to allow development of new companies known in this area as unicorns. To answer this question, I have five panelists with me starting by Brazil, with Marco Pespo, who is president of the startup Gimpass. Also, we have Andy Freire, as a legislator in Buenos Aires, and someone well-known in the entrepreneurship area. And also, Argentinian, we have Hernán Casac, that is co-founder of Casac Ventures from Mexico. We have Enrique Ortegon, COO of Salesforce, and from Israel, Dr. Ami Aboudan, who works for the Ministry of Economy and Industry of Israel. So I will leave you with a debate. I would like to give the floor to two businessmen that we are entrepreneurs here with us. Two of them will express or raise a question for the panelists to answer. First, Luisa Ribeiro. What is the question that you would like to have answered in this debate? My voice. I hope you can all hear me. I'm going to make an effort. Yeah, better. So my question is, we've seen recently, very recently, three cases of unicorns here in Brazil. And they all have very similar characteristics. They're male. They were educated abroad. They have a lot of good access. They are very well-connected and very good access to capital and to foreign capital. My question is, how can we foster? How can we enable our own ecosystem to make sure that we have the traditional entrepreneurs that were educated in our countries to actually become the next unicorn? Thank you very much. Gracias, Luisa. Also, we have Tima T1. I'll note, a company based in the United States. So as I was thinking about what question to ask, I was thinking about a larger debate that we're having actually in our country about startups that are being started outside of Silicon Valley in New York and these traditional power tech sectors. And so two-part question, I guess, the first part is, what obstacles do you see for startups that are getting started outside of any types of these categorical sectors? And then secondly, what types of sectors and niches and industries do you think are going to break out here specifically in Latin America as they overcome these traditional challenges of access to capital networks and expert networks and whatnot? Gracias, Luisa. Gracias, Tima. Bueno, pues ahí están las dos preguntas. Thank you, Luisa. Thank you, Tima. So we have the two questions of the startup entrepreneurs. But before trying to answer, I would like to develop a little bit, elaborate on the term unicorns because people that are watching through Dolce Valley probably do not have very clear what are unicorns. Marco, can you give us an idea of what a unicorn is? Well, the concept are companies whose valuation is more than $1 billion, something rare in the market. That's why we call it unicorn. But for the entrepreneur is a mystic entity. I don't know or mythic entity. I don't know if this is the most important point for the entrepreneur or should be focusing on a topic that is important for society or for companies, for businesses. Something that coincides with all the unicorns is that they are solving a critical issue for a group of people. And the larger the group, the better the solution and the larger the size of the company. But the focus should be executing very well the solution we find as entrepreneurs. And from that point grow to the world. Do you share this opinion or do you have anything to add? I share the idea. The unicorn concept is unidimensional in the evaluation of the company, which is the reflex of many things, actually. But it is important to think on how to find companies that have an impact in economic development, generating employment position, sustainable. And if we embed that in the unicorn concept, welcome unicorns. I hope we can generate many in the region. If the concept is how the entrepreneur force their business model, how they force their relationship with investors, then I think it's not as healthy. I fully agree. I came from Silicon Valley and I know instead of the concept unicorn, I'd rather be a common horse. I was a little bit anxious before coming to this panel because it's after lunch. I hope you are awake. And how can we take these companies, the mythic evaluation of $1 billion company? I don't know if it is the correct definition. I don't know if the $1 billion evaluation is good or not. And this may be the issue is solving a significant problem for the region. Because we know that in this life, the life of startups is a question mark for Latin America. And we have to think on how to develop companies that solve significant issues that create jobs, solve, and really help solving significant problems for us. Representing the local capital market, something that we lack. And also I'm very happy to hear all the efforts that are being carried out to reduce the friction for small companies to create their own companies, small businesses to develop their own companies. So I'm very happy to be here. I like, Hernan surprised me with his focus, being a co-founder of one of the most successful unicorns to propose that. Coming from the business world to the political world, one of the things I learned is that it's very important to have unicorns. Because somehow they path away for a society that want to offer a possibility for people to prosper and to endeavor and create a revolution in their professional social lives. But as a politician in the Ministry of Innovation, when we work with all kinds of innovators, we are talking more about ordinary horses, local horses, crossbreed horses, because they move the economy. I'm not minimizing the role of unicorns in fostering the capital markets and inspiring a whole society, thinking that a prosperous future is possible. But when we see the hard figures that 90% of jobs are generated by small and media-sized companies and people need a job to carry on in Latin America, I think we should focus and we should have a panel in crossbreed horses and not only unicorns. In this Latin America panel, we have an outsider, which is Ami. Ami, I would like to know a little bit about how Israel works, a country with 8 million inhabitants. How did you strengthen and have an entrepreneur assistant that is so strong and so consolidated? How is your experience? I just wanted also to answer about the unicorn, but maybe we'll get to this later. You can do it. So yes, I'm coming from Israel. Around less than 8 million people population, which is surrounded with very friendly neighbors that you all hear on the news quite frequently. And we are not from the Silicon Valley. Yet, Israel managed to have multiple unicorns. And I want to make a comment about the unicorn that that is just a symbol of success. That's not really the essence of what the startup and what the digital revolution is about to do. So I think that what we really want is to have a long, sustainable, successful company that will provide a better life for the inhabitants, but more than that for the all-human being. And when you go in a company small as Israel and you talk about unicorn, you can imagine that the revenue and the sales and the thought and the strategy is not how to sell to the 8 million people. It's global thinking from day one. And I want to address the question from the audience here about networking and about how to develop those unicorn and why it is segmented to just male and not female. So we realized a long time ago that in order to have a successful infrastructure and successful startups, it's got to be global because talent are everywhere. There is no one place, one geographical place where the talent. And I challenge, I know that there is a lot of talent in the Silicon Valley. But I tell you what, all the major technology companies from the Silicon Valley has R&D offices in Israel. Indication that there are talent also in Israel, many. And many companies have also in India and China. So one, it's a global talent. Second, what you, Israel has now more