How are you doing, Natalie? Well, Eddie, could you hear me? No, now I can't. Oh, sorry. Hi, I said it's my first time eating today. I'm trying to scarf something down. Oh, you're ahead of me. I've been looking at food all day, though. Goodness.  I just want to remind counsel that you are live broadcast to the public now. You all made Stephanie mad there. With that, let's go ahead and get rolling. It's 3 o'clock. I recognize a quorum. Madam City Clerk, do you want to call the roll? Council Member Tibbetts. Council Member Schwedhelm. Here. Council Member Sawyer. Here. Council Member Fleming. Here. Council Member Alvarez. Present. Vice Mayor Rogers. Present. Mayor Rogers. Here. And Council Member Tibbetts, have you joined us? OK, let the record show that all council members are present with the exception of Council Member Tibbetts. Thank you, Stephanie. And Council Member Tibbetts is unlikely to join us this evening. But if he gets a chance, I'm sure he will pop on. Before we get into our study session, I did want to do some quick housekeeping reminders for council members. Please remember to stay muted on Zoom unless you are speaking. We have the ability to unmute ourselves if we need to. But go ahead and make sure that we do it at the appropriate times. Staff will also remain muted until they need to speak. For members of the public who've joined the meeting, they'll be participating as attendees on the Zoom. That means that the microphone and camera will also be muted until the clerk asks them to unmute and sends that request during public comment. You'll only be able to view the panelists for each of the items during the meeting. And so please wait until you are called on to speak. If you're calling in from a telephone and choose to speak during the public comment portion of today's agenda, privacy concerns from the host, we will be renaming you by the last four of your phone number.  We also want to make sure that folks remember that the city of Santa Rosa is committed to creating a safe and inclusive environment free from disruption. That means that we won't tolerate hate speech or actions towards staff and presenters or the public that are anything but respectful. Folks who violate this will be removed from the meeting. And if we need to, we will immediately end the meeting as well. Madam clerk, do you want to explain how folks can participate in today's meeting during the public comments? Yes, thank you. After each agenda item is presented, the mayor will ask for council comments and then open it up for public comment. The host and zoom will be lowering all hands until public comment is open for the agenda item. Once the mayor has called for public comment, the mayor will announce for the public to raise their hand if they wish to speak on the specific agenda item. If you are calling in to listen to the meeting audibly, you can dial star nine to raise your hand. The mayor will then call on the public who have raised their hands. Public comment will be limited to three minutes and a timer will appear on the screen for the council and public to see. Once all live public comments have been heard, the meeting hosts will play voicemail public comments. If you provide a live public comment on an agenda item, but also submitted an email e-comment or recorded a voice message public comment, your email e-comment or voice message public comment will not be duplicated, read or play during the meeting. Additionally, there are two public comment periods on today's agenda to speak on non-agenda matters, items 13 and 17. This is the time when any person may address the council on matters not listed on this agenda, but which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the council. And also if you did provide an email or e-comment by the deadline of 5 p.m. on Monday, your email and e-comments have been uploaded to the website and the city council were afforded your comments. All right, thank you so much. We did not have closed session earlier today.  And so we will move on to our study session. Item 3.1, Chief Navarro, I think this is you taking this away. It is, I will do the introduction. Counts, Mayor Rogers. It is 3.1, Santa Rosa Police Department staffing, Ray Navarro, Police Chief Presenting. Good afternoon, Mayor Rogers and members of the city council, Ray Navarro, Chief of Police. This is a department staffing study that we are gonna be presenting today. The, this initial staffing study was provided to the Public Safety Subcommittee meeting back in November. And as a result of that, they requested that the presentation be presented in front of the whole city council. And that's in, that is why we are here today. I'll give you an overview of where we've been and where we're at right now and some of the issues that we're trying to address. The, again, the overview will be of the Police Department staffing. And we will, at the end, this is for your information, we are gonna be making specific decisions based on our staffing this year to address how we focus on Calls for Service and prioritizing issues that come up in the community in regards to safety. Next slide, please. So to begin with, this is a, this is a diagram of our chain of command, provides you a general overview of our Police Department. We have three main areas and then we have a, which we have in divisions and then a fourth division that we've divided up our Police Department into. Our largest is the Field Services Division that is headed by a captain. And that is basically all of our uniformed assignments. So it's our patrol officers that are out on the street, it's our special assignments that are related to uniform patrols such as school resource officers, the, our public information officer, our downtown enforcement team and our traffic bureau. The other piece that is in there is our tactical teams and other collateral assignments that are taken up by people from throughout the department. And that includes our SWAT, H&T, hostage negotiation team, mobile field force, field training officers and so on. We have in our, for our training, for our training teams, those who train our new staff coming on, we have 23 field training officers that are in patrol and they are basically solo officers and then take on a trainee when we are putting somebody through training and basically become the infill instructor to make sure that they're signing off and they're, make sure that our new officers are doing things appropriate legally and meeting the standards of the Police Department. We also have 18 SWAT members, 17 hostage negotiators, 38 mobile field force members. And then we have 10 members for the incident management team, which again are throughout the department, but they come together, and pulled for specific events for such as large scale incidents or emergencies and help plan for those, including what we've seen this year with COVID, the protests and the fires. We also have our administrative vision that has to do with overseas, our admin secretaries and our store specialists and admin analysts. Our technical services division includes all of our dispatchers and records bureau and property evidence and crime analysts. And they do a lot of the work on the, with people coming into the front counter of the Police Department, they work hand in hand with our officers to address reports, get that information over to the district attorney's office or other partners that may need that information. And then we also have our special services division that includes all of our investigative bureaus or investigative bureau and all of our teams, including our domestic violence team. We did have a gang unit, I'll go into that later, narcotics property and our violent crimes team. We have a professional standards bureau and that includes our team that does all of our recruitment testing and testing for our new staff and our training department, which logs over 20,000 hours of training for our entire team, our entire department last year. They also work very closely with our field training officers who again work with our new officers and new staff out on the street. Next slide, please. This slide or this graph provides a visual of our staffing over the last 15 years. As you can see, we've we have seen some dips and since 2006, when we had 281 budgeted positions, 190 sworn positions and 91 civilian, since then we've lost 27 of those positions, including 13 sworn and 14 civilian positions. 2009, there was a significant reduction where we had to cut 23 staff members and there was a direct impact on our services. One of the things that happened in 2009 was our record section went from a 24 hour service to basically business hours. That reduced the ability to get some of the records work done in the middle of the night. It impacted their ability, records ability to support our patrol officers over the night shift hours and take missing persons reports, that sort of thing in the middle of the night. So all of that impact that was reduced went back to our patrol officers for them to work. These cuts included again, both sworn and civilian positions, which impacts all aspects of the department. In the past two years, we've lost, again, several positions. We've cut 12 positions, including in 2019, we had to make some significant cuts in our civilian staffing where we've been trying to increase. That included three community service officers. Those are officers that are, or civilians that are in the field taking traffic accidents and what we call cold reports. So reports that, or a crime may have occurred 12 hours before instead of sending an officer, we would send a community service officer to that. We also had to reduce, take away our research and grant coordinator, a police technician in our records bureau and then one of our police personnel supervisors which handled our recruitment efforts and back in 2019. This particular year, this last year, we couldn't cut anywhere in the areas of civilian personnel. We had to reduce our staffing by four sworn officers and a communication dispatcher and our IT civilian supervisor. We have two IT or three IT technicians. We currently do not have a supervisor for those positions right now. Technology is continuing to be a significant issue for us as we have addressed a radio project, continue to work on our body or camera projects and other technology as they become vital in public safety. In addition to that, we've also frozen two measurill swarm positions that were basically frozen because of the lack of revenue from the measure of tax measure. So with that, we've had to make some difficult decisions on what our staffing is, as we always have done and to do, take care of the critical issues with the reduced staffing that we have. Next slide, please. So this slide gives you an idea of our staffing as it relates to our population over the last 15 years. And as you can see in 2005, our population was 153,000. The estimated population was in 2020 was approximately 175,000. We had 124,000 calls for service in 2005. And the 137,000 was a 137,000 was an estimate. We have, I was told that our dispatch has actually received about 240,000 calls for service in the year 2020. The response to calls this year has decreased because of some of the COVID issues and the reduction of some of the service to protect both the community and our staff from the COVID pandemic. We checked in with our cities playing an economic development team. It's estimated that our population for the city is projected to increase at a growth of about 3.6 over the next five years. We looked at how we respond to calls for service. Some of the things that we look at is how quickly do we get to priority one calls? Those are the fight calls, those emergency calls that we have to get to. In 2019, our calls for service, our ability to get to a priority one call was six minutes and 48 seconds. That's higher than the average for some of the larger agencies in the state. The averages for response times for the larger agencies in the state are anywhere from 5.4 to 5.7 minutes. And so we're definitely above that. And our goal is to get down to less than six minutes on priority one calls. It can take us because we prioritize these with other calls for service that come in that are priority two calls, lower level, they may be as much as 12 minutes. And priority three calls, which are maybe a nuisance call may take as long as 25 minutes to get to that particular call. One of the other things that we are experiencing or will experience when we return back to normal is how do we address contract overtime? In normal circumstances, we have a lot of contract overtime that comes in and we have officers sign up for that. That includes the fair, the Wednesday night market, any other special events that come in such as the Ironman or any bike races that come in. And so we are with the reduced staffing, it becomes more difficult to staff those positions when we have those special assignments or special contract services come up. And the added duties that we take on with our investigations and we'll talk more about this later is, we have more priorities and requirements in our investigations for violent crimes, domestic violence, and just to make sure that we have all the information compiled appropriately so that district attorney can have enough information to determine whether or not to file on a case. Next slide, please. Thank you. So another, so we use a national allocation model to determine our staffing. And basically what this is, is we look at our patrol officers' time, both reactive and ability to be proactive. And we want that to be pretty much a 30-30 split. So 30 minutes are gonna be proactive responding and or dealing with community projects, addressing traffic, traffic complaints, community engagement, that sort of thing. And then 30 minutes will be right reactive time, go into a emergency response call or a call for service where somebody calls 911. In 2018 was our last staffing update, we used three years, 2013, 2015 to 2018 data to create, to look at where we were. And we were right about 31 minutes or 31 and a half minutes on our reactive time. So it wasn't too bad. However, we maintained that particular split by cutting in other areas of the department. So over the last several years, we've been in order to meet that, we have reduced our staffing in several special assignments, which has hampered some of our abilities to be more proactive in several of these different areas. And it's having a direct impact on our investigations and again, proactivity in areas such as quality of life and gangs and traffic. The other thing to note based on our staffing model was that in 2018, there was the recommendation from the staffing study was that we needed to have four additional officers immediately to bring us to 185 sworn staff. And by 2022, which is next year to add an additional three positions for 188 sworn staff. Again, we're currently at 177 positions, sworn positions. In another staffing study that we did for our communication center, which was done in 2015, we used data between 2010 and 2013. It recommended a total of 28 dispatchers and four supervisors. We are not there yet. We have currently 23 dispatch positions and three supervisors allocated within our budget. And then we are looking at ways to change how we do things. We're looking at, we'll get into a little bit more, but we're looking at mental health response, how we respond to those type of calls. We're looking at how we respond to homelessness. But even if we change the way we respond, it's gonna continue. The calls will continue to come in to dispatch and continue to be an impact for them. And again, we anticipate the calls to continue to increase as our population grows and our city becomes more dense in our housing. Next slide, please. This slide here shows Santa Rosa's comparable cities. Basically we compete with these cities and several other jurisdictions within our region for qualified and professional personnel for both sworn and civilian staff. This particular information was based on 2021 data that we pulled from each of these agencies. There's another universally accepted standard to look at staffing for police departments. And that's the number of officers per 1,000. And we're, according to this slide, we are right at about one per 1,000 residents, a little bit lower than some of the other ones and a little higher than two of them. This does not account for the vacant positions that we have, although we have allocated 177 paid positions within our budget. We currently have six officer vacancies. We have two sergeant officer vacancies or two sergeant vacancies. We have four dispatcher vacancies. And we have about 11 of our current staff that are allocated. They're actually in our field training program, which means they are not solo status and they can't take a beat on their own. We also have about 13 sworn staff who are injured and not available to work. So if you take the 11 and the 13 into account plus the vacancies, we have been significantly impacted by our staffing numbers.  