Hi, my name is Tim Sarowitz. I'm a trainer and course developer for the Linux Foundation. Today, I'd like to talk to you about getting started with Rook inside of Kubernetes. Rook allows us to easily work with storage. Alright, so I opened up my browser, and we're looking at my home page, LinuxFundation.org, and I go under projects, all projects. When this updates, we'll see that there are quite a few projects that the Linux Foundation hosts. And there it is, CNCF, or the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. You'll also notice Ceph is another project that will be the storage backend when we configure Rook. So I'm going to select the CNCF page, and even inside of this project, there are quite a few other projects. Graduated projects like Kubernetes, which we'll be using to deploy Rook inside of. And if you scroll down, incubating. Incubating means that there might be some hiccups and some stuff that still needs work. Rook is one of those, but hopefully as you start using it and integrating it with Kubernetes, we'll all work together to get it to a graduated state and nice and stable and without hiccups. So what is Rook? As the page says, open source cloud native storage. What does that mean? It is a way for automating the tasks of a storage administrator. So the deployment, provisioning, scaling, migration, disaster recover, monitoring, and resource management at the end. So this is to make our management of storage, in this case we'll use Ceph, as easy as possible in our environment. As it mentions, it uses the power of Kubernetes. We're going to create some custom resources. So those are going to have our new objects and then we're going to add an operator to act with those new objects. So we're actually leveraging Kubernetes ideas and concepts here. Multiple storage providers. We're going to be deploying Ceph, but you have other ones to choose from. And I would not be surprised if more are added as this project grows in popularity. Everybody loves Rook, of course. Why? Well, these features. Simple and reliable, automated resource management. So from a storage admin perspective, there's a lot less hassle for me. I can scale or converge my clusters, distribute and replicate data. Okay, I like that. I minimize loss and provision file block and objects with multiple storage providers. So that gives me even more flexibility and I can change and adjust as necessary. So there's lots of reasons to want to work with Rook. Scroll back up and I'm going to choose the get started button. There's quick start guides for various storage providers. I'm going to select Ceph. There's a too long didn't read section that mentions a series of YAML files that we can work with. Common operator and then cluster test. That creates a nice simple cluster, Rook cluster, which is good for mini cube and other environments. We're going to actually take a look at the cluster.yaml file, which would be something you'd look at for a production environment. Let's get started by going to a terminal. Okay, I leveraged Amazon for this demo just because it's very easy to spin up nodes and add storage and so forth. Let's start off by seeing what kinds of nodes we have to work with. So you'll see there's four nodes in the cluster, a master and three workers, and they all show ready state. We're running version 1.16.1. To see the version and each one of the nodes is in Moon 2 1804. In this case it's a T2 large, two processors, and eight gig of memory. All four nodes are the same so that just for flexibility's sake. So let's begin by getting the software with the git command. Here we see git clone running, github.com. Rook, Rook.get, and it's been pulled down. As the webpage said, there was a Rook sub directory and inside of the git repository. And we see of course readmes and other stuff to take a look at. There's a sub directory called cluster, examples, then kubernetes, and the different backends that we can choose from. Again, we're going to choose sef. We see several yaml files here that we could work with. The webpage mentioned a common and operator, and they mentioned first a cluster test. You'll notice there's actually quite a few different cluster, external, minimal, and then a .yaml file. Let's take a closer look at some of them. The common .yaml file is where we see a namespace created, and then our new objects are being added to the API server. There's quite a few of them actually, and you can read through this at your leisure, but you can see there's quite a few. In fact, let's take a look, see what's being added. I did a grep for every line that had custom in it and showed the following line. You can see sef cluster, file systems, object resource users, and so forth. So lots of different custom resource definitions being added. The next one was the operator .yaml. This is what determines how the operator, which will be working with those objects, behaves. So we see the image it will run is rook, sef, master, various other directories, and then lots of possible settings, security settings, logging, and other resources. So should I allow multiple file systems? What's the logging level? How often to check the status? So notice it's a 60 second check. So when you're working with it, if you're expecting a very quick turnaround, wait at least a minute for that. The mon quorum, 45 seconds, duration of wait before trying to failover, 600 seconds, duration between discovering devices, 60 minutes. So if you add a new node and are expecting it to get a new OSD immediately, you'd have to wait at least 60 minutes. And other parameters that you guys can read through at your leisure, but that we're going to leave as it is. Then the cluster test, let's take a look at cluster test .yaml file. They mention that this is what they suggested as an easy getting to start because the monitor count is one. Now if we lose that one, we're out of luck. Normally we'd want three, so we have quorum. We can see other parameters here, such as the OSDs per device. There's one OSD, and we see that it's going to use Varlib Rook for that location. Of course with Minicube, that's not the persistent locations. You might want to change that to be something else. You can also declare which device to use if you don't want to use a directory. Let's get out of that, and let's take a look at the cluster .yaml file. This is the one that would be more production friendly, and we'll take a look at that. We see the image is being declared, whether or not to allow unsupported images to be used. We don't want to use that in production, so we're going to leave that as false. If you choose to use a DataDurr host path, Varlib Rook again is where it will use. Here we see monitor count of three, which would give us the ability to have quorum, and allow multiple per node. Typically we wouldn't want two on the same node, because if that node fails, we would lose our ability to have quorum. I'm going to change that just here in the demo, because I don't have that big of a cluster to work with. We'll keep going here. We'll see the dashboard. That's a SEF dashboard to view what's going on with the SEF cluster. We're going to leave that running. Monitoring, since we have not yet installed Prometheus, we're going to leave that as a false value. Then we're going to keep going down here, and eventually we'll see a commented section. If you want to determine where things go in a more automated fashion, you can use affinity and anti-affinity for where your various components should be put. OSD notations, and we're looking for an entry called nodes. Should be coming up here soon. Use all nodes. It would typically want to create OSDs as it goes. I'm going to show you how to declare a particular node. I'm going to set that to false. It won't just use all nodes. It will only use the ones that I tell it to use. Scroll down a little bit further, and we can see here's the nodes entry. It's commented out by default, so I'm going to uncomment that. Then, of course, I now have to tell it which nodes I want it to use. We see that it gives us good examples. We see a name and then a device name. What I'm going to do is deselect that part and then deselect that part. I haven't changed anything yet because I have to figure out what it is that I'm going to actually be using. I'm going to get out of this file and save what I did so far. Let's see what resources I have. fdisk sudo fdisk-l I've added, in this case, dev xdb. That's a 100-gig second drive on each one of the nodes that I can work with. Of course, we need to know what those nodes are. So, cube CTL, get nodes. Again, I have three worker nodes. Just to make my life a little easier, I'm going to put that at the bottom of the clustering YAML file. When I go back in the clustering YAML file, I hopefully have that nice and handy to work with. I don't have to go back and forth. I'm going to do this. Since this is all commented out, I'm going to delete quite a bit of it. Now that I have those, I'm going to do a Y3Y. Then paste and paste. Now, I can just swap that out with the different values. In fact, what I'm going to do is leave this commented out for now. We can see what it looks like then when I add it later. Of course, the spacing is wonderful for that. Let's get rid of what I added down here. Just to see what it is that's actually left inside of there, little prep-v for take away all the hash marks in that file. We can see the different possible values and permutations. Again, three monitors, but they can be on the same node. Then I've declared two nodes to be responsible for the OSDs. Let's see if my YAML is correct. I haven't created other ones, haven't I? Cube, CTL, Create. I looked at them, but I never... I'll have to actually create it. Cube, CTL, Create, Operator.YAML. Now, Cube, CTL, Create, Dash, F, Cluster.YAML. That looks a little better. If you recall, there's a new namespace called Rook-Seph. GetPod. We can see that the operator is still starting. The operator is going to query the API server and then be responsible for starting everything else. Now that the operator is running, it's starting all the other stuff, the discovery for the various nodes, and plugins for getting stuff to work continues. It can take a couple of minutes for this to finish, but we'll see how this goes. We see that our monitors are there, A, B, and C, so three monitors. A is terminating. I've noticed that. It will restart in a little bit. Let's take a look and give it another second, and hopefully we'll see some OSDs. Back to having an A and a B and hopefully a C. Now, a manager has been set up, so we're about two and a half minutes in and the manager is running. Now, we see that we have these Ceph OSD prepare. These are going to run on the particular nodes to configure the OSDs for us. They'll be creating the OSDs and making sure they're running. Give that a sec here. They'll actually show as completed, and then we should see the OSDs themselves. We're now, it's been about two and a half minutes, almost three minutes since we started and the operator had a chance to start. We notice our OSD zero is in the init phase. That's our first OSD is up. The monitors A, B, and C are there and our manager is there. The other one should be starting. There it is. Now, we have two OSDs, which is what we configured in the file, and then our monitors. At this point, we should be in pretty good shape. One of the nice things is, we have a YAML file called Toolbox, which you can take a look at. What that does for us is it gives us some of the tools that we need, like the Ceph tools. Before we get to that, we have one final step. We have to create the storage class. You can see that there's a couple of them. Let's take a look at this storage class. The first thing it has is a Ceph block pool. We have to have that with the replicated size being declared. We'll leave