Okay, good morning. If everyone can settle down. We'll begin. So we completed the poetic books last week. So we had five poetic books. All of them are completed. So this week we will start the prophetic books. So hopefully today we will be able to cover Isaiah and Jeremiah. And we have five books, which are called the major prophets. And then you have 12 prophetic books, which are called minor prophets. When it says major prophets, it's not saying in any way that the other prophets are less important. The term is only used because these five prophetic books are lendier. They have more detail. So in that sense, they are called major prophets. And the other 12 prophetic books are shorter in size. So they're called minor prophets. So it's not talking about the importance of the prophet. It just is referring to the size of the book which they have written. So today and the next class, we will look at the major prophetic books, and then we will move into the minor prophets. So we will begin with the book of Isaiah. Just a little background regarding Isaiah. Most of us are familiar. When Isaiah starts his ministry, we get to know about that in Isaiah chapter six, where it talks about how a certain king dies. And in the year of that king's death, Isaiah's ministry begins. So in the year of the death of King Uzziah, in that year, which is approximately around 740 BC, is when Isaiah starts his prophetic ministry and he does his prophetic ministry for almost 40 years. So during his prophetic ministry, you have three different kings ruling in the southern kingdom. You have Jotam, Ahas and Hezekiah.  Just for us to know a bit about the structure of the book of Isaiah, the first 39 chapters talk about the judgment which will come upon the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom. So he gives a series of prophecies of judgment against both the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom. And just as he prophesied in 722 BC, while his ministry is still going on. So in 722 BC, just as he prophesied, the northern kingdom is judged. The Assyrians come, they defeat the northern kingdom, they take away almost all the people as slaves, they place them in different countries in other places. And then the people who have been taken away, they get into idol worship, they become just like all the other nations where they have been placed. And so now there is no record left of what happened to those 10 northern tribes. So that judgment comes upon them just as Isaiah had prophesied. As for the southern kingdom, the judgment comes upon them about 100 years after the death of Isaiah. So it doesn't happen during his lifetime. So in the first 39 chapters, Isaiah is basically talking about the judgment which will come upon the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom. The next main section would be chapters 40 to 55. In these chapters, he basically prophesies how one day the exiles will be allowed to return back to Jerusalem. So the prophecies offer more hope. Whereas the first section was mainly about judgment and the anger of God. The second section, chapters 40 to 55, offers hope to the people. He prophesies about how the Lord will help them to come back to their land, how he will once more restore them, how they will once again be able to rebuild their towns and cities. And so he comforts them in chapters 40 to 55. The last section is chapters 56 to 66, where Isaiah starts talking about the end times. He talks about how there will be a new heaven and a new earth established. So he talks about end time events in this final portion. The main goal is to help the Israelites see that even though judgment is going to be coming upon them, there is still hope. At the end of it all, at the end of all history, God will establish justice. There will be a remnant of Israel which will be restored. And then at that time, you know, God's blessing will rest upon the nation of Israel once more. The king who will become the ruler of this land, he will be the Messiah and he will rule forever and ever. So these words of assurance about their, even about their distant future is given in this last section. So these are the three main sections of the book of Isaiah. Now among the modern scholars, this book of Isaiah has generated a lot of debate. They seem to be quite happy with the other prophetic books, but when it comes to the book of Isaiah, there's a lot of debate that goes on simply because of two specific Bible passages which are there in the book of Isaiah. So we will look at that shortly, but just before we go into the details of that, let's look at some background information regarding Isaiah himself. We get to know that Isaiah is probably from a very influential family because of the writing style which he uses in the book of Isaiah, the kind of vocabulary that he uses, the kind of writing style that he uses in a very academic refined kind of style. We get to know that this must be a highly educated man. So maybe he's from one of the noble families, maybe he's from one of the aristocratic families, which means he also would have personally known many people in the royal court. So he's somebody of that stature. So that is the background regarding Isaiah. But we see that the people in the royal court are not really happy with him because he's speaking words of judgment against the nation. He's not offering comforting words. He's not encouraging them in their sinfulness, rather he's criticizing them and condemning them and conveying the word of the Lord that they will be judged. What is that feedback sound? I hope it doesn't come back. So yeah, so there was a lot of political tension in the time of Isaiah because the Assyrian king, Tiglath Pileser is his name, a person named Tiglath Pileser III. This Assyrian king was getting very, very powerful during that time. He was waging war with different nations. Wherever he wages a war, he's the one who gets the victory. So the nations in this entire Mediterranean region were getting afraid. They were worried about their future. In the same way, even the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom were getting worried about what will happen if Assyria comes and attacks. So in that tense situation, the nations which are living in this region, they began to enter into political partnerships with one another. The idea is that if Assyria comes and attacks one of them, they will all get together and with their joint armies, they will fight against this Assyrian king so that the Assyrian king can be defeated. So they start forming political alliances. But Isaiah says, do not do that. These are pagan nations. You do not need to enter into a partnership with them. Instead, repent of your sins, turn to the Lord. The Lord will protect you. He will grant you victory against this Assyrian king. You do not need to be afraid of him is the assurance which Isaiah gives, but the royal court is not interested. I think the main problem was that they did not want to give up their sins. They know that the Lord will help, but for the Lord to help, they would have to first of all give up their sinful lifestyles, start establishing justice and righteousness, not put all the money in their pockets, the way we see even the people in power doing today. So they were not willing to give up all the privileges of corruption and evil and wickedness. Rather, they wanted to perform, to get into alliances with these other nations, so that if Assyria attacks, they will get human help from others. They did not want the Lord's help. They did not want to turn away from this sinfulness. So the relationship between Isaiah and the royal court was not very friendly. He was not very well liked in the royal circles. So, Isaiah, when his ministry was going on, at the same time, you also have some of the other familiar prophets doing their ministry in different portions of this, you know, Israelite, Northern and Southern kingdoms, who are the other prophets during his during his lifetime, Hosea, Micah and Nahum. These prophets were also doing their ministry around the same time. So Isaiah, Hosea, Micah, Nahum, these are all contemporaries. They all lived approximately during the same timeline. One thing about Isaiah, his wife was also a prophetess. So both husband and wife were given a prophetic ministry. We get to know about this in Isaiah chapter 8 verse 3, where we are told that his wife also was a prophetess. Now, according to Jewish tradition, they say that Isaiah probably got killed by Manasseh. Manasseh is the son of Hezekiah. So if you remember, like I just mentioned a little while ago, Isaiah was doing his prophetic ministry during the reign of three kings, Dotham and Ahas and Hezekiah. So Hezekiah's son, Manasseh, who was probably one of the most evil kings that ever ruled in Israel, because this was a man who used to offer his own children as sacrifices to the pagan gods.  