Well, welcome back again, Joe Gibson and Stephen O'Garland. How are you doing lads? How's it going, Paul? It's going good. Come here. Two piece now, and you're called the Howlin' Highlands. The Howlin' Highlands. Was there a lot of thought went into that, or where did that? Well, there was at one time, it was a two piece with myself and Elaine Boyle, you know. And then, basically, myself and Stephen were like, the way things are going and the music's hopping in Ireland at the minute and the folk's very much in vogue, as you can see from the Danny Byrne band there and all the many other iterations. So, as you know, I have many other bands and stuff as well and playing flat out. So, we decided to take it on and really lean into what we really do, what we're born and bred doing. So, Stephen and I let you tell about himself, but he's a dairy trad player. And I'm a Donny Galtrad player by trade, and we grew up through the traditional scene and the folk scene, so we're both of the same wavelength that way. Excellent. But we needed a name to describe the absolute mess. And we wanted particularly something that was northern, and as you know, the Howlin' Highlands is a pretty... Jimmy didn't know what was going on, he thought I was selling scallions, you know. No, I got it right away. I know, you did. I said, because you just didn't bat an eyelid when he said the Howlin' Highlands, so that makes sense. That's a good sensible name there. Well, obviously we were kind of a powerful, you know, trad and folk group, but we wanted something to tell the audience that they'd be a bit of a crack in, but no. You know, it's important because you need a frontman, and I'm not taking it away from yourself, Stephen, I don't mean it this way, but you need someone in all these bands, you can't have the collective band and not somebody stand out as a book-eget, you know what I mean? And you fall into that category quite easy. It's funny, as you mentioned that, because another reason why myself and Stephen go quite well is when I'm busy or tuning the guitar, stepping away, Stephen's never shy of stepping up to the mic and being that other book-eget. That's good, that's good. Stephen, that's your fourth time up here with us, is it? I've been up a few times, have you? Well, memory must be going, hey. It was a good few years ago, right? Trust me, it is. When we were releasing the EO Carlin family album, I came up, I think, two years after that, and me and my brother and sister came up and played, and I think Joe played Lummi. I remember now, I remember now. So you branced away from that, Stephen? Well, I wouldn't say branced. We grew up playing Lummi Joe as well, you know, like we were in France to get our playing, we were only, what, 16? I was 18, so you may have been a wee bit. I may have been 16 or 17. I grew up playing with Joe Nune from the cult, this isn't all. You know, playing from a young age, you could see. And obviously, Stephen, the music's in the blood, like... Oh, yeah, we were playing, we came up playing music all our life, you know. Tried music. And family, from your mother and father and stuff, or what? My dad plays a wee bit of the banjo. It's not an ancestry or anything. No, it didn't come through the family or anything. My dad just got interested. They always loved Irish music, particularly folk music. Look, Kelly, Dubliners. I was just in the banjo and the oldest brother poked up his hand-muscle, quickly went on to the pipes, Kearn learned to fiddle, Kearn learned to flute, I learned to accordion. We just picked a different instrument. You're saying that like you're the youngest in the family, aren't you? I know, trying to knock myself down a few steps there. Very good. Very good. Well, I'll tell you what we'll do. It's all good having a howling and howling name, but we want to hear a bit of howling and music. And then we'll chat more there. Instead of starting with that, we'll go with the... We've actually recorded a half-dozen tunes. We've just rocked into the studio. We've knocked it a few... Are these your own tunes? No, what we're doing is we're trying to put our own spin on old tunes. Now, we have our own tunes with us as well tonight, but given what we want to showcase here tonight is that side. We go with an old classic called Fiddler's Green. Oh, brilliant. As I say, we have a good few songs recorded, and they'll be released one after another over the next coming weeks. As singles? As singles. We're going to build up to have an album, but we're going to get the best out of the album, so to speak, and release it one at a time. This is our version of Fiddler's Green. Ready? Two, three, hop!  That's part of the repertoire now, I've been playing it a wee while that way, and it just was one of the first songs we went to just to joke yes, the hop and the energy People looking to get in touch Where can they get you through? Well, to start off, you can either contact us directly, just search Joe Gibson or Stephen O'Carrillan, we do have a Facebook page the minute, Howlin' Highlands I'll be trying to get the Instagram and the TikToks all rockin', but we're brand new as it were, but just keep an eye out for the Howlin' Highlands, or Howlin' Highlands, and you'll start to be not the scene Stay in as a two-piece, or would you be expanding? We have a management team that's come on board to sort a lot of this stuff We're starting out as a two-piece To me, it's easier It's easier to travel, it's easier to play and we make a whale racket between stumps and loops and fiddles and all that track Did we change that then? No, we won't be changing it for a while but it should be going to doing more shows we'll want to fall behind us I have the good old band there ready to rock, rock at any given point It says here from Sheamus, Stevie Stevie O, a Dairy Legend Tommy Conway, I don't know if you ever tell him What's his name again? Tommy Conway What's he doing again? Tommy said, you're sounding good lads, Trudy Nadonal, hello to you Trudy, hello to my old buddy, sounding great Horry Up with the album Horry Up with the album is right We're with Tommy again this week Tommy makes up part of the management crew that's going to be working with us We're looking forward to getting stuck in We have a wee secret track that he's a cool album on so it'll be myself, Stephen and Tommy but that'll be out very soon as well If people want to go along and hear you At the moment, nowhere really We're just working on the repertoire You can watch us grow on Instagram and socials So you're basically crawling before you walk, kind of thing We're setting up all the background stuff first so we're getting our sound nailed down and doing the recording Obviously, Stephen's busy with his own projects I have my own band and all that stuff still goes on So this is a passion project so we're actually just our plan to start off is to just travel around just like Jimmy and Paul around on Igol to travel around to the local locations and stuff You'll do well with that We've just seen how well It's like the answer we've been We're putting you well Let me tell you Ah, no, it's a bit of a crack Stephen, are you yourself are you a folk-time musician? I work in a hospital in McElven I'm actually currently on a career break at the moment as of just a month ago there What's your role up there if you don't mind me asking I'm a pharmacist at Technician in there Oh, very good I work in a cancer unit I work in a chemotherapy Excellent And you took a year out a career break I've taken a career break recently that's to do with things at home It also gives me an opportunity to do an ID I work with that in my music as well Yeah, very good You're probably glad you're a musician Oh, definitely My music was always in the back burner but at least now I can maybe focus on it a wee bit more because we're always right in the way as well Oh, is that right now? We're never getting the music out there where it should be Well, that's good I hope you enjoy this and I hope it goes well for both of you because you're too talented musicians to no point in seeing you're not Any items happen as well or? Well, a couple of weeks ago I was in the UK doing a solo show just and around London Currently, talking to a few people and one person at Denmark pretty much firmed it up like to go over there in September next year but more so you can't really be darling at the minute for the music scene because it's really hoppin' especially in this genre so I think... I've never seen it