Some researchers are now saying that your muscles are another endocrine system. In other words, they produce chemicals that affect the body like hormones. In fact, one of these compounds called myokines are being referred to as hope molecules. Why? Because every time you work a muscle, you contract it. It produces this compound, and this particular compound has antidepressant effects. And you know, modulary effects helps heal the body. It essentially makes you healthier. It makes you feel good. So your muscles actually produce compounds when you work them that affect the entire body that improve the health of the entire body. It's kind of cool, right? Yeah, sir. I think you said that in a really complex way. I think there was like a simpler way to say that, right?  How about that? Maybe somewhere in between. Somewhere in the middle there. When you work out, the body releases feel-good hormones. Muscles. Muscles in particular. Oh, muscles in particular to release a feel-good hormone that could help fight or potentially prevent depression, right? All of it. Depression, inflammation, cancer. So what's interesting is, I think people think of the health effects of building muscle. They think of the muscle itself. So just healthier muscle. And then maybe some of the side effects of that. But this is an actual compound that the muscle releases that affects the entire body. So like one workout, you produce this. As muscles become more fit, they produce more of this particular compound. And yeah, it's got antidepressant effects. You know, it's funny though that you brought this up the other day of like, you know, did we really need to study for this? I know. I mean, has anyone ever been not in the mood to lift and just feeling lethargic and down just days like that. And then you force yourself to go train. And what happens 100% of the time? You feel better. You feel better. Yeah. Even if it's not like amazing, you still better. You still feel better than what you did going into that. We've been promoting this forever. It's just like, I think there's just new angles of focus where you could like kind of point out that this phenomenon happens and these myokines are, you know, contribute towards this antidepressive kind of quality. So it's like, I just feel like you need more data points to convince people sometimes do it. There's the this thing works and we know it works. So we know for a fact, right, that exercise has potent short-term and long-term antidepressant effects and pro health effects and anti poor health effects. The antidepressant effects, by the way of exercise are remarkable. I mean, there's no antidepressant that compares to exercise in the sense that there's no down regulation receptors. There's no like, oh, it's not working anymore. It actually gets better over time. And then the improved health, you know, contributes to that. So they know it works. This is just helping them identify what is happening that's making it work. What's the mechanism there? Yeah. And I'm sure downline downstream, they're going to figure out how to make a synthetic form of this myokinesia. You could take a pill and then, you know. See, I've heard about these before. I've never heard it presented in this fashion. I know there's like a viral video going right now where this lady talks about that being the hope molecule. And like, it's always interesting to see how these things get sort of like rebranded and sort of presented in a different way. Yeah. You know, the biggest takeaway that I have from this is something that it took me a long time to get to this point in my lifting career, which was being okay with telling myself that even though I'm not in the mood, I don't want to train. I just, I don't feel like I got it to push myself. It's convincing myself to get in there and do one exercise at least because just by contracting those muscles and starting that process, you release those chemicals that start to produce you and make you feel in a better mood. And that many times is enough to get me to finish a really good workout. And for the longest time, I always had this all or nothing mentality whenever I approached both diet and exercise and the idea was, man, if I can't get after the workout, what am I going to waste my time going in there and do three sets of something like that's, that's stupid. That's a huge myth. The myth that an easy or short workout has no benefit. That's a waste of time. Huge myth. It has benefit. Easy workout has a lot of benefits. In fact, sometimes an easy workout has more benefit for you than a hard workout depending on the context of kind of what's going on. Like an easy workout could be pro recovery, right? Could help facilitate recovery. It could boost your mood. Whereas a hard workout might not do that. It might make you feel worse depending on the stress that you have and your health. Raise your energy levels. Raise your energy levels. Improves creativity. Here's a big one. Like, you know, for a long time being intellectual or intellectual prowess was separated from physical prowess, right?  That's such a massive, terrible myth. Let's say you're a writer or an engineer and you need to do something creative or think outside of the box. Movement oftentimes stimulates that creative process. That thought process. By the way, writers have known this for a long time. One of the number one, like, I guess, cures or remedies for writer's block. Strategies for writer's block. Go for a walk. Go for a walk or whatever. We've talked about that forever. I mean, and then they'll get into like mind altering substances and things just to kind of get them to think differently. But it was always like get outside, you know, be in nature, go for walks and that would stimulate new thought process completely. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny too because it's like if I'm in a like bad space or a bad mood or I'm feeling really negative about something, I always tell myself, let's see how I feel after I do some exercise, if I feel the same way. And I almost always feel different. No, I wouldn't say I feel radically different. It's not like something bad happens. And after my workout, I'm like, that's actually a great thing. But the way I view it or how I feel about it is, I guess, for lack of a better term, more positive. Either I feel more empowered or I feel like there's more options or I feel like there's more meaning. And it's always after a workout. And then for creativity and inspiration. I mean, some of the best ideas I've ever had have come in the middle of a workout or right afterwards. Always. It's almost always. I don't know about you guys. You guys ever noticed that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it definitely stimulates a lot of creative ideas. And it's usually when I'm either I'm doing a light workout or I'm doing something out of the ordinary. So I'm like rotating. I'm doing some kind of functional movement or I'm outside and kind of in nature in the combo of the both very stimulating for creativity. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things for me. It's for me, it's definitely. And you know, I think you notice this the longer you work out because when you look at like polls of people who exercise consistently and who've been doing so for let's like a decade, for example, people have been doing for a long, long time. Whenever they do polls and they ask them, what are the top five reasons why you do this? Appearance is not the top. It's not one or two. Sometimes it's three, but it's usually not one or two. It's always mental health and well-being and like health. So like the way it makes you feel as you do this for a long period of time, you start to realize so much more value in that than the like looking a particular way because that's where the value is. Well, that's usually what gets everybody in, you know, and like then the, and the beginners sort of keep that mindset until they realize that this is, this is, you're embarking on a whole lifestyle change. So it's like you got to kind of enjoy other elements of it and get motivated in a different way. All right. Today's giveaway is maps split. This is a bodybuilding style maps program. Here's how you can potentially win free access. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this video. Also subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If we pick you as the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section. We also have a sale going on right now, three maps programs, 50% off. Maps performance, maps aesthetic and maps hit. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right. Here comes the show. So I have something that I want to talk about that's a little off our typical subject. So bear with me, Sal. Okay. This last weekend, you guys all came over for the Super Bowl. Yeah. And there has been, and this has been kind of like circulating a lot in this past season, more than I'd ever seen in the past. And maybe Doug can fact check because I'm not sure how true this is or not. But supposedly the NFL is classified as an entertainment business. Therefore they can script how things are going to play out and not be held accountable to some of the betting and stuff like that that happens on it. So yeah. So my understanding, and again, we've got to get fact checked. But in the court ruling, they're classified as a entertainment business now. So yeah. So all of my friends that had those conspiracies on some of the games that felt like the refs were way too involved and certain teams were kind of pushed through and certain plays were a little suspect. Like I've had friends that have been kind of pointing things out like that along the way. And I'm like, I don't know, man. It's, you know, yes, the ref will be a factor. But that's kind of considered like the field, right? Like you can't really control a lot of that. But at the same time, you do see in the critical moments of the game how drastically that changes. Well, there's a lot of odd things that have. So if you, and definitely if you listen to this and you gamble, you're like going to be like, yeah, uh-huh, yeah. Like when you bet on the games, Vegas has a line already, right? That they have determined before the game starts. So just like last night's game, ironically it was one and a half points, you know, and it came down to the very last second. And you know, they ended up winning by what three, right? Is what the final score was. So they tend to be really close. And there's moments that happen all the time throughout the season when, and if you understand the game, whether that's football, basketball, this goes across all sports, there's like certain behaviors that you just know are supposed to happen. And like, okay, they have, the game is already won. They're well ahead. They're probably going to kneel it out and run the clock out. And then all of a sudden they choose to kick the field goal. But then when you find out, if you were following the line. Oh, the spread. It changed the spread. Oh, wow. And it was, those three points was enough to cover the spread, right? And it's like, whoa, nine times out of 10, that team would just kneel out. They wouldn't take the risk. They would, yeah. Why would they even do that? It makes no sense. And so you see, and so if you're a big sports fan and you watch and you also gamble, you see a lot of this because you're always paying attention to the line.  And now you see how like online betting and all that like has really taken over and is acceptable now with sports gambling. And, you know, there's the Raiders in Vegas and like there's a lot more kind of mingling, intermingling of sports betting it looks like. What does it say, Doug? Well, I mean, there's a lot of debate here about this. Yeah. Now this one person says, this is not WWE in order for the outcome to be fixed. They'd have to rehearse too many variables for it to be fixed. Referees can influence the outcome of the game, but there's no way the game could be scripted or fixed. It is classified as sports entertainment and they can, but legally they can't fix games due to many reasons, mainly the gambling associations tied to the game. So, I mean... Well, look, here's how I... Okay, so they... You don't need to fix the game. That's right. All you need to do is influence the referees a little bit. They prove this with soccer. Right. Remember that whole deal with the... Yeah. So, this is somewhat of a protective measure it feels like for them in case they get sued because the referee or whatever the factor was. Yeah, that's enough for them to go like this. But, well, you know... We say you're not supposed to and we have rules that affect you. All you have to have is like probable deniability. So, all that call could have gone anywhere. Oh, yeah, that was one bad call. Yeah. But how many times is a bad call totally changed the direction? So, what I think is an even more fun discussion. Okay. Is if it was and there was some of this like scripting going on or there was definitely refs that were mingling in this and influencing games and that was happening and that came public, would you see a decline in football attendance and viewership? Nope. Would it go down? Nope. You say no at all? No. Remember what they had? There was a huge scandal when it actually came out that the referees were being heavily influenced. Yeah, but that was a little bit different because that was like mafia was influencing, you know, and getting involved. That isn't like the refs and the NFL are, you know... All they would have to do is say... Conspiring together.  