My name is Julia Penfield and I'm the Director of the Future of Land and Housing Program at New America. This webinar is a part of New America's Aftershock series, and we're so pleased to co-host it with the Norwegian Refugee Council. As we sit here today, we know a war is raging in Ukraine, and Russia's invasion has sparked a massive exodus. Nearly 5 million Ukrainians have fled the country and another 7 million at least are internally displaced and that number grows every day. Entire cities are being destroyed by Russian shelling. Right now, Ukrainians are fighting for their homeland and in many places their lives and the most immediate needs are for military support and humanitarian assistance. But there's another critical question that's emerging as it does in any conflict and that is what we're here to talk about today. What happens to the properties that millions of Ukrainians are leaving behind and the countless buildings that are being shelled? When the day comes for Ukrainians to return and rebuild, how will they reclaim the home still standing and receive compensation for the houses that have been destroyed? Today, I am honored to be joined by four experts to discuss the measures that policymakers must put in place right now to increase the chances of a successful post-war restitution effort. And what Ukrainian refugees can do to improve their odds of reclaiming what they left behind. These experts are helping to think through these issues in Ukraine in real time and I want to in particular thank my Ukrainian colleagues for taking the time to join. This is a difficult conversation because while it may sound sometimes like we're discussing laws and policies, in fact we're discussing people. We're talking about people's lives and their homes. It's a difficult and personal subject, but for the reasons we'll get into during the panel, it's one that needs to be discussed urgently without waiting for the dust to settle. So I thank everyone for coming together for this conversation. I will now introduce our four incredible panelists. We'll talk for about 40 minutes, and then we will open it up to audience Q&A. So please do drop your questions into the Slido box as we talk. First, I am pleased to introduce Vladimir Kerbalase, Housing Land and Property Coordinator for the Norwegian Refugee Council Ukraine, as well as the Housing Land and Property Technical Working Group within the UN coordination system in Ukraine. Vladimir has spent the last several years working on housing land and property issues in Ukraine, with a particular focus on the compensation and restitution issues that we'll be talking about today. As well as security of tenure, property records and ownership documentation. Next, I would like to introduce Dennis Nizalo, Senior Land Governance Advisor for the Pryndex Project and a senior lecturer at DeMount Fort University. Before taking this position, Dennis was the program director for the World Bank's program on supporting transparent land governance in Ukraine. Next, I am pleased to introduce Katerina Reznikova. She is the technical director of BlomInfo Ukraine. BlomInfo is a Ukrainian company that since 2004 has been developing GIS systems in the Ukrainian market, maintaining and filling land, cadastral information systems, spatial planning and creating community resource management systems. Experts from BlomInfo are included in most of the Ukrainian government's working groups for the development of new regulations and legislation, including property restitution. Katerina's colleague, Helen Lesenko, will be translating. And finally, I am pleased to introduce Professor John Anra, a professor of geography at McGill University in Montreal. He has over 25 years of experience in developing and implementing research, policy and practice on land and property rights in war affected states. He's worked in the Middle East, Latin America, Africa and Asia for a variety of multinational and bilateral donors and NGOs, as well as country governments. Welcome everyone. I'd like to start the discussion with a question to John. John, let's start with a broad international perspective to frame the issue. Typically, during conflict, what happens to people's homes and property? What are the major things that you and other international experts worry about in these contexts? Thank you, Julia. Well, apart from the unfortunate destruction of damage and looting that goes on to people's homes and properties, what we see is a broad collapse of livelihoods as the various systems that support livelihoods, food, education, water, security, also collapse. And the difficulty then with returning home. One of the primary problems that we worry about is that people, of course, depart their priorities are getting through the day. Frequently, they can either plan in advance, but most of the time they simply run out the back door of their house as a battle looms or opposing forces approach. What that means is that they very often don't take evidence, documentation of their attachment to their housing land and property with them. And so they don't have it. If they do take it with them, they very quickly come to realize that it could be confiscated and used against them so they can destroy them or purposefully leave them behind or erase them off their phone. Their housing land and property can also become traffic, right, as we've seen in Eastern Ukraine with the militias operating there. The reality is that there's a very narrow window between which people become aware of what other non documented forms of evidence they have be able to gather that upload it to a platform and then get it off of their persons as they continue to flee the theater of conflict, not being able to do that to grasp what attaches you to your home is a primary problem because frequently those that flee are not aware of just how easily it is to become completely and permanently disconnected, legally, physically from your housing land and property during war. Thank you. Thank you, John. Now, I'm moving to Vladimir and Katerina. I'm coming directly to the conflict in Ukraine. You're both on the ground right now, Vladimir with NRC, Katerina with Blamenfo. Can you describe what you're seeing in terms of what is happening to the homes and property of Ukrainians and how the situation is differing from city to city. What are the biggest challenges that are emerging? And maybe we'll start with Vladimir and then move to Katerina. Hello. I'm happy to be here, but my English is not at heart level. And I will ask my colleagues, Elena, to help me with the translate. Do you not mind? Elena, do you hear me? I want to tell you that we agreed to agree. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to inform you about the current situation in Ukraine regarding property rights, including land plots. Regarding the situation with land plots in cities where active combat activities are taking place, then most of the housing is ruined or damaged. It's the situation with property in the cities where active facilities to place most of the housing and social infrastructure are very destroyed. And the situation does not differ much from city to city. What needs to be done? What are the specific ways to deal with this? Currently, it is important to quickly fix these losses, evaluate the losses and begin to pay compensation or renew the housing fund. But for now, this is very important to make adaptation of existing legislation to the condition of material law. But for now, this is very important to make adaptation of existing legislation to the condition of material law. In order that all other actions of fixing destruction, evaluation of losses, payment of compensation and other procedures were to place in the legal field. But we should remember that Ukrainian citizens who suffered from the destruction of real estate, demands of building housing for them. Moving to Vladimir, go ahead, Vladimir. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. I will try to answer a question in English. Well, first of all about the situation on the ground. Well, I would like to make it as clear as possible that the situation is arise significantly depends on the different region in Ukraine. So I personally classify this area on three different types. The first one is the areas with the light destruction or single cases of heavily destruction houses. Well, it is most common. This case is mostly common in Western and Central Ukraine and some big cities like Kiev and Odessa. These areas actually have experienced some single cases of airstrikes, but it didn't happen on a daily basis. So in practice, it means that you can found a few buildings, not always residential, which was heavily destroyed or damaged and such bigger number of light damages caused by the explosive wave around. The second type would like to describe the medium one. So these cases is mostly common in settlements in the Northeast, East and South Ukraine. Well, and I identified three main factors which actually affect the level of destruction. The first one is whether the settlements was located on the occupied territories. The second one, whether the settlements was used by armed forces for the transit matters or has been used for overnight stay. And the third one is strategic importance of the settlements, for example, like Kharkiv or Mariupol. So usually it means that it's such kind of settlements you can find a lot of completely destroyed or damaged houses. And I mean including residential with a huge amount of light destruction. And well, let's be honest, I'm not an expert in damage assessment, but on my personal experience by the medium level, I mean the cities like Spucha and European you might probably have seen photos of. And the last one, the third one is a heavily affected area. So due to different reasons, this area was unlucky to take the strongest and the strongest wave of destruction. I mean Mariupol, I mean those city Borodyanka in Kiev, Oblast, and I mean those numerous small villages on the way on the strategic roadways. So these settlements actually looks like it looks exactly like an image of the city after war in our head. So, and also to to to be brief and to finish the situation the ground I would also would like to compliment what has been said by the previous speaker, the most of them these settlements has experienced really strong issue with lack of electricity to water and heating, grocery shops are mostly closed due to the logistic issues and some areas even now remains really hard to reach due to the destruction of the local infrastructure. I mean roads breach the mine contamination and the unexploded ordinance of war remains a significant issue as well. So this is like to briefly explain what is the situation on the ground up today. Thank you, Vladimir. Staying with you for just a moment. As we know, while the invasion that began in February is a major escalation. There's been a conflict going on in the dumb bus since 2014. And that conflict has resulted in significant property destruction as well. And the Ukrainian government has already been addressing this over the last several years. So can you tell us briefly, what has been happening with property in the dumb bus over the last several years. Thank you for the question. Well, in order to answer this question briefly I would like to say that for the first few years after the conflict has started in Donbas. And the Ukrainian government has been deciding what is the most effective and the proper way to resolve to address the needs of the conflict affected population. So in 2019 it was a decision actually to launch the compensation program for completely destroyed housing. So Ukrainian context has already a successful example of the protection of the housing rights of the conflict affected population. I would like to say a few words how it was the way how it has been done by the by the government. The first of all, the approach which was used is slightly different from those we've seen in another context. So the government use the study, which showed the average price for obtaining a new