Hello, and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio, our NWOZO radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, May 7th, 2023. I'm Larry Rhodes or Doubter 5. And as usual, we have our co-host Wombat on the line with us. Hello Wombat. Hey, I'm going to text my friend and ask him if his counselor is actually a Christian counselor. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. Welcome, Judd Pirate from West, West Canada. Must be early there. Hi, it'd be 7am. Oh, good man. Digital Freethought Radio is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism, post-deferianism and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faiths, gods, holy books, and superstition. And I should probably put that post-deferianism over there with the religion stuff. Yeah. If you think you're the only non-believer in your town, well, you're just not. You're in Knoxville in the middle of the Bible Belt. We have a group of over a thousand of us. We're the atheist society of Knoxville or ASK. And we'll tell you more about it after the mid-show break. So be sure to stick around. That's our topic today. You can take something out of the atheist playbook. And what I want them to take is consistency. And we'll talk about that today. But before we get into that, let's have a nice little appetizer or pasta, led by our own Dread Pirate Higgs with our weekly invocation. All right. The chaos of this world we roam, one day he stands tall above the rest. The flying spaghetti monster calls his own to a saucy and noodley paradise bless. With meatballs tender and sauce divine, he nourishes our souls and warms our hearts. His noodley appendages forever entwine, guiding us through life's uncharted parts. O pasta Lord, we kneel before thee and raise our forks in praise and prayer. May thy meatball blessings set us free and thy noodles of mercy always be near. For thou art the saucy deity above whose love and grace no no end. May we forever bask in thy noodley love until our mortal coils we doth transcend. So let us sing of the flying spaghetti monster and revel in the saucy noodley bliss he doth foster. I had a flashback. There was one extra stanza to that, that, that sermon that I wasn't prepared for.  It's like, nope, there's four more lines. And you're like, okay, we're all of our eyes are open guy. I think the disconnect already getting up off your knees and we've already unplugged. It's been that prayer already. We're good to go. It's like, and lo behold that God is like, we get it. We get it. Just hit send. God's happy. Guys, I'm so happy to hear from all of you guys. How about we do a quick, just something to see how we've been and then we can go straight into the topic layer. We're going to put you first. How you been? Oh, I'm fine. Had my 73rd birthday yesterday. Well, let's go. Happy birthday. Thanks. Play computer games all day and had a lovely dinner and cake instead of last night. Fantastic. Hey, you look good for 73. Still working. Still working. That's awesome. Yeah, I went out and played some disc golf with my friends yesterday. Let's see. I also had a funny incident happen where I locked myself out of my car at the disc golf park. Now I had a situation where I'm locked out of my car. I'm in a place where there's no one around me, but I am a big fan of preventative maintenance. So I have a plan, even though my car and my phones locked my car. I do have my friends with me and I said, Hey, can you drive me to my home? And I realized I left my car keys, my home keys in my car too. I said, actually, can you take me to Lowe's? I did have my wallet on me. They drove me to Lowe's. I picked up a ladder. Why did I pick up a ladder? Because I leave my window open for my cat at my place and all I needed was a ladder to be able to get back to my home. Or I had strategically placed location, a spare key available in my home. I just needed access to it. So I already had this planned out. I'm not stressed out. We go to Lowe's. We pick it up. We go back home. We filled out the ladder.  And then I went to back to the park, unlocked my car keys, had access to all my keys, played around disc golf, went back to Lowe's in my own car, dropped off the ladder, had a funny story to tell them at Lowe's. Got a full refund. Overall, good day. But I'm saying, you know, it's easy if I was religious minded, I could have blamed that on karma. I could have said there was 14 different things. But I can say that it's nice to have a problem solving mindset and realize that things can go wrong and have some. Sure. And I would recommend. Yeah, how spare keys there are so, so important. That's my best preventive major. All right, dread. What's up. How you bed. Not too bad. I had sent along to you guys the article that was recently written by Jeremy Hainesworth. With regard to my ongoing plate with. Now, the fourth government institution, the home bus persons office. Yeah, very encouraging. But, you know, having read having read thoroughly the court case to which these people have referred. I discovered that actually that court cases in my favor. And because they've. All these agencies have subs subsumed the authority to determine a person's religiosity. Whether it's valid or not. Definitely outside of their, their purview outside of their mandate. Yeah. And I have them on that. And if I have to hire a lawyer to sue them, I will. Good. And for a good amount. Make it worth the time. Many noodles will be bought. If you have to hire a lawyer to sue them. If it was possible to like sue not for money, but for time and say like, if I win this lawsuit, you have to have a pot of noodles with me at like this. And one, that'd show like how much good will you had behind it. And to enforce people to do something silly. And realize, oh, this is what we've been fighting against for millions and millions of man hours. What have we been doing?  That sounds like it's a really good follow through to our topic today, because it's about. People not representing the things that they stand for. And when I see people subsuming justice and integrity and objective fairness for everyone, yet they are being deliberately penalizing marginal marginalized groups for no, for no reason other than they think they have the authority to do so. It sort of strikes me as.  I want to take a nicer word for it. I can say you are not following the rules that you are.  And I say you can learn something from the atheist code of which there isn't, but there is a single position in atheism, which is I don't believe in a God. And that is a very consistent. And I want to throw up a couple of stories. I'd love to hear from everyone else, but one of the stories I have is that our potluck at our job, we have a lot of people from India, a lot of people from India or Hindu. And I know who in our group are Hindu and who aren't. So it's not everyone that's Indian, but they will sometimes bring in over tacos and they'll be steak tacos that people can make. And I see the Hindus reaching out for the meat and putting them in their, in their tacos and eating. I'm like, oh, hold on. Hold on. Don't do that. And I've seen them do it with chili before too. I've been like, don't do that. There's, there's beef in there. And they'll look at me and it's like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. Don't worry about it. And they'll just keep it. It was like, hey, hell, isn't like beef a whole, like a holy, holy situation of being. He's like, it's fine. It's fine. Don't worry about it. It's like, why is it my job as an atheist to remind you about your own code of conduct for your particular religion? And the same thing. I have family that's our Muslim. And we had Ramadan recently. And I'll reach out to them and say, Hey, happy Ramadan. And they'll send me back pictures of the food that they're eating in the countries that they're living in. And I'll, and they'll be eating the food in the pictures. And I'm like, is that recent cause like you, or this is like during like the week of Ramadan where you're supposed to be fasting. I'd be like, aren't you like, I'm doing the math in my head. Like you shouldn't be eating right now. It's like, it's fine. It's fine. You can eat during fasting on Ramadan because it's only allowed to eat what you're not allowed to eat when the sun is up. But once the sun is down, you can eat. And I did the math. I'm like, wait a second. Isn't it three o'clock where you're at right now? Like, where's this? Yeah, but it's cloudy. It's true. You get that. And I feel like with Christianity, there's a lot of examples where even me as a religious person, I can't tell you how many times my mom has asked for like, a Christmas present, even though she's a Jovo witness or she'll, she'll like, she'll indirectly be angry at you. If you don't give her like a call on Christmas day or Easter, or give her a birthday gift, even though she's not supposed to have that where she'll ask for information on blood transfusions that she's had issues with, or inquiries about surgeries that she'll have, even though she's. Sorry, testing. Why is it up to me to know those rules basically. And so I would love to hear if you had similar examples of. People who are religious, not following the religious code and you as an atheist being aware of that. And like, Dred, I know you have the perfect example because it's what you're going through in courts right now. Your voice. Your voice is a little high. Going to talk to me while I fix the microphone. Going to talk. That sounded really weird. Yeah. It's like you put it on fast forward or something. Your voice is fast forward. We don't have to dominate the entire show on it. We're like. Catch up for me. Be a good co-host catch up for me. Larry. Yeah. Go ahead, Dred. Well, I, I'm sorry. I kind of missed the question. But I did want to make a point because you said that a lot of people from. India or Hindus, but there's also a lot of seeks. And those two are. Religious are quite different. So. I wonder if that is making a distinction without a difference, but. I just thought I'd add that. What about seeks? Well, that. So. Ty had said that. There was a lot of. The recent celebration went to. There was a lot of Hindus. And, and people often don't distinguish the difference between. Or can't distinguish the difference between a Sikh and Hindu. Well, usually. Would not seeks do not like to be called Hindus. Right. We know the difference and they're the ones who educated us. And yeah, there's just a lack of when they're out of a minute, when they're out of an area where there's a lot of other Hindus, they don't follow the rule, their own tenants as strictly because no one's watching as, as closely or willing to correct. Well, you know, and it's like people who consider themselves. Jews, but only in a cultural sense, not in a religious sense. Right.  