It's so hard for me to talk to people about it because it's one of those things where unless you experience it, you don't understand, and that's where I come in as a photographer. I try and let the people that don't get the opportunity to experience the natural world to experience it. I've been able to go canoeing in the Great Sambizi River in Zimbabwe, and I've come face to face with elephants while doing so. I've gone hiking with the Samburu people in Kenya, which has been one of my favorite experiences in my whole life. And I've also been able to cable course across the border between South Africa and Botswana with crocodiles swimming underneath me. I've also been able to experience the true beauty found in the Ngorogoro crater in Tanzania, which is my favorite place in the entire world. Now since the name of the talk is called Close Encounters, I thought it would only be right if I shared some of my close encounters with you. And with this picture in particular, it was often a morning game drive. I wanted to try out macro lens for the first time, and for those of you that might not know, it's to take pictures of small insects or very up close things, so for example, people's eyes if you've seen any of the pictures on that. So with regards to taking this picture, it was one of those things where I went to go get my camera to go and try out, see what I could take pictures of because it's insects. They're everywhere. And that's when I saw this orange blur run past me. I wasn't sure what it was at the beginning, but then after I got my camera and went after it, a solifuge, which is what this creature's name is, started chasing me because they chase after people's shadows. So it's quite an experience. After chasing after me and me running away, I eventually found out that if I stayed still and lie down, it would come up to me and I could get the photo that I wanted. So with this, I got the photo and as it came closer, because I left the court up to it, it fled its pincers in almost a type of getaway from me, which I did. But I got the photo. I wanted to show what it's like to be on the praise perspective on this type of picture. So after this, I looked at the picture on the LCD, which is the camera screen. And I realized when I looked up, it was gone. And that's when I felt something crawling up my leg. So as you can imagine, I was glad I was wearing khaki that day. Needed to change your pants off to it. But that's just one of my experiences. Another one, which I like to talk to about, is the time I was charged by a leopard. Tortoise. So with this, starting in particular, we went to a place called Machati Game Reserve, which is where I do a lot of my photography as I've been going there for two months for the last eight years. And I wanted to go into one of my favorite hills in the area to experience the sunset and to talk about what we had seen with my family. With this, starting in particular, I saw a rock. And I thought, whatever, it's just a rock. It's so rocky in the area that I paid no attention to it. But then as the day went on, we started talking, the sun was setting. I realized that the rock had moved. And that's when I thought, you know what, let me go and find out what's going on. So I walked up and tried to investigate. And that's when I saw the leopard tortoise. So immediately I ran to go get my camera to capture the last rays of the setting sun. And I've got the picture that you see behind me now. To get this, though, it's not a nice story. I had to go crawling around all over the rocks and stuff and ended up going on top of a thorn bush to get this photo. But it was all worth it because even though I had a whole bunch of cuts and I was impaled one or two times, I got the shots I wanted. So that's how all that matters. Now I've talked to you about the smaller creatures that I've been able to have encounters with. But I've also had encounters with equally as large creatures, like the elephants and the lions. And the reason I brought up the whole point of talking about the smaller creatures is a lot of people don't pay attention to them. And it's one of the most important things I've found that people should say have a bit of focus on them. Because the one thing with photography, you don't need to go to Africa to go and take photos. You can go into your back garden. There's always something you can do. But carrying on with my story, with this photo in particular, I came face to face with the crocodile. We drifted down the river in the Okavango Delta. And I managed to get this shot. And although it seems really close, I was closer.  And I've also been in such a close proximity to two big bulls fighting over a female that I couldn't actually take photos of them anymore because it was too close. I couldn't focus. With all that being said, I think it's only right to begin from the really beginning. And with that being said, this is my story. From the day I was born, nature and wildlife photography had always been a big part of my life. As my parents were always involved with wildlife photography and were very passionate about the bush. As far back as I can remember, I was going to our local game reserves and taking photos of everything. And I'll always remember asking my dad if I could borrow his camera. See, and you'll always reluctantly respond with, okay, but don't drop it. Because if you do, we're going to feed you to the lions. So as such, I'd make sure that no matter what, I wouldn't drop his camera. During this journey of learning how to get into this photography and what photography really was because I was always fascinated with what my dad could do with the camera and take what we saw in front of us and put it into a little screen. I eventually, after whining and whining for seven years, got my very first camera and which I like to call the pocket rocket. So the pocket rocket, I actually brought it here today, was the first camera that I ever owned. It's exclusive to me and it was something that I took everywhere. I remember going to our local game reserves and taking pictures of everything. And when I mean everything, I mean everything. With one picture in particular, which was one of my first pictures I ever took, was Oven in Yala and it's not very good. It's blurry. It's, yeah, I don't like to look at it very much. But I look at it now because it shows where I come from and how I've progressed as a photographer as well as a person. Now with that being said, yeah, it's a nice picture. I took it. So with this, as I was growing older with my wildlife photography, I started to realize that I wanted to share with my memories with what I saw with my friends and family and I wanted to capture them as photos. To do this, I'd obviously go to the game reserves and take photos, but I realized somewhere along the line that that wasn't enough for me. I wanted to capture what I thought the true beauty of nature was and to share it with the world because as I said previously, a lot of people don't get to experience what it's like to go into the bush to see a giraffe like this. And that was my goal as a photographer was to bring the bush to the people, not the people to the bush. I remember when my dad always said as I was youngster that animals aren't gonna be around forever and that you must take the most of every experience you get no matter how big or small the opportunity because they're not gonna be there forever. And the animals you photograph today might not be there tomorrow. So as a youngster, as a little 10 year old, I didn't really understand what he was trying to say, but as I grew older, I started to realize and with this picture in particular, it's of an elephant that's been shot in crossing the border of South Africa and Botswana during the dry season. It was shot and ravaged forward skin for the black market. And after seeing this, it made me realize what I wanted to do with my photography to not only share what I thought the beauty of nature was with the world, but to show, to raise awareness for how the animals in our world aren't gonna be around forever and that if we don't make the change, change won't happen. I remember specifically going through my story, going through as I grew older, since words kept on ringing a bell in my head, I always had it at the back of my head, talking about why we should be protecting animals. And as a youngster, I didn't understand this, but slowly through, it gave me the sense that the lines were fading from our world and vanishing, disappearing off the frame. And with that, it won the under 14 category at a competition called the Wild Life Photographer of the Year Awards, which when I came, it was the under 14 category and I placed them 2014 as an 11 year old. To this day, lines have been one of my favorite animals to photograph and there's a big passion of mine to protect them. As you can see by the pictures I've taken behind me. This is on one of my last trips to Botswana. Now, you may be wondering what this Wild Life Photographer of the Year competition is that I previously mentioned. And in the words of myself, it's the Mount Everest of Wild Life Photography. There's no higher place. It's a competition where there's over 45,000 entrance from all over the world and it's exhibited in the Natural History Museum in London. It's a competition where the top 100 pictures get selected and will be exhibited in London and throughout the world. And it's to raise awareness for both the population of the world's wildlife and as well just showcasing the beauty of nature and why we should be protecting it. During this experience, I was fortunate enough to meet Sir David Attenborough, who actually signed my first book as I made as a 13 year old at the time. So that was really a special moment for me and one that I'll cherish for the rest of my life. Throughout all of this, I've been able to get the award of my dreams and my dreams came true when I won the Young Wild Life Photographer of the Year award this year, well, last year now. Time flies. Now, before I go on to talking about what the picture won, how I won, I thought it'd be right to mention how it was started. So this was during when we went to Kenya for my mom's 40th birthday and we went with a photographer called Greg DeToy. Now, he's the Wild Life Photographer of the Year for 2013 and I was so fascinated with what he could do with a camera that I stuck to him like Volcro. I was so inspired and excited by what he could do and what he called his job because I thought it was more like a holiday. So I wanted to learn as much as I could from him and I remember asking him about a picture that I took when I was 11 years old and straight after I asked him what he thought about it, he went up to me and he said, Scar, look at this competition and show my parents the Wild Life Photographer of the Year and he told me in a couple of years' time when I'm an adult, I might have the potential to place in the competition, but to his dismay, I made it the next year and this is me and Greg in London. So just, I can see I'm already short on time so I'm gonna do a bit of a skip action. The whole point of my photography shifted when I realized that I hadn't made it into the competition for four years because after I took my original shot of vanishing line, I entered each year and to no avail didn't place anywhere. I realized that I was missing something and that some of my pictures placed and others not. And what this was was I needed to make people feel something. I needed to evoke an emotion, a feeling. And that's when it all dawned on me that I just needed to change my perspective and that the common shouldn't be seen as mundane and that with a change of perspective, you can even see a baboon or a bird or a zebra as something super extraordinary if given the right approach and that you don't need to see exotic things. You just have to have an exotic approach. A picture I like in this too is a picture called Dawn of the Beast, which is of a volubist actually making a poo. It doesn't sound very photogenic, does it? But it's a picture that I saw an opportunity to make look as best as I could and to showcase that even though it's a common thing, it's beautiful. So now the picture that won, the whole wildlife photographer of the awards is called Lounge Lepid. It's a picture