Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ interview show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. For 10 years, the Chandler Center for the Performing Arts in Randolph sponsored the Vermont Pride Theater Festival. The festival had two different components. In the winter, there was a fundraiser to help support the three performance pieces that would be part of the actual festival that occurred during the summer. Vermont Pride Theater mission was to present on stage the issues and concerns of LGBTQ Gromateurs in a context that encouraged interaction between audience and performers in order to build understanding and acceptance among these Gromateurs, their families, their friends, and the wider community. However, for the 2019 summer session, the organizers of the Pride Theater Festival decided they didn't want just another traditional theater piece. They wanted an original production, a production that was based upon the true life experience of LGBTQ plus Vermonters. So the Pride Theater reached out to Maura Campbell, who was a playwright who had lived in Randolph and who was friends with many of the people involved with the Chandler. She, over a series of months, interviewed 18 identified LGBTQ plus community members who had grown up in Vermont and were willing to tell their stories, stories that range the gamut from coming out stories, falling in love, losing friends to AIDS, incest, trauma, sexual abuse, and a high school senior project to top all high school senior projects. Maura interviewed Howdy Russell, Graham Frichette, Timothy Grennan, Keith Ghostland, Kim Ward, Paulette Patel, Madison Messier, Josh Hoffman, Mark Hackett, Elliott Pepp, Chris Roberts, Ray Merrill, Steve, Stevie D, Stacia Bullock, Nancy Manny, Gail Sherry, Middlebury Pratt, and Gene Mudgeit. What resulted was standing in this place. Currently, the Pride Theater has published copies of standing in this place and is making it available to LGBTQ plus nonprofits, libraries, and schools, so that the stories of true LGBTQ plus Vermonters aren't forgotten. A bit of an acknowledgement. The work of playwright Maura Campbell to develop the script was funded by the Physicians Computer Company. Its transformation into the book form was funded by the Gay and Lesbian Fund of Vermont, the Samara Fund of the Vermont Community Foundation, the Vermont Humanities Council, and the Ann Slade, Frey Charitable Trust. And these are the comments from Maura Campbell about the creation of standing in this place. I arrived in Vermont in January 2019 to begin a series of 18 interviews with people who grew up in Vermont and identified somewhere within the LGBTQ spectrum. As a native Vermonter now living in South Florida, I knew a few of the people well, a few of them casually, but most of them were strangers. When I learned during the initial interviews and countless hours of telephone conversations that followed was that I was aware of little about the gay rights movement in Vermont, other than what I had gleaned from headlines over the years. The fact is that several of the older interviewees had been active instrumental in even history making and their efforts to change attitudes, legislation, and culture in our state. Their efforts not only made a difference in Vermont, but also affected in influence states throughout America. Younger interviewees who had lived their lives out loud from an early age, something inconceivable for the older group are making a difference simply by being themselves. But I also learned was how important it was for these gray folks to tell their stories, indeed how necessary it was for them. And the stories were not easy to tell, nor were they easy to absorb. I believe that everyone shared their most painful and most joyful moments and bravely allowed me to include these in the play. Creating a narrative in the script was a challenge. However, the cast was multi-generational, and as I learned from their stories, I got a much better sense of what had changed and what had remained over the decades that separated them in age. In the end, I realized that what united them beyond their identification with the letters LGBTQ was they felt compelled to stand on the stage at the same time the most safe, frightening, and sacred place imaginable and tell their stories. Many of the cast members told me that the experience changed their lives. I know they changed mine. So that was the narrative from the playwright. Now I invite you to listen to the experience of the three of the people who were part of that production. Thank you. Several years ago, the Pride Theater at the Chandler in Randolph created a unique production standing in this place. And the objective was to document and tell the stories of true, actual LGBTQ plus Vermonters. And joining me for this special edition of All Things LGBTQ Interview are three of the people who were part of that production. And I will introduce them one at a time. First, Graham, if you will unmute yourself and say hello. Hello. Welcome. And Timothy. Hello. No, that's still Graham. Timothy, say hello again. I did. Hello. There you are. And finally, someone who should be very well known to all things LGBTQ viewers. Hello, Kim. Hello, Keith. And Graham. And welcome back. It's been a while since you've been on. Yes, it has. Well, it's always good to be on. So thank you for having us. Okay. So I think I want to start with there were 15 people who told their stories. How did the Chandler reach out to you to be included in this production? And why did you say yes? And Graham, I'm looking at your smiling face so you get to go first. Okay. So I don't quite remember how it is that Mora found me. It could have been through my parents because they have done a lot of stuff with Chandler. But we can just say it was magic. And I was a senior in high school. And I had been doing, I studied queer history in high school and in my senior year specifically. And it just seemed like a really amazing opportunity. And I thought it was a super cool project. And so I was like, why not say yes? Of course, I'm going to tell my story. And yeah. And Mora is the playwright who collected your story? Yes. Yeah, I actually, I got to meet her. I remember us sitting down in the pilot room at U32. She came to my high school and we talked. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Graham. And Kim, if I understand a bit of your history, you had already been involved with both the Chandler and Pride Theater. Yes. I had been doing Pride Theater performances for about four years. And when I caught wind that, oh, we're going to ask Mora Campbell to write this piece. And she sent out Sharon who runs that program sent out an email. Anybody who wants to share, let us know. And I said, yes, of course. Yeah, why not? Were you also involved in formulating the idea of exactly what the Pride Theater at the Chandler wanted to do? No, I was not on the board that was choosing scripts or anything. I would just come in and either I was in pieces because people invited me as directors. I found a piece one year that I really wanted to direct and propose that I do it. You know, it was just more as a performer and a director. Okay. I mean, because my recollection was that when people were sitting around and talking about what plays they were going to produce that year, it was brought up with this group of people already involved that, wait a minute, why aren't we trying to tell local stories? And they had done a similar project working with veterans. So and Timothy, how did you happen to become involved in this project? Well, it's an interesting story in that my boss at the time at work, and I were working on a major crisis with a system at the time. And out of the blue, while we were, I was giving him an update, he says, there's this project we're going to do, and this is what we're doing. And would you like to be a part of it? And the conversation kind of went with, well, it took me by surprise. I'm not used to doing anything like this. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to. So the first question I asked was, who else is going to be in it? And, you know, he said, well, you know, they hadn't nailed down or hadn't, everybody hadn't accepted yet, but they were working. And he looked right at me and he said, well, they're going to reach out to Keith, because I can't remember if they had reached out to you at that point or not. But I said, okay, and so the deal was as long as Keith did it, I would do it. So then there would at least be somebody there that I knew, because that was my biggest fear. It's like, I'm going to stand up on stage with, you know, a group of people that, at that point, I didn't know. And so that was, that was the start of the whole conversation and how, how I was going to be involved in the whole meeting with Moira, piece two. It's like, yes, I'll go talk to her, but Keith has got to be with me.   I hate to use that word, but that's really what it was about. So that was how I came to be part of the process, which, which was amazing, the process. So what was your experience like Timothy talking with Moira? At first it was being afraid to really open up to her. But then as that interview that evening went on here in Montpelier, when we were there, really, it was, she was genuinely interested in hearing what we had to say. That was the first thing that came across to me was that she was general, genuinely interested in what we were saying and what our stories were. And the types of questions she asked, you know, whether they were clarifying or, you know, just, how did that make you feel or this or that? It was, it was an extremely emotional interview. It's the most emotional one that I've ever done. And that's, that's about how that's what I remember. It's like, and, and it was very, it made me feel really good after it was done. Now, Graham, you said that Moira came to Union 32 and interviewed you there. What was that experience like for you? I mean, it was a really good experience. I had never really talked to, because at that time she was a stranger. I was like, I don't know who this is.   And sometimes it's really, and I, you know, I was in high school, it's like really daunting sometimes to talk to someone like that and be like here are all these like little details that some people really don't agree with that some people like really don't understand. But it was cool. And it sort of made me appreciate some of my littler stories inside of my big story to be able to to tell her. So like, yeah, it felt really special. I want you to hold on to that thought about little stories within the big stories. But Kim, out of all the three, you have the most experience with theater and directors, etc. What was your response to the interview with Mora? And was there any aspect of it that surprised you? Well, yeah, when you speak of being a playwright, I knew Mora from years ago. So we had had pieces showcased in the same showcase before. And she'd worked with me in the Vermont Playwright Circle. So I knew her really well, first of all. So that was nice and comfortable. Yeah, let's chat about it.   And I'm older. I'm in my, I'm not going to tell you whole now. I'm going to be 56 in May. And so I was pretty comfortable talking with her about it. Was there anything that was a surprise? I don't know that there was.  