Welcome to Dear to Dream. This is Debbie Dashinger. I've got somebody amazing here today, as always, always looking forward to these kind of quantum conversations, little seed I dropped there, because today's show features Anna Leverence, who's a quantum leap facilitator and multi-dimensional quantum healer. This is Dear to Dream with Debbie Dashinger. This show won the COVR Award for Best Radio and Podcast Show, listed in Welp Magazine as one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to this year, listed as a top self-improvement show on Apple Podcasts, nominated for two People's Choice Podcast Awards and a Webby Award. This show is sponsored by Dr. Dane here in Access Consciousness. They do energy work out in the world. You can become a facilitator or go to one of their classes, go to drdanehere.com or accessconsciousness.com. I'm Debbie Dashinger and I teach spiritual entrepreneurs the action steps to write a highly engaging book. I am a book writing coach. I also have a company that takes author's books to a guaranteed international best-selling status. And it's fully done for you. And finally, I teach you how to be interviewed on radio and podcast and get massive results. For all of us, spiritual entrepreneurs, shifting into 5D and Ascension, our visibility is imperative. And this is why I teach what I do. If you want to start out with a free gift, I've got one for you. It's got templates and videos so you can start doing this yourself. Go to Debbie Dashinger.com slash gift. It's D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R.com slash gift. So yes, my special guest today is Anna Leverance. She's the founder of the quantum way of being and creating quantum magic miracles. The path of Anna's life was full of challenges with sudden and unexpected change. And while on that tumultuous path, she mastered the art of change and began creating the impossible. Anna is highly gifted at perceiving unobvious connections and unexpected possibilities. Anna is a passionate coach, a mentor for successful change and teaches how to create quantum magic miracles. The result of Anna's work is transcending the blockages holding you back, releasing old fears and healing your wounded heart and psyche, which gives her clients more freedom, joy and fulfillment. She is a multi-dimensional quantum healer, a quantum leap facilitator, and a catalyst who holds space for the magical journey of deep and lasting change. You can learn more about Anna at quantumwayofbeing.com slash brilliance. And with that, I welcome the amazing Anna Leverance to Dare to Dream. It's great to see you, Anna. Great to see you, Debbie. Thank you for having me. It's really a pleasure. Yeah. It's crazy. I want to just start with the crazy because you shared something before the show started and obviously it needs to be shared here because if you're going to make the claims you do, it's good if you live that, right? Are you living in the quantum? Are you living magic and miracles? And so I just want to start with my point of view, which I've been thinking about knowing we were coming up to this date. I've known you for a little bit now and you actually were one of my classes. And every time we had a contest and I ran, I would say pretty damn good contest, like a very valuable, expensive private session with me and other things. So there were valuable prizes. And every time I ran a contest and they were completely at different times, you won every single time. Like no one else in the class had a chance.   Yeah, sure. So a while ago, some years ago, I came across your beautiful podcast and loved it. Watching it again and again, it was so inspiring.  What a brilliant name for the podcast. And yeah, I dare to dream. And around this time, my guides told me something about the dreaming. Yeah, we know like dream big, dream big. Imagine what you can and dream big. And they said, well, that's great. But you know, this is actually a limitation. Dream bigger, you know how. And I said, who? How, how to? Well, just bigger, you know how. Allow and the only limit is your beliefs. It is not your imagination. We can imagine the most magnificent wonderful things. And then there is these tiny beliefs programs stopping us. Okay. Dream bigger, you know how the only limit is your belief. And we go from there. My guides and me and I was working through this. And I think it is about 18 months ago when I was working with somebody about my, a chain of my business name. And the result is this in this special writing. And she said, oh, by the way, here's a message.  Okay. Okay. I heard this two times after this. And the second, say the third time I heard it. They also said, have you thought about how to share your wonderful program with a large audience worldwide? And I came to my mind. Yeah, there to dream. How to, how to very simple. One Saturday morning, just before I get up, I looked at my phone and got this YouTube little clip from Debbie offering her challenge said, hmm, how timely. Yeah. So I joined the challenge. I learned so much. It was amazing. And I really recommend it. And then there was, oh, by the way, you can, when you go through all of this, you can win the session, a free session with her. I said, yeah, cool. Me, me, I need it. And then I won the session and I joined your program. And yeah, the rest is history. It's incredible. You've come so far.  You're the kind of person I tend to attract the spiritual entrepreneur deep into the healing and you're hungry and willing. Like you don't know how it doesn't matter. I'll show you how, right? You don't have to know the how you just have to say yes. And that's, that's what I love about you. And something you just said was so powerful.  Dreaming is too small. You have to go beyond that. And there's something I said this morning, so it's like an amazing synchronicity. And I've been trying to remember to say this more, which is universe. Please give me more than I am willing to receive. And you could even say universe, please give me more than I'm willing to believe. Because it's all true.  And, but I also, because, you know, we made note coming in, it wasn't always like this, right?  Can you give us a glimpse into what the challenges and changes entailed? And then how you got from these challenges and changes into living today in the quantum and miraculous realm. Well, just to give you an idea why this happened to me, because that was something I did not understand. And by the way, if somebody is looking for your, for your specialty, your, your purpose or something, that might actually be something that is your fault that you're not good at. So with me. So years ago, it was not that common that you had changed the job that you have to change the city you were, you live in. All these changes and people said, hmm, you're so, you're not stable. What's wrong with you? What's wrong with me? No idea. And by the way, something that I really practice and later learned when I asked this, okay, what's wrong? What is wrong? What's wrong? No, what, what is wrong? And then guidance gives you the answer. It's different. Like, okay, I want to know, please show me. It's always please show me. I don't know. Please show me how. So at a certain time in a new company, I had a colleague. She was fond of astrology and we became friends. And she asked me to do my, my horoscope and yeah, sure, I'm curious.  Okay, what is it? In your, your first house, you have Uranus. That is sudden unexpected change again and again and again. How did you survive so far? I said, well, somehow I did. I see, I see, I see. Because in your horoscope, there also is a Jupiter conjunct with Uranus, meaning whatever mess you might encounter, you have this good luck factor with you. So this is what guiding me through all kinds of stuff. And pretty early on, I, I was guided from within because I did not really find understanding or something relating in the outside. So I was really asking from within. Okay. How to, how to, and getting answers and being guided. And so my most, well, there, there was so many challenging things. I can read books, write books about it. And actually I am the process of doing so. Maybe you asked something. Otherwise I'm telling you a long story. And we don't have that much. Yeah, of course. So, so it's fascinating to me because it sounds like what you're saying. A lot of chaos, basically.  And then the chart basically says, yeah, your soul agreed on this. But the good news is there's going to be a lot of changes. There's going to be a lot of changes. However, you got a lucky star, which is awesome. Thank God, right? It's not just more chaos. So you're going to find your way through. So, you know, there's a new, I understand that I've had that happen like with human design, which so, you know, when somebody did a reading and I suddenly went, oh my God, there's so much about me that now that makes sense and how I'm supposed to work with people and so much less efforting. So I get it that these things can be catalysts. And so, you know, it's like, how, how do you function now? And what is the quantum exactly? Explain that. I have an energetic sense for it. And knowing that we were doing this interview. I sort of play, I've been playing in it. And I can tell you what I've been doing. That I have been. Like when I go to sleep. And I don't know it like, you know it, I don't know if I'm going to fall asleep and closing my eyes. And just inviting myself into the quantum in a zero point. I put those words there because they energetically make sense to me. And I don't know that they do go together. And then I, it's like a blackness, a no thing. And into that no thing. I bring in the things I desire and the kind of life I want and everything about health where I want to live. Who I want to be with romantically friends. So I think that's, that's a big thing. And I feel like it's a big deal. I feel like it's a big deal. It's a big deal. I feel like I'm going to travel. finances, business, all of it. And at some point I drift off. And so. Yeah. Tell me about that. You perfectly. You perfectly described it. I do not need to add much more. Maybe one little thing you can, if you want to work in the quantum. of it like you have a website, and you can think of the quantum like the source code of your website.  But be careful what you wish for it might be given to you. Oh, give an example. What do you mean by that? Who do you know? Or was it you or a client who wished for something? And it was a little much. I do not know. I say I do not remember the details. But we have to understand that the boost, the energy boost is always the emotions, or the emotions is the the coloring. So if you have a wonderful, say you you have a mantra, you recite and that's it and then you say, yeah, then you add this energy to your wonderful manifestation, and then you get less than brilliant. So this is one aspect.  And so long ago, it was when the what is it when you have your vision boards, we're just the greatest thing to have. I had a client and he loved it. And he had the idea I want this particular brand of a car, very rare car, and I wanted in I don't know what color. And he could not find it because it is such a rare brand. He just took any he finally could find. There it was. Guess which color he manifested. Yeah. I know this. I just take it. Maybe maybe he should have. Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. I once I wanted a Lexus sports car, you know, many years ago now, but I was really adamant and it had to be a deep forest green and you know, wood inside.  And they said, no, that would probably be almost impossible. I went, okay, that's fine. Bye. And actually at the time I had a vision board, but what I did with my vision board is that the same thing I would like go to sleep or wake up and see the different things on my vision board. And they call me a week later and said, you're not going to believe this, but we got the exact car you describe like, yeah, I do, I believe. And I will say also, Anna, when when you describe the most important ingredient is the is the emotions for the color.  