Building your brand and maintaining your brand are two completely separate art forms and you have to learn how to do both if you want to have a successful career. It's a necessity and today we're going to talk about a very successful brand that's had a huge huge loss lately and how you can use this case study to understand how you can better navigate your own career. I bet you understand what's going on here. You've probably heard of it, but if not, check this clip out. So let's start here. Supreme's revenue declined over $38 million in the last fiscal year. Man, that's a lot of millions. That's a lot of millions, 38 of them to be exact. Yeah, 38. This is the news and you see it ringing off everywhere in forums on Reddit, Reddit, Instagram. Supreme is dead, Supreme is dead, Supreme is dead. Right? And you don't have to be an artist to be able to relate to this. You don't have to be a clothing brand to be able to relate to this. You don't have to be a public figure. Everybody can relate to this who has a brand, whether it's a company or some public figure, entertainment, artists, whatever. And this is a case study that's so important because it's about impact and culture.  It still does, I'd argue. But is it dead or not? We're going to talk from a technical standpoint, but then also share some of the opinions of the public at the same time. Because ultimately, I feel like we can all pull from this to build our brand. I meant to navigate for ourselves. So check this out. Let's just see what one person said about this. To me, Supreme is never dead. To me, Supreme is timeless. I mean, look at the hat. No. It can still be cool. It's just New York people get jaded. The world's a better place when Supreme is a good thing. And no shade, but all shade. But it's just like, I feel like now they're gravitating to more stealing ideas from underground artists. You'll see replicas. You'll see certain things that they do. And I feel like they lost the creative side of it. Box logos was heavy. So I want to say maybe that Supreme is dead. There's a complete montage of people saying one way or another, Supreme is dead or not. But there's a couple of things that I think are just factual. All right. One, we know that Supreme has impacted culture at large, right? But how did they really build their hype over the last half decade at least? Maybe full decade. Yeah, probably a full decade, actually. How did they build their hype in your opinion? They were early influencer marketers using artists, I think so. Because I know probably the most famous first tie-in was with Tyler the Creator and the Gulf Wing crew. But I feel like that did a really good job of collaborations and tapping into artists and using them like influencers. There we go. The collaborations specifically, right? Now, using artists to build hype is one thing. But the collaborations, when you start doing this with all these other companies and sometimes other artists, I feel like when you start to build hype, but then you also start to lose your own brand identity. And I do feel like just from what I've seen as a Supreme now is like the logo can pop up on anything. The name can pop up on anything. And that's cool and novel at first. But then at some point, it begins to deteriorate things. And we always see this with brand extension, where let's just go to something like Fubu back in the 90s. All right, first is the shirt or whatever. And then you get the hats and you have your core line. But then next thing you know, you popping up on rulers and mugs and anything, right? You're not protecting your brand. It's first you're making way more money than you ever have before, right? And yeah, people can access who want to be a part of that brand. But now that brand doesn't have a specific way of communicating itself because it's just on anything. I'm not saying Supreme got that loose with it. But still, you know, now what are you following unless it's just a hype, right? Are you buying into a specific identity? Or are you buying into a name and what that name means to you? I don't know. I think I will argue that that might be where some of the spark dotted, right? Because early Supreme was kind of like cheeky in that regard. Like I'm sure everybody remembers the pile of bricks that they sold. And it was like, okay, it was almost like them flexing their stature at that point, where like, yo, we're so popping that we can sell niggas a pile of bricks. You know what I'm saying? Makes me think of that Drake line where he was like, I could sell like your girl a blank disc or something. It's about to flex. But then as time went on, they stopped doing as cheeky of items like that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's kind of a bit more tamed now, which is I think one of the things that I might have heard somebody in this clip say, where they don't feel like they're as like risk-taking as they once were. But we know that's more than likely due to the fact that now they have more obligations. Because we've talked about this on like the artist side, right? Like you see a lot of artists and creators in the beginning tend to be a lot more creative and less restricted because they really don't have anybody to answer to with themselves.  I think that's that. I think they are. I know. Yeah. But now we're talking about that's a whole different, you know what I'm saying? That's a different type of restriction. You know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, because even the stuff I see now, I still think I do cool pieces like in terms of like how it looks and stuff. But like I haven't seen to your point that that item that makes me think of old Supreme.  Now it's kind of like, all right. Like what brand wouldn't collab with Supreme, you know what I'm saying? So it's that name. Yeah, exactly.  You got this brand. It's crazy. Like it was a testament to like how big of an impact that was starting to have in the culture. But now it's just like, all right, everybody clearly sees money in you. So of course you're going to be able to get these brands. That's exactly it. Right. They see money in you.  You go from the person on the come up and now it looks cool that you're even in a certain room. You're this underdog and people are happy to see that you made it. But then when people start to see you as an opportunity to make them look cool, right, they use you and eventually it starts to make you look less cool if you allow them to constantly use you in that way. It's like all these corporations trying to figure out, oh, how can we, I don't know, look like we care about X type of person, right? And then we all start using somebody who's in that category. And now it's like, are you legit now?  Yeah. Are you the representative of corporate pandering? Are you that sellout or whatever? Like that's where people can go with it. And it just doesn't feel as authentic. And then if you think about, well, actually, I want to start here before I go deeper into the brand management aspect. Because of what Supreme is, here's the beauty of impacting culture on this level.  You go through cycles and you're going to see this with whatever fashion house, not even just fashion houses, right? You're going to see the same thing with other brands in culture. If you look at champion starter, in the starter jackets, you're going to see all these waves. Because if anything, you're going to be able to rely on general nostalgia. And then you're going to be able to rely on sarcastic satirical nostalgia that ultimately still brings you back just as cool. Because those are the people who are trying to make fun of something and represent something. But then they end up inadvertently making it cool again anyway. Yeah, they made it hot on accident. Yeah. So as long as you make that impact, right, you're going to be able to be a reference point for a future joke or error reference that's going to bring you back to some level of prominence over again. Yeah. And we've seen it in that video a while. There were a couple of people in there that it's not dying. It represents something. I remember this. I remember that. So I was like, they're core fan bases strong enough at this point that they're going to always have that consistent customer base. And then, like you said, fashion moves and cycles. So it's very well that even if they experience a true fall-off, like 40, 50 years from now, some new influencer or artist would discover a vintage Supreme T and don it in the video. And just like that, they'd be right back. Right. I knew they weren't going away when I seen true religion come back. That's when I was like, all right, but true religion can come back, bro. Yeah. Right. Everybody's OK. Right. You know what I'm saying? Hey, man, we've seen all these different types of brands and I think, I mean, we've watched Air Force ones rise and then leave and come back. So in that sense, the brand dying or not. And no, right? Now, is it out of cycle? Probably in terms of its peak prominence and a period of being hot, just like an artist, right? You have your hot period, but if you made enough of an impact, or you can come back and you find that right hit, right? You find that right piece, you find that right song. It's there. So just buy your time and don't try to force it where you mess around and play yourself. And then you get put in time out even longer. Stop what you're doing. We've got to interrupt you to let you know you can win $20,000 by submitting your music to tolost.com slash collab for the crown. We're looking for the best songs and we're partner with tolost. So if you think you got some great music, if you think you got the goods, go to that site tolost.com slash collab for the crown. Check out the instructions for the contest. Win up to $20,000 and make sure you put in no label when you create your profile on tolost. So you can make sure you get three months completely free. That's tolost.com slash collab for the crown. And again, when you sign up, put in the code no label all one word and you will get three months completely free.  You got the talent. You just got to make sure you submit. Peace. Now, with that being said, I think again, still the management aspect of things. All right. Yeah, you can't oversaturate yourself. But this is a business at the end of the day. So on that aspect, are we talking about dead? Are we talking about fall off? You got to say yes from a business standpoint because as much as a core fan might be like, well, yeah, the brand still means something.  