nine elders present 10 Marcus is coming whatever and please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance all right we'll move on to public form we have one person for public form John Doulson you want to come up my name is John Doulson I live at 409 New York Avenue moved here 95 and lived in 324 Wisconsin Avenue and like the area so much I was renting at the time so we bought in the Ellis District and we've noticed the problem of animals getting into garbage since the week we moved here and I think it's more prevalent along the lakefront with the seagulls and garbage is strewn about I've shared pictures to Mary Lynn and the mayor and others throughout the years and that you can see it yourself when you drive around one of the problems is that in this area there are a lot of tenants and if the garbage is picked through by animals the next day the renters aren't cleaning up the curb if you own in this area obviously the next day or two after garbage day and if your garbage is picked through you go through and clean up the mess and sometimes it's it's a huge mess raccoons get in there if your shift worker and you're putting your garbage out the day prior you can do it after five o'clock the day prior unfortunately a lot of them don't abide by that and they put it out three or four in the afternoon and add a couple hours but through the night raccoons get it birds get at it cats dogs whatever these are long overdue our neighbor and communities have these garbage canisters if we want tourism to grow in this area obviously with our south pier and the marina we want tourists but if there's garbage always blown around the streets and you're gonna see more of it now all the snow melted and there's gonna there's still garbage in the the grass between the sidewalk and the curb street sweeper can't get up there a lot of people haven't gotten out and started raking their lawns yet but that that bulk of that garbage comes from our lack of canisters on garbage day so that's all I have and I hope you vote to instill these there's gonna be cost with that but we can absorb it either as we absorb it when you redo our sidewalks in front of our homes or curb and gutter build it in our tax bill whatever but it's it's more it's a fee or whatever you term it that I'm in favor of because it's going to make Sheboygan better so thank you for your time thank you are there any other members from the public wishing to speak all right seeing none we'll move on to 2.1 approval from the minutes from January 14 2019 meeting there's been a motion by elder wolf to approve in a second any discussion on the minutes from our last meeting seeing none all those in favor please stay die to approve our minutes anyone opposed chair votes aye all right well we'll jump into items for discussion and we'll turn it over to the gentleman from Public Works well thank you chairman David Bebel director of Public Works with the city of Sheboygan and I have with me this evening Jason Blasio our street superintendent of seats and sanitation superintendent and we're going to give you a presentation of kind of where we've come from in the past with your garbage program some of the challenges that we have and what we're proposing to move forward for the future so with that I'm going to let Jason kind of lead the discussion and we're going to take team it tonight and I think the chairman asked if you know during the presentation if you have a question just raise your hand so then we can answer it during the presentation not that we have to go back after later and backtrack in other words if that's all right thank you good evening again my name is Jason with Streets and Sanitation so we've been cleaning out our we've been cleaning out our offices and I found a brochure that we had from probably the 1950s when we changed to single can for burnable refuels and non-burnable refuels so we've been going through changes in sanitation collection for quite some time so this is just the the latest and the newest so our current trucks are dead to their life and we're going to need to replace these trucks regardless if we move to an automated collection system or if we continue collecting manually manual collection we're one of two people one of two communities that are still collecting recyclables and bagged all the other communities within the state are using a cart to pick up the recycling so we're looking to convert to an automated cart base for the residential curbside collection and most important to me it improves the worker safety we'll talk a little bit about the a lot about the worker safety and the job satisfaction and the convenience for the residents along with the aesthetics so we have a director Bebel we have Don and Melissa and Heather at the front they take the phone calls we averaged in January and February about 500 calls each month with questions on garbage collection myself David girls is the streets and sanitation supervisor he sets the schedule a lot of the calls that come in he gets handled and Bruce Matt Storf is the sanitation lead man he's the one that actually goes out and deals with the deals with problems that arise and deals with the consist constituents with any problems so we collect about 11,000 tons of garbage and about 3,500 tons of recycling yearly so material recovery rate is about 24% so we're diverting 24% from the landfill that's an underperforming number when communities move to cart base they can see a between a 10 and 30% increase in those recyclable numbers this was a picture one of our sanitation workers took we've had a couple people stuck with needles this is just one of the things they come across with unfortunately in the community we're coming across more and more sharps that are not being disposed properly so the work and saw workers compensation claims they lead the lost time backs slip trips falls sprained ankles getting in and out of the trucks and then being exposed to these sharps and communal diseases with the current way that we're collecting garbage so why automated they have some advantages to move to an automated awesome the city of Kenosha are the only two that are bagging our garbage is right now so when we do manually collect we're in and out of the truck we're walking in the snow in the ice we're dealing with the snow piles and we're getting down and picking up the garbage and the recycling as we go so this is just an example I know a lot of people the garbage is there when you put it out in the morning and the garbage is gone when you get home so you might not have a realistic idea of how we are collecting the garbage this guy was a great recycler one bag of garbage six bags of bottles so we're dealing with alleys that aren't plow it's we have trip trips and falls we're getting on and off the back of the truck lots of times the bags are over stuff they break open when we pick them up sometimes the animals get into them as they're alluding so this one right here it was overstuffed he's picking it up now he's picking up the garbage by hand this is how you get stuck with a sharp right now we do have a limit on the number of bags that you put out so as you see there's a lot more garbage than there is recycling when you move to a cart based system you have a limited amount of real estate so it forces you to move into a recycling because you're gonna need to recycle to keep your garbage in your bag space going on to the next one who think