We've got a remarkable panel lined up for tonight and we're so glad that you've joined us for a conversation about Russia, a very timely conversation. I'd like to thank Bob Schieffer and the Bob Schieffer College of Communication at TCU for their great partnership in bringing these dialogues to CSIS. Let's have a hand for TCU. None of this would be possible without the generosity and support of the Stavros Niarchos Foundation. I was in New York with them yesterday and they're just such wonderful and generous supporters of us, of ours, and we're so appreciative of them for everything they do for us. I also want to give a special welcome to the distinguished participants of the second annual Williamsburg CSIS Forum, which concludes here with two public panels tomorrow morning. They've spent the last three days in Williamsburg, Colonial Williamsburg, of course, in discussing the future of the European Union, the latest events in Ukraine. One of our participants tonight, Roger Cohen, is here on the stage with us, has been participating in that Williamsburg conference. We've been working Roger pretty hard, but we really thank him for all his help. In addition, I want to the trustees who are here on our stage, I'd also like to welcome another one of our bosses, Ms. Carla Hills and her husband, Mr. Rod Hills, who are here. I'd also like to welcome Judge Webster, who's here as well. Thank you for being here. Now without further ado, please join me in welcoming Bob Schieffer, who has a little show called Face the Nation, which is number one on Sundays. Bob. Thank you. Well, Andrew told me that they had to cut off invitations at 600 for this. This is far and away the largest group we have ever had. So thank you all, and I know why you're here. This is one of the best and one of the best panels we've ever gotten in here at the same time and the same place. So thank you all for coming. And just to get it going, we're going to talk about Russia, obviously, with two men. I'm proud to say, or not just longtime friends, but at various times over the 45 years that I've been in Washington, they have been very good sources for me, sometimes. Sometimes on the record, sometimes maybe not. Dr. Brzezinski and General Scowcroft, also with us, someone I admire greatly in joining us, columnist and author, I greatly admire Roger Cohen of the New York Times. This audience is certainly going to need no introduction to any of them, but in case there is a visitor here from Mars, let me say Dr. Brzezinski is a former U.S. National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter, Counselor and Trustee here at CSIS. Senior Research Professor at SICE at Johns Hopkins. He served in the State Department, many other prestigious foreign policy positions. General Scowcroft, also former National Security Advisor. He served with President Ford and George H.W. Bush. He, too, is a Counselor and Trustee here at CSIS. He was a military assistant to Richard Nixon. He was Deputy Assistant to National Security Affairs during the Ford and Nixon administrations, and that was with Henry Kissinger, right? Yep, and holds the Medal of Freedom in 1993. Queen Elizabeth made him an honorary knight at the British Empire, and Roger Cohen has been a foreign correspondent for more than a decade at the New York Times and was foreign editor for the Times, now writes a column for the Times. He's the author of several books on foreign policy and also a biography of General Norman Schwarzkopf. So it's hard to know where to start this discussion, but I guess let me just start with this question. Is this the new Cold War, and why don't we just start with you, Dr. Brzezinski, down at your end of the table? Well, obviously we don't know for sure, but it's beginning to look that way. It may not end up that way, but it's beginning to look that way. And in fact, if I can just take two minutes, I would like to do something which probably most of the people here haven't done, namely cite some excerpts from Putin's speech, because it's worth reading the speech in full. And what is worrisome, and that's relevant to your question, is what he says about Ukraine more generally. And in that speech, he says, among other things, that Ukraine, and let me get my clippings here, he says that Ukraine benefited from the Bolshevik Revolution by obtaining large sections of the historical south of Russia. So he, in effect, posits the theme that Ukraine's territory is not valid. Then he goes on to say that when President Kuchma of Ukraine asked that the borders be delimited, Russia agreed to it as a favor on the assumption that Ukraine would remain our good neighbor. However, this is not how the situation developed. He also goes on to say in the same speech, it is also obvious that there is no legitimate executive authority in Ukraine now, nobody. That's a rather strange thing to be saying about a neighboring country. He assures us in the speech that Russian armed forces never entered Crimea, which is kind of curious because we have the impression that somebody did. And then he goes on to say that we understand that our Western partners prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies but by the rule of the gun. And we understand that what is happening is that these actions are aimed against Ukraine and Russia and against Eurasian integration. And he also adds, let me conclude that we have already heard declarations from Kiev about Ukraine soon joining NATO. Let me say quite frankly that it pains our hearts to see what is happening in Ukraine at the moment, see the people suffering and their uncertainty about how to get through the day and what awaits them tomorrow. Our concerns are understandable because we are not simply close neighbors, but as I have said many times, we are one people. Now, what does that tell you? It suggests that if things don't get under control fairly soon, we may be seeing the next phase, which is an attempt, in a sense, to create a one state for one people. In other words, he would absorb... Yeah, I think this is a speech which deals allegedly with Crimea but lays out a claim that can be asserted if things unfold in a way which provide opportunities. And of course that pertains particularly to the territorial edges of Ukraine, but in effect also the Kiev itself. So, General Skolcroft, back to the top question, is this the beginning of a resumption of the Cold War and did you have the same interpretation of Putin's speech as Dr. Dyshensky did? Well... Excuse me, mine is not an interpretation. I read excerpts from it. You just read excerpts. I think this is not a return to the Cold War. I think it's a different character. We have had a scratchy relationship with Russia since the Cold War ended, and I think it will continue. But the Cold War, I think, was pretty sweet-generous. And it evolved philosophies about the world and struggle for men's minds. This is not that kind of thing. This is much more practical. I think what's big red was very interesting because, you know, if there's anything that makes confused reading, it's the history of Ukraine and Russia. The first state of Russia called Rus' at its capital in Kiev in the 10th century, and they were driven up into the forests by the Mongols from Asia who didn't like trees and didn't go after them. So, since then, there's been a different relationship with Ukraine than almost any other part of Russia and or the Soviet Union. So I would say this is new. I think some of the things that Big has read are... I learned a lot about Putin from what he said the last few days in this sense that Putin is a different person, a very different person from Gorbachev or even from Khrushchev. And he has the outlook of someone who was KGB and who saw the Soviet Union collapse. And he's a person full of venom because he thought that that collapse was taken advantage of by the West or especially by the United States to humiliate Russia or to take advantage of Russia. As a matter of fact, he says when we were flat on our backs at the end of the Cold War, you walked all over us because you could. You denounced the ABM Treaty. You pushed the borders of NATO right up and into the former Soviet Union because you could. Now, we're strong again and you can't push us around anymore. And so there's that that goes through it all. But I think to say that this is a new Cold War is we can make it one. But I don't think it's going in that direction. Roger. Well, I agree with General Skokrov that clearly in this instance you don't have the ideological conflict that you had during the Cold War. On the other hand, I think that we should have taken President Putin a lot more seriously when he described the breakup of the Soviet Union as the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. That is a pretty memorable phrase because it was so extraordinary, unbelievable. I think many of us tended to laugh it away. But I think what we're seeing now is that President Putin is absolutely serious about recreating the Soviet space and looking at it from the perspective of what's just happened in Crimea. I think we can view the events in Georgia in 2008 as a kind of precursor, a trial run, if you like. Let's see if the West reacts. If I recognize Abkhazia and South Asetia as independent states. In that case, he did not annex. And we huffed a beard and then we went back to reset and then there were the Medvedev years when it looked like we might be able to treat Russia as a normal country. And there's been this idea, this dream of a European space or a Eurasian space stretching from Lisbon to Vladivostok where we could build free and liberal societies on a Western model. But this man, this President Putin, he does not want that. He is bent on something else. He is bent on proposing an alternative civilization, if you like, to the West. And I think today, Bob, we have a highly combustible situation. I agree that this could be just the first move in Ukraine, but much more dangerous is the fact that there are Russian speakers in plenty of other states surrounding Russia, notably Estonia and Latvia. And if anything begins to stir there, we're into territory where, of course, Article 5 applies. An attack on any NATO member will be considered an attack on all. So we're definitely into new territory. I don't think we're into a new Cold War, but we're into new territory where we have to recognize that in Moscow right now we have an adversary. We do not have a potential partner. Dr. Brzezinski, what could or should we do now? I think we have to be concerned about what follows what has happened. And Putin in this speech has laid out a case that could be used for a certain force directly against Ukraine and seeing how it reacts. Might it disintegrate? Might parts of Ukraine secede? And then what happens? Suppose violence breaks out. What choices do we have? How can we react? And I think we ought to try to anticipate that possibility and certainly to consider it seriously. And one way to anticipate it is to still try to somehow or other convey to Putin that it is not our intent to seduce Ukraine, to draw it into NATO, to turn it into a state that is openly or virtually hostile to Russia and to work together in consolidating the recovery of Ukraine economically and otherwise because Russia also has an interest in that. And so do we. And say to them, we'll do it jointly. And of course Ukraine has a right to be European in spirit but it's not going to be a member of the EU for years and years and we can reassure you that it will not be a member of NATO. But at the same time, and we have to convey to the Russians our concern that those words spoken by Putin about Ukraine are terribly reminiscent of what Hitler was saying about Austria before the Anschluss which was then followed by the Sudetenland and then we know the rest of the history. And that could be then very serious in Europe. Either we are passive in the face of a calamitous explosion or maybe the Ukrainians will fall apart and simply there will be a repetition of what happened in Crimea. So we also have to talk to the Ukrainians about their response and what steps they are taking to make sure that the state remains viable and be willing to assist them if they're determined. So in a sense, an accommodation if possible, deterrence of a conflict if