Hi, YouTube. Welcome to our living room. We're the October's today. We're checking out up. It came out in 2009 It was directed by Peter doctor and it was a 98% on rotten tomatoes, baby Have you seen this? So I ain't never seen this man, but I know one thing my oldest son skip this movie Yeah, anyways, I put this movie on for him once and he just didn't like it We never put it on again. A lot of people are really into this movie. I've never seen it. I don't really watch too many cartoons Man, I'm gonna keep it really honest with you But we're very open-minded on this channel man We're down to check out anything anywhere anytime. Yo, if you want to get that unedited that uncut that raw junk If y'all want to see the genuine reaction go spend $5 man go drop $5 over on patreon as soon as we get done Recording these we're dropping over there. So they'll be up there tonight guys get that access. There's no special Limitations $5 you get everything. This is up. This is highly anticipated a lot of guys Wanted to see this so let's go. Let's go. I'll be honest. I can't wait to watch a Disney movie I can't believe I haven't when to ebcot and ate everything Wow, I like the way this is filmed already.  I don't need dogs in this What is it Dang they got live footage of that He really did promise that direct quote Like what I didn't expect this to be about any of that I just thought it was someone floating on balloons the whole movie I Love the kid's imagination He don't met a girl with an imagination bigger than him She said one up I'm already getting teary-eyed about this for some reason I She came off pretty strong to not bite She looks like she bit something and broke a tooth off. Mm-hmm. Oh, maybe she's missing a tooth Maybe hasn't grown in yet. Oh, I'm saying is he might just be like dang. She's a biker. What do you do break his legs? Something oh his arm. Oh, that was his right arm, too That girl's bad news. I know sneaking into the room at age of six or whatever Girl he said Dang What's he thinking of blimp? This seems like it's not consensual at all The stressful now. He's gonna try to fall asleep Sounds familiar. Oh, he can talk not be running this mouth Oh, they get married. Why this is making me already emotional. Yeah, you're right. It's sad He said this is In the wedding dress They're so cute That's why I just feel like something bad's gonna happen. So I'm like pre-crying baby You know something bad doesn't have to happen in every does it does. What is this happy? I wonder what that what the happiest movie of all time It was probably not a movie. That's coming in trust it. Yo, let us know in the comment session What's the happiest movie you've ever seen a movie where like nothing really bad happened? Is there a movie like that? Or is every movie the exact same, you know what I'm saying they have to disappoint me in some He's stressed out. Oh, he was happy That's what I'm saying something bad is about to happen. Oh, no, baby. Well, there goes He said I love you anyways, baby. Don't worry about it. He's like how we can't apply our blimp with babies I don't need purpose. That's what's up paradise falls three nickels. Oh Oh Man, I really wish that's all you had to do to save up to go to paradise falls They keep having to break into it. Oh, oh No, bro, that's life for real man. That's just how it is.  Oh, no, we got old bro. They made it yet. Oh, baby No, are you crying mom? You only get your tissue in maybe Oh, they put this they put the dream on the show literally. Yeah, you know, why not man sell it all and doesn't go Just go. He said we about to go baby. Did even ask her. She's down. They're so Struggling up the hill, baby. I know they're so cute. It's hurting. It's breaking my heart. Oh, no. Oh No, why did I know that was gonna happen? Dang look the house ain't colorful no more like everything's dark faded out It kind of looks like everybody in my family So do this show is kind of brilliant so far so it's telling me it's all downhill from here for him This is what this is like symbolizing right here, right? I don't know But it's her whatever it symbolizing it's breaking my heart kind of like when they had the the fall savings jar They shelved it like yeah, they put it on a shelf. Oh, it's for life now. Why are you doing too bad? I mean, I know there's so sad that she left but he's still getting That's fine. What's that from? She gave it to him. Oh, did she earlier? Yes She gave it to him when he broke into her that house What the No, is he squatting or they like gonna try to take it man. That's tough. That's how it is Oh Yeah, I mean that might be the easier route here, but this wouldn't be Disney now. What if I'm gonna be He's watching him talk about look at down wins Help you cross the street Well, he's just trying to get a badge in the bold I need this badge Shouldn't be like the easiest one to get I don't know it looks like he picked the wrong one No For those of you who don't know this is like a old trick Yeah, my dad left me in the middle of the woods like two in the morning one time Yeah, that was like simple times when you're looking for a site that didn't exist.  I'm gonna be aggressive. He just beat the mess out of that man. Dang. Look at look at those guys I don't know. They look so...alien or something. Oh my god. Dang. He might be concussed.   His come on man that old man. He's just the old man.  Oh, he said mm-hmm Because you got a hard hat in a suit on They're trying to take that man's whole house from him.  Oh, not Shady Oaks. The shadiest of us. He's got to be like Shady It's always like because it ain't no good when it's Shady. To be honest dude that house I'd be ready to get up out there.  There's no one talking to me 24 7 3 65 Yeah, I'm sure I'll just love that one. Maybe you'd be like I can finally hear myself think no Are you about to cry? Cuz I'm not a shy boy, you know shot a day. I might see a tear. That's about it About all I'm gonna let y'all get right now, but if you get on the patreon.  I don't know if y'all know my boy be swinging Oh, he was right. Oh, he's going good morning. Mr.  Yes helium. Oh Here goes this here goes why it looks like that on the title. I was wondering how I was gonna lead into that I had no idea So he basically spends his life saving on balloons maybe their savings are I guess he's just hoping he makes it there What do you even say why why didn't you bring mr. Fredrickson?  I missed those on the montage of his life.  Oh the way Scott. Mm-hmm. He didn't get his badge Oh here. He's gonna get it now. He's about to catch a charge. He's not new and he even mean to that's how the end of this Maybe he's about to be two time minutes. Oh Bless his heart what kind of I wouldn't have even asked. He's so adorable So are you so what do you do? That is so scary dude what that okay My papa used to do that So my papa lived his life like that. Yeah, he's just turning up and down. That's cool.  Well, you kind of knew that flying in the sky You know something bad was about to happen. Nothing. I took the plates down and put them in a box until I got there or something What's it gonna do when you're in there? Cat size on a beach might not be the like worst thing.  What the heck? Where's down here? He just threw it out the window do you think eventually that hit someone in the head they could do they die That's so scary. Oh, he's bringing it down boy the clouds How much longer What was it? I don't know like a rock or something. Good thing it stopped like it was on a runway. We both got crushed by a house See, baby, that's why you don't cheap out on the um the hoses. Yeah, exactly just in case the house flies away He needs to pull out that book and start writing some of this stuff down. Yeah, he's going an extra mile for this dude Well, no, no, it does not I can't even tell you like Ireland Oh, that's it right there. No way. No way. They just landed it at that. What if it's just a billboard? That's perfect They're right where they want to be Man, I believe that that's just a billboard. There's no way that he just Miraculously did that right? I would much rather live down there though. No at the top top. It's kind of ugly Oh my gosh, that would be cool to be there actually. It's so beautiful You mean assist you Now he had strength to climb up like that. Oh No, he didn't Yeah, he is in the dead side. Yeah, why can't he just walk and then pop all them things? I don't know.  