Starring Helen Hayes in Spin the Silver Dollar on the Cavalcade of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company, maker of better things for better living through chemistry. But first here is Ted Pearson with some timely information on weed killers. Weed pulling and digging is a very hard and back-breaking job, and in the case of poison ivy, well, a dangerous one as well. Now, DuPont has two chemical weed killers which destroy weeds, many kinds of weeds. Carmack's 2-4-D in tablet form destroys weeds and lawns, but doesn't harm the grass. The other DuPont weed killer is Amate. It's quick and sure death to such noxious weeds as poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac. Both are easy and safe to handle. You simply mix them in water and spray until the weeds are thoroughly wet. Carmack's 2-4-D and Amate are two more of the DuPont Company's better things for better living through chemistry. The DuPont Company presents Spin the Silver Dollar, starring Helen Hayes as Sally Lippincott on the Cavalcade of America. Hear that telephone bell? It's ringing for me, Sally Lippincott, or for Bill. Bill's my husband, and we're magazine writers, and all day long the telephone rings, and on the other end there are some inhuman human beings called editors. Hello? Oh, hello, Mr. Harlow. No, Bill isn't here. Yes, I know he said he would be, but he had to see a family lawyer about a trading post in Arizona. The article? Yes, wasn't it wonderful? I think Bill has never been so clever.  What? Oh, I see. Well, that can easily be fixed. Huh? Revamp the lead? Uh-huh. Yeah? What's wrong with the ending? Oh, I get it. And get more specific incidents into the middle portion. Well, I'm glad you liked the title. Goodbye. Sally! Yes, Bill? Sally, I've got some bad news. We've got to go out to Arizona. Oh, no! Well, here's the situation. Since Uncle Jim died, that trading post has been inactive. It's worth a lot of money if it's operating or if it can be sold. Well, you and I have to go out there and run it until we can find a buyer. Why, you and I? Because we're writers. We're not chained to a desk and an office. Now, Bill, I don't think it's fair, and I refuse to go. But we've got to go, Sally. I don't like it any better than you do. Besides, we'll be paid. We'll shiver to death. We'll roast. It's on the desert. And our customers are Indian? Uh-huh. Navajo. I see. Bill, what's the name of this trading post? Wide Ruin. Oh, cozy. Well, Bill, I won't do it. I will not. It's not fair. I will absolutely not. I will absolutely not. We went to Wide Ruins. We spun a silver dollar, and I lost as usual. Wide Ruins. It was well-named. The desert all around was wide, and the trading post was a ruin. Well, how do you like it? Isn't there anything but desert around here? Well, it's kind of pleasant, though.  You go. I don't want to fall through the floor. You'll fall through the floor? There's nothing wrong with this building with a good coat of paint. Can't fix. Nothing? Take a look at the roof. I'm looking. We'll fix that.  The place could use some paint. Bill, we've got company. Company? Where? Oh, hello. Hello. How do you do? We're Mr. and Mrs. Lippincott. We've come to take over the trading post. Hello. Do you live near here? Yes. I expect we'll be doing business together. Yes. Well, if you'll excuse us. One minute, Bill. I think this man wants to say something to us. Didn't you want to say something, Mr. Yes. Well, what is it? Me, Joe Toddy. Welcome to White Ruins. Oh, lovely. Thank you very much indeed. Yes, thank you. We're glad to be here. Me, come do business with you. Sally, our first customer. No, me, come fix roof. You, my customer. That was our introduction to life among the Navajos. They're a curiously calm people. And since we had come fresh from the jangle of telephone calls and the urgency of deadlines in the city, we found calmness to be most unnerving. May I pay next week? That's all right. What's your name? Tell me your name so that I can charge this flower to you. Sally, come here. You must never ask a Navajo his name directly. No? I'll answer you. Well, then I'll have to get this man's name from one of his friends. No, no, no. They don't like that either. But I have to keep my books straight. How am I going to find out his name? Like this. Sally, this customer's name is Redberry with a big leaf. You're wrong. My name is Sushi Bege. You see? There you are. Write it down, Sally. We rug, you won't buy. Well, we buy rugs. Let's unroll it and see. Oh, there's lettering on it. You say hello. Hello, but where's the O? No room for O. Customs of the Navajos. And the most important thing we learned about them is that they derive their whole nature, their philosophy, even their complexion from the desert around them. It's woven into their rugs and it runs through all their speech. I guess Little Jimmy was the one who finally made me realize this. Little Jimmy first came to the trading post with Joe Toddy, his father. Me, come fix woof now. Well, I should think he would, Joe. You've left us without a roof for almost a week. Only in two time. Bill. Yes? Who left these drawings on the front step? Drawings? I don't know, Sally. Those Jimmy's. Jimmy's? Jimmy, my boy. There he is. Where? Oh, there in the doorway.  Oh, he ran away. Yes, he never stayed. And he drew these pictures. They're wonderful. Look, Bill, see those trees. See, those are magnificent. Joe, how old is your boy? Eight. Did he ever try painting? No. Bill, we have a paint set in stock and some paper for watercolor. That's right. Here, Joe, here are some paints and a nice brush and some paper. Will you give these to Jimmy for us? Yes, thank you. I go give him now. Joe, some other time. That was the beginning of our acquaintance with Jimmy. We never heard the sound of his voice. He'd edge sidewise into the store, shyly lay a painting on the counter, and then he would flee. We kept him supplied with paints and paper and he kept us supplied with paintings. Paintings that drew their subjects from the things he saw around him. Horses and deer slender graceful trees and always in the background the vast stretch of desert sand brown and yellow and bronze. But, Bill and I had other things to think about besides Jimmy. Joe Toddy had finally fixed our roof, but now the insects came. Sally, something has got to be done. Yes? Well, we've sent for the insecticide. Yes, and we waited for three weeks. So? So I'm going to make an insecticide of my own. No, you're not. We've got to. We've got a chance to sell wide ruins. Fellow named Grayson called from Tucson just now. He's coming to look the place over tomorrow. Bill, that's wonderful. Sure it is, but he'll never buy the place if he gets eaten alive while he's inspecting it. He's an Easterner, says he wants peace. Well, there's no more peaceful place than... Oh. What's the matter? I never realized until I said it how peaceful wide ruins is. Yeah, it is peaceful, but that's neither here nor there. We've got to get rid of these insects so he gets here. I'm going to make insecticide right now. Now, pour in a little more from that bottle, Sally. How long do you have to stir that mess before it becomes insecticide? If it becomes insecticide. If it becomes insecticide. I don't know, maybe forever. Now, Sally, just hand me that bottle. It was a strange explosion. It went almost directly upward. I got a little burn on my wrist and Bill got a large one on his cheek, but nothing in the room was damaged. You're lucky. Well, yes, except for three things. The explosion literally raised Joe Toddy's new roof. Mr. Grayson saw the roofless trading post the next day and went right back to Tucson. And Joe Toddy refused to repair the roof this time. May no go near trading post. But why not, Joe? Big blow-up. Evil spirits mad at your house. Oh, that's foolish, Joe. May be foolish, but you'll see how foolish when no Indians go to trading post. Indians know anger, evil spirits. Indians know to business with you, but Indians sorry if you starve. You were with a pretty problem that no grocer back home ever had to face. What do you do when you're going rapidly into bankruptcy because your customers think the evil spirits have the evil eye on your store? Bill and I called in the medicine man. Lukachukai, his name was, the wrinkled old man with humorous eyes. Anazazi's angry with you. Anazazi? Anazazi's evil spirits. Oh, what do we do to make them smile again? Take a rug from counter, sped on floor. All right. Right here? That will do. Now here, here a chance. You hold one. Here? You hold one. Thank you. So, now let us kneel on rug. Hey, now. Hoey, it's time for you. Hoey, it's time for you. Hoey, it's time for you. May you be blessed. See you soon, see you soon. See you soon. See you soon. Hoey, it's time for you. Now, let me sprinkle secret corn pollen on your hand.  Now, taste. Yes, taste. Now, throw it high to God. Is that the end of the ceremony? That is end. We rise now. Are the Anazazis gone? Anazazis never go. But they are not angry any longer. I want to thank you very much. And I want to tell you how impressive the ceremony was. The Anazazis no longer trouble you. My people will be pleased to come once more to your store. Thank you. But I would like to know why you call me in, why you ask me to perform this ceremony.  But we believe all gods are the same. Same? Yes, but we are strangers in your country and we do not know how to approach the gods in a Navajo way. And that's why we asked you to help us. You're good people. May you prosper here. Is it permitted to give you a gift? It is permitted, yes, but not a big gift. Well, there's some seaweed candy here on the counter. Here, this candy is made from the flowers that grow under the sea. Bill bought it when he went to California. How you get candy from flowers that grow under the sea? He bought it in California. You don't believe him? I believe you, and I have requests.  