we have the idea here so this is Calumet this is another safety hazard or not Calumet for itself it's 14th at this at this point so we're collecting on a busy street I'm waiting for the cars to go by currently our ordinances call for us to shovel out a pile so we don't have to climb this is one of our workers John Burkhart he came today he came to the last meeting also so you see the kind of stuff that we're dealing with climbing up and down the banks and the cars going by so it really does put our employees at risk collecting garbage manually another but they should have been shoveling out all summer or all winter and keeping a spot there could be other areas they can collect in this end but technically we're not supposed to our employees aren't supposed to be climbing up the snow banks what's that drive driveway so the material Wisconsin material recovery facilities are banning bags so I went down to waste management they have our current contract the way the recycling works is they dump it onto a floor and they load it into conveyor belt and everything that comes from the city of Oregon and the city Kenosha has to manually be ripped open a lot of our recyclables are not being recycled because these workers it's going on the conveyor belt really fast they're giving it one rip and they're shaking it out in the conveyor belt and there's a shaft that goes down into a dumpster and they're dumping out the recyclables and they're throwing the bags down if the bags get missed in the spot they get into the different sorting systems and those bags get tangled up and the machine stops and it slows down their production and it's dangerous they have to lock everything out sometimes climb into the machinery to remove the bags so all the material recycling facilities in the state of Wisconsin are they do not want recyclables collected in bags for that reason some articles that I know the New York Times article there was an article in the Sheboygan press waste management starting to start finding and charging more for communities they have a lot of contamination in these bags because it really slows down their process it's really neat going to see it they use fiber optics with the plastic with shooting rays of light and then they'll have clear plastic have a shot of air move it out for multicolored plastic they'll use weight for the cardboard to go up and they'll even using in artificial intelligence where it's scanning missed cans and metal and a suction going down and getting it out of the plastic so it is a pretty neat facility they've invested a lot of money into the recycling and the removing of the paper and plastic so there are advantages to the carts again worker health worker safety cleaner collection increased recycling and one thing that we get a lot of phone calls and complaints from the citizens is the cost of buying the blue bags currently I believe Walmart's the only retailer that's selling the blue bags and they come in a pack of 400 which a lot of people are complaining because they don't need 400 at a time so that is it seems kind of trivial trivial but it is a complaint that we get quite a bit so these are the gentlemen that are out every day picking up the garbage according to the center disease controls picking up garbage is one of the most dangerous municipal jobs and one of the most dangerous jobs in private industry so in 2018 in the first 10 days of there were seven sanitation workers that were killed the city of Racine had a sanitation worker killed in 2017 working in the streets dangerous city Milwaukee just lost the individual doing potholes which you have to be out of the truck to do that job moving to an automated you're eliminating that person from being outside the truck sprains strains overexertion injuries all happen from getting in and off the truck in the awkward positions for bending over and picking up the trash and the garbage and recycling so last year we did have one individual stuck with a needle we had an individual slip off a truck that cost $53,000 in workman's compensation we are lucky on the slips in the ice in the lower back strains but those could be more lots of times there's broken glass and the bags it protrude and when you're picking them up they catch mainly it's the guys shins that get caught in the forearms sometimes so getting cut is also happens quite frequently keeps a cleaner collection the lids keeps the materials contained more room for recyclables it's easier to roll the one bin out than make multiple trips with the bags protects against the birds and the rodents and it improves the look of the neighborhoods so this is current collection so this is 25th Street in between Superior and Colon Memorial Drive I stopped so you look down the road you can see all the garbage piled out and then the seagulls as you notice when they start starts to pull it out the cars pretty much don't even phase the wildlife anymore they're not getting scared so I tried to find some other communities that collect this is an alley collection in city Milwaukee similar to the collection that two individuals were doing in the alley with the snow on the ice so similar overhead wires trees there's all things that we'll have to deal with also on alleys notice the when the arm collects it pulls it back and when it tips it's very low it's it's it doesn't it's not like your front-end system where it's picking up a dumpster and raising it high over it it's nice and tight next to the side of the vehicle it's got a short reach and it dumps it right in so that's one of the advantages again they've designed these vehicles to actually pick up in these tight areas such as alleys for stop compared to the cart versus the guy having to get out and throw it in so the cycle time on the arm is between 15 and 20 seconds as you saw in the video our guys are really efficient but then you come across some really big ones where it's all spread out that may stop them which we would have to do is right now everything is based on tonnage so we'd have to reroute the stops based on the number the number of stops to get it around 900 stops so some of the routes would change on the on the borders to equalize current for like for instance with that is when we have a stop we do it by by resident but that resident will let's say it's a two-family it's all in one pile now you're gonna have multiple carts that one stop so we have to meet balance it out so depending upon if there's a lot of multi-family that it may have some of the routes change in those areas again another street that I thought was representative to city shabuigan this is an older part of wautosa narrow street with the snow as well as snow banks but you so this driver is actually placing the carts back out of the public right away this one he tries to get over onto the sidewalk but he accidentally topples it so this was a garbage and recycling week he's just picking up I believe the yellow lids or I think that's recycling for a while with those so so carts use an automated systems they typically increase recycling according to the recycling partnership of America between 10 and 30 percent from leaving bags and going to a cart based system so we had a hired Fauth analysis to help us with this they came up with a couple different options for us option one is to maintain the current system the 6040 split rear load two-person crew manually loading garbage and recycling would be collected weekly