Baumann, Berg, Bonet, Doyle, Graf, Manny, Montemayor, Moody, Perez, Rindfleisch, Steffen, Van Ankeren, Vanderwill, Wongerman, Warner, Wenninger, 15 present. Cormes present. Alderman Graf. Thank you, Your Honor. I would move that we approve the minutes of the last common council meeting from September 15th, I believe it was, and the two special common council meetings and the same stand approved as entered on the record. Let's move to a second that we approve the minutes of the previous council meeting, the two special meetings and the same stand approved under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Alderman Wongerman, would you lead us in a pledge, please? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Old habits are just too hard to break. Okay, this evening we have one presentation and that's by David Cooke Cook from Maywood, Dave. He's going to speak on the International Earth Ride. Good evening. On September 20th, we had our fourth annual Earth Ride at Maywood and the mayor was out there that morning. It was a gorgeous day. He asked that I come back in and give a summary of the event to you folks, and so I have lots of good news to report about that event. First off, that was our fourth annual, as I mentioned before. With that ride, it's not really a race. It's really designed to be a family event. We have five different road routes that people can ride, everything from a short 10-mile route to a little bit longer 100-mile route. What happened is just before the third annual Earth Ride is our information about this ride got put into Bicycling Magazine as being one of this country's top 25 rides. Because of that, we've had riders that have come in from all over. In fact, this year eight states were represented by riders that came in, as well as having riders from New York, California, and Georgia, and two riders from Esslinger, Germany. So they did come quite a distance just to ride through Sheboygan County, which was really wonderful. Some of the stats that I wanted to share with you tonight, first off, to pull something like this off, it took a lot of help, and we had 150 volunteers that helped us with the event to make it all work for us. We had 40 sponsors that helped with donations on both a national and local level with donations of funding, products, and volunteer support. Thrivent Financial for Lutherans was our major corporate sponsor. And we had pledges. Riders had the option of just paying a fee or providing pledges to get into the ride, and we had 48 of our riders that pledged for the ride. There were 625 riders altogether that rode on that day. So it was a great turnout. And our first year, we had 120 riders. Our second year, we had about 240 riders. Our third year, we had about 420 riders. And as I mentioned, this year we had 625. So it's gone up just astronomically each year. And the ride routes that we had, the statistics from that were kind of interesting, and you might think that the longer the distance, the fewer the riders. And in contrast, it actually goes the opposite. The least road route was the shortest route, which was the 10-mile route. And on that route, we had about 50 riders. On the 20-mile route, we had 101 riders. On the 40-mile route, there were 152 riders. The 64-mile route brought in 139 riders, and 128 riders rode 100 miles across Sheboygan County. And you also might think that it takes somebody who has been training for years to do that 100-mile route. The oldest rider on the 100-mile route was 71. So there's some amazing things going to be done by people that really have the determination to do that. The bottom line in all of this, of course, I'm sure that you're concerned with is, well, what did it cost us? And, well, it did cost us about $8,000 to put this event on. But it brought in $28,000. So the net was about $20,000 that we raised that will go back into helping our parks programs. So all in all, it was a great day. It continues to grow. We've always had good weather, which we've been very fortunate at having. And we're getting a reputation for having a fantastic ride here in the state, as well as here in Sheboygan. There's a lot of riders that have been doing these kinds of rides for years and years. One of the most popular and well-known rides is the Door County Century. And that means a 100-mile route. And a lot of the riders who do that route came to our ride and said, this is far better. So I was real happy with that, that Sheboygan County and the city of Sheboygan has such a tremendous, wonderful location for doing bicycle rides. And, of course, Maywood, of course, is the start and ending point for that. And it was really a lot of fun for the people. Some of the added extras that we do besides just sending people out to go on the ride. We provide them with breakfast in the morning before they leave. They have dinner or lunch when they get back. In fact, we had 152 feet of sub sandwiches for them. Last year, we had way too many subs. And we called the Sheboygan Police Department. And they gladly accepted the subs. However, the subs were six feet long. And so when they came out with a squad car, they had to stick it through the back windows when it's sticking out both sides to get those subs down to the police station. So we had, we more cautiously ordered our subs this year and came out just about right on that. But it did take a tremendous amount of food. There were seven rest stops out in the county that people could stop at. So at about usually about 15 or 10 to 15 mile increments, people could stop at a rest stop and get all the food they wanted. So it was, they really could eat all day long, as well as get their exercise. When they got back to Maywood, we had the Sheboygan North cheerleaders cheering them on as they pedaled into the driveway. And then we had free massages provided by the Blue Sky Massage School down in Cedarburg that came up and they were doing some bonus or demonstration work for us. So that was all gratis. And then there was music provided and just a fun, fun day for everybody that came out. And so there were young riders that couldn't even pedal on their own that were in little trail behind type bikes to the older riders that were out there as well. So again, thanks for giving me the opportunity to come back and share this good news with you. And we'll continue to try to make that event grow bigger and bigger each year. Thank you, Dave. We have one hearing this evening. And it's to add the west side of 2,500 and 2,600 block of North 7th Street to residential daytime parking privileges and regulations. Is there anyone out there in the gallery wishing to be heard on the hearing? Any interest of parties here wishing to be heard on the hearing? All of them are off. You know how moved that the hearing be closed? Move to the second hearing to be closed under discussion. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Resignations. Thank you. This is a letter to Business Improvement District Manager Richard Meyer from Bill Dawson advising that he needs to resign from the Business Improvement District Board. That can be accepted in a file. As far as appointments, today's date to the Business Improvement District, Trisha Fippin to be considered for the unexpired term of Bill Dawson, whose term expires 9, 16, 0, 5, reappoint Rich Scroggins and Tammy Conard for three-year term to expire 9, 16, 0, 6, appoint Craig Mazza to replace Lynn Rouse, whose term expired 9, 16, 0, 3, Craig Mazza's term will expire 9, 16, 0, 6, signed by the mayor. That will lie over. And appointments to the Special Municipal Court Investigation Committee, Alderman Warner and Weingemann and myself, Sergeant Katowski, Attorney Dave Gass, Ronald Beenan, Citizen and Ronald Irline, Citizen, all terms expiring October 15th, 2004, signed by the mayor. And that will lie over. Public farm, Pat. Henry Capitul? Henry, make sure the mic's on. Yeah. Testing? Testing? Is it on? It doesn't sound like it. I got it pushed. Okay. Okay. Most of you know who I am. And the reason I'm here is because you're going to be discussing the budget. And the reason I know that is I read the article in the Sunday press, which some quotes were that the mayor had quoted in there that he had listened to some of these constituents regarding the tax increase and that he had also met with some of the other mayors within the state of Wisconsin, which are trying to hold property taxes down. And that's the reason why I'm here, because I think that overall you will probably be discussing that there is no tax increase, that you're basically the budget is what it was last year. But in reality, that is not true, you know. Taxes will be increased. And the reason I say that is because and it will increase in the millions. The reason is just alone last council meeting you had where you increased or you set a fee for a stormwater sewer or stormwater fee, which is now enacted and will be generating approximately a million dollars. That million dollars would have come from the general fund, which comes from the property taxes. Now, also what you're looking at is over the last three years, the property tax evaluation has increased approximately 7.76 percent every year, which means increased taxes. So in essence, there are people are going to be taxed at a higher level. They will be paying more taxes, even though that you may say no, we have not increased the tax rate, which is true. You have an increase to rate, but the actual values of the properties have increased, which generate will generate more income for the city. You look at the situation that you found yourself in this year where in the newspaper, it said the city was at a deficit of three point five million dollars. Well, the city was saying, well, you know, we had a cut in shared revenue, but according to the same figures in the paper, that was approximately 850,000. Well, if you deduct 850,000 from three and a half million, that still leaves you two and a half million dollars almost of a deficit. Now, to me, that means that there's some overspending. And if you're going to be looking at increasing and getting more money, generating more tax base, and then I hear of services that are going to be cut, to me, that doesn't make sense. How can you be getting more money, be spending more money, but providing less services? You know, that in itself is not right, because I think that if you are going to be looking at the services that are there, and if you are going to be receiving more money, that you look at areas that can be cut, areas that I think a lot of people, in fact, I was just surprised at some of the salaries that are paid for city employees. I mean, some of these employees probably wouldn't get that in the private sector. And it used to be that public sector paid less money than the private sector. And now it's just reverse. Another