There's been a lot of questions asked about the man here in Dallas that has Ebola and the apartment that he lived in and whether that apartment where he was safe for so long, if that was still contagious. How many days later is it still contagious? That story intrigued me and I have to mention it now. It intrigued me when I saw it on TV that for one family, one person's infection, you had the fire force, you had the big cleaning agent, even the cars were all covered. Then I said, I wonder how people feel if they were in Sierra Leone. When even we can count the number of doctors we have, we don't have up to 200 doctors in a country like Sierra Leone. We don't have up to 500 midwives or nurses. We don't even have, let's say 40% or 60% of free town, we don't have pipeable water. Yes. We don't have, if our government doesn't have enough personal protective care, they don't have enough of these barrier teams to go around. I wonder how if Americans went to Sierra Leone and they were told the treatment center where they are treating these patients. With nothing. It was amazing when I saw that story. For one person, Pompeo resources for the whole country, for Liberia, for let's say the four countries that are being involved, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Nigeria. That's just something to think about. But yet I think that we are told that the quarantine must last for 21 days. The house should be fumigated and closed after 21 days before it can be feel safe. Our people stay in their homes with nobody knowing whether they can eat and they say they are quarantined. They don't have enough water, they don't have enough food. In a family with maybe like 10 in one household. It's amazing, isn't it? It is amazing. Yes. Does the virus have outside of the body? In the contamination of a home, moisture on the toilets, on the handles of the sinks and things like that, doorknob, how long would it take for that virus to disintegrate or to die? I think it lives longer in moisture. And the longer it stays in moisture, it can last for days. But as long as it's dry, and if you use like the chemicals, the chlorine, it kills the virus. So the lady that was in that, that's affected, she did say she was using Clorax to clean the surfaces in her house. For us, we just quarantine people for 21 days and assume that it's always well after. And we have not had any reports yet that people after the quarantine have had episodes or have been infected. They actually would test everyone who is quarantined for the virus. Yes, you can be reinfected. If you expose yourself again, surely you'll be reinfected. But you will have more antibodies then. Because your body, because your body develops antibodies, makes the person to be well to survive the infection. You see, I am comparing this with HIV. If we look back at HIV, we have the same methods, most of transmission, not so. We have the same messages we are giving for HIV. The only difference with HIV is the sweat. Because nobody had told us that sweat carries HIV virus. But in this case, sweat carries Ebola virus. And that means you can contract it through the pores of your skin if you can go through sweat. Because sweat comes through from the pores of your skin. You see, that's the only difference. But it is hemorrhagic, just like HIV is transmitted through body fluids. And if you are careless about vomit or feces or semen and that, you will get it. It's the same thing with Ebola. You see, that is the barrier. They go and pick the bodies up. And with no family members, take the bodies away. To an unknown grave. So when we did the training, the bishops and the leaders, the religious leaders, they said we have to make a representation to governments. To allow the religious leaders to at least accompany the barrier team to where their members are laid. So that they can say a prayer. They do not have to touch the, because this is bad twice. The first would spray the body, then they bag it once, then spray, then they bag it a second time before it's taken. So it's really like fumigated before the person is taken to the grave. But it's like a common grave. Those who've been on the internet and have seen it, you may have seen the grave. I was very upset when I saw that grave, because it's like common grave. You see, that too has its own implications. Because getting so many corpses in one area, and we have our weather system, the rains, the rainy season, and the major means of survival is farming. I'm just thinking of tomorrow, what is going to be the other implications of this. So we had made that appeal that the leader, the religious leader, to whichever denomination that person belong, be allowed and ground and prepared to follow so that at least they can identify where the person is laid. That started to be done. Understanding in Liberia, they are cremating each and every one of those bodies. Yes, which is sensible. So you do not have that tomorrow, yes sir. Are there cultural customs that would discourage the cremation? Yes, yes. This is why Sierra Leone is so buried. But the ideal for Ebola patient corpses is to be burned. Because I read somewhere, somebody gave me the information that when they had Ebola epidemic in Uganda, in one of the villages they had to burn, even the houses. And that was how they were able to get rid of the virus from that community. But our cultural beliefs sometimes plays a part in the way we live and the way we address responses. These are victims. Those are the recent victims of Ebola. The gentleman is a medical doctor, also a medical doctor I understand from Uganda was working with UN. And this is an RN, a registered professional nurse. She passed. She even took this picture as you can see in the world. And she too died to Ebola. To date, I'm sure lost over 150 health workers in Sierra Leone to Ebola. We've had lost four doctors in a country where you don't have up to 100 doctors. So that's a big challenge. Now what are the effects of Ebola on us? Health wise, I don't have to explain that. It's devastating. People are not healthy. People are not having enough food. They're just barely surviving. There's not enough water supply. There's not enough food. Most people are depending on those who have families that taste like America. Those of you who have family who has relieving hands, I'm sure you are getting calls.  When you quarantine a family and you just go around and give them a bowl of soup. And tell that family of five to wash their hands 15 times a day. And they cannot even afford chlorine to put in their water. So we just say wash your hands any time. You use the bathroom. Develop, increase the culture of washing hands. Increase the culture of taking care of your personal hygiene. The children are talking about that. Unfortunately, there's no economies going on. Almost all the companies, their staff have left. And left us. Except those countries that have now sent health workers to help us with the epidemic. So economy is at a standstill. Even the local markets where people take their vegetables. The community people find they bring their vegetables, their bananas, their pepper which they sell to survive has been stopped since June. People are not even visiting themselves. Social impact. We can't, we don't allow guests to come to us anymore in our houses because we are not sure what they have.  Yes. Somebody will call and say, I want to visit you. No, don't visit me yet. Then when the government shut down the whole country, made it even worse. And they don't have enough resources to go around to give every family food that had been shut down.  That stopped. Even when the people died, they had corpses, they will call the hotline 117 and it will take like two days before they come to clear the corpse from the home. Socially, we are very antisocial of late. Yes, we are visiting people.  You see, they have arrived. And you are welcome. But no, not anymore. Even in vehicles, taxes, the government says, taxes must take only three people at any one time. And the fear cost is so high. How can a business person use, instead of taking five, says three. For one trip, one in front of the car, two on either side of the window, one person on either side of the window. For buses, you can only take six. So all that has grounded the whole economy. So when government says we are shutting down, we have already shut down before government shuts us down. I even got a call this morning. It's like I'm here but I'm working. I have to give supervision. I have to give ideas. I have to give input. This is why the church took the owners now to go from community to community. So anywhere where they have shut down the districts, the church sends teams to those districts to identify the homes that have been quarantined, the communities that have been quarantined to provide them with basic food, basic soap, you know, give them those buckets and teach them where they cannot give enough, they will tell them, okay, if you have a bowl, you can put a bowl here, put a cup and be using that cup to wash your hands. Because we go very basic. We go very basic in our thoughts. So the education forgets it. Schools have been closed since June. Schools and colleges in all these countries have been closed since June. And this is, we're almost, we're in October. So there's no education. There's no university education. The children are at home and imagine young people at home are not occupied. Forget about television. We don't have that. We don't even have electricity. Those who are fortunate to have generators, fear is about six or seven dollars a gallon. How much? When I'm home, I use a gallon a day and it's only for four hours. That's electricity I am. That's what I can provide. So sometimes when people email me and I don't respond like two days, we wonder where Beatriz is. They don't even know I don't have electricity for that day. Sometimes the office, we don't have electricity. So those are some of the issues we're dealing with in Sierra Leone. We look to you. We are looking forward to you, the church. We want the pastors to speak about Ebola. We want every church to speak about Ebola in Sierra Leone and West Africa. That is the only way. We hope and we are praying. We continue to pray. In all our hospitals, they pray every morning before work starts for this epidemic to be controlled. Because it has actually dealt with the very fabric of not only the individual but our social life, every aspect of life Ebola has touched. So we are looking to this Almighty God. We know He made us. So we just believe that one day God will help us to be able to control these menace in our communities. Please help us to stop Ebola. Whatever resources you have, send it to UNCO, United Methodist Committee on Relief, of the General Board of Global Ministries. It will be received. If you want to designate it to any country, it will be used for that country. If you want me to know, if you go on the website, my email is there. If you want any information about me, you ask the general, even UNCO, because I work directly with Ted Warner, they'll be able to give you my information. But I thank all of you. On behalf of the Sierra Leone Conference, United Methodist Church, I thank all of you for all your donations you have been making, for all the input you have made on this program, especially the Imagine No Malaria. Can you imagine, if we didn't have Ebola, can you imagine if an Ebola free Sierra Leone, education would work, children would go to school. They would grow up to hear that there was Ebola and not to see Ebola. Can you