Sure. Yeah, I know it's the same thing all around. You know, most people are, well, especially in the Bible, right? Because there's ways to read the Bible. Like, for instance, an eye for an eye. You know, when, when they want to exact revenge, it's an eye for an eye because the Bible says so. And if they want to show compassion, they say turn the other cheek. So, you know, depending on the, it's a situational, you know, a situational thing where they can just, you know, take on the parts of the Bible that suit the situation as opposed to being consistent. And in that way, they are consistent to their Bible. Right. Right. It's like it, it almost, it gives them a pass for their own accuracy, right? Yeah. You can pick anything out of the Bible to support your current mind. Yeah. Right. Sort of acts like a Rorschach test. There's actually a really funny skit that I wanted to share with you guys called Bible man. And if you weren't familiar with it, it's a guy, there used to be a show called Bible man that was like on a Christian television public broadcast station. Sort of public, but it was actually, you know, for profitly funded Christian propaganda on television, basically. And it was a guy who would dress up in a superhero costume, go to places where there are criminals doing bad things and then preach at them in his, in his costume and the, and the people would stop doing bad things. So like robbers would try to rob a bank.   I should stop doing this. And they put their guns away and to become teachers and wrestlers for local coaches for schools and stuff like that. And you'd be like, Oh, okay. Good job Bible man. But the skit that I saw this time was a parody of that because it was basically a guy's robbing a bank Bible man kicks down the door and the robbers like it's Bible man and Bible man just start shooting them.  And like Bible man's like. Relations for 16. I can do whatever I want to do. And it's like, he's quoting like actual things from the Bible, but he's just like, I get to do this now. And I'm just like, Whoa, this guy's kind of mental. He's doing whatever he wants because he's just pulling verse from the Bible to justify any action that he wants. And I thought it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was so it was so great. But yeah. Wizards with hats is the guy who made the, that's that camp comedy skit. Larry would love to get some feedback on you. Is there anything that you've noticed as an atheist where Christians aren't following the rules that they're supposed to or any other religious groups. I love that neighbor.  But this Christian right movement nowadays that. Dominionism where they're taking over the country. Love is the last thing on their mind. Right. It's all about control and. And religion. Right. Religious control of the. Instruments of power of the government. Right. Right. And it doesn't benefit people as like love would. Sure. And you know, on a more superficial level, like, I've definitely seen a lot of Christians who enjoy wearing fabrics of mixed, mixed cloths. So, like, yes, or cotton blends shellfish, wearing color purples, like there's a lot of weird commandments in the Bible, not just the main 10, but obviously hundreds and hundreds that people don't realize that they're breaking if they're, if they're a Christian that they're breaking every day. 613 commandments. And like Deuteronomy and Leviticus alone. Right. And not only that, but like I have a friend who does is a Seventh Day Adventist and does not work on. What is it? Saturday. That's his religious day. But the thing is. I will. So like, I will say, hey, you want to play disc golf on Saturday. It's like, I can't, I prefer to just rest on Saturday. It's like, that's totally fine because I respect your religious beliefs. I'll go have, you know, I'll go play with some other friends. But thank you very much. And if you're free on Sunday, let's hang out on Sunday. And then Saturday, he'll come back and or he'll send me pictures of things that he did on Saturday, where he's hanging out with friends, making like, what's up, Dred? Well, I was just going to say it. You said that you respect his religious beliefs. Right. Do you respect his right to believe what he wishes? Or do you respect those beliefs? I would just saying, I guess, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a euphemistic statement of. I'm not going to tear you apart. Even though you know that I believe a different thing. That's it. It's a, it's a euphemistic statement. That's it. I want to read the exact verbatim of it. But this is a, I think a point that many. People of religious faith. Take issue with is that they think you should respect their beliefs. They're right to believe and that's the distinction. Some beliefs are just silly. I tend to point out with people is I won't have to respect it. Actually that recent video I made. About ad hominem versus challenging beliefs. It's, it's an important distinction to make. I think that.  To my own death. But I will not say that I have to respect their beliefs. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I at least even in this context, I didn't find the belief particularly harmful to take a day off. On a religious context. So I guess in, in some literal aspect, I do respect the idea of taking a day off. So like, if that was also. Adopted by a religious. Ideal. It's still, it's still an idea that I respect taking like a day off to just like reprieve because he has a lot of, he does like a really monotonous task at our job. And it's good for him to take a break. But the main thing was he didn't want to play disc golf on Saturday because it's part of his like, I can't work on Saturday, but yet he will still drive to a place by model paint things for figurines for like this. Table top, like war thing. And he'll like paint soldiers that have like skulls and angels and demons on them and like throw dirt on them. And like these like giant monsters, he'll like portray that are from a demonic dimension. Warhammer is what it's called. And he's like, in my head, it's like we could have thrown this and that would have been at least more acceptable in like. The religious context compared to like, oh, I got to go paint demons instead. I got to make them look as realistic as possible and have them chewing apart human soldiers with blood coming down their face and stuff like that. I'm like, it's not technically working tie.  But like, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that either. I just have an issue with the consistency or the, the adherence to a tenant that you, you, you claim to believe in that's controlling your life. And yet how you actually operate in society and, and why these two things are desperately apart from each other. Yeah. And it's interesting also tie that people will select the things that they'll abide by, right? That are most comfortable today. It won't work on Saturday, but they'll eat the cheeseburger. You know what I mean? Or the bacon cheeseburger, you know, right? You know, it's being very selective about what it is that appeals to you to do without, like you say, without any kind of consistencies. Right. I feel also like it's the thing that doesn't bother me is, isn't so much the hypocrisy. I kind of feel like that's inherent to human nature. There's a times where I've been, I feel like a hypocrite. It just, it bothers me when it is. Both my bane as an atheist to be pigeonholed as like this outlier of a well-meaning society, but also the person who's in the best advantageous position to objectively see when people are going outside of their script. And why isn't our perspective on that? The one that Christians go to first to figure out if they're actually being adherent to their beliefs. Like if you're a Christian and you want to know if you're being a good Christian, talk to an atheist because they'll tell you, they'll most likely know the rules better. They'll have read the book in a more objective state and they can say the rules that you're breaking or not breaking.  You just got to pray. You got to do this and give me 10% of your paycheck. If you talk to an atheist, they'll be like, well, if you really care, here are the rules that you're breaking. Bam, bam, bam, bam. They'll be like, oh, I got a lot of extra work to do. It's like, yeah. And you want to, you want to have a conversation about why you believe that because I'd be happy to have that with you too. That's just my voice. Well, most atheists have gone through religion, know all about it, come out the other side with a lot of knowledge about the religion. Now, some of, some atheists, very few atheists were born into a secular home and never learned about religion, except what they wanted to study just to be aware. But so many of us have gone through and got the T-shirt been there, done that. And there's also the idea of like even just being friends with an atheist, couldn't that be against a religious code? Now that's something I'd like to think about. So if you're a Christian and you have an atheist friend, isn't that inherently or a post-sopharian friend or a friend that's just a heathen, someone who does not believe in your one true God? Can you truly be friends with that person in terms of what you're allowed to do in the context of your religion? Dredd, are you familiar with any stances like that in Christianity or even post-sopharianism? Well, there's no problem in post-sopharianism being friendly to anybody of any kind of faith whatsoever. Of course, as long as they're open to eating pasta, then we get along famously. I don't know if you're there. Okay, good. But I do know, I do feel like at least it's practice that there's otherism, tribalism and issues with Christians being friends with our elites, very close friends with people.  