What's going on everybody got Kyle here relating sports cars, and we are ripping and this is Cosmic Chrome six-box number 22 PYT stop me read off the names here. We've got Anthony B with the rates We've got Brock T twins Brody C has the blue jays chin you has the angels We got Chris Pete Marlins Chris L has the D backs Clayton M has the White Sox Brewers Heidi C Cubs Ian H has the Rangers Ian Sorry, Ian H has the Orioles Ian T has the Rangers got Jeff E with the Cardinals. We got Jimmy G with the Pirates Joe T is the Mariners Jordan N or Padres Joseph S. Braves keep Jay Royals Kendall M has Red Dodgers Kenny K has the Mets got Chris Chris C Red Sox Leonie G Nationals mark a with the Astros Peter M or Peter H has the Tigers Ruben Y Guardian Spencer D has the A's and the Giants Tom C Yankees got Web key are with the Phillies and Zachary J. Has the Rockies Alrighty guys, let's get this one going Cosmic number 22 come on Pluto Come on Pluto Trying to see a Pluto Oh Horses happy or I'm gonna tie it up. Let's go cherries. I'm on cherries Appreciate the update George Karaza. I got Herrera and Fuji Nami. There's a Adley clutchman Solanke Solanke got a Shane Bieber to 199 Aqua lava Solanke in the voice I didn't know anybody on the team the first time for us that we were fans So I was Solanke in the boys in Gorman carol rookie ET got a angels on the star clusters Bobby wit starry night rookie Frankie. Yeah guys tend to go tend to go on mosaic Pick your pick your team stop first break with spots today. Got a two Merlin half cases coming next Masataka rookie Libertor Riley green Let's go florist Let's go Orioles on the star clusters Yeah, it is villa my truck ET If it was in a there's a little league at seeming probably via Don't apologize to me J guy consistently Say the names wrong. So you thought that was being pronounced. Yeah, I know same Is that Neto? Yeah, Tom Fletcher this one is gonna be a roll a dice here one two will go the left three four We'll go to the middle and four five six will go the right for the entire break here all these triples Got a couple of different styles. I'm it's gonna be five again to the rights To the rights on these triples. Come on cherries Launch into orbit Goldie The cherries rookie Josh young ranges got a star clusters d-backs Byron bucks in ET bring it loud blue is Bregman number to 99 strobes Number to 99 Alex Bregman Kodai Senga ET curtain grudges refractor rookie sit down by the fire That speaker over here for us. Come on. We need it. Come on for us. Let's let us play some Ico Ico here Matthew Libertor on the Scope and star cluster strokes Yeah, Caleb got copyright strikes every single time you went live so might as well I got a people on the launch into orbit Alrighty guys box to box to come on planetary Gotta see one here Hey, thank you Corey grabbing the Hawks and three of the brakes today. Thank you. Thank you Corey Dang it Dang it No approval. It's like we just got to sing it No, we sing it so accurately they might it might copyright strike us anyway. Yeah, we sing it so accurately Say that has to be a recording Can't be someone's voice. Nice. We got rookie stellar Nova. It's gonna be Corbin Carroll. Very nice. Boom Stella Nova short print nice one there d-backs It's only the second one of these I've seen the Stella Nova. It's a sick-looking die-cut. Nice hip there d-backs will mag that Valdas behind it. I like get a deal with the extra trestle talent Bakunya have to get a deal to do that. I don't know. I know YouTube doesn't but Wondering what the process is to allow the Vargas rookie on the starry night Clusters for the Rangers. Yeah, guys teams are on sale for mosaic down to nine now guys in that first one Down to nine now teams are on sale Got clusters for the blue J's E.T. Trey Turner, rookie Corbin Carroll. The Corbin's coming for the d-backs There's a Austin Riley launched into orbit. He does do that too. All the Braves the launcher into orbit Say star clusters Yankees Not surprised with how Olson and the cunea and like there's J rod launched into orbit You'll never guess who set the record. Who did it? Like who hit the record on him. Hmm. Yoshida. I don't know It was not tabbed to be there storming flip-stop. Oh Vaughn. Mm-hmm. No Ooh, Planet Sarri. Ooh Is it the Sun? It's a J walk. It is Mercury of Ronald Acunya Jr. Planet Sarri Pursuit Nice one there Braves on the Mercury Nice one there Acunya Jake still believes he's MVP. I mean hard to hard to argue Breaking records breaking up or creating records. I guess orange Orange orange. It is Justin Verlander on the orange for the Mets there to 25 Verlander on the Mets 10 of 25 It's a nice oranges today. Let's keep those going see a rat or something to So Tati's ET Refractor is Matt Mervis mash mash Mervis Star cluster is going to Mookie on the right the Dodgers Jeremy Pena ET and Padres clusters scope Bail Bail Boston Matt Chapman refractor Bail Bail that'll do it for box number two Box number three now Hey, thank you. Hi, Ato taking the Kings down to eight to go now guys. We go eight to go on our first Mosaic single digits. Thank you. Jeremy taking the Patriots in a leak there as well And John taking the Hornets in our first mosaic appreciate you guys Moving along teams are on sale guys as well for Mosaic basketball take a look at what's left We got actually 90 go still still 90 go take a look teams on sale box number three There's a shore bar under 199 Aqua wave Show it show hate ET you think that it dummies is a wander in this picture Pretty much. It's a 99 starly Marseille Pablo Lopez It's got the the brew crew blue jerseys on always makes you think that Matt Mervis refractor. They look like our One throwback Yeah, the 70s throwback. Yeah Seattle there on the clusters Steve Steve Steve Face fuchsia tongue out face fuchsia tongue out agreed agreed agreed. Oh, Tony. So I'm feeling today Steve Oh, Tony on the star night to your downs got clusters blue jays Tauti's we got star clusters mookie on the right there. It's a Josh young rookie gunner Gonna drip or drown You got a Kyle Stowers rookie scope Cabrera rookie. There's a rushman Thank you, Steve. Thank you extra trust real talent Acunia. I do appreciate that Appreciate you stopping by throwing some some of the emojis in the chat Michael Harris rookie. Hopefully a pretty easy day today work for you Get Sean taking a team in NT. I believe for later with Sam Don't forget guys like I was saying we got fanatics force going live on fanatics on five o'clock today Five o'clock same time as Sam Sam will be live here. Super Fractur Sammy. We've been calling him. He'll be live here Better than his other nickname Carl gave him. So we'll go with we'll go with Super Fractur Sammy We got Frank Thomas launched into orbit clusters d-backs face blue smiling face blue smiling person to our course Turquoise waving Couldn't agree more Steve More Here's a launch into orbit rafi Bail Bail Already guys box for box for The cherries got us tied up right now One one. I know you're watching that exciting match Bournemouth versus Brentford spectrum decided to lose the SPN. So we're just watching the MLB network Yep, that's all we got now. That's all we got. Thank you spectrum. Corey seager on the ET. That's smart TV Looks like it. Got a star cluster's bets. I'll go to the right It's a good question. If it is I might log into you TV here spectrum. He's doing Not today, but Got a wander starry night Rangers star clusters a Harper ET Cody Sanka gonna Drip it down. We got Dominic Fletcher a rookie for the d-backs number to 75 on the green Come on Planetary got a clusters for the blue Jays It's a launch into orbit jump Karlo. I keep looking at that. I don't really like those those braids throw back you to home Zacunia's got there The ones that he's wearing right there. You don't like it. I don't like those launch into orbit Miguel the blue and whites Those are so sick. Those are actually their city connects. Hmm. I don't know. I'm not a big fan There's a star clusters Yankees If it says the a on it, it's their city connects. Hey, thank you. Hi, Ato taking the 76ers now and um Mosaic and Sean taking an NT division spot appreciate you sir. Nine to go. Nine to go still on our first mosaic Go get going after two Merlins here got Walker butane in 99 On the blue little color-matched doctors Sam calling Bam Bam Jram to one 99 guardians On the blue Bam Bam Jram There's a vato ET rookie Oscar Coloss They need to put the Mike Breen bang on that There's a ET Riley green Padre clusters scope is hobby. How he buy as tigers Edward Julian rookie twins Beyo, that'll do it for box for Box five come on Pluto Come on super Come on come on 30 seconds to Mars 30 seconds come on planes ever suit Been there been there many times There's a nice J-Rod on the aqua to one 99 Julio To one 99 O'Neill cruise ET got a clusters Red Sox Starry night trout clusters go to the right J run. Yes, sir George come on Trying to see what we got Randy on the refractor Base pack is a Michael Harris looks like an auto. It is George Kirby on the auto for the Mariners Starting pitcher for the Mariners there nice Kirby refractor auto Nice young stud Right you guys keep it moving here some Merlin soccer are coming next Wander ET a Gala Maya. We got a star clusters for the Phillies rookie Vaughn rookie Jordan Walker and a launching to orbit Jordan as a J walk ET Yoshida Cavalli rookie on the scope Launching to orbit Harper come on planetary the Riley green on the Tigers there on the right Right on those triplets to one 99 we got hunter green on the aqua green for the Reds aqua green for the Reds Rookie Paraza rookie Herrera Soto ET Come on come on scope Christian Walker Blede rookie refractor rookie Adley clutchman Met some of the team card and one more box here guys one more box Box six. This was chrome six box number 22 Get some Merlin soccer going next got two half casers both filled up Still working on a mosaic basketball guys got nine to go in our first mosaic PYT today Teams are on sale teams are on sale. No gold ET It is Mazataka Yoshida on the rookie gold ET Nine out of 50 nice one there Red Sox. Wow That is very nice there as a sick-looking design my man nice hit Red Sox Gold ET Yoshida and a base ET Yoshida back-to-back Yoshida's scope out to bank Got a clusters Astros Nice hit there Sox