Yeah, I guess so.  I mean they could just tie the house off He's just trying to assist mr. Frederick's in he's probably get eaten up in the middle of the jungle That looks so delicious, but what's up with this night? That's no little tonight Oh, did he write it back?  That's so scary It's playing with him. Yeah, cuz he's about to eat him. No, he's not Mm-hmm Kevin What would it He might get hit with that cane deal. Got him. I Would ask that bird to help me carry the house. Yeah, right strap it up. Yep No way you have that much chocolate put any selling it or something. Oh, yeah, I made that up. She agreed with me Oh No, it was his wilderness bad. He wasn't selling it Was that I don't know tricked us up You remember what you said if the dogs in what they're talking to me, yeah, they're not mean in this house They gotta go that'd be so weird and scary even if they had a collar. Yeah, and they could talk The bird He reminds me of Pumba And it looks like you Pumbies He said hey follow me on patreon boy. Yeah, hit us up on the patreon Look at them What a squad he's got I'm stuck with you I do like he said we're gonna lose him. I don't know why he's wanting to move here. He hates the jungle Don't he ain't navigating it very well. Oh Kevin's gonna miss just floating up the rock.  Look at the way it's sleeping like a flamingo I Don't you super wilderness guy with the GPMs in the bed Why didn't you ask your dad how to build a Too much you call your own mother by her first name Come to my explore ceremony to pin on my assisting the elderly badge He can show me about tense then right? Oh, thanks a little dude You think a lot of attitude change now you think that's the moment maybe I'd be nicer to the kid with the birds Oh He can't that's him in Ellie's thing. Oh, he's asleep. No, even matter Oh, he did have an attitude change, but then he looks at those things.  No, I don't need to eat the bird I'm saving the bird because those dogs are trying to Tony Like some pretty pebbles. I'm about to eat that thing. They're hungry. Maybe they're hungry. They're not hungry They're eating chocolate. That's the only thing they had to live on. No, they had the all that upstairs Oh Well, it doesn't matter you didn't even have it so don't you mean a dog? Yeah, I have them dogs tell you what to do. Oh, look at Doug. He's so defeated The bird needs to help out. No, they're trying to after the bird though because at the beginning remember They said it's rare. That's why that whole Charles months dude He was like hit that's how him and Ellie got together. They were trying to be explorers like the guy on the blimp to find that rare bird He's not coming back until he finds this bird. Oh We thought three was a lot oh That's a guy right there isn't I knew he's gonna come back some somehow. Oh He's mocking them low-key.  Oh Doug still hurt. Oh, no, he's gonna do that to the bird It was like There's some good dog I'm not eating dinner from them You she had this dream to come down here and live by paradise falls. I'm honored and now you've made it You sure we're not a bother. That's pretty cool to meet your life. Is this a dream? Is this a dream? Do you think this really happened? He's a word tree often I get thieves to steal what's rightfully mine. No, they called me a fraud Once I bring back this creature, my name will be cleared. It's Kevin. Oh, I've spent a lifetime Sometimes years go by can't go in after it Once in there's no way out lost so many dogs. He's like, oh, yeah, that's on my house right now Chilling the bird is theirs to take and find at this mountain. It's a very dangerous place Follow you possible He said I know you on to me No, you can't give up Kevin.  He's just so he has no idea what's going on. Oh my gosh This is a Disney movie or a horror movie.  Kevin's been running from him.  What about the dog get the dog Yes, Kevin. There we go. Finally. That's what I was saying. That's what I would do Kevin says y'all my dogs now But to keep it a hundred he had a hell of an adventure today Yeah, a hundred percent whether it's his last one. He's lucky that house didn't even have to get off the ground He got it all the way to a different country You know, this makes me think of when he said on it ran through the road the other day That gravel was beat up. Well, I said a onyx don't ran through here Oh He's good. He's okay. I had no idea Small man man. Look at Doug though. We didn't the pack. No, you can you can fly though. Don't grab the dog No, Doug's going to Doug.  Yeah, basically Is he alright? You can't die now. Give him some chocolate.  Oh, man. What are you gonna do? Ellie would want you to do it. Would she?  No, I'm talking about the guy I have dog doggy colors. Finally meet my childhood. He already started kill us.  It is funny because the squirrel gets dead. I hate that joke You name right Then we sit on this one curb right outside, I'll count all the blue cars He counts all the red one but we're used to most This is sad story That might sound boring, but I think the boring stuff is the stuff. I remember the most. Oh my gosh He's having a good time now until the blue. Oh my god No way this Disney movie's gonna do me like this. Oh, that's a week Now this dude has to have a showdown with his hero. It's Kane Wars.   Oh, it's war now. Vietnam style, baby No, you need to save Kevin because that's who you got now No You have to let go how they're about to save this bird Breaking bad while putting out the fire. Yeah. Yo, man, check out our breaking bad episode You meanie Kind of sucks for him too because I mean he's really just whole I should do this and they've kind of missed it all I know but like just help out the bird and the dog for a minute Like Ellie's not going anywhere. She's floating on the balloons and she wouldn't want him to do it I think the problem is the house is about to burn down. They're gonna be stranded in the jungle. Let me tell. Oh, well Oh, well, that's your new adventure survivor. Okay.  You got to rebuild it anyway at this point. Yes. It's taking quite some damage Oh, he can't get over that can he? Nope. Wow. Oh, he's at it. I mean, that's where he's at. That's where he used to be Yeah, but I mean are you satisfied? I don't want this anymore. That's right. I love Russell He said bump this bad. You don't care. So what you're gonna do now gramps just live up in there I don't think he has a plan B. Does he? He's gonna live with the bird. No, he's just left the bird I mean, I don't really know what else he's supposed to do though.  I don't know I was about to say what are you guys a guardian? They don't want this old man just showing up hanging out with him all the time. He just kidnapped him Hey, I don't know took him to South America. It wasn't his fault. He was assistant an elderly found a pigeon His name is Herbert. This is it. Oh, that is so sweet. Are you crying? Oh Oh That was the sweetest note ever. What's this? I said, thanks for the adventure now. Go have a new one Makes me cry more than any movie of all time. Yes, I think so You let him go before No, he's brave He earned every one of them badges. Did you have a leaf blower? Yeah Just give it a whining That's what it feels like. Yeah Yeah, currency isn't good here. I probably would have kept that one None of the chain he was hype. Oh, here's his new adventure.  Oh, he was excited to see him He is oh no, don't get close to the propeller, please He is literally so cute. It wouldn't believe me.  