Hey, how's it going rich? I'm doing great. How are you? Hey, good good. Hey look nice.   Good to talk with you again. Are we live right now or how we're live right now We got almost a hundred people watching Okay, very cool I've got questions from you from like literally all over the world, but before we even go into any of that Do you have anything you want to say or you want to break to the community? Is there anything you want to talk about before we even get into any of that? Yeah, why not, you know, we're going to war right now, so I know it's probably an interesting way to put that but You know, the product is phenomenal I think a lot of people that have followed the company and follow You know what we've done from the beginning You know, you've probably looked around you've seen online. You've received free packs You've you've like felt the sensation and the power of the product you believe in the product And so that's what you know this moment in time is is we've done a phenomenal job I think as a company, you know doing our our diligence listening to consumer feedback paying attention to the best way to position the product You know, I think my my early announcement is that that's you know That's the significant moment as is right now in April of 2021. That's what we're doing. And so yeah Hey, thanks for everyone tuning in rich. You've been with us since You know, you've supported us from the beginning and so I'm happy to be here with you and You know, I'm happy to answer questions Man, we've got so many questions. Okay before I even go into those questions Let's just talk a little bit about the history Because this has been a crazy ride, right? I Want first before we even go through any of the questions. I Want you to talk a little bit about Like you're the founder. Yeah, and we haven't talked because you've been so busy We haven't talked in like it seems like since day one really right and the first interview I ever did with tat was with you and I Think maybe some people don't remember or they don't know or they didn't see the interview that Tat has a crazy backstory. Yeah, can we just start with that? Why you came up with the name because I think not only is this a great success story It's a feel-good story. Yeah. Yeah So you can you tell the viewers that are watching a little bit about why you came up with the name with Tat first and foremost. Yeah, so Yeah, okay, so close very close friend of mine. I grew up with them born and raised in Southern, California his name was Josh Persons and You know, we one of those friends I kept in touch with all the way through college even our wives were very close friends, but We just kept a very close bond he was the guy that in any group brought life to it and love and energy and passion to what he did but he passed away in a motorcycle accident and He was a you know where Tat come for comes from is You know, I was an entrepreneur. He was an entrepreneur He was at a tattoo shop in Huntington Beach, California But he was like a passionate like really renowned tattoo artist. He was with some of the best and he was young He just brought that much passion and enthusiasm to what he did and and so, you know, the name tat is It's very simple. It's sticky.  Definitely. Yeah And, you know You guys couldn't have done a better job Remembering his legacy. I mean tat has been such a success I mean, look at all the people here from all over the world It's like middle of the night in Germany and there's people here from Germany And I want to say thank you to Germany because I'm sure you know this like the people in Germany have been supportive of tat like huge. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's uh, there is there's a quite a following in Germany and I'll tell you guys that we are working on getting the product there and we're very close. Maybe we'll talk a little bit, but Um, yeah, thank you for all the support. I mean at an early stage, you know, I think the There's been quite a few people in Germany that have really kind of shown their support for what we're doing Followed the story all along the way. So thank you. Yeah, and they're very passionate about tat and I get messages from from From Germany like constantly. I got so many that I'm going to ask you today from people from Germany That are so passionate and I didn't realize that it's like middle of the night and they're here You know, you know, it's a Saturday. It's a 5 p.m. Pacific 8 o'clock eastern on a saturday and we got over 100 people watching right now So that proves how passionate people are about tat and this story And I'm always trying to remind people that this is a story. That's only 10 months old Yeah, you know, I think people have unrealistic expectations like I've got a member that is a very big shareholder of tat and He's he's asked me he's like He's in a part of Ohio that tat's not in yet And he's constantly like rich. Why are they not in all of Ohio? How could they not be in all of Ohio? And I'm just like his name is jeff and I'm like jeff like they've only been in this for 10 months like I'm sure they will be everywhere, but you've got to take time like can you speak on that? Like I know that People want tat to be everywhere overnight But can you explain like all the work that goes in to even be where you guys are at? And what it takes to kind of grow in all of these markets and get on all the shelves having enough product to be able to actually manage all the orders like it's not just Like oh, it's oh, yeah, we're gonna go here It's done like well you need to have the product because the biggest mistake Is you don't want people to go to the store and there's not enough tax Yeah, did you agree like it you've got to have enough product to deal the supply and demand It's it's almost like a science. Is that correct? Oh, absolutely on the on the manufacturing side first What I'll do is I'll preface it with this is You know confidence in the listeners is is like like I'm talking to you I'm the one that trademarked, you know, even the term hempettes I'm the one that brought the first hemp cigarette to the market I had that cigarette was sold in over 60,000 stores in the United States of America I was selling products in over 26 countries and and and what I emphasize is that there is no magic button to distribution And when when you know, this question is a great question But I think it also puts a lot of perspective into Ohio Like what was Ohio? Why did we not just start scattering the product everywhere? Which which could also potentially hurt the brand reputation How long did it take us to get the feedback that we've gotten? And I know a lot of the listeners that are all in on tat that are listening to this right now They've scoured the internet and they've seen that 98 99 percent of the feedback on tat so far is positive Absolutely even even through this process. I don't think a lot of people know this and in Ohio We've even separated different groups with different flavored paper Because we're also trying to get the product to To not you know to to be even more desirable if you smoke it in a car You smoke it in your home or you smoke it around your friends that it's an even better product than that of traditional tobacco cigarettes There's a lot of things that we have been testing and trying with the product. And so but yeah, yeah, exactly It's not an overnight thing And then the you know the next point that I would make is like, you know, you asked for like a You know early like hey, what's the thing? I'm coming out I'm saying is that I am so confident in what we've experienced in the consumer feedback that we've gotten from Ohio that And also in the operation to be able to produce enough inventory to support the demand and the supply That's why I'm telling you that we're going to war right now. So our you know, our company we're expanding and We're taking the means necessary to acquire new stores at a much faster speed than we had done previously but But we've done what we've needed to do for this period of time and and I mean that's introducing a new product to the market It's like anybody they want results today, but you know, what happens if you You know, look at look at a company that's franchise And if they're if their initial business is not completely sound from the operation to the sales the marketing The whole message the whole management team everything needs to be aligned before you expand that franchise and so That's why I'm happy that we've done what we've done, but we're definitely Like now is an excellent time. I couldn't be more excited about right now I love that you're saying you're going to war. I I feel like every day in the market is war, right and Tad has been a huge success I mean pre-ipo tat was at 41 cents And today it trades in Canada at three dollars and 12 cents. So on a stock perspective It's been a success Already despite the fact that you guys are literally just starting your sales now. Let's talk about the sales There was a big press release that just came out your first million dollar order. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, that goes back into my background and the people I know and the people I've held relationships with for a long time This is a very close friend of mine We've worked together in the past Um, you know when it comes to distribution and getting the product everywhere, I'll tell everybody that's listening to this The number one thing is relationships Nothing is more important than relationships and so You know, it's we've had, you know, we've had good business back and forth together for years. I've made him money He's made me money mutual win-win relationship and so You know, it's more of that into the future And we're very excited to support him. He's a very very serious wholesaler We're talking about the largest master's distributor in Dallas, Fort Worth Which for any of the listeners that are, uh, you know, internationally based DFW Dallas is central, but it's a powerhouse economy in the United States Um, and this gentleman happens to supply all of the wholesalers He also has one of the largest retail chains in the DFW area. So from Inception to consumer. He controls the supply chain. So we're very very happy to be working with them and uh And yeah, he's a close friend of mine So we're going to support him in every way that we can but you know, we know what it takes to get the product out there And also build demand from consumers So let's talk about the deal with Christina like cannabis. So that is your introduction into Canada Which is really exciting. Obviously I'm in Canada and a lot of our listeners and followers are in Canada and They've been excited about tap getting into Canada Can you give us an update on that and where that is and how soon potentially we could see tat in Canada?  