than 380 foreign companies that have R&D in Israel, more than 380. Some have only R&D and all the major companies being Google and Facebook and Apple and IBM, they're all coming to Israel to have R&D. Many of them have R&D engineering and some have R&D engineering and manufacturing. So to be global, you want to get this high tech actually to solve the world, the human being issues and to solve human being problem and challenges and not necessarily your own country. So I heard here a lot in Brazil, well, we are looking only on Brazil. And we try to solve Brazilian issues. Let me tell you something. Brazilian issues of water cleanliness, energy are common to many, many other countries. So the soul should be how we're going to address the local and then distributed worldwide. Like Israel have the cyber technology. Every country today in the world have cyber challenges. Israel is one of the leading, precision farming. Israel is one of the leading. I can go on and on, but I will let others speak. Thank you. Thank you. Amy, you're saying that unicorn companies can serve as an inspiration. From what other point of view can unicorn companies be useful or the crossbred horses? I think we need both. Unicorns have this role of inspiration. So any businessman believe it is possible to build a company and to dream of it. But also to the capital market. We go to the world and say that companies that achieve this milestone, $1 billion, and provide very good income to the investors that started. So with that, we have much more venture capital in Argentina, not a long ago. We passed a bill of law to create this incentive. I think Israel also have an incentive of the government to improve the performance or the yield for the venture capital companies. So I would like to answer a little bit the question about why are there all people that studied in Harvard and Stanford are the success cases? Well, first of all, where did we come from? Myself and Edna, we know for a long while when we started SoftNet. And we were the crazy ones that left the corporate life to start a company, start a business. We were the exception to the rule. No one thought of that. Our parents, my mother said, why are you living your job at Procter & Gamble? And she was pressuring me. And we advanced a lot. And now everybody wants to endeavor as a profession. And the challenge is a lot of people want to endeavor as a profession, not due to a need, but to a vocation. And we need to provide the tools. This is the challenge. And these are 10-year cycles. And now those who created unicorns 10 years ago, and those who are thinking now didn't study at Stanford or Harvard. And we have to help them to become the unicorns 10 years from now. If we do so, we will be a more prosperous region. Now we will know what you're saying, how to provide the tools. Well, there's something positive in unicorns. Not everything is bad. Because I believe that there's something similar in all of them is that they are solving current problems. So the endeavors in Latin America, instead of considering just their local problems, consider also global problems. So we are looking to a problem which is the physical inactivity of people, which is a global problem. All the states have a problem with health, or obesity, absenteeism. This is a problem not only for Brazil, but all the markets and all the countries and companies. So we decided not to focus only in Brazil, which would be great. Only working in Brazil would be already very interesting. But we want to work beyond the frontiers and endeavor in other countries, nothing as opening. Oh, but it's like studying in a new city. Like we leave for Sao Paulo and go to Rio, or go to Buenos Aires. The challenge to do that, and if we have ambition to be global, it goes much beyond that. Complimenting what Andy said, and answering the second part of Louisa's question, of course the unicorns are good. My criticism is the unidimensional definition of a company of $1 billion. If it is a company of impact, it's good for the ecosystem because it brings stability from outwards in, attract investors. And very important, it generates a virtuous cycle where from larger companies it starts to create more talents. And these talents start to found new companies. And the successful investors start to invest in the local system. So to start, maybe we need those people to come from abroad to force the change. But then it starts to generate an endogenous movement, which is good for the economies in Argentina. For instance, this is happening with a free trade. In Brazil, it's also happening through different companies. This is something very good, generally speaking. We need this first generation so we can have more local endeavors. One more question. It's a very interesting topic, but this goes from the assumption that we have a way out, an exit mechanism for companies, e-commerce, in the Silicon Valley, for example, considering the IPOs. Results that were not successful. So they kept going, rising and rising. And then the executives wanted to, of course, consider the $1 billion valuation and stick to that, which is interesting. But it indicates there is an exit mechanism that actually lead to these amounts, these values. The employees can then, of course, capitalize and have this multiplier effect. So our last cue, we've worked in different countries. What is your opinion on the maturity level of these exit mechanisms? It's not clear to us. We don't believe. I don't think I would say there's a very easy way out for companies also taking into account all of the employees. You might have benefits for the group of founders, CEO, but how are we doing in terms of maturity level? But anyone like to comment on this? La pregunta. The goal of success, but that's the end of the story. Let's go to the beginning of the story. The beginning of the story, for every country, you need the ecosystem that will promote based on its culture and based on its situation will promote the success. The first and the foremost, and I'm saying it here, even in what I heard maybe not will be popular, the government have to understand that in order to develop prosperity and develop innovation, there is some action as regulation, as supporting academia, that need to happen. Because if not, it should be very difficult. Then you need the fund. You need the mechanism that private investor will be willing to come and invest. You need to take a lot of the bureaucracy and regulation down so you stimulate it. Then you need startups. And you want startups that other will not agree to invest in and give you an example. Everyone probably heard about the mobila in Israel, that Intel bought for $15 billion. 15 years ago, no one would talk about autonomous car. But in Israel, we had, for 44 years, we have the chief scientist. Now it's Israel Innovation Authority. And we pay money where there is a market failure. What does it mean market failure? That no businessman will put money. But we, the Israel Innovation Authority, are willing to put money because the opportunity is big and then the risk is big. And market fail to support it. So put the money where the market failure. And for example, now, what is the next wave of success? We all know about digital age. What will be after? Is any of the investor willing to put money on the next generation of technology? No one know what it is. But there is a lot of research in the academia. So promote your academia, promote your infrastructure. And last and not least, I think every country have a different culture. And that's a key element to understand. If I go to Japan, and I did, and talk with them about, you know what, there are two types of startups, I said. One that succeed. And the other one who had enough money for the second project. Because most of the first project, and here we have entrepreneur, they can tell you, every entrepreneur goes also through