Okay we're back we're live with that flagship energy show it's Hawaii the state of clean energy and you can tune in every single Wednesday at 4pm and see amazing things about energy. You need to study energy you need to know about energy and do not watch Michael Moore's film planet of the humans because that is disinformation. Miss you and you want to say hello. Hey hello hi everybody from beautiful and lovely Kaniwi Bay overlooking coconut island. formerly formerly known as Gilligan's Island. Perfect.  That's Peter Russick spokesman for Hawaiian Electric. Hi there. I'm in downtown Hollywood overlooking coconut island. Miracles of television. That's a perception thing. So we want to talk about energy because we have to stay educated about energy even in, especially in the time of COVID, because you know, relentlessly climate change proceeds relentlessly we need to keep up with our initiatives. We need to move ahead. And I must say Peter that you know from all the little segments and clips we've had with you and other people from Hawaiian Electric, you are you continue to move ahead.  And that's one of the reasons, aside from your smiling face that we wanted to see you here today. There was a piece in I think was civil beat or was it in the star advertiser today, and it was about some new projects 16 new projects as a kind of a big number. Can you talk about it. Sure. I remember this is actually the second phase of what of this effort to increase the amount of renewable energy on our system. We're at about 28% and we are all we're confident of being at 30% by the end of this year, but we still have a long way to go to get to 100% by 2045. And in particular, we've got some, some power plants, some fossil fuel generation that will be closing up in the next couple of years. The AES plant here, the Kahului power plant on Maui, Big Island has needs that, you know, are very vulnerable because of their, their volatile geographic situation. So we've gone ahead with the second phase of this request for proposals. We put it out some eight or nine months ago now, I guess, and we got about 75 responses, which was pretty good. We're looking for a large, the largest ever tranche of new, of new projects and of megawatt hours of generation and also storage, which is becoming increasingly important. So in the first phase, as you remember, we had about eight projects across the islands, 260 megawatts. And those are proceeding now and, and, you know, some are under construction, some are still in the planning stages, but those are in the bag. And although we fear there may be some slowdowns to the virus, we think they're basically on schedule. We put out a request for a second phase, very aggressive. We wanted to really see what the market would bear. And we got back to 75 proposals. We've got them down to about 16, which are the best. Some of them are really just, you know, kind of waste of time, but some of them are very good, except they're very expensive. And we are still, you know, one of our priorities is still price. We are not going to pay any amount of money for renewable energy at this stage. We're going to wait, hope those prices come down as they have for solar and for rent. So the result of this effort was we've got 16 projects across the three islands. They are all story, all solar and storage, and a few of them are what we call standalone storage.  It's a big battery. And during the day, we can use the excess renewable energy from these many solar plants, or we can use regular generation if we have it in excess, and we can charge up those batteries. And then starting at about four or five in the afternoon, we can unload those batteries. They have about four hours of use in solar. And that way we take this renewable energy from the middle of the day to the afternoon and evening. Well, you know, that's impressive. And I know from the newspaper articles on your press release, you're not in a position yet to tell us exactly who or where. Exactly right. And I know that's causing some heartburn. And it's understandable. We're kind of in between a rock and a hard place here. We want to tell people about this, but we don't necessarily want people to wake up in the morning and pick up their star advertiser and say, oh, you know, there's going to be a big solar project outside your window and nobody ever told you about it. That's a bad way to start that process. So we've given each of these developers who we have put onto the shortlist 30 days to go out to their respective communities. Some are already making announcements. Some are still trying to get organized. And you know, this is particularly difficult right now in normal times. Some of these developers would be here in the islands talking to people, you know, scoping out the communities around where they want to build and so forth. That's not happening. They're not able to travel. They're not willing to travel because they want to be at home with their families and so forth. So it's a double bind in that respect. And it's very difficult. But we have, we've said, you know, 30 days from now, we'll release a list of the names of the projects where they are, how big they are and so forth. And in the meanwhile, we are really hoping that these developers will get out there and some of them already have made some announcements and made some contacts. Others are a little slower, but you know, it'll be 30 days from now and then we'll have the complete list out there. Meanwhile, we're beginning the negotiation process. We have to negotiate the final what we call the purchase power agreement and those will go to the public utilities commission and the comments of the neighbors will also be included in those when they get to the public utilities commission.  And, you know, we've got to, we recognize that we're, we've got to respond to that and trying to get the word out, explain to the communities what's going on. And I just feel that we have forgotten, we as a community have forgotten our original intention in the matter was to deal with climate change to deal with carbon to go renewable and to do everything we can possibly do to get where we want to go. It's, it's critical for our role in the world and our reputation, and I, well, reputation and, well, I'll say reputation I mean our reputation as a renewable energy state. Right. You know, I think we've always been willing to have renewable projects in our somebody else's backyard and you know, if it, we're always willing to, you know, do it if it's not in our line of sight and so forth. But we're getting to the point frankly where they're, you know, these projects in size and scope and location are no longer invisible and I don't blame anybody for saying, you know, I'm concerned about what happens in my neighborhood. I'm concerned about what's going to be here. I moved in here when that was an empty field, but you're right. Ultimately, if we're going to get to 100% renewable energy or even close, we're going to all have to be looking at things that we never saw before. And look, you don't have to comment on this but but I would like to express a view on it. My view on it is it's not constructive Thomas Jefferson said, make yourself useful. That means make yourself useful to the community. And anybody who wants to stop a project that's obviously for a good purpose. That's, you know, important to our community and, and to everyone in our community and beyond our community is really standing in the way. And he should reconsider or she should reconsider that view. I think it's time already where we began thinking that way, especially in light of COVID, where it's a pull together or we hang together. One or the other. So I'd like to ask you Mitch how do you feel about this. You know the NIMBY thing is old already. People have got to stop doing that. I don't agree. I don't agree. I'm sorry. Can I, can I go ahead, Mitch? I'll jump in.  You know, it's, I don't think it's old. I think it, it doesn't really come into play until it's something that really begins to impact you personally and I don't personally think somebody being concerned about what's happening in their neighborhood is a bad thing. I think, and I do think that sometimes community people can come in and say, well, what about if you did it this way? Or what if we, you know, are there changes that could be made? Or, you know, what if it's a little small? I think people of good faith now people of good intent ought to be informed what's going on. They ought to be listened to. And if we can do, if the developer or Hawaiian Electric can deal with the concerns and still not abandon the project, I think that's a good thing. I think the people who come in and say, no way, not in my neighborhood, definitely not here doing somewhere else, send it to Waianae or, you know, out on some other island and so forth, that's not productive and that's not constructed. I don't think it's fair to the well intentioned people among us. And I still think there are a lot of those people who are, who want to know what's going to happen in their neighborhood, how it's going to affect their homes, their property values and so forth. And to say, well, you know, what are the impacts going to be? And are there some ways that we can, you know, make those impacts less or make them a little more tolerable? I don't have a problem with that. I think the problem that we have encountered in some of these projects is a kind of a no negotiation, absolutely not. You know, you're violating some sacred trust or something. That's when I begin to have a personal problem with it. So Hawaiian Electric is committed to this community outreach. We are insisting that our developers do that. You know, I'll tell you one other thing, we have some projects of our own. For the first time in this process, we can do what we at Hawaiian Electric call self-build. In other words, we propose projects and it was