Noise wait, can you say bring the noise or is that like let's get ready to rumble? I Mean it's from a song right, but can like his dre trade marked it bring the noise. I don't know Probably he's a he's got enough money to do it now turn it up Well, he should we should all put intellectual property shackles on everything we can think of Don't you think everything's got to be political with you Democrats walk like this Republicans All right, I'm not going to use the FSL template today. Hey try to record DTS and then frighten myself when I don't see the wave in the proper folder. All right, you ready to do this Here we go When having tea with the Queen you must remember three important things One pinky up to never wear a hat more audacious than hers and three make sure you wear your DT NS t-shirt To become Queen appropriate go to daily tech news show comm forward slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday July 9th 2015 I am Tom Merritt Thank you for having me in your ears or possibly even your eyes today joining me Justin Robert young DTS contributor and Podcaster, I don't think extraordinary is a big enough word to describe you Justin. Oh man Well, I like to think of myself as just a simple podcaster doing the best with his two hands Yeah, that's why they call you Justin two hands. Yeah, well cuz a lot of time podcasters You know they try to go one-handed a mistake in my book. Hey, I read and wired today that podcasting is back Is it I mean that there's a can more conventions now I think I've seen more podcasting conventions There was a false start in the early 2000s apparently and we were given a 20-yard penalty And so yeah now had to recover from that but I think I think you want to know what? I'm actually already getting excited for the next time Me too me too. I'm curious like okay. We've done cereal. We've done ESPN. We've done comedians What's next? It's exciting Who knows? But we should do techniques. We probably should stick to what we know. Let's do that headlines Recode reports Facebook announced a new option in its newsfeed preference So that allows users to pick up to 30 people or pages that will automatically appear At the top of their newsfeed colloquially being called see first your see first list Facebook won't use the list target ads They say according to newsfeed product manager Greg Mara That's not gonna happen the new option should become available on iOS as an update to the app later today And if it's not there already for you an Android and the web versions of Facebook will get it Later, not sure exactly when this has sparked our discussion topic for later though We've got plenty to talk about but the idea of algorithm plus human is now Officially in vogue so free your mind and the rest will follow strike a pose the verge reports of Microsoft office 2016 for Mac has Launched Mac users get features like sandbox apps full-screen view and retina screen optimization It also integrates one drive cloud storage adds co-authoring support and support traditional windows shortcuts for office So users can use control shift instead of command shift office 2016 for Mac ships with five apps word Excel PowerPoint Outlook and one note is available to office 365 home and personal subscribers today The standalone version will be released in September I'll tell you the one thing about this release as an office for Mac user That I am fixated on is that control shift thing So the curmudgeon part of me says well, that's just non-standard. It's command for everything In OS 10 and as a dual user I know when I'm at my windows machine to use control and when I'm at a Mac to use command You're confusing things because sometimes I'll be able to use control now and others not However, there is kind of a state-dependent memory with office where when I'm in office I will more often make the mistake of trying to use control when I'm in OS 10 just because I'm used to it And then that would make it not be a problem anymore But you want to know what it kind of feels like Microsoft sort of just bringing what people like about Microsoft and identify as part of the positive element of their brand Which is you can have customization We give you more granular options so you can make your experience your own and bringing that to Mac is really rad Tom if only there was a catchphrase that invoked a professional wrestler to describe positive micro Yeah, it's if such a mania was running wild everywhere It's not it's not real. It's not real wild in Finland right now. I'm just saying no But everywhere else Well, no it ran wild with their jobs Oh Not even that even happened yet IBM and partners like global foundries in Samsung have produced the first Seven nanometer chips with functional transistors. Ars Technica has a good report a good write-up on this This is a huge deal It may be a little hard to wrap your head around but the test chip was built at the IBM SUNY Polytechnic 300 millimeter research facility in Albany, New York Uses FinFET transistors that have Silicon Germanium channels instead of the traditional silicon only created using self-aligned Quadruple patterning and extreme ultraviolet lithography or EUV now if you don't understand any of those words hang in here The reason silicon germanium is good is it has a higher electron mobility and that means it can overcome The silicon's resistance to smaller channels It just means you can make it smaller if you can make germanium work EUV lithography makes etching the smaller transistors possible because an EUV light beam is 13.5 nanometers wavelength compared to the argon fluoride laser they use now which is 193 and even if you don't know what those numbers mean you know that 193 is much bigger than 13.5 EUV is expensive to deploy commercially So it does remain to be seen how IBM has made this viable But they think they have and IBM says a commercial chip using the process Could be as few as two years away, although it might be a little longer. I bet it's gonna be longer This is a big big big deal because it says hey, you know what Moore's law might get another refresh It may kick be kicked down the road a little bit more People were thinking 10 nanometers might be as far as we could get Life finds a way Tom it always does when it comes to Moore's law over the last, you know Decades and I'm excited to see it happening Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to see this happening in in in in Albany, you know Albany upstate New York has Specifically Albany with Kodak has had a rich history of technological advancement over the last hundred years great point Nine to five Google Stephen Hall has been talking to several sources familiar with advanced prototypes of the next version of Google glass The so-called enterprise addition will have a larger prism display and Adam processor and improved battery life Paul says his source back Back up the FCC filing that showed a potential Google Glass successor working on the five gig Wi-Fi band as well Announcements of the death of Google Glass have been greatly exaggerated. I've been saying this or have months. I mean Do you think it is telling that they're calling this the enterprise addition that this might be more well The enterprise edition has never gone out of service They actually continue to support that one the current and the one that they the original version Yeah, in the enterprise so so no, I think this means they they realize one of the places where this is working out better And and that's I guess that that's my point is that the consumer Google Glass is dead maybe The next web reports slack has added emoji voting to its communication platform Users can choose to add a reaction to their post Or the post of others by selecting an emoji or more than one emoji Afterwards then other users can add their own emoji or just click on one that has been added So in other words, you can make a poll for instance where people are asked to vote puppy face or fish flag Further different options mathematically speaking the multiplier effects here means that slack times emoji equals peak tech hipster Well, alright, so slack is something that just popped up overnight and is now Dominant like in terms of and maybe it is just my thin layer of life, but IRC is dead Well, I mean who knows if it's dead all I know is that this product a very specific Connection of a lot of very available tech behind a wall and with an element of privacy to it has become gigantic And the only way they stay there is if they keep adding every little possible thing that you could want to make your Conversations more interesting. I have no idea if anybody's going to vote with an emoji passed today But it would have been very very fun if people worked the Deandre Jordan emoji battle that unfolded yesterday across sports blogs into a slack Conversation, I think that would be I have to give slack this much They know their audience emojis are gonna get the slack base really fired up and They're good at this like I was like really you did emojis in a poll like well, let's see how this works It works great and that's why people are so excited about slack and I'm a slack user You know, I'm making fun of myself here when I called a tech hipster thing Because it works really well. That's why I mean I'm in two slack communities and there were Multiple polls in both with emojis on day one. So you're right. They know their audience Reuters reports China's parliament published a draft cyber security law that increases privacy protection as well as government Authority to obtain records and block the dissemination of private information ISPs must store keep data collected within China stored in the country Overseas data storage will require government approval network equipment must also get government approval and Parliament will gather feedback on the proposal unit until early August Yeah, so this is something you've probably you may have heard people complaining about it was supposedly voted on Monday, but it was finally published on Wednesday and A lot of companies around the world are very skeptical about the vague wording of this law and what it might mean Especially regarding where you are allowed to store particular types of data. So it'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I Mean as with anything in terms of a top-down Chinese solution. It feels very malleable to whoever is in power that wants to enforce certain elements of it nothing can really be Too rigid or too porous because when you have an authoritarian Culture like like China has it really depends on who is stamping the paper that gets it aside. What is and what isn't gonna happen? Just to note a nail in the nook platform tech crunch reports the Barnes and Nobles closing its international nook app for windows Nook users outside the US and UK will have their content removed from Windows machines and may be eligible for a refund If they purchased books using their Microsoft account as a payment method Barnes and Noble bought out Microsoft's investment in the nook store last December Here's what happens folks when you buy DRM material and then that business changes. It's not even going out of business They're just saying oh that agreement changed. So those books. Yeah, you don't own those anymore Doesn't it kind of feel like sort of the winter of the the the Harvest that bloomed maybe five or six years ago like we had the news about the windows phone Yesterday you have the nook today. Just it kind of feels like yeah We have our winners in these in a lot of these races and now some of the also rands are kind of fading into the dark It's a reaping it is the cannons are going off and the faces of the nook and Lumia's are showing in the sky Venture beat reports T-Mobile USA is extending its unlimited roaming to cover Mexico and Canada