Hi Roger, thank you so much for speaking with me earlier about your interest in test driving. I want to hit and schedule your appointment for tomorrow at one o'clock. Please let me know if you need anything in the meantime. Feel free to give me a call. My number is<PHONE_NUMBER> or you can also email me back. Thank you so much. Bye.


All right, welcome everybody. We have a panel session, open stack Federation panel, past, present, and future, just a brief introduction. You know, many of us have been working in Keystone for many a year. And I remember, you know, where Keystone started in the early days, it had some basic capabilities. It did not have a lot of security. It didn't have the notion of being able to have secure connections from Keystone to LDAP or Active Directory. And so a lot of us, a lot of folks you see here jumped in, and not only did we actually add secure connections, but then we started adding the ability to integrate into LDAPs and Active Directories, and then integrate into multiple LDAPs and Active Directories. And of course, that was never enough, right? And then people came to us with terms like Federation and SAML and OpenID Connect. And so what you've seen is the teams put a lot of work into adding Federation support to Keystone. And this is a great panel session to talk about, you know, where we were, where we're going, what we're going to do. So we have a lot of wonderful speakers here, and I'm going to let them introduce themselves. We're going to first start with Joe Savick. Hi. We're sitting out of order. Oh, that's not good. Okay. My name is Joe Savick. I'm a Senior Manager of Product Over at Rackspace, and I've been working on brilliant people working on the Keystone project, and now the Barbican project, and excited to move the ball on Federation even further down the road. All right. Next one is Steve Martinelli. Hi. I'm Steve Martinelli. I'm going to be the Keystone PTL for the Mitaka release. I've been working on Keystone for a while, and working a lot on the Federation bits, so that's it. Excellent. We're going to go next to Marek. Yeah. Hey, I'm Marek Deniz. I work at CERN Switzerland. I'm a Keystone core as well, and I focus mainly on the identity of Federation in OpenStack. Now we're going to move on to Doug Menzeball. Yeah. So I'm Doug Menzeball. I'm the current Barbican PTL for Mitaka, and I've been PTL for Barbican for the last two cycles as well. Okay.  Yes. Klaus Werenga, Identity Architect for Cisco Cloud Service. I'll take a little bit longer, because I'm kind of the new kid on the block. I guess that's why I'm on the side of the podium, that they can shove me off. Now I'm relatively new to OpenStack. I have a long history in identity and federated identity. Those of you who are from academia may know a service that I built almost 15 years ago at your home for Wi-Fi roaming. I've been involved in the start of educating the higher ed federation of federations. And when I moved to Cisco, I kept working on mobility and federations. And for a year now I'm at Cisco Cloud Services and basically trying to put everything I learned about federations and federated identity into what we do with OpenStack. Excellent. Thank you Klaus. So we're going to start with Federation Past. And the first question goes to Merrick. Who is this CERN group and why do they do identity federation? Yeah, sure. So who is this CERN? CERN is the high energy physics laboratory based in Europe, in Switzerland. We're basically trying to solve the mystery of the universe, try to understand how the universe was created and why do we have mass? Well, yeah, why do I have some weight? And for that we do some kind of experiments. We have the 27 kilometers long ring under the ground where we accelerate the particles to the speed of light and we collide them and in the controlled environment we see how they behave and what new can we see. And for this, this is like the one of our detectors. It's like 30 meters in diameter. So it's pretty huge. So for this, our detectors produce a lot of data. And when I say lots, the bandwidth is roughly one petabyte of data per second. So it's really a lot. Okay, most of the data is actually filtered out by our sophisticated electronics but basically what's interesting and what's stored needs to be processed, analyzed and then some people just get the Nobel Prize. So we end up with 30 petabytes of valuable data per year that needs to be analyzed. Of course we cannot afford building all the data centers to all the work by ourselves. Plus this is the scientific collaboration so we are open to the collaboration. And right now we rely on the WRCG, so World Allege Computing Grid but we are also looking into cloud computing solutions. We are looking for the ways for integrating with various private and public cloud providers and clearly the Federation is the best way to do this because we can focus on doing what we mean to do so finding the physics equations and the results instead of just managing the accounts and probably just fixing the errors when somebody is not deleted from the project or is not added to the project. So clearly we need the Federation for just moving the ball. Excellent. Thank you. So now I'll move on to some other folks. We'll start with Steve. Steve, how do you use Federation today at your respective company, IBM? Are you sure you don't know? I don't pay attention to a lot of things. Well, so we're looking into it right now. So one of the main things, well, we have products that act as identity providers that you can use so we have things like Tivoli Federated Identity Manager and Webster Liberty which act as identity providers which you can then connect to Keystone and OpenStack. Additionally, we also have some OpenStack offerings because it's essentially vanilla OpenStack, the vanilla Federation OpenStack code and as a result we get the Federation bits there and one of the things that we're looking into now is connecting our BlueMix offering which is based on Cloud Foundry and tying it into OpenStack, into our OpenStack offerings so things like BlueBox and our BlueBox on SoftLayer. That's something that we're going to look into. Excellent. Thank you. Joe, how do you use Federation at your respective company, Rackspace? Sure. We typically take a look at three different use cases and part of it is the same use case that you mentioned, Steve, of BlueMix and tying it in with OpenStack. Over at Rackspace we have our dedicated world. We use through a certain control panel that we have, a website, and then we have our cloud world through a separate one. We use federated identity in between these two different hosted control panels that we fully trust over at Rackspace to kind of tie them together and allow our users to use the same provisioned identity across both of them. We use SAML in that case. In other use cases, Rackspace is a managed service provider so Rackers have access whenever supporting customers to be able to go from a support tool over to a control panel and be able to help answer customers. There's SAML integration there from a Rackspace employee credential that's provisioned and wanting to federate over to a different system. In the third use case, there are users using things like Active Directory Federation Services to with them wanting to come into our different control panels that we have. Excellent. Thank you. Klaus, same question. How do we use Federation at Cisco? And I believe you have a turn. I do. Yes. I believe we do things a little bit different from what I've heard at the previous conference. There was a lot of talk about Federation. There is the whole Keystone to Keystone Federation stuff going on. And I thought it was best to show in a slide what we're doing. Basically, what we try to do is to be an intermediary between the companies that are our customers and the services that we or third parties are offering. And that way, put it in identity terms, we act as an IDP towards the relying parties, the service providers, and we act as an SP to the customer IDPs. So the nice thing about that is that they have to manage only one trust relation and more importantly, we only have to manage one trust relation per customer. And the same towards the relying parties. I keep saying relying party because service providers, at least inside Cisco, are much overloaded term, even though it's the Semmel terminology. So instead of essentially an N squared trust establishment problem, we bring it down to an order of magnitude of N problem and associated with that, we can pairwise change whatever Federation protocol we talk either to the relying parties or to the identity providers. So if the customer wants to talk Semmel 1.1 or Semmel 2 or OpenID Connect or OAuth 2, we don't care. We can do that. Southbound, we can still at the moment talk Semmel but in the future I expect actually that we will do more OpenID Connect because it's a little bit more API friendly. And let's see, so really it is about scaling to large numbers. I think that's the big problem that we're trying to solve here. And the kind of a philosophical design criteria I liked and that's perhaps because I come from a little bit different background, I like to keep as much as possible out of OpenStack. I want to treat OpenStack like just any other relying party and have it do the minimal set of capabilities that is needed to function correctly, but everything else we've spent 20 years and if you take Kerberos or elsewhere as an example of albeit crippled Federation protocol even longer than that, we've been working on making identity and federated identity work. We wanted to work the same also to other types of relying parties like WebEx, Spark, whatever web-based service you have. So if we were to put it all that functionality into Keystone, we could not leverage it for order services so as much as possible out of OpenStack. And with that I'm still on the stage so that's nice. With that I'll end it back. We're a very inclusive group, we are OpenStack. Moving on to the next question, we'll start with Steve. Steve, what's your favorite Federation or identity protocol and why? I like OpenID Connect. SAML is XML-based which makes it more difficult with Python. OpenID Connect is JSON-friendly, so is Python. It works great and it's really easy to get a identity provider because Google talks OpenID Connect and I already have a credential there so it makes it easy to test out. Excellent. Joe, same question. You know, mind changes, it depends on the target market so when we're looking at reaching out to enterprises at SAML, they typically run identity providers that could speak SAML over OpenID Connect. If we're looking at the developer market, maybe OpenID Connect might be better. Nobody cares, maybe skim. Skim is provision, it's not Federation at all. It's just being able to speak and replicate identities all around. You know, I haven't heard the term skim for like a year and a half at this conference. But there was, I think it was Portland, I heard it a lot. And then since then just you, so I want to hear more skim. I had it on my slide but I removed it, I thought let's not bring that up.  