necessary. But I would not treat this lightly. I think there is a spirit in Putin's speech which is vengeful and triumphalist at the same time and committed, as Mr. Komin just said, to this notion of a new union which actually is just a new name for a very old entity, an empire with a capital in Moscow. And that I think is unreal in terms of the modern age. This is why Nazarbayev, for example, a good friend of the Russians, a former first secretary of the Communist Party in Kazakhstan, now president of Kazakhstan, is issuing warnings about the possibility of a threat to the independence of states in the region. And so are some of the others, Karimov or Uzbekistan, openly so and so forth. I think these are possible, very serious dangers to stability in Europe with consequences which could be either very defeatist or explosive, I can't predict that, but certainly collectively dangerous. Dr. Skokrov, do you think the sanctions that the United States announced, have they had any impact? I think we've done about the minimum we needed to do and I think we see what happens now. I agree with much of what Uzbek has just said. I misjudged Putin, as I say, he was filled with venom of the United States in the end of the Cold War, but he's not a dumb man, he's a smart man. And I thought that after he had ruled for a while and after Medvedev had had his turn at the president, that Putin would see Medvedev got a lot farther with sugar than he was getting with vinegar and that he would change, he hasn't. And I think that tells you more about him and we need to worry about it. Also this thing about the Soviet Union and how it filled, it's important to remember that in 1991, when the Soviet Union broke up, Kravchuk of Crimea, I can't remember who it said, of Belarusia and Yeltsin of Russia, broke up the Soviet Union to take Gorbachev's job away from him. Shushkevich, of Belarus. Yeah, yeah, Shushkevich. So that fits right into Putin's sort of determination here and I think we need to be, when you talk about sanctions we've put on, I think we need to be confident, careful, positive, but not frantic like Putin is sort of getting. Well, Dr. Brzezinski said we should talk to him and explain to him how we really feel about Ukraine. Will he listen in your view or has he already got an agenda? Well, I think Bobby already had a chance to listen. As far as I recall, Secretary of State Kerry flew to London just a few days ago on the eve of all this and had several hours of talks with Foreign Minister Lavrov and they produced precisely nothing. I think President Putin had decided a while back on this course and he's executed it. This is grave. This is the first act of annexation in Europe since the Second World War and another word for annexation, of course, is Anschluss. And I think President Putin's perception of the United States and the West is of a somewhat supine and somewhat divided West and United States, certainly pivot to Asia, does not look like such a great idea right now. And when I look down that sanctions list, these are pretty much kind of second level characters. I'm not sure there isn't a case for taking sanctions at this point right up to the very summit. And perhaps, look, if I recall correctly, at the conference in Bucharest in 2008 where there's a lot of discussion of putting Georgia on a track to NATO membership, the Russians' Putin warned that this would have serious consequences and as a result of that, we held back. We did not give Georgia the so-called MAP. What happened? Three months later, despite this concession, I'm not sure this is a man who listens to concessions, who sees concessions. I think what is his language? His language is strength. So I think unless you respond to his strength with our own form of strength, you end up losing. And that, I think, is the situation we are in today. Well, what can we really do? Well, I think, if I may, I think in the bottom line of the answer has to be enlargement. Enlargement of the European Union, at least. Why not? I think take from Moscow a veto on whether free countries to the east of the European Union want to be members of the European Union or not. I think our task is, one, to give Putin a sense that there is an option, a better option. That's my first point, which I've already made. There are people in Russia who are very worried about what is happening. There were 50,000 people in the setting of a brutal regime demonstrating against this war just a few days ago. They're worried. I think we ought to convey to Putin you can have a deal that is reassuring, but it's not a victory for you. Second, we have to consider seriously the possibility in view of what he said, which I've quoted, that he'll try the Crimean operation in Ukraine itself. With one very important distinction, the Crimean operation was premised on the ability of quick deniability. If something went wrong, if all of a sudden there was a lot of resistance, he could say, we never attacked. These guys weren't mine. Forget it. It was some sort of a local incident. He can't do that in Ukraine. If he goes into Ukraine, either there is an engagement or there isn't. And I think we need to talk to the Ukrainians seriously and try to establish to our own satisfaction or maybe they'll tell us or share something with us. Are they really prepared to defend their territory? Because if they are, we should make it even more clear to Putin, don't plunge into that adventure because that can have escalatory consequences. And I certainly wouldn't tell the Ukrainians, since they have already asked us for some military assistance, that what we're willing to provide are pre-packaged military food. Meals, yeah. Meals, which we have told them. That is so far our contribution to their capacity for self-defense. I think we should indicate we're not going to be at war. We're not committed to war. But if you resist, and if you resist, you will certainly gain the sympathy of the West. Just as Finland did in 1939 and 1940 when Stalin attacked Finland. And that creates pressure to do more. And that becomes something that Putin has to consider. Can he really undertake a war at this stage in the heart of Europe, given the state of his economy, which is really very bad and still the relatively retarded state of his military, which is only being modernized? If he did this 10 years from now, he might have been in much better shape. But right now, I don't think a serious conflict in that part of Europe is something that Putin would welcome. He would like to have a quickie, either the breakup of Ukraine or some upheaval within Ukraine. And I think we have to reassure him in a constructive fashion that that is somewhat unlikely because we have interests too. Do you think, General Skoprop, that the Europeans will go along with meaningful sanctions? I think they are more likely to now than they were when this crisis first started. But I think part of the problem has been we have both the U.S. and the Europeans been lazy about this whole thing. The EU made an offer for a relationship with Ukraine. It was a little bit here, a little bit there, maybe some of this, maybe some of that and so on. It didn't amount to anything. Putin turns around and offers a $15 billion loan. Now, what billion? Now, what the United States could have done at that time and I think should have done is to say, look, Ukraine's economy is in terrible shape. Let's us, the United States, the EU and Russia put together a program of assistance to Ukraine to start them out. Get them going again. I don't know if it would have worked, but we're now assuming that what we've got to do is match them belligerence by belligerence by belligerence. And that may be where we end up, but I don't think we ought to start there. And just one other climate. Ukraine is a very interesting state. It's not just a country. It's three countries. Well, two, if you take out Crimea now. But there's the Crimea, which is Russian for all practical purposes in terms of its population and a few Tatars, most of whom have been driven out. Then there's Eastern Ukraine, about the Eastern roughly half, that is primarily of Russian extraction. There is West Ukraine, which has a long history with Poland, with Lithuania, with Austria. There are very different kinds of evolutions here. And so when you say Ukraine this and Ukraine that, what is it you're talking about? And Putin has done one thing that maybe he hasn't calculated right. There may be some votes or elections around here. He has changed the relative balance of the populations, because Crimea was Russian, period. And now that's out of the mix. So the balance between the two Russians or left is much closer. And remember Putin has also said that there was a coup against the president, Yanukovych, who was a Russian stooge. And I was going to say now, but... You were right. He was. And now the government is a government primarily of West Ukraine. That's different. And Putin sees that difference. And what he says is you threw out Yanukovych and put in your fascist... Let me just throw this out, because it's something that we're seeing a lot of in the press. Did this have anything to do with how the United States is now perceived in the world? I think it does to some degree. I think Putin, President Putin, had the perception that he could get away with this. And that transatlanticism had become an almost quaint term of transatlanticism. What's that for? That's so 20th century. Who cares about that? That's all of, OK, you've got the Poles, Lithuanians. They actually think Article 5 is important. They're fussing about NATO and they want NATO protection for some reason. Who knows why? And I think there was a sense not only of that division, but of a United States where the operative word is retrenchment. A United States, after two painful wars, wants to look after its own for a while. And while I don't think there's any direct link, I do think it's a matter of great concern when the United States of America sets a red line, as it did in Syria, on the issue of chemical weapons, and walks all the way up to the response called for by that red line, and then is seen at the last minute to step back from that. I think that sends a message. That registers around the world. It's not something people immediately forget. So I'm not saying there's a direct causal link, but I think there is a sense of disunity and weakness. And on that basis, President Putin, who is a man who, you know, who psychology understands a bubble of force, strength, brutality, where necessary, I think that gave him a kind of green light. What he did actually in Crimee, I covered the war in Bosnia. This is exactly what President Milosevic did in Bosnia. Serbian troops in Bosnia? No, none. What are you talking about? This attempt to get plausible deniability. You could see them. I rode on buses with them from Belgrade down into, and you still got these guys. Now, today, these terrible photographs of the Ukrainian army and navy walking out of their barracks with their hands up, and the soldiers pointing their machine guns at them are in camouflage and no identifiable insignia. What is this? Do you think, Dr. Brzezinski, did this have anything to do with how the United States is perceived rightly or wrongly? Well, probably up to a point, yes. And even right now, I'm a little surprised that with all that is happening, the President of the United States hasn't spoken to the country about the problem, hasn't put it in a larger context. He gave a brief statement in the bowels of the White House regarding these minimalist sanctions and then walked out of the room. Didn't say much to the American people. So I don't think there's even that much clarity abroad yet about our position. I hope it'll emerge in sharper relief. Well, what would you, and I want to hear from General Skullcroft on this, too. Let's say both of you, if you were advising the President, if you were the National Security Advisor, what would you tell it to do right now? I would, one, still make an attempt to see if the Russians are receptive and a larger accommodation regarding Ukraine and a generous one and a balanced one. But I'll also try to make more certain that the Ukrainians know what they're going to do and are prepared to do it and if push comes to shove, start indicating rather