This 10th year of Daily Tech News show would not happen if it weren't for you. Thanks to every single one of you who supports the show, like Miranda Janell, Justin Zellers, Pepper Geesey and Bill Baggins. On this episode of DTNS, Meta connects us with a new VR headset, upgraded smart glasses and lots of AI plus what the FTC is up to with Microsoft. Yeah, still. And Hollywood writers get AI guidelines. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, September 27th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Prune, I'm Sarah Lane. From Salt Lake City, I'm Scott Johnson. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chay. Studio Prune, did you like take a bath?  But I like prunes. And you just like prunes. Prunes get a bad rep. Yeah, yummy.  You know what I'm saying? But otherwise, I'll have a prune. Stereotypes and they've been maligned over the years. They're fine. There's nothing. They are delicious. Prune positive. Yeah, indeed. Peepies. All right, let's start with the quick hits. Apple's eddy queue testified as part of the US versus Google antitrust case. Q was asked about Apple's Information Services Agreement or ISA, which makes Google the default search engine on Apple software like the Safari browser, Q negotiated the latest renewal of the deal back in 2016 and says there's not a valid alternative to Google. Apple chose Google because it was the best product. Anchors, smart home cameras, the ones they sell under their Ufi brand, the EUFY now offer cross camera tracking and video splicing, you know, like in the movies. So if you have multiple cameras, you can follow motion from one camera's view to the next and see it as one continuous video all spliced together. Feature works with Ufi's home base three hub. So you have to have that piece of equipment, the home base three hub. And it uses an on device algorithm to identify people and stitch those videos together. It's part of a free beta that you can use right now. And then they'll release it as part of their paid subscription in Q4. The Ufi home base three is available for $150. And they introduced a new line of cameras and spotlights as well, but the cross camera tracking will also work with older Ufi cameras. Well, as expected, Amazon has named former Microsoft executive Panas Panay as the new lead of Amazon's Devices and Services Division. Panay spent 19 years at Microsoft, most recently leading the Windows and Devices Division. He'll officially start at Amazon at the end of October. And the folks who work on the Echo devices said, Panos, yay. My gosh. Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo circulates that reports of iPhone 15 models overheating. Probably have to do with the new titanium frame, not the chip. A lot of people are like, the chip's overheating. Kuo says, chips probably fine. It's probably just not dissipating the heat fast enough. Kuo says titanium negatively impacts thermal efficiency and notes. There's also a reduced heat dissipation area in the iPhone 15. He does expect that Apple will address the issue with a software update. Well, one would hope. Multiple news outlets reported on their experiences with Mercedes-Benz's new drive pilot system coming to the 2024 S-Class and EQS sedans. It'll be the first level three autonomated driving system approved for use by the public in the US. Level three means that the driver doesn't have to pay attention at all times, but has to be ready to take over when needed. You can take your hands off the wheel, but you can't go to sleep. In essence, the systems will not will be will only be available and active in California and Nevada to start. In addition, they'll only be active at speeds less than 40 miles per hour while following a vehicle on dry, clear, well marked and pre-mapped roads. And LA freeway traffic at rush hour would be a great example of this. You might say, when would my area be a great example of this? Well, this is sort of phase one. Las Vegas traffic since it's also in the back. Awesome. Yeah. So you could watch YouTube with level three, but don't watch the chill beats YouTube or you'll fall asleep. That's good advice. Well, at its connect conference on Wednesday, Meta unveiled the Quest three headset offering improved performance for a higher price over the Quest two. The Quest three will go for five hundred dollars for the 128 gigabyte model and pivots from just VR to mixed reality. At least that's what the company is is doing this marketing wise. This is commonly known as XR. So when you see XR mixed reality is what they're talking about. Meta now refers to its headsets as gaming and productivity tools rather than just sort of for fun. The Quest three has 30 percent higher resolution, new lenses, faster Qualcomm chip, dual color pass through cameras. So that's the mixed reality stuff. A souped up version for six hundred fifty dollars has five twelve gigabytes of space. Preovers are opening now shipping on October 10th. I mean, these are pricier than the old Quest three. They're kind of evolutionary, not revolutionary. But I have to say that there's a lot of the hands on reviews came out like right along with the announcement. Everybody's fairly positive about these. Yeah, they seem they seem excited. I can't tell from some of the video. It's hard for me to tell what the difference is with VR. A lot of the times the whole history of VR, as we know, it is usually a technology. If you really want to appreciate what you're looking at, you kind of have to have it on your head. Videos don't really do it justice. But from what I can tell, this is definitely a bump from last time. The big question for consumers is, is it a, you know, double the price bump for the lowest entry model or not? And that's yet to be seen. But I think it looks great. Well, I think I think at this point, at least as far as, you know, key one of next year, we'll all be talking about the Quest three versus the Apple's Vision Pro. Very different price points. Vision Pro, by all accounts, is based on development. Let's figure out how to make this cool. You know, developer community. This is not for just the average consumer unless they have thirty five hundred dollars to spare. The Quest three is the Quest three is exactly for that. I am I am I am a Quest apologist for better or for worse. I love the Quest. I have been really interested in how the the the technology has sort of slowly but surely evolved. And and yeah, I think you're going to have to pay for something that is better than the Quest two, which was, by all accounts, a lost leader. Johandar in the chat wonders how XR is different from AR. It's basically just means you can do VR and augmented reality. And I think that's probably the differentiator with the Quest three, is that the Quest two could do the augmented reality pass through. But it was pretty grainy and it was it was it was not exactly black and white, but it wasn't color, right? The Quest three has a higher resolution pass through. It's not nearly as grainy and it can do full color. So I think you might see a differentiation there in what kind of augmented reality stuff the Quest three can do. Hence them emphasizing the XR nature. And the X really just means cross, right? Just crossover. Extended.  And this would be necessary for me for a lot of people never. You know, I use VR for exercise primarily and the crossover stuff is mostly so that I make sure I don't trip over my dog. But this is technology that I understand is going to make a lot of sense for people doing things besides, you know, putting on a headset and then going dark for an hour. That's, I think, what my big takeaway from Meta's announcement is like, we can still provide that for you on. But for anybody who just didn't really like the idea of full VR, now it's more of a lifestyle. Yeah, we're going to expand what we can do with that. And that's where they're going to try to compete with the Vision Pro. A few more notes coming out of the Connect keynote. Xbox cloud gaming coming to the quest in December. That's not XR.  Lego Brick Tales is interesting because it is a PC game, but they are making it tabletop. So they are taking advantage of the augmented reality for that. Also, a MetaQuest business platform launching in October. That's designed to offer Enterprise augmented reality apps that will be compatible with a lot of different business platforms, including Microsoft 365 that's coming to the quest later this year. And Meta talked a lot of connect about AI that chat bots are coming. We mentioned this on Monday to WhatsApp, Instagram and Messenger. They use something called the Expressive Media Universe to offer Dolly like capabilities so you can do a prompt to get an image. It's Meta's own custom made large language model. They said it's based on the core principles of Lama2, but it appears to be much more limited and it includes those 28 personas based around people like Mr. Beast and Snoop Dogg and Paris Hilton, etc. They also announced Meta's AI Studio. Let's make your own AI companions. So that's pitched at brands, not individuals. You know, if I'm craft cheese, I can make a chat bot that reflects my brand value as craft cheese and customer expectations that I'll know a lot about cheese. Alpha of that is available now and it'll start expanding next year. And you'll be able to edit images and create stickers in Instagram with text prompts. So restyle adds a filter based on a text prompt backdrop. Let's you change the background based on a text prompt real quickly before we get to the last part of the announcement, which is the sunglasses. What do you think of the AI stuff? I mean, personally, I think that it's surprising. We haven't already seen it integrated in. So it makes sense to me. We're going to hear this from everybody from here until the end of time. Our new thing also includes these AI things, whatever they end up calling it. The Instagram filter feels real, though. Like it feels like these are useful cases, by the way. And I don't actually decry these. I think these are a great idea. I think that the more the more intelligent interactions I can have with both my hardware and my software and my life, I'm happier to do that. So everyone wants to freak out and act like they're going to become sentient and all that, forgetting all of that. This is a good move for this device. Qualcomm also announced two new Snapdragon chips along with the hardware. So one of them is going into the Quest 3, the Snapdragon XR2 Gen 2. We mentioned that already. The other one is going into the Rayban Meta smart glasses. They're not Rayban stories anymore. They're Rayban Meta smart glasses. They're getting the Snapdragon AR1 Gen 1. This set of glasses has better on-device augmented reality processing. No heads up screen. So when we're talking about augmented reality, it means it can recognize something and then talk to you about it. The glasses have upgraded from a five megapixel to a 12 megapixel camera. Can live stream to Instagram and Facebook with that higher video quality. Software update next year will add things like landmark identification or sign translation so that you can look at something and say, what does that say? And it'll translate it into your language. They're available in really good styles, Wayfarer and headliner styles. They really do look like sunglasses pre-order now ship in October 17th, starting at two hundred ninety nine dollars for standard lenses. If you want polarized, that's three hundred twenty nine. If you want transition, it's three seventy nine. And then your prescription is a sliding scale on top of all of that. I continue to wonder how much AR glasses will sell.  