That's a you know, that's a deal That's a little bit more complicated and the reason is is because of the regulations in Canada Um, you know, as a lot of your listeners know, we have a hemp based cigarette That's filled with powerful cannabinoids that help our You know people switching from traditional tobacco cigarettes, you know ease that withdrawal symptom But but the cannabinoids that are present in our product help the, you know, the tobacco cigarette smoker Quit and so There are some regulations and some challenges in Canada that we're working through right now I'm very close with those guys that company Christina Lake like I can't say enough positive things about I've met some of the most competent people I've worked with is with that company and So I meet with them every three days or so we have revolving balls And we are still in the stages of the attorneys working with health canada to get through the import export And and and we're very confident that we will The other thing about canada. I'll let your listeners know is that, you know, when products have, uh, You know cannabinoids like this they're restricted to sell in a distribution outlet of dispensaries But the good news is is that canada is expanding that beyond, uh, you know, where they've had it You know these these hundreds of stores across it's a population of 33 million people 34 million So now they're expanding that into a wider a wider, uh audience And so we're excited to get there And I do think that that it will take us a little bit longer to get that one over the finish line and strictly because health canada is They're serious They mean what they say and we got to go through every single step and procedure that health canada asks us We have to do all of our diligence Now in speaking on that you did this video or There was a photo kind of a cryptic photo and you had a bottle of Alcohol with the tat on it and you had some vape products with tat on it. Is there Any future with tat getting into additional accessories? We'll see we'll see Yeah, we'll see the the listeners are all over it man. They're like they're like studying everything right? They're not these This is their questions What about the FDA approval or um, sorry the disapproval of menthol cigarettes? Is that going to be something that could affect hat? Oh, it's an opportunity. That's not uh, that's not something that affects us That's uh opportunity especially in uh in the united states. No, that's that's that's an opportunity Okay, can you explain that what do you mean an opportunity because a lot of people are worried that because menthol is your top One of your top products you're selling that that could affect you So can you explain why it's an opportunity? Well, yeah, so I think you know here in the united states is important to kind of recognize the difference between you know, the federal regulation and state regulation and what's been proposed versus what is enforced and um You know, we're we look at it as an opportunity To help people that maybe do not have access to a type of cigarette that they are accustomed to smoking But we don't have the same regulation on us And so I think a lot of times when people read this proposed regulation versus enforced regulation whether federal or state They think it may apply to us But we are not a tobacco product And so it's very important to understand where the advantages are for us as well Huge that's huge. Great. That's fantastic We're getting a lot of people asking about a nasdaq listing Obviously getting listed on the senior exchange would bring in institutional investing And just take you guys to a completely new level Is there any updates on something like that that you guys might be potentially working on? Uh, yeah, yeah, I I'm confident that that is going through Uh, I'll just share that with you. I'm not uh, you know, I don't I'm not going to talk about timeline or anything else But I'm all in all the emails I know uh, the correspondence back and forth. And so there you go. It's happening Um, you know, stay patient. Don't don't don't quote me on time. I'm not going to tell you a timeline, but I know that it will happen. It will happen Wow, okay, that's big and Obviously as you grow You're going to need to consistently add more capital. Is there any plans? Short-term or long-term for you guys to do another capital round of fundraising?   Uh, because there's a lot of concern about dilution Because typically when stocks go up like you guys have Companies are always running to raise capital And a lot of times that creates a massive amount of dilution, especially in the canadian markets We've noticed that when companies raise large amounts of money The stock will go down to the to the The capital raise price or even lower Is that something you guys are thinking of is there is there any capital raises in the future? And if so, would you go back to the same source that you did last time? Yeah, well, all right I I'm not going to say that we're interested in raising capital at this given moment We don't need to we've been highly efficient with the capital that we do have great and You know, we've also like maximized the effectiveness of that capital. We haven't overspent We have attorneys involved in every single deal that we do to maximize the deliverables So in that way, we're highly efficient with capital So I don't I don't think that we're at a stage right now where we're in any immediate need of capital But if you, uh, you know, look at the size and scope of penetrating the us Yeah, it's likely that at some point we will raise money And uh, but I also think that that will ultimately bring even more value regardless of dilution That capital will bring even more value to you know, myself all the shareholders everybody i'm involved with And we are highly loyal To um to that group, uh, they've been highly loyal to us We will of course go back to them and talk to them about what we're thinking exactly what our strategy is We'll go through every step of the way when that time comes. I'm not saying that that time is right now, but um They've been very good to us and we're going to continue being very good to them. So, um, you know, when that time comes, we'll see That's great. That's great. I sort of like to hear Okay, so a lot of people are saying that You guys are growing and in order to grow you're going to need to expand So do you guys have any plans to expand? Your facilities outside of the facilities you have in Nevada. That's one of the questions that's being asked. Yeah um, yeah, we are already it sounds like some people listen to the uh You know some other things that it's that yeah, okay. So yes, we are very close. Uh, yeah, it sounds like it's they're good questions These are coming from the internet there, right? These are the communities all over you guys like these guys are on top of it, man Like these guys I have a lot of questions. I literally got flooded Really hundreds of questions like I'm not gonna ask all of them. I'm trying to ask the best ones Yeah, but these are the ones people want to know but and I think these are great questions Yeah, yeah, we're making a significant expansion to our operation Both warehouse and office space. Um, you know something for the listeners Here we are, you know, we're building a lot a lot of our sales and marketing here in the united states and so From our office capacity as well as our warehouse and facility capacity to produce You know the the the base cigarette material that we make for tat um all of that is expanding here and you know particularly here in las vegas nevada and um Yeah, we're actually very close. So we have uh, you know, we're like Right there. I'm very excited about what I can see that. I can see you're excited. Oh, no We're gonna create a culture like we we're gonna bring in the best of the best We already have we have you know, uh a number of new hires that have started that understand that like You know, this is a passion project. This is beyond just a job Like you're joining a group of people that are dedicating their lives to this product And so the people that we have coming on board right now Uh, but also, you know, they're coming on board to get involved in a in an office That's going to represent that like we have an office coming online. That's going to be um We we we hope to have it as a family I'm telling you I mean not to make anybody else jealous out there But like if you could work at tat like it's the coolest job like there is like our our environments great Our people are great. Um, and so Yeah, but but yeah, so it sounds like yeah, we we we have some Engagements out there. We're very close to the lock and end on that so maybe we'll share more news later Yeah, that's great. Hey, listen, I love it. I love it. Um Progress on european blend Do you have any progress on that? Updates. Yeah, that's uh, okay so so in europe we are working with a A a gentleman that is he's going to start working directly with us as a company. He's a very successful gentleman He's um, he's done this with multiple Countries in europe selling deals and basing it off of volume Now when it comes to the product Commonwealth tobacco is different than that of like virginia blends and different blends here that are Here in the united states. We have uh, I think a lot of people know this We have a sweeter palette here. And so tobacco differs from region to region We have uh, you know, we've worked on some things to cater to that of the european market But I also think that there's going to be some news here soon about About which markets in europe are launching in and Yeah, with regards to the product Um, it's the same as of right now. It's the same. I'll tell you that great Our product is phenomenal. The reviews are phenomenal. We're going to keep the same product rolling into europe Uh, but we are working on it. If a lot of your listeners know, you know, the our background and our science advisors and so forth we're working on it, but um It's a complicated process. And so we want to keep the same product that we have that has very good reception And so that's our intention is to launch that I think you'll find some news here soon about who we're launching with and when we're launching Wow, so many things coming. It's so exciting thoughts on your timeline for asian expansion obviously seti was Speaking to the asian community this week So obviously there's something brewing there um Is that something that you guys are working on? Is that something you're thinking about? Is it too soon for that? i'm going to leave that one to setting okay, okay and any New product development or any different flavors people are asking if there's going to be different flavors right now You've got three Are you I I kind of answered saying I think they are going to expand their product line Can you speak a little bit on that? Yeah, but you know we got to keep it in perspective I think if we go back to the beginning of this interview and really understand what I mean about going to war what we've Achieved in Ohio the consumer feedback that we've gotten There's a time to launch new products to existing customers, but then there's a time to only acquire new customers So we're at that phase We're at the phase that everybody wants us to be at which is going to war to acquire new customers The skews that we have are that good But then it becomes a high driver of value once we have 60 000 stores and then we launch a new product into existing channels so um Our r&d department doesn't stop anyways like uh, we've got things that we love personally, but um When that time comes we'll get there, but right now it's all about getting out what we currently have Totally get it and it makes sense. You're gonna get a fault You got to get the new customers and then introduce the new products to all your new customers. Yeah I love it. I love it. You're saying all the right things This is the way I love tac guys like these guys do all the right things They don't make mistakes and you guys slow and steady wins the race, but it's not really slow I keep reminding people this is 10 months 10 month story that Is potentially going to go global. I mean that's a big undertaking You know, how does that work like you can't you can't distribute to the whole world from one location You're going to eventually have to have locations in europe and asia Caribbean south america north america. Is that correct? Of course. Yeah, and how that works is people and relationships And so that's what we're good at. That's what I mean if uh, you know Some of your listeners actually got an inside scoop of what it's like to work with tat I think you'd see that you know, the reason we've been successful is because we're surrounded by the best people um I mean through and through the guys I work with are the best the guys I work with in canada seddy, uh, I mean like seddy's an incredible mind to work with and so, um It's it's really people and that's what it's going to take every step of the way is going to be relationships and people When I tell you about europe, it's another step in that bar It's it's it's it's one thing to say. Hey, we're launching in europe It's another thing to say. Hey, we found a person that has six years of experience and and hemp and cbd regulations the legality of this from nation to nation the european union regulations and You know, it was also sold and expanded country by country throughout europe and made millions of dollars doing it So you have to find the right people build