the advantages it's already in place there's no transition to a new system citizens are already familiar with the process it's the easiest option advantages it's a left safe method of collecting solid waste and recyclables most prone collection method to creating litter least appealing aesthetically requires two employees our current program is under performing with the recycling and the recycling bags is an added expense for residents and as I stated earlier the material recycling facilities are banning the bags if we go out to RFP or a bid to collect to tip excuse me to tip there was going to be a surcharge on that those waste is going to charge us more because there's going to be more time involved with them ripping them off but also I found out after the fact that other counties wanted to bid on our recycling last time that waste management won the bid but they did not due to the fact that our garbage is recyclable or our garbage is bagged and those counties that had owned their mercs didn't want to bid on ours because they didn't want to deal with the bags so it's going to limit who bids for our tipping on the recyclables option two would be a city-owned trucks and carts single compartment automated side loading trucks one person fully automated with carts weekly collection for garbage bi-weekly collection for recyclables we'd look to implement sometime in May our June of 2020 advantages again most important to me is the worker health and safety can reduce the workers compensation costs the convenience due to the standardized carts cleaner collection increase in recycling less wildlife interference reduce exposures to communal diseases for our employees and a residential satisfaction this is vantage it is a higher truck capital and maintenance cost the cart capital and maintenance cost of the carts the storage of the carts and then we're gonna have to go through and look at the routing and make sure all the overhead obstacles and trees and alleys and in the narrow residential streets so how would we implement it we'd have four daily garbage routes and two daily recycling routes so this is the question that I get the most so the four garbage trucks will just say route one two and three and four would go out and then on one week routes one and two would get their recycling picked up the next week's route three and four would get the recycling picked up a lot of the municipalities they call it an a week and a b week and you work with your GIS where you type in your address and it tells you what day is your collection and whether you're an a week and a b week and then you go to a map and it shows which weeks they're collected we would need to part purchase seven trucks that would be one automated truck the six would be in daily use daily with a budget cost of around two million dollars thank you chairman are we going to get into how we're going to finance both the garbage trucks and the carts later yeah very good thank you and the carts are going to cost just as much or a little bit more than the actual trucks between 55 and 57 dollars a cart will need about 37,000 carts so we were been demoing and looking at trucks we had a manufacturer come in spend some time with our workers so the seven trucks we're looking at is a new ways the brand name looking to pay for it out of the motor vehicle fund it's part of the strategic plan focus area include the quality of life we feel for public facilities and neighborhood revitalization so I know a lot of you don't have the privilege of being around recycled garbage trucks like I do so we took a video took a walk around it they're only this clean and pretty once they are a little bigger than our current trucks so the manufacturer came all of our employees got to get inside practice with the arm as questions then because I thought people would be interested I put the camera actually on on the cart so I'm watching it on my phone that's why I'm looking at my phone there I'm watching the live feed of the video but the cart goes in to the hopper and then there's a blade that will push push that material into the back so if they're thank you John so John was in the in the sorry John was in the truck with the manufacturers seeing how it works so if there is a large amount of contamination we can note it so that we know that the lead man or I or supervisor can come back and put a oops tag they call it you made a mistake and then it continues then we can work within the ordinance is to not pick it up in site site individual so the garbage and recycling carts the cost of the carts would be included in the 2020 capital improvement designated in the capital fund so 37,000 carts like I said they range between 51 and $55 I've been working with the recycling partnership of America right now they have a grant for up to $7 per recycling cart I asked if they'd give me a grant for the garbage carts they said no and then we would there's some other things we would be eligible for they have a coastal grant being on the Great Lakes so I'd be able to apply for additional funds for education and recycling containers for public facilities so there's 64 gallon and 96 gallon carts they have a similar footprint we've got 95 96 gallon and then in a 64 gallon talking with cart manufacturers and recycling partnership they recommend everybody starts out with a 95 gallon cart and they try it out and see how it works and then if you need to then you substitute with the 65 gallon the reason for that is as people automatically think they want the 65 gallon and you end up like the city of West Des Moines who has a thousand 64 gallon carts that are 15 years old sitting in the public works yard because everyone ordered them they got them decided they wanted the bigger one and then they swapped out the majority of people I believe are gonna want a 95 gallon so if you give everyone a 95 gallon and you substitute out with the 64 at least the 95 one would be a stock and would be able to be go out if there is damage the manufacturer we're looking at is the only one that has a 12 year warranty on the body 10 years on the lids and the wheels I'd recommend that you buy the same color body and then you buy different color lids for garbage and recycling that way you don't have to stock two different colors of bodies just stock two different colors of lid someone's garbage lid breaks and you bring them a garbage lid you know if their body breaks and you just have one body and you don't have to have a black body or a green body or whatever colors that that we decide this is totter that we've been looking at with their manufacturing their rotary mold so they're they were a rubber made company so there's rubber made tubs and then sterilite which is the harder plastic this would be like a rubber made tub the other majors or manufacturer is a little more brittle it's like the sterilite tub they have a tenure warranty because of the manufacturing process with this this is the one of the carts where you can use recyclable material and it doesn't necessarily affect the quality or the warranty so it's a 12 year warranty on the body whether it's 50% recycling down to no recycling or some of the other manufacturers you get in the higher recycling content and then the quality isn't there in the warranty so as we talked earlier basically our routes are broken down by structures there's 15,000 hard time reading about 15,000 structures in the city but 18,397 residents