Or the idea is that we can now get a smart suggestion into my thanks to it. It doesn't say anything, or? Not at all. The whole tag is missing. Follow the whole program. Something about the user interface. These are all auto-generated. So the more people tagged the more it will find the structure the more it will be more suggestive. Basically, the same algorithm that I'm using for the whole platform database which is only for the tags. So it's just a dissing. I looked up what Google uses for the technology Google uses for the data mining. And they use MapReduce, and they re-use SX. That's the infrastructure. It's described on Wikipedia. If you look for MapReduce there, it's a network of distributed machines. MapReduce. MapReduce. You actually have to fill in the scripts doing the analysis and stuff into the system. That's the thing somebody suggested to me yesterday. Somebody said to me there's a system Google uses and you. Because I was wondering, I couldn't just remember the name. It was Japan. There's actually a free implementation of that. There's several. It's called an action project. That's even a... What do you call it? No, no. That's a station algorithm? No, no, no. An eclipsing plug-in that helps you create the scripts that you need to run this. Well, that still doesn't run for really a couple of hours of the time. But the use is just a very generalised infrastructure to really use it to run jobs in parallel. It's basically a distributed computational algorithm. Yes, that's... Like the PM and the RS guide? In order to quickly do data mining. They apparently can render or remap or remind their whole dataset in one night or one day also. Of course, they have also some big data centers doing this. Yeah, they have really big data centers. I have smart computers. No use for distributed in one computer. Well, it has two cores. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay, is there anything that somebody really wants to talk about first? Take it, do you want to say something? Sure. I don't know if I want to go first. Yeah, yeah. So, we talked about... So, there was a lot of discussion from them during your session yesterday. Yeah. There were things that people still wanted to talk about. I had a data mining project that I'm working on that I wanted to talk to people about, but I thought maybe since it's a block we should maybe talk about a little bit first. Well, I'm here. It's more than the hardware type stuff. If we could somehow get that going. It came out of the wacky idea session. Just as you know, Ubuntu are doing it. And... I think... Fedora has a project from Fedora. Yeah, Fedora is doing it. So, we should be doing it. Well, we could first talk about what we should align together, what data, or we could talk about the security implications. Because it's not security privacy implications, because I'm a bit afraid of collecting too much information. Yeah, Petra knows a little bit more about that. I don't know what Petra wants to talk about. Petra? You were telling me about the security implications. Yes, there is some information I've collected by DMID code that is a bit risky to spread around. Like... What is DMID code? What is DMID code? It's an old PC BIOS thing that queries the BIOS and gets hardware information strings back. Yeah. It's one of the things HWinfo can call itself. So, you can actually use HWinfo and call that. I can show you the output of it. It includes... It includes information that the company would not want to spread around to everyone. It's not even unique enough that it could be tracked back to a particular machine, maybe? Well, definitely. I mean, with UID, which is... Yeah. I don't think that's enough. Talk about the wacky ideas. We're just talking about collecting PCI IDs. What do you think? Well, let's look... Why don't we do less as more, just collect PCI IDs? I mean, we can publish a lot of that. We can use PCI IDs. We can use BID. BID is that some things might not always be on. So, it's a bit sort of... When we're collecting it, but... By on you mean, plugged in versus loaded and working? I mean, it's connected to the machine or not. Yeah. But just plugged in and knowing they're on the bus is interesting, even if there's not a driver. It's interesting to know that this many people are going down and have this device. You do want to have some information from the DMID code like the vendor and model of your hardware. So, HP, Proliant, for example, would be present in the DMID code information. It's a laptop or a standalone machine. If it supports the IPMI or not, if it's... Well, what kind of CPUs it got, how much memory it got, that kind of information is present in the DMID tables. So, that's why we collect DMID code at least at the University from all the machines because it's filled with useful information. But some of that useful information is not something you spread around because serial numbers and stuff like that you don't want to spread it too far. We could choose to only grab some identified DMID types and say we grab types about CPU but we retrieve... Since it's standardized, we can't say type CPU we just remove the serial number. Well, architecture is already... Not like it's Pentium or an iPhone or anything, but the architecture already got that. Yeah. What about architecture like Pogcom? Yeah. Well, if it's ARM, if it's IA64... I was wondering about that day that we could get from proxy to info as well. But I think what's more interesting about the DMID code is the fact that it actually lists who the vendor was that shipped it. So, like, most PCs will show up and say, oh yes, it's an Intel processor or whatever, but you won't know who made the motherboard or other information about that. But there's a way to collect that too, right? Not that I really would like to want that. I mean, I'm thinking memory... The main board supplies maybe a bit too much. Actually, or even that would be interesting because if someone approaches the main board manufacturer, it's much easier to talk to the main board manufacturer saying, hey, we are deviant, and we have about 50,000 machines running your... running deviant on your motherboard that sucks. And how could you improve your motherboard with, I don't know, for us? That's not really a problem. There's an implementation of the deviant packet available from Ubuntu with a server we can set up and just install and let the users ship us information. So, all we need is someone to do it. So, just like popcorn, we was often... Yeah. We were installing a one-time job... And sending the server there. To receive it. Oh, yeah, okay. So, an option to... not to popcorn, but to HWInfo or whatever. And saying... deep privatize... Yes, scrub. Scrub. Scrub. Scrub any unique information from DMI decoders. Yeah. Is that correct? That'd be the default. No, I'm just saying... But he's saying implement that. Yeah, we've been... That's pretty valuable. Of course, it's problematic to know that all kinds of machines have... what kind of privacy information they have there because it's not very standardized. So, it's pretty obvious. It's a serial number you can take away. Yeah, well, it's top of the list. Well, yeah, okay. Just be aware that it's complex problems so you might miss something. Yeah, but we at least tried. Yeah. I'm not sure if that's a good idea. This point is you started and you take a prosperity for it and you maintain it in the future and you start it. Yeah. Sure. But my point is that if you try and fail, it might look worse than if you just announce that we are not trying to provide your... to protect your privacy, do you still want to submit? Because then there is no expectation that we will actually try. If I say we try to protect your privacy? Yeah, and fail, then people will have reason to be really angry, but if we start by saying we do not try to protect your privacy, do you still want to participate? They do not have any expectation that we will try to protect your privacy and if they still participate? What we want to, why should we say not to participate? Because we might get more pissed of people if we fail that way than if we don't try and, well, then we can fail. If you come from the other way and just include information, do you know what to say rather than extra information? Sure, that's possible. That's probably easier because then we know what we actually are collecting. The problem is that you can never enlarge the data set. I mean, when you decide what you collect, it's really good to add one extra thing. We have that in popularized context. In popcorn, that's exactly the problem. If you wanted to mine something else, you needed to have, you know, like that tough question to all the users saying, oh, by the way, can I also take note of this and then people would say, how people would be upset? We could, like, define a minimized additional hardware set or information, set of information and default information and let the user decide, like, everything, just a minimized set or, like, nothing about that. Yeah, the question is how useful it is to do it because what you collect is the data you need and can you make use of split-down versions of data? Because I believe in statistics, every time you give the user a chance of influencing the data you've got that introduces bias on your data set. I suspect it's easier with the Ubuntu way where you have a menu entry, submit your information about your hardware to the developers and it just tells you that it will submit a lot of information saying, blah, blah, blah. Are you okay with this? Yes, and there it goes. The Ubuntu way is very good because Ubuntu has it. So we want to be more assholes than that. Not meaning that. We kind of have the way paved by other people doing it so you don't have to do the whole show that you are responsible. Is it good or evil? Which is the question every time you start a beta production? HWDB.ubuntu.com That's the... You say that slower again? HWDB hardwaredatabase.ubuntu.com But is that really... would that be helpful? Because I know that they have a totally different channel than we do. Would that be helpful? They have a very different channel than we do and knowing... they provide the other PCI output, the LSU-SB output, the DMI decode output. A lot of information that describes the hardware. The kernel is something else. They also collect information if the cell card is working, your hex is working. That's a minor thing. One question is, do you want to correlate it with the packages? Share the same hash? Yeah, a lot of call. I don't think so. That would be very helpful. Because then you could map specific hardware to specific packages. This guy's got a server.  