So, you know, yeah. Yeah, what's funny is I just typed in Google, I said, can a Christian be friends with an atheist? You got two totally separate answers. One of them says, no, Christians should never be friends with non-believer. After all, Jesus was only friends with good religious people. And I think it was kind of a smart, alecky answer on that one. But then it says, my friend says she doesn't believe in God. Can I share the gospel with her? Which is a totally different thing. It's a different thing. Yeah, right. Because you want to hang out with them to proselytize to them. Right. So it's for your religion, not for them or for you. Right. You want to hang out with people who couldn't turn into Christians so you can get extra Jesus points. But the thing is, would you be willing to just accept the fact that you have a friend that doesn't believe in God and still be friends with them? I feel like that even affluences marriages as well. Like I've had, and we could talk about this in the second half of the show.  I certainly know that there are relationships that I'm aware of that tried to do that. But there's also a lot of influence within a religion to marry within the same religion. And so Muslims tend to only marry other Muslims. Christians tend to marry people who they establish as other Christians. And I find like, you never see a lot of mixed between the two. Even like Jewish, even Jewish Christian, it's like there's not as much mixture. And I'm wondering, is there explicitly any sort of religious basis on that? And for the people who... Oh yeah, Christianity says, thou shalt not be unevenly yoked. In other words, if you're... Yeah, don't yoke yourself to somebody who doesn't have a Christian belief is what they're saying. Wow, okay. They're talking about marriage. Yeah, so it's a shame because there's a lot of benefits that come from having a multicultural background. And for the people who are mixed in their beliefs and do start a relationship, whether it's best friends all the way to marriage, I find like a lot of people get a benefit out of that, even if the religion explicitly says not to. Or that's a bad thing. I feel like from an atheist point of view, I don't have a problem with it. That's just more communication that needs to happen. Dred, any final thoughts before? No. Larry. Yeah. Go ahead and take a break. This is the digital free thought radio hour on WOZO radio, 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. I'm doubter five and we're on WOZO radio, 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Let's take just a moment to talk about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in our 21st year now and have over 1,000 members. We have weekly in-person meetings every Tuesday evening at Knoxville's Old City at Barley's Taproom in Pizzeria. Look for us at the high top tables or if it's pretty weather outside on the deck. We also have a Tuesday evening, first Tuesday of each month, ask Zoom meeting. If you don't live in Knoxville, you can join us there. If you'd like to join us, email us for details. Ask an atheist at KnoxvilleAtheist.org, or let's chat SE at gmail.com. You can find us online on Facebook. Go to meetup.com and look for Knoxville Atheist or go to our website, KnoxvilleAtheist.org. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville, you should still go to meet up and do a search for an atheist group in your town. Don't find one. That's right. One back where you want to pick up? Random aside, culturally, we can be born into an environment where there's just social things that we accept to be true. We don't really think about them a lot. It can come from what language we speak.  Likewise, it shouldn't be a big surprise that you like the music that is particularly in your geographically locked location. If you're in Tennessee, you might have a nice appetite for country music. It shouldn't be a surprise if your parents are both Christian or Muslim, that you are at least exposed to that as well. The shocking thing is how many times do we get an opportunity to examine the beliefs that we have from an objective point of view and understand not within the context of how we were raised or the culture that we were in, how we were indoctrinated into particular belief sets. What I find is the benefit to know that is when you get that multicultural experience. I talked before in the first half that multiculturalism is really useful. If you have a parent that's Muslim and another one that's a Christian, you as a kid have a really interesting opportunity to actually see these two completely different belief sets and be like, huh? How does this actually mix? Can they both be true? What's going on here? Why aren't you guys angry at each other? Oh, you guys both love each other? Okay, well, then why... This doesn't have to be a contentious issue. Different people can believe different things and they can still like each other as people. That's a very good, healthy mindset to have and maybe influence what they actually believe is true too. And I recently always thought that, for example, myself, that you had to drink milk as one of the basic food groups. It was like a dairy section in the food pyramid to have milk. It wasn't until I took biochemistry in graduate school that I realized adult humans are not supposed to drink the milk of cows right into their adulthood. That was just a lobby by the dairy industry to make sure people are supposed to drink it. And things like lactose, the sugar that's in milk, when you're lactose intolerant, you're normal. That's normal. You shouldn't be eating lactose and it's not a disease.  And that blew my mind. And I thought, wow, just because I lived in America where milk is a very prominent resource and a good commodity for selling that I realized how ingrained my understanding of my reality was based on my upbringing. And if it could affect me on milk, imagine how much it could affect me on just how I treat other people, how I think about other things and the religions that I am exposed to.  I'm glad it's being publicized.  It's a thing. Deal with it so that people can have exposure to that culture because otherwise, you're going to have the exact same thing happening to you from these boards that have no authority over you to the layman conversations. And likewise, Lair, you're doing a great job letting people know you're an atheist. I do do a lot of trolling on Facebook. I do not troll. I don't troll. What means can I make today? I've seen the stuff you post, but it's good that there's like all these different approaches to letting people know that there's different cultures out there. I just represent it. I just represent Lair Rhodes. Quotation. All right. So the thing that I wanted to bring up was last week, I brought up a friend of mine who said he recently came out as agnostic and atheist to his wife. His wife did the same thing too. And they both sort of knew where they both were, but didn't want to make it explicitly clear. And when he confessed, she did too. And now for the first time, they're both on this new level of honesty where they both know they don't believe in a God. They haven't told their kids yet even. And they're just realizing, wow, what is this new world that we're in? Let me reach out to my one atheist friend. Who who helped me or helped me understand what I needed to do on my own to get out of my own dogma. And he reached out to me. We played some disc golf. We talked again this weekend. He was the friend who helped me get the ladder, by the way. The the idea that we talked about in the car was personal responsibility. And one of the things he was greatly overwhelmed with is, you know, ever since I said I was agnostic or atheist or whatever, he's still getting used to the terms. I realized like my work started getting a lot harder. Like I'm getting a lot more responsibilities. My my relationships with my my wife are on a completely different dynamic. And just things in my life just seem more, more higher stakes because I used to be able to pray and believe in that guy over to Jesus. Right. And now I'm realizing that like everything's on me and it's filling me up with a lot of uncertainty. And so I said to that, well, I had two concerns. I was worried that those uncertainties and and and fears and responsibility and that weight would make him go back into religion. But he's like, I'm at the point where I couldn't be reconvinced that God exists again. So like that is a bad state to be in when you're an atheist because you it's like you let go of the safety line because you know there's nothing at the other end of the safety line. But you also don't have the fulfillment of comfort that you get from religion either. Isn't that a terrible position to be in when you realize, yeah, it is all on you. And you never really had a chance to exercise that muscle of dealing with that personal weight and you don't have anything else because I don't have an answer for you. It's just an uncertainty that you're going to have to deal with. But it always was. He just he needs to realize it always was on him. He just never thought of it never took time to evaluate that. Good point, Larry. Yeah, it's not like you got a new load. It was always there. You're just looking at it now. Right. Or you just passing on the responsibility of it just letting things happen, but allowing some supernatural friend to theoretically take care of it. Sure. It's like I wrote an article about Jesus takes the wheel, you know, how that's a really bad philosophy because what you're really doing is is ignoring your responsibility and kicking the can down the road and letting just nature take its course because you don't know what it's going to do, but you're accepting no responsibility for it. Right, right, right, right. And I can say this to it's very similar to like he's pulling a load. He's pulling a load of responsibilities behind him. And instead of him giving credit for the load that he's dragging forward. He's saying, well, God's pulling this for me. It's like you're clearly doing it. And then when we realized that there wasn't a God doing that for him. And it's just him. Like, whoa, look at all this stuff behind me. It's like, yeah, but you've been pulling it the whole time. That's right. So like, think about how old you are. Think about all the things you accomplished. You did all of that. You did all of that. You're responsible for all that. So it's not like you'd never had the strength to do it. You're just aware that you're doing it now. And while it's scary to have this as a lucid moment, it's a strength that you've always had. And you can continue to do it. You continue to pile more stuff on it. And so what do you think, Dred? I was going to say, it reminds me of that footprints. Let me, where, you know, there's two sets of footprints in the sand and then it goes to one. And the guy says, wow, God, why did you leave me? He says, I didn't leave you. That was when I was carrying you. And that's that. That does seem to reflect the mentality that you're talking about here. But the opposite, right? Cause it's not. Totally. Yeah, exactly. It's a bit of a delusion, right? Right, right, right.  