Hi, everyone. My name is Amir. I'll be talking about lower bounds and obfuscation from all or nothing encryption And I'll define what it means to have all nothing encryption later during the talk This is joint work with Sanjom Garg and Mohamed Mahmoudi So let's define again what an distinguishability obfuscation is or IO It was first proposed by Barack Attala in 2001 And basically says that it's an algorithm that takes as input a circuit And outputs a functionally equivalent circuit And for security we say that for any two functionally equivalent circuits of the same size An adversary shouldn't be able to distinguish between the obfuscation of one or the other And following the first candidate construction of Garg Attala in 2013 IO has shown to be a quite powerful force allowing many applications to be built upon it Including functional encryption, two-round multi-party computation And even proving the hardness of complexity results And there are many more applications following that So given the usefulness of IO, one natural question to ask is what assumptions could give us IO And to answer this question, so we have two main ways to get IO at the moment that we know of The first being from multilinear maps And this was initiated by Garg Attala in 2013 And a series of works have followed this approach Showing either an improved constructions or weakened assumptions And the alternative way to get to IO is through some form of functional encryption From which all constructions of this kind of functional encryption also are built All known constructions also are built using the multilinear maps as well And as you've seen from the previous talk by Rachel The state of the art of constructing IO from functional encryption Happens to be based on trial linear maps and PRGs with some spatial properties And their construction is not black box However, due to certain attacks against the instantiated multilinear maps We are having now less confidence in the security of the known constructions of IO And so this motivates us to ask whether there can be any other alternative Preferably standard assumptions that could give us IO instead of using the more exotic multilinear maps assumptions And to answer this question, a series of works have shown that none of these primitives give us IO in a black box way This includes collision resistant hash functions, trapdoor permutations And even the generic group model, anything that is hard and generic group model cannot give us IO in a black box way But this still leaves the possibility of whether there are more sophisticated primitives or perhaps stronger assumptions that could give us IO And in this work we extend this line of research by showing that under mild assumptions Where mild assumptions that we make is basically that when we function exist and that the hierarchy does not collapse That there is no black box construction of IO from any of these primitives And the kind of non-black box techniques that we rule out are especially relevant in this context when we deal with these kind of primitives And this is where the title of the talk becomes relevant is that all of these primitives are of all or nothing nature Meaning that if you have the decryption key then you could decrypt the ciphertext and get back the entire plaintext Otherwise if you don't have the decryption key you learn nothing And so the plan for the rest of the talk is that first I will describe the black box model and our proposed monolithic model Which captures the non-black box techniques that may be used to construct IO from the primitives that we will separate it from And the second part of the talk is I will describe the high level ideas behind our separation results And leverage the all or nothing property of the primitives that I mentioned before So let's go over the first part here So in the classical black box framework of Impluglizer-Rüdisch and the Reingold-Trebisand-Vatan Black box construction of IO from P basically means that IO uses P in a black box way It only uses the input-output behavior of P And this is natural when P happens to be the one-way function of the trapdoor permutation However this is not the case when we deal with more sophisticated primitives or non-black box techniques For example one common non-black box technique involves doing some form of computation or work that could have circuits with one-way function gates inside them This behavior is observed for example in the case where we could have zero-knowledge proof over circuits with one-way function calls In order to realize identification schemes Another example which is relevant to this session is IO over circuits with one-way function calls could result in many applications Some of which are represented in the Sahay and Waters paper So there are also previous works that tried to prove limits of this kind of technique This technique where a construction queue is based on a construction P that accepts circuits with one-way function gates And here are just some of the works that prove limitations of this kind of technique starting with the work of Berkersky, Katz, Segev and Yurikimovich Where they show that key agreement protocols cannot be based in a black box way from witness indistinguishable proofs for statement with one-way function gates Also to show the limits of IO, Segev shows that you cannot get collision resistant hash functions or one-way permutations from IO for circuits with one-way function gates And as you will see in the next talk, the work by Berkersky et al. they will show that IO for oracle-aided circuits that could have one-way function gates inside them Do not imply structured hard problems in say NP-intersect code But what about the FE to IO construction due to Anantrgyn and Bitansky-Vaykuntinov? Does this construction fall under the model where the IO uses the underlying FE by providing it with circuits that could have one-way function gates inside them? Well, no, that's not the case If you look back to the construction, the IO actually feeds the key generation function of FE, a circuit that contains encryption gates of the FE So in some way, you can think of FE as being used in a self-eating way FE subroutines are being fed back to FE And this is different from the functional FE for circuits with one-way function gates This does not fit the previous models And this is not an uncommon behavior There are other examples that do not fall under the circuit with one-way function gates model For example, one famous example is the FE bootstrapping by Gentry Where we have to feed the decryption algorithm back to the evaluation algorithm And this is also another behavior of what we call self-eating Also, you have the IO bootstrapping due to Gargatal in 2013 Where to show that in order to get IO for poly-sized circuits, you need to feed the evaluation and decryption of FE back to some IO for a smaller class of circuits So these two also do not fall under the circuits with one-way function gates model So inspired by this previous model that showed how to prove the limitations for circuits with one-way function gates model We extend this framework and propose our own model called the monolithic model Where we say we have a monolithic construction of IO from some primitive P If this primitive P can accept circuits with any arbitrary P gates That is including P1 or P gates And it is not constrained to only a specific type of gates such as a one-way function gate And this for example captures the FE to IO construction It captures the bootstrapping theorems And this is where we are going to use this monolithic model to prove our separation results So if I were to restate our result, instead of saying there is no black box construction I will accurately say that there is no monolithic construction of IO from any of these primitives Great, so let's go over the second part which is I'll talk about the high level ideas behind the separation results And all of our results are based on proving an impossibility of IO from some form of witness encryption And so I'll be focusing on witness encryption for the rest of the talk So let's say we want to prove that this kind of construction is impossible Let's say we want to prove that a monolithic construction of IO from P is impossible This is actually an equivalent way of looking at it You can actually look at it as a fully black box construction of IO from what we call an extended P Where extended P is simply the primitive P where the P is allowed to accept circuits with any types of gates inside it And this is different than proving an impossibility result And it suffices to prove that fully black box construction of IO from extended P is impossible To show that monolithic constructions of IO from P is impossible And this is different from showing an impossibility result of fully black box construction of IO from a normal P The extended P is actually a stronger primitive And we have to make sure that we carefully define what it means to have this kind of extension for this kind of primitive And so in order to prove our impossibility result we're going to rule out a fully black box construction of IO from this extended P Great, so let's go over the general plan behind proving what it means to rule out a construction of IO from P in a black box way And this is the plan of the general plan of how one does this So the first step is we first define an idealized oracle that securely realizes the primitive P For example in the case of the Connecticut where they show that IO cannot be based on one-way function in a black box way Their idealized model happens to be the random oracle And the second step is that now that we have the idealized oracle The second step is to compile out this idealized oracle from IO in the idealized model And get back an approximate IO in the plain model And by approximate IO we simply mean that it is correct on almost all inputs Then we use the work, the third step is that we use the work of Brackersky, Bruschka and Fleischacker To conclude that from the previous two steps we find that there is no black box construction of IO from P And we want to apply this plan for the case of proving that monolithic constructions of IO do not, from witness encryption, does not exist And I will only focus on the first two steps since this is where the main challenges of our work appear And notice that in the first step where we need to define idealized oracle, we need to define idealized oracle that implements extended witness encryption Because recall that a monolithic construction of IO from witness encryption is actually a fully black box construction of IO from extended witness encryption So we need an I oracle that implements extended witness encryption So what is witness encryption in case you're wondering? So witness encryption says that you can encrypt a message with respect to some circuit, let's call it F And if we want to decrypt the circuit I would only get back the message if the supplied witness is a satisfying statement to the circuit If it is not a satisfying statement I would get nothing And when we want to define what extended witness encryption is We basically mean that the function that we supplied during encryption and evaluated during decryption can only contain witness encryption case That is encryption and decryption case So that is what we mean by extended witness encryption And if we want to define such an oracle it's quite simple to define We just simply define it as a form of idealized encryption and decryption functionality Where the encryption could happen could happen to be for example a normal random oracle