So I'd like to welcome you all to the Brooklyn Museum. My conversation about the whole range of topics, this exhibition is at the Brooklyn Museum as part of the celebration of the tenth year of the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art. I was asked to do an Egyptian exhibition that would be part of that celebration. I immediately thought of Karen's articles on this subject, so without any further ado. So my question is, how do you think that feminism has had an impact on Egyptology? So the invitation is nice to be in New York. And I didn't know this was going to be, because I don't read my emails or read them too fast. Does anyone else do that? Yeah. So I read my emails too fast, and I didn't know this would be a discussion.  I said, oh, that's so great. I love that. So we're sitting down and having a discussion. And he's asking me current questions. Which I could talk in those with whom I studied at Johns Hopkins, and that as an Egyptologist to a time... I always, whenever I end up talking about this question, which I do sometimes in class when I talk about politics, I always think of Betsy Bryant, because she was my classmate at a time in Egyptology, at a time when all of the fact, and it was unusual that an Egyptologist, although there must have been many young women who wanted to be Egyptologists, in the meantime, women have taken up with the schools, which is interesting that we could discuss that in general, and it does women, but Egyptian archaeology have really been taken up. So last time when I was thinking about this discussion, I figured out that about a third tautology in this country now are the days when I was a student. Now it's an institute of archaeology at UCLA, and there are so many female students. The director of the program says, oh, well, that's a diversity. We should consider this student. And in many ways, he's right when he says that. So the feminism in Egyptology is a strange thing, because the women have very much are moving and coaching to take over the field. So questions of women in ancient Egypt, any of the questions were systematically of... In case studies, they're so popular now. Yeah, so I wrote a book called, which makes a reaction to certain religious events, which decided they wanted to be more upfront about the sexuality of the person on the inside of that coffin. We're very upfront about the inside, shows the ancient Egyptian female in getting to the next life, I found very intriguing, in the same social... Could you explain what the problem was? Let's go back to our creation as not... You worked for six days and you read it. The Egyptians were not shy about showing how this creation... So how did women deal with the fact that fertility or recreation is really a masculine activity? And that a woman needs to be reborn in her coffin. She's isolated inside her coffin after her death, and she needs to be reborn into the next world. So how did women deal with that? And with no masculine principle nearby? Well, as you and I have discussed, it's more complicated than just the feminine needing the masculine. The masculine, it seems, the coffin itself is a feminine element. Ancient Egyptian was just like the smurf, smurf and smurfette. So you add a T and you... The ancient Egyptian coffin, osiris-like as she possibly can. And I don't have an image of it here. The inner piece is what she is meant to become. And in typical Egyptian fashion, they put all of the stages there. In one coffin set, it is a fate of complete. Your rebirth is a given, this is the way it's going to happen. All of these objects are making this so in material, magical form. So means she died older. It's inside of the Osiris. The 18th Dynasty used to have more of an androgynizing piece. And then as you go into... See, sorry, as I skip ahead. Let me do this piece. As you go into the 20th and 21st, there is a move away from showing the female form and the femininity on the inside. And this piece has been reused. So you see the decoration on the bottom and then decoration on the top. They've just plastered over it. You see the lines on the bottom there. So that's the garment of a male or a female could be either one with formation through an Osirian transformation. Fashion dictated or religious beliefs dictated. One of the things I like to point out in our version, our coffin that shows this process is the way skin tone is used. And I often say that our coffin where it walks, it has man skin even though she's a woman. Could you talk about that? So if I look at... Sorry, this piece here. It is typical for... In an Egyptian statue, and there's much discussion about this by Egyptologists as well, there should be. But it is typical for Egyptian statues to show a male with a dark red over skin and to show a female with a woman staying in the home and thus not being out in the fields and being an active member of society or passive and thus her skin color is lighter. We could discuss all of those. And I think coming from the top down because Nefrotardist, she has that dark red red and she's released it. We wouldn't have a job. We wouldn't. Could you talk a little bit about the... The very first time I heard you talk you were still a graduate student and you talked about the economics of coffins. I think people... It was such a great paper that I sat there as a... I was actually an assistant professor by that point and I thought to myself, I wish I had written this paper. Was it Michigan? No, I don't remember where we were. It could have been in Michigan. But anyway, you were really one of the first people to talk about how much did these things cost? And so could you give a little idea of those issues, what the issues are there and how you figure that out? Well, I like to... Egyptologists talk about coffee at work and we get lost in the weeds. It's useful there. But I teach a graduate seminar at UCLA that deals with... Everyone's going to be picking up that each of you is going to feel the desire to totally get lost in the weeds and start to argue with each other about what the... Do you see how they're in the similar interworld divinities here? What are they doing and how does it work? And if we do that, then we fall into the trap. So let's just wipe all of that aside. Yes, the coffins object par excellence. It's there to transform the dead into a living person, into an OSIRIS, and then into a... Decisions about one direction or another is not necessarily from telling you which should be this way or that way. Or Goats or eyeliner or Hello Kitty markers or whatever. Next years, I remember the teachers' park used their material objects to gain power for a generation. Ecologists usually look at these objects as transformation pieces and transformation pieces only from a religious perspective. And look at them as objects that display family. These pieces are... Just say a few words perhaps about specific prices and then I was hoping you would talk about a related issue which you've worked on which is the reuse of coffins as coffins get more expensive. Because the coffin in the exhibition was actually one that was reused at least once over several generations. But in comparison to the amount of labor a person would need in order to earn enough to have a coffin. And you know what? The reuse. So let me start with the second part because that's actually changed a lot of my ideas. I feel like I have to rewrite it as being reused.  And I'm going to the pieces I'm showing here. It's 20 seconds. So right now the only piece I have that's reused potentially is this one here. And it's the earliest evidence of reuse that I've got so it's okay. This is a piece in the British Museum and I think you can see the reuse pretty clearly. It's an extraordinary thing to think about taking the body of an ancestor out of a coffin, placing that body over to the side, bringing that coffin out of the tomb, redecorating it, re-commodifying that coffin essentially, reselling it or reusing it within the context of the family, and then putting a new body inside of it. And when I bring this idea up to people, the first question that's raised, particularly in Egypt where people are very sensitive about this, is how dare you say that these coffins are reused. That's an extraordinarily immoral thing to do. And I say, how is it, it's the most moral solution in a time period of crisis and economic scarcity. So we can all imagine that we live in a time period of economic scarcity and a very fiercely loved, loved one and your family has died. And you're in Egyptian, you believe that you need this materiality to transform the dead into an Osiris. This needs to happen in your mind. And are you just going to let your mother not be transformed? Are you going to go into the family vault, go into the burial chamber, move some pieces around, belong to an ancestor that you don't know or remember anymore? Your family doesn't even talk about that ancestor.  