This is part two of Lecture 10. So in the first part of the lecture, we already saw just how important relationships are for our general health and well-being. So it's actually not a surprise that from the very moments that we are born, the first thing we do is seeking contact with a person that will look after us. That's definitely the first instinct that human babies have the moment they are born. It's actually quite magical to witness. So from the moment we are born, we want to form relationships with others. And of course, in the first stages of our lives, this is with our caregivers, oftentimes our parents, the people that will look after us. And we need them, of course, to provide food and shelter, but also emotional comforts. And the very first theory basically on relationships, human relationships was especially on this part, our human need to form attachments. And this theory is called attachment theory. It's first developed by John Bulby in 1969. So this is approximately 10 years after Harry Harlow conducted his experiments on the baby monkeys. So at the core, what the attachment theory states is that the attachment, the very early attachment that we form to our parents and to our caregivers basically shapes our relationships for the rest of our lives. They basically form a working model for how we see relationships. And later on, this attachment theory has been further developed by Mary Ainsworth. And it's still a very influential theory in relationship science. And Mary Ainsworth showed that there's actually different ways in which we can attach to our caregivers. And she studies this in, I think, a very interesting way. This is an experiment done with mothers and their very young children. These children were oftentimes only one-year-olds. And these mothers and their infants basically came to the laboratory. And they took place in a room. And in this room, there were also toys. And they just started playing together. This experiment also has a name. It's called a strange situation because it's a very strange situation for a young baby to be in a laboratory setting at first with the mother. So they started to play together in this laboratory room full of toys. And then something upsetting happens for the baby because the mother leaves the room. And as a mother of one-year-olds, I can confirm the moment you leave the room, the baby starts crying. And that's totally normal. This is, you know, sometimes it's also just necessary. Sometimes you need to leave the room even when you're attending a baby. And that's perfectly fine. It's also fine that the baby starts crying because the baby needs a signal. You know, I cannot take care of myself. I need someone to look after me. It's just an instinct of the baby to start crying. So that's actually not the interesting part of the experiment. The interesting part of the experiment is what happens the moment the mother comes back into the room because the mother has just gone for maybe a minute or so and then she re-enters the room and a reunion follows. And what Mary Ainsworth was interested in is how the baby responds to the mother when she returns. And this says something about the way this infant, this child is attached to the mother. And I'll now show you the experiment on the strange situation and you also will see the different ways in which children can respond to a reunion with their caregiver. This experiment, which I watched through a two-way mirror, is designed to gauge how secure is the crucial relationship between mother and child. The bunny is going to go here and that bunny will be on top. The value of the test has been established in studies that would watch a child one-year-old and then follow it up and interview them about the relationships to their parents when they were 21 years old. So we're quite confident in the long-term significance of this relationship. After several minutes play, the mother is signaled to leave the room. I'll get you back in one minute. But she'll survive. The key moment in the experiment is the child's reaction to her mother's return. The important clue is whether the baby's able to become calmed down by the contact with the mother and get back to play. Sometimes it takes a couple of minutes. But you see, when the mother was out, she was only interested in the mother, no interest in the toys. Now she has a contact with the mother, she's beginning to show a little interest in the environment, and shortly she'll be right back with the toys where we started. So you would call this a secure one? Yes, yes. She's certainly much happier. Goes to the door following her. Now, we sent the mother right back in. The point here is not to distress the baby, we're just trying to challenge it.   The baby's still sullen. He's low-keyed. So you would call this insecure attached? Yes, insecure. He's avoidant. He's not engaging her, and the reunion's not effective. And it's important to remember here that the thing that upset him was her absence. Her return should be the solution to his problem. Now this is another pattern that we see in babies who are not good at using their mother as a secure base at home. This baby is also insecure. But you'll see we get a look at his play before the separation. Mother's left. When she returns, she picks him up. He can't calm down. He's still upset. She offers a toy to amuse him or to comfort him or to distract him and he slaps it away. She offers another. He slaps it away. He's angry. We call these babies resistant or ambivalent because they both want her back and yet can't use the contact. We think that the difficulty is that in the past, when he sought comfort, she's been inconsistent as to whether she's available and responsive or not. So in this experiment, you see different attachment styles. And it's important to realize that children form attachment styles but also when we grow up into adults and we form relationships with others, especially the romantic relationships, we also still have these attachment styles. And there's lots of different ways of naming the attachment styles. There's also a lot of different definitions. But I'll just stick to the definitions that are also in your book, just to make it more easy for you to understand. And in the book, there's three attachment styles that are central. The first one is the secure attachment style. The second one is the avoidant attachment style and the third one is the anxious