t breaks out to uh so there you go the artifact is reroll wound rolls of one so you can take that and take said long walk off short pier tricksters foil is like a is like a meta name for this artifact yeah what they think they've done like all you tricksters with your ethereal and thermo-radar clothes i'll foil you here's your plus one here's your reroll wound rolls of one for your wizard who doesn't have an artifact yet and it's your only choice nice yep exactly super great uh just i hate that there are no utility mobility no interesting choices just they just the basic functions of combat rerolling ones in the most boring way that is my biggest insult they are boring they're boring yeah boring rules are so much worse than unbalanced rules i'm sorry you got me going again but i just i can't take it it's it is a splinter in my soul and and and the reason it hurts so bad is because again you feel the the negative uh psychological impact of loss more than you well negativity but yes the negative but you've got you've got less boring artifacts than you did in maligned sorcery which is really more choice thank you according to a copy according yeah exactly i yeah it's fine and i don't i don't blame the person who wrote that they were given the job of selling less is more so i mean sure yeah that's that's hard we know we took away these things you all used and thought were really fun and enjoyable and allowed you to play your armies how you wanted to and by the way you actually spent money in like a lot of hours making uh making let's say like i don't know let's just pull something out of the ether shall we like let's just make one example like maybe a a flying steam tank with a thermal writer quote cloak because you had always dreamed of having a flying steam tank when you started playing the empire like back in 1997 and now you could finally make the flying steam tank you had always dreamed up and so you finally built that thing and customized the whole model just for it to be like a leader in your army and you had kind of like done that and then maybe let's just say even to extend this into a crazier territory you then put the army onto the warhammer community and they featured that model as a thing that they talked about as a cool thing you could do and then it got taken away like if that crazy situation were to happen when did they put that on their fence uh like a month before this came out so they knew yes they absolutely knew they knew what it was to do wow i cannot believe they've rose in crowns and gilded a serger like that is outrageous yeah i'm sorry vince i know it's painful yeah so at any rate no no big deal no big deal we'll move on uh also the red cast in his unflappability for this for this entire ghp i've noticed and the realm command for the realm of shadows actually kind of neat because it's like a short range teleport pull a hero pull a unit back to a hero so yeah it's the night haunt you know um yeah what's her name uh the what is the dreadblade hero or something or the anchoring man yeah oh is that what it is doesn't the dreadblade hero do this pull the people away and set him up around himself that might be what i'm thinking of okay i was just trying to think of all the heroes who already had every single one of these command traits and which one they just copy and pasted it from for all yeah tom this is your army you should know knight on stuff isn't it isn't it the dreadblade hero that does the what well does the like unit any general control the question is is where um like is the dreadblade your your general then you're probably gonna pull to it and it's the best thing to use that type of ability because of its like speed and whatever yes because it can pick up and reset up every turn right okay cool yeah there you go uh yes as as somebody pointed out in the comments they have showcased two lists with flying steam tanks on the community site two people yeah exactly uh life's funny sometimes a little ironies okay so yeah overall i mean those are the realms it's not that there's it isn't that there's like nothing in there there are things in there that will have an effect on the game right yeah for sure yeah yeah it's just all in all i'm willing to roll with this for a little while like as far as the realm rules go like take the artifacts thing aside and i actually don't hate any of this i think oftentimes it's kind of like yeah it's not gonna be much but that's fine it's there they're okay we could always add a little bit more back on yeah yeah right i have a question that came up actually uh in the childhood about this is today a lot of people saying that they generally tend to just ignore these they get to the table like do you want to do this like no i don't want to do this like cool like but uh an event like now that seems okay to me but when you're at a tournament and it's in the pack we're playing the realms it's a realm of fire everything is volcanic um do you think it is out of order for the players to decide amongst themselves actually they won't partake in what is a stipulated set of rules uh in does that make sense like what you thought yeah that would be problematic no i mean if the teo wrote it down that like this this round we like round like kankan did it right as day one was all or what was they were they were in garan all weekend but some tournaments do it like day one and this is actually the way i prefer like day one is all in one realm and day two is all in a different realm that way people can kind of get into it and get a little more comfortable yeah that's much easier to to jump into yeah i don't i don't necessarily like the the every round is a different realm thing because that becomes kind of hard to balance but maybe part of that was because of the complexity of the old rules and the six bells and blah blah blah but no i don't think you should opt out of it at the table i mean i guess it's that's the rules pack that'd be like saying we're not going to play with the victory conditions or whatever in my mind right i will say in my anecdotal experience um especially before to started doing the day one fire day two will go or whatever which was a great idea especially before that i'm inventing a number here but in my head it's reasonably close to true 25 percent of my total tournament opponents would roll up to the table and in our opening pleasantries and kind of starting to set the board up they would be sending super strong verbal and nonverbal signals about can we please just ignore this crap for all that like they weren't they weren't like just saying it i mean some did but they were like uh let's let's just start the game but you know they were they were doing a lot of that and usually i would be a stickler because them's the rules and that's how i play and my sportsmanship suffered for it but you know uh that was uh if i was taking the temperature of the room at a lot of American events it would be like oh all right yeah yeah look up these realm rules now all right yeah that's fair and then like look at you and then like wait because we gotta look them up right i'm like yeah it's in the pack and they're like all right it's already a four out of five we'll just see if it drops any lower for sports no where to go but down on this one yeah exactly it's like putting your your total tip amount on the table with the server yeah absolutely okay uh let's talk auxiliaries this is all kind of related uh i think i have a very different opinion than you on these rub uh i don't uh so first of all the idea of these being a decider in a draw is so comically nothing that yeah like that's obviously therefore like yeah we got ready to kill points as a breaker yeah none of that matters draws only happen on knife to the heart so it's irrelevant okay great moving on skip that yeah and if you're drawing you're a coward so skip that go for the win or stop playing what are you doing with it that's what this we're here for okay yeah so uh but and as a like then secondary scoring mechanism because that's obviously if you go back and even look at their sample tournament you know scoring sheet that they have in the back of the book it's like you get one three or five points i think is what the amount is uh for uh completing one two or three of your auxiliary objectives or whatever it's like what's on their sample doesn't matter to do whatever they want with them right and use them as like a secondary scoring metrics to set to separate people so what do people think of these as far as their value goes like rob why don't you set up first because you had some strong opinions about this on your show on monday which i do highly encourage people to go watch well so uh i you were in my head uh as you often are later than i um when i was thinking about uh these and you know uh the idea that kill points are gone and replaced by this means that you might end up with more attritiony based armies which i know you really are against um uh so i had that in my head when i was talking about them but i actually feel that these are at least a good start towards where we should be ending up with secondaries and my reasoning for that is comes i mean the secondaries before a joke um these are way better than these agendas way yeah they're way better than that they're way way better than that uh and i know for nashcon obviously last year you you did a load of work on inventing ones that made more sense as well i also have heard the given that um they would have much preferred to achieve auxiliaries that were more malifaux style so like you know you got one two three based on how far into uh or how well you achieved those uh secondaries which i also thought was interesting like for a games workshop thing i think that they did pretty well like on the auxiliaries is what i'm trying to say i think that they mix the game up a bit they make you do some other stuff and i think that they're interesting are they perfect no but for a games workshop out of the gate like and maybe this is version two because they had the secondaries before not bad is how i'm feeling about them and i like