So with that slide adjustment to the agenda, I was asked late yesterday afternoon to at least coordinate this meeting. So I will kick it off and simply say, as we always have, everyone is welcome to participate. There is an expectation of respect, mutual respect in the discussions that we have. And this is an open forum. So any anti-competitive behavior is deeply frowned upon and will be addressed immediately on that. So the agenda, we have quite a few topics. And as I said, I think the aura of reviewers and the discussion on that is likely to be soon. All right, minutes page is created. Sorry. Thanks, Dave. So let's go ahead and get started on it. Solano, you got coverage on the announcements. Yeah, so actually, Dave was handling that with Min. So I'll go ahead and let him do the fill in for that piece. Yeah, so the only thing we've got in the announcements for this morning is the internship program. Min and I met earlier this week. And Min has been doing a wonderful job of this. But we had to get together and dot all the i's across all the t's. So I'm trying to find my notes real quick, getting back to where I was at. OK, yeah, so we have a total of 27 proposals. We have now closed the period officially. The next step is we need somewhere between 10 and 20 volunteers who want to help be part of the selection committee. It is open to anybody in the hyperlinked community, not just TSC members, not just staff, but anybody who's interested in reading through the proposals and making their selections. We need to select 15 out of the 27. So if you want to volunteer, go ahead and email me. I have my email there in the agenda. Also send an announcement out to the TSC list later today. We finalized the timeline for this process. We're going to give one week for the selection process. So it'll be done. It'll close next Thursday so that we can announce it on the following Monday and open up for intern applications. Volunteering for the selection committee is only for selecting the proposals. And the mentors then will participate in interviewing the intern applicants. So it's a real light lift for the volunteers. We have timed the internship program so that it will close on May 9th and announce all the interns. We did this because it's really close to the end of Google Summer of Code. I think it's within a day or two so that students applying to both or a bunch of different internship programs will all be announcing roughly the same time. That's pretty much it. We have a really strong slate of programs or proposals. We have selection criteria already in the... I have the system set up for doing the selection process and we have selection criteria in there and everything. So if you want to volunteer, go ahead and email me. I'll add just the list and we'll get going. That's pretty much it. All right. Any questions for Dave? Well, no? OK. Thank you, Dave. Next up is the quarterly report for Hyperledger Explorer. I think everybody had an opportunity to review it. Arno, Chris, and Silas, I think are the only ones who haven't checked off on it. Are there any specific questions about the Hyperledger Explorer? Actually, I did review it, but on my phone, so I didn't... Oh, you didn't check it off? OK, perfect. Yep. So any... Do we have someone representing Explorer on the call today? OK, dead silence. I guess we won't do questions on it. It looked pretty straightforward to me and I think given that we've got the reviews and everything else taken care of, I think we'll move on on that. If there are any additional questions, just make sure you add them to the comment section. Yeah, the hard thing with Explorer is most of them are based out of China, by the way. Yeah. OK. So next up, I'm not sure where this came from, but there's been a request to move the TSC to an every two weeks schedule. So this was a discussion that we were having with Kelly and Dan in regards to scheduling and this was a proposal that Brian had moved, so that's where it came from. OK, this is an... OK, I'll just... We have two items for discussion that are sort of agenda-related things and they seem likely to end up bound together a little bit. So what are the thoughts first off? What are the thoughts on moving the TSC to two weeks, to an every two weeks schedule? And then I'm going to bring in this issue of... When we discuss that, keep in mind that we have a pretty substantial backlog of things that we keep suggesting that we need to talk about. I have to admit, I manipulated the agenda that way, because while I understand that people do want to move it to every two weeks, I'm having a hard time clearing the backlog. So it's like I understand that people would want to do that, but I've got this backlog, so that's going to be a little bit tough. So... This is Vipin. I have a couple of observations. One is we have already effectively less than one or two weeks schedule because of the multiple cancellations. Second, so we have to look at the data to see how often did the TSC meet in spite of the schedule, which is every week. The second is, in terms of the backlog, you've already set up a procedure to have asynchronous interaction with the updates, the reports. Similarly, there could be more engagement on the mailing list or otherwise that would make even moving the agenda to every two weeks work with the backlog if people participate in the discussions and give their approvals and do everything on the mailing list or any form of asynchronous interaction. So this is... I would like to know how many people actually support this among the TSC members. I don't. I don't. I don't either. I do not either. I think if there's nothing scheduled, we should just cancel the meeting. But in general, I feel we missed too many of them already because of the staff being somewhere or whatever. Right. I would agree with this. I am not supportive at all of cutting it back. The existence of a backlog sort of means that we're... Precisely. Precisely. OK. So by the way, guys, we are now at Quorum, just FYI. Oh, outstanding. I don't think other than the Aroha thing, I don't think we have anything else that might require a vote for it today. At least nothing that I see on the agenda. We could vote on this today if we wanted to. We could vote on this. Is there anyone who would like to talk in favor of going to a two-week cadence? Crickets. All right. Would someone like to propose a vote on this? I propose we vote on whether we should have meetings every two weeks or keep them scheduled for every week. All right. Well, should I rephrase that? So certainly last meeting is always better, but it seemed to me that, you know, this forum here is important for us to not only communicate, but because of the backlog, we still have quite a lot of work to do. I would prefer to be actively managed that if we don't have significant things to do, then cancelling that and not having the time blocked on the calendar, because, you know, in my case, if it's not there, it's going to be taken by something else. I think... Go ahead. Yeah, I think even we have a weekly TSM meeting, we still need more interactions on the meeting list than other weeks. Yeah, I just see there's a bunch of issues that maybe we're not addressing that, you know, I think we could address more with a meeting and discussions such as, you know, every project seems to say that they're having a lower participation now, or at least the working groups, I know the performance and scale working group, the participation's way down. The learning group, when I just read, they're struggling from the sound of it to keep going. And I don't know, you know, I think we need to start having those kind of discussions. What can we do to improve participation across working groups and maybe some of the projects? Sounds like another topic we should add to the backlog. Snicker, snicker. Feel free. That's a good point. Okay, so would anyone like to second Mark's call for a vote? I hate being formal, but... So what is the question? Let me read... Why don't you try to rephrase it? Yes, I would like to propose that we keep weekly meetings. Thank you. Yeah, I would like to second that call for a vote. Good. I second that. Okay, that kind of... I mean, we're not changing anything, so... I think we are reaffirming... We can just express our displeasure with this whole thing. Okay, I'm happy either way with it. So I think what you heard is that everyone on the call is opposed to moving for two weeks and we're all in favor of sticking with it. So let's just leave it at that. Okay, now that does bring up the second question, which is I think this issue of the backlog continuing to grow is becoming somewhat problematic. So let's just open up the floor to how do we go about clearing the backlog on it. So, Salon, I'm going to start with you. Do you have... I want to talk a little bit about sort of what you're going through with getting these topics on the schedule? Yeah, so the biggest thing is, you know, I have been occasionally posting things to the email list to ask that people try to start discussing different pieces of it, and it hasn't quite gone the way that I would like for it to. You know, like proposing in regards to frameworks, proposing different ones. And so I'm hoping that maybe it can be a little bit easier now that we have the wiki. And so if I propose these different topics and put a wiki page and maybe either make it public or, you know, do some kind of structure underneath the TSC section in the wiki so that we can actually have a discussion either via the wiki or via email so that we can kind of get something written. I think that people feel a little bit more comfortable with the wiki now. So maybe I can kind of point at that direction. But that's the kind of thing that I was kind of looking for is that we can take some of this discussion offline a little bit more and maybe start to work on actual documentation of it. So it's not just email threads that become kind of chaotic and hard to follow. Some of that is, so the ambassador's reboot is actually my fault. And I'm getting that all organized and it's not completely organized, so I haven't brought it to you all yet. But some of the other things, like trying to figure out what to do with some of the other groups and committees and working with them has been hard. And so bringing that to the group to help discuss it would really be nice. So that's kind of how I was looking at it. You know, of course, Brian wants me to put everything on the mailing list. And I put everything on the wiki. So we're kind of, you know, this is the other little... But at the time, I've even noticed on the agenda for today, for example, on the Roja stuff, I actually pointed to the mailing list from the wiki. Sorry, just one thing that I would note about that is that there's no names associated with the items that are currently in the backlog. There's no... Who's the responsible party for bringing those into... Well, bringing them to closure and ultimately bringing them to the TSC discussion, preparing for the discussion. So we all point to each other. As I say, we all point to each other and... Well, so I would just sort of take a page from my days in W3C, and I'm sure Arno did this as well. Just put, you know, every action item should have a name and a date associated with it. Or it's not on the backlog, right?  