house in the region. And they decided to provide those people those house was completely destroyed with them with this exact amount of money, which allow them to buy a new house in the region. So it doesn't matter if your previous completely destroyed house was the price for this house was higher or lower. Everyone received the amount of money, enabling them to buy a new house and this program was piloting into 2019 then in 2020 and 21 and actually more than 500 households receive the compensation and we're unable to resolve their housing needs before this escalation of the war in 2022. Thanks. So yeah it's it's remarkable and you know it's unique that Ukraine already has a bit of a model for the, these compensation schemes because this conflict has been going on at a lower scale, of course for many years. So, Dennis moving to you. As john mentioned a major issue is often that property rights are not documented to begin with or, you know, people don't have documentation or the registry doesn't exist. It's difficult to sort out who owns what, but Ukraine is a bit different since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 91 Ukraine has undergone extensive land reform. So, can you tell us a little bit about the status of property rights and people's registration in Ukraine right before the invasion. Thank you very much. Indeed, the situation in Ukraine is quite different than you may imagine in other conflict affected areas. And, well, we should take a couple of things into account. First of all, the property right private property right did not exist in Ukraine before 1991. Effectively, and in the process of privatization, people were granted property rights for their housing and for land. And most of these transactions are documented. So people have one or another form of the documents confirming their property rights. However, there is a big difference between land rights, land related rights and rights for housing property. As you know that Ukraine went through some major land reform just before the war. And in preparation for this land reform for opening up the agricultural land market, most of the issues related to documentation related to infrastructure for supporting transaction was upgraded. That means that most of the documents and most of the rights were present in an electronic disaster, unified electronic disaster, which included close to 90% of the private property for land and a large share of state land. So the land property was documented electronically and also in preparation, not all but a large portion of it. And one factor that moved this sort of formalization process was the rental market. And as you probably know, most of agricultural land is cultivated under the rental rights. So the agricultural companies had an interest to sort of secure their rental rights and they helped land owners to document the property rights to begin with. But then also they have documented the rental rights in the state register of rights. That's sort of a big picture of what happens with property rights for land. Moreover, many infrastructural things were developed and implemented before the land market was opened. So issues of unclaimed rights were addressed in the legislation, for example, for the unclaimed inheritance or unclaimed privatization rights. So they were addressed in the legislation. Things like remote sensing of land use where it was implemented and tested for the entire territory of the country right before the war. So we have something to compare what happens after the war during the war with this effective land use before the war. The situation is different with housing. Even though many people, most people have some confirmation of their property rights. In many cases, this documentation is in a paper form. Unfortunately, before the war, we were not able to create a unified a disaster for real estate and each city approached this in a different way. We have some cities like Keith, like Lviv, which have established a very sophisticated system with all the rights and all the technical characteristics of property being documented. While in some other cities, particularly in smaller cities and villages, this information stayed in the paper form. So that leads to the reason that when the war started, many archives is under the risk of being distracted. John has rightly mentioned if people have lost any paper evidence of their property rights, restoring such rights may be a problem, particularly for the areas that were under occupation or which were directly on the front line. Thank you, Dennis. John, moving back to you, what typically happens to destroyed and abandoned properties once a war ends? And then John, if you'd like to answer and then I'll open it up to the other panelists if they would like to jump in as well. So what do we foresee happening to destroyed and abandoned properties in Ukraine once the war ends? What would typically happen? Sure. I can start off. So typically what we see is a large involvement of the international community assisting the government with what we call a large scale housing land and property restitution process. In this case, meaning also compensation for people who cannot return to properties that are destroyed or damaged or who do not wish to come back.  Part of the issue is that we have an example like Ukraine where the government is very able, expertise is high, significant progress was made prior to the war. And still there's the issue that no country, whoever they are, is in a position to manage the millions of people that will be returning home and filing claims and trying to get compensation and trying to solve housing land and problems all at once. So, so imagine, imagine the large scale return that goes on largely uncontrolled, and people arrive at their property is damaged is destroyed someone else's in it somebody sold it. And so they have to go somewhere else to live. And so this is a enormous problem. No country can do this. And so the international community does have a package. It can come in, establish a land commission, take all of the housing land and property problems out of the normal court system because it would usually just completely overwhelm that put it separately and engage in what's called transitional justice. The transitional justice is something that is short term, it's temporary, that the justice part, it does things like categorize as claimants, and then passes a single legal decision for the whole category. One of the primary worries here is that a government will want to take on all of the many, many cases and look into them and decide them one by one. That takes decades to do people become very unhappy sometimes very angry that it's taking so long. And so that becomes a real problem. The international community the restitution process has a number of techniques that it can use to make this happen very, very quickly for large numbers of people. So what we usually have is a partnership that goes on between the international community that supports national governments in this large scale restitution compensation process. Thanks. Thank you, John. Moving to Katerina and anyone else who would like to jump in after her. Remarkably, we know that the Ukrainian government is already taking steps to think through the property restitution process after the war ends. Tell us a little bit about what the government is already doing. And in cities that have been liberated already where the Russian forces has have retreated. Is that process already beginning. First of all, I would like to say that I agree absolutely with Denis and we are very lucky that we have all these electronic registers and cadastries that allow us to renew our right of ownership already directly in electronic appearance, although they are not all 100% in electronic appearance. I fully agree with Denis and would like to confirm that we are lucky that we have electronic system and cadastres and that residents of Ukraine have got the right to renew their rights to the property. Also, the registers are not complete on 100%. However, no one of these cadastries does not work and it is impossible to conduct any transaction with property. But now none of these registers are working and there is no opportunity to make transaction regarding the basis of these registers. I would like to say that Ukraine is a peaceful country and there is no experience in our military state. I would like to underline that Ukraine is a peaceful country and Ukraine has a good experience living and existing at the process of martial law. And now it is very important to adopt our legislation to the condition of the martial law. Our government has been adopting some regulations that will assist to resolve the situation that we are in the state in Ukraine. First of all, this is the law of Ukraine, the law of regulation, the use of agricultural land in the martial law. This law regulates the use of agricultural land in the martial law and regulates some of the prestigious aspects. Regarding the composition of land management, documentation and others. The second main resolution is the resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers on approval of the procedure for detonating the damage and the law of regulation. This resolution is the resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers on approval of the procedure for detonating the damage and the law of regulation. which are divided into 15 areas. According to the regulations, the definition of damage and losses is determined in 15 areas. And they are divided from human losses to natural resources. They are concerns from human losses to losses of property and the losses of the environment. According to each of these 15 areas, the responsibility of the ministries that have to develop the method of distribution of these losses. According to each of these directions of damages and losses, the ministries have been identified and these ministers are obliged to develop calculation methods of estimation of damages and losses. The term that our state has been working on for six months is set by the Ukrainian State of the Ministries to develop the method of distribution of these losses in six months. The active process of the fixation, which is related to the active process of the fixation of damage in the cities that have already been caused. At present, it does not happen as actively as we wanted it to be. And the reason here is the only one. The reason is that the consequences of the military actions are not liquidated and there are major risks of mincing the territory. The inter-liberated areas, city settlements, does not take place now. And one of the reasons of it is that these are consequences of hostility which have not been eliminated in one of these hostilities is the mining. Katya, would you like to add something else? If I do not encourage you, if you would like to add that after the end of mining, you can proceed to the orbit. Right? Yes. Katya would like to add that the active process of fixing destruction can be started at once. The mining was done, will be done. Thank you. Latimir, Dennis, I'd like to give you an opportunity also to answer this question. What is the government already doing? Well, first of all, indeed there are several things that are already in place and implemented. For example, the government has the active instrument of identification and recording of all the explosions. Whatever happens on the ground, there is a system already in place that records such events. Also, there are several systems where people can declare the losses, including the one that is implemented via the government portal called DEA, where people can sort of file the claim for the losses. And there are several other platforms that were developed by various private developers where people can document, provide evidence of the losses and which is used for assessment of losses. Right? However, I would like to return to the point that Katya has mentioned that effectively now neither the registries, registries of any registry and the state cadastres, they are not