I'll take this one off. Yeah, it's back on stage. Klaus, same question. Yeah, I have to say my favorite Federation protocol is Radius. I know it's not used inside OpenStack, in AppVap usually. I should have said it in my introduction. I'm also the AppVap chair in the ITF. But actually, AppVap doesn't use it in a way I like it. What I like about Radius is that it's simple. It has one purpose and one purpose only and it does that well. I think all of the other protocols are at a severe risk of being overloaded. And, well, Semmel is a good example of that. But that's Semmel 2 is 10 years old. I'm sure OpenID Connect will go the same way. Yeah. Klaus, you just gave me a horrible flashback. I was sent to Amsterdam for a customer critsit. We were doing wireless devices and Radius was involved and it wasn't working. So I'm having cold sweats that you even brought that up. Merrick. I think I will go my supportive vote for Semmel, even though it's XML. But it's at least 10 years old and so this means if it's still on the market, it means this is trusted and tested. Yeah, Semmel. Okay. Doug, you've been awful shy and quiet. You had to chime in. What is your favorite protocol? You can't hide anymore. So as far as identity protocols here, I would have to go with whatever the JSON one was. That's super. So my identity, OpenID Connect, that's the one. Somebody brought them. Not my strong suit. That's right. When we're ready to talk key management. We're getting there, sir. Right. Excellent. I'm glad we put you on the spot there. Nice hazing for the new guy, right, Joe? That's a good answer. Good answer. Okay. So let's talk a little about Federation of Future. We'll go with Joe first. Joe is Federation limited to only identities for OpenStack. Yes. Are there other federatable things? Yeah. So there's a couple of use cases out there that could invoke Federation. One of them that we're looking at, and I talked about earlier today over at the design area, was bring your own key use cases. It's a use case where, actually, you were supposed to talk about this, aren't you? He will. It's next question for him. Do you want to go into the next question? Sure. Sure. Then we'll come back to Steve. Since you got kind of, Doug, how do you see Federation and bring your own key working? What are the use cases? I think Federation is interesting, and we're still building Barbican Federation as a way to provide a bring your own key workflow to OpenStack. And so use cases for that would be customers that are sort of security conscious. They don't particularly want to trust a Barbican that is running a public cloud with all their secrets. And bring your own key would provide a way for them to keep ownership of any secret material and only federate that out to the public cloud when needed. Excellent. Also, oh, sorry. Keep going, keep going. One more. Different use case, some customers may be under some kind of compliance regime whereby they cannot actually save those secret things to a public cloud and they have to sort of keep ownership of those things in their premise. You see bring your own key slash Federation as a way to achieve that. Outstanding. And we'll come back to Steve. Same question we gave Joe. Is Federation limited only to identities for OpenStack? Are there other federatable things? Yeah, so yesterday during the cross-project session we had a talk about Federation and federating it with other things in OpenStack. And one of the cases that the guys from the Massachusetts OpenCloud group were talking about and they prototyped it is, you know, you have your Nova instances in one location and then you have your Cinder volumes in another location and you want to attach volumes to instances that are not in your cloud that are on another cloud. So that's one instance. And really there's quite a few use cases and in the same kind of flow there's storing objects but you want to assign the objects and you want to get the key from Barbican. So another one there, another one is Nova and Glance.  Okay. Yeah. All right, thank you. All right, this question is going to go in first to Doug and then Joe. What are the challenges organizations will face in a bring your own key model? And then I'm going to also add to this an imprompt. You know, also kind of talk about how this works, how you can sort of bring your own key and meet compliance. I think that might be something to expand upon a little bit as well. Okay. So how can he, sorry, I got confused with the second part of the question. We'll take this too. First, what are the challenges? Challenges. Yes, sorry. So as soon as some organization decides they want to bring their own key, then the responsibility of managing those keys falls on them. Right. And so you're going to have to think about things about, you know, the key storage, key management as far as exploration, rotation, sort of all those things. I think Barbican can help with that. Being able to deploy a Barbican in your own prem would help you sort of with managing that key life cycle or secret life cycle. And then the second part of the question was. Well, just want to help people understand how that bring your own key magic works, right? I brought my own key, but my key is still safe and compliant. So we're still sort of in the design phase of this. We had a design session earlier today and then one of actually two of them, there's a lot of discussion, a lot of different points of view on how this should work. Sort of at a high level what we're thinking is, you know, you have your private Barbican hosting your own keys that you own. And then you send a request to say Nova to boot from an encrypted sender volume. And you tell it, hey, you know, use this key that's on my prem. You give it a reference to a key that is held in the private Barbican. No, then we'll talk to sender and say, hey, I need this volume. And then I will talk to a public Barbican saying, hey, I need this key that's federated somewhere. And then the two Barbicans will sort of talk to each other. And then the public Barbican would get that key handed over to sender magic would happen. Sort of the point here is that the key, even though a story in your private Barbican, it does exist in the cloud for some time, but it's not stored there. So this would help with sort of a tax ed rest, I suppose, where you don't, your key is in the cloud only when it's being used, but then when it's not being used, it's only inside your prem. Gotcha. Joe, same question. Yeah, absolutely. Another use case that customers may find when doing the bring your own key is what they experienced today with AWS and Azure. Azure has a bring your own key model, but there are products that they have that don't support this kind of key federation or keys that you brought, one being exchange online isn't supported. In the AWS world, I think they launched on S3, but not EC2 yet for the same reason. So it's, hey, with my provision keys, I could do everything that your service offers, but when I bring my own key, there are certain things I can't do. And this is another use case where Barbican can actually help, because when the public cloud or a service provider runs Barbican, it can act as the broker in between the different products that the service provider hosts. And so it's a, for Nova, it's no difference in between a provision key and a brought your own key. Same thing for Cinder, same thing for Keystone even, you know. It makes it a whole lot easier for customers to be able to know what they're getting into and being able to leverage a whole portfolio of a service provider. Okay.  