I ask the members, and those leaving the public gallery, to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible. As we move on to the next item of business, which is the member's business debate on motion 7.832 in the name of Alex Cole Hamilton, on Chinese state surveillance. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put, but I invite members to participate, to press their request speak buttons. Now, we're as soon as possible, and I invite Alex Cole Hamilton to open the debate around seven minutes. I thank you very much indeed Deputy Presiding Officer and I'm pleased to rise from my party to speak in this member's debate in my name. The People's Republic of China is a huge player on the world stage. It is the second-largest economy in the world. While its Belt and Road initiative has funded massive infrastructure projects in over 150 countries around the globe, China has projected its influence in an unprecedented fashion. Its huge economic clout is that we too are heavily reliant on China as a trading partner and the supplier of the tech that we increasingly rely on to help run our lives. However, there are serious question marks about the kind of influence that China may seek to exert over many countries who rely on it in the coming years and months. Recent events suggest that its intentions may not be entirely 49 oeddach, ein blynydd eich gofynig wedi'i darfwygen ar blynyddiol ac mae'r unrhyw yw'r dwyn ni'r amgylchgrifonau i USA. Rydych chi'n dechrau unrhyw o ddiwylidau cyllidolol cyn sydd gengyrchol gennym ni'g blynyddiol ac hynny'n i'n meddwl i gyrfa. Yr ymobaeth cael lleoedd eich gofynu cyfeirio i blynydd yn ymwysig roedd ein bod aros yn rhan i mwyloedd anghyraedd, ac mae'r regilar hynny wedi bod mae'n That represents quite alarming development by a Chinese state who is rhetoric, particularly in relation to Taiwan, has become increasingly concerning. There is a reason to be concerned about matters much closer to home. Ironically it is a fact that Chinese national intelligence law requires every Chinese base company to cooperate with state intelligence services. That's a fact. Ysch demandau i drosdugasunde i barnalis gwy Lloyd-D grandchildren adnwys arniadig blai iawn i dda i yr unig dynnu, ddonach a'r enghraifftau�eraiddol drwy west of ihnen i amdano'i gynhalaiddion i ddim yn weldon neu oesref. Diolch yn fwy i ddatblywy yn nation hynny. COATEN ddefnyddio, while we fit fit on our mobile phones and our computers. There are serious questions to be asked about how data is handled and, as the member says, who has access to it. I am grateful to the member for paving way to the point I am just about to make. In recent weeks, the chair of the House of Commons foreign affairs select committee advised UK citizens to delete the app TikTok from their phones, which is given the weight of evidence gymohono hwnnw'n gymwnaeth sydd yr workersostwyr cy glyfREKLor Clef, spolwyrrarnedd hon yn enalol gyda pooFCadiad o hwnnw i gyfrayf tiktok. Maen nhw'n gwybod i'r isberg, heik vision yn y gallu'r ysgolwyddaeth yn dda, ac rwy'n gweithio iawn i'r ddyfodol ffigurau i'r byw sydd mewn cyfforddiadau cyflwyntol, oedd yn gweithio'r mylwyr, ac i'r ddadu'r cyfforddiadau i'r ddyfodol, i'r ddweud yn gweithgwyr cameras, which are also used in the detention centres holding huigur Muslims against their will in Xinjiang. These cameras are also used by Police Scotland. Just last week, the UK Biometrics Commissioner Fraser Samson spoke of us having created a network of dependencies on Chinese surveillance technology without sufficient regard to risk. He also likened hike vision in particular as digital asbestos. Those cameras are not only a threat to our privacy and our security, but they continue due to cross Scotland flies in the face of the Liberal principles and human rights that we, as a nation, claim to champion. I have raised the alarm on this numerous times, but little action has been taken. Indeed, Scottish Liberal Democrats have led the way in identifying the threat that these devices pose. Although Liberal Democrat councillors in Edinburgh, in particular, have been successful in their calls to have hike vision cameras removed from the capital from local government estate, it is time that the Scottish Government showed some leadership here, too. It should echo the warnings of experts and issue an alert advising local authorities and public bodies against the use of such surveillance equipment, particularly equipment manufactured by companies linked to the Chinese state and in the orbit of its intelligence legislation. That would be a positive step forward, but Chinese state surveillance runs worryingly deeper than that. The United Kingdom shares a proud history with the people of Hong Kong, and I led the first debate in this Parliament on the plight of the people of Hong Kong. It is why former leader of my party, Paddy Ashton, was the first to seek and secure British passport for the Hong Kong Chinese. International solidarity for people that we may never meet is a core Liberal principle, and we have offered the people of Hong Kong, threatened by the ever-increasing authoritarianism of the Chinese state, safe harbour on our shores. I will take an intervention from Daniel Johnson. I am very grateful to the member for giving way, and indeed I think that we should all reflect upon the words of the Sino-UK agreement back in that date, but our obligation to Hong Kong people from Scotland runs deeper than that, given that this country is deep historical and, indeed, shameful legacy with regard to the opi boards. I wonder if you would agree with me that we have a very deep sense of duty and obligation to the people of Hong Kong that runs back many decades and centuries. I am very grateful to Daniel Johnson for that excellent reminder of Britain's historic complicity in the plight of the people of Hong Kong and our duty of care to them, and that is why I am proud that we have offered them safe harbour in our shores and visas to get here if they need them. Still, the reach of Chinese Communist Party intelligence services reaches them even here, under the auspices of, again, that intelligence law. There are even reports of that secret Chinese police station operating out of a restaurant in Glasgow. I have had direct discussions with Hong Kongers living here in Edinburgh, who say that their public meetings and events are often disrupted by agents of the Chinese state right here in Scotland. We have a duty to take that seriously and to safeguard both Hong Kongers and their allies and supporters from that sort of interference. The danger posed by those covert activities is very real. Unaddressed actions threaten to undermine our liberty, our privacy and even our national security. We are about to commemorate the anniversary of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Deputy Presiding Officer. I fear that, in the near future, we will look back on this time with an understanding that we were living in the early days of a new Cold War. This is grimly evident also in the Chinese Communist Party's apparent friendship with Vladimir Putin and their aggressive posture towards Taiwan. The US Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, has even warned that China could be on the brink of supplying weapons to Russia for use in Ukraine. We must take a stand now. We must firmly be on the side of human rights and international law. As a Parliament, as a country, we cannot and must not be complicit in human rights violations nor complacent in the face of such a potential national security threat. That is why the Scottish Government and the UK Government must now undertake an immediate comprehensive investigation into the reach of Chinese civilians in Scotland. There may be some who think that this is alarmist or believe that that sort of surveillance that I am describing is benign, but I ask them to consider the situation. Would it be the case that companies such as Hyke Vision and TikTok were instead run by the Kremlin or if Russian operatives were operating unchecked in our largest cities? If 2022 is taught as anything, it is that we must not take for granted the peace, stability and security that we have been so fortunate to enjoy for the better part of a century. I would very much like to thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing this motion forward. It offers us a real opportunity to debate an issue that, in my view, we should be debating a lot more, and that is our national security. In my contribution today, I want to reflect on what this incident means for us all, going about our daily lives, enjoying the freedom of living in a democracy. There has been much commentary about the Chinese balloon incident in the context of the wider threat posed to the west by China. Last summer, General Mark Millay, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, warned that China is increasing in its aggressiveness, in its rhetoric, but also in its activity, noting that China intersects in the air and sea have increased dramatically over the past five years. John Bolton, former United States security adviser, recently described China as the existential threat in the 21st century. Other observers acknowledged surveillance in the 21st century as unexpected and everyday part of international relations. A recent commentary piece by Russie described the event as neither new nor particularly notable, albeit that balloon stayed in the US airspace for longer than its predecessors. Scotland is a safe place to live, but the United Kingdom is not immune from the threat posed by bad actors. Many of us will recall the tragic terrorist murders of Joe Cox MP and David Amos MP and the radicalisation and recruitment of British citizens to dieish during the Syrian conflict. The current threat level for the UK is substantial, meaning an attack is likely. In his recent annual threat update, the director-general of the security service, Ken McCallum, reiterated that no one should be under any illusion about the breadth and variety of threats that we face, including Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine, bringing war to Europe, and an increasingly assertive Chinese Communist Party using overt and covert pressure to bend other countries to its will. He described how the Chinese authorities use all means at their disposal to monitor and intimidate the Chinese diaspora from forcibly repatriating Chinese nationals to harassment and assault. Recent media coverage has focused on so-called overseas Chinese police stations, including one reported in Glasgow, a matter that Ross Greer raised with the First Minister late last year. I note the comments made by Mr Cole Hamilton in relation to his interaction with local students on their experiences. The reach of the Chinese state also extends to using organisations, including the United Front Work Department, to apply pressure to anyone who is challenging the regime's core interests, whether that is on democracy or human rights abuses. According to the director general, we can expect it to increase further as President Xi consolidates power on an indefinite basis. I welcome the establishment of the UK Government defending democracy task force that will focus on protecting the democratic integrity of the UK from threats from foreign interference, including that of China. I would ask the Minister what updates she may be able to provide on the task force engagement with the Scottish Government on the work that they are taking forward. In the meantime, I value and cherish that we live in a nation where police officers are not routinely armed, where we can walk around our communities safely and speak freely on the things that matter to us. We will not, and we must not be complacent, maintain our focus on China's growing sphere of influence in a volatile international environment while defending our freedom and democracy. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton again for bringing this important motion forward today for debate. I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing forward this important debate this afternoon. I would also like to thank the Committee for Freedom in Hong Kong Foundation for their briefing provided. I have worked closely with the committee over the past year to ensure that those who have come to Scotland from Hong Kong are safe and free to live their lives without fear of persecution. I look forward to the committee's initiative forward and I would encourage colleagues from across the chamber to join me efforts. I know that I will not be alone in the chamber when I say that I have found the events in North America over the last couple of weeks very disturbing. A nation's sovereignty being so blatantly challenged is extremely worrying, and there are worrying signs at home as well as abroad. I want to refer to three areas this afternoon that cause me concern. Firstly, Taiwan, secondly, illegal police stations, and thirdly, the infiltration of churches in Scotland. I hope across the chamber that we all will stand with Taiwan in regard to its independence. I am proud to be a member of the cross-party group on Taiwan having visited that country a few years ago. I would be interested whether the minister in her summon up or perhaps she could write to me after this to let me know what engagement the Scottish Government has had with Taiwan over the last number of months. As both members have already alluded to, I think that we are all short to hear of the existence of a secret Chinese police station in Glasgow last year. A report from several liberties group safeguard defendants goes into detail about the workings of the stations that are found around the world. They found that local Chinese residents are used to doing the bidding of the Chinese police. That has caused a great deal of stress to Hong Kongers who live in Glasgow after fleeing their home for fear of persecution. I spoke to people who say that they do not feel safe walking the streets in case they are costed by someone who represents the regime that they are fled from. I hope that this whole Parliament can commit to ensuring that no foreign nation is unlawfully policing in Scotland and doing everything in our power to make those who have chosen to settle in Scotland feel welcome and safe. Finally, I want to refer to something that I have a specialist interest in—the apparent infiltration of CCP propaganda in some churches in Chinese communities. On one occasion, a Hong Kongers pressed his pro-democracy view in church. That has led to a heated debate between other pro-CCP churchgoers and him. In the sermon that the police gave a few days after the incident, he said the following. Hong Kongers should be grateful for what China has done for them and should not be rebellious. It is great to be Chinese. We should be proud of it. Even we here in Scotland will always be Chinese and should support the country's policies. I want to call our church leaders across Scotland to honour their positions for going political allegiances in church and simply point B people to Jesus rather than any earthly authority. We must stand strong against foreign operations in our country. I hope that this Parliament can come together and agree to stand against tyranny for those in our country who are fleeing persecution. I begin by thanking Alex Cole-Hamilton. It is really important that we use the events of recent weeks and months in the obvious and explicit use of Chinese state surveillance apparatus over North America to reflect about what that means and the actions that we should take. Some of those will be very much geopolitical, but some of them are practical and immediate. That is really what I want to talk about. As Alex Cole-Hamilton was speaking, I was just realising that I had been advised to install a hike vision camera in my constituency office. I did not take that up because I thought that the quote was too high, but in retrospect I am quite pleased that I did it. I would also like to thank Jeremy Balfour for organising the meeting that took place in this Parliament with Hong Kong refugees. I was really struck by their experiences, but I think that we are in danger of forgetting the events that took place just a matter of a couple of years ago in terms of the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, which is the reason that we are seeing this influx of people seeking refuge in this country from Hong Kong. The events of Covid and subsequently the Ukraine have overshadowed the fact that people in Hong Kong have been persecuted by the Chinese authorities. They were protesting against a next traditional law that we would have seen people from Hong Kong extradited for trial in mainland China in direct contravention of the Anglesino agreement in 1984, which article 13 of which states explicitly that the rights of civil liberty and freedom of speech would be upheld in Hong Kong in the future. That resulted in 10,000 arrests of protesters and there are now 1,200 political prisoners. That is according to the White House, which in 26 January extended the ability of people to seek refuge in the United States. 1,200 political prisoners. Let us just understand the scale of that, because in 2019 there were less than 8,000 prisoners in totality in Hong Kong's jails. That means that more than 10 per cent of Hong Kong's jails are political prisoners. I find that statistic horrific. I think that we must seek to fulfil our duties and obligations both through those agreements in 1984, but they are more historic ones that I alluded to in my intervention with Alex Cole-Hamilton. We have a real sense of obligation and duty. Our role as a nation, as Scots in Hong Kong, is not one that we should be proud of and one that I do not think that enough Scots are fully aware of. Our role in the opium wars, the unfair treaty port treaties, is one of shame. Therefore, I think that we have a deep sense of duty in this country to ensure that we welcome people from Hong Kong in reflection of that. However, the real thing that I took away from the meeting that Jeremy Balfour organised was just how scared people were. People were scared to speak in open forum at that meeting. They were only prepared to speak on a one-to-one basis of their experience, because they were not sure who they were speaking to and who else was in the room. In this building, they were scared to speak their minds, speak their truth in this building. That really struck me as something that is quite profound. When they did speak privately, they spoke of stories about being followed and watched, approached and questioned by people that acted on behalf of the Chinese state, and people who had academic positions and institutions in this country. There are three things that I would draw from that. First of all, we have a role as MSPs to ensure that people feel safe that they can approach us and that they will be treated with integrity, but also with confidentiality when they do so. I think that that is a role that we should take. Alex Cole-Hamilton I am very grateful—I am sorry to interrupt Daniel in his three points that he is raising, because they are excellent points and they are very important. Will he agree with me, though, that there are also Chinese citizens living here in Scotland for whom the Chinese state and the Chinese Communist Party does not speak and who share our revulsion and our concern about the outreach and the efforts to surveil peaceful activities, particularly of the Hong Kong Chinese here in Edinburgh? Daniel Johnson I think that that is a hugely important point. China, being such a huge country, will have a diversity of views. Anyone who thinks that the Chinese state acts and speaks for all Chinese people is severely mistaken. We should defend those who hold differing views to those of the Chinese state, whether they are Chinese or otherwise. Alex Cole-Hamilton, for saying that all three of my points were excellent, given that I had only stated one of them. I think that we need to recognise the role that our institutions may have in facilitating those. I think that we should note that Australia and Canada recently reviewed their academic relationships, particularly with Confucius Institutes. I think that there are welcome things to be had from those relationships, but I think that we do need to review them. That is something that we can do here in Scotland. We need to reflect on the role that other countries and actions that other countries may be taking. Iran, disclosed by MI5 director general, has made 10 attempts to either kidnap or kill its own citizens in the UK. The Turkish embassy in March last year was found to have been carrying out surveillance on its citizens here in the UK. Above all else, we must ensure that Scotland is a safe haven for people who are seeking refuge from despotic and repressive regimes, be that China or anywhere else in the world. Thank you very much, Mr Johnson. I now invite Elena Whitham to respond to the debate minister for around seven minutes. I, too, am grateful to Alex Cole-Hamilton for providing the Parliament with the opportunity to debate such an important and wide-reaching topic. I am only absolutely devastated that there are not more people here to talk about such a topic, as will be appreciated by this Parliament. National security and data protection are matters that are reserved, and we are therefore constrained in the laws that we can make in these matters. However, recent activities, as highlighted in today's motion, are timely reminders of the many continued threats that are faced. Those developments are further signs of how the global threat picture is changing, as has been mentioned. Ensuring that the security of Scotland and the rest of the UK and its data are a priority for both the Scottish and the UK Governments. As has been raised today, while matters are reserved, the impacts can be felt across the devolved sectors in Scotland. Ministers take security matters extremely seriously, and the Scottish Government keeps all policies under review. You will be aware, as has been mentioned today, that Police Scotland is currently inquiring into reports of an undeclared Chinese police station in