Hi So I've been totally looking forward to this but I have to admit also I was just at another conference I just literally this is my second 9 a.m. Keynote in a row and I haven't really figured this out I was a professional programmer in the 1980s, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it And I but I didn't have a great social life And so I decided to go do a master's degree, and I'd always been interested in artificial intelligence And I wound up here, and I haven't programmed professionally since 1998 And so I've never been to this kind of conference so but I also have been completely disorganized I don't know what I'm doing today, so I'm planning to spend all day at the conference if anyone has its suggestions about what I should Go do maybe the sprints mentoring. I don't know what I'm going to do, but anyone come up to me. That's great But I'm going to go I'm going to try to go pretty fast through the talk and hopefully we have a big conference Conversation at the end because I do mostly now talk to academics To policy makers some of whom many of whom are clueless a few of whom are smarter than people make out And things like that. I love being back with the people who are actually building the software and getting you know Feedback and finding out if I'm behind on anything So I really hope that we have 15 minutes of conversation and you guys tell me what you think But this isn't all that's going on I don't even know how that's supposedly four different ways of getting in touch with me But let's face it. We're mostly still on Twitter. Even though we don't want to be or something. I don't know Let's talk about this is AI product or a person. Oh, let's let's ask you guys. How many people think it's a product? Anyone think it might be a person sometimes So this is why I like being in these kind of groups. Okay. Sorry.  Okay, but but a lot of people think I hate robots because of some of my papers And I love robots. Why do you think you go and do a PhD in AI? Like I love these are pictures I took right that I was a meeting these these guys were building this robot, right? But of course it's a product. It's something that's built that's right. It's replaceable Replicable this was academics But the vast majority of my eye is of course coming out of its extensions of corporations, right? You've got a piece like a bit like a Microphone and a camera and some intelligence of a corporation in your house if you have one of those speaker thingies, right? Or of course if you have a mobile phone, right? So yeah, this is a product and this is a person. Thank you All right, so I'm going to talk actually it's a lot of words in this. It's not that many pictures in this talk Well, yeah, I forgot I have some theory part at the beginning. Okay So what even is regulation a lot of people hate regulation They're like, oh, why are you regulating us and it's like what are you talking about so I come from biology, right? And and like gene regulation, right? It's like how we persist actually I think there's a slide about this, right? But there's up regulation is down regulation This is one of our papers about looking at The fact that even things that look like they might be bad mutations, right negative things that that they're Recoverable and they're part of the process of innovation, right? You know, this is this is biology, right? So regulation is just the means by any by which any complex entity perpetuates something into the future That's basically it right you all know this thing about that your cells are dying and in seven in seven years You don't have any of the same cells It's not exactly you and you look older and and countries look different and and and companies look different But there's something Recognizably like you in the future and that's what we're all working on and governance is when we do that explicitly So I just showed you like nobody is sitting here trying to plan their gene regulation, right? But we are planning like what we're good when we're going to eat next and that's a part of regulation You're trying to regulate your weight breathing is regulation. These are all regulation so So when you cause something explicit and again, I love doing consciousness But I only have a half hour here, but you bring me back if you want my consciousness talk It's really fun But anything that's spoken or written about right? So I actually therefore if you by this definition I don't have any trouble saying that AI is conscious I just don't think it's a moral Patient if we back it up Right, so corporations and other societies including families everything we all self-govern of course we self-govern Corporations must self-govern they wouldn't be here tomorrow But we also coordinate so we have geographic interests I mean talking about this in the Czech Republic right now is extremely evident But we always have problems like and even before the COVID I would use this example like if your kids are vaccinated It doesn't help that much if the neighbors kids aren't vaccinated too, right? And there's this whole thing about the air quality and water, you know Can you even get clean water? These are all things that you coordinate, right? And you get your nation to take care of these kinds of things It's like we I a lot of people have this idea that government is some like alien agency But we constitute that this the nations that we compose and the nations that are composed by a geographic proximity Government is the way that we coordinate So we should constitute our governments to we should realize we have an obligation to Reflect the interests of our communities through our government, right? That's part of what we're the model I'm trying to communicate here So I just said that Right, so that's what we're trying to do all right, so Governments both provide up regulation like I don't think there's a government anywhere in this continent That isn't pouring money into the digital economy, right? It's just They put they give us lots of support, but they also restrict us but restrictions again if you learn AI you learn this too even restrictions Can help you because it's like, you know, literally it's not that you're just searching under the lamp post when you're looking For your keys. It's that someone shone a spotlight where the keys mostly fall Right, that's what that's what good governance is like now We all know that can be bad governance too But this is why we want to work with our governments to make sure that the spotlight is in the right place, right? So that's the kind of model. I'm trying to describe here so now let's talk about what the EU is specifically trying to do about AI and Oh, you know, that's okay. We've got plenty of time. I don't think I included some slides Let me think yeah, I didn't I'm gonna just tell you this a lot of people think AI is only happening in China and in The US and that's because these people made this sort of misinformation figure where they looked the biggest companies Right, but a well-regulated Economy doesn't allow really large companies that that the governments can't control. Well, right So if you just we did a paper called is there an AI Cold War? And we showed that the EU is actually comparable to China if you look at how many companies have at least two patents at the national international level In AI it was one category of AI model-based AI and And also if you looked at the market capitalization of those companies, right? And actually the rest of the world if you exclude China and the US and the EU the rest of the world combined has is about the same level as China and the EU combined but the US is dominating on those two metrics But that's partly about the metrics too, right? But anyway, the point is there's tons of AI in Europe and a lot of it is as you guys will know It's embedded in like conventional industries as well. It's not just that we have like big superstars, but there's you know It's everywhere. Okay, so Yeah, so this is all the People talk about the AI act a lot, but look at this the EU is really busy and again, I don't know if you guys know what we have here It's like this incredibly lightweight bureaucracy. It's like one of the cheapest for the amount of stuff. It does It's one of the cheapest bureaucracies in the world You know because it is that extra layer so we have to pay for our governments to and then we're paying this extra thing But it's pretty smooth so anyway all of these things Are the people and I'm not gonna talk about I just sort of talked about but in this talk I'm not gonna talk that much about the Digital Markets Act, which is about basically this market dominance by small numbers of actors mostly foreign But the Digital Services Act I'm going to talk about in the GDP are in the AI act. I'll talk a little bit about And I could talk about liability if you guys want me to and the other stuff I'm not even that involved in the more financial end all right, so The GDP are like if you think about what is it that what I keep so I don't know if you guys know I'm an American and then I moved to Britain because it was cool I and but then when I was in the EU in the UK in the EU I figured out that the EU is really cool, too And so I took a British passport specifically to have an EU passport It was in 2007 but anyway, so so when I was Start and I and again, we're regulating AI in the EU We're not regulating it very well in the UK or the US so that it kind of starting right But when I thought about what do we need to do? I mean I was trying to figure out about Google since I did a PhD at MIT and a lot of my friends were in Google and I Was interacting with them and you know and I was just like what is this new entity? You know, I didn't learn about this in high school civics What it what it and also I think that about like the Red Cross and these you know various NGOs like this Europe Python, right? What is this new community? But anyway Google had a lot of power and it became evident that the government was looking at that and I'll show a slide about that later But anyway, a lot of the things I was worried about are in the general data protection regulation Which we've had as a law now for like five years, right? So making sure that there's valid consent we all know that's in fact I hope you know that that's been gamed, you know it's supposed to be in the law that it's just as easy to to reject as to as to accept and that should be on the first screen, but also that They the Parliament they anticipated that not that much software would pop up those windows So a lot of people are popping up those windows like why do they even need to keep? Personal data right the idea was that like don't do that Right, but a lot of the the big corporations were deliberately trying to make the EU look bad by making it really annoying having these really crappy windows, right? But anyway That the transparency requirements the the fact that you can correct data that that's wrong about you Which actually become interesting discussion about that some that I that's one of the things. I'm not crazy about I would I would like that. I like correction, but I don't like that the deletion Because you need to know why you think something right it's your externalized mind So I'd rather have the corrections labeled there, but I made data portability and of course the automated processing That's like one of the fundamental things if somebody decided something about you using a machine You need to be able to see why you need to be able to contest it, right? Okay So the digital services act is really super interesting too. I don't know if anyone who here is like worried about the digital services act Like no one. Oh my gosh you guys So the whole point here is that yeah, we want a safe predictable trusted online environment And so we have to defend our users, right?  