Once again, Daily Tech News show remains a Star Wars spoiler free zone. So if you're worried about that rest easy Hear that Veronica. Mm-hmm Okay, John. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right But it was really awesome So you liked it that's good that's all I'm saying that's not a spoiler to say I know It was fun. Let's all say bland things about Star Wars because we can't say anything else You know, I really enjoyed it The fact that it was a movie that took place on a screen in a theater And with that I'm going away. All right, good show. We'll see you in a little bit All right, here we go. We're gonna start the old ye old audio 200th of 1% of the Daily Tech News show were brought to you by me If you would like to decrease my already meager equity go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News from Monday December 21st 2015 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Veronica Belmont DTNS contributor and host of dear Veronica on engadget. How are you post Star Wars opening weekend Veronica Belmont? Oh, it feels good man. It feels good. I don't have to think about it any more spoilers cannot hurt me Not and there will be no spoilers on this show just you guys know It is a spoiler-free zone But that is the best way to arm yourself against them is actually John Schieffer filmmaker and CEO of brand X Industries is here as well. John. Thanks for joining us. Of course. Yeah, it's a pleasure I love the show and I'm a big fan of yours personally. Oh, well, thank you I am a fan as well of algorithm, which we'll be talking about in a little bit after we do our headlines and John Jump in on if you have anything to say about the headlines when we're going along. Just just pipe right on up Don't be afraid. I got a lot to say so awesome. I'd like to hear that. Let's take a look at them Microsoft will buy Ray Ozzie's Boston startup taco for an undisclosed amount according to fortune taco specializes in smartphone based work group Collaboration it sort of lets team members know when each other are online Can do things like retain audio and notes from meetings and improves voice quality which For people who actually talk over their phones is an important thing technology will live on in Skype in an email response to Tech crunch or I'm sorry to fortune Ozzie said he would not rejoin Microsoft But taco San Francisco Seattle and Boston teams will Ozzie was CTO and then chief software architect at Microsoft between 2005 to 2010 he first joined Microsoft when the company acquired his computer assisted Collaboration startup called the groove networks. He also worked on Lotus way back in the day so he is a talented programmer and Once again somebody who made some money off Microsoft. There you go. Yeah I have a feeling this is going to be their attempt at a slack killer at some point It sounds like they're making Skype, which is already something that is very, you know Has that name brand recognition has that adoption throughout the world as a communications platform to then go into Collaboration go into file sharing go into communication. I think it's that that would make sense to me at least It would be interesting to see Skype go in a slack like direction Actually, yeah, but then have that voice chat, which is something that slack doesn't currently Yeah, exactly if you if you took Skype and added slack to it then there's all kinds of possible That would ruin it because I don't want voice chat ever. I don't ever want to talk to human beings I just want to type to them. This is the exception in my week John are you the same because I'm the same as Veronica like I just don't want to talk I've resigned myself to the way that everybody else communicates I've noticed that everyone I collaborate with likes to communicate via a different method some email I like email just because it's a written record of our communication Some people like text some people like voice. I actually prefer one-on-one in person But that's not as easy to do around the world. So yay for Skype and to Google plus CBS's TV program 60 minutes showed portions of an interview with Apple CEO Tim Cook on Sunday Cook defended his stance against weakening encryption saying if you put a back door in that back doors for everybody The good guys and the bad guys adding quote. I don't believe that the trade-off here is privacy versus national security I think that's an overly simplistic view where America we should have both Cook also defended his company's overseas tax practices and the use of Chinese companies for manufacturing Now as somebody who's made a movie about hackers I imagine John you've given some thought to the idea of people building in back doors Tim Cook is I don't think Surprisingly, but maybe surprisingly and as often and as publicly he has done it been very staunch in his defense Against putting any kind of patch or backdoor or anything regarding encryption that his users can use Yeah, his his argument is absolutely right the moment you do that Anybody who stumbles across the back door is just going to hammer away and find the password if that's only a matter of time Apple is Steve Gibson Did an amazing podcast about the level of detail and specificity of the encryption on the iPhone using like completely different Circuit paths for encrypted stuff that never even goes through the central memory So Apple it has really done their level best to create a secure encrypted Thing and and basically the US is government is saying you should break your awesome thing for us so that we our jobs can be easier Which of course would fundamentally undermine their entire business Ebridge has posted the sad news that Toshiba will cut 7,800 jobs as part of a major Revitalization action plan. It's not gonna be very revitalizing if you lose your job Majority of affected employees work in the consumer electronics division Toshiba projects a four and a half billion dollar loss for the fiscal year ending in March Company was found to have declared 1.2 billion dollars in false profit a while ago and CEO He's out to knock a step down on July 21st 2015. That's a shame because they were killing laptops in the beginning. Yeah I I remember admiring some Toshiba devices quite a bit and they've been around for a long time They still make some good products But they're starting to divest themselves of a lot of this stuff