Welcome everyone to today's campus town hall. We appreciate that everyone's busy, but it's good to take an hour out of our day and to get updates from campus leaders. If you have questions, please use the Q&A function, not the chat function for today's speakers. And if your question is not answered, you can send it after today's presentation to vca at Berkeley.edu. And we will get someone to answer and get back to you. With that, please join me in welcoming Vice Chancellor of Administration, Mark Fisher. Mark. Thank you, Bill. Good afternoon and welcome everyone. And thank you for joining us today. I hope your spring semester is going well. Today we're honored to have a number of campus leaders with updates on current topics, followed by our keynote speaker, Chancellor Christ. We will hear from our Chief People and Culture Officer Eugene Whitlock about the status of working remotely and what the eventual return to campus will look like. This is a very timely topic. Our Chief Information Officer, Jen Stringer will update us on the security breach at UCLP, which we learned about last week, share some other updates and encourage all of you to sign up for the experience benefit that's been offered to us. Associate Vice Chancellor of Capital Projects John Arvin and Campus Architect Wendy Hillis will update us on the Anchor House Project designated for University Avenue and Oxford Street, a very generous gift from a donor. Our first speaker is Dr. Guy Nicolette, Assistant Vice Chancellor and the Director of University Health Services with the latest update on the COVID pandemic and vaccines. Guy. Thank you, Mark. I'm going to share my screen right now. I didn't ask to give a COVID update, but I thought I would give a few more, a wider perspective, a real health update of the campus as we enter spring. So, and because I like interactivity, I thought I would start with just a poll, a quiz, if you will. So let's go ahead and launch this quiz. There are, there are wrong answers, but it doesn't matter, you're not being graded on this quiz. So for those, I'll go ahead and read the question in case anybody has a hard time seeing the questions. Question one is, how many tests do you think that UHS has performed since the start of the pandemic. The choices are on the screen from 2000 to 10,000, 10,000, 50,000, and on up to more than 200,000. Question two is how many unique people have been tested. And the third question, how many positive tests do you think we've had at UHS since the start of the pandemic. So I'll wait till all the votes come in. So because the panelists aren't allowed to vote. I'm not seeing any of the updated numbers. I'm hopefully I'll be able to see the actual final tally on this or that we're all able to see the final tally on this. But for those that wanted to wait for the information, here's the information that we have. The CDC tested over 26,000 unique individuals run over 268,000 tests and had about 1000 positive cases. Our case rate was extraordinarily low. If you put it in context of the county positive rate, the state positive rate or certainly the national positive rate. So I've been trying to highlight this that we've the Berkeley community has been extraordinary in our collective response to COVID and keeping our positivity rate, our clusters and outbreaks low. And I'm very, I'm very proud of us and I'm encouraged that we're starting to see a little bit of the light at the end of the tunnel. Correspondingly, right now we have very few people in isolation and quarantine you're expecting a large post bring break a surge and we really didn't see anything more than what I've been calling a bump. So again, very promising so far that we have us have escaped right for now a large surge. And there's our poll results. So most people got it right for for most of, well, the question number one, a high percentage got it right. And then question two and three interesting. So, after spring break. Again, we really have not seen anything more than a bump and so that leads us really into the, I'll call it the next phase of our of our COVID response which is vaccinations. As you probably experienced vaccination rollout was a challenge. It was a challenge locally at the state level and at the national level. The good news is, we are streamlining our response here locally, and we've, we've been able to through partnership with the city and the county secure some vaccinations to keep our program rolling. The next slide is our current and these I should have said these are widely available on our dashboard. If you just Google UHS. COVID dashboard you'll get to this, the six dashboards that we've been producing publicly one of them is the immunization dashboard that shows that we fully vaccinated 3500 or so. We've received Berkeley of our UC Berkeley community, and we've at partially that at least partially vaccinated about 5000, and we're, we are expecting some amount of COVID vaccine doses, particularly for students, although we have been following up those that we've given first doses to to make sure that everybody receives a second dose. And that's of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. We've also been told that we're going to receive Johnson and Johnson, which is a one dose series. So we will really start to increase the pace of our fully vaccinated population here, if all goes well. On the next slide. I really just want to point out that while the rollout has been indeed bumpy. We have applied multiple lenses to our own vaccine rollout. And it mattered age mattered. And it mattered for from a, a protect protection of those at highest risk. But we also did look at distribution and vaccine invitations, based on other demographic factors, salary tier, etc. And you'll see on the slide that I've, we've done a reasonably good job at consolidating those factors and having a vaccine distribution equity across multiple, you know, with most multiple lenses. That leads me to say that if you've received vaccines through the UHS, we, we know you we've got your record. If you receive vaccines from outside of UHS, there isn't a we now have the ability to collect that information securely. And under HIPAA protection through our portal. If you've used the portal before for testing, it's the same portal. It's just a different tab. Go to the immunization tab that I've shown there. And there's a button that will come up that says update your Kobe Kobe 19 vaccine, you can click update upload a picture and the dates of the vaccination. And if there ever is a mandate doing this will satisfy that mandate. And it really helps us understand the population vaccination, which is going to become an increasingly important part of our code responses to understand what percentage of our population that is vaccinated as we get back to in person activities. So, I know I've only got a couple more minutes but I really did want to highlight other things because I've been very excited that we've been able to be mission driven, maintain our mission, even through a pandemic. And part of that certainly has been mental health and we do expect a bit of an echo to the pandemic as people come out of kind of crisis mode, and start to realize that they, you know, have have either been in a short term or long term distress because of because of COVID or because of isolation or because of some of the after effects. So we, we really expect to transform our model because frankly the, the UA, the UHS and US collegiate health model for counseling and mental health really isn't prepared to meet demand that's been increasing now for five to 10 to 15 years. And so we are going to transform our model. This is a overly complicated but but excellent, frankly, graphic representation of the model that we're moving to. I'm lucky enough to to hire an expert in in stepped care, and, and now stepped care 2.0 that really takes a innovative approach to and improves continuity across all levels of care and better matches need and demand to level of care and doesn't force everybody into a one on one counseling model. So, we're, we're excited about this. We're incorporating a crisis response team into the thought of this model and so we're really excited for the for the future of our mental health response on campus. So for the health, we again maintained our mission. I'm very proud that we're able to maintain our primary care and urgent care services despite pulling a lot of those clinicians and physical health team members over to do coven related things. One aspect that I with my sports medicine background I guess I'm biased to highlight that we achieved a gold certification from the American College of Sports Medicine in exercises medicine campus. So, again, try to maintain our mission our service our preventive care, and I wanted to highlight that one of the bigger areas where we have a plenty of opportunity left is in our social and environmental health our infrastructure. Folks are feeling video fatigue and and we really need to integrate kind of in person meetings while maintaining some of the lessons learned about handling business and work and service remotely. I probably should have instituted more quickly at UHS things like 50 minute meetings because back to back zooms are just the norm now and we really were probably not as quick to respond as we should have in anticipating some of the mental health and social health implications of the ease with which we can now meet, even, even remotely. We need to think differently about spaces we need to work differently and I know Eugene's