What's going on everyone, I got a brand new video for you guys today and a lot of people always keep asking me, Zach, what do you pick up this month? You get so much stuff in your background, well, I'm gonna start doing this, I'm gonna do my Blu-ray and Pop hauls. Now it's mostly gonna be Blu-rays but I do collect some pops, I've kind of tried to tone it down but I have been getting some and I actually got a lot more this month than I thought I did. So let's discuss it. First we're gonna start with my pops, go into this and also guys make sure to share down below what was your favorite thing that I collected this month and also what did you collect this month? Did you collect any cool pops or Blu-rays? Let's talk about it down below in the comments but of course let's get this started. First this is one of the first pops I got this month, Agumon, Digimon, I'm a big Digimon fan. I love Agumon, he's one of my favorite like just characters from that show and I was really glad to see that they finally got Digimon. I am still looking for Gabumon though so I'm hoping I can find him soon but yeah, Agumon's a great one. We got the Brave Little Taylor, the Mickey's 90th anniversary pops finally came out. There's a ton more coming out but this is the Brave Little Taylor one. And then we have Conductor Mickey, really like this one. Of course we also have Steamboat Willie which is the one that I've been like dying for like the original is like $300 and I really want that one but man I'm just glad that I have finally had something to represent in this room at Steamboat Willie. It's my favorite cartoon of all time and I really hope they make a pop ride of him driving the ship. I think that'd be really cool. We also have Firefire Mickey which this one's really cute too. Then I'm a big Mickey Mouse fan, again Steamboat Willie is one of my favorite cartoons of all time and I've just really enjoyed that. But then we also have Apprentice Mickey with us of course from Fantasia. This one's adorable too. The original Fantasia is like $300 Funko Pop and I actually prefer this one more with the bucket so I like this one and I hope we get maybe a pop moment of him on the hill with Charnauribol, I can never say the name right. But also they've been doing these director lines. Of course you can see Tycho Wattidi and James Wong behind me but I also have Alfred Hitchcock which this one is one of my favorites that I've gone. I like a lot of Hitchcock's films but I didn't grow up on them but I think the pop is really cool having to cycle a little clack board on there. Then I also got one of my favorite directors of all time, Del Toro. I was so happy to see this was a comment. They make some of these so many exclusives. I'm missing two director pops now which is James Gunn and Paul Feig. I plan on getting those one day. I just can't buckle down and spend $300 on each one of them. But Del Toro really liked this pop. And one of the last ones I also got was from the Funko Shop it's the Snap Crack One Pop. These ad icons I have a love-hate relationship for. I really want to collect them all but at the same time they're hard to sell to get because most of them are off that Funko website and it's like a race to get them all. I have like five other ones and then I just got King Ding Dong that should be coming in next month so yeah I really like the Snap Crack One Pop. I think they're pretty cute. Now moving on to the next one. This is the one that I hate when Disneyland does this but I love all their pops and this is the new Haunted Mansion one. I already have all the other Haunted Mansion ones behind me. So this was an easy one that I had to pick up. It was Ezra in the buggy. I think this one's awesome. I just love the whole buggy. In fact Haunted Mansion's one of my favorite rides there so I adore it. And then if you can't see this little splash mount one. I do have the Boxer but I took it out because I just love the pop so much. I love this ride and the characters and I have to have it. I might as well mention this Batman Beyond statue I also picked up this month. I love it like I love that statue so much. It's literally like 30 bucks and it's that's what I got it for it was a great deal. The last pop I did pick up this month was the Red Skull vs. Captain America movie moment. This pop is badass. I think the first Captain America is very underrated film but I just love the look of it. Red Skull is a cool character. Captain America and they're just facing off in the battle sequence and I love it. This is the pop that you guys need to pick up. Now we move on to the other things that I picked up. Of course this is my Blue Rays. Now I do have two video games mixed in here because two great video games did come out in September and they are on Blue Rays so I might as well mention them. That is Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I love this game. I think it's the second best in the whole trilogy if you've never played this trilogy it's worth your time and of course Spider-Man. I love this game. It's my favorite game of this year even over God of War hell it I don't know it's going to go back and forth for those but I just love what they did with the portrayal of Spider-Man here and I adored it to all heavens. Now going into my Blue Rays I have Den of Thieves, a film that I've been wanting to pick up. It was like ten bucks at best but it was a no like a no duh deal to pick this one up. I love Den of Thieves. I thought it was a blast. The first time I saw it I was a little bit iffy on it. I said I didn't feel like all the crime elements were there then I watched it again and I was like I don't know what the hell I was talking about. This game this movie is a blast to watch but now I finally got a steel book and a 4k that I've been wanting to pick up for a while but I couldn't warn it but it was on sale. Usually 40 bucks but I got the Deadpool 2 year anniversary 4k steel book for the original Deadpool. Of course Deadpool is one of my favorite films of all time. I think this is the masterpiece of a superhero film. I know some of you guys think it's kind of overrated but I don't. Deadpool is one of my favorite superheroes and this is definitely one of my favorite films and I just love the steel book. It's definitely better than the original one but as a 4k I needed the 4k for Deadpool. I also picked up Moon from Zia Records. If you guys are ever in Arizona or the Las Vegas area go check out Zia Records because most of my movies come from Zia because you wait a couple of weeks and you go in there. There's tons of movies to use and you get them all. Moon. Have not watched it. I need to though. It's the only film that I haven't seen by Duncan Jones so that he's made so I need to really watch this and Sam Rockwell is a really underrated actor. American Animals. Most underrated film of this year. Well one of them. There's actually quite a few underrated films in the year that I gotta talk about but American Animals is fantastic Bart Layton the director is going to be a superstar. Count me in right now. Another 4k. I picked up American Psycho. One of my favorite films probably my favorite Christian Bale film. This film is just so good if you've never seen it check it out. It's a great film to watch during the Halloween times. I also picked up Blockers. Now this film says it was $13.99 but I actually got it for $5 and Blockers is a really underrated comedy this year. I had a blast watching this. I didn't think it was as funny as some people said it was but I thought that dynamics between the younger kids in here were super hard. This is really like the girls version of super bad and I really enjoyed that aspect. The other thing I got picked up was the Jurassic World collection. This is all five Jurassic World movies all on 4k. This is the steelbook version and I really liked the steelbook. I had to pick it up. I know some people weren't the biggest fans of Fallen Kingdom. I enjoyed it. I thought it was fine. I thought it was a little disappointing towards the back half. But I wanted to get the first Jurassic Park in definitely Jurassic World and Jurassic Park 2 on 4k. So pretty much it was like three out of the five films I absolutely really enjoy. Even though I kind of think Fallen Kingdom is a better film than the second one. I don't know. Maybe that's just my opinion but I'm just being honest. You get to it. My other 4k I picked up is Hereditary. This is one of the best horror films in the last couple of years. Definitely one of the best films of this year. Tony Collette gives one of the best performances of this year. Really really really good movie. I cannot wait to rewatch it. I know some of you guys hated this movie. I get the hate. If you hated it, I understand. If you loved it, I understand. You just thought it was fine. I understand that too.  