You know what I mean? Or I might have to file a bankruptcy or I might have to sell. Like, so we can't just look at the brand's relevance. And is that still there or not? We always do have to still at least consider from a business side what is dying or falling off look like. And on the inside, it might really feel like, hey, now we going through it right now because they're down 38 million dollars. And from an outside, a fan or a civilian or a consumer could just be like, well, that's not that much money. They made 500 something million, a 38 million. What's that? We're not just talking about your personal bank account. We're talking about business that has operational needs. You know what I mean? So it might be heard from that standpoint. And just like you, if you're dealing with issues with your brand, you're in a less hot period. You're like, oh snap, the money's not coming easily. I got to get my operations tighter. I was paying people and now it didn't seem like much. But now money's not coming in. I might have to fire buddy or X, Y, and Z. Let that blunt roller go. Got to let them go. Not to learn to roll your own or train somebody. I ain't going to say what I was going to say, but. So there are those two sides. And I think it's important to be aware of those two sides and not conflate them. You know that they're related. But you might say, okay, my brand's cool. My business isn't right because of the timing. Like my brand is out of cycle, but I do know my brand's good. I got real fans. I've checked these boxes. Now it's about how do I reintroduce, but how do I keep my business right in the meantime and not fall so prey to the business and personalize it so much to thinking it's holistic, like your brand and how people feel about you to the point that I mess up my brand for real. Chasing the business.  It's like literally all you can do. It's like some people, some brands and artists even, you know what I'm saying? Figure out how to maintain and they never figure out how to re-excite, but like they're still okay. They just never become as hot as they were.  And so I think there's just a little bit of what Supreme is going through is that, you know, they've switched demographics over the last like three, four years or so.   You become the biggest representation of that. And then you get bought out by one of the biggest fashion houses in the world, which is almost anti what your initial message was. Bingo. I'm saying that you built people around.  So I was like, hey, I can live imagine Louis Vuitton.   They were up for it. But the thing I don't know if they thought about was if the fan base would keep up, you know? And like, so that's what I think of when I see the $38 million. I would need to go do a little more research, but I wonder, I think it might just be a result of a lot of the high end brand changes, just like finally catching up, you know what I'm saying? Brad, like, I mean, I think that's a real observation to keep in mind because not only are you repping a counterculture, financially the counterculture has a certain tax bracket. And as you start to rise, and then you do these collaborations with these expensive brands, right? These higher end brands. Again, it's cool because you have like the conflict. It's like, oh, Supreme doesn't belong here in this conversation.  Oh snap. And now you wanted him? Yeah, you wanted him. You start sleeping around, all right? You start not wanting to come back home. All right, like what's going on? It's like that, what is that? Is it Brooklyn nights you ever seen? The Brooklyn nights where like Buddy in bed with, I forgot, oh girl, I think it's like sunshine or something. It's something.  Like, yeah, oh my God, bro, that's the classic. That's not crazy. It's red fox, bro, that junk is hilarious. But I'm about to show you that junk. But it's like that type of thing. Now you no longer, all right, are one of us because you've been in that for so long and you've adopted a lot of new fans in doing that.  And it's kind of ruining the brand for you, all right? So now you have some level of conflict there, that's just naturally going to happen. You know, you should say, well, it should just be a brought to brand. You don't pay attention to the other people. Like you just like what you like. Do you like the clothes or not? But that's not how people really operate, especially around brands like this and how they rise. And a lot of times it's the same way for like an artist or anything that's impacting culture. Usually when you impact culture is because you galvanize a certain part of culture, right? Meaning you're going to speak to a certain identity within that culture. So I mean, once you start bringing in other people in the room and those other people don't necessarily reflect the other people in the room, then I don't know. Like I don't want to say the clock is ticking, but the clock is ticking towards something, not the end, but some line of people being this grown up and feel like you either sold out, right?  Now you're doing it for validation and you don't have any other offerings outside, which leads to the last point of contention. I saw the video we played, which somebody talked about a lack of creativity, all right? So what does that look like? I'm not going to get too deep in the creativity direction because I don't follow every single supreme piece in the world in collaboration they've done.  Or are you really in a creative rut? And that's something that the designer, the artist, has to kind of reconcile. Yeah, and that seems to make the comment too, right? I need to get new designers. I know they were cycling through different designers for the last couple of years, like three, four years or so. It's also that, right? Like the brand is going through this change, going from being more street to more corporate, which I'm assuming means that the main designer, because I want to say the guy that started supreme was the main designer of it. So now you're talking about like, all right, now he has to not only step into this role, I don't know his background like that. I want to say he came straight from skate culture. So it's like, you know, you talk about this street wear guy who designed these pieces and now he has to go learn how to play the corporate game, you know what I'm saying? And not only the corporate game, but the corporate game would, you know, one of the largest, if not the largest lifestyle, you know what I'm saying, conglomerate in the world.  Now I have to go try to find different people that can maintain excitement and creativity within the house that I built. Designs and ideas aren't resonating while we're also slowly pulling away from our core customer base and the new customer base. It's like, the way I see it is like, the old customer base no longer identifies with the new pieces and the new customer base doesn't, either doesn't, I won't say, okay, I probably do care, but doesn't identify with the history of it. And I feel like it's a weird, like crossroad to be caught in, you know what I'm saying? Because you know about it, but you don't really respect it like that. You know it and respect it, but you can't afford when I'm going in my new direction. You know what I'm saying? Like, what do I do? Who do I go back to?  Because at first I thought, I was like, man, you know, I don't get why they wouldn't just like reuse their old playbook because their playbook could work today. Hey, let's make some outlandish items. So I also making sure that we curate some really well, put together pieces.  And I was like, I wonder why they don't do that. You know what I'm saying? It feels so obvious, but then I was like, ah, probably doesn't align with the new brand direction that the Louis Vuitton house wants them to go in. And you still have to have the minds that are able to curate the right type of outlandish to connect, right? I also think most of what I've seen Supreme wise has set it up for this moment, right? Now brands go through cycles in general, but it's set up to have deeper highs and lows in general as well, because one is more, it's coming from streetwear, it's this bridge, right? Which is less consistent than a whole overall luxury house, right? A high, high, high end that's like really established, by the way, not like just new high end, because those are still volatile anyway. You got to last a couple of not only seasons, but eras, but Supreme's logo. I argue that the logo means more than it designs. I will argue you would have been right up until like three, four years ago. I think that era kind of died where the logo was more important than the piece. And what's happened in the last few years? Shit, been going the wrong direction. And that's a part of the problem, because if your logo is the thing people say, oh, I care about the look and the design, but they're not going to care the same amount with the logo, right? Because that's branding, that's what it does, right? So if you need the logo for the designs to be really valuable, then the designs are still secondary. Where there are some brands that, it's really the design, you know, you might only see the logo, the name of it on the tag. So Supreme fans, they can argue that I care about the look and the, but come on, at the core, you bought into the identity of the brand, which again is why it hurts so much when you go through these evolutions, because it really has a meaning. And it's not a bad thing, by the way, it's just two different ways of relating. I really like the design, like straight up, and it's not that some people didn't come in because of design at all, right? But I really like the design as one side, I really like just what it means and what it represents and how I experienced it. Like with the artists, I really just like their music, right? Or I really like what this artist says, like what they're about overall in their music just happens to make it better. It's two different ways and you can fall off or have a disconnect on either side and that can take a brand up or it can take a brand down. Yeah, no, I definitely agree, man. I just think they're in a weird crossroad. I think another thing I just kind of thought about on the spot is a large part of their strategy was inserting them into whatever the cool part of music culture currently is. And at that time, music culture was a lot more linear versus like now it's like how do you truly identify the what artists like really whole culture right now when the little entire argument in music right now is that no artist controls culture other than like a Drake or something, right?  