quote that was in the paper was that the mayor was listening to his constituents. Well, I'll tell you what, I wish that mayor that was being quoted in the Sheboygan Press would have been at the meeting that was held here about two weeks ago, where 30 business people were here and 29 were against the stormwater fee and only one was for it. If that mayor that was being quoted in the Sheboygan Press would have been there, I think things would have been different. I think that the fee wouldn't have been the three dollars, may have been less, or maybe there wouldn't even have been a fee at all. But what I would encourage the council members to be upfront with the taxpayer, to let them know that yes, their taxes are going to increase. Because when everybody opens up their tax bill, it's not going to be the same as it was last year. There are going to be some increases and they will continue to increase. And unless there's a willingness on the part of the council to actually cut spending and not increase, a true cut. When people say, well, there is no increase, what I would see is not an increase is if I would pay it exactly the same that I paid the previous year, not more, but the same. That to me is not a tax increase. Thank you. All the way up to an eight, you have something on that? Yeah. Mr. Capito, I have a couple of questions for you. Not quite. We don't take questions. You have remarks. Okay. Then I'll reserve. Okay. Okay. You may comment, but we don't question. Leslie Westover. Thank you for letting me speak to the common council. This is my first time to ever be to a city council meeting in any city in America. So I am like totally petrified being up here. So please bear with me. I am an amateur. I am not a professional speaker. I brought my watch so I can try to keep within the five minute rule here. I had to break off my visit with my wife up in the ward up at St. Nicholas Hospital. She's in pretty bad shape right now, but I but I came down for a few minutes to speak to the council on an issue that I feel passionately about. And as soon as I'm done speaking, I will dismiss myself to go back to the hospital. I wanted to speak for a moment about the city transit service and how that will be affected by the state revenue cuts. And I wanted to let you know that I have been in many cities in America through my travels throughout the years. And I've seen some bus services that have been very successful and some that have been, you know, total bombs. And but the ones that I have seen that have been very, very successful were the ones in which the city and the bus service tried to promote bus passes instead of bus tokens. And I can give you a prime example of what I mean by this. For example, last month I bought a bus pass. Well, I knew that you there's like the drivers like to call it a bean counter. It's a their little cash machine where they punch in, you know, how many riders have been on the bus that that day. Well, as I step onto a bus, they pushed the little bean counter to say that one more head has arrived on board the bus. And and of course, this is reported to the state and federal governments, which then determine based on how many riders you have, what your ridership is, the level of federal matching funds that they will give to the city. And I'll give you a prime example.  That's a bean count. You have just counted me as another bean counter that that goes to the federal government to get you more matching funds. But if I have to reach into my pocket and pull out a bag of 10 bus tokens, you know, you're going to see that you have a limit of 10 bus tokens and you're going to be thinking in your mind, whoa, that's 11 bucks for those bus tokens.  And so what I'm trying to say is with a bus pass, it's unlimited rides, you know, so so you can get on just countless times. But but the city council here is is obviously good at dealing with numbers and mathematics. So let's do the math real quick just for a second. If if if I had to work a full time job, 40 hour work week, eight hours a day, five days a week, that would mean 10 bus tokens per week to get to my job. OK, just for Monday through Friday, not including weekends. And that would be $11 per week for going to and from work. That that's a total of approximately $44 a month.   And so that's $44 a month. But the bus passes are $48 a month. And when you know, most people, when they're figuring it out in their head, they're saying, wait a minute, I'd much rather go with tokens than with a bus pass. Well, I'm trying to say that if we want to save the bus service in this town and and save it so that you guys won't have to constantly haggle over it every single year when the budget comes up, if we would start promoting and advertising and really getting it ingrained into the citizens of this town, that bus passes are the end thing. They are the hip way to go. If we go with bus passes and either phase out tokens or raise them to a high enough cost that it is counterproductive to buy tokens, you'd be amazed with, you know, I can't help you solve the current budget crisis. I wish I could. I wish I could just reach in my wallet and hand you guys five hundred million bucks or something and wipe your debt right out. But I can't do that. But in the long haul, I can help you by sharing with you the drastic need to go passes. And and I'll give you one quick example before I go. Let's say you don't have time. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. OK, thank you. I appreciate it. Renee Sousha. First of all, I would like to thank the gentleman that just spoke and I'd like to encourage other people that are watching on TV tonight that anytime they want to speak at one of these meetings, they need to come to the third floor of City Hall. I thought that gentleman did a great job for his first time. There are just a few things I wanted to point out this evening. I read the paper yesterday, too. And I think that the headlines that stated that the mayor is keeping the tax rate the same is a false statement. If the stormwater fee was set at zero, the $1.1 million the fee will raise next year would come from the general fund, or should I say the property taxes. So really implying that our taxes are frozen is somewhat foolish. And secondly, I'd like to point out that I recently was given a list of 62 salaried non-elected employees. Of these 62 employees, 15 of those had salaries over $70,000. And I think that's great because you need to earn a salary like that if you're going to pay the property taxes in Sheboygan. But what disturbed me about the list was that 24 of these employees had an asterisk next to their salary. And when you look at what the asterisks meant, it means that they're earning more than the top of their salary range. And I'm a little confused because in any other industry, most jobs have a salary range. And if you reach the top of the range, you're frozen there until the entire salary range shifts. So I'm not sure why you have one third of the employees on this list are earning more than the top of their salary range. I would suggest that you either adjust the salary range or decrease their salary. Lastly, I wanted to just make one more comment in regards to the article that I referred to the last time I spoke. The article ranked the Sheboygan metropolitan area, which includes the entire county of Sheboygan, as 12th highest in the United States of America for our property tax. Now, the data that was utilized came from the U.S. Census Bureau. And I'm not sure why Mayor Schramm would doubt this well-respected source of information. Yes, it was analyzed by the person that wrote the article, but the data came from the U.S. Census Bureau. I would think that the mayor should be irate that Sheboygan County, Sheboygan being the largest city in the county, would even hit this list. 12th highest in the United States is quite the embarrassment. I don't think anyone should settle for a frozen tax rate this year. I think that what you people should do is seek a 10% decrease in our property taxes. Thank you. Michael Werner? Sure you can. Well, he's on a public forum. He wants to be on a public forum. Yes, I did ask to speak on public forum, Your Honor. Your Honor, counsel, end of viewing public. Sometimes I should say there comes a time when you just have to say something and for me that time is now. Politics is one thing. The truth is another. I usually don't respond to ridiculous accusations, but a letter in today's press tripped my trigger. First off, the city of Sheboygan is not in terrible financial shape by any means. We have a double A bond rating. The highest a city our size can attain. You get a double A rating because you are financially sound and well run. Do we have some budget problems? Well, yes we do and we are addressing them. It's true that the marina did not live up to its expectations. However, it was a bold move that revitalized an area of our city that had been neglected by previous administrations. The economic benefit of our marina to local businesses and the jobs of those they employ are immeasurable. The marina has driven development along our riverfront all the way to Kiwanis Park and aided in the revitalization of the Ellis District. It's brought the true value of Lake Michigan to Sheboygan's future forward in a way that no previous effort has done. It is part of our city's master plan and it ties in with the future of our Lakeshore. As for Blue Harbor, we did lend 4 million to the developer and it will be repaid. That 4 million has leveraged over 45 million in additional value to the city's tax base for our future. And I'd like to make one more thing clear. There is no financial impact on the city of Sheboygan's 2004 or 2005 budget by the Blue Harbor project. There simply is not. In fact, there most likely will never be a negative impact on our budget from the Blue Harbor project. It should also be noted that the city has wisely set aside 2 million dollars as a hedge, a rainy day fund should any problems arise on the Blue Harbor project. Enough to take us through 2 years of hard time should it be needed and it is not likely it will be. Much different than a marina and a far better plan than the built-in of the taxpayers by the general split leather deal or the plaza 8 fiasco that added millions to our debt service in TIFF 1. Some facts on general split, city taxpayers had it stuck to them for 500,000 dollars. When general split closed its doors, it left sizable debts in its wake. Most of them the result of the ill-fated 1984 deal, the administration at the time used to lure them to Sheboygan. The city purchased the former Amira company building for 475,000 dollars and sold it to general split for a buck. The city's greatest loss related to the failure of the general split was an irretrievable loss of a 450,000 dollar loan to them