Hello everybody, and maybe it's too loud. I'm here about a work for Nomadic Lab, that it's a company that develops the TASUS software. Today I'm going to talk a bit about TASUS, to talk about governance and to talk about how this is relevant to FOSDM basically. TASUS, it's a project that started about five years ago, first as one person project, then founded, then we passed through donation round, and now we are on a stable network. Why is TASUS interesting to the FOSDM community? I insisted with my company to bring TASUS here to talk about TASUS in this context, because I think that the technology we are working on can be interesting, can be not saying life changing, but it can contribute to solve a few problems. So first of all, TASUS adopts an open development model. Everything it's on GitLab, you can find all our source code and work. We develop in the clear, we accept contribution from the community. The project itself is funded through a foundation, and all the projects, all the people working on TASUS are encouraged to use open source licenses, in particular all our software is released on the MIT license. The point that I want to make today is about governance. Governance is basically this idea on how we make the protocol of blockchain to evolve, and we have seen a few struggle, let's say in the last few years, namely in the Bitcoin and Ethereum communities with different folks for different reasons, sometimes economics, sometimes it's about personality and ego, sometimes it's about technical reasons. So today I want to offer a solution to this problem. So this is the slides that you should not do on blockchain presentation. What is the blockchain? Just I wanted to put out a few important key points. First of all, blockchain its immutability, its decentralization, and its security. This is where we put our foundations and these are all the key points that we try to address on our software and of course, not all the blockchains are there to these key points for some others, some like anonymity is important, for us the governance is important. So there is always trade-off in how to be secure, I want to be anonymous, how much centralization, so which consensus algorithm you want to use, how much how you want to be resilient, if you want to have open network or closed networks, etc. The building blocks of blockchain, I mean blockchain it's kind of this bubble word that a lot of people make fun of nowadays. I put one of these papers on the notice board and say, Nomadic Labs developed blockchain technology and there was a big lol underneath the word blockchain. I understand that nowadays has become kind of a bubble word because of all this ICO and all these scams around blockchain and the ups and downs on the markets and etc. But at the end of the day for people that kind of develop blockchain, blockchain is really easy, blockchain basically it's a database, decentralized database and it's based on public cryptography use digital signature and cryptographic as function. So the cryptography around the blockchain is not kind of complicated, it's something that has already been studied, at least the basic cryptography. Then if you go to zero knowledge proof and all these others can quantum cryptography, etc. Then it's different kind of research area. Then to have a blockchain, we need to have a consensus algorithm because it's decentralized so basically we have to propose a probabilistic solution to the Byzantine general problems. If you have a closed network, you can use the standard algorithms. If you have an open network then with the Bitcoin and in the last 10 years we've seen a lot of work done in that direction. Then at the distribution level you need a way to have all these nodes in the world talking to each other. Usually peer-to-peer network or gossip network it's used to low level communications. These are for me the three basically building blocks and ingredients that we use. We call them critical address because at the end of the day we just want to record and do a bit of bookkeeping on transactions and verify identity on users and of course ensure the invutability of this data. So the design goal of thesis are two main design goals. We want to, first of all, I want to stress the world's self-amending. That is where governance come in. Governance is the process where we upgrade the protocol. By this process we have to get together and decide where we want to go, which technological advancement we want to pursue, where what our users, for example, want or sometimes also the economic consideration. So if this upgrade is done, how the market or the people are reacting to this upgrade. So it's a lot of work to try to put people together. We, thesis focus on this governance to have an on-chain mechanism to allow this protocol upgrade. I'm going to explain a bit more how this works. The second big design goal of thesis it's about security and formal verification. In my company we all come from academia, we all people that we've been working in universities for about 10 years, and we are really focusing on trying to verify, part of the code is already verified, an extractor, the apple star, part for cryptography, for example, and we're working on at least establishing a framework to formally verify smart contracts. So once you develop on the blockchain, you have some mathematical insurance that your smart contract is going to adhere to your specifications. I'm going to talk mostly today about governance, but I don't want to forget that on our blockchain, basically it's a smart contract platform as well, but today I'm going basically to ignore this part and to focus on governance. So the protocol is the heart of the blockchain. If you look at what a node does, it's basically he receives a lot of blocks and operations, and the protocol analyze these blocks or operations, sometimes accept them, validate them, sometimes they refuse them. The one that validates using a form of consensual algorithm become part of the chain, and then they get redistributed to all the others. In our terminology, we call this the economic protocol, and this is just the only part that we want to change. We want to change the rules, how blocks and operations are expressed, validated, and redistributed on the network. Everything else is what we call the framework. So the thesis model is built on two main blocks. One, it's the protocol that we can change, we can amend, and we can innovate on, and this is the part that it's about governance. The second part is about the framework. The framework is basically all the tools and belts and whistles that you need to create a node and to make it work. So the framework is kind of generic. We try to specify the interface of this framework to insert your protocol and we invite other people to develop the same framework in either programming languages. So we are not the only one developing this part of the code. It's consensus protocol agnostic. So the idea that we can plug any consensus algorithm in this framework and implement, for example, other blockchain using the same software. Of course, there is a strong emphasis on verified components, and we try to adhere to kind of best practices from the engineering perspective. It's written in OCaml. OCaml is a programming language that has been developing in France in the last 25, 30 years. So you might know ReasonML that it's produced by Facebook. ReasonML, it's basically just a bit of syntax on top of OCaml. That is a strongly-typed functional language that we have been using for developing theses. Of course, this framework has already been using production. It's pretty stable and it's continuously evolving. Going more in details about this framework, basically there's a modular architecture. We have, of course, the software for nodes, the clients that we have a common line interface, and maybe we're going to compile all these in JavaScripts as well, and use the same software to have a web framework and to build extensions. Then we have modules to build the miners that we don't call miners because they don't mind anything, since it's proof of stake, but we call them bakers. French people like Croissant, on M l'Ambulangerie. It offers also an abstraction on a distributed peer-to-peer network. It offers a powerful and extensible RPC introspection mechanism. So by RPC that are typed and automatically generated, typed and generated by a library in the code, we're able to export large part of the blockchain via JSON objects and provide this easy access to the internal data structure of the node itself. It use certified cryptography, namely Ackelstar, that it's a library that probably it's already sitting in most of your devices since it's also used by Firefox, for example. Of course, it has a protocol compiler. The protocol compiler is this component that gets OCaml code and transform it in a byte code that then it's injected into the node, linked and then allows the node to behave in a different way. In the future, we also want to go toward the certified compilation pattern, so the compiler itself is certified and it's going to ensure that the protocol that you give is actually going to respect the specification with respect to the output of the compiler. So what is governance? Governance is basically the idea to establish a digital commonwealth by all the people that have stakes and tokens in the tasers network. This means that we want to give the community the possibility to decide how the protocol is going to evolve. It's not going to, we want to avoid the idea of creating fraction and frictions in the community to reduce hard forks. We want to allow people to vote and to take ownership on these votes. Sometimes this problem, it's about convincing the large majority of people that my protocol is better than yours. This is done via an on-chain system where there is a proposal that I'm going to explain in a moment, and then there is a vote. Of course, this system rewards innovation because developers that wants to help and develop a new protocol can be rewarded. This system can be even embedded in the protocol itself. So it's like in some blockchain system where the founders get a bit of tokens every time block is mined. This is the idea that a developer get rewarded automatically with a bit of tokens once is a protocol it's voted by the community and agree to work too. It's like a payment. This is