as... No, as vibrant, especially... Vibrant is right in this award and, you know, you have the likes of the Tumblin' Patties and stuffin' places They really, really are and there's no reason why you can't be doing the same but you're probably quite happy pitting along with it rather than... I'd rather take me time I'm not going out to do dance... We're not really going after a dance hall scene We're going after more... I don't know what you would call it but just at the moment we'll be going for pubs and clubs but ideally to go into more shows where we can showcase what we do and there'll be a dance floor user or not but I like the idea of more folk clubs I like that where people can chat and have a crack and have a pint or whatever or a cup of tea But I know what you're saying and I've always said because... It's critically said the music in the pubs and clubs again it really is but at the same time for an artist who wants to showcase his own music and his own styles for both of you you need that sort of audience that's with you or not and I don't mean to suspectfully but not an audience that's out for the night you can't really showcase your music in that they're here to hear the old hits like aren't they really? No, when you're playing to a crowd that hasn't bought in to see you particularly you do have to play to the crowd and for the crowd but we'll have to do that now but as I say, ideally we'd like to grow into to build up a following where you could have a venue that's almost like a club but particularly a good example of the old folk clubs were playing to see what it came to that's what my target audience would be but it's going to take a long time to build that and build it real I'll take your time and do it right but the good thing is that's the kind of way you are no panic you're killing yourself not at your age now but anyway, listen I'll tell you what I'm going to do I'm going to take an hour break we'll come back with another piece of music what are you going to come back with? I'll tell you what we'll do obviously recently we lost a legend in this town and just the day of the week is such a very emotional day and the artists deal with these things in a different way and I always find comfort in writing about it so I'll probably come back with a song I wrote for Ted oh, we're looking for that first time air in the door in the air listen, come back after this break there is a word a small word of great power we add it to other words to mentor, to scholar to leader to captain and guardian it lives with friend and belongs with comrade and most of all it fits naturally with kin a word that describes a whole world that word is ship be more join the Irish naval service at Navy Darahi Sheridan security now introducing zero wire smart alarm systems zero wire, zero mess and a real peace of mind with a simple press of a button your alarm can be set or on set or download the free app and control it from your phone call us today on<PHONE_NUMBER> and get your alarm from 299 euro stay local, stay safe and protect what you value most with Sheridan security systems weight gain happens for many reasons in your 20s but managing stress is one of the four habits that can help learn more at gov.ie forward slash healthy weight an initiative of the government of Ireland how would you like to go on the holiday of a lifetime? then why not join us for the Highland radio hooly in sunny Saloon spend seven nights in the sun with some of Ireland's top entertainers including Robert Mazzell, Jim Devine Margo, Claudia Buckley and many more with live music all day every day staying in the beautiful four-star Sol Costa Jurata hotel this is a trip not to be missed book now by calling Country Music Tours on<PHONE_NUMBER> or email info at CountryMusicTours.ie we'll see you in sunny Saloon yes welcome back and Joe Gibson and Stephen O'Carroll and this is a forced airplay have you a name on it? it's not really a name on it we'll go with it, we're looking forward to it oh it's on your fingers no longer linger and the jokes that we shared around the musical chair there was a gentle sweetness and honest to goodness and a cunning young smile to spare and I can hear you smile as much less than you gave for everyone setting me straight the phrases you played close your eyes I can hear that you smiled as much less than you gave for everyone as much less than you gave there's a more ghost than that that's beautiful actually really really nice, loved the word the song, well thank you very much I just felt, Ted was a big part of everyone's lives in this town and further afield like and he made no difference between anyone and it was quite a shock to the whole community within a doubt, within a doubt like that day was particularly sad it was a happy day to share with a lot of friends sharing memories and stuff I found myself heading towards the pub for that comfort but I said no I'm going home and when I got home I just grabbed the guitar and just the song kind of just blew out wasn't there a better way of dealing with things? it was much better, much healthier I'll tell you that do you know what I'm saying? he's got a small child of that who don't be coming out with that well done, that's brilliant well done because Stephen and that waltz at the end because I told him I wanted to play this tune and he saw this quite like a tune he wrote and the two just brilliant fell together well done well listen we're going to take a wee abrig could we squeeze on a Norway track? we could did you want to say something about that waltz? just the last few waltz just after Joe's lovely song there was called Piper Kennedy's waltz and it was written for a man, Jim Kennedy from Inver here in Donegal he's playing the Highland bagpipes seven to eight years this year well and he plays in St Nalls pipe band in there so I have good friends with his son who lives in Dere runs a B&B in Dere there she must he's told me many great stories about him playing for five Irish presidents and all sorts so I thought it was funny to write the wee tune from you know that's brilliant and it's his anniversary today Jim and Eileen happy 62nd wedding anniversary today congratulations well done do you know you're talking about stories there Stephen I'm a great person for these stories they shouldn't be allowed to go away they should be held and booked and put on these songs and stuff like that I always believe that definitely we're run out of these characters you're not getting people that are playing for some achievement listen I'll break back after this we're on how would you like to go on the holiday of a lifetime then why not join us for the Highland radio hooly in sunny Saloo spend seven nights in the sun with some of Ireland's top entertainers including Robert Mazzelle, Jim Devine Margot, Claudia Buckley and many more with live music all day every day staying in the beautiful four-star Sol Costa Jurata Hotel this is a trip not to be missed book now by calling Country Music Tours on<PHONE_NUMBER> or email info at countrymusictours.ie we'll see you in sunny Saloo homeowners it's time to unlock incredible savings on your energy bills efficient renewables is here to reduce your energy consumption say goodbye to skyrocketing costs and hello to renewable energy solutions there's no vat on solar panels and the generous grants for both solar panels and heat pumps see these innovative systems in action in our state of the art showroom in Newton Cunningham today contact the efficient renewables on<PHONE_NUMBER> yes welcome back it's almost time for us to wrap up I just want to thank you for your company thanks to the artists in front of me here the Highland Indians and Fiona Kenney thank you very much indeed Mick Flannery good day of Mick on the program and of course Danny Bernband as he micked away home to South Armada he said well thanks for your company thanks to Jimmy Stafford on production and say I'll be back Saturday Jimmy will be back in Thursday night between 8 and 10 was centre stage Michael Christie and the Kings of Cool apologies I just couldn't get the time to get the song in so before we go Joe before we go this two piece was born out of the big band Sailor Bill we had a good few successful gigs there recently and we're delighted to announce that we'll be playing what's that bar in there called it's called Barf Barf 47 Barf 47 so tickets will be going on sale this week for Barf 47 on the 8th of December and we're going for the baller again on the 3rd