The fourth batch of 306 Nigerians fleeing from the war in Ukraine has arrived at Namdi Aziki International Airport Abuja from Budapest, Hungary. The evacuees arrived via Airpeace Airlines in the early hours, welcoming the evacuees on behalf of the federal government, the director general of the national emergency management agency named Mustafa Ahmed. Ahmed said that President Mohammed Abu Hari had approved that $100 be given to each of them. Ahmed added that the money was meant to assist them with their transportation to their various locations.


Hello and welcome to today's webcast, Effective Marketing to Women with Linda McGregor. Today is all about uncovering the different biological instances where we see in men and women and today we're joined by someone fabulous to walk us all through it. First of all, just a quick little insight into the platform that you're viewing on today. If you wish to ask a question, please use the ask a question feature which is in a tab on the bottom of your screen. We will be doing a live Q&A session towards the end and also a recording of this event will actually be sent out within the next 48 hours, so keep a look out for that. Without any further ado, I really want to get straight into this topic today, so I'd like to welcome Linda. How are you, Linda? I'm good. Thank you. Excellent. So, first of all, can we just give everyone out there in virtual land a bit of an overview about all about Eve and then also what they can expect to hear from today's session? Sure. So, today we're going to talk about the topic of effective marketing to women. We're going to get past what we call thinking pink to really understanding if there are differences between talking to men and talking to women and how that will actually translate when you actually put that into marketing principles and activities. Great. And is that what you do on a daily basis? That's pretty much what we do. We spend a lot of time deep in psychology, sociology, and so on, which we love and I'll share some of that today, hopefully, as we go through. Great. Now, when we sent out the invitation to everyone and then also looking on your website as well, it seems that your approach really taps into the fact that men and women are biologically different. So, can you explain it? Are we? And is there any proof? Well, I think for those that might have been a little bit worried that this was going to be a bit of a sexist rant, this isn't actually about are men and women equal. This is actually about our men and women biologically the same. And I think all of us would say a woman and a man look different. Yes. But there's really two things that we deal with as fundamentals, as all about Eve. First of all, how we make decisions. And that's the same whether we're men or whether we're women. What it's all about is the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. I'll talk about that a little bit more as we go on. But then also, it is very much getting into what are the biological differences between males and females. And again, from a marketing point of view, how does that affect how we take in information, how we make decisions and how ultimately then we buy and bond with brands. OK, so what is the insight into how we make decisions ultimately? OK, so bit of neurology, 101. When we make decisions in our mind, there's the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Now, what's a bit shocking, I guess, to some of us as marketers is when we learn that in making decisions, the conscious mind makes only up to a maximum of 10 percent of the decision. So it may be the last 10 percent, but it can be as low as 2 percent. Now, when you think about all the stuff that we access and tend to use as insight information as marketers, it tends to be call work and also quant work, which is great, but it's only tapping that last 10 percent, the bit that we don't look at enough in our opinion. And we would say that all about Eve is the subconscious. So there sits all your beliefs, your attitudes, your value sets, all the subconscious, the unconscious behavior and activity that you have that is actually making up to 90, if not 95 percent of your actual decision for you before you've even really thought about it. Great, so that really plays into gender differences then? Absolutely, yes. So speaking of that, the fundamental four. Now, this is something I really want to get into. I really want to uncover the fundamental four and find out a little bit more about it. What's number one? Okay, there's four in total and the first one is values. And basically, they've done pretty much global research, couple of major scientific studies across the world, developed countries, undeveloped countries. And they looked at a number of things, but what we got involved in is all about Eve was what were the differences that were coming back from men versus women? And one of the very key areas was values and value sets. Now, as is always the case, lots of overlap. But what we were looking for is where there are distinct points of difference. And absolutely, there was. I'm going to say, and I'll say this to the audience, I tend to make things a bit black and white in a session like this because we're limited on time. So my apologies if I have any males or females going, that's not me. Yeah. We're talking about mass marketing. Okay, great. So when we actually look at value sets with women, lots are shared with men. But where it's different is women tend to be more about people in connections, more humanistic, if you want to call it that. And guys tend to be more about power and status. Now, even if you just look at those two things, you can see that they're quite distinctly different. So just to give an example, when you actually talk to both genders about, say, sociability, both find that equally important and they're equally involved in their lives. However, when you talk to men about sociability, it tends to actually be there that the differences come into play. So they'll talk about sociability much more in a work context. They'll talk much more about what we call hierarchy. So who do you know? Where do they work? What position do they have? And how do we potentially help each other get ahead? Now, when you talk to women about sociability, yes, there's a lot of that comes up. But what's different is women talk more about social what we call support. So yes, it's who I know, but actually it's more about who I know that actually has got my back, that I can trust, that will be honest with me and have my best interests at heart. So a bit different. Yeah, so how does that help us as marketers then? What should we be doing in that example or any other example that you've got? Well, I think if you just look at that as a basis, you kind of go, if guys are more about power and status, then the marketing values that your brand has needs to actually tap into that with a female audience. And this is the thing that I think quite often we miss as marketers or we don't play up to enough. If it's all about people and it's about the people around us being impactful on how we act, how we think, how we make decisions, then as brands, we need to be cognizant of that, that people and being seen to be human and authentic is actually really important to allowing your brand to connect with the female audience. Great. And just another question on that. You mentioned at the beginning that females are much more about that human element that touches sort of fairly thing. How does that work in today's environment where we're all online, it's virtual, social media? Has that impacted many brands or anything like that? Look, the interesting thing about most of this stuff and why we call it the fundamental for is no matter what generation you look at, so whether we're looking at Gen Ys or baby boomers, whatever, the fundamentals don't change in terms of how we connect, in terms of what affects us. How that might play itself out in terms of activity, for instance, especially online and digitally, is quite different. So quick example, empathy far more important to women.  We're a small company, we don't have a tech support team on site, so I had to go and get someone to fix the computer frame. Now, I do this stuff as a living. I know how to talk to men, talk to women. But I go in and I say to the guy, here's my laptop, not working. Now, I know at that point I should actually stop talking. Instead, I then carry on and fill in the gaps for him, give him some context. So I've had it for about four or five years. I tend to be pretty careful. I've got support in terms of virus check, all that sort of stuff. He sits there kind of looking a bit glazed at me. I then managed to stop myself and I expect then him to demonstrate empathy back. I've understood what you've said, that's important. I'll keep that in mind. Instead he says, great, that'll be 50 bucks. I'll do a diagnostic for you. I'll tell you then with the phone call what's wrong with it and we'll fix it. Great, thanks. Left the store. Now, I walked away, whether he'd actually demonstrated it or not, from his point of view, I walked away going, I just don't know, I trust that guy with my laptop. And that was nothing to do with his technical skills and everything to do with his interpersonal skills with me. Well, it makes sense. How are you supposed to know how technically savvy he is? It's just his communication with you. And yet a bloke would go, I've come here because he's tech savvy. It doesn't matter whether you can talk to me or not. Now that you've mentioned that, I can actually think of a few situations as well. So obviously it's all about the customer experience for females as well, which does play into marketing. So it really does involve the entire organization on different levels. Okay, so speaking of communication, I believe that is the second point. Great segue. That was totally unscripted. When we talk about communication, is it just the way we talk? Look, it's far broader than that, but it's easiest to demonstrate it. Talking about talking. Yes. So classic, and I think this was an email joke that was going around two, three years ago. In a standard day, guys will use about 8,000 words. Women will use about 20,000 words. Now, is that the chicks just like to talk a bit? Or is there something else going on? And the scientists will tell you there's something else going on. When guys talk to each other, it tends to be largely information exchange. So fairly short and to the point. When women have a conversation, we're not only exchanging information, we're actually also doing what they call twin tracking. And at the same time, we're either establishing or breaking bonds. So it's not just what you say, it's how you say it and what your non-verbal is actually saying to you at the same time. Okay, so if I'm having a conversation with someone else, it's about the other things that are happening in the background. Well, let me give you an example.  