Especially for you. Thanks for the tea, sis. I checked the weather after a statement this morning. Plenty of afternoons under storms in July. Which is why it's so hot now. If only we haven't put that so far away. We have customers on, uh... Hey, Ducky. What time is your train back to Taipei tomorrow? Uh, eight or nine? Maybe three? Before ten, anyway. So, what time? Before ten. How am I supposed to give you a lift to the station, and then you won't tell me? No need. I can get there myself. I'm sure you won't miss your train. I won't. But if I do, I'll skip the next one. I'll get back to Taipei in a problem. Any news? Are you all right for cash? Yes. Let me know if you were around. I'm okay. Hey, Ducky Huang, the only reason I'm asking is Dad told me to look after you just before he died. He was worried. I'm an adult now. I'm an adult now. Oh, please. How long has it been? Nine years since Dad passed. And you're still acting on commercials, playing the bubble teas, playing the bubbles in bubble tea, the beef and beef noodle soup. What kind of a plan for your life? I forgot. And you've been nine years. Time flies. Who are you?  You only know how to eat. I have a green pig. You get that from Dad. What'd you get him today? Fish stew. From where? The place on Bao An Road. Remember? When he picked us up after school, he'd go the long way around so we could stop there. So long? Yeah. Didn't phones go downhill? Uh-uh. The spread's just different. It's run by Bao Song. What do you mean, taste? It's for Dad. Well, didn't you get extra? Well, on your eyes, Sean. Just a little nibble down the line. The other day, I passed by Bao An Road and saw a new place. Catacord had two phones called Yefong. So I stopped there. Do you see how dark this stew is from the fish belly oil? That's how you know, huh? It's perfect. This firm yet springy texture of the sailfish in the thick broth that luxuriously envelops the belly meat. Wow, Ducky.  I miss this taste. It's delicious, huh? I'm in sixth grade. I'm in seventh. Dad picks me up after school.  We sit down to this meal. Every time Uncle Twin says...  Well, dad teases. Well, so when you're dissecting that course like a corn, I slurp the whole thing down to the bottom of the bowl. Just eat a little bit to set on your stomach. We still have dinner later. And I tell Uncle Twin, I want... What do you want? To drink... Shang Chun black tea. When you eat fish stew or sticky rice cakes, you need something to cut through the grease. So will you turn down the alleyway? We're a cup of refreshing black tea. Oh, I wonder, who went first thing this morning? I know what dad likes to drink this stuff. Have I told you this? About what? The date dad passed. I took care of all paperwork. As I left the hospital, I felt thirsty and had to get a cold drink. Turned the corner, and there was Uncle Twin. What are you doing here, Ducky? Uh, it's dad. I see. I wonder why they moved him. It's dad, right? He didn't make it this time. He's been released from this world. Well, it's a good thing. His suffering is over. Yeah, it's dragged on too long. Well, you and your sister will have to care for each other now. Sure. She's been doing all the work. That's good.  Hey, Uncle Twin! Hey, don't worry. Where are you going now? Uh, getting the bus back to Taipei. I have an audition tomorrow. Wow.  Uh, no, not really. It's to play the papaya in papaya milk. Well, at least it's the lead role. Uncle Twin. Come on. I'll give you a lift to the bus stop. So Uncle Twin gave me a lift to the bus station, and we parked outside Chuang-Chuan to get some black tea. He didn't say anything for a long time. I'm sorry, Uncle Twin. It's alright. It's been so many years. It's okay, Pa. Pa treated me like family, and so did you and your sister. That was the last time I saw Uncle Twin. Well, I keep an eye on him on Facebook. You're still on Facebook? I thought it was just for old people. Ducky! We're here. This is a mausoleum. Which floor is that on? How will you be able to find your way on your own? I'll come every time with you. What if something happens to me? It won't. This way. Row 6, box 28. What's that? How could that be? Someone's been here. That is shout-out Temple vegetable dumplings. Oh, shh. Nice work, coroner. They're hard to get a hold of. I've never managed that. They go on sale at 5, 10 a.m. and the stall closes before 10. Must be Twin. Must be Uncle Twin. He knows what Dad likes to eat. While he's still asleep, the two of them sneak out to shout-out Temple for vegetable dumplings. So Uncle Twin is still? After all this time, Uncle Twin still feels about Dad. It's been nine years. Can't let go. He posts on Facebook about making Dad's favorite dishes on Dad's birthday. Then he brings some for you. Which is a waste. He should invite you around instead. Dad's gone. What else can he do? Yes, Dad's gone. May? Don't we have gay marriage now? Oh, yes. I think I saw it on the news. So does that mean... What are you saying, Ducky? A ghost marriage. Huh?   Uncle Twin still feels so strongly for Dad. He can't stop thinking about him, even after nine years. He couldn't do anything before, but now that it's legal, he can go back. You are crazy.   I know. Of course I know. But... But what? Just because we have gay marriage here doesn't mean it's the same over there. You know, if we don't have gay marriage in the afterlife, what's the point? I really wanted him to get married. I know. What? We'll cast lots. Right. We can just ask Dad directly. Well, I didn't know we'd think about that before. You ask. Dad always said you were more reliable. I'm here to see you and Ducky. We brought you your favorite fish stew. Not from the nasty tasting place. I got it from the good takeout place, Dad. And Ducky got you your strong chinti and the vegetable dumplings they're from Uncle Twin. Fine. Anyway, we wanted to ask you, now that we can do it over here, where you are, can man marry other man? Give us a sacred lot for yes. Sacred lot? Sacred lot. That means yes? Right. This is amazing. How do we know if Dad wants to? Of course he wants to. They were together so long. We should ask. Consent is important. Fine. I'll ask.  Yeah, okay. You see those strats on temple dumplings? I know they're your favorite, but you know how hard they are to get. You have to wake up earlier than I did. Ducky. Uncle Twin went out first thing in the morning to get you those dumplings.  Dad, do you want to marry Uncle Twin? Give us a sacred lot for yes. Smiling lot. Smiling lot. I guess Dad must be happy. Ask again. Sacred lot and we'll make it happen. Smiling lot. Look how happy you are. Dad can stop smiling. Move over. I'll ask. How you and Uncle Twin feel about each other. We couldn't do anything about that before. But now we can. If you want to marry him, give us a sacred lot. Dad, you must be overjoyed. Another smiling lot. Well sis, he must have fallen over from laughing so hard and now he can't speak at all. He's so happy. I can stop worrying. What about what? That he'll be all alone over there. Now I know how Uncle Twin. It's double sevens next week. Chinese Valentine's. We'll go visit Uncle Twin. What a great surprise for him. Definitely. This morning he posted on Facebook about heading home to cook the groceries he just bought. It smells so good. That must be Uncle Twin's cooking. Remember? He's a girl. He's just cooking for himself. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. He's a regular cook. Coming. Coming. Surprise. Ducky, Jen. Uncle Twin. You too.  Ducky, Jen. And you're as beautiful as ever. You don't look a day older, Uncle Twin. I guess it's been nine years. I've only seen Jen's baby on Facebook. Ducky, but why don't you on Facebook? No way. Facebook is just so old. Ducky! How have you been, Uncle Twin? Not bad. Not bad. What are you two doing here? We have something important to tell you, Uncle Twin. Right. Something important? It's a surprise. What kind of surprise do you have with me? Come in. Come in. Uncle Twin, I wanted to tell you, we know everything. What do you know? Why are you two being so mysterious? Uncle Twin, we came here for the sake of your happiness. Uncle Twin, we saw the vegetable dumplings. Vegetable dumplings, right? I visited your dad on the ninth anniversary of his death. So I wanted to tell him what's happened. You were with dad for more than 20 years, but your relationship had to be secret. We were happy. I can still see your face at the hospital that day. I can't let go of it. That's all in the past. So we thought we couldn't let all those regrets continue. We got a plan for the festival of worlds. So you and dad can have a home. What are you talking about? I don't understand. We want to give you two a ghost marriage. A ghost marriage? Relax, Uncle Twin. It's simple. We Google it. We have everything we need here. Incessual tablets. Incense. Paper clothes. Shirt. Trousers. Nutshow cups. Dumplings. Longevity noodles. See? Everything's perfect. You're always funny. You looked it up, Uncle Twin. You just need to like the incense. Did you ask your dad? Of course he did. What did he say? He laughed three times.  What do you mean, Uncle Twin? Hang on. I'm in the middle of cooking something. Let me turn off the flame. What are you cooking, Uncle Twin? It smells so good. They pot pie and steak. Pot pie and steak? I didn't know you could cook such a western... Marco. These are Fa's daughters. We're out of red wine. Would you mind going to the supermarket? Who was that? That. That. That's my new friend. New friend. What kind of new friend? Hi. How did you meet? A few months ago, I downloaded that thing. You know, that new thing that people are using now. That app, the black and yellow one. That's it. You know, anyway, that's how I met Marco. What kind of app are you talking about? Grindr. Swipe right. Ducky, don't tell me you're on it too. I'm not. A friend showed me. Someone sent him a picture of him 8 inches. Uncle, don't go for any old 8 inches. I wouldn't, honestly. I don't think I could fit 8 inches of my... I wouldn't fit just anyone, Uncle.  We both know that. I didn't expect to be so lucky to meet someone that gave me my fifties. Imagine meeting a love of my life on Grindr. But how much do you know about Mr.... His name's Marco. Marco. He has an English name. What about Dad, Uncle's one? Well, I don't have anything to apologize to Father about. That's why I went to see him. I didn't want him to worry. Worry? The truth is, Father comes to me in my dreams at night. And every time he says, he's worried about me being all alone. So when I met Marco, and he turned out to be a good guy, and he started getting serious, I went out to my father's favorite vegetable dumplings, and I told him I had to met someone. And then we can care for each other, and so that he could stop worrying. And when I went to bed that night, Father came again. And in this dream, he was standing at the foot of my fence, smiling at me. And then he left.  