Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. Welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020 Downtown San Francisco and Moscone Center, 40,000 professionals in the security industry. It's the biggest security event in the world, I'm pretty sure. Certainly the biggest one in the U.S. We're excited to have somebody who's been running around, taking care of these problems and talking to customers for a very long time. He's got a great long-term perspective. We're happy to have him. Jonathan Nguyen, the VP Global Field CISO team for Fortinet. Jonathan, great to see you. Thanks for having me. So you said you've been coming to this show for a long, long time. Love to get kind of your impressions that the human element is the theme this year. You know, I think it's changing. Attendance has broken out by very senior people who've been here for multiple events and then a whole new slew of people are coming into the industry, right? And there's a lot of excitement. There's a little bit less of a buzz. It just seems there's a little bit less people here this year because of the virus scare. But overall, I think the themes are pretty consistent, which is kind of tragic that the themes are consistent year after year because it suggests that not a lot has changed despite the $130 billion in network security spend. You know, absolutely complexity. Everyone is telling me about how to solve complexity, how to do more with less, how to do more with less than fewer people and how to get their arms on this vast volume of data that's being generated. There's a lot of talk about automation and AI, but much more practical, less buzzwords and more practical solutions. And you have still tons of new vendors, right? Tons of new opportunities. You know, I don't know what the final count is on the vendor side, but it's a really large number.  It's still a ton of innovation. A lot of people trying to move the ball. So I think when the first show first started, there were less than 500 vendors, I think, in the industry back in 2007. I think today we're north of 5,000 and it's probably 8,000. There are about 5,000 vendors in the immediate vicinity here, but just go around the corner and there are dozens of others having their own events in the neighboring hotels and restaurants. So it's astounding the number of different point products are still coming into the industry. And that really suggests that we haven't gotten our arms around integrating all this technology and it's just another level of complexity. So what do you tell your friends on the buy side, right? Who know you and say, John, I'm going to RSA. How in the heck am I supposed to navigate not only the show specifically, but kind of this vendor landscape and make sense of it all? I'm telling them to look for vendors that are partners that have a long-term perspective and that do the integration for you. You know, one of the things coming from an operational background is I talked to others like our job is to operate technology. It really isn't about integrating technology. It really isn't about OA and product releases. I want to focus my budget and my resources on operating technologies to manage risk. So I look for partners and vendors like Fortinet that has a fabric with 258 plus different products and vendors that are already integrated out of the box. I'm looking for someone that solves complexity rather than a specific problem or a specific threat vector. And I'm really looking for someone that helps me understand and manage risk because that's the object of the exercise in cybersecurity today. You know, it's not about compliance. It's about compliance. It's about security. It's about resilience, but a reasonable level of care in managing risk. Right. And yeah. It's a great topic because I was thinking that kind of in terms of insurance, in terms of how much do you spend and you can't ensure everything to 100%, right? So it's going to be some number less than that. Everybody else needs a piece of the pie. But how do you make those kind of trade offs between investment versus risk? Because you can't absolutely protect everything. It makes no sense. So I think the value of it comes back to this ESO and his or her team, it's a very human decision. There is no prescriptive definition of what reasonable care is. You know, outside of one statement by Kamala Harrison, she was the state's attorney in California here, which is the SIS20 is the minimum level of reasonable care. And so now we have to understand how do we define what is reasonable? What is the risk appetite or tolerance for a company? And once you identify those things, what are the controls and mitigation measures that you're going to have in place to mitigate those risks? And then what's left is residual risk. And that's a hard decision. How much will you absorb? How much will you transfer? And how much will you just tolerate? But it's really no longer just about compliance. And it's no longer just about having security or continuity or resilience about all of those things at a reasonable level. Right, it's interesting. I was pulling up Wendy Nader from Cisco gave one of the early keynotes and she talked about really the security profession embracing those pesky people that keep clicking on links because really they're the people that have the data around the specific applications and specific assets that the company has to kind of have that informed decision as to what is it worth to protect and do we need to protect it? Do we need to protect it more? Can we let this thing go a little bit? Yeah, I think the human element is the hardest part in mind of this conference and it's deemed the human element. The hardest part about this job is that it's not just mechanical issues and routing issues and networking issues but it's about dealing with all types of humans. Innocent humans that do strange and bad things unknowingly and it's in malicious people