and welcome to Slaida everybody and welcome to my desk. It's me, Lady Aida, and it's hacker o'clock, eight o'clock, about 8.30 on a Sunday night. I've been working a lot actually this week because the weather got a little colder. So a little bit more indoors, working on some new designs and revisions. And I thought I would just get right into it and show you some of the board designs that I've been up to this week. What are we doing? Where are we going? It's got a computer, sorry. So first up, you know, chip storage is not over. You know, nothing ever ends. But there are more parts available. Oh, you know, dude, I forgot to set this back to 720. Hold on. Oh yeah? Yeah, one second. Okay. I was like wondering like, why is there so much space on my desktop? Okay. Usually we don't see the text a little better now. Right. So some chips that are back in stock, not everything. So don't worry, the great search is continuing to find replacements for all the parts that have been end of life or discontinued or still unavailable. But there are some parts that are available. So the SI 5351 clock generator, people really like this chip. It's really fun because you, over I squared C you can tell it to generate, I think like up to 160 megahertz signal.  You can use their calculator to generate basically any frequency from eight kilohertz to 160 megahertz, which is great for reference clocks. So, oh my goodness. There's so many boards, so long. This is the TPS. This is the, I gotta find it so I wanted to show you guys a bunch of things. Okay, so this is the design. Let me turn on the T-document layer so you can see what's going on here. So I decided to take QTFI this design. I'm still gonna sell the three SMA version, but I thought I'd make like a small version. A lot of people only need like one signal or they're popping this into a dev board and maybe they don't need something as big as, you know, like I kinda wanted to find some alternative to just having one gigantic board with three SMA connectors. So this is a QT and it's got the level shifting. I just picked a smaller crystal, so it all fits. Same chip, level shifting. And then what I did is this kind of like funky design where there is this edge launch SMA, but they have point one in spacing. So what I ended up doing is having like signal, ground, signal, ground, signal, and then only the signal number one, the middle one is SMA edge launch. Cause again, there's no mechanical space to have more than one edge launch RF connector, but I think that's okay. Cause I think again, a lot of people need one signal and if you need all three, you pop in a breadboard and then of course you get interspersed ground, which is even better. So this is a prototype.  Okay, so then next up, let's go in order. We made the Metro Mini V2 a couple of weeks ago, a couple of months ago, and it's in the store. Folks who remember, it's got the Mega 328P and then there's a STEMI QT connector and the STEMI QT connector is five volt power and logic. And eight of its STEMI QT boards are three or five volt compatible, even on that SI 5351 you just saw, there's always a regulator and there's always a level shifter. And it's like, it's just kind of my thing. I really, I don't like breakup unless there's some really good reason I like my breakup boards to be level shifted and power protected because there's still a lot of people using Arduino UNOS, there's a lot of beginners who they accidentally put nine volts into the power supply or whatever, having a regulator and level shifter just protects you a little bit. Just like it would be such a bummer to destroy a $15 OLED because you accidentally put five volts into three volt line and I've absolutely seen that happen. So all of our breakup boards have level shifters but if you're using like quick boards or some other breakout boards that have that JSTSH connector, they may not have level shifting. They may be three volts only. So I made a little board that just all it does is have the five volt regulator and level shifter and there's no chip. So it's like normally there'd be a chip or sensor here and it's just split in half where it's like five volts in, three volts out. So it's gonna be like really inexpensive. It's gonna be a couple of dollars but if you want to breadboard with STEMI QT connectors and have level shifting, this does everything for you. It's kind of like breadboard adapter slash level shifter slash floor polish slash dessert topping. So very simple little breakout board but I thought would be very handy and you can see that nice silk screen because we now of course have the penguin script that we run on boards to make them very pretty before we get prototypes made. Next up, another QT vacation. I haven't run penguin on this one. The ADT 7410, this is a very nice precision temperature sensor from analog devices. This was one that we did as a partnership with DigiKey and ADI but it's a very nice chip. It's like literally the last sensor we made before we started making everything STEMI QT-ified. It was just like, you can see, it's got like that same like shape and size but it didn't quite make it to have the JSTSH connector. So we're gonna revise this one as well because this chip is in stock. So when we sell through, we'll stock the STEMI QT version just trying to get everything into the same format, same pin order, same connectors just for, you know, cross compatibility, no soldering support. So that's the, you know, this is the ADT. So the only thing I had to drop is the address pins are now jumpers on the back. You know, that's the trade-off when you go with STEMI QTs. I really like to have those four mounting holes. I just think it makes it much more useful for people because you can like turn it into a wearable by sewing the four corners or if you want to attach it into a case you have many, many options for where to attach to. But, you know, I had to drop the address pins but usually you don't use the address pins. Usually they're on the back and you solder them closed on the off chance that you need to change the address. So that's the ADT, temperature sensor. Next, I'm gonna go out of order. So the pi cowbells, or Picobells, these, I got a little distracted for a bit. I know we designed these a few months ago and I was like, no, I'm totally gonna do these. And then like, I ended up just getting totally distracted with a whole bunch of revisions and new products and stuff. So as a reminder, we can go to the overhead. I can show the previous version because I did get the prototypes in. I wanted to start with making, you know, boards for whether you have Pico. So I always start with a prototyping shield because it's kind of like the, you know, it's what I use then to design the rest of whatever I design. So with this, it just breaks out all the pins. You can barely see the text, but there's, you know, there's label text. There's these white stripes on the ground pads. So you know, cause like the ground pads are how you count the pins. And then we also soldered a little, you know, this, I put this one together and I put it with stacking headers. And then there's a right angle reset button because I figured that would be kind of nice to have at the end. But then as I was working on it, you know, working, I was like, oh, you know, I really want to, especially when the Pico W came out, I think a lot of people want to add sensors very easily. And, you know, if you're gonna have this prototyping shield thing, it would be really cool if it also had a stomach UT connector, but there's not a lot of space on this. So what I ended up doing, you can go to the overhead. First up, I changed the, sorry, the computer. At first off, I changed the through-hole to a surface mount right angle switch, which meant me, you know, I had a little bit more space for text here. And then I wanted to have a stomach UT. Now I couldn't have this and the button on the same side. There's just like literally, you can't fit them next to each other without dropping some of those pads. And I don't want to drop the breakout pads on the most useful part. So the stomach UT actually comes out the same side as the USB connector, which I think, I think it's okay. You know, it's a trade-off.  On the other end, you have the button. It's, I think it would be tougher if the button was like, if I swapped orientation, because in the button, you'd have to reach under the USB cable. So this is a stomach UT connector and it's connected to ground in three volts because that's the logic level in power supply. And then, let me find the thing. So in the Pico core for Arduino, they do have a default setting for what the wire port is. And it's on GPIO four and five. And so I actually just, I kind of just like said, okay, fine, you know, I'll just connect these automatically to four and five. So you see down here, GPIO four and five are pre-connected. I didn't add pull-up resistors because again, all of our stomach UT boards and all the quick boards as well have pull-ups. So also I just didn't wanna add, I think it's kind of like, this is, you know, people really complain they're gonna add pull-ups later. But I think for most people, they're using breakout boards with, you know, pull-up. You know, the pull-ups are built in and they'll pull it up to 3.3 volts. And so I think that's, I think that's fine. So this is the stomach UT port on this side and then, you know, those fuchsial. So it's gonna be a very easy breakout to make. And then, you know, we've got a little grid of pads here. You know, you can add other sensors or breakouts or, you know, you can't really fit a dip chip but you can fit one anyways because it's such a small amount of space in there. But maybe like resistors, capacitors, maybe like, you know, 0.1-inch header.  