Good evening aspirants, welcome to the Hindu News Analysis by Shankar A.S. Academy for the date 8th September 2023. Displayed here are the list of news articles that we will be going through today. Before getting into the discussion, I have an important announcement to make. The much awaited pre-storming test series is about to start. The test will start from 11th September and the first test is on 18th September. The other details regarding the test series are displayed here. You can go through it. Now without wasting time let's start the discussion. Look at this article. Recently the central government has sought public comments on the draft guidelines for prevention and regulation of dark patterns on the internet, mainly in the e-commerce platforms. The draft guidelines were uploaded on the website of Union Consumer Affairs Ministry. The public can comment on the guidelines till October 5th. This is about the news article. In this discussion, we will see some points about the dark patterns. A dark pattern refers to a user interface technique that is designed to manipulate the internet users to take specific actions that they are not interested to do. It is a little bit confusing, right? I will explain it to you with an example. I hope many of you people have ordered things through Flipkart. Sometimes when you are scrolling through the products in Flipkart, you might have noticed below the product that only one product is left. At that time, what will you do? You will probably end up ordering that product, right? See the pop-up that appeared as only one product is left is what is termed as dark pattern. In this particular example, Flipkart has manipulated you into buying the product using this fake pop-up. This is what is known as dark patterns. OK, I hope you understand about dark patterns. See, there are many types of dark patterns. Some of the common ones include basket sneaking, confirm shaming, forced action and subscription traps. Now we will understand about the Moon by one. First, let us take basket sneaking. See, basket sneaking is a dark pattern that places an additional or unwanted object in the shopping cart. So if the user does not consciously remove the product, the item will be ordered unintentionally. This type of dark pattern is most common in e-commerce and food delivery platforms. OK, the second one is confirmed shaming. It is a dark pattern that uses phrases, video, audio or even other means to create a sense of fear or shame or guilt in the minds of the users. It also offers the solution to overcome such bad feelings. For example, let us take the ad for hair growth oil that frequently appears in YouTube. The ad appears in a way that a bald person faces many shame among the public and to overcome that problems such person purchased some hair oil and he successfully regenerated his hair. So any bald person who is watching such a video will probably end up buying the hair growth oil. This is what is called as confirmed shaming. The third type is forced action. It is a type of dark pattern that forces the user to buy any additional goods or subscribe or sign up for any unrelated service. For example, let us take the pop up of offers in Flipkart. See, we might have bruised Flipkart for buying some clothes. At that time, there might be a pop up mentioning that there is a 60% discount on health care products. So it might change our mind and we might end up ordering both the clothes and the health care products. This is the example of forced action. And finally, there is the subscription trap. It is a type of dark pattern that makes the process of cancellation of a paid subscription a more complex and the lengthy process. So it is a kind of trap that ends up in continuing subscription even if you are not interested. See, these are some of the common dark patterns. As we saw in the news article, the draft guidelines for prevention and regulation of dark patterns were uploaded on the website of the union consumer of his ministry. See these guidelines aim to prevent and regulate the dark patterns that we have seen now. The government said that the guidelines would be made applicable to all persons and online platforms, including sellers and advertisers. Now the central government has sought the public comment on the draft guidelines. So we will have to wait and see what will happen in the future. That's all regarding this discussion. In this discussion, we saw what is dark pattern and various examples of dark patterns in e-commerce industry. Now with this, let us conclude this discussion and take up the next news article. Have a look at this news article. This is regarding the race of cost of meals in India. The article talks about a report on food plate expenses, which is issued by the crystal market intelligence and analytics. According to the report, the price of the vegetarian thali increased by 24% compared to the previous year and the cost of a non vegetarian thali increased by 13%. This huge increase in cost of vegetarian food is due to increase in tomato price. In our discussion today, we will learn about the concept of thalinomics and the importance in determining food prices. Firstly, what is thalinomics? The economic survey 2020 first coined the term thalinomics. The government called it as a economics for the common man. In simple words, thalinomics means economics of a plate of food in India. It is the attempt to determine the cost of one complete homemade meal that is the healthy Indian thali. Usually two types of thalis are considered for the analysis. It is the vegetarian thali and the non vegetarian thali. Quantities for cereal, vegetable, pulses and non vegetarian items are taken for each thali, assuming that at least two full meals would be consumed in a day. Based on this, the thali prices were calculated. So the thali prices included the cost of cereals, vegetables, proteins, as well as spices, condiments, cooking oil and the fuel that are needed to prepare the meal. So the price arrived in thalinomics is inclusive of all the items that is needed to prepare the thali. Okay, now why is thalinomics important? Thalinomics is important because the price of a plate of food has the most direct effect on the common man. We would get to know through thalinomics, we can understand whether the common man in our country is able to afford a completely cooked Indian thali. Okay, thalinomics tells us that food and beverages constitute 45.9% in the consumer price index. This is the importance of thalinomics. Now moving forward, let us see how thali prices are calculated. See the prices of the thalis were determined using the consumer price index for industrial workers. And this is published by the Labor Bureau. The thali prices were constructed for 25 states and united race using the average monthly price data from the Labor Bureau. Next, we will see how the affordability factor is calculated. The affordability factor is calculated using the daily wages that are derived from the annual survey of industries. Okay, having covered all the important points about the thalinomics. Now let us come back to the news article. According to the news article, there was a 24% increase in thali price. That is the vegetarian thali price. Out of this 24% increase, 21% is due to increase in tomato prices. And if we take non-vegetarian thali, the price raise was about 13%. This is mainly due to increase in price of broiler chicken. The report said that the prices of vegetarian thali will come down in September due to decrease in tomato prices. So that's all regarding this discussion. In this discussion, we saw what is thalinomics, the importance of thalinomics and how the prices of the items used are calculated in thalinomics and how the affordability factor is calculated in thalinomics. Okay, now with this, let us conclude this discussion and take up the next news article. Look at this news article. Yesterday, our union minister said that the government has seized nearly $1.2 billion from economic offenders in the past four years. He also mentioned that it was made possible because of the Fugitive Economic Affundance Act which was implemented in 2018. So in our discussion today, we will see the details about this Fugitive Economic Affundance Act. Let us start with the basic. This Fugitive Economic Affundance Act was enacted in 2018. It was enacted to seize the properties of economic offenders who have left the country. The provisions of this act are enforced by the Enforcement Direct Rate which functions under the Ministry of Finance. Now, who are classified as Fugitive Economic Affundance? A person against whom an arrest warrant has been issued for committing an offence listed in this act is called a Fugitive Economic Affundance. Here, the value of the offence should be at least Rs. 100 gross. This applies to two types of individuals. Those who have left India to avoid criminal prosecution and those who are refusing to return to India to face criminal prosecution. Here