So given this oracle our next step is to compile out this oracle from IO Okay, let's see how one does this we are starting with an extended witness encryption oracle In the IO and we have an IO in this idealized oracle And we want to end up with an IO in the plain model that does not ask any queries to the oracle but it is approximate And the two main questions that we'd like to ask when we compile out this IO is how do we obfuscate in this new obfuscation And how do we evaluate this new obfuscation So the general idea behind the compilation process was introduced by Kanati Kali and Panath In the context of compiling out the random oracle from an obfuscator in the random oracle model And it consists of two steps The first step being an emulation phase where I would run the ideal model obfuscation While emulating the queries that are asked by this ideal model obfuscation I would emulate it consistently and I would get some output some circuit as an obfuscation The second step is the learning phase where I would run this algorithm many times on different random inputs While still emulating the queries and answers during the learning phase The purpose of this phase is I would like to learn all the highly likely queries that might occur in the evaluation So I would run it many times, answer the queries consistently And the output of this obfuscation is the ideal model obfuscation along with the queries that were asked or learned during the learning phase The queries and the answers And if I want to evaluate this new obfuscation on a new input I would simply run, execute this ideal model obfuscation on this input While answering the queries with respect to the queries and answer pairs that were learned during the learning phase So we added these queries that were asked during the learning phase in order to make sure that we answer them We answer the queries during the evaluation phase consistently and correctly And note that by adding them we do not hurt security because these queries are learnable That is any adversary in the ideal model could learn these queries on its own So it's fine to include them in the output of the obfuscation So what happens when we look at the compilation process, the same compilation process When we look at it and we want to compile out the witness encryption or the extended witness encryption oracle So the challenge that we face here is that during the learning phase There might be decryption queries that were asked And these decryption queries might have hidden queries as a result of behind the scenes queries that could be asked when evaluating F Now recall that since we're dealing with extended witness encryption, F the circuit could have witness encryption gates So due to the existence of these hidden queries We cannot add these hidden queries to the output of the obfuscation because they are not learnable And adding them will hurt security However, not adding them would hurt the correctness of the scheme because then we wouldn't be able to answer the queries of the final evaluation consistently So how do we resolve this problem? Well, let's go and look back at the oracle And we're going to modify our oracle a bit by adding a subroutine called the reveal subroutine That takes as input a ciphertext and outputs the circuit And that's it And we note that adding this subroutine doesn't hurt the security of the witness encryption oracle So now that we added this reveal subroutine We could actually make use of it to uncover these hidden queries How do we do that? During the learning phase, every time a decryption query is asked We reveal the ciphertext that we want to decrypt Get back the function and make B run the function itself This forces the hidden queries to become discoverable And once they are discoverable, they can also be learnable by any adversary in the ideal and ideal model And again, since they are learnable queries, they can be safely inserted into the output of the obfuscation as well And we can then evaluate the circuit consistently with respect to the queries and answers that we learned during the learning phase So that's how we solved it for the case of witness encryption However, when we look at predicate encryption Predicate encryption The challenge here is the same, we still have hidden queries because we're dealing with extended predicate encryption And extended predicate encryption could have circuits with predicate encryption gates And therefore they might be hidden queries behind the scenes So how do we uncover these hidden queries? Well, we can't We cannot have reveal subroutines as this would violate security We cannot do it for all decryption queries So then what can we do? Well, the thing is during learning, whenever we call a decryption If the decryption happens to succeed, then we can uncover the hidden queries that were asked by this decryption So we can only uncover, we can only do like partial discovery of the hidden queries And we can only uncover these queries if the decryption succeeds And we argue that this is sufficient, discovering like partial queries is sufficient To show that the consistency of the evaluation holds and the correctness also holds And so that's how we solved it for predicate encryption And using the same argument because of the all or nothing property of the encryption schemes We, leveraging this property allows us to discover the queries that were hidden By revealing the message that was encrypted So that's how we, that's how we, that's the high level idea of the proof And as a summary, I'm going to state that here, basically the result where there's no monolithic construction of IO From any of these primitives And so these are some future work that you might be interested in We could, for example, look at lower bounds for IO from stronger assumptions Say it's alternative or weaker forms of functional encryption Perhaps even from the learning with errors problem We still don't know whether this implies IO or not And of course we want to look at other applications of the monolithic model With respect to finding lower bounds for other primitives that have this kind of behavior Because this seems like a very useful model So, yeah, thank you


The range of dead birds in like a really pretty, like spiral patterns got pretty emotional. Yeah. Are we live, Matt? We are live, so please no swearing for the first three minutes, please, please, please. Just do it. Have we ever told you to say that, man? I know, please. And no, you haven't. Look at that fucking... Ah! Dude! Look at that fucking... No, dude! Don't stop it! Yeah, exactly. Stop it! You can't tell Marty and Michael what to do. Man, he's... Ah! Ah! No! Ah! Ah! Ah! Look. It's been great. It's been great so far. It's episode number 37 of the Marty and Michael fully actual podcast. We're in Michael's basement discussing politics. Shit, Bert.  It's heavy, isn't it? Oh. What have we done here? Oh, no. Matt stood up. He's concerned. He's speaking out loud. He can't really hear what he's saying. It doesn't... He looked at the camera and now he's walking around to the right side. He's just... Grab him a bit.     He was very upset with that. Now he's sort of leaning forward.  He's just adjusted the PO Box sign. And he's sitting back down. He's like, Oh! I'm not making sure anything's not good. He's, uh... He's satisfied. I think he's satisfied. Anything you can really see, Marty. Actually... He's like deep on his head. He's sitting back down, man. Sorry. I think banging on the desk and we moved it a bit. When I was doing the prank call, you see that? Which we filmed. I'm letting you in on a little secret, alright? We filmed the prank call already. It's at the end of the podcast. And this is what I had in my mind for it, alright? I wanted to do the Tourette's prank call, okay? Or I say, Hey, I have Tourette's in the beginning of the call. And then I started just going nuts. And then I was going to see how they react on the other line. And if they laughed or said something, then I would have gone off at them for making fun of my Tourette's. That was the plan. You'll see what happens. Yeah. Disappointing. This guy is a solid, burly man.  He doesn't have much of a place to play. He doesn't rush people. He's immovable. He's immovable emotionally. He's very... He's a pillar of strength. You could tell like he could definitely...  If he watched how you laugh, you lose. He probably wouldn't laugh when he walked out. Yeah. And he had a stern chat to himself. Oh yeah. He would probably call the cops. He'd be like, Anyway, the weekend just gone. I'm moved into the house.  Buying more furniture.  No, dude. It's never easy. It takes a long time. I just don't look at it. Yeah, you've still got boxes everywhere.  And fucking... We filmed five videos this week. Four. Four videos this week and a sketch of June.  Yeah, we're slowly getting a bit backed up. We did a fun science experiment today. Yeah. Well, that should be... That'll be it now. I don't know. I want to be aged today. Yeah, yeah. But it's... We wanted to see how many layers of cling wrap before it holds, before it works. Yeah, because we were testing how strong it is. Or when it's strong. Yeah. When is cling wrap strong? How much of it do you need? You can break through it. It's weak. So we did a certain amount of layers. It gets up and up and up and in. Because... People always say Matt comes all the time with his lunch in one or two layer of cling wrap. And he tilts it. And the sauce in his meal drips out. And it's cling wrap's not working, I say to Matt. And Matt says, well, I don't know how many layers I need. He said that. Yeah. Well, I don't know how many layers I need. And it's a big... He said sometimes... Thought six, I sat him down and said, Hey, do we make an experiment for you?  It tastes so after this. Okay, hold on. We'll keep it. Hold on. That's what you got. Fun experiment though. We went full knobs. Yeah. We haven't been doing anything fun. No, it's... We haven't been doing anything fun. It's just been a lot of work in our weekends as having it happen. We've been having fun. But we do have Jackson's... I went with my girlfriend's birthday this weekend. And the next weekend we have Jackson's Halloween party. Oh, man. He's gone a while with this. Dude, he's so much... I don't know, we won't say how much he spent, but he spent a lot. We... You might notice the audio's just changed. Matt Brown's just picked up on an audio problem that we were having. All right?   We're very sorry for that. I apologize. I'll put my hand up and take responsibility. I'll put my hand up, man. I'll put my hand up, too.  Look, I'll put two hands up.  I'll put three. I'll put three. I'll put three.  Where's your third hand, Cunt? This Cunt said three.  Three. See how ready his face gets? That's how red my insides get. So yeah, sorry for that. Bear with us. We'll try and make the audio as listenable as possible. So just the beginning and the end will be a bit weird. Anyway, moving on. Diary entries. Diary entries. Di-di-di-di-diary entries. Diary entries. Favorite bit. Well, it's getting... It's getting heavy, isn't it? You okay? Aggressively fanning his fart towards me. Diary entry number 145 from Michael Corey Bookhouse.  But no one else can hear it. Which begs the question, does the voice in my head even make a sound? And if not, how can I hear it? I'll tell you how. Telepathy. Everyone can read their own mind. You are telepathy. And if everyone is telepathy, then we should be able to learn to speak by putting our own voices in the heads of others. That's how aliens talk. And that's how we will talk one day. Anyway, I'm off to buy two packets of cyclone ice creams for dinner. Again, dude. Very good. Spot on. Like, that is gonna happen.  