Okay, what I'd like to try to accomplish in the last hour that we have before we break for dinner is I think Chris would really like more information about what we would like her to do with the model she's developed. We talked about getting data for exposure in young children and that will be provided to her, data relevant to exposures in pregnant women. What other issues would members of the CHAP like her to explore? I think we kind of agreed that the points of departure and the reference doses that are in those two scenarios is sufficient. We don't, at this point, need to use other values. What else would we like her to do? Besides the data you showed for children's tethers and stuff like that, is there any other data you've collected on things like children's shampoos and things of that sort? Yeah, we didn't look at cosmetics because they're not in our jurisdiction. Okay. Well, they weren't covered and they aren't covered by the rule, but we did look at childcare articles and trying to think what does this include things like cups? I need to bring up the list. Well, whenever you select a few, not a laundry list and add it to the ones that you have, you're going to be giving us the data for already and I think that can be used effectively to help give the, you might say, the ground truth to some of the values that we see in data. Okay, okay. And I think Holger and I also, and just to let everybody know, we ended our debate pretty quickly. We decided we were going to ignore all the human data and just go with the model data because there's uncertainties also in all the biological data and the moment you start looking to define uncertainties with greater and greater detail in one set of data you got to do in the other and I think we'll just loss, we'll get, we'll do exactly what Phil didn't want us to do, get lost in the weeds because the uncertainties will just overlap. We're going to, we're going to leave it just with the model data. Sort of playing on that, do we want Chris to do things like what if 75% of the exposure is dietary? If so, what specific, what ifs would we like her to, to explore? And so that percent, those percentages are some I need to give me reasonable values for which chemicals and what, what percentages. So we need to, we need to get some specifics here so we can make assignments either to, to Mike and the staff or to members of the panel that will actually come up with the information that we need. So if we, since we can calculate at least estimates of daily intake in micrograms per kilogram per day units, since Mike can give us values at least for some of these toys, at least on average or whatever kind of distribution, then if we also on the other end have percentage of some of the chemicals that are, that we think at least on average might come from food. And we're kind of wiggling our way down to figure out, are those values, are they going to overlap or are they sort of telling the same story? I mean, so it's somewhat. It brings us closer to closure on it. And I think that was what I was trying to achieve and I think that's what Bernard wanted us to achieve this morning so that we knew we're in the same bull park for both down up from bottom up and up down. That works because then we can have scenarios where how many times a child drank out of a cup per day and what the migration rate is based upon things of that, that sort, and you can have it over a course of a year. Those kinds of items will help you determine how much of the urinary component for different chemicals. And I think we have to select three or four or five. I think that was one of the things that was being suggested to see where we sit on the scale. So at least we know, you know, still probably 90% or 80% diet. But I think let the data from the exposure scenarios drive that final decision. And I think that would be reasonable. I think we have to select the agents we want to look at. And I defer to toxicologists to give me a little bit of guidance on which ones you think are the lowest hanging fruit or the most important hanging fruit. If we can put that off just temporarily, that's one of the things I'd like to get back to. But in terms of helping Chris with a list, Chris, in terms of where the exposures are coming from and how much is coming from different exposures, maybe we can just leave that as something we would like you to do. When you start thinking about this, when you go back home, you're probably going to come up with questions on how am I going to do this and what information you'll need, then you could get back to Mike and or members of the committee and get help with that. Well, also, I think me and Holger will be able to help you out in terms of, once Mike gives you some data, we can then help you expect to how to use that data appropriately to make a scenario. So I'll be involved with that with you. And perhaps maybe we should get into what Paul was talking about in terms of what agents are we going to be focusing on, because one of the things I think we might like you to do is what other anti-androgens might we want to look at using your scenario and maybe different combinations of phthalates and other anti-androgens based on some logic that I'm not aware of, but that sort of thing. So I think maybe we need to talk right now about what phthalates, what phthalate substitutes and what other anti-androgens are we interested in plugging into this hazard index analysis. The requirement would be that there'd have to be metabolites or exposure levels and or concentration levels in children and in teens. So I mean, as long as that was the case, they could be added. Or whether there were other databases that had that information. I mean, I don't really know, Russ, what other... Are you saying, and Haynes, because that's where you think they would be found, or you would want it to come from the same database as the phthalates? I think it's difficult to get raw data from people who feel like they have ownership of their data, even if it's nationally funded. I mean, I know we're going to request data from people, whether or not they'd let us actually use it in the way we want to. So I know I can get to Haynes in a timely way. I don't know that I can actually get into somebody else's data. I hope so. I don't want to be a naysayer, but it's more difficult than this potential that people won't agree to it. So we know we have access to Haynes is the reason I'm saying. What about the stuff from Columbia? I mean, it's going to be hard to get. Well, we haven't asked yet. I mean, Columbia would be a fairly... I don't think so. Robin Wyatt and Perera. Pardon me? Robin Wyatt and Ricky Perera. I would think that Robin would want to... Yeah, if it's released anonymously, just with maybe the phthalate levels and a few covariates. So maybe you might want to ask them, because they've got a really good database. That's six, seven hundred pregnant women, I think. Does Mary Wolf also have a set of data? Yes, yeah. Oh, I think from Mount Sinai, Mary Wolf might be another person to... Bruce Lamphere, who's... Bruce, yes. Who's in Vancouver. He's in Cincinnati, but it's in Vancouver now. He has phthalates in his data set. So those are three good... This is related to pregnant women, so yeah. So let's get back to the list of phthalates and anti-androgens. Are there any out there that either there is... We know of compelling databases where we could extract the information and use it, or some other reason why we should look to see if there are data. If we look at the data from individuals, I think there is no better data set than in Haynes. And I don't think that with the pregnant women and newborns, we have any other data than phthalate data. Do we have... Did they analyze any anti-androgens or any other chemicals, maybe except BPA? I don't think that... Some of the pesticides, the non-persistent. Some of the pesticides, yeah. So we have to be aware that as soon as we leave the secure and Haynes track, we are getting on tricky surface, or let's say not so robust or... But that shouldn't preclude us from venturing out into the forest and see what we can find. If we can trap some good data, well then we should use it. Question then becomes how do we do that? How do we step out into the forest or into the forest to see what's there? Is that something... Well, and to ask if we can use it... Can we publish it? Can we... What are the parameters around using somebody else's data? Mike, do you have criteria that you can... A letter to or a discussion with an investigator saying you'd like this data and this is what we'd like to use it for? I mean, we'll do that. I mean, I don't have any... No process, but we'll ask... We'll explain what the data are for, how they will be used. You know, exactly what information we need. Now, if I remember under the Shelby Act, anything that's funded with federal dollars has been published in the scientific literature they have to hand over. Good. They don't. They have this, I think they do. If it's been published in a scientific article, not if it's something that's in draft, but it's actually been signed and it's being used in the process for discussion of a federal regulation. And if they decide they want to be participant, then the raw data can be ours. I remember because that's what happened with the Harvard...the whole Harvard scenario in the late 1990s and that's what ended up requiring the Shelby Act. Because it's all federal dollars, it's tax dollars. So, you know, I think they'll be more than happy to participate, but this is kind of important for us to have more data than we have now. Going back to Phil's question about other anti-androgens and then hands. I mean, I'm trying to remember what else is there. I don't think they measure Vinclozolin or I don't recall. If the panel is all right, I might volunteer myself to join forces with Chris and Volga to look at these other anti-androgens. I think there might be a few polyborominate flame retardants and compounds like this, but well, we have to go through the NHANES database. I would suggest that's the first port of call and then see whether the other databases that are informative in that respect. Perhaps something might come up at the meeting that's going to occur early next week at the EPA meeting.  