Next slide, please. So this slide shows kind of where we are in our, with our investigative units in our collateral assignments. The abbreviations, just so you're aware of what they are, AI are accident investigators, motors of the motorcycles, downtown enforcement team is DET, the SROs are the resource officers for the schools.  And then we have gangs and narcotics. We, with the reduction of staffing in our investigations to meet the demands in patrol, it is causing a delay in how we investigate and the ability to go out and do proactive work as investigators. It reduces our ability to address certain services such as dealing with homelessness, violence reduction and community engagement. And all of our teams have been impacted. Just last year, we had, I believe, four homicides. We're seeing violent crimes starting to rise again. We had another recent homicide in this year in January. We suspended our gang crimes team and the gang crimes team and our SRO program were the primary contacts and collaborators with the violence prevention program. Our gang crimes team proactively addressed gang issues and we are now completely reactive to any type of violent crimes related to gangs. We have suspended our SRO program partly due to the COVID, another issue with the measure O and the fact that we don't currently have an MOU in place with the schools. And we've maintained some of the first areas that we have reduced our resources in was in the area of property and in trafficking. We have maintained that reduction as we've gone through the last few years. And again, from a traffic point of view, some of the things that we've had to do this last year, again, due to COVID and staffing, we've reduced our traffic enforcement, which is there's a direct correlation with traffic safety. We had eight fatalities, traffic fatalities last year. And we have an increased, we're having increasing amount of side shows on a regular basis throughout the year and we anticipate that to continue, especially as the weather gets better in the spring and summer. Next slide, please. So this slide provides some data related to how busy we are in our detective units and our clearance rates over the last five years. We've done our clearance rates for part one crimes have reduced a little bit. Our violent crimes, we're continuing to do well because we feel that is a priority. And we've kept our violent crimes team as staffed as we can. And when there's a violent crime, we pull from our other detective assignments to make sure that they're getting assistance in areas of going out and doing follow ups, surveillances, that sort of thing to make sure that we're doing what we can to clear those violent crime rates. We have been significantly impacted in the area of property crimes. And that is one of the areas which we see over and over with emails and concerns coming in as it involves stolen vehicles, package thefts, schemes that are going on through the internet, that sort of thing. And so we've had a significant decrease in the ability to clear those crimes. We have tried to maintain our domestic violence sexual assault team as much as possible. So because that is a priority for us. However, if every time we have a reduction and I believe we have one, we're down one detective right now, any reduction there impacts our ability to do proactive enforcement and investigations on crimes such as online predators. And then also help follow up with some of the domestic violence calls that we get on a regular basis. And again, it limits our abilities to be able to do more proactive work in the area of probation and parole contacts. Next slide, please. This particular slide shows where we are on, or just gives you an idea of what we deal with from a worker's comp injury and disability retirements as we've gone through the last several years. We have seen an increase in disability retirements. We have eight last year. And again, we currently have, we average, you know, we're in the 40s usually with workers comp claims on any given year. And again, right now we have 13 sworn officers that are out on injury. We have two civilian officers who are out on injury. And we have additional officers, four officers that are out on some other type of FMLA stats. And so it does impact our ability to work and do our investigations and address calls for service in patrol. The other thing that that doesn't do is doesn't, this doesn't include any of the quarantining that we're doing this last year, which is it definitely, that fluctuates. It'll, you know, we'll get certain times where it may spike where we're, you know, we come across an exposure in patrol and we'll have to quarantine a group, maybe a group of officers at given time. And those will happen from, it just depends on week to week on when, who we're contacting out on the street and what's happening. Next slide, please. So we did a internal assessment for both internal and external factors that are gonna be impacting, that are impacting our department. And as you can see our strengths, I think that, you know, we, our teams, we have always relied on experience and, you know, dedication from our teams and our individuals here to go out and do the job that they have signed up to do. We have done a really good job at holding onto people for a long time. We, you know, we see some of that changing and we'll get into that in a bit. We've done a very good job at cross training and mentoring. Again, a lot of our collateral assignments, such as the incident management team and some of the other training, we cross-designate people and have them trained so they're working multiple assignments and they can be moved from one place to another. And, you know, we have, again, a team of dedicated employees who, you know, when we have an emergency, we call them out and they put a different hat on and they switch from an investigator to somebody who is responding to an evacuation or to an emergency crisis. We do a very good job at recruiting people, qualified people. We, I think that's something that we've always taken pride in and we try not, you know, we don't wanna lower our standards. We wanna continue to hire the most qualified and diverse group of individuals as we take on these continuous challenges. With, as far as weaknesses go, our staffing, again, has been a struggle. We have lost several positions, which, again, impacts, as we've talked about, our ability to do our work, some of the proactive work that we do, our investigative work, it reduces the staffing and investigations, which has an impact on recruitment. Everybody that I've spoken with a lateral that we've been able to hire over the last year and a half, which is, we've had about four people, each one of them had told me that, you know, they're coming here because they wanna come here for the opportunities, the opportunity to move to a special assignment sometime in the future and be able to do something different. And so with reduced staffing and investigations, that becomes more difficult to do. We have a reduced, again, our reduced budget, it becomes, you know, we can't increase our staffing to meet the needs of the growing population and the growing calls for service. We are seeing more people leaving right now. I've had just two people leave in the last two months who have left that we're not of retirement age and left to go to other departments. We have to meet mandates in a timely manner. So whether that's an investigation or dealing with a public records act or dealing with our bodymore camera footage, that's a significant hit to our staff. The bodymore camera project that we have has been very important to us and very valuable, but that expands or extends the time on a call for service to be able to properly label that evidence and be able to get that downloaded before they go on to the next call or go off of their shift. And then just being able to maximize, not being able to maximize technology for the efficiency. All technology is expensive and we are, you know, when our equipment has been, our equipment budget has been reduced as have our staffing. And then all of this leads to morale. I reported out to our Public Safety Subcommittee in November that our morale has dropped. We do have, we have poor morale, a lot of that goes back to the things that we just talked about, the staffing, the inability to have opportunities, the increased mandates on our staff, and there's a perception that they are supported with the last, definitely over this last year and with budgetary issues and compensation. And so we did take a, we did do a survey and we did get that feedback from our staff and those are some of the areas that they look, they're telling us is the problem or the issue with our morale right now. Some of the opportunities that we have as we go forward, we always want to look at what can we do better and what can we continue to do? We have an opportunity to continue to work with our nonprofit partners. Again, we're looking in the area of mental health and homeless response. We will be giving an update tomorrow at the Public Safety Subcommittee meeting on that, but we are in the final stages of getting a final contract written for a consultant with Kahootz and moving forward with that to get something moving in that end and we'll be working with our nonprofit partners to see how we can get civilians to respond to some of these calls for service. It's important to have a staffing study come up. Again, it's been a few years since we've had one, but that is a, it's a very expensive item that can cost up to $15,000 to have a staff quality staffing study done. We have employee wellness programs to work on morale. We've, we have, we've worked with the Sixth Foundation. We've worked with our EAP resiliency first and we have, again, our wellness solutions that helps us in some, in the different areas, both physical and mental wellbeing to try to prepare our staff to be ready to help other people when in crisis. We have, we are looking at some consolidation of services. Those can be maybe some, it may be out of ways, but one of the things that we've looked into and have had some initial discussions about are how do we consolidate maybe dispatch and maybe other areas that we can work with other agencies to help consolidate some of those resources. We are also putting together a, or continuing to work with recruitment. I'll touch on that in just a bit. Community engagement, especially with this year, there's, we have to take the opportunity right now to move forward and work with our community and listen to the community and have those, that open dialogue. I'm excited about the SEED Collaborative and the work that we're gonna be doing as a city and we're gonna be involved in that. And then the other thing that we're doing now is we're taking the opportunity to look at our calls for service and evaluating which calls will be impacted this year based on our reduction in staff. Again, challenges that we're looking at, you know, we're looking at competing with other agencies throughout the region based on our, for recruitment. We have, you know, we're looking at the increasing mandates, the increased housing density and population as we grow, as we rebuild in the fire areas and then also build up some of these high density areas in the downtown area. And we're seeing a lot of high density housing in like off of Petaluma Hill Road and also in the Northwest section of the city. Natural disasters, COVID fires, that's always gonna continue to be a challenge. You know, we have to, it takes every single person to go out to those emergencies and if we don't have the number of staffing that we should have, it impacts our ability to evacuate people in a timely manner. One of the, that was seen this last glass fire when, you know, there were challenges with getting people out of the Oakmont during the glass fire. And then also dealing with COVID issues and then also major incidents, any other major incidents that come forward in the future. We have, there's a public perception of policing that is, you know, again, we have, we are dealing with that. We are looking at how we can continue to do better as a department. We are looking at what's going on in other departments throughout the nation and how that impacts us. And we, every opportunity we have when there's a significant incident, we look at our policies and procedures, see if we need to make any particular changes. But as that continues to be one of those topics right now, that's gonna be a continued challenge and how do we continue to meet there, meet the public and work with them, work with the public in the next year.  