Welcome to tomorrow. My name is Jamie Higginbotham.  The other way is a Ryan Caden. And oh my goodness, what an incredible week. This is technically call and chill. Having said that, I know no one ever likes to call in, but if you want to and just to geek out, if you look in the description, there is a link to the EV mug stuff and you can call in and have your own voice. And I wanted, I thought it'd be fun. You know, it's not often that an experimental rocket of this, you know, this is kind of one of those once in a life, not, I don't wanna call it once in a lifetime, but the last time I think we had rockets of this caliber being tested was the Apollo era, right? Like, and now we've got the space launch system, which is like an Apollo class, Apollo, a Saturn V class type rocket, right? It's super crazy, super ultra heavy lift rocket. You've got Starship, which is a super ultra heavy lift rocket. Blue Yula is working on potentially a super, oh, so blue Yula. So if blue and ULA merge, I'll call them blue Yula. It's like Dracula, but with blue and ULA. So blue Yula would be, are working on a super heavy, blue, right? Blue Yula, right? Would have a super ultra heavy lift rocket. And so it's just, I don't know, I think it's a very inspiring and amazing time to be aligned. I am beyond exhausted. So I'm gonna turn it over to Ryan and Jared. I'm gonna try to kind of keep my camera on. Obviously I can't talk about company X stuff due to my relationship with the company, but I can tell you about my emotions and my feelings. I can't tell you much about, I can't go into anything company specific, but I can talk about my experiences, but I thought we'd start with, let's start with Jared, because Jared is barking. Yes, you know, my dogs are just as excited as I am about this. It spreads in this household. But yeah, so fun thing about that. My experience for this launch was catching the replay because I was not feeling well. So I slept, I just sleep over that. But boy, am I, yeah, I know, I know. Boy, am I upset that I decided not to watch it live because it looked absolutely spectacular. The views were great. It was just, it was everything that as an engineer, I've wanted to see. And I can only imagine what the actual engineering footage, the non-public side stuff looks like based upon just how good the public facing side images looked. That tracking shot. You will have to continue to imagine. Oh, that tracking shot of hot staging with super heavy flipping as fast as it did, as agile as it was, blew my mind. Like I was just trying to remind myself that this thing is like, this thing is taller than a like, it's the whole Falcon 9 and it's just like, whoop, like in a couple seconds. And just, man, it just, I was so jazzed about that. I'm super happy to see the results of everything. It looks like a lot of the big issues that happened during IFT1 appear to be solved. Obviously it would be great to have a second flight that shows that those have been solved. Now it's probably a whole new set of big issues that have to be figured out. But also that's what test lights are for. So really cool to see such a resounding success in the changes of things that were made. Now on to new changes for what will hopefully be IFT3 sometime next year. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I just cannot, I could not get enough of that. So, yeah. Awesome. More, more, please. We do have, hopefully I'm pronouncing this correctly, Sakura's light, there we go. So Jerry, I'm sorry, I took control so that we can go into our dynamic scenes. But yeah, welcome. What was your, what was your experience like? Hi, yeah. I loved it. I was up, I get up early because I work here for the council here over in Norfolk, not too far away from Ryan himself. And I was up before a, had all the video streams going, listening to the audio in my van, got to one o'clock and it was amazing. The ramp up from everybody was ecstatic. I loved it. It was better than the first test flight is, indescribable almost. How was it, how is it in your opinion better than the first test flight? Like, obviously the flight itself was better. Yeah, the flight lasted longer. I think everyone knew what was going to happen. They had a more cohesive idea of what would happen. They could explain it better. There was a lot more people around as well. There's a lot more people watching the streams about on the internet that I saw as well. And everyone seemed to be more excited as well because they knew it was going to go better than the last one. They were hoping that the whole stage zero and everything would survive that everything would go so much better. And it did. And everyone seemed to enjoy it very thoroughly. What do you think, what are you excited for for flight three, right? Like, because like flight two, what seconds away from orbit, right? So flight three, what are you excited for there? I definitely want to say, well, if they go for orbit, make orbit, if not sub orbital, make it to Hawaii, test the heat shields, tough rock or whatever they call it. And I hope they get all the data from that. And then beyond that, refueling up in orbit and beyond, is definitely a new step on the way to space. How about, so, Ryan, how about you? Like, we haven't really talked to you too much. Like, what are your thoughts? My thought, so I was submixing a feed for NSF and I had, you know, pretty much every single robotic camera we had out in the field in front of me. And it was kind of like, wait, it launched because this is the first attempt to intend to launch for this vehicle ever. No test vehicle launches on the first attempt that it intends to launch. That just doesn't happen. That's just impossible. And yet it happened. So I'm seeing this thing lift off in front of me and I'm just in utter disbelief that it's actually launching. And it's, I've been up all night. I don't know, emotions are out the window. It's just happening at this point. It's like, okay, I guess it's flying now. And it just kept going uphill and we had all the engines. That plume was just, the plume was beautiful. The way that all of the engine, all of the engines were interacting with each other. I don't think that there has been a first stage flight this successful with that many engines, like ever in history.  The flight one, its first stage engines died off. Flight two, it was just, you know, that booster did like an exceptional job all the way up to hot staging, which again was spectacular to see and utterly unbelievable that it actually worked first time. Like it released it. So I think in my opinion, every little thing, the headline items that went wrong with flight one, which was the launch pad got absolutely demolished by the engines from Super Heavy. Super Heavy itself didn't work. The engines were cutting out, the hydraulics were spluttering into a million pieces of confetti and there was no staging whatsoever. The launch pad is still intact. It's a bit toasty, but what do you expect? It's the most powerful rocket in history. It's toasty and one of the tank shells, I think like a water tank, tank shell was dented even more by the shock wave, but there was no flying concrete. All the cameras are intact. The booster, all 33 engines successfully fired from launch to stage set and the fact that the ship actually disconnected from the booster, ignited all six of its raptors and carried on going for like eight minutes into flight. I mean, compared to IFT one, this is just an exceptional launch for flight two. And now we can clearly see that there are some things that need to be worked on for flight three, like the booster FTS or exploded, the ship FTS or exploded. So it's quite clear how SpaceX has managed to rapidly innovate on what went wrong with flight one for flight two. Like it's so clear. It's so obvious the success of flight two because you can point out everything that went wrong with flight one and it worked perfectly on flight two. Obviously we want more flights to make sure it wasn't a fluke, but like that's pretty impressive how you can just take everything that was ticked off on flight one worked perfectly or pretty much perfectly for flight two. Now we just need the ships to stop really being glorified nose cones and for the development to kind of shift off that way a bit. So I'll repeat again for anyone who wants to join. I think it's a lot of fun to join in on the live show. Hit the link in the description, open up the EVMUX, add your voice, tell us why you're excited about it. Like let's geek out over flight two. There was an earlier comment talking about, let's see here. Oh, it was Godzilla comment. So for those who watch the webcast, this was, I had absolutely nothing to do with this webcast. I had no idea what the content was. I had, I mean, I don't want to say I had nothing to do because I do run the voice and video team. So like we had cameras out there, but I had no idea what they were going to do in this particular webcast. And so then when I saw that Godzilla pop out like as a unit of measurement, I thought that was hilarious. I thought that was a stroke of genius. And I just, I loved that the media team was willing to have a little bit of fun with it. I thought that was pretty cool. I was on console, I was console adjacent, right? So my team was on console and I was kind of behind them supporting. And so, you know, obviously can't talk anything about that, but I do remember, you know, where at T minus, you know, 20 seconds or so. And so I'm, you know, I kind of get up and I stand kind of in the back corner because the windows in that building are not kind of not great in the back corner. And I have my iPhone up because in this particular control room, there's no other cameras recording it. And I'm like, oh, I should record this. And so I'm recording everyone and it's like the view and everything. And you know, the vehicle lifts off the pad and I'm like, oh my God, this is incredible. The sound wave hits the building and you're like, whoa, this is a powerful rocket. And then like, and then to my left. So we're just surrounded by screens, right? And one of the screens off and just out of my view to the left is the webcast. And so I look over to the webcast and I look at the graphics and all of the engines are lit up on the graphic. And I think to myself, uh-oh, the telemetry that drives the graphics. We've got a bad, there's a bad telemetry feed making it into the graphics. And so then I look down at the stage zero interface and I see all engines firing. And then I whip back up to the screen and they had just cut to one of the tracking shots. We can clearly see all 33 engines firing. And if this video ever gets released, I think you can hear me actually like, whoop, like I give out a whoop. I'm like, whoo, because I realized that all the engines are still going. I'm like, we could do this. And that was like the first moment of realization for me where I was like, this is incredible. And then hot staging. Like saw that, you know, saw the telemetry come in and I'm like, oh my God, we did it. We did it. And like the cheer in the control room, it was pretty quiet. Like lift off was kind of, you know, muted because again, you're in the control room, right? It's not, you don't really have a moment, at least not in that control room to like cheer lift off because you're focused on everything. Once you're off the pad, you're kind of in a safe area. You kind of like, you can unclench ever so slightly. You're still clenchy, but you can kind of unclench slightly. And so you relax just a little bit and then hot staging happened. And like just the pent up, you know, a lot of us have been awake for, I mean, I was going on 24 hours, 25 hours at that point.  