Reuters reports Erickson and Apple have signed a seven-year patent license deal The deal will cover 2g and 4g technology used in Apple devices and ends the legal battle around payments between the two After the previous deal expired at the beginning of 2015 both companies have agreed to work together on developing 5g technology Yeah, all the G's. Yeah all the G's the Grand of patent fees per minute that Erickson will be getting all those G's that this has been a negotiating tactic a very brutal and Drawn out negotiating tactic by both parties Apple and Erickson here. So but it's it's good to see it settled Pew Research Center's latest survey of people in the US finds the percentage of residents with home broadband connections has dropped from 70% last year to 67% or last survey anyway to 67% same percentage the country had in 2012 actually so we are back to 2012 broadband penetration levels, however 13% of those surveyed our smartphone only when it comes to the internet and that is up from 8% in 2013 33% of those who don't have a home broadband connection site cost as the main reason also in the same study 15% say They have become cord kidders night cord cutters not kidders. Ah, you know, I was just kidding. I'm not canceling cable 15% say they have become cord cutters and 9% never subscribed at all So that's a total of 24% without cable or satellite television again It's got to be the smartphone thing right it's got to be that people are paying for smartphone data And they don't necessarily think they need to have their phone connected to a Wi-Fi connection when they're at home And they're still able to stream content and do all the things they need to do and that's a big That's a big savings at the end of the day if you're not paying that extra between 50 and 150 bucks a month for cable internet because you're already paying 100 bucks to 150 bucks for you know a data plan on your cell phone So I can see why potentially that could cause this this small drop. Yeah, I would agree with Veronica The composer I worked with in Scotland He has a broadband and a cell phone But he found that his cell phone connection was in fact faster than his broadband and he hadn't limited So that's most of the file transfers that we did were over his cell phone But that's purely anecdotal to the study. But if you look at broadband prices Sometimes to get LTE or better speeds Equivalent of you have to pay in the hundreds of dollars and a lot of people look at $40 a month Even with a data limit on their cell phone plan and then a hundred dollars to get faster broadband at home Just cut it out all together. You might as well just use the phone and I think this is kind of Maybe for some an unexpected avenue of competition that's happening where people can start to rely on a wireless connection Obviously somebody like me can't for for what I do here But the average user who's just like I just want to watch some YouTube and and surf the web Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing for our users like us. It's not feasible, but for most people it's a perfectly Functional solution. A lot of people just have internet at work They can just use their work connection to do things that are more, you know Data intensive and then you need to watch that flash video But that's those numbers are really interesting to me All right moving on Facebook giveth and Facebook taketh away Tech crunch notes and on Monday Facebook began to support live photos With support rolling out over the next couple of weeks to users of its iOS app Any user running iOS 9 will be able to view them and the Guardian notes Facebook has switched all video to html 5 Ending its use of flash to show video Facebook continues to support flash-based games because of course it does Because it makes money off flash-based games Essentially, but yeah, I html 5 has been talked about for years and years We probably were talking about it on buzz out loud back in the day I would not be surprised and and it's finally starting to conquer the universe here I read that Adobe even stopped developing flash. So it's officially. Oh, yeah, it's dead. It's totally dead They're maintaining it for people like I don't know people who make flash games for Facebook But they have taken it out of the name of their animation software and yeah, everybody's everybody's moving away from it The co-author of XML Tim Bray has suggested a new error code for webpages that have been blocked for legal reasons Instead of using a 403 error, which basically says that access is forbidden But doesn't give you any insight into why viewers of censored page pages would receive a 451 The internet engineering steering group has approved it for use though There's still a bit more work to be done to finalize it and of course developers They decide whether they're going to use these error codes or not when they configure their web servers But it is an option for a developer now to use love it. That is the coolest thing I've heard all day I don't know why between that error code and 1984 But maybe 1984 is this websites watching you. Yes. Yeah, there's someone else. There's a man in the middle of attack ongoing That's amazing such good ideas SP shared and submitted the engadget post from Sunday noting that the first website went online 25 years ago December 20th 1990 internally over at CERN public access was not allowed until the following August 6th 1991 but it's pretty cool. I think that's a gosh Yeah, a website websites couldn't even rent a car until yesterday. Yeah, well internally. They still won't until next August publicly They drive around CERN like I've always looked at that first public page as the anniversary of the web But it seemed like a lot of folks including SP shared and We're excited about this 25th anniversary and it is a milestone market, right? It's the first time a web page was ever put up for anyone else to access other than the people working on developing the web So that was an intranet. Yeah, I guess so I guess in a way it was But none on the internet on the intranet I guess tech crunches John Russell points out an interesting move by Canadian messaging app maker Kick that could be a sign of an emerging trend kick is buying blink BLI and K Blink is a maker of a chatbot about style so you can talk fashion with it on kicks platform Russell points out that several