Okay, so yeah, thanks for coming out. Can everybody hear me? Okay. All right. So yeah Let's get right into it Okay, so yeah, I'm at the Zeke. I work on the advanced security research team at Trend Micro It's a pretty awesome game because I get to do offensive research all day basically Find ways to break things and then build school exploit demos around it And of course, you know Do the responsible thing and disclose all the vulnerabilities I find to the zero-day initiative and and we work with the vendors to to get all the issues fixed Since I've been working there. I've found over 40 vulnerabilities and different things mostly IOT stuff But yeah, I also do like to speak at conferences This is actually my fourth time speaking at DEF CON for some reason they keep letting me come back. I'm not sure why But yeah, spoken at recon rocks gone to work on stuff like that Okay, so When I started this project, I didn't even know what Crestron was a co-worker of mine actually had a couple of old Crestron devices I wanted me to take a look at them And you know, I do love to take requests So I said sure So I thought like since I had no idea who they were There are probably some other people out there that don't know what they what they are what they can do either So I figured it would be good to do like a little intro type thing so basically Devices are device controllers. They're fully programmable and customizable Their bread and butter is kind of audio video That's what they're known for is like an audio video distribution and control Tights up, but they're also doing like, you know, the fancy things where you like go into a room And there's like a touch panel on the wall and you like click a button and it'll open up the shades and stuff like that And they're also getting into like building management systems They've got the capability to tie back net and do your Crestron controllers I've also seen them used in an access control and security settings You know like a Touch panel on the door you click the button and I'll intercom you into somebody who can let you in kind of thing Anyways like a little customizable They've got basically any way you could possibly want to interact with the device So you can you can do a red cereal TCI you of course You can even do like straight relay control maybe control Crestnet is kind of their own little thing So basically what you do is write a program In what's called symbol, which is their their little programming language And you basically use that to write actions to perform on your devices, but you can also write UIs Stuff like that The main thing though is that programming can be very complex and most people when they're having Crestron installed in their offices We'll kind of find that out to a third-party programmer installer That's gonna be important to know later on So yeah the two Or first off the interacts as a programmer with it with the Dices through what's called the CTP console the press on terminal protocol and that's basically the bulk of what this talk is about And then there's also the CIP Service that's kind of how restaurant devices talk to each other and it's like a binary protocol So as far as where you can find Crestron devices basically everywhere I see them a lot in universities, but also like fancy office environments Secure Airports Little thing to say about that later Lots of lots of hotels are putting these in there in the guest rooms To do fancy things like I was saying with the shades and controlling the TV and stuff like that And then of course rich people's houses So this is a screenshot Where they list some of their their major enterprise Customers you can see it's it's all over the place like it's on mobile Amazon Twitter coca-cola Rating on so really like you know, but they've got both of the systems both food and networking systems and They are partnerships with Microsoft. They actually like to point out quite often so basically Crestron is Microsoft's exclusive partner to manage all the meeting and resources worldwide So basically I read that as they are in every Microsoft campus across the world And you know, they're also partnering more and more and just like last week or the week before I want the 20 microsoft global IOT partner of the year award So they you know, they like to talk about that But they also have some other like case studies and stuff on their website. So I grabbed a couple of my favorites over there So here's the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority They use press around devices when they're controlling and communicating with the train lines and stuff Chicago Police Department I don't know if you can see in the picture But there's like a little touch screen on every desk That's a question on the dice And then this is probably my favorite the Virginia State Senate So so like all all of those are Crestron touch screens and they say like yay. Hey, like that's how you vote I like this especially because in the case study they were like trying to do like the secure voting Angle like you want to make sure you're about to secure a lot of the press on And so since we're in Vegas This is a screenshot from a hospitality showcase brochure that Crestron has That basically lists all of the properties On the strip where they use Crestron including Caesar's palace Ariya Dara all the EMT brands they actually have a partnership with the EMT brand So, yeah, there you go. There's that Okay, so that was that was the point As far as products go Kind of their two their two main flagship lines are the three series controllers Which I got one got an MC3 right there And then they've got touch screens which are also very popular And again, I got a TSW 716 right there Those touch screens are being deployed in like a one in every room type type deployments So you can see these in like every conference room in an office kind of thing But they don't just do that they do like a lot of different things I like I could spend an entire career looking at just Crestron things So Platform-wise two main platforms. They've got their Windows platform, which is mostly with a C But I've seen mentions of other versions of Windows and I haven't come across them Apparently they're out there and then the touch screens You are actually Android tablets And they've also got their video processors and digital media streamers that use Linux So, so basically if something I talk about today is specific to the Windows side or the Android side I will try my best to point it out. I have kind of a small sample set So some of them are like Okay, just a little note about the firmware images on them So the MC3 firmware Was basically a smart drive with the wrong images Should be able to emulate it, but I haven't gotten that working yet I used the Dump ROM tool to dump the The file system out of your image There's the file types of the binary's in there Also interesting to note that in the firmware they actually still have like the Windows C debugging tools They let you connect like visual studio to a Windows C device to debug it and stuff It's just kind of interesting to see those still in there And then for the TSW Again, it was the ZIP archive of Android system images So we've had everything you would need to run a full Android system inside the firmware image The system image was an EXT4 file system So I just mounted it and got access to the file system out way There's the file types 32-bit ARM And I did most of my actual in-depth Reversing on this platform because I'm more familiar with that than I am with Windows C By the way, I could give them to do this as a simple cleaner cleaner So I just spent most of my time there I'm gonna use the Windows platform to kind of like, you know, verify some things and then find some other like simple things like hidden commands and stuff Okay, so we know what they are Now we need to be able to find them One of the first things I always look for when I'm starting a new IOT project is a discovery packet And Kreston did not disappoint They have this magic packet I think that might be the CIP protocol I haven't gone into like what the bytes didn't apply or anything because I didn't really need to It wasn't important for my purposes But it would be something that they'll look at in the future So yeah, you send this packet to 41794 broadcast You're gonna also do a unicast which will be important for my next slide But the response you get back from all the Kreston devices contains their hostname model of the firmware version and the build date So We can add it to show you So now you can look for Kreston devices that are connected directly to the internet Usually there's around 20 to 23,000 of these directly connected The results of the models show that it was like the two most deployed devices that were connected directly to the internet Were an even split between a CP3 and an MC3 And for those eagle-eye observers in the audience, that's actually the Las Vegas airport They have a Kreston device connected directly to the internet running at the airport Okay, so All I said What is Kreston? Well, there are a lot of different things running different programs on different platforms in different environments But I did find a couple of universal truths And that's where we get into the good stuff So universal truth number one Unauthenticated admin access to the CTT console by default So the CTT console I mentioned earlier, but it's basically a telnet console Connected or listening on port 41795 And it gives you a lot of Built-in commands that you can run to control different aspects of the controller It's got a sandbox file system So just limited access and you can like upload and download files within that sandbox Off they actually have some really good authentication mechanisms You know, they've got different access levels and active directory tie-ins and encryption But it's all off by default And nobody you know So like I mentioned earlier you kind of like the complexity of these systems is so great that you kind of have to rely on a security conscious programmer To know that they need to enable authentication And they end up like Concentrating more on getting all of the moving pieces working together Then they do like working together and also having to enable security and stuff like that It's just another headache that it just doesn't happen And on top of that it's not exactly One step process either To get authentication enabled So it just never gets turned on So when you connect to the CTT console You get like a little header that tells you what device you're connected to And if you want to know who am I, I'm going to see you as an administrator Okay, so once you get in Basically the standard things, I mean, they give you a lot of commands I'll show you in this demo, but a lot of commands available by default But some of the basic things you can do is change when you bring up different services Like they've got a web server on there SSH.Net, FTP The Android tablets actually have a SIF server running on them To do that, that intercom thing at the door that I was mentioning You can also get access to all of the network info Like the IP address and the MAC address Which is also going to be important in a minute And then you can also do arbitrary file upload within that sandbox Using the FGF file, the FPUB file for HGTTP or FTP file transfers And then they also have X-Modem available if you're old school Then you can also do firmware updates and program updates If you made a program that takes in commands You can send that program commands through the CTT console You can just mess with people by sending different things To on-screen display, like messages And then you can play audio, video files, and whatever Have fun with people So that was fine But I knew that tightening help all and seeing the list of commands That probably wasn't all of the commands that were