this morning's session. Before we go any further, I would like to request one of us to please lead in prayer. Siddharth Kenu, would you be able to lead us? Yes ma'am. Father, we come to the throne of grace, Lord. Thank you for this day, Lord. As we are going to learn about your world, Lord, it should not be wasted, it should not go in vain, but we are learning, we are getting at APC Bible School, Lord. It will be used mightily for the Kingdom expansion, Lord, and do great works, Lord. Lord, let students and the teacher be used as a mighty vessel that is kept on the King's table, Lord, to enhance the beauty of the King's table, Lord. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Siddharth Kenu. So once again, welcome to each one of you for being here on the mentoring call. As you know, what we do here is we answer questions that, you know, different ones of us may have. These questions can pertain to the courses that we are studying right now, or it can be completely different, you know, something that you have observed and are wondering about. So you could go ahead and post your questions on the chat or even unmute your mics and ask the questions. That way, you know, our faculty is here, they will be able to answer those questions for us. So feel free. You could please go ahead and ask your questions. All right. So while we are waiting for questions to be posted, I just want to ask if there is something new, something interesting that we are learning. So if there's something new that anyone here is learning, please feel free to share it on this mentoring hour. It will be really, you know, inspiring for the others to hear from you. So anyone could be the faculty or could even be the students. So if there's something new or something interesting that you're learning. Okay. Could I, like, you know, just request one of us, maybe pass to Selena. Is there anything new that you're learning you want to share with us? Good morning, Nancy. Good morning. And good morning, all of you. Actually, I was, you know, just teaching four subjects at DPC Bible College and, you know, preparing for four of them, Christology, Systematic Theology, Puston Second Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and of course, teaching even Children's Ministry. You know, I was just thinking that, you know, if I had learned all this in, when I was in Bible College, it would have been, it would have been so good. And I was just thinking that our system in, you know, when we studied in Bible College, the courses had so many, of course, we studied a lot of things, but then it was so kind of irrelevant to, you know, really what we are going to teach and minister. We studied about different philosophies and all that, which is, it is good, it is helpful. But I was just thinking how much privileged our Bible College students are to be learning in-depth in each field, in each book of the Bible, even in theology and so much in-depth about faith, Holy Spirit, and the nature of God, and all of those things. So, I was just thinking how blessed they are and also how blessed I am because, you know, basically teaching all of these courses, I myself am learning so much, you know, and I was just thankful to God that for giving me this opportunity to learn once again, and also to be able to, you know, through the help of the Holy Spirit, minister to others. So, it's a good opportunity. And also, I was just telling my class, they were so privileged to learn all of these things because I didn't really have the privilege of learning so many things, especially we didn't have, we didn't study about the person of the Holy Spirit. We come from the traditional church where, you know, we were not even taught about the gifts of the Holy Spirit or the person in the work of the Holy Spirit then, and also in Bible College, we did not learn about the Holy Spirit. So, it's a good thank you, just thanking God for the opportunity to learn. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Pasasalina. Thank you so much for sharing from your life and your experience. Yeah, it's so true that there is so much that the students are learning and even as faculty, as we are teaching them, there's so many new things that, you know, we get to learn. So, praise God for this experience, praise God for APC Bible College. While we were hearing from Pasasalina, Siddhkindu has posted a question here on the chat for us. So, we'll take up that question. So, he says, Ma'am, when I read on something about Abrahamic religion, why are they always portrayed in different way in the Bible? Adam and Eve had two sons, but in the Quran, it is written that Adam and Eve had two sons and two daughters. So, like, what is the correct one? Please explain. Would someone like to take this up? I think we recently had a question about Adam and Eve and the, you know, number of children that they had. So, any of our faculty, would you like to take this up, please? Pasya Jakumar, could I please request you to... Yeah, I was just looking at the reference. Like, you know, in Genesis 4, we read about Cain and Abel and then we read about Seth in verse 25, Genesis 4-25. And then when we go to Genesis 5, we read about Genesis 5 and verse 4. We read about the days of Adam where we read this in verse 4. And he had sons and daughters. So, well, Adam and Eve did have many other sons and daughters, you know, according to the Word of God itself. So, well, and I think we can just go with that. Any other reference point or any other scripture, I mean, any other worldview, well, could be, we know, you know, that might have errors in it. It could be factually right on certain things. But, you know, when we look at the Word of God itself, Genesis 4 and Genesis 5 talks about the fact that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. So, I think we should just go with that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you for that. Sitkenu, I hope that answers your question. Yes, ma'am, very much. I will go to clarity, ma'am. All right, yeah. Great. Thank you. So, here again in the chat, Elisha has a question. He asks, can a believer die from a curse of a deity? So, can a believer die from the curse of a deity? That's his question. Would any of our faculty like to address this? Nancy, I'll take that question. Yes, yes, please. I'll try. Yeah. So, I think, Elisha, I just want to point you to one verse that is in Galatians 3.13. And I'll just read that out for you.  So, through this, we see that it is Christ who's purchased our freedom. He's the one who's redeemed us from the curse of the law and anything to do with its condemnation. And how? It is because he himself became a curse for us by hanging on the tree. So, as a believer, you are redeemed from every curse.  So, that's what, yeah, I'll leave it at that and open it to the rest. Thank you, Pastor Nancy. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Jean. Yes, thank you, Jean, for that. I think there's, it's quite clear. If any of the other faculty would like to add to it, you could please do so. I just wanted to add to what Jean shared to say that, the Bible also talks about different kinds of believers. In the sense, when we read Romans 8, I think we see that a believer can be carnally minded and can be spiritually minded as well. So, but then it says that, that is, I'm just reading from Romans 8 and verse 6, to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. So, you know, the thing is, if I'm a believer and if I'm intentionally walking in carnality, there's, God will always, God will always reach out, God will always, through the work of the Spirit of God in us, convict us, draws back to him. But if I choose to continue to walk in carnality, walk in, intentionally walk in sin, then I'm opening myself up to the work of the evil one. And we know that, the assignment of the evil one, which is to steal, kill and destroy. So, to be a believer, we know that we have certain things in Christ. We have the weapons, we have the armor of God. But as a believer, if I don't know how to use, if I don't know how to walk in the power of the Lord and the power of his might, be strong in the Lord and the power of his might, as we see in Ephesians 6, then, you know, unfortunately, I open myself up intentionally, if I'm walking in blatant sin. So, I just wanted to add that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, pastor. Elisha, just want to check with you if your question was answered. Okay, sorry, I'm unable to hear you. Elisha, there seems to be some issue there. If you could please mute your, okay, we saw your answer on the chat here. Thank you so much for that. All right, so we could continue. Yes, let's move on. John Paul has posted here. He says, came across one individual during campus elevate, this young boy is addicted and wants to break free. I asked some time to talk in person, but he's not comfortable in meeting in person. The reason being, he doesn't have any friends physically and all friends are through social media. So, he's not comfortable in talking in person. Should we still consider chatting or push for in-person conversation? So, Jean, would you like to address this question? Sure. Thank you. Yeah, John, so what we do see, I think what we see here one is that he somehow has even opened up to you about his addiction and has desired the need to break free. So, that in itself, I think is an extremely positive sign. However, he wants to have some anonymity, which probably is understandable. And also, there could be other, probably some other underlying issues of him meeting people in person. But if he, since he's chatted with you, I don't know how you got to know about his addiction, but nevertheless, I think he's given you a clue there that he would rather chat rather than meet in person. So, I think it would be nice to gently approach him and say that it's perfectly okay not to meet in person or meet in person when he is ready. And you would like to engage him in whatever mode he may be comfortable in. Because if there is an opening, I think we can leverage that and do it in the way that he seems most comfortable. And probably at a point of time, he may be more open for face-to-face interaction. I hope that helps, John.  So, this person came to me after campus and spoke to me on, face-to-face. And I took, he was willing to take, you know, give his number also. And when I texted him, he wanted to talk only in chat.  