a relationship and then expand from there. And so we're um You know, that's what we're doing now. We're just very far ahead now So I know that you know the the you know results, especially with new accounts. It's happening You know, it's happening right now like we've got a lot of fun things that are coming up that you know Maybe a month from now when we talk it'll be You know, you'll see the results fantastic now we've heard a lot of across mark and They've done incredible things with some other companies Can you give us a little bit of an update on where things are with cross mark and maybe One of the questions is can you give us an update of like expected sales with cross mark from 2021 if possible or estimate? uh Yeah, so okay. Look cross mark is a valuable partner and valuable relationship for us They are very well networked at the highest levels of convenience stores gas stations and massive distribution channels here in the united states We're very very close with them. We meet with them every week. We talk about deliverables But just like any relationship that is one that we continue to pivot and move to try to maximize the value and so We really like the you know, we like the guys at cross mark. We like what we're you know, what we're doing, but um That's that's about as much as I can say about cross mark right now Okay, and there's a lot of questions about a potential buyout or a takeover you guys have some philip morris exec seti obviously ex philip morris execs that are part of your team That have done incredible job We don't want to see a takeover but is Is there anything brewing there? Could there potentially be a takeover? Are you guys even looking at that? Is that on the bag burner? Yeah, not not right now. Um all I can you know confidently say is that you know, they're definitely uh, they're definitely paying attention to us and so we know that you know, we know who's viewing profiles and what's happening and so, um You know, it's flattering but you know, I don't really care about that right now like our job is to um You know bring this brand nationwide You know give it its its legs internationally and so, you know, whenever that time come it comes it comes But uh, you know, we're not really thinking about that right now Good. That's what I want to hear because I don't want even to even think about that either um Is there can you I know you probably can't answer this but these are the questions so Can you do it like somewhat of a sales forecast because we haven't really heard anything about revenue yet We're hearing little numbers here and there but Do you have any idea of like what the numbers look like or what your sales forecasts or maybe sales goals are for this year or next year? No, I actually uh, like I I think that's a really good question I'd like sincerely anybody that's listening to this. I want you to know that like I'm a I'm like an absolutely no bullshit guy And that is a completely valid question Uh, that also is like a real data point that's going to drive your investment as to why you're investing in the tech Why you believe in us or not? So, um, I respect the question I at this moment right now, I'm not going to give a Forecast but understand that like I'm also very much so taken into heart that it's like our responsibility To be able to drive that forecast here soon like you just asked me a question about cross mark And I just told you hey right now in april of 2021. It is time to go to war Um as we are going to war we are assembling the troops. We're going to have 20 vans all over the country market by market Uh with internal oversight um I think providing a forecast here soon is going to be Easier to do I respect the question and I guarantee you like we'll have uh, you know, we'll disclose some numbers in the future About, uh, you know, what our anticipated sales numbers are and the other thing is the last thing that I'll say to that is like a foundation uh for us as a company is to um is to under promise and over deliver and so, um, that's That's why I'm not gonna I'm not going to talk any numbers right now But I know confidently like we will give numbers and we will see those numbers like when that happens, but um You know, we're at this phase right now. We're going to war right now and that'll that'll be very telling Absolutely. Well, I mean we went from No revenue to now there's revenue So obviously it is going in the right direction and when you get a one million dollar deal Your first million dollar deal then clearly it's moving in the right direction And it was one of the things that I said before we before you joined us was this is their first million dollar deal You know, not their last their first So this is a great start and I'm really really proud of the fact that you guys are moving in the right direction And I know the the listeners and the investors in the community Loves what you guys are doing Can you speak a little bit on your relationship with adco? How that is and how that's going and yeah, yeah Adco's been fun or like fundamental in the process of uh, like early consumer feedback Like I can't say enough positive things about the people at adco that have Uh, you know supported us in our inquiry supported us in in in shop lists supported us in market feedback on pricing. We are going through pricing We were getting feedback from stores. We were getting surveys from stores um, you know adco has been a phenomenal early partner for us with regards to what we've been testing in ohio and uh We really like the people over there and we thank them if any of them are listening. Thank you so much You've been uh, you know, we look forward to growing with you and supporting your success And uh, and yeah, thanks. They've been they've been great to work with One of the interesting things I've noticed is that Philip Morris And other big tobacco companies have used the term Beyond nicotine Do you guys not own that term? Yeah, we own that term Hey, so uh, pmi if you're listening Hey, hey, uh, we've also used that term in the market. I mean, that's on a lot of our pos materials Yeah, um So we have uh, we have absolute claim on that term beyond tobacco and beyond nicotine Um, and yeah, we I mean, of course we do look to protect our intellectual property period um, you know, it's been a big part of this journey is uh, you know is protecting this vision and um, but yeah beyond nicotine that's um That's our term So you guys you guys have trademarked that yes So you own beyond nicotine and beyond tobacco? Yes Yeah, because I never heard of to be on tobacco until tat started putting it out there, right? So I was like, well now with some people are starting to put it out there in publications And I'm reading this and people are messaging me. They're like Like are they allowed to do that? I'm like, I don't know. Well joe just answered for you guys um This is a question from our audience from marco Thank you marco for the question is tat planning to sell their beyond tobacco material in batches to big tobacco companies At this time no, okay Um, there was a deal that organogram did with a large tobacco company. Are you familiar with that deal? Uh explain I don't have the specifics in front of me. So I can't really explain it perfectly but essentially They did a deal with a large tobacco company and stock went nuts I didn't I don't know all the specifics of the deal, but a lot of people have been asking me if there would be any Something like that. It wasn't like a takeover. It wasn't an acquisition.  Maybe working with tat as opposed to doing an acquisition like a full acquisition Maybe some type of a joint venture. Is that something you would consider? Yeah, yeah I mean of of of course we would if the opportunity is right and I think most importantly too when it comes to um distribution you can't like underestimate Uh, you know some of the century-long legacy tobacco companies how significant their distribution is and so, uh, you know if the opportunity was right we definitely would consider um But uh, you know, it's not something we're necessarily thinking about at this given moment, but You know, we know that um, we'll see there there are some good people that actually work with those legacy tobacco companies And and some of them actually, you know, believe it or not are innovative. I know they're dinosaurs kind of and uh When it comes to innovation and doing anything new, but uh, you know Some of them are innovative and they do employ some good people and we've talked to some good people So, you know, we'll see maybe some opportunities arise in the future, but right now You know, we're focused on what we got to do Are you guys doing anything right now to attract more institutional investors? I know that seti did the conference so Stuff like that. Is that part of your your focus right now or are you just really focused right now on? opening up markets distribution Advertising and marketing and just the day-to-day Evolution of the company or are you right now? Do you guys have a plan? to bring in institutional investment Yeah, uh, okay. I'll leave I'll leave a lot of that to seti and so Let's let seti answer those questions. You know for me. It's it's just day-to-day execution And it's like I want to win and I've always won so like I'm going to continue winning But that has to do with like the day-to-day grind within the business and so Institutional investors. Let's just seti answer that. Okay. Can you talk a little bit about expansion into new markets? Do you have any markets right now in america that you guys are looking at? Can you speak on that? I know it might not be something you can talk about but Can you kind of hint on or can you kind of give us an idea of your rollout plan? Well, I mean obviously as the you know, the news will show is Texas and that's a market. Obviously. I'm moving from a very close with everything's bigger in texas Everything's bigger in texas. It is a great place. Good people friendly people Um, but you know what after Ohio? Um, we're going to do what's always worked and that is we are going to be strong in our terms and we're going to start It's expanding uh nationwide, you know, we're going to support specific markets for higher sell-through um with marketing but um But you know when it comes to if we get it you have to imagine if we get a phone call from a shop in california And they say hey, I'll pay you your price. Can I get the product and put posters up in my window? Why would we say no to that? Because why we're still still studying our product in Ohio We've gotten the feedback and that's what i'm emphasizing to your listeners We have gotten so much feedback on the product level from the consumers the messaging the marketing Ohio was unbelievably valuable to us now. We're going to war now. You're going to see our store count really start to spike great How about the online sales? Can you give us an update on like how that's going? Are they Are they better than you thought? Are they kind of what you thought? Are they less than what you thought? Is it Is it a huge part of your sales right now? Oh, it's a lot. It's it's a it's a lot more than I thought I mean look at it like uh like when I was uh, you know leading that hemp cigarette brand, uh, which is one of the largest in the country I uh About 0.5 to 1% of my sales came from the online store Uh because cigarettes are one of those things where people want now. They want to buy them now um With that said like there is a large, you know group of people that will still buy them online So i'm very impressed with how well our website's done early. It's it's incredible Like I I've I've never been involved with anything that has had this much success with the website this early and so um But uh, yeah, and uh, you know, I think for the website for us It's not so much as it be to see or direct from us to consumer. We love our consumers We love everybody that's buying products from us, but uh, you know, we're a lot more focused on Uh business to business we need the product to be in every brick and mortar and every every corner So every gas station and convenience store. Um, that's our that's our primary focus And