Let us move on from that one there. He is Simon Michelle, no mucking around into bonds. We go with some gusto, except there's a bit of a chink in that scenario. Political uncertainty has rather affected that 10-year note. Has it not in the U.S.? Yes, and look, it certainly has, and we've certainly seen some downward movement in yields. They're off about a quarter of a percent from their peak earlier this month. So fairly significant movement. The 30-year U.S. rate below 3% again down at 2.98. And this is really about people re-evaluating their expectation after the political turmoil we saw in the U.S. in relation to healthcare. What's that going to affect taxes? How's that going to affect fiscal policy? How's it going to affect growth? And how's that going to affect inflation? And all of those are being downgraded at the moment, and that's reflected in those lower yields. All right, some foam on the runway from the reserve bank by contrast, or just do nothing and wait for a real fire to emerge? I think the second... I think we're not going to see a lot of action. I think it's going to be a very, very quiet meeting next week. You know, let's face it, you know, the RBI would have to do something fairly major to take a bit of focus of what's happening in the U.S. at the moment, driving rates. So, look, I don't expect to see any move there. Look, interestingly, obviously, as the U.S. rates have fallen, the comparative margin of ours increases, the dollar increases on the back of that. So, you know, we're certainly, of the view, U.S. rates moving down is moving in the opposite direction of the RBI. What's intriguing is that we're at 76, 83, or thereabouts against the greenback. Now, career-fying wrong, May of last year, we got to cut at 77. So we're barely, what, less than 15 bips off that level, and we're not saying the reserve bank even has to insert an easing bias into the statement? Look, I think that, you know, what they've tried to do is they've tried to sort of stand on the sideline, really, essentially. And, you know, we have seen commentators calling for lower cash rates. We are equally seeing other commentators that just rates need to go up. But it's been really driven by central bankers around the globe, you know, by Europe still throwing money at the situation, by Japan, China seeing, you know, a couple of positive signs out there, and what the U.S. does. We've seen, you know, increase in December. Oh, you're exaggerating. This was meant to be the year of fiscal reform. Getting your house in order and actually doing, rather than basically outsourcing to central banks. It sounds as if someone didn't get the memo. Well, someone certainly hasn't got the memo. I mean, you're absolutely right. Central banks are still at the wheel, unlike, let's continue. I mean, we saw earlier this year, for example, the U.S., they're going to sit on their $4.5 trillion of treasuries, and not only are we starting to sell those down. So you're right, Carson, absolutely. All right, well, I mean, talk is one thing. But as we know, in the meantime, the commodity story that was looking so enviable, certainly for the ex-checker, is starting to look so, so ropy as it not. I mean, look at that oil price for one. This is true, absolutely. That's right. And that's certainly got an impact on growth moving forward and inflation, obviously, as well. And it's been a bit of a key driver to the softer, you know, expectations and that pullback that you've seen in, you know, in the U.S. We had one of the Fed members, Charles Evans, come out, and he sort of suggested that he doesn't really see U.S. core inflation getting up to the level that the U.S. is starting to build into its future forecast. So we are seeing some unwinding of that. Simon, it's now the time to be flirting with green bonds as our biggest home loan lender is doing. What do we make of this? The five-year green bond from CBA. In an environment of uncertainty, will there be significant long-term believers in this one? Well, it's interesting. I mean, CBA's the last of our four major banks to issue a green bond or a climate bond. These really have been issued on the back of demand from investors. So you have a lot of superannuation funds. You have a lot of private funds out there that really want to start bringing in a bit of an ethical screen on their investment. So we saw the first gender equality bond issued by one of the major banks a couple of weeks ago as well. And that, again, was driven by a lot of the super funds that want to start incorporating more social-responsible investment into their portfolios, not necessarily driven by the issuers. Yeah, call it ethical and she'll be right. Thank you, Simon. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Charles. What's very best? Simon and Michelle there from FIG. We take a really short break.


Using a mobile phone while driving is highly distracting and you are four times more likely to have a crash. Road safety is your future.


On the Independent National Electro-Commission, INEC plans to hold by-elections and re-run elections across Nigeria on February 1, 2024 to fill vacancies in the state and federal legislature. The Commission's Chairman, Professor Mahmoudia Kuboura, announced that after litigation, the courts have ordered re-run elections in 34 federal and state constituencies. By-elections will be held to fill vacancies created by resignation or death of members. An authentic date in timetable will be released after the meeting with party leaders. The purpose of this meeting is to brief party leaders on the Commission's preparations for the forthcoming elections to be held early in the new year. The elections are in two categories. First, the election petition appeal tribunals set up in the aftermath of the 2023 general election gradually wind up their proceedings, and as they do so, the Commission is required to conduct re-run elections in some constituencies by court order. Secondly, the Commission is also required to conduct by-elections to fill vacancies arising from the death or resignation of members of the national and state houses of assembly. So far, the election petition appeal tribunals have ordered the Commission to conduct re-run elections in 34 constituencies, made up of one senatorial district, 11 federal constituencies and 22 state assembly constituencies. The Commission is looking at the first week of February 2024, that is in just a little over one month, to conduct both the re-run and by-elections. At the end of this consultative meeting, the Commission will meet to review preparations and announce a definite date, including the detailed timetable and shadow of activities for the elections. Hello, hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


I watch the progression series every single week, 12 p.m. central Monday every week Just a really cool set and a great way to really preface one of if not the greatest set in Yu-Gi-Oh's history being dualist alliance and there it is ladies and gentlemen dualist alliance is next week I am so hyped for that that is going to be a blast but yeah I'm excited for next episode if there's a set that could force both of us to change our decks it's dualist alliance and I don't think we can say that about many sets be sure to tune in next time for the one year anniversary I still can't believe it's already been a year since we started this it's it's insane and it's going to be a great way to celebrate because dualist alliance is arguably one of the best sets ever created and I cannot wait to see what we pull out of that it's gonna be exciting to see I'm very excited to see dualist alliance just such an incredible set in Yu-Gi-Oh's history it's really gonna be interesting to see how it shakes up the progression series a few moments later yo dude this week one year anniversary progression series my house we watch it it's gonna be insane be there or be square happy birthday to the progression series I can't wait oh this is gonna be great I can't wait to watch this episode guys the one year anniversary it's gonna be so cool wait what wait where's the where's the new video it's Monday we got a filter okay newest no banless video but the progression series I gotta check Twitter okay let's see what you see if you tweeted anything okay okay it's okay he'll post it today it's the one year anniversary it's a hero dark bright


are one is clearly on a post We see the post the downtown district though Is it's not clear what that is? Yeah, so it just varies So some of them are located on city type structures, and then some of them they provided their own signposts You need a location of where to find these I Need some way Yeah, I can provide I can email a the two Location maps that we have thank you. I will get out there I will get out there this weekend and look and and with my tape my measuring tape and Camera etc etc. Yeah, they don't like if you were to put a requirement in there I would just say like post post post shall be of similar character to surrounding Context or something if you were to put anything Thank you for letting me do that All right, this item is for discussion and direction only no action will be taken on this item Where's my sheet saying and with that I'm adjourning the meeting Thank you very much


Good. OK. So the last guy, he was quite good. Machine learning is super interesting and super fun, and I do it for a living, and I'm happy about that. It makes for great talks like that other one. But in an 80-20 Pareto efficiency kind of way, that's just like, you do the mechanics of data science. It's like, get the data, clean the data, fit the model. 80% is like the drudge work. And I'm glad you came to join me and hear about the other 80%. So hassle-free ETL with PySpark. The 80% is not fun. Let's do it as easily as possible. First, me, command line humor. I'm Rob. I'm a data scientist at ZocDoc. If you don't know what ZocDoc is, think of it like an open table for doctor's appointments. You book online. Super easy. You want to see a doctor now. Awesome. You got it. I'm also a Corgi enthusiast. On the right, you'll see Ellie. She is a Corgi. She is also my pride and joy. Side note about ZocDoc, a little like the way that the company is cool with sending me here, is that let you know that we are hiring for machine learning engineer. I'd be super thrilled if one of you contacted me about that, because I also get a referral bonus. All right, so what do we want? Again, core premise here. We're lazy. We want easy. And that means being very needy. We want a lot of things. So we have all this data. We want to be able to access it, explore it, wander around a bit, find out what we want. Then we want to package something up nice and tidy, run it every day or whatever to automate our ad hoc stuff. If we want whatever company we're working for to survive, we better start planning for 100x and hope we get there, or else we just fade away. So we're going to need scalability. And again, lazy. We want to reuse code. That's what code's for. Compartmentalize stuff, plug it into other places. So the name didn't give it away. Part of the hassle-free part is the PySpark part. And we can check off ease of access and scalability in a couple of steps. One of Databricks, Jupyter or Zeppelin, take your pick. I don't care. No bias here. Hook it up to a Spark cluster. You're done. Check, check. That was very simple. I use Databricks. I note on the bottom, not a rep. I don't sell it. It's just good. So if you don't believe me, I trust that you do. But we're Python people. We liked iPython notebooks before they became Jupyter notebooks. We like ad hoc stuff. It's fun. It's a good time. Databricks, Jupyter, Zeppelin, all notebooks, no-brainer. We can fast-forward pass this part. Scalable, for those that aren't familiar with Spark, this is kind of a freebie, too. Spark is a distributed in-memory computational engine. The syntax associated with it is expressive, compact, and kind of fun. It's written in Scala. I don't hold that against it. There's a nice Python wrapper. Very nice. And if you have more