Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Executive Summit, brought to you by Accenture. Welcome back, everyone. We are wrapping up two days of wall-to-wall coverage at the Accenture Executive Summit. You are watching theCUBE. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, and co-hosting alongside of Donald Klein. We have two guests for this segment. We have Zephyr Rizaki. He is the managing director, Digital Industry X at AWS. Welcome to the show. Thank you. And John Allen, Global Automotive Professional Services Leader at AWS. Thank you both for coming on the show. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. So first, I'm going to start with you Zephyr. I want to hear both what you do. What is Digital Industry X? It's so mysterious. So Industry X.O is a fairly new practice inside of Accenture. We focus on all things smart and connected. There's a product segment that focuses on smart and connected products specifically. And then certainly we have to think about engineering. So how do you build those products and how do you automate and make the processes for developing those products smarter? And then processes and operations. How do you actually run those types of businesses? So I'm new to the practice. I actually joined from a number of years at General Motors, where I worked on mobility and innovation there. And prior to that, spent a number of years at Google working on innovation and new products there. So happy to be at the firm and excited to think about how we bring these types of skills to the mobility industry and change automotive. So John, paint a picture for our viewers. The entire industry is being disrupted. We are changing the way we move around from city to city. We have Uber and Lyft, electric scooters, connected cars. Just paint the picture for our viewers about the disruption taking place. I mean, I'll use a line from one of our CEOs in the auto industry, Marivara, said we'll see more disruption in the next five years than we've seen in the last 25 years in the automotive industry. And it's really fascinating to see what's happening. I think the big disruption is that automotive industry and automotive makers are no longer traditional metal benders. They see themselves as mobility companies. And they see that they need to integrate with this ecosystem. It's just not about driving your car to one spot to another, but it's a full customer experience. From the moment you get into your car, you get to your location, and then how do you actually get further? Maybe you take a scooter, maybe you're not using your car or you're using Uber. So it's fascinating to see how the ecosystem is all integrated in. The auto industry also has shifted that no longer do they think or think they should just do it alone. I think we're seeing a lot of partnerships, and they're bringing in a lot of small businesses, and they're bringing in more innovation. They realize that innovation isn't just happening within their four walls, but they're using a much larger ecosystem to really change and transform mobility across the world. So maybe talk a little bit how broad this ecosystem is, right? Because maybe in the old time we had maybe sort of car manufacturers, right? And we had cities. Cities made the roads, car manufacturers built the vehicles, right? But now we've got a complicated ecosystem, right? We've got data companies that are playing a role in this, right? We've got, that are driving sort of ride hailing, et cetera. We've also got cities thinking about how they offer kind of traffic services differently. Just maybe just talk about some of the things you're seeing around the ecosystem. Yeah, I mean, certainly OEMs are reimagining their role in the ecosystem. Suppliers are also thinking about how they can start to add new value and leverage the data off of their systems. We have to talk about startups in this space as well. I mean, the ecosystem of startups is just growing rapidly. We've talked about Uber and Lyft. They've been a great model for the way a startup can come in and disrupt and grow. But across all aspects from supply chain to retail to in-vehicle technologies, there are so many new entrants. And it's exciting. And it's leading to these types of partnerships where traditionally an OEM might have said, I'm going to do it all. Now there's this comfort with, I'm going to partner with a startup. I might invest in them. I might put some project dollars into that relationship and work on co-developing a solution together. And what's amazing I think is the customer has a lot more power maybe than in the past. And so automotive makers, this unique partnership that's happening is they're really putting the customer in the center. Customers want a seamless experience. They want to be jumping between different apps or different capabilities. That's what's beautiful we're doing in AWS is we're trying to help these OEMs take that full experience and think of it as your car is a personal assistant. Think of it as it can help you get to your job. It can also help with your personal life as well. And so I think it's fascinating that they're really starting to put the customer at the center to have a better customer experience. And it's no longer just horsepower and how your car works, but it's really the connected ecosystem that extends theoretically beyond your car. So you can connect to your home. You can connect with the rest of your life through your vehicle these days and I think that's the change. So how will that work? Describe the connected car. What are we really talking about here? Wow. You want to take that one first? Sure, well let's contrast it to the non-connected car. All right, fair enough. I mean literally getting in, turning the engine on and the car was a standalone part of your daily life. But to John's point, now with it being really software driven and having data able to flow from your vehicle to your home and be able to automate turning on your thermostat as you're approaching the home. Automatically opening the garage just based on proximity, those types of things. Being able to have the convenience of your favorite playlists and your phone book, bringing that digital life into the car. Those weren't possible before the connected car and that technology architecture that we see now. But now that experience becomes much richer and much more personalized. Yeah, and I think looking at latency, looking at IoT, looking at edge. Fascinating, especially with the introduction of 5G coming up. It's going to completely be a game changer for the rest of this. So let's build on that. So the roles of the players in the ecosystem are changing, right? So the role of the car manufacturer is changing. The role of the city is changing. The role of the start-up is changing. But it seems like the kind of common theme among all of these is that they're leveraging data in different kinds of ways. And I was just wondering, so how does AWS help these kind of stakeholders be able to leverage that kind of data? So my role on professional services for AWS is we help our customers use the AWS services to make it real. Whether it's from our proof of concepts all the way to operations. So we use our wonderful partner community like Accenture and we come in together. And so for example, say a customer wants to create a personal assistant through the vehicle using Alexa, using other services, we would go in maybe with a partner. And a lot of times we love to do it with the customer, with the automaker and together build. Again, it might be a concept. There is still a long lead time to create devices to be included in the vehicle. But the great thing about now Cloud and some of the technologies, seven years was generally the design cycle for a vehicle. You can't do that anymore with new technologies, right? So we as AWS come in and really help say let's envision, let's work backwards from the customer, let's think about what we need to have, help them build and then later on actually implement and make it operational. Maybe I could just add to that real quick. I mean, one of the beauties of this partnership is that we see some of the new technologies that AWS is developing and what's in the pipeline. And our teams are actually working on building demos on top of this. So one example of that is a trip planner that we actually have on display here on the show floor where we can help a family plan a trip. What are all of the things they need to take on that trip because Alexa knows your shopping preferences. We can recommend the snacks and things that you want to take. We can recommend stops along the way. In the future where we're all driving electric vehicles, how do you plan out your charging and take the family to a restaurant while you're waiting 30 minutes for the vehicle to charge. So a lot of those things are realities that we can actually build today based on the technologies that AWS has to offer. What are some of the best in class automakers in the sense of who are really at the cutting edge in terms of working with you both Accenture and AWS in terms of really thinking innovatively and creatively. Sure. Well, I think