And in fact, he is somebody who genuinely repents later on and turns back to God. So it's an amazing story. Someone who is so evil, he genuinely repents and God forgives him. So that's actually a beautiful story. But yeah, so in his early, in the early days of his reign, according to Jewish tradition, they say that he actually cuts Isaiah into two parts. That's basically how Isaiah dies. So that is Jewish tradition. It's not mentioned in the Bible. It's not mentioned in any of the secular historical records either. But according to Jewish tradition, that's basically how Isaiah probably died. Because in Hebrews 1137, there's a reference about how some people were cut in half. So they say that that particular portion in Hebrews 1137 is probably referring to Isaiah, who was killed in this terrible manner by Manasseh. Now, we don't really know whether that was a historical fact or not. Isaiah is called the Evangelical Prophet. He's given this title because he gives a lot of messianic prophecies. A lot of prophecies he makes regarding the Messiah. Would any of us be familiar with at least one chapter from the book of Isaiah which talks about the Messiah? Any familiar chapter? Isaiah chapter seven is one of them. The one which talks about healing and the Messiah taking our infirmities upon himself. That would be Isaiah 53. So that's like very, very popular, very, very familiar. So he gives a lot of messianic prophecies. Now, the main problem, the debate which people have created in modern times, nobody in the earlier ever even thought about such silly things. But these scholars in the modern age, they began to come up with a theory that maybe Isaiah didn't really write the entire book of Isaiah, all the 66 chapters. They say maybe Isaiah one man didn't write all the 66 chapters. Three different people must have written it. The first section, of course, chapters 1 to 39 must have been written by Isaiah. But the next section which would be 40 to 54, they say maybe some other person wrote it after the people came back from the exile. And why do they say this? They have a problem with these two Bible passages which are mentioned. Maybe we can read out both the verses. Isaiah 44 verse 28, if someone could read out. Isaiah 44 verse 28, 44, 28. Yeah, even if anyone online is ready with their Bible and is willing to read. Isaiah 44, 28. That's safe of service. He is my shepherd and shall perform all my pleasure. Even saying to Jerusalem, thou shall be built and to the temple. Thy foundation shall be laid. And then Isaiah 45, 1, Isaiah 45, 1. Thus says the Lord, please anoint it to Cyrus whose right hand I have held to subdue nations before him and lose the armor of kings to open before him the double dose so that the gates will not be shut. Now in these two specific verses, it mentions a person named Cyrus very, very specifically. And it says that through this particular king, Israel will once again be delivered. Israel will be able to come back to their homeland because of the help of this particular king named Cyrus. So God says, I will anoint this man and appoint him as my representative to bring my people back from exile. Now the thing is when these chapters 44 and 45 were written, Cyrus did not exist. He had not been born. His parents also were not born because you see Cyrus came into existence. He was born 200 years after these verses were written. And so people, these modern scholars are unable to believe that and they say, Oh, how could Isaiah have known that about a man's specific name and that he is going to be the king through whom the Israelites will be able to come back to their homeland? How could he possibly have knowledge like that? No, no, somebody else must have written chapter 40 onwards. And so they came up with this theory that chapter 40 to 54 was probably written by a different person. And that person must have lived after the people came back from exile and they already knew about Cyrus name. Then somebody must have sat down and written down these chapters is the theory which they come up with. And then some people go to the extreme extent of saying the third portion was written by a third man. So it's not just enough for them to say that two different people have written the book of Isaiah. They go to the extent of saying three different people have written the book of Isaiah. But if you look at the New Testament, it is clearly established in the New Testament that one single Isaiah wrote all of it. God is quite capable of giving prophecies which are about something which will occur 200 years later. God is quite capable of giving the exact name of the king through whom the deliverance will take place. God is quite capable of knowing these details and conveying them to his prophet. So it's very silly. We don't really need to say that three different people have written the book of Isaiah. Just like it says in the New Testament, one single Isaiah wrote the entire 66 books. Let's look at what John has to say in the New Testament regarding this. So if someone could read out for us John chapter 12 versus 38 to 41. John 12, 38 to 41. John chapter 12 was 38. 38 to 41 was 38. That the word of Isaiah, the prophet, might be fulfilled which he spoke. Lord who has believed our report and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed was 39. Therefore, they could not believe because Isaiah said again verse 40, he has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn so that I should kill them. Verse 41, these things Isaiah said when he saw his glory and spoke of him. So Isaiah says these things when he saw Jesus glory and spoke about him. So according to John, he very plainly takes two different quotations from the book of Isaiah and he quotes them as saying that Isaiah wrote both of these quotations. So the first quotation which is found in verse 38 where it says Lord who has believed our message, that first quotation is taken from Isaiah chapter 53, the last portion of the book of Isaiah. The next quotation which John uses which is in verse 40, he has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, that quotation is taken from the beginning of the book of Isaiah in Isaiah chapter 6. So John is very clearly established that the same person, the same Isaiah wrote both of these quotations. So it's not three different writers who wrote the book of Isaiah, one single Isaiah wrote all of it and he talked about future events in exact detail and what he prophesied came to pass, it actually happened in history. Why? Because our God knows the future. So another thing that we see is that and I mean it's just an interesting point. Isaiah 62 verse 6 if someone could read out, Isaiah 62 verse 6. Isaiah 62 verse 6, I have said watchmen on your walls, oh Jerusalem, they shall never hold their peace day or night. You who make mention of the Lord, do not keep silent. So at the end of the book of Isaiah in Isaiah chapter 62 verse 6, Isaiah the writer is talking about the walls of Jerusalem and he is saying, you know what, I have posted a watchman on your, I have posted watchmen on your walls. Now if somebody had written these chapters after coming back from the exile, they would definitely not talk about the walls of Jerusalem because the walls of Jerusalem had been destroyed by that time and for the walls to be rebuilt, it took 83 years. So if somebody wrote it in that time period, there are no walls to talk about. No watchmen can stand on the walls because there are no walls first of all. So it shows that Isaiah himself wrote even this concluding chapters and when he wrote it, the walls were still standing. It's not some person who came back from the exile and wrote it. In the same way, if you look at Isaiah 40 verse 9, it talks about the towns of Judah. Now, all those towns got destroyed, you know, by Nebuchadnezzar. So when the exiles came back, those towns were no longer there. But here in Isaiah 49, Isaiah the writer is clearly talking about those towns like as if they are still very much existing. So these things were all written by one single Isaiah, not by some future person. Alright, so there are many, many other evidences and proof which we can give to prove that one single Isaiah has written this particular book. So when you're looking at commentaries and in some commentaries, you'll see terms like Deotero Isaiah, Trito Isaiah, they're basically talking about the second Isaiah and the third Isaiah, the second guy who wrote and the third person who wrote, you know, so they use those terms. When you see those terms, you just think in your mind, oh, this scholar doesn't know enough. So you just ignore that because we know from scripture that one single Isaiah wrote it. There was no Deotero, second Isaiah, there was no Trito, third Isaiah, one single Isaiah has written this entire book. Okay, so moving on to some, you know, important details that we can find in this, oh, there are many important details, no time for all of that. Let's just touch upon whatever we can look at. So Isaiah right from the beginning, from the very first chapter, he starts talking about the judgment which will come upon the land. Maybe we can just look at one single verse Isaiah chapter one, right in chapter one verse seven, he talks about judgment which is going to come. If someone can read out, Isaiah one verse seven.  