It's not going to happen again. And then... The only way would be if there was another league that was just as popular, which is like good luck. Yeah. The NFL is pretty much just a standard. So you can't even pretend... And there's such a generational legacy with the NFL that do you know how many... You know how hard it would be for people to give that up? Do you agree, Doug? What do you think? Do you think it would turn you off like... Well, I think if they didn't correct it, it would turn me off for sure. So if you're so vested as a fan in the sport, in your team, and then you find out later that it was all a big fraud, I'd be really pissed off as a fan. Now, if I believed that they were going to fix it, there was a problem, they didn't know about it, they went and fixed it. I would have to go back probably. Okay, so let's pretend they didn't fix it. Because I think that's a fun... You'd lose me as a fan. So if they said, yeah, it's happening, but we're not going to do anything about it? Yeah. Oh, well, that would be suicide, I think. Okay, so this is... Because that's what Doug, I think, was implying originally, was that if it was openly known... Like the WWE is the example, right? WWF or what it used to be, WWF came out in the late 80s, early 90s. It got a lot of heat for being fake. There was a huge population that knew it was already, but then there's a lot of people that believed it to be true. When we were kids, it was a big thing. Then it all came out. Now, here's my argument. I think that even if you knew that it was being influenced and somewhat fixed, you still watch it. And it doesn't lose a fan base. One, the negative news grabs so much attention that you obtain new fans, just like I'm sure WWE did. And the reason why people still pay attention is because even though it's fixed, just like WWE is, that you know there's a script, you don't know what the script is, so you still watch. And here's the thing. So maybe you don't bet on it anymore because you don't want to get screwed. If they are fixing it and scripting, imagine how much more ridiculous they would make it. Thank you. Because the entertainment value, they're going to really lean into that. And so now you're going to get all these characters running down from the stands and like, oh, look who it is, Joe Montaz back. He's going to play it. I mean, it doesn't have to get that crazy, right? So look up Kanye West says NFL is scripted. So this was just on a recent podcast. This went viral too. This is actually what I thought, Jesse. He says a lot of stuff. Well, he's pretty balanced, though. First of all, I'm not using him as a reference. I'm not using him as a reference to prove my point. I just wanted to highlight this conversation is happening all over the place. And there's a lot of speculation around whether this is something that's happening or not happening. I don't think it's, I don't. So I would speculate that because there's so many players, so much stuff that's going, I don't think it's scripted, but I think it's an, I would, I would imagine all you have to do is in key games, maybe not all of them in key games influence the refs enough to where if it's close, they can make a difference. That's what I would think. The reason why you know it's not scripted, okay, is because by now there's, there's already been hundreds of NFL players to play. There's been plenty of NFL players that are sour. They didn't get the players that would come forward and rat out the NFL. So you know it's not fixed like a WWE is fixed. But the thought that maybe there is a, you know, whether it be ownership or, you know, people of power and influence, influencing refs that, hey, here's the deal. Tonight's game, the line is one and a half points. If there's an opportunity when the Eagles are coming down to tie the game or come over, if there is an opportunity like that, here's, here's $50,000 to make sure that that's a very difficult drive for them. Let me ask you this dude, have you ever played in a game where 100% the refs completely took over the game? Yeah. Yeah. Like I've played in a few of those. Yeah. And it's really frustrating, that's the thing. It's like influence is one way to say it, but really there are so many variables and options that they could call at any moment. Yeah.  So that's the debate around this, right? Or the house people. Or no calls. And you know this in football. Okay. In football, there is... Don't they have instant replay? Do they have that anymore? Yeah. They do. Okay. So in football, there are so many players interacting on the field at once that there is always a penalty that could be called. Right. You could make that case. Yeah. There is always... That's a really good point.  I mean that there is... There's so much going on. You could call. There is an opportunity and that's why I think it can be influenced. And in basketball, I think it's just as easy too because basketball is such a momentum, sport of back and forth. You just interrupt the momentum. Yeah, you interrupt the momentum. You see a team, if you're influencing that game, a team is getting ready to go on a run. Yeah.  Somebody's hot is in the zone and is draining everything.  Yeah. Oh, yeah. By calling a couple of tiki-tak fouls and it's, you know, they got to come out and they got three fouls early. I'll say this. So I think this is a silly argument, but here's why. Not because I think it's dumb, but because it's human nature. Whenever you have a lot of money or a lot of potential power and there are people... It's almost always you'd be corrupt. And there are people that can influence the direction of that power or that money. You're going to have corruption. You're just... It's human nature. You don't name an industry. No, it has... You know, you're... Hey, imagine all... Just name one. Leave my sports alone.  Business is corrupt. Nothing is pure. Go touch my sports. Nothing is pure. Dude. You don't have... Unless we had like angels, like actual angels running, like being as referees. It's not gonna... How unfortunate and sad that is to think that. It's just human nature. You have to accept it. This is why... Okay, it's like government... There's like degrees of it. It's like government regulation of industry. People like, we need more regulation. You do realize the more regulation we put, and I think some regulation is necessary, but the more you put, the more power you're giving. Bro, you are using a perfect analogy for how it is played in business. Like literally regulations are refs. That is the refs influencing the game in the game of life and business. That's always been an argument. Yeah. Imagine this. Imagine if you had... You had 10 NFL teams. Okay? And other teams were being developed and they're like, we wanna get into the NFL. But the current 10 NFL teams are like, well, we'll create the standards that you have to meet in order to come into the NFL. What kind of standards do you think they're gonna create? Impossible to meet barriers. This is how regulations are created in industry. Regulations are created by the current big dogs, and they make it so that it's impossible for new competitors to come in, because otherwise they gotta compete with more people. Big business loves regulation.   The ball never lies, dude. That's my rule.  Get rid of the refs. Let them go.  You get fouled. You disagree. You guys get into it. Let the viewers vote. All right, here's the foul. What do you guys think? Yes or no? Based on that, right now I'm wracking my brain around all the sports. So there are some sports, though. That are probably much more difficult to influence. Basketball and football, for sure, easy. But hockey, a little less, tennis, even more or less, golf. How are outside forces influencing that? I'm not saying that there's not. The more rules, the more rules. More players. More players and more points. So more rules, more players, more points. The more ways you can manipulate. Yeah, yeah. Less rules. So like a street fight. No rules. Whoever wins wins. That's it, right? But now you put them in the cage and there's some rules. Now you have some ways to influence. No, stop right there. Illegal hit. You're holding them too long, whatever. The more rules, this is business as well. This is why market regulations tend to be some of the best regulations because who determines that? The consumer. You do a bad job. I don't buy your stuff. You do a good job of buying your stuff. That's that. Now I'm not saying we should have no regular. I think there should be some, but that's just what ends up happening. The more the refs can influence the game, the more the rest become a part. Likely they'll get rigged, yeah. They become a part of the game. So people are always like, how do we get money out of politics? Like, you know, presidential elections will cost like billions of dollars. It's like billions of dollars to get one guy or the other person to win. And you want to know how you would, you know how you get rid of, of that money immediately? If you got government out of all markets, there'd be no incentive to give them any money because they have no. Yeah, but going back to my. You have to have some. Yeah, exactly. Somebody would make the argument is like, come on, that's as ridiculous. I'm just making an example.  And it's like somebody has. Maybe we'll have AI refs. I mean, honestly, that is the, well, that's probably where we're going. I mean, 100%. And then what it'll do is it'll show the foul, and then it'll play what's going on. Dude, we already, we already, look how fast you can. Yeah, but AI is biased. Watch the game live, how quickly us as viewers get to see that play replayed in slow motion. Yeah. And all you have to do is put the parameters, plug it in to the AI, and then AI makes the call and judgment. And then it's non bias because it's, I'm going to find the turd in the punch ball already. All now AI can actually manipulate the video just enough. And you'd never know. It's a deep fake.   And it's like, like, and they're like crying and traumatized. And it looks just like them. I saw these, was it fans only accounts that are like, they look like real girls, like the real people, but they're not. They're just completely made out. Oh, that's what I wanted to do. And they speak to the only fans page. It's not even a real. They're not even real. What do you mean? You think that was your idea? You're the first person to think of that? That shit's happening, bro. Yeah. They're already making that. Yeah. It's like, and people are getting totally bamboozled by these girls. What a brilliant idea. And nobody's going to care. Some dude on the other end just like, did you hear that Jordan Peterson in a little clip today? Yeah. Like talking about that, like where the pornography is going with AI. And he's like, they're not going to care. They're not going to care. No. Got men are so superficial with looks as long as it looks. Yeah. If it passes the look test. Yeah. But you know what's funny about that? They say just it's men, you know what they're going to do? Same thing to women. It's just going to communicate a little bit differently. It's going to fool them differently. No, it's not going to be, it won't be looks. It'd be like the way it communicates to them. It'd be like words of affirmation. Oh, you tell me more stories. You're so gorgeous. He understands me. I'm here. He feels me. Yeah. He really knows what I'm saying. He understands me. He validates everything I say. We are fucked. We're going to get outcompeted everybody.  I think that things will be labeled, you know, organic, right? Yes, dude. I think that, and there'll be, and there'll be a market for both, right?  Then there'll be some people that are like, hey, I'm willing to pay a little more for the people that I know are real, that I'm talking to another human.  Right. Why is it carrying so small? Hey, trip on this for a second. Yeah. Now, will this actually, this could be like, here's the, here's the positive spin on AI is will this now make us appreciate the flaws in each other more? Like right now, like what do people do online? Smash others for typos or making errors or like putting people down. No, I think it'll engineer the flaws. I think it'll figure out. Exactly. It'll figure out just, just enough of the flaws that you need to believe it's real or to like it. Well, you heard that in what video it was that the guy was talking. He had AI for one of his, his voice. Yeah. And it give the ums and the pauses. Yeah, he did. He did like some imperfections that were added like specifically to kind of fool you that way. They're already thinking of that stuff. We're going to have to make, it's going to be funny because regulators are going to try and regulate it. Good luck. There are going to see, you're going to see workers and people, lobby government to ban AI, whatever for their field. And they may get lost past because they have a lot of voting power, but it's now it's there. Okay. Good luck. So we're going to talk about the monkey in the room or what? See elephant in the room, but what about that? Tell me about the monkey though. Monkey's better than elephant. That's the monkey's. It's a 500 pound gorilla. There you go. Analogies. Hey, we're going to talk about the elephant gorilla. The hybrid elephant gorilla. We can talk about that elephant.  