You're listening to Spin the Silver Dollar, the story of Bill and Sally Lippincott who took over an Navajo trading post. Tonight's star is Helen Hayes at Sally Lippincott on The Cavalcade of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company, and a number of better things for better living through chemistry. That was our introduction to Navajo ceremonies. We were to take part in many other ceremonies while we were at wide ruins. The most interesting to me at any rate, because I am a woman, was one that I learned about through Jimmy. You see, all this time, Jimmy kept coming to the trading post, and after he had silently handed me another picture, he never stayed longer than one shy second, and he never spoke, not with his tongue, but with his pictures he was eloquent. In beautiful pastels he pictured the desert and the animals in which he seemed most interested. Never a human being, never until one day, the picture that he left was of a young girl before an Indian hogan, lying on a mat with her head toward the east. Underneath he had scrawled, my sister. I was interested, so I went to see his sister, and I showed her the picture. Oh, it's beautiful. Yes, but it made me wonder, and that's why I came to see you. Do you always sleep outside the hogan? Oh, no. This is part of ceremony of coming into womanhood. It is held in the hope that the girl may become all that a woman can be. A bearer of children? Yes, but more than that. Our people believe that a woman is the way her eyes look out of her mind. Mary, that's a very beautiful idea, and a true one. Please, I am to become a woman.  What is it like? That's not easy to say, Mary. Some people might say that to be a woman is to be sad, because the men do the strutting and the big important work like building and planning, harvesting, making money. But I always remember that women do the little important work, the comforting, the teaching, the singing. I'm not sad because I'm a woman, Mary.  Thank you. I wanted to know.  Will you come to my ceremony? So I went to the ceremony, marking Mary's coming to womanhood. The ceremony, oh, look at you, Kai, led the chanting. The medicine man was the center of the ceremony, but Mary was its spirit. Mary, who came through it with a straight back and almond eyes and a clear dark skin like a warm, young animal, but lovely and untouchable too. Mary was a woman now. And yet the most touching occurrence that ran through our lives at the trading post was the daily coming and going of young Jimmy. And one day we had good news for him and I determined to make him speak. Jimmy, we've sold some of your pictures. I have a great deal of money for you. Look, Jimmy, you can buy anything you want in this store. What would you like, huh? No, I won't do you any good to point, Jimmy. You'll have to tell me what you want. That's it, Jimmy. Look, everything over. See anything you like? Oh, no, you can't take it. You've got to ask for it. Jimmy, come back. Come on, Jimmy. Come on. That's right. There. Jimmy, you don't have to talk if you don't want to. I'm sorry I treated you that way. Here, it was this water pistol you wanted, wasn't it? Here it is. Aren't you even going to say thank you? Well, you feel thank you, don't you, Jimmy?  Isn't there something you'd like to say to me? I... I... There was a charm in our life at Wide Ruins and there was a pulse beat about the place as there is everywhere, only at Wide Ruins the pulse beat was slow and steady and strong. Bill and I almost forgot that we were there to sell the trading post. We almost forgot that we were anxious to get back to the city to the writing of cute little pieces for magazines of national circulation. But then one day the door of the trading post opened and we were reminded of both facts in an instance. Well, well, Bill and Sally Lippincott. That's right, and this is Charlie Dixon. How do you do? How do you do? Charlie, these are two of the finest writers an editor ever had.  Well, we'd love to go, but we can't. Oh, nonsense. You're here because the post couldn't be sold, aren't you? Well, I brought a buyer with me. What? What do you say, Charlie? Well, I'm not sure yet, but this certainly looks like what I want. Oh, Charlie. Charlie wants to get away from it all. Well, then you'll like it here, Mr. Dixon. Oh, yes, this is the place for you. Have you ever watched a desert sunset? No. You'll have to learn the ways of the Indians. You'll have to let them teach you. Yes. You start out being patient with them, being patronizing, but they just stare at you like, like wooden Indians.  And then you begin to see things the way they see them. It's really wonderful. It sounds wonderful. Well, it looks as if we're all going to get what we want. Charlie, you get right down to business and make out a check. And then I'm going to carry Sally and Bill back to New York with me. And, boy, are they going to make up for lost time. Am I going to make you two writers work? What's the matter, Sally? Bill, are you thinking the same thing I am? I certainly am. I'm sorry, Mr. Dixon, but wide ruins is not for sale. It was just a feeling we had. Bill and I couldn't quite explain why we had suddenly decided to stay at wide ruins. It had something to do with the desert and with all the stuff of the desert that went into little Jimmy's paintings or the Navajo women's rugs. And it had something to do with the peacefulness that we had found out here among the Navajos. But there was more to it than that. Something we couldn't put into words until the Indians, wouldn't you know it, taught us what it was. They had heard about a war going on in Europe, and they'd heard whispers that America might fight in that war. The elders of the tribe held counsel, and they sent all Lukachukei to Bill. The elders of the tribe wished to go to war. My friend, I'm afraid the government will want the young men. No, we wish young men remain behind. We have had our sports, our marriage, our children. We have lived. Our sons should live now. So we, the elders, will go, and our sons remain behind. My dear friend, I'm afraid you don't understand. The government will make your young men go. It will be a law. And I know that you'll want to obey that law. Your young men will have to go. Very well. Then we go to go into battle ahead of young men of our tribe, so they will be unharmed. That was our answer. That told us why we wanted to stay among the Navajos of wide ruins. The peacefulness we had found on the desert came from a philosophy that we had absorbed from the Indians. A philosophy of calmness and bravery and the kind of deep wisdom that permitted the older men to sacrifice themselves so that the younger ones would know laughter and love, would marry and beget that the race might go on. The war did come, and Bill, who went and I, who stayed at home, both faced it better because we had been at wide ruins. And we're back at wide ruins now, and here we'll stay among our friends and our teachers, the Indians of the desert, who are themselves like the desert, quiet and constant and deep and natural and American. We'll return to our capital-cape microphone in a moment. Now here is Ted Pearson. Every home gardener knows that plants are attacked and often killed by insect enemies, and that plants have diseases just like human beings. The insects and diseases that harm plants harm all of us. They mean less food for one thing because home vegetable gardens contribute a sizable amount to our national food supply. They mean less enjoyment to the home flower gardener. They even mean less happiness for the little girl in the city who tries to grow a single geranium on a window edge. So it's good news that now, for the first time, the DuPont company is manufacturing an all-purpose garden dust. Just what is an all-purpose garden dust, and why is it such good news? Well, until now you have generally had to buy a different product for each insect and plant disease. You may have wondered, as a good many other people have, why on earth somebody didn't invent one compound to do the whole job of protection? Well, the reason was that although the idea was there, the materials were not. Before such a compound could come into being, ingredients had to be discovered or developed. They would do the complete job when they were added together, and that's what chemists and biologists have now accomplished. The new DuPont garden compound contains four main ingredients. There's rotinone, DuPont DDT, and two new effective DuPont fungicides, Firmate and Xerlate. Applying it to gardens every seven to ten days gives protection against more than 40 insects and more than 20 plant diseases which may attack garden plants. However, applications should be stopped about 30 days before vegetables are picked. Home gardeners will especially appreciate the fact that DuPont garden dust is easy to use. It's sold as a dry powder. You can use it right out of the container. Or if you want to spray, all you do is add water. Now, here's a good illustration of chemical science at work. There was a need for a single compound to protect plants, but the compound could not come into being until a number of chemicals were available, each of which would take on part of the job and all of which would act together easily, effectively and economically. Chemists with other scientists developed those materials. And now you can buy an all-purpose garden dust. This is why we speak of our DuPont products as better things for better living through chemistry. And now, here is Helen Hayes. Thank you. If you're like me, you'll remember how exciting automobiles were in our childhood. Our memories may not go back 50 years, but the first auto in Detroit appeared that long ago. And next week, Cavalcade is honoring the industry's golden jubilee in a colorful story called, I Guess It's Here to Stay, starring Everett Sloan. It's a good story and I know you'll like it. Good night. Cavalcade marks with pleasure another milestone of progress in the automotive world. The return of the Memorial Day Classic, the Indianapolis Speed Race, which will be run this Thursday for the first time since the war began. The music for tonight's DuPont Cavalcade was composed by Arden Cornwell and conducted by Donald Voorhees. Our Cavalcade play was written by Robert Senadulla, and based on incidents from the book, Spin a Silver Dollar, by Alberto Hannum, published by The Viking Press. Featured with Ms. Hayes in tonight's cast were Carl Frank and Wanda Hernandez. Others in the cast included Sidney Sloan, Wilda Hinkel, Edith Tacna, and Cameron Pradham. This is Dwight Wiest inviting to listen next week to I Guess It's Here to Stay, starring Everett Sloan on the Cavalcade of America, brought to you by the DuPont Company of Wilmington, Delaware. This is NBC, the national broadcasting company.