who do very bad things by design. And so the research suggests that no matter what we do in security awareness training some 4% of our employee base will continually fail security awareness tests. We'll refish it and actively. And so one of the things that we need to do is use automation and intelligence so that you could comb through all of that data and make a better informed decision about what risks you're going to mitigate, right? And for this 4% that are habitually abusing the system and can't be retrained, well you can isolate them, right? And make sure that they're separated and they're not able to do things that may harm the organization. Right, the other human element is the people on the security teams, right? And it's a tough resource. There aren't enough of them and historically they've been the ones at that integration point between all these different systems. And it's a highly stressful job. You know, there was a Forbes article that said 17% of all CISOs are functional alcoholics. I mean, I mean, and they medic- What was it, 17%? 17%, one of every six CISOs medicates himself or herself with alcohol and Medicaid is a very specific term of art. It doesn't mean recreational drinking.  And that tells you about the level of stress and complexity in this job. Our research suggests that the average CISO lifespan is somewhere on the low end of about 12 months, on a high end, somewhere about 24. In their role or in their profession? In their role, their current job, their current gig. They're not lasting more than two years. The sheer complexity and stress of the job.  So that gives you an idea of the level of stress and the complexity that the average CISO is going to face here. Right, so really begs for a lot more automation. A lot more automation on the defense side. It does, it begs for a lot more automation and how do you help those teams cope with the massive levels of complexity and data that's coming out of these digitized and digitally transformed enterprises, right? I mean, when you think about each person's going to generate three to five terabytes of data per person per day and that computing is going to change in the next three to five years. Right now, 85% of computing and data generated comes from traditional IT functions. As you move into 5G and edge-based computing, the vast majority of data generated computing will be done on the edge. So the level of complexity, the number of technologies and devices that we're going to have to monitor is only going to expand. Right, right. In the speed of those transactions, in the speed of the potential harm. So Mary Dat against the research data says that 99% of the attacks could have been mitigated through simple intermediate controls and that the patches, the signatures were readily available. And so the thing to contemplate as we go into this heightened level of complexity and expansion of our computing environment is we're missing the basics today, right? If 99% of the successful attacks are based upon exploits that are known that the signatures are available and the patches available for them a year, what are we going to do when everything else becomes even more complex? Right, more sophisticated. That's funny, that was part of Rohit's keynote.  So the reality is the vast majority were just coming right in the normal side door that they've been coming in all along. And one thing I always say is during my time at the Verizon Data Breach Investigations Report was that 77% of all the breaches were not identified by the security team. They were identified by law enforcement. 77%. 77%, okay, so let's say you've got a CIS admin that goes out and accesses financial information before the earnings call and does insider trading. And it's the SEC that calls the FBI and it's the FBI that calls you and said, by the way, your CIS admin is going to be charged with insider trading and that's how they know that there's been a compromise. And in many cases, what does that tell you? Despite $130 billion of network security spend this year alone, that's seven out of 10 data breaches will be identified by law enforcement and not the security team. So that tells you that- And not the security law enforcement team either. It's the SEC or the FBI or somebody else. It's the Secret Service. And it just says that security is so complex that until we find ways like the foreign and security fabric to automate and to manage complexity in an integrated way, that's the leading edge indicator that I look for is that at what point do security teams identify more data breaches than law enforcement and the victims? And they're way behind at this point. Unfortunately, yes. That's crazy. But there's a lot more AI now that you guys can use too, right, on the good guys side. But how does that really square the circle when you're saying so many of it just comes through the simple approaches? Because of lack of visibility. SOC teams are overwhelmed by the volume of data. And so the way to address the volume and variety and velocity of data is to use artificial intelligence to use a machine to make human decisions and behavior at machine speed. And so when we launched our 40 AI product offering of the virtual security analysts, the research that we did suggest that is equivalent of five SOC analysts. And so that's one way of helping SOC teams that are overwhelmed by the volume of data that are under staff to use artificial intelligence to distill out from all of that data the useful patterns and to marry that with our four to guard intelligence and say, okay, this is the techniques, tactics and procedures most likely associated with this threat vector now escalate that to a human to make a decision on whether you want to mitigate that. And once you decide to mitigate that, you use the automated and integrated capabilities of the fabric to make an efficient and effective mitigation of that incident. That's interesting you bring up the