And also, from another point of view, saying, you know, how it could, he could take, I'm not very sure. I'm just a little confused. That's it. So, that's the reason I was asking. But yeah, if we don't have in-person opportunity, then maybe we can still go ahead with chatting. Thanks. Thank you. Maybe, John, I think you could probably ask if he would be okay for a for a conversation rather than a meet-up first. And so that, you know, the conversation is a little bit more organic and more, you know, there's a lot more that happens rather than a chat. So, I completely agree with that. So, you could probably ask that. But yeah, if that's not available, then only the medium that is, that can help him to at least share what he's going through. Maybe the intervention also will probably be limited. But nevertheless, he knows that there is someone he can approach. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Can I just say something? Yes, please. John, just a little thing, sorry, a word of caution, especially when you're doing things on chat, because at least just some recent experiences where people engage on chat, then they take all your messages and they use it against you. You know, and there are all these kinds of people. So, if I were you, I would just say, if you really need help, come and meet me. Otherwise, I'm not interested in chatting. If that person really needs help, see, you're making yourself available. You're in the same city. You're giving your time. He just has to come across and meet you, if he really wants help. I would be very cautious on engaging on chat these days, especially because I'm just seeing that, you know, people record all those, you know, they have a copy of those messages and they turn around and they use it against you and they can twist and turn and anything. So, I would be very careful. My recommendation is don't try to avoid chatting especially with people you don't know.  And, you know, we also have to be very careful with engaging with new people who come to church because of the atmosphere we're in. And I'm just thinking about, you know, the non-Christians, they can intentionally seed people into our congregations by the men or women and they come in, they pretend to be seekers. And we are very naive. We start engaging with them. And then they use all of that to turn it around against us. We have to be very careful, you know, and all of these things. So, I would suggest you make yourself available and say, look, this is the way I will do it. If you don't want to do it, if you don't want to come, you know, I'm making myself available and giving you my time. If you really want to get help, you come this way. Otherwise, if he says, no, I want to chat and all that, I would say be very careful because these days people turn around and use all these things against us, even though we are very, you know, we are sincere. But our sincerity often gets us into trouble. Then we don't operate with wisdom. So, just take that as a caution and be very careful, especially given the environment in which we are operating these days. So, Vasya, thank you so much. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you, Jean and John for that question. We have two questions here from Herbert. He asks, the first one, he says, as the Bible says, man was created by God, scientists say he came from apes and chimpanzee. Could there be some people who came from the line of Adam and others from the line of chimpanzee and apes? So, that is the first question that Herbert has. And the second one, he says, God said, let's create man in our own image. Whom was God talking to? I think he would have said, let me create man in my own image. Thanks. So, two questions here. We could take up the first question. So, I just want to request any one of our faculty to address this, please. The first question, where Herbert says, is it possible that some came from the line of Adam and then, you know, some human beings, they came from the line of chimpanzees and apes. Pastor, would you please be able to answer Herbert's question? Sorry, I can't help but laugh. Okay. So, Herbert, man was created by God, scientists say. You know, when you think of it, why would we even need a parallel process? Why would we even need a parallel process to create human beings? You know, why would we even need that? And so, I mean, the question is basically saying that there are two parallel processes through which human beings could have emerged. One is the creative process and the other one is a evolutionary process. So, first obvious question is why would you need two processes, right? Secondly, the creative process takes place instant, whereas the evolutionary process takes place over billions of years. Why would you need something like that? You know. So, thirdly, the transition in the evolutionary process, if you look at it, it's never been proven. It's never been proven. It's a hypothesis, it's a theory, but it's never been proven, right?  So, really, the evolutionary process, it's a huge theory or a hypothesis that's not been proven. So, I would just say that don't waste your time on it. And yeah. So, we talked about it in our course on apologetics. So, you could refer to that. When you want to think about this whole evolutionary process, is it legitimate? Is it valid? Could it be possible? The second one is very simple. When God said, let us create man, he would just start referring to the Trinity, the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, right? So, that's the community, that's the us, the Triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit saying. So, he wasn't talking to anybody else, he was talking to himself. And that's within the Trinity. Is it okay? Thank you, Pastor. Herbert, I hope your questions have been answered. Okay, yes. So, he says yes on the chat. Thank you, Herbert. Elisha has posted the next question here and he says, during the last two Sundays service, Pastor Ashish mentioned something about APC reaching out to the nations. I want to know if there are any plans to reach Africa. So, Pastor, I think it's directed to you. Would you like to? Okay, yeah. Elisha, the answer is yes. That's part of our vision statement to be a voice to the nation and to the nations. And of course, all the nations in Africa, all are included. I'm just making a few statements here because this is kind of a private college. I'm just to let you know that we are looking into how to do this. Meaning, how do we help establish churches and ministries outside of India? That's been always a part and a challenge. And because practically, we have a limitation, meaning from India, we're not allowed to send money outside to outside India. So, what we will be doing is we will set up something in the US called APC World Mission. So, we've actually registered a new domain called APC World Missions. And the beautiful thing is just recently, somebody's come forward to make a contribution of close to 100,000 US dollars towards our missions work all across India, not India, outside India missions work. So, we will get that set up. And then from there, people help and assist churches. I mean, the work during ministry outside of India. So, that's the plan. We're just working on it. And you know, once things are actually, nothing is in place right now other than a domain that's been registered. We have to incorporate in the US. Money's already been committed. More money will come. And then from there, you know, we have to see how God leads us. What we have discussed and I've discussed this with Pastor Nancy, I think last year or year before last year, we will have a process by which students will graduate from Bible College just to give you a heads up. All this will be put in place Nancy and I are discussing these things. A process will be put in place where students who graduate from APC Bible College can submit their proposal of the work they want to do. Example, suppose I'm a student living in, you know, South Africa or whichever country in the world doesn't matter. And I've graduated from APC Bible College, then I can, and I want to plant a church in my city or my country or whatever. I submit a proposal and we will review it. And a lot has to, a lot depends on our relationship with that student, you know, so we observe the students over three years as students study, but as we observe them, you know, we see how they are interacting and how they are, you know, we can get to know. So that's a big part of it. Then from the proposal and you will learn in your third year how to do this, how to, you know, when we talk about urban missions and all that, you will learn how to go about planning. So we will study that proposal. And then based on that, we will, you know, decide whom all we're going to help outside India. Within India, it's a little different. Outside India, this is how we've been talking and discussing. And I think before this year ends, we should be getting all this together. Nancy knows that we have, she's already written up some content. So if you're going to put all this together so that we'll be ready, and then we will officially announce it. And then, so that's the plan for doing work outside of India. It's coming together. It will come together. Yeah. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you for providing clarity on that. And Ilasha, I hope your question's been answered. If you're having any issues with the audio that you could please type here on the chat. Yes, Pastor. Yes, my question is answered. And then I think we are all praying that whatever plans that APC and the Bible College has for graduate students to help spread the gospel across the nations, God will bless that plan and make it fruitful. You'll be ready to join when the plan is set in motion. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ilasha. Okay. We have Herbert who has posted something on the chat. I will read it for us. Okay. So he says, good brother Ilasha. Someone yesterday was asking me that you can see other pastors come from abroad and come to preach when your pastor's coming. Indeed, the faculty try and pay us a visit. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Herbert. So yeah, we'll see how God leads us. So thank you so far for the questions, the comments, for the sharing that we had initially. So if there are any more questions, please continue to put them across. Our faculty is here to take them up. Right. While we wait for more questions, we had Pastor Selena who shared with us what she's learning, the new things that God is teaching her. So I want to open that question up to all of us. Anyone else also would like to share anything new that you're learning, God is teaching you, you could please share that with us. Okay. Pastor Jaikumar, could I ask you? Yeah, I see. Just one quick point. Just reading through Colossians and when we read through Ephesians, we see that we are exalted to be strong in the Lord and the power of His might. It talks about the unanimous power of God, the supernatural power of God, that we have access to and to be strong in it really. It's like God giving us permission and saying, this is what is made available for you and not just tasted in a little measure, but I want you to be strong in it. And that's such an open invitation for everyone as believers to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might go beyond our natural strength and ability, which is really amazing. It's an invitation for all of us. So it's something that we can embrace as our new identity, as new creations. Say, this is what God wants for me and not to be averse to the supernatural, not to be averse to the supernatural power of God, you know, because sometimes we see other, you know, maybe the views of it, maybe the, you know, and then we kind of pull away from that. The other thing that we see is also in Colossians that when Paul prays a prayer, so he says the same thing, strengthen with all might, and I'm just reading Colossians 1 and verse 11, strengthen with all might according to His glorious power for all patience and long suffering with joy. You know, it goes in line with what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14, verse, you love and desire spiritual gifts, but here the supernatural power of God, the unanimous power of God, strengthening the believer to walk in patience and long suffering with joy and efficiency. We see that, you know, the power of God, supernatural power of God that we are, you know, and it talks about the battle, the spiritual battle for which we are strengthened. So it's amazing, you know, the supernatural power of God, both for character and for, you know, the works, works of God. So, yeah, I just wanted to share that. Thanks. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you so much for sharing from your journey and what you're learning, you know, in your life. We praise and thank God for that. And it's really refreshing to learn this. Ataisha, you have raised your hand. Please go ahead. Did you have a question? Hi, everyone. Good morning. You're fine. Hi, good morning. Pastor Shear Kamar was finished. Jay Kamar, sorry. Okay. What am you asked a question about? What is it to a learning new? I am learning about balance because I've seen and personally experienced sometimes being burnt out when you're taken on too much and also involved in ministry and family work.   We're supposed to be in God full-time, but meaning as a career, right? So I am learning balance to schedule myself better, better time management because I was very poor at time management, you know. And I am learning that to the help of the Holy Spirit to better manage myself. So balance everything. And it's so funny that Pastor Jay Kamar shared a coalition scripture that is reflecting on that as well, you know. So I am learning that to sum it up. Thank you. Thank you, Aisha. Thank you so much for sharing from your experiences and your learning. Yeah, bless to hear that. We continue to remain open for questions or even, okay, Sid Kenu. Sid Kenu, please go ahead, Sid Kenu. Ma'am, I have a question. Can you please open your mind? Like the thing is, what I was thinking, like God, He's a mighty, like He's mighty. He created heavens and the earth. He is so powerful. Then why He needs, like why He needs angel? Why He needs man? Like what I was thinking, my question is that He knows the future, like what's going to happen, what is in the past, He knows everything about it. Then why God created man? Like man betrayed Him, man betrayed Him by eating the fruit. Then in the time of Noah, a flood came. And after that, and before that also, like Lucifer, he was one of the best angel. Then he also betrayed Jesus. He also betrayed the Father. God is knowing everything, like God is also knowing that this is going to happen. Then why God is creating that kind of a scenario, like it is going to happen. Okay, yes, Sid Kenu, we could hear your question. I don't know if you got interrupted in between. Hello, yes, yes. Yes, Sid Kenu, go on. Now what I'm trying to say is like, God knows everything. He knows everything, what's going to happen in the future. Then why, like He's creating, like He created humans. And He also knew when He created the humans, He knows that these people will betray Me. And when He created Lucifer, He, like, God knows everything, what is going to happen in the future. And God might be also knowing that Lucifer is there, He will also betray Me. Then why He created these beings and got betrayed? Then He's bringing the flood to teach them again. Okay, yes, Sid Kenu, thank you, thank you. Yeah, got your question there. So what Sid Kenu is saying is that God has foreknowledge of the things that can go wrong and you know, the creation that can betray Him. And yet He chose to create them and then you know, work on their redemption. Why did God have to do this? So that is his question. Would any of our faculty like to address this question, please? Pastor Paul, any thoughts on this question? Yes, sure, Pastor Nancy. Sid Kenu, I'll just answer the first part of the question, why God created man. And we've been covering this in the Covenants, we were studying that God is a God of relationships. And even when we look at, you know, the reason He created man was because He wanted to have a relationship, right?  We also look at, you know, in the cross, Christ crucified before the foundations of the world. It was, God knew what are the things that are going to happen. But the wonderful thing is God gives us an opportunity, as human beings, as people, God gives us an opportunity to, you know, get involved in that relationship, meaning to join that relationship that He, the reason He created us was to worship Him, to have a relationship with Him. So He gives us that opportunity. And as you said, you know, because of the enemy, there is this distancing between God and man. But the answer to your question on, you know, God already knows, so I think maybe any other faculty can please take that up. I just wanted to share that first portion of your question. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Pastor Paul. Would anyone else like to add to what Pastor Paul just shared? Just a little thought here. Yeah. So Sid Kinnu, just let's, you know, if you look at an example, suppose, you know, just think about an athlete who wants to win a long distance race, right? Like a marathon, right? The athlete, his goal is, he wants to win the marathon. But in order to achieve that goal, he has to go through a lot of challenges, challenges, meaning he has to practice so much, he has to tire, you know, he runs maybe, you know, 10, 20 kilometers in the morning, 10, 20 kilometers in the evening, every day, five days a week, six days a week. Along the journey, he may get in, have injuries. He may have different challenges, but he doesn't give up. He keeps, he goes through all of that for one reason. He wants to win the marathon. But the journey is not a simple journey. It's very intense, very hard. So you can just imagine, now, somebody looking at the, at this athlete, they say, what's wrong with him? Why is he doing this? Why is he running 20 kilometers in the morning, 20 kilometers, you know, in the evening, every day, he is going through so many injuries, he's go, why is he doing this? No, we may not understand, but inside his heart, he has a passion. His one passion is, I have to win the gold medal for the marathon. That's his passion. It's hard to so passion. He's willing to go through all of this hardship, all through all the injuries. He's willing to go through all of that because he's going after his, this one goal. Now that's just a small example. So what was the heart of what's in the father's heart of family, community, right? That's his desire. So he created angels and angels are his, you know, messengers and yeah, but he, he, he wanted something more than that. He wanted sons and daughters. So there are angels who are there assigned to do different things and it is including worship and so on. And then there are another set of creative beings. So with whom he can have family. So man was created for a different reason than angelic beings. So they're all created for a reason, but the reasonings, the reason behind all of this is different. So God knew, God knew that there is going to be all, there's going to be the fall, there's going to be, you know, Lucifer is going to do this and man is going to do this and all of that. So there's going to be all these things happening in the journey, but God is after something and he's willing to go through this journey in order to achieve that. Is that okay? Does it make sense? Thank you, pastor. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, pastor. Thank you, Siddhkanu. Pastor Paul also for sharing your insights. So we have about seven minutes left. I think we can accommodate a question or two. If anyone else has questions, please feel free. Go ahead. You can ask them. Yes. Deepak has two questions here on the chat for us. He says, does the Bible tell specifically about what happens to a person who commits suicide? His second question, how to minister when we come across families of such a person? So they are related. So it's about, you know, whether the Bible has something to say about a person, like what happens to a person who commits suicide, and then how do you minister to the family of such a person? Again, I leave it open to our faculty. Anyone could please pick it up and answer Deepak's question. Okay. I would like to request Jean. Jean, could you share your thoughts on this, please? Thank you. So I think I'll look at question two, and I'll leave question one maybe for Pastor to answer. Now, this is always a very difficult situation when families lose a person to suicide, especially if they are believers, because the question is about one taking off their own life, giving up their own life when it is evident that God is the one who gives life and he is the one who takes away that life as well. But ministering to families is to minister in complete love and no judgment, and to just be in a place of support and comfort and strength. We've had, yes, of course, families asking about whether individuals who are believers who committed suicide would go to heaven because they've taken on their own life. It is at that time, you know, we are focused more on helping them see the love and the grace of God through the hard situation and to help these families come outside of the trauma and the very many questions that they have. So I personally have found that a really difficult situation to handle, although I've never come across someone who's a believer who's committed suicide, but definitely those who have been unbelievers, but just bearing their burden, sharing their pain alongside with them, not being seated in judgment for what has happened, but helping them through that trauma and that recovery and taking them through the grief that they feel, which you would do for anyone who is bereaved, just being able to focus on the love of God and the sovereignty of God through those difficult situations. Yes, Nancy, I think I'll leave it open to someone else to answer the first question. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Jean. Paster, would you like to address the first part of Deepak's question? Sure. So the Bible doesn't specifically say anything about suicide in the sense of somebody taking their own life. I've heard some people use the Scripture in Revelation 29 as though it was referring to suicide, but it's not. They were using Revelation 20. I'm going to look at that first here. 21 and verse 8 where it says, but the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, etc. They will not basically end up in the lake of fire. So they use the word cowardly to refer to people who commit suicide, but that's not it. We can't say that and that's not conclusive. So the answer question, the Bible doesn't specifically talk about suicide, but at least our position is that if a believer commits suicide, that person will still go to heaven because the person commits suicide just because, usually it's because of tremendous emotional pressure. People could be going to different life situations, financial laws and this various things which kind of pushes them over the edge. So even if that person's a believer and they're going through something that really pushes them to take this drastic step, that doesn't mean they're going to lose their salvation, internal salvation just because they gave in to the pressure of that hopelessness or despair or whatever that emotional thing they were going through because we are saved by grace. So anyway, so does the Bible say anything about suicide? No. Will a believer lose their salvation if they commit suicide? No, we don't. At least I don't think so. I don't believe so. I'm convinced that they are saved to the uttermost just because they make that step. Doesn't mean they will lose their salvation. And so that becomes a point where we can encourage people, family members saying, okay, for whatever reason they committed, they took the step, but we know where their spirit is. We know that they are with Jesus in heaven. Okay. I hope that helps. Thanks. Thank you, pastor. And thank you, Deepak, for that question. I hope you've got your answers because we've run out of time. We'll have to close right here. I'd like to request, John Paul, John, could you please lead us in prayer and we wrap up this morning's mentoring hour. Sure. Thank you. Thank you for this time of learning. Thank you for all the questions that have been discussed today, O God. We pray, O God, that we would continue to grow with you, understanding what you want to speak to us, O God. We submit the rest of the class into your hands. We pray, O God, that we would walk with you. We would be able to listen to your voice, God. Thank you. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for connecting on the call.


O'Shea, I want to start off the court and talk a little bit about the vlog because I find it fascinating. First of all, where did that passion start? You take stills too when you're in the cities. Where did this start for you? Honestly, I took a trip to Italy this summer and I didn't have a camera back then. I was using my phone stuff. I just felt like we do so much interesting stuff like you know traveling and being around a team. I've logged a little bit back when we had the bubble like years ago in Orlando. That's when I first started and learned how to edit and what not. I learned a little bit about cameras but I stopped for a long time and then I just kind of wanted to pick it up again thinking about all the stuff that we were going to do and accomplish this season. How do you decide when to film and what to film? I mean my vlogs are more like my daily life stuff. So you know whenever I have the urge to film I just pick the camera up and just whatever I catch that day is what goes in the vlog. I never really plan much. When we go on trips that's kind of when it's most interesting because fans want to see how traveling is and what we do in different cities. And those are the ones I enjoy because I get to see different parts of the city that we go to. It's my daily lives. I just pick up whenever I feel like vlogging or whatever. The road is really when I have the most time to do those things as well. Who likes being filmed the most? Honestly Delano. Anytime I have the camera on him he always has something to say. JT likes more of the pictures. He always pulls for a picture. I don't think I ever caught him off guard yet. He's always just camera ready. Is that a goal? No, no, no, no. I like to make sure everybody knows that the camera is there. I'd like to announce it on the plane or if I'm in the locker room. Just so you know not trying to be that guy. That's fair. That's what I was going to say next is who likes it the least. Who runs away every time? Svi. Yeah, he hates it. He always says stop filming me, bro. Stop filming me. Joe Mazzullo would have been my guest right there. Yeah, I think I've only recorded him like twice. But whenever he sees it he like asks me questions like are you really recording this right now? And I'm like yes bro, that's what I do. I have more questions about Joe but that'll come later. For the vlog you sat in on a couple of media sessions. Juan and Dallas you sat with us in the press conference room and then also in some scrums when we were in Sacramento. What'd you think? Yeah, the reporting stuff is not for me. I can't think of like questions. I mean there's only a couple questions to ask for okay but that's not for me. You got any tips, right? It's harder than it looks, isn't it? It's harder than it looks, you know. You don't want to ask the same question that was just asked. You don't want to ask a dumb question. And you got to think of something that's actually going to get a decent answer out of somebody. So I'm like yeah, no. You did ask Jaylen about dunking and what goes through his mind when he's in the air. What do you think about him in the dunk contest? Oh no, I don't know what type of dunker he is. In-game dunker. I feel like I'm the same way. And that doesn't translate? No, no, it doesn't translate at all.  Like last year, Julius Randall did three-point contest. You know, business being there. Not saying he's not a good shooter but like it's different when you're in-game and when you're supposed to just sit there and shoot, shoot, shoot. You know? And like dunkers like that. Like JB's an in-game dunker like adrenaline in the crowd. Something gets him going.  But to like have what is it, 30 seconds or three tries to it. And to come in cold too.  That doesn't seem like the best idea. No, that's what I'm saying. Like there's dunkers and then there's in-game dunkers. It's a little different. Fair enough. Back to Joe. He told us recently that he likes to or tries to talk to every guy every day for a couple of minutes. What are those conversations like? You know, me and him, I feel like we like to joke around a lot. I like to joke around a lot. He's not like he's serious at times, but you know Joe. He's not really serious all the time. He comes off pretty serious to us. Yeah. But I don't know. Most of the stuff that we talk about is always like, you know, kind of, if it's basketball wise, it's, you know, how can I do something better? I'll ask that question. How can I do something better? Where can I fit in more? Like what do you see? But other than that, we just talk about random stuff. You know, I feel like that's helped me a lot. Feel more confident to go out to him if I feel anything. And him as well, to come to me if he sees anything. Just building that relationship, I think it's a good thing that he's doing, you know, trying to talk to everybody because, you know, it's hard in the flow of the season.  So him doing that, I think really helps. Shifting to basketball, he did just mention. He feels like you were one of the guys knew this season who has really earned the trust of the coaches and your teammates. What's enabled that? For me, I think it's just really focusing on, like throughout the game, you know, focusing on where I could fit in and not just hoping that I get a chance, you know, because once I'm out there, like it's easy to fall victim to like thinking, oh, I'm not getting the ball or I'm just running up and down. But I really try to like insert myself into the game because, you know, it's only going to benefit everybody else and me as well. I can't just, if I'm not doing that, they're playing like four and five, five and four, you know, if I'm just a body out there. And I think me being real like attentive and asking questions is really, you know, like you said, game that trust. And yeah, I mean, it's cool to hear that, you know, he feels that way.  He also pointed out though, your learning curve is pretty steep there because you play with all different groups anytime you're out there. And you never know who you're going to be out there with. How challenging is that? It's tough. It's tough. And, you know, that's one of the things we talk about. And he understands, you know, just been around basketball for a very long time. So he understands that side of it, you know, it's never easy for someone to go in there with guys you haven't played with. But, you know, that's what we have practice like today. And the other practice we had a couple of days ago where, you know, he makes lineups like that where in game, he knows that we had a practice to go over it. And that stuff also helps, you know. But it's tough.  You talk about the mindset you have to have when you're on the floor. Is that a big shift for you? Is that something that you've had to, I mean, coming from Indiana, where you were a starter at points in your career? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Changing your whole role, kind of not the way that I play, but just the role in general. Yeah, it's tough. It's definitely a, like you said, a learning curve and something that I've gotten good at, you know, kind of started off a little slow, but gotten a lot better and still getting better at it. But like I said before, you know, it's basketball and this is what I do. It's what I love to do. And yeah, it's just going to keep getting better, I feel. Mentally as well with the trade deadline coming on Thursday, what is this time like for you and then for the team as a whole? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like for me personally, I can't speak on anyone else, but for me personally, I feel like I've gotten to the point where things happen and things are going to happen, whether we like it or not. I've seen, you know, I've been drafted, been cut, playing the G League, you know what I'm saying? I've done all that. So right now, for me, it's just like, all right, stay ready, stay healthy, and play when I get a chance. So I can't speak on anyone else. I don't know how you know, it's a feeling, but for me, that's kind of how I look at it. Obviously, I want to be here. This is where I want to be playing with these guys and have a potential chance to do something great, but at the end of the day, I can't control what else happens. You chose to be here this summer. The next opportunity to play is Wednesday against the Atlanta Hawks, who have won four of their last five are playing much better. As of late, what have you seen from them? Trey's really doing this thing. I feel like he's been a top player all season, but now, like you said, they won four of the last five. They're really winning games, really showing teams that, you know, they're kind of clicking and figuring it out. But, you know, sorry, we've been a top team in the league all year. So we just got to go in there with that mindset and, you know, remember that that's who we are. Knowing that it's going to be a challenging game. We're not just going to walk over them. They're a really good team. They're a lot better than the last time we played them. A lot of the other old guys are playing really well. So that's something that we got to know. It's not going to be an easy game. And we have today and tomorrow to prepare for that. Tomorrow morning to prepare for that. And I think, like I said, today was a good practice going over what they do. So yeah, just knowing that, like I said, it's not going to be easy. You just got to be ready for it. Okay. Thank you. Good luck. For sure. Thank you. Presented by your New England four dealers. Built for America. Built Ford Proud.


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Lucci like who is that and everybody you know you said man she goes so hard yeah man everybody check it man check it man about to go down man real talk man so in the building baby yeah yeah hold on hold on bring that back man stop playing man start it man pull it back one more time just one more time everybody go down man exo in the building okay he told me come get the mic and I showed up like what the deal what you need here I am they limb you need a queen here I am I hopped out of the top top and they never stay never chill don't ask me cuz I never will I'm upgrade in better deals I'm coming down like I said a wheels coming down like your bottom lip you don't know me bitch I'm a trip he told me come get the mic you know I'm a fool when I let it rip I ain't never gonna let him down he turn it up when I come around way up way out of bounds flying in and out a lot of time that's up like Cardi B yeah this nigga on store to me narrowly up in here ripping this bitch and I ain't gonna stop till it's time to leave ain't gonna stop to the take-off pop ain't gonna stop til I take you out yeah that nigga done hiked you up but don't let that shit get you ma man check it exo in the building it's going down nigga for real so so just just tell us what what do you think about how do you process his music so when I do yeah yeah when you do it like what's the process like I just need to hear the beat and know the subject that's it the subject we're talking about and let me vibe with the beat the beat is it's the energy how long does it take you to different times like sometimes like you give me that beat like he gave me that beat for that intro and it just how long did it take you to do that how long did it take you to do that you see it wrote different pieces and you put it all together but how long how long did it take you to from you first time you started writing to the end I stop and you know watch different days yeah I come back to it cuz I was like I want to say her name cuz you got a long name and I'm like dang I gotta say this woman name I was like official miss Jamaica wait I love how you do like yeah I'm a rocket so I had that piece and then I had his piece not a yeah yeah I said okay I got to put that together so it was a puzzle but it's dope yeah dope is a and I'm gonna be honest man I can't wait to do the video to it oh man about a drop we about to get it together it's been a lot of changes since the last time I came here to shoot a video I'm trying to figure out a way how to make it be tiktok famous you know you know I have a vision for it for tiktok yeah but I got I need somebody to help me put it through young people young people yeah exactly you to get that boy to come over here with his two daughters he'd love he he'll do it I promise that's all you need he want to come back anyway he want to be on the show I just appreciate the double love that's coming from both the you know man we love you it's coming from both it's sometimes it just might come from this person that person's kind of dry it's coming from both the all heavy that's what inspired me to like let me get this to him like they want that in I don't want them to feel like I'm undoing nobody else can do it like you because we always say to people when they come on we always say hey this is a platform when everybody come on and they hear you in their ears like why wouldn't you want to do it but then they don't do it I don't know or anybody hard like you I think I think it's just God God got away doing things that we can't explain it was man yeah it's just a certain people get it but don't is because yeah I need this me every it's your time it's your time I do count I told them I prayed over everything like just before I do it I'm just Lord knows before come out bless it let it count yeah it's you know like you said Mr. Lucha be the local they all here yeah they're like they're loving it and that's what I knew but think about it that even the one when they want a million views more than millions of views on tiktok for me on my platform the thing is it's just some people can work good together and I know that so certain people it works you know so I think that's more of what it is for me and I kept saying unique hustle and somebody said I said that's his line I can tell you keep it's a unique hustle that it's been a unique it seems like you value that I just put it in there not only that everybody to me can use that for themselves everybody in their own way have a unique hustle, you understand what I mean? So you can always take bits and pieces of that for your own life because you're a boss, anything you talk, that's boss talk, with a unique hustle, you understand what I mean? So that's everybody, as long as you hustling in a positive way, cause when people hear the word hustle they think about, I'm selling drugs or whatever.  So you have your own unique hustle and some of these people not only go to work but they have to have a side hustle doing nails, doing hair, do whatever to try to make ends meet. That's a unique hustle cause you're not giving up.  I know, I was like, did you get the deal? I wouldn't even call it back, I wouldn't even call it. I sent it to Steven and my underboss. That's what you do. Oh yeah, we just, we counseled over it before. He's like, whoa, I was like, yeah, it's over. And that's what he did with the second one too. He gave it to, before we called you back, he gave it to everybody. His son got it, his brother got it, everybody got it first and then gave their input and then not one person said that, they didn't like it. Yeah, so we appreciate you, we love you, we appreciate you. I studied there, like I just molded it and made it. I said, I wanna do Mace when I come in. Oh, I kid that part, yeah. I wanna make him play it, you know.  That was hot, that was hot. I was like, okay, he's standing like that, let me go back to this one and say it, then I play him, me, I was like. And it went down. I was straight. So how long did it take? It was some days, cause I kept stopping then, I kept stopping, let me come back to it. And then I'm calling in the middle of it probably somewhere, yeah. It took some day, but when I got it, I knew, I was like, this is it. This is it, yeah. And then I was like, man, this whole car is young, you might need to do a video. No, we gon' do a video. And that's 16. Oh yeah, we gon' do a video. I was trying to choose a beat that was hot, and I was like, I gotta come back. He want me like, if females is somewhere rapping, I'm gonna ex some music to be a part of. Well, that's the whole game for me. And I've made a decision that I'm just trying to get all the females come through and the ones that get recognized somewhere, within a year, we gon' do something for everybody. At least they can say they done something. Exactly, because I don't think everybody give me a just do. You know what I mean? They came to Boston. Definitely, definitely, Boston 101, dude, it's going down. Shout out. Whenever you do new projects, you already know your family, so you ain't even gotta ask, just pull up, nigga.  I'm trying to get this nigga on the show. Make sure Fat Pimp, reach out to Fat Pimp or give me his number, look, nigga, I want you on the show. I want the other guy from East Texas with him too. Marco, what's up, Marco? Marco, man. Shout out to Marco, man. We need to see him freak together. Man, him met, then I meet Marco. Man, him talked about something.  Clothes. Clothes, yeah. He wanted to get some clothes on something. So he'll be hustling. I like him. I'm gonna rock with him too. And the nigga can sing. I didn't know what he was saying like that. The song we got in the one he got with Fat Pimp is nice. It's nice, ain't it? Well, check it, man. Boss Top 101, man. Thank you, Exo. I appreciate it. Say, man, it's all love, man. We out. Thanks for your 16, man. Yes, sir.