of February so tickets will be on sale now shortly where can we get them through the box office at the baller gigs all through the box office at the baller and then the one in Derry will be through Eventbrite directly from ourselves so as for that the howl heidens thank you very much indeed listen to me myself Stephen and Joe it's a pleasure as always you know where the doors open Aiden Murphy's on the way next have a good week folks thanks very much Paul singing us out is a wee song called St Brandon's Voids a boat sail at a brandon in the gear of 501 it was a dump on dirty morning in brandon's void he should be gone tired of turning turnips and cutting curly kale he got back from the creamery and hoisted up a sail all the way plowed with a lonely furrow from the north south east and west of all the navigators in brandon was the best when he ran out to holy water he was forced to make a stop he tied up in Long Island put America on the map did you know the tunnel was bumpy a carry man to a tunnel find a slayer in china and japan when he was touched in 17 he began to miss a crack turning to his albatross as he am heading back how is it right or left for her what tactic would take from his head well as he said all the entire population came the town was chock-a-block lovin' the money wouldn't get your nose inside a shop man hauled up their nets and farmers stuffed their hay sure carry people know


Sorry about that. Oh, apparently I was muted. Yes, so there's been various of these cloud operating systems, mostly they're like, for example, the OCaml people have this thing called Mirage, which is absolutely great because it means you can run a completely OCaml system as a VM all by itself. And it's absolutely marvellous if you like OCaml, and if you don't want to write your whole programme in OCaml, then it's not really for you. Some people who have involved in NetBSD have done something much more interesting. What they've done is they've sawn, they call it Rumpkernels, they've sawn the VM system off of NetBSD, and the system called layer, and they've turned NetBSD, the kernel, into a library, which you can link against NetBSD libc, and now you can sort of compile your programme and link it all into a single address space image and run it on various things. They've got a zen thing that you can run the programmes on. They've got one that they call POSIX, which lets you run it as a process, sort of a bit like UML only. It really is a single process, it's got no scheduler, nothing like that. This is quite good, because this means you can take allegedly normal programmes and compile them for this environment. But their build system is a bit bad, and even if their build system wasn't a bit bad, it poses certain problems. Now we get on to our nice Debian world. Here's a nice diagram of some packages. You have some source packages. I've not shown all the build dependencies because there's going to be no room on this slide. We've got some packages. You tend to have some kind of, maybe you get it from Git, maybe you have an upstream tarball, you add some Debian files to it, and you build it and it produces a .deb. That's all very nice. This is what I now need to do. You will notice that I have got zen in this three times, so the zen upstream source code has to be used three times in this build process. We need to build it once in the normal way to generate the actual hypervisor and all the things that people are expecting. That build, at the moment it doesn't, yes? Did you already tell us what's the problem you're trying to solve? Yes. What I'm trying to produce is, I'm trying to build these NetBSD Rumpkernel programmes in Zen, because we want to make, we want to use the Rumpkernel thing that the NetBSD people have done to run parts of the Debian tool stack and its support software in VMs. Do you want to do it in Debian way? Ideally before I bake too much, when I build a system in stone, I'd like some advice on what would be nice for this all to look like. What I've got here is boxes, and the round boxes are packages that mostly already exist, and the square boxes are things that don't have a place to live at the moment. I have a working directory on my computer that contains stuff, but exactly how this should be put into something like a Debian archive is less clear. The ultimate goal is, for example, we've got a thing called Pygrub. Let's take Pygrub because that's a nice easy one. Nice easy one, the top right corner. At the moment, most people using Xen use a thing called Pygrub, which is a sort of half-assed emulation of Grub1, Grub2, Lylos, SysLinux, anything else that anybody decided to put parsing code in it for. It's written in Python. It links to libfshimage, which you may or may not have heard of, and it's a file system driver in user space. This runs in your master control domain, that is your host VM, looks into the guest's file system, finds the kernel according to... It can even display menus and then passes that. It finds the kernel and passes it to the rest of the system for actually booting the guest. This is not ideal because if your file system driver has some kind of bug, then that's a security vulnerability. There are also other reasons why it's kind of not ideal. The console handling of this weird extra process that's not running in a guest is a bit messed up or at least complicated. Now, pvgrub2 is going to solve all these problems sometime in the next decade. But in the meantime, I'd like to do a stopgap solution, which is, well, we'll build Python for NetBSD run kernels and then we can run pygrub as a VM, and we'll grant that VM access to the guest's file system, but it doesn't need any other privilege. It provides the kernel to the tool stack and... Yeah. So... You see I've got this rumps and bibs and tools here. This is a combination of an enormous pile of NetBSD source code, some of which is rump kernel specific, but most of which isn't... It's basically just NetBSD. So you see I've got 64 megabytes of .git directory. I did this du the other day. If you unpack that, it's a third of a gigabyte source tree. You build that against some of the outputs that you get from the ZenBuild system, or at least some of the outputs that you would get from the ZenBuild system if it bothered to ship them.  It's all asynchronous, very confusing.   Weird compiler wrapper script. A spec file. A spec file for GCC. That kind of thing. Not a proper cross build environment. We don't want to rebuild GCC because we're just targeting the native CPU here. But we need a completely different symbol namespace, maybe some different compiler options. Things like that. So then you use that wrapper script to run Python's configure. But of course you can't really I mean, you can't do this in a Python tree that you're also building the normal way because it's a different environment. It's a bit like a cross build. As far as configure is concerned, this is a cross build because the executables that come out of this process are Zen guest images and can't be run as executables. So configure can't run them. So technically then yes it's a cross build. And then of course we need to mix that up with the pieces of pygrub itself that came out of Zen. Now things get even worse with one of our other principle targets which is QMU. QMU is used in Zen systems to emulate a PC. If it's a purely virtualised guest it needs an emulated PC and we use QMU for that like everybody does. If your QMU has a security vulnerability in it then that's a vulnerability in the whole system. At least if you run any HEM guests. We don't like this. So for a long time we've had a thing called, we call it stub domains but basically you run your QMU in a domain of its own. It has privilege to access the glory of the guest. It doesn't have privilege with respect to the whole system. So if the guest has some kind of it has some kind of trickery and it takes over its own QMU then well fine, that QMU can't do anything that the guest couldn't have done itself anyway. So yeah, good luck with that. Great. Unfortunately the version of QMU that we have managed to do this to is a decade old fork. I'm not sure it's even in Debian still. There is since then the upstream QMU community have rushed off and become a hive of activity and they do all sorts of much better cooler things now and it's much less crazy. And now I want to cross build that. In order to cross build a QMU that can do all the hardware servicing for a Zend domain that QMU needs to be