SEC case. We had a conversation earlier today where we're talking about deep fakes. Somebody had the use case that what if you just had a pretty straightforward deep bake of some executive from some company saying something to move the market and you drop that into the social stream three minutes before the close on a Friday, you get a play off the margin leverage. Nobody gets to really investigate the thing until the four minutes are over, markets are closed. You get a significant financial damage in a situation like that. Without even really directly impacting the company systems. So you're hitting on the fact that we are more interconnected than ever and that the traditional compensating controls that we would have used to mitigate that type of risk is not as effective. And so that's going to be a challenge we report. Everything is going to be more interconnected, accelerated and decisions will be driven by data. So all those things will drive complexity. So maybe next year when we'll be talking again, we'll see about that. One of the reasons I have a credit freeze personally is that I'm aware of things like deep fakes, impersonating, spoofing my identity. So having a credit freeze allows me to know that no one can leverage my credit even if they have my data. Interesting. So, Begg's question, we sit down here a year from now without the benefit of 2020 hindsight. You know, what do you think the themes are going to be? What do you see as kind of this kind of short-term move in the market based on some of these factors that you've identified? I think more automation, more artificial intelligence, ways of automating the traditional process, close and security. But secondarily, I think there's going to be the rising awareness of edge-based computing and smart systems. Autonomous level five vehicles that are networked and rather than sensory-based awareness, smart homes, smart industrial applications, that computing will be done on the edge increasingly and those industrial applications, that 85% of the data computing will be done there. And that increasingly, the cloud will become a repository for storage and correlation but the actual computing and actuation will be done on the edge. And so as 5G takes hold, you're going to see tremendous transformations in our society and our economy and how we conduct commerce, how we communicate. And that leads to more complexity. That's why I'm so focused on helping organizations getting security right now before that next onslaught of complexity hits us. Yeah, it's coming. It is, yeah. The 5G IoT thing is just around the corner. Look at the telcos. There's a very specific reason why they're investing literally hundreds of billions of dollars into 5G and the tremendous societal and economic changes that that will bring in infrastructure and communications and security will have to stay paced with that. One of the things that we're going to see moving forward is that the digital infrastructure is only as successful as the security is. And I think we should see a breakdown in the traditional operational silos and network operations and security operations. Well, as Michelle Dennedy said earlier on the air, if you cannot protect, you should not connect. But fortunately, people are still connecting before they're ready to protect. So hopefully there'll be a little bit more circumspect going forward. Well, Jonathan, thanks for taking a few minutes and sharing your perspective. Really appreciate it. Always a fun time. Always a fun time. He's Jonathan. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020 from downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.


فشرف بالاشتغالي بالعلم ولا تبغي به ما عشت يا دادا دالا وياله من شراف عظيمي 4 يعرفوا بدلالة الإجماعة The fourth way to know is by way of consent Consent Which is the hadith of the messenger قتل الشارب الخمر في الرابع Killing the one who drinks the smoke on the fourth attempt He drinks first time he gets whipped Second time he gets whipped Third time he gets whipped Fourth time he's killed This hadith By way of consent it's known that it's abrogated Because Abu Dawud and Tirmidy narrated it قال النوة ويو And the Imam know we said it's a Muslim The consent has shown على النسخي that the hadith is abrogated Now some of you might say Can the إجماعة abrogate We say no But it shows abrogation It shows there's an abrogation here But it doesn't abrogate When إجماعة ولا ينسخ ولا يونسخ Abrogation إجماعة cannot be abrogated And cannot abrogate إجماعة cannot be abrogated You can't say there's an إجماعة And an إجماعة cannot be abrogated That means opposition of the إجماعة And also the إجماعة cannot abrogate a text But it can show abrogation It can show that the narration is abrogated What's the wisdom in abrogating What's the wisdom Is Allah changing his mind Just wants to change his mind By the way, I want you to all know Abrogation Does it happen in news Yes or no The nest is called lie You can't abrogate a story that you told It's lying You've gone through this story I abrogated it That's you lying, correct? Abrogation happens in rulings Are you with me? No نسخ happens in أحكام Not in أخبار أخبار إذا حبناوا Didn't it happen How can you abrogate something Did it happen or not You say it didn't happen And you say it happened in the beginning Is either one of the fun You're lying This one, this one Correct? So pay attention to that What's the wisdom in And نسخ abrogation What's the wisdom What's the wisdom in it نaym كلمة is Apparent and most great Benefits are respect The first one is Di00apaz نصف ن스럽 Is Allah to Allah Looking Subhanahu و Gazem After the best For his creation He discovered his mercy In them So Allah is, He chose So Allah is having mercy On you Kindness والجنارسة إذا كيف تجد من هناك؟ إذا الله أحبك لكن إذا الله أعطتك أحد الأقل و أنت قلت بها أنت لا تعلم كيف مرحباً لكن عندما تفهم أن الله قلت بك و بعد أنه كان مرحباً هل أنت صح؟ الله قلت بك لذلك هو أفضل أنه يوجد الآخر هو الله يحاوله في مجرده لكي أرى how strong they are إنه يحاول إنه يحاول أنه يحاول أنه يحاول أنه يحاول أنه يحاول عندما يحاول و أنهم يضعون لهم و الله قلت أنه يحاول سأخبرك ما هو the difference between نسخ and تخصيص ما هو the difference between the two نسخ to say this is نسخ and this is خاص the difference between the two is نسخ is basically lifting up the ruling in totality رفع الحكم بالكلية نسخ means that you uplifting the rule in totality it's gone, no more, doesn't exist anymore such as the person who drank alcohol four times, the ruling is gone doesn't exist anymore تخصيص is specifying it it's قصر الحكم على بعض أفراده in some of its types so you're not taking all of it from it you're specifying it on a particular it's called رفع جزي the uplifting is two types as you should all know رفع كل رفع جزي general lifting and specific lifting are you guys with me if it's generally all lifted then this is called نسخ abrogation but if it's specifically lifted then this is called تخصيص a lot of scholars have wrote books in ناسق والمنصق from the books is ابن الشاهين's book حازي من رحمه الله he wrote a book in it اتباره في ناسق والمنصق من الآثار برحانه الدين الجعبوري he wrote a book with رصوخ الأحبار also the topic that we took before which was محكم and especially the مختلف الحديث a lot of scholars have written in that field as well شافعي wrote a book called اختلاف الحديث he also scholars disputed one another between the book of امام الشافعي اختلاف الحديث is it actually a particular book that شافعي wrote in and within itself or is it a chapter in his كتابة الأم there's خلاف also one of the scholars who wrote it is ابن قطيبة he wrote a book called تأويل مختلف الحديث also ابو جعفر اختلاف الحديث امام اختلاف الحديث and you can say it's one of the greatest books the biggest books that have been written سخاوي رحم الله انه قابل للاختصار سخاوي said it's a book that should be abridged and it also needs ترتيب it should be organized because it's all over the place now after that so we spoke about if the narrations he told us رحمه الله إن سلم من المعارضة if it's safe from any opposition then the حديث is called محكم if the حديث is a معارضة there's an opposition which we spoke about last lesson if we're able to bring it together فإن أم كان الجمع if we can bring it together this is called مختلف الحديث if we can't bring it together then we result to what we result to which one came first and finding out and verifying which one came first then we go to what is known as the first the first one is الناسخ and the next one is المنصخ we now are going to go to we are unable we can't even tell the time we can't tell which one is first or not if you can't do that result to ترجيح ترجيح is to say what it's to say that this is stronger this is راجح for this reason she's trying to say إنه إلم يمكن الجمع if you're unable to bring them together between the two نصوص which are متعارضة and you're unable to know the تاريخ then here it is possible you can do ترجيح you can do ترجيح سيوطرحم الله إنه كتاب تدريب الرعوي he mentioned 7 types of ترجيح ترجيح is to say that this is stronger than this one he said the first one is ترجيح بحال الرعوي you say that this is stronger because of the situation of the narrator this is one of the ways to distinguish which one is راجح and which is مرجوح you say that this one is stronger because the narrator in his حديث his situation such as for example his memory is stronger he's فق he's got more فق than the other one or he was ملازمة الشيوخ والسلامة من التدليس he is consistently known to be with the sheikh he's far from doing تدليس and doing تدليس the second one is الترجيح بالطرقي المحتمل is to say that this is stronger than this one because سيغة الأدان the way the حديث is submitted to us the form that is used like for example if it's سماع if it's عرض if it's إجازة which are forms in which the حديث were taken okay this is one of the ways to distinguish between which is stronger and which is not stronger the third one is الترجيح بكيفية الرواية the third which is the حديث to strengthen it due to how it was narrated how the fourth one is like for example if the حديث narrated by its wordings or if the حديث is narrated by in terms of its meaning it will come to it inshallah four الترجيح بوقت الورود given ترجيح to the حديث because of when it came when the حديث it took place it took place five الترجيح بلافد الخبر to say that this is stronger because it's a خبر it's an information so what do you mean by in terms of its meaning a خبر for example if it's general we say it's خاص عام مطلق مقايد مفهوم منطوق مفهوم الموافقة مفهوم المخالفة we go to the صور الفق field of it in order to explain it so this is due to its خبر six is what الترجيح بالحكم given ترجيح because of its rulings because of its rulings six is what ترجيح because of امر خارجي to give ترجيح to strengthen it because of external external matter we say this goes with the eye of the Quran so the eye is going to support it so we give that one strength if those forms that we mentioned and there may be more than that then the scholars what do they do وإلا if it's ترجيح cannot be done فما توقفوا after they tried all of that they still cannot bring the Hadith which was stronger I was watching so what do they result to now فما توقفوا and you leave it for who who can later maybe be able to bring the narrations together you may not be able to but he will he will be able to that now in the book brothers is all مقبول مقبول is finished now حجر is finished مقبول now we are going to go into مردود the second type are you guys with me all of that to this point was مقبول the narration which are accepted ثم المردود يكون لسقط أو طعن فالسقط إما أن يكون من مبدأ السردي من مصنف أو من آخره بعد التابع أو غير ذلك فالأول الروع اللقو ابن حجر حمو الله he is now going into the خبر which is مردود we have just finished the خبر which is مقبول while we were starting the خبر which is مقبول المعمول بهي المعمول the Hadith which is is implemented and that is done