on the thing So I started pulling apart the binaries for the services And I ended up finding a bunch of hidden commands That are completely un-documented that you also have access to So you can see all of the running processes This is outside of the sandbox All of these binaries are running outside of the sandbox You can also view and modify all of the storage SSL certificates On all of the devices Which could come handy for certain things This one was just kind of funny Dr. Watson is on the Windows CE platform So it could help you with debugging crashes This one I thought was really cool You can actually directly talk to the chips on the board Using an iSquared C So you got your WEPOM, your video decoder and stuff I thought that was cool I've only seen that on Windows CE Actually, I think I've only tried that on my MC3 So I don't know if that's a widely used command or not The real fun stuff that you can do though Is on the Android platform So you've got this browser open and browser close Where you can open up the Chrome browser And direct it to whatever website you want You can also send key presses and touches To the UI of the Android device So essentially like full control remotely Of the Android tablet You can also record audio from the microphone remotely By just running this command You give it the name of a file and the length of time you want to record And it'll dump audio from the microphone to a file That you can download via the FTP on the device You can also control like mic volume and stuff like that So pretty awesome Let's get into our first demo So I think my MC3 is starting to die on me So I have to begin to wake it up Before I can use it There we go This is my scanner It basically sends out the magic probe to the broadcast And it imparts all of the return values that I get And then for each IP address that's sent me a response I'll attempt to open up a connection on their CTP console So I can write my user I am So running that So running that you can see I've got <IP_ADDRESS> It is the MC3 There's the firmware that is running, the build dates And you can see open CTP console And then on <IP_ADDRESS> That's the TSW firmware And the CTP console is open But you'll notice it says oh no And if you look at the binary that handles this You can see it's doing one check for one value And if that check returns false It defaults to unknown So I guess that just doesn't work on Android Linux By form I'm honestly not really sure about that So let's try connecting the MC3 On the bottom of the screen Should I try that again? Can everybody read that okay? So basically if you type help all You can see they give you a huge amount of commands You can run a lot of commands And when I'm going to run I don't know if I even mention to this one But so yeah I can configure You can get the MAC address remotely Even if you're not on the same setup net As a device which is pretty cool Who am I? So I'm an honest administrator So let's connect to the TSW So again huge amount of Of commands available You can see there's a lot of SIP stuff On this one you have access to Media stuff So kind of cool If I do like browser open And you'll see the Chrome browser pop up on there I think And I can do like browser close to close it So kind of cool If I do like DIR You can see this is not the whole file system But this is all you have access to So kind of cool But I'm a very greedy person So you have a significant amount of control Over these devices that they just give to you out of the box But I wanted more So I started looking for ways that I could escape Out of the CTT sandbox and get full control Over the OS So I was looking around at the different CTT commands And I found something interesting Into the SUE command Apparently I wasn't the only one who found this either Which I'll mention in a minute But yeah Something interesting in the SUE command You can see there's like a CR ENG Superuser CR Superuser And then this binary SUPWD generator Thing that they're calling Which leads me to Universal Truth Number 2 Secret Engineer Backdoor Accounts So they had the two accounts CR Superuser and CR ENG Superuser I found out like this week That these were also simultaneously submitted By Justin with a security compass Or Jackson with a security compass Like I seriously had a lot of Vulnerability advisory collisions on this Hardly ever happened to me and these were all Like all of us submitted these within weeks of each other It was really super coincidental and crazy But yeah, shout out So these Backdoor Accounts Are present in all their current products That implement the SUE command, I believe Again, my sample set is a little limited And I think the way they work Is they've got unique passwords for every device Which is like a 16 character Alphanumeric randomly generated password But it's actually algorithmically generated Based on the MAC address of the device Which I already showed you We can get through the CTD console So that would have been The only time you'll ever hear me say They should have hard coded the passwords In the firmware Because if they found some way to hard code the password And just burn it into the firmware If it was unique or nice, that would have been fine Or if they generated it based on something I couldn't get remotely, also fine But instead, they based on something They were only through the CTD console And they included the generator algorithm In the firmware So I was able to reverse engineer the generation algorithm So stick with me here It's complicated So basically you start out with a Shawan digest You populate it with MAC address And a static string For a CR Superuser And for a CR ENG Superuser Depending on which one you're trying to use You have to use the right static string So you take that Shawan digest And you use that as the key For an RC4 cipher with no ID And then you use that RC4 cipher To encrypt the second static string And then the resulting encrypted string And you go through each character of that And modulate it with 62 Which is the length of their character set And then use the result as an index To pick a character out of their character set And then you end up with a 16 character Of a numeric password for your Superuser For that device And if you're super lazy I also implemented it as a Ruby script Or a Ruby function There you go, you can enjoy that Whenever my slides get released Okay, so what can you do With the engineer backdoor accounts So the CR ENG Superuser Enables even more hidden commands So on the Windows CE side You can actually do console debug commands And it'll list out all of the commands Even the undocumented ones So that's pretty handy to have Also on the Windows CE platform They give you access to regedit So you can add a registry of the device And they give you a launch command Which actually lets you execute Any executable on the device Even outside of the sandbox Then on the Android side They've got this tunnelnet port command It gives you options on or off And then it lets you turn tunnelnet on or off But when you do that as the CR ENG Superuser They give you the option Which is tunnelnet debug So when you do tunnelnet port debug It actually opens up a root shell On the device that you can connect to Outside of the sandbox And as far as CR Superuser Actually haven't found a lease For that yet Okay, so Let's go for some more demos Everyone's still with me Okay So what I do with the ANC 3 You can see here's the generating the password Based on the MAC address All that stuff So I connect to the CTD port On the ANC 3 I run eSat which is a command That also gives you a MAC address I parse that out and generate the password For the engineering user And then I basically use the rejected command To disable authentication For tunnelnet And then I launch Tunnelnet 0 And that gave me a tunnelnet shell Outside of the sandbox On the ANC 3 devices And then if we look at The TSW side It was much more straightforward So again Generating the password Running the eSat to get the MAC address And then all I do is run tunnelnet debug And then it opens up a Debugged shell for me Alright, so let's run those Let's try the ANC 1 Let's try the TSW 1 Hopefully both of my demos don't fail This one's cooler anyway Because it's an actual And so now if you can see You're actually Outside of the CTD File system And have full access To all the Good stuff I got out It's actually running lollipop And I gave it a 511 make So kind of I don't know if that will change In the future for our work positions Or not But yeah, so Debugged shells And the back doors, awesome Okay, so that was awesome That was a fun thing to find But also, since it's DevCon We should talk about some RCE walls So I've found 22 command ejection walls On the Android platform I actually had to come myself off Because I kept finding more walls While I was re-causing other walls And it's like I got to get these advisories So yeah, the peening command Wanted to command ejection This is another one of those solutions That I've had out about after the fact But I got Kale and Jordan From map to 7 Also found that one And then Der Was also found by Jackson But then there's also like Advisor, CD, CD Basically anything that takes like a string From the user So kind of a Typical This sub function was actually called quite a bit By various commands So you can see the disassembly And then the decompiled version of that Disassembly on the right You can see it's pretty straightforward Just like You know, build up that string Based on the input you're given And then send it straight to system So super, yeah Super easy I noticed that these commands seem to be You know, programmatically handled on Windows CE So, you know They weren't vulnerable to the same command ejection As on the Android platform I don't know if that's because their programmers Are more familiar with Windows CE Because they've had a longer history with it Or what, don't really ask But yeah, everything was just kind of Punted to shell on Android Instead of handling it in code Most were super simple to exploit Like is there a back takes Whatever commands you want to run back take There were a couple of them that were more difficult I had to jump through some boots to get Exploits out of those So like route add and route delete They take whatever are you at they're giving And they up case it before using it And since this is a Linux based platform Commands their case sensitive And there aren't any useful All uppercase commands That I know of So my first solution was to create a shell script Filled with the commands that I wanted to run And then call it all capital blah And then upload it with that arbitrary file Upload from earlier So I can just get into the sandbox But the upload script didn't have Execute permissions And dollar shell and dollar bash Were not set So I found out I actually learned this While I was doing this So normally when you use dollar zero It gives you a reference to the calling program But apparently when you're doing this From within a system call Dollar zero actually gives you A reference to the shell Which kind of makes sense Because a system like spawns a new process That will be an actual shell So using dollar zero I was able to get a reference to shell So then the final injected string Was dollar zero dollar IFS For an internal field separator Because it all had to be in one argument And then dot slash blah And then it would actually run my shell script I found out much much later That dot is actually a unit command I never knew that before It works kind of like source So I could have also used dot Instead of dollar zero But whatever Whatever works So final demo of my talk So we already got our shell I've got to explain that That could give us another type of root shell But not good enough I wanted to do something different So when I did I used that command injection model To modify