that's due to the single family versus duplex three family and a four family so we would have to change our routes because of the time it takes for the arm to go in and out to route them based on household versus structure we've already identified about 387 stops it would be a challenge for the new trucks a lot of it's doing the backing down an alley with one individual and then collecting one side and then pulling out then pulling in and then backing out on oncoming traffic there's probably going to be a few more stops that we're going to add to this but the vast majority of them are going to be able to be picked up from the curbside or from the alley with the automated arm so we have a couple different ways that we can address these problem areas one is called semi-automated collection and that's where you put a flipper on the back and the worker does move the cart to the back flips the garbage in and then puts the cart off the side and moves on the other way we could do it is two individuals could take the spare truck out so you have a spotter or they park the truck and they move all the cans to it and dump them in in some of those tight areas long term parks is collected manually we have a smaller park truck I think when that park truck is at the end of its life we look at buying a smaller automated truck that can get into those alleys and do a three-point turn and go up and down and then that truck would be used for the it's probably going to be it's 380 stops now I'd say probably 500 weekly stops and then that truck would be used for picking up park garbage and for some of these challenging spots when that truck when that park trucks at the end of its useful life so I admit that there are some areas that are going to be challenging but I think we'll be able to handle it with 18,000 stops three to five hundred isn't a large amount to deal with on a weekly basis option three would be to contract and then it would be pretty much the similar to the option to one person talking with consultants they recommend that the city still purchase the carts and the reason for that is is if you change vendors and they own the carts then you're gonna have to manage them picking up their carts and with the new contractor delivering the new carts where we own the carts we own that process and we have a little bit more control over it some of the risks of private after the first five-year term lots of times you're seeing the competitive price thing goes up quite a bit when the cities get rid of their their employees and the equipment it's hard for them to get back into it you also go from a service managing a service to overseeing a contract so today our garbage men tagged a resident she had paint out and it wasn't done properly the garbage men tagged it for him left it there and the lead been gets involved he goes explains what she did wrong and he ends up taking it and actually went into her basement and took like six bags of the paint which normally we don't do and I can tell you a contractor isn't gonna go that far and do that lots of times we get the calls you know we'll put a helper truck out in Clement weather or we have mandatory safety meetings so instead of the four trucks we'll put a helper truck out and that truck will get 25% of all the other routes so your garbage is normally your garbage guy is usually there at 11 o'clock every day so you don't put your garbage out to 1030 there's a helper truck your garbage man comes by at nine o'clock we get the phone call he didn't pick mine up we missed it we all know that we didn't not pick the one up but we go back to make you guys look good and we go back and we pick it up and that's the kind of service you do get with the city provided garbage collection Kohler is the most recent contract that went out in our area they came back at $11.70 for garbage and recycling so that that's guaranteed for the first one to two years and then it will go up and yours three to five with the CPI and then they have surcharges for fuel and other things that can add to cost of collection so we had option one which was keep going option two would be for us to continue or to get into the automated side loading collection with carts and bins and option three would be to contract that out so the thought analysis which is hard to read in here was about $9.08 to continue going on $9.43 for us to go in with biweekly collection for the recycling and weekly collection for the garbage and then option three ten dollars and forty one cents was based on 2018 data talking with a local hauler it wasn't a bid or wasn't a can wasn't a competitive bid prices so they could basically came out down to six dollars per household to pick up and then adding the cart cost on to it and that's how they got to the ten dollars and forty one cents so yeah German Jason something that you and I talked about just so we understand is that this bid for the contractor included picking up the recycling every week where we're proposing picking it up every every other week so there might be a slight difference in the 1041 because of the added service right there could be you look at the Kohler one which is the most recent and that's at $11 talking with the consultants he doesn't think the six dollars they could do it any lower than that and like I said earlier a lot of these manufacturers or excuse me they're not manufacturers hauling will come in at a low price and then after your end is when the price increased dramatically right now waste is our tipping they do a lot of commercial pick up they do not do a lot of residential pick up in the city advanced is the main one and they're pretty much the only player when you get into harders is in the western part of the state Johns is more southeastern Wisconsin and Waste Republic and has not moved up into this area very much either so we're pretty much going to rely on one one hauler so if we went forth we'd purchase the trucks roll out an inflammation plan in 2019 in January of 2020 we would purchase the carts and then we would start in May I did talk with actually waste management they did recommend that you start in June and not may they said it's sometimes when you start in between Memorial Day and excuse me July is when they recommend the first full month without a holiday I'm screwing that up I'm sorry June 1st they said wait till after Memorial Day so you have a full month of June before the 4th of July holiday so lots of times if you start in early May and then you have a holiday people are learning the new schedule and everything gets shifted by a day so the trucks do take about nine to ten months so that's why we buy the trucks this year the carts take six to eight week lead time so you'd be able to purchase the carts in January of 2020 and have them here in enough time so the option costing again so funding for the garbage in the recycling carts we can borrow at about a 3% 10 year it's $171,000 in finance charges no upfront cost to the citizens you pay back over ten years this advantages it impacts the bond rating tax increase for all the citizens not participating in the service such as small businesses and apartment complexes more than four units and it will limit other projects pay limiting the money available for other public works projects recycling fee option a four dollar a month recycling fee to citizens would come off about 830,000 $883,000 annually a minimal cost it doesn't add to the borrowing