Okay, we're recording, please go ahead. Good afternoon, everyone. It's March 21st, Thursday, and this is a meeting of the Joint Capital Planning Committee. Seeing that we have a quorum, I'm going to call the meeting to order. And I need to first make sure that, since we're doing this virtually, that everyone can hear and be heard. And we have one member of the committee who said she'd be a little late, but she's due to arrive. So I'm just going to call out names and just let me know, let us know whether you can hear us fine. Lee. Here, yes. Bob Hegner. Present. Sarah Marshall. Here. Jean. Here. Jennifer. Here. Anna. Present. And did I miss anyone? I don't think so, and Kathy is here. So today's agenda, Sandy, the review of the update on the five-year plan was the first item. Do you want to do the projects first? I think we just had a placeholder on the agenda to have that be first. But you're muted. I didn't, I'm sorry, I did not know that. I did not see the agenda. So I do not have anything to say. Okay, then we... I went and had an update just in case we had new info, but we weren't planning on sharing it. Yeah, no, we have placeholders in sort of, so it means that we can discuss it should you have had it. So we're going right away to school and town IT. And I believe that's Sean. Is that correct, Sean? The schools would be Jerry Champaign, I don't know. And Jerry... I don't think he has anything? No, I don't think, I think it was, it was, I think it was all you. It's okay. You didn't see anything from the schools? Yeah, there's nothing from the schools. So it's you, Sean. Okay, thanks. So if you want me just, like we have years past, just run through the... Yeah, if you run through what we've done is you run through the proposals and we all got them in advance. So if you have, if we have questions or comments, we'll make them after, I think after you've gone through them. Okay. So the first one that we have, I don't know the order you have them in, but the one that we typically ask for every year is infrastructure replacements. And that's our PCs, our switches, kind of all the stuff we have on a normal replacement schedule, our PCs, we replace every five years, our access points tend to be six plus years, switches and that kind of stuff. So that's in there. You can see it's a little higher. This FY25, then it has been in years past and in years futures. And that's just because we're at the five-year point on our servers, which run everything from our MUNIS financial system to vision for the assessors, basically everything we run in-house runs on these four or five servers. And so there's a increase for FY25 as a request to replace those servers just because they're, they'll be five years old at that point and at the point where it makes sense to replace them. And then the existing servers will basically become backup servers. So it's some sort of disaster that we would, we would still use them, but it won't be our primary servers. That's that item. I don't know if you want me to stop between items or just run through the items? You don't have very many. So why don't you do them all? And then we can, if that's all right. Yeah, that, I think that sounds good to me. So the next one that I have that's another usual one is the library IT equipment. That again, we typically ask for that every year. This one, there is a increased amount this year that was in anticipation of the construction of the library. And so obviously that is not happening, happening as quickly as was expected. So the increase for the library IT equipment could be pushed out to a future fiscal year if it made sense, but that's basically why you see an increase there. That's the same idea as the town infrastructure replacements. That's all the computers and switches, basically all the networking equipment over at the library. And then the last one that we have in there that's unusual or a one time thing that we ask for is a replacement for our HR applicant tracking system. So right now the system we're using is part of our Civic HR, which is part of our Civic Plus website. That's been, that's being discontinued this September and we have an opportunity to take the applicant tracking and move it into our munis financial system. There's some big advantages there that when somebody applies for a job, it tracks all the information as far as their application. They're the whole process through interview and selection, but then at the end of that process because it's part of the munis system, all their information they filled in as part of their application automatically feeds into munis, which is our financial HR system. So HR is pretty excited about it because it would be a big efficiency gain for them. And then the other part for us is it takes the employee self-service, which we use and then citizen self-service, whichever anybody who's paid a tax bill online uses citizen self-service, it moves that to a hosted environment and it takes it from being hosted in the town where we have to worry about security of it and everything else to the vendor munis or Tyler technology or vendor will then manage that. That's our three. Okay, so questions, comments, Bob. Yeah, I'm just wondering, do we purchase the laptops and the servers or do we lease them? And if we lease them, would we save money over purchasing? It's kind of like a, it's every year you'd have to pay for it. So I don't know if it would save any money at all. Yeah, we purchase them prior to being director. There was a time where we leased a lot of things and Sandy or I think General Fountain may have more information about price Sandy, but I know there were some changes as far as procurement and what it meant to lease first buy something. So I mean, it certainly would be worth looking into again, but I think that it tends to, when we looked at it last time, it was a better deal for us to just buy things outright, outright rather than lease them. I think, I think procurement got a little bit tricky with leasing and what we also found is we tend to use things beyond what the lease terms would be. And about 10 years ago, we still, who we buy most of our laptops and PCs from, they switched things from being a zero dollar buyout. So we were kind of, it was always kind of a lease to own to all of a sudden. It was a three year lease, much more like you would lease a car and at the end we either had to buy them out or hand them back in. So it got a little complex for us. It'd be worth looking into. Yeah, I don't know if, again, I only asked the question because I don't know and didn't know the answer. And I'm not sure leasing is actually cheaper in the long run than buying since you have to replace them so often. So I don't know, but. Yeah. Any other questions? I had one and I think you answered it. I wasn't, I didn't completely understand why the job application system linking it to MUNIS created efficiencies. But what I'm hearing you say is basically you don't have to enter the same data twice. You capture it once and. Yeah, exactly. And then it's. Yeah, and my understanding is that takes a lot of HR manager's time getting that information from people a second time. And it's frustrating to the people because the advocates that they have already, they've already filled it out once and now they're asked to fill it out again. And this will just. So right into MUNIS. So the $25,000 brings you a new system that integrates and over time, it's labor savings is the way you would describe it as the payback to the town. OK, yeah. No, thank you. Yeah. And you and I think I heard you say quickly is that the library one could be moved out since we don't need to buy more net now. Correct. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, because that's we want to make sure we have enough room to buy the new equipment or basically the opening of the new building. But that's a couple of years away. So so that certainly could be could be kicked out. Bob, yeah, I just wanted to add. Yes, we have labor savings. But actually if there's there's a big benefit to having not pissing off people who are applying for jobs, having them just get get their information in and then it can be shared. So I meant labor both ways, Bob, but even even unpaid labor of someone trying to get a job. People's time saving on both ends. Yeah, no, it's also it's also public relations and, you know, making making the town more accessible. Yeah, and make it make it look like we're not crazy that we're collecting the same information twice. Right? You know, we already gave you. Yeah, the system we're we're running is going to expire and go away. So yeah, kind of forced into it. So I think that's it for our question. So thank you very much for joining us. Yeah, thank you. And the next I have on the list is fire.  Anyway, whoever is speaking to our projects and you can you can talk to them in whatever order makes sense to you. We've we've cured them up and we've all had them to read. You've got you've got the summaries, correct? Yes. OK, good. So I mean, we'll just go go go through it and add it to that or order. And we're going to kind of jump back and forth between three or three hours. I mean, some summaries are pretty much or pretty straight straight four, four, four, four right here. You know, we need to need to replay your play play place or supply fly hose. I mean, that's an ethanol and on go go going thing. Supply fly hose for for fire for fire trucks. So and and and then and then we're we're going to down and down the road, we replayed place or attack us through through the imaging and camera cameras. Of course, that's that's of course we can we're trying to replay play placing equipment that's reaching and and the end of life. Again, as as as it's explained, it gives gives gives gives this greatest situation and where we're where we're going to say I didn't have to add a fire in in in in incident. So next or Jeff, do you want to speak to the RMA ambulance laptop computers and and the Lucas devices? Sure. So the computers are what we use primarily to do our ambulance patient care reporting. So each of our interactions with the patient requires a report whether they get transported or refusals. So this year there was forty three hundred ambulance reports, and that's pretty standard. So the fifteen thousand dollars is recurring costs of keeping the laptops up to date and current. And they they take a fair amount of use in the field and eventually they get worn out and break down. And the cost of repairing them has not been a worthwhile thing because computers eventually they all they lose they're kind of like a car coming up a lot. They lose a lot of appreciation as soon as they get used. So this is just part of our ongoing work with the ambulance service. Yes, sir. Yeah, sorry, which project is this? The ambulance laptop computers, fifteen thousand dollars. It's on page two of six. We might not know that's not in our you might not have given. Oh, really? Oh, OK. Sorry about that. Thanks, Sarah. I was looking for that, too. We we got individual ones as you had originally. Oh, OK. I thought I thought I thought you had to head to head. I thought you had to receive, receive, receive, receive. We even this is the same. We we use the same same four four four format that we did. Lantel out what last year where we print print out is some of some of the summary with photos and that. I thought I thought you had had. No, we didn't. If I just jump in for a second. I do have if I'm allowed to share my screen. Oh, sure. Yeah, you should. You should have these all in chronological order that they're listed on your spreadsheet. And we can forward this to everybody later. I think it helps to have visuals whenever we talk about it. Absolutely. We and I just gave you permission to share your screen. All right, cool. Let me pull this up for you. The where are we here? You've got to get to what I want to actually show you. Can you see my screen now? Yeah, that's all right. So this talked about the hoes and the cameras. And now we're on, excuse me, the laptops. There you go. Go forward this to everybody after the meeting. OK. All right, you're on.  