imagine, if there was no Ebola, how much economic development would have? We were just being proud to say, oh, we are getting rid of malaria. And then Ebola shows up. So thank you very much for listening. I'll take a seat. Yes. In fact, there are other animals, and the animals did not suffer pain. And did you say animals don't have any antibodies? No, they don't. They don't suffer the disease. So they cannot develop antibodies. Do they die from it? Well, yes. The unfortunate thing, we mentioned about animals, because that's one method of transmission, of eating. So one of the messages that avoid eating any animal, we have you call it bush meat. Yes. Do they have the research that's going to, or what they're doing as far as trying to find the antibody? Yes, here in the western world, in the U.S., in England, in Canada, Italy, they have come up with vaccines which they are trying. They are in trial stages. We haven't heard what the outcome has been. Yes. The vaccine. There's more Ebola in Liberia than Sierra Leone. And so how do you account for that? Well, one, the Ebola is escalated more in Liberia than Sierra Leone currently. Because of some mistakes that have been made. I mean, we have the education, but I don't think they have reinforced the education of not touching, doing hand washing and resources. Those are some of the areas, the availability of resources. We, as soon as it was declared Ebola in Sierra Leone, the first thing our bishop did was to write to all our partners, please don't visit us until the epidemic is under control. I had teams planned to visit me for the health program and I just wrote to the lady, please don't come. I will come. That's how I got myself in the U.S. I would have been back since September. But then it's so escalated, there was no Ebola in Freetown in July. And now Ebola is everywhere. You see, so in Liberia the stories we heard were devastating. There were still gatherings going on and the resources are meagre. You see, I don't know whether they reinforce this no touch or no hugging because they have their own issues and as much as we are so similar in culture, even food each country has their own separate issues. And I think those are some of the things that is... One thing he helped is our bishop you see. He took it serious and got everybody together all the faith-based organizations. We are in education now. We called all of them and said look, when we had the civil war, it was the faith-based organizations that came together and said we cannot continue war. So they said we cannot see Ebola. We cannot allow Ebola to finish our people. So that's how it developed the religious leaders task force for Ebola. And every Muslim every free in Bagh whenever they reach their kutubas the salmon they will mention about Ebola. They will mention something on the prevention we have made big banners and put it in big terms in all the districts. So that even the school children will read what the prevention messages are and take it home. So now this... somebody told me this morning that the like 120 people died yes, this is because the education is reaching the majority of the people because at first people were in denial and they were keeping their sick people home instead of taking them to the treatment centers to the hospitals but now they know that there is treatment there is some care available so people are now coming forward and taking their people and losing people still but it's better than when they were kept home and they were infected the whole lot of the others. But now they need more money but now we have to have isolation centers in our hospitals we just have holding centers like one room where any suspect can be put there till the person is taken to the nearest treatment center we need like vehicle vehicles from those hospitals so that at least when you have a suspect, you don't sit and wait for government you just take that person straight to the nearest treatment center which we shot in the time you will keep the person in the hospital I was here one morning and they called me sister we have a gentleman who has worked to kiss the hospital I said he's been exposed to Ebola he thinks he's been infected so I said to him where is he right now so they said he's at the gate I said keep him at the gate please don't allow him to call into the hospital then we sent one of the nurses the midwives they took the infrared thermometer which you can use without touching the person they did his temperature they called 117 hotline and he told you that man they took his blood and we made a referral that's the kind of thing we have been doing because if he had gone into that hospital and if he had proved to be positive serious this is a hospital where you can have over 100 people coming in there per day to be seen so those are the issues we need a lot of support because there's hunger now because Ebola is not killing us but the hunger is killing us we need vehicles to be able to transfer we need basic medications and even there because those I could make only use once so you need more almost all the time yes sir I'm overwhelmed and I honestly I don't know how to help specifically I mean definitely I'm going to bring this up in church but what specifics can I do to help? if you have you can raise funds it's better you raise funds and send it to Unko instead of getting physical materials because if you send these materials to Unko the shipment because they too play for shipment but if you send funds they can collect what we need and they get it in one shipment and get us those personal protective gears were shipped by air yes they were shipped by air because if it had gone by sea it would take three months so actually donating and if you want you can be specific which country yeah they've got a special fund for Miss Africa I'm going to pick up this flyer the fund number is on the back Hi my name is David Graham I'm originally from Sierra Leone also I live here in the Metroplex I've been here since 1980 I really feel just from listening to how this is going to be a multi approach multi in the sense not everybody who is dying having vomiting is dying from people it's possible people are dying because they're not getting treatment for malaria and typhoid so maybe we really need to have a testing that's what probably is going to be the most efficient way to separate the three diseases the testing aspect once we're able to separate those who are not involved then we'll also need to be able to provide them to help them in typhoid and malaria at least because those people are going to suffocate them to new diseases so the multi-task approach just by listening to how it's nothing like I've read have any insight I live here but the fact that someone is complaining of having Ebola type symptoms which are not Ebola they probably are going to be ignored and then they die we are to reinforce what is said we have had incidents where people have been ignored and they'll go to hospital for even if the person had appendicitis appendicitis and there are no doctors when that person died so we are having deaths for other disease conditions so one of the things I'm glad you mentioned this that we have been asking for is like testing kits testing kits for Ebola testing kits for even malaria so that you can easily test this person you know now they have been tested for HIV we have those that we test people within 20 minutes, half an hour you can know your status so if that comes up you can get those kind of test kits in our hospitals or everywhere so that people can walk in and test because I think this Ebola we are going to end up testing everybody to know their startups for us to be able to control it because people don't know in fact Ebola is even better but HIV you can go with it 3, 4, 5, 6 months there are people who have never tested themselves but they are HIV positive, they are alive but with Ebola it doesn't take you up to 21 days so the sooner you can get yourself tested then you have the rest of men then you start doing things to prevent yourself really infecting yourself or infecting any other person I think we are going to come to that to be able to really actually control so that if we have test kits or means of testing in each of our hospitals and our health centers and have people trained so as soon as you walk in somebody will come to you dressed up properly and give you the education, don't be afraid of me because I am wearing this, I just want to help you let me just do your blow then within 20 minutes you come back and say, oh you are okay but then give you that post test education like we did for HIV, I think that will be a big plus we did such an effective job as the non-advented church as you have said to help with the Magical Malaria campaign and we were on the floor point of that in the North Texas conference and how we disseminated that information to our individual churches to help get this information out it was so helpful and I see if we took and built upon what we have done with that and had like a a poster that gave bullet points of what the problems are and then gave an effective way for a person in the congregation and just like a net cost ten dollars, it saves lives some of the congregation gets that if you have a poster or something like we need prevention so what we need for prevention here is a bucket rather than filling it up with supplies imagine here's what it cost to have a provided bucket with chlorine for this village that cost X amount of dollars say we need to isolate the sick and say if we bought a testing kit this is what it would cost for a testing kit that's what I can do if you said I want to these people are now starving that's a bullet point to help people not starve what does corn meal and protein powder cost to help a family that's isolated in their home survive now I've given my congregation tools and dollar points to see how they can give and say we're going to give this through UMCORP yes we can work with UMCORP gave us this just for for materials let me just emphasize in church as a whole global you just don't know how much power we have over these governments I really feel if not Texas for example we'll get the information to New York that we must pressure the government of Syria we'll have to insist on that trust me UMC government is very powerful in Syria we have to take that forcefulness to action and say why don't we have a month designated as a testing month the whole month of this month you've got to do it Syria the government you have to do it we'll have the manpower we'll have to train the manpower and let's test everybody in December for example and we will start to eliminate and decrease the people who are not affected and hopefully there will be a follow up but the UMC church again I insist can't be involved in politics one way or another issue but the government is not going to budge but trust me when it comes to the United States they'll listen our leaders take that mind it to the government of Syria we believe this will be one approach or whatever will come up with a strategy we've got to approach the government directly just don't leave it to bishops and the masses say yes testing kits I'm sorry I don't have that information but maybe you can get it from like what does it consist of the test kits we have those preventive kits we have the test kits are I mean blood tests they have chemicals and I think I really don't know and in us I know there are chemicals they use in the laboratories yes to test the blood but now I understand there are instant test kits like