Oh, dear. You believe in the angry dead. You believe that these dead people could come back and harm you in some way. You might then bring in a magician or a priest or somebody who can make sure that the dead is going to not turn against you. And there is some really... the inscription for Nessie Kahn's, have you read it recently? It's a 21st dynasty text where it keeps encircling her heart and circling her heart saying that no harm will come to anybody from Nessie Kahn's suit. That she will not harm this person, she will not harm that person. Nessie Kahn's suit will not harm anybody.  The Nessie Kahn's suit is going to come out of her grave and just attack them, and they're all freaked out so much so they go to the priesthood in Karnak and say, please, you know, write up this text for us and do this magical spell. I looked at that and went, oh, my God, it's a magical spell to make sure that when they're reusing her coffins that her ghost doesn't come and bite them when they've done this. So they bring somebody into encircle her heart and make sure that she's not harming anyone and then they move her aside in the burial chamber. It's why the only 19th Dynasty burial chamber, so Ramosid burial chamber that was found intact had only nine bodies buried in coffins and another 11 or 12, I don't have to look at the exact numbers, were found outside of coffins. I used to understand that was because they wanted to be buried with the rich people. The poor cousin who couldn't afford a coffin put the mummy in and then the other people would have a nice coffin so they would all be there together. Everyone that went into this burial chamber had a coffin originally but they were taken out of those coffins as the 20th Dynasty went on. So your mother's died, we're going with our hypothetical idea of somebody you fiercely love has just died and this is the only moral solution. You remove an ancestor whom you don't really remember. You treat that ancestor with respect. You move the body over, keep it in your burial chamber in a protected space, yes, without a bodily container, but you keep it there.  It's important to update these pieces if possible. The very least you must update with the name and title of the new person. Which is all your coffin of where it walks at or Ben Suipit has, right? Ben Suipit is the re-user and where it walks at was the original owner. And this coffin amazes me, the coffin in the exhibition here, because when that piece was displayed in the funeral, everyone would have known it was reused. Everyone would have known it was an old piece. It's not like getting married in a vintage wedding gown, guys. This is not something you want to show off to people. The norm for reuse was to hide your traps, cast your over the old decoration as we see here, and put a new decoration on the surface. This is why reuse was not seen for so long, and I'm the first person to look at it systematically. It was uncrazely obsessed with coffins, and that's not something everybody should do. It's a weird thing. But so the idea that this is immoral, I push back against. This is the only moral way of dealing with it. But the Egyptians themselves knew there was a problem with their traps more often than not. And when they reused, they updated and tried to make it modern and stylish. This piece here is a reused set, but I can't show you where it is without any close-up pictures of the crafts to give you an idea of where the old decoration would be. But I've been looking at coffins dating to the 21st dynasty, time period during and after the Bronze Age collapse, a time period of extraordinary crisis in the ancient world when the sea peoples are sweeping around the Mediterranean, and kingdoms are falling in their wake, and people don't have enough to eat, and there is warfare everywhere. Down south in Egypt, in Thebes, people are able to hold on a little bit better. But they still have no wood in cultivation in the delta, because the delta has been laid waste from all we can tell. And they don't have wood coming in from the Lebanon in trade, because that trade has been shut down and we have other pieces of evidence to make that point for us for the 21st dynasty. And people are driven by the lack of wood in particular to take old wooden coffins, scrape that decoration down, and start again. And I've been looking and I've looked at probably 300 coffins of the 21st dynasty with my own eyes, sometimes through museum cases, sometimes not, trying to determine if a piece was reused or not, and my numbers right now, it's 65% It's 65%. With just what I can see with my two eyes, and I know that if I was able to use my super X-ray vision for all of these pieces, some sort of stealth means of looking through plaster, I would see much more than that. But 65%, it's not too bad. So the reuse is, to me, it again makes the point that the Egyptians, when they had to choose, were more interested in the short-term use of these objects and display than they were in the long-term ownership. And there are even coffins that I could show you in a different PowerPoint that have a blank that is varnished over for the name. Which I think approaches a kind of coffin rental, if you like. Because you can write over a varnished surface and you can easily wipe that away with a wet cloth. I call it the Wipey Board Hypothesis. And I'm working with a conservator to help me determine how that would work if you applied varnished to a surface, how you could apply ink to, and how you might be able to wipe it off and reapply. My final issue that I want to be sure we covered before we open the floor up to questions has to do with the use of language. And where it walks its coffin in particular, there is the issue that masculine language is used to address the deceased in the notions of woman. So I wanted to ask you to talk about that. Yeah, this is a really cool feature of ancient Egyptian coffins that, or funerary objects. Where you see different pronouns being used. So on this scarab you see the name and title of the deceased. In this case it's Noob E.T. And it's Iris Noob E.T. She says to introduce the book of the dead text that goes along with the scarab which is about the heart of my mother, heart of my mother and it goes on. Later on in this book of the dead text, the pronoun his is used. And the Egyptologists who published this said that it was a stock piece that was purchased on the market and then they just changed the pronoun because this was the way things worked. And I thought okay, I'm not sure because on a coffin like this piece here in the British Museum fully gilded set, cedar wood, 19th dynasty, highest quality of the highest elite you can possibly imagine. The fact that this came to the museum in one set is extraordinary in and of itself. And if you look at here we've got her name. She's the Osiris. Do you see the Osiris? They're the eye and the seat and the guy. That's the name of the god Osiris. And then you have Nebet Pair and there's the pair. And then she's Shemaitan Amen. So she's the chantress of Amen. And then her name and I can barely see that. Henu Mahit is here. Then you see the snake, the cobra, Jed S. She says very clearly they understand she's a woman, she's got female titles no problem. But if you look at the book of the dead 151 on the case size and in other parts he, his she's masculinized. The people who made this were amazingly skilled craftsmen. The people who ordered it were very rich discerning rich people. Do you know any discerning rich people around? Right?  