successful services are showing up on 10 cents We chat platform and even raising money without ever having a website or even their own app Just something that's on a platform So it's looking like messaging platforms may become the next app development platform at least for some companies Also, what did I say about bots? I'm really curious What the what the blink AI is going to do when it becomes self-aware? He's like this coat really isn't working for me. Just doesn't doesn't fit my Mac pro body Yeah, it just automatically locks your doors if it doesn't like the way you're dressed No, no You go back into the house and you change you are not leaving like that No, don't you know it's cold outside? I've ordered something from stitch fix for you. It'll be here shortly. There you go The telegraph reports Spotify premium will place RDO as the cars music partner in Europe, Australia and Hong Kong The service is free in the car But the account will not work outside of the vehicle existing premium Spotify accounts can be linked to that vehicle as well Yeah, I kind of it's almost a non-story. Tesla is swapping out their service providers RDO is going out of business as they are. Oh, yeah, it doesn't actually say Tesla anywhere in that blurb So thank you for bringing that up. Yes. It was Tesla being the car Since I was the one who wrote it wrong. I figured I I'd fix that As the car, you know the car I'm gonna rewrite it as my car since you have a Tesla in your family. Anyway, not my car Well, you know under California law it is I didn't sign a prenup. So whatever Yeah, that car is mine Europe, Australia and Hong Kong free Spotify That's awesome I'm kind of surprised they didn't just go Pandora in that case because it sounds like if an existing deal is already in place And if a lot of RDO got kind of subsumed into into Pandora that maybe it would just make sense to use Pandora But if you know popular public opinion is leaning towards Spotify as being the kind of go-to music service app at this point And that also makes sense and gosh, I am loving Spotify right now I never thought I'd say that but it is crushing it. I am very very happy subscriber My wife is a big Spotify fan as well John do you use a music service? I I didn't do Spotify because I'm friends with too many musicians who complain about the the number That Spotify gives them I signed up with Apple after Taylor Swift gave them a tongue lashing and they changed Because they are really supporting artists. Unfortunately. They're Radio generation like that. You type in the song and it generates a series of song song playlists for you doesn't work as well as I might hope but Just the ecstasy of getting access to the basically the entire world's music supply was kind of new to me Because when I was pirating music before I repented I Didn't not everything was there. Yeah. Yeah, that's true I I use Google music all access because I wanted to have a music locker online as well as The you know the subscription service that I could mix and match on playlists And and my wife works for Google, but she uses Spotify So it's just all a matter of taste and discovery and what you use it for I don't really use it as much for discovery Which apparently Spotify is much better for I like the sounds of stuff Pandora was amazing for discovery. Yeah Yeah, but then did you disclose that your wife works for Google? I did Did you hear that I heard you I didn't know if it was a disclosure It sounded like I'd said it. I you did say it. I guess I have to answer say disclosure. Yes saying the thing Yeah, I just like it when you say that you have to disclose it. I like that part You like it better when I just hold up a mug that says my wife works at YouTube Yes, yes, that's even better better. Yeah. Mmm. Delicious air coffee. It's just that count is written notification now Yeah, it does I think so we're legal Well, should that should hold up the court, right? Uh, I don't even think it's a legal issue, but I don't care I'm very happy that you guys are supporting the show in many ways one of them submitting stories And voting on them at our subreddit daily tech news show dot reddit dot com helps us figure out How to put the show together every day. So keep it up. We really appreciate it daily tech news show dot reddit dot com And that is look at the headlines All right, uh, of course John Schieffer as you can tell, uh, very well versed in technology Uh, and and somebody who keeps up on on the stories of the day, but he's also a filmmaker and, uh, made a movie called Algorithm, uh that you reminded me that we have had you on frame rate back in the day when I was doing that Show at twit and of course you've been on security now and you successfully have put out algorithm now It's available on blu-ray. It's available on the internet Tell us a little bit for people who don't know. What is algorithm? Uh algorithms basically the story of edward snowden if he hadn't fled the country How that that story might have gone? Um, and and if he wasn't working for the nsa It's it's the story of a of a hacker for hire who during a contract gig discovers Uh, that the government has a massive search engine that tracks everyone And how that goes down with his friends and fellow hackers Hmm, I would assume probably not well and it takes place in san francisco veronica So you'll see several things you recognize in there individual results may vary So john what made you want to make this kind of movie? originally, uh, uh college professor sociologist friend of mine and I were talking about how a lot of the tech guys were, uh bemoaning the lack of skilled Tech people in this country and how we have to import a lot of talent Even the tim cook Interview you mentioned said the reason that they work in china is that there just aren't enough skilled people to work in the factories So I thought well the best way to do that would be to make hacking cool again And to do that, uh, the most efficient way is to reach people where they're at which is via a tv show and a movie Then I began actually kind of listening and researching primarily again on steve gibbs and security now and just Got into the world and saw that there was, uh, uh, how How insecure everything actually is which was initially horrifying, uh, and then Because of an interview I did with uh, uh, the programmer larry wall who wrote pearl