Glasgow. It is upsetting to hear about the experiences that people have had that have been reported to their parliamentarians. As this is an operational matter for Police Scotland, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further today. In addition, we expect our institutions and businesses to be fully aware of the risks of any international engagement due to proper diligence and to take steps to protect their assets and people. I hope that today I will be able to provide assurance on those matters. Daniel Johnson I am grateful to the minister for giving way. Obviously, one of the most key ways that we have explicit relationship with China and Scotland is through our academic institutions. While I think that we do not want to see this treated a binary way, does she think that there is a need to review our academic links and institutional links through academia with China? Minister I think that it is always important that we do look to other countries around the world as to where they have done such reviews. I do think that we have such close relationships in terms of our educational institutions here and with China. I think that a review of that is something that is not going to be off the table. I think that it is something that we have to bear in mind. Turning first to the matters that recently took place in the United States, as Alex Cole-Hamilton will be aware of the US assessment points to a deliberate violation of their sovereign territory and airspace. We stand full square behind the decisive facts and taken by the United States and are following the investigation into this incident closely. The UK Government has indicated that it will conduct a security review to assess the dangers posed by the balloons and we support their review to protect UK airspace from these types of intrusions. The review will be used to help decide whether any changes need to be made to the surveillance of British airspace and the Scottish Government stands ready to engage in the process where appropriate. The Parliament will be aware of the efforts by the Chinese central government to strengthen its security legislation, as referred to in today's motion. According to that legislation, everyone is responsible for state security, which is in line with China's state security legal structure as a whole. The legislation includes articles that could compel businesses that are registered in China, including those operating overseas, or have operations in China to hand over information to Chinese intelligence agencies. That clearly, as has been mentioned, has data protection and data security implications in Scotland, as it does globally. Data protection is a matter reserved, and the UK Government will continue to monitor the threats to our data and will not hesitate to take further action if necessary to protect our national security. Organisations are expected to comply fully with UK privacy laws. I am grateful to the minister for taking my intervention. I understand entirely the landscape of reserved and devolved competences in this very complex issue. That is why I have sought to call on the Government to conduct an audit, if you like, as to the reach and influence of Chinese surveillance possible potential within our daily life here in Scotland. To make local authorities and public bodies, like Police Scotland, who are still using high-vision surveillance cameras, aware of the potential dangers and data breaches that could come as a result of so-doing. Minister, I can give you the time back. Thank you very much for that. That is absolutely something that I am going to come on to in a little moment. As highlighted in today's debate, the UK Biometrics and Surveillance Commissioner's recent report provides an insight into the extent of the potential reach of the national intelligence law of the People's Republic of China. In response, the UK Government announced that companies that subject to the legislation should not be able to supply surveillance systems to sensitive UK Government sites. I repeat the assurance previously given through answers to Alex Cole-Hamilton's recent parliamentary questions that the Scottish Government takes seriously the threats that this poses and is undertaking action within its powers to expose those issues. The Scottish Government is in the process of a multi-year improvement programme, which commenced in 2018, and all existing CCTV kit and equipment is being replaced with a new integrated system. That will have data protection and security cleanly at the forefront of our minds. We are also aware that the CCTV systems in local authorities and Police Scotland include equipment supplied by Chinese-owned companies. The national strategy for public space CCTV in Scotland, which was published in March 2011, is not quite up-to-date yet in terms of the existence of the world that we live in today, and the digital asbestos, as you put it before, is in front of us. We must look to improving that in the future, and I will keep Parliament up-to-date on how we do that. The Scottish Government continues to keep in close contact with the UK Government on developments in response to the Foreign Affairs Committee's recent recommendations, and we will act accordingly, including consulting with Police Scotland and local authorities, on what measures they might take in response to those steps. Next week marks the start of Cyber Scotland week, which we will have a series of events to help to make people and organisations more cyber-aware and resilient. I encourage everyone in the chamber to consider attending those events and to tell your constituents about the week, and to visit thecyberscotland.com portal and to share that on your social media channels. That will give people a little bit of a chance to pause and think about what apps they might have on their own phones and computers. Both the NCS and thecyberscotland.com websites are useful sources of information, advice and guidance. The NCS also has social media guidance, which covers most major platforms, including advice on digital footprints and privacy settings. I want to make a comment just before I close with regard to human rights and China. We have heard quite a lot today round about that. The Scottish Government's China policy supports the economic, cultural, education and social relationships with the people of China in keeping with the values of Scotland. We cannot forget that the majority of people in China want to foster good relations around the world. That means working constructively on global priorities such as tackling climate change and biodiversity loss, as well as challenging China in areas of grave concern, such as human rights. I echo concerns that we have heard around the chamber. We have particular concerns regarding the situation in Xinjiang. If we think about the other situations that we need to raise, people who have been persecuted for their religious beliefs in China and perhaps keeping at the forefront of our mind the situation in Taiwan and as well with the situation in Hong Kong. We are clear-eyed about our international engagement, including with China, and, as I have previously stated, we expect our institutions and businesses to understand and manage the reputational, ethical and security risks associated with our international partnerships. That concludes the debate, and I suspend this meeting of parliament until 2 o'clock.


I am Staff Sergeant Mish Salsa, deployed to the 99th Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron here at Adolfo Air Base. Here we operate the largest forward operating location of RQ-4s for tactical and strategic ISR. The RQ-4 is a high-altitude jet. It performs star missions for sent company. The warfare information is power, and this is one of the tools that we use to get our strategic information on our adversaries. The RQ-4 is piloted with two pilots. One is not located in the locator where it's operated. We call that the MC pilot, and here locally it's piloted by the LRE pilot, which is me. It is given commands to traction altitudes and headings, and then also has autonomous capabilities to land and recover. In addition to the RQ-4, the 99th ERS previously operated the EQ-4 variant of the Battle Airborne Communications Node Bacon, which serve as critical asset in the fight against Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, as well as in the withdrawal from Afghanistan enabling command and control for a wide range of coalition assets. Throughout this AEF rotation, the 99th has flown over 275 missions, delivering over 3,456 combat hours of intelligence collections over 2,659 hours of C2 across the AOR.


Let's remove this. Yeah, because he's developing mold everywhere. I don't know why, but... Can we spray some water there? This is the hot thing is there. Can you pass the bottle for them? I don't know why. So you're going to post this video? Yeah. You're safe, right? Yeah, I'm going to post the video actually. I'm going to post the video actually. I'm still working on this. Okay. The reason why I have candidates is because the mails are very thin while they collapse. That's why. I didn't want to keep running here and again and again so that's why. Just before we set... Can you see this thing here? This is the fibrous pericardium. Can you see how tough it is? This is the fibrous pericardium here. And we all know that the fibrous pericardium fuses with the tunic and gives you the great results. Remember? And the three great results, which are not from the top, we have the aorta, the pulmonary trunk, which is this one, and the superior vinaigrette. The superior vinaigrette is this one. This is the superior vinaigrette. So if I put my hand, the transverse sinus is here. I've not gone through.  