Come on Planetary. It's in Donald Planetary here got a glad junior Starry night clusters O's rookie Frankie Alvarez ET Launch into orbit the kid not so much a kid anymore. I suppose but Always be the kid rookie Vargas news D-back star clusters Cossus Launch into orbit Soto Spencer strikeout. There's another Jayrod on the Aqua wave or Aqua shimmer Second Jayrod to 199 S1 Mariners that kid can play baseball. Yes, you can And Jayrod ET the twins fishing gear is hilarious rookie Dom Fletcher refractor 1000 Rakes There's a gunner and 299 we got DL Hall Orioles on the rookie You see they gifted the gopher bear No fishing really Josh young rookie Bobby with ET clusters angels Right how much Yeah, it's been funny like every every Tigers game. They got people coming up to him like hugging him and stuff There's a Matt McLean refractor. He's doing the farewell tour Anthony Volpe pretty much I think bulls it last year There's a clusters Jayrod And last pack here guys would go on some Merlin next righty that'll do it for Chrome number 22 do a quick hit recap here and we'll get going on some Merlin do a random here in just a moment I'm Bieber Schwerber Jayram green Julio and Julio to 99. We have Bueller Marta and Bregman and DL Hall rookie to 75 Dom Fletcher rookie and Berliner 25 We had Otto George Kirby for the Mariners and we had a planetary pursuit not one is Mercury there Ronald Cunha. We had the Corbin Carroll Stella Nova short print and we had Masataka Yoshida on the gold extra terrestrial talents insert Very nice half case there Appreciate you guys that'll do it for number 22. We'll get Merlin going next


Okay, we're all set. We can get started now. Welcome to the How to Get Your Colonel Bugs fix talk. One of the reasons we decided to have this talk is that we need to have this talk is we've got a lot of Colonel Bugs. We have a lot of people upset that their Colonel Bug is not getting top priority, is not getting fixed. And there are things that you can do to help us fix your Colonel Bugs. So, the state of our current Colonel Bugzilla, as of August 1st, there are 702 total open Colonel Bugs. There are three people on the permanent team. That makes it fairly difficult to address every single bug. Obviously, we look at everything as it comes in, but it becomes a question of, well, what is the priority on this? What kind of information is there? How much work am I going to have to do to see if this is even something that's reproducible that can be addressed in a timely manner, things like that? Bugs that come in with no information, things that are just straight up AVRT bugs with no context around them, those types of things. Honestly, if we see them, they go in and they're kind of at the bottom of the queue. We don't pay a lot of attention to them until we have cycles to go back and say, hey, let's get some more information here, things like that. So we would like to get bugs that are easier to fix. And so how can you help us do that? How can you make sure that your bug, your little bug in this massive haystack of bugs, gets fixed? The most important thing is file better bugs. That means you might have to do some work. Yes, AVRT will pop up and say, hey, you've got a Colonel Loops and we'd like to file a bug for you. And it will file a bug for you. There are fields there where you can add more information. Please do. Importantly, see if you can reliably reproduce the problem. If you can reproduce the problem and come down to a small set of steps, that this is what I have to reproduce the problem every time, it makes it much easier for us to fix. Now some problems are not that easy to reproduce. I've seen problems that take two days to reproduce, and even then it wasn't quite reliable. So it's not something you can do every time, but if you can do it and you can include the information on this as how we reproduce this problem, it's going to make it easier for us to find the issue, fix the issue. Another thing to do is see if people are having a similar issue. Google is your friend. There are tons of other distributions that have bug tracking systems of different types. There are several different kind of mailing lists. Chances are if you've hit a bug, unless you have a problem with your hardware, you are probably not the only one who has ever hit that bug. So, a quick Google search, you might find a link to a launchpad entry or a criminal discussion. Okay, I'll discuss things like that. If you can include that information in the bug entry, that gives us a great place to start working. You don't have to be a criminal developer to understand the, there's a discussion happening around that similar bug, and then we can go in and figure out the problem. Or perhaps even better, someone else has already figured out the problem for us and that will be a patch there. The other thing that's really important, because the Fedora kernel moves quickly, is make sure that it's an issue with the most recent kernel. We get a lot of bugs filed on, we're still getting bugs filed on 3.14 for Fedora 21, 4.1.5. That's an even better solution, but sometimes that requires some extra steps, and I actually do mention it in here. We would love for you to try the raw item, and we'll see if it works. That might require configuring other repository things like that, but everybody should at least try the most recent kernel. A lot of code churn happens in the kernel, and the difference between 3.14 and 4.1.5 is massive, so a lot of things get fixed. Unfortunately, there might be some new bugs introduced in there as well, it happens, but if you've not tried the most recent kernel, it's kind of a waste of time to go through and say, is this still a problem? What was the problem in 3.14? Upstream, people don't really care about 3.14 anymore. In fact, 4.0, I think, just had its last stable release, so it's done. Nobody cares about 4.0 anymore. 4.1 is kind of it, and then everybody's working on 4.2. If we are still supporting that, let's say 4.20 before it was in black, we did not push out the rebase there. If there's an issue with 4.0 on 4.20, then yes, we still care about it, whether or not upstream cares. We still care because we're still supporting that kernel, but those are fairly rare instances. Usually, we move along with upstream, again, because there's three of us and lots of bugs. Anything upstream can help us with, we're happy to have. The other thing is include relevant information. AVRT, and a lot of times people filing their own bugs will just, here's the UPS that I got. That's the only information they give. What we would like to know is not only what is the UPS, but what is your D-message output. If this started happening with this particular kernel version, we need to know that. I just ran 4.1.4 and this was not happening, and it started happening with 4.1.5. That narrows it down a whole lot. If it's a device of some sort, PCI device, USB device, we might need the LS-USB output, LS-PCI output. Those things are great to include proactively because when that bug first gets filed, we can look through and say, well, here's a lot of information. We have the UPS, we have a lot of information surrounding it, and we might be able to see the problem right away. If not, at least we know that you are providing information and going to be fairly responsive as far as taking care of that bug. We might ask for more information. Not a non-technical.  We don't. There used to be. Right. And why doesn't it work for that? Right. Well, it does, or it used to, right? It doesn't collect. But they kind of turned it back. Well, because it's always a privacy issue first, if you include too much that it might have something. No, I think that's... Yeah, that's true. Yeah. There used to be a great tool. No, but the ones that it's not true for, we need to know it and turn it back. I mean, there's always an argument. Many people are considering including the hardware and the books and maybe actually all of it. Well, it does an auto file. In Fedora, in Ubuntu, there was one simple tool. It was app-collect or something like this, which you had to run shell, run this tool, give it my number and press enter. It authenticated to a launch bar and added LSTPCI, USB, DMS, every, the default set of stuff. Right. It was even probably sending ACP items. Right. Well, it was just one standard set of old data without giving, without asking user what you have to provide. Well, what is the problem? It's not the problem that way. Yeah. It's just like the data and maybe it's there. Yeah, it's better than that. But isn't there just the assistant phone? Because, anyway, there's often an FKFF assistant phone, which doesn't watch stuff automatically. I'm not sure exactly what it is. But that's part of that face. I thought that was mentioned. Yeah. It will dump some info. I was not aware of that. It would be good to see what it collects. But the other thing that I'd also notice is that it's true. The average user may not know how to do that. But if they come back to us and say, we don't know how to do that, it's pretty easy to be able to tell the assistant director, say, open a terminal and type this command. Right. And I guess the goal is to save up over a terminal. Well, they don't necessarily have to. It depends on who's triaging the bugs. Well, that's where we are triaging the bugs. Nobody else does. We used to have the bug triage page, right? Yeah. So maybe there's a kernel equivalent. We do have a kernel bug triage page that walks you through. It has links to all of the bugzilla queries for untriage bugs. Nobody used it. Every once in a while, we'll get somebody who comes along and does a great job for a week or two, and then they disappear. So, you know, I understand. It's overwhelming. It's not easy. It's a thankless job, except we really, really appreciate it. So thank you when you do that. But we haven't had that in a while. I think last year, somebody did it for a month or so. That was the last result.  