of a leopard I've been following for the last eight years and I've actually been fortunate enough to grow alongside her from just older than a cub to having a second litter now. I've been able to photograph her since I first started my photography journey and have been able to grow alongside her. So it's been a really awesome experience for me, especially with this photo being my winner. I've taken this leopard in particular is very special to me, not only because of how long I've been taking photos of her, she broke her leg as a cub and as a cub, a leopard's like to drag their kills up trees, but she couldn't do this because of her injured leg. But through a miracle, she somehow managed to survive and to this day is doing really well. So this is her cub. I've recently just taken photos of her. They're both beautiful. I love them. So to summarize my whole talk, I'd like to say that the youth play a very important role in conservation especially because whether we like it or not, the previous generations haven't left the youth with much to do. We have to fix a lot of things and the thing is we don't have the experience or the knowledge to fix them, which is why I believe that if all of us work together, we can actually make a difference. And that's all I wanted to say. So thank you very much for your time and I hope you enjoyed my story. Thank you. Anywhere you want, either there or there. Thank you very much, Skye, that was great. Now I have the honor to introduce Dr. Jane Goodall, not that she needs an introduction. You know, at National Geographic, we show, we see our role as helping people make the world a better place to really understand the world and nobody has embodied this more really in the last 50 or 60 years than Dr. Jane Goodall. About 55 years ago, Jane, and I hope you don't mind if I call you Jane, because we all think of you as Jane, because we all feel like we know you so well from seeing you over the years on television. You know, Jane set foot on the shores of what today is Tanzania's Gambe National Park to begin her pioneering chimpanzee behavioral study. It forever changed our understanding of great apes and our relationship with animals. In the last five decades, her message has evolved into a personal quest to empower others to make the world a better place for all living things. In 1977, Jane established the Jane Goodall Institute and today, JGI has expanded around the globe, continuing research at Gambe and implementing innovative community-centered conservation projects. Since the late 80s, Jane has been traveling around the world, speaking out about conservation. As she says, only if we understand will we care, only if we care will we help, only if we help shall all be saved. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Jane Goodall. I don't know about him. Tell me about him. Well, he's one of my symbols of hope because he was given to me by a man who went blind at 21, decided to become a magician. Everyone said, you can't be a magician if you're blind. He said, I can try. The children don't know he's blind and at the end, he'll tell them and say, if something goes wrong and it might don't give up, it's always a way forward. He's just taught himself to paint, never painted before. And he gave me this 28 years ago, thinking it was a chimpanzee. Well, close. So he said, never mind, take him where you go and I'm with you in the spirit. So he's been to 64 countries. Wow, well, we are honored to have- He's very famous. Does he have a name? Mr. H. Mr. H. I mean, who wants to H? Okay, well, Mr. H, we're glad you could join us here today for this conversation. And before we get started, I did wanna mention that behind us, Jane, these are some pictures that you picked out as pictures of your career and different places that you've been, but that Jane specifically picked out these pictures as being some of the most important to her.  Well, I think one of the most fascinating things is the fact that in different parts of their range they have different behaviors. And we're still working on some of that is because of the environment, but also they have their own sort of culture like we now know other animals too. So if you define cultures, behavior pass from one generation to the next through observation, imitation, and practice, you watch the infants watching. And so for example, you may have the same fruit in two different places. In one area it's eaten, another area it's not. And you can actually see the mothers hitting it away if an infant tries. So they have these cultural behaviors as well. And we need to know as much as we can because so many of these groups are gone. So many of the different chimps families are gone. But you know, for example, at Gombe, the chimps make a nest every night. They wouldn't dream of leaving their nest at night. In Senegal, where JGI is working, it's so hot that the chimpanzees have learned to forage at night when there's a full moon. In Uganda, where the habitat is more like Gombe, they're foraging at night because they've been pushed back and back by the local people, them taking over more forest. So they've learned to forage on crops and it's safer at night. Well, so they're just making adaptations the way any of us would to our culture. And nobody believed that that was possible. And do you feel like, I mean, I guess that sort of leads to my next question, which is what do you wish that more people knew about the natural world? Well, I think like the photographs we've just seen, there are photographers, there are artists, there are painters, writers, all talking about the natural world. It's also important, we have a youth program which is now in nearly 80 countries, roots and tubes. And we have our young people go out very often with GPS and they map the city. You'd be amazed at the wildlife within a city. It's everywhere. And so now they're beginning to create corridors linking up one patch of, with a little bit of wilderness left and so spreading wildlife through the city. I mean, so is it your sense that people just are unaware of the wildlife that is actually around them wherever they live? Yes, because unfortunately, young people today spend nearly all their time in a virtual world and on the, you know, look at them on a bus. They're not looking out of the window. They're not seeing beautiful sunsets. They're texting each other. Well, I wouldn't just blame that on the young people actually. Pretty much everybody, it seems. Yeah, I know that the young people are not having experience in nature, which they need for proper psychological development. It's been shown. You know, that actually leads to the next area. I wanted to talk to you about it. So you've had this amazing career. You've done so many things.  When you look back on all the things you've done, what were some of the happiest moments of your career? I think one of the really happiest moments was illustrated in one of those pictures when the mother of little Flint trusted me sufficiently to let her precious baby come up and reach out to touch me. And that was, you know, it was like, yes, I've really been accepted now. And another one, the old male, David Graveyard, who was the first one to accept me. And I handed him this palm nut or on the palm of my hand because chimps loved them. And he turned away. So I put my hand closer. He reached out. He took and dropped the nut. Must have been something wrong with it. But very gently squeezed my fingers. And that's how chimpanzees reassure each other. So in that moment, we communicated in a gestural language that must have predated human speech. And you felt for the first time that they had sort of accepted you in being there? Well, they did in the end. It was almost like I wasn't part of the group, but I was part of the environment and no more to be feared than a baboon. So if you had a magic wand and you could change overnight, one thing about the way that we treat animals and think about animals, what would it be? When I first got to Cambridge because Leakey told me I had to get a degree, I haven't been to college. And there I'm London doing a PhD. I've been two years with the chimps. And the professors told me I'd done everything wrong. I shouldn't have given the chimps these names. They should have had numbers. I couldn't talk about them having personalities, minds or emotion. Those were unique to us. There was a difference in kind between us upon an elevated platform and all the others down there. Thanks to the chimps being so biologically like us as well as behaviorally like us, they really helped me break down that narrow reductionist way of thinking. And today, it's accepted by more and more that animals too have personalities, minds and emotions. They can feel happy, sad to spare. And it's not just the chimpanzees and the wildlife whose photos you saw. It's the cows and the pigs that we're eating and cramming into these horrible things. So what would I like to change? I would like people to understand that all animals have a personality and individuality and that they can feel happy, sad, they can feel pain. And we need to treat them with much greater respect.  He was my teacher. Now tell me, who is that dog? That's Rusty. Now Rusty was with me in my childhood. When the professors told me I'd done everything wrong, although I was scared of them, this was my teacher. And he had already taught me when I was a childhood. In this respect, the professors were wrong. You couldn't have a greater personality than this. High intelligence and certainly had his moves. Well, it always makes me laugh when we talk about training dogs, cause I really think dogs train us. But it seems like in some aspects, your career has taken you on a track from a naturalist to an educator to an activist. And even getting involved in the debate going on in Wyoming about shooting grizzly bears. Oh, this is, I think, Jane, the picture that you were talking about, right? Yes, little Flint. Look at those eyes looking up at me. And this wonder, this awe that you see in animals as well as humans. So fantastic. So is that how you feel now? Do you feel like you're an activist on behalf of animals? How would you describe? Well, I am indeed an activist on behalf of animals. But the interesting thing is when I went to learn more about what was happening to chimpanzees, the destruction of the forests, which of course, if we lose the forests, we lose all that rich biodiversity. And realizing as I learn more and more in different parts of Africa, that the problems facing many of the African people were shocking, the crippling poverty, the lack of good health and education. When I flew over Gombe, it used to be part of that great equatorial forest belt. And that was in 1960 and 1970. 1990, it was a tiny island, 35 square kilometers, that's all it is, surrounded by completely bare hills. People struggling to survive, more than the land could support. And that's when it hit me, if we don't do something to help the people and alleviate the crippling poverty, we can't even try to save wildlife. And so we began this program, which is now in six different African countries around Gombe. Now if you fly over it, there's no bare hills anymore. The forest has come back. And people are beginning to understand saving the forest isn't just about preserving wildlife. It's their own future. We need the forests for the clean air and the clean water. And the rate at which particularly tropical, but all forests are going, is one of the major causes of climate change. Because they absorb the CO2, they give out oxygen and they're being cut down. And even the CO2 in the forest floor is being released. So I mean, this is just a great example of one of the many walls that you've hit that you've either gone around or climbed over.   