So and I've written things where I've interviewed people. I was the biggest thing that it was a surprise was seeing what the script was like when it was done for me, because I knew what she was doing process supplies. But what's this all going to look like when you get everybody together? So that was really neat to see how it, how she really tied everything together. So I'm getting the sense that her, the product that she shared with you was one that you were comfortable with. But I heard you mentioned, you know, that as someone who identifies as bisexual, was that the core of your personal story that was being shared? And if so, what was it you were hoping that the people who were sitting in the audience were either going to hear or what they were going to experience by virtue of you sharing that? Well, you know, one of the reasons I decided I would do the interview because at first I was like, man, I'm sure there's plenty of people or whatever was that sharing came to me again and in email said, Kim, we don't have anybody who's by or pan or anything. Will you do the interview? So one of my hopes was that that element would be in there. Because oftentimes, you're so much more visible in the queer community.  And I was like, yay, you know, but really not. So, so getting that invisibility cloak sort of removed.  No, I'm friends with my ex-husband because we're adults, you know, right?  I'm like, oh, some guys are pretty threatened by that. So yeah, getting that story that's unique to being by or pan out there was part of my goal. And I think it worked fairly well. I think it's it's a difficult, it's a bigger, it ends up being a bigger topic.  I'm, you know, it's like, it's a larger topic to say, I don't fit into this one box that you're thinking exists. So that was some of my hope when I did this.  Was that your story that you wanted to share? And what were you hoping people were going to experience by virtue of hearing your story? I mean, yeah, I think that is the story that I wanted to share what it's, yeah, what it's like being non-binary and trans and having a sexuality that doesn't always make sense to other people and being young and yeah. And I mean, it was the way that my story was presented was, you know, a little bit shifted and like modulated for an older audience, like Mora wrote the show so that people who had like little to no understanding would hopefully be able to catch on and like kind of get what was going on. And so there was like, I don't want to say dumbing down, but there was like a simplifying or sort of like a, we have to start with more of the basics building blocks here for a lot of these folks. So I think with that goal in mind that like the way my story was presented was perfect and was how it was meant to be. All right. Thank you. And Timothy, what was your story and what were you hoping that people in the audience were going to hear and experience? My big thing was in telling Mora, you know, about way back in the beginning. Back in the, was it the late 80s, early 90s? Well, like when I first met you, is that it's a scary thing in the beginning. Doesn't matter your age. It's a scary thing. And that there are certain parts of our life that we embrace at that time because it feels, at least to us, to be safe and a comfortable place to be. And that's why the whole Disney world came into, came into the story because way back then that was, for a lot of reasons, the one place where I felt like I could just be me. You know, it's a fantasy world, so to speak, I guess. And maybe that's what I was living in was a fantasy world. But that's, that's the part of the story that I really hoped people came away with is, is that it's difficult in the beginning.  And then, you know, going to Disney world all the time. And also the piece we're not truly having a conversation with my parents. I'm pretty sure they knew. But it was one of those deals where nobody just ever talked about it. You know, and I know there are people that some people will probably say, well, that's not right, or, you know, but we're all in our own situations. And that to me, at the time, just felt that's what's comfortable. And that's just the way it needed to be.  There was none of that. Yes, you know, we can argue till we're blue in the face, whether it's right or wrong. But it's like, we're just not going to talk about it. You know, and then the whole conversations about, well, how come you don't have a girlfriend? Well, that stopped a long time ago. So there was never any sense that I had that they didn't know, or were pressuring me.  There was none of that. And so that's what I was trying to portray with my story was just how difficult it is in the beginning. And then as you ease into it, and then you find these bits and pieces in places that just feel comfortable, and that's where you want to be all the time, to the point where now it's like, you know, in my age, 59 in May, it's going to be like, okay, because now it's like, I don't I don't have a problem talking to anybody about it, telling people about it, you know, it's, and I guess that just comes with now life in general just feels comfortable, even though we know there are people around that probably would like to see all of us just kind of go away. But you know, it's it's that point. And that was that was the point of my story that I hope people came away with. Oh, for the next question, I think I want to start with Kim, who has the most actual on stage experience. You walked into a room essentially with 14 other people who you didn't know, sharing very personal parts of your life. And then you walked on stage and shared it with an audience, fills with people. Was there anything about that process and that experience that took you by surprise that you didn't expect? Found it really a nice surprise that the group of people that were in the room, like, gelled so quickly together as a group, because when you're in a play, oftentimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes you'll have little groups that split here and there and they sort of get into cliques or something. And this was a room full of people, some of whom I knew, most of whom I did not, but who were here for something different than we're going to create Shakespeare or you know, death of a salesman, we're gonna, we were here to tell our own stories. So that was, it was a pleasant surprise how quickly people came together. And I had never worked, now he's with the director, his name just went out of my head. Charlie. Charlie, I was gonna say that. I'm like, I never worked with Charlie. And so his process of working was also this very interesting surprise, shall we say, very different. So Graham, what was your experience? And was there anything that you didn't anticipate that occurred during the process of rehearsals and production? My experience, I mean, overall was really amazing. I was a little bit surprised because in high school, I was sort of in a very, a very queer bubble. So of course, I was a little bit surprised to be like, one of the three, like trans people in the whole thing, which is kind of, I was like, oh, oh goodness. But it was, it was amazing. And I am really grateful that I met everyone because I feel like I made some lifelong allies. And it's always really good to meet queer elders, don't take that, don't take offense to that. And I'm just, yeah. And so it's like, I don't know, it's amazing. And it seems like I've known a lot of the people for so much longer. But just a lot of, yeah, the whole, the whole process, I think was just amazing. And I was also glad, like Kim said, that we all gelled very quickly, because I think that I was very, like, anxious in a lot of the rehearsals, like, and for the show. Definitely, because I had only ever done, like, I was in musicals, I was in the musical all of middle school, all of high school, but I had never walked into, yeah, a room of basically of adults. I was the youngest person in the production.  But yeah, it was, it was great. It was a good learning experience too. Okay, we may have been adults, but I don't think any of us were grownups. And, and your elders could probably stop by rabble rouser and say thank you to you. So, Timothy, you and I knew each other, but you walked into a room with people you didn't know. And for you, this was the first time you were telling your story in a public forum Mm-hmm. Were there surprises for you and how you responded to that entire experience? Yes, the one big thing that surprised me was the emotional support from everybody. I remember that first, where we sat all sat, well, we were in the church or somewhere, weren't we, that night where we did the first read of the script. And it was difficult to say those words out loud to a group of people that other than you that I think that was the first time we all met was that was that first read through. And it's just everybody was so patient. And I really felt that everyone in that room, regardless of age, understood what we were all going through. And everybody's emotions were probably different.  So that's the big but the but the support that was the thing. And then during the production, you know, during our performances, where we're all downstairs, you know, at the Chandler downstairs in the in the was it the green room or whatever it was, you know, and just kind of chilling and just talking and, you know, laughing and, you know, that that is the one thing about the whole production that I will always remember is that emotional, the feeling of all the emotional support that I think we all had for each other. So talking about support and emotion Timothy, when you were actually on stage, and there was an audience sitting there. Mm hmm. Did you get a response to or from the audience? That's interesting because for the two performances, I basically tuned out the audience. I was concentrating on all of us on stage and everybody's reaction that we were all having on stage. I can honestly say, I did not truly pay attention to what was going on in the audience.  You know, it was like three hours, wasn't it about three hours? Nobody even got up to go to the bathroom. And it's like, Oh, I didn't even notice that. And that's when I started to realize that I had just shut the audience out. And I think part of that was because I've never really having conversations with my family that first night, there were 12 or 13 of my family there. And I only told two of them that I was even doing this. And they all went out on their own, bought the tickets and said, we're coming to see it. And so that's the other reason I think that I just tuned the audience out. It's like, I couldn't, I don't want to say stand, but I couldn't bear to see their response, or whether it was emotional or what was going on, because I was afraid that I would fall apart on the stage and that be all she wrote, that I wouldn't even be able to read it. And so that was, that was my big thing was just I completely tuned out the audience. So Graham, from having done musicals in middle school and high school, did this audience feel different to you? Yeah, it definitely, it was definitely not the same. I just remember feeling, oh, I was so, I was really anxious. And I don't think I could, I couldn't block out the audience like Tim could, but it definitely just felt like more of a wait, like we were delivering this big thing. So yeah, I felt, I remember feeling nervous. But then also, Tim, your story would always, I would always be emotional during Tim's story. Oh man. Yep. Okay, Kim, as the seasoned elder, how did this performance in the audience feel as compared to other things that you had done with the Pride Theater? It was bigger, because we had a huge cast. And for anyone who does theater knows, there are family members coming to support. And it was very similar to other shows that we had done in that it was a very supportive audience. And I am thinking as we're interviewing today about people who hadn't even told family members about what their orientation was, who then invited them to the show to find out there. And so like there was this tension that was like, we'll see how this goes. But it was a very supportive and a large audience. And that was great. But it is different. I like the way Graham put it in that it's you're delivering this thing to this audience. And it's not just that you're giving lines, you're telling something that's very personal. And