Right. And then in the absence of that, you feel that the burden is heavier while it's not. It's always been you. You know, while there is that footsteps in the ocean analogy, there's also like every sports movie of the nineties analogy where it's like the coach comes in, there's a kid, there's a team that's just not doing well. He's like, listen, guys, I found a magical orange. And all you have to do is touch this orange and you'll get all the slam dunks. You'll get all the touchdowns and the kids all touched it. It was like Trevor, I believe in you. You just got to work harder on your homework and touch this orange and Trevor does hard on his homework and he touches the orange and he makes a slam dunk. He's like, Billy, you just need to confess to that girl and say you love her and touch this orange and you'll get the touchdown. He's like, he asked Jennifer out on a date and she says yes. And he touches the orange and he makes a touchdown. He's just like, the whole team's like, great. And then next, you know, one day the coach drops the orange and he steps on it and it smashes on the floor. And they're like, no, the magical orange. And the coach is like, it wasn't the orange kids. It was you the whole time. And the kids are like, oh, and then they win the game. It's the exact same thing. It's like every, like leaving behind your Christianity is a lot like realizing that, that magical rabbit's foot. Or that lucky charm. Or that magical rock that you had, or even that magical orange never, never had an influence in your life. And that all the things that you're doing was because of you taking accountability, responsibility and action on your life. That's, that is a good thing, but it's also a disconcerting thing. And here's my, here's my question to you both. Christianity provides a lot of comfort because you don't have to think about all the responsibility that you have. Atheism has none of that. It's literally just one position on one question. What can we do as atheists to help people who are coming out of their religious mindset and leave me behind all that comfort? What can we do to help them be more comfortable? Or let them understand what the nature of uncertainty actually is. Dred, I'll throw it up to you first. What do you think?  That was a little bit of lag. Do you want to go ahead? Go ahead, Larry. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to recommend that they, that there are some awfully good, fine people at recovery from religion.org. Very nice. Who, who are answering these questions every day and that they, they might start going, start there by going to recover from religion.org. But the other thing is just realize that. Like you were saying, it's, it's all on you anyway. I mean, it's always been, there is no magical answer and where you have, where you got to at this point is because of what you have done. No, what your invisible friend has done, no matter what you might think. Part of this. Dred. I was just going to say, I've got this guy trolling my channel now. By the name of Wesley Curry, the second. You didn't have to give him credit, but okay. He's, oh, no, I just wanted to point it out just to make sure that he got named. His, his thing is Jesus is, Jesus is going to read existence of your type persons. So I said, awesome, thanks for playing. Oh my goodness. Yeah, first prove that he's real, then we can talk about what he's going to do. Right. There's an order of operations before any. So why do we say that? Because if someone says, well, let's talk about how God made the universe. It's like first prove that a God exists. Then we can talk about it because you don't get a special seat at the table because the guy who's saying it's pixie magic and pixie magic made the universe. He doesn't get a seat at the table and the guy who's saying, my lucky horseshoe created the universe. He doesn't get a seat at the table because they haven't proved that there's magic or pixies yet. Right. So therefore the guy who's saying God did it has a burden of evidence to prove before he can sit down at the table. What meanwhile we can prove science exists. That's the whole concept of science. It's like demonstrating that these things happen. So we can model it. We can demonstrate that it's testable and now you get a seat at the table and we can talk about it. There are other seats, but until they prove their case, they can't come at the table. That's basically my idea. Dred, what do you think? I was going to say, I've been one of the podcasts I listened to is Sean and Carol. He's a physicist and philosopher at Johns Hopkins University. And he had this great YouTube show that he talks about whether God is a good explanation for the universe. Okay. He showed a picture of the Hubble deep field where you see, you know, thousands and thousands of galaxies. And he said that is one good reason why God is not a good explanation because if God created the universe, why waste all that space? Just just for us. You know what I mean? It was a great point that he made. For that one cool picture. Or you ever, here's why. Here's a Christian mindset.    It's like, you're not getting that toy. None of these other kids are asking for toys. Do you see all these other kids perfectly behaved? And so like when God made this university is like, why are you guys messing up all these things? Why do you have all this sin? Look at all these other universes. There's no sin out there. Why can't you be like your, your older brothers and younger brothers out there? Like they're doing a good job. Why do you have so many problems here at one planet? Get your stuff together. He's just showing us good examples. That's all. That's what the whole deep field is all about. Okay. Anyway, I did get a really good feedback from my friend though. He said he's reaching out instead of to prayer and his pastors, he's going to actually go to a marriage counselor to help with his new dynamic with his wife. Because I told him, Hey, it's actually a good thing that you're getting that help because you have people invested in helping you and you're reaching out to them rather than like the spiritual aids that you were relying on. But also you and your wife have a new level of honesty that you've never dealt with before because you're dealing with so much misinformation beforehand. And now you guys really get a chance to understand each other on this, on this new non spiritual level. And that is, that could be a really good thing. And you guys both seem like you're working towards it. He's like, yeah, we're not, we're not arguing with just, it's weird talking and knowing what we can, how to engage with each other on this new level. And so it's be good to have like a third party in there. Larry, you did make a mention though that you want to make sure that the counselor was not religious. And I think that's a, that's a fair point.  The Bible. Yeah, yeah, what's funny is when my first marriage ended, I felt like I needed some counseling. And my wife recommended a counselor. Now this was the girl who made me an atheist in college. She later, she later slid back into religion and she sent me to a Christian counselor and I'll, and that did not work more for more than like 10 minutes. Right. And so I quit that. And then I got a good secular counselor and it helped a lot. I recommend it. Good. Good. Yeah. So yeah, there's good. I was going to point out that, you know, along with your friend, my wife and I are of different faiths as well. She, she's a Mennonite. That's how she was raised. She, not a strong, like she doesn't go to church or anything like that, but she does believe that, you know, her parents are in heaven and that when she dies, she'll go to that place with them. But yeah, we managed to make it work so far. You know, it's been. For me, I've, I've been a pass very for about, you know, seven years now, I guess. And I think it's getting easier for her. You know, when I go to have past acts, which is our monthly, the past of fees.  Because she doesn't buy into it at all.  And actually she was on this. She went to San Diego on a cruise or turnaround cruise. And she actually brought me back a pirate hat. Nice. I thought, well, that's, that's actually pretty amazing. So there you go. There's two people of different faiths that get along. So I have a question for you. How long were you guys married? We have been together for 20, 23 years now, I think. Okay. Okay. So you guys. All right. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. Were you a man and I was still together? Were you a man and I, when you guys met? No, no, no. I was, uh, Like I was a bit of a waffling Christian, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Becoming a non Christian took several years. Like, you know, like many people, the more I read, the more I just couldn't. The more you examined your beliefs. Hey, the more I examined the beliefs, the more I could reconcile them with reality. So. Sure. And there's a, in my head, there's a. So strong atheism has a weird connotation in that. It's typically given to people who are agnostically atheist, which in my head is an untenable position. Uh, it takes an extra step further. But in my head, strong atheism is typically people who are atheists for, and this isn't the general content, uh, a consensus of what this word is, but strong atheism is people who have done enough work to understand that it is about a standard of evidence and have such a good founding of why they're an atheist, that they don't necessarily waffle in position, get their open-minded and they understand the terminologies. They understand the, the idea that it is purely just a, you haven't met the standard of evidence for the claim that you've made. And as soon as you do, I'll believe it, but until then you don't. And I can't, it's not my job to try to figure out what that, uh, the standard of evidence is for an unpowerful God. That should be something that that guy is capable of, but it's also not my prerogative to tell that guy what to do. And it's up to that guy to decide whether or not, if they, if it's in their power to convince me or not otherwise, other than that, I'm happy being a good person. I'm going to figure that on my own. Like I kind of consider that as like a really strong atheist position to the point where I don't have to worry about checking in with them. A week from now or a month from now and being like, Hey, are you still an atheist? Like no, I'm a Baptist now. I tried it out. And I was like, I was an atheist because I liked the letter A and I wanted to get the shirt, but then I decided I didn't like black that much. So I was like, ah, screw this. I didn't want to pay the fees or the dues. Like what fees are dues? It was a free. Yeah, exactly. I didn't like feeling uncomfortable. Yeah. I remember you had some comments or questions by somebody that said or was it a guest that we had? Yeah. Who said he was an atheist and then became a Christian. Correct. I was like, well, you couldn't, you couldn't have become an atheist and then converted back to Christianity because that the atheism couldn't have been genuine because there's no evidence to support Christianity. So, you know, an atheist doesn't have sufficient evidence to believe in a God. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. I believe that you could believe something like a God and that makes you not an atheist or like a believer, a theist, right? And then for whatever reason, you can have a moment of clarity where you understand you don't have a good basis for your belief and you become an atheist because you don't believe in that God or any God claim anymore. And then for whatever reason, you don't like the feel on the other side of that fence. And so you begin to drop your standard of evidence so that you can get rid of all this uncertainty and fall back into a belief system. And when you drop your evidence standard of evidence low enough to the point where it's not as meaningful, you can, you can easily believe in a God again. And once you believe in that God again, guess what? You're no longer an atheist. So like I understand the transition. What do you think Larry? Well, yeah, a lot of people. A lot of Christians will say that I've never been a Christian because I wasn't a real Christian. If I could ever give up my belief in God. And it's does this is the other side of the fence. When actually what you can do is you can be a Christian, then you can be an atheist. But then you may have come up with a further newer definition of God that you can live with and that you think might actually exist. You can come back into a belief of a different kind of God or a different level of God or a God that has a different job as it were. So beliefs change all the time.  I will always ask them what changed your mind to go back. I will always ask them that. And then I will, if I can point out the flaws of that kind of thinking. Right. And for me, it's, it's that plus. Okay. I'm fine with you being a Christian. Are you still asking questions? And if they're not asking questions, that's the problem. And so it speaks to a degree of closed mindedness that I've always worried about when you fall into a big religion, because I'm an atheist. I still ask questions about atheism. I'm still willing to dismiss atheism and leave it on the side of a curve. If I had a better option and I'm constantly thinking about processes and complaining about science. Man, let me tell you something. I got. Fish oil right here in my hand. I, I've gone through like this four day. Tyrate in my mind on like, what's the scientific benefits of fish oil? It doesn't seem like it has anything of value in it. And I'm reading up stuff, just scientific claims. And clearly there's like good stuff in fish oil, but not all fish oil has that good stuff. And there's like lipids that are absolutely useful. But if they're not at a high enough concentration in fish oil, then you shouldn't be taking that fish oil. So it's not so much the fish oil that's important. It's these two, uh, uh, long chain lipids that are useful that your body needs and needs to get from its diet. But you can get them from walnuts, flax seeds. You can get them from eating actual fish. You don't need the fish oil, but this does provide a convenient way to eat it. And so you really have to just make sure that there's no mercury and then it has those two ingredients. And I'm reading these things like, well, then how they do their mercury testing then, like I'm constantly thinking about science all the time. I think it's good. But when you're Christian, you're like, well, the Bible said this and that's all that. That's, that's it. My pastor said that and that's it. I'm just like, why aren't you asking questions? You have this. It's your body, it's your chance. Go for it. And what gets me? Is there anything good in snake oil? Do they have good lipids? Maybe, maybe there's some good omega-3s in there somewhere. Yeah, but no, they'll always come back.  They never come back to just deism. They always come back to like Christianity or, or Mormonism or whatever. And I always ask, I can understand how you could maybe go to deism since we don't have an answer to what created the universe. You know, what fine-tuned the universe and all the first cause and all that stuff. But how do they make the leap from a deistic God to a whole religion when there's nothing more to support it than an old book and there are thousands of old books. Old holy books in the world. I choose that one. I guess that's what I was trying to get at is that, you know, a Christian who is maybe having a crisis of faith. Doesn't become an atheist. It's a Christian having a crisis of faith. And that, you know, when they go back to it, it's just reinvigorated by the same, because there's no additional evidence to add to it. I guess that's kind of what I was, what I was getting at was. Yeah, a Christian with a crisis of faith. You know, for someone to call themselves an atheist is again, in some cases, they're just having a crisis of faith, whether it lasts a week or a year or two years, whatever. And that uncomfortable feeling might, might get them, or get them to accept the new claim against, you know, for the, for the Christianity or the religion that they hadn't considered before and let them fall back into it. Let's talk about that uncomfortable feeling, because I remember the, I consider it a parable, but it is just a story, a fairy tale of the emperor's new clothes, where there's an emperor who doesn't wear, he got convinced by a couple of snake oil salesmen that there's this invisible thread and they made an entire wardrobe out of it and sold it to this king. He wears it out in public and he's essentially naked. He feels a draft and he's like, oh, but that's just the quality of this fiber. In my mind, that is the, that, that degree of uncertainty, the idea of like, hey, there's this nagging sensation that I might be wrong about stuff or I might need to be doubtful of things and it's up to you to recognize it or not. And you can ignore it and say, no, I'm covered in clothes. This is good. I have all the confidence in the world. I'm a hundred percent certain that I am wearing clothes in public right now or you could recognize what that draft is and be like, oh, maybe I'm not wearing clothes. Maybe how I treat people isn't good to resolve itself by just praying in my own quarters. Maybe I should go out and if I injure or harm someone or say something particularly offensive to someone I care about and I was being unreasonable, I can make amends personably with that personally with that person and not in my, in my own private space with my own relationship with my personal God. I feel like the that degree of uncertainty is sort of like a spark of empathy and if anything quality ignorance that lets you know that you could get on the path to learning about stuff in a meaningful way. Dred, you love reading about physics and understanding like latest scientific articles. You have to do that from a position of I don't understand or I don't know where I don't understand the conclusions yet until I read about them and then understand the conclusions that are being made. You don't go in with the impression of I know this field of science and I'm just here to verify my own conclusions. Like you have to understand that there's a point of ignorance you have to enter into a lot of different complex ideas. What do you think Larry? Oh, you're on mute my buddy. I need you to go back to that phrase that I'd never heard two words put together before like that quality ignorance. Yes. What do you mean by that? So the idea of quality ignorance is a man. You asked me this with four minutes left in the show. We could have made a whole show. How about that? We'll save it for next week. Sounds good. All right. I guess we should start closing out. Yeah. Dred, is there anything you'd like to plug? Oh, yeah. Sure. Sure. My channel is a mine pirate on YouTube and. I N D P Y R A T E. Nice. I've actually been getting, you know. Some more joiners on like. More people on my channel. So I appreciate everyone that joins. Even the nut jobs like Wesley Curry. Wow. And thanks. That is trading room for inspiring me to give them a time out. Nice. You're always. I do. I live stream this show at 7 a.m. Sunday mornings. When I'm able. Nice. And thank you for all our ardent commenters. We'll go over your comments in the next week episode too. We'll do quality ignorance in next week's show. You can also find our shows on let's chat. This or let's chat SC. G at Gmail is my contact. If you want to send me long form comments, we appreciate those as well, but also at the YouTube channel, which is just at less chat. Larry, all you. Sorry for the noise. There's a truck outside idling or something. But anyway, my contact can be found at digital free thought. Be sure to click on the blog button for our radio show archives. Atheist songs and many articles on the subject. You can find my book atheism. What's it all about on Amazon. And my YouTube channel is handle is at doubt or five. Remember everybody's going to somebody else's hell. The time to worry about is when they prove that heavens and hell's and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. I'll see you next Wednesday night at seven o'clock on W O Z O radio. Say bye everybody. Bye everybody. Bye. There was. We're good. I just looked up quality ignorance and it's, it looks pretty interesting. It's really, really cool. I'll check it out. I wanted to throw out one other random thing.  