See how passionate he is about these diary entries? It's because I wrote them. They're all in capitals. I like cyclones. I always slip on my hand. How good a cyclone. How weird is that? You can hear your own voice. I never thought of it like that. But it doesn't make a sound. How can you hear something that makes no sound?  Look, right now. I heard my own voice then. I said, I'm burning. I'm burning. I'm burning in my head. And I heard it. Did you hear it? I'm not sure. So we all have the ability to empathize.   Well, that's how aliens talk to abductees when abductees have said their story. And to be honest, that's one way to get away around that. What? He didn't know that. That's how they talk to that. Yeah, that's how they... I heard they speak English. He used to people have said that. Yeah, just in like... And to be honest, that... Telepathy was also a way forward for us because if we can speak to you guys telepathically then you two won't pick up on all our naughties that we say. Maybe we should talk like that for the first three minutes of the podcast. In telepathy. And you guys can just... It's just... You're silent for three minutes. It's scary. Diary entry. Diary entry. Diary entry number 115 from Marty.  I raced home and fanned dad's pliers. I sat in my room and tugged and ribbed at my teeth blacking out occasionally from my pain. But I managed to rip all of my teeth. I went into shock twice and I lost a lot of blood but managed to swallow most of it to keep it in my body. I placed all of my teeth under my pillow. My entire face was swollen and I cried and screamed in pain for the whole night. I managed to fall asleep for an hour and when I woke up I excitedly lifted my pillow.  I think maybe that kid was lying just in case I still slept with all of my teeth under my pillow. It was a pretty good day. Fuck, man. That's why you were never allowed to go back to the dentist as a kid. They spent all of their money for the dentist for you in one go. Well, I didn't go. I just ripped them all out myself. Yeah, how did you grow them back? Well, I had them surgically implanted. Oh, you were a kid. How old? Oh, this would have been maybe 13. Oh, so you had adult teeth? Yeah. Okay, yeah. And I was surgically put back in when I had enough money. It's like what, 18? Yeah, 18. When I left, got out of there. I realized I took my teeth with me and a little satchel. My teeth ran everywhere with me and I never lost one of them.  And here I am today. They're still straight. So good on you.   I died!  We've called ourselves the Northeast, South, Northern, just past Gimpy Road up near the Big Maccas crew. I randomly saw one of my best mates there and he asked me if I still play Fortnite.  He was being all confused and now me whole crew was watching.  I stabbed, stabbed him in places. I knew he'd live though because I am quite loyal. Like I am actually quite loyal. I also had a bit of a fiddle with his misses while she was out cold but he didn't see that. So I'm hoping we can still be best mates once I'm not with me crew anymore.    Yeah! Yeah! Stab!  Yeah! That's very good. Yeah, very, very good.  He loves Fortnite. Julian to a T. Someone made my abbeys hurt. I heard Julian ordered a Fortnite poster for his bedroom. Oh, did he? Did he die? Should we say that?  I don't know if you should put that on there but it's like a door-sized poster. Really? I didn't get it. You and him always fucking... I love Fortnite but man, he's deep. Like he might even have a tattoo somewhere. I think he said like his life goal he wants his character built into the game. Yeah. Like his actual character based on that. Last I heard he was looking for a guy called Knight saying he was going to fight for him. Sorry. Sorry about that, eh? Did you get it? Fortnite. Sorry. Sorry about that one. Sorry. That was a way away. I get that now, yes. Diary entry number 10081 from Matthew Gregory Brown. Stop looking at me like that. It's just what it says, mate. I would have been a wee before this one. It's what it says in the diary. I want to be a marriage. Alright. Bomb break for 30 seconds. Connor, whenever we say this could you just have a still image and just play 30 seconds of some elevator music that's not copyrighted? Could you go to the top of the fridge on the cabinet above and grab the bomb? Of course. Alright guys, we're going to have a quick bomb break starting. So go on, fill your bongs and have a quick hit. Matt Brown's diary entry coming up starting now. We're back. Also the bomb break idea was given to us in a comment on one of the videos. He had a lot of good ideas. We've written some down. We've got new ideas for the next season. Anyway, back to the diary entries, alright? Diary entry number 10091 from Matthew Gregory Brown.  Wait, so. That's what it says, Matt. Stop it. Okay. It's nearly finished. Get it done so I can just... Just be breathing, it says. It was a sticky evening and my father was massaging my chest utters in our lounge room. My body and mind felt great and it felt like I was ready for anything. I knew the battle of my life could be sprung on me at any moment but I had come to terms with it. I was tired of my massage and dismissed my father. As my father stood up, an arrow exploded through our lounge room window and sunk into his shoulder. He laid out an almighty scream and from the ground I swapped my father's name so he fell to the ground just in time.  The arrow narrowly avoided him as he fell to the ground.  I stared into his eyes. Dad, did you all leave yourself? We are under attack. Another five arrows flew through our windows and were all on fire. They stuck into our walls and immediately the fire started spreading to the rest of the house. My skin tripled in thickness and my spine widened to well over a meter. I beckoned for my father to follow me and we started crawling towards the back of the house. Smoke filled the rooms and I grew a second set of testicles under my chin. We reached the back door but as I arrived, we heard Queston on the other side. Kick it down, choir, he said. We were trapped. I was about to stand and fight but looked at my injured father and knew they had a huge advantage.  This gave my father an idea and he tore his plump testicles fresh from my mouth, stood up in the smoke and screamed, run! I stood up and heard the door behind us get kicked down and choir let out an incredibly loud, shrill scream which I had never heard before. The pain in my ears was immense and nearly stopped me in my tracks but I blindly ran after my father through the smoke. He led us to the laundry, pushed the washing machine over to reveal a hatch. He opened the hatch and he dove inside. I grabbed the washing machine and slid it back across the hatch as I lowered myself in. I've been building this secret that you have been training in case we were ever found. Said Dad, I lunged forward and sucked my thick, dry tongue down his throat. Mmm, jizz-fizzed and fumed out of my dickhole.  I said, we ran down the length of the tunnel which led underneath a bush in a park. We closed the hatch behind us and locked it. What now? Said Dad, we head to the mountain, Dad. I grabbed my Dad's ankles and bounded backwards all the way to the mountains. We were now in hiding but I knew we couldn't hide forever.  Man. Dude, it's like a beautiful adventure. That was close. It's getting stressful, man. It's becoming quite the graphic novel, isn't it? Oh my God. Dude, I love it. It's a strange relation to your phone.   They're silent and if you're good with them, it's better than a gun. Imagine this.  You should have heard the sound. It was like that. When they're coming through. Oh, yuck, man. And the screen. When you pulled your dad or you kicked his legs out.  Sorry. But yeah. Anyway. It must have been maybe out of reach. Dude, Queston's impossible noise was like. The screeching. Fuck, that's my pitch. Very, very. Very, very, very. All right. Yeah. Fuck, it sounds like that's sort of building to. Well, you're here with us now. So I guess.  If you've got all the entries, which I feel you do. There is a climax and it's coming. Man, do you reckon like emotional crying? It's full account to us then. It's emotional. It's adventurous. It's a. Yeah. He's floating with us. Yeah. It's always a little bit of horn. Yeah. Respect. Hey, hey, hey. Respect. Brother. Respect, brother. Brother. Also last week's podcast, there was a resource and comments. People wanted to be on this days back. So Matt came in a few hours early and actually found one. Right. And it's pretty cool this one. What are on this day to come back with? Yeah. It's relevant to us. It's relevant. If you don't know. It's relevant to our beginnings. Yeah. It's like a first season podcast. I think this is what we started talking about. It was like our first failed The Hunt.  But it never happened. On this day in 1857, Judge Judy Shindland celebrated her 107th birthday by slaughtering all the lambs in her village. She liked to hang the lambs on trees by their eyelids until the eyelids tore and the lambs fell to the ground. Then she would laugh and laugh as the lambs could no longer blink or close their eyes.  The lambs would run around not being able to sleep and would die of exhaustion. It was also believed Judge Judy is a witch.  So it is her birthday today. Right now. It's her birthday. Today for us. Today not for you guys. Yeah. Well you guys are listening to a Monday.  But right now Matt came in and said you won't believe on this day I found.   What are you? I like her to be honest.  Could you live? I don't know.  I don't know. That's a science experiment. It's happened. People rip their eyelids all the time. I've got an idea. But let's do a video to test how long you can have your eyes open for and we'll tape them open. And we'll staple them open. Can't. Unfortunately Guinness does not keep a recognized world record for the longest time without blinking which is keeping your eyes open. However according to a record setter Michael Thomas from Florida managed to keep his eyes open for an incredible one hour and 60 or sorry one hour and 56 seconds. So he and that's with tape or he just know he can do that. It doesn't say. Yeah. So let's do kept his eyes open. Yeah. It's a long time. Jesus. All right. Time for the next segment which has been renamed to. Oh that's cool. You made like two big bubbles and this is a segment. I'm going to answer your questions guys. So if you want to support the podcast well let me first if you want your question answered all you got to do is comment a question on our YouTube channel podcast the mighty Michael Fully actual YouTube channel and the most likes questions from everyone get answered first. Okay. So comment your question have a scroll suit through see which questions you think are good give them a like first of all. Okay. So you can go ahead and do that now. Also if you don't want to subscribe to the website or do any of those other things or we ask is that you please maybe comment like and subscribe the video.  Right. That's how YouTube's thinking. Right. So you got to like like comment subscribe please just just do it. Right. Trick the YouTube algorithm and we get shown to more people. So that's just how it's come across maybe shares a few shares. Right. That's how it's come across on my desk. That's what I've heard. Right. So please do that now if you can. If you don't want it that's fine. Right. No one's pressuring you to do nothing. Right. There's no pressure involved. No pressure.  