that because i first started playing age sigma under mo comp which was always battle plans exactly like we have now ripped off from malifaux and then five secondaries and i always loved them they were always something i was having to put into effect something i was always having to think about and uh a bit of extra bookkeeping don't like that uh but more more tactical acumen i like that so that good i feel really good about them really good okay joe tom whoever well so secondaries to me these are better than the secondaries in the ghp last time for sure sure um as a player i'm behooved to choose the two easiest ones that involve things i'm going to do anyway and so i accidentally get auxiliaries once i already win and for a lot of them um it's the degrees of victory is lost on me it's like if i crush my opponent and it was the easiest game ever i get the most points from it so it you know it's sort of like the opposite of strength of schedule in a way i guess but maybe not um i don't think you necessarily always achieve all of them even in a crushing well not all of them but i suppose if you're choosing two before a game if the tournament says like you can't duplicate them or you know you choose one per round i suppose i'm not sure how the to's are going to do it and oftentimes tournaments have tier shearies which are just like yeah kind of totally made up and like another i thought i thought it was in i thought it was in the pack it was three for being like two for a normal game is what they said so out of it so out of 18 so out of 18 because it's not because for the scoring for the tournament often when we differentiate at the top like it's you know they've got those two very easy score secondaries and you've got all your max wins and now we need a tertiary but now if there's just even slightly more difficult to achieve like where it's one and then obviously most packs that i saw generally tended to be a point swing if you achieved it and a point swing if you denied so there was actually a four point swing max between two players effectively so even being able to deny your opponent one could actually end up that person losing an event and someone else winning an event so i like that level of granularity especially when it comes to three because i agree with you some of them are achieved but some of them are like actually maybe that might not be the easiest thing to do yeah and maybe and maybe you just you know turn for you like i've definitely lost but i'm going to throw my whole army away and keep this character alive and not let them win like that's that third tertiary that might cost them the tournament and there's and the other you you know i wish there was more to do or i wish there was less of a of a spite option there though where it's like you can't win anymore but you can stop your opponent from getting artillery that otherwise doesn't matter but just hurts his results at the end yeah war's spiteful like i'm into it i mean i'm playing due to eat people and livestock and so i should really role play more but so so here's my ultimate here's my ultimate pushback on why i'm not a fan of these so one there's not a lot of win for losing right okay so you made the reference to the illusion to schemes in malifaux schemes in malifaux are so well designed because they oftentimes have orthogonal purposes where you can win for losing is that do you understand what i mean by that rob i don't mean losing the game overall okay yeah i mean like sacrificing sacrificing your heroes your units your position your anything you can win when you lose you score them by losing stuff there's not a lot of that in here this is mostly like do more winning to your opponent and you get more of this stuff kill their hero kill their unit kill their thing be in their territory you know whatever whatever whatever make them fail battle shock right whereas like having the the consequence of these things when they're well written is that they psychologically buoy people who are doing poorly okay and when so many of these are contingent on you being able to effectively achieve your ends already what you're doing with your army there aren't a lot of these that you're gonna be able to do that with that's number one number two i don't like that you have to take three of them it's too many to keep track of i really don't that's too much junk for me to be worrying about you should have a secondary it's one thing you're trying to do okay well this is actually your fault not your fault directly but it's america's fault because of the itc like this is what we're currently looking at i think i think there's some parity that we're looking at now especially with current 40k uh in ninth edition in in in the triple secondary pick and i think that we're going to see that parity brought across system i actually think that these are the setups for where we get our version of their secondaries in the next edition of the game like i feel that that's where it is so i agree but i do fundamentally agree with you that that they often a win more and so i haven't shied away from that i just think it's a step in the right direction which is good maybe sure i mean my final thing i'll say is like and yes i'm super biased in here okay like i am well beyond biased okay but the the schemes that you know nashcon uses that that i created with tom and tyler emerson are still doing a better job of being secondary deciders in the way they're implemented there than anything in here is doing and the fact that those are one that you draw from a random hand you that you don't get to pick you know that there's a you get a random grip of six or seven you have to use five over the course of the game you can't double up and that they're hidden and david's pack is only rewarding you for achieving it there's nothing about denial okay you can try to figure out what they're doing and deny them based on if you know if you're smart you know the schemes but i like them much better as a hidden thing that you're trying to do that your opponent's not necessarily aware of rather than a thing that's out there it like in my head this goes right to you what you talked about earlier because all of these are like revealed at the start of the game you know you said i'm down to say i'm doing this i'm doing this i'm doing this so like the idea that i'm trying to deny my opponent so i'm trying to focus on whatever is going on in my army all of my rules worry about six objectives which are now you know most these are like five six objectives okay worrying about what their army is doing what they're trying to achieve i'm trying to remember my three auxiliaries that i'm trying to accomplish and i'm trying to focus on denying them their three like that's just too much stuff it's just too much stuff to be thinking about okay like that's the kind of thing that makes people have a bad time at tournaments because they're like why didn't i would just like to play warhammer okay well that's why i just play this game would how would you feel about um because this is something actually so for the super series i actually wrote a bunch of secondaries before these came in because they weren't very good and so i had a bleakest like secondaries that applied in every round in every match so they were just the same secondaries every time kind of like the old school uh 40k missions like old school if you know like first strike slay the warlord that sort of thing because i actually think that like consistent secondaries that you play every game so they aren't different every round might help with that bookkeeping and also add a level of like i think tactics which is also something else that you can play for right um they're not that that you know uh that your malifaux kind of point doesn't really get fixed not fixed but um if i'm still having to if the problem is is that i'm having to learn loads of different secondaries it's not overly helpful for new players and it's a bit like convoluted that doesn't really get fixed by having better secondaries that still is a lot of secondaries to learn but if you have the same secondaries which play every game all the time then that works quite nicely which is what mo comp used to be and i really enjoyed that i was always like i am definitely going to kill that unit and you're definitely not going to kill this unit and it was just a really fun like thing that i played every round um uh but sorry i wasn't trying to roll no no it's okay do you know what my answer is i have i have a quick answer for you let me let me answer rob yeah yeah uh my answer is that is still the sub optimal implementation of that thing to if you're going to have them be static in the way you're describing okay then what i would rather see them as is astatic secondary on each scenario different secondaries not one like in scenario a so here's an easy way to explain it okay let's imagine and it should run counterplay in some way to the to the to the general thematic elements that that scenario is pulling toward for example let's imagine a scenario that favors you being back on your line in your area and being defensive okay there are several scenarios that sort of work that way right uh scores shirth and better part of valor both sort of pull you back to your line and being defensive right the secondary that i would put on that mission is a first strike type mission getting across and hitting them hard hitting them first okay uh wherein now i'm actually influencing list building in a way that is real because it's in that scenario if that thing ends up in packs i have to account for the fact that i need to be able to play both of those strategies it wants to get my maximum points okay you get what i'm saying there that yeah i love it love it that feels like a stronger implementation when they're a bespoke design scenario to scenario as opposed to just these are five generic things because the problem is they're so generic when you have to implement them like that that they end up being like okay well it's not doing the same lifting yeah good point you mean like secondary should