I think it was really cool. It was a lot of fun for the kids. And I was like super awesome. Obviously there was a lot of blowback on that from Christian groups. However, there are, there. In the context of the show, there was, um, Multiple examples that were cited where gay men have kissed each other. And you had mentioned men and nights, dread. Uh, one of these were called the holy kiss. Are you familiar with that concept? No. Uh, it's when it's a, it's a sign of peace where, where two people of the same gender will kiss each other on the lips. It's been painted, it's been cited. There are multiple citations of it happening in the Bible, Romans 16, 16, Corinthians, the Lossians, 1 Peter, where God is explicitly saying, hey, greet one another with a holy kiss, greet one another with a kiss of love, greet all brothers with a holy kiss, where people are kissing each other. So it just hasn't been popularized to the point where we hadn't known that that was a thing that already happens already. So I thought it's a bit of a stretch, but it was also one of the similar situations where Christians will get upset about things that are in their own holy book.  What's your problem with kissing? Like, they're already doing it. Oh yeah, it's true. Anyway. Good point. I guess you guys probably seen the Anhauser Bush blowback. Some people are getting all upset about some people. Oh yeah. I went to a restaurant, I guess it was like three, four days ago, and I ordered Bud Light. Oh, we don't serve that here. I said, you don't, why not? And they said, I don't know. I could ask the manager, and I said, no, don't bother. And next thing you know, the manager is standing at my table. I said, why aren't you serving Bud Light? We just made the decision not to. So Sheila and I got up and left. That's how far it's gone. Right. It's just, it is, it's really crazy, isn't it?  Yeah. Loving your neighbor, right? Like that whole device of nature, right? All right. The things we do for Jesus points. Thank you guys so much. Hopefully see you next time. Okay, thank you guys. Appreciate you. Are you gonna be on the other show? I might be able to go on there. I might go and do an SC session with that friend of mine who is talking about marriage counseling. And so it won't be recorded. It'll just be us meeting at a park and just hashing out some stuff that he's going through. Yeah. Good luck. Thanks. I was gonna say before you go, if I was thinking about doing, putting together an SC thing with people like Francis Crick, scientists, right, who are believers to get, to have a SC sessions with some more well-known ones, right? To get a sense of what it is that how they can parse the scientific method and a belief in usually a Christian God. They functionally can't. They can't. Like it's not a compatible mindset. No, I know, but it'd be nice to do an SC session to see you. No, I agree. I'd be interested in watching that. Yeah. My only concern would be is there would be an inherent blowback as the guys who are well-known scientists tend to have some ego with them for them to publicly announce that they're also a believer and not admit that they're wrong about that would only further reinforce people who are believers to by association look at, you know, scientists that are in well-known circles continue to stay adamant and not admit that they're wrong about something. And even if they get caught, they're just gonna play some sort of weird obfuscation. I just chose to get to the end of the show. And that's gonna be enough for believers to understand. And I don't know if it's gonna move the conversation any forward. Like any other debate. I understand the spirit of it. I just wonder like would a presentation on their belief work better than having them? Well, what you would do is you would just clear it with them first, tell them what you're going for. Tell them that you're gonna ask them all these questions about that.  You don't have to like surprise them with it. Sure. And I'd even started off with a, hey, here are my concerns before we even begin. This is what I expect to happen. I expect, I don't expect you to change your mind at the end of this, but I do anticipate that there's gonna be some weird, well, a pathologic I won't be able to follow that leads me to a conclusion that neither of us can substantially reach with a high standard of evidence. Like I anticipate that. I also expect other people to watch that and use that as evidence to further support their claims that they can't substantiate either. And I worry about the relevance of the conversation like this, but here's what I'm genuinely trying to attempt. Yeah. And that's exactly how I go at it is to go in there with a genuine curiosity, right? A genuine interest in learning how people do reconcile beliefs with their scientific vocation. And I am genuinely interested to figure out how it is that people do that. And so that would be the pretense, not as an attempt to shotgun journalist sort of 60 minutes approach, or it's a gotcha moment, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be totally disingenuous. Right. You know, it'd be about doing it properly, like Larry says, you know, just giving them an interaction to what SCE is about and the reasons why you'd want to engage in that kind of conversation, so. Sure. And yeah, I'm not a fan of shotgun journalism, so as long as that's clear. No, neither am I. Okay. Good guys. All right. And we'll see you later. See you. Take care, y'all. Bye-bye.


What's good boys? I hope you are ready for an incredible video Tom Brady the greatest football player of all time 99% retiring and I wanted to give a tribute to his Incredible incredible career by scoring a touchdown with Tom Brady in every single Madden that he has ever been in now The reason I say he's 99% retired is you know drunk retired to drunk retired in 2020 season And then all of a sudden he comes back and wins a Super Bowl I wouldn't be too surprised if you know Madden 24 all of a sudden we got to make this video again because Brady's in it So I am so excited to get this video in the books We're hiking our asses all the way back to the PlayStation 2 to play with Tom Brady It is crazy how long he's been in the league I think I was like two years old when he answered the league literally two years old Yeah, and a beautiful part of this is Brady is gonna be in almost every single Madden Since the PlayStation came out So this is my tribute to Tom Brady's retirement do keep in mind that I'm actually recording this Controversy has not been cleared up yet. Adam Scheffer tweeted out the Tom Brady retired and yet Tom Brady nor his agent have Confirmed that he's retired. So I don't know where she after heard that either way I think it is most likely that he is retiring this year. So we're on the PS2 We are gonna throw a touchdown with Tom Brady in every single Madden since he entered the league This is gonna take a hot 12 hours. So I hope you boys enjoy. I'm excited to do it It's gonna be hysterical to see Tom Brady throughout the years now There is a hilarious fun fact to start this video out Okay, so keep in mind Brady was drafted in the sixth round of the 2000 NFL draft and the numbers for each Madden are a year ahead meaning Madden 2001 actually follows the 2000 NFL season So you think Tom Brady's first man should be man 2001 This is not the case the developers for Madden often times would cut corners and just not code certain players into the Game because they deemed them so irrelevant that why would anybody even care if they're in the game or not? This is what they did with Tom Brady for two straight years I can imagine the developers just sitting in a room. Okay, should we make the face model for this Tom guy? He's the sixth round fourth-string quarterback for the Patriots right now.  He'll never amount to anything We don't need to do that Madden 2003 for the PS2 Technically Tom Brady's first Madden if you would like a fun fact though He was on the GameCube Madden 2002 and he was a 51 overall All right, the most important part the depth chart Tom Brady now that he is officially in the game 84 overall holy shit what a throwback right here even when he was young and they gave him just no speed at all 54 speed 62 strength and in the old Madden's is really funny. There are no like actual throwing stats There's literally one stat and it's throw accuracy encapsulates everything doesn't matter if you're good at short or deep throw accuracy It's at 86 throw power as a zero on kick return. I won't put him at kick return. Don't worry Troy Brown David Patton and Donald Hayes wait a second. So was that not was that not Dion branch?  Well, damn I wish we could actually put him at wide receiver Dion branch ends up being an incredible wide receiver and this is gonna feel so weird for me obviously because I was So young when Brady was actually in the league and I didn't obviously didn't watch the NFL I'm so used to Brady having Gronk, right? But in reality, we're not gonna get Gronk for like 10 years not wild All right, I don't know who Patton is but I'm sending him to the end zone Little play action we're just gonna beam.  We're about to get a random drug test Hey, he's wide open in the back corner You're lying. Can I challenge plays in old men's I can of course doing them challenges a catch. Look at that left.  All right.  What are you doing there, buddy? It's a snag. All right for you.  Oh dude. Oh my god. We all need a royal check None of this is so awesome. Tom Brady just teleported to the end zone. Is that Brady right there?  