T-Mobile allows free roaming to more than 120 countries CEO John Leger Also told journalist on a conference called Thursday that the carrier added 2.1 million customers last quarter bringing its total to 80 or sorry 58.9 million passing sprint to become the number three carrier in the United States We are number three. We are number three say the T-Mobile USA Employees, you know T-Mobile was written off. It was gonna be sold AT&T. It was done. It was over And now it's risen to number three at what point does Deutsche telecom look at this and say, huh? Maybe we don't sell T-Mobile USA off after all Or does it become a more troubling asset to sell off? Considering its market share, you know at this point, you know, it can't go I mean obviously AT&T already tried and it was too big to swallow for the for the regulators But now it's it's kind of so it the bigger it gets the more problematic It would become to be an acquisition target for a lot of different a lot of different other companies Yeah, it's passing through that dangerous ground of like, okay. Well, you better keep growing and become worth owning Yeah, or else you're not worth selling either. That's an interesting point Reuters reports the US Office of Personnel Management said Thursday that attackers accessed information for about 21.5 million people from background investigation databases that includes 1.8 million non-applicants mostly spouses cohabitants, etc This if you're like wait a minute didn't I already hear about that? This is in addition to the information about 4.2 million current and former federal workers That was accessed in a separate but related incident That's all I gotta say Yeah, yeah Time for some news from you that'll cheer us up Thanks to everybody who submits articles votes on articles at daily tech news show dot reddit comm big Thanks to our moderators who keep it running smoothly You guys are the best and many of the stories you've heard already on this show were submitted on the subreddit Another one that was submitted was from flowbama posted a link to the Google Store for an accessory that adds an Ethernet port to the Chromecast Our second good reports that if a power it's a essentially a power brick that plugs into the Chromecast USB port and provides both power and Ethernet connectivity at 100 megabits per second the adapter cost $15 on the Google Store when it was available in the US But it already sold out So you can't get one there right now Solves the two of the biggest sort of real-world problems when you get a Chromecast and you're really excited about it You realize oh wait my TV is not new enough for it to get power via the the television itself and Maybe my my big strip where I have everything else plugged in for a media center is too full to have something else plug into it so This is great, and you know the Wi-Fi element of Of the Chromecast is something that is kind of troublesome and oftentimes kind of Dampen that dampens the experience a little bit. That's a great add-on Yeah, if you're at the edge of acceptable bandwidth for the Chromecast Wi-Fi is going to be more of an issue The lag that isn't involved there is gonna crop up more often And so you're going to want to hardwire this and this allows you to do it No wonder it's sold out so quick And Crod two sent us the extreme tech report that the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology has a plan to clean up its own Cube Sats after their useful life is over clean space one is satellite With a sensor and a canonical net that can close around a 10 centimeter cube set satellite much in the way that Pac-Man eats dots diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this Damn, okay Pandora's box of south. I'll stop playing with the tablet The cube set is then secured and dragged down into the atmosphere Well, it's not a solution for larger space junk clean space one is at least consistent with the growing leave No trace in space philosophy diamond Club does hope you enjoy this program. I hope you enjoy that ad line Okay, apologies for that. However, pretty cool. This is cleaning up after yourself This is essentially the satellite version of pack it in pack it out I'm putting up a cube set But I've also got another set that will go and it will grab that cube set and make sure it doesn't turn into space junk So this is pretty great. Doesn't it kind of feel like there is you know, it's funny There's kind of a theme here with today's show and we've seen it with maybe you know That we were talking before maybe the winter of some of the boom of a few years ago now You know this story which to me is exciting and where at the very least we're talking about it because Now with SpaceX and some of them, you know, the space exploration the idea of Useful space, you know useful orbiting space seems something like that that we Want to pay more attention to we want to clean up that space a little bit more Clean up your space clean up your orbit. Oh, yeah, and then of course we have a big changing of the garden the headlines. Yes What have a changing the garden in the headlines? No, we we're gonna discuss a big Philosophical changing of the guard in the after the headlines. Sorry That's the right sound clip even. Okay, so we were talking about this news feed and Justin alluded to this earlier we are seeing more and more examples of Algorithmically generated things which for a decade have promised to to free us from having to think right? Pandora just put in a song you like and it will play songs you like from here until the end of time search Search will just automatically crawl the web and when you tell it what you want to find it will deliver those results And we're finding out that well, you know what sometimes I would like my music curated by a human being And so we see beats one radio We see human curated stations like Soma FM finally getting the do that they deserve as people return to them We see curated playlists on Apple music and other services Ardio coming back with curated radio stations and people are like excited about this right because it provides an element That was missing from the algorithm We we see it a lot with bad actors, right if you're like, I want to make sure that I get rid of you know The unacceptable things that are posted on the internet showing up in search results We need human intervention to do that. So Justin You asked the question when we were preparing for this. Are we Are we at the point where we can wield the algorithm as weapons instead of just laying back and expecting That they will just do everything for us. I Think the answer is yes and for two reasons a We have become smart enough to understand where they are good and where they aren't and B We have stopped thinking of them as our end all be all solution Like we we have we have understood that they are not going to just get better Exponentially and eventually meet our expectations. We've all had exactly that Pandora You know Pandora is really a great example of this because the musical genome project Promised us and Pandora's application of it promised us the beautiful future of hey Did you stop listening is it for me? It was perfect I kind of stopped listening to new music in college. So it was like great All you got to do is enter in all those songs that you like those bands you liked in college And we will give you new acts or old acts acts from around the spectrum That will not have the biases that you have of well, that's not a band I've heard of before we'll just feed it to you in a continuous playlist And you will be able to enjoy that and discover new artists and then my December's radio station Effectively had the same seven songs on it from when I started listening to it to when I stopped listening to Pandora Regularly because they ultimately just tracked beats per minute and certain pitches and that was limited Billy liar over and over again. It was well, you know, I could just listen to Billy Lyre for it was like Ben Queller and A few other the shins. Oh my god, Pandora loves eating And And what we have now is this idea that like all right Let's use the algorithm as a net to capture stuff and then let's pick and choose Let's let's hire something like this is almost in a weird way. It feels like job creation, doesn't it? interesting that's an interesting take because I Don't think that's the motivation behind it necessarily, but it could be an effect of it, right? Facebook has been trying for almost a decade to say we've got the news feed that will show you what you want that you didn't even know and universally everyone I talked to who uses Facebook says I just don't understand how the news feed decides to put this up here Right, they're always looking at some weird thing that they don't get and it's because it's incomplete the clues are too subtle People like pages for the wrong reasons It's hard to tell when you liked a page because you wanted to win a prize versus you liked a page because you liked it versus You liked it because you accidentally clicked and and so we're we in all of these situations at search and music and Facebook news feed are seeing that Algorithms aren't sufficient. Now. Here's my question for you though, Justin Is it that the algorithm just isn't there yet and we need to keep developing its slower progress than we expected? But eventually one day we will get an algorithm that won't give you the same seven songs over and over again on Pandora But until that day we need human curation until that day Facebook should let us do some prioritization of people to kind of patch over the gap in the algorithm Or is there an essential element to human curation? That is something of a surprise and maybe it could be mimicked by an AI someday that is people like But it's not about an algorithm It's about being able to either exert some control in the case of the Facebook news feed or be surprised by something That you didn't know you would like because somebody played DRAMs cha-cha and beats one I think the difference it's the difference between google news and buzzfeed, you know and and I love Say tech meme because tech meme does human curation. Sure. Exactly. Uh, you know, I think there is something essential to the idea That the human experience is unique And that a human can understand and react to it You know before what an algorithm can Right now, you know, like one of the things that's been fascinating about the apple music playlist Is that a lot of what people are reacting to? Or or I see a lot in in terms of examples and I've listened to a lot Our producer based playlist.  No, I I always these are always the big and that's just a data created playlist It's just somebody recognized a different kind of data to press the sort by feature on Exactly and that's where I think we're we're looking at it's like it's not like this isn't all dated This isn't all pulled in by algorithm, right? It's not like this can't all be recognized. It's just understanding It's really the separation of good data from bad data Useful data from not useful data and that's something that right now algorithms are great at compiling They're not necessarily great at sorting and the human element Tends to uh tend to get over that and then right now my question for you tom What other services and websites would you like to see a human touch on top of the curation? Of an algorithm, you know the first thing that pops to mind is fantasy sports, which does have this already, right? You have your you have your stats view in fantasy baseball Where you can see like what players are performing by stats and then you have your your human view But not often enough. Do you combine the two? Where you say you have somebody take the stats view and go, okay This person is leading it on base percentage, but let's be clear or even go crazy or things like warp, right? But let's be clear. Uh, we know that He he fades in in in may that's a bad example though because it's data You just say like, you know what? I'd be a little wary of him right now My instinct is that this guy is a better bet. He's going to get more playing time in the future These human type things these human type guesses. So that's the first thing that comes to mind is fantasy sports, but the second one that comes to mind is Uh video watching movies and tv I want I desperately want netflix to give me a curated Playlist that is maybe recommended like oh we see that you like sci-fi stuff. Here's you know Maybe it's stan lee or or maybe it's uh, uh, uh, I don't know. So some other, you know, felicia day This is their curated list of great sci-fi television shows and let's say let's say like alan seppenwall Or somebody who is it was a television critic that has a following to say like, okay, this isn't necessarily his Yeah But you hire him and he says because like netflix is is a great example because they're almost there, right?  