Let's start the broadcast and it's the sounds of the opening cans and the closing toilet. It makes me open the, when you go live on the show, it's like a beer opening. That's right, kind of a sound effect. Okay, we're going to start this thing in three, two, this is twist. This week in science episode number 622 recorded on Wednesday, June 7th, 2017, planting a little seed. Hey everyone, I'm Dr. Kiki and tonight on This Week in Science, we are going to fill your heads with some Einstein, old rock, and mucus magic, but first. Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer. There is an enemy of reason that seeks the destruction of us all. Stocks, the most casual of conversations, lurks in the shadows of common misconceptions, gathers around the crowd to influence consensus, permeates the peripheral of popular perception. It is present in the lowest acts of inhumanity and at home in the highest most hallowed halls of government. And this enemy invisible to most has a name. Ignorance. It's not a crime to be ignorant, nor is it a decent defense, but it is understandable why it is such a dominant force in the world and how powerless we may sometimes feel to defeat it. It seems an impossible task when each of us is ignorant of something. As if the alternative must be for everyone to be informed on every subject, to know everything in full expert detail so that we may be sure that reason is thriving in every instance. That we understand correctly the things we casually speak about, but the task is far less daunting than it may at first seem. We don't need each of us to know everything. We only need to learn how much knowledge is required to know the things we do not. By recognizing our own ignorance of a subject, we can be enlightened by those who are not. So, in an effort to become reasonably enlightened despite our own ignorance, we offer you, This Week in Science, coming up next. There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek. I want to know what's happening. What's happening. What's happening. This Week in Science. What's happening. What's happening. What's happening. This Week in Science. Good science to you Kiki and Blair. Good science to you too Justin, Blair and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of This Week in Science.  It's going to be a very fun show today. What did I bring? I brought stories about general relativity and space voids. You know, as one does. We also have an interview with Adrian Godshox about defensive plants. Plants on the defensive. I mean, seriously, why are they so defensive anyway? I don't really understand. Anyway, we'll ask her these questions. Justin, what do you have for us? I've got some early rock paintings. I've got the oldest modern human fossil find found ever. And I'm probably not going to do this one tonight. I'm going to tease it out, but this is going to be an ongoing thing. CAR T cell therapy is doing incredible things right now. Oh, and they found the monkey cat. Monkey cat. Oh my goodness. This is one for the record books going back. Going back for those of you who have been watching twists or listening to twists for basically ever. You'll know what we're talking about. Blair, what is in the animal corner? Oh, I brought some delicious digestive mucus that you were talking about before. And a little information on how we can help out with climate change. Nice. We'd like to do that. I'd like to. All right. And let's see. I'd like to mention also this weekend as Justin alluded to is the young innovators fair in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. We will be at the greater Philadelphia expo center Saturday and Sunday for the young innovators fair. So if you are in the area, please come say hi, catch the show. Maybe tell us about your science.  We have two days to fill with science, which is going to be very, very fun and exciting for all of us. And we will be trying to broadcast live on YouTube and Facebook. We don't know how it's going to work out yet. So we may just be recording it to tape for, for release later. But I hope you keep, keep tuned to the social medias. If you are not in the Philadelphia area, if you would like to check us out this weekend, we're going to see what we can do. We're going to do what we can, you know, as one does. All right. It's time for our new segment in the show. What has science done for me lately? I'd like to read this email for this Facebook message from Minyan Jeremiah Fawse. I am an avid outdoors person and live in eastern Kentucky. Thanks to the biologists, the biologists in Kentucky in my life, I have seen the return of the whitetail deer to Kentucky. Along with turkey, otter, beaver, and elk. Black bear are working their way back. And hopefully grouse and quail will make a comeback soon. Currently, they are battling diligently to stop white nose syndrome from destroying our bats and to stop the emerald ash borer from destroying our trees. I am sure there is much more that I am forgetting. Thank you for your message, Jeremiah. It is always, I mean, those are so important. It's nice to be reminded of the way that biology and ecology and the application of those sciences are helping to re-diversify areas of our country and areas of our world that have maybe lost those species. So thank you so much for that. And anyone? And in that too, there's probably a lot more plant diversity or some changes going on in your forests and everything else. I mean, it's so directly tied. The story of Yellowstone is another great example of this where the plant life in the forests started changing dramatically after reintroduction of species, starting with the wolf, but that has a catalyst for a lot of things that came out. Yeah, many catalysts and many connections. For anyone else who is interested in sending a message and being a part of our segment, I'd like your messages. I like your emails. I like, you know, send me a Facebook message. Send me an email. My email is kirsten at thisweekandscience.com. You can message the This Week in Science page to tell us what you think science has done for you lately. I want to have at least one for every episode moving forward. I want a year of these people. Let's keep reminding ourselves how important science is to our daily lives. Be a part of that. Join in. Come on, tell me your stories. And now it's time for our interview. You've probably noticed if you're watching the video feed that there's a wonderful young woman sitting down next to Blair and she's just been sitting there quietly waiting, biding her time and you're like, who is this person? I didn't know if I was allowed to talk. Well, I'd love to introduce Adrienne Gotschachs to the show. She moved to Portland in high school and studied biology at Western Oregon University. She's currently a PhD candidate in biology, getting ready to defend her dissertation work in plant defenses and biology. And she is a National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellow in the Bellhorn Lab at Portland State University. Adrienne, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me, Kiki. This is such an honor. You're welcome. I mean, we met about a little over a year ago, almost a year and a half ago. And I was really, really taken by the way you described your research when we sat down over a beer. And I was just like, oh, my goodness. This woman knows how to talk about science. I need to get her on the show at some point. And then you put out a message saying, I'm getting ready for defending my thesis. And I was like, oh, let's practice. Exactly. So this is a twist style dissertation grilling. Yay. Bring it on. Adrienne, just to get started, as a biologist, why did you end up studying plants instead of animals? Ooh. Yes. Well, plants are a fascinating thing. Growing up in Moab, Utah, we didn't have many green things around us. And so when I moved out to Oregon, it was a very different world to see moss that could grow on sidewalks, on roofs, on tree branches. It blew my mind a bit. But the real story for why I'm now a scientist studying plants has to do with, in high school, coming from a small town, I wanted an excuse to get outside. And so I volunteered at a program called our Multnomah Education Service District Outdoor School, where I was a student leader and I was teaching sixth graders in the forest. Figured I'd babysat before, so I figured I could handle working with kids. But instead, I accidentally fell in love deeply with education and teaching about the river and about the trees that hold the soil on the riverbank. And from there, in college, I recognized the same lessons and just continued studying. And now I still do. I get paid to study nature and it's incredible. Do you think of yourself, I mean, you're in a biology program, but do you think of yourself more as a biologist or an ecologist? I call myself technically a chemical ecologist. So a little bit of both. And I always joke with a few friends that the list of job names I could have on a business card, I want to get one with a scroll that would have statistician, biologist, ecologist, chemist, entomologist. I just continue accumulating terms that I identify with. But chemical ecology is neat because it is a term and I brought some props for you, just so. We like props. It's always helpful. Plants.  But when this plant is under attack, it can release a suite of compounds into the air, some of which, like this one, which is methyl jasmineate or jasmonic acid, a plant hormone, that when other leaves in the surrounding area get that hormone, those leaves know that there could be an attacker in the area and they kick up, they ramp up their defense level. And so the chemical ecology in that is that the shape of this molecule and the way, the quantity that it's produced in, the ratio of various chemicals to one another can influence whether or not a plant gets pollinated. It can influence whether or not that plant is the most delicious plant on the block and therefore the one that all bugs want to attack. So this molecule, it's released into the air and is this plant communication? Is this the plant telling the other plants, get ready? Something's wrong. Exactly. Yes. And it's not just one chemical. It's a suite of many of them. And all of them have, and in different ratios, they can mean different things. There are a few that we know for sure are plant hormones that have very specific functions that interact with one another. The same way that our hormones work within our bodies as well. That's so fascinating. So in one sense, it's another, you mentioned also whether this will determine whether or not a plant can get pollinated. So this is also interesting because you have insects and animals that can be pollinators, but they also can be attackers. Exactly. Yes. So I spend most of my time thinking about how plants and bugs communicate. And so for my postdoc project too, I'm leaving the plant defense world but not necessarily because for my postdoc, I'm studying a plant pollinator system. But it's still chemical ecology because I'll be studying the quote unquote, we call all kinds of compounds that plants make that are not sugars, the basic photosynthesis product. We call all of those products secondary metabolites, anything beyond their first metabolism or making sugar. So I'll continue studying those secondary metabolites but as the scent of certain flowers. So Kiki, when you think about the smells that are connected to plants, what are some strong smells that you can think of? I love the smell of jasmine. Yes. Because I'm walking past and there's a jasmine bush. So that's actually this. I know. So jasmine is discovered in jasmine, which is incredible. So that smell is also this beautiful smell from the jasmine flower is also can be used defensively. Yes. Not just as an attractant. Exactly. That's fascinating. It can have antimicrobial properties. It can be directly toxic to many things. Yeah, volatile organic compounds as we consider the tiny particles that do all the smell work are. They can have a vast range. And the funny thing about them too is that if you take one of these bonds and twist it, it's going to have a drastically different smell. So some compounds, the cis form is the active form versus the trans when the bond is arranged in a certain way. And so it can be very, very specific. But it can also be very, very broad where the ratio of one compound to 20 other compounds might be the most important thing for a bee to recognize its host or for an ant to be attracted to certain leaves compared to others. So the insect world around plants is like walking through Times Square. There's signs everywhere. There's flashing lights. There's things telling them to go this way, go that way by a ticket to the show. There's like a lot of stuff going on, not just looking around and seeing if a plant looks pretty and maybe that's where I'll go. Yes. It's like if you could advertise via taste buds. Like if we would walk around with our tongues out and receiving those advertisements.     