Next question is from C. Greenwood 32. How do you program a balance between performance and aesthetics? You know what's funny? We get a question like this. Every week. Every single week, right? Yeah. Okay, here's the thing. For most people, what I'm going to say is, for the average person, focus on performance. And here's why. Focusing on performance is going to give you a great deal of aesthetics. And performance is more of an objective measure. So you either get stronger or you don't. You either gain more stamina or you don't. Aesthetics, like define aesthetics. Define what looks good. It can be very challenging. Very subjective. Very subjective. And people really mess with their own heads. Someone may lose weight on the scale, but lose a lot of muscle. But because they're smaller, they're happy. No, no, no. I did a good job. I lost weight. Not caring about the fact that maybe they lost a lot of muscle because they're so aesthetically driven. In my experience, again, this is the average client. People who are more performance driven to end up with a greater deal of performance and aesthetics than people who are only aesthetics driven. Okay. Now there's a caveat here. I think as you become more advanced, you've been training for a while, you're not going to see regular gains and performance. I'm not going to, I don't expect to see regular gains and performance anymore with myself. I've been training for so long. If I gained five pounds on a lift, that's like a big deal, right? It's not like it was when I first started working out. Now I can focus more on aesthetics. I have a good performance base. I have a kind of healthy relationship with exercise. But, you know, the way I would train clients for most of my, well, I'd say for that back half of my career when I got really good at it was I would have them focus on performance and the aesthetics almost always followed. Yeah. If you start with that as the foundation, it's just a healthier mindset that's, you know, more sustainable. And I don't, I don't think that it's a bad thing to focus on aesthetics. And I think that, you know, that's something that can take, you can, you can then go from your, your hyper focus of performance and then build upon that to now enhance areas of your body that you want to single out. And there's a way that's different to train for that. And it's beneficial to your body to step out of, you know, the performance heavy initiative. But the reverse of that to me is just, it's a lot, it's a lot more challenging when the driving force is just how you look. Because again, the psychology of that is a lot harder to step away from. Why we get this question so often is because there's more than one way to skin a cat. I think that there's, there's more than one way to approach this, you know, and a lot of that has to depend on what is more of a priority to you or maybe where you're currently at right now or maybe what you've done in the past. Like there's a lot of different factors that may change exactly what the programming looks, but we, for people that want this and don't know, we created a bundle for this. We have a sexy athlete bundle and that's, and basically what it is is the, it's the combining of maps, performance and maps aesthetic together. So we've, we've taken a lot of the principles from maps aesthetic, we've taken a lot of the principles from maps performance and then we've put them together to show you how we would blend the two of them. But it doesn't mean it's the only way to go about that and it doesn't necessarily mean it's perfect for every single person, but to give you a really good idea of what programming would look like for somebody who wants to be athletic, but then also cares about how they look. I mean, that's how I would approach it. Yeah, it's just, I, you know, I know when I would, I'm sure you guys experienced this too when I would train clients, you know, the average person works out because of aesthetics. Like the average person doesn't think to themselves I'm going to squat 300 pounds or I'm going to, you know, have this particular type of performance. They think I want to round her butt. I want to be leaner and what I would do often is I would, for example, I have a female client that wants to, you know, build her butt and sculpt her legs and, you know, her back and I would say, okay, here's what we're going to do. I want you to be able to squat 150 pounds for reps.  Let's just focus on those and then let's see what happens and sure enough they would take their mind off of their aesthetics. They'd focus on the goals that I gave them and then they would hit those goals or in the pursuit of those goals, they would gain the aesthetics. Same thing with guys, you know, some guy would hire me and say, I want a bigger chest.  I want more muscular. I'd say, okay, here's what we're going to focus on. I want you to get to this bench press, this overhead press, this deadlift, this row. Don't focus on your looks and let's just see what happens. And again, sure enough because their strength went up and they focused on performance, they would gain the aesthetics. Now, of course, at some point, like I said earlier, then it makes sense to focus on aesthetics because you're not going to always gain strength or performance linearly. But for most people, if you go to the gym and you haven't been working out for more than three or four years consistently, you go to the gym and all you're focused on is can I move better? Am I getting stronger? Can I connect to the exercises better? You're going to look better. Think about it this way, if you were fit, strong, and mobile in your performance, how would your body look? Now imagine if all you cared about were your looks. You didn't care about performance. There's a lot of mistakes you can make. There's so many different mistakes you can make. There's so many subjective errors that we tend to have, oh my God, I'm a little bloated. Crash diets, these things kind of sneak in. Yeah, so that's why I tell people to typically focus on performance and the aesthetics will follow. Like I said, if you've been training for a long time and you're not going to get those performance gains like you did when you were first started working out, then it makes sense. You focus on sculpting and connecting and you're doing more bodybuilding and all that stuff. So I still stand by that. I think it's a good idea for most people to focus on performance because the aesthetics typically will follow.