Now, it's almost impossible for a woman to make a comment to another woman like that without that woman then actually saying, oh, thank you. And then actually saying, actually it was a present for my 40th. Now, by doing that, you're actually starting, we don't know each other very well. You're starting to establish a bond. And what it's really about is commonality.  I like it too, because I have it. Probably there's other things where we actually like and therefore can trust each other. So you're looking for that ability to establish and connect with her and show that you have commonality. Very important for brands to be able to do that with her. Yeah, and that's why we're known for talking too much. Well, we're just doing a lot more. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I can see a lot of women doing that. And I've been in situations, whether it's in the work environment or at networking events or something. And I think that's a great icebreaker for women.  So if I'm a marketer, how can I tap into that? What can I do to make it work? I think it's a case of, it really comes down to insights. Do you really understand your target audience of females as opposed to using stereotypes? So what is it that's important to her and how can you actually do what we call surprise and delight her? How can you actually offer her something or communicate to her in a way that she goes, oh, I hadn't even thought about that. Actually, that's a really nice touch. That's very similar to doing that twin tracking and starting to establish the bond. So don't just give me a sell. Don't just give me the information. Rather give me something that you think is of interest to me and of use to me, going back to values. So it's more about you're my support network as opposed to you're actually trying to sell me something. Okay, great. Are there any companies out there that do this really well? Look, there's a number of them that do it well. The one that everyone would know about which actually covers both values and communication is obviously Dove. And we have actually got some stuff in your library for people to have a look at just to actually show a reference there. There's another one that's actually just popped into mind which I might add to your library afterwards. A local Australian company, SPC, who do canned fruits, who've actually just put a program into supermarkets recently. Where they've actually changed the labels on cans to actually reflect the producers that actually produce their product and done some digital and YouTube work with it. And really nice in terms of saying we understand as consumers and as shoppers you're not just interested in buying the product but you wanna know a bit about how it's produced and who's behind it. So it really starts to tap into that quite well. Yeah. So there's a couple of examples. Yeah, so we've got some examples in the resource library which is located at the bottom of your screen. So feel free to take a look at those towards the end but we'll also be sending links out to those examples, the videos exactly which will come out with the recording within 48 hours. Okay, so communication. Yes. We get that now. Now decision-making and thinking and we've spoken about this in the past and this is one of Linda's favorite ones. So this is fundamental number three. So explain. So thinking and decision-making. Probably my favorite because it's the one that's least seen.  You know, when we for instance say, I just, it just feels wrong in my gut. It's actually not in your gut. It's actually in your brain. And it's having an effect on your gut. It just sounds so much better. You sound much more intuitive when you say that. Don't you rather than say it's in my head. And that's a very female comment. It sounds more intuitive. So basic brain facts. It won't be a big biology lesson, I promise. Male brains and female brains are actually fundamentally different in terms of structure. Male brains are 10% larger. Sorry boys, doesn't mean you're 10% smarter. A female brain's just more concentrated. So they are the same. But where they're different is your basic biology of two hemispheres. One's more about rationality. One's more about emotionality, creativity. The thing that's fundamentally different between the two gender brains is actually the membrane between them. It's up to 40% thicker with a female brain. So what that means is a female brain has much more ability to actually cross-reference and use both sides of her brain when she's actually making decisions. Okay. Now from a marketing point of view, that's really important because what it means is in campaigns, you really need to think about are you covering facts, rationality, at the same time as actually covering emotionality opinions. You don't have to do both necessarily in one piece of marketing material, but across your campaign, the best way to help her through your decision-making is actually a balance of both. Whereas you don't have that need the same way with guys. So the psychologists and the neurologists will call it step thinking for males. Males tend to get rid of a lot of information to make it simpler to get from A to B quickly. Whereas in a female brain, we tend to do what they call joining the dots or web thinking. So it's give me a bunch of information. Good. That's actually not enough. I want to do due diligence and feel like I've really looked around and taken enough information on board. And then I'll actually look at making a decision. Okay. So impacts for marketers would be things like, in general, it will take women longer to make a decision if they haven't made it before, especially if they believe it's a very important decision, especially if it impacts those around them in terms of people. It also means in terms of steps that she goes through, it's much more easy for females to get locked into stage two of research and never quite make it to take action because she feels she hasn't done enough due diligence. Classic example on that would be women in super. Yep. You know, we keep thinking, I know this is really important, I need to get it organized, but I don't know enough to choose the right financial advisor or to choose the right policy. So as a result, we put off, we do nothing and therefore nothing actually happens. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts then on, you know, recently there's a lot of talk about nurturing people through the buy and cycle and the fact that the buy and cycle is changing, it's becoming longer and people aren't just going to be ready to buy one that wants to say, look at your website now. So even ourselves as an organization, we use the nurturing process throughout. Is that something that would appeal more to women? And if we are using that as a marketing tool, should we be including steps that are appealing to these four fundamentals? Look, I think whether you're marketing to men or women, there needs to be a sense of understanding how to support and move them through the decision-making. Nurturing, to all intents and purposes. I think the difference is to some extent, probably the demands of what qualifies as nurturing with women are probably higher back to what you mentioned earlier in terms of customer service. Women expect more of themselves, expect to give more, but as a result, they expect to get more. So therefore the nurturing with them tends to actually have, if you want to call it that, a higher standard and may take longer than I actually would with men. If you therefore think that through, then you'll do things differently. Again, a quick example, automotive. You get a situation where the male brain and the female brain, given the same information, will end up at a different stage in the decision-making process when they go into the showroom. He's ready to buy a car. She's still in research mode and actually wants to touch, feel, sit in the car, take a test drive, all that sort of thing. Interesting worrying statistic on that is on average 79% of guys who go to a showroom are offered test drives. 