one of the config files That controls all of the streaming settings And then I used the command injection again To restart the CSIO service To pick out those changes And then all of a sudden our TSP streaming Started working So I'll show you that in just a second First let me connect to Okay so you've got your file system If you do like I love this example because it's so Immediately obvious that it works All of a sudden there's a test dot TXD in there So if you do like You're injecting commands as root I just love that example Okay so let's run the good part So final mode enabled And in a second we're going to pop up VLC A very important thing to note Is that there's no change On the touch screen to indicate How we're remotely streaming from the webcam And did I mention that these Things are being used in my hotel rooms And so yeah Okay so there's my final demo I think we're doing it on time So let's wrap things up So the potential for good security practice Is there in these devices The problem is that it's just turned off by default So you have to rely on Installers and programmers to do it for you Or if you know that this problem exists Then you can do it yourself Which is kind of one of the reasons why I like giving talks like this It's informing that the problem is actually there But basically bottom line is If security isn't enabled by default Then they get enabled So it really is dependent on a restaurant Making the changes which they have I'll get to that in a second also So yeah this was an interesting situation Because of the types of environments Where these things are deployed It makes it so there's a high potential For use by insider threats So like you've got these things In all of Microsoft's board rooms And let's say Microsoft has a disgruntled employee Somewhere in the world What are the odds of that? So they can actually use things like this Like recording from the webcam On the microphone to do like corporate As you can option like snoop on the board Remediating some stuff And then of course the hotel The hotel room thing So usually you say Oh we're going to put these devices on Their own isolated network So all of the restaurant devices are separate From all the other things But then you have the situation with the hotel room Where just some hotel gas goes into a room With one of these devices Pulls it off, puts it in a laptop And now they can reach all of the other Ones in all of the other hotel gas rooms You know, something to keep in mind Like I mentioned earlier The Android platform seems way less secure Than the Windows CE platform Which caught me off guard at first Because you know, I'm immediately like Oh Windows CE, haha, so insecure But they actually did a much better job On the Windows CE platform Than they did on the Android platform So I don't know if they're just like Starting to spread themselves too thin With moving to different platforms or what But so very, very important slide Crestron has released updates To address all of the issues that I've discussed today I actually got word earlier this week That my advisories for all of this stuff Were finally going to be released yesterday But yeah, Crestron has released updates For all of this stuff And more importantly than that Enable authentication It's a few steps to get it enabled But you should definitely do that Because if the actual Decent authentication mechanisms are enabled Then none of my attacks I couldn't even get into the CTP console To pull off any of my attacks And as usual with these kinds of projects I've got lots of work that I still need to do So there's lots of stuff still on the CTP platform There's way more of ones that I You know, haven't scratched the surface of yet But there's also the simple programming language That might be good audit The POP files, which are the firmware files And then there's a crazy amount of other services Listening on these things also Like CIB, HTTP, SNMP You name it And then of course they've got A slew of other products Like XIO Cloud would be cool to look at Anyways, the last bullet point on this IO ABA Is kind of just like whispered rumors at this point But what that stands for is Internet of Audio Video Alliance So it's a partnership between Crestron, Microsoft, and Intel To make an embeddable device That can go and turn all ABA equipment Into Internet of Things Equipment basically So that's something to keep an eye out for in the future And there you go Those are ways that you can reach me If you have any questions Or just want to chat about stuff


Hi, I'm Leanne Martin. I'm a research associate on the Ocean Studies Board working on this project. I think we could start with our committee introducing themselves and then Liz, if you want to introduce yourself and your crew after. Tricia, pass it off to you. Aloha, I'm Tricia Kehomani Watson. I'm from Honolulu, Hawaii. Sorry, the screen just got big and it distracted me. Nice to meet everyone. Russell. Hi, I'm Russell Smith. I'm a member of the committee. And I am in Washington DC. Angela. Everybody this is Angela Villagones, originally from the island of Saipan and the North American islands but the city called Washington DC. And I worked for an organization called the Center for American Progress. Thank you, Angie. Hi everyone, Angie Dorr. I am based in Oregon. I work for Oregon State University and Oregon Sea Grant and I'm a member of the committee as well. Alexis. Hi, I'm Alexis Valerie Orton. I work for the Ocean Foundation. I'm based in Seattle, Washington, and I am also a member of the committee. Miss Coney here. Hello, nice to see you. Tony McDowell, I'm over there because you're a member of the committee. Thanks. And then our staff, Sue. Hello everyone, I'm Susan Roberts and I'm the director of the Ocean Studies Board and the senior staff on this activity. And Safa. Everyone, I'm Safa and I'm a program assistant for the Ocean Studies Board. And Liz, I'll pass it off to you to introduce everyone. Hello, Liz Turpac. Very glad to be here. I report from NOAA, but I work very much on an interagency basis, managing the federal input to the ocean decade and working very closely with our national committee. So it's absolutely my pleasure to be here and meet you all today. Thank you for giving your time to this course. So let's join my screen and give a little bit of background about this workshop and the academies. One second. Oh, thank you all for joining. This is the inclusive and equitable ocean workshop planning committee. And a little bit about the national academies. The national academies was originally chartered in 1863 to provide independent objective analysis and advice to the nation and conduct other activities to solve complex problems and inform public policy decisions. The national academies consists of the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, and these three bodies individually serve as honorary societies to recognize accomplished scientists in each of their respective fields, and are the operating arm NASA. The national academies has a dual mission to honor top scientists, as well as serve as advisors to the nation on science engineering and medicine. We are a nonprofit and independent organization. And the national academies is not part of the government or an advocate and advocacy organizations for for profit consulting organization. This is just a diagram to show you that the academies are at the three honorary societies oversight. And then here you see the seven programs under the executive office and the division of earth and life sciences or earth and life studies is where the ocean studies board lies under. There are different typical activities that the academies produce consensus studies workshops and communication and outreach products. And this is a workshop training committee. We'll get in a little bit about our process. We just introduced you to our committee we had a number of tremendous nominees for this committee and we considered several factors and our efforts to construct a well balanced and well constituted committee. These include among other things do graphic distributions disciplinary balance. This was a multifaceted effort took a lot of time to create this great committee here and ultimately we're very excited about the group that we have selected. So the workshop process, we had completed our nomination process and now we're in the process of committee meetings, and we will continue to meet until we reach a workshop. And when we have a workshop that will be later hopefully this year will let you know when those dates are. And after that will become a proceedings in brief, and that will undergo a review process and then will be released to the public. And here we'll go a little bit over the statement of tasks for this committee. And this is a part of the ocean decade. This is a team that comes out of our recent cross funding report. And so a traditional informal informational aspect of the decade is its recognition that increasing awareness, understanding and sharing of all the ocean has to offer us can only be achieved through the involvement of a diverse and representative ocean community. So equity, inclusiveness, respect, fairness and scientific integrity are core principles of the decade and must permeate all activities so that in the words of the decade, no one is left behind. The team will further the development of approaches that span the scientific, technical policy management and stakeholder communities to ensure the involvement of diverse groups in ocean science are involved in the challenges of achieving sustainable ocean development. And as you can see under these five different points in this topic, and there are different ocean shots to tie back into this theme. And here's our statement of task. So this planning committee will conduct a public workshop to explore the best practices for an inclusive and equitable ocean. And this will include sharing of stakeholder concerns approaches for broader involvement of diverse communities. And then contributing to and determining needs for ocean science for sustainable development. It'll look at resources and guidelines for furthering inclusion. It'll look at methodologies and metrics for best practices. And look at different examples of programs that have shown success in this year. And at the end of this workshop, like I mentioned, there will be a proceedings of a workshop in brief that will be released afterwards. So that is it. Thank you. Um, I can, that was just a brief background of what we will be working on and I can pass it to Liz to give a little bit more background for it as well. Sadly, I'm going to share my screen in the hopes that I don't break my, my network so stand by while I do this experiment that one must do when making presentations through zoom. Please let me know if you see the slides. Yes, I can see them. Excellent fantastic thank you for letting me know. Um, let me just put this in PowerPoint mode. And it changes my monitor ever so slightly when I try to you slide show there again. So here we are so I'm giving it with apologies to about half the committee who's heard a lot of what I'm about to say before, but I felt like it might be necessary for you to get a sense of why Noah's investing in this now. So that's what I hope to impress upon you so we have that context as you go forward with your work. Um, so let me just proceed to the next slide here so this decade, as you know, decades of things exist because the world comes behind it and thinks it's important to emphasize a particular topic and this particular decade came about over the course of the last 10 years. You know, there was basically a sense that there is consensus being built over the fact that knowledge about the ocean underpins essentially all the sustainable development goals. And so we saw in 2017 this declaration that there should be a decade of