it at three. Then the storage class is declared next in this file. The cluster ID to use, a pool name, and then an image format. There might be a couple other parameters set in here, but the last one we're going to take a look at is the reclaim policy. This is what to do with volume when you're done with it. In this case, you'll notice it says delete. If you had it as a retain, it would stay there indefinitely until you managed to get around to deleting it. We're going to leave that as a delete, but I wanted to make you aware of where it was. Let's go ahead and create that. Now we have the storage class created as well. Let's take a look at our pods to see how those are doing. Everybody shows a running state. When we look at the containers, they're all running. Of course, the prepares have been completed. That got these two OSDs up and ready. Let's create that toolbox. It says it's been created. Let's take a look at that. We should see in here somewhere a toolbox coming up. There it is. RookSafTools is running three seconds now. We're going to execute the bash shell inside of it. I forgot to type bash. In this case, it looks like another prompt that's very familiar, but if you take a closer look, it is a little bit different. This is actually a CentOS image instead of the Ubuntu we were using before. This is an OS that is set up for us to look at stuff. So, CepStatus. Here we see it says health-lorn, but that's because we only have eight and they suggest 30 PGs, so placement groups. But we have three monitors and we have quorum. That's great. We have two OSDs up and, of course, we wanted to. We've configured a tool. We have one pool, eight PGs. It's actually in good shape. Let's take a closer look. Cep OSD status. And we see both of the nodes that I tried to configure are indeed actually there. So, that's good news. I'm going to exit out of the toolbox here and back to this cluster. And let's add the third node and see how that goes. So, again, Ctl, get node. And let's see here. So, six, eight, 123. So, this is the one that we need to add to it. Oh, I forgot I put it in here already. That's right. So, again, because of the way I did it, but let's just see did it work. I'm going to go back into the... Actually, let's go look at the pods. I hasn't picked up on it yet, but hopefully we'll see a new OSD show up soon. In the meantime, while we're waiting for that, let's go ahead and start working with it. See what we... I'm going to get out of this directory just to give it a little more space for the prompt. Ctl, get pv. No pvs in the default namespace. No pvcs in the default space. Let's create one. So, I'm going to create a file. I'm just going to call it pvc.yaml, something easy. And I have an example ready to go here. So, it's a persistent volume claim. I'm going to call it first pvc, very original name. Storage class name. So, this goes back to the YAML files we looked at. The storage class is named rooksefblock. Access mode of read write once. We'll take a look at that so you can tell what that really means. It's often misunderstood. And it will be a one gig claim. So, again, we didn't have any pvs or pvcs before. Now, let's see if we have any pvs. Not yet. What about a pvc? We have a pvc and it says pending. Status is pending. Let's see here. Go back to pv. And now it has created the volume. And we look at pvc. Instead of pending, it says bound. So, it took a little bit of time for the request to go to the operator for it to create the volume. And now our pvc has been bound. That's how easy it is. We're starting to use sef already. Now, let's create a simple pod to make use of that new pv. And again, I have some yaml ready to go. It's a pod. I named it web pod. Very original name again. And the volume will be known as first pvc vol. It's just a name I gave it. Then persistent volume claim, claim name. So, that's the pvc name. That was what I made in the previous yaml file I just edited. And it's going to be an nginx web server. And under mnt, inside of this pod, it will have the volume mounted. Okay. So, I created the pod, which should then make use of the new pvc. It says container creating. We'll give it a second. It's running. Let's go ahead and see what's inside of it. Okay. Here it is. And we see mnt is there, out of Rados block device. Give dash h. And it's listed. And we see that we have what appears to be a full gig. That's great. Let's put some IO into it. And then some, so we wrote to it. And then we'll do a find. A little bit more writing to that list. That's fine. And then mnt file list. So, there's IO. So, I wrote stuff. I read stuff. Get out of the pod. And let's go back to the tool. And again, let's take a look at stuff status. Okay. So, we have a cluster. We have three OSDs. The one I added is now in there. And we see that we had some IO actually happening. So, let's take a look another close. S-F-O-S-D status. And we can see there was written data across the various objects across the three different OSDs that I had. So, it's working. I'm working with it. Now, let's take a quick look at what it's like to work with those PVCs and how that read once means. So, I created an new deployment called Ingenix.  Just because there's a lot of them. And this we can see. I guess I could have scaled it here.  And I'm going to add some volumes. And I'm just going to copy this out of the same pod file so that I know that it's using the same one. Okay. And it helps if you put the right stuff in. How about that? I didn't copy it properly. So, let's try it this way. There we go. That has to go over. And in the container we need to put a declaration of the volume mount at the same depth as image. I believe we've gotten the space correct. And let's see if I did. Nope, something's off. Let's try that again. So, spec, two spaces in volumes. I guess two spaces in names, persistent claim, and two spaces. So that looks... Oops, nope. Not right. There we go. Now it looks better. See how that works? Okay. Now let's see what did I actually do. Cube CTL get pods. So some are creating. Some are not. Let's take a look at why. So here we see that some continue to run. Some will say container creating. Some will say running. And a 6.9. Cube CTL get RS, or replica sets. We have two of them. One of which has only two ready to the bonus three. Because in rolling updates, some are shutting down. Well, other ones are starting. But it will stop when it hits a certain percentage. Why? Well, if you look at what's running at what isn't, you'll notice, let's find our web pod. So web pod has been running before, and that's on 204. That's where the volume was mounted. If we find anybody else running on 204, in this case we don't. The old ones are running. The ones that weren't using the volume, but the new ones, the 29 second ones, these 5.9s, none of them that are coming up are being on some other pod. So actually it's, sorry, it's 6.8. So there we go, the 6.8 pod. And then this guy's running on 6.8. And thus that's why we see it running in this fashion. And let's see here. We'll do a get pods again. And this might help a little bit here. So again, the node, the ones that are running are and in 38.68, because that's where 38.68 already was. So when it says read write once, that means anybody on that node that has it configured can write to the volume. These other ones that still can container creating are on a different node. And let's take a look at what they report. That's when the container creating. And it says it can't. It's because the volume is already used by the web pod. So anybody not on the same host is not able to start. And that's why it works that way. So that was a quick start to finish understanding of how to get Sef and Rook running in your environment. Now, if you want to learn how to create the Kubernetes cluster, let's do some shameless promoting here. If you go back to Linux Foundation, there's a training link. And so this will bring you to a URL for training.linuxfoundation.org. And if you scroll down, there's a class, Kubernetes fundamentals, LFS 258. If you select that when it comes up, it is a self-paced course, 35 hours of material, hands-on labs and assignments. So you'll actually set up a multi-node cluster using the same tools that I used in this demo. You have to get 12 months of access, more videos, discussion forum, and there's a bundle. So if you want to get certified, you can buy this class and I think there's two attempts inside of that for a even less expensive price. So definitely take a look. Thanks for listening and if you have any other suggestions for what you'd like to hear about, please let us know. Thanks very much.


everybody today we're debating whether or not pot should be legal and we're starting right now for another epic debate as today we were debating whether or not pot should be legal or illegal and we have two experienced debaters so this should be a lot of fun folks it's gonna be a great one and want to let you know if it's your first time here consider hitting that subscribe button because we've got a lot more debates coming up that will be a lot of fun to check out including tomorrow at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time very excited we haven't had this one in a while whether or not demons are aliens so a Christian that an atheist will be debating that that should be a lot of fun folks and also though want to let you know as you're listening today keep in mind both of our debaters have their links in the description that I have put there for you for your convenience so that if you're listening you're like mmm I want more of that well you can hear more of that at their channels and thanks so much for being here folks if you have any questions feel free to fire them into the old live chat and then we'll ask those to the speakers during the Q&A at the end of the debate also last thing so many if you are a Christian atheist Republican Democrat gay straight no matter where you're coming from what walk of life what background we want to let you know we hope you feel welcome as we are a nonpartisan channel so I never but none of the moderators that are here share their views or take a side we try as best as we can we're not perfect but we try as hard as we can to be as neutral as possible and welcome everybody so thanks for that and given that we have John Maddox taking the position that pot should be illegal we'll give him the chance to start it off and saying why he thinks it should be illegal and then we'll give it Skyler the same kind of flexible five to ten minute opening they can really use what they need but these are probably going to be short folks and then we'll jump right into the open convo so just want to quick before we do jump into it say thanks so much to our guest for being with us tonight hey hey thank you I looking forward to appreciate you putting this all together I'm looking forward to talking with with Skyler and hopefully we can have some good back and forth about a very important topic as always absolutely so with that we will kick it over to John and I have got the timer set for you John so you had anywhere between five to ten minutes less if you want thanks so much on the floor is yours awesome well before presenting my core argument against the legalization of cannabis for purely recreational use I think that's what we're gonna argue here not about just the purely medical aspect of it I want to make a few things clear to my opponent because after watching one of his videos about the subject decided that I need to clarify a few things that we can save some time in debate now while I'm not going to publicly admit all of my own previous actions it would be a complete error to assume I have no understanding about this drug nor have no personal experience with it well beyond just a you know tried a few times kind of person