even if you haven't experienced every story that's on stage, because it's this history of Vermonters, it was very powerful. Yeah, just to have that audience hear it and reflect it back and support us. Was there anyone that you invited to come specifically that you wanted them to share this experience? Well, my ex partner Terry was there. She came. And so I mean, I invited a ton of people because I always do. Hey, I'm going to be on stage. But Terry doesn't often get to come to the theater and she came specifically to see it. So that was really huge, you know, to have her see this whole community of people. She grew up in Vermont, too. So yeah, but everybody knew at that point. I mean, there are no secrets in my family or friends at this point. So there wasn't any of that kind of or, you know, and my story was pretty light. The person I was talking about coming out to is my mother. She's passed away at this point. But she had told I mean, Terry and I were together 17 years. So she had totally accepted her into the family. Yeah. And Terry already knew most of your secrets. Oh, yeah, she knew all my secrets. All of them. She knows Doug. We call Doug our ex-husband. He's not my ex-husband. He's our ex-husband, which pisses off his mother to no end. She wasn't there when they went through things together. But yeah, no, but he loves it. But, you know, yeah, there's no secrets. Yeah, there's no secrets. We're going to have to do an addendum here to the so that's another interview. There you go. So, Graham, was there anyone that you reached out to saying, please come to this performance? I mean, all of my family, I have sort of like a funny family dynamic sort of complicated, but I invited both of my both sides of my parental units and they all came. But I think it was the most important, like I remember asking my stepdad Jim to come because part of the story I told in the show was about me and him. So I was like, please come. They were all there. And how did your stepfather react to your performance? I think that he, because he's pretty shy. He's like kind of private. So I think that it made him, I don't know, I'm looking for like a different word besides special, but it just was like, I think he was a little in awe that like he was part of this thing that was in this big show. And then even if people don't know him, like he's, we're both immortalized, like in this show and our little relationship. Yeah. And you shared with him in a very public manner how important his presence was in your life. So Timothy, were there any people that you specifically invited to come to the performances? No. It was interesting because my thought, and I guess at some level, my hope was that nobody would. Why? That's a good question. I'm not sure I haven't answered. It came up at the family camp when after we had done our interview when we were coming up towards the performance, when I had said to a cousin that, oh, just kind of nonchalantly, I said, oh, by the way, I'm doing this play with Keith and other people at the Chandler Theater in Randolph. And it's happening. And we, at that point, we had the dates and I told them the dates and all that. He's actually the one that got the ball rolling and bought all the tickets and brought most of his brothers and sisters, his brother didn't come but his sisters. And then I had told my aunt on my father's side and her entire family came, including the current boyfriends of the teenage girls that came to the opening performance there on that Friday night. So in the end, it was very, very emotional that they all wanted to come and see it. Because I just had in my head that, you know, from the way back in the beginning days where you just didn't talk about it. And it was like, you know, you didn't tell family because you were afraid of, well, how are they going to react? And it's like, well, am I going to never talk to these people again? There was still all of that feeling. But in the end, they proved me all wrong, which was excellent. I mean, it was, it was good. We got pictures after the show of all of us together, both sides of the family, because the cousin that I told that the family camp is my mother's side. And then the other side and my father's side was there. So it was kind of, it was really, really nice to have participation on both sides of the family. It was really, really important and extremely emotional for me. So as, as we move on to talking about the next questions, you know, I just sort of in passing and your family sat there and watched as I portrayed your mother on stage. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah. And the interesting thing about it all none of us have ever actually spoke or talked about the performance at all. But they don't treat you any differently? No. No, everything's the same. But it's just kind of, kind of interesting that we never, after the fact, we never talked about it. Not a word was said. Is that because they're Vermonters? We just don't talk about anything. I think so. My whole family is that way.   And then you just don't talk about it again. And that's, that's just the way it is. I mean, from what you share during this interview, that's very much in keeping with the family tradition that, you know, there are these issues. There are events that occur. You live through them and you sort of work through them together, but you never really talk about them. Right. It's like, okay, that's done. That's over. Let's move on. Next crisis. Yeah. So Graham, talking about the next time, if you were offered a similar opportunity in the future, would you accept it? Yeah, I think I definitely would. I don't see why not. I think it's always worth it to like revisit stories like open over again and to expand. Right. Obviously, I've grown, like if, if this whole group of same people were like approached again, and it was like, what if we do this, but like a different version, I'd be like, yes, I'm there. So, so you're ready for standing in this place 10 years later? Yeah, that sounds really cool. So Kim, I know, I, I know that, you know, just asking you this question is a little silly because Kim not accepting an invitation to be on stage, but, but what you went through in knowing what you now do, if you were offered a similar project, would you buy in? Yeah, I think I would. I would definitely concur with, you know, it's this particular group was amazing, but I also came out of the show thinking, why am I not writing more about my own personal story as a playwright? And that was something that shifted for me, like I don't need more to write this story, but she's a great playwright. And she wrote her story, which was this, but that's the biggest thing that comes up for me is maybe if I talked about my own queer story, it would be me writing it. And are you in fact doing that? I have been writing some pieces, yes, yes, so we'll see. So, so Timothy, your approach again and said, we want to tell your story, would you accept? I have to agree that if it was the same group of people, it would be a definite yes. Yes. If the players were different, I don't know, because I just wouldn't want, this is a really hard question to answer, because if it was the same group, like we've all said, yes, it would be a definite yes. And I think that's where I went in the beginning. It's like, well, who else are you asking? And then who were you going to interview? Because I just would be afraid there might be conflict between people, unintentional.  But I probably would say yes. Was there any aspect of having done this and lived through it and then gone back into your life that there's something that's changed or something that was unexpected that occurred as a result of having been in this production? Absolutely. For me, it was gaining confidence in the fact that I can tell my story.  That's okay. That's the big piece.  I hate to use this phrase, but I'm going to use it anyway. It's like, you know, I don't run around advertising it because I feel in today's day and age, in theory, we shouldn't have to. But I think that's more of a Vermont thing than a national thing because there are still states and people around this country that, you know, it's not like here in Vermont. Well, I know we have issues in Vermont that I've looked at it as relatively a safe place to be who we are, you know? And so if we can get our story out, if we were to, you know, if ask to do it again, if it helps one person feel like they're not alone, then that's it. That's, then it's successful. And that's kind of what I came away from this at is being on stage with all of us, different ages, different stories, different backgrounds. The common thread was, you know, all from Vermont. And it's like, okay, I truly, you know, in 1989 was I'm not here, I'm not the only one in Vermont. Because I think a lot of us think that growing up and it's like, I'm the only one like, well, no. But at the time we didn't know that. So that's, that's the biggest thing I came that I learned from this. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it for anything.  So throughout the show process, and then after going back into my, my regular life and all the things I definitely had, and still have a deeper understanding of Vermont and Vermont's queer history. There's so much of our stories that goes like, not well documented or not documented all unless you live through it. And I had no idea about like, take back Vermont and all these different things. And so it's sort of, because they don't teach you that Kim is making faces, they don't, they don't tell you about that in school and like the different impacts. And so I had like a better understanding of like, why some town, like just an understanding of, yeah, this town is a little bit more like this, because this specific parts of history and like that stuff happens in Vermont. And yeah, it just more appreciation. And then obviously, like Tim said, I'm like, Oh, thank God, there are like more of us. There's so many of us. I'm so glad. So you get a sense of history and culture and heritage that you didn't even know was out there waiting for you. Okay, Kim. Yeah, I know I'm making these big eyes when you said you didn't know about take back Vermont. I'm like, every time I drive from Northfield home to Burlington, from Montpelier to Northfield, there's this sign that is completely faded now, but it used to say take back Vermont. And I just remember living through that.  And, you know, Howdy, who was in the show was the person who got it all rolling in this sense of continuance and generational connection is exactly what I got. And I missed it as soon as it was it was done. I was always glad to run into Graham in town. Hey, you know, to see people. And I miss it now. And I'm like, I miss all those guys, we've got to get together. And I think that you and I Keith talked about this a lot during the show, which was, yes, we've, we've, you know, supposedly won all these rights. And what we sometimes lose is this cultural connection that is a sub. What is it? It's sort of a result of being ghettoized or having to be in safe places. And now how do we shift that so we can be who we are, but we can also have that sense of community. Yeah. And so hearing you say that you didn't know about take back Vermont makes me go, you know, there's a reason that we have all of these stories in this one piece. It does give a sense of the history. We need more of that. Yeah. Big time. So with that, I want to say thank you to the three of you for spending this time sharing your experiences. And more importantly, thank you for standing in front of a theater filled with people that you didn't know. And telling a story they may not have heard. And for some people sitting there, it was the first time they saw themselves coming back to them. So thank you. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember resist.