And then I'll get to the others. I just was like, I couldn't quite get into this big project. All right, and then, oh, we're getting close to done. Okay, so then, this is a, you know, solderless stem breakout board. You know, I have a couple of these for some things like relays, like, it's like, whenever there's a couple of things that people want to use together and I've noticed that it's, they wanna use it solderless, I'll make something with one of these JSTPH connectors, like a big chunky connector. For example, let's see, I think I have like a stem up relay board. So like this board, for example, you know, it's just a JSTPH and then a little bit of circuitry for say like running a relay. And I saw someone in the forums having an issue where they're like, well, I really want a very powerful infrared transmitter.   There's just a couple of things that you need to do. And so I thought, oh, maybe I'll make a little breakout. Could also be useful for accessibility projects where it's like, okay, I wanna make an IR blaster. And so this has, you know, power ground and signal. You can use three or five volts. It goes into this end channel FETS, which has a natural pull down.  And then when you send the signal, it'll turn on and pulse these LEDs. And I saw some LEDs that are like very, they're basically as powerful as the through hole ones, but their surface mount, one points up. So this is the vertical one. And this is the right angle one.   And I was like, well, let's have one of each. Who cares? They're like, you know, 10, 15 cents each. Each has its own resistor and it's just powered by this transistor. So very simple. And then a little LED to let you know when the signal, because infrared is not human visible. This would have a little red indicator to let you know, okay, there was signal received. So this is a simple little breakout just to solve that kind of problem, which I've seen a couple of times. Okay, and then finally, I made a breakout for the TPS61040, but also, you know, maybe a different one. We'll talk about that in a minute. You know, once in a while when you're using OLEDs or LCDs, TFTs, or like some, you know, there's sensors, once in a while you need a bias voltage of like 12 volts. And it's not like you need a lot of current. Maybe you need like 50 milliamps, 100 milliamps, or you need like a little bit of current or a little bit of current at a high voltage to like bias or enable some signal. If you're doing audio, sometimes like, you know, your audio amps, you need a 12 volt power rail. Even if your signal doesn't go up to 12 volts, you still need a lot of headroom. So we want to make a little boost converter breakout for this TPS061040. This chip is a replacement for another boost converter that we really used to use a ton of the FAN5331, but as I was designing a FAN5331 breakout, I realized that it's end of life. And so I had to find a replacement. So the TPS061040 is the one I picked. One of the ones I've picked so far, which leads us into the great search, but maybe there's some questions. No, let's just do it. The great search brought to you by DigikeyNator for Thanks, Digikey. This is the time of the week where ladies use their power of engineering to help you find the things you want to find on digikey.com. What are you looking for this week, Lady Aida? Okay, so this week, chip shortage is not quite ending. It's relaxing a little bit, but there's still a lot of parts that didn't make it to the other side. And one of those is the FAN5331. Now you might be saying, Lady Aida, you covered the FAN5331 a couple of months ago. I remember that you found an alternative for it. No, no, no. My friend, that was the FAN5333, which is the constant current version of this boost converter. I'm not gonna be looking at the constant voltage output version of this boost converter. The boost converter before was what I used for LED backlights on four, seven, 10 inch TFT displays. It's a big LED chains where you want to have a constant current of 20 milliamps through multiple chains of LEDs. The FAN5331 is what I use oftentimes for e-ink and OLED and TFT displays where I need a bias voltage, especially for OLEDs. This is very common. You need to give it a 9, 12, 16 volt bias to activate the OLED, even though it's not like the main power source. You do need 50 milliamps or so, maybe 20 to 50 milliamps available for all sorts of devices. As I just mentioned, sometimes audio circuitry also, you'll need plus 12 volts, even if you're not using a full 12 volts for your audio signal, the rails need to be hired because you need a headroom for your audio amplifiers and they go up to maybe six volts. So again, for biasing, this isn't a power, that's not what I would call a power boost converter, although if you only need 100 milliamps, then it'll do the job as well. So let's go to the computer and let's look at this chip. So the FAN5331, I really, really love this boost converter. 1.6 megahertz frequency, adjustable up to 20 volts that it has a built in one amp peak current switch and it comes in a SOP 23.5. This thing is like, it was a bread and butter, like I could toss into any circuit. It was, you know, all about a buck or less. I think we just, it did the job beautifully perfectly and they never blew up. They were super stable, low shutdown current, low RDS on, lovely, lovely chip.  That's a great question. If you were to find this part on Digikey, you would see is last time buy. Last time buy means they will do one more run and then, you know, if you need a couple of years worth, please put in a couple of years worth that you need to complete your manufacturing until you can change over to another part. I will do a last time buy because I, you know, I like to have some backup for, yeah, sometimes you find an alternative and the alternative isn't quite perfect. You might as well put in that last time buy order. However, I've also learned sometimes last time buy means, no, that's a, we actually are never gonna send it to you. I'm looking at you, STMP 811, who's last time buy lasted two years and then I never actually got the part and then they told me they will never send it to me. So it does happen. Not say it's gonna happen here, but I've learned when I see last time buy, I find alternative immediately. So a couple alternatives suggested, but actually I wanted to, some of these might be okay, but let's use our patented search ability to find something similar-ness. So we want a DC-DC regulator with internal switches and one output. I'm not as picky about the internal, you know, the Min and Max input voltages again, it can be wider, it can be narrower. Basically, as long as it's three to five volts, I'll try to find something with about 20 volts, one amp switch and hopefully high frequency. I do want it in SOT 23.5. I want it ideally to be pin compatible and functionally compatible so I don't have to redesign. Okay. So, and then we're gonna get pricing at 1,000 pieces. So this is fun. This is the, you know, this image is not correct because this is SOT 23.5, but it's good to know. And there's a couple obsolete parts. Here's that fan 5331. So this is, you know, last time buy and then a couple others in that family you can see the fan 5333 is also last time buy. So let's, let's have a look at active and that'll cut it down like half. So only 30 options now. I also want to look for normally stocking only because of some of these are, you know, not, you're not available. I don't mind if it's a marketplace, that's okay. One thing I'll note is a few of these are step down. They're not boost converters like this one. This is a regulator and this is a regulator and they're step down converters, not step up converters. So we do want to note that, you know, you want to make sure you pick both SEPIC style and step up. SEPIC is a single-ended, something, something converter.  