Okay, sorry But I personally I think that like you know Twitter and Facebook both started going south when when when they took away Your capacity to just see the people that you were curating the people you followed, right? And now it's like it's pretty random anyway, so it's not random that would be better Anyway targeted advertising obviously that was a big deal particularly in political advertisements that because we have all these protections in order to try to keep our government good But they're based on people being able to able to check if that if the political advertisements are honest Well, but if everybody's seeing their own created on the fly Political advertisement, how can we possibly police that right so targeted advertising is a problem anyway It's also a problem for like gambling addicts and things like that But it's a super a problem for democracy right and then of course profiling like how did you decide to serve me this? Advertisement what was the information you had about me? Why can't I transparently find this out? There's this thing with Facebook some some so they started review They said okay, you want to know here you click on this thing Why did I see this ad and it shows you three reasons you saw the ad and some researchers at Princeton started taking out some ads? And they figured out that what Facebook showed you was the three least informative things Right so the thing that actually really narrowed you down You would never see that but it's like you know But you almost always see like your gender or something right because like half the people You know are getting focused on that or not depending your gender of course, but you know it's not But they literally were deliberately choosing that and revealing so that's the EU is trying to stop that they're saying no We need something clear So um, yeah, I talked about this already so Yeah There's something weird going on with targeted advertising and I don't understand it I'm not an expert on this, but some people claim no one's making more money. It isn't actually helpful Everybody thinks they want to know about their their customers I find this really problematic if it's true that all these people like everybody switched look at this Everybody switched right everybody switched using Google and Facebook. This is this is what I mean people say like AI robots Are going to take our jobs. This is like the main one of the main industries that we destroyed jobs in not by making better news But by just taking the entire revenue model away from journalism, right? So anyway, so everybody switched they all want this thing and yet they're saying like oh when we turn it off We don't seem to lose any money It's not clear that it does a better job of selling stuff So, yeah, I find it hard to believe that this kind of massive shift is just is just trend or fashion So maybe the numbers and economics haven't been worked out correctly Maybe somehow it really helps with your innovation to add this information about your customer base or something It's also possible that there's some kind of external thing and speaking about those slides You may see this as no for and it's a little hard to read because I guess that somebody has decided you can put this on Wikipedia even though it says no for but anyway, this is one of the The Snowden slides And and so we didn't know that these people had all signed up to this until Snowden and and Google didn't know that they had been hacked by their own government You know, they weren't happy about signing up to this. They were they were the third held out I guess but they they But they but they were really unhappy when they found out from Snowden that they had been hacked, right? So something weird is happening. Let's get down to the AI regulation though. I think it's almost like a decoy. It's so boring Okay, so yes famously we're categorizing AI into stuff that we ban in the EU because that's not who we are Right, that's the theory right so that includes social credit ratings Which incidentally China has also signed up to the UNESCO thing that says we should no longer do social credit ratings So but also it's about biometric scanning So it's okay that if your passport has a you know knows who you are and you go and you can check your passport You've consented to having a passport or whatever But it's not okay that people are tracking you as you walk everywhere in the street and they know exactly where you are Which incidentally again, I've heard is true of cars at least in Britain There's so many cameras in Britain that they know exactly where all the cars are and Which a lot of people are associated with cars anyway, so So, yes, there's things those are things that are banned and then the vast majority of AI although again That's what they said about GDPR with the with the things But the vast majority of AI is supposed to be no problem at all And then there's this little category which is high risk and that basically means if you have a product that can change people's Lives, okay, I'm enough of a geek and enough of a psychologist that I know every product changes people's lives But what they mean is things like education welfare opportunities Whether you get a loan or not Medical stuff those are the things that are in this high-risk category, but then what happens to if you're in high risk I already talked about that um is You just have to basically do DevOps. It's really weird I mean, this is like something that every other product you already have to do Right that just for some reason software has been excluded from normal product law People were arguing that software is a service. It's not a product and although some people argue that services are also products I don't even need to go there in my opinion Software is definitely a product it can provide a service I think people get a little confused again That's the AI thing if it's providing a service But you sold it to someone to provide that service or you built it as a part of your corporation to provide that service It's still a well It's actually when you sell it to people that it becomes a product, right? So anyway people don't like the idea that software is a product partly because it's so Agile right that that the that the library is changed out of under you and they're saying how could you have a product where? You know that the you know What if you were building a bridge and you had concrete that collapsed and you said well This isn't a product because the concrete collapses all the time right now. You can't use that kind of concrete, right? We're in a situation. We're building a lot of software now as a central infrastructure Right, that's why people are trying to figure out how to hack it right you can't run a city anymore without software So you can't build it the concrete You know the libraries have to be something that that even if somebody does something really weird and something goes away The city doesn't fall over right does that make sense? Okay, I hope so So yeah, a lot of people a lot of people the EU said the compliance is going to cost nothing because you guys already keep these records, right and And and and then some like American think tank that hates the you said it's going to cost every company Especially the little ones two million a year and so a colleague of mine. She's actually Mary Hattie. She's super cool and she is finished you and so it took me a long time to pronounce her name, but she She really did most of the work But we went through all the stuff and she had a lot of experience in SMEs and also a little bit in in like you know consultancies or whatever and It came it came out to somewhere between like eighty and two hundred thousand depending on the kind of company that you're running So compliance costs if you're not used to doing compliance then, you know, obviously, this is a new thing that goes into your into your Bottom line right but I was just at another conference kind of like this one only it wasn't pure programmers it was something called Euro chatbot and a lot of the people there were for things like banks it turns out that like a lot of the people with NLP they're trying to reach out to people to help them figure out things like servicing their debts taking care of the health care There was a lot of NGOs or trying to help people, you know connect into welfare services Whatever anyway, if you're in a normal company like like a bank you already have there or you're doing a financial There's a guy in an SME. He said I have like, you know, 40 people working for me Every year I personally do the compliance. It takes me two weeks It usually improves my business when I go and I rethink about that, which is again That's that's good governance So if you if you if the stuff that you're doing compliance on is actually helping you think about how to do your business better I said and then I spent half a day on the GDPR I do not know what these tech companies are complaining about it's nothing, you know, so that I've heard that for a number of people so anyway Of course, you don't hear that from from pure tech companies because again, it's the first time they've had this particular burdens That's really shocking to them. So anyway, it's not that expensive and The the one thing that every piece of AI has to do is that you have to make sure people know they're working with AI Okay, now this seemed like a no-brainer to me. Although I knew people were faking it I mean, I was in America for a little while between 2015 and 2019 my partner was working for Princeton and I was like You pick up the phone and I you as an AI expert I was not sure if I was talking to a person or machine, but they call it lot And so I started hanging up on a phone on things that might have been people, right? And then it was just wrong, you know So anyway, this is a part of the of the AI act and the year old chapter had people freaked out Nobody had told them and it turned out that it's hard to say if you're talking to a person or machine because what's going on is There's real humans and they're sort of orchestrating a lot of sort of bot-like things. You know just X, you know Problem solvers for a particular context. So you think you recognize Oh, this person's having this problem with their password or something and then you shunt that bot to them So it's like a hybrid between a person and AI all the time when you're having these online conversations So they don't even know how to say that that'll be I'm sure that will shake out in like a year a lot of We're all geeks, right? We want things to be binary. We're like, oh, is this gonna work? It's not gonna work a lot of things in the law. It's just like, you know, just give it a minute. We'll figure it out Lawyers are actually really easy to talk. They're surprisingly like hackers, right? They make things work They're like people who really, you know get stuff done So anyway, but it is an interesting problem. We're gonna have I would have preferred a lot of people say famously the AI act is Proportional Risk-based and that was supposed to be speaking of binary that was supposed to be a continuum But unfortunately the more conservative wings apparently I've heard two stories about this Insisted that there were these levels, right? And that's I've just told you there's actually like four levels that there no problem It's two levels But I would I think that For the rest of us who are not necessarily classified as high risk It would still make sense for us to so partially comply because again, it's just DevOps With some of the requirements these reporting requirements and just think about them. So Again, I you guys are programmers. So I could probably go through this part much faster A lot of people. Oh, I think this is one of my famous bikes So I'm the person I was one of the people in 2017 that publish that paper that showed that AI is racist and sexist If you use machine learning and it's exactly as racist and sexist as the people whose data you've Processed because that's the whole point you're learning what they do You know and what they say not what they think they say, but what they actually do Okay, so what this is I don't know like this is finished again, but it's not my friend. I've just mentioned somebody I don't know from the internet, but in our paper Eileen Kellis can did this with Turkish so Turkish and Finnish both The he and she is the same word okay, so in in Finnish it's Hain and