Stop worrying. It's been so long, nine years. I'm too much on you. Oh, Uncle's when? Yes. You and Marco have to get married. Ducky! It's been so difficult, but after all that struggling, you're able to get married. And it long lasts. You've met the right person. Of course you should get married as soon as possible. That's right, Uncle's when, at your age, once you meet someone decent, it's time to get married. You can roll together. Girls, we've talked about it, and it's a possibility, but let's wait and see. Marriage isn't its own thing. It affects lots of other things. It isn't love. It isn't life. It's just a social thing, and it's an administrative thing. More or less like politics. Think about it. If Taiwan ever becomes part of China, I don't know if the will or when. Once a database of people in gay marriages become a blacklist, a blacklist of people with whom the Chinese government could never tolerate. If that day comes, what if queer people end up getting re-educated like the Uyghurs? And queer families are put into concentration camps. Will all end up like poor people in Xinjiang hurried together, taught how to think, brainwashed.  At dawn, we get up to sing communist anthems. They drag us from ourselves to rooms without surveillance cameras and gang leaders. They teach us that throughout history, marriage has to spin for one man and one woman. We self-criticize until we don't even trust ourselves. Then I'll have to put on a fake smile, take a woman by the hand, thank the party for putting me on the right track and fixing my sexual orientation. I'll smile and smile and praise the party. Do you really think that these things could happen? Hi, everyone. If you are standing, please feel free to come to the front and sit on the floor. I realize it's not the most inviting thing, but there is room. This is Liu Jian Guo, the playwright of the next piece you're about to see. Why don't we get married? And I'm Jeremy Tiang, the translator. We wanted to give you a bit of the context for the next play, which contains excerpts of Taiwanese opera. This is a form in which female performers regularly take on male roles. In some of the excerpts in this play, Jian Guo will be the singing voice of the actors while they speak the words in English. In other excerpts, they will recite the songs as first. So although we'll be speaking the songs in this English reading, in a full production, they would be sung in full Taiwanese opera style, which you'll just have to imagine for tonight. But we hope this conveys the intention of the playwright. Thank you and enjoy the show. Sir, His Highness has completed his morning duties and is hastening back to the palace. He will be here momentarily. What is that? This morning, His Highness had to depart from his morning duties. But you were asleep upon his sleeve.  That sleeve to Dong Xian. Toxicated by the moonlit and leapt by the fragrant cut sleeve. For Dong Xian, so much affection in one person. The mountains and rivers, I would spend my entire life with Lin Zhao Ai, middle of rehearsing a new show when my girlfriend proposed to me. Oh yes, we're both Taiwanese opera performers. On stage, I play a man, but in real life, I'm a woman. As for you, Wen, she... Shumble. Look at this. Gentle wind strokes the water. A pair of lovebirds drift by, bound together forever. Your heart's eternally entwined. If I were a woman, would you be my love? You are perfect inside and out.  It started five years ago. I'm sure of that. The moment I felt my heart stir at the sight of this woman playing the role of a woman, playing a man to seduce a woman, playing a man. I'm not sure what it was about her that attracted me. Maybe that's how Yong Shan Bo himself felt. Male and female, female and male, all contained within her, floated elegantly to her own rhythm. The green hills and jade willows smiled at my foolishness. The past was sweet as twilight clouds as I went joyously to Ying Tai. At that moment, when I realized Ying Tai was a woman, I hurried to her in bliss. Along the way, my memories returned and warmed my heart. Shan Bo. It is I, Ying Tai. I will make it. I will take your hand in marriage, drop by drop to the present moment. We wait for the clouds to start and light to appear. That young guy. And handsome too. How should we go around to this stage door and tip her? Like how you brought me backstage as a kid? No one tips our prep performers anymore these days. Maybe they do. The Butterfly Lovers is a very traditional show after all. Let me see. Where's the stage door? No need for that. What's up with you? You bring me to see a show acting all weird. Am I wrong? There's something I need to tell you. Let's grab a coffee. You're lying. I don't like this one at all. Quick, let's book it. That's the one. This one's fully booked too. Damn it. Is there a queer in Taiwan getting married right now? It's impossible. Don't forget, straight people get married too. So, seeing as we can't find a place we're happy with, maybe this whole wedding thing isn't so urgent? Nothing. Oh my God. Married. A wedding at last. This is so sudden. Are we moving too fast? The redness is rising. I'm feeling with fear. Is this really me? Am I still here? Me? A wife? Can I really commit? Am I really ready? Is this really it? What will my friends say? Will they relate? Can I deal with this? Is this my fate? Am I really getting married? Hey, do you think we need to invite Pay Phong? Are you that close? Not really, but she's tight because Xinhua got way. So, if we invite Xinhua and got way and she finds out. By that logic, we don't have to invite Kuli Yi too. What? I haven't invited her? Oh, please.  What if we don't? It'll be so awkward. When we see her. She won't even know we got married. Oh, you think we can keep it a secret with 27 women on the guest list?  They're not going to get their mouth shut. Wait, it's so long now. Gay marriage is here. We've got so many problems, so much fear. We'll tell our friends, is that too many guests? Booking a venue. Any requests? No one warned us. No one said how hard this would be. I'd rather be dead. Should we elope? Go to city hall? Just call it off. Or just don't call. Will the new law stand? No one can say, this is too much. Make it go away. I don't pay for me, you're getting me big. Hello? Saying logic is couldn't be consistent. We hardly know her. Maybe I should ask my masseuse and our doorman. If our doorman wants to come to our wedding, I wouldn't mind. Why do we need a bunch of people we hardly know to come wish us well? And the ones we actually do want to share our happiness, whether all busy or not coming. Who are you talking about? Ting Yu. Also, Ziyun, Shuhui, my parents. Haven't told your parents? No. Sorry. I don't really know your mom, but you came out. Successfully, you came out. Four years ago.  Maybe she hasn't. I don't know if you don't know. Or maybe it's better if I never find out. Let's talk about something else. You can't go on avoiding the issue. I'm not avoiding anything. It's all right. Hey, what do you think of these invitations? I'm really getting married. Am I ready for this? Am I ready to face the chaos of marriage? I'm really getting married. I'm really getting married. How about this? We don't know if we're going to get married. I'm really getting married. How about this? We'll use the invitations you like and you can go on avoiding your parents. But I'll handle all higher-win storm flashmills. No van. What does this have to do with anything? Hey, no van. I'm begging you. They're really good. They're just okay. And very expensive. Can't we use recorded music? We don't even know how the venue will be or what sound equipment they'll have. Maybe they won't have a van. What kind of wedding doesn't have a van? Oh, my God. How many guests? What should we wear? Who's doing what? Who even cares? Why are we fighting? Is this the end? Why is this costing so very much? Who needs tradition? Hey, let's go Dutch. Why are we fighting? Is this the end? Why don't we get song to help out? You know the accompanist from our last show? No, Taiwan needs opera at our wedding. Well, we're not, we're not doing that. Who on earth can afford to rent a venue, get catering and take wedding photos and print invitations and buy a cake and hire a van? It's, it's too much. Why do we go through this when we get married? It's not always like this. Is it? I think we should maybe think about saving up for a few more years. Yes. Right. Maybe we should avoid the issue for a few more years. I'm not avoiding anything. You've never gone through anything like this.  You've never heard those words coming from your mother's mouth.  You never saw her eyes filled with disgrace because she knew what you just said was true. You never had your family turn away and suddenly become so very far. You never heard the words your parents say that landed in your heart each one a scar. If we want to get married, these problems, you'll have to face them sooner or later. I'm not sure I'm really ready for this. We have a show today. I have to get ready. So, hey, you've seen the show and we've had our coffee. What did you want to say to me? Mom, mine proposed to me. What? You are being so mysterious. I thought for sure something had happened. But why did you tell me when he came to dinner last month, huh? We could have planned the wedding together.  I'm just happy. Quick, get married. I'm on the grandchild. Well, I don't know about that. You don't like him? He seems to treat you so well. I like him very much and he loves me and takes good care of me but, Mom, I'm going to ask you can you answer me honestly? Where is it? Do you ever regret marrying Dad? Why do you want to know? Remember how I told you everything when I was a kid? Well, I'm not a kid anymore. You can't tell me stuff too. How it was for women back then. When the time came, you got married and had kids. That's just how it was. But it wasn't Dad who we're in love with. Am I right? You actually like women, don't you? Did you say it? It's fine. It's fine. Society is so liberal these days. When I was a kid, you used to bring me to see Taiwanese opera. I remember you always liked that actress who played young men. Yeah, Feng Hua. Right. I really like her a lot back then. I did. I was obsessed. But then you stopped liking opera. Was that because she retired? I still like Taiwanese opera. But the same songs, the same old time and tunes stirring so many thoughts. Who can know? The same stage, the same gongs and drums. I search for you in all other faces. Her eyes lowered, the song flowing. Four seasons turned upside down. A hard song a single tear in the midst of a thunderstorm. A sky full of stars but one twinkle differently to the rest. A lonely night alone by lamb light woodwind blowing. Married at seventeen looking at your childhood home. The spring breeze has passed.  