I don't know, but then it's like damn, so it's not as easy as it was in like 2013. It'd be like, okay, these four or five people clearly dominate culture right now. We can just go work for them. And so when it's such a large part of your strategy is built around that, I mean, you talk about that's 40% of the game plan going right there. And then, you know, they start off as a streetwear brand. And streetwear brands are typically supposed to be representative of like what? Like lower economic parts of the culture or wearing, right?  And it becomes a full fashion trend. Streetwear as a whole kind of left that, which is there's some people that observe that streetwear might be dying in some ways. Yeah, because this rebrand is like high-end streetwear.  I can get the high-end streetwear or I can get the regular streetwear. This, everybody can walk in the Walmart and get this, you know what I'm saying? Only niggas that got it or are stupid, gonna get it. So I got a 50-50 chance of being okay. See, that's what I don't like about this era, man.  But for the most part, it seems like everybody dresses alike in a different way. Yeah. See, before when people were dressing, I like it was like this trend and everybody was buying into this specific zeitgeist in a way.  Yeah. That's the weird part about it. You got, because now you look at it, you're seeing from kids all the way to adults dressing the same. You don't even have age group outfits anymore. Yeah. I kind of like that though.  Nah, I don't like it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, my kids ain't gonna be dressing cool. Not for a while at least, you know what I'm saying?  But I like the fact that knowing like, man, if I hit 58 and I want to walk out the house in an Adidas track suit, like, I'm gonna be okay. Like, nobody gonna judge me for it. But I was like, if my granddad today walked out the house in an Adidas track suit, I'm gonna look at him a little funny.  I'm like, play or play or whatever. Yeah, I'm like, granddad, you're not supposed to be dressing like that, bro. You know what I'm saying? Act your age. But I like to know that by the time. I get there, things are gonna be different. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate the comfortability and the freedom of it on our side, 100%. But at some point, you don't get the specific vibes anymore. Yeah, I think. It's all right. It's cultural globalism. Like, how you have cultural globalism, right? And that's affected everything. Yeah. It's fashion. We're just gonna use the term globalism or the breaking down of regions, all right? So you had regionalism within ages and other parts of cultures as well. Now that's gone. So in the same way, you would go back in the day and be like, oh, you have people in this side of the country, this side of the country, this side of the country have completely different music styles. And now it all starts to blend. And everybody's sounding like some version of the Migos, some version of Young Thug and everybody's doing, and people are doing drill and like, I don't know. Oklahoma and they got it from New York, like it's all molded together. So you don't get that clear distinction of where you from and culture. That's starting to happen with fashion. And I like stuff to be different, but appreciated versus is blended. That's my big thing. I would say, I don't think it's starting to happen. I think it's been happening for a while. Because I was actually thinking about that, as you said. Like I remember when I first went to college, and I learned to like phone posits where like a DMV thing, like niggas in the DMV love phone posits. And I've never really seen them like that. And to like, I think I probably seen them like the malls and stuff, but I've never really seen people wearing them until I moved to Virginia. And then, you know, that might be the last time I can think of a particular item being culturally relevant.  So I think a little bit more taught to Nigerian culture. They might be the closest to having something like that.  Yeah. But then it's like now because of the internet, like, because I remember seeing this, it was some fashion trend, like Gen Z fashion trend that was going viral early in the year. I can't remember what it was like. I think it was like something like a key ring or something. But it was like this kid had the idea to do it. And then he made a tic-tac about it. And by the end of the week, like whatever it was, the item was like selling out of like home deposition.  Yeah. But even then, it still took like a couple months. You know what I'm saying? Like now you talk about like, I could have an idea on Monday.  By Saturday, it's viral and kids all over the world are looking for how to make it.  That's what it is. It's a speed.  I really pushed that.  All right. You got people in the South wearing Tim's and things like that. Because of that, but that stuff only amplified and started to move faster and faster. And then that move, globalism increased. And like I said, operations for companies, that fast fashion thing is, it's crazy. Same, bro. Fast, fast enough, everybody. Because now it's like, man, I not only have to have a good idea, which is most of the battle, I have to now also be quicker to stabilizing the process of continually creating that good idea. And what does that mean for an artist? That's a good question, man.  What does that mean for an artist? That means that it's not about who has the good idea or the talent first. It's about who can consistently maintain the environment to keep showcasing that talent. I like that. You know what I'm saying? Exhibit A would be somebody like a young thug. Yeah, great example. Where people started to do a lot of that similar style, but and he didn't go as high as quickly as some people wanted because he took some steps back, but he was able to keep getting out there with a consistent platform. And then when it hit, it hit, right? Versus, oh yeah, people saw you making a hot little song, everybody take the style, and then we never see you again. And that's when it's a problem. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's a great example. Because I've told artists before, man. I've been like, there is a 90% chance that there is another artist out there that sounds exactly like you do. And I'm not even talking about just sonically. Like there are literally some people out there who sound just like you like vocal tonality, all that like it'd be Spider-Man meme if y'all met each other. And so if you think about that, well, hey, there are two artists who like to rap about love. They both have great vocal styles. They both have great songwriting abilities, but they literally damn they sound identical. The race to being successful comes down to two things, right? It comes down to like I said, one, who can maintain long enough to be discovered by a majority of people? And then of course it comes down to who do majority of people discover first? Because the person that gets discovered second is going to get accused of buying the other person. Thanks. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like you're in this weird race against an invisible person that you don't know until it's too late. And then that's when you see the comments of artists like, oh man, I made a song just like that. He must have stole my song. They're like, yo bro took my whole style. I've been rapping like this since 2016.  But what more than likely happened is there was another person with the same idea, same amount of drive, ambition, hustle, with all the other stuff you could throw into it. But they made one move smarter than you that allowed them to be perceived as that thing first. And then the whole tide just started to flip to their side. And then like I said, if you're the second person, everybody just assumes you copy in the person that they learned about first. And so I think that's the issue that the music art is definitely, if you don't know you're dealing with it, you're definitely dealing with it. You know what I'm saying? Because artists tend to stand their own bubble. So to them, they are the only one that sounds like this or is doing this. And then to music consumers or people in the music business, you're like, nah, you like the eighth motherfucker? Today I don't heard that sounds like this, you know what I'm saying? And then to your point, yeah, I think fast fashion definitely brought that trend into fashion because it's literally the same thing. Like, all right, it's not about who has the idea. First is who can put the idea out and get it to the most amount of people the fastest.  What I think about when I hear this is for artists, many people, but especially for artists, don't be DaVinci. Okay. You know what I mean by that? No, I don't. Now DaVinci was a genius, right? Historically, they say he invented parachutes. He basically invented some version of an airplane. He made parachutes. A diving suit, huh? He made parachutes. Yeah, DaVinci was so prolific as an artist, as a scientist, like as an inventor as a whole. He's done all these things. Yet at the same time, DaVinci, from what I understand to be true, had almost zero impact on history in the way he should have based on his inventions. Why is that? Because he invented all these things, right? But he didn't influence people with these things. Yeah. People found his inventions after the effect. So imagine if you invented the airplane, but then, I don't know, these other guys end up inventing the airplane as well. People start flying airplanes, and then we're going through, I'm just making this part up. This is not what actually happened, so don't try to get all historical on me, people, and be like, this is not exactly, but for a scenario, we're going through some old files or whatever, and then we find out, oh shit, this man, Jacory invented an airplane like 30 years before the airplane came out. Crazy. It was like, technically, did you do it first? Yes. But because we never even knew you did it, you had zero impact on the outcome of the actual history. Yeah, I agree. And the, I don't think it's sad, but it might be sad to some people. So the sad reality is, people don't care. Of course not. To your point, people care about like, all right, where do I get the most benefit from in this acknowledgement? Probably acknowledging the side of it that everybody else already knows about. And it's also conforming to, versus me trying to be this new voice and speak up for Jacory in this case. It's like, oh, I could go out and fight the case for him, or I could just step to the side of like, hey man, they're playing that the right brother made. That was all right with me, you know what I'm saying? And then just, like you said, it's a cultural thing. I can talk to these people about it. They care about this. They don't really care about that. And because nobody cares about that part, because we've all heard something creative and something claimed to be the first to do something. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sure our generation isn't the first to go through that. I mean, we've seen Lil' Richard talk about that for years, but here's the difference. Lil' Richard did something and truly influenced people, and he was actually the beginning of a tree. Yeah. It's a whole another thing for you to be, let's just say you're the seed over here, but there's a whole another tree that grows over there. And this stuff, this is not fruit of your labor. It might be the same seed, but it's not your seed, and someone else grew a full-blown tree, and your seed isn't even nourished, because you didn't get the attention. So you actually do not have an influence. It doesn't matter that you did it first, because we got here without your influence. Yeah, that's a good point actually. You don't get attention, that's what it looks like. It's like I saw you growing that tree over there the whole time, you know, but like you said... No, I didn't see you growing that tree.  Actually, yeah, that's a good point, yeah. And that's the example, yeah. So it's like, oh man, like, because even, this was funny when people make it hit, it's like when you get there, you understand it. And you're like, oh, it makes sense to me that you also learned about apple trees and started, you know, growing apple trees. Like I couldn't be the only person in the world that thought that growing this apple tree would be a good idea, but for whatever reason, motherfuckers like my apple tree, man. I ain't about to stop what I'm doing just because you was the first one to plant the seed on the block. Like that's crazy. Like one, you got the prude out of me. Yep. And two, nobody cares. Exactly. Let's leave it right there. That's the end of another episode. Drop it in comments.  Peace y'all. Peace.


I have a friend who just got fired from his job at the Department of Transportation for taking work supplies home with him. I never would have thought he was the type, but the last time I went over to his apartment, all the signs were there. Richard Feynman once said, the whole universe is in a glass of wine, gesturing to the way a single object can contain a fractal representation of a much larger system that created it. Taking a similar tack, we're going to start here with a glass of wine.  If you don't watch how it's made, you should, particularly this episode about the mass manufacture of wine glasses.  But if you think about it, even if every single one of those tens of thousands of glasses were painstakingly blown and shaped manually by expert craftsmen, the amount of labor required to create them would pale in comparison to the amount of labor that will be expended to care for each of them over their lifetimes. You make a glass once, but unless you're very rich or very clumsy, you wash it a thousand times. Glass like glass washing is an essential part of what it means to have and use technology. Every tool, every piece of furniture, every building, road, farm, even parks and forests require continuous effort and investment to keep them fit for purpose. It's painfully obvious how much work goes into upkeep whenever we're the ones doing that work, around two hours every day for the average person. Washing the dishes, taking out the trash, vacuuming, cleaning the toilet, folding laundry and so on occupy about 8% of most people's lives. And even the Marie Kondo's of the world who have a particular love of tidying up occasionally find that they simply don't have enough time or energy to do all of it. That's just maintaining our households and ourselves. The effort required to keep glass office buildings or sidewalks in working order is truly staggering to consider. But weirdly, while it's hard to avoid a glimpse here and there of someone in the high-vis vest keeping these communal spaces operational, most of the maintenance work poured into civilization is invisible to our everyday experience. Servers, electrical panels, heaters, ducts, vacuum cleaners, irrigation controls, not to mention water purification plants and power stations. Most of the stuff that keeps the lights on, both literally and figuratively, is stuffed into utility closets, back rooms, basements, sometimes remote locations, out of sight and out of mind. The efforts of the people who keep those utterly essential technologies running are also hidden from view. Some dressed in coveralls and a tool belt carrying a pipe wrench might wander through your building's lobby before quietly opening a door to the boiler room and closing it behind them so you don't have to listen to them soldering new pipes together.  If not for those anxiety-inducing YouTube videos, I might never have even thought about the guy who has to climb a radio tower to change out the light bulb at the top. There's a massive army of people who scrub oil and speck replace and patch the technology that we rely on every day without even thinking about it. Or them. Unless something's out of order. If you recall episode 182, Fred Brooks's off-reference The Mythical Man Month posits that the best sort of technology becomes an extension of the user's will, to the point that the device itself vanishes. You don't think about dragging a plastic object across a table top until a glowing rectangle displays a patch of white pixels over another patch of blue pixels and then squeezing a spring until you trigger a switch, you think subscribe to Patreon. But if that switch doesn't trigger for some reason, suddenly that object emerges from the background and registers as a thing unto itself. You become aware of its construction and operation, all the little details and components that make it into a thing that's usually well suited for clicking. Similarly, the technology that works behind the scenes to deliver electricity, water, mail, internet service and so on becomes an extension of our will when it's working properly, and the people who work behind the scenes to keep all the technology functioning tend to escape our notice until it stops working for whatever reason, when we suddenly find that we can't do the thing we intended because the stuff and people that make it possible aren't working right now. As an aside, this is one reason that strikes and similar labor actions can be so effective at winning benefits for workers. When a company is firing on all cylinders, the people who are working there can start to seem like cogs in a money making machine that becomes an invisible extension of the will of management. When they stop working in that capacity, that illusion vanishes and it's easier to see them as individuals whose synchronized efforts are all necessary to make that machine function. The cognitive invisibility field that spreads over functional technology definitely works on infrastructure, stuff like water, electricity and internet service, masking all the maintenance behind the scenes that keeps those utilities running from our consideration. That blind spot means us to simultaneously overestimate the potential severity of disasters and underestimate the work necessary to keep things functional on a daily basis. Those of us who remember Y2K probably recall the widespread anxiety as 1999 came to a close. Journalists and tech experts raised the alarm for possible failures ranging from phone system crashes to airplane crashes to erroneous nuclear launches, prompting all sorts of historical disaster prepping and forecast of doom. When New Year's Day came, everyone held their breaths, and while there were a few bugs here and there, the predicted apocalypse failed to manifest, leading to a round of ribbing and jokes at the expense of those who had been worried about it. The thing is, Y2K marked what technology theorists Graham and Thrift describe as the largest concerted repair operation in human history. A huge international effort to identify and mitigate the worst IT and communication issues that might well have occurred without a ton of diligent work, millions of man hours dedicated to meticulous inspection, testing, patching, and workarounds. Unfortunately, those efforts went largely unappreciated. Most folks remember Y2K as a nothing burger, not a triumph of hard work and preparation, and went forward having learned the wrong lesson that when experts warn about potential globe-spanning disasters, no action is necessary because there's probably nothing to worry about. On the flip side, because the repair and maintenance that happens around us all the time is so invisible, we tend to underestimate the robustness of highly technological societies when something important stops working, what Joseph Convitts calls the myth of terrible vulnerability. If you're not one of the folks who regularly works in and around infrastructure or other essential tech, you might think of those systems as delicate monoliths of meticulously engineered functionality, fragile clockwork that would suffer immediate irreparable failure if not treated with the utmost care at all times. But if you talk to the folks who have to keep the things running, you're likely to get an earful about how stuff is failing all the time, how that facade of continuous functionality is only