That worked come on up front folks. We've got lots of lots of room The coffee is going to be there all morning, so you'll you'll have a chance to get back and But we do want to take advantage of the fact. We clearly have critical mass, so we've got a so we do want to get started Thank you all for coming. I'm I'm delighted you're here. My name is John. Hammery. I'm the president at CSIS and This is a little different for us today. We've Normally We do big public events like this when we're done with a with a study and we're not done with this study We've actually decided to you know depart from our normal practice a little bit and take Take a study in front of an audience at a stage when we think we know where we're heading But we still are looking for the kind of input and review that That we need from all of you. So frankly, you're all here to work today You're here to help us think through identify discuss the issues inside this report We we're going to need that as we take this thing the next step. So I want to say a Sincere, thank you to you I'm going to I have not been involved in writing the report so I'm free to say things okay because it's And I would like to offer a few just personal observations This morning that I hope are not unrelated to the report but probably go a little bit further than we do with the report Let me let me introduce this by sharing a little a little story I was I was up. I was the deputy secretary of defense at the time when we went through a paranoid process that led us to shut down relations with China on on space launches and Had lots of very somewhat painful Experiences up on Capitol Hill, you know, and so we that climate that existed at that time well about two months after I left and I came Here to CSIS I was invited to a dinner with Over at the National Academy of Sciences and the reason is one of the people in our orbit was being inducted as lifetime honoree into the Academy and the another individual at night was the head of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and Just as things were luck would have it. I was seated next to this guy's wife The Chinese guy's wife and he she didn't speak English. We had an interpreter and so we were struggling through you know How to make conversation and but I did learn During the conversation that she was the lead designer on the long Long March ICBM. Oh boy You know, I've just been deputy secretary. That's we better change the subject here, you know And so I said well, how long are you going to be here in the United States and she said oh, we'll be here for a month a month Yeah, she said we're gonna be here month. Where are you going? She said we're going to Detroit Detroit for a month. I mean You know what in the world and she said yeah, she said our son's a lead designer for Ford Motor Company You know, I thought to myself, you know, this is a little different than the world. I had been living in that where we have such a deep paranoia about The Chinese on security grounds and then find the lead designer for the ICBM that we think has a nuclear warhead on it aimed at us Her son lives in Detroit Okay, this is a more complicated world and I I bring this up to say that You know, I spent 25 years In government working on national security issues and I a lot of them working for senator Warner and I To my day, I'll go to the grave wanting to defend this country, but we do not have a very sophisticated Approach to industrial security and technology security. Matter of fact, we have a very inadequate approach We have a very static approach as though we can freeze in time A set of technologies and they won't change because of our political preferences And we don't and it does failed. I tell you what we what did we do? I mean, we now have the most reliable Space booster for commercial launches is in China and yet we thought we were going to freeze them out So they could never move forward if we wouldn't work with them Was that an intelligent security strategy You know, I noticed when when I was in government we went through We would we were going through a painful discussion about about letting American Satellite manufacturers imagery satellites Put up commercial satellites and we said well, we're not going to give you a license Until you can prove that your competitors are going to be doing just about the same thing well, you know, what sense did that make we in essence Used regulation to guarantee a protected market to other countries before we'd let our companies compete You know, is that a Sensible security strategy. I mean, it's it's as though our political preferences Can control the evolution of technology? That's just crazy Because we have this very static view of industrial security You know when we put in place the ground rules You know for today's industrial security it was back in the 1950s And it was a very important part of the strategy to win the Cold War. I have no complaints about that but back then You know because of the constraints of technology your engineers had to be close to the factories So that you could work out the problem So you could put in place a security system that was grounded on geographical borders You could do it back then But that's not today. I mean today we're designing things on a global basis So think about What we're doing we We put a hundred percent inspection requirements on anybody that comes from china We put a two percent inspection requirement on containers That come from china and a zero percent inspection on electrons I mean our paranoia is creating an incentive to move jobs to china And again because we haven't updated our thinking we have these very obsolete Ideas about security. We have this idea that security is static. We can freeze it Well, you can't we've got to develop a much more dynamic approach so When we started this and I said to david in the team and again i'm This is this is me talking here. So don't blame them for all what i'm saying here today but This is part of a broader fabric A much bigger fabric of how do we design Viable security structures In the 21st century when you have such ease of movement of ideas and things and electrons and money All of this can move so easily today and there's so much talent other places It isn't like it was in 1952 when 70 percent of the gdp of the world was in this country It's not like that anymore. So we'd now have to design security systems That work in this age Not just carry over old models from the past So the study that you're looking at and you got to as I say you got to help us here today We've outlined four different alternatives And part of what we want to do today is to hear your thinking about this How what what is the dynamic beyond our study group, you know, so we're getting the input from people around the community At the at the foundation still and senator warner dedicated his entire Lifetime and is still does to securing this country But it is having a far more dynamic concept of security than we have had And that's what we've got to do with the conference today. So david, let me let me get off the stage and to say Thank you all for coming. I'm delighted to have you here. I think we've got a very important opportunity in front of us as I said, we're about 70 percent through this We're at that stage. Like I said, we don't normally do this. We don't normally Take it to this stage and then invite the broad critique But we think it's important to do it right now and you're going to be part of that Thank you all for being here. Glad you're here Pardon me while I move this mouse Not connected to anything so it might give me the illusion of control that I I want to thank you all for coming obviously I would recommend that if you have a device that makes noise inadvertently like a cell phone That you either turn it off or turn it up really loud so that we'll know who to blame when it goes off And I've tried to do that with mine I want to open up with a short story Almost 30 years ago. I was coming out of graduate school and I was being recruited Among others by the Johnson Space Center and NASA to go to work there And I was invited to drive to houston. I was doing my graduate work in austin And be present in the command center for the first shuttle launch So I arranged to do that. I think I spent 27 dollars for a motel room Which on a graduate student salary seemed like a lot of money at the time And and got up early in the morning Got through security got in and of course those of you who remember will know that that launch was scrubbed And and so it was a real signal of two very very important things One was that the government was about to fundamentally change the nature of the launch business And the second was that you couldn't count on it And uh as it turns out I didn't go to nasa I'm sure that that event had nothing to do with my decision Instead I went to do d and I got involved in industrial based business And today I feel like I'm almost right back where I was nearly 30 years ago As dr. Hamry said today we we are doing something that's a bit unusual for csis releasing a draft report for broad public comment While our analysis is still ongoing And we're here this morning first to walk you through That whole process To describe our next steps to distribute a copy of that draft report to you And then to take your questions. So what I want to do is get started. Hopefully I'll answer a number of your questions Before you actually have to ask them. Uh, can I have the next chart? Everybody can hear okay I guess if you can't I'm not quite sure how I would know But uh anyway, this is uh, this is what our draft report does It describes the importance of the commercial space sector broadly to us national security It catalogs a number of principal concerns about commercial access to space, which is the launch site of it It lays out a series of options to address those concerns And it gives you the framework that we've established for analyzing those options What it does not do is present the results of our analyses because in fact, that's still ongoing So as a result, we have elements of this report that you might call findings Although we actually don't call them findings yet But we really don't have elements yet that could be called recommendations Although you can see from dr. Hamry's comments that we might occasionally be leaning in a direction that would Would illuminate that Why we're doing it this way? Well, I'm going to touch on a few reasons as we go through this So first, let me describe our methodology next chart It says all of our reports are Attempts to be an independent and objective assessment And and ultimately we want a final report which does go out for public release It builds on the work we did three years ago that was released in a report in february of 2008 On the health of the u.s. Space industrial base and the impact of export controls And i'll talk a little bit more about that study We collected a lot of information through extensive interviews. They were all done off the record and not for attribution I won't tell you whether anybody in this room Was participated in that process But but we'll continue to do those and we looked at virtually all the data