Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live 2020. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back to Barcelona, Spain, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we're here day one for us at Cisco Live Barcelona, even though we did a little game preview yesterday. My good friend Ken O'Reilly is here. He's the director of customer experience at Cisco, and he's joined by Kyle Winters, a technical marketing engineer for the customer experience technology and transformation group at Cisco. Guys, great to see you, thanks for coming on. We love talking customer experience. Cisco is a big company, big portfolio, there's a lot of complexity for clients, and so bringing it all together and customer experience is very important. Ken, we had a conversation with Alistair early today, and he was talking about Cisco's commitment from the top, Chuck Robbins on down, to really improve that customer experience, bring essentially a digital virtual experience to your customers, and you guys obviously fit into that. Right, absolutely, so about two years ago when Chuck brought in Maria Martinez, that was the first step into really pushing Cisco to focus more on successful outcomes for customers. So we had already always sold that way, but with the complexity of technology and how fast technology is moving, accelerating value realization for customers has never been bigger, especially in the security space, because as we've talked before, with everything that goes on today and the fact that the bad guys are trying to get data faster, quicker, and different, getting the technology in play, operational, and production has never been more important. And we're going to dig in with Kyle with some detail and double click into the life cycle specifically and the different points of that journey, but that's really important for any customer experience, is really understanding that life cycle, that maturity model, can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, so with us, you know, we've been at it for about six years when we started as LandCope. So we've got a great model, and you know, our approach to getting outcomes for customers is completely in line with the strategy of our products and technologies and all of security. So it's really important that you align with that strategy because salespeople sell, and they sell you the what? We sell the how we're going to get you. And so you have to understand what it is that customers need and how that technology maps, because you don't want to shelf wear, and you don't want products or technology sitting there waiting to be implemented because, you know, these days, especially with the move to the cloud, it's got to get up and running, you know, within an hour. So our model has always been that way. We built our model with customer first, and so we are, you know, we are the security experts. We're the trusted security advisors. So when we go in and work with customers, we completely know exactly those outcomes that they need, and with all the sort of technologies and products that we have, not only with StealthWatch, but the other products that send telemetry to us, we have, and Kyle will talk about, how our services completely align with those outcomes and the journeys that we will take our customers on. Yeah, so faster adoption means faster time to value, obviously. Let's focus in on StealthWatch. You came in with the StealthWatch acquisitions, been very successful.  We'll talk more about the sort of umbrella, but let's drill in with Kyle to StealthWatch services specifically. Maybe you could sort of take us through, you know, at a high level what the areas are, and then we can sort of follow up on individual aspects. So our customer maturity model, when it comes to services, there's kind of three different stages to it. It starts with the visibility stage. So we have services around being able to deploy an operationalized StealthWatch. We'll bring in our best practices and help customers get up to speed and using the system quickly and efficiently. From there, we also have services around detection capabilities. So being able to use automation and integrations to further the detection capabilities of StealthWatch. Things like being able to classify host groups through automation from sources like IP address management systems. Things like asset discovery and classification service that help drive segmentation efforts. All of these things help improve the behavioral algorithms and processes that StealthWatch is using to detect these threats in real time. And then from there, we have an integration stage as well too, which is all about bridging the gap between StealthWatch and the rest of not only Cisco's portfolio, but the entirety of our customer security portfolio as well. And some of those services include things like SIM integrations, being able to integrate StealthWatch with Splunk. We have services such as our proxy integration service as well, a lot of different types of services that we're able to help get our customers to the next stage with their StealthWatch environments. All right, I got a lot of questions. So maybe we can take it to it and you guys can help us understand. So let's take it by stage. So you have the sort of visibility. That's where you start. That's where you do the discovery, right? So what are you discovering? How do you actually do that discovery? So a lot of that is about making sure that we've got all the flow and telemetry that we need from the various different sources of our network coming into StealthWatch, feeding into the processes and algorithms that are going on there. So a lot of things is not only net flow data, but getting ICE integrated in there as well, being able to pull that user attribution data in, being able to find sources of data where we maybe can convert it into net flow if it's not already net flow and be able to ingest that data as well. We also, in that phase, typically too, help set up customers with a lot of different best practices that kind of get them operationalized very quickly. And things like being able to build custom reports and dashboards for them, we'll work through them which is kind of understanding the system from a base level to more of a professional, fully operational level. A lot of times we come in during the stage too and customers don't even understand what's going on in their network. They're seeing things that maybe they've never seen before once StealthWatch turns on. A great example actually is we were at a large financial firm and we were able, within 30 minutes of being on site with them through our services team, we were able to identify rogue DNS servers, unsecured telnet going on, SQL injections, suspicious SMB and SSH traffic. This is all just within 30 minutes of us coming on there and taking a look at this. All the stuff you don't even want to look