They didn't believe your research. You were a girl, they said all that thing. So when you hit these difficult points and you're trying to tackle so many hard issues, when you get discouraged, how do you get over that hump? Well, one, I got a great team. And of course, originally it was my mother who was my terrific supporter. And I'm an obstinate kind of person. And the more I get hit, the more it's like one of those Russian dolls. I say, I'm not going to let you defeat me. And we can look around the world today and see what's happening. See some of these figures who've reared up and they're harming the environment and harming society and risking war. And we can't actually go and fight them, but we can grow around them, grow a strong base of young people in our Roots and Shoots program, growing up who will take their places, who will have different values, who will respect the environment. Well, and I think we've heard from a young person like that today. And we're going to have a conversation with him in a minute. But I think the first thing we wanted to do, you brought with you a video that we were going to show. And then the three of us will have a chat. So to introduce the video briefly, chimpanzee mothers are shot, sometimes for bushmeat, sometimes to sell the infants overseas for entertainment or so. So you can't put these babies back in the forest. We have sanctuaries. Biggest one in Africa is our JGI Sanctuary in Congo, Chimpunga. And we're trying to release all of the chimps onto these forested islands. So when you see this video, what I'd like you to remember is that this is the first day I met this particular chimpanzee. And the video says it all, but this is the first day I met her. I think what happened when she was let out into the island is maybe the most amazing thing that's happened in my whole life. Okay. I want you to watch it and try and feel how it must have been to be there and see this happening. Let's take a look. This is a really exciting moment for me. The Jane Goodall Institute's Chimpunga Chimpanzee Rehabilitation Center in the Republic of Congo has for years been caring for infants whose mothers were killed, mostly for the illegal bushmeat trade. Many of them are now fully grown. Recently, we acquired three large forested islands on the beautiful Quilu River where we can release many of the chimpanzees from our overcrowded center. In here is Wunda. And she nearly died, but thanks to Rebecca, she came back from the dead. And here she is, about to come out into this paradise. She's the 15th chimpanzee to get her freedom here. And we hope ultimately to have about 60 on the island. Today is the first time I've met Wunda. I talked to her on the boat, trying to reassure her. She must have wondered what was happening. None of us could predict exactly what she would do once the cage door opened. It was a very, very touching moment. One of the most amazing things that's ever happened to me. The warmth of her embrace is something I shall never forget. For Wunda and all the other chimpanzees we're working to bring here, Chinzula Island will provide a wonderful forest home where they will be cared for and safe. Well, that is amazing. And there's probably not a dry eye in the house. At least that's how I feel. So I'm gonna try it rather than trying. I know, I know, my goodness. So Skye, let me just start with you. What would you wanna ask Jane Goodall? You've heard her talking here. You know all about her. You've seen this amazing video. What's your question for Jane? I have to dry my eyes. I'd just like to say that it's such an honor to meet you. I've looked at your story through since I first started going into nature conservation. And it's just been inspiring to see that video. I think all of us can easily say that's one of the most touching things that we've seen. But for me, in a day and age where my generation we're young, we're very tech savvy, we don't go and experience nature. So the question I'd ask is, how can we try and change that and change people's perspective of the nature is worth something that we should be trying our best and doing everything we can to be a part of, to accept, to be like, you know, to save it at the end of the day. Well, that's really why I began the Roots and Shoots program in 1991. And it began with high school students. Now it's kindergarten, university, and everything in between. One of the things we try to do, particularly with the younger children in school, is to make sure either that they can get out into nature, not Africa or places like, or necessarily in Africa. But, you know, just into some park or botanical gardens. And even if we can't do that, because sometimes it's really difficult in very poor areas to get children out, but we can bring nature into the classroom. And so children need to feel the dirt.  We've got a lot of children doing organic gardens. So when I go to the kindergarteners, I can't tell you how many times they open their, their vermiculture, and they reach in among all their filthy leftover food to put these little worms in mine. These little worms are changing the food so that things can grow. So they're studying spiders and birds, and they're using GIS, GPS, so you can bring technology in. And we just do whatever we can. Yeah, because I think it's really important with the whole way that technology is evolving to still keep it so that we can take the advantages of technology, but also bring it into keeping nature the way it is. So, yeah, it's very... It should be the best of both worlds. Don't go around saying any more. You said today that in so many years, these animals won't be here, because we're not going to let it happen. Correct. Okay, I think that you're on board with that, right? Totally, right? No, Jane, if you were... Skye's age, what do you think you'd be doing now? If I was his age? Yeah. Now, today, I have the remotest idea. Okay. But I think... I'm sure it would... You see, I might be a different person, but if I was the person I was, living now, it would certainly be something to do with animals. As you know, I can't help saying, I'm sure many of you saw the movie Jane, a geographic film, and that amazing photography.  He went out to nature. He had his little... I think it was a box, a box brownie to start with, you know, long before your time. And so he too had a passion for photography from a very, very young age. Well, that's a good endorsement, I would say. All right. I've got a question here from somebody out there, and we're gonna also open up to the audience here. But the question is for Skye, actually, and it's Skye, what do you love most about photography? I feel like... I have so much to talk about when I say I love photography, but in particular, the reactions that people have when they see my photos is, as I said, they don't get to see what nature is, and I like to show people what nature is. And just like that wild factor, and the fact that I feel good that I made someone else feel good by looking at this animal, and I've also at the same time made them feel passionate about that animal, and saying they can now do, they can choose what they want to do, but at least in the back of their mind, they have that feeling that, yes, we can fight against this if something goes wrong. Yes, we can change it. We're not going to let them die out. So that's for me, yeah. Well, it sounds actually like you have a lot in common, both being passionate about raising awareness so much. And Jane, here's a question for you. What influenced you most in your career? What influenced me most in my career? I was 10 years old. Of course, when I was 10, there was not even any television, so it was books. Also, World War II was raging at the time, and I don't think children's books were made then. I'm sure they weren't. But I found this little secondhand bookshop. We didn't have any money anyway. And I found this little book, I'd saved up just enough of my pennies of pocket money to buy it. I still have it, it's this big, and it was called Tarzan of the Apes. I took it home, I read it from cover to cover, fell passionately in love with this glorious law of the jungle, and what did Tarzan do? He married the wrong Jane. So I was very jealous of her. Well, of course, I knew that there wasn't a Tarzan, but that's when my dream began. I will go to Africa, live with wild animals, and write books about them. So I was influenced by Tarzan. I was influenced by Dr. Do Little. I was, those really, it was books that influenced me the most. Probably my dog too. Well, and it sounds like, Skye, your biggest influence now is what you're seeing through that viewfinder and how you can use that to activate. Like, as I've said, my parents have always been so passionate about wildlife, and they wanted to show me the pictures that they've taken, the things that they've seen. And I've always wanted to do that for my children, my grandchildren, so I'm just really chuffed that I get the opportunity to take photographs, and I think it's something that a lot of people at my age don't think, let's take a photo. So for me to be able to do that is just mind blowing, and I'm very grateful for it. I think it'd be great if you became involved in Roots and Shoots, because then you could share your knowledge and your passion with our 80 countries around the world. Well, I'd love to. Okay, we'll talk about it later. Well, this is Davos, we've struck a deal. So I wanna ask you both the same question, because you both mentioned it in different ways, and that's how do we get younger people to really appreciate and actually go outside more? And first Jane, let me ask you. I really answered it, didn't I? Well, with Roots and Shoots, right? Because if they don't actually get out there, they're never going to appreciate it. You started off with that quote, only if we understand, can we care, and if we care, will we help? Only if we help, should all be saved. And so any way we can to get young children out into nature. Any way we can. Well, let me ask then somebody who probably occasionally needs to get pried out away from his devices. Do you think that we can get people to look up and to see? I think that we definitely can. The question is how, it's not gonna be easy though. With the way that technology is integrated into our society as a whole, especially at my school, I've invited people to go and see some of the best places in the world for wildlife and to experience nature. And even not even that, just to go to our victimical gardens and stuff. And they say, no, the reception's bad. So. So I disconnect myself from my device whenever I go into nature. And obviously on the drive here, I looked at the mountains and stuff. But I feel like people aren't going to take, it's quite, it's conflicting because in order for people to understand why they should go into an experienced nature, we have to use technology to show them why they should go into nature. So it's one of those things where me as a photographer, my goal is to inspire the people to go and experience nature for themselves. But I also rely on technology to do that. It's interesting, you know, just last night, no, not before, last night I was in a plane. I was having dinner with some people in Abu Dhabi and there's this young Emirati. And she said, she asked the same question, how do we get these young people out into nature? She said, well, they're all dependent on their smartphones and things.  