heavily that it will not be indifferent, will not be passive. And on that subject, let us just not exaggerate the divisions in Ukraine. There are some Russians in Ukraine, but the Russians speaking Ukrainians are not Russian. They're like the Swiss. The Swiss speak German or French. Neither one or the other is planning to join France or Germany. That's rather important. And look at some key people. One of the sort of new heroic figures of the Maidan is Klitschko. Do you know that he didn't speak Ukrainian three months ago? He spoke mostly just Russian, but he's picked it up in this current situation. Timoshenko, the great enemy of Yunaković, comes from Donetsk, I think, or Jeppe Petrovsk, one or the other. Donetsk. And she didn't speak much Ukrainian when she entered politics, but now, of course, she speaks Ukrainian. She spoke Russian. This is much more of a nation than we allow. And they were denied their national identity for a long, long time, but since the 19th century it started evolving and developing and acquiring a spirit of its own and its own heroes and its own history. They, for example, reject the notion of Kiev being Kievan Rus, meaning Russian. They emphasize its Kievan Ruthenian, of which they're the descendant, but not Russians. It was Greek Orthodox. It wasn't Russian Orthodox. Most people ignore that. Russian Orthodoxy emerged only in the 14th, 15th century. It was Greek Orthodox. So they're asserting their own identity and claiming their own history, and there is a dispute on the subject between them and the Russians. But Putin publicly has said, not just this time but previously, Ukraine is not a nation. Russia and Ukraine are one nation. A lot of Ukrainians, majority of Ukrainians, reject that. What would you advise the president right now, General? Well, as I said, I think that I think the president ought to offer that which is that we put together a program for Ukraine and see if you could get move away from the direction we're going back to where the problem started. I don't know if it will work. And it may be that it may be that Putin does think we've lost our will. I sort of doubt it, but, you know, there are a lot of indications to the contrary. And I think we need to remember we also have other things going with the Russians. You know, if there's to be some progress made in Syria, for example, it would certainly be nice if the United States and Russia were on the same. Iran, the Russians have been basically supportive of us on Iran. That's a very important issue, too. So it's not as if this is a cold war waiting to break out and so on. We have had not warm relationship. They haven't been bad everywhere. And it seems to me that if we can pull this out of the fire, at least give it one more chance to see whether Putin is long or whether his language is truly the way his mind works. You had, Roger, a really terrific piece in The Times this week about the parallels of this and World War I and all of that. How dangerous is this situation right now? Well, I wrote that just because it's the centennial, obviously, at the outbreak of World War I and Gabriela Princip, who was 19 when he shot the Archduke in Sarajevo. He was trying to secure the liberty of the South Slavs from an Imperium, the Imperium of Austria-Hungary. And of course, President Putin is trying to revive some form of Russian Imperium. Clearly, there aren't any exact parallels, but I am sure there are young folk in Ukraine who are feeling passionately indignant and angry about what has just happened. And while it's true that there are, if you like, three Ukrainians, it's also true that one Ukraine was recognized and its borders recognized by President Putin in 1994 when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. And that was formal recognition of the borders that have just been trampled upon by President Putin. Look, I don't want to be alarmist and I also absolutely agree that on the Iran dossier which is a critical one, Russian health is important. So everything has to be calibrated, but this is a sea change. It is a new ball game and I think the situation is combustible, both within Ukraine if President Putin chooses to go any further and potentially in the Baltic States where feelings run very, very high about being ruled from Moscow and I know Vice President Biden has just been there to reassure them but if there was any incident as we've just seen, it can take as the outbreak of World War I illustrates it was a 19-year-old kid who precipitated that cataclysm in combustible situations. We don't know what the spark might be but I think this is a far, far more dangerous situation than many people imagine. Alright, let's go to the audience because we'll just start right here. Go ahead. Here, sir. Is there a mic? Here comes a mic right here. No, that's a camera. Right there. Mike, over here. Here we are. Do you think that Snowden has assisted Putin in any way by supplying him with ways of... Don't laugh. Ways of collection that we have in the Ukraine and the surrounding countries that could have compromised a response? Snowden, whether Snowden... Oh, Snowden. And whether he... Did Snowden supply the Russians with some kind of intelligence that might have compromised us in some way? There's no way of answering that without knowing what he has and what he has given to the Russians. I don't know what he has. Probably more than one country. But I don't think we know what he has and we don't know what he has given to the Russians. Thank you. Paolo von Schirach. Schirach Report. Back to what you were saying a moment ago in terms of this being a game changer. Sittli, Pax Americana has been the legacy of the post-war period and it was what the fundamental principle was sanctity of borders. Now this principle has been blown away. Four reasons that you, all of you gentlemen have explained quite well. The history, the complexity, the Russian Empire, Ukraine, this and that. We all understand. Sittli, we all understand and I think we can have sympathy on the fact that most of the Crimeans are Russian, ethnic Russians. However, as you pointed out, there was a treaty sanctioned and the Treaty of Budapest, I believe it is, in which the United States, Great Britain and Russia guaranteed the Ukrainian borders. Now this principle has been blown away. I think the President Obama said, wait a minute, we cannot do this and you cannot get away with it. What, and you have explained that we don't really have that many options, but if this principle of sanctity of borders which is at the foundation of peace in Europe is blown away, then what? Then what will the United States be able to do to repair this? Because now we are most likely going to allow this to happen because there's not going to be any going back, I believe. In other words, Putin is not going to give back the Crimea to the Ukraine. Then the principle of sanctity of borders has been infringed. Is that an initial great consequence or we can just let this go? Thank you. I don't think it's an issue of that great confidence and we didn't think so either with respect to Kosovo which is a similar sort of action. As a matter of fact we used force to try to make it happen. So I don't think that's a fundamental issue. Well I think it could be a fundamental issue, but I agree with Brent that it isn't yet for one very simple reason. The Ukrainians didn't resist in Crimea. Maybe they couldn't, but they didn't. And that makes it very different because there was a kind of complacency or accommodation there part. But I'm concerned that the issue could become much greater especially if you what Putin is saying that there is going to be a challenge to the integrity and independence of Ukraine. That would be very different. And that would be very different. The lady in the back. Thank you. My OK voice of America, Georgia and service. My question is really simple and short. How safe might Georgia be in this given situation and new development? I expect Russia's further expansion military to the south. Thank you. I couldn't hear that. And would you identify yourself again and where are your children? My OK voice of America, Georgia and service. Thank you. It's very difficult for us to the sound is a little muffled. Now we know who she is, but what is the question? Maybe if you'd come up here we could I'm sorry to ask you to do this, but it's very difficult back there. Go ahead. Thank you again. My OK voice of America, Georgia and service. My question is can we expect Russia's further military expansion towards Georgia? How safe might Georgia be? Does anybody get that? Thank you. The question is how safe should Georgia feel? I think the fact is having talked to a couple of Georgians who attended our conference, Georgians do not feel safe. They do not feel in the least bit safe. In fact, they feel threatened and of course those kinds of feelings whether they're rational or irrational doesn't particularly come into it. If you're afraid you're afraid and when you've already lost 20% of your territory as Georgia has and you see what's just happened in Crimea and you see both the EU and NATO basically slamming on the brakes whenever anybody mentions any notion of Georgia coming into either the EU or NATO then you think well what's our future here? We've got President Putin up there eyeing us and to the West, which is the direction we want to go in we don't see much receptiveness so I think that's a very disturbing situation for Georgians. I don't expect President Putin to move on Georgia today, tomorrow or this year but that possibility is there and he knows it's there. That's the way that's the way he wants it to be and to come back to your questions I do think it's a serious change Kosovo was not annexed Kosovo which is 90% ethnically Albanian became independent after a bloody war across the former Yugoslavia that went on for a decade this is not the place to go into all that but I don't think it's a precise parallel and it's absolutely I'm sure many of you read President Putin's long piece in my newspaper at the time of the Syrian conflict where he was saying the only thing we have between the world and the abyss is the rule of law the sanctity of borders the centrality of the UN security council international law is the only basis on which to conduct human affairs I mean Orwellian doesn't begin to describe it Doyle McManus Thank you Doyle McManus from the Los Angeles Times I'd like to sharpen the question of what the United States should be prepared to do if the government of Ukraine says it's prepared to resist Russian incursion further Russian incursion into its territory in the east and south it seems to me there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem here their decision of what they're prepared to do may depend on their understanding of how much support they may have now Dr. Brzezinski you suggested that MREs don't seem quite enough it's a well-known menu we can provide intelligence support we can provide advisors in training we can provide non-lethal equipment we can provide lethal equipment we can provide air cover so I've given you the escalation you already know where should we be and what should we be offering I think in any case we should engage in contingency planning for all of that in different portions depending on circumstances but we should couple that with a serious communication to the Russians that we would like an alternative outcome in which we can be partners but also a reaffirmation that if the Ukrainians resist they'll not be alone we are not going to tell the Russians in advance exactly what we were going to do we may discuss some aspects of it to the Ukrainians but the test of the pudding is also in the Ukrainians they have to demonstrate that they really value their territorial integrity and are prepared to make sacrifices to protect it I think the Russians the way they've operated in Crimea as I've said before we're operating on a contingent basis if there's a lot of resistance we pull back the same may very well happen really in those districts in which there are some Russian people living and who are demonstrating like in Donetsk and so forth so the Ukrainians themselves first of all have to take some clear positions regarding what they intend to do with some degree of credibility otherwise if we don't