The point is that how it got translated into English depended on the rest of the sentence All right, so this is just a standard thing you can do you can play around with this for with Google Translate yourself. Okay, so it isn't that Google translate itself is sexist It's that it just is more frequent to see she next to laundry than to see he next to laundry, right? It's just showing you the probabilities. That's the way the language is in English Okay, there may be some countries where men do muscle laundry and then it would be he in that language, okay, so So anyway people are very upset about this and they want to fix it and and so what they wanted and this was oh That's that paper. I just told you about right Yeah, so oh geez I can't remember my own talk. I'm sorry. Look first. I want to point out What it's what I did this I just said in this talk There's this thing called wheat and it allows you to see how racist or sexist your your algorithm is But there was this other thing called we fat so it was so wheat was the word embeddings association tasks test and I forget what the effing is for this but but you take you take your rating of how well associated a word is with being very male or female or or or You know various races or whatever your your axis is you put that on the y-axis there And then you look at actual data So these dots here the left is the thing that was producing all these these sexist comments the The bottom is the labor statistics or the census about who has nate so this these dots are like the first names English first names like Alex and Chris and you're saying like how many of these people are male and how many of these people are female and then the dots over there are The names of jobs and unfortunately some jobs had two words So if it was like domestic engineer, we just have engineer there. So that's probably there's kind of the noise These are huge correlations. I mean this is with the 1990 census. It was the last us census That had the information about the first names in it Right so that was the closest we could do and notice this is the English language web But I I was just at a meeting where people are freaking out that the English is so dominated by American experience You know, this is if you're using these chatbots They're gonna start biasing your society to be more like America, right using the English ones, right? Because this is that it's all reflecting the norms of our experience because there's a lot of American text Anyway, so enough about that. I already sort of said that Back to this translator problem. The point is that Literally the first drafts of the UAI acts nobody's perfect. It said unbiased data. There is no unbiased data In fact by the old way we used to talk about machine learning every regularity is a bias and that's what you're looking for That's knowledge Right, and it's also knowledge that it turns out that mostly women are doing laundry like that's something we can mine And it's actually a fact, right and and we might want to correct it That's what consciousness is for we can choose new targets, but currently it was mostly women who were doing laundry, right? Anyway, people saying let's have unbiased data if we just use a simple transparent easily auditable Algorithm then we are going to get this Stereotyped output that replicates our lived experience. All right, but we can choose if we want to what a fair output looks like Now this is super hard. Again, you think fairness is easy. No, it's like say you want to have Again, not just a two-gender if if you want to have the equal number of men and women in some kind of position and Then you have to make a decision if that's what you want And you don't have the same kinds of test scores and using tests then you have to change the Opportunity so it's harder for either the men or the women depending on which ones are currently dominating to get in so you can't have Equality of opportunity and equality of outcome unless you started in an already fair system, right?  I Used to think that I So I wrote this paper and we said we think it's really important to have this compartmentalized And yet almost everybody who cites that was all trying to warp, you know Distort as if they could choose all the isms the original Learning thing and I was really worried the reason they were doing that was because if they could get rid of the sexism They could also make you more likely to go to the people who are their advertisers or whatever things like that So I thought that they're just being mean Bad there. They're just trying to hide things when we give corporation power. That's what happens That they could they could be distorted for good reasons even but to do bad things But it also turns out, of course, it's a little slower to have to have these two steps But I was just at a meeting about generative AI in fact where the American companies are Starting to realize this is a problem. They're saying it might be worth doing two or three steps So we can justify each of them.  So I don't think we shouldn't have moral panics about what lines up in that first box We should worry about this bottom box about what the company Allowed out as expression, right? But what it comprehends well, we want us to understand our world, right? So yeah So if that's the whole thing is a translator It's not just that one little box is a translator and the point of the DevOps is that every stage of this should be audible and replicable I mean, this is news. This is news you go talk to a Lot was news a few years ago now that AI acts reflects it that you know because the because Microsoft and people were were used to helicopter into meetings like policy meetings and say You're gonna lose deep learning if you start trying to regulate because we can't explain what each of the weights does Nobody goes into a bank and says tell me what all the synest is that are doing in each person that works for your bank Right that is not the question The question is how did you know it was a legitimate product that you could release on the world, right? And so that's about like, you know, I'm telling these guys about like build to test, right? Yeah, like that we've been doing that since like 2000 Right, that was like when the one of the agile manifesto came out, right? So all you have to do and this is news not to you but to these people like somebody architected the system Somebody designed it now. We don't know you guys know better for your own companies than I do AI companies tend to be way worse at this the normal software companies about whether someone saved all these papers, right? but sometimes somebody architected it and there's logs there should be revision control logs again telling them that there are these things is is like this big insight and And There they're shots of the testing logs And we also once the system is active if it is an AI system You often keep track of the inputs and decisions not too long because the data privacy But if there's a car crash that so you keep it like for like 24 hours or something, right like a camera Okay, so the point is that all of this is for the benefit of developers as you guys know, right? That's why we started doing I mean I remember when revision control was a big deal. It's the 1980s Right and we're like wow, this is cool And then I started using it just for myself so I could keep track of my old versions of things, right? It's like but but it's also Potentially auditable so both the digital service act and the AI act assume we should be able to audit But you can talk to these consultancies. They say oh, yeah, you guys say that but you go into these companies Those files are not there that that record is never there. It's negligent Okay, again any other product if you couldn't prove you had done the right thing Then you're held liable for any problem made by your product anywhere near it You need to be able to show that it was the user's fault or somebody you know somebody hacked into your system You need to know if there's weird behavior. Is it because of your software? Somebody hacking it or your user abusing the system. That's the kind of thing you need to be able to talk about So anyway, like I said that ordinary product law presumes a capacity to prove that you've done due diligence Followed best practice avoided the worst practice and that includes documentation that most of us do all the time Unless you're an AI company came out of the physics department. You didn't take CS 101, right? Or systems engineering at least which is sometimes second year. Okay, so yeah Yeah, the end of the so there's another question, which is who is going to do this So the consultancies they make their money off these financial audits So they won't touch the people that are already financial auditing But they they're talking about this like a some kind of risk assessment Like they do that for people that are trying to move into a new area and like no you guys also do cyber security Why aren't you building up from your cyber security because in the first place if the system isn't cyber secure then everything else You know, who knows what these records even are, right? So these guys are not thinking about it, right and I do really worry about this We've written all these laws. We said, oh, we can make the world a better place Are there people that can actually check the audits, right? There's two different ways to increase the numbers of people one is by training them or something but the other is By making our software more transparent merit comprehensible to to other people so making sure the documentation is clear stuff like that So, yeah, I feel like I've talked too much about this compliance part But it's getting excited about the geekery of it and most of you don't look like you're asleep yet So that's quite impressive but the point is that Okay, I will say this the DSA tells really large companies that they have to think about what the threats are and They have to come up with a way to address them and then the EU is just going to check their work All right, and again if you have a computer science degree, you know theory of computation It's easier to check whether they did something right than to do it in the first place In theory, right so one thing to remember is even if right now we don't have the Enforcement and audit capacity and there's been a big problem the GDPR that it has not been enforced adequately Because we're talking about digital records It's still worth doing the right thing because in the future Maybe someone will do this with AI or something right so we could go back and do a lot of older work All right, so how much time have I got left? I don't even know who's my chair I've told me it's including questions or no. Oh, jeez. Okay. I wanted to be in conversation by now Okay, how many people want to see the actual AGI slides and how many people want to start arguing already Okay, I don't know okay first AGI slides Okay, are you all ready? Okay, okay You lost I'm sorry. I was just this is a deep-mind person at the last meeting. I was just that she was talking about And they did a pretty good job They've really talked about all the different kind of harms that she could think of like, you know Like including things like treating AI as human like And then her example was something like oh, you know if they say how many legs do you have it says well You know I'm a software system. I don't get to have it legs or something, you know and and you know whether malicious uses and then the things we didn't talk about discrimination hate speech and misinformation and Then she said well, I've looked and I've read the I've read the literature and there's only benchmarks on the first two So maybe the other four aren't things we can police Look benchmarks are not the only kind of policing right and I just told you this stuff before that So anyway, oh, yeah, I know I was gonna do it this way So I mentioned before about this we fat thing that the point is that Yeah, that this is stuff that we could choose sorry Even like Steve Colbert figured out. Okay. The problem is that you change your system on the internet, right?  