Because I'm going for the first day. I haven't seen an agenda yet. Neither have I. I was just wondering if you had an insight. No, but I'm supposed to talk with them before the meeting, like the day before I think so. Or next week sometime prior to the meeting. So I'll see if they have anything. I'm actually presenting on the second day. Okay, but so at least we'll be covered both days. I'm curious if you can have reasonable discussions with the EPA if there's some way of them perusing their databases to see if there's anything to help augment what we're doing. I think you should broach that subject. I will, but I figured since Mike's going to talk to him first. Yeah, well I mean what you're thinking in terms of pesticides or okay. Pesticides primarily. That might be a big can of worms or something. Sure. Pardon me? In terms of what? The concentrations in urine and all that material? There are. There are a lot of data on. In fact, if you look at it, because of the passage of the Food Quality Protection Act in 1990s, the EPA has done an incredibly good job in terms of characterizing multi exposure and the partitioning of the urine levels of the various pesticides based upon food, dust and other things. So they have a wealth of information in that regard. It's a matter of what portion of it would be useful for us that we should be thinking about, but they've done a very good job. Yeah, I mean is it proprietary? No, these are all published. Okay. In fact, they published a gigantic summer report I think a couple of years ago. Okay, well definitely. Sheldon is the lead. She's their lead person in neural who headed the pesticide research program down there. Yeah. A valuable resource at least to find out if they've got data that would be useful to us. So, but are we limiting ourselves to anti-androgen chemicals with the reference doses that are published that are measured where metabolites are measured in inhanes? I mean, unless we go to another data set, but the data set that we have now. I will certainly explore in Haines, but I think Paul is saying that there may be some database information at EPA as well on pesticides. As far as I can see there are no pesticide metabolites or urinary levels of blood levels in inhanes. But what we need is information about exposure to pesticides from any other source and what Paul said with EPA may indeed be very helpful. I just want to point out the complexity of the task, like with Winklosolin. Winklosolin is metabolized to an aromatic amine and aromatic amines are not measured in inhanes. And it's broken down to an aromatic amine that can be metabolized if other substances too, so it's, it's, yeah. But that we can put in the text as to why we're not going to consider it. Right. So what we need to do is to find out what is available for what pesticides and we'll use the data we can and for what we can't, we will say why we can't. And if there's something in there that's really important for the future, we can say that in any reconsideration in the future that people should be considered, should be beginning to plan on how to fill these data gaps. For example, measuring the amine. Right. That's a recommendation we can make. So are we, are we saying this as a way of correcting for any, any approach that we use for the data that we've got? Or because of the requirement for the data, for the approach that we're, that we're talking about is the same levels, you know, one year in value, all these values coming out of it. If we, if we go to EPA data, I mean, we could say there are additional risks due to blah, blah, blah. It's, unless it's. Before we, before we go any further down that road, can I make another plea for perhaps going through the charge and then so I think at this stage we really need an impression what the good work Chris and Holger has have done really helps us in addressing that. Yes, that's what I wanted to get to. But I do think that we do have to consider before we leave tomorrow, what are the agents honing on? Because there's a laundry list that we had the first meeting that took my breath away. And I think, I think all of you were clear in saying that we have to focus more, more specifically on the ones that we think are critical. Okay, so Mike has put up the relevant information. And so I'd like to go to point number one under the second half of that slide. So we are to complete an examination of the full range of phthalates that are used in products for children, including one, all the potential health effects, including endocrine disrupting effects of the full range of phthalates. So to my mind, most of that is going to be done in writing. And then Mike's I think already put together some information that summarizes all the potential health effects. We're going to ultimately focus on male reproductive effects and we'll give our rationale for why we're going to do that. So I think we can handle point number one fairly easily. Any comments? And number two, consider the potential health effects of each of these phthalates both in isolation and in combination with other phthalates. And I think that's the beauty of what you have done that allows us to do that in spades. I mean, make any kind of combinations we want. But that I think does come to the point of what are the phthalates that we're going to consider and other substitutes, other antihandrogens. And I require a little point of clarification here. All of the potential health effects, we need to be clear what this means or how this should be read. There's one, I mean, when I first read this I thought potential health effects, there's an emphasis on hazard assessment. The text in the law is not very clear about this. They say scope of the risk assessment without. But if we apply the terminology or the framework in the red or unread book and now the silver book, we have to distinguish between exposure assessment, hazard assessment and risk assessment. Now, I'd like us to be clear about this point number one. Does this, for example, require an aggregation of information about exposures with information about hazards to come to any risk characterization risk assessment? In my mind, actually, it doesn't because it says all of the potential health effects, the emphasis on potential. So I think we are required to look at the range of adverse effects that are likely to arise from exposure to phthalates but independent of specific exposure levels. Or am I reading this wrongly? I mean, that's how I would interpret that. We would do essentially a laundry list. I agree. To me, that's a selection based upon hazard and how we then partition it depends upon the exposures and other issues. For clarity though, the wording in the statute doesn't say scope of the risk assessment. It describes it as an exam, the CHAPS examination is supposed to cover all these things. So this is my summary. So you can cross out risk assessment and put in examination. Point two is where we then go from our laundry list down to male reproductive developmental effects or what we're going to use as our end points in the hazard index assessment. Everybody agree with that, I assume? We talked about that in the conference call. Then getting to point three, examine the likely levels of children's, pregnant women's and others' exposures to phthalates based on a reasonable estimation of normal and foreseeable use and abuse of such products. What does that mean? I think the same thing that the laundry list means for the hazards. We have to define them, our list, and then we focus on what's most important, which we base someone on the data we'll be getting as examples of what we have to consider noting that the background will be dominated by diet. The point is to lay that out very specifically, that the dietary issue is a confounder, and what we're going to try to do is lay out the scenarios that are most important in terms of children's exposures based upon the relevance of the background for each one of those chemicals we select. But essentially that point is that's exposure assessment. Yes. Exposure assessment. Yes. Point number three. Is that one of the work that we do for estimating daily intake? I imagine showing the distribution of the daily intake for each of the chemicals. Yeah, of course, that's part of it. That's just totally part of it. The biomarkers are not divorced from exposure assessment. They are a component of it. And what you're doing is basically probably the most firmly based science that we have in this whole process. So clearly that is a significant contributor to that, to number three. Just to be clear, so the second part of number three is referring to use of such products, right? So really making conclusions based on toys and children's articles or, yeah. Thanks for that. Well, yeah. I mean, I assume that means products for children. Well, pregnant women, so it's just meeting cosmetics, I would think. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, well, exactly. Completed examination of the full range of phthalates used in products for children. I would think we want limited to children. Yeah. You don't have regulations over cosmetics. Well, we don't have. Yeah, right. We don't have authority over cosmetics. Right. Or food. But food will be used as a baseline, the background. Yeah. Because children and pregnant women eat old food. So, but when we're talking about the actual children's products, I think we're talking about plastic toys. We're talking about plastic utensils, things that they use daily or periodically. And presumably, or things in our jurisdiction. Right. Well, of course. Yeah. You have to lay that out for us, too. Yeah. Then that doesn't make sense because examine the likely levels. Pregnant women's exposure to phthalates in toys. They're not going to be exposed through toys. Not a whole lot. Back to almost nothing. I mean, that makes that. It's an incongruous statement. Yes. Absolutely. It's totally incongruous. There should be two totally separate statements. One about children and toys and products. And then there should be one about pregnant women or women of childbearing age and their products. That's an incongruous statement right there. Plus the abuse of such products. Yes. So we have close to circle. So it's all products. And again, I think we're going to talk about this in a laundry list way. And then what data we have with pregnant women that might inform us we'll use. But that's all we'll have. I mean, is it possible to separate statement three into one that relates to kids and one relates to pregnant women or women of childbearing age? So it is not an incongruous statement. I think it's within the CHAPS purview to make that distinction. Let's do it. Yeah. Otherwise it is nonsensical. We want to try to simulate a scenario that could be representative of exposure levels or at least concentration estimates for daily intake for children less than six years old. So if we're going to. So if we if we so we've got in Haines, we may be able to get other data, but we have in Haines that goes from six to 18. And we can use Mike is going to give you data that would be from zero to 36 months. Well, we're going to try to get by a month. We're going to ask for biomonitoring data from the study authors. What I'm going to what I have is is data that could be used to estimate those exposures. Toys toys and children's things. I think I'm just trying to say that, you know, if we don't get data, at least in a timely fashion or whatever, I mean, I'm just. Gonna have to use you have to use whatever you have from in Haines as your baseline and based upon exposure scenarios that can be constructed. Or the kind of products that can be used from zero to six.  