Again, good morning. This is the third meeting of our European and Eurasian laboratory network. I will quickly bring you through the agenda of today. We will start with some opening remark from the chair of Eurozolan, Mr. Gargi Gambasciata. Sorry, very difficult. And the Glossalan chair in Opanensu-Vananga. Thereafter, I will give you some updates on the global network, and then we will get also some updates on Eurozolan, really from the regional network, followed by an open discussion. Under these items, so under item two, we will also look into some activities that the GSP is implementing in the region that are connected to soil, and I will give you a presentation on how to apply for funds at FAO, because there is a special program that you can apply for funds, and this is the right time to apply for funds. Under item three, we will look into Eurozolan main needs, and we will close by reviewing the position of Eurozolan in Glossalan, as we do every year in preparation of the Glossalan meeting, and ultimately by looking into the governance of the network, because unfortunately the mandate of Georgie and the vice chair of Eurozolan is coming to an end, so we need that to appoint the new chair and vice chair. So without any further delay, I would like to give the floor to Mr. Georgie, for his opening remarks. Georgie, the floor is yours. Thank you very much. Hello everyone, it's again a pleasure to meet you all online. Of course, it would be better to meet in person, but unfortunately we are still having lots of problems, you all know this, and anyway I'm very happy to see you all, lots of familiar faces, and again we had a very nice year I think in terms of Eurozolan activities, and we did a lot in terms of harmonization, in terms of more collaboration and more exchange of knowledge, and just thanks a lot to all of you for this, and I think we have a very nice agenda today, if you agree all, and we're tight, and thanks GSB team for this, and I'm looking forward for very fruitful meeting and discussions. Many thanks Georgie, now I would like to pass the floor to Ms. Nomanesuvanan, the chair of Eurozolan. Nomanie, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you Rukes, yeah. Greetings, very happy to be here. In this, it is my pleasure to deliver this message to the group of the lab manager and also the panel from the Europe, SOEI region and Eurasia region. I thank the FAO, Mr. Radhau Vargas, the GSB and the team of the, the team of the FAO to host this Thursday Rose Solan meeting during the first to first meeting in our first meeting in Chisunau, Mordewa. It is my first time to visit Mordewa, the country that holds up the historical culture, a lot of violate of the event and also the music festival that I still very remember about this experience, not only on our discussion on sign, but also the culture and the biggest gift by factory that we have visited and spent a very nice food joint together over there. Thanks to the warm welcome to us at the time from Mordewa and I am truly miss the experience and hospitality from Georgia, who is supposed to host the second Euro Solan meeting in 2020, as we cannot do it as planned because of COVID. However, despite of the COVID-19, we have taken a step to turn this situation into the opportunity to welcome you more by the virtual meeting. Since Euro Solan is the bit in 2019, start approximately from 76 left in 2018. Now, we almost reached 143 left that already registered in the Euro Solan, which is very important number. Thanks to the interest and credit and awareness to our important role on the sustainable management and committed in fulfilling our responsibility for our countries by support to the mission of the Euro Solan under the umbrella of the PLA-5 harmonization of the network measurements and indicator for the sustainable management and protection of the soil resources. I am pleased to announce that at this point, the Euro Solan is the expected network that I personally believe that we will be able to join effort with the coastal land for increasing the performance of the coastal land soil. As many international systems already exist in your region, the International Organization for the Standardization ISO in Switzerland that providing the common standard among the nation in the creation of the product and service. The EUROLA came a network of the organization in Europe having the objective of the establishing a system for the international feasibility of the chemical management and the promotion of the good quality practice. You have many skilled experts that already join collaboration with other regions. For example, the Institute of Research for the Development IID from France and the British Geological Survey in England, BTS that already have project to support the outfit like country and also some of the unit country. The long experience with the V-POW from Netherlands for the proficiency test with all these facilities in your region, I think it is not difficult to help us coastal land members to reach the standard way of working and bringing the quality result together with other experts from other regions while in the same time being asked to join effort to do our European research consortium. I'm pleased to announce that in just only four years after the establishment of the coastal land in 2017, we have come out with a lot of outcome from the network. Some of them are an important number of the SOP that we can work and harmonize to work in the same way with the good quality control. Many training courses were held in parallel with the regional meeting and now solar-free access available right now under the preparation. With this success, I would like to give honor and appreciation to Georgie Spera, Liner-Bartis, Maja, Elena, Chau, Anneke, Neki, Oga, and all the leaders of the Establishment National Network that I could not all mention here. For their entailing commitment and leadership for the encouragement provided by Euro Solange and FAO, I also expect recognition and sincere appreciation to Ronald Vargas, our secretariat team for their full support to sustaining our coastal land activity. Either the implementation of the PT program, the procurement of some equipment to some countries that have a good performance from the PT results and many others, you can visit our website for more information. While the coastal land and the Euro Solange are working towards the objective of the CSP-PLAV-5, there is a need to overnight the harmonization in the TAT in our soil in the country level so that the establishment of the national soil is necessary for this purpose. So this year we will have to have more of a work-out skill to this national lab in order to provide the opportunity for local staff to learn and improve their working. The national network will have to fix the barrier of the land play problem and also provide the opportunity for the local labs to present their challenge and needs from country level to the consideration of the coastal land. The national land shall exhibit a country soil data system for lately retrieval and reference for policy planning and as well as for monitoring of the soil health and provision of site-specific interventions by concerning on the reliable and comparable soil testing data and I encourage everyone to actively participate and commit to the core of us by connecting our soil lab and promoting the harmonized state method to support various decision making bodies at the international level as a backbone of the site-based soil data to support sustainable management of our soil resources. Finally, I would like to express appreciation also to the invaluable logistical support provided by many staff members of the Euro Solange in the contribution to support by providing the information as needed and also contribute to our work as leaders in the process of harmonization of the SOP and the trainers. Let us look forward together to another successful meeting of Euro Solange today. Please be aware that our success will all depend on your energy, motivation, commitment, and support to the achievement of the core of coastal land and Euro Solange. I wish you all a very successful meeting and ensure you all the full support of myself, love as a Y-Shares, and our Secretariat team and I cannot mention here for our team because I think that we work a lot of the team working together and I would like to thank also Eryna, that effort to try to make a harmonization of the organic carbon by walkway back and also the 2D method with the di-competent method and now the paper is in under the review of the publication. I think that we will have a very good publication very soon. Congratulations in advance. Thank you. Thank you very much, Nock. Now before really getting into the core of this meeting I would like to ask you all to please turn on your cameras and give us your best mile. We are going to take the group picture. Filippo, please tell us when you are ready and on. So all cameras on please. Okay, big smile please. Okay, Dan, thanks a lot. Thanks to you. Now allow me to share my screen again and we immediately go into item one. So updates on the Global Soil Laboratory Network. I am starting with a couple of slides to introduce what is Glossalon to the new members of the network. Well, Glossalon was established in 2017 to harmonize soil laboratory methods and data and to build the capacity of laboratories in soil analysis. Ultimately, we work in three main areas. So the first one is quality assurance and quality control. In this regard, we execute the external quality control, also called proficiency testing, and we train laboratories on the execution of internal quality control. Thereafter, we focus on standard operating procedures. So we harmonize standard operating procedures, not only on the implementation of methods of analysis, but also on other topics like health and safety. And we also provided the training on the implementation of the SOPs we harmonize. In terms of equipment, we are training laboratories on equipment use, maintenance, and purchasing. And we establish a donation battery system that honestly we still have to put into action. We are looking for ways to do it. And under these thematic areas of work, we have our subnetwork that is the Global Initiative on Soil Petroscopy that indeed focuses on soil spectroscopy. We have another areas of work. So we have another subnetwork of Glossalon that focuses on fertilizer analysis, and that's called INSA. So as anticipated, we are now in the Eurozolan meeting. So the meeting of the European and Eurasian soil laboratory network. And this is because Glossalon operates through regional soil laboratory network. At the national level, we operate through, well, the laboratories that are registered in the network, and especially through national reference laboratories that were appointed to take a leading role in the country by the GSP focal point. So basically the official representative of the country to the GSP. Now, so it was appointed by the government. The National Reference Laboratory is its task to establish the National Soil Laboratory Network and to follow up on the implementation of its activities. This is an overview of the status of the global network right now. We have more than 740 laboratory registered and 143 of these come from Europe and Eurasia. To have a better overview of our member laboratories, you can consult the interactive map available on our webpage. And here with you can see the link. This is just to inform you that Glossalon is doing its best to keep the webpage updated and available in the 61 languages, so English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian, and Chinese. And we are doing the same to keep also our publications available in these languages plus others, depending on the availability of translators. Each page contains a frequently asked question and detailed information on how activities are implemented. So I kindly ask you to please consult this webpage to get more information on what we are doing and especially on how we are doing it. Of course, we are happy to answer questions by email, but many questions are already answered in the website. As I told you, we are doing our best to translate all the material in as many languages as possible in order to facilitate the implementation of activities at the national level. In this regard, I would like to really thank all of you that are serving and serve as translators. So this was a voluntary work and thank you so much. We very much appreciate. And as you can see, we already have several material. Well, maybe it does not come from this page, but we have several material already available in Russia, Spanish, French, Arabic, and also Chinese. Please let us know if you wish to become a Glossalon translator, while this is a job for free. But it's very useful and really an opportunity to translate all our material in your local language. So beyond the six UL official languages and facilitate the implementation of activities in your country. I would also like to thank those of you that are working on the preparation of training videos, because we are trying to publish our training material. So together with the video training, so not only the document itself, but also we are preparing video training. So many thanks to all laboratories that are working on this. Well, looking at Europe, I would like to thank the laboratory of Elena in Russia for preparing the video training for Turin. We are finalizing its editing, and we should be able to publish it on the website in one week or so. Please let us know if you would like to record any training video. This is a very good opportunity to well, advertise your work and your laboratory, because at the beginning of each video, there is a space for you to talk and introduce your stuff, your laboratory, your country, and your work. As you can see here on screen, we have a short manual on how to record the training videos for the network. So based on the decision made at the fourth Glossalon meeting, which was last year, all Resolans meetings will now focus on decision making only. So today there will not be any training because all trainings are and will be implemented in the form of webinars. Again, we are doing our best to overcome language barriers, barriers due to time zones and so so that we are organizing webinars on the same topic in different languages and at different times to facilitate the participation of as many regions and as countries as possible. Of course, we are not able to let's say implement all webinars on the same topic let's say in one day or two. The calendar of the webinars very much depends on the availability of trainers. So in terms of and also on the language that we have available now so that the trainers speak. We are building a page on capacity building. So the page is still under constructions, but the content is updated. What you find on this page? Well, our webinars organize their topic. So for example, we have webinars on wet chemistry, on spectroscopy, health and safety and much more. Each under each session you will find well the title of the training, the date, time and language of the training and the information on the trainers together with a short abstract on the content that's on the topic of video of the training session. Before the webinar takes place you will have at the bottom of the description of the of the session, the dates on the event and the link to register. After the webinar you will still have the dates of the event, a link to download the presentation and the link to download the recording of the webinar so that you can really go through the different training sessions as many times as you want. And eventually we have a highlight that is as you know for press and communication purposes. This is just a quick overview of the webinars on wet chemistry that we started to