Sit in the audience weeping for the poor thing on stage. Don't be scared. No one knows. Liu Xin sits center stage. A minister addresses him. Your Highness! In this day and age the ruler of this kingdom must consider his duty to his people. His stewardess of the land. He cannot act out of selfish emotions. To appoint Dong Xiang as the grandmaster of war. Oh, Your Highness! You obey the heavens above. You respond to the people below. But now you have succumbed to the lust of male flesh and overturned the natural order. I fear this will destroy the legitimacy of the throne. You want me to do? Put Dong Xiang to death!  Officers to the dungeon with him! Your Highness! We risk death to come here all for the sake of this great kingdom. Please! Forgive your humble servant for stepping out of line when I say... Officers! Arrest Dong Xiang! Your Highness! My love! Let him go! This is treason. Are you turning against me? Wake up, Your Highness. Stand to your foolish behavior. You have lost the face of this court. The Empress Dowager has issued a secret order. Look! I understand. Take Dong Xiang. To the dungeon. There weren't so many choices. Now you have days straight, bisexual, all these words. I've only learned them by hearing your new young people talk. I didn't think that much about it. All I knew was every time I went to the opera it made me so, so happy. Sometimes I just look at her and want to smile. As I smile my tears would flow. So many sad times. And she was the one by my side. Maybe it's not that simple. I know what you're thinking. But when we got married in those days it was different from now. I didn't marry your dad out of love. The old folk said to do it and we got married. Would you still marry dad? Your father and I supported each other. An ordinary household choose again. It's not like I would have married the actress. There was just a beautiful image I had in my heart. So what is marriage given for? Is it just another layer of bureaucracy or duty or insurance or... I think all we could do is find a sort of bold. A bold? If you put things in. What do you call that? A container? Right. Just a place to put our love. I found my container on stage. I could really love each other. You need a container too to keep your love safe. Whether that's marriage or living together or whatever you have to find your own answer. In the dungeon Liu Xin enters. The Dong Xian books escalate and weep. My darling When I see my love tears stream down and I could tear the world apart. Such beauty so harshly treated. Who will hear my lament? I don't wish for riches or glory if we could fly away together. Together all four seasons of the year finding new lands for us. The heartless rain assaults us tears shimmer before my eyes the universe fills with stars and for an instant comets collide. A decree from the emperor the Grand Minister of War Dong Xian has bewitched the monarch besmirched the court and brought misfortune to the state. This would normally be grounds for beheading. Yet in acknowledgement of his past service his sentence is commuted to exile. He must leave the palace and never set eyes on the emperor again. This is grace indeed from the Dowager. The emperor has pleaded to preserve your life. I wish you were not you and I were not I so we could be two ordinary people in love. I don't long for high office I don't want your precious jewels and gold I wish we were peasants an ordinary couple.  Will we follow all the old traditions? Will the dowry be sufficient? How many guests should we invite? Will there be too many gifts? And what if we quarrel about these little things arguing from morning to night? An ordinary couple still has problems don't you agree? The most important thing is that you're with me. These troubles don't matter they don't mean a thing. My darling gets us through winter to spring. Is it so different about this show today mom? Is it mean to traditional stories? Do you think that's okay? Mom? Oh you're on your phone I see you don't like it. Shhh Let me figure this out. What is this? Lean shall I... Wait, that's the actress playing Thomsen. Is this her Instagram? Hang on mom. Since when do you have an Is that account? When the time is not my call for dinner we help you set it up. Look, am I following her? Right. So, she's my follower. No, you are her follower. Oh, right. Right. I'm not really following her. I just think the young lady is very good at acting. She's carrying on a fine tradition. The red balloon. 2049. The living room is filled with cardboard moving boxes. A large bookcase partly covers a window. Long room entrance sits on the laundry unbuckings his shirt and plugs power cables into his body. He blows up a red balloon timing himself. He repeats this several times until he's surrounded by red balloons. Karen enters with her feet. Sorry to link you for that. It's fine. When you get to my age you just fall asleep sitting here. It's been hard on you. But look, the balloons are getting bigger and bigger and they're going well. If only I could change the rest of my organs to artificial ones too. That would be so much easier. Don't talk like that. You still have one of your own lungs. You want to treasure it. Karen, I'm just old. Don't treat me like some patient. Professor, the doctor reminded you not to move when you're charging. It's dangerous. I'll pluck these out, alright? I was fully charged a while ago. Forget it. I'll just stay plugged in for now. Thanks for all your help. It's a good thing you're sitting around. Shijun said he'd be here a little later. He told you that? Yes, I told him you decided to move into the retirement home. Why'd you go and tell him that? Professor, how do you want to see Shijun? My son has been gone for my life for two years. I went to his house and he wouldn't even see me. What could I say to him? He gave me a letter to pass to you, remember? That thing? I threw it away as soon as I read it. Oh. Did he mention the surgery to you? Um... Fine. Help me talk some sense into him. Tell him to forget about that. What's it called? Sexual orientation reassignment surgery? I don't think I'm the right person. He's just running away from his problems.  I know, Professor. He blames every problem he has on his homosexuality. You know, the most things in life have nothing to do with whether you like men or women. Besides, genetic surgery has astronomical risks, not to mention it's illegal to find a way to help me tell him. What could I say to him? Shijun loved drawing when he was a kid. He scribbled all over that wall one time and we passed out and we saw it. But it was too cute to cover up, so we let him keep going. Finally, the whole thing was coming in color. I know. You told me that you accumulated too much stuff so you had to move the bookcase and then you couldn't see it. A few years ago, you redecorated and forgot to tell the painters so they covered it in white. Well, the strange thing is, even though it was covered, it's just a white wall, I could still see the colors swirling all around it. They're still there, underneath. Shijun loved in his house. I was planning to leave it to him. All the while he was growing up, he made all sorts of arrangements for it, all was for his own good. And yet, young Shijun went against you at every turn, stumbling down his own path, not happy until he was bruised all over. I really regret it. If I had known how this would turn out, I'd have been stricter with him. We had it all set up for him, but he insists on suffering his own way. He's been going through a rough time. He lost his job, then his boyfriend left him, and he needs time to accept that. You and your husband, now he only has one of his two fathers left. Let's have some tea. Carrie starts rinsing the cups. I know all of that, but I don't understand it. Could I ask you to do something for me, Professor? When Shijun gets here, could you have a proper talk with him? Did Shijun say anything to you about his dad? Your dad? Never mind. Carrie forced the first brew into a cup, then wet the teapot with it. The color of this red clay pot is really mellowing. You've had this for decades, haven't you? My father left it to me. It must be at least a hundred years old. It's beautiful. You have to use clay pots. If you neglect them, they lose their shine. That's true. I can't handle these things right now. It's a good thing you're around. I'm always happy to help, Professor. It should be family, though. I'm here. Same thing. There was a time when I thought you'd be my daughter in law. It hurts me to see you like this. The good thing Shijun has you to take care of him. We're old friends. At least I can do it. No.  But to be a late bloomer, so you got hurt. That was a long time ago, and he didn't have a choice about a lot of it. You shouldn't let him have his way either. You'll catch his depression. No, Shijun's always been good to me, and he's not depressed. Did he really not say anything to you? About what? Nothing. For the past two years, whenever I wanted to know how he's doing, I've had to ask you.  