What's going on there? Hey, let's talk about, let's talk about the UFO. Yeah, let's talk about it. Justin's been itching over there. Come on. All right. You're ready for me to just be the turtle. You guys just punch ball on this one? No. Wait, relax. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. There's been four. Let's just talk about the facts first. The facts first. There's been four, like confirmed reported, I think up to four now, maybe five. Over Canada, over Michigan, the one that got shot down. There's one, there's one in China. Are you including the balloon in that one? Are you including the balloon? No. Lake Huron? Yeah. There's a cylindrical object.  Yeah, they got it shot now. Yeah. And places are all simultaneously reporting. And their militaries are saying, we don't know. They're the military is saying this. We don't know what it is. Will Smith did a movie about this. In case you guys are wondering. Okay. This is one good movie. Yeah. Okay. All right. Here's the turn of the punch ball.  Okay. Here's it. It's all bullshit, but to You didn't even ask how we say that the whole time. Come on. What do you mean? You guys are saying it's a UFO. I'm saying it's nothing. A Chinese balloon.  Yeah. They're just literally doing like the most ridiculously obvious ways to distract us. That's it. Yeah. That's like, like, you don't think China already has satellites surveying us. They have people on ground. Taking all our information. You know, They infiltrate us with Tik Tok.  What did they invent? What did they invent balloons? It's so old school. You know what? We caught a carrier pigeon from Russia.  I mean that's that this all this shith is to get all of us talking about it a bit of why meanwhile but what are the real shithes? Now here's why. But this is all escalating, I guess. What I'm trying to get to. Okay. Because the original wasn't enough. Yeah. Because like, Dude. Okay. So 1994. No, this is when, yeah, this is when this whole like Project Bluebeam and this whole you know what Project Bluebeam is? Of course I don't. Conspiracy came out. Tell me. You don't? Of course I don't. I don't subscribe to the same conspiracy magazines that you guys do. Yeah. Hey, hey, right now conspiracy theories are like 86 and 0. We're running out of them. So tell me Project Bluebeam. So it's this government, it's like NASA and so they all are all working together to basically create this like simulated alien invasion, right? With like lasers in the sky so creating holograms so you could actually like create UFO looking objects like in the sky and they were speculating that this was a way that they could like kind of simulate an invasion and then gain control of the population. So the guy that came up with this, his name was Serge Monast and he was a writer and an investigative journalist from Quebec and he published a manifesto explaining the theory that he called Bluebeam and he said it's a four step project. I have it all say here. Also Star Trek had a script that they pitched out for this movie and then in Hollywood actually rejected the movie and it was literally like this exact script and they actually wrote a book about it later but it was like how they brought his religious leaders first to kind of bring down and kind of persuade everybody to subscribe to this new religion as the aliens were invading. So check this out. So the four step project was designed by NASA and the United Nations which would allow these organizations to accomplish what he believed to be their ultimate goal of creating a new age religion led by the Antichrist in order to start a new world order dictatorship. So Project Bluebeam was a system of advanced mind control as well as top secret technology to trick everyone into believing there's been a second coming. Part of it would be to display religious leaders all over the world, so like Buddha, Jesus, whatever, and also to show a UFO or alien invasion. Essentially getting people to organize a new world order type of deal. So distract and divide for as many years as possible to then make it this ultimate way of unifying everybody under some new religion. Now here's what's crazy. This is 1994. There's other elements of this. Like he said for example that part of it would be to get rid of cash and to use digital currencies which is kind of interesting. That was in 1994? Yeah. Wow. Yeah dude. And then he died mysteriously by the way. His family says he disappeared but it was reported that he had a heart attack. But anyway, kind of weird. So here's, I don't know if I believe in this, but I do think it's interesting that why would our military be like, yeah, was UFO everybody in that weird? I feel like they wouldn't say that. They would keep that a secret. They would keep playing into it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what got my bells and whistles off. Yeah. Well that's why I even felt like the whole, you know, China balloon. You know? Like why would they?  Like why are we all excited about a balloon? And why announcing it like that and then also delaying the taking it down. I mean it just created, you know what I would be really interesting is, I wonder how much like- Didn't they shoot it with a missile? Was there like more Pfizer reports? Didn't they shoot the balloon with a missile? No, you know what? You know what I feel like? All I have to do is like shoot, throw a rocket or something. Yeah. Without Trump with COVID starting to drift away as far as the news cycle, I feel like we haven't had- There's no boogeyman. That's right. There's nothing there. And so- Putin's Canada yesterday's news. Yeah. I wish I knew how much like, okay, when a Trump comes in or when COVID hits, like how much money does do all the networks make for getting eyeballs on you? Like it would be really interesting to see what like, you know, like let's say like a normal year of news, let's just say, of like your typical stuff and then like pandemic level, Trump crazy level and like, and how much more eyeballs does that draw on, on like news networks and ad revenue? And it'd be really interesting to see like how much money is to be had. How much revolves around that? Right. Cause then you then you have to ask yourself, okay, if we're talking about hundreds of millions, maybe even billions of dollars, like, and to think that maybe the, the government and news networks aren't involved in conspiring to create just stories, to create stories, to stay paid, to stay- Here's the biggest counter. It's like, oh, it would take too many people and too many countries and too many organizations to work together to do this. That's not true. That's not true. You don't need them all working together. All you need is small groups from each place.  That's right. Yeah. So, okay. So now here's the other side of it. The UFO people say that- Who are the UFO people? Like the people that are like all about them, right? We usually have crazy hair. We have one in the room. So the UFO people say that- Just look off in the distance. That the, that the, that UFO aliens monitor us. They leave us alone. Like we're a, like we're a protected habitat, right? Like a, like a national park. Yeah.  The monkey in the room. And maybe some of them are like, hey, maybe we're getting close to actually destroying ourselves. Send a couple ships over there. Maybe with AI or with nukes, who knows?  Game's over. Yeah, we're not- Get back to your cages. Yeah. You guys. Oh man. We weren't gonna do anything, but now we're gonna step in.  Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Stop cleaning your room. I don't know. It is crazy though. It's funny too because I'll see these articles like, UFO was this, UFO was that, UFO was shot down. And I'm like, Justin, I'm like instantly sending him to him. Have you seen it? Yeah. Yeah. And my head is just like, oh man. I can't take any more of this stuff. All right. Let's take a left and get into business. So here's something that we accurately reported on and predicted. And I remember at the time we had friends of us that said, we're so wrong. You guys don't even know anything about this. In fact, we had the CEO of the company come on the show to discuss to us why we were so wrong. Yeah. Turns out we might have been right. Tonal. What's going on with Tonal? Oh God. Remember that? Oh, revenge is so sweet too. I don't know if you guys, I don't know if any of you had gone back and look at the, I actually did today because the article came out because I was like, oh, I forgot about this. No, I didn't forget about it, but I forgot about the conversation that I had with my boy Brendan. And I went back and like reread the thread. I'm like, boy, he went in, he went ham on me, dude. So I was like, you know, normally I wouldn't be petty like this.  But I'm like, this motherfucker went hard on me. So I had to post in my story and tag him and be like, yeah. So what happened? They're going to do evaluations. So they're going to, they need money. Okay. They're bleeding. So they need money. They're going to have to do another round. When they do this round, the evaluation is going to come in at, you know, they're saying north of 500 million plus less than what it was a year and a half, two years ago. So the story goes what happened and on that, on top of that, they're talking about letting go of the CEO. Okay. So here's, so here's what happened. This was during, was it during the pandemic? This happened? Yeah. It was, I mean, they were, they were around before. Yeah. But that they, and they were taken off already before, but then the battery. So they got this valuation that was a billion dollars. All of us. That was like two points. Or so it was over, it was like two billion. Yeah.  And they kept, and the argument was, oh, it's this new technology or whatever. But we understand exercise and we know, I don't care what your technology is, the bottleneck or the challenge is always going to be, can you get people to stay consistent? The adherence. That's it. I don't care how fancy it is. I don't care how great it looks. If you can't get people to stick to it, which is a problem that we have been trying to figure out the fitness space. Nobody solved it.  And we said that, we said that on the show, I think twice. And the CEO of tonal heard it came on the show to debate and discuss with us, talked about how sticky his members were. All of us were like, we'll see about that. And it turns out that we were right. And sadly, you know, I hate to say that. Yeah. No, of course. I don't think any of us were rooting for the collapse. And then I think that we were just speculating on it.  Right. So he's, he's closely tied to it. Nobody wants to hear like, Hey, you know that money, you just gave that company like totally overvalued. Like I get why he defended it. But I mean, at the same time too, like it was really clear to us what we were looking at. Now, if it smelled like every other fitness. Yeah. If we would have used, used it and been like, Oh my God, this is new science, new breakthrough. This is going to change everybody's life. Different story. But I mean, new equipment comes out every, every year, every month, a new piece of something comes out. Same problem always possible.  I'm like, I'm not saying it's not cool to have. And if you're rich, cool too. And you can afford to drop. There's nothing wrong with the tonal equipment. Yeah.  Well, okay. If you want legs. Yeah. No, no. What I mean is, what I mean is it's okay. Nothing wrong with in the sense for a workout, you know, thing it's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just the problem is not inventing new cool ways to work out. The problem is how do we get people to create a lifelong relationship with exercise and new equipment will not do that. It's not an equipment problem. No. And here, look, I've run gyms that were new. I've run gyms that were old. I've run gyms that were whatever. And the difference was always the team and the staff and the people that had nothing to do with equipment. I'd run old gyms that would outperform bigger, better gyms because it was all about how we made the members feel, how we could keep them to be consistent, how we could coach and train them. So unless you can create, and maybe this is happening, it's going to come soon, an incredible coach, which we were just talking about AI, maybe that'll happen. You'll have your fitness AI coach that's like an expert in psychology and how to like really get you to really understand, you know, what works or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to figure it out. The stickiness is going to be the same as it is with dumbbells, as it is with bands, as it is with whatever. So that's why Tonal is now dead. Yeah. I think it's just a matter of time.  