We'll be looking at chapter 2, Malachi chapter 2 verses 1 through 9. This is a very practical, powerful portion of Scripture and much of it pertains to rebukes and words to the priests. And when you look at it and begin to apply it in the New Testament sense, you can see that it is a rebuke of spiritual leaders in general. And you'll see what I'm speaking about in just a moment as we go through this. So let's begin here in Malachi chapter 2. At verse 1, I'll read to verse 9. That's what we'll be looking at tonight. Malachi chapter 2 verses 1 through 9. We'll get into our study. Malachi chapter 2 beginning at verse 1. And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear and if you will not take it to heart to give glory to my name, says the Lord of hosts, I will send a curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already because you do not take it to heart. Behold, I will rebuke your descendants and spread refuse on your faces. The refuse of your solemn feasts and one will take you away with it. Then you shall know that I have sent this commandment to you. That my covenant with Levi may continue, says the Lord of hosts. My covenant was with him, one of life and peace. And I gave them to him that he might fear me. So he feared me and was reverent before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth and injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and equity and turned many away from iniquity. For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge and people should seek the law from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But you have departed from the way. You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts. Therefore, I also have made you contemptible and base before all the people because you have not kept my ways but have shown partiality in the law. He sounds mad. Malachi, the prophet Malachi, even as we began this book, disclosed to us that he had a burden. Remember in verse one of chapter one, I want to develop this with the Aleah Foundation. Remember how I said in chapter one, verse one, the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi, the burden. Malachi has a burdened heart. And this burdened heart is being revealed to the children of Israel. And the message that God has given to him compounded with the sorrow of his heart for Israel, the message and his heart is heavy. It would seem to me that ministers can have a deep response when God moves in their hearts. It's like what it says in Jeremiah 20, verse nine, when Jeremiah said, I said I will not make mention of him nor speak any more in his name.  I was weary of holding it back and could not. There's this desire on the one hand Jeremiah had to not speak in his name. Things had not been going well up to that point for him. And he said, I'm getting tired. I don't want to be speaking any more in his name and yet on the other hand. But it was like a fire that was raging within me. And even though I wanted to hold it back, I couldn't. When the Lord puts a burden on somebody's heart, even if he if he resists that sense, there's still this this fire that burns within them and they can't hold it back. Jeremiah 23, nine went on to say my heart within me is broken because of the prophets. All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man and like a man whom wine has overcome because of the Lord and because of his holy words, my heart within me is broken. And the Lord has something to say very often. The first thing he does is he breaks the one who brings the message. The message reveals the burden of the heart of the Lord and the messenger. If he is going to communicate that message properly is also going to experience brokenness, there will be a burden. That's what happens when somebody has something to say from the Lord, when God begins to move within that person's heart, there is an overwhelming sense of heaviness that can occur because of the holiness and glory of God, the desire for God to be exalted and because of the lostness of the people that you see who are rejecting the message that God would give to them. When you look into the New Testament, you see an individual we all know by name. His name is Paul. And there's a portion of scripture in the book of Acts where Paul is waiting for two of his friends to come to him. Paul is in the city of Athens and he's waiting two of his friends, coworkers, one by the name of Silas, also known as Sylvainus, and the other one by the name of Timothy. You see, Paul had preached in the city of Thessalonica. There had been a great harvest of souls. A multitude of people had listened and had come to faith in Christ. A good number of Gentiles had come to faith in the Lord and there were some Jews who were present and they were unconvinced concerning the message of Christ and as a result of seeing what was taking place, these unconvinced Jews became envious and they went about gathering a mob and then they incited an angry response. So in order to protect Paul, the church had sent him to Athens where he was awaiting Silas and Timothy. But while he's there in this amazing city, the city of Athens, this ancient city of intellectualism at all, when he was there, what he saw burdened his heart and it moved him deeply. The Bible tells us in Acts chapter 17, verses 16 and 17, while Paul waited for them at Athens. His spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. Therefore, he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there. So the Bible says that his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was completely given over to idolatry. That's what happens when you see people given over to that which destroys their life. When you have a heart for the Lord, a burden is there and a grief can occur and there's this sense of heaviness because people are lost. You see, the Bible teaches one thing very particularly clearly and that is that God takes no pleasure in sin. God takes no pleasure in sin and neither should his children see in the evil and the pain that results from sin. The evil and the pain that results from people being in sin. How to provoke us? It ought to cause us within to have a grief, at least a grief for those who are so lost and not only for those who are so lost but for the lives that are ruined because of that ruined life where the man is not happy with his wife in his marriage and so he decides to have some fun on the side. So we ought to be grieved that his marriage is not doing well but our grief goes even deeper when we see what it does to the wife and when we see what it does to the children and when we see what it does to those who love that family. It ought to go deep within us. We ought not to be those kinds of people that, oh, well, big deal, they're big, they'll take care of it. It ought to cause a burden within us. God sees no pleasure, he has no pleasure in sin and his children ought not to take pleasure in it either. In 2 Peter in chapter 2, verses 7 and 8, the Bible tells us that God rescued lot a righteous man who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men for that righteous man living among them day after day was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard. So though he was there in the midst of Sodom, Gomorrah in that area, though he was there in the midst of all of this, he didn't take pleasure in it, his heart was grieved, he grieved him daily as he saw the way that they lived. Well, Melachi has a burdened heart and he has brought a heavy message to the nation. And at this point as we've been going through Melachi, we have seen that he has been rebuke in the people of Israel because they have dishonored the Lord. You see, this dishonoring of the Lord had begun through the ungodly ministry of the priests. The priesthood had become somewhat like a polluted stream. Zephaniah in chapter three, verse four says, her prophets are insolent, treacherous people. Her priests have polluted the sanctuary they have done violence to the law. Her priests have polluted. And what has happened is the ministry of the priests has become a polluted stream. The clear living water of true worship was muddied by the apathy and the impiety of her priesthood. The priest had been accepting sacrifices that were not acceptable to God. They had grown weary in their service to him.   Thus you bring an offering. Should I accept this from your hand, says the Lord? And so that's what they were doing. They were saying, oh, this is a hardship. This is difficult. We're working long hours and not getting much for it. And so they were offering to God that which he had rejected.  What had happened is the priests were not giving their best. So it was easy for them to accept from others what was not their best either. Offerings to God. Offerings to God always will reveal or expose what's in our heart. They were willing to give to God what they would never give to a friend or even a politician. There's a writer by the name of Warren Wearsby. And Wearsby once said, what does this say to professed Christians who spend hundreds of dollars annually, perhaps thousands, on gifts for themselves, their family and their friends, but give God a dollar a week when the offering plate is passed? Acceptable offerings were intended to be a picture of God's perfect offering. The Old Testament gave regulations so that it would be something that revealed what God would do through his son. So they were to be without blemish. They were to be the best that could be offered. In 1 Peter in chapter one, the apostle writes that verses 18 and 19, you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that were redeemed from the empty way of life, handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. And that was the perfect offering that God gave. And so in the Old Testament, the offerings were to foreshadow the perfect offering that God would give himself when he gave his son Jesus Christ. Jesus was not an offering that had no value. He was the offering that had all value. And so in the Old Testament, when people would give an offering to the Lord, it was to be their best because God was to give his best. Now obviously this kind of ministry had a detrimental effect on the people. They grew to believe that what they were doing was acceptable to God. And the fact is if the priest accepted this kind of service, it would seem that God must accept it too. Malachi had addressed