Hey Joe just going back to that first quarter where you guys just kind of made everything Can you describe what it was like just to be in that flow and see everybody else in that rhythm where everything was just looking Yeah, I think Obviously saw the first few shots go down, but we were just moving the ball so well You know guys we're getting into the paint making the extra pass It seemed like all the looks that we got in that first quarter were room and rhythm, you know good degree type type shots Alex Joe, what'd you think of Tyler Johnson perform especially in the fourth quarter he seemed to really hit a few key shots for you guys tonight Yeah, TJ said the big I mean you can look across or the every every person that played Was huge for us, you know, I thought even the guys that you know statistically might not have You know appeared to have had the biggest impact like Justin. She owes a roadie. These guys were huge for us all night It was definitely a team win and everybody contributed Christian And Joe you guys now be in the Lakers the Bucks and the Clippers What is it about these matchups against, you know championship contenders that appears to be getting you guys up these games? You know, I don't know anything about the matchup I think you know, especially here right now where it's a group where you know, we are definitely a little bit underestimated We have that chip on our shoulder and we're just out here, you know playing for each other Competing playing hard and trying to play the right way Fountains Hey, Joe, hope you're doing well man a little bit of a random question for you But what of the interactions with the officials been like here because obviously, you know when you guys are playing in a normal arena There's a lot of noise Kind of becomes a background noise for the fans, but here you can kind of hear everything that's being said I was just curious if that's changed kind of Yeah, I think you know, there's always, you know pretty good dialogue. I guess between players and the officials Probably now it's you know, it's a little more clear just because there isn't any sort of Outside noise other circumstances. You're definitely able to communicate better with the officials since we've been in the bubble


You know, I told myself last week, if this doesn't work out, I've had enough. I'm going to destroy what's left of my liver with vodka and some Russian girls, unfortunately for me. But, fortunately for you guys, the sale on that property has not gone through. The problem is, I don't have enough money. I'm currently applying for loans and I've been doing that for the past few months. This week, I'm reaching out to some more banks. I'm following up on those applications. But I also want to see if you guys are able to help me out. And I've kept it under hush a little bit, but the property I'm actually looking at is not a farm. It's a slaughterhouse completely operating for sale in Pennsylvania.  And this would allow me, as soon as I get it, to immediately start providing every cut of beef, fresh meat on a weekly basis, value-added products like sausage and jerky. They have an outside smokehouse, more affordable pasture-race pork and chicken, all cuts of that. Really transforming my business, providing you guys with even more high-quality animal foods at an even more affordable price. And more importantly, becoming something that's actually profitable that I can then very quickly expand to a farm property and everything that I've wanted to do. You know, this isn't a matter of months or years. It's a matter of weeks if I can get the money. I'm not trying to sound like a little kid having a tantrum like, If I don't get this, I'm done. I'm over.  The reason I was going to give up is because of how logistically difficult it is to build a slaughterhouse. Finding a location, the zoning, you know, known in the community, objecting to it, the amount of time it takes, not getting crucified by a contractor, the staffing, you know, with what's going on in the world that's basically impossible. And there's a pretty good possibility that the whole meat supply chain will collapse before I get that slaughterhouse built, compromising my current business. So I have in front of me what I consider a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I've been speaking to a slaughterhouse consultant and he basically said that no one has had a customer base like mine when they've purchased a slaughterhouse, you know, already having the retail side figured out on a very large scale. So on its own, purchasing a slaughterhouse isn't really that great of an idea on your money return, but when combined with two already existing businesses, what that guy has and what I have, it's a no-brainer. I don't think it's ever happened in the history of the meat business, to be honest. To put it bluntly, I need $1.5 million for the purchase of the slaughterhouse, the existing business, as well as enough operating capital to keep the business running, which is actually quite a lot, a few hundred thousand. And with what I'm currently doing, it would take me, God knows how many, four, five, six, seven years to raise that much money. And I'll be gone by then, boys. I'll be lost in the Siberian forest. I will not last that long.  It's with the hope of improving people's health selflessly so that they can live more enjoyable lives.   I need some help. I need some more help. I've never done this for the money. I'm losing my goddamn mind living with my parents.  I've only tried to help other people. And as I said, I am ready to walk away.   And for those of you that have been following from the start, you know, the Kickstarter scam, they took our 35,000 starting funds. I was really losing it throughout this whole process. The contractor that ripped me off for that installation, my business partner being a rotten apple, it's gotten to the point that if this really doesn't happen, whether I buy this business or someone else buys this business, this is really going to be it. And by give up, I don't necessarily mean quit Frankie's free range of meat, but I would forgo the future of expanding the business, the farm, the eggs, the dairy, everything you guys have wanted. I would basically be hands off.  And because of how I am censored and suppressed, when I make videos explaining that, no one really sees it. So I don't really care at this point. It's too much. Look, if the majority of businesses are evil motherfuckers and everyone's against me trying to make sure I don't become successful, fine, look, I'll go play with your boys and dresses. I've had enough. And the problem with investors and most of them are part of these groups of people is that they will without a doubt want a percentage equity in the company and they'll also control things to the point where I won't really be able to provide a quality product to my consumers. Bigger problem with investors is they don't understand the meat business, what I've built, the context of the situation. However, I have been fortunate enough to meet some very intelligent and experienced business people from an operations perspective, accounting, mechanical, the meat business. I have a lot of help in all aspects that I would ever need to make this truly successful. So my idea for the fundraiser was to offer you guys a long-term discount on my products for an upfront investment. These aren't exact numbers, but I was thinking like a 5% additional discount on orders for 5, 10 or 15 years based on a $2,500, 5,000 or $10,000 investment. Honestly, maybe I can even do some sort of public thing with the company. As I said, guys, I'm not doing this for the money. I don't care. If what I do is give people a percent of the company based off their investment just to keep this going, that might be an option as well. But if you order for every week, that discount would result in roughly a double return on your money over that period of time. And another thing to consider is when I do get all of these new cuts, the eggs, the dairy, all of that stuff, you might be spending two to three times as much money. And I might even be comfortable spreading this discount to all of my businesses, not just Frankie's free-range meat. Of course, I'm going to put some clauses in there, have my lawyer write things up, where you're obligated to receive your money back. If I don't get the slaughterhouse, I'll be refunding everyone's money. If I quit the business, I'll be refunding everyone's money. If you want to relinquish your discount for the initial capital back, we can do something on a yearly percentage basis. I'll have to work out those specific details, but for now I just want to gauge interest and see if this is even possible. You guys can send me an email to info at frankiesfreerangemeet.com and I'm basically going to see how many people want to do this. And if I get a few dozen, hopefully over a hundred responses, then what I'll do is I'll reach back out to those people. I'll try to get some more legitimate stuff like some ID, some information that they're actually willing to do it. Either way in a week or two, I'll give you guys an update. For anyone curious about GoFundMe, your Kickstarter, I mean, you haven't been following this channel if you're suggesting that.  And look, I'm not saying I'm pessimistic, but like when I asked you guys money for the lawyer stuff, I mean, I think we got like a few hundred bucks.  If it doesn't, hey, Frank, you'll finally be on a beach with some Russian slash Mexican slash. I don't know any race of girl. Look, the point is I'm relaxing. I've had enough.  How much more am I going to commit to this if everything's against me? So this is really it. You know, whether that slaughterhouse sells to me or someone else, that's, this is, I'm not going to stick this out for five, six years, build my own. I'm not going to try to do this.  All right. Thank you guys for joining me today. If you could please share this video above all, especially, I'm going to send this out with what I have of my marketing email list and really push this week as well as do another video tomorrow.  So thanks again, guys. Go to FrankDashToFound.com to see all my businesses, the emails on the meat website as well, info at FrankDashToFound.com. I'll see you tomorrow.


I'm Zor. Welcome to the user education. I will continue talking about triangles in particular about exterior angles of the triangle. Well, first of all, what is exterior angle? Well, consider you have a triangle and these angles are for obvious reason called interior angles. Well, exterior angle is something different. Consider you are extending one of the sides beyond the vertex in some direction. Then the continuation of this side with one other side from the same vertex actually makes an angle which is called exterior. Now, if I will extend this particular side, this is also exterior angle. By the way, equal to the first one because they are vertical. Now, similarly, I can extend towards this direction beyond this vertex and have this angle as an exterior one or extend this particular side and consider this angle as exterior. Finally, we have two other continuations and two other exterior angles, this and this. So, as you see, we have six different exterior angles, and they're making pairs actually of equal to each other, congruent angles because they are vertical. Now, let's talk about one particular property of the exterior angle and let me just leave one of those. Six little below six. So, let's say we have a triangle called ABC and we have extended line AC side AC beyond vertex C to equal to G. And we consider exterior angle BCG. Now, the theorem about the exterior angle. So, the theorem is that any exterior angle is greater than any of the interiors, not supplemental to it. So, the supplemental for this exterior is this. So, we are not considering this supplemental interior angle. We are considering two other angles and the theorem states that any one of those is smaller than this. All right, now let's talk about proving for this. Since we are trying to be as rigorous as possible in this course, I will present a proof which is actually first time presented by Euclid in one of his books, 300 Years BC. Now, first let me just explain how the whole logic actually goes. And then I will comment on it. So, here is what Euclid has offered as a proof of this statement. Well, let's take the middle point of BC and connect with A and go further. This is E to point F for a distance equal to AE and connect these two. Now, Euclid suggested to consider these two triangles. This one and this one. So, the statement is they are equal because BE equals to EC since E is the middle point of BC. So, these two sides of these two triangles are congruent segments. Now, since AE and EF also are segments of the same size, because we have made this, that's the way how we constructed the point F. We measure this distance AE and the continuation of AE just put the F in the same distance. So, this is also congruent segments, sides. And obviously, this angle is, these angles are vertical and that's why they are equal. So, both triangles are congruent to each other by side angle, side axle. Fine, this is done, no problem with that. Next statement is because these two triangles are equal, congruent, I'm always mixing equal, equal to congruent. Anyway, because they are congruent, we can say that the corresponding angles are also congruent. And corresponding to this angle B is this angle, angle ACF. So, instead of proving that the exterior angle ECG is greater than angle ABC, we will prove that it's bigger than ECF, this angle, which is equal to this. How do we do that? Well, here is where logic offered by Euclid might have certain questions. He said the following. Since the point F lies inside the angle BCD, ray CF makes an angle with CB part of the entire angle BCD or BCD. So, this angle is part of this angle. And that's why, since it's part of the exterior angle, it's smaller and that's why the exterior angle is bigger than B, which was supposed to be proven. Well, this logic is not like exactly 100% reverse because we have to really talk about what does it mean for a point to be inside the angle. We also have to elaborate on the question of a part being smaller than the whole. This particular angle, even if it's a part, why is it smaller than the bigger exterior angle? But I believe that these are very difficult nuances in logic, which I probably would not address right now. Euclid did not address them. And it's probably sufficient to just take this explanation as it is without getting very strict on rigorousness of these concepts of point being inside the angle. We kind of understand what it is. And I would like you, with me, to give Euclid for this more intuitive rather than 100% rigorous proof. But it's an interesting kind of standpoint and it probably would be interesting to put the whole proof on a more rigorous foundation. But that is not actually our purpose. Since our purpose is to exercise the brain, this is enough for an exercise. So we have proven, almost proven, that exterior angle ECG is greater than ABC interior angle, not supplemental, is it? Now similarly, we can prove that this angle, BAC, is also smaller. To this purpose, we actually have to draw a slightly different picture and instead of considering this exterior angle, we can consider this exterior angle and then compare it with A and build slightly different triangles. Instead of going this way, we will go from B through the center of AC to this point. That would be point F. So anyway, the proof will be exactly the same in this particular case. And we will prove that this angle is equal to this one, which is part of the exterior angle. Exactly the same type of watch. So that's why exterior angle, either this or this, and they are equal to each other, exterior angle is always bigger than any interior not supplemental to it. Basically, it's a very, very short and very simple theorem. It just requires one additional construction drawing. However, what's interesting is that this particular theorem has a lot of very important implications. And for instance, one of the simplest implications is that in the right triangle, both angles, which are not the right angle, both non-right angles are acute. Why? Because exterior angle is also 90 degree and it's bigger than these guys. That's why they are smaller than 90 degree. Same thing if it's not a right triangle but a choose triangle. Again, this is, since it's a 2's, this angle is greater than 90 degree. So this one is smaller than 90 degree, but still they are even smaller. That's why they're also acute. So these are just two little consequences. Well, that's it for this little theorem. I would like to mention again Unisor.com as the site where parents might find it some very useful techniques for supervising education of their children. They can enroll them in certain lessons or programs or lectures and have them take exams and check the scores and even participate in like passing or failing this or that particular educational material. So I do recommend to go to the site. It has lots of very interesting material. Well, that's it for today. Thank you very much.