Got a real insight into the mindset of hackers and how they think about the world and just really started questioning The way we assume laws and and individual, uh, privacy rights and things like that And it really became fascinating and intriguing subject to me that that warranted Three years of my life So yeah, you took three years it came out when when did it officially release for people to watch? Uh, we did a 24 hour premiere on july 14th best deal day, uh, which did very well. It went kind of viral Uh, then we officially released on july uh, december 7th Of of which year 2014. Yeah That's important to note the year for people who who may be following these kinds of shows Um, tell us a little bit about your distribution methods though Because you took some different approaches to creating the movie and getting people interested in the movie And and letting people watch the movie A friend of mine when I was when I showed him the script and uh, and I wanted to start connecting with people friend of mine In la said, uh, you are trying to walk up mount everest with this and I said, uh, I you underestimate what i'm trying to do I'm actually trying to sprint up it We couldn't do the things that the studio did simply because uh, I wouldn't compromise the story Uh in ways that that they require there were no naked women, which they often require There were no explosions because hackers aren't super ninjas at least not any of the ones that I've met Uh, and and we couldn't afford famous people Uh, because I didn't have the connection. So we had to come up with a completely different model Um, and that was crowdfunding Barely enough to make the movie not enough to actually distribute it Uh, there was a generous donation after the fact that someone made that allowed me to fund distribution. Um And then we tried to take it to the standard venues and because it didn't have the the women explosions Super famous people it didn't have the famous exploding naked women. Yeah, right Um, no one wanted to buy it. Uh, no one wanted to distribute it. Uh, so we're like, well I don't want this thing to sit in a shelf and if we let it sit long enough to actually kind of Create a relationship with the distributor what'll end up happening is because it's about technology it will become a period piece real quickly Uh, so we could have made relationships with studios in in three to five years It would come out and then the iphone 5 would look like Kind of what it does today, uh, although I think it's beautifully designed but um But it looks like an iphone 5 and whenever I see it in a movie or a tv show I think oh, that's when that came out, right, right? And I do that with every computer I see I was like, oh, wow, well, they're using a mac classic I guess this is from the 1980s. Yeah um And so, uh, I talked to the producers and the actors and I was like, well We can't sell this thing to people. No one wants to buy it at the american film market which is an annual thing in Santa Monica and um What should we do with it and they're like, well, why don't we just I like I was like Are you okay with putting it on youtube because it's already After the july 14th release, uh It went like I said it kind of went viral and immediately was on every pirate site so We knew there was an audience It was a big audience and we were just like, let's just get it to them So we put it up on youtube which Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say I mean that's something I hadn't really considered when you're targeting that kind of audience that very tech savvy Potentially hacker audience there there's got to be some kind of expectation that it might get pirated Yeah, yeah, I mean that's not even the tech audience It could be just garbage and people are going to spread it. Um, just because somebody likes it somewhere um, the the the thing for me was uh, I assumed that because the tech audience is generally well funded that they would pay for it And they weren't paying for it. And I really got mad about it I got really really angry for like weeks and I said well This is the way the world is now. I just have to adapt And I came to the realization and this is fundamentally what led me to think about youtube even consider it Not the period piece stuff, but this this exact realization was that uh As a creator as a content creator I get to help determine What the world looks like I get to decide How things get spread and I realized that that I don't like the way Capitalism constrains things and that that people in Indonesia Have to wait six months and get substandard quality and and it's not affordable so that most people don't have access to it I realized that that the ideology or the idealism in star trek, which is actually how I referenced it in the blog post uh That the future could be free And that everything could be free and that I just had to come up with a business model to make that viable I realized that's the future I want and then I started kind of reverse engineering Well, how do we get there and I said well as a content creator it kind of starts with me and so what is So And that got picked up by the the pirate party international pirate party, which was A big deal. I I definitely I respect and I understand the idea of of giving content away But how do you create content if you don't have the resources to to do that? You have asked One of the hardest questions That I have spent the last year and a half trying to solve and I've come up with a really interesting solution That will be built into my next project We kind of just figured uh the the producers the actors and I that that Algorithm as good as it is. We're probably not going to make money on it. But that uh getting our names out there is as important And it has done that and to spare So we kind of figured this was a loss leader that said Uh Unlike many independent films, uh, it went in the black. It's in the black now So I'm going to be sending out royalty checks in the next few days So you didn't make money off of it, but you didn't know it is profitable. Yeah, exactly You didn't get rich off of it is what you're saying. No, no, no. Yeah, well Almost nobody. Well, here's the thing. There's like 50 000 independent films made a year And the ones that you hear about might be as many as 200 And even most of those don't make money So the idea of being profitable