Oh, my friend anymore Raindrickson None of your mailman friends can hear you alpha. Raindrickson's coming back. They're about to have like an air battle No, yes, they are. How are they gonna do that? Nice talking with them. I'm not finished with you Where are you?  He's about to fall right into the kitchen any yep the hose. That's why you don't skip on it He's still with that.  That was fine I'm getting Kevin. I don't want your help. What do you say? I love his attitude change this character development Having quit his ball. Oh, they didn't use a tennis ball. That's what I would have known. They didn't close it back either Who wants the ball? Oh, there you go. Yes. That would be all our dogs. It's that Puma There's the saddle deals. He can't hold himself up.  Look at his feet Did you see his face too? He like did a little legs. He was feet Oh, no, uh, I know I bet he wish he had crocs on right now. No way those I didn't know I love this Dart Oh my god That's a good boy Yeah, aw A sword like how is he gonna use a sword on this man like that the extended open boy. Did he cut him open? No, but that's a weapon. He's gotta hit him when he hit that one Oh, no The dentures, then he's destroying all of his things So you gotta wax wings Oh I said fossils. Is someone like some fossils right? That scared me. I thought he was out of there. Oh, you about to ride kevin kevin's wings are like this I bet I doubt kevin can fly. No, kick him. No, don't hurt her dog And in the voicing That's a sight right there He has athletic badge Ain't nobody at his boy scouts about to believe him. Oh, no They're all right. They got parachutes That used to be like the squad you didn't want and now it's the squad you definitely went No, oh no, how did you let him make it up?  Well, you still are he was never there. I didn't see a bird What bird? Yo, let us know if y'all seen that bird Because I didn't see one Yes, bye-bye Yeah, he's gone now. Yeah, I swear if he comes back, this is not a real real movie. This movie is no way It's a real story. That's what's gonna draw that line for you. So this was basically a documentary until this one Oh character development moment Oh You just gotta love them. They're so cute, but they're gonna grow up and look so goofy It didn't mess with You know what keep them They said live your life Kevin. Is that what they said basically they told Kevin to live his life Oh, now they have all the dogs. I won't trust those dogs Oh, they upgraded damn something tells me that he's gotta have a license or something to drop that or Extreme mountain Good job, Brandon Like that person was defensive animal lords and their queen is a whistle Yeah, he earned his today Oh Why do you have to do that because I wasn't gonna cry if he just put the normal one on she's like, what is that?  Oh you Uh-oh She edits My new that's so cute. Oh, baby. I love this movie. This was a like you're not thought it'd be I know it was a good one So thanks for that cried way too many times How'd you feel about that? Honestly, man? That was a really good movie I'm not even gonna sit here and try to pretend like I didn't love it. I enjoyed every minute of it I thought it was really cute. I appreciate everything about this movie. I really do I appreciate the message of it Just stay present people like just tell the people that you have in your life that you love them when you get a chance And then just just stay present man. Just oh It was just a good one was your favorite part I don't know. I guess maybe my favorite part was when he gave the bachelor the kid I mean that was obviously like the saddest part of the movie right now Because it was so sad, but it was such a feel-good sad. So Um, please don't be editing no tears. I know I was doing that. Oh, yeah I'll try not to if you enjoy Pixar movies, man If you enjoy Disney movies just anything like that let us know in the comment section because I'm telling you guys This isn't really my cup of tea There's a couple movies that my kids like when they're younger But it's definitely not ones we're gonna be reacting to on the channel because we've seen them So yeah, yeah, but just let us know what you guys like dropping the comment section This was a great movie. This was a really wholesome movie, man I hope that you guys enjoyed as much as we did. I guess we'll see y'all in the next video. Peace


All right, here I am James P. Madonna mega life 21 progressive discussions. I'm here at the Lovely and wonderful Roy Hibachi buffet rule 46 West Satterbrook, New Jersey It is good Friday 2019 It's yes, the holy week is here, and I'm gonna get some duck which appears to be succulent. I think I don't know if it's succulents succulents of fat and skin and bone, but it looks Looks okay. I give it a shot 99 cent ranch in Hackensack, New Jersey. I Believe it's a nationwide chain. I did a couple videos yesterday about Okay, let's see. Do I want to get chowmey fun yet? Not yet Pockle clams From the cockles of my heart. Oh They just put out fresh cod They just put out fresh cod filet See bakala over there before there was nothing, but it's very popular So I will thank you sir. I will get some scrod cod filet For a surf and turf consisting of cod and roast duck The duck that's out of luck, of course Look how fast the fish is going on good Friday. Look at that. This looks really good. Commodore Jeff Sanbella. Look at that Zupa de Mar the broth of the sea Gonna go to a lot of cod here. Let's see Steak and onions It might be well done though. I don't know You know, he marinates his meat, so I'm gonna give Why have room, I don't know Jeff Sanbella So it's gonna be a challenge getting around everything Get some nice Onions and I have to get a second dish and transfer That is quite a heap and helping of surf and turf On good Friday 2019 Yesterday was holy Thursday and Jesus washed the feet of the disciples and Okay now Well, you know how how it is a lot of people don't do not eat meat, but I Just couldn't resist what I saw I Don't even know if that observance is Still Respected in today's Christianity, but it might be just Catholicism about the they're refraining from me What is this turkey? Well, look at this bless their hearts turkey, but I don't have any more room on my plate turkey breasts, too But any luck, maybe they'll put out more if I'm lucky I'm lucky Okay, I got some Chinese food here general tizos chicken The general Chen whatever whatever he was if he was a real general I have no idea Commodore Jeff Sanbella and exorcist Bishop Brian the star of the travel channel show ghost adventures Give a shout out to exorcist Bishop Brian as well as Jeff Sanbella. Hey, the ice cream is full And it's not it's not messy Which is good. Sometimes it gets messy All right All right, I see papaya. I believe I see papaya and mango. Oh, I gotta I gotta get a shot of this I Gotta get a shot of this man. Look at this Look at this Is your papaya? There's a mango Is the kiwi fruit Shade head like Larry fine from the three stooges Except Larry fine was bald. He didn't have a shaved head, but and here we have New Zealand the green-lipped muscles and a decent amount of Calamari it looks like in the sequel so but I will come back and get the lemons Okay, but I do need a steak knife, though I do need a steak knife I Somebody tried is trying to sit in my on my table there. I don't know what's going on But Let me get the cobalt blue or midnight blue bowl Trying to get busy now I'm gonna have to get what I need Good all right We have to get what I get the lemons and I would have to retreat quickly to the sanctity of my Nice private table and of course the lemons again are behind the pole Jeff Sanbelle, they're behind the pole Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? It's fate or is it a conspiracy against James B. Madonna? I don't know Is it the fickle finger of a Jeff Sanbelle?  