Thank you so much. Now go read the triage page. And here's some of the other stuff we need to really look at the bug. We'll input that. I don't know. I wonder again about if there's another opening on the front side. We can change it to just say, by the way, here's where it's better. Right. And that means interaction with that team. I mean, I'm sure they'll listen. They're actually very responsive. They've done a great job in filtering out a lot of the craft and making sure we're not getting bugs filed with, tainted and things like that that are important. That actually is another very important point is if your problem happens and you've got a tainted kernel and a video driver or anything like that, you're going to have to reproduce it without that. Or honestly, we're just not going to look at it. I will say that tainted doesn't mean necessarily what it used to. I mean, there's a tainted flag that says you oops before. Right. Well, so there are multiple taint flags and that's another important one though. The one that says you oops before means your system is in an unknown state. You don't want to know the original loops. You don't grab that last one that has the tainted flag. Go to the original one that's not tainted and that tells you what started the problem. Right. Except a lot of us have machines that just throw an oops and boot just because there's some wrong with the ACPI table and that doesn't necessarily render any further or more useful. So it's a tough thing. That's the engineering problem we can solve. Yes. I mean, that's... See if you find enough copies of this that they grab. There's some contrast there and somebody doesn't split. Yeah, right. I mean, there are plenty of examples of that on the board. I think there's, for example, there's the IONU one that always sends a worm up at, you know, local DMRs. The deck that says your kernel is fine, but it's still worn, which they're bringing to pink lines. Right. Right. I mean, we can link those together by default in Mozilla. I mean, say, this first you file both of these and these are probably causally causal to candidates. Right. And then separate them out based on which parts repeat on other systems. We used to have two. And Dave was really good at it just by looking. And we haven't looked. There are people at Back Parkway that file a ton of bugs. And it was weird. I guess Dave remembered every strange bug and identified this person has filed 18 bugs at the last. And they won't check their hardware like we've asked. So we just kind of need to ignore them because it's bad hardware. And he was really good at that. Several times he would comment that. And people were like, oh, yeah, I replaced my memory and it's all gone away. Some extra helpful items, the things that are going above and beyond just doing a quick Google searching and seeing if other people are having a problem or making sure that we get the relevant information around. If there's discussion upstream about the issue, the Google search will probably help you find it. You'll link it to the bottom. Then that helps us a lot. If it doesn't exist, you can start one. There is a maintainers file in the kernel and we don't actually ship it by default on the system. But I think I should probably just go ahead and add it on the kernel Wiki. This is a link to the maintainers file. So you can go and see who's the maintainer for this subsystem. I know that it's kind of daunting if you are not a kernel developer, not a member of the kernel community to send an email with a bug report. But really, it can be a very simple email to the maintainers list to LKML but not as useful because it's very noisy. Saying, hey, I ran into this problem with this kernel version and as long as it is the most recent stable kernel version of what we're shipping, we'll probably get some good response on it. Yeah, it should at least be interesting. If you send that first email, even if you don't want to continue in the discussion or the discussion goes above your level, you have a link to... This is the email essential list. We can follow in on that discussion as well and hopefully get things happening there. A lot of times, that's what we're going to have to do anyway. We don't have the cycles to go through everything. We don't have the hardware that everybody has. So we're going to have to start the discussion on the stream anyway. And if you've already started it for us, that's a great head start. Yeah, but did you guys not read that? That's true. That's true. I mean, the flame part of it, we can do it pretty well. Yeah, I'm sure we have a user that's probably... Yeah.  Right. So I will say I have not had all the luck. Well, you may or may not have luck, but if the conversation has started, then if somebody replies, then maybe we can jump in as well. And also the upstream mail was tapped pretty quickly. So later when somebody hits that problem, they're going to find that post and say, hey, I must have seen this. Right. It helps a lot. If you do find a patch somewhere, even if you're not sure that it fixes the issue, you think, hey, this patch, you can point that out as well. It's much easier for us to look at it and say, oh, well, no, that patch doesn't fix the issue or yes, that patch looks like it might fix the issue, but it's been superseded by this patch, things like that. We can address that. It's still a huge help if you include them. And if you include a link to a valid patch that definitely fixes the issue or probably looks like it fixes the issue, we're probably going to build you a kernel very quickly, a scratch kernel, and say, test this. And if it works, then it gets into the next release. We're releasing kernels pretty much weekly. So that gets an issue fixed very quickly. If you can tell us the most recent kernel that did not have the issue, that's great. If you installed on 3.14, and for 3.21 you just updated from a fresh install and it jumps to 4.15, there's an issue there. Well, maybe you should go back and check the first 4.1 release we did for it, check the last 4.0 release we did for it. If you can just check those things very quickly and then say, hey, this kernel had it, this one did not, that really helps us narrow it down. And then, as someone else mentioned earlier, if you can test with the raw hide kernel, that is a snapshot of Linux's street daily. Well, almost daily. And so if you can test with that and the issue has gone away, that tells us that it's fixed upstream and makes it a little bit easier for us to first track down where it was fixed and try to get that patch back for it in. And for an issue that's causing a problem for users, we probably also want to get that into the stable tree so that not only do our users receive the fix, but everybody running stable kernel gets the fix. General tips. A little bit of kindness goes a long way. We don't like to see kernel issues any more than you guys like to see kernel issues. I know they're affecting your systems, but we're not sitting there laughing at kernel bugs. We would rather there not be any, and that doesn't mean we would rather you not file any. It means we would rather there actually not be any bugs impacting our users. It's an impossible goal, but we do want to help. Due to volume, a lot of issues do take some time to get to, but if you're nice about it, we are certainly much more likely to get to your issue more quickly than people who are throwing a fit. Why is this not being taken care of? Especially when it's not something that's affecting many users. The reality is if you are one user who has filed a bug, and you get one problem, your sound device or something like that, it's not going to take priority to a bug that 15 people have had to affect including or affecting, especially things like data or things of that nature. And be responsive. When we ask for information, it means we're actually looking at your bug. Right now, I understand email takes a little bit of time. If we ask for more information and if you can respond within a few days, that's great. If you're taking two to three weeks to respond, a lot of times it's going off of our radar again. Plus it's out of date now. Well, sure. That can be the case as well. In two to three weeks, we've probably done two more kernel bumps. Hit and run bug filings are bad for everyone. And there are a lot of bugs that get filed as a, hey, here's this. I ran into this issue and we never hear from the user again. We can ask for it. We can ask it. The only time they ever get closed is when we do the auto, we've done a full rebase. We would like you to test this. Nobody responds within three weeks. They've been sending you need info and then they get closed. And we don't know if it was actually fixed or not. Those types of bugs add to the volume significantly. They add to the noise. And it makes it harder for us to get to other bugs. The time that we spend looking at that bug ends up being wasted time because you're not going to help us fix the bug. You're not going to help us help you. And that doesn't mean that we need you to go and do the code. We just need some information. Please be responsive. Bonus points. If you can find a patch, that is the quickest way to get a bug fixed. I'm not saying you will all the time. In fact, you probably won't a lot of the time. But if you can include one, you get big bonus points for that. It's going to be fixed very quickly. The second is write a test. We've been talking for a couple years now about the test suite that we run. Every kernel gets tested as soon as it's built. For issues that are quick to reproduce, easy to reproduce, it might be worth writing a test. It doesn't require kernel knowledge. There's a link right here on the testing guidelines, but really the testing harness is all in batch. So if you have these commands that can reproduce that problem quickly, then write the test and submit it to the Fedor kernel mailing list. We'll get it included in our test suite, and hopefully make sure that the issue doesn't come back up. So it's not a requirement, and a lot of times we'll look at bugs and say, oh yes, that was quickly reproducible. I can run a test for that really quick. If you do one, that's even better enough. There's a badge for people writing new tests. If not, I've put in a proposal for one. I haven't seen how that fell out. Do you work for new regression suite coaches or are you interested in X86? We are only primary arches right now, except for ARM, and that's because of a lot of hardware, so it's X86. So probably never going to get us any more. No. They could actually... We could find a tiny-ass needle or something like that. Well, actually though, they could run them up. They're pretty well tapped. They could run them up. Another part of the issue with that is, because CoG's not doing those builds directly. Oh, that's right.  