at sometimes, right? So who's doing this, Ken? I mean, is this sort of automated? You got professionals sort of overseeing it? From our side, yeah. So the team that we have, the technology transformation team, when we've talked about it before, that team is kind of on the bleeding edge of helping customers. And a lot of these services that Kyle talked about is we are building services that customers are consuming based on their needs today. And that's why the team is very flexible. We build a lot of these integrations with those requirements in mind. And then we take those and we can scale that. So these are all field engineers. We have developers. So in essence, it is like a mini development team that goes out and works on the specific things that customers need to protect themselves. Okay, and my understanding is there's an ongoing learning with the customers. It's sort of a transfer of knowledge from day one, right? The customer is with you in each of these phases and they're sort of learning as they go along. That's sort of part of the transfer of knowledge. And I would say even a two-way transfer of knowledge too because we're teaching them our best practices and how to best be successful with these systems. But we also learn from them what's going on, what are the trends that they're seeing? How can we help get them to the next stage? And that's where our technology and transformation group comes in. They're able to be on the cutting edge, hear the problems that the customers are talking about and be able to take StealthWatch to the next level. Okay, let's dig into the detection phase. This is where you're classifying things like host groups, et cetera. I'm interested in how that happens is that, you know, it used to be you'd get everybody in a room and you'd start drawing pictures and that just doesn't scale. It's too complicated today. So can you auto-classify stuff? How does that all work? Are you using like genius math to do that? So traditionally, it's a manual effort to classify your host group. Somebody who's very familiar with the network comes in and they say, okay, these are the DNS servers. These are the web servers. These are the network scanners. Joe, oh, Joe's out just today, this week, can't do that. But the problem is that today's networks are so dynamic and fluid that what the network looks like today is not necessarily going to be the same tomorrow. So there needs to be that relief from an analyst to be able to come in. There needs to be that automation that they can go in each day and know that their system is going to be classified accurately and meaningfully. That way, the behavioral detection that is built into StealthWatch is also driven and accurate and meaningful too. So we have this service, for example, our host group automation service. And through that, we're able to pull in telemetry and data from various different sources, such as IP address management systems, CMDBs. We can do threat feeds as well, external threat feeds. And we're able to drive the classification based off of the metadata that we see from these different sources. So we're able to write different types of automation rules that essentially pull this data in, detect the different patterns that we're seeing with that metadata and then drive that classification in StealthWatch. That way, when you come in that next day, you know that your network scanners are going to be classified as network scanners and your web servers are going to be web servers, et cetera, et cetera. So you got that integrity of data coming in every single day. Yeah, so a lot of different data sources, data quality, obviously really important. I mean, you'd love it if somebody had, like, you know, a single CMDB from ServiceNow, boom, pop it right in, but that's not always the case, right? It's never always the case. There's always a challenge and that's where kind of our services engineers come in, they're able to work through these different environments and understand what the metadata is, where we need to go and how we need to classify and drive that classification from there. So it does require a little bit of a human element on the front end, but once we get it worked out, it can be fully automated. You know, there's lots of different sources and the quality of the data is not always there. We've seen, for example, customers who have Excel spreadsheets and everything is just all over the place and we have to figure out a way to work with that and that's part of what our engineer success is. So before we get to the integration piece, Ken, you've been following this industry for a while. Security is really exciting space. It's growing like crazy. It's really hard. I did a breaking analysis piece a few weeks ago just talking about the fragmentation in the business. You see startups coming out like crazy, big valuations. At the same time, you see companies like Cisco with big portfolios. You mentioned Splunk before, they've kind of become a gold standard for log files, but very complex and you talk to security practitioners and they'll tell you our number one problem is just skill sets. So paint a picture of what's going on in the security world and how Cisco is trying to address that. So the security teams, the analysts all the way up the management chain to the CISO, they're under tremendous pressure. Their businesses are growing and so when their businesses are growing, the sort of attack space is growing and the business is growing faster than they can protect it. So with the sort of increase in the economy, more money, more investment to build more point products. So you've got a very stressed team, a lot of turnover, skill sets aren't great and what do we do as an industry? We just give them more technology, right? More tools. More tools, complexity avalanche, okay? They're buried, all right? So we feel and we've made great strides within the security group within Cisco is we're taking the products that we have and we're integrating them under one platform so that it isn't a bunch of point products. And so that the, and that's what everybody else is doing. I mean, the other guys are acquiring companies and they're trying to integrate those because the customers are saying, I don't need another point product. Uncle. Yeah, yeah, it's too much. So, you know, with us, that's the way we approach it. And now with the platform that's going to be launching this year, the Cisco threat response that we've launched, you're going to see later on in this year that we will be selling and positioning and implementing the entire platform. Yeah, so I gave a stat, I came up with this in one of my analyses. The worldwide economy is like 86 trillion. And we spend about 0.014% on security. So we're barely scratching the surface. So this sort of tools avalanche probably isn't going to change. So integration becomes an extremely important aspect