everyone across the ecosystem is at that point in time where they recognize it's time for that transformation to happen. So I mean, you can pick any one of the major brands and look at great examples of the way they're changing the experience inside of the vehicle from the integration of different types of personalization offerings to even some of the newer entrants like a Tesla that's really building vehicles from the ground up focused on software and that customer experience. So I think it's an exciting time across the industry. Everyone's really making those changes and you guys are probably at the seat at the table in all of those conversations. Yeah, I hate to point out one specific but what I think I've seen a theme is that they recognize to draw talent they can't do the old way of doing business, right? So they're creating these joint innovation centers with AWS, they have innovation centers kind of even off campus of the main campus and they kind of have that silicon feel because it's a draw talent and they got to make it as exciting to get these new coders and developers in to want to join an automaker. They weren't necessarily seen as that but they joined an automaker and that's completely transforming especially the rise of the digital that the CTO and then the CDO, the Chief Digital Officer we're seeing that completely change in data science. These are themes maybe 10 years ago that really weren't talked about in OEMs and now they have a seat not only at the table but they're at the board level. And these are conversations at the board level now. Absolutely, yeah. So you know, one of the things we've all experienced we all spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, right? Maybe talk a little bit about how are cities getting smarter about kind of using mobility in order to kind of move people across cities and avoid kind of traffic some of the other problems we all experience. Right. Well, I think there's cities as consumers of data. So cities are now having conversations with many of the automakers about leveraging vehicle data to make better decisions about the use of their roadways or how they manage traffic light phasing. So there's a lot of interesting things happening there where manufacturers are able to share their data to cities. And their city planner teams, their, the way they're building new roadways are including a lot of that infrastructure now where you see technologies like DSRC that's able to talk to vehicles and help those traffic lights phase accordingly. I think cities are playing a really important role in making those new technologies come to bear. And I think it's amazing to see some of the investments in some of the smaller cities. So a few years ago, the Department of Transportation put out a challenge, smart city challenge and then selected a city to actually be the incubator. But that created all these other cities from Austin to Columbus to Ohio to you name it to almost have these PMOs or these centers of excellence to create smart cities. And we talked about the ecosystem at the beginning of the conversation. And it's really enabling these cities to bring in maybe big ideas that weren't able to be brought in before. The cloud and the technologies we have are really leveling the playing field and giving it access to maybe companies that didn't have that kind of compute power before. And that's where we're seeing with the smart cities initiatives. It's not so expensive anymore. And you can bring in some really brilliant ideas of a small business that is maybe a three person shop that could actually transform. But I think we do need to fix the infrastructure and we've talked about this as a nation for a while and we continue to invest their infrastructure to really enable smart cities. We've been talking about these smart cars and how they are going to serve as our personal assistance of the future. But what about safety too, as an innovative USP? In the sense of here we are using data to make these cars smarter, more connected and also safer. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of debates right now on how safe autonomous vehicle and we're learning more as we go along that. I think there's a couple of use cases that I've seen is you can sign up for apps to become a smarter driver, right? You see, you get your score with my vehicle, I get a report card every month to say how I've actually been doing. And as a parent, I can see how my kids are driving and all that. But I think at the end of the year, and it's kind of a, I'll be bold here a little bit, we really don't remember the last time there was a major commercial airline crash in the United States. It makes the six o'clock news. By the time I retire, I make a bold prediction. I can be bold here that a major car accident in the country, now I might be at a nursing home, could make the evening news. Because we could get to that level of safety in the future. Meeting car accidents are so frequent. Or accidents so rare. Could be so infrequent and rare. It would make the difference. Right, now, I'm not saying it's going to happen near turn. I do have a prediction that if, what we're trying to design today enables that for the future, I think it's pretty proud to be part of that, right? Again, I think it's, you know, years down the road I might be a shady pines retirement community at that point. But I really, I mean, you think about how we've been able to deal with the aviation industry and make it safer. Even with the challenges around that, I think in the future we could have that for safety in vehicles in my lifetime. I totally agree. And I think that's a big promise of autonomous vehicles. That's what so many people are excited about. Traffic accidents are one of the leading causes of death in our country. So to be able to address that through technology, I think is an exciting promise. We see some of that even today with all the technology that's being built into the vehicle. There are high standards for minimizing driver distraction. And just imagine that future where you no longer have to worry about driver distraction. And now our relationship with the vehicle is one where we sit back, we live our lives. There's a statistic that we estimate people will get back 4.5 years of their life that they're not spending behind the wheel locked on the road. Those types of things are really exciting to think about. Now somebody out there will probably correct me with the numbers. I think 39,000 fatality deaths in the United States was reported by Nets. I think that's the number. But I know that the number of distracted driving is going up. Got it. And that's a problem. I mean, people are using their phones. And it's not only phones, it's drinking, it's distracted driving. So anyway, now. Distracted pedestrians. That's the thing walking around Boston. Everyone's just. That's right. Walking around here, you see people on their phones. Absolutely. And I think that we are on a, it's amazing to see the changes that have happened around this the last couple of years. And I think it's just open new opportunities for companies that could never have been really played in this space are really making a change for us. So one of the stories I love to hear about is, you know, how these kind of connected car and data capabilities are enabling us to use the kind of infrastructure we've got today better, right? I mean, we all love to jump out of line taxi and zoom over traffic, et cetera.  Maybe you can talk a little bit about those and kind of how new business models are being allowed by that. Yeah, so metering is one way where it becomes a smart infrastructure where you understand the traffic patterns and it'd be each HOV or you pay for it. So you can make the decision if you want to spend $30 to try to get into the city or be stuck in traffic and take your an hour. And so it's interesting with the smart infrastructure that's actually occurring within cities right now that changes on how people will use metered lanes. And that's one thing we're seeing today. But there's also integrations of the apps that we use every day to help us give us better insights, obviously, that we all use to be able to have traffic. But it's the integration with that. Imagine having that application integrated with emergency management. So today people are hitting an app because Waze is a cop on the side of the road. Well, we have customers, one customer in particular that want to make sure that's integrated in a smart way. That if a police car is on the side of the wall, how is it really feeding the larger infrastructure? So yes, there's a whole piece on metering and smart infrastructure. But I think that some of these other businesses are finding ways to integrate things like emergency management and other pieces to really help reduce traffic flow and make it easier. Parking is another great example. Yeah, there are a number of startups out there that have created technologies to help map open parking spaces. So how do you feed that data to the end user to help them make smarter decisions? I think there's another data point that's, we spend about 30% of our time in our vehicle is spent just looking for parking, right? So how can we help to drive those things down? How can we help make it more efficient to find a parking spot, to even transact for that parking spot? And you might come to a situation where, again, when there's peak traffic, are we bidding for a parking spot? And will a parking spot go to the highest bidder? So these are all opportunities that technology really enables when we connect the vehicle and are able to feed in that type of data around parking, infrastructure, roadway usage, et cetera. Well, Zephra and John, this has been a really cool conversation. You have great jobs. It's really neat, re-imagining mobility. Yes. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Donald Klein. That wraps up our coverage of the Accenture Executive Summit for theCUBE. Thank you so much and we'll catch you next time.