in fact in my late teens and very early twenties there was a period in which I would be considered a chronic user of it and other currently illegal substances and I have direct experience with the ramifications of well variety aspects but also with the criminal side of the world of controlled substances all the way to personally escaping death at the hands of drug dealers out in the backwoods of Alabama and literally had to dodge some bullets and I also unfortunately had to deal with the execution style murder of one of my best friends and roommates as well and he was heavily involved in the drug drug world so don't think I approach the subject lightly nor of the years have not given a significant thought to the subject moreover it's you know my understanding of its impact on productivity overall ambition and the measure deprecation of cognitive ability and that is what leads me to approach this both from a personal experience perspective as well as bringing a review of evidence from peer-reviewed research I also want to clarify that I have absolutely no objection for its use in real medical issues and if you're you know if you're dealing with cancer or other terminal problems I say go for it I'm also in favor of expanding research into other potential uses and I think there may be many positive applications for its difference chemical elements however in the context of being used in the recreational sense it is now known that it has an effect on executive function productivity risk assessment and a variety of other cognitive tasks and they are measurably negative the position that some people just think better on it has been shown to be a completely false assertion one compared to their actual actual ability when not under its effect moreover the negative epigenetic impact on sperm and a variety of other aspects in reproduction and a plethora of measurable genetic issues in offspring have been identified along with its known ability to cause the expression of different genetic mutations that might otherwise not have been activated specifically in adolescent males it's dramatically measured this along with a variety of other negative health concerns in conjunction with these known mental health issues such as panic attacks and other anxiety issues have caused me to have significant hesitancy to support its recreational legalization however a primary reason I'm against it is very very simple given its known negative effect on productivity excuse me the macro ramifications on society for its use outside of treatment for specific medical conditions must not be ignored and let's be real there is a reason that fast food is no longer fast we have all these different experiences in day-to-day life out in the economy where people are clearly stoned out of their gourd before they come to work and or even continue the state while they're on the job and that's a significant problem and by removing the illegality of its use there will be an ever-expanding new area of litigation against employers if they terminate workers for its consumption now even if you know they're I'm not high right now boss well that's a as I'll explain later in this debates that's not really a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence and beyond that if we remove also remove if we remove their legal restriction there's going to be an expansion of an entire segment of our society that will in my opinion will never escape poverty nor even many of them will even have the ambition to do so so I look forward to this conversation with Skyler and yield the render of my time thanks so much John so we will now switch it over to Skyler for his opening statement again roughly five to ten minute opening statement and then go and open conversation this floor is all your Skyler all right so let me start with saying not going to announce anything that I work for a particular industry but what I will say is that my views may not necessarily represent any kind of company or business related to the cannabis industry that I work for so this is my own opinions my own thoughts my own ideas what I will tell you let's start with what's some of the stuff to address real quick is the health issues there's not been a lot of study done on cannabis first because it's scheduled the way it's scheduled within the federal government they can't do a lot of testing on it's not actually allowed so any of these type of studies we have to really kind of get into the details of because they can be very tricky as the last conversation or last debate I had on this topic there's a lot of mis usage of the data because of the fact because of the fact once again you can't actually study it because it's a schedule I believe schedule one it's it's considered by the federal government same as heroin crack cocaine which is absolutely silly so let's talk about let's so what if it's bad for your health there's lots of things that are bad for your health we don't outlaw them we shouldn't outlaw all things that a consenting adult wants to put in their body I'm not arguing the legalization of drugs marijuana for kids unless of course it's medical which it does have a lot of medical benefits as far as that goes I will say that that if something is bad for you that's not a good reason to make it illegal right we should ban fast food if that's the case ban cheeseburgers ban sugar ban alcohol ban cigarettes I mean what else I mean how far do we go with this I will say that obviously making it criminal has created drug cartels and huge amounts of crime the flow over our border from Mexico making something illegal doesn't stop people from doing it I as I think most people who smoke marijuana will tell you that they when it was illegal you just made it more difficult for them to find not even really difficult they just probably had a wait an hour longer in a parking lot for their dude to show up but what I would say is that you know the amount of money we're going to spend on court cases tax dollars putting people in users in prison is a waste of money it's not it doesn't as we've seen the drug war use of drugs has not gone down when it comes to marijuana it's gone up and it and making something illegal doesn't stop people from wanting it to do it or you can stop him from consuming the product all you do is you create a criminal under element that's going to bring it to the underground and you're going to have all types of problems where you have it completely under regulated and you have a lot of violent crime coming along with that I would say things yeah everybody has different reactions cannabis depends on what you're actually using I said you're not arguing against medical cannabis apparently so I guess you do see there are some medical value to it yeah I think that's it we'll start with just to kind of get going that's a couple things I don't want to go too long with the opium sure we'll get more into it we have discussion but my bottom line would be I don't care if it's bad for people we don't know exactly all the details of it yes it may have some negative effects but so does cheese burgers so does alcohol so cigarettes we don't completely ban them in our country but we get we can go from there you bet thanks so much gentlemen we will now go into the open dialogue section where do you want to start John well address some years from up there so I actually in context of the illegality aspect in the you know criminal records and whatnot I actually forgot to mention this in my opening I personally feel that we should remove the lifetime damage that simple possession convictions create for people by in my opinion don't you're not removing the criminality from it but I think we should have automatic expungements of those charges after a set period of time has passed without any additional infractions so I'm not agreeing with this legalization I also think we shouldn't destroy someone's life in perpetuity for something that is not remotely on the same playing field as you know so many other types of crimes and also I think the you know just in from a legal perspective the complication factor of expungements of so many minor crimes I think that's a just a problem in general in our society of you know so many folks don't even realize they can get different conviction history are removed from their record and the other cost for it is can be very astronomical so I think that's something we definitely do address regardless of this becomes legal or not on a national base I think that's something that definitely does need to be addressed but I'll let you get back in here in a second but the other thing I would like to say and we can talk about some more detail as we go along but I hear the argument of there hasn't been enough research you know it's a very common one and I would have to disagree with you because there's been studies here in the states that have gone on over 20 year periods there's studies from all over the world that have been conducted and if we're just going to ignore the the findings that they have discovered of the negative ramifications just because the study wasn't done here in the United States I mean we wouldn't apply that logic to really any other aspect of science so to do it in this context seems a little bit illogical and like you know folks that are strongly in favor of trying to circumvent some of these potential negatives to what their objectives are well like I said I would even I would just for the sake of argument be happy to grant you that it has negative health effects doesn't make a difference we shouldn't lock people up in our criminal system because that's what we're doing is we're arresting people so first of all you're using resource time for those police officers right they could be out doing something else more productive to a functioning society now the the court's gonna get you know now these people are gonna have to go to court it's gonna be on the record even if you feel that they should be able to get it sponged in a certain amount of time so we're gonna pay the cost to put them in jail overnight okay we're gonna have to pay the court cost for what's going on as a society this person is now gonna have to hire a lawyer and most of the time depending on how wealthy they are they're gonna get they're gonna get a slap on the wrist anyways most of the time now so we're wasting all these resources for no good reason and once again I would be happy to look at some of these studies with you that's fine but we're gonna have to actually look at the study because it is illegal in the United States to actually study cannabis now they can study by doing like polling on people who smoke weed things like that but they can't actually study it because it is considered schedule one now we maybe it's in a different country I'd like to see which country I'm not saying that there aren't countries that have studied it but in the end we could go through those health studies that's absolutely fine but that's it's gonna be irrelevant to me like we like I said I would I imagine you wouldn't be against like outlawing fast food restaurants like McDonald's or alcohol or something like that well I figured you're gonna go down that rabbit hole because I think the answer to a very common in my opinion actually an asinine route to go down like hey we got something that's bad that already is in existence let's add another one to society and if you follow that same logic then we should make you know there's benefits to opioids there's benefits to all sorts of different substances out there that are restricted currently and possession without a medical condition make them criminal aspects and yet I don't really hear too many people scrambling to try and legalized opioids so to you say oh we already have alcohol yeah there's a hell of a lot of ramifications of alcohol too and fast food so you would you would vote to make illegal you would be an alcohol if it was up to you I'm not saying that I'm saying that we if you would you have to be at least throw an argument against alcohol if you're gonna say you're against marijuana no I don't have to I just I just made an argument which was we already have something that's legal in our society so why not argue for it to be dangerous cocaine and heroin used to be legal too so heck the original Coca-Cola was made with cocaine so to say that we should just because something used to be legal or there's other things that are similar from a negative aspect are legal and it's not really a logical reason to bring into the equation and whether or not I would want to ban alcohol is not really relevant to this debate but but it is it would be hypocritical of you if you were to say you were advocating that marijuana should be illegal but then were to argue that alcohol should be legal on some level should opioids be legal well stick to mine now I'll answer that I'm gonna answer your I'm gonna answer your question but you're gonna have to answer my now next I think that it should be it shouldn't be legal to have opiates on your possession people shouldn't be able to be arrested for opioid usage I think throwing users of opioids in jail is not the answer that if you want to have some type of medical treatment people are addicted to those extremely dangerous drug completely different category of something that would be fine but I would say no you shouldn't make it illegal opiates illegal because we don't want to throw people in jail now my question to you are do you advocate that we should make alcohol illegal in this country since your your advocating marijuana should be illegal if we did I think it would save a lot of problems I'm not something I'm gonna go on a campaign for but I mean I did I spent more than enough time drinking and it wasn't until after I had and doing a bunch of other stuff and it wasn't till I had to have emergency brain surgery to save my life that I was able to have a break between the constant state of mental fog even if I wasn't abusing drugs all the time and this is where I come back to the studies and James I don't know if you publish that link I sent to you but I've got a bunch of papers you can happily review but this leads back to my whole aspect of the cognitive deficit that has been measured so for example one of the studies showed it was over 20 years they showed that directly after smoking you're on average your IQ drops about eight points the impairment of executive functions decision-making modifications to drink alcohol you get drunk yes there are yes when you get intoxicated or you get high let me finish my point bro but I this the effect of this on cognitive function was shown to last but you know some around 28 days before they were back to being equal to the control group so and then over the extended period of time they noticed that they're actually show that not only did you have the deprecated IQ directly after using it the average not quite not the average but the went up to like chronic users over that 20 years period of the study lost about six points of IQ and even if they stopped they were never able to recover back to what they had been before so in context of the overall impact on society is if you're looking at expanding the usage of the substance and even if you don't use that often you're actually having dramatically mitigated cognitive ability for a month for example that's that's gonna have some pretty significant impact not only on the person on the user but also on the economy and society that surrounds them and their families and everything else that's something I think actually has to be considered in this whole conversation so can you explain to me how the cannabinoids drop your IQ by what you said eight percent nine percent no I said eight points eight points so how does how does cannabinoids acting within your brain drop your IQ go ahead and read the paper man it's in the link it's I can't we're in a live debate right now like start reading a paper that's what I'm saying you want me to read the boring ass paper no everything else that impacts I just I think it's just not but I mean this is it's not a good thing when we're having a discussion debate you just say hey read this paper but we're in the middle of it's okay so listen that's what I said doesn't matter what my point was usually asked for sources I try well sure yeah but I can't go through it I can't hold on dude hold on hold on I was in the middle of explaining what I was saying go ahead and I read the paper but well dude I'm up first we're live on air I'm not gonna read a paper on air make everybody wait and then I have to respond it's a much more detailed when you read a paper like that this is why I said in the beginning though it doesn't matter I don't care if there are health effects you don't throw people in prison because they chose to freely smoke a plant people don't die from marijuana and let's say it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what the health effects are why are you trying to control what people do like if you're gonna take the position that human beings should be thrown in a prison a jail because they choose to smoke a plant freely something that grows from the ground why are you arguing they should go to prison I didn't make that argument I actually did you smoke before we started this debate because I literally stated that I don't support minor possession being treated the same as higher level crimes so you're just trying to tax people basically so all you want to do is when people get caught with weed you want them to pay a bunch of money so basically a new revenue service for the government no that's not okay so well okay hold on so this is how legality works I mean so like hold on hold on I'm gonna answer I'm gonna respond to you so you understand what I'm talking about so when you're saying it's make it illegal there has to be some kind of punishment that follows from it okay so if it's not jail time it's going to be some type of fee like this is actually how states when they start to decriminalize what they'll do is first they'll they'll they'll change the laws they'll loosen them up right they'll start making it just so where it's fines that you have to pay and then eventually when they they smarten up and realize how good it is for the state and how good it is for the people there they wise up but so the other instance they're not going to go to jail you're just gonna find them so is that what you're arguing for the make it illegal and then fine people a certain amount of money does that lower the amount of people smoking weed like how does that effectively get you to where you want where people don't smoke weed as much or at all I'm sure how this is relevant to whether or not it should be legalized but the and again I'm not necessarily your argument I'm arguing against you when you say that's not my argument well you're okay okay again because you have been listening to my arguments bro see and then first of all it's when you talk like this how much have you smoked like it makes me think that you really don't understand how marijuana works that's what I think that conversations and dialogue while hi on cannabis well actually a break well actually the studies that I've read have directly showed that they actually do have problem with rapid recognition working memory and a variety of other aspects like verbal fluency in it ultimately understanding components and elements that are given to them so I claim claim I read it directly from studies okay please yeah quote can you give us a quote from them yeah quote it there's links there's links bro yeah go ahead my man you quoted for us what's what's the most compelling evidence from a particular article you want me to go find an exact quote okay fine well I mean you're you're making a claim that it does this damage I'd like you to support it so now you want me to support something that I literally said you can go read the paper on and I have to go and read it verbatim right the second while we're in the middle of a debate that I mean I mean you're okay I mean I then you could just take your quote back why should I accept what you're saying is true why should I accept the fact that you say that no studies have ever been done that say what I've said what are you just asked me to prove a negative is that what you asked me to do now you said that studies okay dude just can you find the quote for me can you find me something to support your argument or you can answer my question about what if you're saying that marijuana should be illegal what is the penalty then because it's either gonna be charge people tickets you're gonna make people pay fees to the government are they're gonna go to jail what do you feel why they don't have to go to jail if it's basic possession they can do that's what I'm saying they can pay service there's all sorts of different things they can so you don't so you want them to you want them to go work for the government then so you're not saying find them you're saying hey you can go do community service because we caught you with pot so now basically you can become a slave for the local okay so you want to make this about money for the government when one of the primary arguments that the cannabis supporting industry uses is that oh there'll be all this tax revenue that goes to the government from all of the weed we're gonna sell on the edibles and now you're trying to throw money being brought into the state as a opposition point like no no I'm actually arguing I'll know what I'm actually just doing is articulating to the audience what you're actually arguing for and that's what I'm trying to do now my position is listen I would be really happy my ultimate like best place how it would look the best is if every state allowed marijuana and didn't tax it and just let people sell it and grow it right listen I'm willing to compromise if states are smart enough to realize all the benefits that they're gonna get from taxing marijuana and making it recreational Colorado is a great example they've done lots of good things in their state with it your solution is not throw people in jail but make people do community service go pick up trash on the sides of the road when they get caught with a plant that they are freely choosing to smoke and that's what you want you want them to be in servitude to the government that's what we get to with what your position is I want them to be in servitude to the government if they are in medical need of the substance then they can use it legally and there's no ramifications from a criminal perspective if you don't fall into that category then you shouldn't be using it and there is a price to pay like I'm not really understanding how that logic applies to every other element of criminal law it should be illegal in the world so don't make things don't make it illegal how about that how about we just don't make it illegal so we don't have to pay all this tax besides making people pay tax money we're paying tax money the people who live in that in those states in those counties because our money has to go to like the court system and the time spent with the police officers arresting these people when they can be doing much better things this is society in a society but and just because so what it why does it matter so by the way I found a quick quote by the way this study is from 2012 University of Oregon so ironically it was done here in the United States but and what was the specific study done on let's see the title is persistent cannabis users showed neuro psychological decline from childhood to midlife now you know why they might be able to have studies on this is because they can actually poll people it's polling people it's not actually studying the plant they actually did no they affect say the effect with control groups and we exactly by it by the effect of these be they can pull people and what's going on yeah okay so let's see where is that close sorry I have to read the title okay do study members with more persistent cannabis use show greater IQ decline let's see IQ decline was most pronounced among the most persistent cannabis dependent group but the effect dependence on IQ decline let's see where was that piece on the you should read that well that's not actually really interesting so it's at the highest the people who were using it the most okay okay IQ decline of 0.38 SD units corresponds to a loss of six IQ points from 99.68 to 99.93 results of analysis for persistent cannabis dependence and persistent regular cannabis users were similar and this long story this study was done they started well can you read it can you read that I kind of mumbled off when you're reading it there like what we can you quote the exact what it said there you kind of skipped around a lot I just want to be clear what it's actually saying because it sounds like it's just saying that heavy cannabis users this is who is the longer which is why you didn't want to read the whole thing so if you guys know it's that's cool we'll read it after the debate I'm saying that the the whole point that I'm making here is they see participants for members of a Dundin study a prospective study of birth cohort of 1037 individuals following from birth to age 38 cannabis use was ascertained yada yada yada and they went into how was it how was it ascertained was it by polling people no control groups man anyway let's move on to the next you're obviously trying to avoid the like I said it is no I like I said in the very beginning which I don't care if it causes health conditions to people you're saying that we should lock people up not lock people up punish them by making them communities do community service if they want to smoke a plant and also just to be clear like you have any other aspect to hope to your well there's other aspects other than oh I'm a mean guy who wants people who are breaking the law and becoming less productive members of society to not do that no I don't people aren't necessarily less productive because they smoke pot there are lots of people smoke pot regularly and are very very productive people okay let me see if I can find another study that completely discount why you're used to read the title of the actual study and then not actually quote it is that what we're gonna do with this one too you're telling me to read the study a lot on air so listen it doesn't matter and usually it's caused by heavy it's in most debates both sides bring arguments and they usually relay their source material for people to review after the fact to see whether or not whether argument was true or false the which is echoed I did and James can attest that I send an email with a link to these things I'm referring to to publish in super chat and you can push to push put in the description for like air the sure point I'm making is for you just completely discount the arguments and I'm making when I'm literally saying I have and here is public access to the argument the evidence for the arguments being made and you're just dismissing it I mean that's kind of an asinine way to try and circumvent and discount the arguments I'm making no well this is what I'm getting at is this is the same thing that happened in the last debate that I had with somebody on this actually same topic on this channel what the guy did was throw a bunch of reports at me said that these reports were correct we didn't have time necessarily go into them because these are studies that take a little time to look into and really understand so it basically we had this whole discussion word study after study was thrown but there was no way to actually go into the details in the amount of time we had and my feeling is and after actually doing research on what these studies were afterwards I found out the basically misrepresented the data in a bunch of different ways and I don't have time to go through all your pieces of information trying to if you're misrepresenting data and not saying that you are are you misunderstood the data or you just whatever so that's why like when I'm like hey we'll give me some of you the best quotes from here well I'm like we'll give me something specific I can put my like put a hook into here but I get it it's a report we don't have time to read a whole report here in the middle of a debate if this was something that I thought was correct in the first place I wouldn't trouble you with it like asking to go a little bit more in detail but why I bring keep bringing up the polling is one of the ways that this data is often misused is it's it's rely on how people like answer these questions it's not like scientific study done on the actual plant because they can't study it because it's illegal to do so go ahead my man I said a lot of things I don't worry I mean this aspect of it is just one of you know many health components I mean you have the whole epigenetic impact on sperm that's been directly tied there was a paper just published thing it was April 19th of 2019 on how one of the epigenetic component or effects of cannabinoids on the sperm has been directly linked to autism and there's been a very comprehensive study and then it's been done on a global level that directly linked cannabis to a specific element or specific cause of autism so I mean there's there's tons of these things that I doubt that I would highly doubt that that is true well again go and read the papers after we get done with this and all right let me know if I'm wrong is I literally read these things in the past week I was reading someone for sure listen I don't doubt that you believe that like I'm not I don't think you're dishonest person buddy means but I think that these things are complicated and I think that that there well let's not even get it it doesn't matter here's what I'll say um the money that it's gonna cost also uh what what what what do you say about the black market situation then why like make something keep something illegal and then have a black market thrive and somewhere like Mexico and we have violent drug cartels because of the drug war and what we put in place like don't you see that as a negative towards keeping marijuana illegal all right I think the again I think this is a fun diversion away from the real reasons from my argument perspective of why it shouldn't be brought into everyday recreational use the you know if we focus this on you know medical use kind of use for your true medical issues then you've already mitigated a huge component of the market that actually that was going to the black market specifically to deal with you know pain and epilepsy and you know a plethora of other medical issues that had legitimate reasons to be to be using the substance so obviously that component of it and I think believe there's been studies on that too that the medical marijuana legalization side of the things did impact the cartels to an extent but on the opposite side of that I mean defending or if we're worried about Mexican drug cartels that are literally acting like terrorist organizations I would say one of the easiest ways to take care of it would just be go take them out militarily um in the in the past other aspects of history when things situations like this occurred usually you went and took care of it and because obviously this point the in the Mexican government admits that they are out of control and don't have the really have the assets to deal with them themselves so you know that could be a potential element of how we could address that issue I I think that's it's interesting man because now you're going in order to keep marijuana illegal we should fight cartel wars basically in other countries with our military go in and do military strikes like haven't we learned quite our lesson with going in and going to small organizations like terrorist groups drug cartels uh and trying to execute them and kill them like they just pop up new people like this war doesn't end why does why the United States money you're gonna spend why are you spending money on all this why the United States marines exist what is there what was their original oh I don't remember yeah I learned a long time I was actually in ROTC in school it's terrible I should know some of this but it's been 20 years the entire point of it was to go and take out the Barbary Pirates who were being a criminal cartel and yes very different time period different different different culture different time periods not how the thing the modern world is but but what's your but you're already sure that there was some stuff done in this past century um to address some of these issues I'm trying to remember I think it was Eisenhower and uh if you are might have done some stuff too in that context but the I mean I think you're operating from a little bit of naivete if you think that countries in uh in the modern era people weren't taking action to stop organizations that are running around with howitzers and uh military grade uh but if we create them we fund them through the drug war they wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the drug war and us making illegal and all we do is continue to fund these organizations these these drug cartels vicious violent drug cartels so what which country has the greatest source is the greatest source of the the vast majority other types of uh illegal substances like meth for examples because the cartels operate in Mexico we have a war against meth uh should we legalize that we don't meth's not I don't even believe meth is one of the major things but what does that matter I don't think it should be yeah yeah hold on a second no let me think that through should we well first of all I was still let's say meth is coming through which isn't the situation that isn't that and other things yeah yeah uh you're talking about go like on top of people having to go do whatever it's called uh service for the government now you're talking about using troops and soldiers to go fight drug cartels because you like that's more money and that's people's lives that are on the line all for what because people might get a little dumber when they smoke pot like that's the argument you're trying to make now at this point no actually if you've been paying attention what I've said there's a variety no I've been paying attention there's autism there's a plethora of cancers there it's bullshit I call bulls around your autism thing I'm sorry there was literally a paper published or uh yeah I bet you there was right can you quote that paper I think it was April 19th night I'm actually looking through my notes here I'm trying to find it right now yeah yeah and bro use this thing called google man it's it came up as a number one no listen I'm I expect that when my opponent comes with arguments that he's gonna have these things documented like with quotes and an actual way to kind of outline it to where it seems reasonable and understandable what I've got from you is just empty assertion again it has been published for access by you and the audience I don't even know what you're actually referring to what paper where is it at I've got your screen up I could see you is it in the side chat like is the where is this James where did you put the link I say I have it in the description now all right so it's in the description of the video let me go let's go to this link here for you I don't know why it's it's irrelevant to a sense because I said it doesn't matter whether it's about health or not uh John's like let's see here no debate we gotta go read a paper here uh let's see here I forgot where I saved the link to that one particular article oh where is it James in here way to support you might have to refresh the page if it if you've had the watch oh here we go John John's link studies yeah all right so this is going right to a google drive which one am I looking for in here my man where's the one about autism that's the one I'm trying to see if I saved it in that particular file I'm looking through my history right now let's see you let me know uh I'll just say that here's my thing while you're looking I'm just saying how about we not punish people for a plant how about we not fund uh terrorist organizations drug lords over in Mexico with the money and create an environment in Mexico that's very hostile their people and very hostile to us with us funding drugs how about we not take more money to have federal police now have to go and fight in Mexico in order to stop people from supposedly possibly getting autism from which I highly doubt I mean what are the things you like to discuss man because I know beyond all doubt that I can I will find this particular paper that I'm looking for and embarrass the hell out of you because I know exactly what it says so just not right now during this debate though no I'm looking for it right now I'm gonna find it oh okay I swear but when you embarrass me it won't be doing this one I'm gonna give you the floor to keep repeating the same crap over and over again me listen I've given you I I told you already health doesn't even make a difference even if it wasn't healthy it doesn't make a difference to me people should be able to make choices for themselves who are you to tell other people how what level their intelligence should be at what optimal health they should be in like it's not your business frankly it's not hurting you our goal isn't necessarily to be a top performing society and economic whatever you you view as a top performing person uh that these drugs like marijuana may inhibit and make less of a top person um you're basically just yeah go ahead please let me see of course I found it on my phone hang on just thank you yeah go to click on the uh t and d uh t and d f online 200 francis cannabis use is associated with potentially heritable widespread changes in autism candidate gene dlgap2 dna methylation and sperm go ahead what are you gonna quote from it i just told you which yeah you broke you kind of broke up no no yeah yeah i think you i thought you just to which link it was i thought you were gonna quote okay so the the title of the article is actually the research paper from let's see march 14th 2019 accepted august eighth 2019 uh cannabis which is associated with potentially heritable widespread changes in autism candidate gene dlgap2 dna methylation in sperm the and it goes into large detail yeah like what i mean but what does that mean so like it says it affects this particular okay so do you are you familiar with methylation of dna and i am absolutely not okay so um the vast majority of people are only aware of the fact that we have you know genes and that they're expressed to build proteins well the vast majority people are unaware of is that outside of additional aspects of our genetic code which controls called gene regulatory networks which actually control the expression of different facets of the of our dna there's also an additional component that applies to epigenetics which has only been discovered relatively recently within the majority of within the last decade the concept really in the last 20 years but external factors actually cause something it's called methylation which is a the dna itself doesn't change but the these chemicals come in and basically lock on to a gene expression and basically either turn it off or hyper express it and one of the things they found in this whole process was that he was causing both hyper and hypo expression of different genes specifically in sperm which is then transferred into the offspring and it was directly correlated and they did studies in both rats and humans to determine that this was absolutely was happening and there's a one of the other components of that is it's not in an imprinting region so when an egg and a sperm come together and the two halves join usually the vast majority of the in the imprinted regions which is an additional epigenetic factor when they join the majority of the epigenetic methylation is removed prior to the fetus or the zygote forming and then going on to a fetus because where these genes they're talking about are not part of the imprinted facets of the parent chromosomes those negative variables and modifications that have happened to the parent are passed on to the child and this autism and a variety of the other things that i was mentioning earlier have been shown to become heritable negatives which can go into multiple generations and so this whole the stuff that i'm talking about right now is relatively recent discoveries even the concept context of knowing that what i'm describing is even possible let alone being able to even measure and truly understand the negative impacts that are being caused by things like what we're discussing tonight. So there's audience members saying that in the first because i don't have a link to the stem so you tell me which link it is it says okay i read the paper it says right at the top the first paragraph that they're not saying there is a link further down keep going does it yeah i don't so does but does it say something like that in the beginning there's there is no link and the first paragraph i don't i wish i could read i don't have the which one what's the name of the article on here if i were so i see the links in front of me but which one is it it's a t and d farm on is the link okay and by the way it says discs large associated protein involved in synapse organization signaling and strongly implicated in autism exhibited significant hypo methylation at 17 cpg sites in human sperm we successfully obliterated the differential methylation present in blah blah letters and numbers uh in nine cpg sites located in tron seven it goes on by the way this is just one of the papers on this whole topic yeah this is certainly some i'll have to look over but in the end it doesn't make a difference to me you like that in the end like people's health the people can choose to do what they want to do there's all types of things that you can do that will have adverse effects if you're pregnant and you drink alcohol you're going to give terrible effects to that fetus uh you i'm not going to make mirror what what if someone doesn't have children right someone who's not going to have kids and not to worry about this why why if someone and also a lot of these studies when you look at the studies it has to do with heavy heavy usage from a young age uh why punish people who are just going to use it why once in a while you're bringing up the young age i've actually avoided that one because i didn't want to go down that rabbit hole argument with you because we can in context of the expansively linked issues for adolescent use and i think it's a 30 greater chance of uh no sorry it was a 5x greater chance if you had i forget the exact gene but if you use cannabis that's not answering my question you get into uh parallel to psychosis bipolar that's not what i was asking so i wasn't i wasn't i wasn't asking about i was saying that it does cause damage to children from a young age that if they smoke it at a young age and they smoke it heavily that a lot of those studies that's it kind of reflects a lot of those things what i was asking you is what about people who aren't going to have children people who are young maybe single that are like no i'm not going to have children this isn't going to apply to me or people who just for whatever reasons or say they're going to use it recreation every once in a while once every christmas or something like that they're not going to have any long-term damage from trying it once a year or anything like that why are you going to stop those people from being able to enjoy uh some fun cannabis why don't we let them go pop some uh methadone because it's not do you really equate methadone and cannabis is the same thing no i'm i'm making fun of your argument that it's not you're not very funny no i'm meaning it in because i think it's an asset i know i think he's a very well because you're talking apples and you'd be like it's like you know what you'd be like you to me like when i'm if i made an example about hey uh like you know you shouldn't buy children and then you're like well do you buy dogs like is if like it's you're talking apples and origins methadone to cannabis is completely different it's a completely different subject it's it's pretty it's it's fairly harmless cannabis uh if you don't abuse it like most things okay well i mean there's additional studies that are starting to come out that are starting to showcase that there are more negative health impacts than what has been the perception i mean you can find that everywhere in research and i think that it's only going to continue to be exacerbated and again as i've said multiple times now if it is a if you have uh if you've got epilepsy if you have cancer if you have tons of different issues medical issues i have zero problem with it the entire point that i'm making is you you're looking at extraordinarily minuscule aspects of the macro impact on society if we allow it to come into mass adoption on a on a macro level and right now you're oh yeah i just got to smoke once twice a year okay let's get real man how many people do you know because i know plenty i know lots i work with cannabis i know that's what i'm saying that's why i'm kind of throwing this at you is the vast majority of people that smoke ain't smoking once a year and you know that and i know i don't think you understand cannabis smokers i what i'm going to tell you is that i was one come on man how long how old were you when you were a cancer smoker huh how old were you when you smoked weed late late teens and the early 20s good i i think you have some common misconceptions about i don't know if it was different back then for you maybe the place you were at it was different uh it is a very different world we're living in now and people use it you know you drugs should be treated as a medical issue not a criminal issue that's what it boils down to when you when you make these analogies like about methadone like i don't think you should be arrested for methadone either or crack cocaine or heroin i don't think you should throw people in jail for drugs so let's go back to just legalizing everything that's fine you can legalize it i don't want corporations aren't going to sell them but i i'm owning it of course corporations sell most of the drugs right now but and we're just going to incorporate that element into and hold another drug market and bring that doesn't kill people doesn't cause people to be violent that it seems to be there's tons of positive for every negative study i could bring up a positive study about the effects of what it does it's medical benefits far outweigh these negative things that you're speaking of and i don't like i said i think you're misrepresenting the data outside of the treating very specific medical issues what are the health benefits for the recreational user less anxiety less depression okay so there's literally a study which i have a link to that showed i think believe it was uh i think the term is either persistent users we're 30 more likely to suffer from persistent users people who are abusing cannabis no chronic users is the abuse term persistent is using on a regular basis sure even if you use a regular basis what i'm sorry repeat the question again i want to make sure i understand you just stated that you're less likely to be depressed having less anxiety and whatnot sure what i'm making is there is there have been studies some of which i have links to in my resources there that show that yes there can be a short term benefit but the studies show that the long-term outcome is there is actually much higher probability of suffering from depression anxiety panic attacks and so on in there's a very short term benefit long term it is not and these are the kind of things that i'm talking about in the kind of arguments that you and other defenders of the cannabis industry who are trying to make billions get it what the rabbit hole is y'all rundown is to gloss over that there are massive negative ramifications down the line for example your hippocampus homo restructures itself in a negative fashion i mean come on man first of all uh uh for every like i said this is i when you when you look at these studies that i'm sure you're gonna you've you've put in this paper i'll have to go through now after the debate and look through each one of these studies and find where the data is being misrepresented cannabis is we don't have any deaths from cannabis we have no links to cancer from cannabis we don't have false sorry that's false it's i'm sorry you like said this data i guarantee you like said we could pull up we could look at that data but here's the thing uh it doesn't matter even if it does harm people you don't treat drugs as a crime if you at least like if at least if you were telling me let's make this a medical situation and make this about like uh getting people help like that would make sense but what you're talking about is criminalizing making there be a penalty there you go again i keep talking over and over again encountering your point with saying that the medical the true medical uses i have zero problem with those and that's already legal i'm not trying to take away the ability for the medical the true medical use of what is true medical use what does that mean to you uh things that are directly shown to help i mean let's also as a sidebar on this too in context of the like pain relief for folks if somebody has terminal cancer do you really think myself or really anybody else cares if they want to smoke while they're literally facing death i have zero problem with that whatsoever and so to act like i'm trying to keep it all back from people who have true needs is a completely it's a complete false dichotomy you're trying to create and when you look at a good friend of mine moved to san franc right and he was able to get the medical card and all this kind of stuff because he was suffering from panic attacks right he'd been smoking for years and ended up actually losing a very high level job because he started having panic attacks at the office and you know he was smoking wax or doing all sorts of stuff anyway the he finally decided his therapist finally told him hey man i really think that what is causing these is the fact that you're smoking so much i want you to try and stop he did hasn't had a panic attack since that's part of what he went through as part of the reason i even know about the aspects of uh the depression and the panic attacks because i started doing research about it myself and looking into the studies of what some of the the macro uh outcomes were and so when he called me to talk about this whole thing man i think i might try and stop you know i'm having all these problems and what not i try to encourage and i was like hey dude i actually read some papers on this what they're telling what your therapist is telling you there's evidence for well you know but that's a personal anecdote but i'm saying that it's direct support of the evidence that the studies have shown well here's the thing is i think you've got to understand that cannabis is a very complicated product and there's various different forms of cannabis and if people get the wrong kind of cannabis it can cause anxiety attacks panic attack or is it uh anxiety and panic attacks sativa it's a very sativa dominant thing i know it is man well this is for the audience just to let them know so just in case they're not aware and i don't want you painting this picture like it's this bad awful thing and i think people probably realize that it's not exactly what you're you're making it out to be uh i'm saying that there are people every day that are treated with medical cannabis for anxiety and depression that all have very positive stories right uh i would say that when you look at those you have to look at the data and you see how they did the testing what's going on it's not actually testing on the plant it's testing based on people so polling asking them questions uh and i think you'd have to look into those type of things and i i think that for every positive story you keep making this argument about testing on people not on the plant okay so the the different chemical opinions basically no no no no no we're talking about epigenetic studies you are literally looking inserting the chemicals into the test subject and observing the physical genetic ramifications in physical outcomes that is not just taking a poll there's there's a ban on medical testing of cannabis you cannot you cannot test cannabis in this country it is federally banned and as i said at the very beginning of this when we brought this whole subject was there have been studies done around the world you even you haven't quoted those studies tonight the particular study that you're saying which study are you referring to then that one isn't a international study is it i mean you did this work to get them so you should at least be able to explain them a little bit like that last one dude you there's no way someone would be able to read that data live on air and be able to come to a conclusion that is a very complicated article i'm really understanding i don't really understand how i'm bringing high learning until we go into the q and a okay i know that sounds good i'm really sure how my bringing high-level information and framing it to an audience is somehow possibly viewed as a debate i mean no what what i'm saying is it's a shady tactic is what it is it's like hey here's a paper here's a well if you have you are you're not if you're trying to listen to me or you try to talk over me i can tell you if you want to listen do you want to hear it bro you just said i was doing this point you just said i was being yeah yeah and i'm literally published the information i can tell you i could tell you why it's a shady tactic if you want to know what it is good right because that's not how the conversation went right you're like well there's this paper and i'm like okay well what paper and you're like well you know it's on the internet you ever heard of google like you're saying things like this to me i said that well after i talked about the you talked to you're like you gotta get google dude published listen to i said that well after and i had no access to those links did i did you send me those links before the show because that would have been a good idea i james did i send it to you before the show yes or no james isn't me did i ask you to publish it for it be available for everybody yes or no uh to be fair to skyler it was like right before the debate so i don't know if it would have given skyler enough time to read them given that it was pretty close to the start time so fair enough but he's sitting here just skyler you're sitting here dismissing everything while arguing that possibly exist just because in certain aspects they're not allowed here in the united states while taking the position that what are you taking the position that no studies have been done in other countries around the world like should we just dismiss everything that's not what i was saying i would say we'd have to look at the particular studies because the studies that you've referenced so far have been in the united states the one was from organ i believe that was not if the other one was also the that was yeah so well i think you've only referenced two and actually got into two reading but it's okay because i was trying not to bore the audience as you said it would be very boring if we just sat here in red papers well yeah i mean but you should at least come in with concise like argument right instead of just appealing me like hey this is this causes autism i'm like bullshit and you're like so me read the article like what else do you want me to do with that then i like so i don't mean to cut you off i just let you guys know we're gonna go to q and a pretty quicker so if you want to have somebody i'm willing to defer to the other the last word have your last word john uh no i'm good man it's uh let's go to q and a gotcha thanks so much gentlemen and want to say thanks so much for your questions out there folks very excited to read through these so first we do have a number of let me see if i can switch over really quick that's embarrassing i've got a two different lists that are divided on accident so do want to let you know though folks both skylar and john's links are in the description so highly encourage you if you're listening you're like mmm i want to hear more for that well you can hear more about that at those links that i put in the description for you and then of course as mentioned i put john's links for those studies down in the description as well so if you'd like you can definitely click click on that google drive link and then or i should say google docs link and then you can from there see those studies links for each one so thanks so much for your super chat starting off from stupid whore energy as she likes to call herself she says pizzazzu says i'm a citizen i swear gotcha it's like gee have another drink lady all right i'm just kidding that was a totally a joke okay um a poser of religions's best debate channel on youtube thanks for your super chat um that's really encouraging i don't think it's true but it's always that's kind of you it's encouraging cizia fader sorabia thanks for your super chat says can we get a definition of drug is it sugar like would soda fit the description they ask there's so many things that can potentially fall into that uh conversation i mean i would say it's something that has direct physiological and psychological impact on the body in some form gotcha yeah i suppose okay in skyler you're probably pretty much in the same boat or are there any changes you make yeah i guess i just my i just wouldn't make everything illegal that's what i wouldn't do gotcha i'm in the pro let people do what they want with their bodies gotcha and thanks so much for your super chat coming from steven steen a nasty guy says the reason skyler can't win debates too much weed oh he's a nasty troll out there uh oh so let's see steven steen also says weed is a gateway drug to trump very nice oh oh you know can we ban him can we can we do that on this channel james i think it's time it really is his days are numbered oh flamie oh thanks for your super chat he said is maddox a cartel spokesperson jeez wow he's not hey hey hey let me respond to that one i'm assuming that guy must be a dumbass because i literally have argued over and over again that we should keep uh medical marijuana legal and i literally called for the united states military to go crush the drug cartels so dude when you get your iq back come back and talk to me oh snap sassy john thanks for your super chat from stupid horror energy strikes again she says if you have ten dollars and james has five dollars james has fifteen dollars i think that's her way of encouraging super chats i'm not sure but thank you stupid horror energy no matter what that means a little fat girl that's what they call themselves thanks for your super chat they say john maddox if you make a claim you yourself have to back