operational. They were evacuated from Kyiv to a safer place. However, they are not providing support to the transactions as they should be in the situation of peace. So, and that leads to several issues which we have discussed with government officials that they urgently need some support for sort of restoring the services but providing the level of cybersecurity that is necessary in this situation. But second, if possible and where possible, there are needs for urgent intervention to digitize or to copy the archives that were not digitized before the war in areas where it is safe. So that's something that is urgent but then we can follow up on these points about the development of methodology for loss assessment. There are also a couple of things that needs to be done. If may I to compliment what was said by the previous speaker, I would also just want to mention that if you more, if your actions more focused on the policy development was also taken by the Ukrainian government. For example, I would like to mention that the draft law on the compensation, compensation slash restitution procedure has been already submitted to the Ukrainian parliament has been successfully passed through first hearings. And now it is on the way to the second hearing of the Ukrainian parliament and the member of parliament and other state agencies and all of their non profitable organizations has an opportunity to provide the responsible ministry with the suggestions. With the suggestions how these draft law could be amended before its final revision final final adoption. This is just short, short update also from my side. Thank you Vladimir and now I'll come to the final two questions that I will ask and I will ask all of the panelists to briefly answer and I think you know to me these are the two most important questions of the discussion so I hope that I know these, I hope that you pay attention. The first is, what can displaced Ukrainians be doing right now to ensure that they can reclaim their property once the war is over, or receive compensation for anything that's been destroyed. I agree with the previous speaker Denise and I would like to underline that the first thing which Ukrainians should do is to register the damage at the state part of the action in English. They can do it regardless of their location and to do this the citizens of Ukraine need to know information about the object that was damaged, make photos and description of damage and all contact information. Can I jump in at this point, I think there is no need to invent a will. And I think what John has mentioned to make a copy of whatever proofs you have that's the safest strategy so we don't know when and how the registers and cadastres will be operational and what is there what is not and how secure will be the copies of your documents. So if you have a chance to make copies but not only of a title but all the documents that can document the technical characteristics that can document the rights that you have that needs to be done and this electronic copy should be stored somewhere in a safe place. And prep just to follow up on on those two very, very useful contributions from the international perspective, what a land commissioner transitional justice process likes to see is corroboration. So you may have a document, but that document exists where services are destroyed the National Archives may be destroyed there's falsifications of documents, so it likes to see corroboration.   When was there a drought. When was the price of bread high, all of these details, particularly that that testament to attachment to place that's very valuable for corroboration, because those who are going to engage in fraud will not have that. And so corroboration is seen as very, very valuable and so part of this is an awareness raising for people who are dislocated as to what what is good for this this form of corroboration but that's part of the challenge and it has to happen fairly quickly. Thanks. And also to complement what was said by by the previous speakers. I just want to mention that Norwegian Refugee Council has a huge experience on providing freely go late to Ukrainian citizens who were seeking for compensation in the previous, the period so to summarize yes I would definitely agree the first step is to inform the government on the destruction. It's very well covered by the speakers also. If your documentation were undamaged, please check if these documentation meet formal requirements to recognize you as a legal owner of the property, it's because of the complication of legal system as was previously said by Dennis. The last thing it's also extremely important that, even if your documentation with damage to destroy it, do not take much of time to, to apply for free free legal aid providers in Ukraine, who can support you with the further legal actions need done in order to enable you to receive compensation in the future, and also what is really important keep monitoring the, the situation with the legislation, in order not to miss the opportunity to apply to submit a compensation application or anything. What everything else should be done from legal perspective. Can I just add one more point please to what John has mentioned. An additional piece of evidence that people can use to restore their rights is the testimonies from people from neighbors from local authorities. That sort of saw the previous owners of exercising their rights so I think an additional piece of information that people need to have with them is the names and contact information of their neighbors and of their local government so that they can at least ask for such testimonies if needed. Thank you for providing those very concrete steps that Ukrainians can be taking right now and you know the sooner the better to document their ownership. So I'll come to my very last question. What can the international community be doing right now to help with this process. What are the biggest and the most urgent needs. Let me start and then another panelist will complement. Well, I would like to be really pragmatic and open with all of the attendees of today's our today's event. The first of all, let's be realistic. What will happen with the compensation. There is three main factors that affected the first one is of course is political will of the decision makers. The second one is a financial capacity of the state and the third one is the technical capacity of the state officials to develop and design the proper compensation restitution mechanisms. So of course I will not tackle the first one, but more focused on the second and the last one. It's about financial capacity. What could be done right now. The first one is to have a contact with the relevant governmental stakeholders who will be responsible for managing so called fund for reconstruction of Ukraine discuss with them their needs. There are fundraising opportunities and support them in calculation of the financial resources required to provide restitution compensation. The third one is a technical, the technical support for the state authorities and I would like to share the, the experience of Norwegian refugee council. Well, when a few years ago when we coordinated with the Ministry of Reintegration, we had a meeting and we said that we know that you have a political will to launch this compensation mechanism. Let us support you in design the exact mechanism, how it should be done. And they agree in that because you know, I'm, I cannot say on behalf of Ukrainian government, but it is very, very open government to work with. So, if you have something practical them to offer in terms of like how to establish proper state register of violated property rights how to collect data on scale of destruction, how to develop efficient and effective mechanism for compensation. Do not hesitate to contact them. I, I want to emphasize as much as possible that they are really open for the practical solutions practical expertise and practical recommendations from international community, especially if it, if it will be linkage between this international community and national legal expert who can translate these solutions into the language of Ukrainian frameworks and policies and loss. This is my main recommendation. If you follow up then I would also suggest that we consider, you know, the ways how the international community can support Ukraine in this situation, sort of this recommendation can be into groups. There are some urgent needs of the government and of the people of Ukraine in, in terms of protecting property rights that is related to the operation of Cadaster and registries, preserving the archives, recording the damages and so on. However, the time is the essence. So, if such aid can be provided fast enough and would respond to the actual needs that is needed. However, if this any suggestion or any technology cannot be transferred soon enough, that probably it's not a good idea to try to do something that would take, you know, years to implement, right, we may have peaceful times for, you know, something that is more time consuming. However, there is a second part of the support that would require sort of strategical changes and longer time for implementation and that is related to methodology development, putting together the infrastructure for the restitution, the means for rehabilitation of land, for demining of land and so on. So these things will have to be ready by the time when Ukraine or any parts of Ukraine are liberated and these things have to be implemented. And so now we have time to prepare for this. And I think that that is very much on demand. Thank you. Just to follow up with those very good comments. Certainly agree from the international perspective. Now is the time to begin to prepare. So, to those agencies, for example, within the United Nations that normally work on restitution processes. IOM, UN habitat, even UNHCR should right now be familiarizing themselves with the authorities and the experts in Ukraine in order to try to try to think forward. However, as any says mentioned, there are very immediate needs. Those needs would include assisting with the digitization of paper archives evacuating those paper archives. And starting to engage in perhaps raising awareness among refugees and dislocated people as to what constitutes good evidence. The risk here that we've seen in other other conflicts is that people may have a lot on their phone. But there's their world can shrink by and large to their phone. And so they begin to delete off of their phone, very valuable information as opposed to uploading it first, because they don't want to get caught, for example, with that material on their phone. As we've seen in Russia where phones are being confiscated and searched for for different things. So that's the risk, the risk of loss. So I would just I would just support that. Quick digitization, the technology can be provided and the assistance very quickly. That's great, along line with awareness raising as well. Thanks. Well, colleagues, I summed up our conclusions that we would like to receive support from the international community and this led to four main classes of support. I summarized the steps which international group can assist Ukraine in restoring citizens and property rights. There are four steps which I would like to tell you. Yes, the first step is to create an expert group to which international experts with the appropriate experience, assessment and fixation of the ruin, directly on the level of our cabinet minister. Establishment of an expert group at the level of the Cabinet of Ministers Ukraine, which expert groups should include international experts with relevant experience or for assessments. And it will be highly appreciated that the expert group and the experts themselves made the methodological approaches, which build it on the level of the Cabinet of Ministers Ukraine. Which will be based on a simple and accessible calculation of the risks. The second step is to develop the appropriate instrument that will allow you to fix the ruin and with the