So I'll start to introduce the speaker then So first, thank you Everybody here for being so early to this talk. You must be very motivated to listen to Francesc Apfelbeck he is Originally from the Czech Republic and as a biotechnologist by education and training he is one of the co-founders of the food hacking base and his mean mean field of specialization is a fermentation of food and drinks So please give a warm welcome to Francesc Apfelbeck and the stage is yours. Thank you Pum-pum, okay Adjust this thing Wait, I'll make the table Okay, so we can start. Thank you for coming so early I just start my morning breakfast shifts at 6 30. So I think not so bad Today we will be talking about the fermentation mobile I will try to keep the presentation within 40 minutes. So we have 20 minute discussion after If I get a bit too concentrated or something, which is quite easy for me I will see the science and I will try to progress continuously I will tell a bit about myself first after that We will talk, you know about the more general kind of, you know terms of what is this presentation about and later on we will kind of, you know go through really the important parts kind of, you know step-by-step and As I said, we will be finishing the discussion So my name is Francesc Apfelbeck in the computer world. I use Algoldor. So Francesc Algoldor Apfelbeck. I am From Czech Republic originally, but I don't live in my country of origin for more than 13 or 14 years I kind of come and visit. I have been living in many different parts of the world and for now around Eight years I focus professionally on fermentation I have been doing all the fermentation before because I study in Czech Republic, Holland and Ireland And I actually was my primary field was biotechnology, so biology The molecular biology or genetic engineering of plants, which I moved later on to the biotechnology And actually my last project in Ireland was already about fermentation, but I was not very happy with the direction of science and also the personal fit of myself into the field was not exact so after discovering the power of the Linux community In our 2007 when I really dive in and kind of start to participate and judge my system I left and travel around the world doing fermentation for now many years trying to go through the open source alternative sustainable kind of, you know Fields Getting really involved in that type of environment because it suits me much a better this community open source kind of model Than the corporate or government framework, which I have been involved before So this is kind of bit of my background You probably know noise bridge one of the heckerspaces actually my first heckerspace where I was involved later on I've been in several other ones like 091 labs in Ireland in Galway I have been participating in a bermap. We have been making tours So you've been so the sea base we have been reading in many different places, which I really appreciate So this would be kind of that part of the my activities with the hackers so fermentation going around the world and learning In the last let's say several years I am more and more focused really on Fermentation in a view that I'm trying to also make my living from it Because if you cannot make your living from something You have to do your living from something else and this presentation is about how to be able To get resources which you need for your life in my case True fermentation as efficiently as possible as I mentioned few minutes ago. I do fermentation professionally meaning I'm really trying to get my living from that for more than eight years and I'm still not as stable as I would like to partly because I was traveling a lot So I've been in different places like California. I was in Asia Western Europe, etc So we did changes more difficult, but they also on the things and I would say fun fundamental the things which are actually Making it more complicated for the people who would like to do something with the food and drinks to become a really Professionalized in a way that they can cover the cost of living. So this presentation will be about how to improve this and make this Chance to do in your life what you want more efficient. So now fermentation mobile I kind of Try to combine three different fields Which I believe are Really kind of you know circling around or kind of you know integrating the first one is fermentation The fermentation is at the core of the activities because that's what I focus on It doesn't matter if it's making beer or cider or if you make him cheese Cheese, you know, it's you know, like, you know fermentation by itself Fermentation is now becoming very popular in the Western countries. It was I wouldn't say exactly wiped out but considerably decrease in its range and daily application During the let's say 1890s and around the time and later with the insta the industrialization Stabilization pasteurization now introduction of these techniques. We still have some kind of, you know, pure culture ferments Like, you know, beers, you know and vines But the traditional wild fermentation was more or less, you know pushed out from the daily life now. It's coming back. I Am very happy for that There are different concepts which you should be aware of you already are probably no slow food. So very high quality food, you know from the point of your processing you I'm sure no Be all organic food. So really low or like say as organic as possible not using Substances which can hurt you Other things which is very important, of course, and it comes with the distribution is a fair trade. So Sharing in a way that you really kind of care about how do you actually what you take and what you give? That would be one content. Let's say three main concepts for the fermented foods, I would say really important is Trying to serve for example life foods. So drinks and foods which are still alive you consume them and They still contribute by probiotic and probiotic qualities to your body So they do be like, you know, the main thing which are now being progressive in the fermentation The second field which many of you are familiar because we are in a big hacker event Is that a food drink and be hacking the definition of Hacking of the food bill and drinks It's been difficult because everybody has a different point of view From my point of view is that you apply Of course that kind of you know really Observing and curiosity kind of you know Approach to something what you are interested in in this case for example food and You try to do something with it, which is new but you try to understand how does it work? So you are really trying to kind of you know come up with something new using something What was there already before and of course applying things like the open source, you know sharing, you know And this up to things which hackers are very I would say famous for and Which I am very happy to because for me for example the way how the Hackers in a way and all this I know open source movement changed the world of Software and hardware in the last few decades. It's amazing if you imagine like, you know That there will be just a Microsoft in a way now Compared, you know having a whole this community of open sorely nooks like it's amazing The sad thing is that in the fields of especially biotech the situation is very different And this is one of the reasons why I definitely would like to ask and like galvanized, you know Bring the help and integration of the hacker movement in these fields because it's very important people who are more interested in genetic engineering Etc know how the things are going with Monsanto and others and there has to be some changes. So like It's important to hacking apply also on these fields. Now the last field or like third field Let's say which I mentioned now. It's art the art It's of course hard to grab because like what is artistic what is not I? See it for me as a Wonderful way how to bridge cultures how to bring people together in a way of like understanding the things from different perspectives Art many times of course. Let's say of course the art many times symbolizes something so you really Come up with a new ideas you can for example think about the peace symbols, you know creation of the peace symbol like something what is kind of Seeing the things from different point of view the other thing which is very important for me with the art is that it gives you a personal space for expression So you can do things some certain way which you like and it's okay You find yourself, you know through the art. So if you combine these three things I will go to the next one In kind of you know imagine kind of you know structure You will have a system Where the fermentation by itself? You try to understand them better You do first of all the fermentation. That's a fermentation field You try to understand them better from the point of view how they work both a dynamical and statistic kind of you know, you know Point of view you try to combine it with the art Wrapping it all together in a form where you can come out with a new technologies especially for example apply technologies based on the models of Really properly kind of observed environment. So you know how this ferment works you apply to for example pilot or small to medium production and You manage to wrap it all together in a way Which you can quite easily share with the people around the world of course all of that property documented. That's very important Now this presentation now I have a phrase dear because like there are several things, you know, which I are quite important and we will go through that in the next Sides so we'll focus on the art of fermentation died by hackers using a dynamic mobile concepts to create also static With practical demonstration at this even and especially after so what does it actually mean? One more kind of you know such The fermentation mobile aims to build up Stable fermentation communities which can support Themselves and the people who are doing the activities in them and it's done in a way that it tries to minimize at the time Of setting up this kind of first proceed, you know First phase of you know doing something because starting something is generally very challenging Because you don't have too many resources so this Talk is about how to make it more efficiently so you can get to the stage where you are actually really sustainable faster It's combining the integration into the current League of framework with also mobile approach because You Need at the beginning also some resources from outside because you don't have them Let's say in the community where you are starting. It's not fermentize enough yet again. It really mentioned the presentation So it's combining the mobile approach about getting resources from other places to to be able to like over just first period and It facilitates of course by that Collaboration by the communities because if you come to different places and you promote what you do Well, you are getting some resources for yourself and for your community But you're also giving something back to the community which is hosting which is very important So just the now, let's say go through this step by step So legalization of class it proficient the ones who don't know class here is one of the words which I use you can use Fermentizer brewer they are different words person who is doing fermentation class is ancient word for ferment in I think Norwegian like Nordic languages in Slavic languages for shoot to and it's supposed to come from the kind of the pantheon of the north it was a being which is what was actually traveling