So welcome everyone. Thank you for joining this panel discussion Q&A with the Selenium committee Thank you for being here virtually from different parts of the world and I just want to say on behalf of everyone first that This team and many others behind the scene who could not make it over here as well You have made test automation space very interesting challenging fun and I've helped and impacted Millions of people and I don't think I'm exaggerating With your contributions in more ways than you can imagine Jim already shared some stories around this earlier But what he had some people say to him and that is not an understatement. So thank you all on behalf of everyone and Audience can I get a huge round of thumbs up for this team? Oh, wow. Thank you everyone Okay, so let's keep the energy going and let's start to start off with that could be quite a few people in the audience who Unfortunately, do not know much about you or what your key focus area on the company is on the project is So if you can quickly go around and maybe we start off on the images as we see on screen Manoj if you can do a quick introduction of yourself. What is your primary focus on the project and What is one interesting fact about yourself? You can share and then you can pass it on to the person next to you and we proceed that way Cool. Thanks. Thanks for your generous introduction Thanks for joining in I am Manoj as most of you know and I've been in the project for many years now Now on and off actively my major focus with the project is mainly on documentation and website and Right now my focus is on the project leadership committee and conference organizing But once I free up I intend to go back and Contribute some code on the task of findings and I've done a few bit of things on fluency. They may I'm a doctor on and off and that's my contributions considering project and hoping to do more striving finding free time and Fun fact about me and I love sports and I love running and and and I don't know if You can message me and and ask if it's true or not. I've finished my 5k in 17 minutes I've kilometers in 17 minutes and I just I will just leave it up there to see whether it's it's true or not and I'll pick next All right, I'll pick Diego next Hi, so I'm Diego. I am like in different parts of the project nowadays Dr. Selenium great documentation So I think the interesting fact is that I don't have so much focus because I'm trying to do different things at the same time but also a person who is very much into sports and Yeah Food that was one of the main things that I miss about the conference this year like eating Indian food So I miss being there But that's me. So if you need anything from the project, I spend most of my time in the slack channel Bingers and we're happy to help you and welcome the welcome you to the community I'll pick Jim Thank you, Manu. Thank you, Diego. I am My name is Jim Evans. I am mostly responsible in the project for the dot-net bindings I've also am responsible for the Internet Explorer driver And those I'm a member of the project leadership committee And those are the things that I spend a lot of time working on on the project you can find me Almost always in the Selenium IRC channel or slack channel Yeah, almost always during US East Coast business hours almost always and So feel free to reach me out there reach out to me there if you're curious or have questions I am a fun fact about me. I am in addition to being a computer dude. I am also a singer songwriter recording artist and Have put out a couple of albums and That's that's that's the fun fact about me I'm going to pass things over to uh to to shrie We can't hey you dude Oh, we still can't hear you shrie There we go No, we'll go Well, let's move to simon and then we can come back to shrie is as he uh, as he is as he we figure out his audio challenges Simon my friend Hi Yeah, so I'm I'm simons. Stuart. Um I I I created web driver And thought it would take six months to finish which shows that I am also a software engineer With the classic ability of a software engineer to estimate time Um, I am the leader of the project and I took out from jason huggins quite a long time ago I'm the co-editor of the w3c specification. Um, I look after the jiva java bindings. I Corral various people to do various things at various times And um, I just do like stuff to help wherever I can um interesting facts about me I I guess the sport thing is I love surfing, but I am absolutely terrible at it Um, and I'm also notoriously unable to use an email client um So the best way to get hold of me is probably either through through The isc channel the slack channel or just ping me on on twitter where I appear to live Um, shree, welcome back Yep, simon. Uh, can you hear me now? Yes Great, great. So what happened is I think so yesterday's dia goes a great workshop blocked my laptop entirely So, uh, this is harsha and I'm the new member of selenium team And I have started contributing through selenium documentation and recently I have I