be push and pull yes and a lot of these secondaries feel push and push right because they kind of have to be if they're generic yes that is a that is a good point yeah great point great point and i actually think again looking towards the future that's what they're doing they seem to be trying to attempt to do with 40k uh which is maybe a good like nod for what we might be getting or what some of these me i don't know like it's better than it was that's the best i've got yeah i have no disagreement with yeah it's sort of really fair we're all on that page yes and for the for the complexity thing um for your for your esports series that's not necessarily a bad thing because the players are probably supposed to be of a caliber where they can deal with that but then like it's also kind of a bad thing because you have to get the audience to be able to follow it yeah i think it's i think it's less you know yeah i mean i don't know if anyone ever read the the pack for the 40k wtc which involved both secondaries tertiary's and rounded scoring on um randomly drawn cards i felt like i needed a degree just to read the pack and i get it yeah i get it that's the world team championships for 40k so it's complicated and i'm like okay but like translatable out to an audience i think definitely so and i also think um that that's a problem for new players which is also a good way of talking about the audience sometimes new players also how do these relate to me playing a pickup game yeah exactly the the game you're watching them play on tv should be the exact game they're playing at home because they're different than it's well and again that's exactly what building those kinds of things into the scenarios would do because they'd all be using the same scenarios it would be the same common language because what's going to happen with these i mean i know at my table i'd love to see people in the audience chat up but you know and say about this there's no universe where at my any of my games at home we use these auxiliaries that will never happen it would never happen yeah that's what i was about to say about pickup games like because in a tournament okay it makes sense like you know like i get i get less and less choices as the rounds go on and eventually maybe i won't be able to achieve some of those and therefore i drop some tournament points but at home i just picked the three i can always definitely do done yeah go home so like pickup games they're they useless in pickup games uh absolutely and yeah and i'd be really really interested uh vince in what you might do in point and secondaries into missions i think that's uh very interesting and i'd like to i'd love to hear you talk about that more another time by the way i mean it could be your opponent picks them for you right yeah that's cool and it's gonna it's gonna naturally pull you in whatever opposite direction then you want and there are probably gonna be more difficult to achieve them another interesting idea yeah sure especially because you'd still cross them off see right yeah right so like you're later you're later around opponents have less choices for you so or it could even be a mix you pick one they pick one something like that like there's there's ways to to flip this on its head to probably implement in a stronger fashion tom any final thoughts on auxiliaries anything you got i like them um i mean i don't i i agree with the critiques that have been level against them but they're better than they were yeah sure yep yep yep okay uh cool anything we missed gentlemen i think we got i think we got everything i think that's this ghb unpacked let's talk about just very quick here let's close this out and uh let's talk about what we want to see out of the pdfs just i don't want to go super deep into this but let's go a little bit into this uh joe there are so many armies in the pdf can we list them and and do an elevator pitch for you yeah sure absolutely not gonna i'm trying to remember which of the eight is it something like six or seven or eight armies yes yeah cities ogres slaves obr uh zinch seraphon and i think i'm missing one chaos there you go so a lot yeah uh city is a little better internal balance they kind of got hit on the bridge went up and stuff like that i think they're their monsters could maybe go a touchdown because they uh they lost realm artifacts which is big deal um maybe a little more a little closer parity between many of the units that have a shared role depending on rates oh yes i think i like sorry go ahead like just because i'm just going to go pying the sky on every suggestion i'd like to see so i'd like to see some like real cross-pollination of like synergy so like we're not cross-pollination actually really tied in specific so the opposite of what i said sorry uh like so i want i want the unit of eternal guard uh to work very well with other wood elf units specifically and become crazy good next to each other and then so that their points kind of offset that because they suck and like because you can't make them all because like phoenix guard of good yeah so you have to make them like phoenix guard or cheap and therefore useless sort of thing and i'm like don't do that just make it so that like these two units in combination with each other get really strong and you kill one half of those two units and then it kind of falls apart just do that and then just do that with all the little subgroups inside the city sigmar yeah you're saying establish a bunch of like true power pairs yeah effectively and then just and then throw them into the different that's what i want to see and that requires a significant volume of rewrite which we're not going to get but that would be that would be fun i think that would make it seem a little bit more interesting inside right it would be really cool if they did rewrites for cities of sigmar because there's a lot of a lot of slam dunks and cool opportunities there um what they want tom what what's your what's your hot pick well we'll do a couple rounds sure he's deep in thought this is gonna be he's trying to decide if he wants to talk about ko first or not is what's going to happen here all right chat buckle up this is going to be deep i think ko is really good okay i'm gonna i'm gonna come around and say that i think that and i think part of it is because of the evolving meta sure um if the leak points are to be true it looks like they're looking at some pretty drastic like point decreases mm-hmm enjoy this while they last yeah yep uh which most of the year won't have any events so they won't um and yeah that's what i'm gonna like i think that uh my hot pick is that i think ko's gonna do really well in the new world yep but especially with their points down they're already on a strong foot yep and then like with the with uh uh with the uh rat trap going down as well um the fact that like even techless can't prevent against that sure um uh or that or the the demon rift i don't know i just i think that like the stock in ko is it is primed to do very well in the new meta let me say it that way i agree stonks all right uh for myself i'm gonna pick uh i'm gonna pick seraphon and i want to see i want to see croak and the sally's get kneecapped so hard just like i want croak to go up 120 points that's an example it's not going to but that's that that would be a reasonable point amount for him well up 40 is gw is 120 so sure but like he should be 440 i'm sorry what are you talking about this guy at 320 what idlon started at right yeah exactly yeah yeah you compare him to and i'm generally you know as i mentioned on the show with rob you have to be careful about doing cross army comparisons some people should have things cheaper if their armies overall have less capabilities yeah and your different weaponers there's all sorts of different yeah yeah there's all sorts of different things so you can't just go even one to one but i mean it is an absolute joke to compare a hero in a in a very like seraphon so like the more varied your army is the more strats the more phases it plays in generally the closer retail you should be paying for anything right like if you only play in one phase if you can only punch people in the face iron jaw style you can't you don't have magic yeah you have a little bit of mobility you don't have shooting your melee units should be cheaper pound pound for point right because that's what you do and that's all you do uh whereas like uh seraphon who play in every phase aggressively to have that leader at that point cost is just it's it's freaking madness it is madness uh so i look for it so just please please crack both of those hard there's still plenty of other good stuff in seraphon plenty it's not like that ruins their army skinks are good sores can be interesting basties are interesting like there's plenty of interesting units in that army are we also are we also just asking flat out for a basti rewrite so it's just a two up armor save oh i love how quick that reformatted by the way that problem got introduced in 40k and instead of the answer being no it's just how the game is supposed to work they came out with an f aq like right now saying no this isn't a thing they fixed it two day this happened they fixed it so that the one plus save wouldn't exist in 40k and be immune to ap we had this problem months ago and they were like yep just how it is sorry that's just the way it works they introduced it before 40k isn't really even out it's on pre-order and they fixed it to be fair though there's there's also a load of stuff they haven't fixed so that is not the shining light in our community unfortunately but i understand i'm just saying like that is it's comical to me that people were like one plus terminators that are immune to ap what are we going to do and we're like hey these lizards over here are immune they're like yeah working as intended and these guys over here are like now we'll fix that immediately so anyway so sorry can i just answer a question that's in the chat because so because it's about seraphon because kasper scott scott's guard says