maintained by heroic efforts of people behind the scenes to keep the wheels on. You might think that the collapse of the World Trade Center towers on 9-11 would have been disastrous for the Lehman Brothers investment firm, as their Manhattan data center was part of the rubble at ground zero. It seems reasonable that dropping a pair of skyscrapers onto the servers containing the digital records of all their financial transactions will create a cascade of failures and disruptions that would also destroy the company and the institutions that relied on it. But massive data loss is just one of the problems IT guys have to deal with on a regular basis. While fleeing down the stairs, their chief technical officer sent a text message that switched the company over to a remote backup server in Jersey and the day after the collapse, Lehman Brothers was operational and trading stocks with all its data intact. For many, 9-11 was an unfathomably destructive hammer blow to one of the most sophisticated cities on earth, a cataclysm that shook everything we thought we knew about the world to its core. For Lehman Brothers IT department, it was Tuesday. Then some other stuff happened. So it seems we have a bit of a blind spot for the work necessary to keep things running. Of course, making new stuff is fun and exciting. It makes some intuitive sense that we'd have more mental bandwidth for the innovation, development, and production of technologies that have never existed than for the upkeep of existing things. But it's worth noting that that bias ultimately comes from a position of entitlement. Because so much of the technology we rely on is maintained and taken care of in utility closets and basements by largely invisible maintainers, we have the luxury of being allowed to forget that it exists. Of letting it fade into the background while we lionize the new-fangled stuff. Jiggle a handle and clear drinkable water starts flowing out of a tap. No need to consider the legion of machinery and labor that made this miracle possible. I can just sit here, sip, and marvel at the much celebrated brilliance of designers and architects dreaming up the next big thing. That's not true for everyone. It's hard to imagine overlooking the nitty gritty details of infrastructure necessary to supply internet in Kolkata or electricity in Nigeria. That intrusive awareness of the technology that has failed to get out of the way is just a fact of life in places where the technology is unreliable or too patchwork and gerry-rigged to ignore. Most of us are just lucky enough to live in places where we can take it for granted. Well, I say lucky, but the degree to which we are insulated from repair and maintenance activities denies us an invaluable resource for understanding both the world we live in and how we live in it. Watching things wear out, break down, and fail, or personally putting in the effort necessary to prevent those failures, teaches us how those things work and how things work in general. At a level of detail we'd never have access to if we could just treat every technology we interact with like a black box. You might read extensively about the theory and design of refrigerators, but spending an hour examining, fixing, maintaining, and tuning a fridge will still teach you tons of important stuff about materials, design, ergonomics, thermodynamics, failure modes, not to mention dozens of ways fridges can suck and potentially might be improved. If a refrigerator only ever appears to you as a monolithic device, always operational, never needing any upkeep, always inconspicuously keeping your next dinner cold until you throw the whole thing out and get a new one, you'll never be able to see it as a technician or custodian might see it. 22 stainless steel sheet metal screws. 36 feet of coiled copper wire. A vacuum-formed PVC liner. The appearance of this collection of corroding, loosening, wearing, aging components as a single cohesive product is a tidy illusion encouraged by the manufacturer. And so long as that illusion remains in place, there are all sorts of powerful ways of thinking about them that you simply won't be able to access where the raw materials came from. What sort of effort was necessary to dig them out of the ground and press them into useful shapes? How to potentially modify or swap one of them out to improve the system? What will happen to them when they wear out or when the system inevitably wears out past the point of usefulness? And that's the real punchline of maintenance. Eventually, our greatest inventions and most enduring technologies will succumb to the inexorable grinding machine of entropy worn down by the same forces that ultimately wear down everything, including us. The work that goes into holding off that end date, letting things go a little bit longer than they would if nobody were to invest the energy necessary to sustain them is really the most fundamental business of life itself. Maybe minimizing hiding or ignoring that work is really just a feeble attempt to avoid thinking about the fate that awaits us all. But it's solely by the massive and continuous effort to dedicated maintenance, repair, and care that the world we've created persists in any capacity and devaluing or overlooking that work for whatever reason isn't just disrespectful. It's short-sighted. Whether you're talking about refrigerators, servers, infrastructure, or your own body, if you don't schedule maintenance, your equipment will schedule it for you. Something to reflect on the next time you find yourself rumbling about having to do the dishes. What sort of essential maintenance work do you find people overlooking? Please leave a comment below and let me know what you think. Thank you very much for watching. Don't forget to blah, blah, subscribe, blah, share and don't stop thunking.


Good morning everyone. I'm the PGA of America's Julius Mason. I'd like to thank you very much for joining us today at whistling straights For a Ryder Cup captain's news conference as you get settled in Please sit back relax and enjoy the history tradition Excitement and drama that is the Ryder Cup the 43rd edition of golf's greatest team event is only one year away now Ladies and gentlemen, and it will be played September 25 to 27 in 2020 So let's get to it and meet the captain's first He is a three-time major champion and has won 15 times on the European tour and on 15 other occasions Around the world, please welcome from Dublin, Ireland, Padreck Harrington Next he is a 12-time winner on the PGA tour and five-time winner on the PGA tour champions Including two majors, please welcome from Madison, Wisconsin, Steve Strikker Captain Harrington, let's go ahead and begin with you. Good early morning and welcome to whistling straights here in Kohler, Wisconsin The last time these two teams gathered it was almost exactly one year ago today just outside Paris at Ligolf National where Europe beat Team USA 17 and a half to 10 and a half In a nutshell What worked and can you talk about the challenges that captain might face playing in a way match Versus a home match. So you really want me to give you all the answers of what worked. We have about plenty of time for that You know it was We had a good team. There's no doubt about it. Thomas is a good captain. He was blessed with Probably one of the better the best teams we've had in terms of world rankings There was a lot of quality in the team They came together very well Obviously we lost on Friday morning 3-1, which was a big setback to us, but we had Some nice balance in that team We stuck to our guns and we came through on Friday afternoon, which was which huge for our team, you know That Friday afternoon session obviously You know, it's tough to lose one session 3-1, but to come back in the afternoon just get instilled the confidence to go on with with the plan I think Paris National No doubt suited the European game Stu suit our style of play So yeah, you know after getting the advantage back home advantage It carried on from there as you can see I'm really trying to avoid anything that actually gives away What exactly happened behind the scenes? But yeah, it was I've got to say, you know, it was it was really a quality team and Home match versus in a way match. Oh, I think There's a substantial difference. It's I would advocate even too much of a difference between home and away Clearly in Europe we get to set the golf course up and we set it up Every way we can to suit our players and in the States, we've seen that as well You know where the golf course are set up to be most advantageous for the home team I think It's obviously not going to happen probably in my lifetime But 40 50 years sit down the road when the right of cup is still going along It will probably be it probably be best to have a neutral setup where there is no Setting up a golf course as we did in Europe. So that was very tight off the tee and it made it a real difficult You know where par was a good score Whereas if you went back to Hazel team, it was more of a birdie fest Which you know suit that the statisticians have got involved and tell us what suits each team. So Yeah, possibly down the road. It's going to be a it's going to be more of a neutral setup Thankfully here at wisdom straights. This is a much more natural golf course So I'm I'm interested to see down the road what what Steve has in store But it doesn't look like you could do a lot with this golf course It's just a as much as it was obviously designed and built there It looks like it's just in a natural setting all its life and and it's going to present its way even the weather could Could be very Changeable the week of the ride a cup next year So in many ways, this is a golf course that is is just going to test the players on its own merits Captain Stryker the US team didn't get the results you wanted in Paris And on top of that the US has only won three of the last ten rider cups. Does it concern you that? History really isn't on your side Yeah, it does concern us and and But to Pottery's point there. They they had a great team this last time in Paris. They they outplayed us We had a difficult time with the golf course And yeah, you know the the the last few rider cups haven't gone really the way That we have liked but you know for us, it's all about you know