attachment style. And these three different attachment styles really have a big impact on our relationship. So let's zoom into these three different attachment styles and we'll start with the secure attachment style. And if you are securely attached as a child but also later on in the relationships you form with your friends and with your romantic partner, then you have a positive view of yourself and you also have a positive view of others. You don't have any problems forming relationships and you also know that the moments that you are in distress, if you are in pain, in danger, if something is going on in your life, you reach out to others. You reach out to others for support. If you're insecure, if you feel threatened, that's what you do. And that's actually a very healthy way of forming attachments. And if you're securely attached to your parents when you grow up, then this also predicts long-term relationship success. So if you had parents that looked after you and were there for you the moments that you felt distressed and that just showed support and that you felt really warm, a warm caring relationship with, then it's a very high likelihood that you also are very well able to form good relationships with others when you grow up. And luckily, the majority of the population has a secure attachment style. 66% of the people, so there's a very high likelihood that you also are securely attached in your relationships. But of course, there's still quite a big chunk of people that do not fall into this category of secure attachment. They fall into the broader category of insecure attachment. And there's really a lot of different insecure attachment styles and I'll now zoom into two of them. And they are also the two that I think you will recognize the most. They're very nicely captured, I think, in this image. These are two people that might be in a relationship. It could be.  One person is avoidant. And an avoidant attachment style, 25%, so one out of four people have an avoidant attachment style, they have actually difficulties developing intimate relationships. Oftentimes they distrust others. They have difficulties trusting others, often because they've been abandoned in the past. They feel like others are basically not worthy of their love and they really have this very strong desire to be independent. Sounds familiar for some of you, maybe? And I think as a general audience for non-experts, we can recognize this as people that have a fear of getting into a relationship, sort of bonding issues. Then you have the other insecure attachment style, and that is basically the opposite attachment style. That's the anxious attachment style. Approximately 90% of people have this attachment style. And if you have an anxious attachment style, you have a very high need to form relationships. So you desperately want to be in a relationship with others. But you feel unworthy. You feel like others might leave you because you're not worthy of their love or attention. And especially if these two people form a relationship together, this can be highly problematic because you have one person that really desperately wants to be in a relationship and wants to cling on to the other person, and you have the other person that might be avoidant and is very easily feels trapped in a relationship or feels suffocated in a relationship. So these two styles don't go well together, but you still see that oftentimes in other relationships together. At this moment in the lecture, you might also start feeling a little bit panicky or at least some discomfort. Maybe you recognize yourself in one of the insecure attachment styles, or maybe you think that maybe your partner or your best friend or someone in your close environment is insecurely attached. Or you might be thinking back to your childhood and thinking like, oh my god, my parents were actually like me when I was little. And does that now mean that I'm doomed to have bad relationships in the rest of my life? Well, that's definitely not the case. I just want to reassure you that these... in the first sort of development of the attachment theory, it was a little bit doomsday. Like if you have a bad attachment style, you are just stuck in bad relationships forever. And we now know that this is certainly not the case. Attachment styles can and will change over your lifetime. And it's also something that is based on your experiences. So for example, when you've been insecurely attached in your childhood, if you had parents that were not supportive, that basically were not looking after you the way they should have and not providing comfort at the crucial moments in your life and you were maybe insecurely attached, then if you grew up, maybe you formed relationships with your friends or with a romantic partner who actually was there for you and provided comfort, then you can become more securely attached. And also the attachment styles we have differ per relationship. So in one relationship, you might be a bit anxious, in the other relationship, you might be a bit avoidant, and in another relationship, you might be more secure. So there's lots of variations and you can definitely also change. In the lecture of this course, we see the situation also really plays a huge role in how we feel and also how we attach to others. Still, if you experience difficulties in relationships, maybe have difficulties connecting to other people, forming deep emotional bonds, then there's also some ways that you can change. And there are some tactics that you can use to work in your relationship. And you can do so, for example, with a therapist, with an individual therapist, or with a relationship therapist, if you are in a relationship. And if you then get some more insight into your own attachment style and your own patterns that you might be stuck in leading to more destructive behaviors, that can be really helpful in changing into a more secure and positively securely attached relationship style. So a therapist can give you some advice on how to deal with difficult moments in your relationship. Making sure that you can communicate what you need from a partner at a certain point in time. And if you experience difficulties in this part, this is something that I would definitely highly recommend. Even if you're not in a relationship right now, this can be really helpful investment into your future relationships and your future happiness.