They're not the mil-spec rugged ones we bought in the past. They're similar to what the Police Department buys and for some of their vehicles. And so that's what we're asking for. That's last price time. Last time we bought these early this year, I think it was twenty seven hundred dollars. Give or take a little bit and probably will be a nice increase to share per per laptop. Any other questions? So this is sort of same. We didn't have that item, so yeah. Just confirming this is for the request is for three. Fifteen thousand should buy as close or two closer to five or four to five. OK, thank you. I'm taking a minute, so I'm. And Kathy, did you have a question, too? Because they're both of you are speaking at the same time, and I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. No, it was just what Sarah pointed out. This wasn't even on our list originally. So but I am glad to be this is terrific, because we didn't receive this either. And so if you can send it to us afterwards, we'll make sure it's in the back. Well, it's funny, the four four four four four that the town uses now doesn't really allow allow us to you know, it allows us to put a real real short short to script descriptive on each each each each of these things. But in years past, we've been able to include this particular type of four four format in there. So now we've, you know, we're kind of kind of locked locked in to what the what the what the town uses. And then this is and then this this we bring bring bring in to help kind of flesh out what what you you have. So it's perfect. And OK, you can always send it directly to a staff person the file and then right you just to see it beforehand. So it's great. I think I go ahead. Go ahead and say and I will send it to Athena and she can forward it to everybody. Yeah, I just I just just thought thought thought that we had since then since then sent it. You know, I assume that that we we that we we have but that's all right. So, Kathy, it is on the original spreadsheet that we got. Right. It is. No, it just wasn't for just this wasn't in the package that we got. OK. All right, Jeff. And looking at this, there probably should have been a slight update on the CPR devices. I actually when I put that in was for seven. So that number, I believe is one hundred and forty three thousand dollars. I'll go back and look and that is for seven mechanical CPR devices. We currently have one of the CPR devices per each of the five ambulances and they've gone past their 10 year service life. We use these devices when a patient is in cardiac arrest. They are particularly helpful as we transport and move people either from a house down a hallway in an elevator or even in the back of an ambulance, which allows us to do high quality, consistent CPR at the correct timing and depth. Even while driving across the roadway and then allow the EMTs and the paramedics to maintain a safer posture as I go, because otherwise it meant physically standing over a patient and trying to do CPR often with one hand and hang on to something else. The additional two that we're asking for are actually for adding to the two paramedic level engines we use. And those are our first response paramedic trucks. So there are times that that person is a one or two person response while waiting for the mutual aid or another ambulance to come back from the hospital. So they are at times alone for a while. This CPR device has been very useful and has been associated with a number of saves. One one one thing I'll add I'll add that that just as a reminder, my mind or when when when we send send out our we call the emergency for first response in the EFR when when we send send that that out. It's a paramedic low level piece of apparatus, which which means that the person for personnel on board can deliver all advanced life life life life support services with all with all with all the equipment that they would need to deliver that. The only thing that that they can't can't do is trans trans trans transport. But we still put paramedic level level level level service at excuse me at the side of the patient in a time time time time time time time time fashion. And at the same same time that that the case we've all we've all were already called for a mutual aid ambulance to to to respond. So in the time it takes takes for that ambulance to get get there. We've provided provided provided provided care and we're ready to hand hand off to that rig when when it does it does arrive arrive on on scenes. So I just want to make make sure that we didn't didn't forget that piece. Deborah, I see your hand up. Yeah, so the form we have in our packet had the the project cost changed to one hundred sixty thousand dollars. So can you clarify the total number of devices and the total cost that you're requesting? It's seven devices and go back to my last quote. The last updated quote I received on February 20th, which will actually be a better number than what I had originally is one fifty six. Three nineteen oh eight. So that's probably rounded up to one sixty in this. Yes, there's always the anticipation. There'll be some kind of price bump usually between the planning process of the doing the budget and the actual time of purchase on July 1st ish. Sure. Thank you. Jeff, you could go right into our monitors. So the monitors are gotten moved. So you have that. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So you may see a document that includes two replacement cardiac monitors. We've actually asked those to be moved to the FY 26 budget because it looks like the there was a new version of that monitor being beta tested currently and is coming out. We're simply wait the extra year, year and a half to make sure that that product is, in fact, doing in what it's expected to do and providing the additional patient care treatments that we're expecting. Yeah, Bob, Bob, bottom line. You don't want to buy the first year of a new new model while they work. We're and that's just just the way it is. I mean, you just give them a chance to work out kinks that are going to pop up with a new new model. And then we get the quote, quote, quote, improves version. So that's that's why why that's why why why it got pushed. So. Lindsay, I want you to chime in on the protective protective gear. Sure, protective gear is one of those items that we've been asking for every year. We consider it to be a yearly request for those that are new to the committee. This now up to fifty thousand because the prices have gone up is so we can keep an ongoing cycle of replacement for the protective gear that all of our firefighters where they have a maximum of a 10 year lifespan based on national standards, possibly less based on use. And this is for our full time career and student firefighters. This amount of money enables us to replace 10 to 15 sets a year, which develops a cycle of a 10 year replacement plan for each set of year. One thing I would add that we're doing behind the scenes. You don't see here is two things. There's a push in the fire service to limit the amount that firefighters wear. This gear is kind of an odd situation that all firefighter gear has PFAS in it, which are believed to be cancer causing. You cannot buy any turnout gear currently that does not have that in it. So it just doesn't exist yet. It will someday. So the movement in the fire service is to have our firefighters wear this gear the least amount of time as possible. Obviously, they have to wear it if they're going into fight a fire in a building. But there's so many other things they do. Nonfire training, car accidents, medical calls, even brush fires where they don't need to be wearing the structural gear. So they now have come out with something called non structural gear. Looks almost identical, but it doesn't have all the layers of protection in it to go into a fire and it has no PFAS in it. So the move in the fire service is to have two sets of gear for each firefighter. One that they wear if they're actually potentially going in a building to fight a fire and another set they wear for everything else. So through a grant from the fire marshal's office, we are buying about 30 sets of this gear already, the non structural to start working towards getting every member the non structural gear. This request for the 50,000 is to continue to buy the structural gear because we have to maintain that cycle. But I just want to let you know that that's going on behind the scenes. Anna has her hand up on this one. It's it's really just a common that it's it's wild to me that they have not come up with an alternative yet at this point. That feels nuts and then I'm glad that grants are available for the the other gear. And I appreciate you all going out and getting those. So thank you. Thank you. You know, the alternative, you know, you're talking about with the alternative turn to turn to turn to the gear that has the PFAS in it. That's that's what you're referring to. Yeah, is that what you said? So that there was funding available for that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the other the other piece of this, it's just in the last couple of years that that they've found that that that's an issue issue. So it takes it sometimes takes the industry a while to kind of come up with an alternative turn to turn to turn to turn it because it has been so big with it. So but the thing thing is this this type of non-structural gear has been out out and been out out there for a while. Usually it's used used for urban search searching, rescue type type type work. And they're finding that, you know, this this can can can be used in another type of non-structural structural fire for firework. So it's beginning.  So and then like anything else, sometimes those things move to to to to slow slowly. But but we were able to, you know, jump jump on the opportunity to to tune in to you use a grant to get to at least, at least, at least, at least, at least begin to, you know, to obtain that that type type type of gear. So folks, folks, folks won't be exposed to that. And those those possible car and cars in this indigence over over a longer period of time. Great, thank you. Yeah, this this will be a Jeff Jeff thing. Yep. So this is a EMS IV infusion pump. And basically, it's a medication pump. More and more of the medications that are available to us, according to our statewide treatment protocols are requiring the use of a pump, which gives us a more specific treatment dosing for the patients. And we're looking for seven total of these five for the ambulance and two for the two paramedic level engines. I would add, Jeff, I didn't include it on this list here. This would come out at EMS receipts also, correct? Yeah, this would be certainly a viable EMS receipts item as would the Lucas devices. So both of those are very applicable to that, Sarah. Yeah, tell me again, who's who is requiring that you use these devices rather than the state the state Office of Emergency Medical Services is pushing more and more of the medications that are available to us. They haven't mandated it yet. It's just good patient care. And really, the difference between the two is that one of our medics, if I was doing a infusion, a drip that you might see, if you were in a hospital, they all of theirs are plugged into a pump and they are very specific in how they they give those. We give those by watching and counting numbers of drips, calculating a flow based on volume and concentration and all those things. So we're going to try to let technology make us a better of what we do and do patient, better patient care. I think one of the hall hall hallmarks of this department part is that they they've always been looked down, down, down, down the road to see what's what's coming and what's what's what's at the cutting edge. And that's and that's and that's and that's one one good thing. And the other side of this is that at some some point, this will be a man, a man, a man day. So it's trying trying to stay stay ahead of the head of the curve, ahead of where we're where we're in in front of where the state state is going and staying out in front in terms of paid paid patient care. That again, I've always I've always been impressed by that. That that's one of the things that this this this is our part is really, really good, good, good at this is your your bit, your bit, baby. OK, and the police department. So this item here, I can't have a whole thing on the screen at once. I'll just go to the one of the photos. Obviously, this is a big ticket item as things go. This is a replacement, essentially, of the infrastructure and the what we call the subscriber units, the units in the field. I want to make it clear this is both a police and fire joint venture. There's two components to this. The first component is replacing the infrastructure. So we're talking about the base stations for both police and fire, both departments, although on different radio systems, one VHF, one UHF. Most of our base stations are co-located. So there are places like Mount Lincoln, the North Fire Station, soon the Tower Library, UMass, etc. Those devices, which you see pictured bottom left there, that's an example of a base station. Those are now end of life, according to our vendor, meaning you cannot buy parts for them. There's they have to scavenge parts to keep them running. And we have had a couple failures over the last year that Doug Geary and I deal with for our respective departments. So they've informed us that they can't tell us how much longer they're going to be able to keep those base stations going. So the first half of this is to replace those stations. But as part of that, we are also looking at improving our coverage. Both police and fire do have gaps, parts of town, where we have poor reception, primarily from portable radios. We paid for studies, covered