basillons basillons are hot garbage outside of thunder is it i actually ignoring the obvious points problems that you have with seraphon it's actually one of my favorite books because talking about and cities is a really good example where you can talk about the problem and the solution and the problem with cities is you just have a lot of units that do almost nothing and then there's something that's the best version of them right whereas in whereas in seraphon they were just like okay basties are 230 yeah but if you take him in this they're going to shoot twice and you're like i'm in like because i want to run bastilladons i'm gonna play thunder like lizard yeah and i'm do you know what i mean like they gave that like and they did that fairly well with the zinch book as well fairly well like you know i want to run kary cackle it's there's something for that i want to run flamers there's something for that yeah i want to run screamers there's something for that some of it's a little bit more hit and miss but i feel like i don't like i feel like they're giving i want there's the unit i want to play and then they're giving me the rules to play my unit rather than there are the rules and i find the best unit to fit those rules no i agree that sub faction alignment because when you look you've got like the monster thing the sorus thing the skink thing right and and like yeah those are well aligned to these sorts of cadres of troops you'd want to run yeah and they they actually feel like they play at their optimum when they're in that particular thing and they're costly correctly yeah they beta tested that design when they wrote the mawtri book except they forgot to make anything good they're like i want to play lead belchers but they're terrible but if i take the lead belcher sub faction then they're just bad right can confirm i didn't know we were only choosing one and i need to complain about mawtribe at least a little we're not just choosing one it's legit okay go ahead take us through take us through your next one we'll do we'll do a couple rounds this because i want you to talk about ogres yes so the gut buster entire half of the book could get the stormcast treatment very comfortably it's an army that walks eight inches forward and your opponent doesn't have to plan for play around or think about anything there's no tricks and no surprise right they walk forward and they capture okay for the points you're paying and yeah it is so they don't really do much they do some good damage sometimes but it's a casino and almost everything is like either too expensive but it could be good like you know iron gods or even glottons and stuff and some of their heroes or like too expensive and kind of hopeless to be honest like man eaters like man eaters and lead belchers stuff like i really like do you think lead belchers couldn't just come down to some points and and they come down from points yeah it's just the way you'd want them fixed they're big ogres with cannons they should be holding a city's a sigmar canon that does a d6 and cost like more points per unit or something i don't know and to me it was a failure of like envisioning theme to rules for those guys like one damage cannons on basic glutton's with a single different like one more rend but one less attack it was um uh anyway it's it's boring rob were you playing warhammer back when the ogre book first came out like back in sixth edition no i played it in eighth okay so i was like i was playing back then and my buddy went and got the ogre as soon as they came out he was super excited for him still in my still in my group my club to this day and he went and got the ogres and he loved them thought they were awesome and he played those lead belchers and they were unreal dangerous like so deadly because they were what you just said joe they were walking forward with empire cannons and they would just like open up on you at a relatively shorter range but still long enough and units would just melt and like lead belchers were a thing they can write these rules like it can happen you know it's not it's not impossible yeah thunder tusk's a concern because it's um it's just kind of bad at everything right like it doesn't do any melee damage and they've they've specifically on purpose are written frost wreath ice to always be bad no matter what unit it's targeting so like you would target one guy and it's bad and it doesn't do a lot of damage but then if you target 10 guys it's proportionally still bad and if you target 20 or more guys it's like proportionally still bad so it has like no use at all and your prayers are garbage so you don't really want to husk out anyway so like what do you do drop their points there's still not really a reason to take any of them for the most part but if you drop them too much then you'll get like nine thunder tusk torbads that they just have stats at least and now you're running enough of them so that they just charge stuff over and over and now they're better than storm storm stone horns i don't know so they're in a in a strange they're in a goofy spot i think the savable units in the book can go down some percentage so that they're good and if you're not gonna fix war scrolls which you there's simply too many across the game to do then you know just kind of take some notes i guess for the next book right like sure yeah don't do the silveness thing where you hardly change any war scrolls and then the same problems that the units had before they still have and you're like so if you're not changing war scrolls in ghb's and you're not really changing them in battle towns like one of the stuff ever gonna get useful yeah i agree uh rob what should we get any other any like we still got more armies what else you want to see okay so this one's for tom uh so i would like to see reasonable changes for flamers uh because i agree obviously uh and pink horrors agreed but having played zinch a bit for a while now um i'd argue that it's a bit like a celeste in that it's not actually super survivable in of itself like it tanks on its wounds with the pinks then it does with its armor like um and there are some fast units ish you know skyfire still fast etc but like they don't actually ever overly deliver a knockout punch they don't really have the frost lord on stone horn like they got spells that you got to try on a cast and and i don't actually agree that the lord of changes is in that um magic dom category so two cast wizard that still rolls like it's not it's not up there really um i don't want to jump i understand he's only a two cast wizard he is yeah isn't how much is the lord of change right now three eight three eight okay like in my book first of all again hilarious 60 points more expensive than croak just the funniest thing in the universe um just continues to be completely obnoxious uh but at any rate he's in there because but as i explained it he's like the the husband who wants to experiment as a spell dom he's got like some fuzzy handcuffs in the in the nightstand right beside the bed right he's there because he can be he can still be potent uh because he can move the dice up he can get the bonuses a little bit you're right he's the he's kind of actually in a middle territory between like the garbage casters and the spell doms he's sort of like the bottom of that uppercut yeah he can he can still get it up yeah yeah but but but but like there's a lot of counter play against lord change obviously ignoring the portal which fyi my faq pick would be the portal is banned um that would be my faq pick pdf but like that was banned stop trying to fix it just banned the umbral spell portal banned just get it out done know what like like listen everyone goes what if i spell portal it should be gone um but yeah sorry anyway so my point is to tom because like i don't uh i don't know you vince as well like bothered by the flamers i recognize the flamers are good but actually when you start to talk about the output from zinch yeah where does the output come from if you take flamers away like if you nukes them into the ground like with seraphon if you take out croak and you take out salamanders they've got a range of options that they can still look at but when you start looking at zinch actually it's not an overly wide book they've got a lot of stuff that's meh like and a lot of stuff that requires rolling uh it doesn't have uh i mean i was trying for a while but with host alcanum and the the sharks but you just don't come up against monsters and wizards and you're like okay well i guess i lose today like it's uh so i recognize that there needs to be a change in zinch but actually i'd like to as much as i'd like to see the hit the flamers and i would like to see it um it doesn't have to be too severe i'd also like to see so maybe some points drops on some other units that are also gaunt summoner can just summon blues agree yeah yeah easy yeah gaunt summoner can just summon blues no problem there um so do you know i mean i think zinch is actually much more susceptible to just getting nuked more than we maybe realize well i'm with that yeah that's important can i go ahead like i think that actually zinch like finds correction very easy like with a very small change okay and i think that correction is um in in how pinks function okay um i think if you tweak that i think you could still leave flamers as aggressive okay and i know that a lot of people i've tried this out i think in a couple different environments but i think the fragile though right the flamers they're fragile they are they are and i acknowledge that um i think the real fix is that like you just shouldn't be able to bog like if it were me this is how i would fix it you change the restore mechanic on pinks anytime you replace models to the to a unit you replace to the weakest model type yes okay so instead of replacing models replacing pinks it always replaces like brims if you have brim if you don't have brims and only blues it replaces blues if you only have pinks it replaces pinks so what that would do is that it would immediately flip out the like