I have an easy question, is cardiovascular disease still the number one killer and is by definition, by and large, yes it hasn't changed at all, although we don't see it manifest in the younger groups like we used to because smoking is down and that's a great thing. You know in 1965, 44% of the US population smoked, if you watch an old movie, oh my god it's crazy, they're like smoking all the time, in fact there was something recently, oh Yellowstone, the girl smoked so much on Yellowstone and it looks so foreign like put it down, please don't smoke. So cardiovascular disease is still the number one killer of both men and women, but particularly black men and black women, they're the two highest rates of death due to cardiovascular disease in the world. And the good follow-up question to that is why, well probably and I think you might agree it's the blood pressure is a bigger issue in black men and women. They get it earlier and it's more severe and it goes untreated for longer because people are not thinking that they can get high blood pressure in their 20s and in their 30s.


We are very happy to announce NextCloud Whiteboard. This is a fully collaborative whiteboard inside of NextCloud. You can see the cursors of others, draw lines and shapes, write text, add pictures, and annotate together. Since the whiteboards are saved among the regular files, you can collaborate however you want. You can have a call in NextCloud Talk and work on a whiteboard with the participants. And you can even share a link with people outside of your NextCloud. It's just as easy. A presentation mode makes others follow your view so they are automatically focused on what you are talking about or noting down. And of course, we included two templates for the whiteboard, as well, to get you started. One for a SWOT analysis and an impact effort matrix. We work together with the open source whiteboard software SpaceDac to integrate all of this nicely into NextCloud.


That worked great Hello, I am Tom Jones. I'm a researcher at the University of Aberdeen. I work on Internet transport. I currently work on an EU project, which is trying to build a new socket API to replace the one we have and that offers features and deployability and fall over and automation. It's really cool Before that, I'm going to talk about putting boxes on hills. So I started working at the University of Aberdeen in 2014 I was hired into the electronics research group where we do cool stuff with satellites and at that point we had gotten involved with the craziest UK funding idea you'll ever hear of It was an interdisciplinary hub called dotrural The the hub was made up of social scientists, ecologists biologists, transport people and by transport people I mean like cars and buses not interesting transport And social scientists if you ever want crazy ideas work with the social scientists It's unreal At the part of dotrural we did really strange things So here we have a picture of the internals of a camera trap we built the Project was driven by some sightings on the Cairngorn mountain range in Scotland There are sightings every year in a month of this really rare birds that people have been trying to track down forever And they want to try and get some idea of what its mating habits were and how often it visited sites And they looked at using commercial camera traps, but because we had all this funding we decided to build something a bit more complicated So I think this is one of the very early prototypes where we use microcontrollers and Six low-pan Later on we replaced all this with a Raspberry Pi an Arduino cameras Activation stuff and then we connected it all to a huge satellite modem and we had a satellite link that it hung off And what we did with this is we took it up the biggest man range in Scotland And this comes with its own problems this man range is covered in deer not not reindeer a bit More reindeer actually, but normal deer that run wild across here The deer use any rocks or stones they come across to rut against so they can remove their antlers So anything hard on ground level was going to be attacked repeatedly by angry deer So you think okay Well, you just raise it off the ground and you have a flimsy base But the kind of ground man range also sees the highest wind speeds in the UK The highest recorded wind speed in the United Kingdom was there like the end of last year like 136 miles an hour And I don't know what you can't really see because it's quite small But sadly just doesn't have any perforation because it gets to minus 50 C So that would freeze and the dish would stop working And but it's just a big kite that you put on a mountain and then it gets like 130 man-hour winds and stuff gets blown away And and and this was really hard to work with This this project worked great we could take pictures at mountains we did live demos the Bird was never seen again. We have no idea what happened to it But the camera took quite a good number of pictures of Heather You'd if you don't know Heather it all looks the same, but yeah, so we did this It was it was great fun to do a nice piece of engineering Doing this we did a lot of Satellite work and