Was that what that was? This is probably yeah 84 It's probably the last time Brady will ever be sub 90. I'm not even kidding I think you'll be 90 overall or better every single man from here on out Madden 04 This was like the revolutionary Michael Vic Madden. This is one where Michael Vic was just stupid broken But instead of using Michael Vic, we're gonna use the white Michael Vic Tom Brady by initial guess I'm gonna say Brady is up to a 90 one overall. Dem chart top. Oh But that would you do also I gotta say Tom Brady glowed up bro.   It's really weird. It's like being a corner is just useless in these games I feel very confident. He's just gonna catch this. Wow.  Nobody talked to me.  I'm sorry I I literally was shitting in diapers at this time. Okay, so I don't know who the guy is Oh Patton the play-action got him to bite.  I love this little replay I love this little three-banger replay. That's nasty All right, man, oh for in the books 90 overall Brady. So like I said, I don't think I'll be sub 90 at all What do we think he is an 0-5? I think he's gonna jump to a 94 look who's made an appearance The odd branch now and Madden 05 is officially a wide receiver of the squad He's not just a specialist anymore.  I haven't even looked at that chart yet. Oh, we got ground But the odd branch for like a 60 bomb on play one All right, hold up You guys check out this that chart because it's also gonna be nice I'm moving to bed down branches at least a 90 himself We have a super washed old-ass Doug Flutey. I did not realize he's 42 Brady 97 overall. This is crazy. Oh, so Doug Flutey incredible quarterback, right at age 42 He's a 76 and bad. It'll be crazy to see what Brady is when he's 42 Brady's probably still like a 95 So Brady's 28 now. He's got 98 awareness. He's got 62 acceleration.  Absolute burners NASCAR racer 92 throw bar 96 throw accuracy. I love to see it importance. His status called importance I've never heard of this again. It's just another white person stat grit high motor importance blue collar player rating We may never know with the odd branch is getting up. Ah, it's a pass interference balls in the air Is that pass interference? I don't know the real thing on that one. What about for you over the middle? Is he there? Oh look at for you. He's gonna clear for this guy. But he's not in the end zone He's not quite in the end zone, you know in under normal circumstances.  Oh move Dylan. Yes Dylan wide open. He's got it Let's go, you know, he may have 54 speed But he rolled out of this pocket pretty well and Dylan, you know kind of a broken play magician here Brady Madden 05 he's a 97.  Maybe he gets his first 99 now a few moments Later, I made a mistake what you just saw was Madden.    I guess that does kind of explain why his overall jumped a little higher than I thought it should All right, we're slightly out of order here, but this is Brady Madden 05 So to recap in 03. He was an 84 overall in 04. He was a 90 in 05 He's whatever we're about to find out and then 07. He's a 97 and I guessed he would be a 94 here So I'm sticking with that guess Tom. Oh, I'm off by one So Brady is a 95 in 05 and he's a 97 0 6 Troy Brown looks like he wants a deep one Did you just toast him that was a perfect throw on the run from Brady and he sold it He completely sold it. I'll give givens another one for the first. Oh, he's got some room. He's got some room Oh, he wants it. Oh, he wants it Slightly under and I just figured out how showboat you hold down the shoot button in Call of Duty Madden 05 I apologize guys. I goofed up and now we're headed to Madden 07 and I will verify This is the correct one Sean Alexander on the cover Will this be the first 99 overall Tom Brady that we're gonna get come on, Brady. Come on We're one short 98 overall got Matt Castle and Corey Bramble it back in them up 60 speed That's the fastest he's been and throw power through I can see the exact same as the last bad So I guess it was I guess it was his speed that increased the overall by one dude I feel so bad But I'm literally tempted to just bomb it to D on branch again, bro Cuz that's like that's gotta be the move Troy Brown on the post. Oh, might have been in triple coverage actually Oh, but he's taken off broken play broken Caldwell said a young Jim Caldwell. That's a joke. Obviously. Who do we got branch? Are you there? He must have oh he must have before the Patriots even get Randy Moss the odd branch Brady's getting amped mad. No 798 ready. It's gotta be Madden 08. It's gonna be the first 99 Brady I have to believe it for Madden 08.  I'm playing the Berlin Thunder. I don't throw a one-play touchdown I will be mad at myself. We got to see come on, baby first 99 first 99 ready first 99 God he's in 98 still darn it dude. He should have pretty much the exact same stats. Is he any faster? No age 30 60 speed literally just copy paste the last Brady. This is the first real is the first year. We get Randy Moss.  What did I say? I said I got to do a one-play touchdown Just get clamped by Berlin Thunder's really lost just got claimed by Berlin Thunder's five foot six German Warlord corner safety whatever back there. All right. Let's try that again throw on the run Brady laser That's what should have happened the first time. Let's go ready Moss into the end zone the Berlin Thunder made a little too easy for me I'm not gonna lie. All right Tom fraughty I need you to become a 99 overall because I've been praying for it really does feel like over the last like six or seven Men's we played they literally haven't changed to anything. It was like the exact same game you're after years. Okay, Brady I know you just got 99 you had to have go that chart 99 yes, and you know what probably this it's the six additional speed. He got he went from 60 speed to 66 99 overall Brady's 31.   Yes, Randy. He's got him. You just got to catch it I'm on the one again. All right. Hey hell of a completion though I kind of want to hit Watson here in the middle. We'll see if he's there. No, but Washington is no way Oh nine Brady Randy Moss get up. No. Oh my god It's the third time that we have landed on the one. How is this possible? Oh, we got a punch. You said I Just got a beam one up. And that's how we're gonna do it Let's go on fourth down finally do that package defense was a stone wall.  All right, boys Madden oh nine that is our final madden on the ps2 We're headed to the 360 to see how good Brady is as well and then the Xbox one then the series X So this is the only Madden where there are two cover athletes other than Madden 22. So Madden 22 is Brady and Mahomes Let's have some fun. Let's get it and we'll have a little graphics update. So this won't be fun And the depth chart Brady is a 97 overall.  You're never getting a rep in your life No, Chris Hansen like how to catch a predator Chris Hansen. Yeah, I've had to meet that guy a few times and I'm gonna be honest Whoa, whoa. All right boys. I see Wes Welker down a seam. It's second to 21 So we got to pick up some yards.  He's getting evaluated. He's getting evaluated by the team doctors.  Yeah, that's legit. All right, Wes Welker. I see you baby. Good shit Let's hop into man 11 and a moment of true Tom Brady and Madden 11 This is with Drew Brees on the cover. He is now a 95 overall So he's gone down to stats are still nasty 94th row part 93 short 91 mid and 89 deep I'm hoping that that deep accuracy will go up in the future Madden's because I just think it's sure looks like we're in a similar Situations last time boys Wes Welker. I think that's our go-to guy here I do have rainy balls, but I think I got a rifle this is Wes Welker He's wide open Simply too easy man 10 man 11 Brady making it look just so simple All right now the next man that I'm actually really excited to go to is Madden 12 with Peyton Hillis on the cover Let's hop into Madden 12. Let's have some fun Madden 12, baby Let's load this up and I thought that if we're gonna play in Gillette We gotta do at least one snow game So we're taking on the Saints at home heavy snow and look at the presentation It actually looks so sick I'm loving this and the moment of truth Brady overall is maybe Brady up to a 99 58 speed okay, we don't expect any speed even really at any point 95 throw power 98 short 96 mid and 89 deep We got to get that deep up bro. We got a 99 overall gotta have at least like 94 95 deep at some point I'm hoping I know he wasn't like always a deep bomb quarterback. Obviously All right, let's go score time. You know what it's like. Wait a second. Wait a second Why do I get Gronk should I think I should have rookie Gronk at this point, right? Let me check we should have oh, yep. There he is Rob Gronkowski 84 overall who is Is that Aaron Hernandez? Oh my god, it's so weird seeing him. Where's Gordon? I touched on Aaron Hernandez.  Hernandez is out of corner out. We're throwing it up.  Oh, that's so weird. That's so weird I feel like I just like oh feel like I shouldn't have done that I feel like I just like threw off the cosmic balance or something. Oh, that's so weird. I can't wait to do that Okay, we're going to man 13 baby. Let's go. All right Patriots versus Texans What do you got in that chart Brady coming off a 99 overall season? He drops just one to a 98 But let's see the stats because it seems to be just completely arbitrary how they're giving up these overalls 96 97 90 mid. Oh, I'm scared as deep went down It went down by one. I am sad darn it I need to see that deep get into the 90s, but hey, he's still an absolute demon and this might be taboo to look again But it's her name is still on the team or did he only play one year to look at this? Why we're super cool.  All right.   All right, baby Okay, Gronk getting hype. All right. Well, they don't make it much easier than that madden 13. He's in the books Let's go to uh madden 14 the uh technically the 25th anniversary madden Oh Brady down to a 97. I'm acting like 97 is bad. And look at Tim Tebow Tebow I forgot that Tebow was on the page. It's at any point. Ryan mallet, bro. How are you above Tebow the god? Why receiver? We've got Michael Jenkins. Amen to wow.  Respectfully it ends 98 Gronkowski. We got Michael who? And uh, Aaron Hernandez is officially in prison. Gronk is now higher overall than Brady. Wow. Well, let me see Gronk stats Actually the 88 strength 91 truck 90 catching 97 catching traffic. That's the guy you got to go to here Wow, they sent a hot blitz. Who even are you bellard? Oh, are you there? Jekyll Jenkins splits the seam. I don't know. Sean Taylor. Let that go. Hell. Yeah, baby. All right That's it. That's madden 14 in the books Brady has fluctuated through the 360 of being anywhere from a 95 to a 99 overall So he's never lower than a 95.  