This guy's got a test. He's a package set Y. So you can give suggestions saying that stuff from your hardware, really. So I see... you know, on Intel video card, that makes... oh, on Intel video card, this, this and this packages. He's told me they're all wrong and you should get rid of it because the driver breaks if you use them. But that's a different question. I see that it's very useful to collect that kind of information and I'm also pretty sure I would not participate if we collected it. Right. If you don't connect it, it's not pretty useful. We can do statistics about what we have, but we can't do data mining. Well, trust me, it would be very useful because I would be able to detect high IDs that are not currently detected by the kernel modules and figure out what the kernel module is supposed to support it. I would also be able to check what kind of models are currently used by Debian and, for example, approach HP or IPM and say we have like 200,000 users of your ProLiant server. Can you make sure that your drivers work properly? That kind of information would be very useful even if you don't coordinate it with the package list. I might want to give you what I'm doing. What would you be ready to give what kind of would you be ready to give your PCIID, the list of your PCIIDs? Yes. Would you have problem giving your USB IDs? No. Would you have problem giving within DMRID code specifically? Not me personally, but as an enterprise that you know, as the university was. Because any enterprise wouldn't like to disclose the kind of hardware they have because that tells who they source it from. That's a problem as long as it's anonymous if you can track them down, but if you actually provide the serial number of the machine anyone can contact the vendor and ask for support for that serial number. I'm really bad at it here, but if I'm the internet provider of a big university I'm also probably a big enterprise running hardware and if the mail is running in the mail which is likely then I kind of see what kind of hardware the university uses and go back with offers and stuff. You have a new software. That's not a problem. What else? Even if we stripped out serial numbers and that sort of thing you still might be able to infer who a particular user is if they have enough machines of a certain type or whatever like Google happened to be running Debian and they turned this on all of a sudden and we saw that there were more machines of this one type than anything else. You might go figure out that's Google or something you don't even need so, but so it might be best to defer to the user to decide whether or not the information is sensitive to them and would be nice if, for all the different categories that we had that we were collecting things, somewhere in the com file we had, or ideally with Debian we just had a little checkbox that said do you want to send information from proxy view info? Do you want to send ECO? No, that's not too much. Honestly, when I'm installing a machine I can't be asked to go and look up all these things that do. Maybe it's not Debian but we put it somewhere and you make the default send the things that we think are reasonable, but people have the ability, you know, maybe we give them a reading that says, by the way review this and determine if you are uncomfortable sending any of this stuff even in an anonymous form and turn it off. In my understanding this thing you get the data that you have pre-selected in the defaults and that's the only statistically significant one because it will be very few people that bother actually changing defaults so you will get very few submissions that kind of change that. So what are you advocating? Just sending everything? If there can be a same default that doesn't bother people, we can do that and otherwise it's probably our best work. For example, if Peter could put together a list of things that he would be comfortable carrying we are looking at side-by-side. So we define Peter as the most paranoid person? No, but I think you're the the other popular guy. But I think we've already agreed that most of us would be uncomfortable sending the DMI decode data well maybe not most of us but at least some of us would be. But we also agreed that's one of the most useful things because it gives us data about specific hardware uses and that would allow us as Debian to go to those hardware vendors and be able to say there's 10,000 machines running Debian and you need to do your orders. Because we don't really need to but we don't need to provide the whole DMI decode to have the most meaningful information the most meaningful information are probably four or five bytes out of the hundreds one. Yeah, yeah. And it may be not the most sensitive one. Just the scenario about we going approaching a vendor saying we have 10,000 machines running to prove your drive, is that real or realistic? Yeah. And I work for a vendor and I will go to my manager and say look there's 10,000 people who run this machine, this is what we need to do. Okay. But from my point of view and I'm like the hard protection kind of guy I would like to have at least one report from every kind of hardware because that would make it a lot easier for me because then I could actually change the PCI IDs. So the statistics of it doesn't really matter that much to me. I see it's very useful when talking to vendors but at the moment it's more like do this kind of hardware exist at all? Or is it just an entry in the PCI at least? And I suspect that if someone just went ahead and implemented or uploaded the hardware database packet from Ubuntu and that's a menu entry that the user has to manually select and submit once information about this hardware so it's not a regular update and it doesn't make sense to do a regular update because hardware doesn't change every week. That will help me a lot with the discover work and the hardware protection stuff. So how about shifting the collection phase to something like contribute to that end of the menu that can send people to the list of orphaned packets that they have installed, DevTags, Pages to categorize what they have installed a tool that sends hardware information. Do a kind of continue to devian package that among the various options have send a whole lot of things on the SSH HDTS connection to it so the man doesn't see it at least the trust devian. If you don't trust the recommend provider it's a way a bit better that could probably be a better channel to harvest the help out of things and also coordinate with popcorn ashes which you can read from the popcorn log. We could also promise what other log providers don't want to participate in. Lots of people put their configurations online so they've got record of what they set up so they know how to reset it up and then install or tell other people who have got them all the same notebook with the same hardware configuration. A lot of people put those pages and you can make an auto page generator. If you turn into something like that rather than a system where people are just being random where people can say I can look up this hardware and see how it's available. It could be a workspace for your mind but you can have flashy graphics or your friends linking there saying what a great computer you have. So you joke but I worked on the PRS Linux port and there's a hwdb.piras-linux.org and people did a similar thing and HWN put it in existence at the time but there was a tool that HP had that ran under HPX and early on in the port people also had HPX on machine and she ran that and then I put it all sorts of information about the hardware and then you uploaded this thing to the website and parsed it and put it all in there between the gospel register yourself and so after that page you can find you can search by model or by those things and once you get the model of that page it lists all your friends that have that machine and so there are other people you can talk to and say hey can you try this? I definitely like the idea of making this fun. I also like the idea that if it's for hardware a big level is if your hardware is not where you were supposed to be then you click this and port your thing so you actually report and having a problem with this hardware setup which could be actually a motivational thing that would fit into the president and it's motivational and then if we collect lots of problems with one specific bit of hardware we can go and change people and say it's a three way system you have this aspect and it becomes I want to buy a thing by T60 and does it work well and which model should I choose that's more difficult because that means reporting with also this work it doesn't this work it doesn't so I have a problem with my SD card reader and I would say send a problematic hardware report from my entire laptop while the video card is perfect because what you would think is just more pros and cons that you can track it it's just some kind of work and it plays a sound that you press ok or not and does your video card work or press ok or not that kind of information provides it for installation reports doesn't work and there's probably a lot of information we could actually pull through because people do the USB and the USB and the installation reports actually includes the MIT card I think because I'm pretty sure I wrote that part of it yes it could be two way we have the status so we have problems with it modify a wiki page identified by the hardware setup if somebody makes one pulls it up they get the wiki page well that's just the possibility which I'm just coming up with I know it's just about data mining and hardware related things because I think that if you are data mining from time to time you can also be proactive regarding problems with specific hardware for example I have a TV card in my computer and it stops working with the OTV for example and in fact I think in popcorn you will see that I begin to use less TV as I was using it a lot with my card and I begin to use a TV or something I don't remember the other xAWTV xAWTV yes another tool I don't remember the name that's something under KDU it can be proactive regarding that because no one reports about it but they begin to stop using my package all the people that have I don't know I'm doing a USB 2 deodorant and it can be something interesting useful for package maintainers to be able to see that these relationships exist that people who have this hardware don't use my package stop using or uninstall it and don't use it I don't have the hardware but I discover that actually before we said we don't want to have the same idea with the hardware and the packages well for my point of view I want to have it because that's what you can see yeah what I was interested I was going back to what exactly during the work here we were discussing about this I'm quite interested in getting people having better support for the laptop hardware because today many people hopefully start on my marketing platform and so right now on the Wiki on the page I'm trying to set up something so to help people write reports and one of the key things I'm confident in doing on the Wiki is capable insert your lspci in the page insert the lspci and then have some important invite you run the bug script for discover data it provides all the useful information about your hardware should we just decide on a name so we can just coordinate the stuff future on the Wiki should we just call it hwdb I suggest we just copy the packet I don't see the point of re-implementing that thing I'm not suggesting just for future coordination just to put out ideas that we've been talking about there and did we decide did we decide if we can have this information public or not probably be like popcorn most of it will be private but results are processing it will be public so popcorn is not public aggregated data yeah the aggregated data you can imagine how many installed something or used something but that's all I was just thinking if you syndicated it to somebody else because it is a bit of a task to do everything and we just probably did that anyway so yeah, at Wiki.wdo hwdb everyone's happy with that is this really a QA size or is this something different you can just discuss on the QA list I don't know if it works I think it is more or less everything I would say support he would say data mining and some other things oh yeah it's not much traffic there maybe it's not important that sounds like a sensible idea yeah so popcorn I should also mention that Fedora guys started an effort to make a hardware database for Linux and they were very enthusiastic a few weeks and then it stopped they also called it hwdb so the idea has been discussed quite a lot and as far as I know Ubuntu and SUSE is the only one like that we have a roof that's one we have a roof that's one maybe well and if we use similar software then we'd be able to aggregate databases too and then the Linux community as a whole could say hey hardware vendor there are this many and all together there are this many Linux machines so it would be good to work in such a way to make sure it's as well where's the popcorn menu possible it's called popcorn developers perhaps it's on the line popcorn developers why are we up here I guess many people don't know how popcorn does data collection and when we went discussing it we came up with ideas of involving it and explaining it to a wider public in case you can go and find out better collection ideas because popcorn is accurate for some packages but only for some do you want to explain it should I go on well I can for sure it's not accurate for any packet but it's very accurate for a few of them I don't know how many programmers are here but I assume all of you are so it's like a new boot that has GNOME and KDE but that's what KDE is popcorn scripts it's going to do more it's going to read a bit so maybe try for a few more times so the collection code this is the loop looping over all the packages and for each packet it loops over all the files and if the file matches this regular expression it's taken into account it doesn't, it's not taken into account someone can see good