And I did two of them, I did really well, I did them in five hours and the second year, I wanted to best my own time, I needed a new goal. And so I decided to take, I think like, I wanted to take like 30 minutes off of my time, which is like huge, it's kind of huge. And still, every night for two weeks, I would lay in a bathtub, soaking after training. And I would envision the finish line and always, not only was it the time and going through the finish line, always it was the joy, the elation, always the celebration of making it, doing it. And come the day of that year's race, I went through the finish line. And when I looked up at the clock, I had cut one hour off of my, which is, it's almost not humanly possible. And when I got through that finish line, I burst into tears. The people who take the chip off your sneaker ran forward thinking something was terribly wrong. I'm like, no, no, I'm so happy. But I believe now, hearing what you just said, it was the emotion that sealed the deal. I had the vision. Yeah, thank you for saying that. That is really the fuel and the fine tuning. Tell me some other tenants of this miraculous way of being, this creation. Other what? I didn't hear it. Other talents? Tenants, meaning tell me some other practices, if you will, for people to create in the quantum and miraculously, like really, universe, bring me beyond anything I can conceive. Where to start? To understand that goals are actually limitations. This is my goal. I run, I go for this. I don't look left or right. I, so goals can be limitations. And that is why discipline fails. And because why? Your soul says, hey, sweetie, we need some course correction. This goal no longer serves you. And when we look back at the last three years, there's many goals and dreams, they no longer are possible or no longer serve us. And that is why discipline does not work because soul says no, sorry. That's not it. And what kicks in then is this horrible thing, procrastination. Oh, yeah. I had my own experience and you were sort of the suffering from this. I knew I had to give you my details and everything. I was not, I had it on paper. I was not able to send it. I said, hmm, yeah, procrastination. Procrastination is the lack of commitment. Am I not committed? Well, you are. Okay, what else is it? It is not the right thing. Not the right thing. Oh, oh. So what is it? And going through my own process and really just flowing with it, expanding into it, dreaming bigger. I know how and it suddenly it all clicked, came together and said, okay, it was completely crap. This is not what is really relevant because what I live with myself and then it clicks and then I know how to present it to my clients and what is necessary. And what I came up with is embrace your brilliance and magnificence, which is a big one. But I think that is, at the moment, the only thing really worth going for because embrace it, meaning you not only own it, you start living it and if you are not sure, like, or could show me how to, what else do I need? What's in my way? What programs? What patterns beliefs I need to let go of to really become aware of all my brilliance and my gifts and talents that had been, that were of no value to the old world, but we are moving into a new one. And suddenly all these weird stuff is of intense value. Like I know of a woman who always felt of, how to put it, she has an incredible gift which seemed to be anything but a gift. She is extremely gifted by her sheer presence and even in childhood to disrupt very harsh patterns, frozen patternings. Yeah, that is creating havoc, if you will. And so finally, when we were working through her stuff, it is actually a gift because she is really somebody who can help her clients who are in a cement block, if you will, to get out of it, help them with her special gift, energy field, to set them free. And with this idea and what is really needed because many people are still stuck in the old belief, in the old paradigm, not knowing how to proceed, how to move on there. You cannot go to university and study how to master 5D. You have to walk your way through it and at a certain point you want to leap just to where you go, where you need to be. And yeah, and people, we are so trained conditioned to push, push, push. Yeah, and then there's all and gifting you with procrastination and something else and pushing no longer really works because we do not need to be at a certain point on a timeline. It is about divine timing and divine timing is not about a date or a time on the clock in 3D linear time, it is about matching frequency. And when you do your inner work and seemingly getting nowhere and suddenly you match the frequency of something on a higher level, you just want to leap there, no idea how you got there. When you look back you get an idea how it happened, but it is really about divine timing. Be here now and something really, what really works is to remind yourself be here now, be not to do here, nowhere else and now, not in the past, not in the future, worrying about anything, but and by the way it is always now. Now is part of eternity, so be here now when I say this, well I say this from the heart, my body, my everything knows okay we are here now and then be amazing, amazing yes we all are amazing beyond our imagination and be yourself because we only can be ourselves and with this in my sometimes well difficult 3d challenges I just remind myself be here now, breathing, arriving in the here and now my body, my heart, be here now, be amazing, meaning I allow myself my amazingness that the outside world told me does not exist and then be yourself, who else can I be, I can only be myself and this is the gift, God's gift to this world is me, is you, is each of us when we are ourselves and part of this is daring to be in our truth and truth when we look around us is the main missing ingredients in this world, in this mad world and if we found our when we find our own truth within our heart together with our soul and source and then we can stand in our truth then we are grounded and we are we have boundaries and we connect to the earth and to soul and source and go from there we stand in our truth and that is where authentic power comes from. Thank you that was and from there there was a beautiful transmission anything is possible, right? I want to ask you want to follow up on what you're saying Anna, by the way her name is capital A and N capital A, it's kind of cool, so Anna with what you're saying with the divine timing and I'll just say this about procrastination, I don't do it much but I'm human, yes of course now and then and I know like I know like I know on the other side of procrastination is the greatest feeling of freedom and creation always, right and I don't know we all have different things in our minds that stop us prevent us and I know that procrastination is different than overwhelm because I've had both overwhelm is just there's too much on my plate and I literally don't know quite how to get to everything and then something needs to shift right something needs to change or I need to start saying no or letting go of things that's different but procrastination is that I'm highly aware of something that needs to get done and there's usually a timeline involved and I'm just ignoring it which only creates pressure, it doesn't go away, it's actually really uncomfortable so yes agreed I think and I think there's so much flow on the other side so I know you're a believer in flow and synchronicity can you give some examples with the work you do either from your life or clients lives of flow and synchronicity? It is actually the result of the work so somebody has an obstacle something to work on and sometimes even physical pain or disease stuff and looking for the root cause of whatever they're struggling with or ailing from and going deeper and and wider and so I'm always asking to the root cause of whatever we are dealing with and from there things can be seen and can be released and can be rewritten in the quantum so this not only changes as with many work like family constellations and QHHT and the like, it changes your life it changes the life of your future ancestries and it changes back in your in your ancestries and it so flow any kind of say pain obstacle whatever is sort of a not a blob in your energy flow and when we with the intention to to solve to solve it to dissolve it to transcend it it is done I cannot explain it and people asking and some giving me incredible testimonials explaining me what I did to me what I did because it's different any every time because every client is different situation is different and I invite you just to to attune to it and if you're not sure about if say if you feel attracted but not sure you can have a clarity call with me and we can check is this the right thing for you and if so what especially do you need at this point in your life on your evolutionary journey so let me give people a URL there since you're going to make that really generous offer go to quantumwayofbeing.com slash brilliant so you can do a consult call with Anna and Anna just this just feels appropriate right now and we are I'm going to ask you if you would give us a very brief doesn't have to be long maybe five minutes three minutes experience and specifically what I'm looking for is for people who are watching and listening who have an issue and they'll all be different can you take us through something so we can transcend that and instead live in a miraculous space and having said that here's my caveat people are watching on youtube people are listening on podcasts however this also goes to radio and because radio cannot have silence or they'll think something is damaged with the program if it's possible Anna to not have silence but to keep talking us through that would be spectacular would that be okay I don't know where to start there's some basically yes I don't know exactly should we flow and synchronize just and you and you're welcome to if it makes it easier for you because I don't want to put you on the spot but if it feels good right and light focus you know you could use me as your every man every woman your conduit and then I will be a generator for everybody how does that sound oh maybe if it's okay for you you be my guinea pig and you share what you want to focus on what you have an issue with is struggling with and I focus on this and see where we get is that okay or is it too much doesn't need to be something big I am going through some really big things right now and tremendous change and so I am going to have a shift in where I live and that also concurrently is a shift in other circumstances in my life and so that's a lot of what I've been using the quantum for at night to envision this home and a safe place and at a price that feels really good and you know all the things I want you know my dog and I are happy and all this time so um yeah that would be great that would be a great place to start because on top of I'm in shaman school I've got a podcast I run my coaching business I've so much happening so much life and then on top of it to be looking searching for places driving there it's it feels it's not comfortable I'm doing it I'm showing up I know God will take care of me the goddess is there I'm loved I'm seen I'm held but it also energetically and emotionally is a lot because there is an ending of something that is creating this new beginning you're in the doing mode so you change into the state of being there is and yeah we are human we became human doings so you are in the doing mode habitually we all are so and then you go into the state of being and in the state of being you just are your busy mind can rest and you are in the receiving mode because with all that you are facing at the same time you you don't know what you don't know so you plan from the old knowledge and what you can imagine and when you dream bigger you know how it's beyond your imagination so surrender to your soul to your guidance and now it will be incredible and this really I I feel for you there's so much potential and at this very moment you are literally