Okay. Hey. Hey, I'm Chris. I switched companies. I work for Twitter now. And I'm still doing kind of the same stuff as I did at Oracle. So I'm still working on compilers and I'm actually surprised that there are so many people here today. Usually the room's empty when I talk about compilers. So we're trying to grow that Twitter, you know, I say experience in a production environment. That means we are not running it really in production, but we tried it. And I'll show a bunch of graphs later how that works out. So I know all of you have Twitter accounts.  So a little bit about Twitter. You all know Twitter as a service. This is how it looks like. So it's a huge distributed system. We have many, many services. We have the tweet, the main tweet service, which reads and writes tweets, and then user service, timeline service, social graph service, you know, all the difference. So these are the kind of the main ones. And the service, it's many JVMs per service, right? We run tons and tons of them. We have thousands of machines and running thousands of JVMs. And we have multiple data centers. So there's a lot of stuff going on. So if we can cut down with, you know, on maybe CPU time or memory usage, this pays off a lot. Twitter is doing open source. So we love open source. We are using many projects. We're giving back to the community. This is the link where you can find all the projects. I think, actually, all of it is on GitHub. I might be wrong, but. So Grail is a good fit for us in general and because it's open source. And we are planning, if we find something that we can optimize, we definitely contribute it back. So Twitter internally, we have our own JDK. It's based on an open JDK right now, eight update. We're in the works of open sourcing our stuff. From what I've heard, we've done over the last couple years some GC optimizations, but I think almost all of it is already upstream. So I did this. I backported JVMCI to our own eight JDK so that we can actually run Grail. We have something called Contrail. It's basically a JFR replacement. I'm not talking about this. And CMS improvements, but as I said, what I've heard, it's all upstream now. So why Grail? I think every time I'm here, I'm talking about this. I've worked on C2 for a very long time and it's very complicated and it's not really getting better. There's work being done to clean it up a little bit but it's still the same old complex code. It's the learning curve. It's way, way too steep. We've noticed that over the years when we hired new people, it's like these people, they need to learn for years and years until they can actually work on C2. In my opinion, there were no major optimizations in the last couple years for C2. Most of the stuff that's done for C2 is some intrinsic stuff, but there was no new, as Cape analysis implementation or not really an improvement with inlining and all that stuff. There was a little bit, but that's another topic. And in my opinion, it's reached its end of life already a long time ago. So Grail's learning curve is much shorter for people who have looked at the code. We talked about it, yes. But compared to C2, I think it's shorter. You have the advantages of Java compared to the C++ version that Hotspot's using. You can't use any utility stuff. And it's highly modularized. So it's kind of an old snapshot. I don't know if it's still true, but it has like 83 words in that area. Different modules that have, there are no circular dependencies. The build system takes care of that and makes sure you don't introduce circular dependencies. And so everything's, you have platform independent modules and then you have platform dependent modules that implement stuff for your CPU architectures and so on and so on. Okay, so we've ran Grail at Twitter and we found a few bugs. So actually not that many. We basically only found two. I'm talking about three bugs here now, just two. So do you have an idea of the things we noticed? This one, I think I actually noticed that one even before I started running stuff at Twitter, it's basically, Grail does not support certain on stack replacement compilations, which turns out could be an issue. So when you turn on print compilation, it looks something like this. It says, oh, I can't do an OSR with locks. And Tom, Tom Rodriguez, and I would discuss this a little bit. Then the way Grail is currently set up in its tiered environment, it's not really a problem because what happens, you get this message a couple times. I can't remember the number, a hundred or a thousand, I don't know. And then the tier compilation system says, okay, I'm not compiling this with tier four anymore. So I just compile it with tier one and it compiles it with C1 and it's basically fine. It could be an issue if it's a very preferring sensitive method, but I've not found a case where that's an issue. So, bug 128 is still open, so if someone wants to go and fix it, please do it. I don't have time right now to do that. So this is a real bug that I found while running, I think it was the tweet service actually. The thing you want to notice is this one here. It had to run for a couple of days until it crashed, but it crashed consistently. So I was trying to figure out what this is and then eventually I figured out that it's this thing called heapster that we used to analyze the heap. So it's basically a bytecode instrumentation thing. Oh yeah, here it is. That's the GitHub page and provides an agent library to do heap profiling and so on. So we use that. And it turned out I'm not going into the details here because we don't have the time, but this is a snapshot of the discussion we had on the GitHub page. It had to do with intrinsics basically. So there and the one that failed was the double value off because it's part of the core library and it's used by Graal itself, but then it got instrumented because it does a new object and so on. So that was basically the issue. This one was closed. There was a lot of big changes you can see. So 65 files had to be touched, but now it works. This one was annoying too. So I renamed it later when I figured out actually what it was, but this is what happens. We saw these weird exceptions flying by tons and tons of IO exceptions and I couldn't figure out why. And so some day I decided to run the neti4 test. Someone told me, ah, some of our services have just upgraded from neti3 to neti4 and I thought okay, I'll run the test. We went out. And this is what happened. Neti buffer failure. All right. So this one was a really, really awkward one because reverse bytes didn't work. And you would think if that doesn't work, something else will break, right? But it didn't. It never did. It basically was wrong from day one, but just in this particular case it didn't. So Tom fixed it. We're out of small fix, but and these were the only two real bugs that we found. Everything else just worked fine. So and now I'm coming to, I think the more important and interesting part, a couple of performance graphs and stuff. So I use the Tweet service because it's our main service. It's a finagle thrift service. You can download finagle from that page, play around with it. I have dedicated machines for these testings and all of the instances receive the exact same requests. So not even the number of requests is the same. It's the exact same request. So they, and it's read only by the way. So because this is in a staging environment, we kind of write tweets, but we read tweets. And we read the same tweets. And I've ran this with the Gravium 0.17 with the JVM. So this slide is only to show you what the load looks like. All of the graphs are 24 hours. It's one day. And there are two colors in here, blue, C2, and the orange one is Graal. And you can see, okay, it gets the same requests throughout the day. I picked this particular snapshot because you have pretty high loads, but you have this plateau down here with low load. I don't know why this happened, and it doesn't really matter. But it's a good example to see the difference between high and low loads. So most of the graphs that I'm showing, they have a moving average, because then it's easier to see what's happening. So this one's using a moving average of 60 minutes. And these are the scavenge cycles that are happening. I cannot, yeah, I should mention this. I cannot show you the y-axis, because I'm not allowed to. It's confidential information, so I have to basically tell you what the percentages are. So here what we're seeing is between one and two percent less scavenge cycles with Graal. That's mainly because of the better escape analysis. So you produce less garbage. And so that means you have one to two percent less scavenge cycles. This is the scavenge time. This is, again, moving average 10 minutes now. And I think all the following slides are also moving average 10. So there are two things to say here. Because we have less scavenge cycles, and the reason we have less scavenge cycles is we have less garbage in the young generations. And so it takes a long time to fill it up. But when it fills it up, and it hits basically the thresholds that it kicks off at GC, you have less garbage in it, more life objects. And that means the collection then takes longer. So this, I think it's somewhere here. It's like over here. It's a maximum 30 percent more scavenge time, which is quite a lot. But usually it's between 10 and 20 percent. Still a lot compared to only one to two percent less cycles. This is the old gen. We have one, two, three, four cycles in a day. The interesting part here is this. So the old occupancy when you run Grawl is higher. It's because Grawl is a Java program. It has state. And so this is the state of Grawl. And it's between 10, over here, I think that's 10 megabytes and 60 megabytes. You have to account for that. So there are multiple ways to deal with that right now. There's no real way to deal with it. You can just increase your old gen size by 60 megabytes, and you're basically back to where you were. But it's important to notice that this is happening. No, the old generation in the heap, Java heap. Oh, not old. So there's P99 latencies for Tweet reads. I think, again, this one's a moving average of 10 minutes. There's some awkward spikes in here at C2. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. But what do you see? What are my notes? Oh, yeah. You cannot really see a lot here. This graph down here is basically an integrate over the graph up here. And so the difference, it's hard to see here. There's a difference. Grawl is slightly higher, 1% more. So you have 1% worse P99 latencies. And this is probably very likely because of the highest Kevin's times. It's easier to see with the P49 latencies because, and the difference is then, what is it? 2.5% more. That's what you're paying. Oh, it's the request time of a Tweet. Yeah. So for this one, I could show the y-axis, actually. It's split out. This is user CPU time, and this is system CPU time. I did it because it's very interesting down here. You have slightly better, what are the notes? Up to 4% better user CPU time. I think this is because you have less Kevin's cycles. So that means you have less CPU time usage. And also, I think it produces slightly tighter code. The interesting part down here is that how much is it? Under load, 4% worse. Yeah, 4%. So this is 4% worse system CPU time, which I cannot explain. I don't know why. I have no idea. But since the overall system CPU time is only between, what, 15% and 20% and you have 4% more of that, it doesn't really matter. This one's a very interesting graph. How am I doing with time? Pretty good. This one's a pretty interesting graph. So what it does, it shows you how many GC, this one, and CPU milliseconds, no, how many tweets per GC and CPU milliseconds it can send out, basically. And so, higher is better here. And you can see that the GC, for the GC milliseconds, C2 is basically always better. And that's because the, what was it, like, 20%, 30% higher Kevin's cycle times. This is that graph. But on the other hand, when you look at CPU time, you can see that the growl, especially when the load is low, that growls better. So this is what is, the top graph, you see it's 20% less. And the bottom graph, CPU, up to 8% better is probably here somewhere. But, yeah, but only when the load's low. It's basically the same here. And then if you remember the first graph I showed you, this was a pretty high load. And then it went down again and you can see that the graphs go like this. Yeah, this is pretty much what we've seen so far. I tried to come up with a summary slide. This is basically the only thing I could come up with. We could, in theory, replace C2 with growl at Twitter today. There's an issue with the P49 time. Some people care about that at Twitter. And 4% might be too much. I played around with, you know, the thing I mentioned with the young gen and the scavengers taking longer because you have more life objects in it. And then the old gen, the slightly higher occupancy of the old gen. I tried to change the ratio of the young sizes and the old sizes to maybe come to a point where I can get the scavenged times back to where they were. And the old gen, you know, slightly bigger so that we have the same number of old cycles. So far I haven't found the right ratio. So that's why I didn't show it because I couldn't get anywhere near the scavenged times. So I have to spend more time on doing that. Yeah, that's it. I have a ton more slides, but I don't have time to show them. But five minutes left. There you go. Yeah, I can take questions now. So besides the two bugs that I've shown that actually crashed, it hasn't crashed. No, but I have not run it on a thousand machines. Right. So in production, I've ran it once in real production, but it was only one machine. And the dedicated machines I have, it's basically per configurations one machine. But I've ran them for, I don't know, a week or two. And I've not seen any issues so far. And we restart our services pretty frequently. So it's there not running a year, right? Because when we update the software, we have to restart them, of course. I think I'll take a short question. What are the typical CPU utilization in Twitter? CPU load, maybe? It's basically the one graph I showed you. About 20%, so things like that. No, I mean, the graph I showed you, it's not, so the y-axis was a course, that's what they call it. So it really depends on the load you get, but it can go up to, and there's not, we have multiple services running on one machine, for example. So it's, you know. So what is the performance of the compiler itself, compared to C2? So how fast does it compile a method? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm right. I haven't mentioned that. So one thing I completely left out is the issue of the warm-up startup problem, which for, I guess, for a lot of people is an issue. But for Twitter it's not. Because you have to compile your compiler, right? Because it's Java, and it's not AOT compiler because it's A. But it only adds, in the tiered environment, the way it's set up today is that GROG gets compiled with C1 only. You can tweak that, you can switch it in a way that actually GROG compiles itself, but the default way is that C1 compiles it. So it's pretty fast to compile GROG itself. And it adds about, I think I tried it, starting up an empty Eclipse workspace or something like this. It adds about 20% of the run time, or the startup time. But it's only in the first 20 to 30 seconds, right? And then the throughput. If you compile it with C1 only, it's not as good, obviously. Because C1 is not doing that many optimizations. But if you compile it with GROG itself, it's about the same. Kind of continue the topic.  Do you measure, you know, if the drop back, the time it takes to recompile it, make given method is longer than the one with C2, or is it on pair, and unnoticeable difference? It's about the same. I mean, at the time when it depends on when it happens. If it happens later in the game, when GROG's already warmed up and everything's compiled, it's about the same. But if it happens earlier, it might, because it's an OSR, it might trigger some paths in GROG itself that are not compiled yet, which means you have a slight delay. But it's not that bad. So really cool work. And do you think there's anything in particular in Twitter's environment that makes GROG perform this close to C2? I mean, at least from my point of view, they are really close. Right. Are there any benefits of running in the Twitter infrastructure compared to just letting this loose on all kinds of applications? I don't really know. Most of Twitter's services, almost all of our software is Scala. I don't think anyone has put some work into optimizing GROG for Scala, but it seems to just work fine. So it definitely depends on the code shape, but it seems the stuff we're doing, like this service-based, finagle, whatever stuff, it seems to work fine, yeah? There are definitely other cases where it's not that good. I might have shown this last year. I can't remember a year before. When you run spec JBB with GROG, it's like 20% slower. Hey, Chris. How does the additional heap required translate into overall reserved memory compared to C2? Because I imagine Hotspot has its own data, but it's off it. Yeah, yeah, right. So there's something there. It's not... Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I've not done this measurement in quite some time, but I've done it a few years ago. How much memory is C2 using when it compiles stuff and how much is GROG using when it compiles stuff? C2 can spike up to 500 megabytes before compilations. I mean, these are the outliers and it needs to be a huge method with lots of loop optimization stuff going on, but it can spike a lot. And usually, you don't see that. You see it with GROG because it's on your Java heap, right? So it's much more visible. So back then, when I measured this, if you run with compressed loops, you're actually using less memory than C2. But if you run with the regular references, it was slightly more. But I'm really hoping for value types and all that stuff to help out here because it's basically a compiler graph. This is the biggest thing. And if you have value types for that, that will be really cool. So I'm just waiting for that. Okay, that's it. Thank you.


What math course is right for you? Math 111, College Algebra. So Math 111 is called College Algebra and that's for students that they just need a math class for their AA or nursing students sometimes needed and it's just basically if you need one class then move on with your math, being done with your math is 111. Also some business students need 111 and then after this they need the business calculus. Why did you take Math 111? I decided to take College Algebra 111 not by choice. My degree requires that I meet the College Algebra requirement and so I've worked my way from 71 to 81 to 91 to now 111. I took Math 111 because it's a prerequisite for business calculus which is a class that's needed for my business degree. I took this math class because my advisor suggested that I get the basics of algebra and get really strong in that part of math because the next step for me would be going into business calculus and it will just really prepare me for all the other math courses I want to take and it's better to start even though it's like a lower level in the grand scheme of things it's better to get the basics and get really strong in those before I move on. I teach math starting from 91 all the way to 153 so far so depending on each quarter I make sure of a little bit lower algebra to upper calculus. What advice would you give to students taking Math 111? Get ahead on homework. Do it two to three days ahead as soon as it's released get your hands on it and then make your way to the tutor lab as well and that way if you ever stumble or you're stuck instead of letting it sit and last minute you don't get any help you're there with a tutor in order for them to assist you through that difficult situation. Advice I would give to students would be to utilize degree audit the tool that Highland has on its website it's really helpful in helping you to plan your future like knowing what classes you need to take and really help me and so I'm on track to I'm running start student and I'm on track to getting my associate's of business by the time I graduate so. The advice I'd give to students taking this course is to definitely not shy away from the math resource center. Highline and the students that work there they put a lot of time and effort into making it work for everyone that wants to participate. I would say get connected with resources on campus. I luckily had the opportunity to do a trio math foundation course which it provided an assistant course to my math 91 which was like pivotal in my math success and then also I would say get to know your professor really spend time at the beginning of the quarter going into their office hours. If you have questions come to office hours I try to help you however I can it's really being willing to learn if you're here to learn you can be successful and everybody can do it if they know how to and don't let that not knowing that lack of knowledge stop you come to me come to your advisors and just ask what should I do to be successful and we will definitely help you with that.