job since I someone else can't see it's that behind it's appropriate and it's more likely and what I mean just in a few days is this regular expression the point is that proprietary content collects if a packet is installed if it was used the last week and the usage part is the tricky part if it was used recently, like I think that's the last month and if it was unused, if all the access states are the same as the installation if all the packages have the same access states that's assumed to be the installation date I think and there is quite a lot of packages that do not have any files that matches this regular expression then that's the no file packages in the statistics comparing the A-time and hitting the file that was most recently used in the packet that matches this regular expression and report that alongside the information about the packet and the problem is of course that access time is inaccurate for a few packages all five all libraries in Lib will be accessed every night when they come down to update the library well, at least that's our cache is updated a few other things are like manual pages every night when the manual pages are updated so all these files are no use to actually check if they have been used or not because we know they have been used and it doesn't mean anything also a few packages changes from having no binaries to getting one binary in some release of that end and then you will have some packages showing up with access times and some machines showing up with access times for that packet and some showing up with no files and then you will get a really interesting result for that packet and you have the boot system.map file which is only accessed by the system in boots so that is not really usage of the current packet it's how recently was the machine boot and it's kind of usage of the current packages so current packages can be compared to each other on the relative frequency of boots and the user packages because that boot is actually usage is possibly improvement is it worth patching LD so cache to restore the ATIME just like the DB does probably without a switch so you are only activated an open mic but the access time is only updated on the machines where the access time is integrated with the file system and for laptops it's quite common to mount file systems with no ATIME option to avoid touching the ATIME every time you touch a file to avoid touching the disk every time you access a file and for those there is what you can use the ATIME to detect loads of course there have been proposals to enable accounting and we could then log all process use in one load and then process the accounting information and use that information to report usage or not but then we are getting pretty far off if you enable that in my laptop I can go myself fire on you that's one problem it will burn power but you power on laptops and that kind of defeats the purpose of the no ATIME I think you can mine the library just like you might have everything else we did check mine for non-point if it's not with no ATIME or with ATIME to do another tech at the moment we just conclude that they don't get votes they still call it installations it would be like a really small improvement and we also have the problem that some installations have broken deep hacking database for example there must be something like that because the number of installed proper articles packages is smaller than the number of submissions right not by a user month it's like a fraction of a percent but still there are some machines reporting proper articles that didn't have proper articles installed and that's not possible there's also some machines that report the architecture and the number is higher than it should be when I compare it to the number of installations with an old enough problematic of the target that the architecture was not reported at all so there are some machines where the impact command we use to extract the architecture is actually not recording anything useful that aren't level or something I don't think so I've seen the same in Ubuntu and Ubuntu only have had proper articles that report the architecture they still have like 200 unknown machines machines with unknown architecture we also want to do something looking at the pens perhaps to figure out which like is it being used by recently used packages it should be and it's going to be very complex it's a matter of length I'm going to show you what you said just looking at packaged pens to try and look at which packages are being accessed recently to figure out libraries oh yeah if a library is installed and nobody depends on it just remove it I don't know if you actually read something but until a few weeks ago I already saw some suggestions with the time of like 2036 or something in the future I think it was a really old solution without even an architecture so it was some screwed up system that's what 36 stops like all bits to one something like that I know that a lot of power please sees the old ones when they're dealing with the end era they look out with time of 1900 so I think that is filtered up now but when I started doing all the stuff with the Epochon data I had a lot of solutions with a time of 900 I don't think we actually filter that data with this storage but we remove it up to 30 days yeah that's as you can see there is quite a lot of strange architectures and a few of them is really I don't know what that is it's unavoidable okay it's a 486 architecture you have two machines reporting with the 486 architecture and as far as I know we don't have that probably somebody built the whole thing from scratch yeah maybe I'm for it are there any opportunities architectures there? no we have only three besties and as you can see the number of unknowns is 231 that's architectures unknown and version number is 310 and we didn't introduce the architecture before the version number of a red dot test but still this number of unknowns it kept going down it increases over here that would mean that someone actually installed a large number of real installations I don't think so you could be surprised there could be a big data center but it's still around the building and it would be at that point and it would be in this year that was this year that would be around the release of Edge certainly that's actually installations with something broken suppose that Google has the production environment in Google and they don't want to lead test therefore amazing lot of stuff they run on I don't think there's a problem maybe they have more than 200 machines it was so much more than that Google just you know the reason I don't believe it is that these numbers actually show 38 unknown architectures so that's the boon to it and they have never released the packets of public articles that didn't connect to our center one of the things that you'll need to look out for especially if you're trying to start selling these data to vendors in the future is carrying the stock data poisoning they're going to stop vendor X injecting a whole bunch of Lotus reports saying that their package or their hardware is the best hardware to run it artificially inflating their market share simply how do you stop the mantu or red hat poisoning our database and saying well there beyond the results of rubbish of course you can poison the problematic on this tiny moment there's no track to it's a point to be basically so no one's done that yet it's possible that somebody even does it there's no way to find out you can even submit a huge number of packages are your own name or whatever I was going to think about what people are using in their virtualization you could just make primitive machines and put a potion in the script and you could inject what's the span let's get on the next yeah so so much span just people who generally have a with Merchant was there there could be just a lot of machines generally that might skew things I mean for example this jump was Swedish close-proven MDO teams I did a stop to report and then we came back then we turned off but I do know the guy actually was in that cluster that was a Swedish AMD cluster and we asked if it was okay for us that he actually reported one entry for each machine in the cluster because they are identical and we said if they are three machines well if they are real machines go ahead even virtual machines are real machines in that sense if they are actually doing something go ahead the same interesting point you were raising how did you do you have input but do you have any clues what percentage is actual virtual machine or physical machine I haven't looked for that we could try and see for seven minutes you can guess by installation of the kernels if they are using our kernels then we have our official kernel image the new image 2.6.18 minus xanthic getting around the poisoning problem what about asking people to register I would rather stay the way this until we know it's a problem if we ever get to this that's cool I think I better just cancel everything if it's not poisoning it because the whole progress is gone it's a way to feed back to the we haven't seen anything to improve the distribution and that's the way you've provided and at that time we would have actually be able to try the same information I mean we could really map one person I was thinking looking at that peak about the transfer when you start giving suggestions based on popcorn basically the guy that turns on 500 machines and popcorn can be able to start suggesting everyone to install the same package that they have which luckily there's many customers but the amount of identical machines I have is a good push on a successful package not a big deal I think it will be watered down quite a bit by the whole merging with all other things so it's not much of a problem it's really the relative weight system in this package it's twice as much as this package that you think but you might use it basically not so much as 2,000 this one has 1,000 users for that it's really relative to the package and using that for me it doesn't matter because the more typical user will have the identical configuration as cluster so the amount actually has happened interesting things to read from that for example the working graph is that there are personally three times as many users of stable than unstable or unstable and testing we don't have that's actually the stable install that's actually installation and this is unstable and testing and you also see the long tail it takes quite a long time before everyone upgrades these there are five really installations how long is that long tail? well it's it's very rarely it goes from to zero if you have the energy I would say it takes well you can just measure it like this now so I would say this is really this is large this is large so there is 1,900 of 53 or 54,000 spreading really so you can change the format of the report so that you can generate the same graph for each package we are not going to do it because it's done by DQA people but the graph is that because we are running in the background of the library to collect version number no we don't want that we consider that too much oh because you can track you can track files well we can track users if we know what version the machine has we can track it over time at the moment if we would be evil we have the IP we have packages the user has installed we have the approximate last update he did we have the unstable because we have the last five minutes we don't have the unguess we could block it if we would be evil and then we could run an attack and if we would have version information about each package it would be even worse but actually how can it presumably imply version information from version of pop-up it's interesting to I even get an email from the library is there another talk on that? a meeting distribution of architectures how that changes over time it's quite interesting to see that ARU for example is the fastest growing architecture at the moment not very surprising ARU might not be 64 and this is for the growing that fast the reason that ARU is growing is because it only embedded the buses it sprouts the slots yeah have you got a slide? have you got a slide? yep look at my I have one it is indeed very cool and fun architecture as known by the DTKG so it shows my name which is 10 with 2 cards 8 with 2 what's below ARU? ARU ARU this is a logarithmic graph so it is like 0, 1, 2 do I see the ARU? because if I so if I some ARU member actually doesn't become 3 times RPB has 9 and ARMEA has 6 so what's people sorry I thought they were all the colors become quite similar the one below ARM is RPC can you increase the not for an image that's an image that was an image so that's a sort of list of architectures that could be a curious book I thought I can do that at the moment so the first one is 286, 85% ND64, 11.2% ARM, 1.4% RPC, 1.2% SPAR, 1.5% ALPHA, 1.1% NIPSER, 1.1% HPPA, 1.1% 0.1% sorry I'm really wrong so these are above 1% RPC, ARM, ND64 and the rest is below 1% M68K M68K where is it? 0.02% and it's been pretty stable there for the last 12 years I think it's the same people the number actually increased from like 2 to 9 but 0.02% approximately all the time it's a long time the first time is up so I think we should there are some changes that could be planned that I have in mind also one is to patch and desolation the other is to add packages to provide a file with a revolt file that one could look for like more applications could tell you something and third change is the server side that queue in which you would tell me new files that had a new file that exit the dataset which then I think one could use to keep parallel indexes and other mining things out today that's what I have and also far out improvements on this structure and also what we can manage I'm very sorry to interrupt we are just about to have a meeting in this room we just got a red card so I'm on