If you get enough points, then you can be taken to a very exotic place. So she's making a game using the technology and we're hoping. I mean, I only heard about it last night before last. Yeah, now, let's give it a like. I think it's exciting and she's just developing it now. Yeah, no, that's definitely one way to do it because the thing is with technology, there's so many different ways you can reach out with those live streaming of the waterholes. A lot of my friends, I play it during class when we're not doing work. Well, just to cover that one. Yeah, so I like to do that. And then I show, hey, look, there's an elephant. And then I go, oh, wow. And then I'll tell them a bit about an elephant. They get interested in the elephant, they look up the elephant. And now I've actually been fortunate enough to take a family friend of mine up into the bush to see wildlife for the first time. And I've never seen someone as happy in my life just to be a part of nature for the first time. And to disconnect. That's fantastic. And it might take some of those innovative solutions to get it to happen. But we took a young man from very inner city, very poor area, lots of crime. I think it was Boston. And he brought his little group to join some roots and shoots. And we took them onto the river in little boats. You should have seen those kids from this inner city slum area. They'd never seen anything. And by the end they were fishing things out with their net. They were looking at them. They didn't want to leave. And they'd never, ever seen nature before. I am afraid we are gonna have to wrap this up, but I just wanted to ask one more question of you, Jane. And it's, what do you want your legacy to be? How do you want people to remember you and your work that you've done that's been so impactful and so important? I think two ways. One, helping people to understand animals as individuals with each one matters and has a role to play. And we stop thinking of them in numbers and as mere things that we can do with as we will. So that's one, I think. Because of the chimps and Rusty, I've really broken down a barrier there. And secondly, starting roots and shoots. Because in roots and shoots, what I didn't say is each group, we don't tell them what to do. They choose. So it's not top down. And depending on the country there in the culture, the religion, the rich, poor, whatever, they choose different projects. But one is to help people. One is to help animals. One is to help the environment. And so it's like nature. Everything is interconnected. And they're linked with each other around the globe and they're beginning to understand the color of your skin, your culture, what you eat. Doesn't really matter because inside we have the same human heart. Our blood is the same. Our tears are the same. We are a family. And if we can't stop this fighting, this terrible, terrible fighting that's going on now in so many parts of the world, there's what future for you talk about your grandchildren. So it's not just the animals we're losing out on right now. It's our future in so many ways. Definitely. And with the individuality, I know we can shorten time, the leopard I've taken, photographed, so for the last eight years, her name's Lumpy, as I said, because of her broken leg. And I've also been asked questions as well.


Thank you very much. That concludes topical questions. We turn now to First Minister's questions. Question number one from Ruth Davidson. Thank you, Presiding Officer, may I take this opportunity to welcome Richard Leonard to his post despite the differences between our two parties? I believe that leadership is a privilege and it can also be a joy. So I wish him well. And moving to substantive matters, can I ask the First Minister, is her Scottish growth scheme a con? First minister? First let me take the opportunity to congratulate Richard Leonard on his election as leader of Labour in Scotland and welcome him to his place today. I look forward to our exchanges taking place in just a few minutes time. The Scottish growth scheme, as Ruth Davidson is aware, was established on the announcement of the scheme that was made last year in the programme for government work has been done to establish that since. Through the different strands of the Scottish growth scheme, we intend to see companies supported in the very near future. Of course, we want to go further. We have now announced an intention to establish a Scottish national investment bank to provide long-term patient capital for Scottish businesses and support the strategic development of the Scottish economy. Something I would hope members right across the chamber would support. Ruth Davidson. I thank the First Minister for that answer, but the reason I asked it, Presiding Officer, was because in a parliamentary answer a few weeks ago, the Scottish Government confirmed that the first £50 million of that fund will come from the financial transactions budget. That is a method of funding that was yesterday described by the finance secretary, Derek Mackay, as a con. Of course, when the First Minister announced her big Scottish growth scheme last year, she used quite different languages. She said that this is a £0.5 billion vote of confidence in Scottish business, Scottish workers and the Scottish economy. Like everyone else in the chamber, I would welcome £0.5 billion investment in the Scottish economy if any pennies of it were ever to appear quite soon. However, I am just curious as to whether the First Minister can explain why, when the Scottish Government uses this method to invest in Scotland, it is a vote of confidence, but when the UK Government does it, it is a con. First Minister. Let me explain exactly why the Chancellor of the Shackers announcement in the budget yesterday is accurately described as a con, because I was watching. He stood up and he said without qualification that his budget would deliver an extra £2 billion for Scotland. Here is what the Fraser of Allander Institute said yesterday about the £1.1 billion of that that is in the form of financial transactions. It cannot be used to support day-to-day spending on public services, so the Chancellor tried to give the impression that this was somehow a big boost to our health service, our education system, to public services, the length and breadth of the country. However, as Ruth Davidson knows, that is far from the truth. In fact, the reality following the budget yesterday is this again confirmed by the Fraser of Allander Institute. Scotland is facing a real terms cut in our day-to-day budget next year of more than £200 million, more than £500 million over the next two years. If Ruth Davidson is prepared to stand up in this chamber today and somehow argue that that is a good deal for Scotland, then Ruth Davidson is even more of a party stooge for her Westminster masters than I thought she was. Ruth Davidson. We usually hear from the SNP that they are not getting enough money. Today we have a brand new one. It is the wrong kind of money that they are being given. Money that can be spent on housing, no thank you, money to tackle fuel poverty, how dare the UK Government. Only this First Minister could be handed an extra £2 billion in spending power and still sounds like somebody has stolen or scone. Shouldn't the First Minister spend a little less time complaining about where the money is coming from and a bit more time thinking of the positive things that she can do with it? First Minister. Well, if I was a Tory these days, I wouldn't be standing up here talking about scones given the number of Scottish families being forced to food banks because of the policies of this Tory Government. Here's another fact about the so-called large S towards Scotland of the Chancellor. Not only can those financial transactions in the words of the Fraser of Allander Institute not be spent on day-to-day spending on public services, this money also has to be repaid by the Scottish Government to the UK Government. Let's just cut to the chase. I know that Ruth Davidson desperately wants to somehow pretend that yesterday's budget was a great deal for Scotland, but let me go back to the central point here. This is the central point that Ruth Davidson has to address. I would invite her to do so after the budget yesterday. Even if everything that Ruth Davidson is saying about the budget yesterday is true, after all of that is taken into account, the resource day-to-day spending budget of this Government next year will be £200 million less in real terms. I invite Ruth Davidson to stand up here when she next gets her feet and tell us where she thinks we should take that £200 million from, the health service, education or, if not these things, where does Ruth Davidson think that these Tory cuts should be taken from? Ruth Davidson. The First Minister is standing there telling us that she's being shortchanged, but some of us think that an extra £2 billion more than she woke up with yesterday morning is quite a bit of extra change to have. That money is available now for the Scottish Government ahead of its budget next month, and she faces a test. At the election, we promised to raise the minimum wage and to increase the personal allowance so that we didn't take that increase back in tax. Yesterday, that promise was delivered. The SNP promised to protect the basic rate of income tax, and it is now preparing to hike it up. Is that not the difference between us? When it comes to tax, we keep our promises to Scotland workers and she breaks ours. Ruth Davidson does not want to take my word for what the budget yesterday means for public spending in Scotland. I am right now going to read out word for word from the blog that was published yesterday by the Fraser of Allander Institute. I assume that nobody across the chamber will question those findings. The Scottish Government resource block grant remains on track to fall in real terms over the next two years. By 2020, the resource block grant will be around £500 million lower than in 2017-18. Over the next two years, £500 million has been cut from Scotland's budget by the Tories. Ruth Davidson has got the nerve to stand up here and try to tell us that the Tories are doing us some kind of favour. As we conclude our deliberations over our budget over the next few weeks, we will be considering how we protect our public services in the face of those cuts and how we protect vulnerable families, so many of whom are being forced into poverty and to food banks by the Tory Government, and how we continue to make investments in the infrastructure and support that our businesses need to thrive and to grow the economy. We will take decisions that are in the interests of the people of Scotland, while the Tories continue to impose cuts on the people of Scotland. 2. Richard Leonard Presiding Officer, this morning I had the honour of addressing a rally of firefighters from right across Scotland who are lobbying this Parliament today. Those courageous women and men put their lives on the line to keep the rest of us safe. Since Scotland's fire and rescue service was centralised, those heroic firefighters have seen over 700 front-line jobs axed. They have watched their pay being cut in real terms, year upon year. They see a service in decline. Will the First Minister explain why, on her watch, Scotland's fire and rescue service has been cut? First Minister. First Lady, can I also take the opportunity to pay tribute to our firefighters? They do a fantastic job day in and day out. As Richard Leonard rightly says, regularly put their lives on the line in the interests of the safety of all of us. Let me just address the issues that Richard Leonard has raised. They are important issues, but it is because they are important that this Government has increased the operational budget for the fire and rescue service in this financial year by £21.7 million to support investment in equipment and resources. As a result of the budget yesterday and after years of pressure by those of us on this side of the house, £10 million next year will be able to be reclaimed by the fire service in that, and they will benefit from the whole of that additional £10 million. Since reform of the fire service, there have been no compulsory redundancies and no station closures. 