Sometimes you can configure, you know, by adding more trends, yeah, more shocky diodes and more inductors, you can kind of reconfigure it. So it's okay for the voltage goes a little bit under or above. That's okay. We'll just select both. The voltage supply max is fine. The voltage supply min, all these are fine. They all cover three to five volts, that's fine. And the voltage outputs are for these are also fine because they just want at least 20 volts. The current output per channel, again, this is confusing because there's output and switch. Usually these are specced by the switch, I will say. So that said, if you look at the switch current, you're not gonna get, you know, there is one that's 2.8 amps and it's like, wow, that's cool. But it's out of stock. It's the LM 3410, currently not in stock. So that's a little sad. Maybe I'll actually say only one will get in stock ones as well. Okay, so back here. So the current output channel. So, you know, basically there's 550 milliamps. That's kind of the max. So if that current output is important to me, the LM 2704F, it's a little bit more expensive. It's $1.25 on tape and reel. But, you know, it does do the job as adjustable up to 20 volts. You know, built-in switches half as much, 550 milliamps. Great for LCD bias supplies, what a coincidence. And then, you know, this is basically your classic circuit, which is the same circuit you'd use for the FAN 5331. And I do check the pinout. The pinout is identical. I can quickly look it up to verify for you. So it's switch, ground, feedback, shutdown, be in. And this is switch, ground, feedback, shutdown, be in. So one, two, three, four, five. It's in the same order and the same circuit. Although the feedback resistors may have to be adjusted, that's not a big deal. But otherwise, this looks, you know, very similar. You have to give it the shocky diode and the inductor and does the rest. So this one's good. However, you know, for a lot of the bias circuits, I don't need necessarily 550 milliamps. I'm glad it's available. And then of course, if I'm willing to spend even more, there is a version that has a built-in 2.8 amp switch. So that's good to know. And it's actually kind of nice. It's also 1.6 megahertz. Again, it's more expensive. The original Fan-Fi 331 was about 75 cents. This is a $1.50, but there is something available, the LM3410, so that's good to know. But for my purposes, I'm actually kind of okay with using, you know, 350 milliamp switch. So again, I only need like 10, maybe 20 milliamps at 12, nine to 12 volts. It's not a huge, again, it's not power converter. It's a bias generator. So I'm actually okay with this one, the LM2703. Right, because again, this comes in a family, the 2304, 2704, and then the 2705, all, you know, you pay more for the bigger switches. But this one does the job. And hey, it's in stock, hard to beat. But this will do the job quite well. Again, 2.2 to seven volts in, up to 21 volts output. Simple boost converter, it'll do the job, and then pin compatible. So I can just drop it in. And for almost all of my OLED biasing needs, this chip will work quite well. And that's a great search. Okay, okay, here's a question. When you have two or more IR LEDs, is there a possibility of timing issues with one being ever so faster than the other? No, LEDs are instant, essentially instantaneous. Okay, let me check the other spot. Do we have a graphic for a dying chip end of life? No, you know.  I don't know if I'm ready to do that one yet. We'll see, ask me next week. Okay, those are the late eight, we'll be doing all of our regular shows throughout the week. Thank you so much everybody for joining us this Sunday night. Thank you everybody, lots of live shows this week.


I hope you guys have already let up on the profile that you know they went already. So I will answer take over the issue to the presentation. No. Okay. Good evening. All young people. It's a pleasure that I am talking to young people. So I feel young. And hope there are a lot of young people watching. I really didn't have a very clear in mind what you are looking for. But let's start. Let's say for myself. How many of you come from villages? Okay. I was born around freedom. No. So long back. Seven years back. So the background is different. I perhaps saw the first bus at 8. It was very exciting. And the driver driving the bus was I thought he is a very special person. I saw the first electricity bulb at 8 stand. And of course a fan. That was in a train. So from that background suddenly my school was only up to 5th standard. So I studied in a hostel in 6th, 7th, 8th. I managed hostel at that age. And then my elder brother got a job in Jodhpur. So he said he took me to Jodhpur. There was a change from a small village to big city. There did be a high secondary NBE. And it's just life is sometimes, you know, changes you without any notice. So when I was in final year, I think exams were about to happen. My head of department, one professor Moorthy, he called me. And he said what are you going to do after B. And in that small city that time Jodhpur, we knew only about Rajasthan Electricity Board. I was an electrical engineer. So I said I'll join RISCB because of a rank holder. So there was not a problem. But he said no.  He gave me the address of ISC and told me to apply. And I did that. So came to ISC. So that was a change just because my teacher intervened in my life. First intervention was my brother asked me to come from my village to Jodhpur. And this was second intervention. And that changed my life. Again, out of the way, all the people were doing ME in either power systems or electronics. But I decided to do in servomechanism.  And I had couple of admissions abroad in US. But then this vacancy came from its low. At that time it was only a thumba. We used to hear about thumba. So practically it happened that we got an interview before my master's, I mean thesis examination. And few days before the thesis examination, master's examination, we had the appointment. So straight away from the, after passing my ME or doing the formality, landed in Trivandrum. At that time, thumba. So practically straight away we walked into the thumba office. And there I was told that I'll have to work on satellite system division. First I thought what is satellite? There's something goes around earth and all that. So exciting, it was not exciting. Rocket was exciting, it takes the whole thing. So it was a sort of disappointment. But then we started telling that no, you have to work on satellite and satellites are important. So what do I do? So the guy said I had taken control systems. So I was told that you will work on attitude control system of the satellites. Now I didn't know what satellite, so I didn't know what is attitude control system. So my boss, Mr. R. Asher, he's no more unfortunately. He called me and he asked me how is earth stabilized? Do you know? I said I also don't know. Then he said how is moon stabilized? I said I don't know. Then he asked me what is spin stabilization? I never studied this word in my ME or MB. So I said I don't know. So after a few more I don't know, I got some courage and asked sir, why don't you explain me? He said I also don't know. He said go to library, read and explain to me. And that's how I started my career. So go to library, started reading, what is spin stabilization? How is earth stabilized? And I can tell you I'm practically an authority on spin stabilization at least in this country. But that is all because of learning we had to do. You have heard about SLV-3. How it came? Why name SLV-3? I just entered here and asked this, you guys know what is gas geek? So you normally have that, has geek. You have a tendency to understand why the name came. So similarly, actually ISRO real start is 1967. Even though ISRO started theoretically in 1963. Professor Sarabhai, he was a basically a X-ray astronomer. An X-ray astronomy needs certain payloads to be put into the space. And they try to be near the magnetic equator. There's some advantage in terms of astronomy. And Thumba is very near to the magnetic equator. So decided to have a rocket launching station. Thumba is basically TULS, Thumba Rocket Launching Station. So they started to have that activity in 1963 in near Trivandrum. But then in 1967 it became a space science and technology center, SSTC. And this is where the activity of the rocket as well as satellite started. I joined in 1970. So I was the seventh engineer to join the satellite system division. As I said, first person to start working on control systems. But then the launch vehicle people, they were actually selecting various ways of developing a launch vehicle.  