Together, you can stay on track and make progress toward a prosperous future if you and your partner set both long-term and short-term financial objectives. It's upsetting to find that just as you've gotten your financial life under control, you may have to make changes to accommodate your partner. As a couple, you may be tempted to avoid discussing money for a number of reasons. It's uncomfortable when you and your partner have divergent views on the importance of money in your lives, differing plans for the future, or inconsistent approaches to managing your money. Whether you and your partner are merging your funds or maintaining separate accounts, it can be challenging to reconcile your divergent views on how best to handle your financial situation into a cohesive strategy. However, if a couple can find common ground on the topic of money, they are less likely to have the kind of heated disagreements that might strain or even end their relationship. The fact about money is that it can stir up strong feelings. It's tough to compartmentalize it for major life decisions like career, family, and routine activities. The partnership can run into difficulty if money is avoided during important conversations. Tell me what you think about the importance of talking about money in a relationship. Is there a huge communication gap between you and your partner that has led to major financial difficulties in your relationship? Please comment below with your opinions.


This is the regular Select Forward Meeting for Monday, March 19th, and because it's the first of the year, we're due for reorganization, so as Vice Chair, I open the floor for nominations for Chair. I nominate Brad Towne. Are there any other nominations? Hearing none, all in favor of Brad Towne being Chair, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Brad, congratulations. Thank you. I'll turn it over to you. Have any motions for Vice Chair? I'll nominate Jeremy Hanson as Vice Chair. Any second? Aye. Any other nominations? Hearing none, those in favor of Jeremy Hanson as Vice Chair, say aye. Aye. Opposed? And now nominations for Secretary. I nominate Wayne Lamberton. And a second? Sure. And any other nominations? Hearing none, those in favor? Aye. Congratulations, Wayne. Who was the second on the last one? Jeremy? Yeah. Thank you. And let's see here. Additions or changes to the agenda? I have no changes to be termed. And public comment? Hearing none. Chuck Storrell, rolling them all. Mr. Chairman, if I could just have Guy-Ann could pass, because she's got just a short. Okay. And I could, that way, I don't have to pay her half when she goes. Well, I'll turn it in for a quick reading. I always say what I think. Okay. The pressure report. I provided the February Delinquent Tax Reports, Budget Status Report, and the Final Trial Balance and the Trial Balance to the Select Court. And I wanted to talk a little bit about tax sales information. Four of the five people that I sent tax sales letters to want to go to the Board of Batement. And I've talked with a town clerk. She's saying that she's going to have a meeting probably at the end of March, the beginning of April, for that. And I'll keep you aware when that happens. And then nine of the people that I have sent tax letters to have made payment arrangements. And some of them have already made some payments. And some of the payments fall to this. Excellent. But there are seven that still have not made any payments. So those will be going to the attorney for possible tax sale. So I wanted to make you aware of the status of that. And that's all I've got. Mr. Storrow. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, folks. Chuck Storrow, lawyer for Berlin Mall. I'm here to follow up on my conversation with you at the March 5 meeting. Relative to trying to bring to resolution this issue of the ownership of the mall's access road to Route 62, rather than going over that whole background there, just reference the fact that the board did vote at that March 5 meeting to take over a 50 foot stretch of that access road, subject to seeing, you know, a language about maintenance with, you know, the understanding here being that the mall will continue to maintain that road. I followed up and sent Dana and a few members of opposed instrument in that regard. So I'm here to hopefully get it signed by you. I had sent that over to Rob Halper and he had no objection to it. He did mention he had not seen the map. This is the map that was recorded and it doesn't really feel off to me to be honest. Yeah, okay. He did not feel that we needed to have a public hearing on this because... Do we have to name it? Do we have to name it? Do we have to have a hearing to name it if we choose to do that? Yes, you would. Yep, that's the survey that Wayne Lawrence did. Oh gosh, what's the date that Dana... 87. 87, as built drawing of the whole mall property and everything on it. Here's the property line between the mall's property and the state's land. And we'd be taking over, or you would be taking over 50 feet of this road from that property line there. 60 foot wide centered on the center line of the travel portion of that. So it's pretty straightforward. And it's a good... I was trying to find the agreement. We did classify it as a class 4 road. That's what the instrument provides, that you take it as a class 4 road. And I put in on the maintenance language, the language from the statute dealing with the town's obligation to maintain class 3 roads. Figuring that if we made it to the degree that a town would be required to do for a class 3 road that should be sufficient. Basically it has to be, you know, usable year round by a regular standard passenger vehicle. I guess I still have reservations about this in terms of the real character of the town and having heard some feedback from residents about this. I'm just not personally interested in seeing Berlin, even with additional development over by the mall, of this becoming another Williston looking area. Again, like I said the last time, this is really kind of falling through on something that the town started off with in the late 70s when this property that's currently owned by my client was being contemplated by development and the town petitioned the transportation board and was pretty clear in doing that that it would be a public highway. D-Trans is interested in this issue because strictly speaking, that's a limited access highway route 62 and you're not supposed to have a private road going to it. So it's been out there for 30 plus years, really no real problems, except that every now and then it rears its head and Act 250 says things, you know, that's supposed to be a town road. We can't control that. We bought them all in 2010 and trying to, you know, just square away something that shouldn't have dealt with a long time ago. So I have to say I was rather young in the 70s and did not have a say in that decision but I do get to have a say in this decision. I mean, the purpose again, just to re-state the purpose of us taking over this road is so that you can clear trees in there so that people can see a restaurant from route 62. Is that accurate? Yes and no. There's immediately a property project in the works to do a restaurant that would involve some tree clearing on state land but irregardless of that, this is an issue that applies, you know, not specific to that. Something that came up when we went to replace the sign out there and Act 250 said, oh, you know, that was supposed to have been a town road and we had to go through a lot of yacking with the Natural Resources Board on that if we ever did something else within the mall property. It could be an issue, so, you know, being prompted at the hearing now by the potential development of that portion of the property with the restaurant, but it's something that, you know, it's just out there that V-Trans wants to have it square away. We're kind of neutral. We're kind of caught in the middle. We'd like to get a resolve so that it's no longer an issue. It's your call. Well, I thought we pretty much agreed. We wanted to see a contract that was written up. I can't for some reason bring mine up to... I've got copies. But I was able to review that and if it's something we agreed to move forward with, in the minutes, we agreed to, once we saw the contractual paperwork, which I read tonight, I don't know if it's been reviewed by the town attorney or... This paperwork has been, yes. What his thoughts were? His thoughts, he had no issue with it. As I mentioned, he did mention he did not have the map to look at, which he didn't. And he also mentioned in many times when you're taking a road over, like in a development, most likely, there would be a public hearing. In this case, because of the... And I've forgotten the term of how it is, description or... Dedication, medications. And acceptance, he didn't feel that a public hearing was necessary. So he has reviewed the document. And sort of to address your concerns, Jerry, it's a little bit like back in the day when Act 251 had every house to have 10 acres. And then they decided to do cluster housing and leave more land. It seems like this is the area that Berlin's developing. And I would rather see more development here than the rest of the town left alone than to try to spread it all over the neighborhood. We're not the size of the world, so we don't have the population or the money of that area. And I'm in favor of allowing them all to be a mall to serve the folks that are here as best they can. And I don't have a problem if they cut some trees down. I'd like to keep it right when they're doing it. We do have vacant buildings in Berlin, vacant store fronts. And there is such thing as infill development. But that doesn't require necessarily new foundations. So you stop more trees. Well, I think the whole country is going to go through a transition here or is going through a transition with online shopping. You see where Jo-Ann's fabric is now a health place and you can't buy health online. You might think you can, but you can't.  You know, food, all sorts of services and restaurants are that. I think that it takes ten or fifteen years for us to straighten this out. There's no sense in stopping until it's straightened out. Things don't get straightened out if you don't move forward. But this isn't preventing any development. What's that? My voting no on this. Does it event any development? Correct. And my opinion is that when it comes time for the development of this permit process the select board in 1970s agreed to take over this road and for whatever reason it was never followed through. I'm not comfortable taking over the road. That's why I said we'll take this little piece and call it a class for a road to clean up the problem of the past that has nothing to do with the future. I mean, we're not making a decision on the development. Right. So I feel that we're doing what was agreed to be done in the 70s to control the risk of the taxpayer by taking 50 feet of road and calling it a class for a road. And if the town attorney is happy with the agreement I'm happy. There's no discussion on this? I'll make a motion that we sign the agreement. May I have a second? Second. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Well, if you wouldn't mind those who you voted signing it now, or how do you want me to handle the 266... The motion is not completely... Oh, I'm sorry. Any other... Are you voting yay or nay or abstaining? I'm abstaining. I'm too new to, I think, make a decision. In that case, guys have it and you signed your paperwork now. You had it signed by my client, so I'll get it recorded and this will be it. So today is the 19th, right? Yes. And I'm going to prepare just before the town meeting so if you could sign and then print your name and you could motorize it and those Mr. Town, Mr. Lamerton, Mr. Kelly have your free act indeed? Yes. Can you motorize that before I leave your chair so you can continue? Will you be bringing that to the clerk for me so that she can get me a copy at that time? I can scan this into a copy tomorrow. Thank you very much. Tina Boll from the Mont Agency of Transportation. He's the best driver here. Tina Boll from the Mont Agency of Transportation. We're here to talk about the project engineer. With me today is Scott Burbank, project administrator. From Green International, our design consultant Eric Atkins is a new project manager that was assigned to this project. And Dennis Spurib is the project engineer. The agenda that we have today we're going to outline the project development process and review the existing conditions at exit 7. And then questions. The project development process first thing we do is collect and review the existing information. After we do that we solicit public input and we held a local concerns meeting for this project on October 25th, 2016 where we finalized the project purpose and need. And from that public input we had identified potential alternatives including those that we learned at the local concerns meeting. We then evaluate and present alternatives and solicit public input which we did on January 18th, 2018 this year. And tonight we're presenting alternatives to new folks. The next step is to also present alternatives to the Central Mountain Regional Commission TAC to get a regional recognition. And that's to be determined. I'm not sure what we're looking at yet. And then we recommend from things we recommend a preferred alternative to the Highway Division Manager team and if they prefer we develop conceptual plans of that preferred alternative. So Dennis is going to go through the alternatives. Good evening. So as you folks already know from living in this area I don't have to tell you where the park and ride is you can see it's pointed out there at the existing location. It is at the intersection of Vermont 62 and Payne Turnpike North exit 7 off of I-89. The existing park and ride facility has capacity for 76 spaces for which are accessible spaces. There are two bus transit services that run through this area in the area of the park and ride one of which actually stops at the existing facility which is the stage coach. We've been in talk with them about the utilization of the park and ride and how often it's used and how it's used and one of their major concerns with the existing site is access to it. It's very tight. The parking is not well defined and they have a very difficult time getting in and out of the facility often having to do three point turns inside the facility where it ends up being five or six point turns before they can actually turn around and get back out. This slows them down and it discourages them from stopping at this location to pick up more transit riders and so that's one of the things that we've been trying to address with our alternatives and you'll see that on all the alternatives that we show. The different alternatives that we've looked at was six different alternatives at the existing location and three alternatives A, B and C at other sites off of that location. Alternative A you can see in the top right corner there right here is behind the library. Alternative B here next to Shaw's and alternative C right between Shaw's the Shaw's driveway and the dealership that's located there. Now alternative A is the one that's behind the library. We had looked at that one and evaluated it and we were able to provide 142 parking spaces at that location, six of which would be accessible. The biggest issue with this site during our evaluation that came up was the lack of visibility from the main road meaning the parking ride would not be visible from the street and associated with that is safety concerns that would happen because of that because of the lack of visibility and along with that the distance away from I-89. VTrans has learned over many years that the distance that the parking ride is away from the interchange further it is away the less likely it is that it will be utilized by people using parking ride facilities. Alternative B was the location next to the Shaw's Plaza that is right here. Now you can see that green on the map those are designated wetlands and so as you can see this location would be very difficult to develop a parking ride even though the land is open and available it's mostly wetlands and so permitting would be very difficult to get to achieve that location as a parking ride also the property is not owned by the state and so it would require them to purchase that land to develop it. The alternative C the final one is the location here between this driveway and the Honda dealership. That land is also not owned by VTrans so it needs to be purchased and it is also subdivided into multiple parcels which would make that more difficult of a process. Both of these locations were looked at and evaluated but deemed to not be the best alternative for a new parking ride facility. Now alternative one is the first one that is located at the existing facility that one is almost considered a do nothing alternative we would do minor changes within the existing footprint so we would restripe and add new lighting and things like that but really we wouldn't be achieving the goals of this project which would be to create a parking ride where buses would be able to maneuver easily through the facility and expansion which is also a major component of this project is to provide additional parking which this would not do. Alternatives 2, 3, 4 and 5 I will group them together because they are very similar to one another for the most part the differences are the locations of the driveways the types of driveways and the types of exit points out of the parking ride and I will point those out to you folks. One thing to note that all these alternatives the next four have 135 spaces with 5 ADA spaces also their limits are here the pavement limits are here on this left side and as you can see they line up pretty closely to where this residential home is that is located there. One thing to note about this alternative is the stormwater management area here which is needed in order to just treat the water that would be running off of the facility another thing that you can see on this alternative is that we've proposed to relocate the driveway from here at the existing location to here along along pain road pain pipe pipe road sorry private drive yes private drive correct thank you sir and that's right across from the credit union that's located there that would be in this alternative the other thing you can see is that we provided an exit only driveway out of the facility onto route 62 going westbound here you can see this stretch of pavement on the far side is a widened area of pavement that is done in order to allow the buses to be able to turn around and they need that extra turning space in order to make that maneuver now the rest of these are going to be very similar and you'll see that but one of the differences between alternative 2 and 3 is that we've eliminated the driveway out onto pain I mean route, Vermont route 62 and added a right turn only lane here at the center section we've also shown the driveway at the relocated location here alternative 4 shows the driveway at the existing location here where it is now and it does have the right turn only exit onto route 62 it does not have any improvements at this intersection alternative 5 switches those two around so it eliminates the driveway here but does have the right turn only lane there all of these alternatives were then presented at the latest public hearing and through the feedback that we received during that hearing and some of the input that we've received since then we've created an additional alternative alternative 6 which is what we'll be presenting as our preferred alternative alternative 6 as you can see here I'm going to point out what some of these lines are the right line that you can see here is the outline of the proposed alternatives that you saw previously those four alternatives that's how far they went and they were able to achieve 135 spaces where this alternative provides 110 spaces the other things to point out in this plan is this black line here that shows the existing boundary of the existing parking right just so you can visualize the difference the expansion you can also see here that we've added a couple things rather than having only the right turn only lane here or the driveway we've done both and the reason for that is to help with the traffic flow at this intersection we've done traffic evaluations at this intersection and we've concluded that the traffic there does back up going this way going northbound and so one of the things that we wanted to do was try to alleviate some of that stress on that intersection by adding this right turn only driveway to allow people to exit the park and ride going towards I-89 without going into this intersection we've also added the right turn only lane here to provide an additional way for people in this area here to be able to make a right onto Vermont 62 without blocking up that road without the people going straight or taking a left blocking the people from being able to take that right we've also added a do not block intersection striping and signage up here as you can see the point of that is to discourage people from stopping right in that intersection and blocking people from being able to make turning movements in and out of the park and right and out of the private road here as they're queuing to turn onto as the queuing right we can see we've also proposed landscaped area here the purpose of this landscaped area is to provide screening from the park and ride we've also done some grading evaluations and the goals are for us to lower the park and ride a little bit in this area here as we expand it and to provide a landscaping buffer from the private residential home here and so there would be the grade would go up from the park and ride and on that grade we would put landscaping that would provide screening in order to screen the visibility from the private residents of the park and ride itself at this point I'd like to open it up for any questions or anything else that you folks want to add and I can leave it actually on this preferred alternative if you guys have questions about this go ahead so I own home there and my biggest question about this is the landscaped area that's the buffer my understanding in meeting and having a private conversation with the commissioner of transportation and talking this all out was that there was going to be a berm there yes that's something that we'll be looking at the berm that we would be able to provide would not be a berm that is 6 or 7 feet tall it would be a berm that is most likely 2 or 3 feet tall based on the grading that's there one of the things that we want to make sure that we don't do is have any grading outside of the state right away meaning we don't want to grade beyond the fence that's here along this right away line and so because of that limitation we'll be able to raise that area as much as we can I would say about 2 to 3 feet and then we would put plantings trees and shrubs on top of that to provide that additional screening the other thing that we will be doing by changing the grading of the park and ride by lowering the actual parking lot itself and maintaining the elevation of the ground around it we'd be naturally creating a berm around the facility because it would be lower below the existing level that's there now how far down the below grade were you going to take it so the whole topography of this area here is that here it's a it's a slight hill and I think Mr. Clark you're familiar with that this is kind of a high area here and then it slopes down this way and down