you have to know that the scheduled offenses listed under this act are fraud, money laundering, counterfeiting government stamps or currencies, check dishonor, corruption, etc. For example, Neerao Modi, who is a diamond merchant, is accused of defrauding the Punjab National Bank of over 13,000 crores. He fled India in 2018 and is currently living in the United Kingdom. In 2019, he was declared a Fugitive Economic Offender under this act. Another diamond merchant named Mehul Chosky and former IPL Chairman Lalith Modi were also listed as Economic Offenders under this act. These persons are some of the examples of the Fugitive Economic Offenders who are living outside India right now. Now, who declares an individual as an Economic Offender? See a special court which was created under the provisions of prevention of money laundering at 2002 will declare a person as a Fugitive Economic Offender and this court will issue arrest warrant against the offender. Appeals against the orders of this special court can be made before the High Court. Now what happens to the offender under the Fugitive Economic Offender Act? See the properties of the Fugitive Economic Offender will be attached and confiscated. The central government will appoint an administrator to manage and dispose of these properties. In addition to this, the offender is restricted from filing or defending any civil claim in India. So this is all we need to know about the Fugitive Economic Offender Act 2018. Now with this, let us conclude this discussion and take up the next news article. Now take a look at this opinion page article. The article is actually a conversation between two imminent persons. Since there will be an election in five states at the end of 2023, political parties have been making a number of promises. One among the promises to address the concern of price rise of essentials. But the question here is, do all these promise provide solution to a systemic problem, which is none other than jobless growth? The article tries to answer this question. So in this discussion, we will see some of the important points highlighted in this article. Before getting into the discussion, I have highlighted the syllabus regarding this discussion. You can go through it. Now let's start. Let's begin with the promises made by the Congress Party. The Congress Party is going to use the five promises template in the upcoming assembly elections. The Congress Party previously used this strategy in the Karnataka Assembly elections. The five guarantees are firstly, providing 200 units of free power to all households. Secondly, providing rupees 2000 monthly assistance to women heads of the every family. Then providing 10 kg of free raise to every members of the BPL households. Fourthly, providing 3000 rupees every month for unemployed graduates. Finally, providing rupees 1500 for unemployed diploma holders both in the age group of 18 to 25 and a free travel for women in public transport buses. These are the five promise template of the Congress Party. See even though these promises are populist measures, it is intended to connect with the concern of the common people. But the thing is that these promises do not address the larger systemic issue of unemployment. See, unemployment is India's single biggest problem, mainly in case of educated youth. This does not mean the positive growth rate that is projected for India is fake. Indian economy actually is growing at a decent rate. But at the same time, unemployment level in India is also very high. That is, India is currently facing a era of jobless growth, where the economy is able to produce more goods and services without a simultaneous increase in the employment opportunities. So instead of focusing on populist measures, the government needs to give due attention for growth of employment. Okay, for this to happen, we need to keep in mind two important things. One is structural transition to overcome the middle income trap. And the second one is energy transition that will eventually generate huge employment. See here, the middle income trap refers to a situation where a middle income country like India is failing to transition to a high income country due to raising cost and declining competitiveness. To overcome this middle income trap, a country must undergo certain structural changes. The changes include expanding and diversifying the export industries, creating a culture of innovation by increasing R&D spending, investing in modern infrastructure, etc. Apart from this, the labor markets can be made more flexible. And the social safety nets can also be provided to workers. They can also be provided with income security. In addition to this, to escape the middle income trap, support can be provided to MSME sector to encourage entrepreneurship and job creation. And in the agriculture sector, technological intervention can be provided to increase the overall output. And in addition to this, inputs can be provided to extract high value added products. These are some of the steps that the government can take to escape the middle income trap. See, the thing is that these structural reforms require a long term commitment and the supportive political environment. So government instead of putting money in the hands of people through nonproductive measures, which ultimately results in inflation should focus more on the structural stages that are mentioned here. It is obviously necessary to take care of the concern of the common people through populist measures, but providing them employment can be helpful in a long term. This is the first step that the government can take to address the issue of jobless growth. Now moving on to the second part. See, the world is currently witnessing a energy transition. That is, people are moving from fossil fuel to electrical energy. Very recently in India, we are obsessed with semiconductor manufacturing. For example, recently a new project was announced with micron in which the government is providing 70% of the project cost. Actually, it is a good news only. But the thing is that the semiconductor manufacturing is highly automated, so it will not generate high amount of job. So instead of focusing only on the semiconductor manufacturing, government must also give enough focus to the mining of materials that will be used in the semiconductor industries like lithium, sodium and potassium. Currently, we have mined only 5% of our vast resources. So by focusing on mining of lithium, sodium and potassium, government can create local jobs and these jobs will be created in unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled sector. So all sections of the people will get employment by focusing on the mining sector. This is the second point mentioned in the article to address the issue of jobless growth. So by making structural changes to escape from the middle income trap and providing due attention to the mining of materials like sodium, lithium and potassium that will be used in the semiconductor industries, government can achieve both growth and help generate employment and provide jobs to the people. This will help India in the long term. That is all regarding this discussion. In this discussion, we saw the issue with the populist measures announced by the government and we saw the steps that can be taken to address the issue of jobless growth. Now with this, let us conclude this discussion and move on to the next news article. Look at this editorial article here. Recently, a historic trilateral summit was held between the United States, Japan and South Korea. It was held in Camp David. Here, Camp David is located near Washington DC in US. As the summit was held in Camp David, the summit is famously referred to as Camp David Summit. Based on this summit only, this article here is written. See the United States, Japan and South Korea are traditional allies, so the author says that the historic Camp David summit will further strengthen their strategic relationship. Also know that India and South Korea are now commemorating their 50 years of diplomatic relations, so the author says that the Camp David summit would provide an opportunity to strengthen relationship between India and South Korea. This is the overall essence of this editorial here. The editorial speaks about the significance of the Camp David summit, then how this summit will provide an opportunity for India and South Korea to enhance their relationship. And finally, it also says the steps that can be taken to strengthen the India-South Korea relationship. So in our discussion today, we will understand all these points in detail before getting into the discussion. I have highlighted the syllabus regarding this discussion. You can go through it. Now first let us start with the significance of the Camp David Summit. Firstly, the Camp David Summit acted as a forum to reserve the disputes between South Korea and Japan. See, Japan and South Korea have many unresolved historical