We don't mind.  All right. All we ask is a lot of comments help scribe if you can. All right. Only if you can.  Like I reckon his name's Kyle that guy. Trucks. Kyle that's Trucks. He's like a 40 year old. Used to play heaps of NRL. Football. Yeah. And he's like. Third division. Played two games deep two and he never forgot about it. He's a prop. That's good. He's a prop. Fuck. That was good dude. Fuck.  It was good.  Flesh. I said flesh. You see that mate? You see that? You mad? Say flesh. Flesh. Oh. He sounded like he's sly. Sly. Yeah.  You've only stopped us thinking that straight lines. You've only picked the inside ways.  Careful.  Shit. He bent the leg and hit a new one dude.  Try it. See if it works now. Try it. Looks like a man on his knees and I've got his hands tied behind his back. There's his face there. It fully does. Anyway, questions. Sorry about that. Chair literally just broke underneath me.  I like the Kookaburra.  I can't even remember what just happened there.  Probably.  Yeah, I wouldn't do it, but it's just it's an interesting thought. Isn't it?  Very interesting thought. I sort of want to do it. Well, you know what? We can. Not right now. Obviously when we buy new things we can break the old things. And that is why we are at the level we were at science wise. Questions. All right. Top question came from Steven Hart. He's how I think he's won a few top questions. Well done, Steven Hunt. Anyway. Thank you. All right. Question for the podcast. Has Matt ever considered going back to the going to the Olympics for bounding backwards, considering he reaches speeds of 80 kilometers per hour?  It's like, dude, why aren't you like mega famous so you can run this fast? And first of all, it was during Matt's training where he was able to reach speeds of 80 kilometers an hour. You haven't trained for a while. Yeah.  But also you because you did look into it, but it's it's you are not allowed to run backwards in in races. It's not allowed. It's breaking the rules. So so that's why. So that's it's it's he's literally not allowed to run backwards and he cannot run forwards.  A close second place was what is it? Shano McCledge. How many can you tell us how many likes these questions are top comment got 36 second place is 27 because we should keep track of this and have a comment of the year award next season. So I guess I could question of the actually I you know what we could add that into final season. I'm going to write that down and I'll dig through all all the episodes of the season and just find out which top comment was won't be that hard. Take like 10 minutes. I'm sorry about that one comment. Did you know Matt? Here. Yeah. At this house. No, the word here. Yeah. If you're hearing it with your ears. Hmm. You take away the H. What are you left with? Yeah.  Don't ever say that to me again. I think it's pretty cool. All right. I mean, second place's comment was Shayno McCledge. After the hilarious stories of Michael at the nightclubs, is there any chance of getting a weekly rendition of munted Michael? There was also a similar question of asking if we could get more stories of you guys out on the town. Yeah. We literally filmed a website video called we got we hot boxed our new van. We christened it and we spoke of some of our munted stories so that we could get more stories of you guys out on the outside, but we've got a few. We've got a few we can talk about. What else? What were some of the ones we spoke about? There was one that I was like, oh fuck, we forgot to. Should we come live?  Well, let's just go off the cuff. I've got an idea. What was I like? Because I can't remember what you said, but I remember it being weird. Explain to me, because I want to try and remember and really go into the blue pills. From? Yeah. Who? What happened? But yeah, there was one night we got fucking, we got these dark web pills off of someone and he was like, be very careful. He's a very, very strong. And we said, whatever. Yeah. The pills that literally killed one of his friends the night before. Yeah. These same pills, one of them killed someone. Someone OD, right? Not that funny, but what happened to us is hilarious. So we take one. This is the night when Michael's asking for small dumbbells. Do you have that footage, right? What? Of Michael that night. You have some video of him. I've got some footage in the, you know, what means the Christmas tree?  I've got footage of him at the Osborne hotel and he's sitting down, man, Michael's. Oh yeah, find the video. We got to see it. Dude, yeah. It's not entertaining as it sounds, but you can see what is a very good video. You can see the, what you're like and see the, the, yeah. It's just, he's stopped working properly. He's fucking, he can't talk to him. Nothing makes sense anymore. It's just fucking, and then everything's just forgotten anyway. So it's like, why do that? Why do that to ourselves?  Even what we took more than one. We ended up taking like two and a half years. We'll tell you this story abbreviated version. There was one guy we were doing an MD with and he got to that stage where he forgot how many he had. So every 10 minutes he was taking another cap, Michael and I realized and he's a very small guy, a little guy, right. Realized and stopped him. And then he literally woke up the next day. He arrived at midday to our house, woke up the next day at 3pm and thought it was still the same day. He looked. He was a whole. The whole day just went.  He had this huge swollen face from chewing his jaw huge and he woke up and he didn't say anything for a while. It was just sort of like and then we're like, dude, last night crazy. He's like, what are you talking about? And then we had to tell him that what happened? What? And he didn't believe us to begin with.  It was gone.  The 24 hours gone. And that's what MD is.  Yeah. I'm going to have an early onset dementia. Like Alzheimer's. Yeah. Oh, little flash. Flash. Flash back. Yeah. See my. Flash back. My big fear is because I've been around you so many times. I'm usually Michael's hard to talk to, but Marty's very, very good at talking. And so I have these beautiful conversations with him. But the whole time he says he's telling me how much of a struggle is to go to the toilet. And that that fears me so much. Dude. It's only me. I'm the only one I know.  There's been many times where you just can't piss. Yeah. Yeah. But like, I mean, Marty stresses me out.  Oh, it's like, it's like midday now. And I couldn't even stand up straight. I'm hunched over every 10 minutes.  Unclench.  It sucks, man.  And then finally, I remember the euphoria I felt when it started dribbling out of the bills. Fuck. Yes. And it came out and it was all good.  Dude, I've been in like, I've been. Yeah. I've been in showers. That's like the way to piss. You just get in the fetal position and try and relax your whole body. And that's how I've had to piss many times. I've been in like, I've been in like, I've been in like, I've been dying. And then that's how I've had to piss many times. And she's not a way to beat. But yeah, be careful when you have too many. We will get some munted stories gone. Right? Yeah, we'll think of some. But our memories? Fucked on the spot. We will think of the momet Brown stood up. He just. He's heading to, it's been being sang out of head sideways. No happy. He's adjusting and it get nice hands now here Wow, he's not happy this episode. He's slowly using his left hand to rotate.  He's feeling that up a lot today Oh Matt Brown stood back up well, he's he's annoyed he's frustrated He's beckoning to ask us saying what have you done and we aren't sure we don't know what he's talking about now He's adjusting the entire stand. You're feeling it. It does look like the world's on a slam Is that right Matt Brown? Move the table. He's becoming impatient. He's scratching his ears now. Okay, he's stopping He's happy with the table positioning and now he's turning the phone the stand that moves the phone Okay, it's on some sort of bracket and you need to loosen it. That's what he's doing right now Now he's tightening it. Oh, he's done. He can't believe it Pulling the table clothes. He's asked us to pull the table closer. We'll do that now Looking at Matt looking at the phone. He said more Still pulling closer. He hasn't told us. What are you thinking about Matt? He said stop. What are you thinking of? What were you thinking that he's coming around he's coming around to strike at us I will have a feel if he gets close enough. I will have a feel. He's hit my hand away and he's walking back to the chair He's looking back at the phone now still man.  Oh, no look at Matt He's grimacing like he's in pain. Oh, he's looking still looking like this Has he got a hood on yeah a light hood Why did you put that on it's tempting to spit in him right now? He's close to oh, please I'm so dry.  Nope, he hasn't next question How many likes did that one have? 20 It was jazz at 28. Yeah. That was the third one. Maybe they want you to sign up, mate I don't know. It's been a while since anyone comment. Let us know if you want my brown sign up to the website Next one is from This is from Eddie and Damon It's actually more of an advice question if anything, but here it goes He hasn't had a good week so far. He's having a difficult time at school. He's a big fan of you guys he has a difficult time at school and he's being bullied a lot and he says He's wondering if you guys could just give him some advice on how to deal with bullies at school stand up for yourself and Don't worry like high school.   So as hard as it is don't stress about it.  How old is he? He's in high school. He hasn't given me his name, but I'm guessing it's high school So he's at most he's 17 or 18.  You watch us.  Yeah, we're trying it through all the dance, but Damn, baby. That's a lot For Australia, it's life line on 13 11 14 13 11 14 All right, if you're fucking that bad Call someone it's the best thing you can do even if you don't want to talk about it Just start and just think there's so many podcasts that you'd miss you have no idea how good next scene is gonna be Yeah, next season. He's the matter will be on camera.   Oh, yeah Sitting anywhere new part of the contract. We also need to keep going on defense The podcast. Oh, yeah, we will get some more content for that going.  We will make All right next question we're getting held up next question is from Harry Harry a lot a lot a lot Um Will you guys ever start filming yourselves playing tocker for either your website or YouTube so people can watch it? It sounds entertaining Yeah, we do but like, you know when we're hanging out with our mates and I've seen like comments saying Oh, you know, you guys ever gonna film your benders and stuff like that when we hang out We don't really hang out with that many social media people are most of our very close friends Just regular people and so if we're pulling the camera out and like filming everything it's sort of like It's not it's a bit awkward. It's like we don't want to be like, oh, hey every time Hey friends every time we hang out we could be potentially filming it And we do have a few people that come along to that who aren't social media people. Well, most of them Yeah, nearly all of them aren't and so that's what I'm saying most of them aren't so people don't want to like have them Themselves around people doing drugs if they have it like a professional in some sort of career So as much as we would want to sometimes it's hard to film our sessing because most of our friends aren't social media people And sometimes people can't be themselves if you put a camera in exactly it's not easy It's not easy to be this fucking good.  