What are we doing here? Have you thought about audit support, federation-based audit support show? Yeah, that's the other thing is that if I'm dealing with so many different service providers, multiple different clouds, either floating up different flavors of OpenStack too. I want to be able to know that the events that are being produced in these different OpenStack clouds are really coming from the service provider, and that they're really intended for me and I can actually decrypt them using my own key. So this is another use case where if we get the foundation of key federation in place, we can start using the pieces that are there with CADF and PyCADF with the nozzle libraries to be able to sign the CADF events with a key that only the customer has. They could decrypt those events, know that there wasn't a man in the middle attack, and that trust relationship still exists in between the customer and the service provider. So now they know, hey, I'm getting all these different audit events and these were truly intended for me and this is truly intended for the resources on my tenants. Yeah, it's an outstanding use case and we'll definitely get you connected with our CADF gurus, Matt Rukowski, and we'll have those discussions. Excellent. Okay, so we're going to move on to sort of setup and problems with federation. Could there be problems with federation? Could there be setup problems with federation? So we'll start with Klaus. Klaus is Identity Federation and Keystone Ready for Enterprise adoption. Well... It's only close to the stage. No, it's perfect. No, the thing is, I think it is good enough and that is in this world already very important. There are some issues, but like I explained, by taking away most of the processing out of OpenStack, we can pretty much do everything we want. There are some nasty things that we'll get to later if you ask about things that need to be solved, but generally speaking, it's okay. I am a bit concerned about the fact, but I guess that's a general problem for OpenStack, that there is so little code base, there is one implementation and that's it, and it gets reviewed, but I guess my ITF background likes multiple implementations for everything and scrutinizing and comparing and stuff like that. That bothers me a little bit about something that is so tightly integrated with security. That's something to think about. Typically, how OpenStack solves that is with multiple plug-in points, extension points, plug-in models, driver models. So, some things to discuss with the Keystone team. Well, certainly. Very, very good data points. We're going to ask the same question, I believe, to Steve. So, I would really, really, really like it if more people would kick the tires on it and on the current federation implementation and just to really stress it and see how it works. I know a lot of guys at Red Hat have done that. We've done it at IBM. A lot of the Rackers have done it. The feedback's been, oh, it's good enough. And I, myself, can find some issues with it, I think. I think some things can be improved. Command line interactions can be better. We can start caching things to make it faster. Caching assertions, caching tokens. We could also improve the mapping engine a little bit more. But, I mean, otherwise, I think it's a pretty good, and I'm totally not biased here. I think it's good enough for now. And I just want a whole lot of feedback from it. And, yeah, I just want folks to really kick the tires on it. Okay. Thank you, Steve. Joe, same question. Yeah, I think there's some, it's good enough, but there's a cost that implementers have to be able to pay. And some of the costs that we're looking at is the manageability of it. There's use cases where a customer wants to be able to swap out the key that they're using for the SAML signature. And the key is handled by the Apache Mountshib and actually the decryption of it. And so that requires an operator to go in. And on a large public cloud, when you're having hundreds of thousands of customers, that gets to be kind of a pain when a customer wants to be able to swap out a key. There's other concerns, though, as well, that are kind of more specific with Keystone overall, such as the mapping isn't nearly as granular as I want it to be for the authorization. This is the same true for provisioned users as well. I can't go down and I can't do fine-grained access control. I can't give cost access only to the dev environment because I don't trust them with my product environment. Things like that, yeah. So I think there's more robust authorization rules that Keystone needs to put in place. That sounds very important. Do you hear that, Henry? All right, good to know, good to know. Excellent. So we're going to go on to our next question here. We'll start with Joe, since he sort of started touching upon this. Joe, how can we enable more authorization grants through assertions? Yeah. Geez, I wish I didn't post that cedar question on there. This one's tough because we've talked about this quite a while in Keystone about dynamic policy and getting into dynamic policy for the policy JSON file and making that available in essential stores that way customers can see the capabilities that they actually have and they're granted through their token. But then there's a deeper level too that goes through for fine-grained access control and really it's baby step to baby step and these are big baby steps that we have to take. That's the problem. And so I think really we have two big problems to solve for within Keystone. That's policy management, policy is being able to understand the capabilities available and then fine-grained access control, to limit those capabilities to specific resources like servers or load balancers and so I think we need some help on this. Okay. Steve, same question. Yes. Joe effectively answered that one. We have some work to do on Keystone itself. I mean this is outside of the Federation scope to really be better at granting control to certain resources and endpoints, more fine-grained access control. This is outside of the scope of Federation, just Keystone proper. Well, I think that we would have floated up through the mapping element for it to be available to federated users. So it's really just the getting the framework in place for that authorization. You need the framework on both sides. You need the framework on the mapping side and your framework on the support and Keystone for the more fine-grained operations. Klaus, same question. Did I sign up for this one too? You're allowed to pass one. You don't like those game shows? Only as the new guy. Just one though. Actually, it sounds a little bit repetitive but also there, we are actually now kind of forced to do part of the authorization outside of OpenStack to circumvent things like the God token and stuff like that that we really don't want to give to our customers. So in general, I would like to see more of the authorization heavy lifting happening outside OpenStack and for the XML lovers that could be something like EXECML but something else might also be possible. So I don't care so much about it. What is being used? I have to admit I didn't think much about it yet because we have lots of other problems to solve but there is an element of reinventing the wheel inside OpenStack and that is another thing that concerns me a bit. Okay. And the next question is for Klaus. I hope he does realize his names on it. Do we do federation inside OpenStack? Keystone to Keystone or external? Yeah, so I actually had a bit of a discussion with Marek about that yesterday evening. I guess it depends is the question and not even so much for technical reasons than for organizational reasons. I see a case for Keystone to Keystone Federation, for instance, things like breaking out from a private cloud to the public cloud and it kind of makes sense to just use Keystone Federation to the public Keystone instance. But in general, again, I prefer to do this outside just like if you go do a single sign-on from one website to another website, you don't have those websites federated with each other. You have an IDP that supports a single sign-on. But there may be organizational reasons why you want to do Keystone to Keystone. For instance, Marek brought up the issue that sometimes as an organizational unit you don't have control over what happens at the central IT and you can perhaps not control the Federation at that level and then Keystone to Keystone might be a good solution. My take is if you hold all the elements in the ecosystem, so IDP, the relying parties, et cetera, I see little reason to do it inside OpenStack, to be honest. Okay. All right, we're now on to our challenge questions and I'm going to throw this out to whoever wants to try and attempt to answer it. First challenge question is, where do you see other OpenStack projects needing enhancements to better enable Federation slash hybrid cloud support? I was thinking about Joe when I asked this. And anyone else who wants to answer? So for Identity Federation, there's always a horizon answer and make it easier, more manageable to be able to do IDPs. But then a lot of stuff is also on Keystone as far as being able to allow easier rotation of keys, being able to help manage my identity provider within Keystone too. But then there's other objects. So Key Federation, we talked about that within Barbican. There's some work with Oslo and Catif as well on adoption. These are all integration services and they require an adoption effort after we build it out. And so most of the brunt work is trying to get other services to use it and expose it. Okay. Did anyone else want to try and answer that? We're good. Okay. We're going to go to our lightning round. I'm about to wrap up here.  What's the next big thing you would like to see happen in the OpenStack Federation space? We'll start with Steve. Federating other services.  Interacting between Barbican and Swift, Nova and Cinder, Nova, Glance. Those are things. Am I, did I get it under a minute? Fabulous. Okay. Cool. Merrick, your turn. Same thing, federating services or just going into another layer of abstraction so you can spread your clouds across multiple providers. And you can, I mean, from the user perspective, you can see this as a one cloud. So those two things. Doug? Obviously, I want to see some Barbican federation, especially trying to make this sort of transparent to the things that are using the federated thing, right? So in the bubble cloud, have Nova never know that it's using a federated key and stuff like that. Cool. Joe? Yeah, I like his answer. I also, on top of that, I want to see Keystone use Barbican for the key management stuff. And I implement key rotation in one place and make that available to customers. Excellent. Klaus? Yeah, I kind of mentioned this before, but I'd like to see where we managed to get the identity management part out of OpenStack. I would like to see the same happening for authorizations. Excellent. Well, panel members, that was our last question.  I'd like to thank all of you for your wonderful answers and the insights you gave us. So thank you very much.