for me. Anyways, it's about moving forward and This next team is probably going to be the first time these 12 individuals You know, we'll probably have some new guys on the team. It'll be the first time these 12 individuals will be together So it's you know for me, it's about moving forward learning from the past a little bit taken some of the things that We haven't done so well in And then trying to apply that to this next time and next year and and it's about playing better you know bottom line is they they they played great and they outplayed us and and You know, we're gonna have to come and be ready and Make the putts that we need to and hit the key shots down the stretch that we need to hit to come out on top Very good. Patrick, you've played on six rudder cup teams and you were a vice captain Three times wearing your vice captain cap. What were you able to take away from from Paris and from? Thomas's captaincy You learn a lot more as a vice captain than you do as a player player. It's startling how I Suppose insular we are as players. We it's all about getting your own game ready to do what you need to do And I'm as professional golfers were self-managed. So it really is all about us as we go along When you become a vice captain you start seeing a lot more and because of that you obviously clearly learn a lot more What's the demands of of the players and how to? Fit them together and manage all the different personalities in a team. So, yeah, the vice captains For me, that's that's where you learn the most It's nice nice to being a player and all that but it's and I suppose when you're a player You see different styles of captaincy that you like and you don't like and what I had six different captains and They all had different. I had a couple of captains who were very much time around the shoulder You know encouraging you and believing in you. I I'd I remember with a I remember with Bernard Langer, which he sat there at the The evening meeting after the first day's play and he's nearly the first words out at the at the Meeting was and it was at a boardroom table as well And he turns around says now we'll have nobody laying up into the hazard on number five tomorrow I was the only one who had laid up into the hazard that day So yeah, Bernard was at Bernard would be on the tease telling you what clubs to hit into the par 3s and things like that So just there's so many different styles of captaincy. You do see that and I don't believe I'm going to be one or the other. I hopefully would be a mixture of most But then as vice-captain you tend to learn a lot about the the tactics that go in behind that and it is difficult to Steve would know this from be from being there as well. It's incredibly difficult to put a team out as You know mid-morning late morning on Friday When the guys have only played maybe 14 holes a golf and you have to put a team out for the afternoon And sometimes you put players out who end up losing their morning match and sometimes you drop players who've won the morning match and and clearly you get second-guest on your team selection, but You know oftentimes people don't realize those teams have to beside it And there's so many factors that go into it that Literally being the vice-captain you do get to sit there and be part of that decision-making And that's really what I believe that's going to help me the most has been a cap to be a captain Thank you. Similarly Steve.  Yeah I think Podrick nailed it all on the head. It's you'll learn a lot You know, let's just put it that way you you get the behind-the-scenes look at at What it takes to to lead a team and you watch these captains and you you pick out your Favorite things or your least favorite things about every captain you see what works with players and you it kind of shapes you as a captain I think and Yeah, you learn a lot and you learn how much there is and what goes into it and It's much easier Being a player because you can you can just worry about yourself worry about your game And and get ready for the team and get ready for your partner But when it becomes time to make some of these decisions like you said when you when you got to put a team out In the afternoon, you know, you can see all the assistant captains and the captains You know literally running to a corner to try to figure it out to try to make sure that you're gonna do the right thing so It's it's an interesting job. It's a fun job and You know, we look forward to it and and but you do you learn a lot as you go along Patrick you played in all three PGA championships here at Whistling Street, so you're very familiar with this venue Can you talk about what you think it might shape up as as a writer-cut venue? I Think it'd be a great venue for the writer-cup. I think it's a dramatic golf course And you know, we need that in the writer-cup the writer-cup's probably the most exciting golf event You know in the game One of the biggest sporting events, but certainly the most exciting in golf and you know, you needed dramatic golf course that lends itself to Spectacular play as well as some disastrous play You know, that's what match play is about and this is the three PGA's I played Mostly I remember is the variability of the golf course you Weather-wise You know change the direction of wind can this you know Massively change how a whole plays moving a tee box forward or back and change the whole character of holes So yeah, it's an ideal match play golf course. I think people will enjoy Watching match play on this course. I think it's it will really does Lend itself to that exciting play Steve Americans are 0 for 3 at PGA championships at Whistling Strait's Do the whispers about Whistling Strait's favoring the European team cause you any concern at all You're sure bringing up a lot of negatives here, Julius You know I got yeah, yeah, it concerns us when we look out and and I don't know if you brought this weather today or Or what but hopefully we have nice nice sunny 75 degree days next next year at this time But yeah, you know you when you look out here it feels it has the feel of Does it not over there in Ireland does it it looks like an Irish day? Yeah, yeah But I the whole setting you know next to Lake Michigan. It looks like We could be overseas somewhere for sure, but It looks like an Irish summer stay out there But it's yeah, it concerns us and You know we'll It's a great venue. We're gonna have an unbelievable Support crowd here The the atmosphere should be much like hazel teen or even more so the the Wisconsin people You know from what I understand are Very excited to have this event here there It's gonna be it's gonna be an exciting time here and you know the courses is is Beautiful, it's it's our one of our best courses in the state of Wisconsin and they have the Kohler people here Herbs a friend of mine David and Nina and Just to to be able to play it here is really a special treat for all of us and The state is gonna show up big time and we're gonna have the crowd on our side So hopefully that'll deter from what what it really looks like it, you know out there as far as a Irish setting, but You know, it's we're looking forward to it. Thank you Patrick take a look at this slide which reflects European-born winners over the last year Some names are familiar to us some are not but could you take a look at that and tell us what brings a smile to your face? Shay Larry for sure Look Clearly we've a nice array of players winning there just some young players coming through and I think Steve Said about his own team There does feel like there's a changing at a guard coming in some ways There's there's a lot of young players that I have to get to know coming through I Do like the fact on the right-hand side of the slide We have a solid base there that to work off and you'd expect most of those guys to be in the team but there will be You know three or four five rookies in the team new guys fresh faces That's just the the world of golf what's coming through and there, you know As I always say the nine guys who qualified for my team It doesn't matter who they are if they've qualified they've played well enough to be there They deserve to be there They're they're the nine best form informed players and we can work around those nine guys They're they're the ones I want in the team so Doesn't really matter once you get those nine guys They are going to be the nine best players we have at that stage So, you know you would like to fill it with the big the old experience guys there on the right-hand side But you're you're comfortable with the younger guys also coming into the team So speaking of your team you're only two weeks into the European points standings as you can see on this next screen popping up here Any thoughts any surprises as you look at this The surprises I'm looking at and I have looked at it You know I told myself just don't look at the points like it's it's a full year away And as vice captain again the experience you get as vice captain you start to get involved in the Looking at players and what the captain is feeling and during the course of the the last three months You pick a new team every week if you're looking at so This is very early doors. Yes. I have looked at it I said I wouldn't and I will continue to look at it and people will continue to remind me of it But you know as I said if any of these players and you know like Victor Perez there is a young guy just starting off He's right up there if he qualifies If he holds on to that position for the the next 12 months, he really deserves to be there That's a that's going to be a quality performance because the pressure is on him So I'm happy with any rookie who makes it into my team You know they're the ones especially at this stage if they if they do it for a full year It means they have the experience of handling the pressure and you're going to be Looking forward to that type of player making the team But the fact of the matter is when you you know we have statisticians and they tell us who's got what chance of making the team and It's it's amazing. It's a pretty slim chance for most people in the end of the day because only nine people qualify automatically So even even for good players, it's you know for a lot of good players It's it's down to you know, maybe a one and twenty