I'm Saachi, and I work for Anchor Systems, and this is how we handled RAPID MQ failures gracefully with HA Proxy. For a quick refresher, what is RAPID MQ? Simply, it's a broker. It's a Q, stuff goes through it. Why is it important? It's at the center of pretty much everything. For NOVA or Cinder or Neutron to talk to, it's other components. Everything goes through the Q. The issue is when RAPID MQ, one of the server's dies, there's no keep alive TCP or in-app heartbeats to let the client know that the server has gone away, and therefore it doesn't attempt to reconnect. And you end up with clients publishing to it, but nothing consuming it, because consumption is push-based and publishing is push. You push it to the server, and the server pushes it to the client. So when you try and push the server and the connection is died, you'll reconnect. When you are just waiting for messages, you never realize it's died. So you end up with a broken cloud. Everything died. One way of dealing with this problem is TCP keep alive. You'd need to change the settings to make it a reasonable timeout, not three hours. And another way would be to use heartbeat. This would be in-app. You could use some in-app smarts and implement it that way. Another advantage of this is it allows you to transfer us through things such as a load balancer without occasionally dropping the connection or having ridiculous timeouts on your connections for no traffic. So a typical rabbit setup looks like this, just a clustered rabbit. You've got an open-sac service connecting to two rabbit MQ services that are replicating the queues between them. And when one dies, the open-sac service dies effectively. To attempt to solve this, we threw in a HA proxy. And it worked pretty well. One of the rabbits goes away. HA proxy notices this and is implementing TCP keep alive with a reasonable timeout and sends a reset to the open-sac client, which then gracefully reconnects to the HA proxy, which then connects it to the still alive rabbit MQ. Of course, this needs to be HA. And we implemented this by putting a service IP that would move between the two HA proxies. Problem being, we just created the same problem with HA proxy that we had with rabbit. When the HA proxies dies, the IP moves over. The open-sac consumers don't realize it. And you've got a broken cloud again. To solve that, we moved HA proxy onto each server that's running open-sac services. We assume that that HA proxy isn't going to die. And if it does, that whole node probably has a problem. So it's fine that it died out. It can be off of a cluster and we can deal with it as needed. This works pretty well. Other than there's no longer a central load balancer, so one rabbit may have all the connections. But that was the case before as well. It's not really a concern because we don't have enough of them for it to matter. If you wanted to, if you did care about that, you could throw another HA proxy in the middle and have HA proxy connect to HA proxy to connect to rabbit. And it would all work. So one dies, the open-sac services remain alive, everything keeps working, and nobody notices that there is failure other than maybe monitoring, which is fine. Back and forth, it's fine. And that's it. The slides are available at this website and as well as contact details, launchpad bug, link, and we can take a look at the config snippet for HA proxy. So it's not a great config. It was just pulled off of our API load balancer and then had RabbitMQ just smack back into it. Because RabbitMQ is not always talking, it may be quiet for some time, the timeout on both client and server has been set ridiculously high. And that keeps it from sporadically just closing the connection. Option TCPKA makes HA proxy do TCP keep alive, or start doing TCP keep alive. So that means it sends an act to the client and the server, that is one before its current sequence, and then it gets a reply. And that's how it's able to tell if a connection has died and able to send a reset. And with that, RabbitMQ gracefully fails. Any questions? Well now I've got two. Sorry, now I have two mics and it's confused me. So you mentioned an overbug. What's the state of that overbug? Did you have to do this because we'd let you down and not actually fix the thing? This bug has been open since about 2013, I believe. So it's a matter that it's not resolved yet. So this workaround was done as a way to make our open stack deployment reliable, even though this part of it hasn't been made reliable yet.  And should please have a look at this bug. Oh, so it's probably just miscategorized. And if we put it in the right place, people would see it. No, it's in the right place. Take a look at the bug if it'll load. Yeah, that does look like it needs to be filed against also messaging. Oh, there it is, in progress. Cool, that was my question. Any other questions? Are you running mehortqs in RabbitMQ? And if yes, how are you dealing with potential split brain and any issues there? Sorry, could you say again? Are you running mehortqs? Are you running mehortqs on Rabbit on the two Rabbit nodes? Yes. And with this HA configuration, have you had any split brain issues with mehortqs? Nope. Our network is fairly reliable. It's a infinite band fabric. So we haven't had any issues there, as well as if one goes out, I'm not sure. But hopefully it will just stop serving. Like, I'd rather have both stopped serving than if they're confused. But that probably wouldn't happen. I'll ask the question. Because you said your network is very reliable. So are you relying on the network being reliable? And have you tried plugging the cable between the two Rabbit nodes to see what happens? Or so far, nothing has happened because the network is reliable? So far, nothing's happened because the network is reliable. We've had system failures.  We've had Rabbit Crash. And it kept running perfectly because HA proxy was in the middle, unable to just move the connections on across. I'll talk to you offline later. Any others? OK. Thank you.


Welcome back everyone. This is the Senate Health and Welfare Committee on Friday, February 18th. And we are joined today by three young women from the voices. Let me make sure I get it right. Our voices exposed youth tobacco prevention program. And if you girls wanna introduce yourselves, I'll go in alphabetical order, I think. Leah, if you wanna start first. I'm Leah Elliott and I'm from Spalding and I'm here to represent OVX. Great, Becca. My name's Becca McKelvie. I'm a junior at Spalding and I'm also here to represent OVX. Wonderful, Madison. Hi, I'm Madison Ashford. I am a junior at Spalding and I'm also here representing OVX. Great. And just for our view. Where is Spalding? Just so we all know. It's in Senator Cummings. Is it in, where is it? What town is it in? It's in Barrie, Vermont. So just- In Barrie. It's in Barrie. All right, so Senator Cummings, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself first. Okay, I'm in Cummings and I am your Senator. I represent Washington County. Awesome, Senator Hooker. Thank you, I'm Cheryl Hooker. I represent Rutland County. Welcome, thanks for being involved. And Senator Charanzini. Hey, good morning, Senator Josh Charanzini from Rutland County and I was also a member of OVX when I was in high school. Cool. And I'm Senator Ruth Hardy. I represent the Addison district. So why don't you all go ahead with your presentation and we will listen to what you have to say. So recently we have experienced an uprising in vaping in our school and I think other schools in Vermont. And typically throughout the day, if you go into the bathroom, you can smell that people have been vaping in there because it's pretty much a fruity scent. Recently also, I know last week the boys bathroom had to be closed and they put a sign up that says closed due to vaping and it has also happened for other bathrooms around the school for the girls bathrooms as well. That's also not the first time that this has happened. This has happened multiple times and teachers have had to come and actually monitor the bathrooms, but as you know, like they can't be everywhere at every time. Aliyah, did you wanna add anything? Not really. I agree that's been happening. It's a real big issue at our school. And what, are there any programs at your school to help prevent vaping or why do you think so many students are doing it? So we do have SAD in our school, which is Students Against Destructive Decisions and it works through OVX and our advisor for OVX is also the advisor for SAD.  We've actually had people take down the posters because they disagree with them. I also recently did a podcast and they were sent out to the entire school. So we are trying to like spread the word about how bad vaping is and we're trying to get the attention of the students. But obviously outside of school, it's still an issue and then they bring it back into school. And why do you think it's so popular with students to use vaping products? Personally, I think it's because it's so accessible to them. You obviously can get them right at the gas station. I know you have to be of age, but a lot of people have friends that are in college that can get them for them and then they give them to their friends or they ask their friends at school, hey, do you wanna hit my vape type thing? So it's way too common that we see it. In fact, just yesterday, a student that I've never met before asked me if I had a vape and I immediately went right to my advisor and told her and I was honestly grossed out when I was asked that question because I just hate that every kid thinks that every kid vapes. I also think it's like in how it's presented to us like advertised despite all like depression stick commercials that are being shown to us right now. But like Becca said, it's very accessible and like people make it accessible to us. Senator Hooker, did you have a question? Thank you, I do. Can you talk about the way your administration at school handles cases when somebody is vaping in the bathroom or if someone goes to them and talks about people asking them about vaping, how is the administration handling them, the complaints? So we don't know how to say this but we don't exactly know what happens between like the administration and the student like the meeting that they have but I know that they are talked to by our assistant principal because he's the one that handles like behavioral stuff. And as I said, they usually try to close the bathrooms to prevent this but our school has opened up the staff bathrooms which are now considered general neutral bathrooms and I know people who vape who do go into those bathrooms because it's a more private location and they're less likely to be caught. Okay. Okay. And do they close all the bathrooms? What if you have to go to the bathroom? What do you do? Usually they only close, there's like two bathrooms on each floor. So usually they just close one of the bathrooms on that floor. So there is still another one available. Oh, okay. Okay. That's better. Parker, did you have a follow-up question? No, it's just this certainly is a new take on an old problem. We've been dealing with tobacco and nicotine for a long time and I appreciate that you're involved in this and trying to do something to make others aware of the destructive nature of these products. Senator Cummings, did you have a question? Yeah, some of your peers spoke to Lee Senator Hardy and I in finance. I think it was last week. And they were talking about mail order and even though we've raised the age for everything to 21, that there was a lot of black market vapes coming in. Are you seeing that? I definitely haven't heard anything about that but it would make sense considering a lot of people in our school that actually do utilize these products. Okay. But you're also seeing them just coming from the local gas stations and kids getting them that way. And you think it's older kids buying them for them, not just that they're not carded? Is that what I was hearing? No, they'll be carded. Yeah, I would say it's definitely the older kids like older siblings or kids used to go to high school with them. Did you have another question, Senator Cummings? No, no. Senator Taranzini, did you have a question? Well, I was just thinking Senator Hardy, I applaud these three young ladies for being so courageous to come talk to us about this. Especially, we know that high school years can