Okay, so this is what is going to happen to this nation and to the cities in this nation. So right in the beginning from chapter one itself, Isaiah starts prophesying judgment against the both the kingdoms, northern Israel as well as the southern kingdom, he starts prophesying. But he also gives them hope. He talks about how God will restore, how God will show kindness. So even in the first chapter, there are some words of kindness, you know, which talk about the compassion of the Lord. So in first chapter itself, if someone can read out the verses 25 and 26, chapter one verses 25 and 26.  I will restore your judges as at the first and your counselors as at the beginning. Afterward, you shall be called the city of righteousness, the faithful city. So even though he is prophesying and saying the Lord will destroy your cities, he gives them the assurance that one day, one day Jerusalem will be restored. And in fact, at that time the Jerusalem will be called the city of righteousness and he uses the imagery of silver. The same way in those days, they would take the, you know, the silver Smith will take this impure silver. He will put it in the fire until all the impurities which are there in that silver get burnt and only the pure silver is left and he removes that out of the fire and he makes beautiful vessels and jewelry out of that. So the Lord says in the same way, you know, I'm putting you through the fire of judgment, but when you go through this terrible judgment, there are going to be people among you who will get purified, who will repent, who will come back to me and you will be like pure silver.  So these are words of assurance that Isaiah speaks. So you have words of judgment being spoken, but there's also hope and comfort being spoken. We always see this in the Old Testament. God is very angry and displeased with the sin of the people, with the rebelliousness and hardness of heart. But at the same time, he feels compassion for them. He cares about them. He does not enjoy punishing them. He wants to restore them. So again and again, he cries out to them and says, why don't you come back to me?  I don't want to punish you. So why don't you listen to me and repent and come back? Again and again, God makes this offer to the people.  So the name which God asks to be given to the child, which are the eldest son who is born, God chooses the name Sheyar Yashub. Now in the Hebrew language, the term Sheyar Yashub, it basically means a remnant will return. So even though God is going to send them into exile, God is going to punish them. One remnant, which is like pure silver, they will come back to the land. God will restore. So even though he is speaking judgment upon them, he is also giving them this name, this title, Sheyar Yashub to this child, to this newborn baby, so that every time people look at this little child who is growing up, they'll be reminded that, oh, God is one day going to show mercy upon us. So it's quite interesting as this child would be growing up. Now the parents would call out his name. So every time someone calls out and says, hey, Sheyar Yashub, come here. What are they saying? They're saying one day a remnant will return. One day we will experience the mercy of God. So this great hope contained in the name which is given to this child who is born to Isaiah. So during that time, while Isaiah's ministry was going on, Ahaz is the king of Judah at that time. And at that time, like I told you, everyone is very, very worried about Tiglath Pelesir, the third Syrian king who is getting more and more powerful. They are worried that he's going to come and attack. And so at that time, two kings decide that they will enter into a political alliance. Now these are all details which you find in chapters seven, seven, eight. So the king of Syria and the king of Israel. Now you've got to remember back at that time, Assyria and Syria were two different places. So the Assyrian king is the one who is becoming powerful. But the Syrian king is a different person. He basically rules from Damascus. So these two kings, king of Syria and the king of northern kingdom, they both decide to enter into a partnership to protect themselves against this Tiglath Pelesir who's getting more and more powerful. So if there is a war, the idea is that they'll come and help each other to fight against this king. So they come to Ahas, the king of the southern kingdom and they say, would you also like to join us in this partnership? And Ahas is a bit scared because he knows Tiglath Pelesir is very powerful. So he thinks in his mind, I think it would be better for me to make some kind of deal with the Assyrian king himself directly rather than making a partnership with these people. And so with that intention, he says, no, I don't want to enter into a partnership with you people. So the Syrian king and the northern kingdom king, they are very angry that this king Ahas has refused to get into a partnership with them. And so they say, who is this fellow to refuse the partnership? Let's go attack him. So now you basically have two armies which are getting ready to come and attack Judah. And so King Ahas is very, very afraid at this time. And the Lord in his love and kindness and compassion sends a word of prophecy to him. And this is what the Lord says. Maybe we can read out Isaiah chapter seven versus three to six. Yeah, Isaiah chapter seven versus three to six. Isaiah chapter seven verse three, then the Lord said to Isaiah, go out now to meet Ahas, you and share, share your son at the end of the a critic from the upper pool on the highway to the fuller field. Verse four, and say to him, take heed and be quiet. Do not fear or be faint, faint hearted for these two stops of smoking, firebrands for the fierce anger of resin and Syria.  And let us make a gap in its wall for ourselves and set a thing over them. The son of table was seven. No, no, that's all right. So we see over here that God sends a message through Isaiah.  You know, the boy who has been given the name Shia Ryashu, take him along with him, both of you go over there and you assure the king and you tell him, don't worry about these two kings who are coming and attacking. You know what they are like? This is the description that God uses to describe them. He says, they are like two smoking stubs of firewood.  But what happens when the flame goes out? All you have is some red sparks which are still left in the wood. And after a few minutes, even those red sparks die out. And what is left?  