Glasses would give different value, but there's a lot of this is your personal style thing that you have to buy into in order for this to work. Wayfarer's cool personal style, but not for everybody. And I just don't know how you have somebody wear something on their face that doesn't have that many options that you're going to get a lot of people to buy. Yeah, it is kind of a hoping that one or a few sizes fit all. My my my thinking is there's there's a future where I'm adding something to a pair of glasses, a pair of prescription glasses, and I'm clicking it into them and they're modular and now those become smart glasses. And that stuff is small enough that it's not really sticking out. Like there's a lot of ways this technology could head. This is a decent step into that world. And I'm it's exciting to watch this particular aspect of of AR evolve. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to get there too. I just I'm like, you know, it's a tough sell for a lot of people. I think it's I think it's smart not to put the on-screen for these because they keeps the price down, keeps the expectations down. But I'm with you, Sarah. It also keeps the intended market down, right? How many people are really going to want that? Like, I might say this is my exact style. Sorry, I think you should leave reference there. But for a lot of other people like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Well, real quickly, in other hardware related to AI news, the information sources say that Sam Altman at Open AI has been working with Apple former designer Johnny Ive on hardware. We don't really know anything else about it. That's all we know. The Verge notes that Altman worked with Thomas Meyerhofer in the past on the orb for Worldcoin Meyerhofer, also a former Apple designer. And Altman invests in Humane, which is run by former Apple employees developing a wearable AI device. So something something coming out of there. You know, the the movie her starring Joaquin Phoenix and with the voice of Scarlett Johansson is often brought up in situations like this, like, oh, remember, you know, and like the guy fell in love with the AI type thing. But I feel like this idea, at least, you know, you know, just not knowing a whole lot of what's going on. If there if there was a sort of place that you could go and talk to AI and get information and get smarter and have them help.  That is interesting and not really anything that anyone else is doing right now. I mean, Amazon would beg to differ. They basically say we're putting a large language model into Echo. You can sit there and talk to it all day long. You don't even have to put it on your head. 100%. But I think, you know, Amazon could also be accused of being a little behind the game. As far as AI stuff is concerned. And that's why they're using Anthropics AI and not developing their own, which is probably a smart move. The USFTC has not given up on evaluating the Microsoft Activision Blizzard merger. They have a dream and they're not letting go of it. It's a bit thorny. Here's what's happening. The UK is still in the final stages of approving the deal that's expected to happen. October 18th is still the new extended deadline for the deal to get done. And to catch you up on the FTC, yes, it tried and failed in July to get the courts to prevent the deal from closing and it lost. So it withdrew its administrative challenge. That's its internal investigation. And its appeal of that preliminary injunction isn't going to be heard until December 6th. So everybody thought, well, that's that. Well, that's not that. The news today is the FTC has refiled for its administrative procedure, which will take place 20 days after the appeals court rules. So sometime in either December or January, this is an internal procedure for the FTC. So if they were to win that case with their own internal administrative judge, they can issue a cease and desist to unwind the merger, which will be closed by that time. And Microsoft can appeal that cease and desist. And then the FTC would have to go back to federal court to enforce its decision where it has already lost. It's a long shot. FTC just just doesn't want to give this up. Yeah, they seem like they're almost enjoying it. They want to keep toying with it or something. I don't know what's going on with that. But it feels like, I don't know, people I talk to on the ground over there at Activision Blizzard are both at the same time hopeful that this goes through without naming any names. And also some of them are certain that it's going through. And I don't know how it doesn't at this point. This just feels like another weird delay that will be kind of fruitless. It's not even a delay, though. That's the thing, right? Microsoft's going to close. It's not going to do anything unless 15 unlikely things happen. Yeah. And that's just it just seems like a waste of whatever resource is being spent doing it. It seems like a waste of that. And I think that's probably just money. So so I don't know. I wish they would knock it off, but also at the same time, I understand that, you know, you have to you go through all the venues you have to go through. If you're serious about a thing, it's like copyright law, except this, you know, this is the government speaking. But but if you're going to try to make your point, you got to make it all the way till all your stuff's exhausted. So I guess exhaust yourselves, but it sounds to me like this thing's going through one way or the other. Speaking of going through Chris Metzen, Scott, friend of yours, one time lore master of World of Warcraft is returning to Activision Blizzard. Come heller high water to create the next generation of adventures in World of Warcraft. He retired from Blizzard back in 2016. Folks might remember returned as an advisor in 2022. Now coming back full time. So, Scott, you and Chris, your your buds, you have a good relationship. Are you are you excited about this? I am. It's actually nice that it finally came out officially because I've known about this for a really long time and I didn't want to blow it and drop the bomb on the show sometime when I wasn't supposed to. So I've been kind of walking on eggshells, not to accidentally reveal it. But it isn't exactly a secret that he'd been back there for a while. But what his actual role would be, ultimately, how much front facing public stuff we get out of Chris, that was all a little bit unknown. It's important to note here that he's going to be specifically focused 100 percent on the Warcraft team. That means World of Warcraft and anything connected to Warcraft. And that means other games that are either unannounced or some of the stuff that already exists like their new mobile game coming out and, you know, Hearthstone may fall under this under this. But really, that's the focus where it used to be. He was in charge of all franchise development over at Blizzard. That meant every game they had under the roof. So this is a very laser focused thing. I can tell you, it sounds like they have some really cool stuff going on. I think Warcraft Warcraft fans have every right to be excited about this. And we'll learn more at BlizzCon where there's a very good chance you'll see him on stage again first time since 2016, I want to say, 17, maybe. And he'll probably have a lot to say about what they've been working on. So it's very exciting stuff for Blizzard right now. Another photo of confidence that everything's going to be fine at Activision BlizzCon to see Metson. He wouldn't go back there if he didn't think this was all going to work out. I can tell you that that is 100 percent true. Chris, Chris was retired for a reason. It wasn't, you know, I'm not going to get the details here, but for him to go back and to take the reins of something like this meant that it had to be right. And I'm I'm sure that that's the case. So it's it's people should be excited. I'm genuinely excited and I haven't subbed the game in eight, nine months. This means I will probably get back in when when we start to hear what's going on. Well, folks, real quickly, if you liked that Experiment Week episode of A.I. Named This Show, good news, it's a full on show. Lots of episodes out already each week. Tristan Jutra and Teja Kastodi wade through the hype and the doomsaing and keep you informed about what's real regarding the world of artificial intelligence. Go look for A.I. Named This Show in a podcatcher near you or at A.I. NamedThisShow.com. The Writers Guild of America and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers have reached an agreement. You probably heard about this among the agreed two terms are rules governing the use of A.I. tools. Here's the gist. If A.I. tools are used to create material within a script, a WGA writer, maybe somebody who prompted the material gets the credit. You can't give the credit to an A.I. That's that's that's the agreement. A.I. cannot be credited as a source. A studio also can't tell a writer to use A.I. tools or even what A.I. tools to use. Yeah, and companies that writers are working for have to disclose if any materials that were given to a writer were generated by A.I. Companies may use writer materials to train their own models, but the WGA reserves the right to step in if it determines training violates the agreement or law. In other words, the WGA can put a stop to the training if it feels off. Aside from A.I. guidelines is the fact that streamers must now share streaming data with writers. This would apply to many people in this audience, probably, so that they know just how well the projects that the writers have worked on have done designed to offer increased royalty payments. Yeah, I think the A.I. part of this got more attention than it deserved. This is just my opinion. But I always felt like it was a pretty easy thing to come up with some rules around. Don't give a credit to A.I. Let the writers have control over the tools. Let the writers use the tools. Don't ban. There was talking about banning A.I. from these are all reasonable things. I think I think it's clear from this agreement that the fight, the real fight was over the royalties for streaming and the sharing of data and how many writers can be in a room and they they solved all those too. Yeah, I think it's Tom said it really well on a brief segment this morning on TMS and we're reiterating it here, but just made a great point about how a lot of these hot button issues like A.I. being used in the writing process just became kind of a propaganda point. And not just for the writers. I mean, it just seemed like it was this hot moment of like, well, A.I. changes the whole thing. We need these strikes more than ever because of A.I. A.I. seem to be at the pinnacle of all of it. And at the end of it, it's pretty reasonable what they want to do. Like it's pretty straightforward. I don't think anyone had to make major crazy concessions on the A.I. front. And if they did, you know, we're probably never going to hear about it. But this just seems like a good reasonable thing. It gets revenue back where it should be. They have three more years to work under a new contract that I'll agreed on. None of this has any impact on well, maybe it has some impact, but no impact immediately anyway on the actor strike that's still going on. And you have the potential of the video game performers and actor strike looming, they've all they voted overwhelmingly to strike. So they have to come up with either an agreement there really quick or strikes will happen. So still a lot of this going on. But at least the writers can get back to the table and we can get our talk shows back and, you know, some of the stuff that was maybe. Oh, Scott, I know you're such a morning talk show guy.  