100 additional firefighters were recruited in January of this year, and a recruitment campaign for 300 additional firefighters will be launched next week. Our focus has been and will continue to be on protecting front-line services. On the issue of pay negotiations in terms of the fire and rescue services, as Richard Leonard will be aware, we are on-going. In terms of the next financial year, of course, this Government to this day remains the only Government in the whole of the UK. Here, of course, I include the Labour Government in Wales. We are the only Government in the UK that has given an unequivocal commitment to lift the 1 per cent public sector pay cap, and I think that it is deeply regrettable that no other Government, including the Labour Government in Wales, has yet to agree to do likewise. The poster of the Fire Brigades Union in Scotland made it clear—no more cuts. The people of Scotland will have to make up their mind about who they believe. The firefighters on the front line or the First Minister on the sideline. Under my leadership, the Scottish Labour Party will work with the Government and the trade unions to try and claw back the millions of pounds that have been lost, but that in itself will not be enough, so will the First Minister guarantee no more cuts to the fire and rescue service. I have just run through the facts for Richard Leonard. The operational budget of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service this year has increased, and far from further cuts, as Richard Leonard is asking me about, we have recruited—this year—the Fire and Rescue Service has recruited already 100 extra firefighters and are about to, on 30 November, open a recruitment campaign for 300 more firefighters. That is increasing front-line firefighters, not reducing the number of front-line firefighters. As I said, we will ensure that the fire service gets the full benefit of the fact that they are able to reclaim next year. We will continue to stand up for front-line public services. We will continue to stand up for those who work in our public services. We will continue to stand up for those who work in private companies, just as we did last week, getting a deal together to save BiFab and the jobs that depend on that. We will continue to act in the interests of workers, public and private sector workers across Scotland. As we do so, I hope that we will have the support of Richard Leonard and his colleagues. Richard Leonard, it is not just the firefighters that this Government is failing. After seven years of Tory austerity and a decade of mediocrity and indifference from the SNP, we have the result of falling wages, shrinking public services, rising poverty, widening inequality. Local Government budget is decimated. A quarter of a million children in Scotland are living in poverty. Hundreds of thousands of pensioners this winter are facing the choice between eating and heating. More of the same, more of the same just won't do. Scotland needs real change and radical change, so will the First Minister stand up? Stand up for Scotland's firefighters. Stand up for Scotland's public services workers. Stand up for all of Scotland's people. Finally, use the powers of the Parliament to stop the cuts. The First Minister is rather rambling. I heard Richard Leonard mention pensions. I remind Richard Leonard that pensions are a reserved matter. However, if he wants to join us in a campaign to devolve responsibility for pensions to this Parliament, I would be still like that. I have, we have, and we will continue to oppose austerity. I simply remind Richard Leonard that the current period of austerity was actually started by Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling under the last Labour Government. Richard Leonard also mentioned wages. I say again that this Government, unlike any other Government in the UK, has committed to lifting the 1 per cent public sector pay cap. That will form part of the budget that we present to this Parliament in just a couple of weeks' time. I suggest to Richard Leonard that it is easy for Labour, out of power, to call on those in government to do things, but that is not credible when the only part of the UK where Labour is in power, they refuse to do the things that Labour in this Parliament call on us to do. Perhaps before the next time Richard Leonard wants to come and ask me to do those things, he should persuade the First Minister of Wales, the Labour First Minister of Wales, to do them as well. We will, when we put forward our budget, it will be a budget to protect public services, it will be a budget to protect the low-income vulnerable people of our country and it will be a budget overall that is about standing up for Scotland. When we publish it, I will challenge all parties across the chamber to back it, because it will be in the interests of the country that we serve. Question 3, Patrick Harvie. Thank you, Presiding Officer. May I add my congratulations to Richard Leonard on his election and welcome him to his place on the Labour front bench? One of the most short-sighted mistakes in the UK budget is the decision to cut stamp duty, which all serious analysis shows will push house prices even higher and entirely fail to benefit first-time buyers. Their methods of investment in new housing is also likely to provide more benefit for developers and landowners than for people truly in need of genuinely affordable housing. The equivalent of stamp duty is devolved in Scotland, and the Scottish Government has previously already given ground to pressure from the Tories by cutting it to compete with George Osborne's policy. Can the First Minister give a clear guarantee that the Scottish Government will not repeat that mistake and will this time refuse to follow a foolish decision by a UK Government? Of course. We have already got a more progressive system of what is stamp duty south of the border and what is land and buildings transaction tax here in Scotland. The Treasury said yesterday that the policy that was announced in the budget was intended to exempt 80 per cent of first-time buyers from stamp duty. Let me run through the current position in Scotland. Already in Scotland, 65 per cent of first-time buyers are completely exempt from LBTT. 80 per cent of first-time buyers already pay either no tax at all or less than £600 in LBTT, and all first-time buyers, 100 per cent, who buy at or below the average Scottish house price, are already exempt from paying LBTT. We already provide much more generous support to first-time buyers. Of course, as we finalise our budget over the next couple of weeks, we will consider whether or not it is appropriate to give any further assistance to first-time buyers. As we do that, two points will be very much in our consideration. Firstly, the fact that house prices are lower in Scotland than they are in the rest of the UK—for example, the equivalent of a house at £300,000 in the rest of the UK—would be around £175,000. Secondly, we will be very mindful of the point that Patrick Harvie talks about today. The OBR, the Office for Budget Responsibility, said yesterday that, in its view, the policy announced by the Chancellor will push up house prices and result in first-time buyers paying more for their house than they would without that policy. Even with the voodoo economics that we get from the Tories, I do not think that that would make much sense. Those will be the considerations that we have in mind as we finalise our budget proposals in a couple of weeks' time. Patrick Harvie. Thank you. I agree that it would not make much sense. It did not make much sense last time that the Scottish Government did it either, because throwing tax cuts into a dysfunctional housing market solves nothing. Housing is not the only area where the UK Government is determined to help those who are least in need. Yet another income tax cut for high earners, while people working hard to deliver public services, have still not been given a fair pay rise. If the SNP's Westminster leader meant what he said yesterday in the Westminster chamber that public sector pay should match the cost of living—a phrase that I do not think that we have heard from the First Minister yet—if we are to see that and if we are also to avoid handing on Tory cuts to our local services and other parts of the Scottish budget, is it not time for the First Minister to come off the fence on income tax and accept that we need a radical redesign along the lines that the Green Party has proposed, protecting low earners, cutting inequality and raising revenue from the likes of the First Minister and myself who can afford to pay more to invest in the services that our country needs? In terms of the Green Party's specific proposals that it put forward at the election, when you read the detail of the paper that we published just a couple of weeks ago, what would be raised from those would certainly give you pause for thought about whether that was the right way to go. We have set out options around income tax that will allow us, if we choose to follow any of the options, to see tax revenue make a contribution to meeting the challenges that we face in terms of our budget. In terms of public sector pay, I have been very clear that the 1 per cent pay cap should be lifted and that we have to have pay settlements for those in our public sector. That, of course, is affordable. That is just a statement of fact, but it also reflects the real-life living circumstances of public sector workers. I know that everybody across the chamber—understandably, no doubt those in the press gallery—want me to hear me say today specifically what our proposals in tax and public sector pay will be when we produce our budget. We will go through the perhaps less dramatic but certainly more appropriate process of finalising our budget proposals and presenting them to this Parliament in just a couple of weeks' time, and then everybody will be able to debate them. I hope to support them, because the proposals that we have put forward will be in the overall interests of this country, its people, its public services and its economy. We have a number of supplementaries. The First Minister will no doubt have heard the news today that Dundee's bid to become the European capital of culture in 2023 has been dealt a fatal blow. According to reports, the UK will now no longer be able to host this because of Brexit. Dundee's bid had the potential to have a massive positive impact, not just for Dundee, but for the likes of my constituency in Angus North and Merns and the wider north-east. What conversations has the First Minister had with the UK Government on this matter? I am absolutely dismayed by the news that I heard this morning from the European Commission that Dundee's European capital of culture bid looks as if it is going to be the latest victim of the Tory's obsession with taking this country out of the European Union against our will, and they should hang their heads in shame. The Scottish Government, of course, anticipated the issues. Late last year, Fiona Hyslop wrote to the UK Government to highlight the enormous benefits that international cultural engagement can bring, and to seek reassurances then that the UK would continue to participate in partnerships like the European capital of culture. It is now deeply concerning that the amount of time, effort and expense that Dundee has put into scoping out their bid could be wasted thanks to the Brexit policy of this Tory Government. We are now in urgent contact with the UK Government and Dundee to understand the potential implications of the situation and to establish what action the UK Government is going to take to address it. Let me leave the chamber in no doubt. I call on the UK Government today to make clear not just why this has happened but how it intends to fix it so that Dundee can continue to aspire to be the European capital of culture that it so richly deserves to be. Jeremy Balfour would be the First Minister joining with me in expressing concern that Dad's Work, a charity based here in Lothian and well known to the Scottish Government, for the good work that it does helping dads to develop better relationships with their children, is having to reduce services, including playgroups, counselling, falling recent funding cuts. Would she ask her officials to meet me and Dad's Work to see what help can be given in the short-term and long-term to support this worthy cause? First Minister. I thank Jeremy Balfour for raising the issue of Dad's Work. It is an organisation that I know of and have seen firsthand the excellent work that it does to help fathers to develop better relationships with their children. Something that, for the good of society overall, is a very, very worthwhile cause. I will have my officials look into the particular issue that Jeremy Balfour raises and write to him once we have had the opportunity to do that. The final point that I would make is that it is not intended to have a goat Jeremy Balfour who is raising legitimately an important constituency issue, but here we see one of just many real life implications of what I was saying to Ruth Davidson earlier on. We face next year a £200 million real terms cut in our day-to-day budget, and those are the kind of implications that will have to be faced because of that. I am afraid that that is bringing the Tories face-to-face with the real consequences of the budget decisions that they make. Gail Ross I remind the chamber that I am a board member of Remembrings, Shrebrinates of Scotland and also a PLO to the First Minister. Yesterday, former Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic was jailed for life for atrocities