No, there's lots of real information there It's not the internet. It's the whole problem so Yeah, I mentioned this before even if we're only worried about biases that They could come from negligent engineering practices adversarial sauce on the system Deliberate engineering you could have one person in the company that's deliberately trying to disadvantage somebody else It could be the design There's this thing in Idaho about that like you know a new government comes in and they don't like putting a lot of Money into welfare and so they just say okay We're going to use a machine learning system that gives less money for disability, right? So yeah, as I mentioned the audits thing so anyway back to her So that you know that she's like what can we do when there's no bet tracks? Well, first of all take responsibility for your product caught a product, right? Make it don't say I don't have any legs say you're interacting with a digital product of deep mind, right? There's a totally different tone to that So yeah practice transparency early you don't have to wait for the AI act to come into place if you really want this stuff to work so I I got into AI ethics because I was working on this robot and You know someone's posed it to look like the thinker, but it didn't work at all Okay, at this point that it turned out that the CPUs weren't properly earthed or grounded if you're American, right? So it was like it was not working was basically a statue and there was all these other robots around that did work But people would walk up and say with that particular robot It would be unethical to unplug it and I'm like well, it's not plugged in and they're like well if it if you did plug it I'm like well, but it doesn't work. Yeah, people really want they want they were proud. They said We know that I'm like why you're so sure it's unethical to unplug it in and unplug it And they're like well because we learned that from civil rights and feminism, you know the most unlikely things turn out to be human Yeah, so you think that a Woman is as much like a man as a pile of motors is like a man, right? That's like weird Okay, so anyway people really demand to have things that the AI is something that they can fall in love with Best friends partners spouses equals But they'll have complete dominion over it right they can turn it on and off they can buy it now People have wanted to complete dominion over their partners for a long time. Unfortunately, so I really think this is a feminist issue Anyway, an issue of human rights complete dominion is not partnership. Alright, I Have a conjecture that part of why there's a rise of this transhumanism idea that these two things are affecting us very differently Is that we over identify with the artifacts partly because we feel like we're losing ground And so we really really want to think we can expand ourselves through our through our coding but Can't actually talked about this and I don't know how much I want to get back to the Q&A Kant was saying Look So I don't know if you heard about this Descartes apparently not Descartes himself, but parties of Cartesians They would light a dog on fire and say isn't it interesting that they simulate pain Because they were sure that emotions had something to do with the divine connection of humans, right? And the animals didn't have this so Kant apparently didn't like this and he wasn't sure about how God felt about dog Sorry how God felt about dogs, but he was sure that people that were bad to things that reminded them of humans Were bad people so he said look the dog can't judge you so I'm not talking about that But if you're cruel to animals, you're also gonna be cruel to men. So therefore that's wrong Okay, so people therefore take that to mean we have to be good to AI give it rights things like that But I would say that's wrong because there's a lot of AI that nobody identifies with so they're there It's only special pieces and also there's this huge problem about if that the the if we hold AI to be human like There's no way that we can dissuade it with the law Like anything we put into it that says oh don't break the law. You don't want to break the law You could take back out again So I think that since we know that AI can be an ethics link we should work really hard to build AI that we don't identify with But anyway, this is again these are this is how how the law works. I'm gonna skip that right now. Yeah People really really worry about her robots feel and I mentioned before I'm happy with the idea that AI is conscious Since you can use it to report its own experience fine That if that's what you want is a definition definition of conscious But if you're worried about the phenomenology of being like yeah turned off and then turn back on again or whatever I can't tell you exactly. I think there's a little bit of phenomenology there, but it's nothing like as much Similarity to us as things that we eat Okay That cows feel almost exactly how we feel you can hear them screaming when you take the calves away from the cows Which is part of the dairy process not to be evangelists for veganism. Maybe But the point is they they have the same feelings we have you know fruit flies are going to have more Similar feelings to us then the stuff we build out of digital stuff so This is maybe not the end of a GI you wanted which is the this is the end where people really think it's a person The other end where it's the thing that's taking over the entire world or whatever That's what I was talking about before when I was talking about governments and companies about how do we keep? control of both of those and Then finally this thing about super intelligence learning how to learn. That's us for 10,000 years we've been taking over the world and that's why we have a climate crisis right now, but we are learning to learn And so that's what I hope we're doing here. So I've talked about all the pieces. I wanted to talk about AI is an ordinary product And we ought to make it audible law it isn't that law has to keep up with technology The whole point of due diligence is what we write in our trade books and what we say on the stage of meetings like this That becomes due diligence that becomes the state of the art, right? So so we keep we get to keep making this stuff better and logic says that one company doesn't get to ignore What every other company has decided is is a good way to to maintain a stable? sector Okay, so and especially and I find this again at the URL chatbots people were looking forward to the AI act because They were the people that were selling natural language, you know parts components into software They they thought we can now also send in sell in the way that we audit our systems as one of the as one of the Services that we provide people who buy our software so it plugs into the AI act into the audits So I hope you feel the same way AGI isn't a threat as a category error Negligence and abuse of power are the threats and I said the treats. Oh my god. I can't believe I said that sorry the threats Okay All right, so AI is our product and and I go back to the picture. I'm sorry. I Love this picture there This is a guy still in versus the smog master. Sorry about that. I forgot to change the last slide So let's have the the people put up their hands and try to get me not to do a GI They should get to have the first questions. Go ahead. Yes. So if you have any questions, please walk up to the mic and We still have about two minutes to have some questions Sorry about that. Oh, thanks for a great talk. Oh, that's good And I was just thinking as developers I think we're pretty prone to think of law and regulations sort of as source code where humans are interpreters instead of computers and While with source code, but it grows in complexity over time We at some point have to refactor it and yeah reduce the complexity and While sitting on the sidelines and watching all this regulation coming in place It feels like it's sort of an append on me Operation it grows in complexity over time. I'm just wondering When is this growth process ever gonna stop is is there built in any sort of incentives in the system of regulations to reduce complexity when it comes to a GI regulations and such Okay, I I won't I'll answer most of that question without the AGI part just just because it'll be a little more expedient There's some people behind you. Um, yes, there's a lot of stuff for that So for example, if you read the original white paper, so you do have to sit on the on the sidelines There was like all this consultations and there was this white paper and like 40% of the white papers like oh my god Liability liability. There's this new entity. What are we going to do? It's there's no new entity There's the corporations that produce the product There's the deployers who are who are selling the product and there's the end users And those are the three people that can be liable And so at the end of the day that the parliament another commission the commission decided Okay, we're gonna update our product liability and put like two lines into that and we're gonna strip all this crap out about Liability from the AI act. So people do do refactoring in the law, too It's a it's a slow process, but you want it to be slow because Because you need to be able to plan your company So that's why it's deliberately kind of a damped process and we're kind of running under it But isn't like we only get more and more law there is older laws get thrown out and updated But again, it depends on your country, but the EU is pretty good about this and and again one of the things that's controversial of course is that sometimes we're stripping out national stuff for For things that we've signed up to but yeah, lots laws are replacing each other in this that process It is remarkably similar to software. Thanks again. Sure. I'm fortunately We have a run out of the official type for questions But I'm sure Professor Drawner would like to hang about here and then we can chat about all the questions in the hallway track Should we do so this is the coffee break now? Yes, okay, so do you want to let the guy at this microphone ask a question in the coffee break or no We have to do the coffee break for the coffee break. No, we're gonna hang about okay I'm sorry. I will stay here everybody wants to talk to me and please tell me what would be cool to do the Rest of the day to but let's give a huge round of applause You


All of the finalists who didn't win major prizes tonight, don't forget, they get a $200 research support grant from PASA. Thank you very much Chris and Bachel for helping donate that money to our finalists. And I'd like to invite now to the stage Professor Jenny Corbett and PASA's Education Officer Bachel Chalise to the stage to present the main prizes. Who do you think was best? Well actually we watched the poll, that's the fun of electronic voting, and it was very very clear very early who the winner of our people's choice was going to be. So I'd like to invite to the stage Nusin Nishiri. Now you may not know that Nusin actually wasn't going to be a finalist tonight, Nusin was a runner up and she came to our open day presentation and she rocked it. And she got the people's choice there and she's got it tonight, well done Nusin. So now for the runner up. The judges, we hurried them along but their choices I think were pretty clear for number one and number two. So the runner up of the ANU three minute thesis final for 2015 is Kelsey Long. Now Kelsey told me that she entered the three minute thesis competition because her office mate convinced her to do it. Is her office mate in the audience tonight? No. Anyway well done, thank you very much, well done Kelsey. So the winner, the moment we've all been waiting for. And the winner of the ANU 2015 three minute thesis final is Chiara Bergman. I'd like to congratulate Chiara because those of you who were here last year will know that this is her second time in the final. And she not only did the high dive once, she did it twice. And I think that's very impressive, well done Chiara, well done. Thank you, thanks Chiara.