Just lick you. It's not a good habit. No. And I'm apparently the type of insect that does not like Cinnabon. That smell that they have wafting out of there is totally not just to me, but I know it draws a crowd of other human insects. Which is a good point actually, Justin. So if you think about it, we make a lot of our decisions about what we eat or what we don't eat based on what something tastes like, right? So the whole point of trying to understand plant defenses is because everything else out there makes decisions about what is delicious and what's not delicious, which can then result in major trophic food web changes, but is based on that smaller chemistry. So in thinking about just the plant lifestyle, it really sounds as though what you're saying is that plants have evolved this very complex communication system to communicate among themselves and also with other organisms in the world around them. And their communication is something that can move through space in a way that they can't. Yes, yes, exactly. All right. So what are some of the, what are some of these adaptations that like, like what kind of defensive adaptations have plants come up with over the years? Man, there's some good ones. So some extreme cases, plants can defend themselves in more than just these direct compounds. So we, there are many plants that if you go into the forest, you wouldn't want to eat because they can be incredibly toxic. Some plants can make cyanide like lima bean, which I study, or... I knew I didn't like lima beans for a reason. Exactly. Now you have a reason. Got it.  They are. Go ahead. Sorry.  Everything that tastes delicious is because that plant has been trying to not be eaten. Pretty cool. But plants can do things besides just make toxic compounds. They can also use, like I was talking about the insects, they can use those to extend their distance. Instead of being stuck in one place, they can bring in ants to that plant that can patrol the plant. And if you've ever seen ants at a picnic, they can be fairly aggressive. And when they find some kind of sugar resource, I find that ants tend to protect that resource. And so when a plant is the one producing a nectar, which is the case, plants can make... Some many plants can make this extra floral nectar or a nectar that is used just for this purpose to attract and draw ants and have them present on the plant, so that it wouldn't be very fun for any other organism to spend any time there. I think one of my favorites was... Isn't it catnip? That creates like the scent of...  Ooh, possibly, yes. There's all kinds of stuff like that. And they do it in the aphid off season when they aren't getting... So it draws in predators for aphids to go and look for them, yeah. Yeah, so just like you were saying, Justin, about the wolves in Yellowstone, predators can drastically change the community ecology. And so plants signaling to the predator, often plants can produce... Just like you're saying, those hormones that will bring them in. And there are parasitoid wasps that lay their eggs inside of... Or they lay their young, their larvae inside of the insect that's consuming a plant, which if you go to any rose bush, you can almost always find one of the aphids somewhere on that plant is probably puffed up like a race crispy and a little bit golden brown. I posted a series of photos on Instagram and Twitter about this one aphid parasitoid that I found that we kept and we put it in the lab in this giant... Or giant relative to the aphid, but it's like still miniature, like the size of a fruit fly. Wasp came out of it. That was the young of a predator that had consumed that aphid. And so is the rose doing something to actively bring the wasps in to look for these guys? We do know for sure that the parasitoid wasps are using the plant scent compounds to find their hosts. However, it's a messy world out there. So if you take one rose bush, one aphid, one parasitoid in a lab, that works beautifully. But when you have aphids on a plant in nature that also is being attacked by a caterpillar in this other kind of larvae, there's a lot of different signals in the air. And an aphid sends attacking a plant compared to a caterpillar consuming a plant. We'll send out different smells from that plant. So partly because they're regulated by different plant chemical pathways. And so when one pathway is turned up, it actually crosstalks and turns off the other communication pathway. So the plant, the result is that the smell is not a perfect sum of both aphid induced and caterpillar induced. It's somewhere in the middle. And so the predators that can respond to that then vary. And then you have your community ecology determined by the top down pressure varying based on those plant compounds that are released. That's so fascinating. So let's go from here into what the focus of your dissertation work is. Awesome. So most of that is very similar. I have been lucky to be able to study almost all of what we just talked about. I study direct toxic compounds. I study plants using these what we call indirect defenses, meaning bringing in predators to patrol and evict or kill off the other attackers or before attackers on the plant. But not all plants are stand alone in the soil. Many of them, especially plants in the bean family for base A. And I study lima bean. They are able to form a symbiotic relationship with rhizobia in the soil. And what rhizobia do, they're a bacteria that the plant roots send a chemical signal to the bacteria. The bacteria respond and send one back. And they basically give them a big tissue hug and then create dip and dot like structures on the roots that then become nitrogen fixing factories. So what that means is our air is made up of about 80% nitrogen. But still, despite that most plants struggle to have enough nitrogen to produce the proteins and compete and make flowers and fruit and defensive compounds. So nitrogen is a pretty useful resource. And plants that have access to these nitrogen fixing microbes are able to use that resource in different ways. And so our the exciting thing is that we found that plants with our lima bean plants that have nitrogen fixing bacteria produce greater amounts of toxic cyanide but recruit fewer ants. And when I went to Costa Rica to test the native communities of parasitoid wasps, these same plants attract fewer of the wasps when they have the microbes. And so the big question that my dissertation work as a whole leads me to is whether whether these plants are actually limited. Which, let me explain. So any good relationship even, I'm sure among a team of three wonderful people that run this week in science all relationships require energy and resources. Even the best ones. And that energy in the symbiotic relationship of bean plants looks like up to 30% of the plants sugars can be directed towards the nodules keeping that metabolism of the microbes fixing nitrogen from the air and converting it into an organic form. And so it's a significant cost. And so one theory is that these plants are less able to attract predators because they're sending so much of their carbohydrate pool into nodules to maintain healthy rhizobia. My other theory is that it's more of a functional food web shift. Like we were talking about aphids and caterpillars and there's so much going on above ground that if plants have access to that nitrogen and have the capacity to take it into their own hands, if you will, and make their own toxic compounds to protect their leaves then spending extra sugar resources to bring in predators might not be as useful because even volatile organic compounds, they're not technically sugar is the same way that the nectar would be to attract ants but all of those compounds have large often either 10 to 15 for mono or sesquiterpenes carbon molecules which can are derived from the carbohydrates made in photosynthesis. And so it might be more beneficial for the plant to be directly defended and rely less on those indirect but that would depend on how the food web then would select for the most successful plants that could reproduce. Isn't there also an effect on the surrounding plants? When you have when you have answering pictures, so then they may be also either growing quicker or less quick. I'm not sure what it would be, but could they be drawing more predators away from that plant if they're suddenly more excited and growing quicker but not having the nodules themselves to feed maybe they've got more sugars going. That's a very interesting question, Justin. Associational effects of whatever chemistry the legume itself is producing is a great question. I know for sure that the talking trees philosophy or the paper that came out that became big in pop culture where one tree being attacked that then could communicate through the air to another tree oh no the trees can warn each other crazy. Has later been translated as eavesdropping where it is far more effective for if, I guess I have a real leaf I don't have to have a hand leaf although the hand leaf is great. So if this leaf is attacked and all of these leaves are now in danger of being attacked it's far more effective to send out a compound into the air and be able to communicate to this entire cloud of leaves especially if you're a tree with a lot. Then sending a signal into the vein down the stem and into every single vein plus a recent paper just came out this year showing that the vascular tissues don't actually connect to all parts of the plant so if that were how plants did it it wouldn't connect anyway. So to answer your question just in the plants around in the area are able to eavesdrop from one plant's self communication process. Yeah they can eavesdrop but I'm just thinking also the nitrogen in the soil they got the nitrogen fixing microbes right are the plants around it getting a benefit from this nitrogen fixing even though they themselves aren't doing it and if so and they're not having to feed that resource are they then allowed to produce more sugars and then by course of that be more attractive to the predators and pull away from the nitrogen fixer. That's what I would guess. So the one interesting thing you're right below ground is also a very complicated ecological world as well it is not just root in soil with nodules there are also I mean sweets of bacteria and fungi and all kinds of things and nematodes living in the soil so this entire above ground situation I've been describing has also been characterized below ground but in to a lesser degree there's much fewer work because it's harder to see all of what's happening below ground but to answer your question more directly the benefit plants get around legumes and the reason we use clover and soybean all kinds of legumes as our cover crops for soil conservation and maintaining that ecosystem as much as possible is not necessarily because the nodules are leaky there is bringing nitrogen into the biological system is helpful but part of that is through how would it get there how would that nitrogen get into the soil what do you think I have no idea good question so basically stuff so as stuff dies it gets into the soil and becomes part of that organic matter the other thing that happens is the actual nitrogen fixation process produces hydrogen gas and hydrogen gas contains energy that a different set of microbes can come in and break and use that energy because nature is not not about to waste that energy so the unique suite of microbes around the plants then in that soil community could influence how the neighboring plants interact below and above ground with all of their microbes all of their positively or negatively depending on what that plant soil like sweet zone for a soil micro combo is right this is the challenge of plant defense ecology right now is the context