the world and Sharing the knowledge and experience later on we was the being was killed and from the blood of the of the quasiere was It was created into the meat So which is you know the about the ambrosia of the of the artist and etc So it's I think a really nice, you know Mythology the word is being still used very often class is one of the most famous Russian beverages Fermented class in check means basically anything. What is fermenting? So I think class here class here in check It's a nice word, which I like to use So you get the professionalization System but they rich faster We said that Lead a production educational activities. This is going to be something what we talk quite a bit about Income that's a key and insurance. These are the main stop. Let's say main topics now for my fermentation mobile The fermentation mobile just do in a few sentences. So I understand the practical concept Before we go through the theory in a way. It's a as cheap as possible a way how to establish legal education and production center for fermentation You can imagine easily food track or food trailer fermentation trailer where you have Legally established Facility maybe small doesn't matter so much at the beginning, but you can do activities legally So this is what we are going to be talking about how to do this So you can actually do what you love and being able to get your resources more easily from that now This is something what I do for many years and I always had the issue of getting what I do Out and being able to ask Legally people to support me. It doesn't matter if it's education. It doesn't matter, you know, if it's production It's always an issue because of many hygienic and safety laws So this is actually something what is very important because without that You are always in that kind of shadow economy you cannot go for the bigger events you cannot For example make Drinks and food and beverages and get it out, you know for some donations. You are very limited The idea is that this when you want to start fermentation you just start in some community So starting up is a challenge if you come somewhere you don't have too many resources You need to cover your cost of living and you need To be active somewhere you need some place for the fermentation as you see the fragile economy Sorry for the fragile community means the community is not fermentized yet People don't know you they ferment a bit or don't You need some time to kind of you know really get them in I call it fermentize because this is actually what you really do Like, you know, I getting the people in and making the thing happen however And the thing is that To be able to do it efficiently you of course need to cover kind of you know Your living cost otherwise you cannot do it easily. You have to do more part times You kind of you know will be in trouble. It's kind of classical catch 42. So At the beginning for example buying the Buying some place or renting the place where you could do your activities long term. It's very difficult Because you do not have resources for that therefore Some big investments, you know, like you're borrowing money from the bank, you know trying to invest in all really and getting support It's not likely because you don't have generally too much history and you do not also support of the community Which doesn't exist yet. So the beginnings in a very simple words are difficult Now you of course can do things which will help you to succeed The community build-up pays long term if you start to do regular events, which are somewhere around here the regular events build-up community On Tuesday, we do fermentation evenings in Normandy Sherbo where I am based now in In a Lashers artistic community every Tuesday. We do fermentation evening Every last Saturday of the month we do fermentation day, which is open to the community So the first weekly event like you do probably a lot in your Hacker spaces Brings people in who are really into it the core group which has been which is doing fermentation And you keep in touch. You do new things come to the foot again base We have several ferments which we have done during the last months preparing for this event And taste them of course the monthly even bring people in from more I would say wider society From my point of view great way for promotion and getting resources for what you do because if you need to buy your few hundred Euros of worth of ingredients for the beer making sugars, you know for the brewing, you know probiotic drinks You don't want to be about paid all the time by yourself. You need to get the money from someone one Generally who like that and what support you this monthly events are very good for that So you of course invest lots of time and energy in that trying to kind of get these resources getting a more stable And the thing is again like all of these things for example now what we do in a way are illegal Because we don't have a place and we don't cannot do it really like you know really by the book now When you are doing all these events and you try to publish it and like share it They do the recipes, you know some photo galleries, etc. You are building your fermentation history This is very important because later on we will go through that if you want later on so get resources to establish yourself real long-term you Can use this really this build up of kind of documentation and community Very well to get more resources for activities It doesn't matter if it's you know crowdsourcing or if it's some kind of government funds There's of course difference, but it will help you very much, but we will get into that now the last one the kind of summarization of this if You manage to if you have a chance to establish at the beginning for a minimal amount of money Means that you can afford it a place which will allow you to do actually all of these activities legal Well, that's very good for you because you have many advantages Compared to do it all of this kind of you know Somehow and this somehow I know because I do it somehow for many many years so like It's a nice way to go. It's making the life much more easy in a way now promotion activities under activities other activities, sorry communities, so The fermentation mobile if you have a food trailer or fermentation trailer, which allows you to do things legally You can use it to go out to get resources You can go for the big events for example, you know in a way in the future We could be uneven like this team of few people Getting out for example a homemade or like a little small scale made beers, you know And non-alcoholic drinks, you know foods, you know, whatever we could be here and making the same thing same conditions for example as the food tracks and Getting the resources in it's possible because you are legal. You are not legal It's very difficult.   Of course spread the knowledge very intensively during it's kind of taking lots of energy But it also kind of you know really galvanized fermentation of the communities So it's something what I really like for like two months tours, you know, three months tours very nice thing to do Of course if you have a legal kind of you know base, you know, like it's beautiful and now This is again the data if you document all these activities You will be able to later on use it not only like that you have a more like beautiful photos for your presentations, you know but If you do things on the regular basis for a long term People remember people remember it take years, but you get your social networks, you know much stronger And if you come back to the people kind of, you know, you stay in touch It really allows you to do things which are very hard to achieve Just by one big kind of, you know bank, you know and few months of effort. Thank you So I definitely recommend a good documentation for the hackers. It's very important It doesn't always happen But we are trying so this is something what is important because really it will help you now Yep, this one is something what is connected directly with the fermentation, but it's now applied in many other fields too if you produce Something what is fermented agent in generally you are prolonging Let's say the digestibility of the project product fermentation is used to conserve to preserve nutrition The thing is even then it doesn't last forever and if you of course have the legal status You can sell it which is great. You can get resources But also if you see that you have something too much, you can decide, okay Let's give it away, you know, give it to the nonprofits, you know, like, you know food no bombs, you know to the local charities If you are legally you can do it if you are not Most likely you'll be not able to so if you can do it legally then actually you are much more likely to get closer to the I would say Unachievable goal of zero waste, but you can do much better than we do now and for me this kind of you know System of sharing and caring Compared to do compared to what is happening now around the world, you know through the corporate structures, etc It's very important. So like it's something again What helps you if you are able to do things properly legal now? The last one I am not a big fan of actually I'm not fan at all insurance If you want to do fermentation, I think generally food and drinks You need to be legal and injured if you are not legally can not be injured which means you can be quite easily accused through you know based on true facts or not and It can completely I think destroy what you are doing because It can go really quickly quite wrong so far. We have been very lucky in my activities We had some incidents in the past which happens journey some explosions when people do not pay enough attention or It just you know, like do do miss hand of things. Unfortunately, it happens Of course, you want to avoid any incidents on the other hand It happens so insurance. It's not something what I enjoy I think it's very much misused by the people who have already loads of money But if you want to do a project of this type you need it Now how does it happen? Okay, so there are different steps One more boring than other to be honest, but they have to be done If I'm talking about legality, you have to get it somehow Imagine that food of fermentation trailer. How do you do it? First of all, you should think what are your options? We will mention the two major ones It is education on profit, which I would recommend many Hacker space. You have already destruction So you are very familiar with that one the second one. It's some type of a small business in France For example where I'm now base. It's called micro enterprise It's an option like, you know how you can get easily in and do your business kind of you know on a really Like small level we will talk about it in a minute First of all, however, you check what is in your country the way So what are the legal entities, you know what you can apply and of course like it depends What is the direction which they want to take because there are different possibilities Well, you know the really things that you want to do more educational more practical and production, you know, it's up to you the laws well There are laws which you have to At least consider that they are existing at the beginning of the application procedures It's a very good idea to find out first what these laws are If you have someone who can help you with that very good because it's sometimes really messy So really make sure that you know quite pretty well. What is the legal framework in which you are operating? It is mandatory if you want to get certified and get the stuff, you know like