The following is a presentation of TFNN power trading hour with your host David White call now toll free at 1-877-927-6648 internationally at<PHONE_NUMBER> now David White and welcome all to another exciting edition of the power trading hour with me your humble and yet squeeze really soft host as always we like to come to you at this time the following takes place between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. so 21 almost 22 points on the SNP cash at 2866 the Dow 30 up 152 NASDAQ up 68 69 Russell 2000 up about five of course we had a fairly decent pullback why we don't have the absolute number for options for Delta neutral we're gonna get those tomorrow we had a huge move yesterday that pushed up more than likely as far as the data now better than a 50% chance that we close above 2900 come the 16th of August so there's pretty good odds that we're gonna close higher over the next week maybe not a lot higher maybe we have kind of a sideways market to digest a lot of the news over the last week or two but if you're thinking you're gonna hear me saying the end is nigh I don't think so the market was weak it had had light volume up there at the highs but we really haven't seen the deterioration in earnings that generally comes before any long time or long term pullback in the market again options are actually rather bullish at least for the next three and let's call it eight trading days we'll see if that goes in it's a lot more predictive tomorrow the numbers could go up from a of the odds of a 2900 or higher close on the 16th in the S&P cash to 80% tomorrow we'll see but fairly decent odds that we're probably not going to have anything lower than we saw yesterday so kind of an interesting play on it today is the end of fun buying on probably 99% of the ETFs we'll say that they're going to be 100% long at a certain date there's no real penalty if they don't but very few of them are not 100% invested by the time the 6th of a month rolls around when we look at volume of course we're actually starting to see you know volume that we saw before 4.7 billion shares so far today so actually a fairly strong volume both down and up for August when are normally it's about half speed and of course probably the biggest thing we want to look at is the dollar index it's up 14 cents 9745 when you look at it it just been kind of trending up since last night in this price range a little a little bit I'm going to say that skewed a little bit just slightly higher as we go through that and of course for the big things it's the it's where is it had out here we want to keep an eye on is the TLT we're up in that 139 range which is again kind of in the nosebleed section for these would not be surprised to see yet another huge move maybe even to the downside in the TLT really looks like they push this maybe as hard as they could and I don't know if there's a great deal left out there we'll talk about some of the big stocks we'll talk about earnings last night and this morning earnings after the bell tonight we're going to have at least a couple that could move the markets a little bit we'll see how that goes in the meantime let's do a little history we'll get into some charts the following takes place between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. and oh we already did that I need history it is nothing but history it kind of rhyming not actually repeating on this day in 1997 at Macworld Expo in Boston Steve Jobs announces that Apple and Microsoft have signed a five-year alliance Bill Gates famously makes his seemingly ominous big brother appearance on the large presentation screen during the announcement of course at that time Microsoft was starting to get the wins of antitrust they thought the best thing to do is make sure that they weren't the last big software and PC manufacturer in the world now on this day they actually gave Apple 150 million which wasn't that much at the time Apple did have a billion dollars in the bank but what they couldn't do is develop any new products over the years that ended up being about you know closer to two billion by the time that 2005 rolled around and you can say that without Microsoft Apple would have never had all its big hits it never would have been able to find the funding it needed during the darkest times around the dot com blow up and of course Microsoft was had to look everywhere all the time once 2000 rolled around and as far as they were concerned they couldn't really spend any money on new projects without having the government down on so they might as well have stuck that money in in Apple and seeing them grow it was a fairly good investment over time and depending on who you listen to that 1.5 billion dollars through 2005 was cashed out from 2015 through 2018 for some 30 billion dollars so you never know where that money is going to actually come from Microsoft I think is pretty much out of all of its Apple shares I don't think that they have anything to speak about anymore in the snooze today Amazon's big owner Mr. Bezos and the CEO where's my chart here let's pop that up real quick has sold in the last couple of days actually August 1st and 2nd 750 million dollars worth of shares not so much though that you would think that that's kind of a ominous sign but remember he is and will be selling shares for both him and his wife and I would not be surprised at 750 million dollars a good hunk of that is not already headed to as soon to be or already ex-wife I do not know but down on some volume again a lot of these stocks with some very big overhang of antitrust issues I would not be surprised to see a similar path to Microsoft where these companies start investing in other companies to avoid antitrust if you're not currently using the Taz profile scanner when looking at setting up your trading opportunities then your arsenal is short a mighty weapon the Taz profile scanner is a standalone piece of software that instantly filters over 2500 global financial markets such as stocks ETFs commodity futures and 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be there tomorrow and we will go into options delta neutral that's where they try to reduce the amount of movement and the portfolio to almost nothing because that's where they can actually get their hands burnt fairly good with cheap options so they pretty much make sure that they hedge both sides of the bet but a fairly nice movement out here up 31 points now in the s&p cash someone corrected me during the break i'd seen the article where he'd sold 750 million shares i mean dollars already at amazon but uh yep there's a article out there saying that it's almost three billion dollars out there and of course many are saying that he's going to use that extra money to fund blue origin his space shot