Then we get to the Alien vs Predator, the double feature.  I picked them up so I could do my ranking of the Predator. Now we go to a 4k movie that I still have not watched. It's Gladiator. This is one of the films that is not in my filmography and I cannot wait to watch it. I plan on probably watching it later this week but I can't wait to enjoy my time with Russell Crowe and Walking Phoenix. Now we get to one of my last 4k's as well. It's going to be Halloween. This is John Carpenter. This film just came out. Man, I wanted to prepare for the original Halloween. I have not watched this film since I was probably like 12 years old so it's been a long time and I barely remember it. Man, I love this film.   If you've never seen Halloween, this is the best time to pick it up before the new one. Pick it up. The 4k is the way to go. It literally looks stunning. I cannot, like 4k has done something. I was really against it at first.  But you know, we also got tagged this month. I love this film. This film made me laugh. It was heartwarming at times. I thought the cast was all great. I actually do really want to sequel with this cast. Involved. The same scenarios that they're going through. It is a blast of a film. It's a film that you definitely, if you missed this comedy, go check it out. Between this and Game Night, we are having a fantastic year for comedies. And one of the most underrated films this year, Upgrade. I love this film. Came out of it. I gave it a B minus C plus time thing. Then I sat on it. I sat on it again. I'm like, man, the action here is incredible. I think my only issue with the film is really the ending. I thought it was a little bit cliche and a little disappointing. But overall, I think the action, if you want a good B rated sci-fi action thriller with some mortal combat action in there, Upgrade is for you. And it carries a fantastic performance by Logan Marshall Green. Now another 4K that I picked up is Tomb Raider. Alicia Vikander is Tomb Raider. I got this for actually, again, at Zia for 15 bucks. It says $21.99, but it was on sale. So I like this film. I enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of the Tomb Raiders, of course, that you saw from my video games. And we might as well talk about the other 4K I picked up, Laura Croft, the Tomb Raider, Angelina Jolie. This is probably my favorite one. I know it's more of a guilty pleasure, but I enjoy the hell out of this and I think it's a ton of fun.  Then we go to one of the films that I actually got sent, of course, by Sam Ashawn Films to review. And that's Tucker and the Man of His Dreams. This is the first time I ever watched it. It starts Jeff Bridges. It's the 30th anniversary and it's a Francis Ford Coppola movie. It's almost good. It was indecent. Jeff Bridges gives one of the best performances of his career. I like it and if you've never seen it, check it out. Now here's another 4K that I picked up at Zia and I got this for not even joking, $10 for all three of these movies. Spider-Man, the limited edition Spider-Man trilogy, Sam Raimi's trilogy, the Holy Bible right here, my friends. I enjoy three. Three is fine. There are some problems with it, but man, one and two, as much as they're not like I don't think some elements hold up to them. This is still a fantastic watch and I have so many nostalgic feelings with this Bible. Move on to one of my favorite and probably one of the most underrated films of Guy Ritchie's filmography and that is Rock n' Rolla. I've never seen this film. It's enjoyable. It has that Guy Ritchie dialogue. It has Dr. R. Butler. It has Tom Hardy in one of his first performances and it even has that guy who played Victor Stone. No, not Victor Stone. That's Justice League. It's the dude. It's Dr. Doom from the new Fantastic Four stick. It's a great actor, Toby Kebble that no one talks about because he's always in crappy movies. He's in this and he's fantastic and Mark Strong also shows up in here. I really like that. Here's another steelbook I got. This is actually, I'm not joking, it's Glow in the Dark. I really like the steelbook. I think it's one of the most cool steelbooks. I've been wanting to pick up Nightmare for Christmas on Blu-ray for a while because I've only had the DVD, but it came out on steelbook. I found the steelbook. I thought it sold out, but I found it and I was like, oh hey, that's a cool thing and I like the insides of it really well. And I haven't gotten the watch yet. I know my sister watched it, but I can't wait to check it out myself. And here's another steelbook I did get. I did get the solo steelbook, just a 4K version. I get it. People don't like the movie that much. I thought it was fun. For me, I think this film is the definition of what a Star Wars, when it says a Star War story, this is a Star War story. It's a definitive adventure, a fun adventure to that and solo is a blast to watch. If you've not checked it out, go check it out yourself. And of course I also did get sent these last two movies and I obviously bought versions for them because I already had them pre-ordered, but it was so low on Blu-ray, I got this to review and it was a lot of fun going through the special features. I would have liked a little bit more of the background things of Ron Howard coming in so late, but I know they're not really going to get into that. And then Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom, again, I got the sentence on 4K from Universal, of course, to Sandwich on Films. I liked it. Again, you already got my thoughts from the steelbook version, but I liked it. I liked it. I'll leave it right there. So, but guys, that is my September haul. Tons of stuff.  And that's what's being, that's what's great about being a nerd. You spend money on stuff that we don't need, but we really do want. Guys, tell me what your guys' thoughts are on this haul. What is your favorite thing that I picked up? What's your favorite thing that you picked up? Let's talk about it down below in the comments. If you're new here, hit up Sandwich on Films also down below because we also do giveaways. We do advanced screens. We do movie news and even movie reviews over there. So you guys do not want to miss out on that.  Phoenix Film Festival is coming up. If you guys live in Phoenix, make sure to go check out out. And of course, guys, if you're new here, hit that like and subscribe button to and of course, until next time, stay classy.


At the speed of light, a cloud of dust and a hearty high old silver, the Vaughan Ranger. With his faithful Indian companion, Tonto, the mask rider of the planes led the fight for law and order in the early western United States. The stories of his strength and courage, his daring and resourcefulness have come down to us through the generations. And nowhere in the pages of history can one find a greater champion of justice. Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear. From out of the past and the thundering hoofbeats of the great horse Silver, the lone ranger rides again. The little town of Jack Pine crouched like a starved and fleabitten dog at the foot of Snake Mountain. Its ramshackle wooden buildings were gray and lifeless after years of a losing fight with burning sun and alkali dust that blew in from Chickasie Basin. Its citizens, too, were grim and weather-beaten. Over a hundred ranchers and dirt farmers would homestead at the land ten years ago, only to discover that rain was an unknown quantity and that artesian wells ran dry. Land without water means nothing. They'd repeated that phrase to themselves a thousand times. And now, gathered in the Saddle Rock Cafe, they were hearing it again in the lips of a tall, frock-coated easterner. I ask you again, gentlemen, what good is land without water? I'll answer my own question. It's no good. Land without water means nothing. Your cattle are dying because they can't graze on cactus and mesquite. Your crops are scorched in the ground before they even get a chance to grow. You ain't telling us nothing we don't already know. Is that why you asked us all to come in here today, Mr. Denham? Oh, no, of course not. I've merely stated a common problem. I also have a solution for it. Yeah? What is it? As you all know, because I've made no secret of it, I represent an eastern land syndicate. If you want to sell your land, get out of this dust-bowl basin. I'll buy it. How much will you pay?  