every model one wound restored restores like five wounds yeah right and then and i would even consider they would never do this for lower purposes but if they went to uh one pink goes to one blue to to one brim yeah it would fix the problem completely because it'd be a 31 unit instead of a 51 unit yep a 30 wound spellcaster unit with range for 200 points yeah i mean i think that i i agree flamers need a uh you know like a a point's adjustment up although it does need to be like the end of the world i'm not i'm not croaking the salleys on them right right i agree but i think other things need to come down because what i don't want is the scaven syndrome here right where we only look at the stuff that's broken and actually just focus all of our attention on that not recognizing that there's other stuff in the book that's overcosted right like like xander like most of the zangor stuff could probably probably have some point's adjustments yeah like do a comparison like sit down and look at the numbers of like what you get for 200 points right between arcanites zangor and pinks correct and it's simply silly there's just no purpose to take anything but things yes right and so like if you changed it to like a 30 wound unit multiplying out restoring lower wounds instead of a 50 wound unit you're still like it still leans pigs let me just say that but it's better the comparison is more equitable yeah yeah and you always want to avoid the you know there might be an army that's legitimately a problematic or whatever but you don't want to just explode them and now they're terrible right because you didn't really realize it before because you didn't think about it but actually it was you know a rickety house built on the foundation of like one unit that was probably too good and when that's gone it's actually just a huge dump and that's and that's good you know and that's what and that's honestly what i feel seeing cheers because like they've got a lot of stuff in the same roles and those flame was almost needed for the range poke in some cases because other the other damage that you get in spellcasting comes if your opponent ever moved in range the turn before you hope uh but anyway that's but i recognize there needs to be a change and i do think that needs to be fine to be really good at something that's okay yeah it's the reason i want to see skyfires come back down in points because it's okay to have a good unit that's like kind of scary at range like i wish we had more intra army points differences when they have a different name right like i for instance i want enlightened on discs and boc to be like a hundred percent backed out they used to be but i don't want to give z inch that you know what i mean yeah yeah and if they're being called something different now i think we can well this would go to like the celestine prime 300 and storm cash 340 and every other army he allies into right that kind of thing sure yeah yeah i mean it may be too much but what if there were two columns yeah that's fine sure or there's there's already two you know one is called z inch skyfires and the other is called beast of chaos skyfires and they're bolded and there you go yeah i mean they already did that with giants and they reprinted them in 17 different books and gave them different points and different names so it's not like it's unprecedented yeah it's right it's a little more of a gray area because chaos tends to share units and just kind of does whatever it wants when it's sharing them half the time so that is a little messy i suppose but i feel like there's a solution there if you just kind of look at it yeah i agree it's what they should have done with old grim gassed reapers right yeah so they're still good but they're probably too good in alohan right so you just make the alohan ones go up a little bit and then night haunt doesn't have you know their their kool-aid dumped out when they weren't doing anything wrong yeah i mean they were getting the back and they're still too expensive even now i can't believe they didn't go down but whatever right it's fine yeah yep uh what other army haven't we touched yet obr fixed petrifici league there you go done thank you moving on other than that the army's fine yeah like it's it's a perfectly fine functional interesting fair army to play it's just petrifici league is busted so cool yeah keep the rend do something to the saves and then they'll take catacroas anyway and it's fine yeah or keep the saves and ditch the rend like i don't know whatever and drop the points on starkis stalkers and more palace garden yeah 100% easily drop them down to 160 make it aggressive and make people make the make the obr player think about what they need to build yeah definitely yeah what do we want to see with slaves uh uh demon rift go up sure like allegedly it's going up to 80 because we've seen like a potential maybe the points who knows right right i'm getting some push back in the chat yes of course petrifici is actually fine but enough people have complained about it that you have to bow to popular pressure and do something that it's just you have to do something that seems like it does something to the average person who's wrong already but doesn't actually do anything so that everyone's happy yeah i mean it's just it's an internal parody thing i think it is legit too good when anytime you get so this is kind of you know how magic looks at balance they don't look at it from one dimension they look at it from like eight dimensions right it's about what's a dex win percentage what's the engine that's pushing magic balance actually seriously oh yeah sure and they have like eight different dimensions they evaluate that on right yeah yeah in what percentage of winning dex is that card occurring and what percentage in the total meta is that card occurring and what percentage like how much was spread across the current available sets in the meta are cards being selected from like they look all over the place and like they attack this from lots of different ways and one of the one of the sort of red flags to them is when a single card shows up too much right uh it's also when a win deck when a deck has a 55% win yeah sure then it's like way too high and things get banned yeah yeah they specifically quoted imagine armies getting banned at 55 yeah i want to point out rob that they in the in the june first magic banning they actually had somebody quoted with the guy who wrote it which is like yin duke or somebody i think he said we were watching this deck and this deck drifted up to a 55 win rate which we thought was far too high so we're we're taking like we're banning out this card i thought you'd really enjoy that yeah if you still might be in heart like 70 that's fine so um but like you know petrificially or something like 99 plus of all selections that's a problem for internal pair yeah right so like i'm not asking to make it bad i'm asking to make it unbalance a choice i think there's still a good army can we buff the bad ones too though 100 yeah yeah absolutely i am totally up for that okay then bring our you know make arcanites great again yeah and we can shake hands through the screen and we're good like yeah yeah can we also can we also not make sub factions cost points can we make them cost points stop stop stop trying to ruin the game by costing everything no just build them correctly and and and get rid of the concept that they're not a thing by the way i this is part of the road that i knew we were going to go down if you go back to when they started introducing these sub factions i i even commented that this is a dangerous road right because what's going to happen is everybody's going to want them and then items need costs and then everything needs costs and it's like and now list building is a nightmare and we might and we're just playing eighth edition and it's everything's terrible again no stop trying to ruin more amber okay you can balance these i wouldn't be the terrorist if i wasn't trying at least sure the compromise is they just write better yeah and then you can you can balance these here's how you balance it you ready you actually make them good against each other which by the way they did in uh in uh realm lords where three out of the four of them i think are all actually quite compelling and one of them's kind of like man but still the fact that there's no i couldn't pull a best out of that book i mean people can say they think sarah is really good or the best or the caster one is really like i don't know the point is there are three that are compelling which ones i'll guarantee you something with lrl you're not going to see a 99 selection on them guarantee it no no yeah yeah yeah because if you if you like cows then you're taking america right and if you don't then you're probably not taking america like excuse exactly like that right same thing with seraphon by the way for the reasons you said okay like no i think i think i think seraphon example me is is the example where you don't need points on the sub factions what they do is they hardlock the units to be better in their own sub factions correct and i think that i think that's excellent i would prefer that don't let me wrong that's how they should be designed and by the way it's the same for lrl uh to a point where they're like the venari do better in this thing the casters do better in this thing like they're very focused sub-factor yeah and so when you roll up to the army doing what they told you which is just rule of cool everything you're like well i wanted to play with these guys and then this is the sub faction for those guys and then you just do that and then they're good yes uh and also mefisto is popping off in the chat because of because of course he is because we're talking about patchfix yeah uh but like but no there doesn't have to be a best and there won't be a 99 in lrl they're just won't like it's not the way that book's constructed for the same reason there's not a 99 percent in in in most of those books like that but like when you get a gristle gore or a patch effects that's