41% of women are offered test drives. And what's actually happening there, which is a sales and a marketing issue, is the sales guy is not picking up the cues I'm ready to buy from her because she's not. And therefore he's going, she's not interested and therefore wrongly diagnosing where she's at. In fact, if anything, she needs the test drive more than he does to move her to the take action stage. Okay, just on this decision-making, we had someone ask a pre-question before the event. And it's more around people within the B2B space because I personally can see how this would really, really work and play into people if you're selling B2C. But in B2B, where you're not necessarily targeting people based on their gender, is there any research to show that this works in this space? Well, I don't know who came up with that question, but that's a nice tricky one for me. Look, there's always research out there. This sort of stuff's been researched all the time, which is why, as well as call and quant, we get involved in all the scientific work. But I think the bottom line is this. We often think of companies as organizations as a thing. And actually, they're made up of people. So fundamentally, you're still marketing to men or women.  I think there's a smart way to do it, which is to say we're not sure whether we're talking to men or women, and therefore we'll follow a ground which allows us to do the right things with guys, short to the bullet points, but at the same time do the right thing by women, give them the options to get more information. So I think even B2B, that's the sort of thing you could be thinking about. How do you make sure you give people the short version, but give them access to the longer information in more detail? If they want it, yeah, because surely some genders would overlap. Oh, look, absolutely, great little fact. 10% of women have a more male-wide brain, and 15% of males have a more female-wide brain. Wow.  Very interesting. Speaking of asking questions, if you do have any questions, please send them through the chat feature. We'll get to those shortly. But just on what we're talking about, about thinking and decision-making, I believe you've got some information about OPSM. Ah, yes. So this sounds really interesting, so I can't wait. Look, really simple one. We talked earlier about, are there examples of brands doing it really well? And OPSM basically put out a product, they called Penny the Pirate, which quite simply was a storybook that parents could read at bedtimes to their kids. But it involved the kids, because the story was about a pirate, actually putting on an eye patch. Now, in reality, as they're actually reading the story with their parents, what in fact this really clever little book's doing is actually doing an eyesight test on them. So if you actually think that through and look at parents, mothers in particular, who go, I don't have the time or maybe the inclination to go into store for an eye test, I'm not sure if that might be traumatic for my child, so therefore, again, not really inclined to do that. This is a really easy way for them to check and at least get a top-line sense of if there's any issues there and therefore give them a better reason to actually do something about it. Very interesting. And that example is also in the resources poll as well. It is, it is. For anyone looking. Okay, so now I'm starting to see the difference as to what we spoke about at the beginning. Is it about getting insight? Or is it, what's it all about? What can we do moving forward? Look, insight is key. If you don't start by really understanding your female audience or your male audience, then you've actually not got enough to work with. What ends up happening is you end up working with stereotypes. And if you speak to psychologists, they'll basically say to you, stereotypes are useful, but they're cognitive shortcuts. So what they do is they allow us to deal with the world and do things quicker and deal with the amount of information we've got. Great, but as marketers, you actually don't want to be generalistic. You actually want to be detailed and absolutely on the money. So insights will get you away from poor stereotypes into very good understanding. So insights are great, but you can have great insights and totally screw up what you're doing. So it's what we call actionable intelligence. What you do with your insights is equally as important. An old kind of sailing adage is, if you're sailing along and you're one degree kind of off your course, that's fine if you're sailing say five kilometers, but if you're sailing 200 kilometers, that one degree takes you further and further and further away from your course. Our view is it's exactly the same with marketing. You can get your insights, develop a strategy, but then how you execute it in terms of how your marketing campaign looks, how your materials are actually done, how they're communicated, all of that needs to stick to the strategy in its execution. Okay, interesting. We have a question from Sandra here. So Sandra's just started with a new organization and they currently don't segment based on gender. Hello Sandra. So if you do come into an organization and you don't have those demographics to work with, how do you do that? Do you just send an email out saying, tell us what your gender is? What's the best way to do that? Do you have to go through one by one and filter? Do you think, I think what Sandra's trying to say is, do you think that people, if they knew that you were marketing to them based on gender would be offended? And how do you do it? Yeah. Okay, let me pick the, would they be offended question first? Because that's one that comes up a lot. I think it's only offensive if you're patronizing to them. If someone says, could I ask you a few questions about yourself so I can give you better service? Very few people are gonna go, no, get lost. I don't want better service. I think the problem though with profiling people, especially from a gender point of view, has come about because of what we just talked about, bad stereotyping. Yes. And there's an interesting thing there. We talk about overt versus covert marketing. Okay. A lot of what we classify as don't think pink or thinking pink is covert marketing.  You've got boobs. I know all about you therefore.  Oh, well, I know it's all about your kids. And that's kind of where it stops. And she of course goes, well, I'm a bit more than just a mom. And so therefore you get the barrier goes up.   Yeah. And I think that's the sort of thing that you then get a customer or a consumer reaction to where she goes, you know what? I don't know what it is that they do, but God, they just get me. They just get it. And that's really what profiling is all about, especially from a gender point of view. And you know, given, and we touched on the fundamental four, given that that actually looks to understand basic differences in order to provide better connection, better communication, then it really is ultimately about saying, we want to give you a better fit to what your needs are. Okay, great. And also a question from Sanjay. So as women do more research, doesn't mean that women can be converted into loyal customers? Good question. Long answer, so I'll make it a shorter one. So women tend to do more research because of the way that their brain actually functions. So she needs to feel she's actually gone through and done, as I said, due diligence. Classic examples, statistics will tell you if a guy goes out to buy a pair of black jeans, it will take him about 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know if you wanna guess, it takes a woman two and a half hours on average. Now statistically that's very significant, that's very different. And what that's about is what we call perfect answer. So guys will tend to go out, maybe look for say five things in a pair of jeans, but when they actually start looking subconsciously, probably two or three of these five things will drop off the radar. And they'll go, actually, I'm really happy that they're a good price, good brand, I'm done, I'm outta here on to the next task. Women will tend to go in maybe with the same five things, have a look around and the way our brains work means that we do more research to feel that we've done the right diligence. So we'll probably get from five things to seven things subconsciously that we need from a brand or from a product, which means we therefore go around more stores, we do more research and so on. So women tend to take longer in their research for that reason. Now, to your question about does that make them more loyal? The answer to that is it depends.   The problem most of the time is most brands don't deliver all five, they deliver on four. Therefore you're the best perfect answer at this point in time. Then along comes a new pair of jeans and all of a sudden they deliver five out of five when you're actually just delivering four out of five. And therefore the loyalty's lost. So the short version of the answer is she will be really loyal if you give her everything she's looking for. If you're not, and that's where research and understanding her comes into play, if you're not delivering on everything to give her a perfect answer, less likely to be loyal. Okay, definitely makes sense. I can relate to that at least. And look, we see it all the time in FMCG, grocery shopping. So it's very easy for her to switch out of one brand into another one. There's very little kind of cost to it and the previous brand's probably already been consumed. It's more difficult as the price goes up because the reality is that product probably lasts. So even a pair of jeans, she's probably not likely to be seen as disloyal until she's ready for another pair of jeans and then she might start looking at other brands.  