linked against a pile of libraries that come out of the Zend tool stack libraries special functions for accessing the memory of other domains and manipulating them in various ways. IPC and inter-domain communication mechanisms and those are all in Zend.Git. But of course we don't want a standard build of Zend.Git. Those libraries if you just build them in the normal way are built for local operating system whereas what we actually want is want them built against this NetBSD thing. So now we're going to have to build Zend.Git again using this weird wrapper script. So you run the weird wrapper script Zend's configure, notices it's cross compiling, you get a subset of the build deliverables out of your build and then you have some.a files which go together with these.a files and some include files and then you can run QMU's configure against the two things together and it's almost like you're setting up a little parallel cross world. Okay so I'm going to stop hand-waving now about this diagram and start hand-waving about what might be done. So that somehow the most official or kind of formal way of doing this would be to say well these NetBSD rump kernels are there very like an architecture you run a configure, you run a make they produce deliverables so we'll call them an architecture so that means you have a rump kernel AMD64 a rump kernel i386 a rump kernel ARM AMD64 and so that's four architectures they'd be partial architectures because only a tiny subset of the archive would be built here we go again and all of this infrastructure with four additional architectures in the archive would exist only for really for the benefit of Zen which is itself just one tiny thing in the Zen Ecos in the whole deviant ecosystem so I don't think that's really a sensible thing to do so another thing I thought was so that's obviously not on if I were to try to do that people would hate me I probably hate myself as well so I'm not going to do that so on the other end of the scale it occurred to me that I could upload I could cause the Zen.Git package to produce a copy of its source code as a source dev and I could probably even persuade the QME people and maybe the python people to do the same thing and then I could have some package that had all of this and a giant nightmare build script and that just you know by hand did all of this stuff and it would be sort of a bit like IA32Libs anytime you wanted to add a new one of these you'd have to go and find the original packages and there might be a whole stack I haven't got as far as compiling python yet I've been working on QMU but I imagine that in order to get python to work there'll be a bunch of libraries I have to do first so I have to go to each of those libraries and persuade them to use one of these source packages and then add them to my giant build world thing yes and you really am I on yes and you really wanted to be in the devian archive all of it well what I want what I want to be in the devian archive is this file because this file right as far as the user is concerned this file is a piece of the infrastructure for the Zen system and it should be used actually this should be used by default you shouldn't be using your host compiled QMU by default you should be using this because it's more secure so all of this infrastructure is just there to produce this deliverable which dumps on the user system in userlibzen never heard of it type place and the tools automatically pick it up and the user is completely oblivious of all of this so that's one reason I want it in the archive but once you start doing this kind of thing the next thing that happen is the user will say oh wow cool does that mean I can write Python scripts and have them run in Zen directly so now they want this Python run image and they want to be able to meld it with their own Python scripts which means that the tools that probably live in here that manage the file system image that this domain runs on also want to be delivered to the user of course those are all BSDFFs so we're going to part of this is I'm sort of taking a whole operating system and saying this whole operating system is just we're going to package it up neatly in a little package with not too many tentacles and barrier in Debian you were first I've got pretty much the same kind of problem with Windows cross compilers so the aim of the Windows cross tool chain is to end up with same as you with your QDM image that ends up in the Debian archive we use the Windows cross compilers to build Windows executables that end up in Debian installer and a bunch of DLLs that end up in Wine Gecko that's used for wine and like you say once you start doing that there are other people who say oh it would be really nice to have all these libraries that we could use with the cross compiler for Windows and then you end up with the same kind of problem asking people to produce source devs but then you get push back from the other Debian maintenance which is perfectly sensible and they say this only makes sense if we add it to the proper Debian architecture and then everything just sort of falls out automatically with configuring and so on because you just get the triplet and it all works but if you don't do that it's a nightmare amount of work with all the source packages that need to be used and you either do it on the side somewhere and then you can't get it in the Debian archive or you do it properly it's tempting to suggest that you could rather than everybody ship source devs you could from the bottom up for each Linux architecture pair for the NetBSD thing that you're trying to produce build a binary package which is labelled architecture MB64 but is in fact contains NetBSD MB64 stuff off in some path that nobody cares about and you could deal with fixing up the paths in your build system that would at least let you get the binary objects into the archive and your top level build could be could just produce QMUDM but at least then you'd be able to have build dependencies for sensible-ish things Right, so what you're suggesting is that Python should be the Python, the real main Python package should be changed to produce these rums in AMD64 libraries and things off in a separate path Something like that in separate binary packages That makes Python build depend on this Yes it does Alternatively you could you don't necessarily have to have everything work the same way you could have a Python Zen separate source package which you occasionally re-sync but have other packages which are less complex and intertwined than Python do those binary packages directly Right, so That means convincing all the maintainers to take all that on Another approach would be the other libraries the other library side that you want to build grumps and biners that would mean convincing their maintainers to take that on The other approach which you've mentioned on the mailing list already would be source build dependencies I commented on source build dependencies at the last DEB Conf and I'm not sure I managed to convince Walter that this was legitimate but given that every package already requires to be able to fetch its own source as part of its build process I don't see why you can't legitimately do up-get source in a packages build stick it somewhere in your builds tree and then do that. You don't need to invent infrastructure for source build dependencies to make this work in the worst case you need to fix a couple of firewalls and build days or something but there's no reason why you can't just suggest having Debian rules call out get source Yes People have some people appear to have a visceral reaction to this but I don't see why it is illegitimate Right and up-get source is obviously quite different from calling up-get install it just fiddles with your current directory state That would certainly make all of this a lot easier You could make a little python's n package that you could generate these little stub packages that would go ah well I'll just get the python source and I'll mess with its build system slightly put my weird compiler on the path and then I'll just build it it'll all be fine You would want to make sure that you're getting the versions you expect or something but you might need sanity checks on all sorts of things but it doesn't seem fundamentally very difficult Right I'm going to put in like a build using then am I Yes That matches a build using semantics precisely This is a novel and radical suggestion Thank you minister