Yeah, I agree. Completely agree. Yeah, okay. I'm guilty of this. There's a couple on that backlog list that are my responsibility. I'll put my name and schedule time to talk about it. So Ambassador Reboot, that's Solana, yes? Yeah. And date? Into the month. Okay, I mean, you know, I'm not saying you need to help us understand when you think you can get it done by. That's what we have to do here. And each of these items, every time we have the backlog on the agenda, the names and dates should be on there. And if something is not moving, we just remove it from the backlog. Yep. I can have that. Not a problem. Okay. So I... Is that Dave? Is that you? Yeah, so let's go through that list. Test nuts is Dave? Yeah, that's me. And that could be today or next week. It's like as soon as possible. I have a proposal for that. Why don't you put the proposal out? Because I think we have to go through the aroha thing. I think that's going to be a little... That's correct. So we'll push it out like next week or week after, because we're going to be talking about aroha for the next... Okay. I think next week. All right, yeah. Project readiness? That's me too. That's a chew on... That'll probably be towards the end of the month, maybe early after April, because there's quite a bit of work still left to do. Okay, and what is this? This is creating a proposal for project readiness or just bringing the discussion up? Grand unified theory of what project readiness means. We have it all over the wiki. I'm trying to put it all into some coherent top to bottom. Here's what you need to do. Here's all the things you can do, all those things, right? Okay. Making it more checklist ready and easier for the TSC to go through and look at what we're doing, see how we're doing it. Also making it really available to the public so that they know that when we sit there and when we vote for the TSC to sit there and say, something is out there and going, that we've actually created a checklist that we can sit there and say, these are all the things we looked at. Okay, so Dave, that one's assigned to you, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm probably early April on this one. The idea is that if you're doing all the things in this product readiness package, that in real life, your project is pretty healthy and ready. Okay, does that subsume the vendor diversity? Yes. Yes. Okay, so both of those are really part of the same thing, right? Yep. Okay. I think diversity is going to be a very big part of the Roja discussion. Yes, that's the expectation. Election of the new chair, who's responsible for that one? At this point, they are. And I'm kind of trying to give them some guidance on that. But it hasn't really gone down yet because I feel like they don't even really have enough people to figure that out. So I have to circle back on that. But to be quite honest, I kind of neglected it with the camp. Okay, well, let's make sure we at least get a name on there for who would be the responsible party for driving it. Yeah, I'll talk to Bobby about it. It sounds like it's you. Yeah. At least for sort of bringing this topic. Back over to me. Yeah, bringing this topic to closure. Yeah. Okay. That's not ideally how I want to run the working groups, but yes. Okay, and Mark, the discussion you started to queue up, we should capture that as a discussion topic. Okay. Which is that at some level, it's overall engagement in projects. Right. And since you brought it up, can I put your name by it? Sure. Okay. Date. When do you want to do this? Um, I don't know, mid-April. Okay. Rye, can you also work with Mark on that in regards to some of the numbers in the scripts and getting that together? Of course. Thanks. And for the sake of blocking out some time, we should put indie moving to active status. And then also the semantic version of Indie SDK will be hitting 2.0. So those two should be on kind of the upcoming agenda. Okay. And maybe instead of calling it backlog, we should just call it upcoming agenda items. Or action items. Or action items or something, right? Yeah. Yeah, and by the way, Nathan, you can go ahead and add, you know, it's on the wiki if you want to put in the descriptions in your name and date. Okay. That would work. All right, cool. All right. Let's quickly do APAC Boot Camp and the BC Boot Camp. All right, so APAC Boot Camp went really, really well. We had over 100, I believe, 133 attendees, 110 on the second day. It's kind of hard to explain just how engaged everyone was. But it was a really hard working crew that got a lot done. I'd say about 80% of people onboarded about two platforms, sorry, projects, and close to 50 did three based off of the numbers that each of those groups had in their rooms. And then I had a few, you know, Pokemon, let's collect them all kind of people who like ran around trying to do all that. The Russian team from IP chain was like kind of going really gung-ho on it to the point where they were exhausted by the end of the two days. But I had six different developers, two with not very good English come up to me and say that this is the most productive event that they've ever attended because it was so developer, you know, centric. And the fact that we had about a third of the sessions in Chinese was a really big deal to a lot of the attendees. And we actually sat down with the Chinese working group and there's some big changes that Dave Hewsby and I are going to be doing to the Wiki to make it even better for localization and internationalization of the documentation going forward. You know, I believe, Nate, how many documents did y'all get translated to Chinese? There's three. One of them is the very, very sizable sovereign glossary. And we're seeing a lot of active translation going on even still. So there's six or seven folks who are very aggressively moving through documents at this point. Yeah. Indy was our star pupil. They were the rock stars at the event. They had anywhere from 30 to 50 people at their side pretty much the entire time. So I think that went really well. And Aroha had a lot of people. They had 15 to 20 people at any given time in their room as well. So they did really well, which was kind of surprising because a bunch of people came not knowing anything at all about them. And that was the thing that I think that a lot of people got out of it is they were like, wow, we just didn't know that there were this many projects. And they didn't realize that there were this many projects that we could participate in. And so, yeah, I think it went really well. Ry, Dave, did you want to say anything about it? Or Bawa, because he was there. Yeah, I was going to defer to Nathan or Bawa. Yeah, actually, I like the table discussion style. Yeah, they encourage more engagement between those developers and other attendees. Besides for the shallow projects, we have two sessions. And for each session, there are over 20 persons. Most of them focus on the question, like if I want to make some like a blockchain service solution, how can I leverage a channel? Or can I use it for the production purpose? Some questions, similar like that. Totally, I agree with Selena. It's a very successful event. And we should consider to make it regular, even for each year or maybe half a year. Yeah, I had basically, I don't know how many people at this point from China say, when's the next one? And I need to bring my friends. They're just like, this was awesome. I need to bring more developers here. We can have more developers here. I think they were very, very enthusiastic. I had one comment that I wanted to add here, that I got feedback on a lot. There were probably four or five people who came up to me to explicitly talk about this. I think just as in general, whenever we have a hyperledger event, we should explicitly tell the audience that it is OK to do it in whichever language you are comfortable in. Because I think a lot of the attendees came thinking they would have to do it all in English, which makes them a bit timid if they don't speak English very well. And when we told them all, you know what? Just do it all in Chinese if that's what you want to do. We got a lot more active discussion, a lot more active work, I think. And like I said, towards the end of it, I had lots of people coming up to me saying, this is really great. We didn't know we could do it in Chinese. Thank you. This is great. I just wanted to point that out that if you happen to be at a meeting, a