Ability Leadership which is an independent part of the University of Cambridge that works to support and enable leaders to tackle global challenges and to deliver a more sustainable economy. One of the things that we are most proud of is that we run a number of business leadership groups including our corporate leaders groups in the UK and across Europe and that we are able through those groups to connect with other like-minded business groups around the world. So I'm really pleased that we are hosting today's conversation to talk about a very exciting development and a relaunch of our efforts to connect up those groups with international sister groups around the world, both ones that already exist but ones that we are able to help, foster and bring into creation. We have, you know, we are already connected to a number of sister groups partly through our membership of the Women and Business Coalition which is a great international coalition that we are very pleased to be part of, but we're also very pleased that there are a number of groups that we've been connected to in the past and have indeed helped, found and support and mentor over the years and now have now in turn learned a lot from speaking to them. So it's the existence of coming together leadership groups of business that are helping to drive the conversation in their own context, in their own country that has been a really critical part of helping change the way that climate policy is being delivered in many, many countries around the world. We see it as a really important development and we want to kind of try and develop that and build that to even greater levels of effectiveness in the countries where it exists and bring it to life in countries where it doesn't exist. So it's a very exciting conversation. Today we're going to have a brief discussion, we're going to hear from a range of speakers including some of those other groups that I mentioned, some of the key businesses that we work with, but to set the scene I'm very pleased that we have a keynote speaker who is a policymaker, former minister in the UK but a leader of a review in the UK about how the UK can best deliver its climate target, its net zero target and particularly bring in more business logic into that. So I'm very pleased to have Chris Gidmore MP to speak to us today, thank you. Thank you so much for this kind opportunity to address you today, I'm honoured to be here for the relaunch of the Climate Leaders Network, Corporate Leaders Network for Climate Action. I'm doubly honoured that you've chose to listen to me today rather than go off and listen to President Biden, deeply grateful, I hope you're able to catch a speech later. But I think this is a really important moment, in terms of what has been stated, we've had a number of Corporate Leaders groups in the past that highlighted the opportunity for collaboration, for shared best practice, for ensuring you have that opportunity to meet, to discuss ideas, to come together and to be honest with you that's one of the things that I think we need more of in the UK, it's one of the reasons why I've taken forward the net zero review, sorry is this a bit sort of distracting, otherwise I'm happy to move to a mic if that sounds a bit better. So what I wanted to do today was to talk about the net zero review that I'm the independent chair of and why the UK is sort of taking this forward and how this then relates into I think the work that the Corporate Leaders Network for Climate Action will be taking forward. Three years ago I was the minister responsible for signing net zero into law and actually it was an interesting sort of case study I think in seeing a country deciding to take decisive leadership on climate, the UK became the first G7 country to legislate for net zero, we'd already introduced the Climate Change Act back in 2008 and at that time we had an 80% emissions reduction of 1990 levels that were set into law but what that meant was that for that 20% many organisations and companies could claim for whatever reason that they should be considered in that 20% and it became clear that not just to meet our emissions reductions in the climate budgets that were set out if we were going to be serious on climate change everyone needed to be responsible for taking action so moving from 80% to 100% was a really key moment for UK businesses what I didn't realise was how much of a key moment it would be for the rest of the world and if you told me three years on three and a half years on that I'd be here at COP 27 with 90% of the world's GDP under some form of net zero target I simply wouldn't have believed you and why did net zero go viral is a good question fascinated by what makes good policy how do we deliver and implement effectively is a key question for policymakers all too often in climate policy I mean in particularly energy policy and in my own government we've seen things go disaster wrong schemes that have failed failed to take off new projects that have run out of money projects that fail to incentivize supply chains now why did those fail because I think they didn't listen to that interface in the voice of business recognizes the demand on the ground and understands how to deliver and it's that agency of delivery I think it's a common theme here at COP 27 the Glasgow climate pact ended up settling the Paris rulebook we now have those NDCs most of them interfacing with the net zero commitments but talk is cheap we now have the strategies but they are just paper strategies we now need to implement and deliver and show them in real time what chains not just 2050 2030 looks like and that means countries coming together to work out what is best not just for their national economies but how they can share ideas and bring down the cost of renewable and clean technologies by working together on shared projects sharing knowledge and information by which they can then demonstrate what best practice looks like but critically making sure that best practice doesn't remain best practice I see some fantastic examples of pilots and demonstrators and local communities coming together what do we need to do to unlock that to ensure that this becomes the new normal that we can get rid of best practice by ensuring it's just enshrined across the board so what we see in one country we can emulate elsewhere understanding there may be differences in legislation regulation but where can we adopt where possible that best opportunity to change so for the review I'm taking forwards three years on it's not so much about the targets I'm not seeking to review the net zero target I'm not seeking to reopen any of our frameworks I'm not rowing back on our climate commitments and I'd be the last person to do that rather what I want to do is to say these are the targets you know as I said talk is cheap politicians are fond of it but climate action requires action so how do we deliver that action by looking at those commitments and providing the guard rails ensuring against the policies say if we've got an EV target if we've got a heat pump target if we've got a decarbonizing the power supply by 2035 target how can we make sure we don't go off track what do we need to do now to safeguard that target for the future and how can we think about a systems-based approach that recognizes we need to build up supply chains build up capabilities build up capacities in order to be able to demonstrate that we're actually going to reach the target and also how can we do this by taking the whole of society with us I think business is no better than government as salespeople you can't do anything unless people can see what you're doing it's going to make a difference to their lives where is the utility of the product and the product here in net zero is demonstrating that the energy transition isn't just about tackling climate change the environment incredibly important that is we're doing this because it's going to make people's lives better and trying to communicate that to people that is going to make them warmer richer have improved home standards improved health outcomes improved communities better public transport all of these co-benefits the business knows how to communicate effectively to its customers is what I think governments need to learn from business and so I've been going around the country in the UK listening to every devolved nation every region to find out again what at work what's working well what can we scale up also been holding sort of round tables with every sector every business group and organization to ask them what are the opportunities for the future that maybe we haven't encapsulated in our own net zero strategy but where are those barriers for deployment where can we identify along a number of horizontal axes the regulations the legislation the government procurement government competitions government investment skills where are those opportunities to say this is blocking a pipeline of supply how can we unblock it and make sure that we can deploy the supply of energy faster but also how can we ensure that companies can decarbonize in a way that is going not to affect their balance sheet how can we make sure that decarbonization is going to be profitable and an investment I think one of the mistakes we made actually adopting net zero in the UK is that we brought net zero forwards without really bottoming out a strategy of how we are going to deliver and also when we brought net zero forward in legislation it was always the dynamic was always about the cost two trillion pounds or one percent of GDP and obviously since then the media has picked up on saying all this going to cost the taxpayer you know what two percent of GDP it's not because the cost is actually going to be born by the private sector you know this but it for yourselves it's not a cost it's a huge opportunity and investment to be able to look again at supply chains to look again how you do things more productively and efficiently and to be able to create new business models yes we'll have the initial cost but we'll return an investment in spades over time so I think this opportunity this relaunch of the corporates leaders network of climate action is really exciting because it's going to bring together constituent countries not just from the West not just from America Europe and the UK I think the ambition here is to reach countries from Latin America from Asia from Africa to highlight some of those voices that maybe haven't traditionally been heard but deserve to demonstrate the action they're taking and also that we can learn the lessons from them and in the review I'm taking forwards which I've got to do by the end of the year I'll be looking to put together a range of policies along a number of pillars so what I've tried to articulate is that we can deliver net zero better if we strengthen its foundations for the future so that includes looking at securing net zero identifying security of supply how do we make sure the lights stay on how do we onshore our capabilities as best possible on the energy transition working internationally in collaboration so we don't duplicate our efforts the real risk of energy sovereignty and energy nationalism is actually we close our doors to each other when actually having opportunities companies to collaborate and work out where we can best but place our efforts is really important from lowering the cost of the transition secondly looking at net zero and the powering net zero so each sector by sector what we go further faster what are the barriers then zero in the economy listening to the voice of business not just the multinational companies but really importantly the SMEs and understanding for those companies that want to decarbonize want to go net zero how can we build capability capacity and knowledge in order to allow them to make their own net zero journey fourth pillar is then it's are in the community because I passionately believe in the next stage net zero is going to be local you know we're all