Again, we have 25 sworn staff members who are eligible to retire this next year. And so, you know, the number of people that were getting off of training, it's gonna help us immediately, but then we're gonna anticipate another huge reduction as we go through the next year or two. And then it's difficult to address those impacts with recruiting, new recruits and putting them through the academy. And we'll talk about that. And again, increased population and the calls for services, they come along. Next slide, please. So again, this is information on our recruitment. We've done a tremendous amount of work in the area of recruitment. What we have found is in public safety or at least in our department, approximately one out of every three people pass our background. And so that's what we have a standard in place. And so we have, we try to get very high caliber people to come here to serve our community. And it's important to understand when we do recruit people for a brand new officer. So somebody who's never been an officer anywhere else, the entire process from the opening of a recruitment to the end of their field training program could take up to 18 months. That's going through the application, the recruitment, the initial training academy and then the field training that they have to go through. And then there's another 18 months of probationary period that employees go through to make sure that they're meeting the mission, vision and values and the standards of our department. Again, we have six officers, two sergeants and four dispatchers that currently vacant 25 staff that are going to eligible to retire. And then we also include, there's included or in addition to that, we have dispatchers who we believe will be leaving as well. So some of the things that we've done, again, we've updated our materials. We have updated our job announcements, our job descriptions for several of our positions. In the area of dispatch, we are utilizing a new testing platform called Critical which helps us become more efficient and better evaluate somebody to come in and be a dispatcher. We've tried to be innovative in our advertising. We've utilized social media including Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. We've advertised or we've used interactive stories and videos in the past year to highlight some of our new recruits and why they come here. We no longer have a marketing and outreach coordinator, but when we had one, we used that position to help us with a recruitment tool last year in 2019. We've advertised on specific job websites, both professional and also educational. We had an officer who came up with an idea of running with a recruiter about a year and a half ago where we went out with applicants, ran three miles and gave them an opportunity to talk to the officers and myself on what is being an officer like and what to expect and how to best prepare for being a police officer. We've also worked with local colleges, the Santa Rosa Junior College, Sonoma State University and with our last recruitment that just closed a week and a half ago, I believe. We, I reached out to 10,000 degrees to get their help and ask them to push out the information throughout the debate area. And so we've done a lot of work there. The other thing that we're doing is as we've closed the recruitment, we are setting up opportunities for the people going through the recruitment process to meet with our staff, to talk about each level of the recruitment process to help them prepare as they go through so they're not doing it on their own, to help them be more successful. And the last thing I just wanna say about recruitment, on a regular basis in the past, we had regularly received, you know, 500 applications for each job recruitment that we've done. Over the last three recruitments for officers, we have received less than 200 applications each of those three times. The last one that just closed, we received 158 applications for the police officer training position. We don't currently have anybody in the process of, for laterals coming from other agencies. That's a significant concern for us. There's a lot of issues.  We all, you know, and everybody talks and with other agencies, there's a lot of issues with COVID. There's a lot of issues with the economic climate right now and not a lot of people wanna move. And, you know, when you do move, coming into Sedoma County can be a significant issue with the economic constraints for employees who try to make that move. So again, those are some of the things that we're trying to do within our recruitment and we are looking forward to other ideas and be working with, again, our partners in the community to try to continue in that particular area. Next slide, please. Again, I'm here for any questions. We have, this has been really the, this has been for your edification. So you're aware of the police department staffing over the years, where we are right now and to let you know that, you know, we are having significant issues in our staffing. A lot of it, again, is tied to economics, to our ability to do different assignments and then also compensation that has been impacted by the economy. And then also to let you know that we will be looking at calls for service and how that's gonna impact what's gonna be taken away, what we're not gonna be able to do. We're in the middle of that right now. And to let you know, we're working on that based on our priorities and the priorities from city council. Council Member Sawyer, see your hand up. Thank you, Chief. Two questions, they're both related. I'm curious about exit interviews and those officers that are leaving that are not of retirement age and that are leaving to go to other organizations. And I'd be curious how much of that we were tracking and what the, you may have already mentioned some of the reasons why we might be losing some of our officers. The other thing is if there is any way, especially at a job fair, where you hand out some material to a prospective employee and to find out why they didn't choose Santa Rosa or what they had heard or what, you know, some of those the unknowns that are a bit mysterious and that kind of information of course would be much more difficult to gather together than an exit interview. But I'm wondering if there's any way to ascertain why we are 300 applicants short of where we had been before. Yeah, those are very good questions, sir. I can tell you that a couple of years ago, I went to the Latino State of the Union down it. It was at Sonoma State, believe it was in 2019. And there was a lot of discussion about how the big move right now was to be your own boss, right? To be an entrepreneur.   The exit interviews, I can tell you that the exit interviews that I, when I've spoken with people who've chosen to leave, there is people are upset with the current climate in California as a whole, you know, there are some people that they're, there are some people who are leaving for, you know, because they don't feel that this is an appropriate place for, or they can't, they don't feel that they can raise your families here and they're moving to other areas. So, and then on the other question that you had, it is difficult to reach out and ask people, why aren't you putting in applying for this job? And so, again, that's why we're trying to reach out with the nonprofits and with the educators, our education institutions. And that's something that we can work on and we can try to get that information because I don't know what that information is. Thanks, Chief. If we do get that though, I'd definitely be happy to report back out if we do learn of what that is. Well, you know, we know that housing is very expensive. There are some obvious answers, but I'm a little in some ways more interested because those are always issues in Sonoma County or have been for decades. I'm a little curious as to those reasons that may be a little bit more nuanced, which are of course very difficult to obtain. So, I appreciate that. Yeah, so the exit interviews don't tell me, you know, people aren't coming here for, you know, the economic reasons, right? But what I've heard, and again, it is anecdotal, is that people don't want to make the move. And when we've seen, you know, the some of the staff that have come from other departments over the last year, it's, there has been a, I'm going to apply, I'm going to, there's been some delay. And then we move forward because it is, it's a very difficult decision to be able to move from one area of California into Sonoma County and try to figure out, how are you going to do that? And so that is, I have heard that, that is one of the things that is constantly in people's minds when they're, when they're trying to make that decision. Okay, thanks, Chief. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Chief, for the report. I did have a couple of questions. You may not know the answer, but I was curious to know the rate of crime in the cities that were compared on slide six out of the 12 and where we stand with the crime rates. So if you have to get back to me, that's fine, but I was interested in knowing that. And with us looking at the Kahootz model, how many of the calls for service may be diverted with that model in place that the PD would not have to respond to? I'm sorry, yeah, was there anything else, ma'am? Oh, I have a list. If you can answer that one first. So those, so first of all, I don't have the crime rates for the other comparable cities. We can see what we can try to pull those up and get you those at a later date. And the other question was regarding Kahootz. We don't know yet. It's a different, you know, we can try to compare what's going on up in Oregon. And the closest we can come, it's, you know, they have told us that they can, they have given up about three to 5% of their calls for service.  Sometimes they go with Kahootz. Sometimes they don't go with them and then call them later, but ultimately it ends up being about three to 5% of their calls can get diverted over to Kahootz. We're hoping that we can be in that same area. You know, we're trying to look at, in addition to mental health crisis, we're also looking at, you know, can we address some of the homeless issues with Kahootz, with the Kahootz model?  You know, how many, you know, and the larger, the larger the scale, the more expensive it's going to be. So that's the other piece, right? So the larger, the larger it is, they may be able to take on more calls for service. And so we're trying to identify how we get it started and how do we grow it. That's it. And then also I wanted to know with, well that this kind of answers it, I guess a little bit, but with having the Kahootz or a model similar to, with that free up positions and maybe looking at not having the SROs for right now, we're not using them. So would that free up for people to go out in the officers to go out in the field?  Yeah. So right now what we're doing with the SROs, we, two of those have been frozen because of measure row. So they're vacant positions. The other three have been reallocated back to patrol to meet the, to help meet the needs in patrol. So right now they're, so those staffing positions are needed to answer calls for service. And again, we are, you know, the information, based on the data that we have over the years and the calls for service that we're getting, and the recommendations from the study that we did in 2018, we are nine positions behind where we should be starting next year. And that's just from a sworn officer position. Okay. And this is my last question, everyone. Sorry. So the marketing and outreach coordinator, was that one of the positions that was eliminated? And do we feel like with our recruitment issues that that would be a position that would help assist us with recruitment or? There was a, there was some movement within the city organization and our marketing and outreach coordinator, which was a halftime position, was moved over to the city and marketing and outreach team or marketing team. And there's currently a team for the city that handles city-wide resources. And they assist with, you know, we have our own PI, Press Information Officer, Public Information Officer. We have staff who have a collateral as engagement officers, which we want to use. And they, the marketing team for the city, we speak with them on a weekly basis and let them know, you know, these are the needs that we have and, you know, if they can help us out, they will.  So long answer to that, but the position was moved to another city department. Thank you. Is that it, Madam Vice Mayor? All right, Council Member Fleming. But go ahead and hit the unmute button. Can anybody else hear? All right, Council Member, do you want to restart your microphone and we'll go on to Council Member Schwedhelm and then come back to you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Chief, I have a question on slide four where you're talking about the staffing and the number of calls for service, you know, going back, obviously the big reduction in officers was in 2009 with a great recession. But I know some policing strategies have changed since 2005 that are represented here, namely, you know, two things, I know the thoroughness of the domestic violence investigations and the body-worn cameras because all calls for service are not created equal. Can you talk a little bit about the differences in what officers are required to do in 2021 that maybe they weren't required to do in 2005? Yeah, that's a good question, sir. We have, you know, with changes in laws, there's been a lot of additional requirements and I think the biggest thing is, you know, with every, you know, with every report that we do, there's some type of form that's attached or some type of either admonishment or notification that we have to provide to a victim or a witness or a suspect. And we've, you know, so there's more and more paperwork that we have to go through, you know, some of the things that have changed for the positive as far as victims' rights, we have to make sure that we're getting that information to the victims, but it does take more time to go through some of this, some of these processes, which extends the time on several of these calls. The other thing that has changed over the years is there has been a change in different laws that have, you know, impact who goes to jail, who doesn't go to jail for a particular violation, and then also for, you know, again, how we, you know, the changes in laws and what's needed for reports. And so, you know, we have to become, you know, when there's a change in law, as far as a district attorney needs something extra for a report or it needs to be more, you know, based on a specific law, then we have to provide that information in the report. And so it's not a, it's not assumed anymore. So we have to, you know, some of the changes over the years have been, you know, we don't just take a domestic violence report based on a victim and a suspect comment. We're reaching out and we're making contacts with potential witnesses and neighbors sometimes and continuing that because the level of information is needed is much more. With the area of Bidingmore cameras, we instituted Bidingmore cameras in 2015. That has been a tremendous help for us in the field to address not only evidence, but also, you know, our, you know, complaints. We saw complaints go down once we received Bidingmore cameras. But everybody more camera is not, it's not a, it's not an hour for hour. So, you know, you turn on your Bidingmore camera, everything is, we require the cameras to be on when you're out on the call for service. And it takes a significant amount of time to go through, to look at that information because that helps us write the reports. And also to make sure that we're labeling correctly, marking certain areas in the footage. So we can help the district attorney and direct them to a certain time where, okay, this was said or this particular information is critical in your, in the case when you're determining what to do with the filing. And so all of that is put on the officer's shoulder. And so it takes a significant amount of time to complete the reports and to complete each call for service. And that takes you out of service, which impacts our ability to address calls for service in patrol. So it's, you know, we had, with the protests, we had over 3,000 hours of Bidingmore camera footage.  A few weeks ago was a very busy week. We had over 300 calls for service, you know, over the weekend. And it was just, that's, we do, you know, we average patrol going out to calls on an annual basis, going up to 140 calls for service, 140,000 calls for service on a normal year.  