going to kind of talk about that so I won't go on about that. I will say that I've had this idea for the longest time to close down that bankrupt way and make it a green space and so we just have tons of opportunity from the from a health perspective to do things differently and and I'll view that as a silver silver lining of cove it. Lastly, looking ahead. We. There will still likely be restrictions to some level on coming from the state and local public health officials, I do not know when they are going to end, particularly masking. I also see we are going to completely flip to a vaccination based paradigm, versus the state blueprint the purple, red, orange and yellow tier, and that's already starting to happen with the announcement from the governor about June 15 mandates for a vaccination. I'm not going to be surprised to hear that there is consensus from from the UCs for a student mandate for back vaccines that I know that's on the table. And we are fully prepared to implement and incorporate a vaccine vaccination mandate for students into our regular immunization and vaccination program that will not be challenging to do. I'll just say that you know I, I see a campus for fall that might look normal on whatever normal was on on the outside, but that we will still have some restrictions like size of classes under 200 or some element of surveillance testing, and maybe and while I'm very optimistic that we will enter fall, you know, you know, much better place than we entered spring, there still might be some after effects or some, some things that we are still doing to to the pandemic as we as we transition from pandemic to endemic. And so, while I'm optimistic I just want to highlight the fact that we might still have some, some things that we, we have to do to make sure that we really do shift out of a pandemic. I think with that I'll stop mark thanks for the, for the opportunity to share some thoughts. Okay, thanks guy. I just want to say that you and everyone sort of involved with the effort around testing vaccinations and then just guidance over the last year, in terms of the pandemic have just done an extraordinary provide an extraordinary body of work and the effort is really remarkable. Next we have Eugene Whitlock Eugene are you ready. Yes, I am absolutely and I'll do my best to get us back on schedule thank you guys. So, you know, on everybody's mind is what's going to happen between now and the fall as we all know in the fall we expect our students to be back, primarily for in person classes and so that's going to have implications on staff who will need to be on a campus to support basically what I've been calling a reopening of our campus. On top of that the governor said a couple of days ago that we expect California on June 15 to be open for business. So, how do all of those things put together and what are we doing as a campus to prepare so first thing I want to say is, we aren't changing the date from when you should expect to return to campus we told people before through June 30 if you should expect to continue to work remotely. That's not going to change, but sometime after that date and before the start of semester, things are going to change, more likely around the middle of July there will be a point in time when we say hey everybody come back. Now, what does that mean everybody come back that doesn't necessarily mean that every individual has to come back and show up for work on that day. What should be happening between now and that point in time in mid July is that you should be having conversations with your supervisors through the chief together or just from conversations to talking about what is my work schedule going to look like for the future. There's a committee called the future of work committee and the deans have a corresponding committee that we're working on campus guidelines and a tool could to help people for those, through those conversations. But really what we want people to be thinking about is do I need to be on site every day in order to do my job in order to serve the mission of the university right that's going to be the overriding guiding principle. Things go as we're planning them to go on track around public health things that means vaccines are widely available people can get them if they want them. All of the restrictions have been lifted on gathering. You know we still may be required to wear masks but we can at least gather, then we can see a situation where people can come back to work as normal. One of the big things that's still up in the air is childcare independent care availability. And so this is also a big limiter for a lot of our population, half of our employees have minor dependence. And so summer camps aren't available or going towards the fall schools aren't open. What we do is going to be, you know, look through that lands in terms of if I want to make somebody quote unquote make somebody returned to campus, I have to work with that person on their schedule to make sure that they're still able to do what they have to do because alternative care arrangements aren't available. So when we think about flexible work arrangements in the future and we will have flexible work arrangements in the future, some of them might be somebody has a flexible schedule I started seven and I finish it I go home and pick up the kids, or I started seven I started eight I finish it to I stopped for two hours and I pick it up again for another two hours, and I'm working for home. Some people may work remotely. Some people may come in one day a week there are a lot of different combinations that might work depending on the business needs of the unit and the preferences of an individual. And so that the training and the guy that will be rolling out will help people have those conversations and think about what may or may not work for them. Before decisions are made we really hope to get this information out into people's hands to use it in June, so that you can start making your proposals to your supervisors if you want to work hybrid or if you want to work remotely your managers can talk with you about that if you need to request a reasonable accommodation. So because you can't come to work on site we want to give people plenty of time to get that process started. So the, there's a lot going on that individuals have to do as a campus, there's a lot that we have to do to get ready to welcome people back. So a lot of the buildings have been more or less shut down, we still have a lot of people coming to work every day, but a lot of buildings are more or less dormant, and they're not ready for people just to rush in. We don't have what we're going to do that we have to give our custodial staff time to do that.  So we have to recall workers to get those services ramped up so there are a lot of moving parts. So for those of you who might expect on June 16 it's all open for business just like Governor Newsom said, that's just not, that's just absolutely not possible because there are too many things that we have to do to make sure that the campus is ready and safe for us to reoccupy it. And so that's so I want to manage expectations I know we were, you know we in the recent morale survey, 34% of people said, you know they want to continue working remotely from home, a lot of you probably will be able to remote work remotely 8% of you said, you want to get back, you will have the opportunity to get back, but we all need to be patient, and we will get there. And I think I will stop there for now. I did that in five minutes it's okay. It's pretty great, Eugene Eugene you can pick up the time loss. Next everyone and let's welcome Jen Stringer, who's going to bring us up on the crisis to juror. And Jen are you there. Thanks Mark. I appreciate being this being the crisis to juror. Unfortunately, I think many of you, I hope all of you know that we've had a very serious security breach at the Office of the President, the campus and the Office of the President itself has been communicating through our entire campus community. And rather than go through sort of the details of those communications, what I really wanted to do today is share with you. What I did last night, which is, I got on the Experian website. I've shared all of my information, including the information that we oftentimes tell you be very careful. Don't put your social security number in just any site. But those communications that we have been sending to you including the Experian code. We are encouraging everyone to sit down, do what I did, which is put that information in for myself. I sat down with my spouse. I sent that information to my adult children who happen to be beneficiaries on some of my accounts. And I am encouraging all of you to do the same. I'm also encouraging you to share that information with people who work for you with students. Just about everyone who honestly has some sort of connection with the Berkeley campus and with the UC system as a whole, whether they're students, whether they're parents of students, whether they are employees, whether they are spouses or minor members of employees may have been impacted by this particular incident, which is why we are really encouraging folks to sign up for the experience service that is being offered currently through the UC office of the president. I'm looking to see if there are any questions in the chat, but I will leave it there. And again, encourage also managers to give their staff time to do this, it is not easy. And so, again, we're encouraging people to allow