coming up on DTNS. Do we need a competitor to the switch? The quixotic pursuit of instant grocery delivery and square becomes block. This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, December 2nd, 2021 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane from Austin, Texas. I'm Justin Robert Young and the show's producer Roger Chang. We were just doing our best to skate the edge of controversy on good day internet. What did we talk about? You can only find out by getting the show at patreon.com slash DTNS. Speaking of which, big thanks to our top patrons, including Miranda Janell, Justin Zellers and Eric Holm. Let us begin with a few tech things you should know. What's up users? Consume book an Uber drive by sending a text message. That's all you got to do. Don't need the Uber drop at all. The partner program is being offered in Lucknow, India to start. In a statement, Uber said that even user registrations for its services can be handled through WhatsApp itself. The WhatsApp business platform already works in place of SMS to handle purchase invoices and related business information to users on platforms like Yatra and Book My Show. Yeah, we chat users are over there and trying to go in. You're just getting that. Tesla launched the Cyber Quad for Kids on its website, a $1900 small electric ATV designed for kids eight years old and older. It can go up to 10 miles per hour, 15 miles of range, charges in five hours. Shipping begins within two to four weeks limited to the United States for now. Tesla announced in 2019 that a full-size Tesla Cyber Quad would be available as an option with its cyber truck. It's kind of our first peek at it. Facebook announced it will make two-factor authentication mandatory for its Facebook Protect program. Facebook Protect provides advanced security for people at risk to account to account breaches such as activists, journalists, government officials and the like. Of the 1.5 million accounts in the program, 950,000 have enabled 2FA already. So Facebook will require the rest to enable it in order to log into their account. On December 9th, a week from when I'm recording this right now, Apple must allow app developers to show links to external payment options unless it can convince the US Ninth Circuit Court to issue a stay of that order. In a related court filing trying to convince that court to issue the stay, Apple says that if it's forced to do this, it may charge a commission on any transaction initiated from such links. That would still be consistent with the original ruling. It didn't say they couldn't do that. It'll say we will charge you to put that link in there. Google already announced a similar thing. They're charging an 11% commission on any external payments for the Google Play Store. Meanwhile, Bloomberg sources reported some other bad news for Apple warning suppliers that demand is lower than expected for new iPhones. Earlier this year, Nvidia announced that it would reissue older GPUs to help fill supply during the chip shortage. The company now announced a new variant of the RTX 2060 originally released back in 2019 being available on December 7th. This new variant will get some upgrades, including 12 gigabytes of RAM, 13% more CUDA cores than the standard RTX 2060. The 2060 launched at $349 and Nvidia said that it expects pricing to reflect that the new card is a premium version. Previous meaning you can get it maybe actually maybe not. Alright, speaking of chips, let's talk about Qualcomm. We've got a few follow ups on the Qualcomm announcements. Yesterday, we announced the new naming scheme Snapdragon 8 Gen one. And now we know that the Xiaomi 12 phone will be the first device with the actual new flagship Snapdragon 8 Gen one chip in it. The expectation is it might even ship in China by the end of this month. Of course, multiple models from many manufacturers, not the least of which include Samsung Galaxy S 22 series are going to follow right after that. But Xiaomi looks like it might be able to say first. Qualcomm also announced the Snapdragon 8 C X Gen three. Oh yes, these two names are so much simpler. And the seven C plus Gen three platform. These are for arm based PCs built on a five nanometer process. Qualcomm says they'll get 5G support for both sub six and millimeter wave service, multi day battery life, upgraded camera and audio functions and shipped to cloud security. And there's the Snapdragon G three X Gen one gaming platform as well for handheld gaming devices. It can support streaming games from an PC or a cloud as well as running native Android games. The Adreno GPU in it can handle up to 144 frames per second and 10 bit HDR can also support 5G USB C and 4K TV out. Not just the chip announcement though they did a smart thing and worked with razor that makes very pretty devices to create a very pretty dev kit available for developers that has a 120 Hertz 6.65 inch OLED display four way speakers and built in controllers. In other words, it's a handheld gaming device. You know, like steam is trying to make or like Nintendo makes with the switch for game streaming. It includes a 1080p 60 frame per second camera and dual mics. This is just for devs to be able to like mess with and see how it works and maybe come up with their own or build software for somebody who's coming up with their own. But it has turned some heads out there. People people seem very excited about this, because a lot of people are attracted to the idea of gosh, I love the Nintendo Switch. I love its portability. But wouldn't it be great if I could play some games that Nintendo doesn't offer for the switch and an open platform might be a route to do that. You want to know Tom with the best design feature of the switches? What's that? It plays Mario Kart. You want to know what the second best design feature of the switch is? It plays Animal Crossing. Yep. The third one is Zelda. The fourth one is Metroid and so on and so on. There is nothing magical about the switches design. Indeed, when we first saw the design of the switch, it was looked at as something like, okay, well, they're going to go down the same road as as the Vita. That seemed like a form factor that had kind of worked itself out of fashion, considering we had a rise in phones and tablets and stuff like that. There's nothing magical there. Yes, there is a market for a form factor like this that can play things that are outside the Nintendo ecosystem. But I do have a question of exactly how big it is. Yeah, that's how big it is that space between Justin talking and me is exactly how big that market is. Listen, I know and I want those of you who are like, no, no, I want this to email us feedback a daily tech news show.com. But don't just tell us you want it. We know you want it. Tell us why you would catch on, you know, like, I want it because this and I think a lot of other people would because just you wanting it isn't enough to make it worthwhile. But obviously other people think it's worth pursuing because you see so many companies, you know, messing around with this including honestly, this just totally reminds me of the instance where the micro console was considered to be a viable gaming platform alongside traditional Xbox PlayStation Nintendo.  And Tom has one up in his hand. And it was supposed it was supposed to be super disruptive. Everyone came out shield TV. I have one. It was kind of designed to be a game changer. Ultimately, it just ends up being a really amazing content streamer set top box for, you know, 17 different streaming services and stuff I have. But I do see this platform having use outside of gaming, whether you can use it to control say a drone and still have a real live camera. That display would be perfect for it. And I can but at that point, sure, like, yes, something in that form factor could eventually be used for other things. I will certainly buy that. But it's the I am with you. It's not going to sell it will sell in the hundreds of thousands. If that it is not a million unit, you know, mark device that you see with with a traditional console unit. And let me say one that's all you know, dependent on the games, right? Exactly. That you know, Nintendo switch sold so many switches because people like Nintendo games. No, no, no, no. It's wasn't just because it sold so many games that it could play those games because it was the only platform that you could play those games. And also the games were good. Yeah, not good. It was like the Mario game was great. The Zelda game was great. Like like the Animal Crossing game came around at the right exact right time during the lockdown. So it's like they have had a run of exceptional games to make that platform work, which has kind of always been Nintendo's I think the idea of this is yes, but now cloud stream thing that yeah, I didn't have was the ability to cloud stream more powerful games than the hardware could support on its own. Plus we have advances in arm processing. Look at what Qualcomm is doing. You could actually do more on this machine than you could before. That's what they're thinking. I think it's still an open question whether that changes the dynamics enough.  Now, the information sources say that Instacart plans to launch a 15 minute delivery service in a US city as early as February. Right now, Instacart offers two hour grocery delivery in most places in 30 minutes and some Instacart is supposedly talking to logistics companies for proposals on a system that would manage careers to bring deliveries from the grocery stores that Instacart works with. This would put it in competition with newer companies like Joker, Getter and Gorillas all offering instant or super fast grocery delivery. And if I Google says that none of these operations are close to even sniffing profitability at least at this point with the information saying Joker spends $80 to deliver a $10 order. Partly that's possible because of the massive scale and warehouse system needed to make such delivery possible, but also because competition is fierce where these services operate.  And that often means offering big discounts on your order to get people into the customer base. Investors do think that this is something that will work. Joker just got $260 million in a round of funding and has a $1.2 billion valuation. Tom, you have been in this game a long time. I don't know in my grocery delivery game. The tech, the tech world, right? The internet world, the world of internet based services, specifically direct to consumer. I don't know if there has been a greater holy grail for which it wrecks any and everyone. Billions of dollars burnt incinerated in the goal of 15 minute grocery delivery from Webvan to now all have come in many with gigantic amounts of cash, different ways of doing it slightly all have failed. I only regret that I don't have a Webvan like container or my Cosmo.com keychain at hand. It is shocking that you don't. Look, this is one of those things where it's very easy to just go like, oh, overvaluation, those VCs are dumb. This will never work. They do think it could work, but even I am looking at this going right, but the only way even you say the math works is if there's only one left. It's like Highlander in the end. There can be only one. You have to have a massive operation and you have to get a huge percentage of the populace to adopt it. You have to take those already razor thin margins of a grocery store and slice them deli thin. Then yes, it'll be worth $1.2 billion. Not all of these are going to work. That's how VC works. You put a lot of bets. You know a bunch of them are going to fail, but the one that works is the one that makes up for all the rest. I say to you, get those discounted 15 minute deliveries where and when you can, folks, because I don't, this is one where I just don't see how it plays out. The technology is not new. It's just the attempt. It's logistics. The one thing that is different is that now we live in a world where there are a lot of people who are out there that want to deliver things. That is different from the other models. Webvan was there's going to literally be a van in your area with a small bodega inside of it, or at least that worth of stuff. You're able to order the things and it will be able to drive over. There was a similar thing called Rocket Spoon that happened in the Bay Area for a while that was doing that for food. You could get it delivered faster than anything else. This, I mean, I guess that's the only thing that's different, but still, man, like I don't know what the material difference between $15 or 15 minutes and 30 minutes is. I don't think that there's necessarily a gigantic market to pay a premium for it. I don't know. To me, this just seems like yet another, it will be yet another pile of bones on the side of this cursed highway. I mean, as somebody who wants a burrito when she wants it, the idea of getting it within 15 minutes sounds great. Me and lots of other people I know who live in more rural areas, there is not, there is not somewhere within 15 minutes drive, if I was driving to go get that burrito, it just can't be done. We're not talking about burritos. We're talking about the makings of burritos, right? Not even a burrito. Like a can of beans, four tortillas. Yeah, like whatever it is. Like I can't, I can't go to the store with, well, I can kind of go within 15 minutes, but then I got to go 15 minutes back. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, this is for the city, right? And so they're probably going to launch it in either New York or San Francisco or something like that. So it's like, but again, it's, it's, man, I don't know why that everybody just keeps coming back. This was one of the original ideas, the original web service ideas. And everybody can help us get into the stove again. The idea is so great. It's like I don't own a store, but maybe I can get whatever I want from the store in 15 minutes. That sounds great. It's the flying car of service logistical enterprises. Well, we have some good news in Microsoft land, everybody. The new office UI that was showed off in June is rolling out to all Office 365 and Office 2021 users now. This includes more rounded design to match Windows 11, theme matching, also some tweaks to buttons here and there. Not significant changes away from the ribbon interface, but, you know, some changes nonetheless. In other news, users report that Edge on Windows 10 and 11 displays prompts when navigating to the Chrome download page, rendered natively by Edge as a system popup, not available to other websites. The popup has different versions of text. One reads Microsoft Edge runs on the same technology as Chrome with the added trust of Microsoft. Another reads, that browser is so 2008. Do you know what's new? Microsoft Edge. That's saying another cool. And another example reads, I hate saving money, said no one ever. Microsoft Edge is the best browser for online shopping. Each one has a button with text related to the message like shop smarter now. Google displays messages on some of its own websites, encouraging users to switch to Chrome if it detects other browsers, but it doesn't add popups to other websites. So that's where things differ a little bit here. Yeah, it only does it on its own website when it shows up and detects Edge or Firefox or something, but Microsoft is putting it over someone else's website, which I find rude. I'm not going to lie. This bugs me. It's not along the lines of like a security breach or anything like that. It's also, yeah, there are some of their messages are a little too cute. The one that just says this runs on Edge runs on the same tech as Chrome. Wouldn't you like to just stay right here? You got all the best parts. That one's not as egregious, but really I don't like any of this. Like fine, when you go to Microsoft.com, you could say like, hey, we see you're not running Edge, switch on over. But to tell the Edge users don't go seems a little desperate. It does. It's like I'm trying to break up with you. Can you please just take it with dignity instead of instead of begging and pleading? If you're using Edge to download Chrome, it's being done for a reason, presumably. I think this is also just part of a larger trend of never in, especially when we came through Black Friday and Cyber Monday, it feels like apps and ecosystems have never been more brazen in using the ability that you are on their service to advertise directly to you to use push messages or pop ups and stuff like that. It's like, look, I have no problem with there being a marketing message here or there, but man, it feels like, and I guess it's because we become so effective at blocking out other forms of marketing that now this is just the only place that they know we're paying attention. Boy, is it annoying. Made me launch Vivaldi. That's all I'm going to say. Hey folks, have a thought about something on the show, but don't know our email address. Well, it's feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Right around recording time for DTNS on Wednesday, Square co-founder and CEO, still CEO of Square, Jack Dorsey announced that the company is going to change its name to Block effective December 10th. So it's still called Square right now, but on December 10th, it becomes Block. If you're looking for the stock ticker, don't worry, it'll still be SQ. Apparently, they couldn't get BLK or BLOCK or anything like that. Dorsey said in the announcement, we built the Square brand for our seller business, which is where it belongs. So the merchant selling services will still be called Square. If you use Square, that will still be called Square. It's the parent company that will become Block. Square Crypto, which actually doesn't really have anything to do with the merchant stuff, it focuses solely on Bitcoin, is going to be renamed Spiral. Everything else Square owns Afterpay, Weebly, TBD, Tidal, will all keep their names. TBD, if you're wondering, is the business that is focused on making a decentralized Bitcoin exchange. The newly dubbed Spiral is building open source projects to make Bitcoin a preferred currency. So they're both focused on Bitcoin in different ways. So BLOCK, right? It obviously means blockchain. Not just. Company statements said it also means building blocks, neighborhood blocks, and their local businesses, communities coming together at block parties full of music from Tidal. A blockchain, of course, a section of code, and obstacles to overcome. You know, when this when the story broke yesterday and it was right after our show, you know, I was trying to make some sense of it, and I do have to say as someone who uses Cash App regularly to send and receive money, I sort of forgot that Square owned Tidal. I do see where there was a little bit of a disconnect with the overall branding. It's like, what's the company? What do you own? So I kind of, I get this. At the same time, it's a very coincidental timing for, you know, Square to sort of say, well, we're now called BLOCK, and that's just what we're doing. And I don't know if anybody else has ever done such a thing to name a parent company something new, but we're doing it. Sarah, I think that what you're eating around the edges on is that Jack Dorsey is, as the kids say, on one. He is having a weird time of it, leaving Twitter. He is renaming Square. I guess here's my only thing. Got a new haircut, pierced his ear, yeah. Yeah, I get why Facebook went to Metta. They want to get away from this idea of them being this content leverage data acquisition play and using the worst elements of society to do it, and rather say, hey, our real focus is the future. We have so many great engineers. We have this hacker culture. We want to help build the future, and so trust us to go out to the frontiers and do it. The thing with Square is, especially through the pandemic, when contactless payments became something, you know, exponentially more a part of, I think, the average consumer's existence, Square has a great brand. When you think of Square, like for me, when I see a Square reader, and I forgot my wallet, it means I don't have to go back to the car and get it. I can just use my phone. I don't quite know why you would take all that goodwill and say, no, now we're blocked, but that's still Square, and also we're renaming this other thing. Well, but I mean, it sounds like the Square brand for what you're talking about, Justin, doesn't go away. Square ran for this contactless payment stuff. It's just that the parent company now is blocked.  I like block buys it. I'm like, oh, I don't even know what block is. That's why you do it. And if you to get away from all that goodwill, I think people over emphasize, I think people overemphasize why they think meta changed its name. This is at the first time a parent company has changed its name because they want to not be associated with one brand. You do this because you're like, people say Square bought title. How does that work with Square? And Square is like, it doesn't. It works with a different strategy.  Well, you know, what's their, what's their purpose? Same with meta. Meta isn't just, I mean, yes, they probably are hoping there's a little change in perception, but meta also is a change to say like, look, Oculus and Facebook don't necessarily always have to interact with each other. We have different things that we want to do with Oculus. We have different things that we want to do with research and development, different businesses we want to get in all together because that's what big businesses do. They don't want to limit themselves. And so you change that parent company name to disassociate it from the brands and let the brand be the brand. So nobody goes like Square and title. That's weird. They go, oh, Square, that's the payment thing. Oh, title. Oh, block owns them both. That makes sense. Because most people don't know what parent company names are. What's the parent company name of Daily Tech News Show? Subbrilliant, LLC. Okay. Well, you two work for it. That's why you know it. But most people would know.  Well, I mean, come on. Yes, but it doesn't always have to be like that. Was I smarter than Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg and named my company something different than the main brand? Yes. But look, they finally gotten around to doing it right. I definitely, I get your point. I think, truly, I really think that Square has too many businesses for Square to make sense. It makes sense for kind of the merchant side. That's certainly what I, you know, if I see a Square kiosk in a store, I know exactly what to do with it. It's kind of thing. It's good. I use the apps. It's very good vibes. Here's the thing. Disney didn't need to change their name when they bought ESPN. Nobody was like, what is ESPN going to be cartoons now? Like, like they were, it was just a does cause confusion though. People are like, they have a good feeling. You have a good feeling whenever somebody buys, whenever Disney buys something adult, they're like, wait, so the, this kids company is going to, it does cause that Disney doesn't care. Because it doesn't matter because by and large people like Disney things, but that it doesn't matter cuts both ways. Right. It's like, so nobody's going to remember that it's called sure. I know, but we're paid by Subrillion LLC to talk about these things on the internet. Also, also like five people in chat wrote Subrillion by Subrillion LLC. Justin, the heck am I doing here? Yeah, don't tell her that. No, let me, let me, let me change the subject so we can move off this whole payment issue. A new report by the UN's International Telecommunications Union found that the number of people using the internet globally has increased from 4.1 billion in 2019 to 4.9 billion in 2021. The report cited the COVID connectivity boost leading use internet users to grow more than 10% in 2020. The largest annual increase in a decade, 76% of urban dwellers globally use the internet compared to 39% of those in rural areas. 