You want to do some work and you start assembling the pieces and you make drawings and all that. So there are three different versions of the SLV3. Or SLV, let's say three different versions to be put on the drawing. So version three was selected. So that's why it's called SLV3. It's just a version three of the initial concept revolve SLV3 became. And SLV3 was supposed to launch a satellite which was supposed to be 40 kg into a small orbit 400 km circular around the something like 46 degree inclination because that was easier to launch. So that was our aim and the satellites called RS1. So I was supposed to work to start on RS1 satellite and the magnetic stabilization of that. That's where my career started. But then before we could do much work on RS1, the launch vehicle program obviously is much more complex. It was taking time. So we got a very different kind of opportunity. One Russian president in 1972 visited Mrs. Gandhi, she was our Prime Minister. And they offered, Russians offered that they will actually launch a satellite for India and help in building a satellite India. So if offer coming like that was very exciting. So she said, yeah, yeah, we will do that immediately. And in fact it's coincidences that just before that this happened in February, I think something around 12th of February in 1972. And Prof. Sarabhai died on 31st December 1971. He was intervened on that time and he died by sleeping. So at that time, MGK Manan, he was the Chairman of SRO and it was decided that Prof. Satish Dhawan, he will take over, but he was on a sabbatical in Caltech. He was to come in June 1972. So in between, you must have heard MGK Manan. He died recently, just I think about August 1st week. So he was at that time Chairman, so Mrs. Gandhi called him. He immediately called Prof. URO. You know Prof. URO? He also died recently, just August 1st week. He was living very near to you, just I think less than half a kilometer from here. He called and said, yeah, we will do it. How much it will cost? This Madam is asking. He didn't have no time. He said there's three crores. About three crores in 1972 was a big money. It's not today's three crores. You can multiply easily by a factor of 100. So the budget was given over phone and the project was sanctioned immediately. So you are wrong. He was our division head that time in Trivandrum and he was a visionary. He was not only a visionary, he was a builder of the leaders. So in fact, if you really see in the primitive days and he had a vision, he had launched payloads in Pioneer 11 and Pioneer 13, spacecraft of U.S. of NASA as a extra astronomical physicist. He made those payloads along with the of course American friends. He had a role in that. So he had no idea about, but none of us had ever heard about satellite or seen a satellite, except of course you are wrong. So he got this opportunity and he said, yes, we'll do it. But then he decided that if you have to build a large system, create a capability in the country to make satellites, we can't do it in Trivandrum. There was reason I'm not getting into the details. But then we decided that we will make the satellite, but it will move to Bangalore. So in towards September, 1972, we moved to Bangalore. In fact, on 11 September, he actually got a shade, just empty shade, nothing else, just as much as roof to make our satellites, this particular satellite. The satellite was called Indo-Soviet Satellite to start ISSP, Satellite Project. And in that exercise, we had to build to start with from scratch, right? From building, building clean room, building thermo chamber, building various facilities, building electronics lab and all that was to start. But and the team itself, we have a small, we came from the like about, I think, 15, 20 people from Trivandrum and then there was another small team working with him in PRL projects and the like. So it was something like 25 or so, 30 people. Suddenly we expanded to about 150 people. It just spanned off from the like three, four months. So from 30 to around 150 people and we started working. But then the procedures at that time were not that complicated. We were building infrastructure, we were building satellite, we were building technology, we were building transmitter or receiver or things like that. And we had a tough target. We decided ourselves that we must launch the satellites in two and a half years. And we practically did that. So we can go to first satellite, first light. This was the satellite which actually was called ISSP to start with. Of course ISSP's name changed three times. Ultimately, lastly, it became Indian Scientific Satellite Project. We removed the Soviet component from there because it was our satellite. So this was a satellite we built and we launched on 19th of April in 1975. So this was a practically about two and a half years or less than three years in fact, because we came only 72 and some of the team came only in 73 beginning. So in just two and a half years time, we built a satellite. Not a very sophisticated thing. It's a very simple satellite when you look at it today's thing. It was around 360 kg. But everything was new. Whether it's a power system for a satellite, whether it's a battery for a satellite or whether it's a... Of course my role was basically developing a spin-up system. Now it's a simple thing. You see top? Top while spinning, it doesn't fall. Similarly, all of you ride a bike or bicycle. If you have to balance its static without speed, it's very difficult. Most of us will fall, no? Except some experts like in circus. They will manage but otherwise we will fall. So it is. What is that makes it cycle to remain stable when you are moving? Or a top? Why doesn't fall? So this is where the dynamics comes into picture. So there is a spin dynamics is in the top. And this is how the earth is stabilized. Actually earth is spinning. And because of the rotation which we have one rotation per day is what it makes it stable in that particular configuration. And there are various other motions on that. So this is all part of it. I am not getting to... But we did this in 75. What is unique about it? Why this applied is important. We have to go back to little bit history. What was country doing in 1975? What were we able to do? Yes, it's true. We were making those telephone systems which might have black color, big heavy thing. That was being done. Even though it was imported technology but that was being done. Other than that, maybe something we started in HMT. The basic technology infrastructure in this country was limited to Bangalore doing machines in HMT, doing electronics in Bell and doing ITI. These were the big names. Of course, where is ITI today? You'll probably find in the map in the sense that it's there with buildings but with technology, nothing. But those days was a big technology. But in that, otherwise if you really see, if you go to the consumer market, perhaps even the pin was imported. There was nothing Indian. And there was no expectation from the country, from the scientists, from the engineers. So in that sense, Sarabhai had a vision of his own. On one side, even though he died in 1971, but his vision was to really develop the atomic energy and not only atomic energy, to develop even the weapon, atomic weapon. So on one side he was focusing on atomic weapon, atomic power. On the other side he was focusing on the capability to build a lunch-making and satellite. And actually his vision was, he wanted to have both of these happen by about 1973-1974. It did not happen by the time, but you know, Pokerun happened. Pokerun happened once. Remember this date? Pokerun 1-1974. So it happened. We had the first explosion. It showed through the world. This was part of Sarabhai's vision. So having a capability that we can build a satellite of our own, in this country, was a big confidence builder. So when I look at what this satellite did to the country, it gave a confidence to the engineering society, engineering community that yes, we can build something which is sophisticated, we can build something which is state of the art. So it's a confidence building to the country. If you see the fallout of that, suppose you see the forces coming, suppose you see other things are coming, or they are able to get into the LCA or things like that. The basic building block, first building block in the country, was this Arrabat satellite. So it's a confidence builder to the country. Having done that, it was a small failure. The satellite worked almost 10 years. But the power systems for the payload, there were three payloads, scientific payloads, that power systems failed. And because of that, we had a little early, we couldn't get the expected results in the satellite. But then our expirations were growing. So having done Arrabat now, what power do we need to do? When you look at the, what is the spirit of Isru? How Isru started? Yes, we say Sarabhai started. We say Dhavan took over after Sarabhai, and they are great people. But the spirit of Isru is in a statement from Professor Sarabhai in a 1967 meeting in Vienna. And what he said was, he said that some people say that the space is only for the advanced countries. But as far we are concerned, we see space as a tool for development of the country. Unless a society like ours has to do this advanced technology, we cannot build our nation. So he said that space is for men and society. That was his underline. And that statement even today is a Bible for all the people who work on space in India. If you really see the history of the space in the world now, India is the only country where the space has been developed for people, for civil application, rest of the world. US, Euro, China, everywhere else. The space has been developed first for defense and then used for application wherever possible. In our case, we have developed the space for, so our immediate thing was after, what do we do? So we said we will do remote sensing. Now, at that time, I