Oh, we're ready. Sorry. Yep. Here we are. We're going live. And we are live. Hey, good morning, everybody. GTFOs are talking about these games. You don't tell me what to do. Here we are. We got plenty of viewers in already. So I see no need to just to dilly-dally. Let's get right into it. So it happens when you schedule ahead. I know, right? Look at me. Look at me. All right. So what's up, everybody? Welcome back to For The Minions. This is a weekly live stream now that we do that covers all the Paragon remakes and ethereal. This week, we're going to be talking about overprime release, the Wraith video, Wraith gameplay video. Predecessor had more jump hat animations and like a Chimera teaser. Fault is back from Gamescom and ethereal released all of the BFX, new updated BFX for Talos. And they look a lot better than than his old stuff. I'm your host, the man goose, joining me. Not as always jelly might pop in later, but he might be a little bit late. But joining me usually, as always now, is the Viking Jedi. How are you doing? I'm doing so good. I feel like it's as as always at this point. But no, no, it's been a great week. Lots of cool content. So I'm excited to talk about it. It does seem like the heavy part is still coming from from overprime, but still some neat stuff coming from the other guys. So I'm excited to jump into it and talk about it. And coming with us again this week is luckily for us is Dapper. Welcome back, Dapper. How are you doing, brother? What's going been going on in your world this week? Pleasure, pleasure to be here, everybody. And not much has changed, but not much is going to be changing. Considering I'm waiting for all of these games. So just the just the news that's coming in between and looking a little too deep into some of it, just to get an idea of what to expect. And another thing we're going to be talking about this week, Nerd Slayer, if you guys have never watched the Death of a Game series on Nerd Slayer does, they're amazing. He did want a Paragon, but there was one recently on Heroes of New Earth and I felt that it really paralleled what's happening in our in our little Paragon remake world right now. So we're going to get in and talk about that a little bit after we're done with the updates. But speaking of the updates, let me let me throw out some greetings here. We got Ian McFarland, Rich J, Lionheart official, Clorox, TV, Sixo wavy, Joshua Van Noctis, Oda and who else did I miss? We got Soul Reaper in here as well. And Dr. Ruba from the Speaking of the Omega team. So let's but we're going to start off probably with overprime this time around. So the big news, the biggest news, there was a lot of news coming out of overprime this week. But probably the biggest thing was this Wraith video. We got to see a lot of Wraith gameplay. And I know you were looking forward to this, Dapper. What did you think of this entire video? So when it came to this Wraith video, it showed us a lot. And yet it showed us absolutely nothing at all at the same time, which is a little unfortunate. But it mainly showed this person's ability to use that right click that snipe in those long distance shots. That's the biggest thing it really showed us there. I mean, overall, I'm happy to see that he's in the game. I'm happy that he's still at least in this iteration of the game had the team, the AOE Invis, I got to look at some of the numbers in that and was surprised by those numbers at level one. The Invis last eight seconds, level two, 12. And I think at three, it's going to be 16, which is a long time for a team-wide ultimate. Yeah, you could you could tell it was still buggy. But I'm happy to see that they're at least acknowledging. And this probably shows that he'll be in early access because otherwise why show a character in gameplay and then not have them for early access. So first first game to not only have him here, but also seemingly be playable, which is going to be nice. What did you think, Mike and Jedda? I mean, I do have a very similar take. I ended up because, like Dapper is mentioning, the gameplay itself of centered centered around Wraith was OK. Like it was fine. I actually ended up enjoying the fact that in this video, unlike their previous video, we did get to see a lot more of the map and a lot more of the world. And so seeing where that has already moved was pretty exciting for me. But just speaking on Wraith as alone alone, I didn't play Wraith or get to play with him in the Paragon Day, so I'm not really familiar with his kit. But from what I've been able to gather, other than we don't still know what is he does because he never clicks that button in this video. The rest of his kit is basically the same. And and I think that's OK. I think the biggest thing that I've learned from community feedback is that his ultimate was in Paragon Days, always felt a little bit underwhelming that it was hard to, especially like in solo queue environments, really coordinate with your team to be able to utilize his ultimate the most efficiently. I do think now that more modern MOBAs have had a chance to kind of play with invisibility, that there might be some more strategies around that that can make it really powerful because I think vision in MOBAs, especially really strategic MOBAs, is one of the strongest tools. And so being able to deny that in an organized gameplay team wide for eight seconds at level one is pretty massive. Like you can really dominate setups. You can go and peek around corners really, you know, and see a are they lying in wait and springing a trap on us? You know, like and I think from an 80 carry position, it gives a lot of survivability, right? Like you can kind of peek your head into lanes, maybe even set up like a Sassentile roaming. So from that perspective, I think it's exciting.  I was actually a little disappointed. The animation for the right click didn't really seem as vibrant as a lot of the other overprime abilities typically do. It just kind of felt a little lackluster from that perspective. But again, going back to just getting to see a little bit more like so that the two portals in the middle in the jungle, we got to see him go through that portal and pop up on the other side. We got to see a lot more of the jungle area itself.  Camps look a lot easier to get to. So we didn't really see that same kind of style. I felt like in in the previous video this time, even though we were watching a jungler, he was always in mid. So it was harder. I feel like you have been beating up that poor thing. I don't know who who was piloting that champion.  So no, it was it was really cool. So I know I've been monologuing here a little bit, but it was really neat to see a little bit more of the world. I think my favorite shot was actually when he was in base and he was running back through mid lane and you get this beautiful picture of the base, you know, when it's all white and glistening and pretty.  And it's like nature trying to take back, you know, the map from and I thought that was pretty neat. And even in the video as we're watching, you can kind of see the vines crawling on the walls. And I don't know, it looks very lived in. And I thought that was that was pretty cool.  And then it landed and it like the pose itself wasn't a problem. It's the way that he ended up landing. It looked really stuttery and awkward. I'm sure they'll fix that of predecessor releasing your animations and then looking 100% smooth. It all very janky like he hits, stops and then goes. That did not look very good. No, the main thing I was really looking for in this video was his E. I wanted to see the rewind in action. And with how much of a stomp this game was, you don't really know if the E just wasn't working so they didn't want to show it off or he just didn't need to use it because like I didn't really see an opportunity where I would have needed to press E maybe on the rampage towards the end where he blinks to catch up with the rampage. But yeah, like he doesn't press the E once and one time. And and Rewind is such an iconic ability for Wraith. And I want to see him use that. He did use the the ward through his ward out there, which I think is pretty good.  Like he uses it once for him and Howie, but him and Howie would have gotten that kill if there were envies or not. Right. And like, I don't know, his ultimate in Paragon seemed like such a great idea and it would be so great in like a competitive environment. But it just never worked out that way. It was almost always just used as an escape as ultimate. Yeah, there's going to be a lot that can be done with the ultimate. That'll come with time. We don't know how they're going to rework its mechanics. There was actually a glitch in this video. I took it as a glitch where because he was invisible in the bush when he did his ultimate and he comes out of the bush, he's visible to us, but he still has that buff of being invisible on the left side of his screen. So that that glitch, you know, hopefully they fixed it. But as as for the the biggest time when I thought that he could have used it, but didn't is when he was fighting 2v1 versus the Revenant and the Countess. And the Countess is just sitting there autoing and using the abilities. If any time that would have been the time to E when the Countess is on you. And what is interesting is the fact that if you actually look back at the footage, you see this person level up the E. Yeah, it's second. Yeah, yeah. It's the second thing they level, but they never use it. And you know, that goes to was it just not working? Did they not are they not sure what they want to do with it? You know, who knows? See, I was kind of leaning more towards like what Mingus was thinking is because if you are a tester, right, which we know this guy is, right, he's one of the top testers. So he wouldn't be leveling it if it wasn't going to be usable, right? So I think it was usable, but maybe as an oversight, they just didn't find a use or a situation where he wanted to click it, right? And that that could have just been something over Prime Miss. Like, hey, we're wanting to showcase his kit, but we didn't actually showcase this whole kit. I don't know. It is what it is, I guess. But yeah, it was a bit underwhelming from that perspective of actually showing off his kit. He just didn't look as as flashy as I think is the other carries. And I kind of agree with with Ruba's point that like in Paragon, he was considered, you know, a carry with support abilities, which I still think has a place, right? Like there are there are other mobs that managed to walk that line, but it's really hard and and and and from a player perspective, a lot of times, unless it's in like a really like, again, very competitive environment, it's boring and so people won't play. Why would you play a support carry when you could play Twin Blast or you can play, you know, well, literally any of the other carries and other people who probably shouldn't be played carry are still played carry because they're more fun than him. Other than his right click, I just don't see any fun aspects to his kit when I can do almost the same thing with Sparrow. I can land right clicks with her, which are snipes. I can have CC.  So I just it wasn't impressed overall with Wraith. I just don't feel like he fits a niche well enough to be his own champion. I kind of disagree. I like playing him as carry way more than I like playing any other carry in Paragon. Interesting. Why, though? I usually played a mid lane, though. I did normally play a mid lane. But if I was going to have to carry, I would like Wraith. But why? What was it? What was it about him that makes him different fun? And the rewind, too, is just amazing. It was not being a carry and having a ward on demand that just pings everything was was amazing to have. And just in the snipe and it was it was doing this in the in the video, his snipe refunds the mana cost and and resets the cooldown whenever you kill a minion with it. So it was awesome at clearing waves because it did so much damage and you could poke people through walls. I don't know. He was just by far my favorite of the actual interest to play as an ADC. I think I think he's one of the easier solo queues because he can fill his own support role if need be. If you if you're solo queuing and you don't have faith in your support for whatever reason, you get your own personal wards. You get a personal CC in that rewind and you get a long range snipe. Plus, you need to get out. You've got your own disengage with the ultimate. Like he fills that solo queue role really well. But if you have people to play with, he might not feel the greatest. As for his ward, though, we see it in the game. I don't actually think it's a you throw it out there and then it just reveals the area like a war that would normally happen. What I viewed it as was a proximity alarm more something you place on a wall and if someone walks by it, it then reveals it because the first time we see it is in the deer pit and he sticks it to a wall specifically. So I think he was actually trying to make it over the wall. It just got stuck to the wall. It looked like he tried to jump and throw it over to be honest. And it got stuck to the wall. Exactly. And you can see the radius of it is. And it's actually pretty small. So it's not some mass reveal. No, it's not meant to replace a ward, right? It's meant to just create a small pocket of vision for free, right? As part of an ability.  Yeah, so which is very, very cheap for free vision, basically. So, you know, his kit did in this video, it definitely makes it feel underwhelming because there's no special effect with this snipe. Like they could have had like blue rings come out the end of the gun. Have the beam be a little bit more like an actual beam instead of just a longer range gunshot. But everything we need to keep in mind here for everybody is that this footage is from like late June or early July. So we don't know if they've changed their visual updates for the characters. I think that was actually something that's either in development or was finished recently was character effects because stuff like this is definitely, you know, not not on par with what I wanted from Wraith. But I'm still interested to try him out. I find it funny that this Wraith video showed more for how he did it for Wraith. I think it showed more for almost everybody except for him.  