that. It said, you have departed from the way you have caused many to stumble at the law. The priests were responsible to teach and obey the law of God. And in their negligence of his word and in their ungodly examples, God is now being dishonored. That's what happens in the New Testament sense when a pastor disregards the word of the Lord. That's what happens. I'm gonna get into this in just a moment when we look at a few things later in this chapter. But that's what happens when a pastor misrepresents the holiness of God, the righteousness of God, the sobriety of God. When a pastor takes the pulpit and makes it a place where he can show off his skills or be cool or funny constantly, it takes away from the Lord and it reduces the sobriety that one must have when we follow after Jesus Christ. We'll see that in just a moment. I'm gonna develop that with you. But the Lord had been saying that the priests were not being good examples and thus God's name is now being dishonored. God intended his people to know that he is great. He had said in chapter one, verse 11 that his name should be great among the Gentiles. And in verse 14 of the same chapter, he said, my name is to be feared among the nations. So when he said, my name shall be great and my name shall be feared, when it says my name, name in this context refers to his character as well as a reputation. The priesthood had defiled the name of God. Israel didn't serve the Lord of fear and didn't serve the Lord with humility and God was chastising the priests first for that. Now, the priests accepted these offerings and there was a kind of a practical reason why they were accepting them. And that is because they lived from the sacrifices that were being offered. You see, the priests and their families actually ate the meat that had been offered to the Lord. You see that when God was establishing sacrifice in the Old Testament in Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Old Testament, Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse one, where it says the priests who are Levites, indeed the whole tribe of Levi, are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel, they shall live on the offerings made to the Lord by fire for that is their inheritance. So when they received these offerings, they could take and they could partake of them. So they were literally living off of them. That ensured them that they would have food on their tables. If the economy was down, if taxes were high, money was scarce, they still were able to eat. So their service was to be done with the knowledge that they had deep relationship with God. And the problem is, is their relationship was to fuel their service to him. And when their relationship with God was faltering, their service to God would not be acceptable. It's interesting how in the Old Testament book of Numbers in chapter 18, verse 20, it reads that the Lord said to Aaron, the first high priest, you will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them. I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites, I am your portion. I am, you don't need land. See, the other tribes were to receive an allotment of land when they inherited the land, when they entered into the land of Israel, it was dividing into sections so that the various tribes would have a portion. But he said to the tribe, to the Levites, he said, you don't have any land.  You have something greater, you have me. I am your portion, I am your great reward. And so this relationship with God, the knowledge that God was their portion and great reward, was supposed to fuel their service to God so they, in the worship of God knowing who he was, would actually be most effective to the people because they weren't inheriting land at all, they inherited God himself. And so here in Malachi, the Lord is speaking through Malachi, the prophet, to the priests and he's rebuking them for the things that they are not doing and the bad effect of all of that. And that's what we're seeing here in Malachi leading up to chapter two. And so in verses one and two continuing, it says, now, oh priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear and if you will not take it to heart to give glory to my name, says the Lord of hosts, I will send a curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already because you do not take it to heart. So God now calls for the priests to repent. And if they don't hear, he's saying, you're gonna be judged. Now undoubtedly the priests would have denied that their apathy was harmful to God's people after all. They were still receiving and giving offerings. We're still doing it. I mean, why is it harmful to them? But God says otherwise. No, God is not pleased with what they're doing. You see, the priests didn't see serving him as a privilege. They didn't see temple ministry as a high honor. They actually were treating it with contempt. How do you communicate that? I can't. Serving God, serving God, there isn't a greater honor than that. There isn't anything more fulfilling than serving God. Somebody asked me once, when did you know you were called to serve God as a pastor? I've always given the same answer for as long as I could remember hearing the question. I've always given the same basic answer, the day I got saved. When did you know you were called? The day I got saved. Did I know what a calling was the day I got saved? No. Did I know I wanted to serve the Lord all the days of my life, the day that I got saved? Yes. Did I know how I was gonna do it? No. Did I know that I was gonna do it? Absolutely. Did I know what I wanted to do? Yes. What was that? Open the book, read it, and talk to people about Jesus. I knew that from the day I got saved. That's what I did, pretty much, from the day I got saved. First Bible study I ever tried to give, I was about three weeks old in the Lord. I didn't know a thing, except I was blind and now I see. And I wanted to tell people that. That was in my heart, that's what I wanted to do. Was I a mature believer? No, of course not, I was a baby in Christ. Did people listen some? The ones I could bribe? Yes. When I walk on these grounds, some of you have been with us every step of the way, every step, and you know what I'm gonna say. But when I look back all the way to Norwalk, where I started in 1973, when I look to Ontario, where I began a Bible study in 1974, in an apartment that sat about, in the front room, that sat about six to eight people. And from there, moving to Montclair, we still had eight to 10 people. And teaching every week, four people, five people, 10 people, never having more than 10 or 11 people in a Bible study for years, from 73 to 74 to 75, to 76 to 77, to 78, to 79, to 1980, to 1981, having 30 people and 40 people in a Bible study and blowing my mind saying, wow, we're gonna have to bring more chairs out. We got 50 people here. See, when you walk on these grounds here, some of you think they've always been here. That all these buildings and everything you see always been here, and they weren't. We have seen God here, moving here, year after year after year, and soon 35 years of pastoring this church, seeing God move in wonderful ways, seeing things built, seeing things torn down, seeing people's lives torn down, seeing them built up. There's nothing greater than serving Jesus Christ. There's nothing greater than serving the Lord. Nothing.  And he said, and you sneer at it. What an honor, what an honor to serve the Lord. But for them, serving at the altar became tiresome. They didn't value it. So what does the Lord do? Well, he calls a priest to repentance. He says, give glory to my name. He calls them to listen to what the Lord is saying, and he calls them to turn their hearts back to him. And he's giving them the opportunity to correct themselves. This is something that he does, by the way, throughout their history. Again, in Jeremiah, obviously one of my favorite prophets to quote, Jeremiah 25, verses four through seven. It says, the Lord has sent to you all his servants, the prophets rising early and sending them, but you have not listened nor inclined your ear to hear. They said, repent now everyone of his evil way and his evil doings and dwell in the land that the Lord has given to you and your fathers forever and ever. Do not go after other gods to serve them and worship them. Do not provoke me to anger with the works of your hands. And I will not harm you. Yet, you have not listened to me, says the Lord, that you might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt. You have not listened to me. I warned you. I said these things will take place and you don't listen. You see, in verse two, he says, if you will not hear and if you will not take it to heart, so disobedience to God will always result in judgment from God.  I will curse your blessings, what do you mean by that? Well, that would first refer to the blessings God promised the nation of Israel if they obey his law. When you look in the Old Testament, again, you can look at Leviticus, for example, and if you looked at chapter 26 and you read verses three through 13 in those verses in Leviticus 26, there are a variety of promises that God gives to the nation if they obey him. And so he's speaking of the blessings that he has promised. When you look in Deuteronomy chapter 28, you would see that in verses one through 14, God had said something similar to the nation of Israel, but if you read just verses one and two, Deuteronomy 28, one and two, you would read, it shall come to pass if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God to observe carefully all his commandments, which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth and all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you because you obey the voice of the Lord your God. He said, in your obedience, you do receive blessings. But he says, I have cursed. I have cursed him already. Why? Because you don't take it to heart. You're already being cursed. He was cursing their crops, cursing their seed. You see the Levites received their supply of food from the offerings, but now they're having empty tables. They were willing to receive offerings that were defective, but soon he was saying, you will receive nothing. Now, he had said in chapter three, he says in chapter three verse 11, if you repent, I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, so that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field. The Lord was already allowing the devourer to consume. The devourer more than likely is locus. They more than likely were having a plague of locus that were consuming all the grain.  