debt it doesn't impact the bond rating it increases the city operation capacity the disadvantage additional monthly fee and a two and a half year payback so the Wisconsin Journal Sentinel went through and listed a lot of the southeastern Wisconsin garbage and recycling fees if you combine the $5 fee with the $4 fee we'd come out to $108 we'd be on the lower end of the monthly fees we also look at all those fees and as the numbers go up there's not any more public service it's all private as those fees go up the average was 170 when you averaged out all those communities of annual fee for garbage and recycling so the department the city puts out a survey to I forgot to mention asking for feedback from the citizens the last two years there's been quite a few responses from the citizens asking for carts so both the citizens and department public works believe the sheboyin should move away from manually collection and move to a cart-based system the department recommends implementing the $4 monthly household fee yeah questions or I had some discussions with you a few days ago about your funding options for both the carts and the trucks and I believe you told me you were looking into a lease program on the carts along with the grant funds that Jason talked about have you got any more information on that and you were saying something about we would get a more favorable rate because because of being a municipality yes what you've identified is correct I think Jason alluded to the fact that the capital capitalized costs associated with the trucks because the city anticipated this discussion point I think five of the trucks are included in the 2019 budget we would look toward the fund balance within the motor vehicle fund for the remaining number of trucks again seven which includes one spare for the carts themselves worked with the finance director Halverson worked with Mr. Bebel and others looking what other funds within the city we could tap as as an advance to pay for the capital costs associated with the carts the concern of course is that as we go through our 2019 and 2020 borrowing even though we have additional funds available in our general fund and even our debt service fund both of those funds are looked at by Moody's when the city goes out for our borrowing so we would take a sizable amount in addition to the large amount that was transferred in 2018 for the city hall project my concerns that could net harm or negatively affect our very good credit rating so Jason did mention to the cart manufacturer that we were looking at all options to unright the cost the capital costs of the carts the companies that manufacture carts do work with lease leasing or invest investment companies and was able to get a couple different proposals as you alluded to because we're a public entity they're able to take advantage that it is a public intended use the manufacture and ultimate use of the carts and so we're able to take advantage with roughly an eight with roughly a four percent interest rate if we're looking at a lease period of 10 years so 10 years and then we would purchase the carts for a dollar or 50 cents something nominal so the the calculations that Jason put together and presented to the Public Works Committee the interest rate is a little bit higher I think he had 3% versus 4% that he was using on his calculations but the $4 would be close to covering the actual cost the advantage of going the leasing route is that we would not have to report that as debt to Moody's so it would not appear as it's as if it's an additional two million dollars of outstanding debt so again every little bit helps as as as it pertains to trying to retain our again very favorable credit rating just to follow up if I may and then on the on the garbage trucks the the plan for that is to take that out of the take the majority of that out of the motor vehicle fund is that correct yes it's part of the analysis performed by city staff we asked them to go through the process of looking at like a five-year projection so again tapping the fund balance within the motor vehicle fund also looking at possibly reducing the amount of of help that fund receives on the last I think three or four years it's been roughly a million dollars that you've allowed million dollars of annual new issue debt to help pay for some of the more significant needs and priorities that public works have placed on those vehicles but starting as early as next year reduce it to as low as a quarter of a million dollars again mr. Bebel and staff looked at those projections including an increase in the charges for services to the different departments I may get this wrong I think it's been 15 years since there's been an increase in the actual charges again this includes staffing cost so the hope is to sort of right-size that budget reduce the overall debt that we incur and in essence transfer this fund but we think even with the use of fund balance for the remaining purchase of the necessary vehicles for this project it would be a sustainable financial plan for the motor vehicles fund so we currently have about roughly the two million dollars in the motor vehicle fund for 2019 roughly 1.1 million 1.2 excuse me 1.2 million is already slated to be included as borrowed funds we won't receive some revenues from trading in our existing trucks roughly 150 to 275 so that that will help and again the remaining we would tap that fund balance for the remaining capitalized cost of these seven new trucks so in your opinion Darrell you're happy with the financing that structure we've come up with for both the carts in the trucks yes I am thank you thank you chair I apologize for my voice I'll try to keep it real short but we know better I want to compliment everybody on on a really good job public works has been working on this for for quite a few years again we did bring in the fourth group and did a study which gave public works a lot of direction and and gave us a lot of information there's only certain projects that come to the city to a city of municipality that touch everybody in some way shape or form and this is one of them I know as a as a an alder for many years that this is one of them that have has had a positive effect that our constituents continue to ask when is this going to get implemented and when are we going to do it so I agree as it was discussed in the very beginning even though there is a cost the benefits definitely outweigh what that's going to be and it's going to be a learning curve I think the public works has done a great job also working with with Darrell and his team on financing options looking at leasing versus purchasing versus outsourcing and doing what we're doing today is not in my opinion not an option we've we've had the best of all all all areas we have such a great team that that make it very difficult for us to look at some of the new changes but as far as safety and quality and moving forward we really need to get to an automated process so in my opinion I recommend this and I think that the city needs to move forward on this and the sooner the better thank you I also my two years on the council have heard nothing but complaints about current garbage pickup situation and I'm looking forward to this type of a system which certainly is necessary the seagulls do get out to the far west side of town too and we see them every Tuesday I want to arrive there are a number of issues