On those products. So therefore, even if it's four or six to 18. You not do not necessarily think that it's going to be there's going to be an overwhelming disconnect there. Unless you find it in the products that they have for children, very young children, the numbers come up real high. And you say that the in Haines data are not applicable, but the levels here are much higher than we find in Haines from six to 18. So therefore it is an issue. The worst that it can be is at least a rough point at which to assess the exposure or intake that we're going to estimate for very young children. So my question is, do we want to try to simulate it based on, I mean, Holger and I did a simple case where we just said DEHP is 50% higher. Do we want to try to improve on that with additional chemicals? Toys that have different kinds of other than the, I mean, I don't even know if DEHP is the right chemical that these toys are made from. But can we make that simulation a little bit more based on real options over? I'm not sure what assumption you make. So maybe you can give me a little bit of clarity there so I can say yes, no, or maybe I think the most important. Approaches to get the urinary data for these children. So that will kick out most of the assumption part and then we'll have to modify the calculation formula. Okay. The more the better. Yeah. Okay. We could also down extrapolate from the enhance data, but I would prefer to base the calculations on on actual data from these studies. I think four kind of answers some of the discussion we were having relative to three because it says, consider the cumulative effect of total exposure to thallies both from children's products and from other sources such as personal care. So I think if we break out the two groups that kind of takes care of that. Yeah. I mean the pregnant or child, a child bearing women versus the children will have a natural segue to personal care products. Yes. And five review all relevant data, including the most recent best available peer reviewed scientific studies of these thallies and thallied alternatives that employ objective data collection practices or employ other objective methods. And we will. Yes. Take a deep breath, right? Six, consider the health effects of thallies not only from ingestion, but also as a result of dermal hand to mouth or other exposure. And I think to the extent that we can do that, we're already talked about that a lot today. I don't see where this is anything different than what? Anything different than number one. Number one, why would we expect the health effects to be modified based on whether you get the material by dermal hand to mouth or inhalation? Unless it's cytotoxic or something. I'm just not sure what that means there. Well, it probably means that for some chemicals, the toxic effect you can expect depend on route of exposure or route of administration. And I think we are asked here to consider that whether that matters. And if we find it doesn't matter, we just say so. Because I think we're focusing on male reproductive, right? Yes. Focus. Would you anticipate this to be driven by route of entry into the body by deposition? There are issues concerning allergies and let's say, what do you say? That our primary focus, right? No, it isn't. It isn't, so I think we can... I think it could also, number six could also mean that when we do the scenarios, don't just do mouthing but include dermal contact and so on. Fine. If we can't. I think that's what they meant, but I don't know. That's the way we interpret it. And all the biomonitoring data do that. They take into account by definition. Sources and routes. Okay. And seven, consider the level at which there is a reasonable certainty of no harm to children, pregnant women or other susceptible individuals and their offspring. And is that something that can be readily done with your hazard index assessment approach? Again, this is six and seven are, again, typical hazard assessment subjects. While they go, they determine the, which was it, the denominator of the hazard quotient. But you don't need any exposure information to address these points. Right. I mean, I think a level of no harm is something like a reference dose, which you calculated and I think that's what they're getting at. The reference dose and then the amount of risk is based upon the amount of exposure. For someone who doesn't do this sort of thing. So how do, how do we accomplish that? We take information from the literature and make statements about whether there's no harm at a certain level. Is that what you're saying? Those values have been published. I mean, the Andreas has published the one set. We have other estimates of them from Earl Gray. Right. So those are our cases, right? That needs to be critically examined to the best scientific standard. Is any of the EPA or are these associated with that too? I think the EPA ones are out of date. That's what the meeting next week is about. Right. Updating those. But I think, you know, Would they have some relevance to seven? I think the, I'm just asking them. I'm wondering how far apart we are. I'm just inquiring. I think the published levels are old and they're updating them. Okay. But I think, you know, you have reference doses. You can calculate your own if you want to. It's up to, you can call them TDIs or something else if you want to. There are some of these data in the Irish, Iris database. Sorry, slip of the tongue. Nothing to do with Ireland. Iris. But the criticism of the NRC panel was that a lot of these data are not suitable for examining, say, effects related to antiretronicity, et cetera, et cetera. So that needs to be looked at, oh, that's EPA's job, but we have to go back to the literature. No, because I was looking at this also. So is this the latest view of the 17? Yeah. So is that part of seven? And for part of the defining, having to the criteria. Well, that was inside. That's a review of the toxicity data that could contribute to seven. To start to come up with a number for seven. Yeah. But we don't necessarily have to come up with the, I don't think we don't necessarily have to come up with a number for all 17 or all 29 or whatever. Back for some of those, the data are from sparse to practically nonexistent. Will that be part of our selection process for the way to use as the chemicals that should be focused on? I mean, the staff came up with a list of phthalates and prioritized them. And those 17 are the bottom two tiers. Perhaps one of the assignments that we should take back to the room tonight is to look through this document so that tomorrow we can go through and say, okay, this is what's out there. Which of these are we going to put into your assessment? Well, I mean, Chris and Holger can only, in terms of their assessment, are limited to what's measured in NPAs. That's true. Now, for the other, the ground up, the limitation isn't there. But on the other hand, if you need to know what products there, I don't think those are high priority ones. I think it's a question of toxicity, usage, and exposure. So if we take, for example, dipental phthalates, it's one of the strongest phthalates that even the industry is not using it. So we might have to talk about it in terms of toxicity, but exposure-wise it's not an issue. So actually one of the strongest phthalates is not hit by the ban. You need to say that. Yeah. Okay, then the final one is consider possible similar health effects of phthalate alternatives used in children's toys and childcare articles. I'm not sure why other products fall out here, but does the... We're not used in the same way. Well, I think it's because the ban, the prohibition applies to toys and childcare articles, and these are the substitutes, because one of the questions, obviously, if you take out the phthalates, what do you put in their place? This is simply to see whether these... to look at the substitutes. And they're saying, in particular, similar health effects. I think for our purposes that means anti-androgenicity. But then that says that if these are anti-androgens that are drugs or pesticides, but they're not used in children's toys and childcare articles, then we don't need to include them. We wouldn't reach out to those groups to reach defined other anti-androgens unless they're phthalates or phthalate substitutes. Yeah. Well, I think eight is specifically to what's going into the toys to replace the phthalates that were removed. I mean, the other anti-androgens that we've discussed is separate. Other comments, Mike, do you have anything else to accomplish? I think we've accomplished a lot today. And I guess I would just... on the subject of the other anti-androgens, our focus is the phthalates and the substitutes. And certainly, we can't ignore that or shouldn't ignore it, those other things, but they're not our primary purpose. Well, that's what we said. Right. So hearing no further discussion, we'll adjourn for today and reconvene tomorrow at 8 a.m. Thank you all. Thank you.