I have already cursed them. So they're already going through tough times. Also, the priests had a status before the people that had been given to them by God. And he's saying, I'm gonna remove my hand from you. Now, in the New Testament, since we would say, and this is a phrase that many of us in this room are familiar with, many will say, well, that guy's ministry is anointed. He's got an anointed ministry. Well, it would seem that God is saying that he's gonna take his hand off the priests. That means his provision for them is gonna cease. Their ministry to the people will no longer be effective. Their burdensome service to God is gonna end. And their personal blessings will be taken away. I'm removing these things from you. Seeing that you're complaining about it, I'll just take these things from you. Now, what's interesting is he goes on to say this, in verse three, I will rebuke your descendants and spread refuse on your faces, the refuse of your solemn feasts. And when we'll take you away with it, then you shall know that I have sent this commandment to you that my covenant with Levi may continue, says the Lord of hosts. Now, spread refuse. Do I have to explain what he's talking about there? I don't think so.  Now, there are different ways the rebuke of descendants could work itself out. One, very basically, God could make the priests incapable of having children. Therefore, they're unable to perpetuate the priesthood. They just don't have kids. Or two, it could mean that their children, instead of being a blessing, would be a burden and a curse. It can be painful to not have children in and of itself. There are many who are their infertile couples, and they wish that they could have children. And I understand that. The desire that they have to have children, sometimes is very, very great. And in and of itself, that can be very, very painful. But it can also be painful to have children, especially children who break your heart.  We're just, we're speaking hypothetically, as if that were possible. We know that that's not possible. None of us have ever cried ourselves to sleep at night for the stupidness of our kids. Though we do, though we do pray for, and cry for other people, don't we? No, every person who has a child cries for that child, because the child's a disappointment in one form or another. Every one of us know that. I mean, I know my kids, I look at my, oh man, I have to, maybe I shouldn't, but I can say this, that I have watched my kids grow up, and then I can see myself in them.  And children break your heart, especially when that child does not follow the Lord. You see, I have great faith, and it's grown over the years, that God will care for my kids. But I haven't always had that. There have been seasons when I've said, oh Lord, what am I gonna do? Oh God, what am I gonna do? Lord, I prayed for this child that you would give me this child. Would you take him back? Not like a Christmas gift. You can't re-gift your kid. And so you start clinging to God's promises, don't you? Train up a child in the way he should go, when he is old, he will not depart from it. Lord, I prayed for this child. I dedicated this child. I've done the best that I can to raise this child. At this moment, the child doesn't seem to desire you. It's breaking my heart. Any parent who loves the Lord and loves a kid has prayed like that in one form or another, at least once. And the Lord could be saying your children will be a perpetual heartbreak to you. So on the one hand, it may be that the priests will not perpetuate their lineage, perhaps they won't have offspring. Sons who could carry on the priesthood or two. Perhaps he's saying at this point, you can have children who will be painful to you and cause great grief. He goes on and says, and spread refuse on your face. That word refuse obviously is internal waste. It speaks of dung, excrement. When an animal was offered to God, the dung was to be taken outside the camp and was burned. Exodus 2914 says the flesh of the bull with its skin and its dung, you shall burn with fire outside the camp. So when he says that I will spread refuse on your face, he's simply saying I will humiliate you. If you treat me with disrespect, I will treat you with disrespect.  He said in verse four, then you shall know that I have sent this commandment to you that my covenant with Levi may continue. Now, Levi represents priests. God's priesthood comes from the tribe of Levi. So God's desire is for them to repent that he may continue to work in the nation. He didn't want to judge them even more severely. And then he goes on to say this, and I wanna develop this with you in verses five through seven. When he speaks concerning this covenant, he said, my covenant was with him, one of life and peace. And I gave them to him that he might fear me. So he feared me and was reverent before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth and injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with me in peace and equity and turned many away from iniquity. For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge and people should seek the law from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. I wanna develop this with you. Malachi at this point is revealing the true marks of a minister of the Lord. If anybody in this room has a sense, any man has a sense of a call to pastoral ministry and perhaps I have some who are here, these are things that are very important for you to listen to, especially if you have a heart to be a pastoral minister. These are things that are very, very practical. And I'll show you some things in a practical way because the Lord outlined some things here that I think we can learn from, things that are very important, especially in ministry. The first thing that he's pointing to is a proper relationship with the Lord is marked by reverence. A proper relationship with the Lord is marked by what is called the fear of the Lord. So a genuine minister has a reverence for God. A genuine minister has a reverence for the Lord. In the book of Titus, in chapter one, verse eight, when the apostle Paul is writing concerning the qualifications of a leader in the church, of a bishop, the word bishop is an overseer. It's where you get the word episcopal from. Episcopos is what it is in the Greek language. It speaks of an overseer and when he speaks concerning the bishop or the overseer, which is also a word that we use today when we speak of a pastor. So when he's given the qualifications of a pastor or a pastoral minister, he says that this bishop is to be sober-minded, just and holy. So that's one of the things that you, the church, you have an obligation to evaluate my life with. Whether or not that's true. Whether or not you see those earmarks in me. It's nothing wrong, by the way, with people looking at a pastor's life to see whether these things are so. The Bible gives qualifications for leadership. And you don't just put a novice into ministry because if they become proud, they can fall into the condemnation of Satan who fell by pride and a bad leader brings a bad taste of the gentile, non-believers, a bad taste in the mouth for them concerning Christianity, especially concerning Jesus Christ. So one of the things that a minister is to do and what the priests were supposed to do is they were to have the fear of the Lord. You see, true knowledge of God begins with the fear of the Lord. Psalm 111, verse 10 simply says, "'The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.'" And so if a man has a relationship with the Lord, if he is a true minister, it's going to be first marked by reverence, the fear of the Lord. Secondly, he speaks of the law of truth being in his mouth and injustice is not found on his lips. A second thing is there's a commitment to the word of God. The law of truth is in his mouth. There's a commitment to the word of God. This translates to God's word being shared with people. And minister, God's word is to be shared with people and ministers are not to mix truth with error and they are not to dilute the message of God. I have to be careful because this is a real passion of binding and it could be misunderstood. I was mentioning on Sunday, some of you were with me on Sunday about a particular program I was watching and I was watching a man speaking to a stadium filled with people and misquoting scripture. And I use that as an illustration. It's interesting. It just seems anytime I turn the TV on I can see it because I did it again today listening to somebody else. If I use this name, which I don't want to because I don't want to malign the person. I don't have enough time to explain why this is a great concern. Therefore, I don't want to use the name without giving a more full explanation but I will say this. I will say that today. Marie and I were watching a particular program because I had heard this person's name used and I've heard of him but don't know anything of his ministry. Not very much anyway. So I put on his program to hear him teach and he was teaching a portion of scripture out of First Samuel. And as he was sharing, he was sharing concerning some spiritual principles. He said he found from the portion of scripture and I put it on pause and I turned to my wife and I said as popular as this young man may be and as cool as he really is, he's teaching error. God did not say that. What he is saying is not found in that scripture but when you look at the people they're all nodding their head and cheering along with them. And I told Marie, I said, that's the problem with the church today. When you don't feed them the word of God and give them scripture to develop their discernment, they have none. And so if it sounds good and he looks very confident when he says it, it must be truth. We're living in an age and forgive me, this has always been the heartbeat of my ministry. We're living in an age where error is presented and the church has no discernment and if it doesn't entertain them, they don't want any part of what they're hearing even though it's true. And they would just as soon hear the false because it tastes so good going down. And it's dangerous, it's dangerous. There is so much error being presented in the name of God. But a minister, well he says the law of truth is in his mouth. There's a commitment to God's word. In 2 Corinthians chapter four verses one and two, Paul said it like this. He said, therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. Rather, we have renounced secret in shameful ways. We do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly, we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. Ministers are to faithfully present the word of God to people. 