So God says, right now they may be looking very ferocious to you like, you know, with all the red sparks and all that. But you know what? They are like two small drink stubs. In a few minutes, the sparks will go out and all that will be left is some smoke. So you don't have to worry about them at all. I will take care of you. I will protect you. And the Lord says, because I am going to do this for you, ask me for a sign. I will give you a sign and I'll prove to you that I will do this for you. But Aha is in his mind, he has already made up his mind. He has decided that he is going to get into a, he is going to make some kind of deal with the, with Tiglath Pelesir if he comes. And so he does, he's not really interested in any sign from the Lord. He's already made up his mind that he's going to take help from the Assyrian king directly. So he says, no, no, no, I don't want any sign. You know, it's all right. And then God gets really angry. And this is what the Lord says in verse 13. Isaiah chapter 7 verse 13. Then Isaiah said, here now your house of David, is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? Why are you acting in this manner? God is offering you a sign and you say, no, you're acting very righteous and saying, Oh, no, no, no, I don't want to test the Lord. But actually in your heart, you have something else in mind. You have decided that you're going to make a deal with the Assyrian king. You don't want God's help. And so God says, whether you like it or not, I am going to give you a sign. Only thing, the only thing the sign will not help you. But the point is, God says, I will give you a sign that these two kings will be destroyed. And this is the sign which God gives to King Ahas. So if we can have someone read out these very, very famous verses, so Isaiah chapter 7 verses 14 to 17. Isaiah 7, 14 to 17. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel. Curt and honey, he shall hate that he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both the kings.  Days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah. Alright, so the Lord says, this is the sign which I'm going to give you. A young lady, she's going to give birth to a child. And the child will be given the name Emmanuel.  I will destroy them. In those days, a child would start being given some solid food, maybe around the age of two and a half or three years of age. So what God is basically saying is before this child was going to be born, before he is around two and a half or three years old, before that time these two kings will be gone. You don't even have to worry about them. It's what the Lord says and exactly just as the, you know, God prophesies what, you know, what God's promise takes place. So you have both the king of the northern kingdom and also the Syrian king. You know, they both are removed from the picture. You know, God does not allow Judah to be attacked in any way. So this verse becomes very significant for us because in Matthew, in the book of Matthew, this particular verse is used to talk about the Messiah. So maybe let's look at that. Matthew chapter 1 verses 22 to 24. Matthew 1, 22 to 24. Matthew chapter 1 verse 20. Shall I read it? Matthew 1, 22 to 24. Okay. Matthew chapter 1 verse 22. So all these was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet saying, verse 23.  Verse 24. Then Joseph being arose from sleep did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife. Okay. So in the New Testament, this particular verse is used to talk about the Messiah. So there's some interesting things that we need to understand about these particular verse. When the prophecy was originally given to King Ahas, it talks about how the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and over there the word, the Hebrew word that is used over there is the word Hebrew word Alma, ALMAH. So that word Alma, it can refer to a married young lady or it can refer to an unmarried young lady who has never been with a man. Okay. So it can refer to, it can, it's talking about age. It's just talking about a young lady who will give birth to a child. So when the prophecy was originally given, it was talking about a young lady who's probably married, she's going to have a child and the child will be given the name Emmanuel. But when this particular scripture was getting translated into the Greek language, you know, the Greek Septuagint was composed maybe approximately around 300 years before the, you know, coming of Jesus. So at that time, when the translators were translating this particular verse into the Greek language, they did not just use a normal word for young lady, they chose to use the Greek word Parthenos. Parthenos is not just talking about a young lady. Parthenos is very specifically talking about a virgin who has never been with a man, very, very specific. See, basically those translators are trying to use a word which would not make any scientific sense. They are using a word which is talking about a lady who has never been with a man and they're saying she will conceive and her son will be called Emmanuel. The Lord caused the translators not to use the general word for young lady, but rather the very specific word Parthenos, which will talk about a person who has never been with a man and that person will conceive and give birth to a child who will be called Emmanuel. So we learn in the New Testament times that this prophecy which was given to Ahas basically had two layers. The first layer was fulfilled when some young lady who was there in those days, she gave birth to a child. The child was called Emmanuel. Some people say that this was actually talking about Isaiah's wife. Now we don't have any proof of that, but some young lady gave birth to a child who was given the name Emmanuel. The second layer was fulfilled in New Testament times when it was a virgin who gave birth to a child. So like that we see many prophecies in the Old Testament where there are many layers to the prophecy. The first layer gets fulfilled during the time when the prophecy was first given, but then there are other layers also under that concealed layers and those get revealed in the New Testament times when the second layer also gets fulfilled or in some cases even this third layer which will happen in the end times. So the God who knows the beginning, the end from the beginning, who knows the, yeah, both the beginning and the end, my English has gone down the drain. So he knows what will happen when and sometimes when he gives a prophecy, he's talking at three different levels. People who are listening will think, oh, he's talking about our times, but actually the Lord has got something more in mind and that gets revealed stage by stage. So we see that happening over here in this particular prophecy. So just to get into some more details, Isaiah goes on to have one more child, a second child and that second child is also given a name by God himself. This is the name which the Lord gives the second child. So the second child is asked to be named, a very strange name, Isaiah chapter 8 verse 1 is given the name Maharshalal Hashbas, basically four Hebrew words. This is the translation for those four Hebrew words, speedily spoil quickly plunder. Over here when I'm using the word spoil, I'm talking about the spoils of war. When the army goes to fight against the enemy, they're able to defeat them, they're able to take their gold and silver and their cattle and bring it back, those are the spoils of war, the things which they have won from the war. So over here, basically it is saying, go quickly and take the spoils of war quickly, plunder the enemy. In other words, God is saying, what I told about those two kings, it's going to happen now. Even as this child is born, this is going to happen. You can speedily go, take the spoils of war, defeat these people, come back victorious because I am going to be with you. So whether Ahas believed the word of the Lord or not, God did this for his people. So some people say, this name was given to the second child, but he's the child who was also given the name Emmanuel. Now again, that's a theory, so we don't really know whether the prophecy was referring to Isaiah's second child or not, but some young lady who had a child was given that name, Emmanuel. As for Isaiah's child, he was given this name, Maharshalal Hashbas. All right, so just as God prophesied, the Syrian king and this northern king of the king of the northern kingdom, these two kings, they come, they try to fight against Judah, but they are defeated. So when the battle happens, because the king Ahas did not believe in the word of the Lord, yes, the two kings have a large victory in the sense they are able to take the spoils from Judah. So rather than Judah having the victory and taking the spoils of war, it's these two kings who are able to take the spoils of war from Judah and go back victorious to their land, but after they go back home, God brings the judgment on their heads. So the original plan was that God would give victory to Judah itself, but because king Ahas was not even interested in listening to what the Lord is offering, these two kings are able to have victory. They're able to speedily come, take the spoils of war, plunder Judah, go back home victorious, but after they go back home, you know, both of them, they are killed in different circumstances. So