we've done satellite work in the past We have a long history of doing it and we started looking at how video applications worked over a satellite links So satellite links are different than normal links because you're talking to something way up in space You have round trip times of about 750 milliseconds So anything you do is going to see a massive delay and this software that's being written for the internet just isn't prepared for this There are bugs in Firefox where you can't use a satellite link that we fixed but Just having a strange set of links gives you strange circumstances Along with satellite work. We do a lot of TCP TCP congestion control stuff and this is where I start to get involved And a normal TCP connection has these states that are all time-based We go through slow start we end up in a steady state and any loss We see is going to cause a big problem to our time Slow start is a exponential growth phase for Oh picture somewhere So start is an exponential growth phase and on a satellite link It's being driven by acts on an RTT So when you have a loss down and you have to slow start again up to the slow start threshold You spend a lot of time So when you try and browse the web over a satellite link and you have some loss You have elements not load and things get really messed up and it's very hard to keep track of And at this time people just sort of decide to do TCP video over HTTP So instead of using live protocols that can adapt to loss Netflix and everyone decided that we will use TCP over HTTP because it always works it gets you firewalls and that's not a problem This would be really great But as the research community saw very quickly the HTTP video is very awkward There's a paper title that I'll never forget confused timid and unstable About the congestion response for YouTube and Netflix as soon as they see loss in the network They go. Oh, we'll slow down. This is this doesn't work it or You'll request the manifest over HTTP which just describes where the Next chunk of segments are and you'll download one of these segments and based on the amount of time it takes to get with segment You can decide whether or not to change rates so you could have adaptive video bit rates and And the segments of times so that they're not going to use the entire playback time so that you can keep a buffer rolling Hello The This leads to very bursty traffic and when we look at this HTTP traffic over Satellite links we we want to take as much as we can in a chunk So we end up with long periods where our TCP connection isn't doing anything and TCP is defined to close down there because we have a We have a congestion window that Yeah, so we have a congestion window that describes this and the congestion window was just a guess over the capable a guess about the capability of the network When we enter a period where we're not sending this guest gets worse and worse so We did work on something called new CWV new CWV is an adaptation for rate limited traffic Rate limited traffic is when the application is trying to send less than the network can provide And new CWV enhances something called congestion window validation, which is an older RFC And we provide a new method for guessing how much is in the pipe I got involved in this in 2014 the crazy social scientists We had the project went to India instead of working and I was a bit of a loss of what to do We had PhD students and one of my colleagues Rafa Losecchi had been working on this and he had an implementation in NS2 We done simulation in the lab. We had an implementation for Linux There's an issue in new CWV that both Linux and FreeBSD have pluggable congestion control But new CWV needs to do this estimation outside of the congestion control mechanisms so that we've not implemented something that is only Applicable for new Reno or cubic so that we can do it below the pluggable layer Of course, nobody wants to mess with the TCP stack like this. So it's very hard to deploy So I did this in meditation 2014. I pushed out publicly. I followed the drafts Right now the bug tracker says this but but who knows I Don't know what's next here and is doing a lot of work on the TCP stack There's there's a one problem with this in that new CWV needs packet pacing to really get a scene benefit and FreeBSD Doesn't have packet pacing in its network stack yet soon I hear but Randall at Netflix said this wasn't a problem because they had Vendor drivers that would do pacing for them so they could take new CWV We start talking about 2015 2017. This is only a month ago. So maybe maybe we'll see something soon so this is really just Context for how hard it is to do things in the internet We're trying to deploy a change to congestion control that will give benefit to most people Google Netflix Facebook can do whatever they want. They have all this equipment They can run the run hardware. They can run on private networks. They don't need these changes They can pay people to do it But anybody who's going to compete with them in the future needs these standardized changes And if we figure out how to do these changes, we should be able to deploy them and get them going But it's so hard to get us to move because the ITF doesn't want to do TCP changes if you want to change the Value of a field in an IP protocol.  