is kind of extraordinary getting rich is a much much smaller number So do we so do we need to wait until the next movie to hear what this business model is going to be? Are you keeping it under wraps? Are you still developing it? Uh, I if I've got a pretty good idea of what I would like to do. Um, but it's it's kind of nda right now Sure Just because I want to be the the thing is like we can't afford. I can't afford standard hollywood level press So I actually have to make legitimate news Yeah, and and and that requires being innovative You just made a movie about hacking so you know people in the audience are going to assume that that's what you mean by that I don't think that No, well, that was actually a really interesting problem I was like the the level of skill that the fans and followers of algorithm have Really limits the kinds of things that I can put out there and say can my fans do these things Facebook has like a call to action. Yeah, I was really afraid to press that button because I was like how could What can I possibly ask in in a way that this won't go wrong? Yeah, what am I going to get from this? Uh, oh, is it patreon is patreon your method because that's what we do the problem is that that that standard methods like patreon or crowdfunding campaign cannot Legitimately fund a hollywood level movie. I did the math. I made algorithm for The actual production budget was about six thousand dollars, which is crazy low Because everybody on it worked for free. I did the math on what it would cost if I had paid everyone Standard union minimums not even like rich hollywood, but just like blue collar hollywood And it would have been a seven hundred thousand dollar movie So you can't you can't get that kind of money on on patreon Rarely does it happen even on Kickstarter. Yeah So I And and what I'm planning now is a much larger project. So I I had to find another way to get Money enough so that people could be paid what they need a living wage Well, I am I'm very curious to see how you handle this problem Obviously, I I'm I'm dealing with similar problems myself and have my own ways of dealing with them But if you could give advice to a director or a writer who wants to make A computer oriented film a technology oriented film of any kind. What would you tell them? Uh, do the research, uh, just spend time learning about the world there is There are a hundred thousand stories out there From documentaries to narratives that can be told. I just barely scratched the surface I didn't I algorithm touches maybe 10 to 5 of what I learned just by researching for six months Um find podcasts read books follow people like you that talk about tech And just dig into the stories and find out what's behind them and the and you'll see a world that you don't like I didn't even have to make anything up Like the only thing I made up was that little can that that the main character sets near the house and even that's Even that the hackers have built for real now So, uh, the rest of it was like I can I can back up every single hack that that was done in there by a reference so research the stuff and, uh That research should naturally lead to amazing stories that I frankly want to hear and see Do you could do is it called can of worm? Like I call the can of worm. Yeah, because it was one can of one worm. It's just one. Okay, because it was a play on words Yeah, all right. I like it. I just wanted to make sure I was hearing it right. No, you were. Yeah, you got it, right? Uh, well folks, uh, definitely check out algorithm brandxindustries.com slash algorithm. Uh, you can watch it for free there, right? Yeah, yeah, it's it's available up on youtube. Um, there's The version on youtube is is the version we released on, uh, December 7th But the dp after that he wasn't kept in the loop and he's like Do you Think we should do a color correction before we released it? I was like Satsuki it's already been seen by a million people. It's kind of released now But we did another color correction and that along with several audio commentaries are available on the blu-ray Which is also for sale on the For on the website as well as uh, if you don't want to buy a physical disc You can actually download isos of the dvds NTSC and pal and the blu-ray if you have a very good connection Because 25 gigs is hard to download not the cell phone connection probably you could do it, but it's going to take a while Yeah Let's get to our pick of the day andy from connecticut, uh has a quick one for us He was looking for training materials for some comp ta certifications at his local library And found out that the library has a relationship with lynda.com He says I log into lynda lynda by the way via my library site to set up an account using my library card and voila Access to all the lynda training videos. I need for free totally cool service to my library and by lynda. I know right That's great. This is awesome. I I used to learn all of the software I need to know as does every professional. I know Andy says I don't know how prevalent this is but check your local library Before you plunk down any cash Because there may be a partnership there. So thank you, Andy Good good tip there It's not even a pick as much as it is like a handy helpful tint hint If you're if your local library takes part in that send your picks to us folks feedback at daily tech news show.com You could find more picks at daily tech news show.com slash picks john if uh, if you had to pick outside of algorithm A really good representation of hacking In movies or TVs Could you come up with one? Is there one that you look at and go? Yeah, that's that's a really well done version When I was uh pitching algorithm to the hacker conventions that it screened at it screened at uh, hopex Which is uh, 2600s convention and then another one in london. I said algorithm is the best hacker movie since war games Which was amazingly well done so well done that it actually changed legislation and freaked out congress And came up with terms like war driving Um, I love war games. I love sneakers. They were written by the same guy Uh, those are the best I've seen I've heard a lot about mr. Robot. I personally haven't seen it A lot of the hackers that I talked to love it um But war games and sneakers are my favorite by far Yeah, well and and all of those do a great job of Using