that I am here, you know in some certain shape, which is recognized by the local and like state authority You have to go through that. I do not underestimate it. It's a Kind of waste of time, but it has to be done and now enforcement That's the second stage. So, you know the laws now, of course, you want to know how much they are enforced Like do I have to really pay too much attention to the to that or not? What are the legal loops even more important kind of How to get your stuff done even like, you know, when the law is not exactly in your way I know many examples which kind of Show how much the reality and kind of the paper is different or how they differs I know for example when I was in Japan in Kyushu. I volunteer in a very nice place Omura and my patron with his wife Japanese wife and the guy was Canadian They have a very nice bakery also educational Institute for the kids for English and Organic garden and their procedure of Certifying their bakery organic bakery was more or less that they kind of wrote it down like kind of what they plan to do What is inside make some basic plans send it out After they got it back, you know with a stamp and they were certified They have never ever seen someone coming, you know with like checking, you know all the kind of detail things, you know Similar thing, you know when I am now for example in Normandy another friend was getting certified for His production facilities small one and it was more like a happening, you know On the phone, you know, like, okay, do you have a proper my tradition? So, you know the system can you open the window? Yes, no problem done You're like, you know, like you don't see anyone so some things may look really hard But in reality actually people go quite straight around them and it's okay Some other things may be quite complicated like for example, if you have a fermentation room and For the beer logger, etc. And you need to make sure that your removal of carbon dioxide is done properly There are places where they really insist on that it you have it done Well, if not, you will not get your license for doing what you want So you have to be really like, you know, well informed now people already in this is and many times the key For me, for example, because I would like to have something like the fermentation truck let's say I go to the people who are doing ordered food trucks in the place and I talk to them and Especially if you are in the future competition from their point of view They can give you absolutely amazing info very quickly you go for a few pints of food in earth You know, and you basically really get, you know, okay, get this trailer not that one You know apply this, you know, you know times like, okay, we'll take you two months 5000 euros you get an enormous amount of practical information Which you should combine with the more I would say official incubator information Incubators and support centers most of the places this time in Western Europe. They have something like incubators for Supporting or promoting the local business kind of Activities some of them are non-profit some of them are governmental base. They can be very handy Because they are able to do for you by questioning actually government like, you know, taking you as a project They can communicate with the government structures, you know the hygiene, you know safety, etc In your stat and especially if you are in the country where you are not originating originating from it's very important However, please keep in mind two things They are generally How to say blue colors So they don't have too much practical experience and they go by the book. That's one thing So always combine it with the info from the people who actually doing the stuff if you can and your experience of course and the second thing is They are at least in France not exactly quick. So like my last Demand on something was like in June or July and the next meeting will be September So it depends it may be faster, but they like do not expect exactly like a business style of efficiency Things to keep in mind the lost change So what was done before when you started may go in different direction. It may be harder Generally, they lost do not change for better because so they like, you know, how flexible you can be in your Sloppiness when you prepare something So keep an eye on this generally if you are in you are already certified you should be quite alright Tell us somebody who has a similar setup like you blows it up You know and they come and check you too. So But once you are in it should be alright, but keep and keep in mind that, you know, things are changing Now the certification you generally want to if you want to get Legal you need to get legal for something you want to produce something if you want to be kind of producer Because otherwise kind of you know the government body doesn't know what to do with you So you have to come with something I Recommend to choose of course some product which is simple and which allows you To get the certification as simple as possible It doesn't have to it doesn't doesn't mean that this product is the only thing that you do but it's kind of the opening It's kind of shield Simple product generally is the one which is being done in that country already So it's certified and they know it so you can Reasonably well kind of you know, link them or they can find the connection to the Kambu job Which is already being prepared for five years in this location and has all the stamps if you come with something new It's really sometimes very difficult to kind of do is with government So like you will have to go through it But try to avoid it as much as you can at the beginning of your legal kind of you know Legal existence because it may fail like you can make really get you know months and months of delays So try to get something simple, of course having selection of fermented products, which you know quite well how to do So you can choose that the the proper one. It's very handy Because you can kind of you know adapt and that you do another five or ten ferments later on that should be no problem That's a different story later. Now. No knows No knows are things you should definitely do not put on your application form like you know meet if you can avoid like at the beginning just you know like No meat products if you can and the number two like I would say number one alcohol At the beginning I would definitely for one or two seasons that try to Recommend not to touch alcohol even the low percentage one like a cider or wine or beer It is possible to do it But it's always much more complicated on all the difference, you know all the different kind of you know levels So that one I would recommend to get in bit later on So no knows are basically the things which you want to avoid if you want to live in a reasonable kind of you know Mindstate, you know during these procedures Education on profit micro enterprise and combine. So I was sort of saying that there are different types of legal entities the most easy is a Non-profit you can set up very quickly generally without one month a minimal investment if some at all You need some people in generally there has to be at least two or three people kind of so there is some structure So it's a very nice Very easy accounting, you know, so lots of positives one of the negatives in a way is that You will have a problem to claim income or make income You can make a profit in many of these structures, but you have to invest them back to the you know activity Depending of course, there are many different possibilities Which way exactly you go, but you will have a problem to really get wages So this is one of the issues of course It's kind of up to you how much you claim like if you go for a market and you made there 300 euros well You know like you know not all of the things are on the ticket You know so it's up to you how much you say you earn and you kind of freely put to the text on the other hand if We are talking about the really nice documentation of the project like if you start to miss like 50% of the Inca video is starting to completely play with the numbers and it's get messy. So Be careful about this aspect of really getting money which you need to be able to do it. So it supports your cost of living micro-interprets That's actually like a very nice setup, which I don't try yet, but some of my friends are going that way Within in France it costs around 200 euros and four to five days of training before it was for free and no training Now we have a training You are able after that to do business. I am not sure exactly what is the income like 40,000 euros or maybe 200,000 euros It's quite pretty decent. You can do it and have your living from that The thing is that also quite easy accounting. So that's an advantage. So it's quite pretty simple still I personally recommend to combine because if you make two different structures, then you can actually really Pull the resources from different sources and it's much more easy. I think it's a very nice kind of way to go Also with the non-profit for example in France, you should remember That if you are in a direct competition with some business France has the type of laws which actually can cut you off, you know, because you are actually kind of you know Destroying their business, which is so important. So of course having the Option of for business, you know entity helps to avoid this problem now We will now talk about a little bit the thing as you see I have the experience of doing the fermentation and I have experience with setting up the fermentation centers But not the certified ones. So at the moment, I am now preparing career in my mind, you know the mobile kind of you know fermentation center And we will talk about some things which I believe they should be there. It's not very detailed. I will explain in a bit why But it's kind of the beginning and I have the idea quite pretty good how it should look like now multifunctional design If you want to be able to do different ferments You should at least demonstrate that you can do it in this setup Please realize like most of the people who are doing food trucks and things like that They do not do produce their things in the food truck They have it in their home kitchen, whatever like setup, which is not certified and they use actually the fermentation or like, you know The food truck as a kind of yes, I do it here. They are two stainless sink So I fulfill the legal requirements. So it's kind of, you know cover But it works and generally the institutions let them be However, still you should be at least able to demonstrate that you can do that thing like you know that you can make that Kambuja or kimchi in this kind of thing because if you don't then like, you know It's starting to be really a bit questionable. So you should be able to mimic at least a bit materials So you have some design which kind of allows you to different things You have to of course, you know make it happen. You have to construct it in this case It's mobile center. So you want something what is if possible light, of course It has to be hygienically kind of, you know reasonable not too expensive reasonable to work with Unfortunately, it's very hard to find this materials, which would be all great little kind of, you know, cheap Abundant, you know, easy to work and perfect hygienically safe More or less it ends up. I think with the steel construction and stainless on the top It's I think the best setup which you can get and quite reasonable So that we the materials of course the weight is important I will jump on that a bit but the first prototype