this way now at that high area we would be probably lowering it about 2 to 3 feet that's kind of what we're looking at right now and some of those details we'll get worked out when we do actual full plan development into conceptual and preliminary plans but at this level that is the level of detail that we can provide is about 2 to 3 feet of elevation drop so you're talking about dropping it 2 to 3 feet then building a berm that's 2 to 3 feet necessarily built up it would just naturally result from the lowering of the park and ride but beyond that on the end of the parking area there's no limitation to the berm height there right so there we would be able to grade it out and would be able to provide a higher berm because we have more space to do that yes that is correct I made a commitment with the commissioner of transportation regarding the issues of a berm on that side to protect my property in terms of lighting it's an invasive process and that was a commitment we made and he made to me so that's pretty important to me and I'm wondering what would be the costs and issues I guess what I'm proposing is the option of boosting that I understand the horizontal distance doesn't allow for the berm that you'd like because this isn't such a small area it's trying to shoehorn in something and I'm wondering what about us bringing it up 4 feet with retaining wall before you do a berm on top of that so retaining walls is something that we can look at there are some concerns with the retaining walls such as vandalism anytime you build something at a facility like this there's a potential for that area to be tagged up with spray paint and other things and that's something that we would want to discourage to some extent is there anything else that you'd want to add to that it would be another thing to maintain I'm thinking of one of these big concrete printed concrete block retaining walls that like we see the new bridge and middle sexes it has those I'm not trying to add expense to this I'm trying to protect my interests and come to a reasonable cost-effective alternative but to me a 3 foot drop in height isn't going to protect me from any of the things that the commissioner promised to me as part of our agreement so it would be a multi-step screening that we'd be able to provide so yes it would be a 3 foot decrease in height of the park and ride plus any additional increase of the burn right so if we could bring the berm up say 2 feet and decrease the parking lot by 3 feet now that would give you a change in grade of about 5 feet there and then on top of that what we would do is we would make sure and we've actually evaluated this to some extent looking at sight distances from your home down into the park and ride and so we've looked at and evaluated how high the shrubbery would need to be in order to fully screen the park and ride from your home and we've come to the conclusion of somewhere between 6 to 8 feet is what we would need in total height berm plus vegetation to screen your home the second floor of your home from the park and ride facility and that's definitely what we want to do and we'll be working towards accomplishing it's not necessarily 100% possible with just one form of screening or the other but with a combined landscaping and berm we believe we can accomplish that what's the process from here once you come up with a design that your preferred design and everybody buys into it you still have to go through a permit process once we go to conceptual plans a lot of times we hold another public hearing and we start on our permanent plans is more detailed design which we have to get a lot of permits for but we also need something from the DRB but we don't do that until we get to final plans because that's the last permit that we would get so we would be coming in front of the DRB with all of our lighting landscaping and to get a permit permit how are you addressing stormwater on-site? great question we have looked at stormwater and as you noticed in the first alternative we had a stormwater location that was here we do not show a stormwater location on the plan under this alternative we're looking at a couple different things we evaluated some of the soils that are on-site they're classified as soil type B which basically just means that it's well draining for the most part and allows water so that's there pretty well we're looking at doing a couple different things one of the things that we're looking at is putting a a space here that would allow for infiltration along the entire edge of the parking so it would be like a stone diaphragm and as water drained off of the pavement it would go into the diaphragm almost like a large French drain to some extent you can think of it that way and it would infiltrate then any water that over tops that would then go into this proposed swale and then drain down through this area as conveyance and ultimately to a catch basin that's located here at this location so that would be some of the ways one of the things that we'll still need to evaluate based on the permitting and things like that is we may potentially need to do some stormwater mitigation here in this location but it would not require us to increase any pavement or lighting or anything else it would just be it would look like landscaping but it would treat some of the stormwater in that location so as the water flows towards the for me the far end where the there's a light green trough there that'd be where the water would drain out yeah so any so water that say it fell here right in the middle of the parking lot it would drain down go through the stone diaphragm and then into this swale and then flow along the swale under this driveway along the swale and ultimately into the catch basin that's there now which is currently picking up the water from the existing facility and that's sized right given that you're increasing that we would evaluate it and if needed if needed we would make sure that it had the capacity to take the water so that's roughly doubling of impervious surface there it's actually it's not quite doubling as you can see where we're eliminating the pavement that's up here so some of the pavement that's up here we're actually getting rid of even though we are expanding over here but well you know as we apply for our permits we would need to make sure that there's enough capacity within all the stormwater features to handle the amount of runoff coming off of the site the other question the entrance to would that be a stop sign it would be a yield condition is the way we show it now so it's a driveway that would require people to yield to any traffic that's in the road and that we've done the evaluation as far as the traffic on 62 to confirm that it would not any vehicles leaving the park and ride would not impact the traffic along 62 and decrease the level of service that would be there that at that road is that a widening lane to the right of the right lane anyway so as you there's it's a wide shoulder I think is what you're seeing this here so that's a wide shoulder and then there's two lanes right so you'd actually be pulling out onto the shoulder I guess is what I'm saying at first yeah and then we would restripe it to make sure that it meets all it would be a third lane for a distance for sure yeah until they accelerate enough to merge into 62 any more questions thank you very much I just I'd like to say is that I hope you'll continue to work with the neighbors so that you design something that is okay with everyone and you work through it rather than come to the DRB and we argue about it again yes do you want to add anything thank you very much thank you I think I think 2, 2, 3 now more stop taking our extension car to your left no so I'll sit here are you looking at the agenda? yeah I said I think you should still do that I probably did I just sit just in and the email he sends to me I'll take the email I'm on my way what are you going to do do you want me to just do my regular I'll take the part I'll get ready he's on the class okay pen you know I should just have Dane send it to the zoom gun and then I send it from select board for this because I have a nine email I think you can do it on there or talk to your tech guy he would say do you want to have the sub-automatically forward we have to play today you can play it go right to it you can buy it I was sitting here feeling like an idiot I knew I was going to buy it I know that's weird he said he said he's going to get one thank you is this bingo this is trying to have fun that first group didn't have fun this is something I wanted to tell you you got one I don't have I don't have you don't have no no sorry I don't they're going to ask a question and you get to give feedback you can see the answers you can see the answers cool stuff they get to tell you really I'm keeping the screen yeah move your there we go close okay so this is the regional sorry the regional concerns meeting for the bridge number 3 over the Stevens branch on us route 302 I'm Laura Stone I'm the scoping engineer this is Carolyn Carlson the design project manager let me move this a little bit down one more click to provide an understanding of our approach to the project to provide an overview of the project constraints that we took a look at discuss the alternative that we selected and provide an opportunity for you guys to ask questions and hear your concerns about the project so here's project map there's the bridge right there it's between route 62 there's Fisher Road up here we have the Vermont hospital central Vermont hospital here's an aerial view most of you are pretty familiar with this I bet we have capstone computer barn over here this is the price chopper parking lot Aspen Dental there's the urgent care is over there a little bit farther so meeting overview the project development process very similar to what Tina had gone over we're going to give you a project overview so we're going to tell you about the existing conditions the constraints that we looked at the alternatives that we considered and ultimately our selected alternative we're going to talk to you about the maintenance of traffic options we considered schedule and a summary of the project I have questions down here while we're presenting please interrupt us so here's the V-Trans project development process the project's been funded and right now we're in this project definition stage where we look at the resources and the constraints based on those we evaluate our alternatives compare them to each other we have this public participation phase currently we'd like to build consensus on the project after this public participation phase is over this project will be defined and it can go into design that's when the permitting will take place the right of way will take place will develop the the concept, the estimate and the specifications so the first question your clickers are you representing and this is the only slide where you can pick more than one he has none yet hold on it's actually only letting you select one is it? I can click different once they just switch to one oh shucks this isn't the one I think it's another question often do you use this segment of US Route 302 okay so a lot of people use it pretty often how often do you walk over the bridge that's not surprising as there's a sidewalk on the bridge but it sort of goes a sidewalk right now how often do you bike over the bridge one rarely no what is your reason for attending this meeting specific concern general interest living close so project overview we're going to look at the existing conditions we're going to talk about the alternatives we consider and go over our selected alternative just to start out a description of terms used this is the bridge rail what we call the bridge rail that keeps you from driving off the bridge the bridge deck is the surface that your car