dependency in well this works here and this works there so understanding the mechanism for how certain factors like nitrogen fixing bacteria can influence a predator above ground understanding whether that is actually a resource tradeoff versus a plant allocation shift could be really useful especially since many agricultural practices are excited and interested are possibly using biocontrol this last weekend I went to a wine bar and brought in my puffed up a third and showed the wine maker and she was very excited and talked about how they use biodynamic control or how they not biodynamic specifically how they use this predator indirect defense by releasing parasitoid wasps to protect their vineyards nice there's so much that we need to that you're right I mean this context dependency is going to affect so much of how we move forward in agriculture in there's we put all this fertilizer into the soil to maintain the furthest fertilizer to maintain the soil and to have reduced soil degradation over time with farming practices we've got these new practices with pest can with biopest control and so many things so many things so many that you would think this is a complex earth system or something tell me about velcro velcro so the other cool thing is that plants don't just do everything with chemistry they also have mechanical responses so one of the the exciting things is that sometimes plant defenses can show up in the same plants in force versus another so we found that our lima bean plants that have a lot of that toxic hydrogen cyanide also produce a higher density of these tiny little hairs that are hook shaped that seem to act as velcro that could be challenged if you walk on a trail that has a tree down and all the branches are scraggly it's going to be a lot harder to walk past to continue on your way than if that tree is standing up straight and right alongside the trailer even if you have to walk between the trees it's easier than when all the branches are tangled in front of you and so are you think about it as a predator mobility on a leaf could be important if the plant is relying on predators to come in and get rid of those herbivores the other thing could be that herbivores interact differently with different defenses so the cyanide that is increased in these same plants that have the tiny hook trichomes or hairs they they're very well defended against chewing herbivores by having that toxic defense because the way that cyanide works is you know genesis is the name of this defense it works like a glow stick where there's a compound inside most of the cell in that big vacuole that fills most of the cell but there's an enzyme that plants make that's determined genetically that is in the surrounding apoplast and so when the glow stick is broken those two compounds mix and the enzyme cuts off the hydrogen cuts a glucose off of the hydrogen cyanide and releases that as a toxin so for herbivores that do the mashing and they grind up the leaves effectively it releases that and allows it to happen but an aphid kind of sneaks it's styled in and goes between the layers and doesn't necessarily rupture as many of those molecules so by having another defense co-vary and show up in the same plants that are highly cyanogenic that those plants could be more defended against multiple feeding kills it's I think you know it's kind of like the movies where they do the macro lenses to take you down to the the level of the insects and you start thinking of the world that these plants really are living in I mean I'm living in this world and I'm like oh look a bird a tree that's wonderful but these plants are living in this much much tinier scale they're having to pay attention you know I'm like oh an ant or a flea and you flick it off right yes but they're they're really concerned about those mechanical defenses the chemical defenses and how they can how they can work at the large scale and also at the small scale it's an unending biological arms race beautiful that's me so so you have a question in your blog one of your blog entries that's here it's should plants protect their flowers yes I think they should because flowers are pretty but well flowers aren't fruit right fruit is meant to be eaten but flowers are meant to be pollinated so I guess you don't want flowers to get eaten right you just want them rubbed against if you're a plant isn't that right yeah there has to be some rubbing for the sex to happen and you heard it here if that's my one tweetable quote I'm winning when we put out the show I'll say I'll have that as the quote it's actually now the title of the show today's show um so that's a complicated thing right so if the plant needs to bring in the right bugs it has to filter out for the right bugs but creating something that is attractive is going to attract most things um that paper was fascinating because we just assume sure flowers lead to seeds and natural selection acts on anything that helps the plant make seeds and survive and bring its genes to the next generation so if flowers are demolished then one would think that they would be less successful but in the case for lima bean when we tested the actual cyanogenic potential of the different ages of leaves and flowers we found that the flowers weren't very toxic at all and the highest highest amount of cyanogenic potential was found in the young leaf tissue and those young leaves um to really oh man that doesn't actually line up with the optimal defense theory or the most fitness related um pattern that we would expect to find and so the interesting thing is when we actually removed the flowers and tested it that there wasn't any fitness effect that the plants made just as many seeds as long as we left some flowers it didn't matter how many they had which was fascinating so they just need some they don't need all and sometimes there's a compensatory growth effect where the reduction can focus the energy into certain plants so the the interesting thing came when we did the same thing with the highest the most toxic organ when we took young leaf tissue away and young leaf is those are the the potential of the future the photosynthesis of days to come when days are hopefully better for that place and you told the plant I don't care about tomorrow what can you do for me right now so we removed uh different degrees quantitative levels of leaf tissue and found that the um the number of seeds that plant was able to make dropped with as many it dropped along with our leaf removal and so it actually quantitatively affected fitness pretty neat so it did show in fact that yes plants are putting their money where the fitness is essentially there are they're spending their cytogenic potential where the fitness benefit can come from right so it took us testing that to actually have that insight so the plants the the flowers can get eaten up to a certain like up to a certain extent but the leaves really they need to stay right there yeah the currency of the future and I suppose the interesting thing too is that it's not consistent across plants that other plans would have a different different effect in theory I found a lot of cool papers as I was working through that one so if you're excited about flowers and different strategies of where a plant should put its most valuable poisons it's a fascinating area yeah so what do you think much about I mean the toxin likes like cyanide you know people don't want to eat cyanide so we don't eat lima bean leaves right we eat the lima beans we don't eat the lima bean leaves but there are other compounds that we do really like and what is it about various compounds that I mean why are humans different from other animals or primates I guess what are we why why are we like I like that bitter flavor I'm going to eat that kale well if your monkey's not I don't know that I know I've never given a monkey kale before to find out I have yeah okay so this taps into a question that I grappled with the first few years of grad school I still kind of do because it baffles me that these same compounds that I study show up on like the there's a burrito place in Portland laughing planet that has sometimes has a sign that talks about the value of isothiocyanates like wait a minute but that's the defense compound in those plants or glucosinolates that is in kale and allows them to be so healthy so why is it this plant poison that is conferring our human health benefits and there's you can find all kinds of research ended up in an internet wormhole I'm sure that reaction is that the reason those compounds are useful as a defense is because they can they interact with biological systems they're not inert they have some kind of reaction and so there was an interesting work done where I think it was a German group that injected chloroplasts put them into a cancer cell and of course the free radicals they generated just destroyed the cancer cells and I'm not by any means any kind of cancer biologist or have much of that that expertise but I do know that alkaloids are able to interact with nervous system receptors and so that's how they have that caffeine effect or but that's also why they're toxic and why the plant makes them to begin with I think the biggest thing here why we can eat many things that would be toxic to a caterpillar is not a caterpillar we're enormous exactly we've got a liver and kidneys it's true and sometimes the caterpillars can specialize they can choose to consume the or caterpillars aphids there are specialists on almost everything that can choose to consume the most poisonous plants because they either have figured out how to detoxify them or can store them and then allow them to succeed more like the monarch butterfly situation where they are not a delightful treat and the birds quickly learn to not consume monarchs long live the monarchs and then and the monarch mimics who don't actually taste like them but look like them so that they get that benefit of not getting eaten exactly and then they don't have to deal with creating the enzymatic cost of actually dealing with the toxins I love all this so you are when are you when are you defending your dissertation Friday afternoon at 2pm Friday you're almost there congratulations and where do you go from here from here I will do two more experiments on this system over the summer that I don't have to do for my PhD but I'm so curious about what would happen so I'm kind of just having some fun projects that will in theory stock the data fridge and I love teaching my I see research as research and discovery and creating new questions as a vessel to teach and help share somewhere along the way I figured out this very nerdy but beautiful affinity for the natural world that I cannot see and I feel like I really need to share that and in any way that I can help anyone else see the beauty around them whether it's in the way that the Krebs cycle works or how plants can make certain compounds or any part of how this beautiful natural world works I want to share I want to illuminate how the world is beautiful so a more tangible answer for you is that I am I took a postdoc in Switzerland and we'll be heading over there in August studying a beautiful flower that has an incredible deceptive pollination system what they do is they smell like poop and flies looking for poop to lay your eggs get trapped they fly in and this incredible system has a narrow part in this flower where the flies fly in and they buzz around the females pollinate them the males blue shower them in pollen the flies buzz out 24 hours later and get tricked again and so my big question is looking at the poop scent profiles and figuring out if they differ in Italy and France to the ones that are in Croatia and see if the fly species that's most attractive most attracted to those specific scents is actually the one that's pollinating the most so do you think that maybe because there are different animals that are pooping in those areas and so they might have different scents to relate to those probably which is that they might have different profiles yes and possibly the food that those animals ate in order to create and their microbial processes so maybe it is another bottom up effect of a micro connected man it's all now you can go around and say yeah my postdoc poop sented flowers I do my friends love it that's fantastic emoji world has already sent me up for absolutely many poop