do it then I think we really are on a path towards grievous instability in Europe and also that's spilling over to Georgia Azerbaijan of course to settle with Azerbaijanis and it could be elsewhere as well certainly Riga which has a large Russian population could be the object of sudden explosions of popular hatred and conflicts I mean you open up all sorts of gays our job is to reduce the scope of uncertainty by commitment and clarity and willingness to compromise on an intelligent level which means the president has to take a visible position and speak seriously to the American people about the problem that we confront that we and our allies confront jointly and Mrs Merkel's speech I think is a hopeful indication that more and more important Europeans are beginning to realize that we're in this together even though he has some personal distractions has also spoken strongly about this subject which given his business schedule it's a good sign anybody else want to talk about that back there the lady thank you reporter from the Voice of Merrick Chinese service I have a question here for all the panelists so are you concerned that if EU and US fail to take effective measures on Russia will be encouraged to do the same thing in its neighborhood and the second whether the US is rebalancing towards Asia will suffer from the Crimea crisis thank you if I heard it I'll start off I think the Chinese sympathies probably lie more with the Russians on this I don't think going to enter because they are neurologic on the issue territories being shifted around and so on all at Tibet and so I don't think you'll find the Chinese standing up and shouting anyone else want to Roger do you want to add to that well I think in terms of the second part of your question I want to understand what exactly Pivot to Asia meant it was a phrase and it's floated out there and there have been meetings about it it's not all together clear to me at least what it's meant but I think what President Putin has presented the West with is a strong case for looking again at the transatlantic alliance looking again at the fact that the European neighborhood is not so safe and secure that we can simply transfer our attention elsewhere I think China has a very ambivalent response to what has happened doesn't like borders changing on the other hand well it abstained at the UN I think that's an indication of this ambivalent feeling I don't expect any although I threw it into my scenario of World War 3 I don't actually expect some sudden Chinese move on Taiwan or something like that alright right down here yes sir in the second row thank you Francois Bourre from the IISS there is another country which has a common border with an EU member and with a NATO member and which has an agreement with the EU and that's Moldova also has its own Crimea in the form of Transnistria which is now asking Russia to become part of the Russian Federation and there is a game which is beginning now between Russia and Moldova to get Moldova to go to the Eurasian agreement in exchange of Transnistria not being made part of Russia what is big should we be doing now to prevent that particular domino from falling because if it does then you are going to have a problem for Russia of territorial continuity between Russian Transnistria and Russian Crimea and that happens to be the southern border lands of Ukraine so you may not have time to prepare that package of measures which you told us about earlier on what should we be doing now if I may just one remark on the leverage which we may think that Russia has vis-à-vis us on Iran and Syria I remember that during the Cold War we were able to speak and cooperate with the Soviet Union on issues of chemical and nuclear proliferation to stop simply because we are going to have a big problem with Russia otherwise Russia has permanent interests it is doing what it is doing on Iran not because it wants to be kind with us and if we get into a new Cold War it is not going to stop Russia from continuing to talk with us on Iran well I agree with you on the Iran aspect as far as Moldova is concerned there is one key factor involved here geography if Ukraine does not go the wrong way the Russians will not be able to pull that off and if necessary we and the Ukrainians can deal with it if Ukraine falters the problem is of course Moldova but of course the bigger problem is Ukraine itself this is why that is the key strategic issue right now how will the Ukrainians play it how will the Russians play it what can we do to influence a positive attitude on the part of the Russians what can we do to be clear cut in our relationship with the Ukrainians all right right there yes Edward Lozensky American University in Moscow my question to Mr. Bzyzinski what is your opinion of the neo-Nazi factor in Ukraine is it powerful, is it negligible or are we just Russian propaganda and all of them are just western democracy types there are probably some Nazis or neo-Nazis more accurately in Ukraine they're a very very minor group very similar in that respect to some neo-Nazis in Russia who seem to be a little more visible actually and who even have a very prominent philosopher supporting them and instructing on that basis Mr. Putin as to what his vision of the world ought to be I think you know what I'm referring to all right we haven't called anybody on this side over here just because right there look to your right I'm Mark Sybel with McClatchy Newspapers I have two quick questions one I'm wondering if any of you were surprised that Putin moved into Crimea because some people say we should have realized it all along and others say of course we were surprised I'm just curious what your personal situation was and then there's been a lot of discussion about NATO and how this finally brings NATO back around to having a purpose and I'm curious whether you think the initial response on behalf of NATO in the United States sending a half dozen planes to Poland that sort of thing if that's muscular enough to make an impression Roger why don't we start I was not surprised in the end game if you like I think the Germans have very good antenna in Russia and I spoke to a senior guy at the foreign ministry there about I guess two weeks before the annexation and he's a fairly prudent guy and he said our impression and Steinmeier the foreign minister had just been to Moscow and his impression was he's going to go all the way I don't think we can stop him and I was surprised then I said really and then I saw these moves that reminded me very much of Belgrade and what I'd witnessed in Bosnia of course no parallel is exact and so I was not I was not surprised right at the end in terms of your second question was about what NATO the NATO response President Obama is about to go to Europe he's going to Brussels I believe for the first time very soon this month and the one thing I would say is I think it's absolutely critical that there be a this trip be well prepared and that there be a strong united vigorous statement about what has about what has occurred and there was a mention I think Obama's statement to Article 5 of the NATO treaties but it came well down the list I think it could have been higher up the list just as I think the people's sanction could have been of a more significant level about you too were you surprised yes I was surprised I was surprised by how efficiently and essentially non-violently the Russians were able to pull it off it was a well run operation well planned with all possibilities of this engagement if you need to be but I was also surprised that the Ukrainians there didn't offer some resistance could we should we have known about this if we paid attention yes but we weren't paying attention you know Ukrainians had several elections they've gone with the western part the eastern part the anchor was put in jail by Yanukovych so this has been a troubled country for a long long time but it was a backwater and we had this little surge about Ukrainian NATO for a time but no we have not paid attention to it and I think we probably could have avoided it had we been on top of the problem when it first started with the Russians and the EU well I'm sorry to say we have come to the end of our program but before you go we have one other thing we want to take note of today is General Skokrov's birthday I'm sorry I don't do birthdays anymore well there is cake for everybody here and it'll be behind you as you leave and thanks from TCU and CSI that was a pleasure


What's going on everybody got kyle and donnie here with latent sports cards and we are ripping this is 2023 tops You wave the champions league soccer sapphire five box number five Did it randomize before the break? I'll show you guys results again real quick jim b with solsberg Leipzig lever kussen down to sammy with Tottenham West Ham and at the letico Good luck. Good luck guys. Let's see what we got Five box number five got number six coming right after this guys. Let's get it filled up box number one Yes. Yes. Good luck, Mitchell Good luck. Good luck. It's like Greg took a spot two spots in sapphire. Appreciate that Greg Rich grabbing some spots got mark with a couple spots a little 10 box Tuesday action Mike grabbing a spot in team all thinking Mike John grabbing a spot in retail And two more spots and sapphire guys very nice. I think we're down to uh, we down to eight out of ten down to ten Take it another sapphire right after this. Good luck here guys. Good luck See what we got the first one Charles the Ketlier There's a is a loose key for Roma wonder kids rookie Sapphire pull a sick got to Rami nice. You got ailing Holland on the variation there for Man City Variation one per box got Holland this time. I got a fortress of top letters ready to go There's a Ali Doe Frankford Alexander Arnold Adiemi and this one is going to be guard y'all. It's a 50 for Leipzig nice one there One of the better defenders in the in European football right now. Guard y'all the 50 on the orange. There's Levin Dossky Sesco and future stars new no-mindettes Good luck. Good luck here guys Karim Benzema Matisse tell less than McKinney and rookie wonder kids Ali Cho Sociedad Come on come on Kaku Phil Foden Zidane Iqbal and this one is messy messy on the base sapphire PSG rookie of Alfie Devine for Tottenham Allison Becker soba sly and green is going to be Gavi nice one there number to 70 for Barcelona Nice young player Gavi Green is number to 70 rookie Enzo Fernandez for Chelsea got a rookie of Yuri Rieger Ajax Dyson Maida and a Dyson Maida on these sapphire selections insert. He's about one per box as well We're Celtic all righty guys down to nine to go down to nine to go appreciate your Robert taking a spot in the next one It'll be this same. Um, this same break five boxer. It's just the second half of this case breaking next righty box number two Come on. Come on. Let's see some little numbers here. It's a nice guard y'all in the first one to 50 Let's see even lower numbers Columawani rookie for Frankfurt got Otamendi Bukayo Saka and wonder kids is going to be Benjamin Sesco for Salzburg Tucson Blahovic Muhammad Sala rookie Warren Zaire Emery PSG and our Variations gonna be messy You go Alvin nice one there chippy the variation messy sapphire got the goat right there on his sleeve Must be true Ed and Jekyll got Santa sitch future stars got Haraldson rookie And orange is gonna be for Chelsea Raheem sterling number to 50 It's sterling there the um England striker winger Both Alvaro Rodriguez rookie move around there's a Steven Burge vine Got Philip Cole and David Silva for Sociedad It's lots on rookie or not rookie Wow very old slot on slots on Marcus Rashford got a rookie Rodrigo Ribeiro and Wonder kids rookie of a more dead itch Salzburg could have been a record. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's like 40 so Not a rookie Patrick Valmark for Feyenoord got a Fabio Blanco Barcelona Alvaro Maratza and a Jeremy Doku for Stott Chukwameka got KDB Odegard and Purple is Eirling Holland four out of 15 Boom nice sit there man City. That one's gonna be Jimmy Will mag that for you Jimmy four out of 15 on the Eirling Holland purple I'll do Congrats on that one Jimmy King of the EPL right now man Very nice one there very nice We'll take a low numbered Holland. There's the Grasa future stars got a rookie Baca Yoko there's a Boppe base and Mahalo Moudre it's gonna be our sapphire selections One per box there for Chelsea box three Yeah, we'll get that one magged up for you man City Very nice hit there on the Holland. Let's keep it going here guys Let's see some more nice some more nice a number and bad thing Yay Hungman sewn got Sussich Marco Royce and got a wonder kids of Gavi Latura Martinez got a Pablo Torre rookie Barcelona Got Johansson Bergman Johansson rookie Copenhagen and Ronaldo is gonna be our variation for Barca Ronaldo Nazario Future stars Ecare Bravo got Antony Antonio Nusa rookie Club Rouge and green is gonna be Neymar for PSG 48 out of 70 Luca Yovitch got a rookie Elling jr. Got Louise Diaz for Liverpool and a rookie of bitch you Bishiyabu PSG rookie base Sorry about that Mitchell. Let's turn that around For inverts for inverts got a Alfonso Davies Zalewski rookie and Rooney Bargey wonder kids sapphire Rooney Mason mounts got Cole Palmer Fabio Silva and rookie is a sugo Sporting Sondra Tonali got Garnaccio nice rookie there for man you Alejandro Nacho got incuncu and yellow is gonna be leturro Martinez for Inter Milano 99 Leturro Tony Cruz rookie Casado got Jota and Declan Rice for the Hammers Thank You Jake taking Browns in both of our NT cases tonight Bob taking our last spot in spectra. Thank you Bob and rich grabbing a spot in elite Appreciate you guys still got nine to go on the next sapphire guys. It'll be the next five cases of this same case second half of the case Nine to go box for right you guys box for good luck. Good luck. There's a lot time Rashford rookie Roberto and a marked edit rookie for Salisbury Patrick Valmark Fabio Blanco and our Variations gonna be Jude Bellingham Nice one there for BVB Jude Bellingham the newest Real Madrid star orange to 50 Chuka make up Doku odegaard and rookie orange to 50 is gonna be Matisse Albion That'll be for Stodd Rains That one is seven out of 50 KDB Degrassa Baki Yoko rookie and in Bapé on the base for PSG Gabriel Veron. There's Saudi Omane We've got Tammy Abraham And that's gonna be wonder kids for BVB Jamie Gittens rookie wonder kids Tebow Cortua rookie Marrera Got a Cody Gakpo for Liverpool and rookie of a door for Club Bruges How's everyone going it? How's everyone doing today? How's everyone day going Harry Kane Christian Erickson rookie Gittens and a becker for a Liverpool the 99 I was some Brazilian keeper last pack in box for here guys Valentin Carbonee Inter Pedri, we've got William Clem rookie Copenhagen and Skamaka Right. All right guys box number five now tops chrome sapphire. Good luck. Good luck guys. I appreciate everybody helping us fill up today Really been moving nice the Spots today appreciate that guys. We got some of football later, too, man. We're getting close You're getting close Man, let's go Let's go Donnie Box five We'll be a lot more talkative when I'm not drowning out in the ocean. Yeah, rookie Aslani Got Graven birch rookie Lisetic for a C Milan and a Rico Lewis wonder kids rookie Luca Modric Gornadouath rookie Bellingham and another variation of Ronaldo for Barcelona Ronaldo Nazario rookie Alvaro Sons There's a young O block we've got Darwin Nunez and green is going to be Rio hatate to 70 nice color match there for Celtic That's hot day to 70 Santiago Jimenez nice rookie there for fine-nord Concesio got Coulou chef ski and a marita Reese James It's my duke Rookie of Pablo Marine and a illing junior there rookie for Juventus The wonder kids base Leroy Sonne This one is Frederico Chiesa Longa and Garabi future stars future stars talk a hero Nikai Rookie Julian Alvarez for Man City got Matisse Albion rookie Stod and a Taion Buchanan for club bruce and our last pack here guys Evan Nielsen On Sufati we got de bala and we got a yellow it is rookie for a C Milan to 99 It's gonna be Marco Lezet itch on the rookie nice one there forward for a C Milan yellow to 99 We'll do a quick color recap here guys We had to 99 Allison Becker for Liverpool. We had to 99 Latura Martinez and to 99 Lezet itch Green to 70 Rayo Hattate and Neymar and a Gabi we had orange to 50 Raheem Sterling and Guardiola and rookie Matisse Albion for Stod and we had Holland number to 15 on our purple sapphire And one was for 15 nice hit there man City All righty guys that'll do it for the five box sapphire number five. Thank you so much We'll get number six going here in just a minute


Welcome everyone. This is the Jenkins governance meeting. It's June the 16th, 2021. Thanks for being here. We've got agenda items, including news, contributor summit, deprecating Ruby runtime, Jenkins funding updates, plug and end of life policy possibly. I had put LFX mentorship budget, but I'm not sure I've got anything to talk to it and discourse any other topics that need to go on the agenda for today. No, that sounds like we're done. Okay, great. And let's keep it brief and to the point. So by way of news, contributor summit is coming June 25. We'll talk about it in more depth later in this meeting. End of the month, we've got Jenkins 2.289.2 coming. And we've switched from FreeNode to Libra for our IRC chat system and the discourse proof of concept is ongoing. Can I just ask one question regarding IRC? If my understanding is correct, we updated the documentation on Jenkins that I knew, but we did not send the blog posts. So most of the people are not aware of the fight that we are moving IRC network. I don't think anyone who goes to FreeNode will be checking either their website or the blogs. So I mean, it's good to do, but I don't think anyone, they won't change anything. I know at least some people with cloudbies from time to time go to IRC channel to ask questions. They were surprised last week that nobody was answering questions anymore and they did not follow all the drama around FreeNode. And so that's what I mean that we shouldn't write a small blog post. I mean, it doesn't have to be really big. Just like, goodbye, FreeNode is dead and we are moving. Yeah, no, I'm not saying don't do that. I'm, oh, like did, excuse me. Oh, I did comment on Twitter about it. I don't know anywhere else. Sorry. No, it's common on Twitter, but there's no blog posts and all the documentation was updated. So for about half there, I could annoyed it half done tests. I also don't know how much we wanna support IRC anymore because it's getting pretty dead. Yeah, so it feels like no harm for us to blog the change. I'm happy to do something quick and easy. Any objections from others if I do that? I think that would be nice. I remember that we wanted to discuss about switching from IRC to something else. I think the first move was first to leave FreeNode and because of FreeNode, next, I mean, we can then introduce a discussion about if we want to use metrics or something else. Great, but yeah, at least for now, we just want to be sure that we leave FreeNode and everybody's aware of that. I think, yeah, say where we've left, throw in a comment saying there's also Gitter and there's also Dispers. Great. Don't direct them there, but that way if there's only 10 people in IRC, they have other options. Right, okay, Gitter and discourse. Good, all right. I'll do it, you should see that later today. Okay, Gavin, anything you want to report for us since we've got you on the hook there for discourse? How's it going or Olivier? My perception is it's just great, what? So, Gavin, maybe you want to share that? Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot to share. It's going pretty well. We have, I don't know, I haven't looked recently, but like 40 or 60 users, about 20 of them are posting stuff. So it was pretty good. As Olivier pointed out in Twitter, I really like to show off category because a lot of people are posting all kinds of things like the books they've written and upcoming plugins, Tim did the blue ocean thing. So generally I'm pretty happy with the way this is going and I'm hoping we can cut over more and more things to it because it does work really well. Excellent, yeah. So here's a trend chart posting from Olivier. All right, great. And I think we'll cover a little bit more about discourse, the regular, the contributors of it anyway. Great, all right. That will be part of the decision. Okay, last item of news, not a big news item, but just be aware that my thing that was going to take me out has been canceled because of health quite concerns. Next topic, so contributor summit, Olivier. Sure, let me share my screen if you want because I would like to share the schedule. You bet. So if you're new to the discussion, so next week we'll have a contributor submitted and we are still discussing about how to organize today. We want to obviously add that some major changes in the Jenkins project, I mean, initiatives that are running right now. We would like also to have a decision in the, so let me share my screen so you can see the schedule first. Where is this? I hope you can see the screen here. So yeah, before I introduce what the schedule is, so we would like to cover different kind of area. We would like to highlight project updates. We would like to update highlights, seek updates. We also want to take this opportunity to discuss major changes that we want to bring to the Jenkins projects. That's something that we usually do during the contributor summit. And we would also like to save some space for highlighting some specific work like on a specific plugin or whatever. Something important to keep in mind is the time is aligned with the Silicon, which is East US time zone. So I created a draft for the day. So the first thing is obviously because there are a lot of people on different time zone. I just put the major on time zone. So just to help you identify if it's possible for you. And then we would have four main categories. The first one is project update, as I said. There you can expect updates from board members, officer of the Jenkins projects. I was thinking to have a contributor track. Initially, my understanding was we were on the PDT time zone. So we were with West Coast, which was a little bit more difficult for people from Europe, but we don't have that constraint anymore. So something that I would like to suggest is we first do the project update, then we do the seek updates, and then we continue with the contributor track. So we have more people from everywhere in the US. So that's the main categories. And then we would finish the conference with various presentation, many different topics. We can have a presentation with let's say Jenkins, Jenkins X, open to a pedometric plugin. We have many options there. What I need right now is to finalize the schedule. So I'm really looking for feedback on this schedule. And also I'm looking for people to either talk or leave description. So for instance, in the case of the project update or seek updates, the idea is to have someone who can do a quick update, five or 10 minutes. But in the case of the contributor track, the idea here is more to be a moderator and to drive a discussion. So we would like to have as many contributors interested by those specific topics. So those topics that we identify, I mean, you can still change those topics, but one of them is plugin end-of-life policy. Several people bring, that they would like to introduce, that's a policy to deprecate some plugin. And I think that's a good place to discuss about that. We always a session on contributing to Jenkins. Mark will lead that session. He does a pretty good job on that area. Some people reported that they would like to discuss about how to upgrade Guava in Jenkins. I'm not a Java developer, so I cannot go too much into the detail there. But I know that Baptiste was interested to lead that discussion. Alec requested a session on the outreach program that we would have in the coming months. It's something that I have to identify if someone else can take the lead on this one. We would like to have a discussion on Java 11, Java 8, and obviously Java 17 because Java 17 will be the new test. Java 8 is released in September. So if you are interested by that topic, feel free to manifest yourself. And finally, another session that I would like that I would like to cover is governance because we will have governance around October and November. That would be the third