their staff to use work time, just like we would if we were asking them to do their security training which we're encouraging you to do as well. If you have anyone who has been a beneficiary of or listed in any of your paperwork, I would encourage you to have them sign up. So, if it's stepchildren, if you're not a legal guardian but they were beneficiaries on your retirement count. Yes, account. Yes, have them sign up for the experience service. Again, we are casting a wide net and this particular point in time. My husband is on my medical plan. Yes, he should sign up for experience. I have life lock should you still go to the experience site. Absolutely double coverage is better. So I would encourage you even if you're using something else to sign up for the experience service as well. I would say don't share the enrollment code that was actually sort of on early advice that Office of the President is now providing that actually on a public website and encouraging people to use that code and share it so share the code with anybody that you think might have been impacted. How much time can we take off work to do the experiment so I'm not encouraging you to take time off from work what I'm encouraging people to do is on work time. We think that it should take anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour. To actually fill out the information so that is that is sort of the expectation but it might take longer depending on how many people you're doing it for. I think if you saw minor children have their own code or have their own link and you should make sure that you're taking a look at that. So to share more about what got hacked. What I can share is what is publicly available right now, which is, you know, we do believe, but that the information includes but is not limited to birthdays, home addresses, telephone numbers, social security and bank account information. It is very serious. And again that is just what we it is. That is the information that we know but it's not limited we're still continuing to do forensics and it will take quite a bit of time before we really understand the extent, which is why we're encouraging everyone to go ahead and sign up for the experience website. Can we expect more guidelines. Okay, that's a different question. I'm just making sure to great question season about language translations. Thank you. Actually Berkeley pushed really hard for the current Spanish translation that is up on the uc op website. We have heard that they are looking at additional translations we have been pushing hard for a Chinese basic Chinese translation as well. Other campuses and other, you know, sites may need different translations they are aware that this needs to happen but you see op is working on translating those the letter. Unfortunately, the experience website is in English, which means that we are encouraging people who need help to have someone with them, who can help them navigate the site, so that they can actually understand what information they're supposed to be answering and can do that accurately. If you have any questions in the chat, please go ahead. But other than that, again, I would encourage you to take some take this seriously, sign up spend some time like I did. I did it last night, but you know, maybe after this, not now, not right now because we still have really good stuff to listen to. Certainly even after this site, this town hall, it might be the first thing that you want to take a look at as you get back to your regular business day. All right. Thank you, Mark. Great, thanks Jen it's really helpful and my wife and I did the same thing we we took time this week. It does take a little bit of time you have to have your paperwork ready bank accounts credit cards. And since passports, everything has to be sort of in hand to put into the account, but I definitely encourage everyone to do it and Jen there's still some more questions in there that hopefully you can provide answers for including there was one a question about experience being hacked at one point so if you could address those that would be extremely helpful. Next up are John Arvin and Wendy Hillis who are going to talk about our anchor house project. Wendy, John. Good afternoon everybody. I'm going to share my screen here. Can everybody see that. Yes. Yeah, okay good. Okay, I was going to share with you today. Our anchor house project it's one of several student housing projects that we've got underway. The anchor house project will be located on the full city block just across the street from campus bounded by Oxford University Walnut and Berkeley way it's just across the street from the West Crescent. This very generous donor has wanted to prioritize the anchor house project for transfer students it's a population that is historically underserved by our campus housing. The proceeds from this building will also fund annual scholarships, we estimate approximately 175 scholarships will be funded out of proceeds from this building. They will be targeted for first generation called students and other underrepresented populations. We probably all heard me talk about our goals for housing, our overall goals to build nearly 10,000 new student beds on this project will deliver 772 of them, a significant percentage of our overall goal. Our team is headed up by a well known architect out of New York Morris ad me, we've also got a local architect, the building will be 526,000 square feet as I mentioned it'll include 772 beds. There will be about 15,000 feet of ground floor commercial along the perimeter of the building and I'll show you a couple of renderings of the building here in a minute. The first gift that we're being provided, all of the design all of the construction will be paid for by the donor. Once the building is completed will be turned over to us to run. And as I mentioned, we will be funding scholarships out of the surplus proceeds from the building. This is a rendering of the building these are just massing this is not architecture but the anchor house massing is depicted there in gray to show the size and scale of the building when completed. We've compared that to two new buildings that are currently being built in the city of Berkeley just to give you some context that center blue building is the new Marriott hotel that's under construction now. And here's that same massing of viewed towards the west. It's a significant building. Here's a good picture of it so it's going to be 14 stories tall. The entrance is going to be there on Oxford Street, you can see it a little bit in the center of the building off of the street. This is also a good perspective to kind of explain how the building will work on the ground floor. The double story height that you see along the perimeter that will be all the retail that retail be open to the public. And the second floor which is kind of that double height story that you see here on the corner it's that full height that's the second level. In order to get to the second level you'll enter into this main lobby and go up an elevator or stairs to get to the second level. The second level will be open to anybody with a cow ID so it'll be students that live in the building students that don't live in the building and faculty and staff will all be permitted to go into the second level of this building. We're calling that the cow public in the second level there'll be a cafe, there'll be a gym. There's a maker space, they are building what is called the locker room, and that is intended for transfer students that commute into campus to be able to lay down their backpacks and hang out in between classes. There will be a teaching kitchen for our CNR, and we are also going to locate an art design studio in there, similar to the art design studio that's on campus now. And then floors three through 14 will all be student residences. These will all be apartment style, they will be for four students per per unit, each student will have a private bed. There will be two bedrooms of the building. You'll see here on the left, every third floor there'll be balconies that you can come out and look at views towards campus there's the similar treatment on the west side so there'll be these views towards the bay. And then on the right this is a close up of the corner and this is the corner facing campus, and this is the cafe seating that you see here. It's open. There's a close up of the Oxford frontage. This is the ground floor retail here. This is the main entry into the building. Quite nice. A quick shot of the landscape intended there'll be perimeter landscaping in the public right of way. In the second floor, the building is going to be built in the shape of a donut, taking up the whole city block so there'll be a core in the building to light and air and on the second floor there'll be actually a courtyard there's a rendering in here in a minute that I'll show you. There are a couple of outdoor locations on the 13th floor, one facing campus one facing the northwest. These will be used for a special event, special events, and then finally there'll be a rooftop deck with some vegetable garden. Here are some renderings. This is the cafe on the second floor. This is the rooftop deck concept and this is the interior courtyard here. Here are some renderings of the inside of the building, the lobby, the gym of dimension, some of the maker space that we intend to build. Again, this is all being funded by this very generous donor. And then finally a quick timeline on where we are so we've been working very