So anyway, in the paying attention in the hall, we have somebody out there who you can negotiate business with and actually get a fabulous souvenir of city rights, thanks to you. Yeah, we're selling them at discounted rates, so this is like a conference rate. What? Sorry, copyright's serious. It's a single edition for six dollars and three for fifteen, which is quite a bargain. I have that for five. Yeah, but they're out in the lobby on the side, so yeah, just know that they're there all day and waiting for you. But each of you buy one for me. Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Amy. Okay. If anybody finds a man, found them, there's probably a reward. You will take a fair play from them. Oh. Ah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Kevin Visera. Yes. Will you let me know when I have time to find a man? Yes. Great. Hi, guys. Hi. This is so much better standing behind the podium now. I'm going to have to give this to you to speak to you today. I have so much time here to be here. Thank you. Okay. So this is to talk about National New Play Network and new plays and a couple things that we've been pursuing.  Rob Cates, Lee. I mean, I'm sorry, it's T.D. Yaki. On the far side down there is Eileen Swartz. Eileen is the managing director of New Theater here in Miami, which is our member theater here in Miami. And we're going to talk, they have just completed recently a production of Rob Cates, Lee's Happy, which was a rolling world premiere and they've done several of them over the years. And we're also doing today by Bill Kirschman. There was a South Florida resident writer and critic. And also is the president. No, actually, I'm the chairman of the American Theater Critics slash Steinberg New Play Committee and Contest. I have a lot of other hats, but that's the one that you guys care about. And I'm in charge of the competition hardcore that gives $25,000, which is why you should care. So since Bill's started, let's go there. I asked Bill to come today because the Steinberg Award is the, you know, preeminent New Play Award in the United States right now. And it's really interesting because it's done by critics throughout the country. And so it's not about what plays had the biggest production on Broadway. It's about work that's being recognized in communities across the United States. So can you just give us a little background and tell us what you're doing? Again, the American Theater Critics Association, which is sort of like the AMA for critics, has for, since 1977, had an award to recognize the best produced professional playwright since 1977 in the country outside of New York City. Our feeling is that regional theater works that are created and first produced in regional theaters had very little opportunity to be recognized. And so this was created specifically and to this moment to get, in fact, if your play debuts during the calendar year and makes it to New York, it gets disqualified, which we call the Augustos H County Award, which because Augustos H County almost won the award that year and then it premiered in New York two weeks before the end of the year and that gave it out of the running. So we're very, very committed to that. Several years ago, the Steinberg family, whose name is all over any New York theater that you can hear of mine, very generously increased our award. So it's not called Steinberg. The Steinberg Attica Award, it gets, there are three prizes. They're $25,000 for the first prize. And we hate the word prizes in first, but that's the way it goes. And then there are two citations for $7,500. We get somewhere around 40 scripts a year. They are, and this is one of the things you were talking about, it is not self-nominated, it is nominated by critics. In most cases, it's something they've seen, but if not, we have a very proactive system in which we go out and search for new work that's being done in, I don't know, we probably have 60 to 80 theaters whose rosters and seasons we look at at the end of the year. Again, the criterion and it has to be done in the previous calendar year because we judge it in January and February. It has to have been produced, have a full professional production, not a college production. Its first professional production has to be done during that calendar year outside of New York City. It can have 25 productions that year. Nothing can be in New York. And that's primarily it. And then we have a committee of about 12 judges from all around the country who spend an intense two months reading all of these and we go through three or four ballots. And there are those three awards, I should also point out that there is also the $1,000 of Elizabeth Osborn Award which is given to an emerging player. If you go on our website, AmericanTheaterCritics.org theater spelled the British way, you'll see all our criterion but among those people who are nominated for the Steinberg, we also pick someone who is just coming to national attention. In fact, that's the definition, someone who is not coming to national attention. We also have the Francesca Primus or Kravitz or depending on whether you're a brother or brother, they pronounce their names differently. And that is recognizing women in the theatrical field mostly playwrights, partially for a body of work that's usually contingent upon a particular work in that year, but it's more of a career award again, it's for people. It isn't necessarily for some of those people. I can go on, trust me, forever. I hope I get a chance at some point since I read about 40 full length plays a year and that I'm going to make sure they fit our criteria. I got a lovely list of advice to people on how to get your plays noticed, not just by judges or but also artistic directors, literary managers, anybody who has a slush pie. There's about four or five big mistakes that people make and if I don't get time tonight today, I'll see me, get my e-mail and I'll send it to you. But there's a lot of really easy stuff that the most experienced playwrights don't do well and newcomers don't do at all and it will help you avoid work fault. Great. So, the Stardom Earth is presented every year during the Humana Festival and we at NNPN have become a great feeder of scripts towards that award to the point where this year Jim Steinberg is a part of giving it, gave a little speech about NNPN. So, let me just back up a little bit. We talked briefly the other day. National New Play Network is an organization of right now 27 core member theaters. Again, any company outside of New York that has a dedication to creating, developing, and producing new work. That and producing is a big piece of what we do because one of the criteria for membership in addition to, you have to have at least three paid staff members and you have to be a professional company and use whatever union category you want that sort of thing is that you have to agree to either import or export a new play from another member theater at least once every three years because the original concept behind the company was that there was all this great work that was not getting done, that was dying on somebody's shelf after a world premiere. So, the idea of the second and third productions became the role in world premieres which officially are called the Continued, they are funded by the Continued Life of New Plays Fund. And that means, as you've been hearing, that each production, artistic director gets together, there's a group of artistic directors, a minimum of three partners, at least two of them have to be core members of the organization. And they determine that they are going to produce within 12 months from the first opening night to the last opening night a minimum of three productions of the play in three entirely different cities with three entirely different artistic teams. I'm going to ask Steve and Rob to talk a little bit about their experiences. We have several additional programs as well, including commissions, including producer and playwright residencies. We do an annual showcase of new plays where through a long selection process they are whittled down and they're actually somewhere between five and eight are done as readings in a city where the core members are paid to send someone to part of their membership. You get travel stipends for people to come to the showcases in the annual meetings. There are pretty much guarantees that at least someone from every theater is there closing by the guests. Steve has, I believe, holds the record for being a part of the most of our projects. Beginning with the lowest level career-wise you can step in at which is the MFA showcase that happens every year in conjunction with the Kennedy Center. And that is we have MFA programs that are allowed to submit scripts. They select about six of them. The MFA playwrights are brought to D.C. for a week and they're partnered with a NNPN director, and they're allowed to work on that script for a week to whatever ends they would like. They can do a full public reading. They can do zero readings. They can spend their whole week working on one scene. They can spend the week working on the play. It's totally playwright driven. Or they can give you a Broadway caliber puppet designer to build a bird puppet for you and then spend the week teaching an actor how to use it while you watch. Which is what I did, it was amazing. I didn't know Steve got here. So Steve has been an MFA playwright. He has been a playwright in residence. It's creepy to hear you do it like that. Yes, MFA playwriting workshop, playwright residency for year we're in theater company in San Francisco. Which means that NNPN puts $10,000 towards that theater hiring a playwright which gives them time to write. And then the playwright serves on the staff of that theater in whatever negotiating capacity they determine that they want to work with in the theater. In some cases houses doesn't help them find housing, subsidizes their housing and they go and live and work in that community for a year. And producers now as well. Kevin as we mentioned is here because he's just beginning his second year residency at Actors Playhouse in Atlanta also for a member of theater. You've had how many role of work from years? The third one was last year. The third one is about to start. So Octopus was a role of work from years? No, it was done by several members. The three NNPN theaters but not within a year. Afterlife which is the play that I wrote in the Kennedy Center workshop. And then Wolves this season and Pluto access. Right. Okay. And you had a commission hand? No commission. I love that you said yet. Not on everything. No, I did the showcase for the first time last year and the Australia exchange. Right. We have an international exchange program as well. Steve was able to take Pluto which was done in the showcase. Pretty much immediately became a continued life project with producers signing on that weekend that there were at least three of us who were going to do it. We had Australian playwrights as a part of the showcase last year and then Steve and another playwright went to Australia along with an NNPN representative and presented at meeting a sort of an equivalent of the youth of the new play. Her play Lasso of Truth is also getting a Rolling World premiere this year. Robert has just finished the Rolling World premiere happy. Who was the first in sequence? Well you folks were the first. They were the lead producer but I think they were the lead the lead theater but I think with a calendar issue it actually opened first at Montana Repertory Theatre and then it came down to Miami and then it went out to the 6th Street Playhouse in Santa Rosa and is currently playing at the New Jersey Rep. So when we say it went to it means the play went to not the production so Steve having just come off of Google's talk a little bit about the difference in the three productions in terms of the house sizes and the audiences There were four theater struggles but it was I don't know I thought at the beginning of it that it was a very heavily it is a very heavily prescribed play that has to be a certain way because of things that happen to be in the play there's just it's very specific and what I got was four incredibly different productions that had a lot to do with the performers that were involved in each one but everyone used the same blood which Nan