that we could find or had our arms around We focused on launch Of medium to heavy payloads to geosynchronous orbit because that's the real driver of both the the overall dynamic and of the industrial base And of course we have the new approach of the Draft for comment. So let me I mentioned that we started our starting point was actually our 2008 study Let me quickly go back a little bit to that study next chart You can't read this and and that's fine. You can find the the report on our website It's a briefing and actually this particular chart takes like five charts in the in the briefing So you can go through it, but these are the findings Um, and you can you can as I said find that on our website But overall let me just highlight three key findings one We found that space is obviously critical to national security and the economy. That's no surprise to anybody Second that all of the segments of the u.s. Space community are highly interdependent military Intel civil and commercial But that sometimes that interdependency is recognized by lip service But not universally by integrated actions across all of those sectors And finally that the u.s. Needs access to technologies, but that increasingly those technologies are not coming from the us That led us in the 2008 study to an extensive focus on export controls, which is not where we started We started purely looking at the industrial base And you'll see that throughout the issues in that report You'll also see it a bit in the draft today and of course that issue is back on the table again I was talking with some in the audience beforehand about how these topics tend to follow a sign wave right there are times when Everybody's paying attention to it and then they kind of drop off and you wonder what happened and then they come back again And we're clearly on the upside of such a wave right now next chart We also had a number of recommendations that tried to address the concerns that were underlying those findings And and and actually the government has undertaken to implement a number of these recommendations It's not our our charter to date to try to report on that But it's it's quite rewarding obviously when you're in a position such as we are and our our charter is to help Provide analytical input to important public policy issues and help move them forward And you see that those are actually received on the other end It it makes it easier to to get up in the middle of the night and come to work But it was clear to us that more was needed And that's one reason why we undertook this review of commercial space launch at this time Let me have the next chart There's a second reason as I mentioned the sign wave effect It seems like everybody's doing a review right now. There's a huge number of ongoing or recent completed studies and reports Um, here's a partial list of the white house's, uh, uh, national space policy Under being written today, uh, the ongoing space posture view dod. We had an interim report out, uh In march last month a final report coming out at a date Which as far as I can tell is still to be determined Um, so part of the reason we scheduled this public release Is in fact because of the timetable and schedule of these ongoing Activities inside and across the federal government And our desire to fulfill our responsibilities to contribute where we can to those rather than wait until they're finished And then we come along and follow behind and and critique them But there's a third reason we undertook this next chart And that's because actually it matters Um, so it's not just timing and it's not just follow on it's actually pretty important We call this chart two reasons why policy makers should care, but it's really our preliminary findings Our overarching finding is that we concluded That national security depends upon commercial assets in space And that's widely recognized But that current implementation of the policy of assured access to space Does not adequately recognize or deal with that dependency That's a critical fundamental articulation And we actually had trouble finding it articulated that way in any existing policy statement You got plenty on commentary on the policy of assured access to space Plenty of recognition of the dependence on commercial assets For that for that policy But inadequate consideration of what it means of how we need to operate And reflecting that overarching finding I think our discussions and our data analysis Yielded in addition seven areas of concern next chart This kind of lays them out we give a lot more detail on each of these in the draft report Limited access to u.s launch for commercial satellites. There's actually been one commercial satellite launch In the u.s in recent memory and none on the current manifest We call that limited you could actually use a stronger word than limited Uncertain access potentially to uh to international launch providers things do get in the way Um a pretty fragile u.s launch industrial base, especially when you get down to second and third tier Suppliers where in many cases we have a critical technology and we're down to a single supplier and potentially a vulnerable one Increase in prices Not quite as clear. There's an increase in cost This actually is an interesting question Issues around payload security And uh whether we can assure that for the future given developments in uh detection and cyber The potential consideration of a real catastrophic event or even a combination of catastrophic events I was down in pascagoula miss sippy and I watched what a 30 foot wall of water did to engle shipyard And I think what a 30 foot wall of water would do To cape canaveral and it would take more than a day to get anything back Plus, of course the catastrophic failure of a of a launch launch vehicle And then on top of that you could look at each of those concerns and say well, it's not so bad today But you also have to look at the long-term implications and where that might go And if the policies don't change, let me have the next chart So here's the structure of our study The first part talks about the overarching finding the relevance of of commercial space to national security The second looks at the current state of the market The third is really kind of the heart of our report We and I'll go through each of these in more detail So we're not going to cover a lot now and that is a series of or sets of options For addressing the concerns or improving access The fourth part is the criteria that we'll use for evaluating those options and the fifth is is our next steps Let me have the next chart. I apologize for the heat in the room You're welcome to take off your jackets And momentarily I may do the same Since this is not being done for prime time I think we may the weather may be changing faster than our hVAC can accommodate When you go from 32 yesterday to 80 today, it's a little bit troubling So this is the first part we've discussed our finding already that commercial space assets are critical to national security And and we found a fairly widespread thought though that somehow those assets are just going to be there when we need them And that the government actually has limited responsibility for or even need for awareness of that And look at the demand today just for bandwidth from commercial communication satellites Roughly 80 of doD's use is off of commercial assets And in theater oef and oif It's reported in the open media as as high as 93 to 96 And frankly there's no intention by the government to go back to relying on solely government assets for those purposes That's a widely recognized and potentially stateable reality But Make no mistake about it The access to what we're using today over iraq over afghanistan Was neither carefully planned for nor deliberately made sure of We were able to take advantage of the opportunity that was provided and we certainly have So that's an important element as we stand here And in addition, of course as I commented earlier the sectors of space are interdependent Let me have the next chart. This is just a representation of that Of the of the civil and defense and intelligence and commercial and the key part obviously is the middle The common intersection of all of them and we list some of the characteristics of of assets and capabilities that are Co-located inside that that intersection area First of course is launched second communications on down the list Including industrial base and technology. This chart's in the draft report. You'll be able to look at there So if national security depends upon commercial space assets, but doesn't fully recognize a responsibility for launching those assets What does that mean? Well to answer that we started by looking at the current state of the commercial industry next chart Part two of our study gives a lot of detail not only on the market us and globally but also on the federal policies and regulations and statutes that affect that market So let me just highlight a couple of points next chart The bottom half of this chart is geosynchronous orbit satellites You can see both the left hand side, which is history the right hand side, which is projections It's been staying around 15 launches per year ranging 10 to 20 And it's projected to stay in that range for the next decade next chart But the second factor is that the us share of that market is declining From over 60 percent in 1997 and 1998 to 30 percent today. This only goes through 2008 It doesn't reflect the financial crisis 2009 those data are not fully Absorbed yet. I suspect when we get the 2009 data that trend will not have changed That trend line will continue to go down next chart Because here you see the same declining share and you can't really read the numbers But I just call your attention on the left side. The us is the big blue 75 percent And on the right side, uh, it's 25 percent and still declining So if us national security and the economy depend on commercial space assets And the us role in the global market is declining And the government is under recognizing that situation or its roles in addressing it What are the options next chart? That's our third part of the study We looked across the band of options that we found someone inside the government or nearby Had put on the table for consideration as a way of dealing either with this issue directly or There was a tangential impact on these issues from those options and we arrayed those options into four sets We did that for three reasons one is we want to evaluate those options against a common set of evaluation criteria And see what elements of each one make sense The second is we're putting them out now to you and the broader community To make sure we're not missing something or mischaracterizing something And the third is we want to make sure that the ongoing studies underway today Are aware that there are multiple options available And they don't rush to conclusions and decisions on the more narrow option set that each one of them might be looking at Because if you don't know all your options, you're likely to pick whatever's handy rather than whatever's best Next chart These are the four sets of options Leveraging foreign launch