not done, but it's a possible way of seeing this evolution of the problem. Of course, this can be all changed, so the community is going to decide which direction they want to go. So why we need governance today? Well, governance, it's basically the rule of law. The protocol is what decide which block goes in, which block goes out, and which transaction are accepted. We can think about the Bitcoin block size debate, the Ethereum hard forks, and of course, kind of all the struggles that we've seen in the last few years about the communities. I've already talked a bit about innovations and how contributors might be rewarded. Also, we want to stimulate innovation and kind of giving the possibility to allow this protocol to evolve faster. How the government's corollity works. Well, there is an upgrade proposal. Then there is a first round of approval that select a few of this proposal by supermajority vote. Then by supermajority vote, there is the final upgrade proposal, and the vote is done over a period of 24 days. This is one of these system where you can even change the way we vote on the protocol, of course, because this is part of the protocol, how this is done now. We're going to do our first protocol upgrade in a few months probably. So, this is going to put to the test. We have done some small upgrade, but this is going to be the first public big protocol upgrade. So, the main data structures that we use, it's a concurrent data structure that is represented by a shared model singleton, and it's basically a linked list of monads. This is what a blockchain is for us. We use a monadic representation, so we encapsulate everything in a monad. If we want to think about this, the monad that is Bitcoin basically, it's the set of unspent UTXO plus the total work plus the block number. The operation, of course, are the transaction. If we generally speaking, we formalize all these by function that is called applied that gets a state, gets a number of operations and give us the next state. So, where I want to go here, it's how actually we are going to choose one of these states, because of course, when we apply an operation, we can have multiple states, where we have a function that is called a score. So, all the blockchain can be summarized by a function that takes a function that apply and a function that is a score. Scores basically gets a state and tells us which one is the one that it's going to be selected by the consensus algorithm. In the self-amendment blockchain, we can pack, apply, and score inside the state. So, we get these two functions and we put them in a state. Then we have a new operation that is called change and gets two arguments, apply and score, and then we introspect this into the protocol itself. Basically, we add to the model itself a third function that allow to change the protocol itself. This is the idea how this protocol amendment works in practice. How can be done in the future? Well, we can have representative democracy, we can elect certain parties to make the decision for us, or we can have some kind of constitutionalism where we can decide only to change part of the protocol, but not others. For example, we don't want to change the way we vote on the protocol. For example, there are other many ideas that we can explore and go in the direction and I'm going to skip them for lack of time. So, what are the takeaway from today? This is a self-amending Crypto Ledger. So, I talk about the self-amending part and this is what was important for me. We developed this framework to be protocol agnostic. The idea that this protocol should evolve with the contribution of the community and I invite you all to have a look at it. We're going to publish more and more documentation and information as we go. It's a system that can be used to soften all these problems related to governance that we've seen in the last few years. Also, for me as a researcher, it's very important that as a framework, it's a framework where we can experiment with the new consensus algorithm. We can plug, for example, a consensus algorithm for a private blockchain and then use it in that way and then it wouldn't impact on the rest of the system. It's just one algorithm. My dream is to have a library of protocols that we can plug in Tesla and then can evolve all at the same time independently. So, if you have questions, I invite you and these are our contacts. We are desperately trying to hire system administrator and DevOps for us. Please come to talk to me if you have any questions. Thank you. Anyone a question? So, you said the code is self-modifying. I mean, you can vote to modify the code and it's in OCaml. Is there an interpreter in OCaml interpreter? Does OCaml have an eval function that I don't know about? How does that work? No, basically, it's compiled to native code and it's dynamically linked. How it works? Basically, we get a piece of OCaml code that it's stamped and signed by the person that wants to, by the developer. You send it to everybody else for evaluation. This gets compiled, tested and then when the code is actually voted for can be dynamically linked and we basically discard the old protocol and we have the new protocol coming in. I mean, it runs in a sandbox. So, it's not that it has full access to everything. It's actually very strict on environment. Any other questions? I think I get this, but what was your motivation choosing OCaml above other languages? What is? What was your motivation in choosing OCaml rather than other languages? So, as many of these things, they go by nationality. The person that invented Tesla, Sartre-Bretman, is French and he had French education and heard about OCaml. He went to a French company that proposed OCaml and so he went in that direction. But also because OCaml is statically, is a strongly typed system. And you can get some assurances by the type system itself. Anyone else? Question? No. You talked about some assurance, some verification. Is there formal verification? Can you speak to what you're able to do with OCaml because I just don't know what the state of the art is. So, it depends what you want to verify. If you want to have a full mathematical proof, then you have to use a program like Coq that is a formal verifier and code all your system in Coq and then maybe generate OCaml code out of it. But this is kind of the hopper part. By just using the type system of OCaml, you can kind of avoid runtime errors because all your types are, I mean if you trust the compiler. So, these are one of the insurances. It is, it is. So, I think the question was how many nodes are we running now? Well, actually I don't know. There is, if you want to check it, there is, I mean the main network is on. The foundation is running, I think about 40 nodes and we use these 40 nodes to bootstrap the rest of the network. And I think we have hundreds or hundreds of people running nodes. There is a website that is called tizascan.io and you have all the information about the running nodes, block, baked and transaction and movement of tokens over there. I think we have time for one last question. Somebody has another question? No? Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.


The Lagos State Government has unveiled the Lagos Citizen Gate platform for getting feedback from the citizens on policies, projects and others. Special Advisor, Office of Civic Engagement Adherimi Adebowale, accompanied by the Commissioner for Information and Strategy, Bengao Motosho, disclosed this during an interministerial launch of the application at Alousai Kejha Lagos. According to Adebowale, the Citizen Gate 2.0 platform interfaces with citizens of Lagos and is expected to take governance to the doorstep of the residents. Citizen Gate 2.0 is much more robust than the first one. This one is existing, it is in-centric. No matter what it is that you want to complain or you want to talk about in Lagos, the Citizen Gate platform will be equipped to take care of it. So at the back end, all the Commissioners, Mr. Governor, Mr. Deputy Governor, they are seeing your complaint. We are listening to everything that you are saying and we are making sure that at the appropriate time that issue, that complaint, that report is being taken care of. So when you talk about the local government, so we are launching the first one of the Citizen Gate platform now. At the end of the day, we are going to be in all the 57 local governments, we are going to have a dex at all the 57 local governments. The Commissioner for Science and Technology, Hakim Pham, said the state, through the platform, would continue to bring governance closer to the people, enhance feedback mechanism and transparency. Commissioner for Information, Benga, Motoshore and Special Advisor to the Governor on Works and Infrastructure, Arambide at Dewey, said the platform would ensure participatory governance while keeping negotiations involved in a scientific way. What is also important on this Citizen Gate 1.0 is that our platform was actually built on service level agreement and KPIs. What that means is that for the MDAs that were on the platform, Office of Transformation, Creativity and Innovation, sat with each of the MDAs, looked at their mandates and then in discussion with the MDAs, mapped out how long it would take for them to actually perform each activity or task in relation to their mandate. And that's what formed the Service Level Agreement. We provide the technology platform to work in the program to make sure that this system will be available and I can assure you that we have a system that we're starting small and we continue to scale faster, it can take a whole lot of activities without having to repopulate a server to process all the requests. With this platform, it's been hosted in the cloud which allows us to move from very small footprint to a very large footprint to the case that we need to handle a lot of cases. What Accident Gates does is it puts you, it allows you that maybe you have an oversight, something is not in your radar, please go back here and look and then the fact that you also have SLAs, you have days that you must resolve something, it puts everyone under their toes. And for me as agency heads, it's a good way to also monitor your people. It's not enough that you think that you know it, yes you can capture it, but this is a scientific second car way that does it better.