so, um, you know, I think a lot of people list into this you'll see You know kind of the switch from what what we've been doing in ohio with the website And you also understand how much we've been testing and trialing Vers what's about to happen right now? um With is what I mean. We're going to war and it's all about acquiring Uh retailers you have to build demand um But go ahead rich and I'll probably finish with a uh, I think a call to action See how many people are international versus how much of them are domestic I'm sitting here thinking like how long will it take do you you've got so much experience doing this And that's what makes it so great like you guys have you've got experience said he has experience like you have a great team Like a great team like like a powerhouse team that is like not new you know, you've done this before Do you have an idea of how long you think it'll be to get all across america? Like do you have like a goal or is is is is it just like one day at a time? uh you know that's what's interesting so like Like we have the resources to do it much quicker than what i've done in the past You know, I like I had my product in over 60 000 stores covering all 50 states and that took me about You know about four and a half years, but that was without financing and so or experience and so um It's going to be much quicker. You know, I'd say like uh, if you're taking a snapshot right now in april of 2021 Like come back one year from now and really look at like where we're at as a company um But yeah, we're close one sec rich. Yeah, no worries Come here One of the memories i've got my dog panda anyone wants to uh, see this is uh, this is panda. Hey panda Hey um so One of the things that i've talked about a lot is seti has really set a high standard He wants to do a five billion market cap So you guys are right now around a 200 million market cap And when we started talking, I think you guys were like a 40 million market cap So you guys have already You know been a huge success, but to get where seti has set the standard of five billion I think we did the math you'd have to grow by 25 times Do you have a goal or a timeline on how Like how You can attain that. Is it a five-year plan? Is it a 10-year plan? For investors that are thinking long term that you know, are holding the stock be okay How long do I got to hold this for this to go to five billion market cap? Do you have a plan for that? Is there a timeline for that or is it just like no? This is our goal and when it happens it happens um Well, I mean, yeah, of course that that is our goal but We're still at a you know, we're at a very early stage right now. And so um, I would say You know for me even thinking just out loud It's it's it's probably closer to three years. We should be I'm hoping you know two to three billion dollar market cap Wow, but the only way that I think everybody knows this too. It doesn't matter It's this is the number one thing that I said which is going to war and acquiring Uh distribution. We look okay. Look at it like this. We have Like 82 percent reorder rate in every single store that we have launched in in Ohio We close about eight out of ten stores that we walk into So now okay, if we go nationwide and we get into every dick smoke shop and and you know, you know Sherry's aporeum and and circle k and every other independent franchise and so forth It's a numbers game. I've done door-to-door sales. You knock 100 doors and get two yeses I make a thousand dollars on the day What we're doing right now is that exercise but that just started so we have to keep things in perspective We couldn't expand a product before it was ready. We can't expand a message before it's ready So now post Ohio, I mean we have very powerful studies that have been piling up that we know exactly what our message is The uniformity of our brand and how we promote it How we present the product in the store the signage the posters the table tents the menus the The uh, you know the actual packaging the operations the logistics between us producing the bcm Our suppliers and then who we supply it to order fulfillment There are a lot of steps in this process to be able to get the company to a Two billion three billion five billion dollar market cap. We all have that same vision I I I make a promise to every single person listen here. Trust me. Nobody wants that more than me I will make that happen, but it takes time. There is no magic button to get there I've told you I've we've had product. I've had product in over 60 000 stores I know what it takes and we're way we're way better off with way more experience and way more financing and so That's really started Sincerely rich. That's like april of 2021 come and check back to us in a year If you said what are we at 200 million 200 million market cap just over. Oh, yeah. Well, well Yeah, now's a good time Yeah and I I don't want to take too much your time because I know you're getting busy and we've asked a lot of the key questions So why don't we do this? Why don't we end this with this because I think we've touched on pretty much everything Is there anything else that you want to talk to shareholders about? There's a lot of shareholders that are holding the stock that are thinking about investing in the stock Stock's been a huge success. It's come back down from high highs It's kind of in a I think a decent price right now where the next leg up investors can do really well Is there any message you have for investors that are holding the stock thinking about buying the stock Interested and you know, maybe looking at it for the first time any message you have for them uh I Yeah, I'd say this look, um Sign up for the free pack online if you're if you're of legal age or 21 years or older sign up for a free pack Share it with friends and family Tell me that the product isn't the greatest beyond tobacco experience that you've ever had I understand that a lot of people listening to this aren't smokers. You don't know what it's like to be addicted like Terribly addicted to nicotine into a product that's killing you For millions of us across the country. It's a very powerful Addiction and it's something that we are very passionate about quitting I'd say definitely check out the free pack go to try tat.com sign up for a free pack and try the product Get involved see what other people are saying about the product And if you live in the united states and you're really all in with us That means that you're not just like hey, you're here for next week to watch the bump and get out like Uh, we don't I'm gonna tell you I don't really care.  I I'm doing it So, uh, but it's to go out there and talk to the store It takes an army of us that believe in this product. You may believe in making money But if you believe in the product Then go to the store ask them for tat You'll know it happens when you go to your dad's shop and say hey dad Are you carrying this product?  Am I am I losing money? Is somebody else carrying that product go out there and ask your local stores If they're carrying tat and go back and ask them again and ask them again That helps us tremendously to get the product on the store. So that's my call to action Um, I know we have a lot of passionate people that invest in the stock They want it to go everywhere But if if if we could get some support from you, we're all gonna win guys Like we're all gonna win But we need to get the product out there a lot of retailers don't know about it We know about it. They don't so that's our that's what we're doing right now internally, but I'm trying to call everybody Let's all work on it One more question From keo christian trader. He's a heavy investor in this He holds a lot and that's why I want to ask this last question. Will tat in the future have cigarettes with thc? Uh, let's you know, hey look, we're not going to give up on We're going to pay attention to the legal environment And if the opportunity presents itself and it makes sense Uh, we believe in all cannabinoids We there isn't uh, you know, we believe in all of them Have a very powerful um So yes, I mean, you know, if if if the opportunity But let's be patient on that. But yes, we're look at like this Our infrastructure is going to be very well situated For if that opportunity comes and presents itself We may be the most You know advantageous company in the country to take advantage of that And so yeah one more question joe So you've talked about having them go out there How can people work with tat like Let's say we got a hundred countries watching and there's people all over the world that want to work with tat Is there a way they can contact you? And Like literally find a way to work with tat like how does that work? How do they get in contact with you? How do they communicate with you? Let's say someone goes to a store and says, yeah, I want tat How do they get in contact with you to make that deal happen? Yeah, okay right now it is monitored 24 hours a day seven days a week is hello at try tat.com This is a very well managed email address I have emails that go to me from hello at try tat all the time like dependent on how passionate you are What your experience is what you can offer it could be on multiple angles and directions of the business It is being read and then it is being ported to whoever needs to see it And so hello at try tat.com Use that email address You know on the investor side use investors at try tat if it's strictly related to the stock But if it has to do with the business like let Hello at try tat.com use that Joe, this has been great man. Keep up all the great work Love the interview today. Love all the news Super excited for tat. I'm more excited than I've ever been now Like you're speaking my language. You're going to war guys tat's going to war for you So thank you for joining us today. Joe and keep up all the great work the founder of tat lifestyle and wellness guys Joe deegan Keep up all the great work. Joe. Hey, thanks for it's appreciated Hey, and thank you for joining me on your saturday, brother Enjoy the rest of the weekend keep up all the great work and for all you guys that are watching If you're not winning you're not watching risk to be live brought tat to the universe first And we're going to be here every step of the way all the way to a five billion market cap and beyond Thank you guys for watching. Have a great day. Everybody. See you later, Joe