separated, there was a wall between our people doing the proposing and the people doing the evaluating. And there was an independent observer who was watching to make sure we didn't get any preferential treatment. We put in about four projects, two of them got accepted, two of them did not. But we have begun and we will continue to go out to the communities where those are going to be. And they were going to say to them, here's the plan, here's what we're going to do. You know, can we get your cooperation or can we at least get your toleration of this? So we're holding ourselves to that standard and we're holding these other developers to that same standard. You've got to go out to the community. You can't just show up one day with bulldozers. And I don't think that's a bad system. Okay, well, you know what you say sounds very reasonable and good for Hawaiian Electric, you know, for taking that position and dealing with it that way. But I still want to hear from Mitch and see what. All right. Mitch, go. I was on mute because I have a bunch of helicopter activity here so I didn't want to drown you guys out. So, yeah, I totally agree with what Peter was saying. I had a little bit of experience. I had to my geothermal project. I had to go and present to the community in Pune. They have a very vocal anti geothermal crowd there. But, you know, we're at the, we're at the community center. And there were a lot of the silent majority showed up and, you know, so we have a kind of a balance. And the anti geothermal, there was a component in the anti geothermal problem. It doesn't matter what you say, like you're saying, Peter, it's just like, no way, the highway, you just don't want to do it. Whereas the community itself, they asked good questions, they were interested in the project. I think they all supported, in this case, it was a hydrogen project, they all supported it. And I think there was a lot of value in doing it. I wonder if 30 days is enough time. I mean, it seems like a pretty short timeframe to be able to A, get the people up there, then give them a chance to think about it. But nevertheless, giving them the chance. Now, we saw, for example, in Waimanello, I guess there's competing opinions of what happened there, but they just, like you said, Peter, they just arrived with the bulldozers one day knocking down all these, you know, old growth trees and boy, people just, you know, were really anti about that. Now, you could say that the lead up to that was not well done, because, you know, the city's claiming, well, we had all these meetings for the last five years. Well, you may have had all those meetings for the last five years, but the word didn't get out. And people were surprised. And so it's like no surprises. And you look up at the North Shore. I think a lot of people who are pro wind were even surprised at how big those wind turbines were and how close they were to buildings.  But it's kind of hard. If you're just using drawings and things like that to give a feeling of the size of these things until you're like standing right next to one, and they're big. And so they do have an impact. I know, for example, some of the given given take is like up in the northern end of Big Island, they have a wind farm up there. And one of the big complaints community was, well, they have these strobe lights. And when I bought this property, there were there were no, there were no wind turbines there and I bought it so I could look at the stars and all this kind of stuff. Now I've got all these strobe lights blaring off. And so they worked on a solution to that where the strobe lights were only on when they when there was an aircraft was going to land at their little airport up there and you could trigger a switch and switch on the strobe lights when he was close enough and then they switch them off. And that worked. So there's a, there's an example of the community working together with the developer to smooth it out and come up with a solution that everybody can live with.  Otherwise, what are we doing?  And at some point, it's going to start encroaching on the view planes and that of people. So you've got to make allowances for that. Peter, I would first of all, I want to point out that the developers have 30 days to start their community outreach, not to finish. You're absolutely right. You can't do anything in 30 days, especially in this current environment where a lot of people are going to be thinking more about how they're feeding their families and how they're keeping them safe. Not normal times, but we're saying to these developers, you have 30 days to start and we'd like you to start even sooner. If you haven't started in 30 days, we're going to make the announcement. And then you're going to catch some flak from the people who are going to say, well, how come, you know, the developer themselves didn't come to me or didn't come to our community. So it's 30 days to get started before we announce these plans ourselves. And it's going to be months before these these community outreach programs are completed. So that's absolutely right. And I agree with you there. There's room for improvement from well meaning and from well intentioned people who want to talk it over and say, how can we solve this is a problem for us. How can we solve this problem. And there's no doubt that, you know, we all hear about how this is happening. That's happening. They've been talking about repaving the street outside my house for years. And they finally did it. I was shocked. Two reasons because I didn't think they'd ever do it. And secondly, all of a sudden they were, and you know, I'm all in favor of that repaving, but it happened to be somewhat inconvenient. And that's the nature of human beings, I think so. Yeah, it's also Hawaii. We take our time sometimes and it really puts the crunch on projects. I remember, Castle and Cook once gave a talk in the venture capital association when permitting and they said their original project which was quite large out there and really lying somewhere. It took 40 years, 40 years to get the project approved. I can't afford that climate change is coming a lot sooner.  What would you do to socialize the project. I mean, especially in these times of coven seems to me one of the things I would do is I would write them a note I get contact to the community leaders. I would write them a note I'd network, you know, and then I try to do I try to do a zoom meeting, let everybody have at it. Take notes even record the meeting. And I'd make this as as good or better than a flesh and blood meeting, because we have the technology, and we can do that fairly quickly. And I think it's useful in many ways. One of my concerns is not only that people do that thing about never no way, my way or the highway kind of thing with a never to sort of terroristic negotiation with the never ever going to agree with you. But the other part. I'm sure you've experienced this is, I agree. I took a project. I'm with you. I support it. Okay, six months later, I changed my mind. And I really don't think that's fair. Anyway, your comment. Yeah, well, I agree with you and you've you've kind of laid out exactly what the things that these developers need to do and what Hawaiian Electric has done already with the projects that we were proposing we had zoom meetings, in which we presented the information we publicize those meetings, we have contacts and made contacts with more contacts with the people in those communities, not just elected leaders but community associations neighborhood boards. You know, there's even ways to find out who the real leaders of a community are they're not necessarily the elected leaders of the community as you know, they might be religious leaders they might be, you know, they might be Hawaiian activists leaders. There are leaders and people who are influencers in the community. And we do have social media now that allows us to, you know, get out to a lot of people and get that we didn't before. But at the same time, I think, especially in Hawaii that I think the absence of face to face meetings is going to be make make the things a lot more difficult. You and I mentioned we're not we're content to do this but you know we can't touch our noses if you know what I mean if and and in Hawaii being able to touch the nose of the other person that give him a handshake that you know, a Hawaiian style handshake and stuff. Those things go a long way and then not just with Hawaiian native Hawaiian people but with all of us. I think it makes things a lot more difficult and so as I said it's going to be hard for some of these developers who have very little experience and very little, you know, very small contacts here to do what needs to be done. But it does need to be done. And we need to be, you know, we can't stop the naysayers we can't stop. We can't, you know, do very much about the people are going to say no way. All we can do is make sure that on our side, we have done all the outreach we possibly can that we have communicated directly and you know whether it's email or letter or whatever with the people and that we've offered the meetings and that we've held meetings. All we can do is make sure that our side of this equation is is as perfect as it can be. And then when the, you know, when the intransigent ones come along, you know, people will say, Well, where did that guy was six months ago that guy said it was okay now he's changing his mind what's his problem. So all we can do is all we can do all we can do is be the best possible communicators for this community reach and there's going to be more of it you know because we're going to be soon we're going to be looking for solar community solar projects and those are in many ways just like these other projects and we're probably going to have wine electric self build projects and we're going to have other developers so I think this we're