So the transverse sinus is here. I've not gone completely clear. So these three great results are partially inside the fibrous pericardium. That is what you're seeing here. You're seeing the fibrous pericardium here. So this is the fibrous pericardium. You can see it is merging with the tunic and vinscia. So now that you've seen that and it's resting on the diaphragm, on the diaphragmatic surface, my finger has gone on there. It's resting on the pericardium. Cardiophenic ligament. Okay. So you can see the aorta there. The sending aorta. This is the arch of the aorta. So can you see this whistle here? This is the brachioscephalic trunk. Brachioscephalic trunk on the right side. This is the brachioscephalic trunk. Can you see? Can you see this dividing in two? The right subclavian artery here. And can you see it is giving rise to the common carotid here? Did everybody see this? Come closer please. Can you see the structure here? This is the vagus. Remember the carotid sheath behind that runs the vagus? This is the vagus. So this is the common carotid here. At the upper border of the thyroid it is going to divide in two. Can you see the division there? It will divide in two. Internal and external carotid. There. At the upper border it is dividing in two. Internal and external carotid. There. Can you see? External and internal carotid. It's dividing there. If you want you can come even closer. Thank you very much. I'm doing it in real time for you so that you can see them and you can follow everything. Where is the scissor? I think I've tripped. That's a carotid sheath right? Yes. Now you started taking. So break your sepanic trunk. Divide it in two. Subclavian and common carotid. Common carotid at the level of the upper border of the thyroid. Dividing into external and internal. I'm going to put my force in between the scissor to show you that. There. Is anybody else wearing gloves? Pull up. Pull up. Yes, pull. There. I've put my instrument between the external and the internal carotid. So this is the internal carotid and the other one is the external carotid. So the common carotid is divided into external and internal carotid. Can you see here? Okay. There. Okay. This is the Subclavian. We will trace the Subclavian now. Okay. Now I'll show you the next point which I've been telling in the class. The Subclavian R3 runs in the Scalene Triangle. Remember? I will show you the Scalene Triangle. You're supposed to give me a standing ovation after this. Okay. So here. Can you see this muscle here? This is the first rib. This is the Scalene's anterior muscle. And behind, can you see another muscle here? Scalene's medius. Can you see the small triangular space in between the two? That is the Scalene Triangle. Can you see the Subclavian R3 is running behind the Scalene's anterior between the Scalene's anterior and the Scalene's medius? Yeah. What else runs in the Scalene Triangle? Radial flexors. Can you see the three? The trunks. The superior trunk. The middle trunk. And the inferior trunk. Yeah. Superior, middle and inferior trunk. The Subclavian R3 runs in front of the trunks. So the Subclavian R3 is running in front of the trunks. And the three trunks are running. Scalene's anterior, Scalene's medius. So this is the Subclavian Triangle here. And this is the first rib. So the Scalene Triangle is formed by the Scalene's anterior, Scalene's medius and the first rib. And you can see. So this is where you get Scalene's anterior syndrome. Are we clear? It can compress both the Subclavian R3 as well as the brachial flexors. So this portion of the Subclavian R3 which is called the first part. The portion of the brachial, the Subclavian R3 behind the Scalene's anterior is called the second part and the portion after that till the first rib is the third part and after part of the first rib becomes the axillary R3. Are we clear? This is the other end of the cut end. Can you see? If you bring them together this is the other cut end. Can you see my instrument is gone in? This is the other cut end.  Axillary. So out of the part of the first rib the Subclavian becomes the axillary. Clear? For those of you who would like to see it on the other side we have done the same thing on the other side also. Let's start again from here. Let's continue again from the arch of aorta. On the left? Yeah. Now you have to pull like this and do a little bit of juggery there. Okay. So this is the arch of aorta. So we have done the brachiosepalic trunk. This is there. After the brachiosepalic trunk we have the the left common carotid. Can you see the left common carotid here? This is the left common carotid. My finger is gone under the left common carotid here. Clear? The left common carotid then continues for some reason in this what you look at I word they have ligated it. I don't like this one done by me please. Somebody else did it. I don't know why they did it. I think they did it to inject the embalming fluid you know so then I get it. So then this continues up and again if you were to dissect this up we will see the same thing as we saw on this side. So what you are seeing this is the carotid sheet. Can you see here? This is the carotid sheet. I am going to open the carotid sheet and you will see all the structures which I showed you earlier. There. There. And if you trace further up you will see this dividing into external and internal carotid which I have already shown you on this side. So let me just cut a little bit so that you can see a little more. Okay. So can you see? Here you can see the vagus much more clearly. Can you see the vagus running? So you are supposed to be asking the next question. You have shown me the common carotid on both the sides. Internal carotid. Good question. Let's start with the left side. It's collapsed here. This is the internal carotid. This is the, it's lateral. It's collapsed. It's very thin wall. Here. This is the internal carotid here. There. This is the internal carotid. It's highly, it's very, very thin wall. It's extremely thin wall here. And behind all of them will be the, can you see the vagus running here? The vagus runs behind the two red vessels. Internal carotid on this side. Now let's see the internal carotid. The internal carotid on this side has been partially cut and again they did some gimmicks. So this is the upper portion. I put the foreside here. If you notice there's a substantial size difference between the right side and the left side. In actual practice also, the internal carotid are the main venous vanishing of the skull from the brain. You will learn that next semester. All the cranial sinuses, they all ran into the internal carotid. From the signal sinus, they put the superior bulk and from the superior bulk, they drain out as the internal jugglers. On the right side, they are the main brain age from the superior satanic sinuses. So usually the right signal sinus and the right internal juggler vein is quite often larger than the left side. The left side continues as the straight sinus and then drains. So therefore, quite often the right side is larger than the left side. So that's what you're seeing here. Okay. So this portion, the remaining portion has been cut. This internal juggler here and the internal juggler here. Can you see it is uniting with something here? This is the the left brachiosephalic vein. Can you see the left brachiosephalic vein continues across and comes to the other side? So this is the right brachiosephalic vein and this is the left brachiosephalic vein. And they are uniting to form the the superior venic vein here. This is the superior venic vein. So this internal juggler and let's see the subclavian vein. This is the subclavian artery on this side. Okay. And I'm going to show you just now. We have seen the common kerotic. Can you see the next artery arising from here? This artery. Here. Can you see? This is the left subclavian artery. And this left subclavian artery again will run under the scariness anterior and becomes the left subclavian artery here. Can you see the roots trans of the brachial plexus here also? The superior trunk. The middle trunk. And the inferior trunk. And the subclavian artery running in front of them. Subclavian vein. Because this side has been cut. This is the other end of the subclavian artery. Just like this side. When I bring it together, they will come together. The subclavian vein, remember, runs in front of the scariness anterior. This is the cut end of the subclavian vein here. Here. So, left internal jugular, left subclavian vein you are writing about the left brachial plexus. Let me show you the subclavian vein on this side. Again, portion has been cut here. This is the cut portion. Because it's very thin board here. Instrument has gone in. So, this is the right subclavian. Right internal jugular. This was the subclavian. It was like this.  Subclavian artery runs behind the scariness anterior, subclavian vein runs in front of the scariness anterior. Similar to subclavian vein runs in front of the scariness anterior, subclavian artery runs behind the scariness anterior. Subclavian vein, internal jugular vein, uniting at the level of the sternocleamic joint from the brachioscephalic. Internal jugular vein, subclavian vein here, which I have closed. This is the subclavian vein. Internal jugular vein Uniting to form the left brachiocephalic. This union takes place at the level of sternocleavicular joint. This union takes place at the level of the first rib. From the first to the third rib is the extent of the superior vinaigrette and then it enters into the right atrium. Are we clear? Yes. Okay. Now, so we have shown you all the great vessels running from here to the neck and coming from the neck to the heart. This is the full thyroid gland. This is the full thyroid gland. Yeah. This is the actual size. Okay. Oh, you thought it was bigger. So, can you see this narrowing portion is the espous? This is the cricoid. Remember, this was the thyroid cartilage and this is the hyoid bone. We have already demonstrated that. Can you see the superior thyroid notch? Yeah. Can you see the laryngeal prominence? Yes. The so-called Adam's apple. So, this is the cricoid. You can see the cricothyroid muscle. So, the superior thyroid artery will run like this to the superior pole. And just next to that, media to that will be the external laryngeal nerve which will supply the cricothyroid. There is the superior pole of the thyroid and there is the inferior pole. There is the right lobe. This is this mis. This is the superior pole of the thyroid. And there is the inferior pole of the thyroid. And when you bring them together, remember, we said that the posterior lateral relationships is the periods sheath. So, the posterior lateral relationship is a crooked sheath to this side and a crotted sheath because I've pushed them out. They will be the posterior lateral relationships. So here, you can clearly see the cricothyroid muscle. This is the preco-thirteenth muscle of the cell at this time, which is supplied by the external angel now. Running in front of the dead person of the population will be the thyroid aema artery, but here it is not present and that will start from the brachiocephalocytra. So that is what you see here. So these are the structures which I wanted to show you. And I think this more or less shows you some of the branches of the subclavian artery. And you can see some of the intercostal veins, remember on the left side we had the rule of 444. The upper fold drained into the left brachiocephalic vein, the middle fold drained into the left MEA cycles, accessory MEA cycles and the lower fold drained into the MEA cycles. So this is one of those intercostal veins which are drained into the brachiocephalic left. The left brachiocephalic vein is approximately, this is the extent of the right brachiocephalic, the left brachiocephalic is approximately twice the size, but the formation is at the same, sternocleabicular joint, sternocleabicular joint, clear? I think this pretty much shows you everything and we have already seen this, the osteobeliobliogastric and tibeliobliogastric, submental triangle and everything, this is the cut end of the sternocleamaster, cut end of the sternocleamaster. So everything else is seen. Anything else that you would like to do, this is a suvia cord sealant, other end of the, so this will continue into the arm as the axillary and this is the other cut end, you can see it will continue into the chest.