It didn't cost you anything. Now it's worth even less than that. I'm giving you a chance to move out with your household goods in stock, plus a thousand dollars in cash. What do you say? I say it's a good deal. Fine. Good. I'll just to keep the record straight, I'll have Kless Harlow call out your names, and you can give me individual answers. All right, Kless. Sam Pruitt. Sure, I'll sell. Cal Thompson. Me too. Nate Simon. Yeah. Arkey Snowden. Arkey Snowden. I'm here. Well, what do you say? Before I say anything, I'd like to ask Mr. Denham a question. Well, of course. What is it? Well, if this land here in the basin is so worthless, how come you're willing to pay us all a thousand dollars? Well, that's a fair question. I'm glad you asked it. The reason my syndicate can afford to spend sixty thousand dollars for Chick-a-Ce Basin is because while the land may be worthless now, it's a sound investment for idle capital. Someday it may be worth more. That doesn't make sense. Oh, yes it does. But how can you... Stop arguing, Snowden. Do you want to sell out like the rest of us are doing? No, I don't. What's that? The ranch of me and my brother Frank had got over near Snake Mountain as ours. We homesteaded it. We're not going to sell. Oh, wait just a minute. I don't wish to enter into any argument. It's up to the rest of you ranch owners. If you're going to let Mr. Snowden stand in the way of selling something you can't use, that's your own business. My offer will hold good until a week from the day. Well, Kless, I'm going back to my room at the hotel. Meet me over there as soon as you can. Here as quick as I could, Mr. Denon. That's all right. What's happening at the cafe? Everybody's arguing. I thought he's Snowden. He still refuses to sell his ranch? I guess so. That's what he was saying when I left. Mr. Snowden is a very obstinate young man. He's a sneaking yellow-livered pole cat. All them Snowdens are. Say, that reminds me. Wasn't there some sort of a feud between your family, the Harlow's, and the Snowdens a few years back? Yeah. It kind of died out when Matt went to jail five years ago. Matt. Matt's your older brother, isn't he? Yeah. Quite a fighter? Matt's double-barreled poison. He'd have gunned all the Snowdens if the law hadn't caught up with them. It gives me an idea.  Machiavelli said divide and conquer. Machiavelli who? An Italian. He lived in the 16th century. And how could he tell you? Never mind. You wouldn't understand. I have some good political connections, class. I'm going to get your brother parole from territorial prison. Matt Harlow? Yeah. Warden wants to see you. I think it's a parole. Sure. I know it is. Yeah? Oh, come on. How come you know you're getting parole? Friend of mine fixed it. He's from my hometown, down to Jack Pine. I've got to work for him. That must be the big fella you was talking to, Warden, last week. What's his name? Phil Denham. Well, all I can say is you're lucky to have a friend like that. Yeah. Maybe he's the one who's lucky. What do you mean? The cat at job he once done calls for somebody named Harlow. And I'm just the hombre who can do it. Well, over a week, most of the farmers and ranchers of Chickasee Basin had tried to persuade the Snowden brothers to join them in selling their property. But the more the men argued, the more firmly the brothers refused. And grossed as they were in a heated discussion, no one noticed that two strangers had written into Jack Pine. Dan Reed and Tonto stood at the edge of the crowd. Hey, golly, Tonto. I wonder what's wrong? Oh, me not know, Dan. Men make plenty talk. Let's move in a little closer and see what it's all about, huh? What I can't figure out is why you two critters are so stubborn. No, we're not stubborn. We just don't want to sell. Isn't that right, Frank? Sure, it's all right, and we can do what we please with it. Yeah, you can starve to death on it like all the rest of us are doing. Well, if any of you ever stop to think there must be some reason why Phil Denham's willing to pay all that money for land, it's not worth anything?  Well, every spread in the base can be worth a lot of money. We had some water. But there is no water. Used to be a long time ago. There's a dry creek bed running through them drawers in Snake Mountain. Well, it's run dry. There will never be any water in that creek in New North. Maybe. Oh, somebody gonna perform a miracle and make it start running? Ah, you're even dumber than Archie. If your whole family was like you two, I don't blame the Harlow's for feuding with you. Hey, no, wait a minute. It says nothing to do with the old feud between us and the Harlow's. That's dead and buried. Yeah? Maybe since Matt Harlow went to jail and you started sparking that kid's sister of his, things are different, huh? Ah, you're more yellow than ever. Leave Martha Harlow's name out of this.  No, Frank, no, don't. Archie's right. We're not hashing over the Harlow Snowden feud. All we want to know is why you boys are standing in the way of the rest of us getting $1,000 a piece for our land. Well, we're sorry about that. Honest we are. I mean about not being able to sell your land unless we sell too. Well, those are Phil Dunham's terms. You were there when he made them. But when Maun Pawn Frank and I came out here from Arkansas and homesteaded that place near Snake Mountain, we intended to make it our home. Forever. Now, on a kind of a crazy feud with the Harlow's, the old folks are gone. But Frank and I are staying. Well, be your home for very long, Archie, without any water. Well, you may be right. Frank and I are hopeful that maybe someday there will be water here in the basin again. Still banking on that marigold? No, I'm not. But I'm not going to sell out the Phil Dunham or anybody else for $1,000. And that's final. Hey! Look who's coming down the street. Why, it's Matt Harlow. Matt Harlow? Thought he was in jail. I heard something about him getting a parole, but I didn't drink it. Harlow's in the Snowden's. There's going to be some lead flying, boys. All right, you yellow-buddy Snowden, could you step out of that car? It is, Matt Harlow, and I'm good. Well, Frank, no, don't draw it again. That's just what he wants you to do. Nobody like Matt Harlow can call me and yell and get away with it. Let go of my arm. No! And curtain three.  One, two... All right, man! Frank! Frank! I just... You... He's dead. There's one of them. I've got to slip for the other Snowden. All right, draw your Snowden. Now, you can see I'm not packing a gun, Matt. If you still want to shoot, well, go ahead. I forgot. You get Snowden, well, don't carry again, did he? All right, then maybe you'd rather get the barrel of this six-shooter alongside your skull. Come on. You wait. Matt, not there. You big fella, and you use gun. Him, small. Just have this. Red skin, eh? Listen, they didn't keep your greasy snood out of this. Me, not like that. Are you? Who's the red skin? Never saw him before. Say, whoever he is, he can sure punch. Look at that! Give it to him, Tunnel! I'll fix him. I don't know who you are, Indian, but I want to thank you for helping me out. Matt Harlow was swinging a gun in a few... Uh-huh. Me know. Is the engine a friend of yours, kid? Sure. You better tell him that unless he gets out of town before Matt Harlow comes to, he's dealt himself in on a feud. Well, that won't bother Tunnel. You see, this is kind of a tough spot for anybody named Snowden. The town was already set against us because we wouldn't sell our ranch. Now Matt's come back and killed my brother. Uh-huh. Well, me think it better we take dead man to ranch now. You get horse and go first. Me carry brother. Uh, what name a ranch? It's the Diamond S. Near Snake Mountain. Uh-huh. Dan, you ride to camp. Bring friend. Me help young fella. Sure, I understand. Steady, Victor. Steady, boy. Come on, Victor. Excited. What's wrong? Where's Tunnel? We stopped in Jack Pine. There was a big crowd. There was a man shot to death and Tunnel got in a fight with a fellow who killed him. He was helping a dead man's brother who didn't have a gun. Is he still there in town? What I left, he was going to ride to the Diamond S. ranch near Snake Mountain. That's where Rocky Snowden lives. Here's Silver. Snowden? I used to be a feud in this part of the country