when you get those things happening yeah um so like the other opportunity cost by the way is this right really good base command traits and really good base artifacts like compelling ones in your book and you make that opportunity cost bigger you understand what i'm saying yeah like if the base because you're given like you know should i go boulderhead well i give up zero good traits and zero good artifacts and i'm not even exaggerating well i guess i'll take a sub faction huh yeah exactly it's not a cost at all yeah yeah so if the sub factions are curtailed to certain units relatively well balanced against each other and have a real opportunity cost in the in the in the command trait and artifact thing then you actually have real choices yeah maybe i'm wrong rob i don't know what do you think have i convinced you if i brought you over no my preference is that they do better look it's a solid line we can all agree and if they don't agree with the better the first time they can always pdf it always always i guess i guess um i i think we are the punishers we whip ourselves right we're our own worst enemies in some cases because i want loads of options i want the anvil of apotheosis and i don't just want it now i want it to be like a billion times more combinations and i want to do it all yeah um and i want that but so if so you know if they release a new book it doesn't matter what it is they release a new book chaos dwarfs let's say they do chaos dwarfs right like like the apedia update yay and now i've got three sub factions and i'm like what only three but that's all i need like it's not a very big book like i don't have a lot of models available to me like and maybe they can only come up with two that are any good in which case fine one that the dwarfs are good in and one that the cows are good in and i'm like that's okay but then some people might be like that's not enough i feel like they feel like we need to have like they're like it needs to be a 70 page book or whatever it is so banging a couple of extra sub factions and have done with it sort of situation every okay go ahead go ahead i was just gonna say if you've only got three good ideas just do those sure yeah because at the end of the day every army only ends up using two of their sub factions anyway for the most part and two of their six spells and their spell lore and two of the artifacts out of the 24 artifacts they give you sure for the most part i'm exaggerating but on some no i mean some of this is obvious just stop writing really bad artifacts and really bad command traits it shouldn't be a real one perwound artifact in the game right can that just be saved yeah like you know when you write a book that you're writing bad artifacts like they have to know that yeah they're typing this command trait adds one to the wound characteristic of the hero and then they press enter and they're like yep that's a hot target right there i just write i just wrote that you can once per game uh re-roll a charge and you get plus one to bravery yeah i put that in there that happened how did they work it out how did that plus two bravery could we also i never want to see that ever again in my life in anvil plus one to bravery costs 10 points and it's so good you can only take it on a gargantuan mounted hero a command ability to add plus one to hit combat phase for within 18 inches causes zero and so i think this this should enlighten you to a little bit of the points discrepancies we've been seeing in their game yeah yeah that's true yeah that's true uh slaves uh i mean i hope they somehow fix marauders in the pdf and make them i don't think they will i think they'll just up their point some which is the wrong fix it's exactly the wrong fix yeah exactly but they also need to change warriors and choose it as well warriors so i was thinking about this i was thinking about the warrior problem the liberator problem the blood warrior problem the blood warrior problem sure absolutely all of these they're almost every 32 millimeter base problem is that they're just worse than a cloud of idiots with a bunch of buffs on them yes almost systematically almost i agree and these are all like anvil leaning units theoretically right i call them anvil leaning because it's not like they're really hardcore anvils right but like isn't the answer for these guys to just make them like actual elite troops like actually have elite profiles to where they actually have you know things like rend since 10 of them are effectively 180 or 200 points or whatever they're going to be right wouldn't the answer just be to actually make them worthwhile didn't we solve this when our boys went to 90 for five and they actually have like a true elite offensive profile and then people actually use them so shouldn't chaos warriors and liberators and all those things just have real elite profiles like if you don't want to give liby's rend because they're meant to be ultra defensive sure then okay put them on three ups rerolling or something like that like our true elite defensive profile yeah right yeah in other words make them worth usable and good yeah like when you read the story in the book and you're like every single liberator was a king right who also single-handedly fought off a hundred demons before he was killed and reforged and now he's on a 40 millimeter base with two garbage attacks i'm like worse than a bird right yeah like just stop thinking of them as fives and start thinking of them i don't care how you price them i'm saying think of them as 10 for x yeah and that's the stats they should carry and they just don't right now there's no way that charts out like that there's so many like quote unquote elite infantry that are like 10 for 130 10 440 that have vastly superior stats to the guys that are technically 10 for like 200 right the poor paladins for stormcast just stood there like what have we ever done wrong and the answer is nothing you're like you're like specialists in your field um like they or there's already an inherent cost in that they're not good against other units so they don't need to be expensive yeah like if they need yeah paladins should be what the liberators are right not necessarily the same cost but closer to that cost than where they are right because the stormcatcher supposed to be like everybody's uh everybody's george washington and you know there's some heroes from the heroes yeah yeah absolutely rose spier and stuff like in in big armor yes uh okay uh yeah i i completely agree and then beyond that like you know fix that stuff may cast night cast nights could be a little cheaper and that's fine that they probably are points thing and uh and then they'll be fine and competitive because they can actually get good enough with the bonuses if you just make them like a little cheaper put them in kind of that you know elite heavy and elite heavy cavalry range like pigs and stuff of that nature but blood or not blood crushers skull crushers and things of that nature so cool beans uh yeah who haven't we touched is that everybody have we fixed it did you say silver that everybody uh silver nuth was already quote unquote done uh i just wanted to know sorry can i just chip in on silver at the tiny bit please i just i just think i just think that in jane silent bob fashion they need to knock on the door of everyone who bought that book and apologize person to person yeah like yeah that's what we're sorry in the pdf um that's it yeah i don't disagree with that yeah yeah yeah uh oh yeah barren guard get a little cheaper too there you go that's fine super good with that all right yeah brand guard went down yeah so it is now reset the clock absolutely just like year for the game's entire history brand guard have either didn't have points or went down right right exactly uh i just i love how we're seeing them being playable in 2030 by this uh it's exciting how far they think 15 wounds can go um yeah it's cute so all right cool there we go uh i think we've solved it gentlemen we've done it all there all right game's fixed please enjoy uh we'll hopefully see that pdf sometime soon so hey well it's gonna be it's gonna be the two weeks i know it's gonna be two weeks i know but we'll see i i maintain hope chances are it'll drop tomorrow just despite me uh so we're right after the show it's either tomorrow or two weeks those the only options uh now i can do a show about it and you get double coverage so there you go for those views like and subscribe hey well thank you very much buddy for coming on today it was a great time yeah it was a pleasure rob thank you for staying up late with us appreciate it sir it's my pleasure you are wonderful gentleman and a great group of people to talk what i'm always so thank you thank you very much tommy appreciate it as always yep uh for all of you out there thank you so much for watching uh it's awesome to have you with us that you stuck with us for the whole three hour shows long when i didn't think this was gonna be this long but it was so hey if you like this and stuck around the whole time why not hit that like button look how easy it is to just move your mouse from like here over to here and click a little thing see it's that i've just done the amount of effort like five times i need you to do and if you do that it helps other people find the show which is really appreciated especially on a show like this where uh it's on a big popular topic and you know it just makes it easier for people to go out also if you smash that bell you'll get uh regular updates that's right so smash all the appropriate things do all that smashing but seriously thank you very much for watching i really appreciate it and as always we'll see you next wednesday