Okay, so let's do one more of these gas law problems. This one, hopefully, you can tell is a Gay-Lusach problem. It reads, a steel container of nitrous oxide at 15.08 Tm is cooled from 25 degrees Celsius to negative 40 degrees Celsius. What is the final pressure of the system at constant volume? So, can anyone tell if this is going to be a problem where things are changing or things are staying the same? They're changing. They're changing, right? Okay, so when we do that, what do we do? We say PV equals nRT of ones below everything but the R's divided by PV equals nRT, putting two's below, okay? So what two things, two variables are changing, right? Pressure and temperature, right, does everybody see that? So pressure, we don't cancel out, right, because they're different values. Volume's the same, it even says constant volume, so that's going to cancel. Number of moles didn't change, cancel that out, and R, that's the gas constant, it changes, okay? So our new equation is P1 divided by P2 equals T1 divided by T2, okay? So we need to solve for P2, right? So P2 is here, let's isolate that variable, okay? So the first thing we're going to do is do what? Flip both sides, okay? So when we do that, we say P2 divided by P1 equals T2 divided by T1. Is everybody okay with what we've done so far? Okay, so remember we're trying to isolate P2, so what do we need to do next? Multiply. Multiply by what? P1. P1, right? So if we multiply by P1, what happens here? Cancel. Cancel, cancel, and multiply here by P1, like that, okay? So let's just write the final equation up here. So P2 equals T2 times P1 divided by T1, like that. So again, if you're having trouble with your algebra, you're going to have trouble with these problems, okay? So make sure you attempt a number of these problems before you come for the axioms, okay? So I'm going to erase this stuff down here, and then we'll just plug and chug. Well, I guess we have to do one more thing before we start plugging in numbers. What are we going to have to do? Convert Celsius to Kelvin. Convert Celsius to Kelvin because we have to have our temperature in Kelvin units. So how do we do that? Add 273. So what do we get? 298 Kelvin there. Add 273 there. And we get 233 Kelvin. Okay. So now it's plug and chug. So P2 equals T2, which is 233 Kelvin. Times T1, 15.0, 18. Divide it by T1, which is 298 Kelvin, like that. So hopefully you guys see that Kelvin's are going to be canceled out, leaving us with units of 18, right? Pressure units of 18 are good units, so we've probably done the right thing. Let's do this together. So 233 times 15, and then divide that by 298. And this is going to be, of course, three significant digits. So I get 11.718. So that's going to be the pressure of your nitrous oxide. Okay. Are there any questions on this one? Wonderful.


Hi everyone, in this tutorial, we're going to talk about that how to replace all occurrences of a string in JavaScript by using regular expressions. In order to do that, I'm going to create a variable, let's call it name, this variable will contain some text, for example, my name is John. And now let's say that we want to change something or replace something into this text with some other text. For example, I'm going to change this letter N with some other letter, but you could also change or replace every occurrence of some word or some text inside this string by using regular expressions. First, I'm going to use this variable name, and I'm going to use replace method. And inside this replace method, I'm going to use regular expression. So I want to change every occurrence of this letter N with some other letter. I want to replace all these letters with a new letter. So I want to check for this combination throughout the all string. So I'm going to use G flag, G flag stands for global. So this regular expression is going to search inside this string for all occurrences of letter N. And then I'm going to say that we want to replace that, for example, with three letters A. Okay, now I'm going to press enter. And as you can see, every letter N inside this string is replaced by three As by using regular expressions. That's all in this tutorial. Don't forget to subscribe to my channel. See you in the next tutorial.


Today, we're going to be looking at numbering stuff with your shell scripts, whether it be files or just generating a list of some sort. And of course, you could have issues with organizing them by sorting them by order. Let me show you what I mean. So I'm working in bash here, I'm going to say 4i in. And if I do, I can say zero dot dot 100, and I'll say do echo dollar sign I done and it lists out all the numbers. Actually, it's more than overkill for that particular command. But let's look at it a little bit more. Let's say I wanted to name a file, I'll call it image, let's do all our case, image underscore dot jpeg. So let's say we wanted to create a list or these files of jpegs. And you can see it generates them nicely in order. We got zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, all the way through to 100. But what happens if we try to sort that, have the computer sort it and we wanted them to be in order? Like let's say you have all these files and you want to make a video out of them, you got to keep them in order. Well, a lot of programs, if it was trying to put them in order, like piping this into the sort command, you can see that they get a little out of order because it goes image nine is next to 90, eight is next to 80. If we go all the way up to the top here, you can see zero, one, ten and a hundred are next to each other. And then we jump to 11 and go through to two. So that's not really good to have the files labeled like that. What you want is a leading zero, something like this. Let me clear the screen. We're going to say echo. We want the file names to look like this, image 001 dot jpeg. You know, or depending on how many you're going to have, if you're going to have more than a thousand, you might want it to be four digits or five digits. So you would start at zero, zero, zero, zero, one, so forth and so on. So how do you generate that with a script? Well, instead of using the echo command, we're going to use the print command or print F command, I should say print F. And then we're going to say, OK, here we can say image underscore. And instead of typing out the number here, what we're going to do is we're going to say percent sign zero dot two. D dot jpeg or whatever your extension is, that should be a dot. And if I hit enter here, and we're going to want to put a new line character. If we don't put a new line character, you can see it ends up on the same line there. So we're going to put a new line character. And as you can see, we get image 00 dot jpeg. And if we wanted to be three zeros or three digits, I should say, we can change that to a three. And if you're going to go over a thousand, but other 10,000 with your numbering, you might want four. OK, so that gives us our zeros. How do we input our number? Well, we put it after our quotations. So we got print, print this out. And basically we're saying right here, think of this as like a variable saying it's going to be a four digit number. And if you don't tell what number, it's going to put zero. But outside the parentheses, if I say one, we now get zero, zero, zero, one. And again, if you want it only three digits, you can say we want it to be a three digit number. Or if you want it to be a five digit number, five digit number. And it's whatever number you put out here, I can go two, I can go three, I can go eight. If I go 10, you can see it's still only five digits, which is exactly what we want. So let's put that into a loop and check it by sorting it just like we did earlier with the echo command. Control L to clear the screen there. So again, I'm going to say four i in so we're creating a variable. And that variable is going to loop through from zero to we'll say 1000. Well, we'll start off with 100. And we're going to say do print f, which is similar to the echo command, but has some different functionality. We're going to say image and we're going to say percent zero dot two d for a two digit. But really we're going up to 100. So we want it to be three digits. And we'll say dot jpeg. And if we were to give it a new line character and say done now, it's just going to say image zero, zero, zero dot jpeg for all of them. So what we need to do clear the screen again is again outside our quotations here, put our number. But in this case, our number is our variable dollar sign i. I'll hit enter now and you can see we get zero through 100. Great. Same as we did with the echo, but now let's try to sort it by piping it into sort and we get the same output. The numbers are in order as they should be. Now, if we do give it a bigger number than a three digit number, so let's say we went to 1000 or even 2000. We do have an issue there sorting. Let's take the sort command away. So even if you put a bigger number than the digits you tell it, that's great. It will it won't crash or anything like that, but we have some four digit numbers and some three digit numbers. So be sure to set this variable to the maximum number of digits in the number that you're going to input. So if you're going to be doing anything in the thousands, you're going to want to be four digits because 1000 to 9999 is four digits. I set this back to 1000 for now. We'll hit enter and you can see, well, I'll do it again with 2000 and we will sort that and now they are sorted properly. So that's the key right there is to put the correct number of digits that you want. So that's it. That's it. That's numbering files. We're creating a number list with leading zeros. So let's sort that and less it and you can see that we have 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1. And if we were to keep going down the list, we have our leading zeros, then we hit 1000 right about there. Great. You know, that's exactly what we need. I hope you found this tutorial useful. Again, I think my patrons over at Patreon.com forward slash Melix 1000 for sponsoring this video and choosing bash videos for this month's topic and the shell script tutorials. I hope you find them useful. If you do, please visit filmsbychrist.com. Think about supporting me over at Patreon.com forward slash Melix 1000 and as always, I hope that you have a great day. I would like to take a moment to thank the following patrons who made this video possible by supporting me over at Patreon.com forward slash Melix 1000. Bash. No, I know you're not. I'm not bashing you. Obviously, I use bash more than I probably use see. Right. So, you know. But my point though is, is that you are, what are you saying? Right. If you enjoy my tutorials and would like to see more, please think about contributing to my Patreon account at patreon.com forward slash Melix 1000.