be difficult with people being picked on and bullies and so on. And I'm sure it's not always easy to stand up to your classmates and when you know something's wrong and it's so popular. And I applaud you for being courageous about this and caring about your community's health. So keep up the good work. Yeah, absolutely. I think we all agree with Senator Taranzini. Are there other things you want us to know about this, about your efforts with OVX? Which, can you remind us what OVX stands for? Yeah, OVX is Our Voices Exposed. Okay. And is it specific to tobacco issues or is it broader than that? It's broader than that too. So it can be like alcohol prevention or relationships like basically stuff to keep the community safe. So health and safety for students, I see. That's good. So do you have other things you wanna share with us? We're the Health and Welfare Committee. So we'd love to hear your thoughts on other things if you want to share. Madison? I just had a question. Sure. So I know that, well, I used to go to Williamstown Middle High School and a couple of years ago, they had the same issue and they installed smoke detector type things in their bathrooms and they're like post-wedding it, posting it on social media. Is that actually like effective? Like I don't understand how that works and if it is, why don't we use things like this? That is a good question. I don't know. I don't know if anyone else knows. It sounds like they were specific to catching cigarette smoke kind of things. I don't know if it would be effective on vaping but that's a really good question to ask your principal and maybe the principal could ask the facilities manager about it because if that is an effective deterrent or alarm, that might be a good idea. Yeah. This committee has done a lot of work on tobacco prevention and a few years ago, the Senate and the full legislature passed a raise the age bill that raised the age for accessing cigarettes and vapes and other products to 21. Tobacco 21 was what it was called and it started in this committee just so you know we have worked for many years on this issue and Senator Lyons who's the chair is a particularly vocal champion on tobacco prevention as who's not here right now. And Becca, I just wanted to add, you mentioned that you did a podcast. Is that something that you would be willing to share with us and to send along to Erin and we could post it on our website and listen to it in our free time? Yeah, I definitely can. I don't have the link, but I'm sure I can find it and send it to Song if Song can send it out to you guys, do you know? I don't know. She was the one that set us up for this meeting. Okay, Erin, do you have her contact information? Yes, she can send it to me, I can talk to her. Okay, that would be great. So if you want to send the link to that or any other things you've written or produced that you would like to share with us, that'd be great. No, it definitely will. Wonderful. Well, girls, thank you so much for your time today. It's been really nice to have you in our committee and you're welcome back any time to talk to us about this or any other issues that might be impacting you. And thank you for your good work in your school.  I'm assuming you're all right. I was gonna ask them if they were in school today. That means my grandkids aren't in school either. Thanks so much, have a good break too. Yes, that's right. Thank you. We'll see you everybody. Bye.


Hey folks, we'll get started in one minute. Okay. I will paste the link in and begin to screen. Okay. Hello everybody, welcome to the Aries did come be to working group for April 10, 2023. So we're going to be on our last meeting before the I I W week. And so we'll probably be off next week. I still Lincoln. Again, in case let's see. God Alex, never don't go. Helping me on some things to call him in here. Okay, there's our link for today. I want to remind everybody of the antitrust the hyper ledger antitrust policy and the hyper ledger code of conduct. And feel free to add yourself to the attendees list. Is there anyone new today that would like to introduce themselves. Okay, are there any announcements from our areas working group meetings or anything else from frameworks out there. If anything, before we jump into the I I W stuff. Okay. All right, well then let's jump in. We've seen a ton of of activity. Regarding I W preparing for the I W did comfy to connectathon. Again, that's Wednesday, April 19 from 130 to 230 after lunch during I W. Yeah, it would be great to just go through and get updates roots ID folks. Any updates you want to give from this past week. I saw a ton of activities. I did last I did I including the in the hack and the include the like interoperability matrix. So we can so we can then start. Is it able. Yeah, that one. So try to start putting whatever test we we pass. Yeah, I'm not there. So that's what I wanted to do on there. The last days. And there's a reference so it's just being a basic message. Okay.  Yeah. Okay. Great. Someone can improve that. That was my first attempt to have something. Yeah, this is great. Thank you for doing that. Message pickup. Okay, forward. Excellent. And so if I'm reading this correctly then. Obviously roots well to root solid Android. We can do trust being basic message. Same for iOS. Same for our prism. We just have basic message right now. Block trust web agent. We have basic message. And for Nessus agent, we have trust ping. Great. Okay. And then so. Right, we can go down the list. Yeah, basic message across. Okay, it looks like block trust and Nessus then have done. Trust ping and basic message. Fantastic. Well, maybe this is, yeah, I think I don't always be on update that. Yeah. Okay, good, good. But I think Nessus doesn't answer. So use center message to them and it shows up in the list. Yeah, great. Yeah, I guess you can. You can see on the list on the web page. Yeah, you see that they received your basic message. On the connections where you see that. Oh, when you open Nessus and then you can open the connections. Okay. Okay, go good. Great. It might be down there. Yeah. Hey, then can you reshare the link real quick for the activity? Yes. Thank you. Back in the incoming now. I think this was where those interaction. Okay, it looks like the Nessus playgrounds down right now. And we call it's, I think it's working. Oh, maybe the link that I went to. Yes. That's for using that for. Okay. Yeah. All right. And then did peer and then you go to connections on the right side. Yes. Okay. Government connections. Okay. I see some root ID mediator stuff. Is there a way that I can identify block trust? Do we know maybe it's. I don't know how often this three sets. Okay. But if you click one of those, you know, the connection link. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. You have a message there. So click, click on show. On the basic message. And you're going to see your Nessus. This is a root CD. Okay. Fantastic. Okay. I love it. I love the chart. Thank you so much for. Yeah. In that one, you also see that it's a proposed credential and a West credential. So. Thank you. Yeah. Should get the VR from Thomas, I think. Right. Okay. You bomb did it first. Yeah. I did that like in the Jupiter notebook. I don't know if that counts though. Yeah. Yeah. On the table as well. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Just off the top of my head since we want to touch base at the did calm, did calm user group meeting today who will be there for that. I think I can only listen to it. I'll be in the car. But I would love them to. Okay. Great. Cause I would love them to see this because this is, you know, goes well with the effort that we're just trying to do there of showing more services, interacting. Great. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think we have some thoughts on this table of progress that we might make this week. Or, or, you know, what else based on this table, you know, do we need to tackle. Yeah, I'll fill in the Varamo stuff. Okay. Yeah. Any updates on Varamo mediator or. Yeah. Roots wallet for Ramo. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was able to send like, do a trust ping to it. And yes, like basic message. Those. Okay. Great. No. I'm trying to make sure that the whole mediation. The request in the pickup protocol, all that kind of stuff works. Excellent. Okay. And then Bjorn, do you want to give any block trust updates?  Happiness and struggles, whatever they may be. Yeah. I think we had a few breakthroughs. Last week to get everything working. But there's really nothing new pick to. Announce or to talk about at the moment. Okay. Very good. Also be before the table.  I started in last week, like issues found during preparations as to. Maybe least what we found and keep there as a guide for future implementations. To say this topics that we know they are. Yeah. The, the cases that need to be fixed. Like the, yeah. Service endpoint is on the top of the leaf. I think how you call the, the idea on the service endpoint. And other stuff that we need to. That's mostly things that I. Work with Bjorn. But yeah, I need to spend with the others as well. Yeah. The service endpoint is really the big thing because that's not really documented how to do this. And. Yeah. We just aligned on the, on the person way of doing this. Okay. All right. Very good. Any other. Just looking at our list of folks. Any, anybody else have. Comments, questions. About the table. Then we can start talking about. Well, what will give us the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the most bang for the buck at IW. Okay. All right, so. From our point of view, I think, you know, this hack MD is fantastic. Of course, also being able to show these things. Next week at IW will be also fantastic technically. Is there anything. That we feel like will help. Less technical folks. You know, enjoy this or, or, or, or feel the, the, the power or the, the progress of this. I guess what I'm asking is what do you. Want to show in, in, in our five minute times with each person or 10 minute times with each person. What is it that we want to show. We want to show certainly from our agents that, that we made a connection and there was a chat. Is there anything else that will kind of help hit this home for, for people. So I would find it nice if we have. One or multiple posters. Depending where we are at the room, we could have some posters at the wall. But I think that maybe every team has a poster just explaining very basically what they are doing. So because it's in. It's, it's quite complicated to really understand what's going on, but visually it's more easily. Every team has a poster which just lists the features. So just an easy idea to produce. Okay, is that. I would love to make that more digital. Well, if I was on the same thing since you're talking about less technical people, I'm here. So this is, I've been interested in overall security identity and all that. So I know what the areas is for. I know what did come is for now. So I'm going to talk about how they work together. However, how is this like put together? How do they work with relationship with the distributed identity foundation. And the hyper ledger foundation. And also, they're also like open ID. That's very popular in the open in a CNCF security. How all this integrate together, how they fit together in a bigger picture. And specifically. You already have a pretty nice table content will be great to have more simplified. Like a table of what the protocol are. And. Yeah, it just kind of for education purpose for non tactical people. And overall, I guess this is just a big picture. Right. And put together what kind of problem that they saw. Yeah, very good. I, my sense then is that I should create a video. I mean, we've been talking about the highlights video, but maybe that's the point of the video that someone could. Sit and watch it for five minutes or two and a half minutes or whatever. Kind of understand how this all plays together. And then when they, you know. Spend time with us another five minutes, let's say. Then, you know, they're seeing it actually working, but to have an idea of how it fits. Because, you know, I do think that what you're saying, if you weren't about the poster and posters are fine too, like a physical poster would be good, but I guess digitally, I want to give people a fairly fast way to come up to speed. Yeah. I like that. I