chance of one and ten chance of making the team. So This will change over time But I'm comfortable with a few rookies making my team for sure. Thank you Steve same question as you can see here's a list of winners over the past year from us born players I'm kind of guessing you like the way the majors played out this year Yeah, you know again, it's it's so early in the deal We were a year away, you know 11 months away from making our picks and the guys finalized on the team and But yeah, you got some great great younger players that have starting to prove themselves like a Patrick Cantley and You know watching Cameron champ do what he did this last week was really impressive down the stretch that last hole and Yeah, you know, you know, we're gonna have the the mainstays. I'm sure as well, you know the Dustin Johnson's the Kepka You know Ricky Fowler Xander Schoffley, you know who's been playing really well. So Again, you just keep looking at it, you know, you look at it I get those emails from you on a weekly basis to show me the The point system and and how everybody's playing and but I I love watching golf. I love watching the guys Compete and so I I'll keep a good eye on everybody and see how they're playing and to Potteryx point, you know if they make in make it in the top eight they deserve to be there and then it's up to us to to To pick those last four guys and and here you see that list there, too, you know, Tony Fee now pulling up the eighth spot and Gary Woodland had a great year web Simpson's been really steady and You know, obviously Tiger's been right in there and and coming off of knee surgery So, you know anticipation for him to play well and keep keep coming back is is all interesting for all of us to watch and see how he does and You know Kisner another good match play guy, so there's a lot of good names on that list and Justin Thomas down there you expect him and Patrick Reed. I mean you look up and down that list There's a lot of a lot of great names there with a lot of experience that we'd love to have on the team Steve Pottery, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen We're happy to go to Q&A right now if you do have a question Please raise your hand high and wave down a couple of wireless microphones that are floating around out there If we can get a microphone over here in the aisle Ready go Steve just can you talk about the broader implications of hosting this event here in, Wisconsin? Even outside of golf is a great Wisconsin native what what it means to to you as a native here and to this state to be able To host an event to this magnitude. Yeah, I mean it first started off as major championships, right? You know, we've had the PGA here three times We had the US open over at Aaron Hills and and this is the ultimate here to have Really the ultimate Event in the game of golf To be here at whistling straights in, Wisconsin You know, it's just really from everybody I talked to the anticipation the excitement level is through the roof And and it's no different for me either, you know, I'm very excited to to have this opportunity to To be here in my home state to try to help this team and lead this team to to try to win that cup back and Yeah, it's a great treat for all of us and I know the colder people Will will treat us unbelievably they already have and we look forward to To being here and getting in the ball rolling, you know, it'll be here before we know it, but we're all We're all super excited Question over here This question is for Patrick. I think one of the first big decisions you had to make was how many captain's picks Your team would have and you chose to go down from four to three which in theory Could prevent you from taking some veteran when you make your picks The way Thomas did in Paris. I was just curious to hear the logic behind that choice The logic is basically You anybody you pick is under pressure more pressure more stress than a player who is qualified So I wanted The way I looked at it is the ninth guy How often would you skip the ninth guy in the rankings and pick four people after him? Not very often it's not something that you would probably Do you'd normally pick the ninth guy and why pick him and put them under pressure? Why not just let him qualify into the team let him feel like he's There on his own merits. No second guessing no judging That would be my thought on it Question might over here, please if both of you could talk to being your rookie Experiences when you were first on a team and what that is like and what you can bring to rookies who are going to be on this Team because obviously both of these teams are going to have some rookies on them Steve you want to hit that first? Yeah, my rookie experience was at Valhalla 2008 Paul Azinger was the captain We went on to win there. It was it was a great experience Paul did a wonderful job You know I learned a lot from You know looking back at it today. I learned a lot from what he did there and You know he came up with a system that we we've bought into and and He was a really good captain the players the fans Responded to the fans there that week the the crowds there of a hollow were unbelievable and Yeah, it's a nerve-wracking time. I'm sure you're your rookie time on the Ryder Cup too is is It's a nervous time. You don't know what to expect.  You know it's not it's so nerve-wracking that it's not fun But after it's done and and after it's all over with you're like that was fun you know it's it's you know it drives you to make that team again and keeps you going to want to be on these teams Yeah, my rookie experience be 99 in Brookline Still goes down as probably the most electrifying week. I've ever had in the golf course. I can't it was just so exciting The the atmosphere the buzz of it. It was quite a contentious one in Brookline, but it was in Boston So I had a lot of Irish support. So It was fantastic for me. I I only just qualified in the previous two weeks by finish the second and second the whole of put to get into it I was playing great Just everything about that Ryder Cup about a result was was just spectacular. I actually on the Sunday I beat Mark Amira and it looked like I'd won the Ryder Cup at that stage because Posey was five up or something like that. So once we had that point in the back, which I kind of I wasn't obviously Following the leaderboards. I assumed that so I Literally I did an interview on the back of a gene thinking I got the winning point and I Maybe five minutes later and it was literally five minutes later I'm sitting just about to sit down or like does sat down on the 17 green when Justin Leonard hold that poor and It was all taken away. So the highs and lows were exceptional. You'd never see it in any other Event like it and that's why we love the Ryder Cup. I think that's why people Not just golf fans love the Ryder Cup. I think that's why sports fans love the Ryder Cup. It's it's dramatic It's citing it. It goes the ebbs and flows in it There's just nothing quite like if you get the route for your home country your home continent Really, it's it's spectacular. And you know once you play one, you'd never want to miss out in another one And and I had some great experiences afterwards And you know, we'd a lovely Ryder Cup in 2006 when we won in Ireland because it was in my home stage a bit Like Steve going this year, you know, I Like the Irish one was really nice because we won we won comfortably in the end of the day I prefer the ones that are tight and there's a bit more excitement in it. And so Well, I think you find every time you play a Ryder Cup as it throws up something They're a match I can exciting. It really is it never ceases to keep giving Very good question Steve we're used to you being pretty stoic on the golf course right over here Steve You're we're used to you being pretty stoic on the golf course, but on the hype video We saw a couple of fist pumps there out of you. Will we see that guy again? Who is that guy? I Think I pulled a hamstring on one of those I don't know if I can do that again anymore, but you know, I don't know, you know, this this this event It brings out some crazy emotions, you know in you and as a player and even as an assistant captain When I've been a part of some of these teams so yeah, it's hard to say especially here in my home state and and But you know, I try to keep it under the radar and low-key, but you never know but it we're sure looking forward to it It's it's the eight or nine months since they announced me as captain is flown by and I'm sure this next year We'll fly by too and we'll be here before we know it Very good question over here, please Steve yeah, you as you just said it's been about eight months since they announced you in Milwaukee Can you tell us what the first eight months have been like? What have you done to sort of start the preparations for next year and maybe Padre can address that as well since he's been named Yeah, it's it's it's not it hasn't been too overwhelming to start with you know a lot of little things, you know Designing bags, you know looking at clothes. We come we've come up here a couple of times It's just the constant, you know thinking about it really which is which is really cool it would need for me is trying to come up with ways to Make sure that I have everything ready, you know and and have the team engaged and You know you just try to think about every little thing that you can do and and make it a special week for these players Because it is a special week. It's it's a week out of the year that if you make the team it's It it means a lot, you know, you build some great relationships during the week the team camaraderie is Is unbelievable. It's just one of those weeks that you want to be a part of and you want to make sure that I Do everything that I can do to make sure that those guys have a great week So You know, it's just the constant thinking about it and now, you know, we're a year out and now it becomes more about You know, who's who who we looking at to play, you know, what what what's the team going to look like? But yeah, it's been fun constantly trying to think about it and take things from other captains other other assistant captains talk to a ton of people I've been just gathering a lot of information and Going from there Patrick. Yeah, I