have contributing to the selenium core base and I have started with javascript because I love javascript and the most fun fact is I love breaking things and later I realize and I start contributing to it That's also great Thanks for all the Work that you're doing and the fun facts that you shared shree. Let's start with you As a first question since you're the newest member on this team here The prior selenium conferences you have been on the other side in the audience Listening to this great panel about what work is happening what they have been doing Yes, so it's a multi-part question How does it feel to come on stage and share stage with these great folks and second What is that one challenge that really stands out to you which you faced in your journey to get on stage? And how did you overcome that? Okay, yes, so um as as I said earlier in the previous uh fire base chat It has started with the selenium 2018 conference where I was in the committee's panel And you know, uh, I was the last bencher in that selenium conference like over there are like 400 people And I was sitting in the last chair of the selenium conference hall I was listening to the monos Speech and the simon speech and later I have decided to be the selenium contributor because uh, you know selenium is an open source open source thing and a lot of people are spending their time to Uh contributed the selenium to make it better So I have I have made my goal like okay. I should at least contribute to the selenium And I and I today I feel very happy to be here with the committee's panel Because it was always my dream. I it was the dream set at 2018 selenium conference And when I met in this when I met simon in the uh fix book became become a commuter workshop I in the when I saw all people in the selenium panel or commuter's panel So the most challenge, um I feel is like, you know, uh, it took some time to me to understand the selenium code base and how to Create a pull request or how to raise the issue or something because It took one year to get my first pr accepted in the selenium code base So, uh, even I I always love that because uh, even it was an interesting fact, you know, how I got uh, how What was my first pr merge is the type error That I fixed in the jays bindings and the simon was the one who accepted the pr and said, thank you So it is the journey how I get started with the selenium code base Great thanks for sharing that I am sure that's very inspiring And motivating for others as well. It doesn't matter which bench or where in the hall you are sitting You can do a lot of things and you can get up on stage as well So great to see you over here. So Before I ask the next question to the panel I to the audience any questions you have for the panel that you would like to ask Please ask that in the q&a section of the discuss panel and we'll pick up the questions are based on the top voted ones that are there So while we get the questions rolling, uh, I'll start off with a question for the panel and I'll go around in this case asking folks The question is with selenium for around the corner or Coming on the new year chinese new year or christmas time depending on the way how you look at it What is your favorite feature or capability in selenium for that you are looking forward to getting out there and why And uh, Diego, maybe we'll start with you Thank you. Uh, yeah, we have several cool features that will Enable the community to do better testing or more expensive testing in through webdiver But I I feel that the best thing we're doing right now in the project and taking the opportunity that's coming out Is is making the the the environment more welcoming for everyone So working on the governance document working on better ways to contribute to documents to the code base So this is also part of selenium for is not only the features But all the surrounding environment that is more open and more welcoming. We have documentation now in I think seven different languages Uh, chinese german spanish and so on so more people can actually interact with selenium and maybe this will play Quite well in the long term that people from different Countries and and languages will actually be able to access the the project and will end up contributing so for me that's Maybe a non-technical feature, but it's the most vital for me right now That's amazing. It will have more people be able to use it in a effective way And that's a great feature now. Thanks for that uh Jim Well, I don't know if it's necessarily my favorite feature um, but I'm a uh, I'm I'm I'm pleased that we are able to offer uh Something related to Uh, browser debugging protocols and a bi-directional communication mechanism Uh between the browser or the driver and the selenium code Um, I'm I'm looking forward to seeing that evolve over time as certain uh spec Uh as as we start to get the the the bi-directional communication protocol Uh formalized in a specification process that'll make things a lot better Uh for that, but uh, I'm I'm very happy to see to see a bi-directional Communication in some form available in selenium for Thanks for that. Oh So when coming to this uh Favorite feature or something, you know, the selenium is the favorite of the bunch of uh favorite features, you know I can't pick some feature and I can't say directly So selenium as part of full is the greatest thing so, uh When coming to the uh selenium for what I like these whatever the jim say like a web browser bi-directional protocol And the relative look it is what simon mentioned yesterday and also the main code documentation part where people get started So these are all the favorite things of mine and I love contributing to these things. These are my favorite features here Awesome Simon