Life is about constant evolution. Always better today than we were yesterday. There are no shortcuts to a successful fitness regimen. Only hard work and consistency. And to navigate through the mountain of fitness advice available, candidates must learn to separate fad from function. I'm Daniel Fletcher. Welcome to the Only Easy Day was Yesterday, the official Navy SEAL podcast. In this extended series, we'll speak with select special warfare performance experts to clarify common training misconceptions and provide insight into areas of focus specifically important to special warfare candidates. Today, we extend our fitness series with a discussion about protein powders and supplements with performance dietitian Justin Robinson. Let's get started. Justin, first of all, thank you so much. Taking a little bit of time out of your day to sit and speak with us. We appreciate you being on the podcast. It's fun. Thank you. Yeah, it's been, I think a year or plus since we had you on episode 11. So if you guys are listening at home, you guys can go back and listen to episode 11 and hear your official intro and learn all about you. But just spend a couple of minutes to tell us a little bit about your history and what brought you to NSW and what your function is. So my background is pretty broad. I spent a lot of time in both strength and conditioning and sports nutrition. Going through school and after school, my bachelor's degree is a dual in nutrition and kinesiology. My master's degree is in exercise science. And so I was working at a sports performance center for a while and then the call came almost out of nowhere to interview with a professional baseball team. And so I took that route and spent a year working with Los Angeles Dodgers as their team dietitian. And then I taught for a while in college and then these opportunities in the military came up in 2015. And so I've been working here in this community since then and it's been an awesome experience. I learned something new every day here. Yeah, I think that's a cool part of your job focus is just being on the edge. You're constantly learning about the human body performance and it's just kind of an ongoing thing. It doesn't really stop, you know? Never and part of that is driven by my colleagues. So I'm part of a special operations forces dietitian working group. So there's about 40 of us across all branches of the military. Part of the learning is us driving each other and coming up with questions but the other component to that is this community and hence why we're doing these podcasts is that I get questions from students and operators every day and so they're constantly challenging me about new diet trends and new supplements and research studies. It's a very well educated population here so it keeps me going. Yeah, it's interesting because I think a lot of the guys that are in this community they are the types that would do their own research I think and try to seek their own path which it's seeking out professionals like you is obviously the smart thing to do. So we have a bit of a series we'd like to talk with you about a few specific misconceptions or big talking points in the community for prep in buds or even in a pipeline in general. We'll start out talking about protein powder and supplements because obviously that is a big broad topic and it's very common in exercise and performance. There's a huge widespread rich market of products that are in front of people all the time. How do you recommend recruits start navigating all these products out there and them versus eating clean real foods and how do you help people or how do you recommend people negotiate that balance? Great question and I'll tackle that from two aspects. So I will, you know, what they say CYA on my part you can look it up see exactly what that stands for in terms of what the students should do when they're here what they're allowed to do when they're here. So I'll tackle that and I'll discuss the student prepping for this program. So we do have a rather strict supplement policy and that is essentially no supplements at all once you are within Naval Special Warfare if you have a circumstance such as a stress fracture history then we can prescribe calcium or vitamin D if you have a food allergy we could probably prescribe something like a probiotic. So there are ways around that but your basic pre-workouts creatine anything that is a pill or powder is not allowed while you're a student here.  So one of my recommendations is if you know you are only allowed to have extra calories and extra protein from Whole Foods as you mentioned while you're here then a large portion of your training should consist of getting those calories getting the extra protein extra vitamins and minerals from nutrient dense and calorie dense food. So doing things like eating trail mix instead of chips instead of a salad maybe you have cooked vegetables because that's going to wilt it down you'll get more on your plate using olive oil or coconut oil in the foods that you eat to get some extra calories hard boiled eggs for example so getting your calories from there but I'm also a realist so I understand that a lot of the individuals prepping for this program probably have part-time jobs or still in school and are probably training twice a day and so if you're going from one training session to school or from school to job you might not have time to prepare meal and so grabbing a protein shake is a very convenient thing so my advice for when or why to take a supplement really comes down to convenience I do feel that whole food calories are better calories but we'll discuss recovery aspect in a little bit but I think you may not be able to get the calories that you need just from whole foods if you have such a busy hectic schedule especially if you're 18 or 19 maybe you're living in an apartment with some friends and it's just not there so definitely valid reasons to take a supplement Let's just talk about protein maybe just for a second I think that's probably one of the most popular powdered we'll say supplement that's really commonly used for good reason I think a lot of times as a kind of an add-on to an existing really well-rounded diet do you think that protein powder itself is wise to use in addition to whole food as in maybe you're not even able to take in enough protein throughout the day not necessarily for convenience but just for volume Yeah and to get an answer to all of these questions is it depends Yeah right It's the best response I can give for anything If we look at most Americans most Americans get enough protein if you are very very active you need more protein than the standard individual if you are prepping for a program such as this you probably need more protein and more total calories so most of more carbs and more fat than that really active person so yeah I think it is feasible to have all of your calories and all of your protein needs met from food but again I think it's a matter of do you have the time and the means to prepare all of that food the answer is no I think protein powders can be a very solid option when it comes to any supplements so whatever you do choose whether it be a creatine or a protein powder my first tip is get things that I call stripped down so a lot of times you'll see protein powder and it's part of a protein complex or like a weight gainer or something like that Exactly it's a weight gainer it's a pre-workout it's a post-workout and the ingredient list is a mile long like sugars and all kinds of other junk in there Exactly so one of my biggest things is make sure you know what you're putting into your body don't be naïve don't leave gray area in terms of what you're putting into your body and I'll talk about certification here in a moment but you hear all the time collegiate professional athletes they pop positive for a test and like oh well it must have been this protein powder that I was taking and so I'll still point the finger back at him and like well it's your body somebody may have handed you that shake but you still drank that and so don't be naïve The proprietary blend you read that word right? Yes, proprietary blends you don't know exactly what amounts are in a proprietary blend so the two major points take homes with supplementation whether it be a protein powder, pre-workout, post-workout one, know precisely what you're putting into your body the strip down take a protein powder that's just protein added flavor and really nothing else if you do take creatine it should say creatine and that simplistic approach That cuts out a lot of the products right there already Absolutely The second and most important is third-party tested supplements so the research is all over in terms of the contamination and tainted aspects of supplements and what I mean by that is some studies will say well there's 25% of products on the shelf at common health food or supplement stores are contaminated with something not on the label I've read another one that it's up to 75% so roughly if you split the difference roughly half of the products that you can purchase on the shelves at a grocery store even at a specialty store probably don't have in the bottle what's actually on the label Some residues or contaminations Exactly, that could be any number of things so it could be to the left end the not very dangerous spectrum Yeah, maybe there's not the exact amounts so it may say it's 25 grams of protein per scoop but it's actually 20 grams where that can get a little dangerous is maybe with some of the micronutrients things like iron, vitamin A some of the fat soluble vitamins that can maybe be toxic it may say it has 20 milligrams of something but it really has 40 it may have to the right end a more dangerous aspect of that spectrum it may be contaminated with anabolic steroids or amphetamines or maybe heavy metals as you talked about other residue so when you have a product that is third party certified and the primary organizations for that are NSF sport and informed choice it'll have that label on there you can check out those websites it'll list what products are verified that at very least assures that what you're taking is safe it may or may not work Yeah, you may have a few Yeah, there's somebody else looking at it Exactly the people that are selling it to you At the worst, you're wasting your money but you're not potentially wasting your kidneys or wasting your military career by having too much heavy metals in your system or popping positive on a