I know with FedMessage, we see them now. So I see every time a 390-year power build is done. But it doesn't... Dude, we don't do anything like that. They could easily run the test suite as well. But what we've done on all of those systems, actually all the VMs that are running the test, we just set it as startup. It grabs the latest kernel, runs the test, and then shuts itself back down. So, I mean, it's pretty easy to add to startup an existing system and say, hey, just test every time you do. And those results, even if community runs them, those results still get submitted to our server. We'd see all of it there. Arches. Is it probably data rack in this case? Yeah. But right now, arches don't... I don't think they show up unless they run from our partners. Because we didn't want a bunch of... If people are testing kernels that they're building in those things, I don't think they'll show up. Yeah. Yeah. So, but we can make those visible. I mean, there's really that much that you can actually do an automated test for given that a significant portion of this is going to be completely hardware related. So... There's not a ton. There actually is a mechanism in the harness where you can say, this is a hardware specific test and it checks to see. So, there's three things you can do with the test. You can either execute it successfully, you can skip it or you can fail it. Obviously, you don't want to fail it. But you can say, hey, is this module installed? Do it. Am I running this hardware? Okay. And if I'm running it, then I run this test. And if I'm not, then I skip the test. You can just run the thing on my hardware to... Right. And if it's in the suite then anybody else who has that hardware can also run it. So, there are badges for running the test suite. Which means we get a lot of users actually running the test suite and submitting results. It's great. So, even if it's something that... If it's hardware that we're not going to get an RBM, somebody out there might have it. And it's worth testing. Is there a master Wiki page that links to all of these? Well, there's the... Just the kernel Wiki page has all of the things on it. So, it's got the testing information. It's got the triage information. It's got... Some of it does need to be updated. I actually went to update something this morning. You'll notice there are a couple of other places we need to update. But that'll happen hopefully in the next week. I'm not sure. We're all going to Plumbers next week too. Yeah. Yeah. The word's language. Seattle. Seattle. So, I'm home Monday and then I'm back out Tuesday night. So, you have the summary. It's pretty simple. We've got a ton of kernel bugs. We've got three people. If we have your help, we can get to your bug more quickly. The more information you give us, the more likely we're going to find a fix. And a little bit of work that you do on your end is actually greatly appreciated by us. So, when we fix a bug, if it's your bug, it makes Fedora better for you, but it also makes it better for anybody else who's winning across that same bug. I'm not willing to put forth the effort. We want to make Fedora as good as it can be. So, what do you mean? People use it. Most people do. Yeah. Most people do. Most people are not just saying... First and foremost, most of them may be fine. They can do that, too. So, you mentioned that occasionally somebody pops up out of the community and does triage and then leaves. Yes. So, it sounds like what you need is five or ten people from the community doing triage and then leaving. Well, I mean, if... we had five people who came through and maybe did a half hour a week of peace, that would be massive. So, it's okay from your standpoint for somebody to drive by, do some triage according to the documents that you laid out, and then maybe they got to go back to work the next week, but they did something. Okay, sure. So, why don't we start through this differently? Why don't we get a badge that's one of those level badges series that is, I stuck around doing internal triage as many times. Some of us don't care about the badges. But there are a lot of people who do. It's working pretty well. Okay. And say, you know, you get the first one for showing up an activity day and learning the triage and doing some triage that day. And every release, we have one of those one activity day. And you get a badge for showing up consecutively. That would be kind of awesome. That would actually be really awesome. We could do some of that. So, we have test days that are formally organized from a bidorsional point for all sorts of subsystems. It would be a good idea to throw in a triage day. Particularly, probably a late alpha or very early beta. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, they've got hackfests around here. What do you mean by that? Well, you can do it in the room. Well, you don't have to do it in the room. I mean, you can do it in our studio. Oh, of course, yeah. I'm just saying here, we have a whole conference. You know what I mean? That's true. We do, but there's usually there's a lot more development that happens in the hackfest on Saturday that's really going to require people being in the same room. Yeah, that's true. It's really helped by that. Whereas, I think we would be taking away time from the people who are showing up doing other things. I'm checking the page to see if my questions are answered before I ask. There's a couple issues. I mean, assuming we're of the technical level that we can build our own damn kernels to test things. Right. You run into an issue where the fedora kernel is not vanilla. So you can't really get bisected for one thing. I've actually been working on that. I have a set of scripts that I've sort of been using to be able to bisect for workshop. And I had at least one person do a trial and run and be defined about what he did to work around it and what he did to identify it.  Okay. This is Laura. Yes. This is kernel person three. So is kernel person two here as well? Yes, Josh. He's in the... I know it doesn't really matter if I see what people look like. He'll be doing the stick of the kernel this afternoon, too, which is kind of the talk we do every year. There's no one as well. Oh, yes. We'll be a big investor as well. Yeah. So, let's see. So, you're talking about get bisectability. I have this problem where... I know how to build Fedora packages. So, I'll tweak something in the kernel and then I'll kick off a mock build and wait three hours for the whole kernel package to dump out. Right. I know that the kernel... You can just build source in there without having to go through all the pain in the rear of doing that. But I have no idea how you actually get that installed as a regular kernel so that I can boot into it and then boot back out of it. Right. So, there's actually a great beatme doc in the kernel source that kind of goes through... You can also take a shell script in the package directory that runs the rpm-bd-without-without-without. Oh, right, right. And that makes the smallest one to be a little faster. That's true. Yeah. I mean, I don't even need an RPM if I know that it's going to show up in the grug menu after I finish and make it install. Right. But I have no idea if it actually does that. There's actually a script that should work. Okay. So, once you copy the kernel to boot and then you make it install... Yeah. What? Yeah. What I'm wondering is, I don't know if we've patched to make install to work correctly with everything being in user now and I don't know if new kernel script requires it to work. So, it's working for me on f23. I haven't tried f23 or raw. Well, f23 or raw it should work. It's the question, right? No, it's f21 that's the question. Okay. But it's working for you on f23 and raw. Yeah. That's enough, yeah. Right. So, it's probably the last thing that you've done on that. Right. It's also kind of annoying that we have to copy it to do that when you're clearly doing a quick thing there. But... Yeah. I've heard of a team not that good. The worst veterans have questions that capture some of the stuff somewhere so that you're not experiencing this. Yeah. Right. And that's what this page is for. I want to make sure that... Yeah. There is a deal, so... There's a lot we shouldn't do there, probably. Because right now, like, if you've done that, you've got this kernel sitting inside forever and it's in your revenue forever. And we don't really have a way to say, hey, I'm installing test kernel. Now I'm done with that test kernel in that kind of phrase, I think. There is a way to... Which we could write relatively easily. We could. There's also a pretty simple way to do an argument build. It's just a quicker build. Yeah. So if you tell it you don't want the debug, you don't want... I mean, that's a lot of it. Yeah. So if you're making a release kernel, you're also building a debug kernel. Right. Yeah. And that takes a long time. It does. So I'll just... There's something else going on here. This conversation seems to be both on... both are clued with kernel bugs. Right. Yeah. You know, I'm seeing a bug of an X that started with 3.18. Right. And I... Well... I try every kernel and I... oops, it happens again. Right. Like a week, I go back to 3.16. Yeah. And it's stable. Okay, so that's... That's a... Yeah, that's another bug. How do I know who's faulted it? I've added my 2 cents to the bugzilla... Right. ...to the board. I've added my 2 cents to the free desktop one. And I think it's kind of getting... the bug is kind of getting lost because everybody's saying... Right. ...my problem. Well, so the... Most of the X bits are... I mean, a lot of it is kernel now. So it's... It's... Usually the same people were looking at both sides of it. And so it's okay to file a bug as kernel now. Well, for... Actually, from a Trios Jam point, when a bug is filed against kernel and it's in DRM, it actually gets refiled against the X component anyway because that's how our graphics guys want it. Okay. So it would be... It would be refiled against, you know, an M15 or Radeon or whatever, and the appropriate maintenance will take a look at that there. That's the method that they... Okay. They can't really put it in the wrong place. Yeah. The lesson here is do whatever seems right. It'll get right. Okay. Well, the problem is you're talking about, you know, we can't do the Trios, which means we can't because there's not enough cycles. So we can't necessarily make sure the bug gets redirected because nobody has a chance to look at it. Right.  