I mean, I can't wait to try him. First of all, I had the most fun playing the carry champions in Over Prime. So I'm excited either way. They just didn't I think they could have done. And this is probably us being a little bit harsh because Over Prime has for the most part done a really good job of showcasing things. This is the first time I feel like they showcase something that I wasn't immediately like, wow, great job, guys. Because like even like I said, his flying animation from base was a little bit weird. The, you know, his visual clarity on what he was doing was a little weird. We didn't get to see all of his abilities in action. So that's a little bit weird. So it just like kind of kept going like weird, weird, weird. And now I was still happy to see stuff and get more information. But we're also probably of the audience. It's going to really dive deeper into this kind of stuff. I think if you're like a way more casual, you know, paying attention to these types of things, this would probably leave you a little bit lackluster. So I don't I wouldn't consider it a full win. I think it's fine. It doesn't hurt them by any means, but it definitely doesn't like increase their stock in this market in any way, shape or form through this video. Not that adding rate, it wouldn't increase their stock. Just this video doesn't do it automatically. Anybody who's already a fan of Wraith is going to be stoked that he's in the game anyway, regardless of what kit they showed. Yeah, the showcase doesn't showcase much. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Got folks, got something. I don't know what happened, but I hope you get better. I saw that. That was nuts. Yeah, he went through the ringer. Apparently skydiving without a parachute or something. Damn. Cat, Sarah is actually in over prime right now. We actually saw that in the prior video with Wukong, not Wukong. God, I saw you reading Sirotha and Wukong. No, in the Chimera video. Yeah, you can actually see Sarah running around. No, no, no. We have not seen anything on Wukong besides art years ago. But yeah, Sirotha's already been shown as in the testing phase, at least, but. Yeah. And I was able to notice that this is not the same gameplay as Chimera because there's no Chimera on this team. So different game. Yeah, I do think it's got to be pretty close, though, because more I would lean more towards July, just because of the updates that they put into the map since and one of their things was was more deep into July. And I know the Chimera was also just as much in the same region of time around around the same time. Yeah, so I know we all know, right, that the footage is probably, you know, this is still slightly outdated. But I do think that this is still fairly recent. It's not as as as old as I think that they implied that it might be to give themselves some space. But yeah, it was cool. Like I said, so right now, at least I'm live for the folks are about to go show him going through the portal, going into the pit. Oh, that was something else that I wanted to talk about. I feel like it's a bit of a bummer that we haven't seen from over Prime is in both of these gameplays. They have not taken the neutral objective of prime. And we have not seen what it looks like to end a game with the main end game mechanic. And again, yeah, the game ending, you know, buff or or monster or whatever they end up turning it into because in the test, right, it was a, you know, NPC that landed in the mid lane and just started destroying everything. So I'm wondering if that's because it's still something that working on. But it did give me a little bit of hope with the Teons. Teons seem to be pretty effective in this gameplay. Like they were really pushed in towers. Yeah, not the same way that I think through. Yeah, not the same way that fault does and predecessor might, right? We I mean, I know through the testing that their minions meant a lot more than than over Prime did. So we I would assume that they're still going to be pretty relevant. And that's a main mechanic is creating wave states that are important and in a MOBA, but over Prime didn't have that in the test. So it was exciting for me as a strategic mind to see that it seemed like seemed like that Teons mattered a bit more this time. So hey, welcome. Jelly beans. Perfect. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. We are talking about over Prime and how the neutral objective of Guardian was not shown and how Teons seem more effective. And I was about to answer that. But welcome. Welcome. Welcome. I'm happy to be happy to be here, guys. Glad I could make it. Glad you can make it too. Yeah, but the reason we don't see Guardian is because Guardian, the big Guardian shows about 20 minutes now compared to seven minutes during CBT2. So the reason we never saw anyone take it is because he wasn't never around by the time the games ended. So they would have they would have to stall out the game to then go take that, which is not something that they seemingly wanted to do, or at least in these game plays as for the Teons. One thing that I don't know how many people noticed during CBT2 and it seems like they buffed it a little bit here. When you take the deer, when you take spirit, it buffs your Teons and nerfs the enemy towers. So Teons can start pushing their own waves if you get deer because it's more than just a permanent buff to you, which I think is something that not a lot of people realized during CBT2 and is a thing shown during these games.  Yeah, you see the tower going down and the Teons glowing. Right. But it's it's a timed buff. It's only I think it's all and I think it's only for like two minutes. I think it was that right. So I wasn't that I think it's like a minute. Oh, maybe it was either way. That's enough to set a wave, though. One, maybe one wave. And that was the thing. I think I mean, me and Jelly were probably the harshest on this, but we also spent a lot of time trying to figure out if that was something that was a viable strategy during CBT. And I think that was my one of my biggest critiques was that, you know, from a MOBA standpoint, from a strategy standpoint, I don't always want to win games because I'm just more mechanically gifted than you. I'm almost 40 guys. I'm not going to be more mechanically gifted than a lot of people who are playing this game, but I might be able to out chest some people in this game and minions and controlling minions and controlling neutral objectives and being smart around the map was something that always made me feel like I still had a chance in MOBAs. And I was a bit disappointed despite all the fun that I had in over prime that you couldn't do that with Teons. The Teons that even with the buffs, you could maybe set up a couple waves. But with how powerful the the champions would get, you could clear out a push and a few abilities for some. Like, I mean, Gideon is sitting in lane would just clear out any major push you were able to put together. And so it felt like a lot of times you the only way you could end game was either by just hard winning early so they couldn't fight you and you just push down the lane and win or you had to get the buff, which obviously now is unavailable for a little bit longer. So if they've updated Teons and they made them a little bit more important, which it seemed like in this video that they were. And again, I would love your guys's insight on it. But it makes me more excited that they might have added that extra strategy into the game, which was something they said they wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, it's all just speculation at this point. And I'm sure we'll figure it out once they have more CBTs. Let's move on from this Wraith video. Something small they had was another Narbash teaser video like they've been doing like the old school Paragon teaser. So if you guys haven't checked that out, you can go to Overprime's YouTube or whatever social media you want. And I'm sure you could find that video if you want to watch it. Now, the other big thing that we had from Overprime, though, was they had a this was an article that was completely in Korean. I had the Google translated to English, but they had an in-house tournament. Um, not just among Team Soul Eve, but among all the Netmarble employees, like they had like 18 teams or something like that competing in an overprime tournament internally. And the the here's the here's the thing I want to talk about the most. The winners of the tournament all got Nintendo switches and like the second place got like Nintendo Switch games. Like, does that mean anything? Do you think that maybe Overprime might be coming to the old Nintendo Switch?  I I would love to throw this one first to Jelly because I also want to get jelly's like like very quick because I know we're wanting to move on by his quick impression of the Wraith video because we didn't get a chance to hear from him. And I know the the jelly stands and jelly Sims would probably like to hear his idea. So can you can you dive into that a little bit as well as the as the tournament with the switches? So for the Wraith video, I think overall it's going to be cool to have Wraith back when he uses his E, I'll be more impressed. His ultimate, I'm a little sad that his ultimate still seems as lackluster as ever. That's just kind of one of those abilities that on paper sounds better than it is in in the game. There are better carries with better ultimate abilities. Overall, I think it was good. The map did look slightly updated from the Chimera video, even if just a little bit, which I thought was super cool. But then the tournament, super cool that they're doing in-house tournaments already. I think that's fantastic. And the big thing that was on that is they did pick bands actually during the tournament, which I did not know that. Yeah, in the turn in the little thing, when you translate it, it says that after the pick band phase. So theoretically, that means they've got enough to be able to do some form of pick band like we talked about last week. That's awesome. He's super, super cool. Mm hmm. And it's going to be a different range right away. Yeah. The Switch console is so mega popular. It's true. It's one of those like I could see them coming to Switch, but if they just gave out switches as a prize, it wouldn't surprise me by itself. That's not the hot take we want. They're going to Switch and it's going to be on early access. And I'll leave it to Mangoes. Mangoes already started to be called the six months ago. I got to be the voice of reason on this one. It's definitely not going to be on Switch in early access. I think it's going to be early access than console, which I think is a little different from what we heard about a year ago. But sure, you mean it's only going to switch first, then going to PC. See, now, these are the things you imagine. There we go. That's a clickbait right there. Overprime is going to switch first. Question marks, exclamation. Is this game playing with Switch? Oh, my God. Make sure you're right. Maybe you play. Oh, my God, I've been. I've been doing clickbait thumbnails for fun. So Rich, Rich also brings up a good point.  Do you think that there's a chance that overprime ends up on mobile? It's not unheard of for for for MOBAs at this point to be on mobile. I mean, Wild Rift is a thing. Yeah, we talked about it on here before.  I don't see why you can't have the third person environment on a mobile game. Yeah. And luckily, most of this game is very, you know, as much detail as it is, it's also very simplistic, you know, a lot of characters aren't too terribly detailed. Items are very we haven't seen the new icons, but they're easy to pick up. It's simple enough that you could port it into either Switch or mobile, though it would probably be like three years from now. But it could be done. Yeah, it definitely won't be soon. And no, I don't know. Ruba also brings up a good point. Obviously, he's a guy in the know. He says it takes about a year to convert a PC game to Switch, fully including optimization, which sounds about right, to be honest, especially Switch, because their their kit is is totally different than the other two big consoles, right? Like it's we don't know what they've been doing in the background. We don't. That's true. That's fair. What did we figure out after the last one, Mingus, it's been eight months since they showed us the PS5 development.  Exactly. And so it easily could have been the last year or it's been in development for six months, whatever it is for them. It's so crazy in my mind that it's so crazy in my mind that over prime, basically overhauled a majority of the map to give us new assets on it. Restructure its jungle, restructure like how even like the sides of lanes works. And one thing that I noticed in this video that I didn't notice in the Ky video was that if you actually see Wraith walking down Duolane, you can see where prime pit where you're supposed to dunk normally is.  You can't go into that pit early. I was not paying attention. I'm going to look for it while we're talking more because it's crazy. Yeah. That's one thing that I noticed because, you know, Chimera is now ever really walking down Duolane. So seeing that there made me think like it might open up once a team gets orb or after 20 minutes, who knows? But it doesn't make sense, right? That this, because I know there was probably, it wasn't often.  Right. So maybe closing it off early on doesn't hurt necessarily. Yeah, which makes sense. Sorry, I'm laughing at chat, dude. They're just, they're on one today, man. I'm, I think it's the three day weekend or something. You know, people are really popping off in chat right now. I see you guys. Here's the wall, by the way, if you look to the left. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yep. It is completely walled off there. That's wild. That's nuts. Yep. Yeah. I pay attention to these videos to the best of my abilities and I try. I mean, I thought I was paying attention, but that wasn't something I was looking for. So that's a really good insight. Cause I, cause looking back on it, Duncan was one of my favorite mechanics cause it's just so satisfying, especially, especially when you can steal it from the opponent. But I was like, huh, I wonder how they look now with the new updated graphics. And then when I saw that it was walled off, I was like, wait, hold on, isn't it supposed to be right there than I had to do a couple like back and forth? Like am I just missing it? Is it like, is it thinner now? Is it more of an alleyway? No, it's just walled off right there early on. So I'm curious to see how that opens up. Yeah, we're also getting like a really good view right now of the jungle and how they changed it and stuff like that, which I think is great. Another thing, I really, really hope that they didn't wall it off because they're removing prime dunk. No, no, they're not. No, that and sprinting are the two things they said that they're putting effort into making sure that works because even on the mini because even on the mini map, you can still see those places do exist. And with an overhaul of the map, you wouldn't keep that part of the mini map, but I agree. I get what you're saying. We want to tinfoil hat theories. There you go. Yeah, you know, that's a good thing. I hope that they don't. But God, no, that's a spicy take. That's a spicy take. Yes, because we got to see it a little bit more this time. See this and see him take the sideline buff. I think he's about to do it right now.  