providers through partnerships through changes in government policies Encouraging competition Which requires a number of changes inside the us as well as a potentially interaction globally The opposite of increasing competition, which is increasing the government role Essentially instead of competition have the government do more and then Lastly changing the dynamic by changing the demand None of these are particularly easy. They're all fraught with peril And the report has quite a bit of detail on on each of these I'll be glad to go through them in more detail in the question and answer period next chart So the final element of our analysis part four of the report Was to lay out the criteria for assessing and evaluating those option sets and they cover five areas next chart Reliability security affordability Feasibility and timeliness So our draft report defines each of these in detail describes Sub elements of evaluation. So you'll actually see what we're measuring against These are not hypothetical or ideological criteria, but actually analytical ones And it describes how we'll assess the option sets against each of one of these So as with the options, we lay these out in case we're missing something. You'll help us identify and rectify that next chart So what are our next steps? We'll release this report We'll seek comments. We've set up a website. We've sought opportunity for providing input and we will acknowledge And accommodate each of those I suspect We'll divide the comments into the spurious and the serious And what the boundary line is between those will depend on whether we get 10 or 10 million Um, I don't expect 10 million, but I've told my staff and you know, I used to work for the government And so I'm very familiar with the government's approach to uh comments Which is thank you very much For your contribution our we've done a careful assessment and we've concluded that our existing Path completely accommodates all the important elements of your comment Some of you may have been on the receiving or the sending in of a similar message at some point in your career I particularly used to do this with members of congress, but I was much more attempted to be much more subtle I suspect it did not come across that way But meanwhile and so we're going to be open for comments and and obviously For the significant issues that come up We look forward to meeting with people to go on through detail Acquiring more information instead of wherever possible or useful And meanwhile, we're going to continue our fact finding and our analysis evaluating the options refining as needed Meet with those who have more to offer and put out a final report by the end of june next chart Here's the address for the comments of the report will be on the web at the conclusion of this It may already be on the web if anybody's got a wireless connection. You can Check and see And and so we'll be ready to go at this point. I would like to acknowledge The contribution that the the folks on my team who made this possible The ones both in the room And not And I I'd like you actually if you all would stand up when I call your name Because I really want to call you out on this and an acknowledgement kind of way It also let me see who's not here Yeah, I teach school in my spare time and I like to find subtle ways to take role rather than make it obvious No, no, I seriously the amount of effort and the the contributions the team made on this report And I'm sure I'll overlook somebody in this process. It was just phenomenal We've been at a very hard run for four months on this and and I've covered an awful lot of territory quite thoroughly so Tara Callahan Lindsay omen you can go ahead and stand up with your laptop or wave your hand. Tom Patterson Greg sanders Greg is here. That means it's on the web, right? Great Stephanie sanoc Gary Powell brian green josh hartman And of course my deputy director at the defense industrial initiatives group guy benari. He's not here today. He's actually headed out to Seattle to do an industrial plant tour and Most importantly my co-project director who will join me up on stages here afterwards for the questions greg kiley I would Like to extend my personal. Thanks to all of you for your contribution here I wouldn't be up here today. If not for the work you've done So that concludes our presentation. Here's how we'd like to proceed. We have copies of this draft report available What I'd like to do is take a break. Let you get your own copy. I think they're right outside. Tara. Is that right? I would really ask you to take one copy each No, not more than that, please Because uh, otherwise we'll we might run out And uh, and then we'll reconvene and take your questions. So with that, let's take a break and get the report. Thanks


I don't know what I'm about to watch today, and maybe he's better kept that way. Somebody tweeted me a video, apparently B-Fresh of the NBA 2K18 cutscene has made a rap music video, and I scrolled through it. I didn't hear anything just looking at her. I could tell us the cringiest thing I've ever seen already. Listen man, there's a reason why I've never put out a rap song on my channel. Y'all know me? I don't have no rhythm. I once recorded a song, listened to it back, and almost wanted to kill myself. It was that bad. I know what I'm good at, and I know what I'm bad at. People need to be more self-aware in life. But shout out to B-Fresh, she's using her two minutes of fame, and she's trying to get a little clout on the YouTube. Now it's heavy disliked. And I guess her real name is Sherry Cola, or I guess maybe this might be uploaded on somebody else's channel. Subscribe if you all want more little tasty, aka yellow mama, aka two braids, aka titty girl, aka pimp princess? What? Teardrop shoddy? Yo, someone off-ramp I know is going to be horrible. Eating all these Reese's puffs in 2K18? If B-Souls was a girl? Let's just watch it, all right? Let's just... What is that? Does anyone know what that is? Is that Mandarin? Is that Korean? I'm not sure what your language this is. It doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying? I just hope you're ready. When was this uploaded? February 20th?  I need new friends. And one of y'all linked it to me on Twitter, for no reason yesterday. It's February, it came out months ago, and I'm finding out about this now. First of all, shout out for wearing the Timbs, that's what's good. We need to stop the close-ups immediately. Can we talk about that? It's making me super uncomfortable to be that close to your face. Previously, the closest I got was when I was kicking it with you in my My Core Eating Reese's Puffs, all right? We're going to keep it that way, hopefully, but can we just backtrack to the wink you did? Listen, I might see nightmares of this wink. Just pay attention to the wink. You're going to feel so uncomfortable if you missed it. Oh my god, man. What's wrong with all these people rapping that don't know how to rap, man? Hope I can make it through this video, y'all. Y'all know I have a headache, man. Listen, one more person talks about me sweating in a video. If you're getting blocked, it's like 85 degrees in this room. On top of that, I'm sweating because I have to be uncomfortable watching this. Because Be Fresh had face tats. Is that it? All I need is one beat. That's a mold. Never mind. Right in the mannequin, Be Fresh. Where'd you just kicking it with the mannequins a second ago? I'm a Kobe fan. I'm a huge Kobe fan. Honestly, Be Fresh, you're doing nobody a service right now. You need to stop. Don't represent Kobe. Don't rap. The people in your music video are obviously embarrassed to have been in it. If they just knew what you were going to be rapping like, they would have dipped a long time ago. I'm sure you didn't play in the song beforehand.  What you telling them like? Hey, my name is Be Fresh. I'm in all those unskippable cut scenes that you guys love so much in NBA 2K18. NBA 2K18? Yup, NBA 2K18. All right, yeah. I'm going to need some dancers for my music video.  Wow, she must be an important person. That's good at a lot of stuff. Uh-uh. She has a tag on the jersey still. Did y'all see that? I know she put that in there purposely because she knew we were going to see that.  You got the tag on... You're going to return the jersey after the video? Real Kobe fan, right? On top of that, she fully said, you're not cleavage.  What does that mean? Do I have to be this critical agent? What if she's just trying to have fun? Just keep it to yourself. You don't even have to upload it. Okay, my headache is getting worse because the cameraman is doing some of this right here. What are you doing? Cameraman is doing the James Harden hero step with the camera. Keep the camera still or put it on a steady cam.  Is she Chinese? She's not Japanese. Is she Korean? She may be Korean. All right. I know y'all probably forgot. I just want to remind you guys so we all get scarred for life. Be fresh-winked at you and me. I'm not exaggerating this. It actually hurts my soul every time I see it. It is like watching an episode of Fear Factor where they're eating cockroaches. All right. What do we have here? What did we learn today? Ask a friend. Ask your parents. Ask your teachers. Ask people at your workplace. What are my strengths? What am I good at? Agent, you have great communication skills, man, but you don't have great flow of rhythm. Probably don't try rapping ever in your life. Well, now I know. You know, if I didn't know before, I know now. And then I could save the world from having to see something like this. Listen, I got to talk to some of my friends, man, because this has been on the internet for months now and I just found out about it.  She made me buy and be alive. I find it incredible she did this whole video with her. Okay, that's just racist.  She probably knows this is bad, but it's like Lil Tay or one of them other Instagram people, like the girl from Dr. Phil. You know who I'm talking about? The girl from Dr. Phil. Yup, she's trying to be like them. She's trying to be so ridiculously bad and horrible at what she's aspiring to do that people just give her attention because she's so bad at it and they share it with their friends like, can you believe she did this? But meanwhile, she's building up clout off of your laughter. And then she's gonna run around in Vancouver pretending that Holmes are hers. Even though they're not hers, her mom is just showing off the Holmes. You know who I'm talking about. Oh no, I can't see it again. I can't see it again. I can't see it again. First of all, the tag is right there. Can we zoom in and see what come with the dollar amount we're talking about is? All right, listen. I want to move forward and find out, but I'm afraid I'm gonna see the wink. All right, yo. I'm gonna leave before I throw up, man. I'm gonna catch you guys later. Hopefully we don't see Be Fresh in 2K19. She'll have to be fresh, keep grinding, be fresh. Just probably not rapping. Maybe you're like a good writer or something. You might be a good teacher. I'm out, y'all. No, I'm not. Drop a like, subscribe to the channel, and watch my other videos that I'm fighting you. Now I'm out. Peace.