Does any of this influence a decision-making whatsoever? Look, without any doubt whatsoever. In the same way as you can't lump all mums together, you can't lump all women together. I think though, what we try and do in order to help our clients is say, let's actually go through the levels. So the fundamental four affect all women. How it then actually plays out in terms of behavior though, that can actually change. So when you actually talk to, for instance, by behavioral psychologists and sociologists, they will talk about the whole balance between nature versus nurture. So our fundamental four looks at nature. So what's there in our biology that makes us want to do things. Then you actually start putting nurture. So are you a single woman? Are you a career woman? Are you married with kids? That then actually becomes nurture insofar as the environment in which she's operating. And that actually impacts what her priorities are. Which interestingly is what we call fundamental four, which is managing her world. How those priorities actually changes and shapes what's actually important to her. And just to reply to Anna's question, thinking and decision-making are separate fundamentals? No, they're one and the same. So there's a three. So there's four. Number one is values. Number two is communication. Number three is thinking and decision-making. And number four, which I just snuck in there for you, is managing her world. Managing her world. So let's talk a little bit more about that. It's as simple as this. Whether we're men or women, we have priorities and activities to juggle in our lives. We're all busy. I laugh quite often when I see marketing briefs come in that an insight is women are time-poor. That's not an insight. That's a reality of her life. What is an insight is why she's time-poor and why she believes she's more time-poor, for instance, than a man might be. And that's down to a couple of things. If you think about what we talked about with Perfect Answer, she actually wants more and does more research before she actually makes a decision. And she wants to make a perfect decision rather than just a good decision. So therefore, that takes up more time. Add to that, women tend to be the social organizers in the human race. So we tend to, because of values, pool families together, remember birthdays, all that sort of stuff. Just put these factors together and you can see why women are busier and therefore more time-poor than men are. But the interesting thing about it, which we often forget about, is it's actually, albeit subconscious, a choice that we make as women. And therefore, telling women as an insight, I know you're time-poor. It's like, yeah, hook her off. I know I'm time-poor. Tell me what you can do to help me about it. And that's really what Fundamental Four is all about. How does she manage her world? How does she juggle things? And what are the challenges that you can make to yourself as a brand to say, I can actually help her shortcut, some of, for instance, her decision-making by giving her information on people like herself. And the likes of Amazon does this really well. So if you bought this book, then you might also like this, this, this. And they're very much doing what we call people-like-me profiling. So other people like you that have a similar reading profile have also liked this.  You know, I've just read this book, it's fantastic. Oh, you like that? I read it too. And the book that I've read after that was XYZ. Gotta get it, it's fantastic. That's actually about how women help each other and manage how to juggle their worlds and make decisions faster and easier. So I'll say then as marketers, it's all about letting women know that you understand their struggles, what they're thinking, how they make these decisions and not necessarily telling them, like you said, so an email saying, I know what you're going through, but more about providing them solutions and customer experiences that ultimately leads to that word of mouth marketing down the track.   It's that instant reaction. So, and that's actually something where if you say that to a guy, he'll go, okay, prove it. Whereas a woman will go, no, you don't. And the hands sort of say all the barriers go up.  You want barriers down. You don't know me, that thing. I can't really do it that well, I know. I think there's a song in so long. Okay, so please type the rest of your questions if you have any because we're about to sum up. And also please complete the survey which is located in the bottom tab as well. And also in there, you can opt in to receive Linda's newsletter which comes every fortnight, every second Thursday, I believe. Indeed. Full of insights and tips. Can we try? Yeah. So let's sum up. We're getting to the end now. Let's, if I'm out there and I'm listening today, what are some takeaways? What would you like me to walk away with? Well, hopefully in chatting this through, we've got you to think about less thinking pink and stereotypes and more about genuinely looking for insights to understand your target audience as females. We've got you to think that if I've got qual and quant research, that's great. And it gives me the 10% of conscious decision making. But what have I got around psychology, sociology, neurology to actually help me with that. And the fundamental four that we've flicked you through today will actually help you even if you just use those four things as a checklist, that will give you the right sorts of questions and leads to actually be asking yourself. So there's first and foremost, ask the right questions, get the right insights, both subconscious as well as conscious. Then we do a process all about Eve called biology, which is B-U-Y-O ology. Oh, biology. As opposed to bio ology. See what you did there. We try and be a little bit too smart sometimes. So biology is all about saying, how do we make sure then that understanding the consumer as a female, we therefore know what her needs are, what her drivers are. And as a brand, we understand what the brand offers. And then we actually look at how the two of them fit. Okay. And the question you have to ask yourself as marketers, and it's basically marketing 101, but exaggerated for women. Do I have a force fit where I'm trying to make the shoe fit on our foot, even if it doesn't fit? Or is it a perfect fit where you put the shoe on our foot and she goes, that shoe was so made for me. I love it. So that's really a big thing. Think about what we call biology. Have you understood what the consumer needs are? Have you understood what your brand offer is? And have you made sure that the bridge that you're creating through communication materials is actually making a perfect fit between the two? If for one second the answer isn't yes, you need to actually do a rethink, probably of your brand offer, and whether you're actually targeting the right audience. Okay, great. And obviously every organization's going to be different, different products, different values, different everything, and we could sit here and talk all day about this, but I know you've got something to do. Well, as you can tell, I can. So how can people find out more? Where can they go? What's your site offer? Well, look, you can jump on, quick plug, the All About Eve site, which is all about eve.com.au. And there's a whole load of stuff which really kind of adds to and expands what we've talked about today. There's a whole load of tools on the site there, things like two years worth of our newsletter, which actually picks up a whole load of different topics from great examples of marketing to women through to pieces of psychology and how to apply them. So you can actually go into that as a whole backdrop. Or in fact, you can either through the survey, but I believe you guys are gonna do, you can tick the right box and get onto the All About Eve EDM, which goes on newsletter, which goes out for now. Excellent. Well, that brings us to the end. So thank you so much, Linda. It's been amazing speaking with you. I've learned a lot, so I hope everyone out there has too. Thank you everyone for joining and for giving up some time on your Tuesday. And we hope to see you at future Business Skills events. Thanks a lot and enjoy the rest of your day.


