The best kind of doors are the doors. You have to explain welcome welcome to unhinged today We have a very special guest mr. Vinnie. Okay. Are you ready for the next one? Oh, yeah To the under there's not a lot to look at you probably walk past many buildings that look exactly like this setup But there's a couple of security vulnerabilities that are pretty accessible for someone that does know what to do In these kind of situations anyone with a screwdriver can disassemble most of that out there and have access to the wiring That's a pretty big one and the aesthetics are what initially caught my eye here You know frankly it looks like someone just kind of dug through their trunk and oh, you know, whatever connectors I have Let's send it. Let's use that this is bad how they stacked the one side there And you know that's not a whole lot of room to work with there But there's definitely a more creative way to do that yeah Like why did the reader like come on or maybe the reader is the only one centered with the pillar and the other ones Are off-center. Ah, you can even see there's like holes right here where add the older system Like use the existing holes or I don't try to cover it somehow. Oh boy. Yeah, it's ugly That's a word I teach my daughters we don't just throw around but that is an ugly setup here And like you said the vulnerability if I'm looking at the right side of it here now I mean that's two joints right there You can pop right out with a standard, you know fill ups or even a flathead screwdriver a knife A coin have access to the wiring in there. You throw a skimmer in there, right? What are the odds this is osdp or end of the line resisted like 0.00 1% chance that's No, that was wired weekend a long time ago. I'm guessing Yeah, there's a whole lot of issues there, you know, at least they got the operator button down at a normal height That's almost centered I mean it's tough to tell because everything else is a little off-center crooked At least that's not, you know, absurdly high or anything But from a security breaching standpoint, I mean having access to all that wiring there on really both of them for an access control system You're kind of defeating the purpose of it there. I mean, that's probably an eight or nine. I would say are these two different buildings? Yeah, they're both Similar or issue and they're both found on the same morning This was I was in Denver at Xcelerize each morning whenever I travel just so everyone knows I like to get up a little earlier grab some coffee and like walk around the city Get some like sunshine get my body flowing, especially if there's time before the actual event starts But yes, obviously if you're walking around downtown anywhere, you're gonna find a door fell in some way or another So just go outside and walk around and you'll find some The aesthetics alone of this, you know, really are cringe worthy to look at here because as an installer I mean, there's so many times where we go to, you know, an older building an older brick building or something And you know, they know exactly where they want something and you know, you walk through it first like, oh, that's impossible You know, you're gonna have to use conduit for that But then you actually, you know, start looking above ceilings, being walls and everything You realize there's usually a route to get the wire there and stuff I'm sure this was preventable if they took the time to do it right and frankly if I came out as the client I would not be handing anyone a check for this when signed off on this, right? Someone said that is okay when it's not okay. I'm with you aesthetically Going back to your customers experience. These are both were like apartment mixed-use buildings You've got people using this credential every day and that's leading to their experience And if you start your day with this like I'm actually gonna have a bad day, right? Like you might not be thinking about it But subconsciously that is affecting you. Oh, absolutely It affects us because we know better, right? Like we twitch when we see this kind of stuff Even the normal non-door hardware nerd person, they're affected by this and they don't even realize it It's just, you know, for me if I'm watching the football game and I'm like, oh my god I forgot to cut a tie wrap at that last job. I'll physically I'll lose sleep over forgetting something like that If something's not, you know, aesthetically the best I could do with it On the right hand side is like everything off center because like the big box looks off center The hid reader in it looks off center that look at the mortar line and then the conduit looks like it's saggy It definitely eyeballed that one. They did not get their level out for that one They're like, ah, it looks okay if you hold your head like this I don't see anything actually unless it's around the corner. I don't see anything actually securing any of that to the wall I don't see a strap unless they put one in the lb. They're probably a sheet rock screw somehow There could be some kind of tie down maybe right there. Is that what you were talking about? Yeah, around the corner, there could be something but I mean, I don't see anything even really holding that there They always picture a kid walking by and pulling on something. That's, you know, the right height for it there too I just it doesn't seem very secure.  