between the Snowdens and a family named Harlow. City big fella. It's worse than ever now. Matt Harlow's the man Tunnel had to fight with. Why did you say the Snowden ranch is? Somewhere near Snake Mountain. Come on, Silver. Get up, Victor. The curtain falls on the first act of our Lone Ranger story. Before the next exciting scenes, please permit us to pause for just a few moments. Now to continue our story. It was less than half an hour later. Tonto and Rocky Snowden had just finished the sad task of burying Rocky's brother in Little Hill next to the Diamond S. ranch house. Hey, who were those fellas? I don't know them. Hold it. My security was at the point you went to. But who's he? Last. An outlaw. I'm no outlaw, Archie. Hello, Tonto. How? Oh, then what are you wearing that... Hey, how do you know my name? He's a pretty big fella. Dan Reed told me. Dan? That's me. He also told me about what happened in Jack Pine this morning. I'm sorry about your brother. Yeah, Frank never had a chance. Tell me something, Archie. What's the real reason you refuse to sell your ranch? Just like all the rest here in the basin? There's not a drop of water on any of them. I know. But why is Field Denim so anxious to get this land? I've been wondering the same thing. He wants this place in particular because it's near the mountain. Maybe that's the answer. The mountain? Is there anything up there? Nothing but lizards and volcanic rock. Not even any weeds. Call your horse, Tonto. Uh-huh. Yes, Count?  Tonto and I are going to take a ride up Snake's Mountain. Who's Silver Horse? Oh, Tonto. Oh, Tonto. This is about as far as we can go up this dry creek bed on horseback, Tonto. Ah. The ground hits the horses and see how much further we can go on foot. Is that you, big fella? Uh-huh. What you look for, team of sabby? I don't know, Tonto. That's a trouble. Maybe nothing. It's worth a trial. Come on. Ah. Whoa! Whoa, boy! Why, sir? Archie, I've been almost crazy ever since I heard about what happened in town. Have you heard, Archie? No, it wasn't me that... I know, Frank. Oh, oh, Archie. If I could only tell you how sorry I am. That shot him in cold blood, didn't he? Well, there were a lot of witnesses, and I suppose they'd call it self-defense. Frank had a gun. Oh, it's terrible. Horrible. I didn't even know that Matt had been released from prison. Neither did I until he walked down the street. Then the Harlow Snowden feud started all over again. Oh. Martha, honey, I... I want to ask you something. What is it? About five years ago, I made you a promise. I promised I'd help to stop all this senseless killing by not carrying a gun. I know. Now I want you to release me from that promise. Archie, you mean...  To keep him from killing me. I hope you do. I wish you were dead now. He had no right to come back and start all this when we were so happy. Maybe it'll be best for you not to come over here. For a few days anyway. Not until after. You understand, honey? I'll do whatever you say. But, oh, Archie, please. Please be careful. I'll do my best. With a lonesome gun. Bye, Martha. Goodbye.  Look, Tutto, there's a shack made out of stone. Oh. No signs of life. Let's go in and look it over. Empty. Yeah. Nothing but a few cans of blasting powder. Maybe it's a minor storage shack that... All right, Rich. Get him high. Do what he says until we see who it is. That's better. I'll turn around. Well, I'll be... Mashed-out hooting an engine. What are you critters doing up here? We could ask you the same question. But you're not going to ask nothing.  Tutto, right above his head. What are you mumbling about? Before you pull that trigger, it might interest you to know that there's a coil rattlesnake on that ledge by the foot from your head. Nothing's going to strike. There. Even a rattlesnake isn't dangerous when his head's gone.  And just what I was going to plug you. Please don't think that's the reason I saved your life. Hey. Hey. I'll be out of here. That's a lot of plenty scared.  I wonder who he was. Well, the only result of our trip was an empty shack that would be killing a dead rattlesnake. Let's go back to the diamondous ranch, Tutto. Oh, that's strange. No light in the house. I wonder where Dan and Erky are. Strike a match, Tutto. Bamp on tables. Still warm. Yes, they can't be very... Wait a minute. Here's a note. It's from Dan. He says... Erky got a note from Martha Harlow. One of the cowhands brought it. She says it's important that Erky meet her at once near the Harlow ranch. I'm riding over with him. I don't like this tunnel. It might be a trap. Come on, we're going over there. Finally, we're let gag away from my mouth. At least I can breathe better. There's no way I can help you, Erky. My hands and feet are still tied. Thank you. All right. Wait a minute. There's somebody. Who's there? Who is it? You don't know me, kid. It's too dark in here for you to see. I'm Class Harlow. What do you want?  You mean, Tunnel? I saw him this afternoon up in the mountain. He and the mass critters saved my life. How did... They don't make any difference. I can't help either of them because I don't know where they are. But you're their friend and I can't help you. I'm crossing my own brother. What do you mean? I'm going to cut them ropes and let you both sneak out of here. Carl, I... Turn around so I can use this knife. Yeah. It sure feels better. How about you, Erky? Yeah. Walk straight ahead. There's a side door. Your horses are hitched to a cottonwood tree outside. Gee, thanks. No time for that, hurry. Matt and Denim will be coming back here any minute. Any boy? Come on, Victor.  Wait a minute. We better take a side trail until we... Oh, look. Dan and Erky snowed in the water. Oh, I can't believe it. Well, I am sure glad to see you. What's wrong, Dan? Matt Harlow, Phil Denim and almost every man in Jackpines after us. That note that Erky got was just a trick. They tied us up. We got loose. And Martha. Where is she? I don't know. I heard him say somebody had taken her to the shack in the mountain. I know. Come on, Silvus. Come on, Victor. You got that gun around. Martha, you all right? I will be if you untie my hand. Let him come up trail. Yes, we're in for a siege. Close the door and bullet. Then you keep that prisoner covered.  For the next 30 minutes, the lone ranger and his friends suffered a hail of lead as revolving rifle bullets ricocheted against the stone sheath. Are you all right, Martha? I'm safe enough. This dirt floor is cold, but I found a patch of grass here behind the door. What was that? What did you say? Nothing. Just this little patch of grass. Where? Let me see it. You're right. Grass growing up to the dirt floor of a stone shack. What? What does it mean? I don't know. It may mean that... Tutto, come here. Put your ear down there. Is it? Do you hear anything? Uh-huh. You're right, Kimus Abbey. What are you talking about? I haven't time to explain now. Quick, Tutto, bring me one of those cans of blasting powder. You do it. Open it while I hunt for some caps. Blasting powder is stored here. There should be some caps. Here, this little box. Are these what you mean? Yes. Hurry, all of you. Out that back window. Keep the prisoner ahead of you, Dan. All right. Let's go. Now, Tutto, I'm going to put my hat on top of this can of blasting powder. Now, open the door so they can see it. Come on. We've got a run for it. I'll do it. You've got the door open. Let him have it. I'll put that credit with the head on. Arc, you will explain it to you. I don't think you'll have any more trouble with the Harlow's or Phil Denon from now on. Neither do I. Thanks to you. Come on, Dan. Tutto.  We've got those crooks, Denon and my Harlow laced up down there. We'll turn them over to the law. I'm glad to hear it. You said you was figuring on a miracle. You sure pulled one all right. Oh, no, I didn't. It wasn't a miracle. Okay. I'm dying of curiosity. What happened? You remember that patch of grass you found in the Stone House? Yes. That was the only growing thing anyone's ever seen on all of Snake Mountain. And that meant there was water somewhere below it. Sunk in river, I guess. So when he put those caps in the blasting powder, it was to make sure that bullets would explode the powder and blast open the river. Check to see Basin will have plenty of water now after you've figured out. Wait a minute. Who's this he you're talking about? Is he the miracle? No. Just the Lone Ranger. You have just heard as a copyrighted feature of the Lone Ranger Incorporated.


