faculty liaison for the Gamecock iHUB store that you see behind us, and I'm also an instructor in the Department of Retailing, so I will be helping introduce everybody today. So on behalf of everybody on the Gamecock iHUB store management team, we are excited today to have our grand opening be opening our doors to the entire community and campus and to celebrate this important addition to U of S C's campus. To kick us off, there is no better way than to start with, and he's going to come up here and begin the speakers for us, and it's amazing to have him here. It's my pleasure to introduce University of South Carolina Interim President Dr. Harris Pestides. Good morning, thank you Mike, so good to be with everybody outdoors on the horseshoe. On the historic heart of our university since 1801, and since 1801 the students have wanted an Apple iHUB. Yeah, there are legends about it, they really did. They petitioned some of them, dueled with swords, they protested, they shouted. They had contests, but we didn't have one until today. Let me greet all of our friends from government who are here today. Thank you for being here from our councils. Welcome to everybody. Our friends from Apple, you know, chicken and Apple goes together.  We don't want the bite taken out of the Gamecock though, we want a nice strong Gamecock. So right across the street there in the Burns building, we will have the place that students have been yearning for. I could not deliver it in my 11 years as president. It took Bill Kirkland. Now it took a lot of people to get this today. I've really been an Apple fan and I have no conflict of interest. I don't know them stock and if anybody prefers the other brands that's perfectly okay. But personally, my first Apple computer, and this will date me now, was an Apple IIe. Like a television set, it had a floppy disk, five and a quarter inches. It had 64K RAM expandable to 128 for another $250. The unit cost over $1,000, but for another 250 I could expand that RAM to 128. Of course there was no internal drive. Everything that you stored had to be on a diskette, as we called it. Elephant's memory was the brand of the diskette. I learned to program in order to teach my students how to do epidemiological calculations like relative risk and odds ratios using basic, the basic language. And I'm very sentimental about that computer. Through the years, I was an early adopter of Macintosh, do you remember the smaller units? How exciting to have a hard, it was still a floppy disk if you will, it was an external disk, three and a half inches now, plastic, could come in cream color or blue, I mean I remember them more than my early girlfriends, I really do. And also, although Patricia is mad at me, I kept most of them. So I've got a little pastides Apple Museum in my basement, they're a little moldy, they're going to need to be cleaned up if I ever do anything. Occasionally I look on eBay to see what they're worth, but it's actually, I don't think I could buy a sandwich from Beezer's if I were to sell any of those. But this is also about the students not who will be acquiring or having things repaired across the street, but who will be running it. This is experiential learning at its best. So we are, we are expectant about the experiences that students will have as well supervised by the department of retailing and the entire college. That's going to be a bustling place, eventually who knows, a big, fancy Apple store, maybe on Main Street, let's show Apple what we could do, not only in acquiring but in learning. Let's teach Apple, I'm talking Cupertino Apple, I'm talking the most highly valued company in the world and in the history of the world by the way, that trucks go by. Let's teach them something that they didn't know. And you know what? With all due respect for the faculty here, it's probably going to come from a student or a group of students who are going to be able to say, guess what? We found a way to improve the Apple, where Apple is a company. So for me it's just one of the shining lights. I returned on May 21st, by the way, thinking the pandemic had receded in the rear-view mirror. And now I see it in the side-view mirror, sometimes across the windshield. I thought I got lucky and took the pandemic off. And here we are again now with the Delta variant, but the mask is the new normal. It will be the new normal in the Gamecock i-hub as well. But I'm very hopeful. You know, the students are returning this weekend. Get ready for no parking, lots of traffic. But you love it. You wouldn't love the university or the town of Columbia, the city, if you didn't love them. And that's who we're here for. So we're telling them the new normal is a normal with face masks indoors when you can't social distance. Just about everything else we're going to try to keep normal. Lots of people at Williams Brice, lots of people on the horseshoes, sorority, fraternity rush, classroom teaching and learning with a mask. We're going to incentivize vaccination. We're going to make it fun. We're going to role model vaccination status. And we're going to tell them today the new normal requires a mask. If we get vaccinated and we all do our part tomorrow, maybe we could take them off. So thank you and congratulations to everybody here. I'm so excited for the Gamecock i-hub. And I need a little fine tuning on my desktop. So I think I'll be one of the first customers. Thank you for being here, everyone. Thank you. Next up is Department of Retailing Chair Jeff Campbell. Good morning, everybody. President Pastides is definitely a tough act to follow, so I'm going to go ahead and do my best to explain how things kind of transpired and to first say thank you. Most of all, to say thank you to the university community for embracing this. Hello to our special guests that are here today. And really think about this in terms of, you know, we like to say that it takes a village to raise a child. And realistically what has happened is having seen this over the course of 13, 14 months, it really has taken a university to raise a retailing store. There's so many people to thank and, you know, we have very limited time to do that, but I would do want to call out and say thank you very much to, you know, the group at Apple. They've been phenomenal to work with from day one. You know, the guidance that they've given our department, the instruction, the what to do, what not to do has been really important. I also want to make a special thank you to Mr. Bill Kirkland, Jay Henderson, Kelly Epting, who spent a ton of time helping us get this thing ready to go. You don't see the behind the scenes thing, but certainly it's important for us and it's been an important part of our process. We're excited about working with the services side, Eliza Matheson, her group, so I'm excited that that's going to be moving forward. And I do want to make a special call out to Chris Murdner, who is the project manager for this particular project, and he's done a phenomenal job as well. It's one of those things where Mike Watson, our faculty liaison, and Sondra Kester's have put in a lot of time and a lot of energy. And I could not have picked, as a department chair, two better people to oversee that project with more experience than those two.  And I feel like I've certainly found that in those two, so thank you. One of the biggest things, too, is I want to say quickly how much we appreciate the Board of Trustees and the University of South Carolina supporting our retailing department and allowing us to take charge of this. It's been really a game changer for us in a lot of ways. One of the things, we talk about the student internships, which is incredibly important, but there's other things that we're doing with the store. We're taking data from that store and actually embedding it into our different classes. We have classes in category management. We have classes in asset protection, digital retailing, product development. All of those things, perspectives of retail that people don't typically see. So not only are students getting better learning outcomes by working in the store through their practicums, but they're also getting better learning through the classroom experience. It's helping faculty and it's certainly going to help us down the road when we continue to partner with Apple on various projects. So I wanted to make note of that. And the last thing to finish up, I just want to say, I've been doing a lot of recruiting for our department over the past year as department chair. And you would not believe how many students from high school coming into the University of South Carolina looking at our program, how that's actually positively impacted our program and our growth already. We're seeing it from the students. We're seeing it from the parents. And it's something that when I ask them why they were looking at our program, the technology piece is really important. So I want to make sure when I ask them, what was it that really turned the corner and made you decide to come to South Carolina? And they would typically say, I never knew that about the department of retailing. And so we see this Apple Store as one of those conduits for us to be able to move forward and really grow the program. And we're starting to see benefits from that. So I'd like to say thank you again to everybody. Invite everybody over. Please buy Apple. It's a retailing thing. And I'm going to go ahead and turn it back to Mike and have him introduce our student interns. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Representing all interns, no pressure at all. Representing all interns over there at the Gamecock I Hub will be Sarah Fowler. Good morning, President Pastides and all of our other distinguished guests. As Dr. Mike said, my name is Sarah Fowler. And I'm currently a senior here at the University of South Carolina majoring in retailing. This summer I had the awesome opportunity to be in the first group of Gamecock interns, Gamecock I Hub interns. And it was just overall just an awesome experience. I think this kind of opportunity to bring this store as an Apple Store, basically, to life on campus is so beneficial not only to myself, but to faculty and staff who can now buy from us. And a great selling point for the university because it is quite an experience to be able to intern under such a distinguished brand like Apple who's known for their innovation, their technology, and their design. My teammates and I can definitely say that we're proud to be part of Gamecock I Hub and it's definitely a reason I'd say why it's so special to be here at the University of South Carolina and why it's always great to be a Gamecock and not a tiger, I will say, how to put that in there. My teammates and I got to dive into all kinds of aspects for opening a store, which is not something a lot of people get to do. We did everything from research and help choose an asset protection company to secure all of our products. We worked on developing a social media strategy plan for all of our store social accounts, which all of you should follow. We did things like work through challenges of building shelving units for our inventory room with not working air conditioning in the store, which I can tell you is very hot, but it is not working, so don't worry. And all of these different things will definitely give us a competitive edge going into just our future careers and really the confidence in being able to say, we've done this, we've been a part of it, so what's another store opening? And with that, I just want to thank the University of South Carolina, the Department of Retailing, and Apple for creating this opportunity for all of us students, not only myself and my fellow interns, but the future interns of the store and everyone who gets to benefit from this kind of store. And I'd also like to thank, while I'm up here, Dr. Watson for being an amazing person to work under as the store director. My manager, Sandra, who is actually over at the store right now, she's been awesome to work under and one of the best managers I've ever had. And then Dr. Campbell for being a part of hiring me, so thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. Well done on the end, that's probably plus five in my next class. All right, up next will be University Vice President for Information Technology and Chief Information Officer, Doug Foster. All of us, technology enthusiasts, really excited about this. The piece that's happening with our Division of Information Technology is the service side of this. Not sure we can help with the Apple IIE, but there's a component that will exist in the store that will be for students, faculty, staff, alumni, all to come bring personal devices and get them serviced at the store. So that's really exciting. The way that's going to happen for students, it's another opportunity for them is they will get special training from Apple to service these devices and they will become Apple authorized technicians, which is a pretty impressive credential. Not only will they get the technical training, but they're also going to get a great experience with partners on the retail side to be learning customer service, leadership. Lots of learning things are going to be happening here with the students outside of just pure technology. The other thing that I would be remiss in, sort of missing here, is that one of the components of the store or the service side of this is that it's really going to be a wide open sort of platform. At the moment, we're going to be supporting computers and some of those components. But as this goes on, this is just going to grow and we're really excited about what this could become. As Dr. Pastides had talked about, there's a great opportunity. There's a lot of headspace here for this to become a really big thing and we're super excited about that. The last thing I would want to do is just say thank you to members of my team. My team, along with the retail group, have spent lots and lots of time that you won't see, but it's a phenomenal collaboration. I'd like to thank Eliza Mathis for sort of leading that effort for us. Liz Scherke, Max whiskey, Michelle Foster, all and many others who all did a really phenomenal job on this. We're super excited. The students are going to have a great learning experience. The last piece that I would want to do here is thank Bill Kirkland for his leadership on this. I remember when these conversations started, Bill sort of grabbed this opportunity and ran with it and through his patience and persistence, we are now standing here today. So thank you, Bill, for that. Thank you. It's a good segue, Doug. So up next is Office of Economic Engagement Executive Director, Bill Kirkland. And don't worry that I brought notes up here with me. It'll be quick because it's hot. And Pam planned it where the sun would start shining on me at this moment. Thanks, Pam. I'd like to thank anyone for coming today. This is an exciting day. Also, there's a couple of Apple people here in attendance.  But Rusty, thank you. I will not say his last name. That starts with a B. But Rusty is a great guy. He started with Pete Davis and others at Apple, and we're here today. So thank you again, sir. Also, I'll just let you know with Dr. Pastides, actually, this started about three years ago with his vision. And y'all know Dr. Pastides doesn't like to take a lot of credit for things. But at the end of the day, we sat in his office, and he said, can we make this happen? And I said, I never, hopefully never let him down so far, thank God. But we put it together and got with Ed Walton and really started working on what this could be. And then I sat with Doug Foster. And Doug looks at me strange sometimes, but he was OK with this one. And we made it happen. So I want to thank my entire team, Doug, your entire team. Derek Grumer, Derek's here somewhere. His entire team, because it was an HRSM, and Jeff, and all the other folks for really putting this together. And we're excited about it. Also, I want to call out. And then I'm going to just say a couple words and step down and give it to our city and county council members. But I really want to thank Kelly Epting. I'm going to actually ask her to stand up, if y'all don't mind. Can you stand up? Because seriously, the South Carolina Research Foundation is the key to making this happen. And we work with our Harding team, led by Pam Dunley, to ensure that we have the operation side of this entire process structured in a way that we won't have any hiccups. Our challenges, and Jeff and others, have been right alongside of that. So the operational plan is rather thick. But we're just ensuring we're doing all the right things right. And thank you, Kelly, for the South Carolina Research Foundation, the things you