committed in the 1990s Bosnian War, including the 1995 genocide at Shrebrinatesa, in which over 8,000 mainly Muslim men and boys were slaughtered. That result will be of interest to many in Scotland, particularly those in our Bosnian community. Does the First Minister agree that yesterday's verdict is a tribute not just to the importance of the international community working together, but particularly for groups such as the mothers of Shrebrinatesa, who have campaigned tirelessly on behalf of the victims? Will the First Minister commit to helping in any way that Scotland can to delivering a stable and prosperous future for our friends in Bosnia-Herzegovna? I share very much Gail Ross's sentiments. I very much welcome yesterday's verdict and the sentence handed down to Ratko Mladic. I personally, as I know others in this chamber, have visited Shrebrinatesa, the memorial at Potikari and I know from the people I met there how much this verdict and sentence will mean to them and indeed to all who suffered in the 1995 genocide and indeed to everybody across Bosnia-Herzegovna who has suffered as a result of genocide and war. We need to ensure that the victims of violence and perhaps in particular victims of sexual violence are heard and that the crimes against them are not forgotten. Groups such as the mothers of Shrebrinatesa, who I have also had the privilege of meeting, provide an inspiration for all of us, Governments and communities right across the world to act to reduce and ultimately eradicate violence against women. I know today that it would be appropriate for all of us in this Parliament on behalf of the people of Scotland to send a message of commemoration, solidarity and support to the people of Shrebrinatesa. Kate Forbes Yesterday, the independent Fraser of Allander institute passed its verdict on the UK Government budget and it branded UK growth prospects as an, I quote, dire. As the MSP for a rural part of Scotland that will feel the impact first and as PLO to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, does the First Minister agree with me that the case for continued single market membership is growing stronger by the day? The First Minister Yes, I do. I think that the case for remaining within the European Union possibly grows stronger by the day but certainly as a minimum remaining within the single market and the customs union. We are starting to see on an almost daily basis the consequences of Brexit from the confirmation earlier this week that the European Medicines Agency and the European Banking Agency are to leave London for other European capitals to the news today about Dundee's capital of culture bid to some very real financial consequences. It was striking yesterday in the budget that the chancellor set aside more money to deal with the consequences of a Tory hard Brexit than he set aside to help the NHS with the pressures that they face. That says everything that you need to know about the work priorities of the Tory Government at Westminster. I think that as every day passes and as these consequences become more stark, that case for making sure that our country is not ripped out of the European single market will get ever more strong. Question 4, Ash Denham. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to the autumn budget. First Minister Yesterday's budget provided few measures to grow the economy, tackle inequality or invest in public services. The announcements in relation to the North Sea and ending the VAT obligation of police and fire services are certainly welcome, albeit long overdue. However, our block grant for day-to-day public spending, as I have already said, is being cut by more than £200 million in real terms next year. By 2019-20, our discretionary budget will have been reduced by £2.6 billion in real terms over the decade. Although the budget provides some consequentials, over half of those are financial transactions that the Scottish Government cannot spend on front-line public services and which then have to be repaid to the Treasury. Overall, the budget contains little to help Scottish households, businesses or public services. Ash Denham. I thank the First Minister for that answer, but note that the real terms cut to Scotland's revenue, which is a real disappointment. Yesterday, revised OBR growth figures underlined the fact that Tory austerity is failing. On top of that, average wages are set to fall and taxpayers will pay through the nose for Brexit. When Scotland badly needs growth in our economy, is it not time for real investment, with no strings attached, and more powers for this Parliament to grow our economy? First Minister. Yes, I agree that the more power we have in this Parliament to take our own decisions, the better it will be for people with the length and breadth of our country. The Resolution Foundation is reporting this morning—this is a serious point that I know that the Tories will not want to listen to, but they really should listen to it. The Resolution Foundation this morning said that average pay will not return to its pre-crisis level until 2025. That is 17 years after the pay squeeze began. Of course, in the budget yesterday, there was not one single extra penny confirmed to help to lift public sector pay. That is the priority that we see the Westminster Government attach to the living standards of people across our country. We will use next month's budget to put forward an alternative approach that allows us to invest in our public services, but also allows us to protect those on the lowest incomes in Scotland from the impact of the Tory cuts that are biting so hard. Murdo Fraser. Thank you. The Chancellor announced yesterday that Scottish Police and Fire Services can now reclaim VAT, thanks to pressure from 13 Scottish Conservative MPs and Westminster. Will the First Minister now accept that this was a mess entirely of the SNP's own making, that they went into the Police and Fire Services mergers with their eyes fully open, fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and that she would now like to take the opportunity to thank the Conservative Chancellor for clearing up the SNP's mess for them? I increasingly just love it when Murdo Fraser gets to his feet. It's like Christmas come early every week. Let me remind the chamber what one Murdo Fraser—I'm assuming that it's the same one that we've just heard from there—said about a Police and Fire VAT refund, not eons ago, but just a matter of weeks ago. On 31 October 2017 Murdo Fraser got to his feet in the chamber and said, "...there is no justification for a VAT refund for Police and Fire." I think that it was really, really, really cruel of his Tory colleagues at Westminster to prove him so completely and utterly wrong, but then he is often completely and utterly wrong. Yesterday the Tories were forced to concede that they've been wrong all along on the issue. See this argument? It's all because the SNP pursued a policy of a single police force. You know the flaw in that argument for the Tories? The Tories proposed a single police force as well, so this argument that it's all a mess caused by SNP policy falls apart when the Tories are exactly the same policy all along. The fact is that the Tories knew that they were in the wrong in an indefensible position, but by refusing to do the right thing until they somehow thought they could wring some party political advantage out of it just shows how small-minded and partisan the Tories are, and it reflects really badly on them. My final point is that having conceded that it is wrong to take that out of the pockets of our emergency services, it's not enough just to fix it for the future. Let's have the £140 million that's been nicked from our emergency services back. James Kelly Thank you. The First Minister will be aware of the publication of a report from COSLA last week demonstrating how the SNP Government of systematically penalised local government resulting in £1.5 billion of cuts and 15,000 job losses. It's not just the figures, it's the impact in local communities, the day centres closed and the libraries have disappeared from local areas. The First Minister has fudged taxation all the way through this session. When will she finally show some leadership and produce a budget that will use the powers of the Parliament, deliver progressive taxation and give a fair funding to local government in order that we can protect local jobs and local services? The First Minister James Kelly asked me when we will set out our position on tax and all the other matters. The answer to that question, which I think he knows, is on 14 December, when we publish our budget in this chamber. He talks about local government funding, which is a very important aspect of our budget considerations. We, in the budget for this financial year, took steps to protect the spending power of local government. In fact, we increased the spending power of local government considerably, and we will continue to do everything that we can to protect front-line services. I say again what I have said previously to Labour members who stand up in this chamber and raise the issue of local government budgets. We also last year gave local councils the option of increasing their council tax up to a maximum of 3 per cent to help with those pressures. The only councils across Scotland who thought that they had enough money so that they did not have to do that were Labour councils. We have Labour standing up in here calling for more money, but its own councils ignore them by refusing to use the options that they have to raise more money. It seems that Labour councils listened to James Kelly just as closely as Kezia Dugdale did when he told us that she was not allowed to go to the jungle. 5. Alexander Stewart To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to the recently published internal staff survey from the Scottish Ambulance Service, which suggests that work pressure had affected the health of more than half of the respondents. The Scottish Ambulance Service staff, who responded to more than 740,000 incidents last year, provided an exceptional service across Scotland, often in the most difficult of circumstances. Yesterday, the health secretary met the chief executive of the Scottish Ambulance Service to set out our expectations for the support for the health and wellbeing of staff. Pauline Howey, who is the chief executive of the Ambulance Service and her senior team, is considering the findings of the survey in detail. They are clear that they will be taking additional steps to address the issues that have been raised. I thank the First Minister for that response, but back in June 2008, when you were the health secretary, you gave the Scottish Ambulance Service one month to bring forward plans to end single staffing of its emergency ambulances and said at that time that, I quote, "...take action to eliminate rostered single manning." A freedom of information request shows that last year it occurred over 2,200 times. What reassurances can the First Minister give to staff on the front line that it will continue and that it will not be put in this intolerable position? The First Minister Of course, single crewing of ambulances should happen only in exceptional circumstances, and we will continue to monitor that closely with the Scottish Ambulance Service. If you look at the figures for the most recent quarter of April to June 2017, the number of single crewed shifts increased slightly by 28 shifts from the previous quarter, but it remained 1.3 per cent of the total shifts carried out over that period, and we will continue to work closely with the Ambulance Service to ensure that that only happens genuinely in exceptional circumstances. We are currently, of course, committed to supporting the service to train 1,000 additional paramedics over this Parliament to further help to reduce pressure on A and E and to support primary care transformation, and that work is under way. Those who work in our Ambulance Service, as I said, do an exceptional job. We all recognise that it is one of the most challenging jobs that anybody could do. The Scottish Ambulance Service has an employee assistance programme, which includes counselling for staff who witness traumatic events, therapeutic services and fast-track access