When it's deployed in a medical device that has you know life-safety and other therapeutic functions So today we're going to talk a little bit about what you need to think about When you're using Linux or other open-source software in a medical device And when we talk about the things to consider that go into a medical device we talk about risk So we're going to talk today about reducing the risk of using Linux in a medical device So we'll start a little bit by talking about what does the medical industry consider to be risk management and Software and we'll talk a little bit about a concept called soup, which I'll go into some detail And then we'll talk about well, what does that mean when you're selecting an operating system and Then we'll go into talking about some other considerations about licensing data privacy cyber security and Managing a Linux distribution and hopefully at the end of all this you'll have a little bit better of an understanding as to what it means To want to use open-source software in a medical device and the things that you need to think about So let's talk first about medical risk management, you know, what is it? You know, what is the medical community think about risk? Well, it's a pretty Standard concept across many industries and and and from the beginning it looks very similar in the medical industry You know risk is a combination of the probability of occurrence of a harm and the severity of the harm So if you have something that is Unlikely to occur Then the severity is considered can be considered worse Because it's very unlikely to occur And we'll get into a little bit of that in a minute, you know And then risk management is basically, you know, your policies your procedures your practices to evaluate those risks understanding their severity and then controlling the risks and Monitoring them and the goal of risk management is to identify and control those risks to an acceptable level an acceptable level is an interesting term because it's not really defined and the reason that it's not defined is that The acceptable level only can be considered in context of the device. So if your device is, you know relatively benign in concept, you know, like a Testing device then you really don't want to have, you know, some kind of medical test be likely to cause a patient harm and So acceptable risk would be very very stringent because the harm Would outweigh the benefit Whereas if your medical device is, you know, a surgical robot that, you know, is going to Hopefully improve the likelihood of patient survival over and above where they started Then perhaps your definition of acceptable risk is a little scarier Because once again the benefit is much greater than the potential harm and when we talk about acceptable risk That's really what we're talking about is the benefit greater than the potential harm And risk management is used in many many industries It is part and parcel of the medical device industry. You can't do anything in medical devices without thinking about it So we've all, you know, if you've been involved in risk management You've all sit around a table with a bunch of really bright people And have talked about risks and how to manage them and all of that and it always goes down to some really unlikely thing that happened and and and a lot of time has spent, you know Don't do that. I think this this comic just comes pretty close to home for me because I've been in several of these and Anyway, so what is, you know, we talk about risk management and medical devices. Well, what do we have to do? Well, there's a standard ISO ISO 14971 which is all about risk management and medical devices And I'm not going to go into a lot of detail that ISO 14971 You can you can do that on your own time But it does require a device manufacturer to define a risk management process That looks for the hazards Estimates the risks controls the risks and then monitors the effectiveness of the risk control measures And then a big thing about it is that the risks aren't just things that might come from the intended use of the device but for what they call reasonably foreseeable misuse and So if you can consider in your device Ways that it could be misused that can cause harm Then you need to consider how to minimize those risks in the design and the development of the device And there are many ways to do that, but you can't just say, oh, no, you they're not supposed to do that So it doesn't matter Okay, and then you need to document everything you do and maintain that in something It's called a risk management file, which is actually not a file anymore It ends up being a bunch of documents that are part of the submission that you make to your regulators Before your device can be approved So the key points basically are what we've been talking about all realistic risks must be considered and mitigated to an acceptable level This is not really defined But you need to be able to justify your decisions about risk Because your regulator is going to ask about it Your lawyers are going to ask about it and by God if something goes wrong the courts are going to ask about it And this is not just true for software to follow up by you the person who's making the device But all third-party software that you might use as well So let's talk about that third-party software and in a concept called soup So soup is an acronym called software of unknown providence. It's one of my favorite concepts in safety software Because it basically says, you know, I've got software. It's generally available It wasn't really developed for the purpose of being used in a medical device An adequate documentation of the development standards are not available Now that's actually a very kind of key point there because adequate documentation Basically means was the software designed and developed to a safety standard like IEC 62 304 or IEC 6508 or ISO 26262 there are a bunch of them out there Right so so it doesn't mean that documentation to develop standards development standards does not exist Just that they don't map to a safety standard like 62 304 And soup can either be commercial or open source software And in in my in my role as as safety officer for Siemens embedded, you know I work with both open source and commercial software and and we handle them differently But the idea is the same And then if soup is to be used in a medical device, it must be considered throughout the life cycle of the device So when we talk about soup, right, what are some of the considerations that we have? Um, you know for soup. Well, you know soup has to adhere to the same risk management processes as the rest of the software on the device So if the soup might fail in such a way that can cause harm Then the then then the risk of that software failing that caused the harm needs to be mitigated Right and there are lots of ways to do it But you need to think about those things and and it will depend upon several factors, right? How is it used? You know, how is the soup used? What will happen if it fails? How robust is it? Right, you know, if you have something that's pretty robust that's been deployed in millions and millions and millions of devices Then then that is, you know, that is a key consideration when you're deciding to use soup in your device So something like Linux Might be known to be more robust Then say, you know a two-person graduate student project that was abandoned 10 years ago But it's still out there in github and might be useful Right, um, you know, how are they how are defects managed in the soup and how will it be updated? How will obsolescence be managed all of these things are required to be considered if you're going to use soup in your device And then when you decide to use soup the developer should consider those and other factors And this is true no matter what the soup is So what other things do you need to think about? Well regulators are are looking more and more for a lot of information about any open source software you're using your device And this kind of goes beyond the soup requirements that were mentioned on the last slide You know, some things that they may like may might look for right, you know How do you know that the development process for the open source software is high quality? Right, it's not just oh, it doesn't fail in the field It's got to be something that you can kind of look at and point to and say yes, indeed. This is high quality How active is the community? How do they manage defects? Especially security defects the The FDA in america and and regulators around the world are very focused on security and medical devices You know, what are you going to how are you going to manage updates of those open source modules that you use? Right, what is the maintenance policy of your open source modules? How long will the version that you use be maintained? And if if you want to continue to use a version of open source that is no longer being actively maintained by the community Then how are you going to manage cvs and defects for your modules in the future? So those are all things you need to consider So let's go back a minute and talk about okay. How do I come to the decision of to use an operating system in a medical device? It is in some sense similar to the decision that you make to use an operating system in any embedded device But it's it's a little more Important to consider because of the regulatory approval that must ultimately be made So there are a lot of considerations and I could have listed these considerations in any order possible And i'm not even going to talk about them, but you need to kind of say for my device, right? What's most important? right like if i'm making say a an MRI scanner Right, I probably am going to you know have enough ram and rom and whatever that that it doesn't really matter Right what the what the the ROM size and the ram size of the operating system is going to be Whereas if I have a very small device it may be a huge consideration. So it's all all in context But will my and if and if if my context is small Well, will my design fit because a lot of people when they think of linux think about say a desktop Right where you've got you know a gigabyte of ram or more and you've got All of this room and you've got a hard drive that can host everything You know and and and and really at the end of the day, right? No embedded medical device is going to look like that Because at the end of the day you want those things to be small with a small bomb cost So you need to kind of think about will I be able to fit my design on to My device based on the operating system I'm using and I might want to use an RTOS a real-time operating system It'll always be smaller than linux, but it will not be nearly as functional But you can also optimize embedded linux Smaller than you probably think unless you've got experience optimizing embedded linux, um You know, we've taken one of our linux products down to less than 32 megabytes to have a bootable Usable system doesn't have a lot to it, but it may be enough for what you need Do you have real-time requirements? Right? I mean real time isn't really fast fast is what linux is really really good at Right, but it's more marked by the impact of what happens if a deadline is not met Right, you know a point of sale terminal or something like that. It's not real-time Right doesn't matter if it takes, you know five five milliseconds or 50 milliseconds for something to go through Whereas like an autopilot or A robotic Surgical device right those are real-time right if I delay on acting on a changing input The the result can be catastrophic And so the real question then comes to what kind of real-time am I dealing with if I have no real-time subjective scheduling deadlines kind of depends upon what's going on that I don't need to worry about it I can use linux. I'm happy If I have soft real-time You know if my system can handle A few missed deadlines and a lot of systems a lot of safety critical systems can handle a few missed deadlines then I'm perfectly fine. I can use preempt rt. I'm good to go But if I have hard hard real-time where I can never ever miss a deadline That I need to think real hard about the use of linux or other of linux especially in that system And then here's a little bit just about preempt rt. You probably are already aware of this But preempt rt actually brings linux much much closer To that real-time goal that we were talking about that our tosses are well known for So let's move from there.  