time that we organize the election on the Jenkins project. We organize two time following two different processes with different kind of results. And so I would like to go back in time to understand what we did well and what we want to change based on our last two attempts. So those are the contributor tracks. If you have any other topic you want to bring, feel free to manifest yourself, you still have one week to change. Seek updates, I'm still trying to identify people to do an update here. I'm trying to convince and try to find a way for people from Asia to participate as well. So yeah, I'm trying to be to find a solution for them. And yeah, any question? So I'm interested in the Java 11 topic. If Tim doesn't feel like leading it, I would be willing to lead it. I don't want to let that one drop from the agenda. Okay, good to know. Thanks. Question for you, Ulavik. And Kevin, if you have a specific topic that you want to cover during the contributor summits, yeah, perfect to manifest. We also have to work on the slide for the project update and the seed updates. Yeah, I myself can't participate because I have lectures the whole day. And that's almost this, the whole time slot is during my lectures. So I'm sorry that I can't help here. At least I can't speak. That's fine. There are always solutions. So it's also 6 a.m. for me. So I... For you beginning, I know it would be difficult. Well, I mean, on a good day, I get up at like eight. So I mean, I can get up early, but that's getting for those two days. Either way, I'm not totally interested in presenting anything right now. So if I don't have to, I'd rather not. Okay, good to know as well. Yeah, that's fine. I just needed your confirmation. Otherwise, we have another Google Doc. Do I have a link to this one? Let me see if I can find it's... So I'm also looking for feedback on this one. So... I'm gonna put the link to the agenda. So here. So what I'm looking... So we started when Google Doc to explain the more in detail in a Google Sheets to have a big picture ID of what we want to do. If you have some ideas for the unconference part, so let's say a small presentation on Jenkins or no people who would be interested to participate, I'm looking for speakers in the last session. So right now we have... I'm looking for Jenkins and Tecton interoperability. I got confirmation that we can have a session on Jenkins and Jenkins 6.3. Jenkins and the open telemetry plugin and the work done by Elastic. And yeah, I'm looking for more to pick here. I think that's all for me on the... So Olivier, one of your questions was okay to... Is it okay to switch the order as you proposed? I'm just gonna call for a vote. Any dissent or plus one from everyone please? Is it okay that we take his agenda as he's proposed it? So the suggestion to move the contributor track a little bit later is that it will be easier for giving to participants. Uli? Fine for me yet. Okay, fine for me. Randall, thanks for joining us. Want to express your opinion? I'm Eastern time, so I'm usually up at five o'clock in the morning to feed my cats, so time is not really a problem. Great, all right. And Gavin, you okay with that? Yeah, I'm okay with that. I don't know how much I can participate anyways, but yeah. Understood, thanks Gavin very much. Okay, so we've got a plus ones all around for the schedule as proposed. So that's great because then tomorrow I finalize the schedule and start promoting it. Excellent, thank you very much. Any other topics we need, let's see, a draft email, invitation email has been posted. Olivier gave some feedback there suggesting we should use discourse as the contact point. I'll create a new topic under the contributing on discourse so that people can reply there. So that way we'll try to motivate them if they have some issue and they receive the invitation email, they'll go to the discourse community and post their question there. So yeah, that's one of the things that's still to be done. And another discussion which is happening at the moment is how we manage the swag and how we send them swag. So I think we still have an open question on who will pay for the swag and how much we have to pay. It's difficult to know in advance how many swag we want to send. But yeah, I don't have the answer. I'm just sharing that we are discussing with Alisa and the CF and other people. Great, thank you. Thanks very much. All right, anything else on contributor summit? No, that's all for me. At least for now. Okay, the deprecating Ruby runtime, I'm not sure there's anything we need to report there. We had an item for Daniel to continue reviewing it. I have to review it. I assume that I've not seen anything indicating that's been reviewed. So I think we're still on hold there. Jenkins funding updates as far as I understand it, Gavin and Evelina both have access to the, to the funding system. So that's in progress. Nothing other that I need to report unless someone else has something they need to report. Okay, great. And I understand we've got plug in end of life policy. As a topic for the contributor summit. I don't think there's anything more we need to discuss here, except being aware that it'll be a topic at contributor summit. Prepare ourselves. Be sure we're ready to discuss and have good plans. If it hasn't been released in three days, it should be deprecated. Okay. Thank you, Gavin. This is continuous delivery. If you don't have to download it every five minutes, it's dead. Okay. Thank you. I love an aggressive policy. Boy, that would be a winning aggressive policy. Okay. That one scares me. We haven't done an update in four months. I understand Randall. Yep. That's there. There are plenty of surprises to be found. I think all my plugins are at least a year. So yeah, I know. Okay. Last topic I put on the agenda weed, I think already discussed briefly, but anything else that needs to be shared with regard to discourse and our progress there. I think it's working great. People can register an icon can ask questions and participate. We already saw nice demo. In the show off section that Garrett created. I get it. Giving created, sorry. Yeah. So I think it's working well. The only thing that we may do. You may have is more option. Like being able to use Twitter. Or whatever. That's something that we can improve in the future. But for now, I think we already have something working pretty well. Yeah, as much as I think the single sign on is with Linux is a good idea. I don't think very many people have Linux foundation accounts. I only got one in the last year. So I, the more options we have for social logins, the better. I'm going to send out. Another blast old email list next week. Probably maybe a week after. I want to make sure that people have time to not get it too often. And then I've been talking to advocacy, CIG, UX, CIG, and. What did I say the other one was, oh, and Mark was talking about doc CIG about possibly moving the majority of the communication to discourse to try it out. So I don't know how much we're going to do that. But I. Oh, okay. That's a zoom be having the dots. Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, I don't know if they're, they're. Really said UX is interested, but, and Mark said docs is interested. We haven't moved forward to any of them yet. And would that be done with a category? How does, how, how do you envision that working? I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. Okay. Because this is one thing. What I'm a little bit missing currently from this course. I'm opening this web page and. And there are all messages and what I would like to expect is, where is the UX CIG button? And then I see all the message from there. So there is a category. So maybe, maybe, maybe I can show. Mark, you can show your screen. Yeah. And I can give you a quick overview. So Olivier. Go ahead. Yeah. I'm doing it. Sorry. Can you see my screen? You should. It needs to be, I'm going to get rid of that better. That better was an accident.  Something that we, we started to try to understand.  Something that we, we started to try to understand how we do is the category. So we can organize discussion by categories. That's one way. And so if we think of the categories, you have different, I would say major categories, that's something that we started working on. It's still, I mean, we still have to improve, but for us what we thought was to have one major category with Jenkins use, Jenkins. Community. for language group, Spanish, French, and so on. And so for instance, if you go to contributing, we could add a subcategory. So right now, we only have in the subcategories infrastructure and GSOC. So let's say we could imagine UX if you want. And then when you create a new topic, you just start a discussion and then can specify the different categories that you want to have. So you can, for instance, specify the top category which is contributing. You could specify contributing infrastructure. And the way it works is, as a user, you can have filters. You can say, I'm uninterested by the topic in infrastructure and the contributing. And so it's really easy to identify what you want to do specifically. So that's how it's working right now. Does it answer your question about having a UX category? So the biggest challenge that we have at the moment is to have enough categories so we can organize the discussion, but not too much so people are lost in the different categories because you can have level one categories, then you can have level two categories, and level three, and so on. You don't really have a limit. It's just like level one and level two is really easy to see from here because the top level is the big box using Jenkins community contributing. The level two is, let's say, infrastructure, GSOC, announcement, event. So those are the blue box that you see. And then level three categories, it's a little bit harder to identify quickly. Oh, no, so I know we have the calendar enabled. So when you create your events for the contributing summit, you should make sure that the post has a date set to it, the hamburger at the top right. Okay. That way it'll show up in calendar so we can start seeing events that are happening around as well. Okay. Thank you. Is this course only available in the browser? No, they have an application for Android and iOS. So it can also work. But not on native, but not on Mac OS or on Windows and Linux. It's just... Yeah, I think it's only web browser. They have a very rich API, so I would bet you someone has made a client for it, but it is a web app. So I've been looking.  So that might be a good idea as well. Yes, someone should make a Jenkins plugin for that. It had occurred to me. I'm going to make an RSS plugin soon. So when I do that, I might make one that we can, I don't know, do something from Jenkins into discourse. So yeah, we can do a lot of things with discourse. We are still at the beginning of the process, so we are still learning. And so we are open to that as well. It looks like there's some activity on GitHub around it. Around it? What do you mean by that? I assume you're muted speaking in a Jenkins plugin. Sorry. Yeah, there is some activity around application building for discourse on GitHub, but I don't know how far it's gone. And I must say goodbye. I've got another meeting to go to. Goodbye. A pleasure seeing everyone. Finally putting a face to the names. Thanks, Randall. Thank you very much for joining us. I'll try to do so again. Great. Look forward to it. So we have covered all the topics that I had on the agenda. Are there any other topics? I don't think so. All right. There is one last thing that I would have loved to review before the contributor, Semik. I mean, that's a roadmap that we use in Jenkins.io, but I don't think we'll have the time to review that here. Yeah, I think we would want a larger group and a more detailed review. How about we propose that asynchronously? Is your worry that the roadmap may be outdated as published to Jenkins.io? Because we reviewed it two or three weeks ago in governance. Okay. So yeah, I have to do the check. So maybe I was wrong. Okay. I just wanted to be sure that it was today for the contributors. All right. Then I propose that we stop the meeting here. All right. Thanks, everybody. Thanks to you. Thanks, Gavin. Bye.