He's joining us to this SIP Snack and Chat with the board. We'll just let everybody join our session and then we'll kick things off. I hope you're all having a wonderful Wikimedia day, weekend, wherever you are in the world. So we'll just give another minute or two to let people in. Brilliant, we'll welcome everyone to this SIP Snack and Chat session with the board here at Wikimedia 2022. I hope you've all been having a wonderful weekend and enjoying the session so far. I want to thank you for joining us today here. Part of one of the themes of Wikimedia this year is to welcome newcomers. So we want to make this session about that as well, making it a place where newcomers to the movement, to Wikipedia, to Wikimedia can find out more about what the Board of Trustees do, what the Foundation does and their role within the movement. So we're going to start with a bit of an icebreaker chat and hopefully today's session will be informal and a bit of fun. We have some questions that may be beforehand and we may not get a chance to get to all of them. So if not, we'll be putting them on our Medi-Page so we can have a look and we'll also be having a look on the ether pads. So feel free to add anything you want to there as well. So I'm not going to hand it over to Nat. She's the chair of the board just to start things off and do some introductions over to you, Nat. Thank you. Hello, everyone. So my name is Natalia and I am a chair of the Board of the Wikimedia Foundation. I have been on the board since 2016 and I come from Ukraine. Currently I'm at a refugee in Israel and I favorite snack are the things that you can easily eat and I don't know watching TV or something would be condensed milk, but it's not very local. So I guess my choice for this would be syrnicum which really goes well with condensed milk and a cup of water. Unfortunately there is not a English Wikipedia article so it is Spanish. And Lorenzo. Hello, I'm Lorenzo from Italy. I have been in the Wikimedia community for a long time, over 15 years, but I've been on the board just for one year now. And I live in Italy and I'm now in Ezinoladiot, a place which hosted Wikimedia six years ago into 2016. My favorite drink of snack is difficult to pick one because there are many things I like, but for that today I will show the Wikimedia, Wikimedia biscuits that were made six years ago and they made a new edition for the anniversary of the year. Thank you. Who wants to connect? Rosie? Hi everyone, I'm Rosie Stevenson, good night. I live in California, but today I'm coming to you from a hotel in Brooklyn, New York City where I'm drinking my favorite drink, coffee. As for a favorite snack, it's got to be chocolate with nuts. I don't have any here with me, but that's what I like best. I've been on the board for almost a year now and I've been a Wikimedia for just over 15 years. Over to you, Victoria. Hello, my name is Victoria. I am originally from Belarus, which is between Ukraine and Lithuania, but now I live in the UK. I've been in the world for 15 years as well and I was elected in 2021 alongside with Lorenzo and Rosie. My favorite drink is Kifir. This is the Polish version, which I buy in the shop in the UK called Lankan. And my favorite snack is chocolate as well. Thank you. Lots of chocolate fans. Shani? Yeah, it's a good company of people who are liking chocolate. Hi, everyone. My name is Shani Evgenstein-Sigalov. I'm also in Israel and I've been on the board for three years now. I like Rosie. I'm with my coffee and some owls. And I would say my favorite snack is salted caramel, which is similar to the condensed milk, but better, much better. Lovely, we've got some sweet tooth here. Daria's? Daria Shimelnik, I'm originally from Poland. Currently, I'm in Moros in Spain. Apologies, my connection drops so fast. I'm connected to my mobile. My favorite snack since we came in here in Mexico is Mexican food. I love everything spicy, but I also drink Kifir every day, so we're great minds think alike. Fantastic. Ezra? Hey, everyone. My name is Ezra. I'm from Bahrain. Been on the board for five years since 2017, shortly after Wikimania Montreal. And my favorite snack is marmol. And these are semolina flour cookies filled with date paste in the center. And you can add nuts. Usually people add pistachio or walnuts are popular options. And you typically enjoy any sweets with very strong Arabic coffee, as you call it. All signs delicious. I think that's all the board members we have. I hope that's making you all hungry, thirsty, nice to get to know what people enjoy just to keep going. Let us know in the chat where you're from, what your favorite snack from your local culture or just what your favorite snack and drink are. And in the meantime, while you're doing that, we're going to play you a short video just showcasing a bit about who the board are and what they do. When I see this formal question, what is the ontological meaning of board? And how does it fit with the existential meaning of life? But how does it work? The main role of the board is to guide the organization. Directs the foundation, hires the CEO. Figure out people issues, to make sure the foundation stays on the foundation. To hold its management accountable. The financials that support it are sound and are sustainable. Board is not the management of the foundation. The typical approach is, our noses are in, our fingers are out. As the CEO, I work very clearly with the board of trustees that helps us ensure that we fulfill the mission and the mission of Wikimedia. I was asked by the community to represent it on the board. I always say yes when people ask me to do something. To me, it's the highest way of serving a community in an organization that I align with so much. Learning from professionals, to professionals in the world. Say it again, with the same energy. It was inspiring, but slower. Everyone that I've met, all the relationships I've built, community with many different aspects and facets. The people that I get the opportunity to work alongside with, literally in every corner of the world. I wanted to be a part of the board because I felt it is important to bring in human rights expertise and the challenges that come with making knowledge accessible in countries where censorship is the norm. Oh, look at that! We have the good guys and the good gals. Wikimedia today, it really is part of the infrastructure of the world. We need talent. We need people who spread ideas. We need community members from underrepresented populations. So if there are people who are willing to put forth their talent, then they are welcome. Thank you for that. And if anybody wants to speak again, I've just put a link in the chat. So now I'm going to hand it back to Nat. Bo is busy, so she's going to recap a bit of what they've been up to over the past year for you. Thank you. So as you've seen from the video, the board is actually responsible for the bigger strategic staff and also for some bigger issues, kind of like a framework. Not really some management day-to-day operational things, which are usually the things that our community members are also interested in. So out of the things that we did this year, our crowning achievement was improving the annual plan of Wikimedia Foundation for this fiscal year. And you can look at it in the chat, I think that somebody is going to drop a line to the meta page. And I would say that that would be the biggest achievement this year. We are going to, and also if it was the first time I met in person after like two years meeting each other online or not meeting at all this March in New York, which was like kickoff or other in-person events happening in the mood as well. And then we're going to have our next board meeting for the PBS Summit, which happens in the room this year, in September. And we are going to talk about universal code conduct, specialty language changes that were requested by the community members. I would say that that would be the biggest response. Thank you, Nat.  Yeah, I forgot to introduce him. So Wikimedia movement is not only about fighting wars and editing and serious endeavour strength to stay very neutral in very, I would say, challenging times. It's also about cuteness. So this is Konkunchik, the representative from the Canadian Fitness Association, and he's travelling with me since 2015, Wikimedia in Mexico, as Dario has brought up a topic about spicy food. Konkunchik was my travel companion since that Wikimedia ever after. And yeah, so he's also trying to cutify the movement just as well as his brothers and sisters. Amazing. Thank you for introducing us. So we're going to move on now just to some questions and answers. We've had some that have been submitted before. And like I mentioned earlier, we're trying to keep a focus on how to link because there's a bit more about what the board does, a bit more about them. And any questions that we don't get to, we will either have a look in the ether pad or over on meta as well. So time to get in and get to know people a bit more. And I'm going to start with Rosie. So Rosie, tell us what skill or talent or area of expertise you think you bring to your role that you had no idea would actually be a useful thing as part of your work here. Well, thanks for the question, Lisa. I think I'm going to talk about this. In the last 15 years or so of a very long career, my work focused on what we would call talent and culture. To be successful in that field requires education and experience, for example, to develop an ethics perspective unique to this kind of work. But it also requires a combination of abilities and skills and knowledge, things like empathy on one hand and confidence on the other, networking and multitasking, good listening skills, good communication skills, good relationship building skills, critical thinking, big picture thinking. Now that I sit on the board, faculty's background is especially useful during conversations related to human resources broadly construed. When I first joined the board, I thought that the most important background I brought with me was the perspective of being a veteran with comedian. And also my deep commitment to the 2030 movement strategy that I've been pleasantly surprised to find that this professional background that I have is also quite useful in my service on the board. Thank you, Rosie.  