implement. So as you can see two sessions were already implemented. The last one took place yesterday and it was on health and safety and that was implemented in English. The first one was in Spanish and was on the implementation of Olsen P, of the Olsen P method and as mentioned before you see like session one was on the implementation of the Olsen P method. It took place in Spanish. We will have the same session in English on the first of November. And then we will try to do the same in all other languages depending on the availability of trainers. In terms of webinars on soil spectroscopy we are a bit in a more advanced stage. We already implemented five training sessions. The next one will be tomorrow on measuring reflectance of undisturbed soil surface in the field on their laboratory quality. So please if you're interested in the topic attend it. The registration link is still open and what we are trying to do is spectroscopy well is basically to go from the simple the more complex aspect of the matter because there are a lot of laboratories that are interested in soil spectroscopy but are very new to this technology. So we are really trying to support them in approaching it. So also in this regard I would like to thank all experts that made themselves available to give and prepare the webinars. We really appreciate your work and I'm sure that the region your region actually regions in general depending on the language and countries really appreciate it as well and I would like to make a call for all of you that feel like becoming trainers. We are really in need and looking for trainers not only for webinars but actually webinars give us a good opportunity to identify trainers to involve in projects. So eventually there would be the possibility to get a contract depending on the availability of funds and the availability of projects. This is a quick update on the harmonization of the Glossalon standard operating procedure that Glossalon decided to harmonize in the year 2020-2021. Well last year we decided to add to our work plan the harmonization of methods also on physical and biological parameters. So the list of SOPs we are harmonizing now it's quite long. Unfortunately we had some delays in the harmonization due mostly to the overload of work that we as coordinators but also experts are facing because many experts are in multiple working groups. So we are still at the stage of harmonizing the global matrices but we are positive about the fact that we would be able to publish that SOPs by the end of the year. Overall we face major delays on the preparation of some matrices and harmonization of some SOPs especially. I'm referring for example to those on biological parameters because we have few experts in the working group and little inputs on the procedures implemented for each method where it is by laboratories. And this is not because laboratories and experts do not want to share their experience and routine procedures but it's really because the method is used by a few laboratories and known by few experts. So maybe later on during the day we will get back to this to this issue when discussing that SOPs to harmonize next year. Now an update on the organization of the global proficiency test I think you will find is very interesting. So if you remember in 2019 we launched a global PT and we involved the ultimately 80 to 90 laboratories although we have 100 sets of SOPs available. So as promised we did our best to increase the number of SOPs available and that's the number of laboratories that can participate to the PT. So this year we have 280 sets of SOPs available and each set contains 10 sub-sealed bags of soil labeled with a unique sample code. In each bag there are 10 grams of homogenized soil material and well I don't want to say up to now because this number is like two weeks old but we received let's say so far 250 expressions of interest from laboratories to to participate to the PT. Eight laboratories ultimately said that they will not participate but that's okay because the problem is that many countries are still facing limitations due to COVID which is not very nice. Anyway laboratories that will participate in the PT will be selected based on geographical balance so we will ensure to involve at least one laboratory per country. This means that there can be more than one laboratory per country participating in the PT. Then laboratories that will participate will be selected based on the number of parameters that that can measure so we provided a list if you if you receive my email and read it and the methods of analysis that they they can perform. Ultimately we will apply the principle come first served and this principle will be applied of course if we if we have more interesting laboratories to participate than number than than samples available. The decision on the laboratories to participate in the PT will be made by the end of October so very soon you will hear about it and the shipment of samples will start in November. So participating laboratories will be asked to analyze the samples for soil organic carbon that is really like our main focus of attention for this PT because of the COP26 available phosphorus and total nitrogen in this order of priority. If you remember in 2019 we sent to laboratories the three bags of soil and asked them to replicate the analysis three times three times. Now this will not apply to the PT this year also because you will receive only 10 grams of soil per each bag so there will be no replica all samples should be analyzed only one and laboratories are kindly asked not to use all the soil material for conducting one analysis only. In this regard we are providing recommendations on the amount of soil needed for the analysis looking at the glossolone SOP in the instruction for the PT that we will send to you by email and also together with the with the soil samples. Now it's in the packet so as you can see this is just an overview like an extract from the instruction that you will receive here you have the soil parameter and the methods and an indication of the amount of soil needed to analyze the soil for this method and for this soil parameter. This is again an example of what we are called laboratories to do before starting the analysis because we will not send any let's say second set of samples to laboratories that do not follow the instruction because I'm telling you this because it already happened in 2019 so please decide what analysis to conduct and methods to use before starting the analysis in order to ensure that you have sufficient soil to do the analysis you want to do. This is an example of what is good so for example you can analyze the the sample for total carbon using dumas available phosphorus using Olsen and again Ray 1 and then total nitrogen like Sheldon. Looking at the amount of soil you would need in total you would need 10 grams so this is good. If you decide to also add to the analysis the analysis of organic carbon by walking in black you would need of 11 grams of soil and this is not good because you will not have sufficient soil to conduct all analysis so please plan well and be careful on what you do. This year we have a big news the GSP made an investment on the development of a platform an online platform for the online submission of PT Results. I will send you the link of course but you can already have a look at it in the Glossalon webpage under quality control and quality assurance and so how does it work? Basically by the time you are selected for the for the participation in the PT we receive the instructions on how to do the analysis together with instructions on how to submit the results and ultimately how to use the online platform. So in this regard you will receive a unique identification code it's unique just for your laboratory and it will be that code forever let's say that you will use to enter your results in the app in the platform. If you have any questions please feel free to use the chat I will have a look after the presentation to conclude my presentation I would like to update you on the Glossalon procurement. So these are again links to the participation of laboratories to the PT 2019 because those laboratories that participated to that PT and are from developing country and demonstrated not to need of training were granted with some laboratory equipment based on their needs. So in Europe and Eurasia Glossalon is providing eventually still the delivering in some countries equipment to Georgia and the Republic of North Macedonia. Information on the equipment provided to laboratories are available on the Glossalon equipment interactive map that you can see at this link and if again if you want to learn more about the Glossalon program on cell laboratory equipment you are welcome to visit our website. This is just an overview of the equipment we are procuring to laboratories in Macedonia and Georgia actually both of these countries the delivery is finished so the laboratory received the equipment already so as you can see you have the name of the country the name of the beneficiary laboratory why they are receiving the equipment in this case because they participated to the PT 2019 and then information on the equipment donated the donor and the status of delivery of the equipment. So thank you for your attention and again I'm available to answer questions in the in the chat. Now I would like to give the floor to my colleague Silipo Benedetti for the updates on on the regional network. Silipo the floor is yours. Yes thanks Lucrezia thanks a lot. Good morning everyone. Let me share my screen just a second. Yes I hope you can see my presentation now. Well again welcome to this meeting. As Lucrezia gave an overview on the global activities of Glossalon I will try to give a little bit an insight on the regional context. So as you know the global laboratory network is increasing and enlarging every day receiving more requests for registering almost every day and we almost reached the number of 800 laboratories worldwide and as you can see Rosalind is one of the biggest regional network because the global network is again like structuring regional networks and Rosalind is one of the biggest regional networks in in the world and originally as you can see we almost reached 150 laboratories and since the establishment of the of the network three years ago. Since last year since last meeting of Rosalind we registered 23 more laboratories in the network. They come from different countries both from Europe and Eurasia. Still there are some countries that have no lab register in the network. Here is a list on the left side of the screen both from Europe and Eurasia. We are strictly working with the global soil partnership focal point of this country to ask them for their support to nominate a lab to be registered in the network from these countries in order to implement the activities of Rosalind in these countries as well and to receive experts from this country to share the knowledge implement activities and so on from different countries from both Europe and Eurasia. Moreover there are some countries which do not have the do not have the national reference lab nominated yet. These are on the right side of the screen both Europe and Eurasia. What is a national reference lab is a lab that is nominated by the focal point of the country in the global soil partnership and is the lab that is in charge of leading the establishment of national networks in the country of implementing the activities of Rosalind in the country and also to report to the regional governance to the regional so laboratory network chair and vice chair and the global and the Rosalind chair and vice chair and Rosalind coordinators about all the challenges and the issues facing the country so we can implement target activities target project to support these labs in the country to take all this issue. So as Luca mentioned the Rosalind is structuring in regional networks these are the Rosalind the regional so laboratory networks and it is one per region so we have Latin America we have lots of them in North America is still not established then we have in Europe as you know Rosalind then we have Ninalab from Near East and North Africa Afri Lab from the African countries a SEALnet is the regional network for Asia and then we have ASPAC in the Pacific all this regional network meets annually as you're doing today the other network did it like in the last weeks and Ninalab will do it tomorrow to renew the work plan share the needs and discuss about common project implement still each region is formed by countries so the idea now is to move a little bit forward and downscale more its activities and establish national networks to group together all laboratories operating in the same country to discuss about the common issues about and to try to solve together these issues by applying for project implementing activities and enlarge the number of laboratories to connect so the network can enlarge as well. These national laboratory networks also call Nasalan and the first task of course is to motivate other laboratories to join the network especially Rosalind so we can have more laboratories in the network and reach them with our activities and national networks can be a powerful tool to implement all the glossary activities and projects in the national level because once you have grouped all the laboratories in the in the country together they can be easily contacted to be informed about Rosalind trainings Rosalind SOPs equipment purchasing of opportunities and so on it also about again advertise about all the events meetings trainings and so on both at global at regional level and these meetings when you meet with your colleagues at in the national in the national context of course the first goal is to share the knowledge you know share the knowledge not only that one that you really have in your lab but also all the knowledge that you acquire during Rosalind and Rosalind meetings trainings and other sessions moreover of course you can discuss about what are the common chain challenge and needs of the labs within the country in order to find ways to solve this activity these challenges for instance by applying for projects together for implement targeted activities. One activity can be for instance the organization of APT or a proficiency test or call it interoperatory comparison ring test as you want but we're talking about APT you know so APT can be organized maybe easier in a national level that regional and global level because you know we have problems with customs sometimes even the soil types can be different from country to country region to region so it is possible that within the same country all labs are interested in certain soil parameters in analyzing certain soil types and so APT can be sometimes easier to to to to develop to to be organized within the country and in Rosalind can be a powerful tool to implement this activity of course one big task of the Rosalind is to actively communicate with the Rosalind governance and the global governance and the Rosalind coordinators in order to share the problems and also is very important to contact and be very active in communicating with the your focal point of your country within the global soil partnership you can because he's the he's really the one who can help you to implement activities we can support you in looking for financial resources so it's like a like a a team of cooperation we all will have to be informed in order to cooperate and find solution to the problems of the laboratories in the countries and each national network has a web page that we are publishing on the on the Rosalind website some countries already have their profile some we are still preparing the the web page and in this web page we report all the information of the national network and it's important that