data, this is the scalability part. We'll just add more machines. It's distributed. What do we care? Same code runs no matter what the size. But for the main part, the other components that we're looking for, we're going to learn by doing. We all write code, so it's easier to see code. Background information for those that don't remember this now seemingly outdated terminology, ETL. Extract step one, get your data. Transform, make it into something you actually want. Load, save it somewhere nice so you can access it later. A little glimpse into what PySpark looks like. You can extract data two lines if I had a little more width on the screen. It would have been one line. Clean it, a few transformers, and then save. That's context-specific. No code there. And for those developers that deal with particularly needy PMs or business users, as a data scientist, a lot of business users and PMs in my life, you do this once and you do it well. They're like, oh, it's like cracked to them. They want more. So ETL jobs can accumulate quickly. You make a nice data warehouse table. You put a little chart that's fed by it. Graphs are great. Insights are great. We want more. Before you know it, you have stuff running all night. It's very inefficient. You'll notice that there are generally more questions to be answered from data than data sources themselves. So if you think of the ET and the L, there are a few Es, many Ts, hopefully not too many Ls, or else you have data spread all over the place. So if we're dealing with an in-memory computational engine, well, let's take advantage of that. Let's have jobs that are dependent upon each other and share that memory, work on the same cluster. So we can construct a little dependency graph. So if you have one job that loads a bunch of stuff, keeps it in the cluster, it saves data, makes it readily available, feeds it to all the little dependent jobs, and then once its first level children are done, delete the data, repeat, recursive in that way. Easy way to do this. TrTL, super compact little pipeline package, does exactly that. Maintain the job order. Cache the data that's gonna be used. So if you have a job that runs, it does some stuff. TrTL will check, so it does this have any children. If those children are gonna, maybe they want the data. If it does, well, cache the data because Spark has a notion of lazy evaluation, caching means, in this context, save what you've done so far and like force the evaluation when needed. And then pass it along. For those looking for kind of a web app, GUI, or job scheduler, like run every day, noon, cron stuff, that's not what this is. This is just about passing the data around. Will that be added? No, there's enough of that out there. So the actual learn by doing? This inherits, the inheritance from job that's in TrTL. There wasn't enough room on screen to put the import statement, you can trust me on that. So if we have, if we picture one loader as a job and then two children that want that data after it's done. In kind of the classical run of pipeline in its own concept, you might have one pipeline that says like load data, transform data, save it and you have a bunch of these going at once. But really it's the same E at the core. So load the data, save it, make it fast. That's only a couple lines. Notice PySpark, a lovely syntax again. If you want to load a huge JSON source, well then just read JSON. Really can't be any easier. If we want to write a dependent job, label it as such. This is dependent upon, get some data, the original extractor method, or extractor job. In its transform method, it's gonna, you've defined the parameter that it's gonna receive. And that's gonna be the data from the prior one. You're gonna do some stuff with it, who knows. And you load it, snuck in a little more PySpark there for another taste of how easy it is. If you have data partitioned by, because you want to partition data, you want to be efficient about it, save it as a type, in this case par K. Couldn't be any easier. If we have another job, so I said there's this little diamond structure here. So if you have a second child, that's also gonna receive the same data. So get some data, has two children. So tree TL will say like, it has more than one child, save the data, keep it in memory in the Spark cluster, pass it along. And then once those jobs are complete, the original E will un-persist. And then lastly we have this final job that takes the output, the transform data from the two second step children, merge them together. So each one of these, the text that it has a child, cache the data, pass it along. Last job does its thing. The middle step jobs, un-persist. Now you have this last one. Each one can extract its own data, receive data from a parent, it can load its own data and pass its transform stuff along. So we have this communication between jobs, just to keep data in memory. It seems like a lot of tedious bookkeeping, but if you're dealing with, like if you launch a cluster, you need to get the data from somewhere. And if it's a lot of data, which we're planning for 100X, you don't wanna overload your network costs or anything like that. Like it's just inefficient. If you're constantly dealing with IO, then you're missing the whole point of using Spark. The whole point is to keep it in memory. Load it once, share it around and get rid of all of it. And when you finally wanna run it, there's a job runner in Treetio. Give it some jobs, let it figure out. You've tagged the dependencies with the decorators. It'll kinda organize everything. In between jobs, it will cache the data as needed because the package doesn't do much, but it does that. And I'm willing to check off reproducibility and reusability there. But there was a lot of setup there and I had a lot of comments saying there's more stuff to be done. So it doesn't feel like you save all that much code, but if you're only loading from a few different places and it's not as if there are data idioms. Like you get data every hour or every day or something like that. Well, all these components, all these ET and L components are composable. You can have a generic job that says get data from some source that you're gonna dependency inject. And it's gonna follow this year, month, day, hour pattern in the file structure. So then you can mix that into whatever job you want. Ditto with loading. I know a lot of my data, it's we care about searches per day and appointments per day and things like that. So when I load messy data and I transform it, I'm gonna extract messy data and transform it and then I save it somewhere for ready access and analytics. It's usually partitioned by like a year, month, day construct. So it's consistent. We can mix that in too. So all you really ever have to write is the transform method. All right, a few guidelines. This first slide is completely unejectionable. Jobs should always be rerunnable, tested and rerunnable, get it. So there are always issues, there are always bugs.  It's inevitable. And sometimes things just crash. Who knows? But you need to be able to rerun your jobs. And you need, you know, if you had an error, you've had an error from, you know, five months ago during like one specific week, it was not an arbitrary timeframe that did happen to me just a couple weeks ago while I was putting this slide together actually. So it's there for that one week. I need to rerun the full tree for that timeframe, no problem. The rest are more PySpark specific considerations because the other stuff is just generic. If you've written any jail before, you know, rerunnable. Cool. So Spark has its preferred, embedded, optimized file type is called parquet. It's super easy and it's super fast.  If our goal is always easy, let's do something like that. Also, if you're using PySpark for ETL, you're probably doing analysis in and it has a nice machine learning library. It's great. So Spark reads parquet very quickly. It's a nice descriptive column store format. And then burying the lead a little bit. Always use data frames when you can. And Spark has two primary data abstractions. It's the RGD and the data frame. The RGD came first and it had no schema information associated with it, but it was flexible, made sense. And then they put a higher level abstraction that had a little schema information with a huge performance boost. You always want the performance boost. Give a little schema. It's not too much to ask. Partition your data. Again, common sense. Something that databases have been doing since there's been databases. Just because we're moving to data lakes and event frameworks and things like that, just because we're schema lists, whatever, doesn't mean we can't partition our data. I mentioned that a lot of my stuff is partitioned by day. So data frame, write partitioned by write as parquet. I forgot the write in there, so that's actually a bug. But again, easy. The whole point of the TreeTL organization, the whole point of sharing with memory, caching intermediate results in Spark is very important.  It'll go through that big chain, but then if you call another action on it later, it's gonna go through the big chain again. That doesn't make any sense. If we have a break point where we're gonna use a data frame multiple times, cache it, save it. Memory efficiency is why we're doing this. Between jobs, TreeTL does this, within jobs, go nuts, it's up to you. Flip side, uncache isn't a word, but do that. Again, it's easy. Memory is what feeds Spark, it's what makes it work. So if you're not using something anymore, delete it. Make room for lots more data. Again, TreeTL will do this, between jobs, within a job, go nuts. Be efficient, and that's it. And if you work at ZocDoc, you'll find out why we end our slides with cows. 10 minutes for questions, separate, this is for batch jobs. So if you're training a lot of my inputs or either for kind of like offline data mining or offline model building, stuff like that, so the cost of waiting till tomorrow and having a run overnight, zero for me. Streaming is kind of its own at will. In that case, you don't have to worry so much about those dependencies, because you already deployed something in the same cluster, it's through the same pipeline. So this is more like if you, so like the full production scale organizes everything, job scheduler or Luigi, it's like a bunch of different work streams, they don't need to talk to each other or anything like that. This is like within one of those batch jobs. You could be more, like Luigi has nice support for running a Spark job as one of its steps. Well, within that Spark job, be smart. Yeah, I believe Jupyter does have integration with, you can hook it up to a cluster now, something like Databricks has the full manager of the cluster built into it. I don't know about like cores within a given machine, but I don't know if that's like the primer, like if you're using Spark, I don't know if that's the primary goal for optimization. Right, the point is like, you have something in memory and you wanna spread it out horizontally. It's like you're not trying to like squeeze every bit out of the individual machine. Yeah. A 3DL is as small and simple as possible. I have it for a very limited number of use cases. It is not a platform framework or anything. Well, it's all offline stuff. So there's no risk to it, yeah. Yeah. How did, how did 3DL manage memory versus PySpark manage memory? Like what, how did those work together? Oh, so it's not that it's like, it's not managing memory bytes itself. It's making sure that in between jobs, like if you have a job run in isolation, like it has no need to save data for later, the job is done. So it's just like it's leveraging PySpark's caching system. It's just doing that when it's needed for other jobs. So like PySpark, if you were to replicate that functionality just in PySpark natively, you would have essentially one big job. So this is so you can write individual little component jobs, plug them onto the end of the list and then 3DL will say like, oh, it has a new dependency here. Keep data