We are making crescent roll cinnamon rolls. I'm using my shortcut cinnamon roll recipe out of the volume 2 cookbook. It tells you to use a pizza roll dough. But now I like to use crescent roll dough. That was another recipe. So if you want to use crescent roll or pizza dough, whichever one. Now to use crescent roll, I have a whole dough that needs to be cooked. And I'm going to show you how to make these cinnamon rolls fast and easy. You're just going to unroll the dough like so. We're going to make, we're going to use two sheets of this because they're not real big. Wamp cinnamon rolls. What? Like the wamp biscuits where you pump it on the side of the counter. Oh. And it opens. Yeah, all righty. Get these out of here. It was high time I used these. I don't use them very much because I make my own biscuits and stuff. But I had volume to do something fun with you guys. And for the holidays and then didn't do it. You know how that goes. So I'm going to just press the seams together a little bit in the middle. Like so. It's a lot of repairing, doesn't it? Yeah, crescent roll dough is a little, um, Lindsay. So we're about to make it taste good. All right. So what we're going to do is we're going to mix up some cinnamon. Now you can spread the butter on here. Sprinkle the cinnamon and sugar on here if you're in a really big hurry. But today I am going to mix it up with my mixer. Do a good job. All right. Butter. That is six tablespoons of butter. Two tablespoons of cinnamon. Now if you don't like them this cinnamon-y, then you can use one tablespoon. And we're going to be using a third cup. Of sugar. Now you can also use, uh, like Splenda or something like that if you want to. And we're just going to mix this up. And if you're going to mix it, it sure is easier to use a mixer to mix it than it is to try to do it by hand. I suggest that if you're not going to mix it, that you just spread the butter on the roll first. And sprinkle your sugar and cinnamon on top of that. One thing I've noticed, I don't know if y'all have ever noticed this or not, but if you want to put these in the dishwasher, I can't put them in my dishwasher this way because the sticks go through the basket and they'll stop the spinner in the bottom of the dishwasher. So when you put them in the dishwasher, put them in this way. I don't know if y'all know that, but we've learned the hard way a few times. She's telling me to do that. Yes I am. Because I did it wrong. Chris does it backwards almost every time. And then everything in the dishwasher don't get clean. So you're going to put this out on your cinnamon rolls, really half it or try to half it. And now we're going to spread it. This recipe was actually, I believe it was for one roll of pizza roll though. So I don't know if it's going to be enough for two sheets of cinnamon rolls. I might have to make another batch. So we'll have extra cinnamon rolls too bad. I'm going to have to make another batch, unless you just want me to make one of these. We could just make one. Now we could just save that other one first. We can't save the other one. Once you open pizza roll though, I mean once you open crescent roll though or biscuit dough, you have to use it. Let's make another batch. Okay. That way we can put up the cinnamon rolls. I can eat one every once in a while. Okay. Plus the people that came on late can see how you made it. Okay. Six tablespoons of butter. It's supposed to be room temperature. It's hard as a rock. And so I have to zap this in the microwave real quick. You can put cream cheese on it as well. So here's our room temperature cream cheese. Let me see if that's soft enough to mix. Not really. Just a few more seconds. So we'll take our cream cheese and just spread it on here like so. Now the cream cheese of course is optional. Let me get this out because I am melting it now at this point. But let's finish this cream cheese. What I ought to do is just start these in the oven and then make the other ones. Yeah. That way y'all don't have to wait forever to see them done. Good idea. Yeah. Sometimes I'm pretty smart. And this is optional like I said. You don't have to add this cream cheese if you don't want to. Make sure it's good in room temperature so that you can spread it easy. Okay. And these little angled spatulas are the thing. If you don't have one for spreading, I'm telling you they're cheapest dirt on the website through Amazon. Please go through our links and get you one and you will be so glad you did. And if you don't have a mix and thing this size, this is really convenient for like beating up egg whites and doing things like that when you don't have a whole lot to mix up at one time. If you've got a hand mixer. All right. So we're going to roll these up. Now it's according to which direction you go as to how many layers you have. So if you want them to be real big, you roll it this way. And then if you want them to be different, then you roll them the other way. I usually pat them like this at the ends. We're going to get this. Now the other day, I used butter and I buttered the bottom of the dish and they stuck because the sugar, you know, seeping down on top of the pan with the butter just kind of hardened like candy. So you, it's better to use parchment really. So we're just going to cut these with a bread knife because that's the best way to do it to me. A lot of people use different things to do it. I've used them, but my favorite way is to, well, if I could find my bread knife, is to just use a bread knife. Yep. Everybody always says use dental floss. I'm going to go halfway, half, well, I think I'll go a third. We're going to make these big.  Yeah, a lot of people use dental floss and things like that, but if you've got a bread knife, which is serrated, you can cut bread and cinnamon rolls and them still be beautiful. Look at there. Look how pretty that is. And I'm going to set these apart from each other. Since they are so big, it's going to take them a little longer to get done because we made more layers, but boy, they're pretty ain't they? That's a pretty cinnamon roll. Look how easy that was. All right, we're going to get them in here and I've got it on convection so we don't have to wait forever. Now we're going to mix up some more and then we're going to mix up some vanilla icing. So if you came in a little later, you use six tablespoons of room temperature butter. Mine's a little bit liquidy because I've used the microwave. Two tablespoons of cinnamon and a third cup of sugar.  I think I said half. Well, it depends on what kind of you use. Yeah, I meant to tell them less and I told them more. That wasn't very smart. The thing about using imitation is you need to use it in the icing and... Well, no, the imitation, I know, but for glaze, it won't be a big deal. You don't think? No, no. Because I'm going to tell you that imitation powdered sugar is terrible. Oh, okay. Well, what in the world is going on? Oh, okay. So we're going to mix this up and this one's going to be a lot more liquidy because I melted that in the microwave. Now, my first was room temperature, so it wasn't that liquidy. All right, let's get this over so y'all can see. So you just take your dough. You mend it where it needs to be mended. That dough is kind of... You got two. Got kind of skinny when I mowed it. Oh. Okay, now we're just going to take this, spread it all over the top, and this one is going to be a little more like liquid, which might be easier for you to spread if you don't have one of those nice little spatulas. Oh, but I'm not going to put the cream cheese in these because I'm not going to be able to spread cream cheese on top of the cinnamon. If you get it liquidy like this, you need to spread your cream cheese first. And I didn't do that. So, because if I tried to spread cream cheese on this, it would just make a mess. You could make sure cream cheese in with this as well. What hurt mapping? This is crescent roll dough. It feels very crescent rolls. These are not my homemade cinnamon rolls. These are short cut cinnamon rolls. And let me tell you, I like them better. And the reason we like them better is you could put them in a container and just get them out and eat them at room temperature. And they're still nice and soft. And homemade cinnamon rolls aren't like that. You got to heat them up, get them warm for them to be really good. And these are always good to me. And I just like them and they're easy to make, y'all. They're super easy to make. So why not just make some? So if you want to roll them the other direction, of course, they'd be a little bitty mini cinnamon rolls. And if you make the mini cinnamon rolls, you could put them in a small muffin pan. But I don't even think I have one in the house, do I? So I can't show them. I think all I've got under here, y'all, is a big muffin pan. But I can look and make sure. And you can use pizza dough. I have this size. I don't know if it'll work, but we can try it. They'll stick in there. Um, I could spray it really good. Let's just do it for an experiment, y'all. I want to, since we already rolled up the other ones, or I'm going to have to stand this way to roll this direction, just to be safe. All my baking stuff, when we set up this kitchen, is right up under. And you can stretch them out and make them skinnier, too. Look at there. And that way they'll do better in that little bitty pan. All right, here we go. You give me some spray. Now you need to use baking spray that has the flour in it, if you got it. Do a really good job. I don't know how many it's going to make, so we'll stop there for now. Put one in the middle, and we'll make them about as tall. Now this is where I might need to use a string. Do you have to use the dent? Do you have to use? All right. They say dental floss, everybody. I don't have any dental floss that ain't got, we call it. Yeah, that's sticks right there. No, but we use the dental sticks. So, since this was wet, it might be a little messier. I'm doing pretty good. It's because mom is doing pretty good. You could just wipe your knife off as you go. Now look, y'all. Super Bowl Sunday's coming up. And these would be a hit, hit, hit. And you know what? They're both size. Yeah, and they're easy. They're going to be a hit with me in Korea, isn't they, baby? They'll be a hit with me. Winner or winner, cinnamon roll brunch. Cinnamon roll Super Bowl, that even rhymes. It does then. Yeah, maybe I'll rename this to cinnamon roll Super Bowl. Now these are your Super Bowl Cinnamon Rolls.  