Enjoy the presentation about preserving arcade games, basically a talk about the future of the past, I would say. So enjoy and please give a warm welcome to Arge Albertini. Hey, does it work? Can you hear? Yeah, it's okay. So thanks for coming, all of you, and hi to the streamers. And welcome to my talk, so preserving arcade games. So I present this because gaming is cool, retro gaming is trendy, and more importantly, arcade games are fun, so I made a really funny picture. But this is not very stylish. That's a better way to speak about arcade games, more than bullet points and memes. So not everybody understands hardware, not everybody understands software, but everybody understands that it's a game. It's a good one. That's the cool part with emulation, you do some hacking, but it brings games to everybody. Okay, today I'll speak about arcade games, those games where you had to put a coin to play with in a bar or in an arcade room. This money would go only to the operator, not to the actual manufacturer. So to be successful, those games had to be awesome, different in a way or another. And the key for that was that this was the whole game, the screen, the controls, the cabinets, the electronics, the software, everything was usually controlled by the original designer. And it was really dedicated, so here you have the controls, four directions, no buttons, no diagonals, unlike a console that is more or less ready with a controller to do everything, all kinds of games. Arcade games were dedicated. Let's look at it in history. This is Night Driver from 76. It's based on the first racing game, which is a German game, Nürburgring, and it was made of 28 PCBs. The first racing game was made of 28 PCBs in 1975. As far as I know, it was not preserved. Berserk was one of the first games with digitized speech. It has 16 words of vocabulary, at the time it cost $1,000 per word to be digitized. So just to be awesome, and sound was really important arcade room, so it was attracting people who didn't even see the game, but like, oh, what's that sound coming for? And very nice for you. They made a German version, and the story doesn't say if German words are more expensive to be digitized, because they tend to be longer. Battlezone was the first FPS in 1980, and it was originally designed to be a military trainer. So it was not even thought to be a game. Dragon Slayer was at the time where games you were like four colors and hard disk were 10 megabytes was using the very recent technology laser disk base. It was one year old, so it was really groundbreaking in the hardware it was using. Outrun had a special dedicated chip set for the sprites, and it was using a secondary CPU only to draw the roads. The CPU was 10 megahertz. Both CPUs were 10 megahertz, while Namiga only has one CPU of 7 megahertz. So imagine like, oh, let's put an extra chip for the sprites, a chip set for the sprites, and an extra CPU for the roads just to make a groundbreaking game. Hard driving is way before GPU even existed, and hard driving was crazy hardware. Basically the original hard driving was three PCBs, the sequel was four PCBs, and then they made this extreme version made of triple screen, which was emulated last month. And it's six PCBs, four CPUs, nine DSPs. And they even made it possible to add up to up to 25 monitors in 1991. That gives you an idea of how crazy the hardware of arcade games could be. And when the electronic was not crazy, then the cabinets had something unusual like all kinds of sport. And this is a Korean game of us poking. And here you have a, yeah, and this is the controller and a hand with the finger extended. Yeah, whatever. Afterburner was really awesome. This sequel was not so bad. Afterburner had the moving seats, the sequel, well, they made it something even crazier, Glock. And this is the R360 where it could rotate the player even upside down or all degrees. Or sometimes it was not the seat, but the screen that was awesome. So here you have some half almost half spherical screen where you cannot see everything at once. Or here double widescreen for four players. So that's like two players, two widescreen LCDs put together. And they even did that at the time of CRT screens with using mirrors so that you had a triple screen. Just with the mirror so that there is no limits between the screens. Just to have an extra view for multiplayer action.  And as soon as the electronic was not too crazy, then basically a game would have, would end up with bootleg. Like bootlegs appear, the first bootleg in MAME is like in 77.  So here are some games that ended up having a bit more than usual creative bootlegs. So for example, Metal Slug 3, the bootleg is called Metal Slug 6. Or Space Invader, the bootleg is called Darth Vader, why not. And yeah, King of Fighter 2001 becomes a crouching tiger hidden dragon 2003 Superplus. So usually bootlegs were just defeating the protection, duplicating the hardware, but sometimes they were a bit more creative. Sometimes they would even get a step further. You probably didn't hear about this game, Dragon Ball. It looks nice, but it's actually just a graphic and sound hack of Ninja Gaiden. Or here, this is Snobros 3 at the time of the World Cup, but it's actually just a hack of Snobros 1. And here a bubble, bubble with a girl, so yeah, I don't understand. Okay, so because the designers had controls over everything, then with crazy piracy came crazy protections. This one is still not completely defeated now in 2014. This one is interesting. So it's an order chip, a bit like the Nintendo NES chip, protection chip, and it was implementing a virtual CPU in hardware in 1982. So when you have someone complaining, a virtual machine, yeah, this is a virtual machine in hardware in 1992 for the protection. And typically, the most advanced protections were when the protection was deeply integrated into the game mechanics. So basically, for example, Dodon Pachi has a dedicated CPU for the protection, and if it's absent, the game is running, but the enemies don't shoot. If in Super Hang-On, if the protected CPU is absent, then the game works, the roads are straight. And typical of Konami, the collision is handled by the protection, so here the game is working, and without the protection you cannot be hit, and you cannot hit the enemies and they cannot hit you. And they went one step further to create, and they added what's called suicide batteries. So basically, the protection data was on a battery-powered ram. The moment the battery dies, the protection is out, and the game is unplayable for good. And they even made it so paranoid that sometimes if the chip detects something is going wrong, it kills its own memory on purpose. So that's where you see that preservation is important, because even if you bought the hardware, you are not allowed to open it without voiding the guarantee. Now technical support is gone for those games for a long time, and those games will end up being lost, even if it was their best version ever. So that's a problem, because here you have a battery that leaked and killed the PCB, and you're not supposed to open and touch the hardware, but on the other hand, all the copies of the game are going to die, even if you bought them at an expensive price usually. And now if you actually hack the protection and get the game preserved, then you have those new generation ports that are based on emulation and on the hacking that was made to remove the protection, to kill the protection. So just as a summary for this first part, arcade games were awesome, but usually running on dedicated hardware, they were heavily pirated, they were heavily protected as a consequence, and they were so protected that it made them vulnerable, not in terms of exploitation, but like vulnerable to time, because the game died on purpose for the sake of their protection. So now let's look at the hardware in particular. The CPS-1 Capcom Play System, known mostly for this. The original Street Fighter 2 in 1991. So the Street Fighter 2, this Champion Edition with the same characters and the boss playable, Hyper Turbo, whatever, and some shooters, 1941. This one is interesting because it's a B2A newer Japanese mercenary. The sequel, it's a tank with three legs, whatever.  This is supposed to be the Duma or something, attack China, and some more peaceful games. CPS-1 was really good. A particular notice for this one, you probably don't know about this. It was just emulated and preserved six months ago, so you probably don't know about it. It looks like Street Fighter 2, but it's not really Street Fighter 2. It's based on Street Fighter 2, it's kind of similar, it's actually a more hitting game based on Street Fighter 2. It's extremely rare, and it was preserved and emulated for good six months ago. CPS-1 was protected, but it was completely hacked. Street Fighter 2 hacks were very widespread, or this is a Final Fight hack. In the original version, you have three players in the bootleg, they even let you control more characters, which is nice, even more options than the original version. This is a CPS-1 game, so with three PCBs, and this is a bootleg, so completely different hardware. Even the manufacturer wouldn't get any money from the hardware itself. It's not just about defeating the protection, it's about making physical copy of an arcade game. Even the last version of the CPS-1 had a suicide battery and a custom chip with integrated encryption, so everything that should be right. But data was encrypted with code, and the algorithm was weak. So basically, it was possible to determine the encryption, and all those games had their bootlegs, even though it had a suicide battery and everything that sounded perfectly at the most advanced protection at the time. So, CPS-1, it was great. It was protected like suicide battery and everything, but it was completely hacked. The answer from Capcom for that was the CPS-2. It gives you an idea of the size. It's not related, just to give you an idea of the size. And the CPS-2, well, started in 1993 with this. So, from the original Super Street Fighter 2 to the Hyper Street Fighter 2, ten years later, not very original, but that's Capcom. So, the Super Street Fighter, the Super Turbo, the Hyper version with different modes of characters, the Alpha Series 1, 2, and 3, with the 2 versus 1 player mode, which was really good. The Parody, which I really like, Pocket Fighter. It's quite crazy. And then, the Crossovers with Marvel and X-Men. X-Men versus Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes. This is a special character based on the Japanese comedian, the very good Marvel versus Capcom. And then, the Darkstalker series, 1, 2, 3. Crazy stuff, really great games. Some action games. The very good Alien versus Predator. The Jens and the Ruggans. And some shooters, because we love shooters. 