they are destroyed just as God promised. So that's basically what happens. Yeah, I mean, yeah, those are some of the details. These are the things which happened during the time of king Ahas. Now the third king during whose reign Isaiah was doing his ministry, that would be Hezekiah. So when Hezekiah also receives a threat, his response is so different from the response of Ahas, because when Hezekiah, you know, the, you know, that commander, Sena Sherib, when he comes to him and says, I'm going to defeat your nation, you're going to be helpless, we defeated all the gods, so even your God will not be able to withstand against us. And he makes all those threats at that time. Hezekiah humbles himself before God. He goes to the temple and he says, Lord, we are helpless. We cannot do this on our own. We need your help. Ahas was so proud and he had his own plans on how he's going to rescue his land. So he had a very rebellious heart. On the other hand, Hezekiah, he has a very submissive heart and he says, Lord, we will look to you. You help us. So we see the contrast between King Ahas and the response we see from Hezekiah. So in Hezekiah's time, we see a great miracle happening, you know, that Sena Sherib, who makes all those threats and says, you're going to be completely, you know, destroyed. He gets news that somebody is attacking his, you know, the capital. So he leaves.  I'll come back. I'll definitely finish you because your King is there. Your God is just like all the other gods.  But what happens when he goes back over there to Damascus, the, that portion of the army which he has left over here, that portion of the army, an angel of the Lord comes in the night and kills the entire, all the soldiers who have been left behind.  So when the battle took place, when the Syrian King and that Northern Kingdom King came against Ahas, Ahas also would have experienced a great miraculous victory if he had trusted in the Lord. But because he failed to trust in the Lord, the enemy comes and speedily takes the spoils. The enemy comes and quickly takes the plunder and goes away and they are, you know, Jodha suffers. So it is always better to humble ourselves and trust in the Lord rather than have be proud that we can take care of our own decisions, you know, in our own way and refuse to submit to the Lord. So that's one learning that we can take away from this. There is so much more in Isaiah. I mean, we are out of time. So whenever you get the time, maybe you can meditate on the 66 chapters and there's a lot of history over there. The prophecies, I know they sound repetitive, but actually there's a lot of history contained inside those verses. So if you look at this, I'll book up Isaiah with the help of a commentary. They'll give you details of all the historical background, all the things that were happening while Isaiah was saying those prophecies. So all right, you guys can go for your break now. Yeah, thank you.


This is the David Feldman Radio Network. Amy Winehouse was a British singer-songwriter best known for her raucous mix of jazz and rhythm and blues. In 2008, her album Back to Black won five Grammys, making her one of the most celebrated female singers in modern musical history. Four years ago, Amy died at the age of 27 from alcohol poisoning. Asif Kapadia is the director of Amy, a new documentary about Amy Winehouse. This critically acclaimed movie features never-before-seen footage of Amy as a young girl as well as never-before-heard recordings. Asif joins us via Skype in San Francisco. Pretty cool. Yeah. Hello, David. Hi there. You make your home in London. I do, yeah. Did you know Amy Winehouse before you directed this documentary? I did not know her. I never met her. I never managed to see her live. But she was a local girl. That's kind of one of my connections to the material is that I lived around Camden. I lived there for about 10 years and she was like kind of the girl down the road who did really well. And then when it turned dark, it was this weird story was going on again, half a mile down the road. And it never quite made sense why she was still performing or why she was in public in such a bad way and why nobody was kind of holding the paparazzi away. You know, there was just lots of questions, I suppose, as a local person from the good times and then from the bad times. That was one of the real reasons why I felt I wanted to get into this movie. I have children not as old as Amy, but who are approaching their 20s. And you have to let go and they have to find their own way. How culpable is her father? Well, it's really, I mean, the film is a very complicated story. It's it's about an artist. It's about a young girl. It's about love. It is about family. It's about friendship. It's about a girl who had issues from a very young age. Many of them to do with self esteem and to do with kind of probably not feeling kind of comfortable within herself. She was unusual, but she had fun. She was funny. She was very intelligent. She was really witty and sharp. And, you know, her ways of dealing with issues was to write, to write poetry, to write, to write things down. And that those poems became songs and those songs she then would pick up a guitar and she was an amazing guitarist and she would sing. And it was all cool. I got off on a negative question and immediately going to her father. And that is kind of unfair. I apologize. Tell me earlier, I mentioned that she won five Grammys for Back to Black. How great was she? Let's really see if she is. Yeah, she's famous in the US, OK, because she only made two albums, right? She she she her first album came out in the UK. It didn't even get released here in the US. So her album, Frank, is a very jazzy album and, you know, it's very unusual and kind of the kind of music that she was into. No kid of 15, 16 was listening to Phelonius Monk and Sarah Vaughan and kind of this sort of stuff. And that's doubt. Those were her references. Ray Charles. So she's this North London Jew. And does her father get credit? Well, it's it's far more complex. It's far more complex. And then it just being about her and her dad, you see, her grandmother was a big presence in her life. And her grandmother went out with Ronnie Scott. Ronnie Scott's like one of my sevens jazz clubs in the world in London and the guy who who started up that jazz club, her grandmother used to hang out with and go out with. So she's grown up with jazz. She's grown up with music. She's grown up with musicians from her mother's side. Her father sings, yes, but it's not just about the dad. I mean, that's a really kind of important kind of thing that when you see the film, you'll see that it's much more complex and some of the stuff one may read will make it seem it's just about him and it isn't. And the clue is in the title. The film's about Amy because she was this amazing force. And so much of it about the film was just to show you who she really was. You know, there's this perception of she was this messed up girl with addictions and problems and couldn't kind of string a sentence together. And what we've done with the film is kind of go back and films made an entire lot of archive material. I did a film previously called Senna, which was done in a similar way. So you see the real person at the age of 14 and and it opens with a scene of her singing Happy Birthday.  When Amy sings it, believe me, she's different to everyone else. You know, so you hear her from an age of 14 when she's a young kid that she's already got something. She's got this way of singing. She's got this way of phrasing and timing. That is just different to everyone else. So she had this talent. Her first album, she did at 16, 17, 18. Back to Black came out at 19, 20, 21. She created that by the age of 21. She'd done these two amazing albums with those albums. People like Tony Bennett thought she was the real deal. You know, the Rolling Stones wanted to perform with her. Prince thought she was great and sang with her. You know, if you're into hip hop, there were people like Questlove and people like Most Death and Yassine Bado. These guys all respected her. So she did all this by 22. Then by the last five years of her life really are about the kind of spiraling down. And that's the bit she became famous for here, particularly of that kind of downward spiral of not being in a good way and being famous and being hounded by paparazzi. And that's really where the story turns. And so the film's really about showing you who she really was and how maybe not everyone is cut out for fame. Maybe not everyone wants to be a megastar, but actually they still want to create.  