Hello friends, myself, Narendra Kartikar, Assistant Professor, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Valachandra Institute of Technology, Solapur. Now, I am going to discuss the topic, Surface Roughness Symbol. The learning outcome for this session at the end of this session, student will be able to understand the need of surface roughness symbol. Student will be able to apply the surface roughness symbol to the part drawing also. The content for this surface roughness symbol topic is likewise introduction, need of surface roughness symbol, surface roughness symbols in detail. Let us go with the first point, introduction, machine drawing and various symbols. As everybody knows that particularly engineering graphics rather the drawing is the language rather the mother tongue language for an engineers. Whatsoever the creations, designs, communications done by an engineers to the another engineer is through the means of majorly with the help of drawing itself. Whenever drawing is generated it includes the various geometries along with dimensions, conventions and various symbols. We know that particularly machine drawings is nothing but the subject delivering the various particular machine elemental drawings, detailed drawings, assembly drawings and many more. While drawing the particular such kind of part geometries it is required to be minimize the complications in the visualization of the drawing. The drawing includes the geometry, dimension and symbols means a full of particular such kind of elements into the big drawing. Now to represent the repeated geometry, to repeat the particularly standard geometries BIS conventions are there. Similarly, the very important parameter to the surface that is surface roughness symbol is also to be shown with a very specific and unified way. There should be a particularly a common kind of symbols to be used throughout the state nation rather globally. Let us go with the next point of discussion, need of surface roughness symbol. As just we had seen in general the various kind of drawings. Now let us particularly go with the type of drawings which we are going to learn or learn in the machine drawing. First production drawing, second assembly drawing and third many other drawings applications we are coming across like the drawings used for maintenance and many more. What is a part drawing? A part drawing is a drawing which is referred for manufacturing as well as for quality control checks also. Now to measure the particular dimensions along with the surface roughness you need to read whatever the values are shown in the form of symbols to the respective geometry. For the same we are going to use the surface roughness symbols for surfaces. In assembly drawing the matching surfaces are required to be shown with the particular surface roughness symbols so that after the assembly we will come to know what is the status of the surface contact and how the particular movement will be there after the assembly itself. Likewise many particular drawings purposes are solved with the means of surface roughness symbol which is shown on the drawing itself. After understanding the need of surface roughness symbol now let us go with the actual surface roughness symbols one by one. This particular symbol is nothing but a surface roughness symbol two legs are there this is called one leg another leg which is 60 degree at an angle from the ground rather than from the surface this hatched portion is nothing but a reference surface may be called as datum surface may be called as geometry surface of the part. Now this symbol is shown for the respective surface for which the surface roughness value is to be shown that means for outer peripheral side for example I need to show the surface roughness value I will mention the value at location A and this two leg drawing will be shown to the outer surface. The A is nothing but particularly surface roughness value and it is to be obtained by any production method the two legs are open this is not closed that means it represent that the surface roughness value to be achieved or achieved with the any production method. Now whenever there is a insisting that particularly surface roughness value to be achieved for this surface through only machining then the legs must be closed this legs must be closed and A once again mention that particularly surface roughness value many a times for quality checks the surface roughness value is to be measured for unmachined or wherever the material is not removed the such kind of surfaces surface roughness value is to be checked for the same the two legs will carry a one circle one circle it means the material removal is prohibited and rather particularly surface roughness must be obtained without removal of material. At this stage of the session are you able to recall share some of the example of mechanical elements where these symbols representation you had seen or used earlier in the drawing or sketches of any academic subject just enlist the same yes I think you had a recalled back that at the time of engineering graphics as well as the manufacturing processes subjects you had seen such kind of symbols and the resemblance of the same wherever it has been applied. Now these are the further more symbols we will see one by one this is the symbol A 1 to A 2 that means minimum surface roughness value to maximum surface roughness value which is allowed for this particular surface. The leg is further extended to the leader line and over which the milling the milled surface that means this surface roughness can be achieved through this particular machining method. This is the these are the two distinct kind of symbols. This symbol represent a see later over here where you can mention the sampling length for measurement of surface roughness many a time we require to check the surface roughness not for full surface but for small sample length. So this is mentioned at this location now to the right bottom side this perpendicular sign is mentioned what it exactly means that we will see in the next slide. This is one of the example how these symbols are shown this is the symbol which is used for outer surface and likewise. Let us go with the next important one surface roughness symbol which carries a full of information this is the triangle equilateral triangle extended line leader line. Now we will see the resemblance of alphabets and its position with respect to the information at location A position A roughness value in micrometers preceded by parameter symbol this is to be mentioned here. The B is nothing but just we are seeing in the last slide production method is to be mentioned like milling grinding etc. at the location C and oblique F or in bracket F many a time C stands for sample length sampling length in millimeters it is very important to remember that it is in millimeter. For this location surface roughness value other than RA micrometers so there is a surface roughness grade symbol what it means we will see that table in the next slide. So here E means machining allowance which is to be mentioned in the millimeter and the surface pattern is to be mentioned over here with the symbol. Surface roughness patterns are like this symbol parallel perpendicular cross multi-directional circular or radial according to the various kind of machining methods these are the different patterns and can be used these symbols at a particular location. As we had seen that other surface roughness value that is equivalent surface roughness grade symbol is to be mentioned that is from N12 to N1 so these later N1 to N12 has to be mentioned over there. So this is all about the particular surface roughness symbols the references are as follows machine drawing by Siddheeshwar Karnayya Shastri machine drawing by P. S. Gill S. K. Kataria and Sun's publications. Thank you.