But yeah, I don't I don't really see it. You know, what struck me as I think all of these new terms make sense. Nothing about this seems crazy out of whack, anything. I just wonder how many and maybe it's because of, you know, my own inability to use chat GPT to help my job day to day. I mean, trust me, if I could, I would. I just don't think that it actually helps my day to day job. It might help your day to day job totally depends on what you're doing. In fact, just the other day, somebody, you know, I was talking about writing up a contract and they said, why don't you just use chat be GPT? And then, and then, you know, and then and then go from there. I was like, oh, wow. I've never even thought about that. I think that there are a lot of writers where this is not even going to be an issue at all, never has never will. But it's good to have these these these these laws as it were in place. Yeah, I think I think the bigger the bigger role for AI is helping the writers when they're like, you know, I just need some ideas. I need I need to lay out a scenario. I've got like the tedious part of script writing, like maybe some formatting or something that I want the tools to use. And I'm glad that this agreement contemplates that and says, yes, they are allowed to use those. You can't tell them they have to use them, but they get to use them. And no, the studio execs can't tell chat GPT come up with scripts and replace the writers, which I don't think was ever going to happen anyway. But now it's on paper that it can't. So there you go. And did. Well, should we thank Scott or I don't know, Sarah, do you think you did a good good enough job? Oh, you know, Scott, yeah, week after week, you do a really good job. You know, I'm always trying to talk you for something and I just can't find anything you're like an AI yourself. Thank you for being on the show. Let folks know where they can keep up with the rest of your work. Well, there is good news, everyone. I have a show called Core on Thursdays. It's actually Friday this week. But it's a weekly show about video games and it's not just, hey, what do we play in? It's like the big issues. So we are going to tear apart this medicine news in a way that we don't have time for here today. We're going to really go deep in what it might mean to have, you know, one of the one of the creators of the Warcraft franchise coming back to the roost and doing something. If you want to hear that big blown out discussion, we'll be doing that. And we'll be talking about Starfield or this crazy idea that cyberpunk after three years of release is actually in 10 out of 10 shape now somehow three years later. We'll talk about that all kinds of stuff in that zone. So if that interests you at all, come check us out. Core wherever you get your podcast or you can find it all directly at frogpants.com slash core. Now, it's free preview week. Everybody's getting the full show. So I would normally say patrons stick around, but everybody stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet, CNN Max is live. The last of the US streamers to put live news in its app. It's launched in beta. It's a second pass at premium news, although unlike CNN Plus, it's not a separate thing you have to pay extra for. It's just right in there in your max subscription. And we'll talk about it. Stick around. Just a reminder, we do the show live. Did you know you can catch this show live money through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern twenty hundred UTC. Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We're back tomorrow talking about lab grown embryo models with Dr. Nicky Ackerman joining us. Don't miss it. This show is part of the frog pants network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.


I'll switch to testify. Okay, we're gonna move into work session now. I would ask that, could you try to get her on the phone while council, could you try to get her on the phone? I'd like to ask council, Dexter Johnson, legislative council, I know you've had opportunity to reflect and research on this issue. And do you have a recommendation for the legislative council committee at this time on this copyright issue that's properly before the committee? Thank you, Mr. Chair. And let me begin by frame working what it is you will be acting on. ORS 171.275 Statutorily authorizes the committee to, but does not require the committee to copyright materials, copyright the organized statute, those parts of the organized statute Thank you. that are capable of being copyrighted. And that has been the position of the committee since 1953. However, in light of recent technological developments, in light of what the witnesses have described today, well, and in light of the changes in copyright law coming out of the feist decision that witnesses have described. And also one other thing you should note, because of the complexity of describing what it is you're copyrighting and the considerable public interest in having open access to the law, it is the office's recommendation that you going forward to disclaim that copyright and allow the ORS to be available publicly both continuing to sell the printed volumes, but otherwise available to the public without copyright restriction. Recognize representative Dave Hunt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So to get a motion on the table for discussion consistent with that recommendation, I move that the legislative council committee disclaim all copyright in the organized statutes and direct the legislative council to take no action to enforce any claim of copyright in the organized statutes. All right, we have before us a motion that reflects the recommendation legislative council. It's now time for us to have a discussion. Any discussion representative Jenny Burdick, please. Senator Jenny Burdick, I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will support this motion. I think it's a good motion, but it did occur to me some of the discussion was about the taxpayer paying for the ORS or whether we're gonna be getting, whether we're doing right by the taxpayer on this. And it occurred to me as I listened to some of the discussion of how this material is gonna be used on some of these sites. It is a legislator who represents 115,000 people. It will be very helpful to me to be able to go into a database and in a subject area I'm drafting legislation on and being able to tell very quickly what other states do. Senator Brown. Yes, Mr. President. Could you sort of go slow out there? You're blowing up the phone on us, please. Could you sort of go slow? Thank you. Sure. And so it'd be very helpful to be able to go to one place, see what other states are doing, see what the case lie is both here and elsewhere. So I think that there are gonna be other benefits to the taxpayers if you look at the issue more broadly. Thank you. Further discussion? Yes, Representative Rosenbaum, please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do support this motion. I did have a question for Dexter. I wanted to know if assuming passage of this motion that this date or legislative council would be pursuing any other kind of licensing agreement, whether it's a Creative Commons license, a traditional license or any of these other methods that have been described by the witnesses today. Mr. Chair, Representative Rosenbaum, no, the effect of this motion would be to not, thereafter, we would not be pursuing any further licensing range with any commercial user, commercial website operator as well. Do I follow up, Mr. Chair? Sure. I guess my concern continues to be whether then in the public domain are going to be versions of these statutes that are less than helpful to the public because they are presented in a way that really is not. I mean, I guess I'm getting closer to this. There is some creativity in commentary on them, but nonetheless, the statutes are the statutes. They exist in a form that we put them out, and that is their official version. So is there gonna be any means in your view for the public to know that what they're looking at is the official most useful version if they try to rely on it? Representative, the office will explore with information systems and the technology folks here at the legislature about this MD5 technology and other digital signature requirements and see what feasibility there is in rolling that technology out. In addition, certainly the office will, to the extent necessary, ensure that they are not insured but have discussions with the Oregon Judicial Department and the court rules and ensuring that there still is a distinction between the official version of the RRS, which the Council Committee will produce and that that continues to be the official version for formal action. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator Brown, are you familiar with the motion that is now before us? I don't know if you were on when the motion was made. Yes, I am. Do you have any questions about the motion that's before us, Senator Brown? I do not. Thank you. Yes, Representative Hunt, please. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the one other piece following up on Representative Rosa Bombs' question that came up in Mr. Forsythe's testimony is, and Dexter promised he'd look at whether, in fact, it is illegal right now to publish inaccurate versions. It doesn't seem like it's been an issue much thus far, but that may be one legal route we may be wise in taking and ensuring accuracy.  I think this is the way to go. I am, frankly, largely persuaded by the point that Mr. Massey made related to, if we don't take this action, we're gonna be exposing ourselves and taxpayers to risk on the lawsuit side of the equation, which is about the last place I wanna be spending money is defending us in a lawsuit. But I do continue to think that we need to look very carefully at ways that we are protecting the taxpayers. My frame of reference on this, working in marine transportation, my day job, if you are dredging sand on the Columbia River, that's considered public land. And if you use it, if you're a city or a county or a nonprofit, you use that sand, there's no cost for it. But if you're using it for profit, if you're selling it for profit, you pay a feedback to the state. And it seems like there's gotta be some way, I mean, it's a more difficult issue, perhaps in the technological world than it is in when you're dealing with a physical asset, like sand out of the bottom of the river. But I still think we need to continue to monitor this, so we're not expending significant amounts of money to create, you know, formatting for something that then someone is going. And as Representative Richardson said, gaining commerce from that. But for now, I think this is the only way we go. Thank you for the discussion. Representative Richardson, please. I'd just like to say that the motion deals with the copyright aspect of the law and it certainly doesn't preclude doing other things to protect the authenticity and veracity of our statutes. And I certainly support any movement that makes the laws of Oregon more transparent and more available to the general public. And I'm excited about the ability we already have to research digitally. And in my practice, we haven't spent $2,300 a month. Actually, we've never spent that much, but we haven't spent a lot of money since we've had access to open source information about statutes and other aspects of law. And I think that this only will expand that access and I think that's a good thing. Thank you. Would the committee clerk please call the roll on the motion is before us. And the motion is that the legislative council committee disclaim all copyright in the Oregon revised statutes and direct the legislative council to take no action to enhance any claim of copyright in the Oregon revised statutes. Aye. Representative Richardson. Aye. Senator Brown. Aye. Senator Burdick. Aye. Senator Nelson. Aye. Representative Pudge. Aye. And co-chair Clark. Yes. The motion is received a majority vote of the house members on the legislative council committee and a majority members of the senate members legislative council committee. Therefore, the motion is carried. Anything further to be discussed?


