The intro Hey, there we are. Oh Do you have something now finally look at that? I hit the button a long time ago, but I was playing the intro I made that goddamn intro and I'm gonna use it. All right, you should Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions the weekly show recover the paragon remakes and ethereal and this week Not a lot going on just like last week not a whole lot of news We ended up getting quite a few things from uh from overprime But um we're gonna cover overprime then we'll talk about ethereal's new skin for Talos and then after that We're gonna get into the the the poll we did the the poll which I had more votes on that poll that I've had on any of The other ones talking about which game people are the most excited for or excited about However, you want to frame that I'm your host the man goose joining me as always are these two fine gentlemen starting with My friend Niko has jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I'm fantastic man goose happy to be here Happy to talk about all the stuff. I mean it feels like we're back in the old days of FTM where it's like Uh, we're making up more content that we're actually getting from these companies But no excited to be here nevertheless and excited to have Viking with us as well Welcome welcome back Viking. Thank you for continuing to have me I'm kind of hoping that this is like the quiet before the storm of the fact that we're gonna get like a game to play and I think a lot of the community is also Eagerly awaiting for that with this kind of lull even from our our friends overprime Which were they were kind of pumping out a lot of content, you know fairly regularly and now it's kind of eased back So I'm kind of hoping that that's like the big, you know wind up to finally punch us in the face with early access Because that's that's otherwise it's just a letdown and I'm gonna be upset with them Mangoes I was looking at your more a guest animation that's on screen right now Yeah, I thought for sure. She was smoking a joint. Oh, no, no, that's that's nezuko morguez.     I don't care about the size of my community I care about the quality of my community and that Really showed the quality of the community that we've been able to create and I just want to personally thank everybody out There for for keeping a cool head about that. So that was that was awesome Yeah, 100% like going through. I mean, there's like 43 or 49 comments on that post already a lot. Yeah And there was not one in there that I was like, well, that was a little bit toxic, right? Like that was like it was just and I know we give these communities a hard time for that in the past But that was really really cool to see for sure and even if they were a little bit negative They it was usually for comedic purposes and I'm completely fine with that as well. You know what I mean or it was constructive Yeah, there was one about fault like yes, they their communication sucks, right? But that but they're working on it or I want them to work on it I want them to get better and like it was it was constructive. It wasn't just toxic to be toxic. Yeah, I Actually, I think a lot of that good credit goes to this show as a whole Like I know I'm a newer member of this but like you you guys have been covering these games for a really long time and I'd like to believe that the people who are consuming this content in the end just want great games to play Right at the at the heart of all of this I think we all just are gamers and we want to play video games that are fun engaging and aren't a waste of our time And I think through the explanation and especially with all the content that's been recently coming out I think people who maybe weren't in one camp or the other can start to appreciate what the other camp is doing and to Jelly knees his point that he brings up all the time high tide raises all ships And I think with the tide rising from especially over prime and predecessor is really drawing more eyes It maybe we're overlooking those so they might still have their favorite and one camp or the other But they're not necessarily like that game is total trash And I can't even imagine you know ever setting foot into the loading screen now It's a little bit more of like become more of a preference. Yeah. Yeah, and and I and that's that's I think ideal for a Successor in this this category to succeed because you're going to need as many people coming in and trying your game as possible And so I think it's a credit to not only the studios to continue putting out great content But I again I give a lot of credit to shows like this that are really covering this and giving people you know more To really grasp on to and have I think more well thought out opinions rather than just like their gut reaction emotional feeling towards something So that was really really exciting to see so I'm excited to dive into those a little bit later on Yep We will get into that more after these updates of the star for the updates with over prime because they had by far the most news out of everybody, so They had an announcement in their discord that the discord will be down Well, they streamline it to make it more user friendly for everybody This was like I was telling jelly more of an announcement like you would have in school then like news or an update like the Library will be closed for But they also said something there was something originally about they were also going to announce a specific date But they removed that from that announcement. It seems because I went back. I went back to look I didn't see anything about a specific date Maybe one of you guys can look it up right now, but it will be announced before the renewal.  I'm just full of shit So apparently well, hopefully that specific date will be when early access is because we we do know that they're going straight into early access We they're not going to do another another test as far as they said that this revamp would happen by mid-october So we're officially in October. Welcome to pumpkin spice season and And but I mean mid-october is not that far away right like it's two and a half weeks So yeah, we get early access in two and a half weeks. I'll be jazzed. I know, right?  They just kind of released on their YouTube Which was a little odd for them, but um They still they came out there and somebody had to clue me in on them because they did not pop up in my feed So if you uh, if you like overprime and you like murdoch check out their their YouTube channel I should have a link for it in the description and check out those murdoch shorts for some murdoch action And the other thing I'm just gonna read through all of these. There was a shitload of stuff moved around on their on their Trello I'm only going to address the stuff that says fixed in next update So fix the next update custom game out game accessing animation application, whatever that is Golden XP acquisition UI improvements settings improvements player report system improvements battle result improvements hero profile icons 100 of them NPC health bar improvements hero footstep and landing sound improvements and Spectator mode sound improvements where I talked about this a little bit, but jelly. What's your impression of these? updates I Think they're fantastic. I think This shows that they're moving away from giant core gameplay systems and are now doing the more nuanced Things right things that take a little more finesse take a little more trial and error right that just are our Extra elements to the experience. They're not the core experience itself Viking what about you? Yeah, I think actually Mangoes hit the nail on the head before we hit play today and these are the polish updates These are the ones that I feel like are kind of the last little bit that need to be polished before you know, we're ready to start playing the game and You know, I'm excited obviously because it feels like that's where they've been kind of heading It seemed like the bigger projects kind of started to dwindle down and a lot of the Trello updates have been more of these What I would consider polish-esque so I Kind of agree with you know chat that probably by the end of the month We'll have either a release or some kind of announcement about releases coming Because this just seems like the kind of stuff that you would be working on as things are are you know finalizing so Man, I'm just excited. That's all I feel like this is like Just like the edging, you know of like are we really there like is it really coming and then I'm worried that it's not Like this is like we're totally off base right and we're making all these speculations and they're gonna be like yeah We're still thinking, you know, maybe the holiday season and I'm like So I mean we've been waiting for these games for so fucking long There's been so many times where I was like, oh, it must be coming right out right around the corner two years later, you know This does seem like as we've been tracking their Trello We've seen some major stuff in their Trello And this is all very like fine-tuning finishing touches and that's really nice to see that they're in that That finishing touches phase of game development. It seems there. I mean, there's not a lot in their in development category of Trello that I Mean it's gonna be a continuing thing there, but yeah sure touches It's it's pretty exciting to see and I'm uh looking forward to it a little apprehensive that like you said Maybe it'll it'll be a red herring, but um, I Generally don't think that's the case especially with the push like with their shorts and everything like that because I do watch the shorts And I think they're really neat at the end of it It's always talking about getting it on your wish list and I feel like they're really trying to push people to get that You know basically pre-download, you know ready So I just don't think that they would be pushing it that hard in that way If it wasn't something that was coming soon now granted what they consider soon might be months from now And my idea of soon is in the next month or two. So Um, you know, we could be up base from that regard But I just think with the kind of push that they're making it seems