37% of the world or about 2.9 billion people have never used the internet. Yeah, because some of the people that are counted is using it may not have it in their home. They may share a device or something like that, but they use it enough to 37% never use the internet. To me, there's all kinds of conversations you can have on the back of that, but to me, this is just a number to have in your pocket. And I feel like, okay, where are we when we talk about how many people have the internet? There was a big deal when we passed 50% years ago. So this is where we are. We're about just under two thirds of the world. You know, at this point, we are getting to the element of some of the bottom billion kind of like poorest people in America. And the more we can, I think connect some of those communities in the world. Sorry, the better off the world will be. I think that the internet has a tremendous leveling effect that beyond all the social media kind of migrahms that we tend to think about in terms of negative elements, I think it is a fantastic resource for everybody. Well, and that 37% of the world who has not used the internet yet. Okay, huge market.  Totally leapfrog that whole thing. You know, what will that 37% be and how will they use it? Yeah. And you saw how much internet usage changed when we passed that 50% mark, when we penetrated the mainstream over the past 10 years or so. What's that last third going to do? It'll be interesting, it'll be interesting to keep an eye on. All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. This one comes in from Mike Mills. Hello, Mike. Mike says, this isn't the same company that you talked about, he's talking about yesterday's show, about doing 7-11 deliveries, robots, but I can help answer the question of who is using this? I offered the Starship robots at Northern Arizona University. Turns out college kids don't really like to lead their dorms. My niece told us about this when they first came out. I was recently on a campus on the campus for a tour and I saw them all over the place. There was even one time when the robot was surrounded by our tour group and I was fascinated watching how it dealt with a non-moving crowd. Took a few seconds, but I speculate that after about 30 seconds a remote driver took control and started having the robot say things to alert people to its presence and asked them to move out of the way. While Waymo was testing their cars in Chandler, Arizona, which is right outside of Phoenix, there isn't much weather there and the roads are mostly in a grid system. The NAU campus, the Northern Arizona University campus, gets a fair amount of snow in the winter and the roads are winding and spread out over a few square miles. I have to believe this tech will take off at other colleges and universities at a minimum. Maybe it doesn't make sense in the suburbs or crowded cities, but I do believe there is a place for our robot delivery overlords. Yeah, I wish I would have mentioned Starship yesterday. This is great. Thank you for sending this, Mike. There is Starship on other campuses as well as office campuses doing the same thing. And you're right, Northern Arizona, great place to test this in weather. I once ordered Jack in the Box in the snow in Flagstaff, Arizona. So go lumberjacks. Quick side note, they actually have these over by my parents at the local supermarket and you can see them crossing a six-lane highway every now and then. Really? You see them crossing a six-lane highway. A six-lane highway? Because the way you say that makes it sound like they just plow across the interstates and they're slamming on their brakes. It's like, you know, three... Gotcha. Okay, okay, okay. At a light. At a light, not a highway. I mean, at a stoplight. Yeah, stoplight, four-way, so. So what you're saying is, yes, what I'm saying is right, they are in other places and one of them is where your parents are. Yeah, and it works pretty well on the subway. I mean, lots of driveways, lots of people driving in and out. Yeah. From Brian, following up on the discussion in Good Day Internet. Now, folks on DTNSU wouldn't have heard this, but we were trying to remember the name of the disease that spread through World of Warcraft years ago. Brian says, the virtual disease in World of Warcraft was corrupted blood, a debuff that jumped containment in a raid and spread to the overworld. I wrote an article about it for friend of the show, Russ Pitts at the escapist back in the day. Russ Pitts! We'll have a link to Brian's article on that in the show notes as well. Thank you for that, Brian. And thank you for clearing that up. Scott was very pleased when I forwarded this email to him. If you have feedback, questions, comments, you'd say, I know what you're thinking of. It's that word. I've got corrupted blood. Please do send it our way, feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. And today, we have some good news that we have four new, brand new bosses. Dennis Horton, Janish Hoffman, Tyson Lee, and Karen Deshmuk. All just started backing us on Patreon. Thank you, Dennis. Thank you, Janish. Thank you, Tyson. And thank you, Karen. Yeah. I don't know what levels they're at, but if they're at the co-executive producer and up now, I just changed out the merch for the loyalty program.  It used to be at the analyst level and up. It now starts at the co-executive producer level and up. So more people getting merch, new designs from Len Peralta, all fresh at Patreon.com slash DTNS. Well, thank you also to you, Justin Robert Young, King among men.  Well, two things very quick. Number one on the Politics, Politics, Politics episode that comes out tomorrow, I will teach you what the Grinch can explain about our modern political landscape. And I wanted to congratulate Brian Brushwood and everybody else who helped work on the series that we did called World's Greatest Khan. Yesterday it was named in the top 50 of all podcasts that were subscribed to in 2020 by Pocketcast. So thank you. I know that the DTNS listenership was a huge part of that, a huge part of our launch. Thank you to everybody who downloaded it, specifically those on Pocketcast because you guys gave us a really cool title to move forward on and season two is in the works. Well, that is great news. Congratulations to all of you. Well, on this show, we are live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern, 2130 UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live and we'll be back tomorrow. Alison Sheridan is going to talk about Tesla's self-driving experience and Len Peralta will be with us as well. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Broadpants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. The Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


Thank you for joining us for the Society and Webinar, Your Future, Your Finances, How Do I Pay for Dental School? This joint venture between the American College of Dental and the American Dental Education Association is brought to you to help expand knowledge about financing and dental education. During the webinar, you will hear from two dental students, a resident and financial aid administrators who will provide insights and guidance on borrowing for dental school and managing finances while a dental student. After listening to our participants and hearing what they have to share, we hope you walk away knowing that dental school debt can be managed, and most importantly, a dental education is a worthwhile investment. I am Dr. Carolyn Booker, Chief of Educational Pathways with the American Dental Education Association and would like to introduce our participants today. We have Ms. Elizabeth Aum, a dental student at Boston University, Harry M. Goldman, School of Dental Medicine. Ms. Liam Shields, a dental student at Boston University, Harry M. Goldman, School of Dental Medicine. Dr. Shawn Rathburn, a third-year resident at the University of Oklahoma College of Dental History. Mr. Paul Gerard, the ideas senior financial aid consultant, Ms. Karen Gilliam, Associate Director of Financial Aid at Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dental History, and Mr. Gardner Key, Director of Financial Aid, Harvard School of Dental Medicine. Now let's hear from our panelists. Hi, everyone. My name is Elizabeth Aum, and I am a D2 student at Boston University, School of Dental Medicine, and I am from Washington, D.C. Hey, Elizabeth, thank you for being with us today for our webinar on your future, your finances. I have a couple of questions for you. As we go through this, please feel free to just answer very comfortably and share your experiences. So let's begin. Did you develop a budget as a dental student? Yes, for the first year, I ended up taking out the maximum amount of loans that I could take out because I was paying for rent, utilities, and other spendings all on my own with no additional help. So to keep myself accountable, I created an Excel sheet for every month and divided my loan money monthly, and then on the Excel sheet, I would write out my necessary spendings like rent, utilities, including groceries as well. And then I would just be more mindful when it came to different months. Since I'm up here in Boston and it gets pretty cold during the winter time, I would make I would make small notes of that and just be more mindful. And then whatever was left over, I would use that for personal spendings. But I do recommend going on Google, finding a free budgeting template or just simply making your own on Excel like I did. If you would like my template, feel free to email me and I will gladly send it to you. Great. OK, so thank you. That's very insightful. Very important to know the process of budgeting and creating a budget and staying with it. Sounds like you're doing an excellent job in that arena. So my next question for you in terms of budgeting, did you have did you have the financial literacy to understand how interest rates impact your borrowing on federal loans? So to be completely honest, no, I did not have the financial literacy to understand that. In undergrad, I actually did not take out any loans, which is why I was very unfamiliar with it. And also the year that I started dental school was an all time I started during the pandemic, so there was a fixed interest rate. And I believe there still is until the end of January. But I do recommend if you are or if you were in the same boat as I was, do your research, reach out to dental student or faculty members to learn more about how interest rates work, because that will definitely help you in the future. OK, great. So the last question I have for you is related to were you exposed to financial literacy in dental school? Have your dental school program produced a character? Have you all enrolled in any financial literacy programs? Yes, so actually I was first initially exposed to loans during my dental school interview process. And I really liked my interview experience, especially at BU, because we had a member from their financial aid office come and talk to us about loans and lay down all the facts, all the tuition costs, the cost of living, etc. And so I found that to be very helpful. And I believe most dental schools do that during their interview process. So that was definitely a plus. And then my sister is actually in pharmacy school. So she was she's going through the same thing as me. So I was able to get a lot of help from her. And then lastly, I ended up just doing my own research with the help from Adia, and I would go on their website, look for answers. And that's actually where I found out about the National Health Service Corps Scholarship, which I am a recipient for. And then I can go more in depth about that. And then BU actually does a really good job with offering a bunch of seminars with financial aid loans, how to manage your money well. So definitely a plus with that. Great. Thank you. You mentioned the National Health Service Corps Scholarship. Why don't we take this opportunity and let you share a little bit more about that scholarship? It's a great opportunity for many students. Yeah, sure. So the National Health Service Corps Scholarship is basically a program where they help you throughout dental school. They pay for your tuition and they give you other reasonable costs such as rent and utilities and all that. And in return for your service for the Service Corps after dental school. And so I am a recipient for the three year scholarship. So after dental school, I will be working for them for three years. And it's a great opportunity to get experience, help communities and also very beneficial for dental students throughout dental school. So definitely encourage pre-dental students to look at the scholarship as well as other scholarships. I know there's the military one and then there's a lot of scholarships that schools provide individually. So that is definitely helpful with that. Right. Thank you. So Elizabeth, tell us a little bit about anything you want to share with students considering a career in dentistry. Yeah, sure. So I chose dentistry for many reasons. Growing up, I really enjoyed playing the piano and the cello. So I knew that I wanted to do something where I could not only incorporate my love for using my hands and being hands-on, but also my love for communicating and working with people. Growing up as well, I was a translator for my parents as they're not fluent in English.  