And they just the progress seems to have slowed And I I almost feel like if you just even took that list and had a critic that I already know and read Uh, say yeah, okay. Take that take not not that and then put his name on it I'd be way more likely to watch those shows and watch those movies because now I kind of feel like it's not just Like I'm not just a slave to tropes I'm not just a slave to british accents and people who may or may not call the cops in stories Uh, it's like no, this is good. This all matches together and there's more to this than just the parts Uh, I think that's that's a fascinating thing. Let me give you one and I will be if this is an idea So brilliant if I might say so myself that I will be blown away if this is not in place by the end of the year amazon curated shopping That uh, that that they can use they have so much algorithmic data on your shopping habits That if they just took, you know, a few people that don't don't make them celebrities make them You know Organizational experts make them, uh, you know sports, you know, the you know, oh, so we we've noticed that you bought a mouth guard Uh, maybe your son's gonna play soccer Here's a list of stuff that we have cut through that's not just 50 other mouth guards and and you know a shin guard or something Maybe now it's it's everything else that somebody who has raised a child playing soccer Would know yeah, you know, you want this and they do have lists already They have they have the ability for other shoppers to make lists and that's there So it's not a a very large step to just say hey, let's hire a few people to make some lists. In fact I'm I almost feel like they've tried this before I I The big key is where they put it And and they do a lot of testing on this and I'm sure they have also here's another one Uh, and and if that amazon idea was so brilliant. It's already happened Then I apologize if because I definitely have thought of this off the cuff And I haven't done any research on whether or not they've done stuff Uh Kickstarter would be another one that I I think beyond just What you know Kickstarter is a large enough place that I would like to see Certain people they give it just you know Uh For like I bought these noise canceling headphone things, you know, and like I'm prone to drop 150 to 200 dollars on a on a cool gadget or something like that and aside from social media There's not a great way for me to just hang in Kickstarter You know hanging Kickstarter and searching around is kind of a tedious process that takes a lot more time An easier way to deep dive into that would be really rad Yeah, no, these are great ideas. Send us your ideas as well feedback at daily tech news show.com Uh, I like where this is going. I think I still think that algorithms will someday get there where they will be What they will they will be much better than what they are right now And some of what we're doing is just a band aid But I think there's always some element and maybe less in the facebook news feed side of things And maybe more in the music curation side of things or the the Kickstarter curation Where an outside perspective will always just be handy It'll be it'll be something that you can't quantify because of the surprise element of it But like this is necessary to make those algorithms better because not only the algorithms came out of thin air For algorithms, I analyze the data of human patterns of behavior So this the next phase of algorithms the next when they get exponentially better It will be because we selected, you know humans interacted with algorithms In the same way that users just interacted with data and that's how the initial algorithms, you know got really good All right, let's move on to our pick of the day from Comey Uh, this was for Molly and her bathroom on the resident spider that you saved I assume you saved her from that. No, you want to know what this is this is a story of heartbreak. Uh, Molly I I told Molly. Hey just text me And and I'll come over because I don't I know her address and she didn't have my number and Email just sat in my inbox. It's like, you know, I'm still there I was passed and I was like, oh, I guess, you know, I guess she didn't need uh, didn't didn't need help with the spider So then I look at my email and she's like, oh my god, I don't have your number But here's my number and here's my address and I was like, no I I so I let I let her down. Ah, that's so sad Well, she could do what Comey suggests and get the battery operated small vacuum that sucks bugs into the tube And lets you release it outside your house Uh, products are named, uh, things like bug buster, bug wand, bug vat They're usually under 20 dollars makes it very easy to catch a bug or a spider without getting too close Comey says I've got a feeling this used to be on infomercials, but many of my friends didn't know about it Uh, hence my pick of the day So, you know, some people don't care about squashing the spider But if you're do if you're one of those people who like, uh, I know Anthony carbonius said this and we have concerns I like to just take the spiders and take them outside and set them free. You can get a uh, a bug buster bug buster vacuum I mean, check it out. You're you're traumatizing the spider You know, the spider's not going to be happy being vacuumed up into a tube and set outside I'm not going to deny that Justin You know, you mean you're going to now you're going to have to pay for spider therapy because you know, it's going to be so so terrified Make sure that you give the spider your email address and your text message phone number Especially also, you got it You got to watch out because it's a one two that splits into two one damage minions That's a good points And your picks to feedback at daily tech news show dot com you can find my picks at daily tech news show dot com Slash picks unless you silence it before you second up We've got a message of the day. We got several messages of the day bunch of good messages of the day We're going to start with someone who gave us a call on our phone line Saying uh, he had some feelings about windows 10 as a windows insider Hi, mr. Merrick, uh listening to show 25 28 and the um Very clear Outline of who will get windows 10 when and your comments regarding The insider preview people being breathless fanboys anxiously awaiting and feeling terribly disappointed if they don't get it I've actually been on the insider prac for six months or so Across four or five different devices and to be honest with you I'm not really going to care that much whether I get the final bits on that day or not because I've seen the progression. I've seen the narrowing of the changes and I don't think the final bits are going to be all that different than the last bill. They push out the past, right? um, so Well, the show thanks for all the information. We'll have to hear myself every now and again on it in the back end But uh, take care and uh, good luck. Thanks Mike So there you go I I think what I was trying to say is that they're making sure that the windows insiders get it because they're more likely to Have the fans of windows who are very excited in that group. They are less likely to disappoint people Uh, but he's very is it very good for him to point out like hey just because you're inside The the insider program doesn't mean you in me that you you're guaranteed to love windows 10 Yeah, you know, I think And this is another kind of uniquely microsoft issue, right that like people rely on microsoft. They like microsoft and yet Uh It's it's the user install base is so large that passion. Is it necessarily?   They like it, you know, but maybe they're not they're not going to run up and down screaming about it Dr. Kermudgen, who's one of our bosses said I quite enjoyed your after-show discussion about the amazon echo wednesday Uh, in fact, jenny josephson was talking about her dealings with alexa And uh, if you go check out the latest episode of tell it anyway tell it anyway dot com She and her husband interview the amazon echo, uh, dr. Kermudgen says apparently My echo liked it too. You triggered her about a dozen times although she never responded Probably because she didn't think you were saying anything important And it's probably true when amazon first announced the echo was universally derided in the tech press as being pointless and creepy But I got an early unit and loved it and have felt some satisfaction to see that same tech press come around And discovering that not only is it a useful device, but it's actually pretty useful itself So thanks for joining the horde who can't imagine for the horde that it could be useful Until you have one consider this future non-apple product announcements. Whoa non-apple product announcements dr. Kermudgen What are you trying to say? Uh, hi. Are you tempted now justin to buy an amazon echo? I like I use alexa for shopping She's great. Was it universally derided? Uh, you know, I don't think so. I think because dr. Kermudgen is a kermudgen Is exaggerating that there were some people who were derided though. I die certainly. Yeah, I think there was there was skepticism, but You can't deny the fact that it sold out as fast as it did People that I know that have it actually almost universally really like it the in fact the only reason why I would not necessarily Go with one is is more because the layout the the confined space of our apartment Where there's a lot of public speaking happening A lot of the day that you know would trigger something in in the you know If you know between all the content that ashley and I Create and stuff like that, you know to have something reacting in an always on kind of way just in our small little footprint Might become a little annoying, but I think I think it's a great idea And I think the idea of an always on AI is is is really fun and smart and every interaction I've had with one has been great. So Rusty wrote in and said being a dts co-executive producer is the best job. I've ever had Thank you. Rusty also says I really hope we don't spend a bunch of money to change our roadways just to accommodate self-driving cars I predict we'll put beacons on human driven cars non automated cars or self-driving cars can operate in human driven driven mode To tag them so that self-driving cars can appropriately factor the behavior into their calculations Here's my question. If different self-driving car manufacturers have unique driving algorithms Will they need to share their code with each other so that they can program expected behavior? Oh wait The car makers could avoid that issue and just open source all the code and work together to accelerate our robot car future But they probably won't Well That