1 Thessalonians two verses three and four, the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you. On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God who tests our hearts. Ministers are to present God's word to people. Third, he says, he walked with me in peace and equity and turned many away from iniquity. A minister has a developing fellowship with God that produces godliness and evangelism. Fellowship with God produces a lifestyle as well as a passion for others to know him. The Bible tells us in Proverbs 11 verse 30, he who wins souls is wise. In Psalm 39 verse three, my heart grew hot within me as I meditated, the fire burned, then I spoke with my tongue. That's a passion that comes out. You might want to do something, you might want to, if you can, you can Google this, sinners in the hands of an angry God, one of the most famous messages ever preached in the United States, sinners in the hands of an angry God. If you read it, and I read it not that long ago, if you read it doesn't take that long, you would say this message would never be preached in any pulpit in the United States today. It's such a downer. It doesn't tell me how to get wealthy. It doesn't tell me how to overcome friends who don't like me. It doesn't tell me how to have a good day. It actually warns me against hell. It warns me against becoming judgment. When the preacher gave this message, he didn't even want to give it. He was in a city where the people there were so anti-Christ that he just came in and historians say that he actually held his sermon, he used to read the sermon in his hands and he leaned against a pillar there and he just read it nonchalantly. It's like when Jonah went through yet 40 days, Nineveh shall be destroyed is one of those things where he was just kind of just saying it, but as he was reading his sermon, the fire of God began to fall and the people who were there began to tremble and began to cry and began to be afraid because God was using these words that were being spoken in a monotone and an entire congregation of people that were there to hear him, really some to mock him, came to a full on faith in Jesus Christ because he was warning them of the judgment to come. A minister has a heart for the Lord and evangelism and a passion. He says in verse seven, the lips of a priest should keep knowledge and people should seek the law. Should seek the law of the Lord. They should seek the law of the Lord from him. The law from his mouth, he's the messenger of the Lord of hosts. A genuine minister values God's word and here's an important point and guards it from distortion and error. When it says the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, the word keep means to guard. It speaks of observing and guarding. It means to protect. When it speaks of knowledge, the word knowledge speaks of understanding. And what are you saying? The lips of a priest should keep knowledge and people should seek the law from him. Well, the bottom line is is the priest's responsibility is to make sure that the word goes forth as God would have it to be heard. You see, the result of guarding God's word and exhibiting a passion for its truth earns people's trust. And the people will come to hear the word from that person because they know they can trust that he's giving them the word of God. People should use discernment, but they should know that they can seek the law from this person's lips. Because they see that, and I want you to notice this, they see that he is what is called a messenger of the Lord. He is not bringing his own opinions. He is a messenger of the Lord. And again, I think in this generation, this age of the church, some don't realize that this word that we're looking at right now is the word of the Lord.  I have found it interesting over the years as somebody who never reads the Bible, never reads the Bible, never has really studied, never taught a single Bible study because they never read the Bible. But they have all kinds of opinions as to why that person speaking there is wrong. They correct teaching that they have no understanding of. It happens quite often. Because, well, after all, we're a Google generation, right? If we want to know anything, we just ask Google and Google tells us and we become experts, right? I mean, that's how it works. So you don't have to get on your face and weep before the Lord and ask God to give you discernment and understanding. You don't have to do that. All you need to do is ask Google a question and, you know, what does it mean? And then you have all these answers prepared. There are quite a number of people like that. Bottom line is the priest is to be regarded as one who has treasured and guarded the word and has presented it. And thus the people can trust him and they will come to him and ask for God's word. What does God's word say concerning these things? He goes on in verse eight and he says, you have departed from the way. You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts. Therefore, I also have made you contemptible and base before all the people because you have not kept my ways. You have shown partiality in the law. Instead of being a blessing to the people, teaching them how to worship, you have stumbled them. You are what are called toxic messengers. And I'm judging you. In Proverbs 1121, be sure of this, the wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free. Isaiah 50 verses 16 and 17, to the wicked, God says, what right have you to declare my statutes or to take my covenant in your mouth, seeing you hate instruction and cast my words behind you? He says, you have departed from the way and you have caused many to stumble at the law. Ministers who depart from God's word cause unbelievers to reject Jesus and believers to stumble. I was sharing with my staff in staff devotions yesterday. I was about 34 years old and a brother who was in our church, he was an older guy, he was in his 40s. Let's see, I was 34. So that's old, isn't it? When I first heard Chuck Smith, Chuck Smith was 43. And I thought he was an old man, because I was 20. And you know that, you know how that is. I mean, you're young and anybody 20 years old, that's an old man, he's as old as my dad. Right, so I'm now about 34. I still remember this, I was in my front yard and I see a car driving by and I was watering and the car slows down, backs up and pulls over. And I'm looking and this fella climbs out and comes walking. Hi, Pastor Dave, his name is George, I knew him, he was from our church. I said, hi George, how are you? He said, I'm fine, I was on my way home, I just, I didn't know you lived here, I just was driving by, I just thought I'd say hi. I said, how you doing? We visited for a moment and he said this to me, I'll never forget the conversation, never forget it. George said to me, you know, Pastor, you know how you say how much you love your Pastor, Chuck, I said, yeah, he says, I want you to know that's how I love you and I smiled at him and I said, in my heart, no way. It's a fact, you could not love me as much as I love my Pastor, but I certainly appreciate you saying that. You just don't know how much I love my Pastor. But I smiled and I said, really? He said, yeah, I said, I truly appreciate that, thank you. And he did, he loved, he loved us, he loved us. I got a phone call, I was in the office and George is in the hospital, could you go and pay a visit? And I said, well, of course.  And she said, yes. She got babysitter to watch our small children at that time and off we went to West Cabina, to the hospital that George was, we went to the front, we said where's George Casillas? And they said he's in a particular place in the hospital. We climbed on the elevator, we went up to the floor, they said he was at and I still remember the elevator doors opening and the whole area was pitch black. There was just, there were emergency lights, but the whole floor was dark and I, so we stood at the entrance exit of the elevator, took a step out and we're looking around and I'm thinking, what floor is this? And a doctor comes walking down the hall and runs into us and he acts like surprised and so he says, what are you doing here? And I said, oh, I'm a pastor, I'm here to see one of the members of my fellowship, his name is George. He said, you haven't heard? And I said, heard what? He said, George just died.  I heard the word died and there's his wife and she has this look in her face and again, I'm 34 years old, the young man. And I'm looking at this woman who just lost her husband. We go to her house. I still remember being in her kitchen, standing and looking out a window up the street. I see a little boy around 12 years, around 12 years old at the time, whenever suns.  He's got his little backpack and he's walking down the street and I'm looking at this 12 year old boy and I turn to his mama and I say, would you like me to stay here with you? And she says, no, I have to tell him myself.  And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking that little boy's coming in to hear the news that no child should hear, not at 12. We have a young man in our church at one time. His name was Marcel. Marcel was like a son to me. As a matter of fact, we went to Israel on one occasion and his mama came up to me and said, can you talk to Marcel? He's not listening to me. And I still remember Marcel, he had his arms folded and he just give me this look like. And I said, oh, come on Marcel. And had a talk with him. Marcel graduated high school and went to college. Well, he was going to school. He came down with cancer and it was progressing. And here in this room, I used to have an office in the back when we had Sunday services in here. Marcel, because he was taking chemotherapy, couldn't be out in the congregation with people because he could become ill with anything that they might have. So he would sit in my office with me in between services and I would visit with him. And then he'd watch the service on TV and he did that every Sunday.  