diligently over the last couple of years we started approximately two years ago. Since that time, we've been to the capital planning committee and internal process we've gotten a couple of approvals there. We've been to the design, we commute design review committee on four different occasions. We've been to the regions twice. And we are preparing ourselves to go to the regions one final time this July for a project approval, and we intend to start construction shortly thereafter construction take us a little over two years and we hope to be open for business in the fall of 2024. Now today, thank you very much for your time. If you have any questions, I'm happy to follow up. You can send me an email, and I'd be happy to follow up with you. Thank you, Mark. Great. Thanks, John. This is such a phenomenal project. Next up is our Chancellor, Chancellor Chris, is Carol here. Great. Dan Mugov too. Sorry about that Dan. No worries at all. I'm not the attraction by any stretch of the imagination. So we'll jump right in. We have about 20 minutes left. Thanks for joining us today. It's a pleasure to be here and good to see so many people virtually. And hopefully soon physically. Let's start with one of the bigger elephants in the room we got a lot of questions and I'm going to try to condense them into some big buckets and perhaps the biggest bucket of all is the budget. Where do we stand right now? It seems like we've had a lot of federal money flowing out to public higher education into Berkeley. It seems that we're people are talking about, you know, coming out of the worst times. Has our situation improved? Are we past the challenges? What's the forecast? What's the current status? Thanks for that. For that question, Dan. Yes, indeed. We've had some quite good budget news over the last several weeks. First of all, the state has restored the cut that it made in its allocation to the University of California. So that's very good news. And then we're receiving, as you said, a pretty substantial money from the last two CARES Act. As I said, there still really are some challenges. First of all, the CARES Act funding is one time money. It's really going to help with some of our, the areas about housing and dining is the most important of them that have had huge losses in the past year, and we'll be able to make up those losses. The use of the CARES Act is quite restricted. It has to be directed toward specific pandemic, specifically pandemic related losses. And the state has restored our budget to the 1920 level. It's obviously 1920, I mean, 2021, not the 1920 level, the 2019, 2020 level. And it's clearly later than that. And it costs us just standing still about $50 million a year for salary increases and cost increases. We are therefore going to have to continue the $65 million reduction in our, in the budgets of the units for another year. However, I'm happy to say that a furlough is off the table. And we're using every bridging strategy we know because we think this is a V shaped problem in our budget. And that we should recover as we continue to recover from the pandemic and the economy continues to recover. So not to put too fine a point on it, but are we looking at many years? Do you think of pretty tough conditions and challenges another year? What do you see on the road ahead? What should our expectations be? I think we should be recovered by 2023. I wouldn't say it's going to be over like flipping a switch. There were still challenges in our budget even before the pandemic hit. We had just eliminated $150 million structural deficit. And I like to say our budget was precariously balanced and the pandemic has really knocked us off balance. But we're working really very energetically to multiply and diversify revenue sources and as those revenues start kicking in will be in better financial shape. I also really hope that the regions will take up what's called cohort tuition, tuition increase that only applies to the entering class and then that tuition stays steady for all the years that that entering class is at Berkeley. And I think when we break this tuition log jam that things will get much better. So I remember when the pandemic really began to take hold and the financial consequences for the campus became clear. You know, there were two priorities that you said one was to protect the academic core the academic excellence the institution the other was to see everything through an equity lens to protect the most vulnerable among our staff and among our students. How do you think we've been doing on those two fronts. I, we have certainly been striving to do well on those two fronts. I think that I mean I don't like to talk about us news and World Report, but they just have come out. We're a graduate programs and Berkeley has done extraordinarily well as it usually does I think it's not that our academic departments are not feeling the stress of this year and multiple ways including financial ways but I we've been our faculty recruiting is continuing to go well or retention is continuing to go well. So I feel very good about our academic programs, the, the, the, the pandemic has been a huge, it has hugely exacerbated inequality. I use the phrase a lot, we're all in the same storm we're not in the same boat. And I just think it's incredibly incredibly difficult for some students for some staff for some faculty is the fact that school has been in in session in live face to face for over a year now that people are so people are struggling with childcare they're struggling with supervising remote instruction for their children. Many people are struggling with job loss, maybe not from UC but from, you know, a spouse might have lost a job or a child might have lost a job. And then of course people are struggling with illness with with the pandemic. So it's not an easy time. Thank you for that. Let's stay in the money realm for a second we're in the midst of a capital campaign and I think probably some might say this would be the worst of times to launch but how's it going what do you what are you seeing. We're doing extremely well that we're at about $4.3 billion raised out of our $6 billion goal. I, one of the things I'm sure that you all have seen through just reading the papers that this again the pandemic has been an inequality amplifier the very wealthy in this campaign are are, I mean, I mean during this pandemic are doing well. I mean, people seem to be more motivated to be generous more motivated to think about their legacy. And so I've been so moved and inspired by all of the alumni and other supporters of the university, who have stepped forward with absolutely gifts like anchor house that you were just, you were just hearing about but many gifts for emergency financial aid for our students many, many gifts for for a financial aid for students for graduate fellowships. So I've been just really inspired by by our donors and the campaign is going very well. And then to connect the first two questions this always comes up and we talk about philanthropy to what extent will the success of the capital or could the success of the capital campaign help alleviate some of the short term budgetary challenges or my mixing apples and oranges. I think you're mixing apples and oranges a little bit I mean certainly if we have more money for financial aid that's really wonderful if we have more money for graduate fellowships that's really wonderful. But nobody gives us a gift to pay the utilities bill, or to pay for price increases and supplies that they're that's those are really different buckets. Nobody pays to to pay for salary increases for staff so the budgetary challenges remain even though I'm really thrilled at the generosity of our donors and it is. It is helping us make Berkeley as distinguished and excellent as it aspires to be. I'm going to change to the area of housing we heard from our colleague john arvin earlier about the wonderful gateway project. What about the housing initiative student housing initiative in general. And also, let's talk about in general about how things are progressing right now that I want to ask you about people spark. Certainly moving forward with a number of other housing projects we're developing a housing project for graduate students that will be an expansion of Albany Village. That's obviously down in Albany where University Village is now. We also are going to receive a gift of an apartment building in Emeryville for graduate students so it's a wonderful, wonderful gift and another donor is really moved by the urgency of our student housing needs. And then of course we're continuing to plan for the people spark project. Speaking of people's Park it's been in the news quite a bit lately there have been a few incidents of crime there was a story about the homes of Berkeley administrators, having been attacked or you know vandalized. There's been some student activism and opposition to campus plans. I'm wondering if you're reconsidering at all and what you assess and what your thoughts are about the road ahead road ahead for the development of the park. So anyone who lives in Berkeley or indeed in the day or cannot be troubled by the tragedy of homelessness that surrounds us everywhere. The population has really increased during the pandemic. And I believe that Berkeley has a very important role to play in working with the city to try to create more housing options for the homeless. That we are in the plan for people's Park first of all we have a social worker on our on our staff that is now successfully housed