disputes. They have a territorial dispute over the islands present between South Korea and Japan. Apart from this, both countries also have unresolved trade disputes also. So the Camp David Summit served as a forum to discuss the unresolved disputes between Japan and South Korea. Secondly, the Camp David Summit will help the three countries to maintain their strategic presence in the Indo-Pacific region. As we all know, China is continuously working to obtain a stronghold over the Indo-Pacific region. This has created a indirect dispute between China and the United States. See, the US has been traditionally dominating the Pacific region, but China's increasing presence in the region has angered the United States. So the Camp David Summit helped the United States, Japan and South Korea to send a strong message against China's aggressiveness in the region. Thirdly, the Summit helped South Korea to raise a voice against China. See, traditionally, South Korea didn't oppose China's aggressive action in the Indo-Pacific region. This is because of the trade dependence of South Korea and China. See, around 20% of the total exports of South Korea goes to China. So if there arises a dispute between China and South Korea, it will affect the economy of South Korea. But now the Camp David Summit has given some hope to the South Korea. So in the future, it will raise its voice against China's aggressive action. This is because if South Korea gets affected by Chinese action, US and Japan will come to its aid. This is the third significance. Fourthly, the Summit may help South Korea to join the Quad Grouping. See, South Korea is interested in joining the Quad Grouping, which consists of US, India, Japan and Australia. But South Korea is unsure whether Japan would support this move. This is because, as we already saw, Japan and South Korea have many unresolved historic issues. But now, after the Camp David Summit, the tensions between Japan and South Korea are coming down. So there is a chance that South Korea will become a member of the Quad. And finally, the historical summit will help South Korea achieve the objective of its new foreign policy. See, last year, South Korea introduced a new foreign policy. The main objective of this new foreign policy is to make South Korea a global pivotal state. South Korea also aims to become a significant player in the Pacific region. So South Korea's engagement with the United States and Japan will help it achieve its new foreign policy. These are all the some of the significance of the Camp David Summit. Now let us see how this Camp David Summit will provide an opportunity to India and South Korea to enhance their relationship. See, South Korea is strategically located in the Pacific region, and it is also located close to China. Apart from this, South Korea is also maintaining a good relationship with the United States. If you look closer, it resembles India's position, right? India is strategically located in the Indian Ocean region, and it is located very closer to China, and India-U.S. relations are going well. From these points, we can observe that South Korea is like-minded strategic partner of India. So the decisions that were taken in the Camp David Summit will yield benefits to South Korea as well as India. Apart from this, both South Korea and India are concerned about the rise of China in the Indo-Pacific region. So if any actions are taken to counter China based on the outcome of the Camp David Summit, it will not only benefit South Korea, it will also benefit India. These facts encourage India and South Korea to work together on their common problem. This in turn would enhance their relationship. Now finally, before ending our discussion, we will see the steps that can be taken to strengthen the relationship between India and South Korea. See, India and South Korea established their formal tries in 1973. It has been 50 years since then. So both the countries are commemorating the 50th year of their relationship. India and South Korea have signed several MOUs related to trade, defence, education and so on. And the relationship between the two countries is going well. But still there are some areas where these two countries need to focus. This will help strengthen their relationship. Now we will understand the areas where these countries can give additional focus. Firstly, there is not enough engagement between India and South Korea. So these two countries need to establish an annual summit at the level of the foreign ministers. Apart from this, a two plus two dialogue can also be carried out between these two countries. See, India currently has two plus two dialogue with US, Japan, Australia and Russia. If it is extended to South Korea, it will help in continuous engagement between these two nations. The second area is defence. See, South Korea is more willing to address India's defence needs within the ambit of India's Make in India program. So this willingness of South Korea must be utilised properly by India. For example, India recently developed self-propelled howitzer named K9 Vajra. The K9 Vajra had technology borrowed from South Korea, but it is made in India under the Make in India program. So like this, India should consider developing other military equipments in India with the help of technology from South Korea. This will also strengthen the defence and trade ties between India and South Korea. The third area is nuclear reactors. The nuclear reactors produced in South Korea are efficient and cheap. As we all know, India is shifting towards cleaner energy to meet its climate goals. So India should make use of these cheaper and efficient nuclear reactors from South Korea to meet its clean energy demands. This will benefit both the countries and enhance their relationship. So that's all regarding this discussion. In this discussion, first we saw the significance of the Camp David Summit. Then we saw how the outcome of the Camp David Summit will help both India and South Korea. Then we saw some points about India-South Korea relationship and finally we saw three points that India and South Korea needs to focus to strengthen their relationship. Now with this, let us conclude this discussion and take up the next news article. Look at this news article. It is about the outcomes of the ASEAN Indian Summit held in Jakarta in Indonesia. Our Prime Minister made a 12-point proposal during this summit. The proposal aimed to increase the collaboration between India and the ASEAN countries in various areas like connectivity, trade and digital transformation. Our Prime Minister also mentioned to create a rule-based world order mainly in the post-Covid era. He said that the Code of Conduct should be established for South China Sea in compliance with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Seas. This is about the summit. So in this context, let us see some of the important points about the UN clause. First, let us see when it was created. See, UN clause is an international agreement that came into force in 1994. This convention is a result of the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Seas. This conference took place between 1973 and 1982. UN clause replaced the four treaties of the 1958 Convention on the High Seas. Now let us see the important functions of this UN clause. UN clause is like a rule book for the ocean. It tells countries how they should use and protect the oceans. It covers everything related to sea from fishing and shipping to exploring resources under the seabed. Basically, it establishes a legal framework for all marine and maritime activities. Apart from this, it also puts up restrictions on the amount of toxins and pollutants that come from all ships internationally. If countries have disagreements about the ocean, the UN clause provides a way to peacefully resolve the disputes. These are the important functions of UN clause. Now let us see some of the features of this convention. Firstly, it established the International Veiling Commission and the International Seabed Authority. Secondly, this convention has set the limit for various areas in the seas. These areas have been measured from a defined baseline as you can see in this picture. Now let us see some information about these areas. First, let us take the internal waters. This area covers all the water and the waterway on the landward side of the baseline. It comprises of saltwater area and internal freshwater area such as rivers and lakes. So in this internal water, the coastal states have full sovereignty. Therefore, it is free to set laws and shall also regulate use of any resources. A crucial point to note here is that foreign vessels have no right of passage within the internal waters. Or we can say that the right of innocent passage does not apply in the internal waters. See, the right of innocent passage here means any passage that is not harmful for the peace or security of the coastal state. And such passage should be according