My name is Alex Wells, and I'm Head of Education and Quality at the National Union of Students. I've been asked to give a student perspective on the use of technology in the 21st century. I suppose I just wanted to start by reflecting on some of my own experiences. I went to university to study history for my undergraduate degree back in the mid 1990s. Even then I remember handwriting most of my essays not using the internet at all and actually barely knowing what email was, let alone using it to communicate with my tutor. Then comparing that to relatively technologically stone age experience to my current experience as a part-time student doing a masters at the Institute of Education only 15 years later I'm now able to download my weekly readings and other journals from my VLE at home, have online discussions with my classmates and even watch lectures from other universities on YouTube. ICT is now an integral part of the daily lives of most people. The percentage of UK householders with access to ICT is currently around 73% having risen from 51% only three years ago. The NUS HSBC student experience report shows that 96% of students use the internet as a source of information. 69% on a daily basis as part of their studies. I suppose if my own experience tells me anything about the pace of change within technology it's certainly no use trying to predict how technology will be used throughout the next centuries, let alone the next five years. But I just wanted to reflect on what students are currently thinking about it and provide some thoughts on how the use of technology could be better integrated. My talk is going to be based on the data from the annual NUS HSBC student experience report and I'll primarily be using data from last year's report although I will give you a sneak preview of some of the key findings from this year's report which will be releasing in November. In addition to the student experience report, NUS was commissioned earlier this year by Hefkey to undertake some research into student perspectives on technology as part of their high level online learning task force that Aaron Porter is a member of and as I've mentioned, unfortunately he can't be here today. But I'll use this research to add some flavour to some of the data and to highlight some of the key recommendations coming from that research and included a number of focus group surveys of both current and also prospective students and so it provides an interesting overview and this will also be released in the next couple of weeks. However, I suppose the first point that I wanted to make that the research emphasises is that ICT provision varies massively between institutions and therefore there's such a wide variation of the individual experiences of students and so whilst I hope what I say will resonate with most of you it probably won't be true of every student and every institution. My talk's going to be based around three main areas what students think about current ICT usage in higher education how students would like to see it used and thirdly the training needs of students but also of academics hopefully I'll leave some time at the end for any questions that you may have. So firstly looking at what students think of ICT usage in higher education as part of the HEFC funded research that we did we did a survey of prospective students and what was perhaps most interesting was sort of this underlying theme that the relationships between students and ICT was often quite conservative I suppose and ambiguous obviously there was a certain amount of students who are very innovative but there is a sort of underlying theme there. Almost 30% of students say that they preferred to have printed resources compared to a quarter saying that they preferred electronic 45% saying that they prefer both equally and I suppose perhaps rightly given the rigor of peer review 40% say that they're more willing to trust printed materials rather than 50% who say they're more likely to trust online information but I suppose one of the key areas within institutions relating to ICT usage is obviously the virtual learning environment again this reiterates the point of variability of student experiences with differences between institutions about how they use it but also more significantly the differences between and even within departments so whilst there was an expectation that the ICT wouldn't instantly replace either the lecture or sort of more formal forms of learning there was a quite widely held view that the VLE is underused and more often than not it's just a storage point for lecture notes rather than being actively using all the interactive features such as the chat rooms and so on. In terms of some of the wider discussions I suppose particularly raised by the previous government it's interesting to note that 41% of students strongly disagreed that the university had a right to monitor their internet usage but actually almost just over a third of them said that the institution did have a right to see what students were actually looking at on the internet. The NSHSVC student experience what gives a broad overview of what students think about ICT usage with 46% of students feeling that it has enhanced their studies although 34% neither agreeing or disagreeing and also 38% of students believing that ICT more generally has enhanced their time at university again with a third neither agreeing or disagreeing so that's sort of just a quick overview of some of the perceptions that students currently have but the second area I wanted to look at in a bit more detail was the way in which students would like to see ICT used within higher education. ICT is already highly integrated into the whole experience from the online searches for information by prospective students online application forms through UCAS putting prospective students in contact through Facebook that the near universal use of email from everything to contacting your tutor and finding out about changes of lecture schedules to being reminded about the access to financial support in the university careers service. Universities have invested heavily in ICT support whether through internet access points in halls of residence or indeed as we've seen in the times higher this morning increasing numbers of institutions with 24 hour access to computer suites. Using ICT for administration is certainly an area that students would like to see continually developed and expanded recognising that the use of ICT can lead to both greater efficiency and making it more convenient for students. The upcoming NUS charter on feedback and assessment calls for students to be able to submit assessments electronically and of course this won't be possible in every case you can't submit a work of art or various other sort of more practical forms of assessment but this increased flexibility will obviously support part time and distance learners but also will ultimately benefit all students. The charter also calls for greater innovation in assessment so how can technology be more used in the various different forms of assessment that there are? Anachronistic that students are still expected to go into an exam and hand write their answers in many cases probably the only time that they'll actually have to hand write anything is in university exams. The other area I suppose in terms of technology is the feedback that students get. Feedback has been one of the key issues coming out of the National Student Survey and one of the ways in which both the speed of feedback but also a way in which it can engage more students providing that through electronic means there are a number of projects looking at how that can be done more effectively. However whilst ICT has been very well integrated into the administration of universities there has been some suggestion that in terms of teaching and learning and the application of ICT still has quite a long way to go. In many ways it currently replicates existing practice so has a student that's used Google rather than the university library got any new information or have they just accessed it through a different medium. Similarly has a group of students discussing an issue via an online discussion forum developed their learning beyond a tutorial discussion. The use of ICT has the potential to truly enhance teaching and learning but I think we're still a long way from this being realised within higher education. Certainly the constructivist approach to learning highlighted by Bygotsky and others placed a greater emphasis on learning as an active process and emphasising the importance of learning through doing and actually I think this is where technology has a real opportunity being able to take advantage of some of the more interactive features of Web 2.0. I suppose perhaps it is unsurprising that we haven't developed this area as much as we could I suppose wide access to personal computers have only really been available for a quarter of a century or so worldwide Web only really for the last 15 years and Web 2.0 and social networking for about five years or so so the rate of technology is so rapid that universities haven't in many cases been able to take best advantage of this but there are beginning to we're beginning to see some quite interesting examples of that so things like an atomised which allows medical students to practice dissecting cadavers from the comfort of their own computers and learning through trial and error but also using gaming technology has yet to be effectively explored Certainly at NUS we would encourage institutions to appoint something like a senior fellow within university faculties to be responsible for new technologies and supporting integrating it into teaching and learning and by having a champion within each faculty this would hopefully result in a very real step change in the way in which technology and teaching and learning are integrated but I suppose it's also important to consider that the impact that ICT usage will have on students before they arrive at university there's already talk about students skimming for information looking at information in a more cursory and less detailed way rather than the traditional deep learning approach of immersing yourself in a subject but also young people growing up with computers use quite a different approach to learning they use trial and error so if you're playing a computer game you keep on at that level in the game until you succeed rather than the previous approaches so that has the potential to change the way in which people are learning I just wanted very briefly to show you a short clip from American Professor which emphasises this point The purpose of schooling is to take present-oriented little beasts and make them more future-oriented and some cultures make them more past-oriented In America a child drops out of school every nine seconds This is worse for kids from a minority background It is 5.30 I can hear it in the background Essentially what the clip would have shown was the way in which by the age of 21 young men have been playing on computer games and on the internet for 10,000 hours and the impact that that has in terms of almost rewiring their brain so I suppose the impact that that has is just sort of re-emphasising the point that that universities will need to consider the impact that that will have on the way in which people are learning I suppose one way in which learning can become more interactive is through using the technology that students already have in their pockets so things like mobile phones and PDAs More than a third of students, 37% of students think that mobile phones and PDAs should be used in their learning and there are actually a number of projects particularly funded by the HCE Academy that look into this I think there's one at the University of Bradford on mobile enhanced disabled students' meds which is looking at how mobile technology can be used to support learning and I think this has probably been a theme of your discussions over the last couple of days but I suppose there was also a certain resistance among students for there to be more teaching delivered online with three quarters of students disagreeing that they would like to see this in terms of the way in which it is delivered if it is going to be delivered online there was certainly a preference force of the podcast rather than the video cast as they were able to then listen to it wherever they want but particularly useful in terms of as an aid during revision but I suppose the key with that is whether ICT can ever really be a supplement to the teaching methods preeminence I suppose of the face-to-face teaching the magic being woven by teachers with little more than a voice enthusiasm and energy has been described but the main point is for students it can actually be both more enjoyable, more engaging and especially the increasing use of technology in the school sector it will both become more expected as they go into higher education but also with employers themselves demanding these skills there will be an expectation that higher education meets these needs so this moves us on to the training needs of students I suppose there are three key areas that I wanted to touch upon the basic computer skills for using some of the major packages things like Word, Excel, PowerPoint secondly the skills that students need to make the most of new technologies such as how to use the web for research as well as referencing and citing online materials and finally the more advanced technological technology training for those doing more specialised courses in reality this last group is probably the easiest group of students to support because the skills and equipment they are using are much more advanced and new to most students and so they recognise the importance of receiving training in that and also the institutions likely to provide it already but the provision of training for basic skills is an interesting area with many believing that these should already have been learnt within school this training at university was considered by some in the research to be either a bit patronising or too basic but there was also a perception that students themselves just won't bother to attend because they believe they already have the skills as one student responded to the survey I think 99% of students my age know how to use a computer very well indeed therefore I think there is no need for any teaching for students on computers but I suppose one of the interesting but perhaps unsurprising results of the research was that most students 81% say that their ICT skills are self-taught and I suppose this means that students both think that they already have the skills but more importantly they don't know what they don't know perhaps that's why 60% of students don't have proper training so I suppose happy in their