test or hurting yourself or hurting yourself because we look at things like total caffeine intake and total caffeine intake should be less than 500 milligrams per day so if you're having a cup of coffee and an energy drink and a pre-workout if the pre-workout label says 150 milligrams but it really has 250 and you're doing two scoops of that now you're getting two 300 extra milligrams of caffeine Ripple and quadruple and you're recommended or yeah, max dose, right? Exactly and so you're being unaware of what you're putting into your body I think that's a really good kind of cornerstone just dig deeper past that page in the magazine that's the ad and find out what's really in there That's exactly a lot of people read the label on the front and don't spin around to the back to find out what's in there or try to find the stuff that's been tested Or the worst reason my buddy's really jacked and this is what he's taking so that's what I'm gonna take Yeah, right, right Let's talk about vitamins maybe for a minute What are some of the common nutritional deficiencies that you think people should actually be supplementing for if there are any? Good question and again, the CYA on my part is I have a hard time prescribing any individual vitamin or mineral without having some sort of a blood test first We look at those the one that comes up more often than not is vitamin D A lot of athletes especially people who are very active people who are training for a military special operations forces program such as this are typically deficient in vitamin D Or why is that? So it's not just a standard vitamin it's also a hormone in the body and because it's used in so many different processes I don't know the exact pathophysiology of it but because it's used in a number of different processes it's not just for bone health it's important in gut health it's important in other hormone regulations in the body especially in our community even though the guys are outside quite a bit they're usually wearing long sleeves and pants and covers and so that minimizes skin exposure to the sun depending on where you live if you are I forget the exact longitude number but if you're north of Denver area across the United States you have lower UV rate exposure and so that may increase your risk for vitamin D deficiency so I would say that would probably be one of the big ones calcium and iron we do see a little bit however I wouldn't prescribe iron especially without that iron panel because iron can be toxic in the liver So yeah maybe a multivitamin vitamin D right? yes yeah there's if people talk about it it's great for insurance so I have no problem somebody wants to take a multivitamin but there's been zero conclusive evidence that taking a multivitamin really does anything for performance or even for our immune function so people will say oh well take a multivitamin because you won't get sick as often or it'll improve your strength or performance or recovery there's really no evidence to support that however there's really no evidence to say that a multivitamin is dangerous or bad for you or bad for you outside of taking something that is not third party tested that may have other contaminants in it so if you go to again a popular health food store a lot of the times they'll have the men's pack multivitamin and it doesn't just have vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D it'll have an herbal tons of stuff in there extract pill it'll have this and that and going back to what I mentioned with supplements not matching the label not matching the product the biggest culprit of those are herbal supplements so things like ginkgo and ginseng those are really all over the place in terms of not matching that again the 250 milligrams of whatever it says that amount not being in the bottle how do you recommend people decipher between a high quality vitamin and something that isn't I mean is it just based on price where do you start with that? to some extent yes I do think you get what you pay for but the caveat to that is there are a lot of overpriced products so I probably would not go to a dollar store to buy my vitamins I would say it goes back to making sure that it's third party tested a friend of mine who works with the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee she has a two step process step one is it third party tested if the answer is no you stop right there and you don't even go to that and I like that approach so again that affects more of the safety as opposed to the efficacy of that but most third party supplements are at least above average in terms of quality and the other caveat is that even if a supplement touts that it is a very high quality compared to food pills and powders are still pretty pills especially are pretty poorly absorbed so even a highly bio available supplement is still not as highly bio available as food so with vitamin D you mentioned being remotely commonly deficient in people I guess kind of a broad stroke what can people do to give themselves exposure or what foods to eat to kind of cover that base if that's possible sure and that's the thing vitamin D is pretty tough to get from the diet mushrooms are one of the only natural sources we talk about dairy products but that vitamin D is added a lot of the times to those products but they are in dairy products so again I'll go back to the same analogy of making sure that your supplements are stripped down I would say the truth also applies to most foods so things like yogurt and milk I'm actually a bigger fan of Greek style whole fat yogurt whole fat milk it's less processed looking for products that maybe have less added sugar so the whole fat natural grass fed if you can afford it dairy products outside of that it's really fortified foods so you might see things like orange juice that have calcium and vitamin D added to them but it really is tough to come by in a lot of foods if you like things like anchovies and sardines that have little fish that have the bones in it you can get some of the vitamin D and calcium from consuming those bones bone broth probably has which my grandma used to just call chicken stock but now it has it's fancy now right it's fancy now exactly getting some of the nutrients from leaching the calcium out of some of the foods there sun exposure as 5 to 10 minutes of mostly body exposure or maybe 15 to 20 minutes of partial body exposure again depending on what part of the country you live in or part of the world you live in should be enough I don't have any problem with people supplementing a thousand I use per day again this is Justin and you're talking about vitamin D here this is just vitamin D aren't there like a few different vitamin D's like different numbers vitamin D3 or there's 11 2 and 3 2 and 3 so there's D2 and D3 D2 is from non animal sources so plant based so if somebody is a vegan they will probably only choose vitamin D2 so if you have an almond milk or flaxseed milk soy milk that has vitamin D added to it that's actually going to be vitamin D2 which going back to the bioavailability or how absorbable the nutrient is vitamin D2 is less bioavailable than D3 D3 is derived from an animal source so regular milk or yogurt is going to have that D3 and most vitamin D supplements that come in bottles are going to be D3 again if you're vegan or vegetarian you may need to consider that when selecting that supplement gotcha let's go back to that moment when you're between meals and you're trying to get a workout in and you know you're kind of walking into it with an empty stomach or not feeling 100% because your blood sugar is low there's a lot of different packaged products whether it's like bars we talked about protein shakes what can you recommend people either like steer towards or maybe avoid obviously there's some things that are just going to be like sugar products you know exactly I think that certain people maybe gravitate towards certain types of protein whether it's a whey protein versus an egg protein or something like that you're talking about the bioavailability of vitamin D3 one being more absorbable or faster absorbing than others in the protein spectrum is that the same is everyone different or maybe you can unpack that a little bit that's a lot to unpack but yes so to answer the first part of the question the simple message I give is that if it's two to four hours before a heavy workout that's when you want more sustained energy and that's going to come from a combination of a carb fat and a protein and beyond that it really does depend on what works for you and for your stomach quick example a lot of people love bananas because they're high potassium I love bananas as a snack but I know that if I eat a banana within two hours of workout it gives me indigestion but that's something that I've only learned from years of training and racing and just learning that about my body so trial and error I think is a huge component to know what works for you and for your body the other side to that is if you're within an hour 30 to 60 minutes of workout that's where you want a more carbohydrate based meal or snack and that's where a lot of the sugary products sometimes do come in gels, goose, sports drinks that are all sugar those are fine I think if it's timed right around activity and yes is something like water down orange juice probably better than a sports drink in terms of your overall health yes but is a sports drink effective in providing fluid carbohydrate and electrolytes absolutely so it meets that bill I think the thing that you mentioned earlier about testing knowing your sources reading the ingredients kind of doing a little deeper examination of products is that the same thing you'd recommend for diet bars or nutritional bars or meal replacement bars and those products are a plenty right now there are different ones with different targets I think when it comes to the bars the meal replacement options again it depends what is your goal what is your purpose of consuming that are you trying to get extra calories are you trying to get extra protein so I'm still a fan of diet quality over the macro content of the food so can you explain that a little bit absolutely so the macro content macro nutrients carbohydrates protein and fat we have a tendency when we look at products to get the ones that have the most protein and the lowest sugar and it's not that high protein low sugar is unhealthy that's a great way to eat this is a little empty is what you're saying exactly we know that