And a question for you is, how can the foundation go about building a diverse board, both in terms of experience, but also background? This question we're asking ourselves all the time. First of all, we need to understand what we understand by diversity. And I think personally, I think there is a pitfall to avoid it. And the pitfall to avoid is just following the cultural standards both by the US. For instance, the notions of race in the United States are very different from elsewhere. And just to use an example that I'm more familiar with, Untermensch was a very important race category in Europe with ramifications even for the current day, while the skin color less so around here. And there are many other examples from other countries. So I think the United States approach is very useful, but there are no notions of case. The social classes are interpreted differently, considered less important, and so on and so forth. So especially if we look at the experience we're looking for as well, we need to be very specific about knowing what do we want? Is experience from other boards with budgets over $10 billion crucial or is it just important? Is understanding open source, open knowledge crucial or just useful? Are we seeking experts, world-class experts even, whatever field they're working? Are we willing to compromise this skill if other important books are thick like community experience or the diversity we're looking for? We have to put a lot of emphasis on, we have historically put a lot of emphasis on gender, but I think the truth is that so far the WMF Board has been luckily exemplary in terms of gender balance for the years, but much less so, for example, in terms of age balance. So we need to be very careful about this. We need to think how should we treat geographical diversity as a region or should we consider socioeconomic status so we should get set there. Let's give you an example, should the jet center from Singapore be considered by default a better sitting country than a minor from Moldova because we prioritize Asia and the private race Europe. It's a very tough approach. I think there are many approaches to this, but luckily enough we're working hard to make it sensible. These are the questions that are really intensely debated within the governance committee. We're hoping to have some knowledge driven conversations in the future, maybe incorporating some existing indexes, measures, and we also hope of course to bring these conversations back to the community to have something sensible and stable to work on. Thank you, that was a really interesting answer. I'm just gonna remind everyone speaking today we've got some amazing translators listening to us all. So we all just need to remember to speak slowly for them, they're doing a great job for everybody listening in different languages. Lorenzo, I'm sure there's lots of surprises being part of the board. Anything weird or wonderful or very interesting topics you've come across that you were surprised as you ended up kind of dealing with? Yeah, many of the things I've seen what I expected, but one thing that pops to my mind that was totally unexpected came from my first board meeting in September, 2021. Actually at the time I was not even appointed as a board member, I was just an observer. And there was a presentation about the human light impact assessment which was recently completed. And there were general presentation, introduction and other general stuff, but also some few specific cases. And one of the first slide talked about something like the impact of the Taliban taking Kabul on Wikipedia and Wikimedia. And yeah, I can't go into the detail of the issue here because there's a bit of a sense, but the point is I'm not used to thinking that the Taliban's taking Kabul is my problem. I know that it is a problem. I know that it's a very important issue globally, but I'm not used to think that this is something I need to take into consideration in what I do. But it actually turns out that there are consequences for the Wikimedia Foundation. And it's when doing that board meeting that was one definitely unexpected thing that made me a bit confused, let's say, on how to proceed. Thank you, Lorenzo. I'm going to read one to Ezra. Obviously it's been a great couple of days listening to loads of different thematic topics, loads of different things, loads of issues. Ezra, what would you say is one of the most pressing kind of issues or things for the movement at the moment that the board should be thinking about? Thanks for that question. For me, the most pressing issue is the constantly changing and sometimes worsening political climates around the world. We have an ongoing battle with censorship, threats to members of our movement, state-sponsored surveillance that's often enabled and normalized by corporate greed. We have massive human rights abuses taking place in countries that we have solid memberships in and contributions from or places that we'd really love to grow. The amount of funding that is going towards propaganda and disinformation campaigns that unfortunately cannot be tackled with mere technology, climate change that would impact the way we approach things like data centers and just overall concern about the state of the world. These are external things and factors that we can't always foresee or control or effectively prepare for in advance, but it does force us to keep our heads on the ground and constantly iterate our path to either bypass or address these major political, social and environmental concerns. Thank you, Ezra. I'm going to hand over now to Shani. So the question for you is when you joined the board, what was the thing you were most looking forward to doing when you first joined? Oh, that's actually an easy one. Some people got a tough one. So mine is easy because for me it was about serving the movement. It's as easy as that, right? I have been in the movement since 2011, so I actually joined in Wikimania Haifa. That was my first Wikimania and first encounter with the whole movement. And during these three days, I got completely hooked. I joined that day Wikimedia Israel and I started to learn how to edit. And I can literally say that it has changed my life, right? It has infiltrated every aspect of it. It's just there are no bounds. It's part of what I do now academically as well. It's part of my research and I've been involved in so much outreach work. And as a volunteer, I felt that there are some things that were bothering me that were not getting fixed. So I was really looking forward to being on the board so I can be in a position to actually do something about it and try to hopefully change things for the better. And I think one of the key areas that have been on my mind a lot is that I felt this type of divide between the volunteers doing the grass root work on doing editing, doing projects, et cetera, and the foundation. And I really wanted to, and affiliates of course. So like three different, almost detached entities in the movement not really working together. So I was looking forward to doing things to improve that. And I'm happy that I was able to be supported by the rest of the board. And we formed a community affairs committee and that became something that we invest in. Just improving the relationships between the different entities, the different stakeholders has been very important to me. And also technological work that is key to what we do and in order to serve humanity. So just being on the board has allowed me to collaborate to the highest level and just do that work and serve the movement that I love so much. So that's been a privilege. Thank you for allowing me to do that. Thank you, Shani. Natty's our chair of the board. Nat, I'm gonna ask you maybe just to explain, especially for newcomers, what the role of the chair is just in kind of day-to-day terms and the areas of things that you might look after. Thank you. So, first of all, it's really a lot of boring stuff, like approving expense reports of the trustees, signing some contracts and the chair of the board is also a budget holder and so forth and so on and so forth. The chair also builds a draft of the agenda and that's basically the only real superpower that the chair has that's building the agenda inviting people to meetings and steering the work of the board overall, trying to create conditions for the board to be able to work productively. And so it also involves some bits of logistics and some ceremonial stuff. I can say that the things that I enjoy most about the chair is actually being able to support people in their personal roles. I would be like one of the first points, contacts, or at least at the point of approving things for people to be able to become better at what they do. So the board work better and expertise and these don't also stick to the privatization of the board. Thank you Nat. So last but not least, I think we have Victoria. Would you be able to tell us what a day in the life of a board member looks like or maybe a day in the life of your life as a board member? A day in my life. First of all, we are all volunteers we're not paid to do the board work. So whatever is left of the board member is I need to fit it around my work. Therefore, when I come to work in the morning I check my work email and then if I don't have anything pressing I check the board email. I'm in New York and most of the stuff in the US. So sometimes I have several emails that came while I was sleeping. Then when I have lunchtime I reply to emails. Sometimes there are documents to edit. Sometimes we have online meetings during the day but it's relatively unfrequently. So the board is divided into committees which work on various aspects of the Ritminya Foundation and movement. Shanee already mentioned the community affairs committee. I am on that committee and several others. So sometimes we have a committee meeting and for me it would be in the evening. And then also a lot of things trying to organize because we're in different time zones, a lot of polls when I will be available when everybody will be available and things like that. So in general it's like a life of any Wikimedian.  