It was bought out by Lulu Lemon. Yeah. Instantly cut their price. I think there's like $700 something for it. So I mean, they got it, they better hurry up. I mean, they're selling theirs at like $3,500 for the Tonal machine. And then their membership monthly is between $30 and $50 a month. Like that is unbelievably expensive. And then you have these other competitors that are selling and a very similar product. If you have a good relationship with exercise and your body, you need no equipment. You literally need no equipment and you'll be consistent and you'll. And that doesn't mean like these things aren't, I mean, we have, we have a Tonal in the gym inside here. Granted, it rarely gets used, but it's in there, right? They gave it to us. Yeah. If you have, if you have disposable income where having a piece of $4,000, you know, dollar equipment on your wall that you could grab. I mean, we promote trigger sessions all time, right? I mean, I would love to have a Tonal mounted on the side of one of my walls and I just go over there and grab it every once in a while and deal a little trigger session off it. And I think it's cool. It'd be really cool for that. And it takes up hardly any space. We can use bands. Yeah. You could. Yeah. The Tonal looks cooler, right? It looks cooler and you can do more stuff on it than just a set of bands. And so, yeah. But I mean, for the average person and to your point, the reason why we're obese is not because we have a lack of certain gym equipment or accessibility to certain gym stuff. No. Like we can get in shape with no equipment whatsoever. So that's what we always knew. And it's like this is, and the price point for that just didn't seem realistic. All right. Staying on the kind of health and fitness front. I saw a post on Twitter the other day and I'm realizing that the argument around ultra process foods, because we know ultra process foods, you know, not good for you, promote obesity, et cetera, et cetera. The argument now is starting to get twisted. And I think it's being twisted because the process food market is probably trying to fight back. And so here's how it goes. It goes like this. Ultra process foods can be very healthy. Look at these foods over here. Look at the macros. Look at the proteins. Look at the fats. Look at the carbs. This is a very healthy ultra process food. And that completely misses the, the problem. The problem with ultra process foods isn't necessarily the fact that they're inherently unhealthy because it is true that some of them are healthier than others. That's not the problem. The problem is that ultra process foods are engineered to make you overeat. That's it. That's it. And healthy food is unhealthy if you overeat it. So the fact that it can be healthy, that doesn't matter. It's the fact that most of the research and development and money that goes into ultra process foods goes into making them so desirable, so addictive that they overcome your, your ability to know when you're full or when you have satiety. And unless you're tracking every calorie or gram, you're not going to know. If you go based off of how you feel, and the studies are clear on this, if you go based off of how you feel, you'll end up eating five to 600 more calories a day. And that, that'll make you overweight, which is unhealthy. And it doesn't matter if it's healthy or not. Yeah. You got to increase that bottom line.  And like it's almost a compulsion at that point. That's the money desired outcome is like, I want to feed that because then I'm going to move products. So it's just in their best interest to do that when we know that that affects us in terms of our own behavior of how we approach food. All of it, all of it goes into making the food irresistible, everything from the color to the taste to the texture, to the residue it leaves on your fingers, the aftertaste. I mean, I can't even think of all the things that go into it, but if you look at a majority of ingredients in ultra-processed food, they're in there specifically to improve or increase palatability. And so they've become ultra palatable, hyper palatable.  That's not true. We have signals that tell us when we're hungry. We have signals that tell us to stop eating. So technically you could very well become obese on healthy food on, should I say, excuse me, non-processed, whole natural food. You can become obese on it. It's just way harder. It's way harder. You'll hit palate fatigue. You'll hit satiety much sooner. Ultra-processed foods, you don't. And so this is what makes ultra-processed foods and that's what makes them unhealthy. It's not the ingredients. It's not the fact that there's more sugar or calories or whatever. It's just you overeat them. So you could have the exact same macro profile and the same calories. If your diet is ultra-processed foods, you're going to want to eat more. If it's whole natural foods, you'll want to eat less. That's all. That's just the bottom line. That's the argument and that's the discussion we need to have because otherwise what happens is they twist it and they say ours is healthy but ours is whatever.  I'm just saying be aware because I think there's some value. Look, there's value in ultra-processed food. It's got long shelf life. It's convenient. Like you could travel with it. I get it. But don't let them make the wrong argument. That's an old technique that people will use to get your eyes off of the actual problem. And the problem is not that it's healthy versus unhealthy. The problem is it's super palatable. And if I eat a lot of it, I'll just overeat. Do you guys have some rules that you use for how you use or implement processed foods? Because obviously everybody in here eats processed foods. So we're sitting here telling people whole foods, whole foods, whole foods. And that doesn't mean that all of a sudden somebody could take a picture of us eating some processed thing out of a wrapper and you would catch us in red-handed. Like we don't do that. Everybody in here at one point, either in the day or for sure in the week, consumes some sort of processed food. So how do you reconcile that?  Yet you know you utilize processed foods.  Like how do you manage that and allow it to come in and out of your life? Yeah, it's not, I don't have any hard rules but I would say the vast majority of my diet is whole natural foods. So the vast majority of my diet is like one ingredient type of foods with seasoning. So I almost always never have a meal where it's ultra processed foods, especially not on a regular basis. That's just bottom line. Most people, it's the opposite. Most people, if you look at the average, about 70%. So if you look at all the food they consume, 70% is ultra processed. I think if you flipped it and made it like 10 to 20% ultra processed and 80%, 90% whole natural foods, I think that would, that would solve so much. Oh, I think if you just flipped it and did 70, 30, you'd be okay. Yeah. I think 70% more foods and 30% because of course, you know, our pre-packaged oatmeal that all of us eat on a pretty regular basis, that's considered processed foods. It is. The protein bar that Doug was eating just an hour ago. The beef jerky Justin was eating yesterday.  That's usually where it sneaks in. But it's sparing. Like as long as it's in that sort of sparing category and I pay attention to patterns more than anything of like what I'm doing constantly every day because you know, that's where it's like, okay, if this keeps coming up and it's sneaking its way in, I have to like address that and then, you know, make a different decision based off of that, you know, that's a little more leaning to whole foods. But the main majority of my meals are usually whole foods. I set it up that way and then that kind of just sneaks in every now and then. Yeah, that's kind of my thing, right? So I try and always make sure I get like either three to five because that's kind of the range of how many meals I eat in a day. Whole foods. Like three to five of my meals are, you know, prepared by Katrina and I or I've bought it from somewhere that it's whole food, right? Steak, rice or like I was eating earlier beans and steak and tortillas and stuff like that. I'll do things like that. But if I'm on the go or I'm like in a hurry, something like that and I want to have a protein bar or I want to use the oatmeal or the beef jerky as a snack in between those whole meals, like it's not a big deal to me. But what I want to stay away from is like processed meal followed by a processed meal. Like to me that leads to a really tough time with appetite control. Always. And by the way, I know because I've done competitions where I've tried to measure something.  So long as I'm perfect on making sure that it's the same. You're tracking. Tracking. But the discipline to stay tighter on the diet is harder. Just because it doesn't, it actually does not suppress the appetite like whole foods do for me. When I eat processed food, like my body goes right through it. I'm hungry. Start reaching around for other items. Yes. Or you want to eat more of it. And so that's the bad part of it. And I think that's the part that people have to accept or understand is like nobody is sitting on here trying to demonize processed foods. 100% all of us in here utilize them. But be aware of how your body breaks that down, uses it and what it does to you when it comes to appetite control, which that has a direct effect on your behaviors. And we talk about behaviors all the time being like the number one thing that is going to cause you to gain weight or lose weight.  Yes, it is on a macro perspective and calories, but they're not all equal. I have a rule that if I am and eat a processed food meal that it's protein heavy. That's the one thing that I'll do is I'll choose a protein heavy processed food because protein by itself is more satiety inducing. That doesn't mean that the processed food isn't also still going to make me hungrier. But if it's a majority of protein, if it's a high protein. Like a beef turkey stick. Yeah, you're not going to, you typically don't overeat that, right? Unless it's because of the protein content, you know, type of deal. Speaking of whole natural foods and protein, we're mentioning butcher box today. I want to ask you guys, what's the most common, because I have now switched my box and a lot of it is the tri-tips. I ate a lot of tri-tips. Do you guys find yourselves going super variety or do you find yourself going like two, three? Tri-tips, New York steak, a lot of beef chuck, like, you know, for burgers and whatnot. Yeah, I'll do that just because of the versatility of what we can make with it, but that's usually big in my box. I'm terrible. I'm like the same thing. What is it? Yeah, so I do, the ribs are, I think the best. You still do that all the time. Oh, they're pork ribs. And I have actually tested all kinds of other places. It's the heritage pork, dude, it tastes the first one. We're good. And I don't know, they cook the best, they fall off the bone, so that's consistently in there. We actually get our chicken from there, too. So we do, so I would say the pork ribs, the chicken, and then we normally have a couple of fillets in there are probably my standard box. And then every once in a while, Katrina will try, she did something recent, I don't remember what she changed up. I do tons of tri-tip, tons and tons of tri-tips. They're just so, they cook real easy, real well, slice them up, they're good the next day. Yeah, I have to ask her if the last time that we've done a tri-tip from there, but I'm quite the creature of habit. Once I have like something that works, we're using all of it, it's like, Same here. Yeah, I have to like go in there and actively change it. Speaking of appetite, a peptide is making huge waves right now. Oh, dude. Some of the glue tide is blowing up everywhere. It's okay. So I was just, while we were talking, I was trying to find the damn article. Somebody DM'd it to me to ask me about it. And I'm like, oh my God, we already talked about this. But the article had me rolling because it was promoting the, it said like a new weight loss jab that is all the, oh, right? And You read this to me, I was cracking that. It says, you know, this is become, this is known to be unbelievably or super effective when paired with calorie restriction and exercise. Well, you're actually doing all the right things. You know what else works really well with that too? Water.  Everything. Yeah, calorie restriction and exercise and guess what? You're going to get in shape. So to be fair, okay, now to be fair, some of glue tide happens to be probably the only weight loss, whatever that I've ever seen that actually seems to work. It actually seems to work. So in the data, they'll give people some of glue tide and they lose 10 to 20% of their body weight without trying to do anything else, without trying. Now I think you're going to be, a doctor would be irresponsible to not promote anything else, but it's seeing, it causes weight loss by itself. And how does it do this? I mean, you could go through all the complicated, improves insulin sensitivity and glucose management and all that stuff. But one of the big reasons is it just makes you eat less. Okay. Appetite is reduced. Okay. So it's an appetite suppressant. Okay. So right now. It's not a stimulant. It's not like taking something that makes you wired or anything like that. Okay. So because it's a peptide, explain to me what stops a Pfizer from patenting their version of this, naming it whatever they want to call it and it becoming... It's already owned by a company, I believe. I want to say, I think there's going to be pharmaceutical companies selling it. Yeah, these peptides get patented, right? I believe so. So we interviewed an expert on peptides. That episode will be coming out at some point, but he explained the difference between peptides and drugs. Peptides are signaling mechanisms between cells that we've identified already. So they're natural signaling mechanisms, whereas drugs are created in order to force a cell to do what you want. So then based off of that, I think they're not patented. That's a good question, Adam. Maybe Doug, you can put up some aglutide and see if a pharmaceutical company's selling it or what the deal is. So yeah. So what are they patenting? Right away, what I think is that, okay, here, something like this door opens and you leave it to a company like Pfizer that has an unbelievably marketing power, arguably the most powerful company as far as its marketing ability to reach more people.  