Hello and welcome to the session. In this session we shall discuss how to graph quadratic functions and show intercepts, maxima and minima. First of all we shall discuss about quadratic function. A quadratic function is a function that can be written in the form f of x is equal to a x square plus b x plus c where a cannot be equal to 0 and a b and c are constants. Now here we have to graph quadratic functions and show intercepts, maxima and minima. Now we shall learn how to determine maxima or minima. We know that the vertex is the lowest or highest point depending on direction on the graph of a quadratic function. For maxima or minima first of all we have to find the vertex of the quadratic function f of x is equal to a x square plus b x plus c. We can find the vertex by using method of completing the square and rewriting the function in the form f of x is equal to a into x minus h whole square plus k where the vertex is given by the ordered pair hk. The second method of finding the vertex is using the equation of axis of symmetry which is given by x is equal to minus b upon 2a which is the x coordinate of the vertex. Using this we can find the value of y coordinate of the vertex which is given by f of minus b upon 2a. Now if a is greater than 0 then y coordinate of the vertex is the minimum value of the function and if a is less than 0 then y coordinate of the vertex is the maximum value of the function. Now we are going to discuss about x and y intercepts. To find the y intercept we put x is equal to 0 in the given function that is y intercept is equal to f of 0. To find x intercept we solve the equation a x square plus b x plus c is equal to 0 for x. Now let us discuss an example. Let us consider an example. Here we have to graph the function given by y is equal to x square minus 5x plus 6 showing intercepts and maxima or minima. Now here we are given the function y is equal to x square minus 5x plus 6 on comparing it with standard form of the quadratic function that is f of x is equal to a x square plus b x plus c we get a is equal to 1 b is equal to minus 5 and c is equal to 6. Now we shall find its maxima or minima. Now we know that the vertex is given by the ordered pair minus b upon 2 into a f of minus b upon 2 into a. Now minus b upon 2 a will be equal to minus of minus 5 upon 2 into 1 that will be equal to 5 by 2 and f of minus b upon 2 a will be equal to 5 by 2 whole square minus 5 into 5 by 2 plus 6 that is we have put the value of x as 5 by 2 in this given function on solving this is equal to minus 1 by 4. So f of minus b upon 2 a is equal to minus 1 by 4 so the vertex is given by the ordered pair 5 upon 2 minus 1 by 4 since a is equal to 1 which is greater than 0. So y coordinate of the vertex which is equal to minus 1 by 4 is the minimum value of the function. Now we shall find the x intercept. Here we are given the quadratic function x square minus 5x plus 6 and to find the x intercept we equate this quadratic function to 0. Now this can be written as x square minus 3x minus 2x plus 6 is equal to 0. Now taking x common from first two terms we get x into x minus 3 the whole and now taking minus 2 common from last two terms and we get minus 2 into x minus 3 the whole and this is equal to 0 which implies that x minus 2 the whole into x minus 3 the whole is equal to 0 which further implies that x is equal to 2 and 3 so we say that x intercepts are given by the ordered pairs 2 0 and 3 0. Now we are going to find y intercept to find the y intercept we put x is equal to 0 in the given function that is y is equal to x square minus 5x plus 6 and we get y is equal to 0 square minus 5 into 0 plus 6 which implies that y is equal to 0 minus 5 into 0 is 0 plus 6 which further implies that y is equal to 6 so y intercept is given by the ordered pair 0 6 now let us graph this function now here is the required graph of the function y is equal to x square minus 5x plus 6 the y intercept is given by the ordered pair 0 6 and the x intercepts are given by the ordered pairs 2 0 and 3 0 and here we see that the vertex is given by the ordered pair 5 by 2 minus 1 by 4 and the y coordinate of the vertex that is minus 1 by 4 is the minimum value of the function thus in this session we have discussed how to graph quadratic functions and to show intercepts maxima and minima this completes our session hope you enjoyed this session


So, first and foremost, as I wrote in my book, speak your truth to it with kindness, but chapter nine is when you speak from the heart and it's sincere, you can't say the wrong thing to the right person. Sweetheart is okay if I talk to you. Do you have a minute? I have a need for closeness in our relationship. And it could be simply that we make time for each other to give each other a hug on a regular basis. Is that something we can begin to do as a regular practice? Honey, I have a need for connection. And it would really mean a lot to me if we were on a regular basis, express what we appreciate about each other, but we appreciate about each other so I can feel more connected with you. Is that okay with you?


Welcome to Unit 5 of PRDV301, Introduction to Paralegal Studies. Having looked closely at the legal system, we now turn to the legal process. You'll begin by learning about civil process or litigation and the complexities of seeing a lawsuit through from beginning to end, filing of pleadings, pretrial processes, motions for dismissal, all before a jury walks through the door. But not every case needs to go through litigation, with the considerable expenses of time and money. You'll learn about alternatives to litigation, like negotiation, mediation, and arbitration. We'll steer next into criminal procedure and the range of crimes described by common law, statute, and the Constitution. The legal process is of paramount importance here. We're dealing with the denial of an individual's liberty.  You'll learn about theories of criminal punishment and the classification of crimes, such as felonies and misdemeanors. Last, you'll learn about the paralegal's role in these processes. These complexities demand planning and calendaring, timely filings, and information management. Keeping track of it all is critical. And these skills will be developed in further units. Good luck.


Okay, I think we can probably get started. There's quite a few people on the call and People are joining late can just catch up afterwards So thanks everyone for joining. This is the CNF working group in case you got lost and stumbled into their own conference room We meet weekly Mondays at 1600 UTC And this is our first meeting for this year so before we jump into the Agenda items. Is there anything that anyone wants to add or likes it would like to see before we get started I do see that anonymous wombat is adding chaos experiments That's me. It's Taylor. Okay sure and There's nothing as I if nobody has anything else to add I guess we can Jump right into the agenda then So first on the agenda Is Vuck. I think he's on the call, right? Yes, I'm there. I'm prison. Okay So Your discussion item was about this discussion that you started about CNF candidates for assessment. Would you like to Like kick it off. Do you want me to open it for you? Would you like to share your screen? No, I didn't make much out of it. I Wanted originally to initiate the discussion as we are putting us in in position to make some best practices and then some Some rules for for evaluation of the Cloud native network functions. I told some of the developers of the network functions might candidate their own projects to actually also interact or Not only to define the best practices and the requirements, but also to to do that By having in in sight Couple of I'm not saying like long list of the application, but couple of very concrete ones That we can use as a basis for for aspiring on On these best practices, but really to do the concrete evaluations Of the of the concrete functions as we develop best practices and then it would serve us potentially to fine-tune To choose if some best practice is really Relevant and meaningful and some practices are not in that sense. So just to have a little bit concrete Basis for discussion because I felt that so far we have been fairly on a on a high level and then I thought it might be good to If somebody of the developers would candidate their network functions with a which they Consider maybe very much cloud native or even some that are having some issues with that so that we can run them through The best practices. I wanted to start this discussion in the in the forums, but obviously due to the holiday Seasons there was no much traction on it. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks. So is there Any One who's even there a senior vendor developer that would like to Volunteer one of their CNFs that we can actually have some kind of like world real world assessment about this or no some It also doesn't have to be immediately. You can also say I want to take time and reach out to some people I know See if they'd be interested You know so open question in the round here What do you think about that as as an element of our work here? You know, is there some opinion on that one? Maybe it's right Avenue to to go maybe it's not so I just want to throw it in the round Hello, this is Victor Morales. I just have a question regarding this. So the idea that you have is basically to list or to reference the the CNF from here to the projects or Because what I have seen is like at least in the CNF test best project. There is a couple of examples where we can you know user or Yeah, I think Taylor put it some information there so Anyway, probably I can put the same comments in the discussion to grab it there or But for now, is that what you have in mind like leads to reference those CNF from the repository. I don't know that Repository maybe I'm just looking now. Okay Yeah, that's it. I can I can take a look We'll need a bit Time but yeah, they there could be these What I see on the layer, maybe I just take a review if you can put the link Maybe that's what I meant. I was more on not more but I was in generally looking towards having well-defined And and let's say packaged productized CNF that somebody of the developers when those open source project has and then use it as a as a real life check for the For assessment. So essentially trying to do assessments according to the base practices generate Like there is one that Was sent about the operator view platform view the assessment sheet that's in the in the Google drive Using these these statements these criteria using the best practice criteria and then just checking but I look at this page and We'll review a couple of those and then provide the feedback if These are actually those that I meant would be useful Okay Maybe maybe some of just to add to that maybe some of More challenging functions for example taking 5g core data plane intensive function Or something like that to use to provide the borderline case because these are From the practice appearing as the most problematic or not problematic, but most challenging once to fit into Normal model I think that there's also We would probably want to go over more than one In this like we want to start with one, but there's there's different There's different models. There's different types of common threads that we're going to see here that that we may want to investigate and Check against that particular pattern. So for example You may have one that is very heavy around Around How how a pack of corn may work and and that those have certain assumptions and certain control plane assumptions that are that are made then you may have others that are that are Completely separate, but Don't don't have the same level of requirements on on the control plane that freezes up to To how do we build and manage it without having to bring in all of the And I don't want to use the word legacy but all of the assumptions that you that you would tend to have in in a pack of corn environment and that to see what the differences are like if you're bringing in a Firewall as a CNF then The control plane requirements are very different from something like like a packet core. So We so we should make sure that we over time and go over more over more types of environments to to see not only a Not only how are the same, but we're where do they differ as well while still focusing on on That kubernetes on being that kubernetes native style approach Looker you Were you only interested in open source projects? open source of products that are Also Not only necessarily there could be Also the the commercial ones because I think it's Probably prevailing model for those bigger functions But for that we would need the developers who would be ready and who would know the details of those and then can Answer the the questions can can check whether the patterns that we are defining are Sustainable for that function or Not and That could be a trigger for some discussions Why not and and what holds us from or hold that particular developer vendor from Adhering to these best practices. They were just really looking for How to get to the good discussions on the concrete points As we could start from the open source ones Probably going to be easier So on the open source side and we can probably map a lot of the Applications, but those may Those are likely to end up being one part of a product whenever the CNF is actually Deployed and sold as far as a production CNCNF network function so the list that I put in there that's from either if we're going to like the examples from CNF testbed the The list of examples on the test suite that first one that Bill it up and up where you go look at NSM examples. Those are all the smaller components and stuff For the most part Unless you look at a use case I mean if you if you look at a use case instead of a product then we could probably Take apart the different pieces and