use of modern technology, LiDAR, photo-video fixation and so on. Based on the development calculation methods, it's necessary to create a geographic information system for fixing damages and which system should be recorded and calculate the methods of compensation for losses in each industry separately. It can be used measurement for the fixation, scanning and others. The third step is that at the present moment it is necessary to create a team of experts who can fix it. That is, there should be a mobile team with the appropriate equipment that will make this fixation, that is, this should be done professionally. And the last step is to test this methodology in one or two territories that can be chosen in Ukraine for the pilot project. So we have time for just one question. Many of the questions that have come in have been answered through the course of our conversation. So we have time for just one question. Many of the questions that have come in have been answered through the course of our conversation. So we've had a couple of questions related to properties in Crimea that have already been expropriated and what's happening to properties that had been expropriated in Crimea. If somebody would like to just jump in and provide a brief answer to that question, that would be fantastic. I'm sorry. I can try to respond so my colleagues would like to. Okay, I will try to respond and then if somebody has something to compliment, please go ahead about the Crimea, you know that until this escalation of the war, there was no compensation mechanisms for the property which was expropriated in Crimea. And also, in addition to Crimea issue the expropriation of property has started since the summer in non-governmental control area in Donetsk and Luhansk Oblast as well. So the measures which were taken by the government is actually the non-recognition of any legal actions related to the property located in Crimea or in another non-governmental control area. If these legal actions are not followed with Ukrainian legislation and are not recorded in Ukrainian legal registry. So this is the answer what is happening in Crimea property and another property, immovable property located in non-governmental control area. Thank you. Thank you Vladimir. Well, with that I would like to thank our panelists and the audience for tuning in and I'd just like to close by addressing my Ukrainian colleagues and anyone tuning in from Ukraine directly. Thank you, Vladimir. We will move forward and we will rebuild our Ukraine. Glory to Ukraine. Thank you everyone. Glory to the heroes. Glory to the heroes.


Video video this hang out on air is live Yeah, it's ready Let's do it. Let's get the control control.  I forgot to give you to constrain control today It's a roll. It's a roll. All right. There you go back in my voice Here we go Daily Tech news show is powered by you to find out more head to dailytechnewshow.com slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday September 14th 2017 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Justin Robert Young How the heck are you Justin? Oh always good to be on the show Tom very very excited to chop up Not only all the news but also some some real news you can use with the Equifax thing Oh, yes We are gonna get into not only the latest with Equifax and their latest admissions into how the vulnerability happened But also what you can do what you need to do or what you can consider doing to protect yourself If you are or think or fear that you are affected by this about half the country is So it's it's not a small chance Roger Chang is here as well Roger. How are you? I am good We were actually having a lovely discussion about optics and tech companies and government contracts So if you're a patron, you'll get to hear all that fun stuff Yeah, go check that out. It's in the the patron feed or it will be if you're watching this live Patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know Google has announced an event for October 4th expected to be new pixel phones It just says Stuff about phones and the date but but the website and the billboards and the videos show people typing things like Why can't my phone? Be nice to me Stuff like that various endings to the sentence meanwhile droid life's Kellan Bairinger noted that an FCC filing indicates that LG Seems to be the manufacturer of the pixel to XL. That's the large version Of course HTC is expected to be the company making the pixel to we'll find out all these details on October 4th Justin So this is the final entrant into the big debutants ball Flagship cell phones, right? Yes This is the last of the heavy hitters the grand holiday The coterie has assembled. Yeah, we have the HTC you 11. We have the LG V30 we have the essential We have the Samsung Galaxy S6 and the Note 8 and we've got the iPhone 8 and 10. Yeah, so yeah, oh and jammy jammy did theirs to the memix to there We go the final descendant of the ballroom staircase to Come out to all the phone buyers. Hmm. I can't wait Snapchat has launched 3d bit moji world lenses Which allow you to put 3d cartoon versions of yourself into real-world scenes on snapchat the 3d bit Moji's are animated and adapt as you walk around and move your phone I didn't show up for me yet, which I'm sure they're just rolling out so I'll probably see it later, but I Made an open snapchat for the first time in a while to check it out I like the idea of a little 3d me walking around with me. Is that that's really nurse is Well, I mean emojis are always very fun because they add that little extra, you know It gives you a little bit of that I just photoshopped this feeling without any of the work because they do do a great job of You know making these these great moments of explosion and emotion, but you know, this is the The next step forward on the dancing hot dog, right? It's the it's snapchats answer to an emojis, right? Yes, and no, I mean this is almost more of a An answer to Pokemon goes You know kind of a are have you gotten one yet cuz I'm curious exactly how they work I'm not although. I did see a guest on DTNS and a business insider gadget editor Steve Kovac took a red eye from from San Francisco to New York and then I had his little bit moji Moji Steve Kovac hanging out with him. There's a little Little Cove's just drinking his coffee today. So I did see one posted something So it doesn't turn him into the bit moji. It just shows up. No, it's another little sprite Effectively, it's it's Pokemon go it is Every little Pokemon right in front of your field of vision mini me is yeah Putting big tech companies in charge of what we should be allowed to see has blown back a little on YouTube in two instances this week YouTube has pulled a channel that posted North Korean state television programming Over fears that it might be controlled by the North Korean government And if it was that would violate us sanctions and companies are getting a lot of pressure to take responsibility for what's on their platform So they yanked that and the experts who analyze North Korea are a little upset because this was a useful resource in monitoring The country was an easy way to see what North Korea is saying about itself Which is important for analysts YouTube also pulled an Estonian Latvian animated short film villa and trope off For violating its nudity policy. There's brief drawn nudity in the short film This film however won an award at the 2012 Krakow Film Festival and was nominated for the best short film at the European Film Awards And supposedly a little nudity is okay in artistic situations according to YouTube But whoever reviewed this one didn't think it was now They could dispute this and get it restored, but the folks behind the film said we're not gonna argue with them We're just gonna leave it off and go to Vimeo Yeah, you know YouTube continues to have these kind of stories hit the press and and who knows how much You know the tail is wagging the dog in terms of they're stepping up You know demonetization and stuff like that whether or not these stories are just going to pop up More often than they would before but certainly the the idea out there is and very often It can be politically co-opted that Silicon Valley companies are censoring what you see To shape the world that you live in and I don't think that this is that There seem to be at least rules that they have previously set up or they're obeying with the rules that they Have to by law comply by but you know, certainly this story is out there that this narrative has been set Well, and I've seen a lot of people saying oh YouTube is silencing whatever this point of view. I agree with by demonetizing them And I've I've dismissed most of those because I'm like YouTube silences people all the time DTNS gets gets things about against it All the time because the bot mistakenly thinks we had copyrighted material and Lately because it thinks there's offensive material in DTNS I've disputed a half dozen of these over the past month and I didn't pay it No, never mind because I'm like, yeah, that's the way YouTube works It's got a crappy bot that misidentifies things all the time and you just have to dispute it and get on with your life But these two in particular I caught my eye because They were different Well, you know, this is an award-winning film. So it should have been Caught by a reviewer that says oh, yeah, no, that should definitely be an exception And and yet the whoever reviewed this passed it along through and and also with the North Korean state television Now maybe that maybe that film maybe the short film wasn't reviewed by a human Maybe it was a small enough channel that it didn't get reviewed. I don't know Yeah, and that I think is the larger and more consistent problem with YouTube is that their decisions are Mechanical and their changes or revisions to the decisions are far too slow and impersonal and yeah Sometimes it's a gigantic company that has to make a lot of these but That has always been sort of the push back to YouTube And they are putting machine learning into into play for things like extremist videos and terrorist videos So I'm sure eventually they they will roll that out more broadly and maybe that will finally improve the content ID bot. I don't know Meanwhile freelance video editor Keith Cremble emailed Craig Federighi with some questions about Apple's face ID Federighi responded saying face ID should work with most sunglasses He also said that it would be hard for someone to unlock your phone by pointing it at you You have to stare at the phone or it won't unlock plus if you grip the buttons on both sides of the phone it temporarily disables face ID Yeah, so okay, I have you know if if the if the person asked me to hand over my phone and I like ooh, they're gonna try to unlock it by pointing at my face. I grip it and hand it to them That's the idea Thief pulls it out of my hand. I don't have a chance to do that But then the the mitigation there is well, just don't don't stare at it Don't stare at the phone if they're pointing it at you, you know over your eyes and it shouldn't work Of course, that makes me wonder like so how fast does it open when I pointed, you know This is definitely gonna be slower than touch ID because I have to be pointing it at my face I also have to be looking at it. So I'm just I'm curious how that's gonna play in reality But it sounds like the fears of you know, anyone could just point your phone at your face are Partly overblown Well, yeah, I think that that's safe to say and again We do not know how this technology really works in the real world And we will only find out as soon as reviewers get their hands on it and they will say One of two things to me most likely either a this is better than you think it is and in fact It feels more of a seamless experience because there's no button that you have to press to unlock your phone be it Mechanical or otherwise or that this similar to touch ID is a good first draft and we will all look forward to iPhone X1 when face ID works better in the same way that touch ID worked better on its second