taking not one quantum leap you are multi quantum leaping so to speak because it is so many aspects of your life simultaneously and when you try to figure out and get it done in in the physical you're overworked it's far too much and you you get sort of in the way of yourself because your team says Debbie relax just really allow to receive and maybe when you just allow yourself procrastinate nating and are not on time with something and by the way this is what really happened to me lately again and again I had some clients lined up mentoring clients weekly clients and I felt actually I do need two days off or something different for my inner work guess what everybody cancelled so we postponed the session and maybe you allow yourself to okay please guides team by the way I have a virtual virtual team everybody has the VA and I have virtual virtual VA's on cloud nine and say hey guys you know much better than I do please arrange it I'm ready for miracles for any kind of unexpected stuff expect the unexpected because all these things the further we go along this line with earth things become more and more unpredictable and what is the essence of human beings human beings are made in the image of God and we are creator beings and the essence of a human being is being creative being unpredictable and being humorous so when you're just attuned to this essence of being human being creative unpredictable meaning you cannot plant and you are able to flow with it and take it with humor and no it does work out beyond your imagination there thank you thank you yeah I've been incorporating some of that but that is that is uh well it's beyond a reminder it's well actually it is like let go and let God totally yeah and God has a plan for you a very big one much bigger you could imagine even though you have such beautiful big dreams it's going much bigger in a different way much bigger and so much needed thank you I really receive all of that and I hope that helped other people too who may be feeling you know they've got a change going on or a challenge going on and they can incorporate the same wisdom that Anna shared into their situation um that is my greatest hope and Anna I know that you are uh living in the black forest in Germany and are there a lot of people there who are into what you do who are metaphysical what is it like there well actually I'm in the middle of nowhere and um I really enjoy it literally in the middle of nowhere in at the at the outskirts of a village next to the to the forest and um I was guided to online business about six seven years ago to look into it and that is where I find my people my tribe my clients because around here is lovely people but they are in into very normal stuff they're nice neighbors and but that's all but yeah I enjoy it I'm very grateful to be here being guided to this place and hold the the frequency the space here and work with clients worldwide well that's nice I love that you're in a place that you sync with that that you resonate with that's beautiful and yeah I love that idea of peace as well living in a really peaceful place I know you've said there's no set curriculum or x steps instructions on how to navigate the quantum field you reconnect to your soul directed quantum gps which enables you to enter the flow and navigate uncharted territories as needed can you tell me some of the details about one's souls quantum gps there is no details what it is is really you sink into your heart space your consciousness connect with your soul and go from there and from there and you connect with source and with the earth and from there you connect to your soul's knowledge vast souls knowledge and beyond at the pace you and your body can handle and this kind of knowledge is rather knowing you tapping into the eternal knowing yet that your soul is connected to and you get the downloads the information the very moment you need it like a light bulb moment or an epiphany something like this and synchronicities about it just so happens so it's really nothing for yeah sorry go ahead it's nothing you can understand with your linear left brain mind it is you can comprehend it with your with the body and and your mental and emotional system so it's not the mind your mental system is different and you attune to it that's different so it's nothing here like you attune to it so like I'm I'm reading people I'm not really reading I attune to it and their guides communicates through me what my client needs to know and this can anybody can do this it's practice we have to unlearn all the crap we have been programmed with have you always been like this were you always able to perceive what was happening in someone else's space yes I turned it off because I heard people's thoughts and replying to this and I hadn't had a horrible terrible experience with with the boss in the company so he was known for he was just walking through all the the area and talking to himself and sometimes there was a question and I heard the question but it was not a question he was questioning something that he tried to sort of hide and I was replying that was not a good thing so yeah I shut it off at this time but I learned said I need to know I'm willing to need I'm willing to perceive what I need to know for myself and in my work with clients everything else I don't want to know it's too much what was the transition then because that's a big deal I get it what was the transition between you shutting that down that ability that gift and coming back into it and allowing it receiving it back into your life how did you decide or what happened that caused those increments to be where you are right now well it happened around 2000 yeah I think was 2000 when I came across a spiritual school spiritual school of ascension and I joined and it was really like coming home on the physical plane and learning there how to undo all of this and and tapping really into my my channel and somewhere in between I also learned channeling and with this channeling I also learned be clear what you want to receive and really check who or what you are channeling and be very specific and have boundaries and this is one thing that many of the so-called empaths are struggling with they don't have boundaries and they're receiving the broadcast from everyone around them they don't know how to handle this and this is something I support my clients with also and this also is by the way this link to the brilliance that is a three-month group mentoring I'm offering starting in June yeah okay talk about that how do people work with you what kind of work do you offer and you know tell us about that so I have this group mentoring starting in June three months 13 weeks and we are working through different topics it is two groups one for say from New Zealand to Central Europe and Central Europe to Pacific because of the time zones and well there is certain topics I focus on but each group is different and I attune to the people in this group so that is one thing this group mentoring and otherwise I do have one-on-one mentoring 12 weeks and I offer some special work it's called the crucial point sessions it is a series of three to get to the crucial point of an issue and I learned over the years one session is a good thing but oftentimes there is something deeper or something more so when you have three sessions in a row three weeks you really get it done that I think that's really true for most people I was just saying that last night to somebody I know that he hired somebody to work on something specific and you know saying so how did it go and I know this person he worked with is amazing but you know I still think especially when you have like a pervasive issue look miracles we all know it could be like this so let me just say in advance anybody can discreate anything like this absolutely and it could be one session but I do think for most people when you have something pervasive ongoing it's been with you you've tried everything it's probably good to book three sessions and just really commit to handling whatever is going on so I very much believe in it and I was just saying this last night to somebody I want to know are there any other ways that people work with you that we should know about and are you going to procrastinate on your book or are you going to get it done now you have to join my book I will I've already connected with you so yeah I will go deeper with this so what I also do I do not really promote this widely I do energy work like clearing work because oftentimes in really difficult situations we come to a point when there is some kind of attachments like implants entities you name it and I do this for people pets houses and places that's awesome because I need to power that and it can be really deep stuff because over the years again and again I came across some abuse stuff in a mentoring package and then yeah we have to work on this so this is part of this package and sometimes this person talks about it to a friend and they said maybe there's something weird with this too with me and I can do this and always I have this clarity call up front to check what do you need if do you need this 60 90 minutes energy call energy clearing or what do you need just to start with something and with this sometimes you get really to to the root cause of some health issue because it's energetic it can be a curse a spell or something from a past life fascinating very what ritual do you do Anna do you have a daily practice that you engage in that keeps you centered in the flow of magic and miracles and all of that yeah very simple too simple for many people it is really a breathing long slow deep breath to the bottom of the diaphragm it takes a while to get there and then you keep breathing sideways people are amazed oh sideways so deep and then sideways and then you keep breathing to the tips of your lung under the collarbone then you let go and you do this at your own pace a couple of times three five times and this helps you well it gives you more oxygen and the breathing brings you in the here now and into the body and then you connect to the heart space and if it's not already done you sink your consciousness to your heart space expand it in your heart space feel your body your field and then you connect to soul and bring into your body into your heart space the highest version of your soul your body can hold today because otherwise the body might be overwhelmed so you connect this feel it expand soul in your body in your field feel it the difference and if you're working on something you always already can bring in your guides for this specific topic but before you should connect to earth you sink your consciousness to the center of the earth the heart of the earth connect with earth mother feel her loving presence feel how you are part of the earth and bring the consciousness of earth into your heart space so there is your consciousness your soul your guides the earth and you go from there and with this you're centered you are grounded and being centered and grounded you have boundaries that hold and if you have boundaries there is no fear no nothing you just you are you are really in your power in your authentic power so it doesn't take long and I do it again and again and I highly recommend it it is too simple for some people like there's beautiful breathing work breath work but if you are in a chilling situation you you forget how to do all this wonderful breathing just this deep breathing because this kind of breathing really disrupts patterning we're not used to it really deep and then sideways and then upways and then here I am here you are thank you for that Anna this is dare to dream what are you next dare to dream what are your future dreams or quantum desires is really to bring all in of this into a book I was told by my guides and I know that you are a beautiful coach on this as well and I already connected with you so yes this needs to be brought to a larger audience that is my next big dream and you'll be pleased to know synchronicity that we meet twice a month on zoom and we started 11 a.m. Pacific