seems to me more likely than I think we might think of it in terms of like a very mature Auto market, you know, I think There's you know the the smaller the pie the sharper the knives as I think the the Henry Kissinger quote Has it if there is a big wide open future and everybody You know if every car company can immediately get into a new vertical and force people to buy new cars Which by the way is kind of their business And and something that would make that easier Or expedite law changes, which is really what their problem are right now Is by sharing some element of open source predictive code I could see that happening A lot more because the profit motive is on the right side for the car companies as opposed to Guarding every little inch of it. And there's a couple of projects already I did a search around the Elcano project at elcanoproject.org Is an open source autonomy project for self-driving cars So rusty get on in there and help maybe if you've got if you've got the inclination or the skills to do so There's also a robot car uk from oxford university That has some open source code around it. So the beginnings are there for what rusty is talking about It's not impossible. It's just a matter of getting everybody on board like justin says Also, I hope we don't spend a bunch of money changing roadways I was thinking and as I explained yesterday Just putting like those temporary concrete dividers the way you do for for high occupancy lanes Is all that would really be necessary If you wanted to temporarily make lanes for self-driving cars And I'm sure it would it would be done very fast and definitely not happen during rush hour traffic or or in Florida would be in california. I don't know. That's You know, they don't have as much experience Here And and then the beacons on human driving cars is interesting although ideally they aren't necessary The idea of self-driving cars is not that they have to know what's in the other car to be able to react to it The idea is that they'll react to whatever the car other car is doing So it doesn't matter ideally whether the other car is driven by a human or another self-driving car They they can react to situations That are fluid including things like pedestrians and bicyclists, which are even less predictable than other cars So I don't know that you'd have to do the beacon thing, but it is an interesting thought Yeah, and and in general with with self-driving cars. They're only going to Like whenever we get into these conversations I kind of feel like we're putting the cart before the horse because the self-driving cars are going to need at like There's no horse or driver. There's number one. Yes. This is just a metaphor Which uh, I don't know if they will be allowed in our self-driving car future, but uh, we You're always going to need to to do like very complicated stop sign Kind of driving for self-driving cars, you know, like the idea that we'll be able to go faster on the highway Is only a problem we can get to when these cars when the technology is so sophisticated That you're able to just drive around Your neighborhood and go to rbs and come back which is a and they can do that I mean they they they have demonstrated that they can do that the issue is in the mapping Into getting them to be able to recognize all the areas it takes a That that from what I've read is one of the hurdles is how hard it is to get an area prepped For the car to be able to do it, but once it's prepped they actually have They have really good success in being able to go to rbs particularly. I don't know I mean, listen, they got that new blt It'll be also a question on legality on on when uh, you know, everything's all street legal as they say Yeah, the safety record is going to have to be even better than a hundred percent frankly Like it's it's going to have to be insane for people to be comfortable with this yet Yaru and sunny malaysia wrote in and pointed out that Nokia as a company was already doing badly before they started their alliance with microsoft And we kind of mentioned this but he's making the point even better He says look microsoft alliance with nokia Have them a much needed or gave them a much needed financial lifeline as they try to figure out the smartphone business Perhaps they could have lasted a little longer if microsoft didn't buy them But I don't think the ultimate fate of the town would have changed by much I think this is another good example of a business being disrupted while not being able to respond to new paradigms And it's a fair point. Uh, you know, we were we were pointing out the downside of microsoft's layoffs and And how they don't seem to have Really improved or saved nokia at all by by buying it. Uh, but the fact is maybe nobody could have right it may not have mattered Yeah, it it You know, it just shows, uh, you know, how uh, how long you know for for people watching this story It's it's lightning crashes things come things go, you know, uh You know sea goes in sea goes out. How you gonna explain that? Yeah, it's the moon actually Ah, but we'll leave that for jonathan strickland and how stuff works This is daily tech news show and justin robber young. Thank you for being on. I love it Uh, man, I'll tell you I feel like this was a particularly diverse reference episode I feel like I want everybody to go on my twitter feed and just tell me all the references Please make a citation list. Just make a citation list because I feel like we left plenty of easter eggs Thank you so much. This is uh, always always a pleasure to come on twitter.com slash justin are young To follow justin's exploits. He's got all kinds of podcasts all kinds of projects A wedding podcast and a wedding at the end coming up later this uh in in in a month or so Oh man, uh, believe me. It is uh, like like like the t-rex in the original Jurassic park It is an object that is closer than it might appear even as terrifying as it is Also twitter.com slash contender game Is the social media headquarters for the brand new card game that i'm coming out uh with at the beginning of August uh working alongside the extraordinarily talented john teesdale and guts and glory Uh design firms so if you are interested in that we are Probably going to do another run of uh, of beta test Print and plays we sent out a bunch of them over the july 4th weekend. So, uh, if you are interested In in uh in in uh play testing or you just want to follow to see more information on it Go ahead on over twitter.com slash contender game. It's also contender game on facebook and instagram Thank you to all of our bosses all the patrons who support the show Whether it's on patreon paypal Daily tech news show dot com slash store You guys are what make us able to get better So if you enjoy the show if you get some value out of the show All we say is you know, maybe give us a dollar at least if it's worth that to you a month patreon.com slash ace detect Or daily tech news show dot com slash support if you can uh also We have a new dts t-shirt. It was designed by jenny and perfected by sub guns polish And uh it is available at the store daily tech news show dot com slash store And if you're going to nerd tackler in salt lake city later this month, you can actually use the code two sides So you don't have to pay for shipping you just pick it up at nerd tackler It's a special nerd tackler version of the dts shirt our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com You can give us a call 51259 daily. That's 51259 32459 Listen to the show live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern at alpha geek radio dot com and visit our website daily tech news show dot com We'll be back tomorrow with darin kitchen and lend for alta. Talk to you then The show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program And for the second time That was a good show. What should we call it? Uh I have many good votes But I want to put in a bid now to have just an explain The card game because I'm a huge political junkie matched and exceeded only by my husband. Okay, so Uh, I like to cha cha In a latin bar Yeah Honey, I shrunk the chips Nice I vote for poo moji, which is actually a poo moji um The uh diamond club hopes you've enjoyed this program. Oh, no come on Uh Hope you have enjoyed this program. Tom you hit it again. Ah, sorry about that Office pushes keys for command control Um Microsoft is also the 14 year anniversary of the british show the office. Oh the og office There's a doctor who office mash up out there that I haven't gotten a chance to look at.  Do you want to do you want to see this card here? I do I really do but your vote definitely sways our opinion on things. That's Uh, some of the art Okay, so how does it work? Explain it to me in a nutshell. All right here I'll I'll I'll I'll show you All right types of cards You've got your moderator card And your action card Moderator let's say with the four of us were playing and I was the moderator Uh, you read a debate style a Gwen Eiffel style question about uh democracy So that the topic would be democracy And at that point you everybody has a hand of five action cards That have things like Look at smarty pants over here You had your chance At what cost can we please stick to the issues? And then some of them that have blanks, which you would fill in with democracy So some may call democracy a problem. I call it a solution right um You uh, you basically just have to play three Cards in a round it goes one by one and you can play All three of them at once if you can string Uh, a big sentence together you can go One by one you can do a two a two and one combo on either side of it But as soon as you play three you're out for the round So if you play three up top then you're not going to get the last word The moderator selects who made the best argument and you move on Oh my gosh, Matt Flanagan is going to go insane He is like he treats the election like a spectator sport Uh, I would get along with him very well There's that it is my favorite thing in the world. Uh, you will have a chance to meet him in several weeks Oh, I can't wait to share awesome. I can't wait to share my Waiting for the election results of gore bush 2000 with him after hearing I know I know he has the defining Gore v bush Story and I I can't believe I'm so excited to click more Uh, my science teacher, uh counted hanging chats Oh Well because it all happened in south florida where I was in high school. I was growing up That's amazing Yeah, it matt told this epic story of what happened to him That night As it pertains to a girl and it's it's one of our classic Such a good story story. It's just it's classic. Um, so, uh, so that's exciting. Oh my gosh, you two will get along famously Um, but yeah count us in for any game playing with cards, uh, that Actually, uh Just uh, send me your address because what I've been what's been really easy to do Um is uh Is just a print out on demand um at a fedex Uh, uh, the the hundred card print or the hundred card beta deck Uh, and so that way you can kind of get a test of it. It's actually the feedback has been fantastic on it so far Oh, yeah, do I need to do something to get that deck?  