Hello welcome everybody welcome.  These numbers are starting to get kind of high. I lose track after 21 actually, but Welcome guys. We're here with yes, we yet the sins or secar as the switch name is Kate and house On Twitter as well former wow community manager For those of you guys who don't know who? Yet the sins is who who secar is I gotta get used to calling you by by one name. Yeah But um, but yeah, basically he there's some YouTube videos. He's been on my stream. He's been streaming recently Secar was a part of the 800 or so employees who were recently laid off by blizzard and he was a big part of the the class community the wow community in general Obviously as a community manager, but specifically to the class of community. I know he he was a I would say our line of communication as far as community goes to to blizzard and you know Obviously something that a lot of people really upset to see happen. Of course I'm also here with stay safe TV tips out baby my co-hosts and This is gonna be a very good episode. I'm very excited. So yeah, actually Let's talk a little bit about how how we met for the first because the first time we met is actually kind of funny So those you guys who don't know the story many of you do I'm sure I used to stream vanilla private servers Do videos and stuff as did stay safe and undocumented servers undocumented And basically what happened was I ended up getting I Ended up getting striked. I got a I got a DMCA. I got a copyright ban after the classic announcement and it was myself and a few other guys stay safe was lucky he dodged the bullet but but Basically we we were like in a group of people and we were like, okay Like what do we do and then I said to stay safe and a couple others I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna try and ask around and see if I can get in touch with anybody from blizzard and You know, what are the rules like what can I do? What can I not do what we can do is for his content, right? right so like I Tried to discord DM a few people email this and that the one person who actually got back to me was Sikar it was Jithins and we ended up having a conversation that night and kind of like hey Like, you know, this is you know, we don't think you're a bad guy or anything like that Obviously, like it's just the way things go and it's like the legal side of stuff And he actually recommended to me to email somebody else to kind of like talk about a little bit more like What kind of content we can make and eventually that led to you know, and I basically said look I don't want to do anything. I want to put my channel in the best position that I can possibly put it in for classic I don't want to do anything to you know, ruin my relationship with blizzard. I'm not a bad guy I just kind of want to do my own thing and Just do things the right way to continue growing my channel and to keep doing the content that I want to do Especially whenever classic comes out and that's the same way stay safe feels that same with tips feels and When it came down to it it was hey, like you can't you can't do private server footage It's basically what it is like you can't you can't do private server stuff on video You can't you can't video that just because a DMCA stuff So I was like, okay We're gonna have to figure out a way to continue doing what we want to do and to continue to grow our channels the right way so that's kind of the Early part of like how classic has it started and actually we talked about the pockets But that's that's the only thing we talked about a few weeks ago, but um Yeah, so that's kind of it. I mean if it wasn't for either since kind of at least responding You know You know out of all the people that I messaged like who knows like what could have happened So yeah, I was really big sort of like the guidelines he gave us Probably saved you from getting more DMCA's and I've never got one saved me from getting my first one. Yeah No, like for sure. So that that was like a really big deal So yeah, if it wasn't for if it wasn't for that like who knows who knows what would be right now, but um, I still feel bad about it I still Know like we know like it wasn't it wasn't like something personal or anything, but yeah, that's that's kind of how we got to know secar that's how we got to know Caden and Yeah to be here now everything like since the classic announcement and Just saying everything that like you have put into the community like it's been a it's been a big part of oh, yeah It's been a big part of the development of classic for sure I mean so like I have a question for you real quick So you were sort of like from my point of view at least I think a lot of people's point of view You were like the go-to classic CM you were talking to talking the most about classic Is that something that you wanted to do or was that work delegated to you or how did how did that happen? So interesting enough. There isn't any specific community managers that are assigned to classic It's just okay I was the person who wanted to kind of charge into it and do it because I was Probably out of all of us. I think it was the most excited about about the project So I wanted to actually just I wanted to do it just because I wanted to do it And I kind of really was enthusiastic about it And it at least it kind of felt more genuine whenever I wanted to talk about it more I knew kind of what topics I wanted to engage about it or at least touch on when I could Versus, you know say the retail game even though I can talk about the retail game to a high degree and I still love it I just I also wanted to to basically be a part of the classic of the classic community as well because I Was one of these players that wanted it for that wanted it for years. Mm-hmm. I Funny enough, I actually didn't want it for the longest time until I think seeing the seeing the passion that actually you guys were still putting into this this game that actually doesn't Isn't officially supported and that's actually kind of what changed my perspective on it being like no, okay I want this now Mm-hmm, and I just kind of ran it the second I had the opportunity to start talking about it I just ran into it because I was like I wanted I want to do this Did you play back in vanilla? Do you have any fond memories of it? I did and I do my roommate who came with me out to California as well, but we're both from the We're both like middle school best friends still have still friends to this day and we met because of World of Warcraft He actually got me to start playing the game And he was a I believe he was a like level 40 hunter when I started and I've made a level one gnome rogue And I saw his pet and I thought he was a god and he like ran you through deadmines Stuff and like helped me help me like it going and I was like, how do you how do you get so good at this game? Like I don't understand And it turns out it was it's just another like 20 levels Levels and doesn't matter but like I didn't get to do any content vanilla other than playing with other people Which was the content like I didn't get into my first raid until burning crusade and second I got in there. I was like, oh, this is amazing Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah burning crusade. I think we've talked about it before like We're all big fans of burning crusade as well. So like it's that's something we're hoping to see hope of classics as well We're hoping to see that from Blizzard too Now the past few weeks been for you really since the I guess since everything went down Confusing and a little a little strange Sazer's confusing because it's the worst moment, but it's also like kind of like the the sweetest at the same time because mm-hmm I didn't expect any sort of response I kind of thought I would be like another one of the CM's that just kind of fade into the No, it fade into the black that no longer associated with wow kind of right isn't isn't really like I guess relevant within World of Warcraft anymore Right, which that's all they ever do is play. Wow. Anyway, so even though I don't even work at the company more I still you play this game Right still play it It's been strange like I didn't expect the the response that I got to the tweets I made or Even with the whole streaming thing. I Remember I was I think the day after I was having like one of the worst mornings ever It was the first morning. I woke up no longer being a part of the company, right? and I got messages from all of you got all three of you and Esfand will you Like I was even bad in bed And I didn't want to get up and I didn't want to like move And Esfand like encouraged me to like just get on discord and just talk with them And so me and you said and discord and just like chat it for like in two hours I think is what it was and you were like you should you should just you should just stream he's like just Take it as like a therapy thing just kind of hang out and chat like people would love it and it started doing that and it was Incredibly therapeutic and I've somehow grown to love this weird little thing that I that I've been doing it almost every day since Yeah, it's nice, isn't it it like it changes your opinion on gaming like Before I started streaming I could not play single-player games on my own But now I feel like playing single-player games on stream is almost as fun if not funner than multiplayer games sometimes Yeah, it's really strange Playing something like wow a lot of times when I'm doing stuff people are asking me questions because a lot of people get to ask I guess a blizzard former blizzard employee, you know, how The philosophy is or what do you think about how this is done or what's the actual story kind of behind it? So that's been kind of that's been kind of fun to kind of I guess peel the curtain back a little bit Yeah, everyone know more about how the sausage is made. I guess. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and hopefully we'll peel the curtain back a little bit more today, too Whenever whenever classic was actually first off before we do anything you're you're still under NDA, right? Yep, still it's pretty much the way like an NDA works is it's in per so It's just yeah, yeah, there's just certain there's just certain things like you you can't talk about because NDA and all that Which is fine, right pretty much can't talk about anything that isn't publicly known So once you guys know about it, then I can talk about it, but right that's really about it You should just tell us everything that you can't talk about so we know So Let's go and get into whenever what would you first find out about classic like classic was announced Two years ago now, right? It was it was at BlizzCon 2017. I got my years, right? It was announced I know what we've all talked about it. None of us expected it stay safe thought it was a joke I was playing Madden in my living room like tips was freaking out. I mean, it was just it was a whole thing, right? When did you actually find out when did you first find out about classic being a thing like this was actually gonna be something That's real. I found out about seven months before you guys did Seven months. Yeah, I counted about seven months before you guys did and when they told us I also had the same response of that's that's a good joke.  This is this is a real project. This is really happen We're making this happen and they what's when they announced it to the team officially and when we got back to the office because this was at like a An off-site like all hands thing was when this is announced to us when we got back to The office like it was me and the rest of the community the NA community team. We were all sitting there Speechless kind of didn't know what to do the rest of the day because we were like We're actually gonna do this. Yeah. Yeah, this is real Do you know how long they had been working on it prior to telling you? From what I put together and I could be wrong. They've been working on it for about a year or so at that point There was like a That's like basically right after Noss shut down like a month or two later My understanding I could be totally wrong. This is actually just me Making a guess from what I've pieced together It sounded like they had been working on it for about a year before At least the team that was kind of putting this together to see if it was possible They've been working on it for about a year before we were even told that this was a real project and we were doing this Right sick honestly, so wow seven months prior to the announcement That would have been Right before I started streaming which would have been right around Elysium launch That's whenever you found out think it was a if it was about a year before that Noss had shut down Around that time. Yep. So yeah, that's right. And then they had they had nano and The Noss crew go to blizzard. So yeah a few months after that So prior to having the Nostarist team out, they were already working on classic. Well is what that means. Yeah, that's what that means I think I think so. I think it was like a it was like a little passion project. I'm not sure at all Yeah, like it just so happens to be that they were working on it on the side And then they came out and then like the whole thing kind of like panned out that way And I'm sorry, there's probably people from the classic team watching if I'm getting the dates wrong I'm really sorry I could be I could be I could be totally wrong. This is me kind of making guesses and putting things together at least It's still cool like I mean regardless of when it happened I mean even seven months before the announcement like I think a lot of us had thought that they'd been working or they started working on it Very like recently like very close to the announcement, but I want to ask you Kate And what was that the general like office reaction? They told you shock when it was like happening. Yeah, cuz we were like, oh, this is real This is actually this is actually real and then we immediately start talking about what does this mean for world of Warcraft? Not as just not as would mean for the live game. What does this mean for? Like world of Warcraft as a franchise like this is this is huge because when wow originally launched You didn't have things like YouTube twitch like you know this world of content creation didn't exist when wow originally Launched and so it was like we finally get to see What that looks like and what are those kind of like all the all of our brains in the room We're just like firing off of all these ideas of kind of like this is gonna be incredible like you know We've all these things existed partly kind of because of the content creation that spun out of the original Game of players from figure out. How do you even do this? Like right cinema exists because of games like World of Warcraft And so it's interesting to think of like art forms exists because of this game And the original like our least of the ways that we do it now had to have no and no realm existed back then Like like a video capture was a very difficult thing to do And now it's something that the Computers you buy it best buy on a budget can do it. Yeah One like not just that but like software-wise to like I remember I Remember if you had like a full copy of fraps. That was a very rare thing every video So I was WWE at fraps.com at the top.  