emojis in your future so is this the scent compound is there one compound you're looking at or is I mean do you already have a molecule molecules in mind or are you doing a chemistry chemistry treasure hunt I'm a little bit of both so we have as a community of chemical ecologists we have like a set of characters that show up in many plants and do certain things that we're like are buzz words so we know jasmine acid is related to chewing herbivore defenses or certain compounds like linolaw is a very flower pollinator system compound but we're learning more and more about what each of those compounds can do but also the broader scale of what how everything else around them actually matter as well so a little exploratory but I'll keep my eye out for some of my old friends that I know well nice very nice and you'll be in Switzerland yes so are you speaking French German or Austrian I will be in the French region there are four languages I've learned in Switzerland no it's a romage so it's Italian French that's what it is yes all right you're going to be great I need to learn your fluent in all of them right yes and fluent in smiling and figuring it out that is a great skill that's how you start and finally I'm getting into social media and your communication efforts you have an Instagram account you have a Twitter account and you have your website with its blog can you tell people where they can find you yes my Instagram is a Godshox which is my first letter of my first name and my last name Godshox and the my blog and website have come from actually working part of where I developed the way that I talk about what I talk about has come from working at a restaurant in bartending and as I would make a mojito I would notice that guests would get excited as I talked about well you know that these are the the alpha limonene in your lemon twist are actually the result of plants in a long co-evolutionary battle with a bug that was trying to eat it and so I've generated a lot of really fun conversations across the bar top which is how I came up with the concept for a blog called science martini my tagline is plant biology with a twist nice well done and Ed from Connecticut wants to know what's the plant biologist drinking game great question well Ed I challenge you to make a cocktail that is out of some sort of either wintergreen or jasmine flavored something I mean it's a game for a bartender I don't know if it's a game for everyone in the world but wintergreen is the smell of that methyl salicylate one of the plant hormones that is released typically in the aphid world or in response to fungi that get inside of a leaf which we also have been talking about but that's a whole other world that you'll have to talk to my buddy who also is in the lab Brett Younginger so he studies them we like the fungi yeah here he's a real fun guy fun guy Blair cannot leave a pun can't leave the pun standing Adrian thank you so much for joining us tonight this has just been wonderful hearing about your work and hearing about where you're going with it and good luck in Switzerland thank you so much Kiki this was such an honor you're welcome everyone once again you can find her at sciencemartini.com or agachox on our website twist.org if you don't want to remember these things so if you're interested in also her instagram account is full of some fabulous pictures I love I want you to know I love following your instagram thank you I appreciate going through it I'm like oh beautiful nature photos yeah it's always time in the day for wonder right yeah exactly you do a good job with that so I highly recommend the instagram for everyone out there all right you guys yes great guest people in the chat room thank you so much Adrian thank you you're welcome we are going to take a quick break and then come back again for some science stories this is this week in science stay tuned hey everybody this is this week in science I hope you have been enjoying the show we just had a wonderful interview and we hope to bring you many many more I want to have lots of people talking about the science they do and helping to fill you with wonder if you want to hear lots more wonderful stuff we will be at the young innovators fair this weekend Saturday and Sunday in Philadelphia greater Philadelphia expo center Saturday and Sunday this week oh my goodness the 10th and 11th I'm leaving on a red eye with Justin tomorrow night it's going to be amazing I'm going to be so tired we're going to be so tired all weekend but it will be great but you know it is support from people like you who listen to the show that allow us to continue to bring great interviews and science news to you week after week and to do fun things like heading out to events like 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additionally at twist.org we have a donate button so if you would rather just click on that donate button you can do that and it will take you to a PayPal page where you can use PayPal to send us the money it's very easy pretty painless and it helps us immensely if you want to get involved in our Patreon community you click on the Patreon link in the main header bar that will take you to patreon.com this week in science and you just click on the big orange become a patron button it's a great big button you can't miss it and if you click on that you choose your level of support and it's an episode by episode basis and you can set limits for the month though and you get little rewards for being part of it if you heard at the end of every show I read off a bunch of names and those are the people who are pledging $2 or more per episode so if you pledge $5 an episode you will get your name read as well all sorts of neat things here on the Patreon community we do occasionally share special content little notes and messages with our Patreon community that don't go out to everybody else so it's kind of like a little special place that you can be a part of and while you're at it you help produce twist you really help us make this show possible we thank you for your support we could not do this without you and we're back with more this weekend science Kiki what you got we have general relativity yeah yeah I got general relativity you guys we all have that well Einstein came up with the idea we can all rest easily now that we know general relativity it's like oh yeah general relativity and this is the standard idea of how the physics the universe works energy and everything or related mass and energy and all that kind of stuff you know there's still questions about how it really works and is it really right does it explain everything lots of questions about that and so there's a very interesting study that was reported this last week and a group out of a group used the Keck telescopes to look at a couple of stars that were orbiting big massive black hole a big massive black hole here in the Milky Way and looking to see how that black hole affected the light around the stars affected the gravitational movement of the stars and you know there's certain predictions that can be made based on general relativity and if general relativity works you'd expect one result and if there's something wonky and there's something else working at work there other factors at play then you would see a different result and so so this team that dug up this data and did this test around this supermassive black hole here in the Milky Way they have about 25 years worth of data that gave them 100 or so observations from these from these different stars and they had all this data that was each time because it was over like 25 years the observations were performed a little bit differently so once at one point it was just a simple observation and the telescopes were upgraded and there were adaptive optics added and then there were spectral data obtained as opposed to just imaging and so the spectral data you can see actual Doppler shift because of the movement of the stars so that gives orbital velocity information and so all of this was put together and the scientists were like okay we'll take all these different numbers and all these different measurements and put it all together and we want to see how this all works and basically they confirmed general relativity nothing was weird everything was just right so general relativity wins again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again yeah so the big thing about this is that it's neat that they've been able to take this old data but the way that they were able to look at it was because this was digitized open data these were data sets that other scientists those who work at the Keck telescopes made available to the public and so these scientists were able to go hey I want to look at this oh look there's a database there's this data and we can data mine it we can find the data that we need within this data set that's been collected for 25 years so right as once upon a time you know it was like oh we took one measurement and it was a picture and then we took that picture and we put it in a filing cabinet somewhere and that filing cabinet is in Antarctica and nobody else can see this picture ever again so so the way in which this study was done is a very exciting movement and this is not just astronomy that's moving toward this these open data sets there's also climate change a lot of physics is moving this way the large Hadron Collider at CERN their data is big open data sets so that data mining can take place to be able to pick out information and be able to figure things out about the universe that maybe we wouldn't have been able to before because all that information was not stored really well or just shoved in a filing cabinet and maybe you know it's all gone after that scientist retires right and then additionally about it you know it's neat to be able to test these ideas about gravity using these massive black holes in space and how they affects the movement of stars because we really can't do those tests in labs here on the planet it doesn't work the same way so we have to look out away from ourselves to be able to and use high powered telescopes to be able to really get high resolution confirmation of ideas like general relativity there we go wins again University of Wisconsin Madison researcher Amy Barger and an undergraduate student presented at the meeting of the American Astronomical Society this week on results of their new study looking at the Swiss cheese of the universe and the hole in that Swiss cheese in which we live we live in a big Swiss cheese hole I know so our universe we know that it looks like a bunch of filaments you know these images of what our universe looks like as we've simulated it it looks kind of Swiss cheesy or like a a thick cob web where you have filaments of matter stars and dust and gas that tie everything together and then in between those filaments you have voids and the voids don't have much in them however the Milky Way exists inside one of the largest voids in our universe we live in the boondocks way way out there in the fringes yeah we live way out it's not just the fringes but we live in the desert there's not much around us we're out there man way out there and so what is it about being in a void that is important and so what this new study is it really confirms or more closely confirms the fact that we are in fact indeed in a void and as a matter of being in the void we're not seeing the universe consistently every time we look at it because sometimes we're looking at things that are in the filaments where there's a lot of matter and other times we're looking at things that are within the void and so the expansion of the universe and we've talked about this before on the show there's not always consistency in the measurement of the rate of expansion and the reason behind this is that it's we live in a void and so the void kind of it changes the answer we get depending on what rational technique we use so what this study basically said is that it brings all these measurements and kind of equilibrates them so that because we're in the void there are certain factors in the void where we're not seeing expansion as much the speed of light or speed of objects moving away from us is not as rapid in the filaments we're seeing things move more rapidly to that degree yeah so the Hubble constant is the main measurement that they're looking at and so researchers say that a