Professor, I... tea's ready. It's good like this. Things going well. Very well. Thanks for recommending me. I'm glad it suits you. Not like... let's not bring that up. What are you researching now? Editing artificial genes through nanotech AI so we can induce developmental shifts and establish rules for the way they mutate. Hang on. Isn't that house area? Since when were you working on it? We're in the same research team. Stop depending on other people. I've got something to show you. Okay. Lang Yong goes over to the bookcase. Help me move this, huh? Huh? Lang Yong shows her where to push the bookcase. She tries her best, but he doesn't move any more. I'm sorry, Professor. Wait a moment. He wanted to show me behind the shop. It's... He starts searching through the cardboard boxes. Shijun enters with large tools on his face and arms. You got here just in time, Shijun. Help me move this bookcase. What for? Professor Lang says there's something behind it. What kind of thing? Your drawing. Something you did when you were a kid that fell down bad. Come on. She was so uncareful and tried to move it. We bought it. We thought we bought you lots of paper, but you never touched it. You only wanted to scribble on the wall. One time only, you did an actual drawing of that park outside. It was really beautiful. You put a rainbow and a red balloon. All that green grass, and your daddy and I was there, too. It was like heaven. Your daddy loved that picture. He had a brain. Put it on top of the bookcase. He said, you made our family complete. Everything was perfect. Shijun and Karen are unable to move it. Forget it. Look, Shijun. Are these the marks your dad made? To show how tall you were? Daddy made those. Shijun. I'll make some more. Don't get a few bottles of mineral water. The chlorine tastes in this tap water really needs two weeks. Oh, but I brewed them on this filter. Just go. Right. Would you, too, like anything to eat? Karen is about to exit when Shijun touches her arm. Could you? Right. I'll get some.  Shijun picks up a framed newspaper cutting and carefully studies it. Miracle? Coincidence? A family of three. All homosexuals.  Had a son through a surrogate who turned out to be gay, too. Attracting media attention and presenting a new model in the era of alternative families. Why did you keep this ridiculous article? Our family was happiest then. From then on, we were recognized no matter where we were.  Long Yun accidentally lets go and the red balloon in his hands whizzes through the air. Shijun picks up the deflated balloon and returns it. Are those new? Does that matter? You're free to get a tattoo if you like, but on your face. I like it very much. It gets people's attention. So they see me. It continues blowing balloons. Still. Come help me have a look at this. I haven't a feeling so well they do. The battery just isn't charging. The alarm won't go off in a second. Let me have a look. How'd you feel down? How could I feel? I'm charging. Why don't we install a computer receiver? That way you'd be able to monitor your own artificial organs. No, thank you. Put one more gadget in me and I would be basically a robot. He'll keep you alive. It's not that great to live a long time. When I was dating your daddy, I promised him I'd live longer than him so that I wouldn't have to abandon him. Who knew I'd be keeping my promise this well? That was 40 years ago. What now? Why do I have to keep clinging on? As long as these little machines keep working, you'll live forever. The alarm sounds. That's happened quite a few times. It wakes me up at night. Turn it off. Sure, sir. Silence is the alarm. The batteries are old. The display says full, but they're only half charged. I knew it. I've made you an appointment, Dad. The medical technician will come round and change your batteries. Hang on. Even if we leave them in, the batteries will never charge. That's okay. Just let it charge. It's been a long time since you called me Dad. Really? When your dad was still around, you called me Daddy. I've decided you're so much like your daddy's, y'all. Your looks, your talent, your stubbornness, and you're kind of not like him.  Dad, I've made up my mind. I'm going to have the surgery. I'm pulling out the cables. Just keep an eye on the time. Do I need to remind you that surgery is a need? Sure, the animal trials were successful, but they're not allowed to test it on humans. I don't think anyone would take the risk. I've made an application to the court. They'll be a hero. I'll pose out a big stack of documents and start reading. Humanitarian considerations? What do you think you are? A refugee or something? I don't understand. What's so good about being strange? I just want to decide for myself. Decide what? What do you want to decide? You know what people said when I was young?  If I saw as much as kissed a man, they'd throw stones at you. Did you know that? The world hasn't changed that much since then. It's changed a lot. Every era has its own difficulties. Yeah, sure. We all have these rights now, but that hasn't changed everyone's mind. Still, we have to believe that what we're on is made up of my mind. I'm just letting you know. Feed the documents into the feather. Dad, I... I want you to be at the hearing. What? To watch you embarrass yourself in public? I want you to confess. What? My lawyer will formally notify you. He says this will increase our chances. I have nothing to say. You have to confess so I can... I have nothing to say. Dad, I... I didn't come here to find you to say.  For God's sake, I have done nothing wrong. Why did you think you had the right to decide how I would turn out? It was still up to chance. We used gene editing to increase the chances you would be born a homosexual, but all kinds of things affect genes. You may not have been... But I was. My whole life has been decided by the two of you. From the very beginning. Who gave you that right? She's young.  What does it mean to be gay? Are you sure that's pride and not arrogance? Xiong, your daddy and I cherished him. We loved our community. We adored this life. So why would we pass it up? So by being born, I was fated to become your political billboard. You don't really think that. You're just confused. No! I feel disgusted to be gay. That makes you ashamed of me, doesn't it? Xiong, it's best to be gay. What does that mean? It's my belief that the best thing in this world is to be gay. That's not an answer. You just repeated the same words. That's my answer. Our purpose is love. Thanks to us, human beings aren't mere animals that exist only to reproduce. If you really think that, why did you have me? We had to, so that our love would continue. And has it? Homosexuality. Homosexuality is genetic. Sex is genetic. You fail. It hurts. But any experiment is worth it. Xiong, you've been a do-it-all, so your daddy and I worked hard all these years to give you the best. We were so happy to start with you. And you went out with Chen Xianghua for quite a while. Didn't that go well? Yes! And you were the ones who introduced him to me. Chen Xianghua didn't leave because there was anything wrong with you. He simply wasn't good enough for you. You don't need to do this just to take revenge. Please, this is nothing to do with him. Then you don't need to take revenge on me. Ah, you flatter yourself. Then you're taking revenge on yourself. Why do I have to be doing this other revenge? I've watched you grow up. I know what's on your mind. Oh, that's right. The way my brain functions is all down to your genitity. No talking. No. To be in this hearing, talking. If you don't show up, you know that letter daddy left me when he died. I'll enter in this evidence. Will you let me drink my D&P's? You motherfuckin' can't keep deciding my life for me. Karen is still here. She's read daddy's letter. Decided what to do. Oh, we. So you're part of this foolishness. Professor, there's an academic dimension to this issue. You're tired-headed, but that's why your research amounts to nothing. This is very important to Xi Zhong. Don't bother. All he wants to hear is his own voice. That's enough for today. Karen, why don't you go? Professor, please listen to me. No, you don't. You can't speak here, Karen. Maybe you should just go. Karen smashes the teapot to the ground. What are you doing? Karen? It's 2049. Why do you still think women are only good for making your tea and buying your coffee? Professor, scientists can't play God with other people's lives. What a shame I don't believe in God. You'd rather believe in quantum mechanics. People have the right to decide their own future. That's an old-tune time, Karen.  I know the idea of free will can be at odds with the study of biology, but... You're too young. You don't understand what parents are willing to do for their children. But, Professor... Karen, please don't interrupt me. All right? Karen, you've always been a good girl, serious girl. But now you must realize that what your limits are. If your parents hadn't pushed you to study hard since you were a kid and done everything they could to get you into school, do you think you'd still be where you are now? If you had to get there under your own stink... Oh, my God! Sink? I'm speaking! If you don't know how painful of this hardwood would be, you wouldn't have changed your genes. Wouldn't you have changed your genes to make yourself a little more intelligent? What you've done, Professor? Every genetic scientist is going to come under attack. They may even shut down our research institute. So now we have to be pregnant. No! If you lose your job, should I take responsibility? No! No! Preventing Xu Xiang from having his own hearing is the best way to keep this research institute open. Isn't that true? Karen! Dad! You've gone too far! I'm sorry. I was just... Wait. I had to... I'm leaving. Wait, Karen. Long Yong, hands her a folder. I'm getting old and forgetful. I say something and it goes right out of my head. Take this. The Zoom, you're never coming back, so I wanted you to have it now. What is it? Your future research. I'm sorry, Professor, but I do still have some dignity. This is one of your... When you were still in college, I kept it all this time. And wondered when you'd take it up again. Unfortunately, you never noticed all the potential here. And there's some related material I've found in the past few years, all of you. They're not weaked before. I don't understand you. I'm doing what I believe is the right thing. Yes, sure. You're always right. I wanted to have a proper talk with you. Although I don't think we've ever had a real conversation. That's true. You all was closer to your daddy. You were never home.   I'll always need you. Dad, after my surgery, I'm gonna marry Karen. Karen is a good girl. Don't waste her time. I love her dad and she feels the same way. You could still marry her even without the surgery. Do you really think that would make us happy? Aren't you always saying that love can transcend all sorts of barriers? I just want a normal life. You are normal. Who do you think we're fooling? Being straight is normal.  