of the customer journey. So take us through that. And to continue on that point you just made as well too. I believe in our Cisco cybersecurity report from 2017, only 57% of actual threats are being investigated and remediated. So there's always that need to kind of help build, bridge that gap, make it easier for people to understand these threats and mitigate this. Prioritize, know what to go after, right? Which the integration is going to help you do. So we do have a lot of different integration services as well too. For example, I mentioned our SIM integration service. One thing that we can really do, that's really awesome with that is we're able to deploy for example with Splunk, a full fledged StealthWatch for Splunk application that allows you to utilize StealthWatch's capabilities directly inside of Splunk without having to actually store and index any data inside of Splunk. So all these APIs are on demand inside of this app and available throughout the rest of the Splunk capabilities as well. So you can extend it into other search reporting, correlate that against other sets of data that you have in Splunk. You can do quite a bit with it. We also have other ways that- So if I interrupt, so the advantage of that is just obviously integration, you're not leaving the environment. Plus it's cost, right? I mean, you're saving customers money. A lot of customers kind of see their SIM as a single pane of glass. So being able to bring that StealthWatch value into that single pane is a huge win for our customers. Not to mention that reduction in licensing costs as well. We have other ways too that we can reduce licensing costs. Some customers like to send their flow data into their SIM for deeper analytics and long-term retention. And we have a service we called our FlowAdapter service. And through this service, we're essentially able to take by flow off of the StealthWatch flow collectors. And the by flow is essentially when the raw net flow hits the StealthWatch flow collectors, it's coming from multiple different routers and switches on the network. This gets converted into by flow, which is bi-directional, deduplicated, stitched together flow records. So right there, by sending that data into a SIM or a data lake, as opposed to raw net flow, we see data reduction costs anywhere from 15 to 80% depending on how the customer's network is architected. Great. Any favorite customer examples you have that you can share where you guys have gone in, provided these services and it's had an outcome that got the customer excited or you found some bad guys or share. There's one that's one of my favorites. So we have this service we called our asset discovery and classification service. And I mentioned the host group automation service. That's if you have some sort of authoritative source, we can pull that information in. But if a customer doesn't have that authoritative source, they don't know what's on their network. And a lot of times too, they want to do a segmentation effort. They're undergoing network segmentation, but they need to understand what's on their network, how these devices are communicating. And that's where our asset discovery and classification service comes in. We're able to pull in telemetry, not just from StealthWatch, but other sources such as ICE, Tetration, Active Directory, IPAMs again as well. And we're able to essentially profile these different devices based off of the nature of their behavior. So we were at a kind of a large technology company and we were essentially in this effort trying to segment their security cameras. And upon segmenting their security cameras, we were able to build this report where we can see the security camera and how it's communicating with the other parts of the network. And we noticed that there was essentially two IP addresses from inside of their network that were accessing all these different security cameras, but they were not authorized to. So with this service, we were able to see that these two hosts were unauthorized accessing these devices. They got reported up through the management chain. And ultimately those two employees were no longer at that technology permanence that was discovered. Nice, I love it. All right, Ken, bring us on. We're here in the DevNet zone, sort of all about infrastructure as code and software. And talk a little bit about the futures, where you see this all going. Yeah, so for us, for Cisco security, the future is really bright. We've either built or acquired a portfolio that the customers really need that get absolute outcomes that customers need. And through the customer experience organization, certainly StealthWatch is fitting into the broader play to get customers who have all those technologies get that operational and get them success. So when we talked last summer, I told you that the jury was still out, we would see how the journey's going to go. And the journey has started, it has gotten much better since the summer. And this year, I think we're going to be doing some great things for our customers. Just, we can't get into too much of the business, but StealthWatch customers are still expanding because I think we told you last time, customers can never get enough StealthWatch, okay? The attack surface is too big, right? So we feel really good about that. And the other technologies that they're building really fit into what customers need. We're going to the cloud. So they're going to be able to consume cloud, on-prem, hybrid, protect networks, or the campus, protect their cloud infrastructure. So we're really checking a lot of boxes and our group brings it all together and takes all the complexity out of that for customers, just to get them the outcomes that they need. I named Cisco as one of my four-star security companies for 2020, based on spending data that we share from our friends at ETR. And the reason was because Cisco has both a large presence in the market, but also you have spending momentum. I mentioned 22% growth last quarter in the security business, but you've also got the expertise.  The big portfolio, which helps, if you can bring it together and do these types of integrations, it simplifies the customer's environment. And so that's a winner in my book. So I named you along with some other high flyers. And you see some really interesting startups coming out and probably acquisition targets, probably some that aren't on your radar. But guys, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great to have you. Great to have you. Kyle, thank you. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. It's Dave Vellante for theCUBE. Miniman and John Furrier are also in the house at Cisco Live, Barcelona. Right back.