that was part of the 1984 deal and we are not done yet. The building purchase and loan were purchased with block grant funds that could have been used elsewhere. With principal and interest, the loan totaled 495,000, $595, it was all lost including 23,078 dollars in city property tax dollars as well as 125,988 dollars in county tax dollars that were never retrieved. All of this from a previous administration that now is actively criticizing our current mayor and council makes you wonder the motivation. Now there's Plaza 8, remember that? I did not have time today to find out how many millions was spent on that fiasco. That as I've said before was a decade late and a dollar short. I did however find out how much it cost to remove Plaza 8. For removal of the bricks, repaving and finishing the bill was 871,000 dollars. Add to that the millions of cost to put it in. My point is quite simple. There is more going on here than meets the eye. Many people see it and most that I talk to do not like the assault on our city by self-serving interests that are currently in operation. Does the desired control city room tax dollars by non-elected persons ring a bell for anyone? It rings for me. Taxes, here's a little valuable information for you. In 1972, the tax rate per thousand in Sheboygan was $33.63. That is equivalent of $3,363 on a $100,000 home. In 1975, under the same local government, it rose to $38.23 per thousand. A $100,000 home would pay taxes of $3,823 for the same home. In 1984, under that same administration, the rate was $38.82 per thousand, $3,882 for a $100,000 home. In 1993, under the next administration, the rate was $41.52 per thousand. That would be $4,152 on a $100,000 home. In comparison, as of 2002, that same $100,000 home had a tax rate of $30.07, equaling a bill of $3,007, $875 less than 1984. What does this say? It says the current administration and most of this council have been doing a good job. Michael, your time's up too. Jamie Schramm. Good evening. Before I begin my comments, I would like to thank you for allowing me to speak with you and for sharing five minutes of your time. I have always considered a great honor to stand before you at what I'd like to think is the people's microphone. The late former U.S. President Harry Truman, when commenting on how to deal with political opposition, noted that he did not have to criticize them or offer harsh words. I quote, I will give them nothing but the facts and the truth, and they're only going to think that it's hell. Plignant words, especially now at a time when I have witnessed over the past several months a campaign launched from this, the people's microphone. It has not been a campaign of hope, opportunity, and progress, but rather of deception, diversion, and disrespect. Deception, diversion, and disrespect will prevalent in American politics, leads to the type of circus we are witnessing in California, and led to the many of the bitterly partisan decisions recently made in Madison. Decisions which are now leading local officials, not just in Sheboygan, but across the state in communities like Racine, Manitowoc, Green Bay, and Appleton to make tough choices.  I have watched friends graduate high school, college, start families, move away, and many have come back. It's because we embrace hope, opportunity, and progress, not deception, diversion, and disrespect. The campaign of deception, diversion, and disrespect launched from this microphone has been well organized. One need to look no further than the editorial page of the press to see its continued assault upon the values of our community, hope, opportunity, and progress, but it's easy to criticize when the cameras are on. For deception, diversion, and disrespect flourish when there exists an audience to pander to. I wonder if those engaged in this campaign of deception, diversion, and disrespect would find their cause so noble if no cameras were rolling. Hope, opportunity, and progress need no cameras. They always will triumph. Listen to the comments made here tonight and over the past several months. Discussion and disagreement are valuable tools in our democracy, but those who have engaged in this campaign of deception, diversion, and disrespect have offered no alternatives, no competing vision, just criticism. I suppose when one sees their role as criticizing and getting reaction, the only values to embrace our deception, diversion, and disrespect. One notable exception were the comments made by former Alderman Carl Taepo. When he spoke to you, he saw no need to criticize, but rather offered suggestions for reducing spending and saving dollars. Such remarks uplift the community and help to find real solutions to real issues we must face together. There are comments by two individuals which stand in stark contrast to hope, opportunity, and progress. Former Alderman Dosie Johnson stood before you at a recent meeting and made rather wild legal interpretations of the Blue Harbor Agreement. I almost felt compelled to call her and congratulate her on passing the Wisconsin State Bar Exam. Then I realized these were her unfounded interpretations. In fact, has anyone who has engaged in this campaign of deception, diversion, and disrespect passed the Wisconsin State Bar Exam, anyone here tonight with the exception of our respected city attorney, pass the Wisconsin State Bar Exam, the city of Sheboygan hired the legal assistance of Ann Kummer, of Corals and Brady, one of the most storied and respected law firms in our state to assist in negotiating of the Blue Harbor Contract. Apparently, passing the Bar Exam means nothing to those engaged in deception, diversion, and disrespect. Then there are the comments by Ms. Shusha. Is the owner of a local bed and breakfast she stood before you two weeks ago and lamented the high taxes in our community? This, from the same lady who earlier this year filed notice in order to have the option to sue the very community she cares so deeply about. She so much shares the pain of an unreasonable tax burden with her fellow residents. She is going to make their tax dollars pay legal fees to defend the city in a lawsuit that would put tax dollars in her own pocket. Deception, diversion, and disrespect. To uphold my own ideals, however, I must offer alternatives. I offer hope, opportunity, and progress. The very values that have in the past, currently, and will in the future, make our community great. Hope, opportunity, and progress shed light upon the evil darkness of deception, diversion, and disrespect. And my campaign is not one for an elected office, has no one's name attached, but rather seeks to strengthen, unify, and uplift our community. I'm quite certain the voices of deception, diversion, and disrespect will continue to be present in the coming months, however, so will I. I will continue offering hope, opportunity, and progress.  Again, thank you. God bless. Sit. All in one name. Okay. All in one. It's time I'll make it not a question of a statement. I just want to know if the city will please send a letter to Mr. Capitul, seeing the fact that he has a beneficiary of our present budget and block grant funds, I believe, for 21 or $22,000, seeing the fact he believes in cutting those factors, which are not crucial to running the city. I don't think people at home are aware that he didn't specify that in his statements for the fact that he and his organization are benefactors of what we are doing, yet he is so quick to criticize and point out the issues of how poorly run this budget has been. So thank you. Thank you. Okay. Before we get into the consent agenda, we do have the budget before us. So I'd like to address that. And some of the department heads have some comments to make. So please just sit back. Bear with me for a few minutes, and we'll get into the budget. Since given my state of the city address in April, it has become clear that the 2004 city budget would be one of the most challenging any of us as elected officials would have to address. In anticipation of this, I extended an invitation to anyone with ideas, suggestions, and solutions for our budget to come forward. It has been nearly six months since I made the invitation, initial invitation. As I present my budget proposal to you this evening, the time for decision making and leadership has arrived. Combined with a near a million dollar cut in state shared revenues and transportation needs, there continues to be significant increases in the cost of employee health insurance, a demand for city services, and a desire to hold down the cost to all of us as taxpayers. Many of our wants and desires conflict with what we can afford. And we have reached the point where leaders must act to affirm the values of our community. Above all else, the budgetary proposal I put before you this evening affirms the values of Sheboygan. The services we have come to expect whether they be in a public safety through our police and fire departments, having our garbage picked up, our streets cleaned, having an exceptional library or a solid park system will continue. Changes will be seen in how services are provided. However, the basic commitment to our residents quality of life remains as strong as ever. Second, faced with a reduction of nearly a million dollars in state aides, I spent countless hours speaking with those in Madison stating the case for restoring shared revenue to local municipalities. I also clearly expressed concern over punishing communities such as Sheboygan that have shown fiscal restraint. In fact, during the shared revenue debates, Gannett News Service cited Sheboygan's reduction in spending of 3.4 percent over a five-year period as an example for others to follow. We must continue to lead the way. Thus, just as many businesses in our communities have faced dwindling revenue in a weak economy and many households have been impacted, we as a city cannot ignore the economic realities we share. I have proposed difficult and challenging cuts in city spending and staffing. Personnel reductions occur in both the management and the union ranks. Many of these are good people who happen to be unfortunate enough to work for the city in a time when we are faced with decreasing revenues. We are grateful for their efforts and to those who will continue providing our city its fine level of services. I will make one point very clear. While these staffing reductions will change the manner in which services are provided, at no time do these reductions jeopardize anyone's safety, health, or overall well-being of our community. Third, because difficult decisions remain in this budget proposal and because of my desire to acknowledge the economic times we face, I proposed an assessed tax rate which remains on change from the previous year. This equates to a zero increase in the property tax rate for the city's portion