I am right. Oh, I thought you were that's how comfortable.  Yeah, never an Airbnb Yeah, hotels it was pay the clean up fees. We'll pay the clean up fees. I'll do it. All right next question is from Taylor Dow Marty, can I just get a few quick intense? Excellent next question is from dr. Lowkey Boys are hot or cold Milo and could you quickly explain what Milo is for our overseas guests? Milo is a multi-hot chocolate powder that you mix with milk and it turns into like a milkshake thing and cold Yeah, cold although hot Milo. It blends better. I'm cold. I'm a cold Okay, Nesquik or Milo Nesquik off Michael Nesquik is so good. I don't get why people ask quick For sure people have Milo without sugar and it's wrong. What you put sugar.  Wait, you mean it's brown sugar.  That's what Milo is.  Well, well And alcohol was sort of you know It's a very it's an every now and then thing for us now and Yeah, and we're like drugs. Maybe like yeah, we'll do Next season we'll think of maybe even like Yeah, I guess it's hard because it's just the come down sucks But we'll have maybe in season four we'll do a drinking one again Yeah, we'll do a drinking and drug one.  Oh man. It'd be so hard to be on camera like all right And why it is how all right? Yeah, anyway, we'll do it next question is from Ryan Hart Boys how did the special cookies go fellas? I believe Angela was the one who sent some cookies in yeah Yeah, they were very nice.  We're really putting a lot of trust in that there's just you know Her name just had a nice ring to it She seemed friendly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, we got she did message and I saw that how you got yeah, they were very nice Angela Thank you very much. Thank you so much Angela. Next question is from miles Imagine if there were no laws. What would you do first?  It's funny. It's funny. You say that I can't say that For sure It's it's really funny.   What did he do it? No, no, no, I would know of course I would never pull over I have too kind of a heart Yeah, but he was he would just be so serious. He's like first person we see I'm gonna punch him What was he actually gonna do it?  Yeah, there'd be such rushes doing I loved it No, I just rocks and glass. That's all you need. I just rock I'd go look at places. I'm not allowed to go smash windows, man You just smash glass with rocks. It'd be so fun. You'd never get boring. Think about it. Do you reckon I can make that shot? We'd have to we'd have to very quickly gather of a huge collection of people of security to help us Yeah, and then we can as a unit go around and Village and do whatever we want Viking star like the Germans. Yes Oh No, not like the Germans the Germans are a changed people And it is the rest of the world that is still misunderstanding the German core All right, that's Germans are very gentle loving creatures now And you Aussies need to back off You can't you can'ts are convicts Yeah, that's true Next question is great. Um next question is from Marco Marty When you wake up in the morning, do you feel German? What do you feel Australian? That's a great question. Oh, wow No, I definitely feel Australian like to the cork I don't do you know what I mean? I've got a bit of a German flicking around in me mullet But other than that, I'm pretty much Aussie like I've never been back to see family for ages and like my German I forget a lot of the like of my talking and stuff How much percent is do you talk German to your mum to mum depends if there's no other English people around We will speak German, but that's the only person I do that with now I've noticed your mum speaks German even like if you're off to the side a bit Yeah, yeah, if we're having just a one-on-one convoy Usually, um, it's German, but obviously if there's English people around it would be quite rude of us to do that Is it strange for you to have conversations with your mum in English? Is it like seeing a new person? Do you freak out if he's so used to it?   Yeah. Yeah. Doug Lee. Yeah Michael if Marty ever did shave your head, how would you think you would react? Oh Such sadness Yeah, he'd be so sad and disappointed and he wouldn't leave his room for about three months.  It wouldn't you have to wear a wig for pages Yeah, you could change your whole identity All right next question is from Katie Williamson Um This one's been asked before but then she asked a backup question as well Which made it sound like it could be interesting. Um, what dog breed is bozzly?  He was a he never listened But the funniest thing that I ever saw at a dog park once He was like a year old so it's pretty big.   Um next question. It's from Matthew. Um I have a question for marco marco. Why are you so scared of the dentist? Who isn't scared? Yeah, I think we all are actually I have met people Girls like it. It's cool, man. It's cool. I like I've had girlfriends in the past that Generally enjoy the dentist the anesthetic clean, right? The anesthetic doesn't work even the cleans hurt a bit my gums are clean.   Would you ever do a drug double olympics video? Maybe like imagine doing it on mushrooms. Oh It's always a sounds like a good idea, but then when we're on mushrooms.  Oh 100% like but we should if we could fight through that would be very funny content All right, next question is from James captain. Kirk patrick. Um Question for the podcast. Oh, I don't think you guys are gonna be answer this. I can't because I think I've seen all three Um, what film do you like best scarface good fellows or the godfather? I've seen I don't even know. Oh, let's start with number one. Have you guys ever seen scarface? Yes? Okay, have you ever seen good fellows? Is that where you guys say hello to my little friend? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, alpachino Yeah, I've seen that one. All right and good fellows. Yeah, please. I don't know the dude from home alone in it Yes, it does have to do from yeah, deniro's in it too. Yeah Deniro's in all of them. No. Yep. No Um, the godfather today. I've come up. What is day? Mama mama I feel like you're on the right track, but you're not since you guys can't answer that I'll answer it for you. I think good fellows is probably the best out of the three As epic as the godfather is But I'm gonna tell you right now that scarface shits all over good fellas It doesn't I haven't seen all the godfathers So I'm not going to talk about that but scarface Scarface is entertaining and a little bit of action, but it doesn't hold up to good fellows It's one of the best gangster films ever made. I must say I can't remember what happened in good Exactly But there's probably a reason right I can remember what happens in scarface I've seen good fellas probably five times in my life.   No, I have seen it too. He goes to he works He works does he there's a scene where he's like a little hot dog caravan stand Next question is from Justin Bradford Has marco ever gone to the doctor for his toenails or is he afraid they might amputate them? No, there's nothing as needed. He just rips them off and they heal It's it's a it's a tried and tested method Is there is there an issue of ripping him off? Why would you go there? It's already it's it's done It's it's fixed. Is there an issue if we keep ripping him off No, no, no, I don't think so I've been doing it for a long time. I knock her back. No, no. They grow back. There's no nail and then one day There's a little bit of nail. Yeah, he wakes up and there's nail there The next question follows up beautifully for that one. It's from matt dog 99 What's wrong with michael was he dropped on the head as a baby?  You came out a teenager. I've said 13 years.  Uh, just quickly when does a podcast come back from christmas? It's usually around the start of february. Yeah start a feb a couple of weeks in a feb We'll definitely keep yous updated. Um next question from ellen hall Hi guys, I did for the podcast. Oh, sorry. Just cut that one connor. That was a mistake. We've already gone over it Um, and we're back next question is from john roberts Boys your thoughts on squid game haven't watched yet, but we've heard a lot of friends say some good shit about it Maybe it's time we watched it, baby. I haven't seen it. You got to read it. So you won't like it Yeah, just turn them. No, there is an english dub version.  You got to do the korean Yeah, is that korean one on netflix or is that the dub one? Both both are on there. Yep. So I have to search for the dub one or you just turn it on Turn the tv on and it knows you turn it on and then you got a lg I've got a new tv shout out to rice for giving me some beautiful discounts jb high-fiving. I think you very much my friend If you really need to walk me to walk you through it, I will but you just look look I've heard the brunt of it. Just turn the tv on. Yeah, you'll be out I All right concentrate the next question is a tough one. Wait, let's not we're not leaving this Yes, wait give it a go. We've been here for three hours. No, let me just do three more It's nice have one turn No It's so nice Oh, all right We'll google it You didn't you didn't put your heart.   He's looking at me People can't see that. Sorry. Next question is from josh. Keal. Keal. Keal Continue Oh, where you go? Oh, I got excited. Yeah, I thought he was going for a squirty Next question is from josh. Would you oh, this is can you just concentrate for this because this is a lot to take in All right. All right ready Would you rather Fight a chicken every time you get in a car Or fight one orangutan per year, but you get a sword. No way. I just fight the chicken and like it's so easy Yeah, just flies every time you get in the car and twist it done Every time you get in the car.    Oh, okay. Well, there you go I'll just grab it Grab open the open the windows and it flies grab it and put it on the mom to fight an orangutan It would be to death and that's fuck.   That's it. You're dead. I feel confident with that chicken Well, I'll grab it put it in a bag and then get on We'll see if we can get that organized, right? Oh man in Thailand.  Oh, wow. I'm so confident Matt does have a lot of skills. He's like Jason Bourne.  What exactly 100% he's taking our balls. Can't Okay Next question from dr. Quiet Um, will you ever do a par challenge punishment video where Michael versus julian? um They said not fortnight because julian is too good at it But Michael versus julian in some type of video gaming Where a punishment goes to the loser Um follow up.  Well, it's just because he the way he presents himself as such a non. No, that's why she also adds Why is he so embarrassed about being a nerd when he has literally given a grown bald man a lap dance while in drag That is on the website.  So Next question is from hunter hot Cut that corner Let's sacrifice him for a laugh for many Let's leave that in Leave it in Sorry, hunter. Um Oh Next question is from billy instance Uh, can a human be be a b or simply bb could one fly a fly or fly more fly? I think we've been through this right We you can use b as examples to be more b because b's in b's but Just generally everyone can be more b It's the start of everything because human beings. We said it last time human b means So Before was that fly in flying? It's It came out of b flies a row flies the main part flies can be b. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, they both fly next question is from air force one. Um This is good Um, can you guys try summoning the devil for a video or maybe some demons?  He won't stay by my side through.    