but at the same time i went back and looked at those articles and it does look like maybe that 750 million is headed to the ex-wife why he takes the rest of it to fund blue origin so i don't imagine these kind of things will come out here in a little bit is there a horrible short interest in the market no it really looks like the people in the market that were getting bearish had bought a lot of downside protection in the vixx but not so much in individual stocks and it may just be a new trend in the market to buy downside protection in the vixx and not short individual stocks but try to stay long when you can we'll keep an eye on that and see how it works out as we said after the bell tonight we've got some interesting earnings coming out one is disney wind resorts planet fitness gw pharmaceuticals the only legal cannabis company match group hurts global holdings although i think we already had a vis out already we'll look at that papa john's pizza what else do we have that's kind of it for the big names although now is what we're getting into are a lot of the small names i mean there's about 400 stocks reporting after the bell tonight i would say 350 of them you've never heard of before the other ones you may have heard of but or maybe untradeable maybe 20 of them 15 of them are something interesting so small cap tonight and tomorrow morning before the bell we get cvs health care cyber arc lumber liquidators a handful other ones wendy's international is that right am i on the wrong day yeah that'd be seven and a handful of others so we'll keep an eye on that earnings this morning and after the bell last night allergen not much movement on this one yeah i looked at the reports earlier this morning i can't remember anything about it so it doesn't seem that interesting just kind of coming back here to where the support has been at 160 bucks car which is of course is avis rent a car um spike down lower in the day not that horribly 31 dollars and 92 cents i kind of back to where it was the day before earnings no big deal the giant loser of all time uh is uh dean's food uh not a big cap stock by any stretch of the imagination but a huge downside move uh in the actual company off 29 percent as we speak 87 cents i didn't i couldn't remember that this company being in such a death throws from previous times but i mean this was a 21 in 65 cent stock uh two years ago a year and a half yeah two and a half years ago so it's been on a one-way trip since january 4th 2017 where this thing hit its eye at 21 dollars and 65 cents uh done nothing but sell off since then energizer holdings those battery folk come on give give come on i know you can do it nothing there let's redo this here and see okay got a good quote here uh another one that uh is take taking it with uh beating with the ugly stick today uh down uh to the low of 32 dollars and 81 cents actually blew through just about everything back to where is this gap here to to to february 3rd of 2016 everybody's in a losing position pretty much since back then uh and if i'm not mistaken buffett was big in this he may still be maybe i'll get a chance to check during the break but this may be one of his big losers i can't remember if he's already gotten out maybe somebody in the den remembers um but i remember him getting into this big time maybe this is why it's fallen like a souffle in a 1970s sitcom if you ever watched the brady bunch that was it uh ellen was always was it ellen was always cooking something and the kids were always slamming the doors and the souffle would fall well back to the giant gap higher and you're going to get that retest here probably fairly quick um maybe rechargeable batteries are just kind of doing away with uh selling a lot of d and c and a cells anymore uh but and maybe just led lights mean that you don't need to use so many batteries i don't know but it certainly looks like there is a trend uh oh is that uh duracell is what uh buffett has uh like i said i'll have to check on that i kind of vaguely remind and remember that he was in all those we'll find that out during the break international flavors another death throws buffett equals duracell okay uh to december 24th 122 87 and international flavors and fragrances blew through that today and uh this is quite the haircut you're back to this gap that goes back to march 21st uh this does i would have said looks like it's in a giant trading range except for the monster volume today that is blowing through everything let's see um looks like this would come back to 107 54 which is the january 6 2017 low okay and what else did you marry international again down just a little bit but it was in a downtrend already headed back to the gap of june 4th that had 1.8 million shares you already have 2.85 million shares uh but uh didn't hold the low so it's a little bit better mosaic company uh those potash companies and fertilizer companies um back to the may 29th low with a huge amount of volume this looks like it may hold that low we'll be back after this path of least resistance is david white's daily trading newsletter and if you're looking for active trading ideas then now is a perfect time for a 30 day free trial to this powerful daily trading advisory service david uses his years of 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of timing the trade charts today by visiting tfnn.com this segment is brought to you by think or swim for more information just click the think or swim banner on the front page of tfnn.com and i did go back and look at it right there cell is buff and i couldn't remember which one they're blaming the the the uh that the weather hasn't been that bad that there haven't been enough tornadoes and uh hurricanes to drive battery sales and a little bit of what i said which is you know with uh rechargeable batteries people just aren't buying that much anymore in fact i bought a new flashlight and it's rechargeable with a usb connector on the back of it it's pretty much a throwaway i don't think i can replace the battery in it but uh if i went to a long drawn out thing but you know if it lasts four five years i'm probably going to be that money ahead on the rechargeable for not having to put a bunch of double a's in it or something so i could see that that would change something uh shake shack out after the bell last night fairly nice uh pop um back into this gap that goes back pretty much uh into the ipo time frame where's it at here come on there we go um actually not seventy dollars june 20th or july 20th 2018 seventy dollars and 12 cents uh but a huge spike and uh i don't know i we don't have one anywhere that i see but i do tend to watch a lot of tv shows and these guys have gotten a lot of free press especially for tv uh tv shows filmed in and around hollywood