Come our panelist, please. Let's welcome with a huge round of applause. Dr. Ipsita Chatterjee, head innovation development and brand strategy Lotus Herbils. Let's welcome Ruchika Gupta, Chief Marketing Officer, luminous power technologies. Mr. Sandeep Ranade, Executive Vice President and Head of Quantitative Research Hansa Research Group. Mr. Shivam Ranjan, Head of Marketing India Motor Roller Mobility. Mr. Vinit Kapahi, Head of Marketing Aviva India. And Nopur Gupta, Head LTV Products and Partnerships Sports Village. And let's welcome our moderator for the session. Please give it up for Mr. Sudhakar Rao, Director, Branding Iqfi Grove. Thank you. Thank you for being an amazing MC for the entire day. We are actually done with 75% of our sessions. Thank you so much. I think I would like to congratulate a big round of applause you are requested to raise for the people sitting in this beautiful box onto this extreme. They are actually running this show. A big round of applause for them. And these youngsters were sitting in the front table. It's called reserved, but they are actually working very, very hard to make the entire show run on time. Thank you so much for all of you and also the entire audience who have been so patient.  Building about brands for tomorrow is probably easier. So thank you very much for staying awake. Even after that wonderful lunch, either the lunch is very good or you're not sleeping. Which one is right. Anyway, don't answer that. I want to actually announce that this is a very, very large esteemed panel. This is the largest panel on the planet. Okay. Are you listening? This is the largest panel on earth. Okay. Yeah. Now, what we want to start is I'll just turn my chair and I request all the esteemed panelists to give a brief pitch about what they do as part of their business. It should be it should be in half of the elevator pitch without using any jargon without using any technical words to a simple, a simple simplified message to a common man. How would you introduce yourself?  We'll start from Vinit. We are in the industry of financial investment. So we what we do simply, if I will really put a go in terms of what it is, you know, we With a purpose and I've the purpose basically very clearly articulates as simplistic that could be with you today for a better tomorrow. What we do is we look at your financial planning in a sense that we are able to give you a better tomorrow. Thank you. Vinit is into life insurance. Next. Hi, I'm Shivam Ranjan and I work for Motorola, which is in the business of selling smartphones, mobile phones. Wonderful. And just a brief background about Motorola and what we do. So Motorola is one of the oldest brands in the mobile ecosystem. It's about 93 plus years old now. And one of the most innovative brands of all time. The first ones to actually create a mobile phone, a cellular phone. And not just that. In fact, a lot of people might not know this, but they were the first ones to the famous words that we heard from Neil Armstrong on the moon, which is the one small step for mankind.  Those were said by transport, you know, those were transmitted on a Motorola transponder. So, so always stood for innovation. And I think what we do as an organization and to our products is to create meaningful consumer experiences to enable them to achieve whatever they want to achieve in their life. So that's the vision and as part of the marketing team for Motorola, we try and ensure that we take these devices to as many people in India as we can. Hi, I'm Sandeep from Hansa. What we do is we connect brands to their consumers and give them what the consumers think or what the consumers experience from the brands and help them grow. Hi, so I'm a client of Hansa's. I'm Ruchika representing luminous power here and we use the insights that people like Sandeep and others generate and help consumers live uninterrupted lives. We are in the business of power, power storage, power generation, so inverters, batteries, solar power for residential solutions. Hi, I'm from Sports Village. Our purpose is to get kids to play. We work with 1500 schools in India to run physical education curriculums in the country. And with that network, we help brands use this access to kids through the school network and bring their purposeful campaigns to life by engaging and reaching kids and thereby their parents. Hi, I'm Dr. Chhita Chatterjee. I work for Lotus Health is Private Limited. Lotus is the pioneer in the beauty industry and it has been synonymous with green, clean, ethical beauty since time forever. It's been three decades now. We are now a branded house and a house of brands of about seven in-house brands and also we have 12 sub-brands. We believe in true beauty, conscious consumerism and at the same time, for us, transparency is non-negotiable. Thank you. Thank you very much. I think this introduction has been very good. There are instructions that we are supposed to maintain social distance. Can we move this side please? The fourth wave is about to hit us. Come here. Please come here. Keep laughing and come this side. So often we have used the words like WUCA. The business environment has been volatile, unsatine, complex and ambiguous. We all know WUCA, right? You heard of BANI. The marketing environment has been quite brittle, anxious, non-linear and incomprehensible. That's what these are all terminologies. But I think to describe a business environment vis-à-vis a marketing environment, these are really true in today's scenario. Now, how brands navigate through these difficulties and how do they build brands and make sure that you're building brands for tomorrow on one hand? On the other, how do you align your brand vision with the business growth? I think these are the challenges. So each one of us will take some time to respond to some of the very important aspects. What are the important aspects here? One is on positioning. How is brand positioning understood and perceived and conceived in today's times? Brand positioning is no longer a theoretical one-liner. You may agree or disagree with me, but we'll have to respond to the audience now. Is it a one-liner? Brand positioning, is it a one-liner? According to me, it is not. It's old school. I think we will have to communicate and think of a story for the entire brand and then probably narrate that instead of one-liners and a unidirectional kind of statements that we originally thought of. Brand positioning originally has been ABC. A is audience, B is benefit and C is a compelling reason why we should buy that particular brand. So the core aspects will remain, but the way we communicate will change that. Any initial response from each one of you on this and then we'll get into something specific. When you're responding, if you have any stories with respect to your own work and your own brand, that would be much more interesting for us. Yavinith. See, I believe that, and I did say that brand has to clearly have, in fact, a lot of esteemed analysts before me also came and said that clearly has to have a purpose. A purposeful brand has to solve a problem or an issue in hand. You may have great products or great services, but if it's not actually doing either of the two, then it cannot become a great brand. Also, the one thing that you really need to look at is the audiences today are not really looking at what you have to offer. The audiences are basically looking at how are you going to make their life easier. And it's not about sitting in boardrooms and talking about positioning or talking about purposes and all that stuff. That's one part of it. You may do all that, but whatever you're communicating to a consumer, if you do not breathe live within the organizations across all people, then it really doesn't solve anything. I think the first and foremost is inside the organization, everybody has to know what is that one particular thing that you're going to do for the customers before you go out and really talk about it. It has to be authentic. It can't be just a show. And unless it is authentic, I mean, I'm sure consumers who evolved that they can just see through brands and companies that we speak right now. Is there any one authentic thing that you have championed in your organization with respect to purpose? So what we do, I'll give you an example. I mean, it's a very interesting and a very, I would say, difficult category for consumers. Financial investments today is a very, very difficult category. I mean, everybody sitting here today possibly will think that they have their financial investments in place, but is it really in place? You really need to ask yourself, do you know whether you are very well planned for a great future for yourself or not? I mean, that's a question people need to ask specific to a category. I can tell you either people sitting here would be and we are all educated either would be either not insured or under insured. Do you know what your human life value is today? I don't think a lot of people do that. What we are trying to do is we are trying to sort of get to a consumer and tell him what is human life value is all about. And unless you go to that person, he will realize that, oh, you know, I really did not know that, you know, this is the sort of a value I need to really look at if I were to sort of plan for the future. I think that's extremely important. We do that. We really tell a consumer what his human life value is all about and whether he needs it or does not need it. Finances per se is a very closed chapter when it comes to the Indian context. People are very, very close to talking about their financial to anybody outside. What we are trying to do is we try to educate consumers that you can go bought and talk about financial investments. And in that financial investments, sort of look at where in your life cycle do you stand today so that you are able to do the right investments. I think that's that's one thing that sort of is something we've been doing. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now request Dr. Ipsita actually to explain. Is there anything unique that your brand has done? For example, you may be blessed to be in a particular category which is uninfluenced and unaffected by certain vagaries of business environment. But all those people who are in health and wellness are not necessarily great in their purpose and those who are not are actually weak in their purpose. It's not true. Is there anything unique when you compare yourself with the rest in your category? How uniquely you would have actually championed certain things that probably tells that your purpose is much greater and you are well connected to your purpose. Do we know anything? Could we learn anything from you from your category and your own business? Sure. So basically in the beauty and personal care space, you would see that currently the terms like conscious consumerism, green beauty, clean beauty, all of these terms are coming in popularity today. But Lotus has always been the pioneer and has championed these causes ever since the launch of the brand, which was about 30 years ago. I think the greatest asset what we have done as a brand is saying true to our values and also not getting affected by whatever is happening in the market. Albert Einstein has very interestingly quoted and he said that intelligence is measured by the ability to change. And that's how we have survived all these years. We are adaptable. We are nimble. We are agile. For instance, I would like to give you an example in particular. So, you know, beauty and personal care was one of the top 10 industries which was worsted by the pandemic. Every industry suffered very badly. However, we took quick changes and we also decided that the digital transformation has to happen very quickly. So, you know, such transformations take about nine to 10 months or maybe 12 months. We finished it within three months itself.  It is number one on every e-commerce platform. Secondly, what we also did was we realized that, you know, the world is moving towards Ayurveda health and wellness. So that's when we decided in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, we acquired luxury beauty brand Soul Tree, which is based on Ayurvedic recipes. It was first certified organic Ayurvedic brand. Similarly, you know, for the categories of Gen Z, we know that the demographics is changing very rapidly. So we realized that the importance of Gen Z as a consumer has been neglected for quite a while. And that's why we came up with this brand called Ikai Beauty, which is very Gen Z centric, the kind of products they would like to use, the kind of products they would enjoy. We communicate with them in their language. So I think adaptability change is very important and understanding that different target groups have different kind of aspirations from the products. And that's how, like you said, non-linear is the way to go forward. The visual positioning, the product positioning, the price positioning, everything is absolutely non-linear these days. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Hipsita. We'll now request Nupur to come in your sports village and the kind of network that you have with all the schools. And the schools as captive audience, you give access to various brands, brands come to them and talk to them and pitch their campaigns. What actually is the purpose of your organization? Forget about the purpose of those brands who come and pitch and use them as captive audience. That's a different story altogether. But what is your purpose? How consistent have you been and what have been the achievements and how do you measure that impact? Our purpose is to get kids to play. We started 19 years back with this very simple purpose that kids need to play unstructured, structured, whatever. But we need to create opportunities for them to play whether it is just going out into the ground and playing, having a structured match play opportunities. Then that's how we link that access with the brands to help them live out their purpose in the schools. As an example, we saw Tata T earlier talk about the Jagore campaign. Now that's not just content on social media. We help them walk that talk on ground through a school access by creating a Tata T Suraksha campaign in which at that time Jagore campaign was centered around women empowerment, self-defense. So we created self-defense program classes which was run for one lakh girls in 340 odd schools across the country where the safety then came into their own hands with pre-activism rather than being reactive about it. So that's how we help brands live out their purpose inside the schools. As an example also climate change which a lot of brands have talked about today. We also do a program called Green Medal Program where the idea is that children, as again Puneet spoke about, are the change agents for the future. Do you have the Green Medal which you? Yes. So this is a very special medal which has been made out of recycled plastic. So we conduct play-based modules inside the schools where through fun play-based activities teach kids about it's a three-bin system where to recycle, how to recycle and then at the end of that activity, whether it's a relay race at the end of it, they deposit the waste in the right bin. They get these medals and that helps take that message to the parents, keep that conversation alive and engage with them as well. So simple programming and with play has that power to integrate any program, whether it is hygiene, menstrual health. For how many years you've been running this? So the company has been alive for 19 years and so on going forward. Okay, what are the brands which you said no to? In alignment with your purpose and your vision, you would have had to say no to certain brands because certain brands make products which are unhealthy. Exactly. To the kids at least because that's the segment that you have. Yeah. Did you ever say no? Yeah, so aligning with the right brands is very important for us because we stand for sports and play, which is the connotation of health, right? And brands do approach without name dropping approach about just sampling to the kids, which is not what we stand for. We have to create programming which schools see as something that they can take inside the school. The kids, it's valuable for them and the parent, it can delight the parents that my child is learning something new. So therefore we are not doing just sampling. We are taking the whole brand purpose into the school integrated curriculum, therefore giving them a guaranteed access to all kids. It is your purpose as well there. In fact, I'm more interested in your purpose because you as an organization have stuck to certain rules and vision and allowed only certain kind of people to look at the kids. And then you are giving a greater opportunity for the kids to look at these opportunities, imbibe, transform and probably take action when they grow up. Probably that's the purpose that you have. Yes, absolutely. Just keeping play as central and school as a central fashion. Play is a tool. But purpose is extremely clear. I request Shivam to come in and tell us if there's anything that we can learn in the face of adversity, how did you align your vision of the brand with the business growth targets that you have? Was there any dissonance? If so, how was that managed? How was that navigated through? I think that's a great question. And I think, like I said, Mochola as an organization has seen big highs in the past. We were one of the largest selling mobile smartphone OEMs in the world. And then we saw challenging times where the business had to take a step back and then come back again. The purpose, although I believe, has always remained the same. And I think that is important for the sake of any organization. So the purpose has always been use of innovation to create meaningful consumer experiences, which was behind us inventing the mobile phone in the first place to create those meaningful consumer experiences. The first to make a 5G device, the first to make a foldable device. So I think the purpose has remained the same and the steps that we have taken as a business