what you use to test urine those kinds of things which you can put blood on like what you do for HIV you take a drop of blood a small chemical strip something like that I haven't seen it myself since I've been here I've got that information and the Chinese have opened a huge treatment center and I understand they are testing people for less than an hour and they're getting results so I cannot even say that it's true or it's not I'm a nurse I believe in seeing I'm observing myself to be able to confirm but it is happening yes so I'm sure if you went on the website when I came I was in Indiana having meetings with for Kisi Hospital and one of the ladies was on the internet and she said oh I think they can have instant test kits for Ebola so where is it but we got distracted so those of you who are who know technology and can solve I'm sure you'll be able to provide those information for us for the costing honestly I cannot say if the basic items like food like rice we know 50 kilograms of rice is 50 dollars equivalent now it used to be 20 but now it's 50 because it's 200,000 yes we know all the basic condiments everything has come up because of the scarcity you see so for now we cannot I cannot give you costs but there are conferences who would normally send containers of milk some rice North Carolina did that recently they worked with stop hunger project Indiana and they have sent a container from their home but sometimes it's a challenge to even clear those containers once they get to sell them this is what we are saying it's much easier for you here if you get the money send it through umko they can release it to us when they release it to us then we can provide them locally because it's a challenge we need to send containers another concern I have is the barrier because thinking about the future we don't want another project so I don't know how we can approach this if people can come together talk to the president do something about it yes this is one issue that is being thought about as I speak the religious leaders are looking at that some of the Muslims would follow their member to where they are buried some people have had the opportunity to dictate to the barrier team that I want this person to be laid here instead of being taken this is why it's important that the person or the family know and the family be allowed to participate and to have a say into what happens to the remains of their loved ones but that discussion is on because I strongly really would think it would be better for us to commit than to continue the barrier can you imagine we are very nearly a thousand people and we will look at the geographical end of the year it's so small yes yes many is not a question it's a question that I have just been asked and thank you very much for that wonderful information I must confess that the pain and the pain so I think there needs to be some bit of specification because you say like you said that some health is needed which generally but and you can how can we try to specify that one of the ways that health can be seen is by finding the instant testing kit but then if I had it clearly the instant testing kit is not yet confirmed if it is there or not I'm not saying I'm confirmed but what I'm saying is what it felt like it sounded to be an appealing way of one of the appealing way of attracting health and since it's not very clear if it is there or not what I'd like to suggest is can we please if we can confirm those people what could try to claim that it is in existence and try to find out if it is there how helpful is it that's why I said I want to be sure if it is there those who want to channel their funds to us that can use so because maybe I don't think that before I can donate I need to know what I'm donating what am I donating for what will my funds which channel will my funds be taken is it the testing kit is it the food is it the medicine is it the medical care workers that will help I think you're very right thank you very much for that input I could not say that's why I said some items those things can be got in country because if you look at now this is a serious situation and the quicker we get things to us the better the better the results will be I have heard that there are instant tests and I have heard that the Chinese are using but we have to confirm there is somebody in my office who is deputizing me and they spoke to her this morning and they give me on daily basis the things that they need and they were saying sister if we can get test kits we can do and they train us we are nurses who can be able to test other than depending on laboratories because the blood tests take at least two days if there is an instant test like HIV you can just do a single treat within 20 minutes the person knows then you move the person on you are quite right this is what even Unko is telling us that as we get the needs we make a list of what we cannot get in country and they can get from out here and sent to us but it can be done in a bulk these PPEs were sent to us by air not by boat because if they are sent by boats they will still be on the high seas by now but now every unit has those PPEs and the nurses are using so you are quite right my sister thank you for that contribution that's what you are talking about my name is Fonze Hamble I am president of sisters of serials and these members of sisters of serials who have been in Unko for 17 years since the war but I have a question mission is ending this list women and children victimized by the war but yesterday somebody was telling us that on interfaith service that all the kids the orphans who have lost parents to this disease are just out all over there is nobody to take care of them how can we reach these kids when this is different from what you just saw no, it's not different it's all part of that discussion I'm glad you brought it up because we deal with mothers pregnant women we deal with lactating mothers we deal with all the fives and I told you about the incident of the grandmother who took the two children to Punjab to do that you can come through you can go through the United Methodist Conference we have the women's coordinator we have a regional nationality who works with the women we have who is the women's coordinator and of course my office I'm dealing with health generally either one of us we can be able to identify because one of the things that we need to do is to identify the locations of these children that have been offered by Ebola we have a program called vulnerable children's program in Kisi Hospital where we are supporting children who lost their parents to HIV you see this can be part of that program so that they can identify people who have lost parents to Ebola United Methodist is what you need to follow I'm sure you know that we are in four districts in Sierra Leone we are in the north, eastern province we are in south, we are in the east and of course the western area so we have and most of our smaller units are in the rural setting you see we only have two hospitals in Frita like Rotifung Hospital the only hospital in the chiefdom of 15 smaller sections you see Rotifung and lots of you from Sierra Leone have heard about Rotifung Rotifung has been resurrected it's been rehabilitated we have a medical doctor stationed at Rotifung and what is going on we have a medical doctor as I speak and they too have even developed a holding center so those hospitals are centers where people can register to say oh I lost so much this person and it can be easily verified because the workers there are people who live in the communities so they will be able to verify those who have actually lost parents to Ebola but through the women's desk or you go through the health desk or you go through the bishop he's very open he's very health minded I don't I'm never allowed to be careless with the bishop here also how soon can they test the people here who have been exposed or can we just wait and see the people here in the U.S. oh they are tested the young man came he went to hospital he went home after 2 days he went back then he got tested you people test just like that yes they've tested all those people who are who are contact buses and they've got facilities for some lands just like that we've got lyricism on twice a day to take temperature we don't have to start to work in the hospital we can test people we can try to say those are some of the disparities we have we just want we just pray that if we can get like a third of those facilities out there maybe we would have got rid of the same non non as a lay person as a non-medical person I'm just shocked that they left that family in that house for two weeks without doing anything I was I was concerned because I come from a Ebola place and to think that in America somebody had been tested positive and the whole three or four days that home was not visited it was not quarantined because once they take that patient the person out of the home and says to automatically that person that home is quarantined people know that they can't but they are told you cannot go out to go out is meant to be a risk but to say that we kept that woman in that home for three or four days she got visitors because the people must have brought food for her she has friends yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes we can go by the issue of tested if you make it a million A you know testing kit you cannot test kit whether people are going to have years testing kit must be followed by support to stay yes but even if you take it there and you don't train people so can you request But when you can talk to them and they can do it within a day or two to put it down the procedure that this which can be thrown out to us. Yes, amen. About the key. Yes. And do so that you can have all the hospitals, all in the village where they can do your centers, not one, not two, not three, more than that, where we can have testing centers. So the process that it can be done in the whole country, we can do as is suggested to be able to do it in a minute, unless we do the test we cannot know who we are treating. Yes. So if you can do that, we think it can help you. Yes, you, yes. Because I mean, this is money for the clinic everyday. Yes. I think we can do one thing, I think it can work. We said testing. Then we said, we needed like vehicles like ambulance also. Ambulances from those hospitals. So that wherever it's an oldie center, that ambulance is there immediately to take the suspect. So whether I made your bed, survival kits, I would say. Food. No matter how many persons saved, the person has to live. So those are the three. Get a list of knowing who is infected. Get a list of not in that person. So the nearest treatment center. We cannot call them to say, we can do a treatment center. The treatment center intends a whole lot of other things. Because when the staff, you have to keep staff specifically for that. And we don't have that minister. And we don't have the resources to do a treatment. But government has provided treatment centers. But we need to move mobility. To move people from. Which are the points to the nearest treatment center. And as we said, testing kits. So that was actually a major thing. We've already gone over by 30 minutes for our final out. And I know that you're very passionate about this topic. And some of you would like to stay longer and ask more questions. And you are free to do that.  It's going. So thank you very much for coming. And please stay if you'd like to ask more questions. Thank you very much.