and and la and you know they a lot of times you sell the sizzle not the steak in this case it's the overpriced hamburger and uh deep some kind of fries with cheese or something on it maybe someone will call in and tell me that's been to a shake shack why this thing is worth this because i don't know maybe if i went there it would change but i'm unaware uh another uh stock out sanofi with information about uh their new drug but it really didn't do anything today uh take two again this was the one i talked about yesterday could have a huge spring back it was down yesterday on everybody blaming it that its games were uh making people go out and shoot people i play a couple of their games and so far i've only shot a few just kidding folks um no video games probably don't make people shoot anybody they were probably nuts already but certainly these games continue to do well nice spike to 12850 today it's up it's uptrend is intact a short time out there for me to sneeze um and you're off to new highs um let's look a little bit farther uh when you uh looking for all-time highs this looks like it's well on its way to the october 1st 2018 high that's 139.91 i think this pop right here is everything that you needed that you needed to see this go up let's turn this down a little bit and see if i can get something there um a little lighter energy uh so far but not that bad uh i think you've got a high probability of testing 139.91 uh the question is if we get into that or on september they come out with a new title that shows that they're going to drop another two or three billion dollars in sales um and that'd be it now as far as a value proposition um i find it kind of interesting some of the data i'm not a big player i know people play video games all the time but i've had a game for like two years and it keeps track of how many hours you actually play on it and i remember i paid about 50 bucks for the game it's right up my alley i love playing it uh and it told me that i played it for over 200 hours now and you got to think if you pay 50 bucks for a game get to play it for 200 hours you pay 12 bucks for a movie get to watch it for two and a half uh plus these are more interactive uh you can even buy additional expansion packs and play it longer i can kind of understand especially if the value proposition but not only that um just you know maybe the change in the way that movies have been put out actually probably helps video game companies there's a handful of tentpole movies in the summer and once those are over you generally get the release of the big tentpole games come the fall and in climate weather so it probably works out fairly well that there are fewer bigger movies and uh very few smaller movies anymore they either go to netflix or amazon or some of the other streaming services and i can imagine with disney coming on in fact let's take a look at disney uh pre earnings tonight we'll refuse to entry upon the flight uh why is that tsa officer uc puller refuse to entry upon the flight oh i've only shot a few okay i get um um well disney company back down into this gap uh just uh okay you gapped up on the 13th of june you did so on 18 million shares i think that was earnings too now it wasn't earnings something else and you're back into it with 10.7 million shares yesterday so not a bad test of that gap area going into earnings of course uh they're going to be pushing their streaming service this fall um they've got a lot of titles and it may be a great way to monetize some of that older stuff that they've had out there for a while but uh i don't know exactly how many people i guess if you have kids probably an instant buy isn't it i don't you know amazon you get amazon prime with your with your amazon subscription are ready so it's not a thing i you know the way that this is probably stacking up is that you'd keep amazon prime video and if you had netflix you might you know if you're going to cannibalize something i think Walt disney would be more than likely to cannibalize netflix more uh than amazon prime uh in xlf right net nflx excuse me i guess i'm glad that i pretty much fly private everywhere since i don't go that far uh did you do what do you've got okay netflix you did test the low blowout after earnings i'll talk more about this when we come back actually tested with what my team yeah not bad about half the volume yesterday we'll be back in a minute if you're in the cd market and looking for a secure investment the tiger 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newsletters page of tfnn.com what are you waiting for all of the tfnn newsletters are informative up-to-date affordable and must have for every trader looking to gain a competitive informational edge in today's markets tfnn newsletters cover every aspect of the markets to offer you the very latest in market news plus new subscribers get to test drive our newsletters risk-free for 30 days from all aspects of the markets including stocks bonds metals commodities and tech there's a newsletter to fit your needs exclusively from tfnn stay informed each day you trade and get that competitive edge that will help you stay ahead of the game visit our newsletters page by going to tfnn.com and click the newsletters button near the top of the page tfnn.com educating investors are china a shares hot or not if you trade china a shares now may be time to take a closer look trade chau or chad directions daily csi 300 china a share bull and bear ETFs china a shares in either direction visit direction investments.com today an investor should consider the investment objectives risks charges and expenses of the direction shares carefully before investing the prospectus and summary prospectus contain this and other information about direction shares to obtain a prospectus or summary prospectus please contact direction shares at<PHONE_NUMBER> the prospectus or summary prospectus should be read carefully before investing an investment in the funds is subject to risk including the possible loss of principal the funds are designed to be utilized only by sophisticated investors such as traders and active investors distributor four-side fund services LLC don't forget you can listen to tfnn live on your mobile device 24 hours per day go to tfnn.com then hit watch tiger tv that's tfnn.com then hit watch tiger tv for the latest to market information on netflix 17.7 million shares on the 22nd of july tested that with this 8.6 8.7 million shares yesterday so actually not as bad as i thought maybe that changes this fall i think you'd probably get back up in our 340 345 and that would be i don't think you could short the stock here but you got up 345 350 with light volume that's where you might want to take the next look at it again i don't think i'd