go around. Yeah Absolutely The BBC has an article about Colu an Israeli digital currency company whose local pound liverpool has become frequently used mercy side Users get one local pound for every pound sterling. They add to the Colu app It's one for one no transaction fees Colu makes its money by charging 1.5% on the withdrawal So as long as you're just trading it around with other Colu users You don't lose a thing local businesses have embraced it because they avoid the fees associated with credit cards if I pay them They don't have to pay that transaction fee For instance the BBC describes that a customer buying a sandwich at Delhi Fonseca in liverpool used Colu Then Delhi Fonseca uses its Colu bucks to pay sugar and lime That's a company that it rents equipment from for catering sugar and lime on the other hand Would like to start paying its suppliers in Colu But until the suppliers start taking Colu because they're not all in liverpool It doesn't end up costing them much more than credit card fees would to just pull the money out So they're like, yeah, I will accept it. It doesn't have a huge benefit for us But I guess if it's a benefit for our customers, that's great Liverpool assistant mayor Gary Miller would like businesses to be able to pay their taxes with Colu Which would give sugar and lime another option to avoid the fee shifting it on to the city More than a quarter of a million local pounds have circulated so far in Liverpool according to the BBC So this is kind of a cryptocurrency, but it's not necessarily like a blockchain situation Or or an open Bitcoin situation. It's a company that's making money off of it, but it's apparently taken off Well, largely because the merchants have gotten behind it We saw this situation with Apple pay and Samsung pay all these NFC pay situations that You know, some of the the bigger volume convenient stores pushed back against it because They hoped that as technology shifts They would have the ability to save millions of dollars in credit card transaction fees And they were upset with the idea that if technology would give a new easy way to pay that they were still tied to credit cards this on the other hand is But exactly what they would want, you know that they would want you to effectively You know change your money into Disney dollars and you can pay to anybody that uses it This is also a great little case of adoption, you know That how much things get going if all of a sudden everywhere you go Takes it.  You're gonna lose 1.5 percent It's not a it's not a usurious amount when you pull it out And you don't have to pull it out and the more people that can figure out how to use it the the less Chance you're gonna have to actually pay that 1.5 percent Gary Miller is actually talking about paying employees and then these Liverpool pounds I'm not sure if you'll be able to get the city council on board with that but but The idea is wow, this is this is something that's no longer theoretical This is actually catching on with a significant population I'm not saying that all of Liverpool is is using this but enough are that it caught the BBC's eye And that it works for places like Delhi, Fonseca and sugar and lime So I wonder if there isn't a better way to do it I mean granted the Israeli company behind this has got a lot of venture capital and they're saying hey We're the next uber we're gonna make this happen in other places They're doing it in two locations in Israel as well But what if a city? Implemented this and said hey, you know, we'll we'll take the hit on on the cost of running it But just keep all the money locally because the one thing about colu is you can't sign up if you're a chain like Starbucks Ah, so it is yeah, I mean, I don't know the other thing about this though is like exactly how different isn't from PayPal That's like saying you know how different is Facebook from Twitter They they're both social networks. They there's there's differences in the way they operate and in the perceptions I'm not saying they're they're the same But I would like to kind of explore because they take you have your PayPal You're like hey do this now put pay with PayPal in your window. Congratulations zero transaction fees Yeah, I think Colu can get away with some things that PayPal can't because they created their own currency It's a it's a nifty workaround PayPal has to follow a lot of regulations and a lot of different companies because they're storing actual money What Colu is saying is we're not storing any money People paid us money for our product and then our product we can do whatever we have after that If this gets to catch on in more places and with more people using it I have a feeling the regulators are going to come a call and Sure Hey folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines.com you can get it as a podcast It's on the Amazon Echo and it's available on the anchor app at anchor.fm So Equifax announced that attackers exploited a vulnerability in the Apache struts web application Framework in order to gain access to the network and eventually access the 143 million US residents records vulnerability was patched by Apache on March 6th of this year The Equifax intrusion began in mid-May So you're talking a two-month gap from Apache saying hey better patch this and Equifax Apparently not having it patched Fixing the breach did require downloading an updated version of struts. You couldn't just patch in place You had to replace your your implementation of struts and then use that new implementation to rebuild all the apps Made with the previous version and then of course the rebuild apps would need to be tested to make sure they don't break key functions So let's not damn Equifax with not having downloaded and installed a patch on day one This is something that would take more than several days possibly weeks And when you're a global company like Equifax with as many different applications as I can imagine they run This is going to take this is going to be a considerable effort That's not to say that i'm excusing them Uh, it probably could have been done in two months in a separate discovery researchers that hold security discovered an online portal for argentinian employees allowed the user id admin and the password admin to gain entry to They online portal which is very bad security the portal was taken offline by Equifax after being alerted by Krebs on security You put this with all of the little missteps with their wordpress site That they put up for people to check if they're vulnerable and sign up for trusted id And you really get the impression that Equifax Doesn't have a completely competent security team. You know what i'm saying uh, I think uh one of the Issues is that it might have just been a back burner thing where security was uh more of a Like yeah, we should do that too, but our prime focus is to make sure we get these credit scores red credit ratings So we can divvy them out to whatever agency uh requested it's kind of like having a um It's like running an auto dealership where you're more concerned about You know getting cars out the door then kind of ensuring that you know when customers come back Uh and for their servicing and all that stuff is taken care of all the bulletins if they're fixes or whatever That the car need to run safely uh and reliably Uh, it is kind of a second second secondary issue Yeah, and it's hard to say what actually happened inside Equifax, right? well Except for this and this is again the the story of our modern age that There is on the highest levels with the most treasured data that we could think of a continued lack of rigor when it comes to patching things when it comes to cyber security This is not unique to Equifax. This is not unique to governmental situations. This is not unique to other companies Uh, there is just a uh, you know the war is here Whether or not anybody wants to imagine it. So you know, this is this is like game of thrones winter is here Yeah, take precautions Against it not only is winter here, but the dragon just burst through the wall, right? Yeah and and and that's the the problem is that There still is exactly what roger said this idea of well, you know, let's let's just make sure that we have our priorities in order and No, this is job one If you are holding data that is sensitive and I mean if you are Holding any kind of subscription or personal data The first thing you need to do is make sure that's secure and then do your job and then sell your product and then service your customers because Everything else is in your hands And I think this is not I think this is worse than most security breaches We've we've had security breaches at banks banks tend to be more secure But they're not immune and so at first when this first broke I said well, hold on everybody gets breached Let's not damn Equifax just because they got breached. That's like blaming the homeowner because someone broke into their house Yeah, let's find out what happened. Well, what happened was they didn't properly secure things They didn't properly patch things in what appears to be a timely manner. I mean, I'd like some Apache Some folks who work with Apache every day to tell me if it's reasonable or not to expected them to have patched this in two Months, but I think it is Uh, let's also point out that when credit card companies get breached And even when merchants get breached you usually hear the story of Personal information was accessed but credit card numbers and financial information was properly encrypted Uh, and that didn't happen here so so This is bad This is one of those situations where you say nope They should have done better 40 states u.s congress and usftc are investigating the Equifax attack Equifax CEO Richard Smith is going to testify to the house on october 3rd us representative carolin meloni a member of the house subcommittee on capital market securities and investment has asked Experian and trans union CEOs how they are in dress addressing info security saying let's let's make sure that the other two Don't get hacked and Equifax has stated multiple times that it has removed the arbitration clause and class action waiver From its trusted idea premier terms of use and it will not apply to people signing up because of the breach I'd like to have that in all of their terms, but Uh, the way is clear for this to be litigated and and testified in front of congress Uh 100 and and and you know again patrons can enjoy our conversation about optics, but liquidating some of your stock before you disclose a major cyber breach Never the best look horrible horrible Yeah, hold hold hold on. Let's all put the torches down for a second. It is possible I I don't even want to say it's likely but it is possible that that was just a run of the mill trade Because it was right after the window opened and that these guys had put the order in before there was any Possibility of them knowing of the breach. It is possible It certainly is in light of everything else that Equifax has done It makes you not want to believe that that's the case, right? That doesn't mean it is or it isn't But it certainly haven't done a lot to make you feel like well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt Choose one. It's either Exactly what it looks like and it is indeed walking like a duck and quacking like a duck and in a duck or Boy, this is call it lemony snicket because that was a series of unfortunate Great how those lined up All right, so Let's talk about what you can do because it doesn't sound like Equifax is going to do a whole lot more than what We've already heard they've done. I know I almost feel like saying you've done enough. Yeah What should you do to protect yourself? So what do they have they have? If you're in the breach, they could have your name your social security number your birth date your address Some instances driver's license credit card numbers for approximately 209,000 us consumers Certain dispute documents with other personally identifying information for approximately 182,000 u.s customers And apparently even some