Whatever they talk about like developers, right? They say it's developers and a lot of times they're talking about like programmers and stuff But as far as people who contribute to the development of the game It's not always the people who are only like Writing the code out like a big part of what you did is you took a lot of feedback and whatnot from us This is what we know But but will you go ahead and explain like what your involvement was with like the development of classic? Yeah, so most to be honest most of my involvement with like the classic project was me wanting to just be in the room and Just kind of talk to those guys so I'd find any excuse to go talk to them And I I hope they see this clip. I hope they see this clip and I'm Brian and everyone. I miss you guys I Looked for any excuse to walk over into their area and just chat with them And I think Brian once or twice kind of like kind of try to get me to like shimmy Ray's like it's great to see you I It's like hey, they're on the forums talking about loot trading again like yeah, we know we know Funny enough, I actually didn't know where they set for the longest time and I talked to them for a little bit Through like to you know just like through messages through like our chat programs and emails And then when I finally figured out where their area was I went over there as much as I could What about stuff like the dev water coolers? Did you help put those together or I guess another question in addition to that? What goes in to making those and distributing those so dev water coolers? They are Incredibly annoying from everything. I wasn't involved with the classic one But from what I've been told the the classic one It was a want by a couple of a couple of higher ups and so they actually had written Had written everything down and then it basically goes back and forth between a bunch of people So say the first person wrote it down Sends it to the classic team the classic team approves it then it goes to the next person the next little next like high up Reads it or would it make some edits? Changes based on like what they want you guys to know yet what they don't want you guys to know yet that kind of thing And then it just keeps going back and forth through constant iterations and that happens for like a month Sometimes oh, wow, and then eventually it works its way down finally into a blog post and then it comes down to us It it takes a while Damn, that's crazy. Do you think I? Guess before I ask you that like if you were to be able to write your own blog post, right? Your own dev water cooler update. What's the topic that you would want to see talked about the most? When it comes to classic talked about the most I'd want honestly just talking about some of the some of the Basically the rebuilding and reverse engineering of some of the stuff that they have to do because I think that's the most I think it's the most interesting thing from my perspective of hearing what all they're working on and how they're accomplishing these crazy things like You know the fact that you get something like elevators working again and say the Thunder Bluff How do you how do you how do you redo that? How do you get boats to work again? Because remember boats didn't work very well back in the day How do you how do you choose to either replicate that old behavior or try to make them more robust and actually function like those? those conversations are Really fascinating and I could sit in their area and listen to them talk about it constantly Yeah, so talk about little things like that of how do you get these things to? Function like they did back in the day. Oh, how do we exactly do you we engineer this? It's funny that you mentioned boats. I remember there specifically being a I'm noticing a video about it years ago There is stuff you could do like how how the boats were scripted how they were coded was you could change something client side to Actually change where the boat takes you Back in the day and like people would use that and they would they would like download another like mpq file or something And they would actually go to GM Island on like the boat to Darnassus or something I don't know what boat it was specifically, but they would do like crazy stuff like that and then they get banned But I mean I remember like boats specifically like now they mentioned it there was some funny functionality with that Yeah, let's make sure that behavior is replicated for class So we you know kind of talking about the same thing here or like on the same track You were as far as the community goes a You were like our go-to guy, right? You were like the go-to CM were there any Was that like something that you wanted to was that a position that you wanted to be in maybe as like the classic community manager or Was there anything that was like you thought might be on the table there or what was your kind of plans there? I mean it kind of it was something like gonna happen naturally where it seemed like I was probably gonna be the one that handled it Just because I was the I was like I was saying earlier I was the most enthusiastic about it And it kind of just happened it just kind of seemed like it was going to be that thing where I was gonna be in charge of it right Okay Do you know me at once it started happening? I was like all right sweet. I guess this is I guess this is me now I guess I'm doing this Yeah, yeah, do you think that classical is going to need a dedicated CM or like are they gonna have their own set of GM's that deal With you know classic well problems. What do you think they're gonna do as far as like customer support and customer service stuff? They won't I don't think they'll need a specific classic see them Just judging off of the stuff that I was doing with you guys and just kind of mainly though the Majority of what I was doing was just making sure that you guys knew that we were we were still alive and we were kind of acknowledging you But like I'll say once classic it's here Like there's honestly isn't really a need for a classic see I'm just kind of the regular ones can can do both It's it's pretty easy to do to handle both of them at the same time Right, but for sorry what was the other part of your question for GM for any sort of like customer service stuff? Yeah, so from my understanding that isn't figured out yet specifically to have something concrete down But I imagine like it'll it'll probably be handled like regular game masters will It's game masters actually don't work on specific titles. They work on all the games at the same time Oh, yeah, so there's no like specific role game masters that are like Oh, I only work on this game like they actually work on everything So it'll be another it'll be another like tool in their belt You know, they'll have to learn some little things in here and there most of the game masters actually played vanilla So at least the ones that I was the ones that I know of like they actually played vanilla So it'll be pretty and pretty easy pickup for them right So you're talking about like basically you Making sure that we know that you're still alive, right? That was a big thing because a lot of times like we There's times where and I think we we've talked about this before We feel like we're in the dark, right? Like it's like, oh, you don't know like, okay What's going on with classic especially there was a long period of time After the announcement up until the first water cooler update and then there was another water cooler update right before blizzcon Seven and a half months then like three months. Yeah, it was something like that Is there what is all what all is the process of going into a water cooler update? Is it something because I know for me and I don't know stay safe tips. You guys might be in the same boat like it's just like, okay Well, it's like writing a blog post, right? Like can't they just do this? Can you can you go into the process of actually putting out like a like a true like a good water cooler update and Kind of being in depth about it too as opposed to just like a forum post or something like that Like hey, we're so alive So like for say something like a water cooler thing Form post is actually super easy. It's just I needed to find something I could talk about at least for at that in that point in time Which is sometimes the hard part is finding something you can actually talk about Right, it's it's decisions. We haven't even answered yet. Look, we don't know what we don't know what we want to do about this yet But say for example, like a water cooler, it can come from either the dev team wanting to do one They'll have like an idea which the you know the classic team has like a ton of ideas that they want to do It's just it's we got to figure out the timing for it and the strategy behind communication that kind of thing Like we're so far out still that it's kind of It's kind of a little weird Of how do you how do you know this while you're doing all of the the existing Communication based on like say retail that you have to figure out. How do you do all these things at the same time? And the team I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. No, go ahead. Well, I'm just saying is the team kind of because obviously there is retail and and like You know, we've often speculated that the team kind of You know, you don't want to cannibalize the hype of a certain product over another product Were you guys scheduling like posts out based on like What was going to be scheduled for retail? For example, you know retail is going to have some kind of communication this month Then maybe we'll schedule something next month or next week for a classic something like that Is does that kind of does it work that way? That typically would happen But it wasn't really happening so much with with classic because there just wasn't it wasn't enough that we were ready to talk about just yet Because keep in mind a lot of a lot of the work that is being done on classic is a lot of like Super and it's like super back in stuff of trying to recreate a lot of the old functionality of things Uh, so it's not there's not a lot of like It's not a lot of like really really cool kind of content At least for the average player to get kind of invested but the hardcore player is going to love it Uh, it's kind of it's kind of figuring out when's the right timing to do those kinds of things Right, which sometimes is not it's not as easy of a answer as you sometimes think it would be But that's kind of where we were at with a lot of them But we'll say like a dev water cooler for example the um the the spell tech one that I believe that was actually A want from the dev team and so the dev team actually put that together and then it worked its way down to community to the post Yeah, I got to say I think people are way more interested in that nitty gritty in the trenches back and stuff Then maybe maybe you guys realize I think people are thirsty for that I mean we we see we see the success of john statz book about developing vanilla Wow back in the day and how how how nitty gritty that was I think people love that stuff I would love I would love after classic while I was out to hear a comprehensive story of everything They had to go through to make it um a thing. I would love that It'd be a cool like little like youtube video or like a little series or something on yeah with a kind of Kind of the processes they went through because it was always interesting hearing Uh, how they were trying to accomplish some of the things like say for example, uh, how they were managing to get uh, say the old maps to work because Nowadays retail there's a map for all the dungeons, but classic doesn't have that You have to get right to get the zones to actually call the maps from the zones not the dungeon Uh, right and there was no sort of like Like map whatsoever for dungeons and like how do you how do you get the The current clients to behave that had behaved that way Yeah, that's so crazy like everything is so Like it seems like it's your manual process like yeah when they told us originally they were going to do the 735 client I kind of assumed just like common sense You would assume that everything would be kind of more automated and you know just Yeah flip a switch and you know set a couple settings and it'll port all the 112 Yeah, but when you saw with the demo, there was a lot of stuff in there that wasn't supposed to be in there I say like the looking for group tool that's not supposed to be in classic And it was like we I haven't we sorry we hadn't we hadn't got the time to pull that out yet It's not gonna be there. Yes, I remember how to heart attack. I was like, it's not gonna be there in the end It's not gonna be there at the end Yeah, well, so I because I saw videos I saw the videos and so whenever I was streaming at blizzcon The client that was on the floor at blizzcon was different than the client that was pushed out publicly And the client that was on the floor at blizzcon didn't have the slash lfg command So people were Like having like a heart attack like freaking out about it and I'm like what so I went I checked. I was like, no Like what are you guys talking about? Like I think that anyone reasonable probably assumed it was just a small oversight and an easy fix But people really would crazy And a lot of people don't realize this but like say the builds that say blizzcon They're They're using a different build than what you actually play at home So even though some of you some people at home were playing together on the classic servers The show build at the floor actually was a different build So people who were playing through different updates So at that point like the looking for group thing was already taken out of that build So like people didn't see it but say as fans saw the video and was like freaking the hell out It's not I promise you it's not gonna be there Yeah No, I definitely we we definitely talked a lot about at blizzcon about uh about a lot of stuff After the classic announcement those you guys who saw classicast after uh after blizzcon I know I came in I was pretty hot like just because I And I know it was a lot of stuff that's like, okay, this is tentative. This is something we're thinking about And we can get into that a little bit more Here in a little bit But uh, just kind of going to the same track, you know, you said that we're long ways out, right? We're long ways out from classic but I think at this point at this point time last year We had gotten a bfa alpha. I believe by february And bfa ended up coming out in august now it got pulled up because it was originally september Uh, and then I ended up being in the middle of august That's kind of when We foresee I think a lot of people foresee coming out like somewhere between like july and september um If it comes out at about the same time as bfa did um Do you think Do you think it would be I guess safe to to hope for A beta here in the next like month or so maybe a couple of months if that's something they would want to do So full disclaimer on my answer here because this is definitely something I don't know about Uh, is this something I only heard like very early conversations on and know I have no idea what they're actually going to do but it would be reasonable to Expect a beta just to kind of make sure that You know the game is actually functioning how it's supposed to and so things are being things are correct It's very reasonable to expect one. Uh, and I honestly am I don't know if one's gonna happen at all, but I would expect to probably see a beta But I I want to say they're probably gonna think about it Uh, probably of doing one for maybe like Two weeks three weeks somewhere in there because at least with something like classic Uh, people are gonna go in and zerg the hell out of it in no life And they're gonna play all the content already like you that's not you don't want that you don't want that to happen Yeah, I would assume they're either gonna branch it out into little chunks Like stress test almost. Yeah, like a stress test of certain level bands Um, or they're going to just have the whole thing open for maybe like a very limited amount of time Just to get a lot of reports to make sure that hay is all this function correctly Compare it to reference client whatever and work it work your way through that Uh, and make sure things are actually Working well. Um, I wouldn't expect a full like