Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate 2.0, where we explore the history of a clandestine scene. Researching everything from cannabis strain history, old smuggling tales from the first person perspective, to breeding science and news on current subculture. I'm your host, Matthew, and I'll occasionally be joined by my homie, Natsudon, Breeder, and grower from Mendocino, to speak on these subjects and sometimes interview other participants. Our goal is to document this history before it's written by corporations and others who just weren't there. Let's start writing some wrongs. Welcome to the Underground. Welcome, Breeder Syndicate. I'm here with my buddy, Kendo. He is an old school forum member, old school breeder, old school grower, and anything else I'm forgetting?  He's an old school truth teller, is the best way that I could explain this. An old school critical thinker from the forum to an old school truth teller, and it's an honor to have him here. I've been wanting to get him for a long time and I think you guys will enjoy this, so we'll start it off now. So, you know, just talking about the pre-forum days, you know, when I was like 15 years old, I did my first grows up in the hills above San Jose. Okay. And it was good. I mean, you know, at that point I had learned how to grow plot, but I had no idea, you know, what I was growing and any of that type of stuff. So, I went up to Berkeley. There was this underground record store, right? What year's we talking? 1975. Geez. Alright, let's go. 75. 75. Way back then. But me and a buddy went up to this underground record store in Berkeley and they had this little, or a group of these little cliff note hippie gorilla grow guides. Yeah. Right. So it's just like this, like, five inches by four inches, maybe 20 pages that hippie put together that, you know, described essentially how to set up a gorilla grow. You know what I mean? Was it the old cultivators book with a little girl watering can on the front? No. Okay. No, no. Alright. This was just like with, you know, like some art paper. Yeah. And it was just, it was, it was crude, but it was really helpful. Yeah. And so, you know, I found a spot, man, I got some seeds, found a good spot that was in a dry wash. So, you know, the soil was good. It had a, it had a spring sped, little, little runoff above, right? Yeah. So I had water that I could bring down and everything turned out good. It was a, it was really beneficial that it was a long hot summer. Because, you know, again, you know, I didn't, I didn't know much about strains at that point, blah, blah, blah. And so I had grown some, some Maui and some Colombian. Yeah. We're talking long, long-term genetics. Yeah. Long flowering, man. So they weren't, they weren't ready until almost the end of November. Yeah. But we only saw two rains during that entire time. That's nice. Lucky itself. Yeah. Right?  Yeah, yeah, of course. But it turned out beautiful, really, really good. You know, I got it, I got it all down, got it all transported because it was way back in the mountains, way back in the hills, right?  And, you know, at that point, man, pretty much all we saw was, was, you know, Bricklead. Yeah. You know what I mean? Some good Colombian, Guerrero, some meat and some different stuff like that, right? Yeah. But for the most part, it was all just Brick, with seeds and shake and yada, yada. So, you know, I made a splash in my neighborhood, right? I bet. And there was a couple of guys. My brother was older, like eight years older, so he had some friends that were growing.  I've had the Kendo name for a long time because of my martial arts, right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. So the one guy, they called him the doctor, right? He was like, man, this is some green lizard shit, right? The name just stuck, right? Yeah, yeah. From then on, you know, I was known as Kendo the Green Wizard, right? That's awesome. You know, that, that girl turned out really good, man.  And it was good. And, you know, back then, I didn't tell anybody I was growing weed. Yeah, yeah. Somebody wanted, somebody wanted some weed. I'd be like, yeah, I can get you something. Yeah, I'll go to the guy. Give me your money. I'll be back. Yeah.  Yeah. And it worked out well. It worked out really, really well. A good little, little story from those days was I was back in this, in this park, right? It was like a state park or county park and they had miles and miles of trails. So I went way back down this trail, got off of the county land into some other land and there was some, some, some brush and some trees. And so, you know, I would do like six plants in each area. Yeah. So I got a spot. I had six plants growing and I always had an alternative way to walk. I would never walk directly to my grill, right? Sure. So I walked and it was up above the site, right? It was, you know, maybe, maybe a hundred feet up above the site.   I'm thinking maybe it's, you know, a deer or something, right? Yeah. And somebody, some dude gets up from where he was hiding, goes and obviously goes and takes a leak. Yeah. And comes back. Yeah. And then I see somebody else, right? Trying to be all stealthy in the bushes too.  Yeah.  I'm out of here. So I stashed what I had. You know what I mean? I had my backpack. I stashed everything that I had that was grow related. Some duct tape, some scissors, you know, some other stuff. I stashed all that. And then walk back around my little trail, got on the actual trail and started going back to where I was going. Kind of walking fast, right? I didn't want to run. Yeah. I was walking fast. So, you know, I keep looking back, keep looking back and I see them coming from behind me.  What am I going to do, man? Yeah.  For sure. So I'm all nervous, man.  Literally. I get those.  My rumbling, bumbling. Yeah.   I don't know about those. Yeah. So I drop it down, drop my pants.  So, you know, maybe two minutes later, maybe less, right?    Hey, man, I'm sitting here. What are you doing? I'll go put your hands up.  I'm like, if I put my hands up, I'm going to fall down, man.    And he's like, well, well, well, finish up then. Hurry up. Let's move slowly. I'm like, all right, man, no problem. So I wipe, you know what? Yeah. The target together, right? Cause you got the little strings. Yeah. Make a little, little container out of it.   And so the guys, the guys like, come over this way slowly, right? There's at your backpack. I'm going to ask my backpack. Well, come on. So then he tells me, let me see your hands. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't get any poop on my hands, man. You don't want to miss your hands, right? Because back then we all used the blue stuff. Right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the 105210. Yeah.    So he's looking at my hands, right? I got no blue on my hands.  What are you doing? I'm like, bro, I'm hiking. He's like, we didn't see you. I'm walking back over, selling, selling, selling such and such. I go, well, I only went so far and I saw that that was the end of the trail. Yeah. So I turned around and started walking back. He's like, well, you know, this is, this is a dangerous place. I'm like, danger, man.  I mean, what do you guys ask you? Well, we're, we're, we're looking for some illegal marijuana growers and you got to be careful because those illegal marijuana growers, man, they're dangerous. They can set up some movie traps and stuff. I'm like, yeah, yeah.  All right. Just go on. Go on down the trail. Just be careful. Don't come back this way again. Know that we're about to get right. And I'm like, all right. All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to mess up your, your, your investigation. Yeah, right. I'm walking away. I'm laughing, bro.  Right. Well, obviously I lost those plants, right? Yeah. I had three, I had three more spots. So it didn't matter. Yeah.  What was the old, um, the old thing like plant one for you, plant one for these plant one for cops type deal. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. And it was also plant, plant another one for the wildlife. Oh, that's true. Yeah. You got rabbits and gears and rabbits and kangaroo rats and you name it, bro. They were taking it right with rats. I would, I would take a chicken wire. Yeah. And I would make a basket. You know what I mean? And then the basket would be two feet above the soil line. You know what I mean? So now you got a basket.  And then you got a two feet up above and I would take it and, you know, you always, I would always take off the bottom branches. Yeah. You know, let's just grow one on one.  So that stops rabbits. It stops kangaroo rats. That stops gophers.  Those fuckers girdle. Like they, they, they strip the bottom base of your plants for people that don't know, like rats will just strip it and they do it once and it'll kill the whole plant instantly. Well, they do that on purpose because they want to knock the plant over. Is that why they do it? Because they can only reach, they can only reach so many of the leaves down low. I didn't realize that. I was like, why did they always just target that base socks? They want, they want to knock it down. That makes sense. That's how it does. Yeah. Yeah. And then they get all the leaves off of it, man.  