I want to add that when we get to talking about committees on the annual report on the exchange I've had with the Historic Preservation District and the Energy Committee, I have some things to report on both of those things. I'd also like to add just there, there's a grand thing Barbara had sent an email from the Central Monk, waste management folks that we can apply to possibly get like a tire amnesty program, something to part of our green update that would get garbage off our roads. You mean they'll take our tires for free? No, but we could apply for a grant to get funding so that I have dreams of getting people to bring them to us and not put them over the hills and then the folks go down and search. So July, is that to the end of the agenda? Yeah, I guess approval to go ahead and apply for it. So we can do that through the end of April. Okay. All right, remind me if I use the speaker. I was wondering the personnel bodies we're going to want an executive session around that during the discussion. Oh. Well you should have thought of that, it occurred to me. Didn't think of that. Yeah. What are you talking about? A hiring augment, whether we should go into executive session to talk about that. Yeah, if there's some sort of discussion I have, I think we should. Yeah, okay. So delay that one till the end or something? Well, we always do executive sessions at the end so that everybody else can go home. Right. Yeah. Okay, minutes of March 25th. Somebody like to move those, any changes? I think we're just going to approve. Oh, is somebody taking minutes? We don't have those here yet. I guess I need to, hold on, hold on. You want me to do it while you eat? I can do that. Can you do it and so do, are you okay with that? I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it. John moved, do we have a second? I'll second. Ann seconded, all in favor. Minutes of the town meeting. Any changes to that? I thought Rose did a great job. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be great. Okay, would somebody like to move them? So moved. We second. Second. Move them seconded, all in favor. Aye. Okay. Aye. Oh, thank you, Donnie. I forgot to ask about you. Did you vote for the other minutes too? Yes, I did. Okay, thanks. Board orders. Can I interrupt? You guys actually need to sign the town meeting minutes. Okay. There's a signature page at the end. Thank you. Board orders, any questions on the board orders? If they're not, this is just to clarify, if it's a hybrid meeting, if it's not unanimous, then it's roll call. Is that for real? Yes, that's for real. Okay, thank you. Questions on board orders? I would like to ask about the attorney fees. Kari, we had a very high attorney bill again, and I asked and you gave me the broken out version. I'll give you a page of it. There's a page of it. You'll see that there's a lot of emails to people that I don't recognize. Who are those people and why are they paying for their discussions with our attorneys? So who is S. Spencer? Who is M. Murphy? Sarah Spencer. Sarah Spencer is the veterinarian. And they work with our attorney? She does. He needs to weigh in on the conditions of animals that are currently in possession for guardianship, I guess, of the town. So yeah, that was totally appropriate. So I took a pretty close look at that too. And given the dates, those are all pretty relative to a period of dialogue because they were all, they were. That was regarding that. And Kennedy John Freedman, that was regarding threats the person he was making towards people involved. Who initiated the contact, I guess, was my question. Is John making a call or is. He had initiated to make aware that threats had been made against the attorney. So he needed to increase in safety. This is when she made threats against the attorney and John alerted him to it, I see. And, okay. All right, I just wanted to be sure nobody was just telling themselves to our attorney. So I think it's worth reinforcing the preference of the town, not preference, but the requirement to make sure that any communication with the lawyer is approved by the select board. But given having taken a closer look at the list of individuals on there, it wasn't a long list of other people who seem to be having additional conversations that independently, they are fairly relatively associated with a line of dialogue. And I think that was also around the same time that I had mentioned, it's like that we need all the conversations we go through the select board as well. So unless there had been any later than those dates, certainly keep an eye on it, but. Okay, good. And I'll reiterate that. Yeah, that was awesome. You're going to tell Joe, yeah, that's good. Okay, thanks. Anything else on the board orders? If not, I'll take a motion to approve them. It's been moved. Second. Okay, been moved and seconded. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. V-trans grant in aid program. This is, you'll remember that every year we have to apply for funds for the parts of roads that are hydrologically connected to surface waters. We don't have to, but if we do, we get money. And if we sign this letter, we become eligible for $17,000 for this year, of which we have to match 20% or $4,250, but we can do that in kind. We get to count the road crew time, the equipment and so on. So it's not a problem. And the funds have to go towards working on these roads. Does everybody understand what this is? Questions? All right, now I'll take a motion to, who has to sign this, Kari? Do Lee authorize representatives? The agenda says you. Oh, I interpreted that as me. I interpreted that as me, all right. Okay, will somebody please move to authorize me to sign the municipal roads grant in aid program letter? I'll second it. Jamie's moved and a second, all in favor? Aye. Okay, thank you. Kari, Ogden Hershey. So I'm making the recommendation that we rehire Ogden on a part-time basis. He's offering to work with us two days per week through the summer season and would like to come back full-time during plow season. He does not have a CEL current, but we would be able to have him train all these with us using the local roads, technically a federal program for learning CDL, the information part, and then our crew could drive with him, sort of like a learner's permit situation so he could get his hours in the truck and get his CDL at a pretty minimal cost. Kari, I noticed you said he would be a class A restricted. What does that mean? Can he drive on a standard shift or would it be only on a standard shift? Yeah, standard shift, yeah, and pull a tractor. Have I got that right, or trailer? Have I got that right on the hill? No, and he takes his pass on a class A dump truck with a automatic, he is restricted who only drives with an automatic. Can he take it on a standard also? He can take it on a standard, if he takes it on a standard, he will not have that restriction on his license. Okay, but he would be going for the lower level. I'm assuming a B. I know Tyler, that's how I got his wisdom writing. He's willing to pursue an A. To pursue an A, okay. I think it's more beneficial if he did this A. Yeah, you need another one. Relative to the size of our trucks, I think you would have to be, right? Well, I think that the problem you have right now is you have, there's one row crew member that has this A license, who happens to be the foreman. So he's gonna be the one in the truck moving the excavator around all the time. Okay. Nobody else can move a piece of equipment off trailer if they don't have a class A. You can pull around an empty trailer all day to class B, but the second you put it on, they get no longer compliant. Is it Tyler? Tyler doesn't have a class A? No. If you go and you get one? No, I don't. All right, well, that's another, I don't want, okay. So what should we do? Shall we save the discussion for executive session later? If that's what you wanna do. I think, yeah. I think we should. Okay, so we'll put that at the, we'll just do that at the end of the meeting, so we don't kick everybody out way. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And one more item, administrative item is the authorizing the sales order for the new grader. You remember we got a bond for, we were authorized to float a bond for up to 335,000, and this is gonna cost 329,000. Oh, I always got three bits that came in below the 330, and this is in stock, but they're willing to hold it for us until August when the bond money will become available to us. Remember, the bond bank operates in two cycles. And I just mentioned that since we started doing this research, we've taken an interest in getting a roller to pull behind the grader so that it would compact that after the grader. We're not gonna be able to afford that now, but it is compatible with doing it. Perhaps we'll be able to find the money through a grant or some other means by August when we actually meet this purchase. And this was the consensus decision people wanted, the cap over the other option. Consensus among the road for you. Yeah. Never read all two of them. Yeah. Two and a half, yeah, two and a half. Are we able to hold it or? They're holding it for us, yeah. If we don't have the funds for the roller when we buy the grader, is that something we could add next year if it was in the budget, yeah. Okay, do we need a motion then? Yes, we need a motion to authorize who to sign that. I could just sign it, I can't go. Okay, a motion to authorize Kari to sign the sales order. So moved. Okay, well finished. I'll second. We don't all need it, we do that. Okay. All in favor? Bye. Bye. Okay, thank you. Yes. I was afraid to interrupt again. I missed my opportunity earlier. Under adding things, a couple of weeks ago at the last meeting, you re-adopted the rules of procedure. Congratulations, but we needed that signed as well. So we have a signing, a blank signature sheet. Oh, we want that. Where you guys can just sign everything so we can get them into the town office. Thank you. Let's come around. Okay, I would like to introduce the select board now. In fact, everybody in the room to Buffy, Buffy, your last name, I keep wanting to say Langlois and you already told me it's Langlois. Langlois. Langlois. Burn out the guests as well, you got two. Buffy has applied to be our animal control officer. Woo hoo! Yeah. Yeah. That would make you enjoy it. We met with Buffy and we had a really nice conversation and we would like you all to meet Buffy now and then we'll decide whether or not we're gonna have a point or Buffy, would you like to just say hi? You can come up or sit there, whatever you're comfortable with. Hi everybody, but I don't know who you are. Oh, sorry. Why don't we all say our names, just so you know. I'm Jamie Morby. You know the two hands. Yes. Jordan Keyes. Sorry. Hi. And you know Kari. Sorry. And the owl here is Donny Mugirino. He's zooming in. Okay. Kari. Nice to meet you guys. Nice to meet you guys. Okay. Oh, thank you. Okay. Why don't you tell us a, you know, how long have you lived in Calis and what's your background with working with animals? I think I've been here for about four years. We bought the old Clish place. I have two horses. I grew up on a dairy farm. I've always been oriented with dogs. Not huge in the cats, like a dollar, you know. I mean, I've had too many. Horses, cat owls, sheep, goats. I don't look reptiles, that's about it. Well, tell me about the wild mustangs. So, when I was growing up, I wanted a wild mustang. And I have now adopted a bunch of them. Get them out of the wild. Basically they've never been touched. They've never been handled. You hold them in a facility, that's usually 20 by 20 with a 10 by 10 shelter attached to it. Definitely one of sturdy. And basically teach them that humans are okay. And then you go from there to whatever you're gonna work with them for. I definitely, that is a breed I definitely fell in love with. Even though it's not really a breed. It's part of our heritage, basically. How many of you gentle though? My first one, I was 12. I couldn't actually play in that one. Cause you had to be 18. I wanna say I'm a little bit of a five. And I had my share of all kinds of breeds, but by far they're very versatile. They're not very tall. They're not huge, but they're awesome. I mean, they don't have a domestic hang-ups. They've never dealt with humans. So it's your job to teach them that carrots are okay, apples are okay, you know? And you don't really care about rain. They eat it, but you have to teach them what it is. So those were always my favorites. Any questions? Yeah. Well, thanks for the interest. I've heard a little bit of the conversations that you've had with, and I believe.  