who is a veteran loafer and works for John Mitchell, Flat River Ranch, and Kelly has a few projects on the side as well, and we want to shine a bit of a light on our lopers. So Kelly, tell us a little bit first, how long you've been over here in the States lobing? Well, I've roughly been in the States for about nine years. I started off at ESMS vet clinic. I worked there for about a year and then decided to change things up a little bit and I actually ran into John and he was looking for somebody and I have been there ever since. So I'm going on eight years now working for John and yeah, it's been great. So that's actually a long time in the world of loafering because most, probably the majority, young kids who get in and get out, they switch around, they, not sure what they want to do and they have a go at loafering. Why have you been committed to this for this long? Well, I think it came with, I was a little older as well, like when I started doing it. A lot of people when they get into it, they're teenagers, early 20s. I'm sort of one of those people that once I get something on my mind and that's what I want to do, I want to learn it that way. And that's, I didn't want to switch around and I have a great rapport with John and Slate River and it's one of those things where it's like, well, I don't want to learn it any other way. I want to do it that way and I also wanted to learn more about training horses as well, not just the loping side of things. So I wanted to stick with the one program and I've been sort of like that my whole life. It's like, well, I'd rather than chop and change or something, stick with it. There's going to be tough times and you've got to get through it. But when you come out the other end, it's like, oh wow, I learned something and it just makes you better.  Well, yeah, and even my experience that I had at the vet clinic before, I actually started with John and Slate River, that in itself, especially for an Australian, things are pretty, for lack of a better term, primitive when it comes to doctoring horses and stuff at home like that and pretty much you'd spray some purple spray on a cut and be done with it. And I was like, wrap a leg, what do you mean wrap a leg? I don't know what to do there. So I didn't have a lot of knowledge when it came to those kinds of things. So being at ESM has taught me a lot and that information there is just gold, just that experience and having the knowledge of when the vet would come over and look at our horses, like I'd know what was going on and so just to have that inside knowledge of that was in itself pretty valuable. And then also learning how to work with a trainer, you learn what to do and what not to do. And then you end up being in a position where you get new people in, where you can train them as well and it's less stress on the trainer, them having to do all of that, then that sort of falls on me now and I can train people the way John wants them trained. So yeah, it's, I like being in a position, I like to have the responsibility. But like I said, I think that sort of comes with being a little bit older as well and yeah, it's not. How can we convince, do you think more loafers to stay in it longer and think of it as a career? You know what, that is tricky. I think basically like they've got to realize times are going to get tough and it's like that with any job. Like I was always told, you know, animals and kids are the hardest thing to work with. You know, like they can be unpredictable and it's definitely that way in our industry, things change, the going gets tough, you just got to tough through it. Like the only thing that's the only advice I can give is you just got to stick with it, work through it and get through the other end and you're going to have a great foundation and know the program and yeah, it's hard to convince people of that. You know, sometimes it looks like there's not a light at the end of the tunnel, but there often is. Well, and one thing I think that's obviously increased the challenge or the responsibility for you is that you've taken on management responsibilities as well. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, you know, it sort of came about, I started with John at Slate River, then John decided he was going to go out and train out of his own place and train for the public and that really opened up the door for me as far as opportunity. Like I had prior management skills in other jobs I done, like I worked for lawyers for seven years and I actually trained the new lawyers that came out of law school and then went into shopping mall administration and managed the admin for that. So I had management skills. So it was something that I was like, I really, I craved, you know, having that management kind of role. And so when we went out to his place, it was like, well, it opened up this whole world of like, okay, well then we have to build customers and we have to keep track of cow feed and we have to do all this. So it's like, I really took it on with open arms because it was something else for me to learn and it gave me more responsibility, which, you know, in some cases some people don't want the responsibility, but you know, I took it as like, okay, this is how I make this better. You know what I mean? And obviously pay more because I guess the one thing that drives like out of the industry is the long hours. Yeah, that's it. And maybe the long hours and all that. Yeah, the long hours. And that's what I always tell people, like never sit down and work out what you get paid hourly because you'll never keep doing it. And that was for me too, like I wanted to make a career out of it. And so that's why I took it on the way I took it on. It was like, yeah, I'll do the extra work. You know, I'd be in that office at 10 o'clock at night doing the bills at the end of the month. But it was like, you know what? It's worth it because this is, I'm going to be more valuable. And, you know, it's like, it opens the door for a pay rise and that kind of thing. And it just, and also for me too, I knew what was going on around the place, you know? So if, you know, hear conversations, something about this or that or the cow truck and when they're going to be, I know when it was going to, like I could answer that question for somebody. And, you know, it's, some people don't want to have that, like I said, but for me that was what, that was a driving force. It was like, I want to be part of it. I want to do the best I can. Yeah. I want to know everything inside out. Yeah. Well, and you've obviously tackled that. And now you've got another outlet, a more creative one. So tell us how this came about. Okay, so at first I just thought I was completely insane coming up with this idea, but I just had this craving basically to like, you know, channel my creative energy somewhere. And I actually, it actually started out with, I wanted to make leather handbags and do them all by hand. And my brother, he actually, he has got his own leather business back home in Australia. And when I, I grew up rodeoing at home and I actually made all my own shirts. Like that I just, I wanted, I wanted my shirts to look like they're the ones that were over here in America. Cause we didn't really have a lot of that readily available to us in Australia.  So I was like, I'm going to start making my own shirts. And my mom, she was a seamstress and she was super creative as well. And so I got her to help me. And before I knew it, I was like designing my own shirts and making my own shirts.