around for this guy also. So it's about decomposing. So I do sound like a Databricks rep at this point, but they have a free community edition. I would suggest using that because you don't have to pay for the resources of the machines you hook up. You got the notebook. There's no like DevOps consideration. That's free. Yeah, because it doesn't like, it has a cache method that's essentially called how you inherit and override that functionality is irrelevant. It's more about that. It's recognizing the fact that this is a time in which we need to keep data on hand and pass it along to someone else. So you can like the way that I use it is my override method is always the same. I just say like transform data basically dot cache or anything associated with it. So yeah, you could. I haven't though. Pardon? Yeah, because it's only passing data to the job wrapper essentially. It's like there is a job class, right? And then it has these components, E, T, and L and whatever data is being passed along to the next job, it's just an input variable to the transform method. If under the hood, you're then saying do some other stuff and drop it in Cassandra. That doesn't matter. Because it's really like you're implementing that transaction, five minutes. Not yet, but I will. GitHub sounds like a good place for it. Also, I believe that PyGotham puts all the videos and notes up. Am I right about this? Yeah. So in your work, do you use Spark specific functionality? Do you really need to use Spark in treat L? No. I'm saying for the purposes of our various goals, I find that to be the easiest like no brainer way to achieve scalability and like batch jobs and stuff like that. There are a million ways you can do it. Just my personal preference. I happen to like Spark a lot. Basically any system where you could say, oh, I have more data, don't change a thing, just add another machine, thumbs up. It could be inside a Luigi job.  One of them, well like a number of them are Spark jobs. If you find that any of them load or share data, well then maybe just put them together, let them, you can still write them as separate, nicely segregated little objects. Treat L, just kind of put them all together and say like this is one job, keep it in memory. Point is like you just, anything that avoids duplicate, extracting and loading and whatnot, I don't care if you use treat L, just in general don't do it. I guess that's about it. Thank you.


The idea is like, I never know where is the limit between using the language of people who understand, who read what I'm doing or listen to what I'm doing versus use the knowledge I have to educate people. So to teach them new kind of, like for example, the flow state, many people in the art business, they don't know what it is. It's really using sports psychology. So I would like to teach them not to use another word like going to zone or something else. So I don't know if it's useful for marketing or how to manage that. Really good question. Essentially, how much jargon should we use in our content? And of course, we need to divide between free content and paid content. When in your paid content, people who are already buying something from you or hiring you, you can lean more heavily into the industry specific knowledge and concepts because that's what they paid for. They're paying for to go more advanced. But in the free content, you should always gear yourself towards beginners in a free content. In any industry, there are always many more beginners than there are intermediates and more intermediates than there are advanced people. I mean, I can't give you a percentage, but I'm going to say probably, and here's the thing, like even so like 80% of your content should be beginner, free content, free content, social media stuff should be beginner stuff. You should not use any jargon. Or if you use jargon, you should define it each time, each time. Okay. And your definition can be really short flow state by which I mean blah, blah, blah, you can keep going. Especially if you keep using a particular industry specific word and over time, over time, over time, your audience will start getting used to it. And essentially, your whole audience starts becoming more intermediate from beginner. But even though your whole audience becomes more intermediate, you're still going to get the inflow of beginners always, always, always. And even the intermediate and advanced people still enjoy reading beginner material. If it's free, free material, always cater to beginners. Whenever I would say 80% of the time cater to beginners, and 20% of the time cater to intermediates. And then you might sprinkle in a little bit of advanced concepts every now and then just to test whether they get it. Does that make sense? Yes, perfect. Thank you. Yes. What I'm doing now is like when I write articles that are a bit longer, I take the time to explain some of the content, some of these words. Otherwise, if it's really graphical and immediate use easy language, simple language. Right, exactly. Yes, exactly. Articles, you have more time to explain. And people appreciate it. Like I said, I have read a whole book on flow. I've read a book on flow as applied to business or whatever anyway. But still today, if you wrote something that explained flow, defined flow in your terms, I would enjoy reading that. In fact, it's almost like the more advanced someone is, the more they even enjoy or geek out on another practitioner defining beginner terms. It's kind of like I always say, in like a martial arts class, let's say, you know, you're learning Kung Fu or something like that, you will find that even in the white belt classes, the advanced people are still learning, they're still practicing along the white belt people how to punch. That's the most beginner thing you can do in a martial arts class, how to do this. But the advanced people are learning it with more nuance. They understand the history of the punch, they understand how these muscles all work together, and they understand how the, but beginners are just trying not to hurt themselves and just trying to understand what a punch is. Whereas, you know, so it always is welcome to do beginner content. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.


know who set that time I think it was Betsy joining us for the time being and for forever for however long she can put up with this I think she can put up yeah that's right yeah I don't I don't know that Sarah Sarah said she didn't know if she had to work this morning or not so Sarah pops in we'll see her but I don't think she's going to uh because she has to work but so yay Betsy go glad to be here what is it the song from cabaret good evening of welcome and welcome yeah so Betsy's here and Betsy's gonna be doing our um what you call it photo of the week photos yeah uh let me go back so I can see what the comments are going yes somebody made a mistake on the time yeah I don't know who did that so yeah Judy don't leave we're good we're good we're here you're all here pull up a chair Chris is like running around the room trying to get everybody to stay in their seats they're gonna be here in a minute don't leave yeah we're here uh so the very first person Judy was the first person in the room today so good on you Judy then John tiner and uh then John Vaskey uh turns out to 3 a.m for some reason like I said Greg made a big big mistake on that I'll blame it on my my laptop because I had to give away my good laptop the one I've been doing all the programming on for hactober fest but I it um it needed repair but I couldn't send it in until hactober fest was done and wikichu was done wikichu day was done so then this week I sent it in so now I'm using a 10 year old machine which is very slow so you could believe it on the machine but Susan Anderson yeah I'm I'm here and it's it was the machine Greg had to take the the machine messed it up and Greg had to take it in and get it fixed there we go there we go that's the story we'll go with that you know this week has been a great week for veterans yeah Susan Anderson we're on we're definitely here we're here I'm sorry about that folks uh sometimes you know these things question of the week who are the veterans in your family man oh day did we have some answers on this so 87 there were so many answers there were 87 there's like seven five seven pages worth of um of answers and this is vets as not veterinarians we're talking veterans because this was the week for um November the 11th which was armistice day over across the way uh so we had lots of great answers uh from lots of people and what I have tried to do is um what number am I on I'm on the wrong number here let me go back to page one nope anybody gets sick just let me know there we go so uh Roy Boyer voted up his own answer as the best answer and you know kudos to you Roy let's do this let's go Wilbur Hayes Henry Boyer or is it Boye it would be Boye if you were from Canada Dan Pack Warren Boyer Roy Boyer oh Roy oh Vietnam United States Marine Corps Marine Corps birthday was this weekend too pierce Hayes uh there are other uh there are just father uncles and first cousins so that's pretty cool and I'm not going to change that Roy you go for it you are a vet let's let you vote yourself up there I like the gumption um um and some people were uh saying that they are creating some cool uh space pages so Jennifer Turner here are a few of the veterans on my branches that I have remembered to tag into my service veterans category uh this is only a fraction and does not include my grandfather or reservist and my grandfather who is part of the un operations in Egypt following world war too so we have a couple of really interesting let's see if I've got them in the right order or not go away um obviously not so that category I could have sworn I had that category up but I don't uh so let's just pull it up so she's created a category uh a personal category just for just for her family's profiles that are veterans and she doesn't have them all in there obviously because if you worked for the un and you did a un operation that person is absolutely a veteran and you should add them all to it but it's interesting how she uses that as her own personal way of keeping track of her people so these uh veterans are going to have uh down at the bottom they're going to have a category for Turner service veterans and I guess Turner 601 one was her uh just one of her people but I don't see a Turner on here but again Turner is for her her profile name yeah yeah that makes sense so she just created a profile veterans based on her sir or her wiki tree profile so that works um so a lot of people did that and then people were talking about how it was a great idea John Vaskey who's here and other people are picking it up and somebody has something similar to that where they have their wiki tree id and then military cousins and they even have a cool personal category thing in here that somebody put on there so this is an older category look at how many names are on this one wow so anyone can create their own personal category then absolutely yeah like um I do that with DNA work or if you have like I have uh all of my mitochondrial DNA matches when I go and I find the earliest known ancestor on family tree DNA or my dy dna.org I create a profile for the earliest known ancestor and walk back that person not to a living person but back far enough to where I know who the tester is and uh so I create a category based on that and for me it's like h1b1-t I see I can't remember how to say my name but it's my happy name and then it says group one and so if somebody else had uh wanted to create their own personal category for that they would say group two or group three so yeah you can do that that's interesting um so yeah somebody did that and then we have somebody who went to a lot of work to create this list and they put all of the links in here and put in a little bit of information on each one of their veteran ancestors cool way to do things uh and John Vasky's up there asking talking to people and thanking them