just trying very hard to make this the new normal you cannot do a project in Hawaii without going through the effort very sincere effort and reach out to the community listening to their comments and figuring out if there's anything you can do. But you know one of the problems in Hawaii are things take a long time here like like the castle and cook project I mentioned right and and we simply have to avoid unnecessary delay for this initiative. Otherwise we'll never make the target and things you know the Red Sea will will fall in on us after a while. So I guess my question is how do you see the timing on these 16 projects. Of course, you know developers have the opportunity to try to socialize, but when do you when do you draw the line. Also you mentioned and I'm talking about timing. Also you mentioned that you know one electric wants to expedite its process. One of the three commissioners has said that she said that at the January why entry policy forum legislative briefing. She said that on our show two weeks ago, and I'm sure that Jay Griffin, who is coming on our show week after next is going to say the same thing. But so is this going to work is this going to happen. I'll be really going to be faster now, even with all the challenges of COVID. So far, I think to some extent some of the some of the process gets can get faster with this kind of technology. You don't have to drive across town to have a meeting you don't have to, you know, put a put an application in the mail you can press a button and it's there. We had meetings with the public utilities commission and the solar contractors, and we looked very carefully at our processes and we came up with three steps, which we believe will make things move faster if you want to put a solar array on your home right right now and it's under 25 kilowatts, and it has the right protective equipment. You don't have to wait for an approval and you can go ahead and energize it as soon as it's constructed, as long as you have your city building permit, which can be a delay no question. But from our part we got out of gotten out of the way that it used to be that we would, if somebody was going to put in a certain kind of system, we waited till there was a final approval and then we began the process of changing the meter. Well now we're going to move that up and as soon as there's a conditional approval. We're going to start our process to get that meter change so the meter is out there much earlier in the process and the person cannot energize their system. And finally, this is all pretty technical stuff but we're you know, we're allowing contractors to put in a temporary meter that so the customer can energize their system. When we get our chance and opportunity with our other workload, we'll get there we'll put in what we call permanent revenue meter and so we're trying to get out of the way of that part and we think it'll reduce the time, which has been about six months, five to six months down, take about two months off of it. And part of this is to be able because we can do a lot of stuff electronically but physically we still have to get out there and change the meter. So Mitch, what do you think of all those ways to do this going to work? I'm mute. Yeah, I was on mute again because we had an offspring boy those things are noisy. So yeah I think that'll work I mean that's all good stuff to try and look at your systems and make sure that you're being as efficient as you can and moving forward and I think that was always one of the complaints that I hear a lot was that it takes, you know, both the permitting guys and the utility so long to do it. So this is this is really being responsive and I think on the other side too is, you know, we have more incentive to get the even more incentive to get these things done because we need to generate employment for people.  People need to work and our solar industry needs to get out there and they employ a lot of people. And so that'll help everybody and of course they spend their money in the community so it's all going to flow down. So that's what you call shovel ready, like let's make sure we can really go and it would be interesting to have a similar kind of a meeting with the permitting guys. So I'm just throwing this out as an idea is that Hawaiian Electric are going to talk to the city and say look guys you know you're taking way too long to do this, if that's the case, and work with them and show them how you might be able to shorten their process now. One thing we looked at I've said before is having a third party engineering firm do all the grunt work of, you know, looking at the drawings validating the drawing so that then they can just tell the, the permitting guy in the city that hey we've checked all the drawings everything is the code you can go ahead and approve this. And so you have several guys working in parallel and not seriously and get it done. So that would be a good conversation because you know you, I mean Hawaiian Electric has a lot of, a lot of expertise in this kind of stuff.  So maybe even talk to the mayor and then have a meeting of minds you guys have a brainstorming meeting and you're sitting there and have the solar industry there as well. And say come on guys, let's solve this permitting thing I mean everybody complains about permitting in this in this state. And it's time to get off the pot and do something about it and the first step is to talk about it with the people involved and find out what their problems are like. Good point, good suggestion. And we hadn't talked about it before but the idea is these projects these 16 projects are going to yield a number of jobs. And this is an essential activity. There'll be all kinds of capital flowing in all kinds of jobs flowing out, very valuable to the community and should be persuasive to people who care about restarting the economy. Well, this in the context Peter of, you know, getting on with it, doing it despite COVID, you know, making our new normal work for for energy. So we were out of time but I wonder if you could give some parting thoughts what you would like people to take away from the program. What I'd like people to take away is that you may be hearing about a project in your neighborhood or in your on your island. Maybe a for just a bunch of what looks like a bunch of massive containers and that's the standalone storage or maybe a solar, which, you know, is not wind so it doesn't stick up in the air in the same way. And, you know, we invite you to find out all you can about it. Don't assume anything about it. Find out the facts. Look at it. Think about what it will mean to you. And if you have some constructive criticism, we want to hear about it. We don't believe for a second that all of these developers ideas are just automatically perfect. But at the end of the day, recognize as you've said Jay and so many people have said, if we're going to solve global climate change, we're all going to have to have some different experiences. But what we what we look at in our neighborhood, whether it's a solar array or or an energy storage facility or, you know, we're not looking at any new wind facilities at the moment, but probably will not in the future. But, you know, there's a possibility we could have offshore wind before too long and most of it will be way out where you can't see it. But, you know, you go out in your boat and all of a sudden you can't see it. And if that's going to, you know, we can't allow that to throw a wrench in the works, be open minded, be fair, be constructive, find out all you can, and then, you know, come and talk to us where we are all we all. We all want the same, you know, good things for Hawaii and so I don't think this needs to be a terrifically adversarial process. That's one of the problems. And the mindset should be, of course, you have to take care of your own interests but at the same time, you should have another hand on for the community. You should care about the community. We have to focus on that. Yeah, not how can we stop this but how can we get this done in a fair, honest and useful way. That's got to be the attitude on a lot of things, not just energy but food, you know, housing. We used to have more of that here in Hawaii and now we don't have so much just like the rest of the country. We got to get back to that. Well, you know, let's see how we can make it work, not how. Yeah. Okay, Mitch, this is, we're way over but then that's not unusual. So maybe you could make a little summary about what we learned here today. I love when I ask you this. Well, it's a dirty trick. No problem. We heard a lot of good news from Hawaiian Electric and what they're doing to, you know, meet their goals. There's keeping the focus despite the, you know, the COVID pandemic that's affecting us all. I might add to just by way, you know, the lights are still on my computer still works like it's still working home so thank you very much for doing that. We're going to have, you know, we have to change our processes. And especially when 16 big projects hit all at once we're going to have to get our streamline our processes. And I think this is a great incentive the fact that we need jobs we need to get people back to work. Let's put all the agro aside and let's work for the common good so that everybody wins out of the same because you know that money comes in, and it flows down. It flows down to everybody. It's not just sitting in one big pot. So everybody wins here it's going to be a win win win situation. So thank you, Peter. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. We're all sitting around watching our late night movies. We have to remember who makes that possible. Thank you, Hawaiian Electric. Thank you, I appreciate it. Got a lot of people out there working to make that happen for you. Nice. Talk soon.