So we also have several messengers and I always check what's happening in the board chat. That's the life of a trustee. Great, thank you so much. So we have a little bit of time left and I'm wondering if there's anybody within just the audience here, if they've got any questions that they'd like to put out there and then some of the trustees can pick them up and we can take a look at the etherpad as well but anybody from the audience here today that wants to add anything in the chat, newcomers especially. Dig around, find out a bit more, what else you want to find out about what the board does and maybe while we're looking at that, Mayor would you be able to post in the chat just the etherpad question so that the board members can have a look and then have a look at answering that and anybody else if you walk away from this later on and think, oh, I have a question, why did I not think about that at the time? Please ask in the etherpad or you can put it on the meta page. So Mayor is saying there's a question in the chat about a specific edit on one of our projects. Let's go back and see if we can find it. Mayor, can you repost it, let's have a look or has anybody else spotted it? Sorry, I think that actually has a direct response to it. It's just a specific edit. Go for it, Nat. Yeah, actually, it's not about that question, it's about the questions overall in the chat. The board is a collective body, so we all individually as not even board members but individuals can have thoughts or can have positions on some issues, but before the board actually has a position. We need to convene, we need to discuss and we need to come to a position. That's why these kind of questions which are not directed at the board actually does or what the board as a collective body has already discussed and decided on a position it stands on, we can't answer. I mean, as individually you can ask us somewhere, I don't know, doing some events, what is the other thoughts on this or that on everything, but as regarding those questions that we haven't discussed or we don't know and if there are any positions then they would be listed publicly and shared. That is actually a question in the chat about the board's elections, whether we like them and whether it is stressful for candidates. I've been a candidate twice and I can tell you that the candidate is really stressful. It is also stressful a bit for the board because governance committees take part in the organizing and then manage different kind of parts before handing in all of the elections to actually run the kind of operational part of the elections. And just like running any event or any thing that is happening, it's difficult. Blushes are happening. So yeah, I'm not going to take any questions. It kind of wants to chime in and add. So there's another question. I think elections, sorry, just wanted to add to what Nat said that the elections are definitely a very exhaustive and stressful process but people who cannot stand the stress will come for a great surprise if they are elected because being on the board is much more stressful on occasion. So there's that. But of course, we need to make the process better to get better candidates. This is the goal, not necessarily making it nicest for people who are running but selecting people who will serve best. Hopefully also making it a little nicer. For sure, thank you, Tarius. There's a question that says, how can we as a movement do better about creating leadership opportunities in affiliates or other organizations to build better skill sets of working mediums so that I suppose then it's like a stepping stone that they can then be more prepared to become a member of the board. So how do we kind of encourage people to move their way up through different organizations? Maybe Tarius would like to answer that as a chair of the governance committee. Sure, I mean, we're working on a couple of fronts. First of all, we want to increase diversity. We need to increase the, well, maybe not increase the quality of the candidates but try to make the process such that the quality is a priority. We need to reach out to the affiliates. So we're trying to handle quite a number of things. And I'm not sure if we can do it all together at the same time, but if you look at the past elections I think there's already progress towards the goal of being a little more inclusive, more meritocratic and also to be reaching out to people who are not necessarily, we used not to be necessarily in the typical pool of candidates. We are increasing diversity in this sense at the very least. So I think we'll work on it but the only thing I can say is that it's a process. It's a journey we're doing our best we're meeting regularly every couple of weeks trying to discuss this and we're bringing it back to the community as well. So the only thing I can say is bear with us if you have any ideas, please come forward. We love to hear from you and we love good ideas of how things should be run. We cannot make promises to accept all of it but we definitely will consider an essential proposal that is sent. Thank you Darius. And just to touch on something that Nat said earlier she has run twice now. She obviously loves being part of it so much. Maybe some of the other board members could just tell us just even in a simple sentence what actually made you run for election. So Rosie I'm going to pick on you first. The short answer is I thought it was my turn. I thought it was my turn to try to be appointed to the board and make a difference. I felt like I had so many years within this movement where I got to enjoy being a comedian and see things in different perspectives, different communities that I'm a part of and I felt like like I said it was just my turn to try to sit on the board offer my perspective and try to make a difference. Thank you Rosie. Ezra what was the drive factor for you? For me I gave a keynote with Mania and after that I was approached by the chair at the time asking if there would be interest and of course I was very concerned as somebody who was not traditionally would be considered a Wikimedian. So that was one thing that gave me pause. I was wondering if I would be the right fit but the idea was that somebody like myself with human rights expertise who may not already be part of the movement what would make me join is the values that I shared with the foundation in terms of access to information, access to knowledge as a human right. And that's what made me want to join and help build the movement from within and understand it was definitely a huge learning curve for me but it also made me understand how somebody who may not be a part of this movement already become a part of it and how easy it is actually to be a part of it even though from the outside you may look very intimidating considering the many people that we have in the movement with 15 years plus expertise as a community but for us to reach our goals towards diversity and genuine representation as a global community this is really what sparked my interest in coming a part of the board. Thank you and it's great to hear the different ways that people have kind of accessed it. Shani, what about you? What was your one thing that said I have to do this now? I've actually mentioned that before but I can say that being asked by my community to run has been really important. In the first time that I ran in 2019 it was a different election process it was through affiliates and we had quite a change back then of allowing user groups all affiliates actually to vote for the first time. So that was a really huge change that the previous board brought about and that is how I got to be there. I've been heavily involved in all types of affiliates and from chapters to user groups to a thorgs and involved in governance. So that kind of made sense for me this election is very different and it's an iterative process. Let's just say it like this and we keep working on changing and finding the right way to do it. It's not a perfect bulletproof process just yet. Thanks Shani. Lorenzo, what about yourself? What made you get up and join? At that specific point of time it was the most useful thing I could do for the Wikimedia movement. It was not like that before. I mean it's specific of the time but that was the overall thought. Great, thanks Lorenzo. And Victoria, what about yourself? As I said in this video it was asked by Russian Wikipedia community where I'm from but I also want to answer to the question which was asked in chat and it's connected to it. If the elections, board elections are like and admin elections. I would say that it's a bit like that because people ask questions of you but if I compare it with elections in Russian Wikipedia then there is a procedure which was hardly changed from 2006 and people can look at past answers and see what will be happening. Here with the board election, it's a mess. I will not deny that it's a mess and it was a mess in 2021. And it happens because there is no body, there is not one body responsible for the election but there are at least three bodies. The first one is the board. On the board we have election task force of which I remember, so I'm responsible for that as well. And the movement changes and the movement even in 2014 is not the same as it's now. So we try and again it was a question in the chat. We try to find people that needed on the board right now diversity in everything and that's why the procedure changed and probably too much. So this is one group, the board that will have election committee who are re-comedians selected by the board to run the election itself and make tactical decisions. And again, they're all volunteers and they're spread around the time zones and there are consequences of COVID and whatever. And then we have staff that is again spread all around the world which is working on the election and there is technical staff and in different departments and they interact with us, the board and with the community election. And at the end of it, you don't have one single person that is responsible for everything, different people responsible for different projects. And that's why you have what we have. Things change at the last moment and not all people know about the changes and the poor candidates are at the end of it. I'm very sorry for them because it's a difficult process. It's not like one community is asking you questions and lots of communities. And many of them, it's not the first language. For me, for example, it's not the first language but it's a cognitive weight. So the short answer would be it's much more difficult than an admin election. But if you come through it, then you're prepared for the board that does a lot of work. Thank you, Victoria. Well, it's really good to hear the different diverse backgrounds you're all from, the different kinds of points of entry, ways that you come in, different encouragements. So I think that gives a really good flavor of how diverse the board is and all your different backgrounds and hopefully encourages people to think more about getting involved with the board in the future perhaps as well. We're going to wrap things up now. So I just wanted to say thank you to everybody who joined us today. If you have further questions, please do put them on the ether pads and we'll be getting ready to answer them in the next few days. This session will also be on YouTube and Commons in the next week or so, so feel free to share and watch back. And I'm just going to hand over to Nat just to say goodbye to you all. And here I'm practically illustrating how one of the chair's responsibilities is being done, ceremonial staff are thanking you all for attending and spending some time with us and for your questions and see you around. Thank you everyone. Bye.