that claim up you have the burden of proof again that's literally why i said to publish the links prior to so i wouldn't have to deal with stupid super chats like that one oh i'm literally providing the evidence to support my argument people are just too lazy to go and read it for themselves gotcha thank you very much that and that to be honest that might have been my fault because i i only put them in there i missed that email john sorry about that um i put your links in like halfway through the debate so that might have been my fault that they that that person had not seen them mitchell thanks for your super chat question for skylar how do high iqs individuals with unsettling synapses calm down without the god created element such as thc to do so good question i don't know the answer to you gotcha i'm sorry it's above my head i'm figuring out what it's asking all right steven steen nasty guy is back oh steven you know it's funny that steven steed is becoming known for hanging out usually at mail youtube channels hitting on those um and saying all sorts of stuff in addition to that so steven steed thanks for your super chat who says i doubt the weed the weed sperm had enough motivation to fertilize an egg they'd stop at taco bell and likely just sit there well steven this is just nasty really nasty guy sx zero thanks for your super chat they asked do you have any idea how many substances are illegal and yet the government do test and do studies on them they probably do some uh they do a lot of things our government that's an interesting one probably not supposed to be doing yeah those old you guys remember the story of the government what drug was it that they tested it i think it was like oh lsd that they were testing it on they did the syphilis wasn't syphilis on the testy gearman that's yes that that is what i'm talking about are you talking about a disease okay i think i'm talking about drugs now that's totally that's totally legit too that story it's great it's a very sad part of our history and i had heard this is like pure speculation but it's it's just too interesting not to bring it up because i for sure i've heard of the was it tuscuggie uh which yeah tuskegee uh that uh case but i had also heard of i think it was in i thought it was in like los angeles that allegedly this is like probably totally wrong but there's something to the effect of that allegedly the government purposely like introduced crack cocaine into a minority uh like neighborhood or set of neighborhoods and that they like uh knowing of course that it's like one of the most i think one of the most addictive drugs and they i don't know if it was some sort of sick social experiment it's alleged well anyway uh so anyway i think i think there were some i think spike leading a couple movies on that back in the 90s yeah but i feel like it was not just i i thought that there was like there's reports of it being like having been some there's some truth to it but anyway it's definitely been alleged many times over the years for sure okay uh anyway thanks for your patience i'm wondering now we've got steven steen doing another super chat nasty guy just never goes away uh let's see maynard saves thanks for your super chat they said any studies to share from portugal i bet not that's what they said i was just for i was reading a little bit of this study while we're talking this the one study gave me was all done on rats is what it says on rodents there's actually rats in human aspects to it yeah you haven't gotten to the human part yet it just keeps saying rats and rodents it's interesting yeah no i'm just there's there's a whole last there's a whole another there's also an additional paper i'm yeah i don't know if i put it in the link into it or not that does direct corollaries between human and rat yeah this first one's here rodents all right okay let's see that what's our next question james gosh yeah and folks i'm gonna try to get through as many questions as we can but i do have to wrap up by 8 30 my time 10 30 i think skyler's time and so we won't get through all of them but we're we're definitely gonna get through the super chats and then some of the standard questions as well so thanks for your patience uh steven steen nasty guy says jim majors losing a debate to dana in the chat well i'm sorry to hear that jim uh better luck next time next up thanks for your now jim says one thanks for your super chat jim he says question for skyler who's a bigger beta dana mcwhite or john maddox beta who just asked that question jim majors jim major jim majors i challenge you to debate grow some balls and let's go bro oh snap it's on all right skyler you have to answer it though i don't sorry i'm just gonna do john since he's here i don't even know the other person oh terrible sorry john lots of betas around here that's steven steen except in good faith i'm not too worried about my alpha status appreciate that very nice uh let's see nobody's as beta as steven steen don't worry you're safe akira's kizanidi thanks for your super chat they asked why do people want to control others with what they do with their lives as long as people are not hurting others then keep to yourself and stfu which i think stands for standing for truths underwear i don't know but go ahead we all know what that means yeah but okay if you want to answer the question you can i've answered that question that's a very similar question of that all night let's go to the next snapchat or the super chat i get next up we're in the standard questions and well you had just another super chat come through from jim majors who says you're on john get ready for all the balls nasty guy all right thanks for your super chat you're seeing super chats tonight then yes what did you expect man we look at the topic we're discussing you knew there were going to be crazy ones yeah that's true part of the reason my uh i structured my opening the way i did was to circumvent all the dumbass questions of you know you're a little boy who has no experience you'll know what you're talking about you never tried it i was doing that just to circumvent those questions that's excellent appreciate that and we do appreciate this next question which comes from ted flanders thanks for yours they asked for skyler do you think the united states would be better off with pot or without it wish of course gosh yeah that's a really silly question that that might have been in like the first few minutes or something yeah it would be way better off with a bunch of people with lower iqs and lower uh cognitive function yeah it's definitely a benefit to society no i there are a large amount of pot smokers right now society's running just fine uh i i i have more worry about maybe some of these other substances that we have completely illegal before going after something like cannabis god it's very very helpful thank you very much and thanks so much ed freeze for your question they asked could you ask maddox what he thinks about the fact that making things illegal puts it in the hands of criminal control i also answered that question i guess they smoke too much to listen to the answer i gave like five times this is really early so they it's probably that the uh they asked it really early he said hire the police to kill mexican cartels is that what you said no i said if we really if we really i was accused of being a defender of the cartels and i said uh as i mentioned earlier if i'm a defender of the cartels why in the hell would i say that we should just send the military down to crush them since the mexican law enforcement can't take care of it themselves and have admitted they don't have the resources to do so and actually there's been talks between dc and mexico city about this exact subject if they didn't get it under control god but i mean but how do how do you address the idea that it does fund the cartels us having it illegal and you've created a different market so i mean but how so how do you deal with that like you what you're you're basically the only thing you can argue is keep the status quo or use our military to go attack cartels in other countries next again you apparently did not listen to my responses in this debate because i answered that question from you directly i think two or three times next question please gosh the audience the audience will judge that one man got question or a time for maybe more than maybe one or more questions uh ask justinian thanks for your question they ask ask him why he is stating epigenetics to cause sperm to alter and cause autism when epigenetic traits are not transferred genetically oh god i also explained this in great detail earlier rewind uh to about 25 minutes ago and listen to the response i gave on that one and then go google imprinted chromosomes go google imprinted chromosomes and the and how methylated epigenetic factors can be passed on to offspring usually for two to three generations at the max and then go google flatters you can google that too see what you come up with i actually can go read published books and lots of papers on this factor so maybe you before you make fun of it you should go research and learn a little bit about it no it's the googling part that i'm making fun of it's for your people to go google stuff just like you did one of my favorite tools of all time was the let me google it for you uh web tool where you type in a search query and then send somebody a link and it goes and literally types in the search query form this way to be a go use google i like that next want to say thanks so much folks it has been a true pleasure you got to wrap up but want to say it's been a pleasure as always our guests are linked in the description i put those links there so if you're listening you're like mm i got to get some of that well you can get some of that at those links so these guys we really appreciate them being with us terrific guys and thanks so much for all your your questions tonight folks it's always fun and so yes gentlemen one last thanks i appreciate you being here skylar and john thank you all right take care folks keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and then as mentioned oh wait i don't think i mentioned this destiny and vosh in person which is coming up pretty quick now as i think tomorrow's march first right yeah yeah so march 17th that's going to be in person in los angeles and then as i had mentioned skylar's favorite topic this he used to go back and forth with his arch nemesis praise i am that i am on whether or not whether or not demons are aliens that will be tomorrow at 9 p.m eastern standards so skylar is it it's been a long time it sounds like you've like basically you've said i'm not debating praise it and that's definitely what you told me skylar are you you're debating whether demons are aliens tomorrow no that's not i gotta watch that that would be interesting that i i'm glad you did not come to me with that it's hey skylar if you actually did do that i would totally understand if you decided you needed to smoke before that one that we should i would have to like just just uh dumb things down a little bit it's gonna be so good and i mean but skylar i you know i know that you had told me you said no james i won't i won't debate praise anymore so that's that's true every but this is like he man in skeletor right this is like the old matchup that people want to see no this is not gonna happen he's your your greatest rival on youtube that you've had that is not true that's not even like close to like the like matt slick and a bigger one i mean praise has been on my channel like one dime i just i have a no i just have a no praise rule i'm sorry i can't dish praise if you're watching we hope you're well it's uh i i i tried for you praise all right so thanks so much have a great night everybody take care