Happy Holidays from Drinks Made Easy. Today we're taking a look at an eggnog recipe. Specifically, the Jerry Thomas eggnog, as expressed both in his book and in Dave Wunderch's in Vibe. There have been a lot of different variations on this, especially because the original recipe calls for Santa Cruz rum, which isn't really a class of rum anymore, and during that time there wasn't a lot of regulation. So it could have been a really kind of weird and funky rum, but not nearly as weird and funky as some of our relatives this time of year.  You guys tingle? To build your Jerry Thomas eggnog, you'll start with just a little bit less than one ounce of simple syrup. Now some of the old recipes will call for one tablespoon or one heaping teaspoon of sugar with one heaping teaspoon of cold water to dilute the sugar, but really it's just a lot easier to pre-dilute that simple syrup, and if you're making a lot of these or you want to add a little bit of extra sweetness, making some simple syrup is going to save you a lot of time. Next, we're going to add one ounce of spiced rum and one ounce of brandy. Now for these two, you could use a non-spiced rum. I think spiced rum adds a little bit more flavor, and you could use a cognac if you have a nice aged cognac that you enjoy or a kind of a punchier cognac, but I do feel that generally brandies with a little bit more flavor are going to just give you a better cocktail. And next we're going to add three ounces of whole milk, one whole egg, whoop, a little bit of a splash, and cap that off into a shaker tin with just a couple of cubes of ice. Shake it until you basically can't hear those ice cubes anymore. And then you can just pour this right into the glass of your choice, since we were only using five small cubes of ice and I shook it until they were completely dissolved. You don't really have to worry about any bits of ice because it's all been integrated in. You have this lovely foam. And then on top, create a little bit of fresh nutmeg. And easy as that, you have the Jerry Thomas Eggnog. This is a great winter cocktail. The simple ingredients all blend together into something that is easy drinking and is not overly filling or heavy. I get light aspects of the spice rum rounded out by the cognac and it's just delightful, the foam that comes from integrating that whole milk along with that whole egg. This is also something where you can play around with different alcohols. So if you have particular ones that you enjoy integrating into your eggnogs at home or a different way to make the Jerry Thomas, let us know what you think. Cheers from Drinks Made Easy.


Gwda'r brifodol. Brexit-Linus iawn, Margellidwn. A wnaeth o doedd y Ddaidwyr rhagor caer? Roedd cyn ddechrau i ddweud mewn ddechrau yn y openig. Roedd ydw i'r pethau ysgolieddau yn y ddweud fy ysgolieddau'r cwm o anghydd mewn gwneud. A'r pethau yw'r ddweud sydd yn y ddweud am arweiniadau ar gyfer y ddweud rydych chi eisiau a'r parlyfwyr a ydw i'r parlyfwyr ar gyfer y ddweud drafodi ar gyfer yr hyn o'r bwysig. Fi'r captain yw gofynwyr sydd wedi cynnydd y bydiau sydd yn gweithio unigol ar gael gyrddwyr. Rwy'n meddwl i'r cwestiwn oherwydd, ac i'n gallu bod yn ei amser i'r cefynyddiau ysgrifennidol, i wneud i gweithio gwirio eu cael ei ysgrifennidol ac yn credu cael dechrau ac yn eistedd y cyfle ddaeth, ond rydyn ni'n symud sydd yn ei wentlygol i ei welau'r gilydd, i swyddi wrth i gwirio eu ddaeth, rydyn ni'n gweithio y gyrddwyr a'r peilain, gydymaethaf, this was designated S6W 10759, and I was given exactly the same answer six months later and this is just one example of something that is commonplace and experienced by many members across this Chamber. Deputy McWhyley, what can you do on our behalf as members, to ensure that the Government even attempts to answer written questions that myfyrdd ymddangos i gael'r unrhyw gwaith yma yn y cyfnodol. Rydyn ni'n ddweud hynny, dyma. Mae'n ddweud hynny ni'n ddweud hynny yma yn y cyfnodol. Rydyn ni'n ddweud hynny'n ddweud hynny'n gweithio ei bod gennych gwaith yma, a gallwn ei ddweud hynny yn ei ddweud hynny i gael'i gael. Dwi'n meddwl, gwnaethwch i'r gwaith. Mae'n gweithio i'n meddwl yma'r ysgolfaeth yma'r cwmhiliol. Mae unrhyw ychydig yn ei gaelio gyntaf, ar ddweud yn cymdeithasol, ac eich cyfnodd ddweud yn gorau y gwyllgor ymddydd, a'i ddigonod o'i ei hwn i'r amgylch yn y cyfnod periodically ar gyfer y cyfnod periodau ar y cyfnod i weithiant? Felly, dwi yn dangos unrhyw y cwestiynau yn cofio ar gyfer cyfnod, ac yn ddigonod ar gyfer cyfnod periodau arcyf yn cofio ar gyfer cyfnod, ac mae'n gaelio i'n cael ei gaelio'r cyfnod, Ie ddim gwsgawr, celais gwrs, y cyfnoddau o'r rhagleniadau cyfnoddau gy satisfies the Cymru? Ie ddim gwsgawr, ac yn mynd i seithio yn ddymiadwadau ffordd honno ar gyfer poblyniadau, ohyniadau a rathfawr i gyfnoddau gyfnoddau, zwad worlden nhw, ac yn mynd i automated heddiw i Cymru. Ysgolau Indexing Dŵr Cymru hwnnau i gyd gan y cyfnoddau i gyfrifonfa rhagleniadau yn gwybodaeth a gael, felly'r cysylltu chi'n gwneud hyn i'r cyflymus i gydweithio pergynniadau, gwheil iawn i'r wychion hyn ar gyfer ganwethaf rhywunfaeth i gael a yn gараe i'r ddweud o'i ddim yn ambrangogi i ddyn nhw i unrhyw dillonio cymdeilig maes i'r ffordd agol. Roller MacRythgo?  The cost of living crisis is an important issue for public deliberation to help to identify equitable ways to move through this crisis that has public support. At present, we are not in a place to run a short notice citizens assembly on this issue. However, we have set up a people's panel on wellbeing 2022 and beyond. That has met three times so far, and the cost of living crisis has been discussed with panellists. That provides us with an in-depth understanding of people's views on the cost of living crisis and of the current and anticipated impact of crisis on people's lives. I would like to ask the Scottish Government how measures set out in its programme for government in 2022-23 will support Scotland's Covid-19 recovery. Recovery from Covid-19 is a key priority for the Scottish Government, and the 2022-23 programme for government outlines the range of actions that we are taking to support this. It addresses the impacts of the pandemic across our society, economy and health services. It sets out our investment for the next year through the Covid support fund, which assists those living with long-term effects of infection, outlines financial support available for local economies, dealing with the impacts of the pandemic and undertakes to eradicate healthcare rates of over 18 months in most specialities. In terms of pandemic or disease resilience, in the Scottish Parliament's Covid-19 recovery evidence session on 8 September, it was made clear by Caroline Lowe, the director of finance at NHS national services Scotland, that in the event of future pandemic or crisis affecting only Scotland, that this would have to be funded from existing Scottish funding sources. Does the Scottish Government have the fiscal flexibility as it requires to respond to such a crisis? Mr Fairlie will be familiar with the range of powers and responsibilities that the Government has within the parliamentary system. Of course, one of the key limitations is that we do not have the capacity to borrow for resource spending purposes other than for very limited purposes in relation to financial management. The scenario that Mr Fairlie puts to me of an emergence of an issue that requires additional public expenditure within a financial year can really essentially only be supported by the Government by taking resources that are allocated to other areas of expenditure to prioritise dealing with a pandemic. Obviously, if there was to be an event that happened at a United Kingdom level, then the wider workings that we saw during the Covid pandemic would be relevant and would be applied. Obviously, the Government would co-operate on such a basis in any future scenario. One sector that needs help to recover from the pressures of Covid is the social housing sector. The Scottish Government's programme for government is proposing a bill to freeze rents, although we have not yet seen that bill and we are not to see it, I believe, until shortly before we are due to debate it on Tuesday. This week, I received a letter from the Kingdom Housing Association in my region expressing serious concerns about a rent freeze. It says that the rent freeze in the social sector is a serious threat to the Scottish Government's targets on decarbonisation and affordable housing. It will lead to a reduction in the provision of new homes, the deferral of planned maintenance works and a potential reduction in service delivery standards to tenants. How does the Scottish Government respond to the very serious concerns from social housing providers? Although it is not directly relevant, Deputy Presiding Officer, I should remind the chamber of my register of interests in relation to private rented property. The issue that Mr Fraser raises on behalf of the Kingdom Housing Association, those are all legitimate questions that the Parliament will have to consider when it considers the legislation, so it would be premature for me to give a specific response until the provisions are published, and there will be adequate opportunity, which has been made available for Parliament to consider the legislation. The other point is that the letter that Mr Fraser has quoted from essentially highlights the fact that, in this cost of living crisis, there are really difficult choices to be made. I suspect that we will have a lot of talk about that in the course of the questions that I respond to this afternoon. There are very difficult choices that come about from the fact that inflation is putting enormous pressure on our budgets. There are cost of living challenges that individual householders face, and the Government has taken the step that we need to protect people from rent increases for a limited period, given the fact that that will exacerbate