which I want to build should be within 750 kilos because it's a legal requirement in EU for the trailer and If you want to have like, you know easy life with this you want to try to keep it within the weight If you go up Many things start to be complicated and you try at least for the beginning again to make it happen You wanted to have it simple like second generation that can be different, but first one simple Now you have to think about the activities which you want to do in The standard activities mean, okay If I want to make kimchi if you know what is kimchi is a fermented vegetable like to ferment it from which is done in Korea You need to cut your onions you can love that you need to clean you need to peel you need to cut you need to bottle Etc. So you need some desk for example where you do it, which is stainless you need some refrigeration Place for your ferment so they keep at optimal conditions which when you go for the events you have your experiment experiment incubator Which we are developing with the technique which is actually keeping the ferments at optimal conditions Oscillated at temperature or not you need some devices in you have some standard activities Which you know you'll be doing on regular basis, especially if you do workshops or some events And you will have some special activities like you have special workshops or like you know There's something very specific you come and you want to make a global drinks. So, okay That's a bit different setup, you know If you want to make a workshop for example, of course, I would like to be teaching It's one of my really passions. So you come to the place and it'll be very nice If you can just get sight of the trailer out cover the place or 10 to 10 15 people can actually do something Even when it's raining around and your workshops happen with a really small kind of you know Fully set up place with water etc. Electricity supporting you the fermentation mobile So you have to go through this Now the design and how to make it happen It's very simple in a way the resources are very limited at the moment I have moved back from Korea or Asia where I lived nearly for five years. So I'm establishing myself back in Europe I have to be very careful about my resources because I'm still not as stable as I would like to Perfect. Thank you. So I Suggest for this having a very basic design It can be translated in a way that we have to do it in a way, which is simple So it can be done reasonably well. So not in our multifunctional design is amazing But it has to be still quite pretty simple to do It has to be cheap, you know, like, you know, it has to be reasonably Cost so it doesn't go too far. We will be going through the cost in the budget very soon Build a prototype. We are not here to spend So like I'm not aiming on spending like next half year or year or building the fermentation trailer and playing with every screw in it I am after getting the fermentation trailer together and get it certified and like these two things are actually very important together You know, like so concentrate it too much on one and missing the other. That's not a good idea That's not what is this about it can be in the future, but at the moment It's really finding an easy way how to make this happen In other words, there'll be a plenty of space for improvements. I think that's a phrase which is being used Trailer option or dimension before I have been considering many different setups Of course food truck would be lovely But if you would like to have a food truck, you mean something what can move you around because it has already an engine It's more expensive Food truck a decent one. I would say would be minimum six seven thousand euros after it's also some you know kind of you know adjustments And you have to pay insurance all the time also if you would like to borrow the thing to someone which would be great You know to another team, which is going to do the tour or something It would be issue because of the insurance, etc. Trailer has advantages that Up to 750 kilos it company doesn't exist from the legal point of view. You don't have to pay the insurance in the meanwhile It's much cheaper You can get a trailer base for 500 euros or so and build up if you like or you can get a trailer Which is actually very suitable for your purposes within like 4,000 euros. It's possible So like you know, it's a different dimension of you know investment That's the reason of what I would like to go for there's one limitation which is bit nasty 750 kilos is not too much if you are supposed to Come for even like this and you would like to have with you at least I would say like, you know For example a thousand liters of fermented drinks an example Then like you know, that's 1000 kilos and your fermentation trailer by itself without any kind of thing in will probably be around 500 kilos. So at the moment, I'm trying to aim on The weight limit that we will be for example around 500 kilos if possible with a trailer having at least like 200 kilos 300 kilos of the carrier capacity, but it's very clear that for big events. This is not sufficient So just keep it in mind. This is one thing with a small this kind of light and simple solution. This is a complication We didn't click father now timetable the last two or three slides the type play table is a ghost like this Crowd sourcing campaign like will be in September now I'm presenting and I'm going to be busy in the next few weeks visiting my country of region come back to Normandy During September. I want to start to promote and crowdsource The build up should be done latest around mid of October Meaning starting and really this if for me if the crowdsourcing goes well I would like to have the base for the trailer or the trailer as quickly as possible And start to work on it. It will take at least month and a half. I would say I would say by the mid of November. It should be in a very final stages It's possible, but it's going to be busy now the certification because of the Christmas and because of the fact that I'm in France Like, you know trying to certify anything, you know within a month and a half or so It's already deadly, but I think there is a chance. I will be honest in the worst case It may take a little bit longer, but I really would like to do Latest by the second half of November start the certification procedures of the thing the legal entity can be started already before and it will have to be The presentation if all goes well, but I'm not I cannot predict yet Constantly being allowed to I would like to present the project on the 34 C3 in Leipzig However, in this case it means I would like to have fermentation mobile there and really use it and show it It will be demonstration practical demonstration of the thing now budget. I Would say that we did four to five thousand euros. It is possible doable depending on the amount of How to say Time which I can spend on it plus how many people are going to help and how much people are really organized and they have the knowledge With six thousand euros. It's quite much more easy because then I know that for example for four thousand I can buy actually or the preferred trailer and for one let's say one thousand euros I can just very quickly adjust it and for me at the beginning I am fine not spending like you know half year of everyday labor on building the trailer. It's fine now Two to two to four thousand euros then in a materials. That's the estimate and one thousand euros I ask for Human time resources most of it for me that in the time like for that three four months September October November December let's say I can cover like things like my social injuries health care basic things which I have to pay and I may have to also ask someone to help So I may have to invest two three hundred euros to guy who is going to do some really stainless steel job Which I don't know things like that. I think within one thousand euros possible So around five thousand euros budget for the crowdsourcing campaign as a minimum for five thousand that's doable now There are two pictures of me already doing what I would like to use for example fermentation Center for This is me in a Korean military uniform, which I got from the garbage in Korea doing My first or a second cider or first seasonal cider in Normandy Crusher behind me. I'm very happy It worked quite pretty well By the way, for example for this project, which I want to do again Local crop processing project when I use different crops from around place for example my local village in code national way in Czech Republic I Would be able with this setup to produce for example full nice organic Fresh apple juice pasteurize it if I like I can make dried apples and I can make packages You know if somebody would like to kind of you know later on contribute and buy it or get it for donation I can do that legally would be very handy, but for example for this season like 2017 No, no cider. I know that but maybe for those they know season 2018 if I get certified It could be possible or did you get for the cider which is now being developing in my country? And I know that if I get into that for example, it will be or it can be part of my Living earn through fermentation. So it's really like, you know step by step. I Would like to thank you for listening to me and coming cuz so early There is the link to the fermentation mobile On our wiki at food making base. I really hope it's fermentations Mobile not fermentation mobile because when I was putting the others in I was of course disconnected I have some issues within at work here if you are interested and You would like to get in touch. Please do so the email is definitely correct. So write to me If you know someone who can be interested in this too, please Share it. We are now at the end of my presentation time because I would like to dedicate 10 15 minutes to the discussion So one small thanks and I opened the ground to a discussion now. Thank you Thank you, Francesc so anyone with any question can go for the microphones here or in the middle of the tent and Francesc as you said at the beginning of your talk the power of a community isn't it amazing that we have this event and it's all organized by volunteers Yeah, give them a big applause for all the volunteers and the angels First question. Yeah, so you mentioned that you wanted to try and model it off of something that already existed to make it Easier to certify as Mike working. Yes, I'll get closer. Sorry Yeah, you mentioned as part of kind of making this simple and quick to stand up modeling enough after something that already exists Yeah, have you seen someone else do some similar method here like a fermentation trailer type of fermentation? Okay I will be honest on this one. I need to do more research on who is doing what I know there are people like the new wave Which was started by Sander cuts. You probably know who wild fermentation out of fermentation is the author of the book And he is the person who is kind of re-fermentizing or fermentizing America There are people who got inspired by him and other others and they are already touring for example United States With similar setup, so I want to get in touch But honestly like with the minimum resources which I have now and establishing myself in Normandy I had to put this on a site So I am not in a direct touch yet with people who actually making this happen already in the States in Europe I am not aware of Yet about kind of project like this because also the fermentation kind of on Firmation the food trucks food trailers. They are kind of like all about also a new thing It's now getting popular and more and more things happening But I am personally not in touch with them I do have experience for example when I was trying to get kombucha certified in Korea Which was not happening because it was like kombucha was not existing in Korea as a legal thing We try start to touch on it, you know, where actually to go where to ask, okay, can I sell this? Can I produce it? It was very complicated and nobody would be like, you know, like wanting to really get in there because it's Complicated it's not being done. So both for the fermentation trailer And what you want to do in it what you want to do in it will be more easy Because they're like the beer ciders, you know, kimchi kefir. It's being made in EU So like, you know, at least in the like United States EU this would be I think quite pretty simple because you can use or the Samples things which are being done legally the problem would be or like, you know, the Technical thing may be the fermentation trailer, but in this case, I may really try to hide for example behind sauerkraut Okay, this is the fermentation cabbage, you know, like, you know done, you know in this place, you know This is the fridge, you know, this is my cutting board, you know We will see, you know, like till I start to really progress on this and that means I need to prepare I cannot say directly did I answer the question? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, thank you Next piece. I hope that you know, we will discuss, you know, we don't have so much time and of course if You know after that you can come to food making base We are set, you know in a Lishko field There's a sign, you know, you will find it quite easily I think and we can discuss later on especially in the evening You know more, yes At home I started with fermentation Lemonades making lemonade and yeah for a year now and quite easily I Can produce lemonade for the factory and restaurants in my city But what are the problems I have no certification. I do it in my kitchen Get closer to the mic. Yes Okay, I do it in my kitchen and It's just homemade. Yeah, I have no problems with selling them to the restaurants, but What are the Rizikos? Can you do you know something like that? Yeah, I have been through this many times like for example again in Korea I could get like it's always this is thinking like, you know, you can be in that kind of gray zone Like we could for example produce. Okay. We had a small restaurant. So I could produce Drinks like, you know in my fermentation facility, which I build up for this purpose, which was nice for me like useful. I Could sell them in my Establishment I could go for example for a small markets Like, you know, like places where you can really sell for some period of time later on they prohibited by the way on the island So people who are going doing this and they don't have a legal certification big problem I couldn't sell them in supermarkets. I couldn't sell them really in the bars and restaurants Because they kind of reasonable ask, okay So can you show me just you know the legal stem that this is a hygienically safe, you know And this is certified because if something happened to the customer and they would say yeah, this drink is from you know Like, you know, we don't know actually it will be them who would be responsible and the thing is like there are a few things One is that somebody gets sick Like you know, it can happen, you know, like, you know, it shouldn't but you know, it could in theory Or they can get of course sick after something else, but they can claim it was you so that's one second as I mentioned with your lemonade if they are fermented it can explode and this happens several times to me It's not so much that you know, I would for example make the fermented beverage wrongly But people do not treat it properly And if you have a fermented drink which is live and you let it, you know at 40 degrees somewhere like, you know It will continue fermenting if it's glass bottle you can find later on the sharpness, you know in your Sealing or buddy and you don't want that. So if they are friendly towards you, it's very good The question is how far you would be able to go and if there is like, you know It may get complicated if you can do, you know, like an exchange like it's great There are many places which are actually completely going around like in Korea, for example We could get our drinks out on the internet, you know If it was not too big production legally, we could sell it through the internet I'm quite sure you could make some deliveries like to the you know, like the relay like the box like you had the farmers do You know with veggies you could some of things like that, you know with the drinks But if you get certification like it's more easy because also you would be able to get the Injurance I really don't like the insurance, but if things go wrong It can be a huge difference because if something happened to someone and it's kind of like, you know losing eye or Something, you know, it can be something what to my experience can be really really heavy Financial kind of you know constrained for many many years because you know you have to reimburse. I hope it doesn't happen But it's one of these stresses which I definitely would like to avoid Of course like first you want to technologically avoid it so it doesn't happen but if it does Unfortunately because of whatever reason it's good to have a chance to be at least partly protected But thank you for the info you know concerning this, you know being able to produce and get it out without like with Friendly approach from the locals. That's important One of the problems is also that you you have produced you produce it and then the time when it becomes consumed Yeah, must be not too long Sorry once more the time to supproducing and consuming must be not not too long time That's specific for probiotic drinks for example, like, you know, if you want to have them effective and really kind of working Well that they are still like contributing probiotically to your guts. It's few weeks month, too But after it's very delicious drinks. They are still nice But not so active and you need to keep them refrigerated, which is quite a high cost Thank you. You're welcome. Next, please. Do you have some more questions? Yeah, you have maybe two three more minutes Okay, two three minutes. So that's one hurry up a short question. You're running out of time and If you want to contribute to this event as an angel, please go to the info tent and register yourself We need a lot of helping angels, especially for the teardown Okay Yeah, so have you heard anything about a contract brewing kind of fermenting? So I know like with beer. There's the contract brewing side But is there anything from a from a fermentation side? So using someone else's certified? Yeah, do what you want to do. I Have heard about that. Well depends. What do you want to do like for me?  Some of them are actually saying directly, okay We brew somewhere else some of them kind of been hiding or we are brewery, but actually somebody else brew for them there were lots of problems especially in Korea because The quality of production was basically going completely from like, you know, like good bad, you know And you couldn't do too much about that. It was actually suggested to us several times Let's get some, you know, kind of someone to make the drinks for you But especially in the environment in Korea in that time I don't want to do it because I knew that I'm doing something very very special and new in the field And I wanted to have a chance not to become rich But become established and being able to use the resources, you know From this kind of being on the edge to continue doing stuff, which I like and I was I think very rightly worried that you know They would basically steal it from you very quickly Technology like that. It's a different thing if you are in a place where already these things are established Like I think Europe would be much safer and it's one of the options how you could actually start really getting Your products through the another facility, which is certified. There's an interesting place for example in San Francisco It was in 2010. I was there last time There was interesting place called underground market. You could come there and without being certified You could actually sell your product The trick was that you have to pay, I think two euros or two dollars, you know By the entrance saying if anything happens to me, it's fine. It was prohibited within like three four months because it was illegal But they managed actually to want to get more than a hundred thousand dollars in a crowdsourcing campaign and they establish a big kind of you know Community kitchen where you could actually rent a place in a legally certified kitchen and do your production on a very Limited kind of cost the renting was kind of as cheap as possible and you could actually legally produce your things So there was another kind of there are many ways, you know, how to sneak around but One of the most easy ones and this is the reason why I present the fermentation mobile is having your own sport because if you can get For five six thousand euros a place where you can do the stuff Compared to the like that working even if you lease the place Which is difficult if you don't have the connections to really be safe that you can for five six seven years doing something Do something somewhere and they don't kick you out and you have five six seven years to do it You still talk about 10 15 10 15 thousand euros for reconstructions generally and the certifications if you want to buy 40 50 60 thousand euros minimum these things you can get you can get to the position when you do it But fermentation mobile is more designed like the first two three years Which are hardest to make them as short as possible that you get as quickly as possible to the position That you are getting as much resources which if you as you need from Doing these things with using this setup and after of course after two three years Because you are building your history both legally and in the community you can run crowdsourcing campaign You can apply for the grants because you can just always say I am just enlarging I need a more permanent location and that's kind of the way which I suggest But this kind of brewing, you know, for example getting your alkohol, but which during that time somewhere where you can do it Legally it's an option. Definitely. Oh, thank you. Thank you take and we run out of time If you have more question for him, he's and the food hacking tent, right? Yes, all right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you a big applause for him