It's gonna take forever to get to the ITF No one will deploy in their networks and then it might not work because it just might not work This happened with ECN on the internet to like six years to get to the point where we decided we need And ECN fall back and now we're starting to see ECM marks coming through the network. I I only have the slugs. I think it's hilarious There's someone on Twitter tweeted this and if you press really hard you can get more packets So the the changes we're proposing with the neat project come from a couple of core issues One of them is trying to do this, but a lot of these problems come from how programmers see the access to the network rather than the Reality we have, you know Someone connects to a router and it goes through the cloud and that you get traffic at the other end and it works great And it's all fine But in real life, there's loads of stuff in the middle that's playing with your traffic that doesn't It has its own agenda for what it wants to do We have corporate proxies that want to break down TLS so they can see what you're doing People injecting ads firewalls that not necessarily misconfigured, but configured in a naive way where we'll allow TCP port 8443 UDP port 53. Nobody uses anything else, right? But that just completely stops any deployment of new protocols And of course there's a lot of assumptions about how we get onto the network in the past when we designed TCP it was for a very limited set of network access Technologies and the network tech that the network technologies were very homogenous. They were very similar 56k dial-up link is going to be similar for somebody else's I mean allowing for terrible phone lines It's going to be very similar, but mobile technology is like 2g 3g 4g you see wild spikes in latency you see wild spikes in bandwidth you see random loss and The algorithms we have are designed to treat loss as a sign of congestion where we can stop sending But everyone will know that they've been on their phone and The car moves four meters and you get a different model of what the network does because the trees in the way anymore And everything works much better And then on top of this we have the socket API and it's crap your nodding. It's great. All right some code on Windows and So the socket API has done very well for the last 35 years longer everything in the internet is now changed and it's different, but The access we have is okay. The issue really is that it doesn't offer Any way to move away from it and there's no way to move transport protocols if you wanted to do something with like this series of calls that You had two interfaces and you needed to choose between them you have to spend a lot of time right? Okay, so why bother? Why not move? everything into user space why not and You just do it on top of UDP and we'll push it across the network and it'll all work fine And this is this is happening a lot SETP which is developed by Michael Tuxen in free BSD offers a user space implementation that you can run over anything You can get UDP socket on and this is what's being rolled out in web browsers right now So this is a new transport protocol on the internet and it's it's running in in user space and it it works And this is what quick tries to do so quick as a quick from Google is a Transport protocol that sits under HTTP to And it offers nice reliable streams and you don't have head of line blocking between streams and has some cool crypto stuff But it's been developed by Google We're three years since it was announced and we have one implementation The the standards bodies moving very slowly they met last week It's not really getting anywhere And we have like Facebook push the draft last year about trying to do this generalized for UDP transport So they can build stuff. They don't tell anybody about but we have the same problem where big players can do this. It's fine like They can Will and do whatever they want because they have loads of money But nobody else gets to take advantage of this and the openness of the internet and the web It will really suffer if we do this and there's also TCP over UDP, which is just raw insanity and you shouldn't do it. So I Work on this It's quite complicated This is the picture we sent to the EU last year Yeah, and don't tell them but we're not going to do any of this we have a We have a new API for accessing the network it's Event driven it's built on top of Libu V If you've used Libu V that you know the networking stuff isn't great So we have a nice consistent API for doing that And we have a system for building and integrating new transport protocols that can run over the internet So we can run this completely directionally over completely directly over the sockets you have So we can run this over you just if you just have a system with easy P and UDP need more run over this and You'll get some benefits, but not all of them We can run on top of transports in user space So we can take advantage of the user space SDP library and if quick becomes a real transport protocol That's