time which for you for where you are is actually a decent time so yeah I highly appreciate this I know you do and thank you so much for bringing this information to the show today I'm so grateful you're in my life and doing the work you are to help so many people on the planet it's been a pleasure Anna pleasure to be with you and share this with all the people nice if you want to connect more deeply and learn more or get that free consult with Anna Leverence go to quantumwayofbeing.com slash brilliance I end today's show with a quote from Kimberley and Foster Gamble's thrive to documentary we don't always get in life what we dream about but we do get what we tolerate you see if everyone got what they dream about then everyone's dreams would instantly be here right now but we do receive our minimum standard that's a guarantee so when I'm working with people I'm always asking them what's your dream what's your vision because your current reality is a direct reflection of everything that you are tolerating right now when we look around the world at our current reality what are we tolerating why getting in touch with what's possible and tuning ourselves to a greater resonance has beckoned humanity throughout the ages subscribe to this number one transformation conversation dare to dream with Debbie Daschinger please send this to somebody you know who needs to hear this and leave a comment and share next week on the show I'm featuring the amazing Pamela Passetti she's a healer and a lawyer assisting with the trauma surrounding separation and divorce Pamela shares the hidden love story of divorce including the soul family and soul contract I highly recommend you tune in it's a very we're living in amazing times where people offer things at this level on subjects we never even considered but I've had conversations with Pamela and I can tell you it's going to be information you've never heard before and will really help you if you're separating so my friends remember to dare to dream and remember what our dear Anna Leverin said dreaming often can be a limitation so go way beyond and allow yourself to embrace your brilliance magnificence and authentic power thank you so much for being with us today


Welcome to Dear to Dream. This is Debbie Dashinger, pleasure to be with you today. Today's show features Sheldon Epes, one of the most successful and universally respected leaders in American theater. Sheldon radically changed theater through his leadership, including his insistence on making diversity a priority both on stage and off. I'm very much looking forward to that conversation. This show, Dear to Dream, has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards for a Webby Award. We are currently listed in Welp Magazine as one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to. Listed in Apple Podcasts as a top self-improvement show and recently won the Coalition for Visionary Resources for the Best Podcast and Radio Show. I thank all of you for joining us and staying on this journey. This show is sponsored by Dr. Dane Heer and Access Consciousness. They do beautiful energy work out into the world. If you'd like to become a facilitator or take one of their classes, go to drdaneheer.com or accessconsciousness.com. I'm Debbie Dashinger and I am a media visibility expert. I am a book writing coach and I help you get from the idea of your book to a finished book and published. I also have a company that takes your book to a guaranteed international bestselling status and I do all the heavy lifting. And finally, I show you how to be interviewed on radio and podcasts and get massive results. I've got a gift for you. So if you're ready to become visible and learn some of these aspects, writing books, getting booked on podcasts as a guest, go to debbiedashinger.com. And get your templates and videos and learn how to. It's D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R dot com slash gift. My guest today is Sheldon Eaps, who is one of the most all time influential African American theater leaders, as well as a prolific director of television. He's directed on Broadway, the West End, and is the director of the upcoming BET Plus movie, Christmas Party Crashers. He received the NAACP Community Service Award and the prestigious James Irvine Foundation Leadership Award for his many accomplishments. His new book, A Memoir, is titled My Own Directions, A Black Man's Journey in the American Theater. Mr. Eaps is a longtime member of the executive board of the Society of Directors and Choreographers and served as chair of the SDC Foundation Board of Trustees. He's a two-time recipient of the Theater Communications Group, Pew Charitable Trust National Theater Arts Residency Grant, and currently, he is honored to serve as senior artistic advisor at Ford's Theater in Washington, D.C. And with that, I welcome the amazing Sheldon Eaps to Dear to Dream. It is so great to have you here today. Welcome. Good to be here. Thank you. Thank you for the nice welcome and the great introduction. Yes, it's my pleasure. You know, I majored in theater at USC. No. And I'm sorry we didn't cross paths because that was a momentous for me. But I did major in theater and that was my life, my livelihood for a very long time. And of course, I know who you are. Well, great. We have common ground and that's wonderful. We absolutely do. And I know you're busy. I want to just start by asking, do you have a website? Is there a Sheldon Eaps website out there? You know, I'm so not great at all of those social media things. I probably should spend an hour with you talking about that personally. I am on Instagram under my name Sheldon Eaps. So people can go there. That's fine. But no website. Lots of stuff on Google that people want to know more than they find out today. Okay. And then to that end and to further correct myself and anybody who's interested in going to Instagram, it is Sheldon, which is easy enough and E-P-P-S. So. Yeah. Beautiful. And you know, that is a name I grew up with. I'm a very common name. I'm from New York. I know you're from Teaneck, New Jersey. Yes. And nobody names their children Sheldon anymore. It's a great name. Well, I'll tell you something funny. It's a name that's usually associated with men of the Jewish faith. A lot of people when they just speak to me on the telephone or just see my name, think I'm Jewish. So when I show up face to face, they sort of look past me. That's hilarious.  My mother's got a sign or a store or something. So it's not a family name. It's just a name that she saw somewhere and she liked very much. So I think it's a great name. It is a great name. Yeah. Greatly underused, but I'm glad you have it. And you have directed many major, major productions on and off Broadway, London, theaters across America, and you've had a very active television career. And now, as we said, your artistic director at Ford's Theatre in Washington.  I would say that it's been great to have in my in my dotage and my old age here, just a terrific last year, working on some some great theater projects, continuing to work on television. And then having the time to write and edit and then get get this book published, you know, which really tells the story of my life and all the things that led me to being artistic director at Pasadena Playhouse in my 20 years at that theater. And to have all of that in the in the space of the year has really been pretty, pretty phenomenal and kind of overwhelming. It didn't really hit me until towards the end of the year. You know, when you get to New Year's Eve and you start to think about, okay, what did I do this year? When I realized all the things that had been accomplished, I was pretty impressed with myself, I guess. Pretty amazing. Did you ever feel like somebody was helping you from the other side that you had angels that the universe in general was for you? Yeah, actually, I do feel that I wouldn't say that my my life has been a bit of roses or that it's all been easy. There's been challenges. There's been obstacles. There's been things to overcome. But I have really been blessed and fortunate and had the rare opportunity to do almost all of the things, maybe all of the things that I ever dreamed of doing. So I don't think you accomplished that by yourself. You need some some help from the universe or the spirits or, you know, spiritual fathers and mothers and all of that. Yes. What are the qualities, Sheldon, that you think makes a good theater director? Number one is patience, not to rush the process, not to try to produce results. I think you have to be a very, very good listener. One of the things that I think I've learned is that listening in the rehearsal process is as important as talking. You have to be a bit of a psychologist, a bit of a therapist. Actors like people are all different. There are certain things that help some people and other things that help other people. So as in any good relationship, you really have to be sensitive to who the person is and what their needs are and what is helpful to them and work from there. And then good taste, I think. You've got to have good taste. And you have to want to be a storyteller also. You know, you have to love storytelling. Yes, absolutely. What did you mean more specifically by good taste? I often think that you see productions, you see movies or stage shows or whatever where everything is just thrown in together. It's every idea that everybody has. And it's a little like the great fashion critic Deanna Vreeland said about dressing, or maybe it was Coco Chanel, I'm not sure. But one of them said, you know, when you get, when women get dressed in the morning, they should put on every idea they have, and then they should take two or three things away, and then they'll be perfect. So you have to have the taste to know that just because just because an idea is there, you shouldn't try to use every idea in every production. You need the taste to say this is appropriate for this production and the style of this show and for this story, but not for every show and not not every story. Some things need other simplicity, some things need more complications. Amazing. So there's a lot of discernment in there. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's that would be another another way of saying good taste is discernment, you know, selectivity, maybe. And your life, as you said, in the entertainment business, there were highs, there were lows. Can you talk about some of that, some of the low times that you experienced and how you got through them? Yeah, again, I don't think it's distinct to me as an artist. I think anybody's life as an artist in America is a roller coaster ride, you're never going to be working all the time. It's not a clear trajectory from beginning to to heights, you know, it's ups and downs, peaks and valleys all the time. But I think there's more challenges that have been involved that are involved for artists of color, because on on top of the normal challenges of a life in the arts. You also have those restrictions that are placed on you not by yourself, but by our society. You know, that says, you can do this, you can't do this, this is available to you, this is not available to you. You can be a follower, but not a leader, all of those things. So we're talking about dreaming, daring to dream. I still believe that you should dare to dream, absolutely. But you know, there are forces out there that want to inhibit those dreams and tell you not to have those dreams or kill those dreams. So, you know, I've certainly experienced that in my life and had times when I don't think my dreams were ever diminished, but they've been challenged. I'll put it that way. Was it mostly early on in your career that you experienced that or has it been pocketed throughout? I would say throughout, I would say throughout, certainly early on, early on, you know, you put into as a as a black theater artist, you're put into what I call the black box. And you're told, OK, here's the list of 25 plays that you can direct. Don't think about directing anything else. You know, and usually they're