You know that Jeff I'm gonna need enough of my water and for the codfish and steak knife and here And lemons But I have to remember I have to remind myself it is a holiday Holy weekend What what? Yeah This the rough. Oh, this is my favorite napkin the rough kind It doesn't it doesn't break apart when you use it You know all these all these people they go out and they buy soft paper towels and soft toilet paper and You know and soft napkins and what happens when they use it. It breaks apart. You end up with dinghy berries in your button All right, so there we have a There we have a nice bird's-eye view Of course, the children are very unruly and undisciplined as you can hear in the background I'm gonna set this up for a nice photo opportunity Which is a lot nicer than a political photo opportunity Okay Let's see. What am I gonna do now? No, no hardcore sushi. Yeah Now There he is There's the king Very busy man. This is Good Friday 2019 King of Mongolian barbecue again Just the envelope vapors of life The vapors of life. Look at that He's now juggling with four separate orders What separate orders look at that busy guy? He receives sufficient amount of propena There's one finished product. Look at all that shrimp Shrimp, I believe beef and mushrooms This one is shrimp beef And now angel hair rice noodle Wow Duplicates really shrimp and beef combinations some with noodles and some without noodles The vapors of life Only here at Royal Hibachi buffet roof 46 West out of booking Jersey. This is holy week 2019 it happens to be Good Friday from Friday 2019 Extremely busy. I hope they they take care of him with sufficient Fair amounts of propena otherwise otherwise known as tip Okay now back to me See Wow the All that seafood bouillabaisse the shrub went right away. Look at it. It was so loaded before This is a big hit shows you how busy it is look Turkey Well, yeah, but it's a tender. Hold on is it tender? Definitely definitely busy here. I'll try I'll try some I'll try a slab Do I need to scoop up some of that juice? But I need to do it In a nice way Without getting scolded I have to come back with I'm gonna do this I got to figure out a way to get it Without getting yelled at maybe come back with a clean spoon Excuse me. It's gonna be a trick. It's gonna definitely be a little trick for me Yeah, I got to come back with a spoon to get some of that bad juice. Oh, yeah Okay, this is my work This is my work You work it's not the broth of the sea the broth of the gobble Commodore Jeff sandbill Drippings that sounds a little erotic, right Jeff sandbill Now Let's see. What am I gonna put on the side I? Could have put mashed potatoes, but that would fill me up and that would not Have been a wise choice Concerning Upper-fake See what kind of soup they have Vegetable soup now for peasants hot and sour soup. It's good if you have a cold, but Yeah, it's still peasant food Chicken and rice are definitely definitely for the common folk Definitely for all Look at this soup That's that's right.  You jabronis new neophytes You know what I'm saying you?  I've never done this before But it's a sperm in a moment decision. I mean spur in a moment. I'm sorry Good Friday 2019 a nice thick slab of turkey breast with drippings on it as my turf and crab soup soup as my surf Now I shall retreat to the table What what what a bunch of pusses on these people walking around no sense of humor no smile It's like dealing with lurch from the Adams family. Remember when he used to answer the door.  Okay. Here we go Okay, here we go side by side here. We got the serpent turf of crab soup and a thick chicken I mean turkey breasts. I'm sorry. I don't care people are watching me. They're all you know Some folks don't have any pizzazz or charisma for for show business, you know, what are you gonna do? Here we have Whatever papaya spears were left and a fresh cream Gonna have to set this up for a photograph Okay, but the very finest and Buffalo chicken hot wings Especially to go in bulk come to Royal Hibachi Buffet Route 46 West out of Brooklyn, Jersey Come in and stock up for your sporting events Private parties at home. It could be any sport events hockey basketball professional wrestling Boxing MMA baseball football regardless Come in and get the finest Buffalo Hot chicken wings to go for your private parties At the Royal Hibachi Buffet Route 46 West out of Brooklyn, Jersey Okay, now I'm gonna partake in some flan. It's like a slippery eel for God's sake It's like a slippery eel Of course, there's people breathing down my neck behind me waiting, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna get some ice cream as you can see the little kids mess it up They got this Radioactive blue cotton candy ice cream Vanilla because the parents let the kids run around and do anything they want They mess it all up This one is not too bad the yellow unbelievable, you know, they let the They let the kids mess it up This is modern-day parenting if I did that When I was a kid I would have got knocked out those spoons No more spoons.  I can't couldn't get the ice cream because the people were rudely pushing their way in This guy over here and his wife Right they messed up the ice cream They're trying to if I didn't have an injury I knock his ass out.  That's for sure This guy this this guy over here push this guy root root bastard One shot just one shot to the jaw. So that's all I need There's the same kid unsupervised They let him dig into the ice cream with no adult supervision It's the same exact kid over and over again, I mean the kid is slim.  I mean if I did that when I was his age I would have gotten knocked out Guaranteed old-fashioned discipline, you know Okay after the flan Decided to have See vanilla ice cream over That should be good for dessert healthy dessert Vanilla ice cream over papaya papaya is very good for stomach. Let's see. Yeah, you know what? This is a mess man. This is an absolute This is an absolute mess. I guess that's vanilla. I don't know Yeah, I Use this for a reason. I guess that's been all that's caught by show me the ice cream scoop That I know why I'm using this It's not something that I can probably you know publicly announced One thing if I did what if I did what the kids did here Big time it's another talk show It whammo no no hesitation. This has been a mega live 21 production


Pure Review, brought to you by CSUSB's John M. Fowl Library. When an author has completed a paper they would like to be published as a means of sharing their knowledge with the research community, they will likely submit it to a scholarly journal. These publications, common in academia, are also known as peer-reviewed journals. The first person to see the paper that has been submitted is the journal's editor. If they think the paper fits the journal's scope, they will then send it to two or more experts in the field. The experts will spend time looking up the content, the writing, the methodology, and more. These experts are also known as peer reviewers. Sometimes the peer reviewers give the paper a thumbs up. Sometimes they give it a thumbs down. However, most of the time they suggest to the editor that the author make revisions before the paper can be published. This is actually very common. After the revisions are made, time often passes before the paper is published in the peer-reviewed journal. In fact, it can sometimes take a year or more. When the paper has finally been published in the scholarly journal, it is now considered a peer-reviewed article. You can access peer-reviewed articles in the library, through the library's databases, and on rare occasions on the open web. Traditionally, peer-review has been a way to ensure that the information published in scholarly journals is of high quality. While this is usually true, some note that such a process prevents the world from hearing alternative perspectives, especially from those outside of academia. Thus, if you want to access multiple voices, it's a good idea not to limit yourself solely to peer-reviewed journals. If you supplement the information in scholarly articles with material from resources such as books, interviews, oral histories, or even blog posts, you can gain a richer and more nuanced understanding of a topic.