Expansion level beta test or like an expansion level alpha test I would expect more of like a limited time frame to be like Go into these areas go go go like specific kind of stress to make sure that the old escort quests are working correctly Some of the old scripting for quests is actually functioning like it should because some of that probably is going to break Let's be real here. It's it's it's being redone Yeah, maybe this is a dumb question Do they do they have anyone internally that they can you know, it's like a group of people say hey level one to 60 10 times and You know report any broken quests. So they have anyone do they do they do that internally? Do you know? Yeah, that happens stuff like that happens internally That's like normal qa work along with uh, they do these things called play tests where they want They try to get people associated with wow to kind of take some time to go through and play those These zones and to test some of it out and be like, oh, this is where we are so far Uh, the team who and it's usually comprised of people who definitely played it back then that can kind of weigh in on You know what what it what it kind of feels like Do they take I couldn't figure out how to volunteer for it. Otherwise I would have done it Yeah, no, I I think uh something that I've talked about before is I I would like to see a longer beta just because I think there's so much stuff to actually test what my concern is is that if Blizzard goes in and they look at classic. It's like, okay, we want to do this Finished boom send it out and just kind of leave it there now Obviously that's an ideal situation right to be able to do something finish it and send it out Not to worry about it, but I think Obviously private servers are different. I I totally understand that but I think just looking at what private servers have done Is they go and they release something and then they they release like a new fresh server you know after the lifespan of a life cycle of the server and There's always some differences right they say like, okay Well, we noticed that whenever we put we implemented this thing in the game a certain way This was actually bad for the health of server. So we're going to adjust this year Like we're going to put the pvp gear and instead of like the you know instead of like around next time 1.10 We pull it back earlier right right before next they put it in an earlier And then or 1.11 rather Actually, I'm confused. It was a 110 or 11. I'm blanking here, but regardless. It's a yeah, it was 111 wasn't it? Okay so they They they end up putting in an earlier like around aq patch for example like that Those are the kind of changes that they would make is those kind of like adjustments to kind of make it work better and like the flow of the game and now private server retail vanilla and Wow classic meta are all going to be completely different not completely but but I would say there's significant differences between all the metas and What my point is is that I think that if the beta was longer there would be more stuff to test And that they could do what would be an ideal situation for them if they put out the game and there's things that are like Oh, this is wrong or this is wrong if they Decide to release fresh servers, which is something that I think we should do or that I think should be done that we should get um Blizzard should be willing to constantly look at like okay. This needs to be changed for classic or whatnot Right like we need to we need to adjust this here and there like very much Like how private servers have done it like you know Let's say the four phases thing like, you know, I've talked everybody's heads off about four phases of content release Let's say they they come out with four and they're like, you know what that was a bad idea We need to make it six or let's say they come out with five or six and like, you know what that was a bad idea We need to make it eight, right I think that blizzard should be willing to look at that and make those Make those adjustments in like future fresh launches If that's something that they decide to do Yeah, and it's definitely something that's not like locked in stone of this is how they're going to to do it It's very much a this is the where their heads at and their ideas currently are kind of leaning towards of how to do this thing uh When it comes to like say like the four the four content like phase thing four waves of like content that they structured out and kind of laid out at blizzcon now it's not really a Uh a this is 100 going to happen. You know, it's it's it's development It could change like it could honestly be changed already. We just not know about it Um, yeah, I I don't even know whether currently out on that because like, I mean, I don't work there anymore. So Right, right. I don't know But yeah, it's I think I think the team is very receptive to that kind of feedback because uh, You you guys are incredibly detail oriented when it comes to say classic It's I would I would expect them to still be weighing and weighing options and seeing what's what they feel is the correct solution Uh with pretty much anything Anything at all And speaking of that just to kind of dovetail off of that. Um So we have the stage releases and then we also have, you know A couple of things that were brought up at blizzcon that were kind of concerning I would say is lute sharing and like sharding and right click to report Would you say those are still kind of being discussed internally or are those like definitely going to be in the game? I would look at those as solutions to problems that we know are going to happen Uh, and so it's kind of like those are those the solutions that have been figured out that at least worked for For retail. It's what it makes sense that they would kind of possibly consider them for classic Now there's it could not happen at all. Like let's be real here. This is uh, totally unknown It could we could get to classic and these things could just straight up not happen Uh, specifically with lute trading and like, you know, say like right click reporting Those things could be taken out and they could be not not existent But they're on the table for like solutions to problems. Um, I think you guys asked brian And uh in the interview as well whenever we had the group a classic panel And so he very much talks about these are kind of things that they're at least They're at least weighing they're they're on the table But they kind of they know that they don't want to do those particularly and they know the community is not going to like them But it's going to be like problems that have to be solved That kind of thing it's the same way with uh with sharding in general with say like the launch that we've talked about a lot It's it's a it's a problem that's going to happen and it's like how do you deal with this problem? Do you just let it become a monster or do you try to figure out how to how do we address this kind of thing? Right a big beautiful monster dude. Just just let him hang dude Just just to clarify real quick. I think uh I think some people might have been confused by the way you phrased it when he said Uh things that are going to happen. You were talking about the problems, right? Like you know that there's there's going to be a potential population issue You know that there's going to be uh like if they if the gm team Like classic is not going to be the same way as it is in in or sorry like in retail vanilla. Wow It's the same as it's going to be in wild classic like a potential solution is loot trading that was on the table So you know that like this could be a problem and those are the potential solutions that are um That have been kind of like brought forth so far. So and that was that was a lot of um That was a lot of what we talked about actually at um At blizzcon. So after blizzcon the day after blizzcon we went and we got breakfast together and I know I basically just like laid out everything that I was like Okay, like I don't like this because of this. I don't like, you know the force the four phases because of this I don't like sharding because of this loot trading You know, I we had like I spent came to that breakfast with an agenda.  I had a book written island It's like But no, I came in and I said like look, this is this is how people feel about this is how I personally feel about this um And you know, we talked about everything, you know, I talked I said like there needs to be probably at least six phases Uh at least six phases of content release and uh, I gave you I actually had written out Uh, what I thought and I talked about it in my blizzcon video that I did after I got back And I said like this is this is what I think should happen This is what I know had been done on my private servers and I think this is like a happy medium I think, you know, obviously if you could have 11 patches, that's probably best case scenario, but I know on private servers, they don't even start with 1.1 like they usually start with 1.2. They package 1 1 and 1 2 together, you know And they'll they might package some of the stuff later on together like 1 1 11 and 1 12 are together and so on so Um, it's not something that's totally, you know completely foreign, but um I don't know. I think it's I think it's interesting because they I know you were willing to sit down with me and basically get that feedback the whole entire time Um, and I I talked your head off for I think dude, I legitimately think we were probably like talking for like four hours We went and got breakfast and uh Aspen was there review was there. It was yeah, it was pretty good We talked about the chat before we went and met up with was that and yeah before and then that yeah Yeah, it was it was about like four or five hours, but I think maybe you're probably at breakfast for a good A good maybe three Yeah, like there are there are a lot of different problems that could arise with new trading or sharding And I I think like this is one of the values of having a longer beta Which is something I prefer they can test these variables Like let's say they have one beta phase where a server cap is like 4 000 and they see if they don't need sharding or and then they another beta phase where they try server cap 8 000 and they try it with sharding, you know what I mean? They can test these things and run through them and see how they actually play out That's that's kind of what I would like to see or they they they try loot trading They try it in a beta phase and they see how do players behave with this or players abusing this does it cause problems? Does it you know what I mean? I I really think they should actually try this stuff out and see what happens I I wouldn't put it past like them probably wanting to do that kinds of that kind of thing Or those kinds of things sorry Where they want they probably want to know what the behavior is of these players in these scenarios Because a lot of these are are unknowns. We we don't know how Classic would behave if you opened up a server with you know, four or five times the cap that it was originally that Like modern retail could possibly support now. At least the modern infrastructure could support now. We we don't know Um, I'm pretty sure they would love the opportunity to literally play with all of you psychologically and see how you behave Uh, just to see what would be perfect. Like I guarantee you they would probably love to do something like that Just just to see just to see what would happen No, absolutely. Like I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but we're down dude. We're definitely down for that Speaking of like testing and and stuff like um Obviously, you know, whatever happens with the beta happens Uh, do you think that? I guess I just like to hear your opinion. Do you think that a longer or a shorter beta a shorter beta would be Would it be better for the game? We're talking about better for the game. I think a shorter one But it's very focused if you're confident enough to know the rest of the work Uh, specifically ones that are going to be Troubles troublesome areas that you know have a lot of weird scripting or weird like escort quests Or they function weird with with higher populations Either those specific areas, uh, you would focus Like a lot on to try and be like, all right, say if we give everyone templated characters to start off at this level Let's just have them go into the zone see what happens or say, you know, they run They try to do a stress test of, you know, let's let everyone go just in like one area and see what happens Uh, just to kind of just to kind of play with it. That's what I would like to see I prefer shorter tests, but with more deliberate reasons behind the test that are a little bit more transparent Rather than a longer one because then if you're doing the longer one It burns out your hype because your your hype is already so high. You're like, oh, I'm in this It's real But if you're if you're only having shorter tests, you're not you're not getting us fulfilled by playing the game Essentially already it's kind of the ongoing battle you have with beta testing something versus waiting for a launch figuring it out Uh, where do you what do you how do you balance that hype level? And that's going to be something they're probably even talking about right now leading all the way up until what they decide to do Of how do you balance that? Yeah? I totally agree. So let me ask you this if you if you had to guess What do you think is the next big piece of classic news that we get? Do you think it's another water cooler dev talk? Do you think it's an do you think it's a release date announcement? Do you think it's a beta or alpha announcement? What do you what do you think is on the horizon? And I guess I'm timeline also Uh, so timeline I honestly don't know but I would say probably Maybe in like a month ish. We'll probably start seeing more and this is me guessing at this point I don't know what strategy is. Uh, I don't I I have no idea. I am only working off of Uh, my guesses and my like expertise and kind of suggestions if I wanted to see something happen um I would I would love to see more information probably in the next like month or so And I would expect more piecemeal style answers rather than Uh, a huge like water cooler blog. Let's be real peace like piecemeal. We're getting more more bits a little bit quicker I would I I would prefer that at least because we're getting more of a glimpse into The progress rather than philosophy because we know philosophy. We know how diehard and gung ho they are with a lot of the stuff I'd love to hear more of Philosophy and action that kind of thing. Uh, you know say how are you approaching? Um, and this is a really good kind of philosophical question that uh, that we had on at least on the community team is Um, what is what is say, um the mount system for you in in vanilla when you think of the mount system What do you think of right? Do you think of the 112 version or do you think of the one? Is it one eight or one ten? When it used to have writing for each city and so you had to get exalted to earn the writing for the cities. It's like what's You understand I'm I'm pretty sure that's how it was for 90 percent of vanilla. Wow like 90 percent of vanilla. Wow the mount system worked in a way that we don't think of as being the mount system It changed to what we think of it as being in in 1.12 for 1.11 Um, and then up until 1.4. They had the unarmored epic mount. So we're gonna have unarmored epic mounts I think that'd be badass for the first four or five months. That'd be really cool. Yeah, yeah Like so if you if you get your epic mount before Uh, let's say 1.3. I think it was whenever they put in the armored the armored epic mounts Uh, yeah, I don't I think it's cool. I think it's just like a cool like little thing that you have so that