hyperledger, and there's multiple languages being spoken, just tell everybody, just do it in your own language. It's fine, because we can find translators. Is it considered as a new diversity? Yeah, I mean, consider that just a pro tip along the lines of diversity and inclusion, right? We're an international organization. People doing things in their native language is perfectly fine. Yeah, but I guess I need to bring some difficulty for those American or European people. In China, we are technical guys. We know both Chinese and English. But yeah. Sure, I think it really mostly applies to live events like this, where we're all in the steam room. And we are setting up the Wiki to actually facilitate that so that we can have the multiple translations. And we can have the translations going in the other direction, because the China Working Group has been pretty dedicated to the translating into Chinese. And they also are into translating from Chinese into English. So I think with Chinese, we can support it the easiest. We're going to see how it goes with Portuguese and Brazil. But I guess the main thing is, is the fact that we are structuring things so that we can handle it. And at the very least, we can use some of the other translation tools. And this is where I do. Or would you have live translation events? So we have some live translation at this one, where basically, when I explained how unconferences work and how this was a curated unconference of what we were doing, Scott kind of paralleled me to explain that, which is one reason I think we got such a high level of engagement is because Scott, the entire time, like, walked them through how to create an LFID, how to update the Wiki, all of those different things as we were doing them. And so I think that went really well. I would also like to compliment attendees. The Wiki was very good to give preparation work for the different sessions that occurred. We had, I would say, the majority of the people who were in our sessions the first day had already done all of the downloading of Docker containers and had done some experimentation with all the pieces that we were reviewing. And that really accelerated the process and got folks to where they start doing active translations or log bugs and start looking at code. And that made a big difference. So having that preparation work in place and making sure that the Wiki is populated ahead of time really helped us cover more content. Thanks, Nathan. Okay, good discussion. I had a question if that's okay. I know you wanna keep moving. Okay, I wanna make sure we have plenty of time for the ROWA thing, so I wanna get through this. Yep, do we have something in place to track the return on investment, if you will, to put it in business sense. How many people from this are actually gonna start contributing to hyperledger? Is there something in place to track that somehow? I don't have that kind of tech yet. I'm sorry, Mark, I'm asking for it, but we'll see. However, we did have everyone at the end come up and we took down all the names of all the contributors who did actually manage to contribute and we even had a few bugs fixed. And I'm going to be sending out prizes to all of them and I have their email addresses, but I did not have anything where we're matching up their LFID to their GitHub ID kind of thing to make sure or yeah, so I don't have anything along those lines right now. I don't have those capabilities. Well, and just anecdotally I can confirm we have about seven different contributors from the group that haven't done a commit before but have contributed some content to Indie. And then also for the folks who are there in the Hong Kong area, Cyberport has invited us back to do a follow on event in May, which will have a kind of a similar format because they had some folks express the desire to come back and do another round. All right, so if it's okay, I'm going to cut the discussion off at this point. Solano, we've got Bootcamp contributor summit and the DNI meeting. Can we finish those in five minutes? Yes, so the contributor summit is still ongoing, still trying to find a location. I just met, I didn't know that there was a Japanese contentant for Linux foundation there. They don't typically do Hyperledger, but I'm going to be talking with him as well just to find the locations because he said that he might be able to help me. And then for the DNI meeting at OSLS at the open source leadership summit, Nathan, you will be getting a call because I think I've basically sold them all on Indie and figuring out how to tie Indie to the LFID to get the DNI meetings without having to worry about all the privacy issues because y'all solved that so well already. So that's both of those two. All right, any other questions for Solano on the Bootcamp contributor summit and DNI meeting? All right, so let's queue up the discussion on the AROHA. Nikolai, I sent around a proposal for moving AROHA to 1.0. Nikolai, you're on, right? I thought I saw you earlier. Yeah, I am on. So would you like to take over the discussion? Yeah, I can briefly summarize what is said in the request. So we're really close to the image which we depicted about the final version of AROHA, like an enterprise-grade solution. So all the features are in place. We're just fixing the remaining issues that are present in the code. They are not severe, although. So if you use the latest available version that is completely fine, we're just trying to run long-term running soak tests to observe whether any resource utilization is fine. But so far, we would like to request the TEC to request the TEC on approval for our first major release. We've been active for like one and a half years. So over this time, we maintain the required level of quality. All the code is under Apache 2 license. We've got sufficient test coverage. Our documentation is available in several languages and today we've met Rich from Hyperledger China Working Group and set up with him a process on how they will approve the translations and help us with more contributors in this region. We also have completed the core infrastructure certification and you can find all the details on specific things related to security, requirements and so on in the description for this badge. We've got, although, two issues, one of which is the diversity of maintainers for the project and contributors specifically. So the Iroha node code base and contributors are comprised of mostly ceramic employees and maybe, well, there are some non-ceramics individual contributors although they don't happen systematically. We try to fix our process and there is a diversity plan which is already in effect and we also have weekly meetings where we meet our contributors. There is some activity right now in the direction for Scala Library. Although we really want to attract companies who want to develop their own blockchain solution and contribute with their vision and ideas about DLT tools. So maybe if Alish can review the curtain a bit or Sarah, we can tell more about that. As for now, this is in progress. We're discussing with some of the companies their possibility of allocating resources in order to make the set of maintainers more diverse. And of course, diversity includes not only, let's say, vendor diversity, but also gender diversity and we try to reach out to local communities related to that as well. As for DCO, that's the second thing and some old commits are not conforming to DCO requirements. As Hyperledger Charter imposes the rule that all of the contributors, all of the contributions have to be signed off. We don't meet those standards right now because all commits are not signed off. So we've got a plan on how to fix this issue which has been reviewed with David but it has to be approved by the legal team of Hyperledger and also by TCI, I guess. In general, our user base is pretty big and we've got a lot of users in rocket chat channels. We've got pretty active telegram chat. We've got some questions on Stack Overflow and the cool thing is that our Docker image has been pulled 54,000 times and it means like from scratch. So those are valid numbers. And on Viki page, you can find more details and go over the diversity plan and over the actions that we think will help us reach more diverse state in terms of code maintainers. And there's also a plan on how to fix the issue with sign off thing. So maybe I just can jump in a bit and add something about the diversity thing. Yeah, hi everyone. What I would like to say, well, we cannot reveal the names of the companies but there are two big companies that we are discussing to jump on the help us with the maintenance as well as contributing to Iroha. We had two presentations and they express interest in joining but it takes time like with all big companies usually before they make a decision. And before making any decision at the TSC level regarding that, I would also like to say that it seems to us that it's a chicken and an egg thing because a lot of companies are waiting for a certain maturity level before they decide to join the task force to dedicate some resources to such projects. And I think Nikola mentioned this already in the email that we see that the closer we are to the final release the more people are looking into what we are doing. They are willing to try Iroha but one thing is that you try the new platform and completely another thing is that you commit yourself to dedicate resources and contributing to the platform. So maybe that's in short for the diversity and I would suggest this not to be an issue for today's voting. Yeah, thanks and I think that's all from our side except maybe for Sara if she has anything she's our community manager maybe she got some points. Would you like to jump in? Yeah, I just wanted to also say that Alasja's right and not only from the corporate point of view as soon as we informed people