to the UNCLOS and other rules of the international law. So fishing, polluting, weapon practice and spying by a foreign ship are not considered innocent. This is about the internal waters. Now moving on, let us look at the territorial seas. It is the water from the baseline up to 12 nautical miles on the seaward side of the baseline. Coastal states have full sovereignty. So it is free to set laws and regulate the use of any resources. Also the coastal state has sovereignty over the airspace above the territorial sea, the seabed and the subsoil beneath the territorial sea. Also note that here foreign vessels are given the right of innocent passage. Okay, this is the difference between territorial sea and the internal waters. Moving on let us take the contagious zone. See this is the zone which is contagious to the territorial sea. It is up to 12 nautical miles from the baseline. This means it is beyond the 12 nautical mile territorial sea limit up to 24 nautical miles. Here a state can continue to enforce laws in four specific areas. The areas being customs, taxation, immigration and pollution. So it can prevent and punish violations of laws related to these areas only. Importantly in the contagious zone the state has jurisdiction only on the ocean's surface and floor. It does not have rights over the airspace. Okay these are some of the important classification made by the UNCLOS. That's all regarding this discussion. In this discussion we covered important points regarding UNCLOS. With this we have come to the end of the news article discussion session. Now let us take up the practice problems questions. We have four practice problems questions today. Let us see them one by one. Let us take up the first question. Let me read out the question. The terms basket sneaking, confirm shamming, forced action and subscription trap are related to which are the following. From our dark patterns discussion we know that the correct answer here is option B dark patterns. Moving on to the second question. Here three statements about enforcement direct rate are given. We have to find how many of the statements given here are correct. Let us take up the first statement. It functions under the Ministry of Home Affairs. This statement is incorrect because it comes under the Department of Revenue which is in the Ministry of Finance. Moving on to the second statement. It is involved in regulating financial institutions to prevent economic crimes. This is incorrect because it does not regulate any financial institutions. It is done by financial regulators such as RBI, SEBI, IRDA, etc. The enforcement directorate is just involved only in investigating violations of economic crimes. So statement two is incorrect. Moving on to the third statement. It enforces Fugitive Economic Offenders Act and the Prevention of Money Laundering Act. This statement is correct. This we saw in the discussion itself. So only one statement is correct here. And the correct answer here is option A only one. Moving on to the third question. What does the term thalinomics mean in the context of economic analysis? The correct answer here option D analysis of food cost and inflation. Moving on to the last question. Here three statements regarding one class is given. We have to find which of the statements are correct. Look at the first statement. India is a state party to this convention. This statement is correct. India is part of the one class. Moving on to the second statement. It came into force in 1994. This is also correct. This we saw in the discussion. Moving on to the third statement. It establishes the International Vailing Commission and the International Seabed Authority. This statement is also correct. Since all the statements are correct here. The correct answer is option D one, two and three. Okay. The main questions regarding today's discussion are displayed here. Interested aspirants can write the answers and post them in the comment section. If you like today's video, like, comment and share it with your friends. For more updates regarding UPSU preparation, subscribe to Shankar A.S. Academy's YouTube channel. Thank you for listening.


When you start making videos or posting content regularly like Yeom has discovered what's something that happens is you start to get spam You start to get spammers saying hey, I have ideas to improve your video channel or your videos or I can repurpose your videos into TikTok reels Instagram reels shorts and you just start getting them or you start getting emails about people wanting to guess blog or having you guess blog or They can get you some spot on a website or whatever. It's all kinds of spam. That's supposed to improve your SEO and The problem with all this is if they were so good at SEO, they wouldn't be reaching out as spammers Let's let's first get that really clear the people who spam us are Desperate because nothing else they do is working and so they're like well I guess I just have to spam a hundred thousand people or Or you know, 10,000 people at the that's the least 10,000 people and hopefully one person out of the 10,000 will Will will be like well, I'm curious enough to try it out And then of course what they're gonna do to your channel because they're coming from a desperation spam spam Spamming mindset. It's probably not gonna be healthy for your channel in the long run So my recommendation is to ignore the spammers and if they're there any spammers who are watching I I'm sorry, and I I really genuinely hope that you can find a way to get into authentic marketing Which does not is the opposite end of the spam spectrum because authentic marketing is much more likely to build you a business That's sustainable stable in the long term and in the short term too. So Yes, Guillaume. Thanks for raising this congratulations on your consistency. That's now bringing you spammers But just know every time you see a spammer you can say yes That's a signal that I'm reaching so many people now that some of them are spammers. So congratulations on that


Yeah, what's the word of the day? The word is Greg Fry, President of the Hawaii State Bar Association, which is really interesting in ordinary times, but certainly much more interesting here now. So this is Life in the Law, Community Matters, and we're talking with Greg about his term, which is going to be up at the end of December, oh, two years, thank you, a two-year term as President of the Hawaii State Bar Association. Oh, my gosh, two years, Greg. What has it been like? Actually, Jay, what they've done is they've added, as you just correctly indicated, an additional year. They actually call it preceding the President year, which I'm in now. They call it President-Elect. It's virtually the same thing, but you're assisting very directly and as a companion, the existing President, as I do now have a President-Elect working with me. But what has it been like? I have to tell you, it is literally, I think, for anybody in charge of any organization, certainly a philanthropic or a charitable association or board, it has literally been black and white from 2019 into 2020. Anything we thought we were going to do traditionally, both budgeted by way of expenditures as well as traditional projected revenues, literally went out the window starting in March of 2020. And it was almost, take it as it comes, react as you will as we moved forward. Yeah, does that make it easier or harder for you as the President? Thankfully, I have a staff that is unbelievably dedicated and they're very seasoned, but I have to say for myself personally, brilliant question, I'd have to say while many lawyers most are very quick thinkers on their feet and can react, I think, to complex situations quite well and quite complete, every day for me has literally been an adventure, not necessarily overwhelming, but certainly new. So is it harder than what would have been on paper? This month we're going to do A, B, and C. The next month we're going to do D, E, and F. Yes, it's been harder from that standpoint because there were no ABCs, D, E, and Fs. Well, it strikes me just observing you at a distance and through the newsletter and the website that you're writing more, you're more engaged than any President at least in recent times. And I would just guess that you've been putting in 24 by 7 in order to achieve that. Am I right? You're, and I don't just say that because of that observation, you're an extremely detailed thinker and you listen, learn, and watch critically. That's what you do. You're absolutely correct, Jay. The amount of time and energy and effort I've tried to put into communicating on several levels, certainly through great shows like this one. Each time I've been asked, I tell you over and over, I'm privileged to communicate whatever I might be able to to help the audience understand a bit more about what has happened, where we are, and where we're going. I also have to act on many different levels, clearly in our industry as a