I am not that person but we all know those people right? And the discerning rich people who can read hieroglyphs are going to know whether there's a he in there. And they're not going to think of it as a scribal mistake. It's a facile way of going about this. This was purposefully done. She's able to have her cake and eat it too. She's able to be masculine and feminine simultaneously. And they do it in very clever ways. So she is feminine when her identity is introduced. Her, her self the title, mistress of the house, chanters of almond Henu Mahit, she says but then in all of the text it talks about making sure her corpse is intact and making sure that her Osirian body parts are put together in an Osirian way. She is he. He does his body his this or that. Purposefully done. And so that's where the language element comes in. But that also stresses to you guys how much of an elite and intellectual problem this was. That in many ways the Egyptian rich created for themselves when they started to bury their dead in anthropoid Osirian like coffins in the first place and before that point when they were just buried in boxes this wasn't even an issue. The problem gets worse for the female the more tricked out their their coffins get. So I would think this would be a good point to start taking questions from the floor and Kara I'm going to ask you to call on people because I'm not having vision problems right now I'm going to see his hands up. Check in Dutch and the reason I say check in Dutch is because Yaroslav Cherny who was a God of Egyptian heratic texts of non-fiction heratic texts went around the world whenever there was an Ostracon or a set of Ostraca that he could transcribe he did and his notebooks then made their way into the Griffith Institute in London and sorry what? Oh sorry Oxford, thank you in Oxford and when I was doing my dissertation research the Griffith Institute was closed and I couldn't get in but at Leiden University at the Nino and I'm not going to try to translate but it's the Near Eastern Studies department in Leiden they have they have Xerox copies of the entire notebook from Cherny so I went to Leiden and Leiden is also a bastion of these non-literary heratic texts and they've added to it as well and there's a wonderfully Egyptologist who recently died named Jack Janssen who wrote a book that sounds it's got the sexiest title you guys are not going to believe it called Commodity Prices from the Ramisted Period a book you and I both know well it is a great book sounds horrible but it is amazing what this guy did and Jack Janssen collected prices for different kinds of wooden objects coffins, shirts sandals, livestock of all kinds food of all kinds it's a discussion of vocabulary as much as anything else trying to figure out what's what and the section on coffins I found rather intriguing he was pretty he got almost every piece I found a couple of prices that he didn't include in there but for the most part he was able to find every piece where Jock and I disagreed and Jock Janssen did you know this when I was writing my dissertation I wrote him a letter saying this is my dissertation that's what I'm working on and he wrote me a hand written ten page letter saying this is a horrible idea and why it was a horrible idea but I can imagine that I was making assumptions that the Egyptians had a market economy an understood profit and that that was stupid and that the Egyptians had a primitive economy and this was the way it worked and I didn't know how to react to that you know when you're a grad student you don't have the confidence that you have later you think that you're an idiot and when somebody like Jock Janssen writes you a ten page letter saying that you suck you're like oh my god you suck and so I remember going in tears to my advisor and saying what do I do what do we do they're like you just rework the economy stupid and I went oh okay so then I became involved in discussions of ancient economy and it's yeah the Egyptians had an understanding of profit yes they knew how to buy and sell yes they knew what the value of these things were and yes value did go up in time depending on the scarcity or the plentiful nature of the commodity in question and the reason prices for things like sandals or shirts changed so little is because in an agricultural economy the price for flaps or the price for leather and the labor there too changed so little it doesn't mean that there's no inflation there's grain inflation to be seen in the Egyptian texts but so we had an economic disagreement but does that yeah go ahead go ahead oh sorry thank you thank you thank you so these texts all come from ancient Thebes and most of these texts come from the Theban western desert many of them come from a site called Derel Medina where the workmen who decorated the tombs in the valley of the kings lived and many of them come from the valley of the kings or queens itself and the reason they survive and essentially there are pot-shirts or limestone flakes with black or red ink written on them the only reason they survive is because they weren't deposited near the inundation areas so objects like this would have been made little notes like laundry lists you send your laundry out or I'm going to buy this cow and it's going to cost me 60 debon and you make a little list of it you might put it in ink on a pot-shirt but if you live in the delta and you throw that away archaeologists who find it go look a pot-shirt you find that in the desert in the Theban desert you find that there is a lot of dust on here and then you can work with it in a different way because of the arid climate and I'm sorry I skipped over the sources of that yes please sort of I can say that amongst the top 3, 4, 5% notice how I just did that we know so little about the people who are in control of this Egyptian society that I don't know if it would really be 3%, 5% or what but the people at the bottom the whole status emulated the people at the top so the people at the top would have any of you guys been to the Met recently and seen Meket Otten the beautiful image of the female all of those figurines from the middle kingdom too and she's got the thing on her head with the bread and beer and she's bringing these things in for the dead that's what and I think I might actually have that in this discussion but she's the, yeah something like this which doesn't suck but it ain't that Meket Otten piece is it and you can see the difference in quality this is something that out of perspective I have been advised do not talk about that there are no quality differences that they have different feelings to them but they have the same function I agree yes they have the same function but in terms of display the discerning high level elites something like this and say yeah I mean how cute yes it's going to function for you but they will just overlook it and not even notice it's like a gap sweater for them right who cares but that Meket Otten piece that will be talked about it will be discussed people remember it and that is a way of making your case amongst other elites can I really make any sorts of discussion in terms of numbers and give you a sociological analysis of this not with what we have not really I could show you some way uglier examples of this I have a photo of a piece that I saw in storage in Berlin at the a gift issues museum and she looks like that girl she's got like these weird eyes and her head is just a block just stuck on there and the duck looks horrible but it's got the duck, it's got the beard it's got the woman and it's got breasts just kind of boom right there yeah so they're meant to be functional but there are different ways of communicating your worth think of the Mask of Tut you can all see it in your mind's eye right now drop dead gorgeous amazing piece solid gold, you know that's power and then you see a gilded piece that's trying to approach that power and then you see a coffin that is polychrome that is not even close but they're trying to make their case amongst their display audience so to kind of give a quick and dirty answer to your question one thing is to say that people are displaying to the people that make a difference in their social life these people aren't going to display to the Uber rich the Uber rich don't care about their tune they're not going to be there to see it the Uber rich are only going to be looking at where they're looking it's a much closer circle tighter thing, details will be focused on a way that you don't with these pieces and the lower elites are going to focus on making a bigger splash taking their more limited resources and being more ostentatious with it and trying to make a bigger display because they have more people to impress than the very very rich does that kind of make a point? I would just add that that whole process then goes on in modern museums as well so we have a storeroom full of things that are lesser quality but the exhibition space which is limited is one of the best things and put them on display for you so that creates a kind of distorted picture of what ancient Egypt was like everybody I've ever met who is reincarnated from ancient Egypt he was a king or a prince I've never met a peasant who was reincarnated I'm going to do a graduate seminar this next year at UCLA on Egyptian social history because we have the social history of ancient Egypt but what the hell was that and that needs to be redone it's a beautiful book but it's a confusing book written by four different authors and nobody really knows what to make of it that's the O'Connor who else is O'Connor Lloyd Trigger but you and then you please back to his question I'm going to give you an example of a guy in coffins and where people would put their wealth their limited wealth everyone has limited wealth even a king has limited wealth you can't take all the gold in the world and put it in the tomb and it's always a question of audience who gets to get in there and a question of how many people in your audience you want to impress let me give you two different examples they're amazing mummies how many people do you think got to view those mummies