And so those two reasons really drew me to dentistry. And so in undergrad, I was able to meet a mentor who was my bit, ended up being my big for the pre-dental society. And since then, I have shadowed a bunch of dentists and really, really enjoyed the lifestyle that these dentists had. And so I am currently in dental school right now. I have been exposed to so many different aspects of dentistry. Not only is it just hands-on, but like I said, it's also working with patients, solving problems and overall just a great way to not only help your community, but also grow as an individual. Right. Thank you. Hi, my name is Liam Shields and I'm a first year student at the Boston University, Henry M. Goldman School of Dental Medicine, and I'm from Osterville, Massachusetts. Liam, thank you for being with us today. A few questions for you by some of your experiences with financial aid. Rumor has it that some students misappropriate their student loans for things other than dental school expenses, such as vacations, cars, et cetera. You're in the dental school environment. Tell us, have you experienced or heard anything about this among your colleagues or friends? In my experience as a first year dental student, I think that the financial aid departments at each school have done a really good job stressing that we shouldn't borrow more than we owe and that we shouldn't feel obligated to go up to our complete cost of attendance. A lot of students in my class, they don't buy things like cars. They don't go on extravagant vacations. I live in Boston and go to school in Boston, and you have to account for things like the cost of living in the city of groceries, of buying coats because it gets really cold outside. And so I think, from my experience, the most students have done are buying coats to survive going to class. But there are tons of ways to save money that is living with roommates. I currently have the two roommates to save money in the city. Some kids will go up to the full cost of attendance to live in their own singles. But from my experience, a lot of kids are being really smart about their money and how they spend it. I don't know anyone that's been going away to Italy or France. We're all studying for our tests and we're spending the money in a way that's going to make sure that we have the most success possible in dental school. Great. I believe you, and that was my impression too, but you know, we have those rumors that flow around and sometimes we have to address our rumors. Of course, sometimes you'll see kids, they might go on vacation and rumors will spread around schools quick. I mean, the schools are really small. So if a dental school class size is 140, some kids are gonna stay some things. But I think more often than not, kids are gonna spend wisely. I agree with you. Thank you. So my next question for you is, do you think the financial investment that you're making in your dental education is going to be worth it? I totally think the financial investment is worth it. And so do my colleagues. It shouldn't be about the money. I'm going into any career field that really shouldn't be about the money either. If you really love something and you put all your effort into it, the money is going to come. And the most important thing is doing what makes you happy and investing in yourself. And dental school and getting a professional degree is the greatest investment you can put into yourself that you could ever ask for. And every single moment that I'm in the classroom, every moment I'm in the service learning lab at my school working on a composite on an amalgam doing a crown prep, I totally feel like it's worth it. And it's the best investment I've ever made in my life. Wonderful. That's very exciting to hear. Okay, so no question I have for you. Thinking back to high school, college, those early days when you were thinking about and planning for a career in dentistry. Is there anything that you know, now you wish someone had told you then that would have prepared you for borrowing and even thinking about the payment of those loans? Thinking back to high school and college, I wish I knew how expensive going to dental school was and how expensive going to undergraduate is. So going back, I would talk a lot more with my guidance counselor in order to figure out ways to strategically go to school for the least amount of money, at least for the undergraduate degree because a lot of dental schools and professional schools don't have a lot of financial aid to offer. So I personally applied to a lot of state schools and private schools. And because I did go to my guidance counselor, he directed me towards the college that I ended up going to that was needs blind admission. And they covered a great deal of my tuition through a financial scholarship. And that really helped me with my decision of going to Boston University for Dental School because I didn't have a lot of undergraduate loans. And if that's not the case for you and you are stuck with a lot of undergraduate loans and you're looking at paying the full price at a school, you can look and you can talk, I wish I knew how talking to my financial aid department at my college and talking to the financial aid department at my prospective dental schools, they actually offer a ton of resources for providing ways to pay back and also calculate what kind of loans and interests that you're going to accumulate. I know that when I started talking to my, the dental schools I was applying to, they pointed me to the ADA website that has a financial aid calculator. And it talks about the type of loans that you can take out, the interest that you can accumulate. And that really puts in the perspective, the investment you're putting into your future and what kind of loans that you should be taking out. Also, they directed me towards scholarships and repayment programs that are available. I know a lot of kids who are a part of the HPSP Navy Army Air Force scholarship that have their tuition paid for and receive a monthly stipend. I know a lot of kids who are part of the National Health Service Corps, that's a scholarship that awards them for going into four years of service after school and working in community centers and under resourced areas. They also receive a stipend and receive the full cost of attendance. Now say you aren't awarded those scholarships. Maybe you already got into a school accepted it in the scholarship deadlines past. Talking to your financial aid department, they can lead you in the direction of applying to certain things that can help repay those loans that you already took out, such as through the Army Navy Air Force and the National Service Corps. There are programs where you work in those areas, those communities, through those different environments and they'll give you tax-free money towards putting back into your loans. And so you can fight back and repay those loans as fast as possible. But again, I wanna stress that if you really do love the field of dentistry, it should never be about the money and you should never worry about the investment that you're putting into yourself. It's always gonna be worth it at the end of the day. Okay, Liam, share with us any thoughts that you want to pass on to others about being a dental student, applying to dental school or just this whole process. As a first year dental student at Boston University, in my third, fourth month of school, I just wanna stress that this is the best investment I've made in my life and I can already see myself growing as not only a dental professional, a prospective dental professional, but as a person as well. Every day that I'm in class, every day I'm in the simulation lab working on amalgams, composites. I really feel myself developing as a person and I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else but dental school. And so to everyone that's applying, everyone that's thinking about applying, everyone that's currently in the process, please do not worry about the money because you're investing in yourself and there are ways to repay back those loans. There are ways to go about getting those loans covered and if you really do wanna be a dentist, I would not hesitate at all applying to dental school because it's the best experience I've had in my life. Great, thank you. My name is Sean Rathburn. I am a third year resident in an oral and maxillofacial surgery program at OU here in Oklahoma City. I graduated from University of Texas San Antonio in 2019 and then I started the program and then my hometown is New Boston, Texas. Dr. Rathburn, thank you for being with us today to talk about some of your experiences and financial aid and borrowing for dental school. Let's begin with a couple of questions for you. So my first question is, where do you go for information about student loans and repayment? The internet, first and foremost, like most other people these days, the internet's our first thing that we start to Google. And so studentaid.org is a great website to get started on. It's a federal website that talks about loan repayment, loan options and things you can do to not only to explain the interest rates and the monies that you'll take out but also the ways to pay it back. Another website is student loan hero.  So I think the internet, first and foremost, and then second and not less than is going to be your student aid counselors at any program that you're applying to or any that you get into. They are there to help you, they're very wonderful people and they are always great resource to talk to, bounce questions off of, get a basic understanding of what you're gonna be going through and what you're gonna be experiencing and how to prepare for it. Great. So thank you, that's very helpful and we do want to emphasize there are many resources out there and it's very important for students to take advantage of the many options that can help them. So as you were thinking about it and you're planning for all of this great opportunity to be a dentist, what would you think of as some of the best practices for incoming students to think about when talking about creating a budget, planning for this and knowing that they're going to incur quite a bit of debt?  So you still have to budget like our wonderful PhD individuals out there, they usually don't get paid a large sum of money when they're going through those graduate programs and they're earning their PhDs and so a lot of them, they're very good at budgeting. And so I'd say live like that, live like you're in college. Remember that at the end of the day that you have to pay those loans back.  