You can flex on people with like yeah, I got my epic mount early, you know Yeah, I think I think it'd be cool to start hearing bits of information like that with With say systems that you have a vanilla perception of in your mind of what that system is But say it changed at some point in vanilla and it's like which one is the correct one And I think those are kind of interesting because we all In our mind when you look back and think of vanilla, you you probably spent the most time and say 1.10 to the end and so Say the mount system for example when it changed You You may remember that system, but the majority of vanilla you actually spent using another system It's like which one is which one is the right one? Those kinds of I would love to hear more of those kinds of things Uh, that goes even with talents. Are you going to go straight with 112 talents? Or are you going to take like little pieces of them from previous patches? Like how is that going to work exactly? Like I would love more of those little things of being like this is what we're doing and this is why and getting kind of The understanding of this is why the direction that it's going that kind of thing Right. I think uh, I know for me personally Great example as well like what patch do you go with tier sets that changed so quickly? Right like as far as like how the itemization changes and whatnot. Yeah, I think uh I think as far as the mount system goes So for those of you guys who don't know Original mount system was you paid very little for the training And then you would pay a lot for the mount like it was it was a little bit more role play oriented And that's something that you kind of sees right of course a while just to add one more piece onto that There was mechanistrider training. There was ram trading. There was training. There was raptor training There wasn't just journeymen training or whatever, right? There were unique Sorry, go ahead. No, that was good. That was really good. Um, so yeah, it was it was a lot more like role play Like I mean it was I mean you even look back on Uh in the alpha whenever torrents didn't have mounts and they eventually give them kudos They said oh well the torrents they have planes running or whatever Plains I forgot. I forgot what it was exactly. I think it was planes running Um, but it was a lot more role play oriented and slowly throughout the course of vanilla and really throughout the course of the entirety of wow It's kind of deviated away from more of the the role play aspect of it So it was okay early on you get training for a specific type of mount Like you said mechanistrider or whatever and it's very cheap But then you pay a lot for you know a nice epic horse or like a very like advanced mechanistrider like That that makes more sense from a role play perspective right to pay a lot for something like that And the training is not that big of a deal But then it flipped because they're like, okay This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense because what happens is people want to they get their training and then they want to have multiple mounts So I don't know that's that's that's why I think that they changed it at least it makes more sense that way from like a gameplay perspective But kind of deviating from that role play aspect Yeah, it was really cool. It was really cool. And I I hope that that's how they have it Because it you know those those small accomplishments that you have to work towards and you only can Like if you see a gnome on a night saber, that's like, whoa Whoa, yeah, so it's just cool. It's just like another little flavor thing It's another level of character progression to earn say and you needed the reputation for that city to be exalted to even learn The the riding of a city that you weren't from So you had to actually kind of bust your ass to go get say You know night saber riding on a gnome like that was that was difficult in 60 time Yeah When when they were coming up these kind of philosophical questions and answers Do you know if they were referencing, you know, possibly private server precedents like privacers that already done this before The stall race, for example, did the team kind of look at that and say, okay This is how these guys did it. They had some success. Maybe this is a good starting point to talk about or was it kind of done from scratch Uh, so I I wasn't really a part of any of those conversations, but I would assume that they looked at some of that information I mean, it's It makes sense that they would I honestly, I just don't know but I'm assuming that they definitely did because Why would you why would you pass up on a lot of data that? Players already figured out that kind of thing. Uh, why would why would you pass on all this information? That's already there I mean the nostalgia skies they delivered like You know all of their data and information to to blizzard to kind of show Like this is this is why this is viable. This is all the stuff that we saw It's it's crazy to assume that none of that was referenced or used Absolutely Yeah, so I guess this is like maybe a weird question. Um, within like the what because there's there's like the big WoW development team, right? How how does the main WoW development team sort of perceive classic WoW? Is everyone excited for it or if they're not directly working on it? Are they sort of ambivalent or what's like the general vibe with people that aren't actually putting their hands on it? They're pretty excited about the project again all honestly. They're they're pretty they're pretty excited about it because it's it's kind of it's another Level of like kind of professional nerddom where you're seeing you're seeing these guys Accomplish something that everyone thought you couldn't really do or couldn't really figure out a way to do based on what we had And they're working out and so they're working it out And it's kind of it's kind of adorable to see all these all these guys who are Just kind of giddy at seeing how they're accomplishing all of these these problems Because that's all development really a lot of development really is is How do you come up with a solution to this problem with something that you're trying to do? And so it's interesting seeing where everyone's the headset and they're trying to solve these problems So they are fascinated with the project and then most of the people who also want to play it They they're very excited about seeing the progress and hearing about it too Like there was a there was a meeting at one point where someone had asked someone in leadership asked How uh who here is excited to play classic and keep in mind this is like a wow meeting everyone raised their raised their hands Like everyone raised their hands because everyone wants to try this out and play this like yeah It's it's very much. It's very much a hype thing internally where at least anyone who's associated to wow is very It's pretty excited about it. There's some people of course that you know, they don't they're not too You're not too keen on it. They just like the retail game and they're like I did that already and that's understandable But the people who are excited about it are very passionate about it Has there been conversation from anybody on the team even in passing just like joking around About potentially continuing beyond classic into burning crusade and possibly even rap I have heard no conversation of that like business wise uh, but it's it's like a conversation of Uh, wouldn't this be really cool to kind of see and I I 100 on board I would play I'm I'd be more excited to play tbc if I knew tbc was gonna be a thing Uh, then I would be for classic and I'll honestly just because I'll honestly just because I Tbc was the expansion where I fell in love with the game and really kind of came into my own But I was still right. I would love to play through that again because I never got to experience Really hitting cap and vanilla and experiencing the content and then going from vanilla to bc Yeah, well sounds about right for you know blood elf rep paladin to to like bring crusade so much Yeah If burning crusade comes out, I might end up playing a blood elf and burning crusade because I dude I I was the highest ranked alliance rep paladin in our battle group in arenas in 5v5 And it was like me and then there was two blood elves ahead of me Is at least like at you know at the time that I was playing and then you know, I stopped But two and then it was just the entire page on the ladder was blood elves And there was like some some dwarves sprinkled in dwarves and humans sprinkled into the bottom But yeah, there was uh, yeah, I'm still a little salty. It's only been 10 years still getting over it. Okay But uh, no go ahead say say about your your ton of question I was gonna say yeah, you play a blood elf rep paladin. So in vanilla classic What are you gonna do? Where are you gonna be? Uh, I think so far. Uh, it sounds like I'm gonna be a human paladin Very good. It sounds like a human paladin.  So Nice. Nice. I don't I don't get paladins on horde, but hey, I'll I'll play as a rogue at least That's what I played in back in vanilla. Anyway, so why not It's funny that you say that because I always say that if I didn't play a paladin I would play a rogue now because I've been playing retail while so much that I've gotten used to combo points So I was like, yeah, I could probably play a rogue just fine now But uh, yeah, it's funny. It's funny that works managing inquisition is like the same thing as managing say slice and dice right So I think uh, yeah, I mean that that that'd be great So we're we're planning on playing on a pvp server. We want to play on our server together where Stay safe and I are going to go alliance tips is going to go horde With crom and and some other friends and we will each have our own guild So s-fan will have a guild tips out will have a guild on the horde s-fan's alliance Right and then I'll have my own guild on alliance as well. It's going to be a lot of fun And you guys have actually already started your guild applications Right, both of you guys. Yeah. Yeah, both of you guys have started your level because I have not started yet I'm uh, I'm going to get going on that stuff sometime soon. My general thought was I don't really want to get into it too much until there's another testing period out But it's been I was expecting it a lot sooner. I was expecting it this month, uh at the latest initially Uh after blizzcon, I thought it would be no later than February, but here we are So I might I might get going on that stuff too and uh, I know a lot of people especially for my old guild have been messaging me Especially with like the uh, like joining method and stuff like my my method jacket on today. Don't I? Um, you got the jacket. We don't got the chair. Yeah, I yeah. Hey Let's go where you at, dude Exactly so, um, no, yeah, I uh, especially with joining method a lot of people are like So are you still kind of doing the same thing? And my current plan is is still to kind of like have my my same guild Instead of running like a method classic or something because I'm the first like method classic. I guess signee Um as vanadu plan. I'm playing holy by the way. I'll pocket heal you very good. I like that I like to show that that's all paladins should be holy except for me. I can be red. I'm a special snowflake No, no, I uh Just help me get my my my cleanse leave uh, liberum and my flash of light liberum. I'm good I'm good. Yeah, then you're good. Then you're good No, it's gonna be good dude. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Um So, you know as far as that goes like, you know, we we know you're gonna play alliance now Good choice. You're gonna put paladin another good choice. You're gonna play with us. Good choice.  Like a certain thing. Is there a certain raid or Anything specific that you didn't get to do in vanilla that you really want to go through and you want to accomplish If so, what is that doing the actual black rock dungeons Oh, yeah, I never got to experience doing black rock dungeons These are the best ones I really want to do those and the same with uh molten core as well Uh, I never I never saw molten core until uh, we were already in burning crusade. So my first time seeing ragnaros I could just one shot him. So I was like, this is What's the big deal about this thing? I never Never had to experience something like something like raggi Uh, or say the like the blooming bombs I I want to I want to do all of that stuff because I I I should never sell it I think I hit like It was somewhere between 40 to 50 was like the level that I actually hit in vanilla before bc run So I never got right. I just never got to see any of that content Yeah, and there's a lot of people like that and I think that uh, actually it's funny You're the example Uh, pretty close to the example that I give a lot of people who are really excited about classic People who maybe started to play back then or started playing after classic came out And you want to go back and either experience it or just go finish Right like a lot of people didn't get to finish. I mean you might talk to some guys who um Like a lot of the method guys have been playing like, you know, since vanilla Some of them have like sco for example Like people have seen the video sco and his mom sco and his minor menothil where he's playing two-handed fury and just like Smashing people A lot of the guys who've been playing wow for a long time like they might have gone through and they might have Completed all the content and they might be supportive of vanilla or they might be you know Oh, this is cool But as far as them personally like being excited to play it's like Well, I don't know if that's something that I want to do right because hey, I like I've already done this um Yeah, for me for example, like it's it's like what you're talking about with say finishing an expansion So like I've I've finished every expansion Uh, every single one, uh, except for Vanilla, I never got to go through the raid tiers of vanilla. That's the only one I never got to do Uh, I you know, I did I did Sunwell. I did are this like I've done all of these I just never got to actually go into og nex ramus Molten core or even black wing layer. I just never got to do any of these Yeah, and I think I think that's going to be an awesome experience Like I know A lot of people say like, okay, it's not going to be the exact same and that's true Like it's not going to be the exact same as it initially was But that doesn't mean that it's not going to be a really cool and really special experience Even for somebody who's already experienced it once before I think I think classical launch is going to be I mean, it's going to be an experience for so many people that I do it's going to be magical I'm not trying to romanticize it, but it's going to be right else Classic WoW content is great. It'll probably differ a little bit from what it was in vanilla WoW But I think Jethysons said this we were talking before we went live. You said The the gameplay of classic WoW is like the the community or something like that Something to that effect right and It's so true like I was sitting here bored last night and I was like I was just thinking to myself I want to go on adventure with my friends and like there's there's no game right now that gives me that Adventure like it doesn't scratch that itch And so even if there are even if it is a little bit different here and there it's going to be an adventure again And um, that's that's the greatest thing about classic WoW if you ask me Absolutely and like I don't know Jethysons if you've ever played like a fresh server launch But it's it's insane like it's it's an experience you can't replicate in any other game and uh I was actually curious as to your predictions. How big do you think the launch is going to be? I mean Has