cheerleader, as a positive-minded thinker, as a we can do this. It's often said, but we can do this together. We can get through this as a business. Many people don't recognize the business of law and how difficult that is and how it's been impacted. I have that aspect together with the business of the association, as well as my own business in trying to keep that going at the same time. 24-7 is a rather accurate observation, if I do say so myself. You must love what you do. I think you do love what you do. You love the communication part of it. You love the leadership part of it. Frankly, it seems to me that you love the challenge part of it, especially in the time of this great challenge. We've talked personally about how well you knew my father, and although he's been gone for so many decades and far too early, I think you see in me a lot of him. There's a couple of ways to get through a door. You could open it or you could break through it. Currently, under COVID, a lot of doors are shut. I don't have a problem breaking through doors in order to get to the other side. Quite frankly, I'll be honest to help and to guide whomever needs a little help and a little guidance, and that can be our fellow attorneys. That could be people who work within the law and in the delivery of legal services and the committees that I'm on to ensure that people still have their time in a courtroom before a judge to get their problem solved. That's another area of trying to help. Gee, they must pay you a lot of money for being the president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. You must be rolling in dough. What do you think, Rick? I'm rolling, but it's not in dough. As you know and you've heard it and you've done it and you've lived it and many of us have. Philanthropic jobs often are the hardest ones you will ever take on. There is no payment for me and you've heard it from me and I mean it. I'm a third generation attorney. To be elected by those I work with, I respect folks like you, the vaulted and revered three dot attorneys and we all know what that means. To have their faith, your faith, the collective faith to try my best. To me, that's an honor that I will forever cherish. And if I have to work really hard in order to do the best I can, I have no problem doing that. I was only joking. I know you don't make a dime out of this. And really the question is, how can you practice at the same time? Practice must have taken a reduction over the course of the last year. My law partner for many, many decades, Bradley Coates is a quirky fellow. You've had him online many times. He's a brilliant fellow. He's probably the greatest human being to work with for as many years as I have worked with.  So we, for many years as the bar was trying to get me there and trying to get me to come back on the board after having been on for many years, decades ago, we decided what we needed to do in order for me to step a little to the left in order to allow those I work with to take over. But I have to say, Jay, because of COVID, I didn't get to move over as far as I wanted to because we had to make as so many businesses have to make very tough decisions that required all of us to tighten up pretty heavily and to do a lot of things and a lot of more things than we might have otherwise wanted to. Well, you know, it strikes me. And I say this as distinguished, perhaps from other bar presidents that I have known and seen is that you are the kind of guy who's at the center of the, you're the hub, you're the hub. And I see what you're writing and I see what you're speaking, you know, in public. And I sense that you are a connector. I like your reaction of this. You connect the process in the courts. You connect the lawyers who are practicing. You connect their various organizations. You are at the center of the practice and the institution of the practice of law. Do you see it that way? Am I just, you know, off base here? Or am I right to say that you are the center of the Hawaii practice community right now? Interesting. I'll give you two quick answers to that. I think every bar president and you've known and walked with so many of them over the years and interviewed them and talked with them and you know them personally for decades back. I think every bar president has that responsibility and duty. I think COVID, however, when I have a board meeting, I think exactly the way you just spoke. What do I mean? I have a grid with 25 people in thumbnail pictures and they're all around me. And there I am in the center guiding that meeting remotely. It enhances what has always gone on, but it really makes me understand that I have to more than ever keep people engaged, interested, devoted, loyal, and I use this word a lot and it isn't one, but I enjoy it, stick to it-ness. Just keep going forward. So yeah, I see it visually now more by looking at a computer screen so often, but I do believe exactly as you said it is how every bar president needs to approach this job. Well, I'd like to spend a little time with you, Greg, on the state of the bar, if you will. You know, we've had COVID and a lot of people are leaving the state. You know, I don't speak for the lawyers now. I don't really know, but a lot of ordinary folk are leaving the state.  They can't make a living. They don't have enough money. They don't have a home. It isn't working for them anymore. And so they're taking a plane.  This year we have like three times that of people leaving the state. And that's probably forever. And I'm wondering, are lawyers leaving the bar? Are they leaving the practice? Because if people don't have money, then there are fewer clients. In the client pool, if there's no economic activity or very little economic activity, there are fewer business matters to handle. So what is the state of the bar this year? Great question. And we've been working on a lot of levels to determine that with more accuracy. We all have our questions. We all have our ideas in any industry, including our own. As it relates to the Hawaii State Bar Association, there's a couple of levels. One, we have done a survey. Surveys are only as good as people's energy in committing to responding. But we've done a survey. Many of the questions are exactly as you've asked. Are you intending? What are you going to do? How much longer? That's number one. Number two, we recognize fully that most of our revenue, in fact, the lion's share of it comes from bar dues, even though the association gets a small amount of the overall bar dues. One of the things we're trying to gauge is exactly what you said. How many folks, when it comes time to pay for your admittance into the next year, are going to say to themselves, I was kind of deciding to work a couple more years. But you know what? It's going to be too hard to ramp up and get back to parity. I'm going to give it up now. And just decide to go into inactive status or to resign from the bar because they're literally going to retire. Or, and we're worried about this, but it's a reality. People are having trouble paying their bills. So how many of those that don't pay timely are simply because they want to work, they are working, but they didn't have exactly the amount of money they needed on that particular due date to send a check over. So that's all of concern to us now. One thing I'm hearing in private discussions regularly with attorneys all over this community is we're waiting out our lease. We're waiting out our office space. We have had to downsize or shift or refocus. We're going to do something different, whether that is get a smaller space or work from home, create a fully operational office in their home and deal with whatever consequences tax wise, they might get some benefit. But that being said, they're waiting out. And those, if I go to 10 big law firms and knew that I was going to be able to count on an average of 30 dues paying lawyers from the small to the tall. And now they've dined downsize to half. Where did those others go? Did they find a job? Are they going to try to put out their own shingle? These are all unanswered questions that we're trying to chase down and we're working on next year's budget right now. And boy, is it a challenge in deciding what revenues. We know where we're down on our revenues. We know where we've saved money on our expenses because we're not traveling. We're not going to conventions. We're not doing a lot of things we otherwise would do. But it's a crisis, not unmanageable, but it's a concern across the board. Well, I have to look into the future and see what it's going to be in a few months. Might be worse, might be better, might be worse. So you're also at the hub of the institutional aspect of the profession. For example, all the access to justice programs that C.J. Rectonwald likes. And there are many of them. We've been interviewing them in anticipation of the pro bono program, which is this Friday they're doing a big webinar. We're helping them on that. And what