It's Friday night in the A. You know what that means. Kelly Price and Tori McElhaney coming at you on Rise Up Tonight, presented by AT&T. And it is a victory Friday in the A y'all. Kelly Price, Tori McElhaney with you and the Falcons got a win. But also the temperatures finally did below 80 degrees. So it's sweater weather in full effect. You know, I've brought down all of my hoodies. So be prepared to see all of those. It is time. It is happening. And the vibes can't be anything but immaculate when you were talking about a Falcons dub. Time now to huddle up about it. Let's huddle up with Kelly and Tori on the world of Falcons football. And we got to start with the NFC offensive player of the week, Cordero Patterson. Not only was this the first time CP was tapped with this honor, but he also smashed another career record on Sunday after setting his career rushing high week one against the Saints. The final stat line Sunday, 141 yards and a score on 17 carries. Oh yeah. And a league leading 8.3 yards per carry. It's wild to think about what he's doing because let's not forget, my guy is 31 years old. Everyone else in this locker room calls him unc. And yet, here he is having a career renaissance story. Here's the thing I really love about this. I don't think anyone expected CP to have the start that he has this year. Why? A lot of people on the outside looking in thought his success in 2021 was a fluke. Here's a guy who's spent a decade in the league before exploding offensively. Well, three games into this year, we see that no. Last year was not a fluke. It's a fruition. Arthur Smith said after the win that Patterson is someone who has continued to evolve even at 31 years old. And let's not forget how this offensive line is playing right now either. CP is consistently getting to the second level of the defense that has a lot to do with him and the guys blocking for him up front. And he made sure to give those guys a shout out post game on Sunday. So some other guys on this team kind of had a, I told you so, moment on Sunday. The Falcons fandom was melting down over Kyle Pitts. And I was right there with you guys. He was like, all right, bet. AJ Terrell doubters, silence. Wasn't Sunday a little bit of a pump the brakes moment on some of these things that we've been worried about with this team? It absolutely was. I think this win in Seattle shows you just how much things can change from week to week. And look, I completely understand why people were underwhelmed by Kyle Pitts and AJ Terrell's performance through the first two weeks. But let's remember, it's just the first two weeks. It's not the end of the world. And look, KP goes out there and has an 87 yard receiving day. AJ performed very well on an island with DK Metcalf. Remember what I said on the show last week about not giving up on these two? Well, I hope Falcons fans believe me now that, yes, things are gonna be okay with KP and AJ. So looking ahead, the Falcons have a good shot at getting back to 500 this Sunday. Remember last season when it took them until week 16 to get a win inside Mercedes Benz Stadium? Well, they've got a shot to do that this week and make home really feel like home early on. We've talked a lot about how this team is maybe like two fumbles away from being three and oh too. Well, here's their shot to write the ship, they really made progress to get back to 500. Look, if Falcons can get to 500 this weekend, that is a really nice step in the right direction, not just for this team in 2022, but for the fan base too. The Falcons have spoken a lot this week about getting a win at home. It means a lot to them to be able to give a solid and productive performance at Mercedes Benz Stadium on Sundays. I really do think that they're really taking this to heart, but a run first Browns team stands in their way. And I will say stopping the run and being productive in their own run game is going to be a major storyline as we head into Sunday. For sure. Well, as Dion Sanders once iconically said, look good, play good. And that's exactly what happened for the Falcons in Seattle. Let's take a look at Sunday's Falcons Fits. We start with a veteran making his Falcons Fits debut in a big way. Casey Hayward, we love a good matching set, but if you look closely, this is not just your average set, Tori. This is baby blue leather and he keeps it clean with some white sneakers too. So I actually didn't know that this was a leather fit at first until someone told me. I originally thought this looked like a pajama set that you can buy at Target, but the knowledge of this being a leather set changes everything. And it's still comfortable, which we are definitely here for. Felipe Franks may have been inactive on Sunday, but that did not stop him from making a fashion statement. He has another farewell to summer kind of moment here with the striped shirt. Kind of like Casey's. What might go overlooked about the Fit, though? The floral duffel bag that he's holding. It is either a bold move or maybe belongs to his girlfriend. Honestly, I like the addition of the bag. It really does add a little bit of summer vibes. I'd like to borrow it, if that's okay. Another week, another Kaderal Hodge Soleil. I love the contrast with the fun lime green sweater, the black jeans, the snap rack that really brings it all together in perfect harmony. And by the way, that snack kind of matches the whole outfit. You know, I really do like some gummies and they really do add a certain feel to the whole look. But to be completely serious, I'm not usually a big fan of lime green, but this really works for him. And you gotta have the snack, so he is prepared there. Richie Grant iced the game with that late interception. And honestly, we should've all seen it coming with the icy Fit that he wore before the game. I love the subtle checkered suit, but I also love how he dressed it down with an unbuttoned shirt and sneakers. All business in this look, I'm here for that. I think the word I used when I was talking to Richie about his suit post game in the locker room was fly, which is not a word that I use lightly. Well, speaking of fly, we've heard about this defense flying around all season, but what if some of the players could actually fly? We found out this week that some of them would actually pick that as their superpower if given the chance in our question of the week. Probably to fly. Yeah, I don't see you can go wrong with that. I mean, I guess there's a lot to choose from, but flying, I don't think you can beat that. I mean, it seems pretty cool to me. Mind reading. Mind reading, what's that? I think it'd be fun, it'd be pretty cool. I would say super speed. So I'd get anywhere, beat traffic, get where I gotta go fast. I had so many dreams as a kid about flying. I'd probably be flying. Yeah, I'd probably be superman or something like that. I'm with Young Wei Ku. Mind reading would be really good. And then for him, he can know, all right, this guy's gonna try to block me, so I gotta do this differently. That's nice. You know, we just got back from Seattle. That was a long flight. I would like to teleport. That would make things so much easier. That is very solid. Well, still to come here on Rise Up Tonight, we welcome street artist Greg Mike back to the show to talk about his new gallery and, of course, his love for the A. And the Falcons welcome three girls black football teams from Montana for a big football weekend in Seattle. That story is next on Rise Up Tonight. Rise Up Tonight is presented by AT&T and brought to you by Georgia Lottery. Today could be the day. By Home Depot, how doers get more done? By Mercedes Benz, the best of nothing and by Chewis, committed to a better future. Well, the Falcons have been huge supporters of girls flag football in Georgia, starting in 2018 in Gwinnett County at 19 high schools to now 240 schools across the state, plus now expanding into Alabama and Montana. And three of those Montana teams actually got to take part in Falcons walkthrough in Seattle last week as we Rise Up for Atlanta brought to you by Chewis. Last week, 75 girls and five coaches from Butte, Flathead and Glacier High Schools in Montana, bust into Seattle from Calispell, Montana. They got to go to the Falcons walkthrough and Stanford Washington game on Saturday and then the Seahawks Falcons game on Sunday. For a lot of these girls, it was their first time seeing an NFL team live and several were really emotional, as you can see in these pictures. And Troy Anderson, who is Mr. Montana, of course, must be their biggest hero. Tori, you were there too. What was it like to see the players and girls kind of interact? It really was fun for me to get to see and talk to some of these girls and see them interact with some of these players. And I'll say this to these girls interacting with Troy Anderson was fantastic. I mean, I loved watching and it was really cool to see. And I mean, here's a guy who is the pride of Montana right now for these girls to meet and they absolutely loved it. Also, a lot of the girls had the guys updating their B-reels with them. And I swear 90% of the guys had no earthly idea what that was, but the girls loved it. So really, that's all that matters. Yeah, that's all that matters. Well, these girls also sew a heck of a game on Sunday. Lots of offense, 800 total yards between the Seahawks and the Dirty Burtz. And as you wrote on your notebook on AtlantaFalcons.com, the Falcons defense certainly bent, but it didn't break. Seattle was two for five in the red zone settling for three field goals and only two touchdowns allowed. Oddly, both 18 yard passes, which was kind of random. Obviously easier to say this now when you win, but is this what Dean Pease is looking for from his guys? I'm paraphrasing here, but Dean Pease has said on a few occasions, look, I don't care how many yards we give up. I care how many points are scored on us. And that's exactly what we saw last Sunday. Heck, Seattle had over 400 yards of total offense. If you're looking at that alone, you're like, well, why didn't they win? Well, because the Falcons defense held down the line that really matters, which is the goal line. Absolutely. Well, speaking of rushing yards, the Falcons had 179, the Seahawks had 112, but there was a corgi on the loose at Lumenfield after this corgi race they had at halftime. And he had like 150 yard scrambling, which you're about to see right here. This guy is so evasive and that is some SEC speed if I've ever seen it, Tori.  I would like to petition officially for every halftime entertainment moving forward to be the corgi cup. I mean, look, this is the joy that we would get every week. Yeah, and someone needs to draft that guy. Sign him. He can help someone's practice squad at least. Well, we are again, two for two on our hot takes. It's like we know what we're talking about or something over here. Stay tuned to see what our expert picks are for this week. And the man behind some of the coolest murals you've seen around Atlanta joins us next on Rise Up Tonight. This is presented by AT&T and brought to you by Georgia Lottery. Today could be the day. By Home Depot, how doers get more done? By Mercedes Benz, the best of nothing. And by Truitts, committed to a better future. That's with Kelly, Tori, and this week's special guest brought to you by Mercedes Benz. All right, well, in the next list today is street artist Greg Mike, who is actually our first guest that we've had twice on the show. You were once on the show when Harry Douglas and Sudu were on it. But so welcome back.  