ocean science for sustainable development and typically the United States isn't too keen on decades of years of things but in this case we were behind it. We, we invest heavily in ocean observations, and we share that data with the world and we feel it's important that this be a major group project so we saw this as an opportunity to take a big bold highlighter to the importance of knowledge about the ocean. The, the world community tried to conjure up what it intended to do in this decade over the course of several regional workshops and global stakeholder meetings of the course of 18 through 21. And essentially, that yielded a few things I'll go over here, an implementation plan which I can make available to you if you're interested. It basically outlines the who what where and how of the decade at a fairly high level, but it does provide this this action framework which I will get to later in my slides. And, and the most important thing is to get a sense of how how this was devised is essentially the world said, you know, we need to do more science and we should concentrate on specific challenges so there was consensus built around the 10 challenges you see on the screen here. And it's, you know, these high level outcomes are lofty. And I think there's recognition that that the work conducted during the decade towards these outcomes won't necessarily be complete. I mean, fabulous if it works right, but indeed this is just team up a new way of working collaboratively together on these ocean challenges in the vehicle through which the primary vehicle through which the world community is asked to partake in this is to to declare actions that you're going to do so that's that action framework that I mentioned about in the implementation plan. I'm not going to dwell here on the nuances of the, the process by which actions are endorsed, which I could go into that with you later if you're interested but suffice to say that we spend a lot of time thinking about how we get involved with these actions to address these decade challenges in a proportional fashion so that it reflects how the United States feels about the necessity of us of make of making progress on these challenges. I want to go quickly about mechanisms about the decade so there is a decade advisory board and recently our national committee invited the two American reps to that decade board to come and infuse our national committee with with their exposures to how things are being done. And the scientific front. There's also a decade coordination unit which is essentially the secretariat host at the IOC of UNESCO the inner governmental oceanographic commission is the primary ocean science agency in the UN structure. And then of course it's all about money at the end of the day to resource things so there is an effort to mobilize resources and certainly Alexis can speak to that. That's more clearly than I, because I believe the ocean foundation is very much involved in this. So just to give you a quick sense of the governance because you know it is a UN thing so we do spend lots of times thinking about how do we make things aligned with protocol there's essentially as I mentioned before the decade coordination unit which is the secretariat for the decade located at the IOC. It has tried to enhance a decentralized structure by empowering other external types of organizations listed here to help bolster and support actions emanating of the decade. So you'll hear mention of decade coordination offices, collaborative centers, and in these regional organizations and networks that that have really started to take root over the last three of these first three years of the decades so it was interesting because we were we were challenged to try to get ahead of the curve here because we were essentially building the ship while sailing it. And so if things sound confusing. That's because I would say these the structure and this mechanism is still gelling. I think we're getting there but it's it's still not exactly as clear as it could be I think probably by your seven of the decade. Absolutely not least is the national decade committee and so when the implementations plan suggested there be national decade community committees, the United States rolled its sleeves up right away. And so when it comes to coordinating how the United States does decade business, we have a partnership with the national academies that host the US National Committee for the ocean decade and thank you for those of you are committee members on this particular committee. And I just wanted to note that it's not, even though I'm here speaking as a no employee it is not just know who pays attention and leans in on the decade we have an interagency working group with sorry about the alphabet soup here but I can. If you have questions about what any of these acronyms mean I could certainly define them for you suffice to say this is a body underneath the ocean policy committee which is all the ocean agencies in the federal government that come together to contemplate what we can should do in this ocean decade space so they meet at least quarterly or more as needed. So it's an active committee that communicates routinely with the staff of the national committee and in fact I believe it was just a week ago that we provided an update to our national committee about what we're up to. Just to let you know because I am from NOAA also within NOAA we have a task force for the decade that reaches across the line offices so if you're not familiar with no we tend to be slightly scope piped satellites fisheries ocean service research. Anyway, I could go on. We have representation from all those moving parts of NOAA so that when we talk about what NOAA is up to we're speaking with a single voice and we are actually trying to leverage all of the science and services expertise across the agency. So our working group spends lots of time contemplating about these actions that I mentioned. We solicit actions and we work with our national committee to try to get the not just federal agencies because it's got to be all of the United States that leads into this. So thanks to the national committee largely and I'm going to give you credit for that. We have we unfortunately maybe fortunately I'm sorry the United States represents up to 25% of the endorsed actions thus far globally. And what that means to me and we're keenly aware of this is that if the United States doesn't deliver on that 25% that we've indicated we would that will reflect horribly on the United States reputation and intentions so our interagency working group spends time contemplating how do we help resource these actions how do we make sure that administrative priorities online in such a way that will increase the odds of actions being fulfilled. So if you have any questions about this slide I can certainly answer them. We look at how our actions align with the decade challenges so here you can see out of a distribution 71 actions this is how they file up in you just to be clear these numbers are donated to 71 it's you know certain actions applied to multiple decade challenges so but this just gives you a sense of where do we have our foot in the pot how could we think about what more we can do in say spaces where we don't see as many actions being taken so this is what we dwell a lot on and you know when I talk about us ocean decade actions I'm not talking about just federal agencies I'm talking about any American entity we try to pay attention to the whole because to me that is more representative of how the United States is delivering on the ocean decade and that's strictly what the federal government is up to. And then this slide indicates, you know, we, like I mentioned we try to really think about how administration priorities align with the decade and vice versa. And so, as this slide indicates the OCAP the Ocean Climate Action Plan that was recently released by the Ocean Policy Committee. There are synergies throughout their their mutually supportive they're not excluding one opportunity doesn't eliminate the next. And we look to capitalize on that for for what the National Committee jointly with interagency working group intends to achieve over the course of time so what this slide does not talk to are in the Ocean Climate Action Plan there is a table that speaks to cross cutting principles and actions and if you I have at the end of the slide deck that you will have a link to the Ocean Climate Action Plan. And at pages 18 and 19. You'll see cross cutting principles and actions that marry well with the intent of this particular committee. So I would encourage you to take note of what's in there, I will absolutely do everything I can to make sure this committee has access to the subject matter experts who are behind that implementation, such that you have that information and can use that in your planning effort. And today to I unfortunately had hoped to be accompanied by the NOAA subject matter expert on environmental justice been Keita Brown but she ironically is currently attending a Department of Commerce environmental justice working group meeting so she promises to be available to you if you care to speak with her at a future committee meeting. And I believe I have just a slide to say hey I hope this gives you some context I'm glad to answer any questions and oh just by the way at the tail end of my deck. I have a few other slides that may be of interest to give you additional context about the types of things our interagency working group contemplates specific deliverables that I think you should bear in mind. And then of course quick links to other things that I think might be helpful for your work so I will stop sharing and be available for any questions that you might have. Thank you. And if this was too brief. I'm glad to go on further but I'm mindful of the fact you have a lot of work to do so just let me know if there's anything more you'd like more information on. So, can you just tell me I want less information on some of those. I want to tell me what you think as a sponsor success would look like out of this effort. So no problem. To be frank which is the only way I know how to be unfortunately I wish I could be a little more polished the from from. So I have to say that your meeting came up faster than I had chance to consult with some of my know experts on. Let's see what broader nor might think about this I know from a leadership of the ocean decade enterprise which if I didn't, if I wasn't clear about before. So no as the co chair of the interagency working for the ocean decade for those who aren't aware we do that with state and NASA. And I know it's in the best interest of our efforts there that this committee carry forward the thinking and provide greater resolution to the theme. Inclusive and equitable ocean, I think your timing is perfect relative to other things that are happening on the federal front. And I think you can help take the ocean shots. Because all those people leaned in early on when things were very abstract, you can give them some sense that their efforts were not for not. And I think you can increase the odds that we could better couple the thinking of the National Committee with the thinking of the broader ocean science community as to what is crucially what is crucial to do now in this equity environmental justice space. There's never enough that can be done in the space my opinion but you know if we could somehow find what is the. What are the crucial next steps I think that would be incredibly useful for Noah for the interagency. Thank you for asking. Can I can I ask a follow up to that. So, I pulled up the ocean climate action plan. I'm that person if you're referencing something that I don't quite have at my fingertips and then the presentation. I'm going to go ferret and find it. So for these oh cap actions is that where