the Hadith which is taken and accepted the شيخ رحمه الله he mentioned it and now we are going to go into the خبر which is مردود rejected that we are not going to take they rejected remember this brothers they rejected if a Hadith is مردود it's only مردود so if a Hadith is مردود what does it mean it means it's a life what does it mean it means that this Hadith is a life and it's for two reasons why a Hadith is rejected two reasons are the main two reasons إذا سقط the disconnection that occurs in the chain of narration are you guys with me or or the criticism on the narrator or a criticism on the on the narrator the types of disconnection are two types are you guys with me the type of disconnection is two types what are they ساقطن باهيرون and apparent disconnection and that's four of them there are only four of them ساقطن باهيرون an apparent disconnection are you guys with me it's four types it's the معلق it's the مرسل it's the معبال and it's the منقطع the معلق the مرسل the معبال and the منقطع those four are called ساقطن باهيرون they're called ساقط are you guys with me those four those four that I just mentioned right now they are called what apparent disconnection they are called ساقطن باهيرون apparent disconnection what's the difference between all those fours the difference between all those fours is بحسب المكان ساقط where the disconnection came from that's the first difference between the four and also عدد الروات الذين ساقطوا اسقطوا and also the number of narrators that were disconnected that's the difference between these four okay the difference between those two is that where the disconnection happened in the chain of narration and also the number of people that got disconnected are you guys with me the second type is called what ساقطن خفي it's what it's a disconnection which is not apparent خفي it's hidden it's a hidden disconnection are you guys with me and it's two types it's called مدلس it's the مدلس and the مرسل الخفي and the مرسل which is called مرسل الخفي مرسل الخفي this type which is called ساقطة الخفي that type of ساقط و هذا لا يدرك إذا الأئمة الحزاق الفحول no one is able to know that type too I just mentioned the مدلس except the scholars of حديث who are the حداق المطالعون the scholars of حديث who are tough who are strong who are able to follow what طرق الحديث و علل الأساني the defects and faults that occur in the حديث are you guys with me ابن حجر now he's gonna start with which one so that one is the first type of rejection it's called due to what ساقطة و ظاهر why is it ساقطة و ظاهر is because of that so it's the first type of rejection sorry it's called ساقطة في السنة the discretion of حديث are you guys with me and that's two times ساقطة و ظاهر is معلق مرسل و مقطر ساقطة خفي is what المدلس و المرسل الخفي we finished that one now we're gonna go into the second type of why حديث is rejected اططعنو في الراوي the narrator is criticized the criticism directed towards the narrator and as I said اططعنو في الراوي the criticism that happens to a narrator happens because he gets criticized for two things what are they his عدالة his reliability and the second both of them are five types each of them are five types the criticism that is directed at his عدالة his reliability are five اططعنو في الراوي he's suspected to have lied اططعنو في الراوي he's a fasik اططعنو في الراوي he fell into innovation اططعنو في الراوي he's unknown and the جهالة that I'm referring to here is the جهالة العين جهالة الحال and جهالة العين is the جهالة العين as for the criticism that is put towards his memory is also five times فحش الغلط his memory is severely he gets it wrong too much you see سؤال حفظ he has a bad memory ثري الغف له he's a heedless person ثري خلفي he's known to oppose other narrators a lot ثري all of those were gonna take the details you don't need to know what they all are right now so any حنيت that you hear is weak anyone who ever tells you there is a weak حنيت out there you're gonna ask them for what reason is it a سقط في السند or is it اطعنو في الراوي if you say it is a سقط في السند the haneet is disconnected you say اطعنو في الراوي are you talking about are you talking about سقط ظاهرن فرقمت بأنك أسخت غبي فأنا أتAnyt يطلق بأنك أسخط ظاهر إن شخص ما رأى الله فأنا تطلق بأنك أسخط غبي أعرف فرق رقم معجل مرسل معلق و leaders كيف حمل تحدثك papers if he says to you now I meant سقط غبي فأنت أخي أن ما تطلق كمثب المدلس أو مرسل غبي he said no I don't mean at all it is not even أسقط at the Senate Hey what is it It is أطعه في الراوي the narrator is criticized so you said to him و الملغة المقفرة البنعة مصدقى مقفرة مصدقى كافر كافر فلالا بنعة الى الجهيمية فلالا بنعة الى الجهيمية و سنتة القرآن يصدقها لما إذا كانت أيضا بنعة التي لم تكون بنعة المقفرة لما كانت بنعة هذه المصدقى


The signal oil program The whistler Whistle is your signal for the signal oil program The whistler. I am the whistler and I know many things for I walk by night I know many strange tales hidden in the hearts of men and women who have stepped into the shadows Yes, I know the nameless terrors of which they dare not speak Yes friends, it's time for the signal oil program the whistler Rated by independent research the most popular West Coast program in radio history and Signal gasoline is tops to tops in quality It takes extra quality, you know to give you extra mileage and signal is the famous go farther gasoline So look for the signal circle sign in yellow and black that identifies friendly dealer owned signal service stations From Canada to Mexico And now the whistler strange story hasty conclusion Professor Wagner sat in his office in the old brick chemistry building a late issue of the chemistry journal open on the desk before it The drowsy afternoon sounds of the campus and the reassuring tick of his secretary's typewriter made him sleepy Unable to concentrate on his reading The article was in fine print and the professor found himself tempted to drop it into the wastebasket But he was forced to continue reading