the drama inherent in the technology rather than changing the technology to make it more dramatic That's exactly which by the way I and I am not alone in this I love the line where the agent in algorithm asks him to enhance the resolution and the guy responds Well, you can't do that. There's only the resolution I have. Yeah That was that was well done. Thank you. Thank you the guy that actually said that is a tv production guy And he's not saying the line. Yeah, that was his duty that we were filming in Jonathan wrote into us feedback at daily tech news show dot com said, uh, my guess to a reason why they don't Just put out the most popular search terms in browsers is because you don't type Uh in a separate box when you search He's like I find that I rely on the pop-up history of the search bar And we'll often try to quickly arrow down in the list to catch the website that is on the top and often I fail and I end up at a google search page result I know it's funny to think that there are many people searching for how to find facebook And i'm sure there are people that still do that, but I doubt it's enough to be make it the most popular term I don't know man I think it's probably it probably buffs up the results a bit But i'm still thinking a lot of people are just searching facebook also facebook Like if you're looking for some information about facebook that will make that search term go up in the list too So it doesn't have to be looking for the actual site Mark writes that the main driver for walmart and others to add a point of sale payment alternative Is mostly about gathering more personal information and not about cutting costs This is a new way to gather more information out the customer at the time they are making a purchase to be used and then For building deeper customer profiles in terms of saving money They can cut those same costs today by acting as one or more of the many parties involved in the creditor debit process flow That has nothing to do with a mobile payment alternative particularly other than timing People keep talking about target and walmart and others coming up with an alternative Mobile payment solutions primarily as a means to save money You even did this multiple times on friday show But the mobile payment impetus is really about gathering more customer data And if they lose to apple and samsung and others like that they see it as a major lost opportunity to gather that information And and it's well it's well said there mark There are there are indications that they might be able to save some money doing this too and that probably is about timing But the big fight against the samsung's and apple pays is that they get no customer information from those folks So they want to control that I'm really sad. I I just I I'm I'm not seeing apple pays. I'm not seeing these You know point of sale units almost anywhere. I think maybe it's just I I don't go to as many big box retailers Probably as as I just don't get a chance to go to mcdonald's as often as you'd like That's interesting because I'm seeing all over the place Yeah, I think a cheap mexican hole in the wall place and there was apple pay stickers on the windows Really? Oh, that's see. That's that's great. I yeah, I guess maybe I'm not looking hard enough for them I I did a question on dear veronica about being able to look them up and there used to be websites that would show the mastercard Terminals where you could pay using using those passes But apple pay doesn't really have a good one And I'm wondering if there's a I would really like to see a map of of locations that show where where apple pay is Accepted that would be handy for me and I think a big promoter for them too. That's brilliant Yeah, maybe I'll build that Yeah, I'll take a class on linda Which you can do for free now apparently Yeah, well that is it for this episode of daily tech news show. Uh, thank you dear veronica Can you see what I did there? I saw yes show engage.com It is where you go to look for dear veronica and then ask her questions on twitter Do you still need questions before the end of the year? Uh, no, I'm writing. I'm writing the last two episodes that are gonna be coming out right after ces today So I'm I'm in good shape up until up until the end of january But I that doesn't mean I mean I still every time you write something with a hashtag dear veronica It automatically goes into my spreadsheet. I'm using if this than that So I will see all of your responses and they will be accumulated throughout time and I always need new questions So hashtag dear veronica And thank you john shiefer for joining us as well again check out twitter.com Slash brand x john that's b r a n d x j o n You can misspell it now. I own that one too. You know the other one too. Yeah, the j o e can Yeah, uh a fan kuhan Uh or listener in the audience, uh registered the misspelling of ace detect and is kind enough to direct people along On twitter. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Uh, and also check out brandxindustries.com slash algorithm If you want to take a look at the movie you buy the blu-ray Or just keep an eye out on on any news around that. Uh, anything else to tell folks about john You know the the project I I was weaving around is actually a 36 hour project that i'm trying to build about a, uh, a cia recruits a psychoanalyst to interview People coming up with radical technological innovations. That's the that's the story Exactly the details of it are n d a and how i'm doing it is n d a but that's that's the story. It's called intelligent design Uh, and I had the horrible url because I the campers are camping all the good ones Uh of intelligent design show dot com. All right, so keep an eye on that as well That's that's what i'm working on next design show dot com And if you are a cia recruiter who'd like to help john understand your business Yeah, I only have a couple of those. So yeah, I always need more always looking for more. I'm sure Thanks, man. It was really fun having you on the show today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, it was a pleasure Thanks to all of our patrons who make it possible for us to do stuff like this each and every day If you're willing to support the show I ask you go to daily tech news show dot com slash support ask yourself How valuable was the was the show for me and