am now again coming back to 1974-75, so we started working on next satellite much before launch of the first satellite itself. So 1974, for example, we said we will do remote sensing and remote sensing, the only reference available to the world at that time was Landsat 1 launch by NASA. If you are in the space, you are looking from the earth, then you see the earth in a very different way. And if you can have a payload which can, like you have a CCD, you know, but now today we are seeing through a CCD thing, everything, if I am being seen to you in this TV, is a basically a CCD sensor. So there was no CCD sensor at that time, but if you are able to scan an image and if you can make use in different spectral bands, Landsat was working basically in four spectral bands. So we can take an image and then we can put the two various applications. So we said, okay, in this satellite, we will put a camera which will take image, camera is just like a normal camera, except that it has a Vidicon camera, it will take image and we will have two bands, one was near IR, another was optical, and making use of this, we will be able to find out things which otherwise are not visible, but at that time the resolution was quite poor. We had a one kilometer, one pixel, like you can imagine today, it looks very childish of course today, but that was the best technology available. So we actually were to do this through a spinning satellite. Now how do we take image from a spinning satellite? If spinning means you assume a top, a top is rotating, and from a rotating top how do you take image? What we did was, we said there is spinning axis, rotation axis, if we tilt it perpendicular to the orbital plane and we put a camera along the belly band, then it will see the earth every time it spins. So if we control the spin rate and put the camera and then when camera looks at earth, at that time if you take a click, this is something like this also has a clicking action exposed for about 2 millisecond, and then we expose 2 millisecond, then it will take the image and we will actually transmit that image slowly. So that was the concept. The concept was developed, imaging was conducted by Dr. George Joseph in Space Applications Center, and of course my job was to really make this spin axis orientation and all that. It came out with a lot of new concept for the first time probably in the world.  No one had done that. So we came with a lot of new ideas, we developed many new technologies, we developed a scanning horizon sensor. How do I see where the local vertical is? So we have to develop a local vertical, understanding from the scanning the earth in the IR image and then find out the corners at the edges and then center that. So all that doing with the devices in the so called SSI, small scale integration. I mean it basically the gates. Some of you understand the, I mean today you are talking of a millions of gates. We were at that time talking of something like tens of gates because we are talking of small scale integration. So with those small integration devices we developed those logics and created that Bhaskara. We developed two of these, of course Bhaskara 1, Bhaskara 2 was identical to each other. But then created a very new kind of a awareness in the country in the scientific community. Just for example, the advantage of satellite we are looking for the top. In Kerala there used to be disease called built disease. Built disease was basically an infection of the coconut trees from the top and it will just turn the whole thing into a yellow and finally the tree dies. Now can we do something before, can we detect it early? Issue is detection. So by satellite images, a large integration because it's not something happening to single tree, it's happening to a large level of trees. So we could detect the built disease through the satellite images in Bhaskara. We could do a lot of studies on aspects of even geology and things like that using this particular satellite. But this was purely an experimental thing. With one kilometer we couldn't have done much. So then we have to go next now. What is the next application? So next application is, what is the next application of satellites? Communication. One is of course remote sensing. There are too many applications. Ultimately it's a communication. So satellite has to be used ultimately for relaying. What is communication? Satellite role is that satellite is there in the sky, it's stationary. What is geostationary? It rotates along with the Earth at the same velocity, same angular velocity. So we find it is stationary with respect to our cells. And that by geometric government only with respect to, it has to be only at 36,000 kilometers. If it goes faster, if it goes higher than that, it goes slower. So geostationary satellite has to be at 36,000 kilometers. But we did not have a launch vehicle yet. Our launch vehicle developed when SLV-3 was taking time. You remember what our launch vehicle was, the SL-3 went down like 79, first one. And this was the year when we had launched this Bhaskara. We were working on Bhaskara. Bhaskara was launched also in 79. But at that time, in 1975, European Space Agency, they said that we are developing this launch vehicle, what's called ARIAN. ARIAN 5 is now very famous. You know all of their ARIAN 5. That time it was ARIAN 1. And they said that on the third development flight, if someone can bring a satellite, we'll launch it free. This was a very tempting, but there was a condition. They had their own satellite, Meteosat. It was weighing about, I think, 800 kg. That our Meteosat will sit on top of your satellite. So you have to carry our satellite, so launch vehicle first will be your satellite on top of that Meteosat. So you have to carry a satellite. Third, this is a strict time frame. If you don't come in time, you can make a very, you can say, just a dummy satellite for you and charge you. You have to pay for that. We said, fine, we'll be accepted. We said, we'll do it, but it's an opportunity for India to really develop a satellite for geostruders orbit. So we decided we called Apple, ARIAN passenger payload experiment, APPLE. Apple stands for ARIAN passenger payload experiment. Now this satellite, we jumped it, we'll do it. But then the difficulty is that we have to really carry another satellite on that. That's why it's a very peculiar structure. And there are a lot of interesting aspects about the Apple. The first one is communication satellites, they were two types. One is called dual spin technology. Other is called three-axis technology. Now, there was a long debate whether we should do a dual-axis or we should do a three-axis. Dual spin was easy to do, but it cannot take large power, large big, big, big payloads. Three-axis is more difficult to do, but then it requires more time. But we said we will do three-axis only because dual-axis is a technology which is only short-lived. It will not take us too far. So we said we will do a technology which will take us far. So we decided on that. And then very hurriedly in fact this is one more thing in this case we had to have a rocket motor inside the satellite because it has to take from the so-called GTO to GU. And at that time we had a SLV-3 under development. So we said the fourth stage of SLV-3 will modify and put inside. So if you see inside there is a SLV-3 rocket sitting which we really SLV-3 fourth stage rocket sitting which was actually embedded. And the whole satellite is built around that. That's why you see the cylinder and all these things which are supposed to be satellite are outside the cylinder. So we made the satellite. Luckily when they were doing their testing second was a failure. And when second was a failure then they had to find out what went wrong and that finding out what went wrong and all that took almost a year and a half. So we got that extra year and a half for our LO-3. And also we were happy we were happy that I mean it's not a good word to say but because LO-2 has failed. So LO-3 is likely to succeed because they have gone through the grill. See always the failure teaches you much more. And it's a accepted fact in any aspect of engineering and much more in space that the failure is only teaches you to success. So if there is a failure next thing likely to succeed. And we were lucky. We launched this in 1981. It was a perfect launch and very good satellite but there was a problem. You know you see these two panels on two sides they generate power and if you don't have a power if they don't open they are supposed to open. If they don't open then we cannot have a power. And if you don't have a power because it opens and then tracks the sun. So it has to open and it has to track. So we call it solar red drive in this case which it tracks. One of these fellow did not deploy. We did a lot of things of course it's about 36,000 km above. But what you can do you can only do some commanding, certain thrusters, firing certain jerks and all that. It didn't deploy. But then what do we do? So we said okay we will go ahead with one panel. But