Hi, my name is Tami Landis. Welcome into the Western Gallery. Wish we could all be here in person, but I'm going to give you a little bit of a walkthrough of our current exhibition Insight, a New Realism. As you can see behind me, I'm surrounded by a lot of different mediums, surfaces, variations of the artistic process that have come together in this exhibition. So today, this exhibition Insight, a New Realism, is our 10 exhibiting BFA artists who actually graduated in the spring of 2020. But because of COVID-19, we had to reinstate their installation to the fall 2020. So we're looking at now our 10 exhibiting artists in all different mediums, all different perspectives coming together, exhibiting their culminating projects from their BFA year here in the gallery under one space. So my role as a curator in this exhibition was to try to find some similar themes or parallels to what their work is addressing and coming up with the title Insight, a New Realism. A lot of the work is addressing identity formation, the self, childhood, trauma, memory, nostalgia, but all through an artistic process. So I hope you enjoy this time as we get to dive into artists who are using the artistic process as a means to explore their identity. Welcome everybody on behalf of the Western Gallery. I hope that you're able to see some little glimpses in that video about our exhibition and it's very rich, very complicated. There's a lot going on there and we are fortunate today to have two of our exhibiting artists with us. So to the artists that were shown there in that video are going to be with us today talking about identity and the sense of what does it mean to express or communicate the self to others and fortunately for us, these two artists have used the artistic process to do that. So we're going to dive in and talk about those few things. So with us today, we have Amanda Cartel. So now, Amanda, you can give a little wave and feel free to unmute now Amanda and Sarah. So Amanda is presenting us a work that's called the dining room. That was one of the very last works that you saw me walking around was this very large dining table. And this has very specific connotations to her growing up and her identity so we'll dive into that. And then Sarah Kindle, if you can wave who's also with us here today. And again, thank you both for your time being here. Sarah's work was the model that the video kind of rotated around and it was a little bit of a quick video but it was a model of Sarah's childhood home, a trailer home that has not existed anymore. It's no longer present. So there's so much to pull from why Sarah decided to create this space that's no longer accessible. And how relevant is that is that for all of us today that there's all these spaces that we can't access today that are no longer available. Maybe they're still there but their doors are closed and we can't enter because they're places of community that we're no longer able to access. So it's a pleasure again to be with you all. My name is Tammy Landis. I'm a museum educator at the Western Gallery and I'm really looking forward to diving into this topic of identity and relationship to art because there is so much to say about all artists and how they use their identity as a means to create meaningful bodies of work. And there's something to say about emerging artists such as Amanda and Sarah, who are with us today, that are utilizing their identity in a really deeply personal and presenting it to the public like what we're doing. You know, we don't all have the gift that Sarah and Amanda do to tap into these creative processes and create successful works of art that are about our identity. You know, most of us and we'll talk about these in the chat room. We use and express our identity in different ways, but for us in this dialogue. We're looking at how these two artists have used their identities as a catalyst for expression as a catalyst for a means of communication and why they decided to use that in their bodies of work. So without further ado, I'd love to dive right in. So Sarah and Amanda, hopefully, yeah, you're unmuted. So you're you're here. Thanks for being here, both of you. Thank you. Yeah. And Sarah and Amanda are both still in Bellingham. Some of these artists from the BFA year have moved on to other cities and other places and, you know, it's my effort to bring them in to still install their work when they graduated in the spring. So it's a, you know, really deep pleasure to have you both here. So maybe Amanda will start with you. And I know Chevelle you do have some of the images if you're able to pull them up. That's great. So Amanda is the dining room, the large scaled table with the broken ceramics and the two paintings on the side. So Amanda, you know, I want to just read really quickly something from your artist statement and then we'll dive right in. So you talked about creating discomfort is the crux of my taking a familiar space and distorting, distorting it to contradict the preconceived emotions tied to the objects within it. So there's a lot to unfold there, you know, you're taking a space that is so familiar to you and you're distorting it and changing it. And a lot of this is in part of your identity revolving around the space in particular the act of consumption, as we talked about. So Chevelle, could you show us how is this work steeped in your, maybe childhood identity or is this still a part of your, you know, your identity who you are today is this still a scene that is hard for you.  For me, I really wanted to take like the raw emotions of more of my adolescence than my current self and distort the space based on the emotions sort of like when you first go into a building for the first time it seems more complex and bigger than it actually is sort of taking the negative emotions related to a dining room and acts of consumption and making that into a space. You know, that's interesting you've chosen your identity more so a lot of the identity that you remember so this is a memory of, you know, a certain identity that's persisted. Yeah, you're presenting it in an exhibition and what does it mean for you to be presenting this, you know, aspect of your identity to the public, you're making it open to everybody including your family including your friends, those around you. It's been an interesting experience I say that I would say the most rewarding part of that was that a lot of people have similar experiences that you are like I'm able to connect with even if they're slightly different than mine they still relate to my work in that way which is really really interesting and rewarding in terms of like revealing it to the public, I would say it was at first a little daunting and then it was actually quite rewarding because it just sort of felt like a weight off my back it's like I had talked about it and now it's now it's out there for people to connect with and explore and understand so. I initially feel hesitant at all to you know portray such personal work to the public. A little bit I would say over the four years of going to school is definitely a topic that I just sort of avoided, and then decided to do this, this last year, in terms of I think the hardest part would be my artist statement and how I wanted to phrase things in would be acceptable to my family and people of the public and not too personal but also personal at the same time so. Yeah, yeah. And so Sarah let's let's jump to you on some of these same ideas right so you're also portraying a space that's more specific to your childhood that is no longer available for you to go visit or see and maybe is only kept in your memory. Maybe through pictures maybe not. And so you know tell us walk us through why you decided to recreate that space for this body of work and what it means for your identity formation, you know the process of yourself. I feel like it was a renegotiation of memory, and the way that when we're children we are kind of at the mercy of the adults around us to make decisions that are really difficult. And while, you know, we might not have that agency to say what we need or what is right in that situation that like this is just a kind of manifestation of all of those feelings and those experiences and like a way for, for me to go back into that time period and that like even though it might not exist anymore to kind of make it a stage to perform those actions that are really needed to have happened to. I don't know to feel to feel some sort of like grounding, and it's been therapeutic. So, yeah, yeah, that's a lot of it. It's been therapeutic in a way to be able to express it in the form of an installation in an exhibition versus you just, you know talking through it you have the capability and the skill set that you've created this installation and people have been coming in and experiencing it.  