we thank you John Vasky for that uh Elmo J York that's Iwo Jima Iwo Jima yeah yeah my grandfather um I'll show you my Facebook posts let's go over here this is the post that I put up for my grandfather um he was a transport commander during World War II so he did 17 round trips of carrying people back and forth and equipment and supplies and reading his service um his service record burned up but I have his copy of his package and he he shows that he was really important and integral and carrying people from point A to point B and he cared for the men as if they were guests in his home with morale boosting activities and support for long stressful voyages then he delivered them to the doorstep of violence and death with great care and bravery that's my grandfather wow what a service yeah and so I was looking I'm looking through here and I'm seeing all these people who served in the same areas like Iwo Jima he was he he has bronze stars for a lot of these battles and I mean he may have carried some of these people yeah and I'm like who was on his ship yeah yeah yeah the really fun thing about that is um let me see if I can get this up the I created he had two ships that he commanded um and one of the guys sees the very first thing that pops up amazing yeah so here's the first ship he commanded and the grandson of the captain of the ship actually contacted me and gave me information um the ship though and there's my here is the crew of the ship not the people and there's my granddaddy right there and there's my granddaddy right there and these are the the executive officers of the ship this is from Life Magazine now this guy piloted the ship onto a pinnacle in the Aleutians and ripped a hole in the ship they had to beach the ship this was in Life Magazine they had to beach the ship and fill the hole with concrete and mattresses to get it they were being strived by um Japanese planes while they were trying to get it repaired they got it repaired in Hawaii but their their patchwork repair worked to get the ship back to Hawaii so isn't that funny and there's another article about the ship's captain what they did was they took over these ships and said you're gonna your ship you're a mares captain but now you're gonna be captaining this ship for the US government because they they you know took those ships in so poor guy he had to go to work when he wasn't even planning on it anyway so that's my my my guy do you think there are our um ship manifest records anywhere you know I don't I don't know because I know all of the records on my grandfather burned my my father's records have burned I can't find any of their information on cold three like burned where in St. Louis where the archives burned for the army so yeah he was also a merchant marine he was a major at this time he went out of the service of the lieutenant colonel but he was a major at this time uh and the other ship was the US ATC Barb and another person who sent me they had this um certificate that they had that they would give to you when you cross the meridian where you went from one day to the next day and so they got that there was all sorts of reading his service stuff and the letters that he got from people was all about him making people feel comfortable and giving them things to do activities above and beyond training and whatever on the ship and I said to my brother once yeah he was just a glorified purser but that's really not the truth um yeah so we have some more really cool um wiki tree profiles to look at like Russell Herman Macklin uh was Ontario died in Ontario uh really good profile for him Lisa Gervais are you here there's Lisa here yeah Lisa Lisa the only the only thing that that bothers my eyeballs on your profile is that you have this sticker up here and then his military service sticker is down here I went in and I was going to change it and move it up to the top of the profile but I didn't I kept my grubby hands off of it but what a good profile what a great picture oh Lisa Gervais he was a mess sergeant I know a mess sergeant uh here that was with the air force and he's an interesting fellow to be around let's see William Carlisle Deckel this guy uh West Palm Beach Florida so I mean West Palm Beach hmm he lives down the street from Mar-a-Lago right oh really yeah but guess who this guess who this belongs to I was really impressed when I saw this click to navigate my chromosome map and DNA painter that's gotta be Peter Roberts excellent that he's got lots of great pictures of this guy and he's got all of his DNA stuff written up he doesn't have any uh stickers on here for him being in the military though um so fun anyway that's Peter Roberts if you don't know Peter Roberts he is he is responsible for a lot of the stuff that you see on wiki tree uh let's see I have Pam Patty Richie I have family members who served an aunt um one always comes to my my my uncle Lloyd Hans Roda Roda Roda enlisted at 17 about one year before I was born and was killed in Vietnam the year I graduated from high school only months before he had planned to retire I hate those stories I knew him primarily from his furlough visits because he served his whole life in the army and those visits were the only time I really saw him we had family reunions each time he was home on leave one day I went through my mother's scrapbook and read all of her letters to him from him to get to know him better and I decided to do a memorial page on him uh on my google family genealogy website uh but I've since transferred most of that to wiki tree so here we go gonna take a look at this he looks very very happy um nice uh staff sergeant worked his way up Ho Chi Minh Saigon uh but a really good biography great pictures of the family and I mean you can pick him out pretty quickly um nice you know great pictures there he is again he's always got that smile going on yeah yeah check out the bike when he was a kid I'm trying to figure out which one he is in this picture this guy and then other pictures here he must be the little guy here what a great great profile and a great um memorial to him 16 with his go ahead Betsy I was going to say having those letters is such a treasure like if you read like a sequence of correspondence over time you really can get to know someone you can absolutely and here um he you know he gets his badge I don't know one of you guys has your volume on for from the youtube channel just might want to check that um it they've got this series of madras soldier wounded during vietnam but battle in 1966 and then down here condition is serious and then down here he's passed and then she even has the letter wow oh wow from his commanding officer and then a commemorative stuff and then full military honors at the funeral how cool is that and that's not a free space page that's his like profile profile yeah that's amazing that's a lot of stuff on a profile page but I don't think it's too much no some people can have way too much and and that's when that stuff should roll off to a free space page but that's really good so I'm up to 1018 um a lot of a lot of stuff on here for showing um different people lots of lists love this one it's the last one we're gonna look at uh this is the only known photograph of my grandfather great great grandfather george alexander neal now pipp you and I probably connect through my stepmother's family because she was a neal and lived over you know gaston mecklenburg and all that so he lied about his age to enlist in the confederate army and was assigned to the famed bethel regiment he was only 15 at that age he was wounded on the first day of battle of geese gettysburg and lost an arm just below the left elbow george was captured four days later returning to his home in mecklenburg county north carolina he married and had three children before he died at the age of 29 in 1877 lucky man to have only lost an arm and be sent home after your first thing i mean sorry hard hard knocks to be that lucky for him but um i love that this this last comment i have a drop leaf table made by him oh wow he's a one armed woodman he's working in the wood with one arm that is just the greatest story pep that's amazing yes intense eyes i wonder what happened to him at 29 why he did well let's see uh we could try and find him let's go to pips uh let's go down here oh we can't because pips got everything private so can't do that so that was it we can we can uh did he have the profile listed anywhere no yeah there he is here we go yeah uh park rick mecklenburg boy that's a great profile too yeah well done i don't january park rick doesn't say why he died well lots of illnesses that could have gotten you in 1877 yeah yeah typhus is a big one see live how he's got all of his stuff up there at the top of the biography page and just saying just saying just saying all right so that is the question of the week is do you have any uh veterans in your family great great great excellent and i'm gonna move it on too we're moving on to the well the profiles of the week which also lead um follow the same theme which um which military hero is most closely connected to your family was the question and where are we here so um so the first the first one is is adi murphy of course of course so you i'm betting the both of you knew who adi murphy was that name's familiar to you yes not sorry well it totally was not familiar to me at all and yet um he is known as the most decorated um war hero so um from which war here we're talking we're talking the second world war um so you think that someone that famous someone who's like the most of anything is something you would think that would be um a category you'd know about but i didn't so um adi leon little texas murphy was born on the 20th of june 2025 in kingston in currently in texas um and passed away at the age of 45 on 20th of may in 1971 but uh he was the son of poor texas sharecroppers um but he became a national hero during world war two as the most decorated combat soldier of the war uh among his 33 awards was the congressional medal of honor the highest award for bravery that a soldier can receive in addition he also was decorated for bravery by the governments of france and of belgium and was credited with killing over 240 german soldiers and wounding and capturing many more um interestingly he tried to enlist in the marines and then the paratroopers but he was rejected because of his size he was only five five and 110 pounds and allegedly because he was too young but apparently his sister helped him to falsify his age on the on um on some records and then he was enlisted um just after his 18th birthday or supposedly after his 18th birthday um in fact actually if you look at his profile it says he was actually born the 20th of june 1925 but on his gravestone the government still or the uh military still had 1924 down which was what he enlisted as so so greg you're 22 from oddy murphy and betty co is 21 from oddy murphy and you're that's your closest that's the white no lu lu wallis is your closest at 19 greg your closest is i think it's going to be oddy murphy and alvin york it's interesting your your closest oh wait wait wait wait what about the ontario guy boost off the second adolf vasa your closest to him wow who's the ontario guy sir artha curry we'll get to him in a bit uh lu wallis too now i haven't even looked at mine i'll look at mine while you keep going so he had a obviously a very very decorated military career um and when he came back after after the war uh he did do some he did do some acting um the story caught the interest of superstar james cagney who invited him to hollywood and he was in a number of different movies i guess the one the red badge of courage um which is considered a minor classic but there was some politics behind it apparently at the time so it didn't do very well at the box office at the time um and uh anyway see he made 244 films altogether until they changed the structure of how films were being made and then he was out of a job um but he recognized he himself apparently suffered from ptsd and understood the