the effects of the cost of living. Within all of that, we will engage constructively with the social housing sector, but the idea that we can navigate our way through this cost of living crisis without difficult decisions having to be confronted, I have been completely open with Parliament about the difficulties. I gave a statement here three weeks ago on the difficulties in our budget and we will have more of those issues to wrestle with in the period to come. To ask the Scottish Government what anticipates the impact will be on its Covid recovery strategy of the reduction to the Covid recovery budget. Announced on 7 September as part of the emergency budget review. The current fiscal environment presents real and significant pressures. Within the constraints of a fixed budget and limited powers, the Scottish Government is managing the nation's finances while maximising the support that is available to those most affected by the pandemic and the on-going cost crisis. The emergency budget review is on-going, and that will assess all opportunities to redirect additional resources to those most in need, as well as to reduce the burdens on businesses, stimulate the economy and support our wider recovery from the pandemic. Any changes to budgets that result from this will be formally set out to Parliament in the standard budget revision process. I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer. With the reduction in the budget, can the cabinet secretary give an update on ventilation in classrooms? Have the classroom doors been cut along with the budget? I think, frankly, that is a question that trivialises the difficulties that we face. I think that it just demonstrates where the Conservative Party is just now. Today, of all days, as the public finances of the United Kingdom face absolute peril, Douglas Lumsden believes that he should use parliamentary time in a flippant fashion as that. He tells us that Mr Kerr has just been on his feet complaining about the quality of answers, while I am on my feet complaining about the quality of the questions from Mr Lumsden, who needs to up his game. Is the reality not that he needs to tell Douglas Lumsden that the problem here with the pressure on Covid recovery and all other budgets is because we have a crazy UK Westminster Government which is cutting taxes, allowing the pound to collapse and pushing up energy, imported costs and everything else? I agree unreservedly with John Mason's analysis of the current situation and his characterisation of the United Kingdom Government's behaviour as crazy because I have never... If the United Kingdom Government brought forward a fiscal event on Friday, it has recklessly undermined confidence in the public finances, recklessly undermined confidence in the economy and it has done absolutely nothing to alleviate the suffering of individuals in our society, many of whom will be Mr Mason's constituents. I think that what the United Kingdom Government needs to do is to concentrate on how it stabilises the public finances, removes the ridiculous budget provisions that they put in place on Friday and address the serious issue that I have put to them, which is that our budget is now worth £1.7 billion less than it was when we set it because of raging inflation in our economy. That is the real challenge that we face. Earlier this month, the Scottish Government wrote to integrated joint boards informing them that they would have to return unspent Covid reserves. That is an extraordinary decision given that this deadly virus has not gone away and clinicians are warning of a really challenging period ahead for the NHS and social care. Can the minister explain why he is raiding the coffers of IJBs at the very time that they need support to deliver vital health and social care services? Would he agree with me that if this was the UK Government clawing back money from Scotland, he would be enraged and rightly so? The reason why this has got to be done is that we have got to use all means available to us to support public servants, many of whom work for integrated joint boards to deliver healthcare in our society through increased pay deals to deal with the consequences of inflation. If the UK Government is not going to expand the size of the resources available to us—I do not need to explain to Jackie Baillie, but I will just for completeness—the Government cannot borrow for resource purposes. We cannot change the tax rates during the financial year, so unless the UK Government changes the spending envelope, there are no extra resources available to us. I took the opportunity of my conversation with the chief secretary to the Treasury on Friday to press the case for increases in public spending. He was entirely unsympathetic to my appeals for that step, so the Government has got to look at the various ways in which we can utilise resources to afford increased pay claims and other pressures within the financial year when we do not have access to flexibilities. The example that Jackie Baillie cites is one example of the steps that the Government has got to take. To ask the Scottish Government how the cost of living crisis is impacting its Covid recovery strategy. The Covid recovery strategy commits us to actions supporting financial security for low-income households. The cost of living crisis represents an unprecedented challenge that is impacting people across Scotland, and we are providing significant additional support to help mitigate that. By March, we will have invested almost £3 billion in a range of measures for households, supporting energy bills, childcare, health and travel, as well as social security payments. In our programme for government, we also announced several further responses to maximise support for those in need, including a new winter heating payment, doubling of our fuel and security fund of £20 million, £5 million additional funding for discretionary housing payments and further action to reduce the cost of the school day for families. I thank the Deputy First Minister for that answer. Last week, I met Matthew Cole, head of the Fuel Bank Foundation, an organisation mainly providing help for customers and prepayment metres, who are at real risk of having their energy supply cut off. Given that the Tory UK Government has decided to prioritise the wealthy at the expense of ordinary families, what powers does the Scottish Government need in order to realise Scotland's energy potential and to ensure that nobody has their lights and heating cut off when they don't have the cash to top up on fuel? The type of powers and responsibilities would be the powers to reform the energy market and the powers to apply a windfall tax to energy companies who are going to profit enormously from the rising energy costs. Under the current United Kingdom Government proposals, the burden of paying for all of that support will be added to the borrowing stock and the borrowing obligations of future generations. Those are some of the examples of how wider powers for the Scottish Parliament will make a difference in that respect. Scotland's economy recovers from the Covid crisis. What can the cabinet secretary say to people that are facing a tough winter of skyrocketing energy costs, especially those like many of my constituents who are reliant on heating oil for which there is no cap? I have every sympathy with the point that is raised by Beatrice Wishart. Indeed, I had the pleasure of meeting with the leader of Shetland Islands Council, Councillor Emma McDonald, just the other week there, just after she had published the analysis of the expected increases in costs for people in Shetland and also in the Orklands, if I might add, which will be at an even greater level because of temperature and limited daylight over the winter period. I have every sympathy with the issues that are raised and I assure her that we will continue to make representations to the United Kingdom Government to try to provide direct intervention. If there are other ways in which we can try to offer support through some of the financial schemes that the Scottish Government has available, I will ensure that the information is available to Beatrice Wishart's constituents in order that they may access such funds. To ask the Scottish Government what funding it has provided to Dundee to support the city's recovery from the pandemic. The Covid recovery strategy brings together over 70 actions that will support people across Scotland by increasing the financial security for low-income households, by enhancing the wellbeing of children and young people, and by creating good-green jobs and fair work. The strategy also focuses on renewing public services to ensure that they meet the specific needs of people and communities. For example, in Dundee, our best start-break futures delivery plan will help to tackle direct child poverty is testing holistic support to help parents access work and increase their incomes. Furthermore, Dundee City Council will receive £353.4 million to fund local services equating to an extra £27.8 million compared to the last financial year. That is in addition to Covid-19 funding of £50 million to the local government settlement over and above regular grant payments. I thank the Deputy First Minister for his response and welcome the additional funding that has enabled the city's S&P council to implement an £800,000 fuel well scheme providing targeted support with energy bills of £400,000 food for insecurity, £200,000 for money and energy advice and £500,000 for business recovery. Does the cabinet secretary agree that, although those schemes are very welcome and are providing crucial support for my constituents, it is unfortunate that the lack of sufficient actions from the Westminster Government on areas such as those that are reserved responsibilities or indeed in pursuing deliberately damaging policies has required the Scottish Government