I'm hoping they would have tried to level it first judging by what they used I doubt it, but if they did, you know, you could tell it's either just come down with time or someone pulling on it Yeah, and then the one on the left here. I can't tell what that is there I mean, it's two different connectors or if that's just bare wire going across to it after I really can't tell Yeah, that part looks bare that is posed wire like literally there's the red wire. There's the yellow wire There's white and black right in there. Hmm. I wonder what you could do with that Yeah, that's a nine for me. It's not like those wires communicate everything back to your axis control panel and like No, but it's still visible. I mean someone who wants to just be a punk can walk by and snip it I mean, there's a very easy solutions for this one. You initially install it I mean think about it.  So you're giving this a nine Yeah, I thought this was the same building at first to be honest I didn't know if maybe we had like a front door back door type thing different doors But like similar idea like easily accessible wire aesthetically. It's not great It's almost like they were trying to be creative. It's an art installation See, I put a lot of weight on the aesthetics of it because someone walks by and sees that and they assume that that's You know, how we all do it. It really takes away from the value of investing in security and access control and cameras Anything that devalues the industry as a whole as you know, doesn't help any of us. Yeah I mean, there's one thing that not a lot of people understand I think we've talked about it in a couple previous episodes But there's these skimmers that you can get you can get like 20 of them for 40 bucks off of If you're able to slice that into that wire, which there's people that can do it very quickly You can watch youtube on how to do it. That's scary, right? You are literally getting these people's information Like it could be the most secure credential in the world and you're still getting their read Then you can make a credential or create a credential off of that Not only do you have access to the building you have access to that person's house If there's access control on their apartment complex, right? It could be from a security vulnerability if someone was like trying to stalk someone And they were able to get that kind of information that makes me a little nervous And you just told them how to do it Yes, and so you know If you see this no, I am all about There is a vulnerability people got to know about it because the bad guys are already going to know about it If we're just now talking about it There is pages and pages on reddit or on like the dark web or something like that where people understand The vulnerabilities here where I was reactive and we shouldn't be we should be proactive But just so you know if your apartment building is set up like this maybe talk with your property manager Yeah, absolutely. I didn't realize those skimmers were that cheap.  You're just teaching people how to do it the people already know how to do it if we're talking about on link There's already too late. Well, that's the thing if more people knew about I mean Maybe this installer would have been more careful about keeping the wiring, you know hidden Not even having the conduit out there and you know to begin with but if he did You know having it, you know secured and not having wires hanging out on the left side there It's possibly didn't know more likely may not have cared or you know some kind of hybrid of both But now I agree that vulnerabilities should definitely be made aware to prevent stuff like this Yeah, I mean both of these potentially could have some kind of smart credential on there Some very secure like seos or desfire my fair desfire, but it doesn't matter if your wiring isn't secure Like they can get that information. Something tells me if this is what they've invested in for the access control installation They probably have not invested in a smart credential. Yeah, you're probably right. This probably just prox and Mia What do you think? Yeah, it's a nine. It should be a 10. It's critical. It's just vulnerable. That's it life safety We don't know enough about the opening to judge that there's zero on the life safety But yeah, the security vulnerability is fix them now I'm with you. Maybe life safety was involved in some aspect or another it'd be a 10 But I'm thinking eight or nine but nine probably because the aesthetics as well Like if it was just the exposed wire or the easily accessible wire, that's big But the fact that you didn't level on you think have pride in your words respect We joke about trunk slammers all the time And that's all I could think of looking at this is they you know got it up quick and threw the tools in the trunk and sped off I think this even has like the price tag from where they bought it at home If you want to be featured on a future episode of unhinged or if you have a picture to submit You can email me at mia at door hardware nerds.com. Thanks for watching