want to be netflix seems to be a little bit odd man out with new streaming competition and of course lost subscribers already but i think that's got to do with many other factors utx united technologies nice reversal out here today almost railroad tracks if this continues on either call call the tweezer bottom or railroad track bottom you need a little bit higher clothes out on utx but doesn't look that bad got a question to look at bowing um they've finally gotten back down to the 330 area what 326 96 was yesterday's low volume was not all that exciting it wouldn't kind of blow out volume that you might think this goes back to a smaller gap on the 8th of january of this year so you've got a fairly decent time frame you've got four gaps down below all the way to 282 at this point the question is whether or not they can get the planes back in the air and why i understand the problem i'm not exactly sure what it takes to fix it to pass the faa scrutiny uh because it's a little bit of software and a bit of hardware and maybe even retrofitting some of the planes with new angle of attack indicators but maybe this is the end outsourcing software uh to uh far east uh asia software uh manufacturers instead of doing it here in the united states uh this may be one of the most expensive software blunders uh and hardware blunders because it's not a single issue of just software uh but a bit of hardware too in which one piece of hardware can fail and that ripples into the software it continues to have a fail so there were two failure modes on the same failure uh and i think that tells you everything you need to know but um there's people on youtube that have been tearing apart some of the older angle of attack indicators and they're not that sophisticated but of course to this point they were kind of like an auxiliary uh indicator for pilots most didn't spend that much time looking at them because they're very hard to read now that they're used as an integral part of the software to fly the plane uh maybe a variety of reasons this all ended being the fail well okay what else do we have oh wanted to look at uh to to a handful of other stocks we looked at bowing um you brought up ibm uh no surprise this thing isn't bouncing it does have fairly decent good support at this 140 dollar range still no word about their quantum computer effort that would be the product that is going to save them uh what they're doing now and uh their acquisition of red hat uh might let them go sideways for a while i just don't see the massive amount of business flowing to ibm because of red hat it's probably a decent buy um for them and certainly a good buyout for red hat uh but uh what can you say let's go back here and look at a few other ones kind of question coming in about the smh's um we certainly you know got right back to the gap up that goes to june 26 that had 7.3 million shares you did get into it with about 9 million shares you got a nice pop and a little bit higher today i suspect that that is going to continue uh if you were looking to be bearish i would certainly now wait let's look at uh retracement here 11548 is 50 percent retracement on the smh's i think we could easily get to that 11548 maybe even up to the 1739 and still remain bearish in the smh's i am not particularly bearish but if you are thinking about pulling the trigger i think we've seen the uh train that leave the station on that and now you're looking for a rather large bounce to reshort if you're feeling that way uh if we get into september i suspect there are a few things especially uh around memory that are going to continue to do well throughout the fall trade deal or not i think people are going to go on a couple of weeks maybe a month not much is going to actually change and uh people are going to do it question about what we talked about yesterday in the y in n uh and if there's anything else out here i mean you're up a little bit um there's too many there are a lot of voices out here saying that there is a systemic risk in the chinese market um i have no way to tell i'm not sure anybody else does either that's a black box of probably bad loans and uh in ron like deals in all of china and the only question is when does it blow up uh but i think as an outsider we have a hard problem seeing in but of course uh they continue to have egg on their face from the hong kong issues so don't see much changing there uh ibb another question coming in on that one it's up a buck um you didn't really i mean you got back to the gap up on june fourth had two and a half million shares got into a 2.9 million shares yesterday you're up on 1.6 million shares i still suspect that when this uh turns uh this may be the biggest uh trade for a sector in a long term but it may take all the way through the elections before that resolves itself so you may have another year sitting on the sidelines um what else do we have i had one that i was looking at fairly hard yesterday it did not pan out i didn't buy it either uh and that was docu i like the company a little more problematic about that only nice thing today is they're down on lighter volume uh but you are on a pullback basis from the thirty five dollar and six cent low on november 20th of 2018 up to the march 15th high in 2019 uh year back down to the that six one um yeah the six one eight at 44 44 so kind of close anyway we'll be back in a i'm certain you are or strive to be one of the best of the best at everything you do in life it's the most common trait that we tigers and tigers share if you're looking to become the best of the best when it comes to managing your money let me teach you to do what most wealth managers tell you can't be done which is how to time the markets i'm steve rhodes author of mastering probability and for the last 12 months timer digest has been tracking my newsletter signals which have earned me the ranking as their number one market timer in the nation for the s and p 500 for the last 12 six and three months timer digest also ranks me as the number one market timer for gold as well the fact is markets can be timed and i'll teach you the exact set of tools that i use that is transforming into one of the best at what i do sign up for mastering probability today by clicking on the newsletter tab on the homepage of tfnn.com and get immediate access to workshops where i take you step by step how to use an extraordinary set of tools as well as provide great market calls to sign up today david whites newsletter the technology insider is focused like a laser on finding the next big things in technology if you invested only ten thousand dollars in microsoft in 1986 you'd have been a millionaire by 2000 disruptive 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prices under most circumstances virtually