Favorite thing I did okay. There's so many nice nice bits of technology in here like Uh the cdp stuff that the support for the debugging protocol um Selenium certainly in the java bindings hopefully and everything else can support more than one version of chrome at the same time Which is kind of what you expect to be able to do but appears to be unique um The new grid is going to be a lot of fun Um support for docker the support for open telemetry and being able to sort of introspect into it Is uh is really good and I I love the sort of renewed energy that the project currently has right now Like if I had to pick any one thing it would be the renewed energy Around the project. I think I love that. Wow That's great Manoj It's always tough if you go lost of the people right you run out of options and and Relative locators, they're awesome I think that's something I should have picked up And I was really hoping to share something around the selenium grid, which again you picked up But nevertheless, I'll talk about it So I think the most interesting part for me is the new improvements that I've been making in selenium grid Um, if you're in the workshop yesterday, I think in Thursday, we would have covered Pretty extensive about it. Uh in more particularly, um, you have changed your architecture in the way how we work Uh, just you know moving from a hub and node to a five components right now and mode around the tracing capabilities I think a lot of companies being a consultant I know there is a momentum and shift towards observability right and and having that sort of capability coming in Uh from running your end to end test is what what what more you could ask for that? That's to me the best part that's part of selenium 4 Great now. Thanks for sharing for what this question actually did That is it gave a overview about a lot of different interesting cool features that are coming up in selenium 4 and the next obvious question related with that Is I'm going to pick it up. It's just got the highest vote When can we expect selenium 4 stable version launch? So shall I have a go at that? Literally the doorbell does well It's an excellent question Uh, we are working as fast as we can. Um, there is a sort of Kanban board of like tasks that we need to do things that are in progress and things that have been completed on the github project and and you can find those Pretty easily and and when they're done they're done and and we'll ship selenium 4 Practically, uh, I said this yesterday. I think we are on the last alpha of Selenium 4 and at that point I think we've got all the features that we think we need to have But they may not be completely stable And then we'll use the beaters to get them stable based on the feedback that people are giving us Um, so I mean I hope to have it out by Chinese new year Notice folks notice folks that he hasn't actually specified which year I have to be very clear because the last time we had a joke about Christmas being available by Christmas It got misinterpreted in some of the blog posts out there that it was coming by that coming Christmas And we're not specifying a date. Unfortunately, and here's the reality of things folks All of us are are simply volunteers, right? We all have day jobs We all have jobs that we work to get to pay the bills pay the mortgage speed our families We don't get paid to work on selenium. So, um, that's one of sort of the barriers in terms of being able to to to to produce a hard and fast date because sometimes, you know If I get a project at work that that has to be done by a certain deadline, I'm getting paid to do that You know, if I don't do that I lose my house. So, so, um, so, you know I understand that the necessity and the desire to want a a a a hard and fast date, but please I would appreciate your patience if we can't that we can't Specify a hard and fast date be just because life sometimes get in the way of of of us of us being able to to write all the code that we want to uh as volunteers I I do have one thing to add Which is like, I know we haven't got 4.0 out the door yet But if you're using just the local end if you use in the language bindings So I think most people are and you're not using like grid. You're not using Some of the sort of super weird some of the service that features Then you could try dropping in each of the bindings now to your project And they should just work and when I say they should just work I mean they should work properly rather than they barely work, right? If they don't work you should let us know There are some things that we've deprecated in the last 3.x release So 3.1 for 159 in the in the Java tree and if you rely on those then they may have disappeared But if your code compiles cleanly on with selenium 3 it should just work with selenium 4 So you can start giving us feedback on that right now That's great points. Uh, and that's also very Intune being very in tune with reality gem. Thanks for that aspect as well. So Uh Moving to the next question with the growing capability of selenium Can we expect open source support extended for desktop app automation as well? Oh, I know this one. I know the answer to this one There there's already there there's already a desktop application Um Project that uses the selenium the web driver protocol to automate desktop applications on on for windows in particular It's it's called winium And it's available out there. I believe Appium has support for it already. Uh, so it's it's it's uh, you know, I The selenium project going forward just for just speaking for the selenium project We're gonna we're gonna, uh, we're gonna concentrate on browsers because that's what we do Um, but but there are other other companion projects already already in existence That