do. Lastly, I want to thank you is Doug Foster, Mike, and Sandra. She's over there, and Mike's here. We're for partnering on this project. We put it together. It's been a challenge. Jay Henderson on my team has been driving hard, and it's worked, and we're excited. If you look at this, and Dr. Pastiz mentioned it, which makes us very excited. This is a learning lab for the students. Thank you again for your words about the heck with Clemson. Go, Carolina. Thank you. But at the end of the day, if you think about, like, the Menero Airspace Center, it's a learning lab for engineering students. If you think about McCutcheon House, which is in HRSM, that's the hospitality side. It's run by students. If you think about the Kennedy Pharmaceutical Innovation Center, which sits in Provost Cutler's shop, that's a learning lab. So as we go through all these things, these are learning labs that Dr. Pastiz has a vision coming in to make these things happen, and our students are getting hands-on experience. And on the resumes, it's nice to have Apple in the resume, I'm assuming. That's not a bad thing. Also, I just want to let you know that our partnership with Apple, it's not just this. About three or four months, maybe five months ago, we announced a partnership with the governor's office along with Benedict College, Benedict University, looking at the iMac labs, and looking at our underserved communities across the state, and really what you'd call the internet desert. And we announced that we're doing it in a partnership along with the governor's office to put these iMac learning labs in the rural areas of South Carolina where there's limited internet access. And Apple's our true partner here because they're providing all the equipment we're paying for a discounted rate, thank you, again, Apple. But also at the end of the day, they're providing all the software and the training and the educational materials to tape these, this Apple Mac lab, and put it across the state to include that USC union and others. So we're actually out using our leveraging a pair of college and our regional campuses to deliver Apple and state art technology and training. Not only the K-12, affiliate HBCUs, and also affiliated with the tech schools and the community. So this is our approach to statewide learning. So I just want to point it out, it's not just one thing, there are other things prior to this. And the last thing I want to do is not the last thing, but like for Chairman Livingston-Paul Livingston to stand up, he's a chairman of the Russell County Council who's always supportive of everything we do. And the last thing is not the last, but Provost Cutler, I appreciate you being here and this thing you've done to lead our universe for the last few months as our provost. And I think it might, is it me now to continue or you? Okay. Okay. Trying to save your time. Thank you again for coming. Thanks, Sean. All right, up next from our Columbia City Council is Will Brennan. Morning Game Contination. How's everybody today? On behalf of Mayor Steve Benjamin, my fellow city council members in the city of Columbia, let me say how excited we are to finally have an Apple store here in Columbia. We couldn't be more thrilled about this innovative partnership between the College of Hospitality, Retail, Sports Management, and Apple to create the Gamecock iHub. A very impressive component as it's been stated to the iHub is that it'll be managed and operated by students, allowing them to gain the retail tech experience that will be invaluable as our tech economy continues to grow, not only here in Columbia and Richland County, but in this state. And we at the City of Columbia look to continue to build a partnership with the University of South Carolina to foster new tech small businesses and grow our little economy here from the inside out. Keeping the talent that comes through this top notch USC educational system is a priority for all of us. Just think about where we could take Columbia and Richland County if we are successful at giving our local talent the opportunities to innovate, to grow, and to expand. The Gamecock iHub is a wonderful stepping stone to build towards that success. And we at the City are thankful for today's grand opening and for the future of fostering the technology talent that's here on this campus. And in closing, Dr. Pastides, I'll be right there behind you in line because this software update on my iPhone is killing me, so I need some help. Thank you all. Thank you. All right, our final speaker today from Richland County Council is Overture Walker. Thank you everyone and good morning. I want to say thank you to the University of South Carolina family. I also want to give a special thank you to Director Bill Kirkland for inviting me back to my alma mater to be a part of this historic occasion here at the storied and venerable horseshoe. I'd also like to give a thank you, well, recognize rather the chairman of Richland County Council. He's my chairman and my dear colleague, Paul Liviston, he is here this morning along with I to show the county support for this partnership. From President Pastides and the Board of Trustees, to Bill Kirkland and his team in the Office of Innovation and Partnerships in Economic Engagement, I think you truly have some of the best and brightest minds on constantly working to enhance the learning experience of students and conjure up ways to put the university at the vanguard of innovation and economic development. So today's grand opening of the Gamecock IHUB, which is the first student run Apple store in the region, is evidence of their commitment to the university serving as a hub for business development, but also a manifestation of their vision to expand the experiential learning model here on campus. So to President Pastides and the Board, Bill and your team in the Office of Economic Development, as well as others, please know that the county is grateful for your commitment to cultivating the young, brilliant minds here on campus and for your willingness to stand at the vanguard of economic development and innovation here in Richland County. Furthermore, we at the county recognize the value and the importance of public-private partnerships so you can count on the county's support on this initiative as well as similar ones in the future. I also want to acknowledge our friends at Apple. As I think of the opening of this Apple store directly behind me, a verse from one of my favorite music artists comes to mind. The stanza goes, you could have been anywhere in the world but you're right here with me. Well, when you think of Apple's track record as a global innovator that has transformed nearly every facet of our lives here on the planet, you know, from government and education to the economy and healthcare, they literally could have gone anywhere else in the world to open up a campus store. But Apple is right here at the University of South Carolina and right here with us in Richland County. And so I can't begin to tell you just how excited we are to have one of the premier multinational and technology leaders in the world establish a footprint rather right here in Richland County. And I think my friends at the city of Columbia on Councilman Brennan would agree when I say that this is a big step in the right direction for economic development here in the Midlands. So while we gather here today to celebrate the opening of a campus store, I'm optimistic that this is a harbinger of a much larger partnership with Apple. This store I believe will be the catalyst for future investment from Apple in our city and county. So to my friends at Apple, thank you for recognizing the strength and the potential of the economic market here in the city as well as in Richland County and know that we are beyond ecstatic to have the Apple brand right here in Richland County. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Walker. And thank you everybody that has spoken today that has supported us throughout these past months and that is here in attendance. So please just one last round of applause for everybody that spoke today and is here. Thank you. Dr. Pastides has already mentioned the mask. We have plenty of masks over at the store for you if you need them. And we would now like to officially welcome you over and invite you over to walk across the street and open the doors and tour the store. Thank you.