I'm very surprised to find you proposing it because the idea that the package build should go off and fetch stuff from somewhere Traditionally we've done that in places like sbuild and not in the rules file and it's not declarative either It is indeed not I'm certainly more comfortable with other things like I think things like partial architectures are a much more elegant approach to this a ton more infrastructures to stand up Right So I'm suggesting this not as a particularly elegant thing but as something that as far as I can see should work today without having to build up a load of stuff I guess if I do do that then having deployed it it will be very easy to persuade people that should be some better infrastructure for source package dependencies This was true of IA32 Libs too and look how long that took but yes It might be hard to get it through you now Do we have anybody from the FTP team here Are they listening to the stream? Right well maybe we should do that So yes So we've talked about partial architectures a lot over the years but nobody's ever really got very far with them at least not in Debian Archive Is the men blocker simply working out how we do a build D that doesn't actually try to build everything as is usual How do you mean deep because it has a windows architecture element doesn't it somewhere I've seen it in triplet table I'm sure that everything would be a cross build The main blocker for me anyway is getting the patch that provides the windows triplet as an architecture into deep package it means convincing game for now So I was going to say that in terms of actually getting partial architectures off the ground one of the things that I think has always been a de facto blocker is we talk in general terms about how we can do this but I think somebody has come up with a concrete proposal and show that yes if we did this this is the set of packages that would make sense to build and why and we have a buildable closed set that is useful to do this for that's less than the architecture and has some sort of a policy around it which isn't altogether arbitrary and I think if we had something defined like that then you're right we would need to have the implementation of the builder as well but that it's not going to move until somebody puts together a more fleshed out proposal The closeness of the set is of course much easier when cross building so perhaps this winds up effectively blocked on build profiles so that we have that more official but you know most of the binaries we need presumably in fact come from some other architecture because you're using them as multi arch and things and cross building Right I mean if you did this if you did this as a partial architecture I imagine it will be like a little multi arch stub thing but you you'd have to make sure that nobody thought it was a good idea to install the you know the python dumps in AMD64.deb is not really usable as a for satisfying multi arch cross dependencies. Well this is python net BSD arm64 isn't it or net BSD something. Is that right? Well it's the thing you know the actual python file that's got the python code in it isn't okay it's an elf but it's a compressed elf kernel and to execute it you feed it to the Zen tool stack as a kernel image and you can't run it to run python scripts on the host. Right so that is then not a python 2.7.deb that is python 2.7-stubdom or something.deb it has different semantics it deserves a different page name regardless of what you do presumably this would be not too terrible for the python container since they wouldn't actually build this normally it would be a thing in their control file with an architecture field that's caused it not to actually be built for anything useful. Right I worry though about wrinkles so we've got here the other examples that we might want to do some cross builds for windows maybe wine or whatever it's likely that this also would require some violence done to the upstream source code I'm not expecting to be able to compile python unmodified it's possible in principle it should just work but there's going to be some bugs and some of them are going to be bugs in python that you know I will try to fix upstream but there's always a lag with that and some of them will be bugs in this whole rump set up well when I say bugs in felicities ways in which it's not like a real system and there have to be some bodge. This is where I think Debin Ports can come in handy because in Debin Ports you're allowed to carry packages from the main archive with your extra patches until they get merged upstream or merged into the main relevant package that's an excellent idea all I need to do then is to depend on something is to have my my you know your main Zen hypervisor get me all my stuff.deb meta package just needs to depend on the relevant package from ports and nothing can possibly go wrong then you try to get this into testing yeah right exactly one of these binaries that you're trying to build only useful in on a already AMD64 Arch install or do they are you aiming to have these packages these new ones that you're building be usable without the rest of the Linux host architecture well okay so in principle supposing Herd reported to Zen and could be a Zendom nod in principle the same Python Rump Zen AMD64 libraries executables etc would do for the Herd as would do for Linux and actually the build system for this stuff the host libc and so it doesn't involve the host kernel headers it involves NetBSD kernel headers which are supplied here at the bottom left and it gets more confusing than that because if for some reason you're running an i386 domnall rather than AMD64 domnall there are a couple of reasons why you might be doing that you probably still want to be running an AMD64 Rump Zen PV stub images so probably we only want Rump Zen AMD64 and not Rump Zen i386 and the i386 users will be using AMD64 packages and that that can work at the moment because as I understand it the GCC that's in Debian i386 can generate AMD64 code it just doesn't come necessarily with a libc but I've got a libc that's fine so far ad get source in the rules file is the most promising suggestion here or go around all the packages persuading them to use a source package deb one other option that you could consider that would probably be a lot of work would be to have your Rump Zen every one of the packages that you actually want to be available here under each one of the architectures which is kind of like what Fedora does for their MinGW toolchain sorry I'm not sure I follow so on Fedora the MinGW toolchain is MinGW32- GCC and then there's a huge slew of libraries that are the Windows binaries that you could use to link against if you want, say, SQLite for Windows then there are a collection of MinGW32-Sqlite packages it sounds like this is kind of analogous to what you're trying to do here you have a bunch of Rump Zen binaries that you want to put together and possibly libraries that they share except they are only shared at built time Fedora, you're duplicating all the source packages so it's kind of a mess source packages which are the same thing with the prefix right, right, I mean I could that's another thing that I could try to get through the FTP team anyways, our arch hold as well because it has a foreign arch inside it, right? it's arch hold in the central arch hold in the central not arch any yes it's jolly good it moves the problems elsewhere like they put these x steps I presume they didn't make that I was thinking of the selfie I'm not even sure it works anymore yeah, I mean I've placed it two years ago yeah, that was before so it seems to me we're not very keen on the IE32 libs-ish kind of we'll have one thing that knows how to do it all and does it all in the right order the remaining options are the IE32 libs-ish remaining options are probably that they all involve devs that contain these rumps in AMD64 libraries and at the end PV kernel images and the question is the question we're left with is how do those devs get built particularly from Witzel's code and our options that have been considered so far are we should have source steps we should go apt-get source in Debian Rules or we should duplicate the source code does anybody have a fourth option that's less bad has anybody been writing this down by the way no, I see I'm going to have to write it up later okay well I guess that's some kind of conclusion that at least allows me to go to the FTP team and present them