when the dean published the rest of the department was expected to read it Suddenly he turned back the pages and reread the article more carefully his mind shuttling between memory and suspicion Why was all this so familiar? Could it be what he suspected his secretary with her spinster's efficiency would know Very interesting very Oh miss Rose. Yes, Professor Wagner. Did you type this latest article of Dean Emerson's? Why yes good, isn't it? He's had much favorable comment. Hmm the subject interests me. Didn't it seem familiar to you? Yes, it did. I remember thinking so when I typed it Any idea where you might have read it before why some thesis notes one of the students. That's it, of course Nielsen's notes Nielsen. Oh, oh, yes, the graduate student. Where are they miss Rose in the files? I remember for you particularly wanted them saved get them Oh, this is too good to be true Let me see Lloyd Nielson Poor man such a tragedy so young to be taken like that. Yes. Yes. Very unfortunate. Are they there? Yes Here they are. Oh All that research and never to finish it. It doesn't seem right. I'll take them, please Mm-hmm Now let's see the Dean's article here Yes, yes identical. I thought this was better than his usual dribble Get on the phone miss Rose, but he's launching at the faculty club. Call him there Tell him I want to see him at three o'clock, but but he's he if there's any question. Tell him It's about the late mr. Nielsen Please that you like my paper Wagner an important contribution Dean Emerson you have every reason to be proud I'm glad of any prestige. I may bring to the college and rightly so The next Dean will have quite a position to maintain and that's not immediate. I have many more good years Still there's always the unforeseen The little mistakes that can end the career so untimely Wagner. What's on your mind? A student named Nielsen Lloyd Nielsen Nielsen the name means something to you. No, no, surely you remember him the one who died We've had so many students not like him He did a brilliant piece of research Something about the valence of burial. Oh, I I recall it vaguely too bad. He didn't finish. He did His findings have been published, but that's impossible. How could he come come, Emerson? I just told you I read your paper. What are you suggesting?   Oh, yes, there are you forget Nielsen was my student too It must have been a mistake a coincidence if the papers had been in your own field toxicology. Yes, but they weren't Emerson You've never liked me Wagner This is nothing but malice Call it ethics and you want to expose me for the sake of your ethics. Oh, then you admit there's something to expose. Well, I Mean Wagner isn't there some way we can settle this quietly? That's better May I smoke? Oh, yes, sir. Oh certainly I want to buy me. Thank you Yes, Emerson There is a way quiet But honorable of course anything naturally for the good of the college I'll have to ask you to withdraw withdraw, but I'll be fair I keep the reason to myself generous of you. I think so but to give up my whole career You don't know what you're asking better than having the truth come out Wagner for heaven's sake must It be this way just what you would do in my place, isn't it? I see And I have no choice but to resign Very wise. I suppose I should thank you Well, there's a way to show your gratitude as chairman of the appointments board You can name your successor my successor. Do you mean that you? I'll expect to replace you as dean. So that's your ethics for you I won't do it. Oh, you're suddenly very scrupulous. You can tip Get out of my office very well, then the truth will have to be known. I'll deny it. I'll discredit you All right a scandal if you like get out of here you'll hear from me later Emerson No way pregnant. I'll come back I'll do as you say Anything to I thought you'd see it my way.  How much time well a day or two anyway, so you can squirm out of it No, I can't wait that long for a few hours at least this evening come to dinner at my house tonight Mrs. Emerson retires early and we can talk about it afterwards. What time 6 30 all right 6 30 I'll have an answer for you then. There's only one possible answer. Good afternoon You're sure you won't have some coffee professor. Thank you, Mrs. Emerson nothing more Marion don't insist on coffee when I've told you I'm selling pork, but everyone doesn't like pork Charles You mean you don't that isn't what I meant at all. You're so irritable this evening dear nothing of the sort Well, it's always a sign when you're worried is something wrong. I've told you nothing's wrong Marion drop it here. You are professor Rather good color, don't you think thank you. You're not having any oh Not supposed to trouble with my eyes go ahead Hmm Very good Very good indeed Pleasant here in the summer house if the Dean enjoys dining out here Although I feel it's still early in the season and there's a chill in the air your cold Marion perhaps you wouldn't mind Of course you two have business to talk over your asleep when I leave. I'll see you Monday leave. Oh Yes, the ski club. I'd forgotten. I'd be going as soon as the professor and I finish. Well, I hope the snow is Still good Charles Good night, professor. Sorry to hurry you off. Mrs. Emerson. Oh, you're not. I want to get back to my detective story So interesting I tell the Dean he ought to write one with his knowledge of toxicology He must know many clever poisons that leave no trace Marion for heaven's sake Well, after all their only stories No one behaves as they do in books. Do they professor?  I Hate to have you drive to the ski club in this state. You are worried. I'm not worried Marion Besides, I'm driving up with dr. Phillips. All right, dear Good night, professor. Good night Well Wagner I've considered your demand have you there's nothing else for me to do but to agree Nothing else I'll resign at once and you'll be appointed Dean nothing else Emerson no other way What do you mean very clever of you getting me to dinner and then I know what you've done done I see it all now. You've poisoned me. There was poison in that way I'm poison when you're mad.  