Welcome to Conversations with Creative Minds. We have been searching for the meaning of creativity and the role it plays in our daily life. People use creativity to express themselves in different ways, such as writing, painting, poetry, composing music, or innovating new products. Creative minds have never been more relevant than today because of the need to solve our society's dynamic and complex problems. Today, our guest is award-winning at New York Times best-selling author William Martin. He has a rich career spanning decades, including working in the construction industry, Hollywood, and of course, writing some of America's best historical novels. He's been called the king of the historical novel. He's authored 12 novels, Back Bay, Neurovendings, The Rising of the Moon, Cape Cod, Annapolis, Citizen Washington, Harvard Yard, The Lost Constitution, City of Dreams, The Lincoln Letter, Bound for Gold, and of course, his latest book, December 41. It's a thriller. We're here today with William Martin, historical fiction author, and we're going to discuss one of his books, Citizen Washington, about the life of George Washington. Bill, how about giving us an overview of the arc of George Washington's life? Well, they called him first in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen. That was what Parson Weems said about him. And when I wrote George Washington, The Man Who Wouldn't Be King, which was an episode of the American experience on PBS some years ago, I called him first in war, first in peace, the first American to be set in stone. And that is the case with George Washington. However, the arc of his life is far more interesting than that. He isn't, as John Adams once described him, born wearing a powdered wig and a saber, makes a stately bow to his mother and goes off and joins Ben Franklin to win the revolution. And that's a paraphrase of something that John Adams actually said. George Washington was born as the third son of a middling tobacco planter in the Tidewater area of Virginia. He was not the son who was going to inherit anything if there was anything to inherit. And so he began as a young man on the main. As I said in the PBS special, a grasping land hungry young surveyor who would somehow make himself into a general who could win a revolution and then do what no general has had ever done before or has done since, which is that when he got his hands on power, he gave that power up, surrendered it to civilian authorities in order to create, as the Constitution says, a more perfect union. What is the process that leads a man to rise out of relatively humble beginnings to achieve that kind of stature? A stature that is born of acting honorably, acting in a way that we don't often see in politicians these days. And it gets back to, I think, an 18th century concept of reputation. George Washington, like most of the people of the 18th century, believed in the importance of reputation. And just to get started, I want to read you a little passage out of Citizen Washington, which is a novel that is told through 12 different narrators, some of them fictional, some of them historical, who tell their own life stories while telling the story of their encounters and their lifelong relationships with George Washington. Now, this is a character who knew Washington for a long time and didn't particularly like him, but will come to respect him by the time the story is over. It was a small world we moved in, don't forget, and what people thought about you mattered. You might think I don't give two dams for what men think about me, but your reputation means everything. It means more than saying you're good in a fight or rich or smart. It means you have the respect of the men around you. It means you know who you are, and so does everybody else. It means your credit's good. Hell, it means you can say the cows will come home at dawn instead of its sunset, and nobody's going to get up early to prove you wrong. That's kind of a distillation, a colloquial distillation of what reputation meant to all of these people. George Washington throughout the course of the revolution, and we're probably getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. We're not talking about the middle of his life here, but throughout the course of the revolution and throughout his presidency would always understand that he was by then acting for history and for the establishment of precedents that would form, if not actual rules, then guidelines for how future presidents could and should act. And so it's just very interesting to me and always has been as a writer to trace that arc almost from those humble beginnings. He wasn't born in a log cabin the way that Lincoln was, but close to it. And he became, as the King of England would say, King George III after Washington surrendered the army and went home. King George III heard about this and says if Washington can do this, he'll be the greatest man in the world. So kind of his character was developed by his reputation or his reputation and character were intertwined throughout his life. Well, they were, most of the boys who were being educated, and it was mostly young males who were educated, young women would basically taught to read and to knit their world, not ours. Most of the males who went to school and Washington did for a time would be given a book called the rules of civility and decent conversation in, no, the rules of civility and decent behavior in company and conversation. This was a hundred, a book of a hundred rules that had been first written by a group of French Jesuits and it had been translated and everybody had picked up on it as a good way to teach a young man how to begin to build and mold his reputation. This reputation would come from the fact that whether he acted honorably or not, it would come from the way that he conducted himself in business and in his job and in all those other things. And so from the very beginning, Washington was steeped in this idea of reputation. The rules, some of them pretty interesting. Rule number one, of course, is that some small gesture of respect should be made when you enter a room and meet people. That's very good. Rule number two is much more specific and has much more to do with manners. Clean not thy teeth with the tablecloth or fork when seated at the table. If it must be done, use a pick tooth or a toothpick. So that's how the rules bounce back and forth like that. I like rule number six, of course, and I always use it when I'm talking about Washington in front of an audience. Sleep not when others speak. But the most important of those rules is rule number 100, the last rule in the book.  And I believe that Washington took that rule to heart. We know that he took the whole book to heart. There is actually at Mount Vernon a notebook that shows each of these rules written out in George Washington's boyish hand sometime in the 1730s, the 1730s or 1740s. And so we know that he carried that vision of what conscience was all about with him throughout his whole life. Didn't always inform his actions, but generally it did. You know, his father died, his brother married well and moved up to that place that he named after a general that he had served with. This is the brother Lawrence Washington. And the general was General Vernon. And so he got this promontory of land on the Potomac and called it Mount Vernon. His brother George would later inherit Mount Vernon. But young George recognized that the way to begin to establish your reputation as a man of business and property was to get your hands on some property. And so he began studying surveying because the best surveyors got the first look at the best lands. And he began buying up small pieces of property here and there. And by the end of his life, he would be as the old saying goes land rich and cash poor, but he sure would own a lot of land. And that was how he got started in the world of business was as a young surveyor. We forget, however, that the next step in becoming a man of property and reputation was to get a commission to serve in the military. And so he wanted to serve as a British officer and angled for that position for a long time. After his father died when he was still young, one of his mother's brothers, or no, one of his patrons in Virginia got him a commission in the British Navy. George Washington was ready to set off and become a midshipman in the British Navy. And his uncle, the brother of his mother said, don't let him do this.  If you put him aboard a ship like that with the hopes that he will rise to become a captain or something higher than that, it will never happen. They will, as this is a direct quote, they will fold him and staple him like a Negro or a dog. That's what the uncle wrote to the mother. And the mother at that point said, George, you're not going, you're not going to be in the British Navy. And this is very early when his life was about 14 years old. And that was what led him to decide, okay, if I can't do this, I'll become a surveyor. He learned the business of surveying, got out on the frontier, learned how to live in the roughest and toughest of environments because surveyors were out there sleeping on the ground for six months out of the year. And quite often in the winter, when the leaves were off the trees, so it was easier to make your sightlines and things like that. And out of that, he got well toughened up, too. And so back in Virginia, back down in the tide water, he did what every good young man should do at the time and became part of the militia, the Virginia militia regiment. And when the Indian, the French and Indian War came along, that was his first opportunity to rise in the militia as a colonial serving at the side of the British troops. And then a long story unfolds out of all of that, starting with the fact that George Washington himself probably started the French and Indian War when he is sent north on one of his expeditions northwest to Pittsburgh at that time called Fort Duquesne to deliver an ultimatum to the French to get out of the Ohio countries because the British held claim to them. And the French, so he was informed were on their way to meet him and perhaps to attack him. And so he led a detachment of Virginia Colonials and Iroquois, I think it was Iroquois, I can't remember the tribe, led them to ambush the French and it happens.  They capture them. The Indian Chief, Tana Kareesan, kills one of them who happens to be a French envoy to the British and out of that will grow the French and Indian War, which of course will lead to the French defeating the French and the British to pay for the taxes on the French or to pay for the war will raise taxes on the Americans. The Americans will rebel against the British and the British will wait a second here. The British will raise taxes on the Colonials. The French will aid the Colonials in rebelling against the British and in order to pay for that rebellion they will raise taxes on the French, which will lead to the French Revolution, which will end ultimately in Napoleon. All of that begins with George Washington's action there in the remote corner of Pennsylvania as the British historian Horace Walpole would later write, the actions of a young Virginian in the wilds of North America set the world on fire. And that's when the world first comes to no become aware of George Washington. I think it's in the year 1752 or so.  