that that do desktop application automation using the selenium api and the selenium and the web driver protocol So that's already that that's already working exactly and they also have an integration for Apps that run on on macOS So windows and markets covered by a couple of integrations that appium has so Would be cool to see more demos of that Yeah That's great Thank you The next question. Hey, there we go Hey, let's do get more likes Yeah, yes some more some more likes for macOS Yeah, the next question Any labels or way to identify easy to fix a bug for people who are new to contribute Not yet to be honest. This is something we we have We haven't spent a lot of time but what we are focusing in the last two weeks because there is this upcoming month There is the October 1st event and we are going to spend at least i'm committing myself and and I think David will do some some work with like his team will do some of its work and we'll start to Like refine some open open GitHub issues So people can jump into them and be part of that event So we're working on that. It's something that we identify that We should improve and and we're we're gonna do that something We're going to do something soon during this week this week that starts on Monday To to be better on that We do have a new triage team So maybe maybe we could go through some of those bugs We have a few issues, right? Quite a few yes, so that Looking at what the triage team is prioritizing that potentially is one way to look at is what Simon is suggesting, right? So um The next question. Do you think ios integration with docker will be a reality soon? Uh So i mean docker is a containerization technology built upon a bunch of things that are sitting inside the linux kernel um and ios who's not linux so I don't I mean What can you say it's it? I have no idea No, I mean ios is an operating system for mobile devices and docker is running on That's a operating system. So I cannot feel a triangle in a circle Well, if the circle is big enough But yeah, we had a really big circle it would I think the question is coming from There are docker images for api and android. I guess I think that's fair. Uh questions coming from Yeah, I think that's it is there. It's it's sort of different I mean i've written docker images for android before and what you do is you Get the the intel version of android running on the intel version of linux running on And you expose a kvm and you do all sorts of nasty hacks It is it's like the sort of tower of babel right where you've just got everything piled up and then magically you have android um Yeah Okay, hopefully that gives some clarity on which direction to expect that integration to happen um The next set of questions are Interesting in a different way because it's not directly related to selenium in that sense but What are the thoughts on in-sprint automation? I'm not sure what that means. Do we mean things like Like gira tracking and kanban boards and swim lanes. So do we mean we should be writing tests during The sprint or correct correct so Completing all aspects of development and testing including automation in that same sprint I mean, how could you even do it any other way? I am perplexed by that like like a The mature software developer doesn't just write code right matt price said he could write code really quickly As long as he doesn't have to prove it doesn't work But that's now used to man nor beast right what you need is to be able to demonstrate that the feature you've been working on during a sprint Functions and one of the ways you do that is you put the automated tests around it And unless you have those tests you can't really say that you have completed the feature In in my humble opinion. Um, does anyone else Have anything to add to that or disagree with me violently? I think it makes sense. I think I've come across a lot of these questions and in at least In the local events and I know the background because I've seen a lot of People are moving into this sort of momentum because As far as I've known, you know, we used to do massive massive number of tests like I've heard companies and projects having You know, uh, 5,000 6,000 number of selenium tests and you know from a team I can see that reaction Um, so when they move into the real agile world and I think that's where the question is going from like Do you believe in in automation? How it's done? I think in my opinion As Simon says thing as long as it's it's part of your definition of done like you should try to Do that, uh, as long as it's automated or manual, uh, I believe quality comes from first in that space and and yeah It is very important Any other thoughts anyone would like to add on that? No Okay, yeah, no Yeah, a lot of processes practices Collaboration needs to happen to make that work in Complete automation in sprint. So I completely agree that should be the way you need to get to Also what Manoj shared about a few thousand tests That is one aspect But also how many more are you looking to add in each sprint? And why is that as big a challenge to complete in that sprint itself? That would be a question that I would also ask and focus on that aspect, right? But yes, there's nothing stopping from completing the activity in that sprint So just my additional two cents on that question But um, the next one is selenium focused What is the biggest challenge currently the selenium team is project is facing in terms of competing with other market leading tools so market leading tools I think if the language is anything other than java scripts Uh, I think selenium Or projects that that the use selenium are probably like the clear runaway leaders. Um, I think We dropped the ball a bit with java scripts Uh, and in the java script world