importance of uh fighting that and so he helped the campaign vigorously for the government to spend more time and money taking care of vietnam war vets when it came time for that that's fantastic so that was good yeah um but sadly he passed away he was aboard a private plane on his way to a business meeting that ran at the fog near ronop virginia and crashed in the side of the mountain and that's where he that's how he died he was buried with full military honors in arlington national cemetery according to cemetery records the grave his grave site is visited by more people that the only person the only grave that's visited more often than his was president john f kennedy's wow yeah so pretty impressive but look at um one of the that's etching that etching of the family tree is breaking yeah very cool um one of the comments in the in the profile which is very well written um is about that he always had a boyish face even though which I guess was one of the reasons why he was always being rejected initially when he was trying to apply to a trying to unlist but even later on so so uh moving on charles grows right win anderson victoria cross military cross born in south africa and passed away in red hill australian capital territory in australia so he was a south african born kenyan um and obviously because he became australian later on and a soldier and a politician there he was awarded the military cross for gallantry during the first world war in mozambique and he became the only australian battalion commander in the second world war to be honored with the award of the victoria cross there's gallantry in malaya he was a prisoner of war in singapore and in tailand on the infamous berma tai railway so he actually served in both world wars um was born in 1897 um in south africa um and then they the family moved to kenya kenya um i'm not sure which the what is the proper pronunciation is it kenya or kenya these days but um uh then he was sent to england for school and uh as it was said he fought in mozambique in the first world war and then he married an australian moved to australia in 1931 and then fought for australia in the second world war in malaya in the south uh south asia area and there was capitalism but he was in charge of a number of men when he was in captivity and did a lot of things apparently to to reduce the privations of his men i guess to make conditions a little bit better um and he was beaten for that often but and like legendary has helped to help sustain prisoner morale and then he joined he did take part in politics later on there's all of his awards and i like that something they ended this profile of thank you for your service i like how they did the the background with his metals yeah that's neat eh yeah bring me um thomas william brown 1925 to 1945 so he died way too young uh uh born and died in north shield's north um blend lind uh 16 year old military hero tommy brown um so his famous because uh when he enlisted he was uh uh he joined the navy army and air force institutes uh and again another one who enlisted too early like falsified his age to get on on board or to get to to get into service um but he was part of um he was he was one of three men to board a sinking submarine a german submarine and was able to retrieve documents and he was the only one of the three that actually survived but he brought the documents back and that helped uh fleshly park to crack the enigma code do you think yeah and that was huge do you think that that these kids who are so gung-ho who want to get in early do you think that they exceeded or excelled at the at being soldiers because they felt like they had something to prove i i think that's probably a good good theory i would say yeah that they really wanted to do that it's not like they're a force to do it or they were called up and you know right you know i guess it's my turn to serve sort of thing no it's like i'm i want to go in safe world yeah also just sort of the the sense of invulnerability of youth oh yeah oh yeah yeah you see that every day don't you bet see hi i love it it is my life and along with that a one says such an innocent face i know audi murphy and yeah i'm not sure alvin york had an innocent face no maybe not as much um unfortunately he died in 1945 from injuries sustained while rescuing his sister marine so it wasn't even through it wasn't because of the war he was on he was at home on leave um and there was a house fire and he was rescuing his sister from the house fire and that he died from injuries from that so isn't that sad great space page project yes so arthur willian curry from canva actually born the 5th of december 1875 in adelaide middle six county on ontario so that's in southwestern ontario um in the london area london ontario area um died at the 30th of november 1933 at the age of 57 he was considered one of the ablest generals of world war one and led the canadian corps to several important victories including hill 70 passion dale and amion and vimmy ridge what an odd odd turn of phrase ablest ablest able to able keenest uh yeah it seems yeah you're right ablest is an interesting word um he grew up on a farm uh in middle six county and then he joined the the canadian garrison in 1894 uh start of world war one just given command of a battalion and then he advanced steadily through that winning distinction at various battles and then became a commander of the four divisions so in england he was conducted into the knight's grand cross of the order of st michael and this and st george and knight's commander of the order of the bath by king george 1920 accepted the position of principal and vice chancellor university retain that post until he died in 1933 moving on the choice of the profiles this week was really well done because it's really spread out across many nations um so that was very very cool a lot so this one here ferdinand fosche um born on the 2nd of october 1851 in table urnay france um and passed away on the 20th of march 1929 in paris in the 7th arrondissement i think is what that's referring to france uh he was a oh here we have a uh a profile totally in french um so i could read it gordon france at the militaire français général de division chelle commandant chelle de force um but uh let me just translate some of that for you he was a french general um and then later the marshal uh commandant commander in chief base of the forces of the in the grand war so world war one um he also uh founded the academy the french academy in 1918 um so he's a very um very impressive uh war leader from france in the first world war um and in fact there were there streets in in uh in paris and other cities in france named marshal foch marshal means marshal french and that was his title marshal foch so um very impressive moving on uh we have a dutch entry here cibrin eric sold out van oranjo hazelhoff wilfzema now i'm wondering if he's related to david haselhoff no no mag says no i have no idea there you go how common is haselhoff is it like smith or is it like a more unique name uh anyways he was born in 1917 actually in sor sorbaia indonesia um and he was a member of the patrician genus haselhoff wilfzema so now what do you think that means the patrician genus like are we talking like different different set of animals like i've never heard of a family grouping called a a genus people are yeah i mean that makes me think of biology class exactly exactly it looks like there aren't any great matches for your your search let me get rid of haselhoff and see if that helps okay but um um i'm wondering if it's here we go here we go what wikipedia says certain gents g-e-n-t-e-n-e-s were classified as patrician others as plebeian some had both patrician and plebeian branches so it's a class or a caste system um a caste system good isn't that interesting and is that particular to dutch families or i would i would assume but i you know what happens when you assume and chris fariella is doing some digging for david how to help her no parents okay um so in indonesia he grew up in java which was part of the former dutch uh east indies his father was successful in rubber and coffee pre branch um coffee branch and then they moved to from from there to the netherlands um he took some time to travel but when world war two broke out in the netherlands they thought netherlands would stay neutral but after the invasion by germany not so much and he continued he worked as part of the dutch underground um finished off his his law degree and signed uh signed the wall here for the sweat room but anyways his his contribution during the war was uh as part of the dutch underground there we go his story became a movie named sold out van oran soldier of orange hmm lewitt oliver is next and uh yeah yeah yeah navajo codetalker right yes so uh he was speaking of the enigma machine exactly yes so he was one of the 29 original navajo codetalkers and served alongside his brother who was obviously one of the other ones um served in the military from 42 to 45 so they were instrumental in in getting messages back and forth what's that people couldn't understand what they were saying and nobody knew what this code was yeah nobody could break the code it was it i think it's one of the best things yeah the code was they were speaking navajo yeah the problem was there's so few navajo speakers in the world no one could break it which wasn't a problem if you were a codetalker in you so um it's interesting here the very first paragraph sort of talks about his lineage um and i but i'm which is interesting because it mentions four different clans so he was born into the and i'm not i'm probably going to butcher the differentiation because i'm just guessing john tiner can you give us or what who was it that that is the person who always did our checking on our or yeah who was that oh was it john or was it steven tomas i don't know yeah uh anyways he was born into the batani which is the folded arms clan born for the traditiony the red house clan his chai was nakidene the mexican people clan and his nali was codetini the bitter water clan cool hmm so what i'd be really curious of and i'm wondering if anyone in the chat knows what does that actually mean he was when he if he was into a certain clan born for another clan and what is chai and nali i wonder if he was given those um those memberships as he progressed through life's you know things once he reached a certain age they had a ceremony to induct him into some other part of the family that would be so cool to find out yeah great what's the the source type source citation number two that's linked to that what what is that loyde over a uh over your um or all of her it's probably oh it's obituary it's obituary which if we open it up there it goes we died of pancreatitis and that's actually the type it was just taken directly from that born into born for his chai was and his nali was doesn't say what that means i'm i have a friend who is kind of an expert in all things native american and genealogy i'm gonna send them a note real quick let's see oh we have some comments in the uh chat that that tries to if born in four or into is his parents family well there you go is that a guess or is that which is that true because i was wondering my theory was that the chai and the navi were like the maternal side and the paternal side that's what i thought at first too but i have no idea well and she may be identifying that but just didn't specifically say that lana she says she's learned a lot from tony illerman okay interesting next we have harriet ross tubman born her she was born her name when she was first born was a given name was a era mint or she would go by minty she was born into slavery in 1822 um on a maryland plantation um in the south of madison in the parson's creek district of dorchester county she was the fifth of nine children her parents who married about 1808 were enslaved on neighboring maryland plantations in 1849 she escaped enslavement and worked in philadelphia she saved her money and repeated the return to maryland to rescue others the