studies this past summer. So Goose Town Communication, which is our radio vendor, they came out. They did studies. They did mapping of what our current sites are providing coverage and recommendations for adding, deleting, changing sites. So we have all those site maps based on that. They have given us recommendations as to where our base station should be. We don't have a single one. We have multiple sites listening throughout the town for our people out in the field. So we have that new plan as to where radios should be. And they've given us, obviously, a quote for what it would cost both to replace these aging units and to improve the system to maximize our coverage around town. The second part of this, the proposal is to replace the subscriber units where essentially the mobile radios and the portable radios are out in the field or in the cars and in firefighter and police officers' hands. Some of those are already new in both departments, but many of them are old and need to be replaced. We've been slowly doing some of them over the last few years. If you look at your capital plans for the last couple of years, we are proposing that any future radios, portables and mobiles that are purchased be what we call a tri-band, which means that they are VHF, UHF and 800 megahertz. And the reason for that is more and more all the agencies surrounding us are on these different bands. Franklin County has gone strictly 800 megahertz. Northampton is about to go 800 megahertz. Places like us and Hadley, Belchtown continue to be VHF, UMass is UHF. So to have interoperability, the ability for everybody to hear and talk to everybody else, the standard these days really is to have tri-band radios. So we're also, that's part of our proposal. So this as listed would replace for the 1.9 million, would replace the infrastructure and all the necessary subscriber units for both police and fire. I know that someone had mentioned leasing earlier, I think in the IT conversation, they do offer a leasing option for this equipment. I don't know if the town is willing to entertain that. I do have some prices on that if the committee of Sandy wants to look at that. I do have that available. Eugene, I'm going to wait for everyone else and I'll call myself if you don't ask it. So Eugene, then Bob. I just had a quick question that it is a big ticket item, but it seems super necessary. What happens to all the old equipment? Does that have any market value? Is that something that could be sold to other departments that maybe don't have the capital and need to actually scavenge? If you could talk a little bit about the disposition of the old equipment. Sure. As a general rule, the answer is no.  So the base stations really have no value other than some parts might get scavenged by the vendor for another department that's limping along. The mobiles and portables, we typically run pretty much the end of life. Also, there might be a very small trading value there. And that's something we would certainly look to negotiate with the vendor when we do the upgrade. If they'll give us a trading value for some of the equipment. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I would like to see the lease expenses over time. I know it's probably more than $1.9 million over five years, but it might be more doable for the town to do the expenditures at a lower level for five years. When I send this summary that we're looking at now to Athena, I'll include that very short, simple spreadsheet. It's got that number on it. I will send it along as well. Thank you. So I'm going to follow up on Bob. So on the lease after, if you spread it over five years, do we own it after five?  So the answer to your question is, yes, I believe we do own it. I'd want to check the parameters of that with the vendor, because we've never actually done that before. But if you look at this here, this gives you a rough breakdown of the cost. You'll see the top line is infrastructure. So that's about half the total cost of this proposal than the mobiles and portables are about the other half. After the right there, you'll see the leasing figure they gave us, at least for the infrastructure. And I'll include this along when I send it to Athena. Okay. And my second question is you've got a system with portables that works for two large departments. Would it make any sense that for the other public safety group we have Cress to be on the same system in terms of radio frequency? And I don't know how much that requires a separate linkage to the base, or is that just the mobile units? So it's a, and Cress was not mentioned in terms of coordinating this. And I know the dispatch system is going to be increasingly dispatching to the group. So that is my question. Sure. So a couple of things I'll say to that. It's somewhat of a complex technical answer. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but it's a good question. The biggest issue would say putting Cress on, quote, this system would be they would need their own channel or frequencies and those you have to get from the FCC. So when Cress started going back a ways, it was look at can they be on the police system? Can they be on the fire system due to call volume and logistics? It was decided that no, they really couldn't just jump on. Either one of our frequencies is more the issue than the system. So as we replace this system, technically could there be a BHF or a UHF frequency that Cress used? Yes. But we would have to get those from the FCC. And that is increasingly difficult. And the bigger issue is you would need a base station. All the places we currently have police and fire base stations to listen throughout town for our signals. You would have to have another radio listening for the Cress channel. If that makes sense. So you basically instead of having one, two base stations, you need three for every location. So it'd be a huge cost increase. What we actually did for the Cress program, myself and Doug Geary and Doug Lever from IT worked on this. We settled on a first net push to talk system, which is really a cellular based system. And honestly, that has worked phenomenally well for them. It has great coverage. It's incredibly less expensive, both for the devices. There is a monthly subscription fee. And I can't speak directly for the Cress team. I think the communication piece of their puzzle is working quite well. So it's probably not cost effective to try to put them on to a radio system, given what they have now that's working very well. And I'll try to chime in. And I'm doing a lot of work with Cress. The presence system that they have. Communication system, it is working. And it should work well for the future. Thank you. Yeah, I have a question about the base stations. And where I started out was, I think it would be great over time if we could have agreements so that we'd all be on the same system. Everybody would be on Northampton system or whatever. In other words, if we wouldn't have separate systems, you mass police fire. But would that still require a separate base station for police versus fire? Or could you, if you were to have only one system, would you be able to reduce the number of base stations? The only way you could reduce it is if we went to what's called an 800 megahertz trunk system, which is what Northampton is doing. Then basically you put in one system that has multiple channels that are shared back and forth behind the scenes. That is doable. You're talking, you know, a few million dollar system for that. We briefly discussed that with our vendor and given our needs for fire, for VHF, for distances, we decided that wasn't really doable and the police had their reasons. They didn't think that was an effective way to go. And what I mean by that is, you know, we're sending ambulances down to Bay State and Springfield and up to Franklin County to Bay State Franklin Medical. So we need long distances. There's also some issues about using 800 megahertz for fire ground operations with firefighters in the building versus VHF. So an 800 megahertz system, which would be a massive rebuild, you would basically every single piece of radio equipment we have right now, base stations, mobiles, portables, pagers would be obsolete. We would have to start from scratch with every single piece of equipment. So the price tag would be enormous. So this solution here, the police are overall happy with VHF. We're happy with VHF buying the tri-band radios where we can, in fact, talk to any other department with the right programming with the solution that we settled on. Okay, that's enough. Thank you. You know, I'm not the radio guy that little Lindsay is. And 800 megahertz is a great, great system and all that. But I always have a fear when you have a single point of fail, fail, fail, fail, failure. That always scares me. So that's another reason why they have separate systems. Because if the big one comes, there are times where you could come in and share someone else's system. But that's just a thing with me. Anyone else? Lindsay, when you send this in with the lease price, could you also confirm that after that amount of time we'd own it? Okay, thank you. I will forward this immediately to Athena today, but then I'll get the answer to that and pass it on to her. Okay, thank you very much. I believe the police department, when they do their presentation, which I don't think you've had yet, they'll talk about this also obviously from their standpoint. Are there any other, oh, right, did that ensure your piece? Oh, we have one more? Yeah, one more. Okay, go for the lease. Okay. Yep. Chief, can you talk about this or do you want me to? Yeah, I'll try to chime in, but yeah, this is yours. Okay, so this is to purchase another hybrid. We purchased our first hybrid two years ago. So this is to replace a 2007, 4500 that's actually off the road right now because it wouldn't pass state inspection. That's the car on the left. The car on the right is just an example of what we would be purchasing. State contract with APDs help. They're the ones that buy a lot of these. We have a, we basically have six staff vehicles in the department. Three are assigned to the chief officers, myself, Jeff and the chief. Then we have one firefighter prevention officer, which is a hybrid and O9 escape. And then the captain at each station has one when they're on duty. So the one at the north station is out of service now. That's the 2007, 4500. Our proposal would be another hybrid explore to put it into the mix and replace that vehicle that's currently off the road. And when we do something like this, typically the vehicle, the newer vehicle, go to one of the chief officers and then it would be a hand me down to the, the captains at the station. We've had good luck so far with the O9 escape knock on wood. And Jeff currently has our first hybrid explore, which Jeff, I think is working out okay for us. Yeah, it's worked very well. Any questions? All right. I was a little further from my mute button than I wanted to be. Can you talk to me about the decision to go hybrid versus fully electric? Is it because of charging infrastructure? Or was there another reason in terms of the vehicle choice that you needed? Honestly, we're following along in the footsteps of APD. They, you know, they're buying these and we tag along on what they're buying. We have not looked heavily into the all electric and I'm not sure. I can't even tell you if the electric explorer is available or not. No, no, no, no, it's not. It's not, it's not yet. No. So I think my question is because APD often, I will, FYI, I gave, I'll be asking you the same question. But I think the answer that we typically get from APD is that their cars are required to have some level of crash rating that there aren't electric cars that have yet or something, something along those lines. I'm seeing, I'm seeing another APD person nodding at me. So maybe I got that one right. I can answer that question if you need to. That's okay. I'm going to ask it to you in five minutes. So, okay. But I think my question is, does the fire department have a similar requirement or is there a reason why Ford Explorers are your vehicle of choice beyond, beyond just that that's what the police department is? They're definitely our vehicle of choice. And that's for a variety of reasons. We used to use the stands like the 4500 we're purchasing.  