as well as in terms of consumer communication has been in sync with the purpose. But yes, in terms of, you know, making those claims, so for example, innovation, right, requires R&D investments, it requires a lot of investments, especially when the time is difficult for an organization, that becomes something that becomes less of a priority for many organizations. However, at Mochola, we believe that we have to stay true to our core, true to our purpose, which is why we continue to invest in innovation to give consumers things that were differentiated and therefore able to create differentiated consumer experiences. Now some examples there. You know, the first example that I would like to say is we are actually, and a lot of people might not know this, but we are the first brand in the world to actually make a 5G call, right? So not Samsung, not Apple, it's Mochola. And that happened in 2019, as recent as 2019. So we've been continuing to invest even in difficult times in R&D to be ahead in terms of technology, in terms of capability, in terms of ensuring that the products that we give to the consumers are no compromise and we are enabling meaningful consumer experiences, which is what we are doing till this day. Wonderful, that's amazing, yeah. Keeping your focus on the customer, being customer centric, even when you go through the difficulties. We'll request Rochika Gupta, who has already taken the mic to respond now. Ready. See, again category discussions that we started with Vinit, basically there is one category which says, I innovate, you benefit. I make molecules and therefore you are alive. As if that particular organization or category does not take home any money. The purpose is much, much, much bigger. And there's another category of businesses and brands and organizations. Just for the sake of scoring a few brownie points, they say that, you know, we feed a lot of these people and then they make some films and movies out of it and for awards. While we know, we acknowledge that we have all kinds of people like that. How do we make sure that we are very genuinely recognized for our on the ground connect with the purpose? We have a stated purpose and we live through the purpose. Can you help us learn some examples from your own journey as to how we make sure that we have a purpose and we live through that and we save ourselves from the make-believe purpose statements, make-believe organizations who actually fake it. So, thank you. Excellent question again, if I may say so. I think, see, brand purpose or business purpose or anything like that requires a certain amount of, like we say, 3Cs. You know, it needs a certain conviction. You need to be actually buying into it.  So, you need that true conviction. What you also need is, as I think somebody else also spoke about earlier, a consensus in the organization, in the stakeholders. It's not just about the organization, right? Your channel partners, your other partners with whom you work with need to buy into that and have that same purpose that they are willing to put their, you know, rally behind that same purpose. So, that consensus is extremely critical. Only then will they, and I think the biggest one of them all beyond everything else is just to have the courage, right? Because building that brand purpose or that business purpose will need investments. It will need time. It will need patience. It might also need a hit on your ROI for a certain amount of time. But if you have the conviction and the consensus behind it, the courage will take you through. And giving you an example of this, so I am in an industry where, you know, our death knell has been written for years and years. Electrification is happening. Government is, you know, claiming 100% electrification in many, many places. There should not be a market for inverters and batteries. By all practical purposes, we should have either died or have had a recession happening in the category by now, right? But it's not happening. There is growth happening in the core business. However, of course, we are, you know, any organization worth its salt is future looking. So, we know that there will come a time, if not today, if not in the next five years, ten years, there will be a time where the core business will start growing. And hence, what do we do for tomorrow's? And as the, you know, session topic was also about building brands for tomorrow. I think it needs a step back in saying building categories for tomorrow as well. So, about five or six years ago is when the organization already identified that renewable energy as a residential solution is something that we want to invest and build our, you know, kind of shape our purpose towards. And why we are saying so is that, you know, solar is something, I mean, wind energy is very tough to, it's impossible to bring in home. Those are meant for farms and for projects and requires a lot of other things, similarly for the hydral energy parts of it. But solar energy on the other hand is in the hands of literally every individual sitting in this room as well. There is nothing that stops you as long as you have access to your own rooftop, you know, which stops you from generating the electricity that you need for your own consumption. And making a Atman Irbar India should not be something that is only left to the government. It is something that we as citizens should be contributing to as well and enabling that is what our brand purpose is. And how we're bringing it alive is obviously huge amounts of investments in R&D to make sure that the right kind of products at right kind of prices. Because remember it is for an individual to buy and for a middle class household to invest into their own home infrastructure. They need to be at a price point which is affordable and accessible and has a built-in ROI for the consumer. You know, on something like this because people literally calculate their electricity bills that they are paying on a monthly basis and how long it will take for them to break even. And we've been able to bring in solutions now which give you the break even in three to four years max and has a life of about 10 to 15 years. So, you know, from those kind of things is where the brand purpose is coming alive on the ground. Wonderful. Thank you so much. I request now Sandeep Ranadeji to respond. I think you have visibility to and control on a lot of research that happens. Brand health studies gives you access to how brands are actually doing. There are indices, there are indicators for you to look at and see. So, given that you're at a vantage point, I have two questions to you, Sandeepji. One is what kind of dissonance that you notice between the brand vision or the stated brand vision and the pursued path, the gap between the talk and the walk. Okay, that is one. On the other hand, we often come across, I don't want to take names again. We often come across these aspects when we talk about branding, when we talk about, you know, we all of us have bragging rights. It's okay. But only when we cross a particular limit or a particular line, we end up making all kinds of state pants. It is very, very difficult in my belief and a little bit of experience that all the time you align these two. And if I ask anyone in the audience also, if I ask this question, you will say, yes, I'm completely aligned with my purpose and my brand vision and my brand vision with my business growth and my business growth with all kinds of best practices and Compliances that I'm supposed to follow. Can you give us a few examples, even if you don't want to take the names, it's fine, but maybe you can cite a category or two and then give us a few examples for us to learn. Sure. Thank you. So maybe I'll try and answer with both questions combined in an answer rather than, and maybe I'll take brand names, not to be taken in a different way, but it is more how consumers are looking at what the brand. So I think every brand will have a vision, will have a purpose when it, you know, comes into play. But what we talked about here, one, I mean, you talked about insurance, there are so many insurance brand. If I am an insurance brand, even if they do have a purpose of positioning, how do I first make sure that the consumers know about me, look at me differently, differentiate myself and then consistently be at my positioning that we are talking about, right? So taking insurance is an example and what we see this entire tussle between the long term and the short term. So yes, the brand does have a purpose, the brand does have a positioning and it takes time to build the brand and you talked about patience or you talked about 19 years trying to do the same thing, right? But what we see is in order to grow or in order to respond to what the market is doing, there is sometimes that dissonance to try and grow versus the positioning which I think are the purpose which takes a longer time to build and needs that consistency, needs that continuous investment which again I think after launching brands we have seen after one, one and half years of support, the support