Absolutely erupted in cheering. And it was the most hilarious cheering ever because it's like all of this emotion in cheering and everything coming out all at once. And then realizing what, no, I got to take it with my tongue. So it's like, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. It's like, it's really loud and really intense and really short. Everyone right back on the console again. And then, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.  This is looking great, you know. And then, yeah, it's like just seconds from orbit, seconds from orbit, I was, I was, it was emotional. It was amazing. It was felt the raw power of Starship or super heavy specifically. You just felt it. I mean, it was shaking the building, the whole like, all of the, like everything was like, right? I mean, it was, it was amazing. And just like, you are humbled by the power of this rocket. It is really, really cool. I also had an opportunity because I'm down here at Starbase, there's a mock-up. Not like, you get to walk inside of like the Starship living area. We've got that kind of over in, well, I forget actually where it's located, but it's here at Starship. And we don't normally have it open up, but you know, kind of has a celebration. I got to walk into that. And for those of who are Doctor Who fans, it is very much so like a TARDIS, right? Like you're, you look at the rocket, you're like, that's pretty big, but like, I don't know. Like, it feels like it's going to be kind of cramped in there. And then you walk inside of this thing, it's massive.  When you step outside of it again, and it's so big, at least my brain, can't comprehend how big it is. It's amazing. I am beyond excited for the future. Let's talk about the future. Now that I've got rambled on for a half-minute. Ika, as Ika says, nine meters across is big. It is huge, huge. I don't know if you could see. I brought up the first scale. I've got both of them ready to go if you want to take a look at them. Okay, oh yeah, yeah. I'm screen sharing. This video. Yeah, so that's the first one, right? So Starship is a Statue of Liberty. Super Heavy is literally a whole Falcon 9 itself. And then comes our favorite one, right? Because we were all talking about this one. This one's gonna take me a little bit of time to get this up for you here. So give me a moment. Oh, I was typing. I was doing show things, then we went back. Yeah, sorry, sorry. But I got to switch out. And then I got to stay as a Kaiju enthusiast myself. Oh, there we go. Yeah, I loved that so much. Here was that epic shot that they had. So, yeah, that was a great forescale. It had sound effects, too. And he was like, because I walked across the screen, I loved that so much. It was so great. It was so great. Everyone loves Mechagodzilla. So why don't we talk, let's talk about the future, right? So, if Flight 2, I think, yeah, like, what do you guys think the future is going to look like with regards to Flight 3 and beyond? Dada, actually, we haven't heard from you too much and it's a call-in show, so you get to talk now. Ha! I'm talking about the future, I don't know. It's, I don't doubt space accessibility. Well, hang on, we never talked to you about it. We never talked about your experiences, either. So why don't, wait, wait, did we? No, I haven't watched the whole thing yet. I watched little snippets on cruising through Twitter and a couple of YouTube things about it, but it's just, the visuals for me are fantastic.  The hot staging, I mean, just gorgeous visuals from all of this. And I don't know the source of all of them, so I apologize if I'm not attributing proper credit, but both in concert with, you know, what SpaceX was collecting and, you know, all the people that were there, you know, with their own equipment broadcasting on their own. Thanks for collecting all of that and sharing with the world, but just, it's hard, even from all of that imagery, it's hard to understand the scale of this thing. And to be fair, Godzilla has been very, very many different sizes throughout the years, so that's kind of a weird metric to be measuring a spaceship by, but Jared's graphic with the Statue of Liberty and Falcon 9 kind of puts it in perspective because it's even harder to understand how big those are. Ika says Godzilla should have been holding an SLS for a Saturn V for a while. I'm like chewing on it. I love Godzilla. All right, so I, forward-looking, Ryan, have we talked to you about, we haven't talked to you about forward-looking yet, right? What do you think about light three? I think so far, I'm no offense to ship 24 and ship 25, but they have been glorified nose cones. Both from the same sort of development version, if you will, the ship 24 and the ship 25, kind of like siblings, really. So I wasn't really expecting anything spectacular in terms of, you know, a perfect heat shield, perfect flight from them. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting them to act as a nice nose cone for the booster to launch with on top. Ship 28, however, the next ship coming down the pipeline has a lot of big and significant upgrades compared to ship 24 and 25. In my opinion, ship 28 is to 24 and 25, what booster nine is to booster seven. We saw how booster seven did a terrible job at its job during flight one and how booster nine just did it perfectly. Ship 28, if the transition from booster seven to booster nine is anything to go by, I think ship 28 is gonna do a fantastic job of where ship 25 failed, which was, you know, exploding. So ship 28, with all of its new electrical systems and whatnot and hopefully as they keep learning to work with the heat shield tiles, hopefully they get a bit more sticky and less prone to falling off. Hopefully ship 28 will be able to stick that suborbital trajectory around the earth, all the way around to Hawaii, the long way around. You know, honestly, if booster 10 does the exact same perfect job that booster nine did, I think ship 28 has a 85% plus chance of actually getting to Hawaii. That's better than, I mean, that's pretty good. This latest flight has really changed my perspective on it. Flight one, I was like, okay, this is gonna be like 50, 50 odds to like for staging for a very long time. Flight two, like this has changed my perspective on it entirely. I think Hawaii in flight three is entirely possible now with ship 28 and booster 10 being, you know, the latest in the development path. Let's head over to Jared. What do you think the future is like? And then Jack is like, call in if you want me.  Let's get as many people in on the show talking about your experience during Starship Flight two, what you think the future looks like for flight three. And after we have flight three, I'm gonna start talking. I think I wanna hear your predictions for Mars, moon, beyond. Like, what does this all look like for all of that? Cause I think it's really exciting, Jack's how do you, there's a link in the description. Click the link. So, Jared, what's your thought process? So my thought process on it is that IFT three is gonna have to answer some of the really big questions that we now have from IFT two. Those very big questions to me are, first of all, there are a multitude of photos of Starship showing the absolutely epic amount of tile loss on it. So something has to be done about retaining and keeping those tiles on the vehicle. I saw a lot of people hand waving it by saying it's just a prototype. But yes, you should still have things as correct as possible on your prototypes. Space Shuttle Enterprise was also a prototype, right? So, I mean like, and it still did its job, what it was supposed to do. So you really need to make sure that you get these things all along. So I'm hoping that, I'm really hoping that we can see some big progress made with the tiles on that there. I'm also very interested as to what happened to booster nine to cause the Automated Flight Termination System to start. When I was watching, if I could go frame by frame with it, it looked like it coughed out a couple wads of something and then terminated. So again, nobody public side knows what's going on in terms of why that Automated Flight Termination System did. So anybody who today, 24 hours later saying that they know exactly what it is is absolutely lying to your face about it. Because I'm sure even the folks at SpaceX still have to go through a data review and figure out all these things. And that takes time to digest. These are not things that are gonna happen very, very quickly. And also I'm really interested to see what happened with Starship as well. What was the problem that ended up, you were seconds away from being able to make enough velocity in order for you to actually get to where you needed to go. But didn't work, didn't work out. So we'll have to see speculation runs rampant. But of course I'm always much happier to hear from the actual companies involved with that. So I feel like IFT2 took care of all of the questions of IFT1 and then now we have a whole new set of big questions to answer for IFT3. Thank you very much Sheridan. We also, we have Andy joining us as well. So Andy, why don't we just start with what was your experience like? Oh, you'll have to unmute your microphone as well. But what was your experience like for Flight2? What was that like?  