Welcome folks, this is Jacob Schup with the 4 p.m. stock market update, just paying attention. We're looking at, let's take a look at the reclose here, we have the E.S. down to 0.25%, trading at $5,294, the Russell off about 1% at $2,123, NQs, sideways, YM, sideways down about 0.73%. Gold contract finishing up 1.13% today at $2,263, Silver at $2,511, and Copper at $405, look at that. You had, I think JP Morgan come out and had a price target for Gold at $2,500, which is solid. If you've been reading the Gold report, again, we have a 22-year anniversary discount on that right now, check it out on TFNN.com front page, that is actually a pretty spot on to what Tom said, it's unreal, right? So you get that level of analysis right here at TFNN. Let's take a look, can I find this? Is this the truth? Okay, this is what it's under, right? Yeah, DJT. So down about 21.72% today, I know Tom was talking about that a little bit on Thursday, shares the Trump Media and Technology Group fell nearly 18% on Monday as the parent of Truth Social Platform raised ongoing concern due to struggles to meet its financial liabilities just day after the thing went public. Wow. The company posted a net loss of $58.2 million in the year ended December 2023 compared to the net profit of $50.5 million a year earlier. Two was $4.13 million last year up from $1.47 million, anyways, pretty insane and there's just been so much news on that today. So I'm sure you all have kind of read about that ad nauseam, but I just wanted to bring it up because I thought that was pretty fascinating. People are still going to hold that, let's be real, right? I mean people are still going to hold that. You get this, it's almost, I wouldn't reckon, it's very similar to what we would see with Tesla where you kind of have a, people invest in Tesla because of the personality of Elon Musk and I think people who are investing in DJT are investing it because of the personality of Donald Trump. Let's just be real. I think that's kind of what we're going to see shake out. Doesn't mean, you know, who are going to see it do well, but it'll be cool to watch. Folks, thank you so much for joining me. We have Tommy on tomorrow at 9 AM for the Morning Mark kickoff. Then we have Basil right after that. Steve Rhodes, Larry Pesavento, and then your man, Tom O'Brien will be on at 3 PM Eastern. Have a great rest of your day.


Straight from the top, we're going to dive right into the question of the day because I know there are runners in there watching right now. Alright, runners, what is your training philosophy or ideology or coaching tree that you fall under? So comment below and maybe you don't have one. That's okay. Still comment below, let me know. And if you have any questions about training, certainly ask them down below. I'm very curious. That's the question of the day. Okay, five days, folks. Five days. I have taken five days off with no running, no exercise, just chilling out. And it's amazing. It feels good. The legs feel good. The plantar fasciitis feels better. It's not perfect, but it feels 90% better. It's almost there. And it was basically a good warning that I need to make sure I take care of it a lot moving forward. And moving forward, over the next 43 days, you YouTube are about to come on a journey with me as I prepare for a 100 mile race. It's called Run Rabbit Run. It takes place September 14th. Mark your calendars. That's a Friday. The gun goes off at noon. And I'm going to attempt to run 100 miles in 18 hours. I don't know, 17 hours, 19 hours, 20 hours. I have no idea. It's my first 100 mile race ever. And so before I jump into this final training block for Run Rabbit Run, the 100 mile race, it's good for my own personal benefit to reflect on my training and running philosophy. Like, what is where am I at in my running philosophy? Here's a little bit of my background in running. I ran in high school, middle school, and in college. I walked on to the University of Colorado Cross Country team. Go buffs. Where's my shirt?  So it was fun to run in college competitively. I got a lot faster in college. But then I took a lot of time off about five, six years of basically very minimal running. And now as I'm 33, I'm really, really starting to dive into the ultra running world, which an ultra marathon is anything over 26.2 miles, just so you know. And so within coaching, there are trees of coaching. So in the NFL football, there's like really three major coaching trees out there. At least that's the argument that's made. It's Bill Walsh, Marty Schottenheimer, and Bill Parcells. Those three crazy guys are kind of the go-to guys in the NFL coaching trees. And so in running, there's also a coaching tree. And I would argue that the biggest umbrella, the biggest coaching tree out there, would have to go to this gentleman from New Zealand.   A handful of seconds faster this year, but this was basically a solo time trial. And what did Arthur Lideard teach? He taught the pyramid system of training. Basically, if you're running anything over two minutes, so basically anything over 800 meters, you need to develop your aerobic system, your aerobic base. And I believe it's, I think it's if you're running over a 5k, 90% of your effort is going to be aerobic. And then 10% is going to be anaerobic. And then if it jumps up to 10k, it's like 95%. And if you're running a marathon or further, it's like 99% aerobic, 1% anaerobic. Does that make sense? And so to develop your aerobic system, according to Arthur Lideard, you need to do aerobic running where you're approaching the threshold of going into oxygen debt, but you're not quite going into oxygen debt. Now, occasionally, yes, you need to go into oxygen debt on interval days. But overall, a majority of your training is going to be those days where you're running steady at a steady pace. For me, that's basically seven minute miles. Just steady for 15 miles, 20 miles, just steady, no intervals, no speeding up, no slowing down. That is how you develop your aerobic system over years and years and years of training. And I have found as an ultra runner now in 2018, that as a 33 year old, my aerobic system is doing pretty good now. It's pretty amazing that I feel like I'm the strongest I've ever been in my entire life aerobically at 33. Now, I don't have the speed anymore. I haven't developed my anaerobic speed and my leg turnover as much anymore. But my aerobic base is pretty solid. My running philosophy, my training ideology, definitely falls under the Arthur Lideard Coaching Tree. And guess what? It's not a secret anymore. Everyone trains like this now. Now, there are nuances for sure. There are nuances, but I would say like Alberto Salazar, Jerry Schumacher, Dave Smith. There's so many coaches. Of course, my old coach, Mark Webmore, they all dabble in the Arthur Lideard Training Ideology. So it's not a secret anymore. But now, let me break this down into layman's terms, just talking to you straight. Run hard and run easy. I am shocked when I get on Strava and I see how many people run hard or medium to hard all the time. And it's just like weightlifting, okay?  You're literally hurting your body. And then guess what? You don't go back to the gym because you're resting so that your muscles can rebuild.  And people are like running eight miles at eight minute pace on their easy day. I'm like, folks, you got to stop. You got to run less on your... Okay, you can tell I'm a little fired up about this because I see it all the time and it drives me crazy.   I'm going to be upset with you in there! Strava, I'm going to break you in two. I'm going to pull that aside. I'm okay. Okay, I'm off my soapbox. I'm off my soapbox. I'm almost done. One last point, folks, strength is key. Strength training is key for long distance running, specifically ultra marathons, but even marathons and half marathons. I'm telling you, strength is key. I have struggled in some races recently, especially late in the race on the uphills. And I'm learning that although I might have some speed in my legs, I don't have as much strength as a lot of other ultra runners.  You don't have to be bulky. You don't have to have ripped muscles like a ton of strength.  You gotta be strong, okay? This is something I have learned in the last 18 months that it's really, really important now. Don't get bulky.  We don't want to look like this guy. No, no, no, no. That's not allowed. So to recap, I am a running geek. Yes, I am. I used to record on VHS, the Olympics. This is the 2004 Olympics. That's right. When I was in college, I recorded the Olympics on VHS, baby. That's enough. But I fall under the Arthur Lideard coaching tree. I love the tree. I love aerobic training. I've learned over time how to mix it up with training at high altitude for these mountain races. Now that I'm focused more on mountain races, however, however, moving forward, I need to work more on strength and, and yes, on speed. I know it's crazy even though I'm attempting to run, you know, 32 miles like these guys are fast. 50 miles. These guys are fast. 100 miles. These guys are going to be fast. I know that was a little bit of a rant. I went a little crazy there, but I just wanted to communicate to you the bigger picture of my running background, my running and training philosophy and ideology that has developed over time. I definitely did not get into the details of my training and my outlook outlook on training moving forward. I will make another video about what I think about the best strategy for strength training and interval training and mixing it all up into your aerobic training as well. But that is not for today. That is for another video down the road. Thank you for watching. Hopefully you learned something. And once again, I look forward to your questions down below. See beauty? Work hard. Love each other. See you tomorrow. Now go run. Go, go. Get out of here. Get out of here.