Can you come? And Marie and I go to the house where he was living with his brand new wife.  And the nurse was taking care of his body.  And we say, of course.  She says he's cold and she puts a blanket over him. She hadn't processed, my son just died. A few months before I married him and then a few months later I buried him. The nurse comes walking into the front room where we are. She brings his wedding ring.  When she says that, this little girl falls on her face on the carpet and begins to scream in pain and my wife is seated next to me and I turn to Marie because two or three of the women the minute this little girl hit the ground and she collapsed on the ground, her mama and two other ladies grabbed her and mama was starting to rock this baby. The daughter, a widow, a few months married, crying with such pain. I turned to Marie and I say, pray for him. This is a moment when a woman should minister to women, pray for him. Marie says, why don't I say pray for him? Marie kneels down, I still remember that holy moment. She prays, God of comfort bring comfort to this precious land. You want to know where passion comes from. It comes from pain, it comes from pain. Sometimes when I teach, the passion is so strong, it can come off like judgment or harshness and it's not that at all, it's pain. I've seen it, I've seen it. I hear stories every week, every week. The little girl who approaches me and says to me, a college student says to me, can you pray for me?  The man who approaches me and says, pastor, pray for me. I have to tell my children I'm gonna die of cancer, I don't know how to tell, pray for me. The mama who brings a little boy to me and says, will you pray for my son because his dad told him yesterday he doesn't love him. And I see this beautiful little boy's shoulders slump into tears rolled down his face. And I hold him in my arms and rock him. Pain, the burden of the word of the Lord. Where does it come from? It comes from seeing people hurt who could have been blessed but decided to reject. It's the voice of one crying in the wilderness because in the wilderness of sin, people don't sometimes listen very carefully. That's ministry. So if I see somebody on TV saying, oh, your destiny is determined by the thoughts of your heart. Or when I hear somebody saying something that is not scripturally sound. And I come and share it with you. Some say, why do you get upset? It's because it destroys people's walks with God because they're dishonoring the Lord and despising his name. It's not that I'm perfect, forgive me if it ever sounds that I think I am, I know I'm not. But I do have a passion for truth, for truth. Because it is the truth that set you free. It's the truth that set you free. You need that, you do. And so that's a glimpse inside the cup of a minister's heart. Those are the things that go into the minister's ministry. And Malachi had a heart and a heart for God. He wanted the children of Israel to worship God because that's God's command and God's desire. And yet they're not.  It cannot go on. But God help us not to take his grace for granted.


Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Aloha and welcome to Out and About on the Think Tech Live streaming network series. I'm your host, Winston Welch, and I am delighted you're joining us today. Where every other week we explore a variety of topics, organization, events, and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country, and world. Joining me in the studio today, I am most pleased to have Sean Hamamoto and James Suzuki from the Honolulu Neighborhood Commission office. So welcome to the show today, gentlemen. Thank you, Winston. It's a pleasure to have you here. I think a lot of people may not even know that the neighborhood boards exist. And what is the neighborhood boards? So if you could start by telling us what is the neighborhood board commission, what does it do? That's a great question and a great place to start. Well, very briefly, this neighborhood commission was started over 40 years ago back in the early 1970s under the Frank Fosse administration. And at that time, the administration amended the city charter to create the neighborhood commission office with the purpose of being to increase public participation in the decisions of government. So it was, was this modeled after another city or another state or country that you were? You know, to that I am not sure, but I can tell you we've done research and I can say that this is a very unique system we have here in Honolulu. We are the only county in the state of Hawaii that has such a system. And when I tried looking on the mainland US for similar type board systems, I could find like maybe a couple. I know like Seattle has one and there was maybe another in Michigan, but it just seems that this type of community grassroots board system, you know, in Honolulu, we're very lucky to have this system. That's interesting. So I was looking online and it shows about 36 different neighborhood boards, I guess. Areas. Areas. So the island is divided into 36 roughly. Is it by population or by sort of historical district? Yes, it's by population and it's something that the neighborhood commission, the commissioners actually decide upon, but you're correct. We do have 36 neighborhood board areas within that we have 33 active neighborhood boards. Now, we do have a couple of areas that are not active and these are primarily like the industrial areas, like for example, Sand Island where there's not too many people. Or the airport. Exactly. But most of our regular living communities all have neighborhood boards around this whole island. You said the neighborhood commission decides that. What is the neighborhood commission? So the neighborhood commission is the commission that we work with. They're a board of volunteers, some appointed by the mayor, some appointed by the city council. Basically they set policy. They are responsible for amending or reviewing the neighborhood plan, which is basically our Bible or general procedures. And they also adjudicate any complaints that come out. So that's the role of the commission. So we work with them in partnership to help oversee all 33 boards around our island. Okay, so they're sort of a civilian oversight component. Yes, that's a good way to put it. And then they're appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the city council. And how many people are on that commission? Currently, we have seven. Seven, is that the full number? Yes. Okay. And then the neighborhood boards are roughly divided by population. Yes, roughly. That's something the commission currently they're looking at, because as you know, with all the new developments in communities, our demographics have changed. So I think we need to change with the times. And so I know that's something that the commission will be looking at in the next year or two, is to see if the current lines are still appropriate or relevant. And if not, what can we do to adjust it? Okay. And so we've got these neighborhood boards. It's about 33 neighborhood boards. Can you tell us, James, what is the role of the neighborhood board? So if we go for each neighborhood, we've got 33 of these spaced around the island. What does the neighborhood board do? I think most essentially our neighborhood boards are like town halls, where this gives the community a chance to come and talk face to face with the people who affect change around them. We have representatives from the police department who are there every meeting. We have representatives from the fire department. We have a board of water supply rep who comes and reports on just main breaks in the area and announcements on construction and infrastructure improvements in the area. So it's just a chance for the community come and ask questions about what's going on in their neighborhoods. And it also gives them a chance to talk to their legislators. We have a representative from the mayor's office. We have a representative from the governor's office. All our state reps, they're a state house representative. They're all there. The state senators are there. So it just gives a chance for just the community to communicate with the people who represent them. And it's really good to see the differences in talking to someone face to face and see how seriously they're taking you rather than electronically or over the phone. So you go to an average meeting. It was about once a month on average. All boards meet on average about once a month. And the meetings, depending on the agenda, anywhere from two to three hours, give or take, two to three hours. Okay. And in full disclosure, I am a member of neighborhood board five, which is St. Louis Heights, Kapahulu Diamond Head, which is, I always saw the kind of a strange breakdown of the area. I can see like Diamond Head in Kapahulu, but the St. Louis Heights part kind of throws me every time. It's a sort of an Ahupua'a approach, but a little bit different. And I wondered how that got decided. That's a very good question. I'm sure that's back in history. Some place in the 1970s or 80s when that board was formed. That's exactly what Sean said earlier about how the neighborhood commission are looking at areas to maybe further divide them and have them create their own neighborhood boards, just like the Makakilo area is combined with the whole Kapahulu area subdivision, which is there another area that's looking to just kind of divide further to be able to more centered around each of their communities.   