almost Rumsfeldian unknown unknowns but for example I use words all the time and continually finding new features for it and so without proper training at a more advanced and more tailored level I'll never be able to make the most of this software and one of the things that we're recommending in the report is that institutions do more to help students make them aware of their training needs and perhaps even something as simple as that can provide students with an accurate gauge of their skill levels and therefore the possibility of tailoring training sessions more particularly to the individual needs of students regarding the area of skills relating to new technologies this is an area where students themselves would like additional training students want additional support whether it's something as basic as how to cite from web sources to how to research using the web but also how to identify useful and reliable material this final point came up a number of times with students wanting to know what material to trust and even something like Google Scholar which provides the number of citations for particular articles it can be a useful guide as one comment left by a student said just more tips and advice on how to use the internet more effectively to find out what you need and I for example often spend a huge amount of time scanning through material I don't need until I get to the useful and required information students also need more support for researching and referencing we're seeing increasing numbers of students being caught out for academic misconduct and I suppose one of the more worrying statistics in the research showed that 28% of students admitted to knowing other students that have used the web to plagiarise and whether this is through whether this is through intent or on a mistake is unclear it's also uncertain as to whether technology tools likes of cut and paste have made plagiarism more prevalent or whether actually just software such as turn it in has made it detection easier we certainly believe that it is important to use tools like turn it in as a way of improving awareness and this should be used as a training tools with students able to use the software particularly on formative assessment to check their work beforehand and get the support if they do actually need it I just wanted to touch on the training needs of academics which can be a particular delicate issue there are many academics in higher education that are at the forefront of integrating technology into teaching but equally there are a significant number of academics that are more hesitant is the way I should probably put that there has been much discussion around this nervousness amongst academics and they are not feeling that they may have the same level of skills as the web native students and the teacher not wanting to put themselves in a situation where the knowledge gap can be identified but the issue of training came through the research quite strongly with a small but vocal undercurrent of dissatisfaction with comments such as teachers use PowerPoint far too much but don't really know how to use computers for anything else and one student even saying some tutors are very good with computers are not very good with computers but I can usually help them this perhaps helps to explain the hesitancy amongst students for greater use of ICT in learning with 50% disagreeing but they can gain more when the shooter does integrate it but it's not about simply about shoehorning ICT usage into teaching learning but how they can do it well and in an appropriate way in conclusion then information and communication technologies offer many exciting opportunities to support, develop and even enrich teaching in higher education people learn in multi-dimensional ways and ICT is able to cater to all of these but there is still massive potential that needs to be developed to ensure that we get the best out of ICT however it's only when these opportunities for greater interactivity in learning are unlocked that ICT will truly enhance learning universities are well placed with their culture of research large budgets and access to technology as well as their expertise in their computing departments and so on to push the boundaries of integration of ICT in pedagogy and assessment and to fully explore the possibilities of learning but it's important to ensure that there are institutional approaches and strategies for ICT however it is essential that this also happens with teachers at the very centre of that process when developing teaching and learning pedagogies to ensure that what is developed is practical and implementable student expectations will continue to be the key driver for greater integration of ICT methods in higher education particularly as students start to contribute ever more of their own money in the cost of education as well as ICT through social networking and so on so their expectations will rise I suppose the very final point that I would like to add is that ICT should not be seen as a cost saver but should be done for the many other benefits to institutions such as added convenience, interactivity ease of access and I just wanted to end with a tweet that we got part of our research that I think sort of sums up the approach to technology in higher education ICT should create added value, not value for money thank you very much Thanks very much Alex there's been one question posed remotely which I'll just ask straight away which is and perhaps store the questions up and then answer them in a go because we're going to need to clear the room in five just a bit about the sample size whether or not post graduates were included and the spread of disciplines and subjects in the survey that you reported from so if you store that questions from the room there's one at the back is that Colin Addy I see Hi Alex Colin Addy University of Wolverhampton can I ask you to comment on a strategic support issue you've talked about students and staff needing more support needing more training and I'd agree with all that you've talked about wanting to see ICT used more more what shall I call it serious at a serious level so for things like e-submission assessments formative feedback and all that sort of thing and I'd agree with all that wholeheartedly what we are probably struggling with and I'd like your thoughts on is how we support that in the universities and that's got to be built in strategically so if I can give you a very quick example and unfortunately I don't have the figures to my head I'll be very quick to get there Seb if you look at a library and the amount of staff that are in a library that support the library side of academia and then compare that to the amount of staff you find in let's say staff development unit or the amount of staff in e-learning or something it's hugely disproportionate do we need to have a bit of a strategic realignment okay do you want to come back on those two Alex and I'm constantly looking for others who have probably one over here so just in terms of the sample size so there are two pieces of research that I was quoting the new SHSBC student experience report which is a piece of research funded by HSBC which we GFK conducts on our behalf there is a sample size this year of 3,800 it is it is entirely undergraduate but is representative of the whole of the UK of subject mix and so on the second one was the NUS research and this was a survey of prospective students so people who are going to go to university and this was the thousand students who are currently in FE and so it is a way of being able to sort of see what people about to go to university are going to be increasingly expecting from their experience in terms of the strategic support then absolutely this is an area that needs to be developed and I suppose particularly we've heard all about the cuts that are going to be facing higher education and the way in which the sector is going to protect front line teaching and learning I suppose one of the key points from the student perspective is that often the interaction that they will have with the whether it's departmental administrator whether the person in the library actually will have in many cases as much an impact on their experience and will help them as many of the people standing up in front of them so this is certainly an area that does need to be considered when we're going forward with these types of issues but yes there certainly does need to be a more strategic approach to the way in which it can be embedded Thanks Alex Hi my name is Abby Barcrame an e-resources librarian from University Campus Suffolk it kind of follows on from the previous question maybe more of a comment than a question everything that you mentioned helped with ICT helped with research helped with referencing we were already here with the library and when we are timetabled to see the students is over the next month we see them in the first week for an hour of a three or a four year course and they forget that we're here so maybe what the previous question was saying and that we realign things is that we then spend the next three years trying to get students through the door we're here we're willing to help we would love to boost that 1% of students who use e-journals for their research so the question might be how do we get the academics how do we get the students to point them in our direction I suppose there are two points that I'd like to come back on that I suppose the first one is the point I made around how much students know what they need to know in a sense and so something that is able to assess what their needs are would be very useful particularly in terms of some of the issues around particularly things like the regular use packages but also actually like referencing what I would say is actually that the student union itself is an under under tapped resource in terms of supporting information out to students around what courses are being provided certainly I know that York student union did a lot of work last year to make students aware of the whole menu of options available to students and certainly that would be something I would encourage institutions to do is work very closely with the student union to promote the opportunities available to students Thanks Alex Anybody else? We've got a question in the middle Just a very simple question Has the research on prospective students been published yet? Not yet It's going to be published Heather was here yesterday from Hefke I think it's going to be published within the next week or so but sort of very soon Anybody that's just on the edge of sticking their hand up going to be tempted to by me Sorry I was just going to ask actually use us perhaps you suggested that the one that was easy was in fact the support you gave three three areas of support for students and you suggested the third the support for learning technologies was in fact the easiest whereas my belthering and say that one's the hardest can we just do a straw poll and say from the people in the room here who is satisfied with the level of support for their students in relation to the learning technologies that they use and you just put up your hand if you're satisfied That's three, four What proportion is that then sir? Well you need to say who's dissatisfied I think to get the kind of because maybe a lot of people are sitting on their hands it's a nine or so in here which will be about a fifth of the audience I think it's 45 or 50 but do you want to ask the counter question? Yes Can we have dissatisfied? Two to one Interesting I just wanted to find out Thank you Any other last teeterers? Yep, it's amazing how if you say that Hi, I'm a learning technologist Marty Jacobs from University of Essex You talked about your use of word I agree with an empathise with that How much time should we spend on the basic stuff like word training for students and staff and PowerPoint and how much time should we spend on cutting and bleeding edge learning technology? That'll depend very much department to department so certainly for students for which essay writing is a core element then anything that makes it easier to unfortunately still haven't worked out how to use cut and paste that's the exception rather than the rule but there are still particularly essay based subjects where student knowledge of some basic packages could certainly be improved obviously the more technical the subject itself the more you'll then need to focus on the technology relevant to that discipline Question over here to be the last one Hi Alex so it was very hearten when you said about the students not not knowing what they don't know and you gave a personal example of you still finding out things about word and I think it's human nature we just don't realise we don't know so much so on your last ICT should create added value not value for money how do you think that ICT can create this added value what the students don't know and working towards the ICT with the faculty integrating that to do the added value side of things Yeah I suppose it depends very much on the example I use was as a student having studied to now essay based subjects it would be very useful to me to be able to use word very effectively so something where an online test where I'm able to just go through a series of questions which will then point out some of the areas that I don't know wouldn't naturally use and then being able to have the training that can then pinpoint where I am at the moment how I can then be taken to the next level in terms of that example I suppose it'll depend very much on the individual student and their discipline well Okay, thanks Alex for that presentation thanks audience for your questions thanks remote audience for participating and let's show our appreciation for Alex in the usual way


This next portion of our panel, the second portion of our panel, thinking about economic challenges over the next five years, brings together four experts on specific top or more specific topics we may say in the international economy. And I'm going to introduce them again one by one and then they'll each make a presentation. So first here on my left is Carl Browner of the WTO. Second is from Airbus who is in charge at Airbus industry of strategy and international affairs. Finally, Suzanne Hayden who used to be a senior prosecutor at the U.S. Department of Justice and now is on the PMI Impact Expert Council. And finally at the far left, who is currently on the Council on Economic and Fiscal Policy in Japan. And as before, each of them will take five to seven minutes to address specific problems. I'm going to ask Carl who comes to us from the WTO to address what is a question that was raised in the previous panel and that I think is on the minds of many of us which is what on earth will become of the WTO in the current situation.