But they move the sideline buff. They kind of put it in its own little section where the portal was and then put the portal closer to lane. I'm curious how that's going to with the pacing of the game. Like now we have essentially two sets of portals, although the middle portals seem to be activatable and then turn off somehow. We still don't know a lot about how that mechanic, but the side portals are still there. It looks like during the whole game, we don't know how often they can be used and all that stuff. But I always liked the portal thing. And I know Jelly loved the portal thing because just made ganks and rotations a lot quicker and smoother for him. What are you guys thinking about how they moved the buff and the portals? Any thoughts? Don't care. So from a mechanical standpoint, from what I had noticed, we didn't ever see a true timer on the portal, but the top number during CBT was the timer on when the next charge was up. So it seems like each set of portals only has one charge. That means, yeah, so that's why it was one with a zero on top because the timer wasn't counting down. And there was a singular one when he takes the jungle portal from Spirit to Guardian. He takes that one charge. There's a delay so you can see that it hits zero. And then he teleports. It seems teleporting was a little bit delayed in this because even later, we see him use the Blink Stone and there's a delay between when he actually teleports. But his ping is awful in this video, apparently. Kind of. But the portal seemed to be a one charge per pair. And we never got to see a countdown, but it's on a countdown timer on when it switches. But as for moving the buffs, I think they did that because it's easier to see when the opponent's taking the buff and you have to actually commit to leaving the lane fully because sometimes the support could be in that little valley that's right there. Well, the ADC sits up top and then just takes the last hit. So this means it's more of a commitment to go out of your way to go get that. I agree with that take two. I think it'll also a little bit stop your jungler from taking it because there are definitely times where I just like, I just went through the portal. Let me just pick up this side buff here and go on my merry way. I mean, we have laners always taking your jungle camps. I mean, I guess it's fair, right? Yeah, exactly. Dude, it's just comparable assets right there. They're currently in the video. We're getting to see something. And I know I told this to Jelly for sure. But I love the way this looks right here. I don't remember looking this vibrant in the art we called it the black buff during testing, but I don't remember it looking this vibrant and the river or whatever just creek or what it just looks so beautiful to me. I was so stoked to see that in particular. I thought that looked looks amazing. Anyway, we've been talking about this for a long time. Yeah, we're going to move on to this kind of become like a recurring thing here because team solely does have a Trello. We can actually track what improvements they made this week for their improvements. Active item visual effects improvements. So whenever you use an active item or I guess what is a cold out, whatever in the jump pad deactivation, cognition, improvements, not exactly sure what that means. I guess whenever the jump pads are offline, you get a better indication that they are offline. Dapper, did you have something to add? I was just going to say that like, I think that they're going to make it a little bit more clear when the jump pads deactivate, like there's going to be some audible noise or maybe like jump pads turned off is going to appear on your screen or whatever. That's fine. All right. I think that's going to wrap it up for overprime for this week. Let's move on in to predecessor for this week.   And again, they look super smooth, much better than what we saw with overprime. I think they look a little better than false jump pad animations.  I'm like, I can just put a t-shirt cannon right there and have him rolling out of it to that sound.  I agree. I think what's cool to is it's funny to me that this is something that we hype up about. But these little types of things matter so much, I think, in games. Like we talk about when you're putting in like lots of hours into games, like the immersion aspects. And I feel like predecessor got it in this aspect. Like you come launching out of there, the camera looks great, the way that they land, the way that they're flying through the air. It just looks cool. It looks like how you would expect.  But obviously that probably stutter them. But yeah, it definitely looks I think it looks better than the other ones. I think all the other ones are fine. This looks like it was actually put together with attention to detail. And wanting you to feel like you're actually flying through the air. I don't mind the sound as much, at least I don't know if Mingus doesn't like it. Or it's just now that you can't get it out of his head that it's a teacher cannon. I don't mind the sound. I think it's fine. It's visceral. It makes you feel like you're flying. Yeah, but I think it's a really, really, really neat attention to detail. And for that, I'm excited because that probably means they're putting attention to detail and a lot of other aspects of the game that make you feel immersed in and enjoying the game. So yeah, that's my take on it. Real quick, folks, Godson, there is no road map for any of the other games. Over problems, the only one currently that is a road map. That's a lie. Oh, a theory, or a guy, dude. This guy, I mean, the Paragonary, you know, Mingus doesn't really know how to put out for a theory. Also, it's cool.  Told you trying to make me read words. All right, go ahead, Shelley. I think for these animations, a big thing that we've seen with predecessor and I'm going to do predecessor direct comparison to fault in this case is function versus feel, right? And fault has a lot of function, right? And arguably, there's a lot of function more than predecessor or overprime have in different aspects, to be sure. But predecessor 100 percent has better feel than fault does, right? Like just and these animations are a prime example of that in that that look of that when you jump off the jump pad, you have that feeling of like going through the air. You land the camera shakes, right? You have like the feel of doing things for in the animations that they've shown is just 100 times better than what we've seen out of other these other games. No question, they kind of bend down when they hit. And but then yeah, but there's no stoppage. They just they continue moving as you would. I think it just feels good, like looking at it.  And that's such a crucial thing that these games are going to need is good feeling when you do things. Yeah. And I think a part of that comes with in both overprime and fault their their launch pads send everyone essentially just horizontal with the ground. Well, in predecessor, it seems like you go higher and what visually seems farther. So it looks like you're actually being launched instead of just we're now putting you over here. And that's I think that helps a lot of the the feeling that goes into it. I can't help it. We just saw a rampage on the video. Yeah. And he does. He does look like he's a teacher now. That's going to that's going to haunt anybody. Yeah, he's totally cannonball it out. I do want to point to Kat, because I think he's making a really good point or they are making a really good point and want to assume your gender here.  I know that's a little bit of work, but if it's something to benefit from as far as like cost and it doesn't obviously add any pay to win aspects, it's just for the visual. But that matters. I think visual like individuality is something that, you know, we all gravitate towards in the gaming space, whether it's playing a MOBA and buying skins or playing like an RPG and earning your loot and wanting to look different or show off how badass you are. I mean, I remember in vanilla.  And people would come up and they're like, oh, dude, it feels if it's one of the best feelings, in my opinion, in gaming. And it's the same thing when you're in the loading screen and you see somebody with like a really cool logo, you're like, oh, dude, that guy's a gamer. Oh, no. Like, you know what I mean? So I think having that, like Kat made this, I think that was a great insight. Like if they had some kind of how would you guys feel about that? Like, would that be something that you would be down for, like as a microtransact or earnable with rampage? Having that rolling into a ball flipping jump head animation if he doesn't get a block of skin from Street Fighter two.  Yes, that's a good one. If they're if they're going to be doing these midair emotes as as you're going to the air, there's going to be Twin Blast dabbing midair as he's flying 100 percent. Exactly. It would be the one to dab. Of course. Exactly. He's such a douchebag, but we all love him. That's my thing. I think microtransaction cosmetics are perfectly fine. Sure. Just don't make them loot boxes. Yeah. Well, we yeah, we all know how we all feel. I think about that at this point. Yeah, I think the ability to add personalized effects is really cool. So if they add like, you know, landing smoke or whatever, you can choose that. Yeah, I think there's so many things. There's so many things you could do to add to that. Well, I mean, because that's like the appeal to like in a lot of the MOBAs, right, like when you get a new skin and they add in like, you know, not just the fact that it's a recolor or adding in new armor, but like, you know, when I hit this button, it looks different. The animation is slightly different. The voice lines are slightly different. There's a cost value to those things. Like I know for me, when I bought certain skins in League of Legends, a lot of the times it wasn't even just for the aesthetic of the skin. It was the way the abilities looked when I cast them, that like that improvement made me more interested in one skin versus the other. And it wasn't even about the cost. Sometimes like cheaper skins, I just like the animation of whatever it was that they changed better. So I think that there's hopefully these guys all pay attention to that and and add something in that way to these games, because I think it will not only give them an avenue for revenue, but it'll also make the game more fun. I think part of the reason why like League of Legends in particular is so successful is because of how creative their skin lines are and people are invested in them, and especially now that they're creating freaking stories around them, the Star Guardian skins and stuff like that. It is very easy, I think, for these these teams to start to kind of find and create their own. But like like Ruba said, that with time, with time, like. Oh, yeah, let's get the game on our knees and then we'll work on this. I just got excited by Kat's comment. I thought it was a cool idea and I wanted to highlight it. I didn't mean to like, you know, put too much pressure on the dev team to make this something on release. No, this is what we're calling for. We need to see these emotes before we see the game. Yeah, yeah, dead game otherwise. Dead game otherwise. Get to work. Dead on release. Dead on release. Yeah, no, this game definitely seems more animation finished, more aesthetically finished. And I'm excited to eventually try this. So yeah, same. Play test with the other thing. Play test with predecessor this week. It was just kind of like what overprime is the one just a real quick teaser, but they did it for Chimera. It was a little more in depth than the overprime ones. It was a little shorter, but like a little more cinematic. I thought it was really cool. I'd love to see them do this with more heroes and I would like to see them. I'd like to see them be a little bit longer that I really like the Chimera one, but I want more. Yeah, I mean, something we've seen out of predecessor in the past is like short cinematics like for the last play test, they did a howitzer one, right? And showed a little bit of that. And so this could be a tease toward that end of that some kind of launch cinematic or something among those lines and announcement cinematic again, whatever it is them going through it and kind of starting the tease on that, which I'm down for, honestly. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm still chat is so good today. Ruben, he's a console or colorful landing smoke. Colorful landing smoke. I'm only going, oh, I don't see you. So yeah, give me that smoke. Give me that smoke. I know you go for votes for colorful landing smoke. Exactly, exactly. The late console, you can blame us. It's no big deal. Blame the FTM crew. No, I appreciate you guys, man. It's you chat is really popping off today. This is great. Thank you guys for I'm finding entertainment for me. I don't know. Well, that was it without it. It's a dedicated carrot. I want a man sound. Every time I go off the jump pad. Oh, there it is. I'm right there. We do need it. We do need it. I would pay. I would pay the two dollars for that or maybe five up to five. Is that all worth to you? Yes. Let's go ahead and move into ethereal. This week, we got the Talos updated VFX with the Talos updated skin jelly. You're the theory expert. You want to take it away? We were. Yeah, apparently the dapper is the dapper is the dapper has become the ethereal expert. I love it. So Dapper, what do you think? I mean, when it comes to the effects, I had seen what some of the other characters had. And, you know, they're very early efforts and doing into this and a lot of progress is to be made from this point. So seeing the new VFX already from this is like, wow, they're making a lot of progress really fast on characters that already existing. And I'm glad to see that they're putting effort on characters that exist instead of just saying, these are what the old characters were like. So we're going to keep them that way and already make new characters. And those are going to be the good animations. So it's good to see ethereal putting effort into what is already there instead of making new and making those new things better.  