He's yeah, he's blowing up. He's massive now He's like four million subscribers in a year or something. His stories are that good anyway.  He still works Dude that was a gift Still works John. Oh, we're sorry mate. I'll glue it. It's fixable. Yeah, it's just a bit of super glue Which we've got lying around every which way and where why did you do that? What's wrong with you? Why did you do that? I don't know. I was trying to like put an exclamation point Yeah, it's like making a point. Okay. I'm cool with it. All right next question is from lachlan hardy um Question is for matt How can one be brown? Can you be brown by browning? Um being brown and yet you're born brown You couldn't marry into brown, but you're mostly born brown. Oh, which is being being So Interesting conundrum. It's b starts. They both have bees. What b is at the beginning And b is the whole word be beginning. See what see what I mean beginning can't have beginning without b Yeah, and that should be on a toaster. You said be on a toaster to be Next question is from Matthew Knowles Question for both the boys. Um, what is it like being around a famous person sports person? Do you ever get nervous at all? So obviously you're around a fair few sports people for your Which dangerous sport in the world? Oh, it depends. Well, there were sometimes Yeah, sometimes we get a bit nervous because like we we're not used to performing in front of others But um, and you know, we'd have to talk and present and shit, but um, yeah, it's fine. I was there for, um, uh, The fey anger He was so easy. He made it so easy. Even I was I thought I'd be really nervous when he was so nice He did the most damage. Yeah, we kissed Yeah, broken rib. Thanks, mate All right. Next question is from gi freeman one Um, would you rather the backstreet boys or boys to men have their way with you? Part two to the question Would you before they would you prefer they did this in silence?  I'll give him a message. All right, sounds good.    Swear words illegal now.   We may have put that in motion then so great great question. No, they've replied. Oh I'm so I'm so happy hunter I'm gonna redeem myself for my cut question before because I didn't realize you asked two questions And the other one is very good Next question is from hunter height Um, scientifically, which would win in a death match a wombat or michael Hmm michael's current state. I think he wins michael Yeah, even a year ago. I'd kick it as hard. No, they are heavy man. You wouldn't be able to kick you off You'd have to get down on all fours and use your hands, man Really very fast too though. You kick it in the head. It's like kicking a bowling. It's like a jiu-jitsu match Yeah, if you have silk boots to the jaw, but still they They catch legs compact and very I've seen them. I love skulls. I think I would be really hard to do it We'd have to see if we go to tazzy. We'll have to go to see them Yeah, look, well, there's only one way to look. I'll try and I'll try and organize it. I'm not fighting a wombat Because just you know, you lose you might not have a choice. They have that's where jiu-jitsu comes from He's wombat. They're so beautiful. It's like bozzly. It's what a wombat is to me I suppose he's out here now after I was screaming his name He thinks he's in trouble.   I do not understand Like if you think about it imagine you had to be in what half a city the whole time Yeah, well, the wall had just come down. It was very volatile there. So We were just like bro, let's get out of here dad said to mom and me.    He's just a different personality. He's scared that he'll like it next question And the final question is from Tyson Williams. You are the last one of the day Michael Michael um Do your neighbors ever question the screaming and shit? I don't know All right, well, they haven't said anything that that one neighbor is always very friendly and polite and they all are They've all have been very nice so far. So no, I think I think we're good It's like there's a bit more room here So our fucked up and they knew who a couple of them knew who we were When Michael moved in so they knew what to expect. Sorry about the van for our neighbors.  All right. Now guys, usually we have far more segments than this But we just got the p.r. Boxing then the prank haul. Um, what other segments do we usually do? We just have german segment explanation segment. I've thrown a bit of both in the questions Okay, well, yeah, well there you go.   It's not bad. Anyway, the next segment has been renamed to The p.o. Unboxed Segment And there's a segment where we open the things that you send to our p.o. Box live on the podcast And someone suggested that we should get p.o. Box gloves I love that suggestion Can someone send us some gloves because it's scary opening this shit.  We still have that bag.  So some gloves would be lovely. Oh, it's the foot skin That's the foot skin. What's wrong with us? There's something that you don't hear. We should start building a person Yeah, that's a good idea. Thank you All right, this is the actual mascot. All right.  I've watched like 15 of your podcasts.  I was I had this high respect for him all of a sudden He said the letter basically says the same thing So we'll leave that on and he's got a printed picture of me striking marco in the skull with the baseball bat That's nice Picture of us under some sort of drugs. That's very nice And here up before we um Became the best man in brismund slotted a goal at the afl grand final to help the rich man tigers win Guess he doesn't get my signature Exactly Yeah, holy shit. Do you want matthew brown?  Don't we need that?  They're on paper If you sign them, I will get them online and you can email to them. There you go Matt's got a scanner a scanner. I want to say a scanner kin What's his name? jaw jaw Can you Hurry um Oh, what can do can you message the fully actual podcast say you're the guy that wanted the pictures signed And give me and I'll talk to you and get your email and I will email you the signed pictures for you to print out Is that That'll be so much easier.   Thanks, man I'll do the autograph mate. It's all good So just write our names harry And that's our autograph is what I'm trying to say All right next box.  Oh, I'm really nervous for Yeah, okay, this it's a dr. Martin's box. It's a dr. Martin's box, which is cool. Are there doc martins in there though? I'm so scared tape here from hold the hold the lid. So if you untape it it doesn't shoot out I'm just gonna point this towards you michael because I don't want to open it towards me. I understand Oh We have ourselves I don't know if I can hold this up. Hopefully it's hard to do though.  So thank you and um, no, oh Was that you? There's a massive beetle in there. Oh my god scuttling around I'm scared to inhale a like Other shirts Manchester revival I read Where winchester revival. Oh, is this his band? It is them. Oh, I think I saw a dm I think I saw a dm from them I think I saw a dm from them saying We love you. Shit. We're sending you some shirts and then I reply. So that's where that name is for me Thank you very much and at winchester revival winchester Revival Winchester revival on instagram give them a listen.   We already missed the smell. We also threw in some of our merch for you Listen to our latest EP called the way we used to rock. It's good like fully actual good Can't tell matthew gregory brown to lay off the hemorrhoids warm comregards winchester revival Thanks guys. Yeah, there you go.  Maybe we go watch him one night. We'll take it to back Yeah, let us give you unite it DM us when you're in brissey boys and we'll see if we can come to a show All right old school rockers, you don't see him anymore Yeah, miss bands. Where are bands now?     There's not that many of them we can deal with this So here we go Many doesn't matter if they hurt their feelings. It's just a joke.  It's just it's for laughs. I'm sorry I'll be in my room Hey, mate, I'm just wondering do you guys do um, uh pick up orders? Yeah, okay, great Oh, sorry, man Yeah, exactly like sorry just before we Continue I've got I actually have to rest so if you hear like we can take some stuff. That's just worries I have to rest so if you if you hear we can take some stuff. That's just what what what it is. Um, okay, so can we start? I've I've seen the menu before so I sort of rough idea. Um, but yeah Oh Yeah, right. Oh, cool. I didn't know that Was that sorry, uh, let's go 200 grand shalom, please I'm just medium rare for them I'll go fries on the side, please So Still do the peppercorn sauce Yeah, mate.  Yeah, okay, great.   Do you guys have any? Right, right Um, I'll just get two of the Caesar salads, please Yes, please with the chicken Yeah, mate, um, I'll just get a few drinks as well.  All right, well, just I'll just get a bottle of the coat there, please Can you sweep that over back to me? Okay, great, and then I'll just get one more steak if I could. Um, what other types is this you've got a rib eye The romp then the romps are pretty big aren't they? Look man, I'm not just cooling back if that's wrong. I'm just having a bit of trouble I'm not just having to cool you back if that's it. No worries. So just put on hold. Sorry.  Yeah I wonder if he was tempted to laugh. That's what I was Picturing the baby fighting back the laughter. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I reckon it wasn't such a stern father Then probably but like imagine if we got the same chick from last week It's a little better than last week's good. Oh, dude.   There's no I don't And that wasn't that bad you get to hear some weird abuse and some wax cream I should have gone more. I should have just done more.    Don't forget if to like and subscribe Don't forget to So you can you can scroll down and leave a comment if you want Hello, I don't know if you like the video and subscribe if you like it Things are growing quickly here. We're very happy. We aren't monetized ever, but it's okay Because we just want more people to watch it And we just love it when you do that. Oh my god. Yes, it's good times man We have 24k subscribers now on that round on the youtube spot of five years going up. It's just it's a great time to invest Oh, imagine if Spotify invested in us just off that Dude, he said they have the fair main films boys are Spotify original. Who else did they give one to? Someone else. What's a Spotify original?  Yeah, can I see that all the time pop up on Spotify? Yeah, maybe maybe one day I don't think so not for us Not for us. We have to do it all on our own because of the things that you say We have to do everything on our own because Michael can't hold his tongue for three minutes from beginning Yeah, you swear too much He's out in a lot of mate. We blow that mate. Come on, mate.  Come on Everyone see straight food But having said that we'll see you guys later. Okay, we're the best We're the best with the best with the best with the best with the best with the best with the best with the best Fuck me. You can't that was good Bring a towel off Sorry, there are no strings on me.


Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I am your host Melinda Moulton and today I have the rock star, Jeff Salisbury with me. Jeff, how you doing? I'm well, thank you. It's been a weird couple of three years, but I'm doing fine, thanks. Well, you look great. Well, it's all those preservatives I've been eating. Well, there you go, well, you look terrific and I really appreciate you being on my show. I'm excited to share with my viewers your life and your career. So let me tell my viewers a little bit about you. Jeff Salisbury, teach drum set at the University of Vermont and was the vice president of the Vermont chapter of the Percussive Art Society. He served as an artistic advisor for the Discover Jazz Festival. Jeff has played for the Albert King Blues Band and Cold Blood in the late 1960s and he has performed with Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley and many other artists in the R&B and Jazz. He performed with James Harvey, Pure Pressure and the Scalar Gripote Sextet. He has studied with George Marsh, Bob Moses and Pete Magadini and is a drum workshop drum set artist. Jeff has appeared in modern drummer and downbeat magazines. His articles have been published in Percussive Notes, Percussion News and Drum Instructors Only. And you've written a book. We're gonna talk about that. So did I cover everything? Was that fair? Oh yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of stuff in between all that, but of course, but I started out in Columbus, Ohio where I was born and grew up mainly in Indianapolis, Indiana. But just as I turned 15, my dad got a job in San Antonio, Texas. And so we moved from Indianapolis to San Antonio, which was a blessing. It was very good for me because I was spinning my wheels at the age of 14 and not knowing anything to do except vandalize and shoplift and like those sort of middle school activities. So moving to San Antonio was excellent. My brother and I were walking along our street not knowing anyone and heard live music coming from a house. He sort of camped out in the yard and the people came out and invited us to come in. And it turned out one of our neighbors was having this jam session. And so I got my first opportunity to play a drum set there. And through that, I met two other young guys, teenagers and we started our first band in San Antonio. And we played Benefit for the Muscular Dystrophy Association and played at the Tuberculosis Hospital on the back of a flatbed truck where I first saw blue masks then back in 1964. But the pivotal part that happened, Kenny Edwards, the guitar player called me up one day and said, how would you like to help set up some equipment for this band that's coming to the team fair? And this is June of 1964. I said, well, what band is it? Said some band from England called Rolling Stones. So we got some equipment from Caldwell Music. We took it out to the Joe Freeman Coliseum, the livestock exhibition hall, set up the equipment for the Rolling Stones. And they came in and we saw them. We saw their sound check. And in between the sound check and their concert, Bill Wyman was just sitting on the stoop. There were very few people there. It was poorly promoted and poorly attended. But Bill Wyman was just sitting out on a step and we approached him and told him we had a little band and invited us back into the dressing room, which was in the livestock hall.  And so Bobby V and Diane Rene and the Rolling Stones were all in the dressing room.  And then we watched their concert and I thought, these guys are doing this. I can do this. This is what I wanna do. And so I've been doing it ever since and as long as they're still rolling, I guess I can as well. And that was a true sort of light bulb moment of a moment of inspiration. And later on the next year, I saw James Brown, 1965 was totally rearranged my mind. And shortly thereafter, I saw the Dave Brubeck quartet and all these shows had a profound influence on me and my direction. Played in high school concert bands and the last high school I went to had a stage band and I played with them and it was my first experience playing any big band jazz at all. And then I attended the University of Texas although I used that term attended very lightly and I discovered pot and girls and that was a lethal combination for the academic progress. And so I was on scholastic probation and some guys, different guys from another high school band called me up and said, hey Jeff, we're going to Hollywood to start a band you wanna come. And it was perfect timing after I had failed out of the University of Texas for a semester. So we went to Los Angeles, we found an apartment in Hollywood who was managed by a guy who did some band management with a group called the Brain Train which became the clear light and eventually got a contract with a lecture but that's sort of incidental. We got a singer and a bass player and a manager and the manager got us a job at Gazarians on the Sunset Strip. So we played there six nights a week and it was just launching us. One time this guy came in, he was listening to us. He called me over at a break and said, you should be playing with better musicians. Only years later when I was reading his obituary that I discovered that that was Warren Zevon. And so I took his advice. I got with a band that was, the lead singer was Lynn Carey who was the daughter of McDonald Carey who's famous actor back in the 40s and was the voice of the days of our lives. That was, she had some management and she got us a job on a blues festival at Santa Monica Civic Auditorium with George Smith and his Southside Blues Band, Lowell Folsom and Pee Wee Creighton and Albert King. And so this, the band that I was playing with was called CK Strong and we opened up and then Albert King's manager came in to our dressing room and said to me, Mr. King wants to talk to you. So I went in there and he offered me a job with his band. And shortly thereafter, I went on the road for eight and a half months with him. And that was really my music school. That was my learning experience, my sociological realization and my historical perspective on the United States and the Southern United States. We played a lot of the psychedelic circuit, the Fillmore East, Fillmore West, Carnegie Hall, the Electric Theater in Chicago, the Electric Factory in Philadelphia, the Grandie Ballroom in Detroit, the Rockpile in Toronto. We played some festivals. We opened it up for Jim Morrison and the Doors in Phoenix the night that he got arrested. But we were out past that. He did that after we went on. So that was a curious show. And then the first time I ever went to New York City was when we opened up for Tim Buckley and the Jeff Beck group at the Fillmore East. And that was October of 68. So we did two nights there. And I was astounded by Jeff Beck's group, which Rod Stewart, Nicky Hopkins, Ron Wood and Mick Waller, a great band, the band that was on his first album. And I was blown away by those guys. They were fantastic. May he rest in peace. I realized that there are only three of us who are in that show who are still alive. That's Rod Stewart, Ron Wood and myself. So, but other than playing in the psychedelic circuit, we toured the South and what's referred to as the Chitlin Circuit and played Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, and I got to see what people, the conditions that African American people had to endure. And I was the only Caucasian member of the band at the time. So that was a curious experience driving through little towns in Mississippi at two in the morning where I pulled my watch cap over my head and slumped down in the seat. They didn't want Sheriff John Brown to stop us and frisk us or whatever or shoot us. You know, possible. So that was a very interesting learning experience for me. And the discrimination of people of color being able to play in different venues, you must have experienced that. We played primarily black venues down South. And yeah, I was generally the only one there who was, you know, I don't know what would have happened if law enforcement pulled us over, but I don't like to think about that. But that was a great learning experience for me and that Larry Davis and Sun Seals and got a chance to play with them. Larry Davis is the person who wrote Texas Flood. Stevie Ray Vaughan had a big hit from that. Sun Seals of course went to Chicago from Arkansas and became a famous blues person in Chicago. And met David Porter, a great songwriter for Stax Bold. We stayed in the Lorraine Motel, which was infamous of course. I stayed in the room adjacent to the room that Martin Luther King was staying in when he was assassinated. And yeah, it was quite a time. And this was all when you were just a teenager. I was 20, yeah. Well, just, you know, that's a pretty remarkable history over a seven year period. Right, I was lucky. I mean, I was fortunate to be born at the time I was and to be able to have access to that. Absolutely. What an extraordinary, what an extraordinary tale of just a few years in your life as a drummer. That's your musical gift, right? Yeah, I, talk about that. Well, as I say, I started on drum set when I was 15 at those jam sessions across the road from us. But I had started banging on a drum. It was my brother had one that he lost interest in back in Indianapolis. So I played in the elementary school band and orchestra. And then in the first, high schools were four years in Indiana and three years in San Antonio. So it was easy transition for me. But, yeah, I was in music programs where the bandwriters sort of ignore the percussion section until they get violent with each other. They're always asking you to hold it down while they're working with the clarinets or that sort of thing. But I don't remember receiving much instruction that way until I got to Texas. Well, they're the rebel rousers, wouldn't you say? Yeah, yeah, I would say that. But they're also, they're also, they're also what brings the music together. They're the beat, they're the beat, right? We've got it. You got it. So tell us a little bit about who your greatest inspiration was in your life and in your career. I would say that both Albert King and BB King were great inspirations. Chuck Berry, also Max Roach, who I studied at a workshop at Omega Institute for Holistic Studies back in 88, I believe it was, when I went to a workshop there, a two-day workshop called The Drums that Max Roach taught 32 drummers together in a barn at Omega. And that was a life-changing experience. And my teachers, George Marsh and Pete Magadini as well. And Bob Moses is something else, he's an alternative sort of influence. But I'd say Jack Digenet and Alvin Jones, Tony Williams, these fantastic musicians who played drums for jazz groups and had their own groups as well. And I mean, that's musically, that was my influences for sure. So what about your family? What about your parents? When you decided you were gonna go be, I mean, look, parents during the 60s weren't real pleased with where we all were going. And there was a lot of conflict because we were rebelling against their lifestyle and their culture basically. And we changed the world in so many ways in social justice and all the different things that we did in that revolution that we had. And certainly the music scene was very important in that. And that's a question that I am gonna wanna ask you about the music scene today and what's going on in our world and how it is impacting the way that people think because our generation created music that helped people to think about what was going on, whether it was Jesse Cullen Young or Bob Dylan or whomever. So tell me a little bit about your family and your parents and how they reacted when you wanted to be this great musician and you wanted to take your brilliance off on the road. Those are some supportive terms. However, my parents were very supportive of what I wanted to do. My father was a public health veterinarian and my mother was, I hate to call her a housewife. She was really much more than that and she went to work after kids had grown, of course, and worked for various governmental