Alrighty, you guys have been asking for my analysis of Mako going to SeaWorld San Diego and I'm finally here to give it to you. So a huge thank you to Jake Anderson from No Limits Central. He created this concept art for what he thinks the layout could potentially be. So just keep in mind, this layout might not be accurate. So I just wanted to let you guys know that. He wanted me to let you guys know that. He basically just looked at the concept art and this is as close as he could come up with at the moment for what Mako could look like. And I must say, it's absolutely stunning. This thing looks insane. And now that I can see it more visually and more like in person per se, it definitely stands out a lot more. The concept art definitely revealed some things. Like you can tell there's the drop, the Imelman. But I'm definitely liking that this D6 is coming to North America. And D6 are definitely something not to be messed with. It's something that could potentially give dive coasters like Yukon Stryker and Val Raven are run for their money. Now that being said, with this current layout, if this were to be the layout, I don't think it would be a top tier dive coaster in North America. I don't think it would be number one. I don't think it would be number two, but I think it would be a strong number three. Now that's coming from someone that has not been on a D6. So please take that into consideration.  So for example, when I'm saying this probably won't be number one, that's just my personal opinion. So with that being said, I'm definitely liking the color. It's definitely giving me Leviathan-esque feels, which is nice. And I like that they're taking a portion of the parking lot and turning it into a coaster. I know this park is super landlocked and a dive coaster was probably the best coaster they could pick for a landlocked park. It's gonna do the park wonders. This is gonna be absolutely amazing. And I really hope it stands true or stays true that there won't be a mid-course break run. This thing's gonna haul and fly through its layout. It's gonna be absolutely awesome. It is very short. I do wanna stress with the ride facts. You already know the ride facts that it is not tall. The drop doesn't have a tunnel. There's no gimmicks to the ride that we can see yet. Again, concept art doesn't always reveal what there is for a coaster. There could be added features afterwards. I'll use Leviathan again as a prime example. The tunnel was a last minute add-on and it also wasn't included in concept art. So again, concept art doesn't always reveal everything. And there are a few things on the concept art that make this layout even look a little different than what the concept art is showing. But the concept art also doesn't really make sense with all the lines you're seeing in it as well. So in my personal opinion, I definitely do think this is the closest you'll get to visualizing what the layout's going to be. I think it's absolutely stunning again. So number one, I love the colors. I think it's gonna really pop in this area and at SeaWorld. I think this ride model is a perfect pick for SeaWorld San Diego. You're talking to probably the biggest dive coaster fan out there. I love Valraven. I know Valraven gets a ton of hate. And I just love dive coasters. And I think GP love dive coasters. And maybe that's why I love dive coasters so much because I'm not exactly the hardest core enthusiast out there. And I honestly think it's a great investment. And I honestly, again, think that we're gonna see a lot of dive coasters coming to SeaWorld parks and Cedar Fair parks, Six Flags parks. You're gonna see a lot of these things popping up. This isn't the end of dive coasters. In fact, I think this is a new era. You're gonna see dive coasters going to a lot of parks because Cedar Fair is having a lot of success with them. Other parks are seeing that and they're gonna wanna dip their feet in the water with this as well. In fact, you saw it on the Six Flags survey. People want these things. So there isn't really anything bad for me to say about this coaster. Now I wanna touch on something that I'm seeing online. There's a lot of hate going around for the reuse of Mako. Reusing names in my opinion isn't bad. These parks are so far away from each other. And only the enthusiast community is really gonna care. The general public really doesn't care. And those are the people paying for these attractions in the end. They make up most of the population in terms of attendance. So they're the ones that matter. So reusing a name is smart for businesses and parks to save money on purchasing the name or leasing a name is just smarter for a business to use the same name. Anyways, the name to me is not a big deal. I think a lot of people will just get used to it and it's not that big of a deal. Anyways, hope you guys really enjoyed this review or analysis of my opinions on Mako. I think it's a fantastic addition to SeaWorld. Hopefully you guys too. Comment down below what you think. Give the video a like. Subscribe if you haven't and share this video for others to enjoy. Thanks for watching guys. Have a good one. Bye.


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I think you're sorry you came to see me. Why do you say that? I'm intuitive. Where men are concerned. You're also very attractive. Oh, come now, Mr. Dunning. That was much too perfunctory for me to take it seriously. Mr. Dunning, are we going all the way back to the beginning? Why so formal? Because I suspect there's something going on in the back of your mind. Intuition again? You have a nice smile. You ought to do it more often. When we met in the park, you seemed so self-assured and worldly. But actually, I believe you're quite shy. Well... Oh, I didn't say that to embarrass you. I meant it as a compliment.  Here, let's have some more champagne. Will you pour, John? Glad to, Cordelia. You know something. What? I think you're a little afraid of me. Why should I be? I have a notion to kiss you. Forget me for teasing you. Don't be frightened.  I know you must be thinking I'm an awful clod sitting here like this, but... 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Like this.  The passionate alliance between Mrs. Botkin and Dunning grew in intensity. Soon their affair was no longer a private one. They were seen together all over the city at restaurants, bars, the races at Ingleside Track, any place that held the promise of pleasure. Much of the money for these extravagances came from Cordelia's husband, Welcome Botkin. Now that's not a made-up name, for he was indeed legally Mr. Welcome A Botkin. Strangely enough, Welcome sent money a couple of times a month to his errant wife. He couldn't in good conscience condemn her conduct, for he led an adulterous life himself in Stockton, California, where he chose to live most of the time. But what of Dunning's mate? A sad and different story. Mrs. Dunning was the daughter of a prominent family. Her father and ex-Congressman from the state of Delaware invited over the family home at Dover. Mrs.  