Do you? Yeah, I have to record a ton of them. Two more straightener. Okay. Sure. I know where you're going. Yeah. I actually have a book with two drugs. Yeah, great. I don't know where, whether or not we have a policy on the books for how that happens, but it certainly helps. I think the town, if individuals who are in the role are comfortable transporting their owner, or at least know how to transport them if they need to, make arrangements for it. Correct. But thank you. Yeah. The question is from Buffy. Buffy, I sent you a contact, Trevor Whipple at the BLCT. He's a former, I think, Winooski, chief of police. He's now the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, consultant on all things enforcement, and he's taught animal control classes, but there are none going now, and none in the foreseeable future. I tried several different ways to find training, and when I contacted Trevor, he said he'd work with Buffy, be a mentor, he'd be available to her, and I sent you the contact information, and Barbara will get you signed up if we're gonna have to vote on it, of course. Right. I was planning to vote on it later.  Well, I got one more question. So we've recently adopted a Microsoft Office 365 platform, so basically Outlook. Would you be comfortable running that from your phone? Because the position comes with an email address that would be assigned, yeah. We talked about that. Okay, good. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Well, thanks so much, Buffy. Yeah, Buffy says at some point she might also be interested in being constable. Correct me if I'm wrong, but right now, no, she wants to learn this job. And I do work a full-time job at the Fire Department. Okay, all right. Thanks, Buffy. Thank you. We'll get to the vote later. This is officially the public comment period. Does anybody have a comment about something not on the agenda? Okay. Yeah, well, Barbara always talks about this. So I sent you the notice that the Eastmont Millionaire Fire Department orderly meeting is this Thursday. I've requested the meeting materials, so I'm going to forward them to you. I haven't gotten them yet, but I need to know how many might be going and do, I need to board this as a select board meeting on Thursday. This is the joint meeting between the Eastmont Millionaire Fire Department and the Eastmont Millionaire Select Board and the Calis Select Board. Are we going? I can go. That's this Thursday? This Thursday, the 11th, all these two hours. All right. Donnie, did you catch that? Yeah, I won't be able to make Thursday. Okay. So I'll do that. Well, Jamie's still checking her calendar. What time is it? Seven. I believe it, would that be seven yet? Almost. So it sounds like I need to board this Thursday night. Sounds like maybe. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's no big deal, right? It's no big deal. I just, it's a sentence. Okay. And I will follow up by email, chief patrolling, yesterday or Saturday, asking for the materials, because I remember back in December or January, you guys never got the materials and that didn't go so well. So I'm doing my best to try to get them for you. Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. All right. Any other public comments? Hell over the clips. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Sure was. All right. The next item is the road standards as certificate of compliance every year. We have to sign a certificate of compliance that states we certify that we are our adopted standards. Do or do not need or exceed the minimum requirements and that we are complying with them. You have in your folder, the are the town of Dallas, Roman Bridge standards, which I'm sure you all read very carefully. So the first order of business would be to, we need a motion to sign this. And that makes us eligible for funding. Isn't that right? Is that an important discussion or? Well, then we'll get into discussion of the standards. I mean, we have to do this like now in order to be eligible for funding. Or do you want to discuss whether or not we should be deciding? Oh, no, no, no. We would sign it. We'll just get that out of the way. But does that mean we're adopting our current standards? Oh, they're adopted. They were adopted on July 25th, 2022. So those are the current standards. We're going to have a discussion about whether we need to talk, change it in some way. Okay. So there's a, manually you have to sign a document from the state that says you do have standards in place. Right. Yes. Period. Yeah. And that's what this document that you're about to sign is. There's additional stuff on that document as well about the inventory. Yes, that's right. I wanted to ask you about that. Thank you. So that's the, so we currently have, it's called a road erosion inventory. It's, it's, it's up to date as it was in 2017 when it was first done. It hasn't been a lot of updating to it. The plan this coming year, and actually I think within the next two years, we are required by the state to have it updated in place. And the road crew and myself and the car are going to work on that. So it's, so it's currently in place. We're currently, currently do have a road erosion inventory. It's just not, it's not totally up to date. Okay. And we were told by a man whose date is eluding me is with Central Rock Regional Plainting Council that we updated them as we fixed them. Because I was in a panic last year that we had to have a ball at home. And she said, as you go and work on them, you update them. Well, we've been working on this since 2017 and there's no one doing any update on the inventory. So, so essentially we'll have to go out around town and update every few minutes out there. Okay. So, and again, so the only thing that's required in the inventory are what's known as connected roads. So essentially anything that's within a 200 feet of water is the only thing that's required by the municipal roads, general permit. So we don't have to do everything. We just have to do the roads that are connected in the inventory. The other stuff is like, doesn't really matter although while we're out there we might as well do it. That's not what it says Toby. It says we certified that we do or do not have an up-to-date highway network inventory which identifies location size deficiencies, conditions of roads, bridges, cosways, culverts, et cetera on class one, two, and three town highways. So it's all. And it ends up maybe what they intend for us. I mean, we certainly can do it. But the municipal roads, general permit only requires the connected roads to be inventory and addressed. And essentially when the municipal roads, permit people look at our, so essentially there's a portal that we put stuff up on. Every segment that is quote unquote connected is the only thing they look at. They don't look at the other ones. As far as the general permit goes. Now the rest of the detransmit look at the other pieces of it to make sure you're doing that stuff. But the only thing the municipal general permit cares about is connected roadways that essentially bring sediment to the water ship. That's all they care about. They don't really look at the other stuff. Okay, well, yeah. So we'll do the whole thing. Yeah, because that's not what it says. That's fine. Questions, comments, discussion. Would you like to move to sign this? So moved. Jamie's moved that we sign the certification of compliance for town road and bridge standards and network inventory. Which should we be, that we do not have in, they're not entirely up to date. I mean, what happens if we say we do not have an up-to-date highway network inventory? I can't tell you. That's actually a new language this year. I've never seen that before. Yeah, that was in last year. Right. Yeah, last year they just said, do you have standards? Not an inventory up to date. And correct me if I'm wrong, but like we have discussed over the last year and a half an inventory of culverts. I mean, we do have a pretty good documentation of the roads, their classifications, the culverts and infrastructure associated with them. It's just that we may not, we may not have a note saying whether or not, you know, what their status. So I guess the question is, what does up-to-date mean? Right. What's the definition and what's the requirement for up-to-date? We do have an inventory. It started in 2017. I have been some updates. Since then, it's not the entire inventory that's been updated to whatever date we're showing this. Barbara. Jan has her hand up. Oh, thank you. Jan? Yeah, thanks. I am not sure whether this is part of your standards or not. What we have just learned over the past week is that any repair and culvert, anything that is in the flood hazard area must have a permit signed by the zoning administrator at a minimum. There must be a paper trail showing that these kinds of things in order to meet the requirements of NFIP. Now, I don't know if that is to become part of your local road standards or if this is something separate, but I'm bringing it up because in the agenda, it seemed like if you had an overarching fence, it's not only just the road standards. It's what you have for standards for bridges and culverts and whatever else. And if your inventory is there and you know where those culverts and bridges are, are they in the flood hazard overlay? And if anything in the future needs to be repaired, there has to be a firm documented approval process between the zoning administrator and the road commission. But what standards are we to use, Jan? Then the latest flood hazard overlay in our latest regulations. In the zoning ranks. Okay, that's why the zoning administrator, John's grinning. It's good. Is John there? John is there. John is here. Okay, good. He can talk to it. I'm here as an assistant CA. Let the full CA talk. Do you want to say something, John? I don't know exactly how this would impact the road and bridge standards. I don't know if this language would be bolded in or if the road and bridge standards might just have a line in it that says refer to the calisthenics or what requires a permit, a local permit and maybe something like that. Well, I don't think that affects signing this document at least. I'd like to get that out of the way and then get it in and discuss it. Yeah, as an order of operations from my perspective, it seems like the roads have been maintained relative to the standards that the town has adopted. We do have an inventory that is a need of continuous improvement. That seems like a living document. And we've done a lot of documentation over the last year relative to infrastructure items. So I mean, I'm comfortable certifying that document with the language that it has. I think separately though, we'd have a charge as a board and a town I guess to revisit the language in the road standards relative to maintaining that inventory in the process through which we do it. And then also updating, probably reaching out to central Vermont and rural development to make sure that we have a clear understanding of the language that may need to be included in the road standards and in the not too distant future, we'll need to re-adopt standards that make those particular inclusions. So do you wanna talk about a process in a minute? Yeah. Let's get this done. So would you move this? So if everybody else agrees with that, I'd make a motion to accept a certification of the road standards and the inventory, the town's inventory of roads. Okay. We have a second. So Jamie seconds. Further discussion. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, thank you. Kara, you have one you can pass around for us to sign. Okay. Now let's get into the standards. Thanks, Kara. Toby has been working on a document in which he's proposing some changes to the roads. Well, let me just explain something before you, just a sec, Toby. We didn't see these. They accidentally did not get in our folders. So I didn't even know the stock and it existed until this afternoon. And I presume none of the rest of you have had a chance to look at it. This is a graph that Toby wrote in which he's added some standards. So what I'd like to do is ask Toby to tell us a little bit about it and then talk about a process that we might engage in to determine what we might wanna do to either accept these or review them or whatever. Okay, so go ahead, Toby. So the history is in, I think it was in 2015 a committee of townspeople, the Calis Roads Advisory Committee, created a set of town bridge standards which are in place and are read-adopted in July 25th, 2022. So that document has been in place for some time. It's been an exceptional document that we've been working on. In the interim, the state created the Municipal Roads General Permit. Now, the Municipal Roads General Permit has tighter and more specific standards that need to be met for those seven segments of road that are connected within 200 feet. So my thought process is that we need to bring in those other standards from the state required permit standards and we level them into our existing 2002 or 2022 standards. So I essentially took some of the language from the state, Municipal Roads General Permit document. They have a standard road in which standard form that includes an appendix that defines all of these standards. And I took the language from that and it's inserted into our existing standards. That's just a temporary document that you guys can take a look at and see what's in the general permit that needs to be in our, you know. And again, so instead of having two separate standards, one state and one town that are in place at the same time, I'm trying to bring the minimum standards from the state recommended standards into our standards so there's responsibility for everybody in the country. That's a process for you guys to take some time to look at and see. Most of it is specifications about which side of the stone, stone, ditches, dams, et cetera, ditch dams, stone dams in the ditch, and it's just language that's generic to the state standard under their permit date. So essentially when you take a look at my suggestions it's just cut and paste and put in an appropriate portion of where our standards are, where they would fall. So does it change our standards in any way? Not really, there's a couple of issues where the definition of a ditch is a little bit different. It adds some definition of when we use stone, stone line dams, it talks about design of stone dams in the ditch, or steeper roads. And the most part it's just definitions that meet the standard that the state wants in that we don't have in our current standard. And so when you take a look at it and you can take some time and say, okay, how much does this change or doesn't change what we already have? Some of it is just, it wasn't in there to begin with and it just adds a new parameter that needs to be in place for us to meet the standard for the state general permit. When you guys haven't had a chance to even look at this, so maybe we'd better put this discussion off for another day unless anybody has any questions that they'll be right now, or done. I, what? Yeah. Yeah. All the stuff that's highlighted in green is that what you've probably noticed that are changed. That's correct, Donnie. Okay, thank you. And I make no changes at all to the language of the existing town document. These are just cut and paste from the state, appropriately placed where there might help verify a design or design standard in the document we already have. Do you have a question, Donnie? Yeah, not necessarily a question. I think one of the things that I think would be beneficial for us to consider and to continue maintenance of a supplemental standard essentially from the state standard would be some actual cross sections that are like illustrative cross sections. And so we then, I'm trying to think about this from a practical standpoint for the road crew. And that became previously kind of a point of contention. This is a lot of information to digest and maintain. And I think as a training document, it could be beneficial for us to maybe pursue having cross sections of road construction. So there's a document in the Vermont local roads that essentially has pictures and designs and shows, dimensions, and all of that stuff. And that whole document essentially talks about all of these things in that. That's already there, we can just make sure we're highlighted or engaged as examples to be attached to this document. Yeah, I think it may be the case because I've gone through kind of both of those and there are areas where there are discrepancies between their illustrating, the things that they're illustrating and then what we're saying is our standard. Right, and we can just change those dimensions or whatever. So essentially the diagrams or whatever will just make a tune to what your standard is that you want to accept. Yeah, I think that would be helpful to include those things. Yeah, I can pull those up and send them to you so you can work on those things as your process continues. Questions, other questions? I have one more. Yeah, Donnie. Dolby, do you know, just in my conversations with a couple of other towns for me, do you know how many towns actually have this standard, the state standard, if you will? I don't know, I don't know who is, so essentially when the general permit first came out there, the state then redid, so they had a template for town, road and bridge standards that they sent to every town. It changed with the municipal roads general permit and that is a state template that essentially, the first page is yes we have this, yes we have this, yes we have this and then there's an appendix A that has all the specifics of the individual standards for the general permit. That's a generic road standard that's out there. I don't know what other towns, whether they just adopted that and didn't have their own town standard and again, a lot of towns because they had to have a road and bridge standard just used the template before without having any individual changes or adjustments to the standard. So I don't know, I have no idea what other towns have accepted but every town is required to have a road and bridge standard and my sense is that the general permit now covers every town and every town has to have some form of it in order to qualify under the general permit and the connected segments are probably more than 50% of our road segments in town are connected to waterways and are in need of adjustment to the state standard for general permit. All right, Donnie, you done for now? Yep, thank you. Okay. Yep. I have a question. I was reading this frankly for the first time. Have we actually identified collectors, low traffic roads and secondary roads? There are three maps or there's a map with the three different colors on it that I don't know exactly where it is right now and select for its wealth of past documents. I probably can dig up my copy of it to provide to you. I think at one point I did make a list of what roads qualified under each one of those and I can give that to you guys as well. Well, more importantly, does the road crew know about this because there are specific standards for how wide the road can be, et cetera, et cetera, depending on which kind of road is it. Does the road crew actually use this information? I can't speak for the road crew's knowledge about that. Yeah, okay. Well, that's, I'd like to find out. Maybe we can... I think if you look at playing field in East Montpelier, they do. That was why I asked them to do that question. I kind of already nailed it. Sorry, what question did you ask, Donnie? I asked them how many other towns use it. A lot of, if you look at East Montpelier's roads and playing field roads, you can go, Hardwood doesn't have a whole lot of dirt roads, but they have the wider standards for that. Jen's had a gut, Jen, you've got your hand up. Oh, thanks. Yeah, the only question I have is, the last time I read the road standards relative to the connector, now I maybe don't understand this. The connector was in road that intersects with a major road such as 14 or county. Is that correct, Koby? No, and I'll read you from the standard. A collector is a road that currently carries or in the future should carry a substantial portion of the traffic out of or into Calis via route 14, the county road and possibly route 12 or route two. A collector is a road that does now where the select word determines, shooting the future functions as one of the primary routes to and from paved ivory. So essentially class two roads are cross town roads, connecting from one side of town north-south or east-west. And class two. Is a class two road that's mapped class two on our interactive maps equal to those connector collectors? Yeah, unless the earlier committee chose some other roads that fall under that and they specified it. So the collector does not equal class two, it doesn't say it's a class two, it just says it does this. They may have identified another road that's not a class two that they consider a collector. And until I dig up the map that they created and the list of roads that fall as collectors, I can't answer that question. Did you have a follow up question, Jen? Yeah, yeah. So is back street considered a connector because it attaches to N14? Jen, just to be clear, it's collector. It's a road that... I mean, collector, yeah, okay. To my mind, it's a connected collector, but whatever. Yes. But back street attaches to our insects with a major road. Is it considered a collector? Well, I can't, so all I can tell you is that's an interpretation that whoever wrote the standard, they said in place what those are. I can't tell you if that fell into it or not. They may have said Marshall Road down to the church and onto N14 was the collector and back street was just a loop off of it and it's not part of that system. I can't tell you that because I was not involved in making those maps. Okay, but now my follow up on that is as I recall reading road standards, the collector is what, 14 feet wide? 20 feet. 20 feet, okay, thank you. See, I guess I'm going by our standards in feet and I'm just wondering about consistency between a road standard.    So most of our right of ways are three rod wide, which is 50 feet. Now what the road is in that 50 feet of right away can be anything from 12 feet to 20 feet or whatever. And what the standard that we, the road standard that was adopted says there are some roads that are 20 feet shoulder to shoulder, others are 14 feet, others are 12. And they've determined by definition what those are and that map would then tell you what, within that 50 foot right of way is the travel path out of the road. Yes, Rose. Good evening, Rose. I was part of the Calis Roads Advisory Committee and I was a select board liaison. So the maps that Toby's referring to and some other data and whatnot, I know that I have all that stuff at home. So Toby's gonna look for the map, but I can look for it too. So in fact, the select board did. I mean, this says that within six months of adoption, they were supposed to designate all this road. Yeah, and they did. And they did. Okay, and they did. So there's a map from the map I actually pulled an Excel spreadsheet. So you've listed the roads that fall in each category. And I can dig that up with my computer database way back. I think it's pretty important that the road crew have this. So yeah, we'd better get hold of those and make sure that they understand what these standards are. And what the inventory is, I mean, this is kind of going back to some of the dialogue that we've been having around the standardization of documentation and making sure we're linking or referencing very particular documents. I guess I just found a new categorization for documents, but it seems like the map should be on there as a mapping record because in this standard, we should be calling out whatever the map record is and whatever the inventory is and what the items are that we want to be doing. So let me be clear, the road erosion inventory deals with crowning, ditching, sheeting, drainage away and other stuff. It doesn't deal with road widths and that's not part of the state erosion inventory. So that is meant to, the road erosion inventory is really to say, does the road need all the standards that we want to maintain