Thank you very much. That concludes topical questions. Before we turn to First Minister's questions, I'm sure that members would like to join me in welcoming to our gallery Dr Gabriel Andretta, president of the State Parliament of Lower Saxony. I'd also like to extend, if I can, a warm welcome to the Scottish Parliament. Welcome to the Scottish Parliament. My sign language is very rusty. To many members of the deaf community, BSL users and signers who are present in our gallery today, I'm sure that members will be pleased to hear that, for the next six months, we're going to be providing a signed translation of FMQs, which will be available and then we'll review that after the summer. Before we turn to FMQs, I'd like to end with one final appeal, and that is to the First Minister, to our party leaders and to all members who wish to ask a question today. That is, please, to keep your questions concise and the answers that the First Minister signed to her approval. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I can try but I can't promise. Presiding Officer, I'd very much like to give the First Minister a further opportunity to explain some of the inconsistencies surrounding the investigation into Alex Salmond. On Tuesday, the First Minister claimed that there is no manual for dealing with situations like the complaints facing Mr Salmond, except that such a manual does indeed exist. It's the Scottish Government's own complaints process, which she signed off in December 2017. It makes clear that the First Minister should only become involved when an investigation is complete. Discussing the case with the subject of the investigation on five separate occasions is surely getting involved, isn't it? First Minister. No, it is not. I, at no stage, intervened in the process that would have been wholly inappropriate for me to do so. The process procedure that was signed off, as Jackson Carlaw rightly points out, says that I should not have known about the process. That's why the permanent secretary did not tell me about the investigation that followed on the complaints. As First Minister, I had no role in that process and that is the position, and that is right and proper. Obviously, I, as other leaders here, have responsibilities as leader of my party, and meetings took place in that capacity. All along, in every decision that I took, I was anxious and determined to ensure that I did not intervene in a process in which I had no role to play. Jackson Carlaw. I'm sorry, First Minister, but I think that my grandmother would have given you what she would have called a very old-fashioned look if you'd said that to her. Meeting the subject of a complaint is getting involved in my book, First Minister, and I'm surprised that you don't appreciate that as well. The First Minister said in her statement this week that she did not know what was going on in the investigation, yet she also told us this. On April 2, Mr Salmond detailed to her the nature of the complaints and that, in subsequent meetings, he set out his concerns about the process and the proposals that he was making for mediation and arbitration. So she did know because Mr Salmond told her. How does the First Minister square her claim that she didn't know what was going on with the fact that Mr Salmond was telling her what was going on? I did not know how the Scottish Government was dealing with the complaint. I did not know how the Scottish Government was intending to deal with the complaint. I did not make any effort to find out how the Scottish Government was dealing with the complaint or intervene in how the Scottish Government was dealing with the complaint. As Jackson Carlaw has said, Alex Salmond informed me of the investigation at a meeting on 2 April. I was so anxious that I didn't even inadvertently create any impression that I was seeking to intervene and that I didn't immediately tell the permanent secretary that I was aware of the investigation. I changed that judgment when Alex Salmond asked to meet with me a second time. As Jackson Carlaw said, as I set out on Tuesday, Alex Salmond had set out his concerns about the process. It was clear from what he told me then that he was considering a legal challenge. When he requested a second meeting, I was concerned that that could be imminent. I told the permanent secretary then that I knew about the investigation, about the previous meeting, including the reference to potential legal challenge. I told her, I supported her decision to investigate and I would not seek to intervene in the investigation in any way. I also said that I would make it clear to Alex Salmond again that I would not intervene. That is what I did in the second meeting on 7 June. I told the permanent secretary of all subsequent contact. I did not self-evidently intervene in the process. It seems to me that I am being simultaneously accused of being involved in a conspiracy against Alex Salmond and also of colluding with Alex Salmond. Nothing could be further from the truth in both of those. Neither of those things are true. Since I found out about the investigation, I have tried to do the right thing in a situation that, no matter what happened, was never going to be easy for me. The most important thing here has always been and continues to be the complaints that were made and the people who made those complaints. Jackson Carlaw. First Minister, you are an experienced politician. The obvious common sensical thing to have done after Alex Salmond advised you of the allegation on April 2 would have been to decline to meet him or speak with him on four separate occasions. Again on Tuesday, the First Minister said that the five conversations that she had with Mr Salmond about this matter were not government meetings. In other words, her position appears to be that a meeting between the First Minister of the Government and the former First Minister of the Government about a government investigation involving two government employees was not government business. I mean really how? So just to be completely clear, will the First Minister confirm if she and the former First Minister were the only two people at these meetings or were other people present and if so, who were they? First Minister. The first meeting that my chief of staff was with me, Mr Salmond, was represented. Of course, my chief of staff is a special advisor who also has the ability to assist me in party matters at the other meetings no one else was present. I accept absolutely unreservedly the scrutiny that comes on me. I didn't choose to be in the situation that we are in. All along have been absolutely clear that the most important thing was that I did not intervene in the Government process in which I had no role. The fact that I had no role in the Government process is why it would not have been appropriate for the meetings to be Government meetings. I have responsibilities as party leader, as other leaders do. I did not intervene in the process. Self-evidently, I did not intervene in the process because, as Jackson Callor referred to, things such as mediation and arbitration did not take place. I acted appropriately. I absolutely accept that there will be others who think that I made wrong judgments along the way, and that is absolutely their entitlement. However, I made the judgments that I made. I will stand by and defend those judgments, and I will be absolutely adamant that I did not intervene in the process, as it would have been entirely inappropriate for me to have done so. Jackson Callor, a Scottish Government special adviser who is an employee of the Government was present at the meetings that we are told were not Government meetings. This whole sorry business simply does not stack up. At the heart of it are two women whose complaint has been entirely botched by this Government. We have the former First Minister claiming incredibly that there is a political plot led by this Government to destroy his reputation, incredible. All we have to show for it is a bill estimated to be at least £500,000, which the taxpayer will now be left to settle. If the Government will not explain convincingly what has happened and the First Minister frankly today has not, then I and others believe that Parliament should be given the authority to do so. Will the First Minister agree today that her officials and ministers will provide evidence on this matter, because the public deserve to know? As all members know, it is entirely for Parliament, rightly and properly for Parliament to decide what it wants to look into and inquire into. Ministers and Government officials will, as they do in all inquiries, co-operate fully with that. Jackson Callor puts his finger on a point that I made earlier. I am right now simultaneously being accused of being engaged in a political conspiracy against Alex Salmond and I am also being accused of colluding with Alex Salmond. Neither of those things are true. The fact of the matter is that complaints came forward. The permanent secretary was right to investigate those complaints. Where I absolutely agree with Jackson Callor is that that is the most important thing here. People brought forward complaints and it is right that those complaints are investigated. The question of whether behaviour is criminal is a matter for the police, and that is not for me to comment. It was for the Scottish Government to investigate whether the behaviour was inappropriate. The Scottish Government did not get that right, and that is what, in all of this, I deeply regret. That is why I am also determined that the Government will learn lessons from that, and if Parliament wants to be part of that process, then I certainly would welcome that. 2. Richard Leonard Presiding Officer, I hope that all of us in this chamber remember that at the centre of this week's court case are two courageous women who put their faith in a system that has badly let them down. We owe a duty of care to them and they have a right of access to justice. 3. Labour backs a parliamentary inquiry because serious questions need to be answered. Questions like the First Minister's five conversations with Alex Salmond. The First Minister has already said that she does not consider those to be Government meetings, even though those were meetings and conversations between the current First Minister of the Scottish Government with the former First Minister of the Scottish Government, about a Scottish Government investigation into allegations of sexual assault reportedly made by two Scottish Government civil servants. Why does the First Minister not think that the public has a right to know the basic facts of those discussions? The First Minister I have just told Parliament and, by extension, the public what the subject matter was of that. I still say the most important thing here, and this is a point that is absolutely self-evident, that I did not intervene in this process in any way. That is, I think, the most important point. On the question of wider inquiry, it is entirely for Parliament to decide at once an inquiry into all of this. As I said on Tuesday, as the permanent secretary said on Tuesday, the Government intends to review the aspect of the procedure that it applied in error, and that is something that Parliament will have an interest in. Of course, Parliament has an interest in wider issues around this. It is not for me to say what Parliament should and shouldn't do, but, obviously, the Scottish Government, myself, the permanent secretary and any other member or official of the Scottish Government will co-operate fully with whatever Parliament decides to do. Richard Leonard Presiding Officer, if ministers meet external organisations or individuals and find themselves discussing official business without an official present—for example, at a party conference or social occasion—any significant content should be passed back to their private offices as soon as possible after the event, which should arrange for the basic facts of such meetings to be recorded. That