My experience was that I couldn't see the whole thing at all during the live stream because I was relying on Starlink. And for some reason, as the number of concurrent views of the everyday astronaut stream got higher and higher, the amount of video data I was getting dropped until eventually it froze completely. And so I was literally on voice comms with all the other everyday astronaut moderators listening to them telling me what was going on. So that I could update the graphics console on the screen. That's how absurd it was. So if you saw a little thing saying it's on hold or we're waiting in your countdown on the everyday astronaut stream, that was me doing it completely blind, relying on other people's information. So I've been watching it back today finding out what I missed. How'd you do? How'd you do? It was a bit stressful, but the experience was incredible to be part of something that was getting hundreds of thousands of viewers, whether or even if I wasn't one of them, live was incredible. I don't know how many people the official SpaceX stream had. I don't know how many people the NASA space flight stream had, but I know that everyday astronaut peaked at over 280,000 live views. Ryan, do you know what NSF had? Were you tracking that concurrent? I think we're approximately the same. And I know that NSF's concurrent, no flex Jamie, but NSF's concurrent for the entire duration of SpaceX's broadcast was above SpaceX's concurrent. So, you know, it's quite obvious that people no longer want to go to the company's official feed. They want to go to the community feed. So, I think that's not been set. Right, that's what happened, Ryan. That's exactly what's happening. I gotta say, my favorite bit, Ryan, was that I got to watch yours in 4K, but even when I was just now doing the replay in order to get the Mechagodzilla screenshots, I was still getting 480p, so I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah. I enjoyed each pixel of a raptor being able to see that it was operating, so. Thanks, guys. This is fantastic. Heart. Heart. Oh, I got the hearts. I got the hearts. I forgot about that. All right, Andy. How about your vision of the future? Like, what do you think both are gonna look like? I think it's going to be largely successful by its own terms of definition. And the general public will still scribe it as a failure because they'll say it crashed into the ocean. Oh, they already are? Well, I mean... No, no, no. I mean, I predict now, even if it gets all the way to Hawaii on the next flight, they'll still, the mainstream media will still say, well, oh, Elon Musk rocket crashes into ocean. That's going to be the headline. And they'll write it up as, the public seeing the headline will interpret that as, oh, he's failed again. Sadly. I mean, yeah, does that matter though? Cause like, yeah, that's going to happen for... It shouldn't. The flight for me will go to the, I mean, I don't know what the orbital parameters for flight three are. I'm assuming they're the same, but I mean, I truly don't know. I expect so. Yeah, but I'm just saying, I don't know. So don't like, don't take that as a, oh, this is what's happening. I clearly have no, I'm making assumptions along with everyone else. So assuming it is the same, then okay, fine. So public says, or what am I trying to say? Media is like, oh, it crashed into the ocean, right? So then what about flight? There's eventually, it's not going to be a problem anymore, right? Flight, eventually it's going to work. So are these? We're incrementally, we, SpaceX is incrementally getting better and better at making this look like a production vehicle and not something that's been hammered together. If you think back to serial number one, that presentation back in, I think it was October, 2019, something like that, it might have been 2018 even. Serial number one, now by comparison, looks like it had been essentially hammered together. It doesn't look well formed through advanced welding techniques, et cetera. Compare that with the rocket that flew yesterday and the thing looks like it's just come off a production line. And you have to assume that that advance in we can do this better next time is going to continue. I think that's kind of the excitement. For me, at least, it's the exciting part is you get to watch, how many companies let you watch the design process of their product, right? Can you imagine if Apple did keynotes of like the initial iterations of iPhone and every time they had a breakthrough or like whatever, and then you just got to watch the whole process of them getting from A to B, right? Yeah, yes, but when pirates broke down, they didn't eat the tourists. I look forward to the day that where news can actually report on it correctly. I've seen news reports that it splashed down in the Pacific Ocean. That was the plan. That was the plan. When I was in school, there was an entire science part, the science division of these news organizations so they wouldn't make these stupid mistakes, right? And like, I mean, that's where Miles O'Brien came from, right? And so like they fired, like all of the major news organizations fired their science teams. And so this is what you end up with. You end up with just kind of this like not correct. I don't know. And it's interesting, I won't give, maybe we talk about this in post-show. We should talk about the instant media in post-show and like how it's weird where people will believe the things they want to believe. And then when the news does something that they know is wrong and they're like, oh no, that's not it. I'll ignore just this one thing, but everything else was true, but just this one thing I'm an expert in, this one thing they're wrong on and I know they're wrong, but everything else was true. It was like, well, why don't you question everything? Okay, this is a conversation for the post-show. Sorry, we're getting into it right too much. This was to be a happy fun show about starting. Okay, so let's talk, why don't we talk future of like humans in space, right? Cause we're gonna have, to Andy's point, we are gonna have flight three and it's, I believe it's gonna make, we were so close from orbit, we were so close, right? So like, I think, I have high, I'm excited for flight three, right? But then there's gonna be flight four and flight five and flight six. And eventually we're gonna go to the moon and then we're gonna go on to Mars. So with that in mind, what does, what excites you about the future of Starship beyond these test flights? Why don't we start with, so who is like, why don't we start with you if that's all right? What excites you about the future of all this stuff? I'm looking forward to the Clarus mission on Starship definitely, cause they're gonna go up to the first human test flight. That's gonna be the, we know they've got 99.99999% of the Kings worked out, got all the life support elements, toilets are working, ready to go further into space. To the moon and beyond. They're the guys that are gonna make sure, yes, this is working, right? So Tim and all the other lot who are going around the moon can have a safe flight, go and experience that thing that a handful of people have only done before. And then beyond that Mars is, they've got to work all that out, all the Kings first. And I'm looking forward to that first flight with Jared Isaacman and crew and see what's gonna happen there. But definitely it's going the right way. More people into space is definitely the answer, inspiring people to work in STEM and learn physics, mathematics, everything, even down on the ground with video editing, video processing and showing people everything that is happening is going to help people understand what is now going on and going to continue to happen in the future of space. Out of curiosity, are you a moon first or a Mars first person? I'm not really first witch first, but we've been to the moon. We know the moon, we can go back to the moon and get everything hunky-dory first. Get ready to move on to Mars. It's going to be a bit of a further travel. It's going to have gravity. It's got a little bit of atmosphere to deal with as well. We've also got refuelling on the planet and we've got getting off the planet as well. Because once we get there, we've got to get back off it again and then get back to Earth. Even just transferring people from different craft if needs be, if worse comes to worst. And they only want to use it for one landing, one takeoff and then even scrapping the vehicle at the cost of Starship.  We see this when they're testing them. Andy, how about you? Sorry, I'm going to have to duck out for a second. Sounds good. We won't go to you then. Wait, wait. Hang on. I can do this. I can do this. The chaos. The chaos. We have to do this. There we go. Oh, now we're squished funny. Ryan, how about you? Because it shows you. I'm just going to have to second everything.  He's a huge nerd. He's a huge nerd. He has loads of money. He does cool stuff. I think that's the best way to describe him. He wants to do the Polaris program. He wants the first human fright in Starship. I mean, he wants to be in it. And there is no way I cannot support what he wants to do. So his involvement in the future of the program to me is especially exciting. Of course, dear moon, how can you not be excited about dear moon? Let's get back to the moon and then on to Mars person because we have been there before, but we haven't been there for over 50 years and a lot has changed in the world in 50 years. The technology that we have now is far superior to the technology that we had 50 years ago. And the moon is definitely going to be a crucial stepping stone to getting to Mars because neither of the places right now we can live on. So if we can't live on the moon, then I don't know how we're meant to be able to live on Mars. That's just my opinion on it anyway. That's fair. They are different though, right? There are lessons to be learned, but some of those lessons are not transferable from moon to Mars or Mars to moon. They're not, but the moon is also a good place to practice on because it's a heck of a lot closer. You can get there in half a week compared to, you know, you have to wait for a proper transfer window to get to Mars. Sure. Makes sense. We also have joining us Jack. Welcome into the show. How about for you? What was your, we'll start kind of back at the beginning. What was your excite? Like what was your feeling for Flight 2? What was it for you like? What was like for you? Do I give you the like textbook answer or do I give you the honest answer? Honest answer. Give me the honest answer always. Dread? Lots of dread existential crises. Just sheer terror. I mean, we, we meaning NSF and myself specifically, but basically everybody at NSF really wanted to make Flight 2 better than Flight 1. And so I was trying a lot of different things. Sean was trying a lot of different things. He was trying to do more with remotes and more with the broadcast. And I mean, I'll be frank. A lot of it didn't work.    Just because I, you want these things to go right. You want to produce awesome imagery. You want to do this historic event justice. And so I guess I put a lot of pressure on myself, but it was awesome. I mean, don't get me wrong. Isn't that kind of the SpaceX way to do things, right? Like always, always improving, always better. And you know, like always one step, like you can never do the same thing. You have to continue to improve. Like there's no such thing as perfection, right? So like, right. Yeah. If we did the same thing as we did for flight one, I mean, yeah, it would have been fine, but that's not, that's not the way TM. Okay. Now post launch. Now that you're on that, not the way. This is not the way. Now that we're post launch. And all of that's because, you know, you're, you're right.   A drink and a drink. Yeah. Yeah. Now that you're on the other side of it, you've had at least like a day or so to kind of like.  