That's right. But yeah, I mean, you know, it was a, it was, it was an adventure, man. You know, I don't know if you've ever seen brown dirt warrior. No. So it's a guy from Canada and he did a bunch of, he did a bunch of videos where he would, he would go out and show people how he was gorilla growing. You know, you'd have like two big bags of, of sunshine mix. Oh yeah. One on each shoulder and, you know, hike his way five, 10 miles into the bush and blah, blah, blah. And that's, I mean, that's really what it's like. Yeah. It's literally what it's like, you know, and I got some work.  To be light. So it'd be light. All right. Cause you know, in the beginning it's 20 pounds, right? Yeah. Let it lighten up.  Yeah. But I would just cut my bag in half and then just fill it, fill each half with water. Yeah. Let it soak it up. Do that a couple of times, man.  No. That's actually really good advice too. Yeah. You know, it worked out. I mean, not many people are gorilla growing anymore. They do. You have some. A lot of people who watch this show do. Really? Yeah. So this is good advice, man. Cause you know, once you get out, once you get back there, man, it's, you know, it's, it's easy to hydrate it and it's just impossible to get it back there. Right. It's crazy. Right. And you know, I did a lot of, I did a lot of crazy different gorilla girls, man. I did some that were, you know, all the way up on the top of a ridge where the water sources was down at the bottom. And what I do is I just took old water beds and took them to the top of the ridge and then I would get down below and I had an OG foot pump that I hooked up to a bicycle pedals. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would just sit down and just, you know, and pedaling and fill everything up, man. Fill it all up. And it worked out well. And I mean, I had some water beds because there was a, I don't know if you know Mad Jag. He used to be on the forums. I see Mag. And he was an old, uh, grower back in the day, gorilla grower in the late seventies did the first big skunk one grows that he gave me this old, this old catalog and it was for gorilla growers. And it was from the late seventies, early eighties. And it had these big inflatable, like, like basically water bed innards that you would fill up with water for a gorilla growing, but water bed is perfect.  Just pump it down. Yeah. And then I would just cover them with leaves. You know what I mean? Cover the water beds with leaves. And then I would grow, I would grow down the backside, the south facing side of these ridges, right? Because, uh, you know, it was, uh, I was growing an area that had a decent amount of hunters. Yeah. But if, you know, if the incline is as such, you don't have to worry about hunters going down there. Yeah. They don't want to go around there. Yeah. And it was, I mean the incline on this, this particular spot that I was doing that at, um, I would, I would actually tie off a rope to tree at the top and then just work my way across to the different plants. You know what I mean? Cause it worked out well, this is long before we had camp or any of that. Didn't have to worry about helicopters or anybody coming swooping in on your shit, blah, blah, blah. When camp fight came in, I was actually, I would get on a south facing hillside and then tuck my plants up underneath the oak trees. Yeah. Right.  Yeah. So you really couldn't, you really couldn't see them.  Cause, you know, as I go in, if I saw any recent tracks or areas that were apparent that people were moving around in that area, I would just walk. It's not, it's not worth it. Man, it was just not worth the prison time, bro. Yeah. Some people get that greed and, and, and think about all the work and just like, I can't walk, but that's what keeps people safe.  You gotta be smarter. I wasn't, I wasn't prepared to go to prison. Right. You know, using my instinct and my, using my instincts and my intuition, bro. I kept myself out of, out of jail. You know what I mean? Real quick.  Can you tell us a little bit about some of that karate background? Cause I know people are going to want, want me to ask that. So when I first started, man, it was a, I got in a lot of fights as a kid, right? Yeah.  I grew up in Oakland. And so when I moved to this little town called Melpitas, a lot of farm boys who thought they were tough, right? Yeah. They weren't tough. And so I got in a lot of fights, right? It's like Bakersfield. Pardon? It's like Bakersfield, all the farm guys and yeah, it's how I grew up. Yeah. Oh yeah, bro. And so, you know, my parents put me into karate in hopes that it would teach me discipline and restraint from fighting. Right. Yes. It worked to a degree. Right. It worked to a degree, but it also didn't work to another degree. Right. I didn't get in trouble anymore. Right.  But I started off doing a, I started off doing Taekwondo. Right. And that's where the Kendo came in, right? Yeah. And I did work with Kendo sticks. Kendo sticks. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I loved it, bro. I was good at it. Yeah. Right.  And I go crack, crack. Yeah. It was great. But then I got into what's known as Kajikembo with a school called Crazy Dragons. Okay. And essentially Crazy Dragons was Cobra Kai. Oh, okay. Yeah. We were Cobra Kai. Yeah. Bad guys.  We were Cobra Kai. Yeah. So it was a, it was featured on. On a fight quest. Yeah, yeah, I have, I have. So it's a, it's a fight quest feature Cobra. Kajikembo. You know, we would learn how to fight 101. Then it was two on one, then three on one, four on one, five on one. All street fighting. No mercy. No mercy karate. No mercy. Kajikembo is five different arts combined together. So it was the, the first mixed martial art. And it was the first American martial art. It came out of Hawaii. Yeah. So it was great, dude. It was, it was really good.  See, I'm so far into martial arts and in the history that like this fascinates me. This part of it fascinates me, you know, I started off as a shodokan kid at Wage, you can hear with a ballard of the sense it. And, but I was a kid. Like I got put in the same, same reasons. Parents saw me fighting a bunch and thought, wanted me to have some restraint. But what it taught me was you don't just unload on everyone.   That's what, that's what the discipline I learned, but I eventually got kicked out for street fighting. Yeah. I ended up becoming the bully of the bullies. Yeah. That's what I did. Yeah. And I'm short. The guys that were bullies, man, I, I take it to them. You know what I mean? I do. Because I see that you took that to the forums too. And as we venture into there, this is why like, I really, for people that don't know, like I have spent a long time on the forums myself, but Kendo was on the forums before my time. And there, there throughout the history, there hasn't been a lot of people that have given pushback to scammers, the liars, the con artists. Kendo was the pre-premet, right? Long before I existed, Kendo was holding it down hard. So I really want to go into some of that too, because it's special moments, important moments.  Well, you know, man, being at it for such a long time. And I mean, I was a, I was a web guy in the 80s before the internet was even created, right? It was back in the, the BBS days, right? Bulletin board services and discussion boards, right? There wasn't a gooey, there was nothing like that, right? And I learned how to troll from guys at that time, right? Learning how to troll just with words. You know what I mean? Just with words, just to get people going and get people on edge, right? Expose themselves. Get them doing that kind of stuff, right? But before we get into that, let me just do a little bit more of the pre-form, right? So, when I was like somewhere around 18, man, I met, I met one of the Hayes brothers up in Santa Cruz.   It took a liking to me, right? I was a kid. I was growing some good weed, not great weed, right? Is this RL? Pardon? Is this RL? No. Okay. No. And he wasn't, I mean, there was a whole group of guys who were part of that crew, right? You see the thing behind me, the Hayes brothers poster? Yeah. Right behind me. Yeah. Part of the quest, man. And so, you know, I met him. I was actually kind of sort of dating this guy's niece. You know what I mean? Okay. So I went up to a picnic and, you know, blah, blah, blah. There was all the family there. You know, I busted out some of my weed and they liked it.   This is incredible. So the guy took a liking to me and I went up and I helped him. I helped him trim. I helped him do some stuff.  It wasn't a California trim, right? He was taking, take the big leaves off and, you know, they leave the smaller sugar leaves, right? But he took me with him as he went up to Mendo and Humboldt and Trinity, right? And so I went back. I didn't go all the way through to Spyrock, right? But we went back in that, that area and, you know, a lot of other places and, and it was, it was really interesting. Right. You didn't trim for money. You trimmed for weed. Yeah, right.   Right. That's a lot of money, man. I was happy. But yeah, so I met that guy and I went through a lot of other stuff, man.  And when, when Cali medical hit, you know, we got some licenses or 2003. 95. 95. God damn, man. It was way back. Yeah. It was 95. I had been doing, you know, the, the 215 getting signatures for the 215 and doing a bunch of stuff, working with a lot of the guys, Dale Garlander, some of the other guys who were, you know, the leaders of that, that movement. And it was great, man. I was, I was really happy to do that. But I started growing in my backyard. Right. It was fantastic, man. I just got like four, I got four, you know, four licenses from other people. And, you know, I'm growing in my backyard. I got no worries. I'm not scared of nothing, man. Growing great plants right there. It was fantastic, man. And then I looked up with some of my brother's old friends and they were growing out in this area back behind the Livermore, California.  