So the back of a vehicle like an Explorer has a space for that. The thing about the Explorers is because they are used so widely in the fire and police services, the, you know, light bars, the center consoles for radios, everything is by and large sold for that. You can buy them for other vehicles or have them custom made. But that's the platform of choice these days in public safety. So there's a cost and efficiency savings to have them outfitted when you put the radios in the lights in the sirens in, etc. Because so many agencies, you know, from the state police to police to fire are using this vehicle. The other thing, the electric conceptually, we're certainly not against. One issue you do run into on all electric, as you know, is charging stations. Now you're looking at needing charging stations at the fire station. In the case of the chief officers where we do take them home. Now we'd be looking at charging stations at our homes. And you get into the whole mother venue of how's that's going to work, who's going to pay for it, which I have heard some other agencies talk about. And honestly, it's sort of a quagmire. I'm not sure we want to get into right now. And the other piece, too, is we use these vehicles as a mobile command, command, command, command, command post. So you're at a scene, you're nowhere near a charging station. And these can be some long term incidents. And you've got all, and you've got your equipment to run in an incident. And the items you're using, that can be a very, very big power draw. And you want to be able to depend on your vehicle to use as your command, command, command post over a long, long period of time. The last thing you want to be concerned about is, oh, am I going to run out of power at a critical time or whatever, long, long term? So, and that's one of the other reasons. I mean, I think hybrid is the way to go. That MU, it's sort of six and one half dozen of another. It's getting to where we should be. But in my experience and what I've seen, the all electric type vehicle that we would need, it's not there yet. I'm sure down and down and down the road it will be. But I think going high hybrid is way, way, way to go and go right now. It's crawl, walk, run. I hear you. I will say, and this might just be me, I do not buy the argument about range because I think that when we're looking at an average daily range of 250 miles, I guess if y'all are covering 250 miles in a day in one vehicle, I'm impressed. Hang on, hang on, Chief. But I think that the, I think what I would ask of you is to consider this as like in your long, long range planning on vehicles. And do you think this is the direction we're going? I'm not saying it's this year. I'm not saying it's even in the next three years. But I think that this is a direction that I would love this department to consider as you're thinking about long term plan for this type of vehicle specifically. Where this year, a hybrid's fine. I think I just wanted to plant that seed for y'all. Well, yeah, but I said, I said, I think that this is the way to go. All the little electric at some point. I said that, that down range, that is the way, way, way to go. And that's why I said, for all walk, run, we're getting there. And it's not, and what I was talking about was not about range. I was talking about sustainability, sustainability and sustainability for our equipment on a scene during an incident. If you're talking about range, you can find, find, try to, try to, try to stay, stay, stay, stay, stay in this all over the place. What I'm, what I'm talking about is for at a scene, which doesn't have, have, have one. You want to be, you want to have, you, be, be able to depend on your equipment. Still being operational for a long term. So it's, oh no, it's drawing on power. So it's drawing down. I do understand that. I think that it's, I do think that comparison could be made to running out of gas, right? I, I think that it's a, it's a valid question to ask when we get to that point. And I look forward to the run phase of that process. That's great. Any other questions on this? You know, my question originally was about price tag, but I understand what you're getting is something that has all the other pieces added to it already. It's not just a car, but it's a car with sirens and radios and, and a lot of other. Sarah. Yeah. The estimated life is 10 years. I'm hoping that's pessimistic because that's a lot of money for, I mean, vehicles should be lasting a lot longer that than that these days. So. Yeah. Well, to that end, so we are replacing an 07 Ford 500. So obviously we got the 15 or more years out of that. And on the Explorer packages, technically are a little bit beefier vehicle being an SUV. So, yes, I would hope that you're right about that, that we would get closer 12 to 15 years or so out of it. At least. Thank you. Oh, no. I have a question for Sandy. Sandy, do you have a vehicle list for us by any chance? I was going to say, I don't think I saw it in the packet, but if I missed it, that's on me. No, it's not in the packet yet. I worked on it today thinking I could get it done in an hour and I was not able to. So I do not have a list, although I am getting closer to it. Okay. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. That informs my any other questions. I don't have so no worries. Thank you. Thank you. I suggest we move to police unless there are any other questions on this set. And we can thank the people from Fiery MS who don't need to be here for the police. If you believe you can, you're welcome to stay as well. All right. Well, thanks. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks again again for how we appreciate the time. So, all right. Thank you very much. And thank you. I thought it was very helpful to get the pictures and the long. Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you for providing that. All right. No problem. Thank you. Any eavesdrop for a little bit? Yeah. They want to make sure I ask that same question to the police. They're like, don't hold us to that different standard. I'm just kidding. Well, he's got to hold me out. That's what we do all the time, pal.  We did see the short list of, you know, the several sentences that came in with the request from the original sheet. So it's up to you to figure out which order you want to present these. So I can chime in. You have that brief list and I figured that it'd be better if we discussed them each item. Unfortunately, the fire department showed us up with bringing nice photos and whatnot. And I'm going to steal that from them for next time around. But we do want to, if you have that list in front of you, originally that list had eight items, I believe a couple of those items are scratched out because from my understanding, the capital requests need to be over 10,000. And those requests did not fall within those guidelines. So they've been scratched out. But I will talk about, I did bring along a couple of our subject experts, which is Officer Doug Geary and Captain Ron Young, and they will be able to chime in on some of these to be able to give you the best accurate picture of what we're looking at. So the first one I want to talk about is our hybrid vehicles.  So I think we'll be able to answer some of those questions as well. And I am going to turn that over to Doug Geary to kind of provide us with an explanation in terms of what we're requesting for that. Doug? Yeah. So usually we're on a replacement cycle for usually three cars every year. And then on that fourth year, we do a fourth vehicle. So three, three, four. So we were pretty much on that schedule all the way up until fiscal year 21, which was going to be a four car year. And obviously COVID hit and everything in capital was canceled. So we were put behind four cars in that replacement year. Chief Livingstone, the following year when we re-engaged capital, it would turn back into a three car year for the following years for 22, 23, and 24. So to make up for those, he had requested four cars for each one of those years, of which in 22 we did get four, 23 we did get four, and then 23 we got four, and then 24 we requested four, and then that got reduced to three. So from the zero year in fiscal year 21, we're basically down three vehicles in our replacement cycle. So due to that, we definitely have, I'm just referring to my notes, one, two, three, four, five, six vehicles that are exceeding well over 100,000 miles and are definitely not reliable vehicles as we should need them. We actually had one of these vehicles responding to a head-on motor vehicle crash a couple of weeks ago. The car failed and stopped running, and that officer couldn't respond to that call. So we had to have a district car from another farther away district respond to that. So it definitely is affecting our response due to not having reliable cars. That was one of our older ones. We do have two hybrid patrol response vehicles right now, and they've been running great, definitely doing their job. We do have one, two, three, I think we have four patrol or admin hybrid vehicles, and they've been working great. So to add on to the hybrid technology with police vehicles, Ford is really the only manufacturer that has made a police, I can't really call it just police, a heavy-duty public safety use vehicle. That's the reason why the fire department wants to use them, because they're built with a purpose. They're heavy-duty motors, heavy-duty brakes, heavy-duty alternator, heavy-duty hybrid battery, and like the chief said from the fire department, we are kind of in the crawl stage right now. We're not in a run because hybrid technology for public safety vehicles has not met the standard yet for public safety use. There are some out there that say they are, but they're not. I know Northampton police bought a hybrid, Ford hybrid pickup truck. They used it for a short period of time, and the battery life did not last. They ended up giving it to some other department within town, and again, it spends a lot of time on the charger and not as much time on the road. So for a public safety approach, this is a safer approach, but we're definitely embracing electric vehicle technology as it applies to public safety when that moment becomes available. So another problem we're having is when the hybrid vehicle technology came out for police vehicles, obviously the price jump was significant. It basically went up by $20,000 to $25,000 because this was brand new technology, and the problem is now since COVID and supply chain issues and the high demand for hybrid technology throughout the nation and out the world, batteries are at a very high premium right now to get. So as every year has gone up, the prices have gone up, and we're up to, our cars have multiple technology lights, radio, siren, portable battery chargers, in-car video systems, mobile data computers, radar units. So we have a high demand for electric current in our cars. So again, if we had all electric, that wouldn't last very long, especially if we were at an emergency scene. So these hybrid cars are really, they're working, they're not flawless. We have a significant amount of issues, but they've been resolved, but definitely would not be able to do an all electric vehicle anytime soon. So as I said, the prices have increased. When we first started this back in, the first car was in 2020. It was around $65,000, and that was even short because I didn't even have correct figures at the time because it was such a new technology. It bumped up, we're up to like 80, 85,000, and now Ford is telling us that the price is going to go up again due to hybrid battery shortage. So if we want to stay with the hybrid police vehicles, that price is going to increase. I know it's up to $90,000 per vehicle, the 320. That's just to make sure that if we're going to stick with hybrid vehicle technology, that we have enough money to buy them. Because if we come up short, then I'm scrambling to find out how we're going to pay for the difference. Also another issue is, as we usually trade in our vehicles, so I try to maintain our vehicles to a high standard. So when they trade in, they get a high trade in value. Due to COVID, we've held on to these cars a lot longer than we needed to. So they're older in model year and they're higher in mileage. So typically cars that I would get three or four or $5,000 for are now around $2,000 to $1,500 because of that delayed in purchase time. And it's been a really tough challenge. I know with the Crest vehicles, we ordered try to get Crest cars for Crest. That took me almost a year and a half just to get plug-in hybrid Ford escapes because the demand was so high for hybrid technology. And luckily, I was able to secure some. So I'm still waiting on cars that I ordered back in fiscal year 21 for 22. They're just starting to come in now and be built to arrive from Ford and starting to be built at the upfitter. So it's a challenge, definitely up to the challenge to maintain the hybrid technology obviously for the cause in the green communities. The issue we have here in town. So again, like I said, the $90,000 or the $320,000 seems a lot higher. I'm just trying to project a buffer in case the prices get higher that we have the money to buy them as opposed to undercutting them and then we go to buy them and then we have to figure out how to how to purchase those. Can I ask a question? Yeah, sure. Sure. Thank you. So the the submittal I'm looking at says four vehicles for $320,000. So that's 80, $80,000 each. Are you saying you would like 90 to be sure? Well, yeah, I must I didn't I don't think