go. Oh, here's a single application like the v speed use case you're going to have the AAA and DHCP and a lot of other pieces that you have to have so those are part of it and then you have like the different gateways and those could be If if you thinking about a Kubernetes based deployment then ideally someone could You could have different vendors providing the different If desired you could you could get different pieces of that use case from different places. So you may actually have your Gateway at one end that's from someone and you don't care that it's not from the same vendor because it all works together But that would be going from like a use case and then breaking it down Otherwise, it would be nice to get some CNF Developers that are able to speak to it like you're saying if I Mean if you look saying we need to be able to have access to code more than having people available to answer questions and talk to us about Are we coming up with best practices? They're going to help them as developers whether that's a app developer or platform Developers or ops team Do we have the people that can give feedback on on the best practices that we're discussing? Correct And it's some later stage hopefully then Bring the artifacts in certain reference environment and also be able to to do the test to run the test against that if we Let's say progressed over that compliance Approach on the other side if you're looking What the results what these best practices could be used for and there was a discussion around the PR? Which was around the initial framework Yeah, I think that leads into our next discussion. Yeah, they're potentially but potentially I just wanted to reflect why that Interesting so if you have a good job down here, then many operators will take this list like Today for a security things around Kubernetes you go and take a CIS list and say, okay, this is what I want every Vendor supplier whatever to fulfill and then you put it in your RFQs. So ideally if you did a good job After some time and have a set of best practices many operators will take them and put them in the RFQs when they're choosing the Or RFPs when they're choosing the network functions Cloud native network functions and if you create something that is disqualifying or that is reducing Visibility for many network functions due to reasons that we didn't evaluate on a practical Concrete examples, then we might cause some Some some some challenges or some problems to those so that would be really Interesting to have a dialogue on that and then something We believe is a is a best practice and should be done a certain way Is not supported broadly then to understand why and then see, you know Is that then a best practice or not or is there actually advice how the limitations of the CNS could be Overcome so this is all a sense of Searching for a concrete examples and then concrete dialogue with the developers Yeah, absolutely. I think that kind of so if anybody has any Ideas of who wants to contribute to the discussion or candidate CNS, please feel free to add it to the discussion item Here in the repo and then that kind of leads into our next Item on the agenda is the kind of the initial framework so things once again Robbie for putting this together I know Vuck has you know, there's a couple open Things here, but has everybody had a time to look through this or does anybody feel like they need like more time to look through this Damn from Bell. I'd say a bit more time coming back from holidays Maybe next time Okay So I think we can probably leave it open one more week and try to get it merged by next week Is there anything that anybody wants to discuss? Specifically specifically right now I Comments need to be at this right. I'll have a look at that. I'm trying to make sure I this thing will come in a few days Okay, and Robbie is there anything you'd like to bring up right now about this PR that you created Please approve it I Think I'm hoping this PR will clear this initial framework. So ideally speaking this will be the Framework that we will base our contribution on so I encourage everybody to look at that and once approved I'm hoping to follow The scheme that proposed by this PR so make sure we do our work more efficiently afterwards I'm going to say what I've been saying before which is This limits our scope if we put it the way, you know and literally first time I've read it for apologies But it limits our scope if the first thing we say is It's a question of making sure that CNFs are compliant against best practices because the best practices have to have reasons behind them so there is a Bigger problem to solve before you can start saying CNF should be built this way I think Um, so actually I think if we jump down to The actually it's not here, but the the descriptions it actually Each of the like templates actually does have or does ask you to list the reasons Why each of them should be so so there's goals non-goals like the user stories The why so if you think something else should be included in here well No, I mean, that's fine But normally when I'm writing a document like that, then I'm saying here is my motivation Here is the goal that I'm looking for here is the thing I'm looking to accomplish And then I refer out to why that goal is a laudable one why it's the one that we should be aiming for So where do I refer out to? So just to just to clarify so we actually decoupled the best practices from the actual Document so what that really allows allow anybody to propose a best practice and as long as they can prove that There's enough data to backup why they think this is a best practice It it will go and this is the template that Bill is showing and if you feel there's any more information You would like to see for any best practice before it can be Validated and it's a promoted to be approved as a best practice We're gonna pay a certification on so this is something we can include in the template if you well Well, I'm not really I think I mean if if what we're doing here is best practices. That's perfectly acceptable I'm saying what do we consider authoritative references for For motivations so for instance to give an example If I assume that all my CNFs are going to run on motors, then I want someone to have made a an informed and reasoned choice in That he's documented for with their reasoning somewhere else So when I say well, I tested running on motors like this that and the other Then I've got a reason to be testing for that and a reason for the best practice to be acceptable Bad example, but I'm trying to get to that point I'd like to add one more thing to this is One of my you know one thing that makes me nervous is despite this whole everybody thinks they're agile now The service provider world likes to play at it, but like certain things just don't Conform well to being quote-unquote agile. So what happens? What is going to be our process if a best practice? six months from now Turns out to not be a best practice or this and that like how are we going to prevent like The road that Etsy went down where they wrote a bunch of arbitrary things down at the beginning And then it was like we are never ever ever changing these Especially kind of to Ian's point if we're saying that you should be building to these best practices and one of them is debunked like how do we keep developer trust when we say we need to like Go back on this or we need to modify like you might have to start changing You know x y or z part of your development if you want to keep following quote-unquote best practices So if this is a riction we're going to take I think that we definitely need to make sure we establish a set of principles and say like these are things we tend to look for in general regardless of technologies such as the system should be able to Withstand a a container or pod dying without losing service as a without losing the Significant service or degradation or we think we can come up with other general high-level things But when it comes down to low-level implementation details, we have to be a little bit careful here to give you a really good example Then and not in the not as much in the Container space, but let's say you're talking about like best practices for maintaining a car You may say best practice of maintaining a car is to make sure that you fill it with the right set of gas and Fill it with the right set of oil, but then what does that mean if you're driving a Tesla? It's like you end up with a different set of best practices for for it even though they are they're still fundamentally a car and so we need to be careful that we Don't fall into the same trap and instead we we list what is the principle? We we want to make sure this thing is well maintained or we want to make sure this thing as well Is able to scale or so on but then when we list it when we list the best practice that is is it based upon a High-level principle or is this something that is covering an implementation detail like if you're if your environment is If your CNF is multis and it has these conditions Then these best practices occur and that there's a set of appropriate conditions So that when someone comes along with something they want to install with with a Dan M or they want to or maybe something that Bypasses all of that and and adds it in with NSM Then you know in what context that best practice applies in order to in order to apply it you're getting with something that's a bit concrete and We can circle around and say the in order to achieve This principle these are these are requirements or our requirements it's a too strong of a word But these are best these are some best practices that may exemplify This particular property. It's not the only path. There's other paths that may be That may be appropriate that are not listed But there are things you can use as a as a reference to to get there So if if we're going to head towards that that practice we we may use something like that That could be something we could use for a framework. I Did put in a PR specifically for us adding a section for providing context Just because of what you were describing Frederick my main concern though is if we change Something and we say, you know, it turns out that this doesn't actually Support a principle like we thought it would right My big fear is is it'll be kind of like what we had in v&f's were like The quote-unquote best practices the requirements the standards etc weren't really feasible in the real world And so most developers rolled their eyes and just said I'm going to build what I think works, right? And if we yank the rug out from people a bunch, they're probably not going to take our group very serious Because it'll be impossible to adhere to So I'm just kind of curious like as you know, let's say we adopt Robbie's framework, which is fine with me I don't like Daniel would like to read it one more time, but um, let's say we go down that path I just want to make sure that we leave ourselves out that we have the ability to self-reflect and correct things as this space evolves if You know new technology comes out that maybe even makes us reevaluate a principle I would like us to like have a plan for that in advance versus, you know We get something that's broken later on and we don't have a way to self-correct Yeah, that's a good point. And in terms of something like Etsy, we have an advantage here because the things that we're developing As I don't believe this is a standards body even though we are even though it may end up informing standards bodies And this is an important distinction because when you start looking at what does it mean to be a standard That's where you have entire countries that have explicitly stated That there will not be any change in in this book within in order in order to make it reasonable and the end result Was that you end up with a lot of stuff upfront added to Etsy on the off chance Something might be useful as opposed to actively being useful And as a result a large portion of things that were listed within Etsy were never implemented They were just added in on the off chance that uh, that they may be useful And so we we should be careful