Basically, all you need to be is over 18 years of age, live in the district and be a registered voter. You have to be a registered voter. Actually, well, you need to be a registered voter to vote, but actually to actually run on the board, you don't, you just have to be over 18 and live in the district. So, you know, open to students, even military, anyone that lives in the district. I think it's a great system where we want to be as inclusive as possible. Can you be a green card holder and be on the board? Yes. As long as you're a resident in the district and over 18. Okay. That's awesome. So it is quite inclusive. Yes. And how many people are on each board? Again, it varies from board to board. Some boards may have as few as maybe nine or so other boards up to 19. How is that decided? And again, it's by decided by the commission based on the population and in determining that it's kind of a complicated process where they work with information from, you know, the Census Bureau and so forth to try to figure that out. But I'm sure there's some type of formula they have to figure that out. So maybe that's a way that they've been able to feel like there's a bit more proportional representation is with the areas that are growing. They might add some people in the smaller areas, might be a little bit of a smaller board. Exactly. Then in the neighborhood board office, how many of you all are in the office? So we're a relatively small office, including myself. There's about 14 of us all together.  So it keeps us quite busy. But, you know, it's a great team. 14 of you. 14 of us all together. Okay. And how many of those are we? We've got a terrific neighborhood assistant. Yes. Thomas is ours. And he's has a hard job because he's kind of, you know, set up everything and try and follow everything and help with things like rubber tools and what's appropriate or what can or can't be done. It's kind of, I don't want to say landmine to walk through, but it's hard to always know that because people get passionate about things. He'll give advice to our chair on things about this needs to do this or that or the other. How many neighborhood assistants are there like that? So we have about seven neighborhood assistants on staff. The rest of our staff consist of our admin clerical staff. We have Jefflin and Marcy. Then we have our PR team, which is James and Dylan over there. Then I have a deputy and another community relations specialist. So, you know, we're all over the place every day. It keeps us busy, but we all love it. Now, do you answer to the mayor's office or how does, yeah, well, definitely, you know, I am as well as our whole office. We're all appointed by the mayor. So I report directly to the managing director's office. Oh, you do.  Yes, we're all appointees. None of us are civil service. Okay. So, but hopefully you just get to keep your jobs after. Yeah, we'll see. So when people are running for a board position, because these are all elected positions, how often does that happen and what's the procedure for that? Okay. Good question. So we have our board elections on odd number years every two years. So our next election is coming up next year in 2019. So maybe we can come on again to promote that as it gets nearer. Absolutely, absolutely. But yeah, so we are, I think this fall we're going to start just behind the scenes administratively getting everything set for the elections. So that would be coming up the next year. Yes, January or February. Now, these elections are not done with paper ballots. Yes. So this was a conscious effort on our part one, two, it's good for the environment. We mean an effort to try to save paper. And also just because we are in the digital age now, and it does save us money. So I can say that the neighborhood board elections went online several years ago, I believe back in 2009. What was different in the most recent neighborhood board election was that instead of we usually have to contract out services to run these elections. But what we did differently last year was we actually worked in-house with our own Department of Information Technology to run the elections in-house as opposed to going to work to our vendor. And I believe that saved us about $30,000 or $40,000 taxpayer money. And so because it was relatively very successful, we're going to do that again. Now, how do people even know that these elections are happening? And how would they become candidates or get their names out there if they're interested in that? Yes. So as the time draws near, we will be doing a big public outreach push. We put in ads in the newspaper midweek. We put advertisements in our city buses. We buy advertisements on our city buses. We make appointments with a lot of the network morning shows to go in the morning to talk about it. Maybe we'll come here again, putting the words out just through our newsletters. Anyway, we can social media to get the word out. So on average, you said between nine and 19 people on a board, I think ours has 15. So you're looking at hundreds of people that are serving. Yes. I would say in total, there's about roughly 430 volunteer board members on this island. So that's quite a bit. And is every board up for election every time? Yes. Yes. So it's like the House of Representatives. Everyone's every two years. Yes. Do you have any problem finding people to run for these? You know, I think it depends on the area. You know, in certain areas can be quite competitive. In other areas, not so much. It really depends on the community. It depends on the community. So how are there vacant spots right now on any of the boards at your work? Yes. So I know we do have some vacancies. They are listed on our website.  They don't get paid a dime. But yet, you know, they volunteer quite a significant amount of time not only to attend these meetings monthly, but also, you know, to be in contact with their community. And what happens is, you know, sometimes people for a variety of reasons, I think the most common reason we have gotten for people resigning from boards is that simply they move out of the district. That's a common reason. And then also you have a change in lifestyles, you job, you know, have to take care of family, things like that. So there are a variety of reasons. But more often than not, we can find people to take their place in the community. So and that happens, I think I would encourage people to go onto your website, which is, yes, a website. And what is the neighborhood board website? So just Honolulu.gov slash nco. And then you can follow the links. We have a whole bunch of tabs on the left side. And you just click the neighborhood board tab. And then it will have, we have a board vacancy list. Okay. Yeah. So it's just another link. You hit it. And then we'll list the boards that have all the vacancies available and what sub districts, because some of these neighborhood boards are further divided just to provide each area within each community or neighborhood board for the representation by people who live in their certain sub districts. And that's the case in mine too. Exactly. So if there is a break, we can go there, we can go to the meeting, talk to the chair and say I'm interested in this. And then the chair presents your sort of background. Exactly, exactly. We have volunteers who come up and have themselves acknowledged by the chair, who they in turn introduce themselves to everybody. They kind of give everyone a brief bio about themselves. And then usually a board member in most times will just nominate them to become part of the board. Because what in my experience is all boards want to be have full staffing and have fully completed throughout their whole community. So it's rare that we ever get a board that's never welcoming volunteers. So that's why whenever we're out in the community and we're in areas where neighborhood boards have vacancies, we make it a very big conscious effort for us to tell the community members in each area that there are neighborhood board seats open and please go and volunteer in their neighborhoods. And they can also get their meeting minutes and agenda items on for each of the neighborhood boards as well online at honolulu.gov slash nco. And then go down from there. So we're going to take a very short break here, but I am Winston Welch. This is out and about on the Think Tech Live streaming network series. And today we're talking with Sean Hamamoto, the executive director and James Schizuski, our public relations specialist from the Honolulu neighborhood commission office. We'll be back in a minute. So stay tuned for more of the story. I'm Winston Welch and this is out and about on the Think Tech streaming network series. We're talking with Sean Hamamoto and James Schizuski from the neighborhood commission office. And I appreciate you both again for being here and also for James Whitzel, another public relations specialist over at the neighborhood commission office for getting this together. So John, you got a background. You went to Punahou. Yes. You got a BA in psychology from HPU. Yes. Does that help you in your job? Every day. And before that, you worked with the mayor's and managing director's office as a specialist assistant. Correct. And that was with this current administration? Yes. Okay. So then you were a liaison with the city council? Yes, I was a city council liaison. Okay. So I worked with the city council and that must have been quite an interesting job in and of itself, too. Never a dull moment. Yeah, I bet. So when did you move over and take the position that you're at right now? It was almost three years ago. I believe I started this position August 15, 2015. So it's been three years. Okay. And when you did that, you used to serve on a neighborhood board yourself? Yes. That's correct. I was a former member of the downtown Chinatown neighborhood board number 13 back in 2011, I believe. Okay.  Yes. So it was only one term, but I loved it. But I just feel it's a blessing that I'm in this position and I can continue working with the neighborhood boards. Was it a factor that you had been on a neighborhood board that got you also into this position considering the different roles you'd been playing in administration? I think that may have been a factor. In addition, I've been in government most of my career. So even prior to that, I worked for the state senate before the city council. So I've been a state senate rep to the board. I've been a city council rep to the board. I was even a mayor's rep to the board. The first board meeting I ever went to was back in 1999. Okay. So I've had actually a lot of experience with neighborhood boards prior to me taking this position. So you have played a variety of things connected with this. Yes. You didn't even know it in many ways. Actually, to be honest, it's a dream come true. I feel like I've come full circle in my career to come to this point to actually heading the office. A system that I've admired from the very the first time I've ever walked into a neighborhood board meeting back in 1999. I was a fan. I thought this was the greatest system ever. The second thing I thought, why aren't more people here? I just thought it was so great. Yeah. A great community resource. So no, I'm very fortunate to be in this position. I enjoy working with the community. And where do you think the hardest job was? Was it being a state representative or the mayor's representative or in the role that you have now? You know, I would say each role I've had had its challenges, but I can say of all my roles, I'm definitely enjoying this the best. Okay. I just feel like this is a peak for me. Okay. I'm really happy to be here.  