Everyone is normal. No! Back when I was still in a petri dish, before you decided whether I loved men or women, that's when I was normal. Even if we hadn't done anything, you might still have ended up gay. Then I'd be normal, but you did do it and now I'll never be normal. Jeans are just jeans. They can't change what's in your heart. They can't change who you are. Aren't you a genetic scientist? What's the point of all your research then? Sexual orientation, criminal activity, free will. All these things are just a result of complex interactions between neurons and hormones. Psychology is fakesides. Religion is a lie. Whether God's existence is just something our genes tell our brain to believe. Right?  I love Karen. And she truly loves me. She's given me everything.  Do you know how painful that is? I don't want to keep lying to myself and I definitely don't want to deceive Karen. That day when I stood before you trembling and said I thought I might be gay too, the two of you hugged me tight and said I was so...  I felt so blessed to be part of this family, to be born in this era. But the letter daddy left me, shattered my world. I don't know how it's changed. Everything's changed.  You were sure of this love before I was? How do you think I ought to feel about that? I love men. All I think about is dick and it's my father who decided that. You destroyed me. What gave you the right to do this to me? Okay, it's the most beautiful thing that's ever happened to me, to be gay. With the best present we can give you. But I don't want it. Then it can't be helped. You are our son. So I had no choice. No one had the choice to be born. But even before I was born, I was destined to be your son. This life just isn't fair like that. Oh, that's it?  You still be our son. I've made up my mind. That's all you have to say. You've made up your mind. What else can I do? It's so hard to get an apology out of you. I'll say sorry because I've done nothing wrong. And I'm not going to hear it. Man, how could you? They could send me to prison and I still won't apologize. I have no regrets.   I should have come. If I'd apologized, that would mean that all this was wrong. And that our love was wrong. But that's not like that. You are our son. No matter what you become, you always be our son. Siong. Siong. Siong. What a woman who crashes to the floor. Dad. Dad, oh no. Siong lifts Lang Yong back onto his laundry. Rips open his shirt and reconnects the cables. The alarm sounds. The alarm starts. Siong, what happened? My head. Don't be scared. Don't be scared, okay? There was a little accident. The system will have notified an ambulance. No, no, not like this. Look at me. How did I end up like this? Siong. The bookcase. Please, the drawing. Siong pulls the bookcase. It crashes onto the ground. A window is revealed. The setting sun blazes through the trees, filling the entire living room with light. There's nothing here. Siong. I love you. The only one at the best for you. Lang Yong blocks out the cables. The alarm sounds immediately. With a great effort, he gets to his feet, stumbles to the window, and pulls it open. A strong wind rushes into the room, causing the papers on the ground to rise into the air. The alarm fades, replaced by the sound of children playing in the park outside. A red balloon drifts past the window. Siong. Yes. One, two. We're live. All right. Thank you for coming out, everybody. We have a quick panel discussion, and we'll open it up for two Q&A. First, let's just give another round to our fabulous players. I am your moderator for this evening. My name is Linnea, and I'm the literary manager for the National Queer Theater. And we at National Queer Theater are so happy and grateful to be partnering with the Segal Center this evening to put on this wonderful evening of theater at NQT. Our mission is to foster and support LGBTQ communities through social justice and the performing arts. In plain terms, that means we aim to produce new plays by queer playwrights and offer classes to LGBTQ youth and elders. In addition to our annual season, we also produce the Criminal Queerness Festival, which is a showcase of fully new, fully produced plays by playwrights from countries that criminalize homosexuality with World Pride this year, with plans underway for our 2020 festival. We are deeply committed to using art to uplift underrepresented and underheard voices, and we are very excited to showcase these exceptional playwrights this evening. So to start us off, why don't we go down the line and do a quick introduction, your name, your affiliation with the program, and for our playwrights, how you're feeling. After hearing your plays, maybe do a quick hand shake test. Hello, everybody. I'm Li Menghuan. In Taiwanese, means a big guy. Yeah, I'm the writer of the Red Bullen, and I like sci-fi play and gay play, too. So I mix the two together. I'm very nervous now. Thank you. Hello, my name is Jian Guo. I am a playwright in Taiwan, mostly working in traditional theater. I'm very happy and honored to introduce my play here. Hello, everyone. I'm Zhao Qiyun. I'm the playwright of The Loving Time, and I really like your laughing. I feel so happy. Hi, everyone. I'm Michael Li Wenloft. I directed the plays tonight, and I'm also the artistic director of Gung-ho Projects, which is one of the partnering organizations. Hi, I'm Jeremy Tiang. I translated today. Hi, I'm Pao. I'm the curator of this event. All right, fantastic. So my first question is actually for you, Pao. So you answered a version of this question yesterday, but humor me a little bit with the repetition. This is your second year with the new plays from Taiwan program. Last year you were a playwright. Can you tell me a little bit about the mission and ethos of this program and a little bit about your experiences here at Curating? Sure. I think Yu Qian has covered most of the things at the beginning, so I won't repeat. I'll just talk a little bit about my experience at Curating with these wonderful playwrights. I've been working in Taipei, in Taiwan theater scene for 15 years as a playwright, director, and performer. So I know them more or less. We all know each other as a small circle, so I embraced this opportunity to really having deeper conversation with them. I know how fragile, how vulnerable as a playwright is.  No matter what you see on stage, either represent what you're experiencing right now or what you're trying to escape from. So it's a very, very delicate thing. So for me it's very interesting during the discussion with them. I try to be very respectful, careful, yet honest to sharing my experience and be back to them. So I'm so happy and so proud and so honored to have this opportunity to work with them and with the whole team. And thank you for coming here today. Thank you. Wonderful. My next question is for you, Jeremy. So translation is so much more than just plugging a piece of text into Google Translate and pressing print. It's about translating gestures, cultural symbols, and words that may or may not exist in one language or the other. It's in itself a creative endeavor. What was the translation process like for you? What kind of challenges did you encounter? All this came together quite fast because gay marriage just passed in May and this whole program then happened quite quickly. We commissioned the playwrights. I had a very short time to do the translation, which was exhilarating. And then I was able to be in the rehearsal room making a lot of changes on the fly, seek directly what worked and what didn't and responding to that. So I was still doing a lot of rewrite up to today, which was great. But yeah, translating theatre, I think, has its own challenges because theatre is such a local form and most American audiences, I knew, wouldn't be familiar with what Taiwanese theatrical forms would look like, particularly as one of the plays had traditional Taiwanese opera in it. So there was a lot of cultural translation and trying to translate it in such a way that the plays would be legible to an American audience but not domesticate away what made them special so that they would still be recognizable to the Taiwanese people and you would also be in the audience. And it's a balancing act between the two. I think a lot of translation is finding that middle point and finding a text that would also be accessible to the American actors to perform. Absolutely.  Well, with the novel, you're more directly connected to the intact terms end user. So what I put on the page and get past the editor will go directly to readers, but with theatre translation, you're thinking about another artist or group of artists after you've done your job, the director, the actors, the designers, everyone involved in creating a production. Even for a reading like this, I was very conscious in my translation that what I did would then have to be passed on to someone else. So you have to think very collaboratively when you're translating theatre and you're sort of part of the bigger thing that really has to be the sense of mediating between the playwrights on one hand and between the production team on the other before you even start thinking about the audience. You're just, I guess, I'm reaching for a metaphor for some kind of medium. Hey, I'll let you think about that. I'll move along to Michael, our director for the evening. So what were some of the unique challenges, what are some of the unique challenges of working with new work and especially new work that's also being translated at the same time, and what sorts of elements do you find that you have to balance in a room where performance is meeting translation, which is meeting development? Yeah, it's been a wild four days. I've done a lot of work with writers in the room. This is the first time I think I've worked with the writer and the translator in the room, and it was thrilling actually. It was a lot smoother in some ways than I expected and I'm just thinking there's one moment in rehearsal the other day when Meng Huan was making changes as Jeremy was making changes on different things, and then we sort of had to figure out what was being worked, and I was sort of then interpreting that with the actors, and a lot of the cast is also bilingual, so we're sort of moving, there are a lot of both languages in the room at the same time. And I think what Jeremy said is absolutely right, hopefully it's, I try to have a room where it's an open circuit, so that it begins with the text, then goes through the translation, and then the conversation with the actors and sometimes it has to go all the way back around again, and it sort of, I think that it takes a lot of resources and a lot of work to get all of these people in the room