you as countries when you meet and you have new new activities new needs new information about your your country you let us know so we publish your information online so we can monitor the activities within the country and even donors can find easier like to mobilize resources to certain countries because they can be more aware about what is happening within the country in regards of celebratory and this is how the the platform look like there is if you go on Rosalind website it is on the left menu the item national celebratory network there is a drop down menu when you can select a country and if the country already informs us about the activity we create the web page if some country some countries are missing is because we are still waiting for information from them and we will follow up soon in this regard in the same web page you find two very important documents one is the terms of reference for the of the national network which can help you in defining and and know what are the tasks of the national network and we also have a nice document that is the guideline on how to establish an aslan and that really really can will can guide you in establishing this network and also contain some nice examples from other countries in the world that face different issues in establishing the national network so you can kind of refer to their experience to take all the problems that you may face in establishing your network there are different situations in in Europe in Eurasia so we have mainly three cases one in which the country didn't establish a national network yet but again please remember that we are here to help you me Lucrezia now all the global and the regional governance can help you to establish this network the the the reasons can be different can be that you have low number of laboratories in the country so it doesn't really make sense to group them together but in this case you can think to connect with the labs from the neighboring countries to create like an international network between like countries that are really close together and may have the same needs you may have communication problems so you cannot easily reach these countries you don't have really knowledge on who is operating in the country or you need more financial resources to implement these meetings still the covid teaches us that we can have at least this powerful tool of virtual meetings so for instance I have the first meeting of the network may be very easy because you can organize it online so it's just a matter of contact all the labs in the read or in the country and convince them to join this meeting and in order to discuss to know each other to discuss about very really about basic needs that you may have maybe you all may have issues with quality control so you may decide to organize together an external quality control among you labs in the same country then you contact us that may coordinate with the with the gsp focal point of your country to find the financial resources to organize this PT and this is happening in many countries I mean under we know that under establishment there are many nasa under establishment in many many countries turkish is an example turkey just last week they have the first meeting hungary is working on that as well but there are many other examples now I don't want to mention all of them because there are many but many countries in their inner ozone are working on this and please again let us know as soon as you have any update any photograph of the meeting any information about what you do so we can share with other countries in the region to serve as an example and encourage them to establish their network and to publish this information on the your country profile on our website even those countries which already have established their network please let us know again keep up keep us updated so we can we can update also your country profile and information on your nasa on our website and please always encourage other laboratories that you know are operating in your country which are not yet a member of gloss on to become a member of the network this is because they can then access all the training opportunities that we organize they can they can be informed about the standard operating procedures we publish and harmonize and many other activities so please uh we rely on you to share the the world on gloss on and to inform other laboratories in in your country in your region to to to become a member of the network we have many informative material online and again as look at summation if you want we can translate them in your national language just let us know we can work together on that that isn't the end of my presentation I thank you for your attention and I give the the the floor wait back to look at some but there are also some colleagues just a second so now we give the floor to the other colleagues of um uh gsp we have different uh speakers now we have I would start with the agp soil yeah okay so as mentioned at the beginning of the meeting under this item we will have the opportunity to hear about other initiative programs projects that are under implementation in the Rosalind region and that have a link to soil laboratories so we start from agp soil and we give the the floor to Andreas I think and no Andreas Andreas Baumgarten agp soil Austria yeah okay so thanks a lot I will try to share my screen with you um for this presentation just a moment so here we are okay so I hope everybody can see the screen now so I'm going to make a short presentation of the possibility that we offer in the European joint program soil which is a very big research project um with respect to access to infrastructure so actually uh what we what we intend to do is to offer um on the one hand a support for visiting scientists so this is in in the task 5.4 and to agp soil infrastructure which is which is in another task the the change or the difference here is that for the visiting scientists support you have to be part of the agp soil consortium because you only get partially a reimbursement but for the visits of the agp soil infrastructure there is also the possibility to get support if you are not agp soil partner so this is especially of course interesting for laboratories that are part of euro solan or even glossoland because um it's not only uh for visits for european or eurasian countries but also from overseas for example the main thing in this context is that uh the visits or the work that is done during this um different visits or supports is um in close link to the agp soil and the aims of the agp soil program so if you want to apply but i will come to this later if you want to apply for this uh you uh as opposed to first read the the aims of the agp soil program because your application has to fit in um so we have it both for researchers and non-research technical stuff and this is of course very important for our laboratory soil networks as i've said before we have on the one hand the visiting scientists support where we try to to strengthen the institutional partnership and networks with scientific joint work um and the second thing that is important for us is to facilitate the access on the one hand to agricultural soil research infrastructures and of course laboratories where the analytical work is going on and what we are aiming at is to support visitors financially to visit these laboratories for example they also we also support samplings we also support of course analysis and we have now started already um with the first application period for this visiting possibility for laboratories uh and this should include on the one hand knowledge exchange as well as training and soil analysis maybe also soil analysis that are not possible at your own home institution so for example if you are trying to adopt some of these new methods or these new SOPs that have been published you can you could check whether you find a respective laboratory where these um analysis are done and so you could apply for a visit there of course again it has to be um in line with the aims of the GP soil you could also visit long-term experiments but this is probably not of such an importance for for this group that we have here and we have an application site you can have a look under this um link and if you click on this link you get first a list of partner countries with long-term experiments but more important for us partner countries with laboratories and there you get on the one hand a very detailed information about the laboratories and you get also detailed information about contact persons all the procedures that are done there all the analytics that are done there we have not everything on the website but we have tables um excel tables that are supplied where you can have all the detailed information listed so that you can really check which laboratories are there and what are they doing now for the application procedure um we have twice a year application one in april and one in september the september unfortunately has stopped already so we have granted uh several visits um i think in in some they are seven seven visits have been granted for this period but we will we will start the next um in april of next year um so you find all the necessary information and the documents that are needed on our ejp so website uh and you have to supply them about two weeks before the launch of the call so this is the last possibility then the the calls are open for one month and the application can be uploaded and then they are forwarded to us and we check it with the supervising committee and we evaluate the scientific value of the visit which is important and as i've said before the compatibility with ejp so aims aims and scope and also relevance of the ejp so expected impacts so there has to be of course some connection to ejp so because otherwise it would make no sense for the program to to fund visits if there is no direct connection now what is covered uh we have no limit regarding the duration of the visit probably if we are visiting laboratories it's not so long some days to one week but we have a financial limit of 5000 euro per visit so this is the upper limit because we have only a limited amount of money available and to to make the possible to make it possible for as many people as possible to to to get access to this granting system we have limited the the amount of money available per visit to 5000 euro per visit so if you are a consortium member of ejp so you have some money out of the ejp so directly and so it's not possible for you to get any reimbursement so the the 100 percent reimbursement is only possible for for external visitors so we we cover equipment operation or other special costs for the host institution um these are not covered for the ejp so members so if you are a member of ejp so you have to organize these fundings for yourself and as i've said before it's not only for europeans it's also for non european countries and we have reserved a number of visits only for non european countries so for example in the current call there has been one visitor from from argentina for example granted to visit an lte now these are the templates that you can find i won't go into detail so you can have a look at it if you visit our website and of course we have then to have a final report of the visit so we want to learn what has been going on there and what what are the results and of course we need the invoices or tickets or hotel invoices or whatsoever so that we can figure out these the sound that is possible for reimbursement um for for 2022 we have planned now an extended application that is especially designed for laboratories because we've seen uh that for example specific samples or especially ring testing this is the work that well is is partially covered by the laboratories but not all the laboratories are able to to have the uh the financial support to do all these things so we we are going to offer support if you are interested in analysis of specific samples or the application of new methods in exchange with other laboratories so this is of course of interest for the SOPs that are now published by the FAO so if you are not familiar with these methods you can have the possibility to to get in exchange with other laboratories to compare the methods and of course the participation in ring tests as long as it is in some connection to the HEP soil so we will have a separate application for these laboratory things it probably will be very comparable to the current ones and the evaluation process will be also similar the only thing is we will have to have an individual contract with the respective laboratories so we are currently setting up the text of this individual contract and as I've said before all this will be available for the next call in April 2022 so if you have further questions you can contact my colleague Katarina Moira from SLU or myself and I will be happy to ask any questions if you have some so thanks a lot many many thanks Andrea that was uh very interesting to hear um I would like to open in this case I would like to open the floor for questions so you again your participants can either like write questions in the top or raise their hand I see your hands up already Chris can please yes hello Andreas and thank you very much for this very interesting presentation you know that we are and I will speak after this about the laboratory intercomparisons and that one of our concern is to be sure that the people really work in the same way so and we would like also to organize trainings to as you mentioned increase the skills for some specific analysis and so I think what you propose is exactly what we need to have a place where the people can be trained and discuss together spend time and so on so I have a question is it because you spoke also about Argentina so this means any country in the world not only Europe yeah can okay yeah so the only thing as I've pointed out before is that you that we really see the connection to the HAP soil program so if the outcome is something where we can say okay this is something that fits within HAP soil then there is no limits to to visit us whatsoever yeah so I think we have to think about this probably after that meeting to keep in touch and I think especially with not many who is leading the Glossaland moment and the future chair and vice-chair and participant of the Oro Solan network because I think what you propose is exactly what we would like to find a place where the people can meet take them to work together take them to find the consensus on the way to work and you mentioned ring test interlaborate comparison organizing it and I will speak about this in my presentation so perhaps we can speak again later but your presentation was cheering for what we are doing thank you very much that's good to hear yeah so maybe as I've said before we are just preparing the the call for next year which is really specifically aimed at laboratories and things like you have mentioned just but maybe we can beforehand we can get in contact and maybe you you could tell us what what are the needs and we can try to figure out how it fits into our program and so maybe we can have something that is really tailored I would say to what we are aiming at yeah with pleasure okay I don't want to take too much time now because the time is short but probably in the next days we will contact you and ask some practical questions on the way to do this thank you very much thank you for your question I see that also Georgie would like to ask a question or please Georgie yeah thank you just I would just to comment shortly about HGP third project so and say thank you to Andreas Balguarten for his efforts and really lots of things before this day because the whole Austrian team especially was highly interested in getting more in touch with Aerosolam and Glossolam in general