In a previous video, I made a page and typed in the content myself. This is great for short pages, but what if you already have a document in a word processor and want to make it a page in Canvas? Here's the course outline for the course that we're building. It's four pages long. We don't want to retype all of this by hand. How do we get it into Canvas? First, in Canvas, we'll return to the home page and create a new page titled course outline, select it, and edit it.  In the rich content editor, we right-click and paste. Remember that the content area in Canvas isn't a full word processor. It's designed for making things that look good on a web page. That means you may have to edit things. For example, this section here, which looks great in the word processor, doesn't look so great in Canvas. I'm going to edit the content by changing those sections to bulleted lists. And by the way, I'm speeding up the video here. Now, I'll get rid of this extra line here and move this heading into its proper place. I'll get rid of these extra blank lines, and these here as well. To complete the job, I'd want to get rid of the extra lines here in the course schedule, but you get the idea. When you're done editing, remember to save or save and publish. You don't want to lose all your hard work. There is a way to upload the original file to Canvas as well to make it available to students, and we'll cover that in another video. There's one additional thing that I do want to point out now. The page we added is the last thing in the module. We'd rather have it as the first one. If you need to move things around within a module, use this icon with the eight dots. It lets you drag things to the location that you want. That's how you take material from an existing document and put it into the content area in Canvas.


So, we're being told many things about the damages that cows and red meat do to our planet and how unethical they already eat. So, number one, the methane, right? Number two, we're all going to die if we eat it. So, and I can tell you, in the town I live in, I live in an upscale suburb outside of Boston and people are pretty well educated, very health conscious, nobody eats red meat. They're really, really concerned about their cholesterol and their overall health and they eat fish and chicken and I am very upset about this and I want to help people understand that red meat is incredibly nutrient dense. At the same time, we're also being told that meat is murder. It's especially strong in Europe. I was just reading in France that there's a vegan group that's been vandalizing butcher shops. We're seeing stuff going on in Canada with the one restaurant, yeah, that was being harassed. They're a small but very vocal minority that actually is having quite an influence I think in our dietary guidelines because even the less meat, better meat is a problem I think because when we say less meat, it's still implying that it's somehow bad, right? So what I think is we need more better meat, not less meat, better meat. Really upsetting to me are the public schools in Brooklyn and a couple other in the New York area. Right now I think there's three that have gone completely vegetarian. For many kids, this is their most nutrient dense meal of the day or it used to be before they got rid of the meat. The organization that is behind this is a vegan front group underneath a very benign name like, you know, Mom's for Healthy Lunches or something like that. And they also will send you these free posters to your school, peace on a plate, right? So this is going in our public schools. You can get this for free. This is a moral, you know, quasi-religious message I would argue that has absolutely no business being in a public school. Also, we've got Super Size Me and if you, you probably can't read the sub under here, but it's basically saying that kale is the most nutrient dense food you can eat. OK, people really, really believe this. And that's why the initial thesis for the film project was kale versus cow. Just talking about, you know, is kale really the super food and what's going on with beef? And then we're also seeing companies like Nestle completely going into developing countries, disrupting their breastfeeding and their traditional foods and getting them completely hooked on Western junk food. In many places, you know, I'm sure many of you have traveled to Central America, South America or other developing countries.  And so, you know, for many reasons, I think we need to get our act together in the U.S. and with our food policy issues because the rest of the world copies the U.S. And a couple of years ago, I did a presentation at AHS about should sustainability be part of our U.S. dietary guidelines. My argument was no because we don't even know what sustainability is. And so how can we possibly put that into our dietary guidelines? Again, the entire world, if you look, almost every country has some type of pyramid that's based on the U.S. dietary pyramid.  So there's just, there's huge problems, all right? A lot of times people will come to me and ask me, how are you going to feed the world, right? How are you going to do this? And this is a really big problem. I, you know, I have a three-bedroom Airbnb here. And you know, how to feed the world on meat would be like saying, how am I going to house everyone at this conference in my three-bedroom Airbnb, right? We have an overpopulation problem. We've got some food distribution problems and some food waste problems. But do we want to produce human feed or do we want to produce healthy people? Okay? So I think that, you know, we need to use logic and less emotion when we're trying to talk about all the challenges that are facing us moving forward. And I did send a, I realized that this talk was only half an hour this morning and I sent a new presentation. I'm realizing I have the old one on here. So I'm going to talk quickly through a couple of other slides. As you know, vegetarians are not healthier when there's very large studies that have looked at, you know, when you pull out all the confounding factors and just look at people, you know, of equal healthy lifestyle that eat meat versus don't eat meat, there's absolutely no difference in longevity at all. What the world is actually eating? This is from National Geographic and you can play around.  This is the total world and you can see, you know, very, very large percentage of grain. They unfortunately put sugar and fat in the same category. I would not have chosen to do it this way. But then once we break out the meat, it's really just 1% beef that the world is eating. And if you look also under produce, it's only 3% vegetables.  So in Massachusetts last summer, they introduced a program where people would get an extra $40 to $80 to spend at farmers markets on local produce, right?  And meanwhile, what's going on with the meat vendors? New England is amazing at producing meat. They were not included in this. Why weren't they included? Is local meat too luxurious for a snap? You know, if we're trying to feed nutrient dense food to hungry people, meat is the way to do it, not organic strawberries and mescaline mix. Over, let's see, from 1970 to 2014, what we're eating more of. So the oranges, what we ate in 1970 and the red is 2014. So you can see where the increases are. It's poultry like crazy. Worldwide I think it's about 400% increase in poultry. That's what's really high in omega-6, chicken. We're eating a lot of salad and cooking oils. It's probably not, you know, coconut oil and olive oil. It's vegetable oils. Grains and this is not pearl barley when they're talking about grains, right? What does grains mean? Grains just means processed food and then caloric sweeteners. But then when we're looking at the food, the future of food, many organizations are, again, looking at this lab-grown lettuce or lab-grown meats as, you know, these are the answers to the future. But if you really think about, you know, all of the energy that it takes to have this building, to have the lights, to have the artificial atmosphere that's needed for this, the plastic trays, the growing medium, you know, and there's a roof on top of this building, too. None of these seem to have realized that, you know, if we just had a glass top we could actually use some solar, you know, to grow what? To grow crunchy water because salad is just not a nutrient-dense food. And of course a lot of people are looking at, you know, is it the carbs, yes or no? I know this is kind of like old news for a lot of you but still, you know, out in, you know, regular, like, dietitian land, suggesting that someone reduced their carbohydrate intake is blasphemy, like, totally crazy stuff, right? That's why I'm really excited about some of the work that we've been tracking in our film and if I get a little time at the end I'll talk about how it's transformed a little bit. But we've been working a lot with Dr. Sarah Halberg. I know someone earlier reviewed the results of the Verda study. She's doing really, really incredible work in the middle of corn country, Lafayette, Indiana. We have a film crew there today, actually, at her clinic, following up for the third time with a lot of patients there. And we actually have on film her getting disinvited from testifying to Congress because even though her study they admitted was completely, you know, scientifically rigorous, they all agreed with it. It's just two against the status quo, okay? I still got to get permission from the person on the other end of the line in order to actually air that, but it's amazing. It was amazing to just watch the call. So anyway, so I think that we really, we need to be, you know, definitely talking about all the nuance and learning about different aspects that affect health, like here at conferences like AHS, but there's still a lot of work to do on a very, very, very basic level to the masses. And that's why the work of Sarah is so exciting to me and why our film has morphed a little bit and is really, really honing in on Sarah's work. Again, when we look at what the world eats, if we look at the meats, so you can separate it out by meats. But the increase has been between 1961 and 2011, 0% in beef, pork, 91% up, poultry, here it is, almost 400% increase in poultry, seafood 108%, and at the same time though, I really just don't feel that we're eating enough protein. So the dietary guidelines are telling us .8 grams per kilogram, really, really good evidence out there that we need, at a bare minimum, double the RDA of protein. If you look at this range, so if the AMDR, the, let's say it's adjusted macro, daily macronutrient ratios recommend between 15% and 30% intake in carbohydrates, or I'm sorry, here we go, 10 and 35 is what these bars are, so the lower range is 10. We're pretty close to the lower range here. And I'm a big believer in the protein leverage hypothesis, so if we aren't feeding our bodies enough protein, we're going to seek out more calories just in our effort to try to get more protein in. And if we're only feeding ourselves the center of the grocery store, then we're just going to overeat. Protein