That does appear to be this acceptance that we should have a everything should be based off chrome and the cdp and So you get you get these this tooling that that's based on that I think the way that we're responding to that is actually probably the healthiest in the in the long term which is um First of all to take advantage of the underlying protocol, but not to expose it as the raw protocol like it's there if you need it, but just You know relying on that to write your test leads to things that are incredibly brittle because that protocol is tied Intimately to the browser and it changes with every every release Which is why sort of if you update puppeteer, for example, you get a specific version of payment. That is what your test used um I think one of the things that we we can do to respond and which i'm endlessly grateful to to shrieker being here is To improve our java script bindings, right? There is definitely work to be done around that Um, and I think that would be a a sensible thing to do um, and then the other thing is Lots of the competing frameworks have um They're like batteries included right they come with test runners and formatters and la de verre and things for downloading Ferris bits and pieces and what we've said is like we're a browser automation framework And so we're just going to automate the browser and you will need to figure out how to pull Those other things together that you need and maybe making that a bit easier is going to be Something that's going to be more important moving forward, particularly as Things like msh driver is tied to very very tightly to versions of edge And deta for for chrome and creme driver That's me done. Does anyone else? Well, I go ahead Jim I was just gonna say I think I think that that that also one of the frustrating things about um about the selenium about about So-called or you know as the question put it competing Project Is that selenium because it's been around for a while um, it has a reputation or has a a certain You know, it's it's not it's not new and shiny. So it's not exciting So so people don't get excited about using it because it's not new and shiny um And you know I'm I'm not there. There's a reason that the keystone in an arch Has been around for thousands of years because it just works. It's it's it's the right way to it's right It's the right way to engineer that kind of thing And it's it's it's challenging to see some other frameworks choosing paths that Selenium chose once before and rejected for going In favor of a way that we believe is better uh, but other but but those other competing projects being seen as Better because they're newer. Um, I guess that's what I mean. So so communication of of of Hey, you know selenium has been around for a while. Yes, but It it still is a great way to do things and it's based on an open standard That's that's built on that that's supported by multiple browser vendors as opposed to As opposed to other solutions that rely on a A technology that's controlled by a single entity that that could change out from underneath you at any time Without warning. So that that that kind of communication and getting that that Getting that understanding across in in a way that that um That resonates with people Is is a real challenge But what I wanted to add to that um, I I see as the biggest challenge right now is the Large amount of information that is going around the different projects and I strongly believe that The information is not well shaped and I I am on the position. This is most more my personal opinion that that if you want to choose a different tool like Cypress or puppeteer or playwright If you understand and you can give reasons why you choose that again Instead of selenium, then I I I'm totally with you But most of the time people are choosing things because it's new or it's different or it's like having automatic weights So that's the most Important challenge. I see that people are not getting informed before choosing a tool and to go with the Comments of the were made a moment ago This is based on standards and all browsers will support it. So if you want reliable um strong Automation in the long term with browsers Like stay with web driver And selenium will be the the best bet. I think that the that's the main challenge. I see with the Large amount of misinformation going I think just to add my two cents completely second word, you know, Simon Diego has been saying around I think if I recollect and put it in summary, I think You are the better What other projects market leading for tools that you mentioned apart from JavaScript could be this point on Using using tools for a longer time. I think it's all all completely makes sense And and I think if you look at the other projects per se, I think there's also Jason Huggins who was tweeting it tweeting about it with last month or last couple of weeks back is It's all about the way that is being projected and and the messaging that has been gone through Where uh, in a nutshell if you see it solves radio marci's architecture And there is a reason why we move to web driver and and it's all about javascript sandbox, you know, um, and If you look at deep dive as Diego mentioned and see what really works and what is so probably going to solve I think I don't make then it will make a lot of really sense to choose which tool that I think so I'm not sure because there are a lot of test automation engineers who are new to the test automation thing So the best the first thing they do is they look for automation tools And uh, basically the selenium will be the first one and there will be a lot of best 2020 automation tools in the list of of 10 so What I can suggest to people Is like there is no other tool. I see which implements