quite a bit of administration stuff over the last Number of months just like Steve golf bags clothing I've come in here to look at the team rooms the bedrooms pick You'd be amazed the detail that goes in behind the scenes of the little details Keeps you pretty busy Kind of have to manage that if you're if I'm still playing so you kind of have to manage your time well I kind of have the feeling now that we kind of turn a corner Soon that obviously a lot of the administration stuff needs to be done a year in advance You know when it comes to designing clothes and making the clothes they need time From now on it. I would think it's going to turn more to My time with the team my time getting you know getting to know the players and understanding what's going on So it would be much more I'm hoping from now on and be much more of the of what people perceived of the captain's job is of just you know Watching his players getting an understanding getting a feel for What my captain see how I want my captain see what I want it to be like and and you know from now on it's Going to get more into the into the The real Ryder Cup stuff the stuff that I would be certainly more interested in and the stuff that I'm you know Will hopefully make me a better captain when it comes around today the event in a year's time Thank you front row here Both of you guys have talked about the golf course Steve. I think it's no secret that you'd like to take some of the things that Hazel team and bring them here. How do you do that on this course because it's so different than his team? Yeah, good question Gary.  Yeah, and I'm sure it'll be much like Paris. So Yeah, there's no real tricks here, you know It's not going to be eight on the stimp meter like it was in Paris. It's It's not going to be as high as rough as it was in Paris But you know, it's there's no there's no real tricks, you know And but it is a little bit more of a challenge here to Potteryx point earlier that you know It's a link style course, but I don't know if this is a true link style course, you know A lot of this is still played through the air here You know some of the link style that I've played over on over the years overseas is that you know You really bounce the ball up you roll it up You can flight it down low and and here I think it's a little bit more in the air than it is over overseas personally thinking but Yeah, we'll We'll see how it goes Didn't give much steady Martin in the back over here, please When you were talking earlier about your mainstays in the team you didn't mention either Phil Mickelson or Tiger Woods Was that a case of you possibly hinting subconsciously that they may have a different role here rather than the playing role? No, I think I mentioned Tiger Phil. I know I didn't mention but not not by It's just that I Went over my head. I guess but No, not at all. I think they both are very capable of making the team You know Tiger probably will make his own team this year and the president's cup. He's he's played well again and It doesn't surprise me either one of those guys were to make this team next year and It looks like Phil is building up his calves and and getting thinner and hitting more bombs So it anything's possible with Phil and and Tiger. We know what kind of player and competitor he is so No, I didn't mean to leave anybody out But it it Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me if either one of those guys and we welcome that as as a team They are both unbelievable in the team room They're they're obviously played on a number of teams and have had so much Experience but to leave any of those guys out would be would be hard to do just because of what they mean And what they have meant to these teams over the years Question over here, please. Yeah, this question is for Podrick What are the in your experience? What are the challenges of being the visiting captain and maybe what about your personality? Kind of suits you for for putting together a team to come to the United States. I suppose It's a different challenge to being a home captain. There's no doubt when you're the home captain you a Lot of your captaincy is setting up the golf course And the challenge that everybody's going to get you get to make a lot of choices when you're the home captain as the way captain you were presented with a lot of presented with certain options that the only option so Mostly about my captaincy will be just managing my team The nine players and then the three captains picks When I have that team, it's putting them together in the right format for four Simpson four ball It's hopefully managing their expectations during the week For what they're going to see and what they're going to you know, how the event will You know how it will The ebbs and flows of the event and and you know That'll probably be more with rookies than the senior players. They've been here before they've seen it before but even then I'd be the sort of person I'd be more of the Bernard Langer style of captaincy than the warm and fuzzy In Wuznam style of captaincy or Sam Tarn so I wouldn't be the guy I will try and be the guy to put the arm around the shoulder But I would definitely be more on the Bernard Langer style of being practical And and try and be organized and give the guys as much help as I can You know outside of that I Just like Steve said you try and pick up from all the captains over the years the good and the bad and and try and develop the good and and and There won't be too much. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. There's not going to be too many I don't have new ideas that are going to come in and Revolutionize how we captain a team or a European team. It's going to try and be more the same and present You know with all the options to my players so that they they're in the best possible position to play there They're their their own game and their best game Question over here, please Question for both. I'm wondering if you can take a trip down memory lane and think about the first rider cup you remember as kids Maybe the first one you watched or the first big moment that you can remember Steve Excuse me Yeah, I guess the one that really sticks out in my mind is is The winning putt of Davis love and where was that at when he raises arms? Belfry 93 what year 93? I'm sure I watched him before then but that one just really Sticks out in my memory you know being in a way match and a tight match and You know just an iconic really kind of Picture when he made that winning putt and raised his arms and you could you know knowing knowing Davis now You know what that what that meant and what that feels like so? You know, I still remember that and still look at it And it's in a lot of our team rooms pictures and all that throughout the years So it's probably the one that sticks in my mind the most I think for me personally I grew up as an amateur playing we used to play our winter series of golf a lot in a golf course called royal Dublin Which is the home of Christian Connor senior? So he had at that stage it played the most rider cups and ride a cup history. I think it was nine and his golf bags are Obviously in the memorabilia Cabinets and things there so I grew up with the rider cup being very much in the forefront of golf in Ireland And then obviously Christian Connor junior hit that two iron in 85 would probably be the first shot I probably saw shots before that but 85 would have been that was the one for me Against Fred couples then quickly followed by Amy Darcy and another Irish pro hole in the putt in Muirfield village Holds like a six footer down. Well, maybe a four footer down the hill and 18 at Muirfield like a man would not have been The most beautiful putter to hold a putt like that in the rider cup Phillip Wharton then winning the 95 Hole and you know had to Took two down the last so there was a lot of really being a great Irish heritage in in the rider cup And that's something that I would have been brought up with and so those are those are the standout memories for me Question. Yeah, this is for Steve over the last few rider cups. There's been some Evaluation I guess of the American team and their ability to play match play as compared to the proficiency of the European team As a coach, especially with the young guys where as you're approaching this What would you do to work with their mindset to move to match play versus stroke play that they're used to week after week? Yeah, and I don't I don't know if we're weak in that department. I think you know the The Europeans have outplayed us the last the last few times We we get a lot of practice at it You know we play a president's cup every other year and we play this event We also have the World Golf Championship match play event You know, maybe if anything, you know, we've been looking into stats as well You know, I mean we we do the same thing as the European side and it's you know We gave a lot of holes away in in France By making something other than par We made is almost as many birdies if I remember right during that week in France but we just gave so many holes away and and In making different numbers, you know, so it could be our style of play You know there are guys on the on the US side are our aggressive players. They they make a lot of birdies Usually the guys that make the team are leading the the birdie average for the year, you know They're they're just aggressive players and you know, sometimes in match play It's okay to back down and and try to make a par and and that showed in France You know that if we could have just made some parts that it could have been a different match But that's easier said than done to you know, France was a tough setup Of course is very demanding very difficult. Our guys didn't have any experience on that golf course. So Yeah, so I think if anything, you know the message for our guys will be you know, you Sometimes, you know backing off and making pars and making making the other team earn it is is a good thing and wear them out a little bit, but Yeah, it's I don't It's a tough question. It's you got a whole putt, you know bottom line as you make more putts than the other team You're gonna win but Hopefully we can do that Thank you questions Questions from media twice Padraig Steve, thank you very much for joining us