I updated my numbers here. Yeah, so it should be 90. I'm sorry. So 360. Yes, 360. And are these patrol vehicles? So the majority of these will be patrol vehicles. Some of them will replace some of our admin cars and we do based upon the condition of the vehicles at the time. I make a decision on what cars have the highest need to be replaced in regards to reliability and safety. So currently, we have two canine officers that have patrol dogs. They're both of their vehicles. One of them is a 2015 Ford Explorer non hybrid, just a gas, and he's up at 134,000 miles right now. And the thing that worries me about them is that their cars idle a lot because to keep the dog either cool or warm, but depending on the on the on the weather and their engine hours are huge. So right now they're gas so it's burning straight gas. If they have a hybrid, the hybrid to gas running is usually one third to two thirds. It's usually two thirds in hybrid mode battery and one third in gas, which basically acts as a generator to recharge the battery to go back in hybrid mode. So that one 2015 is already has 134,000 and we have another one. It's a 2018. He's already up to about 105,000. So my my concern is at least these two vehicles I know I want to replace because there's obviously a lot at stake here with with an animal being in the in the vehicle. And then we have some standard replacements with some other other vehicles of which one's at 118, another one's at 110, another one's at 115. So these vehicles are also out of warranty at this point. So any repairs are straight out of pocket, where they're warrantied up to 100,000 miles. So probably eight out of 10 repairs I make are usually covered under warranty, the big ticket items, a little stuff is little, but the big ticket items, motor, transmission, emissions, any of that kind of stuff is covered under that warranty. And that's why Ford is big in the in the public safety hybrid vehicle market. So I see Anna and Bob.  My one of my questions is that there are certainly many benefits to switching to hybrid or electric vehicles for the environment. But one of the other benefits hypothetically is cost savings on gas. And I'd love to hear if you have any data on sense switching to hybrid vehicles, if there have been cost savings in that in that effect. So that's question one, which hopefully is is simple either. Yes, you have them and you can tell me or not know not yet. And then my other question is, in 2022, Eastampton started buying Teslas. And it's been a couple years since Eastampton is about Teslas. And they also have bought I think a Mustang that was fully electric and I'd love to hear I am, I'd like to be very clear, I am not pitching, I do not want us to be buying Teslas. But I would like to hear if you know anything about how that has worked for them. And I believe the reason I'm asking is I believe that they bought it with the intent of it being the primarily the parking enforcement, not kind of one of the regular fleet fleet vehicles in that sense. But I'd love to hear if you know how that is working. Again, I am not proposing it, mostly asking from your expertise, if I'll take a Tesla, I specifically said I was not I should have said I'm not getting Captain Tang or chiefs, interim chief. I don't know what to call you anymore. I'm not going to gave a Tesla. But anyway, but I am curious if you've got any thoughts. So I remember when Eastampton went to the Teslas, Chief Livingstone did come to me and talk to me about that. I don't know if they were in a moment where they had to buy electric because somebody said they had to buy electric. Okay. They did. I know that the chief has assigned one. There you go, Gabe. And the detective bureau has one. The Mustang is new to me. I don't I haven't talked to anyone recently. So I didn't know if they got a Mustang Mach-E and what they're using it for. They do. Ford says the Mach-E is they can you can use it for police work. The problem I see with it a is it's not purpose built for police work. So it's again just a civilian use car. The difficulty is too is that the equipment you need to put in these cars isn't always specific to that vehicle like they do for them for the Ford Explorer. So it's difficult in that way. And the warranties for this don't aren't like the ones for the police vehicle. So the police vehicle has that five year 100,000 mile warranty where these are three years 36 miles bumper to bumper and maybe to 70 on like the powertrain. So then you start rolling the dice here. If you start because these are basically rolling computers. It's a computer with two electric motors wrapped in a shell of metal or aluminum or whatever you want to call it. So when they go bad, they go really bad really, really quick. So if you don't have that warranty, now you're shelling out the big money to figure out why it doesn't work. Another reason that Tesla is and I brought this up to Chief Livingstone was the Teslas, again, they don't really make police equipment for Tesla. So you have to do all this weird creative stuff to retrofit it. Again, Tesla doesn't say, Hey, this is this is a police certified vehicle. And we're going to warranty it if you have a problem because then you'll we have a problem. They'll come back and say, Well, all the radios and the radar units and the computers are causing your problem. Now you're up in the air like, Okay, well, it's really is it really that or not? They use it as an excuse where Ford says this is a purpose built vehicle designed to take all this electronic equipment. And also part of this too is Ford says that the Ford Explorer police interceptor is certified for pursuit rated. And I know pursuit is not a good word. What basically what's that saying is it's designed to go faster and drive, drive it at a higher performance than your average Ford Explorer. So if you bought a Ford Explorer at your dealership, its suspension, its motor, its brakes aren't the same. So the safety component of that the police rated one is has all that equipment. And like you mentioned before, it has a rear impact rating of 75 miles an hour. So if that officer sitting on the side of the road, and somebody runs into the back of them, that car is going to absorb that energy before it's going to significantly hurt that officer. And we've also the pictures on the news, especially with the state police of cars getting hit from behind. If you opened up the back of that car, and opened up the floor, there's they put these extra metal crossbeams in the rear of the car to absorb that where the regular Explorer doesn't have that nor would a Tesla nor would a Mustang. I think it's interesting to have East Hampton as a test case, even though, again, it's not something that I certainly not something I would be proposing. But I think it's interesting to have East Hampton as a test case specifically when it comes to questions around, I say range, meaning including idling time. I do think that that would be a good question to ask in terms of their usage of those vehicles. As we look forward to many years down the road, if we're getting to a point of running. And then yeah, my other question was savings on gas, if you know of that. So we haven't really done a gas assessment yet, because like I said, we got our first one in fiscal year, 20 into 21. So basically, we wanted to build a few years of gas data and take a look and see how the usage between our current gas fleet and our current hybrid fleet and kind of compare what they were replaced by. So you had our previous gas vehicles and we want to and see that. So we're going to definitely pull that data from the fire department at some point here and try to see where our fuel savings is. I don't know the cost Captain Young deals with the finances in regards to the fuel. So he might be able to shed some light on if we've spent more money and fuel less money or what have you. So yeah, something I'm interested in myself. Thank you. I know you had said two thirds hybrid, one third gas. And so I was curious about the savings given that approximate usage percentage. Thank you. Right. I would love to know that even if it's not an exact price breakdown, I think it'd be helpful to know the usage roughly. Definitely. I'm curious myself. And one thing with the test was to so the chief and the detectives usually have a couple lights and a radio. They usually have nothing else in their car. It's pretty simple. So it's going to be hard for me to compare a patrol use vehicle to a very simple design in regards to how we set those cars up. And one other thing I want to just add while we're on it with Teslas, there's no repair facility. So if you need to fix a Tesla, you have to go out in eastern mass somewhere far deep out in the 495 128 loop area because they're still prevalent there. We're here. We don't even have a dealership here. So when I deal with Ford, Ford actually has a dedicated mechanical division just for police, public safety vehicles in the Worcester area, which is only an hour drive from me. And the turnaround time on repairs is extremely quick. Sometimes the same day based upon any issue. So if the Tesla, we did that, it'd be a total nightmare for anyone, anyone to have to try to fix or repair those cars. Thanks. If you have any other feedback from East Hampton folks, just generally less, less Tesla specific, more just electric specific. I'd love to hear. Thank you. I see Bob's hand is up. There were two others, but maybe they're not up anymore, Bob. Yeah, I just got a little confused about how many vehicles you'll need each year. If you could give us a spreadsheet to show, when you order them, when you get them, whether it's a patrol car or a chief car, that would be very helpful to see the picture over five years. Okay, thank you. I think we can move on to the next project. Okay. So the second item that we have on my list is a new records management system. So the records management system that we currently operate is IMC. That's the name of the company. And the last time that we had switched over to IMC was 2003. So it's quite, our system's old and a little bit antiquated. And I'm going to turn it over to Captain Young to kind of discuss why we are seeking a new records management system. Ron? Everyone. Full disclosure before I, and I won't talk as much as Doug, I promise. The full disclosure before we get going, we are in the early stages of this and we're just beginning our research. As Chief Ting had said, the current system that we're utilizing is almost a quarter of a century old. And so we have a history of holding on these for a long period of time. And so we want to make certain that we do the proper research to find a system that's not only robust, but to have some longevity to it. Just very quickly, the history of IMC, it was a Massachusetts state, it was a Massachusetts located business and it was very popular and prevalent here in New England when it first came on board. At one point, between police and fire, something like 85% of all municipalities utilized IMC. And frankly, I was here when it first got here, it was a great system. It was a far cry from what we're using. It was an old PC slave type system that went back to a central database. And it was, it was far more intuitive than we were using at the time. But as time has gone by, it's aged, records management is becoming more challenging for us. And I just jotted down a couple of things that we've noticed over the last decade or so. One of the things, of course, we've gone to a digital system. So all of our photography, fingerprinting systems, video type evidence, things that we use to not only, you know, complete and investigate crimes, but also things as something as basic as how we hand out permits are all done in digital way. And it eats up an enormous amount of volume in the, in our records management system. Most of these records were required to keep for a lifetime. And if not, there's a schedule that's established by the superintendent of public records. Many of you are probably familiar with that. And so these aren't, these aren't records that we can delete on a readily, readily basis. There are some public paper records that we can delete based on a, on a system that's outlined by the state, but they're very few. The integration system that we have, it doesn't, it doesn't work well. It doesn't play well with others because the, because the date, the system's a little dated. There have been some patches, our IT department's great, obviously, but there are some patches, some things that we've been able to do and some workarounds, but it doesn't work well with our scheduling software. It doesn't talk at all with mutus and some of those things. We, we, we feel the number of records requests on a regular basis. Something as simple as, as, you know, meeting with you folks and questions that you might have about our activity. Certainly when we meet with the town manager, and then there are public records that were, that were requested on the regular basis