over 60 of the homeless people who frequent the park they're in mother 20 to 25 that are in for being housed. And one of the plan for people's Park is for you to use a quarter of the site is 129 apartments with 180 beds for permanent supportive housing for the homeless this isn't a shelter. This is permanent supportive housing the supportive means they'll be services in the building like medical services that that will be for the tenants of the building and also the larger unhoused population. Then a quarter of the site will be a park. That I think will be unlike the current park which is a hard place to imagine to take your kids to play, or have a really relaxing time in a park, but a quarter of it will be a park that will be in a beautiful design by Walter hood. And that will both commemorate the history of people's Park and I hope really be a people's Park. I think a lot about what is people's Park mean now not in 1969 but now. And what people's Park means now I think is giving some of our resources to indeed help the people who are homeless, and to have a park that really is like the park in 1969 was a resource for people. And then to help our students who desperately need housing by using half the sign for housing. Thanks for that you know another thing that's been in the news is this a new joint program with between Mills and Berkeley and there's been speculation about other grander plans. Where do things stand in terms of our relationship with Mills and are thinking about the future of that relationship. I, I think all of us who, who treasure, both liberal arts colleges and women's colleges as I certainly do for my own education from my experience at Smith. We're very, very sad when Mills made the announcement that this year's freshman class that's just been admitted will be the last class will be admit and they'll only grant degrees for two more years so Mills like many small colleges is was in fragile financial condition before the pandemic and the pandemic has made what was a difficult path seem impossible. So we're very much in discussion with Mills it's too easy early to say what those conversations will lead to it's obviously would be a very complex transaction. If there were some kind of association between Mills and the University of California. Got it. You know you mentioned at the beginning you talked about the extent to which the pandemic both amplified and exacerbated racial and socio economic inequities and of course it was in May that we witnessed and horror the murder of George Floyd, many of those memories are coming back to the trial. Where do things stand on our own campus some of the efforts that were perhaps added fuel where fuel was added in the wake of both of George Floyd's murder and the resurgence of the black lives matter movement specifically reimagining community safety where do things stand with the campus and UCPD right now. Well, they're there on the independent advisory board on public safety. This past summer, you should report with, I think about 100 recommendations we've accepted almost every one of them, and we're in the process of implementing them. I think the most significant ones are the following. The first is to stand up a team of mental health professionals will be the first responders and wellness checks or mental health emergencies so that's, I think really good I'm not sure the police as, as, as fine as they are and many respects are always the best people to intervene and mental health emergencies. We've moved out of the police department a number of things that don't need to be there are our emergency services program emergency planning. The fingerprinting operation, the keying operation and things that the, the clear react compliance we've moved out of the police department there's a big conversation going on that system wide. There have been two day long symposia that were held on policing I think that the system itself is going to come up with a set of guidelines for campuses but it's, it's a very important challenge both to make sure that the police that we control, which is the police on this campus is, is, is operates in a, in an anti racist manner, and that we have the set of public safety, the public safety staffing the public safety programs the public safety protocol that makes everyone in the community safe and feel safe. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. No, so we just had somebody pose a question and whether we're still thinking of spending the large amount of money required to locate to relocate you see PD. I that's a question that will have to give some very careful thought to when I originally said, I would try to low relocate the police department, I thought this would be easy. But it turns out that it's going to be a very expensive proposition so we'll have to think about that carefully, and how it's what the best use of that money is, even within the realm of public safety. I also want to hop back to the budget because a couple of questions popped up and even though we have just a few minutes left I want to do want to be responsive related to the budget to separate questions people wondering saying, I don't really want furloughs out the table given the challenges the opera in terms of operating budget, and why is there going to be a salary increase and this person says I like salary increases, but why are we having them now so sort of two different areas people wondering about why we've taken those arrows out of our quiver so to speak. Well, I think furlough was always the last resort. I don't think I mean it's a salary cut by another name, basically. And I think people at the on the Berkeley campus are extraordinarily skilled. It's incredibly hard, and I want to see them fairly compensated and and especially feel that it that it was a, it was a real sacrifice this year that our non represented staff did not get salary increases, and I'm eager to see salary increases return next year, and certainly don't want to be giving with one hand and taking away with the other. That makes sense so we have about three minutes left I would like to step back with you for one second. You know I'm wondering what you've learned this incredible year, what you've learned about the staff and the campus in the last year and how you're thinking may have changed about the road ahead about the possibility of lasting change so maybe some reflection and some help us see what you're seeing as we look down the road. I think one of the things I've learned is how extraordinary our campus is I this is been a crisis that has tried us all. It's just so every day so thankful and inspired by the creativity by the resilience by the imagination by the dedication of staff so I want to say thank you to all of you for what has been incredible work in an incredibly trying here. One of the things that I've learned is that a time of crisis can also be a time of great creativity and and and ferment creative ferment. And so I one of the things I've learned personally is how you believe when you don't know what the next day is kind of. And there's this combination of both a need for decisiveness and yet a willingness to be able to adapt on the fly as conditions on the ground change is what we know changes. But I really hope that the trying conditions that we've all been subject to this year will lead us to some better ways of working I hope that remote work is not a thing of the past when the pandemic ends but that we will have more hybrid arrangements for work. I hope that remote instruction is going to be a very important arrow in our quiver, help us to extend the incredible benefits of a Berkeley education to more people, enable students to have something that I've been calling a city of place whereby they could take up an internship and still make progress on on their on their on their coursework. So I do think this has been a time of a real creative ferment, in addition to crisis and that's certainly one of the things I'm taking away from it and one of the things that I want to want to have stay with us. I think it would be very sad to say that this crisis had not brought us to some better ways of doing things and to some real benefits as as an institution. And I'm wondering and some do you feel confident about the university's future or somewhat trepidatious giving all these changes and challenges. I feel incredibly confident about the university's future. I, I just that the people here, which is what the university is are just extraordinary. So I want to again, and with thanks to all of you. So just one quick thing to correct a misapprehension that came up in the chat we're not actually spending university money to house the homeless, we have an employee who helps connect those who are unhoused in the park with city and county services. Right now we'll bounce back and say Chancellor Chris thank you very very much for your time and for your efforts over this past year and your leadership. And as they say, back to you in the studio mark. Thank you Carol thank you so much that was awesome. There was a question about whether this was being recorded it was being recorded. I think it was also a request that we have some sort of meeting like this to talk about the experience business and more detail. And I will leave that to Jen Stringer and Eugene perhaps figure out what that might be shaped like but I think it's a very good idea. Bill anything I missed that I should say at the end here. I could just thank you for coming today. Thanks everybody greatly appreciated. Thank you. Thank you.