You know, you work for, we'll call it 24 plus hours straight, but it's also very mentally taxing. And so you're just, you're hammering on your body really, really hard and you don't just recover the next day by sleeping in a whole bunch. It takes the better part of a week to fully get all the way back up to a hundred percent again. Like you can probably even hear it in my voice a little bit. Like it's just in my, my body is struggling. I assume it's the same for you. Having said that, now that you've had, you're kind of on the other side of it, right?  Now what do you think when you look back on it as a, without the dread and the terror and the like, now how do you feel it went? Um, for launches like this, I try and tell myself that if I can come out of it with one piece of inventory that I'm happy with, you know, despite setting up however many cameras, despite everything, then I'm happy. And I'm happy. So have you shared that image yet, that piece of imagery? Okay. So I was rolling a, a Canon R5 with a 600 RF prime with a 2X extender from about four miles away. So at launch, I was tight on the ship was my frame. Do you have a shot of it on your computer that you can share that you can screen share? Yeah. Send me a link or something to drop it all. But I've like just barely. There's a screen share button in the thing. Yeah. Okay. Hang on here. Open system. Oh, come on Mac. Oh, never mind. We're going to note out of this immediately. As soon as you said that, I think it has to close the browser and reopen it. It does. Yeah. All right. Anyways. Yeah. So where can people go to see it? Like your, your X, you posted on X, there's a space flight. Where can other people go to see it? So I posted like a frame grab on X. I haven't even posted like the video yet. So, yeah, I need to, I need to do that. But it was, it is on our live broadcast. They, we did do replays on our live broadcast of it. But yeah, I am floored. I mean 33 engines perfectly lit all the way up hill. It was so beautiful. Deluge worked so well that apparently they could open the pad three hours after like, I wish maybe my GoPro was still recording. I don't know, but I set up a GoPro just like off to the side to just kind of capture the event in terms of like what we were all doing. And we, you know, we're all hanging out after the launch. We're like dealing with footage and all of the whole nine yards.  I just got a road open text. And I like the back and forth between myself and the other people was like, the road's open. Yes. There's no one at the roadblock. No. The road's open. There's no one at the roadblock. No, like just because I couldn't believe it. I couldn't. I was like, it's, no, that is, that's not, no, that's, that's max. But that is an amazing image. Holy cow. World's largest shot diamond. Like what, um, it's insane. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm extremely happy. I think we couldn't really ask for that to go much better. It seemed like I got basically really, really, really close to successfully getting to the velocity that we wanted to ship to get to. And, uh, yeah, booster went boom, but who cares? It'll be a solvable problem. But yeah, just what an amazing launch. Perfect timing of the day. Perfect weather. Like you, you don't get, you don't get a lot of those. It's, it was a, it was a very special one. Starship flight two will forever be a very, very, very special one for me. Uh, let's see here if this is the, this may not be it. It's a, it's a full, it's a full, it's a full stack shot. Um, I think it's cropped, uh, portrait. Is that, that's not it? Um, wait, where? I don't see it. Oh, uh, that's it. Awesome. That's it. Awesome. That's a complete shot too. Look at those engines. It's so different than Falcon. It's so different than Falcon. My very favorite thing is that all 33 engines work together to form a single massive mock diamond. And then those mock diamonds then continue down the rest of the plume. It's just utterly insane. And if I was more, uh, if I was less exhausted, I would come up with some eloquent thing to say about how when we all work together collectively, we can all make a massive mock diamond for humanity. Whatever. You get it. Oh, that's the shirt. Mock diamonds for humanity. I love it. I love it. I really love it. Um, and I wore my mock diamond shirt. I'm still wearing the same shirt. I'm wearing dog hair. So, oh, actually. Is it dog time? We're waiting in suspense. Bacon time. Sorry, it's bacon. Oh, no. It's a dog time. Like I said, hi. I like, uh, I don't bite my face.  It's honestly, it's true. It's actually true. But yeah, that was just such an amazing launch. You can't really ask her much better than that.  Smokey's joined us. So let's head over to what was the launch like for you? What was your experience for? Well, I slept through it actually. I woke up. You too? Come on. I woke up in two minutes after Rudd. And then I watched the replay through Tim Dodd. So I just, just scrolled back about 30 minutes and just watched it as if it was live. And it was, it was amazing watching something that big actually get off the pad. I'm old enough that I grew up on Bill Nye the science guy. So I've, I've seen the episodes where they have all the stock footage of the rockets exploding in the early space program and just set to funny music. So I'm expecting something like that. Cause it's the second time this booster has flown, but to see it actually go up was, well, holy crap, it actually worked. What, what is, what is your view of the future now that you've seen this thing lumber off? It does kind of lump it. It, it, it's actually moving faster than it looks because it's so big. Yeah. Cause it doesn't actually lumber. It's just, it's just huge. Yeah. It's, it's like putting your foot to the floor in a drag or it's just steadily accelerating upward. But to the outside viewer, it doesn't look that way. As far as the future goes, I'm going to have to quote Yogi Berra. You know, it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future. But, um, it does feel like it's getting a little closer. This idea of actually having people permanently on the moon and maybe using that as a stepping stone to, uh, was it a, was it an Aldrin Cycler that the vehicle that goes between Earth and Mars? Is it an Aldrin Cycler? Yeah. Maybe we could have one of those very much like, uh, Hermes from the Martian or something else that we haven't thought of yet. I'm, it's, it's opening doors that I didn't know were actually possible yet. Uh, let's go to, um, let's go to Jack. Your vision of the future. My vision of the future, that's a really big question. I mean, I want to get to a point where this is all routine, which is wild because our job is to cover the stuff. And if it's that routine, then, you know, will people still care? Will we still, will we be putting ourselves out of a job? Um, It really is. Look at Starlink, uh, launches, like look at the viewership on those. Like, yeah, it's true. They're routine at this point. Yeah, that's true. Um, so really, I just hope that we can see more of these things launch. I want to go back to the moon. I want to like get a meaningful way. I want to go to Mars. I want to launch massive science payloads into earth orbit and to every single planetary body and then some, like I always say this on stream, like the human lifespan is well fully short and I want to see as much knowledge gathered in my lifetime selfishly because I want to know things, um, as possible. And so this system, I hope will unlock just insane knowledge and, and we'll learn as much cool things in our lifetimes as possible. That's the brightest vision for the future that I could ask for. I love the phrase back to the moon in a meaningful way because it's not just going back to the moon. We've already done that, but going back in a meaningful way, that's incredible. That's powerful. Yeah, I mean, like let's put a telescope on the far side. Let's put a propellant depot there so you don't have to fuel up starship in earth orbit. Let's, like, let's just do all the things, dang it. Like, let's do it. We've been, we've been waiting. We've been waiting so long. We went to the moon in the 60s and it's just like, where's my flying car? But replace flying car with, like, actually cool future. I'm, I'm tired of living in a burnt out dystopian husk and, and dreading the impending doom of climate change and like, let's have a nice morning that we can all enjoy and look at and and be proud of humanity for doing and be excited about tomorrow for like that. I don't know. It's just, yeah. Words, words are hard. Yeah. Would you say it's been a long road getting from there to here? Yeah. Yes. Those of you who know you know. We know the Star Trek fan in this particular group. Smokey Stopper. I don't remember the line right after that. I don't remember the line right after that. You know, I think that was the first Star Trek series to have lyrics in the opening theme. Wasn't it? Yeah. It was technically, technically the very first Star Trek theme. Gene Roddenberry actually wrote lyrics for it. They never aired. Yeah. I was to say they never made a difference. That's different. Well, I think actually a lot of themes. Okay. Well, okay. Let's let's put themes into the post show because like, yeah, absolutely. Awesome. And then I don't know if we asked you, Smokey, did I ask Moon or Mars first for you? I've lost track of it. I don't think so. I would love to see Mars first just because that means that I'll get to be alive to see it. But I think practically Moon has to come first. It's a lot closer. It's a lot easier. It's a lot less expensive. And Jack, I don't think I asked you either Moon first or Mars first. I don't care. Let's just go. Let's just go. I mean, that's fair. That's fair. Like, yeah, I would love to go to Mars. Like the moon seems like a really good place to practice a lot of things that you need on Mars. And like, I don't care. Let's just go. Let's just fricking go. All right. We've got like, yeah, Jared's excited. We've only got about 10 minutes left in the show. So I want to take those last 10 minutes and do predictions for flight three. And somebody, I don't have the, I don't have the ability to write these predictions down. So if someone could take notes and send them to me, I want to get a spreadsheet going of all the different predictions because I think this is fun. So Jared, are you taking the notes or what was that? Are you muted? You are muted just so you know.  