with something that looks like a choice using Debian Ports was mentioned yes, Debian Ports is no good because these deliverables need to be in main this deliverable here needs to be in well probably main AMD64 multiarch so unless we're allowed to depend from main into ports which obviously right, but that's obviously not I can't see how you could ever get that to work properly well you just ship and app sources the decent effect with your Debian Ports T I would point out there is one at least one very important precedent for packages using well not app get source but app get in other ways in their build system and that is Debian Installer it fetches rather than using build dependencies to fetch bits of the installer which would then have to go in devs in some strange way or something that uses a specialised app configuration in its own build system in order to fetch the installer components that need to go in the initrds that it is about to shove into the archive via byhams right, so effectively it uses app to download devs u devs u devs, but from the archive yes, so it seems at least in principle obviously source packages are supposed to be allowed too then great brilliant I haven't done it in the Debian Archive I've done it in Ubuntu Archive but I was fetching source packages and then I would cross compile them and then I would use the results again to bootstrap the android toolchain but I was explicitly doing app get source and then declaring my build using such that I don't have to duplicate gcc and libc and blah blah blah this way I essentially was built depending on a source package ok, which which source packages contain the app get runes so that I can I can send you an email I'll send you an email great well maybe that's actually the answer to my problem by rain well thank you very much thank you


Okay, what's up y'all? We got a new episode of talk of the town today. We got a special guest Hey You've been everywhere in that kind of scene. I said you've been to you've been I've waited Matt interviews Music dropping. Yeah back to back.    Okay, um Favorite male to eat I Like one these bro.   Okay one place you want to visit?  What's the pick up on somebody using you the best one?   Yeah, how many kids one I can't do kids. Oh boy a girl. Okay name I don't even know. Okay. I'm not trying to have no kids right now. I'm so okay. It's no No time to like Okay, that's you better not really hate kids from our life. Oh my gosh. Okay. Anyways, who know the infamous question everybody wouldn't know I'm scared bro. Like come on hurt my eyes Like out of everything you could possibly ask me I'm thinking about everything you possibly asked me Oh, we just started in you know that I Got Oh Boston Listen only you could tell us where you from we don't know I Been said I was going back and forth Traveling traveling. So you feel like you feel like what I already I can genuinely say I Like I originated in the Bronx. I found my career Area you my friends. Yes, my friends was in the Bronx like everything was just my life was in the Bronx, bro I was just visiting my pops. Okay, and Would you go move up back up there? Yeah, I still be out there. Okay.  Yeah, I still be going over there Okay, so what to leave the mix to take a break to just go visit Okay, family Tom. Yeah, and then you get back on the internet star. Well, yeah Like you never left totally totally so um, so what has been I guess your favorite part so far I like your whole career so far Releasing music for my fans That's being a favorite part. Yeah So the recording process or the redrop process the dropping process the aftermath of everything. Oh I don't know.  Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I like it I like dropping music. Okay.  Yeah. Okay. I should just fly Okay, and um So drop there is the day All right, so what what was the first song you made? The like that I dropped or ever made ever made. Oh my god I don't remember I remember but like I don't remember the name I don't know. I mean it was singing or drew up and I was dropping from day one. Yeah, that was always the energy Yeah, okay, so what do you feel like inspired you?  I was doing it Like Like making music shit's fun Okay So like your friends inspired that I mean, yeah niggas told me to start doing it But like was you into music? What was you? Yeah? I mean, I'm a singer. I don't okay I don't really do this job. Okay. So you soon stop this job.  I mean eventually at some point. Yeah, but not fully because I know like Not a lot of them like people who watch me and stuff. They're not gonna really support Like some side like somebody jacket Everybody got their own different opinions. I was gonna say like do you feel like you would ever change your name?  I don't know like this Like I feel like it's mad aggressive low-key Like maybe a go into a murder be sure I'd be like what? Do you see what you think you would change your name in the near future or what inspired the name now um? Somebody on the S gave it to me on the block that you're talking with it.   Oh Um, I guess you could say it What's the difference?  I like to I mean me and my own little spaces I'd be chilling so I guess the why why you why do you think you got loud in the sense Bro when them lates turn on bro.   I can't go all bad, bro. That's it Okay, I seen you do like all the smash your pass videos and then the Pranks, yeah, and then you and nobody the girl just kissed you the other day. Yo, yo, bro I don't even know bro. I can't even answer your question. I'm not gonna lie So is that Bitches love me. Bitches love precious. Okay, word and then the niggas like murder be I don't even know Bro, the bitches and the niggas I'm not gonna say too much though. Okay I Lot of y'all draw rappers I'm not the same. I'll be seeing them in your comments Like who do you have a faith a favorite? Yeah No, no, nope Nobody here What? No, no, nobody in the room. No, no, nobody elsewhere. No. No. I'm my own favorite Joe rapper Okay, word Okay, but so the niggas on you.     Yeah, they'll try to use the stew come alone Line or I don't ever go to I'm going for that. I don't go I bring my manager and my engineer everywhere.  I know you link with four one in them. Yeah Do you see all the drama's going on with them? Leave me out of it. I don't even know what's going on with them. Like it's that's not my business I'm I'm murder B. Bro.  Okay, we've been supposed to lock in Yeah, I think it might happen soon. Yeah I'm jacking. I'm jacking her energy. She's cool. Okay. Okay aside from all of that other stuff For one shit, what about them? They all beef right now because apparently my was never for one. Listen, bro I don't got nothing to do with that. I don't got that, bro. I'm not fools. I'm not for one Those are just my sons for me. I just But music aside you and Maya still might cook up something.  That's yourself. So, um The girls you and the girl rappers Bro, I I'm gonna make this clear right now. You know what I'm about to say I didn't mean oh, yeah, I paved the way for Jen Kenzo went to all of I was talking about the newer bitches. I'm not even gonna say their name I'm talking about the newer bitches. You know who I'm talking about like There's a And they just popped up this in me.  Yeah, but all right. There's a copy of the way. I guess exactly In the same exactly. I don't know.   They took what I said completely out of context I mean, yeah, but that also was um, not in new york For me they're from chicago Exactly my point Exactly my point It was a chicago interview.  They don't know y'all niggas. They don't even know me So it's like you feel me like so how do you going to go about that move forward? Do you only want to sit down with people that know you? I'ma keep it a hundred bro I'ma just watch what I say on the internet. That's that's my lesson learned That's how I'm tp on what I tell you right now, bro.  It's some viral part of everything.   Oh Oh, it's like mad videos you lack Lacking lacking on some saying something girl.  