I can get printed. Cool. All right, then I'll just send you the pdf. Um but yeah, so, uh By and large the biggest feedback is not enough cards, which is great because that's a good problem Yeah, that means like people are enjoying it. Yeah, that's that's kind of what we decided Like it would be a win if everybody was like There's you need more cards because the the the base deck is going to be three times as large So, uh, that was something we were planning for and it'll be larger depending on whether or not we can hit our ks goals Oh, is there a ks? Yeah, there's gonna we're we're doing a I mean because it really it only felt right to have a campaign for the political card game Absolutely, right that makes sense Also, it's a thing right unlike a podcast, which is kind of an unending thing like the Kickstarter For a card game seems seems to make sense Like we are kick starting to produce this thing that you will get at the end of the Kickstarter Yeah, and so we're actually we're shooting the uh We're shooting the video this Saturday and um And then yeah, we'll launch at the bottom So if people want to track it should they just follow you on twitter for now? Is that the best way to tender game? Can tender game on on track a contender game? Yeah on on twitter. That's where We're trying to direct all of it. I know that I'm always going to be a hub For for the news of it, but you know what you should do If you really want to just make it explode through the stratosphere Just send it to all the kids on the bus if of every campaign. Do you know that phrase the kids? Oh, yeah, no no no believe you me We are uh, we have a we have a couple really fun ideas We definitely want to we want to send a copy of full deck To every presidential candidate with the uh with the note that they have to give it back when they're no longer a candidate So we'll we'll include a return envelope. Um, because once you're no longer a contender you got to buy one Um The kids on the bus in particular are your key Which is those reporters who the digital journalists whose job it is to follow these candidates through the slog of the early campaign Those are your that's your audience in addition to your obvious side. They need you. They need you They drink a lot What we would also like to do is uh, we would like to barnstorm with the debates Oh Oh my god So we could we could maybe play with with the kids on the bus. I feel like that would be that would be amazing I I actually I thought that we could we should talk like we're about to have a meeting So i'm actually going to hold my thoughts like don't say it live, but I have I can't believe I can't believe I haven't talked about this on On dts yet. That's I mean no You've mentioned the car game a couple of times, but you really haven't gone into I don't we just don't have time to go into as much depth. Yeah, I think also It's like when you do 50 000 podcasts like you talked about it 49 000 times and you're like well, I've talked about it as much as anybody wants to hear me talk about it And you forget that there's someplace you hadn't talked about it. So yeah, there we go I can taste caramel in my mouth right now, by the way Because I'm going to go to b-suite. Oh my god. I'm so jealous. It makes me want to come over there and have a I'm sorry to bring it up again. If I wasn't just so excited the dentist B-suite is a is a bakery in the you're going to be sweet.  I mean there is one someone sent me in chat yesterday one that has like gold teeth Yeah, like DRAM That sounds just like a brilliant idea So excited for that Please do that. Please. Please do that Oh man Jjo in the house and then you know what else is exciting We're doing our first I can even show you a little bit. We're doing our first Incubated podcast here tonight. Yeah, Jenny's starting a podcast incubator Justin. I'm gonna wear a kimono Well, I have an office. So it's funny. I have this office Here in sort of central Los Angeles And as it turns out it's a reasonably decent place to do up like a three to four to five person podcast And now that I've got all the gear um friends of mine who Hear these various podcasts are coming out of the woodwork and really having their own excellent ideas. And so We're uh, we're we're doing a pilot tonight. It's really exciting. I didn't realize Yeah, I didn't realize what having an office would do In terms of being able to bring people to a place to do a show Now you want I don't know a while ago Veronica and I talked about getting Get an office space I think maybe I wouldn't let me just say let me just say in vote in favor of office space I mean, it's more difficult for you guys where you are Obviously, but um in terms of office space it creates all these weird opportunities That you wouldn't ever think of if you didn't have an office Yeah Like like uh buying rubber bands. Yeah and shooting out the person at the other desk Uh Yeah, I don't know I mean this one right here. This one is like it's a do a little tour. It's 175 square feet It's nothing. Yeah, it's just erecting. Yeah But you could really make something of it if you if you were committed I mean right now that's my friend's desk who's an editor, but if you were committed to Yeah Like making it a podcast space it really would not be that hard to get good sound out of a rectangle You know Oh, sure. Yeah.  You know baffle it up good mics go Good sound out of a rectangle is my a-ha cover band Nice um Yeah Sorry I I I I only didn't say anything because I had something terrible to say and and it would That's a triangle that's Well, I'm just going to text the two of you and I did this in the morning stream too where I had a terrible an awful joke and I I just sent it to Scott and brian and we it was just terrible radio at least this is better because it's in the after show But I used to have to do that in person It's seen it I'd be like I just thought of the worst possible thing to say here I'm just going to write it down so that you don't get the full impact with me saying it out loud Can't wait Jenny which one of us is going to read it out loud wait read what sorry I was responding to 8 000 things in the chat room that I didn't see what are we reading out loud The horrible thing that justin is texting us. Oh, oh exciting. Let me find my phone I have to empty my trash before I can get your your text jason my start Good sound out of a box It's pretty good. That's pretty good. It's actually very accurate. I'm a big fan put it in the chat room put it in the chat room Oh my asthma well, so I guess we're done here. I'm out of the post Uh, thanks kids for watching Great show everybody. Uh, oh, I don't think I mentioned I mentioned it in the chat room, but honey. I shrunk the chips Uh is the title and uh, yeah So, uh, what's coming up? What's coming up later? Today on the diamond clubs and alpha geek radio I know uh neshcom is is going to stream. Um, I don't know if if anything's on thursdays regularly of jiz whiz big is whiz Oh, jeez. Yes, that's right the giz whiz, uh, uh with Back from london england. Oh, I don't know good question Wait, I had there's an actual thing that helps you know the answer to this, which is what I do all the time Oh, it's just next right the exclamation point next in the iris schedule. Yeah Yeah Just whiz and then us again kids whiz. I mean come on please. I don't know hard g soft g They're all the same to me. Oh, it's just very specifically when you make that a j and not a g. It's just a whole different word It's all coming up after this annie linux tribute concert. We'll talk to you tomorrow


All right. Good morning, everyone. We will be starting our session shortly. It's about 11.16 AM, and we have at present nine participants. So let's wait for a few more minutes before we start this session webinar. And at the same time, a quick reminder to all of you to kindly keep your microphones on mute for the duration of the talk. And also, please remember that a Q&A session will be held at the end of the session. So you can feel free to type your questions in the chat window, and we will be picking them up later on. At the same time, you can also switch on your captions, in case the audio zones zones out. The captions will help you keep track of what is being spoken during this webinar. So we'll just wait for a few more minutes before we start the session off. We now have about nine participants. All right. It's 11.20 AM. And I think we will begin the session now as we wait for more people to join in. I assume that they will join in. I think the MF students are finishing up their classes, and they should be here at any minute. But we will honor time. We will start as per our schedule. So to begin with, let me introduce myself. I'm Anjan Bhaira, the assistant dean of the college. And you are welcome to the talk session, being organized today. This is a session which aims at bringing intellectual thinkers from different walks of life and helping them interact with our college students, faculty, staff, and also individuals who are in the state, in Nagaland and beyond. And today we have a very interesting topic that we wish to discuss on and ponder on the legal implications of COVID-19. Basically, what has happened is with the commencement of the lockdown and the commencement of this whole period of uncertainty that India and the world has been pushed towards. It has become unpredictable, life has become unpredictable, as we try to make sense of things that are going on. Now amidst this pandemonium of great confusion lies a constant. And the constant is the law. The law binds the country together. The law keeps the systems running in place. And the law ensures that everything is running right. But at times like this, it's also left very ambiguous. Law is left ambiguous as to the extent to which the law applies. And what of these fundamental rights that were earlier in place for the citizens are now are still in place? Do we still have those rights or not? And apart from that, a lot of other issues also come into play. For example, the public, the way in which the public has been taking the law into their own hands. Some argue that it is for the greater good of the society, yet others argue that by taking the law into their own hand, they are breaking the law. And what is most interesting is that as far as my knowledge goes, that the terms of the lockdown and curfew, what laws are available, what these restrictions are in place during these times are not clearly mentioned in the Constitution either. So we are at the midst of a time where law is being created and shaped as we speak. Because lockdown is not something that is defined by the Constitution as far as my reading goes. The State Disaster Management Act definitely has provisions for complete shutdown. However, the terms are not clearly defined in black and white. And today, addressing those issues, we have Dr. Anuradha Babar from the Department of Political Science, that's so college. And he is someone who is always enthusiastic about organizing such talks and sharing his views and ideas with the world. He is a non-practicing lawyer who is the founder member of the People's Law Center at Mumbai. And he is a researcher as well, independently working towards various kinds of studies. At the same time, he defines himself as a poet by heart, a philosopher by nature, and an adventurer by soul. His areas of interest include constitutional law, tribal studies, Southeast Asian studies, applied politics, gender studies, peace and conflict studies, and most importantly, human rights. And so he is going to be speaking to us and sharing his ideas on this topic, the legal implications of COVID-19. So without taking much time, I now hand over the time to our guest speaker. Others, please note, in the interest of keeping down the background noise, kindly keep your microphones on mute. You can use the chat window to type your questions, which will be picked up in the Q&A session at the end of this talk. So I now hand over the time to our guest speaker. Dr. Anuradha Babar, please take over your time. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. Good morning, all of you. Good morning. Most important thing at the outset, I would like to share my sincere gratitude for allowing me this platform to share my thoughts and ideas. World is changing. We are undergoing a strange kind of transformation. Our lifestyle had changed. The way we perceived reality has also changed. COVID-19 has changed our perspective towards the nature, towards our life, and towards our entire world. This has been a much-awaited opportunity for me, because I have been observing, even in the media, that the legal implications of COVID-19 has not much been talked about. Because as Mr. Teen has rightly mentioned, that our entire life has been governed by law. The moment you are born, till your last breath, everything is governed by the law. Everything is governed by the system. Now, what law is that applicable to this new life of lockdown? Where are we following those laws? What is the root of those laws? And the most important thing, that whether are we aware about this system, which is somehow influencing our life on day-to-day basis during this lockdown? I am allotted 20 odd minutes, and I will try my level best to share my thoughts, share my ideas with all of you. Questions are always welcome. OK, so as we all are aware, that coronavirus disease 2019 is an infectious disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome, that is coronavirus 2, which is also scientifically known as SARCOV2. This disease has been first identified in December 2009 in one of the provinces of China called Wuhan, which is also a capital of China's Hubei region. At present, more than 3 million people have been infected worldwide around 197,000 people have died. This is what the official record says. And if you take a record of India, somewhat we are able to manage, but still we have more than 24,000 infections and close to 850 deaths at this point of time. So this helps us to understand, this bird's eye view is helps us to understand the trajectory of this COVID-19 pandemic. Now the question is, what strategies has been implemented all over the world and also including India to tackle this COVID-19 pandemic? Let me first clear one thing, that since last 100 years, we have never experienced this type of disease before. Of course, there were diseases, there were epidemics, swine flu we have seen, different types of SARS we have seen, and we have also seen the Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome. We have seen Ebola. But if you take a statistical record of the impact of those diseases all over the world, then you will find that the impact was contained in specific geopolitical pockets. That was not, in short, that was not an international emergency. If you compare with the impact of this COVID-19, COVID-19 is an international emergency. See, Ebola had no direct impact on Asian countries. Ebola never had any direct impact on European countries. Even the Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome did not have any impact in Indian subcontinent. So containment was there, and containment was possible while tackling those types of diseases. But when it comes to COVID-19, the major feature of COVID-19 is it's an international emergency. And to tackle this international emergency, which has created havoc all over the world, different countries have developed different strategies. But let me tell you, there is no much difference among those strategies because one country, it seems one country is learning from another country. So basically, how to tackle with this epidemic, how to tackle with this international emergency is not something that we are developing on our own, but it is something that we are learning from each other. So from my perspective, a couple of strategic responses are available at our disposal. But before moving to them, let us first understand the gravity of the pandemic. Millions of people have been infected. Thousands of people have been died. The entire world got into lockdown. And most importantly, my dear friends, there is no vaccine available as of now. There are many news cropping up that one country is developing this vaccine, that vaccine. Some countries are advancing towards animal trials, trials on human beings, so on and so forth. But at this point of time, as of now, 28th of April, 2020, we do not have any vaccine at our disposal. So that makes this threat very serious, this threat very grave. Now, in the absence of vaccine, what other responses can we level against the threat of COVID-19? Let me first tell you, all over the world, I mean, all the administration as well as the medical experts have unanimously agreed that social distancing or, say, physical distancing has been considered as one of the robust response, robust strategic response to control the spread of COVID-19.  What is the meaning of total lockdown? Your shops will be closed, your economic affairs will be closed, your day-to-day affairs will be closed. Basically, the complete system, the economic system, the social system will be in a complete lockdown. Then another response, which is also very important, which has been leveled against COVID-19, is emphasis on personal hygiene. How to wash your hands? You should not touch your eyes. You should not touch your nose. You have to maintain three feet of distance while talking with a person. You have to wear masks. You have to take care of your eyes, so on and so forth. Now, another question comes is, what is another important feature of the strategic responses? The other feature of strategic response is active policing. Now, it sounds very odd, because I was talking about the medical terms, like personal hygiene, this act. But suddenly, this word active policing comes. Now, let me tell you one thing very clearly. This kind of world that we are trapped in at this point of time or rather dragged in this kind of situation, we are not used to it. So my observation is that people do not know what is to be done. I mean, let me, because I have been following the trajectory of this disease since last December. When it was in China, China was not willing to share complete information. So we were in dark at this point of time. But still, whatever information was leaking out from Wuhan, made us believe that something unparalleled, which we have never experienced before in our lifetime, is happening in China. And then finally, this turned out to be true. Now, because of this, we are still in confusion that how to behave, how not to behave. So some guidelines have been issued. And it has been seen that those guidelines, those regulations, those rules, which I'm talking about during the course of my talk, they are not actually being understood by the people. I mean, this is my conclusion. I mean, if you want to take a bird's eye view, and if you want to understand that in what way the people are complying with the latest rules and regulations and the laws, then you will find that many people are not able to comply because they either ignore the rules and regulations, or they might not be aware of those rules and regulations. We are going to talk about them in detail. So active policing is also another important strategic response that India has also levered and also the other countries have also levered. Then invocation of special laws. We have invoked special kind of laws. Have you ever heard before, Epidemic Disease Act? No, I was a lawyer before becoming a professor of political science. I was a lawyer. And I personally, let me tell you, I've never heard this law before. The Epidemic Disease Act. It is a colonial legislation. We are using that. Rather, we are compelled to use this colonial legislation at this point of time. So you can understand the complexity and the gravity of this pandemic. Now, let us understand the case of India. I would like to discuss some challenges to implement those strategic responses that I have given you in a nutshell just a moment back. So let us first understand what is the first challenge that India is facing. The first challenge is a social distancing and lockdown and its public response. See, the idea of social distancing and lockdown is completely new in the context of India. It is said that Indians are argumentative people. Indians love to be with each other all the time. So basically, our social ties are very close. So the idea about social distancing, idea about lockdown, idea about living in the solitude, doing nothing, it's actually culturally very strange to India. So it is very interesting to actually understand that how Indians actually responded to social distancing in the earlier days of lockdown or lockdown policy, you may call it. So in this case, you will be surprised to know that many people got confused. For references, you can go through the news headlines. You can go through different newspapers. And then you will conclude, you will also conclude that nobody knows what's happening. The gravity of the situation was not actually comprehended by a common Indian public. But as the statistics started coming up, as information started coming up, the second thing that we have witnessed is the first is ignorance. The second is panicking. So people started getting panicked. Now what happened is that due to this panicking, again, people were not able to understand what is their duty in this unique scenario. Moreover, we have also witnessed carelessness of people. We have also witnessed that how people were started roaming on the empty streets. Basically, what the medical experts have been trying to say is that social distancing takes the end of spreading the virus. And unfortunately, at the initial stage, I believe, many people were not able to understand this entire term of breaking the chain or breaking the cycle of the virus. And collectively, because of the problems that the people's ignorance have created or people's carelessness have created, that collective problems have imposed a serious challenge upon police administration. And we have to accept that. We have to accept that. What happened at Merkur's or what happened in different parts of India? Since I have very less time in my hand, I need not go into the detail. But what does it show? What does it show? Either it shows ignorance, point number one. Either it shows complete disregard for the law of the land, number two. And number three, either it disregards complete carelessness. Now this is the problem. And in this situation, the entire police administration had to function. But what's the result? On one hand, it was very difficult to contain people. Then on the other hand, it was very difficult to control the infection graph. Then as a result, what happened? The infection graph kept on rising. The statistics is available widely on internet. If you just Google it out, you will come to know. Now, another question that this talk is all about is the legal implications of COVID-19. So far, I have given you a little bit idea about the strategic responses, the challenges that the police administration have faced so far. Now let us talk about the technical aspect of it. Now see, there are certain sections which has been invoked during this COVID-19 pandemic. I'll just introduce you to those sections. Let us start from Indian Penal Code. I'm carrying my bear act with me. So for your information, let us start with Section 88 of Indian Penal Code. So what does Section 88 of Indian Penal Code talks about? It talks about disobedience to order duly promulgated by the public servant. What does it say? Disobedience to order duly promulgated by the public servant. Now what does it mean? See, any order which is being issued by any public servant, I'm not going to give you a definition of public servant, but public servant includes civil service officers, as well as any person who is attached to perform public duties. So those orders which has been issued by any public servant and those order are being not followed properly in letter and spirit. Then there is a punishment involved in that. Punishment is one month of imprisonment or fine. And if the gravity of the offense increases, then the punishment of imprisonment can