Welcome to Art Resin 101. To get started with Art Resin, first prep your workspace and your art piece.  Make sure that your artwork is completely dry before applying Art Resin. If your work is on a large canvas, you'll want to reinforce it at the back with some cardboard to prevent the resin from pooling in the center. If your artwork involves ink, paper, or anything that has the potential to bleed or become saturated under the wet resin, we recommend you pre-seal your piece. If you plan to resin the sides of your piece, tape the underside of your artwork to catch any drips.  To determine how much Art Resin you'll need, use Art Resin Coverage Calculator at artresin.com slash calculator. Some people like to warm their resin and hardener in a water bath before measuring it out to reduce bubbles. Just make sure not to get any water in the resin or hardener, as it will turn the mixture cloudy. With gloves on, pour by volume precisely equal amounts of room temperature resin and hardener into a mixing container. Remember to replace the proper cap on each bottle once you're done pouring. Black for resin, white for hardener. Stir your resin and hardener mixture thoroughly for at least three full minutes. You'll want to scrape along the sides and bottom of the container as you stir to ensure the entire mixture will catalyze properly and therefore cure as expected. If you see bubbles forming during this step, don't worry, we'll take care of them. Once you've mixed both the resin and hardener together, you'll have about 45 minutes of working time to spread it before it starts to cure. If your mixture is warmer than room temperature, your working time and cure time will be decreased. Pour and spread the art resin as you see fit. If you intend to coat the entire piece, start by pouring in the center. Use a spreader to guide it exactly where you want it to go. Or you can use a disposable brush to embellish only certain areas of your piece. You can resin the sides with a disposable brush or your gloved hand. Or just let it dome neatly on top. After spreading the art resin, air bubbles will begin to rise to the surface. We recommend using our artist torch to pop bubbles for a flawless finish. Just hold the torch a few inches away from the surface, moving it constantly like you would iron clothes. Pick out any hairs or dust particles with a toothpick and then cover the piece with a box to protect it from dust and let it sit overnight. In about 24 hours, your piece will be hard to the touch. After 72 hours, it will be fully cured. And don't forget, cure time will be decreased in a warmer room. To clean and reuse your mixing tools, wipe them down with a paper towel promptly after use. Spritz with rubbing or denatured alcohol. And wipe down again for a final clean. If necessary, wash skin promptly with soap and water. If you've taped off the underside of your piece, remove tape carefully no later than 24 hours post-pore. And voila! Behold your wonderful creation!


Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another Adobe After Effects tutorial. In this one, I'm going to show you how to add text behind a subject, or an object, or a person, or anything, a thing just like this. Let me show you what I got here. I'll hit space bar and presto. We've got good boy. We've got this puppy dog coming in and doing his thing, looking in a mirror. And the text is behind him. Let me show you the original shot. This is what we got to begin with. And then like I showed you what we had there at the end, how did I do it? Nice and simple. Let's start from scratch. Here we go. OK, I'm just going to do a short clip here because there is a little bit of rotoscoping going on and it takes some resources, quite a bit of resources. So it's just going to be a short clip. OK, first step here. We're going to go ahead and add our footage in like I've done. Now we're going to go up and edit and we're going to click duplicate. So we've got two layers. Let's turn the bottom layer off so we're working on the top layer to begin with. OK, the next step is you want to go up to the top here and you'll see a roto brush tool. This is the one we want. Make sure your playhead is at the beginning or wherever you want the rotoscoping to begin. And now double click on the video. And this is going to take you to the layer panel or the source panel. Now, making sure that you've got roto brush, roto brush selected like I have here, roto brush. What the heck is that? Rotor brush selected. I'm going to go ahead and paint all over the poppers just like this. And watch what happens. It's selecting his body and we're just going to get it in. There we go. But there's a little bit stuff that I don't want. So I'm going to hold down the alt or the option key, depending on if you're on a PC or Mac. And I'm just going to cut out some of this stuff by basically just drawing a line over what I don't want. So this looks pretty good. It's not quite perfect, but it's getting there. And I'll just cut this out and I'm moving a little bit closer and cut that. OK, good enough for now. Maybe I'll take the front face. OK, good. Now, what you want to do is you just want to move your playhead forward like I'm doing here and just check to make sure that the purple parts are correct. So you've got the subject or the object in like this part here. It's broken, so I'm just going to just scooch over that just like that. And I'm going to get that part there as well. I'm going to move forward a frame or two. Let's go a frame. OK, this is looking pretty good. Good. Good. This is looking pretty good, actually. So we've done a pretty good job. Rotobrush 2.0, the new version is absolutely bonkers inside after effects. So you see what we're doing here. We're just basically going through and any time you see a frame that's missing something, let's see if I can find one. No, this is pretty darn good. I'm not going to lie about it. There we go. OK, yes, this frame right here. We didn't catch this part of the tail. So I'm going to go and zip that in and this parts too much. So I'm going to take that out and then I'm going to move forward a frame. Good. Good. Good. OK, good. This is how you do it now. Now that we've done that, now what we're going to do is we're going to go back to the composition. Watch this. When I go back to the composition, you're going to see that this is all the back. The background is black now. That basically means we've taken it out. Now what you want to do is you want to turn the old one back on as well. So you've got both loaded. So you've got the bottom and the top. The next step is you want to go up here to the text tool, click on the type tool or the text tool. And then right in whatever you wanted to say. I wanted to say, good boy. OK, good stuff. I'm just going to go over to the selection tool and I'm going to center it ish, maybe somewhere around there. And then presto. Now if I move forward, we're not quite there, but we're getting close. OK, maybe I'll move it to the right a bit. Now the next step is you want to take that text, put it between the two videos. This is now a sandwich and now watch what we've got. I'll hit spacebar. Hey, yo, we've rotoscoped it in. The pupper dog is there. This looks great. This is how you do it inside Adobe After Effects real quick. Thanks for watching. A ton more stuff coming up. Stay tuned.