And she wasn't really prepared or, you know, having the right team around her maybe at times to protect her from all of that. A lot of rhythm and blues singers died, poor and unknown. How much of fame played a role in her demise? You're saying you seem to be saying it played a huge role, but it seems to me. The issues already there, the issues that are from childhood, those issues of insecurities and worrying about how you look and worrying about whether people really care about you or they care about what you become. You know, those issues were there. This kind of idea of self-medicating was there from a very young age. She had bulimia from a very young age. Alcohol was an issue from a very young age. There were prescription drugs from a young age. You know, depression, all of these things were there. But she was kind of in control of them while, you know, she was able to do her thing and have a way to... The release was the writing and the singing. She, all of her songs are very personal and about all of the issues that she was trying to manage. And that's what the film is almost like an old-fashioned musical, where you have moments of her life and you're going along with her and you're hanging out with her and you understand something pivotal in her life experience. And then she stands up and sings about that moment and then you get the song. So these songs, quite a lot of them, like Rehab or, you know, You Know I'm No Good or Love is a Losing Game, are very famous songs. But what we do is unravel where they came from and who they're about and what had actually happened. And so she was kind of managing it all. Megafame came along and the media multiplied by, you know, a million percent and that's when it all got at hand. Certain people were suddenly in her team. A certain relationship leads to not only the creation of Back to Black, but also is a big part of the kind of downfall of her as a character because that leads deeper and deeper into these addictions. So what is it about fame? Is it that you become a performer because you want love and you feel good while you're performing? But then when you're offstage, you want real love, but you can't trust anybody now because anybody you meet. Everyone's on a payroll. You know, everybody you meet, right. Yeah, you know, everyone are they there because of you? Are they there because you're paying for everything? And that was what she and she struggled with that. I think that's one of the things. Definitely, that that was an issue for her. That was definitely one of the complexities of her life. What about her? So I started the interview asking you about her father. Were there any men in her life who loved her for who she was? And how do you separate the image of Amy Winehouse as a brilliant singer-songwriter from the real Amy Winehouse? I mean, isn't that who she is in order to love Amy Winehouse? You'd have to love her voice and her music. I think, yeah, but she, you know, that it's it's a it's a good question. The film is almost in two hearts. There's the first half, which is before mega fame and there's a second half.  There's lots of people there who really, really loved her. And then and then what happens is later on, as as she makes this record and becomes super successful, then there are still people around her that that love her, that care about her. But there's definitely a change in her that's a change in her thought process. And I think a lot of people started making decisions because so this window of of fame is a very short thing from going from somebody that people have heard of to suddenly becoming one of the most famous people around it in the movie. It's like, you know, maybe half an hour in reality, maybe it was 18 months. But when you look at someone's career, like Tony Bennett or someone, that's not a long time. But with the wrong person, everything happens too quickly. People start making decisions that maybe are not best for her. And I think that whole thing of say, well, just do one more show, one more concert. This will be good for you. Do this, do this and rather than take a break, get away, get well. Yeah, time out. You know, your career should be 50 years long. Not two years long on, you know, and if you're performing the same record five years in, you know, the typical kind of promotional activity on an album. I'm told it's 18 months. So five years after she's still singing the songs from back to black. That's not necessarily a great thing, particularly if the songs are so personal and so painful for her to sing because they're about the person that she was mad in love with that left her. Was she seeing a psychiatrist? Was she I don't think she ever did. I think that's one of the things I don't think she ever did. Was anybody able to point her in the direction of rehab? Well, again, this is what the kind of whole films about. Yeah, there were moments when people tried and the song rehab is actually about the incident when her first manager tried to take her. And what you realize is what we do in the film is we put the lyrics of the songs on the screen as she's singing them. So you literally because you can hear the song thousands of times. You don't actually know what she's singing because you get carried away by the music and the voice. If you study the lyrics, you understand that that that song is almost verbatim. It's like a documentary of what happened. How much of her creative process was fueled by self loathing and how much of it was fueled by alcohol? Her creative process, the people I've spoken to, that's when she's not drinking. That's when she's not on anything. Her creative process came out of, you know, I think the people I've spoken to, you know, that is kind of it's a myth. This idea that you need to do drugs in order to create it's the absolute opposite. She she was clean and sober when she created. That's when she did her best work. Is it correct in assuming that people do drugs and drink so they don't create because they want to turn off those juices? I'm very nervous about in any way pretending to be any authority on anyone else or any anyone actually anyone's lives. But with Amy, yeah, it was self-medicating. It was doing something to stop feeling, to to deal with depression, to deal with these kind of confusions about what's going on around her or her insecurities or because she was being the more she got attacked, the more she would drink, you know, or to be in a certain relationship with someone who maybe that person has their own reasons for wanting to get her hooked on some really heavy drugs. And her feeling is this person really understands me. And the only way I'm going to understand them is by doing what they do. And I'll do everything that you do in order to be at your level. And that's kind of what happened. It was a very, you know, it was a very heavy relationship. You know, the rock and roll way of doing it is kind of a Sid and Nancy relationship. But actually, you've got two messed up kids who have grown up and whose way of dealing with stuff is to kind of shut down and be doing this stuff together. And it was, you know, she went from zero. She had a very addictive personality. So when she was a teenager, she just if she went out to buy flowers, she'd come back with a house full of flowers. Right. She bought CDs. She'd buy 200 CDs. She bought shoes. She'd buy 50 pairs of shoes. She does drugs. She's going to go from zero to maximum. And so that's just something that's in her. There was nobody when she was young telling her to stop giving her boundaries. That's what it really all goes back to. So the people that you've mentioned were not necessarily there to be the strong parent when she was growing up. And that's the big some of the revelations of the movie are she herself tells you people, nobody was there telling her to stop. Nobody was around when she was young. Maybe they turned up when she was famous and rich. Was she born with a God given voice? She she, like I said, we've got footage of her when she's singing. And she's like eight, nine, 10, 12, and she's got the voice. Yeah. And how much studying did she do to huge, huge amount, but personal, you know, she didn't she didn't go off. She went to various schools. She went to kind of places that kind of teach you. But I don't think they taught her anything. She never finished any school. She was either kicked out or left. So she had it in her. She studied in her room. She listened to these records. It's amazing. Kind of she was an encyclopedia on jazz. She knew everything. And it's kind of old fashioned way of learning of looking at a record and studying who played the saxophone on it.  