is section 4.23 of the Scottish Ministerial Code. Can the First Minister explain whether she is in breach of that code, or if she did place a record with the permanent secretary, will she publish it? The First Minister If there is a parliamentary inquiry, of course we will make all appropriate information available. I have just said it to Jackson Carlaw when and what I informed the permanent secretary of, and we will make available any information around that. I am satisfied that I conducted myself appropriately in line with all the rules. The Parliament, of course, will perform its scrutiny role in the best way that it considers necessary. On Tuesday, the First Minister invited us to judge her decision to hold a series of meetings and discussions about those cases with Alex Salmond. That was a grave error of judgment, but it was also a clear potential breach of the ministerial code of conduct. After the events of this week, people need to have trust and confidence in the system. That is why the First Minister herself should back a full parliamentary inquiry, and it is why she should refer herself today to the panel of independent advisers on the Scottish ministerial code. Can she commit to doing that? I will consider any request that is made, including that one. On the question of whether I back an inquiry or not, I am perfectly happy for Parliament to have an inquiry. The simple point that I am making is that it is not for me, as First Minister, to tell Parliament what it should and should not inquire into. I will make sure that, if there is a parliamentary inquiry, the Scottish Government, all aspects of the Scottish Government will co-operate fully with that. For the next question, we have a couple of constituency supplementaries. The first is from Alasdair Allan. The communities of Lewis and Harris recently commemorated the centenary of the loss of HMY ILA, which, on New Year's Day 1919, claimed the lives of 201 servicemen. The First Minister will be aware from her recent very welcome visit to Lewis of the Deep Feelings at this tragedy still evokes. Will the Scottish Government give it support the calls from the community for the Ministry of Defence to designate the site as a military maritime grave? First Minister. I thank Alasdair Allan for raising the commemoration for the loss of HMY ILA on 1 January. I attended that commemoration. It was very moving and clearly the event is still keenly felt by the local community. The bodies of around one-third of those who were lost in that tragedy were, of course, never recovered. I am supportive of calls to have the wreck of the ILA recognised as a war grave. Members of the Scottish Commemoration's panel, which is appointed by the Scottish Government and others, have already raised this with the Ministry of Defence with whom the decision rests, but the Scottish Government will continue to be supportive of that call. James Kelly It was reported last week that patients at the Queen Elizabeth University hospital in Glasgow were unable to wash because of a lack of fresh linen. There were also patients waiting surgery having to sleep in dirty linen. That is completely unacceptable and a demonstration of the crisis in the NHS. Will the First Minister apologise to the patients who are affected and set out what immediate action the Government will take to ensure that this disgraceful episode does not happen again? First Minister. I understand from the Glasgow health board that laundry supplies were affected by a particularly busy period over the new year, but I understand that the board has apologised already. I would certainly echo that and give assurances that the issue has been resolved. I understand that the issue was quickly resolved, but those issues should not happen and I would expect the board to learn and apply any lessons from it. John Scott Thank you, Presiding Officer. The First Minister will be aware that it appears that Hurston's in-ear is scheduled to close on 16 February. My primary concern is for the future of the 81 staff involved. I am also concerned about the loss of this long-established iconic store in-ear. While I am aware that the Government teams have already met with Hurston's staff, can I ask the First Minister if there is anything further that can be done to help both and protect the future of the staff and the business itself? First Minister. I am also concerned to hear about this news. Hurston's in-ear, given my upbringing in-ear, is a store that I personally knew well when I was much younger than I am today. Clearly, that is not only a blow to the staff concerned. Given the longevity of that store in-ear, it is a blow to the town as well. The Scottish Government will, as we always do in these situations, liaise with the employer to see whether there is anything that can be done to help. If, unfortunately, the closure cannot be averted, we will make sure through the pacing initiative that appropriate support is provided to staff. I am sure that that will raise wider issues about regeneration in-ear, which, of course, the Government would also be happy to be involved in. Monica Lennon Thank you. In this chamber at the end of November, I raised the plight of six-year-old Cole Thomson from East Kilbride with the health secretary. Cole has debilitating epilepsy and medicinal cannabis could save and transform his life. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for meeting Cole's mum, Lisa Quarrow, last month. However, I have learned that epidiolex is being rationed to only a handful of children in Scotland and that Cole is on a very long waiting list. In a letter to Lisa, Jean Freeman said that specialist centres in Glasgow and Edinburgh will each be limited to applying for treatment for five children. Lisa is now secured medicinal cannabis privately in Spain but at significant financial costs. Will the First Minister do everything that she can to help Cole and other children, like him, who are suffering in Scotland, to receive the medicine and treatment that they need from our NHS? The First Minister Can I again express my thoughts for this family? Watching any loved one suffer is absolutely heartbreaking and that is even more so when it is a child. We take calls from families very seriously. I know that Monica Lennon knows the position of medicinal cannabis and the fact that it is unlicensed in the UK medicine. The manufacturer I know has applied for a licence on which the European Medicines Agency had expected to make a decision earlier this year. In light of Monica Lennon's latest question, I will ask Jean Freeman to look again at the issue of Cole in particular to see whether there is any more that the Scottish Government can reasonably do to help in his particular situation. Question 3, Patrick Harvie. Thank you. Like MSPs across the chamber, I have been hearing from colleagues and constituents from around the country about the cuts that local councils are now having to contemplate and the devastating impact if they are forced down that road. I would like to tell the First Minister about one disturbing example. Ryan is five years old, lives in Falkirk and has severe autism. His mum wrote to explain that the family were happy when his nursery recommended sending him to a mainstream primary school because the support he needed was there. She said, the first few weeks were challenging, but we were amazed at how his social interaction improved. He can now speak. He is very intelligent and we are very proud to be his parents and want to thank the school for all their support. On Monday, my husband was pulled aside by his teacher who told us that, as of that day, Ryan's support has been slashed from two hours a day to two and a half hours per week. This is a young boy whose condition means that he cannot go to the toilet himself. Now, in order for him to remain in school, his parents will have to go into his class twice a day to change him while he is in school. Those two hours a day of support were essential in giving him a chance to benefit from his education and to flourish. Ryan's parents have been told clearly that the school can do nothing about this cut. Ryan's mum says, not only is this disappointing and stressful, we fear that it will completely undo all the work that has been done to give Ryan a routine. God forbid, he has a bowel movement in between the allocated changing times. The slash of hours affects all kids with support needs, not just our son. Does the First Minister think that this situation is remotely acceptable? The situation that Patrick Harvie has described would not strike me as unacceptable. I know how important it is for children with special needs in mainstream education to have the appropriate support. Obviously, Patrick Harvie has given a fair amount of detail there about the individual case, but I do not know all of the circumstances of Ryan's individual case. I will ask the Deputy First Minister and education secretary to look at that case and any wider issues that it raises. He would be happy to correspond with Patrick Harvie when he has had the opportunity to do so. Patrick Harvie. I appreciate the offer to correspond. I understand that the First Minister does not know all of the individual details, but the First Minister does know that there are 500 fewer additional support needs teachers in Scotland's schools in 2018 than there were in 2010. We have been making that case, as have others, across the spectrum for a long time now, despite the more than doubling of the number of children with additional needs. That situation and others in other local services is only going to get worse if more cuts are forced on our councils. ASN and every other local service will suffer. A new ring-fence funds for new policies imposed on councils will not make up for the cuts proposed to their core services. Since the SNP lost its majority, the Greens have been persistent in seeking positive changes to protect local services, but we do not demand the impossible. In fact, the Government admits that there is an extra £500 million in the coming year's budget because of the fairer tax plans that we persuaded them to adopt last year. Why, then, should we saddle our councils with a staggering level of funding cuts that the First Minister knows will inevitably deny vulnerable pupils and so many other people in Scotland the support that they need? Before I come on to the budget point, let me return to the ASN point, because it is an important issue. I had an exchange with Richard Leonard in the chamber on this point a few weeks ago in terms of the overall numbers of staff in school working with children with ASN. Has increased, obviously, teacher numbers generally have increased in the last couple of years, but I do not underestimate the pressures that are there when dealing with children with special needs of this nature. On the budget point, I say what I have said to Patrick Harvie and to others before we put forward a draft budget. Patrick Harvie is right that there is resource available in that draft budget because of the tax decisions that the Government has taken, but we have allocated that resource to the national health service, to local authorities, for example, for the roll-out of the doubling of childcare. The simple point that I will make to Patrick Harvie and to others is that if you want us to change the judgments about allocations that we have made in order to put more money into one area of the budget, there also has to be a discussion about which area of the budget that money should come from. That part of the discussion cannot be allocated, because what is not in the budget is £500 million of unallocated resource. Every penny that we have available to us has been allocated. Obviously, we want to have budget discussions. We are prepared to have those budget discussions from parties across the chamber, but that has to be a discussion rooted in reality. We cannot create money from nowhere. If more money is to go to one area of our budget, we have to be honest about where we are taking that money from. The Deputy First Minister, John Swinney, has repeatedly claimed that there are many people who emphatically support his primary one national test. We asked the Government who those many people were. It turns out that there were just two of them. One was Professor Dylan William, an education adviser to Education Scotland.   