She must do something about her wayward husband, she knew that, but she hadn't yet decided what exactly to do. 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Available at most larger Sears retail stores in the catalog. The bids are in for men's lightweight suits and the offers from Sears show prices are down. Way down. What a time to buy during Sears spring suit clearance. The prices are low, the value is high, and you can wear these handsome lightweight suits right now. Choose from vested suits, four-piece suits, and more. Not all styles in all sizes, so hurry in while quantities last. Sears spring suits for men. Now a very good investment. At most larger Sears retail stores. While Mr. Dunning continued his passionate relationship with Cordelia Butkin, Mrs. Dunning fretted and worried and spent long evenings waiting for her wayward husband to come home. Just now, she sits in semi-darkness in the sitting room of the Dunning apartment. Presently, a key is quietly turned in the locker, thickening our plot. You don't need to tiptoe, John, I'm not asleep. Oh, I didn't see you. Why aren't you in bed? It's late. Yes, I know. Uh, after I left the office, I dropped over to the press club for a nightcap. I got to talking to a couple of reporters and before I knew it, it was late. I hope you weren't worried. Do you expect a wife not to worry when she knows her husband is deceiving her? You mean you don't believe I've been at the press club? Please! Things have gone too far for us to delude ourselves any longer. I know where you've been. Where? With that... that woman. I won't call her by the name that comes to my lips. You might take offense since you're so devoted to her.  I hear of your escapades from all sides of late. I don't seek it. It pours in from friend and enemy alike. Unsolicited. They're lying. No! They are not lying. I've tried to fool myself with the hope that that was the case, but today I found out for myself. Found out what? I saw the two of you. I stood in a doorway across the street from her apartment. But how? Wait! Before you involve yourself in lies. She lives at 645 Gary Street. I saw you go in there shortly after two o'clock this afternoon. I stayed at my post for two whole hours, wondering when you would come out, if at all. Finally at four o'clock the two of you emerged. She clung possessively to your arm.  The very picture of two happy lovers. What you're saying is that you lowered yourself to spy on me. Yes, I spied on you. I had to find out the truth for myself.  How long do you think I would lie to her now that I know the truth? No, I'm taking her away before she learns that... that her father is an adulterer. Take her away? Where? To Dover. Back home to father. I didn't expect you to... I'm drunk, which should be obvious. Oh, come with me. Come on. Let go. What are you trying to do? I want to take you to the bedroom so you can lie down. I don't want to lie down. All right, sit here on the sofa. Put your feet up and I'll take off your shoes. Don't leave me alone, will you? Why are you being so hateful? Turn to the letter from your wife.  Why are you bringing my wife into this? She's 3,000 miles away. Just leave my wife out of this. I got fired today.  Were you really fired? I blew it right out. No notice, nothing. I quote, the Associated Press no longer requires your services as of this date. End of quote. Oh, darling. Oh, I got what is coming to me. I deserve to be fired. No such thing. You're talking nonsense. It's not nonsense. I deserved it and everybody knows it, including you. I haven't been on the job. You know that.  Stop it. I won't have you calling me that. What did I say that was so awful? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, honey. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. No, no, no. Please, please, please. Don't go away. Stay here close to me. You know how much you mean to me. How much I need you.  I don't blame you. I don't deserve you. I don't deserve anybody. Send me away. I've taken money from you. I've lived off of you. Bliss no good. Stay there. Just be quiet.  That's it. You have nothing to worry about. I'll take care of you, my darling. My now. Radio Theatre will return after this message from your local station. Here's a tip from your better business bureau. Is your car equipped to handle emergencies? Well, here's a list of essential items which will enable you to better handle an emergency situation. A car jack and lug wrench should always be carried in case of a flat tire. Be sure you know how the jack operates and the correct procedure for changing a tire. Flares and reflectors provide warning to other motorists that your car is stopped and both are essential safety items. A tow strap or chain enables a car to be pulled out of the mud with snow. Battery jumper cables help a motorist solve a dead battery problem quickly. A small fire extinguisher can prevent a small problem from turning into a large one. But you'd better keep it in the passenger compartment where you can get to it quickly. A first aid kit can come in handy in all sorts of minor medical emergencies. You're better business bureau. It's two miles now. I wish I'd started this about 20 years ago. Take it easy, Pugsley. Hi, Mr. Kessler. Hello, kids. Say hello, Pugsley. Okay, about four more blocks and we're home. Time to sprint. Let's go, Pugsley. 40 years ago, Tom Kessler had a heart attack. He never misses his nightly run these days. But before his heart attack, the most exercise Tom got was pushing a pool cue. Regular exercise alone won't guarantee that you'll never have a heart attack, but it will increase your blood flow, relax you, make you feel better. Don't wait until you've had a heart attack to start exercising. See your doctor this week, and the two of you can come up with an exercise program that's right for you. For more information, contact your American Heart Association. We're fighting for your life. I'm out on the porch, daughter. Would you please come out here? All right, I'm coming. This telegram just came for you. Thank you. It's from John. I hope it's not more bad news, my dear. No, not really. Actually, I guess it's... it's good news. He says, my darling... Don't bother to read it aloud if it's upsetting to him. No, no, it's all right. I want you to hear it. My darling, the Associated Press has hired me back. Going to Cuba to cover Spanish-American war. Leaving San Francisco 22nd this month. Will you meet me in New York so we can have a few days together before I sail? Have completely severed all... Sorry. Have completely severed all relations here.  