Hi, I'm Christian Glombeck. I'm a senior software engineer at Ratat. I work in the OpenShift Arc, been on a couple of teams there currently on the specialist platform team that works on integrating new platforms, or adding support for new platforms and providers. And previously, I was on the machine config operator team and the core team. And I've also been co-leading the OKD working group for some time. And my name is Vadim Lutkovsky, I work for Redhead in the Edge group. And today we join forces to speak about our community distribution, which is called OKD. We'll start with doing an overview on what OKD4 is. Then we'll move on to more detailed features in its current state of the union for the OKD. Then we'll talk about how OKD fits into the whole ecosystem and what other features does it enable. The OKD is our community distribution of Kubernetes it's composed from the volunteers from mostly Redhead, but also other companies are being involved as they get to use most of the OpenShift code base. But instead of the Rail Core OS, we use the basis of the Dora Core OS. This decision was made so that we could streamline the contributions sooner into the end final product instead of passing it through the level of Dora than getting into Rail and then for the customers. You can find more information on the site called OKD.io. As you can see, the OpenShift is effectively OpenShift with a slight difference of branding, other than that the goal is to provide all the features that OCP has with an option for the community to participate and make decisions where the distribution is going. More into details of the current state. We're mostly focusing on a rolling release model where we have one single stream for consumers to use it. We're currently at release 4.10. The goal is to provide most of the features of the OCP without any requiring subscription. So we have a customized installer and machine config operator to make it run on top of the Dora Core OS. And a lot of features like monitoring, additional operators you're using, the operator hub, are also available. We also provide a contributing guide for the newcomers how to get involved into making changes, making your own custom OCP and we're actively helping community to get involved so that we would get an additional validation of what features we provide to humans. OCP also sits in between operator hub upstream and Fedora communities. So since we use Fedora Core OS, we also get all the new features coming in Fedora. And you can also make use of all the features coming in operator hub and participating in those communities using OCP as a starting platform. Another goal of the OCP is to get new technologies enabled preferably by default. For instance, OCP was the first distribution to use Segnation version 3 first. And now we are defaulting to C Groups V2 enabled by default before OCP does that. And there are smaller examples similar to that. And with that, I'll pass it to Christian. Thank you Vadim. Yeah, next up, the ecosystem. We don't just collaborate with the operator hub and Fedora communities. We collaborate with quite a few communities and have a few users that make use of OKD. One prime example you heard of today already is MicroShift, which right now, as it's not a product yet, uses OKD pieces to get built. And that's an interesting project. And yeah, one of the things we've kind of started or we're started within OKD and are now going to be productized. And obviously, that's very exciting to get to the edge and enable small scale deployments. And maybe in the future, things like AB availability, highly available AB deployments. We don't have a real cluster, but just two machines that back each other up. Then one interesting effort we're currently working on, which is kind of led by the Fedora CoroS community, is the CoroS layering effort. We're going to use that in OKD soon. We're not doing it yet. But that is going to enable you to create derived operating system images from the base OS tree, which in our case in OKD is Fedora CoroS. For the product, it would be Rel CoroS. And with this, you can actually use a Docker file to install more things into your image and create the image beforehand and then use it later on as the machine OS content image that is used as the machine config operator uses rights to disk as the operating system. So there's going to be a lot of interesting things going to happen happening with CoroS layering, because that'll just enable us to have a much easier development flow in comparison to what we have today with the current machine OS encapsulation, where the machine OS image is, you probably know this, you might not, we ship the OS as a container image, as a OCI container image. And then we have the machine config operator that extracts that OS tree, the directory structure, and writes it to disks. And we reboot into the new version. With this, it's going to be very similar, but the container that ships the operating system is actually usable just like any other container. Right now, we have a special encapsulation where you can't just use the machine OS container like a normal container with CoroS layering. You can actually use that OS tree image just as you would use any other container. So you can either boot it or you can run it as a container, which is pretty cool. And then you also just heard about the operate-first cloud. So we're going to collaborate with them. We're going to try to spin up a few OKD clusters. So you can also use them. I just want to really plug this operate-first. If you want to gain experience or get to know OpenShift in general or OKD, please do try it. It's great. And then we have actually two subworking groups in OKD. One is mentioned here. It's the docs working group, which has been very active and has been doing great work on our docs website. We actually built the docs from the same sources as the OCP, the OpenShift product docs. But obviously, there's a few slight changes we need to refer to Fedora and the OKD pieces instead of the rel pieces. We have a second subworking group, which is the virtualization subgroup, which came from the Overt community. And we want to provide essentially a way that subworking group wants to provide a way to migrate Overt workloads into OpenShift, into OKD. And that is built on Qvert. So that's the OKD virtualization subworking group. If you're interested in working with us, collaborating with us, or just getting to know the developers behind OKD or the wider community, we have the OKD working group. And everybody's invited to join. Check out OKD.io for the main website. Our docs are on docs.okd.io. We also have an issue tracker on GitHub, which is the OpenShift OKD repository. And then if you want to find us on chat for questions or anything else, we are in the OpenShift users channel on the Kubernetes Slack. And there's also a matrix channel on the Fedora project instance, which is the OKD channel. We also have a calendar that you can subscribe to. There's the bi-weekly OKD working group meetings on their anti-bi-weekly docs meetings. So yeah, if you want to join us, please go ahead and hit us up. I also want to plug the Fedora CoreOS working group if you're interested more in core operating system work. We have a liaison from the CoreOS group in the OKD working group, just as we have a liaison from the Machine Config operator in the OKD working group. And the Fedora CoreOS working group has their own meetings weekly on IRC. There's also the Fedora CoreOS tracker. So if you hit any issues with the base operating system or afterburn any of the tools that are part of the base operating system, then that's the right tracker to file things or just to track development of Fedora CoreOS. Yeah, there's a discussion forum on the Fedora forums. There's the mailing list as well. And again, the calendar for the meetings. And with that, we're already through. If we do have some time for questions, we'll take questions if there are any. Otherwise, thank you very much for listening to us. So I just have a quick question. Because we have a raging debate between Slack and Matrix. That's been the latest thing. We're going to bridge those. We're going to bridge Slack and Matrix. How many people are using Matrix? A few. And how many people are in Slack? Yeah. OK. Well, if we make a bridge between the two of those things. We're going to be bridging that. Because the Fedora community is mostly active on the Matrix, which is bridged with IRC. The libera.chat IRC. So we want to really bring together both the Fedora and the OpenShift communities. And so we'll set up a bridge for the Matrix and the Slack channel as soon as we figure out how to do that. Cool.