how were they displayed you're not supposed to show a naked body this is an Ossirian thing it's supposed to be protected and safe who were you displaying this to maybe 10 people 12 people the people who had their bodies mummified like this were displaying it to a very small set in a closed very competitive community of other high elites they did not need to worry about impressing the people below they needed to worry about impressing their peers in this competitive high priesthood of Amin that mummification technique disappears when society broadens and they need to display to a wider set of people it only lasts when the community to be displayed to is also small and inward looking and then my second example would be these beautiful sarcophagi and I don't have a picture of it here you know Kansu and Sinejo from Theven Tomb 1 you guys can google it they're bigger than this table probably six feet tall eight or nine feet in length meticulously painted absolutely gorgeous they're in the Chiron Museum now we're found in the same tomb as this piece was found in and a number of other pieces that I've shown and for these people these are craftsmen this woman was the wife of a craftsman who decorated the tombs in the valley of the kings and the sarcophagi that I'm talking about they're wooden rectangular objects into which you would place a nested inner outer coffin set with the mummy board and the mummy of course and for these lower elites having these big huge sarcophagi to drag around in procession obviously got them a lot of play it was something that was very useful to them but you don't see and they put more of their wealth in those outer pieces than they did in the inner pieces and so maybe for them making a splash to more people was more useful because they're lower elites but I still have to think about this I mean it depends I don't think there's one rule it depends on where you fit in society and who you have to display and how many people they are and what social level so it all depends third example and then I'll get to the question behind you a burial chamber sometimes very high elites decorated their burial chamber who got to go into a burial chamber that's a place that's supposed to be capped and sealed and closed ostensibly you only get to go into it when the first two moner is interred and these are very small spaces and this little tomb chapel is up above where people can come and go this is the burial chamber that's often down a deep shaft or a sloping passage hard to get in and out of and very few people can fit inside if you're decorating your burial chamber you only need to impress 12, 10 people and so it's a and burial chamber decoration is rare people don't buy Maserati's and hide them in the garage right? they buy expensive stuff something really really special and only show it to 10 or 15 people in their home if it's something that will get them some sort of social status marker or drink a $20,000 bottle of wine or whatever insanely rich people might do but I hope that kind of answers your question it's a complicated one you just asked you could write a book about what you just asked in the back please please start with this the Egyptians and I'll get to the point about power politics part about power politics is the way the Egyptian culture worked vis-a-vis femininity A, being flexible you could masculinize or feminize and B, allowing females to have more power than other places in the ancient world and C, having a totalitarian or authoritarian regime that needed to be upheld all of those things allowed women to power more systematically and regularly than other parts of the world that doesn't mean that there's not a push back when it happens but it happens more regularly in Egypt than anywhere on the planet in the ancient world that I've ever seen just weird and strange and amazing and that's why I have more to say but the cool thing, and it was Anne Macy Rocket pointed this out the first time and she's an Egyptologist who's in New York at NYU she remarked how you have an earth agonist what femininity is it it's a culture, it's a female it's the earth gods right the Egyptians had an earth god and then this sky in western culture you think of Zeus and thunderbolts and lightning and storms or ball and some fierce weather god but in the Egyptian understanding it is a female and the sun at his death goes below the western horizon and has swallowed into her enveloped into her body then moves through her to be born from her in the eastern horizon over the earth, but it's a feminine thing the idea that I talked about that creation itself and this is what drove the mother and child from the room if none of you noticed right? yeah, because I mean so I knew it might happen but so if creation is displayed in such a masculine sexualizing way you would think that this would take power from the female in social settings but interestingly it doesn't if you look at the same text from Diro Medina this erid place that I was talking about preserves all of these texts when women and men get divorced there's often a discussion for the reasons for the divorce and they'll say oh the man is the woman is dry, the man hasn't put semen inside of her he is given the fault for the lack of a pregnancy not the woman in some ways having the onus of creation hurts the woman something to be controlled, something to be mastered, something to be veiled something to be circumcised and if you look at it the other way around it's the male that does the creating and the female is the protective vessel of it in some ways you could say that translates into more social power for women rather than less and then when they're buried as real women either kings or not as elite women and they're buried when they're buried as Osirian men they suspect that they deserve the same transformation that a man gets and you know it's not until let's be really provocative because why not and say that the idea of a virgin birth is a very ancient Egyptian notion the idea of a god creating himself is a very Egyptian notion and so the annunciation the idea that Mary is like what me it's just it's just here it's just here she has nothing to do with it she is just a vessel the god has impregnated his own manifestation of himself into her that's an extraordinary Egyptian thing then in that context and there I agree with you it translates into a loss of power for the female but it's in a confusing context the virgin birth as it's manifested in Christianity occurs in a setting where females are given all of the onus and all of the weight of the creative potential because that paganism doesn't go away all of those ideas of where creation comes from in the western world they stay then you inject the virgin birth into that and then god help you then it's not good for no one oh we get one more in the guides one more uh oh I'm so sorry there's an ed knows this well there's all kinds of curses on tombs and all over the place don't hurt my coffin or a crocodile is going to snatch you or some horrible things going to happen to you you see it all the time and so you would think oh that's interesting why are the Egyptians still reusing so much and then my answer to that would be having looked at what I looked at and analyzed what I've analyzed most reuse is happening legally in the context of the family it's not most of it is not tomb robbery most of it is happening in a very legit and in some way sanctioned way as anyone been paying attention to the discussions of King Tut in the last year the mask of Tutankhamun is a reused mask and I think that that was made very clear to me when I was in the Egyptian Museum last standing right next to Nick Reeves who showed me the reused cartouche and where the old cartouche was with the backing of Dieter Arnold and Mark Gabold and this is legit stuff that's a 26 pound solid gold mask of Tutankhamun that's reused but it's reused in a legal context of the family we don't know the circumstances of it do they snatch it from a dead body we have no idea if you're snatching it from the dead body but it's your family member then there are ways of dealing with the problematic nature of that and thus the crocodile that could potentially harm you in such a cursed inscription wouldn't come after you the Egyptians thought about this I'm sure but they never wrote about it directly the Egyptians and Ed knows as well as an Egyptologist the Egyptians don't even discuss the death of Osiris directly right it's always like the day that he fell under the tree and you're like wait fell under a tree I don't understand but they're talking about his murder by his brother's set but they never talk about it directly and this is the same with the Battle of Qadesh and Ramses II oh it was a great battle and I saved the day when really the empire was lost on that day and was never the same so this is not a