for Sarah's Lettle 9PM Daily in Sarah's Kitchen, and there's free admission entertainment every weekend. Welcome, welcome to the DL debate. Thanks so much for tuning in. Now live on Highland Radio or back via the podcast, thanks Donal Kevna for the news, the legendary Ivan Borden for the Power R Plus. We have another packed show coming for you this evening and Joe Dex is producing as ever, hiya Joe, we are going to be talking soon. They're in the show with Nile Cleary on a very brief performance by our hurdlers in the Division 2B semi-final in the park at the weekend. Nine players missing, a few injuries in the Satanta team had a team holiday, so a very brief performance from Mickey McCann's troops going down by a single point and indeed had a later opportunity to equalize the game from distance. So Nile Cleary from a county star and Satanta player manager, he is coming in the studio later. After that, Maureen O'Donnell will be on to discuss Donagall Ladies. After they finished up the league with a 2-8-3-4 victory away to Chipper-Rary, be good to catch up with Moe as ever. Under 20s are playing for Manna. This Wednesday night, 7 o'clock, and Balba Faye get along and support them as they go for another victory. Just from the weekend there, I was talking, there was a few of the sister-sharrows crew out in Boston talking to a few lads out there, Park McLaughlin, ex-Bone Cranaman out there, listens to the show, want to give you a shout-out to Park, Leslie McGilligan in New York was given off because of the bank holiday. I took the bank holiday last week, sorry, but that Leslie, I have to get an odd wee time off, you know, but we'll be here for the next bank holiday because, of course, Donagall are playing our Ma in the league final up in Crow Park. Looking forward to that and all other games that's going, of course, Derry and Dublin as well. We'll be bringing you all the action at the weekend. Earlier on today, I caught up with a former Derry county star to hear his views on the current situation in Derry and, of course, a man that has coached Donagall with a great chat earlier today, here it is. Yes, now, folks, I'm going to say Paddy Bradley joins us, Derry Legend, and a man that has coached club and county underage and, of course, came into your own county to get involved last year and always great to chat to you. Paddy, how are you? Not too bad, Brett, on yourself. Paddy, of course, you're juggling. You have a few young lads coming up as well there. I'd imagine life's all go. Hi, well, look, I'm still managing the club. Obviously, won the last 200 mediates. And Derry, we had a bit of a fight there with the county board. Believe it or not, we're still playing our midget football for the third year in a row. We thought we had made our moves to get the thing changed. Unfortunately, it didn't work. But look, it is what it is. We'll just have to try and get one up for a third time in a row. And then I took on the job with under-16 manager in the club, too. So it was busy. And as you say, I've got four young boys on my own now, and they're involved from under-16, right, down to under-8. So, aye, busy house and not much free time. But look, keeps you busy, keeps the mind active and really, really enjoying it. I'm looking forward to the matches starting. I'd imagine there's a lot of Glen Olney's on them young Bradley boys because they're running like the dad and the uncle in particular. I'll tell you what, they'll take a bit of stopping. Buddy, you just mentioned there, what I've seen using under-media even last year, I was kind of scratching my head, but you're saying it's a third year. What's been the issue? Look, they said about maybe a couple of years ago in Derry, Britain, to be able to restructure. I think it was always a 16-team league, senior league, maybe 12, intermediate, maybe nine, something to that effect. They tried to sort of balance that out. There's this idea to try and make our under-media and junior representatives of Nolster that we've got stronger, try to get it to sort of more like three-twels, but just with the nature of the way clubs are in Derry, the 16-team league always suits. And the fact that your county players aren't available anymore to play in league football, there was always, obviously, even wherever I was back playing with Derry, there was always that pressure on county players to go and play for their club because of the relegation and the importance that the league's held back then. So this, I suppose they wanted to change it. I don't think it's worked. The likes of Ball and Derry, for example, and Corian are down to play under-media championship this year when they play in the senior league. And then the likes of Lave, they're down to play in senior championship with the play under-media league. A great believer that you should always be playing in the same league in championship. I think there was a number of years ago, Glenal were relegated to intermediate for one year. We decided to opt in to play the senior championship, but we hadn't got the proper preparation. That was actually a mistake on our part. So we had first-hand, I suppose, experience of knowing that if you're not playing the same league that you play in the championship, it's not going to serve you any favour. So we felt having won the last two under-media championships, even though they were trying to restructure and change, we don't have to prove, I suppose we were good enough to play in the senior league in senior championship when we thought they were going to change it. But look, it was sort of vetoed by the county board at the last minute. There's actually another meeting tonight about it, but it looks as if we're going to be playing under-media league and championship this year, which is disappointing because we took our medicine and the fact we were relegated a number of years ago and we've had to get down and, I suppose, rethink about our structures, our coaching and what we're doing in the club. But we are bringing through lots of good young players. We won the under-17A league last year for the first time in our history. I've entered just now with stealth, Alex of Owen playing at 41 years of age and Yun Nakian and John Nakianio in their late 30s, but we haven't entered just a lot of young players into the senior team and I think even the team last year that won this championship was a lot better than the team that won it the previous year and really looking forward to this year, but look, we're just going to have to try and win it for a third time to be in and prove that we're enough to play at that level. Yeah, it's, listen, probably funny I meant, Brandon McGuire there, the Lavi man, so you just mentioned there because I knew they were in the senior championship when they informed me about the league. I was gay and I was scratching my head and at one time, listen, I totally agree with you on the league and championships in terms of clubs like that. And it was probably in many ways, it's maybe unfair in some of the teams in the intermediate with us being, you know, you should be at senior level at this point and there you are back in that competition. I suppose it's tough on them as well. They have such a side leguse in there, especially the experience you've got the last few years, but listen, Paddy, you're the only one what you're in, I suppose that's the main thing, but I was just looking there, it's just about six or seven days ago, it was a year ago that Paddy Carr stepped down and we had that game against Ross Coleman and yourself and Aiden stepped up and took the team. Paddy, I suppose from looking outside now, assessing about that time, you know, there was so much drama happened in Donegal and I've said it countless times even this morning about the job that you and Aiden did do then to turn the corner, but what was it like at that time, Paddy, in the middle of all that turmoil and was there a thought in your mind that listen, this is too much for us to take on? Look, I've said lots of times to different people since that there's no such thing as a bad experience to me in managing or coaching, you know, you learn a lot from the different situations as you find yourself in and I looked, there was a lot of turmoil there, probably, to be told, Britain, whenever I agreed to get down