1944. Yamahou, Shiga Wing, Matrix. And the best, maybe for the last, Pro Gear. And that's stage two. And that's stage two of the first pass. It's harder the second pass. And some more peaceful games. Pang, Puzzle Loop, Puzzle Fighter. Played by Jean-Philippe Omasso here. So, CPS2 was really, really good. CPS2 was clearly the good successor of CPS1. So, you have the timeline of CPS1, CPS2.  So, CPS2 was probably the last successful hardware made by Capcom. CPS2 was really good. Very good games. And this is all the CPS2 hacks that existed. Bootlegs, region swap, whatever. Nothing, absolutely nothing. They were so desperate that they couldn't hack the CPS2 version. Of the game that they just took the Mega Drive version and they turned it into Arcade version. And even made a typo for the insert coin message. So, let's look a bit at the hardware. So, CPS2 is made of a sandwich of two PCBs. And one PCB has the game and the protection together. So, basically this is the game PCB. And everything that is in green is unencrypted. So, no problem. The graphics and sound were a bit like the CPS1, no problem. And code and data are together. Data is not encrypted, code is encrypted and the decryption is done on the fly inside the CPU and the decryption key is stored on the SRAM battery, that is battery powered. So, usually when you say that people understand it wrong and they think, okay let's just trick the CPU into thinking that code is data and let's just get code decrypted. But this is done at CPU level, at the moment to fetch memory. And the pin to control that behavior was not accessible from the outside of the package of CPU plus decryption. So, there is a reason it wasn't decrypted. Decryption was done on the fly for execution and when you read memory it comes in clear. So, basically you patch some opcodes blindly, you get a black screen of it crashed, you have no idea what happened and back to zero. Even better, even so all the opcodes are encrypted and even the initial stack pointer and PC are encrypted. So, you don't know where execution start, actual CPU was even unknown at the time. So, basically, CPS2 was awesome, it was really well protected and it was absolutely unscathed for like six years. And even if it was, CPS1 was completely hacked, everybody wanted CPS2 emulated and absolutely nothing for six years. So, luckily, Capcom is going to do a mistake because of this thing. NeoGeo is known for the Fatal Fury series or for many games but including the Art of Fighting, Samurai Showdown, King of Fighter, Middle Slug. NeoGeo was awesome, a lot of good games. NeoGeo was open to third parties. So, for example, Middle Slug was not done by SNK originally. So, there were some games that were quite crap but still it was a lot of games, a very long success like many years and even more importantly, a success in arcade but also as an expensive console. And also, the hardware was a bit similar to CPS2, the games were a bit similar to CPS2. So, Capcom tried the same thing and they managed, they released something that they managed to make the NeoGeo looks cheap and small. The CPSChanger was a console version but it was much too expensive and the games were really old because the CPSChanger games were actually the CPS1 games that were already very old. While the NeoGeo was getting games that were released in arcades a few weeks before. So, CPSChanger was a commercial failure and as a last try, they just backported one of the CPS2 games on the CPSChanger. So, they took one CPS2 game that is encrypted and they put it on the CPSChanger system so they had to downgrade the audio system but it's more or less the same system. But this one is encrypted, this one is not. So, you see it coming, right? What happened that day? Nothing. For some reason, I mean, the protection is not that easy but for some reason even after that was out, nothing happened. The Dragon was still undefeated and to defeat Dragon, you need a team of heroes. So, basically, so here start the stories. So, one guy called Razula started analyzing the dumps of this game. So, it was an encrypted 68,000 code and just made assumptions, just exploring the disaster itself. And then, luckily, he could buy the Japanese version, the exact version of this game in a working state so with the battery, the system working and the protection alive. Razula needed help on the PC side. So, I worked with him. Razula was on the front end, I was on the back end helping him with software that when we needed to communicate together. So, the first breakthrough of Razula was to enable the debugger that was integrated in that game. So, until now, like for six years, there was absolutely no hack of CPS2 and then eventually he enabled the integrated debugger which was an awesome advantage because suddenly we were not blind anymore. We had no idea about the decryption. We had no idea about the keys, whatever, but at least suddenly we could see the registers modifying blindly and get some progress. Then, so that was, we started this, it was in November 1999. So, yeah, like 15 years ago. Oh, I'm old. The second breakthrough was to accidentally find that some higher memory range were not using encryption for unknown reasons. So, that's a big Facebook from for Capcom. Because they had a working, because they had a working decryption that was undefeated for many years and yet for some unknown reasons it was not used by any game. They just disabled this encryption on some memory ranges. So, then that was in spring 2000, I think. Then we were enabled to have shellcode execution on a CPS2.  We didn't know what yet. And we were theoretically unable to get code decrypted. Luckily, another mistake of Capcom is that one of the addressing mode of the 68,000 is relative to the PC. So, basically in modern terms, relative to EIP. And at bus level that means you read code, you read data, but relative to PC, which means you just read it as code. So, you read data and it's decrypted on the fly. Big mistake by Capcom. We are in the specs. But at a low level, this is what happens. And this is a big mistake by Capcom because Sega knew about it and in their own protected hardware they prevented that to happen. So, suddenly we had the ability to decrypt one word at a time of CPS2. So, I flew and visited Raz for the first time and Raz was turning on the switch of the CPS2 displaying one word on the screen. I was writing down Excel table, flipping of the switch, going to the next and then writing down and so on. And we believed, we thought, because that was the first known description of CPS2, we thought, okay, we are going to defeat that in no time. Well, we were wrong. But at least we were trying. This is a shorter version of my talk. So, of course in the meantime over those years we did extra research and sub-projects related, you know, like sub-quest in RPG to keep the faith, to keep your mind fresh, etc. But sometimes we didn't know if we were building in the right direction by looking these upcodes on the screen. But still it was making things progress. But at least we had some data decryption, some code decryption, but we couldn't exploit it yet. The second, the next mistake of Capcom was that in the decrypted version of Street Fighter Zero they actually let this weird upcode, they left it. And this weird upcode is actually what keeps the execution running. It's the watchdog key. And if it's executed regularly, then the decryption stays alive. So, suddenly we went from unlimited reshort the execution time to unlimited decryption time. That was in December 2000. So, then we could automate decryption without dumping.  This is what? This is four. I'll give you, this is a hint. So, we just saw that there were unused ports on the CPS2 that are the same voltage as a joystick port on the PC. So, the CPS2 was sending data to the joystick port. So, that was Raz's program sending data to the joystick port. My program was getting bits, three bits at a time including checksum and parity, not more than 30 times a second because joystick port is unreliable at this speed. Then my program would check the checksum and update the version of the counter inside the ROM image that was monitored by his EEPROM emulator that was updating the counter on the fly on the CPS2 and then we would send the next byte this way. That's a bit crazy but it worked. So, we ended up having the first decrypted dump of CPS2 at the end of 2000 for the first time. CPS2 decrypted and emulated. So, that was the first screens. That made the news. The news got it wrong as usual. The encryption was not smashed. We just asked nicely for the CPS2 to decrypt itself and send the information to joystick port. But still, that was really good because at least emulation, CPS2 preservation and emulation became a reality. So, now people could send us their PCBs, their games in working states and we could end up dumping them and getting them preserved. Of course, not really game over for CPS2 because we needed the game in working states. The encryption was still absolutely unknown but still a very good progress. In the meantime, now people were sending us the games and so on. The recent NeoGeo games also had protections that were very low. With the same joystick dumping abilities, we got a decrypted dump quickly. But this time, the algorithm was weak and we could get the game decrypted and the protection defeated for these NeoGeo games. Another important thing is that now we got decryption not defeated