failures. Most of them go only through the second. So think about culture that do not accept failure. Which is, failure is devastating for them. You have to, this culture has to be changing. You have to accept failure. Because we all failing and succeeding and failing and succeeding. We hope that the overall the success will be more the failure. But the society, the mothers that see her son fail in the startup should not feel bad about him. She should ask him, okay, what are the root cause? What are the conclusion? Here I give you more money to go to the second one, I trust you. And going back to what Andy said, as a legislator in Buenos Aires, Andy talked about the government obstacles for entrepreneurs who have to grapple with the bureaucracy, the red tape. And it's a time consuming process they have to go through before they reach their goal. What has been done in Buenos Aires? Well, first and foremost, I should point out that these endeavors are a challenge in themselves. In Argentina, I remember, well, we have been very creative over many decades. And to make the entrepreneurs' lives impossible. Luckily, this new government administration is seeking to change this around. So if you wanted to set up a company in Argentina, it would take you 100 days. You had to sign many papers, go through a lot of paperwork. But now, under the new legislation, you can set up a company in one single day. And this started in Buenos Aires as a first district. It is already underway. We had the books that had to be signed, the vintage books. With all the paperwork, we had to sign. And anyone willing to set up a company had to sign. And now everything's on the cloud. So you can sign the box and the minutes of a meeting on the cloud to be easily shared. So these are things we have been learning over the past period. We also have venture capital and funds investments. We're learning and producing better entrepreneurs. We're also educating the population. So they have safer endeavors. Argentina ranks among the five or six countries in the world in terms of entrepreneurship or endeavor rates. It's always ranked among the top ranks as an entrepreneur, population, thanks to our ancestors.  So we also rank among the greatest failures because we dare to fail in order to succeed. There's a program in the city called Academia Buenos Aires in Perende. It's a free program. And there's thousands of people use it annually. So we provide them with the tools to become entrepreneurs. There's another agreement, an entrepreneurship agreement. And they have access to mentors. They can mentor the population in the rural areas. The idea is to support them and help them thrive through their talents. These are the mechanisms that we have been using to foster entrepreneurship. Going back to the cross-bred horse idea, I don't know if they'll one day become unicorns, but will most certainly discover many talents. Yes, earlier on, Andy asked, how can we provide these tools to entrepreneurs? What do you think, sir? Well, without a doubt, in answering your question, at the end of the day, well, you need to have liquidity in the market so entrepreneurs can actually focus on their next startup. And so that at least part of their employees can also set out to start their own endeavors and startups. In America, what has happened is that we have had a small ecosystem in the years 1999, 2000, when Andy and I started out. And some startups came up, Mercado Livre, despegar, global links. We have a few cases, Pagaseguro in Brazil. And from this cohort, as we call it in the industry, there have been a handful of successful companies. Then he had this nuclear winter that started with the NASDAQ crisis in the US. But they picked up quickly.  And once again, technology took off in Latin America. Of course, the scenario is different. You have the local issues. The winter lasted longer until 2011, I would say. So for over a decade, we actually didn't see many endeavors. And starting in 2011, and especially driven by Brazil and through the BRICS, that drew capital and investments to Brazil. And later, spent it throughout the region. New and interesting companies began to emerge. Over the next three to five years, we're probably going to see many of these companies breaking through this crystal roof. And there will be many unicorns that will be very successful, and we'll keep on driving this virtual cycle. The ecosystem is far more evolved than it was 15 years ago, far less developed than Israel or the Silicon Valley, of course, far less. But we are making headway. There is still much room to go, a long way to go. But we're on the right track. And talents, of course, are important. Key leaders, leadership. And I wouldn't say government support or help, but government authorities at least shouldn't get in the way. So when I talk to government authorities, I normally say, either help me grow or remove the obstacles. In Argentina, they're also starting to do the same. There are positive measures in Brazil as well, so you need to really allow for entrepreneurs to accelerate by removing the obstacles, whether they are cross-bred horses and want to become unicorns. It is key for governments to take this stance. If you think about capital education, government entrepreneurs, you need to consider this streamlined scenario that will allow them to operate as they should. I believe that we are living a moment that is very interesting. We here seated. What we lack is another woman to be part in this panel. But we are in a critical moment, at least. Well, there are several women here to help. Yes, but we are in a moment in talking about the tools. Currently, technology is much faster than ever. The endeavors now have to focus more in innovation, try to solve instead of building the tools they need. Of course, I'm a little bit biased, but I agree with you. The tools allows us to access market much faster. And what I heard in the past through winter, and we have to be aware that we have to help the next generation of endeavors to succeed as fast as possible, and also be tolerable with failure. Because before, if you fail, everybody looks bad to you. But now, you have to accept it exists. And it is a badge of honor. And in addition to technological issues, there are the financial issues, governmentally, should have these conversations as well, so we can access the entrepreneurship communities. Because it's hard. We have very complicated entrepreneurship financially, emotionally, intellectually. And these systems to support ventures are very important to foster this sector. How important are the open markets to develop startups? What do you think? Well, we used this to open Gimpest in Argentina. Did it work? Yes. If it doesn't work, then it's your fault, not the state. But the opportunity there is incredible. We have four local companies that gathered with us. And this is very important not only due to tax issues, but also to exchange talents. In the previous panel, we were talking about the challenge to obtain visa to work in other countries. And for us, working is like a major global corporation that will send two, three people a year in a global corporation. And for us, we want to send more people. And it's hard for a small startup to send someone in the correct way legally abroad to study. This would be very interesting to have at least the opinion and live in another country. Do you share this vision as you've been in both sides? Well, I share the vision of both. The best the state can do is do the list possible. And everything we do has to be to help the business community, because they already have a risk in itself. And be proactive in things like that. Because for somehow, we build bridge to expedite so things flow faster. This has to do with human resources, with a lot of things. Currently, a lot of people travel constantly from Buenos Aires and Sao Paolo, because they work