love it how it fits within Aries diff. Open ID connect. One area I'm actively involved in it's the, because I'm a database guy, so I'm interested in the, like the species, species spire, like the continuous authentication protocol that's going on in the, in the, in the CNCF work. So I just wonder how does this, is this going to help in that area going forward in the future. Continuous authentication. I'm not super. I mean, I kind of can glean from what it's called. Does anybody have thoughts on. Continuous authentication. Or, or maybe a little more about that will help. The project name is called species spire, species, but SPI FFE. And then the SPI RE is actually implementation. So the idea is every, every, every connection you to the database is, is authenticated. So it's now like a, it's kind of part of the real trust. Because I'm a database guy. I saw how the, how the real trust every, every time you connect to the database is authenticated. So, um, yeah. So that's why I'm looking at all these different protocols. And I mean, having distributors, authentication seems to be interesting. And then, um, and then, yeah, how does to come help that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, very good. Yeah. Good insights. That's victory. Yeah. Thanks, Victor. I like, uh, it's, it's nice to have that perspective because we're so stuck on just, uh, you know, trying to get these protocols to interoperate. It was a big one. Yeah. I think that's really cool. I tore everything. Oh, it's, uh, right. Good. Okay. Other thoughts that will help hit this home. I mean, I think. I think for sure these two are huge. I love the idea of a poster. Um, it just makes me nervous having a physical thing. Uh, you know, in the next week. And having maybe we can. Yeah. Uh, if we have a table near the board. Whiteboards. Maybe we can use those as the, yeah. We can write it down there, right? But I don't know which table. How does assigned tables. Maybe we can ask. Yeah. And certainly on our laptops, we could, you know, kind of have like a summary. Maybe of ours, our particular. Uh, Summary of our. Agent. People abilities. Yeah, something like that. Okay. Yeah, though, I think all of those are good options then. Basically to have a visual aid. Okay. Good. How much do people care about the video idea? Do people feel like that is, um, absolutely necessary. Uh, a nice to have. Or something that, you know, we should really strive to have.  Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Again, I'm totally non-technical in this area. Um, so yeah. You'll be nice. And also what happened real helps really well is I'm also joined. I'm not used to this area where I have time right now. So the open SSF open spirit foundation, they have a, a product, what is the project does a diagram. And so what they do. So when I joined that, because I want to learn what's going on, right, so the diagram helps me like, uh, navigate what's going on in the community and what project and how they're related. So not video is definitely a great idea. It'll be great even, even have a diagram which helps them, you know, of course that diagram can also be updated to reflect changes in the relationships. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Regarding the video, I think that could also be something which we can do after IW. So then we have some photos and some report what happened there. And I think the video is more something we can share over social media or give people. I don't think that the impact of a video, um, while the conference happen, it's happening is so big because the, most people don't have the time to, or it, I think it's hard really to watch a five minute video while all the people are running around and they don't see it and the acoustics of it. So I think it's a great idea. I think that the impact of the video should be designed or should be for a larger audience. And therefore it's, I think it's fine if we do that afterwards. Okay. Yeah. And again, I'm not going to IW. That's why I agree for someone like me who is totally new to this area and after IW probably. Okay, great. Okay. Yep. And I see Alex saying he thinks the diagram might be more helpful. I thought that Bjorn had pretty much. Yeah. Good. All right. Very good. That's great. That puts certainly less pressure on me for over the next week. So great. Yes. Right. Yeah, let's, um, I mean, certainly I guess the video will essentially be the video of all these different parts and just explaining it. So, yeah. Good. Very good. Somehow showing, yeah, there are, there are many different Asians on the table. That's I think one of the key things is not only. But the amount to it's going to be like, yeah. Five, yeah, six, whatever. We have. Good. Yeah, I guess it is right. It won't be obvious when people approach the table that they're essentially approaching. That the connectathon is that they're approaching.  We're, yeah, a bunch of different teams. They're doing a connectathon so that that will be. Something we need to repeat over and over again. I think. Any other thoughts on that? I mean, that this is where the poster idea, I think, you know, is nice because. You know, it's good to see each team. Kind of highlighted and represented. So this diagram then. That we like. Is this diagram a diagram of each vendor. Interaction so essentially like a more visual. A version of the table. That Rodolfo created, or is it more of a diagram of how did calm fits in the SSI ecosystem, or both. I would think that Victor, for instance, would want to see how did come fits in the SSI ecosystem. But then yeah, we also want to highlight interoperability, I guess across vendors. Any thoughts on that? We'll try to make both happen, I guess. Certainly if I was going to create slides for a video, I'd try to highlight both so. Okay. All right. Well, okay, so given, you know, everything that we've listed. What do we, what is. What do we absolutely need to do this week. We would add the flurry of activity from last week was amazing. I think, you know, really great results. I mean, this is our table here is a huge leap forward. We got updates from. Roots ID folks and block trust. And regarding for Ramo. Yeah, what else. Yeah, I think, I think, well, yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Rodolfo, go first. No, it's okay. No, I'm saying that I think we tested between the two of us, maybe the Ramo and prison are the one that we should focus. And that's what I think is, we are ready. Yeah, I get it at the point that is, I think, comfortable to show that in a, even in the demo, not another video, we can put that web page and send messages. I'm going to see on that. Yeah. Dashboard, right? I think the prison and the, maybe the, the prison wallet that made Tony would have, I don't know which one he's going to use that one. I think it's the one that needs to be tested or find what what's going to be. Um, maybe I don't know Alex, the Ramo, right? Yeah. It goes out the best person to test with the prison agent type thing or like, who can we test against? Make sure that it works before the actual demo. Cause like, I was able to test like prison, like the prison agent would be on the like wallet, for example, right? But should I try to run like Gonzalo wallet or is that like what he's using? Cause like, I know like he was working on updating some of the code as well. And like, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to ask. Yeah. I'm going to ask him. Right now. And ask what it's going to do. Yeah. And then like from the veramo side, I know like veramo to veramo works, the veramo to sick by libraries. We can decrypt messages. But they cannot encrypt them and send them back to the sick by libraries as far as I know right now. So one of the veramo devs is going to be back tomorrow and I'm going to try to meet up with him to, to finish the, the rest of it. So that's where I'm right there. Okay. And yeah, I mean, it's important that we just to remind everyone it's important that we collect all of these difficulties or, you know, challenges, all the work that we're doing. So that when future vendors want to. You know, join our ecosystem that we're helping to create that they can navigate these issues quickly. So some of that might be updating the spec, for instance, but it sounds like a lot of it is just engineering. For example, like the veramo guys, the reason why they couldn't decrypt is because they were missing some as algorithm that didn't support for the library. So they had to implement that. So where, where are we capturing those aspects? I can write it in, in the, in here, like the, the pull request that was made to, to fix that issue. I can put it in the HackMD, for example. Okay. So that'll go under like issues found. Yeah. Yeah. Similar to like the Rosvalet block trust. Okay. Like a Rosvalet to veramo. Same. Yeah. Yeah, just to remind everyone the hope is that the result of all of this produces, well, in, in the, the ideal case, it produces a, a test harness.  But in the minimum case, I feel like this documents will stand as a guide to help people to not only connect with us to know who to try to reach out to, to, you know, work with, but also to, you know, follow something that says, Oh, you know, I'm having that same issue and this is how we get past it. So. Okay. An integration guide, I guess, basically what I'm saying. Oh, any chance you can give me any access to the HackMD for the email. Yes. Thank you. We've got Bjorn and Rodolfo so far. Happy to invite others. Alex, what's your. Andre at roots ID. Yeah. Sweet. Thank you. I do here invite. Right. And if the way that I'm doing this is not as good as some other way, let me know because HackMD, I'm not as good at, I haven't used it as much so far. I've loved it, by the way, but. Okay. Well, I think this is fantastic. I feel like we're not scrambling, which is a good feeling. So thank you all for everything that you did over the last week because I was, I was much more concerned a week ago. I'm much less now, I think that we've probably shown enough that. Yeah, we won't. We're definitely way beyond embarrassing ourselves at our own event. This is excellent. Now I just want to make sure I really appreciate Victor's point of view and feedback because I want to make sure that all of this work hits home when people are at IAW with us. Yeah, to make it even easier for really newbie like me, if there's any, I don't know on this website, you already have a lot of description. It would be great to have like a more links to individual protocol and what the uniqueness of each one description or what they do. That'd be even better. Right. So from didcom.org, you can browse protocols and the protocols have the versions. And yeah, this gives kind of a description of all those protocols, but we definitely should do we highlight the version of each protocol that we use. I mean, essentially, the spec spells out some of that, but do we think we should list that here? We certainly said that we were going to have a table of protocols. So I think that making sure that people know what version is good. Let's see what we did here. Okay, our links look pretty good with the versions. Any thoughts on that? I do think it can be confusing just sending someone here, right? Okay, here's the problem. I mean, this is nice when I'm trying to look like, oh, you know, I know I'm looking up trust ping, for instance. Yeah, if you look at the CSCF landscape, which is pretty nice. I can drill down. So first of all, it's a table. And it'll be, of course, it'll be even nicer if it's a diagram, but the table is okay. So when you drill down, they go into the each individual project and give a lot of descriptions. And yeah, it'll be great to have a, ideally, yeah, like a diagram which groups on what, you know, what each area, you know, what the different protocols, different project do. And yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's helpful. Can you link me to the diagram that you're talking about for CNCF? Yeah. Thank you. This maybe hopefully that will inspire us. Is it the cloud native foundation or something like that? The sports Kubernetes. When I typed in CNCF, yeah, I came to the cloud native computing foundation, but I. Yeah. Okay. So. I think that's another hyper ledger project, right? There's more. It's Kubernetes basically. It's not just Kubernetes, but it's, yeah, I just posted that, that landscape. So if you, if you, if you