authoritarian regime's like to spin the truth yes have we learned this I think we have and the Egyptians as a people like to spin this reuse but also I think since most of it was happening in a legal context it doesn't have the same meaning and you know why I can say it was happening in legal context because there's so much and this kind of comes full circle it will be a perfect stopping place before we go on our little tour is there were so much gender modification so so many coffins that were changed from male to female and then from female to male a female coffin has flat hands a male has fisted hands because the females pass it and the male is active right females got a wig and earrings and breasts male doesn't have these things you just got your lobes or a full ear and a striped headdress and you see these things switching back and forth you see a female coffin made into a male a male coffin made into a female extremely expensive time consuming clunky where I can see the old stripes underneath the female wig and I can see where they pulled off the air and just painted over it roughly and why would they do that if they could just go to the black market or the market and buy a coffin for a female because that's what they need or in their limited and scarce context of the family they've got one coffin set and the females the one who's died and they're like oh crap they've got to make it into a man's coffin and switch it and then also we can't lose sight that the coffins that I'm looking at are the last instance of reuse and I can't, some coffins I have been able to prove for instances of reuse on one coffin that's the most I've been able to go back in a sense when you're removing wood and removing pigment there's only so much I can say for the number of instances of reuse I think it's much higher than any of us could possibly imagine so I would like to thank all of you for coming


OK, I can confirm in our live. Thank you. Thank you very much, Liam. So, good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Licensing 2003 Act subcommittee to consider the application for a premises license for Childrenly Orchard on the Childrenly Estate. So, I'd like to welcome Louise Young and the team from Strawberries and Cream. Could I just check that all of you are present? If I just call your names, could you just respond verbally? Thank you. So, Simon Taylor, who's the legal advisor. Yes, I'm present. Great. Ben Wehr, proud events. I'm present. Thank you. Aisha Francis, I can see you there. Thank you, Aisha. Louise Young. Hello, yes, I'm here. Great. Thank you. Simon joins your noise management consultant. That's correct, I'm here. Thank you. Tom Sturmey, traffic management. He sends his apologies he couldn't make it this morning. OK, thank you very much. And I will now just go through and point out the other mail. I will pause at that point. I know there are members of the Parish Council. Perhaps I will just check. Could I just check that the Councillor Elizabeth Pyle is here from Dry Drayton Parish Council? I am. Thank you. And Peter Dear, who's the chairman of Ellsworth Parish Council. Yes, I'm present. Lovely. Thank you very much. OK, so welcome everybody. There are other people in the meeting who I'll introduce shortly, but I'd just like to introduce myself. I'm Councillor Anna Bradnam and the other members of the panel present are councillors Bill Handley and Deborah Roberts. Good morning, everybody. Thank you. Before we introduce ourselves further, the panel members need to appoint a chair for this hearing. So members, may I have nominations for the chair, please? Yes, I would like to nominate Councillor Anna Bradnam for this morning's hearing as chairman, please. I'm happy to support that. Thank you very much. Thank you. So could I just ask the members of the panel to introduce which wards they represent, please? So, Councillor Roberts. Yes, good morning again, Chairman. I'm district councillor for the Foxton Ward. Chairman, would it be helpful if I also declare the interest now? I've previously sat on hearing panels, licensing hearing panels for the strawberries and cream applications, but I come to this matter of fresh. Thank you, Councillor Roberts. Good morning. I'm Bill Handley. I'm the elected member for the villages of Over and Willingham. Thank you very much. While we're in the business of declarations, I will also declare that I sat on a panel for a strawberries and cream event at their previous location. So, like Councillor Roberts, I come to this matter of fresh, since it is a fresh application. So, can I also point out we have a number of officers present. We have a legal adviser, Mr Paul Weller. Mr Weller, would you like to put your camera on and introduce yourself? I have just done so. It doesn't act as quickly as my finger, but my name is Paul Weller. I'm the legal adviser for the panel this morning. Thank you. We saw you briefly and then you disappeared again. And the licensing officer, Ms Jackson. My camera is on, but it's not working, unfortunately. So hello, my name is Jane Jackson and I'm the licensing officer. Thank you. Thank you very much. And the clock to the committee of the panel. Hi, I'm Victoria Wallace from Democratic Services and my role here is to keep in note of the proceedings. And also, I'd like to introduce Mrs Suzanne Christie. Would you like to say your role? Hi, I'm Suzanne Christie. I'm the Environmental Health Officer that's been working with strawberries and cream on the safety advisory group and pre-application work with them on conditions. Thank you very much, Ms Christie. I believe we may also have one of our Democratic Services officers here, Erin Clark. Erin's not present, Anna, but we have a new member of the team, Tom Smith, who's present just to observe. Thank you very much. That's helpful. And also, I just wanted to point out to the people here that we also have two members of the licensing team. Rachel Jackson and Brooke O'Neill, who are from the licensing team, who are also observing this meeting. Thank you very much. So the way we'll run this is in a moment I will ask the licensing officer, Ms Jackson, to present her report. I will then invite the applicant to present their case. And then there will be representations at various stages from the parish councils. But at each stage, I will invite the subcommittee to ask questions of the applicant. Other representations are invited and we can ask questions at each stage. So, Mrs Jackson, can I just check with you? Are we expecting any representation other than in writing from the other statutory authorities? No, we're not. Only that, which we've had in writing. Okay, thank you. So following each of the representations, member of the subcommittee will be invited to ask questions. And when we do that, I'd ask that wherever possible, people, those asking a question when invited by me that they put their camera on if possible. If not, that's fine. So the other thing is that by the nature of these electronic meetings, if anybody drops out, please do make that known through your colleagues. And if we could just somebody put it in chat and we'll just keep an eye on that just to see if there's any problem. And if there's a good reason to, we'll pause and wait for that person so they can come back on. The other point is that I'll just go through a further part. Once the discussion has concluded, the hearing will close for the panel to conduct its deliberations in private. At this point, the applicant, the legal representative and the licensing officer will leave the hearing and the live streaming of the hearing will end. And at that point, members of the panel will remain in the meeting to deliberate and reach a decision. The panel's legal advisor and clerk will remain with the panel for those deliberations. And following the deliberations, all parties will be notified of the decision in writing and this will be published on the council's website as soon as possible. Also, for everybody's comfort, I intend to call a five minute break around about 12 o'clock and I think we'll break for lunch around about one o'clock at a convenient time in the proceedings. And if I forget, do feel free to remind me. So we've had declarations from Councillor Robert Sand from myself. Does any other member of the panel have any declaration? None from me. None from me, Chairman, but can I just clarify Chairman, do you want us to use the council hand me an eye to use the chat? Or are you happy if we put our hands up? Sometimes my chat function doesn't work very well on this. No, that's fine. I'm happy for you and Councillor Handley to put your hands up visually. Thank you so much. That's fine. OK, so let's move on then to Miss Jane Jackson to present the report, please. Miss Jackson, are you there? I can hear lots of scuffling of papers. It's Miss Jackson there, Victoria. Could you just clarify