sugar fat and salt all taste really good and so if you take one of those products away you have to add more of something else to it so a lot of the sugar-free foods are high in fat and again not that high fat is wrong but I just want to make sure that people are not naive about what they're putting into their bodies and that sugar-free or low carb is not necessarily low calorie so if your weight loss is a goal that may not be the best approach if they don't add fat they maybe add something artificial to it so a lot of the times in protein bars specifically they'll add a lot of sugar alcohols and we discussed doing what's right for your body sugar alcohols take longer to digest and some people have digestive issues with high amounts of sugar alcohols so you may wonder why alright I ate this bar and I was gassy and bloated well that's the 15 grams of sugar alcohols in there I'm still a fan of looking at the ingredients list and we mentioned this in the previous talk that the fewer the ingredients the better a whole food approach is better if the ingredients are actual foods and not chemistry words that's still what I look for so I do have a tendency to skip the grams of protein and grams of sugar and I go almost directly to the ingredients it's food and that's what I think we need to put into our bodies we don't have time to get into gut health but the short answer to that is artificial colors flavors artificial sweeteners may negatively impact gut health and so the whole gut microbiome discussion in five years and 10 years we're gonna have really a lot of discussion about this because we're just kind of getting the data back finally you just the very very tip of it now but it's related to our sleep it's related to our immune system it's related to weight gain and weight loss and appetite so if we are constantly pumping our bodies full of artificial ingredients yes we may be cutting down on our calories or increasing protein or cutting down on sugar but at what cost and so the major concept now is lower calories not necessarily the best way to lose weight I believe that performance weight loss overall health comes from higher quality of food and more real food as often as you can I think that's a really great note to end on look at your ingredients eat as much whole food as possible and only rely on these when you really really are in a pinch exactly and plan ahead if you know that you're going from school to work to a training session then yeah pack trail mix pack a bar to pack a protein shake that has a nutrition facts label or is a third party tested protein shake and that has again those simple ingredients inside of it and then that way you don't come home at six o'clock a night and over eat on unhealthy food because you have no willpower because it's been four hours since you've eaten and you've been expending all this energy so yes you're absolutely right I think planning ahead is an aspect that I would had to that has an enormous amount of benefit awesome thank you so much for talking with us about absolutely protein powder supplements and all this stuff thank you find out more at sealswick dot com and join us again for the next NSW podcast


Welcome back everybody. I have another embolism-inducing clip for you today from The Spew. But first I'd like you to hit that like button, subscribe to this channel, and hit that bell notification so you can be notified about all my new content. Reporters, I'm very happy that there was a request from the White House to get press briefing questions in advance. And it has them raising red flags about the Biden administration's promise of total transparency according to the Daily Beast. Does it occur to anybody they've been in probably for three weeks and they might not have all the answers? All the answers are, call me crazy. So hilarious! Yeah, you're crazy. We're talking about presidential transparency here and she can barely keep herself from cracking up laughing. So Will Bees' excuse here for the Biden regime's lack of transparency is that it's only been three weeks. It's only been three weeks. Okay. Alright, so let's look at what the press conferences were like three weeks into the Trump administration. Yes, I believe that we have to be honest with the American people. I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts. I mean, just the other day, he sat down with Martin Luther King, Jr. I would call him a civil rights leader, where his dad was the third. Well, I think this one, you get one point. That's a, you're basically, okay, Kristen, we're going to end this right here. Hunter, Hunter, Hunter, no. And then this one is the, I've got the 13 here as well, or the 2017. It is literally 100% the same. Well, first of all, it's not a travel. He's using the words that the media is using. But at the end of the day, it can't, hold on, hold on, it can't be, it can't work as extreme. I don't, I mean, that's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Okay, this is silly. Okay, next. Okay, you don't get to just yell out questions.  It's kind of crazy watching that now, only a couple weeks into the Trump administration. And the press, we're in a complete frenzy. Whereas now they're almost like docile sheep. So, whoopi's excuse here has no merit. This episode brought to you by Virtual Shield VPN. With the authoritarian left cracking down on free speech, there's never been a better time to use a VPN. There's suggestions that our credit scores might be based on our internet history in the near future. The same way that banks use data like income to judge credit eligibility now is how websites could use internet search history in the near future. I will not let my internet history be the judge of my credit score. That's why I use Virtual Shield. Just go to the link in the description and pin comment and get Virtual Shield for 50% off today. Alright, were you freaked out by that? No. No. No, she's not freaked out by that. Now, of course she's not bothered by it.   It was all he was saying was there's this one thing that they did and American voters don't understand nuance. They hear communism. By the way, that literacy program that he was talking about was a reeducation program. There's a big difference. I believe the literacy rate did jump quite a bit after that. I'm not sure they were getting a really good dose of world history. Nobody takes anything that these women say seriously, right? I mean, but if that's true, how has it gone on for so long? This show has been running for like three decades now. Why are their ratings soaring? They're a bunch of communists who got rich thanks to capitalism who are now protecting and promoting what increasingly looks like everything they've claimed to be against. It's supposed to be informative information questions and answers. And so it behooves the administration to be prepared to give the correct information. Jen, what's her name? Saki? Jen Saki. She can't know everything, you know? And by the way, this idea that she could come up with spin, I think the report is quite aware of when someone is spinning and when they're not. Oh, I think I just had nimbleism. I mean, that is literally, and I'm sorry I keep saying literally, but it is literally the press secretary's job to spin. But Biden doesn't even need a press secretary because the media is already out there spinning for him, whether it's mostly peaceful protests that are burning down cities and attacking innocent people, or that videos of Biden having these cognitive meltdowns that are actually the work of manipulated videos. The media actually came out and said that. Their job is clear, and it's anything but journalism. I mean, this very idea that we could just trust Jen Saki when she's a known liar. She lied about the Muslim ban multiple times. There's never been a Muslim ban. There's never been a ban that banned all Muslims from entering this country. It never happened. She lied about a YouTube video being to blame for Benghazi. And when it came out that that was a lie, that it was not true, that a YouTube video was to blame, she blamed the CIA for putting out that excuse when in fact the CIA ended up saying no, it wasn't us. And it turned out that that excuse came from the State Department for which she was a spokesperson for. Who knows what else she's lying about because there's literally zero accountability in the Democrat Party state media. You all know she works for CNN when Trump got into office. It's the revolving door that we're always talking about. She went from the Obama administration to CNN, and then right back to the White House. We're talking about, we're coming from the mooch, Sarah Huckabee, and Kayleigh McEnany, the liar in chief, you know, press secretary. So, so we're in a whole new world. And so they just repeated that over and over. The Biden administration has given us, I think it's just a breath of fresh air. So the fact that they're asking for, you know, area, topic areas or even questions, I still think we're in a much better place in terms of transparency. Of course, because it's her guy in office now. So even though he's clearly not being transparent, I mean, we already know he's not. That's what the initial story was all about. Oh, but it's a Democrat. So we could just, just breathe in that fresh air. I mean, the truth is that the press has just stopped torturing the public on a 24 seven basis. When a Republican is in, the public is punished day in, day out. Then when the Democrat inevitably gets back in, suddenly all the reporting becomes optimistic and cheerful. It's that fresh air she's talking about.  When she wasn't working in politics, she worked for CNN as a DNC propagandist. Now she's back to basically doing the exact same thing. And lastly, the idea that the Joe Biden administration is going to be transparent with the media is laughable. The last time that Biden was in the White House, there were a record number of reporters and journalists who were put in prison under the espionage act. It's easy to forget because the media allows it to be forgotten. But Obama also spied on reporters at Fox News and at the Associated Press. Maybe Democrats feel free to abuse the press because the press is so willing to let it happen. That's why you have folks like me, for now anyway, to continue exposing these corrupt hacks for who they are. If you want to follow me on some of the alternate platforms or support this channel, you can find all those links in the description or pinned comment. Thanks for watching. Keep coming back.