Mm-hmm. I really like that you guys put, like the video is far more well done than the original Telos VFX video for one. Also really liked though that you guys put what it looked like before and what it looked like after. Where did you guys get that idea, Jelly? Like, did like a really smart guy ask for that? Oh my God. I mean, it was, but not who you're thinking. Oh really?  So yeah, yeah, yeah, brilliant idea by me. Smartest guy, dude, I am. Big truth. I don't know if it was your idea.  Nice to see you. Yeah. I was going to say something, but that was perfect. I was going to make a joke. You nailed it. But no, so Mangers did say halfway through the week, like I wish I could see before. And I was like, you know what? Fine, Mangers before and afters. Here we go. It came with a lot more attitude, just what you guys to know and chat. He was not, it was, it was more of a reluctance, but then he realized it was a good idea and he did it. I just put the I emoji in there and left it at that. We know. We all know. Yeah, no one's here. I decided that's what he said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, my boss decides to show up right as I'm talking about this. I didn't notice it in the first part, but like when the spin animation looks so cool on the ground, like the way that the ground distorts, I didn't notice that the first time I watched through this. Amazing attention to detail.  I like the new jump where he like does the somersault into, but that just that spin and way the ground distorts around it. Because I just thought the spin animation on its own was cool. But adding in that little bit of detail, because the guys who are playing against him aren't going to notice that they're just going to know they're getting their ass hand into him. But the guy who's playing that is going to see those types of things and feel again, more immersed into the character. And I think that's always a good thing when we talk about it with all these games. So just something I didn't notice before. And I thought that was cool. So if we get it going back through in the loop, I think pay attention to it because it's really neat if you didn't see it like I did the first time. Yeah, go ahead. I didn't mean to sidetrack. Updated VFX, I love them. I think they're fantastic. Yeah, Talos. Talos is one of the myths that's been shown the longest in terms of ethereal development, right? You can find videos way back showing Talos originally. And so he started to show his age. So that's what he got, the visual effects and the just update in general to his model. I know there are a lot of people. I wouldn't say a lot. There are people out there that like the old version of Talos better or just in general, like that version of Talos. So that version will still be in the game. That's going to be a traditional Talos skin that people can still use. But this will be the new base model for Talos is this updated version. Oh, it looks so good. Yeah, the VFX make it look like it's been. Yeah, it looks so good. It adds more depth than what it might originally been, which is just add new elements here, add suddenly spikes out of nowhere, add suddenly, you know, whatever. Well, in this one, it seems like they're actually being summoned from the ground, the dark spikes. You can see the darkness of the twirl when you see them do that front swing. You see the dark effect of smoke come off the back end of that as if there's more magic behind that than simply it's a cool looking slash. So we added effects. It shows the enhancement that is there. So I think that's a good way to do that, to show that all of that is being enhanced. It's not just we added an effect because it's a really powerful move. You want to talk about a hero landing to whenever you jump off the side lane and then all with Talos into somebody that's on the bottom lane.  OK, Jelly, we need a video of that for next time, because I didn't even I didn't even think about that as an idea. But no, that's so well, you play a Talos a lot when we get to jump into games. That makes more sense, the mangoes would already have played around with that idea. I know I've played tell us like I think two or three times when I was lucky enough to be part of the testing crew like a year ago. He wasn't really my cup of tea, but I wonder actually, and I think somebody in chat said the same thing. I think it was covered as lemon. I think I actually struggled to connect a little bit to Talos and but now seeing him and some of the restructure of how his kit works. I think that changes and that means a lot. Like I think that because that's something I think we've praised ethereal a lot is their ideas for these myths and what they're capable of doing. And when you see like an FX update like this, that it makes to me. I mean, it's just really neat to know that like you can have your mind changed, I guess, about a character, because it's the same thing that I think when we see like updates in League of Legends, like, you know, they just did a Udyr, for example, I never liked Udyr before, like Udyr a lot. Now he just seems way more fun to play. I think it's really neat when in these early stages that we get to see this type of stuff. And Kat mentioned this in there as well, that, you know, this game is going to be probably the longest to be released. That's probably true. But I think it's neat that as an audience and as a fan of this style of games, we get to be part of that growth and create feedback loops where we're like, hey, dev team that's working on this project. We think this might be a cool idea and we might, you know, and getting that seed come to life in a few months time. I'm just so impressed with what the team has been able to put together in such what I would consider a relatively short amount of time. So kudos to the ethereal team for putting all this stuff together and thank you for showing it to us because I think it's super cool. I mean, I think about the first test that ethereal had was a little under a year ago that the community was a part of and the leaps and bounds that the game has made in that amount of time is insane. Yeah. Right. In terms of the quality of gameplay, quality of map, quality of characters, like across the board. There are leaps and bounds being made in development and it's super cool to see internally. And I hope it's just as cool to see externally for the community as well. The biggest of which I yesterday, I went into the old map that the community has played on the tests and then immediately after, went into the new map and it was just like night and day difference.  Like that's that's insane that like that's the quality change. And that's what we strive to make that the quality going forward. Yeah. So new things have to be this bar or higher. New things have to meet this bar or higher. The new model for Talos is a prime example of that. Right. That that shows from when Talos was originally made to now the quality change that's happened in terms of character designs. Right. Like that's it's a huge shift upwards of quality and detail and all of those things for these models going forward. And again, they're showing fire right now. So I'll say it again.   Yeah. Well, and I also say anything nice to you ever again. I also think that that that speaks a little bit to of the leadership that they took on Jelly and took on his ideas and wanting an approach to wanting to make sure that marketing was something to put on the forefront a little bit more to get more eyes on it. And I know Owen was in here for a little bit. So it's also kudos to the leadership team to to see that. And I'm not wanting to jerk anybody off, but it just it it's it's hard enough, I think, to make games and, you know, and it takes a lot of vulnerability to put your in work progress like this stuff is like in probably what I would consider almost like it's still extreme alpha, right? Like it's it's very, very young still and in a good place for alpha. But I think it's like that's where I would put it personally.  But I think it matters a lot that they're willing to, I guess, put their trust in the community to see what they're working on and not be like, I guess, overly critical for the fact that they're being open and honest and wanting feedback on a game that is still very much in development. And so it's a kudos, I think, all around for for taking that chance and being vulnerable in this state, because it's it's pretty mean. I think this goes back to what we talked about last week, where the the companies behind each of these individual games are doing their best to make it clear where they are in the process of these games being made. You know, Ethereal is showing that it is still an early development. But what they are developing, you know, they're taking community feedback. They're taking feedback from people that care about the game and want it to succeed. And they understand that they've got a lot to go through before it's full release or even early access, and they're fine with that because they know where they are and they're willing to let that vulnerability occur because by letting the community help put input into that, not only does it keep to their view, Undyne's view of the game, but also a way to mix that view with what the community is hoping for as well. Yeah. And so getting that as early as possible means you don't have to wait till the game is 75 percent done. All right. Now, what does the community think? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's been one of the coolest things of doing more of this work in progress stuff is that the reaction from the community has been overwhelmingly positive about it. And that's that's both from the people in the Patreon when they get to see it and the community at large, right? That that's that both sides are saying, like, we love this. Like, yeah, it's work in progress, but keep going. Like you're on the right track, right? And even when there is criticisms that come through, I someone on one of the posts for Patreon recently made a point about like the skin color for a character for a certain skin line. Like, hey, I would really love to see like more of an olive skin tone for this character. That's brilliant feedback, right? But and it wasn't overly harsh. It wasn't how dare you guys. It was perfectly like, hey, if this is the skin line, I'd love to see this kind of attachment to it and be like, that's something that's way easier to receive as a dev team of like, that's a great idea, may oversight whatever it may be, right? That kind of feedback is 100 percent what we've been getting. We haven't really been getting the harsh. How dare you be work in progress still kind of kind of feedback, which is super cool to see. I mean, I'm there.  Let's play the game. Consular cosmetics, my king, gosh, both at all times, please. Let's let's go ahead and move into fault. Not a lot from fault this week. They returned from Gamescom. They had extras of the the bellica skin, the bellica Gamescom skin and their giveaway for that. And they did say that they will be talking about some mastery races and stuff going forward. So it sounds like after Gamescom, they kind of reset and they're going to start giving us a little more information going forward. We've kind of been complaining a lot recently about how quiet they've been. But it sounds like they might be done with being so quiet, hopefully. I mean, it sounds like they said, we know we're being quiet. Please be patient before we start making news. So, you know, hopefully they start making progress on that. And, you know, it's cool that they have extra codes to give away to this for the skin. Still still sitting here waiting for some more than that, though. I was thinking about it, but since they they have to know that a very small proportion of their audience was able to go to Gamescom, whether they're in the EU or not. How would you guys have felt if they just decided after Gamescom to put that skin on the shop and give it away for free at Gamescom? But then, yeah, if you went to Gamescom, you get it for free because you went to an event, right? Is my it's a reward for buying a ticket and putting it on the shop. Because I know like Windu is one I think about. Windu wanted that skin super bad when it was announced. And unless he wins this contest, he's just that so well. Yeah, sure. Unless you get all partners like they are, well, that's true. But but I think the point stands, right? Like other people who are not partners, right? And getting everything for free, I agree. I think it would be fine. And the people who would want it would pay for it. It definitely I think they're in the position right now where they need because they're free to play now. They don't have they can't lean on just the money that they were getting from people who randomly bought the game on Steam. They need to continue to add opportunities for revenue. And so I think, yeah, having this skin that every that people who showed up get for free and you get that experience of getting to meet the dev team or ask and talk and have questions, get pictures. And that's just a cool thing in general. It's something that nobody else who buys that skin is going to get to say that they had part of. I think that adding it into the to the to the shop as a purchasable skin gives other people who couldn't make the trip to Germany feel like they were still part of that and getting to support the game that they like. I mean, you could maybe argue that they add like a slight coloration change or something like that to distinguish between the people who got it for free from from going to Gamescom versus the people who just bought it in the shop. But I don't think it's necessary. I don't think it would hurt anybody who got it in Gamescom because it probably was maybe what 10, 15 people who even maybe got it. So that's all of extra codes. Yeah, they weren't even in the visitors portion. Like you had to have a special pass to get to where they were. Yeah, because they were in the business section or something like that, right? Or the interest something among those lines, where you're forming like relationships with other companies. Yeah, yeah, I do think it'd be a good thing to add because as I as I mentioned last week, the fault doesn't really have an incentive to buy anything from them like at all the loot boxes again, you get for free and you get a lot for doing them. You get a lot because you get for you get to daily constantly with a weekly that gives you a lot. Like there's no incentive to buy anything in faults in any capacity unless you just want to rush progress. So adding something like that that is exclusive that you have to buy would be a way to monetize. And that's that's my thought process. We've talked before about they don't really have a lot of skins that you can't just earn. And now and that was even before the loot boxes were added in. Now it's like you can earn any skin given enough time and enough chance, right? But it's they they the thing I keep going back to is they have to find a way to monetize. That's not earning things for free, right? And if this was a skin that people were like, I'd buy that skin. That should be a skin you're putting on the market for people to buy, right? Like that's it's not it absolutely. It's not. I'm totally OK with you giving it away at Gamescom. I think that's a great idea. Reward the people that showed up to come see you no problem at all. But then allow the rest of your community to support you, support that decision, support skin generation, support all of these things by purchasing the skin then thereafter. Yeah, there's no downside to adding it to the store. Yeah. Well, Julie Linneo brings up that they fall. Oh, geez, we're limited with the Gideon skin on Epic.  