about things that we do in the agency, number of, number of stops, number of arrests. You name it, we receive a request on it on a weekly basis. This system was not designed to mine that data very well. Some of the newer systems that are out there integrate or lend themselves, I should say, to being able to not only use that data for crime processing, for public safety record related issues, but also for public records requests, we can mine the data so much easier. I've gone on a couple of demos to some of the larger agencies and see what they do and how they do things. Things that would take me hours, they can do in minutes. The, the price that you see there is a rough estimate based on what current market standards are. As I said, we started the, we started the, again, we're thinking long range here. We, we, we started in looking what some of these systems that would meet our needs would be, and that is a rough ballpark of what some of the agencies are paying with today, today's prices. That includes data migration. So, and which actually, I learned something about this just recently that the system that we would purchase and would be supported by IT department would be roughly about half or two thirds of the price and the rest of it would be for data migration. So things that we, you know, things that we took on board, like arrest reports, for instance, a number of years ago were required to maintain those records, arrest reports are a great example. That's a lifetime, a lifetime requirement, have to keep that forever. So that migration component, as we move forward and investigate this future, you know, further for the, for a future decision is going to be an enormous, enormous part of this. The biggest issue that we have here is the support. So again, I don't want to bore people with a history lesson, but IMC was originally, as I said, was a Massachusetts or New England based organization. It's been sold half a dozen times over the last 10 years or so. It's now owned by a corporation called Foursquare, which is based in rural Pennsylvania. They've made it abundantly clear that they will not support IMC much beyond a three to five year window. So I wish, I wish that a member of our IT department was here because they could bail me out in this area. But what that basically means is some of the fixes that are required will not be forthcoming at some way. There's a finite life to this program and the support we're going to receive from Foursquare. A great example of that is post, right? So post is a relatively new thing that in the policing world. And the way we capture data and report data, post had some very specific requirements on what they wanted and how they wanted it. And it was a very big challenge for IMC to even meet those standards. They were very reticent, they were slow to the punch. There were some frustrations at post end and obviously in the policing end so that we could be in compliance with what the CMR regulates. So again, the system that we have now isn't currently broken. What we're using is working, but it there's an end of life and it's anticipated. Chief Ting and I discussed this actually goes back when Chief Livingstone was still here. We started planning this thinking strategically that this is going to have to be something that the committee is aware of and it's a large ticket item and that's a cost that we're going to have to endure, the town's going to have to endure at some point. I'm open for questions. Thank you. I'm going to see Sarah's hand us up. I'm curious about, it sounds like a huge amount of data that needs to be stored forever. So where and how is it stored and who is, I mean data can actually go bad over time. So what is part, how do you, how does the new system, if you know, because you haven't chosen it, going to handle all that? So one of the things that's, and it's actually in a odd sort of way, it's a good thing that we've had the system for as long as we've had because as cloud-based systems have evolved, the security measures that are in place have evolved. So a lot of this will be stored in the cloud. So, you know, currently right now we store it all locally and we had a data breach a couple years ago, not a release of information out, but in terms of our internal storage where we thought that we had lost a large portion of our data because of a failure, a hardware failure that had occurred in the, luckily we have a great IT system, they were able to recover it. We have a backup system in place, but that's a long answer for saying the majority of it will be stored securely in the cloud. Other questions? That was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Thank you very much. You know, you know, I know the Sandy, the list that adds up to a total has been evolving over time. You know, initially this was on a list maybe rightly or wrongly for next year rather than this year. So my only question is, is this essential for the coming, you know, this coming fiscal year or could it, since you're still exploring, could it wait until FY26? I don't want to speak for the chief, but I do not believe that it's essential for this coming year. We, I actually think would be premature if we tried to try to do it this coming year because we certainly wouldn't have enough information, understanding that it's not only just a large ticket item, but the community is going to be utilizing this for hopefully a quarter of a century or more. I don't think it would be wise for us to rush into this. We need to explore it. We need to investigate it. We need to produce the best packages. Again, it's not just for the police, right? It's a community-based package. There's a lot of information that we share with our brothers at the fire department, with the crest department, and we, you know, we have to deal with some of the public records requests on the regular basis. No, I, again, chief, I don't want to speak on your behalf, but I don't think we'd be prepared to do this in this coming fiscal year. I'll tell you, I'm in total agreement with what you had to say there, Ron. You know, the way that another aspect that we're trying to look at is, you know, a lot of departments across the Commonwealth are in the same boat. And so they are starting to, some departments are starting to pick up on new companies and whatnot. So we're kind of waiting to see which systems are out there that are working, because it is a big ticket item, and it is as important as we think it is. We want to make sure that we make the right choice. So we're going to let these other departments make the mistakes first, and then we'll learn from them, and then we'll be able to pick the correct system that works for all of us. So I'm in total agreement. I think it can wait. It's not dire at this point, but it is something that we have to look towards down the road. Thank you. So you have a few others? The next item at hand is a backup UHF repeater at AFD North. So basically what we are looking for is a communication center. Our communication center kind of lacks a secondary system. So everything is stored up in our dispatch center. If something catastrophic happened and our dispatch center went down, we would be in trouble. So we're looking for a secondary site, which is AFD North, which we have some portable units there. But we want something that's a little more fixed, a little more stable. And again, I'm going to direct this to Doug Geary, who's our expert on this, to kind of explain that system. Go ahead, Doug. Yeah. So currently, as Chiteng explained, currently we have some backup workstations at AFD North. So if something happened here that the communication center, they couldn't work here, they could actually move up to the fire department and actually use those workstations to do all their communication in regards to receiving phone calls, dispatching police and fire and EMS. And it would work fine, but it would work over our current radio system. So as Assistant Chief Lindsey Strong once spoke before, we have a radio system structure.  What this request is for is for a totally small standalone system that if our radio system failed completely, the whole structure and our communication center could not dispatch police, they could relocate to the fire department, the North Station and have a totally separate standalone radio that would be able to receive, transmit and receive communications from the dispatch to us. So it's again, it's a failsafe. So if our big system fails, this is a small system, not as robust, but it would be something better than nothing. Currently the fire department, I believe has the same thing. If their system completely failed, which is basically meshed with ours, if it completely failed, they have that option to go to this standalone smaller dispatching thing or smaller system. So they currently have it, we don't. So we're requesting that we have that option. So if something does happen, it can also be used as a training site for new dispatchers. So they can also go up there and do some simulated training exercises on this as with the fire department and their system. So they could get some, some real time training scenarios without actually going on our main system and tying up those resources. They're obviously going to learn on the job during training in that, but this gives them the ability to do some preliminary training on these remote sites. Any questions on this one? Sarah? I have so many questions. This is, this is different from the big expensive emergency system we heard about from fire earlier. Yeah, so the one from fire is actually, it's a joint police in fire. It's just the assistant chief Stromgren has taken the lead on the presentation. So yes, that is something that we, we eventually need to do with our current radio system because our, our current overall radio system is, is very antiquated for the times. I'm not sure I caught everything he said, but our system is a single site, transmit site. So we have one transmit site up on Mount Lincoln in Pelham. That worked great years ago, but now that we have multiple buildings, a lot of these commercial residential over commercial buildings are extremely thick with steel and, and concrete. And that is the worst thing for radio systems because it has such a hard time. That is also compounded by the fact that I'd say probably 10 or 15 years ago, the FCC mandated that we go from a wide band spectrum frequency to a narrow band spectrum frequency. And with that came many problems. Wide band is, is a very strong, wide permeable radio frequency that can penetrate buildings. When they went to narrow band, that caused a lot of problems with permeability. So now when we're in buildings, even like our police station, it's very difficult to hear radio transmissions because that single transmit site with the low band frequency is our narrow band frequency is trying to get in the building and it can't very effectively. So with that, that's why we're, we're asking for a bigger radio system. This other thing is the other standalone backup system is something we've been in the talks about for many years and it's been put off, put off. This is something that if the big system failed, and our current system is, is running, but it could fail at any time, we have no option to dispatch our cop police officers if something happened with our current system. So with that, it's really an inexpensive backup option and many police and fire and communication centers have that. So if something did happen, whether in our communication center or the network, radio network itself, we have somewhere to go and do that. Welcome. I don't see any other questions so we could move on to the next. Okay, move on. The next item that is on my list is the 911 Equiture Recording System. So I wish I had a dispatcher here to kind of explain that. What it is, is basically every call that comes in to our 911 system is recorded. And from my understanding essentially is that the state used to mandate a specific system that we currently use and the state is no longer, and basically they funded it and the state is no longer using that. So the state wants all of the 911 dispatch centers to go to a different system which is this 911 Equiture Recording System. So the one that we currently have is becoming obsolete and it's no longer being supported. So we're seeking for this new system that's going to be forced for us to be used anyways. That's kind of it in a nutshell. I don't know if you have more info on that, Doug? Oh yeah, you're totally correct. The state basically back in the day mandated a certain recording system. They actually provided it. They actually maintained it and did all the work with it. Now the state is basically getting out of that and is putting it back on the municipalities to buy their own system and they're recommending that this is the system they buy. So it's the continuity across the state is the same. But again, they're putting it on the municipality to buy the system and maintain the