Thank you, everyone, for joining us. We know you had a lot of choices for publishing related sessions in this time slot, and so we appreciate you coming to ours. We're going to do some more thorough introductions in a minute, but just really quickly so you know who you're looking at. We have Melanie Schlosser, I'm the Community Facilitator for the Library Publishing Coalition, and the Scholarly Communications Program Leader at the Ejikopia Institute. Kate Cappi Mitchell from the California Digital Library, Charles Watsonsen from University of Michigan, and Joshua Nets-Fox from Wayne State. So this is what we called our presentation and what it says in the program. This is what we realized we should have called our presentation when we really started working on it. We're going to use this idea of sticky interdependence to talk about the development of a shared culture and shared infrastructure in the Library Publishing Sphere. Let's see. This is meant to be an actual panel discussion rather than a series of individual presentations. So I'm going to give some brief introductory remarks. We're going to give each of our panelists no more than five minutes to introduce themselves, their programs, and very briefly the platforms that each of them are developing. And then we're going to spend the rest of our time discussing a series of three questions. I'll say a little bit more about that in a minute. We will of course leave some time at the end for questions or for a wider discussion with you all. So to set the scene, I'm going to really quickly highlight four trends that I think provide some important context for this. None of this is going to be new, but I think it's all important to keep in mind as we're having this discussion. The first one is consolidation of research infrastructure by commercial publishers.  Allegra Swift, hi Allegra, did a really great job of laying out the problem in this space. So I'm sure it's not news to you that publishers have been buying up pieces of the research infrastructure to string together end-to-end solutions. And what we are talking about today is a portion of library's response to that, specifically in the library publishing space. I'm sure none of you would be here if you didn't believe that the challenges involved in creating, providing access to, and preserving digital content are bigger than any one library can tackle alone in a sustained way. One of the ways that libraries have dealt with this is the development of shared community-supported infrastructure. Obviously, there have been some challenges that have been highlighted in this recently. The deep-in announcement is one. But I still think, and we all share the belief that collaboratively supported shared infrastructure is still one of the most promising ways that libraries can push back against over-resourced commercial organizations that are able to purchase or develop giant platforms. This one, Academy Ownership. This isn't so much a separate trend as it is just a different lens of looking at these same issues. There is increasing interest in returning control of the scholarly communications enterprise to academic institutions. There've been some interesting recent examples. Last year, this event, there was a lot of talk about the 2.5% initiative. Last year's Library Publishing Forum pre-conference on open-source publishing platforms also made use of this lens. I'm helping to organize the first academic-led publishing day, which is a distributed digital event that's happening on February 7th. And I'm doing that mostly because I don't think that there's any kind of shared understanding in the space of what we're actually talking about when we say Academy Ownership, Scholar-led, of all of these different phrases. And I don't think we're gonna get anywhere until we get a better sense of what problem we're trying to solve and also how we're gonna do it. So I'm hoping that this conversation is part of a much bigger one about what does that actually look like and how can libraries advance that? At this point, I think library publishing isn't so much a trend as it is an established role for academic libraries. But I do think it's worth juxtaposing it with that last slide. I was tickled that Cliff Lynch included our session in his roadmap email, and I really love that he described library publishing as taking place under the radar. For the most part, the field is made up of practitioners who are just quietly getting things done on their campus, which I think is a strength, but it probably means that we have no one to blame but ourselves for the fact that when these discussions about Academy Ownership come up and taking control of the means of production of scholarship, library publishing is almost never mentioned, which is funny, because it's such an obvious fit in a lot of ways. So this session is in part an opportunity to explore what does that look like in a library publishing environment. And then really briefly about our sticky interdependence theme and the way we're gonna use that, we are gonna talk about, we're gonna discuss three different questions and three different ways that we see this coming up in the library publishing space, cultural alignment and integration. Actually, let me give you the longer one. So we're gonna talk about the development of a shared culture and values in the library publishing field, the alignment of library publishing efforts with partners both inside and outside of the library to move the needle in crucial areas, the development of a distributed but increasingly integrated infrastructure for scholarly publishing in libraries, and finally the challenge of sustaining collaborative efforts in this area. As first three, you're gonna get their own discussion topics, the fourth one, sustainability, we're gonna try to touch on that all the way through. If you don't feel that we've done so adequately, feel free to bring it up in the Q&A. Okay, with all that out of the way, we're gonna give each of our panelists a chance to introduce ourselves, our programs and our platforms. So first, Joshua. All right, so it looks like I'm first. I'm Joshua Netsbox. I'm at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. And I'm the coordinator for digital publishing in the libraries. I oversee our publishing efforts, our digital collections and our institutional repository in a small team of people. I also work closely alongside Dr. Sheryl Ball. Sheryl is one of the leads on the Vega project. Vega is an academic publishing system, primarily configured for web texts. Sheryl, with partner Andrew Morrison at the Oslo School of Architecture and Design, proposes project. It's a Mellon-funded and it comes out of her work in Kairos, which is the oldest extant scholarly journal publishing multimedia. It was the first to publish web texts online. And Sheryl's been the editor for something like 17 years at this point. And the pain points in that publishing process are the genesis for this project, that publishing multimodal scholarship that may have multiple moving parts and where the frame and structure of the actual web objects is part of the rhetorical argument being made that it proposes unique problems in the peer review and editorial process. And those problems require that the structures that undergird them be slightly different from the sort of out of the box scholarly publishing infrastructure that's available. And so Vega was designed with what I think are three chief advantages or unique points in mind. One is that the workflow, the editorial workflow of the system is entirely extensible and configurable. And so the stages of the editorial process from submission, you know, you would traditionally think of submission, peer review, copy editing, type setting and publication, those can be expanded or contracted, remixed, changed, new, entirely new structures dreamed of and the objects that go through peer review can move through those stages in a configurable manner. To the system takes advantage of affordances that make it relatively easy to integrate multimedia into the traditional web text or narrative. And so it's not difficult to do very simple multimodal web texts in Vega. And three, the system allows for forms of review that sort of go beyond the double blind. And so collaborative review, peer-to-peer review, open review, closed review, those are also available and configurable. And especially because in Kairos, Dr. Ball's experience was that the editing process is far more collaborative, that authoring structure for multimedia and the review structure are tied together in ways that allow authors, editors and reviewers to collaborate across the life of the project. Vega is built in JavaScript in Node with React front end and a MongoDB. And the front end and the back end are loosely coupled via API so that in theory, if you had a good understanding of the code underneath, you could build multiple heads on the back end of the project. And finally, I should say, point out that Vega's structure is such that as content is ingested into the system, native sort of cruft around it is stripped out and it's restructured so that the data itself is structured and saved as individual nodes so that those pieces are available to other parts of the system should you want to remix or reuse parts of the scholarship. It's in alpha at the moment at Wayne State and in heavy testing and we anticipate a beta launch sometime early to spring next year and... Do you want to go to the other side? Yeah, that's fine. So this is a shot detailing sort of some of the look of various items in stages of the editorial workflow in Vega and those items show up as dots so that you sort of know where your current list is in the process of editing. There's a frame for commenting on the right and the bottom is series or journal-like structures that can be displayed on the front end. I would be remiss if I did not say that this project started at West Virginia University and has only recently moved to Wayne State and so credit or accredited? I think I've said it before. Okay, thanks. I