You never know. But I don't think it's the same concept. I don't think it is either. Not even that is like, I mean, I get that some people would be upset that you have to go to Epic to download a free game that might make you 20 minutes to get a free skin. But, you know, it's just me like it's not. It's not like it's hard effort. It's not like you're losing anything by adding the option. I think my main to disagree is that they took a skin and recolored it of a skin that was super unique and cool prior to going to free to play. And so for the people who had purchased the skin and been a supporter of the devs before that and bought that skin, I feel like and now I'm maybe speaking for them. But I know for me, if I had bought that skin, I would feel like it was a bit of like, whoa, bro, like I paid for this. And now they get a coloration of it that, in my opinion, the coloration looks better than the base skin.  I mean, yeah, I would take extreme issue that now. That does not, in my opinion, transfer to the same level as people who were at an event getting it for free and doing something where they probably if they weren't, let's just say this, if they weren't giving away free skins and people, the people who went and saw the team were going to go and see the team anyway. This was like an additional add on like, hey, man, we really appreciate you guys getting to come.  And I don't have a problem with them. Like I said, I think that there's some way of probably doing a slight recoloration, not to take away from the skin's coolness, but to show off like, no, I was actually live at the event or maybe give them a title or give them like their own, you know, icon or something like that to signify a little bit more that they own the original that was given to them live versus this giveaway version or sold version. In League of Legends, their early events, they did the exact same thing of sure that and but they did it was exclusive to the event. So I do understand where they're coming from if they're doing it that way instead. Yeah, but you could go to events like packs or any of those kind of things. And they'd give you a little ticket. You put in a code, you'd get a free skin, a really good skin, a skin award, whatever it was, right? And so that concept does work and it does incentivize people going to your events. But when you're so small, when you're when you're not League of Legends sized, true, right, there's a difference. And that's why I think it'd be more OK to see your community be able to purchase it than thereafter. I agree that the Gideon skin, I think it was more of a problem because of the fact that people had already paid for that skin. Yeah. And then a recolor was then being released for free. I think the difference between the Gideon situation and the Bellica situation was the Gideon was something that people paid for, which became free. Well, the Bellica is something that was free, but you can pay for. So it's it's switching. So that's why they're slightly different. But yeah, yes. I don't know. It's fault that I mean, that's all we got for fault this week. Unless you guys got anything else you guys wanted to talk about with fault. I just want to say one really, I guess, quick thing because we talk a lot about and Jelly loves this term of saying that all, you know, all tides, race, ships or something like that. All high tides, all ships rise on a high tide. Yeah, I'd raise is all ships. Yeah, I want I want to really, really, really encourage that the community at large that are invested in the success of these three mobos as a whole, because it whether you're holding out for overprime or you're holding out for predecessor, fault is currently out there. Or if you're holding out. Well, no, I'm specifically ethereal is going to be its own beast. And I'm talking more about these pair of zombies. I think that it's really, really important for people to get more invested in fault and its current state. I'm not saying I'm not trying to convince anyone to to spend money on the game necessarily. I mean, unless you want to, that's fine. Go for it. But I'm not trying to I'm not sponsored by fault.  What I'm saying is that I think if you get into their game, you'll realize that it's changed a lot. The they might bungle a lot of stuff. They might struggle to make things happen in the way that we're used to from bigger companies with more money and more, you know, the game itself is good. It's not the greatest place they're doing fine. Well, what I want more is for people to get in game, actually play the game and give good feedback that makes that the changes happen in game so that if you really want these other ones to be to the level that is going to stand in the test of time, because I talked about this being brutally honest last week, all three of these games are going to really struggle on a whole, but fault has already managed to do it for two years. They have success already in a in a grander scheme in a gaming sense. Like they've been managing to keep the servers running, whether well or not, that's a whole another conversation. But the servers are on. You can eventually get into a game. And I think the game in its current state is pretty good overall. So play the game if you care about the success of your other games, because it's going to make these other games pay attention. I don't they don't have to say it in chats. They don't have to admit it to me. But any smart business is going to be paying attention to the game that's currently out and available and people can touch and and mess around with. So every time fault does something, whether good or bad, they're paying attention to the feedback. So if you want to see predecessor be the best version or overprime, be the best version or even fault to be the best version. We need more people to get involved in the game itself and actually provide feedback to the SMS crew as well as providing feedback to predecessor and overprime to say, like, hey, this is working really well in fault, because if you look at the map in the jungle down for overprime, it's really close to faults, like really close to weight. Like, I mean, to me, it almost looked like a one for one. If I'm being brutally honest here, it was very similar. They flattened it out a lot and maybe Jelly could speak a little bit more to it. But like, anyway, this is, again, not me trying to like hard sell for fault. But I think that falls in a pretty good space overall. And it's a game that I think if anybody wants to see these pair of zombies do well, you want to see that tide raise. And I think it's important that they get the feedback that they need to continue to raise that tide or these all these games are going to struggle. Go ahead. Sorry. I'll even add an extra an extra element to that. Even if, right, if fault goes down, whatever, two years from now, it falls no longer around the I can bet you that every other of these developers is also watching fault whenever they do something. We're watching predecessor or watching overprime regardless, right? I'll take overprime as an example or overprime put in prime dunk. Right. If fault and predecessor were both looking at that and considering prime dunk, they now get to watch what overprime did. See how the community responds and then decide internally whether or not they're going to do that, right? So they get to avoid any potential bad press by watching these other companies do it, right? So when fault releases raptor changes, right, everybody can look at that and see, OK, how did the community respond to this? And then engage from there. So it's your response on one game can also positively influence the other games, right, because they can see that you didn't like loot boxes. And so maybe maybe that's the thing that makes them go, you know what? No loot boxes in our game or whatever the concept may be. So it is important to interact with each each thing positively or negatively because it like like the saying is, right? It raises the tide and that raises all ships just across the board. But it has to be like fair criticism. You can't just say fault bad, don't play. Make sure you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, make sure you're actually putting in criticisms that you want to see.  So I'm just going to keep throwing this out there when it's just you trying to interfere with people's what could be in a troll passions. Yeah, yeah. But all right, I think that is going to wrap up fault for this week. So let's move on to the topic of discussion for this time. So I brought this up. Nerd Slayer did their their death of a game for Heroes of New Earth, which was a MOBA back that was in development back when legal legends and Dota 2 were in development. And when I was watching this video, it was paralleling what's been going on with these games so hard like you can substitute Heroes of New Earth with fault legal legends with overprime and Dota 2 with predecessor. It was it's like the same story. And I'll say that I don't mean that as in fault is doomed to fail just like Heroes of New Earth. What I'm saying is this is history that they could learn from and hopefully improve upon because they didn't meet all the criteria of the breakdown of why Heroes of New Earth failed. But they met a lot of it. It was really close. Yeah. And those things that weren't the same are the things that should be changed so it doesn't happen. Those are the to come things that are separating fault and HON. So the reasons for failure was Dota 2 was one. So another game coming into the space. So we have predecessor and overprime. They switched to another MOBA. That's not one of those sold to a new publisher. They were they were talking about. They were at the Gamescom talking to investors and stuff. Lacked competitive. They're competitors resources, which I think is a huge one. The most toxic community out of all of them, which I think we can all pretty much agree. False community is well known for being very toxic. Poor balance updates, not free to play at launch and a steep learning curve. So I think a lot of this applies to all of these games and League of Legends focused more on being a more casual, but had more behind them. Another thing here is an orthodid. It it forced their game out before the other ones to try and capture the audience, but they forced it out too early. They made it harder, which is fault has been trying to make it harder. And then Dota 2 just stayed kind of with Dota and they found their success that way. Predecessor seems to be staying with the Paragon formula and finding their success that way. So if you guys have not seen this, here's a newer nerd Slayer video.  I mean, one thing, too, that I think is is a big touching point on that, too, is the actual dev teams themselves. Like Dota 2. Well, Dota initially was it was a Warcraft 3 mod, right? Is most people who paid attention know Dota 2 was an expansion on that with new devs and more money and access to better servers and all that stuff. League of Legends had, I think, the first other than the two guys who created Riot, they had of the main I think of three out of the best cinematic stock footage. Do we lose something? No. So they had they had some guys who were coming into this space in a relatively like unknown genre that was kind of still on the testing front. Dota showed that it was people liked it, but it wasn't really that big yet. It was Dota 2 really pushed it. League of Legends really pushed it to the bigger thing. And I think the main thing that separated the two was whether or not which one you vibed with more, whether you ended up on Dota Spectrum or on League of Legends, like League of Legends went a lot more cartoony and, you know, a little bit more fun in that aspect. But like old League of Legends, I don't know when those last time any of you guys looked at like the videos from it was garbage. It was a bad, bad game. But what they focused on, or at least visually, it was a bad game. But what they focused on so well was creating fun champions when you pressed buttons. And when we describe when we describe, I think, like, you know, these pair of zombies and like for me, Iggy and Scorch coming out for fault was the first time in a long time with fault that I felt like these buttons are fun to press. And I know in overprime, almost all the champions that I played, all the buttons felt fun to press. And I didn't play predecessor, but you guys have talked about how the gameplay loop or the I'm sorry, the actual visual gameplay, while still lacking maybe in some of the other avenues was also right up there. And so like, I feel like it is kind of like fault is the one that seems to be the guinea pig of like the things that they just keep doing, unfortunately, wrong up until Iggy and Scorch. I think Iggy and Scorch is a triumph, in my opinion, for progressing the game in a more modern way. But it is really, it is really eerie. The correlation between those videos. So sorry, I've been monologuing a little bit, but what are you guys's thoughts? Yeah, because on top of everything, on top of all of that, it comes to the idea that the devs for HON took the more passive stance. Like the community is going to help figure this out. We're going to stick to it's harder. And that's what we wanted it to be. We wanted it to be this more difficult get into a situation and then eventually picked up that lower, more casual, easier barrier to entry thing like faults trying to do now by making glass hitting easier. So the parallels continue even more than what we had directly mentioned so far. And it's just crazy to see like how close of a correlation it is. Yeah, 100 percent. And I think that's you guys have touched on something a couple times today that I think is really important for all these games. And it's even something I talked about with predecessor and in fault is things need to feel good when you do them, right? Like that's that's the biggest thing that like if you can look past so much, if when I press my buttons, I get that rush of endorphins just when I press my buttons and if between button presses, it's all kind of meh. I can look past a lot of that because when I press my buttons, it feels good, right? And that's that's a thing that like all of these games need to focus on. And I think in that direct aspect, overprime is probably my pick for the one that does that the most.  