You grew up in the Kapahulu area and went to Damien Memorial High School over witches in Kalihi, isn't it? Okay. And just right by the, I always call it the castle, when it's the Bishop Museum, of course. And then you went on to UH Manoa, got a degree in political science and minored in sociology. Has that helped you a lot in the work that you do? Oh, yes. I mean, I think it's all derived in my origin and are just in my origin of wanting to improve my community. So I mean, I've just always been open and trying to learn as much as I can about the system in which we can help improve our own communities across the island. I think that that's an important point is that, you know, you've got great people like you that really care about our community, devoted civil servants that are really, you're called to something greater, which is wanting to have an involved civic society where the neighborhood board for me is emblematic of that really fundamental grassroots participation in having community members being able to come and in their community and have their voices be heard on a variety of issues. Like you said, everybody comes, your state reps come, the senators, the representatives, the mayor's rep comes. And those are actually, they're commissioners, aren't they for the mayor's rep? Actually, well, they're cabinet members. So most of the mayor's reps are either the directors or deputy directors of the various city departments we have. Are you a mayor's rep in any of them? No, because I'm heading the commission that that would be too much of a conflict. So once I took this position, so prior to this position when I was at the MD's office, I was a mayor's rep. But once I got this position, I had to Okay.  Do you ever? I was. I mean, and I really love our neighborhood assistants that we have on staff now. And I'm glad I was able to start as a neighborhood assistant because the ability to see communities take part in improving itself is something I treasure and something I try and spread as I'm out in the community putting up posters and flyers about every neighborhood's own meetings once a month. I go and I try and explain the resources available at these neighborhood board meetings. I mean, these mayor's reps, the lengths they go to to get responses for community members concerns from broken cracks in the sidewalks to a broken drinking fountain to just why don't we have a crosswalk here. The Department of Transportation will do a study just to come back to that one concern from one community member from one neighborhood board. And if you really extrapolate that to all of the neighborhood boards across the island, our city is working very hard to make sure our community is heard. Yeah. And at that very local level where people know why the crosswalk needs to be just at that place. Yeah, I know they took out the ongoing thing on date street where they're just redoing it. And my concern was the speed limit was too high because if it's as 25 people will go 40. And so, you know, but we have people directly there to be able to answer those questions. It may not be to our satisfaction because we do live in a society that allows for the best ideas, hopefully to bubble to the top. But at least we can we have a place to air those ideas and be heard. So I've been really appreciative of that. A lot of people can't always get to the neighborhood board meetings. They're generally held at night or always held at night. Yes. Okay. And they're on a weeknight. Yes. Okay. And most of them are on OLL. I would say most of them, like I said, we have 33 active boards. We have near about 30 of them being broadcasts or recorded and we broadcast on OLL. So the vast majority of them do choose to be televised. Do you have any idea how many people are watching those OLL broadcasts? You know, I'm not sure. I actually would like to talk to a little to see if I could get that metric because it would be interesting to see. But I do think it's a fantastic resource because, you know, a lot of these meetings, as you said, they are at night.  I could see where it may be difficult for them to physically attend these meetings. And that's why I think it's so great that OLL records these so that way the community, at their own convenience, from the comfort of their home, can either access these recordings via the internet or watch the replays on TV on OLL. So I think it's a great program. Can they find those links on your website as well? Or do they have to go to OLL's website? Yes. We have a link on our website. And you can also go to the OLL website as well. So either place or you can always feel free to just to call us and we'll be able to help you. 768-3710. 768-3710. 3710. And that's the Neighborhood Commission Office. Yes. Be happy to hear from you. And you are happy to hear from them. You guys actually answered the phone, which I really appreciate too. So people have an ability to also send in testimony or request or something like that. Is that right James? How does that work? Exactly. So we allow community members to provide testimony, which we then forward to the board chairs who circulate that amongst the board members themselves. And in certain cases, chairs will read the testimony aloud. And along with the video archive that's on our website, we also have our very talented neighborhood assistants who are there taking notes the whole meeting. They record the meetings and then their job is to go back and pretty much summarize our meetings. I mean, we're required by sunshine law to 30 days after the meeting, have a written record of some summation of what happened at the meeting when it comes to decisions and what's going on, what was discussed. That's an interesting point. You mentioned the sunshine laws. So these boards are subject to the same laws? Absolutely. Okay. So that is why one objective of this board is to be transparent, which I believe is very important. So pursuant to the sunshine law, we are required to publicly post every board agenda a week in advance of the meeting. So the public can know exactly what's going to be discussed. And as James says, we are then required to have available minutes of the meeting so the public can see exactly who voted or how the board voted on certain issues and so forth. And that's why I think the O'Lelow component is also really important because talk about sunshine. When you're being recorded, there's not, you either said it or you didn't, right? It's a lot easier to watch it than to read a transcription, which are not transcription, but notes. The minutes, yes. The minutes are, as accurate as they're going to get, but nevertheless, I liked watching the, I like watching things from Waianae or from Waikai or the North Shore and see what are their issues up there and how are they, what are they talking about and how do they run their boards and how spicier their boards compared to my board. And you've probably seen some things getting fairly heated over the course of the years. Yes. And to an extent, it is understandable because people are passionate about their communities, which they should be. And so we have the neighborhood board, we encourage participation. Everybody has a right to their own opinion and everyone has a right to express that opinion. We just ask that it be done in a professional and civil manner, but definitely the more participation, the better. And I think that people are respectful, especially here in Hawaii. We realize that we live on an island. We've all got to get along together. And this is a, you know, but our chair does a great job. He's got a hard job because he's got to keep people in order and keep the time. And sometimes occasionally he'll pound his point of order and say, you know, point of order or whatever it is that he needs to do. But people by and large are very respectful because they're being heard. Yes. And if they didn't think they weren't being heard, maybe they wouldn't be as respectful. But I think because their concerns are being listened to at this basic level by not only other board members on the neighborhood board, but other members of, you know, going up the food chain. So I think it's really a wonderful system that we've got here. Do you think that it strengthens the neighborhoods to have these neighborhood boards? Absolutely. Okay.  And I can think of no other better way to bring a community together, common issues, common concerns. On this political level. Exactly. I mean, I would love to see more tie-in with other things on our boards, like with Rotary or the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts or, yeah. And that's part of my job as the part of the PR team at our office is that we're constantly visiting Lions Clubs and Rotary Clubs and classrooms and college classrooms just to try and get as many people involved as we can. I mean, we're always encouraging people to participate and it's truly a blessing just to be part of this neighborhood board system. And again, if people want more information, they can visit your website, which is Honolulu.gov.nco or they can call you at 768-3710. Well, gentlemen, like I said, we are, we always run out of time too quickly, but it has been a delight to have you here today and I sincerely appreciate you coming down. So unfortunately, we are out of time and so we are going to have to wrap it up. But I would like to invite you back again certainly so we can talk some more about different things and maybe some specific examples. But for right now, we're going to have to wrap it up. I'm Winston Welch out and about ThinkTech Livestreaming Network series. We've been talking with Sean Hamamoto, the executive director and James Skizewski from the Neighborhood Commission Office of Honolulu. With that, we appreciate you tuning in. We welcome your feedback. We'd like to thank our broadcast engineer, Brandi Lima, our technical producer, Ian Davidson and our floor manager, Ray Sangaling and the J-Fai Delhoop, our executive director who puts it all together. I'll see you here every other Monday at 3 p.m. for more out and about on ThinkTech Hawaii. Aloha everyone.