Yes, indeed I can use linux. It's going to fit on my device. I can Take advantage of all of the rich capabilities that linux and other modules bring on Let's talk a little bit about david data privacy You know and the challenge is really, you know, how can I deliver Devices that support innovative therapies and treatments while protecting user confidential data device security and caregiver networks Right. So basically In the us You deliver to the fda a 510k pre-market submission Uh, that basically then is reviewed by the regulator to determine whether you can Whether you can market your device And you must address security if you have network connectivity Now the fda gives guidance on cyber security For both pre and post market and then most of the rest of the world mandates similar requirements So making device secure requires consideration throughout the life cycle, right? You need to kind of think about it from the beginning When you're designing and developing the system to when it's deployed to when it's decommissioned, right? But many of the considerations come up front, right? How are you going to protect the device against issues that are known before the release? Right if you're using software Uh, especially from the open source But even if you're using commercial software, if you're writing it all yourself Issues will be found while you're developing it. So how are you going to manage those issues? Um that you become aware of before you release How are you going to protect against issues that come up later? Right if you're using especially if you're using um Commercial or open source software issues are found all the time And they aren't all known at the time you really release your product And so you need to kind of consider what you're going to do about it Right and then you also need to think about how you're going to make it difficult to exploit the device after release because the device has a lot of data on it that would be damaging if it was Put out into the public and you would be subject to HIPAA and other violations You know data privacy is a huge deal in the medical world today You know in 2015 kpmg looked at this and said 80 percent of health plans and health care providers acknowledged that patient data had been compromised And even in 2015 there was a lot of cyber related investments that have been made So you would think well between 2015 and today things have gotten so much better Well, the department of health and human services office Showed 686 data care data breaches of 500 more records just in 2021 right just last year And that was almost 45 million health care records were exposed or stolen Which made 2021 the second worst year in terms of breached health care records Well, you know, we didn't have that much to do in 2021. So people got interested in things No, no this data is valuable. It's valuable to the bad guys And and your device needs to protect that data to the greatest extent possible Because HIPAA the health information portability and accountability act requires it As do laws and regulations around the world such as the gdpr and the eu Which if anything is even more stringent than HIPAA So there were a number of considerations that you need to think about right, you know, you have access control Right, you know, if you considered the various role your device supports and have you basically Limited your system resources and capabilities based on those roles using something called the principle of least privilege Basically that every role you define Should have the minimum amount of privilege required to fulfill the role So if the role requires, you know, complete access to the system, that's fine But you need to make sure that that role is very tightly controlled And then passwords right, you know, if your device uses passwords for access control, you know, what are the default usernames or passwords? I mean, you know, I got a Router for my house not that long ago That had a default username and password that was something like user and password If you build that kind of thing into your medical device And you don't somehow require it to be managed before the roles are unlocked Then you're opening yourself up to be exploited by the rest of the world Lack of password management is a significant security hole in many devices You'd be, you know, if you're if you're if you're always thinking about security, you would think that this is crazy But I've seen many examples of people that really don't consider this at all And that leads to a lot of problems You know, and then other considerations, right? Can you can you securely boot your device? Is it protected from tampering?  To protect the device there's a lot of good Hardware security capabilities, but if they're not used then they don't exist And then encryption, you know as your data encrypted Is it secure? Is it secure at rest when it's in storage? Is it secure in use? And is it secure when it's transmitted to another device, right? Or are you just leaving that data out there so that it's easily snooped? And then the thing about security and open source is that because the source is open It's known to the worldwide community And because the worldwide community doesn't include all good guys, but many many good guys and many many good guys are thinking about security Many security vulnerabilities are are found by People with good intent and are publicized to the world through something called common vulnerabilities and exposures or cvs It's a joint effort of mitra corp in the national vulnerability database of the united states And you should verify that no known cvs are in your device before your release Now that doesn't mean that necessarily That no known cvs are in your device that might impact your device before the release And there are tools that can help especially if you're using open source There are the cve check tool. There are many other tools that are available both commercial and open source That can basically correlate cvs with the versions of open source modules that you're using and allow you to the review the results We'll talk a little bit more about cvs But the real problem with cvs is just the sheer number of them. There are hundreds of them identified every month every every week um And and keeping up with them is a bit of a problem, which we'll talk about a bit more And then Basically, how are you going to keep your device secure? You know the time to prepare is during design How are you going to securely update your device? Right? How often? How do you minimize downtime and protect user data while you're updating the device? It's really no longer acceptable to not update a network connected device unless Well, actually there's very few instances where it's acceptable So you need to understand how you're going to do these things Yeah, because your device is probably going to have a lifestyle Lifespan measured in years or decades right for talking about you know an MRI device that costs quite a bit of money You know, it's going to be in use for a long time and downtime is expensive Right, it'll have the effects when you release it that you don't know about today Right, no matter how much testing you do no matter how much analysis you do There's going to be defects and if you're using Third-party software, it'll have vulnerabilities, right? And it's not and they won't be known to the community when you release them So so that is what drives those needs up above Basically, these things are going to happen be ready for them and be prepared to do something about them So let's go back to vulnerability monitoring, you know, I talked about these cvs There's actually about 300 cvs identified every single week Now most of them won't be applicable to your device, right? You know, um, they might be used against older versions of the open source modules that you're using They might be uh, they might only be applicable to certain Targets or certain chips that you might be using You know, but you need to figure out which cvs might apply affect you and then because these introduce risk You need to do impact analyses to determine whether or not they're important, right? You need to look at every one of them and most of them will just be oh, nope I'm using a later version. Oh, nope. That's not my target. Nope. Nope. Whatever whatever whatever But some of them will be applicable And then you need to find the patches for those cvs if you're using linux or other open source now Linux the linux community is very very good about providing these patches Right and they sometimes support previous releases through like the yakto and debian projects Right, but then how do you handle your cv patches if the community no longer supports the version that you're using? Right that basically means you need to do the backport fix and maintenance yourself Right and then you need to constantly monitor right 300 every week So you need to constantly be looking at these things And then as above you need to think about how you're going to do these updates because your customers are not going to be satisfied if you're not going to be Taking care of issues within a reasonable amount of time once they're disclosed So let's talk a little bit about managing linux, right? If let's say i've gone through this whole thing and i'm going yep linux is for me It provides a lot of capabilities. It has You know ai and