From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2020, virtual, brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is the KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2020, the Europe Virtual Edition. Happy to welcome back to the program, fresh off the keynote stage, Priyanka Sharma. She's the general manager of the CNCF. Priyanka, thanks so much for joining us. Great to see you and we all get to be together even while we're apart. That's absolutely right. Thank you so much for having me Stu and great energy in the interrupts today with my keynote and everybody engaging and attending KubeCon, so very happy to be here. All right, so I want to dig into your keynote a little bit. I had a bunch of key themes, a lot of pieces and of course, community at the heart of it. When I spoke with you, when you first took the job, of course, you've got strong background. You know this community really well. We've loved covering it for the last five years but you talked about the foundation of doers and how that's powering the end user driven open source. So talk to us a little bit about that. How is this community different from, everything else, open source always is community but this feels a little bit special. Well, I'm glad to hear you say that, it is special. Yes, so when you think about the cloud native ecosystem, right? There's so many people who come together to create this amazing field that we all get, to create the awesome technology that people use to be part of this whole technology creation and deployment process. Those people are the end users first and foremost. They utilize the technology every day and as time has grown, as time has gone by, they have played a bigger and bigger role. Over time, they've become very sophisticated.  But there's many more like Spotify and Wayfair, the furniture company. They have all submitted projects for the sandbox. So there's a lot of momentum but not only are they creating their own technologies where needed and donating them, they're becoming the guides for the project that exists. They're giving feedback, they're sharing requirements. It's a very collaborative process and that's what is end user driven open source. Now, this end user driven open source cannot happen by one contributor alone, by one maintainer alone, by one company. No, it takes a lot of people. I mean, CNCF, as you know, has invested in its global community since day one. That's why we have the KubeCon EU, we have China events, we have North America. And just the other day, I was speaking on a virtual Brazil event. There's just, the geographic diversity is amazing. And by being able to reach out to a very large ecosystem and by especially having a formal role for end users by having an end user member program with their own special interest groups and working groups, we've created a safe space where there is a neutral IP zone, open governance, and also a clear directive and shared partnership with the end users. So that ends up being a large group of people who are all doers, everybody's collaboration matters and together they create end user driven open source. Well, and Prank, I'm not sure that most people understand really the full charter of what the CNCF does. So maybe you could talk a little bit about, obviously there's all the projects involved, you just brought up some of the end users and how you get engaged. There's also help along career development when you talk to the individual developers and participants. So help us understand, you know, beyond the big events that we gather people that even some of the smaller events, just what the CNCF sees its charter as these days. Absolutely. So as some of you know, the CNCF stands for CloudMute Native Computing Foundation. And our objective is to host and proliferate technologies that support development, infrastructure development that is cloud native. Now, what does cloud native mean? Cloud native is when you develop, when you utilize cloud computing, which is the big clouds you must have heard of, such as Alibaba Cloud, AWS, Google Cloud Platform, Azure, IBM, all these hyperscalers, they provide these offerings by which you don't need to have your own server farm and you can buy compute from them and run your applications on that. When you do that, the way you develop software changes, it should change in order to maximize the value you get. So you start developing with microservices, containerization happens. Once that happens, you need to orchestrate the containers, which is where Kubernetes, our founding project comes in. And then you go from there because you have different complexities and observability, you have different complexities and storage and all the cloud native tech comes together to support you in that journey. So from a technology perspective, that's what we do. As we have been so fortunate to develop this large ecosystem with so many people joining in of all kinds, we believe it is part of our responsibility to support this community in skill development and always knowledge sharing. So knowledge sharing, community empowers education and that's why we talked about the events, right? Like QCon, et cetera. But also these days, we are focusing a lot on our training programs with the certifications we offer, such as CKA, which stands for Certified Kubernetes Admin, and CCAD, which stands for Certified Kubernetes Application Developer. To date, 15,000 plus people have taken these certifications successfully. So we have more and more people joining in these ranks and we're here to support people as they build their careers, as they get more knowledgeable on cloud native, from informal ways, such as training and third, and in informal ways, such as the QCONs and the meetups and the webinars, you name it and we're here for you. Well, you used a word that I want to touch on, responsibility. Obviously in 2020, there's a lot going on, Priyanka. So first of all, you talk about the global pandemic, some of my favorite interviews I've done for the shows and others, talking about how open source and communities are contributing to it. One of the interviews I have coming up for the QCON show is out of the Toronto area with How's My Flattening, which uses data and visualization, really phenomenal to see how Kubernetes and collaboration allow people to rally fast and share data and get information to the right people. The other piece is social justice. You announced a new working group for racial terminology. Talk about how's the CNCF dealing with all the changes and all the things that are happening in 2020 and how are you helping the community get engaged and participate? Absolutely. 2020 is a very unique year. It's had very unique challenges. We've all been through it together as a global community. So in that way, it has brought us all together. But the fissures and cracks that maybe were overlooked before have gotten deeper this year. And we are committed to bringing the open source, cloud-needed way to help support this whole global push to overcome 2020 as a year. So part of that, as I said, as you said, we have a working group to eradicate racially charged, sorry. I am really not speaking well today. So part of our initiatives is a working group to eradicate racially charged terminology from code. We're working on it, not just on the CNCF level, but on the entire Linux foundation level. We're bringing together various folks such as companies, projects, regardless of where they sit. They don't need to be an LF project or a CNCF project, but we're sharing best practices on what should be the terminology we agree upon. What is the change management look like? And soon we want to really encourage the people who are making these positive steps with an enablement and incentive program, such as prizes, et cetera. So I'm very committed to this. I think anyone and everyone has a home in open source. This cannot be the take ground of one type of person or one type of community. And we're going to do our very best to welcome each and everyone. This world of technology has been built by the blood, sweat, and tears of many people and we honor them all. And we also open our arms to more and more of you, no matter how few people from your ecosystem or community you see in open source. Join in, we welcome you, we're here for you. And this working group and this initiative hopes to voice exactly just that. Well, yeah, the KubeCon's absolutely, I can speak from the events I've gone to. Strong diversity, we've really appreciated being able to hear those voices. When you talk about the collaboration, the community activity, we love when we can help support those from our team standpoint when we can. We want to be able to help those nonprofits, help those communities get their messages and do their call to actions. All right, Priyanka, so much to cover. This week, when I look at all the breakouts, when I look at the interviews and the technologies, there's a lot of emerging themes also. Edge computing's been something we've been talking about for the last year or two. Of course, IoT, DevSecOps, what are some of the hot technologies that you're seeing and making sure that the show covers? Well, you said them all. No, but these are the key themes, yes, absolutely. As you know, devices are proliferating across the globe. So many people have cell phones, but the coming of 5G things will be even more rocket ship. And these folks need to go cloud native to support development as this change happens and Kubernetes and CNCF is here here to support. We have projects such as Q-Bedge, we have K3S from Rancher and the Sandbox. All these are meant for edge deployment. So there's that focus that we have. There's always going to be DevSecOps. The minute there is this complexity, the minute there's this growth, new security vulnerabilities pop up, new interfaces become exposed. And so we have to be on a constant watch. So DevSecOps is a theme that we are going to see a lot of innovation and development in. For anyone who may not be familiar with DevSecOps, DevSecOps does for security what DevOps did for operations, which is shifted left into the developer, application developers workflow, so that things are caught faster, so that there's a better collaboration between security teams and application development team. So these are absolutely trends. I think a trend we briefly touched upon is end user driven open source. I think the voice of end users is going to grow bigger and more louder and just that much more critical. The ship has left the dock and now it's just going to gain steam and gain steam. I think we're going to see more technology contributions from them. We're going to see much more utilization of cloud native from them. And we also will get lots of feedback and advice from them. And they'll be, it's woven into the fabric of cloud native in a way like never before. Yeah, Priyanka, you've known this community, but now you're very steeped into it. You have to work with a lot of people. I'm curious just anything, especially from those end users, big focus of what you've been talking about absolutely is so important that they not just use the technology but are participating in it. It's been one of those big waves we've been watching in the open source community for a number of years. So any insight you can give us as to why it is so important to those end users, what is encouraging them, not just to use these projects, but assign people and sponsor events and have much deeper integration with this community. They don't integrate with this community. They are part of this community. That's one key thing to remember. I would say when we all, like I mean, CNCF is relatively young. It started at the end of 2015. I started working on a project in it in 2016. And back then we were talking about things like what are microservices? How to do a lift and shift to the cloud or what are containers, things like that, right? And there was maybe a bit of a gap in the knowledge that people had to acquire to get good at deploying containers, that using microservices, et cetera, et cetera. Now in the last four years, huge leaps have been made by end users just because they were in the trenches. They were doing the work, right? So now their knowledge level has gone really up and they've also started direct knowing, right? Where the gaps are, what they need because they're doing the building. They're the doers here. And so in that environment, it is a natural thing that they will have the best sense of where things should go next. They will have the best sense of what their own requirements are. And so it's an evolution of our end user community. It's an evolution of the doers. And I think that's why this trend is going to continue. And I would like to take not a credit, but I would say a tiny shout out to the CNCF ecosystem program, which is run by Cheryl on my team. She's done a phenomenal job having been a developer herself to bring people in, create safe spaces where the enhancers or the vendors are not necessarily breathing down their neck. And they can discuss amongst each other the topics that matter. And I think that's gone a really long way. Yeah, Cheryl's been doing some great work. I know I'm having a conversation with Liz Rice to talk about some of the new tooling, helping customers understand. It's such a broad ecosystem out there that we didn't even touch on. We're going to talk in many of the other interviews I have, Brianka, just so many projects, new ways for sandbox and incubation and everything like that. It is definitely a challenge for everybody to look at this space. I want to give you the final word though. What do you want people to have as their takeaway from the event this month? Absolutely. Hi everybody, I am so happy. You all took the time and engaged with the community. You joined in and attended KubeCon, you virtual, stay with us, keep partnering with us, come to our events, give us feedback, share ideas. We're all a foundation of doers. We're all team cloud native. And we're in this together. We will go through 2020, we'll come out strong and this is just the beginning. Well, Priyanka, thank you so much. We love the partnership with the CNCF and definitely happy to be able to participate in the event again this year. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Stu. All right, and stay tuned. Lots of coverage here from KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2020, Europe, the virtual edition. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you as always for watching theCUBE.