they're placed by black writers, which is great. And certainly I admire many black playwrights. But my admiration for black playwrights doesn't mean that that's all I want to do. You know, I also want to do Shakespeare. I want to do Noel Coward. I want to do Tom Stoppard. You know, I want to have the freedom and the artistic range that any white director would have any director who is not a person of color. So certainly I had that challenge early on in my career and had to make it clear to people in all kinds of ways that I wanted to go beyond the black box. But later as the leader of a major American theater, there were people who felt I had no right to the job. I shouldn't be there. How did I get the job? You know, was this an accident? How long is it going to be before you fail in the job? And that was that was certainly true at the beginning of my time at Pasadena Playhouse. But I can't say that those feelings from some, not from everybody, but from some didn't follow me all the way through my 20 years as the artistic leader of the theater. So yeah. And then, you know, even after that, I think that there are opportunities that come to. That come to white folks that don't come to people of color unless you really fight for them. Is there anything to date that you have not yet done that you really would love to sink your teeth into you would love to be at the helm of and direct. You know, it's a great question. I actually, after all the theater I've done and after all of the episodic television that I've done, I've never done a movie. I've never done a full length movie. And I did get to do a very sweet, charming holiday film that you mentioned Christmas Party Crashers. That was on BET. And it was a great experience, a lot of fun. But that that that left me with a bit of a hunger to do a real feature film. You know, a real big movie. And there's there's one that may happen. I have a script now that may occur. Okay, great. Well, this is your year. I see that for you. Thank you.  Very interesting term. I hadn't heard that before, but I completely understand what you're saying. And so that that was some of your personal experiences in a more global sense. What have you seen. And has it gotten any better? Are there still a lot of areas that where there is a black box, whether it's TV film or theater that could use improvement. Well, let me first talk about the fact that things have definitely improved. Let me say that there is a lot to celebrate. There was a time early on in my tenure as leader of artistic playhouse when I was one of the only and for certain years, the only black person who was the leader of a major theater. That's not true anymore. There are many, many men and women of color who are artistic leaders, executive leaders. We're seeing many more faces of color on screen in movies and television and behind the scenes as directors and writers and all of that. So there's no doubt that that things have gotten considerably better. But we don't want better to mean that everything is perfect. You don't want better to mean that there are still challenges there. And we don't want better to mean that there's nothing more to be accomplished because it's a constant constant battle, I think. And even with those, you know, since 2020, the Black Lives Matter movement, we've seen a lot of hiring of people in executive positions. My fear is that it's a moment and not a movement, that it was a knee jerk reaction. I hope that's not true. I hope I'm wrong about that. But I do have sort of this nagging fear in the back of my head that, oh, maybe we'll do this for a while. And then we can say we did it and then we can move on. So I think we've got to be on our guard against that as well. Absolutely. And so what I hear you saying is, yes, things have indeed gotten better, but better is not done. Yeah, right, right. And you can't judge, you can't judge success by things being better. You know, if something was really, really bad, and it's better, it still could be not as bad, but bad, you know, and certainly doesn't mean that things have been healed. That's the other thing, you know, racism is an illness. And what do you do when you have an illness? You take medicine. You don't take medicine for as long as you want to take it. You take it until the illness goes away. And that illness has still, as demonstrated right now by so many things we hear in the news, the illness of racism has not gone away in our country. Yes, agreed 100% and it's sickening. Yeah. I would love to give you this platform to speak very freely. What specifically do you see as infractions and or what specifically Sheldon do you want to be different? Where do you want to see the difference made? You know what, I would like to not have to talk about this. That really would be the ultimate goal and the ultimate measure of our success. When the doors were all open, when there were no impediments, so that we didn't have to, so that diversity was a fact and not an effort. So that we weren't fighting for these same things that we've been fighting for so long, they would just be the reality of our existence. And yes, it's gratifying to have been one of the first, one of the only, one of the few in the event anymore. If there were so many people of color being successful and in leadership positions that it wasn't an event for somebody to be the first. You know, when there were no more first would be a very nice thing.  Number one, is that true? But should we, should we be well beyond that by now? You know, so that's, if I'm really being a dreamer, that's what I dream of. Beautiful. You know, when we're not even having to, we don't need to have these discussions anymore, but right now we do need to have. Yeah, we're shining a light on something really important. And I know that two decades at Pasadena Playhouse, you as a leader, it was a lot of strategy to radically change its diversity. Can you talk about what your strategy was and maybe some ways that you employed that? Yeah, I can. When I, I'll tell you a story first. When I arrived at Pasadena Playhouse, it was acknowledged that I was the first black person to lead a major American theater on the West Coast, really. And there was a lot of applause for that, a lot of celebration, which was great. But then there was a very sort of left wing newspaper that did an article saying that it was a, it was a fluke or a mistake or somebody was just asleep at the wheel to let this black guy come in and be head of Pasadena Playhouse, which is in a conservative community and was really quite blatantly a white theater company, no doubt about it. And accompanying that article was a little line drawing of me being boiled in a pot of oil with rich Pasadena socialites dancing around the cauldron. And the reaction you're having right now is the same reaction that a lot of people have. So that, that's where I started. That was within my first couple of weeks at Pasadena Playhouse. And the article was, the article was predicting, you know, Pasadena is never going to stand for this. They're going to run him out of town on a rail or something. So, you know, that's where I started. I also started by sitting in Pasadena Playhouse is a beautiful courtyard outside the theater, which is kind of like the lobby because of the great Southern California weather. And I used to sit out there and so frequently I would be the only person under 60 and the only person of any color going into the theater, both of which were dangerous things, you know, it meant that the audience would be leaving us shortly if we didn't develop younger audiences. And in no way did that reflect the diversity of Pasadena, certainly not the diversity of the city of LA and not the diversity of our country. So I did determine that had to change. The first way to go about it was through the programming through the selection of material to make sure that there were other than white people on the stage and involved in the work. But then, you know, you also have to make sure that you get the message out there to new audiences that you're doing the play and that there really is a genuine invitation to them to come and share the experience. If you've been locked out of a place, a home, a restaurant, a bar, whatever it is, a theater, if you've been locked out for years or decades, somebody's got to make it very clear to you that things have changed. And that's a marketing effort. That's not really related to the play itself or to the craft or the artistry. That's marketing. And it's also, you know, going out to the community, not waiting for the community to come to you, but going out to the community and saying, listen, I am here now, which is a big step. And I really want you to come into my home. I really want you to come and be a part of what I'm doing. What was the greatest reference point? What was the biggest marker of all of what you did around that that was really well received and created the most diversity and maybe change? I think it was a particular production I did. I threw a lot of good luck and good fortune. I was able to attract Lawrence Fishburne and Angela Bassett to star in a production of Fences that I did, the great August Wilson play. And that great combination of a wonderful play with not just well known but spectacularly good actors in a play where everything really came together completely drew in a new audience. An audience of passenger playhouse had not seen maybe in decades full houses. I think we sold out, you know, within a week of announcing who was in it. And that celebration of everything coming together artistically as well as in terms of diversity was a great moment for me personally, but also for the theater and really put us in the map in a great way. Well, it's an amazing play. Amazing playwright and you got amazing actors. What attracted them? Was it you, Sheldon Epps, or was it me? I think it was the play first and foremost, you know, August Wilson so greatly admired and deservedly so. It was that particular play, which many people think is his best play. The fact that that play had such a great role for Lawrence Fishburne and such a great role for Angela Bassett, then attracted other well known actors to fill out the company. So it was the play. And I do believe that that people understood what I was trying to accomplish at the theater. You know, all of those people were aware of passenger playhouse but had probably they certainly never worked there. They may not even have been there in many years, but they understood that I was trying to break down the walls of the theater, so to speak, and give this theater to each and every community in Los Angeles, not just the community that had been supporting it over the last 20 years. So they were supporting my mission, you know? They were supporting the play. And it's a whole mission, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's a mission that they believed in and that they wanted to help them. Amazing. Beautiful. I actually saw the playbill for that. Oh, did you? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's up. Yeah. No, I sometimes have to, there are a couple of situations like that. Angela and Lawrence together is one of them, but I did another play with Felicia Rashad and Diane Carroll in the same play. Wow. I sometimes have to look at pictures of whatever and say, wow, that really did happen. Happen. Those people were really in that play together. That's kind of amazing. That's beautiful. Yeah, I know the playbill is sort of orange with their faces on it. Yes, yes, you're absolutely right. Yes, beautiful picture of that. Yeah. Today you are in Washington. And yeah, can you talk about what you're doing there? Are you allowed to talk about what you're doing there? Yes, I can. I can. I'm working on a new musical called Shout Sister Shout, which opens the middle of next month, middle of March. And it's about Rosetta Tharp. Do you know who Rosetta Tharp is? I do not. Okay. Well, that's one of the reasons we're doing the show because everybody should know who Rosetta Tharp is. Rosetta Tharp was a great gospel singer. Beautiful. She was also a great, great guitar player. That combination was very unusual for a woman and very unusual for a black woman. And over the course of her career, she was the one who sort of combined gospel music with R&B and was a precursor to great singers like Aretha Franklin and Brooke Benton and, you know, so many others. Sam Cooke, you know, so many others who did the same thing. But Rosetta was the pioneer of that, of sort of combining the sound of gospel with the sound of popular music. And along with that was playing, not only singing these great songs, but was playing these great guitar licks that everybody started to steal from her. You know, and everybody from VB King to the Rolling Stones gives a lot of credit to Rosetta Tharp as a guitar player as well as as a singer. So it's her life story told through her great, great music and wonderful songs that she made so famous. Are you casting now or have you completed casting? No, we're in rehearsal now. We're in the middle of the rehearsal period and have about another week or so of rehearsal in the rehearsal room and then we'll move into the theater shortly. And it's at Ford's Theatre in Washington. Great. So if you want to fly there or if you live there, that sounds like the show to go see. That sounds amazing. How was the casting because, okay, you know, singer, you could do that, you could find somebody amazing. But the guitar playing at the level you're talking about and a singer, how was that going through the casting process? It was, it was quite, quite a hunt. Quite a hunt because, you know, she's, I would say that the character is on for probably 75% of the show offstage very little. She's either acting, singing or playing the guitar or all three at the same time. So you can imagine it's a hugely demanding role and takes skill in all of those areas equally. You know, it's not that she, she can be a good guitar player and then kind of slough through the singing and the acting. You know, it's all got to be of a certain level. Exciting stuff. Yeah. Who has been your favorite actor or actress? What kind of story can you tell about something really momentous that you got to experience? Well, we talked about Lawrence and Angela. That was a great experience. Felicia Rashad was, was wonderful to work with.  Diane Carroll was, was great to work with. But I'll tell you the funny thing about Diane Carroll is it actually was a little hard to rehearse with her because she was so charming and so entertaining. And she had so many great stories to tell and was very open about telling them, whether they were about her career or her love life or, you know, people she knew. So I, it was actually, I had to pinch myself sometimes and remind myself that I was the director because I was such a good audience for her. She was great to work with. Della Reese was another person who was wonderful to work with. And I worked with her a couple of times and she taught me a lot. She actually taught me a lot about music and theater, but, but a great deal about life. She was a great believer. You'll appreciate this in creative visualization of seeing very, very, very clearly what it is you want to happen and having a real clear picture of it. And if you had a clear enough picture of it, you would get it. She, she told me years before it happened that she wanted to be the star or the secondary star of a major television program on one of the big networks. And this was at a time when she wasn't working a lot, but she said, Sheldon, this is what's going to happen. We're going to be the star of a major television series on one of the big networks. And I said, Oh, okay, Della. Well, two years later, she was the star of Touch By An Angel, which was one of the highest rated television programs on CBS. I watched it. So, yeah, we all did. So that was a great lesson. And, you know, really putting out into the universe exactly what it is you want, dare to dream. Exactly. Incredible, incredible that she would impart that. I can imagine her having that kind of spirit.  Yes, she was, she was. And then, of course, so gifted as a singer and musician, as an actress. So, you know, I'm always grateful to her for all of the things she taught me in many, many ways. You yourself performed. Is that correct? You originally were. A long time ago. Yes, I trained as an actor originally and went to Carnegie Mellon University, which was a four year training program. So, my degree was in acting and then I acted for about about five or six years after I graduated. And then I shifted lanes into directing. What caused the shift? It was really somebody else's suggestion. A very talented director named Norman Renee went to college with went to school with and then worked with five or six years after we graduated. And he said, you know, when I direct you and we disagree about something, I usually think that you are right. I may not admit it at the time, but I usually think that you're right. I come back round to your point of view two or three days later and claim that I thought of it, which was incredibly generous of him to say.  And I did and loved it and then started working very, very quickly as a director and didn't have to audition anymore, but you'll appreciate. I was happy not to have to do that, not to have to be on that audition trail. So, it just seemed like the natural shift of lanes, as I said, to, to the career that I was meant to be in. I've always really admired directors because in my estimation when I was in the acting world. To me, the director had a vision that saw everything was the full matrix all the moving pieces included what it looked like sounded like where people moved, what intentions were connections relationships and the whole arc of the story. And I do not feel I have that skill at all I was, you know, actor. No, I think you're right. I think what you're trying to do when you do a production, certainly in the theater, but also film, television, you're trying to create a world, you know, probably a world that's different than most of us are in. You know, if it's a play like Hamlet or the Cruise of the Bull or Dream Girls, you're creating a world that is different than the world that the audience lives in at the moment. And all of those elements that you talked about that certainly the performance of the actors, but also the design work set design costume design sound design, all of those things go into creating the world. Yeah, it's impressive. Really is. And with your decades of success in entertainment. What have you learned as sage wisdom about the craft of theater or any entertainment modality overall. Well, I think a few things. Patience again. The great, great actor Andre De Shields once said that the quickest way to get where you want to be is to go slowly, which I think is a great way to think about things. Perfection is probably not an ideal goal. Process is a much better goal than perfection. I think sometimes by trying to force things to be perfect rather than allowing them to have a process. You can get yourself in trouble. And then leave yourself open to discovery. I think when I was a younger director I used to enter the room thinking, I have to have it all figured out I have to know all the answers I have to have my vision has to be exact of how I everything how I want everything to go. And I've learned that that's not true, you know, sometimes I think the less you know, entering the room and the more you learn through the process and with the people that you're doing the play with the better. I said once some people like to cut the suit and then make the actors wear it, whether it looks good on them or not. The better way is to get in the room with the actor find out who the actor is, and then cut the suit, knowing what color looks good on them, what fabric looks good on them what works well on their body. Well with their aura with who they are. So leave yourself open to discover things in the process. How interesting it sounds like a really organic experience working with you. And does that mean then that the first thing you start out with is a table read or how what is your process when you work with people. No that's exactly right. I do a table read and then I stay at the table probably longer than most other people do. You know, there's some people may not even do a table read but if they do a table read the next thing they do is they start blocking the play. I don't do that. I sit around the table, talk about the play, talk about people's lives, talk about where their lives intersect with the play, who they are, what they want, you know, what's the arc of the play, what's the rhythm of the play. And to the truth, I think if you do that and the actors have a clear idea of what they want to do and what they want in a play, then the blocking becomes much, much more easy and much more organic than my saying, okay, cross over here, move over there, move over there. Because it's coming from them. It's coming from what they have learned during that table, table work process. What makes you just nuts still about the theater? In a good way nuts like, and I'm sure I could fill in lots of that too, I grew up in New York, one of the things we did was always go into the city, New York City to see the theater. I mean this is a part of my heritage. So yeah, the things you love, but the things that is like, in general, gosh, they could really improve this. Huh, that's a good question. Well, the good thing is that theater, even after all of this time is still magical, you know, and you still have moments where everything comes together perfectly and, you know, it's just like being lifted into heaven because everything is so right. I guess sloppiness on stage, you know, because in New York in particular runs can be long, and you can see plays after people have been doing them for a year, two years, whatever. And you kind of know that the performance you're seeing probably has no relationship to what opened because people have gotten bored, they've gotten tired, they may even be misbehaving. So watching that drives me a little bit crazy. As to working in the theater, the thing that drives me nuts is there's never enough money. Budgets are always lower than they should be. Which on one side is great because you have to use your imagination, but now and then it would be nice to have all the money in the world to do something in the theater. Speaking of money, I know theater really took a hit during COVID.  How are we doing now post-COVID? I think we're still recovering. I know that theaters I'm working in or when I talk to colleagues at theaters that box office sales are not nearly what they were. They are getting better, but it's still a tough road right now. A lot of people have just fallen out of the habit that you talked about where people used to get on the bus and go into New York City once a week, once a month. They just fell out of the habit of doing that. And also frankly, I think that ticket prices are a real issue. It's really inhibiting to buy a theater ticket now. And I don't know what can be done about that, but something's got to be done about that because I think it really is keeping people from going. Even those people who want to go have a hard time going because prices are so high. Yeah, I just wonder how much could be subsidized. And I wonder, do grants play, I would imagine that theaters can apply for grants from state or federal? Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. No, that pays a huge amount. We just got a little increase with the national endowment for the arts, tiny bit if you compare it to the national budget. But thank God that means that there's a little more money to spread around to arts organizations. But we're close to what they do in Europe. You know, in Europe where things are so hugely subsidized, you know, wouldn't it be great if we have those kind of subsidies in American theater? Absolutely, it would. It makes way more sense where arts are benevolent. Yes. And, you know, in this country, the military is where all the money goes. And that being said, that was reversed. What about arts in school right now? Do you ever play around in that area at all? Are you still going to universities and so forth? Yeah, I do. I'm not on a faculty anywhere, but I do guest lecture, master classes, things like that. But if you're talking about arts in public schools, that's another woeful area, because as budgets get cut, that tends to be the first things to go, you know. And in a way, you know, it used to be that there was a lot of money around to take kids in school to see things, you know, to go to see plays, to go to see ballet and music events. That's kind of all disappeared. And now it falls on the arts institutions to try to make student tickets available, which is good. And a lot of theaters and performing arts organizations do that. But that then becomes a drain on their budget. So, you know, it's tough. But I think it's essential that people are like you and me and they get in the habit of going to see things early in their life. Yeah. So we mentioned COVID and I want to relate this to your book, My Own Directions. Timing wise, was it the pandemic that caused you to write the memoir? What elements went into committing because I know, as a book writing coach, I know what it takes to write a book.  You gave birth to a baby there. No, you're absolutely right. I first started thinking about it in 2017 when I stepped down from my position at Pasadena Playhouse. And actually it was other people who made me think about it. People kept saying, oh, you should write a book. You should tell your story. Why don't you write a book? So I started thinking about it and thought about it a lot and thought about how it might be put together and all of that. But I was also working, you know, I was also directing television and going around the country and directing at theaters. And then this little thing called the pandemic hit and we were all isolated at home. And both I told myself and my wife told me, okay, now is the time for you to sit down and write that book. You have absolutely no excuse in terms of schedule for not writing it. And she was right. And I made it my job during the pandemic over the many, many months of the pandemic to really force myself to write for a certain number of hours every day. Did you read chapters to her? No. Did the whole draft? I did. I did. She didn't read it until at least the second draft, which she gave me hell for it because I didn't let her read it. But I wanted to get closer to what was in my head. Once it was pretty close to what was in my head and what I wanted to achieve, she was the first one to read it. And what was your method for writing? Did you architecturally lay out the book and then know where you were headed? Did you just let it pour out of you? What was, how did this manifest? I went pretty much chronologically, though it starts with, it actually does start with my arriving at Pasadena Playhouse and the story I told you about the article and the terrible drawing. And the book begins with the question, how did I get here? How did this kid from Compton, this little black kid from Compton, how did he arrive at Pasadena Playhouse as the leader of the theater? How did that occur? You know, when those kind of opportunities did not come to so many others of any color, but certainly so many people of a color. How did that, how did it happen? And then I jumped back to birth, really, and all of the things, all of the steps. Living in California, moving to New Jersey, discovering Broadway theater, starting to do plays, going to college to study acting. Many of the things we've talked about today, all of those things that eventually led me to Pasadena Playhouse. Then I get back to where we started with, okay, I'm here. And then the rest of the book is about my 20 years as artistic director. Incredible. Today, looking at diversity, looking at leadership, looking at racial parity, on and offstage, how can it be healed? What ideas, suggestions, what wisdom do you know that a healing would occur? Well, the first thing is something I said before, let's not assume that it has been healed. Let's not assume that with all the progress that we've made, that there is no more progress to be made. Let's keep our eyes on the prize that I talked about before of it being so free flowing that we don't have to talk about it anymore. So awareness is the first thing. Conversations like we've had today, open, honest, depersonalized conversations that are about healing rather than blame, I think are really important. And then taking talk into action. We can talk about things for days and days. And that's useful. But unless we actually do things, unless we actually make things change, make things happen through action, it's always going to be talk and not forward movement. So those are the things I would suggest. And belief, belief that it can, belief that things can be different. That's a big one. Yeah, to drink that medicine, you talked about to cure the illness of racism. Yes, you have to believe that you can be healed. You know, they say that about medicine, medicine, medicine's only half the battle, whatever that prescription is, you could, you can take it, but you've also got to believe that it's going to do you some good. If I could give you whatever you wanted a wand and say you could do any production, and you could do it any way you want with anybody you want, you can fill in the particulars. If you have them, or just an idea of what that creation would look like. Sheldon, what would you do. Well, first of all, I will say I've been so lucky to have had the chance to do most of those dream projects, you know, directors are supposed to keep that wish list of plays or musicals that they want to do. And I've really gone through my wish list and done many of them. So at this point, I would say I would like to find a story about some unsung hero, some, some small person, small meaning, not famous, who did some remarkable thing, not necessarily the changed history but change the way we live together, change our relationship to each other, get a great playwright to write that story, and then find wonderful, wonderful, brilliant actors to tell that story to a willing and open audience would be a great thing to accomplish. Beautiful. So your book is on Amazon, and yes, yes. So folks want to get the book. It'll be in the show notes. And so you can go there. And what about on a daily basis, Sheldon, is there something you do is there a practice you have a ritual that keeps you grounded that keeps you centered functioning well. What do you do. I was just talking about this with somebody at rehearsal today. The most grounding thing that I do and it's not revolutionary. It's not brilliant or anything like that. It's quite simple. I, when I wake up in the morning, I try to give myself at least 10 to 15 minutes of quiet time before I look at any device. Before I run to my phone or my tablet or my computer, just 10 to 15 minutes of time just to be at peace and to express gratitude for the fact that I woke up and it is a new day and that everything is ahead of me. Lovely. This is a dream, Sheldon Epps. What are you next year to dream? What are your future dreams and visions and goals? Well, we've talked about some of them. I'm looking forward to an opportunity to to work more in film. I keep working more in theater and telling great stories, as I said, and I'd like to, this is a really honest thing for me to tell you, but I will tell you. I think there's something about artists that always pushes us to want to prove ourselves more, prove I can do the next thing or the next thing or the next thing. I'd like to relax a little bit more, Debbie, in a sense of achievement about what I've done, and I have been fortunate to do so much to to rely on that and do things, not because I'm trying to prove anything, but because I want to because I have a burning passion and desire to do them. Is there anything here at the end you'd like to say to the listeners and the viewers? Be blessed to be lucky enough to do what I have done, which is follow my own directions as my book is titled, but find your directions, find those dreams, those goals, those ambitions.  Thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been a real treasure. Oh, thank you. It's been great to talk with you. Thank you. And today's show with this quote from Willem Dafoe, great theater is about challenging how we think and encouraging us to fantasize about a world we aspire to. Subscribe to this number one transformation conversation Dear to Dream with Debbie Daschinger, please like comment I read all of what you write and I appreciate it so much send it to somebody you know who will enjoy the show. This week on the show I'm featuring the amazing Anna Leverance from Germany speaking about the quantum way of being co creating the new earth and manifesting quantum miracles. Thank you so much for joining us today on Dear to Dream. And remember to go out there and be the change you heard about today on the show be the healing and the change, because you are that important.


Joe Ciccio, it sounds like Canada is attacking podcasters too, yeah, on every level. Canada is attacking natural health products. That includes toothpaste, shampoo, skin creams, everything. They're trying to control everything. Canada attacked my local organic ice cream company that produces both dairy-free and dairy ice cream that we buy ice cream from. You want to see it? We have some in the freezer. They talk them, so we support them more with more ice cream. Okay, check it out, check it out. Real French, hello Ciccio, on rumble. Nice to see you on my birthday. Birthday salutations. Happy, happy, happy birthday, real French. Astro says, hello. Astro, salutations, hope you're doing well. Happy birthday, French, all the gods says. You want to see the ice cream from the organic company? Here, watch this, check this out. I'll be right back. This is organic ice cream company in my area, right? VCG, I can't remember what this was, right? My partner took a little chunk out of it. Last night, we ate a pumpkin one. So good, so good, so good. And this one is plain Jane. This is vanilla, and there were cookie creams. Here, watch this. I'm going to take a little bite of one of them, just because we brought it out. Okay, let me put this. I'm really tied up here right now, so check this out. Let me put it on my glasses, and then I've got to put these back, right? Oh yeah, look at this. Oh, okay, check this out. This one is chocolate, right? And it's got a cookie, cookie. I'm going to eat this. Okay, I got to eat it while I brought it. Check this out. It's got a cookie, cookie, like a, what do you call it, sandwich thingamajigie, and chocolate ice cream. So good.  Can I show you the pumpkin? But anyway, I'll just, maybe one day we'll do an ice cream, I'm getting an image. Maybe we'll do an ice cream live stream, because I want to really support this company. But Canada has passed laws saying that ice cream companies, organic ones, whatever ice cream companies, they have to buy their products from the large conglomerate dairy company, right? And that stuff is not grass fed, that stuff is not organic, it comes in plastic bags, these guys are sourcing their products from local farms, from local companies and stuff like this. So Canada is attacking Canadian citizens on every front, on every front. Okay, technocrats.   We're going to eat our ice cream. So good. It's really good. If you're an ice cream lover, oh yeah, by the way, the company, Jane the Hitchhiker watching from Abbas, we're visiting Abbas, we're visiting right now. The company is in Victoria. It's called Cold Comfort. Cold Comfort. Okay, if you're in the BC area, highly recommend Cold Comfort. And they're in Victoria, BC, some of the best ice cream you've ever eaten in your life. They got dairy and non-dairy, they got vegan and non-vegan. Okay, all of it sourced organically, all of it amazing. And they do seasonal stuff that like the like the pumpkin is only available during the fall, right? When pumpkin is fresh and organic. Cold Comfort. Yeah, okay. I don't know. Take these ones back to the freezer. I'll be right back.