then there was a small trick issue the sun sensor which is actually used for okay let me also engineering background just good. See suppose this is earth and this is light. Now I have to really look ultimately I have to look at the payload has to look at the earth all the time. But this solar area is on site and this has to look at the sun. But when I am starting I have to really first catch sun because sun is very bright. I can see any time. So I have to look at sun first. And then when geometry is right geometry means when sun is 90 degree perpendicular to earth which happens only at 6 a.m. or 6 p.m. So at 6 a.m. if the sun is like this earth will come perpendicular to that and if I rotate along the sun then I will see the earth. So this is the methodology of looking at the earth at that time and capturing earth. And once we capture earth we don't worry about the sun because sun panel can rotate. To have the sun axis one of the sensor was sitting behind and if it does not see sun how do I have the sun acquisition? Well what happens is easy to give up. But what for engineers? Engineers are meant for finding solutions. We have to find. So we can't give up. So we said no we will try we will try from one side also. So we said that let's try. And then early morning you come at 4 o'clock because the geometry comes at 6 o'clock. So if we have 6 sun acquisition at 5.30 local time then 6 o'clock we can get up capture earth and when do the thickest stabilization running moment a bit and all that. First time we tried didn't succeed. Second time by the time we try again succeed. by the time time is over only next day because we can do it only at 6 a.m. So we are all depressed and unfortunately or fortunately is my task. I'm the control system designer. I have to do that. So we said okay we will go more cautiously we didn't have we didn't have gyro school that time we didn't have gyro everything has to be derived from the sun sensors or a magnetometer. So it's tough task. Today is very easy.  We didn't have gyro in those days. So what do we do? So we actually again next day try and again we tried very very cautiously coming very slowly towards sun and should have captured but it walked away and I don't know whether how many of you know the control system or you know phase diagram probably most of you don't. So let me not get into that. But then a colleague of mine Kalakrishnan Babu Kalakrishnan he said it has gone faster than we came in. I said faster came that means we are in a wrong direction. So it was a sort of intuition and immediately of course Dhawan professor you are there so I frankly speaking I just forced them to come to a conference room to get blackboard to explain everything so this is what is happening and next time we will succeed. I am still sure they neither understood later but they said go ahead and we went ahead and next time when we did with the reverse direction we captured the sun and the satellite served so well afterwards everything was routine but to overcome you need to keep your faculties open afterwards we did very good experimentation that this satellite the space applications had built two transponders communication transport in C-Band and it was a very good experience for us to go in an operational mode this was again supposed to be building our confidence building experimental satellites. So once we have done this ILS one comes next ILS one has gone soon after Apple we had Bhaskara 2 and then we thought we have to go with a operational class of remote sensing satellite what does it mean it means that we have a resolution which is actually like like anywhere else in the world and as I told you what was the word word was only either Americans or Russians what Russians really had but they are mostly driven by the military applications so they won't even publish what is available but Americans the Landsat program was more of a civil program so we knew what they were doing so by the time we came here it was Landsat 3 so Landsat 3 had resolution of approximately 60 or 70 meters so we said we will not build a remote sensing satellite with 70 meter resolution which is at par with the Americans but then how to do that again this was a sort of gamble the charge coupled device as a detector was first time built by Fairchild and never used by anyone for the space they were actually doing for defense application even today CCD is used for all surveillance application but I am not talking of 1970 81 in 81 we were just configuring IRS 1 so we said we will use CCDs actually in this row we have been very you can say in decision making very aggressive we were the first people in the world in other type to use the CMOS technology people were using no one was using CMOS technology at that time everyone was using TTL but we were the first people similarly here we decided they will go for CCD now CCD NASA and other people they had a scanning array now we have in CCD we have an array itself so we need to scan only one direction where they had to do two scanning because there is only point source so technology wise if you go for CCD it is much more superior so we can catch with NASA in fact NASA went with the lens at 4 lens at 5 I think lens is 6 only the switch do go to CCD whereas we switched over in IRS 1 itself but then as a control system there were a lot of new issues I just mentioned to you about Apple but I didn't mention to you about it is something like called Momentum Biostat Stabilization again we are using a large wheel very high speed 2500 rpm wheel inside and that gives us the stability in Apple that is called Momentum Biostat Stabilization or Texas Stabilization now if we use that technology in imaging in remote sensing then there is something called Jitter actually there is a small motion and small motion can create problem when you are looking for we are seeing from something like 800 kilometers see when you image right now we are talking about maybe 8 meters or not even 8 meter 8 feet and if there is small motion if your hand moves slightly you get blur image now you can imagine that if you have got a R R is the distance no R theta basically distance is very large 800 kilometers if I am imaging from 800 kilometers blur effect is very large so we can't go for a Momentum Biostat Stabilization and there is again a new technology that requires gyros that requires different kind of referencing but all that had to be done we decided that we will go with that new technology with CCD devices with the Texas Momentum and this is where we really developed almost 13 to 14 new technologies we went to develop the reaction control system based on hydrazine and very high bit rate telemetry we went earlier we had VHF we went to S-Bend in S-Bend we were having a data rate of something like 70 megabits per second from a few kilo bits per second to 70 megabits per second so there was a huge jump of technology we did it on 17th of March 1988 we launched this IRS satellite and this satellite is the one which has really brought the whole country into a very different level by virtue of this satellite we launched IRS 1A IRS 1B IRS 1C and when we came to 1C and 1D which we launched in the mid 90s Indian remote sensing satellite technology was better than anywhere in the world as far as the as the nation is concerned in fact we are doing such a such less cost our lens at 6 cost was 1.2 billion dollars we did our IRS 1D at 230 crores and this is a just now it is also old slide but it gives you that because of IRS 1A we actually developed a various kind of a remote sensing missions we did a mission for ocean sensing there is a very different kind of a sensing technology because you are actually seeing different colors with a very large variability of the colors in that you are resolving because earth you have got large variability so a host of missions and we went to Cartoset so a different kind of a missions so the country became and even today we are a leading country in the world next I think too much time now having done IRS 1A then next was okay we must go for a remote sensing communication satellite which is of the world class and this is where the INSET 2 project started most of the managers in the early they said we are not capable of doing an INSET class of satellite so they some of them were not approving but then we insisted they said okay we will give you provided INSET test satellite TS so it was called INSET TS to start with test satellite I said the name does not matter we will do it so we started with that this satellite is actually a successor to the INSET 1 which we imported from US INSET 1A was launched in 1982 the launch in April but it failed in 4th October 1982 6 months afterwards then of course we launched 1984 we launched INSET 1B 1A failed 1B came 1B gave a big boost to the country it was imported satellite the satellite actually must ruin the television in the country earlier than that we were having television only in Bombay and Delhi and even Bengal didn't have but when 1B came because of 1B by the time in 1988 I am talking now 1984 to 