I get is there's a lot of people being honored for their pro bono activities. But pro bono by definition means you don't get paid. And I really wonder if a lawyer and people say, oh lawyers, they make so much money. Not true. There's a lot of lawyers that are not making much money, especially now. So if a lawyer is having trouble earning a buck, how can he put in pro bono time? Because that's a lot of time. Sometimes you're committed to a pro bono case and you wind up putting tons of time into that to the exclusion of all other activities. Then I wonder how that's doing. How do you see that? Are lawyers here in this community able to put in the pro bono time that they used to? Or are they getting tight on that? Great question. First, I have to commend your organization. Think Tech Hawaii. Without you, so many organizations, including the HSBA, could not put forth these large virtual tasks. I am going to be part of the pro bono celebration. I know how intricately involved you are. And think Tech Hawaii. Mahalo for that. It couldn't be done without you. I'll do your question. Here's a hard reality, Jay. A hard one, but maybe fortunate. There are lots of lawyers right now without jobs. Those lawyers are licensed. Those lawyers can work if they could just be able to work. There is a segment of attorneys right now. That's not to say the ones who normally give pro bono work aren't still doing it. But any slack that's being picked up is being picked up by lawyers who I think and I have talked to who have said I'd rather do a little bit of work, even if I'm not getting paid to keep myself skilled, keep myself polished, keep myself home. And I feel good about it, even though it doesn't pay the bills. Yeah, wow. So how do you spend your day doing this stuff? I'm trying to slip into your skin, Gray. I imagine you're on the phone a lot. I imagine now in the time of COVID you're doing a lot of Zoom and other remote programs. I imagine that in years past it was a matter of physical meetings, but now it's remote meetings and there are more of them. And there are more people involved. And in a funny way, Zoom makes us more efficient.  It's interesting. Not only does it make us more efficient, and you've been at that cutting edge of IT and that type of efficiency long before we ever smashed into COVID. And when Isaac Newton, I think of that particular vein, but here's, not only are you more efficient, but you're more accessible even if you don't want to be. In other words, they know I'm in my office. They know that they can coordinate. Hey, are you available for a virtual meeting in 20 minutes? One half hour, one, two hours. What am I going to say? I'm going to another meeting? Of course I'm not. I'm here and I'm doing lots of these here. Absolutely correct. What's my daylight? I literally, Jay, have four accordion files with HSBA stuff that we constantly shift from left to right, front to center, back and forth with my paralegal who literally is as well versed on HSBA matters that she is anything in my other areas of my life, including my law life. And she just literally types up stuff for me ahead of time, shows it to me, tells me you need to answer this person, that person, or the next person. And that's what I do a little bit each day. It's changed, though, from your description of it. It's changed from the ordinary practice, the ordinary rhythm, if you will, of a daily, you know, day in the practice of law. And you've seen it, not only, you know, on your own account for your own practice and as, you know, an official of the Bar Association, but also, you know, the people who are out of the, at the spokes of that, of that wheel, you know, the far end of all the people that you traffic with. And I wonder what your thought is about what this is going to be like, what's it going to be like? The courts are changing, arbitration. We had a program, Bob Toyapuku last week, about arbitration, court ordered a next arbitration.  It's all different.  The change is at a rapid speed. And I say to myself, well, you know, we're going to be out of this in some way. The light at the end of the tunnel, maybe not right away, but say next summer, a year, who knows what, but something like that. And then it's going to be more, less abnormal and more normal, if you will. So the question is, how is the practice of law going to be different? How much of what we are learning now is going to stick? The courts, the arbitrators, the Bar Association, the lawyers in general. And for that matter, the clientele. It's interesting. I have appeared at lots of forums of late that speak to exactly what you raise. We speak of the new normal. But once we get back to whatever was close to normal, will we return to where we were? My prediction, working with the committee of operational solutions alongside with the chief justice and all of the senior and the judges across the state on a regular basis, trying to create access, trying to create efficiency virtually. It is my firm belief that much of the virtual applications that allow for perhaps, I'll call it lesser proceedings. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, maybe things from trial down. I think everything that's being thought of now is with an idea that much of it will remain after COVID is contained in a way that we can go on with our lives in whatever level we're allowed to go into a normal life. But the people, the consumers of our product, the high price of lawyering are going to demand. I don't want you driving all the way out to court and spending two hours on the road.  I think people who have learned how to do this in that committee, one of the biggest concerns is, oh my gosh, will the litigants be proficient enough on a Zoom application or a Webex application or a like application? And it turns out, Jay, and you probably know this better than anybody, that it is in fact the parties, the community that's far more well versed and comfortable in a virtual situation than most lawyers who had to play catch up to learn it. And so the more learned the community comes, the more they're going to demand efficiency that for the last year and maybe into the next year has been defined as virtual proceedings, virtual meetings, virtual work from a legal standpoint. You know, I have many other questions and areas to discuss with you about how the Bar Association has worked and is working differently these days. But I'd like to skip to one thing that I think we really need to cover. And that is the rule of law. We have several shows on Think Tech to deal with what Trump has done and will do when he gets back, as and when he gets back. And it has been in derogation in the views of many people of the rule of law. And we are about to see an election where not everybody agrees to be bound by the result. We are about to see an election where there has been suppression and violation of constitutional norms already and so forth. I could go on. And Hawaii, thank goodness, Hawaii doesn't really have that kind of issue locally. But every lawyer, every member of the Bar who is sworn in swears to abide by the Constitution and in essence the rule of law. And I wonder what your thoughts are about that. Are we performing our sacred duty to advance the Constitution and the rule of law? What else do we as a profession need to do now in these difficult and dynamic times? We need to talk about it a lot more, Jay. We need to have forums like all of these other forums dealing with COVID and how our businesses are going to go forward. That's an offshoot of our job and our responsibility that needs to be dealt with directly, especially in these fractured times in terms of distance and space. We can't get together in a room in a circle and talk about these important things. We need to do it in virtual on that issue alone. I think sometimes that critical responsibility is being blended all too freely with everything else we got to deal with. So I think we've got to paint it a little bit different color, perhaps neon so we can see it at night. And then we need to put that stick up in the air and hold it pretty aggressively so that we can have greater discussions on that. Yeah, what Shakespeare said, the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers. I think he was joking about it. I hope he was joking about that. The fact is that the lawyers are the ones who facilitate the community, the society, the civilization, and certainly this nation. And the lawyers have a special duty. They have to see that now. Right. But we are faced with not just COVID, not just a dynamic practice situation, but a dynamic government and a dynamic change to respect for the rule of law.  You are performing fabulous duties for all of us, Greg. And I really appreciate it as I appreciate you're coming on the show. There's another show in your future coming soon, Greg. I always look forward to that.  Thank you, Greg Fry, the president of the Hawaii State Bar Association, looking forward to more.