and I repeat for the city's portion of the property tax. This proposal was well below the self-imposed caps approved earlier this year by the Common Council and less than the property tax freeze proposed which was rejected in Madison. I have heard our citizens in this budget is the end results of their wishes. This was accomplished even after the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel raided Sheboygan and I repeat raided Sheboygan, fifth lowest in our region for property tax rate increases since 1997 and after expansion management gave us the highest ranking, five star for business relocation. When faced with economic uncertainty, many look to us as government leaders to stimulate economic development. Our affirmation of increased opportunity was realized with the approval and current construction of Blue Harbor. Hundreds of our residents employed in the construction industry are currently working very hard on this project. Additionally, 300 to 350 permanent jobs will be created upon this completion. The implementation of this massive project which will be funded through the TIFT district while holding the line on the city's portion of local property tax is truly exemplary. I would like to give a brief departmental summary of the impacts of my budget. Mayor's office, a minus 9.74 reduction less than the original request. The mayor's budget reductions required having one position remain vacant for four to five months following a retirement. This vacancy would necessitate either outsourcing or reassigning of city liability claims, investigation, loss control. City subrogation and restitution recovery. Supervision of TV8 operations, charter communications agreements, and re-franchising negotiations. Review of department budget requests, city representative at Bay Lakes Regional Plan Commission and the Fourth of July responsibilities. City clerk, 13.8% reduction. The 30 clerk's budget reduced one full-time position that will be vacant by a future retirement. The duties of that position will be split between other employees in that department. Human resource, 8.3%. The human resource budget was reduced substantially in various operating accounts including supplies, training, and travel accounts. Appropriations in several accounts were eliminated including conferences. City attorney, 5.68%. The city attorney's budget adjustments include reducing two full-time positions to 37 hours a week. Assessors, minus 10% to reduction in assessor's budget will require the elimination of one full-time position at mid-year. The impact will include limiting the public service counter and phone service to four hours per day. The long-range impact will likely cause a delay in the revaluation scheduled to be completed in 2006. Finance, 5.4%. The finance department reductions will require the elimination of two part-time positions and the reduction of two full-time positions to part-time. The impact will include the elimination of the duplicating operations, reduction in ability of information systems to provide internal support and reduction in services by a county division to city departments. City development and building inspection and senior center. 7.9%. By the way, these are decreases. The planning and development budget adjustments will include the reduction of one full-time position to part-time. The building inspection budget adjustments will also include the reduction of one full-time position to part-time. Budget reductions in the senior center will be accomplished through closing the facility for half day a week and corresponding reduction in employee hours. Police department, 4.7% reduction. The police department budget reductions include not filling two current vacant positions for sworn officers, the elimination of four part-time positions and not filling one full-time clerical position upon retirement. The reduction staff levels may necessitate prioritization of responses to service calls. Lower priorities will be responded to when officer is available and minor incidents may not be responded to. Response times may be delayed and the front desk hours will be reduced. Fire department, minus 4.7%. The fire department's budget reductions include eliminating three positions. This would require placing an emergency vehicle out of service for a portion of the year. The reduction could impact the completion of the fire inspections. Elimination of these positions could compromise the creation of station 5 on the south side. Public works, and this is the whole public works department. It's very large, several departments combined into one, 13.8%. The public works reductions include eliminating a supervisory position, not filling two entry labor positions. The resident drop-off site operation would be reduced to only accepting yard waste at the municipal service building. The majority of summer seasonal part-time employees will be eliminated. In addition, seven part-time positions would be eliminated. The appropriations reduction in the DPW operations totaled $603,000. Library appropriations were funded at the maintenance of effort level by council action, and the library has already reduced service hours in its employees' work week to meet its budget shortfall. Transit, transit appropriations were frozen by the common council's action, and the parking utility commission is considering service cutbacks to meet its budget shortfall. In addition, I fully support continuing discussion with the city employees' unions on potential concessions and labor contracts that could lessen the impacts of the reductions in city services and employment. I would also support a one-year amendment to the non-representative plan that would allow for concessions similar to any negotiated in the employee labor contracts. There will be plenty of opportunity in the coming weeks to discuss this budget proposal. I must both caution and advise you that although your changes are welcome, and I repeat, your changes are welcome, any additions must be met with equal offsets to maintain the 0% increase in assessed tax rate. Disagreements and discussion will occur, however. It must not lead to the abandonment of our community's values. The commitment to basic services and the quality of life enjoyed by all our community remain intact in my proposal, and must remain intact in our budget. The voices of competing interests will appeal for our attention and our dollars. However, this is the city of Sheboygan's budget belonging to us all and affecting an entire community. I take pride in this proposal for its reaffirms our community's greatness, its core values, and looks to the future as being filled with hope, opportunity, and progress. Be courageous. Stand up for our values in past this budget. Thank you. Department heads, did you have anything you would like to say? Tom? Just to add a few words that this has been the longest budget process that I've ever been through. The public works department worked closely with the mayor's office and with the support of the public works committee and the involvement of the entire public work staff. We were able to meet these guidelines without any significant change in the services we provided the community. I'd like to assure that to everybody. Thank you, Tom. Ed? Hi, I'm Ed Serk, director of human resources for the city. And I can't resist the opportunity to address one of the speaker's previous statements about our salaries. On an annual basis, we review department heads salaries which through a consulting offer called Carlson Detman and we use 11 comparable cities and counties. And as we all know, our salaries are subject to public record and in fact, I think last month, there was a long discussion on WHPL about the results of the survey and almost all cases, our salaries were at midpoint or below comparable cities. And it's met a public record or someone would like to see the survey. We'll be glad to present it to them. But I did have to address the statements made earlier. In addition, we've been, I went to the city for four years now and my budget has been reduced, reduced every year. And I think most city employees, department managers are concerned about keeping costs down and we are concerned about the welfare of the city. Thank you. Ed, can I ask you one question? Where are you with working negotiations or talking to the union reps from all this? Yeah, we can't go into too much detail, but we have talked with a couple of the unions and continued conversation. But there appears to be a willingness to do some good sessions on new contracts and past contracts. So, and as you mentioned earlier, the nonrepresentative group has been willing to make some good sessions also. Thank you. Rich, Paulette. Rich Gebhardt, finance director for the city. In recent meetings that I've had with other cities, it is obvious that most cities are experiencing similar problems and most are striving also for a low levy or a low tax rate despite those problems. And statewide, the each city's budget deficit seems proportional to the size of the city, such as Green Bay is facing a $5 million budget deficit, but it is still striving for a low tax increase. The wealthier communities which receive lower amounts of shared revenue payments are experiencing lower impacts. And conversely, the cities that have previously received the higher shared revenue payments are now receiving the largest decreases in state aid and therefore having the greatest budget impacts and for their size cities. And these are the less wealthy communities that can least afford the burden. The cities near our size are anticipating similar number of jobs that are being impacted such as applet and plans on over 30 layoffs. With the city's budget, with the mayor's recommendations, we're looking at a general fund budget increase of about $171,000 with his recommendations, only about a half percent increase. And there will be other adjustments that will need to be addressed through the committees through this process, especially with the revenues. An example of it is we received notice today from the Department of Transportation that the transportation aids will decrease approximately $100,000. We had anticipated a decrease of $50,000. We knew there would be some level of decrease, but it was twice what we expected. So we'll have to work all through these. This is an ongoing process and through October we'll have to address each one of these whenever it comes up. Currently, the tax levy with the mayor's recommendations and the proposed revenue adjustments will increase $116,000 or a six-tenths of one percent. This is a decrease of $251,000 in the levy from the original request that had a two-percent increase. I placed a memo on your desk and it was titled the proposed tax levies for local taxing jurisdictions. And this memo shows the current proposed tax levies for the local governments that are on the tax bill. And these are the total levies for each one of the entities. After the levies are finalized, they will be distributed to each government through the equalized value ratio that they go through each year. But it shows the trend, I guess, that we're looking at here right now and I guess I just want to bring that to your attention so you're prepared for that and you understand what we in the taxpayers are looking at when we finalize the process. You have to keep in mind that the city is one-third of the tax bill and the concern we're expressing here is for the total tax rate. And so even if the city does attain the zero percent increase, they're more than likely it will be some level of increase in the total tax rate from the other jurisdictions.  