to Donegal, I probably didn't know the different issues that existed within the county, had I have known maybe some of the stuff that was going on in the background, I probably would have had to think about harder and longer about whether or not I would get involved, but as I say, there's no such thing as a bad experience. I was lucky enough for that year to work with some really, really highly talented and motivated players and look, we didn't achieve what we wanted to achieve. Again, it's been well documented the different reasons for that and there's a number of factors you could blame. Obviously, it was disappointing sort of the way things panned out for Paddy, Paddy's a gentleman, I had a great time for the man, but the player sort of made a stance that they wanted myself and Aiden to, I suppose, take over the mantle after Paddy left and we were more than happy to do so because we felt we could turn a corner in there, I felt we didn't, a small bit, we were again a wee bit of pride in the jersey, but I felt ultimately last year one of the biggest factors, I suppose, that contributed to maybe Donegal not achieving what they could achieve was the injury list, you know, so many key men out and obviously they're down a different division this year, the level is obviously a bit less, the standards maybe that wee bit lower, but you could see, and obviously Jim was going to come in and he was always going to get that lift from having been there before, but you can see the impact that, you know, having all them key men or most of them key men back is having, they're, you know, getting a good run of games, the likes of Farrah, for example, who I think is good afford as it is in the country, we had him last year and he played most of our games, but he was still only coming back from injury, he's benefited this year, I suppose, from having a full year's football and then a full pre-season, and I think he's only going to go for strength to strength, and old Paddy got off the weekend there, but you know, we obviously missed Paddy, who was the leader of the team last year for a significant amount of the game, and likes of Michael Langen and Jason McGee and these boys didn't play much football last year, which obviously ultimately was going to affect the team, but no, look, as I say, there was no such thing as a bad experience, really, really enjoyed my time down there, even though there was a lot of stuff going on in the background, I'm just delighted to see the team going well again because there's plenty of good lads and there's a pile of talent there, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how them and Derry do in the first round of the championship. And Paddy, just at that period that you came in, I know there was a training camp put together, the hopes were going to go all good under the championship were very slim, but you did manage to turn it round, you know, you mentioned those players that weren't available, as well as that, you know, you'd legs around the queue, the two of Donalds, the different guys, they gave so many hurdles in there, and as you said, it's very interesting, you said there's no bad experience and fair play, because it took some effort to turn that round, but we came into the championship and you could see the change in the team in that short period of time in terms of, you know, you'd galvanised, you know, what was there, and you'd made the best of it.  Hi, probably. Look, we just hadn't performed as well, but like in the league, we obviously had the high of betting Kerry in the first game, and there was a real good factor within the county, but results just didn't go away, and I'd say we were missing key players. You mentioned, obviously, another couple of men, the Adolmans, and you see Shane back playing this year. We sort of knew he was going to go travel, which was a blow, even, before we started, and obviously, Michael had just retired. Ryan then had left for his own work commitment and whatnot, but, hi, look, we got a good body of work done down in the current house. I know a lot of people within the county and beyond were critical of spending that amount of money, but, look, that's just the nature of what teams do now. You know, they are all going in these training camps and whatnot. We did get a good body of work done, probably a wee bit too late for the down game. Now, I must say, it was really, really disappointing to get up to New York that day and not get a result, because as bad as we were at, I still felt we were good enough to get over that hurdle, but we didn't, and, look, we really grew up. We done plenty of good work between the Ulster Championship and the All-Iron series, and, look, to get down to Clare, who were, you know, were going rightly, and get a result down there, really give the team a lift. And then, obviously, we were a really, really good result against Monaghan and Oman. We went into that dairy game, really believing that we could win that game, and for, maybe, as you say, 45, 50 minutes, we played really, really well, gave them plenty of baller, missed a few easy scoring chances in the first half, and that game could have been a lot closer than down the stretch, so I think the players took confidence from that, and, again, all credit to the players who had experienced a bunch of players. They knew they hadn't performed to the level that they were expected to perform, but they're proud men.  You know, that was them that turned the corner, really. You know, the leaders within that group.  Probably myself and Aiden haven't chatted about it after the event. Maybe we got a few things wrong in terms of our match-ups, but they live on their own, you know, and they're disappointed, but, look, for a play to the last, they're re-gripped again, obviously, Jim's come in. There's that sense of expectation and that buzz on around the county again. And, look, they've been down in division two, as I say, with the qualities, maybe that wee bit lower. They've got a good run of games into men. He's using his panel well. And, if they, you know, avoid, I know they picked up a few inches, Ryan, and padded the weekend, as I said, and I think everybody would clean Bill of Health. They'll go to Celtic Park, and they'll not fear Derry. That's one thing for you. Very interesting, of course. Great points, as ever. But just last point on last year, if they ask you, the change from the down game in the Clare, the second half against Clare, I think in particular, was there a moment or was it the training you're doing that was taking a while to click in or the belief you were putting in? What would you put down to that performance up in Park, yes, versus the other championship games? I know, I just think it's the body of work you do train, you know. I looked at, you know, that's one thing I will say, any time we went to convoy to train, you know, the boys didn't come with their heads on the floor, the boys came and worked hard really every night and listened to myself and Aiden, we're trying to implement. And I look, as I say, proud men, want to do the best for their county, want to return the corner and going to be a bit of luck down in Clare because I think maybe early doors, they missed the gold chance or two, we could have a gold or two, and maybe we, you know, that was the luck we didn't have earlier on this season, you know, you're ready to look and, you know, but be working hard and doing that, you do get the breaks and we got maybe a few breaks down in Clare and from there, I'd say the confidence started to grow and obviously, as I say, put just a really, really good performance that night against Monaghan, looking, it's fine margins. Like Monaghan went to the whole way to an all-round semi-final and, you know, we had 10 minutes to go right in the game, we doubled it. So, and that's a team that don't like all that, beat only a few short weeks earlier. So that's the fine margins that there are in sport. And as I say, you know, prefer playing them for regroup and turning that bit of a corner and putting a wee bit of pride back into the jersey after what was a traumatic season. Yes, indeed, indeed, Pally. It was a dramatic season, surely. And this is funny how he called can change, but I say the work that you and Aiden put in was integral to that turn, Pally, surely, fair play to us. Pally, obviously, Donny Gaul and Derry, there's the whole spotlight of the championship at the start as everybody's looking at this game in Celtic Park. We're always interested in what happens in Derry, regardless, you know, the detail and the story they've been on from division four to the best team in Ulster currently and knocking on the door of an All-Ireland has been unbelievable, Pally. And it's amazing how that story has gone from rock bottom to the top. Just from the weekend there, Pally, we had quite a few games that were a bit dull in that and, you know, not really just went with the script in terms of your game with Ross Common. Was there anything to be read in it? Did the game, Derry, post in a healthy 219? Look, I wasn't at the game, I must admit. The fact that it was a, it was quite a few of the Derry games throughout