When do you think is, what do you think flight three is going to fly? So I think flight three is going to fly probably, I would say late January, early February, sometime around then. I feel like you got to take time. You really need to take the time to digest the data. It's important to understand failure. It's also incredibly important to understand success. And now that you have a flight that is both successful and has things that didn't work in it, you got to deal with both now. You don't got to deal with one, which was IFT one, which was not great to say the least on many, many things. Yes, so they will. The FAA is going to have to come in. I don't think it is going to be as long an investigation this time because I think, I think that first investigation was sort of teething with it and there were some things with that. Also, the fact that the FTS actually, so far it appears the FTS worked as it's supposed to. Unlike last time, which was a very big deal, that the FTS didn't activate for minutes. So yeah, I think we're good on that front. I think investigation should be fast. I don't know if the Fish and Wildlife Services comes into play again here. I don't think so, right? Please go ahead, no. But yeah, I think at this point, it is going to be late January, early February. I see Starship making it. I'm going to do this again where I'm going to say that I think it's going to make it to Hawaii, but I don't think it's going to make it through reentry simply because you've got to get the tiles right. That is something for reentry. If you want to do reentry right, you can have minimum tile damage for that. Was there tile damage on flight too? Oh, yeah. Oh, God. I wasn't paying attention that much. Yeah, there were chunks the size of people with missing tiles on it, scattered all over the vehicle. I have a question, though. The airframe of Starship is not aluminum, right? It's steel, so I know missing tiles bad, but especially for a orbital velocity, it's not coming back from the new moon, it's not coming back from Mars. So does missing tiles really matter that much if it's a flight profile, like we've seen planned for flight one and flight two, where it'll get to an almost orbital trajectory and then come in? Steels has a much higher temperature until it starts to get plastic deformation. Can you not chew on my hand, please? I checked with the committee. Sorry, no, I'm chewing on your hand. But yeah, I don't know. Sorry, I digress. But I do wonder if we get to a Starship reentering with a bunch of tiles missing, but it's not a super fast velocity, like does it survive? It's a question for someone smarter than me, but I'm asking you. I was going to say the same thing for me, Jack. I'll defer to Dutta, because Dutta, I can see in your eyes you have words to say. I brought him in. But I would imagine there's a lot to be done. So with missing tiles, obviously you don't want big groups. Yeah, as Ekka is saying, single tile loss should be survivable, but a bunch in one area, not likely, because of the transfer of thermal loads into that there, and the eventual plasticity of metal, if you can even think about metal being that way, because it gets so hot. But also, there's something to be said too about the airflow, or the flow of plasma across the vehicle. You want that to be nice and smooth. You don't want to disturb it. We talked often about how they did some of the tiles a little bit off on the shuttle during some of the early missions in order to actually measure what that displacement of the tiles would do and just how much more load there was than they were expecting. So we'll have to see. John, why don't we go to you. When do you think? When orbit? When orbit. Well, technically, we've already touched orbit, but to actually go full circle, maybe end of next year. So flight test free, make it Hawaii sub-orbital. Maybe the one after that, same again, make sure everything's working right, and then go for the full orbit, full speed. Make sure all the heat tiles and everything is staying on. Maybe add a few extra pins to the tiles instead of just having three. Maybe even making the tiles bigger might help. More surface area and more to attach to. But yeah, I think full orbit, end of next year I think they'll hit. All right, how about when flight three? FAA do their investigation early next year, maybe February, maybe March, because it's going to be over winter, Christmas, everyone's going to be on holiday. Everyone's going to want to do everything, then they can hit full speed, beginning of next year, and February I think would be the time to do IFT, the flight test free. I can't get my letters right today. Annie, how about you? When flight three? I'm going to say around about Easter time. I think anything sooner is still sounds a little bit optimistic. And I think there will be delays that we haven't identified yet as we've had with IFT too. Going back to Mars or Moon first. Oh yes, I missed that on you. I'm sorry, yeah. No, sorry, I had a family phone call. I would be tempted to say Apollo 8 or Apollo 9 first. In the end, does it matter? So the goal is to get to Mars. Yes, sustainably. But if we get to the vicinity of Mars but don't land, or we go to the Moon and test stuff out, but they equally contribute to a safe landing and return from Mars, I don't necessarily matter what order they occur in. So the answer is yes, just do them all. Yes, very much so. All right. Let's head over to Jack. How about you? When flight three? When fly? You know, I'm going to say February and I don't know if that's hopelessly optimistic or what, but man, booster 10 and ship 28 are hanging out and seemingly really close to being ready to static fire. So if the pad truly is not that damaged, and again, they open the road three hours later, which is insane. And I can't stress how insane that is. The last flight, the road opened like three days later. Three days, three hours. Certain someone loves to use the phrase order of magnitude, so that is an order of magnitude. But yeah, it's just utterly crazy. So if the pad's not that damaged and they have vehicles ready to go, I won't be shocked if we see static fires of booster and ship in December. That wouldn't shock me. So I'm going to say February and I hope that that is the case because I just want to see it again. I had the same thing after SLS launched. SLS launched and I was like that was awesome! Now I'm sad I have to wait a million years for the next one. At least Starship isn't doing that. Seven months between flights, not bad at all. Now let's make it three months. Yeah, it's compressing. Right, and it's going to have to because we have to launch enough ships to refuel for basically every application except for satellite deployment and low-earth orbit. We need to get to a point where these things are launchable fast. I'm going to say February. February. All right, Smokey. I just tweeted the video by the way. You should give everyone your Twitter. It's The Jack Buyer. And if you want, I just hit 10,000 followers on Instagram which has been a long time coming. So I'm NeonHeatDisease on Instagram. All one word. It's a King Crimson reference. That's a great name. That is a great name. So IFC3 I'm kind of split between what Jared and Jack said. I think if everything went perfectly no problems. The FAA came back and said everything worked fine. You're good to go. It would probably be late January at the best. But considering space flight, space flight as hard as a brand new rocket, there are always going to be problems. It's going to slide to the right. I would guess probably late February, mid-March at the earliest possible opportunity. That's my guess. You want to know what's interesting is space flight one. Everyone was like, oh, that's the only flight for this year. They nuked the pad. They can't go again this year. There's no possible way this is happening in 2023. SpaceX is going maybe in 2024. And here we are in 2023. And now everyone's like, oh, yeah, no, it's like a month away. It is indeed because of the damage to the pad. I was one of the doubters. I was one of the doubters. I was convinced that the damage to the pad because of how much it dug out and it started letting seawater in, that it was going to cause additional structural problems that they would have to address. But they got in there and fixed it really fast. All right, Ryan, how about you? When do you think flight three? I'm going to give you a whole timeline here. Oh! So you understand how it works out in my head. I ain't doing timelines. You make it simple. So... In my opinion, we don't need, you know, entirely new launch pad infrastructure this time.  Maybe refurbish a couple pipes here and there maybe. But, you know, we don't need an entirely new steel flare deflector system, right? So I think that means the FAA mishap report will be completed quicker. At least that's what I'm hoping. So I think a realistic timeline, in my opinion, would be December for the first static fire test of Ship and Booster, Ship 28 and Booster 10. January, late January, early February for the wrapping up of that FAA mishap report, which SpaceX will identify all the things, whether or not they're going to fix them. And then mid-late February to March for the first actual launch attempt for Flight 3. But I think the entire mishap report should be wrapped up much quicker than it was for Flight 1, considering how much less damage the Booster actually did to the pad and surrounding infrastructure. Everything that went wrong with this flight happened, like, many minutes into flight. The Booster exploded after stage separation, the ship exploded just before Seaco, so there shouldn't be ground-based investigations that need to take place, because there wasn't anything that went wrong on the ground. So what's the final, final answer, then? The final answer is first attempt around mid-to-late February or early March. That sort of amount. I don't know. Sorry. I can hear Jets. I got it. A typical day at Starbase. All right. Awesome. All right. Is this the awkward end of the show? Is that what's going on now? It must be. It feels like we're wrapping up. It's time to go to the member show. I think hopefully everyone had fun with the call-in show. I enjoyed it. I love bringing in members of the space community to just nerd out over space and just give our opinions. I would love to do this more often if you guys want to call in. It's pretty cool that I'll thank you all for actually calling in. Not a lot of people actually like to have their voice and video up in the live stream and it was really amazing for all of you. Thank you very much for coming in. I hope we can do this more often. I hope more of our members that tomorrow are willing to join in on the show live. I think it's pretty awesome. Hopefully everyone can hear me. Give me a thumbs up if you can still hear me. Thank you to all of our members who helped to make these shows happen. We're going to be going into our member show after this. Any member level. Be it one of the names you see on the screen here or there's also a system support level. Any member level is eligible to watch the post-show in just a few minutes. The link for that show is in the description. We've also just tweeted it out about like 10 minutes ago or so.  It's similar to this but not necessarily space based. It's just after you've got a launch you want to just kind of decompress. It's like the post-launch show decompression. It's just a place to go. Again, thank you to everyone who joined in on this episode. I almost didn't make it today because I'm just so exhausted and just mentally spent but I really wanted to share these moments with you guys. I hope you had a lot of fun. So on that note, thank you all for showing up. I hope you enjoyed today's show and we will see you next week.