So there's... The Trios page includes some of that information. No, does it? Yeah. I guess I'll... It walks through a lot of that. So how are you guys finding ABRT, right? Is that helpful? Is it helping you figure out how to prioritize which bugs you're looking for? Well, with the retrace changes that have been made recently, it's gotten a lot better, and Laura's been doing some work as well, too. I did some work on there, but still on the daily basis, I'd probably say in terms of notifications, there's still a lot of noise. I think specifically ABRT gave still this notification for very old kernels. So, for example, like the point about 3.14, we took a notification for that, for at least not a daily basis about, you know, this is 10 and it's 100, which still happens. And then it's still... The other thing I found is that ABRT, it's still... Unfortunately, it only gives a back trace since it's harder than hard to deal with the rest of the kernel DNS unless someone actually files a bug. So if they just have a ABRT report, then they only give a back trace, which there's a few of them where it's just a little bit more information that could actually be given on how much harder to deal with how it is. So it's a step in the right direction, but I still found it to be very hard to sort through to figure out what is actually doing something. I think it gives me that ABRT is still passive. So if someone is actually taking an initiative to file a bug, then it's still more likely that we're going to need to take a look at it. So, yeah. So, can you guys do... Well, just a few months from now, I was working for you and I don't really touch it anymore. I'm not a big fan of you. I'm still very familiar with code and I really can't help you. But I believe the guys... Because we always are longing for a question from you, like from Chrome people because you are the only two group that were able to specify their request rule. And for the first time, that idea that Chrome... because every year, Josh, he was talking about that. He was saying he's not touching none of your requests. We have impression that your request hasn't worked. We are much happier than... It sounds like what you're saying. It's just giving us a little bit more. It's telling the theme of the solution. And that answers what we're doing. It's really good. But I think it's still sort of a... There's definitely more work to be done. I think it's definitely helpful to at least get somebody to focus on it. I mean, it's sort of probably a comfort wise. I'm probably saying that I don't remember a couple of things that I've actually found that have actually been really good in effect to being able to point to God. Well, isn't that accurate? So it's okay. This looks like a pretty obvious thing for... Oh, I saw a picture somewhere else. It's helpful when it's all day, but I probably say it's less a problem with AVRT probably before the audience or the kind of bug in general that this is a problem. Well, I mean, the biggest problem that I think we have with AVRT is not actually an AVRT problem. It's just a... Because of the way that it pops up, people file bugs and they click to say file the bug and have AVRT file the bug and it seems just assumed they're done. So we get a lot of bugs or AVRT file bugs that they file and then walk away and we never hear anything from them again. You ask for more information, you don't get there. Would you classify that as better than nothing or you wish it would be better if people just didn't file them at all? That's actually a really tough call. Sometimes... It depends on the bug. There's some of them that are, in fact, pretty self-contained. You can tell exactly what's going on, but the problem is that it's sort of a... obscure... If it's something like if it's specified warning, then you can do it, Michelle, but it's just like a random general protection call. It's a lot of trouble then. It's also sometimes helpful when you have somebody who does actually file the bug and then you've got all these other AVRT reports that they're hit and runs, but there are a lot of people hitting this problem and I do have somebody who's responsive and going to help me fix it now. So they're useful a lot of the time and then a lot of times you do get the... It was a one-off, it'll never happen again. You've got this bug file, they're not responsive about it, so it's just noise, but I don't know that you can... I don't know a way to effectively get rid of that noise without getting into the file. Well, somebody just has to go and say, look, we asked for info, it's been a month, it's been a month, something like that. Part of that is something that we need to work on a different scale than talking about the kernel bugs. What I hear you saying is we give an user a mechanism wherein they can report that a fault has happened without becoming involved in reporting the product. Well, I mean... And now they're not responding, because they're not involved. But doesn't a lot of that not go to Bugzilla now? Does the BBRT just collect the stuff or isolate it? Yeah, retrace it. And that retraces... getting much better for us. We're just going to masculade you to the point where it's in the way as much. That doesn't increase the incidence of solving the user's problem. That decreases. You think so? Not necessarily the number of things you're addressing is low. Okay. The 3-House page is relatively complete. I was going to add, but Bugzilla links are so... Where is the 22? If you go back and see... It's right on there. It's the very top of the page. Okay. I'm looking at the link. I'm just trying to figure out... Yeah, here, not actually doing the source, but I'm saying go back and actually view it normally without the source. I'm just trying to add the f23 link, because it's not there right now. Right. So that was what I was saying part of what was out of date. The f23 stuff needs to be added. I was just going to edit it in right now if I could figure out... Even better.


The next item of business is a statement by Angus Robertson on Europe Day 2023, the Scottish Government's commitment to remain aligned with EU laws. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, and so there should be no interventions or interruptions. I call on Angus Robertson up to 10 minutes, cabinet secretary. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. May I begin by wishing you and everybody else a very happy Europe Day, and I'm delighted that we're joined by a number of consuls general from European Union member states today. Europe Day is a day that celebrates peace and it celebrates unity in Europe, and it marks the day in 1950 when Robert Shuman presented his proposal for placing French and West German coal and steel production under a single authority. This, of course, set our European neighbours and ourselves on a path to peace and co-operation and led to the creation of what became the European Union. Events over the last 15 months on Russia's barbaric invasion of Ukraine have reminded us again why that peace and that co-operation is so precious. So today I wish to make a statement on why and how the Scottish Government is endeavouring to remain as close to the European Union as possible and how we will ensure that this Parliament can properly scrutinise that endeavour. In doing so, I hope it will become clear why it is so important for Scotland to escape the damage of Brexit and to regain the rights and the responsibilities of full independent European Union membership. The first reason is democracy. People in Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union. There were majorities for remain in every single local authority area in the country. When Boris Johnson set out his so-called oven-ready Brexit deal to people in Scotland, the people of this country massively rejected it. Despite that clear democratic expression on Brexit and Boris Johnson's hard Brexit, it has been imposed on us. The Labour Party now, sadly, for what can only be misguided electoral reasons, supports both Brexit and supports hard Tory Brexit, which has taken Scotland out of the single market—a market that, by population, is seven times the size of the UK and has taken us out of the customs union. On this generational democratic disaster for Scotland, a conspiracy of silence exists between Labour and the Tories, and that silence signifies broad agreement on Brexit policy between the Westminster parties. That brings me to the second reason why alignment with the European Union, where possible and appropriate under the current constitutional arrangements, is so important and why membership should be our goal. That reason is the damage this Westminster agreed hard Brexit is doing to Scotland. The OBR estimates that, in the long run, compared with EU membership, Brexit will reduce the UK's national output and productivity by 4 per cent. The director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies says, what does this mean? In the long run, we will be about that much worse off on average, so people on average sorts of earnings might be £1,000 to £1,500 worse off before tax than they would have been otherwise. Of course, it also means less money for public services like health and education, which is what he said. Brexit is added to the cost of living crisis by pushing up food prices. It has reduced opportunities for young people with the loss of freedom of movement in the Erasmus Exchange programme. It has meant broken promises to our fishing communities with fewer fishing opportunities for some key stops compared with the common fisheries policy. It has hurt our creative sector and our touring musicians. The Brexit damage goes on and on, which makes the Labour Tory conspiracy of silence on Brexit ever more baffling. Presiding Officer, the EU, however, is