always had a certain number of legs to the upside before declining sharply later basil found that computer software which included the standard market technical indicators enhanced the degree of accuracy and calling price turns as well as market trend calls thus was born the Chapman wave sequence using the Chapman wave methodology along with other indicators basil Chapman advises his subscribers of his expert market opinion each market day with his opening call newsletter right now you can get a two-week free trial to the opening call basil's daily trading newsletter by visiting the front page of tfnn.com cancel at any time during that trial and pay absolutely nothing get your two-week free trial to Basil's newsletter the opening call today by visiting tfnn.com catch Tom O'Brien professional trader and educator founder of tfnn also a special guest on CNBC Tom will bisect and dissect the markets the Tom O'Brien show next on tfnn and yes Tom O'Brien is back today and he'll be here for the three to five hour course for those earnings check in at four o'clock and find out what Disney and the rest that we talked about at the beginning of the show are doing after hours what else is happening here well we're up 30 what's called 32 points on the s&p cash volume me a 5.3 billion shares which is pretty good nothing compared to the slaughter on the way back down I just don't see a great deal out here that tells me to run for cover I do have a couple of long positions but other than that looking to pick things up on the cheap on any pullback I've got one other that I got my eye on before the end of the day so we'll take a look at that but I think you can be prudent and cautious and patient in buying this pullback we're probably going to see a little bit of downside tomorrow that's for going delta neutral into options for the expiration on the 16th by the end of the day though I suspect we're probably back up and without yet another huge headline news probably can drift up and maybe up all the way into that August 16th expiration but it seems like maybe we've kind of and just had a little bit too much too fast and burnt out a lot of the preparedness at least in the short term we'll see how the next week goes but in the short term I'm kind of bullish anything else happening out here I think that's it we looked at the dollar everything else kind of quiet probably will be until that next big headline in the meantime sell when you can not when you have to and we'll see you here tomorrow same bat channel same bat time


Okay. Good afternoon and welcome to Vermont house committee. It is Tuesday, April 13. We are now going to turn to S3. Thank you Eric for that. Yeah, sure. Just to for committee's interest that also the Senate judiciary committee this morning. It looks like they're going to concur and H. I think I have been. I was about to say H 199. I don't think that's what it is. Maybe it was one. The bill regarding powers of attorney and they're used during emergencies and conveyances that you folks passed out several weeks ago. Right, right. I don't think there's any changes to that. So I think they're. Talked about that quite a bit with them this morning and it looks like they're going to move ahead with it as, as past the house. Oh, great. Thank you. Yeah, that's, that's an important bill. Great. Okay. Thank you. So, okay, great. So now we're going to switch to S3. And we're going to turn to S3. And leading to competency to stand trial and insanity as a defense. And so you may remember, we're slowly getting through all our witnesses. And so, Robinson of the network is here to, to join us and share her testimony with us. So good afternoon. Welcome. Good afternoon. Sorry, I had a little zoom issue there. Thank you so much for having me for the record, Sarah Robinson deputy director at the Vermont network against domestic and sexual violence. Thank you so much for the continued testimony that you've been taking on S3. And I'm here today, I'll be fairly brief just to weigh in on the importance of the victim notifications sections and talk a little bit about that. So largely, you know, we do believe that there's an important role for the criminal justice commission where there's been criminal justice involvement and someone is committed to the care and custody of the commissioner of mental health. And in these cases, the bill that you've been considering does seek to address some significant gaps between the criminal legal system, the mental health system and victims of crime that have existed for some time. So I'm going to speak to section three of the bill. I'm going to talk about the importance of victims and speaking to subsections A and B of that section. And just to say that first, the is the importance of victims having some level of notification when there is a change in treatment setting, especially a discharge. And in our small communities here in Vermont, it's important that victims have this information through trusted information. This allows people to consider what might be needed for their own safety, all kinds of safety. And most importantly, not to be surprised to find out that the person who caused them harm has had a change in their freedom of movement or location. And there have been a few instances where victims have reported hearing from other community members or even seeing individuals have had no notice that that was a possibility. So we're supportive of that. Second is this seems like a small issue, but I think it is significant to victims. And that is the issue of absconding. And we work to add this language in the Senate. And I just wanted to lift up and reference a letter that has been posted to your committee webpage several weeks ago from Deborah Brookfield. And in the case of this victim, the person left their treatment setting. And the only way that the victim found out is because their advocate happened to see a missing person's poster on the evening news. And Ms. Brookfield is not the only individual who has experienced this. And we feel like this is an important change in procedure. And we would be fined with changing the language of the victim's name. And we have a couple of other questions to elope, which was a suggestion that was made by Jack McCullough from Vermont legal aid. And I think the reference he gave was 18 VSA. Seven one zero one. And that change. Would be fine with us. And in regards to subsection C in section three, which I know the committee has had a lot of discussion about. And I think it's a good question. And I think it's a good question. And I think it's a good question to the concerns raised by both disability rights and mad freedom. And I would just like to note two things here. First. Information on treatment status. Is often fluid and constantly