Those human beings in your market are going to buy or sell something at some point. This is what I believe. I'm sharing that with you for nothing.  I'm a little different with how I, you know, operate and build my business. A lot of coaches are, you know, number one, they charge. So that's a lot, that's complete opposite right there. And secondly, a lot of the strategies out there are more geared towards, you know, trying to get a deal done and trying to figure out if someone wants to sell or wants to buy. And I'm actually quite opposite of that. I just, I don't want to know what they don't want to do. I don't want to know if they, you know, necessarily don't want to buy or sell right now. I just want to know what I could do to help them. Right. And so I just want to build that relationship because the fact is that those human beings in your market are going to buy or sell something at some point. Right. So that's what we need to understand is that closings happen every day.  You know, it's natural for the market to fluctuate. You know, you're going to have less transactions here or there, less new listings, less pending, more listings, more pending, more closing deals. It's going to fluctuate. It's going to go up and down. That is completely natural. The trick is to realize that it never goes to zero. And the other trick is to not freak out when there is a huge shift and there's a huge shock in the market like we just had. You know, it's a scary moment when something happens, nobody was expecting and the economy shuts down. But the trick is to keep calm for those moments and realize, you know, the virus may be killing a small fraction of people, but it's not, you know, demolishing real estate. Buildings are still there. Houses are still being built. People are still buying and selling. And I know right now, since I don't know, maybe since around May 1st or so, there's been a nice surge in the market too. I'm sure you guys have witnessed that and are experiencing that. You know, it's incredible. You know, hey, what do I think? I think we're going to end up with a really nice year, a nice consistent year. There may be a few scary moments. We may have some more scary moments. You know, a lot of people are trying to debate with all the forbearances, might lead to foreclosures. I don't think so. I think the banks are going to work with all those people long term. And, you know, unemployment, you know, all time highs going to stay up in double digits for the longest ever and stuff like that.  That's got to affect the real estate market. The thing is, guys, is it doesn't matter, right? What's really cool about the market, okay, is that it's 100% set up for every single agent to win big. Right? It's set up. And the reason it's set up is because a couple of things. One, business is 100% unlimited for every agent. You can't do all the deals that are available to just you. Okay? And when I think of market share and I think of business, I think how many relationships can I, you know, create and maintain? I don't think about how many listings I have or how many closings I did this year compared to the rest of the market. I think about the market in terms of population, let's just say. You know, population in Nashville, okay, boom. Can you talk to every single one of those people and see what you can do to help them? Never in a million years. So you can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week and never even scratch the surface. Right? So it's quite incredible. The second thing is, is that as the market even flows, the price will adjust to your benefit. If something really bad happens, the price adjusts so that buyers continue to buy. It's a supply and demand thing. The price will adjust so that transactions continue to happen. What does that tell you? Transactions continue to happen. So I want you to know that you're in a really super secure industry. Technology has no chance at this point of taking us over. It's only enhancing our abilities. You know, technology has dramatically increased the speed and the time that you can see success. I have a guy in my coaching program that did 100 deals in his first year. I've been doing 100 deals a year since 2014 as a single agent. I'm still on track to do that this year, even with everything going on. But it took me 12 years or so to hit that 100 deals. Of course, I went through the crash and lost everything. But this guy did it in the first year. Why? Because he listened to exactly what I said and he understood my little theory on compressing time with technology. Using today's technology to compress time that took me to do things when I first started, when we didn't have the technology that we have today. It's quite incredible.


Hey guys, we're here in Mexico where preparations are in full swing for the massive Day of the Dead celebration. We're here checking out the real life party that's inspired Disney's massive new animation, Cocoa. So Adrian, we're here in San Miguel de Allende for Day of the Dead. Everyone's preparing for the celebration. Yes, we're here right outside the market right now. It's getting very busy. You can buy all sorts of stuff. I was wondering if you could talk us through some of the things here that are similar to what are in the film. Well, in the film, you'll see that Miguel puts an ofrenda to their loved ones. It's like an altar. And on the altar, you want to put stuff that they loved in life because they're coming on a long journey from the land of the dead to provide for the family that's coming back. You'll see a lot of these beautiful marigold flowers. That's a really important flower for the Day of the Dead. So it's really colorful. It's really energetic. And if you keep their stories alive, if you keep them close to your hearts, the connection is maintained and it lives on forever. Awesome. Well, should we go inside and take a look? I'd love to. Let's do it. Preparations are well underway for the Day of the Dead celebration here in Mexico. We're here at school to find out how the kids prepare for it. Excited guys? So it's the Day of the Dead here in the school and all the children are dressed up in their traditional Day of the Dead costumes. They've made ofrendas and they've made arts and crafts. On our way to a cemetery and we're going to learn all about the real life of Mexican customs. There are a lot of elements, both visually, musically, that are based in Mexico. Some of them that you might recognize from the tradition are the ofrenda, this altar that you put up to honor the person that you're remembering. This place behind us is called Guanajuato and it's one of the places that inspired the look of cocoa and you can see from all the brightly colored houses. Now we're going to have a go at building our own ofrenda which is basically a traditional Mexican altar that you build for Day of the Dead and you decorate it with flowers and food and candles and photos and as many marigold petals as you can get your hands on. The path of marigold petals, that's a real thing that we saw when we visited all these different towns but it's the type of thing that can inspire a moment like Miguel crossing this beautiful marigold bridge to reconnect with his ancestors. Preparations, we're here in the town square and everyone is ready to celebrate Day of the Dead. All the locals are here, tourists are here, everyone's celebrating together, let's go and join the party. So we've seen all the colorful buildings, we've joined in with the Day of the Dead celebrations and we've even seen our own mariachi band. Now I think it's time to go and watch the film. See you at cinema.


It's Wednesday to 11 o'clock. It's September the 8th, 2021. I'm Tim Appichelle, your host, and I'd like to welcome you to What Now America? Today's title is Stop Texas Abortion Law, Expand the Supreme Court. You know, last week we had going to effect Texas's abortion law, the new law, the law that says that women only have six months to know that they're pregnant and perform the abortion. Law that says we're gonna incentivize, we're gonna give a bounty to private citizens to sniff out rat and spy and basically prosecute anyone that's aided and abetted a woman to have an abortion in Texas. But the most grievous part of this new law is the fact that women will be forced as if it were the dark ages, the middle ages, force a woman to have a child when she's been raped or as equally as bad is pregnant as a result of incest. And for those that don't know what the word incest means, it means by a family member. You know, Governor Abbott was asked about this question about the provision of law about a woman being raped and or by a pregnant by a result of incest. And he said, well, you know, rapes a lot, rapes are crying and we're gonna do everything in Texas to get the would be rapers off the street. We're gonna put them behind bars. Well, no, if you think about that question for a moment, doesn't that mean you have to find out who the rapist is, prosecute them and jail them before they committed a crime? Governor Abbott, only in Texas. And with that, I go to my guests. Good morning, everyone. Today we have Jay Fiedel and we have Winston Welch joining us on What Now America? Good morning. Good morning. Jay, the title of this show is Stop Texas Abortion Law, Expand the Supreme Court. But before we get to that topic of the title, you know, there's so many different ways that this law could be challenged. I mean, it could be challenged by a lower court ruling. It could be challenged and maybe some kind of halted by the Department of Justice for not implementing current Roe v. Wade law that's been in the books for 50 years. It could be basically blunted by new legislation in Congress. There's so many different ways of trying to tackle this new abuse of law. What do you see as the most viable way to try to blunt it and or the most permanent way to stop this new law in Texas? Well, Department of Justice threatened to take criminal proceeding against anybody who became a vigilante on the basis that that was a violation of a statute passed by Congress in 1871. I'm not sure if that's going to work. I'm not sure that's going to work, but that's what they've said a couple of days ago. But what happened yesterday was even more remarkable. Remarkable, gentlemen, remarkable. So there's a bar in Massachusetts I guess it's near Harvard. And it's called Grinnell's Den. Grinnell's Den has been there 50 years. And Grinnell was originally a restaurant. But then they decided to be a bar in the early 70s, I guess. And they applied for a liquor license. And there was a church immediately behind them or blocked behind them that opposed the liquor license. Now, that opposition in most states would be just one of many. But in the state of Massachusetts, the law said that a church, specifically, a church could not only object, it could stop the application for a legal license. All it had to do was say no. Its decision was binding. And when you think about it, that is exactly the same situation as we have in Texas. Any person can make the decision that there was a violation of the Texas law, that there was a illegal abortion, if you will, and take Madison to his own hands and become a vigilante. It's the same thing here with the church, maybe even worse. The church could decide that it was not a good idea to have a bar and make a decision and act. The discretion of the state was essentially delegated to the church. And this case went to the