Like it's it's you're excited every time you're hitting an ability and like all of these games need to strive for that feeling when you're when you're doing things. And that's when you're doing anything, not just when you're pressing buttons, but especially when you're pressing buttons. Well, I think it's well, sorry, good. You guys, I was just going to simply say, like, if CBT2 felt that way, you know, they've only theoretically improved from that point on with early access coming out soon. So, you know, and hopefully predecessor does that as well. I didn't seem too much gameplay of predecessor stuff. But a lot of it felt like what you'd see in a mobile like it makes sense, it looks cool, but it's not outstanding.  So hopefully predecessor can do that as well. Because if the jump pad animations look that good, I hope the other animations can match that too. Oh, predecessor's animations are far and away the best out of all the games, I think predecessor has far more fluidity than any of the other games. And the targeting is a lot more intuitive with pretty much everything overprime is right there just kind of just underneath them. And then fault has some pretty good animations as well. They like their basic attack animations are really good. But they're they're just kind of lacking in a lot of the stuff that overprime and predecessor are not going to have that weight behind it. And I think like the my main takeaway from the video as far as the overprime goes is they've overprime has kind of gone the route that League of Legends went and look at League of Legends now because overprime like League of Legends with a more casual version of the game that looked a little bit better and looked a little more entertaining overprime. I don't this is, of course, my subjective opinion. But if I were to watch sit down and watch competitive gameplay from any of these games, I would prefer to watch overprime to do any of them because it is so action packed and fast paced and you just you're not just sitting there watching somebody farm for like 15 minutes before the action actually happens. So and that's where I'm curious to see what these changes with leveling does on a setting like that like Mangoose you and I casted that tournament that get through gaming had for overprime the last CBT. And that part of the reason part of the reason it was so much fun to cast was at minute one you and I are like dude they're fighting already like here we go. Like it's balls to the wall minute one and I'm very curious to see where that transfers. And if that's still present once these changes come through of not having all your abilities level one slower progression from the start, like all of these things that overprime is changing, it'll be interesting to see for sure. I mean, I would have thought that after watching the Chimera video that you would have gotten that answered for you because it looked like it didn't matter. Because he had a vendetta against the fey and mid lane is not necessarily. Maybe that's true. But I did. I mean, I'm two overprimes credit, despite them starting at level one, I mean, both of those videos, I think they ended the game around 20 minutes or 25 minutes. Now granted, they were both stomps, let's be honest. Now, but we also don't know if that was intended. We don't know what, you know, testing they were in at that point where they were showing it off in the gameplay for us to be able to see. But I do kind of want to make two main points that I think that graphically, all these games look good overall. But I think gamers as a whole, there was a big push, I think from from devs thinking that they needed to make the most like graphically beautiful over the top games at one point. And while I think there's still an audience for that, I mean, I feel like I'm still in that space. It's not the main driving point for why I pick one game over another, or at least longevity why I end up playing a game longer than another. I think that if you look at like, you know, some of the top games in the world, they're not always the most graphically fluid games. I mean, Minecraft is a pixel game. Roblox is a pixel game. Like you have a lot of these games that aren't necessarily the most graphically intense, but they're fun to play. And I think sometimes when we think about like Paragon in its days, the reason why so many people gravitated towards Paragon is because they were looking for something different than the others. And it was really the only option. And then over time, the gameplay into itself wasn't matching the idea that people had in their heads. And my fear, and I think this video points it out really well, is that there's some games where we're gonna rise to the occasion of being able to make the game fun and then graphically feel immersive, which is important, absolutely. But the game needs to be fun more than it needs to be graphically immersive. That's, to me, that's the most important things that I take from this video. And I think that of the three studios, you know, there's definitely a pecking order that seems to be matching that idea a little bit more. But time will tell, like it is easy to point at fault and be like, bro, you guys are the ones falling behind. But I, again, I'm gonna go back to saying this. I think Iggy is a great release. Like I feel like his champion kit looks amazing. It feels good to press the buttons. They do have some fine-tuning, don't get me wrong. It's not like a perfect champion, but it felt good. It was a fun champion to play. And I hadn't felt that in a long time. And I think that these other champions, again, we're gonna have in the back of our mind what it used to be in Paragon. And so you're always gonna be battling for people who played Paragon what this champion is supposed to do and not do. And some are going to meet that occasion well, and others are gonna fall flat. So if fault manages to continue putting out releases and updates like they did for Iggy, they still stand a chance to rewrite the script and not end up being the one that gets left behind. And they could be one that's successful. And these other guys who seem to be following in the steps of Dota and League of Legends might fumble the ball because of complacency and not realizing that what's the true essence of these games that are gonna keep people playing and bring in a larger audience. Because that's the biggest thing. We need a lot more players to play these games. And just being pretty, it might get people to download it initially, but it's not gonna keep them playing long enough. Yeah, the fact that there's three games branching off of one original. Yeah. It tears a community in multiple regards because you have the people that came from Paragon that want to find which one they can vibe with the most. But then you have the people that have not played Paragon at all. And it's like, so wait, these three are the same game from somebody that doesn't know the difference. Why would I wanna play one over the other if I've already put the effort into this one? Why would I try this one? So that's where each company's doing a good job of making sure each game feels like a different experience that's unique to each one. We've covered multiple times, over from the more casual one. Predecessor is trying to kind of stick close to Paragon and then false again, doing its own thing, making it much more tactical. So by each of them making their own version of this game, that makes it so people can find their niche and does make it a higher chance that all three will hopefully survive. But again, it sort of parallels that Nerdslayer video that they all originated from Dota. Yeah, from that moment. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's true. I mean, Riot is notorious for basically borrowing and or stealing ideas and then just doing them better. But to be fair, that was the Warcraft or slash World of Warcraft mentality.  Yeah, they did it to EverQuest. They did, absolutely. In this capacity, we all as gamers, as consumers, like I'm not going to get a Blizzard tattoo or get a Riot tattoo or get a Fault tattoo. I just want good games to play for as long as I feel like playing them. And I have a whole library of games that are overall are good. You know what I mean? Now there's always gonna be your one stop shop fanboy who just plays one game and only plays that one game. But the vast majority of us as gamers overall are not that and it's getting even worse. Like this new generation of gamers, they're not that. They're looking for what's good and hot now. And I think, you know, you can look at the streaming world as they struggle and just chatting to find good games to keep an audience. You know what I mean? But so yeah, I mean, that's my big take on it. It's like, you know, is the game fun to play?  In a vacuum, right? In a CBT in the time that we had to play. It looks like they're doing that well. And I know I've heard from lots of people, processor was fun to play. And up until recently, I wouldn't have argued that fault is fun to play. But I do feel like fault is fun to play mostly currently when you can get games. Now that's a struggle for them to figure out is to get more people in their game, but I do think the game itself is fun to play. And so again, I think it's a ball is actually in all three of these devs' hands to figure out how to capitalize and make the game more fun and engaging. And if they do that well, they might be the League of Legends or Dota instead of being the one that gets a, you know, documentary made about them and how they sucked and failed. And that's why I think these three games are going to blow up out of the gate because a lot of multiplayer games these days just aren't sticking. Like you hear about all these games, they blow up for like five to six months if they're lucky. Then they just vanish off the face of the earth and those that did enjoy the game stick around but their numbers aren't that high. I mean, there's no, not off the top of my head, no game that stuck for more than a year as a major new thing. Everything's old IPs, everything's old ideas rehashed. Everything's, it's hard to find any original multiplayer games these days that have blown up in such a manner. And so with these three games and eventually Ethereum, they're going to hopefully set a new standard for MOBAs and a new standard for multiplayer games as general because these branch multiple categories. They branch in for people that like customization in terms of like stats and how you wanna play, customization in cosmetics, customization in how you build teams, but also shooter aspects but also tactical aspects, bar management, team management, there's so much that MOBAs like these three and four can bring in that this should hopefully set in a new standard of multiplayer games where it's more cooperation instead of how much can you perform, how much can you outperform everybody in the lobby? And that's the thing that these, all of these games are gonna struggle with with maybe currently the exception of overprime is that the games that have broken out over the last couple years to have some kind of staying power have almost entirely been old studios that have an insane amount of resources to dump into something so that on release, even if it's an early access release, it's got way more than most other games out there do. Primary exception being Apex Legends or Fortnite. And I know bringing a Fortnite on this show is a blasphemous skin. So I won't talk about that too much, but Apex Legends, right? That's coming from Respawn Entertainment who's put out many, many titles, right? And they went into the Battle Royale genre, created their own idea, but they had the resources to back it up. And that's where I think a lot, that's a huge thing to overcome is how do you get that breakout without those resources? Or vice versa, like how do you manage your resources to get the breakout, all that kind of stuff? I think, and this is kind of taking off of what Tainted Evil said in chat because I think it applies to these, is hood is a great example of games struggling with success necessarily, but also struggling to find identity in making it work. Like I think the failure of hood, for example, if for anybody who doesn't know it was a really, really cool concept. The problem was is that there was a massive player base that came in because of the popularity that it got from streamers and all that stuff. But there was like two sides of the player base of like we wanted to be this style and another group that says we wanted to be this style and there was like really no overlap. It was like either this style or this style and there was nothing in between in the devs. Weren't able to, one, create multiple modes fast enough to be able to appease to both and they didn't commit to just saying, you know what, the game is this for now, we'll add in something for you guys later down the road. It's really, really struggled. All they had to do was fix that winch mechanic. That's the only thing they had to do. The winch issue.  