concerning placement of carts concerning lost carts and how do we charge people for them and those kinds of things I'm assuming that public works will continue to work on those issues if we do decide to go forward or if you've already done some planning and some of those things yet yes and in and we have a full implementation plan is part of probably the next big initiative that we're going to be working on once once we get a decision on if this is the direction we want ahead that's going to be what we're going to be working on is information education program as Alderman Wolfe mentioned this affects everyone in the community so we really need to get the message right and we need to get that out to everybody so we're going to be looking at multiple different ways neighborhood meetings with the neighborhood associations outreaching with some of the the rental properties and in the landlord associations as well as just the residents themselves and giving that type of information where to place the car what day you're going to do it and so forth so yeah that that will be a big a big program that will be forthcoming. Anyone have any other questions for public works? Just a question. Are we saving any labor costs? Well obviously not half but there there is some labor cost saving so we we're going from eight operators to six operators and what the proposal is is that we would reduce the staff through attrition or through retirements and looking at our budgets by by 2020 we anticipate to have those openings available and just would not be backfilled with with additional person also. Anyone else? Chairman, I know I'm anticipating phone calls from my constituents when this program is rolled out in the Sheboygan Press and I guess the question I that I'm going to get is we already have the $5 garbage fee per month. Why are you going to be charging me another $4 a month? How would you suggest I answer that? I think we'll be developing a like a position paper on that definitely get get all that type of information but one of the one of the event of the fee is that now we have the carts that's an added cost so we have to pay for it one way so one way was well we could just send you a bill for the cart that which you know it's going to be about $100 per resident or and that doesn't even include like we're talking some of the capital costs of the truck replacement and so forth so the the fee structure kind of what it does is it kind of also mirrors what we're doing for motor vehicles that we're it's starting to become like an enterprise fund where the direct cost of the program will be attributable to the program so the $4 fee will go for the recycling carts as well as the two recycling trucks and will be tracked in the budget as such. And then if I could just follow up on that the $4 fee how long do you anticipate it will be $4 is it going to go down is it going to go up and what's going to be the contributing factor to maybe going up or down. We have a contract that's due for our transfer and tipping that ends this year so that will be a five-year contract again so depending upon that contract and we're anticipating probably right as of today the cycling is free to the city so in other words a ton of recyclables costs $0 the trend in the industry is there's now going to be a fee for recyclables partly because the contamination issue as well as now with the markets in China not buying much of the recyclable material the markets just aren't there. So based on that contract the opportunity would be is when that five years expires and we go out for a re-up or another contract or RFP and if those costs would raise significantly then I would that would mirror probably the the opportunity then with the recycling or garbage fee we'd have to look at it and say okay these are what the bids are we may have to increase that at that point. Thanks. All right anyone else. Very long. I do intend to support all three of the resolutions and I won't be talking but I there's just a couple of things that I wanted to mention. One of the things that finally did sell me on this is the fact that our residents don't have to purchase the carts outright. I think the recycle fee is it's just one of those if you get a little tiny bit every month it's not as hard as you know sending in your what the IRS wants from you for your taxes and that sort of thing. I loved the videos of the guys picking up the garbage. Dancers they're like dancers it was poetic it was great I'm I'm serious I was as riveted this time as I was the first time I watched the video and so and I do appreciate their strength and agility and hard work. So I that's all good. I do know that there are seagulls around and they peck bags apart as I drive around though there are many many many many many more bags that are not pecked apart by seagulls that being said I still think there's a compelling reason to use the carts. Here's my here's my issue in observation. Tim and I spend a little time in Milwaukee from time to time that has the carts and it's in an old neighborhood with near narrow sidewalks and you don't walk you pick your way around the carts that will stay out for a day or two days or three days or they there's some that just seem to always be there. I represent constituents in the old part of the city where there aren't garages Tim and I'll actually have to build another garage to fit these two honkers in or I'm gonna have to start parking my you know we have a modest garage you know we don't have a three car garage and a big driveway we just don't run an alley. I have no idea where we're gonna put these suckers I'm it's it's really it's gonna be interesting but people need to understand that yes it's not nice to see pecked apart garbage bags it's also really not nice to see these unsightly carts out all day if you're lucky it's just all day and if you're not lucky it's and we're gonna have in my district houses where people don't have a place to put them we do have a garage and I can park my car on the street but there are lots and lots of people in my district that don't have garages and they you know it's it's just they don't have driveways you know they're just old apartments or old houses that before we did those kinds of things so I do appreciate the fact that we're doing the media presentation I I think we're trading one inconvenience for another and I expect to get a fair number of phone calls but the other thing is people get used to stuff you know you just get used to it so to me it is not it's not a decisional factor that they look ugly and they're gonna be on the sidewalk and we're not gonna be able to walk around like we used to because people will get used to it and will enforce things and so forth so I just and I only say all of this in this long speech is to say this is no panacea this is no wonderful way that we are improving our community I think we're being smarter I think worker safety is very important but I think we're all gonna be getting quite a few phone calls and it's gonna start to make the packed apart bags look not so bad after all so so we'll see no I understand it the first couple months is it's gonna be some heartburn with it and it's gonna be a learning curve but it is the industry standard and it's the way most most of the state has gone thank you chair Jason how many how many garbage bags can fit in a 96 gallon container I took I brought them over my pickup truck but I took