Supreme Court and guess who handled it on behalf of Grinnell Sudden? It was Lawrence Tribe, Lawrence Tribe, never him out of Harvard, the constitutional lawyer. And he won in a decision of eight to one, eight to one. And that president had never been reversed, it's still the law. And it stands for a number of things. Number one is the Supreme Court we have today. It ain't no Supreme Court like there was then. And they didn't do their homework. All those clerks that we pay all that money to, they didn't find this case. In Lawrence Tribe's view of it, and he wrote an op-ed and appeared on national media, this was not rocket science, this was reported in the Supreme Court report, easy to find. And it is dead on. You can't delegate the powers of the state to vigilantes. So, and I have some optimism about that. There are possibilities to distinguish that case, of course, but the Supreme Court is gonna have trouble wrestling with A, the case, and B, the fact they never cited the case or referred to it in any way, even though it is very close on precedent. Are they obligated to? I don't know. But I think that the legal community is saying, what happened here? Here's a case that was so close that it addresses the same issue. Constitutional interpretation case, and they didn't talk about it. It really sounds like they didn't know about it. They didn't know about it. They didn't do their homework about it. What kind of a Supreme Court do we have here anywhere? This is likely to come up in a substantive evaluation review of that Texas statute. So I hold some optimism up on that. I'm Rachel Maddow, the one who revealed it nationally on media, and you gotta give her credit for being perspicacious. And you gotta give Lawrence Tribe credit for handling the case first place and renewing his comments about it now. So, but the answer is, we're in terrible shape on Roe v. Wade because you know what the Supreme Court wants to do. They still hold the sixth to three majority, and they're, you know, they're, or even a five to four, you know, take Roberts out. So we have a problem with Roe v. Wade, and it's the top of the iceberg in terms of the Supreme Court's ability to muck things up. They've been mucking things up for a while, and there's no surprise here, and they'll do it again and again.  All of Biden's agenda is somehow stuck and it shows. So bottom line is Congress is, you know, also ineffectual. The executive is made ineffectual by the filibuster and other considerations and the fact that he doesn't hold a real healthy majority. So where are we? Do we have any branch of government, you know, left? And this is all in the face of the election of 2022. Okay, thank you, Jay. Hey, Winston, I'm gonna stay on the same question. You know, there's, like I said, there's all sorts of angles to attack this new law, but I think the biggest, the most permanent one would be for Joe Biden to look at the possibility of expanding the number of seats on the bench of the Supreme Court. Does this Texas law give new life to those discussions that took place just before the election? Well, it seems to be a sort of make your own rules, make your own constitution time in America now. So I suppose he could, but he's not going to. The country's so divided, so fractured. So, and you're right, Jay. I think the, you know, an abortion, when you talk about Roevers' way, I mean, from all I can understand, the court seemed to have got ahead of itself when the original ruling was made years ago. And the public has been divided about it, although majorities are in, you know, in favor of a woman's right to have an abortion. There has been always a significant minority that has said otherwise. But if you really break it down, you know, there's, and look at it, there's some, a lot of nuances in there, but this one in Texas, where I think even the most die-hard folks are, I won't say that, but most people, even if they're against almost all abortion, they would have some cut out for rape, incest, and the life of a woman. You would think that that would have made it in there just as a pro forma thing. I think the Supreme Court not taking this up, you know, they don't have an army. They don't have anything except the goodwill of the public and that the public trusts them to make the right decisions and to step in and say, hey, you know, we can't really be having this vigilante justice because what's next is California. You're gonna propose a law that we have to, you have to give up all your guns and imagine something like that. I mean, what other rights might be infringed on here? So there's a lot that's at stake here in this. It's a complicated issue. It's a very emotional and passionate issue for most people that have an opinion on it. But, you know, the solid majorities of Americans do believe that a woman has a right to control her body and have an abortion. And that may vary as to within means, but like I said, there's a big portion who have never gone along with Roe vs. Wade. And I think that that, especially in these states, has always been of a high appeal. So this is how this thing flew through so easily. And it's really amazing in this day, but as I predicted a year ago, Roe vs. Wade is out the window. It's going. So at this point, it's gonna be how do the states adjust? How do we adjust as a nation? How do we prevent this sort of absence of rule of law as we understand it from taking hold? But my prediction would be that you're going to end up with patch quilt of different abortion laws across the nation that are sort of reflective of the communities in which they take place. Now you have a state of Texas where you have how many tens of millions of people living there that obviously this reflect half of those folks, but hey, they got through the voting rights, evisceration law, they got through gun control. There is no more gun control in Texas. You can go off the street and buy a gun without any background check now. The laws that are being pushed through, like you said, what branch of government is functioning? I don't know. We have a great nation capable of doing great things, but right now it looks like the house is on fire. Let me follow up on something. Number, I'm gonna give you three points and I'm starting to do it and I hope I don't confuse you on this. But isn't it one, just as an observation, isn't it interesting that as of yesterday, Mexico just decriminalized abortion? Number one. So how convenient would that be for someone just to cross the border and obtain an abortion in Mexico? What does this do? I mean, if other states replicate the exact law that Texas just asked and now is implemented, particularly regarding the rape and incest provision of this new law, what does that say to the GOP move forward for the 22 election? I mean, isn't this so extreme and so onerous and torturous to women that even women who supported reversing Roe v. Wade but having the rape provision in it, that's even a bridge too far for those women. What does this say, has the GOP, if they replicate all these in all of the red states, have they put themselves in a corner and basically sealed their fate for the 2022 election? Winston. You know, I think even polls inside of die hard, I would call it formerly known as Republicans or those that identify as Republican, women do support those basic protections, even if they're generally anti-abortion. So I think you've got these Republican governors out there that are just trying harder to be Trump than Trump, whether it's in Florida or Texas or Kristi Nome, whoever's just trying to make a stab at the future, they may very well come back and see, you see that DeSantis' performance in Florida, he's underwater there. I think Abbott is the same way that they've realized that this may be too far, not just this, it's everything, it's everything. This is just sort of just sprung upon us, but there's a lot more coming down the pike and it's just something that we gotta see. Jay, we'll go to you to the same question, has the GOP painted themselves in a corner and the other red states copy word for word this law, will they paint themselves in a corner for the 2022 election? No, to answer, no. No. There's a lot of time left, there's a lot of issues yet, there's a lot of Republican wins happening right now. I don't think so, but I do have some thoughts based on discussion so far and that's this. There seems to be chaos, countries and chaos, I think you'll agree. And it's more that way every day. And you say, is this the Republican strategy to create chaos? What kind of a strategy is that? It's stupid, but there is one person who benefits by this. There is one person who we know does have a strategy of chaos and that's Vladimir Putin. If you guys watched 60 Minutes Last Sunday, they did a segment, I think it was something they did before about retired KGB officers living in this country who described the ascendancy of the internet research agency and Vladimir Putin's early days and current days on how you create chaos and how you divide people. And one of the most chilling points of that segment was a set of competing demonstrations in a southern city, I think it might have been Atlanta, now, now over something that you really can't get too excited about. It was masks, I think, maybe vaccines, I think it was masks. And one side of the street, these people were carrying signs and shaking their fists. They were vibrating with anger. They were spitting anger. The other side of the street, the same thing. These people were so incredibly angry over an issue which was really not that emotional. Okay? Okay, so then come to find our intelligence agencies reported that both sides of the street were fomented by the intelligence research agency that sent out social media creating each of the demonstrations and fomenting all of that anger and hatred. And so you can take a point of, that's the style of it. You can take a point of vulnerability and you can work that point in this country. And there were a lot of people who go along with it and they fall on one side or the other. Vladimir Putin is doing that for a long time. And certainly one of the biggest points is Roe v. Wade. But if he could do it with masks, you know, last week in Atlanta, then he easily could do it with a religious type division, Roe v. Wade. So I think Roe v. Wade is dead, but I think the divisiveness is just happening. And I think we have to watch everything in that context. It's not something that just happened. Do our security agencies have a obligation to let us know that so that the media can report on it and so that we not fall on those traps? They did, it did, but maybe not enough.  