system. So thank you, Massachusetts. But that's what's happening with that now. And again, everything is going to be on us to buy it, maintain it. We're in the past. The state provided it, maintained it. And again, it's now when they've made the decision that this is becoming the end of life for this machine. So at some point, it's not going to have any support or repair option to it. And obviously we have to have this running to do the 9-1-1 recordings 24-7-365. The only question I had on this one is, is this a one-time expense? So you said, then there's maintaining it. But this is put this new recording system in and then we've got it. And it will last however many years the physical thing. Yeah, my understanding is that we purchase it once. There may be an annual support fee. And again, Mike Curtin, the communications director, he would know more about this. But I believe there is a fee associated with that annually. And it's a maintenance fee. Okay. What that is, I don't know. No, that's okay. It doesn't sound like you have a choice. No, we don't, unfortunately. So is that it on projects? I have one more, one more to talk about, which is our in-car video system and video evidence software. So our current system is is made by a company called WatchGuard. That company has recently been bought out by Motorola. And so Motorola has taken the particular system that we used and making that one obsolete, and they're revamping it, making it more robust and in a lot more advanced. So there's no longer any support for those, that particular model that we have. So this particular request is to replace all of that so we can have the updated model. The ones that we currently have are not going to be any good anymore. And once they fail, that's going to be it. And again, our resident expert is Doug, and he can talk about that. So it's not only our in-vehicle cruiser cameras, it also affects our interview rooms with the camera systems and recording systems as well as our cell block intake for booking. So if you want to take it away, Doug. Sure. So we've been in the in-car video business probably for 15 or 20 years. We were very, very progressive with getting in-car video many years ago. So we've had several systems in the early years, but we actually probably 15 years ago, I want to say, we purchased these systems, and they've been extremely beneficial to us in our job in regards to the police work we do and in court use and bringing evidence to court video evidence. So as Chief Ting said, these systems are facing end of life. So this WatchGuard company was very progressive with their video systems. A lot of police departments bought them and Motorola came in and liked what this company was doing and Motorola bought the company, which is great. But then Motorola took this product, all the good of it made their own system, which looks exactly like it, but it has a newer flair to it. And in the process, they changed the operating system that runs these video systems as well as the in-house data server that's in-house. They changed the software to run that. So if I needed to buy any more video systems, we were on a every other year two system replacement. And obviously during COVID, we stopped that. Now, if I needed to buy a new system, the new system would not be compatible with the old system. So we're at a point now where I'm not buying any new ones. I'm maintaining what we have, but as Chief Ting says, as the systems fail and there's no support, then I have to place those systems out of service and they're permanently out of service. So the natural progression would be here to go with Motorola's new camera system and new evidence management, video management system. And that could either be housed locally on an in-house server or the new thing is like Sean Hannon said everything can go to the cloud now or Captain Young said for our records management. Most of the stuff goes to a secure cloud now. So that's an option. So moving forward for our in-car video, our booking intake rooms and our two interview rooms, this would be the new technology to move forward for the next 15 or 20 years. So we're at a point it's going to start stopping and fail and we're not going to have any options. And what is the price tag for the full replacement? Chief Ting, what do we put down for that? We quoted $195,000 for full replacement of an estimated 20 units. Right. Now we cover all of our vehicles, all of our interview rooms and all of our booking intake rooms and then that allows as so as the officers make recordings in the field or do interviews or do intake booking, they can then go back to a computer, go to a website, which is the cloud and actually watch the video. We have to watch this video before we ever type any reports because obviously the report needs to match the video, the video needs to match the report. So it's a huge piece of equipment that we use right now on a daily basis. I may have missed it, but I didn't see it on the original list. So, or the list we were looking at. So it would be good to get just a paragraph. You know, so did others see this? So I may have just missed this item. You know, we still had it penciled in at $18,000 for a replace two on one list. But you know, we're just, we're trying to keep a tally of the totals and this, this, this is a big, this is a bigger number. So I guess the question I have is do you need, do you need to do 20 all at the same time? Or could you do some, but not all? Well, like I said, the old system is not compatible with the new system. So if we did that, we'd have to maintain two systems, okay, two evidence libraries, two maintenance agreements. And again, as those fail on the older side, I'd have, I'd want to replace them. So my theory is, is that if we stop the maintaining the system, the older system and not pay for the maintenance fees and pay for the replacement of the parts, and we stop that cost, and we obviously do a one-time purchase, that one-time purchase is going to last us for 15 or 20 years. Yes, there is annual maintenance costs to go along with it, but that's part of any software package that we own. There's always maintenance, annual maintenance costs. And could you live with the not great system that won't be supported very long? We could live probably one more fiscal year. But I can't guarantee anything about that. Right now I have, out of the 20 units, I have 19 running. I have one right now that I'm having problems with repairing. I'm having problems getting parts for it. And I'm trying to locate stuff to get it back up and running. So right now I'm doing okay. I can't tell you where I'm going to be six or a year from now. Any other questions? No, thank you. Thank you very much. And also, thank you for the service to the town, all of you, the police, fire, EMS team. Thank you very much. Thank you. So we can send that information over to you. We'll make sure that you get that. No, and it would be great because Sandy and Jennifer are keeping a track of this. And at some point we're going to have to find out what the total is for this year. Not just you. Right, right, right. Certainly. The whole works. Thank you very much. Okay. So we have one other, I think one other, it's the parking vehicle. Is that correct? Yeah, it kind of, it falls under the parking budget. But we actually, as part of my duties, I actually may obviously maintain our fleet of vehicles. So I do that as a courtesy to the parking division since we actually, we actually supervise the employees in the field. So the car is a 2024 fusion hybrid. It's done, it's done a very diligent job of day to day parking life. It's probably close to 80,000 miles, but it's a very hard 80,000 city miles. So things are starting to break. Things are becoming unreliable. And a lot of high ticket costs. We actually had it on the road the other day and it died and I couldn't figure out why it was, but it had some kind of hybrid meltdown that I had to try to figure out. Luckily I got a back run in and fingers crossed it's still going. Fast forward to what's today? Today is Thursday. Fast forward rewind to Tuesday of this week. Zach Horvath, one of our parking enforcement officers, he was doing his proper traffic awareness and stopped for a pedestrian at a crosswalk on East Pleasant Street right by the spoke. And a younger gentleman who was not driving very smart decided to try to pass a car behind him and then pull back in behind Zach. And he got rear-ended. So the current parking car is severely damaged sitting in our back lot, really not safe to drive. So we're kind of at a crossroads here in regards to hearing from the insurance company whether it's repairable or they're going to total it. So repairing is one thing. If they agree to it, if they think it's worth the insurance company's investment, but if they total it, definitely the cost of what that car was in 2012 is not going to be the cost of what the car is going to be for this day and age. So I'm still waiting the insurance company to let me know. So at some point we might have to replace it because of the damage. And I don't know what those numbers are yet because I haven't done any research in regards to if they do total it, what that cost would be to replace it. And the same headache is going to happen as I had with the Crest vehicles is then if we have to replace it trying to find an available vehicle under state contract that I can find and secure. And then obviously the insurance company will give us X amount of dollars, but I'm sure that won't cover the cost. So then we have to come up with where that extra money is. So it might be cheaper now to get the car because if they total it, it's less we have to pay than paying for a brand new one. That's something I'm going to have to find out in the next few days. So we'll spend on it. The question I had on this, it was penciled in at $60,000. And when I looked at this is the this is the car that goes around giving people tickets, correct? You know, I mean that's because checking meters, checking. Yeah, we call them parking ambassadors now. I've been parking ambassadors.  Yeah, they have a lot of discretion. And I think I know Zach, he's been on a job not too long. And I've talked to a lot of people in the community that really like him because he's a very common sense parking ambassador. So Anna may ask the electric side, I'm going to say on the hybrid side because when I went on quickly to say, what's the least expensive small hybrid that I can buy? I was finding price tags under $30,000 because this car doesn't have to have all the bills and whistles that we've been hearing for the police and fire cars, correct? Exactly. So definitely this would be a prime candidate for a full electric vehicle. Something in regards to I have to consider with this is that they haul around still haul around change and collect money from meters. So they have a bunch of equipment, these metal boxes, these buckets, they carry around these three big orange boots that they put on people's cars. So there is a kind of a component of this car that I need to have so they can store that stuff safely in a vehicle and not be injured by that if should they get an accident. So the current car they have has actually has a petition between the front seat and the back seat. So if they get hit, things don't go flying forward and hit them in the head and seriously injure them. So I have to consider something in that nature that would be able to house their equipment, but yet still be functional. In an electric car, they spend 99.9% of their time in town. So parking starts at eight in morning and when we have a full complement, it ends at eight at night. So it can definitely be plugged in and be charged for a long duration and can be used. Anna. Thanks, Kathy. That was my question and Officer Garry, that was the answer I was hoping for. I think my question is actually around timing. So given the accident, which bummer, big bummer, and you said when do you anticipate a lot of this kind of is conditional on what the insurance company comes back with, right? And so when do you anticipate knowing, like will it be before we wrap this process up or will it? So I hopefully should know within the next week or two. So the claim has been submitted to the insurance company. I usually get a confirmation back. Again, this happened on Tuesday. It's Thursday. So I don't have a confirmation yet. Actually, because we had a separate accident happen with one of our cars, one of our cruisers got rear ended. The appraiser was here and I said, Oh, by the way, look at this car, but check this one out. So he's already taken the information about the car. So I'm waiting for the insurance company to say, Okay, and then once they reach out to them, they say, Okay, we already saw the car. And hopefully that process will happen quick. So I anticipate within the next couple of weeks, I'll have that. Yes, we're preparing it. No, we're totaling it. And this is what we're going to give you. Great. And, you know, I do hear your point about the safety in terms of storing things.  