look at are we amending our policy or are we doing something different with the financing? I personally and Bill Chai-Min look at the TIF district financing slightly differently. If that were to go, if we were to do something with the TIF district since the bulk of that repayment will come from education funds that we wouldn't have had access to anyway, that doesn't seem like it would necessarily be appropriate to count within the existing policy. So, and that's a council decision that do you want to separate TIF related debt or to separate the portion that is not covered by the increment and include that in your policy decisions? And if that's... Let's wait out of your... Our conversations. Those are options that... And just I think pragmatically speaking council should be aware of that though. And my understanding of the TIF proposal was, so we go ahead and we bond, regardless we have to pay it. So it's sort of whether it, whether that the Ed fund actually ends up covering it or not the city is still on the hook for those payments. And then that would in practice get added to our debt servicing totals. It would, but we then have to also increase our revenue. So the revenue for TIF is actually coming from education taxes. So that, if I'm using a baseline $15 million total revenue we really need to up that for the school portion that we would be gaining. So it would change the graph and I'm happy to go through that exercise. And I think probably, we've been talking through different options and not to get too to the minutiae here, but one, probably the logical solution is if there is some push in the front years, if it's not fully covered, then that difference it's not covered with the end fund and the other revenues coming in. But that would count that against our debt policy because that's coming from the general debt, but to the extent that it's covered through it. We have to create a TIF fund to do this. So we have to track if the monies go into it, the payments come out of it. So if anything's not covered by that, then it's a three-quarter baked thought, not a fully baked thought yet. Yeah, it's very hard to hear the conversation. Well, I will try and speak up. So moving away from the financing side of things. So I understand that you want direction from us tonight and then there's a go or no go at the end of August or sometime in August after the experimental trial phase has happened, which they're going through right now. And I really appreciate that you're experimenting and trying it out on the ground and I think that'll give us a better decision. There's a couple other things that I want to throw into that mix in terms of what we look at before the go or no go point. One piece is I understand that the engineering team hasn't, the operator, have not been able to go view one of these existing projects that have gone through this already. And I understand that there is one in Niskeuna, New York, so it's not particularly far away and I would like to have the team go see that. I don't think it would be a particularly costly investment given we're talking about many millions of dollars and I think that they could probably get a lot out of going and talking to the other plant operators and seeing something on the ground. So I would like that visit to happen before that decision point. The other, another piece that I would like to have a better handle on is this court case. I am concerned, we think we've got a good case and we think that we're not gonna have our limits adjusted, but I'm concerned that if the outcome doesn't go the way we want it that we would have made this extra infrastructure upgrade assuming that we would be able to process more incoming product. And if those limits are lowered then we wouldn't be able to do that. The math starts to not work and we would have made this huge extra investment that if we're able to bring the inputs actually nets us a positive budget impact but if we're not able to bring the inputs if we lose that court case then we're on the hook for so much more. And so I know we can't cover every possible scenario but I'd like us to have a better handle on when we think we're gonna get a resolution of that or what do we do in that circumstance before making this decision. And then the final piece that I wanna make sure is addressed is the potential need for a generator upgrade. And currently we have a backup generator because we can't afford to have those plant operations shut down in the event of a power outage and that backup generator is sized for the current needs of the plant. It sounds like we think that there would be enough energy efficiency in the upgrades that it wouldn't need to be upgraded but I want to verify that and make sure that that's included in the math that ESG is on the hook for in terms of making us whole. And I don't want that extra cost of upgrading the generator should we need to to fall on us instead of on ESG. So those are kind of the three main things that I wanna make sure that we get resolved in addition to going through this trial period before we have the go or no go. If all those are resolved correctly or in a positive way, then I would be happy to support it. And at this point with those caveats I'm willing to support the phase one as you have suggested. I'm just touching on the permit question. Sure. I don't know if this is the one that works. So on the permit issue, so in the agreement with ESG they're not, the project can't increase the effluent limits that we put out. So whether or not we did this project and our limits got dropped, for some reason through the court appeal, we'd have to do likely a significant upgrade of a different style, potentially. But we can't, the issue is we can't, our aging infrastructure needs to be replaced before the court cases resolved. So we can't wait and see what happens to that court case before we make a decision as far as moving forward with one of these three options. My concern is that the aging infrastructure input costs, the amount we're spending is, would be significantly lower than the phase one input cost. It's just that we think we're gonna make up phase one in so much extra income. And if we can't, then we would be better. Our bond payments would be the same or more. But the point I think what she's saying is that if our effluent limits were dropped, then we might not be able to take in that extra income which makes the net bond payments. In other words, it might be, if we thought we were gonna lose the court case, would it be smarter to just do the basic eight instead of spending this money and then not getting the offsetting revenue? If for some reason we then couldn't meet the new effluent limits. Or is that a completely different process that we'd have to do no matter what? That's what I think. Right, and it would be a completely different upgrade. Under either ageing infrastructure. To lower, if for some reason our effluent limit was significantly lowered by permit, we would have to do a completely different style upgrade to the plant, whether or not we took in the high strength waste or not. So it wouldn't get us away from doing that upgrade if our permit limits were lowered. We'd still have to do it. Would the upgrade, I'm assuming that the upgrade would have to be more expensive and bigger if we were processing more incoming products? I think it would be pretty similar because of the way we structured the agreement with ESG and that they can't change our current limits. So that's just, I mean, you don't have to resolve it tonight but that's one thing I need to know before August, so. I understand, okay. Ashley, I guess sort of hearing it rephrased that way. I mean, lawyers and the court process take forever. Realistically, we probably won't have a decision for an extended period of time on this issue. Is that fair to say? I can't say for sure. The last one took, I think, 10 years to resolve last time our permit was appealed. Well, boy, that makes me complain a lot less about my job. So, I didn't really, I'm a little, the 10 years is kind of surprising. I figured you would say like two years. So it sounds like at least one part of the project is substantially the same. Like the aging infrastructure pieces has to happen. And so, is it, and I'm only asking, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but is it something where it could be a conditional, like if the state approves, you know, and if the court decides in favor of Montpelier, then we would proceed with the other piece if the court decides against raising the limits. I think it would be difficult to get a contractor to price out a project like that. And Larry's here for me, I see you can speak to that, but. And I think I sort of, like if I were the lawyer in the room, I know what I would say, but I think it's a fair question to ask, especially given the 10 year, I mean, if we're gonna be litigating this for that long and.  And so, you know, the courts have all seen it, and there's a Supreme Court decision now that there wasn't before, and so who knows. Right, it just seems like it might be a prudent approach if there were willing parties at the table, it could. Sure. So Larry Doyle, DSG, I think part of the answer would be, you know, Kirk mentioned that there would be an upgrade cost either way. So if the phase one project weren't done, the facility would still be subject to some type of an upgrade as it would under the phase one project. So I think one of the things we could probably get back as an answer is what's that delta, right? You know, is it a $100 change under the basic project and $150 change in general powers? And I'm not sure, I know we've looked at that, but I think we'll revisit that and see if we can come up with an engineer's probable estimate of cost. The upgrade will have some benefits to the plant in terms of its flexibility and ability to handle and treat certain nutrients. So there are some upside advantages to making the digesters work and digest. So it's kind of a balance, you know, there's a number of factors in, but I think we'll crunch through some of those numbers and provide you to get an answer back. Other comments, questions? Okay, so I guess I'll just weigh in that. I'm happy to support your suggestion.  