Hi folks, I'm Steve, I work for ARM and I'm a Debian developer, I know it's calling me to Lenovo. Lucky over here is much the same, and is hopefully going to talk as well. What is he always saying? Or maybe not. I just want to do a quick update on the state of the multiple ARM ports in Debian. Where we are, and what's coming soon. And also I want to hear what you guys have to say, and whatever questions you might have. Sorry about this, short delay. Quick agenda, maybe breathe from through the three ports. The build is the whole, we're using discussion. That's where you guys all join in as well please. Somebody take notes in Gobi? Neil, you seem to be good at this. My usual thing is for any session that I'm running, we can get Gobi notes. I will send out summaries to, I will blog about it on the planet, and I will send a summary out to a public mailing list later. I try to do this every year because I think it really helps so everyone's aware of the discussion. So, RML is the oldest of the existing ARM ports, first released with Lenny, which is quite a while ago. Softloat HVI targeting ARM V14 and higher, still needed for some older hardware. The most common hardware by far that is still using RML is stuff like the plug computer, and a lot of the nav boxes that people have bought. The old QNAS and a few other things. It's still supported upstream. There's still a lot of work going on in the kernel to support some of these older devices, but probably not for much longer. I don't know how long we should continue to support this. I spoke to Ben, one of our kernel maintenance about this earlier. He would love to see RML go away because it does cause him a lot of hassle. I'm going to ask the question, how long should we continue to support RML? How many people here have something that leads RML? There are a lot of users. You know, I might as well be able to say something on that. Oh, sure. Yes. How many people, if we said today, we're not going to release RML with stretch would cry? But I mean, I'm the one... Stand up and talk. I mean, I did a lot of the... Yeah. I did a lot of support for all the teams. The code was in all of those. Yeah. And there are a lot of users to that. So I think that we stretch out to even one more release. Okay. I think maybe sub-arches are the things you should be thinking about. Whether we release with the QNAS or IXP4XX or the other one. I'm just going to have to go up the button. Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, the alternative, and again, sort of, you've been about this earlier, could we possibly get the people who care about this to support RML for an LTS, or Jesse, or maybe stretch? And then for those people who care with a reduced package set, could still continue to run this. I mean, for most people... Martin, what users are you supporting? It's basically NAS boxes, isn't it? Yeah. So for those people, we don't need any graphics. Right. We don't need anything beyond, to be honest, kernel and network servers. Yeah. And the same for the Freedombox stuff and all. Yeah, fine. Of course, yeah, Freedombox is an RBL device as well. Well, some of them are. Some of them are, yes. For example, Freedombox. Yes. So things that overwhelm me cook with. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's something I think we should be considering, because to be honest, otherwise, we're continuing to expend a vast amount of effort. Computer effort, fine, we don't care about it. We don't build hardware for these. But for the people who have to actually spend real human time doing this, unless it's important, let's make it easier for those folks. Oh yeah. Is that mostly kernel size? Because the kernel size is what keeps on biting. Right. But that's not something we cook with. It depends on the device as I understand it. Yeah. So I mean, we can talk to Ben to see if there's any time we can drop. Sure. If I'm correctly informed, IXP will definitely not be in the next release. If I remember correctly, Ben definitely said he will not support it for another release. Sure. Yeah, I think you've dropped him. Yeah. So I understand Ben being a medicine post. He's had to do a lot of this work. He doesn't particularly care. He doesn't have any of this hardware. Obviously, we can all take that to use that as an argument. But equally, he's been doing it regardless for a number of years. So we need to have the send Ben record boxes. So my feeling is that the ones that people are actually using are not the ones with massively restricted flash. Yeah. And so start to phase those out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've had this discussion every year for the last few years and we worked out that, OK, the white answer for people who care about those restricted ones is white to trivial boot load you can put in flash. And I've seen no effort at all going into it. Because to be honest, the people who might care are not the people who probably have the technical knowledge to do it. All my ones have big enough flash. Yeah, well, yes. Fine. I wonder why. So this is, so are we in agreement that we may not have Armiella stretch, or at least if it is, it will be in a much reduced form. I mean, subarches, it sounds like a good plan, but we've been taught about it for years and we've never really done it. Yeah. We only have it. I'm talking about some of the existing ones. Yeah. I mean, apart from the kernel, is there any reason we can't have it in stretch? I mean, it still supports it up. The tool chain support's still working. Is it often not sure that threatening's taken away just yet? No. The tool chain support is never going to go away because there are still a lot of devices out there. Are we still selling on 70M hearts, for example? Yeah. It's just, I also understand that Debian is the only distro that sensibly supports the V5 devices for a lot of these people. It's the only distro that's ever really done in bunch. I think they're actually still selling that Armie 5 Kirchwood base and mask devices on the market. So I don't think we're dropping things to much. Kirchwood is actually being retained in the network. I mean, they're actively improving it. So we definitely need to have this as a discussion with a wider audience. Until there's a mechanism for going to part of an architecture in parts that we pretty much have to keep it going. So, well, I guess we can turn off, you know, if the open office stops working in Armie L for some ridiculous reason and nobody can be asked to fix it, we can just disable it at that architecture. And, you know, a lot of the bigger desktop stuff is just, it's not useful on the typical Armie L device. We know that. So, yeah, we can selectively just kill things if nobody wants to work on them. Except for software and platforms. Yeah, that's it, yeah. OHS is the default 32-bit ARM platform these days. Thankfully, we got almost all of this supposed to agree to this a few years ago. Again, I'm pouting what I said last year and the year before and whatever about this. With the RMP kernels, the two of them, one with LPA and one without, basically, it should be capable of supporting not on any reasonable R and V7 platform that is available in the market. So, long as we keep on getting updated DTPs and drivers, they should just work. They didn't go to the usual question on what's about V40, V5. And that's the only cause it's some extra aggravation because things break for V40 and they wouldn't work for V5 because nobody else in the world built it. There is that too, to be honest. We're probably already accidentally building something for V5 already and nobody's complaining. So, I think now we probably could just say we don't care at all. Does anybody here have an ARM V40 device that would break it if our real chair moved? I don't know, music. Does anyone have all