Right. And so those activities that you just described, downloading Bidingmore cameras right in the reports, getting information, DA's office, that all goes within the 30 minutes of what you said on slide five, the 30 minutes, an hour of reactive time, not the proactive time, correct? It's on that side of the equation. That's correct. So anytime you have a call for service, so you get a call for service and you go to a domestic violence call, that all of that time is allocated into the reactive time. Okay. And then all the other things, the proactive things, meeting, what a community means, community members doing traffic enforcement. That's all on the 30 minutes of proactive allocation time, correct? That's correct. Okay. Thank you. Council Member Fleming. Can you hear me now? Thank you. You know, Chief, I was gonna thank you for your report and also ask you dovetailing on what Council Member Schwedhelm asked, how do you define the difference with those of us who don't live and breathe this stuff, reactive versus proactive? Yeah. So the reactive, again, is just in simple terms, somebody calls 911 or calls about a particular issue, right? It could be a theft, could be a fight, could be a sideshow. And that call for service goes to patrol and they're told there's a specific crime at a specific place and we respond to that call. That's a reactive call for service. Proactive call is, it's basically self-generated. It's you are out doing traffic enforcement because you're reactive because it may be a beat project or a complaint, but the dispatch did not send you to that. So you may have been directed by a supervisor to go work in a particular area to reduce the traffic issues in that area. And so that would be a proactive engagement. Community engagement is also proactive time. And again, if you're going to a meeting, that sort of thing, that's gonna be proactive. So anything that we're self-initiated, that is proactive. How do you classify processing body and orange camera footage as reactive or proactive? Well, again, I'll have to get confirmation, but if it's basically, if it's based off of your reactive or your call for service, which is a reactive call, like a domestic violence, that's going into your reactive time. Thank you. That's helpful to understand. And then I wanted to, first of all, I know during our public safety subcommittee, I asked about survey data. So thank you for following up and conducting a survey. I wanted to dig into that and see if there was any additional info or information on the specifics. Like you listed a number of areas that were contributing to challenges in recruiting both new recruits and laterals. And one of the benefits we had of this meeting over the last one is that you've conducted your provenance that we can say that we know that it is not just how things were before COVID, it's how things are now. And so I'm curious to know if you can add any more detail or color to what perhaps the most impactful factors were in the challenges of recruiting, whether the number one thing is compensation or opportunities or if the community doesn't feel supported by the council in particular, what are the things that are really operationally impacting you in building our force? So let's, so there are, there's a few things that's impacted morale significantly. Again, you've mentioned a few of them. Number one, there is the compensation aspect of it. There's been, there's, when you talk about pay and benefits, that's a significant piece for our staff. Again, the other piece of it is the lack of opportunities here because of our staffing, we have to take away some of our special assignments. And so there's a lack of opportunities and that's very difficult for us. There were a couple of other ones that I'm trying to think of, but I think the biggest one is lack of support right now. We have had a significant issue with the perception, the perception not having support from, and it was told that the information from the survey is lack of support from the community, lack of support from city leaders. And those are very, have been very specific. And that comes out as based either from lack of statements or compensation or not, I mean, just general acknowledgement. And I just want to say about that, we did sign up to be officers, but we're also human beings. And I know, I don't know what people are saying in public comment, but we do have, we have a dedicated and professional staff here at the Santa Rosa Police Department. They do their day in and day out. And it becomes very difficult when there is that, there is a feeling that there is no support on what they're doing. So, the concern is, are we supported when we're going out and arresting people when we have to, right? The concern is, why should I stay here if there's not appropriate compensation? And we get, we're again, we're dedicated, we're professional, we are from a compensation standpoint, there's, we have to look at other comparable cities. And so there's a, we have to look at those different discrepancies there. So, but in general, it's lack of opportunities, lack of support, staffing issues, and the ongoing demands or the additional demands that are growing each and every year with our staff. Chief, I just want to say a true heartfelt thank you to you for being as honest and direct with us as you have been about this. The position that you're in is not an easy one in both caring for your officers and for the needs and desires of the community and the city council. And so, I know I put you on the spot with this question, but it really helps us to inform where we go from here and balance the needs of our professional and hardworking staff with the demands of the community. And to that end, what I'm wondering is, and I think I know the answer to this, but I'm curious is how much of this is a common problem throughout the state of California since the last summer, the events of last summer and since the murder of George Floyd. And, you know, and how does our department, I can only imagine how called our department is by what happened, but, you know, what is the sense, you know, not just within Santa Rosa, but beyond the officers who are leaving or who no longer feel comfortable, compensation is sort of, you know, an important other topic, but I'm really particularly interested in the sense of not feeling supported by the community, you know, in figuring out how to move forward and we can take this up in more depth tomorrow. But, you know, where our officer is leaving to and is this problem specific to Santa Rosa or is it something that, you know, we're not seeing a lot of lateral movement throughout California? I can't speculate on other agencies. At this point, I can tell you that, you know, we as California chiefs continue to talk about how we, you know, move forward since the George Floyd incident and try to, you know, lead the way for the nation. And so we have, you know, we have put in, you know, we are working with legislation on those particular issues and we'll continue, again, we want to be the driver of that. Again, I can tell you that for us, it's, you know, we will continue to work with other agencies to get that data.  Okay. I believe those are most of my questions. Thank you for being so transparent. Thank you, council member, council member Alvarez. Yeah, good afternoon, chief. I want to echo council members' sentiments. You are appreciated. In regards to the comparable cities on slide number six, and again, echoing a lot of the questions in regards to compensation, is there a comparable study that we've done in order to see where we stand in how we're compensating our law enforcement? There is a, I don't have it with me right now. I can definitely get back to you, but the city does do, they do track that when we go into negotiations. And so that is something that I can work with our HR department on getting that information to you. Perfect, and in regards to slide number four, I believe it was the calls for service is an incident the same as a call or is there a difference? If you can explain that for both my clarification and those people that might be watching. Yeah, so it's basically the same thing. An incident is a call for service. And so, and then it can be a proactive call for service or a reactive call for service. In regards to the last four years, what do you see has changed since the last four years and what do you see as being in the next four years, especially with the climate in regards to social justice that we see it here locally and in our nation? Well, I think over the last four years, we've seen significant changes in how we have to address large scale emergencies. And again, we've had, it seems like we have a fire every single year. We're dealing with COVID and we've had a civil unrest that has impacted our city.  And with that, you see the budgetary issues that has put some constraints on the city and the police department. The other thing that I see over the last four years again is the implementation of the body warm camera project that we have that has sucked up a lot of time for our staff, both civilians, both sworn, addressing it within their call. And then also with dealing with sending reports over and dealing with or meeting certain mandates for law, transparency laws that have come up such as SB 1421 and AB 748, which address providing information to the public on significant uses of force. And so when we do that, there's a lot of redaction that goes into that. And so our staff is, it's taking numerous hours for them to address meeting those particular demands. So those are some of the issues. Again, higher calls for service, we've seen calls for service increase, especially when we're in those normal years where there isn't a significant event where we're evacuating half the city. And I see as we move forward, I think that what we're gonna deal with is again, higher density. It's a different way of policing when you're dealing with higher density areas. So as we grow the downtown area, what does that look like and how do we meet the demands for public safety down there? Are there gonna be more calls for foot patrols? And then also balancing that with spreading out over 47 miles of city and dealing with calls throughout our jurisdiction. From a social justice standpoint, I see us, we've done a lot of work.  And again, we took a significant look at the President Obama's 24th century policing or task force on 21st century policing and looked at the different pillars. And one of those was accountability. One of those was working with the community. Technology was another one. And so we looked at those and see where we are and what we were doing and how we can improve. We're gonna continue to do that. And over this next year, we're gonna work with Seed Collaborative and we're gonna continue the conversations that we started. I had community listening sessions when I was first appointed. And we had maybe 60 people show up to those. But I think now there's, we have an opportunity to do larger listening sessions, get a hold of more people and then utilize that to move forward, to continue to build that trust in the relationships with our community and repair what people have seen as, repair the issues that have gone on. The things that we're dealing with nationally are impacting us locally. But as a whole, we're gonna continue to, we're gonna continue to train our officers in cultural awareness as we've done in the past. We're gonna continue our role in training our officers in implicit bias, which we've done in the past. And we're gonna continue our meetings and collaboration with nonprofits in the community as we've done in the past. And each, it doesn't matter what rank you are or what classification all of our staff have been involved in that. For years and we're gonna continue to do that. And I'm proud of my team. I think that they're doing a fabulous job. And when we have to make corrections or changes, we implement those changes and move forward and learn. Thank you. In regards to slide number four, if we look at the numbers from 2020, when we go back to when Rosalind and really district one was annexed, are any of these numbers incorporated into this report? Yeah, so this is, you know, once the switchover happened and I believe it happened in November of 2017, it was right after the Tubbs fire. And we annexed Rosalind. So those numbers are included from 2018 on. Those numbers include the Rosalind area. And lastly, but not least, now with the inclusion of Rosalind and district one into the city of Santa Rosa, I definitely want to make myself available to those efforts of being inclusive to the community. And if there's something that I can do to help the efforts of the Santa Rosa Police Department, please know that I'm at your service. And I appreciate everything that you do, Chief. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Chief. I had, well, actually I see Council Member Sawyer, did you have additional questions? Thank you, Mayor, just one quick question. It was, it had to do with the recruitment as well. I'm curious, Chief, if you're aware of our retirement tiers, if that has had an impact on laterals. So you're asking if our, can you repeat that please? Well, it's because of our tiered retirements, if they, when they come in, if that has had, when once they are aware of how our retirements work, whether that has had a negative impact on your ability to get laterals to come to Santa Rosa. Yeah, I don't think the, I don't know if the tiered, again, I'd have to be speculation on my part. I don't know, based on the information that I've received personally through exit interviews and entry interviews, the tiered, the tiered piece of the retirement system is not something that has come up. Again, what has come up is the fact that, you know, there's people are getting closer to retirement and deciding, you know, to leave and or to instead of staying a few more years, they're opting to leave closer to that retirement age, which is, you know, from the newer officers coming in, again, we'll have to wait and see what that looks like. But again, you know, the general feeling that we received from our survey was that, you know, people are, they're not comfortable.  And so we have seen that with some of the other officers who are, again, two in the last month. Okay, thanks, Chief. All right, thanks, Chief. I just have a couple of questions. One of them, we've sort of, we've talked about this 50-50 split, proactive and reactive. And you and I, one-on-one, we definitely talked about officers getting an opportunity to be more proactive and more involved, boots on the ground in the community and integrated in other things. Can you try to quantify for me where you see the split right now between proactive and reactive? Is it 75 reactive, 25 proactive? An understanding that the PRA and BodyWarnCAM helps distort that a little bit. So I don't have, I can't give you an actual split.  What I can tell you is that I have a scanner that's on it in my office and I have a radio that I wear and our officers are, our staff are going, they're going from one call to another and then when they're not going on a call, they're in here completing their reports and then they're going back into service and getting another call. They, again, we average hundreds of calls a day, which is significant. We are the busiest department in Sonoma County. We're actually in, you know, we're the largest jurisdiction north of San Francisco within California. And so we are a significant, you know, we're the county seat. And so we get a lot of calls. And so I don't know what that percentage is. We would have to do another staffing study to actually get what, to get those percentages for you. But I can tell you that, you know, they anecdotally, the officers are telling me when they're coming in that they were going, hopping from one call to another all day long. All right, I appreciate that, Chief. And one of the things that I'm particularly interested in is talking about the staffing model in a way that lends itself to talking about service delivery as well for me, I appreciate knowing how many officers there are. But the key component that I want to know is how do we develop that better relationship with our community? And if that means adding officers to free up time to do additional things in the community that are proactive, that are community engagement, or that are community oriented, I kind of want to hear what that model would also look like as we go forward. And I think that that's part of what the Kahoot's conversation is designing to do is putting officers in a position for success to build those relationships. So I'll want to hear more about that as we continue to talk through this. If I could just make one comment on that, Mayor, it's that I completely agree. I think that that is something that we're trying to look at. And as we've, again, over the last several years, we've utilized the school resource officer program in our gang unit to be part of those, you know, when our staff is too busy, they're the ones that are going out and making contact and doing the community engagement with our neighborhoods.  