like they're trying to especially even with like the net marvel stuff Like on their own, you know, yeah With the PC stuff and like, you know really trying to say hey We're not just a mobile game company anymore. Look at this cool new PC game that we're making so This Scooby-Doo reference. Yeah Second time I've made a Scooby-Doo reference this week All right, you guys ready to move on to a thorough Ethereal Okay, that's that's your way, okay, I don't know you guys took the two ways Normally man goes you say it the right way Ethereal and then all right or something like that and then you know now you stole it speaking of Ethereal, I wanted to say that I appreciate levy continuing that Comments of your Yeah, yeah, it's a man brilliant. Yeah, ethanol. There you go. There you go. There you go So you just saw it on the screen. It'll come back. I swear. It was the dragon slayer tallow skin Jelly you want to tell us about this their skin? I mean, so this is gonna be the first new skin for tallows since his visual update, right? That this is since that got that change happened, right? We're kind of going forward with what new skins can we create for tallows with that at that new design in mind? And this is the first one being the dragon slayer tallows and this skin this and one other of his skin concepts That's coming down the line. Just blow me away for him that I'm Super super stoked to see these in game and be able to play that out No, it looks so good it pop back up again. Thank God. I know I was waiting for to come back around We meet we were blessed enough to be able to obviously see it when jelly shared it with us earlier And like I zoomed in a little bit and kind of the detailing in it is So cool So they even managed to catch that in a 3d rendering where you start to actually get some of the shadowing and the lighting and stuff like that on a more Video game style care. I'm just I don't know man. It looks sick the the axe in particular Bro, let's go dude. Like I don't even really like I didn't have a desire to play tallows Like I just seem like not my kind of character to play Looking at a skin like I believe in that I believe in it and aesthetics can bring somebody into wanting I want to play tallows just so I could walk around looking like the beefy dragon slaying Lord guy. I want to be him Look at that.  It's gonna appeal to the Monster hunter community I've always felt is very monster hunter.  What do you call it? I Bracers bracers bracers, that's probably the better word, but yeah, dude those look like old-school shredder bracers You know what I'm talking about from the the show. I don't know what I'm dating myself here The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles team wants to get in touch with us. We will make a shredder tallowskin I mean, I will I will make sure it gets 100% you think you are hi Rez All right, I mean, that's that's all we had for a three-year-old and unless you guys anything else you want to say about After all no, I think that's it for this week just to get another cool Concept coming out that yeah, I mean I'm so excited to show more of these as time goes on Like there's some really really good ones Right actually I'm as a just a small segue because I know eventually we'll talk about it in the discussion But like I was actually really impressed with the amount of people who came out for ethereal in this too like in their comments Like granted the other games seemed to grab a lot more of our attention a lot of times because ethereal is kind of way farther back in the development process But I've liked like this resurgence that it felt like you know that people are really really starting to come alive with Ethereal's development and and I think a lot of it has to do with the recent push to start showing off a little bit more of what The team's been working on and you know being proud of that work Which I think it's obviously shows how much effort and time and love is going into this game And so it's super super exciting. I know it's for me, you know, it's kind of came back at one point I was like it's barely even a concept of a game let alone a game game and now it's it's absolutely on the cusp of being Like a real tangible Thing and it's so exciting. It's a real boy Yeah, I mean yeah, I wouldn't that poll initially went out and ethereal was like number two or tied for number two There a couple hours at the beginning. I was like what the heck like I was like, yeah, go ethereal community That was cool to see for me and now it's kind of settled out with all the votes that have come in right but yeah It's still it was like that initial moment. I was like, okay, okay, and I agree think the comments of Like I I plan on playing predecessor, but ethereal piques my interest like that It's like a yeah, they register that concept of like ethereal is a little further out But it is still definitely present in mind for a lot of people. I think that's super cool I like Lionheart's comment, which will come first GTA 6 or ethereal Yeah, half life half life in there as well Yeah, yeah, which one's coming out first hey console or GTA 6, right? Yeah All right, well speaking of that poll let's let's move in and talk about these poll results Which is probably gonna be the rest of the show and I did record quite a few of the comments And we'll talk about some of those comments speak through some of those So as you can see predecessor took the lion's share, I mean way more than anybody else Seems like predecessor is still the fan favorite out of out of all the games that people are looking forward to playing overprime is At 18% though this used to be the last time I did this poll It was predecessor was the biggest and then I think it was next was fault and then it was ethereal and overprime So over overprime has really come up in in these numbers So after overprime you got fault at 10% ethereal at 8% and then also added the option Which seems to be pretty common anymore as people that have just they've moved on they they're they're tired of waiting for these games They don't even track them anymore.  So but predecessor has They took the lead after core went bye-bye and they have stayed in the lead ever since Yeah, absolutely And that's the crazy thing is that core used to be the the lion's share with predecessor down in the bottom and they've since come up with it and it's Exciting to see But I think there's also a lot of things we haven't seen from predecessor That I think will be interesting to see how the community reacts to it monetization being number one there. Mm-hmm. I I Well, I so I mean for me it just also I think a Predecessors to me feels like the one that's closest to what most people are gonna remember from Paragon And that's going to be at its benefit or its demise, right? Like that's and I think that's gonna be their struggle over prime has done a good job of you know Trying to separate itself from from that, you know From being a Paragon remake that that's just not what they're wanting their identity to be so Well, I do think that a lot of people are excited for it I also feel like that large of a share means that they could also be very very disappointed because I would imagine that people Who are still saying fault are holding on to that same idea is that it will this is the only Paragon that we have so I'm just gonna keep playing fault If they see that same thing in predecessor and it doesn't deliver to that Where these Paragon only guys going to go like these diehard? I'm a Paragon only player Where are you gonna go if predecessors not fitting that faults? Not really fitting it over prime is definitely not going to fit it so I worry that people who are like super into the predecessor camp are almost hurting themselves by not realistically Understanding the expectations that they're putting on to a studio that is obviously looking to have success beyond what Paragon did Because Paragon was a failing game and didn't make it and Predecessor didn't get all of this money and spend all this time to become a failing game So I'm hoping that that predecessor 57% vote is understanding of what they're getting themselves into and supporting because I don't think that that's a bad thing By the way, I think predecessor looks like it's gonna be a great game But it's it's not going to be Paragon 2.0 if it is then it's going to suffer the same issues that Paragon did So well that that's one of the comments that I actually didn't include on the list was somebody said that none That they chose none because none of them went with the old Paragon card system And which is just shows that there are people out there that are Deadset on just a straight-up resurrection of Paragon no matter what and that's fine. That's fine. If that's what you want That's not what you're going to get. I'm very sorry And and they said that they've moved on so that and that that's good because you're not going to get Just straight Paragon back so that's understandable if you really like the card system that much It was a very unique part of Paragon and it's definitely not being carried forward by any of these games Mm-hmm either card system either the card and gym system or the original card system that I enjoyed Man I really I want that card system back so the original legacy card system back so bad But I want it to be better. Don't like don't make it. They're locked behind loot boxes terrible, I even thought the concept of having of being locked into aspects or Affinities as they were called was kind of cool because it gave it gave you a kind of a balancing knob Like when phase was released.  