I think that's probably one of the best things. So another good quote is just, you don't have to do the whole keeping up with the Joneses type situation. You live within your means, keep a roommate, something to half your costs, keep down on driving expenses, no new cars, all of those things are wonderful things to have or to do when you're in that situation to save yourself money. I think I looked up earlier that the OU here is the average cost of living is $30,000. So that's something that I would go nowhere near. I would think that you need to stay half of that unless you have a family or something like that. But having a roommate and cutting down on your vehicle expenses and cutting out on going out to eat all the time, all of those things help to reduce that burden and make it to where you don't come nowhere near those costs and help to reduce your overall debt. Some good advice and some good insight to remind people to think about is not just spending but you gotta pay it back as well. Absolutely. We also, in those lies, think about this as a financial investment in your dental education. What are your thoughts about having this and having people to say to you this is a financial investment for you? Sheryl, that's what do you think about that? With the financial investment in your future, I wholeheartedly agree. But like all things in all investments, you have to look at it and look at the pros and the cons and you have to evaluate if that investment makes sense to you and to your personal situation. Obviously, it's very different when you're going to a cheaper school. For instance, like in most Texas schools, OU here in Oklahoma, I think even LSU in Arkansas, a lot of the Southern schools are vastly cheaper than your East Coast and your West Coast programs. Just based on their location in New York, it's a very expensive place to be and to do anything. And so when you're looking at $100,000 a year in tuition versus 30 or $40,000 a year, that's a vast different. And that's a difference that you have to understand and interpret and address when you're talking about from an investment perspective. Also, just like in any investment, you have to look at what you're comfortable with. Where is your cost of living going to be when you get out of school and you get out of those programs and how much are you comfortable making? Are you comfortable, if you take out a large $400,000 or $500,000 loan for your student debt, are you comfortable living at a lower means for those years, year for years after it to pay those back in an adequate manner? Do you have a program set up? Are you gonna be able to go military to pay those, so that you don't have that type of debt, which would completely change the situation? Possible specialties, but again, that delays your income. So those are all adequate ways to address that, but I do definitely agree that it is an investment, but I would say go out and address it as an investment and look at the pros and the cons and where does it make sense to you? Because in some situations, it's not. And in some, it's gonna be a great investment, but that's the best thing. If you need to talk to a financial advisor, I would say go out and talk to them beforehand. Usually, they're pretty kind to people that say that they're gonna be a future doctor and they're going to be out working in the world. So I would say that that's probably the most important things. Great, thank you. Some good information and you're right. It's something you have to really think about in terms of where and how you want to invest in your future. Thinking about that, when we think back, I ask you to think back to high school or college. Those days may seem like a long time ago, but is there anything that you know now you wish someone had shared with you then in preparation and planning for being a dentist and borrowing money for dental school? Probably not, but one thing that I did here is I try to read as much as I can. I try to think about the financial in the world and Dave Ramsey had a great quote and the quote is live like no one today so you can live like no one tomorrow. And that whole quote is the goal is so that you save money today and every dime that you save today, you can reinvest in your future in a different ways. And if I'm not buying those lavish things, I'm not buying the new car and I'm not maybe living alone yet and maybe I'm having a roommate, all of those expenses, then I can take that money, save on the loan and then invest in the future. And in your fund, in your future investments, in your practice, in your community, all of those things, you can then make the choice with that money. Whereas if you don't make that choice early on, you don't have it, the only choice you have is to pay off your student loan and that money will go to it. And to always think that at the end of the day, for every dollar you borrow, it's not uncommon that it's gonna, at the end of a normal 10 year loan term or more, that you'll be paying back $2 for every dollar you borrow. So for every coffee that you get or $4 grand a latte or something that you get from Starbucks that you're gonna be paying twice to that at the end of all of it. So it's just live like no one today so that you can live like no one tomorrow, I think is the safest way. Great. Thank you so much. I'm Paul Gerard, Senior Financial Aid Consultant with the American Dental Education Association. Mr. Gerard, thank you for being with us and we are happy to have you to share with you among your wealth of experience and higher education, financial aid, borrowing and loan repayment. We are excited that you can bring some experience to this topic that can help so many students as they're making their plans for dental school. My first question for you is, what insights can you share with our participants and our attendees on how students can know and keep track of what they're borrowing as they go throughout their dental education? When we're asked about the best way for students to track their borrowing and to know about repayment options after they graduate from dental school, I would simply say that it's easier than ever to do so. All the federal loans that dental school students borrow and most folks only are borrowing federal student loans, they're all coming from the same source, the direct loan program directly from the federal government and all those loans are housed on one database at studentaid.gov. One advantage that dental school students will have is that even though you may be borrowing a lot of money and different loans while you're in dental school, they should all be with one loan servicer when you graduate. And so even though you may have a lot of debt and different loans, they're all going to be in one place with one loan servicer. They're all housed again at studentaid.gov. And folks, that includes loans from college and perhaps a post-bac program you may have. Mr. Jarrod, based upon all of that experience that you bring to the table and your insight, can you share with us some of the worst case scenarios and best case scenarios you've seen in student borrowing and preparing for loan repayment? Sure, let's start with the worst case scenario. A lot of folks might think that that's someone who's borrowed an extremely high amount of debt, but that's not always the case. The worst case scenario is really someone who's just not paid attention to their borrowing. They don't know what they have in their student loan portfolio. They don't know the interest rates, the terms and conditions. And in all likelihood, they may have borrowed more than they really needed, but the reality is the worst case scenario is the borrower who graduates enters repayment about six months after they graduate from dental school and they really didn't pay the attention and they don't know exactly how to go about repayment. It's not always the borrower in the worst case scenario who has the highest amount of debt. The flip side of that, to me, the person who's got the best situation or the best advantage, if you will, coming out of dental school, best case scenario is not necessarily the person with the lowest amount of debt, but it's the person who paid attention during dental school. They did have to borrow, but Dr. Booker, they didn't borrow more than they needed. They used all the free resources available from ADIA to help them with repayment. They paid close attention with the relationship with their financial aid professional at their school. They paid attention at their senior loan exit interview and when they entered repayment six months after, whether they were doing an advanced dental education program or going straight into practice, they already had a solid understanding of what their repayment options were. And as we've taught before, their debt didn't control them. They ended up controlling their debt because they paid attention to what they were doing all through dental school. Great, thank you so much for your insight. Karen Gilliam, Associate Director of Financial Aid, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Dentistry in the state of Virginia. Karen, thank you so much for being with us today. We're excited to hear what you have to share with students and prospective students about financial aid. You have a wealth of experience that I think will bring some great insights and information and knowledge to those who are listening. So let's begin with some questions for you. I'm going to begin with things that tend to resonate a lot with students and with financial aid professionals in particular, such as are there questions that serve as triggers that alert you about the concerns someone may have over borrowing for dental school? The first question would be, how much do other students borrow? And the second question, how long does it take dental students to repay dental school debt? And these questions allow me to introduce and explain the cost of attendance and how this cost of attendance can be used to determine how much a student borrowed. Additionally, it helps me to help the student create a budget or a spending plan. It also opens the door for me to help students to identify what is a need, what is an educationally related expense versus what is a want. And then finally, it also helps me to introduce to students various loan types, the terms of loans and which loan product will work best for students if they have to borrow student loans. Great, that's really good because we know those kinds of things tend to arise a lot with students when they're trying to make decisions about borrowing. As a part of that though, how do you help maintain transparency regarding the possible debt students are going to incur while also being supportive of their ability to borrow responsibly and to repay responsibly? I maintain transparency regarding the possible debt that students may incur while being supportive of their ability to borrow responsibly and pay responsibly by providing a cost of education upfront for the four year period of dental school. Students receive the total cost of dental school, not just the first year of dental school with them coming in. So I explained that the budget can potentially change yearly based on tuition and fee increases. Additionally, I explained the direct costs. What is a direct cost versus an indirect cost? Your direct cost is your tuition and fees. Your indirect costs will be all other budget items. This is how students can control how much they may need to borrow. The cost of borrowing loans, what are the interest rates, the origination fees, the disbursement amount and how students can return any unused funds that may not be needed during the school year. Great, things people need to know how much you borrowed and how to return money which we often don't talk about with students. Thank you for that great insight. Additionally, how do you get incoming students?  