in the community that we are getting closer to the major release more people became engaged and some people decided to work on Scala Library and I believe that that's important for them that the code is almost ready. I think that there have been many changes in Iroha over the last one and a half years and now as we have a vision for Iroha we have a roadmap, people feel more comfortable contributing to it and companies will as well I believe. Thank you. Thanks. Can you guys comment on your outreach to universities or other academic institutions? I know that Inapples is looking at developing a master's in blockchain, is that related to Iroha? Yeah, sure. One of our maintainers is actually we actually planned some classes together on Iroha so there will be two groups of people doing assignments on Iroha creating two different systems and I believe they will be able to contribute it later to the community. So yes, we're working with Inapples University and also Vadim that actually presented Iroha on bootcamp also found some contacts of universities and I believe that we will also try to reach out to other universities as well and also there is a project in Japan on which Vadim is actually working at the moment and it's also in the university so I believe we'll have some interest from that point. Yes, so there is a university in Izu and also a university of Mariupol in Slovenia they used to work on fabric only but now they're also exploring Iroha and I think they are also planning to join the learning materials working group and potentially develop some materials for different platforms including Iroha. Are you seeing signs out of them like logging issues or fixing minor problems in the repositories? Are they starting to engage at all in the development track? If you mean the Inapples University that we're working with now they have a course on blockchain and at some point, not right now, not at the moment in I think in two weeks they'll start the classes on Iroha, especially Iroha. They will have some lectures about how to use it, some basic info to introduce them to Iroha and then they will make projects on Iroha, like use it. I think there are some kind of, there are two tasks. One about getting enrolled on different courses and another one I think is some enrolling to the basically to the universities we suggested two tasks and they can also make up their own tasks on Iroha. So they will be basically writing a code on Iroha and they will probably contribute it to the community later so it could be reused or maybe modified some way. I have a question about the night there on the Byzantine fault tolerant algorithm. First of all, I know that, so I think Yak is the crash tolerant piece and then I know there's an ordering service. Is that a BFT ordering service? How do they interact? And then I guess my main question is just, you said it's experimental now. What plans would there be to bring that into production ready state? Thanks, so just before I guess the third release candidate, the team understood that under the current conditions, the decentralized ordering service may split the network into several partitions if we don't modify the algorithm in a certain way. So there is an algorithm that is called Bosco BOSCO like a synchronous algorithm for distributed systems or something published in 2011 which has a different requirement for the number of nodes 7F plus one and it solves the problem in our case at least with this partitioning thing. So Yak itself will remain as a method in consensus but the algorithm overall will change a bit and we will just incorporate the second phase of voting in order to resolve the possible partitioning issue. Anyway, we decided to move forward with release because even knowing that we have already solution as a design solution for business in fault tolerant consensus, we still need to test it out. We still need to have peer review for this and possibly a formal model that can prove our assumptions and hypotheses. So we decided to move forward right now, have a consensus that is open to, well that is basically CFT because ordering service can split the network into several partitions under certain conditions. And in the future, it would be really easy to fix. We already have JIRA tasks and design but we still need to verify it with academic community and formal models. Thanks, that's helpful, it looks interesting that Bosco thing. On the crash fault tolerant, you mentioned about soak tests. What kind of soak tests have you run and what kind of failure modes have you been able to simulate like knocking out nodes and so on? Is there anything more you can say about that? For now, those are just simple soak tests where we load one of the nodes in several configurations, constantly with like one transaction from a client per second and we emulate those with like 100 clients and 200 clients and the network configuration is like, we've got 15 nodes, those are distributed over Amazon web service instances and we try to measure resource consumption and throughput. So we encountered some problems there, they are localized and we are fixing them. We also requested based on advice from David, a cluster of nodes from Linux. I don't remember the name of the service but you can create an issue on github and they give you out instances. So we just got today 31 VPS where we are going to deploy those tests. Of course, the results for this test should be available prior to the release so we are going to make them available and in the future there are plans to emulate some crashes so that you put down more than F nodes then you, well, bring them up, you observe that the network still can function so on. Just to clarify, that is CNCF is offering free nodes to any project that needs it. So it's open to everybody in hyperledger. Thanks. Okay, so I know that there were two other threads of discussion on the mailing list that I want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to ask the questions about. One is regarding the DCO and the second is more general sort of long-term commitment to the diversity issue. Those were the two big ones that were coming up in the discussion list. So Nathan, you started the discussion a little bit on the chat channel about the DCO. Do you want to ask your question at this point? I think first that I both have questions on this area. Yeah, so my first statement here is we've done exceptions to DCO and some of the Sovereign Foundation repositories on temporary basis and we've always found that that made the issues much, much worse over time because it gets harder and harder to contact the developers even internally at the company if there's more ambiguity about the recordkeeping and getting approvals from right management in order to make sure that everything is in order and can be contributed properly. So my question is, are the DCO issues internal to Sora Mitsu? And you mentioned that it's not possible to do a code freeze or a history rewrite to get commits signed and I'd like to understand a little bit more what the difficulties there are and maybe push back a little bit on whether it's a good idea to wait. Okay, so we still have some pull requests. They have no problem with DCO. Well, the DCO, we have in GitHub, in Hyperledger GitHub there is a DCO bot that checks every commit to have signed opening. And previously, commit history had a lot of issues in it. So it's like in 2016 and 2017, there were literally no sign-offs and I've sent some samples for those commits in the email thread. So if we move on with the release, we still need to fix them somehow. At the moment, it's really hard because there are some pull requests. So we've just got a plan right now that as soon as we decide to freeze the code completely, then we can put this version to archive so that anyone can check the history of changes in the project and modify the unconfirming commits and create with rebase and create a new repository where we put the new version. That's the one. You don't actually have to do that. So we just have to check with LF Legal, but the way that, for instance, when we contributed the code originally, we didn't have sign-offs on, but all the code was IBM and so we were able to sort of make a blanket statement that the code that we committed. And so we basically, I think the archiving the thing and saying this one doesn't count and then creating a new one where there's a single commit that's signed off by, you know, a codison or somebody from Soromitsu with the right authority should be enough to... I mean, there's 99.9% of the code is Soromitsu, so I don't... No, not really. We've got more external contributors. Next to you. Well, okay, I just did... For the purpose of the DCO, having it all in Soromitsu will make it a lot easier to manage through the history of it. I think what Nikolai's trying to say I think what Nikolai's trying to say is that the early work on Aroha was when Makoto-san was in university and I think there's multiple collaborators that were students that he was in school with or something. They're not Soromitsu people. So the second part of the question that was before is that some of the sign-off issues are external, like they are from the external contributors and we still need to decide what should we do with it. So our approach should work if the legal team is fine with this, but we need to approve that. So in general, when a project comes in, we, we, I'll have, I'm putting on my Linux foundation app. We, this is the reason we wanted to come in with a squash commit. So there's, there's just no question. If the code is already under Apache 2 and I'm taking off my, you know, LF account here, I don't see how it would be a problem to do, you know, archive, squash and publish. Do we know if it was under Apache 2 at the time of those commits? I guess it's the open question. Good question. Well, we don't have an answer for