the pure web driver Protocol here, so I see the selenium as the only tool which supports a pure web Which implements the web driver specification So and also it supports cross-border testing like in many browsers like five fox chrome and whatever the browser is You know, if I take any other different tool, uh, it may it it may support the web driver specification But it only sticks to the one browser vendor or They support cross-border testing, but they does not Follow the web driver specification So I see such kind of things with other tools, but uh, when I when I suggest to the people I see like, okay, go for the selenium. It is the pure web driver implementation. So it is the best source for the tool Okay Great. Thank you everyone for those answers to our details We have a ton of questions that are there. You know, so I'm going to try and pick an interest of time pick the ones which have most relevant from the New upcoming selenium feature as well or release as well. So currently We use third-party reporting libraries for generating reports In future versions, can we expect to generate report within selenium? I mean test reports depend on your test runner and we don't include a test runner with selenium because we do browser automation So I don't see it in the Java tree Um, the nice thing is that actually gives you a lot of freedom, right? You can pick the tool that you think is is most appropriate um In line with my previous comments though, I think it would be nice if we like like said if you use this then we recommend using this as well and That'll make it easier for you Great. Thanks, Simon. The next one probably is a more involved question How is the bi-directional protocol work? You know, how does it work behind the scene? any performance implications and also what are the difference between Other tools such as puppeteer playwright, which is also bi-directional by nature So it's a loaded question. Shall I have a go at it again then? um So performance implications the thing with selenium Though the original word driver protocol is its request response, right? And it's not very chatty. It does a lot of stuff with each request um, the thing with debugging protocols is they are incredibly chatty They are very very opposed and when you're running on on your local machine Actually, that doesn't matter too much But as you start doing things like running on on a grid for example We have your test running locally and you're up in, you know, source labs or browser stack or something like that Um, then you will start seeing that sort of bi-directional protocol having a performance implication Which is why having the request response thing is is really useful Um Right now the way that we are implementing the stuff is actually on top of the cram debugging protocol Um, so we are taking advantage of the same underlying tool set that tools such as puppeteer are doing The other thing we're doing is we are working with the w3c the world web consortium on the web driver by that specification And a lot of those people in the working groups have been involved with debugging protocols and and and particularly from the chrome team and and microsoft as well working on That that specification we should be seeing the underlying protocol used by the browsers Start being exposed more more like the the standardized version um, so ultimately I think we're going to end up with A bi-directional protocol that is a super set of what we have in the current web driver But with the current web driver being available for bandwidth constrained usages Jim do you want to add anything to that? No, you covered basically what I was going to to mention was that that currently we're basing off of the chrome debugging protocol but going forward Going forward We we we're working with the the standard group to make us to to to produce a standardized Version that then all all browser vendors can take advantage of And implement and and and that's really the key for cross browser work, right? It's it's it's getting something that is standardized that a browser vendor itself can support in its tools uh in order to so that so that uh A project like selenium doesn't have to worry about Six different dialects of a given protocol of how things how things enter off, right? Makes sense Thank you. The next questions are hopefully not as loaded So are we seeing any features in selenium for or future versions to be paid? features No No, absolutely not I think we've got a consensus in within a couple of seconds. That was super fast. Thank you Okay, the next one also is probably a very quick question. When is the next selenium conference? Okay, I can take tonight the next one is 2021 October November we haven't finalized the exact dates. Um, it's going to be full full season in the u.s. Chicago somewhere around October or November It's going to be in Chicago. Yes, that's that's seven or 2021 though You'll get a new teacher Okay, so in interest of time I'm going to ask one last question And we'll go around for everyone in this one. So it's again a two-part question What are the different things you have used selenium for other than automating tests? And the second part to that is if the project did not exist, what else would you use? Manoj, you were last In the earlier round. Do you want to start? I need some time to think Okay, I can answer the first question I can answer the first question very very very quickly because I have a use case Right away that I know I've used I've used selenium for that's not for testing My my beautiful wife is a medical professional She is a mental health professional and has her own mental health counseling practice and we needed to move our Electronic medical records from one vendor to another we were moving