to physiotherapy, for example, but as part of their consideration of the survey, the Scottish Ambulance Service will be considering what further steps they need to take to give the appropriate support to those who work for them. Iain Gray To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Government plans to take to support students in light of the call in the report a new social contract for students for them to be given a minimum income entitlement of £8,100 per year. The Government is committed to ensuring that all students, especially those in our most deprived communities, are provided with the financial support that they need to succeed. That indeed is why we commissioned the independent review of student support, and I want to take this opportunity to thank Jane Angaria and the members of the review board for all their hard work on this over the past year. The report sets out a number of recommendations that would fundamentally change the way students are supported, so it is only right that we now take some time to consider those recommendations in detail and, of course, as part of current and future budget processes. We will set out our next steps in due course. Iain Gray The key question for the Government's response is, of course, the balance that they strike between grants and loans. The review's central recommendation is disappointing, and it would embed the cuts to grants for university students, which this Government made in 2013, and would yet again increase student indebtedness. Those debt levels have already doubled under this Government, in spite of their promise to dump the debt, with poorer students coming out with the highest debt. Will the First Minister now listen to NUS Scotland and shift the balance of student support back towards higher grants, rather than just more debt? The First Minister Let me start by saying on a point of consensus that I think that Iain Gray is right that that is perhaps not the only key point, but one of the key points relevant to the Government's response to this report. As I said, we will respond in due course after carefully considering the recommendations. I should say, though, that while I do not negate the point that Iain Gray is making about the importance of that point, we see a situation now where total student support is up. We see average student support per student now up, more full-time, higher education students than ever are receiving support. Almost 3,000 additional students qualified for a non-repayable bursary or saw their funding increase last year, and that is a result of the decision that we have already taken to raise the income threshold for bursaries. We paid out more in grants and bursaries last year than in the previous year. That is the record that we have. We want now to look at how we build on that. The final point that I would make is that, while understanding absolutely the issues raised by student debt—indeed, that is one of the issues why we are so determined to keep tuition fees out of Scotland—we have a situation where average student loan debt in Scotland is significantly lower than it is in any other part of the UK. In England, average student loan debt is £32,220. In Scotland, it is £11,740. We have work to do, and that report provides us with the basis to do that work. It is also important to recognise that, in many respects, students in Scotland get much greater support than they do elsewhere in the UK. Julian Martin Can the First Minister outline how the Scottish Government will take forward its commitment to raise the student loan repayment threshold and reduce the payment term? The First Minister We are actively considering how to take that forward. Now that was a manifesto commitment that we made at the last election, which is something that we had already committed to even before the report that was published this week. We will shortly set out the detail of how we take forward that particular commitment. Neil Findlay I declare an interest in my wife and daughter's work at St John's hospital. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is to concerns that any waiting times at St John's hospital have been misrepresented. The First Minister I think that the concern of the Government is reflected in the action that the health secretary has taken. Last week, she ordered an independent review into concerns around waiting times practices and staff pressure at St John's hospital emergency department. That followed instructions that the health secretary gave to NHS Lothian to examine the claims that had been raised with her by a whistleblower. That confirmed certain areas of concern and, as a result, she asked the Scottish Academy of Medical Royal Colleges to undertake an external review to investigate. That review will report back to the health secretary early in the new year. Neil Findlay This week, the Health and Sport Committee heard from representatives of A&E staff, from doctors, allied health professionals and nurses, about how staff shortages and cuts are impacting on staff morale, the culture across the NHS and, ultimately, patient care. At St John's, I hear repeatedly from staff who desperately want to do their job well but who are unable to do so because there are not enough of them. The latest revelations about the misreporting of waiting times appear to be yet more evidence of that. In the forthcoming budget, will the First Minister ensure that the NHS is fully funded, staffed appropriately and safely, and that those who care for us are paid a fair wage for their efforts? The First Minister I agree with Neil Findlay's comments about the importance of the work that those working in our NHS generally but, perhaps particularly, those working in our emergency departments do. I recognise—I readily recognise both as a former health secretary and as a First Minister now—that, just as a citizen of this country, the pressure that those working in our health service are under has always been a job that has meant people working under pressure but, with the ageing population, we know that those pressures are increasing. That is why we have increased the budget of the front-line health service, an additional £3 billion over the life of this Government so far. It is why we had the most extensive commitment at the election last year to additional funding in the NHS of any party over the lifetime of this Parliament. We see additional people working within our health service, as well as additional funding. We need to see continued reform of how health services work and how they work in conjunction with social care services. We will continue in the budget that will come forward in a couple of weeks' time and beyond to take the best possible decisions to make sure that our health service has the support that it needs. Jeremy Balfour That concludes First Minister's questions. Jeremy Balfour It leads the chamber of the public, but can I just clarify that Dad Schwarz's funding cut came from third-party organisations, not from national government, either here or at Westminster? That concludes First Minister's questions. We now move to members' business in the name of Ivan McKee. On the day of the imprisoned writer, we will just take a few moments for members and ministers to change seats.


Welcome to nursing school explain and this interview series with a first time here we have today a hospice nurse named Jocelyn who's been doing hospice nursing since she graduated from nursing school hi Jocelyn. Hi Professor bills thanks for having me. It's so good to see you I am so proud of you and all that you have accomplished. So when did you graduate. So I graduated, we finished in September of 2020. We were, we got kind of delayed because of COVID but luckily we still finished in the same year. So it's been about a year and a half then for you. And right, other than hospice right away so tell me how did that all happen or come about. Well, I was really fortunate to be able to do hospice with as for my preceptorship. And so I did that for a few weeks, and not long after I finished my preceptorship hospice or COVID started coming around and the shutdown ended and so when school was postponed, I called them back and asked them if I could volunteer or shadow or just get some experience while I was off schooled me, offered me a job on the spot and so I worked for them part time. And so I went out the end of nursing school and then as soon as we graduated, I came aboard full time and took the NCLEX and just started working right away. That's excellent so these connections that you're making through preceptorship and clinical assignments really tend to pay off and in your case it sure did. Yeah, I did. And I'm so glad I just I'm very fortunate that we had a preceptorship in hospice because I always liked that field and I just got, you know, got really lucky with that. And you said you work there while you were still in school. What exactly was your job description or what did you do during that time. I was working part time at the office I was helping basically answer phones, helping the nurses support the nurses with triage calls and ordering equipment. I was just watching and seeing how it worked around the office so I got a good idea of how the business was ran and I kind of got it to see that perspective. In addition to the clinical side so it was really beneficial for me to just even be in that atmosphere and kind of soak in everything that I could. It sounds like there was a lot more administrative tasks that you got to do initially that kind of got you started on that journey. So, and I know that you've said this from the beginning that you always liked kind of like the out of the hospital nursing aspect more than in hospital acute care. What is it that drew you to that setting. So, I've always had I've always wanted to work in the medical field, but what I really like about hospice is just the holistic approach to treatment and how their philosophies are treating like patients based on their individual environment, meaning what their home is like what their lifestyles like what their family life is like, and being able to cater your treatment and therapy to each individual is just really special to me and I think that I love people in general so it's very, very much particularly I guess, in terms of, get you know adapting to other people and kind of making just treating people based on their own individual needs. And make such a big difference if you actually see them in their natural environment in their home surrounded by their family members, rather than the acute care setting where everything is like the hospital dictates how their day to day goes but at home really the patient kind of dictates more of how that day to day goes and you're able to support them there. Can you kind of walk me through a day of a hospice nurse so what does your typical day look like. The beginning of your day starts with looking at who your patients are going to be for the day, giving them kind of setting a schedule, a window a time window for each patient, usually I give them a two hour window so I'll make phone calls to my patients. Good morning, and let them know I'm going to be there between 10 and 12 or, and I'll tell the other patients different gaps that way I have some sort of leeway depending on how long I take at each person's house.  