What's up guys? We're back with another epic opening video. Today we're opening the Turbo Warrior 10 that includes those first edition Crossroads of Chaos packs. This could be an insane video, but before that the giveaway. I'll be giving away these three cards. We have a Nios alias pulled by us, tactical evolution card. We got a trap jammer and an invader of darkness secret rare. All you gotta do, like the video, be subscribed and let me know what you want to see from Crossroads of Chaos. I think I know. Also in this video we'll be opening a flaming eternity pack. So that's going to be pretty cool. So we got this as well as the tin and also we have a huge opening that I'm going to be announcing probably later this week I think and it's going to be really really awesome. It's a box that you guys have never seen open on the channel and I know a ton of you guys have wanted to see it. It's going to be pretty cool. But let's go ahead and start off with this opening. Let's open up this flaming eternity pack. We could pull a phoenix wing wind blast. Alternate rare. Even if it's a retail pack of a Tobi, we could pull the sacred phoenix.  So let's go ahead and pop into this and see what we can get. Hopefully something, maybe nothing, but either way, that's how we go. We got something. We got the rescue cat. This is now a $15 common. Yeah, unlimited. $15. We just made $15 on that pull. Well, I guess the pack was, I was actually a gift from the guy who sent us this tin as well. So the legend has hooked us up with a $15 common. So that's really awesome. Rescue cat. You guys should go follow his Instagram. I'll pop it up. Rescue cat $15 car. The last two actually sold right away and TZG player at that price, which is insane. I don't know if it's gone down or up since then, but that was like, just like last week. So it's pretty crazy. Good Galvan housekeeping. Wow, that's a great, that's a great pack. Just that. Hex seal fusion hyena. We got the the Lion King stuff going on here and a meteor of destruction. Okay. Can we get a double rescue cat? Okay, no, but that is okay.  I'm trying to think if there's been one that's even more than that. Unlimited. I really can't think of anything. That's probably the most expensive comment I've ever seen. Great start to this video. Let's see what is in the turbo warrior tin. Let's go ahead and open it up.  How about that? That would be crazy, especially since it's a gift, a gifted tin. He gave us this tin for, for no apparent reason, basically, basically just being clutch and hooking us up. So let's see. First of all, maybe our promo will be nice. It's not that this promo really matters at all. Like, like really? So as you can see that first edition right there on this Crossroads of Chaos packs.  It's just Crossroads of Chaos. You can only get those packs out of these tins, the black rose tins, and the pre-release packs, which basically don't exist anymore. All right, so our promo looks pretty good. That thing is nice. I don't even know if there's a point to grading a turbo warrior. Does anybody care about turbo warrior? I don't know. I think it's a very cheap card, but it does look pretty good in secret rare. I'll give it that. All right, let's get out the rest of this stuff. Let's move this tin out of the way. It's taken up a ton of our room. Okay. And inside we have, first of all, the, what is this? Are these like tokens or something? Let's just open it up to see. I can't remember. We have opened up one of these on the channel before. I've never opened up the black rose one because it's like ridiculous. This one's like $250, but the black rose one is way more. All right, so three tokens. Yeah, I've definitely seen those before. What is, okay, this is a little thing that unfolds, I think, but yeah, we're not going to go through that. Let's see what's in the pack. So we have duals, Genesis. I mean, check out these packs. Oh my goodness. Two first edition Crossroads. That's obviously the massive packs, which is crazy expensive, crazy stuff to find. Then you have phantom darkness, light destruction and the duals Genesis, three amazing packs in a row. Like the potential for this video is crazy. So let's see if we can start with GX. Let's go in order. Light destruction. We usually go backwards, but for this one we're going to go in order because the Crossroads are the newest, but the first day and we can pull black rose, which is in PSA 10, probably several thousand.  I've never, I haven't seen one sell for PSA 10 in a long time. So here we go. Battery man charger. Arcane of four, seven, the chariot. Dice dry. Deformation. Ooh, divine knight. Ishzark. Ishzark. Demyze of the land. Isn't that a good comment? Has it gotten reprinted or not? I think Golden Bamboo's a nice comment too. I'm going to pull both of those out. The Arcana call. So we got a Super Rare. I think I've pulled this guy like three times. I always seem to pull this out of LODT and then it's, it's not a very good one. I don't think. Okay. We've got Golden Bamboo, I think is under a dollar now, but it used to be pretty good. Demyze of the land was like a $7 comment at one point. I think it has gone down. LODT is loaded with great comments. Okay. That's a good start. Our comments so far in this video are nuts. Phantom Darkness. I think this has Super Poly Rare. It has a good comment as well. I think we opened a booster box of this for like the 9K special or something like that. So I'll link that one up if you guys have not seen that one. That was actually a really fun opening. I've only, I haven't opened much of this set. So it's pretty cool. Instant Neospaces. We've got the calculator. I mean, just in case you need some calculations. Destiny Hero Dunker. Wait, there's the UA athlete dunkers or whatever. And there's Destiny Hero Dunker. I didn't realize there was a Destiny Hero Dunker. Okay. Earth Apogee. That's cool. Dark Eyes Illusionist. That's a pretty cool rare. Darius. Darius I think is actually maybe the good one. I think Darius is pretty good. So we're going to pull that out. The commons are kind of on fire right now. They're kind of on fire for this, for this 10. All right, next pack we have the Duelist Genesis Unlimited. We could pull the Stardust. I would take an Unlimited Stardust Ghost Rare. I would take that all day, every day. Let's do this. Okay, this is a tough pack to get into. I'd take the Ultra Rare even. I'd settle for the Ultra Rare. Even the Ultra Rare we take it. I've pulled the Ultra Rare for Junior before. I've never pulled it on myself though. So let's see if we can pull something crazy. Orb of Ysaka. Genesis Light Sworn Mender. Psychic Rejuven. Junk Barrage. Here we go. Looks like a Star Wars escape pod. Fighting Spirit. Okay, Judgment of Thunder. All right, Quillbolt Hedgehog. Telepathic Power. Last two packs. Here's what we all came here for. So we've pulled one full so far, but that doesn't matter. Now is what matters. Potential Ghost Rare. Black Rose Dragon. Black Rose. Ghost Rare, first edition is insane. I mean, I mentioned the PS810 price. Even the Unlimited, the raw price is insane. Over $1,000 for sure if we pull it right now. Big time pull. Beautiful card. Just absolutely beautiful. I'll only get it just so I can show you guys how beautiful it is. That would be nice. Let's do that. We got a Morph Tronic Cord. Morph Transition. Iron Chain Coil. Come on, baby. Teleport. Come on. Akiza. Bring it to us. Cactus Fighter. Okay, just a rare. I think it's, yeah. I don't know where the foil would be. So just a cactus fighter. Okay. It's okay. We're saving it for the last pack. We're saving it for the last pack. This is the one with the Ghost Rare, right? Right? Come on. Ghost Rare, Black Rose. Here we go. Believe, guys. Hit the like button for luck. This would be so crazy. All right. We have an Iron Chain Coil. DNA Checkup. Checking on the world. I've never actually looked at that card. That's kind of funny. All right. Everliving Underworld Cannon. Pursuit Chaser. Okay, is this it? Is this where it happens? Where's it? Trapped with the Imperial Tomb. Wait, could it be after this? It might be after this. Not sure. Okay, we still don't know because we got two. No. Two commons. Why send a legend in here? I always forget that. Two commons or two rares. That hurts. It hurts. But overall, still not too bad. Let's see what we got out of our tin. We got a ton of nice commons. We got, I mean, the best card was out of a loose FET pack. That's really cool. Divine Knight is shark. So we didn't go completely foil-less. We did get three nice commons. We got a decent promo. Not a successful tin, but it was sent in by a viewer, so I appreciate that. Make sure you guys go give them a follow on Instagram. That was really awesome. Oh well.  I hope you guys are excited for it. Let me know in the comments what you think I'm talking about. It's awesome. It's crazy. I've never opened it. Remember that. That's the hint. I've never opened it on the channel, a box, and we're open a box of it. Because obviously I've opened every pack on the every pack opening. But let me know your guesses in the comments what you guys think. We're going to be opening soon. It's going to be really crazy. And that's it for this video. I'll see you guys later. Peace.