Well, I have a very tiny arrow here, so I will try to point at this very tiny arrow when we go Now Hello everybody Welcome to EuroPython 2023 and this is the 22nd of EuroPython so Many people here I hope are actually the first time in EuroPython and I thought perhaps we can talk about What is EuroPython? Well, the EuroPython conference series are organized by the EuroPython society and we are a team of passionate volunteers and we are very proud to be the oldest and longest-running Volunteer-led Python conference in the entire world And you might say the oldest how old exactly Well, here's a sneaky peek of how it looked like in 2002 and Then in 2012 2020 and now So with our long history EuroPython is a treasure trove of knowledge and this is a testament of how Python has evolved and This is also a love letter to our community So just like the Python language EuroPython is always evolving Striving to reflect the ever-evolving spirit of our community So our conference is built by an incredible group of volunteers from diverse backgrounds Cultures and interests and we're all united by our passion for our community We celebrate our differences and we embrace them with open arms No matter where you find yourself no matter where you come from Whether you're an experienced or you just started whether you're a student a professional Enthusiast whether you are local or you come far from Across the globe where you're looking to network or just soaking up new knowledge And whether you're shy or you're outgoing you're feeling like a superstar or an imposter or both You are in the right place So get settled and get comfy So what have we actually prepared for you for EuroPython 2023? now after two incredible Tutorial days we're entering the main conference days and That will be followed by the sprints weekend The main conference days will feature about 140 talks at the end of most talks There will be five minutes of Q&A and that will be open to both in-person and remote participants and Some speakers might not do a live Q&A, but you're very welcome to catch them in the hallway I thought this might be also a good opportunity to remind people. What is a question? Well, a question is not a comment A question is a chance to clarify something that you didn't quite catch It's a chance to ask for more details So if you want a more in-depth discussion with the speakers You're very very welcome to do so in the hallway track and Another place for in-depth discussions is in the open space and that is located in the south room 221 and 222 we will have a posted board at the registration area for visibility So you can go there and propose a topic and have a wonderful discussions with like-minded people So the open space is reserved for a few other sessions So on Thursday morning, there's three back-to-back community sessions If you're interested in how the Euro-Python society is organized and run you're welcome to join the open EPS session and If you are a Python community organizer, you're also welcome to join afterwards to share your experiences and knowledge and At the end there will be a PSF session presented by Deb Nicholson from who is the executive director of PSF and On Thursday afternoon, the open space is also reserved for an hour To have a on-conference discussion about the cyber resilience act that is followed by the panel discussion at the forum hall here And so on Friday morning, there will be a mentor sprint in the open space and We this is a really good opportunity to show new beginners the ropes of how to sprint and How to use git and the open source contribution workflow? so this year's participating projects have scikit-learn beware Pyscript and you and after the main conference days will have the sprint weekend and This year the sprint will not happen in the same building So don't come here during the weekend and this the sprint will happen in Rajka Gishkoff campus at Visya campus, which is the Prague University of economics and business So you're very welcome to already propose a sprint if you haven't you can open a pull request on our website and Of course, you can you do not have to register another ticket. You're in person ticket already include the sprints so just come by and join any sprints project that you like and Apart from the main event and the main program this year. We also have a full packed events So if you are a community organizer, you're very welcome to join us on Thursday on the same level for lunch It would be on in the congress hall four or two C. You will know where it is when you see it And then on Friday, we will dedicate the entire day to pie ladies So if you're a pie lady on Friday lunch, you're welcome to join us in the same area and then On Friday evening, you're welcome to join us for pie ladies social at this venue very close here It's about five ten minutes of walk in the same place tonight. If you have time, please join us in For the Prague people. This is a Prague community meetup It would just be very chilled and grill and let's connect there And of course, there is the Europe high some official social event on Thursday and The content and the program of the social event has already been on our website for a while But I know that everybody is looking for when the ticket sales was open. Well, it is right after Petrus kilo talk and so This year we will have two hundred tickets available. So right after take Petrus talk You can go to our ticket shop and buy them and The ticket price for this year's social event will be 22 euros The ticket holders will be given a blue wrist wristband at some point you will get an email and know how to collect them and Also, we have a video game tournament this year So this is a video game designed to be played by a small Python program And you're welcome to each submit a bot that will play this game And at the end of the conference will have a tournament session in the open space on Friday afternoon So this game is designed by Neil who will be giving you a lightning talk later on to introduce you with more details But you can already use this qr code to to check how the instructions and get started and And also see you at the tournament of course and Many of you probably have already joined our discord Community if you haven't please do so because this is a really great opportunity to ask more questions after the talks to speakers and Also, you can follow the announcement and get help from the organizers and Of course It's also a very good way to extend the hallway track to find people who are interested in the same things And also, of course coordinates get-togethers and lunch plans and dinner. Well, we cover lunch So eat here, but dinner plans. We don't cover. So please use the score to coordinate and have a good time This is a good opportunity to applaud because we're gonna talk about code of conduct But this is something very important Of course when people get together we need to agree on how we behave towards each other So you all have agreed to our code of conduct when you brought your tickets And if you see something or experience something that you feel uncomfortable with will you think that might be a coc violation? please let us know and this also includes the discord discussions because we want to Make every feel everyone feel safe in every Europe Python related environment and If you you can find the full list of contact information on their website So if you email coc at your opython.e you this will go to every single coc committee member But if you want to reach out to a specific coc committee member You can go to our website and check out everyone's contact contact details and Now I would really like to take the opportunity to thank all of our sponsors We have so many sponsors who have been supporting us for a long time and some as long as a decade So this year we also have a few new supporters. I Want to say every sponsor you are part of our community and Without you this conference would have been less affordable and less fun So please give a round of applause to all of our sponsors and Right outside. There is the exhibit hall. So please Visit their booth and talk to them and find out the wonderful things that they are doing and Apart from the main booth this year We have quite a few open source community tables in the same area in exhibit hall So we are inviting the Czech Python community the Python software foundation Jungle software foundation Python APAC non-focus Python sports project critics and visa and you will go there and you will meet all of them and talk about the wonderful projects and community work they do and So finally what is EuroPython or EuroPython is it's for you and to help you feel more comfortable We have several different facilities prepared And so we have the social distancing stickers so so so you can indicate your comfort level of physical contact We also have the pronoun stickers for you to grab There is of course the quiet room if you need peace and low Stimulus the quiet room is located in south room two to three and two to four and Please keep the but so the back of the room has its carton pulled down That's on purpose to reduce the stimulus So please do not pull the carton up at the back if you need more light in the quiet room Just use the front area because that has the cartons pulled up And so this year we have welcomed Many many small children in our childcare rooms 247 and 248 You will probably pass them by when you walk around and please say hello and don't step on them Because they're crawling in the hallway, so be careful, but the