is the most satiating of the macronutrients. It's the most nutrient dense if we're getting it from animals. And I'm not the only person who is saying this. This is an article from the New York Times, also saying we need at least double the RDA of protein if you're over 40. And that's a lot of protein. I actually calculated it out for my husband. He's close to 200 pounds. At 1.6 grams per kilogram, he would need eight ounces of meat three times a day. That's a lot of protein. And not one person walking into my clinic is getting close to that much. And the magical thing is when I just up their protein and like do nothing else, they lose weight because they're so full from the protein, they've got so much great nutrients just from good protein. They're not hungry. So I think there's a lot to keto. There's a lot to low carb. There's a ton going on with protein too. And I feel like protein is just sort of assumed at this given level. But that's why I'm all for more better meat, not less meat better meat. Because I don't think that's going to help our obesity crisis or our diabetes crisis. I think that's just going to help people feel better. And people just need to get over it. And accept the fact that death has to happen for life to happen. And that cows on grass can do a really amazing job at restoring our soils and providing one of the most perfect foods for humans. So let's look then. And again, for a lot of you, I know that this is review. If we look at calories per 30 grams of protein. We've got cod at 137 calories for 30 grams of protein. And I took this off one of those vegan memes where they were like, you don't need to eat meat. All you need is, and it was all these plant-based ones that I've got here. So potato didn't even fit on here as far as calories. But you can see, for example, peanut butter, you would need to eat 706 calories worth of peanut butter to get 30 grams of protein. So to try to get 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram out of plants and keep your calories low, it's a huge challenge. So you're going to do better with veggie burgers and tofu. But then you've got other issues with veggie burgers and tofu, right? If we look at protein per serving, so these are the standard USDA servings. You can see that three and a half, I know that this is small, but three and a half ounces of chicken will give you 31 grams of protein. But then we keep going down the line and it's meat, meat, meat, meat, meat. Eggs, I just want to mention, are actually not fantastic sources of protein. There's only six grams of protein in a large egg. So when I have vegetarian clients coming in and they're like, yeah, but I eat a lot of eggs and I'm like, great, two eggs a day, that's 12 grams of protein, that's not a lot. So peanut butter, two tablespoons, eight grams of protein. So we've got all these ones down here. Now let's look at nutrient density too. So B12 iron and zinc, and I just compare different meats. Just so you can get a sense of where some of the most significant nutrition that we need, iron and B12, are the most common nutrient deficiencies worldwide. And so look down at the poultry. We've got almost no B12 in chicken or turkey. And I had to take oysters off this because they had 76 grams of zinc. All right, this goes up to six. All right, so oysters are amazing. I do advocate for red meat. I am a huge advocate for shellfish and fish as well. But anyway, I just want to sort of point out, you know, poultry, I've got a lot of issues with poultry, and it starts with their nutrient density, continues with their omega-6 to omega-3 ratio. And so if you look at ground turkey, look at the omega-6 in ground turkey. Really, really high. Chicken breast.   Even if they're pastured, they still eat a lot of seeds and grains. So the other thing I wanted to point out is I have seen a lot of data from different farms as far as their omega-6, omega-3 ratio for grass-fed beef, but it's still not a significant source of omega-3s. So you would still need to eat about eight pounds of grass-fed beef burgers to get the same omega-3s that you would get in a one ounce piece of fish, okay? They're just not a significant source.  I think grass-fed beef is awesome. It's just, the omega-3 argument is not really great because it's just not a significant source. But lab meat, I really, really hate. And again, just like I pointed out with the vertical farming and how it just doesn't make sense when you could be using just sunlight and put the seeds in the ground and watch them grow, we could have cows on grass. And I'm gonna be pointing out a little bit later how efficient they are at transforming grass to meat. The thermodynamics absolutely cannot work in a lab meat system. I think people are walking around thinking, and I actually challenged, I had an animal welfare activist on my podcast that I'm gonna be airing maybe next week, and she was all for lab meat. Oh, it's so great because it's less harm and, you know, nutritionally it's good and, you know, it's gonna be saving the environment. And I'm like, really? Because how are you gonna grow that lab meat? Like what's it gonna be made out of? You can't just make something out of nothing. And she had never even thought about what the meat was gonna be made of. And I don't think anyone's thinking about that. And I'm still looking for a life cycle analysis from Impossible Burger. They still have not produced one. And they're getting so much money. And they don't even have a full soup to nuts exactly how their product is made. What are all the energetic inputs? What are all the, just all the inputs in general? What does it cost to run the lights in this lab? Bacterial overgrowth? Do you think that might be a problem in a lab meat situation, totally? I'll tell you what the medium is for making lab meat, monocrops. Okay, and this isn't, they're not using like organic regenerative wheat or something like that. They're just using standard monocrops. So whether it's soy or corn or wheat or just pick a monocrop because they can use a lot of different ones in order to produce these fake meats, it's absolutely horrible. This is not what the planet should be looking like. And we are turning the whole planet into one large monoculture. And not just agriculturally, but I also think culturally. That's a different presentation. And the problem is we only have about 60 years left if we continue with our current farming practices. This is pretty scary stuff that no one's really talking about. And certainly no one in the nutrition field is talking about it. So as all the nutritionists that are talking about sustainability are talking about lab meat. Nature works in systems. I actually drew this and I do promise that I was an art major undergrad. But I drew this because I wanted to, in this cartoonish way because I wanted to show you absolutely how simple this process is. So it's vastly complex, but it's actually really simple. So the rain comes down, irrigates the grass. The cow chews the grass, stimulating the grass to grow, fertilizes the grass for free. We don't need chemical fertilizers. We can use photosynthesis. And this whole process then builds soil carbon and increases soil health. We don't have to mine minerals to put it into the lab meats. The fungi networks are doing the mining for us. So I'm gonna take you through a little thought experiment called Grassworld. How much time do I have left by the way? Okay, great, okay. All right, so here's Grassworld. So we're moving into the Anthropocene. We've got limited resources left.  And I want you to farm this regeneratively, okay? And so there's nothing to eat. There's just dirt there.  So I'm gonna plant some grass. All right, what happens if we don't have anything eating the grass? We just keep the grass growing. Yes. If there's nothing eating it and nothing fertilizing it, the grass is gonna eventually use up all the nutrients in the ground.  Which I just heard is happening in Norway right now, right? Yeah. Okay, because they have less ruminants on the ground in Norway. Okay, so next step, you're gonna try again.   So now we have grass cow world. What's the problem with grass cow world? It's gonna be too many cows eventually. And so the grass is gonna be, yeah, we're gonna go back to grass world, basically really, really quickly.  So what if we introduced a predator? Now we've got a little bit more balance here. So we've got the predator keeping the herd in check so it's not gonna get too big because the wolves are gonna cull the weaker ones, the older ones. Also, the animals are gonna be on the move from the predator. So they're not gonna overgraze any one specific area. They're gonna be moving around constantly, which actually is much healthier for the pasture. It's still kind of delicate. You don't want just three things, right? So complexity is actually the most resilient system that you can have. And I know again, this is kind of a funny slide from like a elementary school science class, but I wanted to show again how simple this is and the more varieties of cows or ruminants or animals you've got, the more different pollinators you have is really how you're gonna build a truly resilient system. And that is just how nature works. And now humans can be that wolf, all right? And the cows can help us build complexity and resilience in a system. So we can, through mob grazing, intensive management, we can be moving the herd, which they would naturally bunch up anyway, right? Because that's how they're gonna be super safe. If they're super spread out, it's much easier for a wolf to pick them off. So they naturally want to be in a dense herd. We can use electric fencing to move them around and keep them safe and keep the wolves out. And then we can choose which ones we're gonna cull. So that's how we can use cattle and bison and other ruminants through electric fencing and harvesting. And here's a slide from the Savory Institute just showing a before and after of reductionist thinking versus a more holistic thinking. So thinking in systems. But what about all the people that are claiming that it takes so much land for cows and we should just be cropping at all? So I'm trying to give you some arguments here, right? So some like defensive points. Not all land can be cropped. And I would even argue most of the land that is cropped today should not be cropped as well. Pretty cool stuff going on in Lafayette, Indiana, where we're filming with Dr. Holberg's clinic. It's corn country. And we're also filming with farmers who are turning the corn back to pasture and producing meat instead of corn. So healthier for people, healthier for the planet, less fertilizer needed because it's getting naturally fertilized if the cattle are managed well. But if you think about places like Norway or Iceland or most of Africa, you just can't grow kale or soybeans in many, many places because of water issues, topography. There are so many reasons why an area can't be cropped well. But even, again, in the areas that are being cropped, California has a huge water problem. There are towns that don't have drinking water, but yet we're diverting water from reservoirs to flood