Didn't she? Wagner why are you doubled over like that? The pain My stomach. Oh, you won't get away with it. Is you listen to me Wagner dr. Phillips. I'll get him cross the street Can't tell him a story like that.  Oh, let me go. Listen to me I didn't let me go. Let me go. I say Wagner don't put down at the case away For a stunned moment you stand there and then suddenly find yourself running pill mill down the gravel path toward the Garden gate doubled over clutching at the burning pain in your stomach Knowing it's your life now unless you can get across the street to the doctor's office Before the poison strikes you down a minute later. You stumble up the steps and burst into the doctor's office Phillips acts quickly efficiently Pulse the shade fast blood pressure up a bit. That's probably due to excitement.  Yeah, yes, yes Seem to vanish the minute I got here. You've been nervous lately working on why yes Putting in a lot of nights at the lamb. Well, there's the usual rush around exam time. Tell me What did you have for dinner over at Emerson's? Let's see? Shrimp Creole avocado salad That's enough for me Wagner old boy, you can forget about poisoning. You've got yourself a case of gastritis. That's all. Oh Oh, I see Well, I've got to get back to Emerson. Emerson will wonder what'll happen to me. He doesn't know No, I I didn't want to worry him said I was going into the house to phone Well, I'll I'll say good night, doctor. Thank you. Oh, I'm going to walk over with you To Emerson's yes, do you mind? No, no, no, no, I was just on my way over when you came come on Oh, but but well the Dean's rather busy. That's all right. He's expecting me at nine o'clock Expecting you yes After you, Wagner With the prologue of hasty conclusion the signal oil company presents another strange story by the Whistler But now two points it'll pay every driver to remember if you want to be sure you're getting the tops in quality when you buy gasoline one in gasoline it takes extra quality to give you extra mileage to go farther and Two signal is the famous go farther gasoline After all the only way any gasoline can put more thrilling performance into your car is by helping your motor run more efficiently and When your motor runs more efficiently naturally you get better mileage So mileage is really the best yardstick of gasoline quality That's why we're so proud of signals good mileage and it's why signal says When you buy gasoline for your car to be sure you're getting the tops in quality there are just two things to remember one in gasoline it takes extra quality to go farther and Two throughout the West from Canada to Mexico Signal is the famous go farther gasoline And now back to the Whistler Well, Professor Wagner, it's all changed isn't it your discovery of Dean Emerson's plagiarism Almost provided the means of settling yourself into a very comfortable spot But it's anything but comfortable at the moment as you stand at the Dean's front door with dr. Phillips Your mind is racing wildly You were foolish to believe immediately that the Dean had poisoned you foolish to run the Phillips so quickly Now you're wondering what they're going to find out there in the summer house Whether Dean Emerson is alive or dead and what you will tell them Charles ought to be through with my professor. I thought you were with Joe Well, come in. I Had a slight pain. I went to Phillips to get something for it. Oh, I'm sorry. Are you and the Dean almost through? No, as a matter of fact, there were a few more points. We had oh, well, that's all right We won't push you so kind of you to take Charles with you to the ski club doctor You're driving Emerson to the ski club. Yes. Can't come along. No. No. No, I couldn't I have I have a busy weekend. I couldn't Nervous as Charles did what's got into you too. We're nothing nothing at all. Excuse me. I must get back to the Dean You go out the rear door Wagner into the quiet night your heart pound Choking you in a surge of anxiety as you reach the green lattice building at the far edge of the lawn At first you see nothing in the dim lights of the summer house And you're almost convinced that Emerson has recovered and walked away Then your eyes focus on the sprawling shape at your feet right where you left him Emerson Emerson for heaven's sake Emerson, please Yes, Wagner dead.  Yes, Mary. I'm glad you thought of it. Oh Isn't Charles out here? He went to the chemistry building to to get a to get a copy of his article how strange There's a dozen copies in the house. It isn't like him to miss his engagements this way.  He can drive up when he's ready Well, I I'd rather Charles didn't drive over those mountain roads. He's been so nervous lately. Oh Well, I guess I've got to wait for him Too bad. Uh, wait a minute doctor. There's no use in you doing that doing what delaying your trip this way See here. Why don't I drive the Dean up in your car? Well, I thought of that, but you said you'd be busy Oh nonsense nonsense. It's nothing very urgent I don't like to leave them as in a spot like this besides in view of what you said about my being overworked You're perfectly right to change it. Do you good? Well, that's it then my car's in the garage here the Dean is kind enough to rent me his garage Here are the keys. Very nice of you professor. Oh, not at all. Well, I'll see you to the door doctor. Thanks, man It's a wild chance Wagner But you've got to take it a possible way to dispose of that burden in the shrubbery behind the garage There've been accidents before on that steep snow-covered road that winds up to the ski lodge Quickly you drag the body around into the garage and force the awkward shape into the turtle back of the doctor's car Then you hastily get behind the wheel and step on the starter Come back. No, I thought I'd pick him up at his office. Well here. I brought this bag. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you I forgot that and his glasses to he left them on the dining table. I'll take them to him I don't understand. He's forgetting them, but he can't read without them and Perhaps I'd better drive over with you. Oh, there's no need for that. I'll take care of everything You don't object to driving me to the office professor. Oh, I'm sorry. No, of course not Thank you Or he hasn't been here this role. I'm sure he rarely comes to the office at night But couldn't he have come in without you annoying it? Oh, no I have these reports that finish by morning and he gave me his key Then he didn't mean to come here at all. I don't understand it. Why don't you let me take you home, Mrs. Emerson? He's probably there by now. Well, I suppose there's nothing else to do, but I'll wait up for him I I want to be sure he's all right Quite a spot, isn't it Wagner? Mrs. Emerson determined to see her husband and his body in the turtleback of the very car you're riding in You've got to think of something Some way to get rid of her Convincer that the Dean's all right Then as you pull up to a stop sign, you notice the lights of a drugstore at the corner And you begin to see your way out. You pull over to the curb.  Just had a thought. He may be at the faculty club. I'll go into this drugstore and phone. Oh, I'll go. Oh, no, no trouble I'll only be a minute Professor Wagner there. Why, he didn't miss you a minute ago. I see.   We're in for a blizzard, but they're expecting us at the ski lodge I guess you can make it as far as the lodge all right, but you're taking a chance of being snowed in We get a storm this late in the spring. It's usually a good one. We'll we'll take that chance. Okay Sign the passenger check. Yeah, right here Other fellow will have to sign to but but he's asleep. Oh, sorry Regulations. Yes, but he's had a hard day. I I hate to disturb him. Well Okay, you sign for him. Yes. Yes. Yes Thanks.  You're getting it across Wagner They're believing you couldn't say through the windshield. That's suddenly. I knew we were going over. I called to Emerson to jump Anyway, it'll lie down, but he didn't jump. He was too late. Come on now. Don't try to talk anymore I think we better try to get Emerson from that ravine with snowden already. It'll take days It was all my fault. I shouldn't get that light back and rest All right There you are now relax and don't worry. It was an accident Nobody's going to blame you of course not it was bound to happen on that road might have been any of you You really think so? Of course now for Pete's sake relax. You need sleep. It's gonna be all right. Wagner. You can count on us The whistler will return in just a moment with a strange ending to tonight's story Meantime a word about the something extra you get when you have your car lubricated at a dealer owned signal service station Instead of taking chances on memory your signal dealer checks against signals factory recommended chart Which shows every lubrication point on your car and the exact type of oil or grease? It should have for long trouble-free life and Then just to make doubly sure not a single part has been overlooked your signal dealer checks each point again Which explains why we call it signal double-check lubrication This is typical of the many little differences in signal service that can make such a big difference in the way your car runs And the reason? Well being in business for themselves signal dealers naturally have more incentive to serve you better And now back to the whistler Well professor Wagner you're safe now safe in bed where Mason and the doctor put you after hearing your story They've assured you that no one will blame you for the accident. It was a dangerous road The snow was blinding you lost control of the doctor's car and jump clear as it plunged into the steep ravine with Dean Emerson in it No way they could know that he was already dead when he took that final plunge You sink into the warm bed exhausted from your strenuous night Limp with relief you drop off immediately and sleep heavily and under stirred for several hours Then suddenly you're wide awake trying to recognize this room this strange bed You're fighting to clear your mind when it strikes again a shattering stab of pain in your stomach You find yourself doubled up in agony the same knife-like pain you felt hours before in the summer house Doctor Doctor Phillips. What's the trouble my stomach? I paid again like before pain hold on. I'll take a look Take it easy now Hurt when I press here.  I've got to operate right now. We're there right here. You game. Yes. Yes, hurry What is it fellas is appendix gotta work fast bad not to kill him if I don't get to it right now Stay with the Mason. I'll get my instruments right good thing. He drove up in my car. There's not a thing to work with here Good Lord Mason What's the matter? What is it? My instruments I mean the car. I'll go get them. Oh, you can't my car is at the bottom of that ravine He hasn't got a chance mason We can hasn't got a chance Let that whistle be your signal for the signal oil program the whistler each Monday at 8 brought to you by the signal oil company marketers of signal gasoline and motor oil and fine quality automotive accessories Signal has asked me to remind you This is Naval Reserve week veterans of any branch of the service may keep their wartime rates by joining the peacetime Naval Reserve Ask about it at your nearest Naval Reserve headquarters Children tonight story were Charles Halton and Norman Field Whistler was produced by George W. Allen with music by Wilbur hatched story by William Engvig And was transmitted to our troops overseas by the Armed Forces radio service This is Marvin Miller speaking with a signal oil company. This is CBS the Columbia broadcasting system