Like, let's do it up. But if phase two is something that maybe we can consider further down the road, fine, let's get some success. There's lots to think about. It's still a lot of money, fair enough. So we need some kind of vote on this? Probably, right? I think this is going to form our design decisions. Yeah, check. I'll make a motion that we approve the plan of the Department of Public Works to proceed on the basis of doing phase one, recognizing that this isn't the final decision on what's happening. I'll second that. Any further discussion? Yes, Glenn. Just to be clear, are we talking? I can't hear you, Glenn. Okay, sorry. To be clear, are we talking phase one energy neutral? Is that the? Yes. Okay, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, great. Thank you all. I know, right? It's only 10.07. I like your choice. Oh my gosh. Is anybody still here for these other things? Probably not. One possibility team is that we could continue to not talk about the strategic plan. Or we could, because it's not 10.30. I'm fine, letting it go. Plus, we have to talk about MIAC. Oh, that's right. Yeah, so with regard to the strategic plan, I don't want to open up the whole can of work, but really all of yours, my goal tonight was just sort of proof check what you did. So if people have had a couple of weeks since we did this and you've read the plan and if anybody really wanted to make a case that something should be drastically different, we wanted to have that opportunity because we're putting work plans to each, specific efforts that you'll see at the next meeting and we just didn't, we want to make sure it was still matching. So if people are happy, that's the end of this agenda. I hit a few things. See, I gave you too much warning. Yeah, yeah, right. So I can run through this really quickly. Nope, okay, just kidding. Rosie says no. I just, we got it in these at 10 o'clock. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. We'll take it up next time and... Make it the first agenda item next time? Sure. Sure. We're gonna set a date for the hearing. Oh, right, well let's do the MIAC thing first and then let's set a date for the... So MIAC had proposed a number of changes to their by-laws. As I was reading through the by-laws, I noticed this one sentence that says, nominating new members, current board members will nominate and propose all new board members to city council, which is not how we normally do things with most committees. It sounds like that was a carryover from when the organization was an independent organization. I did have a chance to check with the chair of the committee and she said that actually this hasn't been their practice that they have relied on us to advertise for vacancies. So she didn't have a problem with us just striking this. So I would move that we adopt the by-law amendments as proposed by MIAC with the addition of striking the sentence, nominating new members, current board members will nominate and propose all new board members to city council. I'll second that. Any further discussion? All in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. That was a good catch. Deliberative session. Deliberative session. So one hypothesis is that we tack it on to another meeting. Another hypothesis is that it's its own separate time. I don't have strong feelings about this. What is? To do it at a separate time. Separate time? Do you want to pick like a Wednesday that we're otherwise not meeting? Well, we're also running into vacations too. That's inevitable. After the 27th, I've got two weeks when we're not, when I'm not going to be here. And that's why we, it's one of the reasons we took off the 11th of July. If we have a light, it's not as light as it used to be, but if we have a lighter agenda for the 27th, it might not be a bad thing to do on the 27th. I don't think we do. I mean, it's lighter than tonight maybe, but we also just pushed a couple of things from tonight and we're starting with a fire department tour. Too short. 20? Too short. What, what's too short? Notice for next Wednesday for me. Oh, you mean the 20th? I'm like booking like two or three weeks out. So what about the 20th, oh gosh, the 27th is a regular council meeting. We've got. The next Wednesday is July 4th, fire tour. Yeah, definitely not July 4th. I'm available, I don't have to work. I mean, the next time would be July 11th. Can we do a doodle poll? Yeah, I want to do that. You know, I think the other thing, I mean, I'm just going to say this out loud, but you know, it may not take that long. I think that's right. Yeah. We could probably have an executive session tonight. So, let's do a doodle poll. Doodle poll. And maybe it'll be a, we could always do a call-in. We could do a conference call. I'll be down for, okay. Everyone's got the evidence, right? So when we do the doodle poll, maybe we could just keep in mind that you don't have to be physically present. Like, or would you be available for a call-in even? And it sounds like that's not Ashley's favorite thing, but that's okay. Just like in-person. The conference calls are terrible. I'm sorry. It wasn't terrible. We'll find, we'll find something. We have a new conference phone, though. I mean, I'd like to just argue for speed in general. I think the sooner we can get it done within the 60-day limit would be my preference. Yep, I agree. Okay, so doodle poll. We'll get that done soon. All right, wow. And it's only 10-12. Oh, council reports. I don't remember where we started. So we're gonna start with Ashley. We'll go that way. Hot seat. Okay. I have two things. One, I've been given the discussion we've had in the last few weeks of the Parkland ordinance and some dissatisfaction people have with it. I went through one period where two days in a row, the first thing that I was thinking about when I woke up was writing out proposed changes to the Parkland ordinance. So I thought, and I didn't do it the first of those days. So I thought, well, I should actually do that. And so I've been figuring out what I think would make sense to make it a more standards-based and rational approach.  And I think that I'd like to, I'm gonna continue to pursue having, planning how we could restructure that. That's the one thing. The other thing is something that I'm really struck by tonight and Stephen brought this up, but every time I've been in a meeting when there's any significant number of people here, there are always people in the back saying they can't hear what's going on. And it really seems to me that people are entitled to come to the city council meetings and hear what's going on. So I don't know what needs to be done to improve the sound system so that all of the discussion from everyone is audible. And I know part of it is speakers need to understand they need to get right on top of the microphone, but I would like to have some discussion or ask staff to look at what can be done to really make the sound system work for the people who wanna hear what's happening in the meetings. I can't hear over here half the time. So basically if you face one another, it doesn't come across. Yeah, and you have the summer when you have air conditioning and you get that going. I'll just tell you that I agree and actually my first note that I wrote here was what happened to our sound system overhaul. So we will be on this, Sue texted me about it earlier tonight, we'll be on this first thing in the morning. We did talk about moving it closer. Well, there's lots of things we could do, but I think it's a constant problem needs to be fixed. I would like to put in a plug, even besides this for the sound purposes of moving these closer, because in order to be heard, you have to lean over and it's really uncomfortable and awkward. Better mics or different mics too. I mean, like we may need to think about it. I don't, yeah, I don't wanna have to lean. At my conference, they had some really cool mics that do all kinds of things. Can't hear you. Oh, I was saying at the conference I was at, there were vendors there with amazingly cool mics that did all kinds of things. High priority on the strategic plan. Sorry, yeah. So this is something that I've talked with Bill and Tom about a little bit and given our experience tonight, dealing with a city government a hundred years ago that didn't quite follow the right paperwork and now we're trying to resolve it again. I wanted to mention to the other counselors that we do have a little bit of an unresolved issue with Ledgewood Terrace and there's a number of different issues, but that street has not been fully accepted as a city street. It is being maintained by the city and there's some other unresolved issues and that have meant that it's not been fully accepted with regard to ownership and it's certainly a complicated situation and there hasn't been a sense of urgency about fixing it, which I completely understand because we're maintaining it, the property owners don't really have a reason to be upset with us at this point, but I also want to not leave it for people a hundred years from now to figure out. So I just want to flag that for the rest of you so you're aware of it and hope that at some point we can get that resolved. I'm into it. Sweep it out. Nothing to say other than I will be at Baguitos tomorrow morning, 8.30 to 9.30 and I look forward to seeing anyone who feels like coming. We've had good turnout the last couple of weeks and I'm really enjoying it, so thank you. All right, so I'm picking up a little project. They started a few months ago, trying to establish a sort of free walking tour of Montpelier to sort of capture the history and culture of the place. I see it as a real missed opportunity when we have hundreds of buses coming, they step out, take a