and we were involved on these processes and we are informed about all steps they took by HGP third project even very beginning it's very beginning I was visiting Vienna and they organized very nice meeting in Vienna at Akkes so I just want to express gratitude by name of Aerosolam and personally also from myself for this very good interaction and collaboration and we are all informed always regarding meetings we are attending meetings and sharing also all information with the members and many members who were willing to participate had opportunity to access all data and all this information which was just shared by Andreas so many thanks for this and I think this great opportunity for Aerosolam and very much the one we are willing to have so thanks a lot you're welcome is there any other question anyone else would like to take the floor just make a reflection this is your time otherwise we will be following up by email and definitely Andrea let's work together because the connections are many and we can really help each other if there is no one else that wish to take the floor maybe we pass to the next presentation that will be given by I believe Carolina or Silvia I don't remember yeah Silvia sorry my mind to talk about the Global Soil Doctor Programme the Global Soil Doctor Programme the floor is thank you very much yes I'm speaking today on behalf of Carolina I hope you can see the screen first I would like to thank the organizers for giving me the opportunity to present today the implementation activities of the Global Soil Doctor Programme and to explain how Aerosolam could collaborate and be an active part of this process but let me briefly give you an overview of the program the the Global Soil Doctor is a farmer to farmer training system that aims not only to increase awareness on farmers about sustainable soil practices but also want to provide the proper tools to achieve this goal and these tools include educational material and also a soil testing kit for preliminary assessment of soil conditions but I will talk about it later on one of the strengths of this program is the cooperation between the Global Soil Partnership at the global level and the regional and local institutions and stakeholders however the key figure in this program is for sure the soil doctor which serves as a link between the local promoter and the farmer also in a long-term perspective we hope then here you can see that I reported one of the results from the questionnaire that has been submitted to identify possible promoters all over the world and you can see we received the responses from many countries including Europe which accounted for nearly 18 percent of interested promoter after that I would like to show you this table that refers to the implementation activities that have already started and those that are about to start you can see that there are no European region yet but we are really looking forward to start pilots also in Europe you may notice that also the topic of the training will be different according to the to the countries as well as the number of the trainers and the doctors to be trained this is because this program is a very flexible framework that can easily adapt to the countries needs resources and also capabilities of course then yes we have also developed a series of informative posters related to different soil topics that have been translated into all our official languages but also to very local languages like Chichewa and to Bukka for Africa for example yeah I would like to stress this this thing because the the posters are going to be maybe the most effective tool for reaching the farmer in their own countries so we need it to be inclusive as much as possible and also accessible for for everyone right but let's move to the more practical aspects of this program that may involve you more directly as I mentioned before we are developing an educational soil kit for a broad qualitative assessment of soil physical chemical and biological properties so to do so we are including different basic tools and materials for determining specific soil features and you will see that some of these features like organic matters and root status can be assessed just visually so no tools are needed while others like soil pH and carbonates needs specific reagents and that's where your collaboration might be very helpful in fact it would be great if the laboratories could provide us with some reagents for a specific assessment like mild acid for carbonates or simply hydrogen peroxide for the determination of organic matter and other more specific reagents like for for example those for pH and be remind that in some countries we may use simply baking soda and vinegar just to get a broad evaluation of pH conditions but it would be better to have proper reagents this is just a visual summary of how we wanted the kit to be to look like and as you see there are very basic tools that can be easily used in the field from the farmers and that these tools are included into this backpack okay so finally I would like to show some key points to define other possible aspects of our future collaboration I hope as I mentioned we as a GSP we can provide the empty containers to be filled with the specific reagents from from the lab moreover the laboratory the laboratories could support the program by carrying on some specific soil analysis that can complement the assessment with the soil kit and get some more informative and valuable and reliable information and evaluation of soil conditions as you know we would like also to develop a series of posters related to soil laboratory analysis because even if farmers can access the local laboratories for analysis it it's not always clear for them what to analyze what to look for and especially how to analyze the interpret to the results which I believe is the most important outcomes from from a soil analysis then we would like also to your cooperation regarding the development of indicators on crop requirements and also to identify some plants deficiency symptoms and of course all other suggestions from your side that can improve the program are more than more than welcome I would like just to thank you for your interest and if you have any questions suggestions comments you can write it in the chat or contact me by email at this email address so thank you very much once again thank you very much Silvia for your presentation again please if you have any question you can write your hand or write it in the chat and we will answer otherwise we move to the next presentation unfortunately Yuzuf that is what I think you all know Yuzuf is our gsp data management and mapping expert and actually to open the discussion on the possibility to link in team with gloss around so basically to talk about data quality in mapping processes and data management um Pilipo do we have the slides of Yuzuf? I didn't forward us yet I'm trying to contact him but he's not answering so maybe we can move forward and then come back to him if he's coming otherwise maybe I can without the slides um I can just okay and I think that Maria Santa Pei is with us right Maria so maybe you can also help us and maybe many many other members of the ECR here yes yes but I didn't prefer no we got the preparation basically just the idea was that of basically explaining everybody how maps are prepared now so basically the role of NC and how national maps are prepared and then compile no so basically uh the mandate to prepare the maps so these have the mandate to prepare the maps and then linking to that uh making the connection laboratories now like seeing ways to to link the two so if you want to say a few words on how otherwise I'll do it as you as you prefer well I I can just say by my experience what we have done for Italy and so also what we are doing in a Gepisari which is something that is uh somehow linked uh also I had a presentation some days ago during the European soil of the stakeholder meeting and I made a reference to FAO and pillar 4 and pillar 5 activities so may I can just speak about this so I think that the main point which is essential and this for me our best practice is the approach which is a country driven approach for the mapping of global partnership so the the countries itself organize and the national focal point nominate some expert depending on the map that is going to be produced and so this expert is leading I mean the group in the country who is organizing the practical activity of collecting data and then performing the mapping and so but what is common are the methods so cookbooks are produced for methods to be followed to map so that this map are not different I mean they they they have a common method so so to have a kind of a standardization but in this moment what is maybe the problem that we would like also to face in a Gepisari is that the basic data are not harmonized so you can have different analysis analytical method that as a product that there can be some transboundary problems between countries and so what we were we would like to do and we are starting to do in a Gepisari is also some harmonization activity between different methods applied in the countries so to have some in the basic data some transformation functions between methods that I see that you also are willing to do so it's interesting this so to not to do the job after the mapping because you can any any way do the job after but it would be better to have this before on the basic data so to have the maps already harmonized in between countries so I don't know if this can be useful for you but I think that too the two pillars are very linked the activity of the you are doing of harmonization and certainization is very linked to the the mapping in this sense so to have some harmonized products in the countries between countries Grazie Maria and we found the presentation of Yuzu that basically well it just connected to all you said Philippo maybe can you put it on screen because I don't see it on the drive yet so Yuzu prepared a few slides in which we basically introduced the INSI so this international network of also information institutions that indeed as the Monday to prepare the maps and also discuss the preparation of the maps each country has a representative in INSI and basically they have to find the data and prepare the maps the challenges that you that Maria just mentioned are also the one reported on on these slides so there are problems of insufficient data fresh data meaning new data many times maps are prepared using all data data often are also not harmonized between countries so they are reported in different units of measure obtained using different methods and so on and also there are uncertainty related to the quality of the data indeed one of the wishes that the Yuzu told me that also Glossam would like to see reflected in the maps is that of adding information on the inserted insert of the data in the maps go to the next slide please this presentation also reports some proposals on how in this case INSI can support the Glossam so INSI can support Glossam by developing the infrastructure for storing serving and exchanging soil lab information and the spectral services and this can be done through Glossam so through the global soil information system then they can also help us by implementing the harmonization of laboratory data using results of Glossam so basically I honestly I didn't understand much of this point but I think that the fact that they would use our harmonized for example promotes the use of of the harmonized and then they can again they can help us on capacity building on data processing and storing mapping and modeling uh next slide on the other side Glossam can support INSI by providing strength measure data acting in the quality of the data so implementing activities on quality assurance and quality control and ultimately harmonizing data next slide so this is a proposal on how we can work together maybe we can have a joint working group and in terms of connecting Glossam and INSI at all levels the proposal would be that of sharing Glossam and INSI information with the two networks so looking at at our network so Glossam maybe I can send to each of you information on your representative in INSI so the institution that is responsible for preparing the map of your country and then we can use a country approach so we follow up and overcoming obstacles in potential collaborations looking at each country situation this was the last slide right there yeah so I don't know what you think about it for me like sharing contact information would be the first step so I send you I will send you information of your on your INSI representative and maybe I will inform your INSI representative on on you so basically on all the laboratories that are in Glossam from from specific countries I see that miss Vinci would like to talk miss Vinci yes please yes hello do you hear me yes good morning okay good morning I'm a colleague of Maria Fantapia we don't work in the same institution but I work in a regional soil service that works in an environmental protection agency in the Veneto region in Italy we are connected with Maria and other colleagues working on a soil monitoring project and hypothesis for it for Italy since in Italy we don't have a national institution all the work done on soil is done in within the regions and so we don't have one national laboratory we have many regional laboratories but these are connected into our society we call it SILPA this society of soil laboratory that are not only public also private working in many regions in Italy and that the work for soil science also for agriculture for farms and we just had a reunion meeting last week in Italy and some of these laboratories were present and we are performing already many years that this society performs a ring test a national ring test and many of these laboratories participate also to international ring tests like the one of the Wageningen University the VEPA called VEPA now we are testing some new methodologies for assessing soil organic carbon since the workly black method is going to be dismissed because of environmental problems but we know that this could be difficult in other countries that do not have so many possibilities to chances to buy very expensive instrumentation but in Italy we have seen that many laboratories have bought these new instruments that are that with different temperature allowed to assess organic carbon in an inorganic carbon together easier way and safer way for the environment also for the laboratory personnel so yeah the only thing I wanted to say was this so to let you know the experience in Italy and the reason why we don't have a national laboratory yet thanks thanks Halina for sharing this this like the context in Italy we will contact in order to even if there is not a national lab to to collaborate with the national network that it was already established so we can join the efforts even regarding the the standard operating procedure you are using maybe we can even try to translate those that close on the German eyes in Italian so labs can use this and this is procedure we use is German at the procedure and I think it's uh it's going to be a European standard so this is quite known many countries in Europe I mean I don't know worldwide but and so well our laboratory has subscribed the list of bloats and laboratories so we are but I don't know how many other laboratories I see how it's so for Italian laboratories where so we're in the list so I don't know which are the others it's possible to have a list of the laboratories yeah sure I will I will send you an email after the meeting so we can follow up on this because it's not available on the net uh is it so yeah there is a we have the map on the gross on website where all the labs are reported but I will I will share with you