I didn't like it that we were like they were locked behind stuff and you would you struggle to keep up with guys who had all the cards unlocked who you know for whatever reason and Yeah, it was frustrating to know that there's a better build out there But I just I don't have the cards to do it and so therefore I'm playing a worse game Then the guy who's you know on the other side of the lane for me So I didn't like it from that and also well It was really cool to have like all the choices and be able to kind of Make the system or make your build the way that you thought it would be best at the end of the day We all understand how gamers are they're gonna min max There's gonna be somebody who crunches the numbers and does the math and figures out This is the most optimal build build this every single time and that becomes the meta build And if you're not playing that build then you're playing a subpar build and you're therefore worse than everybody else And so it's just like so I don't really like I like creative freedom for people to be able to choose things But at the same time like as from a game dev It's probably impossible to realistically balance around and so it just makes sense to like you know what?  That's right. I'm a jiggaloo.  Oh my god. Anyway, let's get into some of these comments from people So actually real quick it's a comment that just got put in the chat um Pride is literally paragon 1.5 and the fact that it's in the new unreal engine brought in hype And I I agree. I think It the weirdness of epic promoting a paragon successor is is very strange in and of itself But that's a whole other thing, but I I've seen more and more comments thing that it is It is paragon 1.5. It is paragon 2 whatever it is And I I do think it's almost to their detriment Right. I wish that they pushed that bar A little further granted. We're seeing the their uh updated hero kits come out and they're Absolutely balls to the wall bonkers, but um I think they they are Leaning that way and I think predecessor over time has become more and more toward the v 42 style of paragon Rather than legacy paragon on a new map Which is how it kind of felt when it initially was going to their their closed weekend tests And it's very different from what we're seeing with these new kits and the new gameplays and all those things It seems like they're shifting more to that really fast-paced brought more brawler style Of game Um, and I know with a lot of people they've said that that's why they don't like overprime Is that it's more brawlery and it is more of that v 42 style of gameplay So i'm curious how their community reacts if that is the case Uh real quick lionheart official. Thank you for the membership much appreciated Um and also also josh will have been knocked us um started his membership today as well So that's why their names are sick. Well, their names are green and but and i've realized that my um My little logo looks like a rubber ducky Instead of Maybe i'll just change it to a rubber ducky from now on Yeah, I see what you say. Um, it seems like um Pred and overprime were like right here for the longest time now. They're easing in closer 100 overprime is reeling it back prince pushing it forward I don't know. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens in the end Yeah, it does feel like we're kind of getting them both in a weird middle ground where they're very similar to each other um with slight design changes like travel mode and overprime and versus not in predecessor Right, but they they're getting dangerously close to that same mark of The feel that they're going for and for that kind of stuff I kind of agree. It seems almost like it's like smite with their different maps You know what I mean? Like you get like a different vibe from each one. So like, okay, you play overprime It's a smaller map. It's faster paced and then when you want something more traditional moba.  It's still more open in that regard more Team fights and like that kind of stuff that are, you know, a little bit slower paced. I mean It is interesting that they from both their tests and like the community feedback where you get like this like, you know Are they pushing themselves too close to each other? Like is there going to be enough to discern themselves from one and um, I still think there is right now But obviously once we get our hands on the games, we'll have to see Um, but I was okay with like overprime for example That's the one I'm mainly rooting for only just because I had so much fun in the test Um, I didn't get a chance to play predecessor. So that's a little bit off, but If they make it a little bit more strategic than it was in the play test, that's fine. I still want the brawls though I still want like lots of early kills and things moving at a pace Um, so if that's fully removed then it won't be as much of an appealing game To me because that's what I wanted from overprime I wanted that game because it fits my lifestyle currently better I can jump in play a few rounds and jump back out whereas like Predecessors a lot more like when we play league for example, it's like I have to be in the right mental Headspace to be like, okay. This is going to be a 35 40 minute grind I have to be on it. I have to be paying attention to literally every single thing that's going on at all times and It can be a lot It can be a little bit more wearing and sometimes that can be a barrier for wanting to log in after a long day You know what I mean, um, whereas overprime It's almost no barrier.  Um, please.  I mean, there's something to be said about that too, but I would it would know that I I want this third person moba to to stick. I I know there's enough top-downs All right. Are you guys ready to get into some of these comments? please Actually, I'm gonna look for the one that I was just talking about Believe it was sophisticated carrot. Yep Fred played it all day and never got bored, which I think is super fucking important Because I get bored playing games real quick and both Fred and overprime I could play for hours and hours and hours Oh And I'll get bored of it and I go back to the last overprime test Right where the three of us were basically like off dude eat sleep and breathe overprime for the course of 11 days But it was the same way with pred like I was yeah Constantly played pred when it was out But pred was the the big difference though is pred was only out for a couple days Overprime was out for It was like a week and a half or something like that 11 days 11 days.  Yeah, I Think you sleep and breathe and thank you for carrying the casting on that tournament jelly because I was hungover as fuck I almost didn't wake up in time for it Oh, man Um, but yeah, no, I think that's super important for both of those games Right and having played fault recently there there are definitely times where I've played fault and I get three or four games in and I'm like that's enough fault for today Right and I can move on and go play something else do something else Whatever but with overprime and predecessor both when they last had their open tests It was like no, we're definitely gonna just be grinding out overprime for 11 days Right like it and there's definitely an aspect of that that because it's limited time It feels like you need to cram in as much play as possible In that 11 days or in the the weekend that predecessors available But it's a good sign for the future of what's to come for both of those games. Yeah Uh soul reaper. Thank you so much for the membership Levy thank you so much Jesus God, I don't know how you guys how why they cry because I like I'm like I'm getting emotional over here. Shit Um, it's so cool. Six o' wavy. I called off work for the pred play test.  Um It's true Yeah, Jose there has not been an official date release But they've said that they're going to do it sometime this year Probably around the holiday season But holiday season could literally mean from now till December 31st for all we know But yeah, so that that's the best answer we have to give same thing with console guys You guys ask us every week about console We have no fucking idea when these games are coming to console The closest that we have announcements for is possibly over priming because they did a playstation 5 test on it and then uh, we've had Pred devs in here talking about how it is something that they are absolutely Working towards but we don't have any announcements.  I would imagine Um, so but a man do the support this week is popping off man I don't cry. I just get so mad that flames come out of my tear ducts. So occasionally All right, Iggy Iggy is fun on fault. I agree lion higher.  Uh, let's let's go through some of these comments joshua mccabe Um, I feel like ethereal is too far off And then uh and not just from a console player like myself perspective to allow myself to get excited Regardless of the positive viewpoint on the game. So I choose over prime since I feel like we are closer to getting that on the ps5 Will most likely have to have the most content added and because I think its chances of making it long term are high Will of course play any and all that make it to the ps5 So this is a console player looking forward specifically to over prime Which I think if you're in the console camp, I think over prime is probably your best chance um, but as as uh viking would tell you it's all about It's all about pc master race anymore There's I know I went on my big rant last year. We go again. I'm not gonna do it again I don't have anything to rant about this week. I think one of you guys can take over the mantle of ranting about something um, but uh, you know, I okay We we all agree and understand that going to console is an important step, right? But I think sometimes console players forget how difficult it is for these studios to bring a game Especially a game that's still titled as early access or beta or any of those types of terms On to those stores and each store is not going to be the same as the other So if you try to bring it to microsoft, they will have a different requirement than sony well And so that those barriers make it difficult for these devs And so my argument last week was more of a rant and a yelling at you guys But it is that I would rather see them spend that time to make sure that the game is as good as possible For the audience that isn't ready to receive it and that that second Secondary audience will get the benefits of that when it's available um, so I do agree with joshua though that I think that whatever one does eventually get to console We'll have a huge leg up on the competition. Um and given that over prime has already kind of showcased a little bit of what they can do with the ps5 I think they're probably the closest based off of what we have Um, but at this point