that. When Makoto-san, when he made the initial commit to put it under the Hyperledger org, there had to be some sort of a, I mean, that's sort of like day one. I mean, it sounds like we need to have a- Just move the stuff. How did it get there? Yeah, the initial one was me. Well, whoever, I mean, yeah. Well, it's been a few years, but as I recall, this was transferred in. I can go look at the, I have access to the log and I'm willing to pull that and publish it if it's really important, but I don't see an easy way out. I guess what we probably should do is mount a more formal investigation of the early, you know, try to account for all the change sets that are not signed off, make a unique set of the contributor names, cross-reference them with Sormitsu, and then that gives us the ones we need to track down. I think that's, we're gonna have to just do it the hard way. I think that's right. I think Sormitsu, and this is my understanding before, was Sormitsu can make a claim for all of its contributions. That's correct. That's because of their employment contracts. And so it's just the... It's just the external. Right. All right, so we are almost at time. I wanna make sure whose name is associated to getting that taken care of. Dave, are you gonna work with the client group to make it happen? Yeah, Rai has a lot more access. There's a little more familiar with the LS interest. I don't wanna volunteer him, but if he, you know, I'll do it. But I may need Rai's help on this. I mean, okay. So, I have a related question though. I mean, independently of how this DCO issue is dealt with, there's the question of whether we are allowed to pinch our nose and live with what we have today and release that as a one-zero, or whether we say no, this needs to be addressed first. And I have to admit, you know, the plan that was put forward does not sound bad to me. I just don't know why we wouldn't do that first. Why isn't it done? Yeah. My question would be why isn't it done first? I think it has to be done before we... It has to be done first, but not only that, but I mean, I just wanna touch on the just diversity thing just for a moment. I just did the numbers for the past six months and 99.9% of the code is coming from Soromitsu. And yes, there are a couple of individuals and people working first, you know, Spurbank and Yandex, but aside from that, it's all Soromitsu. So I understand that maybe people are working on documentation and so forth, but I mean, this is a single vendor project still. I mean, and we need to... I mean, I think a plan is good, but I do think we need to actually get demonstrated that this is more than one company's effort. So on that front, I have to say I'm a bit puzzled with the situation we find ourselves in, because in fact, you know, based on that very point, we shouldn't have this project be active. It should still be an incubation. And we, you know, we have agreed that we could have a one-zero release in some cases, even if project was not active yet. And for that very situation, but now we are in the completely reverse situation where we are tying the diversity of the community to the one-zero release, when really it should have been tied to the status of the project.  So we will not be able to do one point zero and people will be waiting for one point zero and then everyone will be suspicious what is going on. And, you know, we will never get there. So I'm not sure if this is the right strategy at the moment. Arno, were you suggesting that maybe pushing the project back into the incubation and then also doing a one point zero if we can fix the DCO stuff? Well, I kind of, I'm wondering whether this would not make things right in a way. Yes, I mean, we never really discussed this possibility of, but I actually, you know, when I realized the situation we were in, I'm like, how did we get to active status first? It seems like we made that move maybe a bit too casually. And I think if the project was still in incubation, we would be more open to say, yeah, we can still have a one-zero because the code itself is mature enough to qualify as a one-zero with the DCO stuff being taken care of. But I don't know if that's, we are willing to do that, you know, which would be like, just like you said, move back to incubation in, you know, as a representation of the status, the community diversity or lack of, and then still have a one-zero release because the code is mature enough, I don't know. Okay, so we, sorry, we are at time for this morning. Let's make sure that this is on the agenda for next week. Arno, can I ask you to bring up exactly that discussion to summarize what you just said on the mailing list and let's get that discussion happening asynchronously? Sure, I'll be happy to do that. Please do that. I think your point is a very good one and it's one we need to explore a little bit. I'm more comfortable with the quality of the code than I am with the diversity of the contributor base. And I think teasing that out the way you talked about it is a great idea. So if we can move that discussion on the mailing list and then conclude it next week. Do we have similar numbers? I'll present a DCO report next week as well. Okay, that'd be great, Dave, thank you. Do we have similar numbers for other projects whether contributor diversity wise? Chris just said 99.1%. I'm not talking about whether it's coming through a company that is being paid for by the main sponsor of the project. So that they would also subsume under the main sponsor. So do we have those numbers for fabric, sawtooth and others? Okay, so Fipping, can I ask you to also bring that onto the mailing list? Again, we're at time and I've got another meeting I've got to get to and I'm sure there are others as well. Your question is a very good question. Let's bring it up on the mailing list and see if we can get the information we need. Okay? Yep, thanks everybody. All right, thank you very much.


Okay, good morning everybody, good morning to all my bright students here and everyone online and as well as those who later logged into the e-learning portal. How's everybody? Good. Okay, what about all those there? Okay, I see Ravali. Okay, great, good. All right. So where are we? Do you remember where we are? Okay, so last week we actually finished the skills. We completed all the skills of counselling. Maybe before we start our next class I'll show you another graph just to how, you know, one leads into the other but we have completed the part of counselling skills. Now, unfortunately, like every other skill that we learn, you know, we can't just have textbook learning of a skill.  So similarly, counselling skills you have to counsel. Only then will you pick up those skills. So we've done the best we can to understand it. Now it is actually doing it. Okay, sorry? Fieldwork. Exactly, fieldwork. All right. The next couple of issues that we are going to be looking at is different challenges people may come with. All right. And how you as a counsellor needs to be aware of a lot of these challenges so that when they come to you, you have some understanding. Now these are very, very brief. We just touch and go on these topics. It's not a in-depth understanding. But nevertheless, if it really interests you, I would suggest, you know, do a little bit of reading and research to understand more about some of those topics. So today we're going to be looking at two topics. One is mental health and the other is issues in marriage and family. Okay, so it's a broad overview, but I think it'll help us really understand some things and how we as counsellors or people who are going to help in this field really need to work with those who may have these challenges. Okay. I'll just present my slides. Okay. Is it visible to everyone? Visible? Yeah. Okay. So we're going to be looking at mental health and something that before we get started with understanding about mental health, maybe just a little bit of a reflection for us to get in touch with the topic. Okay. So can you recall one positive emotion or feeling that you experienced? Anytime. What is one positive feeling or emotion that you experienced? Joy? Okay. What was happening at that time? What was happening? What was happening? It is a positive moment. What was happening that you felt happy? Yeah. Now I rejoice. So this is the happy moment. It's a happy moment because your brother gave you the mic. Okay. That's a happy moment. Okay. Annan, the joy. Yeah. Yeah. So what are some happy moments? Yeah. It was very difficult to get up in the morning when one day I got up early to pray. I was feeling so happy. You're feeling happy. Okay. Okay. Finishing assignments happy. Okay. So recall one negative emotion or negative feeling? Okay. So many. Yes. Say, Annan. It's an event. So how are you feeling? It's so sad. I'm angry.  Okay. Nikhil. Okay. So many experiences like about sadness about happy also. So many times so many things happened that like if in church also I am here. So in my church also if someone is calling and telling that is not going well. So that that things also I have to take care. Okay. Okay. So then someone calls you from your church and says something is going wrong. You feel upset. You feel sad. Okay. Happy. Happy. Yeah. Good things is happening. So I'll be happy. Okay. All right. Okay. So a lot part of mental health comes from a lot of our emotions, our thoughts, our feelings, our experiences. Okay. It's just to help you see reflect on the fact that maybe most of us sitting here have control or have a way to deal with our emotions or our thoughts. All right. But we're going to really look at a different side where people have mental health problems. So before I get into that, I'd like to bring about something called as the dimensions of wellness. How do you know or how do you evaluate that somebody has a good sense of mental well-being or well-being? And if you look at it, there are these eight areas. Okay. Physically, that is, you are physically well in your body, in your physical health. Intellectually, that you can think, you can study, you can engage in some something that keeps your intellect alive. Okay.  