alluded to in her speech the very first theater actors expressed in Atlanta had to figure out there's a lot of blood in the show it takes about 45 minutes to clean up the show after it's done they I know it's just and I also write kids shows it may take an hour and a half to clean up they found out that the San Francisco opera's blood recipe has coffee made in it and some other things that when you cook it up makes it easily it comes out of clothing and it's also edible so that it doesn't show you and die so once they found out that all the theaters shared that information on the website that an NPN set up for all of them to use during the rules and so that was a good example of those theaters sharing I don't know the most different was the one in Los Angeles because it was in a three quarter for us which that play's not designed to be and so I when I first saw the space I thought this is never going to work and then the director made it work but it was really fun Rob the house sizes were having more drastically yeah New Jersey Rep is a very tiny house so it reminds me of like a Chicago store front it's 62 seats you guys had about 150? yeah 100 the house is a lot bigger but we saw 100 again and Montana Rep was quite a big 250 275 something like that so significantly difference in the aesthetic distance between the audience and the actors and I think the playwright asked this the other day if an actor does something good can you steal that I steal all the time from not just from the actors but from directors if they've got something that's particularly good in the staging I'll memorialize it in the stage direction if I think oh that makes absolute sense to do that actors are wonderful with inventing business and so I've taken a lot lots of little bits of pieces of what the actors in various cities have done and embedded it now and will be preserved now in the published version of the plan I'm glad that you said that just because the other day on the panel like someone said what if the director does something really cool and you really love it and I was like take it the only thing that City Theatre tweeted that I said like in direct quotes and I was like super live streamed and streamed great you guys have done a few part of the deal is the funds that come from National New Play Network and NNPN is funded mostly by foundations and generous individuals and most of what we do is refunding so funds come to us specifically for these programs and we did put them out the idea behind the funds for rolling more premieres initially was that it would help you defray some of the costs that you are taking the chance on this new work that's kind of gone away because we have this group of theaters were very successful doing new work now it's become important about getting people places to see things and having the playwright come along you've had multiple experiences talk to me about playwright involvement in your different experiences well it has varied we have been lead theaters I think out of the four or three NNPN continued life that we've done only one of them the lead theater is the first one to go we actually were to be the lead theater but again calendar issue and stuff like that we had another theater company that opened before us communication happens usually the NNPN plays our director of our artistic director Ricky Joe Martinez he's a playwright himself so he's very good at Robert can probably play better communicating a lot with the playwrights so that they're involved in the process and then though they may not be physically in the room and they do a lot of work ahead of time before rehearsals even begin to do any work or any questions or you know what I think he praises everything he's the type of director an artistic director that doesn't tell you you need to fix this, this is wrong and if you don't fix it I'm not doing it that's not the type of director he is what are you trying to say about this and this is what I'm getting from it is that what you intended he praises everything more as a question for the playwright to fix or not fix so he's done that with Robert he's done that with for or better with Eric Holwell and he's done it for several playwrights for Edith which was another one and which by the way if I may say we're very very lucky that we've either been part of the or world premiere of productions which have been winners or awarded Steinberg's and an award nominee for the Oswald as well numerous times so we've been very happy about that and the reason I was saying the thing about talking to the playwrights and keeping constant communication is that I think that it gives the playwright the opportunity of seeing it three, four, five times in some cases and working with different directors and seeing their scripts from a different point of view and finding things they may or may not want to tweet or and see it within a 12 year period span. Where it's been a little different is when we've had a playwright that has been is very very much closed completely in the sense of they've already had the world premiere, they don't want to touch the script at all because they think it's amazing and it's never going to, you know, that there's no issues with it. Which is fine and it's dandy but that's how the communication sometimes worked. It all happened really with the chemistry and the way the playwright works with other people's you know playwriting is very much a sitting-in-your-room type it up or write it out longhand. It's a very singular thing. Once it's going to be produced it's more of a team you have to be very very protective of your baby but you also have to have a little bit of an open mind whether you take the advice or not that you need to be a little open about it. You only have like one case for that and a little hard to deal with. Sometimes playwrights and again it's the playwright's choice in how this project works. We have had over the years playwrights who wanted to be at every rehearsal they could possibly be yet for all four productions. We've had playwrights who are part of the process for the first one sit the second one out maybe just go and see it a couple of times then do a set of rewrites and want to go participate in the rehearsal process for the third. We've had playwrights who got to oral premiere said that's it. I'm done. The script's locked and then they just go and see it. One of the things well you guys talk about that. I wanted to mention that I think you all know that I teach playwriting at the university and one of the things one of the trends I notice in my students is this sort of crippling fear that the production of the play they have to get it all right that first time and one of the wonderful things that NNPN does is that you know this play is going to get produced more than one time and so you actually become I think more courageous in the way that you rewrite and you experiment. I know that one of the things that I've done is I continue to cut and cut and cut and play. The more I see it the more I realize the actors are doing this and I don't need to deal with somebody's words and so you build up my process always begins with the hardest pencil I can find so it's three light trace remarks through and then I shift the pen and now I find it's like with a magic marketer taking out huge chunks because it kind of builds up your confidence again and again and so that's I think one of the great things I know one of the early role I think actually the first who was with the playwright who had done the first one at Florida stage we were working on it and worked like yours where the first two theaters basically were on top of each other we one had a fair state eye opening and one had a Saturday night opening and the playwright was really struggling with the end of the play literally like the last three minutes of the play and he actually gave us two separate endings so the Philadelphia production had an ending and the Florida stage production had an ending by the time they got to opening night which was the Thursday before we opened on Saturday in Philadelphia during the first previews he determined that the ending that had been his first choice the one was in Philadelphia was not working and they scrapped it and put the Florida stage ending on it so it was actually only ever reviewed with the one ending but we went down to the like the last 48 hours with two different endings I was just going to say I mean most of the people know this but you know back in the day playwright would work on play in their garret then they would hook up with producer usually in New York or in their major city and they would talk it together for some time and then and here's the part that doesn't exist anymore you'd get four or five weeks of rehearsal you know you guys know what two and a half when they get new works they do three and that's it and the paradigm as you all know has changed and the expectation I think in theater producers and particularly now you guys are working a lot in regional theaters has got to change to where and you guys in Florida stage talk like this I learned by going over and over again your new work and your new work but as a critic I have to learn to read a ten new work with a different kind of body and you taught your audiences a different way of looking at new work no one who goes to new work now your audience no one longer goes and I'm expecting to see Arthur Miller's polished six month polished version of Death of Sales they know that they are seeing the work that you are expecting at a certain level of quality and professionalism but it's probably going to undergo two or three more changes and I think one of the things that regional theaters need to do is to help playwrights feel like you say free to not feel like that first production and people paying money for it even though I'm coming to see it and probably aligning on it as I have on several of these works it's a new paradigm and everybody in the system from the audience member the producer to the playwright has to really embrace this and because our old system just doesn't even exist anymore No it's suited I'm giving you five Steve So just some nuts and bolts for the playwrights in the room about how you get involved with the national new play network because that's always the tricky thing is just that it's not the important thing to know is that while I more than anyone have benefited from playwrights benefit immensely from the national new play network it is in fact an organization from member theaters it's a theater service organization that sponsors new work and so you can't apply for things directly from the outside of the national new play network the way that you get involved with the national new play look and that may change in the future because we're working on an alumni playwrights council right now that may in fact be able to help playwrights enter the network programs in a different way but for now the way that it works is you go back to your community wherever you came from you find the closest national new play network theater to you you start attending that theater going to see shows there getting to know the people there the theater is the one who's going to take your work and introduce it into the network it's not anything that you can do yourself for me you can also get in through it if you're in an MFA program right now and you get into the Kennedy center summer workshop that can kind of, that's how I entered the network and then I was just lucky enough that there were a couple theaters Actors Express, Marin Theater Company that I had relationships with but the important thing is to find your local national new play network theater and not just walk in the door and say hey here's a play of mine can you please submit it for the for all of the national new play network stuff but it's a developer relationship with that theater and then see where that goes because there's all these fantastic programs but a lot of times players will come up to me and say it's so closed off it's so closed off how do you get involved and that's because it's not for playwrights it's for the member theaters and I just think that's an important thing to throw out in our last play we also have just opened up an associate membership I think I mentioned the other day and there are about 30 it's probably going to go to about 50 