and Dundee's S&P council to step in to support local people? I welcome the steps that are being taken by the city council administration in Dundee to support people who are facing challenges at this time. I agree very much with Mr Fitzpatrick that those interventions will assist individuals. I regret the fact that they are necessary because of the lack of action of the United Kingdom Government, but it demonstrates the benefit of Dundee City Council acting on behalf of the people of Dundee as I would expect them to do so. The money allocated to councils through the local authority Covid economic recovery fund is welcome. It does little to reverse the damage to local services caused by a decade of cuts. The Scottish Government has cut real-term cumulative funding for councils by 4.2 per cent. We have heard that they are clawing back funding from the IJBs. Will the minister provide assurance that councils will be able to use all funding allocated to them through the economic recovery fund, without fear of that being clawed back to— Cabinet Secretary? In my answer to Mr Fitzpatrick, I pointed out that Dundee City Council had received £27.8 million more in funding from the Government compared to 2021-22, which is in addition to the £50 million of Covid funding, 19 funding through the local government settlement. The Government has been providing really substantial support to local government. Of course, in recent weeks, we have provided additional in-year support to enable the local government pay deal to be settled, and that has obviously required new additional resources to be made available to local governments. The Government is doing its level best by local authorities in Scotland. Bill Kidd Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. To ask the Scottish Government what discussions have taken place with ministers across government regarding the impact of the UK Government's fiscal statement on Scotland's Covid recovery strategy. Since the Covid recovery strategy was published, and particularly in recent months, rising inflation, the worsening cost of living crisis and the inaction by the UK Government has made it even more critical for the Scottish ministers to focus our efforts on supporting those who are most in need. We are undertaking an emergency budget review to assess any and all opportunities to redirect additional resources to those who are most in need, to reduce the burdens on businesses and to stimulate the Scottish economy. Bill Kidd Thank you very much, Deputy First Minister. The mini-budget, announced by Quasiquarting, prioritises lining the pockets of the rich through cutting corporation tax and cutting the 45 per cent tax rate paid by the wealthiest individuals in the UK. Does the Deputy First Minister agree that we need to focus on rebuilding our economy post-Covid Brexit and in the context of international uncertainty, rather than take unnecessary risks that are not going to protect people on low to average incomes? I set out yesterday to Parliament the very significant concerns that the Scottish Government has about the measures announced by the Chancellor on Friday. I think that the concerns that were set out to Parliament yesterday by ministers have been amplified by the intervention of the international monetary fund yesterday and the commentary from ratings agencies and the intervention today of the Bank of England demonstrating that the announcements made on Friday were foolish. They were very damaging and they are causing significant financial volatility for the United Kingdom and that will have an effect on householders and it will have an effect on the public finances into the bargain. 7. Jamie Halcro Johnston To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how the work of the Covid business resilience and support directorate is supporting its Covid recovery strategy. Presiding Officer, the Covid recovery strategy is focused on reducing systemic inequalities and includes commitments to support the creation of good green jobs and fair work in Scotland. Businesses play an important role in this aspect of recovery and the Scottish Government has prioritised support for business. For example, the Scottish Government launched the £80 million local authority Covid economic recovery fund in February 2022. It empowered local authorities to consider how best to support local businesses, communities and households with the focus on targeting support to maximise economic recovery in their areas. All of those steps have been assisted by the work delivered by the Covid business resilience and support directorate. 7. Jamie Halcro Johnston Thank you. The Audit Scotland noted in June that it had taken too long to establish internal governance arrangements within the Scottish Government, noting that the business resilience and support directorate took until March 2021, almost a year after the start of the pandemic to be formed. All the while, there were significant delays in getting some of the support out to businesses and there remains concerns about significant funds allocated for Covid support remaining unspent. As the Cabinet Secretary outlined, what lessons have been learned from its response and what action has been taken to ensure that any underspend in budget is targeted to continue to support Scottish businesses. 8. Michael Matheson There are a number of interesting points in here. The Government acted with great urgency and speed to try to distribute funding support to businesses because we recognised in Covid the gravity of the crisis that was faced. I have read the Audit Scotland report on the funding, which is, on the one hand, complementary about how swiftly the Government moved. That is certainly the feedback that I have had from many businesses in my constituency who have told me that they would not be in business today had the Government not acted so quickly and then contrasted by the understandable demand for there to be proper governance around these arrangements. There is a challenge, which I think we have to be open about, about the necessity to act with speed to save businesses and the necessity to have in place absolutely every check and balance that we would require to have. In the assessment by Audit Scotland about any inappropriateness about the finances distributed in Covid business support, essentially it was of a minimal level. That cannot be said for all funding across the United Kingdom and there is huge concerns in the Public Audit Committee, the Public Accounts Committee and the House of Commons about these issues in the Westminster Government. I think that there is a difficult balance to be struck there, but I assure Mr Halcro Johnston that the Government has approached the issue with the imperative of supporting businesses when they needed that assistance and to do it as quickly as possible. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its plans to consult further on electoral reform in Scotland. Work has been under way over the summer to prepare a public consultation and my officials and I have had helpful initial discussions with several interested stakeholders. Can I thank minister for that very welcome news? Greens have campaigned for a long time for a truly residence-based franchise in Scotland where everybody who lives here has the right to vote and stand in elections, including 16-year-olds. This new consultation will hopefully go some way to fixing the inequalities in our electoral franchise in relation to candidacy rights, although I want to see it go further with an extension of voting rights to people seeking asylum. Can the minister confirm how the consultation will encourage particularly disenfranchised communities to respond? I can say to the member that the consultation paper will be published by the end of this year. I have already met a number of key stakeholders in relation to possible consultation topics and I plan to continue that approach. I would be happy to consider any suggestions from the member and discuss things further in some of the issues that he has already mentioned or any other ideas that others in the chamber may have for this whole process. Two brief supplementaries for Stephen Kerr. Doesn't the minister agree that the current modified Da Haunt system that we are using disproportionately rewards parties that don't stand candidates in constituencies? Shouldn't parties, with candidates on the regional list ranking, have to stand candidates in constituencies for the system to be anything like fair and reasonable, rather than parties gaming the system? I think that, as always, Mr Kerr is quite entertaining and has plenty of ideas on this issue. I would say that possibly today is not the time to start talking about rewriting the Scotland Act at this stage, but possibly it is a discussion for us all to have in the future. I will spare the minister my full slideshow from my recent visit to observe the Swedish elections, but, since we are on the subject of gaming, would he look at the Swedish system, which is the ultra-proportional open-list system with 28 regions with a national rebalance in mechanism as a means to avoid this gaming of the electoral system in Scotland? Not to commit myself to anything at this stage, Mr Rennie. I am quite willing to discuss with you that said plan and have a look at it, and we could possibly take it from there. Delphically done. That ends portfolio questions on Covid recovery. We now move to the second portfolio, which is finance in the economy. Again, should members wish to ask a supplementary question, I encourage them to press the request-to-speak buttons. During the relevant question, I call question number one, Paul MacLennan. To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has undertaken of the cumulative impact on business of the pressures of a weak currency, high inflation, rising energy costs and Brexit. The impacts of inflation are affecting