nannies will take care of it as well We also have sanitary products in the toilet so take whatever you need and do reminders when they run out and Lastly, I want to remind people that We everyone please be compassionate and do not make assumptions too quickly if people appear to be rude for example because they don't adhere to any specific social convention because they don't exchange eye contact for example Always consider that there might be another possibility give them a chance to know them and Don't jump into conclusions too fast And lastly the secret to having a lovely Euro Python when the main organizers do not know much about the local community and culture is to have local pie ladies So very soon I'm going to pass the floor to a local pie lady Mia to welcome you to Prague And I am Raquel. I'm the chair of Euro Python society, and I'm a socially awkward Asian Euro divergence female So let's make this conference for you. Let's make this conference for me. I'm for everybody here So I hope you will feel welcome and be yourself and enjoy the conference Thank you. And now let's welcome Mia to welcome you to Prague. Thank you everyone I Amia I moved to Prague seven years ago, and I immediately fell in love with it It is my pleasure to welcome you to our beautiful city right at the beginning of our conference I hope you will fall in love with the city as much as I have Prague known as the city of a hundred spires is one of the most visited cities in Europe as it showcases our remarkable range of architectural styles Including Gothic Renaissance Baroque and art nouveau It is worth noting that the city has around a thousand towers painting and impressive skyline As you stand on one of Prague's picturesque bridges the Charles Bridge Witness the lively rhythm of the city Intersecting with a quiet flow of the river Vltava Just like Smetana symphonic poem also named Vltava the river flows with inspiration both musically and visually for locals and visitors alike Prague is a vibrant hub of arts and culture offering a wide range of artistic Experiences for visitors to explore and enjoy Discover work-class museums like the National Gallery and the dog Center for contemporary art be enchanted by performances as a Prague State Opera and the National Theatre or Uncovered a hidden world of underground art neighborhoods like Žiško or Holášovice adding an alternative touch to Prague's artistic scene Gregor grab a coffee at the house of the black Madonna a masterpiece of cubist architecture in Prague The city that squarely hosts an impressive 90% of all cubist architecture in the whole world Come with me up to hill to Visehrad the ancient fortress Located just a few hundred meters from this venue Take the opportunity to taste check-pills in a beer sit back and watch the sunset behind the Prague castle While reading a famous novel by Čapek where you can find the first mention of the word robot I am a proud member of the Czech Python community. I Co-organized Prague Python meet-ups and pycon CZ in the Czech Republic There happens to be a large Python community that loves to get together Therefore we have many events where people meet and exchange their ideas The beginnings of the Czech Python community date back to the year 2002 however the first meet-up started in 2011 in Prague in Brno When a lot of fans of Python started gathering at Ruby on rails meet-ups and they decided to found ones for Python The biggest motivation except for people wanting to spend some time together Was Euro Python for Euro Python to happen in Prague There will have to be a local community So people started gathering in hope that one day we will be able to host such a wonderful Conference like this one in the meantime Python meet-up spread to other cities and nowadays we have meet-ups in six cities across the country and today after 12 long years of waiting we have Euro Python in Prague years after the first meet-ups in 2013 a group of individuals decided to spread knowledge and make our community more diverse and so check by ladies Founded nowadays there are piloted courses running in six cities across the country Ranging from beginner to intermediate ones in addition There are bi-weekly pi working session for those that need help with a project and for those who would like to help beginners with their Assignments as a result Nowadays we have more than one fifth of women attending our pike and conferences and though we still have a way to go Two out of five members of our non-profits board are women and this year for the first time in history We have the majority of women organizing pike But most importantly we are making the IT world more accessible Through teaching we are empowering others not only to expand their knowledge But also to develop a passion for the world of computers Two years after the first by ladies this community gathered together and is and decided to organize a conference to spread knowledge and welcome more people on board our first pike can happen in 2015 following other pikens in 20 16 17 18 19 and with another one coming this September


Sorry about that. I'm trying to get packed up, uh Sorry, I didn't I didn't realize I was recording this but I guess we're recording this now this video has been a long time coming and I put it off because It's serious and I usually don't post serious videos, but at some point There's only so many really videos I have left after after everything that happened a couple years ago with You guys remember We used to do auction series So I sort of made a video about that on my third I guess third channel now my rex and live channel Talking about what happened None of that was true. I said it was no big deal. It's mutual. I Wasn't the case I Get I can I can I could go on about that for a long time About how that went, you know, a lot of people were disappointed Me included Maybe I'll get into it later, but not that important. So fast forward, you know auction series is gone we're still making opening videos and stuff and It's just not just You know things are just kind of You know, they're fine We did some things we opened some packs Recorded some videos whatever last year We did a pretty cool collab with MBT, which was pretty great. I did the 10-minute testing video petite moth really cool People loved it, but this year, I mean you see right? I mean petite moth There's nothing. There's no petite moth There's no auction series Even guess that price I mean guess that price we had all kinds of awesome people that were on the show. There's all kinds of awesome guests Gave way up to a thousand dollars once It was crazy pack one, you know got like every question basically exactly right But even then just didn't work out so that leaves us in the spot we're in which is auction series Failure guess that price It's a failure MBT collab One one hit wonder one and done so What do I do from here? I mean we've Keep opening packs. I mean we could But The thing is it's like I keep opening packs of Yu-Gi-Oh But there's other things that are more interesting like There I say it Pokemon Pokemon, but if I open Pokemon, it's like ah You guys don't care about that But what if I what if I want to open Pokemon? What if I want to open Magic though You guys have seen how that has gone before but we've had a couple videos recently that have been better What if I want to open something new like a lesterles lesterles sent me a really cool box? How can I do it on this channel I probably can't and What does what does that mean for this channel? You know Yu-Gi-Oh series. They're going down in flames no more auction series the best series YouTube history I mean even the number one my number one series reacting to the band list You know done it a few times It's been done Can it's can we keep doing it? Can we keep doing can we keep doing? Reacting in banless openings I don't know. I don't know Maybe maybe it's time to to move on to move on to Pokemon To move on to something new like a lesterles. Maybe some one piece and just It's hard to do it on this channel So maybe Maybe it's time that I You know we done. What have we done? Over three years three years of every day on this channel Posted in the exact At the exact time 12 o'clock most of time You know we've done Yu-Gi-Oh for over a thousand days straight and maybe you guys just are tired of it Maybe you're ready for something else or maybe I'm ready for something else maybe both and If I'm gonna be doing something like that. I can't stay where I am. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to change Change to something else and maybe it's maybe it's Pokemon the poker ux has been doing well That's not openings, but maybe I'll have poker ux openings Maybe that's what maybe that's the reaction we go. Maybe we do Maybe it's not just Pokemon. Maybe it's just other card games That could be what we do and honestly, I Think it is what we're gonna do because We've done so many Yu-Gi-Oh openings At this point, I'm just I don't know at this point I just I think that maybe it's time for something new. So I hope that you guys are ready for it If you're not that I understand I'll have a new channel Don't know what it's gonna be called yet, but I'll have a new channel Pokemon openings of Lestral openings Magic openings one-piece openings. I mean, that's probably that's the direction we're going at this point so Appreciate you guys listening to yeah, I well There's one more thing I need to say before before I finish this the last thing I needed to Say is April fools. Obviously. We're not gonna stop Yu-Gi-Oh openings. Come on.