there, but work for a startup that is based here. I worked in the trocophone here. I don't know who works in Sao Paolo and who works in Buenos Aires, because we come and go all the time. And from the point of view of regulation, we are always lagging behind the need. So the wish is to be closer, as close as possible. There are different mechanisms to work jointly. Open market is critical. But you can address open market by having a bilateral agreement between the different government or between the industry. For example, Israel Innovation Authority have 65 bilateral agreements, meaning that it's a joint development, let's say, between Israel and Brazil. So Israel Innovation Authority provide the Israeli companies to do development jointly with Brazilian companies. And then the Brazilian institution, wherever we decide and have the agreement with, fund the Brazilian side. Now you have two different companies from two different cultures working on the same project. And we have this kind of agreement, as I said, 65 with companies, with cities, with universities, with countries. And it's proof itself beautifully because you start to exchange talent from the development. You tailor the product that developed in Israel to the needs of Brazil and vice versa. And then you leverage the talent. And now you're already exposed to the big market. So not always we have to mobile people. I think that we have the opportunity to do more of bilateral agreement and then drive project globally by the two different entity that agreed to work together. And we found it very, very powerful. Another question that was sent through Twitter is how can technology change the game of startups in Latin America? Andy, how do you see that? Undoubtedly, the technology is changing all the aspects of social and economic life. These are trends happening in a global level. Latin America is not an exception. We see this in planaries in Latin America. Maybe in some aspects of this development, we are a little bit lagging behind comparing to other markets, especially in technology. There are some areas like education, health, financial services, e-commerce, payments, or these are global trends that we see that are happening also in Latin America after the nuclear winter, it will come hit strong the region. And it always starts by the individual, the consumer, and then it goes to the companies and corporations. Many of the services we started to invest do not have to do with us, but with the companies. The companies, all of them become technological. I remember the Chronicle of Gandhi. He didn't know the work in a company of technology because everything now is technology. Any company for a more old industrial concept they have technology. And this is an amazing opportunity to have a catch up. I think that technology does not have state frontiers. It works anywhere. For instance, for us in Gimpass, this is a plan that you can use to use any gyms here in Argentina or Uruguay anywhere. So as technology do not have frontiers, it's important to think, how can governments, help so the frontiers really do not exist and the experience can be seamless. The same experience, for instance, as mobiles that work in any country. And this enables Uber and Spotify. It doesn't matter if the technology is in Brazil or where it's based. Now, we pass the floor to the audience. Please raise your hand, stand up, say your name and your question. We have someone here. We will toss the microphone so you can speak. Good afternoon. Well, you talked a lot about the case of Israel, the investment and the role of science and technology. But we are also talking about unicorns. So I would like to know what is the role and how do you think on projecting the role of investigation and science with that? Considering that they are stank compartments or wall-tight compartments. And these are technology companies. Technology is a big test. And how can science be connected to that? Digital revolution and fast-paced motion in technology. Really, really fast. The research is the basic. The research in the academia, in the research institute is an abler for all the technologies that we see. Because if you want a better chip to process faster the information that we generate, you may need a different equipment to generate those chip that is not in exist today and need a revolution in the science that we know today. And I give you one example, could be the quantum technology. We know on quantum technology very little today. We know for many years, but what are the applications that quantum technology can provide? It's still not very well known, but it's in the research level now. The researcher in the academia, in the research institute, are the leading now the torch. Like the 50 years ago, the academia led the torch of the semiconductor where I come from. So I see the research, the academia. The best publications is enabling that every country need to look and if it will be up to me to put more and more money there. So we have better, better research because that's where it's all start. Now, technologies and startups and all the entrepreneurs, they take a known science that maybe five years ago was not known. And they take this science and they think, how can I make a use of that? Okay. And I think that's a critical element. Andi, do you want to add something? I believe that the challenge of connecting science and scientists with entrepreneurs in Argentina, that I know better, is more important that helping induce startups. We come from a history of many years where the measure of success of a scientist was the number of publications and which papers. Oh, I published in science or I have a paper in nature. But concretely, what did you do that changed the life of a consumer that is willing to pay for that? Oh, but I'm not this mercenary capitalist that will sell my science to do business. So I think there is a huge challenge here and to make the science and in that world, the corporate world dialogue. The examples where this happened had extraordinary results. And in order for Latin America to compete in the world, this has to start to happen here. And we are willing, we wish this can happen because this will generate more opportunities. We have another question here, please. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, I'm Comal. I'm a biochemist from Chile and I'm an entrepreneur. And I agree with my Argentina colleague, Israel, is the company that invests the most in science and development and in investigation and research and investment. And I'm a biochemist thanks to public funds. My question is, in terms of investment, when we think in a scale, because in Latin America, to be in a startup in Chile, we need the seed capital. They help us with seed or pre-seed capital. But when we get to series A or B, we don't have that many stakeholders present. How do you see this gap to go from seed capital to venture capital or scale up or growth capital? It's true what you said that in Israel, the R&D investment of $5.4 billion is the highest as percent of GDP than the rest of the world. Israel number one, 4.3% of GDP is R&D. However, most of it is private investors. The government actually invests one of the lowest in the entire OECD that I saw research, one of the lowest. And of course, what the prime minister said, right? He said, hey, great, somebody else invests. Why do I need the other government? And that was my point before. That the government need to invest where there is a market failure, where there is infrastructure, enable the companies to get into a pre-seed seed once the investor coming and invests, the government should get the hell out of it and interfere with all the regulations. And then let the interpenu and let the VC to take it from that point. So I think government not only need to invest but carefully in where it's really, really needed and not on a large project