together, but I think it's super important because it's only through that open conversation that we can really make the work happen. And I would love to hear a little bit about how this connects to your work with your, with Gung Ho Projects, that project. Yeah, so Gung Ho Projects is a small company that focuses on intercultural work. Most of the creation of new work and often bilingual in Mandarin and English. So this is sort of right up our alley. And it's really about bringing artists together in a room, often from different backgrounds and having an artistic conversation from the ground up. So it's been wonderful this week and I am also working on another piece that Gung Ho is producing in the spring where Jeremy's the writer, not the translator, so it's a different hat. So that will be in Brooklyn at Target Margin Theater in April. Fantastic. All right, playwrights, are you ready? So putting up a play is an incredibly collaborative process translating a play at the same time. It's like just adds another layer on top of that as we've been kind of talking about. Did you learn anything new about your play during the translation and rehearsal and production process? Because the play I wrote, it's very Taiwanese style. The way they talk is very Taiwanese. I mean in the Chinese version. So at the beginning I was a bit worried that after the translation do we still feel the local accent or like all those warm feeling? Because I think Taiwanese the way we express is very different as American. So I was a bit worried about that. But the first day when we like reading the play I was like surprised because I think it works quite well. All the jokes delivered and even more funny I think. Because this play based on all those people I worked for like 10 years so basically they're like my family. So I tailor made those characters for them and I'm really happy that even after the translation I still feel the bonding. I'm very familiar with these characters. So I think this kind of warm feeling maybe like worldwide is all the same. So I'm really really really happy that I bring my Taiwan folks to New York meet you guys and make you feel what I felt in Taiwan and hopefully all of you like catch it. Thank you. So basically for me this is a wonderful and very precious experience. I've never tried this kind of having my play performed in the foreign country through a foreign language I've never tried this kind of having my play performed in the foreign country through a foreign language I've never tried this kind of play through a foreign language and especially the play has two different multiple different forms Chinese and Taiwanese and I really appreciate it of how for giving this wonderful opportunity and also giving a lot of good advice I'm using this some kind of form that I have good at and of course through the translation that mixes modern versus modern and ancient languages and Chinese and Taiwanese both languages is hard but I find it of course through leading the play that mixture has been well performed presented If I have another chance to present my play I think I may simplify the form through maybe just a simple one kind of language to make it the best performance thank you I'm very happy to have this nice team everyone is very amazing the director, translator and the actors they work very hard to approach what I see there's an interesting I want to share and the first time we doing the rehearsal and the director want everybody in the room to introduce yourself and what's your name what's your favorite dessert and what's your pronoun he is him she her her for me it's very interesting because in Chinese she is her in the speaking form we only have her but in English it's different I never think think it before so I think the ta and shu and shu and he shows the difference between the Chinese culture and the West culture it is the very I I think it's amazing for me because I know the English word he and she but I never thought we are different it's interesting for me one last question for you what was the most exciting or challenging part of working in the US like in this production process and are there any processes or traditions that you're interested in trying to take me back home thank you why I really like his work with the group because they are like like everyone says they are amazing and especially more like a workshop like everyone worked together so we discussed like everything why I write that and what's the context and in Taiwan because normally the director there the head of the theater so we don't really listen that much and so it's very a good memory for me and also like in Taiwan for my like 10 or 12 years writing career like zero of the compliment from actor maybe my work is really shitty I don't know but like the first day of the rehearsal the actor came to me he says he really likes my play I was like what stop it I cannot take it for me it's my the treasure I found here I truly agree with you the same feeling one thing that's very special for me is the singing performing part of the Taiwanese opera when I was working I found some unexpected challenges I've been very curious about how I could perform or present this Taiwanese opera in my own dialect and then director has asked me to perform I thought maybe I could do it but then when I came and try to rehearse with them I find it quite challenging okay so okay so the director you formulate a pattern that in my play there's a play within the play as you can tell in Taiwan when we perform Taiwanese opera usually the singing part will be taken care of by the singers or musicians rather than the players I mean the actors so I tried to create some music to perform in this play of course I'm also very grateful to Wang Yang for this for me it's a challenge and it's a very enjoyable experience and memory but this is the first time for me to try and perform through singing my own part of the play so I would like to say thank you Wang Yang for your powerful performance and then this is really a challenge and I really enjoy for me the most challenge is speaking English even the script has been translated the word is translated perfectly the meaning of the word like what's love, what's normal the context in the different language still different but I think it's a good challenge because I have to more focus on what I thought so I can express the true meaning I want to tell and find out what's the true meaning of this play and the whole team is very inspired because I write this play I have no picture in my brand to look like but reading I can see the picture I know the character what's their voice so I think it's very inspired thank you alright now we're going to open it up to Q&A from the audience so if you have a question you can go ahead and raise your hand hi I can talk very loudly hi actually this is a comment for Jian Guo I think your play is so wonderfully done with the intricate layers of stuff and also the music is wonderful so please don't simplify it's so beautifully done and I really want to comment on your ability to create the Chinese opera it's so beautiful because the music connects us in the subconscious level so it became very touching thank you for live streaming everyone you'd have to scream into the internet hello hello hello viewers first of all I want to say thank you for your wonderful work and the actors are around somewhere but thank you all for really it was wonderful to hear these plays I'm wondering if we could actually talk a little bit about the subject matter I'm wondering if we could talk about marriage equality and where these three plays sit in quote unquote the history of Taiwanese theater something I read led me to think that these were perhaps some of the early queer plays in Taiwan but maybe that's just they've been written since May I just wonder if you could talk a little bit about where these three plays live contextually within contemporary theater in Taiwan okay I don't really know that much about the queer theater in Taiwan because it's not like super popular but you see lots of gay characters in all different kind of play and for me this play we write for this event so it's literally what I felt about after the gay marriage passed and specific for New York audience yeah I wanna make you guys laugh and make you guys feel why I feel yeah nothing like too fancy we were chatting a little bit earlier about how you classed your play actually as a comedy could you talk a little bit about what you were doing with the form I would class the first 95% as a comedy but you were kind of talking a little bit about what you were doing the reason I decided to write a comedy is because in these two years after we decided that Taiwan is going to have gay marriage until it passed in these two years all the religious group they keep buying advertise like everywhere spread this kind of hate speech so basically the whole LGBTQ community we feel like bullied again since we were like child we were bullied and right now every this kind of trauma recall again and everywhere and in these two years I feel like very suffering and but there's lots of support especially from my straight friends because it's not really their business they don't really need to spend for me or for my community but I really feel a lot support from them so after I know I'm going to do this project I think okay I'm going to write a comedy because it's a happy moment of course so this is how it is but also it's not only the joy there's a threaten behind that so that's why I think okay I'm going to write a comedy and lose everyone you know like that you relax you feel the same I felt and I want to let you guys know the difference between maybe American and Taiwanese is about this kind of joy this kind of happiness this kind of daily life it might be disappear like one second because another country or any I don't know so this is why I think okay it's a comedy but you need to have why concern in the end first question just now I think I'm more interested in this aspect of Taiwan actually in recent years there have been some traditional Taiwanese comedy such a theme I think it's great besides some advanced creative this because Taiwan's creative environment actually is quite broad okay let me just address your question in terms of the Taiwanese opera and Taiwanese theater in recent years there are also quite some plays that touch upon homosexuality and the related issues in addition to avant-garde theater there are also some efforts being made to discuss