goes down and a new launch suffers. So that consistent support and differentiation needed to say that, yes, I am here, this is my purpose and I stand for it and I deliver it. And to give you an example again, not that I would know the exact purpose positioning at that time, yes positioning we may know working for those clients but I will not go into details but site two brands which started around the same time I would say in a bigger way they were in the market and when I mention the brand names you will see the difference between whether one succeeding today and one suffering today and what would have happened between the purpose with which the brand came in and what they were trying to do to grow whether it was in dissonance or in alignment. So one is Patanjali and I won't go into details, it started growing at a point of time, every brand health track we did for other clients not Patanjali, this brand came in and started impacting all the measures of our client brands. And the question started coming in what is happening, why is this brand which was nowhere suddenly growing and we see what has happened to them now whether it is investments, whether it is what they are doing on the ground. And at the same time the way telecom market changed and Geo came in maybe with pricing at that time to cut the market and we don't have so many brands in telecom category for consumers like there is insurance or soaps or shampoos. But the way Geo came in and the way they have been in the market through that time to where they are now. Wonderful, I think that is a very clearly spelt out category and example that you have taken that helps us learn. Thank you so much. Vinith you have been taking the mic so you can answer without the question also. I want to actually give you an example of where we actually lived up to the purpose. It's been 18 years since we've been associated with one of the NGOs called the Arpana Trust. I'm not sure how many of you actually know that, it's a small little slum school that is there in Mathura Road somewhere. They have a junior kindergarten they have a senior class also. 18 years, kids, 300 kids, we've been supporting them in terms of their education all across. And I can tell you, we've seen that growth and these kids are basically a rickshaw driver or the people who come to work at the maid's house. They don't have any means. The one thing that they wanted to come to the school was because they had midday meals. The parents were out and the kids were safe. 18 years in this and I can tell you now, as we speak right now, I went there last year and I met the people and a lot of people are saying that my child is now studying law. My child has started working in the shopper shop. Can you just see the tremendous growth of those people where we invested from those back lanes where there used to be nothing and they are now getting into the mainstream working class. So it takes time, it takes patience, I think the fellow panellists, it takes time, it takes a lot of patience. But you've got to continuously believe in that purpose and live with it. And I think nothing comes short. I mean if I say something to you, nothing comes short. It has to be a long term but you have to live with it. Wonderful. You need to work for it and it's not easy. Why should only the session chair have all the fun? So you ask questions and you don't actually get to answer any. That's great fun. I would request the audience to raise a few questions for us and you can indicate who can actually take those questions. Audience? Okay, there is nobody in audience who can actually think of a question. Yes sir, yes sir. Sandeep ji for you. He's talking about Patanjali. A brand has to sustain itself for a long period of time to attain that status. Has it sustained itself long enough? Because the management has been changing quite frequently there. First we had a whole lot of MBAs who came in, now they're no longer there. And the supply chain has broken down. There's a problem in the distribution system. How do you see it surviving? Yes, it made a lot of difference in the market in the sense that it brought in Ayurveda into the country. So everybody had to react that. But is it going to sustain itself? So I'll try and answer it again from the consumer lens, not a marketer trying to evaluate or comment on Patanjali. And I think what you said itself had a lot of answers in it. So on whether what happens in the future, so one, whether you pointed out distribution problems, whether they brought in something new but whether they sustained or whether they are supporting it. We have seen not only in Patanjali and I would not name the brands but even in other brands, a change in the marketing head itself changes the way they go to the market. So all this impacts the long-term purpose or the existence of the brand. So what would happen to Patanjali? I mean I don't know. But currently I don't see it very fit to take on the kind of competition or the products it is in and it is suffering. Does that answer your question? That lent itself to the ancillary brands. So the mother brand here which I wouldn't say Patanjali as the mother brand, it was Baba Ramdev who actually helped at a point. But I would say right now looking at what the consumers are responding and I'm not talking sales of the product, just the brand performance in terms of whether the people are aware, what is the imagery of the brand, I think it's not helping anymore. It's been answered sufficiently sir. Thank you. One question is that technology itself actually creates new values or reshapes the old ones. One very simple thing I am talking about. On social media, say on WhatsApp groups, most of us have avoided saying good morning, am I right? True. Which otherwise, when I go to your office, when I meet you or when I come across you, we are walking across the streets, I say good morning to you. Namaste. How do you look at this? How do we navigate these newfound restrictions or newfound behaviors? This is also given by technology. Do you have any such paradoxes in what you are actually doing in your own business, in your own brand building? Are there any paradoxes like this which are brought by technology and how do you navigate these paradoxes? Shivam. Yeah, I mean that's a fantastic point and I think like you mentioned rightly, I mean consumer behavior is changing constantly. I think one thing that we as marketers have to do constantly is to keep on learning, keep on observing the consumer trends and then adopting towards it. One of the biggest things that we saw spike up due to the pandemic was consumption on OTT platforms and video content consumption. That's a big change in behavior where traditional media consumption went down. Cinemas were shut, television had a bit of a spike then it's back down again. But digital video consumption is something that we are seeing as a big trend which is continuing to grow. Any such change in consumer behavior or consumer consumption patterns, I would say we as marketers should see it as an opportunity. I mean that's an opportunity for you to grab because if it's a new technology, new phase, new pattern, there are still less people grabbing on to that. So the clutter or the competition is lesser. If you are able to grab on to a trend well in advance, it will lead an advantage to the brand in advance. Now for us of course we caught on to that trend way back and we've been investing heavily in terms of media on video. We've been investing and even our communication has changed accordingly. So basically if you see, another trend that you see while storytelling is absolutely essential in all the communication that we do. But one of the biggest factors about the consumers today is they have a very low attention span because the social media etc. I mean the trend is they look at comms only for a few seconds and then if you don't grasp the attention they'll move on. So it's important for us to also look at storytelling in short formats and I think that is for example a new trend that we have to leverage as marketers to be able to grab attention and to be able to communicate with the consumers on an ongoing basis. Wonderful. Yeah please. So as a brand we stand for play and by play we meant physical play during covid and in fact even before that we saw a trend of e-games coming up which technology driven and kids are on to it so we cannot completely ignore but it was like a conundrum to what we stand for. So the way we work through this is we launched motion capture games which we call active games. So in which it is like a video game which but you stand like some feet away from the computer screen so there's not a computer screen and with your motion the video captures your motion and then the character moves. So therefore we combine both technology and play to come up with a solution to caveat. Wonderful. Wonderful. Awesome. Thank you. Wanted to add something. So we leverage technology very well. So one of our brands is rotis professional which caters to 15000 plus salons and spas across the country. So I'm sure you know that you