You never got called lacking, right? No, so then it wouldn't be a video Exactly, but I just wanted to know what you meant by that. I know just the interviews and stuff Yeah, but yeah, maybe so but all in all though you and kenzo dead of that Who you and kenzo dead of that? You're not gonna talk about that girl I don't know who that is We could listen to dump it coming out soon That'll tell you everything you need to know I'm bit is coming out soon. Yeah, shiny bonnie Oh, we know. Yeah. Oh, we know that's my little means The question is is that the same beat though? Yeah, this was that on purpose? No, but it was hilarious That was no purpose. Nah, because shawnee did it first. Shawnee did it first So how it happened like how did the Shawnee did the beat way before she even did the beat added you to it and yeah, like We just we just did it over See, it wasn't intentional But then like we knew what it would do I'ma say that and then when she started out right originally my verse on it Wasn't as disrespectful as it was like it was actually just talking about like regular It could show me that she didn't want you to this on the assumption. Yeah, yeah, but She went on live talking about the both of us and then that's when I posted the first few seconds of the beat And posted on my story trying to be petty because I knew it would get her take Yeah For me, but then I changed my verse once I heard she said she was smoking on Danny. So Okay, so we got a new and improved. Yeah, pretty much.  What do you think? um I have no idea how to answer that question to like when you write and do you want to do you want to have the best verse or do you like I'm not gonna lie. I don't care about the verses bro.   Y'all got other music besides. I don't know. No, we plan on doing it though I'm not gonna lie. I spend a lot of time with her to be honest. Oh y'all like besties now I guess you can say that we're close close Any any other girlies though? um Girls in the drill see Yeah, is it not me and my uncle's but we're cool.  Jen Me and Jen cool, obviously Jen is bad Right. Oh, oh, they been sued. She she also calls me. We know each other on every interview. Yeah Is she in jail? Yeah, she calls me. Oh, yeah, I spoke recently. Yeah.  You can record in jail, right? Yes, she's in little girl jail. Like what makes you think she's gonna go record in jail? Like Yo, I seen I'm not gonna say I know who you're talking about.   Uh, that's cool.   I don't like a lot.  No, I don't think you should stop doing music.  I feel like if you transition now You don't think it's too too early Bro, you got something with the girl from Chicago. You're basically moving around if you keep traveling more. I feel like soon if it just Yeah And don't you play like instruments and sing and all this other stuff? Yeah, I do I guess I don't know.  Sometimes I can't tell What do you mean if you like the controversy or you just calm down?   No, yeah Okay, and it's like that in New York. Was it like that when you went to Chicago? No, but they were still getting in tune with you. Yeah word word word.  Unfortunately, I mean But do you feel like um drill music is gonna keep going? Or do you feel like it's gonna end so I feel like there's gonna be a new arrow drill, bro The arrow right now is females bro. I swear to god I think the girls are going a little sad, bro. There's mad bitches now. There's mad bitches Yeah, not a lot of them can sing cool. We're gonna have more singing you snippeted something at the end of Trying to go. Yeah. What's up with that?  That's not a lot. I made a single song the other day. Okay, so you still recorded a single song? Yeah Okay I'll go to everything. So are you gonna work on like a second name though? Like you're gonna keep murder You really stuck on that. What what do you think my name should be? I don't know I don't know yet, but I definitely think murder be could be for the like city hood shit, but I think you need like A mainstream like how am I supposed to do that? Everybody already knows me about murder be already You could change it, bro. Please don't like becoming an mb I look like No, but do you like um like the blog pages or you feel like they be a mixie or you feel like they stalking you at this point Like how do you feel bro?  I'm tired of every single blog page Well, I'm tired of it. I'm tired of seeing myself.   Yeah Hey, damn, I'm nervous. I'm fake a blog.  And what was it?  No, it wasn't it wasn't even a picture. It was a screenshot of her texting me Bullshit Oh Yeah, I just I just don't like that. All the pages are anonymous I know, right?  You know what blog page.  They just be on in that right after school Yeah, just posting about us, bro. Yeah y'all entertaining though. Y'all be cool.   No, bro. That's not viby, bro No, I don't I don't think it's good.       I can't no I'm good Gucci, I don't chill a nigga zone Okay, but Okay, so that's cool. So what would you say some of your milestones so far? Like what is some accomplishment you're proud of? um Like, um, I don't know getting signed Yeah, I knew that was gonna happen though.  You didn't take it some time. I thought I was gonna I thought I was gonna get it in the summer this summer coming up So you got it right before the new year Or anything else though Um introduction at like a million views now we're at introduction and not again What out of million and then the next one that's gonna hit a million is no facie this shit It's already at like 700 800 I was peeping and then this year you was nominated for best new artist Yeah, artist to watch the line artist to watch 2023 So I was nominated for a few bro. You was nominated for a few Yeah, he was nominated for that one and one more Exactly. It was I think best new artist, yeah But so we got the votes votes are in Say the name say the name say the name say the name Oh Damn, we got you for I just watched 2023.  Oh, oh, give them a little. Oh wait. That wasn't for the fans. That was for the ops All right to this to this camera. Thank you to everyone who nominated me. I love you so much Oh, yeah, I'm definitely an artist who watched the facts.  So that would be a grammy speech. Yep. I mean What Yeah Nah grammy speech is crazy. I can't not just imagine. He was doing a real speech. Like tell your fans like how you feel um You shocked. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't expected to get a I wasn't expecting to get one. I'm like no, I I ain't even know I was nominated for this. That's crazy though.  I'm really artist to watch though I don't think I just don't know for 2023. I just don't know.   No cap. No kissing. Who was who was who was right next to me jay star bowler But your fans looked out now word. I'm jacking it. I'm jacking it I appreciate all of our votes only that word. It's only so you got to share it tell your fans to vote for you and all that So, yeah, but anyways, what what could we expect for 2023 since we watching you this year, right?  Yeah, I want to ask you a question I don't want to be mixy though. What's up, but who do you feel like helped break your career? If you could shout out like, I don't know one two three people Because people's been my manager and engineer. Um, I didn't have no features. I did it by myself so even Do you feel like blogs or anything helped or not blogs wasn't even posting me when I first came out Rapson hustles, maybe rapson hustles. Yeah, k low rapson hustles k low my manager My engineer that's pretty much it Okay, I did it by myself. No future for first song million On a pre-mix on a pre mix on a pre mix Okay, yeah, I just wanted to ask because you know, it'll be a lot of controversy when artists break out like how sassy you did Everybody kind of say yeah, I helped do that. I helped do that. So I wanted to see who you said they helped No, not for you, but that's what happens when artists say if they said they helped do that No, because yeah, people be you know, people be want to say credit for Helping out Even still even still on your journey now Who do you feel like is helping you? I guess I don't want to say keep the flow But like what do you feel like helps?   Um What else?   Yeah, bro.   I don't even know boy. It's chilling. I mean, it's cold now.  So how do you like um, I guess how are you coping with everything? I guess like keeping Trying to keep your business private and stuff like that. How are you dealing with it right now? Are you talking to somebody? I know you say you're on socials less No, I already know just off socials I like I don't look at things. I don't want to see okay.  I limited my comments I'm over that. Okay. All right. And do you feel like um do you feel like I know you Got some more stuff coming.  I'm basically in competition with the niggas, bro. No, like The bitches just started talking the way I was talking Okay, was Kenzo dissing before before I got her to you say you didn't know her 10 minutes ago and no No, no, I'm not but keep it above.  