xplanation, there is only two explanation, God or the universe. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Brian Stevens says, to the debaters, what if God was one of us? Do you guys know who that was by? Was that Alanis Moran? Just a bum like one of us, yes. I get you, Brian. She is. This one. I think Joan Osborn did a cover of that one. This one from Beamsy says, for Ronnie, one, I am not an atheist. Two, you're conflating nothing and nothingness. Three, talk to a scientist and that will show you how you're wrong. Ronnie? All I can say is I do a lot of research on this topic to see what proponents of both sides say. And I try to look at the middle ground in terms of what they kind of respect about the other person's side. And it's very interesting to me to see that on like a, I don't want to call this a lower tier format, but it's not exactly like we're watching William Lane Craig debate crows. But I kind of feel like atheists on a lower level as well as Christians and theists.   How could they possibly think this? But I mean, that's so disrespectful. I mean, there's millions of people on both sides. So we should see where the other person is coming from. I get the atheist claim. You can't show me God. So I refuse to believe in them. You can't prove to me this being. So I'm always going to be skeptical. But when I bring up how atheism and science don't have a way of describing how something can come from nothing, how they're always going to have this problem of infinite regress, they just don't want to accept it. They just want to act like a pit bull. Show me God. Where's your God? You haven't proven anything. And yeah, it's just, it's really interesting. This one coming in from do appreciate it. Squid super hunk says I'm confused about Ronnie's goals. Is he just trying to quote unquote win the debate? Does he actually want to make convincing arguments between special pleading and nitpicking about the arguments? I'm not sure. I think the one unique thing that I bring to the debate, because it's very hard for anybody to bring something truly unique to an atheist versus theist debate, everything's been said. Anything Mark could possibly say has been said. I think everything that I've said has been said, except for one thing. And that is highlighting the importance of special pleading being permitted to our side. It seems like a lot of deus and theists, they just don't, it's like a dirty word. But when you actually talk to them in private about it, they're like, yes, absolutely. If we weren't to use special pleading, then we wouldn't actually be believing in God. And then they talk about justifying their special pleading. But they know that this word kind of looks bad from the other side. So they just shy away from it. But I'm like, no, what's the point of shying away? They just own it. It's God is God. He's the one thing that's allowed to have special pleading. What's wrong with that? You got it. This one coming in from, let me just check if there are any last ones. Otherwise, I do want to remind you folks, our guests are linked in the description. Highly encourage you to check them out. Melavia, good to see you. Thanks for your membership chat. So sorry to miss the stream, James. See you soon. Thanks, Melavia, for your support. And we're glad you're here. Better late than never. And what I mentioned, it is indeed true. The conference is coming soon, folks. We're excited about this. We do want to say, my dear friends, you don't want to miss this. It's coming up on Saturday, November 19th in Plano, Texas. We hope to see you there in person. In the meantime, we want to say our guests are linked in the description. We highly encourage you to check out their links. Want to say thank you very much. Ronnie and Mark, it's been a true pleasure to have you with us tonight. Thank you, James. So good to be here. And thanks for engaging in the debate, Ronnie. With that, we'll be back. I'll be back and just someone with a post-credits scene letting you know about juicy upcoming debates. So stick around for that. And I'll be back in just a moment. I want to say thank you very much for being here. It has been a truly fun debate.  I've got to tell you, my dear friends, we are excited for a couple of things. In particular, let me just do a little camera capture here. Want to say, my dear friends, video capture device. We are thrilled to have you here.  All right, fair enough. Thanks for your patience. Want to say, my dear friends, thank you for coming by during this debate. It's been a fun one as well as two seconds. This is going to make my life so much easier in the future. Good, there we go. Because I've got to tell you, my dear friends, here's what I want to tell you. We are pumped about this upcoming conference. If you have not heard about it or have not seen it, I've got to show you this. My dear friends, pull in another camera thing. Okay, two seconds. But want to say, is it? No, it's not even working. Two seconds. Here we go. Paste. There we go. So you remember your first time doing this? All right, two seconds. Here we go. Want to say, my dear friends, you might be thinking, James, what exactly is this? We've heard you talk about this conference. What exactly is that? Well, I'll tell you right now, my dear friends, this conference is going to be huge. It is going to be big. It is going to be ginormous. So let me show you right now on screen. DebateCon 2 is what we are hosting, and it is going to be amazing. The link for in-person tickets is in the description box. Highly want to encourage you to check out that link as well as not only that, but just realize I've got to link the guests from tonight. Let me share the Indiegogo link with you. You might be wondering, what is Indiegogo, James? In particular, it is, okay, got that. Good to see you there in the old live chat, Dingley Bumbus, as well as Wilmar and Jeremy Nolan, and hemp equals cannabis and cannabis. Glad to have you here, Brandon Johnson. Good to see you. According to, that is amazing. Jupiter Darman, good to see you, CD. Glad you're here and Brandon Johnson. Thanks for coming by. So the link to the crowdfund mentioned in stream is right here, and I want to give you guys this pitch. This is going to be tremendous in particular. It is in the description box as well. I pinned this link to the crowdfund at the top of the chat because you might be wondering, well, what exactly is it? What's this DebateCon thing? This is our debate conference. It's the second one we're doing. We did our first one in January of this year, and it was a huge success. People really enjoyed it. So they're like, hey, man, you should totally do another one, get some new speakers in addition to last time. In other words, we're changing it up, getting some new faces in there. We have a lot of the same speakers from last time, but a lot of new ones as well. And I've got to tell you guys, this is going to be epic. So let me show you this in particular. Crowdfund, if you are wondering, you're like, well, what debates exactly? Well, here are some of the debates that you can see up above my camera view here. So for example, Destiny versus Nuance Pro is right above me. And then right above me as well, you can see Justin Gibson versus Alex Stein. That's on whether or not Queer Theory is correct, as well as there will be a debate with, as you can see on the far side of the screen, Aaron Raugh and Daniel Hogegichu. That is going to be a big one, folks. We're really excited about it. You don't want to miss it. So that, by itself, is just going to be a monstrous mammoth debate. And you might be thinking, well, James, okay, tell me more. How exactly do you do this kind of thing? Well, we use Indiegogo. You can see the logo for them on screen. Indiegogo is basically a crowdfund, like Kickstarter or GoFundMe. And it is so easy. This is a way in which we basically cover things like venue costs, stuff like that. You might be thinking, well, yeah, but James, do I have to create an account? That sounds like a pain. I'm tired. Who has time for that? You can even sign in with your Facebook. It's that easy. And we are raising funds for the venue cost because it costs about $2,300 just to rent the venue. So this is kind of a safety net. So we can try to raise a little, you could say like a kind of a cushion that way for ticket sales. It makes it a little bit easier. We're like, okay, we don't have to rely too much on ticket sales because we're just starting this. We're pretty new at it.  