Thank you. Thank you very much. Now, Hans has asked me to be the last speaker to punish me. He had hoped that I would be here for the whole conference, but he didn't have to punish me because I wanted to be here for the whole conference. I didn't want to come late, but there were obligations at home I couldn't get out, because there is no better place in the whole world to talk about the economic science. The economics of science than Bodrum. Because most human activities emerge gradually. Nobody knows who the first trader was or the first technologist. But science is a human construct, and we know who the first scientist the world ever had. We know who he was. He was Thales of Miletus. We know who the world's second scientist was. He was Anaximander of Miletus. We know who the world's third scientist was. It was Anaximinis of Miletus. I think you get the point. Now, Miletus is just down the road. And in the 5th century BC, science started here. Why here? Was it because these three were the beneficiaries of the patronage of Philip of Macedon, of some great king? No. It's because Miletus was the most commercial city in the world in the 5th century BC, right next door to Libya, which is next door, and which was then the most commercial state in the world. The Lydians were so commercial. Their king was King Midas. We all have heard of him. His kingdom invented coins. The Lydians were the first people in the world to have retail shops open 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. And the Lydians were so commercial, they would sell their daughters into prostitution. Science, like the selling of one's daughters into prostitution, was the consequence of a very commercial culture. Now, the reason the economics of science are so important, particularly to libertarians, is that I regret to say that we libertarians have sold the past on the most important economic activity of all. The most important economic activity is the creation of wealth, and it is absolute dogma that wealth creation, which is based on research, and that research needs government subsidies. Even Milton Friedman, when he wasn't inventing PAYE to help the government raise income tax, even Milton Friedman believed that governments had to fund science. In fact, the numbers of people in the world who believe that governments should not fund science is a very small number indeed. In fact, I sometimes think I'm the only one, which is a very lonely position to be in. But I see, oh, there are two marvellous people here who agree with me. Oh good, another one over there. Oh great, it's like a revivalist meeting. The argument that governments should fund science, and we are in a Muslim country here, so we can blame the Muslims, was first made by Rashid Al Bin in 1302. He was the vizier to the Persian Empire, and he then wrote in language that is astonishingly modern, that governments had to fund science because science was the basis of what we'd now call economic growth. This was taken up by an Englishman, Francis Bacon in 1605, his book, The Advancement of Learning, in which he spelled out the modern story. This is what he said, I'm translating it into modern language, but this is what he said. If an individual invests in a piece of research and makes a discovery, it will cost a great deal of money to do that. But the competitors can copy practically for nothing, any fool can copy, and therefore the competitors who are copying will have an advantage over the person who made the discovery, and they will take his discovery, and they will drive him into bankruptcy, because it's easier to copy than it is to create. Therefore, unless governments fund science as a social good, there will be no economic growth. Now, if we as libertarians are going to make an important contribution, a really fundamental contribution to the study of economic growth, which is the basis, really, electricity, hotels, civilisation, flights, the blood running, unless we as libertarians can capture economic growth for ourselves away from the statists like Northern Freedmen, then we are marginalised. So, let's look at the facts. Firstly, it is worth noting that Adam Smith thought that Bacon was wrong. Bacon was a lawyer. He knew nothing about economic growth. He just wrote about it. Adam Smith was immersed in the beginnings of the British Industrial Revolution and he observed what happened in the factories of the day, and he noted that it was the factories of the day doing the research and development and making the innovations, and he noted that it was universities like his own, Glasgow, that seemed to be receiving ideas from industry rather than the other way round. But, in fact, the modern econometric evidence is surprisingly strong. The Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development, the OECD, published a very important book in 2003 called The Sources of Growth in OECD Countries, 2003. That's what it called the book. You can get on the web. And they looked at the performance of the OECD countries, all of them, over the previous 26 years, measuring every parameter they could think of and the OECD has access to a lot of data, trying to work out which policy inputs and which other parameters correlated with subsequent economic growth. I'm not correlation time on time, but an event to then five years down the line. I'm something as close to causative as an econometrician can produce. What the OECD found was that privately funded R&D correlated very strongly indeed across the OECD countries while to various analysis with subsequent economic growth. Publicly funded R&D had no impact at all, not even a little. Even worse, publicly funded R&D, Search and Development, seemed to crowd out privately funded R&D, which is the good one. It might even be, the OECD concluded, that the public funding of R&D damages economic growth by crowding out its private funding. The OECD are not the only people to have made this observation. A number of other econometricians have pointed out that it is simply impossible to find econometric data on a national level which shows that a government funding science has any positive impact at all. It's simply the evidence is simply not there. Now, lack of evidence doesn't mean no evidence for what we're trying to find, but the historical story is also very interesting. The two lead countries of the last 200 years had been first the United Kingdom, which was the richest country in the world between about 1800 and 1900, and then the United States, which is country in the world from 1900 to the present day. It is, of course, a country such as France and Germany. What's interesting is that British led the way through the agricultural revolution, of course, we took over from the Dutch at that point, so we finished off the agricultural revolution and led the way into the industrial revolution under complete and utter laissez faire in science. There were a few government interventions in science, of course there were. For example, there was a course of lectures on agricultural chemistry once fostered by the Department of Agriculture in London. There were one or two totally tiny, totally trivial interventions in science in Britain, but they were so insignificant as to be nothing more the noise on any global picture. We were, and proud of it, laissez faire. That was the whole point of Gladstone, Peel and all the others. Low taxes, low government intervention, huge industrial revolution. Which country overtook us in 1900, the States? The United States was so laissez faire in science that, for example, when Smithson left his money to Washington for the Smithsonian Institution, initially Congress refused the money. Not only I see someone nodding their head, not only. The Congress not believe that the American taxpayers shouldn't fund science. They didn't even believe the American taxpayers should take someone else's money to fund science. In the end, Congress was embarrassed into using the money because they banked it with some banks in Arkansas and after a few years they noticed that only half the money was left. I think Arkansas clearly has a culture that hasn't changed very much in the last two hundred years. Before it all disappeared, they took the money back and built the Smithsonian. So laissez faire in science was America that by 1940 when America had been the richest country in the world and therefore by definition the most technologically advanced country in the world, by 1940 still over 80% of American R&D, both pure and applied science was in the private sector and the remaining 20%, half of that was for defence research which of course has no economic benefits and the other half, by 10%, was for agricultural research and never forget the overriding problem with American agriculture since long before the Republic has been the problem of overproductivity. The American government never funded agricultural research in America to solve problems of lack of productivity It was always how do we handle the fact that the farmers are also poor because they produce too much food and therefore they are themselves poor and demanding subsidies and the moral colleges are so called came into that business of trying to persuade American farmers to produce less as a paradox. Only in 1940 when the war breaks out, the Second World War well in America's case rather late in 1941 actually but only in 1941 when the Americans come in with a war to invest hugely in science and then carry on. Now what is interesting you can go to a wonderful man called Angus Madison who died just the other day who's collected GDP per capita data productivity data, technology data for the whole history of humanity wonderful series of books but we can go back and look in the history and we can ask questions. What is the rate of economic growth in America before 1940 and after 1940? Britain is the same story. The British government starts to fund science only in 1913 with the creation of the Medical Research Council Eugenics was of course the big worry at the time 1916 of course at the height of the war we started to create research councils to develop barbed wire and things which then developed into peacetime organisations just like in the United States the American Academy of Sciences in Washington was created at the height of the Civil War to help build on-claves to defeat as we now discover from our earlier talk the despised people in the south these are all wartime initiatives you can ask what happens to long-term rates of American growth GDP per capita before and after 1940 what happens to long-term rates for British GDP per capita growth before and after 1913? One of the astonishing things you discover from Madison's data is that lead countries like Britain France, Germany, Switzerland, Canada we've all been growing at 2% a year for nearly 200 years now rates of economic growth amongst lead countries are astonishingly steady but of course as you can guess I'm going to say there is no deflection that can be attributed to the introduction of science government science in these countries what is interesting is that France and Germany huge government investment in science from 1800 onwards in fact in the case of France and Colbert for the middle of the 17th century onwards France and Germany they never converge they never catch up on Britain, let alone on America they're always kept behind and they only take over from Britain France and Germany long after 1945, long after the post-war period when the British are stuck with post-imperial acts and all the rest of it but they never catch up with America the countries on the lead countries or the less affair countries, Britain and America the ones with the huge demigisum like France and Germany, they do well but never as well as the less affair countries one of the paradoxes that is never remarked upon and when we British finally do get overtaken by the French and the Germans it is because we too have vast scope of cunning of science and that's when we get overtaken where we've adopted the French and the Germans so why is it why is it that there's no historical data to show that the government funding of science is a benefit there's no contemporary economic economic metric data to show that the government funding of science is an economic benefit and yet everyone says that the government must fund science or the answer is of a misunderstanding of the nature of science