you're talking about you would like a little more guidance and direction is how to implement those in particular like are those. I'm very much a deliverables person like I want to make sure I'm delivering on what your expectations are so when you're saying sort of, you know, put more meat on the bones I guess for some of this is are those in particular these oh cap actions. Is that what you're I mean is it just advanced environmental justice or is it all of this sort of generally these these pages 18 and 19 you were referencing. So, so I feel like I'm going into territory that a little beyond my subject matter expertise as I mentioned earlier, the people you need to talk to specifically about this are the owners of the ocean justice strategy. So it's, there is, there's an environmental justice piece, but, but I recognize that this committee is thinking more broadly and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying that this is one example of how what this committee is up to happens to align perfectly with the government also is trying to put its arms around in a meaningful way and if the outcomes of this workshop can feed into that then I think the better we'll build momentum for investment in this space. Does that make sense. It does. Good. You know, I think just in the interest of collaboration. You know the National Committee was really designed to help us build momentum in the United States for doing something significant with this ocean, this decade of ocean science for sustainable development. And it's that last piece that I think has made this ocean decade so different from a previous decade in the 70s that focused on ocean exploration. It's that link to you know sustainability, which is a lovely word but it's hard to do perfectly, but by golly, it's a worthwhile cause. So I think, you know, there's an opportunity here and the degree to which you can help us articulate the most profitable return on investment what what has to be done, otherwise we won't achieve that objective. You know how do we as your terms of reference even clearly indicate how do we make sure that our ocean decade actions have equity and inclusion is a clear outcome of their efforts like how do we help mature the actions that are currently going forward to optimize, you know, the the utility of the product the the the capacity of countries the capacity of America. I mean, you know it's it's not a simple question to ask I recognize and you know given the breadth of the ocean decade it makes it all the more challenging. So Trisha I respect the fact that you're trying to find something very more narrow and concrete but we're looking to this committee to help us narrowing the scope to some degree. I can't see hands. It's Alexis. Hi. One of the things that you know we as a committee talks about briefly earlier and I'm curious to hear your perspective on is sort of like the users of what this committee is able to contribute and produce in the form of our workshops and report. Do you see Noah wanting recommendations for its own programs or for calls for proposals or examples or do you see this more as something that you would point no as individual staff or partners to to use as a guide. Just trying to help us understand and deliver something effectively that will then lead to more inclusive and equitable ocean science programs. Thank you for asking that question because when I saw land slide about the flow chart showing how the committee works and it results in a publication I was texting my fellow who I think is on the call here Selena Harris. So we need to take that slide and show how that publication is implemented and is ingested and applied and then flows back to actual actions that are resourced see to me that's the thread we're trying what we appear we really want to prove. Not only a pepper but real traction on the ideas that the National Committee has come up with. Do you think that Noah will be able to play a role in helping to kind of implement and disseminate that report do you see that as a role, you would play. Yeah, no no we won't. The idea is to not make this and any byproduct, including this workshop. Just on the shelf. We want this to be to have a life beyond this administration to have you know to make, make an impact we want impact we want to figure out a way to articulate things to be to mobilize that consensus to help with advocacy. Etc. And I don't know that I can state much more without getting myself in trouble. So, thank you. I'm just going to jump in Liz for a minute because I want to clarify something about you know the this committee and what the product is going to be. The point is that we will do a write up of the workshop but it's going to be what people discussed at the workshop it's not going to be a synthesis the way consensus report would be a synthesis and then providing recommendations. So we're really more collecting viewpoints from the community through the through the workshop and providing a summary of those discussions. So for clarifying that. Yeah, resourcing resourcing this particular committee is something Noah is is behind for sure. And generating the products that we can generate at least a synthesis of discussion is still moving the needle forward in our opinion. Yeah, so I know we have, in addition to the committee members we have other participants online and they're welcome to raise their hand and introduce themselves and ask any questions they may have as well. This is amazing presentation so you know, she may have answered all your questions. Hey, just to let everyone know that awesome animated slide credit to my canal fellow. I'd like to call her mine. I know I shouldn't call her mine. She's the world's fellow she Selena Harris. She's fantastic. If you haven't met her yet you absolutely should. Yeah, I've heard of other people on the line but did what I wonder, I can't recall our agenda for today. But I wonder if this is the right time to go back to the terms of reference for our charge here. And maybe that's not the right term. To be sure that we're clear on that because it was a fairly long list of things with some compound complex sentences for my brain to completely wrap around so I don't know if this is the appropriate time. Susan or Leanne to have that discussion or we're going to do that later. Yeah, I don't, I don't think it's a bad thing to start that discussion we may not, we may finish it later but at least we can, we can start. Yeah, but at least on the phone it seemed to me to be, yeah, maybe to have some time on that now might make sense again not to hijack the conversation if there's other things you all need to get through but I'm feeling a little, a little more need for that. And I'm looking at the description provided on the website for this meeting for this committee. This one right here. I put in the chat window. What have Leanne's lives to. Yeah, it's my side if you want, I thought it would be helpful. But Liz is a good put in the statement of pass and then. Yeah, Tony why don't you go ahead with your question. Can I have it up my brain like I said. That was part of the problem. Okay, we'll share. Maybe it's literally just a meter of reading it more slowly so. Okay, so there's like about a long clauses here. I just was dry remember the best practices and I just mentioned that because it did come up in our earlier discussion that some committee members in general thought that was a bit of an opportunity here so I'm just with one takeaway and listening to this. Okay, I'm going to open it up to the rest of the committee to look at this. Maybe you all have digested it. More than I have, but I wondered if anybody had any, any more specific questions about this statement of pass. So this, the very specific participants were typically asked all the suggestions for actions that incorporate inclusion and equity into the, into the top of the themes as part of the process. We're developing an employee research so that's something I just want to highlight because I did feel like that was reflected a little bit in our back and forth that wasn't entirely clear to me that it does sound like we have an obligation. So if you can think about how, how is it cross cutting theme, we're out of this more particularly will be used across the other, other topical themes as well again that was said but again it didn't settle entirely into my brain. Again, we're also moving forward trying to figure out what the scope, but also what the, what the, what the, you know, how can we more focus this given that it is something that could easily explode around us. Yeah, those are the questions I had I just really needed a little more time to guess that I will look at it again after this call but I just wanted to make sure in case anybody else on the committee needed any clarification on this statement of task at this point. Tony and reading it again with your help of focusing I think what's coming through me is that it's really about the discussions at the workshop as covering all these topics but not that we will like Susan said it'll be just a report out of what people said rather than like our set of recommendations right so just that we want to facilitate and ensure that these discussion points are covered by our participants but that we won't be trying to reach any consensus or synthesize them and but this last sentence about sort of the next to answer Liz's question about kind of what happens next that there potentially will be a next phase where some members of the committee or participants will then kind of work on the integration of the discussions in maybe maybe slightly more actionable ways, but it seems like our job is just to tee up the discussions and make sure the right people are in the room. And I would add to that Alexis that I think one of the functions of the workshops will be to make the resources that are available now, more accessible to the community that may not be aware of these resources that they can tap into. So I see that as another function of the activity. Good morning all. I don't see on my screen way to raise my hand so I'm sorry for interrupting but I'm Scott Miller in the Alaska region of no fisheries presently currently the Arctic policy advisor to Dr Kelly Chris the Deputy Under Secretary for International Fisheries and this is all new to me and I may be speaking out of turn but there are major initiatives happening in the Alaska Arctic with regard to inclusion and a lot of the things that you're talking about. I wonder if, and I will talk with Liz educate myself more obviously do not have a flavor for all of this right now. But the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council has several action committees, looking at local and traditional ecological ecological knowledge climate task force. There are there are major changes happening. Major changes. I've been here for more than two decades. And a shout out to, to Mr Obama's from Saipan I lived in Saipan for five years, and myself is still home ported there, quite frankly, but changes are happening in this administration in the way that we embrace communities that have possibly been under heard, if you will, in the past, and I think that I definitely take to heart the concept of wanting deliverables I'm a contracting representative as well so I, I work in the mindset of deliverables and I'm thinking that as a suggestion, your committee may really want to reach out to the Alaska region, we have a new tribal coordinator and I can provide a contact information. She's so new that I haven't actually met her yet, because I work in a virtual environment. But we also have a major emphasis in the in the council process right now. These issues revolve largely around salmon bycatch which I spent a career working on trying to reduce and or eliminate. But also other other issues of inclusion issues of how we take public testimony