but we could decrypt the game, preserve the game, but that wouldn't resurrect the hardware. People didn't care about emulation but they had a dead hardware at home. They didn't know what to do with it and especially there were plenty of rumors about how a CPS2 really dies. So, someone actually sent a CPS2 in a working state to us to be sacrificed, to be killed the correct way so that he could experiment on the way it would really die and what could be possible with the correctly dead CPS2. I mean, just with the protection removed by the battery being cut. And the problem was that if you just decrypt the code and put it back on the hardware, it doesn't work. Capcom didn't want people to reuse the dead hardware without their permission and without them collecting extra money because that's what happened with the protected CPS1. Then Razula did this, here the battery is missing and the game is still booting. The trick was that actually the internal registers for video and audio were changed, so basically the game was not displaying and not doing anything and not doing any sound but the game was actually running when it was correctly dead. So the good thing was that in order to resurrect a CPS2 you had to determine exactly what is code and data, decrypt code in place, put it back on the ROM and then modify all the values of these registers and make sure these ranges of memory are not cleared. So then that would make a CPS2 that never dies because it doesn't need a battery anymore. He also made a universal ROM that people could just burn on the EEPROM and test if their hardware had a chance of resurrecting or if it was dead for another reason which was really cool and also he made versions of CPS2 games that would never die following this process. So then people could just cut their battery and have a game that will never die and never take care of the battery leaking and everything. Capcom CPS2 was preserved in a hardware state. That enabled bootlegs so here instead of MegaMan you have Gigaman that's not very nice and here the ROMs have been replaced by other components. Some bootlegs are a bit better extra more to hook the controls. It's all in one so basically you have one game a secret menu and you have basically all the games running on the actual hardware. Actually Darksoft which I will introduce later is actually making a new CPS2 all in one. So if you're interested you have one CPS2 and you want to play all the original CPS2 games with one version of the hardware he's doing that again. He's making a bootleg and to preserve all the games in their original state with just one physical copy of the hardware. We also had this little problem this is Alien vs Predator Capcom had lost the license the IP rights for this game shortly after the release of this game so it was never ported to any hardware and then this game happened they don't seem to have anything and just for that reason because IP don't care about what the actual game is but just about the name we had a nice take down letter from a lawyer because we were making this game playable I mean we didn't provide the game but just we made it possible to be playable and one lawyer had too much time and just send us a letter for this one. No big deal the hosting was cut instantly and so on but so not a problem with friends and not. So yeah just an interaction with lawyers is always to remind you it's real stuff it's real life stuff but we couldn't get everything decrypted it would take us 2,000 years 200 years to get all the values of CPS2 decrypted and if you cannot defeat your enemy then you call your friends to give them a good beating and I don't know who's I call him the Captain America of emulation because he analyze hardware he documents hardware he creates his own device to defeat the protections and sometimes he even makes the emulator.  So what took would take us 200 years to dump all the 8 gigabytes of all the combinations of the encryption took him 17 hours. So he did the complete 8 gigabytes dump for two games. I received a lot of CDs that was CDs at the time containing all this data that looked completely random that couldn't compress at all. I had no idea. We needed someone else to continue again and this is where Andreas Naive and Nicolas Samaria started playing the role into CPS2 and they basically they started making assumptions of the structure encryption algorithm. It was a custom but strong. I mean strong depends on everybody's interpretation but yeah strong enough to resist six years of emulation. So it was a Faisal network and they designed some attacks and they eventually reduced the dumps to 64 bit key. So they got the algorithm and now they got the key and with all the decrypted dumps that were already that we had already made then not only the decrypted dump doesn't need to be there because the algorithm is known and the key is known but it also worked for all the versions the different versions of the game the same game. The thing is this game Ultimate Ecology is a Japanese version of a game that was common in European version but very rare in Japanese version and the European version was already dumped and decrypted and then the key was extracted and that game was emulated that was really good because now all the possible clones and sub versions of these games just needed one decrypted dump get determined in the key all the same version of the game decrypted that was really good that was a huge progress and the last nail on the coffin was for that game because this is a CPS1 version and this CPS2 version is like extremely rare I only heard about one physical version of that game and the game the owner of this game would of course never send it because it's an incredibly rare collector but he did an encrypted dump and the last attack on CPS2 decryption was done by David Haywood and basically with just an encrypted dump he could do an attack that would determine the key so now and also the games ended up being emulated and preserved only with the decrypted dump so now even a CPS2 that had its battery dead as long as the program ROMs are still encrypted but valid then the key could be determined and the game could be preserved that was the last step to defeat completely the CPS2 protection so as a conclusion I don't know if I still have some time I don't know anyway I have almost twice as much as bonus as the talk itself don't worry so the mistakes of Capcom was that first to provide an encrypted version of the same game the game the original encrypted game still has its Z-Bugger enabled present while the original CPS2 game didn't have any debugger all the CPS2 games had an unencrypted range of memory so you could easily patch a shellcode without any brute forcing then they didn't prevent the PC-related addressing mode of 68K to be working so basically you could get the code decrypted and then the key leak in the actual code of the decrypted game that was it was a leak in the original unencrypted version another mistake from our side it was a lot of clumsy hacks sometimes a joystick dumping and everything it was a joint effort by people with various profiles but probably more importantly it was not just us who were able to defeat the CPS2 it was also thanks to a lot of contribution financially sometimes just morally and everything because that was an adventure that spanned over many years but overall it was a great success that's how I see it we clearly got it good that was clearly an awesome victory this killer instinct for the youngest to model you now a bit about on preservation itself this is the bubble memory system it was using a new kind of memory at the time which ended up being very fragile and these games are really now really difficult to get in a working state and they need financial effort and contribution to get to be preserved and when you boot this game it needs to warm up to a certain temperature it apparently takes six minutes in winter and for me this calm down means all these games are going to die if no one contributes so the hackers hack and the other people donate or contribute so that these games are preserved because some of them are really good and they will be lost a very nice one this game nice name for last survivor it was a game that also had a suicide battery and everything encryption network and it was only dumped someone still had a working version of it a few years ago and it was dumped after like 25 years so incredible effort to preserve the game and this game is actually interesting because it's one of the first multi split-screen FPS way before Wolfenstein and everything so interesting historically this game was thought to be lost and it ended up being preserved not so long ago so for these games for this crazy hardware hacking is the only way to preserve them and that should be done before it's too late before all the copies of this game are lost because in the case of CPS2 we could decrypt the game only if the battery was even if the battery is already dead but some of these hardware like are lost forever and I think the original the first racing game that we saw earlier is not preserved as far as I know some links on the topic and do you have any question? Hello so thank you very much this was very interesting and with the Q&A I think we'll start with the internet so where are those guys sitting? it's just a screen saver do you have any questions for us? where is he? okay at the moment there are no questions from the internet okay thank you if you would line up behind the microphones so if you have questions of course or I still have the