in in this that we're we're not falling into the same Into the same trap because we want to list things that are common And one of the things that we could do is put a priority towards things that we see in In development or or practice where if we see if we're not seeing any active Implementation or we're not seeing any active Development but we're something that is aspirational Then we should explicitly state that but if we see something that is That is gaining a lot of traction And we write something that is a best practice surrounding it Then we should explicitly then at that point we we can treat that differently than Then something that has no actual implementation behind it so But yeah, that's that's going to be a challenge It's trying to work out how to how to ensure that you you get that that change and I think that's more of a process More of a process problem So one way you've got two things there. I think one is where do we source our best practices from again? You know what evidence we have that this would make a good best practice Um, and the other is given a best practice. How do we get feedback on it? So that if it turns out that it's counterproductive We remove it from our preference list So it seems to me we need to come back to critical point add a sentence around the process of approving A best practice or change it and just put some criteria around them I'm happy to propose a draft of that as well Okay, Robbie. I'm going to put you in the notes for that then. Thank you It's one B. Otherwise, I would be a rabbi Oh, sorry I don't I don't think from the if you look at the perspective of like cap the kubernetes enhancement proposals or python or Ruby rails where different projects that are have a healthy organic way of adding new things and Modifying new things. It's it's part of the process so if you Are saying that Some things problematic you ideally see it before it fully gets to the point of implementation as as a enhancement So for us that would mean before we endorse it as a best practice But for those that you don't what happens is they have a history on a cap and they go We're refactoring this or they'll have similar to rfcs you'll have a new one that comes out That addresses things that are missing And then you can also deprecate Likewise rfcs where one is completely deprecated and no longer recommend it I don't think from that perspective that we have a problem as long as we don't add additional rules and process That blocks those things ideally Anyone could bring something up and and start talking about an existing best practice and problems We can move that into a discussion Start working through it if we see it as a problem then We can move forward on potentially deprecating a best practice or maybe modifying it and jeffrey you've talked about adding context saying Where it may be a problem In some situations, but perfectly fine in others So that's something that we may Do after the fact you may have a best practice that everyone agreed to looks great And then as we get going either because things change in the world or we just hadn't had someone speak up you find It it doesn't work in some situations and we can always add to the best practice Content so that that's man Man, I don't disagree that certain groups do this better than others Like I said, the big thing though is there could be like Big horse corrections like anybody who's followed ipv6 for a really long time and kubernetes knows that like We all know that the shoe is eventually going to drop and it's going to be awkward like There's disagreement on how ipv6 should be implemented just networking in general, you know It was very web centric at the beginning and then other people wanted to use kubernetes for things and they're like oh now we need things like egress gateways all this stuff right and um you know, I would say that like kubesig and others have done a good job of You know addressing these but um that doesn't mean that like the transitions have been as painless as we would like them And like I said, even if we know that there's good models for us to follow We should pick one of those models and call it out because I've also seen other groups You know just assume that yeah, we'll be fine and then It didn't work out the way they wanted to like technical debt You know mounted up to the point where like maybe we just need to completely start from scratch things like that so Like I said, I just maybe some of this is a little bit of um anxiety based on past experiences, but like You know, I know at some point I have to Look at how we're going to do ipv6 and kubernetes and then we're specifically dual stack and Additionally, um, you know, I've seen other organizations where They didn't have a smooth process to you know, something like ruby on rails or something where it was much much more painful Or they just said it's not worth it We're just not going to change and everybody's going to keep running off the cliff like a limit Yeah, the kubernetes example also has the added constraint that they had some a single major code base to to work around with initial set of use cases in the standard kubernetes workloads that you see and We we're we're going to run into a few problems with that and that we don't have such a such a thing like We can't there's no reference Architecture that we will be able to point to and say this is the one this is the one path Like we're already seeing a A variety of different approaches that that are occurring we each with different set of of different principles and constraints that That are being Deployed and so like we that that's part of the reason I mentioned about the the conditions before as well Like if you're running in this style of environment then what are what are possible? What are possible best practices? But you also need a way to back up as well So as you learn more or the environment changes that we're not stuck with those Uh and there's also there's also issues around what What decisions have been made within a given organization? So even in a standard kubernetes environment when you start looking at things like best practices, you know You pick up something as innocuous as a cni if I choose If back in the day if I chose flannel as my cni versus maybe Open ship cni versus Uh something like You know some of the some of the other cni's that have come along with such as weave That they ended up with significantly different best set of practices even just to maintain it Much less how they've approached the development of their other environment and all of them were Were rational ways to approach it. They just made different decisions based upon their their requirements and and technologies and we If you if you look at the Best practices that came around kubernetes They ended up with three simple rules and those three simple rules were Nodes can talk to other nodes pods can talk to pods Nodes can talk to pods and as long as you met those three conditions then you're Has a cni Along with some of the basic contracts are added like you give your IP back and a couple other minor things Then you were pretty much set and good to go and it was hands off Primarily on how do you actually achieve it? And I think we're we're trying to be much more aggressive here and saying that well We want to state these are the best practices And then we say okay. Well best practices in in relationship to to what and that's why we want to start with What are the what are the principles like we want we want to be horizontally scalable? We want to be robust. We want to be And the question even comes down to why like Ian had a really great point from previous conversations We had that if you delivered a a box and that box had Met all of your requirements for uptime and you could access it through a very common API Do you care whether or not it's It's designed in a very specific way And so so maybe we should even get down to the what are we trying to do? Like we're trying to achieve certain types of SLA we're trying to achieve certain types of of ways to consume it through a Through a crowd-native API And then we can say if you are implementing it this with these constraints Then these are some of the best practices and go tap some of the communities to to go deal with that so we can go tap the The multis and the datum and the nsn communities and say well You're going to give us some examples of things that exemplify best practices and go and Talk about how those how those are approached and also other areas We can also take a look at them from use cases like the requirements of putting together a firewall or a vpm and managing of Kubernetes based firewall or vpm Are going to be much different from that's practice of surrounding. How do you maintain a evolved pack of car on on? your system the the requirements are are fundamentally different down to the point It's like what is the difference between managing an op a database versus managing a A microservice website that they're both valid use cases within Kubernetes, but they're substantially different in their approach that you have to make different Decisions in order to in order to ensure the health of the application that's running on it um, so So there's some things to talk about Wook speaking one comment on The depreciation of the best practices. That's a very valid aspect that we have to take with Very carefully and very seriously especially due to that Past experiences not only with with etsy and vnf, but many other approaches like that Uh, this was one of the reasons that motivates me to bring that first point in As long as we have a concrete functions and concrete pieces of code in the discussion and having a bidirectional Dialogue or Being ready to depreciate the deprecate certain Best practices if in the dialogue we found out. Okay, it's really blocking a meaningful things and it doesn't contribute to I don't know better sla or better uptime and and and so on Then it's up to community to really Focus on deprecating that but we will only find or mostly find that By confronting the rules with a concrete example the problem with etsy Was that there was a lot of writing in a point in time as Was rightfully said and that there was no willingness on consideration But we were just pushing On just pushing but there was a lot of like, okay. This is a framework. Please fit to that and then the the feedback from the developers that Was said here were rolling their eyes this rolling of eyes Didn't end up in the process of Reviewing does that what we do? Or what they do there makes sense and how it has to be Revaluated that's Very important to to Factor in here and another piece That that was mentioned Is like black box thing and I reiterating and I was reiterating in a in a chat There could be a two purposes of that one is completely developer centric and that should go like how to use cloud native patterns and how to Use Kubernetes to the maximum and and Possible extent to make a best function package it in the box and deliver it From the operator side from the side of the of the Actors that are consuming that That's to call build a black box. You can put whatever azix proprietary hardware in it. That would be all all same Uh, the other approach or other way to do that Is really saying, okay, do we as operators i'm talking from the operator angle what want to establish a generic cloud layer for those functions and Onboard the network functions on that cloud layer And give the functionalities and the possibilities to those functions to be able to to run As they were supposed to run and I think the The value of doing a cloud native principles is at least for for that perspective Of operator that I have a generic or more or less generic infrastructure that runs in x y set locations And the cns are onboarding on that one and The set of best practices is a contract Is a kind of sort of contract between these kind of infrastructures and cns Just want to uh wanted to reflect on that because for a black box um I think blackpost whatever it is inside. Nobody wants to care Except developers who are making the black box to be the best possible Speak speaking as the supplier to a bunch of