know salons and spas were the worst during covid. So in the past two years most of the restrictions were there in terms of sanitation and all of that and a lot of beauticians actually went out of business. So what we did as a company we introduced India's biggest professional app for lotus professionals. So basically any hairdresser any beautician who's actually a lotus beautician who's actually using lotus products and even if they're not using it they are registered on that app. It's India's biggest app we have currently 35000 plus beauticians registered with us through the IMLP club. And what we did was we did their medical insurance we also gave them vocational training and also instead of bringing people to the salons because they were shut at that point of time and it continues to date as well. Most of the people like services to be done at home. So we did virtual salon consultations and made the beauticians reach home to home when they were out of business. So I think it was an interesting aspect for creating a club of such huge stretcher for the beautician and the hairdresser community in India. So I also would like to add you know there were three C's mentioned by Ruchika. So I believe consumer should be the heart of everything. So consumer and community building. So in future Web 3.0 will be the future of technology. And that's why community building and micro communities and macro communities are very very important. Wonderful. Thank you very much. But in your category are you the only one who was doing it? I would like to believe yes. No. Don't believe that. That's a very important hint. Yeah. Your self place. So I can actually build on something that I was just talking about on the you know and this is something that actually we started before COVID. But I think COVID with everybody has fast tracked the digital transformation for cross businesses. But you know the whole piece around influencer marketing which has been growing bits and pieces and then you know then more and more. So we already had a program in place which is quite detailed. And you know in our category the whole discussion oriented decision making is very very high. So everybody wants to know exactly. For my house. What's the battery. You know a combination. So it's a consultative decision making that happens. And it's also a very highly recommendation oriented category. So it's not something that if I was to ask most of you I don't even think you will know the power load. You know you are allowed at home. So it's very tough for you to go and buy a specific SKU you know just off the top of your head and things like that. So what we had moved very early on was from the macro influencers to micro influencers and into community influencers. So I mean I know now it has become like a buzz in a lot of different forums.  And my team had actually attended a forum month about a month back and things like that. And they had actually come back saying isn't this what we're doing. So it is there and it is a lot of hard work. Let me put it this way all marketers in the room would I'm sure agree to identify people sitting in regions sitting in different languages. You know community influencers are much tougher to do rather than writing a big fat check to a celeb influencer and getting that one five hour window literally on their feed. You know where you get noticed if at all but it pays off because consumers can see through the authenticity. They can actually read you know when you are talking when their kind of people are talking to you them it connects that much more. I think in every business every domain or every category you have the influence of community or community leaders playing a very very big role including politics. We've stayed away from that. We'll stick to the electricians and the retail. So Sandeep Ji is there any media platform that you would not touch if so why. Don't think I mean in that but it all depends on I think one I mean even before answering your question I think today there are so many touch points to reach consumers and I'm just not stopping at a media platform. And and so not that every brand has enough budget to go into each and every of the platform today today the budget versus the number of touch points has increased so much. So instead of taking the question as to whether I would touch any of them I think the idea would be which I would not touch. So it's an easier question. Unburdened by the by the ones that yeah the ones that relate with my consumers and the ones that relate with my category entry points I would prioritize them then trying to go into each and every platform. Yeah the general suggestion is that we need to have an omnichannel and all the jargon I didn't want to use that's why I reverse the question. Is there any particular media platform that you would not like to touch and you don't have to answer if it is uncomfortable because there is nobody here from those media platforms which will get offended. I mean I'm just guessing I don't know but but you can you don't have to. So so a Shivam this question is to you. What kind of difficulties. See common man doesn't ask you these questions of you're not walking the talk you're not alive in your that brand vision with the business growth and all these things. What is your position is not going to ask you the ABCs right somewhere along the line. We as businesses and brands have our own internal metrics and they indicate that we are actually not being accepted. We are not being consumed properly depending on the category and in your own organization or in your previous organization wherever you have worked. Are there instances where you had built up any systems which which will work for probably a large number of brands also to look at and they sit down and take note of. Those indicators and we must rework on our purpose the or the way it is communicated and the way it has been practiced. Again I think very interesting now all of us do these brand tracks with standard measurements of awareness. Concentration purchase intent preference but what you said is are we measuring the parameters that actually measure the brand purpose. Right. I think that's that's a very interesting one. Now I'd be very specific here in terms of you know what we do at Motorola. Now like I mentioned our brand purposes the use of innovation and technology to give meaningful consumer experiences. So we measure things which are which are interested interesting for us. One is we measure the innovation quotient from our consumers in all our brand tracks. Every year we also measure is it a brand that you see as innovative right which of these brands do you see as innovative. One of the questions that we measure and another parameter that we also measure is proud to own. Right. And I think that is that is again something that is important for us from the perspective of the fact that if we are innovative if we are creating meaningful consumer experiences if we are a brand that the consumers see and want to be associated with then are they proud to own a Motorola. So these are a couple of new parameters that that we have in our measurement. Assuming that there are no questions from the audience the same person will not ask the second question. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be a real good question that Lakshya people will come and hand over the gift to you. Okay. That is up to you to decide. Let me try it. So you know the brands are as I understand part of a business. Right. So they are extension of business. They are more to create that you know trust with the what business you have to offer. Now innovation as many of you are representing that also Motorola MSX Sigma practitioner. I know you started it in the world fast. But innovation and ROI they don't go hand in hand many times. You know it's very difficult for business and brand to justify that investment. How do you tackle that as part of your day to day jobs? Anyone can answer that. Thank you. Shivam to start. I think that's a great question. And like I said right I mean even in tough times see if you innovation you're absolutely right. Innovation requires investments. It requires R&D and it requires patience right which is all costly. So that is absolutely true. But in any business you know you've got various expense and sources of revenues right. It's about how you prioritize and what you prioritize correct. So you can obviously cut costs from from areas which are not priority for you at that point of time. You can continue to you know monitor your costs and only invest in R&D for example for a time. So for example for with Motorola let me give you an example of what happened. So back in 2017 we were we were you know really doing very well in India. We were the ones that actually crashed flipkart when we went on sale with moto g series because there was a lot of traffic. We started this entire online sale model and then there was an advent of many competition brands who came from different countries and who created an atmosphere where there was tremendous competition and we lost our you know edge with respect to innovation or differentiation right. So we took a step back we cut on marketing we cut on distribution we cut on various other things but we kept on investing on R&D. We kept on investing on innovation because we knew the only way we could come back was to come back with something that really made sense was really innovative and was able to make or create meaningful consumer experiences. So just staying true to that is what in my view can work. Wonderful. Ruchika are you saying something. We want to wrap it up now. So just a very quick one. Lethia Mayan I'm sure a lot of you would have heard of the you know buzzy battery chemistry that is being spoken about across the world now. We've been experimenting with Lethia Mayan now as you know innovation that we can bring to consumer homes. You know since the last five years and earlier this year we launched a fifth version of it. So what I wanted to say was that being innovative for innovation sake is never enough. It is an expensive exercise. It is a time consuming exercise but it also requires a lot of agility and adaptability to it right.  