with the money that was invested in predecessor I I wouldn't be surprised if they're not all equally up to the task around the same time that over prime comes out So it's it's definitely in the works and I think it'll It'll be there before they know it I could see it maybe first quarter next year if they if they actually come out This this year then I would say first quarter next year that we'll see something console related for one of these studios personally I hope so That would just be my guess I think that would be a realistic time frame to get like a good feel for the market how the game's you know playing well um, and kind of figure out the bugs and all that other stuff and then they can be able to Theoretically get to a console release in the first quarter of 2023 That would be my guess it could be longer than that but that would just be my guess Uh, next comment here. I tried to pick one from each for supporters for each game You can hate yourself again. I wow that's fair. You know, I oh man goose. Let me tell you Well, we'll talk we'll talk after the stream. Okay, buddy. Okay. Thanks Now next comment is from nerd vibes Uh, and he says predecessor exclamation point I initially started off a huge fan of over prime But after seeing the level of polish and attention to detail of pred It's unique items tweaks and improvements the hero kits and transition to ue5 It is in my opinion the closest to a true triple a title and successor to our beloved paragon I will likely be playing both pred and over prime. But respectfully Respectfully, I haven't seen enough of ethereal that looks impressive and fault has too much working against it to bring myself Or anyone else back So I think this probably sums up Well, aside from they started off as an over prime fan and then shifted to a predecessor fan I think this kind of sums up a lot of how what how Pred fans feel and why they there's so many votes for pred It is that polish It is that attention to detail of the animations and everything that omeda sudo you has bought brought the predecessor that keeps people interested in it Yeah, absolutely And again, like like I said, they they're still Talk about the other games, you know in a in a positive light that just they have a preference and that's fine And I think it's the Probably the closest to a lot of people's feelings this comment in particular I felt like actually hit it the nail on the head with with pred as a whole because they are probably the closest to what we would consider A triple a studio as far as the money that they have invested like that's that's huge I mean the 20 what was it 25 million almost 30 million that they've gotten over the course It's it's nothing to sneeze at it's not maybe triple a money But it's as close to an indie devs triple a money that they're going to get So I think that that's a very very safe assumption that they're going to be the ones that probably Are able to enter into the market The healthiest I guess is the best way to do it and and visually of course the game does look really good But I think over prime is making a lot of steps in that same direction as far as their visual updates and Stuff we saw in these last few play tests. I think or not play tests. I'm sorry videos They'd have come through them that the quality of the game's visuals have enhanced quite tremendously. So Okay, I'm sorry, you're fine. I'm just gonna say josh would have been knocked I'm gonna talk now josh would have been knocked to set it earlier Um, uh predecessor has just been far more optimized than the other games so far Over prime was very well optimized But I don't think anything has come through the close close to the optimization that uh made us to use this Pulled off with pred Now you could talk jelly I think I think there's there's something we Also have to consider we talked about this in the past that fault has an edge in this way is that Getting these people in the door with their visuals is great But it's gonna be what have what they do with it afterwards Right what their patches look like what their balance looks like and how often those things happen um with over prime we at least have some kind of idea of At least we will get it We will get a patch at least once a month because they're going to be dropping a new hero a month Right so a bare minimum there has to be a patch for that Right, but it's from there how what does their balance look like what do their patches look like What does their support look like for their community? And from as of now we have not seen any of that out of predecessor And I'm very curious to see What these companies do with a full release schedule to keep that constant player base engaged and moving forward and all those kind of things kind of where we've seen faults succeed and lack at the same time In that they've had two years of experience doing this But their two years have not necessarily been smooth either So it's it's going to be interesting to see where these companies fall on that regard And then prep does have that third party company that they hire to specifically handle like patches and stuff like that so I think I mean that helped them out tremendously between that that one sort of failed stress test that they had where The stress got to them, I guess It depends on if it failed depending on how you look at it, but uh Yeah, that I forget the name of that company, but I can't think of it all the top of my head, but They have that that's helped them out tremendously And I mean money gives you options Overprime also has netmarble to help them with that because netmarble does have many active Games as a service games that are out already so if they're minimum they have someone they can go to to say like hey How do you better support this going forward? right I think that's a part of it too, right? It's it's sometimes it's hard I think for people who aren't already in the predecessor camp to to find reasons to get into it Like for me and like other than being part of this show and spending more time investing into it As a casual person if you didn't play in the last play test Your vision of pred is probably pretty lacking because there's not that much content on it Whereas overprime regardless if you were in the last play test You've gotten lots and lots of gameplay footage. You've gotten updates. You've gotten so When the predecessor is playing things I think a lot closer to the chest and I think that's a way of a lot of more traditional dev work is is they don't really Release as much information and they could be working on and I'm sure they are a lot of amazing things in the background And then when they come out They're just gonna have all this really cool stuff versus where overprime has kind of been trickling things along of You know what we can look forward to and be excited for So it's it'll be interesting It's it's but it's also kind of a gambit like because they're not getting any feedback from the community that that's going to be investing in them So without that initial feedback to be able to make changes before they go into early access or to release It can be if it's not received well You might end up with a similar fault situation where that release initially was kind of like everybody jumped jumped in 100,000 well 100,000 but lots of people jumped in ready to play threes of thousands Jumped in ready to play and then they were like, oh, you know like oh this it's like, you know Hitting speed bumps and roadblocks and it's like despite your best efforts despite you wanting to be there for the dev team And play this game. You're kind of like This isn't what I want to do so Hopefully they they figure that out because I think The the groundwork for what they've shown is good, right? So we'll see what it looks like once we actually get to see it because they're not really giving us a lot So it's harder to to really judge them. Um, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It could be to their benefit when everything comes out Uh, I wish they would though next comment is from actual devs who should be here about five minutes before we close things down Of course Over prime is my pick I get excited with everything put they put out recently Not just that it does its own thing with the assets Soul leave doesn't try to emulate paragon, but more so they throw their own spin on the things and melds old paragon into Into it with prime dunk and travel I hope this stays true because I genuinely think it's over prime's biggest strength It feels fresh and separates itself from the other pair of zombies So I think that some fairly well sums up why people Chose over prime while a lot of people are excited for over prime um And we mentioned earlier that they pred and over prime are kind of coming more to a middle ground of in terms of similarities But I think even if they were to fully cross over and and reach like the same type of play of like being more of a brawly Style of game over prime is still more distinct from paragon than predecessor would be Because of the a lot of those changes they've made their visual effects are very different than how Paragon had them set up and from what we've seen of predecessor The way that they do camera movements and all that kind of stuff is is very different than what we've seen out of these other games And I think does sums it up perfectly and that that it's it really is distinct despite having a lot of those same elements that we've seen from these other games And I think to that point too is despite them maybe getting close the big thing that's going to separate them Is their original eyepiece? Right and and I think that's one of the things I'm most excited about is that they both have intense in like, you know projects in mind for how to start Implementing their own ip outside of the epic assets because I think that's really where these games are going to shine and separate themselves from each other and you know, that's what I think fault has failed to do is be able to Really distance itself from, you know, the epic assets and even struggle to put out the epic assets on a consistent Consistent basis in a way that works So if predecessor and overprime are able to continuously