When I go to do a visit I come in and see the patient take their vital signs and kind of get a brief overview on how they're, how they've been doing over the, like since I last saw them. And if their medications are working if their pain is being managed. If there's any changes that have been happening how they're sleeping how they're eating, and just basically checking on the family to how they're handling it if everything's going alright if they need any extra support. You know, a lot of times it's, it's hard to my guilty pleasure is kind of, you know, engaging a lot of conversations with families because you get close to people, and you get to know them and I have to like remind myself to, to move on and get on to the next patient but it's really just helping people manage their own, helping family members manage taking care of their loved ones, especially during this hard time for them it's it's it's a hard time. People are not usually prepared for the end of life and I think it's a, it's rewarding to just relieve a lot of stress that families face. Sounds very interesting. And then you said you have a certain caseload so you see the same patients over and over again on a pretty regular interval or how does that typically work. So as a case manager, right now I'm per diem but when I was working as a case manager, you usually have a caseload between 12 to like 15 patients, and you'll spread them out throughout the week so some patients are once a week some patients are twice a week. And when you plan it out nicely, you can see patients on the same, you know, you see the same patients on the same days of the week. So on this on Tuesdays and Thursdays you see these certain patients and vice versa. And so you have to schedule it that way and then in between, you know you handle all of your administrative duties such as, you know, ordering refills, talking to the doctor, making medication changes on communicating with your chaplain and your social worker because it's a whole team aspect for each individual patient. Absolutely I think I mean everywhere right nursing is a team effort but in hospice even more so because you really rely on these. Other disciplines to help you support the patient as best as they can in this very important phase of their life. Well sounds like it's a it's a really good fit for you and you found your your way right out of nursing school and sinking back now and I know that the, the time that you graduated was very special let's say that because of covert and everything and so you certainly showed a lot of flexibility there with along with all your, your classmates, but looking back at now the transition from graduating and then into the professional nursing. What advice do you have for new grads what would you tell them that you know now that you didn't know back when you were in school. You know, I just, I feel this is, you know, during nursing school there just tends to be a lot of anxiety, negative talk that just kind of lingers around. And it's natural because nursing school is tough right for for everyone and I think sometimes that carries on to after nursing school and if I could just make a recommendation to people is to just kind of tune out. And just kind of talk or self doubt and really just go for it because as a new grad you really have nothing to lose so just putting yourself out there is the best you could do to advocate for yourself. Definitely.  And I think that really pays off no matter if you find a job.  And if you found your niche, I think it's very important to kind of pursue that meet people and put yourself out there and introduce yourself and then they see how they see how in each you are and that really benefits you in the long run. I don't know how many students in the past have actually worked at, mostly for me that the experience has been in the hospital setting. They get to know the managers and the charge nurses, and maybe a supervisor and then they get to know how they work so they know their work ethic and that they're on time and they're a team player and if you can really show that before you have that license, it's much more likely to get a job, no matter what setting it is that you that you really want to be in. So I think that worked out really well and I commend you to do in a good job because Kobe times were not easy for anybody and especially not for nursing students with all the constant changes that we had. So great. Thank you. It was definitely tough. One thing about hospice nursing that's a little different is you're very much on your own. I think I had, you know, when I finally, when I passed my NCLEX and started working full time I think I had two weeks with the nurse. And then I was on my own and I had my own caseload and of course at that time you really don't know. There's still a lot that you don't know and knowing how to be a good communicator and knowing what resources you have at hand are so important because there were so many times where I didn't know what to do and I had to call my lifelines but if you're, you know, if you're brave and independent then it goes a long way because there's just definitely a lot of autonomy with hospice nursing which I love, but it definitely takes a lot of good communication in order to even get things done and give the best care that you could possibly give. Absolutely. And I think the, the piece that you brought up about communication is important in every kind of nursing, because nobody knows everything right I still have questions I've been doing this for a long time and sometimes I still have questions I don't know what's going on so the ability to not be afraid to ask questions that's super important and just to know that it's okay not to know everything. That's why you have a healthcare team right that's why you have your physicians and your social workers and in your case the chaplains, because they might know something about the patient or what might work for them that you just don't and so being able to communicate those things among the team members and of course also with your patients is just super important and don't ever be afraid to ask for help that's that's really one of the most important takeaways I think. Definitely. So then it sounds like you know this is a very special kind of nursing that you do, but I'm sure that you have that one patient interaction that one patient that sticks in your mind. And without revealing too much information of course with HIPAA, but can you tell me about this your most memorable patient interaction. It's hard because there's so many but I'll just narrow it down to one that sticks out with me I had a patient he was one of my first patients he was a cancer patient that had was dealing with a lot of chronic pain and so when I took over his case it was it was a lot of a difficult task and getting to manage his pain medication regimen, but once we got that figured out, he went from being a very negative, you know pessimistic type of personality to person to being very pleasant and hopeful and would carving work around his house because he, you know had managed pain and I'll never forget when he told me he said you know my life has gone so much better since you came into my life because he was just able to live again and for the rest of the time and oddly enough you know I didn't end up being his nurse when when he passed away but I had established such a close bond with him and his wife, and leaving them was hard and I went to a different hospice and months later, so crazy I was driving and I just, he came to my mind, and I don't know why I just had this itch to, to message the wife and ask her. How have you guys been how's everything going, and she responded to me like oh my gosh it's so bad I wish she were here. It's like oh my gosh what's going on so I called her and she, she asked me to come over because in a state of panic and I mean I was close to them so I didn't mind it. Even though it wasn't his nurse but we were just so close and he died maybe a minute or two before I walked in that door and I feel that he, like his spirit like some and me or something to just be there for her big so it just goes to show how much hospice nursing is more just being human at the same time and I think it's, it's meaningful I think I actually saved he like carved this for me, this little like nursing hat with a like signed in put some. I'm not really religious but he put some, I think scripture down there but yeah just reminds me of like why I do what I do so it's awesome. Wow, thanks for sharing the story this is very powerful, and you know you kind of build a very special relationship with these patients and the family, and then having that strong, you know connection really helped you to be there. If not for him then for his wife when she needed you so that was going way above and beyond so I'm getting a little teary eyed over here that's a that's a very nice story thanks for sharing that. So no, I, it's, it's unexplainable just kind of right so it just goes to show just being hospice nursing is also just being human, you know. Absolutely yeah it takes it takes a special person I think to be able to do that because this is always there. But how it occurs, you can you have an influence on that right you can you can accompany the patients through this in a much better way than maybe they would be able to manage on their own and just to kind of guide them and help them through this very difficult transition, not only the patient but also the family because you know the patient is gone and whatever you believe happens after that but the family is left behind and so that's the other difficult part there. Definitely I think that our job is so important because how a person passes away isn't just experienced that day when they pass away but their family members remember that for the rest of their lives and it carries on and if you can make that moment, not very traumatic. Then that person, their family members don't have to live with that trauma for the rest of their lives like I've experienced that with personal family members and so I know how important that is to see, you know, to not live with that if you can get that support for sure. Most definitely. It sounds like there's a lot of, you know, there could be a lot of burden on the nurse to kind of go into through death on a pretty regular basis. So what do you do to maintain your sanity to keep your own self healthy, both physically and mentally and kind of balance that work life. You definitely have to, I think, especially for hospice nursing, we take home or charting because we work out of our cars. If you saw my car you'd see a whole desk set up it's I've turned it into an office itself but you, you go to you work at patients houses you work in your car under you find half of the job is finding shade and where to park. So you can do some charting. But when you get home you know sometimes they're so charting to do so it's hard to check out when you're at home and I think it's important to have kind of scheduled activities that are just not at home like exercise classes or I was doing cardio kickboxing classes for a while and I felt really good at that time or my brother does like cardio hip hop dancing and I do that once a week so just really being outside of your car and your home and doing an activity kind of really allows you to check out for a little while otherwise you're still kind of in that work mode, even when you're home sometimes. Yeah, I agree physical activity is super important to check out and especially in your case if you can just get away, you know from the usual in work environment because otherwise that's probably a stack of charts that you find at home and you're finding yourself charting until 10pm or later and so it's good that you that you're doing that that you're actually getting away and and focusing on yourself. So, yeah, I think that is one of the most important things because, you know, everywhere nursing we experience death or we can experience death but in hospice. Again, it's, it's a it's an everyday occurrence or you know maybe not every day but that's kind of like every patient in which eventually won't get there. And so because you're so close to them.  And I think you're doing a lot of good things there and you know me I am always about eat well and exercise. That's always the most important thing to do so so I commend you for that. It's, it's also, I think it's helpful in addition to checking out is relying on your team members like your social worker, especially your hospice aids and your chaplains to kind of help you by setting eyes on your patient and really engaging with them to be involved and I think that when you have other people helping you more so than just taking on most of the load yourself, it really helps a lot. You don't feel as overwhelmed, I would say with each patient. I agree yeah that teamwork we already touched on that is so important. So, thank you so much for enlightening me and the audience on hospice nursing, which is not something that we get to hear about very often but it's a very important part of nursing. And thank you for a time good luck with that and good luck with your new baby coming. Thank you so much good to see you. See you too.