the league this year. I didn't go to this game because I always felt Derry were going on and knew they were probably going to experiment in fairness to Micklay and Gavin. They have used the league as an opportunity to try and enter just a few new players and that's supposed to be the one, well, one of the positives that Derry will take from this league. They now seem to be building a bit of a panel. The likes of Lachlan Murray, obviously, shot the lights out yesterday. He's a player that I know really well, having coached him with the honour of 20. He's had bad luck with injuries. He never seems to be fit to get a run of games, but he's got the last two or three games and I think he rewarded the manager team yesterday with his performance. You know, it's been well documented that Shane McGuigan obviously carries the bulk of the scoring threat, but a bit of a day that Shane's maybe closed down. I say not having watched the game. I know yesterday, for example, he might have had a bit of an off day I was reading. He was marking the likes of Brian Stack, who knows a very, very competent defender and it's good to see the likes of Lachlan stepping up. Cormac Murphy obviously was on another one. I think we're talking about forwards. Cormac Murphy was on another one, who again, his progress has been hampered a bit by injuries, but he has shown glimpses that he can make it at this level. The one thing that I think Derry have an abundance, Bretton, and you'll know this, is the players all over the fields who really go at you, who really take men on. And the two men I mentioned, you know, you add them to the likes of your Ethan Doherty's to your Connor Doherty, coming from half-back. Bretton Rogers, Connor Glass from midfield. Derry have serious Roman power, both in and around the middle late and the end of men that can take men on and side. So, I look, it's very, very encouraging league campaign for Derry. It'll be interesting to see next week how that game goes. Probably knew that night they played Dublin that in the league a few weeks ago that they were going to be playing them again in the league final. My sense is that they're going to go down and treat game as a marker as to where they are. Dublin obviously have started the league really, really slowly, but have really shot the lights out in the last number of weeks. They are the form team in the country, along with Derry. And that looks as if it's going to be a Cracker game next week, in which I'm sure is going to be a nearly a piked crook park, because I'd imagine our man, Donny Gull, will bring decent support with him too. Yeah, just set up for a Cracker. Interesting points, Sarah Putty, and you're right, the likes of Murray hitting 1-4 there and he's in the already four points. Interesting, because listen, I think we're going to get no more than you were inside there. Putty, on his day, he's unmarkable. You know, McKinless is back from injury. The Derry squad's looking very healthy. McFall, Putty still is kind of doing a job in there, right? I think there's a lot more to come from Hammer. What's your feeling on McFall? 100%. Now, Beall accounts, it came on really yesterday and controlled the game in the second half, and he has that potential from either 6.00 or 11.00, 2.00, Paul Strings can control the game. Obviously, somebody that has a bit of a scoring threat too, like a great man to kick a point or two from in around that 35, 40 yards.  I felt last year, Brenton McColl, who I rate really, really highly, done a very, very good job in Sheehanth and Ballet Buffet. I'm sure he's been earmarked again by Jim and his team to mark Sheehanth. So if that's the case, Derry are going to need other threats. And as I said, the positive thing for Derry through this league campaign has been their score and average and the fact that others are contributing. But it's not just attacking ways. Lexa Chrissy, obviously, is now getting on 33, 4 years of legs and the edge. Lexa David Becker has come in there at cornerback who I didn't know a lot about and you see his name being named in the McKenna Cup and you're thinking, this lad is getting a chance not really expecting him to nail down a starting spot, but he has proved on-drop-able at the minute. You know, really, really good player. So I, it's positive and the fact that Derry do seem to be building the panel and bringing men on and the forward-lying and defence that seem to be fully covered positions from two jobs. Yeah, and Division Two for us, I suppose it's been strange. I thought Division Two was getting a bit more competitive when we were down, you know, but haven't seen it.   The top teams probably tend to be in the rounded and you see their Derry go on their map, going down, going back up with very little fuss, to be honest. I think they've all mixed the good with the bad, probably in this league campaign, but when they've opened up against teams, they have put teams away. They probably should have beat our map up there, I think, without even playing. That way, I mean, you've seen our map, shoot the lights out in a couple of games since. So it's set for a good one. You read, did it go up to six or seven injuries? I just wonder, you know, if those lads don't play against our maps, hard to see them being ready to take the field against Derry in Celtic Park, and if they don't, you know, it's a huge way of teaming out Derry. It looked like they could have a full clean by the health going into the game. Aye, look, I listened to that clip. Jim Hadworth, I seen Rayleigh on off the ball yesterday. It was under review after the match and he talked about the nature of the way the season set up on a 100% agreement as a manager in Tenderhooks because there is no space between the league and championship to get injuries cleared up. You know, in one sense, we've talked about don't we go on how positive it is to see the likes of Farah getting a full, you know, league campaign under his belt, Pat or Morgan's come back and there's Sheena Donnells back. But then you have the flip side of that is that Paddy and Ryan are injured through again. How says is that? Are they going to be available for the Derry game? Jason, he has played little or no football at all again. What's the story about him? Is he going to be available because to me he's a key player? He's close. Yeah. He's pretty close, Paddy, yeah, Jason. Pretty close, aye. So, look, injuries are going to play a part. You say, you know, if they don't play against Arma, will they be available for Derry? Will the flip side of that again, Bretton, is maybe you don't risk them against Arma to make sure they are available, you know? So, only Jim and his management team will know, you know, the lay of the land with injuries. You would suspect, but, you know, Donnelly Ball need all them was available to go on to Celtic Park where Derry have a really, really good record in the last number of years to try and turn them over. Derry have been very, very lucky. That must be said in the last three or four years. With injuries, like, none of their key men rarely are out. Like, he came back in the last three, four years. Connery Glass, you know, has barely missed a game. Barron, you know, been arrested. Shane McGuigan, never injured. Bretton Rogers, never injured. They've had an injured out over Connery already. Again, there was question marks about how serious his knee injury was, but he took the field yesterday. The Lexapoddy McGregor was arrested yesterday. So, the thing about Derry is they've been fit to rest because they are playing so well and because they got off to such a good start in the league. It is loud. McLean Gavin, the opportunity to arrest these boys. I think there's a doubt around Gareth McKinless. The chat is he could have a broken nose. I suppose it's one of them things he probably could play with a bit of a mask on, but he would be a key player for Derry as well. So, injuries are going to play a part of them in the next few weeks. Whilst Derry and our man will want to go to Crook Park and maybe use their... Our Derry and Donny Gull will want to go to Crook Park and use their two games as good markers to see where really they are. At the same time, in the back of the head, you've got to think, they've got to be thinking about the championship I'm getting injuries cleared up to. Yeah, and finally, just on that, obviously, you're looking at Derry back-to-back, Oster. It's all about Null Ireland. Telt fair enough, if you picked up on Oster, that would be good. In many ways, you know, with the route of, let's say, you happened to lose to Donny Gull, would you think, from your manager perspective, you could have gone to the group stage a lot fresher? Would that help your telt in Null Ireland ultimately? Well, look, I think, ultimately, it might get hard. He's the sort of man we know always sets out to win the ring he's entered into. I think they'll obviously want to keep him in. They'll want to beat Donny Gull, they'll not want to lose at home. They'll want to hang on to their Oster title. But, yeah, you're right. If they were to lose either to Donny Gull or an Oster semi-final, would it really be a bad thing? Probably