them out but I bought them packing peanuts which are pretty light and fluffy and I was getting six sitting on top of each other just like that for a volume but you can get six seven cart bags into them and the reason I bring that up is even when you watch the video correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of the homes would have four five six or eight bags and respectful very little recycling right so the concept is obviously we want we want our constituents to recycle more which helps us with our cost it also helps them to put more materials into the second container which is also cheaper for us theoretically and then it means that that five or six bags of refuge would fit into the one container versus piled up on the inside of garage or on the side of a house correct thank you Dean yes one comment that I'd like to make is that first of all thank Jason and David for their their efforts in this they've really done a good job I think this is just this is the beginning this is just the start we're gonna have some more work Dave and Jason are gonna have more work and they know that and I think that their leadership will bring us through on this and I think you know we're gonna have to make there's gonna be some ordinance changes that are gonna probably have to go along with this and but I think this is this is the way to go I mean even if we didn't even if we went to try to go with the bag system we would have to do something different with our recyclables anyways there's no way we could stay with the from what everything we've been indicated there's no way we could stay with the current bag system with our recyclables so we would end up with a cart for just our recyclables well now we're halfway there already anyways why don't we complete the job and I guess that's all my comments any other questions for the folks that public works all right seeing none thank you gentlemen we'll jump into item 3.1 our number 238 1819 by the city clerk submitting a communication from older person boarding boron regarding publishing in the New York Times dated March 16th 2019 with the headline as cost rockets more cities stop recycling I'll turn it over to older person boron thank you Mr. Chairman I hope you've had a chance to read the article I'm just going to read a couple things just to give you the flavor and as the chairman mentioned the article is as cost skyrocket more u.s. city stop recycling with China no longer accepting use plastic in paper communities are facing steep collection bills forcing them to end their programs or burn or bury more waste recycling for decades and almost reflective effort by American households and businesses to reduce waste and help the environment is collapsing in many parts of the country philadelphia is now burning about half of its 1.5 million residents recycling material and incinerator that converts it to energy and then there was a another community down in florida central florida deltona faced with the reality that despite their best efforts to recycle their curbside program was not working and suspended it I guess my question David and this article this article is in the New York Times the one yesterday was in the shabuigan press and a few days earlier it was in the Milwaukee Journal one of the mayors was quoted as saying that one of the mayors was quoted as saying recycling is a luxury that we no longer can afford and I guess what worries me a little bit David and Jason is this renewal of this contract that's coming up can you just give us a flavor of how everything that's going on in the worldwide recycling cycling market is going to affect us over the next three four or five years it's definitely changing in its market rate it's market-based so right now there's really not a lot of market for it so what the companies have done is there's stockpiling it and unfortunately they're running out of room to stockpile it until the market gets better we're always going to have some form of recycling the industry has invested literally billions of dollars to manage recyclable materials so it's just not like they're going to turn a switch off and say well we're out of the business will it be more costly for us yes but it won't be as costly as garbage so it still should be a savings however as it won't be as great as a savings as we've been used to as I mentioned earlier right as of today we're paying zero dollars per ton for our recyclables if it goes up to $15 or even $20 it's still less expensive than the $47 a ton for garbage so it it it is a cost we know there's going to be challenges with it but I still think that we're going to be recycling in in in this country one way or the other there is a there are there are some materials where such as aluminum that there is a direct advantage to recycling aluminum because it is much cheaper to recycle aluminum versus virgin material other materials however that's not the case and so some division decisions will be made on a longer term basis on does it make sense to recycle some of this material or not so that would be the key and there's and there's a lot of legislation in place right now that would need to be changed in order just to start banning materials are getting out of recycling completely and then if that would be the case I think then you'd have the industries and the lobbyists coming at him saying hey we just invested billions of dollars on the premise that this is the law this has to be managed in a certain way and now you're changing it so I think it's not it's it's not a matter of you know a snapshot in time as today it's going to take as it as it took to to get recycling in place to where it is today it took us about 25 years it's not going to go away that quickly it's going to take some time if it would be changed and go away over time Mr. Mayor thank you very much Mr. Chairman I had a conversation with Jason and you know I read some articles about many of the communities are going back to dual stream recycling so that the products that end up being recycled are more virgin and cleaner and Jason went and checked with some of the companies in the area and he said Mike they're not going to make that change to to that for the foreseeable future they've invested so much in the dual stream recycling mirfs the material refo recovery facilities that that's not going to happen for a long time but he also said that if they do do that then all we have to do is put on a another recycling two trucks and we can go and we can pick up recycling twice you know one time it would be for the paper and cardboard and the next time it would be for the cans and bottles so we can't adapt to that if that's the way they go in the future but it's not something he feels we're going to see in the near future at all any other discussion on this item seeing none I believe the correct motion would be to file is there such motion there's there's been a motion in a second any more discussion on 3.1 seeing none all those in favor of filing this please state aye anyone opposed chair votes aye all right jumping into 3.2 RC number 284 1819 by the Public Works Committee to whom referred was resolution number 192 1819 by Elder Persons Wolfe and Sorenson authorizing the appropriate city officials entering to contract with Sun graphics media for the creation of materials for public education and outreach related to the automated garbage and recycling program all the person will thank you