it you know crossed your mind like a figure like hundreds of thousands millions possibly How how big do you think that launch is going to be? See this is this is interesting because it's this is where we get into the total speculation of Kind of what you think it might fall into Yeah I would expect I would expect to see Definitely over like a million viewers on twitch Uh, just given given the caliber of people who want to play Uh classic and who I've talked to personally about classic like I would expect I would expect you to see over a million a million viewers on say twitch on launch day. Yep. Um Now player wise player wise is interesting Of course, we know there's going to be a drop-off like people are going to rush in they're going to try it out There's going to be a lot of people who never got to experience it, but just want to check it out And they might find out it's not for them. Um And I could see them, you know churning out pretty hard Um, I would probably expect maybe and this is me just guessing total guessing Um, I would guess that you would see maybe about 20 20 percent ish after like like the first month or two They're still playing it based off of who played it on the launch day And then it would just kind of fall from there. Uh, just because classic is a very niche thing once you get farther along I would still probably say on launch day, you're going to see Million plus concurrence most likely given just the enthusiasm around the project I would expect I would expect numbers in that range and I'm Curious if I can get anyone to anyone it was to tell me what it is after this happens Uh, to see if I can like confirm my theories of how I believe that the community is going to behave when it comes to Like no, we know like the diehards are going to be success like, uh, are going to make it successful But it's uh, kind of what is that? What does that success actually look like? Right now 80 isn't something like most people hear that I'm like, oh like that's that's oh, that's a lot And yeah, it is but I think that pretty much follows in line with what, uh several people I know nixium nixium has said like what he thinks he thinks this will be a big spike I actually completely agree with nixium big spike And then it's going to dip off pretty hard because anytime anything is as hyped As classic as hyped and it is just anything right anything that has that much hype behind it It's kind of a huge spike at the beginning and then it's going to have a pretty steep drop off Because people are going to find out whether it's it's for them or not But I think that it's going to hit that point and then kind of level out and then maybe even start growing and maybe in the same way that we saw Old school runescape pan out. So I mean that's that's what I would hope for and that's what I could totally see happening because people might get People might go try retail go back to retail and say, you know what maybe I like classic more and then go back to classic I could I could personally I could totally see that happening, you know, because it's just like two different games for Uh, you know two different people like you got these people like this kind of game These people like this kind of game and there's some people in the middle that like both and and I think that's fine You know if people go in and they try and find out which one they like more and then they can roll with it I expect like diehard players to alternate when they're playing retail versus classic based on The content waves that are probably planned for classic So we'll probably see like When a patch for wow happens people are going to rush in play that do the new raid to the new content when the new content for Classic comes in You'll see people kind of The I guess the super diehard players will kind of swap to the other do that one That's that's honestly the behavior. I probably am going to exhibit when it comes to classic Just because I still love doing the new raids doing the retail stuff And but I still want to play all the classic content.  I think they'll probably do this Do you think that they'll stagger classic and retail wow content releases? Oh, absolutely. They absolutely would do that I think I think that that's something that's probably not a good idea for classic I think because I think if you go and you purposely like purposefully try and Okay, if we have this come out in january and for retail and then this comes out in march for Classic and then you just kind of go and you stagger them like let's say you have a patch every six months And then you put those six months and you stagger them to be every three months There's some sort of wow content coming out like I think that looks really good on paper But the problem is is that You're going off the assumption that the people who are playing classic Are going to want to play retail and the people that are playing retail are going to want to play classic and sure some people are But You shouldn't use the other version of the game as supplementary content for the version of the game that people want to play Is the way that I see it specifically with I mean, I I think I think there will be crossover There will be some maybe not a lot, but there definitely will be crossover And I mean, let's say you have five months between classic like content release phases Why not just squeeze in, you know, it's like Like classic wow retail out classical retail out content. That just makes sense to me It makes sense it makes sense from a business standpoint Yeah, it's not necessarily going to be a purposeful decision But it's something that's it's going to happen anyway Just say with say with a pacing of say classic content You can't you're going to have to do them probably like five months apart Uh somewhere is somewhere in that range of a typical patch cycle, right that you would expect for retail Right, and if that's naturally going to happen and why wouldn't you not just play into it Where it's going to fall that way anyway rather than line things. Yeah, exactly because then you're going to have You're going to have a lot of players Who are going to have a sub par experience because now they have to choose between one or the other Versus you could make a potentially everyone happy anyway, just by the way that it's naturally going to go Right, that's true. I I agree with that I guess what my point was uh more than anything is like going retail classic retail classic retail classic as opposed to because If you go with a more Fleshed out approach to the patch release in classic you are going to have a time where you go like retail classic classic retail classic retail classic You see what i'm saying? Yeah, it'll uh, it won't necessarily be alternating Um perfectly every single time because in actual retail vanilla. Wow You have I think like the dire mall patch came out uh I think it was Three and a half months after launch it was close to four months after launch So it's like and then even with between that you had the mard on patch come out like almost right after launch Just Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.  Uh, I saw people kind of like like kind of freaking out a little bit I was like that five month thing. I'm just Talking about it from the structure. See everyone's relieved. Everyone's Okay, go ahead. Sorry. Well now I forgot what I was gonna say Well here here stay safe you start talking and I'll talk at the same time as you and maybe I'll just kick it back in the game Oh, you know what? I remember what I was gonna say. There it is. Um, I just remembered. Yep Like so with retail. Wow, they're typically like four content phases in retail. Well like a retail expansion, right? Um, that that might have influenced why they wanted to do A four phase classic. Well, so I could line it up just alternate them, right? Um, and if they like they might have realized this is just not going to work for classic Well, we need to have six or seven content phases. Um, so it might not be as neat as retail classic retail classic It might be something like esfan said where it's retail Classic retail classic class, you know what I mean? Um So yeah, but that that might have been the original logic behind having four content phases to match it up Really nicely with retail well Who knows? Yeah, I think it's definitely possible um What do you think githisons is is kind of Like this actually is more specific to the earnings call But like talking about releases and stuff like that One thing that I noticed during the earnings call was there was a line that was said that that went something along the line of They're not blizzard active vision blizzard isn't planning any frontline releases in 2019 Um and off of that statement There's been some speculation that classic could be delayed which led to Things name is borneck borneck, right or borneck borneck. Yeah. Yeah Borneck going on the forums and kind of saying no, uh, it is going to be releasing in 2019. Um Do people at active vision blizzard look at this as kind of a smaller project? I mean, why wasn't it called a frontline release? Is it like a technical term in the industry like? Do you I know a lot of people were pretty like wait what like I don't know if it was like a stockholder speak or whatever. I don't know Uh, I don't know if you can speak to that. Yeah, I can I can kind of touch on it a little bit Uh, because this is just me assuming Where their mentality kind of lies viewing the product It's very much that kind of a an investor kind of speak When they're talking about front run frontline releases frontline releases is more of a way of describing a title that we're gonna Like sell in a say a retail environment Um, so I thought like with something like classic. It's probably we're probably not going to see it ever touch retail because it honestly doesn't need to It's literally it's just going to be something like completely digital that you're getting with your regular wow sub There's nothing there's nothing to really sell there for investors to honestly care about And which it means a good thing for people who are The classic community as well It means that the project is still being viewed as something that is going to be an accessory to wow Rather than its own thing To say be dictated by its own say revenue for example Do you think that there's a that it's kind of sorry? Yeah, sorry.  Um I was just saying when We've talked about this amongst ourselves Do do you think that there's a chance that they might put out like a collector's edition or anything? With like its own I don't know non-combat pads something similar to the original collector's edition, but maybe not quite the same Uh, is that something that could potentially happen as like a retail thing? Or would that be like a digital purse just more than likely if they did that? I guess some thing I guess I could see it probably being more of a Digital thing if they were to do something along those lines if I were to guess Uh It could it could honestly I mean, I think personally, I think it's a cool idea There's a forum post a while back where I talked about this Because someone asked since they had purchased an original vanilla CE Would they be able to get their pets and I kind of explained more of along the the philosophy of linking the two of being No, they should be totally separate You should not like you still have those things that you bought before these should be a totally totally separate thing I would I can't really say whether one way is going to happen or the other because to be honest We haven't gotten there yet It could happen where the classic team wants to do some awesome flavor thing and give those out We don't know It could be a scenario where if you had an original one you you have those But then there's also a way to say get it just for classic Don't know, uh, right. I think it would be cool to see because one it generates It would be it would generate revenue for the project Which is good if you're a classic fan you want that because that means the project is making money And it's justifying the business to the justification for making it You want that you want that to happen and something like saying like a see it saying like selling a CE that makes sense Because it's something simple. It's not impacting the game. It's just making money for The thing that you love and you're trying to support which is good. You want that to happen I I would hope I would kind of it would be cool to get that I would go I would buy it I'm not going to get it free anymore, but I would buy that if that exists Yeah, I would probably I'd probably buy that I absolutely would yeah Even if it was physical if it was digital I don't care I would buy it because it's it's going to be something related to classic specifically supporting it I would do that. Yeah Yeah, I've never been big on like, uh, I'm not too big on like cosmetics I'm not like a big mount former and stuff like that like I say that but I have a bunch of kale skins on like legends, but it's different Like the kda say skins immediately So like I um Yeah, I mean I'm not huge on like, you know getting cosmetics and stuff in the storm And I know some people are interested in that But I think I would get it just to like flex on people Like I know that's one of those things like if I had that now if I had the collector's edition for vanilla now Like it's just it's just drop it on the table dude. Like, you know, it's one of those things I mean, okay, if you meet someone today that's like I played the vanilla wow Beta back in 2004 you're like, whoa In the future it's going to be demo. I played the blizzcon demo. Can you imagine that?  Yeah, I feel feel better about myself.  Um But Every single time that I quit I would come back and I would form baron I would form strat strat on dead over and over and over again and I would never see it drop one day on stream I was like, look This is just one of the things that I need to do I need to get this done and I like I finally got the mount and it was cool Now I think this drop rate has gone up like a hundred times since vanilla wow But still it was cool that I finally got it. Uh, and hopefully I can get that in classic because that would be cool Dude, I got the baron mount on accident. Um A friend of mine during wrath wanted me to help him like go through strad and go for the mountain I didn't care at all about mounts and I still don't care about mounts today. Yeah, but uh He like disconnects like five minutes before baron And I just like sit there and I wait for him And uh, he like had this habit of disconnecting all the time because like he wasn't supposed to be playing late at Nine his parents come to his room and stuff like that So, uh, so I wait for like 10 minutes and I'm just like, uh, he's not coming whatever. I'll just finish this off and go Frickin drops. I pick it up literally 60 seconds or less later. He logs in. Sorry about that, dude Let's let's go kill baron. I'm just like did Ride in the mountain. Why didn't you wait for him? I waited? I waited like 10 minutes.   