I love you and only you. Please wire care of AP. Remember only this. I love you, John. Father, what should I do? Oh, here, sit down, my dear. He's hurt me so. Indeed he has. He asked me to forgive him. Can I do that after all he's done? Do you still love him? That's what you must ask yourself. He's going away to a war. I guess he should have a chance to see his child. After all, she is his and she does love him. And you, my dear, do you still love him? Oh, Father, how many thousand times have I asked myself that? I lie in bed at night and I think of the happy days we had together. I hear his calm, warm voice telling me how much he loves me. He's my husband again. But then the husband disappears and I see only a tortured, disillute face. If I agree to meet him, will it be the husband that I loved or this other person? Yes, yes, yes. But to refuse, even to talk to him, to see him, that seems so small, so spiteful. You want to see him, don't you? I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but yes, Father, I do want to see him. I guess I still love him. No matter what he's done, I'm afraid I still love him. Then go to him, my dear. He's your husband. This is my coach here, Cordelia. It's ridiculous when you come to think of it. What is? That we have to come all the way over to Oakland to get a train that goes east. But it was so beautiful on the bay coming across on the ferry boat. Didn't you think so, John? Dear? Yes. Is your wife meeting you at the station in New York? Or will she be at a hotel? No, she'll be at the station. She and our little daughter. How long will you be together? I don't really know. I'm due to sail from New York on the 6th. This is the end for me, isn't it? You're never coming back to San Francisco, are you? Over the war going on, who knows what's going to happen. But when it's over, the war, you'll be going back to your wife. That's what you're planning to do, isn't it? Cordelia, please, let's not make these last few minutes together unpleasant. I've given up everything for you. My husband, everything. Oh, come now. You and your husband had separated long before we ever met. Your taking is also a matter of fact. You don't know what it is to love. Cordelia, I'll never forget what you've meant to me. And all that you've done for me, believe me. Is there any hope that you'll come back to San Francisco? Look, I told you that with a war... Don't misunderstand. I wasn't asking you to promise to come back. I just... My dear Cordelia, the train's about to leave. Just one more thing. What I wanted to say was... Well, is there any hope of your coming back? Coming over on the ferry boat, you said the bay was so beautiful. And how much we always loved being on the bay. I remember you're saying one time that San Francisco's bay was the absolute gem.  That was the night we had lots of champagne and we were acting silly. And we made all sorts of plans to coat in Naples and Venice. And you said, Why go to Naples when we had the very gem of them all right here?  Oh, I'm sorry. I'm being silly. But you will miss San Francisco and the bay. And me, darling. Will you miss me? I've got to go. Goodbye. Goodbye, my darling. Please, did John's letter have good news for you? Oh, yes, father. He thinks the war will soon be over. Actually, this letter is from Puerto Rico and he's complaining that everything's so quiet he doesn't have anything to write about. I'm going to write him today and tell him that I'm praying he'll be kept in a quiet theater till it's all over. No matter how disappointing it might be to a war correspondent. Quite right, my dear. Quite right. He thinks AP will want him in their New York office when the war is over. I hope so. I never want to go back to San Francisco again. And neither does he. Well, I should hope not. Incidentally, you haven't opened the package that I brought from the post office along with your letter. It's blurred somewhat, but it looks like a San Francisco postmark. Here, I have my pocket knife. I'll open it for you. Oh, how sweet! A darling little handkerchief folded over these lovely chocolate bonbons. Look. Who's it from? It doesn't seem to be... Oh, wait. Here's a little note. It says, with love to yourself and baby, Mrs. C. Mrs. C? Someone you knew in San Francisco? I'm trying to remember. For the moment, I can't think who it could be. Here, we have a bonbon? No, thanks. Sweets don't interest me anymore. These are so good. Sister loves bonbons as much as I do. Excuse me, Father. Where are you going? In the house and share these with Sis. Within two days, Mrs. Dunning was dead. And the following day, her sister, Mrs. Joshua Dean, died of eating poison chocolates. Weeks after the deaths of Mrs. John Dunning and her sister in the state of Delaware, on the night of August 23rd, 1898, Cordelia Botkin was arrested in a hotel suite in Stockton, California, where her husband was living. Don't bother, Mrs. Ruth. I'll answer it. Cordelia Botkin? Yes? What is the meaning of this rude intrusion? My name is Gal, Mrs. Botkin. I'm the police chief here in Stockton. This is Officer Gibson of the San Francisco police. Close the door, Gibson. I hold here in my hand warrants for your arrest. You'll have to come with us. And what if I refuse to come along? You can't refuse. Mam, these warrants empower us to take you into custody. I don't believe you, since I'm guilty of nothing. You're entitled to have the charge read if that's what you want. I most certainly do. Read. The people of the state of California to any sheriff, constable, marshal, or policeman of said state or of the city and county of San Francisco. Information on oath having been this day laid before me that the crime of murder has been committed in that Mrs. John P. Dunning, a human being of the city of Dover County of Kent State of Delaware, was willfully, unlawfully, feloniously and with malice of forethought killed and murdered and accusing Cordelia Brown Botkin, thereof. That's enough.  I've never been in the state of Delaware. In my whole life, I've never been in Delaware. Nevertheless, you'll have to come with us. Don't make us use force. Do you expect me to go out in this attire? How long will it take you to get ready? Well, that will depend on Mrs. Ruth, my tire woman. I made. I'll be ready for you when I've made my toilet. I am Judge Carol Cook. The trial of Cordelia Botkin began in the superior court of San Francisco, December 6, 1898. The prosecution put on an impressive array of witnesses. The doctor who attended Mrs. Dunning and her sister in their final agony of pain before they died of arsenic poisoning. Mr. Pennington, the father of the dead women. A chemist. On and on they came 15 witnesses and all from the state of Delaware. They followed a parade of witnesses from San Francisco. One such was a Frank Gray. Now, Mr. Gray, let's get back to that book you hold in your hands. You testified to do not that it's known as the poison book that all drugs were employed as a clerk. Is that correct? Yes, sir. All drugs on Market Street here in the city. Very good. Now, tell us what purpose such a book serves. Well, you see, whenever we sell poison, we always enter the amount, the date, the