Thank you, Angela. You can use the microphone. I can click for you. Just a quick show of hands. Who's working in corporates more than five years? Corporates. Okay, great. So like many of you, I've been in corporate for eight years. And I used to come to work every day. And instead of working, I used to daydream, right? So what did I daydream about? I daydream about... Oh yeah, sorry about that. I used to daydream about creating a very big company and becoming very successful. And just like Mr. Dicaprio over here, I thought my life was going to be like this. All the way up. Between working and daydreaming, I actually worked on a lot of ideas, and new ideas, start-up ideas. Sorry, for the last three years. Especially on weekends and after work, I used to meet my partners and create the start-up ideas that I wanted to make. And in March 2013, I created Veneerific. By chance, six months later, my boss at the time, he actually announced that the team was going to be made redundant. So I was like, wow, the first thing I thought about was Leonardo, right? It's like, you know, I want to resign. Give me the money. So I resigned. So in this slide... Sorry. This slide, you can see different stages, from what I think is different stages of entrepreneurship, starting from the monkey becoming a soldier, becoming a Jedi. Obviously, I was still in this stage, and if I show you the next slide, you can see why. That's right. After receiving the money, the first day, I went to party. And I did it for three months straight. Three to four days a week, right? You can imagine the amount of hangovers that I got during the three months. So when I did my job, I did calculation. I can actually survive one year with this payout, doing my business, but I spent it in three months. Sorry, I still have three months left. So I spent nine months' worth of cash in three months. Can you guys imagine spending nine months' worth of cash in three months? It's pretty comfortable. It's a lot of drinks. So it comes to the next slide, where it's a battlefield. Why did I choose this slide, right? So you can see there's Prince Lyla. There is an alien Jedi over here. And next to the alien Jedi, there's that guy on the floor. Basically, in business, if you have no experience and no knowledge on how to do business, you can die.  You don't want to be that guy. So get a mentor, get someone that can protect you instead of jumping straight into business. But unfortunately, that's not what I did. I jumped straight into business, and I did a Han Solo. So I want to talk about some of the experiences that I had during the journey of the three years doing VanuRific. After three months, you know, I sobered up finally. I realized like, hey, I only have three months' worth of cash. What do I do? No attraction. There was only a little bit of attraction. The product is there. So I decided, okay, I'm going to look for partners that knows how to do events, and I'm going to invite event organizers who plan events to attend this event. I'm going to make money from it. Great idea, right? So finally, I found this guy, and he looks quite, you know, sleek, wearing his suit all the time. He said, oh, I've been organizing events for four years. Very big events, and I can help you. So we went on. We did the events. The first event was successful. Second, third, and then fourth. But there was a problem. He started giving me all the work. So by the end of the fifth event, I was doing 90% of the work. So we ended the partnership, right? So we shook hands and we became buddies. And then one fine day, he came to my office and he said, hey, how you doing? Good, good. Ricardo, you know what? I have a brilliant idea for you. I've been working in a business world for four years, database of 10,000. I can pass this to you. Wow, this guy is super nice. He must be feeling really sorry because of the partnership. So I was like, okay, what do you want to return? He's like, oh, just, we can swap database, right? So that's exactly what I did, right? The following weekend, I was browsing through Facebook. And I saw a post from this guy. If you're looking for the best event space in Asia, check out this link. And he wasn't my website. He basically passed the database to a new competitor that created the same thing as us. And he's basically doing consulting for them for a lot of money. So this is what I said to him. You were my brother. How can you do this to me? When you're doing business, you're bound to come across a lot of opportunities, right? Some of the opportunity can be really attractive and you probably make a lot more money than what you're currently doing, right? So this is around nine months into the business. We're getting some traffic, but revenue was okay. And this intelligent guy, I met this intelligent guy at the bar. So when you meet someone at the bar, don't do business with them. He kept pitching his idea. He bought all my friend's drinks. Very intelligent, very smart. Right? He was like, you know, Ricardo, I need you in this team. I'm making a superstar team and you need to be in this.  I was like, I'll think about it. To be honest, I didn't believe him. I smelled his BS and I didn't put in the money. But some months later, I did. I decided to put in the money. I decided to go dark. Right? So why did I do it? Well, he managed to get a VC to come in. And then he got a very famous radio presenter to become the face of the company. And then he got a banker to invest as well. So for me, I was thinking, wow, small amount of money makes sense. I can make returns within a few months. So I did it. Anyways, it didn't go well. Once we sent all the money in, he disappeared. He was using fake name, everything. So the lesson here, always eat cookie from the light side. So after working hard forgetting about the incident and feeling really bad about putting the money in, I got approached by another friend after one and a half years. He's like, hey, I met these two really talented people from Malaysia. You can expand. You should expand. You shouldn't wait. Wow. One and a half years. Yes, let's do it. So we met the guy. We interviewed them. We did all the background checks. They were superb, perfect, talented, but we couldn't afford them at the time. So we offered them equity for Malaysia business. So we went ahead. We trained them for six months. We gave them all our trade secrets, all our functions. We're going to build exactly in details. And unfortunately, they were building the same side as ours. And they created a similar site. So we wasted a lot of time and money. This is the last problem that I'm going to mention to you. As your company grows, you're going to face different kind of problems. You will learn from all your mistakes. And this time around, it's going to be a text from inside the company. So it's stuffing. I'm going to give a good example of this particular case of my head of sales. Basically, he was doing one in the beginning and then suddenly the sales started dropping. He started slacking off. I can see it as well. And then one day I confronted him. It's like, hey, what's going on? How come we're not making any sales? So it's like, okay, okay, I'll work harder. I'll make sure I'll get the sales in. We're coming to work the next day. Everyone's typing away, doing work. And this guy is doing this. The whole day, looking at the screen. So I was thinking, wow, he must be thinking of a strategy for us. So I'll come back to work again tomorrow. Still zero calls, zero emails, just doing this. It's like, oh, I'm watching something. I can learn something from this. Right? Sales didn't come in again, second month and then third month. By the end of third month, we cut him off. But to be honest, three months waiting with no sales can cost you the business. So sometimes you have to make that non-emotional decision to cut someone before you make, before it costs you the business. So that brings me to the end of my presentation. Sorry I was a bit nervous in the beginning. So in summary, if you want to be ready to be critical, stay focused, expand at your own pace and cut when necessary. You don't have to be a Jedi to win wars or build successful businesses. Han Solo didn't believe in the force.  Right? Thank you for your time. Okay. So some really hard lessons learned along the way. But I'm glad that you're not in how many cities now? Four cities now. So that's quite something. So we want to do a bit of Q&A if anybody has any questions. Yes. What you learned about reading people, having met all the interesting people that you have met through your stories. So now when you meet somebody and someone offers you new opportunity codes, how do you, what kind of questions do you ask to make sure that they are... Number three, stay focused. Don't stray. Be loyal to what you're building. So whatever the opportunity is, I think if your baby is now running by itself, you shouldn't be doing other stuff. I have a question. You have stress issues now. Definitely. I was a very nice guy when I came out from corporate. So now I'm a bit careful. But in the interview process with new employees, do you have anything to look out for which is, yeah, proposals or advice? We get testimonials from friends of friends and then we check out what school they go to and how they perform. And other than that, past portfolios, past work that they did, as well.  That's fine. This one, because I got quite close to him so I felt emotionally attached. I didn't want him to be disappointed. Did you understand what idea this is or not? I did, but it's quite personal reason so I don't want to mention it. If you had to do this all over again, what would you do differently? I would try to find a mentor to avoid all the costly mistakes and the slowness in growth. I could have grown the business a lot faster. So I wasted the first year basically just drinking. Sorry, three months. What's your favorite bar? I used to go to Penn Pacific a lot. Now I don't drink anymore. When I was working in corporate, I was thinking I just want to make a lot of money but actually after you start building your own business, you start to have different beliefs. I felt that being successful, being rich is not important anymore. I just want to contribute to the world and make a change. So I meet a lot of business owners and my passion is to really help them get the events so that they can make revenue and survive and grow. We can all grow together. That's what I want. Thank you so much. Awesome. Everyone, come on. Congratulations Ricardo again.


We planted our flax in the first growing season, 2021, and harvested it and actually produced the first piece of cloth as a prototype in time for the last British textile by annual in October, 21. This is the flax which is used to make the jeans. Yeah, so we think of jeans as being made from cotton and traditionally, you know, it's very associated with American culture. Cotton isn't grown in this country. Climate doesn't suit it, but we have our own native cellulose crop with thousands of years worth of heritage, which we've forgotten about, which is linen. So, flax makes linen, and you probably know flax better as linseed.  Throw that in the smoothie. A bit of a superfood to add in, yeah. So, I mean, actually even a linseed crop which has been kind of cultivated for the seed more has about a 50% yield of fibre in it, currently going to waste in this country. So, again, that's part of the things we uncovered during this investigation.