We got Dingo right here, oh no, oh my god, they're chasing us! Okay, go, go, go, no, they're right behind us! We made it, that was very close. Oh gosh, no, please no! Somebody help me, please! It's locked! Dude, what the heck, man? Like, why is she chasing me? Yeah, they added like a safe room also, I don't know where it's at, I think it's back here somewhere. Created a door lock, no, no, no, no, no, no! No! No, please! Oh my gosh, she's back! I'm trapped! Oh my god, we're dead! But we're not dead, she's like right on us!  I just found in, but okay, this is so random. Oh my god, no, oh no, we're trapped here, go, go! Okay, we got it, no, no, no, send her out, dinosaur! Do not go that low! There's those loose T-Rex out here, man. I actually wanted to try to find the safe room, oh god, we're trapped in here.  Dude, why is there so many dinosaurs? The gate opened, hurry! Okay, oh, I wonder who opened this, how do you open this? I think there's a way for you to actually open and close it. Oh, here it is. Okay, I'm not sure if that was good or not. What, there's a door back here. Go check it out. Oh, it's a safe zone. Okay, so this is one of the safe zones they added. I believe they added two safe zones to the map. And it actually makes me feel safe with the little elevator music in there. Oh, and here they come. Jeez, dude, I need to go! Run to the rooms! Open the door, open, open! I think if you open the door, they can actually come in here. I'm not too sure. Dude, it's like a mad overload of PNGs over here. Oh gosh, no. No, dude, they closed the door. Open! Dude, these guys are trolling, right? They just want to get you killed. Uh-oh. Are you guys coming here, loser? No, it's not here. Let me find it. Oh gosh. No, Selena! Selena's okay. Where are the elevators? You need to find... Oh, it's this one. You need to find the elevator that says eat and interact. Or else you... Oh, there's an emoji face! We got speed, an emoji. Oh, that's Christian Bale. I forgot where movie it's from. Uh-oh. Run, run, run, run, run. Oh, you can actually travel back. That's pretty cool. I didn't know you can actually go back and forth through the maps. Oh, great, a Boonga is right here to greet us. Hello, Mr. President. What? Oh my God. Oh, no, no, no, no, please. Oh my God, that was too close. Uh-oh. No. No, please. Wait, now we're being chased by a Boonga and Selena. We're Selena, I think her name's Selena. Yeah, it's like Selena Delgado or something like that. You see, you can actually hear the news about broadcasting. Pay attention. Not today. No, what? Oh, let's go, go. Oh man, I got that guy killed. Oh, no, we're trapped. No. Oh, what? I don't understand some of the doors we make. I don't think you can open all the doors. I'm not too sure. Dude, I'm trying to close the doors. You just can't be safe in this map wherever you're at. Oh my God. Wait, did he freeze? Okay, there you go. Bro, I thought we were dead. I know, right? He should have died. Like, how did he die to that? Oh, what the? Bro, what is that? This gave him like poppy playtime vibes. What? Green's right there. Oh my God. It looked like those inflatable things. I forgot the name of them, but can we get past this? Bro, what is he doing? Bro, what the? Oh, he got the DDP. Oh my God. Yo, he's like slamming him on the ground. What a savage. All right, he probably deserved that because he's DDP. Bro, does he hear me? I don't know if I should go through here. Let's go. That is so risky. The only way to survive orange is to hide in the vents. I'm not too sure, man. It's only my third date. What the heck? No! That's hide in the box. Hide in the freaking box, dude.  What the heck? Chased by the freaking dog-licking one. Okay, go, go, go. We're so close. There you go. Oh my God. Okay, so now it's like we're getting chased by a hoogie-woogie in the vents. Left or right? I don't know. Let's go right. Yo, what's up, dude? He's back in my merch. Oh, he has a very handsome fella. Hey, we're in, uh, Green Hill Zone. It appears. Hey, is that Tails? Oh my God. Oh my God, what happened to Tails? All right, so let's go see what's up with Sonic over here.  What the heck? Okay, well, I guess we got to go fast and race Sonic then. Can we go down here? Okay, here goes nothing. Dude, what the heck?  It's like just dragging us all down here. And here goes nothing. Okay, what? It feels like we have a pier somewhere. Where the heck are we at? We're like in some sort of car or something. What? Okay, that is weird. All right, let's keep on moving the crusty crab. Look at these hand reaching out of the corruption. It's like they're trying to escape, but it's too late. They're already trapped in there. Oh. Good, my boy. Dude, he just got smacked by those hands. And we'll keep going down the road. Dude, what's up with everybody falling over? All right, what is that? You won't survive the glitch. What? Well, watch me survive it. I will survive. I will survive. Wait, is that cur- Ow. Dude, something just hit us. Is that the house from Courage? That's gotta be Courage's house. Can't go inside of the house. Come on, man. Return the slab, dude. Return the slab. I can totally relate to that, my man. Okay, there's one of the traps. Not following the spikes, my man. My leg. Wait, is that the chocolate guy? It is the chocolate guy. Okay, let's keep going. Oh, and I died. Hey, that's not funny, man. He's laughing at me because I died. But it's totally messed up. Okay, oh, what? Oh, look, the mystery machine is over there. Let's go check. Oh, you can't walk up to it.   But is this over here? Okay, watch out, the giant Crayolas. Bro, I told you to watch with crayons, bro. People don't listen around here. Yeah, we haven't found any other secrets. Come inside. Play. Come play inside. All right, dude, whatever. Thanks for the invitation, man. Okay, now what? Guess we keep going here? Follow the moving wall. Because it knows the way, apparently.  I don't know, but he didn't. Come on, boys. Just follow me. Okay, now, oh, what? Okay, teleport. Okay, we're out of that place. Wait, oh, look at Pippi. Dave Bun Bun. Okay, Pippi, I will try my best to save Bun Bun. Did that spell hug? He died. Oh, look, find Double D, dude. My man's is corrupted.  Get nice. Find the secrets. You see? She's telling us, like, find the secrets, bro. My God, okay, watch out with the pencils. Oh, it's to the bob. Behind me, no way. Behind me, no way. I know there's a secret hidden passage somewhere. Maybe the lockers. Oh, wait, what about this one? What? I knew it. Okay, we're actually inside of a locker from what it seems like. Okay, jump. Jump. Okay, nice. Oh, what? What was that all about? Okay, let's try it over time. Let's go on the side. And... Hey, guess that was it? Bro, what the heck was that, man? Whatever, let's keep going. Oh, what?  Okay, I'll try my best not to die. I will try my best. But I'm trying to figure out the rest. And we are corrupted. Oh, my God, what the heck? When did we become corrupted? I have no idea. Oh, the fairly odd parents. What did it say? That's something. Why did the letters disappear? Why did I say die there, bro? What the... Like, bro, it's a kid game, bro. Please help. This me and Cosmo are in trouble. Okay, her name is Wanda from what I remember. Oh! Woo, you boy. Oh, dang, bro. Timmy and Cosmo are corrupted. What the heck? Oh, my God. How did I know that? I did it. I just walked through the freaking door, man. Come on, give me a break. Dude, this is pretty cool. Yo, this looks twisted, yo. Oh, I guess that's pretty much it. We got a Timmy Tirmier Nightmare Award. That's pretty sick, man. Ow! Oh, my God, slashed. Okay, hurry, the corruption is coming. Yeah, you can't even touch the crayon on Pibi. Okay, now what? Let's try to find another secret passage. No. Hey, what's going on? I'm like, the corruption is trying to break through. Oh, what? I'm not sure if this is a secret hidden passage, but... Oh, my God, you can see planet Earth. But it's definitely something. Let's go back. Right. Oh, okay, we got to watch out here. Jump. That did not work out. Oh, my God, we're corrupted again. Where the power of Christ compels you. What the? Okay, I'm starting to believe that you can't get past this. Okay, you can't get past it. Oh, that was close. Okay, another secret hidden passage. No. Where do we go in here? Okay, nice. And I assume we jump inside. Trying to find another secret passage. No, I guess no more. We jump inside the computer. Part 2 Network Studios.