If you have the conviction which goes with it and if you have even more than conviction is the core insight that you know there is a place for this innovation in the consumer lives in the in the category that you are operating in. And then you have to kind of you know find the right solution eventually. We feel now that we are very very close to it with the launch that we've made this year. There are still a few pricing corrections that need to be made and once the global raw material market sorts itself out that will get sorted as well. The response has been fabulous from consumers. They're absolutely willing to you know back you when you get it right and they're equally cruel when you don't. So I think innovation and ROI over a long period of time can go together. But if you view innovation as a quick solve to a problem then maybe not. Thank you. Thank you very much. I think the responses have been wonderful. We have to wrap up wrap it up right away. I want to thank each and every member of this amazing largest planet largest panel on the earth. One wonderful members. We have learned great deal from from brand research to power backup systems to students by using play as a tool to awaken them and build them as a force and to beauty and wellness kind of industry. Of course innovative mobiles and financial planning as in Aviva life insurance. Wonderful people here and you've been an outstanding audience because one of you stood throughout after having asked that question. And one is still standing in the last line. But but you've been an outstanding outstanding audience. You asked very few questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you so very much. Thank you. Can I please request the panelists to kindly come up front for a group picture. And also let's welcome Mr. Atul Srivastav group CEO Luxia Media Group to kindly present a small token of appreciation to all our panelists and the moderator. I request the panelists to kindly say back for the group picture. Well one thing that we all can take away from this panel discussion is in order to understand building brands for tomorrow it is equally essential to put light and to take in consideration the brands already built in for now. Thank you so very much panelists.


Okay, we're back live here at Hadoop World 2012. This is theCUBE, siliconangle.tv, siliconangle.com's flagship telecast. We go out to the events, talk to the smartest people we can find, CEOs, entrepreneurs, analysts, authors, famous consultants, famous book writers. Whoever has the signal, we want to extract that and share that with you. I'm John Furrier, the founder of siliconangle.com. I'm joining with Jeff Kelly, my co-host this week from wikibond.org, and we're joining with Jeffrey Moore. Who is the famous author? I'm crossing the chasm inside the tornado, among other things. Have seen the many cycles of innovation. Jeffrey, welcome to Siliconangles theCUBE. Nice to meet you. I'll try to be more signal than noise. Our job is to extract the signal. Okay, that's your job. I'll let you, okay. Hope it won't be too much work. We will extract the signal from you and share it with the audience. So, you gave the keynote here, and very interesting because, you know, obviously your books are well-documented as being really the cornerstone for some of the business strategy around companies going to market, and as markets develop, you've been a consultant, you've written the books, you've seen many companies be successful. Tell us from your personal perspective why you think big data and the aspects of what the technology underneath is evolving is so important. Well, I mean, the thing that's important is we're putting the entire world on the web. So we're digitizing, we've digitized consumer experience, and now we're going to digitize business and government experience, education, healthcare, the whole thing. And the tool set that you need to do that is so drastically different than the way we thought about data before. We always thought about data before as something on the side or in the background or in the history. It was a before or an after. It wasn't a during. But in this world, it's clear that it's the sight and sound of the web. And if you don't have big data and analytics, you're blind and you're deaf. And you're probably in the middle of a freeway and about to get killed. So it's really, really important that we get this at the speed. The early media guys pioneered the space. It's not an accident that Yahoo! is the founder of the Hadoop stack. But now it's the rest of the world figuring out how do I incorporate this, when do I incorporate this, do I have to do it now, can I wait, that kind of stuff. Yeah, so we had Omar Awadallah, the founder of Cloudera on theCUBE, when we first started doing this. And I asked him about Cloudera. He says it was the first real company to start up to come out and commercialize it. He says at Yahoo! he saw the future. And he wanted to kind of bring the rest of the world there. So the question I want to ask you is along those lines. So in the first time in the history of business, we can actually instrument someone that's going to actually instrument their business end-to-end from acquiring raw materials to actually selling and servicing and making money.  And so, you know, we've had books about process improvement, value change. So how does all this going to change the business mindset of that? Because not only do they have to cross the chasm, there's a lot of re-engineering going on in businesses. Yeah, in fact, I think you got it. It will not be monodirectional because when you have a technology disruption, but you have a human social context for it, the two interoperate with each other.  Because they'll just say, look, I can't do this all at once. And so what happens, we see this technology adoption pattern again and again and again where early adopters actually say, we're going to grab on big time early on with a project-oriented model. So they will do projects. And they'll be either successful or unsuccessful, but the ones that get a lot of visibility are very successful. The rest of the world hangs back and says, it's not ready yet for me. And then at a later date, particularly around painful use cases, they'll say, well, I'm not sure I'm ready for Hadoop for everything, but for this one use case, I'm really desperate, so I'll try it here. And if that use case is repeatable, then there's a market that's created just around that use case. And then at some later date, it's like, hey, you know what, it's a lot of use cases. It's really horizontal infrastructure. And the question that you ask, it's important for the vendor community to get a sense of is where do we think we are today? And so in my talk today, I suggested we're still in the early market. We're still completing the technical whole product around projects. If you look at the tracks at the conference for the last two days, they're largely around the technical whole product. They talk about use cases, but usually exceptional use cases, the same use case recurring over and over again. But there is a different use case, by the way. Anybody want to shoot to that? But anyway, and so I think the question at some point will be, when is it time to cross the chasm? But I think there's still a bunch of work to do what we would call the early market still. Let me ask you a question about just observationally, anecdotally, based on your history, looking back. And sometimes history can predict the future in a way, but not always. Things are always different. But what do you think companies need to do to be successful in this market? Because there's a lot of theaters kind of where the bombs are dropping. Microsoft's announcing that they're buying a company called Yammer today, that it wasn't around seven years ago, and it's going to be a billion dollar acquisition. It's a social network. Yeah, I know David. You know, David Sacks, you know, PayPal Mafia, great guy, he's