these types of things happen. It gets frustrating, tend to get upset. Hey there friends, thanks for checking in. Today we're looking at the 80% Arms GST9. I've been having some extraction issues. It gets stuck. The case gets stuck in the chamber. It hasn't been extracting very well, but it's been a couple years now since I've had this out. I was looking forward to having some good range time with it. Now the one thing that I changed is, I put a Hollison 407C on there because it comes with an RMR footprint optic ready. They all do, and I put a Hollison 407C on there, and I've sited it in pretty decent, and I'm excited to get this out, but I don't like those ejection issues. The case gets stuck in the chamber. You already saw it. It happened twice, so I cleaned it up. I took a few shots yesterday and came out today and I'm still having the same issues, and I changed the ammo. That was Blazer Brass 115 grain ball ammo. It has a four inch fluted barrel, a full pick rail, gas pedals on each side, but one of the things I really like is that this grip texturing is nice, but it's not a backstrap. It's actually a module because they offer another module that goes down about a half inch further, and you can fit the Glock 17 round mags. This right here is a 15 round Glock 19 mag, but the 17 round mag, so it would replicate a Glock 45 or a 19x. I like it that it's optic ready. See those scalloped serrations on the top strap of the slide? That's pretty cool too. If you want to charge it off your pant leg or your boot, I don't even know if that'll work. I could do it with my optic, not my favorite choice. Same Glock trigger. Love the gun. Not sure about those ejection issues.  All right, round two. Let's see what happens here. Always important to switch out the ammo before you blame the gun, but now it's happened with both types of ammo, so let's see here. And right there is the issue. I'll drop the mag. Well, I have to lock the slide all the way back. I'll drop the mag and there is a case that's stuck in there, and there it is. That was stuck in the chamber. We'll try it again, and it's happening again. So these types of things happen. It gets frustrating, tend to get upset. I haven't had this gun out in two years, and it performed flawlessly. Now all of a sudden I'm having some extraction and ejection issues. I have to take a deeper look into it above and beyond just the ammo, but let me see what goes on here. We'll start one handed. All right, and that time it rolled through three rounds. I did clean and lube it prior to coming to the range today. Love the features, love the performance, when it's working better. Right now I find myself just a little bit frustrated over what's going on. I'm really not sure. It hasn't been abused at all. Just kind of sat in the safe for a while. The gun charge is fine. It doesn't get caught up in the chamber or anything like that. It just doesn't eject too well. Here we go. And that was fine. Ran through the whole mag.  So I'm going to change my location so he's not shooting behind me.  Very unsafe. And I'm doing that because I already talked to a guy. Very cool guy. So I want to do this and then we're going to load it up and try again. All right, I changed my location. It's just the right thing to do. Anyhow, I have 15 rounds loaded up. I'm going to take five shots just like I was. And then if those go fine, I'm going to mag dump the next 10 to see if this thing is doing any better. Let's see how it goes. I was just getting ready to mag dump and look at what happened. Another round that was not extracted or ejected and it falls out. All right, let's try mag dumping eight or nine rounds and had another issue. So I'm not going to stay out here and just burn ammo because it's not going to work itself out. There's clearly a problem here. And the problem is something that I don't know. Some people would say, well, it's clearly that, but I have to take a deeper look. It was cleaned and oiled and everything else. Get out of there. There it is. Well, I have two rounds maybe. Let's see. We'll go the small target to the left and to the right. Where's my dot? There. That's it. So it's silly just to burn ammo for no specific purpose. The same issue is happening. You're going to have frustrating times at the range. Sometimes you can't hit your target. If you make videos, sometimes you can't talk. Other times you have issues with the gun. Whatever the case, we move forward because we're champions like that. That's what I'm going to do. And I know that's what you will do as well. If you like videos like this, please subscribe and share. I always appreciate thumbs up button. Thanks for watching and you guys be safe.


Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ interview show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. Hi, everybody. I'm here with Joan Sennow-Lester, a writer, scholar, educator, activist of great renown. Welcome, Joan. Oh, thank you for that. I'd like to read your bio if I would, and I'm going to deliver it in the second person. You're an award-winning columnist published in USA Today, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Huffington Post, Cosmopolitan, New York Times, and others. You're the author of six critically praised books, including your just released 2021 memoir, Loving Before Loving, A Marriage in Black and White, and we're here to celebrate the publication of that memoir. Thank you. As a member of a biracial family, your lifelong passion has been understanding race, exploring how the concept ever came to exist, pervading US life until it's so prevalent that this bizarre concept seems normal. All your books center on this immensely charged topic. In your non-writing moments, education and ally activism have shaped your life. True so far? Absolutely, you got it. You have a doctorate in multicultural education from the University of Massachusetts. You co-founded and directed the Equity Institute in 1981 and your partner, I think you want to say wife, is involved in that effort also. This national nonprofit based first in Amherst and then Emeryville, California, pioneered the diversity wave of the 80s and 90s. You continue as a member of its successor, the Equity Consulting Board. Your recognitions include the National Lesbian and Gay Siegenthaler Award for Commentary on National Public Radio, a finalist award from the Penn Bell Water Prize for socially engaged fiction, and the Arts and Letters Creative Nonfiction Finalist Award for Narrative Nonfiction. What an illustrious biography. It sounds so impressive. I love hearing it here. I am just living my daily life trying to pound out my words. It's very nice to hear that.  So let's start with, as you know, this show is all things LGBTQ. So would you mind talking a little about your the biography focus, if I'm not mistaken, on your marriage to Julius Lester, an African-American activist and performer. A celebrated author. Yes. Who had some time in St. John'sbury, Vermont, I read in his biography. But talk, if you wouldn't mind, for a minute about your current relationship of 40 years. How you had to come out at mid-midlife?  No, I'd love to. And actually, the last third of the biography of the memoir, sorry, does get into that. I do talk about how I came out. I had been married twice to men and been in a number of relationships with men, had children with men. So I was a mother. And after my second marriage to a man ended and my heart was broken once again. My poor little heart. I was kind of looking around. I was very strongly involved in the feminist movement of the late 60s and the 1970s, which I also have many chapters about in the book and how crucial that was in my own development as a strong person. And I was kind of looking around and I knew women who were in relationships with women. And I thought, oh, wow, this kind of looks more egalitarian. And that had been really the issue on which my heterosexual marriages had foundered both times, I would say. I was not a compliant wife in the sense that they expected me to be. And yeah, so lots of fighting ensued. Then I read, and the book also talks a memoir a lot about the influence of various, mostly books, but also some articles on me. And I read Adrienne Rich's very now famous essay in the journal Signs that was called something about, I have the book right here, I can look up it's a chapter title, but heterosexuality basically. I got it. I'm closer to heterosexuality and the lesbian existence. Yes, thank you, Anne. So I read that article and it kind of blew me away because she talks in the article about the continuum. And what she says in the article is that using Kinsey's research, which at that time was not so outdated because she wrote this in about 1980, maybe the late 70s or 1980, which is when I read it in that first in the issue in which it was in the women's bookstore in Northampton Womanfire, which I crept into and slunk over to the lesbian section, got a couple of books and journals put them face down on the counter, paid as fast as possible and ran at the bookstore. So I got home read the article, she talks about Kinsey's research in which he demonstrated that 5% of people he posited were exclusively heterosexual by sort of inclination innately 5% of people were exclusively homosexual and 90% 90% were on a continuum somewhere leaning one way or the other. And I felt when I read that that I was smack in the middle.  So I announced it to all my friends and family before I had a lover because I just had it with men. I had just had it. I was at that time in my late 30s. I was just about to get a doctorate. You know, I felt like I was on my way and I was not going to mess up my life anymore for me and my children. And so that was it with men. Too difficult. So a friend of mine, I told that I was coming out that I was going to be a lesbian and she said, Joan, but I thought you liked sex with man. And I said, I did. It wasn't the sex. I didn't like it was the sexism.  So and I had seen actually my friend Maxine Wolf, whom you had on this show twice recently was a very, very close, one of my very best friends. And she had just after two heterosexual marriages like me, she had just started a relationship, a sexual relationship with a woman, her first one. And she was calling me up. She lived in Brooklyn. I lived it by that point in Amherst, getting my doctorate. And she called me up. She said, Joan, it's amazing. Without sexism in the relationship, it's so different. You really can have an you're not fighting that particular battle. You're still two people and, you know, you have your issues, but that huge battle is removed. And she was just I was like, oh, this is interesting. So I really didn't know how to quote meet lesbians. So I had heard there might be lesbians on the softball team in Amherst. That was so naive. And my son, who was then about 10 or 11 12. And he and I started, I didn't tell him why I was going to join the softball team in Amherst, but he practiced me all spring. He said, my, you've got a good arm, my, you could do this. And he even he was so sweet, he went and he umped some of the games for the women. So there was a whole league, which of course was all lesbians, but I had no clue.  