drives on the superstructure are the beams that hold the deck up a lot of times when we say superstructure we do mean the beams and the deck and then the abutments and substructure are used interchangeably those are the supports at either end of your bridge this is a picture looking east over the bridge it's classified as an urban principal arterial it's a 60 foot span rolled beam bridge it is owned by the state of Vermont so there's no local share and it was constructed in 1928 and so it's 90 year old bridge it's really surpassed it's expected life of 80 years here's a picture of the bridge deck it is at risk for full depth pop outs you can see there's concrete falling off a lot of exposed rebar the deck is currently rated 4 or poor the superstructure substructure and channel are all rated as a 6 or satisfactory here's a picture looking west over the bridge there's historic railing it's a concrete parapet and tubular metal rail it's substandard and it's not crash tested the bridge has a substandard width as you have all probably noticed the shoulders are substandard by 4 feet and not only that but it doesn't match the roadway geometry east and west of the bridge also the existing sidewalk you can see there doesn't conform to the ADA standards it's 3.5 feet whereas a 5 foot sidewalk is required also utilities overhead utilities you can see them crossing over the bridge right here eastern abutment you can notice laid up stone wing walls on the very very side of this picture it was widened in 1941 you can see that joint right here and the eastern abutment partially laid up stone again it was widened and I think the joint was you know somewhere in that area resource constraints it is substandard it has substandard hydraulics the bank full width currently is 60 feet what's recommended by the ANR standards is 88 feet it also is the bridge is over topped below the 50 year design event this is also in the northern long-eared fat habitat which just means that if there's any tree cutting it has to be done it's going to have to be done within a certain time frame usually in the winter prior to the project here's a layout of the project that went through the road diet a couple years ago so as you can see there's this center turning lane two 11 foot travel lanes and these wide wide shoulders now over here on this side of the page that's the bridge railing so our bridge is just at the edge of the page here but you can really see that it it constricts this location so the existing conditions here is an existing layout this red line here is the right of way this gray area is the bridge this green is that little sidewalk we have the railroad right here also to note there's a lot of underground utilities on the downstream side of the bridge this is a sewer line right here that's a sewer siphon station and here's a water line about 15 feet downstream from the bridge and another water line about 45 feet downstream from the bridge both these I believe all of these utilities are owned by the city of Montpelier the sewer line okay so design criteria and considerations there's high traffic here there's about 15,000 vehicles per day there's a design hourly volume of 1500 we have 5.6% trucks a design speed of 40 miles per hour utilities is something that we're going to have to take into consideration during the design there's definitely going to be an overhead utility move and it's also an area of significant commercial development there's several commuter buses that run through the area per day so here's the alternatives we considered we looked at the no action but with that decorated a 4 we took that off the table immediately there's a deck replacement and superstructure replacement in terms of they've really accomplished the same thing as far as the road users are concerned they both have a 40 year design life they would both have an 11-5 typical so two 11 foot travel lanes with 5 foot shoulders and the sidewalk would be eliminated then we looked at a full bridge replacement we'd widen to the minimum standard and then some matching the corridor so we'd really be trying to match that 8 11 11 11 8 typical with a 5 and a half foot sidewalk as I know the town does have plans for a sidewalk in the future this would have an 80 year design life we could meet bank full width but it would still not meet the design flood as we're in a, it has a flood insurance study along the river but it would be improved so our selective alternative was a full bridge replacement while the substructures are in satisfactory condition the structure is at the end of its intended design life and we don't believe that the width meets the needs of the corridor long term so this would widen to the minimum standard the 11 foot 8 the sidewalk would be widened and maintained for this alternative meeting ADA standards have an 80 year design life historic documentation would be required because of that railing although we wouldn't be required to put a historic railing back in that in place right of way will be needed and utility relocation will be needed so here's the proposed typical section you can see the existing bridge up here and this is the proposed bridge down here so we'd be widening it quite a bit on each side the proposed layout would match very closely to that typical section on that western side we'd proposed for the sidewalk to extend it out to about the end of the railing on this side but on this side considering that you have the sidewalk project in your plan we would probably I believe extend that out to this driveway here so there would be some permanent impacts over here on the right of way over here here's the proposed profile we'd be we'd be widening this span but in terms of what you guys see there's really no change because of the flood insurance study we're not allowed to raise the roadway here there's also the railroad crossing quite close to the bridge which would limit what we would be able to raise anyway so just have to make sure the right buttons so means of traffic options so this is really where the issues come up is that we evaluated a few things we could do an offsite detour we could phase the construction and because of the width of the new structure and what we have an existing structure we would have to do that in three phases longer construction duration and then we looked at a temporary bridge so the temporary bridge that we would propose would be a two-lane temporary bridge with a sidewalk and we'd be placed on the downstream side and that would require some additional right-of-way so this is what we're looking at here so this with orange would be our temporary bridge and our temporary alignment that fluorescent yellow is the sidewalk green okay fluorescent green so basically this allows the contractor to build the whole new bridge our hopes would be to get everything built at once and because of the location of this temporary bridge that is why we would need to relocate these overhead utilities so that the contractor can set that and have room to build the new bridge um the we did look at an upstream option but that actually there's a much more impact to these to this business in particular and it just would create a very tight radius just is not a an option that we wanted to move forward with so and this is a kind of dark here but um so there's price tracker way over there the temporary would be over here um and you can't even see in this picture but there's overhead utilities it definitely looks great on the screen so that's why we're talking about the impacts and these trees would have to go as well there's that siphon station yep whoops we'll go back for a minute uh so the siphon station is somewhere right in there that's where it goes it's hard to really see so right now um we're looking at construction in 22 or 23 a lot of that depends on uh utility relocations and how difficult that ends up being changing the right away that we need and you know funding and end of that you know a lot of our projects to fundings have been pushed out a year or two sometimes even though we're say 2022 cause it's 2024 so in summary what we've presented to you is uh a full bridge replacement which allows us to match that border which in the long run is the right thing to do um you have to remember that when we're building these bridges these bridges are meant to last 80 to 100 years so way beyond our life experience to see at this point and we have to think about the future in that way we would have that new sidewalk we'd actually add additional sidewalk um lane we have the two lane temporary bridge to maintain traffic um which kind of matches what's there now as far as with uh we will meet right away uh in the area of utility relocation needed and our goal is because we've got underground water and underground sewer we don't want to mess with that so we're going to do our best to avoid that at all so when you think about this project what would you most be concerned about this is your little clicker bridge aesthetics environment impacts business impacts recreational impacts traffic impacts other or you just don't care so based on this um interesting we're concerned we kind of suspected in the long run was the traffic impacts in the temporary bridge if we did that stage construction and didn't do that um in my honest opinion and I think most people is that the impact would be traffic impacts would be much much greater you would have more in delays it would be very difficult to keep traffic moving which design aspect is the most important to you we've got additional shoulder width and bike accommodations the aesthetics what type of bridge railing we might put there construction year the length of construction the class and other I don't know if we need to mention much about the length of construction but with the temporary bridge it probably would be two seasons in the sense that maybe we would get the temporary bridge installed possibly in the fall and then it'd come back in April and start construction on the project um because it's so wide it's going to take a little bit longer to even so we wouldn't be able to do that all in one season necessarily does everybody have a clicker? I know there's a couple who walked in a couple people walked in they have clickers, I don't think they're using they have everybody has them at once so D construction duration is the most concerned we can talk about that after we're done you can explain some of your concerns to us so that we understand as we move forward with the project and then we always ask this question did you find this presentation to be too technical? too simplified? just about right or not much just send us home I like it just about right perfect so oh did you find the recommended scope of the work satisfactory so that's basically what we've proposed and now questions opportunity ask us any questions and we will try to provide those answers so that as we move forward because after this meeting we will start working on those conceptual plans and get moving so that we can have a project in 2022 that should something out right away looking at that situation do you know what they would be specifically? I don't know specifically but let's go back to that slide I'll pass the property right adjacent to that roadway and the temporary bridge and or the permanent bridge so where do you own sir? right in the triangle between the railroad bed and the railroad too Gregory so this red line right here this heavy duty red line that's the existing right away so in order for us to build this temporary bridge we would need some property like kind of follow my red dot here something like that and that would be a temporary easement that we would acquire from you what happens is after we do our conceptual plans we will go out and meet with you personally and kind of show you with right away just to say okay this is where we think that limit's going to be