All right, so Evelyn asked whether I recommend the TikTok style videos for Instagram reels. And I would even say for Facebook stories, right? Same thing. I think that whatever you can do that is authentic to you, that communicates a meaningful message that is filtering in your ideal clients, it's great. So, but the, but that's the challenge is that with such a short video, which TikToks are short videos. Can you communicate a meaningful enough message that filters in your ideal clients versus draws the masses who are probably not your ideal clients. And you might say, George, what's wrong with that? Wouldn't I just want and not just by the way, not just Instagram reels, you can also do YouTube shorts. YouTube shorts are sub under one minute videos on YouTube. George, why wouldn't I just want tons of people following me? Why not? If I can make an entertaining dance video. Look at this little caption. Look at that caption. Boom.  I'm not a good dancer. So it's like, George, I disagree. You're not amazing dancer. Every time I've seen you dance, you're amazing. So why wouldn't I do that on YouTube and Instagram and, and Facebook and Twitter to and even even LinkedIn. Why not? LinkedIn can do short videos. So why not is because when you gather a mass audience that isn't your ideal audience, you now have the problem of reaching the ideal people within your mass audience. And the algorithm will not be friendly to you, nor will ads be friendly to you. So what I mean is this. Let's say you don't run ads. Let's say you're just depending on the algorithm. Great. Okay, you're trying to get free free free attention through the algorithm. All right. So you have an entertaining TikTok video. Right.  And then you start talking about things that matter to your offerings. And then the mass, the masses go back is this I'm not it's this is not unless you can make your offerings really entertaining. And still the offerings really entertaining. So a bunch of people go into your website and then they drop off and that bounce that high bounce rate might actually have a negative effect on your SEO possibly or at least in my in it might have a negative effect on the social media algorithm. If they see the social media platform sees people bouncing back from the website very quickly they're like something's wrong here. They're bouncing back very quickly. In other words, whether we're talking about social media algorithms or so or as you know Google search engine algorithms, about quick bounce backs, meaning people go into your site and go, not for me, coming back is not good for your, for your algorithmic presence, meaning it's not they won't benefit won't, they won't want to feature more of your stuff in the algorithm. So this is why I'm very careful to. I'm very careful to only be entertaining. When I'm talking about the things that are filtering in my ideal audience. I'm very careful not to entertain for the sake of entertainment, because I'm drawing in the wrong people now. Let's now we'll talk about organic traffic. Let's now talk about whatever you use ads, right. Using ads means you have a warm audience and a co audience great co audience are people who don't know you are warm audience are people who have engaged with you in some way, including watching three seconds of your video that's counting warm audience on Instagram and Facebook. So if someone has watched three seconds or the whole video where you're really entertaining and they're like oh what a entertaining person. Now they're engaged with you. Now you're running warm audience ads people we're reaching people who have, you know, who have engaged with your in some way now you have a large warm audience because lots and lots of people have engaged with the entertaining video. Now you have are spending a lot of money every time, reaching a warm audience, many of whom are not your ideal people. This is why I have the ironic or confused or confounding strategy. I'm being boring to my cool audience. Weird, but it works. Now I'm not I'm not trying to be boring, but I'm certainly not trying to entertain more than whatever is naturally entertaining with my carousel posts on Instagram. It's not the entertaining but the message itself. The message itself filters in the right people if they are already thinking about that problem. If that problem matters to them, right whatever problem I'm talking about in that carousel post or whatever idea is not for the mainstream, but it's for my deal like the mainstream I hope will just keep scrolling. People who are not my deal I audience. I hope they keep scrolling I hope they don't engage and swipe, because if they don't engage. Good. At least they're not right for me. I don't have a larger one audience that I have to spend money reaching out to anyway. So I hope this makes sense. And this is why and also, I'm too lazy to learn how to dance. So I'm also too lazy to do the video editing where I'm like, all right, pause my my finger went there now I got to pause and put that caption there. My finger went there and I got to pause and put that cat.  I'm too lazy, but I'm not lazy in creating carousel posts because I just cut and paste various paragraphs that's not that's not how to do. That's easy to do. I'm editing this. I'm too lazy for that. But so I hope this helps the benefit. But however, I mean, I could see somebody who has a mass audience type of brand. You know, for example, if you have a mass audience strategy like for example, Sean Galanoss, you know, one of my buddies has a massive following on Instagram and tick tock and interestingly he said he's stopped he's going to stop it might be for this reason, I don't know, but he has a massive following on various social media. And his strategy is a mass mass audience strategy because he talks about relationships and love and he he he's trying to get a TV deal, television deal. And so he needs a massive audience to get a television deal. And he also sells courses. I don't know how well his courses do in terms of the mass audience. Not super well, but you know enough and he gets donations because he's so entertaining talking about relationship stuff that he actually gets thousands of dollars a month in donations. Consistently just donations people are not trying to buy his stuff just Sean love you. I don't he has Patreon probably has other ways of getting donations, but that's a common model these days is be so entertaining you build a massive audience of whom a tiny tiny tiny percentage love you enough to donate to you every month. But it's tough because I tried that model, and I wasn't entertaining enough. Sorry, I wasn't. Sean is much better looking than me, and much more entertaining than me and you kind of have to be right and and a bunch of you here watching me here are good looking and entertaining enough but I'm not so I just have to. Just George, you're beautiful to me thank you I know I know, but it's like you're like tiny tiny percent of audience who think I'm beautiful, the mass audience don't. So it's really a different strategy it really is and and if you are beautiful enough and entertaining enough. You might go with that strategy but my complaint about not my complaint. When I think about the Sean gal now strategy of being beautiful and entertaining which Sean is. I think about what he had to he had to deal with us he gets so many direct messages, he gets so many messages coming at him all the time. I told him, I told Sean, hey Sean, looks like you have to create an auto response for your Instagram and he did and he doesn't love it either because every time I mess it Sean through Instagram, I get his auto response. So even his friends have to get his audience. So it's like, it's like you, like when you get to that stage you have to like have gatekeeper, you know with the with the bots. Thankfully, because I'm not using the mass audience strategy. So my audience grows, but at a very sustainable pace, where my audience is growing at the pace that my productivity skills are growing. So I get, I don't get too many emails. As you know, when you email me I get back to you my inbox is at zero, almost every day. So as my productivity skills grow as my ability to to to to process information and process messages grows. So does my audience go bit by bit. So it's a beautiful model in my in my opinion it's beautiful because it doesn't grow too fast. And yet I have enough. I have more than enough really in terms of sales and in terms of messages, but, but the messages comes just enough. So anyway, it's kind of a philosophical answer but it's what I've seen over the years so I hope this helps. Tara, you have some experience doing the tick tock thing just as an experiment you want to share. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I just want to caveat this with I'm not an entertaining tick tocker I just decided I was going to do a normal everyday typical video. I changed locations and then I just decided to do it for 30 seconds so I've done to tick tock reels, and I just compared it to two of my under 60 second videos Instagram posts. Okay. Yeah. Yes, my 60 second I posts on Instagram so one one real head 36 likes three actions and reach of 872 accounts a lot one one tick tock real had 32 likes one action and 1,505 accounts. And then my two non tick tock reals. Yeah, I mean, so just IGTV straight out nine likes one action 114 accounts. Yeah, seven likes zero action 124 accounts. Right. So, yeah, no, reels. This is like almost 10 at this time at this time of this recording in 2021. Well, even before that but probably in 2022 as well, Instagram is giving reels an extra boost of audience. So for sure. If you make reels you'll you'll likely get more traffic or more attention than you would with just regularly uploading an Instagram video or an IGTV video. It's true. Now, now when I look at the insights, it looks like, because I hashtag my reels right and those hashtags seem to work pretty well I've investigated those. Yes, it looks like 90% of the accounts are coming from the hashtags. Ah, okay. So, which is a whole discussion because I, I don't love hashtag audiences, because they're often not the right fit but maybe you are getting I mean hashtags audiences need, you'd like need to like research, like who am I actually reaching here, because they're often not the right audience but you have you noticed that they are getting you're getting good. Yeah, yeah, I've been getting a lot of them are, you know, some of them are niche mates. Okay, which, okay, yeah, which is potential collaborators, you know, yeah, and some of some will comment, and I see people getting people will tag other friends. And so, yeah, yeah, so. So it sounds promising for you, Tara so I'm glad we're ending this segment with with, you know, an alternative perspective because I, I don't feel like I have the right answers to everything because I think that I so believe in experimentation so I'm really sure that you are experimenting. And those of you who are interested in reels, you should experiment with them. The key, as I was just talking about here, if you can study the type, if you if it's possible to see who is liking it. Sometimes it's hard to know if it's coming from the hashtag audience or coming from the non hatch me on your regular audience. If it's possible to, to look at the profiles of the engages of your of your reels, or if you tick tock videos, and see confirm am I reaching the right people. That's what matters most. So, thank you.