And I was thinking, Oh, the picture, she's kind of cute. Maybe she's a lesbian. Well, yeah, she was maybe the first base woman is like, well, it took me the whole summer to realize that everybody on the team, except me. What's the lesbian? Well, as it happened, we played another team. I was doing anti racism work at that point. And had actually, I guess just gotten my doctorate and had made a brochure. Joan Steina Lester anti racism workshops. And this other woman, Carol Johnson, also did anti racism work at that time for the federal government, which actually still did do that things like that before Reagan was just taking over. Anyway, she'd heard about me. She was on another team and one night our two teams were at a local watering hall and she came over to me and she said, are you Joan Lester? I said, yes, she said, I've heard you do anti racism work. She was a white woman also. And she was doing it and she said, oh, I could help you get some gigs and I have contacts and come over to my house will go through my Rolodex. And it turned out that she lived in a house with four other lesbians and she was a lesbian. Oh, this is so interesting when I went over there because, you know, I didn't even know until that point that there was a lesbian culture. You know, I had no clue. I think it's a lot like what a lot of white people don't really realize that there's a whole black culture.  There's all this vibrant, incredible culture going on. So I didn't realize and all these women were younger than I was. I was then 40. And most of women were in their 20s or early 30s and nobody at that point had kids. So I felt very different as a mother. Anyway, Carol Johnson was quite wonderful and took a long time for us to kiss because I was waiting. She was the lesbian when she kissed me first. But she was like kind of what do you call it's a word like she thought I might be a little sketchy as a partner because I was a straight woman. So she was holding back. In any case, we finally did kiss and made out.  Look what men have been getting all these years. I was, I've always been so much about fairness. I was like, this is so unfair. What men have been getting from my body all these years, these soft breasts. And oh, anyway, here we are 40 years later. And she is just the most remarkable woman, totally politically active, totally kind, totally loving, a great, she's not really a stepmom to my kids who are now in their mid 50s, but a wonderful friend to them and a wonderful grandmother to our three grandchildren who regard her as equally as much a grandmother because she's been there their whole lives. So what a wonderful story of how I came out. Well, you know, my partner and I had a Boston romance, and we went to woman firebook store in Northampton. And it was the same kind of thing. All of her friends were lesbian mothers. And none of my, all my friends were single and nobody had. So it was two worlds coming together. It was two worlds. Yes, yes, it really was. And it, yeah. So we've melded those worlds.  And it's just been wonderful here with Oakland and Berkeley and San Francisco, the Bay Area. Well, let's turn to the memoir. Okay. How did you happen to write a memoir? And why this memoir at this time? My mom died. Did you want to say something else? I want to say I can't wait to read it. Oh, you're fine. Thank you. I'm getting really great feedback. I mean, it's just been very exciting. This is my sixth book. And they've all gotten good critical reception. But this is the first one that now we're, I don't know, eight months out from it being published or something. I still get emails and Facebook messages and other messages, you know, several a week anyway of people just saying they're so excited about it. So why this memoir? My mom died. And I was pretty devastated. She was my second parent to die. And she died as an old person, like 94. And I was already whatever I was, I was 74. Could that be right? Yes. She was only 20 years older than me. So I wasn't sure what I was going to do. It kind of rocked my world, the second parent dying, more than you would think at my advanced stage. You know, I'd be kind of used to the idea of no parents, but the reality of it was kind of strange. And I long thought of writing a memoir. This is because I feel like I've had some unusual experiences, especially in terms of being married to two African American men. And the title, Loving Before Loving, A Marriage in Black and White, in this one, of course, refers to the 1968 Loving Decision, or was it 67? My mind today is kind of flipping a little. Yeah, the Loving Decision legalizing nationally, Supreme Court decision legalizing interracial marriage. But I married in 62 to Julius Lester, who was a writer, although as yet unpublished when I married him, but became rather eminent, very award winning and so on. So I knew that that was an unusual experience. And also I'm just a writer.  But I hadn't written a memoir, but I'd written a biography of a close friend, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton, who's also a heavy presence in my book because she was a friend from college from DC. Excuse me, you went to Antioch. I did to Antioch and so did Eleanor. And we met there and became close friends. And I'm a writer. So but I mentioned about my parents, my mother dying because even though I had very loving parents who I think nothing in this book, I didn't write anything that I couldn't have written with them alive. But there it was a kind of freedom with nobody in that older generation.  And you see here my I'm in my writing cottage, I have my writing gloves. Um, I don't I think there was some trigger about that. I actually gave up a book that I had a book contract for a novel that was a second in a series. The first novel was black, white, other my first and only young adult novel. And I'd gotten a good contract and I had a good draft of it. And I just was kind of disinterested and all of a sudden I I don't know the turning of the generations, maybe it's that like a mother passing and my kids were grown and the grandkids were growing up. It just seemed like the time to write about my life. And then with Black Lives Matter, bursting onto the scene, certainly not without a lot of antecedents. But there was a heightened interest, I thought, in race and in allyship. And I do have something to say about being an ally. And I have a blog on my website, JoanLester.com. And one of my more recent blogs within the last year is about being an ally. And I always thought that one of the key things was knowing a lot about the population you're trying to ally to or if that's how you pronounce the verb ally. So I informed myself, but I had never really realized until Black Lives Matter has caused so much more even introspection, how much it was so important for me to examine internally white supremacy. I've been very happy to examine it in other people and institutions, which I've done a lot of in the last 50 years. But I started to realize more in myself. Well, the analogy is to male supremacist attitudes, but white supremacist attitudes. And I was for many, many years a member of a women's choir in Oakland that was all African American except for myself. And many good friends in the group over the years that I saw outside of choir as well as in the choir. Anyway, one day I heard myself when we were, the choir director told us to move all our chairs.  And I turned to a friend who happened to be Ellis Walker, who was in the choir. And I said, oh, white people are always used to being in charge, aren't we? And she kind of gave me a withering look and said, yes. And that was such a moment for me. So I wrote a blog about that. So I don't know, allies, being allies, I mean, I think we need to know something about the population we're trying to be helpful to so that we could see what might be needed. And something about the culture. So we're just not clumping in completely unawarely, but we also need to be looking at our own stuff. Well, your writer, do you have a writing schedule? Ah, I do. Informally, it's not like to the hour, but I get up in the mornings and I do a little, little 15 minutes of domino exercises, have my breakfast, go for a hike in nearby woods. And then I come home and I write in the morning and then have lunch. And if I have the oomph for it, I continue after lunch. Sometimes I just read or take a nap then or do, you know, they're always a million.  Who are your administrative tasks? What's that? They're always a lot of administrative tasks. Oh, yes. Who are your literary influences? I think one of my main ones is Zora Neale Hurston. And I read their eyes or watching God, her eyes are watching God. I've read that so many times because she just, she stimulates me to these unlikely metaphors.  I've read all of her books, I think, and many of them repeatedly. She's just a huge influence on me. And she was the first author that I started reading as a writer.  And, you know, this is exciting and started to really appreciate her writing. What are your future projects? You said you have an uncompleted manuscript that you're revising. Actually, yeah, it turns out to be a children's picture book, which I woke up a few weeks ago with in my mind and I never thought I'd be writing a children's picture book, but and I submitted it and just got yesterday some rather, I submitted it to a publisher where the publisher is a friend of mine, and I got some rather harsh feedback yesterday. It's like, and I did exactly what I, when I occasionally still coach, I used to do freelance editing a lot and occasionally still do it. And I'm always advising other writers, stick to one theme, stick to one theme. But in this picture book, I had three themes, evidently. And she says, yeah, so I, that was completely, you know, she said, my friend said to me, you make, it's very harshly, you, and she's a good friend, you made them mistake every debut picture book author made with having all these things. Everybody thinks it's so easy to write a picture book. It's not, it's not just something you can throw off. You know, you have to do the research and you have to see what are the competing books and you know, all this. So I'm like, okay. So it was kind of disheartened last night, but I woke up in the middle of the night and spent three hours, a little night in my mind, completely rewriting it. There's your writing schedule. Yeah, that's part of it, unfortunately. But that good editors are invaluable, aren't they? Aren't they? Yes. I've been in so many writing groups where everybody just praises and that doesn't help, you know. Yeah, a good editor is wonderful. I've had a number in my life. Some op-ed editors from newspapers, when I used to publish more op-eds, were wonderful teachers and editors. And I've had a few good friends. And this person who just gave me the harsh feedback is actually a writing partner. And we give each other feedback. I can't wait for her to submit something rotten to me, but she doesn't usually. She's, she's such a good writer. Well, in the minute we have left, what are your, what is your final message to our audience and talk more? I'd love to. Thank you, Anne, so much. This is, you're such a delightful interviewer. Last message is be of good cheer, people.  Sometimes it feels like we aren't in terms of gender, race, ethnicity, class, LGBTQ, right, you know, but we are, we have moved, we are moving along and COVID is supposed to peak soon. And actually, maybe the spring will be better. So be of good cheer. Well, that makes, it's perfect sense. Joan Lister, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Anne. Everybody, I'd like to invite Michael Wilson to our show. He's going to tell us about a very exciting ski party and rendezvous in Stovermont, that all you LGBTQ people should get out and do. So hi, hi, Michael. How are you doing? Good, Anne. How are you? I'm good. And you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you get involved in this very exciting project? Well, I, I do adventure travel. I have a travel company and JW adventures. And I do a lot of scuba diving and wine tasting and smaller groups. And this particular event has been going on for 39 years. I've been producing it for about 13 years. And originally, it was just a social club called PIKU, an organization outdoor, getting lesbian outdoor association. And that was about 39 years ago. And over the years, it's just grown into this amazing thing. About 13 years ago, the guy who was organizing it just basically said it's too much.  