usable then we can just plug it into the system because we've built an extensible model for doing this and We have some things that allow us to apply magic to how we create connections Over here. We have just on the far right We have two information bases that capture stuff about the network and this is all mediated through a policy manager Policy manager allows you to direct at a high level what you want from your transport stream and the biggest thing we've implemented right now is fallback and homing over STP and TCP So you can say at a high level that you want a reliable ordered stream and the policy manager can use information we've captured about previous connections your interfaces Whatever else you might have SDN orchestrators in the network and we can do selection to find the best some vies of best transport protocol that is available and is going to work over IPv4 IPv6 TCP SCTP we have this you do one call we get all this for free Applications are a bit smaller. They look like this This one has the building and and Applications work through the API directly into the new user module user modules made of five pieces We have a framework we have the selection come we have selection components that Allow us to operate independent of transport protocol itself We have the policy system we have Transport components themselves. So we have quite a nice abstract API for this We have an abstraction on top of security protocols so with needs by setting one flag in a policy and providing some Certs you can get TLS or DTLS for free with a nice API. There's there's no dealing with the best SL and then we Integrate with the network itself Not only can we gather information from other connections that happen in the global system But we can gather information from things you have in the network So the the characteristic information base at the bottom here Is actually just a set of JSON files on disk that describe The highest speeds you've got on an interface the successful selection choices on an interface But it can be fed in from other places so we can look up MIBS and we can figure out what TCP congestion control algorithms You have and then provide that for selection from there Or we could integrate with an SDN Controller on your network and the SDN controller can then say I can create stuff for you if you need it Like we can we can make a new interface for you and it will work really well and we have all of this implemented now we have a We have a demo for one of our partners EMC which does Flow selection between small flows and big flows by specifying a file size You say you have a small file and you get the normal 10 megabit link with low latency specify a high file size and you get given a QoS mark that you set and then you get your traffic directed over a Higher latency bit higher bandwidth link and we're showing this to the EU in May So we have demos for this working Applications are very simple. So the architecture picture is really big and complicated, but it really boils down to almost nothing at all our Connection state is muted inside a context and we have one context per thread. We're working on this right now the With this we can then create floats. We have one single primitive for accessing the network and Application can choose its properties it wants to get for policy that the properties here or as a bit mask Which is what we had maybe a year ago. We now have properties defined as Jason so you can build more complicated things Set up some callbacks And then you do an open and you do an open and neat just handles everything else for you And this is what it looks like. This is how it hooks in further you get your events and you do reads and writes There are there are obviously issues between datagrams stream protocols But we are an active research project. So we're we're trying to resolve all of this So you get a nice API, but this is as complicated as we want things to be But you set the property for security you get DT less and it works You don't have to figure out your cypher suites or your trust chain. We find the most sensible thing to do here You you want a transfer protocol. It's reliable. We give you reliable transfer protocol and you just do reads and writes against it As after the last talk I just gave about the server side if you swap out the open for an accept the code is exactly the same Obviously that the flow semantics are a bit different because you get given flows instead of having a flow But it's all the same you just get the unconnected event and the code can be kept very very simple And because we're in a new project we have commercial partners One of our commercial partners is emcee Another one is Mozilla. So I spent all week in Plenary and Mozilla in Paris And we're trying right now for our debt for our demo sessions the EU in May to have Firefox doing selection between sctp and TCP and For a connection setup. We have this running on free BSD if anybody really cares They can bug Michael Tuxen and he he'll say go away or come back in a week What we get from this is is incredible though sctp if you if you don't know you can have a look at it, but it offers multi-homing and multi-path