They didn't try and play the map. They didn't try and sneak. They just would try and bulldoze their way through. And it was, that was their style of playing and it was dumb, but it was what it was. And so I think that the devs really struggled despite the players to match what the style was. And also like everything was really slow. I don't think they expected to be as popular as they were and as fast as they were, but like, you know, the progression system was really bad. The skins were really bad. They struggled in a lot of ways, but those same things correlate to these, you know, new games that are coming out or already out. You have to be ready to handle the adversities that are gonna come from not only your community and what they want, but what your identity is in this space and then being able to create a engaging, you know, transaction system or progression system. And so right now I think fault is struggling with that idea. Like that's where they really have been struggling for the last two years in my opinion, but overprime and predecessor are going to have, in my opinion, the same struggles. It's not good enough, at least in initial relaunch to be, if you don't have an identity, which overprime I felt like we thought they struggled with. Overprime wasn't sure where they wanted to be. You either had an hour and a half long game or a 15 minute game, you know, or even a seven minute game. You know, like that's not ideal, right? So, but that's a my take on it based off of what he said in chat because I thought that was a really good insight from Hood. Some of the questions from chat, which one of these games has the most backing? That's kind of hard to say. Predecessor has that like 22, 26, 28, something million dollars that have been invested into the game, but overprime has Netmarble, which is the largest mobile gaming company in South Korea behind them, but we don't know what kind of budget Netmarble is giving Team Soul Leave. So it's kind of hard to say which one has the most backing. We know that Strange Matter is completely community funded and we know Ethereal is kind of Patreon funded right now, like, so I think Ethereal and Falter definitely at the bottom and probably overprime is probably the most backed, but it very well could be Predecessor. If you went by like a net worth capacity, overprime for sure. Yeah, sure. There's no way Netmarble vastly has more than 26 million dollars, so it's, so yeah, like Mango said, it kind of depends, but I want to touch on what Viking was talking about with like these companies and their struggles. Something that I think overprime, if they can keep to their word, and we haven't heard anything like this from Predecessor of what their release schedule is going to look like post early access release, but overprime is committed to a hero a month and then a original hero every three months. If they can keep to that schedule, that covers up a world of hurt because a large part of where Fault faltered is the inconsistent releases of new content. Right, that great, yes, they're working on the game, that's fine, I just wish I had something new to cut my teeth on, right? That I could go in the game and once a month be like, ah, there's a new hero out, just kind of shake things up a little bit. Once a month there's something else, consistent balance patches of any kind, consistency is also key in a lot of this, that even if you're not making giant leaps very quickly, there's a lot of things you can do to mitigate people either quitting your game or losing interest in your game in the meantime. Would you agree with me that I would be okay with maybe less consistency in patches? We know like League of Legends puts out a new patch now, they didn't use to, but they new patch every two weeks. They basically have that locked in, right? I'm okay with a smaller dev team like SMS saying, we can't commit to that kind of style where we're gonna have a new patch out every month or every two months, but at least they're communicating in general a roadblock of like, hey, we're aiming for this or hey, this is what we're working on, but it's gotten pushed back because of other things that came up during testing that we weren't expecting. I think for me, I would be again, and not that I don't agree that consistency is a big deal, I think though I would be more forgiving of consistency if there was better communication from dev to player. And I mean like obvious communication, not that I have to be in your Discord, following you on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, like I want in-game notifications in the bottom as a news tab saying, hey, we're aware of these types of issues and we're working on them and we're expecting a release for this around this time next month or whatever. Cause that would keep me engaged with you developing your game and I think that's an important part if you want to keep a player base because the lack of a roadmap and the struggles that maybe even come up during that roadmap and you're communicating of those is a big deal I think for all of these companies, more so for the teams that are smaller than the teams that are bigger and able to maybe get to the more consistency like over Primus. So I would say where Faults was most engaged with their community and their community was most engaged and granted this was within the first year of their release, which has a part to play in it was during their season zero pass where on a quarterly basis you knew something was coming because at the bare minimum, even if I stopped playing Faults, I'd go like, oh, it's January, we're getting two new heroes this month in Faults. And then that fires immediately ignited again for me to look at the game and pay attention and watch for that to come out. Consistency doesn't have to be weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, whatever, but consistency of even that where they said for four quarters, each quarter we're going to have two new heroes, right? That's perfectly okay because then that's still something for your community to be excited about. And that's where Faults hurts is that there's nothing, we were excited for Iggy for how long, right? Well, months really. I'm not even talking about as long as he's been in the files, but even if we count since one up came out, right? Everyone's kind of going like, where's Iggy, where's Iggy, where's Iggy, where's Iggy? And it just burnt people out, waiting for it without any kind of information at all of when that was going to happen. Right, right? Whereas if you, again, if you say once a quarter, half, whatever it is, half a year, right? You give that community something, you give that community hope for one thing, right? Because when you don't communicate and you don't tell them stuff is coming down the line, it's really easy for people to go, well, they might just be abandoning this game, I'm out. In terms of consistency as well, when Iggy eventually did drop, nothing led into that. There wasn't a, hey, within a few days Iggy's coming out or hey, expect him within a certain timeframe. Having consistency of when you're mentioning something and then it coming out, or if you're just going to do surprise drops. Like it's fine if you do surprise drops, but that's if that's what you're known for. And from what I've heard about SMS, they at least had some like week before announcement, some week before reveal or some various different ways of revealing. So if it's inconsistent on when anything's coming out and then inconsistent on announcement about them coming out, that's one thing for me that I was like, I was in the discord and it was like, oh, Iggy's dropping tonight. Oh, okay, Iggy's dropping tonight. And then even as Viking mentioned, not every, and this is one thing that I've taken for granted, especially because I'm in each of these discords. I'm looking into these games because I'm passionate about all of them. As Viking mentioned, not everyone's going to want to do that or even be able to do that. So the ability to like, even if earlier that day there was a small patch and in fault game, they said Iggy coming tonight, like they did on discord, at least people log in and be like, oh, Iggy's dropping tonight. So they would know that because I heard during one of the partner panels for fault, some players didn't even know Iggy was out until somebody on the team picked him. So- Or Richter being back, or Richter being back. Exactly, so I think all of the games, all four of the games and even most other games need to have some form of in-game news outlet where they can say either what's on the patch notes or a link to patch notes or things to look forward to because not everyone's going to want to join a discord. Yeah. I mean, and one thing I too- That landing page is perfect for it too. Exactly. 100% it is. I mean, the thing too is like, I'm not taking for granted how hard this is.  I'm not saying that any of these things that we're suggesting are easy, but that's not the point. It's you're making a video game and you're asking people to pay money for it. Like there's just some level of expectation at this point in 2022 of looking at video games that you just have to meet if you want to be a successful gaming company. And I'm not saying it's easy because I know it's not easy. It's not easy doing any of these things. Like managing a community from a, you know, top down, what should we say? What should we say? You can, there's literally billion dollar companies that struggle with marketing because you just don't know what you should or shouldn't do and how the public is going to always receive it. And when you start looking across generations, like, okay, what's a boomer gonna think about this versus Gen Z or whatever, it's difficult. Like I'm not, I'm not even like sugarcoating how difficult it is, but it's still a problem you need to be tackling. And I think it makes it easier to tackle that problem if you're communicating efficiently with the people that you are wanting to engage with. And when you're lacking in communication, you're holding your cards too tight to your chest as a dev team, especially when you're this small or in this niche of a space, you're doing yourself a disservice. So I'm happy to see that most of these guys are starting to put more effort into that kind of stuff. Fault has been a little bit more active on their Twitter. They've been talking about freaking. I tell them every week what a boomer thinks of, their marketing can stop. Oh yeah. We had a good question from Kat in chat. Kat, with all the good questions tonight, asking about copyrights, like what's to stop these other games from copyrighting these characters? It's because Epic still owns the copyright for all of this content. They just sell it. They basically sell it for free on the Epic marketplace. Like instead of the cost button, it's just free. And so anybody can use them. These assets have been used in pornography games. They've been used in shoot them up games.  So anybody could use these assets. You could use them right now. When you're developing a game with Unreal Engine, you're also, I don't know what the percentage is, so I won't speculate on that, but there is a percentage that Epic gets when you reach a certain threshold. And that's kind of their way of paying for the copyrights. Paying for the licensing, I should say, not paying for the copyright. Paying for the licensing of these free assets is through that fee that gets kicked back to Epic when the time comes. When the time is right. I did post a couple of questions in our sheet that were from earlier. So if we're ready to start going into the questions. Yeah, let's set the questions up from the Chietz. Okay, I'll give you your first one. So Joshua Vaughn knocked this. He said, is UG planning on having a victory screen like Paragon tried to do for a couple patches? I guess this one's for Jelly. I'm not sure what victory screen he's talking about. Me neither. Maybe he can clarify, but in general, I mean, there was, there is a victory screen that's already in the game. Yeah, but like a good one. But like one that we've seen before. Is there going to be a victory screen? There is a victory screen. I'm not quite sure what the question is entailing. So maybe if JVN clarifies, then we can figure that out. The end of the match with all the heroes stood in front of the core. Oh, I can't comment when we're another on that one. Monetize on those victory poses. Add it, monetize those victory poses. Let's get Tracer's butt back. Let's get Malia on the Tracer's butt pose. Yeah, let's do that. Uh-oh, Owen. By the way, guys, I was talking to Owen earlier. If you guys want to see a victory screen like Paragon. What? Nice one. But Owen and I were talking earlier about doing this, like a show like this, but with anime and I was going to actually invite Viking for it. But if you guys want to see that, let me know in the chat. Yeah, I watch anime. Maybe we'll even see Owen's face. Oh, you want it? You want it on this too, Dapper? Let's do it. I think that would be a fun spinoff show since especially since we kind of benched beta males for the time being, I think it would be fun to get into some anime.  We do have one more. And I think this is still going to be going towards jelly. It's from Otto. He says, so question is the overseer class still a thing or no? Overseer class is still a thing. I promise you. Okay. Why would he ask such a question? The theory before new classes in general come to a theory. We want to kind of get the current seven classes up to snuff and the game up to snuff. We're worrying about other class additions, but the overseer class does still exist. This is for me to you. When can we expect a like updated game explanation video? Because the last one that you did was like forever ago. And I think a lot has changed visually. It's changed. Can we expect or maybe now, because I'm putting it into the universe, like an updated, like this is who we are. This is the type of game and where we're at currently update and like kind of like, you know, going over the myths that are that are available, right? For people to pay attention to and the different like, you know, class structures and stuff like that, you know, obviously it's so unique. Is that something that you and the team can put together in the near future? Or is that something you guys are already working on? Or? There's absolutely plans to update all of that content as we progress through development, right? We've always known that like the myth spotlights, for instance, those three alpha myth spotlights or that is labeled as such accordingly. Because we know that they're gonna change, the characters themselves are going to change. The models are going to change in the case of Talos. Visuals are gonna be updated. Abilities are gonna be updated. The map's gonna be updated. Like all of these things are going to be changing so much between now and like a full release that we know that those are gonna be updated throughout. I can't speak for like myth spotlights and stuff. I can't speak for those specifically and then those are gonna get updated. But things like gameplay and like where to go on the map and kind of the four, I think it was four videos we put up before the last test will be updated before another test goes out because we know that a lot of that has changed from the past year. So. The current videos, you can almost see them as like journal entries as in like, yeah, at this time, this is what we had planned. This is what we had going. So if you wanna see what we might have originally thought we were gonna do, this is really cool. And then of course they're gonna have to update it because how much might be changing. For a fun fact, for people that don't know this, if you actually go to Ethereal's YouTube, they actually have voices for characters that have not been out yet. So you can actually listen to those and those are really cool. So there's a lot to come out of Ethereal that's already planned ahead from what it seems, from what I've been researching into. And this is all public knowledge. I've got no back knowledge, not yet at least. I'm working on that. Oh God. Obviously I wouldn't be sharing it if I did know it. But like, to help advertise Ethereal a little bit, there's a lot that you can go out and already look up at the Undying Games website. You can look at the seven myths that already have something playable. And Talos, I don't know if that website has been updated for him yet. I don't think so. Not yet though. No. But you can look at those seven myths that are out. You can actually see what each individual class does. There's so much lore I haven't even touched yet because there's just so much that's interesting there. You can actually practice building items. Like there's already so much you can do to look into Ethereal. So if you really are interested, there is stuff to look into. And I would recommend for anyone to do that, that hasn't already because of how much has been released for a game that still has so much more to work on. And that's one of the reasons why I'm so excited for Ethereal is because there's already so much content and yet none of it is able to be used right now by the public. And that's what makes it so interesting. And I'm really excited to hopefully eventually get my hands on it. UG Dapper when? I was like talking to me back in the day. Goodness. Dude, it is. Actually, it's so funny because Dapper found out really, I feel like, about Ethereal last week. Oh, 100%. 