businesses across Scotland, exacerbated by the UK Government's recent announcements such as seeing the pound fall to record lows and the additional uncertainty that we have seen today. This comes on top of Brexit. In the latest business insights and conditions survey, 46 per cent of businesses experiencing exporting challenges said the end of the EU transition period was the main cause. The Scottish Government has engaged extensively with business and support their calls on the UK Government for action. However, last week's mini-budget gives tax cuts for the rich and little for households and businesses struggling to pay bills. Paul MacLennan. Thank you. We have had six chancellers since 2014. The pound was £1.64 in 2014. It is now $1.6 and probably falling. Annual inflation was 2.3 per cent. It is now 9.9 per cent with forecasts of 22 per cent. The UK was in the euro in 2014. Since leaving the EU, Scottish exports have decreased by 14 per cent. The energy price cap in 2019 was £1100. It is now £2,500. Add in the IMF and credit agency's comments today. Does the cabinet secretary agree with me that the so-called stability of the UK economy, often quoted by unionist politicians, is no longer credible in any way and is damaging our businesses? We are experiencing an acute period of volatility and uncertainty, started by Brexit and exacerbated by the crisis around Covid, the war in Ukraine and now the recklessness of the new Conservative Government. The idea that, somehow, the UK can be described as a stable economy in the light of all that chaos and damage that has been done to business is a fallacy of the past. To brief supplementaries, first, Michelle Thompson. The Bank of England can only hope that its emergency and unlimited guilt-buying operation will be a temporary measure in the defences required against an incompetent Tory budget, described by the former NPC member, Professor Blanchfair, who stated that quasi-quartine has crashed the markets. I have never seen such raging incompetence ever. Does the cabinet secretary agree that the Scottish people can simply no longer afford to pay the price of being attached to this failing UK state and that the UK Government must not impose swinging cuts to Scotland's budget? There are three points that I would make there. The first is that one of the consequences of the Chancellor's recklessness on Friday is the risk of very significant reductions in public expenditure to try to restore market confidence. That will be a disaster for Scotland. Secondly, the cost of remaining part of the United Kingdom is now acute for people in Scotland when we see the damage of Brexit and this fiscal mismanagement. Thirdly, I am struck at the ridiculousness of the Conservative party demanding that I replicate the changes that were made by the Chancellor on Friday when we look at the chaos that has been inflicted on all of us as a consequence. What can the Scottish Government say to business in island areas who already face higher costs in their mainland counterparts and fear for the very viability of their businesses as economic confidence falls and overheads and inflation continue to rise? One of the issues that I am most concerned about is the actual scale of energy price rises, even with some of the tempering measures that are now in place for entirely profitable and sustainable businesses. If I give Bruce Swisher an example, which I shared openly, of a farmer in my constituency who explained to me that his energy costs are currently £50,000 a year and he was being quoted £250,000. A difference of £200,000 is just impossible for that farming venture to find. What would happen is that an individual who is producing food for our domestic market would face the potential of not being able to continue to do so. Bruce Swisher will have examples like that in her constituency. We have to recognise the enormity of the risk that is faced and the scale of intervention has to be acute to ensure that perfectly viable businesses in every other normal circumstance should be able to be assisted through this difficulty, as we did in Covid, but we should do that not by saddling future generations with the level of borrowing that is proposed by the United Kingdom Government. I need to alert the chamber that we are tight for time across the afternoon, so I will have to encourage and succinct our questions and also succinct our answers, ministers. Question 2, orgy Nicolle. To ask the Scottish Government how the national planning framework for will be equipped to attract investment to North East Scotland. NPF4 will set out clear national policy and spatial priorities for every area, including when our feast. Once adopted, NPF4 will form part of the statutory development plan reviewed every 10 years and will be central to planning decisions making locally. The increase in local application combined with a long-term vision for Scotland in 2045 means that NPF4 will give greater clarity and confidence to people, communities and investors, for example in actively planning and delivering the just transition from oil and gas to a net zero future for the North East. NPF4 will be closely aligned with our Government strategies and be accompanied by a delivery programme to support better alignment and co-ordination of delivery partners and their funding sources. It is for all stakeholders and sectors to help to deliver NPF4. Research by Scottish Renewable shows that the average planning decision for renewable energy can take around 772 days from submission, which is not compatible with meeting net zero by 2045. Renewable energy is key to tackling the climate emergency, securing Scotland's energy supply and dealing with the cost of living crisis. Can the minister outline how that will be delivered, given the timescales referred to above? We recognise the critical role of planning in helping to meet our net zero targets. Our package of planning reforms is focused on delivering clear and quicker decisions, giving greater confidence and predictability to those who are planning to develop. NPF4 will signal a turning point for planning, and we have been clear that responding to global climate emergency and a nature crisis will be central to that, including by actively enabling appropriately located renewable energy developments. I am also working with a high-level group on planning performance to drive forward a programme to enhance resources and skills. We have recently increased planning fees to enable additional resources for planning services, and we are currently preparing to recruit Scotland's first national planning improvement co-ordinator to support good practice amongst authorities and users of the planning system. A number of supplementaries are here, but I would impress upon both the questioners and the minister that everything needs to be brief from this point on. Maggie Chapman, first of all. The minister will be acutely aware of the importance of genuine community engagement for local and regional economic development. Indeed, this is a vital part of the Scottish Government's commitment to a just transition. Without listening to local voices, economic development cannot be just. How can we ensure that decisions around inward investment to the north-east of Scotland do not ride roughshod of the wishes and needs of local communities? Rightly, we want to be involved and we want them to be involved in the decisions that shape the places that they love, work and play. Effective public engagement can lead to better plans, decisions and more satisfactory outcomes. Our planning system includes statutory and non-statutory opportunities for engagement, including in the preparation of local development plans that set out the future use of land in the area and the new place plans introduced by the 2019 planning act. Will MPF4 provide greater flexibility for local authorities so that community focus approach to planning can be made, for example, to tackle vacant and derelict buildings, such as the interfloor factory in Dumfries, which I now have a petition for for the council to take action? The member will appreciate the comment on specific cases, but there are policies in draft MPF4 on vacant and derelict land, which we are carefully considering. There is the consultation that we undertook in new style LDPs. New style LDP regulations will be laid shortly after the new MPF4 comes into effect. Last month, the Bonacord Centre in Aberdeen plunged into administration sparking concerns about its future. Business rates are cooling our high streets, so how will MPF4 not so much attract new investment but allow us to keep what we have? The draft MPF4 recognises that we need to preserve and reuse existing assets, both from net zero ambitions but also recognising the importance in place and having thriving centres and their specific policies on centres within draft MPF4. We will bring back a finalised MPF4 to Parliament later in the autumn. 3. Brian Whittle To ask the Scottish Government how many projects and what total value of loans the Scottish National Investment Bank has supported. The bank has made loan commitments of £103 million and made funding equity investments of £155 million across 20 companies and projects. Those investments have seen £482 million of co-investment of third party capital. The investments have supported all three of the bank's missions in net zero place and innovation in people. 