name of the purchaser, and well, the reason for buying the poison. All that information we have to put in writing in the poison book. Yes. Now, Mr. Gray, will you please open the said book to the entry under the date of June 1st, 1898? Yes, sir. Have you found the entry? Yes, sir. The handwritten entry of June 1st, 1898, correct? Yes, sir. Do you recognize the handwriting? That is, can you identify it? Yes, sir. It's my handwriting. Now, would you please read what you wrote? Well, first I wrote down the date. Exactly, Mr. Gray. Just read us what you wrote. June 1st, 1898, 2 p.m., Mrs. Botkin, California and Hyde, arsenic, 2 ounces, bleaching, gray. Explain each entry, if you please, starting with Mrs. Botkin. Why did you write down that name? She was the purchaser. Well, yes, we'll get to that. The point is that you always enter the purchaser's name. Whenever poison is bought, yes, sir. The next entry, please. California and Hyde. That's the address she gave. The next entry? Arsenic, 2 ounces. That's what the woman bought. 2 ounces of lump arsenic. The woman who gave you the name of Mrs. Botkin? Yes, sir. And what follows the arsenic entry? The word bleaching. That's what the lady said she wanted the arsenic for, bleaching. Bleaching a straw hat, she said. That we have to put down a reason for the purchase of poison, and that's the reason she gave. Did you recommend that she buy arsenic for that purpose? No, sir. I told her we had a much better bleach when it wasn't dangerous. You told the purchaser that? Yes, sir. But she insisted on the arsenic, so I sold it to her. I see. And the final entry? My name, Gray. Very good. Now let's go back to the name Mrs. Botkin. Would you recognize the person who gave you that name if you saw her? Yes, sir. Is she present in this courtroom? Yes, sir. It's that woman sitting at the table right there, the defendant. Thank you, Mr. Gray. The fence may cross-examine. Now, Mr. Gray, is it unusual for you to sell poison? Well, no, I wouldn't say it was unusual. As a matter of fact, you sell poison for one purpose or another quite often, do you not? Well, that's hard to say. It depends on what you mean by quite often. There's nothing unlawful about the sale or purchase of arsenic. That's correct, is it not? Well, no, it's not unlawful, but... Just answer my question, yes or no. Is it unlawful? No, sir. So, if a person comes into your drugstore and purchases arsenic, there's no reason for you to think of it as being an unusual or remarkable occurrence. Hey, Mr. Gray? No, I guess not. These are simple questions. Don't give us complicated answers to them. Now, in the last six months, you've made a good many sales of arsenic, have you not? Well, I don't know that I've made a good many. Would you say you've made several? Several, I guess. Yes, sir. Of those sales, you have a distinct recollection of the transaction involving a Mrs. Botkin, whom you have identified as the defendant here. Yes, sir. That was on June 1st, some six months ago, right? Yes, sir. You have a good memory. Now, can you give us the name of some other purchaser of poison five or six months ago? Three months ago? Or no, sir, not right off hand. Your Honor, I object to this line of questioning. The witness used the poison book to refresh his memory regarding the sale to Mrs. Botkin. He's made no claim to having a remarkable memory. To pursue this within the scope of legitimate cross-examination, I submit that the witness be allowed to refer to the poison book, assuming that counsel's question was even relevant in the first place, and I base a further objection on the ground that it was not. I'll put another question to the witness, Your Honor. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Gray, that you had no recollection of this June 1st transaction until it was called to your attention by the police, and that you had no idea of what the purchaser looked like until you were brought to the San Francisco jail before the trial to have a look at the defendant? I object, Your Honor, on the grounds that... Just a moment. Now, do you deny that this witness was brought to the jail and that Mrs. Botkin was pointed out to Your Honor? Gentlemen, gentlemen, your question, Mr. Barton, is a proper one if you will address it to the witness. Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Gray, before this trial started, were you taken to the jail where Mrs. Botkin was pointed out to you? Yes, sir. No further questions. Bedspread with all the muscle to resist the wear and tear it gets from hindsight of kids. It's tough cord, a sturdy blend of 75% polyester and 25% rayon. Choose from bunk twin and full sizes in ten bright solid colors or five coordinating plaids. All machine washable and permapressed for no fuss easy care. When you want value in a strong and sturdy bedspread, look for tough cord because kids not only sleep in their bedrooms, they play there, too. At most Sears retail stores. Prices may vary in Alaska and Hawaii. Oh, here I go again. It's time to rent one of those steam type carpet cleaners. Why rent? Now Sears puts power in a carpet cleaner you can own yourself. The power spray from Sears for easy home carpet cleaning.  You can see the dirt you get out. Dirt you didn't even know was there. The power spray carpet cleaner, a convenient carpet cleaner you can own yourself. Available at most Sears retail stores. Kenmore. Solid as Sears. Vincent Price again, and here's the concluding act of a leading case. The trial goes on through the cold December days. The spectators lean forward expectantly as John Dunning takes the witness stand to give testimony against his former mistress Cordelia Botkin.  The district attorney continued with his examination. Now then, let's go back, Mr. Dunning, to the time you last saw the defendant here. That is the last time you saw her before this trial began. When was that? The day I left for the east on my way to Cuba, she went with me to the train station. You were leaving San Francisco to take up your duties as a war correspondent for the Associated Press, is that correct? Yes, sir. Where was your wife at this time? At her parents' home in Dover, Delaware. Up to the time of this parting, how long had you known the defendant? I can't say exactly, but quite a long time. Well, would you say some months or...? Yes, yes, a good many months, a couple of years or so. Describe your relationship. Was it purely friendly, casual, or otherwise? It was mostly otherwise. Tell us what you mean by otherwise? Sexual. And this meretricious relationship with the defendant went on for a long period of time? Yes, sir. And came to an end when you left for the east in Cuba? That's correct. Did it come to an end by mutual consent? No, sir. I ended it. Did Mrs. Barton ever...? No, no, strike that. You say you ended it. Did Mrs. Barton try to dissuade you from ending it? Yes, sir. You wanted to