direct comparison can be made between the cosmic determination of the Hubble constant and the local determination derived from observations of light from relatively nearby supernovae so we have supernovae standard candles that we use we look at the light that's traveling to us from those supernovae we know how brightly they burn right and so we know how much light and how bright and how far away they are as a result of that but that's more local yeah it's more local versus say the cosmic microwave background radiation which is this cosmic stuff and it gives a different it gives a different answer and so this new there's this new analysis that shows that there are no current observational obstacles to the conclusion that the Milky Way resides in a very large void and the presence of the void can resolve some of the discrepancies between techniques that we're using to clock how fast the universe is expanding knowing where you are makes a difference in how you look at everything around you relatively speaking relatively speaking that sentence can mean a lot of things knowing where you are can have an effect on how you see the things around you yes absolutely well it's in relativity so I'm on a bus things are moving no those things are stationary I'm moving this understanding knowing you're on that bus is going to change the way that you perceive what's going on around and so it will change the way it equilibrates the way these calculations are made so it's going to be fun stuff trippy man we're in a void we're in a void yeah it's a big cosmic far out dude void one void go ahead I was just going to say we could stay in our void and study poop flowers I was going to say that one void in our knowledge about the age of mankind Homo sapiens has been filled in age of modern humans just got a little bit older actually it's exactly as old as it ever was but now we have a better idea of just how ancient we really are fossil bones stone tools dating to about 300 thousand years have been discovered and it's not where some might have expected to find that these ancient humans these were found in Morocco previously the oldest homo sapien fossils were found in omocubish site in Ethiopia those dated at 195 thousand years ago until now the working model was that all humans living today descended from a population that lived in East Africa around that 200 thousand year-ish time Cody voice was a cradle of mankind 200 thousand years ago in East Africa but our new data reveal that homo sapiens spread across the entire African continent around 300 thousand years ago long before the out of Africa dispersal of homo sapiens there was a dispersal within Africa says paleoanthropologist Jean-Jacques Hublin who probably sounds nothing like that whatsoever though we have covered on this show before there was a modern human integration into a Siberian Neanderthal lineage that occurred from 100 to maybe even 230 thousand years ago as seen through the DNA of Neanderthal fossil found in Siberia so already we had clues that our origins may be a little bit older than the oldest fossil find and perhaps much more far flung that and when finding fossils there are places where fossils form easier and areas where fossils formed are more accessible East Africa is the sweet spot for both of those scenarios so it's sort of the low hanging fruit of paleoanthropology the whole Rift Valley and also the area where the oldest fossils found are areas in which you have access to sort of like if you're looking at the sides of the Grand Canyon you can sort of go back through the years and the ages and because it was sediment and flood zones these are areas that would cover fossils well and then also make them easier to find being in an area that was accessible years and years later so that said this finding of a fossil 100,000 years earlier than the previous oldest find is like breaking an Olympic record not by tenths of a second but by two thirds of the old time this is a huge discovery the American site Jebel Rode I have no idea how to pronounce it has been well known since the 1960s for its human fossils and artifacts its interpretation of the 22 fossil remains of skulls, teeth long bones of at least 5 individuals remained somewhat unclear it had been estimated to be 160,000 years old so not nearly as old as they're now finding so to provide a precise chronology these finds researchers used the thermos luminescence dating method on heated flints found in the same deposits these flints yielded the age of approximately 500,000 years this is a quotey voice of somebody else well dated sites of this age are exceptionally rare in Africa but what we were fortunate but we were fortunate that so many of the Jebel Irode flint artifacts had been heated in the past says geochronology expert Daniel Richter, Max Planck Institute he explains this allowed us to apply thermos luminescence dating methods on the flint artifacts and establish consistent chronology for the new hominin fossils and the layers above them in addition, Dume was able to recalculate direct age of a mandible found in the 60s, this mandible is the one previously dated to 160,000 years and pushed it up to that 300,000 year range also what's really interesting the crania of modern humans living today are characterized by a combination of features this is morphology stuff that distinguish our fossils from our ancestors and maybe some of the cousins that we're running around the morphology and age of the fossils from the raucous site actually are corroborating an interpretation of a partial cranium find from Florsbad South Africa that was thought to be an early representative of homo sapiens but there's been it wasn't really confirmed that this was an early homo sapien they only had this partial cranium piece that piece is estimated to be 260,000 years old so it's not just the one pushing it back to 300,000 now because of morphology they're connecting it to a previously dated site that's at 260,000 in South Africa two out layers from East Africa now much much much older than the previous oldest modern human homo sapien ever discovered so that's that's pretty awesome they say that fossils were found deposits containing anal bones showing evidence of hunting turns out our favorite meal back then in Morocco gazelle everybody loves gazelle most stone tools were made from high quality flint that were actually imported to the site that the flints themselves couldn't be found there also interesting hand axes a tool that was commonly found in ancient sites that aren't that ancient were not present at all at the site so we may have a little bit of a timeline for the origin of the hand axe amongst modern humans now and Ed from Connecticut is saying we need to shout out to UC Davis for this study as well UC Davis was involved in this study oh that I didn't know yes absolutely that I think that's the first that I had heard about it was a UC Davis report and other oldie stuff news there's a this is professor David Pierce director of the rock art research institute university of with waters and Rand Johannesburg they managed to carbon date some cave paintings that they found one in southeastern Botswana they're at least 5500 years old and some in Lestotho eastern Cape Drakensburg South Africa that are as old as 3000 years so this has been something they haven't been able to do before is date these paintings we're I guess not talking about an artifact site that's that simply found but they did carbon dating they moved millimeter of the actual paint they took it and they managed to date it to that that ancient age some of the sites paintings continue to be made for more than a thousand years so a thousand years people are coming back to the same caves and adding paintings to them a thousand years of graffiti could you imagine if people kept putting gum on the gum wall in Seattle for a thousand years not the same so you're saying graffiti so this is Pierce quote people return to the same rock shelters over long periods of time to make rock paintings very similar to those made centuries or millennia before this finding has profound implications for understanding of hunter gather religion in southern Africa and I take a little bit of umbrage to both graffiti and the religious aspect of this this is only a personal observation but while it's common for cave paintings to be interpreted this way there seems to be very clearly an educational value to the artwork there's tails of caution every once in a while he's being gored by the horns watch out for that end it's gonna be dangerous there's hunting methods and it's a zoological record remember we're not too long ago we were talking about cave paintings in Europe where they discovered that actually there was a bison that was a hybrid of two others that was actually being correctly portrayed in cave paintings whereas it had looked like they'd kind of just been rough shot artwork where they were getting elements of the bison that they're currently wrong so for a thousand year site we may be looking something that's much more akin to the first library or university and stop thinking of it purely in religious context we took lessons from animals early on this is how we found sources of food and where to go for water and shelter any sorts of things so studying the life forms that were present for early man was the biggest most probably important form of study that existed it's probably the first science that we're looking at and they're dating this back to five thousand or three thousand years right one site is three thousand years one went back to fifty five hundred years this versus like Egyptian hieroglyphs where they that was also historical record educational this is you know they're writing down with their their hieroglyphs and pornography all took place yeah so this and satire was there and it's around the same time period right ish yeah ish fifty five hundred years old is older yeah but ancient Egypt's around thirty five hundred I think yeah three thousand years is kind of yeah but I think that a lot of early writings in any time there's a new methodology often falls to religion so I understand why that religion why that's a hypothesis I think it's a presumption sure but it's also it has to do with the fact that some of the very first books ever printed were of the Bible right so when when that technology exists I don't think it's a huge leap to go there but I also think that just recognizing it as a a written account we don't know exactly what it means but yeah just recognizing that it's definitely a recording that's not just for fun I think that that's important to know and there's books much much older than the Bible of course much older yes but in terms of mass production it was one of the very first yeah okay for printing press yeah so I'm saying that when a new a new methodology rises in recording and spreading information it often is used for religious texts that's pretty common I don't know I would just totally disagree when it comes to greats we call it religion but it's culture yeah it's culture absolutely it's great equalizer and acquisitions and things like this but moving on yes please let's keep going we're gonna we're gonna wrap this show up I'm only gonna do this really quick chimeric antigen receptor T cell therapy they did a test in humans they were working with multiple melanoma and they had a 94% clinical remission of multiple melanoma upon receiving myeloma upon receiving this new immunotherapy so this is this is where they take your own cells out they genetically program them one of the versions of this I've seen they were actually using HIV getting rid of the dangerous parts of the virus programming it to attack certain types of cancers putting it back into the body in with hours or days bringing people thus far this this looks like the side effects were mild and previous versions of this and for a different use it was actually killing a small percentage of the patients who were mice I think at the time too so oh no actually humans they did a human they actually did a human trial the humans that died from this other people who cared so but this is CAR T cell CAR T cell therapy we're going to be talking about this more in the future so today this is just sort of a teaser version and Borneo formerly known formerly Borneo Cali-Mantan they got footage of the monkey cat the monkey cat the monkey cat is real now they're