and graphical and other capabilities and modules that are designed to run with linux that i need Right, so then well what linux should i use? Well, you know, there's the octo project. I can go and download it. It's actively developed. It's got good documentation It's easy to customize You know i can use debian now debian is traditionally an enterprise class os But it has been You know, it basically is moving more and more towards embedded applications because the concept of debian Where there is just a binary out there That basically provides me all of the capability that i need and i don't have to manage How do i get to that binary? Is useful to a lot of people Right, so debian is becoming more and more important in the embedded world And more and more medical devices are at least considering debian offerings As as kind of the building blocks of their device And then there are older things like build route And then there are commercial solutions, you know, we have one our competitors have them You know, there are a lot of commercial linux solutions out there. So there's the octo project I'm not going to go into this. It basically talks about how one goes about you know Using and building the octo project You know debian started out as an enterprise linux os in 1993 If you've ever used deboon 2 you're using debian There are many many many other Considerations and there's a lot of documentation out there about debian And i'm not going to go into that in a lot of detail But the thing that you need to think about is how are you going to manage and support your solution? Right, you know, you have to you know using embedded linux and all of those other modules That's millions and millions of lines of code development tools tool chains everything right How are you going to keep teams from creating too many variants? It's very easy For an organization that is working on four different devices Each of which in a silo ending up with four different linux distributions That have been modified in a way that the source Changes that have been made can't be accepted by the community and have to be maintained by themselves You know, how do you manage the licenses? How are you going to test it? How are you going to support it? Right the community provides support for about two years right for a For a non-long you know long life version of of an operating system or of a module Uh, but like I said a lot of these devices have lifetimes that go way beyond that Right and how do you maintain it for the life of a product? It gets the cost of maintenance gets pretty high pretty fast if you don't think about it up front So what do I do? Right. Well, I need to define processes up front and ensure they're followed Um, you know, it's it's it don't over branch Right. Make sure you have a support plan in place. Right. How are you going to handle those bugs that we talked about? How are you going to monitor the community for violent vulnerabilities? How are you going to update your product? Right train and enable your team to to do the right thing So before I finish, I'll just talk a little just just briefly about what we do at Siemens embedded Right. We have two different Siemens Linux distributions as I meant kind of implied before one based on the octa project one based on Debian You know, we we support graphics enablement. We support broad processor support We support AI and machine learning. We support cve monitoring. We can do it for you um We can we can target um either of those Linux distributions to your device Right. We can help you we can either solve for you Or help you solve a lot of the problems that we talked about during the course of this presentation And like I said, I'm not going to get into it a whole lot But if um, if you're interested, you know, you have my contact information feel free So in summary Risk management is essential when developing medical devices that has nothing really to do with Linux per se Or with open source software per se, but it's just kind of everything that we do And then the use of soup can help reduce risk But it kind of adds things to be considered So you need to consider those things, right Linux is good for a lot of things, right other open source modules are good for a lot of things But there are still valid reasons for using an RTOS or bare metal in some cases and you need to think about those upfront, right Don't make the decision To go in a certain direction before you've thought about, you know, kind of more deeply what your device is going to look like Don't let your open source get out of control Right in managing Linux and tools is not a simple task. And so Think about it up front because if you don't think about it up front, it's going to um hurt you later on You know security never forget about security Follow a standard to find your risks and have a plan in place to address vulnerabilities You know, I talk to a lot of people Who come from the academic world and they have a great idea For an advancement that will help the world You know through the creation of some kind of new medical device And they and they don't think about security And it ends up hurting them at the end because then when they try to go and sell their device Either to a larger medical device manufacturer or on their own. They have no way to get it approved Right, but the key point here is Linux is used in safety certified devices today Right, it's pretty heavily used in those devices today Defying your risks follow certification guidelines Consider going with a commercial vendor. All of those things will make your life easier As you go through your regulatory process So if there are any questions, otherwise, thank you very much. My name is Robert Bates and um, this it. I'll take questions now


Shraam, you are watching NewsClick and 420 grams. As you can tell, if you have been following Indian football in any way at all over the past several decades, you will recognize the gentleman sitting to my right, Bhaijum Bhutya, former captain and one of the legends of the sport in this country. Bhaijum has today filed his nomination for the post of president of the All India Football Federation, the body that runs the sport in the country. An election that has been the subject of much litigation, controversy and has eventually resulted in a FIFA ban being imposed on India which is in force currently. We do not know of course how things will proceed in that direction but as per the orders of the Supreme Court of India and then followed up on by the committee of administrators, we have a schedule for elections to be held so that a democratic body can be put in place to run the day to day affairs of football in the country. And Bhaijum will be representing the players, a very important part obviously of the entire football ecosystem on whose labor, on whose efforts, the entire structure of football is built and it must be mentioned that both the committee of administrators as well as the national sports court of India is very strongly in favor of the inclusion of eminent athletes, professional athletes who have done well for the country in the actual administration of the sport. Bhaijum's nomination was seconded by fellow eminent players and he will be contesting against among others. Another former football player and former teammate of Bhaijum's Kalyan Chaube who has been nominated by the Gujarat and Arunachal Pradesh Football Associations for the same post. We will get into some of those details separately but we are here today to talk to Bhaijum about his candidature, what he is looking for from the office of the president of the All India Football Federation and how he thinks things will proceed in the coming days with all the litigation that is going on. Bhaijum thanks for talking to us as always. It's been an eventful day for you if you could start off by just taking us through how this nomination filing process went and all of those things. First of all there is a lot of confusion and still it is and the final verdict is still not given. Who is going to vote? Who is going to be in that electoral collage? It's still unknown but so far at the moment we are 7 to 2 of us 50% players and 50% state association at the moment. The yearning again is on Monday so we don't know what the yearning or what outcome it may be. So yeah it's been eventful because of confusion we were also not too sure whether we will be filing. Is it valid? After the FIFA van is the elections going to happen and who can nominate or who can fight elections? Is the dates all what Supreme Court? Is it still valid? So there is a lot of confusion but still we all went with the last Supreme Court verdict with the dates what was given and today was 19th the final day. So it was the last moment in things where everybody was rushing state associations to players so there is quite a lot of big crowd in the football house today. Just to quickly recap it on the 3rd of August this order came from the Supreme Court detailing what the schedule of elections will be and then of course after that the FIFA van happened throwing everything up in the air. And I suppose in that fog or the cloud of confusion that you were mentioning perhaps the process was engineered such that only some parties who are fully aware of what is happening will be in a position to file their nominations. Fortunately you managed to avoid bad eventuality and at least you and several other people are now in the running for that position. Yes so there was no clarity because once the verdict had happened on the 3rd of August as you happen then after that the van happened. So we were confused why was the van happening because Supreme Court FIFA wanted elected president elected member to come from any country and for us it was India. So we were going to elections and getting an elected member to represent India but despite that as well the van came in so we were not sure whether that election is still going to happen or nominations should be filed. So that confusion kept happening and obviously for as players we were not fully aware what is the real situation so anyway we managed to file it today. Players also tend to be in many of these cases the last to find out about how regulation is happening and what is going on in terms of these things but do you view it to begin with as a positive step that there is this desire to include players and do you think players can actually play an effective and a valuable contribution to the administration of sport? I am sure they can because first of all I think it is very very challenging for players to get into the system and to when you say federation is the state association's body when you are in state association through that you go to federation so federation is all about member states so if you look at the history as well you don't see in India either in state or in federation that the players have taken the lead either in state as a president or in federation and taken the