He's a young man. So his ambitions had far-reaching things happen. I mean he made his mark even maybe not even expecting to a lot of the time. Well that keeps with the theme of that little bit of reading that I just gave you there, that character who's talking about Washington saying it's a small world we moved in. He means along the tide water, but the fact is that the population was of the whole world was much smaller at the time. And if you happen to be in the right place the right time you could make a much in a way a much larger impact on the whole human race than perhaps somebody in that situation would be today. And Washington was one who was in those positions for a long span of time and we were very fortunate that he almost always made the right decisions informed by the people around him and his concern with their respect or lack of respect for him and for his reputation and informed as well by that celestial fire called conscience. What is right and what is wrong? I remember years ago when you did an event at the Royal House in Medford you made the statement that we could have dispensed with any of the founding fathers and the country would fundamentally be the same. But if we dispensed with George Washington the country would be fundamentally different. How how why would explain that because I was I've been fascinated with that statement since you made it many years ago. It isn't so much that we the country would be different though it might be and I'll get to that in a second. But I see it as as an arch an archway that runs from about 1770 1774 to say Washington's death in 1799. That the arch of American democracy and you can take out Hamilton and you can take out Adams or Jefferson they're all bricks in this in this arch. But if you take Washington out he's the keystone he's the one who holds it all together not only because he brings south and north together as a Virginia planter joining with the north but also because he brings a certain awareness of politics and is a military leader as well and don't forget the world up until that point had always turned to military leaders in order to give the governance in times of revolution from the time of Julius Caesar and would again with with Napoleon shortly shortly after Washington's death. If you pull Washington out all the efforts of everybody else collapse because Washington many times during the American Revolution is the only guy who's holding it all together. Adams is off in England trying his best and Jefferson is doing what he's doing and so forth but only one guy is holding the army the symbol of American resistance together you know Congress is popping to from one city to the next in order to avoid the British and to avoid the the law basically the British law and so Washington is still there enduring and that's one of the key elements of his his powerful impact upon the era the revolution it's his willingness not not to quit to stay right there as the keystone but you know I do believe that America would look enormously different if it hadn't been for Washington because say there had been some other general and there were there were a couple of guys mostly British Charles Lee and Horatio Gates who thought they were as good as Washington who thought they knew as much as Washington and who who conducted themselves as if Washington was an amateur in their presence in some ways he was not he wasn't always the best military tactician that's for sure and Charles Lee himself who had fought on the British side and had now come over to the American side Charles Lee once said oh what I would not give to be made a dictator for a few months and then he could do what all of the other generals who had become dictators could do by overriding civilian authority and the thing is that Washington resisted the blandishments to become a dictator he resisted right up until the end of the revolution in 1783 he resisted calls from his own office's corps to make himself king he was furious about that idea why have we just fought in order to create another kingship another royal family we can't have that George Washington understood and feared as much as the people around him in Congress people like Franklin and Jefferson and all of them they feared the man on the horse the man who would come along and turn the heads of so many Americans by saying something like I alone can fix it I alone and the man who can lead you George Washington even though history shows that he really was that man never allowed himself to be seduced by that that idea and committing to the importance of democracy and to the to the importance of the Constitution and to the importance of a political structure that was as carefully balanced as the United States Constitution which is what Washington did at in the second half of his career in the political half when he became the president of the constitutional convention and then of course the president of the United States what Washington did there culminating with the fact that after two terms he happily handed over power and stepped away those are the gifts that Washington gives us that that save us from looking like what we might have ended up looking like just another just another bunch of colonists led by some tin pot dictator didn't happen thank god yeah thank you George let's revisit civility in this age is uh civility and decency important in today's digital world does it have a pot or is it recognized or what do you think I think that they should be they aren't always you know uh neither is honesty for that matter yeah and and it's essential I think in the life of a republic that there be some truths that we hold self evidence and that these truths uh whether we're talking about the grand theories of the enlightenment from the Declaration of Independence or whether we're talking about whether it's raining outside or not these truths can't can't be overturned with lies and when they're proven to be true you can't just double down and say well no the sun is shining when it's when it's pouring rain and we see that too much in our political discourse today we elected a man president whose major skill was inventing nasty nicknames for people and these are things that lead a lot of us to be very concerned about where we're headed in this country we've just seen two years ago a violent coup attempt on the United States capital itself and did this come out of a love and admiration for decency and honesty or did it come from some other source you know I've written the novel that we've talked about uh about the the tenor of the United States in the 1930s there was a great fascist uh send there were plenty of people who thought like the Europeans did in many cases the Italians and Germans that that a fascist government would be a good idea in this country they thought that in the United States in the 18th century and you know we see these periods of crisis uh in our country today and 50 years ago and back in the civil war we see these moments and we just have to rely on decency and and and honesty and all of the other virtues that Washington himself was a living embodiment of at least in the eyes of those around him because don't forget he could also be cranky and had a had a very uh a very sharp temper and things like that um we need we need to believe in those things and conduct ourselves as if a society is watching us in the same way that Washington with his awareness of reputation conducted himself with a sense that a society was watching him and so he'd better not disappoint you now did you when you were thinking about writing Citizen Washington did you did you ruminate uh like could they did you think well what about Citizen Adams what about Citizen Jefferson what about Citizen Franklin or was it always Citizen Washington in your mind well because of the idea of Washington as the Keystone I think that he was always the one that you'd want to write about uh if you were sitting down to write about one of those those guys and you wanted to tell the full story of the birth of America from the point of view of the revolution and the constitutional convention and all of the rest of it was actually uh David McCullough who said to me one night over dinner since I'd gotten to know him when I was writing that episode of the American Experience and he was the host of that show he said to me you know Bill there's a wonderful novel in the in George Washington and the Revolution and I thought yeah you might be right about that of course he went off and wrote 1776 about one year in that revolution and that's a fantastic book I went in the other direction and decided well if I'm going to tell the life if I'm going to tell the story of George Washington and try to get it his character what makes him tick and why he is such a paragon uh for Americans today as he was then I'm going to have to tell the whole story from beginning to end and so I created in Citizen Washington which by the way is it's not in print but you can you can read it uh through Kindle it's available as a Kindle or as an audio book um I tried to give you multiple perspectives on George Washington just as we have multiple perspectives on political leaders today um and uh that meant creating characters who were slaves who were Iroquois Indians who were Virginia planters along with Adams and Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton and all of the other people who come later in his life who will all be young men when he's already achieved his level of importance as the United States as the general of the of the army the commander in chief so it was always Washington and then Lincoln I wrote about Lincoln as you know in the Lincoln letter some years later and uh and Lincoln would say um of Washington at some point I can't remember exactly what prompted him to say it but he said um without Washington there is nothing Washington is the the star that outshines us all there were one lots of wonderful quotes about Washington's celestial character uh after the battles of Trenton and Princeton in which Washington took a revolution that looked like it was about to come to an end uh there in the uh in the dark days of December of 1776 Washington was in a very bad state wrote to his brother I see the impossibility of serving with reputation I think the game is pretty near up uh he started making plans to go and hide out in the uh in the west with a small remnant of his army because the British it appeared were about to to defeat him and to wipe out what was left of the continental army and then in the amazing bold stroke on Christmas night of 1776 he leads his troops back across the Delaware they strike at the Hessians who have called them the country clowns who have no respect for them whatsoever he captures all of the Hessians in Trenton captures all of their stores and supplies and so forth uh and then a week later the British send a whole regiment after him and um they're coming down one road and he's leading his whole army around through a swamp back up to the Princeton uh where he attacks the British detachment in Princeton and wins another small victory in in Princeton and the American press such as it was goes crazy Philadelphia newspaper wrote if there are spots on Washington's character they are like spots on the sun only discernible by the magnifying powers of the telescope and that was how Washington by his his willingness