that they care about? Yeah. Don't let them ask when anybody applied power to one of the other more than one person. That's what he comes down to. It's a discussion. I mean, we've been having the beginnings of this discussion for the last few years. We'll go on to it. So, I'll make sure... To be honest, there isn't a huge amount to say. There are still, and this hoifers me, people producing new ARM V7 CPUs that don't work with this. It's hilarious. We found one in Lenovo a couple of weeks back. I'm not going to name it, but someone who's shipped... who's just shipped literally in the last few months a new ARM V7 platform without any floating point at all and then said, oh, of course we want Debian and Ubuntu and everything to work on this. And they got quite offended when we left that. This is very widely supported. Modulo, some kernel stuff that we're not going to have booting. This will work on a Pi 2, the Huawei food, the BeagleBone Black, obviously, the QB trucks. There's all of the one board devices. I'm not going to list even remotely all the devices that support almost any current sensible ARM devices going to be a V7 or higher and will work here. And then we have ARM64, which last time we spoke about this and only just got into the archive. Super new and shiny and really, really cool. It's working. It's boring. Not quite. It's working well. There's still bits of the archive that don't work on ARM64. Again, anyone in Matt Doug's talk this morning will have seen he's still organising a contest to encourage people to help porting to ARM64 and even also optimising for ARM64. There's still bits and pieces of the language support. Those pesky languages which have their own runtime within themselves. So you need to be a guru in how the language works and in any new architecture that you need to port it to. Really, really hard. Anybody a fan of SBCL or C-List who can do with a list of implementation that worked? Hands up. I know what you're saying. That's pretty good, right? Exactly. So the obvious big ones. There's a few more things that actually use this. The obvious big ones are worked on because, commercially, they're very important. So we have a, I believe, a fully functional Java port from the Red Hat work done. We have people in Lenovo work done and it's all great. We have... JavaScript support is basically done. However, there are still any number of problems with JavaScript in Debian, like Node.js I think still is not yet working on ARM64. So Node.js does actually have the right mid-8 which is not in Debian. That's slapped up. Yeah. But if there is plenty of scope if you want to get involved and help, please do. You can get rich queued off. So maybe, if you ask it nicely, we'll buy you beer or something. We might even find you hardware if you're really keen. Talking of hardware, yes. Just a short remark. Rain and I are among maintainers of the free Flaskal compiler. It's... Support upstream is already there but not in the stable release. So the moment that they release a new version, we will be working on getting that finished off. Yeah, I think there's a few languages upstream have done, but... Because of the release cycle, it's not percolated, but I expect those to arrive soon. Yeah. There's a monocore, but it's stuck behind commercial doors, which is very annoying. They've been done, but nobody wants to pay for it so they don't want to release it until they can get somebody to... to give them money. So hopefully to... So the big question with this, with R64, and it's not, it's almost, almost something we can answer is, so when can we get older devices? Lenovo has the 96 boards initiative so there are a few devices available. I'll be brutally honest, not going to get slapped with it. I don't think they're very useful yet. They will be. Awesome. Regarding the 96 boards initiative, is there any board in there that actually has upstream current support properly working? Because I have not found any when looking. Not yet, not yet. This space. They're coming real soon now. There is a board that's on a desk burning their mind which has that but I can't see anyone like that. There's a whole... There's a slew of those, I mean to be honest, applied micro or selling the Mustang... So the HG is the name of this... HG is one, wasn't it? Yes. It's now available in a number of form factors. You can actually buy servers based on it right here, right now. Yeah, Gigabyte is selling it. Gigabyte is selling it. Gigabyte is selling it. Asus are selling it. You know, well-known, fairly well-known PC component manufacturers are going to be selling these right now if you want to go and find them. You'll be able to find them in normal retail but if you have the right contacts you should be able to get some. And there's a certain one over there which... Yes, but various other people are working on other things. Certain people may even have an R64 powered laptop here right here today. What is that? Do you want to give us a quick look? What? Is there a boot? No. No, apparently there isn't a boot. It's still probably much underdeveloped. I would say it's underdeveloped. It's underdeveloped. We've seen it booted already. It's very boring. It looks like a desktop. This is the point when you know it all works. To be honest, it all just works and there's nothing to actually worry about. Plug it into the projector then. Where? We'll try it.  He's going for it. I can't turn it on because everyone around me will complain. There's a workstation form factor for it. There would be space in the data center on the four screens. I have four ports. I have four ports in Sunday Mail but I'd be happy to give up. Yes, no. So we have three ports. One is becoming available. There are commodity things that are going to be available but hopefully if we make enough noise and convince the vendors, it might go mainstream. That's what we're hoping for. We have an on64 laptop project here. I'm involved in another one with a bunch of people here that we bogged down in last year struggling to get SOC vendors to talk to us. That's the issue. The SOC vendors who are struggling to ship deathboards yet aren't interested in talking to you. That's a painful fact of life. The nice thing about on64 is it's been designed properly as a real system from the get-go. It's much more tightly constrained than onV7 in terms of the things that we're going to be seeing. So it should work with a single kernel and a DTB. ACPI is a part of the spec if you're going to do an on64-based server. It's all going into the kernel. It's all basically mainline. Modulo bugs, they should all just be working now. On64 is the other platform where our installer will UEFI boot and just work. It looks just like a PC. It just isn't. It's a decent hardware. We still have a stack of deathboards in on. In fact, I was just talking to one of my co-workers today. We had a maintenance weekend there over the weekend which wasn't scheduled to lose power to this whack what apparently happened. These things sometimes do.  We've got a load of donated ModoXP. Which are on V7. They were on RHF. We still have one remaining FreeSkill IMX53 which before we used to use the building were really nice stable machines but oh god were they slow. We still have one as a portabox so people can test. It has neon, the Marvel ones don't. So if people need to make sure that they actually verify what code they're running it will give it going as long as the hardware's alive. We have several different types of R64 machine. We have a couple of Juno's that were being loaned to us by ARM. The ones that basically built most of the archive was to get into GSE. They're still going strong. If anything they've been getting better with time. With newer firmware they now just work with UFI and everything. We have been donated an APM box and Mustang is also in the Wacka arm. I have an AMD Seattle on my desk but unfortunately as an early web it's never going to be supported by a mainline kernel which is why it's still on my desk. It's a really useful build box but it's no use because the kernel on it is shocking the old one and really not something you'd ever want to connect to a network. There's issues though we can see the end is getting there we would really like to actually replace the deathboards.  