then, uh, give that amount of value back in whatever form you want You can just thank a boss. You could buy a mug. You could tell a friend you could support us on patreon.com Slash d tns our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com. You can give us call 51259 daily It's<PHONE_NUMBER> catch the show live Usually Monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern at alphagic radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and visit our website daily tech news Show dot com last live show of the year tomorrow with patrick bezia talk to you then The show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this bro That was a lot of fun john. Thank you so much. Oh, it was a pleasure We're still alive What's that? Yes, we're still alive sweet. Yeah, and generally what I do is while I edit the show We all just kind of hang out and talk uh, and just everybody leaves whenever they need to so Don't feel bad as soon as you need to hang on. No, I'm I'm I'm here for you. Awesome I just accidentally ordered two copies of sloth love on ink shares Uh, oops. Well, who wants a copy of sloth love? It's about sloths. There was uh They're uh for for star wars.  Oh my gosh. It was hilarious. Yeah, they did some sloth jokes They just did the the entire they just the preview was just one scene and it was a riot Oh, man, I didn't get that trailer. I want to see that. Yeah, so I love sloths. They're my favorite animals there's some uh anti drug commercial in australia that is out using sloths Like people dressed up as sloths as sort of this is what happens to you we're on drugs and the official Australian anti drug unit is like that's a really bad idea. It just makes people it makes people want to do drugs because You too can be cute. Yeah I don't know. I know it's slow and adorable. I know a couple methods that may disagree with those results though Yeah That's that's a really good point.  Sorry. What do we what do we got for titles?  It's exploiting but that's what we know what it really means Well, it could have that car or you could make it a do tacos go with that buy out Mm-hmm. The funny thing is that spelled t a l ko like yeah taco. That's clever. It's tacos delicious taco cord kidders What are you seeing this? Oh, sorry showbot.tv. Oh So in the irc if you do bang s and then the in a title it'll automatically submit it here and then people could vote on All right. Oh you mean for the title of the show Yeah, mm-hmm for this episode. Yeah Legally, I put the side of taco Um Legally binding mug. So I like that. I like that No, while I was trying to raise money for to buy the hardware to fail my algorithm I was working at a company that did a sec certification training for like series seven exams You need to do to be a stockbroker And I learned like the terms of what's legally binding what what counts as valid written Uh Notification things like that. It was really fascinating with my mug qualify then I don't know Well, here's the thing like one of the really profound realizations for me was that google gmail was Is valid because gmail is is you can submit a gmail email because it's time stamped as as uh As evidence in court So that's actually how I copyright things is just send it to myself in a gmail Oh really because the time stamp is reflected. All right, if if people can hack into google Then we've got a lot bigger problems than oh, yeah, sure And you're saying they have to view it in google. You can't just print it out and say yeah Look at the time stamp because I mean that yeah, and then according to my lawyer friends You also actually have to hire a computer specialist to explain why that's the case But I think that's enough of those friends Actually makes sense But it is submitable like that that was a case so the mug being on google it is all time stamped now Well, now it is that's true good point So so it might be since since there's an exact time log of when this was recorded when this conversation took place Does this mean legally binding mug is now the name of the show or And does it refer to the coffee cup or like our faces? Good point Could be All right. I need a title. What are we going with? Legally binding mug Legally binding mug the legally binding mugs have it Oh, I'm so sleepy Just think I love your background, man Which mine. Yeah. Oh, thanks how you set that up. I really like as a pro filmmaker.  Yeah, he he set up the lighting and the shot Made it so that that fireplace fills the background like make sure we got all the depth That's a fireplace. Yeah, I thought you were like on a throne in some kind of torture chamber As far as you know, it's just a fireplace Game of tech No, seriously, it looks good. He did well. Yeah Ever some people think it's too yellow Um, but I think that's just because he's got a strip of LEDs back there eliminating the bricks That are kind of yellow tint. I always thought it was green, but that's just yeah, or green. It looks green Sometimes but if you turn those off You don't see anything Suddenly, yeah, you can't see anything behind me But well, you could get a different LED color instead of yellow that would highlight the red and the bricks But then everybody would write emails. That'd be too red. Yeah, I think I think that one should be tom of the void yeah And there's this one, you know that that didn't work yeah darkness I love the first shot of star wars Love oh wait Yeah, that's too close Too too spoilery. I mean that is not spoilery No, we we can't go anywhere from there. I guess. Yeah, I loved it. That's all I'm gonna say I love the last shot of star wars if we're talking about shots I loved the 1,570 third frame. Yeah, so much. Yeah, so much so great. That would be like 30 seconds. I know it's not that far I just didn't want to have to say a longer number Oh my god, I'm watching this video on facebook and it is of a bunch of golden retrievers and they are carrying in groceries from a car They're so adorable. It's running back and forth from the door to the car and carrying the groceries. It's hilarious I have to train bodega to do this Wait, yeah, you have a tesla and a dog named bodega I do. I do. That is so awesome. I'm not sure how they're related But yes Live in the life, that's what I'm saying bodega anyone come say hi come here. Oh come here bodega everybody Where are you based? I am currently in a chair I like that I live in coast amesa my wife's a physical therapist and we have to live within close proximity to her work which is in cypress Because she works with uh terminally Yeah, she's she's my conscience You need a comfort puppy around Yeah, she's good at being a comfort puppy. Yeah, except she can talk Oh, oh, yes. Oh, I meant. Yes. That's not what I meant That's a happy looking dog right now.  