Let me address the substance of the issue. The Scottish Government referenced Professor William's work because we interpreted his research as being supportive of a formative approach to assessment. If that is not the case, we are happy to recognise that. It was not our intention to imply that he supported the specifics of the Scottish national standardised assessments, but it is the Scottish Government's view that, in line with best practice internationally, the assessments provide formative diagnostic information to teachers on aspects of literacy and numeracy, and that that information is then important in allowing teachers to ensure that their judgments are allowing the right support to get to pupils in the right way. All of that is crucial to our objective of raising attainment and closing the attainment gap. Before the second question, the first question was on the borderline of what is acceptable. Just be careful about insulting other members of the Parliament. Those were the professor's words. Mr Rennie quoted the professor and then tried to turn it into a clever question, but almost an insult. I will not accept other members being insulted in this chamber. Just be careful about how you word your next question. The First Minister is absolutely wrong. We asked John Swinney's office for the names of the academics who support P1 tests. The professor's name was supplied. The professor is now owed an apology, and so is Professor W James Popham, the second name on the list. He said the claim that whether made from ignorance or malevolence is flat out incorrect. She must apologise for insulting this global expert as well. Teachers are against the test. The EIS opposed the test. Councils are ditching the test. Parliament voted against the test. And now the ministers-preferred experts think that his tests are useless.  Will the First Minister finally dump those tests? In terms of the professors, their work was cited as we believed that it was evidence of support for formative assessments. If we got that wrong, then of course we apologised to the professors for that. We did not say that they specifically supported the Scottish National Standardised assessments. I believe that the assessments are important. It is important to have something that allows teachers to moderate their own judgments. Teacher judgment remains the definitive assessment tool in our schools. I think that it is important that we are able to know which pupils are doing well, which pupils need to stretch, which pupils need extra help. Finally, on the issue of councils withdrawing from assessments, that is not the case. Councils who are withdrawing from the standardised assessments that we have put in place are going back to old assessments. In some cases, in the case of Fife, for example, they are going back to doing two assessments a year instead of one assessment, and they are using a system of assessment that is not aligned to curriculum for excellence. I think that it is important to be clear about that. We will continue to support and approach in our schools that allows us to get the right support to pupils and help to close the attainment gap. We have some further supplementaries, the first from Shona Robison. On Monday, the First Minister announced £10 million for the Tayside industrial strategy, which is, of course, welcome, but can the First Minister reconfirm and reiterate the previous Scottish Government commitment made that Michelin, in my constituency, will receive resources beyond those already allocated in the Tay cities deal in order to repurpose the site and create a true economic legacy for the Michelin workforce? Will she undertake to further press the UK Government into stepping up to the plate to also help to fund the Michelin legacy, given that they have already shortchanged the Tay city steel by £50 million? I thank Shona Robison for the question. The Scottish Government has been clear all along that we were prepared to invest £200 million into the Tay cities region and we have delivered on that promise. I remain, like Shona Robison, disappointed that the UK Government has chosen not to match that scale of ambition, and I hope even now that it changes its mind. The £50 million that I announced on Monday will include £10 million for the needs of manufacturing businesses across the region, and I am sure that future options for the Michelin plant in Dundee will be a key focus of the discussions with regional partners as they work with us to shape the industrial investment programme. However, we are absolutely clear that we will provide additional support to deliver on the MOU signed with Michelin in December. As a member of the Michelin action group, I would hope and expect the UK Government to do likewise. I am disappointed, First Minister, that this week you had £50 million to allocate to our region and, following the closure of Michelin, you only managed to find £10 million for any industrial development in Dundee. I would have expected, and many people in Dundee would have expected that full share of the £50 million to come to our city. However, as a result of her budget, jobs are under threat in Dundee. Compulsory redundancies have been mooted by SNP councillors in Dundee. We all know that the First Minister has a policy of no compulsory redundancies. Will she confirm this policy today and guarantee that there will be no compulsory redundancies in Dundee city council while she is First Minister? Of course, as I am frequently reminded by members across the chamber, councils are autonomous and they take their own decisions. The Scottish Government's no compulsory redundancy policy remains in place. I do not think that, if memory serves me correctly, there was any such policy while Labour was last in administration in the Scottish Government. As for the start of Jenny Marra's question, it could only be a Labour MSP that stands up in this chamber and says that I am furious that you announced £50 million of additional investment. What a pathetic response! £40 million is for transport infrastructure that will open investment across Tayside and £10 million to help with manufacturing, which will be important for Dundee as well as for other parts of Tayside. There was a very warm welcome from all parts of Tayside from this announcement on Monday, and I think that it is really disappointing that Jenny Marra cannot find it within herself to welcome it as well. Presiding Officer, with fox hunting legislation set to be significantly strengthened in Scotland, what message does this send to those who might seek to flout the rules and how will they strengthen the hand of Police Scotland in tackling illegal hunts? First Minister. Mary Gageon, of course, the minister responsible set out our proposed way forward on fox hunting yesterday. We are going to implement the majority of Lord Bonamy's recommendations and also introduce a new limit of no more than two dogs to be used to find or flush foxes hunting or chasing while mammals, including foxes, will continue to be against the law as it is at present. We also intend to ensure that there are no loopholes that would allow hunting to continue. I think that this sends an important message about animal welfare and the importance that we attach to animal welfare. I hope that the member and others will welcome that. Obviously, as with any strengthening of the law—and, of course, that still requires to get the support of Parliament—but, as with any strengthening of the law, that gives options to the police to make sure that illegal activity does not take place. Neil Findlay. The Government acted at Michelin and Dundee when problems were identified, working with the company and the workforce, keeping employees informed of developments. Contrast that to Cayam at Livingston, where workers were kept in the dark despite the Government knowing about the company's problems a month before it went into administration. This week, we learned that the minister, Jamie Hepburn, did not even lift the phone to the company throughout the month-long period up to the closure. First Minister, do you think that that is good enough? First Minister, can I put on record my sympathy for the position that the Cayam workers are in, and any support that the Scottish Government can give to them to find alternative employment or other support will be provided? I am not saying that Neil Findlay is deliberately misrepresenting, but I think that it is a mischaracterisation of the position of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government will frequently be given information that companies are in difficulty or having cash flow problems or that their future is in jeopardy. Principally through Scottish Enterprise, we will seek to support the company. As I understand through Scottish Enterprise, it was the case here to try to find an alternative buyer, to try to find ways of solving any cash flow issues and getting investment into companies. In some cases, that will prove successful. In many cases that people will never hear about, it is because that kind of work proves successful. In some cases, regrettably, this cannot be the case and that was the case here. It is not when efforts to save a company are on-going, it is not for the Scottish Government to tell employees that that is a matter for companies and it is not for the Scottish Government to do anything that would undermine the efforts of a company to find alternative ways forward. We will continue, as I think, to be fair that Neil Findlay recognises, in the case of Michelin and in the case of other companies, where we can make an intervention to save a company from closure. We will do that, but we are not going to pretend that that is always possible, because it is not always possible to do, unfortunately. First Minister, we are within 80 days of a potential disaster of a no-deal Brexit. What we have seen this week is Lloris Pat in an airfield and a ferry contract awarded to a company with no ferries. Does not install any confidence in the general population? Does the First Minister think that those preparations are adequate? What share of resources is Scotland receiving to help our country to prepare? Can Scotland look to establish a better direct link with Europe, by sea and air, to counter the damage of Brexit? A no-deal Brexit, as everybody knows, will be catastrophic. Let's be plain about it. Any Brexit is going to be bad for Scotland, and Scotland voted against Brexit. The Prime Minister's deal is bad for Scotland and bad for the UK, which is why it looks like a majority of people in the House of Commons will vote against it. In response to Gil Paterson, of course, we have got to, in the Scottish Government, look at all contingency options, including looking at how Scottish companies in different sectors of the economy can get their products to market, and we will continue to do that. Fundamentally, there is an issue that for people in Scotland becomes ever clearer until, in Scotland, we are in charge of our own destiny, able to make those decisions ourselves by being an independent country, then we will always be at the mercy of damaging Westminster decisions. The sooner, in that respect, Scotland decides to become independent, the better. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to reports that the UK Government plans to halt the full roll-out of universal credit. The Ambor Rudd announcement of a pilot for managed migration does not change the reality of those already suffering under universal credit, because previous calls to halt the roll-out were completely ignored. Nor will that announcement stop an estimated 1.6 million people across the UK naturally migrating to universal credit due to changed circumstances ahead of full migration from 2020. As I have done previously, I still take the view that there should be a complete halt to universal credit in order that fundamental changes are made, because people are suffering, people are being driven into poverty and debt because of universal credit and it is completely and utterly unacceptable. Keith Brown Can I thank the First Minister for her response and advice that my constituency of Club Manusher and Dumblane was unfortunate enough to be at the vanguard of universal credit, which for Scotland, in many respects, is reminiscent of Thatcher's poll tax. Despite the hardship and damage that it has caused and continues to cause to many of my constituents and despite the fact that Conservative members in this chamber have ignored, denied and downplayed its effects, I am hugely disappointed that the UK Government planned to proceed with their managed migration without any changes to the current deeply flawed system that has already forced many thousands into poverty. Does the First Minister agree that the UK Government must listen to the calls of so many people, including the UN, to fix the failing policy? Will her Government raise that with the working pension secretary and agree that the full powers of the welfare system should be devolved to Scotland? The First Minister Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with that. Keith Brown talked about universal credit being reminiscent of Thatcher's poll tax. I hope that I am not misquoting him here, but I think that John Major, a former Tory Prime Minister, has also described universal credit as being like the poll tax. It is time for the UK Government to listen to the overwhelming evidence of the failings of universal credit, which the UN special rapporteur in poverty recently described as universal discredit. The UK Government should make fundamental changes to make it fit for purpose and halt it in the meantime. The Scottish Government has repeatedly raised the failings with the succession of working pension secretaries, and we will continue to do so. However, as I have said in this chamber before, I would far rather be in a position of, rather than just having to plead with a DWP minister in Westminster, that this Parliament had full powers over universal credit in the wider social security system so that we could take our own decisions—another reason why this country should sooner, rather than later, become independent. Jamie Greene To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government is taking to tackle antisemitism. The Scottish Government, in common, I hope, with everybody across the chamber, is committed to tackling hate crime and prejudice. I want to reassure Scotland's Jewish communities that there is no place in Scotland for any form of antisemitism or religious hatred. We value our Jewish communities and the contribution that they make to Scotland, and I think that that is a message that should go out strongly from this chamber. As well as our ambitious programme of work to tackle hate crime and build community cohesion, we have also adopted the international Holocaust Remembrance Alliances definition of antisemitism. This sends a strong message that we believe antisemitism to be entirely unacceptable in Scotland. Jamie Greene I thank the First Minister for that response, but the First Minister will be aware of recent press reporting comments made by Ephraim Borowski, director of the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities, in this very Parliament. I quote from him, "...mostly the Jewish community used to feel that Scotland was a good place to be Jewish, but for many that has reversed. Many Jews actively discussed leaving Scotland because they feel alienated, vulnerable and not at home." I hope that the First Minister is as worried and saddened by that assertion as those benches are. Can I ask her what guidance has been issued specifically to Police Scotland to address the scourge of antisemitism in Scotland? Will she join me in calling for all political parties represented in this Parliament to do everything in their power to make sure that no one in the Jewish community should feel vulnerable or unwelcome in Scotland? The First Minister Yes, I will encourage all parties to do exactly as Jamie Greene has called for there. In terms of the police, I believe that the police have a good relationship with the Jewish community and work very closely with the Jewish community around tackling antisemitism and addressing the concerns of the Jewish community around security. In terms of Ephraim Borowski's comments, I have huge respect for Ephraim and the work that he does. I have discussed that issue with him personally in the past. He is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I do not think that there was any suggestion that the legitimate concerns that he raised at the weekend were in any way unique to Scotland. He was reflecting a feeling of the Jewish community across the whole of the UK, including Scotland, but also reflecting an apparent rise in antisemitism not just across the UK but further afield. I think that all of us have to be very vigilant about that. My responsibility is to make sure that that is the case particularly in Scotland. As I say, I have had discussions and will continue to have discussions with the Jewish community about exactly that. I made this point when I spoke at the reception in this Parliament earlier this week of the Holocaust Educational Trust. I will say this again here that the Jewish community is a valuable, vital part of our society in Scotland. If one member of that community feels unsafe here, all of us have a duty to respond to that and to do everything possible to change that. That is a responsibility that I take very seriously for the Jewish community and for any other minority community living in our diverse country. I hope that that is something that all members will agree with and echo. Thank you very much. That concludes First Minister's questions. We are going to move shortly to members' business in the name of Mark Griffin on Macmillan and Mary Curie support, but we will have a short suspension to allow the chamber and members to change seats and the gallery to clear a short suspension.


The rollout and wear dates for uniform changes have been released. Several wear tests were conducted and the Navy has used feedback from the fleet to finalize uniform designs. Details for the unisex covers, redesigned dress blue uniforms, and the lightweight NWU are provided in a new nav admin. Check out the new nav admin for more details on the upcoming uniform changes. C&P plans to visit the Six Fleet Area of Operations this week. Vice Admiral Moran will meet with sailors at Naval Support Activity Naples, U.S. Six Fleets Headquarters, and Naval Air Station Siganilla. While there, he will host a series of all hands calls to discuss new personnel initiatives. And finally, today is the Navy's birthday. On October 13, 1775, the Continental Congress authorized the arming of two sailing vessels with 80 men and 10 carriage guns in order to intercept British supply and munitions transports. Happy 240th birthday, Navy! For these stories and more, visit navy.mil.


The National Agency for the Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons, NAPTIP, says it is worried by the trend of trafficking of young Nigerian women to the Middle East. Representative of the Director-General of NAPTIP, Hajara Tundiosho, said this at the opening of a capacity-building workshop for community-based women-led organizations.  Between March 2020 and February 2021, NAPTIP was involved in the repatriation of close to 2,000 young women from domestic and sexual servitude from the Middle Eastern countries. Now the organizers of the training say they hope to strengthen the capacity of women-led groups to carry out the mandate effectively. So it's important that we need to keep talking about it, need sensitizing them about it, so that they also become aware of the gimmicks, of the tricks, and all the new tactics and strategies that traffickers are employing these days to lure young girls. As participants echo the need for enlightenment at the grassroots, the role of the government in community-based organizations are also emphasized. NAPTIP is trying, but it needs to be a lot of, you know, we need to put our mouth where our money is in terms of providing all that is needed. You cannot deal with the issue of trafficking without providing adequate funding, which is what we found out that there are issues for insides where there are protection services. The funds needed to deal with this issue is lacking, so the government needs to do quite a lot more in that regard. And also, putting in place, we have a lot of beautiful legislations, but implementation is always the problem. And so we need to also build the capacity of all our critical stakeholders, whether it's from the community, law enforcement, to understand these legislative frameworks that exist, how they are supposed to use them. There have been a lot of awareness creation. There seems to be at the upper level. There are so many people at the grassroots in the villages, rural areas who are not aware of this menace. And what we really need to do is to go into those interiors, because that is where those victims are really picked from. Our community journey looks to meet up with a lot of things, because people crossing from the border, that's neighboring country, that's depending. A lot of activities has been going on there, a lot of check-in needs to be done. And all, it is agreed that human trafficking represents a clear and present danger to life and national security, and it must be addressed broadly and frontally.


Hey, good afternoon. I'm MC3 Zachary Belt. Today is November 9th, 2011. We're two days away from the carrier classic here at the USS Carl Vinson. And here come the Michigan State Spartans. Let's go. Let's check out the locker room. Let's go to the bridge. Now the bridge is where the captain is when we're out to sea. The captain makes all the calls, observes the whole entire flight deck, all the planes and everything, makes sure everything's running smoothly. All right? So what do you guys think of the locker room? Awesome. All right. Watch your step right here. I don't need any of the Michigan State players getting hurt before the game and blaming me. So everybody watch your step. The bridge right now is where the Michigan State players are seeing the court for the first time. What are you guys' reactions? Incredible. Crazy. Awesome. Awesome. And what's going to go down on this court on Friday? Michigan State getting the win. That's what's going down.  Make sure we got three-point control, guys. Hands always on the head. Well, Coach, you know we're very appreciative of everything you're doing for us, so... Well, I had a chance to spend a couple of times in Kuwait with the troops over there on a thing called Hoops with the troops. And that's kind of where my AD got all this going. And I'll tell you what, this is way better than I thought it was going to be. I can't even tell you how much we appreciate this. And we appreciate you guys. I'm sure a lot of people are going to be a lot happier on Friday knowing that we're going to have an NCAA game right here. So only that Spartans, Tom Ozo. Let's go Spartans. Let's go Spartans. All right, guys. We're going to go right back up for where we came. We're going to go see the court. I really take all that. I respect what we're going to do. From the roof to through the sky. Like, however high we are, I really respect what we're going to do. I really appreciate everything y'all do for us, everything. We really appreciate you guys coming out, supporting us and playing this game. Thank you each and every one of you. Hey, let's go green, right? All right, guys. See you guys Friday. That was Michigan State. We'll see you in two days at the Carrier Classic.