to vendors to a new emr package and because of the medical records Keeping requirements in the united states We needed to have a way to To extract all of our all of the medical records for her existing patients And our vendor The old vendor did not provide us with an api to use to be able to extract those So I I wrote a little selenium script that that that went through and and extracted all of the patient medical records Um Logging in appropriately with our you know with with with the appropriate username and password and and so you know You can do anything that was that that was hacking But we but but we were able to extract all of that data so that we can so that we can maintain it and archive it Before before moving before moving on as for what I would use if I wasn't using selenium selenium didn't exist I Probably some combination of I com and The what is now the marionette protocol and the cdp to get cross browser stuff working You know probably something like that nice It's very interesting use as well as Potential alternate Okay Oh who wants to go night? All right Okay minute Okay, go. Sorry So interesting use case I think the most reason one was automating the E-pass application. I think folks in India would know about it I was stuck in Bangalore. Um, I went for a project purpose and I was stuck there and and Um, it's it's a fun stuff automating that. I think there is an OTP part But excluding that there was an interesting use cadence, you know, save tons of time for me and then luckily I got it Approved so that's my success successful protection story apart from the work that I do to get paid and other things that I wanted to work mention is Is a person calls Darshan. He's been doing excellent stuff with selenium like automating the The t-rex on on the Google Chrome offline stuff That you could play with your keys. Um, and I think it's doing tons of stuff using selenium and all those are interesting cases and and and as as the Tagline in the selenium god dev if you've been there, it says uh selenium used for browser automation, but then Now, uh, you can use it up to whatever you want and and it's all up to you And I think that's that's the tagline and then Those use cases are pretty good example for that And what I would be using if it's not selenium So honestly, um, when I found my career Selenium and uh, there was one other tool that I was introduced to and I got into selenium since then and I never looked back So possibly if not selenium, then it would be Sahi uh from Nara and Raman, I think Yeah, my my use case is uh, I run a meet-up here in berlin, um on london and barcelona And the thing is that we have a slack workspace, uh, but the custom emojis in this slack workspace are a bit boring. So We managed to upload all the pirates, uh through a selenium Script and I'm actually posting the link it in Thing there is a video showing that there Uh, so that's how I managed to because when you have a free space, you cannot upload, uh emojis in a bulk way So that's that's how I did it and Small parentheses if somebody wants to see a page that is easy to automate go to the web client of slack. They have all the Selectors that can be chosen in a very simple way And if the selenium didn't exist, I think I will be probably back to columbia I did the masters in sweden and then I found a job in germany And it was doing api testing which I didn't find amusing when I switched to web driver I actually fell in love with the profession of testing and in the whole industry So basically I'm here because the project is is alive and exists Thank you, Diego Shree Yes, I'll be going next. So, uh, there are two use cases. I've used selenium in an interesting way But I'm pretty sure that most of people have used the same way Basically, I use selenium to log my attendance in the my company current company and also to trigger my e-word emails I into the fun part a few times. I use selenium to book train tickets in india It happens because in india dialy system is a bit busy. So So if not selenium, uh, I'm not sure but uh, uh, I'll be using what jason, I guess Jason Huggins has invented Before selenium off if not selenium Ah That leaves me then the grand irony is I've used selenium to fill out time sheets Um For those of you that don't know selenium was created to uh help test the time sheet software at thoughtworks So it's a nice sort of circular reference. Uh, and I've done it. It's great. Um If I wasn't easy if I wasn't if selenium didn't exist I I would be full out build nerd at this point Like I love build tools and how you construct software and making that really efficient So I would be sort of neck deep in that I am neck deep in it already, but I'd be even deeper in Well, great, uh, well, thank you everyone for sharing that tree. They're already comments coming in that your boss is also in the You spoke of it too loud But no worries you're in the virtual space So But uh, anyway, thank you so much, uh, gentlemen It's been really an honor to be hosting this panel discussion We have actually exceeded our time and we could not even get through half the questions that were there But I want to take this opportunity to thank you again. Thank you to the selenium project to the committee members You guys and the ones who are not in front of us right now on the screen So thank you to everyone on behalf of um, all the users of selenium now and in the future And we look forward to seeing you in the next selenium conference if not before that So thank you all the attendees for participating as well. And with this, uh We conclude yet another version of selenium conference Except the closing note, which we'll all move to now. So thank you again and see you in the closing note Thank you very much folks Thank you