homosexuality in terms of the Taiwanese opera in Taiwanese folk theater the audience is basically an older audience so I would like to make this play more agreeable to them also this so-called short show in the Chinese world for the comrades to give me a point in my play then before I even go before I even go maybe they are still built under a traditional religion to open up so in this play in my play especially with female roles female playing the male roles I especially integrate what Chinese tradition has for gay and homosexuality this idea of cuts so in the traditional folk plays people might understand it a a form like a play in some point between these two characters personal characters so there are also theaters that dedicated themselves to more topics for each idea about homosexuality I like science fiction I think it's a good way to deal with the future problem in my work so my work is very different than other Taiwanese gay play and I'm gay I'm an insider I'm an insider of the gay community so I can talk a story about the dark side of gay and I think a lot about this play about invite us to create a new work because my husband and I also have a child we talk a lot about if we being parents we like and in these two years I suddenly found out I sorry I'm much much like my father I think my father is traditional one day I've been a marriage man I've been more traditional like my father I think even the law can change I change but people's thoughts change not so bad I want to write a play about the Taiwanese family traditional problems the father special strong this is what I think thank you sounds like the three of you wrote the three plays are written specifically for this I assume the three of you wrote independently but it's interesting that all three of you plays deals with your generational subject which I guess it's not as obvious when we talk about marriage equality so I don't know why do you do you put that in there is that something you always you're always interested or is that something about the marriage equality triggers this particular subject


Oregon might have just dropped the most fire throwbacks in college football. They're calling them the Mighty Duck Throwbacks and they're in honor of the 1984 uniforms that the team wore. That's by far the best part. The Mighty Duck on the shoulder. There's also a cool UO which you never really see from Oregon on the helmet. Now they haven't said exactly which game these will be worn so maybe it'll be a surprise but all I know is I'm excited to see these out on the field and I know they'll look awesome.


Welcome to Nasdaq Trey Talks. I'm Jill Milantrino, global market reporter at Nasdaq. Joining us on the desk at MarketSight, we have Michael Normile, U.S. economist at Nasdaq, as well as Max Cabasso, Maddie Ragnar, directors on Nasdaq's Market Intelligence desk. And we have Fausto Puglisi back with us, president at Cyber Trading U. We're gonna take a look at the performance of earning season's large versus small cap. We're also gonna talk a little bit of Bitcoin, which really has been the story of the day. It's great to have you guys back with us. Welcome to Trey Talks as always. Michael, let's kick it off with you. We're somewhat near the end of earning season. Give us a recap of what led the way, what isn't leading the way, and how this is kind of translating into what we're seeing with large and small. Yeah, it turned out better than expected. I think you can say for large caps. Back in mid-January, early on in earning season, we were looking at maybe negative 2% year-over-year earnings growth projected at the time. Here we are now. It's almost 4% positive growth year-over-year. And that's with about three-quarters of stocks beating their earnings estimates, which is pretty standard beat rate, more or less for large caps, S&P 500 firms. And so we've had about 95% of the S&P 500 having reported at this point. Excuse me. And it's been a lot of the same themes that we saw the last few quarters where consumer-led stocks have been really doing the bulk of the gains. If that's, we're talking communication services, information technology, consumer discretionary. Those have still been areas of strength. But if you turn to mid-cap stocks, we've seen that their earnings recession come to an end this quarter, looking at almost 2% year-over-year earnings growth this quarter, but a bit more mixed with about half the sectors, just over half the sectors seeing negative earnings growth. And then for small caps, their earnings recession continues. It's about six quarters now and projected to continue beyond that with much, much weaker. I think about negative 20% year-over-year earnings growth for Q4. What's going on with the small caps here? This is Elaine that you're in. Is it because we're still in a higher interest rate environment? Is it because the fundamentals just aren't good? Yeah, so small caps did see a nice four-day run, but unfortunately, they're the laggards again today. There's been kind of this back and forth with them. I think they're definitely just looking for direction where clarity on when rate cuts will happen, as well as inflation prints. Last month, we saw a little bit stickier of inflation. So just looking to see what's next. The Russell 2000 as well as the S&P 600 are still about flat year-to-date. They both were up a very impressive amount. S&P 600 was up about 14% last year. Russell was up about 15% last year. Since the end of 2021, they're both down about 8%. So a bit of a laggards. As Michael mentioned, seven out of the 11 sectors in the S&P 600 are seeing a negative earnings recession this quarter. So still have a lot of catching up to do. And what's interesting and fast though, we continue to hit all-time highs, right? But we haven't gotten those interest rate cuts. The expectations were for six at the end of last year. We might get three. So I think it's good that we're seeing positive performance in most sectors, most stocks. And we haven't gotten that interest rate cut. You know what, Jill? I have some hope that if they do lower them, these small caps took a really big hit with earnings. I mean, everybody looks at the Fabulous 7. They did unbelievable Amazon, Facebook, all of them, the video. But small caps took a very, very big hit. And, you know, they're in these variable rates that are really hurting them. So if they could really, if they could, if they can't get those interest rates, I think they're gonna come back. But there's gonna be some really good buying opportunities. You know, some people like, some of these other stocks are getting very expensive. And people are looking for deals with Allen. So there's gonna be some good opportunities. And some of them actually do make some comebacks too. Certainly some of the, we've seen what's happened in the healthcare biotech space over the past week as well. I mean, that's certainly, you know, in addition to the news that's out there, there certainly is an evaluation story behind it. But again, when it comes to small caps, even if rates are cut, you still need to have good underlying fundamentals. And I think some small cap companies do struggle with that. I mean, Costa Capital has been high for the past two to three years. And then, you know, balance sheets do matter in this environment. Investors certainly are more discerning. They are, but when it comes to, if they survive this long, you know, and you know, to still keep their earnings. And some of them, what they're also noticing a lot too, some of them doing a lot of reverse stock splits. So trying to keep their values up higher. So that's one thing that's got to be a little concerned about that if they can, because some of them made so many, have so many outstanding shares out there that if they could just limit it, limit that and keep their value up higher, I think they'll, I think they'll survive. They could do them well. Michael, it's interesting how sometimes financial engineering with whether it's stock splits or buying back stock really can impact investor sentiment and the valuation of some of these companies. Yeah, and I think to your point, you know, it can be helpful to get ahead of that before you get your stock price too low that doing a kind of a preemptive reverse split can be helpful in that sense before it gets kind of to a territory where it's a little bit more concerning, right? Right. It gets too low. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I know I was talking about the earnings recession earlier in small cap stocks, but if analysts are to be believed, there is projections for earnings to pick up in the second half of this year. So that could be, you know, a big benefit for those small and mid caps later on. And on top of that, I saw a few headlines, at least in this small healthcare space, private placements are up. So in the shorter term, companies are looking to raise capital shorter term with the hope that cuts will come in the later half of the year. Yeah. As negative as it's been, I also think part of it is healthy to kind of get this wash out. We talked about in 21, 22, we had, you know, a thousand IPOs in that two year period where it was double, triple, you know, in 21, I think we're at 350, which kind of double our average 20 or 20 was double. 21, we had 750. There was a ton of new companies coming out of there. People that didn't necessarily have great business models. There's out there, but because there's no cost of capital, you could just raise it basically whatever you needed, whatever you wanted. He had your run rate for a few years. Now it's okay, do you really have a business? Is this sustainable? And some of those are going to get washed out. You know, some of that probably shouldn't be public, but it's starting to kind of clean up a bit. Again, it's, I've been looking at kind of the Russell trade for a while now.  All right, the momentum hasn't been there. They've really unperformed. So I think it's still gonna take something bigger to get more of those tailwinds behind them. And again, rate cuts, we've been talking about it for a couple of months here. We didn't think six was on the table. You know, the Fed was saying four, potentially four, Mark was saying six, seven. We were kind of saying, I don't believe it. I think Mark is gonna come back. And I think once that clarity is out there, now it's 50-50 in June, but again, it's still 50-50 when, you know, cuts are gonna start to happen. Once that gets out of the way, I think the fundamental story potentially gets a bit clearer for companies, but there still is that uncertainty. And then we have the, you know, political environment coming up in November. So there's still gonna be some headwinds there. So I think once that clears out, you know, you might have a bit more of a tailwind, which is interesting too because of course, our fiscal policy situation is messy, going into an election year as well. And then, you know, we're also talking about a government shutdown again. Right?  