And now you have got this, the most powerful weight loss drug that we have seen and it now opens the door. Well, here's what's interesting about some aglutide from what I'm reading is it's not a stimulant, so other appetite suppressants in the past, remember Fen Fen and that kind of stuff, it would be like taking a stimulant, right? So that's why ephedra would do that too. Yeah. Some aglutide doesn't do that. It doesn't seem to wear off, so it always, it'll suppress your appetite. It also is muscle sparing. Here's what's really crazy. In the weight, the weight loss is fat loss. It's not muscle loss. So it has some muscle sparing effects.  Does it attribute to the insulin sensitivity? That and then the appetite suppression. So it has some muscle sparing effects through that and then I think just through the fact that it makes people... You know how it's an even simpler way to know how effective it is? It's expensive. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think it's like 1,000 or 1,500 bucks a month. Not cheap, dude. That's why most people... Oh, that actually works. If most people could get their hands on real HGH, right? They would take it with all... I mean, most all of your super famous actors are all on Dr. Prescribed HGH. It is literally like the youth hormone. It's a fountain of youth to get a hold of that, but it's ridiculously expensive. This is up there in expense, right? What'd you find, Doug? So it is patented by Novo Nordisk. Oh, okay. It's a number of different brand names. Can we invest it? Cosemic, Wagovie. I did already. You did? I did. I bought it a while ago. I bought some shares, I think, in Novo. Really? Yeah. Can you look at the ticker for us? You did not tell us. Of course I did. I think it's just Novo. You tell us everything when you made your money. No. It's like you did... Hey, by the way, you shouldn't...  You got this. What was the big one you cashed out on? That was before I knew you guys. Yeah, yeah. How about that one? G.W. G.W. No. You know, growth hormone, growth hormone releasing peptides are going to probably crush growth hormone. So instead of buying expensive growth hormone, you buy inexpensive growth hormone releasing peptides and rather than, you know, messing with your hormone system and potentially causing things like insulin resistance and whatever, your body just makes it more of its own and there's a limit.  When I was talking to the guys at Transcend, I don't know how true this is or not, but they were making claims that that using that could, is like similar to taking, I think... Two IUs? Yeah. I think he said two to four IUs. I read that. Oh, you read that too. Yeah. So they... So when I, when I've taken HGH several times and, and there was definitely a time when I believe I had some watered down China shit and then there was time when I had like the pharmaceutical grade and when I was taking the pharmaceutical grade, that's all I took was like four, four or five IUs a day and you could definitely feel a difference. I don't think you'll get up to four. So when I'm looked at the studies is... But even what I'm saying though is that like you, I felt four to five IUs like...  I have started it, but I got it. I know why you haven't started it. You just don't want to mix it. I got to mix it. I just don't have time. I mean, that was just like two days ago. Give me, give me some days here. I'm gonna... Yeah, bring it and I'll do it for you. Well, I got the... I'll mix it up for you. I got the ACG and I've done all that stuff. So I just got to do it. Like, I got to get... I started the DHECSA, I started the... What was the other? CMAX. CMAX and I started the... What is the other one that they have me... Oh, on DHEA. So I have DHEA, DHECSA and then the CMAX or the three of them. I have no idea what they're all for. So if you go... So we... They're our partners. So if you go to mphormones.com and then you can do a consult with them and talk to them about some of the stuff. And they have... I mean, they can work with all these different peptides. It's very interesting. It's very interesting when you look at the date on how they work. But yeah, growth hormone releasing peptides, from what I've seen, when they show the rise in growth hormone, it's equivalent to like one and a half, two IUs of growth hormone. So not bodybuilder doses by any means, but enough to where you're gonna get like this youth effect. So if you're over, you know, 35, 40, after three, four, five months, you should notice a difference in things like your skin, hair. You should caution people though. It's not cheap. Like there's... I don't think I've seen one... Some are more expensive than others. I know some of the glutides expensive. Very expensive. Yeah. I think some of the growth hormone releasing peptides are a lot less. But I mean, look, here's the deal. It's still not... It's still not...  So peptides, especially when you're monitored by a doctor, they work. So it's a different...  It's obviously expensive because it fricking really works. Yeah. It wouldn't be able to get away with selling it for that expensive. It didn't work very well. It just doesn't happen. But no, I'm curious. Like I'm on day four, three or four of that, and then I'll start the... What's it called? The growth hormone releasing. Yeah. Thank you. What's it called? What's the actual... Test of Maryland. Yes. It's Test of Maryland. That's what... It's both. So they make some... So, okay. So Test of Maryland is what I'm taking now. Now, I've taken IW... Test of Maryland, Ipa Maryland is the combo that they gave you. So it's both in one. Okay. Okay. Ibutamorin is similar to ghrelin. And that'll raise growth hormone through a different mechanism. I've tried all of them, right? So I've known the Test of Maryland, Ipa Maryland right now. And before I did Ibutamorin. Ibutamorin made me hungry. And it felt like a mass builder. Like I gain size on it. I get crazy pumps, but it makes me hungry. So if you're trying to go on a cut, I don't... There's no way I could do a cut on Ibutamorin. On a bulk, it would be awesome. On a bulk, Ibutamorin would be amazing. And it makes... So what I thought I could not... I thought I could not. I slept like a baby on it. On Ibutamorin? Yes. Yes. The Test of Maryland, Ipa Maryland much milder is what I'm noticing, but I'm not getting the appetite boost at all. So which is, again, if you're trying to maintain your... Does it matter when I take that at night or morning? You're supposed to take it at night to mimic growth hormone. So similar to that. But I take it first thing in the morning because I work out fast. I don't eat anything for like three or four hours. So I take it first thing in the morning. And the reason why I do that is I notice it actually interrupts my sleep at night. So I have it. So now I've heard that from people. Some people, that'll be the case. Yeah, I was talking to my mother-in-law. She's taking it. And she was saying that she noticed it keeps her up a little bit. Yeah. So I told her it's not that big of a deal to take in the morning. They recommend just like HGH. They recommend at night time.  And it's like taking nothing because insulin and growth hormone approach to it. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I'm excited for that. Doug, do you know when you're going to release that yet? Do you have any idea on the dates? I don't, but it's going to be in the next couple of weeks. Yeah. That was a really, that was, I wasn't to be honest, I wasn't excited about that episode, but I really enjoyed the conversation. It was super informative. Yeah. I think in the next 10 years, peptides are going to blow most, many medications out the water. That's like the next huge frontier. Hey, we work with a company called Organifi. They have plant-based supplements to improve your health, athletic performance. They have supplements like a green juice that's really effective, making you feel better, especially if you lack vegetables or greens in your diet. They have plant-based protein powders.  By the way, speaking of stimulants, they have a new product called peak power that you can drink before you work out or before you need any creativity. It's got some caffeine, but it also has some other botanicals in there that improve the feelings of euphoria, energy and creativity. Anyway, go check this company out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump for 20% off. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Dan from the UK. Dan, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. You got it. First off, yeah. I'm a big fan of listening to your podcast. I also picked up Sal's resistance book and both have kind of really helped shaped my understanding of fitness and what I'm trying to achieve. So my main question is around basically, I was recently listening to an episode where you guys were talking about four different types of strength training. And I'm wondering, is it possible or even advisable to attempt maximal strength training five days a week, Monday to Friday without causing aches and soreness or kind of risk of injury? And just if you have any suggestions for someone who's trying to transition from moderate intensity resistance training to maximal. Yeah. Well, it depends on the person and how their body feels. I mean, there's definitely people that can train five days a week for maximal strength. But other people, it's just too much. You're really gonna have to feel it out and see how it works. Most people, Dan, do best about three to four days a week. Five days a week tends to be too much of high intensity type of strength training. If somebody does go to the gym five days a week, you're usually looking at two of those days being more recovery, mobility focused. So more along the lines of supporting the other hard three days. Does that make sense? Gotcha, yeah. Yeah. You can train for it five days a week. You have to... You gotta undulate your intensity. Yeah, you just gotta manipulate the intensity so that the goal can be maximal strength and I'm gonna lift five days a week. So the program, as far as the rep range, the exercise choice, the mindset going into the workout looks very similar, but you just scale back the intensity on at least two or three of those days.  And again, this depends on the person, right? So because you may find a sweet spot for yourself, Dan, and then find that that, at some point in your life, becomes too much or that you can do more. So it's just... The key with long-term success with exercise in general is to ask yourself why you're doing this. Is this improving the context of my life? Is this improving my life, the quality of my life in the context of my life right now? So that will help you adjust the intensity, the frequency, up or down, based on how you're feeling. But let's get more details, Dan. What are you doing in that five days a week right now that's making you feel way more... Yeah, what's your very specific goals and what are you trying to get out of this in terms of ramping up intensity that many days in a row? Is it mainly strength driven or is it endurance driven? Sure. I'll try to give you guys some more background. So I suppose my ultimate goal is body recomposition and my understanding is to achieve that through building muscle, to try and improve my metabolism to lower my body fat percentage. And the reason I go five days a week is largely because I enjoy the mental benefits a lot. It's a really nice way to start my day and I do moderate intensity so that I can turn up every day and also avoid injury because that's something I'm really worried about.  So yeah, that's the kind of place I'm at coming from. Okay, and are you following a specific program? So after listening to the Resistance Training Revolution book I checked out the YouTube channel and built a playlist for myself out of those videos.  