not, OK? They could take a few weeks, re-group, and make a serious telt when it comes to the All-Ireland group stages. Like, that is where Derry are at in terms of, you know, that's the ambition. The players all throughout the league campaign and in the interviews I've listened to, they've talked about the fact they want to be All-Ireland defenders, they want to play on the ladder stages in the championship. They'll be beaten now in two All-Ireland semi-finals. The next step for them is trying to get to All-Ireland final and try to win Sam. But, look, I think, personally, you know, Dublin were a fair bit out in front and it would take Dublin to have a really bad day for anybody to turn them over at the minute. But, look, that's for further down the line, I suppose. Yeah, definitely. I was just laughing, Paddy, the way when Dublin weren't going well, Desi Farrell was getting all the grief. And when they are going well, there's not a word about Desi Farrell, it's about the players, you know, there's different teams. Paddy, just last question here, and listen, thanks again so much for taking the time there to talk to us. Paddy, last question, just on Hart and Devlin. Do all the furor when they came on? Has Hart got the Derry passport? Now, has he been accepted across the county? Because, you know, it was such, I suppose, an unusual coming into the job and, you know, you had a few goals at him from different people, namely, of course, the shot from Brawley and that, which I thought was out of order. But what's the feeling now? Is it basically he's doing a job and doing a good job and get on it? Look, there's mixed opinions, there's always going to be, from a personal point of view, I still find it strange to see him along the line with the Derry fractures my Derry had on him. Yeah. The guy, I was one of the players that played and that area where he managed against us. People were brought up to hate for all. You know, that was just the way of it. So it's strange to see, you know, McGearty's such a throne figurehead, Stan and a Derry dugout. But look, the players, just the nature of the way players are and how professional they be about things, they're just focused on playing football, one-on-one matches and trying to win cups and trophies. So as long as the team's doing well, you're not going to hear too many people criticise them. Look, again, it'll be judged not on a league campaign, it'll be judged on how Derry do in the championship. If Derry don't happen to, you know, reach the targets that they've set for themselves in terms of retaining an oyster title or getting at least to an all-around semi-final, which they did in the last couple of years, you can imagine the nice will be out for them, you know? That's just the nature of football, it's a sport, it's a results business, it was obviously a big risk by the Derry County Board to appoint them. And in a few months time, we'll find out whether or not they've got that right or not. Yeah, yes, indeed, Pally, we really look forward to it, there's a fascinating oyster championship coming in, down the track, Celtic Park, myself and yourself will be sitting maybe not too far away from that one. Pally, it'll be good to catch up you and we hope may the best team win as the man says. No, no, well, our Britain, they're really looking forward to it and say, you know, the leagues are for penning. It was well, that was the way I was brought up and obviously championships, what it's all about. So, you know, that the real games begin now in a couple of weeks now. Yeah, well, that was it. Pally, listen, first class, I'll catch up you then, man, and thanks again for joining us this evening. Yes, that's our Pally, hey, hitting the perch around, man. We don't hit the wrong there now, so, but now, Clary's in the studio now, you don't hit the wrong, do you? No, no, I don't hit the wrong. Sorry, Nell, I need to give you a bit of a make-down so that you, of course, you don't hit the wrong now. No, no, no, definitely don't. No reasons, have I? We have no reason, they know, we can sort the wrong man out, they do it. Nell's going to give us a little doubt on the County of Orleans scene at the minute after this break. Ladder Kenny, serving food you'll love till 9 p.m. daily in Sarah's Kitchen, and there's free admission entertainment every weekend. 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The DL Debate with Sister Sarah's Ladder Kenny, serving food you'll love till 9 p.m. daily in Sarah's Kitchen, and there's free admission entertainment every weekend. Yes, folks, welcome back again to say now Claree has joined us in studio to talk small ball. Now, considering the backstory of this league semi-final, it was the time to hold the legs of McDermott, Danny Cullen, these guys out injured, you know. How proud are you with the performance that Donegal gave against her own Sarah at the park? Yeah, very proud, Brendan. I think they'll be delighted to be down so many and not just so many numbers, but so many experienced players would have carried the can for Donegal for years there, for the younger lads to come in and step up and kind of make it their team as such for much of the league. It was a really big plus for Mickey and, you know, both of us were championships, but there'll be savage competition for places now. But yeah, they'll probably be coming away from it, disappointed not getting to the league final, you know, had their chances near the end and they could have been there. But overall, they'll be delighted with how the league went, I think. Yeah, look why they did that late opportunity. That would have sent it extra time. Yeah, that would have sent it extra time, I think. Yeah, he was like, it was a hard one. It was over in the sideline and it was 75, 80 metres. And then you're kind of, you know, you have the wind and everything to account for as well. And he's a great striker of a ball and he could have done it, but it was disappointing. But I think there was chances before that that they could have maybe taken as well. They did more wide in the second half there and they could have kept the momentum going there at a point that might have got over the line in the end. But yeah, 3-4, 85, 9, when you look at the score, and if we had a score of 5-9, you thought maybe we'd get lucky a few goals. We hung on there, but we were doing the hairmout of that first goal. Yeah, 17 scores to 14, I think kind of tells a little bit of story. I think Donegal probably did shade it overall on the hurling. Like even the Donegal goals, I think were kind of worked well, Tyrone were probably naive. Tactically, the middle was very open there. But the Tyrone goals, I think Donegal will be really, I know Mickie definitely will be really disappointed with those. You know, the first one turned over in the middle of the field and a couple of defensive errors kind of for a couple there and then Luke with an uncharacteristic mistake as well. You know, when you're giving away 5 goals, I know there'll be a lot of video worked on that during the week. Because you've got obviously to draw up in a few weeks back, but then, you know, the London, the two performances of London against Tyrone and London against us, look like certainly we were going to be the better side as the season went on, you know, particularly at home, like you would think if we had our full side there. At the weekend now, we had to definitely, listen, I know not definitely, but we certainly, if you look at it, trying to read those last couple of matches, we look like we're maybe in a better place control. Yeah, I think so. And it's strange, because Tyrone will be up in the Christy ring this year and Donegal will be in the Nicky record. But personally, I would feel probably Donegal are definitely on a par, maybe a step ahead overall. I think the league has been good at Donegal, bringing on new players. And yeah, definitely, I thought they performed like that. That's a big thing about Mickie's kind of rain, I suppose, is that the consistency throughout their performances, even when they're down players, somebody else comes in, does the job and they're competitive in nearly every game.  This man, he will throw in the towel, but kept at it and kept at it. So definitely, I think it's in a really good place at the moment and good young players coming through. Kieran Kern there from Burt, got a full league under his belt, Peter Kelly from St. Unions, you know, 2-2 with the weekend. He's only, he's just out of minor, I think. I actually taught Peter when he's in fifth class, that's how young he is. You know, if he's doing that when he's 17, 18, it'll be really interesting to see how his career progresses. Yeah, unless it was a harsh day, like we were down to mark. Now, you just mentioned me about the cold hand, again, in effect, the ball handling there. Yeah, it was a funny old game, wasn't it? Like, there was a lot of kind of, I felt, anyhow, there was a lot of mistakes and handliners, hand passes, ball's been dropped. And, you know, it probably was very cold down on the pitch and I was just listening to Radio One on the way home, the Limerick match that evening and they were kind of saying similar. So it could be put down to that, you know, that the weather, it can be very cold on the hands. I don't know if there's any way to counteract that for what the boys do at halftime, but it definitely could have affected the quality of the game, I think. Yeah, yeah, by the time we left the park, I tell you what, it was, the shivers was on me. Tell me, the way the league now has changed, three teams are going up and is that, is every league doing the same, is every side of the league doing that? There's a similar, yeah, there's similar, so it goes, there's one, there's still going to be a 1A and a 1B. And that's made up of the teams who are already in 1A and 1B, I think, but it's more streamlined or something. And then you have, you have Division Two on its own, so you'll have Donegal, Tyrone, and Derry are going up, and then you'll have, as far as I know anyway, you'll have Meath, Kildare, Down and Kerry.  