that already the business sector is running and funding them. Two brief answers. First of all, due to the nature of the business, this is a funnel in the regulation process in Latin America, in Silicon Valley, whatever. This is a funnel and not all the companies will receive seed funding and will receive venture capital or growth capital. This is due to the nature of the industry and of the model. That said, unfortunately in Latin America, we are developing an ecosystem and we lack players. We need, but we have much more players than we have 15 years, 20 years ago in Chile talking about incubators and startups. The concept didn't exist, the concept of angels didn't exist. Now this ecosystem started to be created. We still need a complete coverage, but in the initial part, there's much more support, much more know how, much more follow up, but we still lack, we have a fund, we are regional, we invest in technology companies in the region and there was no peer 15, 20 years ago. Now, luckily, we have a global connection. We can extract funds to Brazil and Argentina, for instance, but in 20 years from now, we will see much better coverage. Yes, we have one more question over here, thank you. Yes, still Darwinian process, natural selection. Well, in Argentina and Latin America, we actually tend to believe that we are good entrepreneurs and actually what we lack, what is it that we lack to create to start high-impact companies, that is a unicorn, but from your experience, what would you say in this regard? Who would like to ask the question? Well, we're a fund, we're a fund that look at opportunities throughout the region. We're agnostic as to where entrepreneurs are located, where they'll be found. We're focused in actually searching for good entrepreneurs and opportunities and over the past years, we have found many more companies in Brazil compared to the rest of the region. Brazil, maybe, is one step higher in terms of development and endeavors compared to the region. Then Argentina 15, 20 years ago, was at the lead and it also had to actually, it went through a nuclear winter because of the economic policies, et cetera, and now it is picking up again. And hopefully it will actually use all of its entrepreneurial potential and certainly will. And there are other economies of the region that are doing quite well, Mexico, Colombia. We are beginning to see interesting movements there. There's a Chilean company that has also attained excellent results, so things are on the right track. We need to be patient and supporting these ecosystems. Yes, and I would also say, oh, your name, please. Hi, Ro. I would say there's something very important that I'd like to mention in regards to your question. It's not actually what they like, but what I feel is that when it comes to the ecosystem track, we're on the right track in the region, I would say. I actually, what's a fund to ask me? How much I would be willing to invest? Well, of course, I'm trying to raise capital because I needed it. That's precisely why. And now these negotiations are not as common. The ecosystem is still there. The region, as I see it, you have, well, the clients that talk to many of which are entrepreneurs have to persevere. In my opinion, they have to persevere. Their lives are extremely difficult. It is a Darwinian process. Competition is tough. It's stiff. And both here and throughout the region, I would say in Israel or the Silicon Valley, it's probably not easier. The survival rates are very similar, more or less the same. There are things that are easier to access. Still, I believe we're on the right track. As I mentioned, we're negotiations with the government. The government is fully aware that it has to act as a facilitator. There are funds of people who have been through the same process and want to help. So we actually need to persevere and to keep going forward with the conversations. We're not going to sit here. It's never going to happen that we're going to sit here together and talk about how easy it is to be an entrepreneur. I want to share with you what experiences you have. Life of the startups are always difficult, but there are ways to help them. And the way to help them is to have incubators and accelerators where you put experienced people who, yes, take some equity in the company, but they can address very quickly, select the good from the bed. They can give more experience and the solutions and services to what the startups are lacking. And then they can move up into a startup and get the private equity investment of VC after they become a bit more mature. And I see it a lot in the Silicon Valley today. And I think that's one of the enablers that we see a lot in Israel, the incubator accelerator, innovation labs, whatever you want. And there are many different models that we have in Israel. Well, it's time now to adjourn. I would like to ask you to please share a few words to close the session. Marco, I'd like to say that it's not simply having an idea of what the unicorn causes of. It's about really pushing forward, airing, failing and keeping forward until we find the solution. Thank you. And this is a romantic reflection from my part about the entrepreneur world. Being an entrepreneur is a passport for personal freedom. If you cannot choose whether you are going to make a living from your own talent, if you don't want to work for anyone else, you can do it freely. The role of the government and civil society is to provide us the conditions to become unicorns for everyone, cross-bred horses to find the right opportunities to maybe become a unicorn or decide what they want to be at none. I would say that we have gone beyond this tipping point when it comes to creating a unicorn. We're going to see many unicorns over the following years, the years to come with the technology, with major opportunities that are to be found in Latin America. And optimistic, I would say that the tipping point in Latin America goes beyond, well, things that will happen in the technology market, this turning point will actually be a result of all the policies, the political change that has happened over the past years. We're not simply going to stay within a recovery cycle that will end up in another crisis. It is a turning point that will lead to more sustained growth over the next decades. Thank you, Enrique. Yes, I do agree we are at a turning point right now. I'm also optimistic and I'll say to entrepreneurs that yes, whether they are cross-bred horses or unicorns, they are going to tackle problems and provide important solutions to civil society. The thing is that once you start, you can no longer go back to working for others. And the final remark, please. In Latin America, and for that matter in the rest of the world, to take a big advantage on the digital revolution that's happening today, that you can provide education to kids in the remote village in the Amazonas, you can provide them education through the internet today. And they have through satellite. You can provide them the best medical care. You can provide the poorest farmer the best advice how to, that should be the vehicle to lower social gaps in all the countries.  That's the opportunity and that's the responsibility of all of us. High tech government to leverage it to reduce the social gaps in all the countries. Okay, thank you very well. Thank you very much to all unicorns are inspirational. We're all optimistic, we're on the right track but there is still a long way to go. Thank you very much for being here today to the panelists to the audience. Thank you for your patience as well with our technical issues. Until our next meeting. This explains why sex is a popular subject.