Yeah, so I came to Atlanta from Tallahassee. I was going to school of Florida State many moons ago and now I've been in Atlanta almost close to 20 years. But yeah, it was just one of those cities that I was drawn to and there's just so much going on from just like a culture perspective and just like, you know, art in general, like street art and that whole movement and just really inspired me. You know, I've traveled all over the world now and I just keep, you know, keep wanting to stay and live in Atlanta, you know? It's got so much going on so I'm hyped to be a part of it. Now I am a big MCU superhero type fan so I love an origin story. So I would love to know what got you into art in the first place. How did this hobby and this passion really set that fire for you? Yeah, I mean, I've been doing art as long as I can remember since I was probably, you know, eight or nine years old. Grew up skateboarding, just loved all the skateboard graphics in the bottom of the skateboard decks. Used to try to redraw those and I remember just sitting in front of my TV and watching all the mid-century retro cartoons growing up, watching all that.  Before you started exploring kind of what you're seeing, you know, in the world and interpreting in your own way, you're kind of just taking things and trying to replicate them. So yeah, I was doing that a lot and then I got kind of skateboarding got me into the graffiti scene and the street art scene and painting on the streets and that kind of led into the murals and the bigger walls and things that I do now. But yeah, that's kind of was the entry point and it's just kind of grown since then. All of our viewers driving around Atlanta could recognize your work immediately. You have it behind you. It's very recognizable you have that collab with the Falcons a couple of years ago on Edgewood Avenue. I'm sure a lot of people have driven by that in the past. What was it like to work with the Falcons and could there be another project with them or any other kind of sports team coming up? Yeah, I mean, it was a dream project. Obviously, you know, I've always wanted to work with the Falcons and you know, it was awesome to be able to play with like some of the iconic imagery from some of the logos and branding elements and kind of work them into my piece. But yeah, I mean, that one, you know, a lot of my work is very loud and it's just based on, you know, bold colors and energetic line, you know, line work and things of that nature. And I feel like there's a lot of similarities with the Falcons and the energy of the team. So it was cool to kind of take those two and mesh them together. But yeah, hey, if there's a call and we're, you know, there's a project I'm definitely going to do it. So, you know, it's always a blessing working with them. So it's definitely something I'd love to do again in the future. That's awesome. You know, for me, I'm not very artistic. I don't see the world in that way. And so anytime I meet someone who does think in that way and think visually, I mean, I always wonder about the different projects that they're doing. Now you just opened an exhibit six by six at AVV Gallery. What is kind of the difference between making an exhibit in and of itself versus maybe your work doing murals and all those kind of things? What's the difference in that? Yeah, so for me, I mean, like one thing that I always say is my motto is kind of like by any medium necessary, right? So that could be, you know, creating a piece of paper that's just a drawing on, you know, so pen and ink drawing on regular paper to painting a massive 40 foot wall. I think there's different things and different emotions and different things that you can convey depending on the scale and size of work, you know, and it's nice also to have having things in the street where someone that might not ever walk into ABV Gallery might never see the art. So putting art on the streets, you know, I definitely think it hits a wider audience and there's kind of more of an exciting element to it, I think too, when you just kind of like happen upon some art that you see in the streets, maybe you're just in a new city or you're cruising around a corner and then you just kind of get hit with, you know, colors and art and makes you think and makes you wonder a little bit more versus a gallery where you're like, okay, you know you're going there to seek out and look for art. So I think it's two different types of way of experiencing our both which are great and have different purposes and, you know, getting art into people's homes is also exciting as well into personal collections and that's always a blessing and a humbling thing when you know that someone wants to live with your art and look at it every single day versus public art, you know, whatever's put out in the public, it's just who drives by as you experience it. I'm curious, when you have an idea, do you think when you first have that idea, oh, this would be really good in like a traditional kind of gallery or do you think of it as like this needs to be on a wall? Is that something you think in like the concept stage or like you actually start doing it? It's usually once I know what I'm creating for then the idea will kind of come together based on that. Like right now I'm working on a massive wall and it's for a project in Cincinnati in a few weeks and yeah, they send me photos and measurements of the wall and then once I look at it and I kind of do some research on the community and the neighborhoods and take inspiration from the history and then that kind of creates and molds the idea. Very cool. Thanks so much for coming back on Rise Up Tonight, everyone. Go check out at Greg Mike, you'll be able to see all these awesome projects. The visuals are fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on. Anyone who wants to check out the full conversation that we have, go to foxdiveatlanta.com and we'll be right back on Rise Up Tonight. Hey Atlanta, this is Zed Crack talking and you watching Rise Up Tonight presented by AT&T. It's like I don't get caught up in whatever the narrative is after four weeks of the daily narratives. You can almost write some of these narratives and live and die every week by the narratives because it sets up bad narratives. You can frame the narrative, you can write narratives, those are easy narratives. Here come some more narratives. Tori and I were two for two with our hot takes last week. Feeling pretty confident going into week four here. I am gonna talk about the defense tonight. Last week was a big growth moment I thought for this defense which keeps proving to themselves and to those outside the organization they can make those clutch plays and change the game on that side of the ball. I look forward to them doing that again this Sunday.  Of course, there'll be no DeSean Watson but Jacoby Bresset has been serviceable in his place. The Browns averaged 28 points a game so it's a tall task for Dean Pesin company but I think this Falcons defense is poised for another step forward. The past rush is already showing huge signs of improvement with the emergence of TQ Graham who by the way leads this team with five quarterback hits as well as Orlorenzo Carter, Michael Walker, Arnold Advocati and Aude Ogendegi. They're already on pace to double their 18 sacks from a season ago. They gave up more yards on the ground to Seattle than they would have liked but overall in the season they're really middle of the NFL pack as far as rush and past defense stats go. The key is stopping the Browns on the ground and they are pumped for that challenge so I'm excited to see it play out on Sunday and Tori I know you have something to say about that as well. Yeah I'm gonna stick with the run game for a minute and for my hot take I know I'm gonna take a lot of heat from my own alma mater saying this but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Cordero Patterson is gonna out game Nick Chubb on Sunday. I feel like I need to duck and cover saying that but regardless I think this is something I am really looking forward to seeing. Nick Chubb is the NFL's leading rusher. CP is third on that list. Nick Chubb is averaging 5.5 yards to carry. CP is averaging 6.1 yards to carry and I think there's going to be connection between these two players success in the run game and their respective team success on Sunday as well. And if Judevian Clowney and Miles Garrett don't play the Browns could really be turning to rookies in their place. So one more thing to hit on here. I think we can all agree that was the best collective performance that we've seen from this Atlanta offense. The balance and production between the run and the passing game obviously leading the way to a win. How does the offense really just keep that rolling against Cleveland? Yeah so Arthur Smith said something that I thought was very interesting this week when talking about the offense's production. He said Bo Minum doesn't really carry over from one week to the other which I found very interesting. The Falcons have to continue to create that offensive Bo Minum as soon as the ball is kicked off on Sunday and a new game begins. If the Falcons can start quick and seemingly carry that production forward that would be very promising for the offense overall especially running the ball. Again that's a huge storyline coming into this Sunday. Absolutely, well that'll do it for us. Thanks for staying up late with us here on Rise Up Tonight. For Tori McElhaney, I'm Kelly Price. We'll see you again back here next Friday to talk about what happens on Sunday with the Browns and the Falcons. Good night.


I can see stuff that I would do to this in later time and then make it a little different. Thank you. So over here on on YouTube we say we say our buys. Go check us out on ATD's poor people on Facebook, Thornton, Artist of Death on Instagram. I can't thank you for all those hearts. And always remember be kind to one another because you never know what somebody is going through. And here at Artist of Death Studios we do the test. So you don't have to. That's my part. Oh yeah, we did. Thanks y'all. Have an awesome night. Bye. I'll say bye. So that was the end of TikTok video. I just wanted to come back because our stuff crept out at... 2,500 viewers. Total viewers 14. I need some. I'm just showing everybody on the Facebook. Nope on the YouTube. How it looks. Hey Martin. Just wanted to show you guys how our dragon ended up. I know. Looks like I could put my hand right in there. But I'm not gonna. Well, also because that but I gotta get technical. I mean you have an airbrush. What was that one? Like a practice? Yeah. We need to get some rags. There were a stack up here but... Anyways you guys just wanted to show you how it turned out. We love it Clara. If you're still interested in this, Mianna. Let me see what it looks like on your camera. Here you go. It doesn't look as awesome as on your camera but it looks pretty great. So much depth, right? We love the depth. So thank you guys for watching. Clara hit me up about this. I said it looks better on yours. Anyways y'all. Y'all are amazing and we will see you guys tomorrow. Probably early because it's a football day and so yeah. If you kind of want another, you never know what someone's going through. And always remember we do the test. So you don't have to. Y'all are amazing. Love you guys forever. Bye.


Hi, I'm in a cloudy looking Norfolk and I'm about to break down how moguls this judge should be Olympics. Firstly, you have your turning which makes up 60% of the total score of moguls. That is based on your carving, your absorption and your upper body. Then you have the two jumps. You have a top air and a bottom air and the higher the degree of difficulty, the higher the danger but if you execute them well, the higher the reward. Finally, you have your speed and that is just a timed run of the course and that again is out of 20. Once you add up all of these aspects of mogul skiing, you end up with a score out of 100. The person who can combine each part of that perfectly and nail it and get the execution just right in such a fast-paced chaotic, no-relact sport is the one who'll come out on top.