So your intellectual, you're doing something that really build your intellectual minds. Spiritual, right? This is part of the spirit where you're able to connect and have a walk with God, really grow spiritually. Emotional is in your feelings. Okay. How you're able to experience those emotions, whether you're able to control them social, that is, with other people, how your relationships are. Occupational, that is, if you are meaningfully doing something, it doesn't have to be only a job, but something that you're doing. It can be as part of, you can be a homemaker, but take care of your home, take care of children, take care of others.  Maybe some people don't have a house, they're living out in the streets. Right? So all these, this is what you look at the dimensions of wellness. So when you are, you say that you are holistically well, when all of these areas are in an optimum functioning. Clear? All right. Francis, what happened? I'm happy. Okay. All right. So you are well, well. Okay. So when we look at certain, one minute. Okay. So there are certain factors that, if you look at those eight areas of wellness, they're broadly divided into biological factors, social factors, psychological factors. Okay. How do you know that a person is mentally strong or mentally well? There are certain conditions or factors that help our mental well-being. Okay. So a mental well-being is not the absence of disease. It's not that something is wrong with you. It's not the, just the absence of disease, but it is a feeling that all over, all around you are, you have a whole sense of wellness. Okay. So when you look at biological factors, there are some things in your biological self that can contribute to mental health issues, which is neurochemistry. Neurochemistry is the chemicals that are in our brain. Sometimes when that is not produced in optimum levels, people can have a mental mental illness. All right. Are you following me? Yeah. Genetic predisposition is there is maybe someone in the family has a mental health issue and it can be genetic. That is, it is passed on genetically. Mental health can come as a result of some side effects of medicines. All right. It can be as a result of somatic disorders.  It can actually cause mental health issues. When you're looking at biological factors, how you eat and how you keep your body well with physical exercise also affects your mental health. Like for example, nutrition, if you don't have good vitamin D, what happens? You feel sad, right? You feel a lot more sad. It can be a factor for depression. So like that, if you're not eating properly with all the vitamins, it can cause some sense of mental health issues, physical exercise, right? Then substance abuse. If you are taking any kind of substances like alcohol, drugs or any form of substances that can affect your mental health. And lastly, developmental. That is, developmental is right from the time they are born as they're developing if there are certain issues there. And you must have seen autistic children who would have seen autism, yeah? Or you would have seen those who are mentally, they are challenged mentally, right? With an IQ that is challenged. So all of that comes under the developmental phase. So all of this are factors towards mental health, all right? Social, your religious beliefs can lead to some, to probably mental health issues.  So there are certain beliefs that come as a result of that. And as a result, until they do that, they don't feel a sense of peace or a sense of joy. Okay, so that it could, there could be religious beliefs that cause that or even culture, culture can affect mental health, interpersonal relationships, social support, gender identity, any kind of trauma that takes place, family issues, family background, environmental events, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic factor, all of this can have an effect on mental health. Is there any specific one that you want me to explain on? I'm just letting you know what affects mental health. Anything that you want me to talk about in that area? I mean, is it explanatory that all of this can cause mental health issues? Substance abuse is when you're taking something like alcohol, drugs, substance abuse, they're all called substances in a whole. Okay, all right. Psychological is more the way that they have personal identity, the way that they see themselves, the way that they, you know, it relates to their self-esteem. It relates to the kind of emotional health that some people may have in the way that they are able to experience different situations in their life and how it affects them emotionally. Coping skills, coping skills are basically, see all of us when there are some struggles that happen, when there is a crisis that happens, there are certain ways we cope. We may pray, we may talk to somebody, we may, you know, write it down in a journal or, you know, there are other things that we may do that's called coping. So that also all of this affects our psychological factors that can affect mental health. I mean, this is just, this is just an information, don't have to think too much of it. Okay, now I'm going to give you all some sentences and I want you to tell me if it is a fact or if it is a myth. You know what myth means, right? You tell me if it is a fact or a myth. Mental illnesses are untreatable. Myth, okay. Mental illnesses right now can be treated. It can be treated. There are very many ways that it can be treated, either through medication, also through counseling support, through psychological support, a lot of mental illnesses can be treated. Lack of willpower causes mental illness. Nina? Myth, okay. That's a myth, okay. So mental illness can affect anybody, all right. And it is basically not because you have that sense of will, okay, nothing is going to go wrong with me. It's not because of a lack of willpower. So it is a myth. It could be a reason for mental health also. No, no. People get depressed when they are unable to see what they want to do. Yeah, that's what I said. So people who have depression doesn't mean that they don't have a good willpower. It doesn't have to mean that. There are many factors that affect which I will come to that affect mental illness. And it doesn't, it's not only because you have a lack of willpower, right? You may be a very strong person, but you can have a mental illness, okay. Marriage can cure mental illness. Myth, okay. Marriage cannot cure mental illness. It, it not that it will make mental illness worse, but then it can, there can be a huge number of problems. Sorry? Added, yeah, there can be a huge, huge problems added. Okay. Mentally ill patients belong to hospitals. Myth, Francis. Myth, what is the, what is the one question I asked? Okay, all right. Okay. So, yeah, mentally ill people don't belong to, may need help in hospitals, but after that they can be integrated back into the, into their home or into their community. Okay. Mental health problems are only seen in illiterate or poor people. It's only seen in poor people. Even the, even, even the online students can, can join in please. They're only seen in, okay. It's a myth. It, okay. Anand is saying all of you can show by those emojis, either fact or not fact. Okay. Yeah. So mental health problems can affect anyone, whether they're educated, whether they are poor, whether they're rich, whether they're whatever place it can, it can affect. Okay. People with mental illness can never be productive or do normal work like normal people. Okay. Of someone who had a mental health problem. Yeah. It's a myth. And that's why it's important to get help as soon as possible. The faster someone gets help, the faster they can move back into a normal level of functioning. Okay. And so that's why it should be considered. Mental illness is unlike physical illness, the illness, illness is really all in the person's head. Maybe a fact. It's a myth. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it doesn't represent with like, like a physical illness that you can't see a hand is broken or a head this, you know, toes are broken, whatever it is not just in the so what does this statement actually mean is that means they're making it up. So are the people making it up? Okay, they're not making it up. They're not making it up. They are, it is a genuine difficulty that they have. Okay. Although you cannot see it manifested in the physical body. All right. Mentally people have weak characters since they can't cope with the world in the same way that the rest of us do. What about the online students? They're saying, okay, okay. All right. It's a, it's a myth. Yes. Okay. It's not because you have a weak character or a personality. And that because you can't cope. There are, there are very many conditions that this happens. Okay. Once a psychiatric patient always is a psychiatric patient myth. Right. Giving only myths. Okay. Children don't suffer from psychiatric illnesses. Myth. Yeah. Even children suffer equally from psychiatric illness. Mental health disorders are a result of bad parenting. A fact. It can be a contributing factor. It's not a cause. It's not a direct cause. Yeah. So it's one of, it can be one factor that brings about, but it is not a complete result. Many of us may be a result of bad parenting, but we're all it's a half fact, half myth. Okay. Mental illnesses are contagious. That is a little spread. It'll spread. It'll transmit to others. Okay. It's, it's a myth. Attempting suicide is a sign of cowardice. It's a myth. Okay. So it's a myth that attempting suicide is a sign of cowardice. Okay. It's a myth. It is, it's not a sign of cowardice. Okay. Mentally