been on the Cube. That's going on. You've got VMware, EMC. You've got infrastructure change that's affecting IT and converging infrastructure. And you've got applications and analytics. All these theaters are exploding. So what does a company need to do to be successful, given it's not the old linear go-to-market path anymore? It's a lot of zig-zagging. Well, in fact, it always was zig-zagging. I just think it's happening on a bigger campus at a faster pace. But so I think it's this notion that if you're in the early market, the key to it is I need to adapt my business model to the life cycle, to the adoption life cycle. And you're not going to be great at every part of the life cycle. So the first part is, well, who are we? So people who are absolutely stellar at the beginning are the technologists who do projects. And then once the thing crosses the chasm and becomes more mature, their creativity typically is like, well, we don't need as much creativity now as we need scale and reliability. And so you guys have to either learn that or maybe you should go off and invent something else. When you cross the chasm, it's that use case domain expertise. That's where the market is looking for. So this is kind of a weird time where application vendors, even though the technology is very new, it's actually the application vendors that lead the parade. And that happens while until the world is really ready for horizontal application of the technology, it gets adopted in verticals, particularly with business applications. And then there's a time when it's like, no, no, no, no, this is a relational database. This is a Hadoop. This is whatever it is. And every industry is going to adopt it. And then that's when the horizontal guys, like the Oracles, the Microsofts, the VM, they say, look, it's not VMware but it's a virtual services industry. This is like virtualizing anything, right? But there was a time when it was VMware for very specific use cases. You talked about on stage, I had a good chuckle on this one because I'm 46, I'm a little bit younger than you, but I've been around the days when IT was the old IT. You mentioned that for an IT guy looking at all this, it's kind of different, right? There's a lot of different dynamics going on. And we were just at, with Intel in New York City a couple days ago, we were on this cloud conversation. What came out of that was the business model was the conversation around cloud computing. Here, with analytics, with the iPads, the iPads has gotten the CEO saying, I want stuff on this. And the business conversations have been going to IT saying, make the change. Where IT used to be the master, right? So how do you grok that? I mean, you've seen both sides. You've seen the IT world, IT centric world from mainframe to client server. And now we have a real time world. The interesting thing about the dynamic you just described from the dynamics of the industry is the only thing that was close to the CEO having the iPad in my history was back in the 80s when it was initially an Apple II and then it was a PC and you were trying to sneak something into a spreadsheet. I'm sneaking that into the enterprise. But at that time, of course, the IT guys were like, no, no, no. So this time instead of having it come in from the bottom came in from the top. And then the IT guy said, well, he's my CEO. What am I going to say, right? So then what he does is he says, okay, okay, okay, we'll put a special SWAT team on it, right? And we'll surround the CEO with services and he'll have a good experience. But then the CEO goes, great, now I want it for all my Salesforce. And the IT guy goes, oh my God, I don't have that many people. So all of a sudden this bring your own device is what everybody's calling it this year. This BYOD movement has put enormous pressure on the CIO. Not in, not particularly in relation to Hadoop. This is more just around just pure infrastructure, wireless access, authentication, security, those kinds of things. But the next step up is going to be, look, you know, we need to make this more modern infrastructure and you know, we see what Amazon can do. We see what these guys are doing. If we don't get on the ship, we're going to get in trouble. One more question on that because, you know, the question the people are using when I was growing up into the business world around, you know, launching a product, getting to a market. But now with all the web apps on iTunes it's a rocket ship. There's no cash. This is an important thing.  So crossing the chasm is a great B2B model. So for Hadoop it's perfect. It's going to march exactly like that. But if you look at the businesses that can spin up on the web, it's all about the tornado.  It's horizontal from birth. And if you don't get a million users within X amount of time, it's like if you stay up. So we have a new model for that around what does it take to spin up a business on the web. But it's not about the chasm. Yeah, because exactly it's different dynamic. That's right. That's exactly right. So talk about from the perspective of an enterprise who maybe isn't an early adopter when it comes to big data, but you know, the IT group, some of the businesses, they're getting pressure from the business from the top. The CEO hears about Hadoop, doesn't know what it is, but you know, hears about some of the high profile use cases and wants to be one of those early adopters in an enterprise that maybe traditionally is not an early adopter type company. How do you make that transition? How do you kind of change the culture so that you can adopt a new technology like Hadoop? It's hard. In the early market it takes a visionary line of business executive. So if it's going to be the CEO, it could be the executive vice president, but it's somebody who's going to move a big chunk of budget from wherever it is today to sponsoring this new thing. And so you got to be fairly powerful to be able to move that kind of budget, right? And it's not the CIO. It's usually somebody else who's got budget that they give the CIO. So the CIO and that person are going to bond at the hip. If that person doesn't exist, I think it's a mistake to try to do an early market project. What you'll do instead is you'll do some pilots, you'll do some testing. What you're really trying to do is vaccinate your IT organization to give them experiences of this new irritant or this new whatever is for an object. But then where you will get on to what I think is the second step, the chasm crossing step, which is, okay, look, this is new technology. It's not really ready for prime time, but we have a major problem right now. Like the guy from CIRS was talking about, we can't solve the problem with existing infrastructure. So we're under enormous pressure. We've got to do something. Let's try Hadoop. And if you discover that there's a use case that is recurring, that everybody says, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have exactly the same problem. Hadoop? Really? Okay, I'll try it too. And that's when you get that first, because pragmatists love to do whatever they see anybody else do. And once they all start using it, it really does take off. Jeffrey, so I want to ask you about startups, because I live in Silicon Valley, I used to live in Palo Alto before you came on. I'm a venture partner of Moore-David Apple. So you're exposed to the inner circle of VC, which is now becoming open source a bit with Y Combinator. So two questions. What do you think of this whole Y Combinator, go to school, guaranteed check of $150,000 if we're getting accepted, basically a filter to startups that are in this environment, both, because there are big data people here that have a consumer feel. You mentioned Solconn, a big fan of Khan Academy. We have Silicon Academy going with our group. All this is going on. And there's a rapid start-up opportunity. So what's your advice to them? Comments on the Y Combinator dynamic. Okay. Is it democratization? Is it changing guard? I think the Y Combinator play is a function of the fact that there's this new non-Casim crossing model. You cannot get seed money to cross the cash. You can't get 1000 seed money. But you can potentially start one of these tornado machines. It's like shilling for oil, right? It is. You can start one of these tornado machines and get them going. And so the Y Combinator thing is saying, look, let's get the right people in the right place and the odds of any one of those initiatives being successful are low, but the odds that something successful will come out of it are pretty high. It's roulette. It means roulette. Start up roulette. But by the way, only here. So I go to lots of other cities around the world. Everybody has some incubation idea. It doesn't work any place else. Well, Harvard, iLab, maybe Boston, but honest to God, you go other places and it's something... The density of... It doesn't even work in this Bay Area if you're too far away from the episode. Even in the Bay Area. There's just something going on here. I don't know exactly how to describe all the magic, but it's a unique to this