maybe we can have a I will write an email so we can maybe you didn't have a meeting with all the Italian labs in glossolan and these also I call for all the countries if you want to have more information on the labs from your country registered in the network please let us know so we can update you so you can communicate with them see dirt you also is as an end up I don't know if you see if he's for now I want thank you I would just to comment very shortly regarding this idea to have some interactions between glossolan and NC network so this is very important for in my case so for example in georgia this is advantage that I'm also representing in sea so our institution so this is sometimes good that there's no extra people to communicate with but also in other terms it's of course lots of responsibilities and lots of things to be done but even in our case then so we are the institution who is creating data so analyzing data and also making maps so even in our case it was necessary to even to reorganize data how they are stored and arranged because to have it's ready for mapping sometimes laboratory may not have it in the way that it can be directly used for mapping activities so there can be missing data like georeference data so coordinates and some other necessary things even sometimes method may not be indicated and then it's difficult to understand how comparable those data are even inside the country and the region so in that terms I think this communication and some working group may be very very useful so thank you just and did I also think we should establish a working group and glossolan eventually should have a say on on the data used for the maps no also in terms of recommended methods that well we should propose data owner to use okay if there are no other questions or interventions I would move to the last presentation of this item that I hope you will find interesting because it talks about financial resource mobilization but usually it's effective let me share my screen okay this is just to provide you some background on the financial resources available to glossolan so as you know glossolan is an initiative of the global soil partnership and as such it works as the global soil partnership meaning that it's a self-financed initiative we don't receive any financial support from FAO so all the budget we have allocated for the implementation of glossolan refers to projects granted to the global soil partnership and in this regard most of the budget is allocated to the implementation of global activities at the national and regional level we have very very few projects that result from the type of project that I will tell you about now so linking to this I would like to ask all glossolan members to please make an effort to mobilize financial resources for the implementation of activities in your country and region of course we will help but please do not wait for us to do all the work okay we should work together and in this regard the glossolan coordinator in this case me but also your regional soil partnership coordinator can help you in preparing the concept notes and submit them to donors but let's look at the donor in particular so FAO so how to approach FAO as the donor so approaching FAO as a donor does not mean to submit concept notes or request for financial support to the global soil partnership because as I just told you the GSP is not a donor however laboratories and governments countries and so can approach FAO as a donor by asking for technical cooperation programs projects so these are called TCP projects I myself follow up on the preparation of this type of projects for soil laboratory activities and usually in these projects we we put the soil laboratories together with mapping activities we work together so this is just to report to example of TCP that were granted in the last years at present we have a regional TCP for the Near East and North Africa that started in October 2020 and we have 400 000 dollars budget to provide trainings in 12 countries in the region so it's quite good again we have a national TCP in Liberia in this case the budget is a bit higher because it also deals with procurement of laboratory equipment so we are procuring equipment and we are providing training and at the same time as I told you we also do mapping activities and work on the establishment of the national soil information system so this is just to tell you that getting these funds for soil laboratory activities is very possible so please keep it into consideration and and let's work on it together because the time to ask for this type of project is now how to apply for a TCP project well first of all you need to have a clear idea of what you want in terms of activities and the final objective of your work now so if you would like and if you need myself but also other experts in the in the team in the glosalon team can help you in formulating your your proposal and once you have the activities and objective clear in mind you should liaise with your government for the preparation of an official letter requesting for a TCP project to submit to the FAO office either your country FAO office if you have one well this is not really the case of Europe because FAO offices are not really present in Europe at the national level or if you want to apply for a regional TCP which means like a project that involves more countries you should address your request at the regional FAO office in in your region so the letter should mention the problem challenged by your country then the the request for a TCP project with a note on how the TCP will help to tackle the problem challenge and in this case I would kindly ask you to please put me and your regional soil partnership coordinator in copy so that we can follow up internally with FAO on on the submission of your request so once that your request is received by by the FAO office we can start preparing the project document again this is something you cannot do by yourself because there is a template to use and some parts of this template well basically can be completed only by FAO stuff so again I can help you on this your regional soil partnership coordinator can help you and in this case we will also work with the TCP office officer at the FAO office you submitted your request so by working all together we will get to finally have a project document that we can submit to the FAO office and then we wait for for approval and eventually we start the implementation of the project now I told you that this is the time to ask for this type of project because these projects are assigned every two years and right now we are at the end of the biennium so if you want to get any project in the coming year we should apply for it now so in this regard there are specific deadlines to to follow so also when you you send the the representative of your government or your national focal point send the request for a TTP project they should also ask for deadlines in relation to the writing of project proposal also or if you put me in copy for example I will follow up on this these projects provide the maximum of $500,000 you cannot ask or get more than this amount of funds however the activities that we can include in this type of proposal can can be gradual now so maybe we get a first project now and kick off activities meanwhile access needs and those include as one of the activities in the project proposal the writing of a second phase project proposal so that after the end of the TCP project we are getting now we can apply for another one and complete the implementation of the activities we have in mind on average this project last one one and a half years so if we started the next year so in 2022 it would end like in July or August 2023 so I will make this presentation available online so you can download it and think about it the most important things to do now if I trigger your interest is really to think about anything you need eventually connected also to for example mapping activities establishment of national information systems or you know like broader it a bit think at your country so maybe you can work on this together with other laboratories in your country and ask your government to submit the official letter requesting for a TCP this is critical without letter you cannot get the project I don't know if there is any question this was the end of my presentation if you also write it in the chat I will answer any question you might have on TCP projects if not I will pass the floor to let me see who is next in the agenda uh Filippo over to you for Eurosa and main needs yes thanks Lucretia I think there are some comments in the chat so maybe in the meanwhile you can have a look I will answer so we don't get late on the agenda good um I will briefly talk now about the Rosola main need these needs are all the data that I will report now are the outcomes of a survey that has been launched in the last weeks before the before this meeting and to get some knowledge about what are the main needs and challenges of the network and to to get these data together and to present them now to let's say to use them as a base to discuss then about the what are the needs of the of the network and to establish a work plan the survey was completed by all these countries in the in the in the upper part of the screen 13 countries answered and I want to thank you once again for the submission of the data um yeah basically uh again like what is the I want to briefly go through the who answered this question here so basically mainly we have uh governmental data governmental labs and public uh labs from the research institute as well and and mainly from university still 20 percent are from the private sector then we have uh with the first question we ask was if labs were involved or at least informed about all the activities happening in the global and the regional level and most of them say yes um few of them say no so this means that there is a little bit of little necessity to improve the communication within the regional network and moreover uh most of the people stated that to not be to not have a direct communication with the resulant governance and again this means that um the communication within between the the resulant chair and vice chair and the members in the network should be strengthened and we will discuss this also in the last item of the of the of this meeting during the uh governance when we talk about the governance of the region we were wondering if laboratories participated in the previous resulant meetings so this is the third one we have already two in 2019 and 2020 and most of you didn't uh most of the of the labs at least that answered the survey didn't uh attend previous resulant meetings these also can because uh you are new in the network so maybe you didn't you were not part of the network when these meetings took place but all of those labs that attend the resulant meetings stated that it was a really useful experience for different reasons because there of course is a way to share the knowledge uh to give some trainings as look at some mentioned in the previous years we also got training session during the meeting while this year we kind of divided the session we have a resulant meeting just to take decisions and then uh training sessions in a different days and different topics uh it is a good way to networking between colleagues from this from different countries and I like common challenges and it's a good way of course to inform and be informed about the resulant activities and to implement these activities within the region and in the countries uh I'm presenting this not because not just to to share this this data but really to to inform why it's important to to organize this meeting because also we want to improve and now we will we know that uh let's say most of the people appreciate these uh this this nice objective of the meeting so we would like to uh improve the next meeting according to the needs of the region uh we were always also were wondering if labs uh joined already a PT uh in the region and most of the labs in the region actually already joined a proficiency test uh in different contexts can be organized by the one organized by Glozolin 2019 and let's look at some mentioned there is another one uh taking place in 2021 she should uh you should have received an email about that so we are uh collecting some missions for labs who want to join the Glozolin PT of 2021 and other organizer can be both national and international level we briefly also investigated what are the main needs of the of the region uh in order to implement and and target its work plan both at the global and regional level which may face uh may this may face this topic to help laboratories to to solve these these challenges that they are having now so one of the main needs of the region is the adoption of more modern methods and we have an example of size petroscopy and as you know Glozolin is organizing a different training session on this topic tomorrow will be the last uh session for the first slot of webinars on size petroscopy other session will be organized in the beginning of 2022 all information are available on Glozolin website by the way another great need main need of the region is the harmonization of SOPs and as you know is one of the main activity of Glozolin and many of you many of the people in the region are working on on these almost in all working groups of SOPs that Glozolin is currently harmonizing there is a representative from Europe or Eurasia so there is a let's say great participation in the SOP harmonization already in from the region and other needs regards internal external quality control or and training training on different topics for this reason we were wondering also what are the main topics for training that are mostly needed in the region and these regard mostly SOPs again and and we will try to implement training session on the standard operating procedures both on dry and wet chemistry and again if some of you feel like to support as trainer for certain procedures please let us know there are already some trainers from the region who are helping us in organizing trainings for instance Maya from Croatia will support us in in the training session on lateral conductivity that will take place in few weeks but if anyone else would like to support us with this more than welcome just write that as an email so we can organize training session also on the other topics that are mostly needed in the region so internal quality control and and equipment maintenance last part of the survey regard the the support that labs are receiving from the regional governments because this is of course related on with the finance services mobilization as look at such as mentioned and so first we were wondering if labs talk that governments both at national and regional scales were aware about the key role of soil laboratories in producing good soil data and we know that this good soil data with quality data are needed to produce map and then to make decisions at both national and regional level and the outcome of this of this question was that okay we should close and should work on inform more the government about this of the of the work done by laboratories we already produced some informative material that can be used to inform governments and we are working and we work to produce more more over we were also wondering what is the kind of relation between labs and the national and regional governments and most of labs that answer the survey didn't have any do not have any interaction with the government while some others receive a different type of support can be technical economical or political support but again we think that inform more the the governments about the rule of labs may facilitate the allocation of finance resources for laboratories and