picture of the state house and they hop back on the bus. So if we could have a volunteer driven sort of set, you know, tour of the town where you say, oh, this is a great restaurant, you know, why don't you like pop in here? I think we could do it for free, maybe working with the senior center, but I'd really be interested in talking to the people who have good stories or anything about Montpelier, but sexy it up a little bit, you know? Not that it's not sexy, but it's a, and I got some great materials from Paul Carnahan and folks who have done it in the past. Historical one. Yeah, but historical, you know, General Lafayette gave his speech here, this type of stuff. So any input is appreciated on that? I would volunteer to help with that. You'd be a good guide. I want to ask Bill if anyone was going to the building of a sense of place? Laura from MDC is, and I'm not sure about Dan Groberg. I can't, but... Dan, okay, I really thought it would be good. The other one... The one last year was great, but definitely I know for sure Laura's going. And yesterday, did anyone go to the hub, community hubs? I did. Did you? Because I wanted to, and my granddaughter's graduation. The three of us there had a great discussion. So you're going to share that with us because... Like I said, the three of us. Oh, just the three of us. Oh, too sad. Okay. It was a lovely drive to Hartford, though. Yeah, yeah. And I just want to get back to Ashley and ourselves about the committee on committees and on social justice, economic justice. If we're going to go ahead and put the community workshops in the fall, we've got to do some planning this summer. And I didn't know if you were chairing that committee too, but I just put a plug in. Well... It needs to be on the agenda. And it also came up. We had our CAB meeting. So I guess I do have something to say. We had our community advisory board meeting for the CJC the other night. And I had to leave a little bit early, but I think that there are a number of things. Yvonne and I are going to sit down at some point, hopefully pretty soon. Just have to camera out my work schedule. So that we can kind of put some things together that I've been chatting about for a bit now, civic discourse forum, and a couple of other things that came up as well. I'm really interested in those. So think of me, please. Yes. So I have a couple of things. One is I want to invite you all to the official opening of the Gertin Pocket Park, which is next Tuesday at five o'clock. There's going to be ice cream and music and just hanging out in a cool space. So please, if you have time, put it on your calendar. Five o'clock next Tuesday. Graduation is this Friday. So congratulations to all the graduating seniors. Very exciting. Another. And you guys are all welcome to tickets. And if you don't use them, you're welcome to give them to me. Sorry. Can I just say that out loud?  I'm sorry, Bill. Let me know if you need some. So that was one thing. Another item is I did end up getting a chance to meet with Phil from the TW Wood Gallery. Did I tell you this already? I think the answer is no. I think I've not told you this. He had picked out some art from the gallery that he thought met the goals that I had outlined. And so sometime in July, this art is going to come down and be switched out for some art that just represents different people, which I'm pretty excited about. It's black and white.  Doesn't have to be up forever. No, and that's the goal. We actually even talked about maybe leaving that up for most a year. And then we can look at switching it out again, et cetera. And just want to also point out that there have been some really fun groundbreaking and ribbon cuttings lately, like celebrating the opening of Rome and Onion River Outdoors. That's exciting. We had a great groundbreaking for the Taylor Street. There's some really exciting things happening this summer. And I'm, anyway, it really is great. So anyway, just excited about all that. I'm going to miss this art. And I guess I'm the only one, but I love these things. I come in and look at them sometimes. No one else is around. You've had them. You could probably put them in your office. There's no space in there now. So what have I got to say? It sounds like there's a little more interest from you all about the non-citizen voting initiative thing. So let me just tell you where that's at. We're finally been barely busy in the office, but there's finally a meeting of an ad hoc, self-defined working group to try to narrow down what some of these proposals could look like for a ballot. And it does sound like there's probably going to be a special city meeting on concurrent with the November general election. So probably be working towards putting a charter change on there. And there's a few different ways it could go. So I'll let you all know. But if you're interested, it's 5.30 next Friday. What is that, the 22nd, I think? Yeah, next Friday, the 22nd. I just mentioned that I found out when we were sitting here that I finally got my quest to add more letters after my name. I'm now a certified municipal clerk. So it's my CMC to go with my CH and my ADD and all that other stuff. And last thing, I keep thinking there's going to be some kind of gathering, but I never hear anything. So if I warmed up the grill in my weird little yard on St. Paul Street and just sent out a date, would you all come? Sure, try. OK, well, I will work towards. Bring you some buns. All right, that's great. It's not a big space. And my house is weird. It's sort of slowly sinking into the ground where the old sewer used to be. But it should be there. It's time to get us to come look at the old sewer. OK, I'll give out an email, and I'll check with Carrie about a date. OK, I'll try to be brief. Just we do have a hearing with the state on Tiff on June 28. I think I'll let you know that we've had some good conversations about the parking garage. Hopefully, we'll have something to present to you some point in the near future. And lastly, I did send you an update on one Taylor and just looking to see if anyone has any objection or has any concerns. If we consider the option of selling the parcel that we didn't sell on May 15 when we were going to sell it. Hold for it. Go for it. We're not committing to it, but I want to make sure that that's a mix because we might need to do it. I just ran into someone downtown today who said, when's the city going to tear down that building? We just went in it today. We just we haven't done it that long. Sue and Todd and I just went inside it today. Take showers after we inspect. Oh, dear. Oh, I bet you it must. Soon. OK, that's all I had. All right. All right, so without objection, I consider the meeting adjourned. Thank you. I'd love your help on that one, too. Yeah, happy to. Can't wait to end up going home with all of this.   So that we did. We won't get stiff.


Everybody forced here up in 23 24 upper deck series one just the camera real quick Six box number seven hobby six box number seven will randomize now, and then we'll get started random team break all teams in When we can pull a bad art SP here 11 times 11 times or super low numbered young guns one two three four five six seven eight nine ten and eleven Drew B down to Brian B and the teams here one two three four five six seven eight nine ten and 11 Sharks down to Keynes Drew B sharks Islanders Rick T. Kings Dennis R. Oilers Bradley E. Kraken Brian B. Blackhawks Matt K. Wings and Sabres Drew B Rangers Glenn G with the jackets Brian B jets Cameron C. Capitals Kang Al Flames Jimmy T. Lightning Bradley E. Knights Neng S. Canadians Drew B predators Dennis R. Blues Matt K. Ducks Stephen K. Wilde Frank Y. Leafs Neng S. Panthers Bradley E. Coyotes Nate S. Avalanche Spencer F. Senators Jeff H. Devils Bradley E. Penguins Brian B. Stars Carrie K. Bruins Bradley E. Canucks Brian B. Flyers and Keynes I'm posting the results of the website right now They're available there anytime results quickly gives the bottom of the website and I'm dropping you a link to those results as well right now All right last few teams are a Are there seven total teams left in sterling tonight, and that is it y'all that is it Seven total teams left. Here we go with some series one little yoddy a.k.a. Lil Bo a.k.a. one-man kayak Demudates gutten in Mark Stone portraits for the nights canvas of Ronik I'll roll for the checklist the whole break right now They'll go same way one two three left four five six right Checklists are all going to go left all left Special edition is eventually Stapreds Carrier teachers pet young guns is Eric's an eck for the ducks Ali Eric's an egg Yep, just pirates left in that one guys Seven total teams left in the three breaks Kutrov 285 pasta on a roll. That's a cool canvas of Carlson for the sharks We're out of the going out through the shark in the entrance there We talk about illegal Losing it Mitch Marner star zone Stapbox Kachuk young guns is kelemann for the I Yachts Nealus kelemann Rookie retrospective Jack Quinn superstar honor roll Seth Jones. There's the silver of David Yerchak for the jackets. Oh 11 and 11 okay, all right Codry special edition clear young guns is Kessel for the blues Nice SP there Brock Faber young guns for the wild now Maddox live Almanac tomorrow and Sunday David H. Rowley Ridley-Greig Jack Hughes on the honor roll Mitch Marner canvas Or Leafs Kent Johnson on the star surge for the jackets Boone Jenner teachers pet and a Yiri Patera young guns for the Knights I'm a slow illegal Evangelista 285 boldly portraits for the wild Our really canvas is thatcher Demko for the conducts. Hey, there we go Stamiel bolder on the silver young guns for the Islanders Star zone of Sydney Crosby taged Thompson stat box and a young guns have gruden for the pens We should have Sean pronounce all the hockey names Dazzlers of Timo Meyer for the Devils Dostal retrospective Robertson honor roll Pop count 500 for the Islanders Bo Horvath Special edition Brady Kitchuck Young guns is