It's, it's a lot of nothing rattlesnakes, cougars, you know, desert dude, a lot of desert, a lot of scrub, scrub oak, tumble weeds. And, you know, it just, it was way back there. This operation was way back there. And I affectionately call it crazy crusties cannabis co-op. Okay. And, and, you know, I did, I did good back there, man. But there was some, there was some clowns growing weed back there, bro. I mean, there was, there was one set of guys, man.  There was one set of guys, they thought growing weed was taking a, a post hole digger.  Right. Maybe it's, you know, 16 inches deep and then dropping a one gallon pot in there. Oh no. That was their version of growing weed. Can you imagine? It was, it was horrible. Yeah. Those guys was growing lollipops, right? This class of people, this big around. Literally. Yeah. As white as the pot, man. They can't grow out. Just ridiculous, man. So it was funny dude, but I did really, really good up there on that, on that spot.  But in the interim, you know, as a, before we even got up there is when I was introduced to overgrow. Right. So now we'll start with the forums, man. Overgrow was really interesting to me, right?  Yeah. No, no, no, not at all. And so when I started that overgrow, it was like 01, 2001. And, and I just learned, I learned for a little over a year. You know what I mean? Just learning, doing things. A lot of people do that, you know, don't want to interact yet. But like, I think that's a lot of the old school method that you sit down, you listen, and you learn before you jump in.  And so like you said, bro, I started, I started noticing a lot of inconsistencies. You know what I mean? Yeah.  Yeah. This person's scamming.  That's not right, you know, but I still hadn't started posting, right? Yeah. So as time went on, I was like, God, I'm just going to post some stuff, right? And I started actually posting in the political forums. That's where I started posting, right?  Oh yeah. I can't help it, man. But, you know, after I got my legs, you know, from posting in the political forums, you know, I felt comfortable and I started going after some of these guys and pointing out that, you know, I thought they were scammers and, you know, I didn't trust what they were saying. And at that point, I started getting blowback from the moderators. You know what I mean? Because these guys, well, these guys were, they had, they had people fooled. You know, everybody talked about the coolest, nicest, most friendly guys, or they were people that were so much in need. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. My whole world fell apart and yada yada yada. Yeah. And as you know, the forum back then, everybody wanted to help everybody, right? Always, yeah. And it was cool, right? And I, I helped a lot of people, right? In a small community, people that cared about each other. Absolutely.   Big time. Yeah, dude. So I would start questioning these guys, you know, tell me, tell me more. Tell me more. If I'm going to do something for you, you got to explain to me how this came about. So it's not making a lot of sense to me.   Why are you doing this? What's your problem? Bad vibes, bro. So at that, exactly, exactly. So at that point now, I'm already raising, you know what I mean?  You know what I mean? And yada, yada, yada. So I was like, all right, whatever, whatever's clever. I don't care, man. Yeah. So then, you know, I'm thinking about how I'm going to shake things up a little bit. Yeah. How am I going to shake things up over here, man? So I posted up a thread called IP on my plans. Classic. Even during my time, I knew what that was. Looking down, right, on my plants, and I'm holding a water bottle out of sight, right, with a hole in the front of it. And I'm squirting the plants down, but it looks like I'm actually peeing on my plants, right? Being on your plants. Yeah. The whole premise of the thread was about how much people were using Urea products. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it was just a joke. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it was just a joke. And before you knew it, man, it just started taking off.   I can't believe you. I would never smoke your weed.  What's wrong with you? And it just started taking off, bro. I mean, literally just started taking off. And by the end of that thread, it had, there was only a couple of other threads were even close, right? Yeah. But it had the most activity of any thread on overgrow. That's so funny. Thousands and thousands of replies and comments and, you know, hates and loves. Oh, yeah. It was a joke, dude. It was a joke. Some people got it, right? And most people didn't. Most people didn't. And then other people just wanted to be chumps about it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then, you know, at that point now, I'm feeling real comfortable. I'm like, fucking, I'm going to start commenting on everything. I'm just commenting all over the place. And I'm gaining all kinds of people and friends and doing this and that. And I gained the, the site of the sharks tank. Okay. Do you remember the sharks tank? No, no. It was before my time. So the sharks tank was, was like the, the spot for overgrow where they could send the trolls. It was a place where they could have uncensored content. Yeah. Without, without having to do that. And they could, you know, they would send the trolls to the sharks tank, right? Yeah. So there was a lot of guys over there that were, you know, really good trolls, man. Oh, I'm sure. So, so they did not, they did not like me. Juice and a bunch of these other guys who were over there. Yeah. They took side of me. Right. So they essentially set me up. Yeah. And then came at me real hard. And, you know, on overgrow, they had a hard moderation policy.  So when I started calling people names, you know what I mean? Yeah. I got banned. Yeah. Right. I got banned. Right. And so then, you know, I was, I was pissed. I was, I was real pissed. Oh yeah. But I, you know, I was like, all right, whatever, man, whatever. And I started at cannabis world and I rejoined overgrow as serb buds alive. And, and then, and then I got a message at, at overgrow from plural of Mongoose. Oh. You, you heard a pearl, a plural. Dude, he snitched on the whole world, bro. Yeah. Yeah. He was Silk Road. He was the guy who taught Silk Road. Oh, I know. Oh, I know. So I got a message from plural. Right. Yeah. And he tells me, here's what's going on at the sharks tank. Right.     You don't know troll. You don't know nothing. Right. So then I was like, all right. Watch this man. So I created a website called Playbud. Right. And on the website, I just started, you know, posting my thoughts, posting a bunch of different stuff. And then I started one called the Sacking of Kindle. Right. And on there, I started talking about it, put this stuff up, the plural input gave me, started talking shit about all the different people at the sharks tank. And this one guy, he was like a main moderator and he was Mr. Michael. He was a main moderator and he was one of the guys who was, you know, part of the Sacking of Kindle. Sure.  So then he goes, by that time I joined the sharks tank. Yeah. And started talking about it and started talking to him and calling him, you know, calling him out. And he read this stuff on Playbud and then posted up personal information about me. Oh, he doxxed you. On the Sack. Well, that was against policy. Yeah. That was one of the biggest TOU violations at the sharks tank. Right. That's the ultimate troll move to get someone to do that. So I got him banned. Yeah. One of the main moderators, right? That's amazing.  Yeah. Yep. Yep. So I created the troll, I created the troll mafia. And I had like, I had like, you know, 40 different personas on the sharks tank. I created like 25 on overgrow. And I would go in and I would start a thread. And then I would post to the thread. Commenting on what I said, right?  You know what I mean? And then other people coming back and forth, right? Yeah. Just go on and on, right? I just would just, it was fun. It was fun. It was great.  But, yeah, so, so the sharks tank was a really good, a good way for me to, to get shit going. I got my wife into it. Her name was team thundercunt. That's awesome. You got your wife into it too. She got into it. Well, I could, I would keep telling her all the different things.  Yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. So after that, right? I, you know, was posting on, they, so then I got overgrow to allow me to come back. Yeah. Oh, they were hot, bro. I was the only person, the only person ever to be reintroduced back into overgrow. Yeah. The only person, right? Cause I started a campaign, let Ken go back.  