Welcome back everyone to day two of theCUBE's live coverage at MYS here in Washington, DC. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host and analyst, Rob Streche. We are joined by Charles Carmichael. He is the Mandiant Consultant CTO Google Cloud and Jeff Lungelhofer, CISO at Coinbase. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for having us here.  Where you talked about incidents that had happened at your companies. You were incredibly vulnerable sharing what went down, how you dealt with it, the lessons you learned and where you're going from here. I want to start with you, Charles, and I want to hear about what happened at Coinbase, but I want to start with you, Charles, about why these conversations are so important right now. You know, I think so many of us learn about cybersecurity and the things that we should do better based on hearing about security intrusions and vulnerabilities and exploitation that's occurred at other organizations. And so I'm personally incredibly thankful that folks like Jeff and the executive from Barracuda and the executive from Microsoft decided to have the courage and to come onto stage and to be open and to transparently and candidly just talk about their security incident and the things that they've learned. And a lot of times people are afraid to do this because there's a stigma against data security events. But we all learn when we openly share learnings from the variety of security attacks that we all deal with on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, I think what was really interesting and striking to me is it's really the ecosystem that goes along with that and how that brings it all together. But one of the things that was also striking was a lot about, hey, here's how you deal with these things and some of the learnings out of it. So again, you can't stop being patient number zero, patient zero, but being patient one or two, you can start.  Why don't you talk to a little bit about what the situation was and why authentication is really, you hammered that home. Sure, absolutely. So the situation we dealt with at Coinbase was a traditional but sophisticated and advanced social engineering attack. It occurred over the course of about four hours. We had several dozen of our employees who were contacted directly by a threat actor that we lovingly call Scattered Spider and a few other code names that Mandy and our other colleagues have come up with. But they began calling, directly calling our employees and sending a series of text messages and phone calls and they were extremely persuasive. They made very good connection with the staff in an effort to get them to be redirected to some phishing websites. Unfortunately, we did have one employee who did provide his username and password into a phishing website, a fraudulent website. So that was then harvested by the actor in this case. Now the good news is that we use multi-factor authentication for all access into Coinbase. So the actor was not able to use the username and password. So great news there. It was a win for the security team and the whole company. There was no access that was directly gained into our infrastructure. The not so great news is that using these very persuasive social engineering techniques, they were able to talk the employee into screen sharing in effect, loading up some screen sharing software and sharing their screen, not in an interactive way, but so that the adversary could see what was on that person's screen and they did upload a file that contained a subset of employee information, e-names, email addresses, phone numbers, things like that, which of course, from a security perspective, that's now the next wave of attacks that's going to come at our employees. So obviously not a devastating attack in that there was any access gained or any customer funds that were ever in any jeopardy, but certainly something that we were very concerned about from an attack perspective. But to your authentication question, multi-factor authentication is the key to preventing folks from getting that initial foothold and I really strongly believe that. So when we, when hearing from the audience about this social engineering and you think like, oh man, how that employee, what was that person thinking? You know, that's the thing and you really hammered home. Look, this can happen to any of us, even the most savvy among us. Yeah, I have a very strong opinion on this. People who say, how could you do something so stupid? How could this happen? This could never happen to me. I'm here to tell you, you're wrong. You are just completely wrong. Those are the people that concern me because it demonstrates that they don't really have an awareness of how persuasive and how effective these attacks can be. So I want my folks, all of my team members, all of my employees, I want everybody for that matter to acknowledge that yes, this can happen and it probably will happen at some point in your life or in your company's life and it's not whether that event occurs, it's how you handle it. It's do you acknowledge that something happened? Are you willing to come forward and say, hey, I think I might've done something I shouldn't do? That's a really powerful thing and I will say that the employee who suffered this particular issue was very forthcoming when our security team reached out to him and said, hey, what's going on? We're seeing some things on our network here that we're not comfortable with. Why are you running the screen share software? Oh, you know what?  Very responsive, very quick to respond and the other great news is that the employees who did not fall victim were reporting to the Security Operations Center that hey, we think this is happening. There's a campaign targeting our employees so we were very on top of the situation because of the behavior of the employees.  And Charles, you lead up incident response practice here as well and you must hear from a number of, besides the people who are on stage with you and you even mentioned in the panel, FireEye and the incident that happened there, what are some of the other learnings that you're hearing that you're bringing back to that practice as well? Yeah, so I want to start by talking about the types of threats that we're seeing and there's probably a few different categories of threats that are the most prevalent across our roughly 1,200 intrusions that we're investigating for our clients. Probably the number one threat against organizations today is a threat of multifaceted extortion. God are the days where threat actors break into companies to steal credit card data because it takes a long time to acquire enough credit card data and it's hard enough to sell it to make millions of dollars. But within a three day intrusion operation, a threat actor could demand a $5 million extortion payment or a $15 million extortion payment and about half the organizations that we work with feel compelled to pay. They're evaluating pros and cons of paying and a lot of times they just have no better option but to pay. Another threat that we see very commonly across our customer base is the intrusions by nation-state actors that are intruding organizations usually for economic, political, or military advantage and we're seeing a resurgence in intrusion activity by certain governments that are more interested in acquiring data today than maybe they had been in the past through cyber means and we're starting to see a little bit of a shift from the acquisition of information from insiders that we might have seen a few years ago back into the cyber attacks. And there's a few other types of threats that we see but those are probably the two most prevalent. Now what we typically do is we kind of look at what are the threats, what are the ways in which the adversaries are getting access to environments, escalating privileges, moving around and ultimately accomplishing whatever their mission is and we see a lot of commonality across that. Now my colleague Jeff mentioned the authentication opportunities that a lot of organizations have right now. A lot of people are still using passwords, they may use either single-factor authentication but maybe multi-factor authentication and as Jeff and Kevin earlier mentioned, there's a huge issue with SIM swapping today where somebody's cell phone number can be hijacked and they could get access to the one-time passwords that are sent to mobile devices and so that's just an example of a takeaway that I hope a number of people have been imparted with as they've attended the M.Y.S. conference this year. Another takeaway I got from you in particular, Jeff, was this new idea, I'd never heard it before, a push fatigue. Can you tell our viewers a little bit about that? Yeah, so there's various forms of multi-factor authentication and Charles alluded to what I would consider to be the least effective form which is SMS text message.  