limited info for uk and canadian residents Although that they didn't give numbers on that The only way to find out if you're actually in this breach or not is to go to Equifax security 2017.com put in the last six digits of your social security number and your last name and trust the result they give you I have done this Both times it told me I was not in the breach. I have Heard from people I know that they put in their information the same way twice and got two different results and i've seen other reports about that So there is something slightly unreliable about this and I don't have an explanation for it But it's the only way to find out for sure If you know you're talking about nearly half the the adult population of the united states more than half of the adult population of the united states It's reasonable to say, you know what? I'm just going to assume. I was in it if I can't tell for sure, right? Well, I mean it's certainly probably the safer way to go about it right is is to take precautions Again when it comes to cyber security we can point and and either throw scorn or laughter at Equifax's way or these other companies But we are also our own entities that are our grist for the mill So if you are not taking precautions yourself Then you too are asking for it And I wouldn't necessarily recommend people jump right over to Equifax security 2017.com if they're worried about security because The track record is not very good. All right. So what else can you do? That's the other things and sorry just to go back to that. Yeah, yeah There was a different site. It just had all The red flags and warning signs of a fishing site. Yes It it looked like one it smelled like one and and when when when my wife first told me Hey, you should run your information through there every red flag went up of like This doesn't look like it's from Equifax. It has a different url like they're it just your fishing senses get tingled Yeah, it just seems like, you know paypal dot by dot us, right like Yeah, paypal security breach.com meaning I'm going to breach PayPal security once I get your information Honestly at this point I'm amazed they spelled security, right because that would have been like, oh, what if the i was there or they miss You know, all right. All right. We get it. Equifax is a punching bag. Uh, what can you do about it? Well, Equifax is offering a free year of credit at monitoring through its trusted ID product If you trust them and believe they have properly changed their terms of service, you can sign up for that Unfortunately to sign up for it. You have to go to Equifax security 2017.com The thing that you should probably consider to do is putting on a credit freeze A credit freeze prevents creditors from viewing your credit file Which will prevent anyone from taking out a loan in your name when you put the freeze in place You'll get mailed a pin. The pin is necessary to lift the freeze. So you Put the freeze in place and then let's say you actually want to buy a car or refinance your mortgage You find out from who's giving you the credit which credit reporting agencies are you going to check? I will call them and lift the freeze within three days. They're required to lift the freeze temporarily You'll let the people who are giving you the loan check your credit and as soon as they're done You put the freeze back in place now You have to do that every time and you have to do that with all three Equifax Experian and Trans Union There's also a smaller one called Innovus that you may want to look at although the FTC doesn't list that one as being Worth wow, but you might want to check that one out Equifax is offering free freezes until november 21st So you can put it in now for free and if you have to list it Or if you have to lift it before november 21st They wouldn't charge you everybody else is going to charge you a small fee between five and ten dollars To put in the place the freeze and probably to lift it If you need to get a new loan or credit card, like I said, you're going to have to pay that fee To lift it, but it's it's a small fee now if that if you're like, I don't know I did the site It's telling me i'm not breached Uh, but I still I feel weird. I don't trust it. I want to do something But maybe the freeze is too much you can consider a fraud alert A fraud alert is free and it lasts 90 days And what a fraud alert does is it requires the creditors to verify your identity One of the ways they do this is to have a phone number on file That you say call me if someone wants to see my credit report and I'll let you know for sure whether that's okay or not And so it routes it through you It doesn't stop them from seeing your credit like a freeze But it will make you verify it before they get to see it If you have been a victim of identity theft you can report that at identity theft.gov And get an extended fraud alert that will last seven years I have done this because I was part of it a massive identity theft at a company. I worked at and I got I got this free fraud alert Put in active duty military can also get a fraud alert for a period of one year For for any reason they can put it on. Uh, so that's that's your options. Justin Trust freeze or fraud alert Uh Hey, listen, I think that this is going to be a fantastic Teachable moment for a lot of people to understand what their tools are for this because This is certainly the theft of our of our modern age. This is how People will affect your life now. The other good news here is that If somebody takes a fraudulent loan out in your name, you also have another host of options to deal with it and by and large you are going to lose time you will you might lose Some some very very frustrating moments On hold to make sure that everything gets settled, but you will most likely not lose money Yeah, and if you if you do feel that you are a victim of actual identity theft Go report that because there's a lot of remedies that can be put in place to to get you your money restored in some cases and at least Reclaim your identity and again that that url is identity theft gov. These are all us Since this attack affects the us the information we're given out applies to the us I apologize that we don't have better information for uk and canadian residents since there are a few of you At least affected by this And we'll we'll keep looking for that and try to add it to either the show notes or add It in a future show as well If you want all of this stuff it is mostly in our show notes, but I tidied it up And put links to all the credit reporting agencies to the pages where you can request a freeze and everything And our patreon post We have a weekly newsletter that goes out to the associate producers at patreon.com slash dts and this week's post is not Restricted anybody can view it. You don't even have to be a patron of dts to view it Because this is important information. So if you go to patreon.com slash dts And look for the post titled what to do about equifax That that will be the one that has all the information in it So like I said go to patreon.com slash dts and check that out anything else justin uh No, uh beyond all the you know needling of equifax I I believe that there certainly are some very troubling elements of that, but They won't be the last ladies and gentlemen.  Yes indeed. Uh, well a couple emails before we get out of here neal Like the show yesterday listened to this morning on his way to work said i'm disappointed that the app store is being removed from iTunes due to two-factor authentication issues I have an old iphone 4s that I use as an ip security camera using a third party application called ip camera The latest ios supported on iphone 4s is ios 7 which doesn't support two-factor authentication If I attempt to log into the app store on these phones. I have no way to enter the authentication code So instead of removing two-factor authentication from my account I've been using itunes to install the ip camera application updates on these old phones Now there will be no way for me to do that I have to hope to find another workaround if for when there is another application I need on these phones or just keep an older version of itunes around I guess Uh for working with those phones that that's kind of your only option deal I I realize this is a niche case, but it's a great use for an old phone and a proper use for one and it's uh unfortunate that He you basically if you have an iphone 4s, you just can't use two-factor authentication now Uh, this is uh, just A very dTns email and I love every instrument that you're right There's no reason why and this is there's a lot of like the cultural kind of uh, Sturman's wrong about the iphone X it will always be x x go and give it to you, uh announcement This week 10 that okay, you're gonna spend a thousand dollars, but it's disposable. It's a fashion Statement right, but you're you're absolutely right and so is neil These are very powerful machines Whether or not they are state-of-the-art and they have tremendous usefulness Far far far longer than uh, you know, I think we we think of them as as just kind of becoming obsolete Immediately after a new version comes out So yes, he should have the right to be as safe as he wants wants to be and still get 4s uh and use out of that old 4s And I certainly hope that maybe there's uh, you know another another way Another work around to do it and and I hope that as we continue to grow Uh an apple continues to you know have its legacy line of phones continue to grow longer and longer that There are ways to to make neils life. Yeah Best one is probably just keeping that old version of itunes around for a while But again after a while that's risky because you know, it's buggy and the security vulnerabilities of its own and stuff Uh pd wanted to point out something important regarding the idea of using google voice to handle your two factor authentication codes We talked about this yesterday and darin kitchen was nice enough to let us know The benefits and foibles of doing it this way But one thing we didn't talk about is that our entire scenario assumed that you used google authenticator As your second factor for your google account. That's the little app or maybe a dongle that gives you one time codes Do not use google voice itself To handle the second factor for the google account that that google voice is part of Because that's a recipe for locking yourself out of your account. Yes. Yes. No, that is uh Very very very well said do not be that guy. Yeah, don't do that That is it for this episode of daily tech news show. Justin robbie young. Thank you so much Uh, well, thank you tom, you know, I'll tell you what uh, this is An independent program that is created Without any help from a network without any help from from any larger structure And and obviously there's a lot that uh is happening here where i'm very very proud I don't know if we've we've talked since the official Announcement that uh that that sarah lane was was coming on uh once the patreon milestone has hit I am thrilled to again, uh do a show with you and sarah when that happens and I'll tell you what there's a lot that goes into making a A show like this better and continue to grow and and serve you the listener as best As we can and uh, I i'll tell you what I took it to heart a little bit And uh in an effort to kind of make everything that I do Even better all the podcasts that the twitch.tv slash justin r young Uh i'm i'm gathering some information. So if you go over to my twitter twitter.com slash justin r young There's a little survey there if you listen to i mean you're listening to me now If you enjoy me on this show or you listen to anything else that I do I very much encourage you to take this survey. It's very quick. It's only I think like six or seven questions But it gives me a fantastic idea. It's pinned right there to the top It's a google form, uh, if you uh, if if you take it it just gives me so much more information as to uh, who i'm looking at who's Uh listening so I can continue to cater everything that I do to the folks that I care about the most which are the listeners and the viewers Go do it man. You don't have to give any part of your social security number to answer these questions No, yeah, so go to you're going to take the survey at aqua fax 2017 uh dot kazakhstan Uh, no, yeah, do do go to twitter.com slash justin r young though and find that pinned post Uh and and give them your your honest answers. Uh, thank you, uh for for mentioning that our our patreon push sarah lane In position ready to join. We just need six hundred twenty eight more dollars at this recording. Oh my lord that Here's the thing. Let me let me put out a challenge If you listen to this show and you've not already adjusted your patreon and you got a tip That will make your life safer in terms of uh, credit freeze Or figuring out a financial way that you can protect you your business your family and your children Then consider just consider if you got out of it Just raising your patreon or coming onto patreon at a buck a buck a month You would you would uh, you know barely barely notice A buck a month and yet if 600 people do it we could have sarah lane on this show tomorrow If one of every two people of 1200 of you do it We could do it. We could we could be at our goal tomorrow. That's it We actually can't have sarah lane on tomorrow though because she's in baltimore But we'll have her on october 1st. She would call in you can make that work. She we would we would we will we will make that happen Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so please uh, if you can uh help us out Please do huge thanks to all of you who already have I know a ton of you have already Increased or started supporting the show and uh, I cannot thank you enough Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live Monday through Friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha gig radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with patrick norton to tell us what parts you need in your pc And len peralta to illustrate the show talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com I realized I shouldn't have said baltimore. I gave it away that sarah is uh doing the remake of the wire the dark reboot The dark reboot jesus Yeah, it's uh, it's gonna be you know, still more of those light themes from the original. Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. No finally Finally, we get the gritty version of the That all the fans have wanted Uh, that that so this is gonna happen soon, right? If it's only at 600 I mean, okay the acceleration The velocity I guess has been declining Uh, so I I I I don't know what day I would predict Now you are getting back to the point where it ramps up again, right? Because everybody wants to be the one to push it over the top. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah We are and we're at the midpoint of the month too, which is that that's about you know, when you have I mean not that we wouldn't do this whenever we crossed but we kind of said we'd like to have it done by October if we possibly can so yeah 628 so close so close So close titles What do you have for us roger you prude you prude get it like youtube you prude. Oh like youtube you prude got it. Okay. Yeah YouTube pulls nude tunes Uh, originally I thought I thought Zoe brings bacon wrote roger's god, but just as roger's good, you know, you read what you want to see I know apple has a grip on security winters here for equal effects Fishing senses senses tingling eco facts is a punching bag. It will be for quite some time uh equal patch State of the state lost its address disney dollars. It's a duck Don't use google for google. I shall call him 3d mini me Apple's grip on security you get to disrupt you get to disrupt you get to And then uh, oh, so we put roger's god at the bottom I'll move on to that one Equifax struts its stuff its stuff was never patched. Yeah Equifax struts its stuff is pretty tempting. I mean I I think I think I think this whole equal facts really Just brings to light the fact that we're still using a turn of the 20th century Systems that was meant for people to collect their social security insurance as a means I don't know if that's true I I I feel like that's letting them off the hook a little No, I'm not I'm just I I understand what you're saying and you're right. I I think equal facts deserves All the all the fury that it's been getting but I also think that we just have a system that isn't adapted for a digital Uh digital century. I think we need to come up with another way That we uh, why are we always I guess the only reason I I I think you're making a broader point That's probably applicable in general but in equal facts this case patch a patchy It wasn't it this was preventable. This wasn't a problem with the system. This was a problem with your implementation of security Like they knew what to do This is remember when we talked about criminal negligence the other day on the show and it's like if you should have known That's that's negligence.  I said without a doubt. I mean this again. It's it is job one Uh, uh, you know what what is the first thing that you need to do if you're running a bakery every day Make sure that you paid your light bill, right? Uh, right That that Or your heat bill again, whatever whatever we make sure you pay your fires the ovens. Yeah Yeah, whatever whatever your water bill is like Your entire business hinges on this and I do think that this is a legacy of Leadership at these companies are often folks who don't realize That this is not just a thing that might happen This is a thing that is actively happening at all times and you need to act like that Well, and it's easy to think. Oh, it's those it people. They didn't do a good job And maybe maybe that's it but there are plenty of scenarios where this exact same thing happens because Some executive doesn't approve the man hours the resources the priorities that that were needed to patch this Yeah, that happens too. Uh, yeah no the um It's it's it is it's just a priority and and you you the leadership comes from the top All right, I'm tempted to name it like winter is here for Equifax, but should we name it what what you should do about Equifax? Uh, that's less fun. Yeah About Equifax. I'm I'm always for The more boring titles because I feel like The boring titles are useful. Yeah titles are very fun for us right now, but very quickly become Confusing as soon as we move into another day Well, and I feel like a lot of times our show is full of so many different things that it kind of doesn't matter what we call it Right, uh, but today there's there's something particularly of use to people so I'm with you What you should do about Equifax Or Equifax Or you Equifax Equifax FACTS So ironic since I I've been using their credit monitoring Uh service for like a number of years Makes it all even more awkward Last time I moved I needed a credit report, you know to show Uh landlords and uh, I used TransUnion. They were the cheap one. They were the the most affordable Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting because um All three of the services is a lot if you if you pay for the credit money allow you to lock your credit from them But Equifax and TransUnion have the thing where if you pay extras like 10 bucks, uh an extra 10 bucks you can lock Uh, not a TransUnion Or Equifax from each other's service Uh, you know Equifax said they were working on an offering to let you freeze all three From through them, but they didn't have any other details about you.  Sounds like facts equal facts Yeah, I mean credit monitoring is is good. It just lets you know someone opens an account Freezing your credit really helps but it also You have to be on it if you're like what you've said If you're trying to get a home loan or car even a car loan Yeah, um or a new credit card any credit card. Yeah You're Equifaxed otherwise Oh stop It was just one of those Equifax ups that happened Yeah, experience and Equifax all carry the same information No, they don't have you ever compared your three I compared uh TransUnion and Equifax with I have I have different information in all three of mine That's because I'm not real I you know, I'm surprised my information is pretty similar across all three And you're a much more consistent person. You've also moved less. I think that I moved less But I also have a lot more loans than you do You have more what more loans to my name Maybe yeah, I know you have more property stuff going on in it. Yeah So I had a lot of credit cards in my history back in the 90s Uh, it's funny. I went from one credit card to three and then back down to Amateur three Or you at um, what was what was the high point? I mean Probably seven Yeah At my top but at one time that's simultaneous Like if you look at my credit report, it's just littered with all the different credit cards I jumped around what were you doing at store credit cards and That's the one thing I never signed up for a word like a tar any kind of store credit card I would always jump to the new credit card that gave me the lower interest rate in the 90s I had like I had like at least three or four different visas and master cards that I could juggle And then I had you know, like a jc penny card and a best buy card and a radio shack card And those were all considered credit cards as well. So that's how I got up to seven I do not have that anymore. I dug myself out of that hole, but it was not easy I Man makes my head spin like I just too much to juggle Three is max. That's all I would want to deal with once that's stored, but um One for my bank, uh one from nb and a and what about you justin a couple of ones You know, I never really had a problem with credit cards Although it was a credit line that I wound up having a problem with that was my uh over draft credit line at hsbc uh, and uh, uh, I definitely ran up I think at its worst about seven thousand dollars worth of debt on that And then I I paid That off as I you know kind of just had more money Come wiser I had a good ten thousand dollars of credit card debt because I would also pay off one credit card with the other credit card, right? Did that that little shell game with myself?  I don't have this extra money I'm gonna live the same way I did and just shovel that all at the credit card Oh, my wife is that way.  Yeah Well, now I pay it off. I don't let it revolve Yeah, no, I pay it all I actually have a really good credit now because I uh was able to keep the Credit card that I used to book all my travel for the go game in my name. Oh nice So that helped. Yeah, I bet that helped help with my credit Um, although it shouldn't should it right? Like that's a that's a bolder ability. That's a weakness in the system Uh, yeah, I mean I just got paid on the other side of all these, uh, You know, I mean, I guess it shows some responsibility because you had to pay it You had to go through the motions of paying it. You could have been taking the money from one side and not paying it Oh, yeah, no, but it was amazing. I would I would uh, I had the united club card, right? So high yearly fee it's like it's like 300 dollars. Yeah, but You get access to the united club, which I've always maintained if you fly more than five times a year It is a way to make your life better can't say pre or global entry and The club of the airline of your choice also No matter what pick an airline pick an airline and get the points and get the status on the airline it Is ultimately worth more to you than either flying a budget carrier that doesn't have those reward systems or Jumping around to the best price and saving 30 40 dollars. This is if you fly like you say five times or more. Five times a year Yeah, I'm talking about the person who flies home for Christmas and just wants a bargain No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, if you don't fly all that much then then it's not going to be that worth it or you know a lot of these credit cards uh for for uh You know if you only fly two or three times a year that you probably know where you're going to fly reliably Each year you can figure out which airline goes there the most often at the price that is the best for you Get their credit card and a lot of times Uh, their credit cards come along like united's credit card comes along with two free united club passes, right? You know, you can still go there any hoot I was booking all my travel and my hotels and my rental cars On the united thing Which not only gave me miles on top of buying a top of the miles through the credit card Uh, but then also I was able to pay it off uh in full every month. Uh, which was good for my credit I pay most of it off. I unfortunately always have like a 100 bucks or something That goes over to that's actually not terrible. Uh, uh, you know keeping keeping a balance on a card is actually, uh Good as long as you're making regular payments.  It's like I go in there. I set up the auto pay And then a month later I get the your account is, uh, uh overdue It's like So annoying. I don't know what the deal is Yeah, I don't trust auto pay for most things I have a couple things set up for it that seem to work and they're they're low If they fail, but I have two hulu and my cell phone and they both pull for my credit card um Who do you guys got in the uh, uh, uh triple g canelo fight this weekend? I don't know what that is What is that the triple g canelo canelo? It's uh, it's uh, it's a boxing big ol Boxing that boxing is back, baby Well, I know I know in the last uh in the last couple I need to know what this is about. So is it triple g versus canelo triple g versus canelo. Okay, uh, uh Triple g probably one of the more exciting boxers over the last uh, couple years kazakhstani Doesn't look uh, doesn't look like the most physically imposing person on the planet. Uh, and yet Has uh, so hard his punches land so hard. You can just watch The youtube's of him. Uh, he just collapses his opponents. Uh, it is kind of stunning to watch meanwhile uh, canelo Uh, is canelo alvarez is uh, the mexican probably the most Uh, hyped mexican fighter since uh, uh, delahoya. He's a big guy pretty boy Well wound up fighting floyd mayweather earlier in his career and and losing Uh But uh, but now In his prime he goes up against the kazakhstani Uh, uh fighter triple g again gany Something glovekin so nobody can pronounce his name. So he's called triple g Gennady, maybe is it in any something glovekin is is uh, is is is his name? Uh, I can't I can look it up Gennady glovekin Yeah, oh gennady gennady of itch gennady of itch just means son of gennady So his dad was named gennady too gennady gennady of itch glovekin triple g triple g from kazakhstan From kazakhstan the great kazakhstan he's kazakhstan of But uh, um, yeah, I'm gonna go triple g. I think um, I was leading canelo Yeah, because uh, you know, I'm I'm pro mexico, you know delahoya was a golden age But you're right. He's a little bit of a pretty boy. Yeah, it's no disrespect meant by that Uh gennady just seems like a little bit more of the uh the underdog in this match Uh, he's kind of goofy. He's earned. Yeah. Yeah kind of goofy. He uh after a fight Uh once uh, and they said like do you have any thoughts leaving? You know, uh being now being done with the fight. He said yes. I want a steak I kind of love that He's from karaganda kazakhstan. Yes Uh, so uh, yeah, no, it should be uh, this is going to be of the two fights They kind of split the difference of being The biggest fight ever in that one Mayweather mcgregor had All the hype all the pomp all the circumstance all the racially troubling uh dialect, uh and Really a kind of fairly middling uh a fight where the expectations were set So impossibly low that the fact that it was barely competent Uh was was a shock and delight to everybody to this is probably I mean, you almost hate to say but this might be the last of the like Boxing mega fights. There's just no more stars. These were these are two of the Last kind of like star stars that have continued to win which is An important thing in boxing because if you just start if you're Adrian brawner or something like that who is good, but he just kept losing so he had So is that an issue of just not having uh that they could remedy by just Training new fighters a new generation or no like uh, well the problem is this Boxing is not run by any kind of central organization and the money As soon as the money got so big per pay per view The onus of making the best fight kind of went away Because why risk killing your golden goose? Uh for one big payday when you can have Four fights at 75 percent the payday Right and just fight people that nobody wants these guys to see or continue to obscure whether or not they're good and that kind of I think Stops the ability for stars to be created now The other hand is is you know, uh espn has gotten more involved in in boxing And that that's something that could kind of bring it back a little bit is putting it back on free television where you can you know buy everybody Seeing these fighters, uh, you know, they can continue to build a star power I I kind of I think you've just made me a fan of triple g He's pretty great. Yeah, I mean like I I I know that this is not exactly the kind of place where uh, we want to get into like You know, uh, rock them sock them, uh sports talk or whatever, but The the youtube videos of a triple g tko's are like awe inspiring because he is just like just a well built dude who just knows exactly where to punch people and uh, it's it just He just shuts the other like it's not like mike tyson where You know, you would he was just an awe inspiring machine in terms of just knocking people out by punching them in the head So hard that their brain went to sleep Uh, this was more this is more of the like You know, all of a sudden your liver gets punched so much. It's like, yeah, you want to know what I'm going to shut things down I don't I think also Well, I should say that I have to make an nfl crack Um, because in boxing, you know what you're in for that's that that's where I was going to go with that you know, I was actually, um talking about the nfl today on my twitter Because I apparently feel the need to hot take and literally every arena at once I saw the roger gadel Posts, uh, is he the star? Is that the brother? He's the number one star of the nfl and I don't think it's because he meant to be or he is the glory hog of it but Look at all the headlines and understand that in the off season He's the one that's mentioned the most it's about roger gadel and isekiel elliott roger gadel and tom brady roger gadel and Uh, uh, all this other stuff. So it's like the two biggest stories in the off season were collin cavernick and Ezekiel elliott and roger gadel one story that is just Uh, so divisive on political lines, right and and involving Just a lot of although important Unfun, I think would be universally understood topics of race and police and and whether where appropriateness and whether or not it's good for to do during the flag or uh It looks as if there was a domestic dispute with a promising young running back and There are no good guys as Uh, you know roger gadel over prosecutes like he always does with no impunity with with with total impunity I have one more question for you about this. Justin and i'm gonna ask it On the patron post show. Goodbye everybody


Behold the herb that healed the armies of Achilles. If it only could have protected that heal. Bummer. Yaro is actually named for the mythological hero Achilles, with its full Latin name actually meaning a thousand leaves. It's Yaro. Yaro has been used for thousands of years from the indigenous North American tribes where the Navajo called it one of their sacred life medicines to China where they used 64 Yaro sticks to read the I Ching. Yaro is also helpful for bird's nest and it's also helpful for other plants because it repels parasites and helps soil quality. But y'all are here for the health benefits so let's get started with wound healing. The ancient Greeks used Yaro to treat wounds and wisely so, as Yaro is styptic, which means it can help stop bleeding. Modern studies also back up how it helps with wounds thanks to its various properties. There is even one study that showed how it's particularly helpful in apesiostomies in women after childbirth. Now even though Yaro stops bleeding, I keep seeing Yaro. Now even though Yaro, I don't know why I don't want to say it that way. Yaro, Yaro, my mind, what am I supposed to do? Now even though Yaro stops bleeding, it can help with blood flow and circulation as well. Now old fogies like me, gosh is that right am I an old foggy now? Well I want to try it because it can help treat or prevent varicose veins and spider veins. And on a more serious bent it can also help with atherosclerosis and high blood pressure. Studies show that Yaro T can reduce digestive spasms and IBS. Additional studies have also shown the flavonoids and alkaloids in Yaro can help with all of these other symptoms as well. Yaro T can help reduce corticosterone, which is one of those hormones that increases with stress. One study showed that the daily usage of Yaro helped promote mental and physical activity to combat depression. Research also shows that Yaro can have a similar effect to Valium aka Diazepam, which is often used for stress, sleep and anxiety. Studies have even shown that Yaro can help with various brain related problems. In particular there's promising research that shows how Yaro can help with cognitive results in people with multiple sclerosis. Yaro can help a wide gamut of inflammation problems, including liver problems, skin infections and skin aging, chronic inflammation and mild pain issues. Yaro T is an amphoretic herb, which means that basically it's really good at normalizing your body system. And this means that it can help with all sorts of nasty problems that women have to deal with like PMS and all of these problems as well. Though there is some research saying you can't use it earlier in pregnancy, because it can encourage problems like miscarriage. Yaro T is also a diaphoretic herb, which means it can help you sweat. And this can be especially great to help you beat those fevers. Yaro. Yaro. It's Yaro. Why do I keep wanting to say Yaro? Yaro. While there isn't much direct research, Yaro's properties are backed by numerous professionals saying it can help with colds, hay fever and various respiratory issues. Yaro is also a natural decongestant, so you don't need a ton of research to see why it helps here. Yaro does have research showing how it can help with parasitic infections like malaria and leishmaniasis, as well as other infections like tonsil inflammation, thrush, strep, candida and more. Speaking of more benefits, these ones don't have direct research as of yet, though they do have anecdotal and herbal professionals claiming they work. So who knows? Yaro can help you with any one of these benefits too. Yaro is great for a lot of things, but there's a few things that it can give some people problems with. First off, being another member of the pesky ragweed family, it can give some people allergic reaction problems. And some people have found that it can irritate their skin when used topically. Supposedly, this isn't as much of a problem when using the tea, but a lot of people will make decoctions that they'll actually put on the skin with the tea. An excess use of Yaro tea could possibly cause blurry vision, dry mouth, fatigue and heart palpitations. But this has only been reported by somebody who had five or more cups of the tea a day, which is quite excessive. Now it's also suggested that you avoid Yaro tea if you're taking blood thinners, or you're within two weeks before or after having surgery. Making Yaro tea is very simple, much like making any other herbal tea. You can use one or two teaspoons in a cup of boiling water and leave it for six to ten minutes depending on how strong you want it. If you want to learn about another great tea, then watch this video right here next. Till next time, be kind, take care of each other and enjoy your tea. Yaro. Yaro? Yaro. Which one do you like?