Okay, I think it's going to fill this pan up. Show enough. Y'all, look at the blur, look at the blur. Just think what you can put your mind to even when you hadn't planned it. Y'all are so nice to give me this great idea. I'm sure somebody else has done it on the internet, but this first time I've done it, you gotta spray that. Oh yeah, I do. Doggy. And remember, like I said, if you want the cream cheese in there, you can always add it with the cinnamon stuff and just spread it all at the same time. You can make a cream cheese vanilla icing if you'd rather do that. I gotta get four out of this. I don't know if I'm going to. I think I will. It just won't be real pretty because I got this too. Just make a cinnamon biscuit. This one don't hardly have any cinnamon in it. It'll go on my end. So there's your end cinnamon roll. But look at there. Looks good. We're going to slide them in. Oh, I gotta scoop these over. They shouldn't have a whole lot longer, shouldn't they? They're getting there. No, these don't rise up. These are like kind of flattening out. Well, they're crescent rolls. Yeah, those are crescent rolls. They're delicious. Absolutely delicious. No kidding. We just made these the other day for Facebook Live. And we're making them again for y'all because they were so good. We've been working hard. It's just at my daughter's house. She has a screen in porch. And the dogs have tore some holes in the screen. And a dog that they babysat, not our dogs. And so me and Chris are installing just a new screen. And we worked yesterday, and he does most of the labor. But if he needs somebody to hold something, I'm there. So we're finishing it up today. We got a good bit done yesterday. I'm going to go on Facebook Live and show y'all the porch. It's kind of a mess. If you want to see it, you can go to Facebook today. And I may wait and do the live once we get done with it. We didn't use all new materials. We reused all the slats and stuff. So it's not beautiful or anything. But for me and Chris to have done it, instead of having to hire somebody, is a pretty doggone good job. All right. I see. I'm going to use some half and half because I happened to have it. You can use canned milk or milk. All right. You're going to use a couple of tablespoons of butter, a little bit of vanilla. I think those have been in there maybe 10 minutes according to my clock on here. Well, they're big. I made them bigger than I did on Facebook. I rolled them the opposite direction, which is going to take them a little longer. Well, the poop. You're going to use about a cup and a half of powdered sugar. And I'm just going to mix this up with a spoon of spatula. And I spilled some of my powdered sugar. So let's get it back in here. Just wipe down or I'll explain. And we're going to see if I can just mix this up. I'm just going to add a little milk to it at a time because you got that butter in there too. Now, if you want to use cream cheese in your ice, and I would suggest you use a mixer to mix it up. And it probably won't take much milk at all if you use the cream cheese because it is at a soft consistency, just like butter. But now once butter gets to room temperature, you know, it's pretty hard, not hard, but thicker.  You don't want it to be real thin.   And that's it. So there is to it. Now I'll have to mix up some more icing for the little ones. You want me to press or can I just serve the little ones like they are? Oh, we don't. I like them without icing. Let me see if I think they're done. Yeah. Okay, now these are out. But remember, I had my oven on convection. And look at the difference in the end rolls. The reason they rose up high is because they had more dough on them because the ends were poking out, remember? And so they're really pretty, aren't they? But there they are, y'all, swimming in butter. Delish, delish, delish, delish. Now we're going to ice one, taste it, and y'all got a good little recipe for some mini cinnamon rolls and some big fat ones for you.  Get you two rolls just like me and Chris did. Make some big fat ones for you for breakfast on Super Bowl Sunday and then make the little bitty ones for your guests. And those little ones will kind of rise up because you're in those... They may. We're going to see. We'll take them out and look at them. Usually when you take even canned cinnamon rolls, y'all, and you put them in a regular muffin tin, they rise up like this. Make some really pretty. These are really hot. Super hot. I could just put a blob on each one. Yeah, that'll help. And let it get warm and then I could spread it. I think I'll say that one for a picture. You can see the cream cheese rain on it, can't you? Yeah. All right. So wasn't that easy, quick and easy? Looks like we got plenty of icing that even asked the little ones to me.  And some of you don't even eat icing on them. I don't really like icing as much as I like them without icing. When I put sugar in the cinnamon and cream cheese, I like just the little bites that's in there. I really do. See, they're rising up. Y'all can look at these right quick. See how they're doing? I do better to rotate them in my oven because my oven gets hotter in the back than it does in the front. So I'm going to rotate them on that side. All right, let's try one, y'all. Ready? I know you're ready. I mean, Chris, we're going to get to work today. They might be flat, but I'm telling you, they're delicious. I'll eat this one since it's not as flat. Ooh, they're hot. And cinnamon, I don't want to play cool all fast. And they got lots of cinnamon in them, y'all. Let's open it up. I don't want to get burnt. They're good every time, I think. These are better than the ones I made on Facebook because I used my recipe. The ones I made on Facebook, I just spread butter on it, spread cream cheese on it, sprinkled sugar on it, sprinkled cinnamon on it, roll them up. This one is even better because it has more cinnamon. It's just delicious. Uzi, a perfect recipe for you and your company. Look at those in the oven, y'all. Look at them. I'll let y'all see these before we leave. Ma'am, them look good. We will see you next time on Collard Valley Cooks. If you want to know what temperature, 350 with convection fan running. If you don't have the convection fan on, they come at 375. Bye, love ya.


It's echoes of the past for the Bemidji City Council as it looks to try again for a hospitality tax. The proposed tax would be used to fund the Sanford Center without using property taxes. The people that are talking to me own houses and they would like to see a property tax reduction. They would like to see, well, at least any future increases in our need to support the Sanford Center. During Monday's work session, council members agreed to form a committee to help develop their proposal. It was mentioned that while there is support for property tax relief, what the new tax supports could be in question. Everybody kind of just about having property tax money go into the event center. There's an appetite for it, but I think there's concern in the community about it just going towards the Sanford Centers. As the Bemidji City Council takes another crack at a hospitality tax, the hope is to have a united front, and that issues from the past don't resurface. Councilmember Johnson echoed concerns from the past when support for the proposed tax faded. A lot of people don't feel we're running that place efficiently and properly. That's just about a mind. If you ask them, and I've asked plenty of them, that's the reason they don't support the event center. We haven't done anything to show that we're trying to reduce the operational deficit. We haven't done a thing. But as the council looks to start the year off with a fresh start, the outlook is positive and to focus on the current need. I don't really want to rehash all that past. What I'd like to do is have this committee do some of those things, Ron, and figure out a strategy, why it makes sense, and then invite stakeholder groups into the discussion. Councilmembers agreed to have city staff move forward with the creation of a hospitality tax committee, while drumming up support from community partners to take the tax proposal to the next step. In Bemidji, Josh Peterson, Lakeland News. In order for the city to implement a special tax, it must receive approval from the state legislature. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


At the Santa Cruz County Animal Shelter, we see about 5,000 pets come through our shelter every year. Most of them are lost, strays. Many of them are reunited with their families, but far from all of them are. Our stray-hold period is four days, plus the day the animal comes in. After that, we must look for another home for that pet. If your pet is lost, act immediately. Do not assume that they will come home on their own, or that someone will bring them home. First, carefully check your whole home, inside and outside, and your yard. The cared pets often hide and hunker down very nearby. Next, walk your neighborhood, looking for your pet, and requesting your neighbors check their yards and their garages as well. Then come to the shelter and check for your pet. Create a lost pet report, leave a lost pet poster with a picture on our lost pet board. We post pictures online of all found pets in the care of the shelter, and record a found pet message nightly. But visiting the shelter every day or two is safest. Post an ad on Craigslist, flyers in your neighborhood, visit local vet clinics, and let your postal worker know your pet is missing. They have a unique way of seeing your neighborhood that might be of help. Be proactive. Make sure your pets have proper, current, legible identification. For cats and dogs, that includes microchip ID and an ID tag with contact information on their collars. For dogs over four months old, a county license is required as well. The shelter does microchipping for only $15. Remember, we live in earthquake, fire, and flood areas. Make sure your pets have identification to help them get home to you if they are lost.