He's on your group, right? I can't remember this was this was like early wrath. So I can't remember I wonder if loot trading was a thing man. It might have been late All right, go do it another reason don't don't put loot trading in there you go. No, I think uh, no I think I don't know if it even would have worked if he was disconnected, but still it's just funny to think about um Yeah, so do you think Yeah, we talked about um We talked about bornak a little bit He mentioned in a post recently that the game still you know sets release in 2019. Don't worry. There's no delays uh, do you think that You know if do you think there's any chance that Anything gets delayed like if blizzard comes out and they say like, okay, we're aiming for this release date They're gonna get it by then after they announce it. I don't know I I don't know in recent. I just don't know like have they announced anything before and delayed it I know they've pulled it up. They pulled bfa up by about a month We I think I'm pretty sure we've delayed stuff before Well, but it's it's usually when we don't tell you guys what the actual date is and say it slips And it's something that's just not communicated Uh, because we're it's just not ready yet. Um, right I don't see that happening with classic. I I didn't hear of anything that indicated that it would be delayed whatsoever Uh, but if it did, uh, I would I would trust that that call is coming from the classic team actually asking for it to be pushed back because they're just not ready yet If that were to happen And I would welcome that because that's a sign that the classic team is like saying no, no, it's just it's not ready it's just not yet and It happens if that happens, uh, if that does I won't be mad. I'd be cool with it I don't think it will though. Uh, it doesn't I didn't hear of anything indicating that it would So I hope it takes as long as possible Yeah, if if they need if they need longer, please take it because this is this is a special thing Like yeah, that's I think I think we would all agree that hopefully it takes as long as possible I mean clearly if if it comes out sooner like, you know as far as youtube and twitch and all that me where he goes Like it's better for our channels and whatnot because that's like what you know That's what we really want to do and all that but I would rather have the game be good Then just get to do it now, you know, like just be patient, you know as fan the patient That's my title and also today, you know, just first impressions are very very important, right? So if they release in, you know, june and it's just not ready It would have been better for it to release in september and have it be flawless, right? So that's what I prefer Especially in a situation as delicate as classics where you do have You know as much as we don't want to talk about it. There is this kind of competitor out there, you know The private servers and stuff like that If classic doesn't really stick at the start it gives People that provide that service a lot more I guess cloud and leeway to kind of provide the service for their audience and stuff So yeah, definitely even if it has to get delayed the better the product is at launch I mean, I think the better for everyone at the end of the day Mm-hmm For sure I agree. Um, we you know, we have sorry go if you have a follow up to that Well, I was going to say kind of talking about, you know, bornac and um You know smaller like talking about like the like cm team, right? And if there's a smaller cm team gms are The the the entire like appeal system everything is like totally different in retail. Wow now than it was, you know 14 years ago um What kind of impact do you think that could have on classic by having like a smaller cm team by having uh But not having like a team of gm like a fully fleshed out team of gms like before as far as like Nothing being automated in the past compared to now. Well, yeah, and that that influences maybe why they Wanted to add right click reporting. So yeah, I guess that's that's what I was going to ask Oh, okay. Yeah, so perfect Wait, sorry. Well, you uh, you cut out in the call for a second so I couldn't hear what you said um Talking about like having a smaller cm gm just moderation team in general as a pair to the past compared to the past, excuse me Um, and then like stay safe added in like, you know, the the potential of there being a right right click report and all that Uh, how do you feel about that? Like what kind of impact do you think that could have? It's it's it's interesting it's interesting from a player's like psychology perspective of seeing how the classic community would respond to say like a right click report Uh, I I'm interested in seeing how they would behave you with it Uh, uh, it would be terrible dude. We would be It's it's interesting. Um, I don't think there's necessarily really a concern with say gm staff and it's more so of just something that Say the modern client has that is that we use that's used that that does work and it's useful. Um Keep keep in mind. There's still a lot of stuff built into say the right click reporting that tries to Do the best it can to mitigate any sort of malicious use and if players are maliciously reporting people They do get suspended for that. That is something that is against the rules and will get you it will get you in trouble Um Most you know, I know a lot of the feedback is actually coming from Players who say I've seen like, you know a one or two maybe youtube videos about it or haven't played the retail game But players who maliciously abuse any sort of reporting system or the gm staff To do any sort of nefarious things like That'll get you in trouble. Don't do that I don't don't do that. Uh, it'll it'll get you it'll get you a longer suspension than what you were trying to give someone else Um, just don't just don't do that. Um There's a there's a There's a good reason for the classic community to not to not be okay with that future and I understand that um, I Yeah, I'm I'm just kind of curious I want to I would love to see both worlds where one existed and one didn't just to kind of see what the difference You would be I definitely Because like the social dynamics and just the meta of these two games is so Different a solution that was wise and retail. Well might not necessarily be what I would say Definitely would not be wise for classic. Well, it would require a different solution It could require a different solution It could be the same pro it could be the same program, but it functions totally differently on the back end We don't know. I don't think that decision has even been made yet. Um, It could be it could be totally different to where say, uh, it doesn't actually Do anything until game master actually reviews it which is for the most case how the retail one work Like, uh, nothing actually is done unless a game master actually gets reviewed But say if it's a it's like a chat thing someone will get say squelched They won't get suspended or kicked out of the game They'll get squelched and then it'll get reviewed by a game master and then decided what to what to be done Um, the classic one is probably going to function somewhere in that lines if it does have that keep in mind We still don't even know if classic is going to have right-click reporting Uh, that isn't that isn't something that's like communicated and concrete It's it's something that could not even be happening and we're Being afraid of something that might not even exist Uh, but it's interesting to think about just of seeing how players would behave with seeing how the classic community would behave with that system Uh, just to run like a cruel little experiment on all of them just to be like Let's just turn it on to see what happens for like a week or two Right. Yeah. I think uh, you you would say that it's important. I know that's something that you know The sky is falling. We have a tendency to do that A little bit a little bit, uh, but do you still think it's important to, um Express like, you know properly express like, you know, we this is something that like we don't want to see happen Right the right click report and we've talked about the trading for phases all that I know yeah The dev team sees that the dev team will absolutely see that if you guys are being very vocal and not wanting something like that It's trust me their players just like you guys are they Some of these solutions that they have to propose sometimes they don't actually want but it's the best solution to a problem that they have And they probably don't even want it like I could guarantee you No one on the classic team actually wants to have say sharding for example But they might have to have it at the beginning because if it gets insane like we're all expecting it to be You're gonna have to have it Kind of one of those one of those worlds where this whole thing could just be a huge explosion We kind of need to set at least some stuff up just in case Uh But it's something that they're monitoring discussions on and constantly evaluating on if this is the correct solution to the problem I really hope that there's like a stress test or something that's done like maybe like a closed beta or closed closed stress testing period or something where They okay let it roll throw them out there Let's just let's just have everybody go in No sharding and just see what happens with with 5 000 people in the world right just see what happens Uh, and then you do it again with sharding. I think that way you First off the team gets to see it. That's that's honestly, that's the most important thing But also having that level of transparency and having so many other people, you know in the community getting to see it as well Like oh, okay, I see how this plays out or oh, you know what? We don't need sharding at all Like this this actually works out just fine. Um, yeah I mean, so I I guess like as like sort of a sort of follow-up to that question What do you think the chances are that we don't have a beta or alpha and we only have like a couple two-day stress tests Or something like that. Do you think that's possible? I Think that would happen, but that would be like the worst-case scenario for probably the the The game I could see that potentially happening of just like stress testing But that's literally the worst-case scenario. I'm pretty sure that team does not want that kind of thing They would they that's not that's not it's it's good data for a stress test But it's not good enough data for say how the zones are functioning or how the scripting is working That's not enough to work on Yeah, it could be they like open up a zone for a day That's something that could be a potential where it's like, hey, let's let's let's take the concept of shorter tests But let's just be like, all right on this between this time and this time Say westfall is going to be enabled everyone starts with a templated character go and you do the zone or you know A couple days later. It's like, all right westfall works. We fixed some things that were a problem everyone now do Stone tally mountains. We'll see how this works Do the same thing for dark shore. Can you go down the list of zones that you feel might be a problem? Um, I could see that happening of like short term bursts, but very specific on what they need to work on And all of this obviously happens, uh, hopefully before classic launches, but I wanted to ask you after classic launches um Has there has ever been communicated that there's a plan to sort of monitor how the game is is Being played after launch to see if anybody's exploiting Anything, you know, any old exploits or possibly new exploits that that come out, you know as a result of a downpour from the existing client um In particular, there's a couple of examples on private servers with regard to like gold farming Diarmall east gold farming, you know, it's a very very profitable business stuff like that. Um Will will there be a team to kind of monitor what's going on with the game after releases and potentially adjust any exploits or bugs that might You know be a byproduct of of the client down porting I'm pretty sure that we'll be taken care of and I kind of know some details That's going to be stuff that you never hear the information about Uh, but pretty sure that that will be covered and people will be watching Okay, that should be that should be pretty that should be fine that's going to be really easy stuff because luckily for in this case say, uh Classics since it's running on say the skeleton of you know, the modern game A lot of the advances and stuff that the end processes that they have for You know, say people doing exploiting they're going to have some of that some of the some of that power Uh, so I wouldn't expect a problem people are still probably going to buy that's gonna you can't stop that for permanently Uh, however, you can ban it swiftly and harshly Mm-hmm Gold selling. Yeah same thing It'd be the same thing Uh, I would expect it to be treated the same way like the the life game is I wouldn't I can't foresee really any difference and keep in mind This is all conversations that aren't even happening yet. I don't think uh, but I would expect that to be covered Mm-hmm. I wouldn't see any issue at all with with that being taken care of Uh, I did want to ask you guys a question That I you know, if I've missed this on a classic cast, I'm sorry Um, what do you guys think about since Since it's using like say the demo for example used say the seven three five seven three client, right? And it's using a lot of that but it's repurposing all the data for Classic, uh, since it's using those those older client or the the current clients and the current say apis How do you think that's going to impact say add-ons for example? Hmm See this is this is something I've been really fascinated on lately and up leading up to me Of course being laid off now not being able to participate in this conversation internally, but right I was very curious on on what you guys think because there's a world where say Some of the crazy some of the crazy add-ons that exist in retail could work in classic Our players will figure out how to get them to work in classic because you're using say the modern client So you might see an add-on say particularly like we chorus for example exist in classic Or an ad or like something like lvi existing in classic Because you would have a way to create those in there because you're using all the modern stuff Like this is just something to talk about Yeah, so that's how it was on the demo. Uh, you know, it was using the 7.3.5 api, right? Um from what I understand and I I don't know a ton about add-ons, but from what I understand The vanilla wow api was actually much more open-ended You could do a lot more than you can do on the modern api And so my concern would be that things would be too open-ended and you could you could do a lot of meme-y stuff Um in vanilla wow and you've seen in our private servers Um, so my concern is that it would be too open-ended not that you would have Modern stuff being backported. That's actually A lesser concern for me. I guess Yeah, I think uh, there's things that you could do in vanilla that are kind of crazy like I know, uh This was something that had to be fixed now. I don't now here's the thing I don't know if this because I didn't do this in retail vanilla Um But I I did do this on private server. I tested on president and worked and then they had to go and they had to fix it like server side Um There was something you there's something you do where you could use like the on-use effect of an ability or a trinket Or sorry a weapon or a trinket or something and you could use a well I guess you would only use it on a weapon right because it would only be useful in combat You would do it and then you would swap it to another weapon And you would keep the buff Whereas whenever you use something whenever you use a trinket or a weapon or whatever that gives you a buff for however much Period of time It actually drops off of you whenever you equip something else But there was something you could do with this like you could have a script that goes and you run it Like with a macro swaps it and then you keep the buff like for an on-use for a weapon or something And then it doesn't work Uh, or it does work and it wouldn't have worked normally such as like, you know No much crowd pummeler was like that and then that's been fixed since then I mean, um Yeah, like regarding the question about add-ons I definitely think there's there's a very high risk for some of the more modern add-ons to kind of creep their way into classic And I do think it's going to be a problem. I do think there has to be some kind of