Coming up on DTNS, Tim Stevens tells us what to expect from electrical vehicles in 2021. Google employees try to unionize and can CES work as a virtual event. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, January 4th, 2021. In Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood Adjacent, I'm Sarah Lane. And living slightly in the past is Roger Chang, the show's producer. Well, joining us as you just heard, Editor-in-Chief, CNET Roadshow, Tim Stevens. Welcome back. I love kicking off the new year with you on Daily Tech News show every year. I love it too. Thanks so much for having me. This is a great tradition. It's been great. What do we say? Seven years now? So congratulations on all the amazing stuff you've done over that time. It's really been great to watch. Oh, thank you, Matt. It's always good to have you. We should have you on the rest of the year. We shouldn't limit it. But I know everybody gets busy. You've got my number, man. Yeah, I know. I know. But yeah, let's let people know if you want to hear more of us chatting about what we were doing over the holidays, some of the tech stuff we might have gotten, get that wider conversation, a good day internet, patreon.com, slash DTNS. Let's start the new year with a few tech things you should know. UK Judge Vanessa Beretzer of Westminster Magistrates Court ruled that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange cannot be extradited to the United States to face trial on charges of violating the Espionage Act. The judge ruled that extradition would be unjust and oppressive, citing that Assange's mental health would put him at extreme risk of suicide if extradited to the U.S. The judge rejected Assange's defense that the charges were an attack on press freedom, saying that the U.S. brought the case in good faith. In 2019, Assange was charged with 17 counts of violating the Espionage Act, resulting from the publication of documents provided by former U.S. Army Intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning. Tech crunches sources say the Indian social network Share Chat is in advance talks on a new funding rather than it would include new investors Google and Snap, as well as an additional investment from Twitter, who already invested in them before. This series e-round would reportedly be more than $200 million, Google investing a bunch. Executives at Share Chat have said it's growing exponentially with its short video app, Moj, M.O.J., having 80 million monthly active users as of September 2019.  The Wall Street Journal sources say that the company is nearing a deal with Roku for its content catalog. Quibi's content would reportedly be added to Roku's free ad-supported Roku channel streaming service.  Yeah, good thing. Research note by analyst Ming-Chi Quo, obtained by MacRumor, says Apple may debut its yet unreleased air tags item trackers. Quo's like, no, at this time, it's really going to happen. Previously, rumored augmented reality device is going to be coming this year. A few other things in 2021. Quo also noted new AirPods, more Apple Silicon Macs, which I think we all expect, and Apple's first devices with many LED displays are among the new products Quo expects. Well, as far as products that probably are real, Samsung sent out invites to its latest Galaxy Unpacked event on January 14th at 10 a.m. Eastern time. Taglined, Welcome to the Everyday Epic. The teaser video appears to show a smartphone camera module. Good thing there wasn't a common there. Or it would be like a tease at Epic Games. Welcome to the Everyday. You're right, Epic. Good to see you. All right, let's get to talking about that big story of January 4th, 2021 unionization in tech. Around 227 alphabet workers have announced they are joining together in an effort with the communication workers of America to form a union at Google for both full-time employees as well as contractors. The organization's efforts will be chaired by Google software engineers Pearl Kool and Chewie Shaw with union representatives, of course, to eventually be elected by the members. And a New York Times op-ed announcing the union, Kool and Shaw cited Google's contract with the Pentagon to use AI and Project Maven, the firing of AI researcher Tim Nick Gebru and forced arbitration for claims of sexual harassment as alphabet management, ignoring the concerns of the workers. Those are their examples. They also emphasized the need to bring benefits to contract workers and the payout packages that executives got when they were accused of sexual harassment. Previous tech industry unionization efforts include Kickstarter and Glitch, Google contractors with HCL technology in Pittsburgh are also unionized, tech company cafeteria workers in the Bay Area are unionized. So this has been a growing movement, but this is by far the biggest effort yet. The U.S. National Labor Relations Board filed a complaint against Google in December regarding interfering with employees' rights to organize, which could loosen things up a little bit, but that was maybe a signal that this was coming. The next step for the alphabet union effort is to get recognition from alphabet. You go to the company and say, Hey, will you recognize our union efforts? Now, the company can voluntarily do that or force it to have an election, which is what Kickstarter did. And that Kickstarter union took about 10 months to get recognized because of that. However, the alphabet union is not seeking federal ratification through the NLRB. That means they're not going for collective bargaining rights, which is maybe a little less adversarial. We'll see how Google reacts to that. If successful, the alphabet union would become part of CWA local 1400, alphabet told several press outlets, quote, we'll continue engaging directly with all our employees, which I interpreted to mean we're still figuring out how to respond to this. Big, big deal here. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big deal. I mean, when you, you mentioned Kickstarter and the fact that there was some success there as far as unionization, alphabet is not that kind of company.  And the fact that a very small amount of alphabet workers, at least on, you know, on record are saying we want to do this is one thing. But, uh, I don't know, I, I feel like sure the company will figure out what's best for the company, but based on what it's gone through over the last year, uh, and, you know, years prior, as far as being, you know, too big to fail type of a thing, the idea that the company would push back on employees who have in many cases, pretty good reasons to say, here's some discrimination stuff that we've faced. Here's where the company has not listened to employees that we've, uh, made note of. And here's why we think this is a good idea for the benefit of the people who are keeping this company going has a lot of merits. Yeah, for sure. I totally agree, Sarah. I don't think that Google really has any leg to stand on when it comes to pushing back on this. There's been so much negative PR, uh, around all the moves that you mentioned, Tom, uh, just seemingly very short-sighted initiatives at Google and changes in policies that have been really negatively reacted internally and externally. Uh, and, you know, I've been a manager for a long time now at a lot of different companies, some of which are unionized and what you're not. And, and this is always kind of the, the final symptom of a company that's, that's not listening to or not able to react to their employees. And ultimately, you know, this step, it's, to me, it's kind of sad not that employees are taking power. I think that's a good thing, but it's sad that, that they had to take this step to do so. Um, because this, you know, this may help bring more people to the table when they're having discussions about these sorts of issues. Um, but ultimately it's going to formalize things and potentially slow things down quite a bit more. Um, so I do hope that there is a positive resolution out of this. I do hope that if nothing else, uh, Google officers are standing up a little bit more straight in these negotiation meetings going forward. Um, but ultimately it is kind of sad that, that, that Google wasn't able to open those lines of communication in a, in a better, more, more friendly way that they had to kind of take this step. Uh, that's, that's a bit unfortunate. Yeah, this is precedent setting too. Uh, how this plays out will, will sort of set the tone for a lot of other companies, uh, that have been talking about the employees of those companies anyway, talking about whether they should unionize the need to unionize Kickstarter was, was the first to go and sort of I think got people talking about whether they could or should. Uh, this is going to say how difficult will it be? Uh, this, this will show you what you could expect. And, and from both the employee side as well as the, the company side, uh, Facebook, Amazon, uh, you know, there's a lot of unionization talk around Amazon are going to look at this and say, okay, how do they react? Uh, and, and when they react, what effect does it have? And what can we learn from that, uh, in the future? I hope that the learnings internally aren't just about how do we handle our employees wanting to unionize, but there's also some learnings about how do we teach our employees to be better managers?  