put an end to the relationship. For what reason? I'd made up my mind to go back to my wife, if she would have me. Did you tell the defendant here that you were going back to your wife? I told her that I was going to meet with my wife when I arrived in the east. How does she take this news? She was extremely upset. Did she try to dissuade you? Yes. In what way? I would say in just about every way possible. Thank you, Mr. Dunning. You may cross-examine. I have no questions to put to this witness, Your Honor. Very well. You may step down, Mr. Dunning. For the present, Your Honor, the prosecution has no further witnesses. Then you may proceed for the defense, Mr. Knight. Your Honor, I move for a dismissal of this case. On what grounds? On the grounds that a court in the state of California has no jurisdiction to try a case such as this. And further that the want of jurisdiction has not been remedied by any of the evidence induced by the prosecution. Your Honor, I submit this is simply a ruse on the part of the defense to prejudice the jury. And I think the court should make it clear that the purpose of this trial is to hear evidence and not whimsy. It's the common law on which our own jurisprudence is founded whimsy. Was the Supreme Court of North Carolina being whimsical when it held in the case of State v. Hall 114 NC 909 that a murder is committed where the shot took effect to wit in Tennessee, where the victim was killed and not across the border in North Carolina, where the killer stood when he fired the fatal shot? Have we not an analogous situation here? This defendant, Mrs. Botkin here, is being tried for murder in the state of California. But her alleged victims dived some 3,000 miles away in the state of Delaware, a state in which the defendant has never set foot. If the court please, is not the law properly stated in State v. Hall where it says the murder is committed where the shot took effect? Yes, but I should remind counsel that there is an element he has neglected to mention in his argument. And that is the unquestioned power of a state legislature to alter or amend our laws. There is a section in the California Penal Code that is applicable to the situation that exists in this case. I have the Penal Code before me and I have just turned to section 27. It reads as follows, quote, The following persons are liable to punishment under the laws of the state. One, all persons who commit in whole or in part any crime within this state. End of quotation. Now, the preparing of poison candy in California and ascending it to Delaware with a murderous intent constituted an attempt to commit murder which in itself is a crime even if no death resulted. So, part of the crime was committed in California thereby giving the California court the right to try, which is to say the jurisdiction to try such a defendant for the whole crime. Such being the case, the motion to dismiss this case for want of jurisdiction is hereby denied. Cordelia Botkin was found guilty of murder in the first degree. I sentenced her to life imprisonment. When she died in San Quentin Prison in 19 and 10, the newspapers took little note of her death, which was attributed to quote, softening of the brain, unquote. Cordelia Botkin, a forgotten name except in the annals of jurisprudence where it will always endure. How long do your pantyhose last? Do you want the answer in minutes or hours? You should try seers and dourables. The pantyhose that lasted an average of 18 days of normal wear and a test with 400 women. The women in our test wore and dourables day after day after day and is a group average of 18 days. A patented process makes them strong so they last and sheer so they look great. No pantyhose lasts forever. How long do your pantyhose last? Dourables at larger seers retail stores. 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The seers radio theater has been brought to you by seers robot and company. Where our policy is satisfaction guarantee or your money back. Seers where America shops for value. A leading case was written by Michael Refetto produced and directed by Elliott Lewis. Your host was Vincent Price. Our stars were Lureen Tuttle and Byron Kane. Featured in the cast were Ann Given, Stan Waxman, Stephen Roberts, True Boardman, Herb Rudley and Marvin Miller. The music for seers radio theater was composed and conducted by Nelson Riddle. This is Art Gilmore speaking. The Elliott Lewis production of seers radio theater is a presentation of CVI. How long ago did you read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's great Sherlock Holmes story, The Hound of the Baskervilles or Robert Louis Stevenson's masterpiece of the macabre, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde perhaps recently perhaps many years ago. Well these two greats of literature are among the dozens of classic stories you'll hear in the weeks to come on CBS radio mystery theater over most of these stations. I'm E. G. Marshall your host for this award winning radio series. Every Saturday and Sunday we devote our drama to a tale of suspense by a world famous author. You'll be hearing stories by Edgar Allen Poe, Emily and Charlotte Bronte and special radio adaptations of plays by William Shakespeare. Every weekday of course we'll continue to present original tales of the supernatural and macabre. This is a presentation here for CBS radio mystery theater on most of these CBS radio network stations. New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Miami, Seattle. Our biggest cities are sending out cries for more Vista volunteers. Vista means volunteers in service to America. Vista volunteers work with groups of inner city residents to tackle the many urban problems that can't be solved alone. By working together with local leaders, entire neighborhoods can be restored, job training centers can be created, educational programs, health and legal services can be expanded to reach all who need them. Vista means working through the democratic process to better our cities. Community people are learning that they can have a voice in making the decisions that affect their lives. Vista volunteers come from all backgrounds. Many come from the neighborhoods they work in. They all share one conviction that self-reliant self-confident caring individuals can make a difference in a community. America needs more Vista volunteers. Put yourself where you're needed. Call<PHONE_NUMBER> or write Vista Washington D.C. 20525, a public service of this station and action.  Let's listen. Do you really think they'll march? There must be a dozen posters in the law school quad along saying they will. Did you see that notice saying that a committee is meeting to stop them? Yeah. Do you think I should join? What if you want to? Are you? No. So be sure and tune in tomorrow to the Sears Radio Theater.


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