intervention Um, obviously there were add-ons during vanilla and there shouldn't be any restriction in terms of the ability to make add-ons But I mean there's a lot of things you could do that I think trivialized the vanilla experience And in some ways are just completely contradictory to what vanilla was about. Yeah add-ons like that I do hope that blizzard steps in and says You know this out on no like break the out on in some way this cannot be in the game Yeah, right You can create so many things. I mean you talked about weak auras like weak auras like some kind of Looking for dungeon or looking for group style tool could be created like a lot of things that could really destroy What vanilla was about could come into the game via add-ons I hope something's done about it. So I was going to say am I am I misremembering? I feel like at blizzcon. Ian Has ghost has talked about this. He said if there were add-ons that make it in into classic. I remember that too That just fundamentally undermine the classic experience. They'll shut them down. He said something to that to that effect, right? Yep. Okay. Yeah, good. Yeah, I thought I remember that too. So that's at least there's that right you have some uh Security in that I guess now something like weak auras um Weak auras as it is doesn't really work It wouldn't really work in classic because one of the big things in classic is If you guys remember may just had detect magic, right? You can't see the opposing players buffs Um, the only way that you could detect if somebody had something is if you had detect magic on them Or if you actually saw them cast it, uh, I think that's part of the gameplay Like you'd see their debuffs and whatnot, but as far as like their self buffs Um You you wouldn't have been able to see that so with in current wow you can see everything on the opposing player So weak auras sees that and then boom here it is it pops up. So I don't know. I don't think uh As long as that just like base functionality works the same way that it used to something like weak auras I don't think would be as big of a deal. Um I don't know there's there's all kinds of add-ons right now like deadly boss mods whatever um Big wigs stuff like that that whenever a boss or Somebody uses a certain ability something pops up on your screen. So there's stuff like that already chronometers another one What's the cc one the cc? Cc watch is one, but what's the one i'm thinking of do you know cc? Is that what you're thinking about omni cc? Yeah Um, was omni cc the vanilla one stay safe. Do you remember? I think it was on cc. I don't ever know Yeah, there was one that I I can't remember if I think it was omni cc but um But yeah, I mean there's there's all kinds of stuff right now that kind of work in in the similar vein as weak auras But I think the the weak auras functionality Uh as it is wouldn't really work with uh with vanilla how the vanilla works So, yeah, there's that Yeah, we'll have to see like I I would put a lot of faith in what yin said about um If there's something that just like just totally undermines what how classic was supposed to be played I would expect them to shut it down 100 and you know there there were add-ons in vanilla wow and add-ons that Maybe even people use on private servers right now that I would argue undermine classic about gameplay So we'll have we'll have to see I mean it's and they're going to have to determine that stuff on a very individual basis and It's yeah, it's going to be very interesting how that plays out Real quick guys before we before we continue. We still got we still got plenty of time left. Don't worry But if you haven't yet, please, please, please It's in the chat right now. I switch point follow If you haven't yet, please Follow sikar on twitch. Yeah, this has been streaming on twitch more recently. Kaden sikar now He's been streaming on twitch. Please follow him and please follow stay safe tv Follow tips out baby tips out. It's going to be playing hordes. Stay safe is going to be playing alliance We're going to have separate guilds. They've both started their guild applications But we'll be playing on pvp servers. That's our plan and uh, so yeah, please go follow them twitter YouTube twitch all that stuff. It's right there in the chat. It's it's just their twitch, but you can go to their pages and You can go to their pages and you can see all their other links and of course it's on the screen as well And also for me, you know, you can follow this channel if you want make sure to follow s1 tv And invest, you know twitch stocks.com invest in svn tv all pump no dump. Yeah, just pump it, dude So yeah, no plenty of that. So yeah, thank you guys for the follow It's really we really do appreciate that I mean the the amount of support you guys have given us since we've started doing the show and The follows for again stay safe tips everybody and I know you ever since has gotten or sycara has gotten plenty of support Since you know everything went down a couple weeks ago Which has been really awesome to see and it just kind of goes to show like how strong the classic wow community is and How you guys can like really rally behind somebody that that you really support So hearts in the chat for you guys for sure 100% Um Also pretty soon. We're going to do a q&a. So if you guys want to tweet at us, you know at sfane tv tips out Maybe stay safe warlock hashtag classicast Um We'll answer some tweets. We'll look at twitter. Uh, we'll also take some questions from chat as well Uh Is there anything else you guys want to hit on I actually have one question that was already asked that we can uh That we can get to if you guys don't have anything else that you guys want to hit on, right? Uh, or if you guys Yeah, I'm ready for q&a You ready? I'm ready. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay, billy ready. Uh, this is from anime weed Uh, he says This is a question for everyone I wanted to know your own personal decisions for content etc And what you would do with classic wow if blizzard hired you as the lead director of classic wise development Pre-release during rive release and beyond. Wow. It's that's a that's a big question Um, so that's like two questions, right? Wait, is he is he looking at our our streaming slash youtube content? And then also what we would do if we were the head of the wow the classical team. So two questions. Yeah. Yeah two questions basically, okay, okay um Do you want to start too safe? Yeah, sure like one one thing I'm really looking forward to doing with classic wow is and I did this when I was playing on undocumented servers and I people really like this um I I think I did two of these videos back in the day I did sort of like a count update videos So maybe I think once a week with classic wow, I want to do like a count update videos and talk about okay This is where I'm at on this character. These are my professions. These are my reputations. This is the progress I've made um Since the last video and I'll talk about all the alts I have and people really like those there. I think there's a lot of people that So I'm going to be playing um Classic wow at a super super no life level And I think people are going to want to follow that journey And they'll be invested in sort of my journey. Um Even though they can't play Even though they can't know life to the same extent So I'll sort of like try to bring them along People really like that when I was doing that on private servers. So that's that's one thing. I'm really eager to do I think uh, um I'm in the same boat as that actually I saw some like old like I didn't play osrs But I saw I saw like some old old scrimmage skate videos where I saw people were doing that and I thought that was like a Really good idea and and people seem to enjoy that and they seem to be like personally invested in the stream and the progression of your character um Like whenever I was streaming Like I remember it was like, oh like is s-fan finally going to get a bone river's edge this week You know is I've so furious going to drop and people would go and I remember like when we're doing rag Like my views would spike every week, right? Because people would maybe tune in and out and like just kind of like where are they this and all of a sudden you would have like a 50 hundred viewer spike whenever you're killing ragnaros because one people want to see the fight Uh, they want to see if I would die because I would die almost every week because I'm just pepe guy. I guess I don't know Nobody would heal me. It's their fault So, um, you can heal yourself. Listen your rep palette. I took I don't have where it is I have too many abilities on my hotbar to be able to make room for heals. Okay as a rep palette And it's very hard. Just don't worry about it So, yeah, I know like my views would spike because they're like, is he gonna get it? Is he gonna drop this week? So Yeah, I mean stuff like that. I think people get like genuinely invested I remember one of the biggest memes on the server was I would just be in mc and people would just link items not in my guild people that I might not even know And we would be in world chat and it'd be grats s-fan breastplate of might I can't even use the item Like I can't even use the thing grats s-fan thunder for whispers. Did you get it? Did you get it? I remember whenever I first got my spinal reaper like in my first epic weapon that I actually got it was like the coolest experience and Uh, just seeing how many people on the server were like so excited that I I finally got a rag weapon Right, it wasn't a br but it was a spinal reaper and like I remember sitting in iron forage I was on the the step and just everybody was coming around waving at me people were sending whispers Congrats, man. Super excited for you all this stuff and seeing that like level of community Like there's so many memes and stuff that comes out of it where it's like Oh grats s-fan just became a meme on the server because it was like a rep prio and all this stuff and I got the onslaught girdle Uh, but I I like kind of look look back on that and it was a very fond memory. I have of How excited people were and like supportive of like oh the the guy like he finally got the weapon So it was it was pretty cool and I would like to do a lot of like character updates stuff like that and Very similar with my streams like raid streams pvp streams one of one of my things that I used to do And uh, one of the things that I would aim for on my old streams was if I'm streaming Vanilla wow and I think this is why my channel grew so fast Is every stream something was happening something was being accomplished There was a goal and that's not really the case with a lot of like retail while streams right now It's a lot of more like chill hang out Um, maybe you might be doing something maybe you might not be but it's it's it's like just like having like a Good time right whereas Hold on. Sorry. I don't know what happened. Um Whereas on my vanilla streams, it was like, oh, we're doing palette and police force.  We're doing mc. So yeah, I think stuff like that is Uh, is really cool. So Yeah, that's kind of it for me tips. You want to go ahead? um I mean, I'm going to be making a lot of videos of uh me ganking these fine gentlemen Surround them. You're right here I'm sure with even numbers, right tips. I'm sure even numbers. I did absolutely. We'll see plenty of one of v3s, of course and Continuing the guides uh that i'm working on right now. Just you know, whatever guides they don't finish before classic I'll just continue those after classic as well um But yeah, I mean, I like the idea of doing the journey update thing, uh that these gentlemen are talking about um We'll see how I end up doing it It might not be vods. It might be kind of cut it up bits and pieces something along those lines But the reality is once classic launches It's going to be so hard to make videos, uh that require a lot of effort. So we'll see what happens, but You know, definitely going to be streaming a lot more than making videos, but but we'll see Yeah, and I mean You've talked about this a little bit, uh, sacar Uh, like how how much like you're streaming or like if you uh, you know, you are looking for A job as well. You're trying to kind of find out like the best option for yourself Uh, what do you foresee happening as far as if you were to be streaming full-time or if you were to be working? Uh, so I've pretty much decided that if I go wherever I go to work, I'm probably going to continue streaming So I'm probably going to keep up with that just because it's it's been so fun Uh, I'd like to kind of continue this. I mean I'm I've seen I've seen what you know, what all comes from that from this kind of thing Uh, it's it's fun not hanging out with you guys and getting to do things like this Uh, so I want to keep doing that. Uh, so Really, I I plan on just kind of doing like just regular kind of streaming of going through classic and People would get to kind of see me get to experience the content that I never got to experience whenever it was live Uh, so at least for me, I'm going to be giddy the entire time because I've I Haven't played any private servers. I haven't actually done any of the content So I don't I never got to actually experience any of it. So it'll be my first time going through a lot of it Uh, at least dungeon wise. I think the only dungeon I ever really did in classic was dead mines And that was it. Uh So that'll be a whole like a new experience for me getting to to to see all that stuff Uh, work wise, uh, who knows where I'm gonna where I'm gonna be at the moment. Uh But we'll we'll see we'll see what comes there There you go And then kind of the follow up with that and and before we take some more questions and again guys, uh Tweet at us hashtag classic ask give us a follow on twitter. Uh, and and we'll be looking at more questions from twitter. Um But also like, uh, kind of the second part of that question was, uh, if we were if we were lead director of wow Right, like what what direction we like to take or lead director of like classic wow Like what direction we want to take class again? Uh, do one of you guys want to start or Uh, I I'll go ahead and start actually so For me like the way I see it. I think that Uh, I think that it's on the right path, right? They want to go through and they want to release classic I think that there's certain things that they should should definitely not be there like loot trading Should probably definitely not be there. I think that a fair compromise would be to, uh, If they absolutely feel like they have to have loot trading I think a fair compromise would be that it's only Active whenever you're in a raid environment and you have master loot selected But if you're doing group loot or need before greed round robin all that stuff Then there's there's no loot trading in that situation. Um It's it's it needs to be scaled back a lot. I don't want to see right-click report Uh, I don't want to see people get muted in chat that I that's like the most I actually don't type in trade chat and retail wow that often Because if I type three messages within like 10 or 15 seconds, I don't know what it is It mutes me and I can't talk anymore and then by the time that it's unmuted I'm like, okay, I don't even care to talk So like that's another thing that I think a lot of people would really like I would just kill social interaction On the server so there's like those things that I would take out but talking about Playing or how how classic is going to play out beyond I would really like to see burning crusade. I would like to see wrath I think that right now that's all that most people will want to see but by the time we finish wrath It's going to be five six years down the road and I don't know There's going to be people at that point that are nostalgic about cataclysm and mop even and whereas I personally am not and I Don't think I will be I think there's going to be other people that are And I'd be very curious to see how that ends up playing out. But for me personally, I think just like the first three makes the most sense Oh, you're a dance game. Yeah, you'd love mop. You'd love mop your pally. I heard it. I heard it was pretty good Yeah, mcconnell mcconnell loved it from from what I understand Um Sort of piggybacking off of that. I like if I were the director of wow, honestly Um, was it the director of blizzard the director of wow? Just like you were you're basically lead director of classic wow lead director of classic wow. Okay, um I mean to be honest and this is you know, a lot of credit to the current classic wow dev team Um, I think they're on the right track for about, you know for the vast majority of the game I think again the only things I would I would probably change is right click to report um, I would either remove the feature entirely or alter it to to the point where the with the automation doesn't trigger or triggers in far less cases and um Yeah loot sharing. I would just I would just remove that and then sharding Just remove that and then Just get rid of it dude. Just get it right but but everything else everything else I think is on the right track and I think that's really really good when you take into account just how many things They could have changed and how many small adjustments they could have made And you compare that to what we got at blizzcon and the philosophy at blizzcon Like I'm I'm pleasantly I was pleasantly surprised to see that You know the team themselves have have a very good Uh row of heads on their shoulders and I think it's going to be fine at the end of the day So more or less what they're doing now with with some small changes here and there Yeah, I pretty much agree. I I I genuinely have a lot of faith in the classic dev team I think I really think that they're trying to recreate classic while as authentically as they possibly can I'm I I think they're going to make the right decisions. Um If if I was in charge of one, I guess one change I would make and I understand I understand that if classic devs are taking time to so my change would be more communication I understand if classic devs are taking time to To communicate with us more often that's less time they have to develop the game, right?  