Like the one gentleman said, we're going to increase taxes. We're holding our portion down, but this shows that the taxes will go up and it is not the city's fault that you're going on. Yes, even referred to, the levies going up less than 1%, just around a half percent, but with an increase in the sus values, which we have not received yet from the state, but we're approximating that they're probably about three quarters of a percent that we'll be around a zero increase in the tax rate. I cannot really speak directly to each one of these entities right now because we do not have the sus values. They have not distributed their levies to us. I could say in general, though, that the other jurisdictions are looking between a five and six percent increase in their total levies. As that comes down to us, distributed, offset by the sus values, and with our zero percent blended in as the one-third, we may be looking at about a 3% increase in the total tax roll. So when you look on your bill, on a portion of your bill, when you get taxed for city, make sure you look on for city. These other ones will be going up here at the house. Thank you. Paul Lemons, Stefan. Actually, I kind of wanted to get rich before you sat down. A little levity, I'll tell you that a coworker of mine today stopped me and he knows we're working on the budget and he said, you know, back 30 years ago, I bought my house, he said, $500. I paid property taxes every year and now it's $2,500. He said it's gone up five times. And he stopped and he waited and he paused and he said, but the value of the house has gone up 12 times, he said. So if you want to keep increasing my taxes, as long as you keep increasing the value of my house by two and a half times, which are increasing the taxes, by, he said, I've got no problem with that. And I think that's what people are forgetting here, you know, is you can take numbers and Mr. Capetillo and Ms. Shusha, I mean, certainly some of their numbers are get-on and they're perfect and I agree with them. But when you start talking percentages, I know you don't want to get into this and I won't either, but, you know, Mr. Capetillo was big on talking tax levies here, but you know, when we talked to the man from the press, Bob Petra, you know, the county, they talk about percentages. You know, you've got to look at apples and apples and oranges and oranges. If you want to talk tax levies, then let's talk to city of Sheboygan tax levy versus the Sheboygan area school district versus LTC versus Sheboygan county and you put them all together and you see it. You know, when one's talking the total dollars and the other one's talking percentages, you can see where it's probably true that the Sheboygan metro area is, we can see it right here. It's not our problem. You're talking to the wrong group of people. Have you talked to the county board lately? Have you been to a school board meeting? I'm not kicking on them because maybe this isn't what they're going to live with. This is their proposal of every faith in the school board in the county that they're probably going to come down. But if you look at this document, you're talking to the wrong group if you're worried about your taxes going up. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Chief Sager, would you like to microphone please? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Members of the Common Council, I come before you with concern. I support what's been discussed tonight here to a certain limit. As a member of the fire service going on my 32nd year, my job was to protect the citizens in the last 31 years and I've done that as a firefighter and a captain and I am before you as the chief of the department. I come before you in public safety. I can tell you that across the board rays of 5% hit my department hard, 5% of my employees. My budget is 97% of basically wages and benefits. The so-called fat in the budget the fire department's been cut over the last seven or eight years through Chief Rice was held to a 1% increase as many in many years, I think zero. In my three years now, I've been held to a zero, a 1% and now a 5% reduction. I have to just go back to Mayor Schramm's remarks about the safety, everything's around the same. It's not going to be around the same. I'm telling you here up front. So you hear it from me right now that the operation should bring a fire department because we're down so paired so thin already that there are going to be times, many times when we'll not be able to operate at what I feel is the safety level of the citizens of Schrodingen. It is operating fine right now because whenever we send a truck out of an area, there's another truck there to respond to a medical call, EMS call, a fire call. That is not going to happen in the future. The three people that you're cutting is $150,000. I feel that $150,000 jeopardizes the citizens of Schrodingen and I will put my name on it that something's going to happen in the next year where we will either save somebody's life, save somebody from further harm or kept property value down because we will not have by the state mandates and state law to be able to operate where we are. I know that the public has spoke that they want to have restrictions on raising taxes. I understand that. I just want you to let you know as the department head of the Schrodingen fire department, I'm working with the mayor to come up with a 5% cut. I didn't do it willingly. I'm not happy about it, but I did it because that was what is my mandate. But I also come before you to think about the future of the state of Schrodingen and public safety and let you know that we're gonna work as best we can. But I can tell you that I'm not happy about it and I think it's gonna hurt the state of Schrodingen. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Anyone else? Chief? Good evening. First off, I'd like to actually applaud the mayor's lead in attempting to keep the cost of city government down for our citizens. However, I do have several concerns. As a public manager, first off, I as many of our department heads feel it's an honor to lead our department. I believe that I as many others have a passion to lead policing to the next era. We have taken a look at our department. I would agree with Mark that these effects will have an effect or these reductions will have an effect in our department. They will have a reduction in services and a level and the types of services. We had some, we had several meetings with the mayor. We walked away from some of these meetings probably more tense than I ever had with the mayor in the many, many years that I've dealt with city employment. However, what I do look forward to, this is not a simple solution that we gave to the mayor. Our number, we did not meet our 5% reduction. I do not believe we can safely. We were less than 5%. This is not a simple matter. And I look forward to you asking me questions, allowing me to provide my input to give answers or what I think will happen if in fact we're held to some of these cuts.  However, there are, if I was to say no concerns on my part, I would not be speaking honestly. There are some concerns and I look forward to next round in several weeks that you say that we will be discussing this because I would like to avoid some of my concerns. Thank you. Thank you. Any other department head? Any other department, Marie? I'm Marie Ellis, the assessor for the city. And I just would like to make a short comment that this has been a very difficult process this year with the budget. In addition to the individual budget cuts in staffing and in budget dollars, we've also had to incorporate additional expenses. For instance, in my budget, I've had to add $15,000 that has been mandated by the state for the manufacturing assessments. They are now billing all the cities, towns and villages for doing the assessments for manufacturing properties. And for us that was $15,000 that we had to add. And that is based on the equalized valuation of the manufacturing properties which changes every year so that amount will change every year. So just wanted to let you know that in addition to the cuts we've had additional expenses that we've had to be concerned with. Thank you. Thank you, Marie. Marie is exactly right. If that other 15,000 was cut out of her budget, it'd probably be about a 9% reduction. So thank you. Paulette, did you want to speak yet or? I'm Paulette Enders, the director of planning and development and I'll just reiterate what the other departments have said is that it was a tough process. We had a tough time coming up with any types of reductions in a small department such as ours. And it ended up being primarily staff reductions. And then also the senior center, they'll have to close Friday mornings because of that. And then that means that not only will some of the programs for the seniors be cut, but in addition, some of the hours for those employees will also be reduced. Thank you. Thank you. City Clerk. Yes, I was fortunate, if you wanna call it fortunate that I have an employee who wants to retire at the beginning of the year. Without her retirement, I don't know what I will have done in my office because just about everything we do is state mandated. We have a very large election next year with presidential. They moved the presidential primary to February where I usually save money because it's a very small election. Now it's gonna be a city-wide election, all four elections next year. My election budget has gone up more than what I've saved in my City Clerk's budget for next year. There was a gentleman that had spoken one time here saying that a mandate was a suggestion. He's wrong. The state tells you, you're gonna do this, it's a mandate, you're gonna do it. An election, almost every line item in my election budget is state mandated. I have to do it. I cannot not do it. I feel poorly that I couldn't do more to help out in this situation. Yes, I did it in my City Clerk budget, but my elections budget blew it all and I feel bad about