still claiming this is more cat than monkey likely I saw the pictures definitely like a cat it looks like a monkey it looked lanky and a little monkey monkey-ish a cat with a tiny head a cat with a tiny head it's got a kind of a bulbous butt that's sort of monkey-ish and you know that tail looks like a monkey tail but yeah it looks like they're calling it a bay cat but this is something that was captured a decade ago plus maybe and in a few frames of a motion detector camera with low resolution at night we were still at UC Davis down in the basement at Freeborn Hall when the monkey cat the monkey cat images were first taken yeah and this is quote from the honest to pause site that this got sent to me from just wait until you see this sleek feline in action he almost looks like a cross between a black panther and some sort of giant monkey right that's uh that's monkey cat actually it doesn't even look like a cat to me it looks like a weasel weasel yeah now you're gonna start a whole new a whole new drama of a monkey weasel monkey weasel I'm just I'm very curious I was looking at this it did get sent to us from this this website but there's not really any cited material because I was trying to figure out I was trying to figure out what they think you know genius or family or anything related to that in the version they saw what does that mean and and also also they uh they do mention that they searched for this thing for months and this thing has been a mystery for you know over a decade so oh catto puma baidia is what they're calling it well it's very exciting very very is it borneo now and it used to be tally mantan or tally mantan now also known as the bornean cat and demiksha borneo and also monkey cat monkey cat okay okay all right you guys do you know what time it is what time is it I think the monkey cat has swung us into player's animal corner oh well you know what I'm sorry I have runny lips ew does that ever happen to you when you know your lips get they just get a little bit snotty no especially when they're super wrinkly too my lips just right now they're just super wrinkly and snotty ew oh you know why I know why it's because I've been eating coral yeah I don't do it I guess wait no no I'm getting confused it wasn't me with the mucusy lips it's a wrass it's a tube lip wrass yeah so tube lip wrasses what are you saying tube lipped wrass is that what this is it's type of fish wrass W-R-A-S-S-E type of fish the tube lip wrass looks a little bit different in the face they're run-of-the-mill wrasses and that's because most wrasses they have smooth thin lips and they're kind of toothy but tube lip wrasses as the name might suggest they pucker up their lips a little like this and you can't really see their teeth so why are they like that also how do they eat the food that they eat well it turns out that they eat coral coral is indeed an animal people often forget about that I always like to remind our listeners that coral is a type of animal and that they are teeny tiny creatures that live inside of a skeleton that they kind of secrete and build and they are Nigerian so they're related to jellies and anemones and so they have stinging cells just like them so if I was a fish and I went to eat a coral I'd get stung it would be unpleasant and I'd probably bite down on that calcareous shell house that the coral has and hurt my teeth also it just would not be fun to eat a coral but the tube lip wrass has figured out how to get it done first their lips look just like the underside of a mushroom delicious so they look like the underside of a mushroom they're very wrinkly they have this kind of very finned kind of appearance on their lips and then the second part is that their lips create their own mucus yeah so the lips are like gills of a mushroom but covered in slime says David of James Cook University in Australia it's like having a runny nose but having runny lips instead the mucus they think it facilitates suction while offering protection from coral stinging nematocyst so they think that these guys go up to the coral they kind of just press their lips up their kind of really big lips up against the coral and then they create suction and they actually suck mucus more mucus so much mucus off of the coral yeah so they actually eat mostly the coral mucus not even the coral themselves so tube lip wrasses they just love their mucus this actually opens up a new way of looking at the way fishes feed so we know mainly about biting fishes and gaping suck fishes so either fish will bite you or they'll open up their mouth so fast that it'll create suction and pull their food into their mouth those are the two types of fish feeding that we know about these guys bring a brand new one to the table they have the pucker up and suck they are deciding to call it or you could call it the snotty mushroom lips whatever you prefer but it is a new way that we have now seen fish eating that's pretty cool yeah and when you observationally discover something that was unexpected especially when the majority of those wrasses they're not so tube liped they're yes exactly almost and there are about 6,000 fish species that we know of that live on reefs but only about 128 of them eat corals so they have to have something kind of special going on and this gives us a good clue into perhaps what some other individuals are doing so the researchers say their next step is to discover quote the magic of the mucus so they want to figure out exactly the mucus on their lips and the mucus that they're eating has going for it I think the magic of the mucus is going to be the title of my next solo piano album oh that's great that sounds wet okay so let's move on to other wet world we did not talk too much this show about climate change I don't want to trot over well traveled paths that everyone has made this week out on the internet there are especially mostly political paths right but we know that climate change is real and it needs our attention and so I think that it's important to continue looking at different ways that we can help set our planet up for success besides reducing carbon dioxide of course reducing carbon dioxide should be our number one priority but a multifaceted approach could be helpful a new study looking at marine reserves might have an idea so what might marine reserves have to do with climate change setting aside a safe haven for animals that doesn't reduce carbon dioxide that doesn't lower ocean temperatures but it's actually a really important piece in the puzzle so an international team of scientists they actually evaluated 145 peer reviewed studies on the impact of marine reserves this study is being published in the proceeds of the National Academy of Sciences this week and they found that marine reserves while they don't halt or offset climate change they actually make marine ecosystems more resilient and in some cases slow down the rate of climate change so it actually can have a direct effect why well healthy ocean ecosystems take up carbon so if we have a marine reserve these ecosystems are unaffected food webs are unaffected kelp is flourishing corals flourish phytoplankton flourish all those things take in carbon dioxide and make oxygen it sounds similar to the idea of conserving earth's forests making these areas we know trees are important for the uptake of carbon dioxide we know that they are important for the creation of oxygen but we talk a lot about deforestation we don't talk a lot about the destruction of ocean ecosystems absolutely and so the researchers working on this paper actually they tested the effective marine reserves on protecting ocean ecosystems and people from five impacts of climate change ocean acidification rising sea levels an increase in the severity of storms shifts in the distribution of species and decreased ocean productivity and availability of oxygen and all of those things showed a positive impact from protected spaces and protected marine ecosystems so essentially keeping the ecosystem healthy helps reduce the impacts of climate change but what's even more important is that animals that may be stressed or ecosystems that may be stressed by a change in climate can have a safe haven because really what we're seeing with a lot of things for example with the sea star wasting disease we found out it was a virus and it's a virus that's been around before but there were new added stressors to the equation we all know we can take a little bit of stress but if all the things happen on one day you're likely to sit down and have a panic attack so animals and ecosystems are just like that they can take a certain level of stressors but you add in all the stressors and there's likely to be some sort of collapse so actually having these reserves creates a safe haven for animals to flee to, to recover and to respond to stress in a healthy manner additionally marine ecosystems a lot of the protected areas are near or on coastlines and when you protect coastlines that's also directly related to mitigating the effects of climate change because you are allowing a reduction in erosion if for example in an estuary you have eelgrass that reduces erosion you're allowing space for animals to move if you don't have if you're not using beaches then animals and plants and the ecosystem can move up the coast so basically just having protected spaces is a huge plus in the fight against a changing climate and keeping ecosystems healthy which makes sense but it's great that scientists actually took the time to test against these five factors and find that yes indeed marine ecosystems that are protected it's not just a benefit because of a reduction of fisheries or a reduction in pollution it's all related and actually climate change there are benefits to protecting areas and like you said Kiki this can be directly related to protecting forests or other ecosystems on land as well it's all connected I think the largest hurdle is convincing people that it is in their better interests there are people in these coastal communities who rely on these marine ecosystems for their fishing for their food, for their livelihoods sometimes they're watching them disappear sometimes when they're impoverished they're going to be stressed themselves and have a hard time letting somebody take away their fishing area absolutely there are lots of balances in this system and like I said the biggest hurdle is convincing people it's in their best interest and we know a lot already about that too because a lot of these fisheries where people have been using those fisheries for a long time they understand population dynamics whether they know what it's called or the exact mechanism or not they understand that you need predators you need prey and so if you can kind of take it from that frame and talk about healthy ecosystems healthy food webs it's an easier step to take which is why this is actually kind of exciting is that if you don't have to talk about oh reduce your carbon output oh this kind of stuff there's other things that people can do that are not directly related to that they can't afford solar panels if they're not in a position to change policy at this moment in time supporting protected spaces is a great step in the right direction absolutely it is a positive step we can all hope that we can work together to take positive steps such as this recommended one as we move forward and if it's not in the United States a federal government decision maybe a local community decision can be made for this kind of action definitely based on good science though that is the key absolutely and so maybe if your local representative is not interested in reducing carbon output maybe they are interested in protecting local wildlife areas for maintenance of the ecosystems to make sure everything is working well that will upkeep the economy as well as potentially add tourist revenue to the economy who knows there's all sorts of angles we could take on this stuff and one idea that I came across that somebody is maybe even implementing now is energy turbines and water pipes oh that's great why wouldn't every why wouldn't it's pressurized in one end to push water through why not have turbines in there generating electricity in the city water line my other favorite is wind turbines on top of freeways yeah all good ideas there are many good ideas it's time for implementation yes let's do it maybe we should go see