here talking about what we're going to achieve as countries it will be a regional approach in every country that delivers net zero further faster you all know in your respective nations which are the regions that have a different agricultural footprint a different industrial footprint you know a different housing footprint they'll all need to reach that zero in a different way but actually the commonality between our nations will be we're going to be able to work together on how to deliver energy efficiency measures in high-density housing you know there are cities that are comparable both in the UK to China to New Mexico where we can work together on these shared problems that's very much obviously what the breakthrough project is about fifthly I'm interested in looking at net zero and the individual the household so how can we again what's the retail offer first people have got a mortgage they want to think about changing their car to an EV they want to think about you're moving to a heat pump they want to transition to net zero but they're worried about the cost and this is where the voice of business is going to be absolutely critical as I often think you know it comes to a mobile phone you know the government didn't pay my mobile phone no one sort of said right you know we need this upfront cost of capital to be able to deliver this it happens because firstly it was a utility that people wanted the innovation was there to be able to deliver a cheaper product over time and thirdly we created the financial mechanisms by which to deliver a lower cost of capital through private financing and loan systems over time and that was delivered by business for business because you recognize that actually creating industries the utilities for people for the future it needs to happen we need to come together to achieve that and can't often wait for government to achieve it either so I think if government had designed the mobile phones they might have a very different to what they look like now I would like to think actually what would have happened and then finally thinking about pillar six net zero in the future what are the technologies that we've yet to develop might be direct air capture new nuclear might be looking at hydrogen how can we collaborate as nations again recognizing our respective expertise is spread across the world how can we share our knowledge how can we at the same time recognize that one country may have competitive advantage but there will be a learning opportunity for other countries to trade in not just materials and create new international supply chains but in people and that's the other thing I think it's really interesting about having the corporate leaders network of climate action is as people you will come together and share your own respective skill sets and I'm very keen in the review also not just a focus on the UK so if anyone wants to send me an international example is what I'm keen to demonstrate is that we are now in a net zero race not to compete with each other that's futile the race is obviously a race against time on tackling our emissions but at the same time this international shared opportunity for us to look at other nations and say this is what success looks like this is what good looks like this is what excellence looks like why are we doing what Germany are doing about energy efficiency there are many things in the UK that I look at all the time and say what's why can't we be like Norway but I'm sure other countries turns the UK and look at us and say why can't we be like the UK it's just an irony that every country always underplays its strengths and looks abroad to see what other countries are doing best but I think having this shared network you'll be able to understand where you we all sit on that journey and it is a separate journey we're going to get there in separate speeds some will go further faster some will slow down some will accelerate but by working together we have the opportunity to achieve the common destination at the same time so I'm honored to be able to be here for the relaunch I wish you all the best I know it's just the start of a journey I ensure this journey will mean that we will achieve net zero further and faster thank you very much thank you Chris for your kind words and the very thoughtful words and I think we couldn't have asked for a better articulation of the value of business and government working in partnership which I think is at the core of the corporate leaders groups wherever they exist so I think that that's really really nicely put so we've been talking about this relaunch and also thank you and well done Chris for not only competing with the president of the United States but also with quite a lot of background noise so well done on that front and well done to the audience for bearing with this on this front as well and we've been talking about the relaunch of the corporate leaders network I'm sure you want to hear a little bit more about what it is and how we want to work so I'm going to hand over to my colleague Beverly Cornaby who's going to take us through a bit of a presentation before bringing in some of the the sister groups around that around the world who have talked about how they were there thank you very much at it so I'm just going to run through a few slides just to introduce the group but also set the context for it as well because it's just I know most of you know us but it's just to say about you know how did this come about and how does it operate as well so most of you actually in here know us but for those that don't we're from the Cambridge Institute for sustainability leadership we convene the UK and European corporate leaders group and that is one of the key things that we do is in terms of convening we bring together business voice with government voice also often the finance voice as well we do other things we include education includes research and we also have an accelerator and sustainability program but really what this is about is how do we convene globally not just within the areas that we are at the moment so the corporate leaders groups themselves we have the UK and European corporate leaders groups and we've got some of our members here in the audience and what do they do well we're convening the business voice and it's a cross-sector voice taking it to government to really kind of show what business wants we do this and just to say as well as the UK and European corporate leaders groups we actually have other groups that we're going to hear from in a minute as well some of them set up in a very similar way to us so both of the corporate leaders groups were set up 15 years ago they've kind of evolved over time but is it generally the kind of the premise of them is stayed the same in terms of actually taking that business voice to government CLG Chile and the Japan Climate Leaders Partnership were set up in very similar ways to us and operating similar bit different ways to us other groups have emerged some of which existed previously some of which are newer and one of those we also hear from is the Spanish Green Growth Group as well what everyone says about actually how do we bring about that change you know how we're trying to operate and actually how we're trying to increase ambition and one of the way that we do it is through what we call the ambition loop and the ambition loop is about actually how do you show ambition by by business that can increase ambition by government and in turn that that can actually increase ambition by business and then you go around in this loop that means that actually eventually we will get well on the way to net zero and we will actually meet our ambitions and there's many key things of that and some of it is things like you know business asking for policy certainty asking for certain types of policy ensuring that leadership is there in terms of government which in turn can lead to business leadership businesses also are able to be proactive and kind of lead the way and therefore bring government with them in terms of actually what needs to happen and it's those ambition loops that we really want to support through this network we want to enable that national level advocacy by business to really support climate ambition and to increase it on a national level and not just within the UK and the European Union where we operate but within other countries as well and this is where we're looking at both the existing groups but also bringing together potentially new groups in different countries so just to introduce the corporate leaders network itself originally it was set up around 10 or so years ago and it was done at that time to kind of bring together the groups that existed at that time for various reasons it just didn't kind of continue over time and what we're looking now to do is kind of really build on the momentum that was actually started by UK being co-president and also the high level champion Nigel Topping the creation of the race to zero which the race to zero really led to I mean I can't even you know I don't even know the exact number now it keeps going up in terms of actually how many businesses have made commitment through the race to zero but certainly in the UK we've sent something like a seven-fold increase in companies making commitments to the science-based target initiative in just the last two years which is quite significant we've also got I think the highest number of SMEs that have made commitments as well through the SME climate hub and therefore we're looking at actually how do we kind of build on that global momentum of businesses coming forward making those commitments showing that greater ambition and therefore supporting them and kind of creating this global network where that actually they can also work to support in terms of increased government ambition as well so the objectives really of the group is to and I mean I think actually Chris you know you touched on some of these points in terms of it's about you know the visibility of actually what is happening and what businesses are doing within their own countries it's about coordination as well and actually using moments such as the COP you know there's other moments as well such as Davos such as New York Climate Week and a key of times when we can actually come together and collectively show what we're doing on a national level but also then kind of promote that in terms of actually how we connect together and potentially forming collaborations that can lead to even greater impact it's also about supporting the groups themselves with that national level advocacy so looking at actually what is happening on a global stage where is the progress or where does progress need to happen and actually how can we translate that into what businesses could be doing at a national level and support therefore the activities of the different groups and part of it is also as I've mentioned about the sharing of practice between the different groups we're all at different you know as Chris refers to it's like every different country is at a different point in their journey and there's some that are ahead in certain areas some that are ahead in other areas and actually how do we come together to share what different countries are doing to support that raising of ambition globally in terms of how it will operate the CISL so ourselves will provide the secretary for it we're seeking to have it as a funded group so that therefore you know the members themselves don't need to pay into it and in that way we're aiming to kind of have regular meetings to have collaborations also supporting through academic knowledge and kind of drawing on the fact that we're based within a university some of our other the other corporate leaders groups also have that kind of academic connections as well also trying to build on those and also building some of the experts that we're linked into and be able to kind of use them to support the work of the groups and to be able to bring their