And welcome back everybody, we're here live at the Cosmopolitan Hotel in sunny and hot Las Vegas. We're here at .com, Splunk's annual user conference, this is our third user conference. We've got our first guest of the day, very excited to have Splunk's CMO Steve Sommer here with us. Welcome to the Cube, I believe it's your first time here on the Cube, so thank you for joining us. It is exciting to be here. Thank you. Excellent. So, very exciting time for Splunk right now. Obviously, you guys had a great, very successful IPO back in April, had a killer quarter just ended in July. And now we're here at .com in Las Vegas, you got to think about over a thousand attendees. So you know, you had a large part about, in terms of putting on this event, how do you feel and how do you feel about the event? We feel great about the event. The first year we did it, we have 300 people and each year it grows. What excites me is that we have not just great developers and Splunk employees speaking, but the customer contributions. We have customers and partners leading over 30 sessions and for me the most exciting part is hearing how our customers and partners are using Splunk to better run their business. Yeah, because the one thing in the keynote that was mentioned and I found really interesting is the number of customers you have that you kind of land, you know, internally and inside a customer base with doing some of the more traditional IT, monitoring, analytics, things like that. And then you see them expand to other use cases, which I think really says a lot about the power of big data and that's really what it's all about is kind of answering questions you didn't even know to answer before. So let's talk a little bit about kind of where Splunk is and why don't you give our audience a little bit of a primer first off on kind of how Splunk approaches big data and analytics. Okay. The founders of Splunk originally realized it was extremely hard to manage applications and complex IT data centers and they came up with a brilliantly simple way to collect these massive streams of machine-generated data and to make it searchable and analyzable to better run the business, whether they're managing servers, virtual machines, networks, applications, whatever, websites. And people around the world, we have something like 4,400 customers using Splunk to better manage applications, infrastructure, security, compliance, websites based on that machine data that goes into Splunk and they can do the alerts and analytics to figure out exactly what's going on. What we're seeing now is our users are taking that data and getting valuable insights from the business. So the leveraging that machine data beyond IT for the business, we're also seeing a fascinating trend of people taking data that doesn't come from the data center. It comes from jet engines, it comes from flood meters, it comes from power generation equipment, it comes from GPS phones, social media and figuring out ways using Splunk to create new apps, new visualizations and better understand what's going on in their world. And what was really the breakthrough technology that they came up with? Was it just the ease in which they could collect the data? Was it the ease in which they could analyze the data? Was it the ease in which they could then correlate it with other things to really gain the insight? Because as I understand, listen to the keynote, that's really one of the great things is to pull multiple sources and run the analytics across the sources. And then the correlations come up and the insight really pops through. From a customer point of view, we make Splunk look extremely simple. A lot of people have traditionally referred to Splunk as Google for the data center. Simple search bar, put in any term and in real time from a single location find anything they're looking for, even in massive streams of data. The reality is we actually have patents on a lot of the complex technology that takes massive streams of time series unstructured data and puts it into a form that you can search, navigate and explore that data and visualize it the way you want. But from a customer point of view, we keep it very simple. Very simple. And then how you can make it even more simple, it fascinates me to think about the types of data you're talking about and yet to be able to get that on a mobile device in a way that's actionable for somebody to do something. Can you talk a little bit about how kind of mobile has changed the world? In terms of making Splunk simpler and making the data more easy to consume by anybody, a lot of it has to do with making Splunk into a platform. We've developed APIs and SDKs so that any developer can create these very simple apps, beautiful visualizations, leveraging the functionality of Splunk and the data that's in Splunk in any way that that end user wants to consume it. So that's been a core part. As far as mobile goes, we're seeing mobile impact our business in a few ways. Running Reliaway mobile apps is really critical and it's really hard. Mobile infrastructure, the underlying networks are very complicated. And Splunk's ability to take data from all the different sources, the end cell phone or smart phone, the mobile operator network data, your own application server data, and be able to take all that data and correlate it, lets people have much better views on the service levels they're providing. Companies like ADP Mobile are using us for exactly that purpose. So I'm interested to hear a little bit about why you think Splunk is really hitting its stride now. Is it because of a lot of the activity and focus around big data generally? What really was it that enabled Splunk to really kind of enjoy this growth it's enjoying now? And in terms of, I'd love to get your take on just the overall big data picture. How do you guys fit into that landscape as one of the most successful big data companies thus far? What's been the secret do you think to growing this business? Is it the focus specifically on machine data or there's some other aspects you could share? A lot of the industry and financial analysts are referring to Splunk as the first mover in big data. We did have an IPO back in April. That was very successful. Years of hard work went into creating a complete integrated solution for collecting, indexing, searching, analyzing, monitoring and managing all of this machine data. There are many companies in the big data space and we can be put in that category but we're focused on the real driver for machine data, the real driver for big data which is the machine data. It's your website, your quick streams, your cell phone, GPS, stamps, all that stuff. It's driving massive streams of new data. The machine data is no longer the thing on the factory floor that's pumping along. Right now we're all carrying it around and generating oodles and oodles of machine data for lack of a better term. You go into a store, you create one transaction, point of sale, you buy a sweater. You go on a website, you can create hundreds or thousands of machine events and all of that provides valuable digital intelligence to better understand your business today which often is in a virtual world, not in a physical store. One of the things again on the platform, the example on the platform is this idea now with companies that you don't want to just build a company that builds an interesting point solution that you go sell to people. It's really about building this ecosystem and this platform so people can take and extend what you've built on and take in different directions. So in the partner pavilion, can you speak a little bit, how many partners do we have out there? Are there one or two really neat apps or partners that you've seen that you'd like to