issues of membership on advisory panels and such. I will say in my more than two decades with no fisheries. This is the most comprehensive change paradigm shift, if you will, that I've seen, not scientific, not biological with people. And I think ultimately that's what this is all about. So I will, I will just add that those two cents there, and very interested in this very new to it definitely naive about all that you've done and done so far, but very interested and I will offer my time to anyone who wants to reach out to me. So, thank you. Yeah, that's great. I'm sorry, I just wanted to find out Scott will definitely tag up after to make sure you have all you need to know and and that the committee can connect with you as soon as possible. For more detail or any of your contact. Great. Yeah, I'll take it on as a fourth job. Thank you so much, Scott, because I think, yeah, I'm the examples you gave really sound so relevant to what this planning committee is going to be undertaking. Just out of curiosity. This statement of task has not actually been vetted cross with no leadership at all yet so so in the interest of us. Is there space for meaning time actually week. Can I have a week. But just get back to you if there's any major part burn on any of this or major tech changes that we recommend to this committee. Certainly there's that opportunity I will say that there is a process, you know, if it is a major change in direction that would require an institutional review. So just to let you know. So yeah, ASAP is would be a recommendation for that. Okay, it is, it's, you know, it's based on the recommendations of the committee that read the, the cross cutting themes report. Just like I say, you know, give, give them what Scott just mentioned and the fact that there is a subject matter expert at NOAA in this space. I don't want you to not benefit from, from that input. So, so thank you. Yeah. I'm hearing clarifications. I think Tony said that what he imagined is that there could be further clarifications as opposed to changes in direction. Yeah, but I guess that you know the other opportunity is certainly to contribute ideas for the committee's activities. And thinking about, you know, what to cover in the workshop and, you know, potential speakers and perhaps even mechanisms for, you know, incorporating a broad community of ideas would be certainly welcome. I have a quick comment. My name is Allison Myers and I run a team of scientists working on seaweed for CO2 removal. Several points. One is I want to commend NOAA for the recent opportunity to work on that because it's very far in advance and it's very needed, because we need to remove CO2. One of the big things, one is, I'm not a scientist, and yet I lead a team of scientists. I started out as an oyster farmer who happened to observe things going on in a system with runoff and seaweed growth and just had ideas. So I think this issue of diversity and inclusion is important because people out in the field, whether they're fishers or mechanics or whatever they may be, they have ideas. And I think it's a very big challenge of how to bring them in. So I found my way through bureaucracies and funding calls that I knew nothing about. And yet here we are working on a big idea. I think two things. One is the US government seems to be requiring inclusion in teams, working on research. It seems to be new and I think it's great. One thing I would like to see is educational efforts when there's innovation and research going on in an area for there to be more grassroots education, or at least availability of lectures or what have you, to local populations, because they may have ideas on how to solve problems. The seaweed we work on comes into the coast. It smothers seagrasses and mangroves. It needs to stop. I'm working on sargassum. I have ideas, practical things, contributions to make to the work. So thank you for allowing me to be here today, not being a scientist, but working very hard to address climate goals. So, thank you. Thank you, Alison. And actually, if you would like to send us your contact information for for future activities that would be welcome. Happen to help happy to help any way I can. And so I think we can take down the statement of tasks now. So we can see everyone. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Any other comments or questions? Such a quiet group. Surprise. Okay, well Trisha, I don't know, perhaps as the chair you'd like to have the last word today. I typically do, but I'm mostly in my just trying to listen and wrap my arms around this and give everybody some time but I do think we're very excited I think we have lots of wonderful work ahead of us. And maybe a question and then a final word. So, we have a bunch of people who are on the call right now that are not on our committee. What is the expectation for your folks is involvement like are your folks participating in the workshop like or is it just your sponsor I just want to make sure like we're clear as to I mean, because there's, I mean, obviously a bunch of people who joined who I think would be great participants and have a lot to offer. So I'm just trying to understand those expectations. Yeah, and we certainly have time for people to introduce themselves if you're willing to do that. I would appreciate that. Yeah. Hey, can we start with Selena, since she's already been mentioned today. I'm not sure if my camera will work. I'm having a little bit of technical issues and didn't want to troubleshoot it so much and cut off the meeting. Hi everyone, I am Selena Harris, I am a canal fellow I'm currently working with us to peck on the ocean decade. So my involvement will probably stay from that side but I'm very happy to be here and hear about what's going to evolve from this process. Okay, thank you Selena and I'm just going to go in the order I say on my screen and the next is Jules. I'm Jules with ringer. I'm a really great liaison for the National Committee. And I've really enjoyed the conversation today. It's nice to meet everyone. And Louise Vega. Louise are you able to unmute and introduce yourself. Yeah, perhaps not. Okay, let's see next I have ash. If you're able to unmute and introduce yourself. Okay. Thank you for coming down the list. Cynthia. Okay. Good afternoon. My name is still markets Robinson. I'm also a canals fellow in the White House Council on environmental quality and the water conservation team. So my joining my input or joining of this meeting was the fact that with the ocean climate action plan we have the ocean justice strategy that we're currently trying to develop. So I was wanting to hear different ideas and perspectives as we're kind of also trying to, you know, put the put the wheels on the on the truck. So, but I would like to know stay connected in and be part of the conversation and the workshops going forward. Yeah, excellent. Very welcome. And let's see I think we're on Ziddle. If you'd like to introduce yourself. Okay. Next, Paul Ehrlich. Okay, maybe I don't know if people are not able to unmute or quite way. They're not there, but let's see also have Preston DeVasio. Now I know it's been so quiet though. Preston, somebody else also unable to unmute. Okay. Yeah, sorry for the technical difficulties there. But we certainly welcome you to keep in touch with us. We have email always. And, and so we were able to sort of let you know about upcoming meetings of this group and of course the workshops as they, as they come to fruition. So I see you have something in the chat. Do you want to talk about it? Okay. All right, well we'll save the chat and certainly share that also with the committee. So it looks like Jules was unable to unlike to in her current workspace. I do see that Jules did ask a specific question or made a specific suggestion and I don't know what the thinking is on that so maybe we can respond to that. Okay, yeah, so I can read it out for those who may not be able to see the chat. So this is from Jules and she says something I've been thinking about when I'm writing myself and statement of task I think there could be two sort of streams to this work. One that has to do with building an inclusive and equitable marine workforce and the other to move forward with research and conservation that is based in local inclusive and equitable stakeholder community leadership. I like that a lot. Actually, I mean I, and I think it was, it sort of takes off in some of the discussions we were having in the session before this. So, yeah, I do think if we can find a way to pull that language into the next discussion we're having that would be something to further discuss and I think does speak to why I would like, you know, to find a way to keep a lot of the people on this call involved because it does seem this is everybody working in this space and I'm a big fan of well inclusive discussions. Angie. Awesome. Sorry, it didn't the screen popped up that asked if I wanted you to unmute me and I'd already unmuted myself so I was just going to say I also like that idea Jules and I can just say as a little bit of background from being on the cross cutting themes committee where we came up with these themes. Kind of the goal of this committee that includes an equitable ocean equitable and inclusive ocean I can remember which order it goes in is to provide some sort of some guidelines for the, the other themes. And the idea is both that it will that it will take on both those perspectives that the research that's conducted will include diverse voices and be more inclusive, broader reaching, you know, community engaged type things. But also that some of the outcomes will be will be more inclusive as well. So, I like that idea, or the way you phrased it and I just want to say it's very much in line with the idea of this being a foundational theme that will influence the other themes, because that is kind of the goal there. Okay, anything else. Yeah, I'll mention one other thing Tricia, since we have the opportunity. And that is that the National Academies and particularly through the ocean studies board is developing another study related to this topic and it's on diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, accessibility and justice in ocean studies. And so that's, that will be a full consensus study, it'll be an in depth look at the issue more from the workforce lens, then, then what we've scoped for this particular workshop, it's not connected to the ocean decade, the way that this one is. And we're hopeful that that consensus study will get off the ground later this year. So we have about half of the funding at hand and the rest of it has been promised. So, we're very excited to get that one going. But I think there's going to be some, you know, certainly some crossover between these two activities in various ways.  I think we very much look forward to continuing to have input from all of you, those who are not formally on the committee but obviously come with a tremendous amount of experience and talent and I think it'd be very valuable to this process so just thank you again, everybody. Sue, back to you. Okay, well, thank you. And thank you for me to land for really organizing this, this meeting today and really working so hard to put together this fabulous committee. And we really look forward to working with everyone on these work on the workshop activity. And touch to so you know check out our website and for all the latest updates.