not just about tangible benefits, important though those are. It is a values-based project. The core values of the EU on human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law, respect for human rights are also Scotland's values. The third reason for an alignment policy is that we want to remain close to and be part of a European Union of shared values. The fourth reason we want to remain aligned with Europe is because we recognise that the global challenges facing Scotland today from climate, the cost of living, energy costs to delivering a fairer society only confirm the need for ever more international co-operation and engagement, not less. For those reasons, the Scottish Government policy is to continue to align with the EU where we can. However, in pursuing this alignment policy, I acknowledge the constitution, Europe and external affairs and culture committee's concerns regarding scope, engagement and transparency and I understand the Parliament's desire for greater information to support scrutiny of our approach. This week, I wrote to the convener acknowledging those concerns and reaffirming our commitment that we will provide significantly more information on how that policy is being pursued. We will closely monitor the European Commission's proposals and consider where we can align in a meaningful manner with policy that will protect standards of our people's wellbeing. The immediate benefit of this is self-evident. Last year, we brought forward our first legislation under the continuity act 2021 to ensure that Scotland continue to align with the best international standards in terms of the water that we drink. In 2022, we brought into force regulations to ban certain single-use plastics in support of our commitment to circular economy. Those are important powers. We will rely on more in future, but alignment is not just about regulations, laws and standards, it is about much, much more than that. The EU's priorities map across our own ambitions and plans has set out in the national performance framework and the First Minister's vision and priorities for Scotland published last month. In particular, the commission's commitment to accelerate the green transition and its approach to digital economy closely aligns with Scotland's ambitions for fair and just transition to a digital net zero wellbeing economy and society. Our hydrogen action plan, our draft energy strategy and the just transition plan all propose actions to deliver a flourishing net zero energy system that supplies affordable, resilient and clean energy to Scotland's workers, householders, communities and businesses. Hydrogen produced in Scotland could play a significant role in supporting EU plans to scale up that energy source. We will press for co-operation with the European Commission to facilitate the smooth international trade of hydrogen and renewable energy sources. That is alignment in action. Unfortunately, by contrast, the hard Brexit that the UK Government pursued has uncoupled energy co-operation. The UK's pursuit of post-Brexit legislation, often in the absence of consent from the Scottish Parliament, has undoubtedly created significant challenges for both the Scottish Government and the Parliament, with the responsibilities and competences of each being either ignored or overridden. Let me put on record that I am committed to working closely with the Parliament and the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee specifically to respond to those challenges robustly and ensure that Parliament is able to fulfil its role of holding government to account. Westminster's deliberate attempts to ignore the devolution settlement as it ushers in its divergent and deregulatory agenda is at odds with the high standard that Scotland shares with the EU and should be a concern for all of us in this Parliament. That inevitably means that the focus of the Scottish Government's alignment policy efforts in the months ahead will be primarily on preventing important standards and protections being undermined by the loss of retained EU law provisions. Every such law safeguarded is an example of alignment in practice. The difficult reality is that a Scotland cannot, while part of the UK—that is not part of the EU—ensure alignment with the EU in all cases. We must align where we can and where that alignment is meaningful but, first and foremost, we must protect Scottish legislation from the UK Government's retained EU law bill, which is creating significant uncertainties for our country during an on-going economic crisis. We will always seek to work constructively with the UK Government because we value co-operation as a matter of principle. However, where the UK Government seeks to undermine the basis of co-operation, such as agreed rules on exemptions to the internal market act, we will challenge that robustly. The Scottish Government will keep fighting for the values and standards that we hold dear, a Europe that is green and prosperous, united and diverse, a Europe that, above all, stands for co-operation and stands for peace. That is what Robert Schuman stood for, that is what Europe Day represents and what the EU project is, an ideal that Scotland continues to support and believes in to which we will return. Thank you. The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. I would be grateful if members who wish to put a question were to press their request-to-speak buttons now. I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of his statement. Of course, we whole-heartedly support Europe Day 2023, a day to celebrate peace and unity throughout Europe. Indeed, we are united in our support for Ukraine as the Russian invasion continues into its second year. Europe Day was, of course, first celebrated by the Council of Europe, and the United Kingdom is a founding member of the Council of Europe and, of course, remains one. In his statement, the cabinet secretary set out the Government's commitment to remain aligned with EU laws. However, the reality of how this policy has been implemented tells its own story. After all the fire and brimstone that we heard from Mike Russell, his predecessor during the passage of this legislation in this very chamber, how many times has the Scottish Government used the formal keeping-pace power since 2021, just once, a perfect example of the SNP virtually virtue signalling over proper policy-making. However, in truth, the Scottish Government has chosen to not align with the EU on a wide variety of issues. We welcome this bespoke Scottish approach, but why on earth does the Government keep up this facade of alignment? Will the cabinet secretary now listen to the warnings of many in rural Scotland who have said that full alignment with the EU would be devastating? Will the Government commit to only adopting laws that suit Scotland best while remaining aligned with our largest trading partner, the rest of the UK? Can I start off with words of agreement? I think that it is great to hear from the Conservative benches that they also recognise today is Europe Day that they welcomed that, that they think that that is worthy of being marked. It is also helpful to hear the important genesis of European institutions emanating from the Council of Europe. For those of the non-initiates, and I know that the honourable and learned gentleman opposite being a lawyer to trade understands the importance of the human rights aspect that the Council of Europe has brought to the standards right across our continent, not just within the European Union, and I think underlines the reason how bad it would be whether to be any stepping back from our shared human rights standards across our continent. I think that the only countries that have resiled from European standards in the Council of Europe are the Russian Federation and Belarus, and we certainly should not be following that example. On the issue of different ways in which one can remain aligned with European legislation, I think that Donald Cameron chose to concentrate on one route in which one can remain aligned. Of course, there are a number of ways and different ways of doing that. I think that it is fair to say that it is important that our committee structure should be able to best understand why using this legislation or not using that legislation, why doing it in different ways. That is why the Scottish Government is updating its approach, particularly in the context of the retained EU law situation, because I think that it is absolutely right for parliamentarians right across Parliament to have the best information to hand to hold government to account on those matters. He knows that I spent 10 years on the European scrutiny committee in the House of Commons, so it is a matter that lies close to my heart. I have given the committee the undertaking that I want that to be as meaningful and workable as possible. I give that commitment again in the chamber. I am not entirely sure whether he meant to say that, but I very much welcome Donald Cameron saying that he welcomes the bespoke approach of the Scottish Government, and I do too. Neil Bibby. I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of his statement. Scottish Labour welcomes Europe Day 2023. We agree that the Tories have made a mess of Brexit, and I would urge Conservative MSPs to lobby their Government not to make matters worse with the EU retained law bill. The SNP has been said that it has a commitment to align with EU law, but, like so many other areas, its rhetoric does not match its record. Mr Robertson has also not always supported EU treaties either. In fact, he previously described the Lisbon treaty as completely and utterly unacceptable. So what is the Government's criteria for lining or not with EU law now, and how widely will they consult on their approach? The cabinet secretary also mentions Erasmus, but why are Scottish students still waiting for a replacement programme when Labour has created one in Wales? Finally, maybe Angus Robertson should have indulged his own conspiracy of silence—the Lisbon treaty 2014, the Erasmus failure. The Tories have made a mess. Only a UK Labour Government can clean it up. Perhaps it's time for the SNP to accept their relevance and get out of the way. Cabinet secretary. Can I begin by