We do, you know, we've done community police experiences and all of those are, you know, dependent on the ability to staff appropriately. And so we will continue to look at that. And but the engagement piece of it is highly dependent on the ability to free up our officers. So we're not doing it on overtime. Yeah, I appreciate that. And many of the community meetings that I have neighborhood meetings, I hear from residents a desire to see a police officer walking around, not just driving through their community doing enforcement but actually walking around saying hello and having that personal feel. And I understand that that takes officers beyond the amount of calls for service that we're replying to. You mentioned a couple of times that one of the challenges is the increased density that's coming in our city. And if you could just walk me through that a little bit, it did not, maybe there's a disconnect for me, but the, I'm sure the calls for service will increase as the population increases, but at the same time, the amount of density or how dense certain areas of the city are, is that going to significantly change your staffing model or are you still going to have the same amount of officers in that beat able to respond from call to call? Again, a lot of it has to do with our calls for service, right? So the calls for service will, you know, the more people that you have in one particular area, the higher calls for service that you have. So if you have higher density areas and then it also goes back to the community engagement that you're talking about, you know, people want to see you out and about that higher density area. If you have apartments inside or enclosed areas, you know, how do you get in, you know, how do you approach the approachable and how you engage people in those particular areas? So, you know, when I talk about, you know, the need for additional staff for those things, it's not only responding to calls for service, but also the engagement piece of it and also the perception of safety, which goes back to, you know, seeing an officer. I've been to many calls, many meetings where people have asked, we want to see more officers at a particular park, you know, and, you know, if there's, and that goes along the same line. So higher density will, I believe result in, you know, additional calls for service and the need for, you know, it could be the beat may be smaller, right? So if you look right now, we have nine beats in our city.  We have beat officers assigned to that. And then we also have our downtown enforcement team, which addresses a bunch of quality of life issues and also, you know, other calls for service in that downtown corridor. So the more people that you have in a particular area, there's a high likelihood that, you know, the beats might get smaller and we'll need more officers for those particular areas. Okay, thank you. And then you brought up specifically the contract over time for officers being, being something that this year in particular was gone with Ironman and Wednesday night markets and the fair all being canceled. Typically that contract over time is paid for by those events, correct? Yeah, that is correct. The biggest issue for us is having the staff to do it. So they pay for our staff. However, you know, what happens is usually at the end of summer, we tend to have burnout because people are working continued assignments. And, you know, if you're at an adequate staffing level, you'll have people who will sign up for overtime. But if we don't have people sign up, we end up mandating people for that overtime because it's contracted out. And then you have basically staff that may be doubling back or they may not have a day off. They may be, you know, not just not able to take that time off, right, because they're mandated to work it. And so they're without forcing of working overtime. It becomes, that's one of the things that can impact morale. And so the issues that we started to see in 2019, specifically, especially with all the fires and continuing to try to do some of these other special assignments or special events was that, you know, people weren't signing up for these events. And then we would have to force them to work those events. And it's a heavy load. Not only do we have people working the actual event, but, you know, with, you know, it seems like forever ago, but, you know, I think we can all remember the issue at in Gilroy, you know, with the active shooter there and other major events that have occurred in other parts of the country. And so there is a significant amount of planning that goes into each one of these events as we get prepared for it. And so that's where we pull the 10 people for the incident management team. We may have additional staff members that are working an operation center. And those positions are not being funded through the contract overtime. The event organizers are paying for the officers on patrol for that event, not all the extra efforts that we're putting into that to make it safe. All right, I appreciate you saying that. That might be an area that the council wants to look at further when we have these event contracts come before us to see whether or not we want to sign on is making sure that we are being adequately compensated for our staff time, not just at the event, but in preparation as well. Have you with the being down roughly 30 officers in terms of injuries and other that you mentioned, have you seen a significant influx in overtime to fill some of those positions? And if so, is it cheaper for us to hire somebody if we can retain that can attract them and retain them and by how much? So I don't have the numbers to be able to tell you how much we would save, but I can't tell you that we do use overtime to address our staffing issues because you don't have somebody for that beat, then we're gonna have to fill it. And so we'll have to fill it with the overtime. And we are running, we pretty much, we need officers every single day in some, you know, usually every single day in some form of fashion on a particular beat or a particular shift to fill in. We try to use our investigators and our traffic unit when it's like a last minute fill that we have to do. But then again, that takes away from that special assignment. So we do use overtime to backfill and that's been a significant piece of our overtime that we've used. And I can definitely have that information as we go into the budget cycles and mid-year budget discussions, have that for you and we can get actual information on where we're gonna save money and where we're not. And I think, was there a second piece to your question, sir? No, I think you touched on it. I think that that's exactly it is that when we go into budget, if you show us that if we can hire two additional officers, we actually reduce the overall cost to the city because those slots are being filled currently at time and a half for overtime. I think that that's a pretty easy discussion for the council to have. If we get better coverage, less burnout from our officers and a reduced cost to do it. And so I'm just wondering where that nexus is between providing overtime because it's easier than retaining or attracting a new officer versus having that extra position that's put in there. Madam Vice Mayor. Sorry, just to piggyback on the overtime from a mental health standpoint, I think when we mandate a lot of overtime and we don't have the officers, it increases a lack of good judgment, increases the likelihood of mistakes, ability to have the empathetic and compassion, compassionate to the people that they're working with and also how they engage with the community. And that's my standpoint when I work a lot and how I have to engage with my children. So firsthand, I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And our overtime hasn't, as we continue to address that, our overtime budget has not been increased. I mean, everything's been, to help the city address some of the shortfalls, we've had to decrease in numerous areas. And again, we're limited in our, we've been reduced in our staffing, in our equipment, in the training and then also in our overtime. So it's impacting us in all areas. All right, thanks, Chief. My last question for you, you mentioned for a field trainee for a recruit, it's 18 months typically start to finish for them to get out of that trainee status and then it's 18 months of probation. How often do people fall out during that 18 month probation period or how often at the end of it are they not retained by the department? Well, we've had, we usually have pretty good success with our probationary period. Again, we set them up, but we try to set our training up so we can make them successful. And so a lot of times because it can take up to 18 months, we have a, it's generally a four to five month field training program, right? And so we have, it's four months in the car plus about three weeks of kind of onboarding training with some of the implicit bias training, some of the training that the city does. And then if we have to extend people, then we will extend people another month or maybe even two months. And then, and we have a pretty good success with keeping people on probation. We have had a couple of people who have not successfully completed the training program or the academy. We had one last year who decided after a week of being in the academy that that person decided that police work wasn't for him. And so we lost a person in the academy. Sometimes we have lost a few in the academy due to injury from time to time. That does happen. And then we, there's been a couple of trainees over the last year that we have lost that weren't able to successfully complete the field training program. So it does happen, it's a, we try to keep it at a low percentage. And that goes back to the recruitment and the hiring procedures that we have to make sure that they are successful. Great, thanks Stephen. And then actually I do have one more just on the morale question. And in particular as it pertains to the conversation about moving towards this Kahoot style model. My first couple of years on council that is the thing that I heard the most in terms of morale from officers was the challenges around addressing homeless services calls when that's not what they had signed up for and that's not what their training was. I'm not on the public safety subcommittee. We don't get to have those conversations typically at the council. And so I don't wanna make Sue nervous and go too far into them. But just in general from the survey that you did or from conversations that you have with officers would that type of a program help increase morale as well within the department? So I can tell you that we're all anticipating and excited about having a response model that will help us alleviate any type of calls for service. And so that is definitely something that my entire staff would be, they wanna have here. Again, we don't know what that means for us yet. Again, we have to look at how to actually make it work for Santa Rosa. And then the other piece that we have to worry about and be concerned about is how do we get our partners to agree to doing that type of work? One of the things that we've worked on in the past is the county has a local support team that works with us. But very early on when that team was created and it's a very valuable team, one of the things that came up was that they would not respond to a call without the police department. And so that if an outside entity makes that decision there's little we can do about that. I think part of the concept here is let's find out how we can all work together, get everybody on the same boat and agree to what this looks like. And so we're working on that through the next few months. Okay, I appreciate that. And the independent auditor is housed in the city manager's office, not in the police department, correct? That is correct. It answers to the city manager. Okay, great. Any other questions from council? All right, Madam City Clerk, we'll go to public comment. And I see Michael followed by Kimmy, but I'll go ahead and let you pull up the window first. Okay, looks like Michael's hand went down. Oh, there it goes. Michael, we'll go ahead and go with you first and then we'll come back for Kimmy second. Hi everybody. I'm not at all saddened to hear that quality of life and outreach efforts by SRPD have been impacted by their budget. Enforcing city ordinances that target our homeless population due to quality of life concerns are inherently violent, even more violent than this pandemic. Yesterday morning, the homeless encampment by Olive Park was swept. And you can all see the weather outside right now. It's pouring rain and you're well aware of the freezing temperatures. This is not the first time any of us have seen the encampments being swept just before the rains come in. And if you ask me, there ought to be an investigation into the possibility of intentional use of weather as a weapon against the homeless during these sweeps. Speaking of investigations, this city should prioritize investigating the Human Rights Commission report on policing the Black Lives Matter protesters. Outreach efforts such as ethnic studies with a cop are performative. And the photo ops with thin blue line flag are just downright damaged. These efforts are not addressing the root of the problem. And for many reasons, they're backfiring and reducing trust even more to the extent that outreach efforts are hampered by the budget. And those outreach efforts are a distraction from the real issues. I really don't see the loss. And if people don't wanna join the police department because they don't wanna be part of an institution that is held accountable by the public, I think that's a shame. I think that's the real problem with public perception of the police is that police are entitled to do what they wanna do and not be held accountable to the public. That needs to change. And that's not easy, but that needs to change. We need to defund the police and refund the people. We need money for services and not sweeps. I yield my time. All right, thank you, Michael. We'll go to Kimmy followed by Rex. Kimmy, go ahead. Hi, can you hear me? Yep, there you go. Hi, so there's a few things. First year response to homelessness has been raiding encampments and further displacing our residents who are struggling, just like Michael said. It's really frustrating for community mutual aid efforts who work so hard to keep these people warm and dry for you only to come and raid them and throw away the tiny protection they have, especially during something like these very severe weather warnings. Chief Navarro and his staff love to talk about protecting private property when it comes to business owners, but forget that it's property destruction when they throw away the tiny bit of personal property that our shelterless folks have. These sweeps are harmful and they just affect our most vulnerable, especially spreading the coronavirus. So with that, and people die from exposure every year in this county from being shelterless and being exposed to this weather. So we need to look at reallocating our funding from law enforcement to a model similar to CAHOOTS, which actually Chief Navarro in 2019, it was reported that CAHOOTS took 24,091 calls that would have otherwise went to stream in Springfield, Oregon, which is about 20% diversion from those two areas. So you received 137 calls, 1000 calls last year and I'm curious to see this breakdown and see how many are related to mental health and homelessness. And we've asked for this before, we asked for this last year, the breakdown of these calls and no one has taken the initiative to really break that down and look for it. And so to everyone here, when talking about pay and benefits and compensation, I want to make very clear, so my field of study was social work and many case managers and direct service providers get paid around $15 to $18 an hour. So let me say this again, case managers, not law enforcement, but the folks you contract money out to like Catholic Charities, for example, case managers for families seeking assistant for domestic violence, sexual assault and homelessness get $15 to $18 an hour for a position that provides direct services and requires a degree. That means college education, right? So living wage needed for this county is calculated about $25 an hour. So we know we social workers and case managers are also dedicated and professional people who lack support. And if we're looking at making a robust approach to this community, we need to look at that as well.  