Welcome to Tough Love with Loretta Chan, where Hawaii's changemakers talk tough on the islands they love. And today's esteemed guest is a professor of accountancy and a director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute, or PAMI, in the Scheitler College of Business Administration at the University of Hawaii. And since joining UH in 1986, Dr. Daniel has served in a number of leadership positions and has generated over 25 million in sponsored research and training programs. She's also a licensed CPA and a past president of the Hawaii Society of CPAs and the Hawaii Chapter of Women Corporate Directives. She currently serves on the board of directors of American Savings Bank and was also recently featured in the book Inspiring Women of Hawaii, where 24 of Hawaii's leaders were profiled. So this is where I pluck the book that I wrote, and I have the privilege and honor of interviewing Dr. Daniel. So, of course, I had to take the opportunity to invite her to the studios, so please welcome Professor Shirley Daniel. Hello, everyone. Welcome, welcome, welcome.   It was a women in business conference at a Singapore Management University, and that was where we met. And we had no idea that years on we'd become firm friends. In fact, I really consider you a mentor of mine. But share with our audience, how did you end up in Hawaii in 1986? Well, I first came to Hawaii as a professor at the College of Business. But I came out as a tourist. I visited a friend of mine who I'd gone to college with, and she was working for an accounting firm at the time. And so in the course of visiting her, I met some other people, and I started thinking about Hawaii, but actually it was more of a personal reason that I ended up coming. And so six years later, after getting a PhD and changing my entire life, I ended up coming as a new green assistant professor at the University of Hawaii. And then you very quickly made segues, and from accounting you actually made headway into international business. How was that like in the 90s? Well, you know, again in the late 80s, it was the Japanese bubble, really. I mean, there was a lot of focus on what was going wrong with U.S. manufacturing and what was going right with the Japanese manufacturing. And so there was a lot of interest in academia about what management tools, what business accounting and management needed to be changed in the U.S. to compete in the global economy. And so even though I hadn't really had much experience with that growing up in Oklahoma, when I came to Hawaii, there were a lot of international business experts at the College of Business. And that's one of the wonderful things about the University of Hawaii, is that we have such a strong focus on Pacific Asia and Asian culture, language, business, law. And so when I came to the university, I began to see this as a real opportunity for me to learn more about Asia. And of course as a professor, the way you learn is you do research. That's right. And in fact now, I mean, you're so involved in the Asian community now, you are actually, you serve as the director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute of PAMI. So you travel a lot to Asia. Tell us about one of your recent trips. Because you're recently in one of my, because I'm from Singapore, and you just went to my neighboring country, Kuala Lumpur. That was your last trip to Asia? Is that right? I think so. Yeah, last summer, I was very lucky to be appointed in 1995 as the director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute, which was actually a center within the College of Business that was started back in the late 70s by Dr. Paul Chung. And in the late 80s, before I was the leader of PAMI, we had a consortium of business schools from around the Asia-Pacific region and several from North America. Right. And so Oceania, North and East, North and South East Asia as well as North America. And so we meet once a year. Right. And so in that process, we learn not only about business in Asia, but education in Asia. And so all the university deans and international business center directors can meet once a year and we share a lot of information about what's working in our programs, best practices, business changes. And it's a very good consortium for us to be able to be involved in. And it's been a privilege of mine to lead the organization. Yeah, so what do you think has been some of the key, I mean, I know this is a very short program and this probably leads to a way longer conversation, but what do you think are some of the key differences between, I was going to say we, but then I kind of feel like I'm from Singapore and I'm halfway in Singapore and I'm here in Hawaii. So how do you think we are different in the United States and in Asia? I mean, obviously I sort of kind of know the difference, but then what do you think?  Well, obviously things have changed a lot over the 30 years that I've been looking at these issues. In the 50 years ago, the higher education in the U.S. was the model. I would say now that the Asians are catching up very fast and so there's as much of a two-way learning process now much more than there was perhaps when I first started looking at it in terms of higher education. I think that the population demographics are different in each country. So when you go to a place like Malaysia it's a very young country and so also still on the lower end of development in terms of developing countries, so they have an education need in a business climate that takes advantage of and tries to meet the needs of this young population. So as opposed to if you go to a place like Japan or Korea, it's a much older population. So the difference in the competition and the types of programs and the class sizes and things are changing a lot. So again, in the Southeast Asian countries you have a different educational focus than perhaps in China or Japan. I also saw that you went to the Petronas Tower.  So how was that experience like for you? Because I think a lot of people have a misconception now of Malaysia especially with regards to Muslim countries etc. I mean how was your experience like being Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur? Well, you know we have a partner school there that hosted the meeting, the University of Kobangsan in Malaysia and they really rolled out the red carpet. We got our special VIP tour of the Petronas Tower. But they also took us to a lot of the special economic development zones that are right there in Kuala Lumpur where we were able to learn about the halal food regulatory system. And one of the goals of Malaysia is to become the leader in terms of certifying halal food that comes in and out of Muslim countries. And so they try to educate importers who want to import different types of food products, even bottled water. You know, you can get halal certification, bottled water. And other kind of beauty products, things like shampoos and things like that. There are certain regulations if you want your product to be certified as halal, they have a set of criteria. So these are things that are very important for if an American business wants to sell to this growing market in Malaysia they may think, oh, this is a way that I can get my product into the country. That's right. I think someone said, if you're not doing business in Asia, you're not doing business, period. On that note, I recently went to Big Island and I had a conversation with a local in Big Island who actually said that we have so many opportunities here in Big Island to process food and all that. But I just want to take it back to your expertise, which is an international business and enterprise. A CEO friend of mine said that, you know, many people aren't really keen on establishing businesses in Hawaii, only to the high risk of government intervention. And in fact, she cited that potential investors hear horror stories, right? Of permits being stopped or canceled, like the termination of super ferry or the ongoing TMT protest. In fact, she was saying that some U.S. mainland investors even regard Hawaii as an international location and park Hawaii under the Pacific Rim International Fund, right? So my question to you is, do you think Hawaii today is a hub of international business? I mean, do you truly believe that? Do you think we have a long ways to go? And if so, what can we do? Well, I think Hawaii is different and that's okay. It's a special place. It's an island. We have a unique cultural heritage and it's very important to maintain that. And if there are certain regulations that are required to keep Hawaii environmentally strong and maintain the culture and our social values, that's okay. That's something that businesses can deal with. I think the main thing is that we are transparent about them and that the rules and procedures are fair and transparent to everyone. I mean, every state has their regulations and one of the cases that's been made recently is the environmental regulations and some of the things in California have been criticized by some industries and some politicians but you cannot deny that the California economy is one of the strongest in the world, not just in the U.S. I think that some of the criticism is just a little bit of whining and that does present opportunities for people in Hawaii who are knowledgeable about these cross-country differences in regulation and in culture and if we can train more people in Hawaii to be the conduit to help explain the people who want to invest here, this is the way things are here. We understand how you do things, we understand how things are done perhaps in the U.S. mainland or in Europe and this is how to navigate things. In my opinion, there's a lot of opportunity for people who are multicultural, know the different legal systems and the languages and customs of both their potential customers and investors from abroad and locally. And speaking of being a conduit and navigating, you have been such a champion for women in business. In fact, you're one of the founders of the Hawaii chapter of Women Corporate Directors International. In fact, you're going upstairs for lunch later on with these women. Tell us what prompted you to start that because you're one of the founding members. Well, I've been interested in corporate governance for quite a while but I have to say that Barbara Tanabe gave me a call and KPMG who's the national sponsor for the Women Corporate Directors was interested in trying to start a chapter here. Barbara's on the Board of Bank of Hawaii and so they actually contacted me and asked me if I'd like to work with them to start the chapter and so I was really privileged to do that and happy to be part of it. What has the climate for women leaders changed me? Obviously it has, right? It is changing. You know, it's slow but steady. What else do you think we can do? Well, I think awareness is part of it but I think the goal of the Women Corporate Directors is to try to help women network with each other so that we can help each other when there's an opening on the boards. We can let other people know, hey, there's a qualified woman here in town that would be a good candidate, why don't you consider this person. That's right. And education, we have, our seminars are all about current events. We want our members to be better board members and we want to have more women assigned to boards. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to go for a short break soon but when we come back we are going to quiz Shirley Moore on obviously how do we get more women involved and we're also going to pick up brains on enterprise as well as education. So stay tuned and we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Rusty Kamori, host of Beyond the Lines. I was the head coach for the Punahou Boys varsity tennis team for 22 years and we're fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championship. This show is based on my book which is also titled Beyond the Lines and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence, achieving and sustaining success and finding greatness. If you're a student, parent, sports or business person and want to improve your life and the lives of people around you tune in and join me on Mondays at 11 a.m. as we go Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Keisha King, host of At the Crossroads where we have conversations that are real and relevant. We have spoken with community leaders from right here locally in Hawaii and all around the world. Won't you join us on ThinkTechHawaii.com or on YouTube on the Think Tech Hawaii channel.  