And it's important to get them to understand and pay attention to what they're borrowing, especially when they were not likely into repayment for more than four years. How do you get them to say, hey, this is where you are, this is what you need to think about? I try to get incoming students to pay attention to their borrowing, especially since they're not going to enter repayment for the next four years by providing workshops during the year, providing various topics throughout the years. We do have a series called Dollars and Cents. Many topics are on financing, managing money. We have guest speakers that come in, introducing students to the D-LOC, the Dental Loan Organizer and Calculator and how to check NSLDS, the National Student Loan Database Service, which is at their fingertips seven days a week, 24 hours a day. So there's a three-prong method that is used to make sure that students receive information throughout the school year, whether it's a webinar, it could be an email with information or walking into my office. I do have an open-door policy. Wonderful. So with all of that, you touched upon it a little bit and let's explore further. What is your process for then assuring students are aware of their total debt as they progress through dental school and how does interest and exit counseling play into this process? To ensure that students are aware of their student loan debt while they are progressing through dental school, I provide various opportunities of financial aid information to students. Interest and exit counseling plays a big role in this process. Interest counseling is required for all students borrowing federal student aid and students are required to do this prior to receiving any type of federal student loan funding. During the school year cycle, I encourage students to again, check the National Student Loan Database Service, NSLDS, log on to their lender website and view the dental loan organizer and calculator. The exit counseling is required for all students as a part of the checkout process prior to graduation. At this time, I recap the students total debt. There's multiple options that are available for repayment. We go over these, the public service loan forgiveness. We also discuss the federal or state loan forgiveness programs as well. Great. Let's transition just a little bit and for my last question for you is prospective students. There's trying to learn so much information and gather so much about going into dental school and the debt and what they're going to borrow. How do you help them to be comfortable with this and convey a culture of care and support to assure that they can have confidence in the investments that they are making? We convey a culture of care and support to assure students that they can have the confidence in the investment that they're making. Simply by, I have an open door policy. Students can email or make a phone call all in which information will be returned in a timely manner by keeping constant communication throughout the year, through emails, through seminars, through notices to students. Answering all questions promptly. We want students to feel that when they ask the question that their questions will be answered. Also providing a means for assistance for issues that may arise while they're in dental school. We want to show students that they can be assured that any information that they're requesting will be answered while they're in the program or for a spending plan, formally known as a budget plan to help students budget throughout the year. The greatest concern is that students understand that no question is too small, no question is too big. Financial aid professionals nationwide, we are all committed to working with students to ensure that you receive the same information about financing your student loan educational career. We meet several times during the year and we again, want to make sure that students feel comfortable, that we are also invested in making sure that they receive the level of information needed to finance their dental career. Wow, that is awesome. It is very comforting to know that our financial aid representatives are so committed to our students and ensuring that they're able to get what they need to pay for dental school. Thank you so much and appreciate your contribution. Thank you. Good morning, my name is Gartner Key and I am the director of financial aid at the Harvard School of Dental Medicine. Gartner, thank you for being with us today on this wonderful webinar. Happy few questions for you. As you interact with students, could you tell us what is the number one question you generally get from first year students when they first contact your office or during orientation? Once we sort of skip over just what are the mechanics of applying for financial aid, et cetera, the most popular question by far is where can I find scholarship money to go to dental school? And the answer to that question is, it is difficult. The vast majority of scholarship money available for dental students is gonna have strings attached. Things like the National Health Service Corps Scholarship which is a fantastic scholarship but does require that you do a service payback as well as the military's health profession scholarship programs, which again are fantastic financial aid programs but do require you to do a service payback. So the vast majority of scholarship money for dental school is gonna be of that variety where it is gonna have strings attached. It's gonna expect service repayment or something like that. And that there just is not a lot of scholarship opportunity out there for dental students. Understandable. Those can be a little bit of challenging at times. So following along with that, what for you has been the most difficult challenge you face in getting information about Pan for Dental School and to prospective and incoming students? It's always something they want to know. So how do you get that information of what has been challenging about getting that information to them? I think the most difficult challenge we in the financial aid community, I was speaking for all of us I suppose is cutting through the noise, right? Like making students understand that if you're gonna go to dental school in all likelihood you are going to have to borrow money and this is not a bad thing. I think students are getting a lot of information from external sources about how debt is bad and borrowing money is bad and you shouldn't borrow money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so cutting through that noise and getting them the message that this is actually a situation where you're making an investment and responsible borrowing in this particular situation is actually a good thing and is going to benefit you down the road. Now, what do I mean when I say responsible borrowing? Well, what I consider to be responsible borrowing is informed borrowing. So you've done your homework, you've examined all the different loan options out there. You understand the various outcomes that come from various different borrowing strategies.  So if you've done your homework, you understand what you're doing, you understand the outcomes of the choices you're making. In my opinion, that is responsible borrowing. Great, thank you. That's such an important concept that many times we just, we say it but we don't always explain it. Agreed. Okay, so in speaking with prospective students, how do you convey to them a culture of care and support to assure them that they can have confidence in that this is an investment and that they are making a good investment? I take a two pronged approach. So the first prong is acknowledging that this is kind of a scary decision. Like you are going to borrow a lot of money in all likelihood to go to dental school. I mean, for some students, they're borrowing more money than their parents' houses were and that can be frightening. And so I think it's important to acknowledge that upfront to make the students understand that I understand that this is a frightening, it can be an intimidating decision to make. And then the second prong is to then reduce that intimidation. So to talk the students through, okay, this is what borrowing looks like. This might be the amount you have to borrow. This is what your repayment strategies are gonna look like. So while I'd like to use, and in any presentation I do to students about borrowing, I like to use examples of what repayment would potentially look like. So here's a debt level, here's a projected income level, here's what under, I usually like to pick what I consider to be the three basic strategies to learn repayment. So if you wanna pursue an aggressive strategy, this is what it would look like. If you wanna pursue a conservative strategy, this is what it would look like. If you wanna pursue an income-driven strategy, this is what it would look like and walk them through what those different repayment amounts would be under the more common debt levels that I see. But then take that even a step further and say, okay, so here's what your projected income is gonna look like. If you're putting 10% away for retirement, here's what your take-home pay is gonna look like after taxes, here's what that translates into in terms of a monthly income. Here's what your monthly income is gonna look like after you make your loan payment based on the repayment strategy that you're looking at. I mean, I like to take it a step further too and show, so if you're living in Boston, here's what your rent will probably look like, here's what your utilities are probably gonna look like, here's what your food budget should be, all of that, so just to walk them through, put loan repayment in context, walk them through what it actually looks like. And while this is obviously a pretty intensive strategy and does require a fair amount of work, I think the result is worth it because now the student has some confidence that, yes, they're making a decision which on its surface seems kind of scary, but now they understand that it's maybe not as scary as they initially realized. So for me, it's always about education. Everything is the more information I can provide students and the more context I can provide for that information, the better the results are. Great, thank you. You're right, that's an intensive, but you get the information across and it definitely will help students to have a more realistic picture. So I am going to give you just a scenario here that let's think about you have been invited to speak at a graduation ceremony and you are asked to address how upcoming graduates can best prepare for a career in health sciences, looking at it from the financial perspective. So what would you tell them? So if I'm speaking to people getting ready to go to dental school, it's, for me, it's all about education. Go out and get informed, understand that you are going to have to borrow, right? And the vast majority of dental students have to borrow and so educate yourself about the borrowing options. So maybe go out and learn what loan options there are learn about private loans, learn about federal loans and just spend as much time as you can educating yourself about the different loan options. And I think that's going to prepare you for making the decisions that you're ultimately going to have to make. So it's always about education for me first, like go out and learn about what the different options are. If I'm talking to high school students who are thinking then about going on to do a pre-health or whatever in college and then go on to think about then going on to dental school. I mean, I think the message is kind of the same but it's a little bit, I would say it's a little bit, from a broader approach. So instead of talking specifically about, here's the different type of loans you can take advantage of, because they may not be, that's not necessarily a conversation we might need to have at that moment. It becomes a broader sense of from a financial perspective of get used to thinking about like start tracking your expenses while you're in college. That's going to give you sort of a sense of what it takes to feed yourself and house yourself and blow yourself and all that. So start thinking about those things early and then once you get sort of a solid foundation of this is what life costs, now you're in a better position to then, once you're getting ready to go to dental school to start thinking about those specific loans. So I think for the high school students, it's a broader message. Appreciate your contribution, thanks so much. It's my pleasure, thank you. Thank you for being with us for this great webinar and all this great information. As you heard from our panelists, there are many aspects to managing debt while in dental school. Some takeaways to share. Responsible borrowing is key to managing debt. Financial aid offices within our dental schools work hard to create a culture and climate to enable students to understand what they are borrowing and the various options for repayment. And finally, a dental education is an investment in your future and your future finances. Thank you for being with us today and have a great day.