Let Ken go back. Awesome. I literally, there ended up being a couple of thousand of people who did that, right? So they let me back in. They let me back in, right? Yeah. And, you know, overgrow was great, man. It was great. And, you know, the IP, IP on my plants was, was probably the, the best one that I ever put out there, man. Oh yeah. I put a couple, I put a couple of other ones out there, right? Which was a, one of them was a moderation, moderators and the moderated. And it was a, it was a vision into what moderation truly is. You know what I mean? How you moderate people, right? What it's supposed to be. What it's supposed to be, right? And then about who and what moderators are supposed to do and about what we saw at overgrow and at cannabis world as well, right? That they really weren't moderators. They were just ego, ego-driven people who, you know, would go after people they didn't like and, you know, let the people that they did like get away with whatever they wanted to. You know how it is, bro. It's still the same. It doesn't change. It doesn't change. And then it was about the moderated. Those of us who are under those policies and, bro, that one got, that one got a lot of visualization. It opens people's eyes. A lot of people don't even put time into thinking or understanding the psychology behind it all. And you see, and you've seen me, man.   Oh yeah. 90% of these people, right? I learn, it's like a game of chess, right? It really is like a game of chess, right? And they're all playing specters. Yeah. And psychologically, you know, on, on a website, when you're on a website, people are at their keyboard. And so it's their own little world, right? And so their base comes out, right? They can't help but show their base and who they truly are. And it's very easy to manipulate people.  I love it. Yeah. And it was a, it was based on shopping hours, 31 ways to win an argument. Yeah. And sun, sun soothes Art of War. Art of War, yeah. Right.  I bet it does. People can make them paint themselves into a corner and then watch them, you know, you can see it right away when they figure out that they painted themselves into a corner. Right. They start stumbling and they start trying to figure out how to do this and do that. Right. And with that moderation, with that moderation and the moderated post, I, I got a lot of those moderators to paint themselves into a corner straight up because they would come in and it would be like, oh, that's, that's bullshit. I don't do that. I don't do that. And I would just post up examples. You know what I mean? And always, every time I would start with no disrespect intended. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And just, you know, get them to, to, you know, keep stepping on themselves and be like, well, you say this, but how about this? This is what you did in this instance. Oh, and this is what you did in that instance. It's hard for me to be able to see any difference between this, that and the other.  You're not doing it by example. So explain to me where you're doing this. Yeah. So many of them. Many of them, bro. And literally, bro, I got, I got these guys to where they, they hated me. They hated me. Oh, I bet. I bet. It can get dangerous. That can get dangerous more than people realize though. Well, you know, I'm not scared. I'm not scared of nothing. I'm just talking about like as far as people that are snitchy. That, that's the scary. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you get snitched on, man. Nowadays you get swatted. That's what I mean. That's horrible with where it's gone today. As far as like, because back in the day, it was like, sometimes you'd run into these people and you just fight and that's over. That's cool.  That's not in our playbook. We don't have those roles to run that way. So it's like they get this dominion. They always have that upper hand that they can do that. Oh yeah, bro.  You know what I mean? They would, they would confront me. Cause you know, I've been to lots of different, you know, parties, harvest parties. Oh yeah.  And do you try to confront me there? I was like, what? Yeah, we can do.  I'm not scared.  You know what I mean? Like, dude, I'm, you're not the first guy, big guy I've ever fought, man. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, you can, you can take it to the limit or we could just say whatever. You know, I'm not going to take it back. I meant what I said. Yeah, exactly.  Let's, let's figure this out. Right. Yep. But, you know, from overgrown minute and shark state, I met a lot of people personally. You know what I mean?  I'm sure. You know what I mean? You can imagine. Right. People coming over, staying on the, staying on the couch. But of course I'd vet them first. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. And find out about them. You know, I'd go to their house. We'd meet up at concerts and, you know, parties and blah, blah, blah. And there were a lot of parties from cannabis world that I got involved in. Right. Can you talk about some of those? Pardon? Can you talk about some of those any, any good stories from those? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, bro. So cannabis world was a sister site for, for overgrown. Right. And that's, I think that's where they, that's actually where they launched heaven stairway from, I believe. From cannabis world. Right. Yep. Richard ran overgrow and cannabis world. Was he all right? Yeah. What was it? It was a guy that was NL. Was NL 420 and. Fool girl. Who else? Somebody else. I think it was a guy named IO. IO one, maybe they started, they started overgrow. Right. And then. And then once overgrowth started taking off, because it didn't, it was like a year that was 60,000, 60,000 members. I know.  Right. And so then they were trying to finance it by the ads. Right. But there was so much, so much content. Right.  Right. Yeah. Yeah. Paper search service storage space. They couldn't do it. Right. So it was becoming too prolific and too much. And so a fool girl. NL 420 and this other person. Stepped away. And. Calrissian Richard. Jumped in. So she bang handled the. Handled the tech part of it. And then the money. Right. And then they came up with, they started doing the auction. At first. And that was, that was good. Right. That's when subbie, that's when subbie got involved. Right. Do you remember who are you? RC. Oh, was that his real name or his original first name was. Richard. No, no, no. Sub cool. Oh, subbie.  I don't know what is. Roo or something like that. Yeah. I just always called him subbie. Yeah. But yeah, that's when, when he started doing his thing. Right. And you know, there was, it was a, it was just a bunch of the 77 crew, man. I don't know much about the 77 crew. If it, like, because I remember there's always. 77 attached to everything. And I know that it's part of Eric. I was Eric. I see. The 77 crew. Is he ahead of it or just part of it? No, no, he's just part of it. Right. So the 77 crew was just a group of like. 77 guys. Who all had, you know, availability or a possession of.  You know what I mean? Gotcha. And some of them were for specific area cult of ours. Right. Let's call it that. Yeah. Land race to me. Land race to me as a Ms. Miller, right. Yeah. Pretty much everything is a cultivar. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there was like 77 guys, and they all got together and just started exchanging genetics. Yeah. You know what I mean? DJ, sure. Subbie, Eric.  Tony, In there, yeah All those dude, I think Texas kid. Oh, dude. Yeah, it takes kid a lone star. Yeah Long stars there.   I Don't think but he's he's old-school Mark is cool dude. He's been around forever. Yeah, wherever bro. I like that guy man. I like that guy a lot man He's been around a long time. Oh, yeah, man, but you know, it was um It was a lot of a lot of stuff going on with those guys At that point right when they first started it and it was about It was about the time that I got in there that that it started really taken off that they that Richard came into play and and Shebang and him went in together, right? but Yeah, it was it was really good man, and then cannabis world I started getting into cannabis world because cannabis world was a lot less Caustic and overgrown right it was way more friendly a lot more a really good people a lot of good stuff going on and I met a bunch of people through like elk slayer. I don't know if you know Also, oh Yeah, oh, yeah, dude, and that's when I ended up at crazy crusties cannabis co-op Which was very successful for me. Yeah, it sounds like it.  Did you and you made it out? Okay? Oh, yeah, I was I all my plants were accounted for I have four that didn't have the right tags, right? So they chopped down four of my plants out of Like 70 77 not too bad they chopped down four of my plants man, and it was it was beautiful really we're all you know five-pounders Dude, it was beautiful and it was all my own stuff right it was a preservation Rays The purple blockhead Oh, yeah, all my stuff that I bred man. It was it was beautiful, but Let's get back to the parties we were gonna talk about on cannabis world. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah some of these parties, right a really good friend of Russell, let me let me tell you how I met So I met I got I got the I got the UK cheese I was one of the first in the United States to get the UK cheese So he brought it in that was like source. He sourced it somehow, right? No, he didn't no, no, no, he got he got it from me Oh, he got it for me. So I got it from Optimus Prime, okay We won't we won't do we won't do first names right but I got it from Optimus Prime who got it from Okay, what was his name? He was out of Canada man. He's a He's an English dude who was up in Canada vision. Yep. There's a theater. Exactly. No friends of them So he sourced it through vapor vapor got it He was in Nova Scotia and he carried it all the way across Canada to visions To visions little commune. Yeah, yeah over over in BC. Yeah, and so he sent it vision sent it to Optimus Prime and then Optimus Prime sent me it sent it to me along with the vision tie. Oh, you got to read that It was really good. It was really good. It was really good.  