some young innovators to see what they're up to we should find out with young people of tomorrow or the young people of today or the young people of Philadelphia oh Philadelphia or the young people of Philadelphia specifically we're coming for you today who are the old people of tomorrow who will be running let's go to Philadelphia let's go to Philadelphia this weekend let's hang out at the young innovators fair meet people talk with them about what they want to change in this world what science they're interested in I think this is a good plan everybody once again young innovators fair Saturday Sunday June 10th and 11th twist is going to be there hopefully broadcasting live we hope to be there doing that but we'll be there no matter what it's time for us to end this show we've come to the end of our show and so I would like to shout out to our Patreon sponsors this is a whole music thank you Patreon sponsors Chris Clark, Paul Disney, G-Burton Latimore, John Ratnaswamy, Richard Onimus Byron Lee, EO Kevin Parachand, Tyrone Fong Andy Grove, Keith Corsel, Jake Jones Sherline Henry, Brian Hedrick John Gridley, Steve Backell Kevin Rails, Back Gerald Sorrells this is Atkins Dave Friedel James Randall Bogg, Calder Mark 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Thank you for all of your support on Patreon. And for anyone out there who is interested in supporting us through Patreon, you can go to twist.org and click on that Patreon link or go directly to our website at www.twist.org slash this week in science. Remember that an easy way to help us out also is to tell people about twists right now. Share us with people you know. Tell the person next to you that you're listening to an awesome podcast called twist and that they should check it out because there's some cool science in there. Share it on social media, get the word out. Tell people that will be in Philadelphia if you know people in the Philly area. We will be back once again broadcasting live online at 8 p.m. Pacific time. You can watch and join our chat room. Hey chat room! You were awesome once again. Don't worry if you can't make it, you can always find past episodes at twist.org slash YouTube or just twist.org. Thank you for enjoying the show. Twist is of course also available as a podcast. Just google this week in science in your iTunes directory or if you have a mobile type device, you can look for Twist TWS number 4 Droid app in the Android marketplace or simply this week in science in anything Apple market placey and something called Stitcher which I still don't know if that's a real thing. For more information on anything you've heard here today show notes will be available on our website that's at www.twist.org where you can also make comments and start conversations with the host as well as other listeners. Or you can contact us directly email kirsten at kirsten at thisweekinscience.com, Justin at twist meaning at gmail.com or Blair at BlairBaz at twist.org. Just be sure to put twist TWS somewhere in your subject line or your email will be spam filtered into oblivion. You can also hit us up on the Twitter where we are at twist science at Dr. Kiki at Jackson Fly at Blair's Menagerie. We love your feedback. If there's a topic you would like us to cover or address a suggestion for an interview please let us know. We'll be back here next week and we hope you'll join us again for more great science news. And if you'd like anything from the show remember. It's all in your head. This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science It's this weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, science, science This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, science, science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news That what I say may not represent your views But I've done the calculations and I've got a plan If you listen to the science you may just dead understand That we're not trying to threaten your philosophy We're just trying to save the world from jeopardy This weekend science is coming away So everybody listen to everything we say And if you use our methods, get a roll and a die We may rid the world of toxoplasma, got the eyes This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, science, science This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, science, science I've got a laundry list of items I want to address From stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness I'm trying to promote more rational thought And I'll try to answer any question you've got The help can I ever see the changes I seek When I can only set up shop one hour a week This weekend science is coming your way You better just listen to what we say And if you learn anything from the words that we've said Then please just remember it's a weekend science This weekend science, science, science This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, science, science This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, this weekend science This weekend science, this weekend science In the after show, I don't know, I tested my computer Before the show started and I got it all working And then the show started and Trouble play in the music again I do think I have a swelling battery finally An old Macbook I think it's a swelling battery that is How old is yours? Five million years, it's older than mankind itself What vintage is it? Oh, can I show off something? Big old Macbook I just got a new mouse pad Yay! How does it smell? I think I have a bag for my Weird, right? It smells weird, right? No, I don't know, I don't have a sense of smell Hey, can we go off it? I gotta talk shop, I gotta talk shop and quick I got almost three hours left In my whole packing, planning, plotting And getting ready to go Are you working tomorrow before leaving?  I was thinking of just doing Lyft or something Lyft Uber Probably not taxi That's the direction The hotel is about a mile from the event center So we can either lift an Uber to the event center Or we can go for a little walk 15-20 minutes to walk there Kiki, I need you to go to the flight From Alaska Air and confirm a seat I am right now From PDX to PHL What do you mean? I need you to pick a seat, I picked one What do you mean? I gave you a seat Oh, that was a sign because I didn't have the window So I thought that was weird No, I don't think there was a window available There is now, and I just grabbed it So you can get it next to me What seat are you?  I don't think so Well, I did Oh, I might have had the window because it's nighttime And I was going to sleep Oh, is it? Yeah, because it's a red eye And I was going to sleep That's why I took the window If you want the window for sleeping You can be all the way up there I can't take the old seat back Somebody else took it Well, you guys are just out of luck You're all the way next to the restroom You don't want that seat It always smells like You always get whips I'll be by the window, I'll be fine I can't change it because I already clicked the button No, no, no, no I'm telling you, you can go and change right now I went, I clicked on their thing And then it said, pick seats And I'm like, here it is I could change again if I wanted to But right now I'm locked in No, I can't change it, I've already Well, go look at it No, it won't let me change it I've already gone past that point It didn't even offer to let me change it Oh, mine says request or change seats And I've been changed We're not sitting together now This is terrible, come on It's your fault, Justin Why'd you change your seat? Because I wanted the window I didn't need the window For nighttime? I didn't give you the window But if you get up to her to the bathroom I will still your seat That's true, he did it He's like, I've taken your seat now And then I'll be like I can still change They'll still offer me all sorts of I did it by my phone I went to my phone I clicked on the email they sent me And then it led me to Being able to do this Where? I clicked on the flight I know, I already did my check-in though No, I had already gone through I'd gotten through to all the boarding pass stuff Oh, I didn't do all that Did you print something? No, but I emailed it to myself I gotta still go stand the line Can you email it to your phone? Use the QR code And email it to your smartphone It's the box It's the scrambly box I just have to wait 45 minutes Before I can check into my flight Fada, I don't know What do you mean each of the young innovators shows? We're not gonna be sitting together now If you don't I have no idea I sent you an email Fada With as much as I know I sent you an email with all the stuff I know at this point in time If something is broadcast through the YouTube channel Which it's very likely It will go to twisword.live automatically That will just happen Because that's part of the live channel thing I don't know if we're gonna use Periscope That'll probably happen if nothing else works Quick question If I just do a screen Screenshot of it I don't know As a picture of the squiggly line thing If you do a screenshot It should work But You should try to email it to yourself If it all possible I'll do that too Just in case sometimes they want it to be bigger Or something But the screenshot should work fine Yeah What are our plans?  Oh my gosh You guys You haven't seen this image But I just have to send you I don't know if it is Sinked to my account I sent it to Twitter But Okay, that hasn't gone there Maybe I'll find my Twitter tweet Twitter tweet Twitter tweet account There it is Okay Here's the picture So for I have to figure out how to get This backdrop That we're going to be using For the stage To Philadelphia Right It's actually rather large Yeah Yeah It's actually rather large It's actually rather large It's actually rather large Yeah It's bulky A bit bulky It was mailed to me rolled up Around a cardboard tube And then wrapped in some stuff And taped And I could just wrap it up And tape it again And check it as an odd size Piece of baggage probably Uh-huh That's one idea Or I can try folding it up And then it'll be And putting it in my suitcase It'll be all wrinkled It'll have lines in it then But do we care? Well, you can air it out on Friday The second we get to our hotel Yeah And it'll be out for Probably like at least 12 hours That way So that'll be fine Yeah Yeah, okay Maybe Okay I'm just trying to figure out How to get it Iron It's canvas It's like all plastic Yeah So I'm trying to So my suitcase My Packing My suitcase Is going to contain This It's going to contain The table runner Uh-huh I'm going to bring The Mevo An extra iPad to run the Mevo Um I'm going to bring Also the MiFi So that we can have A spare Right Internet connection I'm What else am I bringing Oh The audio recorder For Recording stuff Just in case Um And then I have To fit my clothes In there Right This is all going to be In a carry on And My backpack I'm going to make this happen I can do this Oh yeah And my laptop I have to bring my laptop Yeah And a couple of cell phones I'm going to bring An extra cell phone Also For just in case Recording live streaming We'll see It's going to be fun Um Yeah So what are we doing on Friday? So Friday The schedule is going to be Uh We arrive In Philadelphia Um Hopefully We'll get to the hotel And they will Let us go into the hotel And take a nap For a couple of hours It'll be great Yeah Hopefully they'll let us Come in a little early As opposed to You know Three o'clock I'm going to Give them a call tomorrow And find out Um And then From noon I think it's Friday From noon until What time was it? Young innovators La la la La la la That's not where they sit Young innovators Fair this weekend When we count down Um Noon to 8 p.m So anywhere between noon And 8 p.m We can go And set up And check out How things work Uh huh So I don't know If our booth Will already be set up For us It should be I guess Uh huh Yeah So I'm thinking In the afternoon On Friday After we've napped And lunched Uh huh Relaxed We'll go in And um And check it all out And then be out of there Before 8 o'clock Get some dinner Uh huh Have an adult beverage Uh huh Go to sleep Get up in the morning Get back to the fair By 9 a.m Uh huh I actually Probably want to get there About By no later than 8.45 p.m On Saturday Which is 5.45 San Francisco Island time Yeah We're so messed up It's gonna be crazy I I envision A lot of coffee And red bull in my future Yes I was having a espresso machine Near our stage I know Yeah Maybe part Maybe Friday also Friday also Will be Gathering Things like Red Bull and And double shots Yeah Caffeinated beverages And provisions A bag of snacks Yes Trail mixes Trail mixes Exactly Pretzels Oh Snyder you're good A towel between the iron And the banner That's right We could do that Oh yeah And if Justin Packs light I could probably I could put things In his suitcase There you go He's probably Just bringing his Police box I know I know I bought some luggage I'm gonna be Proper like wheels And the whole thing Meanwhile I usually have luggage But I'm gonna try To not use luggage Because I'm running around Philadelphia on Monday And having luggage with me Is gonna be A bit of a pain Eric Thank you so much for that Yeah If I hope the Alaska flight Attendance leave us alone I mean they're gonna It's either going to be Benadryl and whiskey Oh no Or an Ambien Good night Kiki I'm probably just Gonna take Tylenol p.m. Yeah I just need to make sure I actually fall asleep I did not think of this In advance Actually going to sleep So that I can wake up When the plane lands And say Are we still in This is a wonderful New time zone I'm so Sleeping beauty So white but I think that even if You slept perfectly For the entire red-eye flight You would not sound like that Because You're only in the air For about six hours And you're gonna You're not gonna sleep Perfectly during that time And it's gonna take you A minute to go to sleep So Best case You're getting like Five hours sleep Yeah Best case Five hours sleep Oh dear Gonna be crazy Yeah Try to go to bed early On Friday night also Napping I'm going to bed early So, oh Well everything we haven't Talked about Which we might want to do On a fast We can talk about Things off air Okay you guys What are we doing What are we doing We got plans We got a Things are happening Things are happening Things are happening You're comfortable with me Just walking into blindly And being able to pull off I'm totally good with it We have time to talk about All this stuff on Friday I put a A sheet in our rundown That you can put stories in Ideas for segments into Okay Ahead of time And then we can take this On Friday Over an adult beverage And reorganize it And schedule it into Segments Like I'm thinking If we break up We'll try And there are going to be A lot of Amazing people At this event And I think If we run Or have at least One of us Running around And grabbing people And bringing them up on stage For interviews And question asking That'll be one aspect of it And then we'll have I think areas of conversation We can use stories as Conversation starters But things like The story that you talked about Tonight, Justin On the fossils found in Morocco It would be neat to talk about 300,000 years ago What other Hominids were Walking around the planet Kind of go through The human history conversation We could talk a lot about The whole out of Africa thing And what evidence Has maybe popped up To make us think certain things I was thinking Because we're going to be Lacking a lot of it I found a couple of stories About sleep Related to sleep That would be fun About the science of sleep And bring in stories And anything related to space We'll just have a bunch of stories And links that we can kind of The new space We can talk about SpaceX And Virgin And all that kind of stuff We can I don't know Split it up And have like An astronomy hour Have a human physiology hour Have an animal behavior hour Have, you know Mix it up Mix it up Mix it up And take some breaks Every once in a while And grab people From the fair So And that'll help fill it up Are we going to have a monitor To share things? Yes, we will So we can have a laptop Hooked up to a monitor So there is a thing That was shared out to me That is a I can figure out what it's called But it's a video contest For young scientists And they're still taking public Votes for it And That might be a cool thing to Screen Absolutely It seems appropriate Yeah So it's for the Bay Area It's a local one But it's a climate change And climate science video contest For teens That sounds awesome And the voting is through Like the 12th or the 13th So actually people could still vote If they watched it at our thing That's a great idea So we could certainly do that Yeah I like it That's good So the schedule I think Is something that we will specifically Yeah, we can talk about Ed, great, new NASA astronaut class Yeah There were some really interesting Stories that came out this week That I just plopped on social media So I'll have access to them that way But there were stories There were a few stories about Hearing in different animal species And new discoveries in that this week And then there was also a really Interesting story about light pollution And we talk about light and noise pollution All the time Yeah I think common themes to things That we talk about on the show We can bring them in And if we ever just get in a rut We'll just pull out a story And talk about it Yeah I may just be constantly Pop-quizzing the audience We can do audience pop-quizzes Every once in a while I think it'd be fun also To do What is science done for me Lately? Quizzes Just go around and get people to Come up with things that science has done For them That's great Yeah That's a nice one We could talk a little bit about How to locate a credible source Absolutely I get on my Teenage volunteers about that all the time Talking about being a skeptic And how to figure out where sources Get their information So we could definitely do A quick crash course And that might be fun Absolutely And we can Maybe bring up part of What is it? The skeptics toolbox Or some of those websites That talk about arguments Of logical fallacy How to recognize Logical fallacies In arguments I love it Yeah, that's all part of that I can even take some time I'll sit down and talk about Bird brains Yeah And if we're interested We can talk about food science We can talk about Yeah We have options We can talk about it on Friday for sure Yeah What I really want to do is Friday I'll be there Getting the booth set up Making sure everything's done Then I want to see who's around And maybe grab people And be like, hey, you want to come by For an interview tomorrow? You know, kind of Nudge people Find out who's around Yeah, that sounds great Yeah I think we can fill up We can do it Eight hours of podcasting We did Twistmageddon Oh, no problem It's really nice having that under our belts Because it does make it feel like It'll be fun Everything is better than a 21-hour show, isn't it? Yeah And here's an option If the internet is holding up And we can do a hangout From where we are I don't know how it would work exactly If we could make it work But if we could do a hangout From where we are We could even invite people to join us Yeah, we just have to have a speaker system Yeah, that's what I'm worried about I'm not really sure They're like, you don't have to worry about it We're just going to have everything for you All you have to bring are your laptops I'm like, really? Okay And I'm just bringing my power cord Yeah Definitely bring your power cord But I don't need anything else, right? I don't need any other hookups Or bring your laptop Well That's what the power cord is for And so we're going to wear our twist shirts So I don't need to worry about packing Special clothes for that Yeah, no No special clothes, just twist shirts Yes, please try to bring me a t-shirt Okay I will do that Okay Yeah If we can see twist.org The chat room could ask questions Yeah, I mean, if we could I mean, we can always open up the chat room But it all depends on whether or not The internet situation allows us to live stream Which is what I'm really concerned about But we're a podcast So regardless, I can record it Which is good And at any point If you just want me to vamp about Anything particular relating to animals I'll be good to go Exactly Why don't you tell us About different types of mammal skulls Two hours later Hey Blair, do you think animals are intelligent? No Give me examples of animals not being intelligent then What are some of the other things that they do? Right Yeah, so yeah It'll be fine Yeah It will Hey Snyder We, I don't know if I've had Fraser I have done work with Fraser before I think we've had him on the show Once, a long time ago I think But we don't, yeah, we don't And I've had Pam LeGae on the show Once, but we Yeah, we don't work with them regularly We could We could do more collaboration I do know Fraser and Pamela though So that would be fun Ponderful puns Oh, ponderful Right now I'm a video podcast That's right, hot rod Okay, we can talk about astronauts Okay There's some, I mean, seriously Stick us in chairs next to each other For eight hours To talk about science Yay It's gonna be amazing I don't ask you if the Great Barrier Reef is dead That'll probably start yelling Yeah, oh, and we can talk about We can talk about the science of climate change And we can talk about ocean acidification And we can talk about, you know How we know ocean acidification is taking place And what the problems are For species living in the ocean And then, you know, even the stories That we talked about on the show tonight Your marine eco preserve story And how does that tie in With carbon sequestration I mean, that's like a half hour conversation Easily Easily Easily I mean, I do a 90 minute presentation For volunteers at the zoo On how to talk about climate change And that's just how That's just how to talk about it There's lots of opportunities And we can talk to Justin about The psychology of selling cars There's none involved That's not true, the glasses No psychology Um, okay Nothing to see here Move along, everybody Recognizing I'm probably gonna wake up at 5 tomorrow And then red eye the day after that I'm still gonna pack everything now I'm gonna pick up a child as soon as I wake And then I'm gonna be almost directly to the airport And I want you guys to know I found the monkey cat before anybody else did Yes, that's a monkey cat There's a monkey cat I just looked a bunch Trying to find information about the bay cat And apparently they knew that the bay cat existed In like the 1800s And it's They know the exact genus and species And they actually know the exact date at which it diverged From the common cat lineage Which is very interesting Where'd that one go? I really wish though That it was called the bay cat You know like B-A-E Bay You're my bay cat This monkey cat looks so sad Oh no, monkey cat Not like bananas Sad monkey cat Okay enough of the monkey cat Okay you guys, let's go You guys sleep, pack, do the things you need to do I will see Justin We'll see you tomorrow Give me a text When you are leaving And Estimated landing time Or a flight number So I can track it I think I might have it in here somewhere Yeah that would be good Because then I can maybe pick you up at the airport And then we'll take a car Back Yeah Yeah that'll work great And then Blair We will track your I have your flight information Because you sent that to me so I will I will track Your flight And if you're landing Approximately same time That hour window Justin and I will hang out Get a coffee Have breakfast type stuff If our stomachs aren't too upset And then we'll hang out For an hour or so And we'll see you at the airport If not, we'll see you at the hotel But I will text you Yeah, we have telephone We have telephones to coordinate But that's the plan as far as it's going right now Yeah It's actually happening I'm really excited I have a very large twist banner Hooray That's all you need Step 1 branding Step 2 profit Step 2 Do something Step 3 profit Alright you guys Thanks Snyder Thanks for everyone watching tonight I hope we do have a safe trip We all want to get there safely And have fun in the process And hopefully we'll talk to a lot of young innovators Young Budding inspired Scientists And we'll be inspired by them That's what I'm looking forward to Yeah Adrian We'll link to it on twist.org If you want to We missed all the links earlier Ed, she was a great guest She's wonderful And everyone in the chat room Voted that she should be a guest host At some point in the future I thought she was great too Alright Goodnight everybody Say goodnight Blair Goodnight Blair Goodnight Justin Goodnight Kiki Goodnight Kiki