That old fashion thing that I did when I had LPs, I looked at every single person on the track listing and understand where was it recorded and who did this? Oh, he played on that record. That's what kind of knowledge and experience she had. And her singing, she herself says she learned to sing by listening to Thelonious Monk, to listen into soloists. She's not trying to copy singers. She's listening to musicians playing kind of she's listened to soloists who are playing the piano or playing kind of another instrument. And that's how she learned about singing. That's kind of how Sinatra learned these are her heroes. People like Tony Bennett, Sarah Vaughn, you know, these were the people that she listened to. And she's like I said, she was like a 15 year old Jewish girl from North London, but that was the music. And I think that came out of her grandmother that came out of her mom's side of the family, there were musicians in there. Her dad sings a bit, you know, there were people, those music was in the home for sure.  And that is if you're born with this great voice, would she have been as great? Had she not been born with the mental illness? Well, there's another thing which we really highlight in the Mavia case. People, the voice is the one that everyone talks about. What we highlight really is the writing. And I think the songwriting is actually I think the most amazing thing about her. And that's really what stands out is that she didn't have a team of writers behind her, everything she wrote, she wrote herself and it was all personal. And she could sing and she could do it live. And whenever she recorded her albums, it was at one take wonders. She did two at most, you know, and every time every time she performed as different, there's no editing of what she did. And the film features a lot of live performances. So for me, when I listen to the records, they feel quite overproduced now. So I basically in the film, you see her hanging out. She's doing her makeup in the restroom. She's traveling by taxi. She's chatting to her friends, picks up a guitar, walks up on stage, starts to sing and blows you away. So it's not just the voice, actually, because, you know, sometimes you kind of go, well, you know, how much production has gone into that? It's the whole attitude. It's the whole experience in things and being able to express it through her writing and then being able to sing it and do it live. I mean, it really is the whole package. Now, I don't think, you know, her friends have said to me, she was unusual. She had some sort of she was slightly out of kilter with everyone around her. You know, when they were all playing hide and go seek in a house when they were eight, they couldn't find Amy. And she'd been a room sitting there in a corner reading Schindler's list. Well, she was just on a different level, intelligence wise to people.  It's not because they're dumb, it's because they're really sharp and they think too much. They can't shut down what they're thinking about or what they're feeling. And so they're particularly sensitive, maybe, to things that are going around them. And people like myself, I can I just fall asleep. I'm not like that. And I think that's that's where people differ. And I don't mean to jest about it. You know, there's there's issues of mental illness in my family. And, you know, I've seen people very close to me who have these issues where they worry to think about things. And I think there was an element of that in her. She had a way to express it, not everyone has a way to express it. And her album Back to Black, the most famous album, is all comes out of a really bad relationship, a nervous breakdown, which led her to drinking, which led her to a real low point. And one of the issues that comes out of the film is really what's more important? Is it more important that person's still around or the art form that they created when they were really down? The stereotype with Jews is that they don't drink, that they don't have drug problems. Really? Why would that be? Well, it's a few people in the movie business. Yes, yeah, a few people in the music business who do. So it's not as I would not say that's necessarily the case. Right. But there is this traditional stereotype, at least in America, that Jewish men make the best husbands because they don't drink. Again, we're talking about stereotypes that. Yeah. And then my rabbi said, well, actually, that's not true. A lot of alcoholism starts at Bar Mitzvahs, where the the boys and girls start drinking for the first time at Bar Mitzvahs. How much of a role did Judaism play in her life? Was she bought Mitzvah? Did she belong to a temple? Was there any spiritual quest on her part? I don't think she was particularly religious. Her family are all Jewish, all of her friends are. But it's it's a kind of different. It's a North London Jewish thing, which is a bit more laid back, I think. And and so, you know, I think members of family would meet on a on a on a weekend and they'd sit down together and eat and all the traditions were there. Her manager, Nick, her first manager, Nick, was with his Jewish and her second manager, Ray's Jewish.  But from what I've heard and what I've seen, Amy herself was not particularly religious. It wasn't something that was that important to her. I think it was it was her music was her thing. Her religion was her record collection. I think did she grow up middle class, upper middle class, middle class? I'd say I'd say it was it was a she's not actually from Camden. Camden is a particularly kind of interesting place, which, you know, in the 60s would have been maybe Carnaby Street in the 70s, might have been Notting Hill. Well, around the kind of 80s, 90s, Camden was the place that was edgy. And a lot of drugs on the scene. There was a lot of wannabes, models, musicians, artists and students and everyone was kind of hanging out there. And she wanted to be part of that scene. What did her father do? What did her father do for a living? I think originally he was a double glazing salesman, and then he became a cab driver, you know. But but she had, you know, they lived in a wealthy part of town. They were they were not they were not from a housing estate or, you know, kind of a kind of rough part of town at all. They were they were fairly middle class, which is one of the reason why most of the people you meet in the film at the beginning, you know, they lived in semi-detached houses in London, slightly on the edge, north London, slightly on the edge of kind of London, not in Soho, not in Westminster, anywhere like that. And what did her mother do for a living? Her mother trained as a pharmacist. She she did a kind of open university degree and trained as a pharmacist. But her mum also suffered from MS and sort of was particularly well when Amy was becoming famous. And so kind of has a slightly different kind of attitude. She's quite shy and not particularly outspoken. And so I think when things started kind of blowing up and becoming you know, you've got bigger, it appears that she kind of shut down a bit more and more. Are the mother and father still alive? They're alive. They're not together. They broke up a while ago. While before before after Amy took off, you really need to see it. It's a key part. I know. It's a very key part of film. There's there's a whole layer in the story when you realize that when Amy was young, her father was having an affair with someone else for a long part of her childhood. So even though he was there was still technically married, he was with someone else.  Yeah, they say that when a marriage breaks up, it's like a death in the family for the kids, especially when they're young.   