very inquisitive customers. I'm not sure that's true, but um Perhaps what we're saying here is rather than the What the document currently says, you know We will define best practices in light of other people other definitions of cloud native We should say we will define best practices That's one avenue of attack, but we've got other things to deal with as well I think we're ruling things out that we should have within our remit What exactly do you mean by that? You can you rephrase it? Well, what specifically are you concerned about that we're leaving out or that you're thinking we're leaving out So, I mean we've the points keep coming up They're right that we don't have a platform definition Because we don't know what a good cnf is You know a well-behaved cnf following a standardized and singular platform definition as an example um, we talk about cloud native as if it has Meaning without context, you know the words mean we know exactly what a cnf cloud native cnf looks like and those principles exist elsewhere and I don't think they do so um, rather than saying We will do the lowest layer of this we will do the the implementation the thing that describes Here is a c here is a cloud native best practice His here is how you demonstrate that it exists in a given cnf. We also say here is Not just the test for the thing we're looking for but here is why that thing is a best practice in the first place Here is our thoughts on why it should be a best practice not necessarily um You know hoping that turns up in another group those the why why something should be a best practice is explicitly part of the proposal process so starting with The discussion board so you're discussing something and The discussion board of course can be other things so we have like the actors and stuff but The when you're someone is bringing up a potential best practice or maybe within a discussion It is ideally part of the conversation Would say here is why we think this is a best practice Yeah, but if if I were writing software In an old-fashioned way and you know, even if we're doing agile this still exists, right? We have requirements design Implementation the implementation meets the design and the design meets the requirements but What we have here is implementation With a bunch of hopefully some requirements thrown in for good measure But that means that you know individual best practices are considered individually not necessarily sourced from the same Set of you know a consistent set of requirements or a consistent idea of design You have to build down to The level what we want to be at here are testable things we can examine So we're not doing this in a vacuum, which it sounds like you're implying that well That's true, but I've asked before what are our where's our design? Where's our requirements coming from? If if we were building all of this from scratch if you just came in and said we're going to build software and Operators just start using it and just you want things to run. Okay. That's all we we're not doing that We're not we're not starting completely from scratch. We're we're building off of Existing applications. So that's related to putting the discussion forward on c&f candidates So that's working from that level backwards We've already listed in the actor and hold on a moment in the if you go look at the actor discussion one of the items that was brought forward was platform Developers or vendors whatever you want to call those wherever they are So those people would be involved architects designing from maybe within the a A add an actual Service provider that may be designing the overall architecture So you're going to have all of those people engaged But it doesn't mean that we have to have all of that done before we even start because we already Know that part of it's going to be based off what's out there So the the bgp speaker are we going to say those are no longer useful immediately? You'd probably argue that those are going to exist for a while or a I'm fine Yes, if you want to design this stuff And you're a little bit short on the on the y of what you're doing bgp speaker as an example, right then Where would I put down the why where do I put that down and I don't mean as as In the same way that I try not to write code and hope everybody understands what the requirements were that drove me to write it I'm saying Where would the abstract requirements go when we get those actors together? Or where does a user story fall short on your why? If you were to capture what you're saying in the user story the user's pain or whatever it is right now for bgp to be explained for the first time in a What is looking to me like a test or a test description? Is my well we're talking about the requirement the driver for a requirement So if you're out there developing any system at all And you go out and you get user stories, right? You say this is a user. This is what they're doing. This is a problem Whatever it is And now you're going to build your requirements based on that user story Where you got the requirements, which could come after the user story You can look at the user story as a requirement either way But what where are you not capturing what you you are talking about? I'm really saying that the user story stands independent of the conclusions you draw from it Yes, that's correct. So you have the why in the user story. Are you saying the conclusion is the why or What are you saying? I'm saying the conclusion stands independent of the user story So if we have a user story, would it not make more sense to keep it separate from The conclusions we draw from it rather than embed it in every single conclusion because The proposals we seem to have here The the things we will be filling out as templates are conclusions recommendations the final the final element of the implementation So fair enough if you were so if the user stories were separate Right, but you referred to the user stories and that's what we say Okay, here's our why you need to have a real world description of something you want And point back to that and then you have the and then you point to it instead of having it in Directly embedded in there that would kind of satisfy what you're talking about Yeah, effectively Having a home for those things Um independent of the the things that we the recommended, you know tests or things to do and tests that satisfy that user story Having the user story stand independent because I think that means that the user story will be more Yeah, fine. It won't have conclusions of its own, but it will be hopefully something that people who don't necessarily care so much about Exactly what we're testing about the cnf. We'll actually be able to read it and make sense of it Yeah, that makes sense and user stories and then maybe even surveys that go with the user story like someone can write up a user story And we can kind of figure out How how many people you know relay or that were user story resonates with them and their business and stuff like that And we can kind of have the the drive behind the user story how much agreement we have with it and then the These other principles we can kind of you know work at it from both angles You have certain principles of cloud native principles so on so forth And we say okay. Well if you're wanting to have this type of architecture and these types of trade-offs that go with this architecture Are they compatible with this user story? No drop them off. You can't implement it or you can whatever And it seems like that You know, this is a you know a cat and you know chicken and egg situation That's it's which is fine But yeah user stories seem to me to capture everything you're talking about Which is fine. I mean if we're coming back to you know Our repository my point would be that they deserve a directory of their own I think And a process of their own as well I like our idea Ian of having A whole set of user stories that people can contribute to and and maybe more than People just being able to find it separately would be people that want to contribute user stories But don't really know it they they're maybe they're Have more experience on the user story writing those and less experience on Helping with build the best practice or discussing the implementations So it helps with that. I don't I wouldn't want to stop people from getting started. That was the whole point with Doing this which ties in with Having the user story embedded But I would say whether if someone if someone well if someone starts a proposal For a best practice They should it's it's required actually before it's going to make it that they need to tie that to the user story Yeah, and that can always be copied out If someone starts with the user story Then great just go to the user story. I'm just saying let's do both and and we can get started Yeah, that's fine If you consider what we have here, we have a git repo and every git repo I've ever worked in you can commit two changes In two files at the same time So if you've got um a best practice you wish to recommend against the user story that no one's ever thought of before You can commit the best practice and the user story in a single change It just isn't in a single file anymore, right? You commit the best practice and the reference to it in the user story, but it gives you Three options there or other than one I can commit a best practice based on a user story that somebody else documented I can commit a user story Even if I don't know what best practices that implies and I'm leaving other people to tell me Or I can commit the whole thing as a as a chunk and people can review it in that light Um Whereas what we have at the moment doesn't seem to leave us with quite those options Yeah, um You know, I think I see what you're saying. Uh, I see what you're saying Um, would you want to come up with like a proposal similar to Like robbies for the usual user stories? um Yeah, I think we can build on rabies patch and we can say, you know, we we take two streams of information This part is our our responsibility is x this part of our responsibility is y and here is the process for both of those things Um, so if we start there and then we want a template for what a user story is including audience and so on Um, which would be the next part of that Okay, perfect. Is there a Would it be all right if we um get this merge from rubbing in place and then do a new pr on top? Um I'm not sure. Um I want to read what rabies written a bit more closely before I say yes to that to be honest. Okay. Well, I'd say Go to everybody that's interested in helping. Please go through the pr And let's try to get it merged We're we're not trying to get something perfect today or this week And and it's sitting there. This goes back to the comments earlier about what do we do if there's a best practice that's Needs to be updated None of this should be thought of as final It should all be thought of if We're doing we're doing what we understand to be best today and we're going to keep updating it every day going on But if there's something in what's currently there in that You think needs updated. Okay But ideally we can keep having smaller prs that get merged sooner Um, so they're available Yeah, I mean, it's certainly in the future. That's obviously the case We're trying to make this so that everybody knows what self-contained change looks like so that makes more sense Right now we're busy defining our outlook on the world. So um While I think I'm all right with what rabies saying I want to read it more properly because I don't want it to be You know, I want to make sure we're getting somewhere in the right direction Uh, plus it's got a few spelling mistakes in that one fixing which is also making me it's making my ocb go off. So Sure. Yeah, so I think it'd be great if we can all take the next week Um to review rabies pr and then we can continue the discussion Then um, so thanks everybody for joining today. I really appreciate the discussion I think you know, I really appreciate your idea on splitting the user story and the Best practice from each other So thanks everyone Thanks bill. Thanks again Cheers. Bye. Thanks. Bye