we're going to feel for it well the survey's all been done right now but we will go out and we would design fine tune where those limits are going to be because we don't really know right now so the whole who would do is and we have bring a right away agent with us and he'll talk to you ask you a few questions and at that point we develop right away plans and once those right away plans are developed they will our right away section will begin to assessing the value the value of that land and then they will negotiate with you as to we're going to offer you you know for this temporary easement we may offer you $2,000 and then you either agree or not agree that type of thing we can't I don't know right now but that's about the area I'm looking for your property would be a temporary easement the one thing that I'll bring up is that the interstate bridges that are right and your temporary your temporary detour was the very amount that I wrote right but I do not think that and I just my point being ah make sure you don't have mine okay but I don't think we are proposing on that temporary detour piece have you seen the latest I just wanted to bring up that it would not happen we would not want that to happen at the same time we would make sure that that wouldn't happen at the same time and I also wanted to bring up again that I had mentioned before that I think that when you get ready to do the interstate bridges you should look at airport road and talk to Berrytown about using that as a detour because people are going to use it I think we've actually so I'm no longer the project manager for the interstate bridges I'm so upset about that so the plan right now is basically we're just doing all crossovers on the interstate but it closes the southbound on ramp no we're not doing that anymore you're not we are doing crossovers on the interstate now we kind of took that off the table I'm pretty pretty much sure are you wanting to it doesn't matter to me I want to bring the point up that we if we were to we would make sure that that doesn't happen and I will check in again on that project with respect to that we actually went back to the table came up with a whole new traffic plan on the interstate to construct the bridge bridges but you're right at one point we were talking about closing that and I think that based on your concerns at the time we opted not to we were able to come up with a plan to try and keep traffic on the interstate but I will double check on that and we'll make sure we get back to you with that information I wanted to note one thing on the question and comments page I noticed you took a picture of this page there's a website where we're going to be posting this presentation with all of the clicker responses that we received tonight all future plan sets will be put on that website and so that's I mean this will be posted tomorrow and it will be successful it's actually that on the back page of this sheet there is the link and so hopefully all future presentations as well as plan sets conceptual plan sets preliminary etc etc will be posted up on that website and I can send you the link to well as soon as we have the plans the interstate project they're almost done with the library plans for that project and those will be completed in the within the next one to two months and I'll make sure that we send you the link to where those plans are so that you can share them with the slide board this is the exit 7 this is the exit the whole interstate those four yeah one two four decks thanks this particular crossing may eventually be crossing for the cross from half so we want to make sure the range accommodates that I think that they put shoulders at you okay but if you could check on that what is cross from that again cross from a trail you mean you said half sorry I'm relaying Dan's comments central sorry Central Vermont half it's a very modular program so this plan right here I think that we've got the we're calling it an 8 foot back lane over here right for the east traffic and then the 8 foot coming this way last with that sidewalk so that would likely be striped with a 5 foot lane with a 3 foot buffer we would probably strike it similar to out there right now okay so we will reduce some documents yeah that would be great because I haven't heard that and then the second one speaking of the public transit folks it looks like the alternative allows for traffic to happen through the temporary bridge that was something a little bit slower but it will happen redesigning routes now so that may help that you'll see the bus traffic there change slightly over time when those revised routes get so the temporary bridge is something okay that's good to know yeah I think that what you're going to find here is like right now it's a straight shot you have the light over here you have the train tracks there but with this alignment you're going to have to whistle I think we have it shown at what 30 30 miles an hour but we may find that we may have to make it even 25 miles an hour depending on the entire structure as a whole so how long would this take to go? so what I like to do with my project is I it's going to take at least one construct at least what's great is if you can like install the temporary bridge maybe get some of the approach work done and then walk away for the winter come back April 15th which is our our date that we have contractors to start doing construction and then they would switch traffic over onto the temporary and then start building that new bridge so it would be if we start like the fall advertising summer of 2022 it would all be done in the fall of 2023 it would take like a year and a half 18 months to retake then again it may be a project that we decide that we can do in one season that is when they're April 15th put the temporary bridge in put the temporary purchase in, move traffic over build it and be walk away in November it's a tight, tight frame because this bridge is so wide but that is an alternative as well we still would advertise it in the fall but the contractors would go back out until April assuming that's the scale what's the difference between the width of the current bridge and the temporary bridge the temporary bridge is it would be a 24 feet rail to rail to two 12 foot lanes one in each direction plus we can get away with like a 4 foot minimum sidewalk so 25 feet plus your railing plus so the other thing that's hard to, you don't see it but so let's say this is the edge of your travel way right here this line right here that I'm kind of following that's your face of rail so then there's a 2 feet behind that for your material so when you do that you start getting into this little wing wall here so then that's why I was saying that like be able to build that as a whole sometimes we can do that after we're still not really sure what those foundations are going to be we don't know, we have to go out there and get boring to see what the soils are whether they're sledge what we always try to do is what is called integral abutments which is driving this and then putting a concrete like a 3 by 10 or 15 foot we'll just kind of haul it a cap it's an abutment over those piles it's built in this expensive route but we don't know whether we can do that until we get boring to see what kind of soils we have and if there's a lot of ledge we would just build an abutment to ledge so I'm just curious about the holiday traffic that we're currently experiencing how that would be how it would affect traffic flow that's already backed up since we put the bike lanes in so we're talking like Christmas time? Yeah, so like holiday season and we've got long waits, the traffic is just backed up and people are complaining I don't think you'd have any because we would not have traffic on the temporary bridge during that time, we would have it so I don't know if anyone's familiar with the 14 project off of US2 where they was all under construction last year and it's still under construction next year but what they did is they installed the temporary bridge and they just left it there for the winter they shut it off on either end and they just left it there so that there was no traffic on there and that's what they would do here I agree with you, I don't think it would be a wise decision to move traffic onto the temporary bridge during the holiday season because of all the traffic so I wouldn't do that for like a six month period but to do it for 18 months I agree, I think that it would create too much backup too much havoc Hopefully in the long run back that's reduced a bit and the bridge is widened Right Do you guys have any traffic studies that show whether that leaves any existing congestion there? We personally have not assumed that it would because right now it's going from this really wide roadway to this very constricted area The other issue you have on the east side is you do have that turning lane and right now that taper length for that turning lane is substandard there's not enough length there and so I don't know if you've noticed any backup of traffic from that maybe there is, maybe there isn't but this would allow to construct that taper length to standard that's the other side We don't have a picture of that but we're talking like right up in here right? Yes, it's the turn that goes into the price chopper, yeah This pretty much should be like eventually that whatever width we do here it should be that all the way through with the left turn lane that would be the future of probably a project waiting for the bridge to get there because they can't really do much of anything with the traffic on the other buy price chopper because of the bridge restriction you can't really do a lot of But it doesn't seem the nature of that road is for high speed traffic I mean we just knocked the lanes out we put bike lanes in there and there's several trains of thought on that it's a lot easier dropping down that road now because somebody isn't blown by any miles an hour most people think that's a good thing it takes a whole two more minutes to get from the wayside to price chopper now you know, so to worry about traffic to rectify a bridge that's about to fall on the river in my opinion isn't really a big deal and it isn't route 89 it's highway 302 going it's our biggest shopping area so I don't know it's still like the green light just for the left here we go again what's going on the third light it's moved over not second anything else this is your opportunity no question thank you very much thank you I will put your stickers oh yours didn't work it would take your answer is it like your answer we have trip ones we'll have to check the matters it was pilgrims they had those they couldn't see I just waited they were like they haven't seen pics of the next slide they said hey Dan what I'm too short I'll be here I'll be here okay this is high-tech oh thank you I just want to fill in there's something about that I know nope, no it's yeah that would be nice yeah it is I've got a galaxy I have floating in my vision the appointments to the boards and commissions we have several, this is the time of year that I go and check with people that are on boards whose term is expiring to find out if they'd like to be reappointed and the reappointments for one year would be Matt Levin as the representative to the Central Vermont Solid Waste District Bob Warnick as representative to the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission Carla Nuisle as the alternative representative to Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission Bob Warnick to the Transportation Advisory Committee at Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission and finally the last one year is Ellen Drive-Stale to the Conservation Commission Recreation Committee these have been posted and I have checked with all the parties involved and they would like to be