because they they talk about it as a as a as a one single group right as all of your hair but you can talk about individual hairs right so have we heard what do what does what is a quantifier does anyone know what is that right so quantifier we are trying to yeah the amount exactly perfect so we are talking about the what word does this sound like if I took just this right here quantity is there a word that you can think of quantity right we had two letters quantity so that's basically what that is but so it's interesting because we use this to talk about like how much the quantity right so we've heard we've heard that we've heard of this a little in a class before it's like what we were just talking about if you're at a restaurant and you you know you have too much pepper or can I please have a little pepper or can I have a few ice cubes that is too many ice cubes everything we just talked about would be quantifiers um yeah but we would use much or many it depends on if they're countable so in quantifiers your answer would be there are countable and there are uncountable so I'll give you an example if you say much and many which one of them are countable many right much we would use with uncountable so you would say that's too much sauce you're not going to somehow count the sauce right or that's too much pepper you're not going to see the waiter go if you do you ever say three three please okay one two three there you go you can write but that but we well we don't do that right so that's exactly what they are so like a large quantifier if we want to talk about like a large quantifier how would you say that you want a big amount of something you would say I want I want a lot of did you say a lot of exactly a lot of how do we say that a lot of or there's something that sounds very close to this same structure you would say I want you could say something very similar so that would be lots of have you ever heard have you ever said lots of like I would like lots of ice in my water or I do not want lots of ice yeah you can use you can use lots of yes you can use I would like lots of ice in my water please or you can or this one well the of but that's it and then this one you need the the a yeah so those are the two but what you cannot do is a lot a lot so if you don't do a lot of that's what you that's that that's what you can't do you can use these two


We'll join us very, very shortly but at mine o'clock it's time for a news update and it's over to Catherine Gaffney. Thanks Greg, good morning. Some patients have been waiting over four years for a hospital procedure according to a leading HSC official. The target is for our patient list to be down to 18 months by December and a year for inpatient procedures. Just under 700,000 people are waiting for one of these consultations at the moment. Tony Canavan, the chief executive of the Sail to Hospital group which covers Donnie Gull, says the targets will be difficult to achieve. There are patients on our waiting list that are waiting in excess of four years currently and the numbers of those patients has increased to this age during the Covid period. The majority of patients on waiting lists are within a two year timeframe, the vast majority, but there are patients that are waiting for three and even four years for appointments and treatments. The HSC chief executive says Ireland and our child and adult mental health services are providing a good level of care for those who need it. A review published this week found 46 children were significantly harmed after being prescribed inappropriate medication by a junior doctor in the CAMHS service in South Kerry. The government's indicated those involved will be compensated, however, it is expected to also lead to a series of medical negligence cases. But HSC CEO Paul Reed says while what happened is wrong, it doesn't mean the public can't have faith in CAMHS. I don't undermine at all what happened in this case. It was wrong by any assessment. I do want to assure the public what is in place are a whole suite of supports, not just in CAMHS, which is for a really smaller percentage of people who are suffering with mental illness, but a whole range of supports in the community are there and we want to make sure they're strong and continue to grow. And there's calls for the HSC to prioritise the restoration of day services at Carrandona Community Hospital. The service was withdrawn almost two years ago and it was confirmed in November last year that the HSC property management team were tasked with finding a suitable alternative facility in Carrandona. Councillor Albert Doherty, who is a member of the Regional Health Forum West, is now in response to a lack of progress by the HSC appealing for assistance from the community to enable the sourcing of a suitable and appropriate facility. On Tuesday of this week, the HSC property management team again said that finding a suitable alternative facility in the Carrandona area was proving daunting. So I'm making an appeal today again that if there's somebody out there that believes their facility is a suitable facility that will allow and enable us to come back sooner rather than later, then please get in contact with myself or with HSC. Whether or not a cloudy start with patchy rain and drizzle, which will linger into the afternoon and evening temperatures of 9 to 11 degrees. We're back with more at 10 o'clock. Until then, good morning. Have you heard the news? The Irish Independent has a new podcast. We're not in the fairytale business as journalists. We're in the truth business and the question was there. 20 minutes, five days a week. The Indo Daily takes you beyond the headlines and into Ireland's most talked about stories. 25 years on, people are absolutely fascinated again with this case. The Indo Daily podcast, named one of Apple's best new podcasts of 2021. And now it's time for the talk of the Northwest, The 9 to Noon Show with Greg Hughes on Highland Radio. And a very good morning to you. On this Friday, the 28th of January, it's four minutes past nine and you're very welcome along to today's 9 till Noon Show. Our lines are open for you right now. Michaela taking your calls and comments to 0749125,000 if you want to get involved in the conversation. You can do so also via WhatsApp or text 0866025,000. If email is your thing, comments at highlandradio.com. And if you want to watch the program and engage with us there, you can go onto our website, highlandradio.com, and you'll be able to click through and watch in your browser, or you can hop on YouTube, Highland Radio Ireland, or on Facebook, on either of our Facebook pages. Alright, let's introduce you to our Friday panel this morning. We'll say good morning first to Breed Corins. Good morning to you, Breed. Great to have you back on the program. How are you keeping? Thanks a million for having me back. Thank you. Now it's our pleasure. Also, Amy McGee, All Ireland, at Window with Donnie Gold, columnist, and a guest on this program. Hi, Amy. Hey, Greg. How's the farm? Long time no see. How are you keeping? I'm keeping good. I'm keeping good. Brilliant stuff. Good. The form's alright. And finally, Leonard Watson, owner of Watson's Men's Wear and Member of Letter Kenny Chamber. The only question from Leonard is, how long will it take for him to try and plug the St. Patrick's Day parade in Letter Kenny? We'll see. Hi, Leonard. Good morning, Greg. Morning, folks. Alright, okay. We're not immediately, so we're doing all that. I'll be diplomatic here. Alright, good man. Now, during the week, T. Shockley Hill-Martin described a review of the care of more than 1,300 children who attended the HSC RunSouth Carey Child and adolescent mental health service, known more generally as CAMHS, as very, very serious and unacceptable. He described it as a profoundly serious issue and told that all today demands a fundamental review. That was earlier in the week. He said the HSC report is a damning indictment of the service provided under CAMHS in South Carey. Following the publication of the report, there'll be a full audit nationwide of compliance with CAMHS operation guidelines. In addition, a prescribing audit will be conducted in each of the 72 CAMHS teams to include a random selections of files proportionate to the medical caseload from a continuous six-month predefined time period in 2021. This obviously was a focus on South Carey, very, very disturbing, but it seems inevitable would you agree, Leonard, that they're going to uncover similar situations around the country or is that an unfair assessment? It's just we've been contacted by multiple people who heard the awful experience of those young people and their families and saying, you know, that's what we've experienced. Yeah, George, Greg, like I'll send to people yesterday, when you need the help of CAMHS, your families in desperation, you know, you have a child or an adolescent who really needs help. As you're at the end of your tether, like from personal experience, my family, we're trying to deal with CAMHS at the moment, but it's just a situation that what