think I'll be saying some of the things that Joshua said. My name is Catherine Mitchell and I'm the director of publishing and special collections at the California Digital Library at the University of California. I'm here to talk about Editoria which is also a melon funded project. This project I worked closely with Eric Van Rijn from UC Press, he and I are co-PIs on this project and the sort of impetus for it was the crisis in the humanities with the monograph and its questionable sustainability. And so one of the things that we wanted to do was try to build books better so that they were more efficiently created so that they were less expensively created and so that they were better tuned so that the process of making them was better tuned to a digital first distribution model and also, but not exclusively, open access. That's like, oh, should I do it? Okay, great. Oops, that doesn't know I'm too far. Okay, these are old slides. All right, I want you to know that I have revised these slides. They are not currently in their revised state and I revised them because I realized that I was leading initially with what is Editoria instead of leading with the problem I felt that Cliff Lynch had chastened us enough at the beginning that I should fix that. So now I'm owning up to my mistake and proceeding. So what does Editoria do to make books better? Well, basically there are a couple of things that it does one of which is to provide library publishers with the capacity to make books. I think that in many cases those of us who are working in library publishing feel pretty confident about our journal production systems. We're running journals. We have multiple options for running journals and there's a long history of us hosting journals and supporting journals within our institution and beyond. One of the things that we have not been able to do at CDL and I think there are probably others in the room who face some of the same challenges is provide a similarly robust mechanism for making books. But that is not to say that we don't have a reason to do that because in fact we have found at the University of California on the 10 campuses that there are a great many academic units who are actually producing book series and they aren't doing it with publishers, they're doing it themselves and they're doing it in very awkward and unwieldy ways and they would love to have more infrastructure to support that work. And so that was what drove us as the library to be very keen to work on this project. Eric came at it from a different perspective as an academic press looking for a way to refine a process that they were already very good at but that felt as if it were mired in some systems that were outdated and no longer well suited to the ways in which they wanted to distribute books including open access book programs. So what this offers is basically a consolidation of systems for those entities that have already been publishing books and a way to produce books for those of us who are eager to move into that space and support our institutions in that way and our faculty. It also helps to migrate away from desktop software. There are a lot of examples of people making books in Word trying to create a PDF but before they do that passing the manuscript around to any number of people losing track of the version, putting extra junk in the code and then really struggling to get something that's print ready. So the idea was to move out of all of those desktop solutions into a single web enabled environment. And finally to create digital workflows that were actually that would enable in much the way that Josh was describing would enable multiple folks, the author, the editor, the peer reviewer to work in a system simultaneously as appropriate. Okay, back to what it is. So editorial is an open source browser based digital book production system and what it does is it provides workflow management tools so that people can basically either if they're feeling ambitious, author in the system or present us with more typically a Word document that we can then ingest, convert to HTML and then make available for all of the design and editorial work that happens within the system. It has browser based editing. So again, there isn't the problem of versioning. Everybody knows what they're working on and where it is and it's development. And what we're outputting is basically an EPUB, a PDF. Anything you might need can come out of the same work. So it's a single workflow with multiple outputs. And it should be easy to implement. It's really been designed from the perspective of book production editors at UC Press, which is interesting because they are a team, they know what they do and instead of just sort of replicating what they were using before, they sort of broke it down. We worked with Coco, the Coco Foundation, this amazing technology partner that doesn't just build things but actually thinks about how people do things and asks them to rethink how they're doing things and what would be the easiest path somewhere. So it's designed to be very intuitive in that way. And it's currently in beta. I think that one of the interesting things for us is that it's having been designed by academic press production editors, it's very much aligned with how they work. The library press or the library publishing scenario is a bit different. So we're finding that we have some additional requirements that they may not. So that's where we are with that. And then finally, well, we have, the interesting thing about the technology here, and I will get to it later because I feel like I'm running over, is that this is really modular and it isn't a single system. It is the sort of conglomeration of a lot of open source efforts that are out there in addition to the PubSuite technology, which is JavaScript based and customizable. So we're really trying to convene a community of open source effort here rather than building something de novo. And then finally, we have some partners and folks are signing on, they're in the system, they're testing it, they're using it, they're writing requests for features and it's already, we've had our first meeting, it's a really lively bunch, people are very excited about it. One of our partners is Fulcrum. On to Charles. So I'm Charles Watkins and I'm Associate University Librarian at Publishing and you should have thought I'd work out how to operate, oh, I get the point there again. So Associate University Librarian Publishing at University of Michigan and Director of University of Michigan Press. And my portfolio as it were is University of Michigan Press, Michigan Publishing Services, which is a library publisher and deep blue art institutional repository. And I'm gonna talk about Fulcrum briefly. So Fulcrum is also supported by the NUWM Foundation. Fulcrum has very little behind the scenes in terms of workflow tools. It's not an offering platform, it's not a production platform. It has a particular focus and that is on the durability and preservation of book-length materials. So what it consists of is it consists of a reading layer which reads EPUB files and underneath a repository layer that preserves associated assets and those assets are delivered through the reader layer. So it's a response to a pattern that we've seen with humanities authors, which is that they are true digital scholars now. They are collecting a lot of material during their research and at the point of publication, they are wanting to deliver that material with their narrative. So this is a way of supporting the production of enhanced e-books and interactive scholarly works and doing it in a way that is built on top of a repository layer that is in the San Vera Fedora framework is actually on the same stack as our research data repository, University of Michigan. So really getting back to the point that Cliff Lynch raised in his opening remarks that this issue of posterity, of durability is a major block to scholars who want to move into the digital space with their book-length projects. So Fulcrum is really addressing that particular issue. It's a host of platforms. It has behind the scenes a number of services that we're offering to other publishers and it does integrate with authoring and workflow tools. So in fact, we're working both with Vega and with Editoria to provide a content workflow. So at this stage we have over 6,500 books on Fulcrum and there are mainly in two collections. One is the ACLS Humanities e-book collection and that's a backlist collection of about 5,000 books and the other one is the University of Michigan press e-book collection which launches in January which launches with about 1,100 books and then we're also hosting some publications for other publishers like the level press and also working with some other university presses. So this is just an example of an enhanced e-book on Fulcrum. So this is relatively simple. It's an e-pub with embedded video but at the same time we are moving towards much more complex interactive scholarly works. This is an archeological report which delivers a 3D model associated data and narrative in the same environment. It's all in the e-pub-3 environment but you can truly interact with this work. And this is just lastly to say, to repeat the concept of I think this feeds into other themes in this presentation which is the idea of integration. So the way in which these projects really can fit together for one publisher's workflow. So this is our aspirational but getting there workflow for University of Michigan press and you can see that as Joshua has said, we feel that we can use some of the back ends of Vega to manage management and peer review coming into an editorial workflow where we can manage the production process. So we're delivering through Fulcrum and then offering our content through some other programs like SimplyE, for example, for a reader who is trying to get stuff from multiple platforms including Fulcrum and also Rebus which is another mental foundation supported reading platform. But also just to make the point that we're all about