whether Miss Jackson is still with us? Yeah, I'm just having a look through the list of people in this meeting. It looks like she might have dropped out. Yeah, I think she has. That was good timing, wasn't it? I just need to give her a few minutes to get back in. Would members of the meeting be happy to just pause a moment while we wait for Miss Jackson to come back? I'm sorry. Actually, she is here. She appears to be present. You might just be having issues. There we go. Sorry, the mute button doesn't want to work for some reason on Teams, but so apologies for that. OK, so Miss Jackson, if you would give your report, that would be great. OK, the application to grant a new premises licence for Mac reference TL3555760586, known as Childrenly Orchard, was received by the licensing department on 8 February 2021 and was sent out for consultation. The application proposes a new premises licence to operate for up to eight days over two weekends to take place between 1 May and 30 September annually. The premises is a field comprising a flat glass land which can be identified from the Mac reference quoted above previously, which is also known as Childrenly Orchard. The proposed application is to carry out the following activities, the provision of films, provision of plays, provision of recorded music, provision of live music, provision of anything of a similar description to live music, recorded music or performance of dance, provision of performances of dance, late night refreshments and the supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises only. The application was sent to all the responsible authorities for consultation as part of that licensing application process. Notification of the application was also sent to neighbouring parish councils. The blue notice was correctly displayed and the notice of application was advertised in the Cambridge Evening News. Representations have been received from interested parties and responsible authorities and the applicant has been made aware of these. The applicant responded to the representations on 18 March. Following this, representation 4 for Barhill Parish Council withdrew their representation. Supplement 1 to the agenda shows the response to Dry Drayton Parish Council's questions in relation to the applicant's response to their representation. Supplement 2 to the agenda is a copy of the applicant's legal advisers proposed premises licence conditions. Members, when considering this application, should be made aware that they may only take into account the parts of the application which represents the licensing objectives and that is the prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance, protection of children from harm. Members have the right under the Licensing Act 2003 to determine this application after considering any relevant representations. Members may accept the proposed application as submitted, reject the application or agree the application but impose conditions that promote the relevant licensing objectives. All parties will maintain the right of appeal to magistrates court after determination of this committee. Thank you. Thank you. Miss Jackson, I just wanted to ask you one further question. We understand the consultation went out to all Parish Councils, but we've only had representations back from Ellsworth, Dry Drayton and Barhill who subsequently withdrawn. Can I just check that the other Parish Councils of Napwell, Childerly and the closer other Parish, you know, Caldercock for example that they also were contacted but they chose not to respond? Is that correct? Yep, that's correct. There were four that responded, Hardwick as well. Sorry, yes, that's right. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Did anybody have any other matters, just purely matters of clarification to the officer? No chairman. Okay, right. So let's now hear from the applicant. Is that going to be yourself, Aisha? Who is responding on behalf of the applicant? Or is that Mr Taylor or Mr Wuer? It will be Simon. Simon Taylor. Simon Taylor. Oh, thank you. Okay, so let's hear your representation please now. I propose to speak to three specific areas. I'm aware that it is a lengthy agenda that you have with a lot of information and I'll try and not repeat what's in the agenda papers. I'd like to say a few words about the application and the two events that are proposed if the license is granted. And I'd also like to introduce the applicant and give me some information about the applicant and the competence of proud events who are the production company. Secondly, I would like to amplify some key points in the application. And thirdly, I'd like to highlight how the applicant will provide, or sorry, will promote the licensing objectives. So starting with the application itself, the application is for two event weekends which take place between the 1st of May and the 5th of September each year. Originally, the schedule dates for 2021 were in June, but these have been rescheduled due to COVID. These have been rescheduled to the 30th of September in 2021. The Cambridge Club is scheduled to take place between the 10th and 13th of September and strawberries and cream between the 17th and 20th of September. This year strawberries and cream is scheduled for two days, but it's hoped to expand it to three days under the license and there's provision for that in the application. And Cambridge Club is scheduled for three days of entertainment this year. The hours rule set out in the report, so I'm not going to refresh those. One point that I would make when looking at those timings. The main stage and the festival site itself is going to close at 11pm and it's only in the campsite that there are the longer hours which are requested. I'd also confirm and this is in condition 12 of the proposed conditions that there will be no licensual activities in the work or accommodation areas. And again the condition which provides for the main site closure and the camping areas in the proposed conditions. So those of you. Taylor, would you be so kind of just to repeat, we lost you, you froze for a moment. Could you just go back over what you've just said, that last sentence? I took you to condition 86 of the proposed conditions, which deals with the closure of the festival site at 2300 hours and the camping area with one music source at 0200 hours the following morning. OK, and the condition 12? A condition 12 dealt with no licensual activity in the work or accommodation areas. Thank you. OK, right moving on. The capacity that is proposed. The total capacity proposed under the license is 24999 24999 persons and that includes staff, contractors, artists, etc. So that's everybody on site. However, there are conditions which limit that in the first year to 14999 in year 2 to 1999 and in year 3 onwards to 24999. So if I can be colloquial, there is a subject and see proposal for three years before the maximum capacity can be authorised. This is all contained in condition 46 of our proposed conditions and I should emphasise that we propose that the increases can only take place if they are agreed in writing by the licensing authority. This sort of phased increase is not unusual in my experience in licences. Major festivals such as Leeds Reading Festival and festivals in the London Parks have adopted this approach in the past and it has worked. The other fundamental point that I'd like to make with regard to this application is that there is a procedure which is contained in the conditions beginning at condition 3 at page 3 of the second supplemental report which I'll refer to you later in detail but there is a procedure that has to be gone through each year effectively before the events are authorised. As I say, I'll return to that later. One other thing I'd like to mention is that there is a small camping provision proposed this year. That is in addition. It's a modest provision in 2021 for up to 1,000 attendees and there will be a properly regulated and authorised campsite on the site itself. With regard to site capacity because in a sense you're looking at 15,000 people this year but 25,000 people potentially in the future. I just wanted to mention the capacity. This is a new site, it's a larger site than before and frankly there is not an issue nor will there be an issue with capacity in years to come. Over the size there is an area of 155,000 square metres in the total site. That is then broken down by calculations for instance infrastructure which we have to put on the site which obviously reduces the audience capacity. What I can tell you is our calculations involving stages, emergency site access, egress calculations, exit widths from structures all demonstrate that the maximum capacity of please I'll use the round figure is quicker to say 25,000 people can be safely accommodated in the future. Of course for any future application all