ever to give up and a sane man would have surrendered to the fates that were about to engulf him I think um in that first or second week of December but Washington doesn't give up he keeps trying to find a way out he keeps trying to to endure comes up with that uh that Trenton plan the password the watchword and response for the night are victory you would say victory and I'd have to say if I was challenged to buy the words victory I would have to say or death and that was uh that was the way that Washington led the troops on December just it was actually December 24th he gathered them that night on Christmas Eve to hear at the riverbank uh being read to them words that he was moved deeply moved by the words of thomas pain writing in the american crisis and pain of pain was marching with the troops at the time and he was writing on a drumhead at night these are the times the tri-men songs the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot oh I can't remember the rest of it sorry I was going to impress you with with with no and it is a lyric um he that stands it now shall have the love of men and women for generations hence um it's it's quite amazing Washington had that read to his troops and then they went and attacked Trenton the next day um so I think that the uh the the importance of Washington's presence at every step along the way of his life the significance of it whether he's starting the french and indian war whether he's right in the middle of the the bratic massacre which is the major battle of the french and indian war at least in in the united states um or the colonies uh whether it's the revolution a constitutional convention or in the first presidency it's always the most significant role being played by anyone you know there's a wonderful quote from franklin in the um or many wonderful quotes from franklin in the constitutional convention uh they're debating this tripartite governing structure with you know judicial legislative and executive branch well who's going to lead the executive branch who's going to be the president uh and don't we all fear that whoever is the president will have dictatorial instincts uh this is the debate that was very serious in the uh constitutional convention and franklin looks at the chair where washington is sitting and washington didn't say very much in the constitutional convention he looks at the chair where washington is sitting and he says uh i know not what sort of man may follow but i can be sure that the first man who occupies the presidential chair will be a good one and you know washington it's basically made president by acclamation mostly because of the example that he had given in the in the revolution the uh the resistance that he had shown to the blandishments of power uh by achieving that by giving up power he achieved lasting historical fame and admiration it would have excoriated him in the revolution or during his presidency if he had decided to make himself a dictator uh he believed in civil authority and he believed in the constitution that they hammered out in philadelphia in that summer of 1787 uh bill um do you know the story of sarah bradley fulton of medford they're re resurrecting her spirit and she supposedly made the costumes for the boston tea party and um she went on a spy mission uh into boston through the troops in the middle of the night a very stirring story and delivered an important message to charlestown and um at the end of the war after the war george washington visited medford to thank her for her action uh during that time and uh on october 1st in medford for the second year they had a special celebration day for sarah bradley fulton but so even our little town of medford got a visit by george washington yes yeah well he visited a lot of places and um had a lot of impact in all of the places he visited and some in some of the places he didn't visit uh on his 1789 journey to america to new england uh he did he in his first year of his presidency he did a tour into new england to to basically show the presidential flag um had a nice banquet in fanuel hall which is the opening it's the first scene in my first novel the banquet in fanuel hall and there were three ways three main routes into massachusetts from the south uh at this time 1789 you either came up the lower post road which is now route one uh running all the way from new york up through connecticut and rhoda island and into massachusetts or you came the upper post road which was the fastest which came up to about route 20 or the mass pike and then straight west into into boston or you came on the middle post road which is basically route 16 uh and it comes up through connecticut and then sneaks into massachusetts and washington uh went up came into the city came into boston on the upper post road and he left on the middle post road he would not go on the lower post road and the reason for that was that the only state that had not ratified the constitution by the time that george washington was president the state which in some ways had it had been an instigator for the constitutional convention because of their their financial practices the state of rhoda island um which was printing printing paper money that was nearly worthless in order to pay its debts and that was part of the motivation for needing a new constitutional government so that the federal government could could control currency um washington was basically saying until you ratify the constitution i won't show my face in your state and so uh you know he he came even in his little journeys to places like medford or boston or rhoda island or anywhere else he was making a statement about the importance of of unity and of about the significance of the constitution that we had now all decided to adhere ourselves to well we could easily do another session for this bill thank you very much for coming here to tell us about george washington's life we appreciate it and learn some new things it's been great thank you very very much thanks john


Welcome to the audio version of the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Affector newsletter. This is a pilot project to give people a new way to learn about digital rights and offer more accessibility to our newsletter. This is the audio version of Affector Volume 32, Issue 28, published on December 10, 2020 and titled, Section 230 is Good Actually. The editor of this issue is Activism Project Manager Lindsay Oliver and is read by me, Member Outreach Assistant Christian Romero. Affector is a semi-weekly newsletter on digital rights issues. Inside EFF summarizes and links to updates, announcements, blog posts, and news stories to help keep readers on the bleeding edge of their digital rights. Remember that each of the following items has a link to a more detailed description that you can find in the online version of Affector. Let's start with some top features. Section 230 is good, actually. There are many many misconceptions as well as misinformation from Congress and elsewhere about Section 230, from who it affects and what it protects, to what results a repeal would have. To help explain what's actually at stake when we talk about Section 230, we've put together responses from several common misunderstandings of the law. Publisher or platform? It doesn't matter. Quote, you have to choose, are you a publisher or a platform? End quote. We'll say it plainly here. There's no legal significance to labeling an online service as a platform as opposed to a publisher, nor does the law treat online services differently based on their ideological neutrality or lack thereof. Section 230 explicitly grants immunity to all intermediaries, both the neutral and the proudly biased. It treats them exactly the same and does so on purpose. This is a feature of Section 230, not a bug. It's not Section 230 President Trump hates, it's the First Amendment. Our free speech online is too important to be held as collateral in a routine funding bill. Congress must reject President Trump's misguided campaign against Section 230. Next up, we've got some EFF updates. Tell Congress not to bankrupt internet users. We are at a critical juncture in the world of copyright claims. The Copyright Alternative and Small Claims Enforcement Act, the Case Act, is apparently being considered for inclusion in next week's spending bill. This is must pass legislation. In other words, legislation that is vital to the function of our government and everything attached to it related to spending or not has a good chance of becoming law. The Case Act could mean internet users face $30,000 penalties for sharing a meme or making a video. It has no place in must pass legislation. Introducing How to Fix the Internet, a new podcast from EFF. EFF recently launched How to Fix the Internet, a new podcast miniseries examining potential solutions to the ills facing the modern digital landscape. Over the course of six episodes, we'll consider how current tech policy isn't working well for users and invite experts to join us in imagining a better future. Hosted by EFF's Executive Director Cindy Cohen and our Director of Strategy, Danny O'Brien, How to Fix the Internet digs into the gritty technical details and the case law surrounding these digital rights topics, while charting a course toward how we can better defend the rights of users. Law enforcement purchasing commercially available geolocation data is unconstitutional. Many of the smartphone apps people use every day are collecting data on their users, and in order to make money, many of these apps sell that information. One of the customers for this data is the US government, which regularly purchases commercially available geolocation data. This includes the Department of Defense, CBP, ICE, the IRS, and the Secret Service. While it violates the First and Fourth Amendments of the US Constitution for the government to purchase commercially available geolocation data, it would otherwise have to get a warrant to acquire. Senators Express Privacy Concerns Over Proctoring Apps Last week, five senators joined the chorus of privacy advocates, students, and teachers expressing concern over surveillance proctoring apps, which are used to watch students remotely during exams. EFF agrees that these apps pose a serious danger to students' privacy. Surveillance shouldn't be a prerequisite for an education. GitHub reinstates YouTube DL after RIAA is abuse of the DMCA. The recent removal of YouTube DL's source code by GitHub caused an outcry. After receiving EFF's letter explaining that it does not infringe or encourage the infringement of any copyrighted works, GitHub has reversed course. GitHub had taken down the repository last month after the Recording Industry Association of America, the RIAA, abused the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's notice and takedown procedure to pressure GitHub to remove it. Let's stand up for home hacking and repair. Every three years, the Copyright Office holds a rulemaking process where it grants the public permission to bypass digital locks for lawful purposes. We need your input to make the best case possible. If you use a device with onboard software and DRM keeps you from repairing your device or modifying the software to suit your purposes, we want you to tell us your story. Video Analytics user manuals are a guide to dystopia. The term video analytics seems boring, but