I'll see you at the Crossroads. Aloha. Well welcome back and today we're speaking with Professor Shirley Daniel who is an accountancy professor and a director of the Pacific Asian Management Institute Opame and the Scheichler College. She's also a licensed CPA and a past president of the Hawaii Society of CPAs and the Hawaii Chapter of Women Corporate Directors. She currently serves on the board of directors of American Savings Bank and just before a break I was picking her brains on how we can get more women involved in corporate boards, right? So aside from just getting more women involved in corporate boards how can we inspire more Hawaiians towards enterprise because this is my quick observation, okay? I haven't been here for too long, just about a couple of years. What I've noticed is that I think Hawaiians in general are still pretty risk-averse except when it comes to surfing, I mean, they're like, they go all out. But when it comes to taking risks with business and their money I think they're still pretty risk-averse and that's what I think. Many prefer to actually work with the state or work for other enterprises and when they do take the plunge to set up businesses I've noticed they set up nonprofits or they tend towards network marketing. I'm not a fan, I'll say. But how do you think we can begin to even have this conversation on enterprise and getting people to be more entrepreneurial? Well, I think traditionally in Hawaii we have a lot of influence from the Asia region. And so I think particularly on the Japanese side you know, one of the largest ethnic groups traditionally here are the Japanese Americans. And that's just culturally Japanese, we know our Japanese culture is more risk-averse. And part of it is not, it's the fact that you have an obligation. I think if you start to think about the reason why they may feel this way in some societies and actually even Hawaiian culture is this way you're in a community and you have an obligation to the rest of your community. So just making money on your own is not necessarily what your key to happiness or your role in society. So your role is to be part of the community.  So it's not just your failure. It's a failure that you have sort of created that affects more people. And so there's a reluctance to do something that you might let other people down or let your community down. Yeah, that's just an observation because I remember speaking to Connie Lau because I was thinking like in America and maybe I'm Singaporean and I said, well, how do we encourage people to save? And she says, well, actually you'd be surprised.  But and so you're so right on that. I mean, so can I just pick your brains then? I mean, I hear you that there's a sense of obligation and duty. So instead of setting up say enterprises or going towards nonprofit, I mean, what about this model of social enterprise? I mean, I'm a huge advocate for social enterprise because I think that it fuses business know-how and being able to seize opportunity. But yet it could also allow for the local Hawaiians to say give back to the community. Right. I feel like this notion of social enterprise hasn't really caught on here in Hawaii. Well, I think it's kind of a funny name. So I think, you know, if we could come up with a simpler name, maybe it would be to explain it. I think that especially in the younger generation that they do want to have an enriching career. Right. So again, just a job that you're moving up the corporate ladder may not be that appealing to the next generation unlike me and my baby boomer counterparts. But so I think, you know, having some sort of a mission where you're adding value to society is desirable. Right. The question of how do you set up the enterprise to do that, you know, that might be an argument or something to look at in terms of different legal formations. So as an educator and a business person to me, what you actually did to us in the 90s, you worked with Dean David McLean to found the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship. So do you think, and I feel like what you're doing is using education as a platform to guide youths, the millennials and the alpha generations to come, to sort of gear them up towards having the entrepreneurial minds that you're guiding them through these educational platforms. I mean, share with us more on what you have done and what you are doing. Well, in the late 90s, I was able to spend some time and look at other business school activities on the mainland and I saw that many of them had entrepreneurship centers and we had not yet established one. So when I came back from that study trip to these different schools, I said, we should have an entrepreneurship center. Yeah, absolutely. I asked some professors to come out from established programs during the summer and teach some courses and we learned from them and we set up the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship. Right. And we were very fortunate that we got some donations from investors, local community people and some from California and also at that time the governor also helped to seed our entrepreneurship center. So we got started on a program, we developed a number of courses and an annual business plan activity and the program has grown since then. Wow. And again, the idea is to try to expose students to successful entrepreneurs as role models and to allow them to have some practice to develop a business idea and sort of get it strength tested or stress tested in a business plan competition. And so we, you know, there's a whole process that actually will be starting in January. Oh wow. Every new year we have it in the summer or in the spring semester rather. So they can find it online and in the summer. Yeah, if you look at the Pacific Asian Center for Entrepreneurship in the Shidler College, you'll see information about the business plan competition that's going to be starting. What are some of the biggest success stories from the business plan competition on the off the top of your head? Well, I have to say we've had a number of really great ideas. Some of the best ideas are when our business students pair up with those in the sciences. So you don't have to just be a business student to participate. You just need to have one person on the team be a UH student. And so I guess one that's close to my heart is my friend over in electrical engineering, Maggie Eskindar, who won a couple of years ago with a medical device that he developed to try to detect lung fluid, which is a problem for heart failure patients and actually a number of diseases. Is that already in the market? He's been developing it. He's gotten a couple of NIH grants since then and trying to keep developing the technology on that. Wow, that's amazing. And on that note, again, going back to enterprise and education, you are obviously a huge believer in education. You shared with me that your best investment has been your education. So given the high cost of college, we're just talking that we have all these great competitions, et cetera, in UH. But what do we do if some of these students aren't in UH? Are there ways to help them get access to education? I think you're working on something to initiatives. We have programs that I have been associated with in the past, the gear up program, where we developed ways to go down into the junior highs and try to get people in the junior high to start thinking about college. If your parents never went to college or you don't know someone other than maybe your school teacher, which is not necessarily, you don't think of as your friend, if you don't have a personal relationship with someone who went to college, you may not think of it as something that you could do. So one of the first things is to get students and their parents to realize that college is possible for them. And college doesn't necessarily mean going through a four-year program. It can mean going to one of our excellent community colleges. I know you're teaching it. That's right. Thank you very much. Come to Leroy. There are a variety of skill sets that you can learn through the community college while you try to figure out what your career path is going to be. Some of them are in healthcare, some are in the building trades, some are in other kinds of computer technology. Each of the community colleges has some really unique programs, even things that are focused on Native Hawaiian cultural practices and fishing and farming and things, as well as our excellent culinary programs that train people for all of the world-class hotels and restaurants that are here in Hawaii. I'm actually really interested in that, so I'm going to quiz you a little bit more on your Native Hawaiian initiatives, because obviously I teach out in Leeward, and I also started like a theater program in the Waianai Moku campus, that there is a huge interest now, especially when I go out there to the Waianai Moku site, like these students are actually inspired, like they want to come to school, and it was not a possibility for them, so what we did was we took college to them, and we have now a campus there in Waianai Moku. My question to you is that in 1998, you and your staff led the proposal development for the Native Hawaiian Leadership Program, right? Well, share with us a little bit more about that and where that is now today. Well, the program was a grant opportunity with the U.S. Department of Education, and I worked with a few others, and my very good friend, Manuka Iyama, who became the principal investigator for the program when we got the federal funding, and she ran that program for maybe eight or ten years, I'm not sure how many, but the focus was to try to not only provide scholarships for Native Hawaiians to go to college, but also to develop leaders by funding faculty, Native Hawaiian faculty, so that they can get tenure. We had graduate scholarships, so that you could not just finish undergraduate, which is where a lot of financial aid focuses on undergraduate. Sometimes in certain fields, you need a master's degree or even a Ph.D., and so we funded some graduate work, and so then when that program was sort of rearranged by the Department of Education, she was working with the Kamehameha Schools to try to continue some parts of it, and in this last year, they've gotten a new grant, and so they're funding some more graduate scholarships than some other programs under that new grant. Wow, amazing. You know, my friend Manu is an excellent strong leader within the Hawaiian community. But on that note, I have to congratulate you. You yourself just won a Fulbright Scholarship, or grant, right? Well, I'm in the process of hopefully getting Fulbright. The U.S. phase was successful, so now it's in the hands of the European side to see if they will fund my project. I'm hoping to do some research next fall when I'm on sabbatical on the new restructuring directive that the EU... I know, I was looking at photos on a research project. I'm always so jealous, right? But anyway, on that note, while I dream of spending Christmas in Europe, I thank you so much, Dr. Danil, thank you so much for being here, and for all of you, thank you so much for watching Tough Love with Loretta Chan, because you know, tough times don't last, but tough people, like Shirley, they do. And so will you. Well, join us next year where we'll see you in our brand new studio. Well, till then, season's greetings and meli kaliki marker in advance. See you next time. Bye-bye.