it, but there's nothing I can do about it. We have to hold elections, we have to do what we have to do, but we will persevere. Thank you. It seems like a confession time. I just want to say I've always been very grateful and proud to be an elected official of the city of Sheboygan. As far as budgets, this was the most difficult budget process in the 17 years I've worked for the city and I don't remember any that have been fun. Seems like we've been cut every year. I'll make it my role and commitment to whatever the budget is for our office and it's being cut to do the best job and provide the best legal service we can for the Alderman and for the department heads and for the citizens. I am concerned, it's not just this year, but over a number of years that our training budget has been cut, our ability to attend conferences has been cut. I'm not a person with, our department doesn't have trucks and a lot of fancy equipment. What we rely on is knowledge and training experience and in the federal scheme, the federal area, we're suffering in that we're not getting stand up to date on what's happening at the federal level with federal legislation that impacts the city and the employees and the taxpayers. I'm able to go to a state municipal attorneys institute once a year that is very good on state law but really doesn't provide much assistance on federal legislation and what's happening in federal cases and so forth. But we deal with that and we try to do the best we can with the resources we have. And as I say, we're just, and I'm grateful to work for the Alderman and the department heads and the citizens of the city of Sheboygan and we'll continue to do so as long as I can regardless of what our budget is. Well, again, you've heard what the department heads had to say about the budget. What we went through, it's been a tough budget. We're looking forward to working with them, working with the council and getting to where we have to be on this and holding the 0% increase on the tax rate. Alderman Stephan. Yeah, I forgot one thing earlier. I spoke to the mayor earlier. I don't know if we have to actually act on it or not but we talked about maybe having the public hearing on the proposed budget on November 17th. You can't, you know, we don't want to have them both the same day I guess and whether it's the 10th. Right, well, that's what I'm saying. What we have to do to this to change that, to move it up so we don't have public input in the vote the same night. It can be better to let them speak. Well, we can't move it back. I know, but why wouldn't we be able to move it up? Move the hearing up one week and move it up one week. That way, you know, we're going to hear ideas. We're going to, you know, take them into account and hopefully vote the next week. I think it's pretty much up to the council. I would suggest it. I don't know if we can make an amendment or what. I don't have a year before me. We'll have to review your request but I know there is a statute of requirements on the timing after it is before a council. We have to do a publication and notice of hearing and it can't be published so many days before the hearing or you have to have so many days after the publication before you can have the hearing. So there's some time requirements of this statement. I guess my goal is just not to have the hearing in the vote the same night. Let's look into that. We'll get back to you on that one. And we, yes, we'll try to get back to you after the review. Okay, moving on. What's going to happen with the budget? It'll go to finance, the RCs from standing committee to council referred to finance after the committee's review of the budget. Each one of you should be reviewing your own portion of the budget. Public protection and safety will probably be doing, well they will be doing police and fire. On here, Mayor's ROs to finance 10-6. That's this evening. RCs from standing committees to council referred to finance 10-20. We need those on the next committee. Standing committee reports on your departments. Finance RCs to council 11-3. And the budget resolutions to council 11-3. Denialize over to 11-24. But that's where we're at with the budget. Okay. If anyone needs a copy of that, that'll give you a copy. All right. With that, consent agenda. Everything 13-1 through 13-31. Except, 13-20, I'd like to refer to public works. Okay, no problem with that. And 13-17, we'd like to have a committee of the whole on that, for SAVE American Manufacturing Alderman Warner. You will set up a committee at whole, correct, and Jerry's here tonight.  Thank you. Okay, everything besides 13-1 through 13-31. Under discussion. You wanna make a motion first? Yeah, I need a motion. I'm sorry. Alderman Graf. Thank you, Your Honor. Also, 13-10 should be referred to finance and not be passed this evening. Okay. City plan recommendation on approving the capital improvements program and that should go to finance and not be acted on this evening. Correct. So, taking that into consideration, then all other items on the consent agenda, I would move that our C's be accepted and adopted, our O's be accepted and filed, that we pass the resolution and the general, we pass the resolutions and the general ordinance. Move to the second, are all our O's be accepted and filed, all our C's accepted and adopted, resolutions and ordinances be put upon their passage. Under discussion. Alderman Warner. Under discussion, Your Honor, on 13-6. I'd like to make a comment. This is a communication from senior police officer, Jeff Huse of the Huntington Beach Police Department, expressing his gratitude and appreciation to the various officers of the Sheboygan Police Department. Officer Huse was recently in Sheboygan and traveled with members of the Sheboygan Police Department to view the September 11th ground zero, remember in ceremonies. He was warmly accepted as a fellow police officer and former Wisconsin, Wisconsinite. He goes on to say that he thinks we should be proud of the fine employees that you have as representatives of the Sheboygan Police Department, the ambassadors of the city of Sheboygan, as well as the state of Wisconsin. And he wishes to express his gratitude to Sergeant Bob Kotolski, Patrolman Rick Alvka, Patrolman Brian Krieger, Sergeant Tim Tarkowski, and Patrolman Dean Wenland. And he states that he feels he's formed a good friendship with these people in a short time and would enjoy other opportunities to work with them in a law enforcement profession. Thank you. Chief, congratulations, department. Okay, if there's no other discussion, Pat, would you call the roll? Berg, Boney, Doyle, Graf, Manny, Moody, Perez, Rinfleisch, Stefan, Ben-Agrin, Vanderweal, Wongerman, Warner, Weninger, Bauman, 15 ayes. Motion carried. 1332 and 33 to be referred. 1334 and 35 will lie over. 1336 through 55 to be referred. 1356 by Alderman Graf, authorizing the ratifying redemption of 3,585,000 sewer system refunding revenue bonds. Alderman Graf. Yeah, I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Moved and seconded resolution be put upon its passage under discussion. Hearing none, would you call the roll? Boney, Doyle, Graf, Manny, Moody, Perez, Rinfleisch, Stefan, Ben-Agrin, Vanderweal, Wongerman, Warner, Weninger, Bauman, Berg, 15 ayes. Motion carried. 1357 lies over. 1358 through 61 to be referred. 1362 by Public Protection of Safety, recommending denying beverage operator license 5518, 6143 and 6144 as the applicants fail to appear before the committee as requested. Alderman Doyle. Thank you, Your Honor. I move to accept and adopt the report of committee. Moved and seconded, accept and adopt DRC. Alderman Doyle. Thank you. Is Ms. Davy, Mr. Malowitz or Mr. Mathis here to speak in their behalf tonight, in their behalf? They're not here, Your Honor. If there's no other discussion, would you call the roll? Doyle, Groth, Manny, Moody, Perez, Rinfleisch, Stefan, Ben-Agrin, Vanderweal, Wongerman, Warner, Weninger, Bauman, Berg, Boney, 15 ayes. Motion carried. 1363 by Finance, relative to recommendations of the Strategic Fiscal Planning Committee for the 2004 budget, Alderman Groth. Your Honor, I would move that the RCB accept and adopt it. Moved at the RCB accept and adopt it under discussion. Alderman, Stefan. Yeah, I don't know if you want to take, are we taking these all together? I assume so, everything on there. Okay, I guess I would propose an amendment to discontinue number six.  It's moved in second and discontinued number six. Correct. To my knowledge, that's the only charitable contribution in the budget, in the general fund.  They do get money there, they've got money last year. I'm sure they'll put it in again.  They have nothing against them whatsoever, but I just don't feel we have the ability to do charitable contributions to them. And I think that we should discontinue this and let them apply for community block grant funds. So I would, that's my amendment. We'll vote on that separately. Alderman Graf. Your Honor, from finance department, this was a recommendation that it should continue to support the Boys and Girls Club. Basically because it is a contribution that we are giving to them, which helps develop good citizens. You know, we always talk about how there's so many bad kids and things like this. This is one program that is working, that has helped developing future citizens of the city of Sheboygan to be law abiding and to no right from wrong, basically. And it's a program, like I said, that's working and it's a contribution that we should still continue to make. Alderman Warner. I thank you, Your Honor. I too will support passing the entire report of committee. Yes, when I think of the Boys and Girls Club, I think it is something that is a stop gap in some of the problems we have in our city at this time. Gives the kids in our city a place to go with the drug problems we have and all the other budget cuts we are making at this time. I think we have to provide something for them to have a place to go in my mind. This is something that will help curb truancy problems and with kids with family problems, it gives them a place to get together with their peers where they get instruction and help in a lot of ways. And I think there's some things we still have to do. We're not rolling up the streets of Sheboygan and shutting everything down. And I would hope that we would support the Boys and Girls Club on this RC. Thank you. Alderman Doyle. Thank you, Your Honor. I agree with Alderman Steffen. This is an outstanding program but there's probably 50 to 100 outstanding programs out there serving the community through United Way and community development block grants and so on. And it's hard to say no to organizations like this but I think we need to just have a uniform policy of not funding these kinds of things and concentrate on police protection, fire and