And that's probably what Donegal wants.  You want to be seeing that progression and to have a chance now to do it. And yeah, it'll be an exciting year next year, tough, challenging, but exciting at the same time. And from your time playing, now the evolution of that from a time when 2B was maybe a B bit of a step too far, how has Donegal progressed so much compared to teams around them? You know, everybody wants to progress, but it looks like our progression is moving at a quicker pace and a lot of sides around us. Yeah, when I came up first, it was 3A anyway, we were in, we won that, I think, in 2017. So like anything, there's probably a pile of things coming together at the right time. There was a good core group of lads there, Lee Henderson, Ciaran Matheson, Joe Boyle, Sean McFade, Danny Cullen, Kevin Campbell, they were all there. Then you had an influx of a few boys from outside, you know, Declan Coulter joined from Aramaa. You'd look quite coming in from Wexford, Daven Flynn from Tipperary, Michael Donahoe from Galway. I think that probably drove up the standards as another element, and then Mickey coming in was probably a big thing, the improvement in the setup, just more professional, higher expectations, holding it to a higher standard. Like when I came in first, I'd say maybe 50% of the panel would have committed to the S&C or the gym or stuff like that. The county board was scratching their heads, giving boys memberships in the aura, and aura telling them at the end of the year it was used 10 times, you know, this kind of thing. Whereas now 90, 95% of the players are bought into it like, and it has to be that way. So that's probably why, like a combination of those things. And then the work in the clubs, like you can see eight senior clubs, every club represented, definitely a lot of work going on. And there's something, like anything now, you could see that obviously the skill level in Heartland number one, but unless you have the power now, you know, we've seen that, we've seen that right across the board.  So the county thing now is going up and up. As you said, there's probably is a bit of a thing, you know, the experienced players then pushing down on the lads, this is the way it has to be. And then either you're in or you're not. I suppose if it's that level, when if it's kind of left up to certain lads, don't really have it in them to go and push it. Whereas once the group has that collective there, you can really start to go after things. If Mickey's going to progress, as you said, sorry, having skill and half decent players or good players, everybody has to be at least the fitness level of the teams around you. Yeah, definitely.   So, and that'll be another step on the ladder that they'll have to achieve. But it's kind of normal now for young lads coming in like Conor Gartland or Lee McKinney or Stephen McBride, them young lads, they're looking up to the other lads and they're all doing it. So it's become normalized now. And then I think it's probably happened underage now as well, where, you know, you've good management teams with under 17s, down to 20s, down to 15s and they're getting exposed to that kind of high performance thing, which is great to see as well that the hurlers are getting it as well and they're committed to it themselves as well. So yeah, definitely very important. The skills in Hurlands always going to be number one, but you still have to be able to keep up with your opponent and you have to be able to compete physically as well. Or I'll have to be open 24 hours a day. Are you saying that it's a big thing from the better teams, the conditioning? It isn't that it's just teams, maybe good players, skillful players, obviously, if they're a league up, but would you notice the conditioning as in the players are physically more developed, is it, or faster, stronger, a bit of both? Yeah, I think you can see it like when Donegal go to play down to a full-down team or if we went to play clear over the years. Sometimes you might, we would probably pride ourselves on having good hurlers and that would be our strength.  But I think Donegal has come on a long way and I think at the weekend I actually thought in the first half, Donegal looked really fit like against that win, looked really well conditioned, were able to carry the ball, you know, against the wind and get themselves on the front foot. So I think they are, and I know they've a really good S&C coach in there, Shane, for the last few years, which helps having the same fella, a bit of continuity and stuff. Yeah, this one is very important. How much do you think, then, they're missing another game against Derry, which is kind of a good barometer of good on that league? Is it something that we needed or is it not that big of a deal, maybe pick up a couple injuries, go in there, the Niki record? I think ideally, yeah, they would have liked to have another game because it's another game, especially for those younger lads, less experienced lads, and maybe a couple of lads coming back from injury. But also, I'm not sure when the first round the Niki record is, but I think it's pretty soon. So I don't think they'll be too disappointed either.  So overall, they'll be delighted with that. Yeah, April 13th, Armaa, what would you make in me? I mean, is that a quick question of us maybe playing Derry that Armaa is going to be trying to get up to your level? Well, that's it. Traditionally, Armaa would have, I suppose, always been better than Donegal up to the last five or six years. So they'll definitely still, there'll still be an element of that in their mindset that they won't want to lose to a Donegal team and it'll be, it's easy to be the underdog going into games, isn't it? You know yourself, there's no pressure on you, whereas when you're the favourite, you're carrying the favourites tag now, carries a little bit of different pressure. So, but I would say, yeah, I think Donegal probably will be looking at that and hoping to get off the Niki record with the win. Yeah, perfect. And tell me, were you on this holiday, were you? No, I wasn't on the holiday. No, I'm the sensible one. You have to kind of keep your distance a little bit, but no, I was, I'm told it was a good warm weather training camp over there. I don't know what they were training for. The training camps and inverted brackets, I think they're like this and they, but listen, bought a season for the club and well deserved. Yeah, yeah, look, it's well and truly over and done with now. Packed, it's in the rearview mirror and we were back at it last week, so. That's fighting talk now, yeah, that's fighting talk. Oh, that's it. We'll continue this conversation when the club kicks in. And now, for now, thanks so much for wrapping up the holiday. 100%. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. We'll be back with more in the tunnel after this break. The DL debate with Sister Sarah's Laddercanny, serving food you'll love till 9pm daily in Sarah's kitchen. And there's free admission entertainment every weekend. Don't miss the BAFTA Award-winning comedian Michael McIntyre's brand new show, Magnificent at the SSC Arena Belfast on Friday, the 31st of May, 2024. As always, Highland Radio make it easy for you as we look after all your needs. We will provide luxury transfers overnight stay at the Clinton Hotel Belfast on a B&B basis, your ticket to the show, shopping time in Belfast City Centre. For more information, go to the outlet at highlandradio.com or give us a call on 07491 25,000. Michael McIntyre in Belfast. This Easter, the children of Palestine should be colouring eggs, looking forward to a feast of traditional dishes and spending time with extended family. Instead, they are afraid, separated from their families, and they are starving. People in Ireland say they want to do something to help, but don't know how. This Easter, join Boher in providing the gift of humanitarian aid to people in Palestine. Please, give within your means. It can mean so much at Boher.ie. 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Listen, you do. Listen, we trust you a lot, Mo. Don't worry about that, Mo. Tell me, can you give us an overview of the league for this? And finally, starting a good note away to Tipperary, a good victory for our women's team. What did you make of the league and John McNulty's first shot at it?  