knowledge to really kind of accelerate progress we will be looking at the membership so we do have a page that is gone live on our website where we can have groups that can apply to it what we're looking though in terms of members is groups such as ourselves such as CLG Chile such as JCLP who have similar ambitions and are seeking to operate in a similar way and therefore that we can come together and kind of a level way in terms of actually the kind of raising of that ambition we will obviously be you know open to applications so we're hoping that there's some groups come forward that we're actually not aware of or that we kind of haven't got strong links to that we can create stronger links to and as I mentioned actually one of the things that we're also doing is looking at what are the opportunities to potentially create equivalents corporate leaders groups in countries that may not have that business collaboration at the moment that is looking to do policy advocacy and what are the opportunities there so at the moment we're actually already scoping one potential group in South Africa seeing whether that is feasible and we'll be looking to scope further groups as well if that you know once we've kind of learned from that process to see where there is other opportunities to bring business together to be able to operate in a similar way and do that national level advocacy I'm gonna now invite our colleagues from CLG Chile JCLP and also the Spanish Green Grace Group so Kohori, Teresa and Gonzalo to join me now and I'm going to be in conversation with them to explore actually some of the activities they're doing and actually how they're operating as different groups thank you for joining me up here so the first thing I'm going to do is ask you each to introduce yourself and just say a bit about your group and about who your members are in terms of actually how you operate so Kohori I will come to you first thank you thank you very much and it's a great honor for me to be here I am a co-chair of JCLP Japan climate leaders partnership we were established in 2009 which was quite a long time ago but the membership grew exponentially in the past in the recent like this five years probably and because up until five years ago we only had probably 20 companies 20 members in the group but now today we have 225 businesses companies in the in the group and the total sales is approximately 130 trillion Japanese yen which is about 900 billion US dollars and I always use this number the next one is 65 tell-a-what hour of electricity use in total with all these companies and I like to use this number because it shows because one of the the biggest message that we are always wanting is that we want more renewable and electricity and this shows how much demand we have in in in Japan and all these utility companies come back and say well nobody wants renewable energy so that's why it's expensive and we have you know we don't make it that much but no you're wrong we have 65 tell-a-what hour of companies who are willing to buy so that's a very strong message that and it's one of the key message that we had for this past couple years and so I'll just leave it there it's a quick introduction thank you thank you Teresa thank you well thank you very much for the invite I think it's a pleasure and an honor to be here and to share a bit the experience from Chile we are CLG Chile we are founded in the year 2009 so very similar that in Japan however we are only 24 so we are lying a bit behind but I think it's great we have 24 firms and I would like to say a bit about the composition of those firms because we have about eight firms which are mining or cement companies we have five electricity companies we have three banks we have one technology one retailer and other sectors but we haven't covered all the sectors so that's one of the challenges that we want okay because obviously we are a mining sector and that's important for us we produce a lot of renewable energy you know we are into green hydrogen now as well but we would like I mean in order to make it you know net zero we need everybody on board therefore we need to expand towards other economic sectors as well as the supply chain so yes we are very happy we have two firms that are here with us Banco Estado and Sochi Mitch from Chile so it's a pleasure to share with you and we would like not only to share the successes but also not calling the failures but the processes perhaps I think that's very important and we really appreciate this opportunity to do that so thank you brilliant thank you and Gonzalo thank you good afternoon to everyone I'm Gonzalo Sainte Viera I'm the chairman of the Spanish green growth group so we are in between the two groups we are we are 60 members we are we represent 60 percent of the Spanish stock market that is a lot so we have financial firms like the biggest banks you know the biggest utilities you know the biggest consumers so I think I haven't done this number but I think we will represent something like 40 percent of the energy consumption in in Spain and so we were created only 10 years ago and we are very active in Spain you know having conversations with political parties with environmental NGOs and the first thing I want to share is that last year we'll review our bylaws our mission and our vision because I think it's very healthy because things are moving very rapidly so we decided to review our bylaws to be much more ambitious and to adapt our objectives our vision and our mission to this very changing environment so thank you brilliant thank you Gonzalo so what I want to explore with you is some of the kind of the challenges the opportunities kind of what the groups do and also some things about your members as well in terms of what they're doing and so the first question I want to ask you is about actually you know what are some of the policy challenges you're facing and actually that you're trying to address within your own country that you're taking the business voice to that you see as critical for them to be able to have influence and you know and that supports them in their own activities don't need to raise if you want to go first yes well I think that's our one of the things that we are more proud of I mean if the governments wants to have a benchmark from the private sector in Chile they will come to us okay in terms of climate change and that's very important because that means that we can talk we can have our voice we can discuss things related with regulation which are very important for the private sector because in the end we want regulation we want certainty that's the way that we need you know in order to do good businesses and and we've been you know talking and participating in the process we just got the law the climate change law in Chile and we have a lot of talking you know and participating at the different stages of the development of the law and so we are very proud of that connection and not only with that but also with the ministry of energy obviously with the ministry of the environment as well with the ministry of economy the ministry of finance so we have a very easy way of communication which is extremely good yeah brilliant and you've actually reminded me that probably one thing I should have said is that actually are the origin of actually our UK and European corporate leaders groups was when the UK was bringing its climate change you know was considering climate change and whether it should take any action the then prime minister which was Tony Blair actually stood up and said well i want to hear from the voice of business and that was actually what led to you know the creation of the corporate leaders groups and as a result of that actually those business first businesses that stood up you know they helped influence and actually get the UK you know the UK climate change act and actually then a couple of years ago we then convene you know we produced a letter and actually put pressure on the government from business to say actually we need a higher target and that was when the net zero by 2050 target came in and it was seen we've got a direct correlation between that letter going in and the business pressure and then prime minister Theresa May actually putting it into law and it shows the influence actually the groups can have in the formation of those those policies Ghori i'm gonna come to you i mean you talked about renewable energy i was wondering whether you've had you know any successes or still challenges actually in that area um thank you um about the um success first of all um yes i did talk about renewable energy but before that we were hoping the government to uh come up with a target because we need targets in order to any policy or whatever to come forward so um our mission back in five years ago it was for the government to come up with a decent reduction target which is 50 percent of course and actually japan did come up with net zero target and 46 percent but it was close enough and of course it was probably because uk did the net zero and japan was influenced by that but i would like to take some credit that our group had in influencing the government to bring up the ndc ndc so so um that's a that's we we take it um as our success because we were really happy that the government did bring up to that point and now the challenge is um we have to implement a lot of different things i think the biggest um challenge that we have right now is we want the carbon pricing implemented so that will make a lot of businesses um the they it will change the way we do business and it will sort of force business to change and um we need to innovate in an innovative way so that's a challenge right now um we don't know when but we're trying we'll hopefully soon that's why that's where we are brilliant and it's probably worth mentioning that actually some of these things do take time that you know there is that kind of constant pressure and constantly asking and actually kind of going with the right evidence going with the right information and i think that's an important part and sorry just to say if anyone's watching and seeing us swat away there's flies coming up around us which isn't the most pleasant they go for our faces um Gonzalo would you like to come in in terms of yes i i agree with what you say for instance on carbon pricing and it's important to wait for the right timing for instance now with the very high energy prices is maybe it's not the time you know but i want to comment something Maria Desa said that that you are very flexible or very quick in the answer we are very quick as we're in the answer compared with it comes with a person with the microphone to the speaker and we one of our elements is that we don't go into the detailed regulation this is impossible because it will be impossible i mean we have firms from different sectors we just go to the objectives positive messages and you know great policies and in that because we all agree on these policies we have to put a price on carbon but we don't go we need to put on price of carbon or 65 euros or six per ton no because this will start a debate so we are very rapid in the in the i'm very flexible in the in the answers from the government for us the main challenge now is implementation and the view of more conservative political parties so we are doing a great effort in in spain with the more conservative parties linking the climate crisis with the energy crisis i think this is a very important driver because the origin of the crisis is the same energy model based on fossil fuels and the solutions are the same so there is a part of the society do know that will support that for the energy crisis that are not so convinced about climate crisis so i think is is an important driver and things are moving forward very fast and hurry maybe so in isolation and things like that and because of the energy prices so the decarbonization is going fast not just for energy crisis for so to to link to know our objective