You can. You can put in $3 for example. You can put in 10 bucks or 25. But $3, the price of a cup of coffee, it's that cheap. And the cool thing is this helps us make these events possible. So I am guessing you're going to enjoy these debates. And if you're watching them, we're saying, hey, we're going through this challenge of making it so that we can host these public debates live for you to watch. And so we're saying, hey, would you be willing to throw three bucks in to help us make this possible? Last time it was like maybe slightly below breaking even. So it was a little bit of a, you could say a little bit in the red. But we, like I said, did it because we love doing what we do. And because we think that this is an important thing for building relationships and putting out epic debates for modern day debates. So we think it's a good investment. But let's say you're like, yeah, I want to watch it. And you're like, hey, can I watch it and not put in any money? I'd like to just do that. Frankly, you can. All of our debates are going to be public. They're going to be live for everybody to watch. You don't have to put in a dime. So this is our, this is instead of us saying, hey, it's behind a paywall, which we've done in the past. We've done it like this where it's like, hey, we would love for your help. Would you be willing to help us if you are going to watch these debates by throwing in a few bucks as that helps us make these events possible? And not only that, it's easy to do it. But you're like, well, I was like, I don't know. Is it easy? Like, yeah, like I said, you can sign in with Facebook. And then here are some of the perks that you can see on screen. So for example, you can just throw in three bucks with no perk. You can throw in 25 bucks and you get a modernated debate, debate con embroidered postcard sent to you in memory, or you could say thanks for your donation. Other ones though, so you can see on the right side of the screen is if you want to ask a question, like a super chat question, there's no way we can guarantee we'll get to read those during the live debate. You can ensure that your question is read first by making a $50 gift toward the crowd fund where we'll actually read your question during the Q&A even though you're not there in person. So we actually read those questions before the in-person audience just because you've supported the event that much. $100 is a Zoom chat with me. And you might be thinking, well, I don't know. Why would I want to do that? Well, one thing is we share the different types of software that we use for modernated debate to make the show possible, all that good stuff, whatever it is that you want to talk about or hear about, that's something that is an option. But not only that, my dear friends, you might be wondering, well, like, I don't know, have you done this before, James? It seems kind of like a leap. We have. We've successfully done this crowd fund strategy before. For example, we raised the funds for Dr. Michael Schermer, the atheist in this epic debate between Christian, Mike Jones, and Dr. Michael Schermer. That was a massive one. I want to say thanks, everybody, for making that possible. As well as, here's another one. We did it for this debate between Kenny and Matt DeLahunty. If you guys remember that one, that was a juicy debate. That one happened about less than a year ago. As well as this one that you can see in the bottom right of your screen now, DebateCon Part 1. We raised $2,700 to help cover part of the venue costs. As this time, we found a cheaper venue. And that's really cool because we knew we were like, we don't really want to make this as affordable as possible. You could put it that way. And some people are like, I don't know. Is the venue going to be good enough? I think it's a quality venue. It's an economical venue. That's true. But the point is, we're like, hey, we want to make it so that it's affordable for people that, let's say, want to buy tickets. But not only that, you might be thinking, well, James, what are the expenses, though? If I watched this debate, did you actually spend any money to make it possible? Well, here are some of the ways that we are spending money to make this conference possible so that we can stream all of these debates live for the public. In particular, flights for the speakers. That's a big cost. The venue cost, that's another major cost. Hotel nights for the speakers, as well as the per diem or food for the speakers. So there are a lot of costs involved. And that's why we were saying, hey, we would love your support. We really do appreciate that. And I've got to tell you, my dear friends want to say, thanks for all of your support of Moderate Debate. If you are like, hey, maybe I'll think about that. Like, OK, it's interesting. I've got to tell you, it really is. And I am absolutely pumped for this epic conference coming up. So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. Do you remember, in chat, what date is this conference? Do you remember? I'll give you a hint. It's a Saturday. If you can put it in chat, I'm curious if you know. And what city, in particular, is it in? Do you guys remember? This is absolutely essential. Wilmar and Clarence Tompkins are right, as well as Rebecca and Delaney. It is 1119. So November 19th in Plano, Texas, this is going to be huge, you guys. I want to say thank you guys. We are excited about it. It's going to be epic. It's going to be monstrous. And it's going to be tremendous. So I want to say that, looking up here, something in the old live chat. I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. Seriously, this is a fun time. We really do appreciate you hanging out with us. Our vision at Moderated Debate is we want to provide a neutral platform so that everybody has their chance to make their case on a level playing field. So we want to say thank you guys for all of your support as we strive to make that possible. And I've got to tell you, my dear friends, we appreciate all of your guys' support. There are many ways that you guys support our channel. And 99% of you, I want to say thank you guys. You are super positive. You're super supportive. You guys are honestly super helpful. And I just, I appreciate it. Even if you're like, hey, James, I've never put in a dime. I've, let's see, let's say you're like, I've never put in a dime. And I've, let's say, you're like, I also haven't, what's the word I'm looking for, put it into the crowd fund or whatever. Even just being here, we hope you know that we really appreciate you being here. Because that makes this an eclectic community of different people from different walks of life. And so I want to say thank you guys for all of your support that way.  Hitting like really does help. You don't have to drop a dime for that. And that's something that, rather than telling you hit like, I want to say I will just sincerely ask you, like, hey, would you be willing to help boost us in the algorithm by hitting like, because we want to expand our vision across YouTube so that everybody has an opportunity for a neutral platform. Because we believe that YouTube deserves a better class of debate channel. And we're going to give it to them. So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. And Chris G says, if you give to the crowd fund, find me in Plano, Texas, and I'll give you a hug. Chris G will be at the conference. We're excited about that and we appreciate that. So thank you. We appreciate that in Plano, Texas, which is right next to Dallas, it is going to be amazing. Seriously, we are excited about this. I want to say thanks for all your help. But I see you in the old live chat. Thanks for being with us, D-E-R. It can mass in gaming says hello. Glad to have you with us. Okay, then 22. Okay, glad to have you. It says, hey James, where are all the videos recently uploaded and popular? Good question. So YouTube changed up their format for channels. You have to go to the tabs. Look at the tabs where usually it used to say like videos and you could just click and it'll just boom. It'll drop all the videos. Now you have to either click on videos where it's going to show you videos that were uploaded but that were never live streamed, or you can click on the live tab and that'll show you basically all of our debates. So you won't see all of our debates under the videos tab anymore because YouTube separated it where the videos tab used to be where you'd see all the videos that were uploaded plus all the live streams in one category. But then YouTube was like, now we're going to split it. We're going to have videos only be those that were uploaded and then live streams are just going to get their own tab called Vive. So thanks for that question. Yeah, that's weird. I don't know why YouTube did that. But yeah, it'll, you know. Dingley Bumbus says, Abut, James is Canadian or maybe just tired. I'm just tired. I should go. But I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. Seriously, it means more than you know. Living Room Speaker says, thanks for all you do. Really enjoy your channel. Thanks for that. That really means a lot. We appreciate your positivity. I love you guys. Thanks for everything. I'm excited to see you. We'll have our next debate is actually tomorrow night. So that'll be a fun one. And I hope you guys have a great rest of your night. We'll see you at the next one.