Oh, yeah, it was crazy, right?  Yeah. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care, man I just started giving it out, right? Yeah, so then Elk Slayer Comes to me and tells me a bro. You gotta you gotta get you gotta let me get that strain man You gotta let me get that strain and don't give it to this other guy. Yeah. Well, the other guy his name was Danimal oh god, yeah Yeah, bro, so it was his name was Daniel. I could see why he was a little animal. Don't give it to Daniel Don't you dare, right? I can tell you that whatever. I'll give it to whoever the hell I want to yeah Yeah, you're doing some research on Daniel, right? Yeah, and but I saw I gave gave that right because I yeah, you're the best I love you man. I love you. So I did research on Daniel and found out Daniel was a scammer, right? Yeah, so then I Meet Danimal up in Oakland. I'm going up to Oakland to the the third floor up there On Broadway gonna pick up some Pick up some strains from turtle up there. Yeah, and Remember turtle? No, I don't know him, but I know the name. Oh, yeah, he's bomb, man. Um So I'm going up there anyway, and so I have the cheese And I have east coast sour diesel Early source of that that sour too. Oh, yeah, so I had two separate plants, right? Yeah, and So Daniel starts telling me a story, right? The story is not even his story, bro.   So here's the cheese Yep, he took that back He grew it out. He traded this east coast sour diesel to a bunch of people as cheese all you get the cheese, right? And got clowned And came back at me on on campus world and was like, bro, what is this ago?   I love it. You get clowned. And so everybody was like, oh, that's that's that's classic, dude That's how I do Clowns.  You got clown so hard, right? And it was hella funny. That's how I made right? Yeah. Yeah So, you know, we're we're fast friends at that point Well, Elclay are getting mad that we're using this first name Yes, no, probably not. Okay. I just want to make sure because I don't know Nobody nobody will know nobody will know his last name anyway. Okay. All right. So getting together doing different stuff, right? And I'm I'm still not In that inner inner circle, right the click. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah And the main reason is because there's a couple of Rudy poops who just didn't like me. Yeah, they were mad at you probably from your your Previous posts about calling people out but whatever whatever their Rudy poops. It didn't like me, right? But uh Jake went to uh, Rosso It was having these Friday night parties. You know what I mean? Yeah um And you know said he wanted to you wanted to bring me to the party, right?  I love that guy bring him make sure you bring him so Jake said he was gonna bring me and this other guy, uh ed ed larkis Okay, he didn't like he didn't like me. We didn't we ended up becoming friends But he didn't like me and he was like no no, you can't bring him and Jake was like, yeah, okay, okay, whatever Yeah, brought me anyway brought me anyway, right? Yeah, so then I'm there at rosso's and now There's a rosso has a Friday night party and there's a saturday and sunday party at ncga's Okay, Ron. Yeah I'm sure you know it right, um, there's friday and saturday and sunday party at ncga's and it's a it's a meal, right? It's uh, yeah, yeah, it's a big get together man. Yeah, and uh And so, you know, I paid my money to go there as well So we're having a blast, bro. It's it's great great party. Enjoy it. Uh, there's some people there, right that, uh You know that I was happy to meet, you know and and it was it was all good, right? So that was that was the first year that I went there, man And uh, I met a lot of good people man a lot of really good people But the second year is when things started getting interesting So we go to we go to rosso's party, you know, it's kind of it's like, uh, it's a cup But it's not really a cup. You know what I mean? Yeah, everybody knows everybody knows who strains or what? Is this the nugs and jugs? No, dude, we'll talk about nugs and jugs. Okay. Okay. I didn't know if that was the same thing. Yeah Yeah, no, that's icy mag. Okay.  Yeah, and who else was any who's probably there? Yeah, his wife um I think dj short was there that year and uh Who's the guy who did uh the canna bible? Oh jason king jason king jason king. He was there as well, right? And they're all you know, good nice guys, right My buddy francis was probably there. Have you met francis not so done? Maybe maybe I think he was there that year So uh, so I had met eddie multiple times before that right out of this farm in uh In late, you know, I had met eddie that multiple times before that right and so so he knew me. We weren't friends, right?   Oh, wow, and he gave me a They're still they they he was still messing with with the purple haze At that point, right? Is he still alive? I don't know now. That was a while. That was a long time ago, right? Yeah, but uh, he gave me a derivative right a phenotype Of the purple haze, which wasn't like it didn't grow like the purple haze. It had the same flavor. You know what I mean? um Similar color, you know what I mean? Yeah, but it just wasn't the same, right? Yeah, so he gave me that told me here You can use this you can read with it. Uh, don't give it away Once you're done reading with it killing. I was like, yeah, all right, no problem. So I used it um to go across uh To go across the grapefruit haze that I'd gotten from turtle beautiful grapefruit haze man that I'd gotten from turtle right and then made a that that's what I made the gerbil haze out of but uh I brought the the stuff that I had grown out This you know derivative phenotype of this purple haze To this party And so we're smoking it jack walks by and he goes what the hell are you smoking? Yeah, I'm like, bro. This is you know, this is a phenotype of the purple haze. He's like, I knew it I knew it. I knew that was the purple haze. I could smell it. That just that just like got my vibes going He got me. Oh my goodness. So when he sits down next to me, you know what I mean? And me and jack are sitting there.  And he turns to me And he stuffs the pipe right in my mouth, right?  You are and so I take a big hit man. I'm like, yeah, bro Nice pipe. Yeah. Yeah. So he gives me the pipe. He gives me his pipe And then I roll a big fatty joint of the purple haze So we pass it around and it goes around the table. There's a bunch of guys around the table Inspector was at the table as well. CSI humble and we pass it around the table and it goes around And it's a thumb. So, you know, it makes it around easy one first time Goes around the second time and this stuff when you get down about halfway, bro It was that it was that type of weed that that that half of the joint would just turn black, right?   Yeah And he doesn't listen to me.  He had some some cannabis church with eddie. All right. I don't I don't know what his name was But he was taking care of jack. You know what I mean?  We take him in the house.    I'm still I'm still all used to like bro.  No, no That is just not even funny, man killed him with haze killed him with the haze, man So we're sitting around right and we're still at the same table and There's a good story at that time The meadow perps I brought so what ended up happening was the meadow perps had gotten stolen from jack From eddy leps It was actually jason king's string Yeah, Francis gave it to him Okay, okay. Yeah, so so it had gotten it got to Eddie leps eddy leps was supposed to keep it under wraps not let it get out period not give it away And somebody that was working with him stolen. Yeah And so then Inspector got it. All right. Several other people got it Um eddy knew that it got stolen And so Inspector gave it to me And I had drawn it out and so I had it out to my pocket as well And inspector was like, don't bring that out.  You know me. I ain't scared I'm gonna break this out. I'm gonna roll it fatty. You're gonna smoke it Right here right now. Yeah, so I did it.  Yeah, right and smells it It looks over at the table at us like you motherfuckers And I'm like What yeah, yeah, so then they knew it was me who busted it out because I already knew that I was a rabble rouser right, so Eddie lep is maybe 40 feet away And in the distance they walk over to Eddie Start talking to him about it. He looks over. He's all mad dog in us at the table. Yeah walks over. He's like, who got that out of me? That was me That was me You know that it's out there. You know, it's it's in the wind. There's nothing you're gonna be able to do about it, bro Let's just get over it about it Just just you know release release the karma, bro release the karma And he's one of those type of dudes, you know what I mean? Everything's karma to eddie.  I'm like, bro This is no snitch. It's no snitch sound man. Yeah. Yeah, come on.  I go. I agree. I agree, bro But it's out there.  I released the the bad karma on that strain Whoever's got it You can do whatever they want with it. Blah blah blah.  