سان پتورا جی، تریدو شرمہ ممبر پارلمن، کمد حالیوال جی، ادھا سینیر لیڈرس who are sitting on the stage I have seen members brothers and sisters. I can also see some children. So all of you, I'd like to welcome all of you and thank you for coming here today. I believe there are also some people who have not been able to come because the hall is full. So I was asking where do the Indian weddings happen over here in such a small hall. It's an honour for me to come here and speak to you.  The reason is that our government simply does not allow any idea of the opposition, any concept of the opposition to be discussed. Same happens in parliament house. When there are important things that we need to speak about, demonetization, GST, the fact that the Chinese are sitting inside our territory. When we try to raise these questions, we're not allowed to raise them in the house. It's a fact. It's shameful but it's true. And this is not the India that all of us are used to. Our country is an open country where we pride ourselves on our intelligence, respect each other's opinions, listen to each other and that atmosphere has been destroyed. You can see the narrative in the media and the reason we were forced to walk across India, the Bharat Yatra was because all the institutions that protect the democracy that allow people to speak that allow an expression of voice are captured by the BJP. And so we decided that a good way to think about it, a good way to act would be to go directly to the people of India and do what used to be a tradition called the Yatra. Yatra is not just a walk across the country. Many great people in India have gone on a Yatra. Of course the most famous Yatra was the one done by the father of the nation Mahatma Gandhi. But there have been others. Vivekananda Ji apparently walked across the country. My Sikh friends here Guru Nanak Ji walked across the country. So there is a list of people who have used this idea of the Yatra and the Yatra is actually introspection. It is an attempt to understand what is going on in the country, an attempt to listen to people but also an attempt to understand the voice of the people and express the voice. So to the wonderful experience for me I started in Kanyakumari and we went all the way to Kashmir. Thousands of kilometers in the heat and rain in the snow and we got to understand our country in great detail.  What's your name? Sambaratsingh. So kids like Sambaratsingh we met thousands of them. We met youngsters who are unemployed asking, the most interesting thing was that the biggest issues in India today are unemployment, price rise and the violence that Indian women face. That third one is a hidden issue, nobody speaks about it. But when you walk across India and you talk to people, those are the three things that you hear. Most women complaining about the violence that they are facing, the fact that they are worried to walk on the streets of our country, huge amount of unemployment and price rise and the concentration of wealth. You know one or two business people controlling pretty much every business in Tristia. Everybody knows the name. He's become especially famous lately. You can see a lot of reports about his wealth. You can see that and it's at the expense of the Indian people because when there is no competition in the country and one person is making all the money because of his political connections, the strength of the country, the energy of the country is wasted and weakened. So one of the things that we've been pushing is that we need to allow as many youngsters who want to enter business to enter business. We need to support all of them. We need to make sure that the banking system doesn't just work for one or two people but works for youngsters for millions of people who want to build a business. These are the type of things that we discussed on the Yatra and it's a very good experience also. I'd like to thank many of you who walked with us. You came from different parts of the world, you came from England, you came from the United States, from Canada, from Japan, from all over the world people came and walked with us. So that helped us. You helped us with your support and your energy so that I'd like to thank all of you for that. So that was the experience of the Yatra. And the interesting thing to me was that what the people of India were saying, unemployment, prices, concentration of wealth, Mr. Adhani, it's not in the media at all. In the media we see anger, hatred, violence, then we see Bollywood, Ashwarya Rai, Salman Khan, Cricket, we see all these things but we don't see the real issues that the people of India are facing. So that was quite a learning experience for me. The other thing that some of the speakers alluded to, we walked for almost 4,000 km. It was a huge effort. 5 or 6 people died while we were walking. One of our members of parliament had a heart attack in Punjab and die. So there was also quite a lot of tragedy taking place. People getting injured, someone falling, breaking an arm or breaking a leg. And in the first 5 or 6 days, I started to ask myself what is my role in the Yatra. What do I have to do? And after thinking about it for a while, I decided that my role was that whoever came into the Yatra, regardless of whether they were rich or poor, young or old, male or female, I decided that my role would be to make them feel that when they walked inside the room, when they entered, the Yatra and they came to speak to us that they should feel that they had come back home. They should get a feeling that they had come back home and they were not speaking to a politician but they were speaking to their brother, their friend. That is the idea I had and I told the people who were working with me that listen, we have to respect every single person who comes and he has to feel that he has come home. And when he leaves, he must feel that he has left home, that we don't want a political relationship with him. We want an emotional family relationship with him or her. And that is a very powerful thing because the moment we started to behave like that, the moment we started to say look this is, we are going to treat people with respect, immediately the people who are coming started to treat us like family. And you must have seen some of the pictures where it was as if we were meeting our family members, people hugging us, people telling us very emotional things. That was also a very powerful thing in the Yatra. And the other thing I noticed was that throughout this walk, people of all religions came, all castes came, all languages came, but there was no anger, no hatred, no violence, no disrespect. And so the Yatra was demonstrating to the whole country what the real India is about, what Indian values are, what our religions tell us, what our different languages tell us, what our different cultures tell us that we are one country with many, many different ideas. And we have the capability of living together harmoniously without hatred, without anger, without disrespect. And it's when we do that that we are successful. That was the message of the Yatra. And of course on the other side, we have an ideology of hatred and violence, disrespectful ideology that attacks people because of their ideas. And you must have noticed one thing. And this isn't the nature of the BJP, the RSS. If you noticed a statement of the foreign minister, he said China is much more powerful than us. He said China is much more powerful than us, how can I pick a fight with them? مطلب at the heart of the ideology is cowardice. اگر وہ مجھ سے کمزور ہے تو میں اپنے 5-10 منٹروں کے ساتھ اس کو پیٹ دوں گا. مگر اگر وہ RSS والوں سے تگڑا ہے تو بھا جاتے ہیں. اور ساور کرنے کے کتاب میں لکھا ہے اگر آپ نے پڑی ہو ان کے کتاب ہے اس میں لکھا کہ ایک دن انہوں نے اور ان کے 5-6 منٹروں نے ایک مسلمان بیٹا اور اس دن ان کو بہت خوش ہوئی. تو دیکھیں اگر 5 لو ایک آگنے کو بڑھتے ہیں اور پھر اُن میں سے کسی ایک ری اکتے کو بڑی خوش ہوئی ہے. وہ کائرتا ہے اگر لڑنا ہی ہے تو ایک ری اکتے سے جاتے اکلے لڑنو. مگر نہیں. 5-10 لو ساور کرنے کے ساتھ ایک ری اکتے کو بڑھتے ہیں تو ان کی آئیڈیولیٹی میں یہ بھی ہے if someone is stronger and the foreign minister of the country is saying it. you imagine he is saying China is stronger than us so we can't fight with them. اچھا the British was stronger than us so then we should not have fought with them. how would we ever get independence if we had followed the BJP's principle and the RSS principle that if they are stronger than us if they are stronger than we don't fight them we would be still ruled by the British. so at the heart of their idea is cowardice and that's the lesson for everybody and including the people in India. درمت در نک کویسر آتنی انسان. and in fact the way I look at it the more they attack me the better that is for me because the more I understand the more I learn. so this is a fight between courage and cowardice. it's a fight between respect and disrespect. it's a fight between love and hatred.  اگر کمیونیٹی میں یہاں کمیونیٹی میں ہم جانتے ہیں ہم جانتے ہیں ہم جانتے ہیں ہم جانتے ہیں اور ہم جانتے ہیں because you've been successful because you've made a lot of money you've developed a lot of businesses but that's not the real reason you made us proud. ہم جانتے ہیں ہم جانتے ہیں ہم جانتے ہیں because you respect the people you live with you respect the different cultures you respect the fact that you're living in England you listen to their perspective you embrace their perspective you tell them about our perspective and in that way both groups of people improve and do better so you have shown in your living here you've shown what an actual human person should be doing living peacefully affectionately with respect listening to other people learning from other people and also as a result of our history as a result of our tradition teaching other people what we know so I'd like to end by thanking all of you for making our country proud by shining by being a shining example of what it means to be Indian being respectful of being loving and affectionate to everybody around. Thank you very much.