standards, we're all about integration, we're all about making digital humanities type projects discoverable and preservable by asking for a certain amount of constraint from the faculty who are writing and constructing those. So it's a bargain. We'll preserve, we'll make your work discoverable if you follow some of our workflows and containers. I'm not gonna introduce another platform to you. That's it, but I do wanna give you some quick background in the Library Publishing Coalition for those of you who aren't familiar with it because it's kind of an important framework around some of the things we're gonna discuss. LPC is a community-driven membership association of libraries involved in publishing. It's hosted by the Educopia Institute that provides both administrative support and also community facilitation. We released our first strategic plan this year and as you do, as part of that process, we revisited our vision, mission and values and I'm sharing this with you mostly because I think our new vision statement is lovely and I try to get as much mileage out of it as possible. Our vision is a scholarly publishing landscape that is open, inclusive and sustainable. So obviously we're aiming high, but I do think it's a good articulation of the values of a lot of library publishers and the libraries that they're a part of. And here are just some basic facts about LPC and some highlights for annual activities. We have about 82 member libraries, a number of strategic affiliates of which CNI is one. Our annual conference library publishing forum, there's some postcards around, please take one. It's coming up in May in Vancouver. We also have a really active set of committees and task forces that do amazing work and we're involved in grant funded research projects like the IMLS project that created the library publishing curriculum. Check out librarypublishing.org for lots, lots more information. So with that, we're gonna move on to our panel discussion. So, hang on, apologies in advance for the overly long and pedantic nature of these questions. There are really more discussion problems. So, first one, one of the reasons for the creation of the LPC in the first place was the need to develop a community of practice around library publishing, which until then was mostly individual libraries working in isolation. Five years in, that community has grown in ways that I think would have been hard to predict in 2013. And one of them has been a strong and growing focus on developing a set of shared values and ethics for the field. So for our three panelists, how have you seen or participated in that and what impact do you feel it's having both on library publishers and on the broader environment? I could start. So I was intimately involved in the early discussions and then the development that led to the ethical framework for library publishing that came out of the library publishing coalition, published earlier this year, is that right? And it grew out of discussions at the forum two years ago where we sort of recognized the imperative to interrogate our own ethics as a group. If we really are a community, then what are our values, I think I'm restating your premise in this question. And I think that that focus and the document that's come out of it, which is intended to be a living document revisited and revised as our understanding of our responsibilities and our ethics grow. That is beginning to have impact. We've seen it used in discussions. So for instance, in the Humeitrix project, that document was apparently highly relevant to the guiding of those discussions. And I also think it helps inform this sense that we have responsibilities in the projects that we undertake, the software that we create, the infrastructures that we develop that might be informed by more than simply publishing imperatives. That it's good to interrogate what our values are as libraries and publishers so that some of that can go into the development of the work that we're doing. So not to belabor this, but in the case of Vega, can we acknowledge that questions of new peer review processes or open peer review processes help to push against the kind of gatekeeper function that closed or traditional peer review might serve against values of inclusion or diversity. And thinking about that on the front end makes certain that on the back end, you don't find yourself in a situation where you are sort of locked into a technology that runs counter to values that you wish you could support. I mean, I didn't think one of the importance of this work by the library publishing coalition can really be overstated. It's incredibly relevant for university presses as well as library publishers. And the idea that we are mission related publishers, that we are different in something that is a very meaningful way from commercial publishers, it's really, it's a rebirth. And it's incredibly important for me, it's also incredibly important for our systems. It's been very, very influential working with the level press group as well to sort of hear these values reinforced and reinforced. And also working within the library context, this is the environment that we're working and helps us connect with other partners within our own libraries as well. From a full-prong point of view, full-prong has four design principles that are values based design principles. So one of those, for example, is accessibility. And just what happens if you view what you're doing truly through an accessibility lens goes far beyond a community of partially sighted readers. For example, it goes right to the heart of how we think about digital and the digital affordances and open access and including equity and diversity and so on. So it's just these frames of values-based frames really help us to put blue water between where we sit and where a commercial competitor sits and are extraordinarily helpful. I would just add that a lot of this work and a lot of this thinking has come out of what are effectively community meetings at the library publishing forum. And the first meeting that gave rise to the ethical framework for library publishing was a meeting in which we were grappling with an environment that suddenly wasn't so much fact-based and thinking about what we could do as a community to sort of make our ethics known, to make sure that voices that seemed more silenced than they had been before would be heard and that perspectives that were being explicitly rejected would have a space. And so that was a very, I think, a very emotional meeting for the group and there was a lot of talk. The next year we convened around the topic of Elsevier's purchase of B-Press. And again, there were real ethical quandaries there. B-Press works for me, I like it. It does what I need it to do. It's owned by a company that I believed I was offering alternative to by using B-Press. And so how do we reconcile those things as a community and having the space to sort of grapple with that and think about what it means for our ethical obligation to each other? Do we allow NDAs with vendors? How do we work to protect privacy and data when we engage with vendors? Can we as a community come up with standards for contractual relationships that will protect people? And then of course the Academy-supported community-led open infrastructure that we are all sort of working in and that we want to see more and more of. How can it position itself in a way to make sure that there are alternatives to the kinds of gatekeeping that aren't just about quality but are about certain kinds of voices and not hearing others? I think one point which is, I'm using commercial as a short-term, non-commercial versus commercial. I think it's really, really important to not suggest that certain publishers by an accident at the tax code are essentially categorized as commercial but are in fact as mission-driven as those of us who are fortunate enough to be nonprofit status are. And that's also true of many of the vendors in our community that this is not a divide and it's an encouragement to embrace an idea of mission-driven and values-based that goes far beyond that division. Before we move on, any thoughts on how the development of a shared culture and values might impact sustainability of these efforts in the long run? Yeah, well one thing that comes to mind again is this idea that these infrastructure platform presumably they are of benefit to the whole community. They don't accrue to simply one player institution. And if that's true then they are of benefit to small practitioners who just don't, like Catherine says, don't have the infrastructure to do books but suddenly could perhaps find themselves with that infrastructure. And if the community that gives rise to these projects does not have a shared understanding of values or is not approaching these projects from a frame of a particular ethic, then those small players find themselves again at the mercy of whatever the ethic is that gets baked into the project. We all understand a rising sense that the algorithm can be biased. The software can be ethically compromised if it's not developed from an ethical framework. And so it is important that as a community we understand what our values are so that those values can inform our development work so that that development does not then turn back and betray the people who use it. So moving on to our alignment theme. As we were talking about what we wanted to do with this session, all of you shared a number of examples of ways that library publishers are taking part in larger efforts or are forming partnerships with organizations in different sectors or otherwise aligning their work with others to have a bigger impact. Can you talk about where you're seeing that and maybe about where you'd like to see more of it in the future? I'll jump in here. Well, first of all, we're aligning ourselves very closely at CDL with our university press and that's something that we have had, we've tried to do in fits and starts over the years but we are now going to be on the same technology platform for book production