That's great so long as you are actually in control of that mobile phone or the SIM card associated with that mobile phone which can be changed. Any carrier because of the portability, the phone number portability acts that were passed, laws that were passed some time ago that allow you to port your number from one carrier to the next, if you have a person who's positioned within another carrier or an insider, they can literally clone your phone and take that number away from you on a temporary basis. They only need it for a few minutes to get those codes and then they have access to your accounts. SMS is the weakest form of authentication and I want to be clear, because I have a lot of colleagues who work in telecommunications, that's not a slam against telcos, Verizon, T-Mobile, all those providers that are out there. They never intended nor designed SMS to be used in this manner. It has been sort of attached onto by industry as a solution for multi-factor because of course the cell phone is almost ubiquitous now, everybody has one, but they never intended it to be what it's become. So unfortunately, that is by far the weakest form of authentication. Going up the chain from there, there's what we call push-based authentication and that's where you may have an authenticator app on your phone. There's a number of providers that offer this service and when you try and log in, that authenticator app will pop up a notification and say, hey, do you accept this login? You may have seen it at Google, does it, a variety of companies will do it as a service. It'll pop up and you can accept or you can deny that. The problem with that is that if someone already has their username in your password, aka the employee at Coinbase who gave that information up or anywhere where that information is exposed, they can just send those push requests constantly to somebody's phone. So it happens pretty frequently, you'll have an engineer who gets 10, 20, 30, 40 of these push requests at two o'clock in the morning. They just want to sleep. The phone keeps waking them up and they're like, this is probably some rogue script or something that's running. You know, I just accept. I just want to go back to bed. They just have had it. They click accept and they go back to bed. And now you're compromised, right? So that's push fatigue.  They just used to clicking accept and they just do it. The stronger forms of authentication are what I would call a one-time password and OTP solution. That's like Google Authenticator. I'll give you all a plug. I use that pretty extensively. And that's an app that runs in your phone that has a cryptographic seed that you can share with other companies that will produce a rolling series of one-time passwords. But there's no communication. You just put that in. It's synced between a server and your device. You can authenticate using that. Even stronger still is a physical security token. And that's the thing that I encourage everyone to use. If you have the option of using it, use a physical security token. That could be a UB key. It could be there's a variety of vendors out there that offer these. But that is a physical token that you have to have. USB, NFC, you insert it into your computer. You press the little tongs on it. You authenticate. And presto, you're able to get into your accounts. You can't clone it. You have to physically steal it. You can't, if it's in someone's computer and you compromise it, you have to physically touch it. So even compromising the machine where someone has a token inserted, you still can't use that authentication device. So it's a very, very strong form of authentication. And I encourage everyone to use it if possible. Yeah, I think it's a lot easier than it used to be with the old RSA tokens where you would have the random numbers generating next to you. And you try to type it in at the same time. I've used very similar hardware when I was with another cloud provider. Don't think about it. You just touch it. All you have to do is touch it. It's not, no numbers, no codes. Of course they're all doing all that in the back end. But you have to physically have the token and you have to touch it. So I have several of those. I keep them in safes. I won't say where. But I can grab them. I can insert them. I can transact. I take them out. And when that's out, my accounts are secure. I was just going to say it's one of those security conventions that actually make things more secure but even easier, more convenient for folks. You know, after the FireEye incident a few years ago, we had some pretty strong controls in place. But we decided that we wanted to go to five to two authentication. And we rolled out UB Keys for everybody that was an employee of the organization. And I was initially a little skeptical myself because I assumed I would probably lose it or I'd break it. I'd forget to take it when I traveled. But surprisingly, it's been actually quite effective and it's been so much more convenient for us to authenticate by pushing a little button. Yeah, I always had two of them. And I had one in two different places to your point about, hey, you got to keep them secure but at the same time. Have a backup. Yeah, have a backup because I would smash one and I'm like, okay, that's bad. I now need to go get my other one so I can actually log in and actually get my email and things of that nature or log into a sensitive system. But I think that was also another point that you brought up was not one person being able to get into systems and especially with the keys. And I think we were talking to some financials and financials are becoming more like crypto companies and crypto companies are becoming are financials for all intents and purposes but especially where it's the keys that are like keys are literally the kingdom for Coinbase. That's right. That's right. And that's a difference I think in a crypto ecosystem, a lot of people don't understand. Traditional wallet, we call it a Coinbase wallet, right? It's one of our products that we offer and you think about that and you think, oh, it's like my wallet.  That's actually not what a wallet, a crypto wallet is. A crypto wallet is a key management solution. Your actual crypto and your actual wallet is on the public blockchain that's out there on the blockchain network that's what we call the L1 network that's out there that's running on a series of distributed nodes around the whole or all over the world. That's where your crypto actually is. That's where your actual wallet is. Your software that you run on your phone or on your computer, that simply allows you to access the private key or the secret key that will allow you to transact on that network to move that crypto around. So you're exactly right. You've got to protect those keys. It's all about protecting the keys. So one of the innovations, I shouldn't say an innovation, it's certainly not Coinbase specific. One of the things that we're leaning into is multi-MPC, multi-party compute, which is where we take the traditional key, Charles has a key, Charles opens a lock, and we're breaking that key up into five bits, six bits, seven bits. And we can give those individual, we call key shards to various people. And we can have a consensus agreement that says, I want to have three of the five or seven of the 11 or whatever you choose as you're setting up your infrastructure. And you have to have all of those shards all being operated simultaneously in order to transact. A lot of our institutional customers and others really like that because they can use Coinbase's infrastructure, but they can retain control of enough key shards where we can't transact on those wallets. They can't transact on those wallets. We working together can transact on those wallets. So it gives them a great degree of assurance that even if we're completely compromised and our key shards are taken, we still can't transact in the crypto. And the same is true vice versa. They lose control of their key shards. We can't transact without them. So it creates a very trustless environment. And I think that's one of the goals that we have for the crypto ecosystem. So last question, and this is, you've already shared why it's so important for different companies to get together and talk about best practices, what they've learned and how they're getting better together. What's the flip side if they're not as transparent and as candid? Yeah, I mean, if they are not transparent and they're not sharing information, then we all have to learn on our own and it just quadruples or exponentially increase these amount of time that it's going to take us to solve cybersecurity challenges. You know, when people ask, you know, do I compete against Microsoft or do we compete against other organizations? I say, no, I mean, we are competing against the adversaries. We need to share information to help the community just get better and defend themselves. And so I personally have a great relationship with a variety of organizations who may be competing from a business perspective. We're all on the same team when we're fighting against the adversary. A great note to end on. Excellent. Thank you, Charles. Thank you so much. Yes. I'm Rebecca Knight for Rob Stretch A. Thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE's second day of coverage of MI's. We'll be back tomorrow.


Welcome to the Everton News Daily. Sean Dyche has given his pre-match press conference ahead of Everton's trip to Aston Villa on Sunday the game kicks off at 2 o'clock. The manager was asked about Dominic Calver-Lewin and where he is up to in his rehabilitation. This is what he had to say. I don't know how he's adapted to being a father. I don't live with him, but I'm sure he's enjoying the process like I certainly did. On his side of things he's in good shape. He managed to get a sort of end part of his rehab done this week with a 90 minutes. So he's in good shape and certainly comes straight back into the thinking. He'll go hopefully Dom will be involved at the weekend. Chey Adams was a subject of an Everton bid. We'll be more on that in a minute. Sean Dyche was asked about Chey Adams where that was up to. I answered that you can say was rather predictable from the manager. This is what I had to say. There's lots of conversations ongoing with a number of different areas that we hope to affect. No news at this stage about any of them. Staying on the subject of strikers, Sean Dyche was asked where Yousaf Chimitty is up to. Was he ready to be considered for first team action as yet? And this was his reply to that question. Oh no, he's come in a bit delayed from his games programme. We've got 45 minutes in the week. So he's still adjusting and still adapting. Very young, but he's adapting to the train and adapting to the playing. So he'll be a slow burner I think, but he's going along nicely when it's just settling in. There you go, looks like Chimitty. It'll be a little bit longer as he's integrating into the squad and gets up to full fitness. Sean Dyche was also asked about where Vitaly Michalenco and Arna Dan Duma were up to. Both of them got minutes the other day in the bounce game against Manchester United. Michalenco's not quite ready yet. Dan Duma's still a little bit below the level, but obviously he did come on against Fulham last week. So you'd expect Dan Duma to be sub again this week at Villar Park, but hopefully he'll get up to speed soon as well. Back to Tche Adams, an evidently he reportedly had a bit of around £12 million to Southampton this morning for Adams. The 27-year-old is thought to be available. He has already scored twice in the opening two matches in the championship for the Saints. He got five Premier League goals last year in 28 games, which isn't massively inspiring to people. Currently he got 33 goals in 148 games for the Saints, working out one in five. He did have a good season the year before he moved to Southampton when he scored 22 goals for Birmingham City. He seems to fit the profile that Sean Dyche wants. He can play as a lone striker. He's hard working. He doesn't score enough goals, I'll just say that right now, I think. But on evidence budget, and the players are looking at it, then you can understand why the recruiting team have identified him. Would I personally like us to go in a different direction and take a bit more of a gamble on players in another league? Yes, but it doesn't seem like they're going to do that. So I can understand him coming in and almost being the buffer between Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Yush of Chimity. We'll have to wait and see whether anything progresses with this, but Everton have bid £12 million for Chey Adams today. Wilfred Nonto is continuing to try and push a move to Everton through. The Leeds Winger is the field trainer on his own and isn't in their matchday squad for their game against West Brom and Jalbyn tonight. Nonto has been on Everton's wish list all summer. Leeds are saying he's not for sale. There is a couple of caveats of that stuff coming out in the Italian press saying that of Everton pay. What Leeds wants, then the player will be allowed to join the Toffees. I don't know what that valuation is. They've seen different figures, £28 million and £30 million in another one. Only the two clubs, I guess, will know the true answer of that. But this one still looks set to rumble on. If a bitio Romano saying on his podcast that he thinks the deal will be done because Nonto is a sole Leeds, he's done with them. Again, I don't know how true that is. I know a lot of Leeds fans just want it resolved. A kind of saying the players you've refused to play shouldn't really be welcome back there. Football and football fans are fickle, but all of the same thing. If Nonto doesn't get sold, I'm sure he will be welcome back into the Leeds side. But right now, he is still trying to force his move through to Evan. Finally, Sean Dyche did say today that there would be no decision made on Tom Cannon until later in the window. Obviously, Cannon had looked likely to join Preston last week. Maybe Evan felt he was going to get a move for Beato done. That hasn't materialised, and Che Adams is obviously in there as well. Dyche is just trying to cover his bases in case Evan doesn't force this wheel. Or can't get this deal done. Cannon would then probably end up remaining at Godderson Park for the first half of the season if Evan didn't get another centre forward in. Preston, Sunderland and Leeds all watching how this develops. Tom Cannon looks likely to remain at Evan certainly for the next week or so until. Well, I've Evan inside Che Adams. I'm sure he'll be allowed to leave. There you go. That is it for the news daily. Give the video a thumbs up, subscribe if you haven't. If you want more videos, including exclusive videos, get over to Toffy TV Premier. The link is in the description. The QR code will be on the screen now. Thanks for watching. See you later.