lead and ran football in the state or in the country. Why is that not happening? I don't know but obviously it is a difficult system for the players to get in. So one of the reasons is that now yes football has been run by people who have been running football and it is for sure that not many players have been involved in that. So we have seen how they have run whether it is good or bad is up to people to decide and take their own call but you can see easily that players have not been involved and why they have not got into those positions is also a difficult system to get into it. So this judgment of Supreme Court obviously was a very welcome judgment for all the players and we felt that as players I think there is lot to contribute for the development of game in India not just by playing but also by coming into administration of Indian football and it is also at the way at the same time challenge for footballers to also prove that they can be good administrators because right now lot of people would say you know there is a lot of footballer you can't be good administrator you can't do this you can't do that. So I think people just try and discard in every way. So that is where I think we need to prove and to prove that the opportunity has to come in. And this was one of the good opportunity for any players to show and tell that footballers can be good administrator. One of the arguments that has been consistently made against players taking leadership roles in sports administration has been that to get anything done in India you need the support of the government and therefore so many politicians of various parties and various views have headed various sports associations around the country. Do you think that as a former player yourself in your experience when you have approached problems related to your sport in whatever shape that you have felt the need to have some kind of political Maibabs blessing in order to achieve those goals? See I think in India in anything there is politics involved and in every department or every field politics is involved and politicians and the politics play a major role. And we can see in all the sports and we can see even in AFF all India Football Federation elections. So obviously yes for anything to achieve it's sad but it's the reality. Yes politically you need that kind of political support to either win elections or if you want it for your sport to grow. So in a way I think it's not a good example and not the right system to do that. But I think if you have your road map, if you have your ideas, road maps and have your I think plans then I think it's possible to not get any politically political support for your events to succeed or football to succeed. And I think cricket has been doing that. But obviously cricket and the entire nation follows that. So I think football and not just football other sports as well. I think down the line we need to make sure that we run our football associations, state associations and the federations properly. So that we don't have to always go to political leaders for things to happen. So that is where I think it is a challenge again. But if we get our systems right then I don't think we should always go to politician to get one sponsor from some PSU or some corporates. Let's get our system right. Let's organize our leagues properly. Let's make sure that our tournaments are there. Once you do that I think then you can approach the televisions, the corporates and the sponsors to come in. As an outsider or as a neutral party in this one would assume that versus a candidate who has some political backing because that will always lead to somebody will be a supporter of one party, somebody will be a supporter of another. Versus someone like you coming into that position as someone who has always been associated with the sport and is first known for your role and contribution to that sport. Wouldn't one be more free in this case of the same kind of third party interference that has led to this entire ban? No, I would say and I would request that I hope none of the political parties get involved and I sincerely feel that they should not. And they should see that the best person goes in and also looking at the background and seeing the profile. Just not also playing. For example, our players in terms of playing, in terms of after playing, what is it done with football. So those kind of things are important to see and I hope the political people also would want to support the right person to come and make sure that the game goes forward rather than making it political. So I'm hoping that none of the political parties would try and get involved and hopefully I hope they all see that the best man wins and football is the winner at the end. You say that by what like one of the candidates is very much a member of the ruling party at the center and has been nominated by a state association, two state associations in fact. That are also in states where the BJP has the state government. So it does seem clear that at least the ruling party at the center has jumped into it like they have in several other sports you were mentioning cricket earlier as well. That is not also outside the ambit. So has football now, are we seeing this kind of interest in football because there's some understanding that it's achieved that level of nationwide importance and therefore we're seeing this kind of situation. See I only can say is that the football should be the winner and we need to make sure that the right people comes in and political interference would not be there and I hope it does not happen. Obviously as you're saying you know a colleague of mine Kalyan Chauvin is nominated by Gujarat Anand sir. But I hope also you know people in the political circles are aware that we should not let sports get into especially at least in terms of election and let the best person win, let the game win and come and support whoever is the winner. So I'm hoping that the political interference would not be there because at the end we all are working for the betterment of the game. So that way I hope it happens. So in that sense I guess depending on how things go you would be open to creating kind of a wider platform where everyone can come together, cigarette table, have a dialogue and discussion about what is needed and what should be the next steps forward. Yeah ideally I think sometimes I feel you know the election system in India should not just sports but even the main general election should be on lot of debates, leaders sitting on the coming, not sitting standing on the streets and debating about their policies and all that. And the voters can actually see what the plan, what their ideas is, what is it and then vote accordingly with the leaders there. So I hope that those things can happen but sadly it does not happen. So I can only say I don't know about others but I can only say that you know I would sincerely want to contribute for the development of football in India. And as a player I can only say that we've not had that opportunity for many many years or decades that players have been involved and are leading the state association and the country to contribute. So I think this is an opportunity and I hope that decision by FIFA of giving 50% reservation to players to vote would stand and we cannot contribute. On that point why because FIFA in its letter to the AFF one of the things that it has sort of rejected is the very same progressive step of including players in the electoral college that then get to elect the president and the treasurer and the executive committee. Given that this ban is now in place and the matter is going to be heard in the Supreme Court and the center it seems is also involved in the process and they asked for the next hearing on Monday after the filing of the nominations for that adding to of course the confusion that exists. Given that scenario and of course with the under 17 women's world cup coming up the sort of very narrow window that is is if the court turns around and says okay let's go back to the status quo as it existed before 2014 or whatever date they choose and the players lose this very hard one sort of right to vote. What steps next for you then as the candidate in question representing this section. So first of all I don't think FIFA would interfere on the electoral process saying that who should vote, who should not vote. FIFA's clear quote is it has to be an elected member you know and you can't have a nominated person heading the federation or any elected post. So that is one whether you have an army guy fighting a police guy fighting or a firefighter fighting or a club's fighting or a player's fighting it's up to that countries and the federation's court of the law and the court which they follow it. So I don't think FIFA would interfere in who should vote, who should not vote. It also has every country's got difference court or sports court or the laws that allows. There are countries which is ruled by kings. There are the countries which is ruled by military. So I think they do not interfere. So I don't see why FIFA would say that this many players can vote, this many players can vote. I don't think they would interfere in that. I think the country's court and law and federation's constitution is that they would not. Their only thing is that it has to be elected. So I don't see that FIFA's interference on that. So yeah, what was the second question you were saying? Now in terms of we don't know what is going to happen on Monday with the decision. So we are hoping for the best and we are hoping that the players representation is there in 50% what the Supreme Court's order was there. And we hope that again as I said earlier I am repeating that players representative is there and that players have the equalcy in contribution of Indian football. Because we have not had it for decades and decades. From the time federation started I think more players have had that opportunity. Either in state or federation. So it's a great opportunity for players to come and work for the betterment along with state association for the development of football. Well you have it I guess from Baiqing Bhutya straight from the horses mouth. Hope that on Monday when the Supreme Court takes up this matter again. They stick to their own order of August 3rd and go ahead with elections as determined by the court appointed committee of administrators. We will of course be covering this subject as long as it goes on. As we have been with everything that happens in Indian football. Monday the next update. Until then if you need to know or want to know more about all of the steps or phases that have led us up to this point. We've got a couple of other videos out on both news click and 420 grams. Detailing how things have gone since as far back as 2009-2010. Thank you for watching and thank you once again Baiqing for taking the time and all the best for whatever happens next.