And so it kind of fit right into my wheelhouse that I've already been doing the adventure travel for many years. And so we just went from there. And it's just a great event. It tracks around 300 to 400 people up the stove every year. And it's always the Wednesday after Martin Luther King. So it's five days of wintery bliss. And it kicks off every day. It's like a circus. There's so much going on. Wednesday. And we do a big event at the local bowling alley, which is a beautiful boutique bowling alley. We take it over. Everyone comes in and we set it up so that you have to change lanes every 20 minutes. So like for the serious bowler, they get really offended. But anyway, I didn't finish that frame. You're missing the point, you know. And it's a blast. So it's a great mixer. That starts off on Wednesday.  The mountain is really generous with Bell Resorts, the Stomach Resort. They give a discount from the lift tickets. And then Thursday, and see this year, we have, we're going to do an open bar, bonfire VIP cocktail hour at the host hotel, which is the top notch resort. And all of our sponsors are very gracious to donate product. And this is a fun event. And that's followed by Sean Palowski, comedian, who's coming in from LA and she'll perform at the town hall. Then on Friday, again, they ski in London while that's during the day. And we have this huge indoor pool party at the Trap Family Lodge. And that's just amazing facility. Oh, have you been at the pool? It's insane. Yeah. So we are just very privileged to use that facility. The trap is just amazing, just amazing to the whole event. So we bring a DJ in, we set up a bar and we go for about three and a half hours and it's the highlight of the event.  So then we give them a break. There isn't actually an unofficial event at one of the local clubs. Wild Elfies brings in a DJ. A lot of the people go there. But I go to sleep that night. And on Saturday, we have Drag Bingo in the afternoon at Elfies Wild Ride again. Then we have Dina Martina coming in. And Dina is hilarious performance drag queen artist. A lot of people know her from Provincetown. He's there or she's there every summer for like 20 years. She performs at Town Hall and then it follows up with this big blowout dance party Saturday night. So there's a lot of seven, eight events that take place over the course of the five days. And what we do is most of the guys just buy a bracelet, a party pass we call it. They get their bracelet and they're good to go for all the events throughout the course of the week. And yeah, I just hope everyone will join us. It's a lot of fun. Oh, and as far as COVID goes, you know, we have COVID this year. Last year, we weren't able to have it. So we are requiring Vax cards for each of the events.  That's a little more, as you know, a lot of towns doing it, not New York's been doing it, Boston is doing it. It's becoming commonplace, unfortunately. But you know, we just decided that we want to caution on the side of air and just really create a safe environment to the extent that we can for everybody. So so far, the feedback has been pretty good. But that's how it's going to be this year. And hopefully next year we'll be done with this mess. One can hold, huh? Yeah. But we do have a clip I sent you that maybe we can show everybody. I'm going to show that clip at the end of our interview. So so people must come from all over New England and otherwise to be able to come to this event. Yeah, we attract people from literally all over. But primarily it's the East Coast. We market in about seven or eight major markets starting in Montreal, down to New York, Florida, DC, Philadelphia, New York, obviously, New Jersey. What we find is for a skier, usually we don't attract people beyond Chicago because they go West to ski. But we've had people from other countries that's really, I mean, the diversity of the group is amazing. And it's partly because it has been going on for so many years. But I gotta tell you, there's people from 21 to 71.  It'll be a certain genre, whether it be the Bears or the Twinks or whatever it may be. This is just a broad canvas. And the way the people mix is just amazing. There's people that have been going to all of them, all these years. So it's just a really, really fun group. And the LeMage are going to be there, aren't they? They're from one. It couldn't be went around without the LeMage. I know. You know the LeMage? I do. Oh, yeah, well, they're great. Lucy, Val, and Amber will be there and they help out a lot. They host a lot of the parties. They'll be at the opening party for the bowling alley. They will host the drag queen bingo on Saturday. And that's a fundraiser for Harvard to the Bay, which is the AIDS bike ride here in Boston. So 100% of the proceeds go to that. And yeah, they're a blast. They're there every year and people just love them. And they do so much for even our local community by when they do things, they donate so much of the money to different organizations. It's really, they're really. They're amazing. I'm so lucky and happy to have them. And every year, every year, it's a sometimes I take them for granted. And I know I shouldn't. But yeah, they're just great. Both of them are just amazing. And tell us what days these are now and how would people register? I know we're going to show the video, but maybe we'll can put up some information on the screen about, you know, how people will register for this. And can they just go to Stowe and sign up or do they have to register ahead of time? Well, it's best that they go to the website, winterondievue.com. And they can, they have choices. They can buy a party pass, a full party pass. The event starts on Wednesday. The event starts on Wednesday, January 19th. There's something on my screen. I don't know if you can see it, but anyway, and it runs through Sunday. So the party pass, it will, it starts on, it includes everything from the opening night to the closing party. We also sell a weekend pass. Because there's a lot of people thinking of Boston guys that will come up for the weekend. And the weekend pass is get you to start with the full party on Friday. That's the first event. So it does the full party, it does the drag and go, it does Dean Martina and the blowout party. That's $140 in advance online. The full pass is $225. And then they can also buy in advance tickets at a cart on the website. So say they just want to go to maybe a dance or one of the shows, something like that. So we try to accommodate everybody. People might live locally. You just want to go to one or two events. Yeah, we do encourage them to buy the tickets in advance because we do have limits. So for the most part, we're pretty good. I mean, sometimes we have to turn people away from the shows because we can only see 225 people at the feeder. Outside of that, we're pretty good. But yeah, we encourage people to go to the website, decide what they want to do. And a lot of times what we'll do is look for me and say they'll buy a party pass for the weekend.  So no problem. We upgrade them. And we have great staff to take care of them at the door. So really, whatever works for them is what we try to do. But we encourage everyone to go online. And do accommodations too, or do people kind of do that on their own? Well, we have the Host Hotel, which is the top notch resort, which is a wonderful resort right close to the mountain. I think we're down to about a couple of rooms there. But we also work with other hotels as well. The Stowe Motel, the Snowdrift, is a much more affordable kind of different tier. And it's Motel Stowe, but the guys love it. They stay there. What I've found over the years, though, is that people kind of spread out all over the mountain, you know, that we groups get Airbnb's and they'll have their favorite place. Once upon a time, we were all just one nucleus at one hotel. But that's kind of unfortunate. We've lost that over the years. So they're everywhere. And the events are spread out everywhere as well. But the top notch is the place to be. It has a beautiful spa. It has a lot of social areas. It has a bar. So I imagine even some of the people are not staying there. Well, kind of congregate there in the evenings and late nights and whatnot. Yeah, I imagine some people probably stay at the Trap Lodge too up there. Oh, yeah. The Trap Lodge. Yes, they stay there. It's a beautiful place. Yes, it really is. So is there anything before we show your fabulous clip that you'd like our audience to know before the event? Just come and be happy and get vaccinated. Yeah. And be happy. Okay. And if you can't make it this year, there's always next year. But yeah, because everyone's welcome. All right.  I hope you do. Well, I'll come and look for you. Just ask for me. Maybe we can do interviews up there. We'll bring our camber and that would be wonderful. Absolutely. And just talk to people and, you know, have them tell us what's going on. It's a great group. It's really a fun weekend. And yeah, we're just so happy that we can do it this year. And we're going to be safe as we can. And then hopefully next year, we'll be back to normal. Alrighty. Well, thank you, Michael, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. And we'll get the word out. It will be going out very shortly. And thank you again for coming. That's all okay. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. She was the first LGBTQ person elected to the Vermont State Senate. She was the first woman and LGBTQ plus President Pro Tem of the Vermont Senate. That apparently is not quite enough because she would also like to be Vermont's first woman and LGBTQ member of the US House of Representatives. Please welcome back Becca Ballant. Hi. Good morning. Hello, Keith. So nice to see you. And I just want to say, although I was the first woman LGBTQ member of the Senate, we actually had two, we had Ed Flanagan who came in before me representing Chittenden County. And then I came in with Brian Campion, a member of the community from Bennington. But it is true, the first openly gay woman in the Senate. And I'm very excited that I announced my candidacy for Congress two weeks ago. And the campaign is going incredibly well. I am just thrilled with the response that we've gotten across the state. I couldn't be happier right now. I feel like people are ready for the kind of leadership that I'm offering. So you led me right into my first question. But first, a brief disclaimer that all things LGBTQ has been an endorser of your campaign. So with that said, Becca Ballant, what makes you the best candidate and the best person for Vermont to send to the US House of Representatives at this point in time? Well, it's such an important question. I just want to say the voters get to decide, right? I'm going to make my case. I'm going to run on my strong record and what I see as a vision for leadership, but the voters get to decide. So I look forward to making the case. But why I'm running is because we are facing enormous challenges, not just in Vermont, but in this country. And I know you're well, you're well versed in them, but I just want to just really highlight working families are really struggling. We are still in the midst of this pandemic, you know, we're coming on two years still raging on. We have real climate action that can't wait. And, you know, basically at the core of why I'm running is that our democracy itself is at risk. And the future to me feels very perilous. And I know from my work in the Senate and my work in my community that we can't tackle these enormous challenges if we continue to remain so deeply divided. We have really deep, sometimes dangerous divisions in our country in our state, but even in our communities and in our own families. And I just want people to know that despite the darkness that we all are feeling, I know that we can get to a better place because I've seen it in my own life. But I feel like this is a time when people have to show up with some courage, some political courage. We can't be afraid of the tough fights that we have to have on policy considerations. But that doesn't mean turning away from each other. It doesn't mean demonizing each other, dehumanizing each other. And those of us in the LGBTQ, you know, community, we know this. We know this deeply. We have been demonized. We have been dehumanized. And so I feel like I bring that perspective to these really stark differences and challenges to say we cannot just dismiss each other because of difference.  