Yeah, that it's that I'm able to show these people this environment and have them engage with it and create their own meaning is really important to me to, because I feel like this, this installation is kind of like, it's how like I do identity It's hard to explain. I feel like a lot of it is like just trying to show people something that's really sensitive without being too blatant and being subtle and instead of being like you know hit in the face with like all of this trauma. It's kind of like it tries to be inviting and I tried to create an environment where people can kind of sit and think about their own childhood and kind of look at these things that might be upsetting in this this space, but not necessarily like hurt by it. So kind of you've created a portal. I mean it's not just you didn't just create a photograph or just a relief print that's flat on the wall you're allowing a space for people to come in, and to reconsider some of these notions that you're talking about it's like a portal into memory for there so not only are you expressing your identity but you're creating a space that allows others to think through their identity and maybe specific to familial patterns of life their environments and their spaces. Right. And maybe you could share briefly I know that if the exhibition would have been open to the public we were going to have you do some performances live performances within your exhibition and I think that is really steeped in your identity to. So maybe could you share briefly what that component would have been with your work. As well I did some performance in that space and I recorded it on Instagram but I create these these characters that are based off of kind of like, I don't know, just very like broad concepts of how I identify as like a person who is like feminine and and either like queer and just I try to think about all of these like female roles that I viewed as a child and kind of personify them. So I feel like this the performance that would have happened in this installation would be like a series of personifications of like, you know the identities that I have like cultivated, and to kind of create this sense of self of who I am now. You know, so they're all these different aspects. Yeah, definitely. And I think it leads me to this part of your artist statement that I share. You wrote it allows me through this work. It allows me to write a new narrative of my personal history, one where I am in control of my sexuality identity and pain. And I think Amanda for you as well. And both of you so maybe I'll let Sarah chime in first but both of you have expressed how the active creation has allowed you to control this memory to control this part of your identity to control this space and there's something to say there I mean for our audience it's not, we can all relate to creating a multi sensory exhibition or installation we can, we can relate to maybe writing it down, you know our memory or writing down or sharing with a counselor or sharing with other certain memories as an active try to remember it but here you're saying, you know you're controlling this memory through the active creation and expression. So, I don't know if you have a thought there, you know this idea of control. Sarah maybe you want to go first yeah. Oh, I, I guess, control is something that's really important to me because of my childhood and because of that trauma and to like, have the ability to relate the actual environment where I feel like I can express all of these feelings that might not have listened to and I, it's. Yeah it helps me find some sense of peace and that like I'm able to get all of those feelings out and then kind of like look at myself and say okay well this is, this is how I really feel after all of that like screaming and freaking out. Absolutely.  That was probably my biggest motivator for this work since I was recreating a space for I had a complete absence of control. It's like I ate what was given to me I ate with the people that I like I had to eat with my family. It's like my parents space so the idea of recreating my dining room from my mind definitely became a really cathartic process and definitely speaking to the act of breaking all of the ceramics was definitely very controlling. It's also very cathartic. I would say the whole piece was definitely about expressing my thoughts and my feelings which I feel like we are really able to do a lot in adolescence and get a response from people that might necessarily understand that you're sort of this lack of control because your life is is controlled by people who are older and are responsible for you. So, I would say that, especially with my work sort of continuing on what Sarah said, it was being able to take, take the space as we remember it, and sort of make it do what we wanted to do this time like this time for our art and for like for the exhibition, which is very nice and a good feeling. Yeah. Yeah, and I think for those that are listening that don't necessarily know you know your BFA year is really neat you have. You've completed your four year degree and then this is an additional year here at Western where you've applied you've submitted a portfolio and you have an intention of creating a certain body of work. And then you dive into that body of work for a year so you spent a year, not more you know preliminary things that you've done in years before that all creates this moment of your BFA final body of work. But you know you could have created work on a lot of different things and I know each of you have expressed like coming into the year considering different options, but you both discerned that what felt right to you was creating this work that was so deeply personal. So, I don't know if you have a thought on. What it meant to be submerged in a year process surrounded by this work. Amanda, if you want to go first. I, I was really looking forward to it I would say like I plan on doing BFA throughout my four years and I was really excited to get both like emotionally and physically invested in a project for an extended amount of time. So, I would say it was, it was really interesting because we also have our committee members between meetup and then we explain our work and what we want to do and our thoughts behind it. And I definitely think that that was the first time where you're like, Oh, this is actually what I'm doing I'm going to be submerged in this work for a year I have to think about what I have to think about this project for an entire year. That sort of led me to be like what can I talk about and think about for a whole year. That will continually interest me and make me want to work on it and it's sort of usually ends up being myself and memory and stuff that I already ended up fixating on for years and years and years. So, yeah, Sarah, what about you. I had a similar experience and it was very different from mine. I didn't know I was going to be in BFA until professors that I had to apply. I was like, I, because I'm the first person in my family to go to college. It's, I don't know what I didn't know what I was doing in college most of the time I was kind of just like moving through these like places and thinking like, Wow, I feel bad I should do this in art to like feel better. BFA was just, it was like really intensive therapy for me. So it, it was really nice to have the committee to to kind of take these like raw feelings and like organize them into like really like specific projects. And so, and I know I keep on thinking about how this installation is kind of like a way of like working out this like dissonant feeling of like my family life and my academic life, because my family life is very, it's not. There's no intellectual kind of interaction. And there's no like delving deep into to like why we feel the way we do and then with like school it's and and the BFA program it was trying to look at these thoughts and like kind of delve into them and like identity building this whole like conversation we're having now is just like, it's so nice to have that to kind of be grounding. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I just want to give kudos to you both for you know presenting such personal work it's not easy to do. And for all of us sitting here we're like, I don't know what I would create like what would be the space that I would make and it's really hard to get there and it takes a lot of work. And actually in the artistic field and the art field is you're stepping into what's the start of your artistic career to like start that this is your body of work moving forward it's it's really monumental. And it has a huge impact for what's going forward but again just like kudos to diving right into what felt important to you and listening to that because some people feel intimidated and they don't and they just stick with something maybe that's a little easier. You know, to present to represent but I know as a curator, I am drawn to artists like yourselves that are not afraid to dive into what's hard and challenging. So I think there's a lot that each of us can pull from this of, you know, identity work and thinking about how we express ourselves is not easy work. And then you know Sarah for you to even say it's therapeutic to work through this. Definitely there's something to say there. I want to draw your attention. We do have a question from game and then another question just came in. I'll just start off with games which was curious about how it feels as an artist to have physical displays put on at a time like this. We all are most isolated as people and I wonder how it feels to be creating something so personal for public display, but then to have access to that display somewhat restricted as well. So I'll give you all opportunity to respond to that and then share the next question. Yeah, Amanda, do you want to go first. I would say it was interesting because definitely with planning this project we expected it to be very very public. I would have to say that I am both like sort of relieved that it's sort of more private and more intimate to experience, but at the same time I did want it to I wanted to have the large reception and be able to interact with everyone person to person and talk. In terms of how it made me feel I would say it's interesting because after working with this project individually almost for a year, especially once quarantine started and I had to work completely alone. It's weird to be away from the work after a year and sort of have everyone experience it without me. So especially something so personal it's sort of an interesting experience that feels it's an I'm actually sort of happy that people get to create their own feelings and sort of be more like secluded in my space personally because I like I sort of that's how I felt in my dining room was sort of alone secluded so. Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. Sarah. Definitely can like I agree with what Amanda said that it's nice to have people go in without the jarring noise of like all of the other students and everyone else that kind of in that space and experience it like kind of one on one. But I still don't I don't feel like it's real, and that like I created this thing and then I had this really strong emotional attachment to it and then not having access to it and not being able to share it and like be present when someone else is engaging with it it feels like I don't I don't feel like it's real and like I've been really struggling with all of the the restrictions and stuff I feel like things aren't real right now so. Just for the context of everybody. So the Western Gallery is open but we're only open to our Western community so unfortunately, Sarah and Amanda and all the other artists couldn't even have their families come up. And I remember this moment of being in the gallery and Amanda's FaceTiming with their family who are standing like right outside. And it's just so challenging that they couldn't even come into the space but we're respecting you know the policies and keeping our campus and our community as needed. During these policies so these are some of the restrictions that Amanda and Sarah talking about and let alone the steps we had to take to get them onto campus and exhibiting and installing their work so it's not just the doors were open come on in and bring your work it's been. Quite the process that we've all felt. So I know that we have another question and I see it. I'm Chevelle so I'll just go ahead and read that. Thank you Karen for your question. So the question is I was wondering how Sarah and Amanda went about choosing their medium and how that medium connects to or expresses the ideas and experiences of their exhibitions are trying to create and they said I like the idea that she just posed that her art is inviting trauma I think this is something that a lot of artists try to capture. So, how does your medium connect to what you're trying to express so maybe Sarah, if you want to start us. So the medium that I initially started off with in my career at Western it was like printmaking. And so I feel like the process of printing and doing relief printing for all of the wood paneling in the installation. It becomes so repetitive and meditative that, you know, I feel like it. It allowed me to kind of think about all of the emotional aspects of creating this installation yet like have this this like kind of guard of like through repetition of kind of like feeling numb to it, and just kind of like experiencing it without too much. I don't know too much intensity and, and just the idea of crafting this whole installation like finding little aspects of like, you know, like things that I've collected over the years and things that I've seen in like secondhand stores and kind of just having that kind of control was really, really helpful I forget about the questions really quickly so I'm sorry about the material in the process and how it connects but you were saying that repetitive process of relief prints which frame the wall of your installation which kind of sets the tone of everything because of that wood panel and so that repetitive motion was a portion of you kind of unveiling this to so Amanda for you the materials how does that communicate to the expression of what you're trying to create like how what's the material and I think this will probably have to be our last question, but go ahead. Yeah, I mean I mostly chose the materials on more of a functional basis, what a dining room would already be made out of so I would think that the most creative expression of material would be in my paintings. I took a lot from, I really liked sort of the tiara scuro and religious paintings, and something that's spooky but also really meaningful, and that you can drive a lot of symbolism from so that was sort of the inspiration and why I chose to do sort of these really dark oil paintings on the side to get that sort of feeling and emotional response. Yeah. I see that you're okay doing one more question is that true. Yeah, I think you can take stairs and then all others you can put them in there and we can shift them to the small groups. Okay, that sounds good so we have a question. Thank you Heather says did you immediately know what final piece. It would be the final piece would be or did it evolve over time.  I originally was going to do significantly like almost a bigger piece with similar themes where I wanted to talk about cause and effect. So originally I was going to make gigantic ceramic vessels and break them with bordering drawings on the wall so similar but then after a lot of talking to my committee they were like then might maybe work specific and that's when I went to the dining room and from the beginning of that specific piece I had a pretty good idea of what it was going to look like but there was a lot of experimentation while I was doing it so yeah. Yeah, thank you and Sarah. What about you did you know your piece the entire time or did it evolve. I know I did something completely different the first for the fall of BFA. I did a whole bunch of like stuff regarding like performance and burlesque and like the, the, just something that was more comedic and I did like something totally different while I really wanted to, I wanted to explore the idea of making a home, but I felt like it would be too personal. So I, our families and creating, or it is really difficult you don't want to like upset your parents and stuff so. Yeah, I started off with something completely different, although I had like kind of inklings with like the work that I did the previous year I kind of touched on that but I just kind of like felt nervous. So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well I think we're about at time for needing to jump into our breakout sessions which I feel are going to be very rich and exciting so thank you all for being here. And thank you again to Amanda and Sarah for your time today and for sharing and diving in. I know by your identity it's not something easy to do let alone make artwork. That's, you know, fueled by your identity so congratulations to you both on your bodies of work and for what they've meant to our community. I know personally being in this space as people coming in, they spend a lot of time with your work so there's something to be said there. It's been a pleasure to have you both as exhibiting artists and to have you here today so thanks for your time. So, I think I'm going to let Nathan take it away to what we're doing next for the breakout sessions and I'm going to share in the chat, the link to the Western galleries website for this exhibition where you can see the online catalog. And you can see more information about each of these artists as well as recorded artist talks that both of them had with me.


Hi everyone, welcome back to Tiny Mic Interviews at DEF CON 31. Today we are at the policy village with Noni. And I felt like this was such an important village to really highlight this year because this year more than ever I feel like we're seeing more and more people talk about hackers, security, security breaches, data breaches in a policy in law, in regulation. And more than ever I think that this village needs that feature. So tell me about what's happening at the policy village just here. Absolutely, I'm happy to be here. So I'll start with a little bit of background. So traditionally you see this field as in two different posts, two different sites. You have one side of it, you have more individuals on that field with policy, legal background. On the other side you have individuals on the whole with information security and hacker background. And oftentimes you don't have the spaces to interact with two communities and bring them together in these spaces. And so that is what the policy department said twice today. We try to create the opportunities in order to bring policy makers into the hacker community space and talk about these issues that I have in mind as a way of really creating more of a cohesion to us as these groups. So we're officially part of DEF CON this year. We've had a presence at Preview DEF CON this past couple of years. And I think it's been pretty interesting and exciting to see the level of interest across all our different sessions this year. We have a session earlier today that talked about what is policy one-on-one. How can we think about this as an issue that is important to the hacker community? And the rule was packed. Similarly, we had another one-on-one session that talked about international cyber policy. How does that hand itself across different communities here in the DEF CON space? Once again it was packed. And so I think there is a lot of interest in terms of better understanding policy, but for policy makers to better find ways to connect with hackers in these spaces. So you mentioned earlier that there were some policy makers here at DEF CON. How has the outreach been from policy makers to your village? Yeah, so we've had a really healthy representation from policy makers at DEF CON in previous DEF CONs, but also this one. It's been really nice to see that there's an OAS delegation that came to attack. We also have the current Acting Director of the National Cyber Directorate. We have the Head of CISA, Janice Trulli joining us. We've had former NCD Director Chris English joining us for the session as well. And so the very healthy is that much of the representation of the individuals across government that are making a breakthrough in taking the time to actually plug into these discussions, get to know the cyber community, but also share their insights and perspectives on issues that have an intersection between hackers based in the past. So for the people who are at home and interested in getting into policy and hacker policy, what are some of your favorite resources that you think are super helpful? Yeah, well so first of all join us at policy at DEF CON.  Come on by, there's many ways to stay in touch with us. There's many social media channels. We have a newsletter where we push out a lot of content. And obviously if you'd like to volunteer at policy at DEF CON, come over here and we'd love to have you. That's awesome. Is there anything that you'd love to tell the people who are watching at home about policy to wrap everything up? Sure. I think it is such an important issue area that has so many insights and bringing in the hacker community. It's such an important aspect of our policy in a more inclusive and cohesive way. And so this is not something that we can do alone as individuals that have more of a policy background. This is something we can all do together. And so encourage more like a future for them in this space. So check out the policy village here at DEF CON. Thank you so much for this. I'm so excited to get more eyes on this village. So thank you so much. Thank you. Also, bye everyone.