Walk in the house And eddie's sitting on the couch and he calls me over. He's like, come on over here. Kendall. Come here sit I respect you for that man. I respect that you brought that out. Nobody else wanted to they were, you know, they were Thinking that, you know, it was just going to cause them problems. I'm like, hey, I'm ready for it, bro I don't mind. You know what I mean? It's better to be, you know, out in front and take the punch Then, you know, just continue to duck and hide, right? So he's like, I respect that man. That's good. That's good.  I got this stuff.  He goes, yeah, the body purifies it man and makes it even purer and stronger So the next day when you do it, you just enter the cosmos and just fly through the universe and you know, just it's beautiful It's just beautiful Okay, that's what we're gonna do We're gonna drink our own pee, man. No problem.  I believe it. He was dead serious, man Well, yeah, I just Did you drink your pee? I don't know I'm not down for ayahuasca.  That was far enough for me I'm not into it either. I don't anything I have to puke to enjoy. I'm not I'm not into it Exactly and people try to get me to do DMT even this day But I'm like No, no, I'm nuts enough dude. I don't need to I don't need that. Yeah, I'll do some mushrooms. Yeah, I can handle those I'll do some shrooms. I'm not even down for acid anymore, man. I mean, I chewed a lot A lot of times man.  I just I've been I've done stuff and like I know my brain and it's just I I see it.  I don't need extra I agree. Yeah, I'm not into that man. Yeah, I mean that you know, that was a that was a good party That was a that was a very eventful party. Obviously, right?   Yeah, what does that smell like to you? My wife looks at him and my wife is up.  He's like what? Weed smells like weed And he just he he got sour, bro. He got oh, I bet he did. Oh, he got salty right away, right? You didn't everybody everybody at the table because we're at this this like 20 foot long table, you know, and this is what ncga had the party with the 20 foot long table And then you had jars everywhere You know of everybody's weed Right He was like at that time right and a lot of the guys that were growing there. Uh, they were growing with, you know, gromor Gromor 2020 Right and dude, I mean, there's no Come on, man. Yeah smoking cardboard, right? Let's go.   So you'd open my jar and that she would just slap you in the face. Yeah, you know what I mean?  People are grabbing buds. You know what I mean? Grab another bud put your side taking that home with me, right? So now my jar is empty Right and people are like, hey, your jar is empty. I'm like, I take that jar Bring another jar because I brought, you know, I brought a box of jars of each one Yeah, put that put that thing there People are getting butt sore, bro People are getting butt sore.  Yeah People are looking at you. You know what I mean? Like you're the day They walk up to me. They don't want to confront.  Because they know they're going to get the answer. They don't want to hear But they'll come to me later and come up to me later and be like, hey, man Why'd you pass my joint? I'm like, bro That thing had a rock hard ash.  Yeah, well, yeah, I use you know, I use blue stuff. I'm like Use blue stuff. That's what you get man. Yeah, you know, I'm not trying to diss you man I'm sure you make plenty of money I'm sure you make plenty of money, but I'm not that's not what I do.  Yeah Oh, I mean, I got I got clpd and emphysema already. You know what I mean? Yeah, I need more I can imagine if I would have been smoking everybody else's weed at those points Probably be dead by now, right? But yeah, just you know, looking at some of this some of this bud that was going around dude.  Yeah, it was horrible and smelling smelling. It was even worse, right? I bet what what are you smelling?  Yeah, that's my weed right there that's going around right there. Yeah Well, how do you flush and in my mind?  Yeah, you know It really flushing is a misnomer. You don't flush a plant, right? Yeah, you'll allow a plant to use what's contained within You know within the flower available resources within the root zone, right? You can't flush a plant Yeah, it's a misnomer, but you know, listen to these guys talk about what they did. It was funny and you know like so That first just to go back to the first party that I went to It was uh me Elk Slayer and inspected gt, right and and Elk Slayer actually Coaxed inspector out of hiding Because inspector had never gone to any of those. That's right. Yeah, I could see that fourth generation guy And he was real real under didn't do any of that type of stuff. Nothing, right?  Yeah, I love it. It's great. I can't wait. We're gonna have a blast tonight I can already tell we're gonna have so much fun And elk slayer was the same way elk slayer.  And so then after the party we leave kind of early, right?   Oh, I bet dude, right? And i'm like, so did you did you hear what this one guy said about how he does it?    Always No No, you don't now. Yeah, there are some new methodologies. Obviously, bro. Sure. I mean with the advent of led and Right, some of the different things that we're doing now that people are doing now. Sure. There's new methodologies. Absolutely All right, but back then bro. No, yeah Now you're just growing regular style og style and yeah, it's not it's not happening that way. Definitely not happening that way, man But yeah, it was um, it was definitely a trip being exposed to You know personally to some of these Rock stars the pot stars. Absolutely. It's like when I met ed rosenthal, right?  And you know, I walked by this guy, you know over and over again and he'd be like nice shirt nice shirt Nice shirt. Yeah, and and then he calls me over he goes. Hey, man. I'm ed rosenthal's personal assistant I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, I'm ed rosenthal's personal assistant He was and nobody had a personal assistant. Yes. Yes. He had a personal assistant So So He's like, you want to meet ed? I go, I met ed before bro. Yeah He goes, no, this would be personal bro. You can come up to the house and meet ed and and it'll be great It'll be great. You'll love it, man So i'm like, all right fine, man So I put together a couple of ounces of some, you know Preservation haze and gerbil haze, right that grew organically um took him up there and uh, he takes me out ed is sitting around the table with uh Brett from apothecary. Yep. Brett Bogue. Yeah, I know Brett and I knew Brett already from before, right? Yeah, up in uh, up in Mendo and uh this guy Jim who puts on um The Seattle hemp fest This guy has like Seven foot dreads, man. Okay I don't know.  I'm like, yeah It's a pretty good weed, right? You know, I think it's okay You know and by this time I had not only knew how to grow but I had learned how to consistently and perfectly cure That's so important, bro. Yeah. Well, that's what I that's what I learned from the og's at at overgrow More than anything was out to dry and cure properly how to not screw up a good grow That dude It was head and shoulders because I mean literally I went to I went to one of the first things that I did with them What wasn't one fancy ages party or anything, right?     I'm like, bro What am I gonna say? I don't want to I don't want to break it out. Teach me A lot of people do not have that ability to self-assess their weed. It's true So then there were there were a couple of guys sitting around and these are, you know, og's old guys, right? And they're like, bro, I'll I'll teach you what's going on man.  Well, I mean, it looks good It's it's growing.  So I bust these ounces out with ed Put them on the table and you know before ed can even reach them Brett snatch is one of the bags, right? Opens it up.   He brought it for me. I'm like, I brought it for everybody. Yeah So he's got the other bag in his hand He's like, what is this one? It was a preservation ace And I told me to be real careful with that one that one is aptly named lobster stocks Because it is so racy. It'll make you feel like your eyes are out of here I love that. I'll tell you another story in a minute about the lobster stocks, right? So so it is like, oh, I like that. I like that man And I'm like, you don't need it. You don't need to grab any buds out of their edges Give these guys each a bud because whatever's left is yours. It's all yeah. Yeah. I brought this for you So he's like, all right. All right So then we're conversing and talking right and and ed starts, you know, tells me that You know when I leave I can have any book in his little his little storeroom of books, right?   Then I went in and you know how to respect I took a bunch of his books, right? They're still up here on my shelves That's awesome. I haven't read them. I haven't even cracked them, right?  Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah, I know a little story about that The lobster stocks, right? Yeah, so it's a preservation haze and it's um G13 hash plant Not the 88 not the 88 g13 ash plant. Gotcha. Okay, not the one indian guy got yeah Indian guy had was was derived from the original G13 ash plant, right? And this I got from clips. I don't know if you remember clips reader clips. Yep reader clips, bro You did a lot with the pacific g13, right? Yeah Yeah pacific is g13. Yeah, um, so I got that uh and cross that with this, uh This um Preservation haze or what was the haze?   It was wild. Yeah, it was stupid, man.  