of this will be dealt with through a site process which is part of the procedure that I mentioned. So there will be going forward there will be no difficulties in proper scrutiny of the capacity whenever that arises. If I can now move on to the events themselves and you may have previous knowledge of this the Cambridge Club was an event that was founded in 2017 previously is taken place over one day. The demographic is typically between families with children to pensioners and there is a wish to expand this to accommodate more families going forward. It's described as a festival of music arts culture and good food. The activities that will take place in addition to music are comedy, talks, discussions, wellness, delicious food and dining, family entertainment and high end glamping. Previously it was held over one day and the intention is to expand it to three days. Strawberries and cream first took place in 2014 and it's well established on the festival calendar. The demographic is 18 to 30 year olds and it is an over 18 event. It's an event described as having modern genre of music and youth culture. Both events are popular locally particularly so the Cambridge Club where the vast majority of the audience is locally based and we estimate from data of previous events that strawberries and cream has a 75% audience local take up. I would also point out to you as well that environmental health have inserted a condition or proposed a condition for the license which obligated us to give details of the artists who are going to be at the perform at the various events. Moving on to the applicant. The applicant is strawberries and cream limited. That company has recently been purchased by Semblar which is a well established London based promoter and that promoter itself is owned by the Sony music group. This acquisition will enable both events to grow and develop their potential. Can I also mention the change of site? There are a number of benefits with the site. The move has been occasioned for several reasons but one of those was a recommendation from the police that we needed to find a site with better access. We have gone out and done that and it's notable that there is no representation before you objecting to this event from the police. So we have found a better site. It is a better site because it's larger. There is more room to grow because it's in a better location further from Cambridge city centre. The transport hubs for bringing people to the site can be off site which is more efficient. It enables us to provide a better offering to our customers both in terms of the site itself but also the investment in artists. And also we have appointed proud events or proud events have been appointed who are very experienced in the organisation of events which I'll speak about in a moment. A large event will also provide greater benefit to the local economy. Turning to proud events, that company was established in 2014. The owners of it and one of the directors is Mr Wurr. The directors have over 50 years experience in the live events industry. Mr Wurr is a director of proud events. He is also to be the DPS at the events on site. He has seven years experience as event director of the event known as Pride in London which involves a march of 35,000 persons through London with between three quarters and a million spectators. The company also has vast experience of festivals with capacities up to 65,000 persons. Persons in this country and abroad, they design and deliver events which include the planning, build, performance and takedown of those events. In addition they have experience of dealing with a number of key contractors who will bring specialist service to these events such as security, noise management, transport management, medical provision, litter and waste management and welfare to mention just a few. I'd like to move on now to the second area, the key points about the application. Both the applicant and proud events understand that partnership is the key to safe and successful delivery of events. That partnership involves partnership with the licensing authority, responsible authorities, local community and businesses. They're mindful that the Section 182 guidance recognises all of what I've just said and that knowledge from all of those bodies are invaluable to the organisation of events. To achieve this proud have already reached out to all of these groups. The applicants planning and feasibility study began in August 2020 with the site being identified by proud and their key contractors. Contact was what made with the safety advisory group on the 5th of October. A provisional operating schedule was provided on the 8th of October and a site visit with key members of SAG took place on the 15th October. The police were invited but couldn't attend at that time. Involvement with SAG has continued with two further meetings, one on the 24th of November which was pre-application and the other was on the 16th of February which was post-application. The application itself was prepared in December 2020 and received significant input from licensing, environmental health and the police which was concluded by the 16th of December and the application itself was lodged on the 8th of February. In addition to SAG we formed a number of subgroups for example the transport subgroup which comprises local highways, our traffic and transport consultants and there are two. State coach who are providing the shuttle buses and a park and ride team managing the park and ride. This was done early in the process so that it met on the 1st of December and has met again on the 8th of February. In addition to the responsible authorities we've also engaged in consultation. So for example an email with a consultant deck which explained our plans for the event which was attached to the emails. Emails were sent out to the local MP, to the county councillor, to district councillors for Caldercock and Hardwick and to parish councils, Childrenly, Caldercock, Hardwick and Dry Drayton. We didn't receive any responses on those. Secondly in December we did a letter drop to 517 properties of local residents and businesses. This letter provided details of the events, offered Zoom meetings and gave an email address so that we could set up an emailing list to share comments and information with local residents and businesses. In response one person attended a Zoom meeting with us and three people joined our mailing list. In due course we informed those on the mailing list of our application becoming live and being lodged and gave them details of the website where it could be viewed and offered calls and further meetings, Zoom meetings to discuss events. Communication from all of this consultation, the responses that we've received were those which you have before you in the representations from the parish councils and we haven't received any other responses at all. Going forward SAG meetings have been scheduled for the 20th of April and there is a tabletop meeting which will stress test our event management plan that is scheduled for the 20th of July. We have deliberately made this the tabletop meeting for the 20th of July so that there is plenty of time between July and the proposed events to tweak any of the plans as necessary. In addition there will be numerous sub meetings which will take place. For example there will be sub meetings with security, our security and the police. Many items will need to be finalised such as the security deployments and that sort of thing. The transport subgroup is clearly scheduled to meet further to discuss transport and there is to be a public health subgroup to monitor developments with COVID-19. The noise management plan has already been a sub meeting on the 2nd of March and it's anticipated by us that there will be a further meeting to finalise the noise management plan which has been prepared, been scrutinised but is still in draft stage. So that is the planning process. I would also add that whilst we have consulted with or attempted to consult with parish councils by meetings etc, of course we are open to further discussions meetings. We have an open door policy towards parish councils, towards residents to contact us with concerns or requests for information. What I'd like to do now is turn to the third part, the final part of the presentation which is the promotion of the licensing objectives and mention that. Section 18 of the application which is in your papers at 27 to 39 is a narrative of how the licensing objectives will be addressed and I am absolutely certain that you have all read that thoroughly. In addition we have prepared a set of draft conditions which are in the supplementary bundle, the second supplementary bundle at pages 3 to 16. These conditions were prepared by me in consultation with my clients and were sent on the 15th of March to licensing.