It's always gonna be a story. It's not like this is, you know, specific to 2024, it's an anomaly. There's always gonna be something out there. I would say that the fact that earnings season was decent and companies delivered was a good thing because we certainly have six rate cuts aggressively priced in. And if earnings weren't as good as they were, that could have been really ugly. But let's get into some charts here, Max. Let's pull up Bitcoin. This was super interesting. As I came into studio at 1245, it's over 64,000. Got done with my last, it's at 59,000. I think we're 60-ish somewhere now. Yeah, 61 now essentially we're back. Bitcoin's back. This is what we all live for, Bitcoin. You know, obviously ETFs have seen massive inflows. Some of them are hitting, again, new records today. Looking to overtake some of the gold ETFs in terms of assets, it's coming quickly. You know, again, feels like we're getting overbought. We've had these crazy moves higher. But when you kind of look back historically, we're really not even close to kind of what the potential is if we're going back and we see a similar move. You look at 2020, we were trading, basically 2018, 19, 20, around 10,000 sat there and then 6X in short order. We kind of came back down to 20,000. Again, 6X, 5X, weren't like a 3X from the lows here. So, and now, again, we have additional tailwits behind it. Companies now can start using Bitcoin on their balance sheets as a reserve currency. And I've spoken to a company, a few in the space that are doing that, that will benefit from it. So, we'll see if we get a tailwind from that as well. So, it's back. Volatility is back in it. It is back in it. What about volatility in the market overall? What are you seeing in the VIX? It still seems to be... Muted. Muted, for sure. This is going back to 2019, this chart, which was a lows, just under 12. We saw that small spike, inflation and Fed basically coming out. Okay, we're not going to be cutting rates. We're not going to be doing 6, like everybody thought. We saw that, I don't even know if you can call it a spike because we still didn't even break 20. But now, we're back at 1375. Put call skew and options. Protection is still relatively cheap. No one's really putting it on. There seem to be a lot of questions, but again, a lot of this gets tied into the large caps, which have been really outperforming. So, there's not as much fear there. There's not as many question marks with large caps. Even the single names, the Mag7, they performed. Where that was kind of the worry, I thought you'd potentially see a spike in the VIX if those earnings weren't good and those mega caps that really have outperformed. They started to turn. You start to see some question marks, but they all performed. They hit it out of the park. So, now it's kind of backed up. We're sitting here waiting. Usually, something comes up. VIX goes low, low, low. Everybody starts selling ball, selling ball, selling ball. And then some shock comes in and it's like, oh, wait a second. We shouldn't have been selling ball this whole time, but right now it's muted. It's been a tight range. We're sitting here basically below 15 for the last few months. We had a couple of spikes, but otherwise it's been really muted. Well, you know how it is with the VIX. The lower the VIX, the move to the upside can certainly feel more shocking than the other way around. And finally, quick read on the SPX. Starting to consolidate a little bit. We had that run, obviously the end of last year. Large caps, S&P 500 had that run. They really kept going. We got to new all-time highs and now we're starting to consolidate it again. Some of the froth potentially coming out. Some people are starting to take profits. Yeah, we're kind of sitting tight here. And one of the things that, valuation metrics here, we're getting a bit more expensive. We were talking about it's getting more expensive. It's pricier to buy some of these names, but again, they're performing. You can see we're kind of back at 21 levels here with PE. Even price of sales, price of book. We're at elevated levels. But again, they're performing. So people are willing to pay up for those names that consistently continue to perform and perform, perform. They have these drivers behind them. Obviously AI is getting as big hype cycle again and what has that's coming to fruition. So again, it's getting more expensive but investors seem to be okay with it. So again, a little consolidation here. We'll see what happens now. It's earnings are out of the way. Probably go back to kind of more macro focused information but doesn't seem like there's a ton of headwinds for them. All right, my turn for the charts. But to your point exactly, we are gonna get into this earnings vacuum where it's gonna be hyper focused again on what's happening with the Fed, what's happening with interest rates. But let's talk about how we're trading these things, Val. So Nvidia, I mean, how much higher can it go? So when you're thinking about what levels you wanna get in or out, let's take a look at some of the charts here. I mean- Yeah, I mean like in getting back, if I may just forgot about your Bitcoin, we're talking about what we're gonna be mentioning about the book viewers that I've noticed also on seeing a lot of people are shorting Bitcoin now. And that's just causing a big, big flux in it. And so if you don't see that, that's why you got this big, big pop. So by the stock hovering there for a while, that's why we're seeing a big pop that I've noticed. But getting back to, yeah, Nvidia, last time we were here, we saw some huge iceberg orders on Nvidia, hovering around 500 last time we were here. I mean, obviously be one of the part of the Fabio 7, but was nice about Nvidia. It finally broke through that major, major resistance levels, but it wasn't, people look at it as a resistance level, it's more of seeing big block orders out there. And I think last time we were here, we had like over two, almost a quarter million shares out there on that. But now what happened, once it broke through that major resistance, we had a big pop of almost $300 on that stock. I mean, the stock's up almost about 600% since the beginning of the year. It's been, I mean, that's really been the number one stock for AI stocks. It's just been doing great. Now the question people asking is like, okay, is it over? Is there's a party done? I mean, is it gonna continue to go higher? Well, like anything else on the book viewer, I mean, it's nice about it is that you get to see those orders, not only seeing those orders at 800, but look at all the different orders, not just as price. You got 1,500 people, 1,500 orders out there at like 800, another 450 orders at 795. I think the video is down to like, was hovering, it did come back down about 175. It's not a huge drop from where it is, but what's nice about it is that is it starting to go down? Well, it's starting to channel a little bit here. If it continues to channel, and I keep seeing refreshing going on on the book viewer, this could be the top for a little while, but we'll need to see how things go out in the next couple of days if it continues. Yeah, and we can see that right there, right? On the iceberg order. Yeah, huge iceberg order, just hovering there around 800, and now you got a new iceberg order that's been holding there. But what I like about this 175 price is that there's an order out there on book viewer. It keeps refreshing his order, it keeps updating it. More orders keep going out there. You see the time in sales, you see that person getting executed, and it's holding there pretty strong. So if we hold it here for the next day or so, depending on if you're a day trader or more of a swing trader, 800's the cap, but the 175 is a really, really big support. Let's talk about Rivian here, right? Looking for this balance. Well, Rivian got destroyed because of the earnings. I mean, that stock literally came down almost like from 18 and 19 down to like $10. What was beautiful about this example here is that you had literally a 500,000 share buyer at $10. He was there for not one day, but several days. I would say, well, probably like three, four days. And what's nice about, what you could see is that they pulled their order the night before, then they came back when the market opened up at 9.30 and then they put it back there again. So they would not drop, they would not let go at $10. Now, obviously 10 being a mental number for people, but for us as traders, there was over half a million shares. Stock hit there within the same day, stock rate about 10% went shot up all the way up to about 11. And then like everyone always asks is, okay, where do I get out? And the big thing is you had some big sellers starting to show up there, 150,000 share orders at 11, and that's where you started to get the stock back off a little bit. Yeah, and you could see that in the chart there for sure. All right, last one, Amazon. Of course, everyone wants to know how to trade this one. I love Amazon. I haven't had Amazon for a long time, but, and it was great to hear when it broke earnings. But now the next thing is, how much higher is it gonna go? So Amazon's obviously breaking all-time highs. But as a trader, you're always thinking about taking profits. Remember, you did not make a single penny until you sell it. So Amazon all of a sudden you're coming up to a big order out there, about 200,000 shares hovering there with 63 orders at 175. Now, once again, a mental number, 175 is a number, never got to 175. One little trick that we always learn as traders, always sell right below that whole number. Don't ever sell a solid number like that. And by seeing that on the bookbure, you'll notice it hit it and then obviously over the course of the day, 175 right down 169. All right, I appreciate the insight as always. Now we know how to read charts, now we know how to trade these stocks. Thanks for joining us on Trade Talks and thanks for joining me from MarketSight. I'm Jill Melandrino, Global Market to Porter at Natstack.