What am I getting myself into you know so it's always can I tell you why I was nervous? Sure because you're because you're incredibly funny Incredibly bright smart. I think bright sounds condescending. So I don't mean it that way. I just mean bright You have really beautiful eyes. I noticed today But yeah, but I was afraid you'd be like I'm gonna take that boomer down Only if you were malicious and powerful then I would really go after you.  I appreciate that.  The floor is yours. I Saw your video Maybe you could just talk about making that video and then what you saw in it and how many times have you watched it? many times But I've watched other videos of his also I've now watched many many of his videos and You know, and that's and that's why I'm here because I wouldn't I wouldn't want to like quote waste waste time You know if it didn't seem like it was Something good and positive and interesting all those details are amazing Yeah, you know and also seeing like all the comments from people who live here who's who are Psyched about it. You know like and like it's a it's a parody in a way, but it's also like See, I wasn't really clear when you're like, oh, this is an homage, you know, and I was like, I don't know like in a way It feels like mocking So I would love to hear you talk about The mocking part of it and how that and how that appeals it seems to really appeal to people I don't know for all I know it's people who live in the old north end who like came here from wherever and we give me I'm students.  Tell tell you what you asked Donnie. I got you bud So Donnie's always been a side character from my main series, which is the political stuff and it's always been Fun gateway. He's a gateway character And so so a lot of the issues that I talk about affect people that are in you know, poor situations and don't necessarily know how to Change that and don't follow local politics and that's the biggest problem with a lot of Parvish areas or small towns.  It's stuff that I joked about when I was like You know single digits or preteen or a teenager and can you can you tell me what you mean by that?   Are they making fun of of Remanters like I That's a big squirrel I so I Didn't grow up in Vermont, but I grew up First part of my life first a little bit of my life was not very poor We were kind of regular middle class and then my folks got divorced were very very very poor and And I ended up supporting my family when I was 16 years old and like I was telling Johnny like scraping mold off bread for sandwiches and eating hamburger help without the hamburger, you know and I Can't go on, you know my mom we had a we had a two-bedroom house with four kids My mom slept on the couch. She worked 12 hours a day and But the us kids shared a room Really small rooms and I know a lot of people have it a lot worse. So you know, but I feel protective of What what my family went through and the judgments That people put on us I also feel like really pissed off when you know, like educated people Make fun of people who are and I and I know now that that that's I really totally love what you're doing But my first reaction was Are you making these guys making fun and in fact somebody who I know like is you're right? Are they making fun of? You know Vermonters and somebody said no no, it's an homage and I was like it seems classist to me I didn't know that I didn't know that he came from there But I knew that somebody paid for the video most likely me. Yeah You know and and people you know like my family and myself as a kid, you know, it was just survival mode There was no room for room for that.     So when I when I do this stuff I put it like I made sure he had great production and it was a catchy song and like you wanted to root for him in that song and So that's like I was very conscious of that to really like Make that a focal point, which I think a lot of people understood through that context I think a lot of people don't think about it that like crazy But they get the sub the subtext and they're like, oh, I like this guy I like Donnie on it and I think a lot of people I think some people miss that at first glance Which is totally fine. We're all we're all human and it's fine And you your heart was in the right place and I knew that when you commented. That's why I loved your comment There's a hint of maybe punching down on totally Well, you got away for the second song because the second song is all about crystals come back I commented I commented because you said I saw something in your thing when I was kind of doing my research on who you were, you know Yeah that one moment where She like rolls her eyes, do you know the do you know the scene I'm talking? Oh, I do She's amazing she's such a great actress and she's one of my official contracted employees now Oh The thing that you asked me why did I get so involved in local like how did I start getting involved in it? Peg made a great point earlier When you grow up in these situations, you don't have time to focus on anything because you're trying to survive So when I grew up Politics wasn't a thing in my house. It was all about like just what was going on in our little world and So when I when I emancipated myself from that situation and I started exploring the world in my 20s You know, I realized at one point I had a lot of issues so a lot of my 20s was really working on myself and to you know Get myself to a point where I felt like I was a good productive person and I could move past a lot of the darkness That was in my past that was kind of like plaguing me with my own social interactions and relationships.  Just like it burns something deep within me And it just like I just like want to do something about it. And so um, I I went through this whole thing where I was like I'm gonna like create this character That is gonna have like a cult of personality around him Something clicked while I started doing my first videos, which were just commercials for businesses that never asked for them Catch me boolean zoomers. I'm talking about price-flipped in chopper here found it 1932 Basically, they invented not hunting Hop-fire buffet. They even got organic stuff for us libtards till why do you hate shots? I I want to remember to ask you Yeah, so back in the day and so shaws was the nice place and Price shopper is where all the homies went and like it you know as po-dunk it is 24-7 like You know there's people working there missing teeth and shit And I was like yo price chopper for life And so that's kind of like where that joke came from and it's a big inside joke with a lot of my close friends And I've just like kept it to this day and a lot of people are like Yeah, well price shoppers like market to 32 now and it's all nice and stuff And I'm like I was like, yeah, well, that's kind of similar to my story came up like being po-dunk And now I'm like presentable and people wouldn't even tell that I was from there So I have like I have this like I wanted to create a cult personality And I realized that nobody was trying to go for like the crown of Burlington to be the number one townie and Like all of my humor and all of my jokes were all about being a townie And I was like, you know what I'm just gonna like I'm not gonna put on some facade and like talk about like Metaphors of oceans and shit like that. I'm just gonna like I'm just gonna say what I joke around about and just like see how that translates and Ever since I made that decision and just decided to like just be the number one townie people have just Identified with it and flocked to it and it's great for me because I barely have to do anything except turn my personality up Maybe like a couple pegs here But you watch season one, which is like 17 episodes that starts out with the commercials and then ends up more political You know finding my footing I Made this my fourth video in was about the pit and I thought it would be really funny You know all the arguments around it were like people were for them all or against them all and Everybody was hating on this pit no matter what side you're on I thought it would be really funny if like there was a group of people in town that were just like in love with the Pit and we're like standing up for the pit in general as kind of like a way to kind of make fun of the pit I just ordered two pit mugs by the way.  I'm Johnny Wanzer and yep Y'all okay, I think I thought I found a new medium here And so I started exploring stuff that Interested me, but I realized that like when I would talk about Burlington issues I had a lot more fun writing about it and I got a lot more views and so I was like, well, here's my niche here and so I started being really critical of Miro and everything that he was doing because I'm not a fan of him I am a progressive and he is a neoliberal and he is He's just the definition of everything Yeah, he's the definition of everything I hate about stereotypical left leaners, you know, my god, except he's not even pretending Yeah Yeah, and so I pissed him off one too many times and I was taking a break from my videos anyways And I got a nice little letter in the mail That was just like hey, you need to like stop saying these lies about Miro and I'm like not saying lies Let her come from from the city. A lot of my stuff is Is parody and a lot of my stuff is I put the sources literally in the law So like I Ended up I had some lawyers recommended to me and I asked them about it and they watched all my stuff and they're like No, you're fine. He's a public figure.  So I was like out of nowhere. I was like it's season two So and people were like we were in season one. I'm like, yeah, so season one's over now It's season two and you're gonna see my videos just like transcend here. So now like Now the cost of living in the 17 outdoor gear store Wonderland is about 21% higher than the US average Specifically 47% higher with housing because of that putt considers you lower class if you make under 50k a year Now most of y'all living in the college ghetto I didn't name it ain't gotta worry since retail worker harassing daddy six figures cover This as you get your eco science major, but the 60% of us workers. He harasses make under 50k averaging around 25 Yeah, I'm saying numbers and shit learned a lot from your videos. Yeah, so site. That's the goal. Yeah I'm interested in more of the personal stuff. Sure. Let's get into it then. So how did you When you were growing up, I saw that you said that Donnie and Crystal kind of represent your parents.  And so what was there? You know, how was it when you're growing up? What was that like non-existent? Yeah, right, right? Actually, I guess we did say that earlier. Yeah, I exist.  Oh, okay Well, that's my parents like my I have pictures of me in a parade in Rutherford, New Jersey Holding flags with the young Republicans that my parents were a part of you know, yeah First of all, I want to say first of all, my mother was like the most beautiful kind and loving person Anybody could ever meet and everybody who ever met her Wanted her to be their mother but During this one parade, I remember seeing my parents spit on protesters of the Vietnam War and I was like blown away like I Don't know.  