don't confuse it with how many views you got on your YouTube to poach an egg tutorial. In a law enforcement or private security context, video analytics refers to using machine learning, artificial intelligence, and computer vision to automate ubiquitous surveillance. Hair color, accessories, and clothing are all automatic identifiers for these disturbing video analytics tools. Next up, we've got some announcements. EFF 30 fireside chat, Section 230 in free speech online. For our 30th anniversary, EFF has recorded our second EFF 30 fireside chat. We explored Section 230, why it's under fire, and the future of free speech on the internet. Check out the live Q&A with EFF legal director Corinne McSherry and Oregon Senator Ron Wyden by watching the stream at youtube.com slash EFF org. A celebration of our resilient spirit, an evening by Ethics and Technology. This event's happening on December 10th, 2020 at 6 p.m. Pacific time. Ethics and Tech will host a special event to interview strong women leaders in our community. We cordially invite you to join us for an evening of celebration, information, and reflection followed by laughter and love thanks to our guest comedians. Hate not found, the deforming of far right and its consequences. Happening on December 11th, 2020 at 5 a.m. Pacific time, how do restrictions and access to social media platforms affect media behavior and the power of mobilization of far right hate groups. EFF's director for international freedom of expression, Gillian C York, will join this event led by Germany's Institute for Democracy and Civil Society. Cypers end of the year cybersecurity game show spectacular. Happening on December 19th, 2020 from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. Pacific time. If there has ever been an argument for holistic security or how cyber defense is related to our physical and emotional defense, 2020 really found a way to bring together pathos from multiple locations and serve it to us all on a single platter. Join Cyper as they are joined by EFF's grassroots advocacy organizer Rory Mir to review some of the bigger tech stories of the past year and what we can hope for cybersecurity wise in the new year. Lastly, we have some mini links for you. HP ends free ink for life subscription plan. When HP unilaterally withdrew its free ink for life plan for its rental ink customers, they demonstrated the dangers of devices that can be updated by the manufacturer in ways that owners can't override. Public interest groups take aim at Pasco Sheriff's data-driven policing programs. Civil liberties groups, including EFF, have taken a stand against a program being used by the Pasco County Sheriff's Department that uses data to justify harassing people in hopes of preventing future crimes. Police in Jackson, Mississippi want access to live home security video alarming privacy advocates. We've long feared that network home surveillance cameras would one day become a massive CCTV network. One pilot program in Jackson, Mississippi is bringing our fears to life. TechDirt Podcast, a more competitive web with Corey Doctorow and Daphine Keller. Tune in to this week's TechDirt podcast to hear Mike Masnick, Daphine Keller, and our own Corey Doctorow talking about fighting tech monopolies with interoperability. And that's it. Thanks for listening. Remember the items in this newsletter are links, and this is only a short summary. Please subscribe to Effector at EFF.org slash Effector for the full stories. You can also visit EFF.org slash deep links for the latest EFF blog posts, press releases, events, and announcements. Lastly, EFF is a member-supported organization. We've been defending free speech online, fighting illegal surveillance, promoting the rights of digital innovators, and working to ensure that the rights and freedoms we enjoy are enhanced rather than eroded as our use of technology grows. 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Warning! This video will contain spoilers up to chapter 1036. You've been warned! Hello my Nakamotachi, this is Joygirl, and I want to talk about a topic that I'm sure is on everyone's mind as a result of the latest chapters. So you guys know that I've discussed Kaito's backstory in the past multiple times and they haven't performed so well. So usually I pinned that down to the fact that we didn't know much about Kaito's backstory and a lot of discussions centered around speculations and possibly wild long stretches. But a lot of you guys will also know that since chapter 1014, when Kaito made that comment to Luffy that Luffy couldn't be Joyboy either it seems, it seemed like Kaito once thought that he himself could be Joyboy. And now with the most recent chapters in chapter 1035 and 36, that's almost close to being confirmed. Except that there has been a curveball thrown in there because it's not quite clear whether this is something that Kaito thought of himself or whether this is something that King has projected onto him. Because if you look at chapter 1035, it does seem like Kaito believes that he himself is the one that is Joyboy when he meets King or when he meets Abba as you were still known back then, Albeir. Kaito says that only he could change the world. And if this also meant that he knew of who Joyboy was and if he believed that he was there for Joyboy then the most likely explanation as to how Kaito became aware of Joyboy, this prophesized figure would be through Roxy Zabeck. We know that Zabeck was looking into and researching into the world's taboos or the world's secrets and so it's very well possible that Joyboy was one of those. And maybe Roxy Zabeck actually believed that he was Joyboy and maybe Kaito believed that Zabeck was but then the events of God Valley proved that Zabeck wasn't. And so maybe this will was passed down to Kaito. But then we flash forward to chapter 1036 where both Kaito and King are older than what we saw of their flashback in chapter 1035 but obviously still younger than present day. And now it seems like King was the one that told Kaito that Kaito would be Joyboy because we see Kaito ask King whether King still believes that Kaito could be Joyboy. So because of this, it seems like King is actually the one who introduced Kaito to Joyboy who at least said that Kaito is Joyboy. And this could also make sense in a number of ways. I've seen theories about the possibility of Joyboy being a giant or an oni given the large hat that we saw at Marijoua. And so was Kaito's oni-like appearance what made King think that Kaito could be Joyboy? But the most obvious connection that I made was actually through King's Lunarian race. And so there are a lot of speculations about the Lunarian race and the connection to the other sky-dwelling races and I've made a video on that so make sure to check it out if you haven't yet. But given that the idea of a Sun God was first introduced to us in the Sky Pia arc and if this is indeed the same Sun God Nika that who's who introduced to us much more recently if this is the same deity figure is it also possible that they were also referring to Joyboy? Is Sun God Nika Joyboy all the same person? And if so, is it the case that all sky-dwelling races including the Lunarians knew of this legend, of this figure? But either way, whether it was through Roxie Zabek or whether it was through King, whether it was through someone else or something else something that is at least a little clearer is that a younger Kaito seemed to have been a brighter Kaito. When we see Kaito rescuing our bear from punk hazard Kaito has this bright smile that makes him really resemble Luffy and Roger from their appearance, their bright smiles but also the way that they each recruited their respective first crewmates. But a detail that I haven't seen people discuss about their appearance at punk hazard in the flashback is a connection that we could make to a comment a flyaway comment that Big Mom made. In chapter 989, when Big Mom's looking at the numbers she makes a comment that, oh, these are the numbers that Kaito bought from punk hazard and this line has always stuck with me. I've always found it a little bit odd because the word that she uses is bought, not brought, bought as in Kaito paid money for these numbers. And this actually suggests a lot about Kaito and his character. For one, I think it's quite odd that a fearsome beast, a strong beast like Kaito would pay for the numbers instead of taking them by force. And it also raises a lot of questions and speculations about who did Kaito buy the numbers from and for what reason. Now, there are a lot of interesting possibilities, but the fact that Kaito bought them from punk hazard does suggest to me that this would be most likely connected to vagapunk. Given what we know that it was vagapunk who was experimenting on Kaito who extracted his lineage factor and it was vagapunk who was working on punk hazard. So yes, I think the most obvious answer would be that Kaito bought the numbers from vagapunk. But again, I think it just says a lot about Kaito that he would choose to pay the man who was conducting experiments on him. And maybe it will actually be because Kaito knows about the history of Mads and maybe Kaito knows of vagapunk's allegiance, which we obviously don't know about, or maybe given the relationship of Mads, how vagapunk and queen were connected. This is actually where Kaito met Queen and maybe Kaito bought the numbers from Queen instead who was also working at punk hazard and Queen also decided to work for Kaito instead. Anyways, the other interesting question is why Kaito bought the numbers, because let's be honest, the numbers have been quite underwhelming. Apart from the intrigue in the relationship between Yamato and Fuga, the numbers just really haven't been all that impressive. And look, maybe that was actually a surprise to Kaito as well. But at the least, we can say that the numbers fit into the beast theme of Kaito's crew. It really does seem like he's gone out of his way to build and craft this specifically beast themed crew. If you look at the members of his crew that are closest to him personally, we've got King, a Lunarian, we've got Jack, who's a Fishman, even Black Maria, who we don't know specifically what her race is yet, or even Ulti and Page One. It's like Kaito is really surrounding himself with beasts like him. And this is another detail that I don't think gets discussed widely. But in Kaito's comment to Yamato in Chapter 1025, Kaito says to Yamato that, Yamato can't be friends with humans as a child of an Oni. As an Oni, Yamato can't expect to be accepted by the citizens, by the human citizens of Wano. And it seems to me that maybe Kaito is projecting here. And maybe this is a clue as to how Kaito turns sour. We know both Kaito and King shared a dream to change the world. Somewhere along the way, they both got jaded. Now, Kaito was still laughing about this in Chapter 1036. He was laughing and asking King whether the world that he was creating, the change that he was bringing about was the change that King envisioned. And King was now adamant that it doesn't matter as long as Kaito is the strongest. And so from that little exchange, there is a question to be had as to whether the dreams that Kaito and King had were always the same. Did the change that they envisioned always align? And from their conversation in Chapter 1035, I'm inclined to say that they were. And