This is stock number 9906. We are here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Your new and used heavy-duty truck headquarters. Today we are checking out this super clean 2017 Ram 2500 crew cab short box. This truck has a 6.4 liter V8 Hemi motor. From this HD video you will be able to tell that this truck is extremely clean all the way around inside and out. Brilliant black crystal pearl is the color and we shoot all of our videos in 1080p so if you have HD capabilities on your computer tablet or smartphone device turn them on right now because it's like you're right here looking at the truck with me.  It comes with the 20 inch painted alloy rims and it has brand new Firestone HT LT28560R20 tires. We put these tires on in our safety inspection so they are brand new all the way around. No dents or dings on that front fender. This has the blackout package which gives you the blacked out grill, the blacked out headlight bezels and we also have the blacked out Ram logo on the front. I do apologize I'm having just a little problems with my gimbal and the wind right now so the video kind of goes wonky I apologize. Anyways passenger side fender no dents or dings on that and the passenger side rim no scuffs or scrapes on that either and that is a brand new tire on that side as well. As you go down this side of the truck you can see just how clean the body is how reflective and mirror like that paint is. We take these HD videos so if you are far away or even if you're close by and just cannot make the trip down you can still see the truck hear the truck and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at before you even get here. Cab is in nice condition as well and I didn't see any dents or dings down this side of the truck. Very nice condition this back rim is in nice shape as well and the back tires are brand new as well. Frame and underbody is an excellent condition as well and all the way underneath looks really good. As we come around to the back of the truck rear bumpers in really nice shape as well full towing package which includes receiver hitch four pin and seven pin wiring. The tailgate is in nice condition too you get the blacked out ram badge and the 4x4 logo on the back and this one does have a bed mat in it and the bed itself is in relatively nice shape no major dents or anything like that just a little bit of light duty usage backup sensors on the rear bumper as well and this box side is in really nice condition too no dents or dings on that and for full disclosure this back rim no scuffs or scrapes that tire is brand new as well and down this side of the truck very very clean it has the heated fold-out tow mirrors these manually fold in they also fold out like that and they are heated. Inside the big horn package gives you the gray cloth interior there are no rips there are no tears on the seats they are in really nice condition you get the power driver seat with lumbar factory floor mats throughout power windows power locks and power mirrors this one does have auto headlamps and as we hop inside the truck here you can see that this truck has 45,047 miles you get a digital speedometer outside temp and compass display instrument cluster is very nice and clean this one has the heated leather wrap steering wheel bluetooth and information center controls on the left cruise controls on the right the six-speed automatic transmission turned out four-wheel drive factory brake controller dual climate control and this one has the 8.4 touchscreen radio this is also where your backup camera shows up what's cool about this radio is that even though it has does not have nav you can get nav added to this radio for $595 see your sales professional for more information. AM FM and Sirius XM radio capabilities you can also do your heated seats and heated steering wheel buttons right there as well as your backup camera without actually putting it in reverse and then down here you have more heated steering wheel and seat buttons as well as the stability control and then your front and rear bumper sensors you can turn those off and on has a hundred foot 115 volt 150 watt plug-in and the passenger seat is very clean as well no rips or tears on that I don't think this truck's ever been smoked in smells very clean inside and the headliner is in nice condition as well no rips or tears and it does have a power sliding rear window you get 911 and assist in the mirrors those are features of the vehicle that you never have to pay for and are always there. We'll take a quick look at the back seats and then we'll check out under the hood back seats are just as clean as the front seats no rips or tears back here does have the latch child safety system these seats fold up for extra storage and it does have a load floor which goes down like so so if you got pets can put both sides down they got a nice flat place layer if you got muddy boots or tools put them on here and you're not going to get your seats all dirty then they just fold up like that there is storage underneath those seats we have a receiver hitch reducer in there as well and then underneath the carpeting here we have in-floor storage and those bins come out for easy cleaning and we'll take a quick look under the hood. I personally like to thank you for checking out the video today hopefully from this HD video you'll have been able to tell just how clean the body is and how clean this truck is all the way around inside and out so you can make a smart buying decision from the comfort of your own home under the hood we have the 6.4 liter Hemi V8 motor engine base very clean runs very smooth this truck has been fully safety and inspected by our service shop as a fresh oil and filter change all the fluids have been checked and topped off and this truck is 100% ready to go four brand new tires and she's all ready to check out more pictures of this vehicle or one of our other 450 new and used cars trucks SUVs mini vans Wranglers half tons three quarter tons one tons you name it we got it go to our website www.summitauto.com full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle on our lot from both lots Beaver Dam and Fond du Lac so go check us out there all at summitauto.com and if you want to check out more HD videos you can go to youtube.com slash summit auto remember to like subscribe and share on this vehicle and all the videos that you see there in fact in a second you will see a link to subscribe to our YouTube channel on your left a link to more heavy-duty truck videos like this one on your right if you have not been or website on the bottom link to this vehicle on our website click those check us out we really look forward helping with this super clean 2017 ram 2500 crew cab short box big horn blackout edition thanks again


Good President, the friend of all people of goodwill, a believer in the dignity and equality of all human beings, a fighter for justice, an apostle of peace, has been snatched from our midst by the bullets of an assassin. The voice is that of Chief Justice Earl Warren. Our nation is bereaved for because of his loss, but we can all be better Americans because John Fitzgerald Kennedy has passed our way. Though we shall never know how different the world might have been had fate permitted this blazing talent to live and labor longer at man's unfinished agenda for peace and progress for all. We're expressed in his own wits during his administration of barely a thousand days. I sometimes think we are too much impressed by the clamor of daily events. News paper headlines and the television screens give us a short view. They so flood us with the stop-press details of daily stories that we lose sight of one of the great movements of history. Yet it is the profound tendencies of history and not the passing excitement that will shape our future. Space is open to us now and our eagerness to share its meaning is not governed by the efforts of others. We go into space because whatever mankind must undertake, free man must fully share. We believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal before this decade is out of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth. No single space project in this period will be more impressive to mankind or more important for the long-range exploration of space and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish but in a very real sense it will not be one man going to the moon. It will be an entire nation for all of us must work to put him there. In a thousand days he articulated for the nation the challenges of the 1960s. To fulfill the role we cannot avoid on the world scene we must re-examine and revise our whole arsenal of tools. First we must strengthen our military tools. We are moving into a period of uncertain risk and great commitments in which both the military and diplomatic possibilities require a free world force so powerful as to make any aggression clearly futile. If we are to keep the peace we need an invulnerable missile force powerful enough to deter any aggressor from even threatening an attack that he would know could not destroy enough of our own forces to prevent his own destruction. As I said upon taking the oath of office only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed. Historians report that in 1914 with most of the world already plunged in war Prince Bülow the former German Chancellor said to the then Chancellor Bethman-Hallwig how did it all happen and Bethman-Hallwig replied if only one knew if this planet is ever ravaged by nuclear war if 300 million Americans Russians and Europeans are wiped out by a 60 minute nuclear exchange if the survivors of that devastation can then endure the fire poison chaos and catastrophe. I do not want one of those survivors to ask another how did it all happen and to receive the incredible reply if only one knew. To turn swords into plowshares John F. Kennedy launched the first step toward the control of arms bringing hope to an age of danger. Every man woman and child lives under a nuclear sword of Damocles hanging by the slenderest of threads capable of