So the demo we have is a file download through HTTP and if you get TCP on your network You get a normal file download if you get sctp on your network, and you have multiple interfaces You get multi-path we do cmt so we can share the connections from the application you get twice the bandwidth I think that's awesome Someone's promised it to the EU so Yeah and Linux And we're developing all this on top of free BSD So this is the main impetus for the talk is that there's nothing free BSD specific in any of this We could do this on any platform It turns out because the sctp stack runs on free BSD It's the best place to run it because they have we have sensible networking and it's all easy and things compile properly But we do continuous integration on all the platforms we support if anybody can find a Windows developer We would love one, but I don't know the other much side And we have builds right now build bots that you can find through our github and running on arm free BSD heads stable net BSD OS 10 and you want to I Bet you was val grinded the field Yeah, and we need you projects. So we're very open all of the All of the research we're doing is open access and being made available as soon as we can all of the architecture and specifications We have we're releasing as soon as we have them available So if you want to read a 60 page document about why and how we'll stick with all together we have it not interesting though And all of the development is happening in real-time available. We have a public github. We'll take patches from anyone We really want patches from somebody If you feel like fixing our documentation then then we're doing great Yeah They know they want us to show that we have convinced other people to use this Yeah, so I Don't know how you measure this and Yeah, so all the codes online you can go and have a look it's really easy to check out very few dependencies There are examples for how to drive everything If you have some networking problem that you really want to solve with protocols But you can't trust the network to be reliable. This won't this will work for it We are a year into development. So the things are a bit janky Later, we're gonna do some bindings to Python and maybe go so that you can access this through say in our languages And you can use everything And but it's all there Yeah, and that's me. I have loads of time for questions Can I just repeat that source recorded I think this is amazing. I think we should be key noted at live at large Unix conferences What what's the bit you're having problems with the repel Red No, no, no, we try to avoid threads because there anything's too complicated Yeah Yeah Yeah No, I'm aware of I don't So the question is if we have issues with thread pools on LibuV and I haven't I haven't seen any traffic in the issues from this I Think we'll get more issues as people try and do more but we have Firefox running on this right now. So Firefox is a really big thing And it's really really stressed the code we've written it's made it. It's showed loads of bugs. It's been great to do We sit found loads of issues It would be good to know It would be good to have bigger workloads go through we did some performance stuff and we managed to push push six gigabit through it So it's okay as a networking library. There's no issue there They haven't been started if you would like to start it So the problem right now is we don't have a stable API So even the example programs we have keep breaking and you don't want to build on top of that Especially if you've got to deal with different languages I'm hoping that in the next six months. We'll have something stable enough that The demos we're building don't keep breaking and I think the Firefox work we've done is going to force that to happen because Daniels Steinberg the the curl developer works for Mozilla for us on this and he's very annoyed every time we change the API so I Think we're we're gonna have to approach this we spent a lot of time So that so the four partners we have we have a tiny Norwegian company called Sellaway We have EMC Mozilla and Cisco and Cisco are very interested in being able to abstractly deal with names and do Stuff like connect to a name rather than a service At some point the people from you I owe wanted to get rid of port numbers. We top them down If you wanted to build something on top of the same networking library that resolved the networking issue You could definitely do it If we have a good DNS library integrated and we have great DNS But if you had a a more abstract system, I think this would be a nice place to hook into Okay, cool. Thank you. Oh I have heard of this. Yeah, so that Rena protocol stack. Yeah, I was asked this when I give us talk last year somewhere else Yeah, there's there's tons of work in this space as well. This isn't we're not unique in any way There's like five or six different projects that are different levels People will have seen Brian Trammels post sockets draft that picked such a better name than we did Yeah, so there's there are lots of efforts trying to try to fix this API because this is now being seen as a stumbling block Okay. Thank you very much