to the changing objectives of society i think is very important to be flexible thank you brilliant thank you and actually you brought up a good point there around the fact that actually you know what we're looking at the is these being leadership groups and so actually you know they're not i mean we certainly i mean it may be different for jclp or siljo chile on some areas but certainly our own leadership groups that's what we're trying to do is we're trying to look at actually what is the gap in leadership at a government level and actually what is the direction of travel and you know as long as we can see that direction of travel then we will look at okay where you know where are the other gaps where do we need to push so therefore having an overall target is one of the first things but then actually what are the kind of the next level in terms of the leadership that is needed and certainly yeah i mean this is you know being talked out as an implementation cop the next one will be even more so and i think that's where it's important as well for you know corporate leaders groups to actually show that leadership which kind of comes onto my next question which is around the members themselves we talk about these being corporate leaders group ourselves we have membership criteria that means that we're you know we require them require all of our members to actually have really strong commitments you know now be part of the race to zero and ideally going beyond that as well but we also ask them to have really strong sustainability strategies to kind of not be coming out they can't be coming out with any conflicting messages so there's a strong due diligence process that we go through and the other members have to accept them as well and so therefore our members are undertaking you know what we consider leadership actions and i was wondering whether you can talk about your own members in terms of the leadership actions that they're taking that you're seeing and actually how they're operating in terms of what they're delivering so kohori come to you first thank you yes it is I agree that we have you have to have a strong commitment but I said 225 companies but we do have separate tier sort of within the group and not every single 225 company can come up with the highest stringent commitment but we do want them in utility companies you know big companies we want them in we don't want to lose them so we have about I think 30 companies is it it could be for 30 plus companies that are in the first year there are the the leaders of the whole industry wherever they are in they're really committed to the zero much faster than the 2030 well they are committed the zero in 2050 but somehow 2040 2035 or so on so and we expect one of the things that we expect from our members in that first tier is for them to announce that to publicly announce that they are going beyond whatever the nation is and that gives the whole other industry other companies and the government a stronger message that well some companies can are willing to do that more than the average or whatever so that's one thing that we ask our our our leader companies to do brilliant thank you I'm going to come to you next Gonzalo because obviously you're within a company at the same time and so therefore you you're running you know the Spanish Green Grail through your president of it but at the same time you're also a member of the actually the the european and UK corporate leaders groups through a bedroader and scottish power so I mean you know how I mean obviously you can talk about your own leadership but obviously how do you work within the other members of your group in terms of you know the leadership they're undertaking or kind of what you're seeing or the members you know how they are members of the group how they are members of I think it was very important that this revision of the bylaws and when we reviewed the bylaws we state that there were objective was to move from a fossil economy to a renewable economy but this was very clear state so as a result some companies left the group because we have very clear positions and we didn't like it at the beginning as you say because we're bad I think it was a good decision for them and for us because we have a more clear views so maybe in your position you are you cannot be so clear but we can be extremely clear we don't want fossil fuels we don't want subsidies for fossil fuels we have to move for renewables renewables are more competitive so we have very strong messages so this revision of the of the bylaws was very important and now we are facing a situation where a lot of companies when want to join the group the fees are really low but we are in a process of reviewing which are the best ones but at the same time we are looking for firms in sectors that are not represented for instance food agriculture business that are more close to society so now for instance in our board we have winery a wine company everyone knows this wine company so it's good because it's not like a utility or whatever it's something very so we're in this process of on the ones on the one hand selecting the most appropriate and on the other hand looking for firms that we think are good for for our group brilliant thank you Gonzalo and Teresa I'm going to put the question to you slightly differently in terms of your membership I mean you know that obviously you've got two of your businesses here and it's really great that you know having them involved in the conversations at COP and I know they've been involved in other conversations that we've had I mean what do they also see as the value of being part of you know your CLG but also being able to connect to other CLGs as well I will answer your question but let me say something regarding the previous one because the story in Chile is quite different from Japan and Spain I mean we are a developing country still I mean it's an OECD country but we are a bit behind so for instance just to give you some numbers only 60 percent of our firms are raised to zero and for us for Chilean a race to resilient is something super important that we haven't talked here and none of the firms have signed for race to resilient yet okay so we have a lot of targets goals you see the fly comes from the speaker and that's very important so for that and now I will link it to the following question we need to work together okay we cannot work in an isolated term so it's not compulsory to be raised to zero to join because we understand that is very difficult another detail that I want to say is like only 60 percent of our firms are Chilean okay not multinational okay because for a multinational I don't want to say that it is easier but they may be I mean in advance you know compared to the Chileans so and then many of the Chileans have also in fact I have two Chilean companies here which are raised to zero so that's outstanding okay so having said that now I go to you just to have a bit more context what is the value to belong at CLG Chile is to work together okay we cannot work in isolation yeah we need to work together and that's why I've said that we need to involve other industrial sectors but also we need to involve the supply chain we need to green our supply chain yeah and that's the only way that it's going to happen but I don't know if it's a difference or not compared to you but we have the climate change law so that helps us a lot I mean no firm have left CLG because we comply with the law you know so I mean it's like you cannot run away there is a law yeah and there is a commitment so everybody has to comply yeah obviously if you are in under the race to zero you have to be but if I mean based on science science based target and you have shorter and medium tier commitments which makes it better and you know more robust but in the end is by law you know I mean we are committed not only to the Paris Agreement but to the net zero by 250 by law and that help us a lot yeah but again to come back to the point why to to be part because we need to work together we need to interact with the government as a group that's very important we need to work in each of the industries downstream and upstream yeah and getting to learn from others experience getting to be able to share with others that help us a lot okay so we have a stronger voice but there is a lot to do yeah still to do yeah to be done thank you and it's um yeah and I have to say I didn't mention race to resilience actually because it's very we find it very you know our businesses aren't necessarily also signed up to it because there's not an easy route in and I think that's something we're looking at is actually how do you bring resilience together with net zero to make sure businesses are actually tackling both and I suppose my final question to you all because we are coming to the end of the time for this panel is you know what do you see as the value of being part of a global network and therefore being part of a kind of relaunched CLN Gonzalo maybe I'll go to you first sorry can you say it again so what do you see I thought you was gonna be the first sorry I didn't give you a thinking time what do you see as part of the value of being a global part of the value yeah global network yesterday we had a very good conversation with the Japanese group and I think just sharing these experiences among us is so valuable that definitely just today we were talking of having more conversations political conversations on facing for instance the last thing I want to say is that we are launching a lot of alliances in implementation so we are working a lot with environmental working groups NGOs and with local communities because we are seeing a growing social opposition to the development of green solutions in a big scale when you come to you know some renewables everything is okay but when you go to big fast installations and so on and so for instance I would like yesterday we were talking about that big alliances with other people and I would like to know of experiences with alliances so I think it will be extremely valuable so I think from this conversation I'm sure we need to to go further and to spend time you know having these conversations maybe in person you know it's so important maybe visit in Chile or or Japan we can go to Japan next time but extremely valuable for us Rene Cahoria I'm going to come to you next I totally agree with what Gonzalo said just ahead but if I can add just one thing if it's of course we get ideas share ideas collaboration yeah yes but more than anything from this COP this week we the Japanese team that we have we have about like 20 delegates and the biggest thing that we earn was the moral support because if you being activist in activist in Japan it gets very depressing some time to time because it seems like it's going to go nowhere but coming here and talking to you and everybody I can go back home thinking knowing that okay this was this is the right way to go so that's what I get brilliant thank you Teresa I think alliances are the key solution and there is no way we will be able to do it alone and and not only among the private sector but the private sector with the different you know the public sector the NGO sorry the communities local communities etc at the territory I mean in the end our firms are located in a territory and again coming back to the situation of Chile Chile is a country that is extremely vulnerable to climate change so for us adaptation is super important that's why race to resilience is a big issue for us and therefore alliances I mean try to understand our territory where we are located trying to work together we are all part of the solution I mean we are part of the problem but we are part of the solution too so we need to work together yeah and I think really that's the kind of key takeaway from me as well because I feel like there hasn't been enough opportunities actually happen so quickly and as as I think you know Jessica we'll hear from said it's crazy you know