being cut at any moment by accident or miscalculation or by madness. The weapons of war must be abolished before they abolish us. Several representatives have met at the summit and at the brain. They have met in Washington and in Moscow in Geneva and at the United Nations. But too often these meetings have produced only darkness, discord or disillusion. Yesterday a shaft of light got into the darkness. Negotiations were concluded in Moscow on a treaty to ban all nuclear tests in the atmosphere in outer space and underwater. This treaty is not the millennium, but it is an important first step, a step towards peace, a step towards reason, a step away from war. It is much easier to make the speeches than to make the judgments the President had said. If you take the wrong course and on occasion I have, the President bears the responsibility quite rightly, so that finally it comes down that no matter how many advisers you have, frequently they are divided and the President must finally choose. So it was whenever crisis threatened the well-being of his nation. So it was in the fall of 1962 when it was learned that in Cuba, 90 miles from the shores of the United States, the Soviet Union had begun building missile emplacements. In this crisis both the nation and the man were tested for the will and the courage to defend freedom. The President ordered a military quarantine of Cuba and bluntly declared that the Russians must halt what he called this clandestine, reckless and provocative threat to world peace. The line had been drawn, a challenge that invoked the specter of a nuclear confrontation had been issued. This was the burden that John Kennedy accepted. This was the crushing responsibility that was his. It was so in Berlin and Vietnam. It was so in the Congo and in the United States. And his concern would range from the state of the nation's economy to the inviolable rights of man. All the time has come for this nation to fulfill its promise, the fires of frustration and discord are burning in every city, north and south. It is not enough to pin the blame on others, to say this is the problem of one section of the country or another. A great change is at hand and our task, our obligation is to make that revolution, that change, peaceful and constructive for all. Some of the most memorable moments occurred when he left the capital to tour his nation and the world. In Washington he would say, we talk to the United States, it's dangerous and it's opportunities in a somewhat removed way. But out here one can sense the power, the strength, the resources of this nation. Here too he could feel the response to his administration, the respect, the admiration, the affection that Americans felt for him. Sure of his way, here was tangible proof to him that where he led, the nation would follow. He forged the alliance for progress and he came to symbolize the dignity and liberty it promised to the people of this hemisphere. I shall return to Washington and tell the people of my country that you and they are bound together in one of the great adventures of human experience to make of our hemisphere a bright and shining light for all the world. And in the 1960s I believe that we can demonstrate so that all the world will want to follow our example that freedom and prosperity can move hand in hand. I express our thanks to you and I can tell you that the people of my country in good times and bad are committed to the progress of your people and this hemisphere. Gentlemen, Mr. President, one of the Kennedys does not need an interpreter so I'd like to have my wife say just a word to you. Who of the city of Berlin, John F. Kennedy, embodied the resonant determination of the United States to preserve the way of freedom. A citizen of Berlin and therefore as a free man I take pride in the words This as in every city he visited the people cheered him as they would his nation for the two were indivisible carried the image of youth, strength and bigger. Deuced myself to accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Paris and I've enjoyed it. That which came to be known as the Kennedy style took many forms often it was a quip and a smile. Folk a year ago today to take the inaugural and I'd like to paraphrase a couple of statements I made that day by saying that we observe tonight not a celebration of freedom but a victory of party for we have sworn to pay off the same party debt our forebears ran up nearly a year and three months ago. Our deficit will not be paid off in the next hundred days nor would be paid off in the first 1000 days nor in the life of this administration or perhaps even in our lifetime on this planet but let us begin remembering that generosity is not a sign of weakness and that ambassadors are always subject to Senate confirmation or if the Democratic Party cannot be helped by the many who are poor it cannot be saved by the few who are rich so let us begin might be said now that I have the best of both worlds a Harvard education and a Yale degree to when I was thinking about running for the United States Senate I went to the then senator Smathers and said George what do you think he said don't do it can't win bad year George what do you think this is it they need a young man your chance so I ran and lost 1660 I was wondering whether I ought to run in the West Virginia primary don't do it and actually the only time I really got nervous about the whole matter at Los Angeles was just before the balloting George came up and said I think it looks pretty good for you a thousand days and a thousand nights under John Fitzgerald Kennedy often became a center for cultural activity and that was part of the Kennedy style as he sought to achieve excellence in all that he undertook so did he admire and encourage talent and genius poet the artist the musician continues the quiet work of centuries building bridges of experience between people reminding man of the universality of his feelings and desires and desires and reminding him that the forces that unite are deeper than those that divide is incredibly broad range of interest John F. Kennedy shaped the path of his administration a passionate believer in the value of knowledge he launched a broad program for improving the educational opportunities of young Americans a witness to the tragedy of mental retardation he spurred the drive for research into its causes his conviction that individual Americans could carry abroad a new image of America produced the peace corner under John Fitzgerald Kennedy the office of president was the vortex of action and decision and from his goals and faith and ideals there came a new standard for his nation and you challenge all this in a thousand days ask every person if he's heard the story and tell it strong and clear if he has not that once there was a fleeting whisper glory for Camelot


The staging area for the urban search and rescue efforts have been set up here at the Crane Academy Day School parking lot. Now from here they take a look at the maps and follow a grid system to make sure that every single inch of this area has been checked and cleared. One week after the mudslide search and rescue efforts in Montecito have transitioned to search and recovery. These are the ground pounders of the Cal Fire inmate crews. Inmate crews working side by side with urban search and rescue teams. Right now we're going through and where all the debris went up on the against trees and stuff and rocks and we're digging everything out what we call strainers. A few days ago they were still working to save the lives of people who may have somehow survived the mud. Today they're looking for the remains of those who didn't. The mud came roaring in before sunup January 9th. Some residents of Montecito thought they were prepared. Well, we sandbagged and put waddles down and all of that prepared for a flood. That wasn't sufficient. Not by a long shot. If that resident looks familiar it may be because he's actor Jeff Bridges. What he first thought was the sound of heavy rain suddenly became a flashback to Northridge. The house started to shake like an earthquake and then I heard my wife screaming and coming out of the bedroom holding our dog. And plume here comes the mud and the debris. He and his wife and dog ran to the highest point of their house and waited. Waiting for this sound right here, these helicopters. That was their cue to run to the one dry spot in their front yard. Soon enough they came and a guy came down there on the line. His wife and dog went up first, then he went. What was the experience like being hoisted up by a helicopter? It reminded me of doing stunts in movies, you know. So just to confirm you won't need any other resources. Captain Kevin Fry and Regional Task Force A are working the area south of Highway 101. Plotting their progress on a map it's later updated with GPS data. Their mission is to search every building and mud pile for survivors or victims. But up to and including this day it was all about the rescues. We also had a lady and three of her young children and a couple of pets that we were able to evacuate. They were kind of stuck on an island if you will within the mud. Back across the highway another team roams its grid conducting secondary searches of homes ensuring no one was missed. They're also documenting vehicles that were swept away by the mud and left on neighbors properties. They found Jeff Bridges SUV several homes away. Nearby one of many excavators works Montecito to clear clogged creeks and terrain of boulders and debris deposited by the mudslide. Should more rain fall this will allow it to follow its natural path to the ocean. Out of all this devastation some are still able to find that silver lining in that dark cloud. It's really caused a lot of love to bloom. So many people just pulling together you know these first responders. One of my lines from one of my movies comes to mind. Starman he says you know what I love most about you humans. You are at your very best when things are worst. And that's certainly true. In Montecito on CBS I'm Sean Boyd.