All of this kind of idea of someone who's got his talent and who is looked up upon by children and adults has been different. But actually and overtly on the outside, looks like they're really mature and grown up because she was having these very intense relationships at a very young age. Like I said, her first album, she said right at 16, and she's having a relationship with someone who's seven years older than her. And it's like the lyrics are pretty heavy. They're pretty serious things that she's talking about. Is that legal? She's a kid. Is that legal? In Europe, it is, yeah. But, you know, well, it's not whether it's legal or not is an issue. The issue is, was there anybody around saying no? But she was not cool. She was 16, going out with a 23 year old. Seems like it, yeah. And there's a pretty intense relationship, and that's what she's writing about. So it's all kind of grown up at a very young age. You say it's that mixed with a drinking, mixed with not going to school. Yeah, it's all of these kind of breaking rules and pushing boundaries and pushing boundaries, which some would say, you know, a lot of times kids do that, children do that in order to see, to test the parent, when are you going to stop me? When are you going to say that's enough? If you don't, I keep going, I keep going. And if you take that idea, you follow it through her adulthood. That's, I would say, from the outside. That's kind of what was going on still. You said it's legal for a 16 year old to go out with a 23 year old. I think the age of consent is 16 in in the UK. It's much younger in Europe, you know, it can be 14. So you can have a relationship with someone when you're 16, because you can get married. The paparazzi. Is there any way to rein in the paparazzi? Great Britain and the United Kingdom. I from what I understand, it's far worse in London than it is here in America. I don't know. I was in New York the other day and I saw something going on with a member of one direction, walking down the street didn't look very nice from where I was. So I think it was particularly bad at that point in time. What happened was Amy happened to be the musician who was becoming famous at the point when there was a newspaper war going on. And when newspapers went from physical copies to digital websites. So it's not just once a day or once a week, the papers coming out. But they want to keep uploading photos and information to keep you clicking. So that whole idea of kind of Internet and websites and phone hacking was going on. And then you've got YouTube and you've got Facebook where people are posting videos. She, you know, she did a bad performance. Everyone saw it because it was online and everyone commented on it and shared it. So it's all to do with like a quirk of fate. She was the unlucky one to have the song called rehab while she was having a breakdown in public while the Internet kicked off. Asif Kapadia, he's the director of Amy. It's a new documentary about Amy Winehouse. I think the hardest thing to tell somebody her age is you have to stop. You only think you're famous because you're going out in public dressed the way people know you. But you can actually wear a wig, change your name and go be a human being. I was amazed when I go to the farmer's market in Los Angeles and I'm walking around and I know that there are superstars in my midst. But I just don't recognize them because they're either I don't know who they are because there's been such a fragmentation of our culture or they're just wearing a baseball cap. Fame, you can be famous and still be avoided if you really are working it properly.  But I felt for a long time that one of the things that she needed to do was to get away from Camden and get away from London and, you know, travel. There's so much more in the world than London and music and fame. And she'd worked hard enough to go and experience, you know, you don't have to come to LA, go to India, go and see what else is out there. There's so much more out there. And I always felt I wish you'd done that. But I think, I think, you know, over time and if you are in that kind of lifestyle, she had quite a lot of seizures. And I think that does affect your thinking. That does affect the way you are. And you're not quite the same person after you've had six, seven seizures, which some of them would be turned overdoses. You know, that starts to affect you. And what happened was, I think, for a period she had people around here. Eventually, I think that really, really cared about.  And then, you know, by then the papers have kind of moved on to someone else, I guess. But the psychological damage may well have already been done. Did she like any of the fame? Did she have fun with any of it? It's a real contradiction, you know, like it's really hard to sort of just say it's one thing or another.  But on the other hand, if someone praised her, she'd be really rude to them because she wasn't used to kind of people giving her positive comments or wasn't comfortable with it. And that all comes back to this idea of how you're built and how you how are you constructed in order to deal with when people tell you, you're amazing, you're great. And rather than saying, thanks, you know, she would almost lash out. Because that was not something she maybe didn't want to hear it from that person, she wanted to hear it from somewhere else. Or she wasn't able to enjoy it. Right.  Some of the highest points in her career, you learn things in the film, which, you know, for her, it's boring. Right. It's boring when you're alone. It's boring if your husband's in jail at that point. It's boring. And one particularly sad moment is when someone says, you know, this is amazing. This is everything that you've been dreaming about. It's the greatest moment in your life. Isn't it? And she says it's really boring without drugs. How long did it take you to make this movie? This film took about three years to put together. What are your favorite songs of hers? You spent three years listening to Amy Winehouse. What do you find yourself listening to over and over again? There's a piece. There's only a small moment in the film where she's writing a song and I managed to find someone from all of the research that I did. I found this 20 minute piece of music of Amy writing a piece of writing a song with her guitar, working out the song, working out the lyrics. And there's a tiny moment of that, which is one of my favorite things that I listen to when I'm working.  In terms of Finnish songs, there's a performance of a Donny Hathaway song. We're Still Friends, which is not one of Amy's, but it's beautiful. It's amazing. And it comes at a very pivotal moment in the story. So no one really has heard this song before. And when we screened the film around the world, that was the one that a lot of people said, how can I get hold of that? Where do I, you know, where can I get a copy of this song? So We're Still Friends by Donny Hathaway is is a beautiful vocal performance that she gives. But of her own songs, I'm a big fan of tears drawing their own. And then Love is a Losing Game is in the film as well, which is again, it's almost like an acapella. There's one guy with a guitar there and she sings it again at one of the lowest points of her life. And really, that song Love is a Losing Game almost sums up her life. You know, that could have been a title of the movie. Do we know if any new albums will be coming out? I don't know if there's any new albums. But what what has happened is because of the kind of popularity of the film around the world, a lot of people and because all of the performances in the film that we found and that we used, they serve a narrative purpose, but they're also they're all live and their versions of of songs which no one's sort of heard before, particularly from her first album, Frank. So actually, what's happened because of the kind of demand that a kind of soundtrack album is out, which coincides with the songs which we featured in the film. So those those versions, including the Donny Hathaway song are on it. Amy is really getting great reviews and people love it. How are you dealing with the new fame? I've been around a while, you know, it's one of those things when you kind of make films for 20 years and people go, oh, is this your first film? You know, I've been around a long time.  You know, I've had films that people have liked and I've had films people haven't liked and you learn to just take the rough with a smooth and and and when it's good, enjoy it. You know, I'm so you're savoring every moment of this. There isn't there isn't anything. How about having a talk to David Feldman? I mean, this is obviously the high point. This is it. I I'm I'm stopping now. There's nothing. It isn't I'll never I'll never wash my headphones for my iPad ever again. Asif Kapadia is the director of Amy. Go see it in theaters near you. Buy it on Amazon. It's at film festivals everywhere. Thank you so much and congratulations. Thank you. Great talking to you. Great talking to you. This is the David Feldman Radio Network.