ill patients are violent and dangerous. So it depends on the, it depends on the condition that you, that you have. Right. So some can be violent, but not all patients are violent and dangerous. It depends on the kind of illness. Okay. So, so there again, it depends on what condition they have, which I will explain to you. Right. So not all people are violent. Yeah. What kind of a mental illness they have. Mentally ill means the person has a lack of faith. Okay. Yes. All right. Okay. Good. So the, the definition of mental health from the world health. You're here. I have a doubt. Yes. Tell me. So like, if one person have mental health, mental problem, we can do counseling or like, we need to, is there anything like we can like treat through counseling? So it really depends on the condition. There are some conditions that definitely require medical assistance and help. Okay. But there may be some that you can work with counseling. And there again, they're all case specific. That is, it's unique to every individual. So someone, you may find two people who come to you with depression. One may have severe depression with suicidal attempts or with significant death wishes. They need medical help. You may find someone also with depression, but it's a milder form. There are no death wishes, no suicidal attempts, but just a feeling of sadness and negative thoughts. We can try helping them with counseling. All right. So it depends on a, it's very case specific. You can't say, this, all these kind of illnesses you can deal with counseling and these with medicines. Okay. All right. So the World Health Organization is what is, what about this definition? Mental health is a state of well-being in which a person understands their own abilities, also can figure out or cope with the general stress of life, also can be productive and fruitful and can make a contribution to their community. So you need to have these different factors. It's a state of well-being. They are able to know their abilities. They're able to cope with the general stress of life. They can work and they can make a contribution to their community. Okay. Just some quick facts or quick understanding about mental health disorders. Like we said, it can affect anyone, men, women, children, poor, rich. It's very common. In fact, the statistics may be even lesser now. One in four people would have some form of a mental health issue. Yeah. So there are eight of us here. Maybe two of us can have mental health issues here. Okay. So it's, they don't look very different from others. You cannot make out just by looking at them at all times that someone has a mental health disorder. It can range from common to severe. So it may be something like anxiety or it can be something that is more severe like schizophrenia or I'll tell you what those are or like a mood disorder, bipolar disorders. That's a trait. That's a personality trait. That's not a mental health issue. It's a personality trait. Okay. But those factors make you more vulnerable for a mental health issue when you're too pessimistic. Yeah. It keeps maybe they get into anxiety or panic or depression. It's like open doors, you said. That's right. Okay. Mental disorder is more than just stress. It's not just feeling stressed that you become mentally ill. It can be either brief or it can be long term. So there are some people who may have it for brief episodes or it can be long winding, long standing. It affects the quality of life. That is, it affects their work. It affects relationships. It affects their functionality. It can really bring down the productivity of a person. That's what we mean by quality of life. They're not able to be productive. It can have stress on the entire family. When someone is mentally ill, it can really cause a significant struggle in the rest of the family. But there are effective forms of treatment. There are many treatment factors. Okay, clear. Any questions from the from the online students? Okay. Now, what can a mentally healthy person do? A mentally healthy person can, sorry, yeah, is able to have good thought patterns, right? When we mean good thought pattern doesn't mean that always they're thinking well. But it is a, it's one way in which they are able to really, whatever stress or whatever issue may come about, they can kind of think clearly. They're able to process clearly. They can build strong relationships. A mentally healthy person can have strong healthy relationships.  And they can contribute and do something in their community. So this is what you will call a mentally healthy person. Someone who thinks clearly, who's able to have good relationships with other people who can cope with stress and who can have a contribution in their regular, in their community. Okay. Next, what are the signs of, oh, this is not very clear. Okay. What are the signs of mental wellness? Okay. The signs of mental wellness is number one. How satisfied? Okay. So I think before we look at that, your mental health actually influences three areas. How you think, how you feel, and how you behave. Right?  All right. Strong mental health, like I said, strong mental health is just not the how you think, how you feel, and how you behave. Okay. Now mental health is, like I said, is not just the absence of mental health problems. Being mentally or emotionally, emotionally healthy is much more than being free of depression or anxiety. It is the presence of positive characteristics. Okay. That are helpful. That's what makes people healthy. The presence of positive characteristics. And this is what it is. One is a sense of contentment. That is, you're satisfied with who you are. For example, if you're very dissatisfied with the way that you look, right, or you're very dissatisfied with the way that that your life is. What happens? There can be a lot of worry. It can be a lot of, you know, you're harboring a lot of anger or a lot of resentment. Right? So just having a sense of contentment with who you are. So just being satisfied with who you are. Okay. It also is where you have, what can I choose here? Where you're engaging with meaningful activity. That you're doing something with your time, rather than sitting at home in the bed sleeping all the time. But you're engaging with something meaningful. Maybe you're studying, you're working, you're meeting friends, you're doing a project, all of that is helpful. A sense of connection with others. If you're able to relate well with people, it brings about a good mental health, right? Imagine if you're fighting all the time with somebody. You kind of say something is wrong with that person, you know, that they don't, they're not able to connect very well with someone. There's something unstable about them. Yes. So being introverted is a, is a different thing, rather than not being able to establish a relationship at all. Even if they're able to connect with a few people, that's fine. You don't have to connect with everyone everywhere, but always having a struggle with people, you know, with authority, with friends, with peers, with family. That shows a difficulty that it's, it's not a positive characteristic for mental health, okay? Because it can, it can cause significant sense of, what do you say, isolation. When you're isolated from others, it really affects your mental health, doesn't it? What happened? Okay, all right. Okay, now don't look at one and say, I'm not mentally well. That's not the idea here. What we're looking at is a good factors that make, so if you find, and I'm not saying that all nine of us, all nine traits that I hear each of us will have, we won't. There will be two, three missing. But the idea is to find a way to really work with those areas, okay? Then a sense of self-control. Do I have self-control about my eating, about my spending, you know, okay? About my substances, about, or drugs or smoking or alcohol, is there a sense of control? Watching TV, phones, is there a sense of control? So, so think about it. What happens if you're watching too much of, yeah, you're on social media all the time. What happens? Headache, okay.  In the perspective of mental health, tell me. Yeah, you feel stressed one because you're seeing so many things, right? When you're looking at Instagram, you're seeing so many reels that, that is physical. I'm talking about mental health. Yeah, you will be addicted. Nina said you will be isolated from everyone else. You will begin to compare yourself with what you're seeing over there. You're not being productive, right? So you can get depressed. So you see that? So a sense of when there's no control, what happened? That, that, yes, you're communicating with people, but too much of that can, can keep you away from actually meeting people face to face. And then you find it odd to see people face to face and discuss something. Everything is done through the, through online, because there's no face to face interaction there, right? So sense of self control. Next is forgiving others. If you have a unforgiveness, what happens? Anger, irritation, bitterness, and that will breed contempt inside of you, right? You will become an angry person, right? And you're not tolerant, you're not patient with others. Okay, so these are all characteristics of what you say of mental health. Optimism and hope, always looking forward with optimism and saying that, okay, things will get better. Have a hope about whatever situation there is. Tolerance, being tolerant with other people with, with things that don't go your way, right? Having tolerance, gratefulness, being able to say have Thanksgiving and saying, you know, with whatever I have, I'm grateful for or a sense of humor. Now, these are all just signs of good mental health. So someone who, who has this shows a lot of confidence and self-esteem. Francis, what happened? I'm worried of the way that you're looking. What happened? You also don't know what happened. Okay. All right. Let's move on. Okay. Okay. So, like I said, what's a mental illness, a mental health condition affects the way a person thinks, a person feels, and the way a person behaves. And it can have, that is what can have a negative effect on the, on the person. All right.  