welcoming Neil Bibby to his new position? I look forward to working with him constructively where we can. It's a shame that we don't have a lot of clarity from his question about where Scottish Labour is on the position on European alignment. I, growing up, grew up with a Scottish Labour party with names like Bruce Milanoff, a European commissioner of David Martin, a vice-president European Parliament of Janey Buckan, a long-standing MEP in the European Parliament. It's not the same party that we are hearing today—indeed, not the same party questioning what the Scottish Government is doing. It's no welcome for the target of remaining aligned with the European Union, and the chimera, the imaginary situation that the Labour Party is going to clear up the Tories' Brexit mess by sticking with the same policy. It's absolutely inconceivable that there will be any difference whatsoever. Notwithstanding the fact that Anna Sarwar has described Brexit as an economic disaster, the Labour Party is going to continue with it. A party led by Keir Starmie saying that it's not going to reconsider the UK's position within the European Union, it's not going to reconsider the United Kingdom's position in the single market and it's not going to reconsider the disaster, the ending of free movement of people. Labour really must do much better. It should embrace the policies and approach of the past and not ape the Tories, as they've done, sadly, again today. A recent British Council report, Soft Power, today found that countries that invest in overseas cultural institutes see significant returns. Meanwhile, its report gauging international perceptions. Scotland and Soft Power found Scottish Soft Power to be in a competitive position, but noted that the challenges of Brexit will require Scotland to have a clearly articulated narrative on its place in the world. A recent committee report from a constitution at the European External Affairs and Culture Committee praised the work of the international offices and indeed the British Council said that it would welcome more to spread Scotland's presence throughout Europe and throughout the world. On this European day, does the cabinet secretary recognise the vital work of going forward as we seek to maintain our relationship with Europe and to align with it? First of all, I take the opportunity of saying a huge thank you to everybody that works in Europe House in Brussels. The representational office of Scotland in the capital of the European Union won, I think, the office of which was initiated under the Scottish Conservatives, opened under the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats and, of course, continues to operate to this day. They do hugely positive work, yes, in relation to the multilateral organisations, primarily the European Union based in Brussels, but also in bilateral relations with the government of Belgium. The address for those who do not know of the Scottish Government office in Brussels is on Shuman Avenue itself, so there is a nice circularity in our proceedings this afternoon about all of that. In terms of the challenge that Brexit has brought in particular on the cultural front, this is something that is regularly raised by culture and arts scene about the great difficulty that those of our artists who wish to tour can undertake elsewhere in Europe. We continue to press the UK Government to seek changes, but the European Union has made absolutely clear to have free movement of people, so our cultural and artistic community can travel and perform across Europe is something that is only possible if one accepts free movement of people. The UK Government is not prepared to do that. We will continue to press for that. In the meantime, the likes of Scotland House in Brussels will not only be working on optimal relations with the European Union, but will also host a wide range of cultural events as well. The cabinet secretary talks about how Brexit has reduced opportunities for young people with the loss of freedom of movement in the Erasmus exchange programme, but, while the UK Government has introduced a successful touring scheme in 2021 with funding of £110 million for 2022-23, the Scottish Government has so far failed to provide any detail of their promise to develop a new strategy for international education. When will the Scottish Government provide us with the details for their replacement scheme? First, I am really interested to hear that the touring scheme is successful, because on any objective measure when compared with the Erasmus programme it is absolutely not a success story. It is a great shame that our young people are forced to operate through a scheme that is not as successful as it replaced. I would love to see Scotland join the Erasmus scheme fully as a member state. That is the only way we can do it. Maybe a good reason for Sharon Dowey to reconsider our position and embrace Scotland's future membership of the European Union. Fighting crime is an example of where co-operation among EU states has proved particularly successful. The UK withdrawal from Europe has left a woefully complicated security landscape, and I am in no doubt risk Scotland's justice system being left behind, as our European counterparts develop more effective tools to deal with present and future threats, including serious and organised crime, cyber threat and terrorism. I ask the cabinet secretary if he can outline what engagement he has had with the UK Government to ensure any changes to EU retained law do not risk not only Scotland's future security, but also our operational effectiveness in tackling crime, in particular cross-border crime. Cabinet Secretary? The first thing is that there is no effective substitute for being part of the European institutions that deal with judicial and legal co-operation. I am pleased to say that the Lord Advocate and other colleagues in our legal service attend those events that they are able to to try and find ways in which our legal system is able to maintain the highest level of judicial co-operation, but in a very imperfect environment. In relation specifically to the issue of retained EU law, I would like to update the chamber in as much as we believe that there is a fast-moving situation at Westminster where the UK Government is performing a U-turn as we speak on that bill, which would be hugely welcome. I understand that, potentially, we may even see a new schedule published in Westminster as soon as tomorrow on the issue. I have to say that, just for the record at this stage, has there been any consultation with the Scottish Government on this? No, there hasn't. Has there been any consent issued by the Scottish Parliament on this? No, there has not. Do we know what the territorial extent of the bill in its new terms might be? No, we don't know that either. If we are going to see a UK Government U-turn on the European Union retained EU law bill, which was literally throwing the baby out with the bath water and seeing if we could save different bits of EU law, if they are now going to change that into a system where they will legislate to get rid of things, that is certainly a much better way of doing things, and we will work with the UK Government as soon as we have details from them. In a written submission for the conference on the future of Europe, the Scottish Government outlined that, and I quote, Scotland will maintain alignment where possible and practical with EU legislation, standards, policies and programmes. It is also previously outlined plans to implement a Scottish educational exchange programme which would aim to replace the Erasmus programme. Since then, there has been no progress made towards this. Instead, the Scottish Government continue to deflect any questions about the Erasmus programme. The mention of the Erasmus Plus programmes only briefly in the ministerial statement pinpoints exactly how much of a priority it is for the Scottish Government. The Welsh Labour Government have now implemented the scheme intended to replace Erasmus. This has since lined up over 5,000 exchange opportunities since September 2022. There is no reason as to why the Scottish Government have not already delivered a similar scheme for young people in Scotland. So, when will the minister stop hiding behind the arguments for independence and act now to truly realise Scottish priorities with EU practice to provide Scottish students with the Erasmus programme? I think to be fair, but maybe Faisal Choudhury didn't have time to get to the important fact and nub of the matter. Originally, we all remember that there was a commitment given to seeing the re-nationalisation of everything that was carried out at a European Union level. Those things relating to devolved matters would see the repatriation of not just powers but also budget. That is not what happened. We have not seen a repatriation of budget that would have gone towards the Erasmus scheme. He is absolutely right. Work is in progress on how to have what can only be a second best scheme, because the best scheme is an Erasmus plus scheme. Faisal Choudhury has any ideas about which bits of the education budget currently spent in Scotland he wishes to see cut to pay for a new programme. I will listen very closely to what the Labour Party is advocating. Emma Harper to be followed by Willie Rennie. Scotland benefits from EU alignment in many areas, but with Brexit we find ourselves cut off from EU structural funds that helped our communities to flourish for decades, not to mention the major 800 billion euros of next generation EU pandemic recovery programme. That is completely bypassed, Brexit, Britain and massive barriers to European trade also. While Scotland remains outside the single market, how does the cabinet secretary hope to maximise investment from our European partners? The first thing is that we should commend the extraordinary successes of Scottish Development International that do so much to ensure that Scotland is still in the circumstances of Brexit, Britain, as an attractive place that it can be under those circumstances. I am right in saying that Scotland remains the second most successful part of the United Kingdom after London when it comes to inward investment. SDI internationally has very talented and hardworking