Now, we're onto the series X. Uh, he probably never drops below 90 I have to assume. So this is madden 15 which followed the 2014 season. I have macrophy Wait, it's Pat McAfee kicking off. Oh, that's awesome. I love that. That's actually hilarious Oh, that's sick. And I got amandola back here, baby. Oh, I don't know what this camera angle is but All right, let's take a peek at this dump chart. He said 99. Wait, what? Oh my god 14 years in the league and he is a 99 overall at age 37 and we have seven more maddens to go Yeah, that's just stupidly ridiculous.   Okay 95 short 97 mid 81 deep 76 on the run. I get that they have a weird calculator to determine it But he only has one stat. That's a 99 and it's awareness. Everything else is sub 99. So I don't know Lafell right in the middle. I literally don't know who that is. We're going to Who do I even throw this dude? Oh Underneath these down to the three. So who might a woman?  Who might a woman?  Can you break a tackle? Uh, he might have there's just too many dudes there first to 10 five wide the goaded play grok in the middle Dude, wait a second. What look, I don't ask questions. That's a touchdown with tom brady and madden 15 Let's go to madden 16. So madden 16 This is the madden as you guys definitely know by now of the aggressive catch I'm pretty sure grok is one of the biggest abusers of this What is jimmy garoppolo? Oh my god.  I'm the biggest jimmy g hater in the world. Bro. This is jimmy garoppolo Oh, and he throws a laser now. I'm extra pissed. Oh, I'm so mad This would be a touchdown for tom brady. That one with jimmy garoppolo Wait a second. What is tom brady's overall? He went from a 99 to an actually a little I feel disrespect for Personally for tom brady. He went from a 99 to a 92 It's ironic too because clearly they dropped his overall because the season prior he didn't play that well And then he goes out to win the super bowl in this season So I guarantee if there's a roster update for madden 16 Obviously, I can't get it because those servers aren't online But if there is a roster update he'd be a 99 So during this year he loses to the broccos in the super bowl at the end of this year But the year prior he won the super bowl got super bowl mvp beat the seahawk So I don't know how he's a 92. Wow. We don't even have to act. Wait, do we?  Let's go, baby grog has like uh 90 yards and a touchdown in this game too. So good for him This was the most historic year. This was the year that they pulled off the 28 to three Oh, it's the super bowl.  I don't even think if I simmed a million madden games I could ever get it to recreate that game if I simmed a million straight falcons versus patriots There would never be a world where the falcons lead 28 to three In the third quarter and the patriots win the game going into the depth chart here top Oh my god, I'm right on the schmoney. They said to be a 96.  Oh my god He versus the guy she tells you not to worry about. Oh my god.  He now has 60 speed He went from 57 to 58 to 60 strength is a little higher.  This tom brady has better stats than the 99 tom brady from two years ago Like literally better stats in every category. I get that they're changing the calculator every time But if to me this time brady should be a 99 Oh, okay edelman edelman. I'm gonna need you to clutch up here, buddy. I'm gonna need a big catch out of you Yep, there's the slams. Yes, sir. Get in the edge. Oh, let's go Edelman touchdown in the super falcons fans. I'm really sorry that you have to go through this again You'll probably never live it down onto madden 18 where brady was the cover athlete You'd have to imagine if you're the cover athlete, you're 99 overall to start the season, right? Madden 18 depth. Wow. He sits still at a 96 and oh my god They can't make up their mind.  Holy shit 17 years in league 62 speed strength is the same 99 awareness still His accuracies 96 99 97 86 I think I went down by one more or less the exact same tom brady of madden 17 Oh, this is when we got brandon cooks This is when the Patriots got brandon cooks and he was crazy good rex burkhead appears to be the starter Although i'm gonna tell coach and that's a questionable decision. I think brandon cooks dude down the middle That's gotta be our best bet.  Let's go Brandon cooks is in single coverage here. Oh, did he get him? I mean he might have torched him What a route it was a skinny post into a corner.   It's crazy. You could go from being on the Patriots You know, I don't know what brady cooks everyone a superbowl with the Patriots But you go from being on the Patriots to now you're on the Texans getting like two wins a season madden 19 This year brady wins another super bowl. This one was depressing to watch.  Brady's in 97 He's gone up one overall his speed has gone up by one. His age has also gone up by one. What a miracle 99 awareness 95 throw power nine short 97 mid 83 deep There are worse stats than last madden, but his overall is better. It makes no sense So the pats now have philip dorset. I think they got him from the colts. He's also a speed demon and we've got a chris hogan I'm sorry chris hogan's actually been a monster this I was gonna throw it to grog but another tutty madden 20 My absolute favorite madden tom brady is stupid busted because he has some of the best abilities in the game in this This was a very uncharacteristic year though for the patriots They actually lost in the first round to the titans The titans then went on to also beat the ravens and then lose to the cancey chiefs Who ended up winning the super bowl against the niners. It was also the introduction of abilities So I have to imagine tom brady's overall. I feel like he'll be a 95 in this.   Where's grog? I feel like I feel like I should have grog somewhere here brady's. Oh Yikes, he took a fall from grace 91 at age 42. I think it's going to go up though I think it's going to go even higher when he gets on the buccaneers So I mean he's got the same damn stats no matter what right? So when his overall finally takes his deep accuracy is the best it's ever been at a 90 I guess I kind of forgot but this must have been when grog retired Oh, it is this is when grog retires And it's not till next year when brady's on the box that he re recruits him out of retirement There's a laser to mohammed sinew Whoa, I didn't expect that at all but we will take it And for the first time in this entire journey madden 21 brady will not be on the patriots This is also the year that I became a kansas city chiefs bandwagon fan So it was pretty depressing to watch tom brady absolutely shit on the chiefs It wasn't even a close super bowl either tom brady on the books versus the kansas city chiefs This will be a good one. We got super sorry. I expect this and I got us He has to be higher than 91 to me. There's no way he's 91 overall here.  Actually, he has hot route master conductor faster hot routing and blocking adjustments increased throw power when leading bullet passes and fearless He's so good. Don't worry. I will check his ratings. I just want to throw a laser real quick drunk run through this man Oh, okay. Um, oh my god. He went to a 96 I'm 91 to a 96. Come on. Keep his deep accuracy good and I will be a happy happy man 91 throw bar 99 short 97 mid at 93 deep. Let's go. He's deep accuracy keeps getting better I love to see that 99 play action.  Come on. Maybe I don't care get it He did but we're not in One more baby. I believe. Oh, there he is right in the scene. Let's go tight window delivered That takes us to the final madden on our journey with the greatest player of all time tom brady To madden 22 where he is actually the second cover athlete technically I do believe he's the only player to be the cover athlete twice Even though I guess you could say he's like the cover athlete one and a half times And in tom brady's final madden and potentially final season keep in mind Yeah, I am recording this during the whole adam shefter potential retiring Controversy thing. I do personally believe that he is retiring. I think he just wants to do it on his own term So I do feel bad. Oh, but in his final season He almost mounted one final insane tom brady come back against the rams in that divisional round But to start madden as a 51 overall don't even get coated into the game They literally think you're so irrelevant that you're not worth coating into the game And to make it this far as one of the greatest players of all time I think tom brady is not only the goat, but he is the goat of any sport I think he's the indisputable greatest athlete of all time the depth chart tom brady ends his fucking career as a 97 overall God, that's so sick 21 years in the league He's 44 and you know what he really did it. He just he almost deserves a 98 or 99 This is one of his best seasons of his career.  He personally asked madden this year He was like, yo, can you bump my speed up because I keep getting all these rushing yards In fairness, he was he was rushing for like 10 yards a game sometimes He was all over at 92 throw power 99 short 96 mid and 95 deep. That's all I've wanted for brady, bro That's all I've wanted. Let's go and he gets 99 play action.  He threw that deep bomb to mike evans. This is assuming he's retiring mike evans wide over wait This could be it Mike evans is gonna go Oh Tom brady, man It is really funny too how much more likable I think the whole world got of tom brady when he went to tampa bay appreciate greatness, baby That concludes scoring a touchdown with tom brady and every single madden we went from. Oh my god madden 2002 to madden 22 tom brady spanned multiple decades the nintendo 64 the playstation 2 The xbox 360 xbox one and I guess you could technically now say the xbox series x because this is an xgen madden Hell of a career tom brady. I hope you guys enjoyed this video. Please let me know any other place You want to see this with I have done this video with idrian peterson ryan fits patrick Big ben roff is burger and tonio brown and now tom brady So anybody else you want to see let me know and I'll see you guys in the next video. Thanks for watching as always peace