you want to you can ask him on the board but it's called connector and that's the very goal is to create alternative models which we're sharing if we just guess not quite on the fully co-producing we're sharing production models but the Shakespeare Theater Association has had some success with this of getting members of each other's theaters to go to other places that do work so like if one of the actors who has done a couple of our tour shows is doing the 10,000 things cast for a show so that we can learn from each other without that folio like oh crap we're at the finding grant we're at the entire production but to be able to have artists on one company one company makes us learn and then bring that back I'm travel to artist network because that would also apply to directors and designers so that we might transfer really well musicians all my kids are adults now as of two days ago so again I'm speaking more as someone who's really interested in the model living in the Twin Cities and as a long time audience member and a teacher of social change theater and I've been really interested to listen for partnership models that are and I know Michelle speaks about and other people have spoken about the play being the thing this is not social work and this is not about undoing systems that create incarcerated bodies but at the same time I felt like the work is really softening the work can enable people to think differently to undo a lot of destructive stereotypes and so I'm just curious about I've heard other people talk about modes of partnership with institutions that aren't just about hosting but about a kind of reciprocity around this is what we do as artists we create this space of softening and how it works with your agenda as an institution whether it's as a transitional space or a more restorative justice model and how are those partnerships enabled where does the work go and especially even some of the small of the best practices around how you enter into a space and help an audience to orient themselves to the play the creation of the art the artwork that's being in the art therapy all those best practices seem like it would be useful to have a space to share so do you think that an online platform would be a lively place for discussion about that or does that discussion want to take place in another format because that seems like there could be a pretty rich conversation that goes beyond the next 20 minutes how would that how would we burden that conversation the National Nuclea Network does a thing that is sometimes more successful than others but they'll have chats and they're usually I think monthly or bi-monthly where it's like messaging director and MPN chat and everybody they're multitasking and doing other things is sort of on a live chat with each other for an hour and we'll talk about some relevant thing that we're all dealing with it like having occasional room for discussions like this where it's an hour or so open forum to just be like let's just talk about partnerships today what are some good partnerships that people have going right now what are some challenges that could be something that could work it works to vary so you're saying the MPN chats as a model not as something necessarily no, yeah, as a model but might be something we could adopt yeah, I didn't mean to cut off people do have people do want to respond to that question about partnering with community organizations it wasn't necessarily a conversation to have now but an idea of is there a forum or something I actually touched on that conversation yesterday at the touring great job yeah, for instance I'm really interested to know too about organizations who might be partnering with community organizations for office space or sharing having a desk and I know Dell Shakes has their partnership with Delaware and that's a conversation that depends beyond the scope of our time but just hearing about people who are doing some back office sharing or partnering with community organizations in that way that's a very specific way of partnering so other aspects as well I'm full of thought but it would be interesting to continue the conversation about not just talking internally but taking what is happening in these places and making sure it's known about externally and I know and I think there's a continuation of what's happened with what's happening here and this work happening in places that is valuable to get out into the general of theater consciousness and the general public consciousness I have no idea what that looks like or how we capture some of the stories that are happening in these places but I think there's something we should think about intentionally about capturing that and so on after the first two shakes of the Ripples conferences we created a close Facebook group as simple as that and just added an interesting number and that's just become a repository for information and the data that I sent out to you guys yesterday that you posted it there months ago but I knew it was there and when there are stories about programs whether it's an active gang or the O-Globe or the L-Shakes tour or whatever like those are all highlighted and then they become topics for them as well like hey I'm having a problem with this funder because they want X, Y and Z in these metrics I don't know how to do this and people just pipe in so it's very, I mean simple, quite simple, quite simple Yeah, other thoughts about somebody asked me today about mentorship Michelle has been a mentor for other organizations looking to start this model and also to directors who are looking to direct in this model as Michelle moves in on to the next phase of her activities and her life I imagine I'm thinking about how that kind of mentorship in 10,000 Things will shift and what our staff can offer in the way of mentorship as well so I haven't answered to that yet but certainly somebody asked me about mentorship and I I imagine that people can say how much capacity they have in their organizations to offer mentorship to upcoming practitioners as well Is that of interest to people on one side of the coin or the other? Looking at how to further our kind of mentorship model or how to make those opportunities known and shared amongst us kind of Things that would be helpful as practitioners that this group could be of service I would personally love to know if people have successes so a platform perhaps would be good for a platform who knows but when you have a great show share it with us and let us know how that impacted your artists, how it impacted the community let's look each other up as much as possible to another success We got a, just as an example of that Michelle, maybe one of you would probably speak more articulate to this but when we got the the it's not a quote, it's a whole letter from the inmate in San Francisco how it shakes, right? Rebecca talked a little bit about this experience of it was not just one person but it was a friendship amongst two women and one of the prisoners and we got a letter out, do you want to speak to it Eric? No, I was just going to say that Rebecca's story the other day which I think everyone was in the room for or half of you were in the room, what wrong you did She spoke about one of the women at FCI Dublin where we were performing a tempest where we were moved by Miranda and sort of in a way was Miranda in a proxy for her and she did not see Ken Marion we received a letter the next year a handwritten letter with no return address actually that's not who said FCI Dublin on the envelope but it was from this woman's friend who was sitting next to her watching the show and she wrote to inform us that her friend who had had this experience had been pardoned by Obama was one of the last part of the issue and so she was not living in Florida and that this other person who was writing this was about to be released three months later and it spoke to the impact of the work not only on the person that she was writing about but how that impacted kind of their friendship and their process together and she said that a year later she was writing about her friend's experience and this was so moving and spoke so movingly about the work that we ended up printing off that response and sharing it with our patrons and even talking about it with our funders and saying this is not our work but this is the same model of this work and we get responses like this as well as well almost every performance we perform for we get those kind of but this is a particularly eloquent example of that response that's what's sharing and if it's not from our organization along with sharing successes the best way I learn is failing forward with the successes I want to know what failures did you make along the way how are we failing forward learning from our mistake learning from our mistake because I failed an awful lot putting this showed the teacher of me rebelled against the failing so I'm just going to amend and add onto that challenges but yeah I mean it's great but you know if we do we all I've tried to reclaim the idea that failure is a part of the process and I have to fail forward we're separately on a kind of nice space of silence and I think a lot of people feel saturated so again I would gratitude again to everyone who is taking this work and moving this work out into communities who brought and are walking into the rooms that we've shared over the past weekend do you want to say anything else? Well, I was so loved with fear of failure I was getting posted on howlgown now so if you missed a session and you want to share a session with someone we'll email you all the notes that are awesome note papers have been taken can I now start and see where that goes and start sharing things and then we can move into some other things that we want to but that can be a simple idea that started but I feel I really do feel that you are all in your spirits and thank you all so much for the work that you do it really is making a difference in all kinds of ways that none of us ever anticipated so thank you very much and in all of my years of doing theater I've not come across a more generous soul than you and all of the theaters in this room who are doing this work already you are at the drop of a hat to share everything that you have learned to not be possessive of it or protective of it but to say take this and use it we could never have done what we did without your generosity and as we are all gathered here today it felt incredibly wrong because we didn't just say thank you