members of staff right across Europe, and there are a number of Scottish Government officers across the European Union, in Paris, in Brussels, in Berlin, in Copenhagen. They all do a tremendous job in promoting Scotland, yes, when it comes to inward investment, yes, the potential when it comes to jobs, yes, when it comes to building on tremendous new opportunities that we have here, such as the renewable sector, but, yes, on areas where education, co-operation matters a lot and the soft power and cultural dimension of things. All of that is really, really good, and I am hugely grateful to everybody that does those jobs, but we cannot look by the reality that Brexit is a massively damaging phenomenon, socially, economically and politically, and that is why it is absolutely right that we do everything that we can to remain as aligned with the European Union as we can possibly be, and it would be great if the other political parties in this chamber embraced that fully as they should. I would like to get in all members who have expressed an interest this afternoon, and I would be grateful for shorter questions and responses, and I call Willie Rennie to be followed by Co-Cab Stewart. I do not understand why the ministers wriggling so much on Erasmus, and this was a manifestal commitment in 2021. Wales has done it already. They have had it for one year, they are about to go into the second year, but there is no sign of a plan from Scotland. Why have we not got it? He has got the powers, he could do what Wales has got, why is he not getting on with it? One of the real challenges that exist as a result of Brexit relates to the free movement of people, and that includes the ability to live and study in other countries. If he would make the effort and speak to colleagues in Wales, he would understand that, where they have set up their own scheme, they are suffering with the impact of the UK's relationship with the European Union in terms of the free movement of people. That issue is not simply about having a scheme, it is not simply about finding resources, it is also about a situation where, whether it is workable or not, given the circumstances of Brexit—I give Willie Rennie full marks for his consistency in asking questions about the subject—it would make his argument a little bit more powerful if he made the effort to learn about the difficulties in setting up different schemes, operating within the Brexit system that the United Kingdom finds itself in. The day-to-day impacts of Brexit are being felt across many industries. GMAC film, an organisation that trains budding filmmakers from all backgrounds, based on my constituency of Glasgow Kelvin, has explained to me first hand its account of how difficult post-Brexit bureaucracy has made working across Europe. Glasgow and Scotland, more widely, is proudly internationalist. Does the minister agree that, while we do everything in our Parliament's ability to remain aligned with the EU, the only way to ensure that we don't continue down the path of this isolationist UK Government is through full EU membership as an independent nation? A majority in this Parliament also believes that to be the case. Can I take the opportunity to put on record my huge positive impression of GMAC in COCAB's constituency? It does an absolute power of work in our contributing to the great success of Scotland's film and TV sector. The success of that sector would be significantly improved were free movement of people restored in Scotland. The only way that that's going to happen is with Scottish membership of the European Union. Membership of the European Union is not being offered either by the Conservative party, nor the Labour party, nor for the Liberal Democrats, who now say that they are not a rejoined party. If anybody has any aspirations for Scotland being in the European Union, it's not going to happen through the United Kingdom, it's going to happen through Scottish membership of the European Union. It's just a simple statement of fact. Maurice Golden to be followed by Mark Ruskell. Thank you, Presiding Officer. The EU has set a target of separately collecting 77% of plastic bottles by 2025 and 90% by 2029. Given this statement and previous commitments, the Scottish Government will match this. However, the Scottish Government have failed on a series of environmental targets the 2013 household recycling target, seven out of 11 emissions targets and are on their third delay of the deposit return scheme. Does the cabinet secretary accept that environmental EU alignment promises from this Government are worthless? Cabinet secretary. No, I don't, but I go back to the central point about which the statement today was given, Presiding Officer, which is about making sure that the Scottish Government's alignment with the European Union is legislation and its aspiration can be interrogated. I know Maurice Golden from my frequent attendances at the committee that he is a member of. These are exactly the kind of questions that he will ask, and he is right to do so. I am confident that, given what I think will be an enhanced level of information that committee members will get about Scotland's alignment with the European Union will be beneficial for scrutiny and will help Maurice Golden to continue with the scrutiny role that he performs with some distinction in the committee. Mark Ruskell to be followed by Fiona Hyslop. The Tory retained EU law bill is not just a failure of statecraft, it is an attempt to systematically dismantle the state with it the protections and rights that Britain helped to create during our decades as members of the European Union. Although there are welcome signs that the UK Government may be forced to weaken its approach to throwing EU laws over the cliff edge in December, can I ask if there are particular portfolios where the threat of a race to the bottom in standards still hangs over Scotland? We need to remain alive to all possibilities, and across Scottish Government there is a lot of effort going into the retained EU law bill continuing as it is currently proposed. That is that there would be a sunset that unless we found ways to retain that EU law in in Scots law and we have to understand the complication that some of this is shared sovereignty, those are all the contributing facts why this is such an unworkable and unacceptable way to deal with legislation that is so important, whether one likes individual pieces of legislation or not. That is why the potential change that we might hear more about as soon as tomorrow, but certainly in the weeks ahead, I think, is going to signal a change. The UK Government is going to put the horse before the cart, to be honest, which is to seek to get rid of laws that are named rather than getting rid of everything and having to do it the other way round. If that is the way that things are going to proceed, I think that that is a lot more workable. It is something that the Scottish Government called for the UK Government to do before it drove a coach and horses through the Sewell convention again. Hopefully, common sense can prevail and the UK Government does indeed go through the U-turn on this, which would be hugely welcome. Fiona Hyslop. One of the most important areas for alignment with the EU is on environmental law for food and other exports currently as well as for tackling the biodiversity crisis issues. Can the cabinet secretary give more details on his approach to environmental law as currently the sheer volume of environmental regulations would fall to the net zero energy and transport committee for scrutiny? Does he agree that for Scotland to become an independent member of the European Union, Scotland's approach in this area of alignment will be key, as well as in the interests of our own environmental standards? I think that Fiona Hyslop, given her long experience in this portfolio, absolutely hits the nail on the head, which is why anything that would see the change in retained EU law approach of the UK Government is absolutely key. I think that most people in the chamber or watching are aware that the most numerous parts of European legislation are in the fields of rural affairs of agriculture and fisheries and also in terms of the environment. All of these areas really matter to consumers, amongst everybody else, that we can retain the highest possible standards. A really good start would be to try and make sure that we do not fall off the retained EU law cliff edge and in terms of going forward that we have an improved reporting structure vis-à-vis the committees and members of this Parliament in terms of how we remain aligned. That is exactly what the Scottish Government is proposing to do. Given the devastating warning from the Institute of Government about the damage that could be done by the passage of the EU retained law to the process of parliamentary scrutiny and parliamentary democracy, to the administrative exercise of power and to the power grab that would be represented by United Kingdom Government ministers by its passage, has the cabinet secretary sought the agreement of all political parties in this chamber to make representations to the United Kingdom Government that they should not proceed as planned? If he has not done so, will he do that as a matter of urgency and will he secure the agreement to protect this Parliament from the recklessness of the EU retained law bill? Can I welcome John Swinney to his place in asking me the question that he just did? There is a bit of me that wishes he was able to ask that question right at the start, because we may have had some contributions from the Conservative and the Labour benches to find out whether they would join the Scottish Government in this. I am hearing from a sedentary position from Neil Bibby that he will. I am looking towards the Conservative benches whether there is any form of acknowledgement that they might do. I am not really seeing any. Maybe it is going to take another statement or question so that we can find out whether the Conservative Party in the Scottish Parliament will support the Conservative Party in the UK Government in U-turning on the retained EU law bill. That would be extremely sensible. Unfortunately, they did not take the opportunity to make that clear earlier today.