And I'll mix it up day to day depending on how my body's feeling. Okay Dan, but right now you're saying you're feeling more aches and pains and soreness than you feel you should. Yeah, so previously at moderate intensity it was fine. After listening to that episode it seemed to make sense to try and increase my maximal strength. So I wanted to give that a go, but after like two or three days I thought this is just too much for me and not sustainable. So I think what you were saying about maybe the days in between just lowering it, taking it easy or focusing on mobility instead. Yeah, the other side of this is your diet as well. Are you hitting protein targets? Are you tracking calories? If you're in a cut this makes it even harder. Yeah, so I've only been tracking for a few weeks so I'm still trying to get used to the numbers. Carbs and fat tend to be split and I try to weight it towards protein so maybe around 40%. And let me just try. Are you hitting your body weight in protein? So 190 grams at a moment. So my body weight is 82 kilos, which I think is about 180 pounds. Oh yeah, yeah, no, that's good and sleep is good. So here's what I'm going to do, Dan, because we do provide people with all of the information that they would need to design themselves a good program that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be able to design themselves a good program though. So we're giving you a lot of the ingredients with a lot of explanations, but putting the pieces together takes another kind of level of experience and expertise.  I'm going to send you MAPS anabolic and I think MAPS anabolic is going to be perfect for what you're trying to accomplish. You could go to the gym three days a week. In between those days you'll do trigger sessions. One of those trigger sessions can be at the gym and then you could just do things like mobility. And I think that will probably give you exactly what you're looking for. Amazing. I really appreciate that. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for calling in. No worries. Take care. You got it. Yeah, I appreciate the thoughtful questions that way and obviously thinking his way through this and kind of listening to his body, because I know a lot of guys would just go through and be like, yeah, this hurts, but I'm just going to keep pushing. So I'm glad we have someone like that on the show asking those types of questions, but a little bit of soreness is okay, but you should feel good generally from your workouts. If you feel fatigued or excess soreness or achiness, that's not, what do they say, pain is weakness leaving the body or whatever. That doesn't mean you're moving in the right direction. You're doing too much somewhere, whether it's too much volume, too much intensity, too much frequency of workouts or all three. You should feel generally good. You should feel generally recovered and you should see incremental progress and things like strength and performance in the gym. What do you think the percentage of, you know, motivated lifters like this, someone is doing his research, building this program, you know, getting after it. What do you think is the percentage of people that are more likely to over-apply intensity instead of under? Someone like him who's a motivated person? Yeah, I would say a higher percentage. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Oh, of course higher. What I'm saying, I think, okay, like when I think about... I would say a majority. Yeah, when I think of the pool of my clients that I had and if we had to divide them in two categories of, you know, the really motivated, want to get after it, you know, group, and then the group that was like, you know, really challenged to even get to the gym and, you know, really doesn't like exercise. So if I were to divide them in two main groups like that, the group that, you know, never really worked out, doesn't really like to work out, doesn't really want to work out, but knows they need to work out, I tend, I would say that a majority of those, I always had to kind of encourage more intensity or increasing the way or, you know, oh, we got another rep we could do. So that's what I'd say about like in 80%, I'd say more like that. And then the same is true in the other group, but in the direction of over-applying intensity, right? I'd say that the group that is like really, like they're excited, they're motivated, they're willing to dedicate five, six days in the gym. They're doing their own research on what they should be doing, building their, I would say that 80% or more of those people actually tend to over-apply intensity. Well, and the over-achievers too, like I used to try, like if they were like five, six days a week or they'd just live in the gym, initially as a younger trainer, I'd try to like kind of scale that back and be like, you know, only show up like three days a week. Like you don't really need to do all that much, but you know, later on realize, you just need to keep them busy and active recovery is a big part of that whole process. So to have them just understand that you have to taper off that intensity and really like go through the movements, but approach it with a more restorative type of energy. And so to keep them busy though is crucial because they're so driven that they just need something to do everything. I actually had clients like that who would sneak in workouts in line with you. I'm like, what are you doing? But you know what is probably most common for everybody is they do both. What I mean by that is they'll get these little spurts of like motivation that's overdo it and then long bouts of like underdoing it. It's very hard to find to get someone to understand the proper application, which is neither too much nor too little and how to read those signals, how to read how their body's progressing, how they feel and how to determine. And by the way, advanced experience training or trainers or people find this balance to be challenging as well. But it's even harder for someone without experience. They tend to overdo it and then burn out or hurt themselves and then way underdo it type of deal. Our next caller is Josh from Texas. Josh, what's happening, man? How can I help you? Awesome. So I'm gonna go to my question first and then show my appreciation for y'all afterwards. So real quick and simple, the question is how does one determine their genetic limitations or gifts? So kind of how is there any test somebody can run on certain types of body parts? Like for me personally, I like to believe I have small muscle groups. So kind of like the traps, the calves, because I remember Adam, you used to say, you used to work your calves every day, you know, because you were insecure about them, right? So I kind of felt the same way. So there was like a whole month where I was spending all my calves, you know, whenever I was hitting upper body, hit calves, like I would always throw in calves. I would start off with my workout and I would do the same. And so I like to train boxing and kickboxing, right? So you're kind of using your arms a lot. So I like to, in my forearms, I feel like boxers tend to have bigger calves, you know, from junk and rope all the time, right? And then also smaller forearms too and traps. So it just seems like my small muscle groups tend to not grow with, they get defined, but they don't tend to get that like, that girth. So I don't know if it's a programming situation, my diet, or if it's just genetics. So, and if there is, if there are tips to work out these small muscle groups, like for my biceps, I feel like they're hard for me to grow because I got a short muscle head, right? I've even tried doing weighted reverse grip pull-ups for my biceps. I've done seated calf races, like jump ropes for like minutes on time, like 10 minutes at a time. So just kind of having trouble with these like small muscle groups, if that makes sense. What's your, are you boxing right now?  Give me an idea. So I, my new job schedule, I'm working four days, 6 p.m. to 6 a.m., right? So a long shift, don't get home. So I make sure to get my sleep and my nutrition. And so I eat pretty clean.  So tracking maybe 18 to 2,000 calories. So that could be a possibility. But I'm only five, seven, about 150 pounds. So am I training? I usually start off hitting the bag for like 30 minutes. And then I'll have days or weekends. I'll do, you know, a few hours of training, kind of get what I can and then do like 45 minutes of weight. Yeah, bro, you already answered your question for sure. The amount of activity, cardio and training in relation to the amount of calories you're eating is probably why you're having a hard time building.  You know, that's a lot of cardio. That's not a lot of calories. And to expect those small muscle groups to really grow is going to be tough. It doesn't mean you can't and you won't over time, but it's going to be a much slower process than if you would actually dedicate a, you know, training cycle to bulking and building those muscle groups. Right now you're sending a competing signal with probably the high intensity cardio. You're eating lower calorie. You're training quite a bit. Like, yeah, it's a lot to ask your body to also build in an area that you already know is kind of stubborn areas for you. So if you really, really want to build those small areas, calves, you would want to dedicate a program or a cycle of few months of bulking and training to build muscle primarily. Yeah, add a thousand calories a day to your diet. Watch what happens. 500 to a thousand, watch what happens. But look, I'll tell you this. Here's the big question, right? The big question that you asked, because I'm going to narrow it all down and just synthesize it to this, which is, is my lack of progress due to my genetics or is it due to my training, diet, and lifestyle? Here's why I don't think that question ever needs to be asked because if it is genetics, there's nothing you can do about it. So why is that important? Because why focus or worry about what you can't control? It's not like you can change your genetics. So the question should never be, the genetics of question is well, what can I do or what do I have control over that can potentially move me in the right direction? That's the real question. Genetics are there. You're born, you didn't choose your parents, so you've got those genes. So then look at your training, look at your diet, look at your sleep and your lifestyle and what are things you can do. And right out the gates, number one, Adam hit the nail on the head, eat more calories. Now, you might find it's hard for you to eat more calories because you might already find that you're kind of feeling like you're stuffing yourself now. If that's the case, add liquid calories. That's a real easy way to do it. You know, shakes in between meals or a big shake right before bed or something like that. But you add another 500, 700 calories a day consistently to your diet. You'll put on some size. You'll gain a little bit of size, for sure, just from doing that. Yeah. So I do check my protein. I do eat about 150, sometimes 160 grams of protein. So I make sure to get my protein. I don't know if that helps me maintain my muscle that I have or if I even just go over. It helps. Now, if you're hitting your protein targets, which is good, but your calories can still be too low. Yeah. Okay. So protein is important, but so are calories. You got to have both because if your calories are not enough to gain any type of size, you're just going to burn what you're consuming, even if your protein intake is high. Now, high protein intake is going to take your total calories or whatever you're eating and nudge it towards muscle. So in other words, if you eat 2,000 calories, low protein, 2,000 calories, high protein, if you compare the two, high protein is going to be more effective. But nonetheless, you're finding it's challenging to gain weight and your protein intake is good. You just add more calories. I mean, you can do it with more protein, fat, or carbs, or all three. At this point, I would say add, if you find it difficult to eat more, like let me ask you this, Josh, do you feel like you can eat more? Do you feel like you're already like kind of stuffing yourself? I definitely feel like I throw in a 500-calorie shake for sure just because my job, I am walking quite a bit. So I'm not sure how much calories I'm burning, but I'm walking probably close to like 20,000 steps. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I really think it's a matter of your training right now. Like if you have it really like abruptly change, the drastic change in terms of like, there's two different types of muscle fibers that we're working with here, and like to shift it over more towards fast twitch and to be able to really work on the strength training block and building, like a building phase to develop these muscles that you're seeking, you know, you're not going to see a whole lot of movement in that direction if it's, you know, distracted a lot by the endurance side of the training. So, you know, if this is something like you really desire this outcome to abruptly stop and shift that training completely in that direction is, you know, something to really consider. How important is it to you that you maintain your boxing and that you're, you know, that you keep doing that? Is that something you really enjoy doing? Yeah, it definitely brings me happiness. Definitely have to, definitely have to have it in there. Okay. What my lifestyle I'm trying to build is around boxing, like my future goals and plans and aspirations, whatever you want to call it. Oh, really? So, you have goals of boxing, like maybe professionally at some point? Actually, not necessarily that I've competed before. It's been a while because, you know, work and all that. But I actually want to start coaching people in boxing, kind of like a structured around boxing, kind of give people to get them into exercises based around boxing, kickboxing, you know, martial arts in general. Oh, cool. How many days a week do you train in boxing and kickboxing? So, I work for four days. I don't work often until about like Saturday morning. So, usually the weekend, Saturday night, Sundays and Mondays and Tuesdays, Tuesday morning before I get back to work. So, about four days. Four days a week of what is like an hour? An hour worth of boxing type training? About an hour of weightlifting in about 30 minutes or so of a hit bag and network or doing some sparring. Oh, also on those four days, you're doing an hour of strength training and then 30 to 40 minutes. He starts to work out with half hour of pit in the back. You missed that part? Yeah, no, I got that. I'm just trying to, yeah. Or even more probably now that I think about it truly, like being honest, like probably close to another hour. Like, because my work day is so like those 12-hour shifts, I just like kind of prepare for work, milk prep my food. When I do have time for the gym, it's like, dang, I just want to throw it all in there. Yeah, lots of stalls throughout the day. Yeah, yeah. So, you're doing that four days a week. The other three days a week should be recovery-based. So, don't do any more working out. Bump your calories and then you'll see yourself gain some size. That's it. I mean, there's a way to gradually get to your desired outcome. So, to be able to incorporate the skills of boxing and not dismiss that or put that aside in terms, if that's like your priority, obviously we're going to need to incorporate that. So, but those other days where you're just exclusively focused on strength training and building, that's kind of where you need to go. Would you suggest a type of hour type of strength? A type of like five by five or, you know, like my weight lift, is it heavy weight, low reps, while I'm doing, you know, the boxing type of workout? I actually think that MAPS 15 would actually benefit him. Let's send you MAPS 15. Yeah. And because you might be doing too much strength training, to be honest with you. Yeah, well, in combo and everything, it's tough to kind of parse that. I mean, yeah, the strength training exclusively, like that day should be just by itself. So, yeah, I, in terms of the skill, we'd have to also be able to kind of taper down the intensity of when you're doing your endurance type training. But yeah, like what they're trying to get to is like, how can we, how can we structure this in a way where your body's not doing too much? So like kind of reducing, I guess, the time length and that's where MAPS 15, MAPS 20, I guess on our advanced blueprint with that would make sense in terms of like strength training. And then the other days you're doing your skills. Yeah. If you're going to train, if you're going to do your boxing on the same day you're doing lifting, I would definitely like to see you do the boxing after you're lifting. And I'd like to see you refuel between. So I'd love to see you do like a shake, you know, right after your lifting routine before you go into boxing for a little bit. And I don't know how much that you're going to like that as far as how it'll, but I mean, you, the amount of activity. At least drink some carbs. Yeah. I mean, I just think that the amount of activity that you're doing, you need to support it with some, some more calories. And if we can scale back intensity like Justin's saying. So we'll send you MAPS 15. So you'll have something else to look at and follow. Okay. Awesome. Thank y'all so much. You got it, man. Yeah. My appreciation at last time real quick. As a young 20 year old kid, I really look up to y'all about, you know, just more than health and fitness, more kind of a good person. And my biggest goal honestly in life is to be the dad. I've never had, and y'all are like peripheral models for me. I take your advice to heart. And I just picture myself being a better dad to my future kids when I'm older and y'all teach me like, you know, funny investing too. Y'all just helped me out a lot. Just being great influences for a young like me. So thank you so much. Thank you, Josh. That's a huge compliment. Thank you, man. Thank you. Get me emotional at the end there. This is the classic want my cake and eat it too. Hey man, you know what though? I mean, he's got a tremendous athletic performance ability to be able to do all of that. I've worked with boxers. He's young and resilient. So it's kind of one of those things.  Just not eating enough for all of that activity. That and or just understand that the goal, yeah, the goals are competing, you know, being a great box. And obviously that's very important to him.  But the truth is, if you really wanted to build your traps and calves, cutting out boxing and limiting that or, you know, really pulling back on the intensity, increasing calories would be the most effective path to get there.  Like so. Okay.  And by the way, the ones that do are anomalies. So they have those genetic, they had those, they probably looked like that when they were 12. You know what I'm saying? So you don't see boxers. I usually don't bet on them. They're usually the ones that get knocked out. Except for Evendor Holyfield, he looked like a lot of them. Oh yeah, that's the same thing. You know, here, along those lines, when you look at an athlete and you look at their body parts and you say, oh, it's the sport is causing that. At that level, what's happened is they're genetically built in a particular way that, that gives them an advantage at that sport. That's why they look the way they do. It's not that the sport developed. So, you know, he talked about calves. In fact, if you look at boxers, they tend to have high short calves. Kickboxers tend to have long calves. Why is that?  You're kicking. You want mass on your lower leg to give you more power. When you're a boxer, support. Yeah. And when you're a boxer, you short, just like sprinters, you see, they typically have short calves as well. You want mobility. You want power, but you want mobility. That doesn't mean if you kickbox, you'll, your calves will get longer. If you box, your calves will get shorter. They're just built at that level. When you look at that level of athletic, you know, that level of performance, you're looking at people who work hard, consistent, but they also have the genetics that, that puts them in a category that makes them better at that particular sport or built better for that particular sport. So, I want to make that point because as a kid, I did the same thing. I would look at a sport and be like, oh, that's, I gotta do that sport to look that way. No, that's not how it works. Our next caller is Andrea from Indiana. Andrea, how can we help you? Hi. Thanks for taking my question today. I've been listening to you guys for a while. I really enjoy the content. Also, I recently got the RGB bundle, which I'm digging. So again, thanks, Tom. You guys are doing great work. Awesome. Thank you. So my question is regarding nutrition. I've been tracking my macros for about six years. And for the majority of it, I've generally followed a 40% protein, 30% carb, 30% fat diet. And I'm very routine based. So I eat pretty much the same thing every day, except for occasional vacations and holidays. And so I'm just curious if there's any advantage to changing up your nutrition plan outside of changing the amount of calories. So more like in terms of macro percentages or types of proteins. Oh, good. Absolutely. Great, great question. Yes. The answer is yes. There definitely is value. There's a couple places where you'll find value. One is in learning how to read the signals, because when you get so caught in a routine of eating in a particular way, you tend to lose touch with how your body feels eating other things. Okay. Potentially. So I see value in people trying different diets to see, wow, when I go really low carb, I notice improvements in my cognitive performance or when I bump my carbs, I have better performance in the gym. Or when I switch protein sources from let's say, turkey to ground beef or to fish, I notice more or less inflammation or better recovery or better digestion. So there's that. There's also potential, you could potentially be developing food intolerances from eating the same things over and over again. So let's say you have a little bit of gut inflammation. That could cause proteins or amino acids to leak through the gut. And you could create some kind of mild immune reactions to the types of foods that you eat. This is why you'll see people with gut issues when they do gut testing or intolerance testing. They'll find that all the things that they eat, they're intolerant to. Well, it's because they eat them all the time. So their body's now developed kind of this immune response to those types of things. So wellness professionals or experts or people like Paul Check, who I would consider to be the godfather of the wellness space, advocates rotating food specifically just for that reason. So those are two big reasons why I would say it's a good idea to rotate through those things. You know, I used to love to take my clients through like all popular diets. And then as we go through that process, I'd be constantly questioning them like, you know, what do you feel and what do you like about this or what do you don't like? And because I think in the context of your life, you know, not always being exactly the same, I tend to like to eat different ways based off of my situation.  And so as you get to rotate through these different diets, you start to go, oh, you know what? Like I don't have to be eating this way exactly the same all the time. I find value in, you know, changing the diet up today because I'm going to be flying all day long or I'm not going to have access to a lot of things. So I'm going to, or I know that when I eat with more carbs, I tend to crave more foods.  Like so there's, there's a lot of value in doing this, aside from also just, you know, like Sal said, with potentially eliminating foods that you could have an intolerance to that you don't realize. Yeah, I do want to give you credit though. I think as trainers, we try to get our clients into the phase where you're in terms of like understanding your body on that level of like what works and, you know, where your homeostasis is in terms of like what, you know, your meals consist of that works best. But now, you know, after being there for so many years to be able to optimize that and kind of go venture in these other directions because there are, you know, diets that, that, that lend better towards different benefits.  I think, you know, there's, there's, there's gotta be some benefit to that as well. Yeah, I'll tell you what, like I'll give you an example, Adria, if I know that I'm going to be on some big podcasts and I'm traveling, I will eat a particular way to that I've identified for myself that maximizes my sharpness, my cognitive performance. If I know I'm going to have a particular type of workout and, or I want to hit a PR, then my diet will change based on that. If my sleep is off, if my digestion is in a particular way, then I'll adjust my diet in those ways. So basically what you're doing is you're taking, you're getting a much more broad whole picture of how your body is affected by different foods. So when you do change to something else, pay attention to how you feel. Don't marry it. Just pay attention to how you feel. And then throughout your entire life, you'll get a better idea of how to eat based off of the context of your life and your goals and what you're looking to accomplish. It's a really cool place to be when you do it that way. That's kind of the route towards what I would loosely define as intuitive eating. Especially since you've been very consistent with, and you really have got your macros dialed and you've been doing this for a long time. So it's easier for someone like you to measure how these different ways of eating is affecting you versus somebody who never eats consistently at all a certain way, it's hard for that person to pinpoint, oh wow, when I do increase this, I really notice the difference in my sleep or some of the things south of them. So it's actually like Justin said, you're in a great place because you have built this consistency of tracking and paying attention. So now to start to manipulate and play with that, like you're the perfect client to really make them become more aware of how they're eating intuitively. Yeah, that's awesome. I didn't realize that you could actually develop intolerances just by eating the same thing. So I'd be curious to find out. And what I think I'll do is just throw it on a 180. Like I eat a lot of eggs and they leave a lot of ground turkey. And so maybe filtering in a lot more fish and ground beef and just see how I feel. Along those lines, it's actually almost always that. It's very common. And it's almost always the favorite food. Yes, that we wouldn't, you wouldn't think. So that's, I think that's one of the most interesting things. There's been many times where I've had clients who didn't realize that the food they eat every single day that they thought agreed with them didn't so much. You know, there was like this thing like, you know, I have a client who'd be like, yeah, you know, I just, I always feel like I have this little bit of a pooch or I just, unless I'm waking up first thing in the morning, my stomach's flat in the morning, but then I just feel like I'm bloated kind of all day, but not real bad, but just kind of, and then all of a sudden we change a food that was a favorite food or a food they eat every single day out of there.   