reappointed to appoint all of the aforementioned volunteers to those committees second any other discussion all those in favor aye thank you the next group is for two year reappointments and that would be Beth Doubt to the Conservation Recreation Committee Phil Gentilly to the Conservation Commission Recreation Committee and Henry Legiu Jr. to the Public Works Board moved to appoint all three of those folks to their respective boards as noted second any further discussion none those in favor aye three reappointments to expire March of 2021 Robert Allen to the Public Works Board Wayne Lamberton to the Public Works Board Gary LaRouche to the Public Works Board and Ellen Sulek to the Conservation Commission Recreation Committee moved to appoint all of those people to the board as stated any other discussion or appointments hearing none those in favor say aye those opposed opposed and finally I have four year reappointments John Fitzhugh to the Development Review Board John Friedrich to the Development Review Board moved to appoint both of them to the DRB second any further discussion hearing none those in favor aye those opposed stand anything else? and here I'm just going to give you all the paperwork that needs to be signed for these appointments because I've got a lot of them and then the appointment form for the Solid Waste District which is Matt Levin he's got one in there but this one is to go back to them it needs the signature of the chairperson so if you'd like to vote to have the chairperson sign moved to have the chair sign Matt Levin's appointment to the Central Vermont Solid Waste District second all in favor aye careful don't hand me mine I'm just smiling keep ripping it up in the years I can rearrange everyone's signature on the page at least I'm shining in the right place at some point they'll get sick of you not being there every Monday night what does Kathy think about that? Kathy is the only girl I know so I really don't have anything to do with one of these? well, call me then this is exciting I think I'm getting the routine from that so the paper today mine was the best I'll take care of that I was trying to certainly thank you are you okay? I got it next on the agenda is the town representative of the Central Vermont Internet the town received a letter from the clerk of the Central Vermont Internet Hanson asking for a representative for the town to be appointed do we have to buy our administrative code do we have to put this out there to the public like our other appointments because we haven't actually advertised it no I have not done this one probably I think to be safe I would do the normal we posted here and we put it on the internet for 10 days not to shock you or anything but I'm hoping to throw my head in the ring for that so I can be on that board I'm hoping that too I'm glad you spoke up before I made that motion I'll bring that back to you in the next meeting congratulations a lot of work to get that money just for everybody I'll in the round table another little update about that the approval of special event permit for the Central Vermont Runners we have three special event permits that is something that you have approved before Jeff Prescott is the applicant he's here to give you the information that you would like about these so Jeff why don't I just have you explain what they are come on so I'm here on behalf of Central Vermont Runners and we have three annual road races that have some connection with the town of Berlin Paul Millman 10 miler which is in the Montpugger junction area of town and also the capital city stampede which travels in that part of town and then the Berlin pond 5 miler around the pond for the Paul Millman 10 miler and capital city stampede parking, registration start, finish, everything's in Montpugger there will just be runners on the road out and back for a period of time for the Berlin pond race that's entirely within the town here we have parking and registration here at the town office and then people run down to the pond and the start and finish area I have spoken with the police about this they're used to it from having done it in previous years they're on board with it we have to prove the special event permit applications for the Paul Millman 10 miler the capital city stampede in the Berlin pond 5 miler do you have any plans on posting for the races we generally put up signs in advance around the Berlin pond area the last few years we have not done that for the other two but we could if you would like it we have the signs I just thought I lived down by the junction I just found it, I think people down there found it helpful knowing it was coming so any particular time period in advance that you'd like the signs on yeah they tend to disappear well I know if you did it a couple days before at least then they have a warning of course it's on the weekends anyway all those in favor any opposed motion carries, thank you very much for coming in thank you if the permit sits signed by the chairman and Jeff I'll send those to you thank you for coming in that would be interesting see, good theme better than TV yeah that's how I got it agency of transportation certificate of mileage right, that is the certificate that is done every year to so they know how much to give us for our highway grant next year I will have to add defeat I guess to this but I can't do this and it did not change and this is just, I'll check the box there's no changes in mileage and I'm asking the board to accept that and to sign the certificate even though they only give you three lines moved to approve the certificate of highway mileage for the year ending February 10th, 2018 second discussion? all those in favor? aye motion carries yes approval of select board minutes for February 21st and March 5th I have one minor addition to add to the end right at the end of page 3 just after the executive session we should have a motion to adjourn by me, seconded by Pete then it was unanimous these are on the minutes of the 21st yes yes, thank you so because you aren't there, you'll stamp that one too that's really my fault not Bethany's the camera cuts off and she doesn't get that part so moved to approve the minutes for the Wednesday February 21st, 2018 meeting with the previously noted addition second all those in favor? aye those opposed? and for the March 5th moved to approve the minutes for the Monday March 5th, 2018 pre-town meeting and select board meeting as presented all second all those in favor? aye I'm going then well, I'm wondering is it in the tail I didn't see it I've got a little skew here I can wing it if you just give me the signature sheets anything that has a signature sheet I'll just read them off we've gotten so soft since you've been doing this work for us Dana I know I'm embarrassed that I can't put my hand on it so I've got an accounts payable warrant I've got a general fund northfield savings payment I've got general fund balance sheets, sewer, and water division yeah, use that statement there should be a payroll in the intervals tax admin updates internal entries general entries and tax administration let's see move to approve the general I'm sorry move to approve the warrants for checks 17924 through 17965 in the amount of 103,129 dollars and 21 cents also the town of Berlin general fund the northfield savings bank the fiscal year 15 truck loan payment in the amount of 5,970 dollars and 53 cents also payroll warrant number 18-19 covering March 4th 2018 through March 17th 2018 in the amount of 42,850 dollars and 83 cents also the statement balances for the water division, the sewer division and the general fund also the tax admin adjustments for February 2018 and the journal entries for February 18 I'll second that discussion all those in favor motion carries do you repeat that sure let's see kind of minister in the court name I have a very short report I'd like to thank the board for all their help during the town meeting time I think the town meeting went very smoothly and I really appreciate all that I got through that time and finally I will be leaving town on Wednesday not returning until the 29th so Tom will be back on his vacation I will be in Berlin, Germany awesome so I just want a normal you know if a trip over the air this town would pay for my airfare I can put you in contact with the higher-ups there I'm sure you'll meet very nicely what I went there they're town offices are a bit larger a little bit I'm hoping to kind of see what you've done I'm going to a wedding actually there's a neighborhood in Berlin called a wedding so it would be funny for you if I do I'll let you know okay and there's some more there's a bunch of those like most signatures you have with you all year so next week oh we have to well we have to send out liquor licenses for the year oh right we need a few more here yeah I think that blue folder was too what's that that blue folder had signatures just check for me that's the way it would show the blue torture way there who are my lefty is it creative here I'm missing somebody you're missing me this just wasn't coming out on the right side you know I have a new iPad just for that I lock the page my elbow and the whole thing goes blank I think I'm I think I'm on my elbow I think I'm on my elbow but you can tell so I want to mention also about Central Plant Internet the town of Elmore actually created a special town meeting to take up the question too because they didn't get to it in time for the regular town meeting so they'll be having a four meeting for that and they'll hopefully be appointing a member to that as well in time for the May meeting so we'll have 13 in our May meeting a very town voting at their town meeting on the same day that's the first meeting that's all I got sorry so roundtables now your chance if you have anything that you'd like to add that's not sort of agenda related or anything if not we get to finish oh we get to finish I was just saying telling my ride nine also is there anything that I need to be caught up to speed on or any information that I should have I also had questions about the trainings that I need to go to they are a financial burden for me at this time the town takes care of that okay so I just need to register and then if you can go let me know and I will register you okay are you thinking of the one this Saturday the 24th there's one this Saturday and then the 10th of April I think there was another training too that I'd seen earlier that I'd forwarded on her that I thought might be interesting but before that today he can register you for that so just send them to you and you'll register me yeah and if you could do it tomorrow because I'll be gone after that I can tap Diane to do it as well but if you can that would be great and have select board members claimed miles on travel to those things or they haven't in the past but I certainly think it's in my opinion I think it would be reasonable to okay any other questions you have you can ask Dana anytime right okay 12 o'clock at night is the best yeah the most honest answer stuff but I think too you might want an agenda or I wasn't sure how she was going to act so you were emailed the packet the PDF packet if that's not convenient then you can also on Fridays come over here and pick up an actual physical I usually email it to everyone but not everyone prints it I usually print brads if you'd like me to print it just tell me so you don't have to do it because I know sometimes at home it's a little odd sometimes to try to do it so I'll be glad to but I will email it to you so you can look out on online and then I'll have the actual agenda so you can have it in front of you at a meeting sounds good you don't have to do what I did I was thinking maybe I should start bringing my computer and of course I can do that for anybody do you need a different session today? no to adjourn polls in favor