You might win for coolest dog name Bodega, she's got a lot of nicknames uh old dirty bodega Uh bobo dags Bodie No, don't we yeah Oh bobo bobo's her big one um We were calling her um Bo bo bo yeggi and bo yegga and then I can't call her that anymore because now there's like john bo yegga Yeah, that's his name It feels weird, but yeah, so bodegs bodegs is a big one We started calling Sawyer kylo last night because he was Oh really to the dark side That's a good there's going to be a lot of animals named after star wars characters Oh Here po po po po po po. Does anybody else feel that Vader's kind of been defanged Yeah, a little bit dangerous dangerous territory here. No, this isn't as this is like the people stuff. Okay So yes, I believe it was the moment when he went No Yeah, I remember I went I went to like disney land and there were children Beating up fader and I got really sad Right because he was scary in 1960s. He was really a bad guy. Yeah Yeah Um, why don't I buy two copies? I read a really good article and I wish I could remember what site it was on today uh talking about how If you see and this is all prequel stuff, by the way If you see the jedi as being ultra conservatives and inflexible and not necessarily I read that. Yeah, I read that and then you see The Separatists as sort of libertarians the sith and the separatists as people who are like just trying to fight against that oppression Of the existing regime And then you pitch anakin as sort of a moderate Who's trying to just kind of figure out how to Take a middle course Then his turning into darth vader becomes a really compelling story of rebellion And you totally get why he would move all the way Uh to join the empire I mean with the exception of that bit about the younglings because that's not okay anywhere Right Well, you know, I I mean I guess the article was trying to say and if you read it too is that you have to change a lot of the prequels Yeah, the elements are in there. Yes. Yeah the philosophical elements. Yeah Have you guys read the the the jar jar is the sith lord? Yes That one was fascinating. Yeah, you're funny Or like a force agent a force agent. Yeah, which is what I liked Oh, I'm thinking so many thoughts. I can't say out loud. I know I'm trying to decide if What I what I want to say is in fact a spoiler because it doesn't actually use any words You wouldn't know without seeing the movie, but I if I have to think about it I'm just going to be safe and not saying it. Yeah All right guys, I got hit the road jacks. It's the road jacks. All right Talking with you Veronica. Yeah, thanks for being on it was great great episode and uh, I'm definitely gonna watch the movie I'm excited about it. I haven't had a chance to see it yet. Cool. All right guys. Bye. Oh, tom I guess I'll see you in a couple days. I'll talk to you tomorrow night for sword and later laser. Yes That's correct. All right. Bye. She's on sword and laser I am the co-host of sword and laser Now I'm even more excited All right. Bye guys I am almost done here And then yeah, uh anybody who has seen star wars the force awakens We are going to do a special episode of current geek this afternoon at four o'clock pacific With the coolest guests. Oh, yeah Like three of them jenny josephson Tin veck is going to be on uh, justin robert young and of course myself at scott johnson Give scott my regards. He uh, he also interviewed me. That was very Oh, yeah, absolutely. We should have you on current geek if you want to come on What time it's uh, usually on fridays at four pacific Uh, yeah, that should work. Let me know not this friday. Obviously because it's christmas eve, right? Yeah, we'll start back up. Uh after the first of the year um And yeah, just shoot me an email and we'll that scott usually does the booking although jenny you're help Going to start helping without it. Thanks a new year. We're booking oddly enough interesting people like field makers Hmm Yeah, i'm one of those now. Yeah, because we do a loot box Yeah, to support current geek. That's kind of our our we were trying different things for different shows And so if what we're trying to do is I would gladly give you a copy of algorithm, man If you want that'd be awesome. Oh That would be amazing. Yeah, let me know how many you need Yeah, we'll have to talk to david, uh, that's our new year's project. Yeah What I would would you want me to ship them out or do you want me to get them to you or Or would I'll write you an email in the new year and we'll book you as a guest And then we'll figure out sort of like how many boxes we're currently sending out and then uh, and then we'll figure something out Awesome, that would be rad. Yeah, I teach. I actually teach new media at a school in these parts and I would love um Love to talk to you when you're ready to reveal your new business model because I have been pushing up against the limits of crowdfunding in that class because The kids are all savvy and they're like this just back not for the films that they want to make Yeah, the the the largest crowdfunding that I have ever seen by far was for, uh, the ubuntu phone Which was like 17 million. Wow, they didn't reach their goal of 30 million which they needed But for films, uh, the the peak is like five Yeah, that's just barely you can't hire anybody famous for that number. Yeah So Yeah, I I when it's time believe me. I will make myself available. Excellent Uh, and even if you would just want to talk about other stuff for the class, I'd be more than happy to do that Oh cool. Yeah, that would be awesome Cool. All right. What's your dog called? His name is jacks He's half asleep right now But he's very warm. I only picture him on a Harley now that I know forever Hoggified I know He was named after a mortal combat character I know that I played mortal combat. That would be a mortal combat three. I believe or two This is that jacks All right, I'm out of the post. Thanks everybody for watching Goodbye. Thank you