pretty quickly associate members which are people who have their theaters that don't have maybe new plays as their mission but they have a new play arm or they're small they want to be doing new plays it's everything from teeny teeny tiny storefront theaters through center station Baltimore and actress theater of Louisville so if you hit the NNPN website it's just NNPN.org and you'll go and there's a page that has all the core members and all the associate members and I mean we have associate members in little tiny towns in the middle of nowhere so there is one close to you and as of this last annual meeting, last two weeks whatever it was we were all together we've determined that associate members are also going to be allowed to submit for showcase so we are starting to let those people in cricket and then two questions I'm assuming we're talking about full length plays here we are talking about full length plays although several of our member theaters and Susie is going to be one congratulations we have the associate members do have festivals and small plays and we didn't get to talk at all about the new plays which are really disappointing if my plays don't produce in little community theaters is it disqualified? if you've had a premiere, yes just write another one like that side so the process is you have some time until Tina shows oh great so the process is so the global theater nominates you and then there's a showcase I know that there's a showcase there's a showcase so people will be submit plays there's a series of readings that it's gone through it's chosen and they choose about six a year but once you're submitted and sponsored by a theater your play, whether it's chosen to be in the final six or not goes into a place that's accessible which takes me to new plays changing let me just give you guys a little brief information because you're going to be hearing a lot about it. This is a mega mega deal we are creating from the ground up what is designed to be the most comprehensive searchable database for new plays in the world is being piloted through National New Play Network in conjunction with Lark Plarritt Center in Minneapolis Bay Area Plarritt's Foundation Chicago Drovidist Literary Managers of the Americas the LAMDA LAMDA whatever their initials are we talked about this core group the CDC that's getting together and building and we are literally building we're not building code ourselves but we're hiring someone to build code many of you probably are on duly Lark has a commercial version that they've been assisting with it's going to be called Congee there's several programs out there that will do different pieces of this but the goal for this is to get you any of you that have been through the college application process in the last few years know about the common app right so there's a common app that you can go in and put basically your information in and then each college might have a couple more questions you as a playwright will go on create your own profile and you as a playwright are then responsible for keeping your materials automated there'll be a whole series of boxes you can check I want people to be able to access my entire play which means you won't then get any sort of notification about who is reading it I want people to be able to access a 10 page sample if you say you want to just put up the synopsis and there's a box then they can contact either you or your agent directly and get your play here's the thing about it they are recommended and it's not like a thumbs up like on Facebook it is a 150 word recommendation and they have to be positive they're not reviews of your play they're not synopsis of your play it will be someone who's a reader who would go on and say well I love this new play I'll use Pluto because we've been working on it the only thing I could say after the showcase reading in DC is I touched Stephen the arm three times and said motherfucker motherfucker motherfucker he made me so angry and upset and moved and it's just a gorgeous piece of theater and I was really angry with him because he keeps writing such a beautiful piece of theater and as the mother of an adolescent it's a very disturbing play so I could go ahead and say that you could just go ahead and say this is brilliant and you guys got to read it you anybody who is accessing the site will be able to follow readers so if you think I love Steve Yockey's play you can check off and every time Steve posts something if you like Liz Engelman who's a major dramaturg and you really think she's interesting if you like your local artistic director that you deal with you just go in and like and every time he likes something you'll get his reviews you can post updates you can post drafts it will initially be totally free because the Melon and Duke are funding it and at some point down the road there may be a nominal charge 5 bucks to set up your own profile but it is good morning Miss Sack come on in we're just killing time you're ready we're ready come on I'm not interrupting anybody want to give me what obviously I'm here 15 seconds as I mentioned at the very beginning I've got a list now of ways playwrights chew themselves in the foot when they submit to literary managers or to contests if you come up and catch me sometime in the next hour I'll give you my business card and send me your email and I will send you actually a half written article that hopefully will say and this is experience for playwrights this is brand new playwrights I read 40-50 plays a year that makes people make that hurt themselves and qualify them is far easy to avoid and some of them are dead obvious but you'll be amazed what people don't do and will help them in that way also when you play exchange you'll be able to do submissions so you can go on and post your play and you say I want to know about contests for women writers every time anybody posts a contest you can either get a notice or you'll have set it up to your play just automatically get submitted you'll also be able to see a full submission of history so when you go on to your page how many of you have submitted twice to the same contest when you go on your page you'll be able to say oh last year I submitted Thresh and Lulupekker to share I need to submit Pluto against Thresh and Lulupekker you'll have your own history and I think that's in the development stage what we have now as far as the exchange with how we share our scripts and how we can put it in there whether it's a national showcase or just something to recommend we use I always call it the wrong thing Basecamp Basecamp and if you can get to one of your artistic directors who's a core member or an associate member they have the ability now to upload and recommend plays in a much smaller version that's not really a circular database but you can make these people your friends don't be obnoxious don't bother people to the point where it makes me crazy go, go, respond, thank you


Joan's macho style and open fondness for younger women provoked the inevitable question Does bother me that I sound like a male chauvinist.    Is that really true? I mean are you offended by that kind of characterization? Don't you feel embarrassed by that? Would you like to have a sexual contest? Starlets here and have a you know Big game hunter soldier of fortune still carries a pistol said to have killed six hundred elephants Seventy-three men in his lifetime, but he feels sorry only for the animals He's real his name is Arthur Jones self-educated man too powerful too rich and too aggressive to be called eccentric But who's tough talk about his projects his passions and philosophy of life and sometimes offend the faint of heart Here's Arthur Jones one of a kind Three things of value Younger women faster airplanes and bigger crocodiles Is it all what you've probably heard about him has to say the least not been flattering For instance one of the most recent articles written about Jones called him quote a tortured soul Antisocial an inventor who has devised a three-part plan to bring the United States to its knees The article also quotes Jones is saying that the only invention he thinks the public would use correctly is a cyanide pill They can either take it or not take it In every television show you've ever seen or every article you've ever read about Arthur Jones That is in fact how he is depicted as an eccentric millionaire tyrant who lives in the middle of central, Florida Who Brooks no interference and tolerates no mistakes and that perhaps is Arthur Jones biggest complaint That he is often misrepresented by the media not just him, but everyone else as well Now what about do you carry a gun? They have what they call a Sullivan law in the state of New York. That's an embarrassing question What we pass over that but did I embarrass you about carrying a gun? I Was once quoted and accurately as saying that a gun is like a tourniquet You may never need one, but when you do you need it very badly and very quickly Hmm Now your your business is booming and and the I read read this afternoon where you also don't like to You don't you don't like to publish the the sales figures or the the profits and losses and so forth Well, you don't hand clubs to people to beat you with so Yeah, but if you do you get lumps on your head, but is it I don't have enough hair for that Is it how how much can you give us a hint as to how much the company is worth? I don't know. Yeah, someone once said that if you knew what you were worth. You're not worth very much Yeah, so this would be probably beyond our wildest imagination In this narcissistic me decade where disciples of physical perfection pump iron on the zen route to personal fulfillment There was one man in the right place and at the right time He created an exercise formula and turned it into a 300 million dollar empire These are just a few of the better bodies built by Nautilus Odarek Victoria principal and this 21-year-old beauty who's married to the king of firm flesh a man who started with a plastic card with no Credit left and wound up on fortunes 400 wealthy American list 60-year-old Arthur Jones And if they had bothered to check my account, I had about 42 cents in it. If that may be 18 cents the credit card had a top limit of $300 and At that point I think I had about $2,000 charged to it It all began with one simple machine built in a rented garage Thanks to a small loan from his sister 14 years later his company projects 10-year earnings of over nine billion We are 700 times as big as we were 13 years ago And I believe we will be 700 times as big 13 years in the future as we are today today that empire has skyrocketed to include three 707s an intercontinental jet and a fleet of twin-engine planes Well a joke is a joke, but when Arthur gets serious He comes out with some quotes that seem intended to shock and they're pure Arthur Well, I have been quoted as saying that I'm 64,000 miles to the right of a till of the hun But I think that's an understatement Teddy Roosevelt said Walk softly and carry a big stick In 1900 that might have been appropriate Today you sneak around and carry a Thompson sub machine gun I don't admire much else about the Arabs But I do admire their attitude towards theft Chop off the hand the first time and the head the second time But a ninth-grade education in the 1930s was equivalent to about two PhDs today And that's giving the PhDs the benefit of the doubt Armed with his ninth-grade education Arthur set out to conquer the world and he started by learning to fly Today Arthur owns a fleet of jets and his number one pilot is wife Terry. I didn't teach Terry to fly I stuck her in the left seat of the airplane and said flight And when she made a mistake that might otherwise have killed her then I saved her She flies the three 707s They keep beside the house and will attempt to break in around the world speed record later this year But last summer the plane was put to a different use It became sort of an elephant bus in the largest single animal airlift in history Arthur rescued 63 African elephants from certain starvation and brought them home to the backyard at a reported cost of one million dollars Why did he do it? Well, he says the elephants are for medical research, but just what kind of research he isn't saying When we are ready to publish the results, we will publish the results in the meantime. We won't talk about it Meanwhile, the elephants are thriving in the Florida sunshine Willie this little fellow has just had a root canal and Shupa the smallest has gained over 100 pounds and likes to follow Arthur and Terry around like a puppy I always wanted a horse farm I never thought I'd have a farm with elephants and rhinos and gorillas. Yes, there's a pair of white rhinos That just had their first baby over 150 rattlesnakes copras and pythons And close to 500 alligators and crocodiles meet Makulu one of the largest crocodiles in captivity and his lovely mate And then there's Mickey the gorilla all 400 pounds of him Well, he's into advertising now and earns his keep starring in television commercials