now make original ip and that's engaging and fun for the community You'll have fans of both of those original ip's that are going to keep you separate Well enough that you're not going to be I think overall Oh, you might have overlap But you're not going to have anything where it's like this game is exactly like this game And it's going to be because of those ip differences and I think To death's point over prime has kind of already started doing that through You know the changes they've made for the heroes But we have seen things now with predecessor coming out with these new releases of kits They're kind of doing a similar thing just on a way more Their own version of it like some of those abilities that they're using are super dynamic like, you know, that's decker's kit Wild in comparison to what I would have expected from them, you know, and it's beautiful. I love it I think it's super exciting to see So, um, I but that's where I think it's it's going to be the original ip's though That are really going to keep them separate despite the possible closeness closeness as far as gameplay and You know all that stuff Uh, line hard line artificial I don't think I'm going to turn the prime minion into wu kong Many god What I what I was getting about I was thinking of The prime orb marching down the lane and using thousand hairs to spawn other Prime warbs all around the towers Oh, oh, that one sucks so bad We'd have a different way to win in seven minutes then Well, I forget how many they've they've uh, they've promised for for all of them predecessor promised 20 in their article with epic games Okay um, and over prime hasn't I don't think set a direct number but based on Over primes websites and the ones that we know about that are already in game that we've seen have play I think we're at like 22 23 and we know that they're going to have a dell In early access and then they've said that before it may not come true But pretty sure they will have their own original hero in early access Yeah, so right now they have 18 over prime is 18 on their website. We know about sarith faye chimera wraith And a dell would make an additional five So that's 23 on on early access really assuming there's not more than that All right, let's move on to this next comment This is from hooded havoc Uh, even if it is the common take predecessor just feels better to play than what I've played of fault and ethereal Haven't tried over prime yet The fluid combat sound effects and visuals are generally at a good spot The ui was the worst part for me, but they're fixing it due to feedback I'm 100 true. I agree with that However, I will say that I don't have too much faith in predecessor being able to stand as anything unique from paragon Or the other games Over prime already shows commitment to being different and having fresh ideas and spins on the concepts from paragon Whilst pred looks more like a chunk of paragon was ripped off and polished enough to be considered a game And this is somebody who picked predecessor And I think that it's it's it's good to have still have criticisms And and want improvements from the game that you enjoy the most In fact, I think that's where most of your criticisms Should should be and the game that you want really want to succeed. That's the one that you should be the most willing to offer Um, you know, let them know what the problems are but also offer solutions Which is what we did with the ui a lot of us did not like pred's ui It took off it took up way too much of the screen and since we gave that feedback from the test They are going to be fixing it. So I really like this comment from hooded havoc Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree and it kind of touches on what we said already of like it is It it looks like it takes a piece of paragon and polished it up Whereas the others are trying to distinct themselves from paragon despite saying that that's where they came from And and it'll be interesting to see what they do With that conceptually going forward, right? And I think it just speaks to again that there's a little bit more overlap than I think maybe a few months ago We would have expected from from the fans of these these games that are coming out Um, again, I give a lot of credit to not only the studios putting out, you know more information But even us talking about it as much as we have is that, you know, there's Stuff to love and to criticize about both And I and I love that again, yeah, depending on which one you're rooting for you want to give them the most critique I think mangos hit the nail on the head You want to push that dev team to give you the product that is going to keep you around And it would be dumb of those dev teams to not seek out and and I think that's why sometimes we see them You know in our channel here or you know interacting in other aspects with the community to get that feedback And I think it's really really important. So 100% I it's another great comment man. We had so many good comments in that It was so many very difficult to to to single out some because they were all really good. They were all really good I mean, so for all these games to succeed. They definitely need to remove sarith from the game. Um, we'll be fine Keep sarith. What what are you have what have we gotten into this? Why are you so against sarith? I Yes, uh, I think I was burned too many times by an our sarith versus their sarith idea Right like our sarith is always the one that like jumps right into a full five stack and immediately dies And there's the one that jumps into a five stack and murders the whole five stacks So it's uh, I mean that and I could never play sarith very well. So I'm definitely Definitely an aspect of like if I can't play or nobody can You know what I always loved is People would seem to think that they were invulnerable whenever they did her Hover and then crashed her crashing dive thing They would hover there looking at me. I'll be on Richard like no come here, you know You can always tell that they were shocked that they got yanked out of the air by a ricketer Because it's because I don't know everybody seemed to think that they were invulnerable during that shit I don't know Anyway, I don't know on with on with the comments. This is from uh, real easy. You see him a lot He's a he's a fault proponent, but he also offers a lot of really good criticism about fault And uh, his pick was fault Uh fault reason being it has the pacing feel and skill requirements of a good strategic moba Yes, the dev team needs to work on communication. Yes, it is the roughest of the bunch But the other two while I think we'll have some success If the depth isn't there to separate the skill floor from the ceiling or rather the masters versus the bronze players Now both pred and op have made improvements. I'm sure and I'm excited to try each of them and play a game that has Marketed and has more players than fault queuing That being said unless pred or op proves to me that they can be the more strategic game With lots of ways to express your skills as a player. I prefer fault Um, I'll pick I picked this one because well not well read. I'll tell you that right now.  You literally no, I just copy pasted it from youtube.   No, no the reason I picked this comment is a lot of people just said, you know fault because it's playable and um Which I think is a valid Argument it's playable. That's the one it is. They're excited to argue against however I think this one kind of um laid out a little more of why someone would actually pick fault over the others If they were all out together So what do you guys think I completely agree with you on that and I think It lays it out all on the table, right? Like I would agree That the strategic elements of fault are more there than what I felt they were in overprime or predecessor in their last test Because overprime and granted that could just be a balanced thing because overprime and predecessor Every single game whether it was the enemy team or my team someone gets fed. They seem roll the game That's how the game ends. There was no Direct strategy around it other than the the strategic elements existed But they weren't really the thing that made the game what it was And viking you and I have proved open during fault open weekend or the first weekend of release Strategy can win out right we won 3v5 against the team because we were able to play the strategy game better And the other team took us in like an hour and a half, but yeah Yeah, no, no um But I I think that that is is definitely true that faults probably does currently from the last play test of the other games Compared to fault now has the most strategic elements in play that are meaningful to the end to playing the game Compared to lead to just someone steamrolls and that's it Yeah, I I completely agree. I think fault. I mean fault feels like what you would expect from the traditional mindset of a MOBA currently um And it is playable that There's nothing wrong with that take if you prefer fault because you can actually log in and start playing the game Literally right now and you play for free. That's a that's that's fair. These other games are not out yet We don't know really what they're going to be like or how they're going to perform or what kind of monetization schemes They're going to have whether or not it's actually going to be supported I mean and we've talked about this on the show a lot like the uphill battle for all of these is very high Fault's been in this market for two plus years now They've they've managed to weather all the storms that you can possibly throw at it and still have a pretty solid You know small but solid community of people who love playing fault every single day Now we'll see what that looks like once the other games come out if they can really you know put fault onto the pressure but um Yeah, I mean I I think really he brought up a lot of good points about you know Why fault it can continue to be successful I think the main critique that we've kind of continued to levy at them is exactly what he pointed out their communication The lack of like really providing a good roadmap Content is still kind of lacking, you know And I think these other two studios are going to come out with lots of content lots of hype And it's really really going to put the pressure on people who are wanting to still play fault on if that's really going to be sustainable Um, I mean it sounds like even real easy would play those other games If they can offer what he currently is getting at fault And I think they've been kind of pushing towards that everything that we're seeing from them content-wise is saying Yeah, these are going to be real mobas to play. So if you're still looking for you know high skill expression You you might find it in overprime overprime or predecessor Uh No, good jelly. No, go ahead man. No, I went first last time now.  