And so you have a lot of people who are fairly inexperienced managing, you know, a lot of people doing a lot of things. Uh, and ultimately, I think that, that's probably where you need to look to find a lot of the issues that, that, that these employees are trying to fix and feeling forced to go into the union, because ultimately they weren't able to get the communication open. They weren't able to get what they needed that their managers ultimately were letting them down. And that's a very unfortunate thing. So, you know, definitely, I think Google is going to have some very important steps and decisions to make as they recognize the unionization of their employees. But I hope that other companies don't just look at how Google reacts to the formation of the union, but they also look back six months, 12 months and, you know, 24 months at all the missteps that were made along the way, so that they can train their employees a little bit better about how to make sure that everyone is feeling like they have a seat at the table. Well, let's talk about Windows. How do we all feel about Windows? A job, I'm a union. I don't do Windows. Well, you might after this story, a job listing for a software engineering role at Microsoft's Windows core user experience team referred to a quote, sweeping visual rejuvenation of Windows experiences to signal to our customers that Windows is back. The reference to sweeping visual rejuvenation was later removed, but it was there initially. The posting seems to confirm what Windows central sources said back in October about a planned UI overhaul code named Sun Valley, which would update the start menu, the Action Center, the File Explorer and built in apps to make the UI more consistent, as well as provide better tablet optimizations. Sun Valley is reportedly scheduled to ship as part of Windows 10 cobalt in Q4 of this year, 2021. The rejuvenation reportedly isn't a completely refreshed UI, rather a more consistent application of Microsoft existing fluent design. Yeah, I mean, we could get caught up into why they decided sweeping visual rejuvenation shouldn't be in that job description. I'm sure that sounds like plastic surgery. I don't know. It's just yeah, it may be some expectations setting involved in there or whatever. But I think no matter what, all this stuff, the leaks back in October and this job posting point to the fact that since Panos Panai took over in October last year, Windows is focused on tightening things up and kind of finally getting out of that Windows 8 awkward phase that it had where it was kind of trying to be a tablet OS, but also a desktop OS at the same time. And I think all Windows users would like that, would like them to finally get that that nice and streamlined. So I'm I'm positive about this. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, I'm as well. I'm a Windows user using Windows right now. And I think the past has a really great eye for design in general. So I think that'll help. But really, all that I want is a better integration. As you mentioned, Tom, it's always been this kind of they made a really big push to try to make Windows tablet friendly. And then they realized that ultimately they're really there weren't that many consumers using Windows on a tablet anyway. So they rolled a lot of that back. And now you've got the sort of thing where you do you try to change your audio settings, for example, you kind of get this really simple tabletified version. But if you actually want to do anything seriously, you have to hop over to the control panel, which looks suddenly like old Windows. If all I get out of this is a single unified control panel that is easy to use that doesn't have to be jumping around five different places to enable my network adapter. I'll be very happy. I really don't care what it looks like. Yeah, I think sweeping visual rejuvenation is probably overstating. We're gonna make all the settings panel look the same, which I don't know, maybe why they decided to, you know, and maybe it does mean that to a UX designer, right? Like, oh, yeah, that's a sweeping rejuvenation. Whereas to us, it's like, no, that's just something we wish you would have done a long time ago. You made some circle squares. It's cool though. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, this was a job posting. So they got to kind of make it sound interesting. You know, they were trying to attract talents here. So it's not just us. They're speaking to UX people, right? They're speaking in UX ease. Well, a new year might mean some new form factors for technology. Tom's guide passing along a report from Taiwanese United Daily News that Apple reportedly commissioned two prototype shells from Foxconn for foldable displays. Now, this is a very low reliability source. Also, even if it's true, it just means that Apple commissioned some prototypes doesn't mean they're even going to do this. But one would be a booklike design like the Surface Duo and the other a more standard smartphone design that would fold in half, kind of like the Motorola Razr or the Samsung foldable phone. A December 31st, Apple patent filing also shows a device that folds both in and out, kind of a combination of the Galaxy Z Flip and the Huawei Mate X. So yeah, there could be something in the works. I'm sure it'll be a long time if and when we ever see it. But that's interesting to note. And Google doesn't want to be left out. They've got an FCC filing showing they plan to expand the devices that use radar based solely technology. Unlike a patent, an FCC filing means we're trying to get this product approved. It's a real product. The filing details a new interactive device with a screen that supports a 60 gigahertz frequency used by solely along with ZigBee smart home protocols. It's not clear if this will be another Google Home product or a Nest Secure successor or an entirely new product line. Sully first debuted on the Pixel 4 and was added to the new Nest thermostat back in October and back in September. Google's Rick Osterloh told the Verge that despite solely not being included in the Pixel 5, it would be quote used in the future. So apparently the future is now. Well, I mean, earlier in the show, we talked about Ming Qi Quo's ideas of what Apple is going to come up with this year. I think Apple is really focused on those M1 and M1 successor chips for a variety of products. There may be some AR stuff that we're seeing. A foldable device probably not happening anytime soon, but I'm sure the company is working on it like other companies are. Tim, I know normally around this time of year, we'd all be packing up for CES to look at some foldable devices that may or may not be vaporware. Is there anything that stands out to you as as as really becoming a frontrunner going forward? As far as foldable devices go. Yeah, it still seems like really Daisy and I still, even though we're on Gen 2 or even Gen 3 and some of these products, it still feels like we are kind of in the beta testing phase to see how what the longevity of these is like, how people are going to use them. I think it's fascinating technology that everybody wants because it just seems so futuristic. But I mean, reading the story before we came on, I remember back when I used to run Engadget a hundred years ago, all of the supposed leaked pictures of folding iPhones and things like that that we used to laugh at because they were so preposterous at the time. You know, we knew it was coming at some point. And I still, you know, it seems inevitable, but it still feels like we're at least a year or two away from an actual folding iPhone. So I think it's great. But I still think it's right now toys for very early adopters. And I'm really looking forward to that first truly mainstream foldable device because I want to own one. Yeah, I think, you know, Apple traditionally has been the one that comes to the category when it's ready, not when it's early.  That said, I'm a little more bullish on foldable than I was. I feel like we're finally, with the Galaxy Z Flip particularly, we're getting form factors that people look at and want, whether they can afford them or not, it's a whole different situation right now, right? But I see them in TV shows and movies now. And I feel like people are like, oh, that's kind of cool. Maybe maybe I would like that if the price came down. Yeah, as far as Google and Soli goes, yeah, I think Google I think Google is not going to abandon motion detection. It's just trying to find a home for it. So we'll see what they come up with. Yeah, I hope so. Soli technology has huge potential, you know, and I think actually it would work really well on a smart home device because if you think about the interfaces on these things with small displays or even no displays, kind of hard to go between a thermostat and smart lights, that kind of thing, the ability to control these with gestures and more advanced gestures could actually be really interesting. So I hope they can figure it out. Hey, folks, joining the conversation about all this stuff, what's your favorite form factor? Tell us in the Discord, which you can join by linking to a Patreon account at patreon.com slash DTMS. Well, we hear the term EV all the time, especially when it relates to cars, electric vehicles becoming more and more mainstream. And with Tim Stevens on the show with us today, we just couldn't not mind his brain about what kind of EV trends we may see in 2021 or beyond. So Tim, what is coming down the road? Oh, lots of good stuff. It seems like every year, next year is going to be the big year for EVs. But I really feel like 2021 is going to be the year where we see a lot of really interesting products coming to market that people can really feel good about purchasing. We just talked about how foldable displays are approaching mainstream, but you still have some compromises there when it comes to cost and durability. We're kind of getting past that point with EV now where EVs are approaching the same price as a normal car. They have range in excess of 200 miles, which is the point where you can kind of stop having range anxiety in cars that look good and are fun to drive. I'm really bullish this year about Ford's Mach E. That was the product that made a lot of people angry last year because they called it the Mustang. A lot of people are saying, well, it's a crossover SUV. It can't be a Mustang. But I hope that everyone's moved past that because this looks like a really good entry into the EV market. Prices starting in the $30 to $40,000 range, ranges of EV battery life, upwards approaching 300 miles, still falling short of what Tesla offers. But in a car that you can go and theoretically buy at any Ford dealership, get serviced at any Ford dealership. And ultimately, that just looks, in my opinion, like a really nice crossover SUV. So products like that coming to market make me really bullish about EVs in 2021. Yeah, a lot of these, especially the Mach-E or the Volvo, are high-end vehicles where I think a lot of folks are out there saying, OK, that's great. I'm glad we have a lot of these now. We're not just looking at one or two. But when are we going to get a boring sedan EV that I could afford? Yeah, we're still waiting on that because the cost of a battery pack is still substantial to the point where we're adding between $5,000 and $10,000 over the cost of just a standard economy sedan or economy hatchback. So there are cars on the market now like the Chevrolet Bolt or the Tesla Model 3, of course, that offer the same kind of practicality of a normal hatchback, but ultimately, they're still costing again between $5,000 and $10,000 more. And ultimately, I think we're still a ways away from being able to change that. Tesla is promising they've got new battery cells coming called a 4860 cell, which will allow them to add more energy density and kind of take some of the surrounding materials out of the individual batteries. And there are thousands of small batteries inside of your average Tesla. They can drive the cost down of those individual cells. They can theoretically make