Eric, y'all work. Martha Spursky. Okay. Yes, Pritchett. Hannah Smith. And Meredith Crandall here as staff for the committee. And Mike Miller is also here going to try to manage the. Participants. Okay. Then I will. Okay. So. Does staff want to review the meeting procedures and process? Yes. I think that would be a great idea. And I just realized. All you can see for me is the meeting room. Sorry about that. So this, maybe a little long. We're going to shorten it up as we get used to the process, but we want to make sure that anybody who is attending. We want to make sure that we have all the information. We want to make sure that we have all the documents to review the remote meeting procedures, get all the information and anybody who's watching. Through Orca, through the live streaming might be able to then call in and get into the system. So. Due to the state of emergency declared by governor Scott as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic and pursuant to addendum six to executive order. We're going to continue to review the meeting procedures. So. In accordance with act 92, there is no physical location to observe and listen contemporaneously to this meeting. Therefore. In accordance with the temporary amendments to the open meeting law, the design review committee is providing public access to the meeting by hosting a video conference meeting, including both video and telephone access options. With additional access offered through live streaming of the meeting. We're using zoom meeting for. We're using zoom meeting for the live streaming of the meeting. We're using zoom meeting to communicate contemporaneously during this meeting through this platform and the public has access to listen and if it desired participate. Anyone who's listening on the live streaming can join the zoom meeting. At. There's a, I guess I'll have to read the link right now, but in future it's posted on the agenda on the city website. So it's zoom. U.S. I'll have to read it out. I'm going to read it out in two. Eight, three. Four, two. Three, two. Actually, you know what, if you're on the line streaming, it is right here on the shared screen. I'm not going to read that all off. Right here. You can copy it down. As well as the meeting ID and password. And the phone number if you want to just call in via phone. If you're listening on the live streaming, you can also contact us. If you're accessing this meeting. On the city's website. It's at Montpillier dash VT. forward slash 1164 forward slash pending. Dash applications. Dash four dash public hearings. Dash hearings. Sorry. accessing the meeting, please email the meeting moderator, Mike Miller at mmilleratmontpillier-vt.org. Further, if you're having difficulties while accessing the video conferencing features in Zoom or otherwise have questions while you're logged in via Zoom, you can message Mike through the chat function in Zoom. Please try and keep those chats if possible public, however, so you can send them to everybody so that they get recorded. And then, sorry, one second. Trying to see everything at once. When you log into the meeting, you'll have an opportunity to tell the moderator which applications you wish to comment on. When the chair announces the time for public comment on an application arrives, the moderator will unmute members of the public based on the order they submitted their intent to comment. If you are interested in speaking and had not said you would like to speak previously, please raise your hand if you're on video or if you're on phone, you can unmute yourself briefly and state your name and city staff will add you to the queue of people who wanna talk. Once the chair has recognized you to participate in the public section, the moderator will unmute your microphone and confirm that you can be heard. You are then allowed to provide your questions or comments. If you can keep them to two minutes. Members of the committee will have the opportunity to respond or ask questions of you and the applicant may have an opportunity to respond. The chair can grant additional time for speakers who have follow-up questions or comments. And then after you finish speaking, your microphone will be muted again. The chair will then call the next person to speak. You can provide additional input but only after the chair recognizes you again. If no one requests to provide additional information on a certain application, the chair is gonna move on. If for some reason we're having excessive problems with the public being able to access the meeting, then the meeting may be continued to a time and place certain so that we can actually make this happen. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting are not, that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote. Now I'm gonna hand the meeting back over to Steve. Okay, before we ask for approval of the agenda since we're doing this online, I will quickly review the agenda. The first application is for 79 to 83 Main Street. The Heaney family LLC is applying for a review to replace 12 windows in that building. The second item on the agenda is for 105 State Street. Tom Lozan for 105 State Street LLC is proposing a new three-story building to be reviewed. And then following that, we just have the minutes from the March meeting, March the 16th and based on that agenda, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda and a second from the committee members? Eric moves approval. Martha seconds. All in favor of the agenda. So no. Aye. Aye. Aye. I think that's everyone. And I'll just quickly ask Meredith was did anybody make a statement or asked to be heard ahead of both of the agendas? First of all, for the Main Street agenda, was there anybody from the public asking to speak on that first application? I have not gotten anybody asking to speak on that application. Mike, did anybody sign, when they were signing into the Zoom meeting, did anybody that you know have asked to speak on that one? I don't, I think we'd have to open some of the lines. I'm trying to go through the names on the list here. Tom's an applicant, Alicia's an applicant, Andrew's an applicant. Fred would be in a butter to the second. We can go through the application. We can go through the application first and then see if there are any, if anybody wants to make a comment. Yeah. So, Kim, Kim Heaney, if you're there, would you like to give us some detail about your application? Sure. It's pretty simple. It's really a continuation of a window replacement project. And so we've already put similar windows into the front of the building. There's just new Marvin windows that match what's coming out. I think the only two differential ones on the back on the rear exposure, there's one door on the second floor that we want to remove. It's unnecessary to have that door going out to the roof at this point. It's a big heat loss and it's an attractive nuisance. So our plan is to put another window along that road to match. It'll largely fill the opening of the door, but it won't obviously be quite as long as the door. It's going to be the same height as the other windows on that road. So there will be a wood panel below it to fill the difference, much like we did on the back of the Savoy building. And then on the third floor, which is probably easier to see up top, there's an old window where somebody kind of filled in the bottom and put some bricks in there. So what we'd like to do is put just two new, they're both attic windows, but we're going to put two new Marvins up there that would match the one on the right and get rid of the brick patch. So that's it. Okay. And again, the new windows being put in are a match of the existing ones. It's an insulated Marvin window with a simulated divided light with the spacer bars. Yes. Do any of the committee members have any questions or comments? Tim, are you going to save one of the old windows and put it in the attic for posterity? Actually, we're saving a few. Yeah. Great. Any other questions or comments? If not, I can read down through the design review recommendation form. Is there anyone do want to check the public comment first? Is, does anyone from the public have a comment? I'll read down through the form. And then if anyone has a comment after that, we can always listen in at that point. So the evaluation criteria, number one, preservation, the reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district involves a strict structure, acceptable. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping not proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials, acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, no change in this application. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and state house, acceptable. And if anyone from the public has a comment, we can entertain it at this point. Otherwise we can go to a vote by the committee members. I'll vote yes. Okay, whatever. This is Martha, I'll vote yes. Okay. I vote yes. Hannah votes yes. Seth votes yes. And Steve votes yes. So the application is approved. Okay, thank you, Tim. Thanks for participating. So, Tim, this is Meredith. What's gonna happen is Steve's gonna get me a scan of the recommendation form that he signed. I will email that to you and you can either shoot me back an email that just confirms your agreement with the recommendation form or you can print it off, sign it and send me back a copy. And then we'll be able to issue out the permit. Very good. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. And we can move to the next project, which is for 105 State Street is Tom there. I am. Do you like to describe your project for all of us? Actually, I'd like to, I think all of you know Jay. So I'm gonna actually yield my time to Jay so that he can more thoroughly explain the project. Okay, good, thank you. All right, let's see a little earlier. This is my third Zoom today, we're at a two and a half hour Department of Public Safety. I think we burned it out in our office. Internet was down at the moment. It looks like it came back. I was gonna only be able to participate with audio and Andrew from our office to be able to access drawings. But if you give me one second, I might be able to get back in to the new technology. Anyway, but we've been working for some time looking at this new building with Tom three stories, it would be mixed use. I think do people see me, I'm to join video and then I'll sign off on my audio. It just came back on, it just came back on. Well, it snapped, okay. That was a feedback from him having two accesses. All right. There you are. Okay, good. Well, we've looked at sort of a postage stamp site, it's certainly an important what's kind of a transition between the state and the municipality with have mixed types of building and building materials, clabbered, brick granite. We felt that this was sort of a more important building of a little more stature and we're looking at a combination of brick grant, which we'll get into in detail. I think. Meredith, do you wanna share the screen with Jay? Yeah, Jay, do you wanna be sharing the screen at this point? Oh, well, right now you're going through the application. I don't know if there's anything specific that one wants within that. We've been through technical review, they had a few suggestions, clarifications which we've gone through. Maybe Meredith, let me see if I can get to share screen myself. Yeah, I think I need to change the settings possibly. Hold on one second. Give me one minute. I see a share screen on my screen, but hold on. Try now. Okay, I'll try again. Cannot share screen while other participant is sharing. Hold on. You have to un-share yours. Yeah, I think I do. Hold on. Stop share. All right, give it a shot, Jay. Okay, now I'm not seeing that option on my screen. Here we go, here we go, let's see. Trying to bring up our site plan. You may have to select a specific file to share. It may not let you share your whole desktop. Steve, while Jay is doing this, I just wanted to let you know there was a little typo at the bottom of the recommendation form. The bottom of the recommendation form for this project says that it doesn't have DRB review. It will have DRB review on the 18th. Okay. Are you seeing my screen? I'm not seeing. No. No? No. Okay. It was supposedly sharing. Andrew, you wanna see if you can get to share? I can share if that's needed. I'll just need permission though to share. Okay, so I should. I should have, it should allow all participants to share. It only allows one at a time. Jay, I can bring up the landscape plan. Okay, see if you can do that. There we go. The site plan, I think. Can you do the site plan? Yeah, the site plan. Give me a second. So just a little bit of additional background. We find that we were four and a half feet below the base flood elevation. And so we needed to lift to that plus Montpelier has added a requirement of additional two feet. So our first floor needs to be six and a half feet above grade. There we go. Which certainly presents some challenges to relate to the street. And as part of the zoning asks that one do that, especially for retail. So we are raised that six and a half feet. And we've done some things to try and help mitigate that relative to the appearance of the building. So looking at the site plan. So you see State Street with the lower part of the page. And then up into the left, the street up between it and the pavilion. It is anticipated that the first floor of the building will be a bank institution. And there's an interest in having a drive through so that that as one comes up the street and turns right there would be right through all that we're gonna access it from the other side. So if we now move along to the front, you're gonna see our main steps to take us up to six and a half feet. And then there will be another access at grade which will explain more with the floor plans. And then we are going to achieve three parking places on the east side of the building diagonally. We've done a diagonally such that we can be as narrow as possible and not extend into the right of way passage that is to the east or right of that. As soon as we have any parking places we need at least one accessible. So there's one handicapped space in the lower portion there. And then that as soon as you have one needs to be van accessible. So that hatched area represents the area that we provide for van accessibility. And then coming up the page one would then turn left and access the drive through for the bank which certainly as we're finding these days the banks that have drives throughs are viable and those that don't are not. So that's kind of, later I'll show you landscape plan which we've worked with Bob White landscape architect. Any questions on site before we maybe start looking more at the building? One question I had is Eric. One question I had is the, as you pull out onto Taylor Street, the site distance. I just wondered if somebody had really taken a close look at that because it seems you'd get your nose of your car out in the street before you could see down the street. Well, I think it meets or exceeds the city requirements for distances between openings. Okay. So Eric, this is Meredith. The department of public works has looked at the site plan as it stands fairly extensively. And they, because of where the building ends and then there's sidewalk space, they weren't having issues with the site lines from coming out from the drive-thru. I think it's not in our purview but it's just something I noticed when I was looking at it. Thank you. There is a sidewalk on the west or left side of the building primarily provides. There was a door at the rear there that's a second means of egress from the second floor but would not be seen as a prime path for the public as you can't continue further north. They're retaining the pit at the restaurant and then the access drive that descends down to the state parking. We've set the building back in front somewhat in order to accommodate the change in elevations with this staircase. The setbacks along the street sort of vary with each building. We are kind of similar to that of the back of the porch of the pavilion. Okay. Any other site questions? I have a question. This is Liz. I read through the information that was sent in the packet and is that access road supposed to be a two way street? I thought I read that that was supposed to be a two way. Well, it is. It looks like it only can go. You can't really get two cars right close to State Street. It gets so narrow there. Correct. Two cars couldn't pass simultaneously would be one and the other. And that's the way it was with the golf station but they parked on the side and would continue. It's interesting. I found, which I have a document I can show you a number of places about eight of them in Montpelier where that's the case accessing sort of major areas. And it's just part of the municipal arrangement. But you're right. It would two couldn't pass simultaneously. Right. That's the way it has been. Okay. Thank you. There is Tom, shall we review the opportunity here? The opportunity for future development, Jay. Yeah. Well, I mean, just a little bit of background as we looked at the site, I actually considered, I don't know if you have a pointer, Jay, where you can actually point out, well, property line is just to the rear of the parking spaces. You see the line moving vertically up and down the page. That's the right of way. And as we looked at different siting patterns, my first preference was actually to have the parking on Governor Davis drive. So actually reverse the parking and push the building all the way to the property line which is allowed under ordinance and push the building to the right all the way to the property line. You know, having a little bit of vision, the problem with me doing that is that if anyone ever decided to develop the large parking lot to the rear of the restaurant, the restaurant, the rear of the property, John's place, if anyone ever decided to develop that property, the fact that I had pushed the building all the way to the right-hand side and made the parking on Governor Davis drive would preclude two lanes of travel and a six foot sidewalk. So, you know, in theory, a few years from now, if someone decided to develop the rear of the property, we will have preserved two lanes of travel, vehicular travel and a six foot sidewalk. Obviously it would involve some land swap. So that's the reason we went with this configuration so that it would accommodate. You know, we don't, we have no interest in any of the property to the rear of ours, but if we did that, it would preclude anyone from, you know, gaining access to State Street from that lot. Jake, can I ask a question, Fred Bishara? Sure. It looks like you're gonna be entering the, from State Street on the east side of the building and the west side of the federal building. Is that correct? Correct. Where would be the drive-up? So you continue forward past the three spaces and then you'll see a block out of a car and stacking spaces in the rear. And the actual window for the drive-up, Andrew, if you could point to that is right below his hand there. Now, would that hinder the drive-out possibilities from the Vermont federal next door? Because they enter on my land between 97 State Street and the Vermont federal go around, make a U-turn and come out along the side, pull into a used to be a drive-up and then pull out. Would that be interfering? No, a couple of things. One that drive-up there widens there such that cars at that potential location and stacking is beyond it. And then this would still be not into the right of way lane. Okay, good, thanks. Okay, any other site to questions? While we're on site, would you like to look at landscape or hold that for later? Doesn't matter. We can look at that now, that's fine. Yeah, okay, so here's a landscape plan. It's sort of the right hand portion. We worked with Bob White on this. We've pretty much filled the site, but one thing that we have particularly with the building raised six and a half feet, it's a little hard to respond and we also didn't want to just have sort of six and a half feet of concrete. So to try and mitigate that, in the center you've got the staircase which has sort of two sections of rise. So that provides entrance there. On the right of it, we are able to and it's allowed according to the floodplain requirements to come and enter at grade into a vestibule. From that vestibule, one would then take an elevator that would take you up the six and a half feet to the main level and also to the levels above. Within that, we would have access, maintenance access to a pocket toddler which would be open in the sidewalk side. In front of that area, there are a couple benches. We're trying to create what in effect is kind of a mini pocket park. So there are two benches that oppose one another and then a tree that is planted to the right of that. And then also further to the right would be three bike racks. While we're anticipating that we would match the style the city has been used for park benches and also for the bike racks. So there would be a ties and what to that. The tree would be planted in a great system with proper soils. We would probably do some marking of the concrete to create a little bit of a different pattern as you see in those rectangles. There would be one other tree beyond the handicap space and then there's a little bit of a wrap that provides access up to the sidewalk level and on into the building and one additional bench at that location. And then moving back around to the front on the left side, we have two planters and you'll see these better in our elevations and perspectives. But there'll be sort of a broad lower one where we would have