area. So that just is what it is, right? So anyway, that's the... So for the start-ups that are here, because it's a little bit across from the chasm and tornado combination, because big data affects media, you mentioned all the little verticals. Big data is chasm stuff. You have to do it at scale. So how does a start-up deal with this now? Is it classic? Again, it's a rapid funding environment. We're seeing seed funding for these guys now, the box, $3 million. Well, those guys are typically somebody like I was talking this morning with Rami Stata. Of course, Rami was at Yahoo from the beginning. He's got a new company starting. But you know, Excel, you know... What are those guys? They don't want to get into that. So if there's a kind of a set of people who have kind of been there, done that, we're going to attract capital at one level. Then there's going to be a bunch of people who say, well, nobody's ever heard of me, I have this idea. The Y Combinator path is a place to start. But at some point, you're going to say, look, I've got to get somebody else to buy in. That is a chasm to cross, too, right? Because venture capital is... You know, it's under a lot of pressure itself, right? And so getting funded is... It's a journey. And so sometimes you have to team up with people that have been there before and say, you know what, maybe this time I should ride shotgun and not necessarily ride a horse. I do think it's important to participate in the trend that you care about. Whether you're the leader or the follower, I think if I'm... My main advice to a young entrepreneur is get in the game somehow. Has social media and social networking obviously we're doing social TV here at the SiliconANGLE theCUBE, kind of our sports centers we call it. But everyone's connected now. You mentioned digitization, but you also have another dynamic and edge participant, an actor, a person with a smart phone and they're connected to everybody. So how does that change some of your research over the years and on your thinking going forward? Well, what it's done, I mean, it's changed the dynamic of markets particularly... Well, it's interesting. Obviously it changed consumer markets, media markets in particular. It's clearly changing political markets, particularly Arab Spring kind of stuff. I think it's changing the sports experience, the fan experience, a bunch of those kinds of things. I think there's going to come a point where it's like... Education? So education is, boy, I hope so. The problem with education and healthcare, both of whom could really use this dimension, is the institutions are so conservative and they're so politicized and they have so many different kind of constituencies which are a little bit at odds with each other. It's hard for this... Yeah, I was talking to an entrepreneur who had a $20 billion earmark fund for people who digitized documents. We were talking with the folks at HP last week and the entrepreneur said to me, John, I love that idea, but I got to spend money to actually start digitizing documents before I can get the money. So he's got to spend 10 million to get a chance to get us over that money. That's not money. I think waiting for the government to fund you has not been part of the Silicon Valley playbook ever before. I don't think it should be now. There's some places where if you intersect with them, clean energy or clean tech or healthcare or whatever, great. But I would never go... I would never divert one step from my path to go get government money. We're here with Jeffrey Moore, a famous author of many books. The famous ones are Crossing the Chasm, Inside the Fault Line, a bunch of other books, Management Consultant, VC Partner, Ed Moore, David Howe. Comments on something magical about Apple Computer because Apple has gone a complete turnaround so obviously it's well documented. But you've been in the valley. You've seen many magical acts before. Intel, we've seen ecosystems and just industries being born. Mobility, Nokia, all these guys with the leaders, and all of a sudden Apple comes out of nowhere, the iPhone in 2007 changed everything. Talk about the Apple effect on everybody. It actually started with the iPod before the iPhone and then the iPad afterwards. So what happened was Steve comes back in Apple in 1997, the company's on its back. Arguably it has no earnings engine.  And I think he had the perception, I'm going to turn this into a consumer electronics company. I think that was an intent. There were no consumer electronics of companies of his style at all. Maybe Sony. No, not maybe. In fact, Sony was. The vio, yeah. Sony was. That's actually true. But more importantly, before that, the Walkman. Think about iPod Walkman, right? Solid-state memory, by the way, in the iPad. So Steve did the thing he was able to do three times was design something where essentially he was the speck and he would create these things that were just so elegant and so amazing. But not alone, that's just a hits business, right? If that's all you do, the next hit comes along. What he did there with the iPod though, because he had had Pixar, he was at Disney. Because Disney bought Pixar. Because he was at Disney, he had access to the four music publishing labels that mattered. He got all four backlists into iTunes to get onto the thing. Well, how did he do that? Remember, there was Napster. So the idea was, you know, the last thing these guys wanted to do was actually be 99 cent songs on the iPod. But that was better than being free on Napster. And they thought, well, you know, how much harm can it do? Well, okay, it completely re-engineered the world. So now all of a sudden you have this Apple who has this amazing earning engine with phenomenal margins with this iTunes back in. Now, remember at that point, Motorola said, well, let's put iPod on the phone. So there's going to be something called Rocker, which was a phone with iPod on it. So Steve takes that and he says, no, I'm going to make the iPhone. Now he does it again. He creates a device that is so alluring that for the first time, the carrier industry has to come to Cupertino. The way the music industry had to come to Cupertino. That never happened before. The device guys always went to the carrier industry. So all of a sudden he's got this incredible power. So that's number two. And then he takes the iPad as number three. So basically in the space of a decade, he went from no earnings engines to arguably four mega earnings engines. Each one of those things is kind of a business itself. And there's kind of some positive synergy among them. So yeah, I mean stock price went up 5,000%. And so given that, so the final question is we're getting the hook here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about that context. That truly is a magical time in history and always be remembered and RIP for Steve. But for this new generation of big data guys, how do they take that lesson? What can they do with that? I'm not sure that Steve's the right lesson there. I think the lesson me with the big data guys is look, this is a sea change from a world where digital was a record keeper to digital is the world. And in that context, you need to wire an entire nervous system. So the internet was like the spinal column. Now we're trying to get the nerves all the way out to the fingers. That's big data and analytics. It's so fundamental. So it's an infrastructure problem. It's not going to be an overnight success. But it's an inevitability. And then the question is, can you be part of this? Can you be part of the nervous system?  Can you be one of the ones that's like in there at the end? If you are, you'll be an Oracle or a Microsoft or an Intel. Final comment about people that are incumbents in these markets. You mentioned the government, we don't talk about that, but like the leaders, the incumbent players are going to be threatened. What's your advice to those guys? Well, those guys, the classic thing that we ask of incumbents always is look, you don't have to innovate. We're already married for God's sake, right? You don't have to date me anymore. But here's what you do after you have to adapt. And so I ran into Mike Kohler. Terror data, right? Okay. Terror data could do one of two things. They could have said we're structured data, Hadoop's bad, terrible, fud, stay with us, stay with us, stay with us. Or you can reach out and embrace.  There's a lot of money in old business models that you get worried about losing if you embrace the new one too early. But on the other hand, if you don't embrace the new one, at some point your customers say you really are irrelevant. So it's a dance. I think the world says... To an art and a science, too. It is. But I think the world's kind of patient. They say, look, if you show reasonable good faith and make reasonable progress, we'll put up with the fact that you're walking not running. Jeffrey Moore crushing the Kazim inside the tornado, living in the fault line, VCs from Silicon Valley. Great commentary. We're here inside the Cube. We'll be right back with our next guest right at this short break.