Lastly, Chief Norrell, you said that the things that are happening nationally are affecting you locally, but do not forget that locally you did tear gas into projectiles at teens and young adults here in Santa Rosa, leading to severe injuries such as needing facial reconstructive surgery and someone getting their testicle removed because of your actions. So do not discount your own actions in the distress that this community has towards you. Thank you. And I yield my 15 seconds. All right. Thank you, Kimmy. And we'll ask the question about the breakdown of calls when we come back from public comment. Libs followed by Allegra. Hi. Can you hear me? Yep. Thank you. So my name is Libby and hearing Police Chief Norrell talk about really everything is incredibly aggravating. I'm really appalled that y'all are asking for any sympathy after what you're doing to houseless folks. You made a raid happen the other day and it's raining outside. There are people that are now going to be suffering under unfair weather conditions that a lot of us have the privilege of staying away from with yourself included. So to say that you need more support to terrorize houseless folks, honestly, that's a disgrace and you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I won't swear at you because frankly, you're not worth my rage. But what I will say is that if you want to do something good for your community, stop asking for more funds to do messed up things to people. It's so disappointing. And another thing that people keep not talking about in these meetings is that police officers and law enforcement were born out of white supremacist values and they still enforce those values to this day. The police start off as slave catchers that has not changed. They still enforce methods. They still enforce the prison industrial complex. They still put people in prisons without good conditions to live in, keep them away from their families, away from contact from their families. And also I'm pretty sure prisoners were going on a hunger strike not too long ago and there hasn't really been a lot of talk about that. You need to bring up the Human Rights Commission report in these meetings. This has to be talked about. We've been waiting since the summer over six months now. This has to be talked about now. Stop pushing it off. Be held accountable. I yield my time. Thank you, Libs. Allegra followed by Kelsey. Hi, good afternoon. I just, I want to question the assertion that we need more police or more policing, period. I heard Chief Navarro bringing up the difficulty in dealing with homelessness, but it seems that he does have plenty of officers to continually raid encampments that people set up so that they can have a semblance of stability in their lives. It seems there's enough officers to use chemical weapons and other weapons against the community, including children during the protest this summer. There were enough officers to harass members of the public in Roseland where I live and I witness this regularly. And during all these actions, by the way, the officers are frequently unmasked and otherwise not following the protocol. The staff perception is correct. The community does not support police who commit violence against us. So I'm glad it's hard to recruit people to do a job like that. And I ask that the city council consider the benefit of fewer officers on the streets and to deny any future requests for more officers. Thank you. Thank you, Allegra. Kelsey followed by Catrine. I can hear me. Yep, go ahead. Hi, my name is Kelsey Barrow and I was born and raised here in Santa Rosa. So what underpins the question of staffing of police is the question of what police do and what we want them to do. And I think there's been a lot of discussion around that. Things like measure P passing, discussion nationally have spoken to this a lot and it's not, the answer that has been coming out is not more police or more policing. They are not social workers. They are not mental health specialists. They are not trauma informed. They're not advocates for sexual and domestic abuse survivors and they are not culturally competent to say the least. Forced incarceration and violence, they don't solve social problems like poverty, homelessness, mental health crises and racial injustice. We use violence, including incarceration to punish and abuse the most vulnerable in our society and our community instead of helping them, which means we use the money we have to hurt them and then say we don't have enough money to help them. About the issue of community engagement, what we would call PR basically. Again, I want to echo what others have said about the fact that we don't need a better perception. We need different actions. The criticism and the scrutiny on policing is completely warranted. And instead of changing, doing puff pieces to change the perception, we need to address the actual issues that people are calling for. And about the question of more police on the streets, I would just like to say you need to be looking at who is talking about that and what populations are being surveyed there because we know that some people are safer or at least feel safer with cops around and other populations are less safe with cops around. They do not need more contact with police. They need to be listened to the people, the groups of people who are actually being harmed, especially communities of color and unsheltered. For years, people have been asking for reforms and the opportunity for minor reforms is far over. Now it is time for real structural changes. And that's what we're looking for and not hearing it at all here. I yield my time. All right, thank you, Kelsey. Catrine followed by Gregory. Hi, can you hear me? This is Catrine. Yep, go ahead, Catrine. Hi, thank you so much. I'm a longtime Santa Rosa resident and I'd like to comment that Chief Navarro talked about the lack of support from our local community and the need to build trust and relationships and how the national issues are impacting us locally. I would respectfully like to add that what police do locally is impacting us locally. Chief Navarro, his department and the Santa Rosa city council still have a lot of work to do when it comes to addressing community concerns about the actions of local law enforcement. It has taken well over six months of continuous postponement to finally get the Sonoma County Human Rights Commission report about the excessive use of force by SRPD and other law enforcement during last summer's protests on the agenda for the city council to discuss in March. We need more than listening sessions. We need more than marketing campaigns and symbolic gestures. We need real change. We need to ban the use of tear gas and rubber bullets. We need to hold SRPD accountable for their actions against Black Lives Matter protesters last summer. And they're in action and false statements regarding those who use their vehicles to attack and plow into those same protesters. My daughter and their friends were part of these protests. We have teens in Santa Rosa that were politically active that were tear gas during last summer's protests. This needs to be addressed publicly. So if the city of Santa Rosa and SRPD truly want to build trust in relationships with this community, we need accountability and true change. Thank you, and I yield my time. Thank you, Katrina. Gregory, followed by Elizabeth. Thanks. My name is Gregory Farron. Here's some thoughts in there. Basically three Fs, fear formulas and facilitation. There's a lot of fear here. The folks on the left who are demanding to defund the police are frightened as heck and you're hearing it. The folks on the right or over on the other side who want you to refund the police are equally frightened that you're not going to maintain police levels. And that's coupled with or added to by the fear of the police department and the sheriff or the chief that the community is going to abandon them and we're not going to keep good officers. Then there's the rest of the community who's frightened that you're not gonna find solutions in this.  The second is a formulas. With all respect to the chief, a lot of the data that you're getting, a lot of the historical data is based on formulas that don't really work when you're changing the nature of what police do. I was reminded by a friend who said that, in the 1800s in Santa Rosa, we had about 40 horses and they were, the police department used it. Horses were very popular and we had about 40,000 people. So we had about a horse per thousand people. And there was a, almost a formula that said, we need more horses when we get more population. We're doing the same thing now. We're sort of linking population to police officers and that's really too simplistic. You can't use formulas that don't take into account today. And the changing nature of what police do makes a lot of the formulas kind of useless. The last is facilitation. I want you to think about what the chief said and others about if you're going to go to a new kind of response and you're going to use the county staff, you really have to facilitate a conversation that makes everybody accountable. Your facilitation is far beyond what you have ability to control directly. And you need to make sure that you give yourself enough time for that because this isn't gonna work if we just dream that we're gonna have an integrated community and county and city response to homeless or to any other issue that the police get drawn into. Thank you. Thank you, Gregory. Elizabeth, followed by Rex. Good evening, Santa Rosa City Council. I'm Elizabeth Escalante, a commissioner on the Sonoma County Commission of Human Rights. I wanted to echo the same request. Most of your community members are calling out for for that review of the human rights report related to the protests that happened last summer. Maybe you've read it once, maybe you've read it twice. I implore you to review it the fourth, the fifth, or even the 10th time. Also, just that reminder too, and an ask, please, you know, please don't put your vulnerable communities through another listening session. There has been lots of time to open that. Your community has been talking to you. Your community has been providing you input and input with that being suggestions and the next action steps, you know, towards building trust again for the SRPD. Homeless sweeps in Olive Park, I'm greatly disturbed by the images I see and the stories that I hear. This is not exactly that first step towards building the trust with Santa Rosa and the rest of your community. I implore you to review on this. I also ask that, along with the report from the commission of human rights, that an independent review of the actions of the SRPD be taken. Officer Navarro, you have also spoken about working with other agencies to, you know, for improvement, at least from what I hear. The Sonoma County Commission of Human Rights still stands. I invite you to open the dialogue with us and continue to build trust once again. Thank you and I yield the rest of my time. Thanks, Elizabeth. We have Rex followed by Lee. Hi, can y'all hear me? Yep, go ahead. Okay, I just want to take this moment to say to anyone who wants to become a police officer that there's so many other things you could do that it could help out your community. You could work at the library. There's a lot of schooling you can do for that. You could go into schools and help children grow up to be fully functioning adults. And to any police officers who are worried about losing their jobs, pick a different one. Pick one where the community will eventually trust you because I can guarantee you that my side of the community will never trust you. We have never trusted you and you've never given us one single reason to trust you. And as far as the houseless people getting swept all over the place, do you really think that they feel like they're a part of a community that a police officer is in? Those are two different worlds, ridiculous. That's all I have to say. All right, thank you, Rex. We have Lee followed by Maritza. Hi, can you hear me? Yep, go ahead. Thank you. I want to speak as a member of the disability community. I have a hidden disability. I have extreme concerns over of the lack of education regarding disabilities that the law enforcement has. They're not educated to help with anything that has to do with mental illness. And in fact, some commands are would be confusing and unknown. We've seen the murder of one autistic young man in Colorado this past year and we have an incarcerated autistic youth. Both of them, those two young men are black. One was and is black. I have a huge concern about the lack of understanding about hidden disabilities and how they express themselves and how confusing that would be to somebody who is not educated. It's a life and death situation for community members who are not white, who do not have privilege and who also have disabilities to interact in emergency situations. We've seen time and time again when emergency calls have been made and law enforcement has arrived and the person who is needing the care has been injured or killed. So it is time, it's past time. The reform would have reformed. We're done with talking about reform. We're talking about spending money to prove that we care for each other in this community. And those are actions that we take, provable actions. And yes, it's fear. You should be afraid. Fear does need to inform you. We do need to be afraid that we have community members that are in danger of getting killed. That is important. So I want us to use our fear and go, oh my God, we need to do something. We need to have people who are educated. We need to have people who understand mental health and we need to have, I basically, I'm just echoing also what everybody else is, very, a lot of people in the community have also said for the last six months, again. And most importantly, please publicly discuss and respond to the human rights violations report. Thank you and I yield the rest of my time. Thank you, Lee, Maritza, followed by Craig. Maritza, are you able to unmute? Okay, Maritza, we'll come back to you.  