I'm just curious how that happened for you. Yeah, I mean they were kind of non-existent Yeah, so they didn't really have politics But the way that I got into it was you know every day before school I'd watch the news, right? and then As I started getting older I found that I liked watching comedy on TV And so we had cable television and like I always found myself either watching like comedy central or something like that And you know, I got into shows like the daily show back in the day Yeah, I started getting into that stuff and it like You know and then the friends that I started making it all kind of just like friends Yeah, and then friends I watched a lot of friends and then uh It just all started making sense to me at a certain point. I was like, oh, I agree with a lot of this and then um Yeah, by the time I was A teenager and playing hardcore shows at 242 like My political views were very much set into a left-leaning sort of way. I just want to yeah, I'm just gonna say I'm an anarchist I'm sorry. I just have to just like just put it out there Yeah, I mean I'm just Yeah, and I but I'm really happy to To support progressives because they're speaking they're able to speak to people Yeah, that's how I felt for years the same. I was like no one is left leaning enough except burning That's it So this is another thing when I'm hearing everybody talking about left leaning and right leaning It's like that's another like thing that kind of bothers me in a lot of ways. Yeah, you know or me going like I'm an anarchist, you know, it's like What does all that really mean all the kind of you know stereotypes again, you know I mean I ended up working with a bunch of filmmakers 20 filmmakers that made this thing called the vermont movie And I learned a really lot about vermont's history and when i-89 came in Things really changed here And you know, there was a whole like influx of You know back to the land or et cetera et cetera And it started really changing the landscape for You know the vermont's that were here before Some some positive and some negative I have a ton of fans that don't live here or who have never even lived here, but just like following me whether it's For the crazy visuals and all the jokes Or it's like I won them over starting with that But then they were like oh, this is an interesting story about this dude Or they like see the concept of what i'm doing and they've never seen it before and it interests them and I also post my stuff on reddit and a lot of people who want to move to burlington Go to burlington reddit to see what's going on. Oh, and so I've actually made a lot of friends and fans From people who did exactly that before they moved here And I've even showed a couple people around who have reached out to me who found my videos on reddit So The appeal is there Which is cool because like a lot of the stuff I make is tailored for people here But then like these people are like what is this world over here? And then they go back and watch everything and they start learning about our city, which is cool So I have plans with each season So season two is burlington centric And my plan is to get people so riled up that people outside of burlington are demanding videos from me And which is already happening. And so my goal by man, let me take you to maple corner So my goal by the end of season two is to basically be the king here But basically have burlington all the things that I've ever wanted to say about burlington like out there And then um, I want to for season three. I want to go vermont and I want to focus on other things St. Albans, uh, a lot of things that happen in are in montpellier, uh, at the at the Government there. Oh, I think you're gonna talk about charliots because oh, yeah I've heard so many stories of people getting kicked out of charliots. No, no, no Yeah Watching your videos besides besides just like Yeah, I will say that I got a lot of people to vote because I told them to So there's there's a start which is fantastic and a lot of people reached out to me and told me that they voted because I educated them and then like like that's the start, right? That's a great start. So but you know, that's a really great question. Why do we like We watch john oliver, right and like You know, is it on him to get us to in to uh get into these not necessarily No, but what he does is he educates us on what's going on and gives us a unique perspective and a comedic perspective With a great accent and he's he's just a good dude. You research the guy and you're like, yo john oliver is the shit So uh For me my main goal is to just educate people to get them like Involved in it And so then when I see an opportunity to plug something that I really believe in My followers will go and do it like When I when I made light and I wasn't the one to break this but I made I focused on um The ex police chief being on the board of the howard center As soon as I did that a week later somebody made a petition to get him out of there And I told my followers to sign up and I got them a thousand fault a thousand signatures in a day And two months later, guess what? He's off the board and he moved out of vermont. So Did I do it? I don't know but I like to just say maybe it helped Well, you definitely instigated something.  I feel like I feel like this is my town. How do I react? I totally agree. Perfect.   Yes In the video in the music video Oh, the spalines. Okay. Yeah. Oh, it's spalines. Oh, I thought it was police.     So it's implied that like donny is like a ladies man to like these working class circles And so like he doesn't like go rape them.    But like yeah, why not just go Break spaline's window. It's more of the uh, so there's more nuance to it And I totally get what you're saying and I totally agree with it The way that I meant to come off with it is uh, when you live in a small town everybody knows everybody, right? And so like Chances are you know the family of the person like who like owns the towing car Like company, right?  I'm not finding the right words here. I actually don't know what mac means. Yeah, I'm not finding the right words here I think you're gonna have to back out back down on this one. Yeah, I think I might have to I think you're gonna have to back down um it's interesting um to hear that feedback on it and you're totally valid with it and I think I could have done a better job at conveying the That and uh, I feel bad if people Uh, take it in that way. Yeah, I think what megan said Yeah helps it make more sense to me honestly because you are Being that character who would think like that. Yeah, but again, you know My take even on like, you know, whatever like making music is like what you put out there Sometimes just adds to the thing.  Yeah, sure Which is and maybe you don't want to talk about it. Okay.   I have panic disorder and um I'm really sensitive to that kind of stuff like I'm not like you can never talk about it, but uh I think mental health is overlooked in this country, especially in workplaces and supporting people with it And just like being able to prescribe stuff with people and a lot of a lot of this stuff You have to pay out of pocket for um, and I think it's not taken as serious as possible Um, yeah, I'm a big advocate for it. And so that post was very genuine Yeah, I didn't see that one Is a picture of me in a flannel and I'm like looking out my phone Yeah, I know I have I have panic disorder also. Yeah, it's so funny when they write that down and that's what it is That's what you have Yeah, it uh, it can be debilitating some days. Um, yeah But you find ways as as you get older you find ways to uh To live with it and to deal with it and so it becomes easier to go through the motions Because you're so used to it, but it still doesn't make it It still is hard to deal with so when people Like talk about these these things like I really feel for them Johnny, have you gotten to see any of Peg's music yet? I listened to her whole album the other day and then I went and watched some videos The latest one you released Which is an old or you just yeah, it sounded like it was older, but it sounded like you just like released it maybe Well, Jair just Jair just remastered it. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I listened to it. It's cool.   We will Thank you for being here anyone. Yeah, that was fun having us. Yeah


I actually am about to be live. I'm Jay Fidel, I'm Think Tech Hawaii and I once in a while do these talk shows and today is with Nicole Lim and we are very excited about that because she is completely overqualified to do a talk show with us here on Think Tech. So we're delighted that she's coming around willing to expose herself to our questions. Welcome, Nicole. Thanks so much, Jay. I'm super excited to be here and excited to talk. Sorry. OK, well, so let's let's talk about let's talk about movers and I was going to say shock us, but I I'm sort of drawn to shakers because it has a double on time. Did you notice that it has a double on time? Doesn't it? It was very intentional, but it's actually movers and shockers. You should go with your gut. OK, whatever. So, you know, if I if I change the pronunciation during the show, you will understand, Nespa. I'll roll with it. OK, so movers and shockers is is a part of another organization. So can you give us the corporate structure? I like to really board people with corporate structures. What do you say? Awesome. Well, we are lucky to be a part of boy executive collaborative. And actually, the origins of our program are quite unique. We were born in twenty twenty during the quarantine times and a group of local business and community leaders came together to try to help the economy since tourism was was pretty much totally decimated. And so they thought, you know, how can we attract a different type of visitor, maybe a more socially responsible one that's going to stay longer than the 14 day quarantine? And also, you know, they saw that there was a lot of local kids coming home that could because they were remote working. And so thus was born movers and chakas. And we've evolved a lot since then in our in our first year, which I'm looking forward to talking about today to really focus on brain game. You know, how do we attract, integrate and retain key talent, especially returning Kamayana to come to Hawaii and really help create a more innovative, sustainable and resilient state? Very, very important.   Did you notice that? I did. It's like chakas and shakers and all that. So OK, I want to tell you that for a time, I was the actually the chair of the High Tech Development Corporation. It's now called the Hawaii Tech Development Corporation. And they had a program similar to this. This was in the year 2000, 2001, right about there. And there were all these local kids that had gone to the mainland, you know, to get into Silicon Valley. And they were smart. They were from the best schools in Hawaii. And they were making money in the Silicon Valley. But then it collapsed. OK, and in any event, the High Tech Development Corporation wanted to bring them back, the brain reversal and bring them back. So I'm serious.  It never worked very well because a lot of them came back and found out there was no jobs anywhere in Hawaii and technology. And that continued and got worse over the decade to follow. But the notion was the same thing. We want to reverse the brain drain. We want to keep our local talent home. We want to invite new town. We want workforce. We want human resources. That's what you're doing, isn't it? Yeah, we're, you know, building on a lot of the great work that people have done before and that people continue to try to do to make Hawaii's future brighter. And a lot of the things you touched on are exactly what we're trying to do. And I think that there is no silver bullet, right? And what we're trying to do is take the challenges and opportunities that have been created from COVID during the pandemic and really build on that. So with, you know, more remote work, there's more flexibility to choose where you want to live, not based on where you work, but where you have ties, you know, family, friend ties, cultural ties. And that gives a lot of flexibility for people to live where they where they want to be. But it's not just that, you know, we're we're trying to look at different ways that we can help Hawaii's economy and and really do that through helping to build personal relationships. We work very closely with you. Hiro and Carl Bottom has once described our program as an accelerator for interpersonal relationships. So I'm always thinking about that. Like if we can build strong ties here, then that will help attract and integrate and retain that talent. So we have two programs. So the cohort fellow program, which we're running our second cohort, starting this Sunday, really about attracting that talent, especially returning Kama'ina to come and contribute to Hawaii for 30 days and ideally longer, even if they return to the continent, they'll stay in touch with the nonprofits and businesses that they work with. Maybe returning Kama'ina will think about moving home. So we're really excited about continuing that program with a lot of exciting changes. And another program we're piloting in April and May of this year is called the Hawaii talent onboarding program. So taking the Hawaii Immersion Program, a very place based orientation that we've cultivated through the cohort program and offering that to local employers to really help integrate and retain talent that they bring from the continent. You know, unfortunately, or fortunately, sometimes we do go to the mainland for talent. And, you know, how do we bring in newcomers? How do we really make them a part of the community and have a sense of belonging, which not only, you know, makes them better at the jobs they do, but really helps enrich the community, right? And create better community