I didn't even want to smoke it, right? So I was getting rid of it to some people and one of my buddies in selenus He uh, he bought some pounds of it And uh, he had him just he had a nice little shop right a t-shirt shop And uh, one of his buddies comes in a veterano, right? We're talking og og mexican, dude Old school, uh used to be in orteño, you know, I mean socks up past his kneecaps, right? Yeah, that's that's my kind of person. Oh, yeah And so so he uh He rolls up a nice size joint and they're smoking it.  That's what this veteran.  Hey, I could smoke anything boy smoke. Yeah, I smoke shirms. I just want anything.  He smokes the whole joint, right? Yeah. Fuck. Yeah.  He stops at the stop time He's waiting for that motherfucker to turn green Right Stop signs don't turn green, bro.   I think they they put something in the wheel Yeah, oh man, I don't know what it is.   I'm not to put a warning on that, man.   But yeah, yeah, I there's been times where I felt like doing that But I stayed in the little ball that I was in, you know Yeah, I didn't I didn't like this weed, right? I mean it to me. It was like it was just beyond.com Totally beyond.com. No reason to go to that area because you already know where it's at, you know what I mean You already know what's up with that area.  I know I know I know I still have thousands of beans. Well, what I'm what I'm gonna do man is like I told you we talked about Um, I'm gonna start doing some breeding here soon.  I bet dude so much old school stuff man Things, you know, and we'll see, you know, I got a I got a pretty good methodology for popping them So, you know, if you have a if you have a good methodology for popping old seeds I mean, I don't really want everything to be hyper sterile As sterile as possible like some people like adding in like beneficial bacterias and stuff other popping seeds I'm the opposite.  It was a beautiful place for people to get together Overgrow and cannabis world man And on that fateful day in 2006 when I woke up And clicked on the site and it didn't come up And then I put out some feelers and people told me and went down I cried I bet dude. That's that's a family. That's that's your place People don't understand who don't have a tribe who don't have a fucking tribe and weren't like in those early on days online days where where not everyone in the world was online So it was it was a camaraderie between people who understood that kind of community and tribe So, yeah, that's That's that's that was a lot for a lot of people. I was just lurking just beginning to lurk in 2006, you know It took a It took a couple months for even even a small amount of us to find each other, right? And it was like on icy mag Was on icy mag, right because icy mag was just starting.  I think they they kicked off right It was the first I think Farmer was already was already going to I think yeah, I don't know on that one There was nobody they didn't have any they didn't have a Very big member base. Yeah, and they mean And it was funny too because I started off at icy mag, right and then Uh gypsy had heard of me, right?  You're welcome here. Of course But you know, let's let's keep it civil and blah blah blah and I was like, you know problem No problem, man. You got it.      I still like the farmer, right?   I do. I think that's I think that's incredible, man. Like, uh Talking about icy mag, right? Yeah Nugs and jugs, bro And that was a blast. So I went to the Santa Cruz nugs and jugs, right? Yeah, and uh, it was great, bro There was a lot of guys there Uh Who tossed it, huh? Who threw it the the original nugs and jugs in Santa Cruz, you know, that was Joe schmo Joe schmo and uh What was her name outcast outcast Elaine she just passed she just yeah, Joe schmo and outcast, right? I love those guys, man. I miss Elaine, man She was so sweet and I wanted to do an interview with her But she was passing like some cancer over time and I didn't want to Waste some of the last time she had with her family on an interview. But goddamn. She's a wonderful woman Yeah, but they threw uh, they threw that nugs and jugs up in Santa Cruz, right and bro It was great. So it was a bad was a blind cup Right. It was a blind cup and it was a you know, there was a lot of people there, man It was uh, who else was there the guy who uh, who found the white chrome chrome hillbilly on pcp I can't remember his online name, but it's one of the guys we were talking about earlier.  And so they had a blind a blind, um Cup.  And it was supposed to be an indoor contest My group was outdoor, right?   You can't blame it. It's just all gas Yeah, but it was good. I mean, and especially because it was early on for bubba. It's a it's a great cut. Yeah It was just all gas, but I was all happy, right? And so then, you know Uh Hillbilly on pcp and my other buddy the guy the no name Um, they they knew that it was outdoor, right? So they chrome so they chrome But I showed him what I brought and they're all like that that one that one Yeah, put that one in there, right?  Because people think outdoor is not as good as indoor Of course. Yeah My gross on mine.  It's not yeah It's not the same way and I got a lot of my indoor stuff to to do a fade as well because I started Reducing the time, you know what I mean? I let it get to like that that's six and a half seventh week and I start reducing the time by like five minutes Yeah, I mean five more minutes.  They like shoulder light hours at the end Some of the things that I do with my sativas too, right to keep them from herming or acting real stupid Is you take and instead of slapping them into 1212 you reduce the you reduce the time Yeah, you know over a couple of week period, right? You just keep reducing it And then give it to that 12 12 period That's great advice. I mean most sativas even if you get it down to a 14 And then just take it down an hour after that, you know what I mean an hour one week and then an hour the next week I'm sure it's going to increase your 12 to 14 week flower time But I mean if you're going if you're growing a true tie, you know what I mean Yeah, you better have patience a lot. I give it a lot in going. How was that one? How was that one?   I'm young Lee.   You know what I mean?   It was incredible There's a lot for the people who don't know if I remember correctly and this is the story passed down late years on So maybe correct me if I'm wrong. It was grown by a family in vietnam for a period of time and bred and then made its way here Yeah, but d we d we'd a lot We'd a lot. I didn't know we'd a lot. Use an og in uh vietnam In vietnam d we That's wild man. Does any of that stuff exist still do you think that the lot of stuff? You'll find crosses You're not gonna you're not gonna find the original de la That's too bad. That's yeah Sounded do you remember the smells or any of that from the de la? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. It was uh, it was real. It was real Not it wasn't piney. It was kind of kind of sweet A little bit a little bit sweet But it was more along the lines of like uh, yeah, what what what terpene would I call that? Because it wasn't like piney It wasn't terpene or It's kind of hard to describe to be honest to be honest I've heard it Is it had a little bit of it was sweet. It was a little sweet to it. Um a little savory You know what I mean? Yeah, not like not like meat. You know, I mean I've had plenty of strength They were like meaty, but it wasn't like meat. It was a combination It was a combination later on people said to lot was like dead meat That was the the one description. I was like It didn't make sense for a tie to be dead meat So the savory I could get It was it was like savory sweet, you know, it was an interest. It was an interesting Combination there in man, but it was really good Getting back to that nugs and jugs, right? Yeah So we did the contest.  Everything was great, man and uh all of a sudden The owner of the property. It was like an airbnb before airbnb. Yeah. Yeah, the owner of the property comes busting in No, and he's like I do not approve of this Oh my god I was going he's having a fit, right and the strippers don't even care.  No, it was the elite.  I'm serious. You guys all get out of here Just leave I'm calling the police and we're just laughing it until he finally got on the phone Oh, yeah, that's not the phone and was calling the police and then at that point everybody was like We all took off killed the nugs and jugs.  It was good.  Yeah, that was first, right? But yeah, it was it was it was it was a it was a good party, man. And then uh, you know that that That got me in an ic mag because I wasn't you know, I wasn't that prolific at ic mag. Um Because uh the cabana Right, right. Do you see the one who created it originally? Uh, well, it was d-man and skitty Yeah, yeah D-man and skitty right cherry slider. That's how I remember skitty. Yeah, it's kitty's cherry slider and the choco d That's right choco diesel. Yeah, so When the cabana started, right? Everybody was like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna start a site, right? We're gonna we're gonna get this going And so skitty approached me because he was super impressed with The moderator Moderation and the moderated yeah And because I had I'd laid out, you know, not only did I point out each aspect of the moderation situation but I also laid out a a um Scenario, you know what I mean? I laid out a means by which I thought that a site would be successful You know what I mean without all the bullshit, right?   We uh, you know, we we did a bunch of stuff and and it was it was a good site for a while, right?  You know what I mean?   