the thought was sort of annual or perennials there that would respond to the seasons. And then with some grasses behind them is a little bit of a backdrop to those lower perennials. And then a winter berry against the building which would provide a green color during the summer and some red berry in color throughout the winter. And that's kind of, I would say, is the extent of the landscaping. One other just side issue which I didn't mention before if you move along the side of the building that the east side, you'll see a couple of doors beyond that staircase. The one of the few opportunities but raising the building section I have provided is that beneath that floor, we're going to have access for trash and recycle which is accepted to be within the flood plan. So any landscape questions? And I think the species are indicated there as well as caliper size or gallon for the winter berry. If not, shall we look at maybe the front facade? Does it be the State Street side? Well, that's on the right there. So you can see the planters on the left and the elevation of our windows at that more than six and a half feet up. So we'll be granted with our planters and these sort of two levels within that. These renderings don't necessarily depict the plantings per se but that gives sort of a sense of it. We have a tour up to six and a half feet and then as is sort of the pattern for most of downtown, we have a higher floor to floor from the first floor to the second. Which also relates to sort of that type of massing which we see larger windows on the left side that respond to the sort of a more retail type of function. A pair of doors on into the building after one has gone up the stairs. On the lower right, the door and windows there will have to be floodproof. To try and find a door for floodproof that doesn't look like something you put in a prison is pretty tricky. We are able to find something where we can at least have a half light but they're pretty stopped doors and frames and that's just seemingly reality of responding to the floodplain requirement. We're anticipating a canopy over that area to provide some protection as one is perhaps waiting to go in there. And that's where people would enter again to go to the elevator and the bank would use for rear access to the backside of a pocket teller. And then the windows above that is a small office that's kind of in an intermediate level. And then at the second floor, our windows are smaller. We're looking at an aluminum window with some operable capability. We'd have a granite sill and sort of soldier course head so that there's some added interest in depth and shadow line to the windows. And then at the third floor, they reduce as often as seen within the district in height but would still maintain the granite sill base and the soldier course above. You'll also see that there are some banding on the building to add some interest to its vertical height. There are some corbel brick that we have at the sort of second floor and at the third floor which intersects the windows at an intermediate height. We also have a proper cap to the building which I think the zoning specifically addresses as many buildings in Montpelier have. So this would be through a system of corbeling, soldier courses of brick to create that cap. Most of that many portions of that front facade are granite. We're gonna create a band around which could then provide an opportunity for sign band. We're not coming to you right now for sign approval as that has yet to be determined but would do so when then that was appropriate time. Any questions on the front for some of the material? Hey Eric, could you explain your choice of the kind of asymmetrical windows? Well, one thing we're trying to do is respond both to the combination of context of the historic buildings but at the same time make a statement of the contemporary building. As you probably Eric and found in the department here guidelines at times have talked about that a building should be a product of its own time. So we won't necessarily wanna just do exactly what one might see in the way of double hung or other types of combinations. So this we feel makes sort of a bit more of that kind of a statement yet responding to the context. Not literally, but at least basically with material. So that's kind of where that comes from. Did any of the windows open? Yes, you can sort of see a bit where there's a V on the upper windows that's an operable portion and they will be fairly limited as to how far they can open as an awning rather than a casement. I don't think opening a casement would look very good whereas this will be sort of controlled and a limited amount of opening. The lower level ones will wanna be controlling the atmosphere air conditioning, humidity, et cetera. So those in the lower or more commercial level would not be operable. Jay, the only thing that bothers when not that they're distinctive and different is their asymmetrical quality. Yeah, well, again, that's sort of, I'd say you probably don't, you see generally symmetry in the historic and a little less, although not totally, I can find building some of the historic Richard Saurians that are less than symmetrical in the area. Thank you. They could also add some interest to the facade and a level of texture that would be different if it were simply mere punched openings repeating historic. I like the windows actually. Can you speak to the entrance canopy, please? Material and so forth. Okay, let's see. Andrew, I believe we're looking at that when being a glass canopy. Was that correct? It's actually, yep, that was the kind of initial starting point. You see a lot of sort of historic glass canopies Boston and elsewhere and we felt that this was kind of a fun piece. So we'll have some translucency to it provide some protection. So that's kind of what we see that material do. I think so it's sloped glass. It's hard to tell from the drawing. We can probably, Andrew, we've got some pictures we could take them to or perhaps when we talk materials or you wanna do that. Okay. There's some cut sheets we can show you. Those are actually not here. I think what we had kind of finalized on for those was that they'd most likely be a custom build in field. As far as controlling the flow of water, we would either be scuppering them off to the side and potentially doing like a chain drain into one of the planters so that they wouldn't be shedding on people walking in underneath the entrance ways below it. Do you have a section detail through it? We haven't detailed any of the canopies specifically. I think we were just going off of a kind of a cable system that was back to the building. We could send you some images that would be similar. Yeah, that would be helpful. Yeah. Let me get you some similar present. Okay. Back to the elevation. Steve has a question regarding the cornice at the top of the building. Yeah. Was there any thought to use a different color or different material along the top to sort of highlight the cornice as opposed to the break going straight up to through the top? Well, it'd be primarily sort of a shadow line and textural difference. I guess if one used to do sometimes where there's a little bit of a brick color change if one wanted to accentuate it more, perhaps that soldier course or portion, it would make it a little busier. And I think there's going to be a fair amount going on with a fair amount of richness with just the plain change, the shadow lines and texture. I think question to watch you start at that precedent and then do you keep doing it elsewhere? Frankly, I think it's a little more elegant to let it just be that vocabulary. I agree with that. My only thinking was that most of the historic buildings in town, not that this has to be exactly that, but most of them delineate the cornice from the rest of the building to give it sort of a definition at the top, whether it's material color or again, something to set it off. This building, the facade of this building faces south. So it's going to be in directly in the sun most of the time. I'm not sure how much shadowing you will, of course, depending on the time of day, but I was just not sure how much shadowing would occur with it. Well, it is south. It depends on whether it's winter or summer. Certainly less than the winter in the summer or the high sun. I think you'd have a line beneath each corbel. Again, I think you do find examples both ways in town, but in some ways, frankly, I think you would kind of paint on and cheapen this to do that. Okay. But that's an opinion. Jay, can you speak to the material selection of concrete for the stairs as opposed to granite? Well, I think one was, I don't know the durability would necessarily make a difference, but it's a fairly complicated combination. Obviously, budget comes into it as well. And it certainly would be a high durability, would use a very high strength concrete. And is there a box still needed? It's sort of a simpler construction and it can be sort of a combined pour whereas with granite, then you need to have sort of, in effect, a second set of concrete beneath it. Right, understood. Is there any possibility that a center rail will be needed? I think we're right in between as to whether from a code stamp it's needed. I think we're narrow enough not to, but we should confirm that. Also trying to hopefully have a pillar field fairly broad and inviting. And then how is this facade lit? We are not planning lighting on the facade itself. There are street lights in the area is pretty well lit other than we would have, when you go up the front stairs, there's a flat ceiling there such that we would have some surface or recess lighting washing down on that step. And then there's, if you look at the door at the floodplain entrance, there's a light to the side of it as well. We aren't planning to shine light upon the building. And how about the sign band? In the sign band, I think yet to be determined, I think perhaps it could simply be a standoff letter, whether it's a brushed aluminum that creates its own shadow line. I don't know if, whether we would do, as I think we did done elsewhere where there's a lighting behind it. So you get that kind of ghost effect, but yet to be determined. I'm kind of thinking it's probably gonna be an applied standoff letter, but we would simply submit it. And can you speak to the glass itself, the color of the glass windows? We may be looking at one question as to whether, if we're worried about any south side overheating as to whether on this side, we would do some solar shading possibly. So which would I don't know that we picked the color per se. I think you could there within some of the solar band options, you can have a variety of tones. Yeah, we really hadn't determined that at this point. Do you have a feeling on the preference of, they are a little bit more reflective, certainly. I