1988 we had covered practically 90% of the coverage of the country in terms of the area and we had covered population wise even more than that because only remote sensing there was more than 100 repeat stations came so there was a transformation of communication in terms of TV in terms of telephony in terms of remote access places you can have a business model so all that came in those 5-6 years but then that was imported satellite of course we had a 1B 1C 1D so actually 3 satellites worked very well but then we said we will do that we will do the INSET 2 this is the INSET 2 spacecraft which we built we took this project somewhere around 1987 and first satellite we launched in 1992 it has got a very peculiar thing why there are no two solar panels the reason is that we have in this satellite a detector which actually is cooled being engineers you will know that if you have to detect infrared radiation then you need to have a cool detector and this required a cooling of 115 degree Kelvin you know Kelvin no because that room temperature is 273 Kelvin so 115 degree Kelvin cooling and for that cooling you need to radiate the energy to the space the cooler is small mass though but you have to radiate so we have a very special radiator we designed developed with the help of NAL and to radiate that we cannot have a solar panel because you need a north side so because of that there is a very interesting boom so this is a very complex geometry complex thing in this particular satellite and after the launch in 1992 it was the most used satellite in said 2A and 2B and of course 2C2D so this was something which we did next and afterwards we developed a very series of in said 2 satellites today there are so many every 6 months we are launching one so I just do not look at everything details I think I should close another 10 minutes you know we are working on civil civil activities civil applications I have not gone to the application because if you really hear someone from NRSE you will find out that we are the best in the world today even today for last maybe 20 years in applying the applications to the civil applications however in year 99 you know what is 99 important 99 not 97 it just happened I was director of the center the center is very near to you know have you heard about Isaac no Isaac you know annual so Isaac is nearby so we just at that time airport was here now the airport is far that airport was here actually airport so one day around food 30 was our chairman that time June I do not remember the exit date but June 99 he walked into our knowing suddenly he just opened the room and came so surprised so whatever it was he had a flight to Delhi and in those days there used to be flight at 4.30 and 7.50 roughly sometime is now but that was the exact time and that time he remained stable for a long time here in India at that time Indian alliance so here in India our alliance decided to merge these two flight to 7.50 so he came to go to Delhi but couldn't go so he said why to go to headquarter he walked into my room so we were discussing about anything that suddenly he said can we do something about this cargo till that time we had never thought of anything about defense applications but then I said to give me a week's time let's do what we can do so next day I talked to Joseph in SAC and the about went to them and see what payload we can develop how we can do help the armed forces and that time just over say a meeting with some like 20 people sitting together trying to put rain in by the evening of that day we came up with the configuration that if we can convert one of our satellite which we had 5.5 meters resolution to 1 meter resolution then the defense can be benefited by that because if we can give 1 meter resolution I am talking about 99 1 meter resolution which only you have said at that time then defense will get benefited but to do that we need to develop lot of new technologies almost 13 new technologies so we said together and we said ok not only we have to do it we do it fast so we said we will do it in next 2 years and we gave a presentation to Dr. Kastur Rangan after a week and we said we want to take up this satellite what name first so we decided we will now name it technology experiment satellite just to hide that we are doing something for defense here so explicitly so we call it TS and in this one simple thing is you know if you are going in a bus we made in buses or train train is going and there is a board you know advertisements come nowadays you know it could be Wix or could be anything else so you are reading an advertisement what do you do how do you read that you actually put your neck as per the line suppose you say Wix is good for cuff I will give you an example what do you do my train is moving I am moving with the train but my Wix is good for cuff so I am actually making my head in such a way that my eyes will see it is called actually I am staring my train velocity is different I am adjusting to the reading speed so there is a coordination between what is my real movement and my eyes movement and that is done by the brain satellite is moving at 7.8 kilometers per second now I have to image with 1 meter per second now actually satellite is moving at 7.8 kilometers per second 7.8 kilometers per second it is very fast and with that I have to read this 1 meter and I have a resolution in my system which is 5.8 meter so I have to have an apparent velocity direction of 5.8 ratio now this is what something only done by one satellite at that time by America this was one satellite otherwise no one had done it but we said we will do it if you want to do it similarly a new way of communication have you heard of phasor antenna you have heard no no it is becoming common but that time the phasor antenna concept was actually just evolving on paper no one had built a phasor antenna in this country but we said we will do it because when satellite is going my field of view is something like 146 degree so from one end to other end so when I am sending the data let's say at our station in Hyderabad we have a station in Narasenaw so there where may be the satellite the data should come only at Hyderabad so I need to align my optical axis or not in optical you can say line of sight axis towards Hyderabad all the time where may be the satellite be so this was basically hemispherical coverage an antenna where the beam has to look at Hyderabad and these algorithms satellite may be anywhere it has to be put into the satellite because satellite has to know where I am satellite has to know in the inertial space where Hyderabad station is and then align the phase so like that there was 13 to 14 new technologies and I can assure you that not of youngsters like you once we said we are doing this to save the life of our soldiers the amount of effort hard work that went even in ISRO either we did that much of hard work in a better time in 1975 or we did now in 99 lady was there one scientist one basumati basumati she was working on integration and testing she had two kids many small kids so she told her mother allah you please come take care of next two years I am not able to take care of the kids it's really happened she forced her mother allah to come to take care of the kids because all the time in clean room day time, night time like that amount of devotion amount of commitment just because we said we wanted to save and I give only one slogan if we can save one soldier's life then our life is worth it and that was taken by everyone so this is a TES this is something a phenomenal satellite and I can assure you no one else in the world has ever done any of this kind okay I will not give to last vehicle now because next you go we will not touch that yeah this is also one very small very important thing we actually along with Dr. Suresh Dr. Suresh was here he was telling me two of us for the first time when it came together two of it means Isaac and VSSC and we did a satellite for recovery so actually it was a satellite and also it has a launch vehicle technologies so it remained for one month in orbit and then entered and we recovered the payload so it is a recovered payload was the technology which we developed and was probably the the time when I was leaving in fact the satellite was launched I left this road next okay that was another thing which in the beginning phase I put a lot of time in terms of defining the mission of the Chandrayam trying to understand why Chandrayam anyway we will learn to get into these details I think this is the so what I am just trying to tell you that this was one part of the journey when I until 75 I was asked to do a different job said okay we had a none of a space so do something in different field and that was creating the ministry of our science we had a ministry of ocean development which looks only on aspects of the ocean but the earth is complex system ocean couples with atmosphere atmosphere couples with ocean if you look at ocean alone you can't get many things if you look at atmosphere alone you can't have a forecast of weather