irrigate almonds to export or water, basically, to other countries through almonds. So most agricultural land is only suitable to pasture. So you're not comparing apples to apples when someone's saying, oh, well, I can have a pound of tofu for this much land versus your pound of beef for that much land. It's really the cows are moving around, they're regenerating the land. No block of tofu is regenerating the land. What about the water? I heard that it takes a cajillion gallons of water to produce an eight-ounce steak. Most of the methodology they're using when they calculate out this water is completely flawed. So what they're looking at is every drop of rain, this is called green water versus blue water. So green water is looking at natural rain that would have fallen on those pastures, whether or not it was grass world or cows actually grazing on it. And also, again, you're moving the cows, but unfortunately in a green water situation, you're calculating out all the rain that fell on all the pasture that the cow was on for their entire two years of life. So that's not fair, right? When you actually look at the blue water, so that's like the water the cows actually drank, there's a study out of US, UCSD, and it's 410 gallons of water for a feedlot cow. So that's even looking at cows that were finished on feedlots and not even just a purely grass fed system. So that's equivalent to the same amount of water it takes to produce almonds, rice, many, many other crops. Okay, I got like 10 more slides left and I'm gonna go pretty quickly. I've also calculated the feed conversion rate. That methodology is incorrect as well. I have a really great blog post about how cows actually, when you look at the actual grain that they're eating because all cows start out on grass, even if they do end up at a feedlot, they're eating a lot of crop residues like corn stalks and things like that because they're ruminants, they can't handle straight grain. The numbers that you see where it's like, 12 pounds of grain to a pound of beef is assuming that that cow for its entire life ate only grain. Not true. So it's not the cow, it's the how. I think we need more regenerative systems. I think we have created Grassworld with our modern farming techniques and I think that lab meat is just the continuation of Grassworld. So we're just doomed with, I wanna stop, I promise. I'm gonna go really fast. Least harm, if you look at one of those Grassworld situations, there's a lot of harm that happens. If you think about all the pesticides, all the land that was cleared in the first place to make it a field, if you look up the principle of least harm, you'll see numbers that someone calculated out. How many little critters die compared to one cow on grass that can provide 500 pounds of meat? Vegetarian India is seen as the holy, clean place, but you can only have a dairy system where you have meat eaters close by to eat the veal, right? So you can only have vegetarian India if you have the Muslims there to eat the meat. Americans spend too little on food, we're at the top there compared to all these other countries. I have another post where I went through organic grass-fed beef is less expensive than all these things, okay? I think we're disconnected from nature, no surprise there. I think we're way afraid of death, which is at the crux of our emotional issues around eating meat, and I think people think cows are the worst because they look closest to dogs. So the paradigm shift needs to be our separation and dominance and dominion over all other things to realizing our interconnectedness. So we need more better meat. Now this is just something I came up with, trying to think about nutrient density plus sustainability, and so you can see kind of my chart here. So even if you're in a grocery store and someone can't afford grass-fed beef, which we saw at Walmart the other day when we were there, I still think feedlot beef is a better choice than calf-o'-chicken or pork for environmental, ethical, and nutritional reasons. So that's it. Thank you very much. Questions at the mic, please. I heard that actually beef tallow, grass-fed beef tallow has almost a one-to-one Omega-6, two-Mega-3 ratio, and so if you ate the whole cow, it seems like you wouldn't have to have seafood. I still would like to see the ratio of Omega-3s in there just because the ratio to overall fat in tallow is, I don't know. I would have to look at anyone here, an expert in fat ratios. No, not the ratio of Omega-3 to, I'm talking about if we had a pie chart, okay, and we looked at what percentage of tallow is actually polyunsaturated, I don't think it's a very significant part of it. So I would just need to look at that because we need to look at like, even if it's double, if it's double, if it's two pennies versus one penny, it's still two pennies versus, you know, I could get five bucks out of salmon kind of thing.  When we look at dairy, it's a little bit better. There is some more significance in milk, but there's issues with dairy too, so I didn't bring that up here. I just wanted to jump in on that because one of the parts of the cow that we rarely eat here in America is the brain, and I think the brain has a lot more polyunsaturated fatty acids, so it might become significant again if you're looking at marrow and brain rather than just the muscle meat, where I agree with you that the ratio doesn't even really matter that much because the amount is so small. Yeah, I mean, where I'm at right now is trying to affect sort of massive change, and I just don't think leading with we need to eat more brain is gonna move the needle very hard. So, but yeah, I think we definitely need more organ meats. There's reasons why it's illegal to even give the brain to a farmer right now from a slaughterhouse, so there's issues there. Thank you for all the things that you're doing. I'm so glad you're making this public. I was wondering if there's a cultural model that has really sustainable high protein, like a microsystem that has a model that we can look at for that anywhere in the world. You mean like a population that ate a lot of meat? Yeah. In a way, and farmed it and grew it. Anyone pre-agricultural, pretty much. I mean, so humans can exist on a large continuum of macronutrients, right? So we've got closer to the equator, it seems like people ate more starchy tubers and more carbohydrates, but then the further away from the equator, it was plants don't grow great when it's cold, right? So they ate very, you know, of course, everyone's quotes that Inuit and the Maasai, right? It's like the meat cultures, but so humans who weren't living on the equator ate very large amounts of animal products to sustain them. Cool, yes. Is there a super food? I have a couple really quick questions. The super food, high protein, low calories, high micronutrients. Beef. Beef. Beef, I love it. And then how about desalination? Do you look at that for water sources for agriculture? In terms of water, in terms of finding water for... Water is a huge issue and it's gonna be the next big issue. I think some water issues are sort of driving the why they're using this funky methodology for beef and trying to blame beef on sucking up so much water. And not accounting for the fact that cow's pee, right? So it's like, they're not just like balloons that are expanding. So water is a huge issue and in some areas, I know like in the Southwest, the salt residues, it's a huge problem on the crop fields. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. Just one last question. Okay.


What's up everybody? Jason here for jaspyscasebreak.com. We just sold out 2023 Panini National Treasures Baseball This is a four box case break Pikachu number seven guys seven All right, we go Think about just be me All right, so of course like I said, Tony's running a little low, but everybody's names is in there and Then there's the eight team R&B with the names Hopefully we get some hits for you guys, which I think we should NT has been very very nice guys, but always still looking to get better Than the last case we've done. Here we go guys. We love the girth We love the thickness. Well, both of us have been on the top. Let's check it out. Whoo Three out of ten for Atlanta, which is the R&B Chipper Jones and Dale Murphy dual relic autographs Time you guys Atlanta Braves are a good team to get Still available in the next half now a little chip in here on the bottom so you can kind of see the little white on it But spot three that is going to add last spot mojo On the board Told you guys man Don't shy away from a couple of these teams here. Very nice R&B on the board already We have a a Romance Ramirez for Pittsburgh put a relic there. That's a 39 out of 49 that is Pirates going to John Joe Girardi, New York Yankees edition here 16 out of 99 Yankees going to Matt Smith, and then we have a out of 99 Walter Johnson Washington senators Which I believe Washington should be the Minnesota Twins, I'll double check that right now though. It should be going to Matt Pull up to check this really quick has a Washington centers and then on his page Play for the Washington centers and manage them and this is the ones that turn to the Minnesota Twins All right, so Minnesota is going to Matt. All right, and we have a down looks like you signed that little piece right there a rod Four out of five. Let's take a little a rod four to five there. That is Seattle Mariners edition Mariners edition Mariners is Michael Johnson There is see this is the thing that There's two Washington senators here There's a Washington senators that turn to the Minnesota twins and then there's Washington senators that turn into the Texas Rangers This one here that he played for is the one that reco relocated to Minnesota I'm pretty sure because that's what I've been going by for the most part. So I'm just going by the Wikipedia page There's like two Washington senators basically Which is annoying, but Alex Ramirez to 49 Yeah, it's annoying, but there's two of them Sorry Mets R&B 38 out of 49 8 is gonna go to Barry Roberts Right, that's Mets Mets Yeah, I can tell you right here in the Wikipedia page like It's kind of it's really annoying guys, honestly, but I mean, what are you gonna do? We had that happen to a different player I don't remember what what product it was, but there was like one that was a Texas Rangers one or was like what I didn't realize It was like two different teams Kyle, what's going on? 21 out of 25 Brady house I'm just going by Walter Johnson and then it just leads me to the Washington senators page and then it says Minnesota twins So that's what I'm just going by Yeah, no, I guess I mean, yeah, I'm just going by what it says there. I mean, it's just a little annoying, but It is what it is 21 out of 25 Brady house R&B is doing extremely well for this first box 21 spot one is Adam Cupperman. That's little Brady house three color patch And then we got out of ten John Syuk Shim For the Pirates going to John Then we have a Andy Rodriguez three color patch and autograph for the Pittsburgh Pirates, man pirates hit extremely well on this Yeah, see that's what the Europe yours was