It's not a decision I think one of the things that league benefits from is it's a decision Do I take this or do I take a different spell that benefits me in different ways? Fred doesn't have that everybody gets the same spell the same distance the same everything And so if you're in lane and somebody blinks away from you You blink after them and you get the kill and both of your blinks come up at the same time And you rinse and repeat for the rest of the game, right like and it just That cycle was constant and I do think the blinks A lot of these kits were designed with blinks Not in mind or blinks attached to items that were varied and only benefited certain kits giving everyone a blink is Really, I think questionable in terms of what the what the outcomes are going to become Because it's just it's just going to turn into a blinkfest every time one person blinks You're going to get five people that blink after them because everyone's got it. It's all the same It's all and then all of your cooldowns are coordinated So I blink two seconds after somebody two seconds before I get my blink back They get their blink flag like it's It's it to me it removes an aspect of strategy rather than adding one I think to that point and I know mangas you still have years you want to talk about but like coming from league of legends It there was a point where league had to riot had to come out and talk about the fact that they needed to do a better job With summoner spells because everybody is running flash. You had to run flash to be A relatively competitive player and it basically becomes like, okay So should we just make flash an ability that everybody has inherently no no no What we really need to do is make it to where other abilities do things well enough that flashes in a mandatory Still pretty mandatory for most things But it the thought is there right so if everybody has a blink then what's the point of the blink right like When everyone's super nobody is right like it's the Incredibles quote Right you kind of hope right that that there's something to be said around it, right? Like again, you can like, you know in league you do you time it you okay I forced out their flash or I forced out their blink and I didn't have to use mine So now I have that strategic advantage to use at my disposal So there is something to be said in a strategy game to be able to you know, utilize those things and you know Hey, we burned that earlier in this they're not going to have it ready for this team fight And it's just another cool down that you track So I guess we'll have to see because it again if everybody has one It's become something that you always are having to think about versus, you know It's an item like it is in fault where you know, maybe they take it Maybe they don't take it like I never build the blink item when I'm playing fault Maybe I should I don't know I never think too because I'm like more power please like, you know But you don't have to do that in predecessor you have one so it makes like Yeah, I don't know it's a very interesting way to do it and we'll see how it looks like, you know Again when we're talking about high skill skillings and stuff like that does that help does that hinder We'll see what was your thought mangus Well, I've changed it now, but I'll come back to it But what I want to bring up now that y'all talking about the blanks is that the the crests in predecessor I thought were very cool and added a lot to skill expression Picking like non-tals out of 10 when I was playing a mid laner.   There was zero assistance for jelly and that one.  That's what I put you in the position to get that kill. So clearly. Yeah, I'm definitely part of which was exemplified from uh Was exemplified by his clear like Shock that I'd gotten a kill that you could hear in his voice during the short It's that's fair. I deal with that all Like you'll be like, oh I managed to do something. Yes.  I with with over prime improtesters are coming out I probably will start streaming on again. I think it'll be just too fun Not to uh, so hopefully everybody will come out and watch us stream these games when when we get the chance to Um, by the way, speaking of rants, I hate state disabilities. I hate them beyond I can't stand them. I think they're They they reward bad positioning and bad play More times than they are of of a like higher skill ceiling usage It's a it's a bailout system that that I don't know. I hate it.  Oh, dude forever at this point It seems like a god ever since we met we just knew it was love at first sight and just I'm there Yeah, I also feel like I'm married to mangos, but not mangos. I'm sorry to jelly Does that make us the wives and he's oh, you're definitely the wives. You're the two to sleep naked together though Well, that is an established canon and discord by the way, you're you're just jealous I said I was when that was brought up um So I do address something but you brought up mangos real quick about about those crest items I agree the crest items by themselves super cool For viking that hasn't played predecessor The crest items are effectively the league support items that give that have quests And over time they level themselves up into better versions of their idea. I have always like that everybody It's not just for supports. So every character has something like this. That's awesome. Okay Super cool idea I think that's a fantastic way to do it that you can have a starting item that still is beneficial late game Rather than it's just the you get the starting items so you can play the game and then you sell it 15 minutes later And then yeah, that's that fault kind of has that too right with the starting items in the support one goes Well, no because the the the mage one that you get the book it also levels up to like a better Every every fault starting item does yeah You still end up selling them for another item later But they do carry you through the mid game and I did like that about fault. That was a cool item I wish they did that in other games more like league I wish they had that in league like for for other items. But anyway, sorry, I ended up to do but a lot of those Abilities that those crests give you and we've talked about this with galaxy griefs in the past a lot of those abilities that they give you is Abilities from another paragon character Right, they give you that like you said wraith rewind or they give you The ability to resurrect yourself after a couple seconds or they give you right like galaxy griefs gives you decker jump At what points are like is that just going to be broken when countess gets added to the game Can I count us jump then use my item then go attack somebody then count us jump backwards and then gets teleported the item again Like oh fuck. Yeah, that'd be how is that going to work when decker gets into the game or decker's in the game now When she right clicks with galaxy griefs Is it going to be right click and then double jump with galaxy griefs? Like how these interactions get really scary when you start adding in the actual characters Cool, but also Badly balanced at the same time and that's what makes me nervous I'm the comments right now about Just so you guys know it's always been a marriage stream. Okay It's a guy bromance that one broke me I want to go all the way back though to where you were talking about um how fault has weathered the storm I would say that the fault ship has weathered many a storm But pred and overprime have bigger fancier ships And I think we're going to see a lot of people jump and ship once once they come alongside fault However, as the molos comment a long long time ago in the chat um The fault. I mean the predecessor and the overprime ships Require a lot more people to stay afloat whereas fault can stay afloat with just a few people They've are they've proven that they can do so Right. Well, and well, that's still to be determined to right now with fault being free to free to play Right. They were getting by on the fact that they were a paid for game, but We'll see how long they can last if if they lose more numbers than they already have Right, but I agree with you 100% that these two new ships are going to require a lot more to keep themselves afloat It's going to be a bigger undertaking and that's why I think again It's already a huge huge thing for them to be able to Weather the storm of entering into this marketplace let alone being competing titles and all the stuff that comes with the, you know Paragon baggage if you will Um, it's going to be tough. I I do think that they're both Capable I feel like overprime just because of the market that they're probably going to have the lion share of their Um player basin is going to be able to weather that a little bit easier than maybe predecessor. Well, but we'll see obviously I'm interested to see when when predecessor starts marketing What their marketing looks like because as far as I can know they haven't done any marketing really at least not on a large scale Um, so when they actually start diving into that I think that'll be a huge tell Of how well predecessor launch is going to go when they start actually pushing marketing Uh, let's let's move on to another comment. This one is from smash When I watch clips of overprime I think cool looks good But needs a lot of improvements in terms of animation and gameplay and always looks the same when I look at predecessor clips It looks polished in terms of animation and gameplay Still needs work, but looks better