And we need to show up for each other. And that's what I've been doing really my whole life as an educator, as a community member, as a senator, showing up for other people. And I want to bring that to Vermont. I want to bring that spirit of Vermont with me to Washington DC. And I'm really excited to be another progressive champion in Washington for all of these things that we care about. Climate action, paid family medical leave insurance, really thinking about decoupling insurance from our jobs. This isn't working. It's not working at all. We know this, right? And the pandemic showed it writ large. It is time for us to commit to doing things differently. And I know that this is a really tough agenda, but I am so fired up and ready to go, Keith. I am so fired up and ready to go. So don't you've just knocked off my next three questions of these priorities and the current political climate and, you know, how we move forward. Looking at national politics, we have never been so polarized in our political history. Is it possible for us to move back towards the center again? And if so, what is it going to take for that to happen? Yeah. And so I will answer that thing. It has to be possible or we're doomed. That's the moment where we're at right now, Keith. Like, I have no illusions. It has to be possible or this whole experiment in democracy is lost. And so for me, all of us need to get really clear on how we want to show up in the world. And so how we lead, and I don't mean just as politicians, how we lead in our communities is who we are, right? It's not different, right? What you see is what you will get in an elected official, right? So my leadership is, and we talk about this in my video that we released on our launch day. So the campaign kickoff. So my leadership is really grounded in my family history and my grandfather's murder in the Holocaust. And my parents really taught me that people can be horribly cruel to each other if you don't tend to being courageous and kind with your native. If we don't listen to each other, if we turn away from each other, that innocent people get hurt in that scenario. And so that is definitely the way I've lived my life as an out queer woman in this state too. It's not always easy when you have neighbors who are homophobic. It's not always easy if you have colleagues who really don't understand where you're coming from. But you have to keep showing up, right? If it's safe to do so. And I just want to make a caveat here that I know, especially for Black trans women in this country right now, like showing up is a different level of dangerous. So I just want to say that up front. Those of us who can show up and have those conversations and represent each other bravely and courageously need to do so because other people may not have the ability to do that, the safety to do that. And so, you know, I've always known since I was 11 that I was gay and that I was different and that the world didn't really appreciate difference, right? Bringing that with me into the work that I do makes me a deeply compassionate person. It makes me a believer that change is possible because, you know, 10 years ago, I wouldn't have imagined that we would be here in this moment where we have legalized marriage across the country, that we have the young people teaching us the way about gender identity and pronouns. You know, my kids, I've got a kid who's 11, another 14, they teach me every day how to be a more complete person in the world. So I actually, despite the darkness, I am feeling so hopeful in this moment because people want something different and that's what I've heard from the video that we released. So many people reaching out to me, people I know, but also strangers saying I'm craving some hope and some positivity and not Pollyanna, not naivete, but a belief of that dogged we show up for each other in Vermont. That's what we do. We have to keep doing that. So a lot of your campaign is going to be based upon the change that you have already started here in Vermont. Could you talk a little bit about some of those initiatives that you have put forward that's changing how Vermont governs itself and how we reach out to our neighbors? It's such a great framing for the work that I've done with my colleagues. So for those of you who are watching who may not be as familiar with my career, so I'm heading into my eighth year in the Senate. Thank you. My sixth year in Senate leadership, I was a majority leader before I was pro tem. We have done incredible work together on huge investments in housing, really making huge investments in housing. Millions and millions of dollars. We know it's not enough, but we know that you can't help people and families and communities if at a basic level people don't have safe, affordable housing. And so I made a huge investment, over $135 million in during Phil Scott's first term. We've been building on it every year trying to get more rental and housing units online. We're going to make another huge investment with the American Rescue Plan dollars. When I first came in, we didn't have paid sick leave available for people across Vermont. We now have paid sick leave. We made investments in in childcare. We've realized and when we say we, I mean, we as a state, because many of us have realized it for a long time that the workforce can't work without childcare. It just can't and we see it now with this pandemic as well. So continuing to make those investments in in childcare.  They were like, you're either for a carbon tax or you're against a carbon tax, right? We're at a different moment right now with every year that goes by and the winters get weirder and the weather gets wilder. People realize, oh, wait, it's not in the future, right? The climate change is here. So we are going to be making millions of dollars investment in weatherization for, you know, all Vermonters to make sure they are not just reducing their carbon footprint, but have warm toasty and cool houses, you know, warm in the winter, cool in the summer. And also looking at our, our electric electric, that's such a hard word, we're going to electrify more things so that we're moving away from fossil fuels. And again, that was a huge fight early on, but now there seems to be a collective acceptance that this is going to take huge, you know, investments and that we have luckily the legislature and the executive branch largely in similar places on these issues. So again, feeling very hopeful about that. So you're about to start this major campaign. You're also the president pro tem of the Senate. You have some very large issues coming up. You've mentioned housing. There's the pension that needs to be dealt with for state employees and educators, you know, there, you know, childcare is again going to come up proposition five. How are you going to balance those, those two realities in your life while not forgetting you have a family and constituents? Absolutely. Absolutely. So one thing I always want to remind folks of is pretty much every single male politician that has been through the state of Vermont has run statewide while also having another really important job. So, you know, from, from speaker of the house to the attorney general to the president pro tem. And so I would not be the first person to undertake this really daunting task while also having a very important and consequential position. That being said, the pro tem, much like the speaker of the house, we're really sort of like the team captain of a team that functions largely in these smaller pods, right? So you've got people who are experienced, who have so much wisdom, who have so much experience doing this really hard work. And you're really the person who is enabling people to do their best work.  Yes, it is. But here's what I learned this morning already. Two weeks into this campaign, I already have a thousand donors, over 1000 donors. And so that means I've got people across the state who want to help me who want it's a team effort to get to DC. This is not about me doing it alone. And so the campaign is going to have to, you know, be doing some of the work behind the scenes without me there when I'm, you know, deep in the work, the important work in the Senate. And, you know, the session is from January to May, maybe the speaker and I can get everybody out by the end of April. And then, you know, we'll be diving into the primary. But I don't have any, you know, false sense that this will be an easy task. But I do know I have an incredible group of people both in the state house and outside of the state house that is going to help me do this. And we are not going to take our eye off the ball. As you said, we have so many important issues that we're dealing with. But we've also made really good progress on these. And feeling really hopeful that we're going to come to a very positive resolution about the pensions, continuing those conversations, those really wholehearted conversations with the state employees and the teachers union, we're going to continue to work together to get to an agreement that we all can, you know, that we all can sign off on. And if we can't get to that place of everyone feeling like it's a fair package, then we're not going to solve that problem this year. We're not going to ram something through that the state employees and the teachers are not coming together with us on. So we've already made that decision. The speaker and I are very clear on that. And because schools are really struggling right now. I mean, we don't have a whole other hour to talk about what schools are dealing with. But I just want to thank while I've got people, anyone in the community who's working in schools, anyone who's working in our healthcare facilities, this past two years have been absolutely brutal. And we need to be thanking those workers every single day. And so I'm going to keep my eye on those issues for that reason. So important to me. And with that, I need to say thank you because and as always happens with you and I just get going. And so we're going to put up the contact information so that people know how they could become actively involved in your campaign. And also, if they have questions or want to provide information regarding a legislative issue, they can do that as well. And I look forward to our next interview when you are the official candidates running for. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Keith. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.