those cars more affordable. And so hopefully narrow that gap of cost between, let's say, a Model 3 and something like a Toyota Corolla. But those are unfortunately still years away. So I think we're still going to see a lot of the momentum in the high $30,000 to $60,000 range. But remember, the average cost of a new car in the US is around $36,000, $37,000. So that's actually kind of hitting that sweet spot with a car like the Chevrolet Bolt or something like the Volkswagen ID 4, where some of the new Honda's are coming this market as well. So we're not actually that far off. But yeah, there's still definitely a strong need for cheaper EVs. Those we may have to wait for another year. You know, as a person who drives a Volvo XC60, the idea of getting a recharge, even the 40, which is a lovely car also. I mean, I am I am a big fan. However, we're still kind of in that point where sure, charging stations are becoming more common, especially, you know, if you're living in California and you're on the five, it used to be like there was one place where you could do it and other many. But it kind of has to become this ubiquitous thing that's like gas, because as a renter, I don't own my home. I can't plug in my car. Where am I going to plug in my car? Lots of people have that issue like that sounds great. But unless you have a certain setup at home, you can't really do this. So you have to have the equivalent of gas stations around so that you feel like you can be mobile and never have to worry about running out of steam. Yeah, absolutely. Half of the equation of range anxiety is how far can I go in my car on a charge. But the other half is of course, where can I charge this thing for people who own their own home? The solution is pretty easy. Come home and plug it in at night and then you're probably pretty good. Or if you happen to work somewhere that has a charger at work, which is becoming increasingly common, if you can charge it up while you're in the office during the day, then that may solve the issue as well. But that's definitely something that we need to see more charging stations if only to give people that peace of mind. We've seen studies in Japan, for example, in the early, early days of EVs where Nissan gave out leaves or excuse me, Mitsubishi they gave out iMess, which was one of the early EVs, which had a very short range in the order of 50 to 60 miles, and people just weren't using them because they didn't feel comfortable. Mitsubishi put in a lot of chargers and suddenly people were suddenly using their cars a lot more, but they actually weren't using those chargers. They were just kind of like a safety blanket that people felt that they needed. So there's going to be a lot of changing of thinking of how you attack your car, that I don't necessarily need to charge it up, that I have a gas station in my garage effectively if you happen to own your own home. But there's a lot of infrastructure that's still needed and a lot of, a lot of frankly marketing that's needed and that's really important. So I think that's what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be promoting an EV, not just kind of the penalties or the environmental implications. Well folks, CES set to kick off January 11 that's an open question how the CTA is going to pull off the biggest product show of the year as a virtual event, certainly the biggest product show in the US anyway. The show will feature a lot of familiar companies, AMD CEO, Dr. Lisa Sue will deliver a keynote as will Verizon CEO Hans Vestberg, LG already out there and they've got a lot of great TVs, OLEDs that curve for gaming but that can stay flat for regular TV watching. A thousand millimeter radius and variable refresh rate from 40 to 120 Hertz.  We've been to our fair share of CES. Can a virtual CES have the same impact as a product show? Tim, what do you think? I think that for the vast majority of people reading media, every CES is virtual. I mean, we're kind of watching along with us. We're hopefully doing a good job of bringing people to the show as best we can, but ultimately people are watching this stuff on YouTube or wherever, getting their tech news and kind of following along virtually. So for the consumers that theoretically it doesn't have to change that much. But obviously if we're talking, like you said about some new massive OLED that curves, it's a little bit hard to sample that if you're not going somewhere to see it. So, you know, I can't say too much but certainly I'm aware so I think we'll still see some of the interesting coverage that we typically see out of CES. It just won't be quite as grandiose as we've seen in the past. But frankly, I think the news is still going to be very exciting. And if anything, you know, being able to cover this stuff from home, I think we'll give we people in the media an opportunity to kind of cover this in a little bit more healthy way, not be staying up till 1 or 2 a.m. going to various conferences that people schedule very late or having meetings with people over dinner or maybe going out on a date. But if anything, I think this will be an easier CES for us to cover, which means I think probably better coverage for the readers in the long run. I hope anyway. But what about all the parties you get invited to that you just get smoothed with people you would never rub shoulders with? I think I've been to maybe one CES party in the many, many moons that haven't been going to CES. That's something that's never really appealed to me that much. I do get people finding out stuff, though, even if it's not you or me, that is where somebody later says, well, I was talking at a party to this executive who said, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you're not going to have that kind of stuff happening. You're not going to have the, I got my hands on it at the CES show floor and here's what I noticed. But as you mentioned, if some of these products are being shipped out to people, they're going to get more time with them. They're going to not have somebody looking over their shoulder, kind of directing them this way or that. So it's going to be a different kind of coverage because yes, I've covered CES virtually before in my life, but I was always relying on the reporting from the people who were there. This time, nobody is going to be there. And I think that is a fundamental difference. I don't think I've seen a curved OLED sport gaming that is also flat for regular TV watching. I'm like, that sounds awesome. I got to see this.  Like, pretty cool. And now I have some firsthand knowledge of it to not have any firsthand knowledge of it and rely solely on the, you know, lucky reviewers who get some of the stuff. Hey, if there are reviewers that you like and trust, great. But there is a slight thing that's lost by not being there yourself. I think the big thing that we're going to miss will be actually the, the kind of incillary events, the digital experience, that kind of stuff have the right combination of factors to go mainstream. You might remember the happy fork from a couple of years ago, the haptic feedback fork that vibrates and they're eating too much. You know, we get pitches for stuff like that all the time and the vast majority of the time we kind of ignore it because it sounds silly, but at CES you always had this crazy mix of mainstream media along with really specialist tech media. And so everybody there covering stuff, you know, there's somebody from a major broadcast to see something like that and goes, oh, this is cool. They put it on Good Morning America or whatever. They're going to have a harder time reaching that same level of media because there won't be one place that they can put a product and get exposure to, you know, the breadth of that media. Now they're going to have to go back to the old school ways of cold emailing people are calling or sending pressure releases out. So I think that we'll probably see a little bit less of the kind of cool, catchy, weird CES stuff that we've typically seen in the past and that is a little bit sad. Yeah. I mean, even though they're going to do share stoppers and digital experience and all of those, there's serendipity that I think you have when you're walking around and thinking of the finger food we won't have. I know we'll have to we'll have to buy some tortinos or something. Think of ourselves. Let's check out the mailbag, Sarah. Let's do it. Tim, I'm glad you're on the show today because Matt a.k.a. Waffle Offagus wrote in about some Apple car news we were talking about at the end of 2020 writers have reported hey, Apple car news sounds like they're working on something but somewhat hard to say what it is. Mike Matt rather says my mind instantly went to one thing the Toyota Supra as gearheads know Toyota brought back the Supra for the 2020 model year but they had help it was created in collaboration with BMW and if you ask most gearheads it's more BMW than Toyota but the really interesting thing is isn't even manufactured by BMW or Toyota but Magna Stur who makes a whole host of cars for other manufacturers in Germany including the Supra the BMW Z4 the Jaguar I place an E-Pace so they have a history of manufacturing EVs also others Magna Stur also offers R&D capabilities and makes specific parts as well so it's totally possible for Apple to design a car and then very quickly ramp up production by partnering with somebody like Stur as opposed to the production hell that Tesla went through according to the Wikipedia entry for Stur as of 2018 they were capable of producing over 200,000 cars per year that Apple farms out actual manufacturing I'd figure it'd be worth noting that major car companies are doing the same thing and therefore it would be possible for Apple to build a car also Matt says in conclusion all that said I still don't think they'll do it yeah that's definitely great analysis and he's absolutely spot on Magna is a company that not only makes cars for other manufacturers but makes really high and really high quality cars for other manufacturers and if Apple were incredibly particular about what they wanted the car to look like what they wanted the car to feel like Magna could absolutely deliver what they wanted and for a cost that really wouldn't be that much more expensive than going and opening a factory and doing it themselves without them having to worry about and all that overhead which obviously Apple doesn't want to do in fact I've heard rumors in the past and really put much weight behind them that Apple was actually looking and considering buying Magna which would give them an ability to do that really easily but for sure if Apple wants to produce a Magna that would be for sure the way to do it without a