What is the media going to report about now? So during Afghanistan, everything else is forced off the stage. The only oxygen goes to Afghanistan. And, you know, then there'll be COVID one week. It's like this one new story a week that is, you know, prevails and it's very hard to let the intelligence guys in and have them explain the realities. And bottom line too is that the, we have a generation of quote American citizens and the quote who were not educated and don't care to be educated. They're looking at social media. They're not getting enough information and the right information. They've been separated from the right information. So what we have is Vladimir Putin running our sensibilities, running these divisive things. And the country is in chaos and he can turn it any way he wants and he has done that in other countries in the past. So I think this is something that the people and us guys here on, you know, what now America should look at. Okay. Thank you, Jay. Hey, switching gears. Winston, President Biden went to the states of New Jersey and New York yesterday and he spoke at length about the damage that the flooding that has occurred. And I think quite well he tied it into two things. One was that the reality of climate change is here and now and we may be past the point of no return on some of these storms that we're going to experience year after year. But also he, I thought he did a fairly good job of tying that into the 3.5 or excuse me, the $1 trillion infrastructure bill and stating, you know, the build back better concept. Did you notice that? And two is, was he effective? And will he, did he hit the mark on those points? Well, you know, the oxygens being sucked out of the room for Joe Biden right now. He, it doesn't matter which way he turns. It just gets worse all around him. And he's a victim of circumstance in all of this. He's not causing any of this. He didn't cause climate change. He's not, he's like the West is on fire. The East is flooding. You know, the South is flooded. You've got, you know, the Texas just every, every which way you, you've got COVID absolutely crazy. Even to the point we're here in Hawaii where the governor signed an order and Idaho, they moved to crisis care or what do they call it? Where there's, there's Rationing, they're rationing here. I would rationing is a euphemism. They're coming in and they're saying, okay, you go to the left and you go to the right. And basically that's what they're, they're having to do because there's one nurse for six ICU patients.  They're just not doing it. It's dangerous for the staff and they don't have a staff. Oh, and wherever Joe, infrastructure, Jay, when you were talking, what the rattling off those things, voting rights infrastructure, you might as well have been speaking Greek honestly because the country is just so on fire. You don't know which way to turn. You just want to grab the kids and the pets and the birth certificates and get out of the house. But you know, where are you going to go? It doesn't matter. And it is, and all of it is like the bellows on social media and media itself. It's like a bellows on every single issue. So that they're, even if you agree on, on climate change, what you're not going to agree on gun rights or abortion or an infrastructure bill, people don't even know what that means. Joe Manchin, I was reading the other day, why is he hanging this up? There was an article that says something that he has profited out of the coal industry. So again, maybe we need to just say, if you just off to the side of infrastructure, literally a golden toilet for everybody in West Virginia. As a nation, we need to just completely buy every person in West Virginia, a nice house, give them a subsidy so that he can vote the way that he needs to vote. If he's not voting in the interest of, if there's any self-interest there that he has that is preventing him from doing that. And Kirsten's system from, I don't know what, what she's thinking either, but we desperately need so many of these things. If the United States doesn't lead on climate change as we're moving into, you know, this meeting that's happening, I think it's in Scotland coming up here. The rest of the world's just gonna say, what are you even talking about?  You're not even making the right noises. So, you know, we need to regain that. We need to regain our position to world leadership. I thought there was an interesting comic in the, not comic editorial cartoon where they had the US leaving Afghanistan and on one side was Taiwan, on the other side was South Korea and they were both like sweating bullets, right? And I think the same could be said of Ukraine or whatnot. So it may not just be the Russians, there may be others that are very strong vested interest in history divided. But on the bright side of things, as Kennedy Fair pointed yesterday. I'm leaning forward. I'm leaning forward because I wanna hear this very carefully, great D-2. There's a silver lining to it all day. And you know, it's so depressing. I don't know, this week is like hard, it's hard. You know, our optimist by the name of Winston Welch has left the building. I don't know where he went, but he'll be back. I know for a fact, he'll be back. Thank you, Winston. I gotta, I'm gonna go to Jay with the exact same question. Jay, to Winston's point, is climate change pretty much off the table? No one cares, it's being drowned out by all the other calamities that are taking place in this country. Does Biden get some traction in Scotland as he tries to address on a worldwide basis, the reduction of carbon in our atmosphere and try to do something about global warming, climate change, what do you think? The answer is yes. Can you throw me a lifeline here? Can you help me out here and expand that answer? Just a wee bit. The answer is yes, it's off the table. There are so many raw meat stories and social media tweets that come through that take all the oxygen out of everything and climate change can wait. I mean, that's been the perception of the scientific community, as you know from our movie that we made recently, that's how they feel about it and they're right. Climate change is the last thing anybody thinks about. Let me throw out a statistic. It's estimated that one third of all Americans have been adversely impacted by some kind of disaster event that directly correlates to our warming planet. Doesn't that make, doesn't that change things? If you've been personally affected?  It's hard to bring that all together and say, hey, this is climate change and here's the action we need to take right now. It just doesn't come down that way. So here's a wildfire, here's a flood, here's a drought, here's a storm and on and on. But the public conversation does not seem to bring those points together into a need for governmental action. So I think the average person is just an observer, a wallflower, watching all of this, hey, it didn't happen in my neighborhood, I don't shop here, you know? This is a problem. But it is happening in their neighborhood. It is happening there. That was for some of them, some of them, not all of them. There's a lot of people in this country that the wildfires haven't reached, they don't care. So I mean, as it gets worse, Tim, I would say my answer will change. As the wildfire is spreading, as the droughts and the floods and the storms have more of an effect, people will be more conscious of it. But their first response is to respond. Their first response is to get the water out of the street in front of their house, to rebuild their house, to get power and water and sewage and have their community start up again. They're not thinking about global issues. They're thinking about, when will the tap work again? So, and that's the process that happens. That's the process that's happening now. And that's not the process that's happening in Congress. If you thought that somebody out there was listening to Biden in Congress or the Supreme Court or the state legislators, legislators, stop thinking that. They're really not doing much at all. And I think that means that the species in general is failing as against the most existential threat of all of them. Okay. I've just said I'm gonna change the name of this show. What now America to what now America hyphen, nothing. All right, Winston, we run out of time. Your last thoughts and comments about what's happened this week. And you feel free to talk about any of the calamities that we've touched upon here on the show today. Thoughts and comments, please. So basically, if you're watching this show right now, I just want you to know you are inside of a dream. You did take the blue pill. You didn't take the red pill. You will wake up from this at some time and you realize it was a bad dream. Sadly, for those of you who did, who took the red pill, it's not a dream. It's reality. It doesn't matter which way you point. At this point, we can't think about all, we can't think about all the big things, but you're gonna get overwhelmed and swamp yourself. Do what you can do. What you can do is wear your mask, get vaccinated. You can talk to your neighbor who isn't vaccinated on a human level. You can volunteer at your food bank. You can plant a tree. You can do what you can do. We all had this one right here if you have a certain age, right? You have a special mark there, Tim. The youngins don't have it. You know why? Because it worked. That's why the youngins don't have it. Explain it because you've implied something that they may not be aware of. Explain your answer there. We have this of a certain age. If you have a certain age, you got a smallpox mark. And as the comic said, mommy, what's that? She says, why don't I have one? She said, because it worked. Because we got a vaccine years ago. We're dealing with, as Jay was saying, who do we trust? We're dealing with the basic fundamental distrust of all levels of government, from the mayor to the governor, to the Congress, to the courts, to the president, to scientists. What's true? What's not true? It's just a really hard time now. Kind yourself. Be kind to everybody else. Start where you are. That's my optimistic point, because that's the thing you can really, can't control right now. It's just that. And even then, turn off the TV. This is the last TV you get for the week until you come back again for what's next, America hyphen. Nothing. I knew it would only be minutes before he returned. And that optimist within Winston Welch is back. Thank goodness. Thank you, Winston. Appreciate it, Jay. You get to wrap it up. You get the last word. You know, false suit. Be optimistic. Say something optimistic, please. And suppose I refuse. You know, that's part of the show, you're right. I never left the building. When I was a small child, my mother said to me, be thankful that you were born in America. This is the greatest country. And I have harbored that thought. I harbored it through all of my schooling, through law school, through the time I was, certainly the time I was in the service, but I no longer feel that way. And this is not the greatest country on earth. This country has lost ground. Let me say also that, you know, when you live in a world of seven billion people or a country of 330 million, that's very complex. It's a complex society. And in our lifetimes, it has become all the more complex with technology and telecommunications.  So if you wanted to, you know, look at the fragility of it, it's fragile. It's fragile all over the place. And Putin has a, what amounts to a historically brilliant plan of dividing us. So I think he's found the fragility. He is dividing us. And I don't know if Humpty can ever be put back together again. But right now, Humpty is falling off that wall. All right. You know, I suppose it's up to me at this point to leave our audience with an optimistic message. And that message is the following. What Now America will be back next Wednesday at 11 o'clock? And they, and guaranteed it will have J-Fy Dadell and Winston Welsh to join us. I'd like to thank you both very much for attending the show and adding to the conversation as bleak and dark as it was, but it's what it is. So I'd like to thank you. Join us next Wednesday at 11 o'clock for What Now America. I'm Tim Appichell, your host. And until then, a little while.