drew down that. Yeah, it will give a, yeah, if you pick anyone on. I just pick anything. If you drew down, yeah, have a, what it does is actually automatically collect a lot of the information from like GitHub and fear. So, so you can tell what's going on with the project, how active it is. Yeah. A lot of good information. This is, this is cool. Definitely someone spent some time on it. So it will take time for us to catch up to this level. But I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Thomas this look from Nessus was talking about. Essentially. Yeah. A certification path for. For essentially the work that we're doing. So. Yeah, this is, this is hopefully our future. This is hopefully how awesome did come. You know, we'll become in whatever version it will be. Although this is, wow, this is such a big ecosystem. Yeah, maybe SSI actually needs this. Market cap on the start. Yeah. What's our market cap right now. Okay. Very good. I love it. I'm going to put this in the document as a. Even this one is still being worked on their efforts to do like diagrams. So focus on what area and then just kind of give workflow this way. Kind of have more intuitive. Like understanding of what's going on in the ecosystem and how the project is related. That was kind of good stuff. Yeah, very good. I mean, that diagram. So, yeah, I could imagine someone could spend their entire life working on that and it will never be finished. Yeah, the amount of drill down that you could do. It's pretty endless, I think. So that's great. Excellent. Thank you, Victor. Okay. Other thoughts. Let's see. We have 20 minutes. So. I guess I'll, yeah, I'll open it up to whatever someone wants to talk about or things that we need to discuss. We've got 10 days still demo or nine days still demo. Who's coming in on Monday for IWS or will everybody be there Tuesday morning, I should say, for the start of the. Yeah, I'm arriving Monday late night. So, okay. Okay. Same here. Yeah, I'll be there Monday night. Yeah, same with me. Okay. Yeah, I will have traveled the entire coast of California. So I'm getting into LA on Friday and then I'll travel up the coast and so I'll see you guys Tuesday morning. Going on highway one. Yeah, I think parts of it have washed away. So I'll have to do a little bit of a reroute at one point. But yeah, I'll get to. It's a pretty. Go around some mountains. I don't know what mountain range that is the Big Sur mountain range, but. I'll kind of go up and around Monterey and a little bit back down to see the Big Sur area. I've never done any of that. So I don't know what I'm in for. How long is it? We're moving like three hours every day. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah. Kids. No, no kids. We're going to have fun. No kids. So when our market cap is 2.1 trillion, then I, you know, I can afford to bring the kids along. Good. Okay. Anything else that people are looking forward to then for IW, let's kind of talk then about. Are you aware of any sessions related to did come? V2 that we think about like last. Last IW, there was the did come V2. OIDC for VC. Session, which I was new to the concepts of OIDC. So that was like a lot for me to take in, but essentially in that session, similar to what I saw Redolfo posts recently. I can't remember where you posted that Redolfo. Maybe it was in, actually, I think it was a GitHub commit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to talk about that just a little bit? Well, it was from Sam. So I was just adding, yeah. Okay. Links to the, yeah, to the podcast and to the current presentation. So it can improve that. It's part, it's going to be part of the. Good book. I can find some between did come and, and why DC. So some started that and I had some additional links. Good. But that we, yeah. Yeah, very good. In terms of, I was just thinking when we're actually doing the demo time. Let's see, just going down our list here. Yeah. So the roots ID will have three of us there. But perhaps we should kind of call out now what we're going to focus on. I mean, it's my intention to be. Moving between all of the groups and essentially videoing it. So that we can, you know, have our highlight reel. Redolfo, what will your focus be during the demo time? Will it be like the, the roots lab? Yeah, yeah, probably that one. Yeah. Okay. I'll be showing that with whatever other. Yeah, I think that, yeah, that will depend on some of the people who's approaching. Question they asked, right? I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I will have the roots ID lab with the iOS and Android and trying to, yeah, directly. Whatever it's on the table. Okay. And then Alex, what do you see for your. I'll have the, I'll have the Brahmo and the Prism one, I guess, depending on like who wants to demo with like is Tony like going to like sit there with us. That thing. Like, I guess I can use. Yeah, you can assume Tony's going to be using like on Salos chat. You know, Prism chat. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, maybe we can sit like like in pairs, maybe with the army and Tony and Alex, for example, and do that. Showing that there are two different actors or vendors playing. Maybe that may work. Do you think. Because so we think Nick will be there as well. Right. Yeah, I can chat with Nick. I can see if we can like do something else like together as well. And if that's the case, then. Yeah, like maybe you can do the one with Tony. Or yeah, we'll see. Yeah, I'll try with Nick today about like what he like how he wants to do it. Yeah. Okay. Like figure out the logistics and like the demo and like the demo flow and who's sending who to what and yeah. I didn't get the Brian, which is going to be there or not. Let's see. So I. I chatted him. He said that he couldn't make our meetings today. But it's okay. It sounds like he's going to try to touch base with us at IAW in person. Okay. Yeah. So, so, so we had mentioned pairs. Do we think that let's take somebody like Tony, for instance, do we think that Tony will be only showing his interaction with one other person. During our time, like as a pair, or do we think that he'll be showing interactions with multiple people? I mean, obviously that's going to get more complex. Right. Thoughts. What's that say again. I guess who else would be showing it with. I guess what I mean is let's say that the, let's say that the chat that Tony has or can work with against the block trust and it can also work with the roots, maybe multiple of our vendor instances. Who do we expect that Tony will be working with multiple connections or just repeatedly showing the same connection, but then talking to the fact that, oh, we also work with them and we work with them. Any thoughts on that? Certainly to keep it easy, I would think he would repeat the same demonstration over and over again. I, you know, we may have this, the, the Nessus dashboard. So that's another agent that you can run. Yeah. You can show with Alex and the Nessus, for example. Yeah, I don't know. Nessus is not the one I work with recently, but anyway, for the others. So, okay, so I'll ask the same question from the Nessus point of view, do you expect that multiple people will be showing their connections to Nessus or do you think that we'll have one person who, you know, one vendor that's doing connections with Nessus. I mean, let's obviously in the worst case scenario, let's say that we only had pairs of connections working. It seems from our chart here that we were much better than that. But if we only had pairs, obviously we would only do pairs. But because we're kind of beyond that, I'm just wondering from the actual demo standpoint, will it be like, hey, let me show you that I did a basic message with BlockTrust.  Nessus, also. Oh, I see, yeah. I don't know how it's going to be the dynamics on the table, but probably, yeah, I would say, for example, we are, we can try to explain with someone who approached that, that we can communicate. And then, okay, but also we can connect with Nessus. And we're showing that with the laptop that we both connect Nessus and explain maybe other people showing, and we can explain the same or keep the dialogue showing that, okay, we can connect with Tony as well. I don't know. That's where I think it's changed based on. Will you have also the Python notebook on a laptop? Yeah, right. Yeah, also Python notebook. And I think that, yeah, once we start talking and explaining to people based on the, you know, in the background, you explain different stuff and you say, well, what is, what we're doing that? What is the hard stuff on doing that? Why we need to do that, right? Why it's not, if you read the spec, but it's not working as expected every time. And I think that changed based on the, on who's on there. I think that they, they said it's going to be five minutes, but we know that that changed. Some people show to only two minutes and others for half an hour. Yeah. Okay, can I throw out there that for the Tuesday lunchtime that we do a pre connectathon, connectathon. I would love to see the dynamics kind of play out before it happens. So that we know, you know, because for one, one thing, you know, which things are we showing as emulators and simulators and which things are we showing on physical devices? All of that. Do we think that it's worthwhile on Tuesday? On Tuesday? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? How about you? Bjorn, do you think it's worth? Yeah. That's, that's great. Also, can I load your Android wallet on my phone? We need to be there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But this just opens more possibilities. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So also you can have the block trust wallet open. In a window. Next to Nessos. On one of your laptops. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. All right then. We all know what we're doing then for lunchtime on Tuesday. That'll be great and maybe. Since the demo time is after lunch on Wednesday. And tell me if we're over practicing here, but would you all want to, you know, group together at lunchtime prior to the demo and to kind of prepare and make sure everything's working. Yeah. With the food on the table. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last minute, the wrap ups, right? So something is inevitably going to go wrong. I think. Yes. Yeah, we'll find out what does work. Absolutely. Yeah. We can show that. Okay. Yeah. We're going to prep time. Okay. So essentially our lunches for the first two days are. Reserved. Very good. Okay. Can I. Hold this. That work. No. That did not work. I'm kind of double stars going on there. Whatever design that language. Well, anyways. Okay. Maybe I can underline it. Yeah. Okay. I think we're going to have a couple of minutes left. Just trying to think any more logistics through. We're able to practice. Then we'll have our demo time. By then we'll know who, you know, what each vendor is going to show in terms of one or more. Connections. I guess some. So then because we're going to show Nessus. During the demo. Because part of one of the things that I triggered the video idea was because we knew Thomas wasn't going to be there to show his Nessus stuff. But because we're showing it during the demo, do you think then. That recording our interactions with Nessus prior to IW is not necessarily. Yeah. Now, because we have this dashboard, I think it's better to show that. Like. Yeah. Showing under the workplace. Okay. And then. Yeah. Post IW will post a video that. Shows those interactions. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Make sure I didn't put anything about the video. I and W highlight video. Okay. So we had listed that as option or. What am I going to do with this? Let's see. We'll just say post. Okay. Any other thoughts? Okay. I think a great momentum. Here. And I'm looking forward to it. This is exciting. So. Great to see everybody. Thank you. And hopefully. If, if for those who can make it to the user group, the Diff did come. User group this afternoon. Because I think. Fabio and some others will be there and, you know, we can bring them up to speed on. Yeah. So next Monday, we won't have the call, right? Right. I won't be. Right. I wonder. Okay. I'll try to. Yes. I know who to contact and I'll have them remove it from the. From the calendar. Yeah. Good call. Okay. Great. Thank you, everybody. Great to see you. Thank you. Thank you.