Yeah, you know a lot of people that were uh a part of different, um Social dynamics, you know what I mean? They started really pushing their agenda on the site pushing people into corners And so a lot of people started leaving and then, you know, I started going back to being kendo and started calling them out Started talking hella smack, right? So then I got my first band and uh You know, it was just a short band. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah They even removed the whole limiting your you know, your your visibility. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just started banning people and then uh They You know, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. You know what I mean? A lot of backdoor stuff You know what I mean?  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff There's a lot of stuff going on there, right? Yeah. Yeah Through personal private messages, you know what I mean? And everybody was doing it. Everybody was doing it, right? There were some people that were way more successful than others. Yeah, and they were doing really really well well certain people who were of higher renown Got butthole because those certain people were doing really really well Yeah, doing better than that cutting into their sales as they saw it So they called them out, right in open forum In open forum. Yeah. Yeah, which is to me is kind of snitchy. Oh Not kind of bro. Yeah. I mean it is. Yeah, it's snitching. You're you're dry snitching somebody, right? It is dry snitching. Exactly. And so so You know me I came right out and I was like no, no, no, no, no, that's not right, man All you guys are doing the same thing and you're trying to call this person out saying that they're you know They mean not right for doing it. They're putting everybody at risk blah blah blah. You do the same thing Don't even try it. Yeah. So then I got I got a six month ban Yep, hang big fat ban, right? So then at that point, you know, they mean a bunch of people left Yep, you know what I mean a bunch of people left at that point, right by the time I got back Six months later because I didn't post I just went in looking at private messages By the time I got back it was it was already starting to turn into a ghost town. Yep, and uh So then uh, you know, and I'll just be I'll just be honest, right?  Oh, yeah, and so, you know, I would tell people at this point, you know If you if you're gonna be on the cabana be real careful, right?    And then good reason to ban you know, they painted themselves into a corner, right?  You know a lot of people don't want to be burned, but Every single forum nowadays has a seed bank attached to it and that comes with agenda And that's I mean, yeah, I don't So so back in the day, right? I wasn't into buying seeds, right? In fact, honestly, I've never bought a seed It seems goofy like from your point of view if you're making cg9 to do it You had access to the cultivars you want the fuck's the point. Well and and and I mean in In the way that we did things in the past, right? I I so I I started a A campaign called the great being giveaway, right? And literally bro, I gave away 150,000 seeds Just gave away, you know, I mean and and I did it anonymously. Nobody knew it was me All right, that's uh, johnny johnny ganja seed Was my handle. Yeah, and I would I would put up a post and say this is my garden, right?  You know what I mean? No pictures just strains.  You don't have that many strains going yada yada yada But other people would be like, wow, that's interesting. I think that one and that one and that one This sounds really good. Those sound like some really good strains and it was all stuff It was being donated from all the the the readers. Yeah, I mean all kinds of different stuff, man And so when people would say that I'd be able to send them a private message and be like, hey, bro, check it out I'm this is just that, you know, this is a ruse.   You know what I mean? Yep, and it was like a dollar Yeah, it's perfect. Yeah. And so then, you know, they might ask for three three strains and I would send them 10 strains You know what I mean? 100 beans or more.  So please pass some of these beans forward on to someone that you know that's growing You know what I mean? So we get it. We literally gave away 150,000 seeds just gave away. Yeah, you know, I I didn't tell anybody nobody really knew until my buddy No, good names left figured it out that it was me Right. He was one of the first people that I gave beans to And and he was like he he came out and and ratted me out You know what I mean? Because I didn't want yeah, I didn't want anybody to know, right?  Oh, I gave a bum $5 the day Here's the video of me doing it. Yeah, here's the picture. He's a video of me doing it, right?   Yeah, that's that's that's that's how I was raised, right? by my you know, I wasn't raised by my grandma, but my grandma would tell me about how When the great depression was around and there were all the bums and they lived near the railroad tracks And so the bums would be on the trains and they would you know get off the train And they would just make a big huge pot of beans You know what I mean? My my grandma's family would make a huge we're talking a huge pot of beans and Just give it out to the bums until it was gone. Yeah, I mean and feed them She's like that's what you're supposed to do But yeah, I mean that you know that just you know giving out those seeds is just an example of how we used to do it, right?   Well, it goes back. That was that was docks.  I said, I'm so sorry I did that. I had no right to do that You know, I was a different guy back then But you know, they were they had the albert walker and him and a couple guys that he had given it to We're talking about it on the forum out in open forum, right?   That's just straight bullshit So then I got the albert walker and I whored it out Yeah, buddy And you know me and doc didn't get along for a while, right? And then we saw each other at the emerald cup and we saw each other at the emerald cup and You know made up. I apologize big time. I said, I'm sorry, bro. However, I can make it up to you. Let me know Yeah Blah blah blah and he was like, you know what this long time ago, man It's all good. You know, don't worry about it. Now, you know, we're you know, we're over it You know, I wouldn't I wouldn't say we're friends, right? I mean, we don't call On the phone all the time, but I got his number. I could call him anytime and you know it uh, you know, I I I enjoy that because there are a lot of people that I've uh, I've I've apologized to For calling him out, you know what I mean? But even then a lot of people are like, you know what? I I deserved it. I deserved it. I like, you know what? It wasn't I shouldn't have done it.  You know for me. I get uh, I get way more satisfaction out of the minds that I can Can alter or get into the into the line of how to think as opposed to what to think Yeah, you know what I mean? Because that's more important than anything, right? How to keep people how to analyze how to use their their critical thinking skills. Yeah I mean, how many people do that nowadays, bro? Um, I'm not gonna lie to you man.  And you know, someone could give me a little blowback. You know what I mean? But You know, these are these are things that uh, You know other people probably could get um some good uh some good knowledge from That's the whole reason we started this and you know, we get bloke One thing that that my co-partner didn't realize was that by digging into cannabis history just the genetic side Just looking at the genetic side and trying to start putting some of these pieces together He didn't realize how much blowback he was gonna get because from his aspect He's just a historian, you know, but you're cutting into agendas and money streams things that people have attached deeply to their Their lives and character that aren't true And it's all coming out in the wash and That upsets people One of my favorite old sayings It's a cd business, you know, the organ market has been pretty tough, right? So yeah at four farms I've already liquidated one. I got two on hold right now I got a fourth one that uh, I'm doing some things with uh, it is the devil's lettuce cannabis company So I'll be doing I'll be doing that out here in the organ market as well um I'll be doing some seeds, right? And uh You know, I'm looking to uh I'm looking to expand my um my consulting business big time. Yeah big time, bro. I'm uh, I'm doing a lot of consulting I'm in Puerto Rico, Oklahoma Um, I've done a lot of other stuff here locally And I'm getting ready to blow up my LinkedIn and that's going to be kendo kendo the green wizard um ktgw consulting And I'm gonna blow that up now. So people are looking and people are looking for uh, you know a a A Very good consultant Someone who can bring in the right help bring in the right experts for your environmental for your You know for your lighting I know all the people for your procurement of uh equipment Um, help you to hire the right people to man your grow to be lead growers I've been very very successful taking um failing Large enterprises large enterprises. We're talking 400 lights from uh from failing to Making you know millions a year So absolutely brother. Thank you man. I appreciate you appreciate your show. I want to come back on man I'll you know, I'll write up some stuff man, and and we can we can chop it up again Please do dude. 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