highlight? There are about 20 or so partners in the partner solution area. We also have about 10 or 15 Splunk apps that we're featuring as well. And the real goal there is to make it easy for people to leverage Splunk for their particular use case. So collect all the data and make that data usable for everybody. If it's a Palo Alto Networks user, use Splunk app for Palo Alto Networks or BlueCo or F5. We have great apps for partners like FireEye for instance. A lot of the Weeding Edge, Next Generation, Networking, Security and other vendors have apps and they view us as very complimentary that we extend the value, the analytics, the visualizations and data stored for their apps. So for us it's exciting, the more apps we have, the more of a community we have, the easier it is for customers to leverage that data in multiple ways, the easier it is for them to solve a problem out of the box. That's interesting, yeah, because I think what we've seen in the Big Data Space generally is that really it's about community and kind of building applications not in silos but in kind of a community effort, kind of sharing best practices and learning from new use cases and things like that because this really seems to me to be a new type of computing. This isn't really an evolutionary thing. To me it seems like kind of a whole new way of looking at how we do business. This data as kind of the currency or the, you've probably heard, data as the oil of the 21st century enterprise. You've got to refine that and define insights into action, move those into action. So I wonder in terms of as you go forward, you mentioned, I should say Godfrey mentioned during his keynote that a few years ago it was a little bit difficult to explain to people machine data why it was important and it seems like that certainly is getting that message out but as the CMO, what's your focus in terms of messaging and really trying to reach people to help them understand what this Big Data is all about and specifically what Splunk is all about? Well our core users, and Splunk has always been focused on our core users having a very valuable perpetual software license for a free product, having fun t-shirts, branding. Our core users understand machine data, logs, events, alerts, those types of things. The higher level people have been more focused on traditional structure data coming out of the business systems and business intelligence use cases. And what we've been able to do is educate the market that that machine data is just as valuable or probably more valuable than additional more limited business intelligence use cases. And that's why we refer to Splunk as a platform for operational intelligence taking all the data from your infrastructure, from your customer interactions on websites, a lot of other data sources and making it valuable whether you're a sales person, a marketing person, a finance person, an IT person, understanding what exactly is going on in your business and seeing that in real time. Do you find a lot of the enterprises are just in shock, just not quite sure what to do with this giant proliferation of important relevant data outside of their walls and how they're supposed to respond to it, how they're supposed to keep track of it. I would imagine you walk into customers who are just throwing their hands up that they've lost control of a really significant and important amount of data about them, from them, their customers, that they have absolutely no control prior to recent times visibility. So is that a big concern and is your solution really helping them try to rein that in a little bit? There's definitely a lot of hype around the topic big data. We see a lot of companies hiring data scientists investing in large clusters of these open source big data solutions and that's all fine but we think of it as big data with a purpose. Our users can start really small, low risk, download splunk, solve a specific problem and most of our customers don't start thinking they're going to change the business with this machine data. They start with we're going to troubleshoot, we're going to monitor root cause analysis, we're going to drill down in the data and find that needle in hay stack. Then we're going to start being more proactive and alert. Then we're going to get all of our IT data, machine data and have end to invisibility and see how are we doing as a service provider with our SOAs and KPIs and then they realize if we partner with the business side we can take this data and understand really valuable insights for the business. If we're an online services provider which customers have declining usage patterns? What parts of the service are they attending to use more? Which parts of the service are they using and then dropping off and weaving our site? Expedia is a great example of that where they brought us into better monitor downtime and avoid downtime because for them it was millions of dollars a month in lost revenue. But they went from there to figuring out how to optimize their entire online marketing, web based marketing because they can see people coming to the site where they come, what ad networks would ever brought them to the site they can optimize the SEM spending, search engine marketing spending, they can monitor for security threats and they can actually with Splunk look at real time business transactions. How many of these people who are coming to our site are actually doing reservations and buying airline tickets and hotel reservations. And that kind of closed loop business intelligence, operational intelligence is valuable to everyone in the company. And that just wasn't available before. I mean is the phenomenal light that they just could not do that before or that the pain of trying to execute those types of analysis was just the hurdle rate was too high and you guys have just brought the hurdle down. Traditionally there were silos of data throughout the enterprise. The people running the infrastructure, the people running security, the website, the people looking at their customer, CRM type systems. And with Splunk you can correlate data from virtually anywhere and do any kind of analysis. So it really is an open platform and we sometimes talk to users and say all you need is a browser in your imagination. Splunk has a browser interface. It's a great paradigm. It's terrific. We've lived so many great technology waves and innovation that have come through over the last 10 years. It just continues. And only a few years ago it seemed like it was all the consumer kind of fun alternative ways to pick up the phone and call your friend with Facebook and social networking and Twitter. But now I talked to Camille Grant at CR Ventures who's so excited about Big Day. So excited about actually business use cases for things that exist to really change the world in terms of productivity. And I know part of the keynote was because we can really start to optimize and take fat out. So it's a really exciting time. As soon as I leave here I'm going to go listen to Target. I'm going to go listen to Comcast. I'm going to go listen to Expedia. I'm going to listen to Auto Direct from Germany because some of our customers are making the most creative use of their data with the solution that we provide. We look forward to hearing more about that. So with that I think we're going to let you move on to your next engagement. Thank you for stopping by theCUBE. Hopefully it wasn't too too taxing. Thank you for letting me be here. Thank you Jeff. Thanks a lot and again we are theCUBE. We are at the Splunk Conf 2012 in beautiful Las Vegas. It's warm here. Hopefully it's not so warm where you are. Next is going to be Godfrey the CEO Splunk. We'll be back in just a few minutes and thanks again Steve for stopping by. Thank you.