Okay. So how was she ever dissing before before I got her to Say She was never saying exact names Exactly my point. I don't I mean, I'm not into the politics. So I don't know who the Danny person is I don't know but um I don't what like I don't know I'm just I just think that you know how my point You know how like Chicago is making a joke like oh new york rappers just dissing, you know What are your thoughts on that I don't even know I don't really care what them niggas gotta say I don't really care if anybody tells me anything about this and I don't care because it's like My mouth's the same way Again, I I'm scared I feel like you gotta like show your personal you should do vlogs you should show your personality more I know you seen prince raheem's vlog Not the chaos birthday Nice.  I know y'all was at the party and she was there Yeah, fortunately But it was cool might be good. She's safe. Everything's good. Yeah Nothing makes you happen. It's cool.   I like girls Okay, I got girls here too.  Okay Asian dog I spy shiny bunny.     He got money.   Who are for fun? Who did you say this is all for fun? Who did you say busy banks dougie b b love? damn It's all for funny. All right. All right.    Huh? You behind that account?  I don't got time to say what the idea is Nah, that was heavy. I'm like a lot. All right. That's too much. No more Keep it going. Okay Okay What else could you possibly ask me that you already didn't buy? Okay Take block the thing what and not Oh, no, you just did that old purpose. It's really listed here, but I don't know Um, neither of So we can skip that one. That's a good one. All right last one Curly staff being those then again, you know all right You said Curly side stun again. It's done again. You know I'll marry son again.    Okay So but you you don't seem to be into the lover boys. You like a gangster. Yeah facts What what is some what are some qualities? Murder bees new boo got to have like five qualities. Um, he gotta have money Uh Ignore him He gotta have money Five qualities for a nigga for you. I like a tall nigga. Okay word. He got to be super tall um He's got to be on that.  I can never date a pussy nigga again Never again All right, two more again um He got to be willing to crash out for me Willing to crash out. Yeah Word I don't know. It's giving Christiana blue face. Yeah, I need it. I need a blue face. Yep. I need a blue face Do you want me one?  Wait, what you said I want to be single I want to be single for a long time. Yes. I'm Gucci. So not interested in nobody right now. Nope. Not even girls.  I love that for y'all word You eat y'all be on the phone.   We want to leave only what you think want to go Cali Cali Cali Okay, I'm gonna be a cali girl bro. I feel like you like it over there I feel like I would like it over there too. One some is mad spacious. You can move around how you want You think so?  I don't think it's like Oh, yeah, that should be mixy. Okay. That's it.  No Okay, well, it really depends really depends.  No next question You see how I stopped myself like what's it got like Yeah, it was good. It was good.  Then I just stopped myself.  You gotta be on point all times. It's a vlog crying It's a vlog. No, this is not the interview. This is a vlog. We're gonna edit the vlog Who me What are you talking about? What Good night, bro Can you stop saying that I'm a while though?  This is not about you or none of y'all. This is not about you They could be in watch. Anyways, move along move along Move along anyways. Um, are you gonna drop our project this year? Shout out Yeah, I will drop an album album. Yeah got release date. No features. Do we have a release date? Huh, oh, yeah, um, the title is gonna be murder. She wrote I'm actually again So project's coming out. Yes this year. Yes, and now one or two or do I think it's two to be on it Okay. Yeah, I think a mixtape. Yeah release date I don't have one The title is going to be a murder. She wrote and the features on it. I think It's gonna be Full one situation the oa situation Okay, anybody bigger like we know you know them I know tana wants to help on my album. Huh tana, you know tana? Yeah, he do. Yeah Yeah, that's awesome. All right. That's good. That's good. Anybody else? I see the only person right now right now. Okay Um, you've been hitting people to collaborate or not? No, I don't really No, just gonna let it come. Yeah. Well, how did the um mellow bucks come? Uh through my manager She was cool. Y'all cool. Yeah, she's cool. You'll go back to Chicago. Yeah, she's like my Chicago twin I like her a lot. I like her a lot. Okay I like her a lot actually. Okay, that's what's up Okay Anyway, so any before we close out anything you want to set the record straight on Any rumors you want to set straight before we close out? Are you talking about anything specific? No, it's just whatever No, I think I already said what I had to say like about the interviews and shit So tell me what to find you would find you find your music and let them know who's to watch 2023 Murda B artists to watch, you know For me, I go say too much you can see On youtube just search up murda b and you can find me at murda b 64 It's pretty much it or at murda b murder two guns, huh page back. Yeah You got like three pages now Nah, I got two still. Okay. I'm ready to be trained. That's not you. That is me, but I changed that I changed it to murder two guns of the z Okay Okay, she's on that


Hello and welcome to NewsClick. In solidarity with farmers who have been protesting Modi government's draconian farm laws, people from various sections of the society have joined a Bharat Bandh today on December 8th. But what is this Bandh and why was it called? The initial call for a Bandh was given on 4th of December by Sanyukth Kisan Morcha, a body that includes nearly 500 farmer organizations from across the country. They are leading the ongoing farmer's protest which includes blocking of several highways entering Delhi and the protest actions held in several states since the blockade started on 27th of November. The 27th November blockade was a culmination of ongoing farmer's protest that had been taking place since June when the Modi government first introduced these laws as farm ordinances. In September, the government got these passed as laws by ramming through the parliament without a proper discussion or voting. All these months, farmers were protesting against these laws pointing out that they had never been consulted and that these laws would destroy the present system of farming, trade in agricultural produce and even storage and pricing of such produce. Yet the Modi government ignored the protests and went ahead with the laws probably thinking that with pandemic raging in the country no effective protest would materialize. But farmers were so angry with the laws that they decided to march to Delhi on 26th and 27th November to register their protests. The marching farmers, mainly from neighboring states were met with tear gas, water cannons and road blocks in Haryana which they successfully broke and reached the Delhi borders at various points. They have since been camped there and are determined to continue with their protests until these laws are repealed. Shaken by these events the Modi government invited farmers to talk with the ministers for the first time. However, even after three rounds of talks right now and two rounds initially that is in total five rounds it has become clear that the government is unwilling to roll back the laws hence the farmers have called for the Bharat Band to show their country-wide support and make the government realize its folly. In recent days following the protests effigies of PM Modi and corporate big wigs like Ambani and Adhanis have been burned by the protesters in thousands of locations while local road blockades have taken place everywhere. This goes to show the anger that is bubbling among farmers an anger that is not going to be brought down so easily just token talks. The rigidity of the government has become well-known across the country and as has its dirty tricks to sabotage the farmers movement. The Band is being supported by 18 major political parties 10 central trade unions and hundreds of other organizations representing people from all walks of life including employees, officers of banks insurance sectors, university, school teachers students, youth, women, organizations of Dalits and Adivasis veterans of armed forces film industry, workers, informal sector workers contractual workers and even Bar Council of India.