changing. And second. After such a notification. Frankly, there, there's really no recourse for victims in those cases. And I think that would also be unhelpful. And contribute to a sense of danger for victims. That's not reflective of an actual level of risk. So we're glad to know that stakeholders are considering what can be done to the language of that section, either striking the language or putting this in the realm of the forensic working group. To address those concerns regarding orders of non-hospitalization. And we're certainly happy to assist in those efforts to the extent that our input could be useful. So we're grateful for your work on this bill. And I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sarah. Not seeing any hands, but I'll just give folks. A moment. Tom. Thank you. How are you doing, Sarah? I don't know if this is a question for you or not. It might be for, is Eric still here? Yeah, I'm still here. There he is. Um, is there any HIPAA? Um, uh, issues as far as. Letting victims know. When, you know, when someone that, when there's treatment involved, I mean that, that's healthcare. I can, well, I can just say, I think that, um, my understanding is that there has been some concerns about that section C. Um, and around the intersection that those types of notifications around treatment status might have, um, as it relates to HIPAA and other privacy concerns. And so that's the section that I was noting. Um, we very much hear those concerns. And, uh, would are glad that their stakeholders looking at that or that that section is going to have a closer look. But I'll defer to Eric on. The rest. Um, well, I would say that I have heard those concerns as well. Um, I don't share them in terms of the. The HIPAA concern. I, I think you've probably, the committee's probably heard that I don't necessarily have the same legal analysis of the HIPAA issue as. Um, as either Dale. I'm sorry, or DMH or, um, some of the other advocates you've heard from. So I think there's a legal basis for, for the information to be disclosed for the victims to get it. Um, not to say that it wouldn't be litigated. It probably would be, but I think that. The same exception to HIPAA that applies to the two sections that you're keeping in at least. At least of which there has been less, less controversy about moving out this, that same HIPAA exception, the mandated by law exception. I think applies just as much to. Uh, the ONH provision as it does apply to. The previous provision, the two other provisions about requiring. Um, uh, the department to let states attorneys and the attorney general know when somebody's treatment status to change. So that again, that that's not the policy question. That's for you guys to think about. That doesn't mean it's the policy you want. You can choose whatever policy you prefer. But I, my view, and I think our, our office's view is that you have solid, solid ground on which to rest your decision. If you decide you want the information to be disclosed, there's a basis for, for reaching that conclusion. And the only. Single case that I found that talks about this. Sides in favor of disclosing it. And, um, So that's my conclusion. So, so with, with, uh, again, with the HIPAA stuff, Eric. If, if somebody. I don't know if the right term is voluntary. If somebody voluntarily leaves treatment, I guess, or, or, or leaves their treatment ahead of time. Um, it would that. Not be so much a HIPAA. Um, concern as a, as a change in treatment would be. To me, if somebody is going to, you know, it's going to bail on their treatment, I guess to me that. They've, uh, they've.  Uh, they've given up their HIPAA rights from there. It would seem, but maybe not. I'm not sure what kind of an impact that would have on the HIPAA issue. I think the. The sort of basis for. For the disclosure of information. Uh, that would otherwise be protected health information, PHI under HIPAA. Is that the disclosure is required by law. So I don't, I'm not sure that it matters whether the person leaves voluntarily or not. If they're, if their health information qualifies as protected health information, then it can't be disclosed unless it meets one of the exceptions under HIPAA. And as it happens, the exception that we're viewing as permitting it in this case. Is the fact that the disclosure is required by law. Right. And my, my thought was more around, you know, letting, letting victims know, especially if somebody did. Um, Um, prematurely leave treatment. Right. Thank you. Yeah, sure. Go ahead, Kate. Thanks. Um, hi. I don't know if you came prepared to talk about this section, but I was just curious since you're here, one of the areas in the bill talks about a forensic work group. And I don't know if you've taken a peek at that at all. Um, and it doesn't, it looks like the language creates some, some space in terms of ultimately deciding who comprises that group, but it has list out a number of people or entities that would be included. And I guess I'm just curious if you had any thoughts or reaction or if the network did in response to the, the makeup of that group or the charge. While we're at it. Um, sure. So we were definitely supportive of, uh, the inclusion of the two victims of crime appointed by the Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services. I think that's going to be a really important perspective to have on the, on the work group. Um, and otherwise, um, I don't necessarily have any other, other comment on the work group itself. Other than just to note that it's. Um, obviously an extremely complex system of care and that it makes good sense to have a working group looking at the broader issues related to this population. Thanks. We do have written testimony from Chris, from Chris Beno about, um, putting in some language regarding victims in the charge of the working group, um, which we'll refer to when we start doing that. Um, I don't know if that might answer your question as well. Okay. Um, okay. Seeing any other hands, anything, anything else, Sarah, before we let you go. Oh, that's it. Thank you very much. Okay. Great. Thank you. Okay. So let's see. We have a, our break schedule to leave it to 30. Just to make sure I got that right. Yeah. Okay. So what I'd like to do before our break and since we, we have Eric is to go through. S3 and I'm going to identify places that. Um, where I've heard consensus. In terms of our testimony as well as places that, um, there may not be consensus. Um, and half folks, let me know if I missed anything. Um, I don't know. I think this would be the, you know, to, to start to put together a, um, a committee amendment. Um, I will say that representative and Donahue. Um, has put something, um, something similar to this in a, um, in an amendment. Um, not. It's