But I'm sure that there are lots of options out there. So I think it sounds like Kathy will just need to stay tuned on this one and go from there. Okay. Thank you all. Appreciate it. And oh my gosh, put big springs on the back of the cars or something. People keep re-rending. I kind of solved. I have solved the rear ending problem. Don't worry, everybody.  Sorry, I couldn't find my unmute button. Sorry, if you mentioned this, but does the in the case of the parking car, does the at fault drivers insurance company come into play? Yes. So the they do, they're actually paying for a rental vehicle right now. So the parking car will not be driving around saying parking management anymore. He'll be driving around in a white Chevy and Paula with nothing on it. So he's in a sneaky mode. So yes, the insurance company is their insurance company is currently paying for the rental. We always go through our insurance company. So we obviously were taking care of properly. And then our insurance company goes after their insurance company to be compensated in full, including the deductible to make sure that the town is fully compensated. So then is it actually an expense? Expense for? I mean, like we're talking like this committee is tasked with deciding how to spend funds. But if ultimately the at fault drivers insurance company is going to compensate, like is this going to be an out of pocket expense for the town? So like I said, it's a 2020 or 2012 Ford Fusion Hybrid. So the town, I believe our insurance policy actually covers the cost of the vehicle at the time of purchase. So I don't actually have that number off hand. I could definitely research that and get that to you. So I'm assuming that they're going to give us the value car when we bought it. And then obviously go to buy now that that cost is going to be larger than what we paid for the car originally. So yeah, there'll be some out of pocket cost to cover the difference. Right. But it wouldn't be the expense of buying a whole brand new car like we were originally requesting for parking. Gotcha. Thanks. You're welcome. Sarah. Yeah, I just just clarifying you are you you already wanted to replace this vehicle before it was rear-ended, right? Yes, because it's just it's a very tired car. It's starting to get very quirky and unreliable. Right. So the the issue is just how much money, if any, you'll get. So actually the actually the accident could benefit us in a certain way. I hate to say that, but it could. Thank you. Sarah, your hand is still up. Is that Jennifer? Is that just you didn't take it down yet? Yes, that's right. So any other questions? So we might have enough money to buy half a car from insurance and then we need the other half or something like that. Yes. Oh, we can look into Teslas again. Just kidding. There are much better electric options at this point. So I is that's the list right now, correct? It is. Okay. And so I want to thank you all very much. And I see that Doug Slaughter has been with us, but I'm not sure exactly. I don't think we have another project on our list, but Doug, you're certainly and I'm and police fire. Want to leave? You can stay. My tongue. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time. I've been doing plenty of other things if you hadn't noticed, but I was just here to talk to it and the fact we didn't have a request this year and explain it if anyone had a question about that. But we're we're in a sort of sweet spot in a way, I guess is a simple description. We have a new building that's going up. And so that's going to afford us an opportunity to do some investment in IT infrastructure. So that's going to be a help. And previous capital is holding for us. We've not spent it all yet. So we've got existing capital that you've appropriated in past years that are going to help sustain us over the next year. I think next year we'll be back with an ask, but in the current year, we didn't need one. So I just wanted to share that with you all and, you know, let you know why it's a zero, which it never is, but it is this year. So thank you. It's actually and you don't want us to take back that unspent money because you're planning on using it, correct? That is correct. That is correct. We will spend it just we haven't spent it yet. We've been fortunate with some of the purchasing and some of the needs. And so we've been able to kind of make it last a little bit. So we're trying to be smart with it. So thank you very much. I'm sorry I didn't call on you initially because I didn't see a project when we did IT. So so thank you. Thank you for joining us. So I'm looking at it. It's almost six o'clock. I don't see any public. So I'm assuming we don't have any public comment. And we already have a volunteer for or a new kind of volunteer I assigned minute taking for next week. And Sarah did it for this week. The only other thing I just wanted to mention was that I sent everyone minutes. I got one all clear from one person and one careful reader found some oddities. So I fixed them. We posted the minutes, but I'm not calling them final yet because I've been reviewing minutes. And since I took the minutes, I didn't feel like I could review them. So if you would all just take a look at them, they're in this week's package. And if you see anything, let me know. Otherwise we can next week just make them final and not have to take up time. And Sandy, I don't know whether you have any other words of wisdom for us for before we come back together next week. I just say a couple of things. One is I think this issue of hybrid public safety or electric public safety vehicles is a big issue. What I have heard consistently talking to departments is for any number of reasons, they are just not ready to do them yet. So I just wanted to reiterate that because I know it's frustrating to see that this stuff hasn't moved forward. I know personally I would like to see it move forward. My partner works in DC all the time working on climate issues. So she would like to see it happen. So, but I just want to give you my two cents. My reading on it is I just think the manufacturers have not been coming forward with designs that meet public safety's needs. And I don't know if you wanted to respond to that. I do. I really appreciate you saying that, Sandy. I think my reason for continually asking and I'm not throwing a hissy fit about it or anything. Hopefully it takes it that way. But I think my reason for asking is to make sure that I know that it's because the manufacturers are not getting the options out there well enough. But I want our departments to keep asking and I want us to keep asking the departments. And I think it's for us, it's for me, it's really about making sure that folks know this is on our radar and that we're looking for it and that if manufacturers start to make it and it starts to make more sense, just like electric school buses, I know we've had challenges with them, but that they are becoming phased in more often and that there are grants available, etc, etc. So I think my purpose in asking is to kind of check in and confirm what I believe is true, which is this available, to reiterate that I'd love to see it. And I know we're not there yet, but I want to keep asking just to make sure folks know that it's on the radar if that helps. But I do understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your response. And Lee has her hand up. I was in Iceland this summer where I was told that for many, many decades they had always, toyotas had always been the car of choice. And now it shifted to Teslas because Iceland is, you know, gas is very expensive and electricity is very cheap. But I kept asking and they said, except for our emergency vehicles. So I just had my hand up and took it down. Maybe this is of interest. You know, at the moment I don't want to waste your time. And sometimes sometimes it pays to wait a little because things get better and cheaper quickly. So it's just another thought. And I'll take my hand down. The other thing I just want to say, and I'm not making a judgment yet because I really have just more questions than I have answers. And that is, I still have a lot of questions about this police radio replacement. It showed up on our screens, so to speak, just recently. And I guess I would like to know a little bit more about it. So sometimes when public safety comes in with projects that sound important and good, they are important and good. And sometimes they need a little more work. So I just want you to know there are a number of things that have been presented to you, some of which I think are ready for prime time, others may not be. So that's kind of where how I'm thinking about things now. Sandy, that's the 1.9 million. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge number all at once. And I mean, I did ask them in our budget hearings if this is so important. Why is this the first time I'm hearing about it or they're hearing about it? So we'll see. I just want to let you know that trust but verify is how I would put it. How do we do that? Excuse me. How are we going to know if it's really urgent or not? I think that partly there's going to be some conversations I'm going to have with both chiefs and I had some initial conversations and got some different answers. So I got some email during this meeting and I just want to look into it some more. So one of the things that's always hard about doing this work is that all these things sound like great ideas. Sorry. And they basically, everybody has great things that they would like to do and justify Apple, but sometimes you just have to say no or say wait a year. So that's the mode I'm in right now. And I think it would be as soon as you can come to us with some of those insights because I've been putting like a question mark or a slash through and mainly focusing on big ticket items. I figure it doesn't help to get rid of $20,000. Because as you showed it, some of this could be put off in debt financing but that gets us in trouble over the next few years. And I heard the one today was we don't need to do it this year and I said well that's good news because it was a really big number. So that was excellent to hear directly from people rather than us having to puzzle over it. So that would be excellent to get as many insights from you as we can. Sarah? Yeah, we're going to need clearly an updated spreadsheet because some of the prices have changed and I'm not sure, you know, some things weren't in the packet and I don't know if they're in the spreadsheet. And I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be going back to an old packet to see a spreadsheet that's getting updated all the time or you will present us a new spreadsheet. I've been working and we just finished up all of our budget meetings including discussions with the department heads about their operating and capital needs. So I now have notes from recently as Tuesday which I then need to put into a more coherent form and update the spreadsheet. I also just yesterday finally talked to Sonia about the debt numbers. So there are a lot of these things are just sort of coming together and I know I need to get it to you but sometimes when you have to get stuff from other people, you know, it takes a while. You know, sir, I did double the spreadsheet hasn't been updated, Sarah. So you know what I've done is I'm manually updating it by crossing things out and moving arrows over and you know it so it's it's a messy. So Lee. Again a very ignorant question. When we talk about moving things up to the cloud now, as opposed to what confidence do we have that the current state of the cloud is going to be where we want to be as opposed to waiting and doing it later. I would if I could speak to that. I do think that's an important issue but I would also opine that it is becoming very common for municipalities to move their data to the cloud in all sorts of departments, not just public safety. You know, the whole issue of things like police cameras take terabytes, whatever a terabyte is sounds terrifying of data. It's big. It's very big. So so I do think it is becoming a common practice. And I would say in my opinion, for what it's worth, it's become reliable enough through repeated usage that I'm not worried about it as a as a technology that that might be, you know, too new. So any other comments? If not, if someone wants to make a motion to adjourn, we'll do an adjourn. Bob moved. Kathy seconds. I'll just do a quick roll call. Bob? Yes. Kathy? Yes. Sarah? Yes. Eugene? Yes. Anna? Yes. Lee? Yes. And Jennifer? Oh, no, Jennifer Shaw is gone. So Jennifer has left us. So it's unanimous for those who got we are adjourned until next week. I want to thank everyone and thank Jennifer LaFontaine and Sandy. I know how much heavy lifting you're doing to scramble to meet a schedule that was already in the past before you started. So thank you very much. My pleasure. Bye. Bye everyone.