it's like but actually making sure we use this as opportunities to come together and to collaborate and hopefully we'll be doing a lot more that as the CLN now in terms of actually kind of looking at conversations and the convening that we do I'm going to hand back to Elliot now so thank you very much the panelists and I think we're now going to hear from another panel indeed thank you thank you Bevan thank you to to to that panel I hope you all found that as insightful and useful as I did really good exploration of the kind of groups that we want to work with and the way that they've operated and the value live on stage of being able to compare and contrast experiences so I think that's really good now next up so we've we've run a panel of business groups and now we want to run a panel of businesses so if I can invite Harry Vajar Julie Murad and Jessica Lopez from Banco Estado to come and join me on stage and we can start to have a conversation about what it's like I mean we already started it in the previous conversation but what it's like to be a business in one of these groups what the role of business is and how business can be a kind of key contributor in in this journey towards a net zero climate neutral sustainable future I've sort of I've already briefly introduced you but maybe if I could just start by going down the panel getting you to say a few words about yourself and sort of some of the ways that you've been involved in this agenda and then we can and then we can start the conversation from there okay thanks Elliot thanks all of you for being here so I'm Harry Vajar with Signify so this is the new name since four years so not that new of Philip Lighting because we went through an IPO but we are the world leader in lighting and actually I started our climate program the end of 2003 so when I came back from Latin America having worked there with a lot of pleasure but then yeah I also felt it's really clear that there's no win-lose on climates of there's no let's say there's no win-lose if somebody thinks they can win another can lose in the end we all lose we're all in the same boat so my view is really that you have to lead the future you have to lead the creation of the future that we really need together and that is what we try to do as a company we still try to do that because a lot more is needed mostly on energy efficiency but also we're working with others together because we know that we need to double yeah the pace of actually every domain efficiency, renewal, electrification and so forth so yeah really also as was mentioned in the previous panel head then yeah I believe really in stronger together so you have a stronger voice the logic fits in a nutshell and that's why it's great to work together with all of you Hi there my name is Julie Morad and I'm with Salesforce I'm part of our nature and international team for those of you who might not know Salesforce it's a software company we work with thousands of companies around the world to connect them with their customers whether they are non-profits private companies public sector you name it and for Salesforce we're really committed to this vision of a net zero nature positive future for people with people being at the crux of that and supporting livelihoods and that's why we're part of groups like JCLP and CLG Europe and UK which I'm a part of and represent Salesforce on so really excited to have this conversation here with you all today Gracias My name is Jessica Lopez I'm president chairwoman of Banco Estado Banco Estado is a state-owned bank in Chile it's a commercial bank is the biggest bank in Chile and I'm a little bit confused because one week in the COP can make you crazy I'm not a person from from this ambience but so I'm learning a lot and I'm going back home tomorrow very confused in some things but very clear in others but I have to say that I'm convinced that this is a thing that we all have to work and work together no way often any individual thing Teresa Jessica when we heard from Teresa how net zero is part of the legal landscape in Chile what are some of the ways that Banco Estado is kind of trying to deliver on that agenda well formally we have to we have to prepare a plan and to reduce emissions and all that stuff but I'm I think that because of our condition of state bank we have a bigger responsibility because we are the biggest bank we are the bank of the people I mean 16 million people of 19 million inhabitants are our customers so I think that we not not only have a responsibility but a big opportunity and we're of course we're working in in very different not different but different paths one has to do with our own emissions the other that's more than 90 percent of the problem has to do with the finance emissions that means the emissions of the companies that we lend money or the the papers the investments that we buy in our portfolio that we have in our portfolio so I think that we have a lot of opportunities to to move the thing in Chile because we want because it's important and I think we have some power to to push that thank you and Julie you talked you talked about Salesforce's commitment and its mission in this agenda could you make that concrete to us could you talk about some of the specific actions that you take as a company absolutely so this has been a very exciting year for Salesforce we've been on our sustainability journey for more than a decade now but this year we added sustainability as a value to the company so we have a set of core values trust customer success innovation quality those have been our values for quite some time and the company is very rooted in them but this year we added sustainability as a value which was huge for our team and is really comes after many years of working on sustainability and when we add sustainability as a value that means the entire company operationalizes it which is super important especially as we think about climate change and all the whole suite of actions that we need to take to make a difference and so at Salesforce we're committed to this net zero nature positive vision but what does that actually mean it means focusing on three key priorities net zero nature positive and energizing the ecopreneur revolution so as it relates to net zero we are a net zero residual emissions company today we are actively reducing our own emissions as fast as possible have a climate action plan that details how we're doing that we are offsetting any remaining emissions that we cannot abate now with high quality carbon credits a lot of those focused on nature based solutions so touching on the potential to impact or influence a nature positive future and we're thinking about how can we do what we do best as Salesforce right every company thinks about that and our superpower is transnational technology we have thousands of customers in every industry as I said and we've created a product for them net zero cloud to help them manage and measure their footprint and make actionable decisions to help them get to net zero faster so that's one of the things we're doing we're doing a lot in the nature space around we've been a founding member of 1T.org with the world economic forum and set our own target around 100 million trees which we are actively making progress on and I think the reason behind the nature focus is nature and climate are inextricably linked and in order to achieve net zero we have to focus on nature we have to and that's been a gap in a lot of corporate programs today it's been a gap in a lot of the climate conversations and it's been really exciting this week to see nature brought up more and more at COP 27 and we're excited to continue that conversation into COP 15 and lastly ecopreneurs there's a lot of incredible solutions out there this goes back to livelihoods there's a lot of incredible folks that have great ideas and we're working with Uplink as a founding sponsor of that with the world economic forum as well to help accelerate those 50,000 ecopreneurs on the platform to create the solutions for climate change Brilliant, thank you and maybe the same question for you, Harry so if you can talk about some of the practical actions Yes, let's say that most of what we're trying to do is then yeah, let's say for the whole agenda on climate change to advance that so we're not so much in the business of advertising what we do but we do find it really important to work the talk so something just before actually in March 2007 the European 2020 program came out had to save 20% on emissions 20% of the bills were 2020 we also felt at the end of 2006 that we needed to put a stake in the ground in the lighting sector so we're then called for the global phase out of Incarnation Lightbulbs well today that's sheer logic but at the time that was two thirds of our sales volume and also more or less two thirds in pieces of the global lighting business and we were getting the lighting sector along so GE, Osram and all the others but they were not yet that convinced as we were so when we made this call for action first that they grumbled a little bit we got them along but what was important is this really solidified the direction of the lighting sector essentially stating at that time all of the existing business can go because we need to move to efficient and eventually what is happening today to LED solutions I think that was a really important moment because from that day on till last year also the electricity consumption by lighting reduced from 19% so almost one fifth of global electricity consumption was lighting 19% to 13% last year and it will be 8% in 2030 so and we do that not let's say to get a pet on the back or to be in the news but because it's very much needed and the second thing that we did was also in 2015 when let's say the Paris cop took place nobody knew that the Paris agreement would come out so we were all very happy but then before that cop we also felt jammed we again we need to make a statement so then we launched a commitment to become carbon neutral in five years time by 2020 and we did that on the middle friday also on purpose on that day because we knew in the weekend the government delegations will come in and then on that friday so when he issued the press release I was there with the CEO he presented us but then I also I sent it to Christiana Figueres I sent it to the World Bank I sent it to the UN to Achim Steiner well to all those people to the IEA so and afterwards I heard from Christiana that said yeah this really helped had to get the last few countries across the bridge because she could show like there are companies that are doing this and they can do it actually rather quickly and we did it so in 2020 we were carbon neutral and not let's say and actually also by reducing our emissions by 70 percent and moving to PPAs globally actually also as a detail and that's relevant in Europe 25 percent of our footprint is in Poland and in Poland we are completely powered by wind energy so also in Poland we show this to the government as I think these are really things that you need to do together so what can you do leading your sector to lead the way because the whole sector needs a transition so you compete for the same future and then also work together in the bigger community with renewables and all the others but then also as I mentioned we believe in actions also now with the european green deal with the what became to be the infrastructure act the chinese 14 five-year plan we launched the program called green switch and we're running this out globally so it also there we work with companies we work with cities because that's where carbon neutrality happens it doesn't happen in the ministry it actually the cities and companies that have those buildings that have those street lighting assets in our case and so that's also also to turn this into action to turn us into real results and also there we know this is a triple win for the quality of living environment let's say for the economy and that means it's