than the rest and you can notice improvements overall They seem to have a decent team and have an idea what they want their game to be No interest in the other games, but I only hope the best for them Um, I think this is again Uh, I included a couple of predecessor comments because that's what everybody Kind of rooted for you could tell, you know, 57. That's what everybody was kind of rooting for But uh, I think I think this was a great comment. Um Predecessor definitely does take the lead in just smoothness of gameplay and animations and everything like that. Um, I think I see what he said about overprime though, like Um, we haven't seen much improvement until they released that in-house tournament I think we saw a lot of improvement from their old videos 100 so um And as we get closer to their actual release, I think they'll release some gameplay trailers and we'll see Um quite a bit of improvement in those Mm-hmm But uh, great. Yeah, I again Love my community. No interest in the other games, but only hope the best for them. Hell, yeah And I think that was a theme that kind of carried throughout right and we've already covered like a good portion of these It's it's that Everybody kind of understands that both both are good games in concept, right? Um, and Unfortunately, I felt like Fault was the the one left by the wayside a little bit like Even though ethereal didn't get as much votes almost everybody was talking about how ethereal has a lot of potential and you know Looks to be a more exciting game Just not quite in the same conversation as the other three titles that are, you know, obviously a lot farther along in the development process Um, I don't think that that all hope is lost for fault But I think it's kind of telling when you look at this given how large of a population participated And how big the community is that's supporting these these potential um programs and processes fault has kind of Almost burnt out. I feel like some of the the people that would have maybe been more in their camp You know being the game that is the playable I would have hoped to have seen More people wanting to come to bat for them and be rooting for them But it does seem like despite how maybe their discord likes to talk that Fault is a little bit of a waiting room for these other two Titles that are you know about to come out mostly predecessor um, and and so I'm hoping that maybe through some of this fault will see this video I don't know if any of them are watching in the background right now And maybe it'll light a little bit more of a fire under their butts I mean based off of the comments that uh, we got from arma. It doesn't seem like that's something that they're putting too much Priority on um, they feel like they can just continue to weather the storm in their old iron sides boat Um, and maybe they're right, you know, who knows, you know Yeah, well these these big fancy boats, you know, they they break easy in some k capacities You know, so, uh, maybe they do weather the storm and will look like the idiots that doubted them, but I think the number yeah, this kind of puts it in perspective a little bit like More people voted on this poll than play fault on average That's true at least according to steam charts We don't see our scores being good. Okay. We don't epic numbers. It will pre epic still but anyway um last comment here Rob Robin and Rujan I can't with this jelly knees comment I don't know what he's talking about. I don't know either Some guy was on there talking about how hot the community manager for ethereal is and I mean I agree with them But that's crazy Uh, but I agree with ethereal it's just um The project that is the most standalone one and adds the most new stuff to the MOBA genre Personally, I enjoyed over prime too a lot and hope that the next play test comes soon So that's uh, that's somebody rooting for ethereal But as we said a lot of the comments were I'm really looking forward to predecessor, but ethereal peaks my interest. I'm really looking forward to over prime but ethereal peaks my interest or Even the other way around, um, you know, I'm voting for predecessor, but Over prime actually really impressed me and I'm kind of looking forward to it now too Or even That we had the one comment where the person started as an over prime fan And then as they saw more and more of predecessor they become a predecessor a predecessor fan. So It's going to be an interesting uh next year. I think Absolutely And you we've talked about this already about like the how proud we are of this community for not just bashing on Like my game's the best screw those other games, right? Like that's But the especially with smash Smash last line of no interest in the other games, but only hope the best for them That's me is the most embodying of the hide tide raises all ships Yep, right of like I hope the other games do well because I want my game to succeed Right, it's not I want them to do terribly So my game succeeds is I want them to do well which pushes my game to be better And I think that's really really cool to see throughout all these comments is Is that it kind of that idea of being embodied of high tide raises all ships Which is very different from what we've seen even six months ago four months ago of These polls were very very different in those answers Also, uh For cyber drunk does ethereal have any plans for another play test this year? I want to run it down lane with tallows again. I know man goose wants to join you in doing so We'll be in the middle. We'll be able to oppose the time I I will say there are plans. I cannot disclose dates or time frames But I will say there are plans coming for more ethereal soon. I promise And uh six away be I think we all just want a good game Just not sure what game it that that is. So, uh, yeah I think that's that's perfectly okay And I still hold by my thought that there is space for for two I do think that two games whether I mean it fault seems to be on the lower scale of this But I mean whether it's fault predecessor or or over prime. I think that there is space Or two titles. I doubt for all three and I think it's over prime and one other I don't really think that Predecessor and fault both survive in the same sphere.  Um, we've moved on from soon tm to do you want this or console? That's the new meme Do you want a better ui or console? Do you want this hero or console? That's what we do now. Yep 100% That is the new raziel. Yeah, I like this comment from raziel. We have a good game. It's called fault. Just advertise. Yeah Well, so I would pose that question then to him, right? It's it's one thing to throw like critique and we do it often on this show But we usually try and bring like, okay, so what's your solution, right? So what what is it that fault in your opinion that they can do to be able to Compete when these other titles come out because we know they're coming So what is it the what kind of advertisement do we need from them to be able to weather the storm continuing? I'm right now. We talked about it a little bit.  I think they've done an excellent job with fault. It's a it's It's it's a good game for how how many people have worked on it for for the little amount of money that they've had to work on it But they've just poisoned the well way too many times they've had so many opportunities To make that game more than what it is now and have squandered all of those opportunities And it's just built up to the point where I do not see a light in the darkness for fault Doesn't mean that light doesn't exist. It very well could I just don't know what it would be I mean we always say more marketing more advertising for fault. I don't think that would help at this point I think that's true. I think they need a levy of things right they need Advertising they need content like more content and better content. They need Better a revamp of their already revamped monetization to be more engaging so that way they can keep money coming in They need skins. They need Events they need a lot of things right away And and that's the thing I think that continues to bother me is that they Even I posed the question to arma when he was on partner panel and it just still doesn't feel like they have the same like timeframe in mind that we do for people who are wanting to See something from them to keep us interested and if the community is screaming If we as the voice of that same community are screaming give us something to be excited about give us something to be excited to talk about But they're not doing it and and I think that's so advertising will help But I don't think it's it's not going to be enough. What are you going to advertise for? Like what what is it going to be exciting to bring somebody in who's never played one of these games? Is there enough content for them? I don't know. Those are the questions that I would ask though Debra nice. Thank you so much for the membership. Um I think it it goes further into We talked about in the past of them them doing more to nurture their community Right because even if they if they put out massive advertisements and got players coming in You they're at this point It's almost that they're putting out ads for one of these other two games without anything to back it up Because the new players will come into the game either will have a good time not have a good time and leave Whatever it is But then they'll be playing Wednesday get more involved with the community the community's gonna be like Oh Predecessor is a thing and the that player is going to go. What's predecessor? Look it up and be like, well, maybe I'm just going to play that instead Really, they don't have enough that's pulling players back into their camp Over over primer predecessor when they come out and that that's the thing that makes me nervous is they They're not putting out content fast enough. They're not giving players a reason to stay.  It's just horribly unoptimized at certain points in in in a false history Yeah, like even me playing it always play at 60 fps because that's what youtube recordings are Yeah, I've even had optimization issues with fault Sometimes it's perfect though.  