members. So we're taking that same kind of program that we've created that focuses on learning, contributing and connecting and offering that to recently relocated professionals as well. Oh, I have a million questions for you. But the first one is you're having a launch on January 9th. That's only a few days away. What is it? How important is that? How will we learn more about that? How will we participate about that? And how will we know what happened there? Yeah, so we're excited about our second cohort that is launching this Sunday. We have about 20% of the cohort are actually local residents in this current rendition. And that was very intentional because we really want to build the bonds of people and erase those perceived boundaries between what makes someone a local, or returning kama'aina, or a visitor and really focus on, you know, the values of Hawaii and how do we help encourage people to contribute to Hawaii in their unique professional skill sets. So yeah, that's launching this Sunday. We postponed this cohort from October because of Delta into the excitement of Omicron as things would have it. Excitement, there's a euphemism for you. Excitement, okay. Learn to be very agile and flexible. And, you know, with our partners, with our cohort fellows, always prioritizing the safety of our participants or volunteers, the community. So we're being very flexible. So you're being very physical, though. Being very physical. Well, this first, this opening day, which is, you know, 12 hours of cultural orientation and education and getting to know their volunteer partner organizations for their 30 hour projects was intended to be in person, but we have switched to virtual. So we'll continue to make those adjustments. We're very focused on having outdoor open air events. But as everyone knows, you know, it's flexibility is the name of the game. It is now, that's for sure. You can change your mind three times in 30 days. Yeah, if only we could get a schedule from the different variants, that would be really helpful. But yeah, we're excited. It's a 30 day program that they will be on island. Many people are staying longer than that, I would say about 80% are staying two months or longer. And a lot of them are staying at our, quote unquote, Olympic Village. We have a great partnership with the Waikiki Malia by Outrigger. So the cohort fellows who wanted to stay there will be staying there. We don't provide any accommodations, but we do provide a free round trip ticket from the mainland to Hawaii. And yeah, we're really excited. You wanna think about a one-way ticket? What are you saying, Nicole? Give them a one-way ticket. Stop, stop them from leaving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a couple of people from the first cohort moved back home, actually returned in Kamayana. So anything is possible. And we're just excited to be able to bring really talented professionals together who care. And that's what we select for. We look at potential long-term contribution to Hawaii, such as their existing ties, like are they in a position to hire remote workers from Hawaii? What are their existing relationships here in Hawaii? We look at program fit. It's really important that people are interested in contributing to their communities and have demonstrated that in the past. And then we look at their fit to the 10 projects that we curated before the application process. Oh, can you talk about the 10 projects? I can. This is really getting interesting. 30 days, 10 projects. That's one project every three days, you know? Well, it's one project per team of five. So we have 10 project teams. Each one tends to have a current resident on it. So it's like intentionally mixed to have that kind of cross-pollination magic. But we're really lucky to work with 10 amazing non-profits and startups here in Hawaii. Three of them are returning from Cohort One. So we'll be working with Hawaii Foundation, with Antiviki on a regional media center. We'll be working with Chamber of Commerce for Hawaii again, with the DOE, and I think three or four Westside High Schools on STEM work-based learning projects. And we're working with the Pantry by Feeding Hawaii together, again with Janine and her amazing team, to help them expand. And this cohort, we're excited to introduce seven new partners. We tried to focus on a few sectors that we felt Hawaii was uniquely positioned to lead and could be critical to our internal sustainability. So looking at agriculture and ag tech, clean tech renewable energies, and kind of affordable housing, houselessness. So some examples of that, we're working with the Hawaii Agriculture Foundation to help create a mobile app. And we gave them an award. We gave them an award at Christmas. Well, there you go. Yeah, Denise, you have a Gucci there. Yeah, Denise Yamaguchi, who we're lucky enough to have on our board as well, will be helping them to develop a locallicious app or website to promote local producers, agriculture and fish, and other resources. We are working with North Shore Economic Vitality Partnership to help group gap-certified some of their smaller farmers. We're working with Pictard on how we can attract R&D from mainland companies to come and test their products here and help build out the innovation sector. We are working with Kamehameh Schools on a live work care building that they're looking to redevelop. So it really runs the gamut. We get to work with students. We get to work with nonprofits and startups. Actually, one startup I should mention coming out of UH is called Nimbus AI. They have this really cool cloud coverage algorithmic prediction that helps solar tech companies be more efficient. So we're excited to. Oh, very nice. Is that of engineering or mathematics? Which department? I'm not actually sure. I will have to check on that. But it's all above my head. But it's pretty exciting that you can predict clouds. Oh, that's fabulous. I remember, for example, there were some films with Oceanit that used laser to determine a database program to determine which was the optimal direction that a wind turbine should face to get the most efficient use of the wind. I was like, wow, right here in Hawaii, doing that, just your Nimbus program sounds just like that, actually. Helping another effort, another organization with technology they might never have thought of. I love when that happens, actually. But let me ask you, where's the focus here? Is it on, maybe it's on all things you mentioned, but is it on people connecting, local people with people from the mainland who spent 30 days in proximity, sort of like APCSS, one of the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies at Fort Darussi, right? There, they teach, of course, they teach from the American point of view, and they try to show these management people from Asia, often military or government people, that the US is in there for altruistic reasons. In many ways, that is the norm. And what they do is they put different representatives of different countries together in the same condo. So by the time their stint is finished, they know people they would never have met and they have lived with these people and they have spent time, your word, bonding with these people from other countries and other disciplines and so forth. So I guess bonding is an important part of what you're doing. And I guess looking into the technology for these various areas you're talking about, I know you haven't finished there or more, but for agriculture, for example, the more technology we put in agriculture, the easier it is for young people to get involved in agriculture because you have to leverage the effort, you have a better chance of successful outcome in your crop and all that. But the third thing, I haven't heard you talk that much about it, that is the entrepreneurial aspect. It sounds like you're exposing the members of the cohorts to entrepreneurs, but are you teaching them how to establish companies? Yeah, lots of great points there, Jay. So I guess starting from the top, cross-pollination and bringing different minds and perspectives together is at the core of our program. This is why we have a diversity of local residents, returning Kamayana visitors, different industries, different functions, people from all over the country, actually pretty widespread all over the country. And this is very intentional because we think that there can be interesting innovative ideas that come together. And if we are to bring everyone together and help create that shared vocabulary in a way, which is what we try to do through the culture education, we also, we have Naha Native Hawaiian Hospitality Association come in and talk about native Hawaiian values and culture and language. We're having an interesting panel with different community leaders on the challenges and opportunities as Hawaii is a melting pot. And we have Glen Furuya coming in to talk about the unique blend of Polynesian, Asian and Western influences and kind of communication and culture here in Hawaii. So our hope is that we can prepare people to be able to communicate and connect with the community and structure things in a way that allows bonding and then see what happens afterwards. So it's both a science and an art and a lot of the magic happens in a way that can't be predicted. And our role is really to kind of create that environment, foster those connections and really actually help facilitate the connections for that to happen. We've been lucky after cohort one, we had a cohort fellow Ferileo, who's the CEO of a company called NextRep, a remote call center. We connected him with D-Bed and they were able to partner to help launch the pilot for remote work. And I believe as of late last year, there was about 300 plus remote opportunities that had been created for Hawaii residents. That's not something that I can put into my strategic plan to know will happen. But if we're able to connect people together and really identify the type of people who have the resources and heart really to want to contribute, anything is possible. And our role is really to help create that space and also to bridge that gap between understanding local needs and access to kind of that national supply of talent to bring people together. So that's really the aim of the program. What about entrepreneurship? Have you encouraged the creation of companies?  We're not focused on that, like a lot of the amazing accelerators that we have in Hawaii, like Blue Startups or Elemental Accelerator, but we do actually work with the startups because the accelerators, because we want to offer the expertise that we bring in to their companies. And the hope is that we will bring in people who will potentially move here and start companies, but it's not necessarily the sole focus. And I think that there is such a robust ecosystem that there is so much that can be done by bringing smart and talented and experienced people together who have the right intentions, the right heart to contribute to the community. Yeah, I worry about the tech industry here. It meant a lot of resistance from and after the time I told you I was with the High Tech Development Corp. And since then, a lot of people came under Act 221 and a tax credit back in the first decade. When 221 failed and ended with early sunset, they left and that was a huge loss for Hawaii because these people had been working here and many of them had been trained or come from the mainland. So the big thing is whether to me the larger environment supports the notion of giving homage, giving support and encouragement to the human resources you're talking about. And that means the legislature, the governor, all the agencies and the business community. I know you have some support from the business community and I'm happy to hear there are accelerators that are functioning three or four of them you mentioned. That's great, but are you satisfied with the environment that expresses appreciation and encouragement for the members of these cohorts? Yeah, I think it's, it takes a village, right? It takes an ecosystem and we have a big challenge in front of Hawaii with a lot of smart people trying to tackle it in different ways. So from our perspective, we're a small program and we will continue to work with our partners that we're excited to learn from as well. And we as a small program get the opportunity to really test things very quickly and working with systemic level partners like New Hero and D-Bed to really see what role we can play. So it's not, there's no silver bullet, I think we've heard lots of people say that and it's gonna be all about each of us, individuals, organization, businesses, government, kind of doing our piece, right? Our piece of the puzzle and then coming together so we can see the bigger picture and collaborate together. Yeah, collaboration is everything, isn't it?  