chair I first like to make a motion to approve but then I'd like Mr. Bevel to kind of explain a little bit about this portion of it all right there's been a motion is there a second there's been a motion in a second sure what this portion would be is we'd work with Sun graphics to develop our information education program that we are anticipating with this process as we all mentioned earlier this is going to impact everybody in the community so we want to make sure we get that information out correctly get the right message to the right the right the right audience as well so it's going to be a little bit tailored for each audience you know we like I mentioned we have the renter you rental units the the audience is with the landlords versus the neighborhood associations and so forth so that's part of the process that we're looking to go over with this again it's a work in progress we we we have some material from both as well now it's a matter of packaging that and putting it together in a comprehensive program so we can get that message out thank you Mr. Chairperson I'd first like to say that I am 100% in favor of the garbage collection proposal to move to automated trucks as well as the great work that Sun graphics does however in committee it came to my attention that Sun graphics was given this car was proposed to get this contract without competitive bidding and that's just unacceptable we are here to be good stewards of the public tech tax dollars and this is a very rare occasion when I feel where I feel that we're not being those good stewards while Sun graphics might be the right company they're probably going to do a great job for us without getting competitive bids I think we may be overpaying and with that I cannot vote in favor of this without a competitive bid thank you on that on that subject typically for professional services our department does not go out for competitive bids when we go out for such as I'll use engineering companies as well we'll negotiate and get proposals based upon a standard hours of work or a scope of work look at deliverables so on professional service contracts we typically don't go out for bids now construction projects yes we do are for for purchases of equipment for eggs and an example I understand completely that it's soul sourced from a department's perspective we just had a relationship with Sun graphics on on some other projects we've they worked with the county for instance on on some of the the bike and wreck as well as their stormwater management so that's partly why we reached out to them we looked at their hourly rates and some of the professional services that they provide we felt it was part of the industry standard so but I do do understand your concern and we're cognizant of price as well and we don't want to be overpaying for this material as well and we felt that at least for what was proposed was within that that that framework Jim thank you chairman just a technicality isn't this Sun's Sun graphics thing on the agenda to around night for public works that that's for a budget transfer for the transfer but that that we actually have money within the garbage and recycling account that we're we're gonna probably the recommendation tomorrow night is just to file that and because the money won't have to be transferred it's within the it's within our garbage and recycling as we are today okay thank you okay any more discussion on this item seeing none there's been a motion in a second all those in favor of approving this and sending it to the council for a recommendation of approval please state aye anyone opposed chair votes aye that one's approved okay moving along 3.3 RC number 289 1819 by the public works committee to whom was referred by resolution number one 90 1819 by elder persons Wolf and Sorenson expressing the sense of the council that transitioning to an automated garbage and recycling collection program is the best interest in the city there's been a motion to approve in a second any more discussion on this one all right seeing none all those in favor of approving this with a recommendation to the council please state aye anyone opposed chair votes aye thank you moving along 3.4 RC number 290 1819 by the public works committee to whom was referred by resolution number 191 1819 by elder persons Sorenson and Wolf authorizing the department of public works to purchase seven new way auto carts automated garbage and recycling collection trucks there's been a motion and a second by elder person boron any discussion on this item all right seeing no more discussion all those in favor of approving this resolution please state aye anyone opposed chair votes aye that is approved all right seeing that we have a gen of the exhaust of the agenda is there a motion to adjourn the meeting there's been a motion and a second to adjourn all those in favor of adjourning please state aye anyone opposed we are adjourned at 7 15 thank you everyone for coming tonight


So I'd like to just ask you a question about simulation, so I noticed that the podcast is called simulation and I was thinking, wow, Allen must be into rehearsal, practice, something. Why does he call it simulation? So why is your show called simulation? It's called simulation for so many reasons. You know, it's so funny that, you know, we are here, Center for Medical Simulation, and I think that when you take simulations in healthcare, simulations in engineering software to find the right fit for aerospace or for automotive or for whatever industry on an engineering software side of things, or there's simulations used for how to calculate the trajectory of the rockets that need to go to the International Space Station, you know, there's simulations for biology, the central dogma of biology, and how that actually works when you drop in, you know, the pharmaceuticals into the biological system, how that affects it. I mean, it's endless where simulations are actually applied already in real life. And so, you know, that's, you know, one of the reasons, of course, another one of the reasons is because the question of if we are in a simulation is very interesting and it also speaks greatly to in the next couple of decades, hopefully within 50 years we'll be running our own simulations and we'll be able to do things like look back at how humans actually evolved from, you know, from the Big Bang to the development of the Earth orbiting the star to the development of life all the way up to civilization flourishing. And we can actually finally look at all of the artifacts, the archaeology of the anthropology of the evolution and we can not have to play the guessing game. We can actually watch how language was invented, how fire was invented, how the wheel was invented. And so anyway, that's, you know, these are the reasons why it's called... You are really attracted to these abilities to kind of predict and play out and that's why you named it simulation or... Yeah, yeah, that and I would also say that it's just a lot of the shows about also asking really thought-provoking questions to leaders at the edge of their fields and inspiring and engaging other people to get to the edge and work at the edge and build the future and so, you know, the thought-provoking question, you know, are we in a simulation? What is consciousness? Are we alone in the cosmos? The last question we like to ask our guests is what is the most beautiful thing in the world?