agencies and went back to college and got degrees, et cetera. But they were very supportive of my efforts on our first band. We would have rehearsals at our house and the other parents would come over and they would hang out while we practiced and they were extremely supportive and they always loved music and they just figured the way that I was going was, I mean, they had some worries when I was out in Hollywood, they didn't hear from me, et cetera. And of course, the selective service had a lot to do with my status in their minds. So my father had been a bomber pilot of V-24 pilot in World War II, had been shot down over the North Sea and was rescued by a British Navy and so it was very formative experience in his life. And they were conservative people politically, but they loved music and they wanted me to do what I wanted to do, which perhaps was rare back then, but I mean, they did urge me to break up with my girlfriend at the time who became my first wife, but come back to Texas and go back to school and I said, no, sorry, it's not working for me. So they were concerned, but they were also very supportive. So, I mean, you were making music during the 60s period, the 60s revolution. So I'm gonna ask you that question. Our generation was transformational, only 17% of our generation was part of the hippie movement. So how do you feel about music today in helping to change the world? And how did you see it? When you were making music back then, did you realize that the music you were making was changing the way that people thought about our world and maybe about a war that was not a just war? Talk about that a little bit. Well, when I realized we got to hear Bob Dylan's music and got to hear staple singers and various people who were making political statements through their music, it was something I definitely thought about. I was not in a position to really do much politically, although I was confronted or confronted myself with the selective service system, but that's a whole other story that we don't need to put out. Well, no, I mean, but that's an important story. I mean, because a lot of men your age, we're facing that of having to be drafted. So, and a lot of our friends went into the war and a lot of them didn't come back. So let's move into moving to Vermont because a lot of people of our generation came to Vermont for a lot of reasons, to settle down, to be able to buy some land to Homestead and also to be close to the Canadian border. Talk a little bit about what brought you to Vermont. Well, after playing with Albert, I moved to San Francisco area to San Rafael to play with a band called Cold Blood, which was like a white soul band, Lydia Pence, four piece horn section, organ guitar based drums. And I did a couple of tours with them, but then I was goofing around, I suppose. My first wife got very interested in a place which you may have heard of called Synanon Foundation. And she loved to go in there and play the Synanon game, which was a tech therapy in groups. It was a very curious concept. So one day she came home and I was in between bands and she said, well, I'm moving into Synanon and you can come if you want or you can stay. And I just, we had only been married, geez, less than a year. And she was intent on moving into this place. And so she was a legal secretary at the time. So she could move in and be called what was termed lifestyler, which as a musician, I was automatically assumed to be a heroin addict. And so I was brought in as a dope fiend as they referred to us, but I was just a pot smoking hippie. I wasn't any IV drug user, but so we spent a year and a half in there. And I would say that the best thing that came out of that for me was learning how to verbally defend myself and also having the opportunity to play with some of the great jazz players who were in there for their addictions, Art Pepper and Frank Rehat being among them. I played with a 40 voice gospel choir that was conducted by Matt Beard, who you may remember as Stymie from Little Rascals.  And as soon as you walk out of here, you're going to be falling down a manhole cover. You're never going to make it and blah, blah, blah. So her sister and our brother-in-law came out to California. They had been living in Platsburg, well around Platsburg actually at a place called Highland Community, which is rather infamous now in Paradox, New York. So we moved from Los Angeles to Platsburg, New York, Los Angeles to Platsburg, New York, which was culture shock. They're the only thing there was the Air Force base. I was going, oh my God, why are we here? I was there for about two weeks, took a ferry over to Vermont and saw Burlington and just said, yes, this is where we should be. We should not be- And how old were you? How old were you? Oh, let's see, it was January of 72, so I was 23. Okay. So we moved to Burlington in January of 72 and we had a child in 1974. Her dad got sick in 75. We moved back to LA for a little while. I had temporarily, Jettison, the music business just because of some negative experiences that I had and also because of the Synanon Foundation experience. And so I was studying animal science at UVM and I was milking cows for UVM. And then we went out to California. We came back and I milked cows at Shelburne Farms and worked in agriculture. And then I was downtown Burlington one night and I heard this group, the Larb Duggan Quartet, which was Larb Duggan and Jack Von Baron and Hallie Mitchell and Paul Asbell. And I thought, wow, there's actually some good music around here. Then I was taken down to a club on Lower St. Paul Street. I think it was the Bluetooth, I'm not sure. I heard Kip Meeker in a band called Anvil. And I thought, well, yeah, there's some hope around here. And so anyway, my first wife when I were eventually not getting along that well and I was starting to play out a little bit. And my ex now said to me, well, Jeff, if you're going back in the music business, you're going alone. So I went alone. Because you met your beautiful wife, right? Yes, at some point down the line, that was true. That was like 85 though. So there were a few years in between 77 and 85. But and she was a veterinarian, which sort of follows up with what your father was, you know, kind of your father's career. It's right. And so it's been a long and enduring beautiful marriage. And Michelle Toulouse is one of my favorite people and she's done so much in the in the world of animals. Let's move on to today because we're coming down to the end of this half hour. Jeff, talk to me a little bit about music today and what are you doing today? What is your passion and what are you doing and where can people hear you? Are you still playing? Talk to us about that. Well, one thing I wanted to mention was my teaching at UVM and also at Johnson State prior to and simultaneously with that for a number of years. I had a wonderful group of students who are now a lot of them playing professionally in the area. Dan Ryan and Caleb Brown, Steve Hattica and Todd Javeri, Sean Priest and all sorts of folks. I'm sorry if I don't mention everyone's name, but I think that my primary influence has been teaching. I would never say that I'm responsible for anyone's talent, but I've sort of given them nudges along the way and I'm very proud of the number of students that I've had who have become professional musicians. Now I play with an old buddy of yours, Dennis Wilmot, every Saturday at Red Square. I play with Bob Standard whenever he has jobs, which are usually festive occasions. I have a couple of different versions of my band with several different musicians, Bob Butterfield, Steve Hirsch, Ben Weber, Tom Buckley, Paul Asbell, Terry Yau, Clyde Statz, Chuck Eller. I play with Tom Caswell, Bruce Bann, now Tom is a young guitar player from Britain. And so we've been playing around. We play at Jericho Cafe and Tavern. We play at Twigs up in St. Albans. We played car dealerships around the area. We play special occasions and we're about to do some more recording of stuff. So I practiced, I try to maintain my skills and I'm not really teaching. I would teach here and there, but I love the Burlington area. And as far as the music business and how things are streaming and how people are getting paid, I still make about the same money I made when I was 18 to 20 years old. So if it hadn't been for teaching, I would have had to seek an alternative, perhaps no-king cows, but that's a really lucrative profession. So it's a difficult time for young people. Now, you used to be able to start a band. You used to be able to rent an apartment for 150 bucks. You used to be able to feed yourself for $60 a week. Now, these days, if the pay hasn't changed but the conditions certainly have and everything's expanded to about 10 times the cost that it was when we were young and I really feel bad for people how can you start a band? How can you keep it together unless you're really savvy technologically? All that stuff has passed me by and I don't try to keep up with it, but kids have to promote themselves online and have to have a steady appearance. And with our society's fixation on celebrity, it's tough because if there is a certain person in the group that can be extracted and put into a different situation. Some producer gets ahold of them and gets rid of the rest of their band. That's an old story. And I'm not mentioning any names around here, but it happens. And the misogyny that goes on in the music business is tremendous and ongoing. And yeah, I feel really bad for people who are what age I was. I just lucked out and was able to go on the road and was able to play with these various people. But that stuff, I know that that can really happen with the situation these days. Well, you must be doing mentoring for some of these young people to help them. Well, I love seeing them. One time in the jazz festival, I was walking down the church street with Michelle and I heard about six different bands up and down Church Street. And I said, everyone of the drummers was a former student of mine. So I feel very enriched. So we've come to the end of our show, but I want to talk to you for a second about how people can find you and how can people know where you're playing and how do you have a website that you can share with my viewers? I don't really have a website. I'm on Facebook. And I, well, I don't know, but just... Just to follow you, people can, you know... You can follow Left Eye Jump, which is the band. Left Eye Jump, which is the band, right? Of course, were you at Bob's standards last? Because I was there. I should know whether you were there or not. I was in Arizona at the time in the show at the Jen's Opera House. I played there with Bob in previous years, but no, I wasn't at that one. Well, it was... We missed you, and you would have certainly added to it, but it was an extraordinary event. I heard it was four and a half hours long. I know, and I was like, well, this is the end, you know, I'm walking, but that will never happen. So listen, Jeff Salisbury, what a talent.  They're beautiful, they're profound, they're hopeful, and I think they're inspirational for our young people. So for the time that you have given me here today and my viewers, I honor you. I'm gonna show up at Red Square and hang out and become your groupie, and thanks so much for what you've done for the music scene and for Vermont. Well, thank you, and it's been reciprocal. Vermont has been very good for me, and thank you, Melinda. It has been, you're a beautiful man. And to my viewers, I wanna thank you for joining us today and I will see you soon. Bye-bye.