Wasn't it? Especially with such a long journey down to Tipperary, you know, gives them a bit of hope going forward. And it's a long wait now to the next game, but wrapping up the league. Look, I think it is where it is. And, you know, if I was looking at the team from last year, going on now this year, and I would have thought I would have expected, maybe, you know, that was he lost in so many experienced players and trying to regroup and transition, you know, that it was going to be difficult. And I mean, maybe the shot at getting under division one was maybe above expectations. And to be honest, I think the arrow where the arrow and it's a good place to be. And division two, I mean, they performed all right, considering throughout. What was it?  And John McNulty said this himself. They lost, killed there, and they lost to Tarone. And both those teams now are in the division two final, Brandon, in April now. So I think it's in a couple of weeks time. And like, when you lost out to them two top teams, look, they lost two, drew one. I felt those were three games that Donegal definitely could have won, maybe had a bit more firepower up front. But, you know, look, wrapping up the league and the finish third overall. And that one against a very yesterday where, you know, Donegal weren't weren't ahead, maybe, until maybe six minutes left to the end of the game. Like, so it was a real battle and real the real grit of the Donegal side that you know, you're used to seeing. And it was great to come away just with the one point victory look, but it could have been different. I've said it all year, Claire Frail has been phenomenon and that's she saved them. I won't be one of the last couple of minutes. And what could have, what was a one point victory could have easily been a two point defeat as well. But it's really, really good. And look, I think it's a good place to be, Brandon, in division two, it is hard to get out of it. But I don't think they're ready just yet to go up to division one. So, you know, another year or two in division two, it'll really, really tell. Like, if you look at Armagh, they've gone up to division one. The top division one's up on now. They're in the league final against Kerry in a couple of weeks as well. And they have been in division two for a long time, Brandon. So it's not going to do Donegal any harm. It's been, it's been a good campaign, I think, throughout for them. Yeah, that's the most always interesting because you always want to go up. But then as you're saying there, if you end up a wee bit too early, it could hamper you in terms of if you do a couple of beatings, it could knock you back particularly if you're developing a new team. Yeah, like if I look, if I had to say that Armagh would have went up a couple of years ago, I don't think they were ready to go up. They have really been battling really hard in division two. And like just last year, one of the division two final, up the division two, one as I say this year, but they've been really putting in the work, building a solid, a solid side. And, you know, of course, everyone will say Emmy Macon carries the side there, but Kerry in the Hanlins in there as well. She's a really experienced player, you know, Maconville and their players that have been there for years, experienced behind them. They've worked this new group of young players into the mix and now they're competing against the Dublin's and the Kerry's and the Galways up there in division one. And that's come from playing really tough football in division two, Brendan. So like in terms of are you ready? Everybody wants to go to division one, but is Donik all ready for division one just yet?  And listen, it's lovely to get a day out in Crow Park in division two final at the end of the year. You know, with two teams going up this year, there's, you know, so the two teams in the final would go up. And it's like I say, I just think maybe another couple of years or a year or two in division two is definitely going to do this and they got a team on that. So, you know, this isn't finishing third in it. There are no new relegations in division three, so that's very, very promising. Finishing third on to the two leaders. I think that's good too, you know? I would be happy with that. Stable, I think that seems smart enough in terms of how this has to play out. Well, tell me, the development of these players, you know, our miners had a great victory last week. They are 3-15 to 2-6 against Turon. You know, we've talked a bit on the raids at Steglam and Dermott side. You know, that's a brilliant victory, high scoring as well. Is the development coming from on the raids? Is it coming from our clubs or is it coming from them getting into the county squad and then being developed on? Where is, where does, or is a mixture of it all? Yeah, I think it's what you said there, that. I think it's a mix of everything, to be honest. I think a lot of work has to be on a club level to be quite honest with you. And the clubs have really built up over the years, like, you know, and we go back to this at swings and roundabouts and terminus at the top and senior units were at the top for long in the club scene in Glenfan and Maville have been the teams to watch, you know, but you've done low underage coming into the mix now. I mean, that comes from, like, the experience of Tony Boylan there and he's working with the young people and people that, you know, do the command respect at club level as well. And, you know, it's all voluntary work and it's long and it lights out and it's commitment and it's coming from that at club level. And I think then it's particularly important then when you go to county development that, you know, you're not playing at C or B level. If you're playing in the top tier level at underage, I think you have to get to that level, you know, you can one C championship, you know, one B championship, but when you go into senior football, you're looking to be playing at the top levels, you know, intermediate and senior and it's a huge step up if you're playing C, C championships at underage. So, you know, it's great to see Declan and the team and the miners there doing really, really well this year and they're playing top tier championship football. And I think that's going to read benefits down the line for the likes of, you know, you've seen players like Abigail Ahsoko coming out of the minor panel, like, and, you know, Eva Gellars in there this year, Keri Doudes has really made her mark at senior level as well. So, you know, and that's coming from the development and underage and the huge amount of time put in there. So what it really is a mix of the clubs getting involved and then, you know, you really have to trial these players. I think it's very important to open the whole thing up as a trial basis and watch these players and go to the games. If you're a manager and a keen manager and see players and don't be afraid to take new players in later on in the panel as well, because you might have missed somebody earlier on and you have the chance to develop them as well. So I think it's good that way too. But yeah, it's certainly coming on at minor level. Yeah, brilliant. Well, this is a lovely talk. Always the enemy of the show is the time. Here we're down the last minute. Well, you just mentioned High Fly and Irma. May 19th massive break into that that we're really up against it and opening round, are we? Listen, I do believe so. Like, if you look at the regions of games, they're just in the past. Those profiles, like, you know, marginally, I mean, it's all been a battle with Irma, but with Irma playing in the division one this year and what the panel players that they have, they're very strong, you know, they're very good. But listen, you know, League football is very unpredictable, Brendan, we both know that. It's hard to call any game. I thought that would have been Monahan, but then again, they drew against them and so on so forth and I thought Irma would have been better against them than the last day. But it's just, it's so unpredictable. So, you know, listen, and it's a chapter final and finals are always different. So Brendan, look, we will hold the hope and that John McNulty's side will go out a strong side out against Irma. And again, it's almost a final. So there's a title added to one and that makes it very, very different. Perfect, Mo. Thanks a lot. Listen, I'll be talking as the season goes on. Thanks for joining us this evening. No problem. Superb, Brendan, chat to you soon. Always good to chat to you, Mo, there. Folks, that's a wrap up, then, the show. Thanks so much for tuning in. Now on Highland Radio, Joe Dex is waving up me here. Time up, and Jimmy and Paul are coming on. Jimmy and Paul, Paul wants to chat about Thrones 21. Point to feet, the Dublin, but you'll have to explain that when he gives it himself, folks. With the league finals next week, I'll be back. We'll round up all the acts and play. Respect you, then.


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