forget the number, but it's kind of a gray, it's kind of a gray glass. That would make it fairly neutral. Right. We could look at doing that. If we do use the shading, I would be neutral rather than either. There's some tans or blues. What color is the material for the window frames themselves? I would say would be a dark bronze or possibly a black. When we redid the French block here recently, it was which black, which I think was quite elegant with the brick color. Would you tint? Can you hear me? This is Liz. Yeah. Would you consider tinting the concrete to match the granite steps, the concrete steps to match the granite? I think we could. Yeah, I'm not sure it even be that much of a difference other than as a part of the rendering, but we could have them be fairly close. Yes. Thank you. Jay, what is the final finish on the granite or does it vary depending on its location? Probably very somewhat, but I would think we would be have a certain amount of texture to it, whether it's a sandblasted or a plain finish, but some finish, not, it wouldn't be slick. We're highly polished, which also then after a number of years, you've lose the polish. Shall we move to the west elevation, which is right next to it? Yes, go right ahead, Jay. Okay, so we wrap the granite around beneath the other windows that are sort of the retail size. And then that stops as one is going on up the street. We do continue with the corbel banding. And both above windows as well as the granite stills beneath. One request that came out of technical review with the sidewalk right there, there was a concern for plowing and potential damage to the building we have since, and we can show you a sketch where we're gonna, at the base you see right there, that they asked that we raise the concrete for other treatments such that it would be more durable for that being plowed at that elevation. So that's what we would look at doing there. And Liz, yes, we could probably tint that to be closer to the granite. The last, the door on the left is an egress door. There would be no handles on it such that that would be exit only from the upper levels, emergency exit. And then as in front, the windows at the top floor are not as tall as the other two. And there's a series of offices toward the rear of the building rather than retail. It's also not on as much the retail street. So these punched openings are responding to the function of the offices beyond. What are the rectangles? Are those recessed panels that are either side of the windows? I'm not sure that's still happening. Andrew, do you have a thought on that one? Yeah, originally those were in time to speak corporeal recessed panels just to break up the rhythm a little bit and help provide some relief to that elevation. I think in the end though, frankly, I would not do it because they're not that sure they seem to relate to things above. They might add more sense of opening along that facade but I wouldn't, should we go to the north? Okay, go ahead, move to the north. Okay, so this is where one would have come in from the left moving to the right to the drive-through and there's the access is at that location. There will not be a teller right behind this. This will be done by video and two. So that's what that would be. And then we have a canopy above that to provide some weather rain protection for a car that is parked there as they're reaching out and the height response to sort of a required height for this function. Now, this will be a metal canopy. So it's not glass like the other one. So the height is a determined. I think it will be determined by a standard. I think we thought it looks a little high. Aesthetically, it'd be nice lower but I think that responded to a standard. Yeah, minimum is 13 feet. So that's what's happened is on this side and then the east. I think there's any way to bring a little more interest at that canopy area down below it. Sort of defining that area a bit more. Yeah, just curious if you thought about that. Yeah, such as a pilaster treatment or something such thing. I don't know. It just seems so nondescript. Yeah, well it is, you're right. Maybe that's a spot to look at a corbel indent as though it were window placement. Maybe because of the low, because of the height, unless we raised up the canopy, maybe it would be more of a size as just the lower portion of the neighboring windows as a pair of four, two or three recess corbel. I think putting some kind of a surround on the talent machine would help make that a little bit bigger and stand out. Whether it's bricks facing a different way or granite or whatever, there's something to make it look left like just a hole punched in the wall. Sort of make it more of a feature. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Okay, we can look at that. East side. Okay, so then on the left, well, you see the bike racks, which will be forward to the handicapped space. And then there's an ATM machine accessed there. This is all granite surround and the glass canopy continues on around so it provides some weather protection when one is at the ATM. Similar exposure of concrete foundation along the side. There will then be a door which would provide access to the second floor. It also unfortunately has to be the heavy floodproof door. And then we're anticipating perhaps this would be a opportunity for a building directory. Tenants at the upper levels would have the opportunity of coming into the elevator lobby and accessing their floors there, but there would also be an option if they didn't wanna take the elevator to come in here. We would also come to you with the building directory once determined. And then the canopy, I'm thinking it would probably be the same material as that as the front side. The small doors to the right were those that I mentioned where because of the six and a half feet in the air we can do some short doors that would provide access to trash and recycle. Yeah, I would say the same thing here that making the door surrounds some kind of surround on the door in the ATM because that doesn't look like a very inviting door at this point. If you're gonna use it as a regular access but there's some kind of a frame around it. I don't think it matters much what it is whether it's bricks or granite bricks or whether it just turned a different way or something. The windows above that you notice are not in line with the others, but that's because they're responding to the staircase behind it. So they sort of as all of our Alto would like you to do have that form follow up function. So that's what's happening there. Why don't we look Andrew at the perspectives? I think it's often desired to look at the building and perspective. So we've tried to model it within its sites which you can see it in relation to the streets and the surrounding buildings. So this has the Southwest corner gives you that's height and massive. And then the Southeast these are certainly the two prime elevations. So now you can see this in relation to the pavilion and the tavern behind as well as you can see the access to the diagonal parking. Jay, Eric, does a pavilion porch that this facade is about in line with the brick part of the pavilion? Isn't that what you said? I think it's close to it. Yeah, we ended up being somewhat dictated by their constraints of getting up to four or six and a half feet. And we weren't totally free with that to a certain extent. Yes. If you're walking down the sidewalk in front of the Capitol or by Vermont Federal you'd be able to see the porch of the pavilion? You know, I'm not totally sure. I believe you would but I think you'd see that protruded forward. Thank you. And then looking at the other sides. So this would be the Northeast side. And then on the right, you see the access lane to the drive up. And we're able to pretty much match grade coming along and up there to that which is the existing elevation of the street. And then you see the pavilion still is a certainly taller structure. And then if we look at the Northwest then we have our sidewalk coming along. But as you see the sidewalk is not gonna be much of a future destination for pedestrians in that you've got the retaining wall and elevation drops at the tavern and the parking lot beyond. Well, maybe go back to the Southeast. That's certainly a prime elevation for the building. And we try to, on the Southeast corner create a bit of a sense of tower but not necessarily taller but a vertical element that also broke up helps break up the building. So those are somewhat forward of the other portions of facade. Also the granite coming up higher helps articulate that feeling of tower and separate it from the bank larger windows. I think that looks good. The top piece of the wall. We didn't keep the high floor to floor as one comes in to the elevator which puts an intermediate floor level. And so there's a little office that's kind of intermediate level right above it which is gonna be kind of a sweet spot but that's kind of what generates those windows and their size. I think that's Tom's office. By the way, from the illustrations on that side with the shadowing if the windows can be tinted to closely match the color of the frames it makes the geometry of those windows a little less severe.  Well, it doesn't have to be black but if it was tinted slightly towards that color it softens that effect. In some ways I think the opposite. If you look at the windows on the second floor east see how the light and the dark, I like that play. No, it's going on the right side and the east side. Yeah, right there. I sort of like that effect of having a little bit of glass show. And it's funny, you know, windows are interesting if you look back at the tavern right now in this old image they're black but if you look over at the pavilion because they're reflecting or perhaps because they're blinds pulled, they're light. So windows in do change a lot. I think as you see a little bit maybe actually be able to see through our building a little bit with some of the windows as they relate on the two sides. So I understand what you're saying relative to that being a different mix of pattern but I kind of think it doesn't hurt it to let it be glass. I think overall it's very well executed. The one facade that really still is a bit odds with the rest of it, I think is the backside where we have the drive-thru. It helps be missing something. Or we can look at some of the things you've talked about in suggestions. So again, that's it as it is at the moment we've tried to respond to the sort of combinations of materials, openings, et cetera. Actually I was looking right now at the pavilion you see some of that intermediate corbel banding. And certainly it's top being a man sort of different but it's cap is just brick and there's no change of color or material. It blocks the view of that blank wall in the back of the pavilion. Yeah, I