So again, thank you, everyone. So we're going to spend a few minutes just talking about this with you guys, questions, comments, and they'll set up the chairs, we'll also get a few questions from the folks who've been watching online. So for those of you who came in late, you started with Kirkland and the Root Mechanicals. Come on up here first. Mechanicals for you and these guys. Talked like a kind of simplicity and honesty and optimism, which you guys were really rounding out. That's interesting, but that was the scene like that was the goal. I just appreciated the peek into your process. I was most thrilled by just seeing the three of you work and how you work, just fascinating. I wish, like, there were so many great companies in this room that just felt like we really just wanted to do this for a few days and just take a little sneak peek in that the way people work, because it's just fascinating to me. I love theater, I love theater, theater is great. It happened that we get to spend more time with each other's work another time, thinking at each other's work. Questions, comments from anybody here in the room? Yeah, back. So I'm very struck watching the process, how much freedom there is to play around, especially with movement and with non-verbal, non-textual elements. Can you give us some examples of the moment when language does enter back in? OK, interesting, great question. So the question of those people who couldn't hear him, he's struck by the freedom to work without the text. And then one is wondering what happens, but where's the moment or a describing moment when the text comes in? I guess for us, it's funny you say it comes back in, because I don't feel like we remove it. OK, what enters into it? Or enters in it, if it enters in it. I think of text gesturally. So someone says something, it's a gesture that comes from a character the same way they might exit a room or close a door or throw something. And so it's less about carrying information than it is a way of revealing character. And so the story for us of the event isn't really moved along through the text. It's a verbal text, any more than it would be from the mouse falling off of a ladder or something. So where it's appropriate, I think, is where it comes in. I think there's a certain moment in that little trio that you saw where they could have easily said something to the creature. And that was just a seed of something. And if we were to keep continuing that, who knows maybe it becomes one of them really wants to always park at one another or growl or say something. But maybe one's very verbal. So I don't think it's a rule to take it out. It's just who wants to come in one eventually. I would say that text enters the picture when we need the text to support the things that are going on on stage. So if we're fooling with lights or we've got a great moment going, and it needs some words to complement it or to enhance it, then that's it. I haven't seen the most part in our shows. Text is there right from the intro. But we use it, by the way, depends on the day. But it's there. The mic, I can tear it in the mic. Next question. Go ahead and keep it. You have one question. This is going to make me hard to get. Yes, here, second one. My question is curiosity about the length of time that you spend before you say, OK, this is it. Like the editing process and whether you gave yourselves a deadline to make the work final or how do you know it's done? You know, speaking specifically about city company, we grew up as a young company, actually within the regional theater system. And you get three weeks, maybe four or max, you make something, and then you try to figure out. That ain't a lot of time. So in our early life, we just started getting up fast, getting up fast, getting up fast, getting up fast. So the editing is happening on its beat. And it's sort of, I think actually, we're actually trying to slow it down now and see if we can find it one time and give ourselves a little bit more room not to nail it down the right way. That's obviously a very difficult question because it's so specific to each individual shot. But of course, the agency happened over a period of three or four years. Better project over a couple of years. Our project ended in labor over a couple of years. But the variations was four or five years of dipping in and coming out, dipping back in. The little bit we saw, the way we even approached the experimentation phase, it's just all those individual moments that we saw just six or seven months back there, in a matter of two minutes. And you're in there for a month, and you've got a wealth of information there that brings more material and it's just, yeah. And so the process of exploration and then going back and editing is months and years. So I was just curious, like, you gave yourselves or did you have a luxury of letting it go and then the extension of the question, of course, is do you feel like one or other if the other serves the more of them? I think sometimes too much time can kill it, in a way. But we kind of worked on the money and it goes out a little bit. Like, I feel like each project we've made has been a little bit more complex and it's theatrics and it's technicalities. And therefore, requires a little more money. And in general, I feel like the rule of thumb is that we work for at least a month, sort of for like a workshop, and then we will leave it, come back and do eight to 10 weeks leading up to a production, something like that. And then we know that that production is kind of a rough draft and we'll come back to it again, do another draft of something like that. But it's really rough, but that's something like that. I guess I'd say, I think over the next week, these days it seems like we'd like to set ourselves arbitrary deadlines and share a part of the work with other audience in some way. A little work-trucks production series. And then I'd also say it takes us about two years probably for like a short, it's kind of a trip. And then I'd also say I think that, I don't know how interesting we are being done. Like, every time we work on something, we do it again, I think it must be good. I just had a question, because earlier in the ninth Rant speak came up and you mentioned funding, I guess across the board, what have been some of the biggest challenges with getting people on board when you don't have a final piece and you have to release a process. And I guess some of the furniture and the terms are just biggest obstacles to getting them to be like, whether that's a good or a bad idea. We talked about that some of this week, a lot of the convening. I remember feeling like nobody knew who the rooming chemicals were in the sense that nobody will ever give us money because they don't trust us. And like, how do we get somebody to listen to us? And now I think it's more a question of just sort of saying what we're passionate about at the time of what we're doing. I think the hardest thing is getting people, I don't know if we want this, but once we can say it to somebody, we've already spent a lot of time working. And so like, what is that time when you're just like, how do we, I mean, I don't know if we want funding for this, but like the idea that like you wanna pay artists to go and conceive something together or the intention of a devise work with a company is a weird thing and it's an interesting thing. We usually get money, I get individual artist grants in Philadelphia, it's generally been what we do, Independence Combination in the Philadelphia Theater Initiative, really vital, huge supporters of Grant Handsworth. And then there's some individual contributions that we get more into towards production, but the grant writing process so far has been actually a really important part of the whole process because when you have to articulate the thought, for me that's like one of the most important parts is writing a grant. And oftentimes when you get in the dark about a project, what are we making? I'll go back to the grant, oh yeah, that's what we're gonna say. I don't even know that, it's so weird. And for Trey, oftentimes it's making the postcard and he's very visual and he'll conceive of a postcard, or images way early and it's crazy, we'll do like a photo shoot before we know anything and he's crazy about it, loves it and it really helps him, that's the way it becomes, so it really helps him. I think the most important thing is to communicate the best you can, the questions you're asking with your work, and it's not so much, I think the nuts and bolts of it that people wanna hear, it's not necessarily these exercises that people are gonna be motivated to get money to, do you know what I mean? And I can see this, whoa, you put thousands of dollars to be doing that. It's, what do you wanna say with your work? What, you know, with, for instance, when we were doing the Laren project, we felt like we were really asking like how can theater, and you're doing national dialogue, what's going on, and how do we deal with current events in the theater, what role did theater have in the current events and discussions, and you know, I think those are the kinds of questions that people kind of are excited about. I would say, the same thing as Jeff, I know that when Anne Bogart writes narrative, it's all about trying to articulate the vision of a piece that's incredibly useful for her. From my point of view, I've made one show in my company that I was in charge of, it was a dance theater piece with no text, and it was with the band, with the name of the local Rachel's, and I wrote a lot of grants, and I got no money for it, and I suspect it's not being a wordless, I think the name of the city was, but that's where friends came really on board, people who have past relationships with, sure I'll do the show, and I'll help you put it out. I'm very conscious of the fact that we've had all these people so long, including these gentlemen, but not alone these gentlemen, and what I'm gonna suggest is a reception in the lobby, and let's go ahead to the lobby, we'll collect any of the Twitter questions, and we'll ask them individually of you guys, whoever they were for, and we'll get those answers back, but let's, this group, go ahead and adjourn to the lobby, get a glass of wine, and enjoy each other's company, okay? Okay?