What's up guys and welcome to one take I'm gil and today we're talking about dark season 3 episode 2 titled the survivors this video will of course have spoilers through season 3 episode 2 But that's as far as I've watched into the season So no spoilers for the rest of the season Overall, I continue to love this show and I'm so bummed that it's coming to an end What struck me most about this episode is how well dark is able to balance character development and sci-fi intrigue Some scenes are dedicated purely for example to Exploring Tront Nielsen's family drama other scenes are dedicated to Delving into the sick mundus mythology and its origins But both are interesting and everything in the show has a solid through line of emotion Running through it. So I haven't seen anything quite like this in the past And I'm really going to miss this show But without further ado, let's jump into the details of the episode And I'll break it down year by year and character by character to kind of keep track of everything Also, I should know everything we saw in this episode I'm assuming took place in our world with the exception of the final scene Between Jonas and the older Marta starting out in 1888 our world Marta wakes up Older Jonas is there waiting for her Holding the letter that supposedly came from Marta. He introduces her to Bartosz Magnus and francesca They're excited to see her until Marta explains again that she is not from their world She is not their Marta and then she says I promise to make everything right again So none of it happens in that moment I really feel the tragedy of her character because it seems that she and Jonas are fated to over and over Fight to erase all the horrible things that have happened And you get the feeling that they've gone through this cycle so many times How many times have you heard younger Jonas say this older Jonas and older older Jonas as Adam So you just feel that endless fight against something that seems unstoppable And I particularly felt it here when Marta tearfully tells them She's trying to do the same thing then there's a really interesting moment where Jonas asks Marta How she knew about them and she claims that Jonas told her where to find them Jonas says you're lying. I never went to your world And she claims that Jonas Went to her world and told her about them. So like I said Jonas accuses her of lying He asks if Adam sent her and asked how she traveled What did she travel with and then an older man an older blind man shows up who we later learn Is an older townhouse now the reason I found that line so fascinating is because throughout the series It's never been clear if we're ever seeing something that deviates from a previous cycle They keep telling us you really can't change the past. Maybe you can tweak it here and there But it seemed like everything that's occurred in the series so far Older Jonas remembers if younger Jonas does something older Jonas remembers it Meaning younger Jonas is simply going along the predetermined path that has already occurred in a previous cycle This appears to be the very first super clear Not questionable example of the past being altered because younger Jonas Told Marta where to find them older Jonas doesn't remember it My theory at the moment, and I'm sure this will evolve over the next six episodes Is that it takes 33 years for the world to sort of reset itself? So for example a certain set of events occurred which the older Jonas remembers Young Jonas can deviate from that path and older Jonas can continue to exist remembering his version of events But eventually there will be a sort of reset where this new cycle catches up and becomes a status quo Where this older Jonas will be replaced with a version of older Jonas that recalls the new path that the current iteration Of younger Jonas followed But i'm sure a lot of you that have already binged season three you already know if i'm right or wrong about that So we'll find out later Bartosz visits Marta and apologizes for Jonas's behavior He says that Jonas has been acting differently ever since they arrived in 1888 He goes on to explain that they ended up here by accident in 1888 And they are out of nuclear fuel, which is kind of hard to come by in that day and age So there's stranded there Bartosz then takes Marta To the sick mundus lair and explains a little bit more about what's going on Meanwhile older townhouse asks Jonas if Marta is one of them one of these travelers And he can tell Jonas is very upset by the arrival of this visitor So he tells him don't forget what we're creating a paradise And then we see on his cane a very familiar phrase And he says it out loud sick mundus creatus est So we begin to realize that this is where it all started This is the beginning of the sick mundus cult And seeing how cold Jonas is you can start to see his transformation into adam into the villain It's sort of reminded me of Star Wars back in the day seeing Jake Lloyd play a young Anakin and then Hayden christiansen playing the middle-aged Anakin So Jake Lloyd is young Jonas Hayden christiansen is middle-aged Jonas And both Anakin and Jonas turn into a very scarred bald older gentleman So some definite parallels there, but I think dark is doing it way better It is very believable the transformation of the innocent young Jonas We saw at the beginning of the series at first you wonder how in the world Can he turn into what seems to be evil adam? And it's totally believable the way they're doing it So back to Bartosz and Marta in the sick mundus lair Bartosz explains that the older man the blind man is an older townhouse His father thought that they could break the rules of space and time He was essentially trying to build a time machine This townhouse that we see here is carrying on his father's work Jonas has seen this secret sick mundus lodge in a future time And Jonas is trying to rebuild things the way he saw them And then Bartosz asks Marta who adam is and Marta reveals that adam is Jonas So Jonas apparently did not tell his friends who adam is and the fact that he grows up to become adam I'm sure that will be a source of some strife in the group And it'll be a pretty interesting conflict to see it play out And the implication here is that adam francesca and magnus have been hanging out here since 1888 And became the versions of them we saw in 1921 when Jonas was visiting adam But big question mark here what happens to Bartosz in that time? He is one of the few characters where we have not been given a glimpse into his future Does he die? Does he become a character where we don't know he is that older character? Has adam been lying? Maybe Bartosz is adam I don't think it's going that way, but with this show You never know at the same time what we saw of 1921 may not be a done deal Like I alluded to earlier. I think we may be seeing a break from the previous cycles And adam kept talking about a loophole is the other world the existence of this alternate reality The loophole he was referring to marta's arrival in 1888 does that deviate them from the predetermined path And does that mean Jonas might not become adam and sick mundus may not become what it does in our cycle That's everything we see in 1888. So let's jump to 1987 and check in on katerina at the end of season two We saw her crawl into the cave and go back in time in search of michelle It turns out she hasn't been able to find him. She's in the conwald residence But enes and michael slash michelle are missing Now I never get sick of seeing characters delve into time travel for the first time Explore the past bump into their younger self It's especially fun to see how dark will play Within the boundaries because generally speaking when a character goes back in time They're not going to do anything that alters what we've already seen in the present So it's really fun to see how they play within those boundaries katerina goes to school and starts handing out flyers of A missing michael conwald looking for her son She bumps into younger ulrich and he mentions the madman and he says maybe he got him after all Then katerina bumps into a younger self and hannah Hannah reveals a little bit more information and explains that a madman who we know is older ulrich escaped from an institution and went after michael Then she coldly tells hannah to keep her hands off ulrich and michelle I have to say I felt kind of bad for hannah here as much as she is a manipulative and horrible person in certain ways She is just a child here and she's being essentially attacked by someone who's been harboring Anger that's been growing for 30 years and imposing it on her So felt bad for her in that moment then katerina heads to the police station And pester's one of the cops there Trying to get some information In the police station. We see a flyer by the way calling for witnesses on egon's death And a missing persons poster for claudia. So katerina begs the cop He's reluctant clearly she's bugged him before And he finally gives her a little kernel of information Saying that iness and michael conwald are essentially in hiding Child protective services knows where they are and the madman that katerina asks about Is in the closed ward where he's been for 34 years So katerina heads to the institution in search of ulrich And begs the woman behind the counter to let her in to see ulrich that woman by the way is Katerina's mother helena at first helena refuses until katerina points out the necklace that helena is wearing That is the necklace of st christopher katerina says my mom had one just like it I've traveled a long way that seems to rattle something and helena and she gives she lets katerina go in to see ulrich And they have a brief interaction ulrich is of course very upset and katerina promises ulrich as she'll get him out of there Ulrich is such a heartbreaking and tragic figure And i'm so curious to see what the conclusion will be to his character arc We don't know a lot about his internal mental state When he is this older virgin of himself We know he has still very much held on to that anger towards egon But how does he look back on the way he treated katerina and hannah? Is he apologetic? Does he regret it? Has he become a better person? That's what i'm wondering and i would love to see him get some sort of redemption because he has just been such a tragic figure and you've got to Know how horrible and awful his life has been these 33 years being separated from his son And of course the saint nicolas medal is an important one Because jonas and marta found it by the lake marta turned it into a necklace which she gave jonas An older jonas put it on marta's pillow to let her know that he has returned after disappearing In 2019 and then we see adam holding on to that necklace So i'm wondering how marta's grandmother got a hold of it or did marta's Grandmother somehow hand it down and they ended up at the lake Or is there some kind of a time loop where marta in the future gives it to Helena i'm sure we will find out later in the season then helena returns home and she is somewhat abusive We know that she gave katerina as a teenager some bruises After she had that difficulty with ol rick when hannah falsely reported to the police that ol rick Forced himself on katerina So helena smacks young katerina on the back of the head and tells her to clear the table So as always dark does a great job of giving a sort of double character development Where we're following older katerina while also learning more about her younger self And how she became the hardened individual that can really take care of herself that she is now Now let's stay in 1987 but check in on tront and jannah They are at mad's funeral where they're burying an empty coffin While there jannah sort of makes a scene by telling everyone That tront was having an affair with claudia the night that mad's disappeared She also points out tront's current obsession with tracking down claudia who of course Disappeared the day her father died We know that she transported herself to 2020 to ride out the apocalypse in the bunker This show does such a fantastic job of taking characters who are minor at first And then delving into them to add a ton of depth For example claudia and egon weren't very prominent in the first season But took center stage in season