the standard story the one that even Milton believed in which is that science is a public good in the sense that anybody can go to the journals or the internet today and pick up the journal Milletial Biology and read the papers to free anybody can do that you can, I can we can get it for nothing we can go to the patent office which very kindly publishes all the stuff thanks to Stefan Kincela and we can read all the patents admittedly we can't copy them directly but we can get ideas blah blah blah by the way I think Stefan will agree with me that's why Thomas Jefferson prompted a patent's office he himself didn't actually believe in monopoly he believed in the free transmission of ideas he just made a different calculation he assumed that patents transferred to the information more than industrial secrecy would do regardless of what he thought we all know that science is publicly available therefore it's easy to copy all the rest of it but hold on a second how many people in this room can read the journal Milletial Biology how many people in this room can read contemporary journals and physics or maths or physiology very very few now the interesting thing and you can show this very clearly that the only people who can read the papers the only people who can talk to the scientists who generate the data are fellow specialists in the same field and what are they doing they are publishing their own papers and if they try not to publish papers if they say we're not going to get engaged in the exchange of information we're going to keep out of it and just try to read other people's papers but not do any research of our own not making advances of our own not having any conversations with anyone within two or three years they're obsolescent and redundant and they can no longer read the papers because they're not doing the science themselves which gives them the tacit knowledge or the subtle stuff that's never actually published that enables you actually to access the information of your competitors before the Royal Society of London was created it's the world's world's oldest surviving scientific academy there were others before but they're now dead so the Royal Society's oldest one was survived before the Royal Society was created scientists published secretly they would for example write a paper and deposit in the safe of a college or a lawyer and keep it secret until eventually someone else published in a similar field and then they would go back extract the original paper which had been dated and notarised so they could claim that they got there first and say look the credit is mine I was there first but I didn't want to publish because I didn't want to help my competitors alternatively they would publish in code journals, there were many of them the publications of the 17th century are sometimes published in amigrans in latin or greek or literally in code so that people can register they've published and can prove it but they won't break the code until the subsequent competitive publication comes along and then they can go back and prove that they were first and get the credit this is no way to advance knowledge what the Royal Society introduced was the new idea because science is a human construct of publishing openly publishing the method section and the credit going only to the person who published first not to the person who claimed subsequently who made the discovery why was that important? imagine this room is all the scientists that existed in Europe in the 17th century imagine that from there to that side they're all members of the Royal Society and you from this side are not now these people here have a deal they will publish in the journal of the Royal Society everything, methods everything as quickly as possible now the worry that these people all have by publishing so quickly someone else may grab their discovery and run away with it on the other hand everybody in this room on this side has access to the advances made by 30 different people they have to take their chances on being scooped but they have 29 times more chance of having something to scoop you lot are all single handed practitioners you have only your own resources by which to achieve guess who will win the Nobel prizes will it be one of this lot or one of you lot and so once the Royal Society got into this new business of sharing knowledge instantly or as quickly as is feasible then this lot realised that they were going to lose out and so they had to join the same conventions and so very quickly the convention arose of full disclosure but you can't access the science of others unless you're part of a game it is only the molecular biologist who's publishing his own papers getting invited to the conferences having the discreet conversations of the fellow molecular biologists who can capture the work of others and so you don't get the information for free you pay a very high price to access the information of your fellows science is not a public good I call it in my book here an invisible college good the Royal Society met an invisible college because it was worried about religious oppression at the time and what science is it is an invisible college good and it costs as much to access information as it does to make it and actually if you go into the fine print of the contemporary economic data it's all there no one has put it together because no one wants to put it together but put together all the disparate bits of evidence it's very easy to show the data's been there for years now it costs as much to access other people's science as it does to make it it's just that the cost of accessing is the sort of subtle parallel cost of the work you have to do before you're ready to read it and as part of that you're contributing into the common pool of knowledge and it's interesting the common pool of knowledge in this book I have a whole chapter called let's abolish patents he's absolutely right and by the way the libertarians have a problem with patents I put it slightly different because all libertarians obsess through property rights there are some libertarians who simply can't understand in my opinion that intellectual property rights are a very different bit from property rights I think my libertarians paradoxically often have more problems with IPR than others but it's a very interesting example of this business of pooling knowledge and science works it happened in the United States of America something that very few people know is that the Wright Brothers aeroplane Flyer 1 has spent more time does anyone in this room know in which museum Flyer 1 has spent most of its life most of its life Flyer 1 sorry no, no, no, no I'm English British Museum Flyer 1 has spent more time in the British Museum than the Smithsonian not many people know this and the reason for this is the Wright Brothers became America's enemy number one when they invented the aeroplane they invented the whole aeroplane the wings, the aerolons, the propellers the whole shooting mash and they did it for the investment of a thousand of their own dollars at the same time the Smithsonian had received very rare in America before 1940 a very substantial grant of £76,000 from Congress to develop their own aeroplane which they called Aerodrome this is a grant in 1896 because by 1896 as we've heard from an earlier speaker the Americans had run out of Red Indians to kill so they're now killing Spaniards in Cuba and in the Philippines and they thought it would be a nice idea to kill them from the air as we know has never changed this is not me, this is one of the previous speakers and so the Smithsonian had the $76,000 from Congress to develop a bomber and the Wright Brothers got there first and the Wright Brothers panted the entire aeroplane and any time Glen Curtis or anyone else tried to fly an aeroplane in America the Wright Brothers were there immediately taking them to court the result was that by the time America finally joined the war in 1917 America did not have an aviation industry the Wright Brothers were too busy defending their patents and no one else was flying the French had a great aviation industry the Germans had a great one so did the Brits even the Canadians were quite a good one but the Americans didn't have one so in 1917 Congress the day after the declaration of war imposed a patent pool on the American aviation industry and from 1917 to 1975 which is a very long time there were no effective patents in the American aviation industry you could patent but you couldn't claim anything as a consequence a patent pool 1917 strong patent law most backward aviation industry in the world America 1975 no patent law weakest America strongest aviation America and strict America a very nice empirical example of how the sharing of knowledge creates technological growth for everybody try to restrict knowledge either through patents or before the war society changing knowledge 1975 Richard Nixon took away the patent pool because unfortunately he didn't actually understand the economics of science and he was in the hands of certain lobbyists so to conclude oh just one more thing before I do conclude and then I shall shut up what is really interesting about the exchange of knowledge is the work of Von Hippel and others at MIT Sloan Management School industrial scientists collude or I don't know what word you want to use exchange information all the time even competitors it's a straight quip pro pro just like academic scientists Von Hippel showed for example a few stele makers in America a level of them routinely met discreetly and exchange information as quip pro quips it's a very nice model economically there is actually shared knowledge among scientists one of the leading economists of science I don't know the names because it's born really but he's shown that there are no industrial secrets in America or in Britain or in the west scientists at the level of research in companies exchange so much information that no secrets exist more than by the year and a half you may believe that Coca-Cola's formula or Kentucky Fried Chicken's formula is a secret Pepsi knows what it is and so does everybody else these secrets don't exist but what there is is proprietary knowledge and technology so all the scientists are always exchanging knowledge but once you develop the product then you get competition with other marketing and almost perfect economic model for economic growth so to conclude not only is there no evidence that the government funding of science benefits there's actually evidence from France and Germany to say nothing of Russia or India which had huge government programmes then it might actually damage and the reason it would damage is it's based on the wrong model science is not a public good or not a bad thing scientists are not atomised competitors actually scientists have learnt from 1662 onwards and industrial scientists today why do you think they congregate in Science Park why do competitors congregate in Science Park it's to exchange information even though they're competitors scientists discovered a very long time ago that their own self-interest is assured that they share knowledge with competitors because the ones that don't share knowledge whether academic scientists looking for their nobles or business artists looking for money it's the ones that don't share that will absolutely get left behind so the model is wrong and there's no evidence to show it's right and why why has no one established this I think the answer is a very disgraceful one I have spoken to the leading economists of science and really pressed them and I really think it comes down ultimately to popularity and a desire not to be unpopular there is no vested interests apart from the general taxpayer and we know what happens to them there is no vested interest to defend SFN science the politicians love funding science because for relatively small sum of money they can do what Clinton and Blair did to stand together and claim that they funded the human genome they can send men to Mars the moon and claim they love it scientists love it because it's irresponsible much nicer if they get money from the government to do what you want to do than actually do something socially useful industry loves it because it sees it as a one way corporate subsidy welfare everybody loves it apart from some of the people in this room thank you very much