so then if we're to think about the change that they wanted, I think it could be along the lines of the power of the world government and the power of the celestial dragons. The way that they discriminate other citizens, especially special races like the Lunarians, like possibly the Oni, the reason why both Kaito and King were being experimented on. You know, it's even possible that these races were wiped out for that very reason. And both Kaito and King wanted to change that. And maybe that's why Kaito wanted to build a beast pirate's crew. Maybe he wanted to give a home for beasts, for the outcasts. And maybe that's why he bought the numbers. He didn't want them to come under the world government's rule and he didn't want the numbers to be used by the world government because even as depraved as Kaito is and all the horrible stuff that he's inflicted on the Wano citizens, it seems like those close to him really like him a lot and really respect him. Even Kaito himself seems to be like a loving father figure to his top officers. So long as you're not his actual child. But this could actually be why Kaito chose Wano as his base because we know from chapter 1016 that Kaito chose Wano intentionally. And maybe the reason behind that is because Kaito knew that Wano is isolated from the rest of the world, closed off, where the world government don't intervene, he wanted a place where beasts like himself could roam freely. So essentially Kaito and King thought that Kaito could be Joy Boy and change the world that discriminated against other races. And this is certainly a theme in One Piece. We have the fishmen and even the way that the Mink Jukes were treated when they arrived at Wano. But then somewhere along the line, they realized that Kaito couldn't be Joy Boy and maybe this is timeline related, similar to how Roger knew that he was too early. Maybe they realized that Kaito couldn't be Joy Boy because he too was too early. Maybe it was something else. But whatever it was, they realized that Kaito couldn't be Joy Boy and maybe this is where Kaito's switch flipped. Instead of the bright-eyed, happy, could-be Joy Boy, he turned into sad boy. And maybe this is where their dreams changed. And if he couldn't be Joy Boy, maybe Kaito became much more intent in becoming the world's strongest creature so that he could destroy the world that sought to eradicate beasts like him. And given all the horrible stuff that Kings endured as a Lunarian, maybe that's why he still supports Kaito even with these changing ideals. That's why we see him say in the flashback in Chapter 1036, it doesn't matter if Kaito is a legend or not, so long as he's the strongest so that the world will feel their message. You will hear their message through strength. Or maybe it's not quite so aggressive. The reason why they're so invested into Kaito's strength in becoming the pirate king, even if he is a Joy Boy, it's because he will still be someone strong enough, someone powerful enough to change the world. Someone who will still be able to protect beasts like them. Someone who'll be able to change the world so that beasts like them can live in peace. But in any case, even though Kaito is now aware that he is not Joy Boy, now that he knows that such a figure exists, he's still interested in meeting Joy Boy. He still wants to find out who this Joy Boy is. I mean, if he spent so much time wanting to be Joy Boy, he wants to meet the guy who's going to be Joy Boy. He wants to find out who this Joy Boy is and what he has that Kaito didn't. There is a bit of an inconsistency though as to why Kaito would then attempt suicide multiple times. And I can only take that down to his extremely depressed nature or the fact that he thought that, hey, if I can't be Joy Boy at the very least, I am going to carve out a name for myself. I am going to become a legend so that I'll go down in the history books as a legend and as a beast. And this could actually be seen as sort of the driving force for a lot of Kaito's actions, that even if he can't change the world, he will at least carve out a piece of the world for beasts. This could be what he meant when he announced the new Onigashima project that he's going to make Wano a lawless pirate tavern. The words that Kaito used was, it would be a place for all manner of pirates. Does he mean all manner in the sense of all types, as in all races? As in beasts, did he mean that a place where all beasts can roam free? And this could be why he went to Marineford to make a name for himself to have a legendary end. But then something strange about Marineford is that obviously he turned back. After being stopped by shanks, he turned back because that's actually something else that I've always found a little bit odd. The fact that Kaito and shanks didn't fight, especially given what we know about Kaito, his propensity to fight other strong people, he's not want to back down from a fight. And I guess it hasn't been technically confirmed that they did not fight. But I think given what we saw of shanks when he arrives only two days later at Marineford, shanks was unscathed. And yeah, the redhead pirates and shanks are all powerful, they're all strong, but it's just hard to believe that they went up against another yonkou and still they were completely unharmed. So then knowing Kaito, why would Kaito not fight? Why would he turn back? Why would he not go to Marineford? And the only thing that I can think of is if shanks gave him a reason not to fight and if shanks gave him a reason to turn back. If Kaito was looking for a legendary end if he wanted to become involved at Marineford so that he could have a similar fate like Whitebeard, maybe when shanks interfered and faced Kaito, he told Kaito that Joy Boy would emerge from this war and that it was still too early for Kaito to become involved. Maybe shanks told him to go back to live another day because the one that you're waiting for will arrive. And maybe that's why Kaito turned back. Which says a lot about what shanks knows which we obviously don't know but it does seem like shanks is privy to a lot more than he lets on. So that could be why Kaito had turned back and maybe that's why he's instigated this current war that he's announced so that he can attract other potential Joy Boys. Or maybe he already even knew that Joy Boy would actually come to Wano because there's another interesting detail that's often missed and that's in chapter 972 Odin's telling the scabbards there will come a time when a figure will come to change the world and that Wano must be prepared to welcome him and to work alongside this figure. And what's interesting is that it seems like Orochi and Kaito can hear him and Orochi dismisses what Odin's saying as babbling but Kaito looks a little, he looks a little irked and curious there's a question mark in his dialogue but he doesn't necessarily look very surprised. So maybe Kaito already actually knew that Joy Boy would be coming to Wano but I do think that all of this could play a really crucial role in the fight between Kaito and Luffy and how that fight concludes and how Wano as an arc wraps up. Odin said in the past that Luffy doesn't kill his opponents because in the world of pirates one's dreams and one's ideology means much more than life or death and Luffy breaking down someone's will his opponent's will is what is true victory. And we could see this in a hugely meaningful way between Kaito and Luffy for one because this is actually a core part of Kaito's character Kaito doesn't kill his opponents he likes to break down their will but for Kaito it's a lot more strength centric it's all about breaking down their will so that they submit under his rule whereas it's different in Luffy's case who punches down an opponent to break down their beliefs their ideology and how they see the world. And Kaito right now is really like that dark timeline Luffy that Odin likes to draw a good and bad timeline in the SPS he's a depressed and bitter failed Joy Boy who just wanted all races to be free whereas Luffy's the one that's going to be able to show Kaito that he's the one, he's the Joy Boy that's going to achieve this that he's not going to give up. Freedom is the theme that is so so inherently tied to Luffy's character that and friendship you know Luffy doesn't care if you're a monster or not in fact if you're a monster he probably likes you instantly that and if you give him food and once Luffy proves that to Kaito maybe that's when Luffy will beat Kaito because Kaito will, will relent he will acquiesce to Luffy and that could be how Luffy defeats Kaito and this could actually fit in and work so well with a lot of other developments currently going on at Wano we know that the world government fleet are on their way in case they need to intervene if the Yonko go down what if Kaito now recognizing that Luffy is Joy Boy Kaito is actually going to be the one that stops the world government sort of like a film Z moment because then this could tie up so many things like the comment that the anime director made the potential spoiler the potential accidental reveal that there is a final enemy a big enemy after Kaito what if that's the world government but surprisingly instead of it being an enemy that Luffy and the straw hats have to face Kaito stops them and fights them instead Kaito holds them off instead as an enemy to the cause and then this could also fulfill Kaito's wish to die a legendary death and I know some people don't like the idea of Kaito dying because then that would be the villain the antagonist getting what they want but if it works out in the story that Kaito now recognizes Luffy as Joy Boy and has joined his cause and is now protecting Luffy protecting the straw hats Wano protecting the next generation protecting this new era this new dawn then I think that Kaito could be redeemed and Oda could give him what he wants but that's just where my head is being at about Kaito and Joy Boy his backstory and what it will mean for the future of Wano and I'd be interested in hearing what you guys have to say so make sure to leave a comment below don't forget to like and share the video please do subscribe if you'd like to hear more One Piece discussions you can also join our Joyfleet Discord server or even become a Patreon member and I thank all of my Patreon members for help supporting the channel this is Joy Girl and I'll see you again soon


ಕಾಲಲ ಗಲಲಲ ಸಟೊರನ ಕਹಲಲ ಗಳಲಲ ಆಂ� roundkaa ಂಟಂ ಭಯ ಸ್ಬ್ಲಾ ಯೇಲಂ ಐಖ್ನ್ >>[ತರದಿ಑ೆಚ್ころ ಚುಲಡಗಾಕಾಳುಮಾಟ್ಲ ಑ೋವಾಡುಕುತರಲ ತಂ ಇಟರುಢ್ನೂರದ್ತಿ ಸಮಿಕಥರಾ ಬ ಿಸ Haitiಗಾಪ್ರಲ ಮಿವ अदके के चुक्किर वगा बन्दु थोतinkle उत्ट्टूटन یہ नासा लोग कब रहंद हैं नम्मपरस्तिति अलेटन का, कभऐसता हैं या अदि अदि के वस्ट यूस्ति नमसिब्ठा एलनें अदि बेलैम्यं का इन्सुर्न्ज कटतुदिवि we made a profit of 1 lakhs and made 5 times more in government 6 things are worth 1 hectare and the owner is not a farmer we gave 1 crore to 1 crore people we gave them 1 crore to give them we gave them the same amount of money we gave them colour ship we gave them 1.5 crore to give them we gave them all the money we gave them the money to make the MP1 we gave them the money from MP1risk we like to be cared for by the Indians and we wanted to help the Shankars so much by Hou methane so it would be our wanted wish and we can create azepas we are sensitive to the issues and the difficult that farmers are facing and… very interested in improving their situation