development of policies to facilitate your work in the lab and another main outcome of the survey is that most of labs that answered the survey think that Jerusalem may facilitate the rule of communicating between the laboratories and the governments of the countries to inform them about your needs their your work your role in in producing this data on soil parameters and and this of course can even facilitate the mobilizing of financial resources for labs so I thank you for your attention this was just a very quick presentation to introduce you to this big topic of the regional need I will now give the floor I think to Christian uh unless let's say I want to take the floor because uh Christian Hartman is a glossary advisor from Ireland in France and he's always helping glossary organizing pts and he will give you a short presentation on this topic so Christian the floor is yours yeah thank you very much so I will open my presentation here it is yeah you have it in full screen yes okay what I'm going to I'm going to make a short presentation about the possibility to organizing an interlaboratory proficiency testing interlaboratory reason of proficiency testing that has also been called I think ring test previously because you have seen that the glossolan is providing many documents SOPs and video explaining how to use the visibility SOPs recommendation etc to have the laboratories working in the same way worldwide and being able to provide results but how can we know how can you be sure to perform correctly according to the recommendations that have been made and also in a comparable way and this is a key issue because I think in Europe many labs have already high quality but the question now is how are the results comparable and how much is the comparability so to have this information it's important for the labs to participate to interlaboratory comparison for themselves to check the performances and also to assess the comparability compared to the other laboratories over participants not only in the region but also worldwide so in the past they have been already already two regions that have organized interlaboratory comparison that was asian and latin america we have already had a discussion with this region to say that it's important not only to have one comparison but to organize it on a regular basis because the performances you have one day were not sure to have the same after so you need to train a regular basis and check the performance on a regular basis so the objective of the discussion now is to see how we could organize a first interlaboratory comparison in europe and also to discuss about the way it will be possible to do it on a regular basis to have different comparisons in the future to do this we need what is called pt providers is in fact laboratories able to prepare the soil samples in a way it can be used for such comparison interlaboratory comparison so the need that glossolan has is to find not only motivated labs but also skilled labs labs able to prepare the sample in that specific way organizing this interlaboratory comparison has a very limited cost compared to the the budget we have seen in the different presentation but perhaps you need some specific instrument that also very cheap in fact and in also every lab can learn how to be a pt provider anyway every lab should prepare samples in the way to have internal quality control so in the all the documents that the glossolan has already produced and delivered there is a guide a basic guidelines for preparing the samples for internal quality control so as we would like to have a discussion on which laboratories laboratories could be pt provider i would just remind quickly what has been presented in in that guideline these are the different subjects in the guideline so we'll just have a quick look so the first step is the sample preparation when you need to collect soil diversified type of soil of course to be able to test the laboratories in the range of results they have to produce drying desegregation and miling sieving etc this is the first step and at the at the end of the first step you should get results soil samples that are just like presented here and have five ten fifteen twenty kilos the in the sample process there is also the after the sample preparation there is also the homogenization you see this is the tool that the british geological survey is using and this is how the samples that we have the the pt that we mentioned about the carbon content has been prepared you see something very simple that many labs could prepare by themselves and also you need to subdivide this big amount of soil that you have with that specific device that is made only of steel sheets and that is also very easy to buy very cheap to buy or easy to prepare so you have a big amount of subsamples that should also be homogeneous of course this homogeneity has to be tested so you can analyze a sample a certain amount of of these small subsamples for one parameter and to statistically analyze the result to see if you have the homogeneity you are expecting or if you have to improve the preparation after this there is a step of packaging and and labelling this can do be done by hand or with some specific machines we know that in in europe generally the cost labor cost is quite high so it's easier to do it with a machine of cheap not easier but cheaper to do it with a machine but it can also be prepared by hand and there is an aspect of labeling that has to be discussed with FAO for each type of of interlaboratory comparison and network the labels will be a little bit different but there will be recommendations and also as this has to be prepared in advance to organize the intercomparison the laboratory the volunteer laboratories have to think about the storage and of course also about the confidentiality the samples better will be used of course everything must remain confidential for for these samples and so as we need to organize a first interlaboratory comparison inside europe we need pt providers sole providers and we would like to launch a discussion to know which laboratory are volunteer to do the job and i think this is especially important because as we have seen 40 percent of the lab have not yet participated to such interlaboratory comparison but 60 percent have done it know very well how the system works and could become volunteer pt providers so thank you for your attention and let's see which laboratory would be interested to to work as a pt provider thank you thanks thanks a lot christian for this presentation i think the you launched very good inputs so let's see if someone want to take the floor on these to add something or on this pt organization in europe or asia so if you have any inputs or want to share your point of view please use the chart or raise your hand we can give you the floor and the presentation that andrea made was very inspiring for different things because uh becoming a pt provider even this we could organize a training among the different labs that are interested because this this interlaboratory comparison have to be done it's the only way to prove that the labs are working in in a good way and also to see the comparability we have spoken about incy and the the data that i use for a map we need also to know what is the uncertainty associated with analytical work not only with a computer processing of providing the maps but also what are the uncertainty related to analytical uh analytical work and we have heard about italy that is using setting up a national network and buying the samples to wepa if i remember correctly but this is something that could be produced anyway all the labs should have internal quality control and i have seen that some labs would be would like to be trained for internal quality control the first thing is you need to have your testing samples so this is the first step that i think a training about this is absolutely necessary for all the labs even if all the labs do not want to be involved in that big work of homogenization preparing 20 kilos of samples or lapelling packaging or something like this but even if the samples are provided and sent to as we did to the british geological survey that will make the work it's okay but it's good that the skills are transferred and that there is a capacity building all around the region you have seen how big is the euro salon it's all west europe and going to eurasia so they are so many different soil types it's extremely important that uh glossolan can get soils such diversified soils and be able to analyze it on a large scales yes indeed like and let me remember that we have glossolan published some documents on both preparation on preparation both sample for internal quality control and proficiency tests all these guidelines are on the web gloss on our website maybe i will put now the link to this document in the chat so you can have a look and and know how to prepare your reference samples for internal quality control and as christian mentioned and as we saw from the survey outcomes i think it's very important to organize trainings on internal and external quality control and we will try to implement this by the end of the year or or at least by the beginning of 2022 so we will inform you as soon as we organize these trainings and if someone feels like to help us in giving the training please let us know we can do it in different languages in languages that you prefer and so let us know please and i see in the chat that joao i mentioned that he still have some samples from last that the sdpt that was supposed to be held last year but due to covid was uh cancelled so also that one christian can be we can start from from this input maybe yeah this is why unfortunately covid of course has stopped so many activities and for the glossolan we started to work with joao and thank you very much to him good to see him first and thank you to him for all all the discussions we had to prepare the cells and finally we have not been able to to use them and this situation show how important it is to make a capacity building a skills transfer to different regions that we are able to face any any difficulties of transportation people not being able to go and lab in in the work and in the lab and so on so it's very important to to set up something very quickly you don't say question from you christian yeah yeah i i just saw the question from maria and yes wepal is an excellent pt provider and we are working with them so i am even surprised not to see we need today but perhaps she's very busy because she has joined all our meetings until now and they are excellent that we are working with them but as i mentioned it's a capacity building that we would like a knowledge transfer because if we want to organize something with glossolan we're discussing here with europe but the idea is also to have pt provider for all the world and you see the amount of soil is so important the preparation it has to be done on a volunteer basis we cannot rely only even if wepal is coming from vagan ingan university and the cost is kept as low as possible the idea between glossolan is to have collaboration helping each other and so we need to reduce the cost if we want to make three rounds every year with four samples you see this and and uh i don't remember if lucacia mentioned the number of samples that we have prepared this number of sets they have 300 sets that will be prepared but we have already 700 laboratories that are registered so this is a huge amount we will probably not be able to organize for the global level every year that this is why also it's important that the regions organize their own pt and after this there is a coordination and harmonization between the different regions and i think the europe has probably the most advanced laboratories for the quality because there are many controls many government have made the controls of a quality install laboratories mandatory so i think the glossolan really need these laboratories to participate and the benefit for them is to see the comparability inside europe and this is where glossolan can have a unique input even for a region just like europe europe when i meant europe i mean eurasia too of course on the map we have seen from atlantic to pacific because this this is probably where we have the highest number of skilled labs for that activity but the benefit for them will be also to have a comparability among them in all that big region and among all of the regions and laboratories in the world yeah thanks christian for sharing for stressing this i think the main key message of your contribution now is that glossolan activities are available for free so this is one of the one of the main point of the network is that we organize training for free and we aim to have to organize to find financial resources to allow labs to join the pt for free and the second is the cooperation of course i mean like the idea is that to share samples to share knowledge even many university labs from europe have received samples from different parts of the world through the through international students so maybe useful to share samples from different parts of the world during the pt as well so i don't know if there are any any more contribution i propose to follow up on the on the inputs from joao and yeah and start thinking again to organize a regional pt soon as we have already the pt from portugal yeah we will follow up on this we can organize a working group coordinating on this yeah and following up also the training on internet quality control okay thank you anymore joji has a question yeah please just to comment shortly also on this also in our laboratory so we are preparing our internal quality control samples but of course this is very small amount which is sufficient for us and we have more simple tools and smaller tools to do this and okay i don't know how good we are in this but we try to do our best so in case we will get some support in terms of also knowledge and the better arrangement of the equipment which can be used for a larger amount of samples so we would like to be involved so we can do this so we have sufficient space and staff members to use this equipment so we will need just some training and also some guidelines regarding proper preparation of the or selection of the equipment which which helps to do it in a right way thank you very much this is very good to hear this thanks georgie and i i think perhaps philippo after this meeting we can make a small working group at least with joao and georgie and see if all the countries because i think perhaps some lab managers or laboratories have to think about it and discuss with their staff and some other labs can be interested later on but at least we have two countries with very different soul types and we we can start with this so thank you very much for volunteering in it thanks again thanks a lot to all of you i think we can proceed to the next item if there is no any other inputs on this on this on this topic well now the next item is about the gloslan at the rosaline position in in gloslan so i think look at see and you can start and then then i will i can continue if you can show your screen or you want me to do yeah let me share my screen philippo i'm working with the drive on the drive i already lost connection once i can you see my screen sure please okay so as usual we have to discuss the position of rosaline in glossy in of rosaline in glosaline to be presented by the rosaline chair at the next glosaline meeting we will start from the hottest topic in the agenda that is the decision on the next SOPs for glosaline to harmonize this is just to remind you that so far priority was given to soil chemical parameters so in 2020 glosaline started to work on soil physical and biological parameters now as i told you in item one still so far they we've focused on the