Now this movie is just for my spring 2020 students because you're working under difficult circumstances and you may not be able to actually install GIMP on your own computer. So we're gonna walk through and make those measurements that you need to use. So again, I've pulled in the images the way I need to and then I'm going to go ahead and zoom in. Now right now I can see all four of the red stars and you should be able to figure out which the blue ones they go with. Just to make this a little bit easier, I'm gonna zoom in a little bit more and again locate my one, two, three and then my other one is up a little bit further for your number four. Starting over here with number one because we're starting on the left side, you would measure from the middle of one star to the pair on the other one and that's gonna give me 5.4 pixels. Now if I were to zoom in a lot, there's some variation involved here and for future semesters, I'll let them have a little bit of leeway. If I measure again, I get 5.1 pixels so we're getting about the same here. For my second star, these are a little bit bigger dots but again try and go from the center of one to the center of the matching pair. So for number two, I'm getting 13.0 pixels. For pair number three, going from center to center, we're getting approximately 22.8 pixels and going up here and over a little bit more, I should be able to find my last one. I may need to zoom out a little bit, there it is and measure it again from about the center to about the center and find that this one is also about 5.1 pixels. So again, just for you guys in spring 2020, if you can't get Gimp installed on your own machine, you can watch this video to actually get your measurements. If you have any questions, let me know.


Hey traders T Bradley 90 here for those who do not know Alex took on the challenge recently of seeing how much he can grow a $30,000 account in 30 trading days and the results are in and he made $84,000 in less than 30 trading days, which turned his $30,000 account into a hundred and thirteen thousand dollars Alex recently put together a free mentorship course with his mentor bow explaining exactly how he did this the link is available at My investing club dot co slash Alex There's limited seating every single week. So be sure to reserve your spot as a very special gift to our YouTube viewers I want to announce something very special This is my personal phone number my personal number that I am putting out to you guys if you have any questions about joining M.I.C. Or on the fence about joining our wonderful club You can contact me now directly and personally and I will get back to you Hey guys, Austin here back for another trader cap this time on rad RAD a large cap But before I do I want to say I'm not licensed or registered I'm not a financial advisor and none of this should be taken as investment advice even if it sounds like it Okay, so rad Coming in Coming into this day. I had a I had the idea for a first red day on it Clearly for those who are familiar with the first red day the first red day is Is when you attempt to short the stock that has gone parabolic just green green green green green day after day after day You know green up update update update update update and you're just waiting for that first red day that first That first profit-taking day that first day where sellers start to take over control And it shifts from buyers and control the sellers and control and so we had a great opportunity for a first red day here on the 27th and The reason I wasn't gonna do this video at first just because like it didn't play out exactly the way I wanted it to But I realized like we don't get that many opportunities for first red day So I figured I might as well do it and explain what I was thinking When it happened so normally I have two Criterias I have two criterias for first red days now the two criterias are like the two Variations of the setup. There's the first red day that gaps up and the first red day that gaps down So for example rad could have gapped down from, you know, it closed here on the 26th Or at like 19s if it had gapped down to 17 or 18 right 1750 or something like that Then like a push up right to 19 right like so if we had like, you know You know where we close it if you had gap down to here and then push up to 19 That's variation number one is when it gaps down and then what I like to do is I like to short the push into red to green Expecting red to green to fail and then to add on the confirmation as red to green fails. So those are my two those are my two That's my plan of attack for the gap down version now the other variation which is the one we got today is The gap up variation when a stock goes green green green green green gaps up and And then you're still looking to get that first that first sign where the sellers are going to start to take control right And I'm trying to zoom out on the chart here and so yeah, and so It's always great when there's like a beautiful level to kind of go off of but on the left of the chart here There's not something super great to go off of so that makes this first red day a lot harder and It also made it a lot harder What really was the curve ball in this first red day is that we didn't it gap way up, right? We closed at 19 and we opened at 22 that's a very big gap up for something that's already up five days in a row of Straight parabolic green action. So how do you tackle something like this? Well? No, the normal variation like if this would have gapped up, you know this closed at like 1920 it gaps up to say 20 Right normally what I like my a setup for the first red day is if we had opened You know we closed here floated up if we had opened at around 20 We tank in the morning to go and test red to green that means that there'll be a red to green line Righted around here. Let me make a horizontal line Right it like what was it 19 right there? They'll be like a red to green line right at around here And if we're opening it like 20 or 2050 we're gonna pull down at the open into this level And now what I like to do is I'd like to see that level bounce or somewhat hold then I want to see a Push up and then I want to see a lower low in Conjunction with the the prior clothes line Now that's my a setup variation for this Secondary gap up version of the first red day I like to short a lower low a breakdown in essence of the I want to basically see a breakdown on the prior close Meaning prior close failed to hold this is probably when profit-takers are gonna come now What makes this scenario very tricky is that we get way up, right? So there is there's really no chance of it opening at 22 and tanking all the way down to 19 And then getting a bounce in a lower low on 19, right? So I knew that was gonna be out the window But that doesn't mean that I still like I still don't want to capture this you know this first red day I do there's I do feel like there's an edge here in training this as a first red day setup So the trigger the the signal is not ideal, right? This is become this for me becomes not an ideal first red day just because it doesn't fit perfectly into what I like to There's no chance of a breakdown upon prior clothes or anywhere close to it, right? Like you know if you know if like 1920 or something was the prior clothes Maybe I'll use 20 or 1950 if it's close enough I can group those together on a large cap stock, but we weren't even close We got the 22 and that's too far away. So that's the curveball in this situation. So You know I experimented with just shorting it right out of the gate and let me just pull up my charges To show you guys I Experimented with shorting it right out of the open thinking that maybe if 22 was the pre-market kind of you know It was kind of basing here near the the clothes of pre-market if we can break down here Maybe I'll have a nice tight risk on 2250 or something like that tight risk. I say tight risk, but it's you know It's just a feeler trade and It's It's a large cap right I give it more range I'll let something move like a dollar with this kind of range on a on a starter Hey traders T Bradley 90 here Tosh Bradley from my investing club chat Just wanted to reach out to you personally and show you how to contact myself personally If you have any questions about joining M. I see about M. I see in general or are on the fence and need a little bit Of guidance before you join for the first time ever I have put out my personal number for you to reach me directly Among my email at Tosh at my investing club calm and our Twitter and IG handles reach out today and get any Information you need on what makes M. I see so great and why you should join us today