actual number of trips and people she led to freedom is unknown that's believed that she made about 13 trips over an 11-year period leading about 70 to 80 people to safety into the free northern us states as well as canada she also led a revolt uh off the coast of charleston and rescued like 300 people at in one go wow yeah so she is she was somebody that they had like that um they were looking for her yeah yeah she led the raid on uh is this the one you mean here the colby the river ferry she rescued more than or is that a different one yeah yeah yeah 750 i would lay off on my number oh and lanette says regarding the last fella um is clan members can't marry each other oh so that that would make sense that they would identify the clan that they were a part of so that they wouldn't have endogamy wow that's smart thanks for hobbling yeah that's what lanette lanette lanette that's lanette jester not more haven't no well she thinks she is right now but it's really lanette oh okay um anyways harry tom and davis uh very important conductor on the famous underground railroad that's cool yeah gustav adult veys vasa um okay we got two two left uh he was the king of sverga king of sweden born in 1594 so this is the oldest profile we have this week um preceded by carl the ninth and succeeded by christine is that his daughter yes his daughter um king of sweden from 1611 to 1632 and is credited as the founder of sweden as a great power that sweden the military supremacy during the 30 years war helping to determine the political as well as the religious balance of the power in europe he was first born he was given uh he was the seventh child so that's wow he was the seventh child of carl the ninth so you'd wonder you know the seventh person pretty far out there you wouldn't expect the the person's seventh in line to eventually become a king in some some uh cultures though the seventh child of the seventh the seventh son of the seventh son is like a lucky thing too that's true so you might have raised but there you go king of sweden and then the last one because this is oh we didn't do it all so we have two more lewis walis major general lewis walis uh born 1827 and dearborn indiana and passed away 1905 in proffersville montgomery and indiana uh he was the 10th governor of new mexico um but also a hero a hero from the us civil war and the author of ben her wow a one are you related to him because i know that you are related to some pretty high muckety mucks in new mexico so he was a general during his military service he's a general during the civil war and distinguishes a leader and a fighter was credited with saving cincinnati from the confederate army uh following his defeat at the bottle battle of monocracy in mariland he slowed the confederate advance towards washington dc giving the city time to ready its defenses so even though he technically lost that battle he slowed them down enough that it did good in the end so good stuff general lewis walis and the last one is elvin cullum cork york uh born in 1887 paul maul in tennessee passed away the age of 76 and 64 uh also in tennessee he ended the first world war as one of america's most famous soldiers with fame and popular recognition assured following our remarkable act of courage and coolness in october 1918 so let's see if i can find where that is um once in uh here it is once in france the semi-literate york earned lifetime fame for his part in an attack against a german machine gun positions on the eighth of october uh he was an acting corporal he led 17 men in action against the german stronghold um initially successful without coming under fire the small expedition took a number of prisoners before the germans launched a heavy counter attack 11 of york's men guarding the captured prisoners and the other six of them killed york resolved to proceed alone and tackle the german gunners ranged against them having shot some 17 gunners via sniping he was charged by seven germans soldiers who realized he was on his own but he killed them all with his pistol so jimmy stewart does a good job of portraying him yeah so it became a hero overnight after that's incredible there and do there he is and he does not have a baby face he does not have a baby face no no i don't know how number you'd want to be but i would not want to brush him in any quarter so there we go that's the uh and so betsey welcome to greg talks too long on profiles it's a used to it i'm sure did everybody see erin's comment just to hop in back to loyte oliver for a second yeah yeah what was that uh oh gary cooper oh my gosh i'm so so wrong okay photos of the week i share my screen um theme was um musical which may be happy because i'm a musician um and we have just about just about 12 of them um first up can everybody see my screen we get yeah i got you yes we can yes we can good um first up from mags you want to zoom that in yeah okay i will okay how's that that's great there we go and that on the back row left side is mags's grandfather you want to tell us about him a little mags well it's the same guy that we just heard about my favorite veteran who did the 17 trips around the pacific he's the second one from the left on the back row holding a cornet nice that i played all through middle school high school and university bands so wow that's clea my uh grandfather how special and you still have the cornet i no i don't oh okay we don't want to talk about that okay um he this is from wall holla high school in wall holla south carolina up in the mountains apalachia look at all of those good fiddlers out front i'm surprised somebody doesn't have a banjo no no no no wait what about this young lady here she sure does 1927 folks who love it all right right and this is a lexus nelson's aunt uh who is standing in front of her uh childhood piano with her husband she was a piano teacher uh this was one of the first ones posted the floutest from 1939 a colorized photo from yeah i can't remember who posted it but they noted that it had been colorized at that time um from kingston in canada oh right um love this one this is uh from a production of mid summer night's dream in the fifties uh and the poster was related to this little cutie in the middle of the right hand side uh i posted this this is me and my band oh nice excellent yes this the small but mighty little band we have a fiddler quite a few fiddlers this week a production of the music man 78 drums okay good bass yeah this one i had to admit this one uh so cute yeah yeah oh that is excellent this one i want to pinch those cheeks so um and then i think we had a few ones that were different we'll just hop hop over to uh this one is the size okay see see what we if we missed any um oh yes there's one one of roi clark oh wow yeah who was somehow friends with uh john's grandmother i think john is john is here yeah very very cool nice same one am i right mid summer night stream yes i was right about that um up we have a oh marching band life and drum five yep and that might be it that's it okay all right cool stuff wow let me show you mine okay there you go this is an album that my high school band recorded when i was in high school so that's me playing in the where we're there playing berry sacks that's baritone sacks for those who are baritone saxophone yes right when i had a bonding moment about that yes they did because they both played berry sacks yeah i'm also there playing clarinet in the bottom point of that picture right nice anyways that was a high school band so now you all know that the three of us are music geeks that's right true so one week we'll come in singing but i wanted to before we leave i did want to just share for those who weren't able to be part of the wiki tree um presentation i did on the latest game that i've added to wiki tree and you get to it from any page you go to the the wiki tree id menu down to dynamic tree and click on that and it's called fando ku um and if you if it pops up with another the dynamic tree remembers where you were last so obviously i was last on the fando game but if you were on somewhere else you just click on the list and you choose it from the list of of views and these were all things that were done during hectober fest and i've gone over some of these in various various places but we're going to look at the fando game and i'm going to actually change it to my profile but i have a better chance of actually winning but i encourage you all to go to your own profiles and choose fando so you can play along or whatever but um oh wow this is really large since i've enlarged it so much but what a great game to get your kids involved yeah and you know i've had lots of positive responses in the g2g post and about just that about um someone said they played it with their granddaughter already and one made a comment about you know setting this up at christmas time when the family gets together reunions it's got a time element so if you know if you like the little pressure if you're competitive oh good you added that um so basically um what it is it's a combination of a fan chart and sudoku basically you have to fill in your um your the ancestors where they go in the fan chart so it really has nothing to do with sudoku i'm just saying that well it does if you go to sudoku mode so initially if you just use if you just choose the exact options that are there it picks um it sorts all the ancestors in regular fan chart methods so um this uh right here called well actually i know who belongs right there so and then you just you pick you pick an ancestor and you put them in where it belongs and you can see uh whatever you can see at the top here so there's the time is advancing it's 30 seconds now since i started the game and i placed four out of the 14 ancestors i've missed none of them but if i try to put dona right here that's wrong um and it says miss now i've turned off the sound oh yeah i love the sound uh or i have it may not come through your speakers very well though let's go in please so if i turn on the sound then you hear oh you don't hear maybe the sound's not coming through yeah no it probably won't especially since you're on your laptop right yes that piece of crap yeah anyways there's a ding that plays and when you do something really good you get cheered that's right when you finish the whole thing you get the cheer yes so well i really like the the yay and correct the mundo oh oh here are the messages yes nice touch i tried to i had i think i came up with 18 different variations of positive affirmations um but let's uh here now let me change back to now if you go into fandoku mode so this is where it gets a little more tricky uh mags um instead of having your oh well let me just show in traditional mode if i show the gender colors what that means is so the the men go in the light blue squares and the women go in the light pink squares and on a traditional fan chart it's always the ancestors of any person when you move up and outwards it's always male female so male female male female and it's always in that order so you always know where everyone fits right um but when we switch to fandoku style then that ordering is more is randomized so in this one so the first two are still male female but this last one is female male and depending on it's it's it's all random so sometimes it'll be it'll be just one that'll be different and dependent if you have multiple if you have multiple generations um one of the things i added was the ability to have i just i updated it just yesterday actually and i've added two uh a couple new features one is the ability to go up as far as seven generations which is a little crazy i'm gonna go back up the full screen for that right um because it means a lot of dragging around probably or using have a really large monitor um but if you're at a family reunion and you had this projected against a wall then this would be kind of cool that absolutely yeah and if you had a whiteboard in a classroom betsy yes yep us you know that would be amazing you guys are geeks ha ha ha ha guilty as charged yes guilty as charged uh