You know, you can't fade, you have to keep, you know, sustainability is best met when you're sustainable. Did I say that? Yeah, I actually said that. I wanted to ask you about this possibility. Suppose you become aware now, you're Eolani and Wharton. So you have a Rolodex, okay? And you know some people in the East Coast, I mean, like even on Wall Street where you might have gone, but you decided not to. And, you know, maybe those people would be useful members of the cohort or at least of the workforce, the human resources that we would like to connect with here to build, you know, the brains, the brain game. But they're not coming. On the other hand, as you also mentioned, we have Zoom. And the COVID has taught us about Zoom and has opened new vistas about Zoom, okay? So if I give you somebody in, I don't know, let's say Manhattan and say, look, you know, Hawaii is a great place. We have great culture. We have a great people thing going on here. And we can really use your talent. We know you can't come, we know that. For one reason or another, who knows what it is. But we know also that you have a nice laptop and you can join us by Zoom all day long and you can consult and confer. You can even be part of a cohort theoretically, even though you're not physically here and you can be within our embrace. Are you doing that? Have you thought about that? Will you do that in the future? I mean, that is exactly what our program is about. We do believe that that in-person foundation, though, is so important. And as I mentioned, we believe that a lot of the magic will continue to happen after the cohort, but really starting with that really strong connection to begin with.  So it's that same mentality.  And there's still very much a huge impact that can be made in-person, right? Being here in Hawaii, like understanding what our community is about, like understanding the land as well and, you know, like being in it, which is why, you know, we take the time to, you know, go and, you know, help restore who we lose a fish pond or, you know, work in the low-eat this time. We'll be partnering with Kaalafarm. So, you know, all of those things, experiential piece, I think, is so important that will really help people connect. So, yeah, I definitely think it enables a lot of continued contribution. And it's also very important to kind of create that foundation. Yeah, well, you know, we live in a world where it's really important to connect. And furthermore, there are lots of tools to connect. And the true is tools today that were not around 10 years ago at all. And people are aware of the tools they could or they can or they do use the tools. So I wanted to ask you one other thing, and that's this. We have a very, you know, I'm sure they talk about this at Wharton every single day. We have a very funny kind of economy going on now. You know, we've been for two years now plus, we've been delivering under the black cloud of COVID. A lot of people don't work. They don't want jobs. They resign from jobs. They can't have jobs. A lot of businesses fail. Every time you turn around, something else is failing. And, you know, there are those who feel that the economy is like an oppressor, an oppressor. You know, you can have a robust stock market, but that's not necessarily based on reality. I used to think it was. I know that I no longer think it's based on reality. But there we are, the stock market is at the very top. And, you know, locally too, there's a lot of people who are not productive as they used to be, not ambitious. They don't have a plan. It's hard to have a plan in the time of COVID. And plans are essential to business, essential. How can you build a business without a plan? And you can't make a plan if you don't know what's going to happen next month. You know, Omicron is not the last variant. Always have to remember that the thing mutates while you watch. And the more cases, the more mutations, it's so logistic. So anyway, my question to you, which is not intended to be an easy question, is how can you have all this optimism about putting people together and making a robust, you know, state of newly revitalized, vitalized, you know, kids and human resources to create a great economy when the economy is under a black cloud and it's uncertain. And you don't know how sustainable it will be. How do you deal with that? I think there are always opportunities with big challenges. And this program is an example of that, right? An innovation born out of a big challenge. And all the things you mentioned are very daunting. And I also know that we have to try, right? We might fail many, many times, but it's important that we try and continue to innovate. And so that's what keeps me optimistic because I think that there's a lot of people with great skills and a lot of heart. And I firmly believe that we can bring them together and we'll be in a better place than if we don't try for sure. You know, you described an ecosystem which is admirable and I've seen many parts of that ecosystem and I agree with you that it is admirable. People coming together and doing things for the benefit of the community. You mean, Hawaii does have that. We do have your part of that. And admiration goes to you. But the question is, where is it going? Sustainability, but we need, actually I'm gonna tell you something Nicole, we need more than sustainability. We need growth. We need expansion. We need it to be bigger and better every time you look. It should thrill you and excite you every time you look. Are we going there? I sure hope so. And I hope to be a part of it, you know? Cohort by cohort, day by day, person by person. And that's how we're gonna make an impact. We're gonna find needle movers who can make exponential impact. So yeah, I remain optimistic. How will you know, what are the metrics? What are the experiences? What's the feedback that will make you know that you have been successful in these efforts? That you have taken it where you wanted to, that you have achieved the mission at least in substantial part. How will you know? Well, we gather lots of data, lots of survey data and try to quantify these things. And that's why we work with you, Hero and D-Bed, trying to measure over time. But a deeper kind of heart answer is, are we bringing people together and is the product of that bringing together good for the state? Are we having a positive impact on economic growth, on bringing families back together? There's a lot of different ways to measure KPI. So there's a lot of different ways to measure impact. And I think that we're very focused on measuring all those pieces.  And if we can answer that in all the different ways, qualitative and quantitatively, I think that's the key.  And marching towards growth and expansion and all those amazing things you mentioned while keeping people at the center of that mission. Yeah, well, it's about leadership. And certainly, the ecosystem you described has plenty of leadership, plenty of admirable people. But you also need leadership in government. I mentioned before, there are those who feel the government has not done enough, or they put it this way. In our tumultuous democracy, which is not only tumultuous in Washington, it's tumultuous here too. You know, it's hard to get a handle on a given value and initiative. What happens is they turn over. You got new elections, new people in office, new people appointed and so forth. So my last question to you, which is not intended to be easy, is it? I wouldn't expect anything last day. Thank you. What is your message to the government of Hawaii? All of the elected officials, all of your appointed officials, all the bureaucrats, all the people who work for government. And I have something to say about the way government operates and the way it engages with you and your cohorts. What message would you like to leave for them, Nicole? Yeah, I mean, we actually try to work very closely with government. And I do believe that the key is public-private partnerships. You know, there is kind of the scale and heft that the government has and reach, which I think is so important. And, you know, the private sector has more agility, right? Like, we can move much more quickly because we're smaller. We can test and learn much faster. And so I believe that the secret to move forward is that public-private partnership that we work together, collaborate, are able to each do what we do well and move together that way. So, yeah, no scathing words, unfortunately, Jay. Oh, no, I'm not seeking that. Just positive advice to them. The session is about to start. Unfortunately, it's probably not gonna be a physical session. But, you know, I'm just seeking your advice to them about what the priorities should be, where this fits. Yeah, I think this should be a key priority. And we're really lucky to work with D-Bed, have spoken a lot with different senators and representatives as well. And I know that there's just a lot of interest in that public-private partnership and being able to help fund and sponsor initiatives like ours that try to move very quickly, right? And agilely so that, and with intention, I should say, so that we can take it to a higher, more-scaled level together with the government and other large organizations. So I think it's really exciting. You know, I like to be this kind of scrappy, smaller program, but also get to work with, you know, the government and large organizations and businesses to really make as big of an impact that we can together for our state. That's great, Nicole. I only have one last question, which I cannot resist. This is your very last question, Day. Yeah, you are. That's the way it goes. And we're over time too, but hey, that's the way it goes. I can really relate to what you're doing, but scrappy nonprofits is very important. And, you know, they do a lot in the community. So my last question is movers and shakers, where did that come from? And what role did you have in establishing that name? That came from the board, came up with that, and I actually came on afterwards. So the reason I got involved was actually part of some of the initial public backlash, local backlash we had against the program. So I found out about the program through a main line of acquaintance and was viscerally upset about it, you know, thinking like, why are we bringing outsiders in during COVID? Drive my rent up, destroyed the Loha spirit. And I had just been traveling for five years as an outsider in other global communities. And so that cognitive dissonance was so strong within me that I wrote an op-ed article in the Star Advertiser, kind of exactly what I just said, talked about those kind of initial resistance to the program and literally being viscerally upset about it, and also reflected though on that feeling, you know, that anti-outsider feeling being so innate, so kind of that us first them tribal mentality. And we have to acknowledge those feelings and we also have to ask ourselves, you know, how do we welcome newcomers? Like, how is this, this is not a zero sum game, you know, like even if we emotionally want to shut everyone else out, that's actually not beneficial for us. So, you know, being able to acknowledge those emotions and feelings and then, you know, think about how do we hold everyone accountable to the community? So in a twist of fate and a very ironic and fortuitous one for me, a few of the founding board members reached out to see if I would like to run the program. And I was very surprised, but once I found out, you know, how dedicated the business and community leaders were behind this program, it felt like a dream job for me, you know, like being able to come home as a return in Kama'aina to take all those privileged experiences on the mainland, both in education and career, and apply that here to Hawaii and in a very entrepreneurial way and working in an ecosystem, that's my dream job. So I continue to do it and I'm excited about it. It shows, it shows, but, you know, also I just want to mention as we go off the air here that, you know, finding cognitive dissonance actually can be beneficial. You heard it here. I'm thinking with Nicole Lim of Movers and Shockers. Thank you so much, Nicole. Thank you so much, Jay. Thank you for having me. Aloha.