most important parameters for soil fertility and on the most used methods in the world this is an overview of the SOPs we have being and are harmonizing at present so you saw as you can see we started with a few methods in 2018 and we increased the number of methods harmonizing 2019 out of the ones in the list we decided to postpone the harmonization of the melee three methods to 2020 in order to include also micro and macro nutrients and still we have we face some delays on the harmonization of the SOP online mineral nitrogen but that's also coming in 2020 the list of SOPs to harmonize is massive but we are getting there so as i told you at the beginning we aim to have all these SOPs published by the end of the year just a reflection five years after the establishment of glosaline we might be ready to make a step forward and start working on those methods that are less frequently used but have lower risk for the human health and the environment i hope you browse through our glosaline web page but this is just to remind you that in the page dedicated to the SOPs there is also a reflection on the risk for human health and the environment related to the implementation of these methods now so far all the methods we harmonize have medium to high levels of risk so just again a reflection before we really decide what SOPs to propose to glosaline maybe we might start looking into more sustainable methods and these also links to the fact that often the glosaline secretariat if we like to call it like that receive a request for support from laboratories and indeed laboratories ask us what methods to use for analyzing certain soil parameters of course we tell them to rely on this table but the problem is again we all have methods with medium to high levels of risk as usual while we propose the SOPs that were harmonized next year we also identify regional leaders that can have take the leadership on their monetization on the SOPs this is just to remind you what the regional leaders do so they contribute to prepare the SOP matrix that is the excel table that we ask all glosaline members to complete to complete every year basically and there is one matrix per each method and the matrix inquire on the procedures implemented in each laboratory for a certain method then the regional leader should harmonize the information in the matrix from their region contribute to the global harmonization of the information and ultimately contribute to draft review finalize the glosaline SOP each SOP as a regional leader that also serves as a global leader basically this global leader is the one that takes the overall responsibility for the writing of that SOP now we open the discussion we hope to not make it too long because this is the toughest part of the meeting usually on screen i reported that the decisions made at the aphrodite seal net and rossalon meeting that already took place so just for your information and also inspiration we will start from chemical parameters so if you have any suggestions on the SOPs for chemical parameters that glosaline should work in 2021 2022 i don't remember what's to help me on this let me check the agenda georgi i think also spela can help you yeah georgi and spela can you please moderate this session so i will write but if you could help help to get the input that would be highly appreciated yes we will try thank you thank you yeah for if we take just from the example what we see from latzola for example in case of acid soils especially it is very important to have exchangeable acidity it's from the then i'm also reading in the chat today say loss of ignition yes this is another important parameter or methods for very important parameter like organic carbon so everybody is welcome to take the floor or write in the chat now just to make it clear for those that are new to this in terms of safety it's very good especially and the low cost of assessment especially for farmers when it's no there's no need to have a very precise result organic carbon by dry combustion is dumas method right no this is another one so that compassion we over here this is loss on ignition just in muffled furnace so just by heating without any additional treatment ah so but organic carbon by dry combustion is the same of total carbon by loss of ignition joe if you want to take the floor also now okay so i add this other one joe i think you have your end up if you want to yes sorry uh i think that uh loss on ignition in a furnace is not for total carbon but it's for organic matter yeah yeah organic carbon yeah uh organic matter yes not organic carbon but anyway not only but okay it's a loss of mass by ignition um another group of methods it's uh the iron and aluminum oxides by oxalides yeah or by sodium citesites and deuteneate deuteneate deuteneate i don't know yeah deuteneate yeah can you write in the chat for for my ignorant oxides only oxides only there are two reference methods but it's probably uh by what method by ammonium oxalate or pyrophosphate or sodium citrate and not with pyrophosphate and cbd okay they are not so used as this but i i rake or by pyrophosphate so yes pyrophosphate okay thank you joe and also whoever took the floor that i didn't see it's maritela from cirade ah thank you so any other suggestions for chemical parameters okay what about uh physical parameters there's another input from the chat about chemical i think look at here you choose separate for the iron and aluminum oxide by the these three radians because it's not the same so it should be different so please no no no iron iron and aluminum oxide by ammonium oxides oxalate and then for like aluminum by sodium citrate because now they proposed three okay then what the reaction yeah the reaction curve and they're also proposing uh laser diffraction for texture laser laser laser diffraction for for textural class okay not not this but diffraction i e not diffraction okay yes what about ccv yes using this so biocolorite is also very good and widespread you you you mean the composite method cc for for biocolorite biocolorite okay they are proposing aggregate stability bulk density we already did it nitrogen by dry combustion again it's not the same of dumas right it's it's same no it's the same then we already did it it's decided yeah i think it's efficient for i was i was about to say the same i think it's more than enough just to answer the question on it would be interest well the reflection on it would be interesting to know how many labs perform a certain analysis in my idea to facilitate a discussion at the gloss of unmeted is in the depth of opening a survey so we will inquire on how many laboratories perform the analysis that you see on screen now and i hope this would have the discussion at the gloss on meeting we can we can all pair each or how to do yeah yeah i'm still thinking about how to do it but i would like to know how many labs do exchange of velocity by this method and so on so that we can get some numbers so that we can have the discussion at the meeting we we have the purpose from anna from russian that uh they they measure the iron by di-tionite silver by what di-tionite iron so iron by di-tionite silver no it's the sorry it's the same because it's the sodium citrate and the di-tionite it's both chemical both regions so i leave it like this yes and uh is sodium citrate plus sodium di-tionite or something like this in english sorry no di di-tionite i think yeah yeah i no i can send you and i think you have the second the third chemical perimeter uh organic carbon by dry combustion uh it's it's the do you must method it yeah that was i was asking but it seems like no is this the same of uh total carbon by do you want yes yes yes yes okay yes it should be there is another one that is made with different temperature with the new instruments dry combustion that um that is uh that can you can determine uh both organic carbon and inorganic carbon at different temperature it's a dry combustion but it's a particular one um it's uh i can write you the dean maybe not now but um with with scalar temperature i think the method is miss vinci i've wrote your name next to this okay uh there is a question on SOPs for soil contaminants uh if you like we can also look into this yes and with regards to soil contaminants and also soil biological parameters it would be great if you could if you could spread the word uh on glossilon in your country and invite laboratories that really do this type of analysis to join the network because otherwise we we have troubles in the harmonization of the SOPs because we mostly work with the laboratories that work on soil fertility and chemical analysis in general lucrecia yes i would like to speak one of my colleagues could not join he has problem in connecting but we discuss about a biological parameter and he mentioned that to know the microbial diversity you need a first step that is uh DNA extraction so he said that DNA extraction should be standardized because you have only at the moment commercial kits and there is an iso method but that fits only for few limited number of soils from his experience if you go out of that limited range of soils the method does not work and this extraction is the first step you have to do for everything so i will give you his name and he can act for this but he could not join now yeah so you said this is the basis of microbial identification right yeah he mentioned about the extraction yeah the procedure to do the extraction should be standardized we have a partner on biological parameters that works only on DNA techniques and so far they couldn't contribute because we are not working on these methods but it would be good if you can give me the name and eventually put them in touch yeah so microbial biomass these also we are doing it already microbial biomass microbial also and sorry respiration rate yeah i think we have enough we have beta i i don't know which country but uh she proposed to commit on the organic carbon determination by the mass if we need to do this as okay thank you my name is betta i'm from the Netherlands and i would like to comment on the organic carbon determination by dry combustion there is that's alternative method to total carbon determination and it requires acidifying samples with the hydrochoric acid before analyzing it with automated analyzer so it's not exactly the same determination as total carbon by dry combustion so i would like to as well propose it as an alternative method to walkly black and uh uh loss on ignition because that's that's as well different determination that was discussed by uh calling before i sorry i cannot recall your name and it doesn't require to use a different modify the temperature and gradient increase of the temperature in order to define different fraction of carbon in soil samples there those are two different methods yes i've written in the chat the the name of the method i was talking about before this is a proposal of uh european standard and it recalls team standard uh german standard um but this is with different temperature whereas the other the dry combustion method doesn't i don't know if it's the same as so miss winchy and bient are you talking about the same thing no we are not talking about the same method one method requires to to apply different temperatures and in different temperature in the uh combustion of the different temperature you define different fraction of carbon so you can identify inorganic and uh organic fraction of the sample while dry combustion only for organic carbon determination requires prior to analysis acidify sample with acid sorry can i can i try the discussion yeah sure okay i i agree with the the the two colleagues but uh to simplify the the the sop uh i think that uh the two the two alternatives the acidification of the sample and the different temperatures in ignition it could be a update of the sop of the carbon by dry combustion if not we begin to have a different sops for in the same subject and i think it was better to update the sop of total carbon um i agree yeah the only that they need a different instrumentation that's the yes um you don't define that well i i i think in the sop of the total carbon we have uh we have mentioned about the temperature is 900 to 1000 degrees but in the case of organic carbon i don't think that this is the temperature that they they analyze well the the temperature of course are different and for organic carbon we're looking at at the temperature uh both 1000 celsius degrees but as well we're looking to the different fraction of the carbon so it won't be total carbon determination it will be organic carbon fraction only not the same so it's not the same parameter yeah not the same because you you you will you will need to have some uh preheat name yes exactly so the inorganic in case of a acidifying sample you remove the inorganic fraction uh from the sample and you define only organic carbon fraction while with the uh tcd methods so the methods mentioned with the different temperatures you define in different temperature different fraction of the carbon and by summing those results you obtain total uh content of the carbon in the soil so those are three different methods total carbon uh with the static temperature carbon fraction with the gradient has written before an organic carbon with the acidification with uh as well measured at the static temperature so i agree with the last comment in the chat those are three different determinations yeah so uh regarding the acidification it's not a a different method it's a a pretreatment of the sample yes that's correct that's pretreatment to the sample which yeah the method it's the same in the static temperature yes the static temperature just the pretreatment yeah with the acid and it and it was only uh uh an update for uh in the in the previous scop for uh calcareous soils or soils with the inorganic carbon yeah for acid soils there's no precipitate in it so i'm reporting yes please excuse me may i continue a little bit so my general opinion is that this list of the chemical parameters for the subs plant for the next period is a bit too ambitious because these methods are quite demanding and also we plan to to produce the subs for the same property by different analysis different method so i would i would suggest to reduce this list to to take only one property and one method like cc by baryon chloride or oxides because i'm i'm thinking about how many labs would contribute in oxides analysis it's it's not easy to find because these analysis are not routine analysis so much easier is for total carbon or total organic carbon because nowadays they perform this in by automatic automatic method so it's much easier but oxides not that's my opinion so we can discuss where i i agree that the oxides determination of iron and aluminium are quite rare and they are not common analysis as well in the commercial laboratories that's actually my background so there is research yes it's mostly for research purposes it's not daily analysis which is performed in commercial laboratories to my experience uh i agree okay uh the pyrophosphate extraction i agree but the other two ammonium oxalate and the sodium citrate they are used for soil classification and soil mapping okay yes so this one i dilate iron and aluminium oxides by pyrophosphate this i dilate it and maybe we leave also cc by baryon chloride only it's suggested by maria yes i agree so i dilate this one yeah okay that does agree as well still i can you clarify all of this so we keep these uh three and maybe the proposal of miss vinci is the second one carbon fractions can it be no i'm sorry i'm not sure it's so important to dilate the cobalt examine extraction because for the future and to compare with the other continents it's better because for acid soil acidic soils is the best method so i think it's important to keep it for