or forecast of cyclone if you are looking at atmospheric alone there are all coupled systems so there was something which I went to 75 and this was 2005 so three years we organized a totally new ministry things like tsunami warning system because there was something which happened in 2005 on 24th of December something which we never understood and not realize but then we created by 2007 the worst best tsunami warning system as you are working today at Inquai Sardarabad lot of affairs in integrating the India Metrology Department and making them accept that they have to change their technology go to numerical weather modeling synoptic is not adequate for the for this so there was a kind of a a new thinking in the country and we are the first country in the world to have ministry of our science so then of course after ministry of science I went to DRDO it just happened in a span of almost a week three things happened I was in headquarters through headquarters as a and this 2611 happened you are not that young so you remember that within a day afterwards I got a call from Delhi that I will be a member of national security advisory board is a body of some retired people one or two scientists most of the people come from either defense or external affairs ministry and give a policy directive to the government of India on how security has to be managed and also within three days I got a appointment as a chairman of the RAC in DRDO which is again dealing with the defense so this was something which forced me to think in terms of defense of the country and did a lot of things like coastal security like surveillance border surveillance quite novel ideas but most important is that this country we had not looked at space for defense except for TS we really didn't TS also came out of the that meeting with the once we launched TS the Indian defense they were surprised that we have launched they have no idea but once they got the picture for next five years actually I want to take a picture of Bangalore because there was limited capability they wanted all the time border they were not allowed to touch the satellite other than the defense requirements for next five years this gives us happiness but otherwise the defense application of space is something which has been not seen so I created a unit de-assisting has come out of that thing basically it's focused on defense and then of course what I am doing now is still asking a lot of questions which I don't have answers I don't know whether some of you will be able to find the answers no the questions simple questions one simple question is you know AMG road AMG road I was told in 1965 a road was laid it lasted in 1988 it did not require repair it had very technology right we still have a technology in my layout in Bangalore they are such a good expertise that the road does not last more than three months three months it becomes available and you must have seen that many places you have laid with the road and heart doesn't last what's wrong with us you have to answer yesterday this answering trying to answer ourselves a similar question that ok I will come to the later let's look at few other questions you know we have done LCA it's one of the very good when we wanted to do navy version the navy said no we don't want it we want to import and the naval version of the NTA has been worried we developed the border surveillance camera with the sack and we are doing together something is wrong this is not we have got a better ones to look at the problems of this country there are at least 1,000 different problems we have how many engineers we produce any idea you have we are producing almost 10 lakhs engineers every year in this country we are producing second largest number of engineers in the world also we have you go everywhere are we building UAVs ourselves you will find everything is kit is coming all the universities IIT Bombay IIT Chennai and all that they are doing they are doing drones right all these excellent laboratories we are all assembling the kits yesterday someone asking a question when we are producing our engineers something like 22,000 of 10 lakhs are coming from IITs and NITs rest are coming from the rest of the so called universities and the studies say 80% of them are not employable I personally do not agree with that statement and I many times give an example that when I went to space I do not know anything about satellite I told you know my answers were I do not know but does it mean it is not employable so non employable is not the training we have given in the subject non employability comes from your framework of your mind Infosys takes people just looking at the attitude they do not care for your thought and I agree with that it is the mental framework do I have capability to learn and do I have my commitment to solve the problem that is more important than what we are teaching in the class what we are teaching in the class whether it is calculus whether it is material science whether it is electronics they are enablers and learning can be done all the time so there are so many questions why we do not have aircraft I have been struggling for last I think almost 3 years along with the quota and many other people friends that we must develop our own civil aircraft in the country we have capability single man Elon Musk how many you heard about the name of Elon Musk you know what all he is doing he has reduced the cost of launch satellite launch by a factor of 3 and he has revolutionized whatever the complete model of America going just demolished he is doing train hyperloop at something like 800 kilometers an hour and of course then he is doing Tesla the electric car everywhere he touches he is doing that why we cannot have how many engineers are America produces how many we produce why we cannot have our own because there are so many you are all how many we have so this is a question which and actually if you ask me what I do know sitting at Naya sitting in a headquarter I go on asking these questions thank you from the start even up till now see the encouragement for that in the private Indian industries there is that disconnect for example if an Indian company registered in India wants to buy submitted data they can't because of that we are not able to develop our own downstream applications at the Indian level how can we change that how can we like you see this is a question which I also don't have answer but I will just give you as a secretary to our sciences the issue of data so called geospatial data was coming not very closely but remotely under my purview and at that time I minister Kapil Sibbal and myself went to the defense minister Mr. Mukherjee he was that time the defense minister he told him that if you are looking for the development of the country you need to remove these restrictions actually restrictions for the Ministry of Defense is not space space has no restrictions but it's coming from the Ministry of Defense for absolutely no valid reasons for a totally lack of understanding but he said he will examine he will do but nothing happened so there are questions I really don't have answer I have only a question I have gone to the extent of as a secretary to meet defense again that too very elite defense minister Mr. Mukherjee but he also didn't do anything so I really don't have a it's not a technical question it's a question of you can say our mindset somewhere and we are generating today from the Kato to see 0.3 meter resolution images which is again best in the world our own satellite I make lot of recommendation to you there is no point in making recommendation to you but let's look at this point in a positive sense you see the society has to change and as a part of the revolution we have to see the changing dynamics throughout the world if one organization takes responsibility of all the thinking then the thinking gets actually I would say stereotype becomes you cannot think diverse way so you need to bring a larger community so as far I am concerned I am absolutely convinced that actually I used to word when I was director I used to word demystify space space has become a mystery for the common man it's not it's a science there is no mystery in that if I am succeeding in making something that means I have understood the technology I have understood if I failed the satellite is failing I have missed somewhere some finder point I missed that's why it's failing so it's all science there is no mystery I need to demystify space and I am sure the people in space are not something very special I am not very special I came from a very small village background and a few are probably much better ground than when you were born so what is the reason no reason all of us can do that it's the only question of our mindset need to change good all the best to you New space India is the ISP alumni okay which department I was in aerospace Beshear you come sometime to go on we will discuss that New space India is the organization which basically works towards creating awareness for how space is evolving