Daily Tech News Show is made possible by its listeners, thanks to all of you, including Philip Less, Daniel Dorado, and Howard Yermish. Coming up on DTNS, Twitter, Telegram, and now Snap want to sell you a subscription, but they're not giving us what we want in a subscription. Plus, Cyber Pirates at Sea, that's literally true, and Tech to End Bicycle. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, June 29th, 2022 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. In Salt Lake City, I'm Wednesday's Scott Johnson. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. You know, it is a lost opportunity to book someone named Wednesday. I know. You'll never do it, though. That's a rare thing. You'll find a million Scott Johnson's, no Wednesdays. Yeah, that's the old saying. In a world of a million Scott Johnson's, there are so few Wednesdays. Where are the Wednesdays? Well, this is a Wednesday, and so we start with a few tech things you should know. Mozilla released Firefox 102 with a feature that strips tracking information for the end of URLs. Links sometimes include a question mark followed by a bunch of numbers and letters. You might look at that and say, what does it mean? That's one of the most common ways to add tracking to links. Firefox's query parameter stripping feature, as it is so pluckily called, takes that tracking info off of the URL when you click it and when you paste it into your address bar. You do need to turn it on yourself in the privacy and security settings under enhanced tracking protection. One of the five U.S. commissioners, Brendan Carr, former aide to Ajit Pai, shared a letter sent to CEOs at Apple and Alphabet alleging that TikTok functions as a sophisticated surveillance tool and does not comply with app store policies of either company. Carr asked each company to provide statements on why the app was allowed to remain up by July 8th. U.S. District Judge William Orrick in San Francisco ruled that former Uber Chief Security Officer, Joseph Sullivan, will face wire fraud charges over an alleged role in trying to cover up a 2016 cyber attack that leaked information on millions of drivers. Prosecutors alleged that Sullivan agreed to pay the attackers $100,000 in Bitcoin and signed nondisclosure agreements saying that they didn't steal the data. Uber settled claims by all 50 U.S. states regarding the data leak back in 2018 for $148 million. I just realized something. Brendan Carr should have read his letter on TikTok and then put it out there for duets. He would have gotten even more people paying attention to it. Nothing confirmed to input that its upcoming phone will use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 778G Plus system on a chip, that's the mid-range one, customized to offer wireless charging and reverse wireless charging. Founder Carl Pay said the decision to use a mid-range chip came down to performance, power consumption, and of course, cost. The central bank of Taiwan has reportedly finished trials of its central bank digital currency and is ready to make it available for public retail use. No timeline was announced for the rollout, however. Taiwan's central bank governors said that the public must be educated about the benefits and a legal regulatory framework must be put in place before launch. But the technology itself is ready. Ooh, CBDCs, you know, because you listen to this show, you know they're on the way. Here comes another one. All right, let's talk about those subscription services I mentioned. Well, why not? Let's start with Snap. They began offering a $3.99 a month subscription called Snapchat Plus because everyone uses Plus now. Anyway, offering exclusive and early access features currently it lets you change the app icon, see who's rewatched your stories, and pin a friend to the top of the chat history. Snap does not expect this to be much of a material new revenue source. That's an actual quote. And expects ads will remain, quote, the core of our business model. Note that this subscription does not remove ads. Nevertheless, subscriptions are all the rage. Snap's latest effort joins Twitter's premium service, Twitter Blue. Telegram's got their Telegram premium and there's always been or has been for quite a while, Nitro from Discord as examples of popular services that are free, but charged for little extra features here and there. So let's go through some of these offerings and talk about who they might be for. Yeah, yeah, because honestly, everybody says they want a subscription that removes ads. So Snap not doing that, I think, is going to raise my eyebrows. Twitter Blue is only $3 a month, slightly cheaper than Snap's $4 a month. It does not remove ads. It removes ads from articles you click on from partners, which is very limited. But it does give you custom app icons. Duolingo does this too. I pay for Duolingo for other reasons, but it does things like custom app icons. There's also themes, top articles. You get UndoTweet. I guess that's the big one. Yeah, that's the one that's supposed to be the big one. Real quick, I just wanted to say that the UndoTweet feature is horribly implemented and we can talk about that later. Well, you mentioned Discord Nitro Scott and I know a lot of folks who pay for this. It's 99 per month with a server boost. Otherwise, $5 a month without. You get sort of the same type of expanded and custom emoji options. You can have an animated avatar. Let's you stand out a little bit. Profile badges. If you want to upload something, anything above 100 megabytes is allowed if you've got Nitro. And you also have that capability to do HD video and screen share. I don't know a ton of folks who use Discord for HD video, but I know you're out there. So this actually seems like one of the offerings that makes the most sense to me. If you're really into Discord. Doesn't let you change the app icon, though. What good is it? Oh man, for Net 10 Box, they should let you change that. Very good point. Actually, Larry Daletta at our chat points out, you can just use Nova Launcher to change any app icon. You don't have to pay anybody for it. Anyway, Telegram Premium rolled out June 19th. That one's $5 a month. It actually removes ads. So that's one that people might go, yeah, that's enough, I'll do that. Also increases your download top level from two to four gigabytes, offers faster downloads, doubles a lot of things like the amount of channels you can have, chat folders, favorites, accounts on an app. You can do nice little cosmetic things like Longer Bio. Also does voice to text if you pay for it. And then lots of other like GIFs and stickers and badges and app icons that are specific to premium, but no ads. That is nice. I will say this, the one problem I have with Twitter is that they're inconsistent with their implementation. And these other two examples, and you could add others to this like YouTube Premium and others that are more web-based services, but they have apps and so on. So you know, you could argue what those are, but my problem with Twitter blue was, and I used it for a month, I was really curious. And I thought, well, I'll pay for this, if this is gonna be beneficial to me. And the number one thing there was undo tweet. And the promise there was, you'll be able to not only undo the tweet. Yeah, it's what everyone on Twitter's been asking for for, you know, since 2007. Next to the edit button. Yeah, next to the edit button. That's the best thing, right? Yeah, in fact, this is the thing people say, well, if you're not gonna give us edit, give us this. So it's there on mobile, it's horrendous. You'd use this feature and it sends you somewhere completely different than where you originally were. Now, they may have fixed this in the last month, but I couldn't get off of that thing fast and it was, it drove me crazy. The web implementation, totally fine. No issues, worked as designed. So I feel like they fumbled a little bit on their subscription because their number one selling feature was just kind of borked on mobile. But Nitro, I get Nitro and wasn't sure about it until I got it. I thought, well, what's the harm in doing the free trial? And I ended up sticking with it just for larger uploads, not even HD video so much, although that's a decent advantage when you're doing conference with people or whatever, but larger than 100 megabyte files is massive compared to what they give you as the default service. So I think it just sort of depends on what you weight as an important feature. And in telegrams case, maybe it is no ads and Twitter's case, maybe it is undo and maybe in Nitro's case, their big selling point, at least to me, is the less limits on size of files, but subscriptions are clearly the future, folks. We're here, we're doing it, we're going. That said though, I mean, when I'm looking at what Snapchat Plus is offering, and granted, I haven't used Snapchat in any regular capacity for years now. It's just, I'm just kind of off the platform, even though I check in once in a while, but I go, all right, changing app icon, that might matter to you. See who rewatch stories starts to get a little weird to me, unless you're a brand and that is really good intel for you to have of who might be coming back to this content that you're offering that is designated to promote something over and over, otherwise it's like, this is kind of starts to get into weird territory. Pending a friend to the top of a chat history, okay. I mean, none of this sounds like something I would pay $4 a month for. But again, not the target audience and I haven't been for some time. It's interesting what some of these platforms do.  You might go, well, why did the company even bother? I think they just wanna see who pays because maybe they're wrong. It's really interesting. I think your rights, Scott, that subscriptions are on the way. I don't know which of these are actually more successful, but I can tell you Discord and Telegram's list looked to my eyes like they paid attention to features people were asking for and provided those. Whereas Twitter and Snap looked like they came up with features they wanted to make or sort of tried to come up with easy stuff they could sell. And both Twitter and Snap say, well, this really isn't the final form. This is really just a test. We're really just trying things out. Whereas Discord and Telegram are like, this is our subscription product, please, if it sounds compelling, subscribe. So you can tell the difference in those lists. Yeah, I do think it's interesting that most of them come down to one or two things that will grab people. Whereas the rest feels really fluffy, even in Discord's case, it's like, do I really need animated avatars? I guess it's nice perk if you're paying and you may as well use it, but is it really that big a deal? More emojis? I mean, really, we got thousands of them. Do we really need more? Like a lot of these don't sell me until I see one item. Larger uploads and HD screen share. Those are the two that got me. And then the other stuff make you feel like you're getting more for your money. Like I wouldn't have paid for the emojis, but oh, it's nice to have this one right now that I wouldn't have it. And that's what I'm saying is I feel like Snap is missing whenever that is. Snap is only the fluffy stuff. Yeah, it's all fluff. All right, well, let's talk about riding bicycles. Shall we? I don't currently own a bicycle. I wish I did because riding a bike is fun. But if you have one, there are a lot of advantages. You can weave through otherwise stopped traffic if you live in an urban area. It's good exercise, it's fun.  