let me go back down to um let's let's go back to four um the other thing i added uh was the ability to show lifespan because some people were saying that it was it was a little more it was too difficult and they need a little bit hint and they also um people who had ancestors that had the exact same names they were you know there was it was too difficult to figure out where they went now i've got it programmed so that if they have the if they do have the exact same name so if there's two john smiths in your fan chart if you no matter which one you clicked on in the outer list here as long as you clicked on a cell where ad john smith was supposed to go it registered it is correct and it filled it in properly so i could put my father as my my grandfather's father you could if they had the exact same name now if their name if one was listed in wiki tree as joe and the other was as joseph then it went that way but is it joseph joseph and my grandfather is earl without an e and my grand my father is earl with an e so they would not match that hurt he one of his uh teachers in elementary school made him add the e made him add the e isn't that funny that is crazy wow that was horrible do you have you have the the dates the birth and death dates on there right i do i added that as an option so when you um and it's new so it's under hints so it's another hint that you can add it to to make it more difficult for yourself or make it easier for yourself i should say the other thing that i added this this time was um you see how the there's always um there's one person that's highlighted there and that's the person that you um you're trying to find a spot for and uh i believe she goes okay she is uh i think she might go there nope but there there we go so i missed one i got one wrong ding ding yeah it would have dinged it should have dinged at me um um but if there's no one highlighted it used to be that if you've dragged it if you moved it around it would count as an extra miss and so people were complaining that they were getting misses counted against them but they were just repositioning the fan chart so i've changed the code so that if if something's highlighted and you grab the fan chart to move it then that counts as a miss because it thinks i want it to go in that blue spot there yeah okay to see that but so let me position mahi i'll just see and she belongs there yes i should have now there's no one highlighted so i can grab anywhere even in the fan chart but you can you don't actually have to grab the fan chart you can just grab outside of the fan chart boy it's a minute 10 greg you are so slow okay the other thing i did was um i used to have the tab key to go from one to another but i changed that because the tab he also went up into the the url bar so i've now changed it to a the z and the x key and so you can go forward with the x and backwards with the z almost as if you're playing a video game awesome love it there's the fandoku game hope you enjoy it and without my laptop while it's in the shop my good laptop i'm not going to do any more programming this week so i might actually do some genealogy this week and work on my family tree for a change we got some stuff coming up angela landsbury is our wiki tree challenge you can check out the highlights from her time interesting discussion yesterday on in the genealogy squad chris fariello posted that we were working on celebrity people for a challenge this year and there were a few people who came in and said hey chris who cares about celebrities and i was like whoa wait it's not about the celebrity the celebrity is just a fun place to start it's connecting the rest of the stuff to the tree so that was an interesting conversation in that those those naysayers stopped naysaying so chris did a good job of promoting that yesterday um how would you like to see us celebrate wiki tree's 50th anniversary next year are we going to have another wiki tree day in supposium are we going to just have a day of wiki tree fan duke go fan duke go i can't even say so duke and doku and doku so go in and comment on that the challenge 21 for robbie coltrane's ancestors so you can jump in on that and have you seen the wiki tree browser extension that is a new browser extension that uh is up i have not tried it yet but i'm going to today i hope make sure you vote those answers and questions i will check it that out yeah we will be back here next week uh and we will see you uh if there's not something else that somebody else wants to to throw up but uh we'll see you next week same place same channel and bet you go we'll be back but actually i won't be back next week i have you just started and now you're taking a day off i know show everybody your mug real quick canada she she tried to she tried to sweet talk us by drinking out of a canada mug this morning i'm just saying that's great so that is your wiki tree broadcast livecast for the week and we will see you next time see you next time everyone bye we'll see you


All right, there we go. So I'm Toby. I'm from the lovely city of Hamburg in Germany And we have this project called privacy score.org and for the next 20-ish minutes I want to introduce you to the platform I want to show you what it does and what our aims are and I hope that you know After this session, you will know what it is and you will like hopefully like it Maybe you will even send patches or buck reports that be great. So let's start Privacy score.org is a service for investigating security and privacy properties of web pages. So what does that mean? Well, there's several definitions, right? I mean, depending on who you ask, you get Different answers as to what it means for a website to be privacy friendly or not. In our case We were noticing that the city of Hamburg's webpage You know, this is the website of the city of Hamburg and this is the website for social welfare So if I'm interested in social welfare, then I visit this website of Hamburg DE You can't notice but that's like the city where I live in and on this website You have multiple trackers like plenty These are the companies that also know that I'm interested in social welfare And I mean, here in Europe it's probably natural that this is a more tangible topic Like it's a more privacy, you know, this topic needs more privacy than other topics I was recently in Cuba and I think the concept of social welfare is a good thing And people are not necessarily concerned about people learning that you're interested in social welfare because everybody does So in Europe, however, it's a bit of a touchy subject and you might not necessarily want other people to learn That you are, you know, not among the top 1% or whatever and that you are interested in social healthcare So these companies also learn that you are potentially poor or whatever And the question we had is, is that the new normal? Like do people do that? Is that like the world we're living in now? And we didn't really have a tool to answer this question Because I mean, you needed to investigate all these websites of, you know, the public sector and check whether they use external tracking companies or not So we built this service for scanning the websites and then you could argue, well, there is so many services already that scan websites, right? There is like the most famous one is probably the SSL Labs one which scans your TLS configuration of your web service And there is like a privacy, more privacy focused thing from the data protection agency of non-confuse I think it's Sweden, but I'm not entirely sure These services exist and they are, you know, they're providing their service and it's great And there's a few others, there's one from the Fraunhofer and there's yet another one which sort of tries to make propaganda for using TLS on your web service And these are all great services and they're all good There's more advanced ones, but they target the operators of the websites rather than the users Or the services use a more predefined scheme of getting points to websites, you know, of getting or of ranking the results This is the, from the Mozilla Observatory, like the scheme of how they give you points or deduct points And our idea was to have public benchmarks which make it possible for website operators to get a benefit out of making the website more privacy friendly So how would that work? The idea was to have public lists, you know, you would group similar websites Imagine all German cities in like one list and then you would see these websites being ranked And hopefully, you know, a lower ranked website would see that they could do better, they could, you know, go to the top of the list When they would use one less or one tracker less or something So that you have a publicly available list of your, say, performance, how you compare to other websites And then by implementing some more measures, you would, you know, gain more points and thus be better in the ranking And of course, these cities in Germany is just one example You could easily think of other examples like, you know, health care providers Or because we're at farce them of new Linux distributions or desktop systems I'm a GNOME guy, by the way, so I have a slight bias towards GNOME And I try to sneak in some propaganda, you know, and fall in favor of GNOME every so often So you could do that And this was the idea to have these lists of websites and to have people compare, you know, these websites among themselves You know, what we do not want to do is do any kind of pentesting or aggressive sort of security checks Like things that would alter the state of the server, you know, are not within our scope And also, it's legally more problematic in everything We intend to have, to make the user change the ranking, change the results You know, because for some people it might not necessarily be interesting to, I don't know Know whether these servers are, like, located in Europe This is especially true for American companies, you know If you're comparing American websites then whether these servers are located in Europe or not Is not necessarily interesting for the ranking of the websites And our goal is to let the user configure their ranking and to enable the user to make their own informed decisions Based on the data that we have collected We're not there quite yet, but I mean, hopefully we'll get many new contributors soon And then we'll get the patches to make that happen And it's a free software, of course, because we're at Fasten, right? This is a GPLv3 software, you can download that from GitHub and install it and run it And, you know, improve and share and hopefully make the world a better place By scanning the websites and telling them how they could improve, you know, the privacy on the web And, yeah, so please check it out, PrivacyScore.org is the main website And you'll find it easily on GitHub And with this tool to coming back to the idea We now have something that can scan various lists of websites and compare them In order to, you know, answer the initial question, the research question Of whether HamburgDE was more special than other cities And there's actually this list, it's on PrivacyScore.org If you click through the website, then you can see that we did add the city's use tracking services Well, we have these few lists We do have new sites because it's more or less common knowledge That publishers, like news publishers, do use more tracking services than other, you know, websites Categories of websites We also have the new Linux distributions from distrowatch.com And you see we have attributes And the idea is that you can sort of correlate the attributes with their performance Maybe bigger companies have better privacy properties than smaller companies Maybe distributions, older distributions are better in terms of privacy than newer distributions Things like that And so you can create these lists, everybody can create such a list And hopefully these lists are annotated with a lot of properties And we have projects with a standard FOSDEM So you could, you know, click the open the list and see the