All right, welcome back everyone. I hope you had good discussions in your breakout rooms. And so now what we wanted to do was talk about each of the ones I'll talk about the first problem that in most going to tackle the second one. But I just want to give you guys some time to put in your approaches. Remember what we're looking for is for you to describe what kind of data do you think is needed. Whether you need more than what's here. You don't need everything that's given. What methodology you recommend to use and then how will this model be used a little more description about that. Okay, so for the first one, the forklift crew break scheduling. Like I said, when Victor sent this to me what he had he had a lot more detailed data. And he showed the distribution of the transit times and all these kinds of things. And his thought was what we need to do is to use going to use first the thing he did was characterize the transit time. And he looked at this to see it doesn't fit a known distribution, because then he could use that in a simulation. And so his approach was his thought was build a simulation, whether it's in any logic or some other tool, whatever. But to simulate the behavior and then try to figure out where the best breaks are kind of like trying to train different policies. And the challenge the questions that heroes with me was, how do I make sure it's valid. How do you validate this model. And so we'll talk about this in SC 2x we do network design, but typically what you need to do is whenever you have a simulation or an optimization where you're trying to do a new prescriptive approach where you're trying to come up with a new solution. You have to test your model and make sure your model captures reality. What you do is you create what's known as a base case, and you want to use the existing data and the existing policies to see if your costs or whatever match what actually happens. Right, so that's the first thing you always do, because if your model cannot replicate reality, then you can't trust it for future recommendations. So we talked about this in SC 2x and going to great depth, because it's very important for network design, but same thing here. You need to first simulate okay am I capturing based on what they currently do is it capturing the same flow is the same number of cares is it roughly within the same ballpark. And if it is, then you can go and say okay now I'm going to tweak the policy, but if you start tweaking the policy before you validated the model, you're just wasting time. And so the way I would do it is try to model what they currently do and try to see if you can capture what they actually happening. So as I look through some people have sent some stuff in. And it looks like, let's see where am I. Yeah, so there's some breakout room one I think this is, is that where param is seeing breakout one or do we know. So do we know where he is well. Yep. So he had so problems was pretty much the same discrete event simulation, build in any logic so that's great. Victor chimed in hi Victor. And so he said he's one who suggests the problem. And he said the someone asked where the time is 30 minutes breaks per shift three ships per day warehouse capacity is 34,000 palates. So then someone else Sergio says for breakout room one, they said you need better understand the distribution of the production rate got it. That's something you get the distribution I think Victor was doing along those lines as well. And again, a discrete event simulation, take some observation doing a chi square test, because that that's how you validate if the distribution is matches is it normal is it not log normal whatever exponential. And, okay, so you guys kind of all falling on the same thing. The reason why I picked this problem is that another one came in from breakout too. Oh, was that problem too. Yeah. Oh, it is never mind. Okay. So, there's a phrase in English and I don't know if you guys have heard it for called a red herring. And a red herring is something where it's actually it's stuff that excess information that you really don't use. And for me, the first thing I would do in this problem is not set up a discrete event simulation or look at the transit time or that stuff is to understand what they're actually doing. Right. And so to me this almost looks like a management problem. And so first step is talk and see when are they taking their breaks because it might be that they don't know they're only supposed to do 30 minutes. Maybe they're just doing because no one's checking on them. So what I would recommend trying to do initially is understand what the policy is and start enforcing it. Because we don't even know if it's not being enforced and if you don't enforce something people will just naturally take their time. So maybe spend a day or two on the docs and understand what it is do a ride along. There's a famous paper in the Harvard Business Review gosh 30 years ago called staple yourself to an order you Google that you can probably find it. And the whole idea is when you solve a problem. One of the traps that we all fall into as learners in this course once you have all these methods is you solve it in the abstract. And that's very important to staple yourself to the order or to the process so do a drive along. Watch what they do and sit around I've done this and many times with I would spend a day out in Chicago a couple years back with Schneider driving in the trucks who does shuttle runs back and forth with containers. And if you've ever seen someone back into a space with a 53 foot container. It's amazing to back into a slot but you get an understanding of what's actually happening beyond just the numbers. So I put this problem first I love it because I agree that you could do some really interesting things with a simulation but job one understand what's actually happening on the ground. Don't jump into a model right away. Try to understand the people and what's happening. And it might be that if you just put in and say you know what after your third run of the day take your 30 minute break after something's loaded and set a policy. See how that goes. And that might solve the problem. But if that doesn't once you get that set and have people actually hearing two policies and you can start looking at things such as OK what if I change the policy they get to 15 minute breaks. Instead of a 30. That's what simulation will help you do. I'd say job one is staple yourself to a driver and see what actually happens. OK. Now I'm going to turn it over to Emma and she's going to talk about the second problem. The container loading problem. Yeah so thank you Lance for this nice problem you shared with us. This is clearly a mixed interior linear programming problem. As I'm sure all of you have figured out. So for this mixed interior linear programming problem which could be the decision variables we want to figure out. Well basically how many like box which box I or pallet I is going to container J container J being container one two three or four these four types of containers we have now. And we of course will have to build some binary variables there to decide like to say if this container is being used even if one box goes to this container that container needs to be paid for. It's going to be open and obviously reserve campaign. So this would be the decision variables. And then we will have of course volume constraint right we have the volume information for each type of container. So I will create that the constraints and of course which container am I going to use the one that gives me the cheapest value per cubic meter. However you have to notice that volume is not not the only constraint we also need to think about weight and we don't have weight data here. So that's something we will need to figure out what's the weight of its pallet or box we want to ship and also how much weight was the maximum weight we can have per container. So that would be a second type of constraints. So let me add something there because what's interesting is going from a TEU to an FEU right 20 foot to 40 foot doubles the volume. The weight doesn't double the weight only goes up by about 12%. And the reason why if anyone's a civil engineer, if I have a 20 foot member containers are only picked up on the corners. So if I pick up a 20 foot like this versus a 40 foot the 40 foot you can't handle and twice the weight because it's it's what's known as a moment. And so the further you go away it's like a think of a seesaw. Right. And so as I get further away, it's the square of the distance times the weight, I can't handle as much. So, even though the volume doubles from a TEU to an FEU, the weight you can handle does not double it only goes up by a small percentage. We'll just break, right? Yeah, I don't break. Okay, so that's something it's not in the problem and it's really, really important. So it's the data you need both for the capacity and weight for each container type and for each item, the box, the thing you're shipping. And then another thing that it's not in the problem and we should take into account is the type of product that can go into a container. So of course, there are certain products that can't be mixed up in a container. Imagine, for example, some food items mixed up with hazardous chemicals. We can't do that. So somehow we need to figure out like different types of products that can be mixed into a container or cannot be mixed. And that will be other types of constraints that need to be introduced in our model. So, as said, well, you know, probably there's some randomness here. How can a milk be used for this? And actually the randomness kind of goes away once you have the things you're doing. But, you know, some things can change in those 90 minutes. And so you had an idea, obviously, but how do you can possibly handle that in practice? Yes, we thought maybe we could reserve like some buffer space. For example, if we have a 26 cubic meter container, just fill it up until 24. So fix the maximum capacity in 24 and we have two cubic meters per container of that type, three to introduce more products that come up in the last minute. Because we were discussing also earlier that we are not sure if it will be able, this company will be able to hold or maintain this product that may come in the last minute until the next day. So if that's not possible, then you need to figure out like you need to reserve some space if it's less efficient to introduce these products and make them up late. So another way you could tweak this problem, which is more realistic is right now we said you could order them on the fly and those 90 minutes you determine how many you want to order. What if you have to place that order a week ahead of time? It changes the problem completely. And then your point parm is dead on because now I have uncertainty because I have to commit a week out. This is a problem that we'll talk about SC1 X called the news boy problem. And so we'll talk about that uses all the same tools you've already learned a probability and some optimization, but now it's a different framework. And so in that case, you try to understand, okay, what's the probability that I need three containers or two containers of a certain type. Because this goes to what the Dianon recommended by looking historical data and you can segment customers based on their variability. You need to do that if you have to commit ahead of time. If you can place your order essentially on the spot market for your containers, then you really don't care.  