heard a rumor that they were talking about putting windows in that. Well, the tenants hate being on that side of the building. So at this point you would write your findings and or suggestions for which we would then, unless you just give us approval, that would work. The only things that have really come up so far was that there was a suggestion to make the concrete color match as closely as possible to the granite color. And then the only other optional, again after option suggestions were some detail around the door and directory on the east side to make it look a little more attractive, a little more inviting. And then also something, some other detail to enhance the appearance of the canopy on the north side where the drive up is. Right. That's pretty much it. Okay. And Steve, the color of the glass and the detail of the canopy and some of the incidentals, the signage, once you get to that point. I'm saying the color of the glass, what on the building or the which side or which detail? The windows, the windows. I've done the canopy detail. So Seth, this is Merida. Yeah. Just to check, so are you leaning towards, so my understanding was you, we were all, and not we were all, but the people were talking about having the window glass tinted, something a little, maybe on the gray side. And then Seth, did you wanna see more detail on that front canopy or just have it come back? Was that what you were leaning towards? I don't necessarily need to hold up the project. But some to have that front canopy, have there be more detail to it? It was more of just understanding the detail. Yeah. I think that what we're looking at, they're sort of segmented portions of glass and frame so that it had some levels of interest. I mean, I think I understand what you'd like to see, but I feel very confident that you'd be comfortable with it. Does it slope at all, Jay, that canopy? I think, let's see, were we sloping this one? It would have to slope a little bit just to control water flow in the direction that we want it to. But then we would control it such that we, we talked about, as he mentioned, maybe even something like a rain chain at the edges. I'm thinking about snow too. Snow would primarily stay on. It's only a slight slope. Fortunately, it's, it faces south, so the sun will do a lot of the work to keep it clear. Seth, did you want to add anything in the recommendation form regarding window tinting and where were you talking about the window or glass tinting? Was that in the windows or the canopy or what did you want to detail? Well, the windows in particular. And Seth, that was if we were looking at some sort of solar shading, not necessarily wanted it tinted, but if we tinted it, what it would be, is that sound right? Correct, correct. That sounds fine. I think water control is really important on that canopy. So it doesn't drip down the sidewalk when the snow melts and that would make an icy spot. Nope, it's certainly need to be addressed now. Seth, how did you want the wording to be written on the recommendation form regarding the window tinting? If solar band is used, what tint is proposed? Was that a question or a recommendation of a certain tint? I mean, I prefer a neutral personally, but that's just my take on it. Leave that up to Jay. Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. That's fine. It doesn't introduce a whole other element. Anybody else have any other comments about any portion of the application? Any questions, comments, suggestions? I just a comment, I think it's a great job of making a building fit on a really tough site.  Thank you. Every inch was accounted for. And another comment, I do like the asymmetrical windowed look. I think it adds quite a bit to the building. Thank you. No. Does anyone from the public have any comment at this point, Mike or Meredith? I haven't had anything, anyone come through with questions to me. The only question that we had was from our minute taker who just wants to make sure we capture Patrick's last name if he wants to make sure that his name is included in the minutes. And you can either speak up or he can put it into type into the chat and I can get it to Tam. That was it. Yeah, Mike, this is Meredith. I was having, I was trying to get Patrick unmuted, but. I think I am now, Mike. Okay, yeah, Patrick. So what's your full name? It's Patrick Malone. Emily. Hello, Wendy. Oh, hi, Pat. Sorry. Sorry, Pat. I should have realized it was you. Sorry. Does anyone else have anything to add or should we go through the recommendation form? I think it's a successful job too. Just gonna add my comment. Okay, then based on everyone's comments, we'll run through the criteria. Criteria number one was preservation or reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed project is in the historic district involves in historic structure. It is in the district and everyone found it acceptable in its design. Again, considering the challenges presented, it seems to be a very nice job. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district, acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping with the district, acceptable. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials, acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, acceptable. Reclamation of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and state house, acceptable. The suggestions where the recommendation was that the concrete materials on the building facades would be colored tinted to closely matched the granite material on the remainder of the side. And then several suggestions were optional changes where detail around the east side door and directory to enhance its appearance and make it more inviting. Suggested architectural detail to enhance the appearance of the north side canopy, whatever that might be. And again, that's just an optional change. And there was a set suggested a neutral window tenting was required for solar issues. I also suggested that around the drive up, the actual metal piece of it, there'd be some kind of a decker development to make it look very, that it wasn't just a hole punched in the building. Right, and that was to my point as well. It wasn't so much the canopy itself, it was what was below it. Like an idea too. So I will just add to enhance the appearance of the area below the north side canopy. So again, that reads architectural detail to enhance the appearance of the area below the north side canopy. And unless anybody else has anything to offer, do I hear, I would like to bring it to a vote to many members. Very close yes, approve. Okay. Yes, Liz votes yes. Anna votes yes. Beth votes yes. And Steven votes yes. And again, this would come before the next development for review board meeting. When would that be narrative? That is May 18th. And unless anybody else has anything to offer, I would like to congratulate Tom and Jay for a nice job done. I'm sure we're looking forward to it. When do you plan to start construction? Oh, that's gonna ask Governor Scott. You know, it's, and I want to thank all of you for the accommodation, you know, this is my first Zoom meeting of this type. And it's definitely not the same as, you know, all being in the same room and being able to communicate with each other. But as I said, you know, in the beginning, I think it's important that we keep these projects moving. So to answer your question, sir, you know, as soon as we can. Well, good. And best of luck to you. Thank you very much. I want to just thank Andrew McCullough from our office, he's responsible for these renderings. Well, good. Thank you. Great, thank you all. It's an interesting experiment. Yes, it has been. Thank you again. Thank you. I will be in touch with the recommendation forms once I have them from Steve. And then that will be incorporated into the staff report before the more before, as part of the May 18th, DRB hearing. Okay. And at the moment, you're thinking that's gonna be Zoom and public? Are you not sure yet? Um, I would ask that you all plan on attending via Zoom. Even if the stay at home order is lifted at that point, we're gonna need to keep it Zoom as much as possible and only have the in-person open for if somebody from the public needs to access and for some reason can't get into Zoom from home because we can't, there's no way to space everybody out all the development review board members. There's no way to get them six feet apart from each other. And if there are members of public there, would you be able to project a screen share so that people can see what we're talking about? Yep. So the, what you see right now with the conference room, right, if you look at my picture, what we should be able to do is project a screen share onto that big screen so that they can see what we're all looking at and they'll call in via the conference room phone at the big table. So it really the, it would just be called and there'd be some physical presence, I'm not sure I understand who. If there's a member of the public who can't otherwise access via Zoom from their home or their place of business. They could come in. Then they could come in if, depending on, the stay at home order and where that's all fitting at that point. Okay. But the board itself would be by Zoom. The board itself and preferably all of the applicants and we're gonna try and push as many of the members of public as possible to do it all via Zoom from their own spaces. Okay. This is almost as good as late night television. You even have multiple channels to look at. There you go. All right. Meredith and Mike, thanks for setting this up on Zoom. Yes, it really worked pretty well once we got going. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And thanks to all the participants. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, everyone. Actually, the next item on our agenda is to approve the meeting minutes from March the 16th. I'll move that. And I'll second it. All in favor of approving the minutes from March the 16th, all the members who were present at that meeting give your approval. Eric says yes. Martha says yes. Steve says yes. So the minutes are approved. And again, our next meeting is on May the 18th. And unless anybody else has anything to add, do I hear a motion to adjourn? Is there, do we understand that Elisha and Pat were on the line? Is there an expectation? Meredith? They were on because of their interest in 105 State Street. Oh, okay. The loan properties is intending to buy the adjacent property. Okay. No, I was just wondering, I didn't know if there was something on the agenda that was missed that they had expected to participate in. But thank you. I was a little bit adjourned, right? Do I hear a second? I'll second. All in favor, speak up. Thanks. Are there any nays? No. Okay, good. Everyone in favor of adjourned, but Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Meeting is adjourned. Okay. Thanks, Steve.