increase up to six months also. Now why I have been pointed this particular section? Because let me tell you, in this entire chaos, this section has been invoked. Because this particular section provides immunity to the civil servants as well as the police officers. Like for example, at local level, certain regulations and certain rules are also being promulgated. Certain orders have been promulgated. And if a common man is not following them, either it is being promulgated by executive magistrate or it is promulgated by a district magistrate, then that is amount to disobedience. And if a person is accused of disobedience and if subsequently he is convicted, then one month imprisonment or if the disobedience is grave in nature, then six months of imprisonment is provided in section 188 of IPC. The second section, which has been seen commonly in working in this COVID-19 scenario in India, is that that is section 269. Now this is section 269. Now listen to me very carefully. What does this section tells us? It tells us negligent act likely to spread infection of disease dangerous to life. And let me tell you, number of FIRs in Bombay, number of FIRs in Gujarat have been filed under section 269. Especially in case of the Marcus case, because of that, the hotspot has been created in Nizamuddin area of Delhi. People have been charged under section 269. Now what is section 269 talks about? Negligent act likely to spread infection of disease dangerous to life. Subsequently, section 270 has also been invoked. Section 270 speaks about malignant act likely to spread infection of disease dangerous to life. Now see, the gravity of the offenses under section 269 and under 270 is different. Under section 269, for negligent act under section 269, the punishment would be six months and five. And under section 270, any malignant act likely to spread infection, a punishment would be imprisonment of two years. Now please understand. Along with this, there is section 271 also. I think section 271 of IPC has not been promulgated as such. But still for the information of viewers, let me share with you. Section 271 provides that disobedience of quarantine rule is subject to six months imprisonment or a fine. But let us not get confused. Section 271 is only applicable to the vessels. Especially I'm talking about sea vessels. What does it says? Section 271 talks about disobedience to quarantine rule. Whoever knowingly disobeys any rule made and promulgated by the government for putting any vessel into a state of quarantine or for regulating the intercourse of vessel in a state of quarantine with the shore or with other vessel or for regulating the intercourse between places where an infectious disease prevails and other places shall be punished with the imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to six months or with fine. It simply talks about quarantine in the vessel, especially it talks about the sea vessel. Let me tell you the background of this section. Can somebody recall that what happened exactly 100 years ago? A similar kind of situation occurred, but the disease was different. What type of disease was that? That was Spanish flu, Spanish fever or Spanish flu or something like that. And if you take this Indian Penal Code, this Indian Penal Code was drafted in 1860. So this 271, what happened in Spanish flu is that many people were quarantined on the sea vessels. I mean, they were mostly sailors. They were not allowed to get down on the shores. And those who try to break the quarantine rule, they were subject to six months of imprisonment or fine. So this was the law that was promulgated 100 years ago at that point of time. Now, simultaneously, this is what I have spoken about, Indian Penal Code, section 188, section 269, section 270 and section 271. Let us move. Now let us move to criminal procedure code. Now, what does the criminal procedure code has to say? See, we all heard about section 144, curfew. Many people who are not well-worsened with the law, they are also now very familiar with section 144. Exo-Chavalis, they talk, as they say in Hindi. See, basically 144 talks about curfew orders. Okay. Now, curfew can be promulgated by executive magistrate or maybe district magistrate at any point of time. Now, what powers does the executive magistrate, commissionerate or district magistrate enjoy under section 144 is that any person can be arrested who is jumping curfew orders or who is flouting curfew orders, right? And let me just draw your attention to certain situations wherein this has happened in reference to latest COVID-19 situation. Can you believe it?  More than 600 FIRs have been filed under section 144 of CRPC. I mean, it is beyond my understanding. And if I take a defense that, oh my God, sir, I was not aware about this curfew order. I was not aware about section 144. I was not aware about my own responsibility under section 144. Then let me tell you, law has given certain defenses, certain valid defenses to accuse, right? Ignorance is not a defense. Ignorance is not a legal defense. I mean, if I'm accused and if I go to the court and if I say that I'm sorry, my Lord, I was not aware about the law, then the judge will definitely tell you that my dear, this ignorance is not a valid defense in the eyes of law. So it is a duty of every citizen of India to familiarize himself or herself about every rule, every regulation, every law, every ordinance which is prevalent in the state. That is very important. So I really want to talk about section 144 of CRPC. Many FIRs have been filed. More over section 123. Dr. Anuradha, if I may quickly interrupt in the interest of time, I would request you to wind the session in about four to five minutes. So we can move on to the question. Thank you so much. Yes, sir. I will do that. I will do that. So after 144, we move to section 133. That talks about conditional order for removal of noisons by district magistrate, right? So 133 has also been promulgated, right? But unfortunately, what we have seen is people have flouted that also. Then as I was requested to wrap up my session within a few minutes, I'll just give you a bird's eye view. Then we have the Epidemic Disease Act. So section two, section three, and section four of Epidemic Disease Act has been promulgated. Then we moved to the Disaster Management Act under section five of Disaster Management Act. Central government have declared this COVID-19 as a national disaster. Then we have also moved to a couple of more acts that is Essential Service Management Act, right? Have you heard about it? The medical services comes under Essential Services Management Act. Then have you heard about the Essential Goods Management Act, right? The masks and all essential commodities, I apologize. It is Essential Commodities Management Act, okay? So your masks and medical equipments are all listed under Essential Commodities Management Act. Then we move to Constitution. Article 47 of the Constitution says that the state has a paramount duty for nutrition, security, and the standard of living and improvement of public health.  Why state is doing what it's supposed to do? Why lockdown? Why, you know, the medical staff is working 24 hours? You know, everything is covered under Article 47 that says that the state has a paramount duty for nutrition, security, and the standard of living and improving of public health. Then entry 29 of the Concurrent List under the Constitution empowers the central as well as state governments to legislate on the matters pertaining to the prevention of infection or contagious diseases, right? So please understand that in Nagaland, we have, you know, our own, you know, the act which has been promulgated by the state of Nagaland to tackle the menace of COVID-19, right? Which is a result of entry 29. And then entries one and six of state list talks about the governments are empowered to deal with the matters related to public health and public order. So this is the legal genesis of the acts which are prevalent at this point of time. Okay, now another question. Let me just quickly, you know, take your attention is to the privacy. Under K Puttu Swami versus Union of India, it is clearly mentioned in the Supreme Court, take down the case K Puttu Swami versus Union of India. The release of personal data has become a privacy concern and has been stated as a gross violation of the legitimate expectation of privacy. We have seen that people who have been infected or those who have been suspicious to be infected with COVID-19, their names haven't released, their photographs haven't released. Those people have been discriminated in the eyes of the people and by the people. This is absolutely not acceptable in the civilized society. This is not acceptable in the constitutional democracy, right? So Supreme Court has rightly mentioned its view that the release of personal data has become a privacy concern and has been stated as a gross violation of the legitimate expectation of a privacy, okay? Then there are some other arguments which are coming, you know, about Arup-Gir Setu app also that attracts the movement and healthy tells among other people data of the users of breach of personal data. So this is also raising privacy concerns. Only future will tell us what is it all about? Then, you know, in Nagaland, we have Nagaland Epidemic Disease Regulations Act. As I told you that Essential Service Management Act is very much present all over India. Essential Commodities Act is very much present all over India in supplement with relevant regulations under Indian Penal Code and CRPC and Disaster Management Act. Now coming to the conclusion. See, extraordinary measures are necessary to tackle extraordinary circumstances and the entire world is witnessing that, you know? But my humble submission is that let us allow ourselves to familiarize with the laws. Law of land must be respected. We are a part of a very different situation now, right? So it is not just a duty of the medical professional to protect us from the disease. It is also a duty of ourselves, right? Our duty to fight COVID-19 and also our duty to follow the rules and regulations promulgated from time to time by the state government, by the central government, you know? And let me reiterate once again that ignorance of law is neither an excuse nor a legal defense. It will never help you in case you are caught by the, or you are caught in the, you know, hands of the law enforcement agencies. Let us obey the laws. Let us fight COVID-19. The time has come to unite and fight COVID-19. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Dr. Nirodha. It was an informative session. It was so good to actually learn about the various articles and various, you know, prospects that are, that the Indian law has for us. And what is important that I realized during your talk is that at moments like this, we citizens should actually have a first hand information of the law, then depend on the news channels and other sources to tell us what the law is. I mean, that is our, that we should be aware of our rights because I mean, we know right now news channels are primary sources of information to what extent can we actually trust them. And so at this juncture, it actually becomes very important to be familiar with these particular articles, okay, provisions that the law has for us. So thank you so much for giving us all those, all those new information. And so sorry, we have to cut you short, but that is only in the interest of time. So I leave the session open now for any questions that can be asked. I think since there's only nine of us, what I will kind of, you know, maybe ask our audiences if you have questions, please switch on your microphone and ask a question directly. Since there's just a few of us, I think we can just use that. Otherwise, if you do not have a proper sound connection, you can always use the chat window to type in your question, but otherwise, let's use the microphone and speak to each other directly for this Q&A session. So I give the time now for any questions that the audience might have. Okay, I have a question, okay. Anira, thanks so much for the session. I think this was needed and it's very helpful, you know, for everyone who's attending, I wish more could have attended, but I think this time, even though we have nine of us here, I'm sure it's educated a lot of us, all of us here. So one thing that I liked about what you said was that, you know, you mentioned that ignorance is just not an excuse, you know, for not being aware of the law or for not, you know, even being aware of your rights. Ignorance is not an excuse and I think students really need to know that, you know, so that was, that was, that's an important point, simple basic, but an important point I felt. And then what I wanted to ask basically was about, what is your opinion on this case where in Dimapur we had Raja Jain who was, right, COVID positive and we say that we, every patient has a basic right of their, you know, identity not being revealed of their case history address, but then we saw that names were splashed out, right? Identities were revealed, addresses, phone numbers and in the case of Raja Jain, I think the government itself decided that they mentioned, right? If you saw in the notification that it was necessary for his identity to be revealed in order to prevent the spread of the virus. And so what about instances like that, you know? And that's my first question. The second one is with regard to the Shilong case, we had a family, a doctor who had expired because of the COVID-19 case and his family was under quarantine in their house, whereas the government had made provisions for a quarantine facility that all affected members would have to go to the quarantine facility and quarantine there and be institutionalized. But in this case, the family I heard was not taken to the quarantine facility because Konrad had mentioned that he's giving time to the family, you know, because of the demise of the father. And so they were not taken to the quarantine facility. So my question here is like, if families would like to quarantine on their own in their own respective homes, you know, as opposed to the law or as opposed to the notification, the rule that's been given by the state government to, you know, be institutionalized, what wouldn't that can, is that an option? Can we call that as a basic human right to want to be, you know, to recuperate at home rather than an institutional quarantine? Is Dr. Ruta, you can respond. Thank you, Dr. Rewaza, thank you for your question. See, these are certain basic question that needs to be answered. Let us start with the case of Raja Jain, okay. We all know what happened to Raja Jain, how we reached to Guwahati and what's the present status of this case. However, the most important thing is the identity revelation, right? Supreme court has clearly stated with reference to right to privacy that the identity should not be released. And on the contrary, the state government by virtue of its notification has clearly stated that the identity revelation is necessary, you know, to stop spreading disease or to let the people know that who is he, right? Let me tell you one more interesting thing. This Aarugya app, okay, I was talking about that. This Aarugya app has also raised certain questions regarding the privacy, right? Like for example, your movements are recorded, you know, your health status is recorded. Where are you going? Whom are you meeting? So basically what my understanding is that in this case, in reference to specific situations, I call it a situational response, right? Now on one hand, Supreme court has clearly mentioned that your privacy is your right, okay? It has not been stated as a fundamental right, but it is your right. And your right is required to be protected by the state law, okay, in all the circumstances. But dear friends, what I understand is that we are dealing with extraordinary circumstances. See, let me tell you, Raja Jain has its one case, okay? But there were a few more cases also which came up. Like for example, one case of one girl came up, right? And thousands of rumors started spreading, you know, about the COVID status of that girl. Okay, it happened. I mean, I know, I'm familiar with this case. Then about, then one old man who visited maybe some, I don't know, some religious place, he came back. I think Marcos Wala, that Marcos Wala came to Burma camp and his pictures and all the information started to be circulated and police started taking an action. And don't you think that it's a contradiction? And let me tell you why this is contradiction because in this case, you know, the government in Raja's case, government has decided to reveal his identity in the interest of public welfare, right? Now under what rule, under what regulation of Nagaland COVID rules, this has been done. I'm not aware of it, right? We have to go into the details of Nagaland COVID rules 2020. There is one regulation which is in function at this point of time in Nagaland, right? So we have to see whether that provision is there in the rules or not. If it is not there, then definitely Raja's family, you know, can take state to concern high court, you know, and file, you know, repetition against the action of the state. Okay, because Supreme Court has already settled the position. But now here I'm just talking in terms of ifs and buts. Okay, because we are dealing with extraordinary circumstances. But as per the notification, they have clearly mentioned that, you know, in the public interest to stop the spreading of the virus and this and that, right? They have taken this decision. Now, the validity of the decision of the government has to be decided by the concern court, right? And that validity of the decision will be decided if Raja's family decides to move against the move of the state and challenge it before the, you know, either high court or before the Supreme Court. Because for me, I'm completely in a position to say that it's a violation of individual right. If suppose, if the state is like, for example, what happened in HIV cases, right? There is a privacy clause. Okay, and Supreme Court has also declared that no HIV cases will ever be revealed. But still rumors are spreading about the people who are being infected about HIV or who may not be infected with HIV. This is unfortunately what exactly is happening with the COVID-19. Social discrimination is everywhere. So if that is the case, then who gave government right to declare his name? I actually, I was so surprised when this came in the news, right? That was not necessary. We have other ways to protect what government talks about, you know, the spreading of the coronavirus. We should not take one person responsible for, you know, the spreading of the outbreak and this and that. So what my understanding is that if we want to test the validity of the notification, number one, we have to go to, we have to go through the current COVID-19 rules, you know, given by this Nagaland State Assembly, right? And second, it depends on the family and Mr. Raja himself if he wants to challenge what has government done and if he's not happy or if he thinks that his right is violated, he can move to High Court and Supreme Court. Definitely there is a case. I mean, I'm very open about that. Even I was so surprised. Any lawyer will be surprised, okay? After reading that notification. Now when it comes to this question number two, okay? That talks about quarantine, right? Okay, so can we quarantine ourselves in the house? Okay, let me tell you once again. There are some cases, okay? Where in people have tried to quarantine themselves in the house, okay? But they were not allowed. Like what happened in Maharashtra, one family, okay? They were willing to, you know, quarantine themselves in the house, but state government did not allow them. Now the question is, can exception be made? My question, the question is, can exception be made? Now see, exception we cannot make. It is law or the policy maker has to make an exception. So therefore, I am, yeah, sir, cool, one second. Yes, yes, okay. So the question is, logically, we can say that yes, I am capable to take care of myself. And yes, sir, cool, yeah, sure, sure, sure. I'm just concluding the second answer. Yeah, so basically, it depends on the government, not depends on us. Yeah, so whether to quarantine ourselves or whether not to quarantine ourselves, are they quarantine themselves? Yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, yes. Okay, yes, second question. Kulu, you can go ahead with your question, sir. Thanks, thanks, Anirul, I think I'm done. See, Anirul, just one heads up, because we have lack of time, we're probably gonna need the answers a bit short. So I just wanna know, based on your experience, or whatever you're aware of, has there been a precedent for, is there a case where somebody has sued the government for disobeying its own order? Are you aware of any? Yeah, there are many cases. Yes, yes, yes, yes, there are many cases. There are many cases. Government has equaled up with this question. There are cases. Yes, there are cases. What did they get? What did they sue the governments for? Was it money? Was it reinstatement? What were the damages? Are you aware of any? I just wanna, yes or no? A couple of cases are there, a couple of cases are there. Okay, if the government servant, there is a government rule in existence, and governments are acting in contradiction with the rule in substance, okay? Rule in prevalence, then definitely the action has been taken. And if the party has initiated, then the damages has been asked, definitely. Like for example, especially in case of Rajas, okay? When the privacy of the person is at stake, right? And the notification which has been issued, what is the legal standing of notification? It's still a big question. What is the constitutional standing of the notification?  What, whether they were awarded anything? Were they awarded cash, or how did they compensate? See, the damage... I mean, to add to it, has the basement resolved as such, or is there no resolution till date? No, no, no. The cases has been resolved. Cases has been resolved. Whenever the instances happen, when government servants, government officers, they are contravening their own orders, contravening their own directions, okay? Then the cases can be moved against them, okay? With relevant repetitions. And yes, the damages have been awarded, the reliefs have been awarded, okay? So if, suppose there's a personal loss because of the actions of the government servant, the personal loss has occurred to whom, right? Then to tackle that, I can ask for damages. That is very much possible. And there are so many precedents available. I mean, I'm not able to recall the cases, but yes, there are case laws. Why not? Okay, fine. I just wanted to know whether you were able to recall any. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Dr. Anuradha. I think since we are running short of time, we will not take any more questions right now, but I am going to pose Dr. Anuradha's email ID. We can continue the discussion with him over email after this session is done as well. I myself had a question which I wanted to ask, but yes, I'll carry it over with him in person. So thank you so much, everyone, for having joined us for this session. It has been quite helpful for all of us. And thank you so much for all of you. And I wish you stay safe. And yeah, thank you so much. So this end our session here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.