not, um, it's, it's from, it'd be, you know, it's her thoughts not representing the committee on, on, uh, on healthcare. Um, I don't know what to do. So if we could just take three minutes to do this and Eric, I know you have an ongoing list as, as well. And I'm going to just go page by page really. Um, so in terms of on the first page where it talks about copies of the report. They're being sent to, um, I know there was, um, Testimony adding Dale. Um, but I'm not going to put them on the. Okay. Also adding the respondent. We heard that from. Uh, from Welder white. I, um, reached out to, um, Uh, AJ Rubin and, um,戰, McCullough about whether or not to add the respondent. And they were okay with that. on whether or not what happens when the respondent is not represented by council by an attorney, whether or not the respondent gets the report. So I would suggest again just for starters to add respondent to that section on who gets the copy of the report. Okay, am I forgetting anybody in there? Anybody? Okay, great. The next page, the new language in two talks about the two different opinions and the timing of them in that. That needs, I think we only had one witness, the medical society that thought that that language was clear. So I know Eric is going to be working on that. We also heard from Department of Mental Health that I believe Wyoming has had some language regarding that and that also that could be something put into the forensic working group. So any other thoughts or comments on that? Does that sound consistent with what we've heard? Martin. So I've also talked to Eric about trying to put in some language that addresses the issue of spoilation of evidence or preserving evidence and who would be responsible for that. So there will be a proposal just for us to look at that I've asked Eric to work on. Okay, great. Great. Thank you. Okay, and then let's see, the next on page three in B, this is having council, having remote legal aid represent, provide council and we heard testimony we heard was pretty much unanimous in support of that. Martin. I did have a question on that on that language as far as whether it can be clarified a little further even. The fact is that it cites to subdivision A2 of the section and then it describes subdivision A3 and A4. Shouldn't it just say, you know, stand trial pursuant to subdivisions A2 to A4 of the section? It's just a drafting question, Eric. It's not, you know, changing the meaning of it. Does that make sense when I'm asking that? It's just one of the things that just spells says look at A2 and the other two it actually has the language of A3 and A4. Yeah. Do you see what I mean, Eric? I do, yeah. It's not a consistency among those three. Right. So yeah, it might make sense to strike the cross-reference specifically since you don't have it in the other two places. Yeah, well, yeah, then right, right, just expel out what A2 is if you're going to spell out or have them all say A2, A3, and A4, whatever. Just not parallel. That's all. Great. Sounds good. I have that one. Okay. And then the next area is on page six. Madam Chair? Yeah. Why is the word entitled to have council appointed? Why is the state or taxpayer's paying for that? Why isn't, why is that written like that?  Well, they have, they have a constitutional right to council already because they're going to be confined against, potentially against their will. The only distinction is that this is shifting the person who represents them from the Defender General's Office to Vermont Legal Aid because of an expertise issue because they're not criminal proceedings anymore. And the reason that uses the word entitled is because previously, actually last year even it had said, shall be represented by Vermont Legal Aid, but they wanted to preserve the person's ability to have their own private attorney if they wanted to. So they could have their private attorney pay for it themselves or have Vermont Legal Aid do the representation, which they have a right to have the state council if they want to because of the nature of the proceeding. But it's not saying they can have their own lawyer, does it? No, but that's the reason the word entitled is used. They're entitled to have council, but they don't have to. But would an average person, such as I'm questioning it right now, they even begin to know they could have their own lawyer if it's not stated? Wouldn't it be you can have your own representation or you're entitled? I think that's a question for you, the how you read it. I read it as a permissive thing, but that's up to you folks. Yeah, thank you. And Eric, actually that history that it had been shall announced and titled is helpful. And I'm looking at my notes. We did hear from Judge Greerson that the judiciary does support this. And as Eric said, Legal Aid really does have that expertise in these cases. You think somebody that is involved in this would automatically go through legal aid, they wouldn't have their own lawyer? I'm really confused here. Most people do, from what I understand. Most people have Legal Aid do the representation, they don't have private counsel do it. That's interesting. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Great. Okay, thank you. And then, so then we come to page six and there's that section C that we've heard a lot of testimony on. You know, originally, there are some folks that wanted in there and then, but the Attorney General's office and others realized that there were problems. And so there has been consensus to take that section out and make that part of the charge of the forensic working group. Maxine, can you just say which section you just want? Sure. It's C, so I'm looking at page six. Yeah. I just wasn't sure because there's also the absconding language issue, right? Did I miss the eloping, changing that? I think it's at the top of page six, unless there's a different instance. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'm working off of, I have actually two copies of the bill. One is past the Senate and one, uh, yeah, thank you. That's right. So in, right, in three, change abscends to elopes. So Maxine, backing up, there's two other things that, okay, great. So back on subsection B that we're just talking about adding, and this is something that Ann Donahue flagged for us, adding, and if applicable, the Department of Disabilities, Aging and Independent Living. I know that Eric already has that language, since we're adding them upfront. And there's a second place to add, Dale, and that is in subsection two A on page five, I believe it is. Since we're adding them as far as they are being added in this. Right. Okay. Great. Thank you. Did, I think I was going to throw, just toss out there on that night. Is the presumption then that you want to add all the Dale references from Representative Donahue's proposal? Yeah. Yeah. So is, have they been involved? I'm just making sure that someone from Dale assigned up on that or? Let me double check. Yeah, let me double check. Right. Okay. And I'll double check with Representative Donahue as well. Okay. Thank you. The next change that I, we're going to need some committee discussion about is on page seven, where we have Jay, which is the Attorney General has, they have one position in the Defender General's office has, has another one. And so I want to bookmark that as someplace where we'll meet, you know, some, definitely some committee discussion on, because there has not been consensus on this from our, from witness testimony. Martin. Yeah. Sorry. I need to back up one more time. This was another suggestion that came out during testimony from Ann Donahue on page six in subsection Roman numeral two, the after the victim of the offense, she has suggested adding for which the person has been charged. That's a suggestion from her. I particularly, I don't think that's needed because this is talking about the victim of the offense. It's not talking about the victim of the offender, but yeah, I don't think it's actually necessary, but if it makes it clear for people, I just wanted to flag that as something that Ann Donahue had brought up. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Why don't we Eric, if you can note that, and then we can think more about that. Okay. Okay. And then so section five, I know that house corrections institution as well as health healthcare will be looking at this assessment piece. And but we did hear about time frames. I was pretty consistent that that November first time frame is really not workable. So I think we heard six months a year, I'd say probably a year, we can just put that in there and for starters and then discuss it. And then the forensic care working group that is also being considered by the health care committee as well as institutions, we, we did hear concerns that is the charges to prescriptive. Again, the timeframe, I think there's consensus on the timeframe cut out for a year, maybe the in terms of who was on it. We heard from Will de White person with lived experience plus person with experience in the, in the issue. Okay. Go, go, go. And let's see. Also under one on page nine, that's where Chris Venna talked about putting language after educated not guilty by reason of insanity, putting language, something like impossible expansion of victims rights. And I know there's concern that that this language may seem like it's assuming that we actually do need a forensic facility as opposed to determining if we do. So possibly some reboarding of that we might, might consider. I know the medical society would like a member of representation on here. So certainly talking and also mentioned of competency restoration programs, looking at those. And then like I said, the, the time. So, so we can, we can talk about those and we can share those with them with health care as they come to their recommendations. But certainly that's clearly those two sections or clearly sections that are, are in other community jurisdictions as well. Barbara. So I thought that there was restoration of sanity as well as competency and making sure, I mean, I realize it's not in our section, but just that that philosophy and the, the services that are lacking to restore people's either insanity or ability to stand trial. I guess it's sort of the same, but, and it seemed like a few people called out in the prescriptive sense that why are we mentioning Connecticut? And so perhaps it's saying looking at other states, but not directing people to Connecticut. Right. Right. Thank you. Yeah. So that's, that's a good point. Yes. Thank you. Kate. Yeah. I guess just to make a distinction in terms of Barbara, but you were just saying just because of the bill that we're talking about, like when they're talking about sanity in the context of the bill, we're talking about it in terms of assessing mental health state at the point of the actual act. So you wouldn't be, you wouldn't restore sanity in, in terms of like sanity defense. I just want to name that since these things get like confusing. I don't know. I mean, are you, at this moment in time, are we just sort of like flagging areas? Like there were a couple of things that I wanted to name, but I think maybe we'll be circling back around to all those areas so we can, I can save it for another time. Okay. Great. Thank you. Bob. Yeah. Just a quick question. I've got a couple of different one of these goings. I'm not sure which one we're on to follow here, but I know Chris Fennell, if I'm pronouncing that right, also brought up a question about notification for, has that been addressed in the amendments? So her, yeah, she, her written testimony, proposed putting language, I believe on page nine, which I mentioned. So I'll go back and double check, but, but yes. Thank you. Did Chris have an earlier suggestion though that we're, that we decided she replaced she, she rethought that earlier suggestion and then replace that suggestion and testimony with, with written testimony, subsequent written testimony. Yeah. And Bob, I think you had other questions or feedback. No. Oh, thank you. Okay. Great. And Barbara, I'm going to assume your hand is up from before. Great. Okay. All right. Well, great. Well, this is good. It just will give us something to, to look at and, and work from as we move forward and, and as we wait to hear from the other committees. So, and Eric, I'll touch base with you about, about Dale and reaching out to them. So. Yeah. When you say just about, you say something to work from, right? So do you want me to sort of integrate some of these comments now for purposes of, you know, having it in hand, or do you want to wait for a future markup date or what's your, what are your thoughts? I think it'd be good to take what represented Donahue and add, and then add these as a, into an amendment to, to look at. Yeah. The only, the only part that I didn't follow was you, you went through the working care group things more quickly than I could jot them down. I couldn't really tell whether they were just thoughts for discussion or whether some of them were like, amend the working group itself. So other than that, I think I got a handle on everything. Yeah. I think the working group, it may actually be more of a list right now until we see what healthcare is, you know, what healthcare and corrections are doing and just sort of a, a list of the points to, to be in contact with them. Sure. Okay. That sounds good. Yeah. Okay. Great. So thank you. Thank you, Eric. Thank you, everybody. So let's take a 15 minute break and then we do have some witnesses.