3. Brian Whittle I thank the cabinet minister for that reply, but businesses are reporting to me that, especially businesses in the green economy and the renewable sector that accessing potential funding from SNP is problematic, is wrapped in red tape, they seem to look for reasons not to invest and are risk averse. Surely investing in innovation within the renewable sector is what SNP is for, so can I ask the cabinet secretary to agree to review the way in which SNP lends money and ensure that Scotland does not miss out on the significant opportunities that the renewable sector brings to our economy? I am very happy to engage in this question because one of the priorities of the Scottish National Investment Bank is to lend to sustainable projects with growth potential in the net zero environment. I have a list of projects that have been supported to assist that objective. If there are particular examples that Mr Whittle is concerned about, I will happily look at them and explore them with the Scottish National Investment Bank. Over time, we will look at the performance of the bank and determine if there are any obstacles, but I can assure Mr Whittle and the chamber that the bank is keen to lend to projects in these key areas. To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the Scottish Retail Consortium's recommendation to accelerate the process of lowering the higher property rate. Decisions on non-domestic rates, including the poundage and any reliefs or supplements, are considered in the context of the Scottish budget and in line with other Government priorities. Scottish budget 2022-23 delivers the lowest poundage in the UK for the fourth year in a row, ensuring that over 95 per cent of non-domestic properties continue to be liable for a lower property tax rate than anywhere else in the UK. I did not quite hear an answer to what assessment it has made of the SRC's calls, but, back in 2017, the Barclay review, commissioned by the Scottish Government, called for the large business supplement to be reduced in order to make Scotland the best place to do business in the UK. Does the minister agree with the SRC specifically that retaining a higher rate in Scotland is not a competitive approach, and will they look again at the policy in its forthcoming budget? I am very grateful to the SRC for its submissions. The point that I was making to the member in my original answer is that it would be premature of me to set out what the non-domestic rates policy will be ahead of the budget being delivered later this year. Of course, we very much welcome the submission from the SRC and will, of course, give careful consideration to it. To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the findings of the survey of participants in 4-day week globals pilot. The Scottish Government is taking a keen interest in the trial and, at the halfway point, indicative results demonstrate positive experiences for workers and employers. There is no doubt that a 4-day working week could bring environmental, health, wellbeing and productivity benefits, which is why ministers are committed to exploring the benefits further. Indeed, the programme for government restated our commitment to support research and advice to improve workplace productivity and wellbeing, including on the delivery of a 4-day working week pilot. We will bring forward specific proposals soon. A 4-day working week could save workers thousands of pounds in both childcare and commuting costs. The Labour MP Peter Dowd has introduced a 4-day working week bill to Westminster. Will the Scottish Government publicly back this bill? Minister. Thank you very much to the member for the question. I like the member herself. I am a very keen supporter of the 4-day working week, and I am really enthusiastic about the work that the Scottish Government is doing in this area. For example, at a new centre for workplace transformation, which will complement the existing pilot trials under way, for example, by analysing where there may be gaps in the existing literature or analysis to explore the possibilities for an alternative working practice that delivers more inclusive balance between work and personal lives. My direct declaration of interest records my attendance at the 4-day week conference in Valencia in May, and I shared insights with ministers on it. Does the minister agree that, as productivity is a persistent challenge for Scotland and the UK, and as productivity gains are proving to be a key benefit of 4-day week pilots, as has been recruitment and retention of talented and valuable staff important in a tight labour market, can the minister reiterate their commitment to a pilot? As the Portuguese Government has also just announced that it will conduct 4-day week pilots that are keen to learn from Scotland's work, will the Scottish Government also commit to engage with other Governments on this agenda? Ministers remain committed to exploring the benefits of a 4-day working week, which is why the 2022-23 programme for government includes a commitment to undertake research and advice to improve workplace productivity and wellbeing, including on the delivery of a 4-day working week pilot. Our work will be informed by experience drawn from similar projects in other countries and elsewhere in the UK. Officials have already made plans to meet with the Valencian and Portuguese Governments next month. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met with Sanjif Gupta. The Minister for Business, Trade, Tourism and Enterprise last met with Mr Gupta on 15 August 2022. I am very grateful to the cabinet secretary for that reply. That auditors have resigned. There is an investigation by the serious fraud office and the promised 2,000 jobs are nowhere to be seen. Its owners have warned that the plant may in fact shut. Does the Government regret ignoring warnings from its own economic advisers about doing deals with the GFG alliance, the owners of the Lochaber smelter and the Lanarkshire steel mills? The Government's intentions were clear. We were taking the steps that we were taking to try to protect employment. There are families today who are employed in the DL's steelworks and at the Lochaber smelter, who would not be employed today if the Government had not helped in the way that we helped. We are trying to ensure that we support employment within our society. There are commitments that GFG has got to make to the Government. They are being delivered in relation to the payments that are required as part of the financial arrangements that are in place and the Government will continue to monitor those issues and respond to any issues that are raised in Parliament. Can I ask the cabinet secretary whether the Scottish Government has had a contact with the serious fraud office regarding their investigation into GFG's activities? I do not think that I am at liberty to respond in detail to that question, but I will take advice on that question and, if I am, I will respond further in writing to Mr Halcro Johnston. Thank you. With everything that has happened recently, there is a clear risk that GFG and Gupta's financial empire will collapse. What is the total liability to the public purse if that were to come to pass? That is a difficult factor to calculate, given the various scenarios that could take place. I assure Mr Johnston that the Government has in place arrangements that ensure that all the payments that are required to the Government are up-to-date, and the asset value of the Lochaber venture is in excess of any liability that could be created in the scenario on that individual site that Mr Johnston raises with me today. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. To ask the Scottish Government how it will address any concerns over cost pressures affecting the retail sector. As I outlined in our programme for government, we will work with the business community to identify further measures that can assist in addressing increased costs and economic disruption. However, as the member will appreciate, the powers and resources needed to tackle this emergency on the scale required access to borrowing, welfare, vat on fuel, taxation that one of the windfall profits, regulation of the energy market are all lying with the UK Government. We have continually urged the UK Government to use all the powers and fiscal headroom at its disposal, and we will continue to do everything within our resources and powers to help those most affected. We have been calling for the UK Government to introduce a business energy cap for some time, a welcome, but it has now done so. Without substantial reform to the energy market, there is a real risk that this temporary measure will prove to be inadequate. Let's look at what the Scottish Government could do. Potentially thousands of businesses face closure next year. That's the warning from the Scottish Grocer's Federation over their proposed deposit return handling fees, which they warn won't cover retailer costs. Does the minister agree that it is worth at least a review now, a year ahead of the launch, to ensure retailers will not face serious losses? I'm very much looking forward to speaking at the Scottish Grocer's Federation conference next week and what it says is that we are committed to the launch of DRS next year. This is an industrial-led scheme, but we have been and we will continue to engage with business, including the retail sector. The retail sector is facing substantial pressures as a result of the cost of living, not to mention Brexit. Can the minister provide any further information regarding the Scottish Government's latest engagement with the sector, regarding meeting current challenges and building resilience for the future? We can have regular engagement with the retail sector and wider business community. I co-chaired the first meeting of the newly inaugurated retail industry leadership group on August 25. We discussed a variety of issues, including the implementation of our retail strategy, particularly the priority of developing a fair work agreement and commencing a skills audit, which are both identified as key priorities in the strategy. The next meeting of the group will be in early November, and I'm happy to keep the chamber updated on its progress. Thank you very much, minister. That concludes portfolio questions. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next item of business.