happened in Carey was absolutely awful. Like here in Donegal, we're having, it's a different situation. You cannot get an appointment with CAMHS. Our personal situation, seven months, it took us for them to actually speak to us, and then you get a letter out to say that you're now in the waiting list, and it's going to be six months plus. But this is a seven-year-old child here who's got complex needs in that, and, you know, to tell you it's not an emergency, you're waiting over a year. Like, you know, they just, it's just, it's just graceful. Like, it's just the whole system needs a full review. Like, you know, at all. What support might a family get in that intervening time? You know, because obviously, as you say, people are in a situation that, you know, right, we're going to have to go to CAMHS, right? So, and maybe if you didn't know the background, you might think that you are instantly, you know, in a process of getting support or care. That clearly is not the case. You're told there's a waiting list and so on and so forth. So what is supposed, what are parents supposed to do and guardians in the meantime? Greg, you've left yourself. Like, a lot of people will chat to you and tell you, you know, we're trying to help you here, but that doesn't work when you're at home or you're giving adolescence. It's maybe up on like, in our case, like it's just how we feel as ADHD and autism. Like, and you know, it's a seven-year-old child. It's also called a life for the family. It's, you know, but it's not just us. This is hundreds of families around Donegalite. This is a wider problem in Donegalite. And I'm sure other counties do are having somewhere or different problems. Like, you know, even they're in a part of respite centres in Donegalite, which is a vital for some families. Two of them are shut at the moment. There's only two open moments where they're picking up the slack for the whole county. Something has to give that. And when I ask the questions, it's all about, it just seems to come back to you fundamentally.  And that, you see, this is the thing. This report, this review will be conducted. And, you know, as we said on the programme yesterday, I think we can probably predetermine much of the outcomes of it. Yeah, Joe, like I heard, I heard the t-shirt, our tonnage just saying, you see, most children seem within 48 hours or a lot of children. I would love to see statistics of that there. Like, you know, when you get a letter out, it doesn't even give you a date. It just says six months plus. That could be a year. That could be a year and a half. And what do you meant to do with that year and a half? You know, you just have to protect that child as much as you can and make sure they're not in danger. And you know, it's just, it's a terrible, terrible indictment on our system, right? And we said yesterday that the state will consider an official apology to children and parents impacted by the report into prescription practices at Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services in South Kerryside. It found children had been prescribed inappropriate medication with 46 of them being harmed significantly as a result. Breed Smith, sorry, Breed Corrin, I beg your pardon. Breed Corrin, my apologies. I think she's a minister or was. Is she a politician? Yeah, I believe so. She is. I'll tell you what, I was listening to the, Paul Reed this morning with the HSE responding to this. I don't know if you heard the interview. I did, I did. As soon as the conversation gets to whether a service is safe and accountability, the same old lines are wheeled out. You know, no harm to it. It's just like I'm thinking this person's the top person in this organization. Earning how much? Well, 300 or 400,000 euro. 492,000. Oh, my apologies. But as soon as we try and get to the nitty gritties, it's just like, I'll say anything but answer the question. Yeah. Do you know where the Secretary General of the Department of Health and the Minister for Health are today? They're in Dubai on a health and wellness expo for a couple of days. Now, I don't know about the rest of the panel, but certainly a trip to Dubai would help my health and wellness during the dark months of January. But the message that that's sending out is absolutely horrific. We have a major crisis in psychiatric and psychological services in this country. This is not about one doctor. This is about governance and oversight. It's about a failure to invest in mental health services in this country. I was really cross, and I agree with Leonard. I was really cross when I listened to Leo Radker yesterday because Leo would have its spun that this was one doctor who concerns were raised about him. We're going to have the Maskey report and that's going to sort everything. And we're going to paper over the cracks and everything's going to be fine. It's not going to be fine unless we significantly invest in governance and oversight in mental health services in this country. Unfortunately, Leonard's experience with his lovely seven-year-old is going to be repeated in any family who needs to approach these services and look for help. We need significant investment and we've had years of failure to invest. And Paul Reed really crossed again with him this morning coming out. You know, it's so easy to say I'm sorry, but it's much harder to do actually something about it. And meanwhile, our minister and the secretary general who's on a huge salary are in Dubai. They need to be at their desks and they need to be doing something about this. Would it be realistically, would it be a realistic expectation given that this report is only in one comms area and given the extent to the problem? Is it realistic to say that they should have said given the news that's broken this week, we're actually going to cancel that trip and focus on sort of the situation? It's all about optics. Okay, but is that on real expectation or should they have done that? Do you think? They should have done that. This is far too serious, you know, and your experience of people calling in and saying, I'm working in the Galway-Riskaman area. I've had exactly the same issues been raised with me in the last couple of days with regards to camps in the area that I'm working in. And it's too easy for Lee over at her to say, oh, these families will get compensation. Compensation wouldn't pay you for the trauma and the difficulty that these children and their families are going through. Can I ask you a question about the compensation because listening to interviews there's an awful lot of focus on that as well. Do you think the media actually should be focusing more rather than those specific cases which are important and compensation and will the HSE defend cases? Actually talk about, hold on, yeah. That's potentially the tip of the iceberg. We'll talk about that element of it down the road, but let's focus on what's happening right around the country right now whilst the topic is hot. Compensation is not the answer to this. We shouldn't be making these mistakes in the first place. Compensation wouldn't pay Leonard in relation to what he's going through. There's no, you can't put a price on your child's health and happiness and wellbeing. This is about governance and oversight. This doctor was practicing for two years before a whistleblower came forward and said that he's diagnosing too quickly. He's over relying on medication. This should have been caught within the first six months of an issue with this particular doctor. It's governance, oversight, it's investment. We're only at the tip of the iceberg. I'm seeing particularly in my work an awful lot of young people after the pandemic struggling with mental health issues, particularly that young generation, the 14 to 22, 23-year-old. I'm seeing an awful lot of issues coming up in the criminal courts. That's only the tip of the iceberg. That's just one solicitor in one area. We need to talk about mental health. We need to talk about investing in mental health. We need to talk about resourcing our doctors. We need to talk about governing and providing oversight in relation to it wasn't just one doctor, and Leo Radker was wrong to say that it was one doctor, and he was wrong to say they'll get compensation. That's of no consequence to these parents who are struggling. Yeah. Amy McGee, what's happening in this case feels very similar to me as to the conversations surrounding the Brandon report, which explored sexual abuse of intellectually disabled residents as a Donegal facility. Again, absolutely horrendous. But again, as soon as we start trying to talk about accountability, are people who made decisions or who had oversight, are they still in those positions? All of a sudden it becomes very, very wishy-washy seemingly within the HSE that if you want to try and weed out who may or may not be responsible, every excuse in the book is given rather than saying, yes, we've taken this action, and it's not going to happen again with the same people involved. Yeah, it's that word, Greg, accountability. I think, you know, it's it's nearly we don't do it.