And these are the, and these are some things that you may need to know to recognize some signs. So they may manifest in very different ways, and they can have an impact on others very, very uniquely. All right. But there are some common signs of mental health disorders that we can watch out for. So the first is illogical thinking. The way a person thinks is very illogical. Like they may, and this is what, you know, some of the, some of the thoughts that they may have, not all, again, this depends on the kind of illness. They may feel that people are watching them, or people are talking about them, or people are trying to kill them. So they have very, very bizarre illogical thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. So those are illogical. It's, it doesn't have any rational behind it. Okay. There can be nervousness or high anxiety for everything. They're very, very nervous and extreme anxiety. Yeah. So it depends on what kind of illogical thinking you have, right? If it is something like this, like I said, the fear, the surety that everyone is talking about him. Okay. So it can be because of two things. It can be because of social anxiety also, or it can be because of a mental health issue, severe mental health illness. But nevertheless, it's a, it's a fact of mental not, not being completely well, right? It is a factor. Nervousness or high anxiety, that can be a cause of a symptom of mental illness, a loss of desire. There's no energy, there's no interest in doing anything. There's a loss of drive. You know, there is just, the person doesn't feel like doing anything can be a symptom of mental health, mental illness. There's a decline in school, in work, in whatever they're doing. They're not functioning as well. Or mood shift, major mood shift. Sometimes they're very happy. Sometimes they're extremely sad. That can be another symptom. Withdrawal from interests, relationships, social responsibilities. They don't want to do anything, not talk to people, go to class, go to work, take responsibility in their lives, nothing. Tightened sensitivity. So even small things can make them feel very, very sensitive, maybe angry, maybe sad, any of that. Changes in sleep or appetite or problems thinking clearly or co-gently. That is not being able to think well. What are some warning signs of mental illness? And this is important to know because some of the times, we may see one or two of these symptoms, it's important to observe and see what there is. So one is feeling very sad or withdrawn for more than two weeks straight. It is a sign of probable depression. Prying to harm or end one's life or making some plans to do that. The third is having risk-taking behavior that causes harm to self or others. Like maybe they're in the car and they're driving rashly. They cause harm not just to themselves but also to others. Sudden fear for no reason. Sometimes with a racing heart, a physical discomfort or breathing. So these are all, it's just fear that just takes on something like a grip that's there. Significant weight loss or gain. Seeing, hearing or believing things that aren't real. So they may tell you that there are people outside waiting for me when there isn't anyone or they're able to hear certain voices when there aren't actual people around. Excessive use of alcohol or drugs, severe changes in mood, difficulty in concentrating and significant worries that get in the way of daily activities. Okay, okay. Now there are different types of mental health disorders and I'm not going to get into the, to each of them but I just need to let you know what are some of these disorders that really need significant help. Okay, mood disorders. Those are mood disorders is either depression or what we call as mania. Okay, this requires absolute help. Anxiety disorders, post-traumatic stress disorders are something that happens after a, like a huge calamity, like maybe after an earthquake or after a flood or after a major accident. After some trauma, they go through something called as a post-traumatic stress disorder. There can be psychotic disorders. Psychotic disorders are those where you see, hear and the person is not in this reality. They are in another reality. They are living in another kind of a world in their mind but for them it is very, very real. All right and there are, yes, addiction disorders.  Okay or even drugs. Someone taking drugs or someone taking alcohols is a mental health disorder and yeah, there are eating disorders. There are personality disorders. These are all the different types of somatic disorders are those who, who keep talking about pain in the body but there is no physical evidence of why they should have the pain. No, they're not making it up. Okay. It's, it's a result of some kind of a stress that's built up that it becomes more internalized. It's not that they're making it up but there is no evidence of any kind of a physical contribution or a physical source. So they keep going to hospitals over and over and over and over again because every doctor will say, no, they may be experiencing physical pain. They may experience physical pain but it is more psychological. It's not physical. It's psychological. Yeah. There is nothing to show that but it's a more psychological thing. It's like this. When you have, let's say, you're very tensed about something. Do you begin to get a headache? Yeah. Why? So it's a psychological effect. It's not that you have a migraine or you have a tumor in your head. It's a psychological effect. So psychological effect can also bring about these kinds of pains and aches. Okay. All right. Now, mental health conditions are usually as a continuum. Okay. So usually they, not all mental health conditions will go from stage one to stage four. Okay. Some will be at stage one. Some would be at stage two, three. So it really depends but then it is always a continuum. So stage one are those that have very mild symptoms and warning signs. Very, very mild. Stage two are those that increase, these symptoms will increase in frequency and it will become severe that it will begin to affect certain life activities and or certain responsibilities that they're having. Stage three is where there are significant episodes and there is a huge disruption in their life activities and stage four is that it is very persistent and severe that they're not able to do anything absolutely. So we could, we can be in different stages. It doesn't mean every illness will move from stage one to stage four but it can be presented in any of the stages. So it's a continuum basically. Okay. So one of the, a very important thing about mental health is what we call as stigma. Do you know what the meaning of stigma is? Okay. Stigma is when you ostracize or when you keep aside people saying that there is a problem like this. Like untouchables. You know what untouchables are? You won't go near them because they're untouchable. All right. So similarly stigma also means it's a social sense of a, what do you say? You're keeping people away because of something that they have. That's what is called a stigma. So a lot of times, you know, when maybe in villages you may have seen if someone is mentally ill, no one will really go near the person or do anything to help or support and say, yeah, he's crack. He's crazy. He's mad. Right. So that's what you call a stigma when you don't associate or bring them alongside with normal phases of living. Okay. Okay. So how do we reduce stigma? How can we not show any kind of a discrimination of people who have mental health illness? Show compassion and love. Encourage equality. That is between physical and mental illness. Never think that physical illness is greater than mental illness. Right. Physical ill is somebody being physically ill.  Mentally ill. So each need the equal support and help. Educate yourself and others about mental health. Learn more about what mental health issues are. Okay. Do not stereotype or label people with mental health. Oh, that one, that one who has depression. So don't label them as people with the disorder or that one who has, who keeps talking to himself. Right. So do not label. Choose, you know, empower more than shaming. Be respectful when you talk about people or with mental health or even talk about mental health. Be a positive role model and take time to openly discuss about mental health. Okay. How do you support those with mental health issues? One thing that you can do is encourage them to get help. So take them to a hospital, take them to a mental health professional to get help. That's the first thing you can do. Then offer to go with them for help and support. Okay. Help them make an appointment with someone with a mental health professional. Get them access to services. Like for example, for those who have alcohol addiction, there are groups of people who work together to deal with alcohol addiction. Encourage them to exercise, eat a healthy diet. Encourage them to spend time with their friends and family and of course also ensure that you can also help them keep praying for them and helping them. Okay. Yeah. So this is just a quick overview. If you're more interested, please go back and do some reading on it. Okay. It's just, it's a touch and go. All of these topics are just touch and go that you know that you may have people who come with mental health issues and how you as an individual or as church can really function. So even as a church, we should be able to support people with mental health issues. Okay. All right. Any questions? Okay. No questions at all. So we shall stop for a break and come back at 11-1. Okay.