That's true, we are all carbon emitters. There are lots of reasons why more people don't ride bikes though. And one of them in most parts of the world is theft. When you get to your destination, you either have to take your bike with you inside. I used to do that at some of the places I worked. Or go through quite a bit to secure it with multiple locks or even wheel removal. Make one mistake and your bike might be gone or mostly gone, everything, but that one wheel might be left when you get back. Yeah, this is, in certain places, a pretty rampant problem. In fact, a friend of mine just had a real nice bike stolen from his garage at home and was not happy, understandably. MIT Technology Review has an article about a startup called UNI, that's O-O-N-E-E, that's developing a kit for modular parking pods that can securely, so they say, store eight to 80 bicycles at a time. Even scooters, because scooters are, you know, more or less the same form factor. If you wanna protect your bike from rain and snow, also a nice bonus, depending on where you live. Writers can use a key card or a smartphone to unlock a pod, each of which have a security camera. So the implication is that it is safe, and if it isn't safe, we'll know who did it. Membership is free and includes insurance against theft. So you might say, cool, sounds great. How does UNI make money? The company says it sells ads on the outside of the pod structures. Of course it does. Oh, like a park bench kind of thing. Right, and listen, that's not a terrible idea. It's just, you know, we're not reinventing the wheel. UNI launched in New York City and Jersey City, both in New Jersey, a state in the US, and has about 4,000 users with plans to expand. So it's a small amount of folks at this point, but man, if you're a bicyclist, this might really appeal to you. Yeah, I thought they were in New York, but I may be wrong about that. One thing I definitely was wrong about is I thought these were locks. And Roger told me in the pre-show meeting, he's like, no, I think you have to provide your unlock. And he was absolutely right.  So really the theft prevention here is making it another step to get to your bike. You have to unlock the pod. So I'm not sure how safe this is because anybody can have a free membership and unlock the pod and then get at your bike, which is just using the same lock that you were using before. Now granted, they're adding security cameras and they're ensuring your bike. So they're putting their money where their mouth is. And I guess that means they think it's enough of a dissuasion to have that camera there and the extra step of having to get into the pod that it'll keep people from stealing it. But I thought this was gonna be a lot more ironclad. I had imagined when I first saw the headline that this would be a single pod, you'd put your bike in, someone would have to break into the pod to even get at your bike. Instead, it's more of just like a bike rack locked behind a door. Yeah, at the very least, I thought maybe the pods would have a way to isolate your bike and lock it in place as part of the functionality of the pod. Instead, what they're really just saying is, well, what if you still locked your bike but you did it within the storage container? I mean, that's really the difference here. Yeah, that sounds, which is sure, that's one more level of protection. If somebody really wants to steal a bike quickly, they might go, eh, the pod is too complicated, I'll find another bike. And I know in San Francisco in particular, I mean, the bike theft issue, I know this happens a lot of other places.  It's people go through so many hoops to try to make sure that their bike is not stolen, even if it's securely locked up in a garage where nobody has the key to your garage. I mean, theft happens. And so I feel like the promise of these pods is like, well, that's cool, but all somebody has to do is figure out how to get into the pod. And then it's the same story and that would be the same case if it was in the foyer of your apartment building. Yeah, if anything, anytime somebody comes by and opens the pod to get their bike normal, pod access to get your bike back, you are at least temporarily saying, here's an open pod full of all these bikes. Also, it's a free membership. Anybody can create an account and say whatever they want on the account, use a burner phone and get in and get the bikes. So I don't know. I think what I do like about UNI is that they are trying to force the conversation about bicycle parking and saying like, look, when you build a building, you talk all kinds of ways about how are the cars gonna get in and out, where are they gonna park? Nobody talks about bicycle parking. Everybody builds bike lanes and doesn't do any bicycle parking. So I like the fact that they are at least doing that. So maybe if you focus less on the theft and more on just the idea of like comfortable out of the rain bicycle parking, this is worth it right there, especially because again, it's free. They're subsidizing it with ads. And I imagine they get a little money from the city to install these too. Yeah, maybe pretty them up. They're kind of bulky and ugly. I'm just, you know, I'm not trying to do that. Really? I thought they look kind of nice. They look okay. They just look like they're just long. What do you think they look all right? Here's the thing. It's like those communication containers that they just plop down in Chinese cities and say, all right, you have internet and it's just kind of a big ugly gnarly blob. Oh no, I thought they had like nice rounded corners and look kind of spacey. I don't know. It looks like something dropped cargo. You're the designer though, so I know I'm wrong. It looks like dropped cargo from a plane or something. I don't know. I can't tell how I feel about that yet. I also, I do not condone theft of any kind, particularly bicycle theft.  Because clearly bikes are being stolen to be sold. And I just don't know. Like I don't know who are the people that are all involved in something where it's so lucrative to steal bikes all the time. Yeah, I often wonder that myself, but I also just accept that it's absolutely true because bikes are stolen all the time. Yeah, it must be a big old market, some kind of something going on there. Or it's just steel for use. I can't afford a bike. So I'm just gonna take one. Could be. Yeah, yeah. Well, folks, what do you think about this? Do you think this solves bike theft? Are you living in New York City or Jersey Sissy? And you've been used one of these. Let us know on the socials. You can get in touch with us on Twitter at DTNSShow and on Instagram, DTNSPix, DTNSPIX. We are happy to hear from you. Please do it. Bloomberg reports that in February, 2019, a container ship bound for New York detected a malware attack on its ship systems. Now, fully autonomous ships are just beginning to be tested, so it wasn't like they could take over a boat without any people on it. But many cargo ships have automated systems for steering, propulsion, navigation, and other operations. Thankfully, the February intruder never gained control of the vessel's movements, at least not that time. But attacks can hit ports, not just ships. India's busiest container port suffered a ransomware attack this past February. That same month, a targeted attack against a freight forwarder in Washington critically affected its systems for about three weeks. And in May, a supply chain company in California temporarily lost access to its asset management platform. I mean, couldn't tell where its stuff was supposed to be. A security company called Blue Voyant surveyed shipping companies and found 93% of them had suffered a direct breach with the average number of intrusions rising from 2.7 per company in 2020 to 3.7 last year. And that affects our logistics quite a bit because around 80% of global trade goes by sea. You may think about trucks, you may think about planes, but most of it's going by sea. So there's a large and lucrative surface area for attack. The good news is shipping companies have money to spend right now and are equipping their fleets and new ships with real time tracking devices and sensors that can connect to the shore and report problems instantly. The bad news is all those sensors and connectivity provide another avenue of attack and also need to be secured, not to mention the shore based systems that need to be secured. In order to secure new tech, especially in older vessels the UN's international maritime organization has issued some guidelines for safety and security for companies to adopt. They issued that starting in 2021. They aren't exactly pleased with the uptake though. The challenge at sea is the same as it is on land. Companies may not take a threat seriously until it happens to them. And the reason they wanna rationalize that is because the cost and time it takes to implement proper security is not small. It makes it hard for those arguing for preventative measures. So there's that. And then like every other industry we also need more communication. We need companies to share information on attackers with each other so they can all prevent the attacks. And companies just aren't used to sharing information with each other easily. So it's kind of the same story we have on land. It's just also at sea because connectivity is reaching out into the ocean. Also seems like you, I know there are shipping lanes and certain, you can't just kind of willy-nilly go wherever you want in terms of international waters and that sort of thing. I'm surprised to hear that it's 80% of global trade happening there, but then that, knowing that that much is happening, that much is being transported via water and then have the companies act like, well, we're not really, we'll wait until it happens to us. I mean, I know they're not saying that, but they're not reacting. But dragging their feet, but we've seen that with every company. The reason it happens with a sea company is no different than the reason it happens with your bank or credit bureau or whatever, right? Yeah, that's true. I guess what I'm saying is it seems like, I don't know, for some reason I'm thinking of space, forgive me for one second, when we get to space, I always go, man, all these ideas of space pirates, that's so overblown.  You'll always have it to yourself. Sure. And then I hear this about the water and I'm like, it's kind of like that on a smaller scale. So maybe it is a thing we should think about and worry about. Well, because two things. One is you do the attack when it's coming into port. So you can keep track of the ports a lot easier than the routes in between, right? Sure, sure. And with the connectivity, you don't have to be next to it. True. You just need to be able to get to it over the internet. And if it's always connected, that means you can always get to it.  It's like, what are your options? There aren't really.  That's the way you got to go because nobody else can accept you on demand. And I don't know, that might be something that changes in the future, especially with autonomous cargo ships. But at this point, I think it's, yeah, I mean, it's a real problem. I think the risk is less that somebody wants to get the cargo, although I think that is a risk, but more ransomware. Ransomware is where it's at, right? So I'm going to lock up this ship and I don't know, maybe I'll send it off on a course somewhere else if it's autonomous, but even if I can just lock it off so that the crew can't properly operate it, until you transfer X number of Bitcoin into my account and then I'll unlock it. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I don't know, this stuff kind of fascinates me because it's not like we haven't been, you know, we've been doing this for hundreds of years, like shipping lanes and ports of call and everybody bringing in their stuff and it's been there as long as we've had boats and seafaring technology, but I do think it's, I don't know, weirdly time that that all got in line with really great security options, not just in the ports, but on the ships themselves. And if I was in charge of any of that, I would want to do it sooner than later. As long as we've had ships, we've had pirates. So I guess this shouldn't surprise it. Also, I want to apologize for using the word boat improperly at the beginning of this conversation. I knew it as soon as it came out of my mouth. Sorry. Oh, because a ship and a boat are different. I called cargo ship a boat in passing. Yeah. Like two ships that pass in the night, actually. Our seafaring audience supports and accepts your apology, Tom. Thank you. My dad was in the Navy, he would be appalled. There you go. Yeah, mine was too. On Tuesday, NASA's rocket lab successfully launched the 55 pound capstone CubeSat, which is designed to orbit the moon eventually. This is part of NASA's Artemis mission to send humans to the moon for the first time since 1972. We have been talking about it for a while, y'all. And people are getting close. Rocket lab used an electron rocket with an add-on called the lunar photon upper stage, which has the power to send it into deep space. Electron is a small rocket. It's made to launch a payload to lunar orbit. That's what it's made for. It launched from rocket lab site in New Zealand's Mahia Peninsula. And rocket lab told TechCrunch recently that it's the highest mass and the highest performance electron has ever had to fly by quite some margin. So they're pretty happy with the results. Capstone will orbit Earth for nine days. That's in order to generate enough speed for a trans-lunar injection or TLI. And if all goes to plan, it will eventually be able to orbit the moon. The Gateway Space Station is the next mission that would be SpaceX delivering it as a science lab and living quarters for astronauts and ports for future spacecraft. Yeah, so a couple of things going on here. The electron rocket itself is pretty cool.  Pretty cool as well. Here we go. No space pirates yet. Yeah, not yet. We've had since 72 to work on this. Hopefully we have a few ideas. Yeah, it does. I've been very skeptical of the Artemis mission, but it's starting to look like maybe it'll happen. We might actually see people set their feet on the moon again, which is pretty exciting. Well, y'all have fun up there. Oh yeah, that's right. Sarah ain't going. It'll not be Sarah's feet. I'm not going to the moon. You let me know if it's fun and if it's made of Swiss cheese, that's all I care about. Yes, over in the mail bag Thor from Bohr. Thor says it's sunny and delightful in Bohr, Norway this time of year. Thor says just wanted to add on to the tips on what to do when you want to avoid tracking data while still using helpful tools on your phone. This is a conversation that we had with Lamar Wilson on the show yesterday. Thor says maps.me can download maps offline to your phone. That allows you to turn off all communication, but you can still route with GPS. Since GPS is the only one-way communication because you get data from satellites, but you're not sending anything back, you can get directions without sharing your data. Maps.me can store a log of your location history locally, but that's a feature that's off by default, although it is a feature. But if you really want to be sure you may want to wipe the app's data after you're done using it. And Thor finishes by saying, sorry for not waiting until Thursday. I hope Scott can forgive me. I'm emailing from a Viking market if that helps. Okay, so it's an old, we made a reference last week, just briefly about Thor and Thursday.  I'm just kidding. I actually didn't, full disclosure. I was like, I needed the joke explained. Thursday is named after Thor, Thor's day. Yeah, it's Thor's day. It's Thor's day, yes. But today is Odin's day, Wednesday. Yeah, yeah. But it's okay. We could still read Thor's email on Odin's day. And Thor might be listening by Thursday. That's right. So it all works. Very good point, very good point. Also, very good tip from Thor. We should not lose sight of that. This is, maps.me is great. Obviously if you have GPS on, you want to make sure nothing else on the phone is also taking that location and logging it any of your other apps. So you want to limit the other apps. But great, great idea to use that and just say like, you don't even log my location but now I could still use it for navigation. Thank you, Thor, for that. That's awesome. Indeed, Thor, you're the best. If you have feedback, if you have tips, if you have questions, anything we talk about on the show, we would love to hear about it. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com is where to send that email. Thanks to you, Scott Johnson, for being with us today. Even if it's not Thor's day, it's always a great day with Scott. What's been going on since we saw your last? Well, lots of stuff. I'm going to tell people to make sure they check out my core video game podcast called Core. It's all about video games for the modern era, whether we're talking about consoles or PCs or whatever. And the reason I want to point you there is because for whatever reason, that show has been popping, new listeners all the time, all kinds of great conversations that everybody keeps telling me how much they love it. So I believe them.  It's at frogpants.com slash C-O-R-E, that's core. And for everything else, ping me on Twitter. I'm Scott Johnson over there. Excellent. We always thank new bosses when we get them and we thank longtime supporters. And sometimes somebody gives us a raise and we'd like to thank them as well. So we'd like to thank our boss, Brian, who did give us a raise. Brian sent in a real nice note that Cameron, his son, has been enjoying good day internet and we're happy to have them along for the ride. Apparently Cameron was the one who said, you know, I should give him a raise. So Brian did. We also would like to shout out Jackie the dog as well because Brian sent in a dog photo and that is 100% appreciated at all times. Yeah, as I understand it, Brian said, you've got $5, who do you want to give it to? And we were the first choice. So really Cameron's a new boss, if you look at it that way. Indeed. Yeah, so yes. Let's thank our brand new boss, Cameron. Thank you brand new boss, Cameron and Jackie. Yeah, yeah, could be you tomorrow.  Let's find out. Speaking of good day internet, GDI rolls right after we wrap up DTNS. If you wanna know more, patreon.com slash DTNS is where you can find out. Just a reminder, we do the show live Monday through Friday for PM Eastern, 200 UTC, find out more at dailytechnoshow.com slash live. We are back again tomorrow because we do it every weekday. Justin, Robert Young will be with us then. Talk to you soon. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. I hope you have enjoyed this program.


You see what I'm saying? Like I'm excited, but I'm just shocked because I'm watching it for a seat. Yeah, we on Boss Talk 101, 101. So when he went, did he call you when he made it? He called the whole trip, cause keeping in mind, he's a baby. Yeah. I don't care what, you know what I'm saying, like at the end of the day, even getting his first tattoo, mama, what I need to put on this, and so he's still a baby, so he called, called, and what's the funny thing is that when he made it to Hattixburg, I think it was, his clothes didn't make it at the same time. So he panicked. But keep in mind, the rap battle happened the very next day of him getting to Philly. Spent the projects with just one room. So I had to sleep on the floor in the front room. Me and all my cousins on the block trying to thug. Nigga, you a schoolboy. Nigga, we was selling drugs. Wow. You know, the battle that everybody knows about. So what did he wear? He had on his clothes, but they went to the mall and yeah. Oh, he got some more clothes. I believe I'm not really even sure I hadn't even had the discussion. We queued to see what he, you know, when he had on what he had on at the rap battle, they had to buy it. I was raised so illegal. The baddest nigga in the neighborhood talking back to the niche at my house. It was real cold and lonely. My dad had been gone since four. Because I mean, his clothes hadn't made it. But him winning at $10,000, they called maybe a day or two after to say that the clothes had made it.  Now you didn't got your little money. You don't want to go. He probably going shopping with that $10,000 and be like, I don't need these clothes. But he knew one thing.  I ain't stealing no more. So I'm going to need you to go get these clothes. You know, so we went and got them. So how long was he staying up there for? Cause you said, you know, that was a couple of days and then the clothes came. How long did he stay for? I think he was in Philly for about a week after once the rap battle happened. I think it was a few more days because then his team kind of flew up there within the next couple of days. So they might've been up there maybe, maybe a week or two. I just remember it had to be a week or two because he wasn't home for Christmas that year. Were you nervous the whole time while he was gone? I kind of wasn't cause my son a survivor. Like he, he could just, he was his mama's child. And even like being in Dallas when I would work, Snoop survived. So I really didn't have that kind of worry. You see what I'm saying? Cause nobody took care of him while you were at work. He was at home by himself. Even at eight years old, he was starting. I would just tell him, don't you answer the door. Don't you do this, don't you. So he was, I had to educate him to have him more mature just like me. It was a cycle. It's like I had to have him ready because we don't have anybody else but us. So I need you to be here. You're my team player at this point. You're not my kid. You're my team player. We got to make this work. So that's how it went. Wow, he's, yeah, that's different, man. So he went up there, he won the battle. Was he excited he called you when he won? He wanted, he called me as soon as he won. They said mama won. But the thing about it, he called me before he went in there and he said, I'm about to go perform. No, I'm going in here hella up. He said it was, because it was Ti's rap battle. I mean his Ti's album release party is what it was. So he saw I'm about to go into this rap battle. He said Amika's about to put up some money behind me and this other guy's going to put it up for his artist. And he said something about Ti.  So in them days, prior before when Snoop was like seven or eight when Ti first came out, that was like the little crush at the time just cause I was just a fan of the music more so cause I thought I was a rapper. So he, when he said Ti, I said, yo daddy Ti. You know, that was that you can have whatever you like time see. So Snoop said, that was way before then, wasn't it? Yeah, that was when he, they sat and motivation and all of him, like that whole record. You don't know me. Man, yeah. That was the one. Yeah. You know, head of the body, leader of the team. Oh man, she love it. Yeah, so that was so funny. So when Snoop said mama, get off the gas. That's not my daddy. So, you know, that was a little joke we did. But then he, I said, well, I'm going to pray that you win. And he said, man, I got that in a bag. Hmm. That confidence. 30, 40 minutes he called, he was like, I won. Man, he going that thing. What was your reaction? I was excited for him because it's like, just think about this. This was like a disbelief. Last week, you getting on my nerves to the fullest.   You don't live from out of there.  But now I'm on the top.  My chain in my watch.  You see what I'm saying? Like, I'm excited, but I'm just shocked because I'm watching the front seat. And you have to accept all of this as much as you saying, you're not going to be a rapper. You're not going to this. You're not going to that. He was determined to be what he wanted to be. How can I get in between when him and God had gone? Snoop prayed so hard and he asked God for certain things. And so who am I to stand in between what God gave him for his life? And he had a relationship with God. He definitely. So he would pray about it, about his career and everything. He got on his knees and prayed about everything.