But if I have to commit ahead of time before I know what I've got, then we have to look and get some sense of history. Then we also have this comment about how to get consolidated format format data from many different sources. And that can change in the meantime, having only one and a half hours to gather an input. So that's also challenging. Everything we've done here is pretty much spreadsheet base and you type stuff in. In practice, you won't do that. And for something like this, you need to use more structured data models. And that's why we'll use relational databases. We introduce those in this forex when we talk about how you scale these problems to real size systems. And so you'll spend a lot of time learning SQL structure query language and understand how to formally handle large amounts of data. Because what you'd need is a data upload, some kind of API where the format and format is set, you know, all the detailed information coming in. You probably have to tie that to what's known as a skew master table that says this skewer this shipment weighs, you know, 300 pounds, and it takes this much volume and it's on a palette. You need to know that information to combine things together. Because essentially as we were talking, this is what's known as a form of a knapsack problem. And so I've got this knapsack and everything I'm trying to put in it. I've got it has a certain value, and it has certain dimensions and only certain ones fit together like a puzzle. And so the problem is, which items do I put into which box. And that's, it's a complicated problem, but you can solve it and you can solve using a mixed injury. What else? Did you talk about the compatibility of different items? Yeah, of different items. Yeah, we mentioned that.  So that's a constraint. So what would happen if we were allowed to mix the products from different retailers in the same container? So what will happen in that case? So this is the, so the question is, let's say you're doing this and you're doing your job and you have your mixed injury program and it does it for each retailer. If you have an idea that you know what, I think I could save more money. How would you do this? Well, you could just loosen the constraint, run your data back through and see what is the difference in the solutions, and you could build the case. And so you would use an optimization on a new, you essentially relax a constraint instead of solving, let's say I have 10 retailers I'm solving for solving 10 problems, I solve one problem. And I allow mixing if needed, not everyone makes, but some mixed. See what the savings is. And then you want to see, does this justify me going to the retailers and see if they want to change their policy. You only want to go to some of the retailers that have comfortable or, or compatible equipment or compatible product. So you don't want to get someone who's shipping refrigerated things with someone shipping, you know, light bulbs. Right, but maybe you can make something where they fit together. And then part of what we've shown you in these tools, you can make the case that maybe it makes sense to change this policy. And that's the beauty of all these tools that we showed you and the rest of the courses will show you how to use these methodologies to make better decisions. And with that, I think we're just about done. So I think what we wanted to do now, kind of wrap things up. So any reminders for them for SC zero X. Yes, I would like to remind you that we are almost at the end of the course and the final exam will be released next week on Wednesday, December the sixth. I know you're all very excited out of the final exam. We've been working a lot on it. And I hope it's going to be nicely crafted. And you enjoy solving it. So please make sure you review all the concepts from all the previous week, because all the contents from week one to week 10 will be included in this exam. Please remember that once we release the exam on December the sixth at 1500 UTC, it will be available during one week until December the 13th. But once you begin to solve the exam, you only have four hours to complete it because it's a timed exam. Right. And so this is going to wrap up SC zero X but let me just tell you just quickly what you'll do in one X because I hope you take that next. It starts, I want to say 27 December week zero. So you can you can get Christmas off. You can start in the new year. So in SC one X, we do three things. And they're all tied to the idea of a trade off. You might trade off because you have competing demands. The first is demand forecasting. How do you understand or how do you model the what the for the demand is going to be for your product your service for your company. And we'll go over a bunch of different techniques to include using regression again for causal analysis but we'll talk about exponential smoothing moving average all these different techniques to better forecast your demand. They will switch gears and spend a lot of time on inventory because that's a really costly part of supply chain management and you use all those probabilistic models that we talked about before when you look at inventory. And so you try to understand how much inventory to have to avoid stocking out what is the probability of stocking out what's my level of service. And then we'll finish up with transportation and for transportation is really all about understanding mode choice. And so should I take a ship or should I fly by air. Should I go by rail or by truck. Should I pick different providers and because the transit time gives me lead time of the average as well as the variability. And so we'll show you through what's known as a total cost equation how to make these different trade offs because you're making trade off between level of service and cost you're making trade off between the overage having too much and having too little underage. And you're making trade off between a fixed cost and the variable cost will go through all of these, but all the tools you're going to be using, you've already mastered. So you've done them in zero X now we're going to apply now we'll do the fun stuff. So as you want X, I encourage you to take that next. And I hope, hope we'll see you there. Yeah, I think it's super fun. Yeah, I, I love as you want X is the most fun course. Yes. And Chris will be the instructor again for a C1 X. So we really hope to see you there. And good luck with the final exam. Good luck. Take care. Bye bye.


Beth ydych chi'n fawr i chi'n meddwl mewn Jim Cary wedi yng nghymru, fe fe nid defnyddio'r pethau sy'n gwirio a'i ddim yn ddiwg i'n meddwl i'n cymaint ac cefnig ar gyffinion.  Mae, mae gennym yn ymddangos y Gymraeg i chi, fe wedi bod yng ngheilio gynghwyl. Fy rydyn ni'n groes am ychydig yn gymryd yma, a rydyn ni'n ymddangos yn Llau. A rydyn ni'n gynyddiad cymryd am ychydig. Felly, mae gymraeg ei ymddangos yn ddiddordeb o fwyaf, wedi bod yna'r bod yn ychydig yn ymddangos. A'r bod yn ymddangos yn gyfanyddol, ..dw i'n meddwl y gallwn ei wneud ymweld y fawr. Yn ymweld yma yw'r ffordd yw'r ffordd. Yn ymweld, os ydych chi'n ddau'r ffordd... ..y fwy fwy o'r ffordd yw'r ffordd, yw'n meddwl yw'r ffordd... ..y fyddi'r ffordd yw'r ffordd. Yn ymweld, mae'r gweithio yma, a'r ffordd yw gym... ..eithio y gallwn yw'r ffordd. Yn ymweld, yw'r ffordd... Llywodraeth yn gwybodaeth i gafodd o hynny. Beth yna efallai y gallu gwneud y lle mae hynny? Beth yna efallai y gallu gwneud y lle mae hynny? Beth yna efallai mae'r lle mae'r gwneud y lefyn yn gallu ei gwelio? Rwy hynny ychydig yn dwyaf. Mae'r rhai, rhai, rhai, rhai, mhreistfan. Yn ni wedi rhoi, yng nghymru, o'r holl bwysig. Why aren't we exploring all possibility? Not that you come across information and just because you come across it, that that's true then, I believe that now, now- No! You question it, process it, come to conclusions about it. But it's very simple and history shows us this. Systematically reducing the amount of information, ddifesrwtio'r ddifesrwtio a ddifesrwtio ac yn ddech chi'n gweithio th毆. Nid yw eu roddon ni'n braf. Dw i'n ddae'n gwybod, mae'n ddoros o'r ddifesrwtio yn banyddol ar digestion. Dwi'n diwrnod o'r tyamenau, erbyn digon oedd oedd mawr yn talodol, fe hmol o'r tymen na'r ddenigio am hyn, mae'r poradol o ddifesrwtio i drefio'r ddifesrwtio ddifesrwtio is what they want people to believe, every time. So whenever you're in a situation where the free flow of information and view and opinion is being censored, you are in a tyranny. And what humanity has allowed itself, not everybody of course, but great numbers, especially the political correctness group is, is they've allowed themselves to become a tyranny while claiming to be anti-tyranny.  They don't realise that what they're doing is actually projecting their own behaviour in what they're opposing. Anyone who gives someone a hard time for having a different view, however much they may not agree with it, is a psychological fascist in my view because they are seeking to impose their will on someone else. And it's quite simple. You let all information be circulated and then people make their own minds up what they want to believe and what they don't believe. And this is a key. What we're seeing now, not least through algorithms and through self-censorship by being intimidated into being terrified of speaking your truth, we're seeing information censored before the point of delivery, before anyone can hear it. This is fundamental because I believe that all information and all views should be allowed to be expressed because if anyone is censored from expressing those beliefs then no one has freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, the freedom to speak. It's not freedom to speak what is acceptable, it's the freedom to speak. And once anyone is censored, freedom of speech is dead because what's left is only what is acceptable to speak and that's not freedom of speech. And then what they've done and what they're doing all the time is squeezing that acceptability so freedom of speech gets narrower and narrower until it disappears altogether. And so what we have is a situation where if people are allowed to say and communicate whatever they want that is a situation where no authority in any form has the power to decide what people see in here. Once you start censoring before the point of delivery, which is to say algorithms and self-censorship is now doing, you are giving authority the power to decide what people see in here. And of course it starts out with one excuse, we must stop jihadis justifying or promoting violence. Okay.  What's fake news? Whatever we say it is. Yeah, we've got to stop people saying fake news so we've got to censor that. Oh, the more people we can get to be victims and upset, the more excuses we've got to censor even more, right? Yeah. So give people all the excuses they want to be upset and to be feel a victim and then we can censor people saying things that upset them and so you're moving along this road. None of that can happen when we have the free flow of information, nothing censored. So people say, well, what about saying go and kill people? Yeah, but there's laws against that. There's laws against that. There's laws against telling people, oh, burn that house down. But they're after the point of delivery, which means you can deal with the extremes of what our people use speech. But it's, it's heard. Then you can deal with it if it needs dealing with it. And most speech does not need dealing with it all.  Well, obviously, you know, you deal with that. You have to deal with that. But it's after the point of delivery. And as long as we hold that line, authority has no power to censor. What we're seeing now is the opposite of that. That beyond before that line is where most censorship is starting to happen. And thus freedom is disappearing.


So why don't we get cancer more often? Well, the secret actually is hardwired in our body. So when we're born, we are hardwired with what it takes to live a, let's call it normal lifespan as healthy as possible. We don't get infected that much. We don't develop visible cancers. And when we're actually exposed to the toxins in the environment, right? Like who's not exposed to off-gassing from carpets and rugs, petrol fumes at the gas station, barbecue grill, you know, when you're out there. I mean, all those things are harmful.  All the chemicals that are used in modern society are insults to our system.