two added a lot more depth to those characters And now we're doing the same thing for jannah and especially tront And i'll shout out a few moments that i thought worked Emotionally really well for tront so tront in his search for claudia goes to speak to her assistant jasmine And asks if she noticed anything strange about claudia in the week before she disappeared Jasmine reveals that claudia was a very well put together well-addressed person But in that week sometimes she wore the same outfit twice And she was sort of starting to fall apart Everything changed She said when the older woman showed up with the dog and strangely the older woman We know that's an older claudia said that the dog was hers But left the dog behind when she left now i love that attention to detail I love the fact that jasmine noticed Her claudia saying that the dog is hers and then leaving it behind I feel like other shows and movies wouldn't give their characters That much intelligence and that much attention to detail and that is just something i love about this show Sometimes on shows like lost for example It would feel like to some degree the mystery was maintained because characters wouldn't ask the right questions Even though we know in real life, we would definitely ask those questions So it feels like dark just isn't cheating and it treats us intelligently and i love that Then tront is driving along and he sees regina claudia's daughter With claudia's dog and he offers to give her a ride while they're driving tront asks regina If claudia said anything about him before she disappeared And regina said no and then tront kind of distantly says I just thought maybe she'd said something Then regina gets uncomfortable asks him to drop her off and she'll walk the rest of the way He says if you need anything again This is a moment where I thought they did a great job of adding depth to tront's character And it bringing this sense of tragedy to him when he finds out that claudia didn't say anything about him before disappearing I think he's starting to realize that claudia intentionally left she wasn't kidnapped or anything like that And he wasn't really on her mind before she disappeared So a tragic and sad moment for him.  I don't know if we've ever seen this concept done in this way before The idea of three iterations of the same person Very creepily working together from different times Works very well and his motivations at this point are very unclear My only guess is that they come from the other world And they're working with the older marta in a similar capacity as noah works with the older jonas Or adam But what exactly they're doing is not yet clear Back home tront sees jenna and jenna says at some point you need to decide for us or for them And jenna wonders aloud without saying it exactly if tront is regina's father And it's unspoken but all but confirmed that tront is regina's father Who he fathered with claudia. He tells jenna. You're right. I have to choose then takes her hand And seems to decide that he is going to stick with jenna And of course during the montage we get a split screen shot of tront and jenna on one side And mads on the other this show especially during these montages Is so good at breaking your heart and I just have to shout out again How great a job it does at blending human drama with just fascinating science fiction Bravo to dark Now fast forward still in our world to a post apocalyptic wind in in 2020 starting with claudia We see claudia taking care of regina Trying to help her survive through her cancer Then we see her putting her board together So we've seen the board she keeps in the bunker with the pictures of all of the townsfolk How they're all connected and we've seen this wall before Back in season two. We've seen the older claudia looking at it in the bunker I have to say by the way, we've seen this trope before in other shows Where characters are trying to crack a case wide open And they put all the newspaper articles and pictures on a big wall Connect them with string and they always wonder if that would actually help This is the one show where 100 it would help and make sense Because it's so hard to keep straight the complicated family trees Especially when you introduce the concept of time travel When I was doing my recap for the first couple seasons of dark I essentially had to put together my own similar board So it definitely helps and by the way, I do want to just quickly plug I did put together an epic two hour Super detailed recap of seasons one and two of dark If you need a reminder of everything that happened before season three And I'd highly recommend it because it makes it so much easier To spot the easter eggs and just keep track of what's going on So I'll throw a link in the description and a card in the corner of the screen If you want to check out that big recap Anyway, claudia, we see her leaving a recording the one that jonis heard in 2053 Where she says that the god particle if stabilized could be a way to travel back in time And save everyone while claudia is away Tront pays a visit to his daughter regina and then he says i'm so sorry But it has to happen. She said it's the only way to save you and then he takes a pillow And suffocates and kills his own daughter as if tront's character wasn't tragic enough Knowing that his Lover has disappeared his daughter is estranged from him Now decades later without reconciling with her. He needs to kill his own daughter And the she in question that told him he has to do this I'm assuming is the older claudia We know that the older claudia has come to believe that events need to play out exactly as they did in the previous cycle So that everything can be reset and things can be done in a better way where Everybody lives happily ever after i'm assuming But we i'm assuming will learn more about her master plan That is just about it for regina and claudia this episode So let's stay in 2020 post apocalypse and check in with peter and elizabeth Peter takes elizabeth to the containment site. They're there to see if charlotte or francisca have been found Also, noah is creepily following them Inside the containment site. They look at a board with images of all the Dead bodies that have been found. We see woeller with his one eye We see clausen, but we don't see francisca or charlotte So peter takes that to mean It's possible that his wife and daughter elizabeth's mother and sister Could still be alive. We of course know that elizabeth's sister francisca is stranded in the late 1800s And her mother slash daughter charlotte is in 2053 peter and elizabeth head back to the conwald household Where peter scanning with his geiger counter decides to check things upstairs While he's upstairs noah shows up and starts talking to elizabeth noah tells elizabeth that he's looking for food He asks her what she's looking for and she writes on a piece of paper She's looking for mom and sister then she asks noah where he's sleeping. He writes down cave elizabeth holds onto that note and it seems to take on some meaning for her Then peter shows up and tells noah to leave and to stay away from them Noa tells peter you want to protect her. I know so do I and I will After you were killed Very cruel line from noah here. He is the one character Well, one of the few characters where I really haven't felt much sympathy for him Maybe a pang of sympathy when he visits charlotte last season and sees how awful She thinks he is Charlotte says to him you killed the children and he basically explains. I hope one day you'll understand I had to do that so I could create a reality where I didn't do that He's following The similar line of thinking as the older claudia. I need to do all these horrible things So one day we can essentially reset into a better world So maybe I started to feel a little sympathy for him But then he said something awful like that to peter After you were killed Meaning it's a done deal. You are destined to die And that is just awful and I feel very bad for peter there later Elizabeth asks peter what noah said to him. He doesn't reveal it. She gets frustrated saying she's not a kid anymore Demands to know why peter carries that trichetra notebook around with him everywhere Where is my mom? Where is francesca? They shove each other and peter tries to comfort her by saying We'll find them and again just very sad to see peter trying so hard To care for elizabeth knowing he probably doesn't have much time left And during the montage elizabeth is holding that piece of paper that says mom and sister Cave the notes she exchanged back and forth with noah Like I said, I think it's taken on some meaning for her And it plans to seize for the relationship that we know is going to occur Between elizabeth and noah the one that ultimately produces charlotte speaking of whom fast forward to 2053 charlotte is looking at a photograph of elizabeth and noah Holding charlotte as a baby a photo we've seen before And i'm assuming by this point charlotte knows the truth And it's still trying to process it all the truth being That elizabeth is both her daughter and her mother Elizabeth and charlotte have a quiet moment together where elizabeth says everything will be okay charlotte puts her head against elizabeth to sort of comfort her and that's a similar gesture We saw back in season one where elizabeth does the same thing to charlotte Before elizabeth goes missing for a little bit now. That's everything we see from our world in this episode Let's jump over to marta's world So we're in older marta's lair sort of a heritake on the sick mundus lair We see a painting of adam and eve and i am just waiting for the revelation That older marta goes by the name eve. I'm assuming we're going to get that but we'll see Older marta explains to jonis that the world ends in both of their worlds Things might not happen the same way or at the same time But they happen and speaking of not happening at the same time She reveals that the apocalypse takes place on her world In just three days. So that's about seven months early compared to our world in our world the apocalypse hit in june 2020 it looks like in their world. It hits november 2019 Shortly after the night michelle didn't disappear on their world. Anyway, that about wraps it up for episode two of dark I Love this show. I thought this was another great episode And I kind of hate the fact that they released the whole season at once Because as much as I want to pace myself and watch it over the course of weeks I know i'm not going to be able to do that. So i'm going to go ahead and binge the show But in between every episode i'll come back here and give you my recap give you my thoughts So make sure if you enjoyed this video hit the like button Hit the subscribe button and hit the bell icon so you get notified the next time we release one of these videos And I should also note that like I said, we'll be doing these pre-recorded Reviews after each episode, but it will all culminate once we've finished the season We're gonna do a live stream So make sure you're subscribed so you can join the live stream Be part of the conversation where we try to hash out everything we saw Breakdown our theories our favorite moments of the show You won't want to miss it. And by the way, I keep saying i'm going to be so bummed once this show is over Dark was created by a filmmaker named baron bow odar who's done a few movies that were pretty well received In germany once we get through dark. I do plan to dive into his film library So that's just one more reason why you'll want to make sure you're subscribed So you can follow along as we follow everything else. This guy's done And we'll follow whatever he does in the future Because I've got to assume whatever he does after dark will also be awesome. So with that, I'll just say thanks for watching And see you on the next one take