tropical soil typically is the the the best method so can i say postpone not pyrophosphate it's for examine cobalt extraction for the cc uh no the for cc i don't mean that it's not important any of this method but i i think about the possibility to produce all these soaps in the next period that's my that's my question because it's rather demanding however however i think that we will make a survey to see that how how much member that implement in this method before we are going to make the conclusion of that which method that we will see later yeah these are just proposals thereafter at the gloss around meeting we will make the final decision also using the results of this survey i would like to launch maybe at the end of this week after the nina lab meeting that will be tomorrow so all these methods will be in the survey and we will see how many labs really use them so if you want i can also keep this and let's see look at these uh labris from latin i just wanted to clarify you know those organic carbons and different carbons the first is the organic mass matter that could stay the next is a first total carbon we already have that it is the dumas method this one right so yeah so this one ideally yes the third if we wish to include it okay the third one organic carbon by static temperature temperature prior acidification if we wish to include it it should be an basically revision or update to dumas method because it's the same the same equipment we simply pre-treat the sample so it should be not a separate sop it should be an update to dumas method and the remaining two carbon fractions temperature gradient and organic carbon by dry combustion those are the same things this so and organic carbon by static temperature and organic carbon by dry combustion are the same things the one below above and one below so these two yes the temperature gradient and this one is yes those are the same but they are quite a bit rarer no they're not commonly used okay so let me do like this many many thanks for clarifying because I was a bit lost on this honestly okay I think it's enough canna you wanted to take the floor before right maybe to talk about isopium pollution on pollutants okay can I go for it yes please okay so hello everyone first I would like to share my comments on microbial identification part I actually do agree with the question in that we should go to the microbial diversity parameters as much as possible maybe we should start from the functional diversity kind of things like plfa or community level physiological performance which we can determine by using plate technologies as most of you distinguished scientists can be familiar with but on the other hand I have several concerns about all these things because they are extremely expensive and you need certain infrastructures I don't know how it could be possible to standardize all these things in a certain time of period but but regarding DNA extraction I have a one big concern so you have to use DNA kits as as Kristen mentioned so but if you if you do extraction and then if you go to a company for sequence analysis because most of the traditional methods actually like PRFLP or DGTA that we use in the past for microbial identification actually are replacing with modern technologies like sequence next-generation sequence analysis so it is so expensive that I'm pretty sure that most of laboratories even in developed countries might be difficult to establish such infrastructures right and then the other option is going to a private biotechnology or analysis companies for sequence analysis but in that case they offer you X or Y DNA kit I mean they just tell you the DNA kit you should use to analyze your samples so in that case actually you wouldn't have any other option to go you cannot buy cheaper DNA kits because they say okay you use this kit we may not be able to I give you a good results so please prefer the kits we offer you but this has happened to me two times last year so I'm not sure how we can overcome such problems in our countries so my idea is maybe we can try to standardize sequence analysis but not a DNA extraction part because we strongly depend on DNA kits provided by private companies and there are several kits fighting each other you know in that part regarding contaminants maybe I can tell about my ideas on soil contaminants later we discuss about soil biology look Eusea should I continue yes please thank you okay so far we have been talking about traditional concerns on soil pollution but I would like to offer all of us to think about recent hidden dangers like micro plastics in soil so so far we have been talking about plastic soils for oceans but not only surface water sources but also soil resources it's facing this danger I mean using of plastics and contaminants resource resources are to having the future of soil resources so I will suggest us to think about a micro plastic or commonly saying a plastic extraction and identification in soil if possible thank you so much many many thanks can um I see that there are also supports to your statements does anyone wants to review to this should I change anything in this table I think we just should concentrate on more widely used methods and just agree on those which are really more commonly used and has a wide range of application to most of type of soils so if there's very specific ones of course we may skip or postpone it for later use okay so just to finalize the discussion does anyone would like to be a regional leader for the SOP on exchangeable acidity in case Glossalon agrees to harmonize it I can be Georgie you know okay organic matter by loss of ignition also it's easy yes from Latvia it's so unclear for organic matter by loss of ignition thank you thank you thanks for all these okay organic carbon by static temperature well can I can I add you and anyone else for these SOP Vinci you know before that you have one name yeah but Vinci is for carbon fractions okay if she agrees Elena take the one of the for a lot wait let me let me go in order otherwise I get lost yes as said before temporary gradient is a method it's a new method a new instrumentation so it can be postponed maybe it's not so relevant now by now if you agree well yes you want to postpone it yes please so this one that we put as postponed showing them in the survey I will open for Glossalon members so we get at least an idea but then we don't propose them for harmonization at the meeting okay so does anyone else would like to work on iron and aluminum oxidized by ammonium oxalate Elena volunteered anyone else who would like to work on on the same but using sodium citrate plus sodium desionate Elena again volunteered anyone else okay what about well we said this one we skip see see by examine examine cobalt do we want to identify a leader for this as well or we skip it we may skip it okay yes ask because I see that Maritela from Sirad has mentioned about this method and I don't know if she has time to work on it or if she's interested now we work on it every day and finally it's a common method in the laboratory I participate to lab determination it's called a BPA I don't know if you know it but finally is a common method for a lot of laboratories maybe not maybe they are not present here but I can't say you a lot of laboratory in Europe use this method yes I agree this is one of the most common methods which is worldwide use except ammonium acetate and well it works way better for like you mentioned for a tropical soils rather than ammonium acetate yes but it's a good method for the other salts so you can have just one method for all the salts so so Maritela can I add you to yes you can thank you thank you very much see see by by barium chloride I think it's called any volunteer no volunteer okay physical parameters anyone interested in water retention or from thank you rod and texture determination by laser diffraction laurice laurice laurice thank you laurice and aggregate stability beata you can help on texture yes I can help on texture determination definitely thank you aggregate stability anyone biological parameters so yeah I will give you the name of my colleague I will write it Marley would like to help for the water retention also yeah Marley from sea land Marley from sea land thank you so you can put my name for barium chloride methods okay done this was the toughest part and we are perfectly on time anyway we will follow up on this by email especially after the gloss run meeting so thank you very you saw me in this the smoke issue exit I mean cobalt and not cow both cobalt cobalt yeah that's true yeah yes one more from aggregate for aggregate Eucrecia are you going to add if you want if the group wants yes yeah I'm offering to adding soil plastics soil plastics yeah we can add it to the the section of soil chemistry yeah uh let's say uh plastic pollutions soil plastic pollutions or micro plastic pollution so can I add you to this work yeah definitely okay thank you okay I think we have enough one question for the colleague for Turkey do you have any methods that you use for the plastics in soil determination um yeah thank you so much for the question it's very nice question actually there are several methods but not commonly accepted one at this moment so there are several um scientists and countries let's say using different methodologies but there is no one commonly accepted or standard method not yet established that's my some concern that we cannot find enough laboratories that perform these methods that's a problem we have to foreseeing the possibility to harmonize the method if we develop the COS it may be a problem so we can discuss this yes Valmer makes the inquiry about PAH it's much easier because there are standard methods already developed for PAH Recia may I add a comment on the plastic sure Christoph please yeah um yeah I agree with the comment of Marica as well in my opinion the plastic pollution and especially the micro plastic is really still in a really research and development phase from I think next months under the standardization for European standardization a technical committee will start on the development of European standards for soil and soil environment matrices on micro plastics so but it's really at a very preliminary stage I would say so as compared to all the other parameters in this list I agree that it will be very difficult within the coming years even to find a harmonized method as I think this is still now in the discussion so I'm also in doubt if we have to put already micro plastic especially on the list right now but if everybody thinks in the same way um yeah we can remove it so you mean we should wait for a while right Christoph yes yes this is what I especially if I compared it with the other parameters on this list I think we are maybe need to wait maybe several years now or at least see how this will evolve on uh international level which method comes up before we start writing stops and try to harm it yes this is to be my suggestion thank you like this if it's useful we can also launch a survey on this uh to see how and if a laboratory is assessed it okay if there are no other comments I thank you very much for your contribution and for volunteering to to work next year this is just to remind you that all laboratories sending information and all authors are acknowledging the gloss around SOPs as you can see at the end like at the bottom of the page of each SOP it's reported the name of the global leader of the working group and then other information on the the endorsement of the SOP there is a appendix with acknowledgement and appendix with a list of authors and then appendix with the list of contributing laboratories so basically all laboratories that complete the the harmonization matrix uh this is to open another discussion that links on the issues and contrary in harmonizing the SOPs we we are doing now as I anticipated in item one so for some SOPs especially those on biological parameters uh we had very few laboratories completing the harmonization matrix so my question is can we still talk about globally harmonized SOPs if we have a little line of information to harmonize and eventually shall we review our way to harmonize this type of SOP then the second problem regards the composition of the working group again for some SOP we have very few experts in the working group and these are is going down the wall harmonization problem a process this is not really a problem of experts willing to contribute to to the to the harmonization process but it's a problem of finding experts on a specific method because there are very few if you like I can tell you what other resonance came up in response to these issues so for the first point they said that we will not change the way to harmonize the SOPs and that yes we can still talk about globally harmonized SOPs just eventually we have to involve more laboratories now in the Glossalon network that's why I was asking you to spread the voice on Glossalon to laboratories that do other types of analysis like biological analysis physical analysis here we need of laboratories more laboratories a step of analysis and then eventually pollution and so on for the second point they said that it would be good uh while indeed like to spread the voice on Glossalon again to involve more laboratories and eventually ask top experts on a specific method or on the analysis of specific parameters to take care of the harmonization of the SOPs so in this case like kind of abolish the working groups for some SOPs and just ask top experts on the topic to take care of the of the harmonization process now I open the floor for comments and the suggestions editing mode so to answer these there is a suggestion from lauris to run a survey to and thereafter still work on the harmonization of the most used methods right lauris that's your suggestion any other suggestion okay agreement from turkey anyone else okay what about the second point because on the first one there is agreement what about the problem of the experts so do you agree on what other residents suggested to remit the writing of the of some SOPs to top experts so not to have working groups anymore for some SOPs so we ask a top expert to take care of everything I agree with this because I also recognize the problem so it's better to give to one expert of a group of experts to develop the SOP and then send in for harmonizing then to give to the working group because sometimes there is no good contacts or responses from the group we can still have the review panel so okay yes I agree yeah so we abolish the working group but we have still the review panel yeah but only for some particular SOPs which are more let's say more demanding yeah yeah I will highlight this some SOPs we want to keep it participatory so okay any other remark on this we are getting to the end just resist 10 more minutes maybe let me go to this um so the global soil partnership passed below Solon to work on range of reference values to facilitate the provision of recommendations to farmers and other stakeholders uh so as you know they always look at others as a good example and the great team to implement work so but I want to ask you for an opinion on these starting from the range values so by range values uh we uh we mean uh range of validity of the method for example method X is reliable for for example soil organic carbon content from a certain value to another one and they would like us to include this information in the gloss on SOPs so Filippo can you launch the poll or if you want to have a discussion first otherwise we open the poll and the question is do you agree on including range values in the gloss on SOPs so you should have a kind of window on your screen with a question and then two possible answers yes or no as soon as we reach majority we close I apologize maybe I don't understand well