not only the national economy or the household economy or the cities economy but also our economy I think in that sense as companies I think also the tide is a bit changing this is also a legislator wants to make successful regulation we want to do successful business but all for the same goal so for mitigation let's say for creating an ambient environment that is still livable yeah now in the coming decades so Julie and then Jessica I want to pick out a couple of threads in what Harry said and also in the previous panel and ask you about them so one of the stories I heard from Harry there was firstly about leadership within business so you know you explicitly talked about being sort of differentiated within your sector but also how business can work to try and prompt change and is that a story and I think that was also captured in the last panel we talked about like the membership criteria in the corporate leaders groups we talked about how working together is about it's about more than changing the businesses but it's about changing the wider context is that a story that you recognize Julie and how do you feel Salesforce takes part in that journey some fun music around us yeah exactly oh okay I totally think that that story resonates it's absolutely true we need the enabling environment around companies around business to enable you know it was mentioned before that certainty within policy companies need that to make decisions and we have some really ambitious and progressive companies out there right now that can take more forward-looking action and that just kind of creates this great virtuous cycle that is really important but collaboration is absolutely critical so I think one of the great benefits we've seen in being in the group is just that exposure to other sectors to our many of whom who are customers as well it's really interesting and there's a lot to learn from one another so that it isn't just tech companies fighting for this one thing right we're all I think really well aligned you know I'm a member of CLG Europe CLG UK that's the group that I'm most present in and I feel like we are really aligned in that vision and it's not a static vision I think the end goal remains the same but we've been having some great conversations recently about how do we progress the future of this group so that it does remain ambitious so that it does continue to meet the demands of today with the energy crisis in the EU as well so it's been a real pleasure to be part of that group and I think for us what's been helpful is we've published our policy priorities which have really helped to kind of centralize our own internal view as Salesforce around what are we trying to advocate for so a bit more specific and that complement of what we as a software company would like to see for the future as well as how that meshes with the higher ambition of these these groups is really powerful and has been really instrumental and in terms of us engaging in policy in the regions where we operate Brilliant thank you and maybe if I can move down to Jessica again this this example of business leadership and how it can change things would be love to hear about it from your perspective I need you to repeat the question because I can't follow Sorry I should talk Too quick I do apologize and actually given that we're trying to you know broadcast this then there may be other people who are struggling with that as well so this is a very good good note that you give us so I was just saying how in this conversation there are two dynamics so one is how some businesses can be more ambitious than other businesses and that's really important and the other one is how business can how those leading businesses can prompt change beyond themselves but in the wider economy and I was asking is that something do you recognize those dynamics and how are they how do they seem from your perspective well in the case of a bank I think that more than 90 percent of the of the the the problem is in our clients our customers like here Suki Mitch is the leading world company in mining and chemicals and so he he's the problem not me I mean that that that our finance the missions are the only way that we can deal with that is working with our customers working with the communities in the territories because we speak here but things happen in the territories in the cities in and there are the municipalities the people that live the people that work the companies the presence of the state the social organizations of diverse types so in our case in the case of the bank more than others company I think the the thing has to do with the customers so it sounds like collaboration is one of the key things for you collaboration working together is more than collaboration we have to agree in how we move or they move so it it it's a completely truly true in our case and I also wonder so Julie talked very clearly about how for her company she's been seeing more and more how the climate crisis and the nature crisis need to come together and I think you talk as well about the so the social dimensions do you see these different angles of people nature and climate change coming together more absolutely especially in our country in our country we are very vulnerable to climate change to the this is beside the earthquakes and all of that is our daily nature but we are very vulnerable we have us beside that we have a geography that's very special challenging and we in in our case in Banco Stados case we are a bank that has a territory presence all over our country so we're part of each of those communities each of those we have in Chile we have 345 municipalities well we work with 250 of them and and when you analyze what how a municipality moves I mean what they does what they do what they do what they do how they work with the people there's down there is a a network of financial movements that is is there all day long and we are there so this thing of working in a community where it has to be all all the ones that are in the territory it's one of the things one of the insights I get here absolutely and maybe if I come back to to Julie so I mean we've just excuse me so much that I'm I'm going to look because we have just finished our strategic declare our strategic statements but this thing that the sustained sustainable as a value that's good I like it I think I'm gonna push it that's why we're we're sales for customer good I hope you make sustained sustainability of value I love that take it should be all of our values absolutely and it's great to see international collaboration and learning happening on on the fly there so that that's not pun unintended actually we do their customer of ours which is great we love collaborating with our customers good stuff I was going to ask you so we heard from Jessica I think a perspective from the Chilean context you are you know working in the UK and European context but for a US company how do you how important do you find the local context of these conversations we're talking about international collaboration but I think there's a big piece about learning in terms of how what works in different places the local context is really important I'm also an American working in London so didn't grow up in the EU didn't grow up in the UK and I think one of the greatest values for sales force of all of our trade associations and one that I definitely find in my work is the real expertise that you all at CLG have and the network and the connections that you are able to make and bring to the group is really phenomenal for many reasons one year experts which is great but sustainability teams are generally pretty lean and at sales force you know we have a solid team but there's always more work to be done and having a trade group like CLG Europe and UK really helps us to scale our work and do so in an impactful way identify opportunities where we actually really will have impact and without you know it just helps us do more which is always a good thing so I think that's a huge huge value add for us in the group and there's real power also in coming together as a cohort of companies from multiple sectors wanting to progress certain issues I think that that's something where we've seen power in numbers we've seen that with you know the recent movement around mandatory climate disclosure both in the US as well as in the EU and UK we've seen that last year with ambitious NDCs and businesses being able to unite and push governments towards those ambitious commitments in advance of COP26 so many many benefits of working together as a group and some real inspiration as well almost got at that time Harry bring this back to you so I mean I presume that this this story of value in collaboration is one that you recognize maybe you could talk a little bit about that but also about what you think some of the common goals that can arise from working together might be yes I'm glad to do it but also a little bit on local contacts I think making things fact-based and giving them local contacts is really relevant because then also people see what is the potential what can be done so for instance when we worked in 2006 2007 on all this lighting transition in Europe we said there were actually four factors at play so energy saving climate change security of energy supply and economic angle through jobs and in Europe we played on all four but we highlighted the climate angle in the US at the same time we also played on all four but we were less vocal on climate but more on energy security and things like that so that became then a chapter in the energy independence and security act so in a way you can see sometimes had on a high level and with politics and media things may look different but then if you look below then yeah you need to do the same things how to achieve all those benefits and I think in maybe in that way also when you look at how do we collaborate there are many things that we can look at in an integrated way so how do certain technologies interact if you save more energy there's more electricity to charge cars or to electrify heating if you work as different sectors together how you can really show like hey this is cross-sector so all this all this remark said that we're here now fewer and fewer and that business is not in favor of this are then yeah actually this resulted in those going away because then governments could see at national level European level and global level that this is really an innovation agenda and the future depends on that so innovation is in that sense it's very much needed but it's also the race that we've been internally in and that has provided benefits and economic growth and in this case they're much smarter resource efficient climate friendly more economical so maybe yeah those are the few points I think that are relevant for you have all of us working together thank you Harry and can I put a similar question to you Jessica can I ask you about some of the the goals that you have together when you're working with with your fellow companies in Chile with CLG Chile what are the some of the things that bring you together that you're trying to achieve well we we are in CLG we work in we are working also with the global compact we signed a race to zero commitment and I think that the the value of getting together to talk about this about this exchanging experience for example last night we were in a dinner and I was in a table with two ladies that works in banks so we and I think we're all learning in this process so to have the possibility to share with a bank that has has worked first and asked and and know their experience it's very valuable to share practices so I think that's that that is one of one of the good things that we work together so I'm very committed to go back to Chile and to work to try to work with the other banks because we we are we used to compete too much so who's the best who's who's in front of the race and we're talking about very important things and but that has we have to change some some thing that makes that all all the banks in Chile can sit and work together in this and I think it's important so I'm I'm going to talk about this when I go back I think maybe I'll go with the last question to each of you which is about almost finishing where you started I'd like to ask you about your experience of COP 27 you started what you're saying you it was very confusing and I'd like love to hear more about that some of the things that you've learned and some of the things that you'll take home from the conversations that you've been able to have here well this is my first COP I I learn or I realize a sense of sense of urgency that I hope that I I beg that that doesn't disappear when I arrive to Chile and we get in the business and we forget and I think that the logistic is a challenge because it's too big for 40 000 people here there's too many activities impossible to to to have a sense of all I don't know if too many organizations it's very confusing who is who it's related to who too many too many information and some cliche phrases that we hear everywhere and so it's it's for me it's confusing but I think that's it's a very important experience yes thank you that's great to hear and I hope I agree with you I hope that level that understanding of urgency stays with us all when we go home so I think it's a really important important message Julie maybe if I could ask the same question of you sort of some of the things that you know you're hoping from the rest of the conversation here at COP 107 the things that you might take home what are your perspectives on on these couple of weeks absolutely uh there are a lot of people here there's a lot to do for sure I definitely agree with that and I think that is one of the joys of being here is you have some really energizing conversations that just don't happen over zoom or just meeting with people in person is is unparalleled so it's it's really energizing and that it's also against a backdrop that is incredibly serious and fraught with complication and I think we're not seeing the you know there's there's challenges um that we still need to overcome I think what I'm leaving with is a feeling that businesses here businesses committed we will remain committed and committed means action I'm seeing a lot of action and I think we need to see more action absolutely um I think on a personal level I'm as I said excited by the amount the increase in nature related conversations I'm seeing here we have CBD the biodiversity COP coming up in December I know a lot of people are focused on how do we keep the momentum from COP 27 to COP COP 15 in Montreal um so I'm excited to do that and feel like there have been some really valuable connections made here to to help that happen great and Harry same question to you sorry now I'm taking two things with me so one is even a stronger commitment to contribute to doubling the speed of action because that's what we need so let's also take away what we can do ourselves and the second thing I take away is is hope that we can also work more together also north south developed emerging developing countries and I hope that our leaders who've been here and one is now actually speaking we know that they have sufficient leadership capabilities to look beyond a lot of issues that are on the table like loss and damage and so forth to really keep on so not to not slow down this process but to really look beyond that and to see like hey they're here they've been elected if they don't make it then we know the risk is that things will get worse that plays into populism then you get the wrong people and then it gets even worse so I really hope that our leaders have sufficient leadership capabilities to look beyond that and to make the north south or whatever you want to call it that connection really stronger I'm gonna note that I thank you all all three of you for all your contributions I'm gonna note in that last round that we heard urgency action and urgent action so I think that's really really clear and really really important but also hope and connectivity and I think you know these are all really important themes that we'd like to take forward with the corporate leaders network project so it's that aim of being able to prompt collaboration being able to prompt lesson learning and comparison of different experiences in different countries so that we can support action at a greater speed at a greater level of ambition than it might have had otherwise and so I think that's going to be really valuable really appreciated everybody's engagement with this both in the room both panels have been excellent and also online for everybody who's been able to follow that follow us in that way for those of you who are here you have the bonus so this is this is you have to you have to experience the the flies and the the air conditioning and the noise levels but you can join us for a reception now where you can join us for a drink so please do do that for those of you are online you know you've got the the the opposite side of that bargain but thank you very much everyone and it's been a great conversation and we look forward to continuing this conversation with you all thank you


Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. I am Veerun Kumar and today we are going to talk about the role of visual communication, the role of creative posters, agitation propaganda posters in popular struggles and working class struggles across the world. We are going to look into the history of it and what lies ahead. To talk more about this, we are joined by Tinks, who is a visual designer with Trikontal Institute of Social Research. Tinks, welcome to People's Dispatch. Thank you for having me. So, Tinks to start with Trikontal Social Research, Trikont recently came up with a dossier looking into the visual communication and popular struggles, especially talking about the auspal posters, which contributed a lot to the global struggles, the anti-imperialist, anti-colonial struggles across the world. Can you talk more about this dossier and the work which you have done in that? Okay, so maybe just a slight step back about where this dossier is coming from and that is related to also where the Trikontal Institute for Social Research is coming from, is from its very name speaking back to this history of the conference that occurred in 1966 in Cuba, trying to unite the Trikontinents, so the Latin America, Asia, and Africa, and its anti-colonial struggles. One of the things that emerged out of this is the Trikontinental magazine, including there's also the bulletin, which is more news-oriented. But the dossier that we're focusing on looks a little bit at the visual production, not only of the magazine, but the poster productions of the auspal, which is the organization of solidarity with the people of Asia, Africa, and Latin America. And for anyone who's ever had the opportunity to hold a copy of this Trikontinental magazine that was you know, analysis, some theoretical texts, some exchanges between the anti-colonial struggles across the global south. There's something that I think is very immediate about why these magazines are important. You look at the quality of its publication, you look at the visuals that are diverse in various styles, not so much traditional to the kind of socialist, communist, what was hegemonic in the visuals of the time. And also you look at the poster production inside, so there's a little folded piece of poster that is in every issue. And you start asking some questions about how is this produced, and for what purposes it was produced, and who was producing it. And especially one of the point that the auspal posters used to go across the world to various struggles and it used to inspire, and the auspal posters were themselves inspired by these struggles. Exactly, so many of these were internationalists in nature, responding to the needs and the struggles of the time, but they reached a circulation of 50,000 copies per issue. So these were going to countries all over the world. And we have to understand in the moment that Cuba, where this publication is being produced, was under embargo and has been since then. So in terms of material constraints, or including paper, something to think about the material conditions of producing these actual posters and publications is severely restricted. Almost all the paper is important to Cuba, for instance. So to get this kind of volume and have that kind of political commitment to share internationalist news and art for people's struggles is immense, I think, inspiration. And at the same time, with one of the artists from auspal, and many, many different kinds of artists that joined the struggle, was saying that the track consensual magazine and the poster became a way for the Cuban message and the ideological program to be spread around the world where Cubans couldn't go, where diplomats and militants couldn't go. So many of these posters and publications became the voice of the Cuban Revolution. One point which is interesting about auspal is that many of the founding members of auspal, or the artists who joined auspal, were actually people who were engaged in advertisement business, who were working in the advertisement business in the United States. And they had used the advertising techniques in their auspal posters. So this is something which we want to elaborate a bit. Yeah, so I think this was one of the big revelations during this research, is that it's not kind of accidental or something essentially Cuban in the form of the production, but very much speaks its time. So we're talking about in the 1940s and 50s, Cuba had already been a bit of a darling, let's say, of U.S. capital. So a lot of the pushing of multinational corporations in Latin America, particularly in Cuba, but also in terms of the control of the media landscape. So a lot of what we know about today in terms of advertising, like market research, testing products on people, how to see consumer feedback, these things are very much tested in the laboratory of Cuba and on the Cuban people. So there was a very developed means of communication that pretty much overnight in 1959 was taken into the revolutionary project. And this includes a lot of people who were actually trained in the belly of the beast, let's say, through the advertising schools, work through the advertising agencies, and took those skills and kind of turned it against empire itself by contributing to the revolution. So when you look at some of the quality and study some of the quality of the posters and kind of carefulness and sophistication in terms of how much thought went to it, you can see how some of these particular strategies are kind of used towards the revolutionary cause, which is very fascinating. And I think it kind of begs the question for many of us who do visual work on the side of social movements with and for people's struggles, is what are the skills we need today? And how do we turn them towards advancing people's struggles? Because we also live in an age where there's a lot of particular expertise around visual knowledge, around technology, around how things are produced, that we need to harness and turn them against empire itself. There's the saying goes which is that communication is not just about information, it's not just about informing people, it's also about inspiring people. So we see that during that era of what you call as the Cold War era or where there were the numbers, there were numbers of anti-imperialist and anti-colonial struggle. We see various kind of visual communication by popular struggles, whether it's the agitational propaganda posters from Soviet Union or Ospal. We see that there is a kind of inspiration which these posters bring in. But at the same time, which you also talk in your dossier is that both Soviet Union posters and the Ospal posters had some differences in terms of its visual style. Can you talk more on that? Yeah, so I think it's exactly what