We have a lot of times I just feel like we're giving our our honesty towards the game that we have to play I think there is a lot of toxicity that does get thrown towards fault However, I think they also fostered their own Um environment of toxicity early on into the development phase and the other thing is it seems that The the reason things got toxic with paragon is because it really seemed that the dev team were Ignoring what the players were asking for and that's what seems to be happening with fault So when that happens when communication is a one-way street Um, that's when that's when the shit gets off the rails. That's when People start spewing poison a little bit and I don't think even in fault's case like Like us and the partner panel. We're not spewing poison. We're offering suggestions that may help them improve It's up to them whether they take take those suggestions And you know, I'm not going to be offended if I make a suggestion and they don't take it It's their game. They're allowed to plan ahead and plan for its future But when you see The same problems and same mistakes made over and over again when when you have pointed those mistakes out It it gets to be real real real tough real hard real rough and people start to get Angry that they feel that their voices are not being heard Mm-hmm Yeah, I mean the so ralios brings it up and we've said it several times before fault's biggest problem is sms right like it's it's Not the game that's the problem necessarily It's the failure failures to learn from their history of sms every time they put something out whether it be a patch or New content or whatever it is. I mean the amount of times It's a little thing to be sure the amount of times that I go into their game when they've added something new and there's a placeholder texture from unreal engine Where a photo a image of a ward is supposed to be or an icon or any of those things blows my mind Like happen once or twice when you first release But then design a pipeline that says make sure these things are all in place before this goes out And never have it be a problem again, right yet. It's constantly It's the same issues over and over and over again, and it feels terrible Uh mullo is also saying you know give it 10 patches on pred You'll see the same if they're not constant growth to overcome this toxic community. Uh, yeah Yeah, we we've said that before as well like once these games bonkide We're going to see just how nice and lovey-dovey the community is after they have it in their hands for after a couple months but um I think and that's where I think the difference is too is um predecessor omeda studios and um net marble with uh with soleave Have the monetary assets to overcome those problems a lot faster Then strange matter does which is sad for strange matter, but this is real life I it's not my fault that they don't have more money than the net marble or or omeda with their uh seed funding Yep SMS is strange matter studios And I I mean toxicity in gaming in general has been something that we've talked about on this show before too and and I actually made that like Appeal to the fault community before free to play was coming out and as free to play was coming out I remember we spent a lot of time even talking about that that if they if people who are Enjoyers of fault wanted to see fault succeed once it went to free to play that the community itself would need to To understand the role that they play And not creating an environment that when new players were downloading the game for the first time and trying to come in and play In casual lobbies Literally called casual that you wouldn't shit all over them and call them names and tell them to down not to uninstall the game because I've had faults since they first came out and I was still getting those same comments When I was playing and it's like Who if I'm brand new and I don't have anything invested in this I'm playing it because we talk about it all the time You know now granted when they you know released Iggy I started playing because I actually wanted to play for that was a kind of a surprise But before that it was just I don't know like I wouldn't want to deal with that nonsense I'll just go back to wherever game I came from then you know what I mean Like they don't have the benefit of being as big as league of legends or as big as smite is and where a toxic community Isn't necessarily Going to stop people from continuing to play the game League of legends has one of the most toxic communities I've ever encountered It's worse than like modern warfare lobbies in my opinion in some capacities But it's so massive that it doesn't necessarily stop league But now league is struggling to continue to gain new players and is losing more of their player base People are moving on for me as the player base is getting older like us three They're not playing as much league of legends and the zoomers aren't really coming in to play league of legends because it's too daunting of a task So the moba genre itself having a toxic community is going to be at its own detriment But the community is the people that are toxic each individual watching this stream right now has a park to play And and can hold their fellow man accountable for that toxicity and I don't have a problem with um I'm blanking on his name omu or something like that right umulo. Sorry Pointing that exact thing out if there are people who are being toxic in creating a toxic environment Being part of that changes by calling it out. Um, I'd like to hope that we aren't part of that toxic community I'd like to think that whenever we are critiquing something. It's from a usually a place of professionalism Um, unless it's me ranting about consoles, then I guess that's maybe a little toxic.   So They're there more see that overprime and predecessor are in a much more volatile state than fault is Fault can coast for a significantly longer amount of time than both either overprime or predecessor could in theory all right um I think that's that's about it for this week. Um, like I said, there wasn't a lot of news so This was kind of our our main focus Hopefully we'll get some new some more news next next week. Um, do you guys have any final comments? Do you guys want to say before we wrap things up? I love console Yeah, I do sure you I do I do listen. I have xbox game pass. I play it like every every day almost I love console What he's saying is he hates console players Sorry Yeah, yeah a direct console itself personal attack Very very console has nothing to do with this. It's you You know what he hates anybody in the place of controller too, I'm gonna I'm gonna add that to well To Jenna's camp.  Actually, I will say that if you need aim assist, just get good nerd.  Yeah, I saw that a tiktok where they were doing that a modern warfare like the aim assist for controller It was literally moving the the the crosshair like half a screen. It was nuts. How strong this is. I was like, it's gross Oh, claw rocks. Wow. You don't even pay for full price for console games viking. Wow.  So you really do hate console Not supporting the platform. So Game pass is just too good. I do play.  He kept yelling. I'm hitting a button I was like, no the a button. It's marked a my brother's four years older than me. Anyway Oh Joey you got any final comments before we close things out Uh, no, just it's been good to have everyone. It was really cool to see All the support for ethereal Honestly that like like despite ethereal being the lowest in votes Seeing everybody say like my game plus ethereal this game plus ethereal this game plus ethereal was super super cool to see And really like reassuring to me that like we are doing cool things going forward, right? Like it it's moving in the right direction to that tell us getting so sick It's so good for any of you guys who missed it earlier go back It's it's at sort of the beginning. We did go over the tell us new skin I'm sure it'll come out on socials at some point, but it's uh, it's really really sick It's out on socials now. So is it there you go? There you go. You can go look at it on our social media as well Right on zoom in. It's very very detailed I just want to that'll be my final comment too. I you know, I think you're about to say the same thing I was super proud of the community like I know I'm relatively a new member of being a face on here on ftm But it was just so cool to see all the comments coming through how How engaging people were with it. Um, I mean comments in general over the last few months Especially since we've had a lot more content have been really good overall But this this post in particular was just super super cool. It was really really neat It got me excited And for for all of this and just because the community is bringing it So, uh, I hope that kind of combats a little bit of what you know, people have perceived To be a toxic community for these games. Um, because I do think that there's a lot of positive actors and uh, this this most recent poll that you did I think showcases that a lot and uh, so i'm really really excited for it Yeah, that that's exactly what I was going to say. Just really really proud of the community Really appreciate everybody keeping it civil in the comments on the uh on that poll post I do want to remind you that we do the anime podcast every thursday this time We're going to be talking about the best anime fights ever so you come out there and watch me be the bad guy instead of jedi I tend to be the one that pisses people off of that one because I uh Bit of a gatekeeper bit of a gatekeeper. Anyway Sounds like man goose I do appreciate everybody coming out and watching the live stream. I appreciate all the support on the live stream All the new members are going to have to go through and update the outro, but uh Yeah, I know it's five of them. That's a it was a good time great. Uh, but yeah, thank you for coming out if you're watching the uh live stream Thank you for watching the video if you're watching that for now This is the for the minions crew signing off you guys have a good one Hit the button Button to the buttons Special shout out to channel members. I've bloodhuntered last words king raven meow mix from angeline's clorox tv