A fiery horse with a speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty, high-o silver, a lone ranger. The Civil War was filled with unrest, even in the western United States. And it was during this period that the masked rider of the planes accomplished some of his greatest work in the cause of justice. With his faithful Indian companion, Tonto, he fought crime and criminals throughout the new territory. And it was he more than any other man who brought law and order to the lawless frontier. Return with us now to those thrilling days when the West was young. From out of the past come the thundering hoofbeats of the great horse Silver. The lone ranger rides again. After Lee's surrender, Doc Withers was mustered out of the army and returned to his wife and daughter in Gilpin County, Colorado. My sakes are live. How have you grown up, Margie?  I do declare. Boy, you old silly. I'm only two years older than I was. Two years is a lot when it turns a girl from 15 to going on 18, Margie. It hasn't changed poor any. No, I'm afraid it ain't. He's still got the same big-hearted look about him that's kept us poor all our lives. Now, Jesse... No, I won't complain, hey. I'm that glad to have you back safe and sound.  It sure was. But by ginger I can say one thing about our company. Them boys all went home in better shape than they was when they joined. I might have known that. I suppose when you was called on to patch up a scratched arm or something you wouldn't rest contented it overhauled the critter in every way. Well, I learned a lot in that there, Army. Jesse... I think so. I can just see your cure and gout and rheumatism and pulling out the teeth that wasn't no good and taking off the corns and everything else when some soldier wanted nothing more than something to cure a stomachache. Oh, ma. I never see a man like your father, Normal and Margie. All was wanting to do ten times as much as he gets paid for. I'll never forget the time he went to Sid Hart's place when the young had the measles. Before he was done, he'd picked up Sid and his wife and all seven of the youngsters and all in the world he'd got for it was half a peccatater. For it they was prime potatoes, Jesse. Well, you're home. And we still got a little cash left in the bank. Now, let's hope you get some customers with cash real soon. There was quite a number of Colorado boys in the Army. I reckon I had most of them in my company. They all come back here? Oh, most of them have foolish notions about fine and gold. Getting rich quick and all that sort of thing. Oh, I heard that Mr. Gabber has come back. Gabber? What? Well, he was captain now, company. Cap, Gabber. So he's back, eh? They were talking about him in the store today. They've talked that he's got a good thing in that old plain he's taken before he went to war. Yeah? Don't know how true it is. Can't trust Gabber any further and I can throw a half a gilpin county. Well, well, Jesse, Cap Gabber's all right. What's the matter with him? He's talk. Talk? He's too dog on slick and smooth. Puts me in mind of a well-greased wagon wheel the way his slick words slide out when he starts talking. Dirt in this woman I ever see. Judge a man because of the way he talks. Just the same, hey, withers, you mark what I say. Ma'am? If Gabber, Gabber gets sick, you make sure he's got cash. If he started a story going round that he's struck a gold mine and that no good claim of his, he's fiction to borrow money. Don't you lend him none. You hear?  Outside of town in the hills of Gilpin County, Cap Gabber lived in the small shack. One morning he worked hard on his claim with pickaxe and shovel for several hours. And then... Back in that old door. The captain threw down his shovel, picked up his rifle, tamped some yellow dust into the muzzle with a ramrod, aimed it at the ground and... Better reload and give her a couple more shots just to make sure. No use taking chances on anything not going right. Gabber reloaded his gun. Once again, tamped yellow dust into the muzzle. You're the most likely critter I know as Dark Withers. Besides, he's got cash money left. Now, right in the same place. The shots echoed and re-eckled through the hills. And miles away, the lone ranger and his faithful Indian companion, Tonto, heard them. Two shots, Tonto. Can you tell where they came from? Sound that way. And that's a third. Three shots. That bad sign. Three shots is the danger signal, Kimosabi. That plenty long way off. Someone may have fallen from a ledge or into an old abandoned shaft. Here, Silver. We ride? Of course we're riding. When people fire three shots, it's because they want help and want it badly. And Tonto, get ready. Here, Scout. You can locate where those shots came from. And Tonto, try. Steady there, Silver. You'll never object to cinching up. We ride east. Maybe find Pellar that way. There aren't any gold mines east of us. That's the reason. We're gold mine located. Plenty Pellar around. We're no gold mine. No one lives. You've hit it. East of here, there are lots of abandoned shafts. Someone has probably dropped into one. Ready? You ready? Come on, Scout. Three shots. The danger signal started the Lone Ranger and Tonto on a search for trouble. They went along the narrow trails listening for the signal to be repeated. But when no more shots were heard, Tonto's sense of direction became their only guide. Several hours passed. And then halfway down a hill, two men there, Tonto. They don't seem to be in any trouble. And one Pellar-deacon ground. There's a shack there, too. I didn't know there were any prospectors in this part of the county. No gold here. I suppose a lot of men from the Army came out here. I've heard of the mustering out of the soldiers. There weren't so many of them headed west. We'll see what those two are doing. I doubted the signal we heard could have meant anything. It hasn't been repeated. Quiet, boy. Just dig your own sample, Doc. That's the best way. I don't want you to have any idea why I'm trying to put anything over on you. But, guys, Captain Gabby, I don't know nothing about gold. If this here was cutting some poor critter up or curing aches and pains or something. You don't have to know anything about gold mining. You know the gold's worth money, don't you? Sure, I do. You know that there's an office in town that'll say your gold sample and tell you just what the claimers were. Heard about it. I reckon that's a sample. Now, I'll hold the sack down, throw it in. You see here, you see all these yellow flags? Gold, my friend. Pure gold. The queen of the metals. The gold that men die for. The gold that turns a poor man into a king. The metal that'll buy your wife and daughter all the things that bring joy to a woman's heart. Imagine travel. Take them to the big cities. New York, Chicago. And buy them fine silks and jewels. Why, you can take them to Europe if you want to. But, guys, Captain Gabby... Now, Doc, I told in the army that I'd never forget what you did for these boys. I know, Captain. You see, I want to pay them a debt. Besides, I must leave here. Relatives in the east, you know. Can't stay on and I must sell my claim. And I want to be sure the man who gets it will be a deserving man. And that's why I called you. You say all this yellow stuff is gold? That's right. How much you reckon this sack is worth? Oh, that doesn't amount to anything. Well, you dug that with only a few shovels and that was off the surface. Your war gets richer as you dig deeper. But what do you reckon she'd be worth?  Take it to town. A clerk there can tell you. I'll go with you. And if you want to grab this chance, we can close the deal right there on the spot. There. Just look, Jesse. Look. Silk for a new dress for you. One for Maggie. A new silk dress. Oh, Paul. You've been hitting our savings bank account. And here, Jesse, see this. These here earrings come all the way from New York. They're for you. And you know, all I had to do to pay for the whole thing? Throw out our savings. No, sirree. I stuck a spade in the ground. Dumped the ground to a sack and that was it. It was gold enough and just what I'd dug in two minutes, mind you, to buy all that. You've been talking to Gabby? Why, we're going to... Huh? Hey, Wither. That's not it, Jesse. He had to leave. His folks in the east needed him. He wanted to repay me for all I'd done for the soldiers in his company. How much? Now, look here now. I said how much did you give that Swindlin steam and talking crook? Well, what's the odds? We're going to be rich.  I told you to watch that galute.  No, ma'am. Maybe Paul had enough savings. I did. That's just it. Gabby went right to the office with me. I bet he did. I paid him for his claim. I'd give him just $600. $600? Well, he wanted $2,000. We only had $600. So you'd give him all we had. Oh, hey. Oh. Ma, stop crying. Stop taking on so. We haven't lost the house yet. And you don't know a thing about this gold mine. For all we know, it might be real. With Gabby selling it so cheap, there ain't a chance of it. Well, anyway, there's no harm in waiting till we find out. Now, Paul takes the more of the ground into the assay office tomorrow, won't you, Paul? Oh, oh, yeah. A sure thing, Margie. Ma, you put off crying till we hear what's wrong. On the following day, Doc Willard paced the floor of the assay office while he waited for his report. Finally, the clerk came out of the small back room and... You got the report? You got her finished? It's all done, Doc. Well, well, speak up. What's it worth? Did you get this from the same place you did the sample yesterday? Sure, same claim, same place. Tell me what she's worth. I'm waiting. Look, Doc, why do you want to fiddle around with gold? The folks here need a doctor a sight more than they need another prospect. Never mind the side-tracking me, Jim. Give me the report. What's she worth?  What do you mean? Ain't it as good as yesterday? Well, Tain is good. Well, what's it worth a ton? Nothing. What? Doc, that stuff you brought in is the same as the pack of the samples I've seen. Parities, fools' gold. That's all tears. You mean to say I... I've been stung? Doc. What do you mean? I'm going to be a doctor with this. Mass, where in time did you come from? Who are you? Is this here's a robbery? Of course it isn't a robbery. Maybe the doctor just dug in the wrong place for his sample of ore. You come with me. Well, where are you going? There's a man who needs your attention badly. Are you coming or will I take you? You mean I've got a patient? Come on. You needn't be so all fired. Definitely about it, stranger. And you needn't say too much where that clerk can hear you. Here he is, Tudder. Excuse me. What's he with it? He's not the patient, doctor. It's your own welfare that we're going to take care of right now. Eh? You've been swindled and very badly, but it needn't be the finish. That man, Gavir, pulled an old, old trick on you. I was afraid of that after talking with Jesse.  