Sometimes it's very subtle like that, but then they see a difference in the way they look and feel. Yeah. Awesome guys. Thanks so much. You got it. Thanks for calling in. You had to go a little deeper into that for people who are like, huh, how does that work? You're like, why, why, why does that make sense? And then there's the gut inflammation, which can be caused by lots of different things, lots of stress, over exercise, lack of sleep, hormone changes, whatever the gut is affected by almost everything. When you have a little bit of inflammation in the gut, the junctions in the, in the wall of the gut, you get a little bit of spacing in between them and they become leaky. This is the term leaky gut syndrome, right? The medical term now is intestinal wall hyperpermeability, I think is what they'll say.  And when your body sees that, it identifies it, oftentimes it creates an immune response. It's like, it's like, it's like a call to arms.  And you can almost get used to this reaction and now realize that the food that you're eating is causing this until you eat it. And then all of a sudden you feel less bloated, more energy, just generally better. So this is why the foods you eat all the time are typically the ones that you'll develop in a tolerance to because they're the ones that your body is mounting this reaction to. So switching them out allows your body to kind of give it a break. It brings inflammation back down. And then you can reintroduce those foods again. Yeah, I always, I always thought it was a good idea to rotate food anyway. And like, I always liked the idea of to go with what's in season in terms of like, because nature just has this way of providing the right types of nutrients for certain seasons where you don't get a lot of sun or, you know, like there's a lot of like colds and viruses out there and like things to combat that. So to kind of follow that natural pattern I think is something to consider. But it is a lot more mentally simplistic to keep this kind of regimen of what works. Well, there's also micro nutrients and eating the same food. If you eat this, even if they're good foods and they fit your macro profile, you're eating the same kind of micro nutrients all the time. And there's benefits to lots of different micro nutrients. And so what you might find is that you're not, and that it's not enough to make you fat or not be able to build muscle or what like that. But your body, yeah, your body may be craving and needing it because you are low on it and you don't even realize you're low and you don't think you're fat because your macros are in line and simply by rotating through that food and getting something else introduced in there, you pick those micro nutrients up and then all of a sudden you go, oh my god, I feel a little bit better, that's weird. My macros are the same. I'm doing the same training exercise. Well, maybe you were lacking in these micro nutrients because you ate X, Y and Z all the time and you needed this and now you got it. And so you feel different. Our next caller is Billy from New York. Billy, what's happening? I'm going to ask you for all the information and entertainment you provide. I've been an avid listener the last couple years so thank you for all the laughs and all the information that I can get from you guys whether that's to fitness or anything else going on in the world. You got it. Thanks Billy. So I had a question about first steps to get into the industry. My main question is should I get a personal training certification or go the nutrition route and get a level one certification with NCI? A little bit of background. I've been working out consistently the last three or four years at a big box gym and I know some trainers at that gym they all have their CPT through various certifications. But I've also listened to your show a while and I've heard plenty of people say they get more out of you guys than those certifications that they studied for. So as an outsider trying to get in the industry, I kind of look at the CPT as like a necessary evil. I have a level one certification and I am intrigued by that and I'm thinking about going that route. So I guess and I know you have a working relationship too with NCI and hold them in high regard. So can it be a hindrance for someone not to have their CPT or is that overblown or what are your guys thoughts? What do you want to do? Good question. You want to work at a big box gym, train people in person or do you want to coach people online? The more that I've thought about that, I think training people online would be pretty cool because just like this call, you can talk with anyone from anywhere in the country or the world for that matter. That's easy then. NCI. Here's why I go NCI if you're going online. Two reasons. One, the vast majority of training you're going to do online is going to be through nutrition. It's training people virtually fitness wise. When you're working with someone in person, you're going to want more of that kind of biomechanics understanding form understanding. Plus it's a requirement anyway. You go to a gym, they're going to require a national level what they would consider a national level certification. So NCI is easy for that reason and also because NCI and this is why we work with them, they teach coaches how to be successful. No other certification does this.   But yeah, how to not hurt someone and stuff like that. They teach you zero or almost zero on how to build your business.  That's like the biggest thing that the industry lacks is trainers get certified then they get thrown into the space nobody knows how to build their business. Make it a sustainable income and support myself. Those are like the most important factors and NCI is actually one of the only certifications I've seen that is really addressing that wholeheartedly and has like a lot of success stories to back it. Yeah, I mean this was the main reason why we partnered with them. We knew years ago the direction the fitness space was going as far as online coaching we think they're the best in the industry in that so that was kind of the no-brainer partnership. In a perfect world I think having both though would be for most beneficial you know what I'm saying? Like I think that the value you do get from you know, program building and going through like an actual national certification but if it was like I got a budget I got a certain amount of money or time to dedicate towards this right now where would I go first? Oh yeah, the stuff that you're going to get from you know NCI especially considering that you've already said that you're going to start or want to do it online like if you were going into a gym you would need the national cert and so that would be the obvious but you're going to get a lot of a lot of what you need just from NCI alone and then the fact that you listen to the show I mean I think we talk a lot about you know program design on the show so you get probably a good chunk of that from us and then NCI is going to really fill in the gaps. Yeah I think and we recommend I mean it kind of varies based off of like what you're trying to do what we would recommend but in terms of just like a general recommendation of national certification I still think NASM is probably one of your best bets in terms of just like a foundational understanding of anatomy and physiology and like you know at least gives you a lot of the the higher like understanding of what you're trying to do but in terms of programming and really getting to that individual application I think CPPS is your best bet with that. Here's what I'm going to do for you Billy I'm going to help you out okay Maps Prime Pro and Maps Prime are extremely valuable to trainers and coaches if you don't have those I'll send those to you because you'll find those very valuable to work with people online so it's not going to teach you how to do a squat or a bench press or a deadlift I'm assuming you know how to do those basic exercises you've been working out for a while but it is going to teach you how to do correctional exercise and that is very valuable for any trainer so I'll send you those too and I'll say this Prime and Prime Pro are as valuable as most certifications in my opinion for a trainer who at least has a basic understanding of exercise if you have no understanding of exercise go with the certification if you have a basic understanding of exercise Prime and Prime Pro in my opinion are more valuable than most certifications in terms of application so I'm going to send you those two and those are those are worth more than some of those certifications and then I would go NCI. NCI is going to teach you how to be a good online coach and teach you how to build your business because there's a massive, massive percentage of certified trainers who don't train clients because they couldn't figure out how to make it a career they just couldn't figure it out because nobody taught them nobody coached them wow thank you thank you very much for that yeah I think I'm going to have a conversation too with my former trainer he actually was the one who put me on you guys he would use some of your videos when you would walk through the form of an exercise so when I first started working out from home during the pandemic he would send me those clips of you guys walking through that stuff so that's how I first got on to you and now I just bounced back and forth between anabolic and performance for myself and yeah just perfect kind of want to make a good change and feel like this would be a good place to start thank you very much awesome you got it man and hopefully we'll see you in some of those coaching sessions with NCI because we'll get on there with some of them so maybe we'll see you there sounds good thanks Billy yeah that's now I want to say this to people looking who are aspiring to be successful as coaches and trainers in the space ideally I think the route should be you train people in person yeah for a year you work in a big box gym why because the big box gym is going to provide you with the most opportunities and practice then you go online and work with a place like NCI that teaches you how to build your business I think that's a now that's a long approach and some people like I just want to get to it I get that but if you're like you want to have the best chance I think in person big box gym go NCI as well and that'll give you the best the best chance I think you could do it simultaneously you could yeah I've actually given advice to people in his position like how to build their social media around you know like how do you post when you're when you're starting something I started a new career like this and I you know let's you remember when you first start training you get one client yeah two or three you'll have a handful of clients that you get that normally the gym hands to you to get you started but what's great is that you know because it's it's all new for you it's new for the client that's training with you you know every day there's a teaching moment every day there's something that you learn as a coach or that you teach a client and that is what you should use to generate posts and content and so you're not only getting the practice with the hands-on in person you're also fueling the the content creation for what you should put out online which then will attract more people that you can help because you're already helping that person in real life and so it's a it is a slow process but I think it's one of the best ways to build your business the irony of that which is funny is the best coaches out there always trying to go back and retrace and find those moments that were had the most impact of like I learned this very simplistic thing and to be able to pinpoint that is really difficult once you get further in your career so to start with that in mind I think is a great just to hammer this home if this is what you want to do for a career it's a very very rewarding career if you love fitness and health but if you don't learn how to build a business within the space you will fail I'm just going to tell you that right now you will unless you're like hyper talented and gifted which is super rare you will fail so you need to place because trainers do this they place a lot of focus on learning how to be good trainers they place very little focus on how to build their business no no no you got to place a lot of focus on how to build your business or you will have to survive that's it 100% look if you like mine pump head over to mine pump free dot com and check out some of our guides we have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal you can also find all of us on social media so Justin is on Instagram at mine pump Justin Adam is on Instagram mine pump Adam you can find me on Twitter at mine pumps out today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong well developed chest when I think of weak points and in areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time chest was up there with the yeah it was for me it was for me for sure I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique