It shows that to have theCUBE coverage makes the show buzz, it creates excitement. More importantly, it creates great content, great digital assets that can be shared instantaneously to the world. From Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering big data, New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. Hey, welcome back everyone. Live in New York, it's theCUBE coverage day three with three days of wall-to-wall coverage, a big data NYC in conjunction with Strata Data right around the corner, a separate event than ours we've been covering this our eighth year. We're here expanding on our statement we just had with Matt from Dell EMC on, you know, really on the front lines consultant. We got Jason from Blue Data and Casey from Blue Talent, two separate companies but the blue in the name, Team Blue and of course Matt from Dell EMC. Guys, welcome back to theCUBE and let's talk about partnerships. I know you guys have a partnership, Dell EMC leads the front lines obviously with the customer base. You guys come in with the secret sauce to help that solution which I want to get to in a minute but the big theme here this week is partnerships. And before we get into the relationship that you guys have, I want you to talk about the changes in the ecosystem because we're seeing a couple key things. Open Source One in its winning continues to grow but the Linux Foundation pointed out at the Open Source Summit we covered that exponential growth is going to be an open source software you're going to see from 64 lines of code to billions next 10 years. So more onboarding, so clear development path. Ecosystems have worked. Now they're coming into the enterprise with suppliers whether it's consultants, front end or full stack developers coming together. How do you see ecosystems playing in both the supplier side and also the customer side? So we see from the supplier side and from the customer side as well and it kind of drives both of those conversations together is that you had the early days of I don't want vendor lock in. I want to have a disparate virtual corner copia of tools in the marketplace and then they were each individual shop was trying to develop those and implement those on their own. Then what you're now seeing is that companies still want that diversity in the tools that they utilize and that they work with but they don't want that complication of having to deliver all those tools themselves. So they're looking more for partners that can actually bring an ecosystem to the table where it's a loose coupling of events but that one person actually has the forefront and has the customer's best interest in mind and actually be able to drive through those pieces and that's what we see from a partnership why we really driving towards partnerships because we can be a point solution and we can solve a lot of pieces but by bringing us as a part of an ecosystem and with a partner that can actually help deliver the customer and business value to the customer that's where we're starting to see the traction and the movement and the wins for us as an organization. Blue data you guys have had very big assesses big data as a service, Docker containers. This is the program programmers Nirvana infrastructure as code that's the DevOps ethos that's going mainstream. Your thoughts on partnering because you can't do it alone. Yeah, I mean for speaking of DevOps and we see our software platform provides a solution for bringing a DevOps approach to data science and big data analytics. It's much more streamlined approach, elastic and agile approach to big data analytics and data science but to your point we're partnered with Dell EMC because they bring together an entire solution that delivers an elastic platform for secure multi-tenant environments for data science teams and analyst teams for a variety of different open source tool sets. So there is a large ecosystem of open source tools out there from Hadoop to Spark to Kafka to a variety of different data science and machine learning and deep learning tool sets out there. We provide through our platform the ability to dockerize all of those environments make them available through self service to the data science community so they can get up and running quickly and start building their models and running their algorithms and for us it's on any infrastructure. So we work closely with Dell EMC to run it on Isilon and their infrastructure, Dell powered servers but also you can run it in a hybrid cloud architecture so you can run it on Azure and now GCP and AWS. So this is the agility piece for the developer to get all that agility and security. Dell EMC is all the infrastructure side. So you've got the partners together. Matt, pull this together. The customer doesn't want, they want a single pane of glass or however you want to look at it. They don't want to deal with the nuances. You guys got to bring it all together but they want it to work. Now the theme here at the big data in New York is integration is everything, right? So if it doesn't integrate, the plumbing's not working. How important is it for the customer to have this smooth, seamless experience? It's critical for them to, they have to be able to believe that it's going to be a seamless experience and these are just two partners in the ecosystem. When we talk to enterprise customers they have other vendors. They have half a dozen or a dozen other vendors solving big data problems, right? The vendors, the analytic tools, on and on and on. And when they choose a partner like us they want to see that we are bringing other partners to the table that are going to complement or enhance capabilities that they have. But they want to see two key things and we need to see the same things as well when we look at partnerships. We want to see APIs. We want to see open APIs that are well documented so that we know these tools can play with each other. And two, these have to be organizations we can work with.  They get a track record too. You're pretty solid.  So a lot of customers are scared. Now it's all this FUD and new technology. It's hard to squint through what the BS is in an ecosystem. So how do you do ecosystems right in this new market? Because like you said, it's not the APIs that's kind of technical but like philosophy wise, you can't do the Barney deals. You had Pat Gelsinger standing up on stage at VMworld basically flew down a stair and in front of all the customers of VMworld's customers said we're not doing a Barney deal now. He didn't say Barney deals. That's our old term. He said it's not an optical deal we're doing with VMware. We got your back. He didn't say that, but that's my interpretation. That's what he basically said. The CEO of AWS said that. That's a partner. Some deals are, yeah we got a deal on paper. What's the difference?  Yeah, it's not trivial. It's not an easy thing. It takes an executive at that level. It takes a couple of executives coming together. From the top, obviously. Committing, it's not just money. It's reputation, right? If you're at that level, it's about reputation which then trickles down to the company's reputation. And so within the ecosystem, we want to sort of crawl, walk, run. Let's do some projects together. So you're saying reputation in communities is number one thing? I think so. Yeah, people are not going to go, so you'll always have the bleeding. Someone's going to go play with a tool. They're going to see if it works. Our reputation is everything. Yeah. If it fails, they're going to tell, what is it saying? If something bad happens, you tell 12 people. All right, so give them a compliment. What's Blue Talent do great for you guys? Explain their talent and the ecosystem. So Blue Talent's talent and the ecosystem, other than being just great people. We love Keri. I'll get you to say something bad about them soon. Give them the compliment first. They have simplified the complexity of doing security, policy, and role-based security for big data. So regardless of where your data lives, regardless of it's Hadoop, Spark, Flink, Mongo, AWS, you define a policy once. And so if I'm in front of the Chief Governance Officer, my infrastructure doesn't have a value prop to them, but theirs does, right? The legal team, when we have to do proposals, this is what gets us through the legal and compliance for GDPR, and it's that centralized control that is so critical to the capabilities that we provide from big data. If you sprawl your data everywhere, we know data sprawls everywhere. So you can rely on them, these guys. Absolutely. All right, Blue Data, give them a compliment. What do they fit? So they have solved the problem of deploying containers, big data environments, in any cloud. And the notion of ephemeral clusters for big data workloads is actually really, really hard to solve. We've seen a lot of organizations attempt to do this. We see frameworks out there, like Kubernetes, that people are trying to build on. These guys have fixed it. We have gone through the most rigorous security audits at the biggest banks in the world, and they have signed off because of the network segmentation and the data segmentation. It just works. I feel like I'm running a presidential debate. Now you got to say something nice about it.  I mean, you guys are not small, but you're not massive either, right? We're not small, but we're not massive, right? So we're probably around 40 resources global. And so from our perspective, It's a great deal working with a big gorilla in EM Dell EMC. They got a lot of market share, big muscle. Exactly. And so for us, we talked about earlier, right? The big thing for us is ecosystem functions. We do what we do really well, right? We build software that does control unified data access across multiple platforms, as well as multiple distributions, whether it be private cloud on-prem or public cloud. And for us, again, it's great that we have the software. It's great that we can do those things, but if we can't actually help customers use that software to deliver value, it's useless. Do you guys go to market together?  We go to market together. So we actually, we work, a lot of our team in enablement is not enabling our customers. It is enabling Dell EMC on the use of our software and how to do that. So we actually work with Dell EMC to train and work and to...  Certification involved, close relationship, you're not mailing the word. And then we're also involved at the customer side as well. So it's not like we go, okay, great, now it's sold and we throw up our hands and walk away. Well, they're counting on you for that specific piece. They're counting on us for those specific pieces, but we're also working with Dell EMC so that we can get that breadth and that reach so that they can actually go confident to their customers and understand where we fit and when we don't fit. We're not everything to everybody, right? And so they have to understand those pieces to be able to know when that works right and how the best practices are. And so again, we're 40 people, they're, I forget, there were 80,000 at one point, maybe even more than that, but even in the services arm there's several thousands of people in the services. This is the whole point about ecosystems you're getting at. Your point at the critical thing. You've got a big piece of the puzzle, it's not just they're bundling you in. You're an active part of that and it's an integration world. So he needs to rely on you to integrate with his systems and we have to integrate with the other parts of the ecosystem too, right? So it really is a three way, it's a three way integration on this perspective where they do what they do really well. We do what we do and they're complimentary to each other but without the services and the glue from Dell EMC. So you bring Dell EMC into deals too? We do, so we bring Dell EMC into deals and Dell EMC sells us through a reseller agreement with them so we actually help jointly either bring them to a deal that we've already found and we'll bring services to them or we'll actually go out and do joint development of customers, right? So we actually come out and help with the sales process and the cycles to actually understand is there a fit or is there not a fit? So it's not a one size fit all and it's not just a yes, we've got something on paper that we can sell you and we'll sell you every once in a while. It really is a way to develop an ecosystem to deliver value to the customer. Okay, let's talk about the customer mindset real quick. Are they, how far along are them? I don't really know much because I really are starting a probe in this area. How savvy are they to the partnership level?  I mean, are they drilling asking tough questions or are you kind of getting them educated along the way? Are they savvy about it? I mean, I've been doing partner, outsourcing but remember the enterprise had a generation of down to the bone cutting, outsource everything, good solidation and then, you know, go back around 2010, the uplift on reinvestment hit. So we're kind of in this renaissance right now. So thoughts? The partnership is actually the secret sauce as part of our sales cycle. When we talk about big data outcomes and enabling self-service, customers assume, oh, okay, you guys built some software, you've got some hardware and then when we double click into how we make this capable, we say, oh, well we partner with a blue talent and a blue data and there's other and they, wait a minute, that's not your software? No, no, we didn't build that. We have scoured the market and we found partners that we work with and we trust and all of a sudden, you can see their sort of shoulders relax and they realize that we're not just there to sell them more kit, we're there to actually help them solve their problems and it is a game changer because they deal with vendors every day. Software vendor acts, software vendor why, hardware vendor Z and so to have a company that they have good relationships with already, bring more capabilities to them, the guard comes down and they say, okay, let's talk about how we can make this work. All right, so let's get into the meat of the partnership which I want to get to because I think that's fundamental. Thanks for sharing the perspective on the community piece. We're big on it, we've been doing a lot, we're a community brand ourselves, we're not a closed garden, we're not about, restricting and censoring people at events, that's not what we're about. So you guys know that, so appreciate your comment on the community there. The Elastic Data Platform, you guys are talking about, it's a partnership deal. You provide an epic software, you guys are providing some great security in there. What is it about, what's the benefit? So it's, you're leading the product, take a minute to explain the product and then the roles. Yeah, so the Elastic Data Platform is a capability, set of capabilities that is meant to help our enterprise customers get to that next level of self-service, data science as a service and do that on any cloud with any tools in a secured and controlled manner. That's what Elastic Data Platform is and it's meant to plug into the customer's existing investments and their existing tools and augment that and through our services arm, we tie these technologies together using their open APIs. That's why that's so critical for us and we bring that value back to our customers. And you guys are providing the epic software. Yeah. So what is epic software? I mean, I love epic software, that's an epic, I hope it's not an epic fail. It's an epic name. So epic name, but epic. Elastic Private Instant Clusters is actually an acronym for this stands for. Great acronym. That is what it provides for our customers. So say it again, Epic stands for. Elastic Private Instant Clusters. So it can run in a private cloud environment on your on-prem infrastructure, but as I said before, it can run in a hybrid architecture on the public cloud as well. But yeah, I mean, we're working closely with the Dell EMC team, they're an investor. We work closely with their services organization, with their server organization, with the storage organization, but they really are the glue that brings it all together from services to software to hardware and provides the complete solution to the customers. So, you know, as I think Matt said. Multi-tenancies is a huge deal. Multi-tenancies is a huge deal. Absolutely, yeah. So the ability to have logical isolation between each of those different tenants for different data science teams, different analyst teams. And that's particularly, you know, at large financial services organizations like Barclays who spoke yesterday, Matt alluded to earlier. And they talked about the need to support a variety of different business units who each have their own unique use cases, whether it's batch processing with Hadoop or real-time streaming and fast data with Spark, Kafka, and NoSQL database, or whether it's deep learning and machine learning. Each of those different tenants has different needs. And so you can spin up containers using our solution for each of those tenants. It's been a big theme this week too, just so many little things with this one and relates to this one, is the elastic nature of how people want to manage the provisioning of more resource. So here's what we see. They're using collective intelligence, data, hey, they're data science guys, they figured it out. Whatever the usage is, they can do a virtual layer, if you will, and then based upon the usage, they can then double down. So let the users drive, that's real collaborative, that seems to be a big theme, so this helps there. The other theme has been this centralized, this is the GDPR hanging over one's head, but even though that's more of a threat and it's a gun to the head, it's the hammer or the guillotine, however you look at it, there's more of enablement around central spaces. It's not just the threat of that, it's other things that are benefiting. More than just the threat of the GDPR and being compliant from those perspectives, right? The other proportion of this is you want to do, you do want to provide self-service. So the key to self-service is that's great, I can create an environment, but if it takes me a long time to get data to that environment, to actually be able to utilize it or protect the data that's in that environment by having to rewrite policies from a different place, then you don't get the benefit, right? The acceleration of the self-service. So having centralized policies with distributed enforcements gives you that elastic ability, right? Again, we can deploy the central engines, again on-premises, but you can protect data that's in the cloud or protect data that's in a private cloud. So as companies move data for the different workloads, we can put the same protections with them and it goes immediately with them. So you don't have to manage it in multiple places. It's not like, oh, did I remember to put that rule over in this system? Oh, no I didn't. And guess what just happened to me? You know, I did get smacked with the big fine because I didn't, well, as well as the compliant. So compliance. How about audit, too?  Yeah, so audit's a great portion of that, right? And we do audit for a couple of reasons. One is to make sure that you are compliant, but two is to make sure you actually have the right policies to find. Are people accessing the data the way you expect them to access that data? So that's another big portion of us from what we do from an audit perspective is that data usage lineage and we actually tell you what the customer, what that user was trying to do. So if a customer was trying to access data, you see a large group trying to access a certain set of data, but they're being denied access to it, now you can look and say, dude, is that truly correct? You know, dude, I want them not to be... Equifax, that thing was being fished out for months and months and months. Not just for. That thing's been fished over 10 times. In fact, state-sponsored actors were franchises of that organization. So if they were in the VPN. So this is where the issues are. Okay, let's just say that happened again. You would have flagged it. We flagged it. You would have seen the pattern access and said, okay, a lot of people are cleaning us out. Yep, what's happening, right? So you get to see that usage, the lineage of the usage of the data, right? So you get to see that pattern as well. Not only who's trying to access it, right? Because protecting the perimeters, as we all know, right, is no longer viable. So we actually get to watch the usage of the, that usage pattern. So you can detect an anomaly in that type of system as well as, and you can quickly change policies to shut down that gap. And then watch, just see what happens. See who's continuing to try to hit it. Well, it's been a great conversation. I love that you guys are on, and great to see the elastic data platform come together through partnerships. Again, as you know, we're really passionate about highlighting and understanding more of the community dynamic as it becomes more than just socialization. It's a business model for the enterprise as it was in open source. We'll be covering that.  Share something that someone might not know what's going on in the industry that you want to point out that has an observation, an anecdote that hasn't been covered, hasn't been surfaced. It could be a haymaker. It could be something anecdotal, personal observation. In the big data world, in big data NYC this week or beyond, what should people know about that? May or may not be covered out there that's happening that they should know about. Well, I think this was, people pretty much should know about this one, right? It was four or five years ago, Hadoop was going to replace everything in the world. And two, three years ago, the RDBMS's groups were like, Hadoop will never make it out of the science fair project. We're in a world now where that's no longer true. It's somewhere in between, right? Hadoop is going to remain and they're going to be continued and the RDBMSs are also going to continue. So you need to look at ecosystems that can actually allow you to cover both sides of that coin, which we're talking about here, is those types of tools are going to continue together forward. And so you have to look at your entire ecosystem and move away from siloed functions to how you actually look at an entire data protection and data usage environment. Matt, I would say that the technology adoption in the enterprise is outstripping the organization's ability to keep up with it. So as we deploy new technologies, tools, and techniques to do all sorts of really amazing things, we see the organization lagging in its ability to keep up. And so policies and procedures, operating models, whatever you want to call that, you can put it under the data governance umbrella, I suppose. If those don't keep up, you're going to end up with just an organization that is mismatched with the technology that is put into place and ultimately you could end up in a massive compliance problem. Now that's worst case, but even then best case, you're going to have really inefficient use of your resources. My favorite question to ask organizations is let's say you could put a timer on one of these data science sandboxes. So what happens when the timer goes off and the data scientist is not done? And you've got a line of people waiting for resources. What do you do? What is, how does the organization respond to that? It's a really simple question, but the answer is going to be very nuanced. So if that's the policy, that's the operating model stuff that we're talking about that we've got to think about when we enable self-service and security, those things have to come hand in hand. That's the operational thinking that's come through. Okay, Jason. I think for us, I mean this has been happening for some time now, but I think there still is this notion that the traditional way to deploy Hadoop and other big data workloads on-prem is bare metal and that's the way it's always been done. Or you can write it in the cloud. But I think what we're seeing now, what we've seen evolve over the past couple of years is you can run your on-prem workloads using Docker containers in a containerized environment. And you can have this cloud-like experience on-prem, but you can also provide the ability to be able to move those workloads, whether they're on-prem or in the cloud. So you can have this hybrid approach and multi-cloud approach. So I think that's fundamentally changing. It's a new dynamic, a new paradigm for big data, either on-prem or in the cloud, that it doesn't have to be on bare metal anymore. And we get the same, we've been able to get the same performance. People want on-prem, that's where the action is. And cloud, no doubt, but right now it's a transition. Hybrid cloud's definitely going to be there. I guess my observation is the tool shed problem.  Or buy a hammer that wants to turn into a lawn mower because the vendor changed, pivoted. You got to be careful what you buy, the tools. So don't think like a tool, think like a platform. And I think having a platform mentality, understanding the system, or operating environment as you were getting to, I think really is a fundamental exercise that most decision makers think about. Because again, your relationship with elastic data platform proves that this operating environment's evolving, it's not about the tool. The tool has to be enabled, and if the tool is enabled into the platform, it should have a data model that falls into place, no one should have to think about it. You have the compliance, you've got the Docker containers. So don't buy too many tools. If you do, make sure they're clean and it's going to clean tool shed. You got a lawn mower, I guess, that's a platform. Bad analogy. But I think tools has been the rage in this market. And now I think platforming it is something that we're seeing more of. So guys, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Elastic data platform by Dell EMC with the Epic platform from Blue Data and Blue Talent providing the data governance and compliance, great stuff on the CDPR. Blue Talent, you guys got a bright future. Congratulations. Thank you. More CUBE coverage after this short break. Live from New York. It's theCUBE.


Welcome back to School of Calesanics. There is Q&A number... I've started I don't actually know? I think it's thirteen or twelve. Either way, this is probably the most awkward because somebody has come between me and Jaco. And it's also between us to dilute our bromance a little bit. So I think welcome to Team Larni. Thank you. We're going to kick off this a bit of a different Q&A because we're not actually going to give you a chance to ask any questions this week. o'i gwaith pan hynny'n gwaith, oherwydd bod yn gweld yn rhoi drwy gael Gwysig Rydym yw'r mynd i'ch gwrs ac mae gen一 mor hynny'n gwaith sydd yn hynny'n gwaith sydd yn llwyddoedd sydd gynllun oherwydd y gallwn yn gyhoesio'r lleol ymlaen nhw gynnig i chi gyd-drygiad ac hynny pan gwybod eu bod nhw'n gwybod cWaitiau hynna yn cael eu hwnnw. Dwi'n rai. Yr fain yn gweithio. Mae'r gwaith yn gwneud adreffれ. Mae'na fyrdech chi gweithio'r cyfnod.... Mae fyrdd i'n gw walith yn unig. Arweithio'r cegu ymwneud. Roeddwch. Roeddwn i Dyna Llywyddweithiaol. Mae ffyrdd. Roeddwn i sefydlu. Mae'r cyfrifyr oaf i'r lle. A ast Gallwch chi dwi'n gyfrifoeddio Bryrddtor. Roeddwn i mynd i Llywodraeth. Roeddwn i Llywodraeth. Ryd yn y Llywodraeth fyddai. Roeddwn i. Roeddwn i. Byddwn heddiw y cwyddoedd fel gweld a hefyd yn ystod y sportio. Yn gyfnod hyn yn amlwn, hwachau, hwchgynneid ar gyfer triathlwns a taltyddol ac yn cyfeidio'r cyflog sydd fel Chymwy Ynigwyr a'i weld yn cael ei ffwdd. Fyddo y gallwn ni oherwydd, ac rydych chi wedi gweld y cyflog ar gyfer hyn. Ond wedi gweld yn ganwg y gallwn, rai yna. Rwyf wedi gweld yn cyflog ar gyfer triathlwns, a arweud yn y Llywodraeth Rhyf, also maybe like county level, I never like did national level, and then did velodrome cycling and I really enjoyed that but um, yeah one day my dad said why don't you try kayaking because both my parents were both represented, Great Britain and Australia for marathon kayaking. I actually hated the sport to begin with. I tried all these things and I just kept trying stuff until i found one that I was really really good at. What do you do? The people that do kayaking do it because they can't do anything else. No, my parents did it inside and they gave it a go, however but I actually really enjoyed it. When I tried and I was 6 I was like, no I can't do this. I made it on the Australian team quite quickly so I got to travel the world, I was like I'm onto something here but this is quite cool. This is awesome, I get to go to Europe. How old were you at that stage? I was first represented Australia when I was 16. Mae'r wych, dwi'n dyl ni, dwi wedi cael sy'n ddwyfio. Felly rydym, y syniadau rydym sy'n eu tarlo i'r busau ar gyfer C1, y mae'r cysgrif yw'r cychwyn. Mae'r ysgrif i'r busau ar gyfer C1, mae'r cychwyn, yw rhai o'r cychwyn, ac mae'r cychwyn o'r cychwyn o'r cychwyn o'r cychwyn o'r cychwyn. Na'n i, nawr, maen nhw wrth i unrhyw sy'n ad gallu hwn o'r gychwyn. Rwyfwn ni'n ffordd saeth ardod mae fel y maelad yn un am y bobl. Myllwch willon wahanol a gwasanaeth. Mae'n tynnu maenpy ei maelad arall. Mae o jei bod wahanol o'r cyfrif o'r cyfrifol. Mwyn cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol. Ie, iddyn ni'n cyfrifol o'r cyfrifolio. Felly byr yw cwrs, maen nhw. Cymra o'r cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol. Mae'n cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol. Mae'n cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol o'r cyfrifol. Na rwy'n gweithio, dwi'n mynd i gyda'r flynyddiadau! Dysgu'n gweithio'n cyffredin! Yn y gallwn gwneud hyn ar ddiogel, a dwy'n ddim cyngorol hynny… Mae'r fawr cyndraed, mae'r ymblifedwyr yn yeg. Rwy'n ddim yn cael ei bwysig. Dwi'n ddim yn gweithi'r Ysgwr, boeol yn Ysgwr a'r prydda'rnydd, ac rwy'n gweithio ran symboliaethol. Gweithiau? Rwy'n ddiogel yr wrthdoedd Bryddoedd! Chely toddler is British, I moved to Australia two months from the time I was born they moved Oh wow When you moved back to the UK? Yeah On your own or with your parents? No on my own I decided, on my own, when I was 18, I was like, well don't have anything that's tying me down in Australia I'd finished school and I didn't want to go to uni at that stage So I was like, right, I'm going to go to Europe Is that because the opportunities to actually be pro in kayaking way greater? Felly, mae'r ffordd wedi ei bod yn gweithio'r unionwi ac mae'r ffordd ym hattenu o Gwyrdegon. yn gyntaf. Rwy'n golygu. Felly ddod eich bod gwybod ar gyfer. Rwy'n cael cyflawni'r g ligyddion. Felly roedd wedi bod hi'n bod yn gweithio. Mae hyn yn gorfod yn hydrraed o fizio o'r sgwmeth, golygaer, y byddwyd yna ar gyfer. Dwi wedyn beth yna am ymwneud? Hyda i chi amser gyda 6 ymwneud y Llyfrgell yn y Llyfrgell ac yn ymwneud, oherwydd dyna y dyma'n gweithio. A dyna ymwneud. Felly eraill dyna. Ac byddwn i, er fyddwn i'n gynhyrchu i Llyfrgell, fe wneud f更esio leesetig a'r gweithio Leesedau. Maen nhw wedi ymddangos i'r Fyfyrdd Cymru iwerthwyr i fel i Maen nhw gwneud yw leesedig. Fy fyddwch i'n gweithio llys i'r gweithio lle i'n amser hwnnw i'r lle, Mae'r bwrth bod yn ymlaen i Gweithio Athletaeth. Ond y Llywodraeth Cymru yn 2016. Rwyfwn i'r cyffredinol, ac yna'r gwaith rhai'r rhaglennwys yng Nghwngir Ymlaen, hwnnw'n ei ddweud allwn i'r rhwy oedd ymlaen i Gweithio. Byddai'n gwneud ymlaen i gŵr, a'r cyffredinol yn cael ei wneud o'r ddweud. Rydw i'r gweithio ymlaen i'r rhodoedd ac yn ddwy'n rhaen i'r gweithio ar y cwysig. I think when you've invested so much time and energy on something the highs and lows you went through.... is just unreal. Yeah definitely. So, I actually just missed out on London 2012 and unfortunately, yeahs was very very close to going and that didn't happen so I was pretty devastated once when that happened and I had to reassess whether I wanted to continue. How old were you then? I would have been, what, 24, yeah, 23, 24, yeah, so I decided no, I was going to keep on going and give it another shot, and in 2015 you have your qualifiers, so the year before the Olympics you qualify, and I was racing in the K2, which is a doubles event, and you have to, the K2 is quite a hard event to qualify, because you've got to get top six, but European, we're in the European continent, so it's the hardest continent to qualify, so you have to get top six, but within that top six there has to be maybe someone from Australia, Africa or... Okay, yeah. But there's only one slot on the British team where one boat goes, so if you're not the number one boat, it's not like three or four people get to go with athletics or whatever, it's literally number one. Yeah, so you can, yeah. So we got eighth, and so we were like, oh, we've missed it, but there was girls, so it works, it's really complicated, but there's count back spots, so if people are dubbing up in events, then those spots actually end up getting counted back, so it worked out that we finished that weekend and we got told, you know, you guys have qualified that boat. Not necessarily us, like we might not go in that boat, we still have to keep on performing. You made the boat qualified. That boat got qualified, and then it all got changed around and things got like within, yeah, not in our program, but like internationally, and it ended up that we didn't have those spots anymore, so from getting told that there was a good chance that if you kept training that boat and you won the selections the next year, you could go to the Olympics. So that was pretty devastating. It went through loads of court appeals and everything, and we found out we then had a second time to try and qualify in May, and there's only one spot there, you have to win it, and we got third, so we were like, that's it, I'm not going to the Olympics anymore. And then the next weekend there was a World Cup and some was like, no, no, some people have been, like, some countries have been done for drugs, you guys have got the next spot. So I was like, I've just had this weekend where you're not going to the Olympics anymore. You've just had a bender for a week. You don't know why I've just drunk. So I was like, oh, what? Amazing, but then you've just got people saying these things. There's no clarity or anything. So then that went all through another court process, and then basically we found out 12 days before the Olympics that we were going. And you didn't think you were? We didn't know we were going, so this whole time, every day you come to training, oh, it might happen next date and that's not happening anymore. So you're training just on the off chance that you're hopeful something might, which is tough in terms of motivation. It was hard, mentally, I think I'm quite mentally strong, and it definitely challenged me. Does everybody else know where they're going? The rest of the team is packing bags. Yeah, there's four other girls that are already qualified in the K4, and there's my K2 partner at the time, and we're just turning up to training every day. We don't train with those other girls, they're focusing on their boats, so it's just us two. And yeah, that was hard, because you'd have one day when I was down and she was up and then the opposite. So you have to try and pick each other up at the same time. To get the call to say we were going was incredible. It was such an amazing experience to go, but when we got there, we didn't have the best results that we could have got. Less than ideal preparation. It's such a shame because you think when you sit on that start line for an olympics, you never think you're not going to be in the best shape possible. We did everything we could, we couldn't have done any more, but I think mentally and physically it just drained us. I think it's really interesting because we do some work in swimming and there's another guy that we do some work with that he won't mind me talking about with James Curtin, and his story is similar. People will sit at home and they'll watch the Olympics and they'll see these guys, you're in a prime of your life. Why did you not perform when you said there's so much stuff which the media don't report? There's so much money that goes into the sports. People don't know the sort of stuff you've been through, but a lot of the stuff that we do from a sports performance perspective is just trying to make that journey as smooth as possible. We don't want any bumps in a row, we don't want any turbulence. So for you being are we going, we're not going, we are going, we're not going, right, you're going, flipping all of a sudden like pack your bags, get on the plane and now go and perform like this. So there's a lot to do against people that have been in a field where there might be other people that have had problems, but there might be a lot of people that have had great preparation because they're not a level playing field. But then like even, you didn't even mention, but like picking up injuries and things on the way, like you can be, I could probably count on one hand the number, I played over 300 games of rugby and I could count on one hand the number that I'd say I was 100% fit. Like you're always carrying things that, and sometimes it's just unlucky if it happens to be the week before you're going to the Olympics. So from that whole experience, like what do you think that, what have you taken away from it in terms of like how it's changed you, how you now see like and reflect on your career and what happens next. Was it left any sort of lasting feelings or anything? No, I think like I've got a never give up attitude I think and that was really important to me. I don't want to have any regrets. So I wanted to always make sure that I did everything and I left everything on the line. And I think straight after the Olympics it was really difficult to come to terms with it because I was like, I should be really excited. I'm really happy that I've just gone to Olympic Games and on the other hand I've just not done the performance I wanted to do. So that was really hard to then not have a negative experience in my mind of the Olympic Games. But now I'm fine with it, I've come to terms, I work so hard to get to that point and I deserve to go. I know I deserve to go to that Olympic Games. So when I look back I don't necessarily just look at the Olympics, I look at the pathway to that and what I put in every year to get to that point. I think that's awesome because being an Olympian is an incredible privilege and there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. But the sorts of things that we can take out from people that are watching is that process of actually just staying in the game and you just kept on working. And we have a phrase in sport and it gets bounced around quite a lot now, we can control the controllables. In that situation there was so much that was out of your control so all you had to do, all you could do was just keep training. And there would have been stuff over the years that would lead into that.  And whether that's bring that into calisthenics, if you're trying to do something that's your first impossible, like going to the Olympics when you were 16 you'd be going, I don't know, I don't think I'm going to go. It's a big deal, I've got to do this, I've got to pass this event. But you stay in the game, you kept on working and you achieved a dream.  That's cool. There'll be some stuff that you look back on and you go, okay. But I don't know how many people go to the Olympics. The percentage of Olympians of all time who don't look back on it and go, I'm not fully happy with how that went. Unless you're going to break a world record and win a gold medal. Even then, I've trained athletes, there's one girl who went to the Paralympics, broke a world record by two seconds and came second.  But she's still like, it was two seconds better than she'd ever been before. So I think it's, I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is that it's such a complex thing. But the consistent thing that we see from people is that you've just got to work for it and you've got to stay in it and you never know where it might go. And like with the journey that we go through in Calais, a lot of the time we're working towards doing something that feels impossible and there's a lot of controllables that are in your control but there's some that are outside of them and it's a case of just getting happy with those and just working with what you've got being complacent. No, what's the word I'm looking for? Not complacent, like, you know when you're happy? Is it a seaward? Is it a seaward? It was a seaward, yeah. After the Olympics, fast forward a year, and you focus on Kayak, marathon, yeah? Won the world championship? I do, yes. Tic? World champ. But it was during that point as well when you started to focus on that and when you started to get introduced, or you met up with Tim, and I let Tim tell the story a little bit, but I just remember Tim ringing me up and going, you know, I've met Lani, she's been massive. I don't know. I didn't say that. You were talking about Lani like that. Like she's way bigger than us. Yeah, so we have a mutual friendry that I've known for a long time called Emma, who was working as a performance lifestyle adviser, and she got in touch with me and said that there was one of her athletes, and she said you didn't have a name to start off with because of this confidentiality thing, so I was talking about an anonymous person. So we had a conversation about Lani, and she was in Nottingham wanting to transition out of the sport into working in health fitness PT, and did I know anybody that might be able to sort of guide her? So I was like, oh yeah, we'll have a conversation. I always like to meet up with athletes because it's just nice people. So I thought we could have a coffee at least. And then we just met up, and then we've obviously got the Paralympic style of stuff, but with Lani's background in kayaking, I said to David before, I went down, I guess she's going to be flipping strong, because the amount of gym work that these guys do is impressive. I've seen kayakers and worked with them before, and so do we go in the gym that first day or not? I can't remember. Yeah, I think I came and shadowed one of your sessions. Ah, that's right. Yeah, we're rich and some of the guys.  Jealous of those. I think I remember you even doing that. I rang David when I went to see the size of her bicep. It'd have been a nice way. Oh, OK, thanks. Yeah, I looked after these. I know. And just as part, and just to get into that in a little bit in terms of your journey and training and getting strong, I remember talking to you when you said, you know, you couldn't, when you first went to a kayak and everyone started training and everyone's doing pull-ups, and you couldn't even do one. And I think a lot of people will see you doing stuff now, and obviously you have built up that strength, but like how difficult was it at the start building up and how long have you been training to make some of the stuff that you're doing now almost seem easy. Just to put it in perspective for people. I've been in the gym for 10 years, so like when I first started in the gym, I remember that we were doing a circuit and we had to do pull-ups, and I was like, OK, fine, yeah. And I went to do one, and I couldn't even do one. I think it was 30 seconds on, whatever, and I was like, well, I can't even do one. That's a waste of 30 seconds, isn't it? I was like, could you just stand there and twiddle my thumbs? I was like, it's a bicep girl instead. I remember going home and calling my mum and being like, I can't even do a chin-up. She's like, it's fine. Don't worry, you'll get it. And then, yeah, literally because in the environment, I was training in the club system then. So I was like, right, I've just got to keep on going and just kept on going at it. Yeah. So how many gym sessions will you do in a week? So it varies. So in the winter, we'll do a lot more land-based training. So we could do up to five gyms a week and then you'll do either swimming or running and then sometimes some paddles as well. And when you've been doing that for 10 years, you're going to get strong. Yeah. And how long at that time were you sort of under the tutelage of a full-time SNC coach? SNC. About eight years. So it's a long time. So it's a structured programme and again, that's just a testament of, again, like you said before, having time in the game is what just builds the resources. Yeah, definitely. It's not easy. When I first got put in touch with the strength and conditioning coaches in Australia and I was still, I think I was under 23 or just last year juniors. And the only thing we did was technique. He was like, I don't want you to lift weights, I just want to work on your technique. And at first I was like, I just want to lift. But he was just ingrained it, ingrained it, ingrained it. And when I came over to the UK and started doing gym with another SNC coach, he was like, oh, that's great. You've got the technique down pat. And then now we can start to progress. But it's so important and I can't have my home how important it is to do focus on the technique to begin with, to prevent injury. But would you say that from when you started Calisthenics, because we've seen a change since we started working together from where you were doing stuff before, like obviously the outcome is slightly different and the cause, but I saw you in the gym last week, I think we did a session. And I was like, moving really well from when we first went in and like you're working on muscle ups and even just you've gone right back to the basics so you pull up and started to tidy that up and seeing like a bit more of a focus on the quality of the movement around that. Does that kind of link across with, is that now, do you see more importance in that? Or do you see that it was when you were doing, when you're working, when you were training in canoeing that that was just a, kind of in that squat environment just everyone was just getting in and just getting stuff done and it was actually so much precision about it? Yeah, no, like, I think when you're in that squat environment and you've got eight girls or how many girls it is, everyone's competing, even if they're not meant to be competing, you're always going to be competing. So, I think it's been really good this year and I have, you would focus on yourself but you'd always have, like for me in that, in my group of girls, I was always the smallest and I always didn't lift as much as them but it was power to weight so actually I was strong but it's so hard when you're seeing other people lift so much weight you're like, I can't lift that. So, no, I think definitely this year I've just focused on, on me and what is best for me and I haven't had the access to physios because I'm not on the programme anymore this year so I've been so, had to really be in tune with my body and make sure I did all the mobilisation that I could do and that I wasn't, just, I was focusing on the technique in the gym and yeah, I think incorporating calisthenics into my training this year has helped a lot because you focus so much on stability side of things and kayaking, you need that stability, otherwise you're in the water all the time. Which is not conducive to winning a world championship. No, not at all. And how have you found it then? Obviously, so you had that first meeting, that first conversation with Tim where you thought you were like, going to get some experience on SNC and PT because you're going to want to go into that and then actually got wangodd into this. Let's try and do some course of hanging off bars. How have you found it? No, I loved it. You smile into it obviously. And we're super excited to have you involved as one of our coaches. Thank you. Just how have you found that way of training and I guess you've come with that 10 years of building up the strength base and you get to do some cool stuff with it. Now, how has that been? Really good. I'd always seen on Instagram all these cool moves that people do. That looks really awesome. And I remember looking online and looking at Calisthenic stuff and there wasn't that much stuff and then I found you guys and I was like, oh, that's really cool. I think it was just when you guys were starting out at the beginning of 2016. You really were. And then I remember when I met up with you in January, I think it was.  And I was like, yeah. Okay, couldn't do it. I remember two of you and it was like, well, she pretty much did her flags this way. Yeah, like she's being humble now but when she first did a flag, she held it in that position with her feet off the ground. I remember saying during a day up there, it's not a million miles away. It did that a few more months and that would be in the locker. But it's just some of that and you just came with a good training background. And I think that again, I would just flip it into a take-home message. It's just, there's some things where I get frustrated with my calisthenics training. I'm not moving forward as quickly as I want. But getting strong and fitting that all together, it's been massively oversimplified in some cases by the fitness industry in that we think we can just constantly, it's just getting stronger. Yeah, you do, but it takes time. But especially in calisthenics, it's not the same as just lifting dumbbells week in, week out. We're asking ourselves to move in brand new ways to create tension in new ways. And especially like us, slightly older, we're not nine, 10 years old anymore. The system's got a little bit more stress in it and there's a bit more of a higher demand on us actually learning or high complexity of learning new skills. So just throwing it all in, it's not easy, but the thing that you've got to do again and goes back to what you said about the games experience before is just even though there's going to be plateaus and there's going to be difficult times, just keep training and mix it up into things that you enjoy. And I guess that's been something for you that you've had 10 years of gym training where kayak training for the gym from an SNC coach is probably not that exciting. It's quite boring. It's a lot of push and pull, right? A lot of push and pull. Push and pull, push and pull, and a bit more push and pull. So to come out from where you've been from an athletic perspective and then now actually come into calisthenics and go like, I want to learn some muscle up and you've now got that a little bit of a love for learning and love for movement back in as something which you can apply what you've done before. But then also like now you've got new things which you can't currently do.  You come in the gym and you go, I think I should be able to do that. Why can't I do a ring muscle up? Which you can now do. Yeah, it's just like the one thing I really like about calisthenics and it's similar with kayaking is they're both very technical. And for me in kayaking I had to be very good at my technique because I wasn't the strongest. So I couldn't rely on my strength in the water. I needed to make sure I was being as efficient as possible. And with calisthenics you can be as strong as possible if you're not using the right technique and going through those steps. You're not going to get to the end result. So that's what I really like about it as well. And it's so nice to be able to challenge yourself again working in the gym for 10 years. It does get a bit boring. And I just love the functional side of it as well because I've always said I never want to get to a stage where I can't lift my own body weight. And I think it's so important that everyone can do that because you never know when you're going to need to pull yourself out of something or whatever. And it might be the same for you, the same for my last question that when I came out of pro rugby it was a massive lack of motivation which I'd never struggled with before when there was no game at the weekend.  Yeah, definitely. Well, as I say, this year I've structured like I've been training at my canoe club in Nottingham, Nottingham, Kayak club. And we've, you know, I've structured my training how I want to. So I've got a coach down there, Norman and he'll plan our water sessions and we do our gym as a group we decide what we want to do. And you've got these sorted. So by adding calisthenics into my training this year I definitely think it's helped. Remember you asked me last week, do you think it's helped? And I was like, I do actually think it has because people think when you do body weight exercises oh it's just your body weight. It's not that hard. But there are ways of making it very difficult and when we had the conversation over there I was like do I do dumbbell bench press or do I do press ups on the rings? And it's like, well I'm using more stability I'm using my core more and locking on my glutes and everything by doing the ring press ups. And they're just as hard as if I was going to do try and get 12 reps out on a certain weight of dumbbells. So it's a really, I'm really loving it. I think it's great. So last question for me then. So from a calisthenics perspective what are you working towards? What are your goals? What's in the impossible lot? Yes. I want to be able to do a handstand and hold it for 30 seconds. 30 seconds. And make it comfortable. Just a nice, tidy up. And muscle up. Definitely like on the bar. On the bar. To feel I would do it all really. I don't want to stop. Like a flag definitely. But I think when I first started I was like oh I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to do this. And it almost can be overwhelming because you're like trying to work on everything but I think it's important just to focus on one or two and then once you've got that down pat move on. Sounds like Stevenson. Sounds like Tess. She's good. That's true. So that we're going to wrap it up I think. I hope this is obviously Lani and I hope you've enjoyed getting to know her a little bit better. We certainly have and we're really excited to be doing more stuff with Lani and you're going to see loads more coming out from her in terms of tutorials and we're going to try and do some stuff that's focused around a little bit some specific stuff for females as well which is a really cool little area for us to be looking at as well. Perfect. So if you're not already subscribed to our YouTube channel and you want to see some more of these beautiful people then you need to tick up there in that box. We've got our free beginners guide which is going to give you everything you need to get started in Calisthenics summer round days armpit and for last week's Q&A that's up there click that and have a watch and until next time. Class dismissed. She's good.


Hi, and how are you all today? The question says, find the coefficient of a raised to the power 5 and b raised to the power 7 in a minus 2b raised to the power 12. As, first of all, to find out the coefficient we need to convert this binomial expansion in its general term, we can write a minus 2b raised to the power 12 as a plus minus 2b the whole raised to the power 12. Right? Now, the general term, t r plus 1 can be written as 12cr a raised to the power 12 minus r and minus 2b raised to the power r. Right? Now, on putting 12 minus r equals to 5 because we need to find out the coefficient of a raised to the power 5 and and solving this linear equation, we have the value of r as 12 minus 5 that is equal to 7. Now, we have t r plus 1th term as 12c7 a raised to the power 5 minus 2 raised to the power 7 and b raised to the power 7. This can be split to the further. 12 factorial divided by 7 factorial multiplied by 5 factorial into minus 2 raised to the power 7 into a raised to the power 5, b raised to the power 7. Further, on solving it, we have 12 into 11, 10, 9, 8 into 7 factorial can be written as and divided by 7 factorial into 5 factorial can be written as 5 into 4 into 3 into 2 into 1. Further, minus 2 raised to the power 7 can be written as 128 and this is multiplied by a raised to the power 5 and b raised to the power 7. On solving it and simplifying, we have left with 11 into 9 into 8 into 128 into a raised to the power 5, b raised to the power 7 can be written as 101376 a raised to the power 5, b raised to the power 7. So, clearly we can see that coefficient of a raised to the power 5, b raised to the power 7 in the binomial expansion of a minus 2b raised to the power 12 is this whole term that is 101376. Right? So, this is our required answer to the second question. I hope you enjoyed this session. Do remember your general term. Take care.


Fires, riots, 9-11, 0-8, you know, the pandemic, oil spills, hurricanes cannot stop the the market. Transactions are going to happen every single day. This is what I believe. I'm sharing that with you for nothing.  Overthinking and overcomplicating things really holds a lot of people back, but you know on your point of you know this year and the job loss and this and that and the different things that have happened this year, man. If this year didn't prove to everyone in the universe that real estate is such a resilience industry, 80% of the same amount of closings were happening this year during the shutdown when you couldn't have human-to-human contact as it was last year. I mean and not only that, the amount of properties that were going under contract were still 80% on average across the country. I mean 80% of the same amount of deals when there's not even human-to-human contact and one of the most scariest moments we've seen in the past 100 years, nothing like fires, riots, 9-11, 0-8, you know, the pandemic, oil spills, hurricanes cannot stop the the market. Transactions are going to happen every single day regardless of what happens and if this year wasn't a testament to that then I don't know what was and if it doesn't give you the enthusiasm and the, you know, the excitement to be in this business, you know, moving forward and realize that okay, you know, it's not going to stop. You know, there's not a scarcity, right? There's no, there's no, if anybody walks into 2021 with a scarcity mindset, then you weren't paying attention to 2020. You know, this and when the economy opened back up, the market exploded and it's still exploding. 2021 is going to be an incredible year even if we see some kind of flattening out, let's just say, some kind of flattening out for some reason in terms of transactions, in terms of prices, that's still going to be, we're still, if you're out there doing what you need to do, right, whatever the market does has really nothing to do with you, right? It really has nothing to do with you, right? You're the only one that kind of dictates, there's the market and then there's your market, right? There's the entire market and then there's your business and your market because the industry is so large and we're literally not even a microscopic dot within this huge industry in terms of the size of volume and number of transactions, even in your local market, it's massive.  You know what I mean? Out of this massive, massive bucket of volume and transactions, you know, so even if that massive bucket reduces by 50%, 60, 70%, 80%, 80%, we're down 80% transactions of volume next year. That's not going to, it may, I may change up what I'm doing and have a different, you know, I may be saying different things to my clients and trying to help them through because that would be a devastating moment, but I would still close the same amount of properties. You know, this year's been crazy because March, no sales, normally sell 25 deals, no sales, right? Two deals, I did two deals. The hurricane and even after that, the market exploded and it looked like, okay, I'm going to have the best year ever. I'm on a roll to have the best year ever. Then the hurricane hits my area, no deals, absolutely none for three weeks, zero. Then I do a clip, a couple, a couple and I'm like, okay, it's late in the year, it's late in the year and maybe I'm not going to hit, have my best year ever. Now all of a sudden I'm looking at my clothes, my pinnings, everything going on and I'm like, wait a minute, I'm fixing to have a 1.1, 1.2. I've never hit 1.1. It's always been a million, you know, a million 50, a million 20, a million whatever, a million 60, never 1.1. This year, I'm definitely, I'm going to hit, I'm going to ring a bell and you know, whenever I hit the 1.1, because I think I'll hit it here in like a week or two and that's going to be the, the mark of my best year ever during all this crazy stuff with the momentum going into 2021. So absolutely, absolutely.


Roedd yn gwneud am y cyfnodd, mae'r cyffredinol yn ymddi'r llyfr yn y llyfr. Mae'n gwneud am mawr. Mae eich medigodau, ymddiadau, ymddiadau, ymddiadau... ...rydym yn unrhyw genedig geniolig. A llyfr yw'r llyfr yn unrhyw cerddol ac yn yr ymddiadau. Ond wedyn wedyn wedi bod yn gwneud ymddiadu ymddiadu... ...rydwyr ymddiadau a'r llyfr yma ar y cysyllt. Now what does that actually mean? Well triangulation has actually been a technique used in geometry and in quantity surveying for a long time. And it's all about measuring a distance point by forming triangles to this point. So for example here you have two folks with their piodolites or whatever those instruments are. And they're trying to point to this distance tree. So in genealogy what we're doing is the distance point is an ancestor. So we're here in the present and the distance point is in the past, in the distant past. We're actually trying to triangulate on an ancestor. And what you have here is maybe two cousins who've done the DNA test and what they're trying to do is to find out what DNA did they inherit from that distant ancestor that is shared by both of them. And that really is the concept of triangulation and it's very similar to what's been used in trigonometry and geometry for many, many generations, many, many centuries. So previously on YouTube, and you can find this if you just Google YouTube Morris Leason step-by-step approach it will bring you to some of my videos that I've done on how you can analyse your autosomal DNA data. And there are four steps that I normally do. Step one, where does the common ancestor sit? Step two, is the common ancestor obvious? Can you find it in each other's tree? Step three, will eliminate non-contenders. It can't be that ancestral line, it can't be that ancestral line, it can't be that. What am I left with? And step four, which is the step I'm going to talk about today is triangulation. Working with small groups of people of three or more. So that is the topic of today, working with small groups. And in order to do that you have to identify groups who are likely to have the same common ancestor that has passed down DNA to everybody in that particular group. Now for this we will be using what family tree DNA call in common with matches, what ancestry calls shared matches and what 23andMe calls relatives in common. They're all the same thing. There's a small group of people that share DNA that is likely to have been passed down to them from the same ancestor back in the distant past. Now there are several ways that you can approach this. I'm going to talk about two of those ways today. The first one is messy triangulation. And this is kind of the catch-all approach. But you'll see how it works and how it worked in my particular case. And that's working with known cousins. So you actually know the people involved, know the people that you're testing. They're triangulating on a known ancestral couple. So there's an ancestral couple in your tree and you think, that's my brick wall, I really want to find out where they came from and maybe push it back an extra generation. So you're triangulating on somebody that you already know from the paper record research that you've done. And you're trying to push your tree back in time. You're trying to get back an extra generation or two. Now there's other types of triangulation. For example, when we're working with adoptees, where you're triangulating back in time and then bringing the tree forward. You're trying to trace forward in time to the living descendants of the common ancestor to find the biological father or the biological mother of the adoptee. So there's various ways that we can use triangulation today for genealogical purposes where we're going to push the tree back in time. Now this is my family tree and like all family trees it's a little bit messy and trying to get it all on one slide is difficult. But here's me here. There's my brothers and sister. There's my dad there. And dad goes back to these ancestors here.  Her mother was Elizabeth Spearman. Her father was Edward Joseph Spearman. And his father was Patrick Spearman and his mother was Mary Morton. So Patrick Spearman and Mary Morton were the triangulated ancestors. Those were the ancestors that the triangulation was aiming at. And I realized after a couple of years of getting involved in DNA that I had also tested dad's first cousin who also went back to these ancestral couples. And Kathleen went back to the same couple and Owen went back to the same couple. And you can see they're forming triangles. Back to this particular couple. And it occurred to me that any of the matches that any four of these cousins share in common with each other, well they must have received DNA via this route, either from the spear inside of the family or the morgan side of the family. And this is what triangulation on a non-ancestral couple is all about. Anyone who matches any two descendants has to be related, asterisk, by a common ancestor either at or above the level of Patrick Spearman and Mary Morton by three times great grandparents. Now the asterisk is there because with everything in DNA there's like this is the rule, except in these certain stances. And then there's a long list of exceptions. And the exceptions here, it was a false positive match which is a match that suggests to you that you are related, in fact, either you're not related at all or the actual connection is much, much further back in time than the match would suggest. That happens from time to time, especially with the smaller segments of DNA. Larger segments of DNA is not so much of a problem, but anything below 10 centimorgans, the chances of it being a false match go higher and higher and higher, the smaller and smaller and smaller the DNA segment gets. And that's a fact of the system of analysis. And the second fly in the oediment is the second connection. How many people have cousins marrying cousins in their family tree? Well, that's just about everybody. And that is the problem, is that when you come from a small isolated rural community, I think we have a few of them in Ireland, you tend to get people cousins marrying cousins. And it might be fifth cousins marrying each other or fourth cousins, or first cousins as well. The father of modern genetics, one of modern genetics, evolution, evolution Charles Darwin, he married his first cousin who was from the Wedgwood family. And they had more of their children died than the national average. So they were afflicted by perhaps this cousin into marriage, but that's something that we'll be hearing about from Donna Rutherford in the next presentation. Now, so that's the second connection may very well be present. Let me just turn this off. And I'll just leave that there. So, what I did was I compared each of these four cousins who were all descended from this common ancestral couple here. And I looked at the number of matches that they shared in common with each other. So it was if you'd like to call them A, B, C, D, I compared A versus B, A versus C, A versus D, B versus C, B versus D, and then C versus D. And that gives you all the permutations of the possible combinations because A versus B is the same as B versus A. So you get six possible combinations and here they are here. So Dad and Cormac shared 53 matches out of their thousands of matches in common with each other. Dad and Kathleen shared 17 in common. Dad owned 13 in common. Cormac and Kathleen 34. Cormac owned 15. Kathleen owned 22. And I put them all into an Excel spreadsheet and I sorted them and I removed the duplicates and I was left with 100 shared matches. And these were people that shared, were shared matches between any two of these four. At least two of these four cousins shared these matches. So then I just sent an email to every single match. Now, we didn't know whether the match was from the Sfeirin side of the family or from the Morgan side of the family. I was interested in the Sfeirin side because I run the Sfeirin YNA project and that allowed me to break through the brick wall and take me back from my brick wall at 1800 in Tipperary to the 1600s in Limerick, to the 1500s in London, to the 1400s in Belgium, potentially. You know, it's opened up avenues of research that have pointed me back to the records and it showed me where to look. And I've got some excellent data and I'm still in the process trying to tie it all together, but the DNA has directed my genealogical research. So I sent a personal 100 emails to every single one and it was simply, you know, you match at least two of these of my four cousins and we're all descended from Patrick Sfeirin and Mary Morgan. Sfeirin or Morgan ancestors in your family tree. Yes or no? It was just that simple. And I got 49 responses and they said, no, no, no, no, no, no. The 50th response said, yes. I said, oh, great, fantastic. Now we'll find out where the Sfeirins were before Limerick in the 1600s. Oh, it's a Morgan. Well, I wasn't that interested in the Morgans, but we'll just explore this. And his name is John Morgan and here is a gravestone in Limerick and here's a close-up and it's erected by John Morgan in memory of his beloved wife Mary who died in 1879, aged 78 years. She was born about 1801. He was probably born around about the same time and that is quite similar to when my Mary Morgan was born around about 1800. So could they be brother and sister, first cousins, something like that? I said, could you show me your tree online? And they said, we haven't started it yet. All we know is what's written on the gravestone where the rest of our family are buried. So guess who's doing the family tree? So I took it upon myself and I was able to get a lot of information about this particular Morgan family branch and I was able to take it back to John Morgan who was a similar age to my great-great-great grandmother Mary Morgan. But I couldn't make the connection. I couldn't find any evidence or data that actually allowed me to connect John Morgan and Mary Morgan together. So after months of research we put the research aside and said, hopefully something will come along in due course. So then, as is the case with genealogy, you wait. Two years later we got the 51st response. Now the 51st response was a new DNA match and it was another Morgan ancestor. He actually had an ancestor called Patrick Morgan who was in the Royal Irish Constabulary and here you see him in a photograph probably taken in the 1860s. This is his uniform. He was governor of Maryborough jail and this sword is still on the wall of the Morgan household in Dublin. So a beautiful photograph and this is the first time I've actually seen an actual Morgan photograph He was born around about the same time 1812. He could have been a younger brother of my Mary and the other person's John but it caused me to there were rumors also of a link to Wales and of course Morgan is a very Welsh name but it could also be a native gay the Irish as well. So I never could decide one way or the other way what it could possibly be. So I took out all the old research I found a tree online because I started googling again and said was there anything new on the internet let me see what I can find and I found this tree and look there is Patrick Morgan in 1812 and it has his parents in it and I thought oh this is really lucky we've actually found the parents for my match he's going to be really really pleased about that and then I looked along the list that is Elizabeth Morgan and she marries a John Gorman obviously he was very fond of anagrams and then I said oh that's the John Morgan there that could be the John Morgan that I found two years ago hold on those are my great great grandparents what are my great great grandparents doing in this tree and I looked for there's no sources and the author had put this up three years previously so I thought there's no sources in this tree three years ago I'm going to contact him and I'm not going to get any reply at all but I did four days later I asked him why do you have my great great grandparents in your tree please and he wrote back saying because I have Professor Wardell's notebooks from 1906 I'm sorry excuse me who is Professor Wardell well he was Professor of Military History in Trinity College Dublin in the early 1900s and Professor Wardell the Attie, Shona, Gold and County Limerick made a Trinity College Dublin is collecting materials for a history of the Morgan name in Ireland I thought oh my goodness have I hit the jackpot here is this somebody who's actually spent his retirement researching the Morgan surname and then I found something else notes and queries 1849 Irish claim to Welsh Parenacy the complete Parenacy shows that a claim was prepared by the morgans of monster heaven put forward by the industrious genealogist this is a genealogist now from 1849 who's done all this work two 18th century letters which may or may not be genuine so it started suddenly there's elements this mystery starts unraveling and Professor Wardell's notebooks fell into the hands of this 51st match sorry the chap who owns the family tree and this is an extract from his books and it's difficult to see but there is my Mary Morgan married to Patrick Speeran these are all the brothers and sisters of Mary Morgan including Patrick Morgan from 1812 and also there's a John Morgan up there as well somewhere along the way there we go John and from this I learned that Patrick Speeran came from Capa, Fowlingary, Cante Limerick I never knew where my Patrick Speeran was born so already I'm getting information about his place of birth not only that but he marries Mary Morgan who became our sea so she changed her religion from church of Ireland to Roman Catholic and that's a very very common thing that we see in our own family trees how many people have seen a change in religion in their family trees quite a few people this is the gold mine but not only that not only did it push me back an extra generation it pushed me back so those are going to be my fourth times great grandparents fifth time, sixth time seventh time great grandparents so I've gone back four generations more and not only that but they go back to the morgans of Tredigar apparently and they go back well here is a they have this kind of crest and coat of arms 1031 so am I now going back to 1031 this is ridiculous I fell off my chair so many times when I was reading this I couldn't believe it was actually happening and I even found wait I have to show you my new house you're a wonderful audience you're all invited to come over for a weekend the lads can play polo and the girls can relax on the lawn playing croquet and then we hold out the night away in my ballroom and we have breakfast served to us by our living waiter Manuel who is from Barcelona so this is Tredigar house this is where the morgans used to live and suddenly I'm seeing them in the dictionary of Welsh biography I'm seeing them on websites around the world and there's this wealth of information about morgans there are Wikipedia, there are scandals and tales of Tredigar house and I'm even related to this chat he was captain morgan he's my own Jack Sparrow pirate of the Caribbean of my own family tree and he later became Sir Henry Morgan so he went from pirate to governor of Jamaica where he had lots of plantations so now I have a relative who was a slave holder so now I have to incorporate slavery into my family tree it raises very interesting questions I'm also related to this chat from a pedigree I found in Salt Lake City which goes back to we don't know his surname yet but apparently he's my 472nd great great great great great great great great grandfather and a pedigree of the morgan family from Noah down to Sir William Morgan night 1612 made out about 1825 so now I'm related to this chat here Sir William Morgan who did his pedigree back to Noah obviously there's a lot of myth and fantasy here but I have to double check every single figure, every single fact to make sure that this is all kosher I'm also related to this chat here anybody know who he is exactly JP Morgan wealthy American industrialist Morgan Chase Banks I should be rich but I'm not I'm also related to this person here because she goes back to the same Sir William Morgan who was born in 1571 and did the pedigree in 1612 so is anybody else related to Princess Diana ok Debbie ok Debbie I'll see you at the wedding in May so suddenly triangulation has opened up a whole wealth of material that remains to be explored verified, discarded taken on board a lot of fact checking but this is opening up an area of research that I would never have dreamt of had I not actually done DNA and done this triangulation exercise with four cousins who happened to have the same three times great grandparents so that's that and the last thing of course let's look at this false positive second connection present a problem at the time not too bad for to identify shared matches what we do on Family Treaty DNA is look at the in common with feature so you go into your Family Treaty DNA results there is a tab that just says in common with you click on the cousin that you want to triangulate with so for me it would be my I go into my dad's results his cousin Cormac comes up as a very very close match I just tick Cormac's box and then press in common with and it generates all of the matches that dad and Cormac share in common with each other these are their shared matches these are their relatives in common all the same thing and Family Treaty DNA allows you to download the spreadsheet download it into an Excel spreadsheet remove the duplicates and then send it I send an individual email not a bulk email but an individual personalised email to every single person on that list I got a 50% response rate which is not bad and the 51st response 51st response was the corker that's the one that broke through the brick wall in ways that I could never have imagined the second connection how to ruin a good party it's the spanner in the works it's the fly in the ointment because many of us will have a second connection so for example here is dad and here is his cousin Alan they are connected up there their common ancestors are John and Alan Gleason and their common ancestors somewhere up there supposing they have a match with Mary it was a shared match they both share Mary as one of their matches it could be that the common ancestor has maybe three DNA segments that it's passing down to them a red one, a black one, a blue one it might have passed down a black one and a red one to Alan it might have passed down a black one and a blue one to dad it might have passed down a blue one and a red one to Mary so none of them have actually inherited all three DNA segments just the luck of the genetic lottery you get what you're given but they've all got two out of those three and because of that they all match each other and it looks like they're all related via the same common ancestor and a lot of the time they will be but here's an alternative explanation can you come to the next one? supposing common ancestor number one between dad and Alan just passes down a black segment so Alan gets a black segment from this ancestor dad gets a black segment from that ancestor the same one, the same ancestor supposing there's a second connection and they both they have a second ancestor who passes down a red segment to Alan and a red segment to Mary so Alan and Mary have a separate common ancestor supposing there's a third common ancestor shared between dad and Mary who passes down the blue segment when you look at your matches it's going to be exactly the same result A matches B, B matches C C matches A but they don't have the same common ancestor they've got three separate common ancestors so that can happen and especially when you get these double connections and especially when you come from a more isolated rural community and there are cousins marrying cousins so you have to be careful about this and of course the further back in time that you go the more likely this second connection can be a fly in the ointment you know with third cousins I think you're relatively okay if you start getting back to the fourth cousin level the fifth cousin level I think the chances of finding a second connection within your family tree the higher and higher and higher and eventually you're going to get what's called because if you take my dad loves this calculation if you take this two parents four grandparents, eight great grandparents 16, 32, 64 take it back to 2,000 years you have trillions of people in your family tree more than any more people than ever lived on the planet so there is going to be cousins marrying cousins as you go back in time he calls it socially acceptable in breeding so all three match each other they come back as shared matches using the common with facility on family tree DNA none share a single common ancestor and the chance of a second connection is more likely but further you go back in your tree so if all shared matches match each other this could mean either all three share one overall common ancestor that was example number one number two each pair has a common ancestor and there is no overall common ancestor shared by all three people or alternatively all three of them do share one single common ancestor and there is also a second connection with two of them or even with all three of them so those are the kind of options you need to keep in mind and that's why I describe it as a fly in the ointment because it can be misleading and what's the probability of each scenario I have no idea how do we distinguish between each scenario that's when we come on to the second type of triangulation and I just call the purest triangulation to distinguish it from messy triangulation and the purest triangulation means proving a particular DNA segment is shared by all three people this is where we get really technical I don't like it I think the messy triangulation is good enough because ultimately you're still going to have to go back to the records to prove that the connection actually is true but here is what we actually use to do this purest triangulation we want to look for overlapping segments we want to create what is called a triangulated group which is a very specific definition in genetic genealogy you can also use phased data and ideally that's what you would need to do to be absolutely certain you have found a triangulated group and this is the purest approach and there are a lot of blogs written about it so Blaine Bettinger who writes the genetic genealogist blog has talked about a triangulation intervention and there is a Wikipedia definition of triangulation as well but that's mainly talking about Y DNA and mitochondrial DNA whereas with this one we're talking about autosomal DNA which is all the rest of your chromosomes there's also some blogs on triangulation written by Jim Bartlett's segmentology he talks about how to triangulate does the triangulation work so you can get a lot of information from these blogs on how to actually go through the whole process if you are interested in doing that some of you may be it's very time intensive and if you have spare time on your hands well I'm good I prefer the messy triangulation method because I think it's much more old encompassing but with this type of triangulation where you're looking for a DNA segment that is shared by everybody in the group and here are a few more blogs that deal with it you end up with something like this so here is a similar example these are the cousins that were tested and they all go back to this particular ancestral couple here so they're all triangulating on this particular ancestral couple but look at the DNA segments that are shared between all of them here is a DNA segment shared just between these two people all of these single lines are DNA segments shared between two people this one is overlapping that one is shared between these two people here and also these two people here so there's three people involved in that particular segment so that's an overlapping segment that's shared by more than two people excuse me what else do we have here's another overlapping segment that's going to be shared by more than two people here's an overlapping segment here that's shared by more than two people and here is one that is shared by the blue, the purple the red, the orange, the green that is the largest one but it doesn't include absolutely everybody in the group so if you were just going to use this as the triangulated segment that must have come from the common ancestor you'd only be looking at the matches for these people and you wouldn't be looking at the matches for the other people in this particular triangulation group and that to me is perhaps an example of throwing the baby out with the bath water because I think there's a lot of useful information that to be had by looking at all of the shared matches within a group of people because that is how I managed to get my Morgan problem solved and you do have to be aware that you could be going down a false track because there might be double connections there might be false matches there as well but this purest approach doesn't get you it is very pure and you can say for sure that these people have a 99.9999 99.99% chance of actually inheriting that particular DNA segment from the ancestral couple upon which everyone is triangulating however and the reason why this happens is because we have two copies ideally you'd want to just compare chromosome 21 with chromosome 21 your copy of chromosome 21 say from your paternal side with the one copy of chromosome 21 from your match but of course we get two copies of each chromosome from our parents one from our mother one from our father so when the machine is reading these chromosomes it reports the value of the bases on each of the chromosomes in turn so at this particular position I have a value of TT I have a value of GG at this position here is AG at this position here is CC so that's my chromosome 21 and those are the particular points that I have on that particular chromosome when I'm comparing mine with my match this is my match's two chromosomes so I'm comparing my two with my match's two my match is going to have maybe a TT of this position a CT of this position a GA and a CA and when you're comparing two bases on your match's chromosome with the two bases on your chromosome and we can illustrate this graphically by looking at a fully identical region a non identical region or a half identical region so a full identical region and TT matches TT two letters from me two letters from my match GG does not match CT AG is a full match because it doesn't matter whether it's AG or GA so AG and GA are a full fully identical region and CC and CA only share one C in common with each other and that's all a half identical region so that's the kind of print out you'll get on JED match if you upload your data to JED match and there's a very useful visual way of actually representing but if we phase the data and that means instead of comparing two chromosomes with two chromosomes we isolate the maternal chromosome from the paternal chromosome and we just compare one of our chromosomes with one of our match's chromosomes and if we did that this would change the values to T, G, G and C and we did the same on our side and just noted one chromosome we'd have T, C, A and C and this would change this visual diagram to this one we have a fully identical region a non-identical region and this would go to a fully identical region so that's what the phasing does by separating out your maternal from your paternal copies of your chromosome and getting your match to do the same you actually can get a much clearer picture of where you actually match each other on a DNA segment and this could be used for triangulation because it would actually help to identify triangulated groups much more efficiently it's not essential but it would certainly help so a triangulated group is defined as three or more people share the exact same DNA segment all are shared matches to each other in common with status all have the same DNA segment either in its entirety or in just overlapping parts and you can add in phased data to this definition as well it confirms that the same segment originates from the same common ancestor that is the purest approach you can see it's quite technical you can see that it is quite complicated and it's not something that I would recommend to people but the messy approach is good enough for the beginner and just to show you my dad's matches with those four cousins that were Morgans there's my dad there the only overlapping segment is this one down here which he shares with only two of those four people so if I was just looking taking the purest approach with my dad I'd only be looking at the matches for two of his cousins so triangulation means different things to different people it can be effective without getting into technicalities it can be confirmed by searching for overlapping segments overlapping segments are not always present so proof is not always possible but it does not negate the findings nevertheless just because you can't find an overlapping segment doesn't mean that you're not related to this particular via this particular triangulator ancestral couple documentary evidence of a connection is good but it is not confirmed that the DNA was transmitted to all shared matches so that overlapping segment that my dad has with those two cousins I'm assuming they came from either Patrick Speer or Mary Morgan but they could have come from a second connection that I haven't uncovered yet so you have to keep that in mind as well and using face data maximises the veracity of true overlapping segments using overlapping segments and face data only identifies a small proportion of all possible triangulated groups and messy triangulation still has an important role to play so after all that DNA is a pointer and I'm going to bring it back to the very very beginning DNA is a pointer that just says you and you you're related to him and go away and find out how you're connected and to find out how you're connected you go back to the records for what DNA has done is it has shown you where to look and that you know if that's all you take from this lecture that is the most important message DNA is just a pointer it shows you where to look it helps you focus your genealogical research but you will have to go back to the records to confirm that you are related via a named ancestor so that's what makes DNA such a useful tool is because even though you can get wonderfully technical about it you don't have to you can simply use it as advice when people write to me and say oh DNA says we're related it's on chromosome 18 it's a 10 centimorgan segment I go stop let me just stop you there here's my family tree do you recognize any names and if the answer is no then we're still back where we started we're still at that brick wall and it's thanks very much for getting in touch wishing you the very best of luck with your genealogical research and if you find out anything more be sure to get back in touch with me and then it goes into my black hole folder called autosomal DNA matches so that's really all I have to say and I will say thank you very much and if there's any questions I'll be happy to answer them it's fine enough to ring the microphone around if anybody has any questions any questions from everyone anyone very difficult to determine because that's called in a genealogical time frame and that is just not the case so you can have it but perfectly you might share it with a your full cousin and the question is a thousand years ago any reliable way absolutely and that's why that example is such a wonderful example because all I did was to see who are the people that match any two of these four cousins and let's assume that that DNA has to come down either by Patrick Spyrin or Mary Morgan and let's just do a blunderbus effect let's contact everybody on that who are a shared match I didn't bother looking at the DNA in fact the chart that I showed about my dad and his matches to these four cousins I only thought about it afterwards because it didn't even cross my mind to go and check the DNA all I know about the DNA is it saying you're a match you still have to go back to the records and I thought I actually better look on the browser and just see what the DNA segments are that are shared and see if there's any overlapping segments but it was very much a secondary thought now I know that's going to be heresy probably to a lot of people who spend a lot of time pinpointing which DNA segment came from which ancestor but I think the fact that I had to wait for the 51st response to actually solve the question shows that if you are going to throw out a lot of potential shared matches show them away because they don't have a triangulated segment you are going to be losing the opportunity of getting in touch to one person who has professor Wardell's notebooks who has that genealogy that goes back to the ten hundreds who has that family Bible that has all of your ancestors an extra two generations on the line that you're interested in who has the letters in the attic that nobody really cares about but they were frightened to throw the maps so for me the messy triangulation approach and just looking at your shared matches is still a very very good way to actually approach the whole thing I think it saves you a lot of time because all you have to do is send a hundred emails and that saves you having to understand the technicalities of a triangulated segment and other finer niceties of the technicalities wonderful any other questions there's one from John Reed here there's one from Polly Walton over here I don't read the skeptic yet fine if instead of being fascinated with those sgir in ancestry you have been fascinated with your Morgan ancestry don't you think you would have got the same conclusion about any DNA evidence? very good question and the answer is quite possibly yes but I was particularly focused on a particular ancestral line and I think that's true for a lot of us is that when we are going to do our tree there are certain ancestors that interest us more than others there are certain surnames that interest us more than others I don't know why I didn't find that Morgan family tree two years previously when I first did the research because I was on Google and I was looking at various things and it probably was still up there at that point in time so I didn't see it back then and that's another feature of genealogy is that you google something you find it and then two years later you find it again and you've forgotten that you found it two years before you think it's fantastically new and you're really excited I'm having the strangest deja vu it is deja vu because you've deja vued it already so yeah I could have possibly found it through conventional means but I would argue that the DNA can help speed up your discovery of the right records has it? on the side of a lovely example for your blue side and your green side can I just say that Paddy usually when I find something Paddy says oh I just heard from your fifth cousin we'll come to that at the end of this my great great grandfather I forget how many greats grandparents Thomas Parker married Mary Kees in 1831 in 1840 Thomas's brother Francis Parker married Margaret Smith in 1841 Margaret's brother Joseph Smith married Mary Kees sister Ellen Kees so each of them in a family three families each family are first cousins to the other two they have no single common ancestor that I am aware of so if you take their DNA they will one person from each family you will have three people who will look at first cousins to each other if you look at their half-identical regions their first cousins I'm pretty sure there will be regions in which all three are half-identical to each other but even in that case we have the exception to the rule it does not necessarily follow that there is a common ancestor up to you go and do the amazing the only way to rule out a case is like that absolutely and my Thomas Parker had a first cousin also called Thomas Parker he married Suzanne Electric his mother was Alice Morgan he was one of your Mormons I knew it was coming that's wonderful let's all put our hands together not to jump over our spacing what was the presentation all of genealogical information from Rick Wall and the next presentation here is going to be the final presentation of genetic genealogy art in 2018 in Belfast and it will be from Donna Rutherford who will be taking us on the game of genes oh no it's Ed Gilbert actually I'm sort of just looking forward to Donna's presentation that Ed is standing there at the back of the room I apologize for confusedly how can you possibly forgive me so it will be Ed Gilbert here in about five minutes time I just wanted to give you a heart attack hi do you match most people in Ireland who have tested do I match most people the smallest number of people in Ireland who have tested oh no no quite a few it's over 100,000 I'd say yeah yeah between the various companies it's quite a few people you come up in my matches really you're going to have to send me an email I haven't looked at your surnames and none of them burns burns in Victor burns in my tree