bonus that's not the bonus it's 5 gigabyte on Mac 2? one question so where can you contribute the links supplied there can I get source code the dumps or something because I don't have access to the hardware to the actual hardware but I'd like to contribute yeah well now the main is quite open and it's like open projects so you can still try and see what you can contribute you mean technically right there are plenty of bugs to fix there are some videos where there was actually a bug and I manually fixed the frames each of the frames so that the look the bug doesn't appear don't do that on a 60 frame per second game it's my advice but yeah I mean just for the bugs it's already a good way to start and we are mailing lists and everything now it's more or less open thank you okay we have another one on mic 3 well thanks for awesome talk I would know do you know how much nights you spend on this stuff too long I probably don't want to know myself but it was rejected a lot and I kept improving it every time it was rejected so that's why and I blame Michel's style for making how do you say inspiring me to make it better you can stand up Michel he's asleep okay some more internet questions yeah somebody wants to know if you could tell us something more about the warming up thing that you showed I don't I don't I don't know really just because it was a special kind of memory itself and I needed to I don't know to be honest I just knew it was warmer but I don't know the magnetic or physical reasons for that sorry yeah but I remember you the answer if you didn't hear it it's complicated thanks for that okay on another internet question another internet question is somebody wants to know which platforms are unbroken as of now actually I can let's see if we go to oh yeah that's a bonus did my introduction for my bonus stage the right this is right in two and it was only emulated correctly a few months ago and it's using one of the chip that I showed earlier and this chip it's not a CPU so it doesn't have how do you say a ROM to decap and read bits per bits and it's still undefeated at the moment so the Saboo games so Legionnaire Zero Inks are still not undefeated but preserved the protection is still not defeated and that game using earlier version of that protection this was the first game using that protection was only emulated five months ago okay on mic 2 is there any hope of the companies releasing the software on themselves like Microsoft did with Windows 1 it's extremely rare typically first year a wrong idea about those games is that usually you cannot download the ROMs it's not because they're all that you can download them the IP is still not free and usually when you do a port on iOS or whatever you still have to pay a fee to the original company or the IP owner and typically they don't do that the only very few companies like two or three did that actually that's just because maybe they were they agreed that they didn't have for me a big enough marketing department commercial department sorry for the confusion so the next question is again from the internet somebody on Twitter asks if there if any of the Konami Panasonic M2 hardware if there are any plans for they ask for games like Battle Thrust and Evil Knight I don't know about anything I don't know I don't know about the M2 hardware I mean it's probably not as far as I know it's not emulated and I don't not aware of someone working on it but yeah I don't know it's also need a motivation to get them working so I don't know really it's complicated okay you have a question again on mic through I want to know if like Capcom contacted you like with some love letter from lawyers or telling you a good job guy or something like that so if they contacted us with lawyers and then you said are they telling you good job for breaking the exception neither but usually yeah we were careful because when we started breaking CPS2 there were still games developed on it so we were really cautious about not using too recent games and that was people hated us for that like give us all the games for free now with insults usually and no they didn't really care they can reuse they can get the IP back into control and get their money again from that from the recent ports but yeah no thank you or whatever of course not that's the one now I think but we had a kind of there was one company that was interested in having the exclusivity of CPS2 emulation and we said no because we thought as soon as we release even a protected emulator for CPS2 people would extract the data from it so we said no and it was released for free but we had such an offer okay do we have internet questions? yes yeah we have I have one more question somebody asks if you attack the CPS2 Feistel network Cypher thing directly I don't know really the details of the attack but in the links I gave Andreas Naive published his blogs in Spanish he broke a part of it but yeah I don't understand much about crypto I don't know okay thank you yeah but the the slides are available anyway but yeah yeah okay if we oh okay a mic too yeah thanks for the talk I got a question what's the current state of arcade gaming what's about are there new releases because last year I went to China arcade gaming home there were all these games I never saw and was amazed by is there a Chinese industry for arcade gaming I don't know but Chinese but at least from a hardware perspective now all the games are PCs and there are new games but there are a bit into the multiplayer site so like you have a lot of cabinets connected together and even connected online in Japan so but standard so it evolved a bit but I'm stuck in time and I only care about 16 bit stuff so I don't know but now the hardware is like PCs with a security dongle okay thanks okay do we have oh on microphone hi thanks very much for the talk I really enjoyed it one question I've seen that lately over the last two years a lot of sites that were concerned about the preservation and the cataloging of all the old ROMs have been taken down and for example underground gamer well and since sorry but since only three or four IP holders released their games legally all of them are all the others are illegal so my question would be I'm very much for what you're doing but where can we preserve software like that and I think the archive.org is trying to do that at the moment because it's good that you preserve the software but since there's no way to save it somewhere you're losing that software well I think it's a fake question because when you see all the series in the blue rays being torrent on torrent and those games were like a few megabytes I don't see the problem really just put them in the torrent with games of thrones and then everything will be preserved okay thanks the whole I think the complete main ROM sets 6000 games is like 30 gigabytes yeah with the with all the hard disk rims and the laser disk it's something 300 gigabytes at the moment 300 gigabytes with all the laser disk rips oh it's so big but my question would be are you aware of any efforts currently to catalog the software or the games they are probably but I know I'm not aware because I'm not really interested I'm interested in defeating the protections and getting the games preserved okay thanks okay have every internet questions left I'm not sure if it's a question for a speaker but somebody asks if you just can't dump a live RAM and then rewrite it after replacing the battery so you just dump the game and everything so and then you replace the battery and put it back in sorry I didn't understand somebody asks if you can't dump the game while it's running then replace the battery so stuff gets lost then you put it back in I assume it's technically physical possible but you see how we dump something I don't think we can decrypt something on the fly with our knowledge I mean maybe it's physically possible we are not able to do this yes on mic 4 just an annotation to the question before there is the software preservation society which catalogs old home PC games and Atari games C64 games and they developed special hardware to dump floppy drives with copy protection so there are always private archives of such ROMs and floppies it was an answer to oh ok on mic 4 3 yeah also not really a question or an answer to thing about preservation the archive archive.org is indeed working on that I know a few people who work on that as well they are working on it but they do sometimes run into legal issues of course with IP ownership and such but if they have to remove something then they do keep a private copy of the game in question so that it does actually get archived until it can be released out of copyright ok there are a lot of things in the way and basically if you're interested in working on the preservation itself just making sure there is a copy that remains available then the archive is probably a good place to contact ok thanks for the info so since we don't have questions left over here I will ask you soon internet questions ok no not at the moment any efforts of preserving the actual hardware so has all the information about the hardware itself gone with the companies I'm just asking this because well I'm a pinball inter-assist and they call the actual prints for the all tables are pretty much gone although the software is saved the software but does the all the hardware just die and disappear or someone also asked me if the cabinet art but I'm not following that so I don't know ok are there any questions left ok thanks for your attention and thanks for the talk