You don't even have to really like take your eyes off the screen as you're developing You can just be like, hey, let's share this. This is a cool thing. They might be interested stuff like that You know, you can he can spend a couple weeks gathering some stuff and then and then display it to the players I think communication is very very important and I think that's that's one thing that, um, High-tail actually we're talking about high-tail or high-tail is doing so well with developing their their upcoming game Every every every week several blog posts screenshots. Just just snip it. It's not even anything of crazy substance It's just like, hey, uh, we're working and uh, here's just like a little tiny thing We've done uh in the last week stuff like that it's so cool And if and I know for a fact there are so many people that want to be wrong brought along for that trip Um, I think that would be great Yeah, I think so um I don't uh, kaden do you uh Actually, you know what this is uh, this will actually go well into another question kind of like a little two-part this for you What are your thoughts on content behind beyond nags? This is from fellerin content beyond nags. If they didn't just go to tbc What would you want to see? Like let's say you were in charge like let's say let's say there's content beyond acts. Would you like to see that or? Um, would you just want to go straight to tbc and and if so, what would you like to see? Uh, I would like to choice So I I'm very much a fan of of giving the the player choice in the scenario of if you go down the tbc route You have the option to copy your character on to say the tbc server and start tbc off But you retain your character and its data on the classic server and if you want to kind of try out say some new new content that they have basically if they're getting into this world of of classic and Remembering what vanilla was like. I would love for the opportunity to Kind of see that as well See it one if they could create stuff that would be true to vanilla as much as it could be or even trying to Use the old ideas that they had they never got to do Uh, and somehow managed to implement them, uh within within vanilla seeing if they could Hake those ideas and kind of In a modern sense. Can we pull this off that kind of thing? I'm pretty sure john stats kind of talked a lot about some of their ideas from back then that they They had but they never had the bandwidth to actually do in this case seeing if they could do that But it gives you it gives you the choice for both If you want to go to tbc suite you can go, but you're not penalized if you want to also experience this kind of Shot in the dark of of new content That's that's something uh I I agree with that too like just the concept of being able to like character copy To to a burning crusade fresh server like you can either level from scratch or you can copy a character over and then you maybe have like like holding servers stasis servers and Where where they stay on 1.12 forever And Basically you can just stay there and play that and then over time like sure that might dwindle and there might be fresh servers that open up Because it ends up being this big spider web that I could draw out um We're basically like okay, you have burning crusade you have classic fresh You have the server that's still here and then you have holding servers and over time, you know people Some people just want to play 1.12 forever like there's people that just genuinely did not want vanilla wow to end And they wanted to finish they wanted to farm naks Naks had come out burning crusade was coming out and they still hadn't even finished aq 40 They there's still so much time to Or there's so so much content to be done and not enough time to do it before you basically had the concept of uh forced progression Placed on you and that's something that you know it happens in like every mmo or anything that there's like an expansion pack Or something gets put out That's something that you have to deal with but I think having the ability to copy over and then maybe eventually like You know these people that just want to play 1.12 forever across like maybe 10 20 servers Which might be let's say 5000 server cap Dwindles down to an average of like you know 500 people online all the time Then okay now we can take these 10 servers and merge them into one under this holding server Which is 1.12 forever and you have all these communities coming together and these are all people that are about the same thing Just playing 1.12 forever and you could still level character. They're fresh and all kinds of stuff um I think it's kind of confusing to talk about I might make a video about that where Uh, I kind of explain like what I think could happen now. I don't know if that's like a good business decision or not I think it would be right you give players the option and and you have you give people more ways to play the game that they want to play but um I think these these these discussions were so we're not talking like we're talking a hypothetical where business wise it Doesn't rise kind of like what our dream would be and that's kind of where my I'm in the same mentality where That's why I said it'd be cool to have the opportunity to copy a character To say if tbc does exist you copy that character to tbc But you still maintain your classic character which allows you if you want to still do that you can keep doing that forever It's still there. Uh, you're not penalized Just for going to new content that or the the next level of content is not new, but it's the next content Mm-hmm. This is a uh, this is another question from us from tribe. He says, um What what are your personal thoughts on progressive itemization? It is a beast of a topic that doesn't have an easy answer It's a complicated one, uh, I've read a ton of reddit posts a bunch of forum posts Uh, where it kind of examines the different phases of say, uh, some items depending on the patch it's It's it's complicated. I wish I I wish I even had a An opinion on where it should fall right because what's what's weird is You're going to be in scenarios where Say if it runs with the 112 version of items that say are very strong I'm away stronger than say like the one five, but you're the content you're doing is even before one five It feels weird to do to do things with gear that's stronger later on than Uh, it was whenever you're actually doing it. It's current I honestly don't know what to do about that. That's that's a complicated question. Say team wise I would love for them to figure out a way where uh progressive itemization is say Say snapshotted to the time frame of the content that you're experiencing That may not be easily easily achievable because then you're gonna have to work with multiple versions of items say if you know Uh, say if the first, you know way at first, you know Set of the four content waves that they're talking about say if items don't The items versions are whatever they were before I don't know say one four You're gonna have to deal with those versions and then say we go to the next one when it's like, all right Let's everything between four and one six. We run with those versions. It's complicated It's a lot it's a lot of work being added onto it And I don't think the team has an easy solution on this one and they're probably stressed figuring out how to solve that They could go with one twelve and just call it a day But it doesn't feel good to do that content with gear that guy buff And so you're now you're stronger than what that content actually was intended for you to be at It kind of takes it kind of takes a little bit away And it really makes it to where the only real content that you're experiencing at its current difficulty would have been next Rammus and it's going to take you forever to get to that point. Uh, it's going to trivialize a lot of the content beforehand Right. Yeah, I I don't think it's possible to have true 100% vanilla. Wow authentic progressive itemization I mean there there were items that changed Not even with with big patches. They just changed on a random Tuesday It was like a hot fix kind of deal There were so many item changes just randomly there you guys don't even like I don't know about them You don't know about them.  It's I don't think that's the right solution either. I think a really good middle ground is let's say they end up having um six content phases I would hope that they that each one of those would also be an itemization phase So kind of like you were saying, you know, six content phases each time the content phases There's also an itemization phase And maybe even before each new content slash itemization phase, you know the weeks leading up to that They release a list. Okay in three weeks when the new content slash itemization phase Happens. This is a list of every item that's going to change and how it's going to change I would love that that's that's I think a pretty good middle ground I think that progressive itemization has several parts to it, right? There's uh, when items are put into the game when items are changed And also when items are taken out of the end, there's some stuff that gets they get taken out, right? um I think that the most important thing that needs to be addressed is when items get put into the game um Even even on private servers like there hasn't been 100 percent perfect progressive itemization or um Like let's say nostre for example, right? Nostalgia release the tier two gear and blackwing lair with like the 1.9 reworks It was it was basically like the the newest version of the gear In the 1.6 patch whereas it should have been put in the 1.9 patch I think that's less of a problem than let's say Titanic leggings being put in the game for the very beginning, right? Then Other items that are really good being put in place from the beginning onslaught girdle being in at launch, right? The the flame guard gauntlet stuff like that quick strike ring um I think progressive itemization should be looked at in two separate kind of two kind at least two separate facets, right? Whereas like, okay. Well, these things change and if you're looking at different versions of items Maybe that's something that's going to be a little bit harder and like a separate like Project to tackle but as far as like when the items are actually physically put into the game put into the loot tables I think that absolutely needs to be done properly Yeah, so that's that's that's kind of what I think um I think most people would agree there needs to be Progressive itemization to some extent like the argument is to what extent right? What's the frequency? Um, but I think we're all pretty much like on the same phase or a same same page. I mean Hopefully there are multiple phases Yeah, that's what I wanted to make sure to clarify that that's a complicated thing to solve and I hope everyone realizes That's a complicated scenario It's like how do you how it is very complicated? How do you deal with this? That's a lot of data a lot of items a lot of different versions of items They even really tackle that I mean, maybe this is something you can speak about so they've said they have a running version of 1.12, right? Yeah, they have a reference client that they that they're they compare stuff to okay, right. Um I don't know. Maybe you know do they do they even have Like databases of 1.12 items and 1.3 items and 1.4. Do they even have this information? I honestly don't know. Uh, I'm sure that's got to be documented somewhere They have it in some sort of data somewhere But I honestly have no idea from from what I was told like the way they updated the game was that they They basically once everything like new version came out They didn't really archive a lot of the very early builds of wow, um, right That's why it ran in the problem of how do you do classic? Uh, and they happen to like from my understanding was this could be wrong. I could be totally like Sharing something that someone made up and told me but they actually had found Uh, an early version that allowed them to actually have a reference client and do this, right? so They happened to just find like a hard drive that had the data They like it was kind of that that kind of scenario where it's like, oh this actually exists Yeah, that kind of thing. Uh, I I don't know if they have any of that any of that old data But I think if they had it they probably they're probably going to figure out ways to use it or leverage that data to accomplish some of that stuff, but It's it's one of those weird things. It's going to make it it's going to make it feel weird Because like you're saying even even private servers don't get I have progressive progressive itemization I don't know it'll be interesting. Well, yeah, I mean what what private servers have to do They have to find old like alakazam or thought bot old web archives Yeah, and they have to find it for the appropriate time and so It's sort of just like stitching together all of this stuff And of course things get left out that they can't find there's there's no just database of all of it It's just man hours trying to find these old web archives. So You know, I I guess that I would hope that the classic dev team does have that information Maybe they don't I don't know I'll have to see Yeah, for sure. I think I think all that's really important This is a good question. Actually this question really leads into something else that it would be a good time to talk about this This is from rag rag shots. H