right Rex It says for the 61 71 American League Washington senators see Texas Rangers baseball I'm like, bro. What the freak there was two tech those two Washington national or two senators It's annoying and then we have got a little Randy Johnson about that 32 out of 35 for the Arizona Diamondbacks Ryan H There you go, Ryan So for anybody ever wondering about Washington senators just always just trying to pay attention to it I just learned of this past year. Honestly There was two of them. There was like one that played on the American League from 61 to 67 that's the Texas Rangers one and then the one that was from like 1911 1960 is the one that turned into the Minnesota twins. I first we got is Johnny mice 18 out of 49 and I might be New York Giants, which I believe I guess it wouldn't make a difference because even if it was Matt's out, which I don't think it is Still part of the R&B, but I'm just gonna tag a giant stone. I'll double check it 18 out of 49 So spot eight that's going to bury again But I believe that's New York Giants Johnny mice and yes, New York Giants. By the way Still going to the R&B. All right. We got the camcaller for Cincinnati out of 49 Cincinnati Reds going to add You got a colossal relic there Nick York scaring me Nick York, that's Boston Boston I wouldn't there be ink The toner you mean? I Mean it still works as long as they can still read the sheet for the next three. I'm gonna drain it till the end of it Lou Brock for St. Louis Cardinals Cardinals is that straight up and we got a out of 25 J. Ritchie for Atlanta four out of 25 and it looks like Rex is on the board with the R&B Jackson Mera be the real MVP 57 out of 99 San Diego Padres Francis without and how about a nice art? Well now our P a patch autograph tomorrow Johnson 22 out of 49 very very nice one there for Pittsburgh Pirates gonna John and we got John Smoltz to 25. I Love the definitive equals look really nice six out of 25. That's Atlanta spot six One of Jesse R&B's hitting very nicely to the chat Three by J. Doug no and last one here How about it out of 25 on card signature of Evan Carter for the Texas Rangers? There you go Eugene No, it's noise. Oh nice. That's cool Pacers are nice this year They nice want to make a bet for me if you want to put a hundred dollars on SJ's gonna win MVP Jace Jung 49 out of 99 nice one there for Detroit Timothy Just by to Kyle Murray rushing yours. Oh, really? How many do you need to get? That's it. I ain't rushed at all that you just throw the ball 249 I am pretty amazed by him. Those is one play where I forgot where he threw it through the two But he's so short dude like they show the angle of his height How like he how do you know how he sees the receiver? He obviously it's memorized where the receiver is going to be because he literally threw it over the line And it's like bro. I can't even see over the line like so the fact is that he already knew where this guy was going to be running And he threw it was amazing. I Give him props Ben Joyce for the Angels Kev Ruffella for Boston when a John Yeah, you guys are number four right three or four. Yeah, well depends you guys better lose If anything, yeah, you guys fucked it up by beating us forty four hundred ninety nine Texas rangers little Pudge One of Eugene and then we got a Greg Maddox for Atlanta 49 Uh that is 34 spot four is Rex And new year new Rex getting a couple couple hits in the R&B Whoo another Atlanta three out of ten Jared Shuster three that's going to add last ball mojo Then we got Cole Young for Seattle 62 out of 99 62 Actually, Seattle straight up. Anyway, it's Michael Johnson Then we got a Dale Murphy for Atlanta six out of 35 six Jesse with that one time and Atlanta be hitting bro And oh stars and stripes rp air patch autograph. Wow. How about that beautiful 23 out of 25 Jase young Beautiful hit right there and another one for Detroit going to Timothy Beautiful. I love the stars and stripes rps our patch autographs I should say And how about this Jason Dominguez 73 out of 99 Three color patch and autograph that's going to the Yanks and Matt Smith There you go. There you go A huge alien right there the Martian. All right last box here guys Tape might be stuck to those I don't like coming off. All right, we got a legendary signatures one out of ten And it's Bobby Thompson Which is going to go to the new york giants. I believe One out of ten spot one is going to go to cupperman Yep, legendary sainter booklets new york giants So again spot one's going to cup We got david orteez big boppy to 99 39 out of 99 and a little for The red socks going to john Jim Gillam for brooklyn Six out of 25 dodgers part of the rmb spot six Is jesse Evan Carter 23 out of 49 for texas Going to uh Eugene La mazala Or sorry. No la mel asa mel asa Which is jose reyes La mel asa that is two out of 99 spot two with that one is going to go to uh Jesse For the random number block for the Mets We have Justin Morneau for the minnesota twins out of 35 Twins is going to men g and i think they're still available guys in the next one But how about the color or rocky is there a little zack vene beautiful patches? There's six out of 49 Very nice Colorado number one baby. It's one of their top prospects Only a 30 dollar team right there We got kyle harrison nice one two three four color patch An autograph 20 out of 99 spot zero is going to jason gonzalez I go jason on the board I think i've hit for everybody at least So that's good Little drew jones 10 out of 99 patch autograph The last one Is for the rangers. It looks like anthony gutierrez to 99 Ending it off with yugin in the rangers sweet Nice nice case. I mean i think nothing's super jaw dropping but some really nice hits though guys I guess they can always do better the r&b though did extremely well guys I think I've got at least one something for everybody. It looks like at least I named everybody So some nice hits all of these going to the random number block guys a lot of nice hits like I said for 60 bucks It wasn't a bad deal Obviously some people hit a little bit more than others but seems like I've got something for everybody Then of course here. I mean, I don't know if I hit everything for everybody But some really nice hits though in general that last box to have the dominos and jason stars and stripes patch autograph is very nice The jace young right there right the evan carter tomar johnson jackson maryl randy johnson andy rodriguez Some nice stuff right there guys. So appreciate everybody again number eight in the store I'll leave it up there for maybe 15 minutes till six o'clock Then i'll random number block it again if you guys want to run it back jaspyscasebreaks.com guys. Thank you


First question is from Erika Olson. What are some good stretches to increase squat mobility? Oh, good timing for this question. I just, uh, I know I've been, I think I've said it already two or three times on the podcast and I've been getting, I should, I gotta be careful not to do this when I tell people something's coming or whatever.    But today, okay, it will already be up because it actually went up yesterday if you're listening on Thursday. So I just did a combat stretch to increase squat depth. Video, right? Yeah, video on that. And when I think of the, all the, cause there's, there's a lot of things that you can do and it's very individualized, right? So this is obviously this is, we're, we're speaking to specific issues that I've had, but I know that this is a very common in people. I would say this is probably a common in a majority of people who need to work on. I agree to. So that's why that's, which is why I started with this one first, because when I think of all the mobility drills and stretches that I did to improve my squat depth, by far, the combat stretch for my ankle mobility has been the biggest game changer. And so I did a video on that. And I would say the close second to that would be working on my hip mobility with the 90-90 variations. So the combination of those two for my lower body has been a game changer. I can definitely speak to the ankle mobility, especially watching too.  And let's see. And no problem, like super comfortable going all the way to depth and just completely highlighted the fact that the ankles were, you know, the limiting factor there. I used to think it was the hips and not to say that the hips don't play a role. It was definitely issues with people's hip mobility that causes them problems when they squat. But I used to think that that was most of the issue I have since changed my mind and realized that it's mostly ankle mobility issues. That's the problem. And you can test this yourself. So if you're listening to the podcast right now and you find that you have difficulty going to depth, try squatting while you're up on your toes and you'll find all of a sudden, boom, you hit the ground. No problem. This is why squat shoes or placing a block under the heels helps because when you lift the heels, my ankles don't have to flex as much. And so now I can go down lower. Well, this just goes to show you how much this is a common problem that something like squat shoes became a thing. I mean, if it wasn't common amongst almost everybody, it wouldn't have become something that's a standard piece of the tire you wear when you're squatting for max low. It's common because we almost never get our ankles in that position in regular everyday life.  Any kind of a heel. It's very common. Right. So running shoes even, tennis shoes, comfortable shoes, if you look at your shoe right now, like I have a pair on right now and I look down at them, I noticed that the heel is going to be a little bit higher off the ground than the front of my foot. Now, why is that? It's because shoe manufacturers have designed shoes around people's ankle mobility and it just feels more comfortable than a shoe that's completely flat. Now, women, if you wear high heels and you wear those a lot for work, even worse and you really start to, your body starts to form and shape around the way you move in everyday life. And so you lose ankle mobility. So the combat stretch done properly. So when we're going to attach that video to the show notes of this episode, watch and listen carefully because when you're doing a mobility movement like the combat stretch, intention is key. It's not just about going through the motion. Like you'll see Adam do it in the video. Don't just copy him, but pay attention to what he says and how you need to activate and where you need to pull up on the toes and how you... What's your knees doing in the whole process? That makes all the difference in the world. So I would say start with the ankles. Then I would say go up to the hips and work on, 90-90 is a great position because it works on what's known as internal and external rotation, meaning the front leg is turning out, the back leg is turning in or whatever. You can cover both bases that way. Yeah, and then you'll switch sides. And that'll help work on your hips ability to stabilize while you're squatting. And I think those two things in a majority of people, there's always individual variants, probably will be a good prescription. Agreed.