you said. The kind of dominant and hegemonic socialist imagery at the time was what was called socialist realism that you see and some of the Chinese and Soviet examples that were usually painted in much more realistic style, many things around the proletariat, factory workers, the peasantry and really ennobling, let's say, who are the protagonists of revolutionary classes. You look at the Cuban experience, you don't see that. You don't see the traditional factory workers. You don't see the kind of blood, sweat, and tears of the peasants in the imagery themselves. I don't think it's necessary, I mean, we'll say, trigger by reference is a strong condemnation and so did Fidel around what they would call realism at all costs because they thought that that would be constraining the possibility and imagination of a revolution that was taking place and trigger by a really beautiful quote saying that the socialist realism and I have here would be putting a straight jacket on the artistic expression of the people who are being born and in the process of making themselves. So there was an openness in the Cuban experience to have artists explore styles and new forms that actually both artists didn't have the privilege of doing in the commercial art world and working under the multinational advertising agencies nor in the socialist tradition. So new forms are really being elaborated. So when you look at the styles, there's always current at the time in terms of more commercial art you have psychedelic art, but then next to that you will also have some sort of pre-colonial iconography or looking at some of the African iconography and trying to bring new forms because this revolution was not only in its stages of becoming, but it needed to also take from the many, many, many traditions and histories we come from to creating forms. So I think there is something that is you can feel looking at the poster because of even a newness 60 years down the line, especially for those who make posters, make art, and you think wow imagine having that kind of openness to explore forms, make mistakes in the face of extreme constraints and extreme repression and attacks by empire from all sides. So this is really fascinating inspiring history to learn from for what we can do today. To talk more on the visual communication, we see that now we are in a digital world where digital platforms are growing, people are more into digital modes of communication. One thing which we have seen in last 20-30 years is that somewhere the movements across the world, their investment in creating visual posters, creative visual posters, inspiring visual posters are somewhere reached a stagnation. Do you agree on this or you think that there is there is still kind of, or SPAL or the socialist realism kind of post, socialist realism kind of posters are still being created or new forms are being created among the movements? I would say absolutely, there's a kind of space I think that has been given up in terms of what is the fight of the visual over the visual in the battle of ideas. I know that we live in an age where we are inundated with visuals and in a way probably visual literacy is higher in many senses in terms of people's expectations of the quality just because of this inundation. But in the midst of that where the ideology is or where the political project is is unclear and I think it's a space, this dossier is also a bit of a provocation of how we can enter that battle and not give up the space of the visual because we have, this is certainly, for instance I'll use this example of the dossier, this is certainly a study of where we come from to understand a little bit about how over the process is what inspired this kind of production but it's not necessarily just remaining in a romantic we must do as the Cubans did. But for us it's a challenge to think how do we engage in this struggle today, the tools might look different, maybe not every struggle is on the street posts of what poster it is, it's maybe more on the phones and the computers in many parts of the world now. But where is the ideological belief that this is a worthwhile area for our struggles and how do we also bring back a lot of these people who are skilled as artists or desire self-trained or not and bring them to the side of the people's struggles and contribute their skills to people's movements. I mean I think it's a question and it's an open one that this dossier is trying to provoke and I think try continental and our network of designers and artists that we're trying to develop is also trying to invite what could that look like for us today, what kinds of forms of organization we need to do, how do we exchange our strategies and ideas. I think the challenge is also reflected when we see that in last 20-30 years how the capitalist industry has made propaganda as something which is negative but its own advertisement comes as something which is positive but what it does is the same, the propaganda and the advertisement does the same but how the whole capitalist world has been successful through visual communication in changing the narrative and saying that the capitalist idea of advertisement is positive. So I think this whole debate is also been reflected here. Exactly and I think I mean especially for those engaging in the English language to reclaim the word propaganda might be a good first step of saying I mean it is about exactly as you said it's about engaging in a field of ideas and engaging in that battle and a battle of the narrative and what is the idea and the project and what is possible. So call it advertising, call it propaganda, call it inspirational art or whatever you want to but the objective should be the same and I think one of the things that is great about projects like People's Dispatch is one of the things I learned about the Cuban experience is the contact that a lot of these artists had directly with people's struggles because it is not an abstract solidarity and we can talk about internationalism is not an abstract idea. It's an action, it's a verb, it's in practice and I'll give one example of the head of the propaganda department, René Medeiros. He was sent at some point during the Vietnam War for months to march alongside the revolutionaries on the Ho Chi Minh Trail so really toiling with the soldiers on the paths and he came back with a series of beautiful and paintings about what was the people struggle on the ground that kind of militancy and commitment and discipline we should think of you know artists in that way and how that kind of contact with people struggles maybe we don't all have to march for months on the ground but that direct contact with people struggles through and through avenues like you know People's Dispatch they're connecting us to the ground is that vitally important because there are projects that are being in the process of becoming as Cheydo is saying. So thanks to end this discussion let's look into the ospal posters again and the tricontinental dossier can you bring out some of the examples which you really think are close to you has really inspired you while doing this research I think one of the things that someone who's been making you know posters and designs for various kinds of movements for some time now what was really inspiring was learning about the process and the seriousness that these artists in in collaboration with the communist party that they were taking direction from in connection with different kinds of liberation struggles like I've mentioned and the kinds of exchanges around ideas and representations that existed is really fascinating and it's a kind of model and inspiration for us to think about today and how to bring back to our movements and regain that kind of seriousness in production posters why is this symbol something we are fighting over why this color why these fonts why do these things reach to people how do these communicate our ideology or a message or our program that kind of exchange and is fascinating and exciting especially when we think about the accelerated pace that production exists now we have a lot more tools most people can be designers with with a you know a simple cell phone in their hand or a piece of paper and pen you know there's the tools have really advanced and diversified but trying to create spaces where those conversations have happened are happening and dialoguing means we create better art that reaches reaches people in terms of the hearts their minds and and the project we are pushing forward so I think that's more of a general example and I hope we can take some of those lessons forward


It's been a great year, probably one of the best professional years that I've had. The diversity of opportunities that we have here at the Stebbin Clinic and Stebbin Philippan Research Institute are, I think, second to none. Came here wanting really three things to really become the best surgeon I could. Learned amazing techniques from the faculty here. Mentorship is another thing and now have several, several mentors that I can turn to really throughout the rest of my career. And then research infrastructure, so how to do things on a higher level and then how to integrate better with the team and so all those goals have been met. The faculty here has been incredible, whether it's been in the OR, in clinic, how to critically think about complex problems. Dr. Provencher was a previous mentor of mine. He was a faculty when I was a resident at Naval Medical Center in San Diego. He provided ongoing mentorship while here and of course was a great sounding board to have when discussing surgical cases, life matters, career matters to continue on in the military. Personally, this year's been great just to be able to live in the mountains in Colorado. It's going to be very difficult to leave and we would love to live in this environment again. We had a fellow ski day where the majority of us were out on the mountain skiing together and that was a great bonding experience for all of us. We did a rafting trip down the Colorado River. Definitely got soaked. It's like a Disneyland or Magic mountain ride times 10 because there's no control. I'd like to give a big thank you to my family, my wife, Alexa, who's traveled with me and kind of shared in this journey as we've moved to several different places. My kids Eliah and Ivy for tagging along and sharing in this adventure that we have. The year goes fast. I would take advantage of every opportunity here from the start so don't be afraid or shy to jump into a research project, ask a lot of questions. Don't forget to go outside. I hope to stay engaged with the Steadman Clinic and hopefully make a trip back at least once a year to meet with people and continue in cooperation.


Now, mourners of wave-in-white handkerchiefs, Kenneth's counter-straight-max symbol, gathered at the Lusaka Stadium for a state memorial service for Zambia's force president, who died last month at the age of seventy, ninety-seven, rather. A neatly distant and compliant with covered social distancing rules, scores of mourners stood on the terraces, dancing to dirges and solar music played by a military band. A hero of the struggle against white rule in South Africa, Kaounde died on the seventeenth of June at the military hospital where he had been admitted with pneumonia. He always carried a white handkerchief, an item that he said symbolized love and peace, and which he started carrying while incarcerated during the struggle for independence. A casket draped in the Zambian flag was driven on a gun carriage into the sixty thousand capacity national hero stadium, and placed under a white marquee. Foreign dignitaries in Lusaka to pay their respect include South African president Cyril Ramaphosa, Kenneth Uhuru Kenyatta, and Ghanas Nanna Akufwadao, as well as junior British foreign ministers James Dorridge, representing Zambia's former colonial ruler. Hello, hope you enjoyed the news, please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.