doubt but I'm still just not confident that Apple really wants to be building cars I still think that they're kind of waffling between do we want to make a car or do we want to make an overall infotainment experience much like Google is doing now with Android Automotive that's what's powering all Polestar's cars that's what's powering the new XC40 recharge from Volvo and it's really great it gives you the full Google experience within your car if Apple could bring that to a car it would be really interesting to see what they do in the water maybe like they did with Sony before the iPod do we want to make a music player getting the feel for things and then ultimately releasing their own iPod and then ultimately the iPhone maybe that's how they kind of wade into the the transportation market because there's the other side of it is dealerships and sales of cars as well that even if they use Magna they would have to develop all of that themselves if they wanted to make it a car that they were doing not in partnership that's good stuff to think about and yeah like Sony or the Motorola rocker yeah that's right well thanks everybody who sent us feedback over the holiday break here on DTNS although we had a lot of shows hope you all were able to follow along during our time off feedback at dealertechnewshow.com is where you can send questions comments or anything that we talk about in the future we'd also like to shout out patrons from other countries from all over the world including Chris Benito Jon and Bicky Johnston and Gadget Versuoso also thanks to Tim Stevens Happy New Year Tim so glad to have you back and where can people keep up with all of your work Happy New Year Sara thanks so much for having me you can find my stuff at theroadshow.com I'm Tim on a store Stevens on Twitter or just Tim Stevens on Instagram Excellent folks we have new merch for you this year I'm able to show it off on the video Is it t-shirts and hoodies with the DTNS 7-year anniversary logo on it? You have to be at the right level to get them, so double-check that. And if you are at a level to get them, it's either a sticker at one level or a hoodie or a mug or something like that. You can get a new one every three months as long as you stay a patron. So go check it out, patreon.com slash DTNS. We are live, y'all, Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern. That's 2130 UTC. And you can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. Happy New Year. We are happy to be back, and we'll be back tomorrow with Chris Ashley. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. I hope you have enjoyed this, bro.


Traffic. Everybody doctor over here. Just want to share quickly a few numbers as far as the incidence and prevalence of HIV in the United States and then we'll look at it at the global scale as well. So here we see, first of all, our member incidence is a number of people who get a disease during a time period. Prevalence is going to be the number that have it. So obviously the prevalence is going to be a lot higher because we're looking at people that already had the infection and people that get the infection every year, etc. As far as US based numbers, these are kind of rough estimates, but about one million Americans currently would have HIV infection and there's somewhere between 35,000 and 40,000 new infections a year. So those would be the numbers I want you to know in the United States. Globally, it's a much bigger problem. So just so you know, we've turned the tide. We've made a lot of progress. There's still some parts of the world that are in serious trouble because of this disease. But you have to understand that when I was in college, we thought these numbers were going to be way worse. So I would say currently between 35 and 40 million people are infected on the globe. Sadly, as you can see here with these percentages, 70% of those people are in Sub-Saharan Africa. So there are parts of Sub-Saharan Africa where one in four, one in five people are going to be infected. So that's terrible and we need to do better. The incidence as far as new cases be about a million a year. So you see the United States is a pretty small fraction of what's happening globally and that's because 70% of these infections are in Sub-Saharan Africa. So currently HIV and AIDS have led to 40 million deaths. It's hard to say exactly how many because how do you classify deaths? Some countries don't keep as good of records as we do. But if somebody dies that has tuberculosis and AIDS, how did they die? That's what we have to kind of guess. One example would be we know that diarrheal disease is killed between two and four million people a year but that's a huge range because you don't actually know where to classify people when they die. So those are safe estimates. So I would say that about 40 million humans have HIV right now and about 40 million have died from it. So like I said, thankfully we've made a lot of progress. When I was in school we would have guessed that these numbers would have been a lot higher. That maybe eight million Americans would potentially have it by now and maybe 100 million people would have died. So it's kind of good news. So globally this is an example of people classified as a pandemic because it is a worldwide epidemic. So it's a problem everywhere. But as you can see that East and Southern Africa area is definitely where it is the biggest problem. Now the bad news with that is it's also in an area where then having resources and the availability of drugs and the things we need to do to control the infections is difficult. So the problem is the worst in an area where it's more difficult to help. So all right, those are just some basic numbers as far as the incidents and prevalence of HIV both in the United States and worldwide. So hope this helps. Have a wonderful day. Thank you.


Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2019, brought to you by Red Hat. Welcome back to theCUBE, continuing coverage here at Red Hat Summit 2019. Day three of our three days of coverage, some 9,000 attendees, great keynotes, great educational sessions, and a couple of great guests for you. Stu Miniman, John Walls, we're joined by Marco Bill Peter, who is the Senior Vice President of Customer Experience and Engagement at Red Hat. Good to see you, Marco. Thanks for having me. Good job on the keynote stage this morning. And Dr. Christoph Beck, who is the Head of IT Infrastructure from Hilti. And Christoph, thank you for being here as well. Thank you. Hailing from Lichtenstein, and we think you're the first guest alum. We're about to check our database, but we've set a new record today, so thanks for adding to our history. Thanks for having me. First off, let's talk about Hilti. I'm sure people at home say Hilti, I've seen them, but this building probably wouldn't be here without you. Imagine half the city wouldn't be here without you, but just tell folks at home Hilti a little bit about where you fit into the construction world. Hilti was founded in the 1940s in Principality of Lichtenstein, and is now today a leading supplier for the construction industry. We provide tools, consumables, services, and software solutions for professional construction companies. That is from hammer drills to anchors to calculation software and overall complete services for the industry. That's what Hilti's doing. So you did a very good job this morning on the keynote of painting that picture about the scope of your work and the necessity of your work, the vitality of it, because construction projects, as we all know, have very strict deadlines. Sometimes they have unique needs, they have immediate needs, emergency needs, and you're at the center of all that, so your technology is central to your general operation. Absolutely, yes. I mean, with 25,000 or 29,000 employees, 25,000 users in our SAP system, basically everybody's using every day SAP or the vast majority of the users. We have 10,000 concurrent users every day on our system that deal with customer requests, with orders, with quotes, but also of course with complaints, with repair handling and so on and so forth. Just a few. Yeah, just a few. So Marco, I hear SAP and brings me back to when, oh well, Linux was that stuff that sat on little sidelines, we're well past that. You've got so many customers that run their business, mission critical around the globe, just give us a little bit of background on the partnership with Hilti and Red Hat and solutions like SAP. Yes, sure, yeah. The partnership with Hilti goes back to, I think, 2007. For me personally, I started working with Hilti from another company in 93. So I know actually Hilti quite well. I actually studied in the same town next to Liechtenstein. So I know them well. And it's amazing to see the journey kind of 2009 going all SAP mission critical on REL and now actually they move to SAP S4HANA. And yes, Hilti is one of the clients, but it kind of talks that we can handle these mission critical applications and mission critical customers and build this good relationship to make sure they have this courage to actually do these bold jumps like they did the last six months. So Christoph, you've got a broad role at the company. We talked to so many companies. I'm becoming a tech company, I'm becoming a software company. Well, software is critical, but at the end of the day, infrastructure and running your business is core.  You have real stuff in the physical world that lots of people and lots of physical things that need to go. Talk a little bit about that balance and how the company's been changing over those last 10 years. I was excited to be open with you. I was really excited when our executive board a couple of years ago, besides tools, consumables and services, also added software into a strategic pillar for Hilti. And while I believe that software will be an interesting pillar for us, will generate additional revenue, will generate additional sales, primarily also in the consumables and tools and services piece, software becomes more and more important when you look at the journey of building a building like this, as you mentioned, John. I mean, it starts with specifying, it starts with the planning on CAD and it ends at the end with asset management, where are the tools and so on. So it's a complete life cycle throughout the building and throughout the construction of a building. You know, Marco mentioned that you made this decision to migrate to HANA last year, right? 