the main operations of the city and not get involved with the charities. Alderman Vanderwill. Thank you, Your Honor. I agree that this is one of the 14 on the community block grant list that is deserving money. But I guess I'd like to know how much we're gonna get, how much we would give them out of the general fund. If Rich could answer that or if it's written down. 19,000. Okay. Thank you. Alderman Bonet. Thank you, Your Honor. This is a program which has truly been something that's coincided with our city and our efforts. I think it's something if we look at the longer. Yes. I know he's very confused himself on this because he's under committee. Should he, is it appropriate for him to be speaking on this? Is that the one question of some kind of interest to say to Alderman, is that the case? I'm gonna abstain from the vote but I'm not gonna, I can speak on the vote. I'm gonna abstain from the discussion as well. Okay. Thank you. Very good. Alderman Perez. Thank you, Your Honor. I guess I'm a little confused now. We're voting not to give $19,000 to the Boys and Girls Club. That's his recommendation. Out of the general fund. And then we're also voting to close the senior citizen center. And that comes out of the general fund too. But we're only voting on number six. I realize, I realize. Okay, okay. What I wanted to say is that I'll support that motion because I agree with Alderman, both Alderman had said that there's plenty of other organizations that can provide funding but I'd like to also, after that, pull item number four out and go have a separate vote on that. Alderman Stephan, did you, okay. Okay, roll call, please. This is to eliminate number six so that there would be no contribution to the Boys and Girls Club. Graf? No. Manny? Aye. Moody? Aye. Perez? No. Renflash? An aye vote would be to delete it from contribution. Is that the way you wanted to vote? You just spoke the other way. No, he voted, he voted, he voted well. He's. Okay. Renflash? Stephan? Aye. Denakren? No. Vanderweal? Aye. Wongerman? No. Warner? No. Weninger? No. Bauman? Aye. Berg? Aye. Buonee? Doyle? Eight ayes, six noes, one abstention. Motion carried. Okay, before we move on to the document then, Alderman Perez, do you have something you wanna discuss here? Yes, and I thank you, Your Honor. And I guess I'm looking at the wrong document. I pulled out 1238 from last time where it talks about closing the senior center on Fridays. That's the one I wanted to pull out. I'm here. And I would ask that, whether we don't close it on Fridays, I would ask that we use that money, the $19,000 to keep the senior center open on Fridays. This is an opportunity that senior citizens have to come together and socialize and be a part of the community in a major way that they're able to, in the senior center, plays a huge role in our community. So I'd hate to have the senior center close on Fridays. So I'd like to pull it out for a vote, a separate vote. That would be for half day, correct? Correct, Paulette? Half day, I'm ready.  Half a day. We have to have a second. I need a second. Second. Move to the second hand. Under discussion, hearing none, would you call the roll, please? Now we don't need a roll. I only need a roll because of the abstention, unless they want a roll call. I wouldn't, so we know where. Oh, excuse me, Alderman Doyle. Just a point of clarification, if that one is changed, that's the cut that the senior center is using can meet their mayoral guidelines. Won't that upset the whole Apple Carver? Am I confused? It'll affect the agreement that Paulette has with Maryland for the distribution of the money for the budget. And she would have to go back and use another choice as her force cut then, which would not be to her advantage. Correct. Alderman Warner. Thank you, Your Honor. So what we're doing by this is we're pitting the kids that go to Boys and Girls Club against the seniors that go to the senior center by design, I was guessed by some. And to me, I find that a little bit ridiculous. The senior center is doing its job to help the city with its budget. We give them plenty of money every year, and they're closing for a half a day. A half a day. Think about it. They should close for a half a day. We're losing police officers, we're losing firefighters. We're not giving $19,000 to the youth in this community. The senior center can afford to close for a half a day. They'll just have to make other arrangements for the programs or change some of their schedules or perhaps start paying a dollar for each visitor or something. But on this point, I think it's a mistake. I think we should allow this document to go forward. Alderman Groff. Thank you, Your Honor. Just to reiterate what some people said, Marilyn Omi was at the finance committee meeting and she mentioned that they had no problems. Closing this, it wouldn't result in, I believe, she has got one class that has 30 people in that would not be able to have things, or two separate classes that those would be eliminated, but they could be done on some other day. And so this should really stand as it is. I feel as you know, and as everybody else was mentioned before by Alderman Doyle, that this helped her make her 5% cut that she was told to do. Chris. Pat, would you call her O please? No, I vote would be. To delete number three and keep the senior citizen center open all day on Friday. Okay, and no vote would be to close it. To leave it like it is. Manny. No. Moody. No. Perez. Aye. Rinclaish. Stefan. No. Van Akron. No. Vanderweel. No. Wongerman. No. Warner. No. Berg. No. Bonnet. No. Doyle. No. Graf. No. Two eyes, 13 nose. Motion carried. No, lost. It lost. Excuse me, motion failed. Okay, now, the rest of the document. Oh, maybe not so. Alderman Graf. I was just gonna make a motion as amended. That's right. Okay. The RC be accepted and adopted. Move to the second RC be accepted and adopted as amended. Who did the second? Who did it? Isaac. Now you don't need a roll though. No. Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion. Okay, motion carried. Thank you, Dan. 1364 will lie over. 1365 through 67 to be referred. 13, excuse me, 1231. Resolution by Alderman Graf. Winninger, Doyle, Bonnet. Transferring appropriations in a 2003 budget. Alderman Graf. Yeah, and I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Move to second to resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Moody, Perez, Rinfleisch, Steffen, Menachren, Danderwheel, Longerman, Warner, Wenninger, Bowman, Berg, Bonnet, Doyle, Graf, Manny. 15, aye's. Motion carried. 1244, general ordinance by Alderman Van Ackren, Wenninger, Manny, and Perez, amending the quote to adopt the new job description of the housing environmental inspector in the building inspections field. Alderman Van Ackren. Your Honor, I move the ordinance be put upon its passage. Move to second ordinance be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Perez, Rinfleisch, Steffen, Menachren, Danderwheel, Longerman, Warner, Wenninger, Bowman, Berg, Bonnet, Doyle, Graf, Manny, Moody, 15, aye's. Motion carried. 1246, general ordinance by Alderman Warner, Doyle, Moody, and Van Ackren, amending the quote to increase fees relating to false hold-up alarms in burglar and or intrusion alarms. Alderman Warner. Thank you, Your Honor. May I take 1257 along with that, please? Sure. On 1246, Your Honor, I make a motion to general ordinance be put upon its passage as well as 1257. Move to second general ordinance be put upon this passage on 1246 and 1257. Under discussion. Under discussion, Your Honor. 1246 is relative to an increasing fees related to false hold-up alarms and burglar or intrusion alarms. The fees are applicable on a yearly basis. In other words, they start over at the end of the year. For hold-up alarms, the increase for the first alarm is from $10 to $50. Obviously, when you have a false hold-up alarm, we don't have a whole lot of them, but when you do have one, the police respond at high speed and put themselves in jeopardy on citizens in order to get there because a hold-up at times can be very dangerous. In the second offense or second, I should say false alarm would be 75 and it increases in $25 increments up to the fifth alarm. With the sixth false alarm in a year for a hold-up alarm, it wouldn't start increasing by $50 per call. And for burglar or intrusion alarms, typically that's residential, but in those cases, they get four basically freebies in response to the alarms. And after that, the fees increase with the fifth fee at $50 and then the sixth would be 70 and the seventh would be $100 in a year. On document number 1257, this is an ordinance relating to residential daytime parking privileges so as to add the west side of the 2,500 and 2,600 blocks of North 7th Street as a cross from Memorial Medical Center, pursuant to the section 118, 191 of the Municipal Code Declaration of Necessity, the west side of the 2,500 and 2,600 blocks of North 7th Street is hereby included in the residential daytime parking privileges regulations. What this does is creates an impacted parking area where the residents pay $6 per month and they can park there for long-term and anyone else can only park there during business hours for two hours at a time before they have to move their car. With all the employees in the Medical Center has created a real problem for the people on the street. In public protection and safety, the Committee recommends passage of both of these documents. Can I have a discussion? Would you call it? Oh, Paul, I'm in. Right, pleasure. Thank you, Your Honor. I know we're trying to speed things up and perhaps do two things at one time and public protection and safety did recommend passage of both and I will probably vote for both, but I don't really see how they connect and why we should vote once for two completely separate issues. I would say that we would do roll call twice. That's fine, do it on any document. Okay. Pat, would you call the roll on 1246 and then on 1257? 1246, Rinflies? Aye. Stefan? Aye. Van Akron? Aye. Vanderweel? Aye. Wongerman? Aye. Warner? Aye. Weninger? Aye. Bauman? Aye. Berg? Aye. Bonet? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Graf? Aye. Manny? Aye. Moody? Aye. Perez? Aye. 15 Ayes. Motion carried. Now on 1257. Stefan? Aye. Van Akron? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Graf? Aye. Manny? Aye. Moody? Aye. Perez? Aye. Rinfly? Aye. 15 Ayes. Motion carried. Okay, 1368 by Alderman Bauman, Warner Graf, authorizing, filing and application with the DOT and authorizing the executing of the contract pertaining to grants for 2004 under the Federal Transit Act of 1964. Alderman Bauman. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd move that the resolution be put upon its passage. Move to the second resolution be put upon its passage. Under discussion. Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Van Akron? Aye. Vanderbilt? Aye. Longerman? Aye. Warner? Aye. Wininger? Aye. Bauman? Aye. Berg? Aye. Bonet? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Graf? Aye. Manny? Aye. Moody? Aye. Perez? Aye. Go to Finance. 1370 will go to Finance. 1371 be accepted and placed on file. Move to second to play 1371 on file. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. 1372 will go to Public Works. 1373 Public Works. 1374, salary and grievance. Steve, other matters? 1375 is an RO submitting communication received by the mayor from Jackie Bates relative to the hotels, motels, and BNBs in the city increasing their rates for the PGA tournament. And that was just a communication that can be accepted in a file. Under discussion, hearing none, all in favor? Opposed? Motion carried. 1376 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a claim from Don and Rosemary Vander Hooten for alleged damages to their basement when they had a sewer backup. Special committee on risk management. Before we go into closed session, hang on a minute. I just want to talk a little bit about this. And Mike Hutz might want to say a word on this. In recognition, cities and villages, mutual insurance company and knowledges, the city of Sheboygan has demonstrated excellence in compliance with recommended risk management, lost control, operational practices as set forth in SIMMICS, risk management assessment process, and has earned the 2003 awards of excellence, the Silver Award, for 81%. Michael, I'm understanding this is the highest award the city could receive as our size of city? Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to say that. That's the second highest award. OK. Second. We're close. SIMMICS is a group of 40 communities around the state who have banded together for access insurance coverage. And they monitor our lost control practice and risk management, how we handle claims, training, and so forth. There were only two cities who scored higher than Sheboygan in the evaluation. And that was an award we just received this past weekend. I think it's due to increased awareness by all our employees of safe work practices, lost control practices, and, of course, adequate supervision by our department heads and supervisors, and we're very appreciative of that award. Yes, I say thank you to all our city employees. Again, more accolades to our city show that we're doing very well. OK, Alderman Wallman. Excuse me, we have a closed session weekend. OK. Alderman Wallman. Thank you, Your Honor. There's a memorandum on each of the elder person's desks this evening. The Public Works Committee meeting generally starts at 5.15 this coming Thursday. Instead of us starting at 5.15, it will be starting at 6.30. The reason for that is because we would like to invite each of the elder persons and the press to go on a short citywide tour of all the Public Works projects, which are going on at this time. Should be ending before 6.30 at that point then, the committee meeting could start. And thank you. Thank you. Oliver Gough. Thank you, Your Honor. I would move that we convene in closed session under the provisions of section 19.85G. Are those constant statutes for the purpose of conferring with legal counsel for the city who is rendering oral advice regarding strategy to be adopted with respect to the tempest versus city lawsuits? Move to the second to go into closed session. Is there any objections? Hearing none, would you call the roll please? Vanderbilt? Aye. Longerman? Aye. Warner? Aye. Weninger? Aye. Bowman? Aye. Berg? Aye. Bonet? Aye. Doyle? Aye. Roth? Aye. Manny? Aye. Moody? Perez? Reinflate? Stefan? We will not be coming back into open session. So once we go into closed session, that will be a journey from closed session. Five-minute break, let everyone clear out, and we will be back.


asked on their consultation. I do not see any that ask a question on rights of appeal just for the record. There was one question about do we need to change a system to ensure everyone has a fair hearing, et cetera. Minister, you said that on this question you are following the recommendations of the independent review. The independent review only talked about third party right of appeal. In recommendation 46, for example, it recommended that there should not be a third party right of appeal. It did not ask any questions about appeals. It did not say anything about the applicants right of appeal. Can you confirm that, on the question of whether an applicants right of appeal should remain unreformed, the independent review did not say anything? I have not got the report in front of me, so I cannot say ye or nay to that. In your letter to the committee, you said that, for example, the idea that rights of appeal could be tied to consistency with the local development plan, compliance with the local development plan, you said that it would be very difficult to determine. As I understand it, prior to 2006, local planning authorities were required to notify ministers of decisions that represented a departure from the plan. There are a number of other, in planning policy 1, required planning authorities to notify ministers if they were minded to grant permission for a planning application where proposals represent a significant departure from the approved structure plan. Can I suggest that planning authorities are well used to making such judgments? I think that they did some of that in the past, but I will take Mr McNair and Ian in terms of some of that. I would also like to come back, convener. All that you say is true, but in arriving at the judgment whether authorities would advertise, for example, a development has been contrary to the development plan, it was certainly not clear cut. Particularly for major developments, you could find that the development is contrary to some policies in the plan, but generally consistent with the allocation, is it contrary to the development plan or not? I think that it is not the case that you can always make a straightforward judgment, so the reporters will have seen cases where an authority has refused an application because it is contrary to the development plan and found perhaps that it is not really contrary to the development plan, taking a different view. It is not a clear cut judgment that is black or white, and so that is another element of potential complexity around us. For the record, I would just like to say that the Government is not favourable to equal right of appeal, or composes for limited right of appeal. Beyond that, we are not in favour of removal of the applicant's right of appeal, as I outlined in my letter to the committee. Time is pressing, and I am hoping that members will follow up on that. We are about to close. I will just check, then, because our committee will have to sit down and look at the balance of evidence and decide what we decide in relation to this in more stage 1 report. If the committee does not favour an equal right of appeal, how do we know that there has been success in front-loading in relation to this bill, like we have ever made the point of the 2006 act? I mean not if I did everything that it wanted to do in relation to front-loading. We asked this to other witnesses as well, so in 10 years time that would be the new length of the local development plan. In 10 years time, how would we know what success looks like in relation to front-loading rather than equal right of appeal, and how would that be monitored if this bill is passed? No matter what we put into play, there will still be instances where people do not get the results that they want from planning. However, we will continue to monitor very closely how planning is operating and how our proposals turn out in terms of performance management, stakeholder satisfaction and how engaged people become. In terms of some other aspects of all of this, I think that the committee should also be made aware. If you move to a situation where you were to recommend limited or equal rights of appeal, you are going to have to look at how that will be resourced by local authorities, because there will be added costs to them in that regard. I have no idea what that resource burden would be, and that would divert resources as well from the up-front planning and collaboration that I and many others would like to see and could lead to a further gumming up of the system. On the issue of cost, what information can you share with the committee about the cost of developer-led appeals at the moment? We heard from industry witnesses a couple of weeks ago that developers, in terms of major applications, are spending £10,000, if not £100,000 on appeals, and sometimes legal costs are awarded against local authorities. The DPA reporter makes a decision on that, and I know in North Lanarkshire that that has run into £100,000. Have you looked at the cost-benefit side of that? I do not have those answers at the top of my head. I do not think anybody would expect me to keep that at the forefront. I will talk to the DPA and others and see what information we can provide on that front. Perhaps after three hours we can forgive you for not having that at the front of your head. It has been a marathon session. I think that it had to be ministered. Quite frankly, there is a lot in the bill. We have to scrutinise every part of it. I thank you and your officials for attending here today. We look forward to your response to our stage 1 report at one draft. I appreciate the opportunity, convener. Thank you very much. We now move to agenda item 2. We have some important legislation in front of us. The committee will consider negative instruments 46, 63, 64, 65, 74, 75, 76 and 77 as listed on the agenda. Those instruments are laid under the negative procedure, which means that their provisions will come into force unless the Parliament votes in motions to annul them. I can inform members that no motion to annul have been laid. I invite members whether they will get any comments in relation to the instruments before us, Mr Whiteman. I want to put on the record once again my dissatisfaction that we deal with important orders about tax and particularly the non-domestic rates of Scotland order 2018, which sets a rate of £48, and is the second highest tax-raising power that this Parliament has that we deal with via negative instruments, which I do not think allows for sufficient scrutiny. That is a consistent opinion that you have had, Mr Whiteman. You have put that on the official record here, what is now this afternoon. That said, I am wondering if the committee unanimously or otherwise, are we still going to agree to make no recommendations in relation to these instruments? Are we agreed to that? Of course, Mr Whiteman's points are now on the record. We now move to agenda item 3, which is in private. We now move into private session.