results And check how many of the projects that we have here at FOSDEM use tracking services Turns out all do but two So all the, I forgot the exact number, like 100 or so projects being present here All of them do tracking but two The FSF, yay, and Viking hosting And you can, of course, scroll to the very bottom of that list And, you know, see where this project is here at FOSDEM Where they have their stand and then approach them and tell them Well, listen dude, if you would enable, I don't know, TLS 1.2 or so Then you would gain two points, maybe you should do that And then your ranking would raise, like you would be better in this list So please check it out, it's like live right now You can check it out in this very moment Then hopefully if you know people involved in these projects And, well, and you know who can make their websites better, more private More privacy friendly, more privacy friendly Then please go there and approach them and help us making the web a better place And we have, because I mentioned I'm a known guy We've also set up a list of desktop environments And you can compare, you know, which desktop performs how well in these tests And maybe you select your new desktop environment based on these results Maybe not What do we do? So I've now talked a lot about the idea of what we intend to do What we intend to achieve And now I want to talk a little bit about how we intend to do that Right now we have four categories of checks So we check four big things We have four pillars of checks that we do And one big check is the note tracking check That uses OpenWPM, it's a great software library, it's a framework It's essentially Firefox with a Selenium And it does various, well, checks itself It tells you how many requests the browser performed And how many of those requests were towards known tracking services And these type of things So OpenWPM we use here And then we sort of display the results in an aggregated and hopefully nicer manner Then we use test SSL for checking the TLS configuration on the web servers On the web server and on the mail server And then we check things like do they actually support TLS at all? Do they support TLS in recent versions? Do they, does the TLS stack have known vulnerabilities? And you would be surprised to learn how many servers out there actually Have known vulnerabilities that would be easy to check by simple update Of their open SSL library or something And these, we use these tools like test SSL in this case And display the results in a hopefully nice manner And then we check for basic attacks Relatively simple attacks that could be possible Or whether these attacks are possible at all This includes certain headers that should improve the security while browsing the web Think of the X frame options header Or think of the content type header So that your web browser defends certain attacks much Or that your web browser can defend against certain attacks more easily Than if the header was not set We also do some interesting information leakage checks I like those because, well, they tend to be more dramatic in certain cases This is some instances of people leaving their private key around We test for domain.com slash key. What is it? Or private.key or something, or domain.key And sometimes people just leave their stuff behind On the root directory of the web server without deleting it And then you may be able to catch that private information And of course, when you find the private key of the TLS certificate Then you can decrypt all the communication and that's no good So we do these types of checks as well And we are of course open to more checks And currently we're not doing all the checks possible Because we simply don't have the tooling to do that So if you can think of a certain check that you think is important Then we'll be happy to add it to the privacy.org platform So I've talked about that How does the actual ranking then look like? By now some of you have opened the website already We have the concept of lists So people are supposed to upload lists with the URLs And then optionally some attributes for each entry And then we show the results in these columns And the user can change their ranking based on their preferences By reorting these columns In the future we hope to have a more fine-grained sorting And filtering mechanism for the results Right now it's a bit primitive We're being academic so we're not necessarily the best software engineers We code up until the point where it works And then we probably need to go on to the next project So there's a lot of room for improvement That's the positive formulation of the situation So many patches can be contributed still Because it's not yet the pinnacle of software design and architecture So if you want to learn some Python and web and Django Then you can improve the project very easily There's some low-hanging fruit around Anyway, as I've said, we try to enable the regular user To make informed decisions based on the data So we're trying to display the information in a manner That allows users to make informed decisions We've opted for these red, yellow and green status icons And green with a tick mark is good And red with an axis not so good And the middle ground is the orange thing And we try to make an aggregate of the results available also So that you get a general idea of how well or how bad this list performs overall And this is the list And then you can get the more detailed results By clicking on one item of this list And then you see what checks have been performed And then you can hopefully learn how to make your results better With the next scan So that's the idea, at least, that you can improve your offering If you wanted to You can expand certain items to get a more detailed description of what the check is about And what the result means, how the result came together This is a PHP info We get this often Many people leave PHP info.php around And then you can say, well, so people learn that I run PHP What's the matter? Well, you write, that's probably public information Everybody does, PHP, everybody's sorry about it Nobody really wants to run it Everybody knows that, it's a terrible thing In this case, though, we see that it's a very old Linux version, right? It's been built two and a half years ago from now And this particular version is probably eight security fixes behind the most recent state So with this information you can infer Or the hypothesis is that with this version you have at least eight security vulnerabilities Because you've skipped eight releases, eight minor fixes So the attacker may have an easier game if they know that you're running this version Which is vulnerable against this or that attack And this happens very often And I think that website operators do not necessarily want to expose that They do that because they are installing this service or whatever And then once they're done they go on to the next project And maybe they've just forgotten to delete this file And maybe such a tool like privacyscore.org would be very helpful for them to, well, not forget about these things So we're trying to be helpful there and make the world a better place People might not necessarily be happy with us being such an intrusive Client and requesting all these weird or potentially malicious files And some people might rightfully ask, well, I actually allowed to do that With what gives you the right to open our website Well, this is sort of this sort of request that we get every now and then And because we're in Germany you cannot simply open a website You need to have this investigated whether you can And we did, turns out, yes, you can open websites But it's not as trivial as it sounds, right? I spare you the details But in this, like a couple of weeks ago, we got requests We got this, as I've said, we've got these emails How dare you to open our websites from companies who are ranked in lists And who are not necessarily happy with being out there in the public and all So it is German people ask the question whether it is legal to open websites And TLDR, yes it is Of course, you might not only ask the legal question, but also the ethical question Do we really want to expose the information that certain hosts are vulnerable or not To certain attacks, you know, because it also makes it easier for attackers to Well, compromise services, compromise the privacy of users And it's a valid question to ask And we've went or we've opted for saying yes, well, we hope or we think that the greater good is to Well, to make it easy for website operators to fix up their services And we do not directly show certain results, you know, which are very Which could be very or which could lead to an easy compromise of the target service And we try to, you know, be as helpful as possible without exposing information that would be used for attacking purposes only And of course, if you really don't want to be listed on the website then we respect that And we put you on a blacklist so that you'll never be scanned again And we expose that fact also, like everything, we try to be as open and as transparent as possible Because the actual main motivation is to make the web more transparent Because transparency is what we think is what we think is lacking in this whole tracking thing Because, as I've said, the initial motivation was to find out whether Hamburg was particularly bad or not By using all these tracking services and it's not transparent It's simply not easy to see whether, like, city websites do that or not So we are trying to increase the transparency by making all the data public By making all the results public so that everybody can see and make their own judgment about how the situation is So how do we actually do that? I need to rush, right? We have this architecture which sort of evolved a bit over time We have this, the queue of jobs which we distribute to several virtual machines We have around 30 right now, that includes, like, the web service, the publicly-facing web service And, like, 28 or so scanning, virtual scanning machines And that's basically just a Debian image which has Firefox and the open WPM and everything installed And then, well, it distributes jobs via a Redis queue and they return the results and everything And we do collect the data from all the hosts and then we interpret when rendering the results That's clever because then you can easily change your requirements and your ordering and everything And it's not so clever, though, because it's very intense in terms of computing So, just these three sides real quick I've mentioned that we put up the list of projects being presented here at POSDOM And these are some basic results So you might very well ask the question, how many cookies do I get when I visit eclipse.org? The answer is 78 And is that good or bad? Well, it's actually the worst This is like, you won't get as many cookies as from eclipse.org And is that normal? Well, it's not that unusual because LibreOffice.org gives you 75 Out of those, you get one third-party cookie Like, these are first-party cookies or second-party cookies These are third-party cookies and these are known trackers Like, companies that will collect your data over time and sell them Which companies who we know of that they do that And then you may ask, well, how worse is or how is the tracking situation? This is now sorted by trackers And we see that openset.org gives you five long-term tracking cookies of companies That we know will sell your profile after a certain while And the list is bad So here's the result, now you see how the situation is This is like a real quick, real quickly drawn table And you can see zero third-party requests are being performed by nine sites And then you can see how many requests are, how the distribution is of the third-party requests over sites And then I am finally able to close my session And I want to thank you for your attention And I hope I will see you soon on GitHub And I hope you will send more lists that will send bug reports, ideas and of course patches Thank you very much