to limit erosion from roads into the watershed? That's all it does. If we want to create another layer that talks about width and other things, that would have to be something different that we would have to create additionally. So those parameters are not in the existing state road erosion. Just a clarification for you. Yeah, thanks. I think that's what you were looking for. That's what I'm proposing is that we'd be working towards kind of a master inventory that collects those things for the road crew that has those things in there because as we've been talking about these standards, there are always going to be exceptions that are made because of land features, et cetera, et cetera. And rather than revisiting the conversation over and over again about why isn't this happening in this particular spot, it would be nice to have that those incremental exceptions documented as well. And if we have those in a database form, they can pre-easily be mapped to. Right, and I'm not sure how the state database for the erosion inventory could be expanded to put more data in there. I mean, essentially we'd have to talk to the state about how we pull that down and then use it and use those factual informations because it's the state portal that we don't have any control over how it's set up. It's just a data entry portal that then generates reports back. Is the section added on ditching depth and shape a change to how we currently do ditching or is it just a clarification? Well, no, what it does is it says that's what the state expects in connected ditches. And that's, again, if you read the language of Baba then what we have in the current it doesn't necessarily meet that same standard. You talked about a one and two, but it doesn't say two feet deep. It doesn't say those other things that are required by the state general firm. Well, it sounds like we'd better put this on the agenda for next time when we've had a chance to read through these. And FYI, there is a state-done culvert inventory. We have over 700 culverts in town, but that one has not been updated since 2015, I think. And I'm not sure what is that. In the past, Central Rock Regional Planning has been able to do some of that, but I don't know if they're doing that anymore. So we would either have to do it ourselves and hire somebody to come in and update it. So for the most part it may or may not be up to date. A lot of new culverts that went in are not in the inventory. This didn't work, it was not updating that state database. Did you say since 2018? No, I think it was early in 2015 or 2012. I'll just write for some time. Yeah. For some time. Since very long time. 2020 is at least. Yeah, it's been a while. So in some cases, the culvert's there and it's a metal culvert and it's 15 inch and it's 40 feet and there's fine. Other places, there's a culvert that nobody knows is there because it's not in the inventory. You can see it. I mean, in fact, on Haggett Road, but out of that store, there was a culvert buried in there that had been buried for a few months, how long? He wasn't doing anything. So under there, we discovered it. It's not there anymore because it was not doing anything, but there may be a lot of those around town that are just essentially disappeared. They weren't functioning and then you just got soaked in and got covered. But all the ones we changed as a result of the flood, those would be in the inventory?  I don't think last summer, they were sitting down at 9 o'clock. So Mr. FEMA has GPS coordinates and information on every one of them that I had. So if it needs to be updated, I can put all that stuff in it. So anything that we did during the repair of the flood was all taken care of. I couldn't get away with it. FEMA wants to know everything. All right, so thanks. We'll come back to this. Okay. Sorry, we are getting behind here. We do have a couple of curb cut applications now. Are you Mr. Poirier or Mr. Sparrow? Let's do yours first then. Okay. Actually it's pretty straightforward. You've all seen, you've all got the application and you all see that Neil looked at it and has nothing to recommend and the road crew looked at it and has nothing to recommend. Right, then no conditions. And no conditions. Who's here for? Somebody like to move that we approve Mr. Sparrow's application. I would make a motion to approve it as documented. All right, do we have a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you, Donnie. Thanks for coming. Yeah. Mr. Poirier is here as well. Oh, okay, good. I'm here on duty here. Yeah. Yes, we can. Thank you. I would say the same thing about yours though. They are our tree warden and our road crew looked at it and offer no conditions. They think it's fine the way it is. Is that right, Poirier? Yeah, this one we should know that it already exists. Yeah. This is an after the fact kind of a thing. Yeah. So I'll take a motion to approve the Mr. Poirier's application for permit. So moved. Donnie moves. We can have it in a second. Seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're welcome. And I have one question for you. It's probably, I'm all new to this and I just barely bought that land like last year from Hannah Smith. And so, at the same time I applied for the curb cut, I also applied for a building permit where I want to build up a little cabin up there with my great kids. Do you know when that will be coming up? That would mean the building permit. Have you applied? Oh, Mr. Poirier. I applied in favor of all, yes. Okay, our zoning administrator is gonna, oh, okay, go ahead, John. I wrote you a letter with my, with comments. If you didn't receive it, I'll make sure I send it again tomorrow. I saw you. Oh, I didn't receive anything. Okay, I'll send it again. I'm sorry you didn't get it. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Do you have the correct mailing address? There's an email. Email, yeah, it's keepersflooringactoutlook.com. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Are those coming around? Yeah, okay. Route 14 and Marshfield intersection Anne has been doing some work on that. Very brief about it. Yeah. Good bar for Brighton at town. We were hoping to have a neighborhood meeting last week. We all lost the power in the village. So we did not have that meeting, but Keith, come in. I'm terrible with the last names. From Central Vermont Regional Planning Council has said that he will do a speed study on Route 14. I did also mention that we, we're hoping to look at Backstreet and Marshfield Road the issues with people coming off onto Route 14. I know one of my neighbors had someone pass her in front of the store when she came off Marshfield Road to come to the post office and someone right there like in drove right around her. So I also had asked about the possibility of putting a new Montpelier has a crosswalk by the high school that has these flashing lights that are kind of going all the time. But I had mentioned to Keith it'd be nice if we could have some kind of queue because I don't know pragmatically how much we can do things to the road itself to slow traffic down so what other tools are available. So we are in the process I brought in Kari to do a site visit initially with Keith and there's another gentleman who was currently on vacation which is why I don't think we've heard back yet to take a look, see and kind of talk more about it. And then I hope to meet with the neighbors because I know there's a lot of ideas and hopes and I need to also pull in V-trance because I don't know exactly what we can and can't do on Route 14. But I'm assuming they're kind of busy with eclipse related road stuff. So I'll follow up with her. There was a traffic study done for all of those reasons I think about 15 years ago and I can pry into it my fingers on. I had a copy but I don't, do I give it to you? Your 2000 board notes you showed me that I did not. Well it must, somehow it's not in the file so I have a copy somewhere. So essentially all those issues were addressed and engineers looked at and there were options provided. At least I saw it look like primarily based on Backstreet and Marshfield Road as far as what direction of traffic. Essentially I think it was a consulting firm that was hired. It was an engineering firm. Yeah, in the state, the state was involved and one of the problems is the state needs accident data from there to really move anything ahead and there literally is no accident data that is significant in there. So you're gonna be dealing with anything you do that involves sidewalks or any kind of other traffic controls on Route 14 or all of them have to be trans issues. They're not gonna be very friendly about that because they don't see it as really a problem. So just understand that before you really deal with it. Oh yeah, now we worked a lot with VTrans last year. So, and I know, yeah, that is definitely a partner we have to bring on forward, but there are grants for crosswalks and at least they can do a current study in its current state.  It's gonna be uphill, yeah, I know. Well, I'm sure it's still gonna go. I'm gonna tell you a bit in stage of who all over again and even the discussion of putting a crosswalk in is gonna be very difficult because they don't see the need for it, unfortunately. They have their standings about what they'll move ahead on when they move, so just be aware of that and do some discussion. Yeah, well, Keith can help with that, can't he? Yeah, are there two of these? There's just the attitude. I'll just mention that there was a specific suggestion of putting some kind of mirror up and John Redmond, who's the property owner of where the logical place, I guess, for this mirror would be, is open to that and he would like to participate in a discussion like this. I don't know if he's part of your group. He was gonna come tonight, but then he realized it was the eclipse. I don't know, sneaky thing. There's one suggestion that the old prior slot board did have was reducing the speed limit to after the ball field to 40. We were able to have them move that 40 mile an hour and then we put up greater signs than either side of the village again. So, greater signs. Oh, yeah, they have a lot to blame for the speed and I think they helped somewhat, but yeah, if you got people that are gonna speed it again. So the state, again, that's a right away state, right away and we've got permission to do that at town expense, so those are the steps that essentially the state has already adopted to try and deal with the other things they say. But I've looked at the history of accidents in that area. There's, you know, online and there's a state accident reporting portal where you can look at that and there's just not enough data to generate what we're looking for at social time as far as the state seems to discuss. They should talk about near accidents. I've been involved in a couple of those. Yeah, but they aren't recording them for us. So much more, I call the state police every time you have a near one. Actually, one of them was a state police car came and would be around the corner, slammed out of brakes and skidded sideways and missed me.  The Marshfield has, you know, they have their please respect the village signs that are posted along and I didn't, and again, I need to talk to the transfers about the, yeah, we can encamp it. Okay, well, thanks, and should I put you on the next agenda? Sure, we might have more information there. Yeah, okay. Moving on, Nick, been looking into moving the town generator. Also, see my role in the generator was as a grant writer and as a point of contact with the vendor of bookshelves service, install the generator in August last year. And shortly after the generator went in, it was obvious to everyone, I think, that it was really constricting, congesting that corner of the parking area and the access out back and the ADA entrance. And let's see, I had neglected to, there had been informal awareness, general awareness that the generator was going in, but I had neglected to make a formal request to the design advisory board about that, didn't collaborate, so that was a serious omission, but in any case, we met there to look at the new generator with the DAB and discussed different ways of making it better, including moving the generator. The DAB asked me to get a quote from Bookfield Service on what it would cost to do that and a month later, Bookfield Service sent us a contract saying 2,300, 2,000, 3,733 dollars, something like that, I have a cure for them last year, to move the generator up to 10 feet. And ideally, the DAB was recommending that we get pushed back as close as the propane tank is possible and as far east toward the pedestal of the electric meter as possible. So nothing happened for several months and then I circled back to it again recently. And I said, I wanna first find out a contact with Bookfield Service and say, is the quote still good as a 30 day quote? And please confirm the allowable minimum distances between the generator and the propane tank, the generator and the pedestal. And they wrote back the next day saying, minimum to the LP tank is 10 feet, minimum to the pedestal is five feet and minimum to the utility pole is 15 feet. That was unexpected because I came out the next day and measured and measured on this exactly within a couple of inches. That's, we're over there. And so evidently, and this discussion never took place on where they took those measurements and brought them right up to those minimum permitted distance. So there it is, I don't, there may be other ways and creative ideas for repositioning it, but I can't, I'm not thinking of any, but please, let me know if you do. And so, that's a recent development. That thing was in the last five days that we got this letter from Bookfield Service for those of them. So we're stuck there apparently and that's a good idea. And then somewhat tangentially related is I started thinking about the, what if we moved, what if we had this door designated as the ADA compliance entry instead of afterwards, which would delete some of that congestive object. And said to John, into card, and John said, it's a great idea, except we've already, we've already asked about that when the reconstruction was happening on the building and there is a nonqualifying, I think it's the distance between the diagonal brace holding up the little roof of the door, the distance between that and the center of the door handle and a couple of other things, non-compliant. So I contacted for months, I'm from the time of living, Peter Youngie, who is, works there and they have a contract to provide technical assistance on questions of ADA compliance. And Cara mentioned to me that Peter and Cara had walked around doing a kind of a compliance inspection in December, so Peter is already very familiar with this site in the town hall, out of the town office. I said, Peter, is there ever ways that you can get a variance? Is there something that's close to not go there or it's stimulating circumstances? And he said, yeah, sometimes I can come take a look. So Peter is scheduled to come here tomorrow at 3 p.m. for this tape measure and his rule book. And I don't know if it's gonna be a informal consultation or whether he's actually gonna write it up, but he's gonna give us a sense about whether there might be any opportunity for a variance. We don't wanna go messing with the door or the roof of the door. I think that this is about whether he would find, could identify some exceptional circumstance or say, well, it's not quite compliant, but it's easier access to straight a shot for somebody coming in to the meeting room and so on. So that's about where it stands. If anyone, anyone, Kari's and his planning line, I think it's still coming tomorrow. And anyone else I contacted, John, about that. If anyone's interested, Peter said them more in the mirror. So any questions? So with the inability to move it where DAB would prefer it, is that sort of in their perspective, DAB perspective, then that's it and it's okay to stay there? I haven't had that conversation with you. I sent them the information, I sent them the last email from up a field, but I haven't had that conversation with DAB, so that's... Do you wanna chime in, John, or do you feel you have to talk to everybody else before you could say anything? No, I don't. John is on the DAB. I wouldn't know what to say. I mean, if we were starting from scratch, then the DAB could talk about all other locations. Now we're talking about keeping it sort of in the same area or hoping to move it a little bit. If we can't, we can't. It's just gonna sort of, the aesthetics are most important to the DAB. I have nothing to do with the ADA door. And whether this is the dedicated ADA door, that is, people are gonna choose whatever door they want. I think screening had come up in previous conversations is screening still a possibility for as like a plan B. If we put a screen in that will further impinge the clearances around that corner, obviously, because I'm assuming like most other electrical components, there's gonna have to be like at least a three or four foot clearance, just from any other kind of physical obstruction from it. But maybe that's not the case, and maybe it can be a little bit closer, but that would... Screening was something the DAB asked for, besides the move. Yeah. Something appropriate and historic, just like YLACs or something, no, it's short. Yeah, maybe vegetation. I haven't asked that question, and that's a great suggestion. I'll contact for a little bit of time. If there's... Oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead, please. If we were able to move the door, ADA door over here, that would leave the situation a little bit because there's, John mentioned that there's still a compliance, outstanding issue with getting the grading and if the grading's right, that confines the vehicle access a little more and the currently, the distance between the generator and the corner of the porch is 17 and a half feet, which in the face of it sounds ample, but it's not really ample when you try to make the... And tell me if I have this wrong, the grading to the door needs to be corrected. And so that would squeeze things more. So we might pick up some grading room by the time we move on. Actually, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, you could, if this became the dedicated ADA door, then you could fiddle with the grading at that door any way you wanted the gravel outside. So what's gonna happen next is you guys are gonna need to talk about... This is the first I heard, but Center for Independent Living can't grant variance, but they could write a persuasive letter to a fire marshal who administers the code and we could ask for a change in designation from one door to another. I suspect they'll be agreeable to that. But in terms of the DAB approving some kind of screening? Just like I say, it's unrelated to ADA access. Right. I mean, I'm not the chair of the DAB, but I can write the two surviving members of the room. We're down to three now. Okay, if you're getting... We're gonna appoint another one today. All right. But I'll ask them what they wanna do about it. We've gotta meet in Kent's corner anyway soon so we might as well throw this on our list of things to do. Okay. Available to join that discussion. All right. Thanks, Nick. Okay, well, a little bit I know. You're welcome. I can believe it. If I were to rewind the movie. I'd try to describe the different types of scenarios. All right. Anything else on that one? I would just say I guess to that end, it would be good to know what Brookfield says about parents as for both structural and vegetative screening. Just to have it as useful information for consideration, but who knows what money is available in the future before, but I think we commit to any kind of screening. I think we should probably take another look at, if we were starting over and we did wanna relocate it, where would that be and just see if there's another grant that's available for relocating it before we commit to a screening solution that then has to either be undone or reconstructed or something or other. But other than that. But I will pull up again. And just from my personal perspective, and this is not representing any other group, I'd love to see the whole thing screened. The stanchion will be, the tank generator. You're really nice to have something that the tank really rooms large too. Just to add that when Peter came and inspected this building and the office, his primary recommendations were to provide smooth services to the doors and entrances. So ideally he'd pay the entire lot in both cases, but at a minimum get from wherever the parking is to that door. So more of that fits into our home term plan. All right, thank you. Personnel policy. Policy committee's been working hard on this. The attorney has reviewed it. Thanks, Debbie. Yep. Yeah. But you're not staying here. Are you staying because you want to because we don't live like, I'm not kicking you out. I just want to be sure you're not staying because you think you have to. Oh, no, definitely not. Okay, that's all right. Okay. This has been very interesting so far. Well, boy, do we have a job for you. I don't think not that much. For the crossbar, if you guys want to put in, what if you moved the bus stop ups and made a school bus stop? Whoa. Because you already used the post office and the store. But if there was just one store, you have the majority of school kids right here. Okay. Thanks. Yeah, just saying all the older kids do catch the bus at the store, the younger kids. But it happens and has to combine things or something. If you move them, set them over to one, that might help you build up. It's good to know. Thank you. All right, personnel policies. So, also BLCT reviewed it and made some comments. And here it is, if... And it's based on the BLCT model template, which our current policies are based on. So it's actually, there's not so many major changes. There are some. And we've reviewed it to ensure that it meshes with other policies. So actually, Jordan and I were both on the committee. So I guess I would say Ann, Donnie and Jamie, do you have any questions about this or comments or concerns? You know, y'all put a lot of work in it. It is, yeah, very different from the original one. Very comprehensive and, yeah, very good eye for human resources. I did want to ask one question without that employment. Like concerning the road crew because, like, when Peter with us, he did odd jobs on the weekend that often precluded him from being called in. So is that gonna be, you know, is it considered just like their regular, whether it's Friday schedule or... I just didn't know if that would impinge on if, you know, people... I'm gonna review it. So primary occupation of a full-time police should be with the town. Well, it says that their supervisor could approve it. Yeah. So that would be you, Clarice. Yeah, so at our discretion. So they were just like, maybe we're okay, I usually do. Yeah, we'll work it out, right? Maybe we want to be reasonable about it. But the road crew or community governs their contracts, supersedes this to a certain extent. So that kind of aligned, I think, with that, with the line. We tried to bring it as close to the length in the contract as possible so that that everything was kind of subject to the employer's approval and we added a bit in there It was not perfect to it at some point. It was, it became an issue. We preserved the right for the manager to say something. But for a special road crew, it goes in. So you're retaining the ability to say, no, it's not working. But we want to be reasonable. It's what I thought. It's what I, yeah. Say go with Son. He's fairly flexible now. Anything else? Nope. Connie, Jamie? Anyone? Barbara has a question. Well, let me give this a blackboard chance. Okay, Barbara. Will you entertain a question? Yes, please. Is there the possibility of grandfathering in for those of us who've been working under their current policy and now something has dramatically changed? So for example, you now have a vacation approval to 30 days and I've been working for the last many years under the policy where there was no cap and can that be grandfathered as an exception because otherwise I'm gonna lose three weeks of vacation. Okay. I think that's, we're gonna have to talk about that. I think the policy committee probably ought to talk about it and make a recommendation on that. That was the first we'd heard of it. It's the first, I mean, it's just, it's the first thing I've seen in the new policy. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no criticism. I'm just, don't let us forget it. Well, let's talk about it next time we meet. Okay, but I mean, if you guys approve this policy tonight. We'll be able to make an exception. We'll close the door on that. Okay, thank you. And it's also, it's a dramatic decrease in the cruel of sick days as well. I've also approved more sick days than what this has kept at, but that's not dramatic the right in my case should agree on this. Anything else? In that case, would somebody like to move that we approve and sign? Is that what we need to do? I guess we approve the policy. Adopt, we adopt and sign the policy. Ann has moved it. Second. Jordan's seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Opposed? Thank you. Carly has a copy coming around. Next, the committee is going to, I think perhaps even by next week, the committee is going to bring you a whole bunch of other just in-house policies like financial policy and purchasing policy and banking policy that we've sort of been working on. And hopefully we'll get all these policies cleaned up and we'll move on to ordinances soon. Okay. Ann, I had a question. Is there a date on this board? It's going to have today's date. Yes. Post-no-approven adoption revised personnel policy dated today? It's dated, it is dated April. Yeah. Is there a signature to pay as it needs to be signed? It's coming around. Okay. Okay, Curtis Pond, damn. Jamie, we have some news. Well, we've had a... Bill, I guess this isn't new. This isn't new. Three years is just coming. Yeah, so as when the bids came in high and we went to the value-added engineering process with Larry Hebert, one of the bidders, we knew that that was taking engineering time above and beyond what was in the original contract for that phase of getting us through the bid process. So this is an amendment to the contract of getting us through the bid process. It's not anything we have to pay right now, but it's an additional, I believe $16,000. And I had a long chat with Michael and we've been brainstorming ways to deduct. If you'll remember that the final engineering contract that we haven't actually signed yet, but we'll be looking at soon is for construction oversight, which I believe was budgeted for 90, do you remember, Carrie, 92,000, 95,000? Something like that. Somewhere in the low to mid-90,000. He thinks that he can make up the 16,000 overage or close to it with reductions off of where that ends up. And that there's, it's basically dependent on what level of employee in the firm has to be supervising what part of construction. So they can have some lesser paid newer employees oversee some other sections of it that they're qualified to do. So he's represented that we'll still be able to come in within the 150,000 that we have budgeted for engineering, even with this overage. So I'm recommending we go ahead and sign this. I have a few other updates, but are there questions on this specific? I would usually want to know that it doesn't tack on board with the town. That's always my caveat, but... I mean, that's the, yeah, I mean, as far as we are working through the process, we're still on budget. And your fund raising. Yeah. And you've got the loan. Yeah, so I'll move into related updates. I've been talking to an email exchange with Stephanie Smith, who is the representative we're working with through the BRIC program, just the department of FEMA or the project of FEMA. I don't know exactly how it works. That would be administrating the $525,000 that was earmarked in the federal budget for the Curious Pondam. In Bernie Sanders section. In Bernie Sanders section, yep. Initial communications indicate that it's probably not gonna be super helpful to us. They have a whole process FEMA has to go through to approve the project before they can administer funds. And what they're currently saying is that they need to go through that process and approve the project before the project starts, and that they won't be doing any project approvals until September. They won't just do it now, so. Yeah. So. Did you guys talk to Bernie about that? Yeah, I've had some back and forth with his office. I'm still working on different tax, trying to connect the right person, talking to the right person to see if there's a workaround. But, and that CPA board and a bunch of other people been talking, and it doesn't seem, because the CPA has the loan, because we have the funding to be able to do it this year, even without the Bernie money, some people have said, well, maybe we should wait a year and then we can use this money, but everybody thinks that's a bad idea. The price could go up that much again, and we'd be in the same boat, there could be disasters. So the current understanding is still what it was last time that we'll be working with Larry in the coming weeks, fine tuning and agreement, and the CPA will finalize the loan, collect the funds, we've collected almost all outstanding pledges, there's a few kicking around still, and we expect to be able to transfer the money from the CPA and the community center to the town in the next couple of weeks, and then the town will have, in its coffers, the full $1.2 million budget will be ready to move forward. And if we get some Bernie bucks, by, you know, I'm working with the engineers, there might be some things that, you know, we can kick to the following year, some, you know, taking out the riprap that we put in after the flood, that's a eight or 10, $12,000 project. It's unclear if we would be able to move stuff around and still use some of the federal money to pay for pieces of it, but we're looking into those options. Questions for Jamie? So going back to the first point about the engineer contract supplement, I'd say to your concern, I think best case scenario, it's sort of a wash, if the engineering can come in under contract, the worst case scenario, it eats into our contingency budget, and I suppose there may be a way to, I don't know if the borrowing amount is set at this point or if that could be expanded, but I think there's still a commitment that the town is going to contribute no more than it already is obligated at this point. Anything above and beyond is coming from some other source. And I don't know what it means to not accept this because they did the work. Right, oh no, we need to do it, I don't know what to hope about that when you're using something later because that doesn't feel terrible pragmatic when you're dealing with engineers, so. Well, yeah. I just wanna hope it did somehow. It'd be interesting to get a little more clarity on what the construction management portion includes because my understanding of those fees is it's somewhat subjective because if there's already a working relationship between the contractor and the engineering firm, then there's not a lot of plan interpretive support that is required for facilitating the project and how much of that $90,000 scuba tape is allocated to that kind of plan interpretation support versus how much of it is like making sure that somebody's on site to make, like compliance, where I could absolutely see that on the compliance side of things, who in the firm is doing the compliance is going to have an effect there, but I would also expect that certain amount of that interpretive services would be reduced because Larry's been working directly with them to modify these plans. So if Michael could maybe speak to that, that would be, in the future, that would be good to know, but my assumption is that that's gonna be part of why he's saying, or why he's comfortable saying that we should be able to come under budget on that. Right, absolutely, and I've asked him when we are looking at that contract to provide a more detailed breakdown of exactly where those funds are. Perfect. Yeah. So that contract is forthcoming in the next two weeks, saying? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's been drawn up, I think. Seems like it's time. Yeah. Yeah, and we're still on schedule to start in June? Yeah, as far as everyone's saying, we're still there, there's a little bit of a, still a little bit of back and forth going on, I think, between Michael and Larry, and Dam Safety, just like very minute, I know. But so I think that the reason we haven't seen the final contracts is there's still some conversations happening over on the side there. I'd make a motion to approve the, do we all need to sign it, or do we just need to kind of just take it away? It's just the, it's addressed to me. To authorize Jamie. Yeah, make a move. Motion to authorize Jamie to sign the amended Du Bois King budget modification for change orders. It's a contract amendment. Contract amendment. Okay. Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Rose, you all sit there. Okay, thanks. Okay. We've also gotten a, the Conservation Commission has interviewed and would like to recommend Claire Haskell for the four year term ending in 2028. And they have also said that they're getting well, Larry's here. They're getting more interest in the planning, I mean, the conservation commission and they don't at this time, wish us to reduce the seats. Yeah. So you could just leave it as it is. When Claire comes on, we'll only have one vacancy. There's not any immediately available to do that, but Claire makes the third person in less than a year that we've attracted to the commission. So we feel pretty good about where we stand personally. Oh, and can I repeat what you said in your nice note to me about the select board, giving us credit for some of that? Well, I mean, it's just a, largely uninformed observation, but it seems like there's a boom in willingness of people to join the local commissions and bodies, the planning commission being the primary example of that. And I would guess that a part of this enthusiasm could be connected to everything that happened last year and the disasters that hit this town and the way it was dealt with so well by a lot of people, including you, that it might have been part of what's encouraging the younger people to say, yeah, I need to step up, because that's what seems to be happening on a small scale. Catch yourselves on the dive, guys. Well, I also recognize that Barbara is in a lot of sketch. Yeah. To keep her on this question. Yes. All right, so motion then to appoint Claire Haskell, you saw her note that she sent to the conservation commission for four year term. Jamie's moved. Second. Jordan's seconded, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay, thank you. And Chris Cochran, who was on the design advisory board before, he was on the historic preservation commission and he used to run the historic preservation division, didn't he? Yeah, he has offered to serve on the design advisory board for a four year term ending in 2028. So, would you like to appoint him? So moved. So Jordan's moved. Second. Anna's seconded, and Tula, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Thanks. I wanna report that I've exchanged some emails with folks on the historic preservation commission. It turns out that they were created by ordinance, which is a little strange, but it seems to be an ordinance. I actually pulled it out because we are giving them some actual responsibility to enforce some laws, some state laws. And under this ordinance, we've agreed that they're gonna have a majority of seven members, I'm sorry, at least seven members, so we can't reduce it below that if we want to still be eligible for, so I'm not the member that stands for, certified local government, certified local government money. All right, this is what makes us eligible for that money. And they've used it to do a lot of projects in town. So can you clarify whether or not that, so the ordinance dictates the seven, but does anything else dictate that it has to be seven or? No, state losses at least three and no more than nine. I see, okay. But, so this makes us. To make a change, it would need to be in the ordinance. Well, if we were to change it, we'd no longer be eligible for this money that we've been using for a lot of the projects that they're doing, because we would not be following this ordinance. Right, I guess what I'm saying is if we wanted to make a change, it would be a change to the ordinance, it would be an act to the ordinance revision. I guess so, yeah. If we wanted to change it to five, for instance, if we were having a hard time maintaining a quorum of seven, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. In any case, they're asking us not to, we could reduce it by, it's nine currently. We could reduce it to seven, but they're actually mounting a recruitment effort and asked us not to do this yet. I also had a discussion with them about coming to talk to us, and they jumped on it. They said, yes, we've been doing all this wonderful stuff over the years, and we would love to come and tell you about it. So I would like to invite them maybe to the next meeting, if possible, if not one after that, we'll have to see. All right, we'll hear from them. Okay, energy committee. Bill Powell is calling a meeting. We've got a few more people who've been interested in the meeting. I've directed them to use the meeting to talk about what kind of a structure the energy committee would be, whether it would be advisory or a standing committee or something else, and what they would see is their mission statement. There are a few people who would like to be involved in the discussion at that level who don't want to serve on the committee. So Bill's working on that. He asked that at least one of us go to that meeting. So would any of you be interested in going to the organizational meeting, or it's not even that, it's the meeting to discuss what the organization of this committee should be? Is it scheduled yet? They have not scheduled it. Is there a plan to do it by Zoom? I'm just gonna say I'm involved, okay, no plan. Yeah, go for it then. It can be more than one of us. I'm thinking, I would vote no. Depending on what it is. Okay, I'll tell you. Sorry, I'm not interested. Yeah, I'm happy to listen in if I can. Okay, they would love that. They would love that. So I will let Bill know that we're all interested. Well, Donnie, I didn't hear from you. Depends on what it is. Yeah, okay, in energy committee meeting. Yeah, there seems to be a lot of interest, but it's as a couple of people have pointed out, so far all the interest is coming from the usual players. So I'm hoping that once they've got a mission statement, we can try to recruits and the other people pull them in. Okay, Development Review Board. Willa and I, Willa is the vice chair of the Development Review Board. We've been talking about holding a joint meeting with the two boards. Willa and I are gonna meet on Thursday to talk about what that might look like. They're meeting tomorrow to talk. Just to have the discussion, as we've talked about it in the past, about what kind of direction we'd like to see them be thinking about. I'd like to be clear that we cannot talk about specific cases because they decided those cases, they can't talk about those. And we can't talk about what we did in executive session, so we're not gonna talk about individual people. We're just gonna be talking about policy and process and stuff. So do you guys wanna, I'm gonna talk to Willa on Thursday. Do you guys wanna throw out some ideas for some times? First of all, do you like this idea of just the two boards meeting and a joint meeting? I think it's a great idea. Okay, good. So you think that would be a special meeting as opposed to something that would be tacked on to a regular meeting? Yes. It wouldn't be a five o'clock before a select board meeting. It could be, I guess that's an option if that's what you'd prefer. I don't know. I feel like I've been a pretty strong opponent of the Marathon ones and I'm still, yeah, I'm getting pretty burrs out. I'm open to any of it, but it's an important conversation and what sometimes I think is, if we have a full agenda or something like that, we have a tendency to wanna wrap up the conversation and move on and I think if it works for everybody scheduled to have a special meeting that we don't have the pressure of other agendas immediately proceeding it, I wouldn't be opposed to scheduling a separate night and dedicating some time to it, for sure. Maybe on an alternate week from when we have our... Oh, that's a great idea. I also don't like emergency management every Tuesday after the select board. So I can suggest that to them on Monday at six o'clock? Yeah. Does that work for everybody? Okay, that's a good idea.  Even a Saturday? I work on Saturday. Oh, sorry, yeah. Saturday afternoon and you close at noon, don't you? I close, well, yeah, I can come and... Saturday is a good idea. They only get a day and a half off, so yeah. Yeah, I'll suggest Monday at six. I bet you we can find a Monday that we can all do. Okay. All right, great. Ah, conservation commission expenditure. I bet that's why you're here. It is why I'm here. You know, I'm not even sure you need our approval for this. It's all in the budget, but go ahead. Okay, well, we weren't sure about that. And I apologize for taking up your time. I'm sorry to interrupt this. It's a relatively small amount of money at least, but it's an important project and I think it's become clearer since the budget process when, since Lakes and Streams has now specified what the subjects are going to be, that this is truly going to, should be, if it comes out the way they hope it would, a real benefit to the town and its citizens, especially the people-owned property around the lakes and ponds that are covered by the new zoning regulations. This is going to be something that everybody should have in their lakeside or stream side house, you know, sort of tacked up on their bulletin board. It's not something that could be filed off on front porch form or anything else because it's going to cover and explain the ordinary people one holds. What exactly the plan commission did and we voted to approve for regulation around lakes and streams, particularly lakes. And so going ahead with it and the conservation commission felt like of all the things that we might want to use the education money for this year and there could be a number that this is really the most important thing, I say, because of the service that it's provided to the town. So we're just asking if we can use that money, we don't need your permission, we'll just do it. I don't see why you're taking things out of your own budget here. Well, because we come to you back in the budget process and asked for a specific line item, which we were grateful that you did, you also asked $750, I frankly was expecting to get nothing out of it. So, but so we went through a round where we asked you guys for a lot more and things were tied so we didn't get it, but we still need a lot more. We needed them. I'd like to have had a ceremony on both of these bodies. It can't be done adequately, it's pretty clear unless we have the six page phone out and that's about not quite $1,800 based on the publisher's estimate. And if we added this money from the conservation commission we've got $1,000, so we're looking at about $750 coming from somewhere else. We've made a proposal or request to the Maple Corn Community Center for some support. I think maybe we didn't have it done as good a job there in explaining why this is really important and merits their aid. I think the letter just may have skated over a bit too much, but anyway, we're just trying to get this thing out this summer or early fall and just wanted to be able to add a few more dollars to the pot we have for paying, because if you want to authorize some more, we wouldn't be happy to do that. But we're not asking for it. Let's see, Jordan, you wanted to disagree with me. Oh, no, no, no, necessarily. I was just wondering, you're hearing what Larry is saying and I think it's a significant change in the regs that would kind of behoove everybody. So I'm wondering, actually, if there's a dedicated item in the planning commission's budget for communication. It won't be calm, I suppose. For once, I think we cut most of their requests. I don't think they have a communication newsletter one. It's just for town plan work. They have 200 for education and training. I am. Probably not, sorry, second to that. I've heard it against myself, but the planning commission, this is a big year for them to be with the town plan. Yeah, agree. Jamie, oh, sorry, I thought you wanted to say something. No, okay. Well, if we don't need your authorization, then we'll go forward with that. I appreciate that guidance. One of the things I wanted to say before I shut up and hopefully head to the door there is one item that I could get on your agenda. I had concerns with the survey of the town forest of Lisbon town forest, our biggest and frankly, most important one, that Paul Hannon has been working on pro bono for us for several years now, hoping he can be the whole survey project without cost to the town. That's relatively recently become clear that's not happening because coming May 31st, Paul is out here and won't be working on anything, only certainly not this. So he has been working with a professional surveyor on this for quite some time. And they've talked about her finishing it up and how much she would probably charge. It's probably gonna be between 3,500 and 5,000 depending on how much work she has to do. Paul estimates that what he's already put in pro bono would have cost the town well over $10,000. So he and I both would like to come in front of this body hopefully at your next meeting because the meeting after that, he's got the Massachusetts residence, I think. So, and just to talk to you about this and why it's important and necessary and where the money can come from. If it is. Where are you hoping the money will come from? That we'll find it or do you have some ideas? Well, we see this as a kind of standard town property maintenance issue and not something that we would hope would be paid for from the conservation fund because we're very optimistic that in the coming two years that money's gonna be an important part of supporting a number of conservation projects, land conservation projects in town. I did find and they don't have it with me and I don't have exact terminology but at some point the last time there was a harvest 30 years ago generated about $14,000 and I guess it was the conservation commission at the time. So if they worked out an arrangement of the select board for that $14,000 could be used to pay for things necessary in the town forest. I'm not aware of it ever being used for anything so I can't make an absolute airtight case that they should be at least $14,000 floating around here somewhere. That's very optimistic Larry, very optimistic. So, I'm sorry about just throwing this in your lap. It should come to you in a more of a formal detail proposal and understanding. I just wanted to mention it tonight because I didn't wanna throw it in your lap. Appreciate that. Before you heard about it. Larry, can I charge you when we get that presentation? I'm curious whether or not you'd mentioned that the town forests are under a management plan that included harvest but I'm wondering it's controversial topic but there are programs that offer payments for carbon sequestration and I wonder if they have- Have I considered that? It'd be interesting especially now since there's been the change of land use wrecks that includes old growth forest designations and may be in some sort of tandem designation that we could generate more revenue through a program like that as opposed to a more traditional harvesting program. Well, it would come as no secret to one or two people in this room or perhaps others but there's been an active proposal in front of the conservation commission now for five or six years that the town be asked to designate the Blissfond town forest as an overgrowth regeneration area under state law now you'd probably call it an ecological reserve area that keep changing the names. It's been my proposal. And it's still out there, it's not been resolved. It hasn't, we haven't brought it to an actual vote of the commission. We all do agree, however, that it's the kind of decision that has to be made or should be made by the people themselves by a vote at a town meeting but yes, the kind of thing that you're proposing, I think would be consistent with an overgrowth designation. Is there a management plan for the four years? Yes, it's one years out of date. I think he wrote it. Are you a forester? No, no, he was a chair of the conservation commission. That's ancient history. Okay, so- I don't want to drag that closer to the president but he's a busy man and stuff. So we're not, well, why would we be in current use? I presume we don't tax our own forest. No problem. Yeah, okay. The beauty of the town plan is that, you know, you can do whatever you want with it including selling it if you want to. It's not subject to any of this sort of tax or other general regulations. It's the ideal piece of property to do what you think is best for without regard to any tax or other. Why is it important that we survey it? That we want to survey it? Yeah, why is that important? Well, because, for instance, just to take a couple, there was some unauthorized logging apparently in 1987. That could well have been because it came across the line because nobody knows where the line is. The second thing is the property lines have shown them that the town's interactive map for that forest are so inaccurate that laughable was the kindest word for them. And if you look at the Eastern property line that is mostly shared with the Valentine's, it's purported to cut them out of, I don't know, 20 acres of their land just because the lines are all wrong and they're trying to sell their property at the moment or they were, I think it's off the market now. But don't they have to do the survey then? Yes, I thought so. Well, they might have to do the survey but we would have to agree with where those lines are and those things are potentially around the whole town forest. I mean, it's just kind of irresponsible for us to not know where our land is and we've never known because of the weirdness of the way that old deeds used to be drawn up. There is also an easement that gets us into the town property, it's landlock in a sense but that's a separate issue raising separate concerns and it's not part of the survey. I'll send you a little, Paul, I hope you'll send you information about this. Yeah, it'd be good to have a little information before the meeting so we're up to speed, thank you. Any other questions for Larry? No, okay. All right, thank you. It's been fun, thank you. Are we sliding through the parts? Yes. If we could solve the waste management. Yeah, the waste management piece, yes. Go ahead, Anne. I just saw today that I believe it's the same one that came out last year right around the time he just had just been re-battle elected. But it is something that you can apply, I want to say, after $15,000 to help with trash management that includes things like tire removal. So last year we spent $1,500 to get rid of tires so we could apply for a grant. I was hoping specifically something where we could do it in a way that encourages people to bring their tires to us, not be throwing them over their towels or as happened after a great update. Oh, there's some tires on our mailbox and be proactive about it and try to get rid of any old tires as we could qualify for. Who would you propose would write this grant? I would write it. Do it, okay. I write grants. Cool. It's not a problem all day, but just to see one of the 20 nights so we need to talk about it at our next meeting so I could do it between now and then just I wanted to make sure. Yeah, my understanding was that the maximum grade per tire was $5,000. It might be $5,000, yeah, it's a lot of tires. So, yeah. Is that, if that's just for anything that's collected during green update, which could include tires, is that right? It's not even green update. It's just in general, like, that's separate from the green update. Yeah, it's separate from. I didn't think of every green update. I know my neighbors are literally always up in the Moscow woods pulling tires up from like down steep inankments and it'd be so nice if you could just like always pick steep and then do it. I know, it's like regular job here. Yeah, you can have up four tires or I don't know, we can come up with something for household to make it equitable and try to minimize how much we have people putting their life in my risk. I've written in like many times, you know, thank you for choosing the blue beer cans, but instead of throwing them down the steepest bank you could find, you could just put them on the side of the road. I'm really getting too old to be climbing up these banks. Anyway, okay. All right. And can you just tell me the name of this? Let me go put it up on it. Or you can shoot it here with an A. What is it? Central Rod Solid Waste Management District. Thank you. They're giving grants? Yeah, they do. Forward trash and recycling collection. They also don't want the trash to go over the embankment. It's very good. Okay, so it's a, you'll come to us next week with a next meeting with the proposal. Well, I can send it out to you. Please send it on here. Is there a way to, I mean, do we have to publicize it about time? I just get concerned about like heavy usage and or inequitable usage or abuse of it. And I wonder if like, if we get the grant and we keep it in the back pocket and we just say, if you're thinking about throwing tigers out of your car, maybe just bring them to the town garage. But, we talked about it at like last year when it was an issue and it's, I don't know, I still have a hard 15, I guess 15, $5,000 would go a long way. It's a lot of tires. It's a lot of tires. So we had many years piled up at the garage and they definitely could not see us. Anyone bringing them to the town garage, the guys will freak out, but if we were to have like a tire amnesty date, you know, like per household, like per car could bring and you know, say on show and show, that guy brought that. And then if his wife comes down later, we'll be like, we already saw Phil. I know. I like tire amnesty. But sometimes people feel like he is, you know, it's expensive and there's people that have like been more than that. But at least, I don't know. Because that's a big thing that gets chucked and it's an expensive thing to get rid of. So, okay. But yeah, we don't necessarily need to talk about how to put it out there if we get it. Okay. Yeah. Okay, we'll put that on the next agenda. Thank you. Which brings us to reports. And Jamie just said that she forgot to report something about her response. So why don't we start with that one? I did. Two or three-ish years ago, the Kurz-Pan Association started working with somebody in the Natural Resources Conservation Service, which is part of A&R, federal government folks. And they basically where it came down was it was probably gonna be a six to eight year process. But if we got through the six to eight year process and we hadn't figured out another solution for the dam, they would fund a big portion of it, I think 70%. But it was this, it'll be six, eight, 10 years. We don't know, it's way down the road. And so we've always been keeping that in our back pocket as like everything else fails. This process is ongoing. So they were on step three of seven or something in the process. And they just completed one step and I'm meeting with them tomorrow to start the next step. If they start the next step, which is the plan EA, which I forget that that stands for, they would need a signed agreement with the town. And they would foot 100% of the expenses associated with the plan EA process. But there would be a town role, which I would take in super coordinating some of the actual engineering work. So a meeting with him tomorrow, I think what's gonna happen is we're gonna say, just wait a month or two and see where we are. Cause we're probably gonna halt that whole process. But if he says it's now or never, like if you, we've paused it long enough, we need to start this process. If we're gonna start this process, then at the next meeting, I'll have a draft of the agreement that we would have to sign to start that process. I have, I don't know. I haven't met with him in quite a long time. So I don't know what he's gonna say. But he may say, even though you're 90% sure it's happening this summer, let's just start this process. In which case, I'll bring it to the next meeting. And we'll be able to stop it if it turns out we don't need it. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. I see you believe that. I don't even know what to write in that room, something like that. Jamie went down with a rabbit. All right, Tegan, I guess, isn't available. So, Kari. So we are getting close to, in terms of roads, we're getting close to the end of one season actually. And so we're into grading season and they were out today. They'll be out tomorrow. And then we've got the rest of the week is rain, so it won't be appropriate. But that's going to be the big focus. And unfortunately, this is Dana Uppi's last week. And so we'll be losing him. And then been watching the cash really closely and feeling really good about the fact that that Moscow Woods project was approved, not for the full federal amount, but a good portion of it will basically offset the school district tax bill when that comes, which should be any time now. So I think we're going to be okay, but we're still watching it pretty closely. Well, you had talked about hiring somebody from Eastmont. Can you help with the grading? Is that likely to happen? So, that's still to be determined. There's one of the options that was discussed that sort of got confirmation as a approval from the team was to potentially hire a higher Bruce Campbell, who expressed interest to UTDM, right? And coming back on temporary basis. Grading only. Grading only. Yeah. That seemed, that was received more favorably than hiring outside contractors to do the work. There was some concern from a UTD perspective about that. And I don't think it was a hard no, I think they prefer to go this route. So I got confirmation on that, they're feeling okay about that today. And so I'll reach out to Bruce soon to do that because we're going to, you know, the more help we have, the better. Basically touch every road. We've got two graders. It'd be nice if we can have them both calling. Yeah. Well, then two and a half guys. So that's still going to be tied with the graders because you need those two and a half guys at most projects that we're working on. Okay. Well, then you have all of them. So yeah, so, well, for now. Yeah, you're going to help with the regular. Oh, yes. We're going to talk about how I've been in the center of session. Anything else? That's all I had. I have a question that just came into my head. The CAI maps, what's the process for deciding what goes into them? I remember we appointed you the liaison to them. But who decides what we actually put on that? That's a fine question. I think we're starting with sort of the basic data, the parcel data. And then I think it's sort of up to us. And you're really asking, what's the process? We're going to use to determine that. Yeah. I'm not sure we ever figured that out. Yeah, we need a work group, you know, obviously some folks from planning would be part of it. And maybe conservationists would all have a road. But they have to go through you. So at least people are, it's not going to be a free fall. And Tegan's also very interested in this project and might be ultimately the long-term coordinator of it. I volunteered to help with this initial setup and getting them going. So we'll see. But the more we want to do with it, I think we really need to think about the process. Because as you know from the presentation, it's as flexible as it can do, basically, what we want, if we can provide the data. So despite being the one who wanted to see the presentation the most, I missed it. Can you do that? Do that. Stay out. Do you have a question about the work group? Well, I was wondering if there were some information that you could forward. Was there like onboarding information that we had received at all on its capabilities? The proposal. You've seen that, though. Yeah, I've seen the proposal. Yeah. My sense is if you wanted to give Franco a call, he was very enthusiastic about his product wants us to be happy. Didn't mind getting into the detail of it, at least when he was making his pitch to us. But I'd be surprised if he didn't take a call or anything with it. That sounds good to me. Fair enough. Thanks. Yeah, it's been really good so far. OK, thank you. Anything on the status of the court case? From Ann and Jordan? No. OK. In that case, I think the executive session is up.  So you make it for coffee. Yeah. Pack up. We'll get to that.