Thank you. Can you hear me? Yep, go ahead, Craig. Oh, okay. I wanted to start by saying thank you to Chief Navarro and the Santa Rosa Police Department for all that you do. Your school resource officers have been a really positive and supportive influence on our children. And this is an important point of contact between officers and students. These are often the first interactions that students will have with police officers. And they often set the stage for students to feel respect for and eliminate possible fear of law enforcement. So I just wanted to thank you for that. Secondly, the police bashing that I'm hearing in these comments is shameful and pathetic. I sure hope those complaining never need the aid of a law enforcement officer. Ultimately, unfortunately, they will come to your aid because please do their job. Regardless, regarding the homeless in Santa Rosa, Santa Rosa has the fifth highest homeless population per capita in the United States. There's a reason for this. We have multiple shelters, Catholic Charities, homeless advocacy groups, our very own and very limiting injunction, in addition to the Ninth Circuit Court Injunction and an environment that encourages lifestyle homeless to flock to Sonoma County. Santa Rosa has spent about $150 million in the last five years on homeless services and our homeless population has increased significantly in that time. Point-in-time counts do not accurately reflect not just the number of homeless, but the fact that a majority of homeless here now are not from Sonoma County. Santa Rosa cannot solve California's homeless problem. And that's what is happening here. We're trying to solve the problem of the state because we are taking care of homeless people that are not from here. And we have a growing population with no real solutions. We need to allow our law enforcement to protect citizen taxpayers and families because that's what we have. We need to be protected. The vast majority of Santa Rosa's homeless are not fire victims or recent job loss victims or temporarily down on their luck. The majority choose the lifestyle and reject opportunities for shelter and services. We can't afford to permanently support individuals to contribute to disproportionate number of crimes, calls for service, environmental destruction with human waste and damage to public parks and waterways. I live here with my family and I cannot in good conscience allow my 13 year old daughter to walk to the park with her friends due to the dangers of mentally ill homeless living there. The homeless are not all innocent victims here. We need to support law enforcement and allow them to protect everyone. We simply want accountability for all members of society, not just the house. It's a double standard that must be changed. I yield my time. Thank you, Craig. Maritza, followed by Bailey. Hi there, can you hear me now? Yeah, there you go. Okay, perfect. So what I have to say is nothing that is recited or written down, this is speaking for my heart. It's very amazing to hear how many people bash police officers. When we are in danger, who do we call? When we need something, who is there for us? Who risks their life for us? And I am someone of color who is speaking. I'm not sure the other people who are speaking what they are, but I am a minority and I stand with police. They protect us without them. What are we going to be doing? Do they really know what they're speaking on? And I would like for them to live in the police officer shoes for one day and see how they feel all of the emotional and physical things that they have to go through. And about the homelessness, none of my family members feel safe going out and walking. When I was pregnant, I couldn't go out and walk. Why? Because I was scared that something would happen to me. It is something where it is an issue. And for people to say that police officers are disrupting their homes, it's, it's disrupting our homes. We want to live peacefully. I just do not understand how people can bash those who are protecting us and defending us. Where are things going? And like I said, I am a minority. I don't know what the rest were, but I stand with the chief and to protect our community. If we don't have the protection, what will our future be? That's it. Thank you. Thank you, Maritza, Bailey. Let's go. Hello, can you hear me? Yep, there you go. Cool. Yeah, I would like to echo what most people have said just as far as I'm not sure that we necessarily need more staffing and police, but I am sure that we need money to go to the people who are more educated to help as far as mental health crisis is, such as like the Cahood's model. I know that that was mentioned earlier that they're gonna look into that and I'm just putting forward that. And I'm also, I would also encourage you to pay attention to the human rights violation that has still not been talked about this past year. That's all I have to say, but I yield my time. Thank you. All right, thank you, Bailey. Madam City Clerk, how many phone messages do we have? Mayor, we have 55 voice message public comments to playback. Okay. I think what we will do if it works for the council is we'll take a 10 minute break and then we'll come back for the voicemail public comments before we conclude this item. So let's go ahead and come back at 525. All right, Madam City Clerk, I see a quorum of the council. Could you please call the roll? Yes. Council member Tibbetts. Here. Council member Schwedhelm. Here. Council member Sawyer. Here. Council member Fleming. Here. Council member Alvarez. Present. Vice Mayor Rogers. Present. Mayor Rogers. Here. Let the record show that all council members are present. Great, thank you, Stephanie. So where we left off was starting our voicemail public comments on our study session. If you'd like to facilitate, that would be great. So after that, you watch people listen. Yes, hi, my name is Elizabeth Merrick and I am calling about agenda item 3.1. I am calling to support the Santa Rosa Police Department. And I have friends and family, friends of family who are policemen and I have concerns about needing, I need to give them more support and I'm specifically asking for better staffing that we need to increase the number of policemen to the recommended 188 so that they'll be able to do their work. And I just want to give my support to the Santa Rosa Police Department. Thank you, bye. Yes, hi, my name is Matt and I am calling regards to the public safety agenda items, calling in support of the Santa Rosa Police Department. I've been a resident of this community for 45 years and I want to pledge my unwavering support for our law enforcement officers and staff. I feel that it's critical that the department has the support from city leaders and that the city leaders understand the community needs and expectations, not just those expectations of a smaller faction of vocal people within the community that maybe don't see the big picture. I'm upset with the recent removal of the posts supporting the officers that had to do with the banner. Apparently they had the blue line associated with it or a small group to have co-opted that symbol is not representative of what that symbol means and what it represents to, I think the majority of Americans and especially people here within our community and I think it's critical you understand that the overwhelming support is for the police department, the work they do, every interaction that I've ever had with any member of that organization. Santa Rosa Police Department has been nothing but professional. Thank you for listening to my comments. Hello, my name is Josh Carrillo and I have been a citizen in Santa Rosa for 40 years born and raised here and I'm calling about the police staffing study session and I wanted just to express my love and care for our city. I care about the city very much and I'm really concerned and confused and disappointed in how our city council and our city manager and the leadership doesn't seem to be supporting our officers. I believe that our chief is doing a great job and I think that he is trying to care for our city well, he's trying to care for his department well and I know that there's a lot of things that have been happening around in our world and in our country that we want to continue to grow on and I think that our police department is committed to those things. And I think, I believe instead of taking things away from them like staff and funding, I think it's actually better to equip them and encourage them and empower them so they continue to grow and be better police officers to help us and protect us things like with traffic accidents, with crime in our city, with the fires that happens. I know that our police department is not perfect and I know that they are not people that we are to worship but I respect them very much and I care for them very much and I think that they are endeavoring to do the best job as possible. And so I think instead of removing them, I think it's actually better to help and equip and encourage and empower them. And so I would encourage you as the city council, you as the city manager to really consider how you can equip and encourage and help your police to continue to have them have the appropriate staffing, have the appropriate funding to care for our city better. And then let's work out ways that we as a community can come together and talk to each other and encourage each other and see the ways that we all need to grow together to be a better community. I love the city, I'm committed to the city and I really appreciate you being willing to listen to this message and to take your time out. I hope you have a good day. Bye. Hi there, my name is Chloe Merrick and I've worked in San Rosa for the past 15, 16 years and I'm happy to ask for what's the meeting I'm talking about. I'm talking about the day January 26th meeting. Chief Navarro is gonna provide facts and things like that. Anyway, that's the meeting that I wanted to comment on and to be heard about. I really would love the city council would go on or more support for the police department. I want public support for our officers who have done so much and haven't received a ton of support it seems like over the past, especially the summertime when things were so awful. I would love for the $1 million to be refunded so that we can have the restoration of the six police officers whose positions were lost just this last year alone. I would like increased staffing at the police department so that the officers can properly respond to things like fire evacuations, vehicle side shows, growing homeless encampments and all the crime that comes with that traffic enforcement and just general community policing, policing, excuse me. I know that since 2006 the city of San Rosa has grown a lot and we have cut 15 police officer positions. So it seems like our officers are overwhelmed and that's why we need support and we need more officers. I also know that some officers are weaving to other states or retiring early and we need to show our support to them and get the support our community needs. Thank you for listening, my telephone number, if you need that,<PHONE_NUMBER>. Again, my name is Kelly Merrick. Thank you, bye bye. Hi, my name is Greg and I'm calling regarding the thin blue line flag issue that you guys are discussing. As a constituent of yours, I'm deeply disappointed now that city council is handling this issue given that it was a gift given to the department. It shows the complete lack of compassion that the city has for its employees, especially those men and women who put their lives on the line every day. And it's also a slap in the face to those who work at the police department because not less than one year ago did we lose very little armor to COVID-19. The department has been nothing but heroic over the last few years, especially with their responses to the fires that we've had and the pandemics this past year. My brother also was a police officer but he was shot and killed in the line of duty and he died when he was 24 years old. Before his death, I had no knowledge of what the thin blue line was. After his death, I was given a flag and a symbol and it creates a press for us survivors who have lost our family members in the line of duty. To me, it speaks for my family. It shows support, love, compassion, respect that represents what the officers are willing to do to protect their communities during their day-to-day job. This flag is not associated with any racism or racist behavior. It represents the men and women on a daily basis who fight the thin blue line, which is the thin line between good and evil. These men and women of all races and backgrounds put their lives on the line. There's no ethnicity behind the badge. It's just one heart with one solid mission to keep the citizens that they work for safe. I'm disappointed with the rhetoric that city council is putting out there and with our city that are caving to an outspoken minority of people to remove signs of the thin blue line flag. It is an insult to my family, my brother and all other police officer, survivors who've lost somebody in the line of duty. The flag represents everything that our family and our loved ones sacrifice. And we should strive to represent those people and show how brave, honorable and good they are. Thank you. My name is Jill Moreno. I would like this to be played during the discussion about the blue line flag being taken down from the police department's page. I wanna take this opportunity to call in and let the city council, especially the mayor, know that as a citizen of Santa Rosa for over 20 years, it is extremely disappointing to see the lack of support for the Santa Rosa police department. We need to see more officers on the street and it's up to the council to give us a position. I personally have come in contact with SRPD two times in the last five years. Each time I was pleased with the way things were handled. Police don't just show up on our good days. They show up on our worst days. The officers that I encountered treated me with respect. They didn't rush me along. They didn't judge me because of the way that I look. And they simply helped me. They are the best of the best. I would think the trend of officers leaving the city would be very alarming to you. Yet, what we need are more officers and you don't seem to be giving them to us. As a citizen, I can't help but wonder what is going on behind the scenes. After last week's debacle with the social media posts and then reading the Santa Rosa police department association message to the public, it is clear that you the city council, the mayor and the city manager, don't back the police. As a resident, this is extremely frustrating. What do you gain by not supporting the men and women that protect our community? I had the pleasure of meeting Chief Navarro at a public event in late 2019. I was extremely impressed with him. He speaks so highly of the men and women in his department. From what I understand, he has been with the department for many years. So when you force him to do things that disrespect the men and women of his department, you need to understand there are consequences.  What you have as a chief is an ethical, honest, straightforward, humbled, respected, decent and trusted leader with Navarro. Yet you use him to be a scapegoat of some sorts. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the mayor, the city council, are bowing down to those in the community who do not respect the law and order. What happened to our city? I challenge you as city council members and mayor and the city manager to think about the qualities I just listed above for Navarro. Look in the mirror and ask yourself, can you say that you have those as well? If not, you should probably find a way to become those things. You were elected and we depend on you to keep our city in order. What you have done is create a complete chaos. I want to publicly thank Chief Navarro and the men and the women of the Santa Rosa Police Department.  May God keep you all safe, healthy and get you home to your family's home at the end of your shift. Thank you. My name is Jose. I am calling to show my support for the police and they're finding a tough battle right now with everyone against them. I'm here to support them. They need all our support, all our staffing. They need more staffing. They do a lot of stuff behind the scenes.  