100%. And he's dude, you guys don't always know this in chat, but like he's been like, I know he's already been picking the brains. I think you signed up for the Patreon already and everything. Yeah, I did. I've already on the Patreon. I bought it in. No, because you want to be honest, I think that's why we keep Ethereal, not just because we have Jelly on here, but I think the idea to keep Ethereal in the conversation amongst these other games is that this is for the minions. And so it's about overall the MOBA space and the third person MOBA space, which is why we don't have a problem talking about Dota and some of the other games that are more established and out there.  Because I thought I was pretty excited at one point, but Dapper's taking you to a whole other level of love and excitement. I've already made like a theoretical build for one of the characters. So I already want to try that out. But it might be changed when he's out. You need to start making YouTube videos, put them out. You need to start. You've got to have a 200 giga-theorial folder of information people you've found, but other people haven't. You've got to start making wild speculations. I can start doing that. I can start doing that because we have the voice lines already out there. So I could start talking about theoretical skills they might have, things that they can do, what class they might be. I think we actually did that one time. And we did that on ETE. Oh, yeah. Jalei Linneo asks of the four games, what do you think is the most new player friendly? I think that's really down to overprime or predecessor. I'm sort of leaning towards overprime. But mainly because of the faster feel of it. But as far as mechanics go, overprime and predecessor have kind of an equal amount of mechanics. But overprime does have one less tower. I don't know. I think the new player friendliness, honestly, I think in terms of just gameplay alone, there are about 50-50 in terms of how easily they are to pick up. 6-1. I think the thing that pushes overprime over the edge is they do have a tutorial. Not great, but they have one. They teach you how to ping. They teach you what objectives to take. They teach you how to deal damage. They choose all of those other things. That, to me, edges overprime over predecessor. And it gives you a training ground, and it teaches you how to buy. Which I didn't ever think was a thing. But every mobile I've played of these goons, is people are like, how do I open this shop? It literally says on your screen, press P. Press I. Press whatever you're going to press. Pick sports. But there's so much to look at. I think I would still fall into that level of overprime first and then predecessor second. But fault has done in this last patch, which again, was a terrible announcement and release as far as the bigger scheme of things. But they did a lot of quality of life fixes aimed at new players, which was something we were screaming at them for to have come free to play with when the big influx of new players were coming. I do think it's better. I still think it's not as good as the other. Just because overprime has a tutorial and a path to be able to gain. The hardest part about this, and this is still something I think they're all going to struggle, is none of them are really that new player friendly. Because the floor to playing a third person mobile like these is so high as it is. Because everything is a skill shot for the most part. All things are aiming. And you watch some of these videos and you have to jump over to be able to aim at a minion behind another minion. It's not point and click farming like it is in a lot of these other top down mobs. So inherently in that space, it's going to be more difficult. I do think overprime does the best, but I think Fault put forth a good effort in this last patch to try and improve that experience. So I do want to give them a little bit of kudos for that. They're just overall more difficult, Fault is, I think. It is, it's harder game. It's a harder learning curve. Here's a spicy question from Rich J. Are you got, y'all okay if the release date for all these remakes shifted to 2023? Yes, because that would mean ethereals coming out in 2023. Oh. Good one. Good answer, good answer. Oh, you heard it. You heard it here. Hey, there we go. December 31st.  So if they have to push it back, I guess I would be okay with it, but goddamn, I've been tracking these games longer than pretty much any other content creator out there.   Yep. The 2023 release, if both games do it, if both Over Prime and predecessor do it, it would be okay, but if only one does it, whichever one does it will inherently have such a bad start because the other ones will have months ahead and show that they were potentially ready earlier. Again, depending, you know, the product of the first release.  And then when we get to 2023, it might be delayed again. So it's just with how many times these games have been delayed and set back, having another one at this point when both of them have promised early access 2022, it's just breaking another promise more than anything. And that's, I think the biggest thing is if you're gonna delay it, right? You need to communicate it early, not the week before the end of the year, communicate it early, communicate why, and communicate when. Here's your Christmas present, 2023 release. Exactly, right? Don't do that. You need to say, you know what?  Because that's assuming everything goes super well, you're releasing around Christmas. And the likelihood of that happening in indie development slim to zero. And so from that, then you need to say why you're delaying it. Something fundamentally broke. Our backend absolutely collapsed. Our whatever it is. Work to crush these games. Right, whatever it is, communicate why you're delaying it and then communicate when you have, when your updated date is, right? Because going from delay to delay to delay to delay.  And like it's just, it's just the worst. I think delaying the game for each, well for the two that we're talking about that would be delayed, hurts them differently. I think if Paragon came out before predecessor, it hurts predecessor, uh-huh. I'm sorry, overprime, sorry. If overprime, apologize, ADHD. If overprime came out before predecessor, I don't think, because predecessor had to delay the release, I don't think that hurts the predecessor as much. And I think because the people who are waiting for predecessor tried overprime, weren't necessarily bought in on overprime, and so it's not gonna necessarily hurt their launch. On the other hand, because they'll still have fault to play if they wanted to keep playing a game similar to predecessor. But the other way around, I think if predecessor comes out and has a really good launch, overprime's launch might be hurt by that. Because I don't think, while I do think they're two fundamentally different games, overprime's, I think excitement is the fact of how like, bursty and fast and exciting it is, you know what I mean? But if predecessor comes out and meets all the expectations sooner than overprime, I think the people who bought in and tried predecessor are gonna have a harder time, harder transitioning over to overprime in the same thing. Like if they ended up having to push back release. So I think that the communication matters a lot. I mean, obviously this is talked into a vacuum. There's so many other variables that could come into play of why they needed to push back and it could hurt or not hurt for whatever reasons. But those are my guess two hot takes on it that I think it hurts predecessor less if they push out and overprime comes out. If they both push out, then it doesn't matter for either one. Oh, well, I think it matters in a PR mindset, but anybody who's waiting for either of these and they are pushing it back for good reasons, like Mingyu said, it won't matter. The people are still gonna wait to play it. It is what it is, right? Like it's fine. We've seen lots of games, way bigger games, push, push and push and it's a bummer and it's annoying, Half-Life 3 win. You know, there's a community that will still stick around. I mean, if Valve were to say, hey, we're putting out Half-Life in 2024, dude, the internet would explode, right? Like it's just, so yeah, I think order of operations matters a lot. Communication, of course, matters a lot in any kind of delay, but I think it would hurt predecessor less if overprime came out before predecessor versus the other way around. That's just my take on it, only because I think predecessor can actually capitalize on both styles of market, whereas overprime I feel like has invested more in being their version of the kind of like burstier, more action-packed version of MOBA. If predecessor can steal some of the aspects while still keeping the pacing to a traditional MOBA and has all the visual effects and, you know, gameplay loop clarity that they're trying to improve on, I think predecessor can actually maybe even steal the thunder, at least in the Western market of overprime. Eastern market is a toss-up. I don't know enough about that market. I would guess that overprime has a lock on it regardless, but easy. And actually that exact aspect is why I think it's flipped. And why I disagree. Oh, interesting. That's fine. If overprime releases first, they have more time to reach the Western audience before predecessor comes out. Because they win favor because they'll be, just like fault has to an extent, right? There are absolutely people that were like, well, nothing's out, I'll play fault and have fallen in love with it, even if they thought they wouldn't at first. And overprime, being able to pull that away from predecessor would be huge, whereas I don't think predecessor pulls the Eastern audience away from overprime in any way, shape, or form. Yeah, I agree. At least not initially. And so that's, I think overprime only wins if they release first in comparison to predecessor. And whoever releases in console first is the clear. Yeah, oh yeah. No, no, no, whichever has smoke landings. Remember, we're landings. Then console. My bad, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But purely landing. I will now actually disagree with that. I'm gonna cut you off right there. No, no, we're rolling up on two hours here. Let's start closing it out. People want us to keep talking about it. Well, there's next week. But I'm not going to. We got next week. If you have questions, leave them in the video. Once that post, you can leave them in the comments. You can DM me directly. You can DM Viking Jedi, Jelenees, Dapper, whoever. Whoever, you know, just give them the questions and I'll put it in the document for next week. Your Discord server, your Discord server that you link to all the time and people can absolutely jump into it and ask for it. Because you have a Discord? Migos has a Discord? Did you guys know that? Migos has a Discord. Yeah, it's always linked down below. Join Discord. It's discord.com slash Jelenees. That's me. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, there you go. But that is about, good about wrapping up. Let's go just real quick. Just plug whatever, your YouTube channels, Twitch channels, Viking, you just got your Twitter, which we'll have linked in the video description below. Yeah, send me tweets. Ask me questions on Twitter. I'll either respond to them or I'll save them for the videos if I think it's viable enough. But I've been actually having a decent amount of conversations recently on Twitter with varying people. So it's been fun. Nice, nice. Yeah, please hit me up on Twitter. But I'm also active in most of these Discord. So if you have stuff there, I'll probably see it too. But yeah, Twitter, thank you. Dapper? I'm on YouTube for a majority of right now until any of these games release. So when it comes to my YouTube, expect ethereal content and theorycrafting and stuff like that coming out soon. Yeah. Because I do actually, considering that idea now, that actually is going to be something that we're going to put effort into coming up soon. So you're in so much trouble, Jelly.  I'm not in trouble. I'm just going to send him my YouTube to make sure he lives up to expectation. Hey, I don't need to be you. I'm just going to do my own thing. Yeah, there you go. There you go. I mean, do you have a hashtag symphonies in chat? I don't think so, you know? No, this is my only second time here and yet here we are. Oh, gosh. So let's go. Jelly? Jellynees on YouTube and or Twitch. And yeah, that's it, I think. I'm probably going to start streaming more. I've been wanting to.  So what are you going to do? I'm sure it'll happen soon. I'm sure it'll happen soon. 10 foil torch. 10 foil torch. I like it. I like it. All right, that is going to close it out for this week. Thank you to everybody who came out for the live stream and thank you if you're watching this in the video format. But that is going to be the Four of the Minions crew signing off. You guys have a good one. Have a good day. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Hit the button, mangers.