Gushine for these sharks a lot of young is in that box. I guess because there was a clear and a silver Hey, we'll take that Kind of what you're looking for out of this stuff. All right guys. We are down to Five total spots left in breaks tonight Personals looking Fuller Not full. So you want to personal get the orders in if you want a sterling spot. You got a hurry better hurry five total spots Zegros report card shifely honor roll canvas young guns is going to be Marco Casper for the wings Yeah, the Bucks blueies. I'm not a huge fan of Star search of Sanderson Senators Davy dates Kaiser young guns jet greaves of the jackets they losing them. That's because they're wearing those Those are the city connect, right? Not great. They're not really. Yeah The majority of city connects are not city connect, but city additions are terrible this year. I Thought the magics wasn't that good, but comparatively it's actually pretty solid to like many others It's a moshirtle Huber dough on the portraits going to the flames canvas is Wyatt Johnston Special edition is Matthew Nye's for the Leafs McKinnon stat box a Day RNA is our name for the Oilers young guns. Yes, some of them are very terrible I thought the magic one was not so great Then I saw the full uniform looks better for the Orlando magic the jerseys kind of a house like a fan of it It's like Dallas Cowboys Yeah, it's like cowboys If the shorts look cool, though the way that the shorts it knows it definitely makes it better I don't think it's a good one, but it's definitely not like a bad one. It's just meh What's the point? Pedersen out of Fox honor roll silver is a benesad for the for the Rangers What do you guys think is the worst one the Grizzlies or the heat those are both awful they aren't a yeah, so I figured Starzone Bergey for the Bruins Nielander on the black and white canvas Leafs and a young guns of Edmondson Edmondson for the wings They beauty it's evangelista bark off honor roll and Lucas Raymond canvas wings. You are mark. Are you? Think Sean knew that already Jackson's Stalber star search for the Hawks Johnson rookie retrospective and a Henry throne young guns for the sharks It's 285 is hella buck Josh Norris portraits for the Sens canvas of sprung I think we've pulled one out of three cases Pulled one draft SP Peltier special edition flames shisterkin teachers pet I wouldn't deck young guns for Montreal As teeth knocked out. I have good dental if you're pro hockey player Dazzler Seth Jones for the Hawks Kyle Conner stat box superstar Fiala Maybe dates is Forster for the Flyers Starzone is Dougie for the devils and a Marco Casper young guns for the wings It's two boxes down. I'd love to see a bidard SP right here Huberdoe teachers pet Mitch Marner portraits for the Leafs That's Lundell canvas Panthers Starzone of Shifley debut dates Beck Coolie young guns is a cool your coil. It's cool. You're right for the Rangers Yeah, the heat is the heat one stuff You'll see 285 Stutzel honor roll canvas of Oshie Team USA legend DJ Oshie Took down the Soviets all on his own pop count 500 David posture knock Bruins Stat box ovies special to cough honor roll and a silver Josh Anderson for Montreal Star search Lucas Raymond Redwings Young guns black and white canvas is Matthew Coronado for the flames. That's actually a pretty cool one It's a good young guns to get there you go flames Coronado black and white canvas young guns young guns is Nestorenko for the Ducks now Nikita Nestorenko Grayden point special edition Now a Kate's there Stalber young guns for the Blackhawks Yeah, flames are a mess. Coronado is good though. Teachers pet is mcdavid baneers portraits for the Kraken and a canvas is gonna be Sorokin for the Islanders Tage Thompson special edition debut dates day RNA white Kaiser young guns for the Hawks Yeah, it is it is very much like a flagship set though Usually you get one or two every every like six boxes or so dry side. Oh, there's a z-gross superstar honor roll canvas of hastening for the flames Starzone a brain point lightning honor roll of baneers And young guns of asgarov predator's nice card Yaroslav Asgarov Dazzlers of nilander Tatar teachers pet larkin Yeah, we need that. We need this break to heat up a bit now Vasilevsky teachers pet star surge of Ridley greege and a young guns of akita harosi with the conucks Maybe it's me Wyatt Johnston to mosh hurdle portraits for the sharks canvas young guns is going to be Coppenin for the Bruins Copenin Copenin Starzone of austin matthews teachers pet of ulmark And a mero line and young guns for the senators point 285 dry side all superstar canvas of bennington or not kairu kairu not bennington kairu Blues either way got ovi teachers pet superstar coffield silver is forest burg for the predators You like the nets ones really? We all thought the bulls ones were terrible star surge slivkovsky canadiens Gold 285 is robertson stars and young guns his pellets here for the flames Debutates asgarov caprice of portraits wild and a canvas of noris for the senators It's the benizad and mckinnon on a roll and a canvas of brand burns for the uh canes Come on. Let's heat up here. Come on starzone of stampco's panarin stat box and young guns is sean ferrell from montreal pasta limited edition Pavelsky stat box kaiser young guns again for the hawks dazzler's de brusk ruins teachers pet gustafson superstar carter heart Come on. Bedard. Where are you? Deluxe number to 250 is going to be zerkaz for the uh for the canadiens harbour zerkaz Did I say his name is he guy?  We need to heat up a bit though Fiala teachers pet marner honor roll and a canvas young guns of bulldoke for the islanders Never thought about that way That's not the biggest fan though. They're okay. They're just very bland ovey uh star zone dirondo mcdonough young guns for the uh Canucks Uh, see I don't maybe that's why panaren killer canvas kent johnson for the jackets star surge of cider for the wings you got teachers pet kachuk for the panthers and a guppman young guns go into the uh black awks Stapbox petterson fiala for the kings on the portraits and a silver young guns is yuri patera going to the knights The outburst silver young guns. They're very nice a um eichel special edition nitchewskin on the clear going to the abs and a dirondo young guns islanders superstar bohorvat canvas is ross colton for the bolts Uh, sorry jr. I didn't see that That's good though, man. That's good though.  I imagine you're probably gonna sell it, right? mark stone star zone debut dates bulldoke and young guns is de4 for the islanders islanders doing well here Uh, the utah one is pretty cool. The utah jazz one the suns is okay What is the other one? I like the lot uh ranson and gedro canvas of silverberg ducks special edition aho for the canes canes aho tage thompson teachers pet luke hughes young guns. There you go devils.  David gusts exclusives young guns of 250 going to the black hawks Number young guns. That's really the chase here kuzmenko star surge and evangelista young guns predators All right. Here we go. Last one debut dates stalber bukanevich honor roll. You got mcdonough canvas It's a big mustard cat right there big mustard cat That's pretty that's a that's a fair criticism Clayton keller special edition mccan teachers pet I find a say of young guns for the predators Yeah, I got you jonathan. I got you I held on to the ones that I uphold for a bit. I'm trying to sell them both now Great in point honor roll zuccarello canvas for the wilds star surges gunther for the yachts A uh sanderson retrospective and young guns is devon levi for the sabers You could always list it like way higher than you think it's going to and then see if anybody offers on it You know what I mean? Maybe you just get blown away with some crazy offer kutrov stat box Cider portraits for the wings and a silver set jarvis going to the canes teachers pet marner superstar baneers Skinner canvas Come on badaard. Where you at badaard Special edition is hues debutates palatier young guns Checklists hues and knives Went to the left, right? So to go to the hues side Probably just graded anyway, right jonathan Either way, I don't know it's only up to you then I guess jage thompson honor roll canvas sanderson for the senators star surge white jonathan stars Staff box connor mc david and coppin and young guns bruins I need to get some new chairs in My back is on fire Dazzlers his palatier flames mc david portraits for the oilers To 100 exclusive for the islanders. This is Noah dobson awesome matthew special edition young guns is ginning For the flyers ginning or ginning? All right, how you getting stars own mc david oilers gold mccann 200 by 85 for this The kraken and a matthew knives young guns for the leafs nice knives Solid break there a few numbered cards Nothing huge huge I appreciate everybody uh filling that one up do a quick recap here and We are also Sold out for the night. Let's go before nine eastern appreciate friday friday. Well, thank you That's pretty awesome That hasn't happened in a while. No No Clarisse Thank you guys appreciate it, man. All right. It's still a little bit of room for personal since we're sold out now We're gonna have more time for personal. It's how that works, huh? Young guns is nice ginning coppin and Uh went to the left on these when hues Devon Levi Appanaceev Vangelista gusts to 250 young guns exclusives for the hawks Luke Hughes Defour de rondo gutman mcdonough bulldoke ferrell kaiser Pelletier marilion herosie asgarov kaiser Stalber Nestoranko Black and white canvas young guns was coronado for the flames. We got cooly Casper Beck Throon Edmondson de Arnais Greaves Gushine Gruden Paterra Faber Clear Kessel For the blues. We had kelement and ericsson act very little duplicates. That's something we like to see right there For group break purposes, obviously Silvers of seth Jarvis Paterra Forsberg Anderson Pop count 500 was david postronok Sabanajad Pop count 500 Bohorvat Bulldoke And Yerecek Thanks again everybody moving on now to premiere