So I just want the police to know that I'm here to support them and they need more funding, more staffing and they need to get a win. They need more support, emotional support and that's as far as I got to say right now. Thank you. Hello, my name is Olga. I'm Breeze. I live in Santa Rosa and I'm just calling to express my support for the police department. We need more support, not less. We need more staffing of the communities and I think that anything that is against the police is not helpful for our community. We need to be able to have peace and order and this is the only way. So I fully support the police department and any kind of support that they can get as well. Thank you so much for putting this on the agenda for today or tomorrow, whenever you meet. Thanks again. Bye. My name is Jonathan Flores and I'm calling for concerning the police staff support. I feel like they are understaffed and underappreciated. We need more support from our police to make sure that we feel safe and secure in this community with these crazy times that we are going through with our support for them and help them out because without them, we are nothing. Thank you. Hi, my name is Kimberly and I would like to comment from the police staffing study session. I have been a resident of Santa Rosa since 1984. I live in Rankin Valley and I love my community. I have never called or written into a meeting but I was shocked and saddened at the main comments with Ray Navarro, our police chief, regarding his Facebook post. And I felt that now is a good time to call and show my support. The fact that he was put in that position to choose between supporting his officers or listening to the social media critics and likely was forced to take the image down is maddening. The police were just thanking a community member for a gift but the hot debate and hurtful comments were so sad. Our police sacrifice so much for us each day, week, month and year. They faithfully serve and protect our community. The city of Santa Rosa and the leadership team needs to back them and support them financially and verbally. I could not believe that the city of Santa Rosa stood silent when there were protests, riots and threats made to our officers over the summer as they protected and served us to keep peace. We need to be united as a city. We do not have corrupt officers here in Santa Rosa and we need to support the brave men and women that have agreed to serve our community. They need even more funding now that our city has grown, not less. I have only had positive interactions with police officers and a positive image is what needs to be shared with our community, not a divisive one. I was walking with a friend and was surrounded by a loose pack of pit bulls. Yes, pit bulls. And a police officer had been called by a neighbor and I did not even hesitate to get in his car as he helped my friend and I. He was there to serve. I also met many officers in our community as they willingly coach our kids in youth sports. We want our officers to feel loved and respected so that they can continue to want to be here. There are plenty of cities out there where the cost of living is lower. Crime and homelessness are not issues but we want these amazing, yes stellar officers to want to stay here and serve and protect us. Who do we call when there's an emergency? Who is there to direct traffic when there's an accident? Who is there to evacuate us during the fires? Who is enforcing traffic laws and other laws? Our amazing officers. City of Santa Rosa, please show us that you support them with our tax dollars and work with them to create a place that people want to stay living in. Instead of moving out of state like so many are right now, our police officers need your support now more than ever. Thank you. Hello, this is Kim Graves and I'm calling in support of radio borough and the posting of the blue line flag. I do not think you should have had to apologize for something representing police support. It's absolutely absurd. Members of our community would be offended by that and even more absurd and disappointing that the council would take their side by asking the post to go in need. As Biden would say, come on to the council of Santa Rosa. I just am very, very offended that he had to apologize. It takes something that supports our police department who works so hard to keep our community safe down. So hopefully you'll listen to this and take some motions to... Well, thank you, bye-bye. Hello, this comment is regarding just the SRPD police in general and just a staffing issue. My name is David, I was born and raised in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County and now raising my children here. Just two things quickly want to say that it has been sad to see some just kind of sort of a general low morale of police officers to sort of lacking support in the community and the larger political conflicts, whatever it is, so hopefully see the leadership in that way sort of backing better the police officers and keeping our streets safe and really just hopefully turning back around Santa Rosa, Sonoma County. On that note, just getting in line with more appropriate staffing with comparable cities. I believe the number that would be more appropriate for police officers would be about hiring new folks, getting up to speed on about the 188 staffing total that is more in line with reality. And I don't think it's at that point now. So hopefully that can be addressed quickly and the ball is moving in that department. Thanks a lot and happy 2021 and happy to call again or provide more information if needed. Thanks so much, take care, bye-bye. Hello, my name is Marisa Mendoza. I am calling about the January 26th Santa Rosa City Council meeting in health in regards to police staffing. I am calling to support police staffing. It is very essential for Santa Rosa and its surroundings to have a strong team and for them to be fully staffed and supported. It is ridiculous if it is something that is looking to downsize or not to have their support. They protect the citizens when we are in danger or they are here for us. They need to be fully supported by the city because we need them in all moments. Thank you. Hi, I'm calling to give my input for the police staffing study session agenda item 3.1. My name is Mike Robert and I've lived in Santa Rosa my entire life.  And I just want you guys to know that I am disgusted in the lack of support for the Santa Rosa police officers from our city council and the city manager. As long as a longtime resident and concerned citizen of Santa Rosa, I'm asking that you refund the $1 million to the police department budget and hire more officers to keep our community safe. There is just simply way too much lawlessness in the neighborhoods of Santa Rosa. And this is not the city that I grew up in or that I want my adult children and my grandchildren to grow up in. I love Sonoma County and specifically Santa Rosa. But even I have contemplated moving because of what I see happening around me. The city council and the city manager have been extremely weak and have caved into the vocal minority. The vast majority of the citizens of Santa Rosa support our police. And unfortunately, most of the people that support the police are less likely to make their voices known for fear of retaliation. The vocal minority are often angry and sometimes even violent. The safety of our community depends upon the city council and the city manager supporting our local police. I wanna see our city council and city manager start to support public safety. And if this does not happen, we are gonna experience more loss of good officers. And I think you need to ask yourselves why would anybody want to work in public safety for a city that does not support them? Thank you. Hi, my name is Sharon Bailey and I'm calling for the police staffing study session. And I just want you to know that I have lived in Rinka Valley for 16 years and Santa Rosa for 43 years. I love our city and I'm grateful for all of you who served. But I'm very disappointed in the lack of support for the Santa Rosa police officers from our city council and the city manager. I'm asking you that you refund the $1 million to the police department budget, hire more officers to keep our community safe and pay our officers appropriately. The safety of our community depends upon it. I ask you, I urge you that our city council and city managers start to support our public safety. Please remember you represent us. I ask you to hear our plead. Why would an officer wanna work for a city that fails them? Why? Please get back. Please get some backbone and let's do the right thing and support the man or woman who laid down their life for us. Your work is not laying down your life nor is mine. So let's appreciate those who do. I get the next door app and every time I read a police report, if the officer leaves his email, I emailed him back with a subject line saying, thank you. And then with a short note, I just say, please disregard the hate of the mainstream media and know that the majority of our town needs you and we want you. I thank you for the service and for making our city a safe place. And you know what? The majority of them send me back a quick note saying, thank you for your kind words. So please take care of our pleas so they could take care of us and do their job. You all reap the benefits. We the people pay our taxes and we appreciate if you would just listen to the people and do the right thing and take care of the people who make our city a safe place. Again, thank you for serving us and thank you for making Santa Rosa a great place to live. And again, my name's Sharon Bailey and again, I've lived in Santa Rosa 43 years and I appreciate your listening to this. Thanks and have a good day, bye-bye. Hi, this is for agenda items 3.1. My name is Evelyn and I moved to Santa Rosa in the early 80s and raised my family here. I reviewed the PowerPoint presentation and it is clear that we need more officers. Our city has grown in the number of officers we have not matched that growth. This is a safety issue for community. Without the proper number of officers, our police department is not going to be able to respond in time when people need them. We need to fund our police department appropriately which means they need a larger budget to hire more officers. The Santa Rosa community supports our police officers who have proven time and time again that they are professional, they are a professional department that cares about this community. Hi, I'm a homeowner in Rickham Valley and I'm calling in regards to the police staffing study session. During the recent fires Santa Rosa police responded to my neighborhood, took action with garden hoses and worked to save my neighborhood. This is a testament to their character and servanthood to their community. This past year I watched as members of the Santa Rosa police department mourned after they lost one of their own. Mary Lou Armour who died from COVID-19. I observed as protesters treated Santa Rosa police officers with disgust and disdain. I marveled at the resolve and compassion displayed by the officers toward the community they serve and love. I saw the graffiti that said, kill the police when I went downtown for outdoor dining. I imagined the children of police officers reading this graffiti which demanded that their parents should die. Finally, I hung my head in shame as the city council of my own great city voted to defund the police by $1 million. At a time when police of our great city need support more than ever for all that they have clearly done for our community, we have failed them. They left their own homes to burn during recent fires to save the lives and homes of community members. But when it comes to giving them support so they can better support our community and keep us safe, the Santa Rosa city council has failed. I am calling for the city council to recognize that this community needs the police department who has supported in their efforts to keep our city safe. I am calling for the city council to refund the police because I want my children to be able to raise their children in a city that is safe and has enough police officers to protect our growing population. I am also calling for the mayor and the city council to increase funding to the Santa Rosa police department and make Santa Rosa a place where police officers want to live and serve their community so we as residents can feel and be safe. Hi, my name is Jennifer Roland and this comment is for the police staffing study session. I would like to be on record as being very thankful for the men and women in law enforcement who serve Santa Rosa. Like many, I have been dismayed and heart sick over images across the country of tragic death that seem unwarranted at the hands of law enforcement. In my opinion, there have been some real miscarriages of justice and they should be addressed. However, nuance seems to be totally absent in our present climate. We have lost the ability to hold two things true at once. Bad cops should be held accountable. Good cops should be supported. How can we support good cops by continually making an incredibly difficult job, even more difficult? How can we implement health and reform by slashing resources? City leaders need to be able to understand nuance. You cannot expect it from the loudest voices you hear. It is your job as leaders to be able to sift past mob mentality and discern how to help the city move forward. Discouraging, shaming and defunding our police will just exacerbate the problems we face. We need good police officers and they need our support. We have a police chief that serves with integrity and wisdom. He is not inflammatory, but rather a voice of serving his community. We need to celebrate that kind of leadership and provide the resources such leaders need in order to serve well. Thank you. My name is Laurie and I'm calling in regards to the police staffing study session. I grew up in Santa Rosa and my husband and I have lived here for 31 years. I have been disappointed in the lack of support shown to our SRPD officers and Chief Navarro by the city council. I'm urging you to return the funds removed from the department budget so that our community is kept safe. I fail to see how decreasing our police presence will have a positive effect on the safety and security of our city. I support Chief Navarro and the officers of SRPD and I urge you to do the same. Thank you. Hi, my name is Leonardo and I am calling up about police staffing study session. I have been a resident of Santa Rosa since 2002. I am originally from Sao Paulo, Brazil and have seen firsthand what happens when you have understaffed and underpaid police. In contrast to that, Santa Rosa is a safe city with a professional and friendly police force. We should be supporting them back in the blue, not shaming them and giving them to the world culture that is infesting this country. We're starting to see the consequences of these policies in the bigger cities as crime rates and response times increase. For example, Seattle, Portland, New York and Austin. I am asking that the city council and city manager announce these riots in protest that only serve to further the wider city and behind the police officers and restore the police budget. We need to hire more officers and provide the existing ones with more resources to continue to keep our city safe. We need to be fun. The $1 million that was spent on the budget, we need to make sure that our current officers feel appreciated for the work they're doing and supported by our city. Thank you. Hi, I'm calling about the police staffing study session at the meeting. I wanted to let you know, my name is John L. Roberts and I have been a born and raised here in Santa Rosa. I'm the third generation born and raised in Santa Rosa and I'm so disappointed in the way that you are handling our police officers and how you are not in full support of police. And that I really want to see you refund the police officers back that $1 million into their budget. For me, as a lifelong citizen of Rankin Valley, a volunteer of people in Rankin Valley, I'm pretty disappointed and it's pretty frustrating for me. I was so disappointed when I heard the rema