which is something new and it enables us to imagine an increasing level of sticky interdependence and opportunity where we could be involved in some kind of a continuum of book publishing where it's easier to hand a project off or to sort of imagine it sort of evolving toward another life with another sponsor in effect and so that's exciting and it's nice to see us converging but also recognizing where we have a shared interest and where our needs diverge. I would say that for us working with the Cocoa Foundation has been a really important step away from library based technology and one of the things that we've done historically at CDL is build our own and when we have participated in open source projects they have tended to be library driven and this is a technology partner who has more of a sort of grounding in the publishing world, specifically work on PLOS infrastructure and a long history with companies like Highwire et cetera, the principles of the foundation and so for us this is really an important move toward a kind of a technology expertise in an area that is not the focus of the library and has been immensely helpful. It's been really interesting to work with different communities of libraries. The library publishing coalition is one community, the level press group is another community and has middle group 54 supporting institutions. A very interesting community that we've really had the chance to work with more and more is Lyrasys and that's been a fascinating experience. Lyrasys pivoting to become this incubating entity, this introducer connector and working with the members of the 1000 plus libraries, museums, galleries that are archives that are associated with Lyrasys has really given us a fascinating opportunity to test our ideas and our technologies in a variety of different contexts. So that's been a really fascinating community and a very promising and pivotal partner in our work on sustainability I think. So I don't want to leave into integration here too much. But this interdependence among infrastructures where we come together with other institutions that are developing a cadmium infrastructure, open infrastructure to leverage the best points of each of those systems to come together to be something a little greater. I don't know if folks have read the meta-archive statement on the deepened sunset today. But they made the point that the work that was done to set policy and governance of the community was far more benefit really than the work that was done on the network or system itself. And that that work allows for healthy and sustainable community. And so this sort of interdependence among a network of institutions who recognize the value in each other's projects and who work for each other's best interests. We would like to see fulcrum and editorial succeed and be sustainable and do fairly well because that's good for us and good for them. That there's a win-win feeling about it. And that those infrastructures, we need to be cognizant that the community development is as important as the infrastructure development so that we have a sustainable future. Sustainable as was defined in the Athenaeum 21 presentation as having a sense of continuity of access as opposed to simply being sort of persisting in a state. That was clear, that's my thought on that. Yeah, and that is a great segue into the last question prompt here, which is that I think one of the things that has been at times frustrating for the library publishing field is that there are so many new platforms in development in addition to the great platforms that we already have, like PKP's software. So understanding what's out there, choosing which one is right for you has been a challenge. So it's been exciting to see the kinds of integration work that you all are doing. And I know you've talked a little bit about it, you wanna tell us a little bit more about the ways that you're building links between systems or sort of coordinating between them. So one of the really interesting sort of communities that has been introduced by working together on software has been the Michigan Digital Publishing X group, MDPX. So on Thursday, Joshua, I, and Kathleen Fitzpatrick will all be at Michigan State University. So we go from university to university to eat each other's food and have been since, which is really quite good, and have been since last year. And the way we started doing this was thinking about interoperability between our different systems. And that's been a very interesting experience because we've had to have those meals together and we've actually had to have people in the room who really think about culture as well as software to establish a layer of trust and a layer of openness to really thinking about our shortfalls as well as our strengths. So that's just been a really interesting experience in terms of what this kind of collaboration, working together in the community might actually feel like, which is not just about technology. And I'm looking forward to the food that we provide. Yeah, well, I think I might focus on editorial itself as a thing because it is very much built with the notion that it would plug into any number of front-ends. Obviously, you saw before on the workflow that Charles shared that it can be a production system that would drive, you know, content into full Chrome. It could also sit behind any IR platform or a publishing platform. It isn't meant to be a solution unto itself. It's meant to be a cog in a machine. And so it is very much dependent on and eager for the success of the other pieces. I mentioned briefly when I was describing it that it's not built in a single code environment. I mean, there is the PubSuite code and that is an important piece of it, but it adheres very closely to this ethos of sharing around open source projects. And so, you know, a lot of what happens, the ingest engine, some of the formatting and the typesetting is happening in systems that were not built by the Coco folks and but play well with their technology. And so I think that that is an important form of integration in the very conception of a project. Is it something that you need to build from soup to nuts or is it something that can draw on some of the successes and the resources that are already out in the community? And that has been both exciting and terrifying, of course, because then you don't control everything and that's one of the perils of this kind of model, but you have so much more in terms of possibility. You have resources, you have excitement, enthusiasm and vision coming from any number of places and it doesn't all reside with a single shop. So that's been a very positive experience. I stole the MTBX. No, no, that's good. I'm glad you did. I think the MTBX stands for collaboration. Is it exciting development? And I, yeah, I've got a little piece in there. Yes, I thought it was exchange. Maybe it's exchange. Okay. I'll change the name of that. Stanford's on there. I think it's an exciting development. Partly because it opens us up to each other in, I think, in ways that maybe weren't possible before. And it allows us to think, as I said before about it, our partner's best good, you know, which is there's something there. And I'm especially interested in the future of that because there are lots of, let's think in my own frame in Michigan, there's lots of institutions in Michigan that are tiny. You know, there's, or smaller, there's Grand Valley and Northern Michigan and Central Michigan and even smaller colleges. And some of my colleagues there will, you know, sort of very frankly say to me, that's good for the R1s, but what about us small library publishers who just don't have a, we can't download your massive software and install it. And so the more we begin collaborating together on these kinds of projects, the wider the door may be for those institutions that don't have that kind of underpinning. And the more we will have changed our own approach to each other such that we might be able to welcome them into what we're doing. And I really look forward to that. I think that that's maybe one of the true positive outcomes. If this truly is a change of culture and integration and accessibility, that it would be an inclusive one for sort of all of our institutional brethren, brothers and sisters across the landscape. I think that's where a partner like the RSS could also be an interesting piece because just because it's an open source platform doesn't mean that it has to be run locally. Some of us want to do that. Others of us would like to just have somebody, you know, make it available to us and we pay them a fee and license fee and we use it. And I think that, you know, recognizing that open source is not a place, running open source, contributing code to open source is not a place where everyone can engage comfortably, has the resources to do that, but that doesn't mean that they don't support it in some form is a really important step forward for our community. And having sustainable service providers and many of them is also really, really important. I do want to say that I think the fact there is a, you know, we, our institution reeled a little bit from the B-Press acquisition for all the reasons that you are aware of, that it felt like a trail and seems like an enclosure from the commercial space of a player that we thought was in our, in our midhouse. And so there is a, there's also a sense that these developments happening at academic institutions and staying there to the extent that, that there's a foundation there may be a hedge against this enclosure, this idea of enclosure that we're playing with each other, you know, in this space. I don't know, there's a, there's a, it's kind of that axiom that you don't do the same thing over and over and expect different results. If we can, if we can begin to change the way that we collaborate together, then, then perhaps hosting becomes safe again. So they, not. I want to make sure to leave time for questions. So I think we'll wrap up our preparatory remarks here. Thank you very much, panelists.