But you're not. You have more of a savings account than either you or your wife realized. I know what my savings was. But you didn't. Then you still don't. You stored up a reserve that's worth a lot more than cash. Do you realize the number of men in this part of the country that would break their necks to help you? Well, I can't ask for help. I made my bed. Now I've got... You've got to listen to me. But who are you? Come on, you'll ride with me on silver. Now look, stranger. Before I ride with you, you've got to take... We don't want to waste time. Hey, hey, what are you doing? That's Jesse. Tell her you'll see you later. You're going back to the claim right now. Get down from there. Jesse, I'm going to the claim. Get down! But I can't do it. This gent... This man here... Yeah, come back. I'll see you soon. Ranger Story. Before the next exciting scenes, please permit us to pause for just a few moments. Duran Tonto rode out of town with Doc Withers and headed for the claim. When they reached the shack where Gabber had lived, the masked man outlined a series of improvements. Build out from this side of the shack for a big living room. And then from that side, they make a kitchen and bedrooms. The shack itself will become a hall. Well, at their house, you describe it as strange. It would cost a mint of money. And back there, you'll have a saddle shed and stables to take care of 20 horses. Oh, now look. This is all grand talk. The shack will serve as your office for the time being, you see. We'll put about 10 men to work on digging the mine. The dirt will fly when they get started. Oh, that's enough. I can't listen to such tommy rot. Well, I don't have a dime.  You have a reserve account to draw from. No, I haven't. There are at least 20 men in this part of the country. They'll all help you. But strangely... You'll give me the names of the men that you count on as your friends and let me do the rest. Just act as if you were going to pay them handsomely for their work. Well, I ain't that good an actor. I can't pay a thing. You'll pay them all and then cash. And while we're at it, we're going to fix up your house and town. Now, sit down somewhere and give me that list of names. But, Stranger! Come with us. I don't know. I have a lot of writing to do. New to do nothing, but keep quiet. Keep quiet and remember that you're going to spend a lot of money. Lots of money. Lone Ranger and Tato rode in opposite directions, calling on Silver and Scout at a greater speed. When the masked man reached the home of Caleb Walters, he rained up and shouted, Caleb! Caleb! Come out here! A war team! It's Doc Withers. A good old doc. What's about him? Take your best horse and a wagon and tools. He wants you to work for him. He needs you. I'd give my arm for him.  He wants you to help him. What I got's his. A where I'll go and win. Withers? You bet I'll go to him. Maggie! Maggie packed things up. We're helping for Doc Withers' place. He needs it. Come on, Silver. We have six more men to see. Doc only knew how these men are rushing to his help and realized that money isn't everything. Help, Silver! Four nights all, a dozen men were riding toward the little shack in the hills of Gilpin County. Their own work was set aside. It was Doc Withers who needed them and they welcomed the chance to help the generous old man they loved. Hi, Pete! Where you going? Doc Withers! Doc Withers? I'll beat you there! Hey, boys! Hey, Singers and Pittsburgh! Yippee! It's the old 79-part Hillary getting together again. Doc Withers sent for me. Uh, we're all going there. There's Steve Jackson coming in from the south. Get up there, boys! Wagons of every description. Men on horseback. Men who had fought side-by-side through the shot and shell of war. United once again to serve a common cause. As they neared their destination, they saw more friends coming from the west. The men who had been called by tanto. A rousing cry rose from both parties. What Doc Withers wants? Where's Doc? And then from the north raced a solitary rider on a snow-white horse. The man who had brought them together. He rained up and... I'll show you the way, men. Dr. Withers is waiting north of here. Just show us. Lead the way. We're right behind. Tell it off. The 79's is here. There was a gala reunion when the men reached the worthless claim that Dr. Withers had bought. The doctor listened in amazement while the lone ranger took charge and explained his plan. Then the work began. The men divided into three groups and one went to work with their axes on the nearest trees. As the trees fell, their branches were locked off and trimmed. Construction work began. Foundation piles were set in place. Then stringers and risers. A huge addition to the shack began to take form. In town, the second gang went to work remodeling and enlarging the little Withers' home in spite of Mrs. Withers' protests. That man took leave of his senses. Margie, what's got into him? I don't know, Ma, but we're sure going to have a scrumptious play. Gabber heard the talk that circulated around town. Finally, his curiosity got the better of him. He wrote out to the claim and found Dr. Withers. Well, Withers, thought I'd find you here. What's going on around this place, huh? Oh, Captain Gabber. I see you're hollering up the oar. Oh, sure. There ain't no good laying there in the ground, you know. I was wondering where you were taking it. Captain Gabber, I'm afraid I can't tell you that. You don't know? Well, you see, I sort of got a partner now. And he's made me promise not to say anything. The gold content there. Funny thing, Captain Gabber. Tamed gold is here. Not gold. Sharks know. I bet you the rate of dollars worth of gold and 10 tons of that there's stuff. Not 100 tons of it. Then what is the value? Perhaps silver? You'd never guess it in a million years, Cap. Oh, here comes Margie. Woo, woo, woo, woo. Oh, I wrote over to tell you. Buy and buy, Margie. Right now I'm busy with Captain Gabber. I just wanted to tell you it's going to cost about $3,000 for the things we want to do at the house. $3,000, eh? Well, I thought I'd let you know because the first of the month is payday. You'll want to see about having a little cash sent here from... From where, Miss Withers? Oh, I most forgot. I shouldn't say anything in front of strangers, should I, Pa? Strangers? Just hear the girl, Doc, calling me a stranger. White child. I'm the man who sold this to your father. Tell her about me, Doc. I'm still not supposed to say anything. You know what the mask man said, Pa? Yes, that's right, Margie. Just so. We've got to keep our own council these days. Yes, man. Who? Oh, uh, stand over there, Cap. See that tall, gent watching the digging? Oh, yeah. He's, uh, sort in charge, you see. Can't say nothing without him. Well, I'll go and say hello to him, if you don't mind. Mind? Sure not. I'd heap sooner you talk to him. Go right ahead, Cap. Go right ahead. All right. So long, Doc. Bye, Miss. Get up, boy. Get over there. Get over there. Don, crooked old tenant. Ain't it funny the way Cap Gabby's nosing around, Margie? Oh, I'm worried. We're pounding up a side of debt. I'm worried about that, too, honey. But the mask man says to set tight and say nothing. Yeah, ma's most beside herself with all that's going on. Oh, uh, what was that message you fetched, ma'am? Oh, oh, that. I just did what the mask man told me to. Look, Pa. Look at Gabby turning his smile on the mask man. Gabby spent a restless night for the next day called it to claim again. He watched the construction and tried to talk with the mask man once more. The Lone Ranger had no time for him. Then, in desperation, Gabby went to the sheriff. I'll see that you took care of him. You helped me, Sheriff. Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Why, sure I am. I don't know, Gabby. I know what I'm talking about. That claim's worth a fortune. I'm not fooled by the way that mask man and Doc Wither say it ain't. Well, they got something there I want. I got all my cash here every dime of it. I aim to make a deal or bust. And I want you alone to witness it so as Wither's can't back down by and by. Well, if you know what you're doing, it ain't no skin off my nose. Come on. Where is Doc Wither? At the mine, of course. Spends all his time there watching himself get rich. Let's get started. Wither! Hey, Doc! What's holding your mind now, Gabby? Howdy, Jim. Howdy. Doc, I sold you this plane for a song. You know that. Well... And the only reason the world I was willing to take such a sacrifice was that I... Well, I know you didn't have no more cash. I thought I had to go east. And now I don't have to go and... Well, it ain't right or fair for you to hold me to my bargain. Gabby, who are you getting at?  Doc, you can't do that. First place, look at all the improvement I've done. Second place, that mask man... Now, look. You got any written agreement with him? Well, no. It's all right, then. You own the claim. You can do what you want with it. I brought the sheriff here to tell you so. But, Captain, ain't no goalie that... I ain't worried about that.  Ain't that so? Well... Yeah. The mask man found the place. And it's proven right valuable, ain't it? Well, it would have some value. Some? Oh, I should smile.  You'll be fair with me. I'm willing to pay for all the expense you've gone to. Well, I've had a lot of men working. I reckon they must have got thousands of dollars' worth of work done. Oh, I'll pay for that. You let me hear the claim back. That's fair, ain't it? Well, Gabby, you shouldn't do that sort of thing, Dad. Right at all. I ain't complaining about the deal. Even if there ain't no gold in the claim. Aside from everything else, I misled you. There wasn't gold here, so I misrepresented the one I make good. But don't you see, I wouldn't want to take around $5,000 off you for what you might call nothing. Well, I only have 4,000 cash, but I'd give you back your mortgage. Now will you do it? Oh, the mask man might like it. He's got nothing to say. There's only one thing that I have to know, of course, and that is where you're taking that dirt. Oh, I'd be willing to let you in on that. Provide and I take your offer. I've got a paper all drawn up here now on your mortgage, and here's the cash. Now you've got to do a sign right here. Here. You've got the deed, of course, but you can give me that later on. Well, now remember, Cap, you've got to help me out if that mask man objects to this. Oh, sure, sure, sure thing, Doc. I'll just sign there. Here? That's it. That's it. Oh, there you are. Oh, all the dreams I have. There, there, there. Now I'll share a few signs so it's legal. Good work, Dr. Withers. I've got the cash.  Now remember, Gabby, we told you the darn thing's no good. Where are you taking the ore to? That's what I want to know. You'll find a bad swamp just beyond the next hill, Gabby. Swamp? These men have been working hard to hold dirt to that swamp and fill it in. When that job is done, a road can be built there. Where's the cash coming from? You just gave the cash to Dr. Withers. He'll pay the men with that. I mean, what have you been digging for? Dirt to fill in the swamp. Hold on! You were told the land was worthless. You knew it was worthless, but you thought no one could tell the truth. Sheriff! Sheriff, I've been fleeced! It serves your time well right. You thought to swindle, Doc, huh? You didn't know that the Lone Ranger was his friend. Lone Ranger? You ain't a mining expert. We can leave now, Tanna. He'll get what was coming to you, Gabby. Doc got his home ore fixed up and the swamps filled in and all Doc's friends have had some work for ready cash. We're more breached here than ever, Doc. And I got... I got a half-built mess of house in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, Doc, what you deserve? Help! Help! Tirt is a copyrighted feature of the Lone Ranger Incorporated.