2018 or you started last year. You actually did it last year, decision made before that. Talk about that a little bit, if you would please. And where Red Hat fit into that because that's not a small decision, right? I mean, that's a very calculated and I wouldn't, not risky, but it's just a big move. And so the confidence that you had as well that Red Hat was your partner to make that happen. Absolutely. I mean, the announcement of SAP to support HANA as the only database after 2025 was one of the factors to push us into that direction. That was then clear for us that we want to go there. And it was also pretty clear for us that in our size, it was not that easy to move in 2023 or something like that in that direction, but that we have to be the first movers to be fully supported by SAP and all these partners because later on they will be busy with migrating all the big shots. So we took the decision to move first and soon and that allowed us to be in the focus of all these attached partners, SAP, but also Red Hat, also Dell EMC for storage and HP for servers. That meant that we had confidence, that we had full attention from all these providers and partners to help us to migrate. On the other hand, it was clear the journey we started in 2009 as indicated by Marco that we moved to an open software that we moved to commodity hardware, Intel-based server hardware, was a move that had paid off in the past and we didn't want to go away from that and move again to a proprietary hardware or software solution. So it was very clear that we want to do that jointly with Red Hat on commodity and Intel-based servers and that's how we went there. All right, so Christoph, big theme we hear not only at this show, but almost every show we go to is today, customers, it's the hybrid and multi-cloud world. I see SAP at all of the big cloud shows that we cover. Where does cloud fit into your overall discussion at your company and then we can drill down to the specifics of SAP and Red Hat, but do you have a cloud strategy as it were?  So when you go to hilti.com or any of our webpages, you typically land on an AWS-powered website because that one gave us the flexibility of operating systems of databases, of whatever we needed that was available there. With our internal workload, however, so all the software we use internally to run the company, we have a world that is split between SAP, which runs entirely on Red Hat, and the rest of the workload, which is to a large degree Windows-based workload. So there we decided a few years ago to move into Microsoft's Azure platform to move the internal workload into Azure as it is mainly Windows-based. So Marco, I actually want to depart from hilti for a second, just give us a little bit of a broad view. We've talked to you many times, you talked about this age, the customer experience is a critical piece of Red Hat's mission out there. When I talk to customers today, one of the biggest changes they've seen the last few years is I'm managing a lot of stuff that's not in my environment. It's the stuff I'm responsible for it, and if something goes wrong, I'm absolutely getting the call, but it's not my network, it's not my servers, it's not my piece there, but I have to do all of them. I've got to imagine that's been a transformation for Red Hat and the partnerships, and you're everywhere, so it just gives us a little context. You describe it very well. I think the last two years, before I think it was just like some use cases in the public cloud, but today the hybrid cloud is here, then everybody does it, it's not just one company. From a customer experience to staying behind, like I mentioned on the stage, it gets harder, and you've got to have these partnerships. One partnership, we can talk about the Azure, we have people in Redmond, think about it. Today everything changed with Satya having on stage here, but we have support people in Microsoft for the last two or three years. Same with SAP as an example, we have people, we actually build a fairly large team in Waldorf to be closer with them together, and to do that, be it the SAP Cloud, be it on regular workloads as well. In general, yes, the challenges, you mentioned networking, it gets trickier, and it shifts it from, but it's unavoidable, it shifts it from, okay, we own and control the stack, to yes, you need to know your open source software and to have really partnerships, right? And I think the announcement with Microsoft to have this managed services offering that we do jointly, that's what we're driving to, so that we can do this better together with partners. So, Marco, it's great to hear you that, but Christoph, he's not listening. Tell us the reality, you've worked with Red Hat for 10 years, you're going to Cloud, how are they doing? How's the ecosystem, the vendors in general, they're all up on stage holding hands. I mean, it's seamless, nobody ever points fingers, I'm sure. To be very, very honest with you, I mean, I appreciated last year hearing that Red Hat will be offered in Azure. I mean, that was not possible to mention those two company names in one sentence in the past, at least for us as customers. And that was a bold statement last year, that those two parties will suddenly join. That fits very well in our strategy, because we believe internal workload for Hilti should run in Azure. Seeing on last Tuesday, Microsoft and Red Hat shaking hands and moving even beyond that one was for me almost the most exciting event here, or the most exciting statement that I saw here during these few days, because that re-emphasized the close relationship that those two have, and that exactly fits our roadmap. That's exciting for us. We heard that, again, from both CEOs, saying customers really kind of brought us together. They made this deal work, because we kept hearing that they love us, and they love you, and they like us together. So we got that, we understand that. So Marco, customers drove that to a certain degree.  But what, like an initiative like that, what is that doing for you at Red Hat in terms of carrying that over to other customers? Now, you've learned from one. You've seen what they've gone through. What kind of confidence does that give you? What kind of interest does that give you about how to approach this kind of move? Absolutely, yeah. You know what we learned from, give you one example, right? If you move these Hanaj up close, right? Christopher Hilty uses systems with 12 terabytes memory. Think about it. That's a fairly large system. And that footprint, right? To actually test our software with that footprint and then even think about the next journey as in, if you want to do this in the cloud, what does that mean? If you take a 12 terabyte image and run it in AWS. And so that is, since my team also does quality assurance and product security, that's for them as well as in, okay, we've seen what Hilty can do, it worked, and how do we actually make this more robust? How do we test new hardware? And how do we do that in this journey? I think I'm pretty proud on how we actually learn from these instances. And Hilty is not the only one, it's just one that's public. But yeah, it's every time, I think that you only survive this industry if you really learn continuously and also apply it, right? I mean, our whole setup involved or we shifted completely, and not just from the people we have there. So we have people that do open shift there. We have people do Linux and performance. But also from structure, to really be sure that we are set up for success and know what the next wave of customers is. Obviously every customer from SAP will do, will go through a journey like this over the next 10 years. So, Kristoff, obviously being on stage is good for the company, but coming to Red Hat Summit, why don't you just give our audience that if they hadn't come to it, some of the value as to what you place and some of the activities that have excited you most here this week? I mean, one thing is of course, hearing about latest technologies, new releases of software, of new possibilities and opportunities for us as customers from Red Hat. But also it's great to see how on the floor out there, other partners, customers and vendors mingle around the ecosystem that was created around open software about not only an operating system, but also about containers, about all those different technologies which have an important role for all of us in IT in the future. Sure. Well, good week. That's for sure. Very nice job again on the keynote stage. To both of you and good luck with the partnership on down the road.  That's for sure. Thanks for the time, Kristoff. Marco. Thank you. Thank you very much. Back with more. We're live here in Boston and we're covering the Red Hat Summit 2019 on the queue.


etc. How do you describe a line in 3D rather than the usual 2D? How do you describe a line in 3D rather than the usual 2D? Like like the coordinate system? Like this is here so this is the x-axis right when you have one dimension you have one direction but you can go this way and this way but it's one one planar right one direction right so that's one direction 1D here's 2D right here's a y so you got two directions right you can go this way and you can go up and down so that's two direction 2D right 3D you don't have to draw the line you can just imagine this thing coming in and out that's 3D or you can just add another line this way I know people like making this x y and that one z in in mathematics but I like it this way because I usually go from 2D to 3D right and I usually make this z so that would be your third coordinate right so if you're one dimension if this is let's say point two right or let's just call this two and then you want to go to two dimension let's say one two three four you go to four right so two dimension you would be here bring these two guys together that's where you are in a two-dimensional world so you have an x and a y right x and y now if you want to take this to three dimension all you got to do is go let's do this one two three four five six seven so two four and seven now where would we put that go up you hit it here you hit it here I don't where would we put that actually we would go this way this way and that way something here would be two four and seven I'm not really good at drawing the 3D aspect of it right but that's what it is that's where you would put it so you would take this if this was at zero zero so this point is here you would go actually it would be further up here it'd be one two three four five six seven so it'd be like here that's point two four and seven which is x y and z okay because you would just go off in this direction right so two and then two and four would be you're at two you go up to four so you're here and then seven would be this would be equivalent to you being here on a three-dimensional and then you go one two three four five six seven and you have to be parallel to this guy that's the best way I would do it