As we just found this weekend the nice thing with ARM v8 and the ARM 64 support as and when real hardware becomes available hopefully the nice people who are selling these things can donate some. Then we can get we can use stuff hosted we can get things going and the big ARM 64 boxes that are coming up really fast they will compete quite readily core for core with an AMD 64 box maybe not be quite as fast but they'll use significantly less power is the kind of the point if we have real computers we're not just running on tiny deathboards anymore. Steve, when we get ARM 64 donations over there are we going to return the ARM v7 supports and use students on the ARM 64 to do the ARM 64? I was going to ask that question It's a very good question I was going to come to honest. It kind of goes to the how many cores do you have? Sure. Once we get to ARM 64 of course it will run ARM v7 quite happily. This is also where ARM vL becomes problematic. Some of the software that we run on ARM vL cannot actually run sanely on directly on the hardware on the ARM 64 beyond the 8 machines. The newer machines v7 and up have really good same primitives for barriers and locking the older v5 or v4 t especially doesn't It's an incentive for moving to v5 because you have to use vx on v4 t and you don't have to do any v5 more than they still get to use anyway.  What we've actually found is already I found this I posted that we have a cost distro list for the ARM people in all of the different load distros. What we found was we had some software in the archive built for ARM HF but while it's v7 and it's supported it was built using some really bad old config that meant it was using really really old barriers and locking primitives the moment you tried to run it on an ARM v8 it just went bleh and fell over right there. We've done some digging through the archive to see what's left it will fix itself over time we hope but it does mean we can't sensibly build v4t old stuff using an ARM v8 server there is work ongoing by ARM and others to add kernel exception handling for some of those so you can provide a really really slow path to catch it and make your software not crash but it'll be about a thousand times slower than it should be so it's not really an option if you're going to be building a tested software that way. Well actually I think the kernel is already doing these kind of traps with your ARM v7 and ARM v8 SWD construction shut up. And it's a thousand times slower on a processor than on a processor. And you don't use your lock and lock. To be honest the nice thing is the mobile boxes are actually themselves really fast they're quad core clocked up well they've got 4 gigs of RAM again these might be dev boards but they're actually really nice dev boards they're almost servers of mobile. I think we've convinced some people to sell servers based on the same chip set and it basically works okay. What's the problem fanning? Yes. So that's all I wanted to really present the problem it's not pretty five minutes already what else do people want to talk about? I'd look up some scientific software the unit tests time out and get killed on architectures I was just wondering what the best practice is just to skip the unit tests or just not to build at all. To be honest if the unit tests are showing problems they run fine on real hardware they just run out of time they get killed after 150 minutes or something on the buildy page. Just email us at maintainers and we'll set up the time out longer for your package. Or it might be showing that there is a real problem. Do we know how long they run for? I don't know if it tells me. If it's something that's showing locking it might be showing there's been a deadlock and that's why you're not seeing any output. Sometimes I've done myself before now actually go and modify the software just to put a print eff in every minute of something just to show it's still alive we'll actually also fix this. And then stick it on a photo box and watch and wait for it to finish and see how long it actually takes. I said definitely definitely I said unit tests to awesome because they do find these things it's quite rare that if something has an output for two and a half hours that normally is an indication of something wrong or your unit test is just not that well with. Yeah so a bit of output is effective yeah all aspects of the delay if we know that it doesn't work possibly there's underlying optimization from this thing so for example the Doe's suite uses a camel which architectures where there's a faster camel optimized version it takes five minutes or 20 minutes of something on a box it takes five or six hours on 64 I think because it's not optimized. Yeah so that sometimes. The other thing to do is ask on the internet which is a software there's loads of this on there if we think it's interesting or we think it's useful you might find one and have a look as well. Equally a very old find it's certainly not worse having it for RME L. RME R1 from HF so all we can say is that it's not RME L. It depends on what the use case is. What do people want to run on? Are there realists who can go run on? In my case probably never in particular. There is a lot of scientific stuff but it's probably never been run on an old RME L device because there will be any perverse things too. On the other hand Debian exists to have this stuff built so people can try it. It depends on what you do. Some people might actually buy in the big heavy where it's really great just with a small dataset that does work on the old RME devices or whatever. You never know. Use of freedom, it's cool. I was wondering there are devices that have a smaller use space what are there some lower bounds that you would require to ship at ETP and so on. I think mainly in terms of shipping at ETP if it goes and makes my kernel we'll ship it. duty means a tiny they cost us nothing. What are the kernels requirements or just a couple of batteries they actually require? I don't know. I think as long as it correctly describes a piece of hardware that is real I don't know if they reject things. They don't want to renovate themselves I don't think so. A lot of the things for the kernel it's important. Yeah. If it's a if you've got any particular concerns again ask the kernel folks ask the Devinong team we'll help if we can. Is there anything else that people would like to know? Very similar topic I'm playing around with PolyMix, PolyMix, all we know is 20 ports and you can have them on the NCD display and you have to add to the device tree it's a simple frame buffer device. And to set up the simple frame buffer you have to adjust to U-boot I'd like to see an as easy as possible way to get that in Devinong. At the moment it's really fine chasing kernel works great on the device so U-boot you're going to get the amount. Your kernel? We talk after this one. Yeah. Casting knows a lot about U-boot and things. Yes. I'm on the 20 ports of PolyX too also but I noticed that I'm trying to create bootable microsd's with some image writing software and I failed to find exactly where to put and how to put the U-boot in but I didn't find it in the wiki and I didn't yet get to go through the Devin installer and find out what exactly it's doing. Okay. You're trying to pre-write the U-boot environment. Yes. Or don't write one. I didn't write one and it didn't boot and that's what was in the wiki and I need one and I grabbed one from somewhere. It should boot because you would include the compiled in default environment. So even if the SD card does not contain a valid environment there's the default one compiled into the binary. So once the binary is written there will always be a valid default environment for it. And it should boot what flash kernel is going to write into the first partition. That's the fact. It didn't work for me. Which body do you use? The A10 on Jesse. Do you have it with you? No. But I can bring it tomorrow. Okay, bring it tomorrow. The point is I have tested that on the A20 but not on the A10 because I don't have one. Okay. We'll talk afterwards what I should bring. We'll try and problem-solve if you know it. I didn't get you. We'll try and problem-solve if you know it. I've kind of said everything I want to just to give an update of where we are. When you do development with Qemio and you switch to real hardware what can you expect from a that was not covered by Qemio or otherwise when should I start on real hardware? Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just generating what's a normal user land software you probably won't notice much difference apart from performance. Pressing fix with Qemio now. Qemio user. I used to start quite hard. Qemio user or Qemio system? Static. Static. Static. Okay, so threading may change quite a bit. Like it might work or not work. It's not multi-threaded at all. Yeah, they're working on it. Here's three. Qemio user. Qemio user. What central cross compilers would you like to run on your ARM machines for other targets? X86-64. Anything else? X86-64? Okay. Just wondering what demand there is from part of the other way. X86-64. A little bit, but not much. Between ARMs? ARM64-2, ARM-HF? ARM64-2, ARM-EL? Yeah. You might need it for the build for one day. Yeah. How's 64-1, ARM-HF? It's just true. It can be. Much like ARM-X86-4-5-3-6. Under the native-builder for a native-builder. You might want to cross-build. Yes. One thing I should mention that is coming is hopefully it's going to be on HF maybe, but definitely ARM64-5 images. Neil and I have been mostly Neil and I have been watching the people working on quite a lot of set up for this using the Anda Bootstrap. It will create images however you configure them and it also knows how to run QMU to be able to build cross-images, essentially. We're hoping to be making announcements and actually getting those out officially in the near future. So, for those people who have an ARM64 desktop I appreciate that's not many yet but you'll have to be able to plug in a USB stick and it should just work with a live image just like any X-X86 would. But again, with ARM-V7 ARM-HF the variability in the devices is going to be a big impact on whether you're actually going to have any kind of live image could be really good. I expect it'll work on some of that kubi truck because you're going to install a kubi truck anyway. A lot of other devices you're likely to get some kind of problem or you'll have to do a lot of other sort of specialized setup. You'll have to fight with your boots or that kind of thing. One thing that you mentioned on the mailing list before the conference that would there be interest for having a Lava Lab for testing these Mario's ARM ports that Vivian supports because our support is quite as advanced when we do it. And then because we're all volunteers we might forget about it for months and it might break down. So the discovery when you actually tried the newly released yesterday debut installed that in fact it doesn't work at all. Of course the case that we get some mails after a new debut release that actually got broke things down because no one had the specific part. So there's a couple of things with that. Yes, I'd like to do Lava.dev.net. I'd actually like to be able to do all that kind of stuff. There are issues with testing bootloaders. We need some hardware that we've tried three times now and we just can't get reliable, stable scalable hardware to do best e-marks. If you look back on our blog you'll have got all the history of why that doesn't work. So that is blocking any kind of testing of a great system including the bootloader. We can test everything from using the bootloader there with commands and loading and running the kernel and running the rest of the image. We can't actually test a new build of Ian's new boot loader. We can't we can't just say oh here's a new version of you booting and sticking on the device and test automatically. That can't happen yet. Yeah. Testing all the other stuff is still usable. Exactly. So my upstream work on that is taking up all my time. So it's a whole question of how we're it's an interest in doing CI on kernel boot and I sort of have a lot of this kind of stuff that I've been doing to help some of the people in the world who are using it and let's see what we can actually set up. It would be absolutely lovely once we get more devices up and running. If our devices don't make it, whatever we can plug them all into a Lava instance and then we can do regular testing. Linaro is more than happy to allow Lava access for anybody in WMW who wants to do arm testing particularly if you're testing stuff that is out of the main flow of the busy devices in the lab. So there are particular devices that are more restricted and they tend to get busy but there's a range of ARM v7 and some ARM v8 devices available in Linaro and you can have permission to submit to those and actually do some tests using those. These are one, these are two but however that you know it's likely to be one or more of them available in a Lava instance ready and waiting, being maintained properly and then the kind of hardware that most people here will actually be thinking of testing is likely, mostly idle waiting for jobs to be submitted. Most of the jobs that go on through on stuff that I do know really the rest of the people in London don't have real access to them. Now of course if you are struggling for porting access there will be seven porting boxes we've got two different two different, yeah we have two different ARM v8 porting boxes available within four Debian users if you're looking for something to help porting something even outside of Debian Linaro also has a slew of different machines available deliberately to help software authors port their software with a shout because with the rest of the team we can actually give you a hacking session on that box there's nothing to do with that with hacking sessions so anything else I do have some freebies they're not particularly special but I do have some freebies you see the the nice little sticker on Powering Debian on Powering Debian developer stickers I have a load of these up the front here am I just broken video no excellent so if anybody would like some please just ask they're free to give away please if you if you know anybody else who might be interested by all means take some with you unless there's anything else I think we're only just about done for the day so Neil and Wookie and I there's a whole slew of other Armand Linaro people around during the week if there's anything else you want to talk about feel free to try and find us I can't promise we'll be readily findable if we're in talks and stuff obviously but we're happy to talk about Armand Debian and stuff any time about what the hell your partition world looks like oh you spoke to me about you were here yesterday okay cool so thank you hash Debian Arm we're always looking for more help we're probably the most active of the ports of the ports in Debian aside from XAXA which is really important but still there is always more work to do I think that's a sad part of life so cheers thanks for watching